--------
From: JIM COWAN
To: JASON LEVINE
Sub: Jesse Lies For His Gods
Date: 23 Jun 94 17:22:41
--------
EID:E159 F4D78AC0
-> Makes sense, especially considering that Christmas is NOT Jesus's Bda
-> It was a pagan holiday that the Christians "appropriated" as their ow
-> Jesus was born some time in the summer, I believe.
Yes....Merry Saturnalia....
The part about Jesus being born in the summer is a real jump. The actual
existance of the historical Jesus can only be supported through third
party references.....his date of birth is an educated guess at best. (at
the very best)
--- GOMail v1.2 [DEMO] 06-26-94
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From: Rick Chadderdon
To: Mike Ruskai
Sub: re: Introduction...
Date: 04 Jul 94 11:35:44
--------
EID:8981 1ce45c60
MSGID: 1:209/254.7@FidoNet 41c8b8ec
REPLY: 1:107/634 5c14dfb9
Mike,
On friday, July 1 '94 at around 20:06:50 you said to me about 're: Introductio
n...':
MR> Some senseless babbling from Rick Chadderdon to Mike Ruskai on 07-01-94
MR> 13:10 RC> Mike,
MR>
MR> RC> On monday, June 27 '94 at around 17:35:03 you said to me about
're:
MR> RC> Introduction...':
MR>
MR> MR> Some senseless babbling from Rick Chadderdon to Mike Ruskai on
MR> MR> 06-27-94 14:51 RC> At 23:56:00 on June 23 '94, Mike Ruskai said
to
MR> MR> All:
MR> MR>
MR> MR> RC> Here's a "universal skeptic."
MR> MR>
MR> MR> RC> Got to have some basic axioms to start with, though. What're
MR> MR> RC> yours?
MR> MR>
MR> MR> The closest thing to that I have is that everything on this planet
i
s
MR> MR> equal in importance, and hurting something is wrong. Though that
MR> MR> bends considerably (i.e. someone brutally murdering Adolf Hitler
is
MR> MR> absolutely condonable, and recommendable).
MR>
MR> RC> Do you bend it for food, as well? :)
MR>
MR> RC> I've been an on and off vegetarian for years...
MR>
MR> To eat, something has to die. I don't mind eating a dead pig or cow,
I
MR> just don't like how they are treated while alive. Same with egg chickens
.
MR> Most vegetarians I know are so because of the treatment of the animals,
MR> not because it is healthier (it isn't), or they don't like eating anythin
g
MR> that was killed (at which point I would point out that plants are alive,
MR> too).
Yeah, but it's a lot harder to anthropomorphize a plant. :)
MR> So, if I am ever rich, I'll start a network of farms that treat the
MR> animals right before killing them right (not hanging them upside down
MR> while slitting their throats and then beginning to skin them with them
MR> still possibly being alive).
Good idea.
Actually, I would say that my basic belief structure is:
No human behavior is unacceptable unless said behavior unnecessarily harms
or
attempts to control another being incapable of informed consent.
Pretty liberal, I know. :)
The word that gives it it's flexibilty is, of course, "unnecessarily."
hehe... It opens up *worlds* of room for interpretation.
Rick
--- April V1.0 unreg
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From: Shadow Warrior
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: athiest or not?
Date: 30 Jun 94 23:47:00
--------
EID:3a29 1cdebde0
PID: ProBoard 2.01 rHu
CB> TB> overdiligence of the atheist is the lawsuit to get "In God We
CB> TB> Trust" off U.S. currency. Sure, having an inscription which endorses
CB> then, too, these same occultists [fundi, etc.] like to use the monetary
If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that atheists and occultists¨
a
re the same. I certainly hope I am reading this incorrectly. Those that
you¨
would call "occultists" (Thelemites, Druids, Wiccans) are definitely NOT¨
ath
eistic in their beliefs.
CB> inscriptions as 'proof' that this is a 'Christian' nation. the U.S.
This is definitely a "christian" nation. I can sympathize with those that¨
wo
uld like "In God We Trust" removed from the currency. Although my¨ conviction
s regarding the constitional gaurantee of seperation of church and¨ state
do n
ot run that deep, I can certainly see from where they are coming. m¨ If
the mo
tto was equally offensive to you as it is to them I am sure some of¨ the
same
people would be protesting it that are against the change now.
Chuk Chapman
>here you go moderator...my name!
--- FMail 0.96ā
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From: Shadow Warrior
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: Blue Laws
Date: 30 Jun 94 23:54:01
--------
EID:32fb 1cdebec0
PID: ProBoard 2.01 rHu
On <25 Jun, 17:11>, Christopher Baker wrote to Henry Mcgrattan :
CB> we still have what we call 'blue laws' in many locales but i don't know
CB> of any force to be closed on Sundays.
Yes it is still very much illegal to buy the EVIL ALCOHOL on the day of
the¨ l
ord in South Carolina. One of my favorite things to do when I am visiting
is¨
order a beer at the local pub on Sunday and then get into a philysophical¨
di
scussion on why I can't have beer on the day HE, the manager, worships god.
All the while just to show someone how ridiculous the law is. (Just doing
my¨
part to try to make this free country free)
Chuk Chapman
--- FMail 0.96ā
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From: Shadow Warrior
To: Ian Hebert
Sub: Moment of Silence
Date: 01 Jul 94 00:06:02
--------
EID:f55b 1ce100c0
PID: ProBoard 2.01 rHu
On <20 Jun, 14:16>, Ian Hebert wrote to Larry Burton :
IH> I am opposed to a moment of prayer during the school day, or its'
IH> alternative these days, a moment of silence; I am not opposed to a
IH> particular child's taking a moment or two for a silent prayer.
I almost agreed with you here. I was OK until I read this part. I fully¨
sup
port the schools ALLOWING time for "moment of silence". Believe me when
I¨ sa
y I am not christian. I almost went thorugh the roof when my daughter told¨
m
e her teacher took part of her recess because she didn't "ask the blessing".¨
(I am glad it turned out to be a isunderstanding, it could have gotten real¨
m
essy real quick!)
I do support "a moment of silence". I believe you would too, if that moment¨
of silence is allowed and not religiously conotated.
No one, not even an atheist :), has ever been hurt by a moment to relax
and¨ g
et ones mind refocused.
Chuk Chapman
--- FMail 0.96ā
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--------
From: Sean Mann
To: David Macdonald
Sub: Re: Athiests Kill Too
Date: 04 Jul 94 01:08:00
--------
EID:c530 1ce40900
MSGID: 1:260/825 86D52E03
-=> Quoting David Macdonald to Sean Mann <=-
DM> Re: Re: Athiests Kill Too
DM> Sean Mann,
DM> I am not at all sure you are atheist; you sound like an
DM> anti-theist instead, one who not so much does not think there is a god
DM> but rather one who dislikes god(s). I would not insist on this,
DM> though: just a thought.
David,
I am an athiest, I don't believe there is any supreme being
whatsoever, but I do belive that the Bible is a good guidlines to leading
a
good life. I don't like reliegions, they have made me weak, therefore I
ransack them, and I'm just starting to recover and am progressing in making
a new life for myself without religion.
Its hard to understand you see. I was quite the Christian for most
of my life, then I broke away from Christianity and started believing in
other religions, which made me even weaker. And after I sobered up and
realized that all of the religions I tried all worked for sometime. Then
I
became a polytheist. I relized that that was way out of proportion and I
decided to see that there was no god, there were no devils or demons, no
heaven, no hell, just the mind and the body.
Now I hate all religion and am becoming stronger in mind and in body
every minute of every hour. My mind is not like it was, confused and derranged
,
but perfectly organized, strengthened and powerful, cleansed. I also believe
that psychokinesis can explain alot of things that man hasn't been able
to
explain yet.
share your veiws with me.
Later,
SM
... I kill myself for you ... I kill you for myself
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
--- WM v3.10/94-0186
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From: Sean Mann
To: Ian Hebert
Sub: Re: HEY
Date: 04 Jul 94 01:11:00
--------
EID:ae0b 1ce40960
MSGID: 1:260/825 86D52E04
Yeah, they've told me not to respond to him, he's on permanent medication.
SEan
... War for Territory
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
--- WM v3.10/94-0186
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From: Sean Mann
To: Henry Mcgrattan
Sub: Re: Athiests Kill Too
Date: 04 Jul 94 01:14:00
--------
EID:c7a2 1ce409c0
MSGID: 1:260/825 86D52E05
Henry,
Thank you for showing me that point of view, I never looked at it
that way.
I now realize that it's not the worshipers I hate, it's simply the
information they were fed. Thanx alot, man.
Naph
... Danger Will Robinson!!! Danger!!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
--- WM v3.10/94-0186
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--------
From: Greg Mcdaniel
To: Jeff Vineburg
Sub: the love of God
Date: 03 Jul 94 22:31:54
--------
EID:e412 1ce3b3e0
MSGID: 1:3670/1 86D514BD
John 3:16
For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that
whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
--- WM v3.10/92-0484
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--------
From: Greg Mcdaniel
To: Jennie Hazen
Sub: Atheism - the big lie?
Date: 03 Jul 94 22:46:30
--------
EID:9948 1ce3b5c0
MSGID: 1:3670/1 86D514BE
You shouldn't believe the theory of evolution.
John 3:16
For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that
whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 corinthians 8:6
But to us there IS BUT ONE GOD ,THE FATHER........
genesis 1:1
In the begining GOD created the heavens and the earth.
Your church of christ friend,
Greg
P.S. I urge you to try reading the King James version. It would do you a
world of good.
--- WM v3.10/92-0484
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From: Greg Mcdaniel
To: Tom Kunesh
Sub: what is this ?
Date: 03 Jul 94 22:48:45
--------
EID:260f 1ce3b600
MSGID: 1:3670/1 86D514BF
I am glad someone is a christian and believes the Bible
--- WM v3.10/92-0484
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From: tom kunesh
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: Re: alt.atheism FAQs (1 of 8)
Date: 30 Jun 94 22:41:09
--------
EID:a130 1cdeb520
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA38FA85
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
TK> THE ALT.ATHEISM FAQ WEB
JL> Thanx for posting this...but I wish you had broken it down into
JL> smaller sections. FIDO stuff is truncated to 200 lines (in our area,
CB> if he will make it available as a file requestable from his Bossnode
CB> [1:362/122], i will be happy to go after it and make it available here
CB> for download or file-request.
good deal. i'm uploading it - ATHEISM.FAQ - to 1:362/122 with this
session, and will repost your msg to /122 for him to make it freqable.
thanks.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: John Jancewicz
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: Seperation of Church & State
Date: 01 Jul 94 23:37:00
--------
EID:6051 1ce1bca0
MSGID: 1:362/970.2 2e14aadc
REPLY: 1:374/14 2E1385A9
TID: FastEcho 1.40 UNREG
30 Jun 94 22:55, Christopher Baker wrote to John Jancewicz:
CB> first thing you need to do is re-read the U.S. Constitution. the
CB> 1st Amendment is where the establishment clause is located.
I have been reading too many gun debates. :)
CB> the U.S. Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what the
CB> Constitution means. that's as close to 'gospel' as you're going
CB> to get in 'interpretation' of the document.
So if regan/bush stacked the court as they planned,
thier word would be gospel to you?
CB> there is not a single reference to any deity in the U.S.
CB> Constitution and two prohibitions against getting involved with
CB> religion at the government level. that sums up how the document
CB> stands.
Yes. The document does not stand on this matter, we rely
on subjective intrepretations of it. . . most of which
were unused until the earlier part of this century.
JJ>> Were they for the absoulte non-involvement of any theology
JJ>> into the public legislative arena?
CB> yep. check the docs. also see Internal Revenue codes for tax
CB> exemption of religions. one specific prohibition is the use of
CB> tax exempt status to further a political operation.
Religions are political? :)
JJ>> . . .Anyway this might spark a discussion that is actually on
JJ>> topic, and derogatoy to either side of the debate.
CB> not really. this is very old news here. we're more concerned with
CB> contemporary activities.
This is not contempory? Issues concerning the intrepretation
of our Constition are a ongoing and contempory occurence.
CB> the Constitution exists as it is now
CB> and the USSC has consistently ruled that state and church must be
CB> separated as intended.
CB> you might want to take this tired thread
CB> to HOLYSMOKE Echo where you'll be soundly engaged. [grin]
Are you paid for your referals to Holysmoke?
:)
--- GoldED/P32 2.42.G1219
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: Jason Levine
Sub: We're Watching TV
Date: 02 Jul 94 18:36:00
--------
EID:d213 1ce29480
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B6410
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
JH> Well, in a nutshell, an aethiest does not believe in a omnipotent
JH> being kno to some cultures as "God".
JL> Then, by your definition, Buddhists are athiests. Confucists are
JL> atheists. Hindu are atheists. Recheck your definition. Atheists don't
JL> have beliefs in gods, period. It is not limited to the single deity
JL> found in monotheistic religions, nor is it limited to "gods". It isn't
JL> limited to any kinds of religions, because it's NOT an ACTIVE
JL> disbelief! It's a LACK of belief. Big difference.
buddhists -are- atheists. confucianists are atheists. charwakan hindus are
ath
eists. jains are atheists. daoists are atheists. no need to recheck JH's
defin
ition at all - it fits -some atheists. ... and there -are- also atheists
who d
o their thing with -active- disbelief - they're atheists, too.
why try to make -all- atheists conform to one definition?
it's like trying to create a definition for all Catholics or all Democrats
- n
o one definition will quite fit all, and there -needs- to be room for -inclusi
on-, not the narrowness of exclusion.
JH> Well, who says that aethiesm isn't a "religion"? A religion simply
JH> means a belief, a mode of thought. Science is a religion...
JL> Um....no. Again, recheck your definitions. Science, while some may
JL> pursue its calling avidly (even fanatically), is NOT a religion.
for some, science -is- a religion. science for some people is a complete
world
view (a la Ninian Smart) that promotes a complete materialist rationalistic
ap
proach to human living and meaning.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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From: tom kunesh
To: Jeff Vineburg
Sub: nonsense again - you said it
Date: 02 Jul 94 18:41:21
--------
EID:ddf1 1ce29520
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B6551
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
JV> At a NJ vo-tech school, a moment of silence was observed at graduation.
JV> Initially they had asked for a moment of prayer, but the school board
JV> said no. Then they asked for a moment of silence, but the board again
JV> turned them down.
JV> So the natural thing to do was for the speech-giver to ask for a
JV> moment of silence in her speech and bowed her head.
JV> The school board will be polling its members to see if retribution is
JV> indicated. The holier-than-us religious will stop at nothing.
personally, i like moments of silence. in fact, i'd prefer whole -minutes-
and
even an hour of silence. silence is non-denominational and may even help
clea
r people's heads to help them think. silence is no more "holy" than noise,
and
i think it would be great if -more- atheists would themselves promote "minute
s of silence".
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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From: tom kunesh
To: Henry Mcgrattan
Sub: moral development (was sa
Date: 02 Jul 94 18:44:59
--------
EID:d3a3 1ce29580
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B662B
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
HM> I agree that Freud is dated. Of course so is Socrates, and Darwin,
HM> and a lot of others. However, those who carry on in his tradtions have
HM> some great ideas--particularly the developmental object relations
HM> theorists. They talk about development, moral and othewise, and refine
HM> Freud's literal oral, anal, etc.
HM> And never do they push god as a factor in personal or moral
HM> development. So they follow Freud in this respect at all.
HM> On the other hand I've never seen a better defense of atheism and
HM> explanation for goddism than Freud's _Future of an Illusion_.
personally, i don't think there's -one- best defense or explanation of atheism
- i like 'em all - Nietzsche, Feuerbach, Marx, Freud, Durkheim, et al.
but Freud's _Future of an Illusion_ -is- a doozie, and should be required
read
ing for all atheist neophytes.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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From: tom kunesh
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: the Echo god
Date: 02 Jul 94 21:53:44
--------
EID:c37f 1ce2aea0
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B9268
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
CB> otherwise, this is your final warning to stay on-topic. your Bossnode
CB> will also receive a copy of this msg. it's your choice. stay and
CB> contribute or get lost. thanks.
TK> i -do- contribute, about atheism and being atheist, and probably more
TK> than 90% of the people here, and all of it relevant and pertinent to
TK> living atheism.
CB> your digressions do nothing for the Echo but amplify the noise level.
i'd like to test that opinion here by public vote.
personally, i doubt that you'd be sustained.
TK> i -will- stay and contribute, as per your request, subject only to the
TK> narrowness or broadness of your subjective interpretation of what
TK> atheism is and isn't. kick me off if you like - that's your
TK> prerogative and really of no import to me.
CB> what atheism 'is' for the sake of the Echo Guidelines has been clearly
CB> defined in terms of the Echo. take it or leave it.
a false binary choice. i both reject its truth -and- stay here.
atheism is -not- what you say it is, regardless of your position of authority
here. but ... since you're God here, you can, of course, make sure that
everyb
ody plays -your- way.
TK> if you -do- decide to ban me, and it is -your- choice, of course, all
TK> you need do is tell me, at this level of my attention, and i will cut
TK> the feed myself. pure and simple. it's actually been expected, and
TK> prepared for.
CB> no. the choice is yours as it has been since the first time i
CB> instructed you to take your Marx and Hegel arguments elsewhere. it's
CB> up to you completely whether you stay or leave. if, as you say, it is
CB> of 'no import' to you, then check out.
no. the choice to banish me or not banish me is -yours-. i will continue
to re
ad and write about atheism in all of its historical and multi-cultural context
s, and discuss atheist writers not-approved-by-the-American-Atheist-Church-Inc
., and about a/theist religious development. Karl Marx was a good atheist.
i t
hink it ludicrous to ban discussion of him or his atheist development and
writ
ings simply because he's called a philosopher. same with Ayn Rand and Sigmund
Freud and Ingersoll and Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson. ... but we atheists
are not to mention them?! ha!!
TK> good luck in your decision-making.
CB> it's your choice. if you don't like the subject matter here,
i -love- the subject matter here ... atheism and being a_theist.
i disagree with your narrow interpretation of it (separation of church &
state
issues) and your arbitrary application of the so-called rules.
CB> why don't you start your own atheist Echo and make it wide open to
CB> anything you feel appropriate. a Sysop out in Texas did so. i never
CB> heard about his Echo again. he may still be out there. check the ELIST
CB> for ATHEIST without the '_'.
if push comes to shove, i may.
nice of you to point out the mortality rate of such ventures. ;)
then again, Usenet's alt.atheism is probably more my inclination.
CB> if you stay, stay on-topic as defined in the Guidelines.
CB> it's completely up to you.
no, Chris, it's not -completely- up to me.
-you- have made the sacred Guidelines. you can -change- the sacred Guidelines.
you interpret the Guidelines. and you decide the application of the Guidelines
.
legislator, judge and jury of the Guidelines all in one. - an excellent
exampl
e of the power of god. and heck, i'm just a little atheist who doesn't believe
in that kind of god-like power. ;)
i can either abide by the rules or i can ignore them.
in this case, since i believe myself to be on-topic and discussing atheism
and atheists, and since i believe your rules to be self-serving and overly
res
trictive on a national Fido echo, i will ignore them.
you are now the judge and the jury, and i am the accused.
i, the accused, say that you, the judge, have unjust Guidelines
and unjust application of those Guidelines.
in these United States, according to the Fully-Informed Jury people,
the jury also has the right to throw out the very Guidelines itself as unjust.
i have made my plea for broader understanding and unjust Guidelines in this
ec
ho.
i want to stay, and if i were to stay, i'd continue writing about all atheist
topics under the sun, not only "separation of Church & State" issues, but
excl
uding the HolySmoke theist bashing.
i now rest my defense.
now the decision goes to you.
it's completely up to you to decide whether i stay
or am no longer allowed here.
thanks.
;>
-tpk
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: Jason Levine
Sub: Re: Re: Simpler Biology
Date: 02 Jul 94 22:03:22
--------
EID:0f92 1ce2b060
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B94AA
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
JL> Is that an official religion, though?
CB> there is no such thing as an 'official religion' in the U.S.A.
CB> anything that claims to be a religion, is a religion in this country.
CB> the government may not determine what constitutes a religion.
JL> Waitasec...I've heard stuff like "Scientology is a
JL> government-recognized religion" several times.
JL> Doesn't it mean anything for the govt to recognize you?
contrary to CB's claim, the U.S. government -does- determine what constitutes
a religion in this country. (sorry, Chris.)
non-profit religious status is a gov't determination, and is not given out
to
just anybody or anything. there -are- restrictions on what constitutes a
relig
ion - especially as pertains to finances, taxes and fraud.
the U.S. government also determined that polygamy was not a proper constitutiv
e element of Mormon religion, so the Mormon Church officially changed its
reli
gion to mirror the State's request.
the U.S. government also determined that Native American religion was not
a pr
oper religion and banned Native American religious ceremonies up til the
1978
American Indian Religious Freedom Act.
the U.S. government also determines if drug use or animal sacrifice constitute
religions.
so, whereas what Chris says is, in principle, correct, ie, that
"the government may not determine what constitutes a religion"
-is- openly mouthed about, it is not true in the real world.
and Scientology is gov't-recognized only inasmuch as they are recognized
by th
e State as a non-profit religious organization like any other real or bogus
re
ligious organization.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: the Echo god
Date: 02 Jul 94 22:11:48
--------
EID:c37f 1ce2b160
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B96A4
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
CB> your digressions do nothing for the Echo but amplify the noise level.
CB> if you want to philosophize, do it in PHIL.
CB> what atheism 'is' for the sake of the Echo Guidelines has
CB> been clearly defined in terms of the Echo. take it or leave it.
CB> no. the choice is yours as it has been since the first time i
CB> instructed you to take your Marx and Hegel arguments elsewhere.
CB> it's up to you completely whether you stay or leave.
CB> it's your choice.
CB> if you stay, stay on-topic as defined in the Guidelines.
CB> it's completely up to you.
to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, a leading proponent
of the separation of Church and State, ;)
"...difference of opinion is advantageous in atheism. The several sects
perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity
attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the
introduction of atheism, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned;
yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the
effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
hey - why don't we put my continued presence here to a vote?!
i will most assuredly abide by the outcome of such a referendum.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: John Jancewicz
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Seperation of Church & State
Date: 03 Jul 94 00:39:00
--------
EID:9f60 1ce304e0
MSGID: 1:362/970.2 2e160a7f
TID: FastEcho 1.40 UNREG
01 Jul 94 11:22, Steve Quarrella wrote to John Jancewicz:
SQ> 29 Jun 94, dixo John Jancewicz a All:
SQ> Umm...you're the second person to come into the echo within the
SQ> month claiming that the Second Amendment had anything to do with
SQ> church and state. From what tract are you guys taking this
SQ> information?
I didn't see the other post. . . Also I was discouraged
from debating the subject by the moderator. I thought
seperation issues were "on" topic. I really don't
like the other echos such as HOLYSMOKE, or even
HOLYBIBLE. . .
I like your posts, but I can't think of a suitable echo
to discuss matters.
JJ>> What did the founding father think of theology when
JJ>> concerning the state and initiating sound legislation?
SQ> Here's some quotes right back at you, as out of context as yours
SQ> were. This "white" will complement your "black" just nicely:
SQ> "...difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The
SQ> several sects perform the office of a common censor over each
SQ> other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men,
SQ> women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have
SQ> been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced
SQ> an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of
SQ> coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other
SQ> half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the
SQ> earth."
SQ> [Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia"]
Thanks for the good quotes.
Talk the moderator into allowing the discussion and
I'm game. :)
--- GoldED/P32 2.42.G1219
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--------
From: John Jancewicz
To: tom kunesh
Sub: the Echo god
Date: 03 Jul 94 00:47:00
--------
EID:904c 1ce305e0
MSGID: 1:362/970.2 2e160b27
REPLY: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3B96A4
TID: FastEcho 1.40 UNREG
02 Jul 94 22:11, tom kunesh wrote to Christopher Baker:
tk> to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, a leading proponent
tk> of the separation of Church and State, ;)
tk> "...difference of opinion is advantageous in atheism. The several
tk> sects perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is
tk> uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and
tk> children, since the introduction of atheism, have been burnt,
tk> tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch
tk> towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make
tk> one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To
tk> support roguery and error all over the earth."
This same quote twice in one day? :)
tk> hey - why don't we put my continued presence here to a vote?!
tk> i will most assuredly abide by the outcome of such a referendum.
What if they vote to burn you for your beliefs?
Conform or be cast out.
--- GoldED/P32 2.42.G1219
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: Chris Lee
Sub: You definition
Date: 03 Jul 94 16:41:42
--------
EID:cf9b 1ce38520
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3C9AC6
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
CL> weak atheist and strong atheist?
CL> people come up with everything to put a name to it don't they,
it's a pretty broad category with millions of people who all share the one
nam
e, but have quite different thoughts about its origin, purposes, and history.
CL> isn't atheist someone who doesn't believe in god?
that's one way of putting it ... ;)
CL> and by not believing in god, consequently it
CL> also means that there is no god, does it not?
there are quite a few Americans who don't believe in President Clinton,
but such disbelief does not mean that there is no President Clinton.
more examples? -not- believing that the world was round, or that the earth
cir
cled the sun, did not and does not consequently also mean that the world
is fl
at or that sun circled the earth.
then again, belief -can- affect individuals' and groups' realities.
but there is no causal relationship.
CL> so how can there be a distinction,
guess.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: John Jancewicz
Sub: Seperation of Church & State
Date: 03 Jul 94 16:47:25
--------
EID:94c0 1ce385e0
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3C9C1D
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
JJ> Thanks for the good quotes.
JJ>
JJ> Talk the moderator into allowing the discussion and I'm game. :)
boy, you sound familiar. haven't i met you somewhere before?
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: John Jancewicz
Sub: the Echo god
Date: 03 Jul 94 16:52:54
--------
EID:41ee 1ce38680
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3C9D66
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
tk> to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, a leading proponent of the separation
tk> of Church and State, ;)
tk> "...difference of opinion is advantageous in atheism. The several sects
tk> perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity
tk> attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the
tk> introduction of atheism, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned;
tk> yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the
tk> effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other
tk> half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
JJ> This same quote twice in one day? :)
huh? ;)
tk> hey - why don't we put my continued presence here to a vote?!
tk> i will most assuredly abide by the outcome of such a referendum.
JJ> What if they vote to burn you for your beliefs?
JJ> Conform or be cast out.
sounds biblical -- eeek!
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: tom kunesh
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: Simpler Gov't
Date: 03 Jul 94 16:57:57
--------
EID:abcb 1ce38720
MSGID: 1:362/122.29@fidonet AA3C9E95
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3 Serial #000372
from the Industrial Religion Garage ...
JL> Waitasec...I've heard stuff like "Scientology is a government-
JL> recognized religion" several times. Doesn't it mean anything for the
JL> govt to recognize you?
CB> that was an I.R.S. case where Scientology had to prove they met the
CB> tests for religious exemption from taxation under I.R.S. standards.
CB> the I.R.S. is not the government. it is merely a taxing tool.
the IRS is not the -entire- government, but it is an -integral part- of
the U.
S.A. government every bit as much as the U.S. Treasury or U.S. Army.
standards for tax exemption based on religious grounds are discussed and
passe
d by the U.S. government. in effect, religious tax exemption is based on
stand
ards approved by the U.S. government.
;>
--- MacWoof 1.5.3
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--------
From: Mike Ruskai
To: Chris Lee
Sub: Re: Introduction...
Date: 04 Jul 94 17:56:56
--------
EID:0827 1ce48f00
MSGID: 1:107/634 5d11f63d
Some senseless babbling from Chris Lee to Mike Ruskai on 07-03-94 18:15...
CL> although i don't make a religion out of science, i wouldn't say i was
CL> a skeptic, by the way, what the heck is gregarious?
You don't like Webster? :) A gregarious person is one who fits well into
group settings. Someone who hangs out with everyone. As opposed to a
loner.
´Mike Ruskai ³ FidoNet(1:107/634) ³ RGSNet(50:130/12) ³ OS/2Net(81:135/30)Ć
´{Team OS/2} ³ ITCnet(85:862/207) ³ TerraNet(87:908/100)
Ć
... Puritanism is the fear that someone, somewhere might be having fun.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 OS/2
--- RG 5-31 Exp/GE 1.02+
* Origin: The Licking Factory, OS/2 in NJ! (908)636-7245 (1:107/634)
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--------
From: The Mad Doctor
To: Ron Buttenham
Sub: RE: P&G Pres on Donahue??
Date: 27 Jun 94 17:07:00
--------
EID:f8ee 1cdb88e0
Via SLMAIL v3.5B (#1508)
>A while back, the minister of Anglican church that my mother attends
>handed out a brochure titled "Procter & Gamble". It makes the following
>claim... I will quote it verbatum.
>
>"The president of Proctor & Gamble appeared on the Phil Donahue show
>on March 1, 1993. He announced that due to the openness of our society,
>he was coming out of the closet about his association with the CHURCH
>OF SATAN. He states that a large portion of the profits from Proctor
>& Gamble oriducts goes to support the SATAN CHURCH. When asked by
>Donahue if stating this on television would hurt his business, he
>replied "THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH CHRISTIANS IN UNITED STATES TO MAKE A
>DIFFERENCE.""
>
>The brochure then lists a number of Proctor & Gamble products and askes
>that the members of the church to boycott Proctor & Gamble products.
>
>Can anyone tell me if the alleged incident on Donahue actually took
>place. I can recall for many years stories about how the P&G logo
>was supposed to be Satanic. Is this just urban legend taking on new
>life?
>
>I was rather amused by my mother reacting to this as strongly as she
>did. I told her that I thought it was nonsense but I would attempt
>to determine the truth of it.
>
>Anybody out there know??
>
It is completely, totally, one hundred percent false. I called the ¨Donahue
sh
ow personally, and they have *never* had the president of ¨P&G on their
show a
t all. If you want to confirm the runor yourself, ¨their number is 212-664-650
1. The lady I talked to implied that they ¨have been flooded with calls
about
it by immediately realizing what I ¨was calling about.
-----
Yakko: "I can see into the future!"
Dr. Scratchansniff: "Vhen did zees begin?"
Yakko: "Next Monday!" (from Animaniacs!)
* SearchLight QWK Version 1.00 * #1508 #Unregistered!#
--- SLMAIL v3.5B (#1508)
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--------
From: Henry Mcgrattan
To: Todd Rourke
Sub: National Day of Fear on M
Date: 04 Jul 94 16:41:11
--------
EID:e8de 1ce48520
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 7212a630
But A.S. LaVey isn't an atheist...
He is a whacko idiosyncratic fundamentalist.
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j'
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--------
From: Henry Mcgrattan
To: Thomas Arnold
Sub: Simpler Biology
Date: 04 Jul 94 16:49:11
--------
EID:00fd 1ce48620
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 7212a631
"how can a person be an ordained minister and not believe in a deity..."
Well, he can become a Univeral Life Church minister like we are--with
the ecclesiastical validity of a bubble gum card.
Or he can be like Jim and Tammy and Ernest Angely or Marjoe Gortner or a
host of others.
If we stamped out tax breaks for The Religion Industry we'd be doing
them a favour because it would wring out many of the atheists who are
scamming the true believers, god bless them (excuse the expression).
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j'
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--------
From: Ron Buttenham
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: OFF TO A BAD START & END
Date: 05 Jul 94 11:56:11
--------
EID:dad1 1ce55f00
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 72825919
CB>because it has nothing to do with separation issues or atheist info.
I disagree.
CB>it's Weekly World News bunk and doesn't belong here.
I related a personal experience not something out of a supermarket
tabloid and I resent you calling it bunk. I think that you should
learn some manners, you come across as an insenstive clod.
CB>RB> This was an attempt by the church to be politically active
CB>RB> and create a boycott of a business.
CB>
CB>see? you've just classified it and it meets neither of the above tests.
Puzzled look. I thought that it fit. Still do.
CB>you need to ask this in the Separation of Business and State Echo. this
CB>isn't it.
Your flippant throw away answer was likely meant to say separation of
Business and Church.
I find your attitude very disappointing.
CB>information, yes. old crack-pot reposts, no.
I am new to the echo. And once again resent the implication.
CB>RB> church in question if the allegations are indeed false? Could they
CB>RB> win in todays courts?
CB>
CB>that would best be asked in the LAW Echo.
A new puzzled look. You discuss separation issues but this doesn't include
the laws around the issues??
CB>the Guidelines were just reposted yesterday. by now, you must have seen
CB>them.
Must I have? Well I have not! I don't manage to read every message of
every
packet I down load, particularly when I get the first few packets with
800 messages each in them.
CB>the Guidelines are also off-topic except when addressed by the
CB>Moderator to a User.
CB>
CB>thanks.
CB>
CB>TTFN.
No TTFEver.
It has interested me over many years how some moderators moderate
and some power trip.
I don't need this first time in. And I guess you don't need me.
Given a chance I am sure that I would have had something to contribute.
I will drop this conference and not bother you any more.
Sorry that I wasted your time and inconvenienced you.
Ron
---
* KingQWK 1.00 * The will of God is the sanctuary of ignorance. - Spinoza
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j'
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--------
From: Christopher Baker
To: Chris Lee
Sub: Re: Teen athiests
Date: 04 Jul 94 17:41:24
--------
EID:505e 1ce48d20
MSGID: 1:374/14 2E188204
PID: GenMsg 4.14 [0002]
In a message dated: 01 Jul 94, Chris Lee was quoted as saying:
CL> so you believe that one's conscious is one's god, or one's spirit,
we don't do god[s], here.
please take this thread to Netmail or a different Echo.
thanks.
TTFN.
Chris
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbak.rights@opus.global.org)
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--------
From: Christopher Baker
To: Shadow Warrior
Sub: Re: athiest or not?
Date: 04 Jul 94 23:35:09
--------
EID:b11a 1ce4bc60
MSGID: 1:374/14 2E18D4ED
PID: GenMsg 4.14 [0002]
In a message dated: 30 Jun 94, Shadow Warrior was quoted as saying:
SW> If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that atheists and
SW> occultists are the same. I certainly hope I am reading this
i cannot imagine how you made such an extrapolation from my simple
statement.
SW> Those that you would call "occultists" (Thelemites, Druids, Wiccans)
SW> are definitely NOT atheistic in their beliefs.
what do you mean 'i would call'? i would call anyone who indulges in
religious 'mysteries' and occultist. that applies to all religions.
SW> This is definitely a "christian" nation. I can sympathize with
no, it is not. this is a secular nation. there may be a lot of
Christians in the country but the country, i.e., the government is
areligious.
SW> If the motto was equally offensive to you as it is to them I am
SW> sure some of the same people would be protesting it that are against
SW> the change now.
huh?
the 'motto' isn't 'offensive'. it's stupid. it doesn't belong there.
period.
TTFN.
Chris
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbak.rights@opus.global.org)
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--------
From: Christopher Baker
To: Shadow Warrior
Sub: Re: Blue Laws
Date: 04 Jul 94 23:36:22
--------
EID:9918 1ce4bc80
MSGID: 1:374/14 2E18D536
PID: GenMsg 4.14 [0002]
In a message dated: 30 Jun 94, Shadow Warrior was quoted as saying:
CB> we still have what we call 'blue laws' in many locales but i don't
CB> know of any force to be closed on Sundays.
SW> Yes it is still very much illegal to buy the EVIL ALCOHOL on the
SW> day of the lord in South Carolina. One of my favorite things to do
is it illegal for any types of stores to be open other than liquor
stores on Sunday around there?
TTFN.
Chris
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbak.rights@opus.global.org)
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From: Christopher Baker
To: Shadow Warrior
Sub: Re: Moment of Silence
Date: 04 Jul 94 23:39:00
--------
EID:e5a0 1ce4bce0
MSGID: 1:374/14 2E18D5D4
PID: GenMsg 4.14 [0002]
In a message dated: 01 Jul 94, Shadow Warrior was quoted as saying:
SW> No one, not even an atheist :), has ever been hurt by a moment to
SW> relax and get ones mind refocused.
that's not the purpose of the so-called 'moment of silence'. these are
merely excuses to get prayer back into the school. they are unnecessary
since any student can pray to themself all day long if they want to do
so.
if they used the 'moment of silence' for meditation, the fundies would
be all over them for encouraging 'new age religion'.
schools should be teaching not momenting.
TTFN.
Chris
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbak.rights@opus.global.org)
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From: Don Kemerling
To: Crystal Burton
Sub: Branson Mo
Date: 04 Jul 94 11:39:11
--------
EID:198b 1ce45ce0
MSGID: 1:280/35@fidonet.org 728300e4
CB>Hi everybody from Branson, Missouri, the buckle of the bible belt,
CB>ARGHHHHHH! I am just so sick and tired of the supposed "Christians"
CB>around here spouting their dogmatic bullshit while they are, in fact
CB>practicing the worst examples of bigotry I have ever seen in my life.
Hiya Crystal. Branson is in the middle of a beautiful area, and has
great lakes and streams all around, but I'm sure you're right as far as
the people go. Recently a friend of mine, who is from the area and is
an atheist also was told by his grandfather not to come around any
longer as long as he wasn't prepared to go to church with him. That's
"family values," you know.
Added to the hypocracy and hatred is now the greed and gouging
associated with all the new country music halls there. I have a bumper
sticker, that I bought back in the 70's, which says I love the area's
lakes. Norfolk is my favorite, because I can avoid the traffic and the
hype. It's less crowded too, so I don't have to talk to the people as
much. But I'd talk to you. I haven't even been down there in years. I
don't think you could drag me into Branson with a team of Clydesdales
now. dk
---
ž DeLuxeż/386 1.25 #6312 ž Church-an institutionalized absurdity
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From: David Macdonald
To: Thomas Arnold
Sub: Simpler Biology
Date: 04 Jul 94 17:48:59
--------
EID:b1d0 1ce48e00
MSGID: 1:232/310 100bbe96
PID: VFIDO 6.10.03
Re: Simpler Biology
Universal Life Church, 601 Third St., Modesto, CA 95351.
--- VFIDO 6.10.03
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From: David Macdonald
To: Chris Lee
Sub: You definition
Date: 04 Jul 94 17:49:00
--------
EID:649d 1ce48e20
MSGID: 1:232/310 10091e3c
PID: VFIDO 6.10.03
Re: You definition
The distinction between "strong" and "weak" atheism is widely recognized.
Strong is basically the vigorous assertion that there is no god; weak that
there is not sufficient evidence towarrent belief in the god hypothesis.
The
distinction may be subtle--and quite possibly people on this sub can offer
better distinctions than mine--but most of us find it a useful distinction
and meaningful for us.
--- VFIDO 6.10.03
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From: Jennie Hazen
To: Fredric Rice
Sub: Objectivism
Date: 05 Jul 94 12:45:52
--------
EID:636e 1ce565a0
MSGID: 1:2613/475 86D6B78E
-> The cult of Ayn Rand, actually. There was a good article delving int
-> history of objectivism in the Cal Poly publication out of Altadena, C
-> called "Skeptic Magazine." That it's a religion is undisputed. That
-> positive or negative in scope, however, is -- as always -- left up to
-> individual to decide. It couldn't be taught in the Public School sys
-> would bet.
I thought it was a philosophy, not a religion--no supernatural
beings, some attempt at rationality. Why is it classified as
a religion?
Thanks,
Jennie
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: John Jancewicz
Sub: Seperation of Church & State
Date: 05 Jul 94 09:13:42
--------
EID:24b0 1ce549a0
PID: SX4.02B02P DOPEFISH
3 Jul 94, dixo John Jancewicz a Steve Quarrella:
JJ> I didn't see the other post. . . Also I was discouraged
JJ> from debating the subject by the moderator. I thought
JJ> seperation issues were "on" topic. I really don't
JJ> like the other echos such as HOLYSMOKE, or even
JJ> HOLYBIBLE. . .
At least in HOLYSMOKE you can speak your mind. :-/
JJ> I like your posts, but I can't think of a suitable echo
JJ> to discuss matters.
It's called HOLYSMOKE.
... Stay tuned for "Christmas Of The Daleks!"
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B02P DOPEFISH
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Henry Mcgrattan
Sub: National Day of Fear on M
Date: 09 Jul 94 18:19:46
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 5f116dc6
REPLY: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 7212a630
PID: FM 2.02
> But A.S. LaVey isn't an atheist...
He doesn't believe in any deities.
> He is a whacko idiosyncratic fundamentalist.
<-heh-> That's even debatable. He doesn't try to pass hate laws.
---
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:102/890)
˙
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Jennie Hazen
Sub: Objectivism
Date: 09 Jul 94 18:31:39
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 5f116dc7
REPLY: 1:2613/475 86D6B78E
PID: FM 2.02
fr> The cult of Ayn Rand, actually.
I should add that the term 'cult' doesn't have to be derogatory. Since
there
is a great deal of virtue in the philosophy, I see it as something positive.
fr> There was a good article delving [into the] history of
fr> objectivism in the Cal Poly publication out of Altadena,
fr> [California] called "Skeptic Magazine." That it's a
fr> religion is undisputed.
jh> I thought it was a philosophy, not a religion--no supernatural
jh> beings, some attempt at rationality. Why is it classified as
jh> a religion?
Religion doesn't require a deity in its ideological constructs, though.
And, yes, the rationality and objectivism are positive attributes worth
strivi
ng for, yet the movement degraded into a weak charasmatic cult. The political
and sexual infighting among the inner circle of the movement was of mild
inte
rest to read about yet helped to set the stage concerning how far intellectual
ism among the founders actually spread in practice.
---
* Origin: No Special Rights for Christians! (1:102/890)
˙
--------
From: Tom Breuer
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: God on money
Date: 07 Jul 94 23:50:00
--------
EID:5c24 1ce7be40
MSGID: 1:139/575 5f0025af
CB> TB> On the contrary, the recent lawsuit to get "In God We
CB> Trust" off
CB> TB> currency generated a lot of response in the form of
CB> columns, letters
CB> TB> to the editor, editorial cartoons, etc. That's because it's
CB> one of
CB> TB> those hot button issues that's easy to form an opinion
CB> about.
CB>
CB> not around here. which recent lawsuit are you referring to and
CB> where?
I think it was filed in Denver and it was, if I recall, about three weeks
ago.
It was actually a very brief AP story, but it touched off a lot of controvers
y around here (that is, Green Bay and Appleton, Wis.). Of course, this is
a ve
ry conservative area when it comes to these sorts of things. And by "a lot
of
controversy" I don't mean as much as when the Packers make a major personnel
m
ove or something, but it was given more than cursory attention, and the
public
ity that was generated was of the "atheists are trying to persecute the
rest o
f us" variety. All I'm saying is that going to a lot of effort to get the
mott
o off the money is just a little anal retentive, and makes atheists look
silly
. Methinks there are better things to spend our resources on.
---
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From: Chris Lee
To: Jon Persky
Sub: Teen athiests
Date: 07 Jul 94 12:15:00
--------
EID:9324 1ce761e0
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:271/296.0 2e1d565b
JP> Basically, but where they and I draw the line is if one consciousness
JP> represents everybody or there is one for every person.
you mean, you think that there isn't one consciousness for everybody?
or do you think that one consciousness doesn't represent everybody?
JP> Generally, those who lose out in life are those who reject _their_
JP> "god", or inner personal spirit. If the god a person chooses to hold
JP> as their own is the one shaped by the Bible, so be it. But in
JP> classifying myself as athiest, I am simply rejecting the concepts of
JP> the Bible and monotheism. I reject their god. Not mine. I have a huge
JP> problem with the "One nation, under God" clause in the pledge of
JP> allegiance, because it implies their god - again, not mine, and not
JP> those of many others.
explain your god, what does your god do, and what is his capacity, tell
me
if he's eternal and if he promises you heaven and hell, i have trouble
grasping your concept of god, and your concept of atheism, how can one
reject _their_ "god" when it is only one's inner personal spirit? and what
do you mean by rejecting one's inner personal spirit?
JP> Granted, it's not the dictionary definition of god.. but it sort of
JP> applies. It's omnipotent within one's own being, not outside of it.
JP> To sum up, God is not a being, not a spirit, not a father, not a son.
JP> It is every person's system of beliefs and morals. And since
JP> everyone's system of beliefs and morals is different, every person's
JP> god is different as well.
so your idea of god is not god like anyone would think, but a symbolization
of one's thought? and how would you say that one's thought is omnipotent
within one's own being? please be more clear, i cannot quite understand
your concept of polytheism,
JP> It probably is best to use a different word.. but I have no idea what
JP> word that would be :)
yah, yah,
-PoeT '
... THIS IS A TAGLINE
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From: Crystal Burton
To: JIM COWAN
Sub: Re: What else?
Date: 08 Jul 94 12:01:00
--------
EID:9e6c 1ce86020
MSGID: 1:297/2 2E16A883
Thanks Jim, it's good to know I'm not alone in the darkness!!!
Hugs to ya.
Risa
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From: Jennie Hazen
To: Tom Kunesh
Sub: Simpler Gov't
Date: 08 Jul 94 11:05:46
--------
EID:a3f9 1ce858a0
MSGID: 1:2613/475 86D9B07D
-> i also just found about the "decisions" of the Internal Revenue Servi
-> in the '70s to deny tax exemptions to segregated Christian academies.
-> if this is true, it becomes another demonstration of the IRS as
-> enforcer of US national policy. and so much for the separation of
-> church and state.
Actually you could argue that this is an example of the separation of
church and state. The religious colleges were treated under laws
that applied to everyone, and not given special privileges. Of
course I think that churches should not be tax exempt anyway...
:)
Jennie
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From: Langston Goldfinch
To: All
Sub: Querry
Date: 08 Jul 94 11:57:54
--------
EID:8353 1ce85f20
MSGID: 1:396/17 2e1d3f8c
PID: GED386 G0615 1048
Hello All!
What is the common use meaning of:
Conservative
Liberal
Radical
I know the old meaning, wondering how these terms a functionally defined.
Also, would you consider the meanings different when used by different folks?
Regards
Langston
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From: Chris Ferree
To: Tom Kunesh
Sub: Re: alt.atheism FAQs (1 o
Date: 02 Jul 94 12:07:00
--------
EID:201a 1ce260e0
MSGID: 1:231/285 86D6741E
TK> depending upon how long i have left to live on this echo,
TK> i'll repost it if there are others with the same problem.
TK> if you're the only one, then how 'bout i upload it as one
TK> complete doc to our local power bbs - Chattanooga On-Line,
TK> and you can freq it there? their # is 615/ 267-1562.
TK> look for atheism FAQ in their file/docs area.
I pasted all of the posts together and saved them to disk, so if Chris
"Dirty Rat" Baker kicks you out, I'll still be able to post it...
sometime... :]
amicaliment,
csf
... Condom - an apartment complex.
* [ tag ] *
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From: James Ho
To: Christopher Baker
Sub: Re: We're Watching!
Date: 04 Jul 94 10:37:00
--------
EID:7646 1ce454a0
MSGID: 1:250/236 2D251F51
REPLY: 1:374/14 2E11C745
Once again, we see that Christopher Baker has chosen to discuss We're Watching
with James Ho. What has happened to our society?
CB> first, it's atheism if you're referring to one of the topics of this
CB> Echo. second, science is not a religion any more than atheism is a
CB> religion. if you want to conduct this particular line of conversation,
CB> please head over to HOLYSMOKE Echo where they debate religion. we
CB> don't do religions, here, except to the extent that any one may be
CB> intruding into government.
CB> here's the short form of the rules for your edification. the long form
CB> is published twice a month on the 1st and 15th.
Well, I'm fairly new here, so I guess I don't know all the rules. Second,
HOLYSMOKE is being deleted from our BBS, and in any case, my mail packets
are
too large (at 2400) to include it. In any case, I will try to curb my
instincts.
CB> specific off-topic subjects are: god[s], scriptures, personal attacks,
CB> and bashing for the sake of bashing. if it doesn't pertain to
CB> separation issues or atheist info, don't post it, here.
CB> off-topic posters receive 3 warnings in the Echo and/or Netmail. if
CB> they have not ceased to post off-topic traffic after those warnings,
CB> they are summarily disconnected from the Echo at all levels.
So I have had 1 warning? :-(
..James..
... A KGB keyboard has no