God Damned Fundies!

|From: AL SCHROEDER
|To:   DAN CEPPA
|Sub:  NO JESUS 2
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:22:00
EID:0265 2029a2c0
AS> It always kind of amused me that all these characters in STAR WARS
AS> had Biblical names, like Luke Skywalker. (For that matter, Superman's

DC> Not as badly as they used them in "Battlestar Gallactica".  

Someone was mentioning that the Mormons had a lot of influence on the
scripts...

AS> family name was El, which Siegal and Shuster, as the Jewish youths
AS> they were, would have known meant "God").

DC> Thanks for noticing that.  I remember all of the xxx-El's, but 
DC> never made that connection.  

Of course, remember that the creator of Superman's last name is Siegal.
A recent revamp made Superman's grandfather named Seyg-El, as a sort of
tribute...(and "Krypton" really means "unknown"--the element was named
such because at first they weren't sure what it was...so it's not so hokey
a name for a planet as you might think. Certainly sounds niftier than
"Planet X" or something.)


AS> WIth reason. Their position was already precarious, chosen by an
AS> outsider like Herod, and the people knew it.

DC> Herod wasn't so much as an outsider but a pragmatist.  He knew 
DC> where his bread was buttered.  

And a ruler who is around during the early years of the Empire (as opposed
to the Republic) had to tread carefully. Augustus and Claudius were halfway
decent, but Tiberius, Caligula, Nero...not the best Emperors to work under
if you have a hankering to keep your head on your shoulders...

AS> Which is why he was judged guilty of blasphmey by the Sanhedrin and
AS> sedition against the crown by the Romans.

DC> Best guess, if any of the story is real, the Sanherin trial 
DC> failed utterly.  The political trial was a set up by the Sadducees 
DC> to preserve their power-base.  


I think there are certainly some suspicious aspects to it...the trial by
night, for the most part, and suspect that only a select group of the
Sanhedrin, those sympathetic with Caiphas who were summoned in time,
waiting for the trial. The others, those more sympathetic, didn't get
there until it was too late. I think Caiphas was determined to get rid of
this troublemaker, and was willing to bend the Law to do it. Joseph and
Nicodemus probably didn't get to participlate until He was already in
front of Pilate. The political trial was definitely a set up.

AS> But believing a man was God WAS blasphemy.

DC> Yet, Gamaliel defends their belief.  

He at least lets God do the deciding. In the typical Jewish fashion of
thinking God works through history (which is the way the history of the
Bible is viewed) he felt that either God would make such a belief prosper,
if it was real, or destroy it, if it was not.
How late did Gamaliel live, I wonder? Did he live to see it become a
somewhat influential cult?
(Checking a reference book). Hmmm. 18 years after the fall of Jerusalem
he lived. I wonder if he ever regretted his clemency?



... Jesus lefthanded? Sure! He was perfect, wasn't he?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 4.00F2
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  ATHIEST AGAINST ABORTION
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:02:02
EID:e5c6 2028b040
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 d1a5c70f
On (07 Jan 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Michael Hardy...

-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Dan Ceppa <=-

MH> Try searching in the Constitution for a reference that specifically
MH> guarantees the right to abortion.

JB> The case was decided under the right to privacy that the Constitution
JB> DOES guarantee, and the premise that what a woman and her doctor
JB> decide is covered under that right of privacy.


No, there is no right to privacy explicitly mentioned in the USC.
Actually, the SC went all the way out on a limb to the word
"penumbra" in order to justify the right to choose.  It was their
contention that privacy rested in the "penumbra" under which the
gov't could not search or seize your goods without due process,
which they did a stretch and defined as "privacy."

Roe v. Wade is an interesting case to read sometime.  Nowhere in
that case does the USSC mention a "right to privacy," because we
quite frankly are not guaranteed such a right explicitly under
the USSC.


... 23rd Rule of Creationism:  Claim superiority for Christian education.

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:08:14
EID:bebb 2028b100
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 00d5e235
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f0a7c3
On (07 Jan 96) Robert Jackson wrote to Dan Ceppa...

DC> I think that Raven is starting to get in the swing of things.
DC> Though he may have read some before he jumped in here, it
DC> looks like he is learning the frustration of dealing with
DC> the brain dead.

RJ>         I can't tell you how often, as I scan through the index
RJ>         for newbies, they turn out to be fundies as bad or worse
RJ>         than our standard crop--and I have to slump really low in
RJ>         my chair to read what's on my screen while peeking through
RJ>         my fingers.  It gets pretty damn irritating simply because
RJ>         they keep coming and coming and coming...there's really no
RJ>         bottom to the Idiot Well, is there?

Fundies don't come; they don't even allow themselves to breathe hard.


... Think hard now!  Which one is Shinola?`

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  subjection
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:19:19
EID:3008 2028b260
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 6f40f772
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 0f0447e5
On (07 Jan 96) Ryan Shaw wrote to Maria Russell...

RS> Maria Russell wrote in a message to Katherine Wintersnight:

MR> Oh Katherine, you are being so silly now. The husband is the
MR> final authority in the home.

RS> And you do this to yourself?

RS> I plan on finding a woman that is just as opinionated as I am when and
RS> if I marry.  We'll treat each other as _equals_.

MR> with slavery. If you recall (I know I have said it before), the
MR> Bible tells men to love their wives as themselves. No man

RS> If they did, they wouldn't have the `christian power trips' over them.

Ryan,

It really isn't that difficult, so long as you make up your mind to
do what you want to do, and allow your wife to do what she wants to
do.  I've never understood these couples that always do everything
together, like they were joined at the hip or something.  Where is
it written that just because my husband wants to go to a movie, I
have to want to go to one, too -- and the SAME one at that?  We do
things together when we want to, and do things separately when it
suits us.  For us, it is still working after nearly 32 years.


... "Here, fundy, fundy, fundy. Nice fundy...***<<>>***"

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Mark Drake
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Gods, not god
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:24:10
EID:a624 20294b00
MSGID: 1:128/175 30f23479
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1c538
PID: GED G0615
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8328
Hello Gwenny!

Tuesday January 09 1996 01:29, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to William Childress:

WC>>> The gods you referenced are false. I.E., they are not what they are
WC>>> represented as.

GtP> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.

Not to mention, we all return to her.

GtP>  + Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)

Mark

---
* Origin: Cult of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits, 1st Circle (719)632-0057 (1:128/175)
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|From: Mark Drake
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  CHRISTMAS
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:36:56
EID:ed31 20294c80
MSGID: 1:128/175 30f23802
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1d939
PID: GED G0615
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8328
Hello Gwenny!

Tuesday January 09 1996 02:49, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Judith Bandsma:

JJ>>> But don't those secular aspects have fairly solid roots in the
JJ>>> Christmas story itself?  It still offends me to see nonbelievers
JJ>>> embrace  these celebrations, which have their root in our faith, while
JJ>>> denouncing  the faith itself.

JB>> A christmas tree is NOT, repeat NOT, a christian symbol. Why do you
use
JB>> a symbol with roots in the pagan tradition while denouncing pagans?
Do
JB>> you use lights on your tree? Not a far step from the burning of the
JB>> Yule log to provide light during the long winter night. NOT a christian
JB>> tradition. Kiss under the mistletoe? Why, you're a DRUID and didn't
JB>> even realize it. Leave out cookies and milk for Santa? Shades of
JB>> pixies! (or brownies, or elves, or kabouters, or whatever your European
JB>> background called them)

GtP> Hey, you should enjoy this song...although it's a little late for the
most
GtP> recent Christmas...

GtP> Hope you had a nice MidWinter Tree Sacrifice. 

Here is another one for everyone:

KILL A TREE

Sung to Jingle Bells

by Ali Katz


Dashing to the mall, in a fleet of rented trucks,
A million hairless apes, are out to spend some bucks.
It's Christmas time again - or maybe World War II-
And to keep their spirits happy they've got to kill a tree.


CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.


2nd verse
We know we each deserve, a ton or two of crap,
But to keep the goodies coming, we've got to spill some sap,
And string electric lights, and raise the ritual star,
And to bribe out friends and family to forget what jerks we are.


CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.

Last verse
We always kill a tree. That's always been enough.
For videos and Gi Joes and all the kiddy stuff
But Mommy wants a Harley, and Daddy wants a boat
That's prob'ly gonna cost at least a chicken and a goat

CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.

As Gwenny said, it's a little late, but save it for next Yule.

Mark

---
* Origin: Cult of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits, 1st Circle (719)632-0057 (1:128/175)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  A Visit 4/4
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:29:30
EID:e71c 2029b3a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35418
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1c1eb0b2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Katherine were killing time yakking about A Visit 4/4:

LB> CM> wrong  with a joke?  What is wrong with two people having sex outside
LB> CM> (where God probably wanted it), etc?


LB>"Married, Will Cheat?"

KW>   Do you think that's what he means by 'having sex
KW> outside'?  I guess that's where 'Three or Moresomes' comes in.


Right.  I don't see anything wrong with sex outdoors (unless it's on your
neighbors lawn without their permission, of course), but there is no
justification for "cheating" -- which implies a deliberate attempt to
deceive your spouse, from either a Christian standpoint, OR from any view
which values honor and honesty.  I found it hideous that he would attempt
to justify those echos by dragging in God as co-conspirator.




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Don't look conspicuous. It draws enemy fire.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Abortion
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:37:10
EID:6f14 2029b4a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35419
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b3
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about Abortion:

LB> Hi, Dick!  Welcome to Holysmoke.

LB> To get you up to speed on the participants of this particular
LB> conversation, Maria IS a literalist.  David is not a Christian, does
MR> 
MR> Thank you for the compliment. I'm glad my position is clear. But I am

Not a compliment -- simply a statement of fact, which you've confirmed.
Don't read anything more to it then that -- it was a neutral description
of your views.

MR> still wondering about yours. Are you a Christian? I really can't tell.

I suppose you'll simply have to decide whether to take me at my word on
it
or not.  I see many things from you that are insulting (IMO) to God, and
a gross twisting of Jesus' words into the pettiest justification for bigotry
and spite.  But I will not question whether or not you are Christian when
you say you are -- that is between you and God, and I trust in Him to deal
with you accordingly.  Will you allow the same to me, or would you like
to
continue questioning that which scripture has told you not to?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "I can't make it out.  It's either WELCOME or KEEP AWAY"  -Moe

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 09 Jan 96  23:00:51
EID:ef55 2029b800
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541a
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098c0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Maria were killing time yakking about A LITTLE HELP FROM SP:

JB> Most of the WORK involves finding sites, getting permits, paying off
JB> the local police. I know that's hard for some to believe, but almost
JB> all places we ever set up required a 'donation' to the local sheriff.
JB> Negotiating that donation's size could be the hardest part of all. Then
JB> arranging for electricity, water, etc. Not the glamourous stuff it
JB> might seem. 
MR> ========================rest of claptrap
MR> deleted======================= 
MR> Only PROVES that there are still charlatans in the world and YOU are
MR> part of it. The revival I assisted in didn't have the trappings you
MR> showed. OURs were sincere!!!! You are a total mockery!!!! And you
MR> accuse Christians of behaving contrary to what they  "preach". Can you
MR> say HYPOCRISY? Can you say THIEF? Can you say LIAR? Can you say
MR> APOSTASY? 

Can you say HISSY-FIT??!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Stop, or I'll say stop again." -- British Police

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   All
|Sub:  imploring
|Date: 09 Jan 96  23:56:08
EID:c09f 2029bf00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541b
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b5
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Steve and Maria were killing time yakking about imploring:

KW>   Your husband employees you?

SR> More likely he IMPLORES Maria to get a life.  Too bad she never
SR> listens. 

MR> As an obedient wife I would have to listen. So obviously those words
MR> have never crossed his lips. 


Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maria admits she has no life!!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "A chimpanzee and two trainees could run her." - Scotty
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   All
|Sub:  individuals
|Date: 09 Jan 96  23:56:17
EID:6392 2029bf00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541c
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Maria were killing time yakking about individuals:

MR> prefer my mail being addressed to MY name. So go toss that one in your
MR> hopper, since you haven't a clue as to my position on most things. 


More hoppers!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Shoes For Farm And Ranch: Claude Hopper
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  PERSEVERE
|Date: 09 Jan 96  23:35:00
EID:01c6 2029bc60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541d
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f18e59
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
AL and Preston were killing time yakking about PERSEVERE:
PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, AL SCHROEDER mumbled "PERSEVERE"

AS> Perhaps the Christians should not criticize each other in this
AS> echo; but then it looks a little hypocritical to outsiders,  who see
AS> us criticizing others without cleaning our own house first.

PS> Who better to criticize Christians than other Christians? There's at
PS> least a snowball's chance in hell that those criticized will listen
PS> to their fellow Christians.

No -- as you can plainly see, by the simple procedure of denying the
Christianity of anyone who criticizes them, they can safely ignore ALL
criticism.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Boren's Law: When in doubt, mumble.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:14:51
EID:8b61 202a11c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541e
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f09885
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jim and Maria were killing time yakking about 2 SO, WHY GOD?:

AS> the Scriptures themselves say this--in Romans Paul talks of good
AS> actions being a pagan's "advocate" before the Lord, that it shows the
AS> "Law etched on their hearts". It's not stressed from the pulpit, but
AS> it should be. Because it's right there.
MR>
MR> Where's that found?

JS> I think perhaps he is making reference to:

JS> (Rom 2:13 NIV)  For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous
JS> in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared
JS> righteous.

JS> (Rom 2:14 NIV)  (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do
by
JS> nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even
JS> though they do not have the law,

JS> (Rom 2:15 NIV)  since they show that the requirements of the law are
JS> written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and
JS> their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

AS> I don't
AS> think you, for instance, would be thrown away by any reasonable God,
AS> from what I know of you.

JS> I find this quite interesting that Al would think that for the sake
JS> of a 'good deed' this heinous blasphemer (M. Leipzig), brutal abuser
JS> of those who profess God's name would be spared eternal damnation. Not
JS> a shred of scripture to support this apostate theory.
MR> 
MR> True, for then it becomes a salvation based upon works and we know
MR> that isn't scriptural. 

I am sincerely curious -- what does the above passage of Romans mean to
you?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Acting is an art which consists of keeping the audience from coughing."

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  [1/2] GRACE
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:22:09
EID:5d92 202a12c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541f
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b7
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about [1/2] GRACE:

JB> Also, I must disagree here.  This attitude simply _scraps_ the concept
JB> of Divine Grace ("undeserved reward") and seeks to rob God of His 
JB> Authority.   I hold God's _Grace_ as superior to the idea that you
JB> must  "ask Jesus" (Who is God's _Son_, not God Himself, as Jesus
JB> _clearly_  indicates by speaking of "My Father in Heaven) "to be your

LB> I have broached this a few times with little success. When those who
LB> indicate a faith in grace ALONE, while insisting on a formulaic
LB> declaration of belief, they are condradicting themselves -- since
LB> requiring a specific "I believe" statement is, by definition, a WORK.

MR> 
MR> No, you err. "Works" is when someone does something like feeding the
MR> poor, helping an elderly lady across the street, helping the sick. It
MR> is this concept that some denominations feel will get them into
MR> heaven, and it's a falacy. Faith is strictly  "believing" which is NOT
MR> a work. It's a matter of receiving what is being offered. Check the
MR> Bible. 

Whoa -- reread what I said.  "A formulaic declaration of belief".  There
are those (and I truly don't know whether or not you are one of them) who
insist a SPECIFIC formalized statement of belief be publicly declared before
one is considered "saved".  That sort of thinking ranges all the way from
the Catholic insistance on baptism and confirmation as an entrance into
the
Body of Christ, to evangelical churches who expect some sort of Altar Call
experience and tend to think every one who is saved has an exact date or
one specific episode in which they "gave their heart to Jesus" (usually
through a prayer that has a very specific formula).  Such things are works,
else no one could argue about whether or not it was done "right".  As such,
it leaves no room for those who CANNOT complete the formula "correctly"
to
simply believe (I take it you've decided it's a bit silly to stand on your
comment about something not being valid because it's a "belief" thing?)
--
that leaves out everyone who lacks opportunity or ability to complete the
ritual properly.  I do not think God is so petty that he's going to stand
there, ticking off the elements of a repentant person's prayer and say,
"BUZZZZT! You forgot to specifically acknowledge thus-and-so, so you're
outa
here! Next!"


LB> It is only if Jesus can work, utterly unhindered by our failings, that
LB> Grace is possible.  
MR> 
MR> Jesus offers salvation inspite of our failings.

Exactly.
And why does that not include an imperfect ability to express one's faith?


JB> Lord and  personal saviour" in order for God to decide to save --rather
JB> than  waste-- you.  I cannot fathom why people seem to think they
JB> _know_  --from Bible lore or from _anything_ else-- whom God will
JB> choose to save  and whom He will not.  That is UP TO GOD ALONE, in real

LB> Amen!
MR> 
MR> First of all God doesn't pick and choose. Salvation is offered to ALL,
MR> but it's accepted by few. 

That would make God's plan a failure.  I think more accept it than you know;
you simply do not recognize it.  Thankfully, God has greater insight than
you
or I.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... I Love Fractions: Lois C. Denominator

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  AN INTERESTING SITUATION.
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:52:38
EID:a663 202a1680
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35420
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ANTHONY and AL were killing time yakking about AN INTERESTING SITUATION.:
AG> How do you mean? Many have been raised from the dead in our day.
AG> You're too late to peddle that load of old Nellie. 

AS> Names, dates, references, please.

Elvis, Jim Morrison, JFK, John Lennon (I heard his voice on that new Beatles
album, so no one can tell me any differently)....



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Nothing is real." - John Lennon

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Christian
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:59:49
EID:93ee 202a1760
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35421
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098c6
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about Christian:

JS> And this is Lynda Bustilloz who once professed to be a 'christian'.
I

LB> "Once"?  Don't be coy, Jim -- I am stating I AM a Christian. If you
LB> wish to say otherwise, have guts enough to say so flat out.  And on
LB> this *I* will be the literalist and affirm that the consequences for
LB> you saying so, or even judging in your heart without saying so
LB> regarding it will be greater for you than for me. My belief is between
LB> me and God -- it's not up to your vote. 
MR> 
MR> Would you flatter us with your testimony as to how you got "saved"
MR> then? 

No, Maria, I won't.  Like Jim, you also have taken it upon yourself to make
your judgement without first asking (or caring) what may have led up to
it.
I will let you live with that judgement, not hand over to you any further
information for you to judge.  You see, there ARE consequences for making
judgements about someone else's salvation, and as much as I don't like you,
I'm not going to assist you in getting yourself in deeper than you are now.
If there comes a point where you sincerely admit the error of making such
a
premature judgement (and it is premature if you make it at all, as it isn't
your place to do so, ever), then and only then we may discuss it.  And I
would be as interested in hearing your story at that time too. (Not now,
as I currently am so revolted by everything you say that I would be unable
to read about it objectively)



JS> have since read some of your alleged 'theology' and I guess I
JS> shouldn't even wonder why you demonstrate the same ridicule, lack of
JS> compassion and understanding here as your pagan cohorts...

LB> And that's what it all boils down to, isn't it?  You don't like it
LB> that I don't pretend I think you are some really great guy, and for
the
LB> supreme act of showing up your peculiar brand of lunacy, you just
LB> "know" I'm not a Christian.  Such humility, Jim, to think that the
LB> deciding factor of one's salvation rests on YOUR personal like or
LB> dislike. 
MR> 
MR> No, I wouldn't say that.

*shrug*  We can't all be a part of the Staal Fan Club.  He has you, I'm
sure
he won't lose sleep about me not joining in.

MR> But it sure seems you come to the defence of
MR> the "heathens" here and make a special point of tearing Christians
MR> down. So if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....it surely
MR> must be a duck! 

Then you haven't been paying close attention.  I come to the defense of
those
I see being wrongly accused by people who are not content to simply say
"You're wrong", or even engage in some Holysmokish witticism, but feel
obligated to slander God by suggesting that such a person will burn in hell
for an eternity simply for a disagreement with a Christian.  I point out
errors where I see them, whether it be from theist or nontheist -- and it's
really not MY fault if most of the errors come from the fundy side of the
fence.

Truly, Maria, I will be ever grateful that I have been a Christian for many
years, and have met Christians like Al so that I am aware of exactly how
SMALL
a crew your brand of Christian really is.  Between you, Jim, Christian,
and
Prewett, if I were a less experienced Christian, or one who has not known
how
MANY different types of nonpetty Christians there are, I would be tempted
to
take you all at your word, and simply give up, and declare myself not a
Christian, if it means that I must be like you.  What makes me angry beyond
words is that you, and the likes of you, HAVE turned people away from Christ
who mistake your shallow, vindictive view of the gospel for the real thing.

It would be so much easier for you if I would walk away from the faith,
so
that you could comfortably ignore me, but I won't.  Everytime you preach
a
gospel of hell and damnation, you show where your heart lies, and I won't
let you slander the Name of my Saviour unopposed.


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Your epidermis is showing!

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SCREW UP
|Date: 10 Jan 96  03:41:55
EID:90f8 202a1d20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35422
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0032c810
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
James and Katherine were killing time yakking about COINCIDENCE SCREW UP:
JB> cm> Death Cult?!?!?!?  I don't need to kill anyone to satisfy my God.
8)

JB> FR> And yet you pretend to have jointed the cult that has a 
JB> FR> long history of doing just that.

JB>Well, from what I've gathered, Christian doesn't have much support on
this
JB>echo, however, I can sympathize (and relate) to his situation (and I
*AM* in
JB>the dark on this one, not knowing exactly what faith Mr. Miller follows):

KW> Christian is some form of xtian.  The other xtians on this echo don't
KW> seem to willing to embrace him, though.

Well, would YOU?!  Who knows where he's been??! (outside, having a threesome
without his wife's knowledge, I guess)


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Damnit, Jim, I'm a doctor...he's willing to pay HOW MUCH?

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  HUCKSTERS
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:01:23
EID:39e7 202a2820
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35423
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Michael and Judith were killing time yakking about HUCKSTERS:

MH> Sounds a bit like the movie "Leap of Faith" with Steve Martin and
MH> Debra Winger, BTW. You ever see it?

JB> Nope. Can't stand Steve Martin.

You probably wouldn't have cared for the movie, as the "theme" was that
the
scam artist was changed by an encounter with a boy who had real faith (as
opposed to most of those at the revivals who were looking for simply a
spiritual "high").  However, Mike's right -- it is obvious by your description
that there was someone on the writing staff of "Leap of Faith" who had a
good
working knowledge of the sort of trickery and mumbo-jumbo used by many
travelling revivalists.

On the subject of the majority of those who attend revivals, I would say
that
it sounds like you give back fair return for their "donations", Maria's
conniption aside.  When you left, they felt good about themselves, both
for having attended such an "uplifting" event, and for helping out someone
they thought was in need.  Not a bad trade off.  I don't go to the carnival
without expecting to pay a certain amount for the rides and booths -- if
it
is a 2000% markup on the prices, or the BIG prizes aren't actually winnable,
that doesn't really matter.  I know what I'm willing to spend, and if I
can
say I had a good time after, I don't really care whether or not those at
the
carnival "conned" me out of my money.  I got what I paid for.

The real crime you committed, as far as Maria is concerned, is not in ripping
anyone off, but in forcing her to realize the nature of the ripoff.  You
gave away the magician's secret, and she will never be able to see another
revival in the same untarnished light again -- you've spoiled the show by
letting her see what's behind the curtain.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... If the conniption fits, wear it.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  religion in schools
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:18:21
EID:0c72 202a2240
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35424
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f09895
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marilyn and Maria were killing time yakking about religion in schools:

MB> and its relationship to the advancement of civilization." It would
MB> be difficult to teach art, music, literature, and most social
MB> studies without considering religious influences.

MR> But the study of the influence of religion in our history is slowly
MR> disappearing. It's now come to the point that the history books are
MR> teaching our children that the reason the pilgrims came over was for
MR> financial reasons; totally missing the religious  persecution that
MR> occurred in England. 

No mention of their religious reasons at all?  I find that hard to believe.
Which history text is that in?  If you give me the title, I'd like to
address the publisher of it and ask why they ignore an essential portion
of our history.  The beliefs of the Puritans colored many of their actions,
and has continued to have ramifications for us as a nation to this day.
I will say this -- the history texts my kids have used make no such deletion.

MB> The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other
MB> scripture as literature (either as a separate course or within
MB> some other existing course) are all permissible public school
MB> subjects. It is both permissible and desirable to teach that the
MB> pilgrims came to this country with a particular religious vision,
MR> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
MB> that Catholics and other have been subjected to persecution or
MB> that mahy of those participating in the abolitionist, women's
MB> suffrage, and civil rights movements had religious motivations.

MR> But they are not. My daughter's history book negates that.

Oh, good -- it's your daughter's text, so you will be able to pass on the
title.  If you would, please include the publishers address so that I can
write them.


MB> 6. These same rules apply to the recurring controversy surrounding
MB> theories of evolution. Schools may teach about explanations of
MB> life on earth, including religious ones (such as "creationism"),
MB> in comparative religion or social studies classes. In science
MB> class, however, they may present only genuinely scientific
MB> critiques or, or evidenced for, any explanation of life on earth,
MB> but not religious critiques (beliefs unverifiable by scientific
MB> methodology). Schools may not refuse to teach evolutionary theory
MB> in order to avoid giving offense to religion nor may they
MB> circumvent these rules by labeling as science an article of
MB> religious faith. Public schools must not teach as scientific fact
MB> or theory any religious doctrine, including "creationism,"
MB> although any genuinely scientific evidenced for or against any
MB> explanation of life may be taught. Just as they may neither
MB> advance nor inhibit any religious doctrine, teachers should not
MB> ridicule, for example, a student's religious explanation for life
MB> on earth.

MR> But evolution is part of the religion of humanism...which IS being
MR> taught. 

"Religious humanism" is an invention of the Christian fundamentalists, to
try to drag science over into the religious arena, since they cannot firmly
plant religion in the scientific arena.  It's always seems a rather double
edged sword to me, since by doing so, one might consider scientific research
centers as "churches" and grant them tax exemptions on that basis.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Physical laws simply cannot be ignored." -- Spock

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Ritualized cannibalism?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:26:38
EID:142e 202a2340
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35425
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f0989d
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about Ritualized cannibalism?:
RS> Christians practice ritualized cannibalization.  Are your proud of
RS> that? 
MR> 

MR> Please expound?


LB> He's referring to the Lord's Supper:

LB> "Take, eat, this is my Body, which is given for you.  Do this in
LB> remembrance of me."

LB> "Drink ye all of this; for tis is my Blood of the New Covenant, which
LB> is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.  Whenever
you
LB> drink it, do this for the remembrance of me."

LB> (That's from the BCP -- different denominations may render the
LB> phrasing somewhat differently.)


MR> And if this is the passage being referred to then it is a ludicrous
MR> remark. It is obvious NO one was eatting the body of Jesus nor
MR> drinking his blood.  The Lord's table is a time of rememberance of his
MR> death...PERIOD. 


I agree.  I was simply explaining to you the nature of the accusation of
"ritualized cannibalism" as you requested.

I can't say it's exactly "ludicrous" -- early Christians apparently DID
see
the Sacraments as literally becoming the Body and Blood -- enough so that
early critics called their practice cannibalistic (you see, the accusation
is
no new thing, but has been levied at Christians since the beginning).
Roman Catholics (and I believe, Orthodox) officially still see it as becoming
Body and Blood, and within my own church there is much variance of opinion
regarding the nature of the Eucharist, with many simply stating that Christ
asked us to "take and eat, not take and understand".

Most liturgical Christians do see it as having spiritual benefit and not
being
simply a memorial, while most protestants as far as I know do see it only
in
is memorial sense, and therefore the accusation of cannibalism WOULD seem
patently absurd.  Whether Preston realizes it or not, the accusation itself
both pertains to and cuts me far deeper than it would you.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Is it progress if a cannibal uses a knife and fork?

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  The 101st Classs
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:45:46
EID:9635 202a25a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35426
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b6
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about The 101st Classs:

LB> I have this image of there being a whole waiting room JUST for people
LB> like this.  And God comes in, sighs, and says, "This is the 101 class
LB> for all of you who COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT.  Let's try again....No,
LB> Maria, you should have gone BEFORE you showed up....Christian, get the
LB> pencil out of your nose and settle down,  Hector, you can't ROTFL me
LB> before I open my mouth...."

MR> Then we have Lynda rushing in the door totally disheveled and confused
MR> saying,"The directions in this BOOK said I was supposed to be
MR> here...but I must have gotten lost on the way." 

(G) Very good, Maria. I'll actually give you points for showing a bit of
wit.

Seriously, though, you are probably right -- we will ALL likely be
in the class.  I look forward to it, and see no insult in realizing that
there is much about God I have left to learn.  Nor do I see God as a
tyrant schoolmaster who will flunk us for having not attained graduate
school knowledge while still here in Kindergarten. Nor will I be dismayed
at finding that both those I have called friend and those I have called
enemy are in there with me.





Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Truth will sooner come out of error than from confusion." -F.Bacon

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  The Case for Jesus
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:49:57
EID:249d 202a2620
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35427
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f18e6e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Eric and Preston were killing time yakking about The Case for Jesus:
PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Eric Williams mumbled "The Case for
PS> Jesus" 
EW> PSū The usual count is 66, dimwit. Are you using the bugfix Bible?

EW> Really? 66? Interesting....mine has 73, I guess if Glen is a "dimwit"
EW> for going 1 over your count, that must make me a real dope...eh?

PS> Using a version with the Apocrypha?

Some of us don't like censorship -- even of our holy books.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "... Freedom ... is a worship word..." - Cloud William

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  THE ROTHSCHILD DYNASTY 6/
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:51:20
EID:d5d6 202a2660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35428
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f18e71
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
J.J. and Preston were killing time yakking about THE ROTHSCHILD DYNASTY
6/:

PS> Just think of it! Jews, Satanists, atheists, and nihilists,
PS> all working together for a common cause! NOT!

JH> You left out the Freemasons, the United Nations, the Roman Catholic
JH> Church, the Federal Reserve, the Ku Klux Klan, Procter and Gamble,
JH> the ACLU and the entire population of Fargo, North Dakota.

PS> Also the Knights of Columbus, the Knights Templar, the Illuminati,
PS> the OTO, the Wobblies, and the Girl Scouts.

The Girl Scouts???!!!!  How did you find out about us??!  Has someone been
sending secret messages in the cookies?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A secret prize in every call.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  love
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:05:24
EID:280b 202a28a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35429
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 88FE4382
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about love:

MH> I like the way he capitalized "Her Tight Brests" [sic]

LB> Well, if you had to walk around in a metallic bra, you'd call it tight
LB> with a capital T, too!

MH> Hey, leave my private life out of this, OK? :-)

OOOOOHHHHH??????!!!
heh- I don't even know what you look like, and that's STILL a hysterical
image!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Oui, mon Capitan." -- Q

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  [1/3] Bible Follies
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:07:03
EID:735d 202a28e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3542a
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f0989b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 1 of 3...

Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about Bible Follies:

MR> Marilyn, the last time I checked, it was the "state" who wouldn't
MR> allow anything remotely "religious" any where near schools. And
MR> mention of religion in history has been forbidden as a topic of
MR> discussion.

LB> Really?  What grade are your kids in?  I haven't seen anything
LB> remotely "religious" being banned from my kid's schools -- and
LB> altogether that is, let's see....6 elementary schools and 1 Middle
LB> School, covering 3 states (CA, AZ, and MD) as well as a DODs school
LB> over in Germany.  Last month's elementary school holiday program
LB> included religious Christmas carols, a Jewish Hannukah song as well
as
LB> secular pieces.  The Middle School's Advanced Band included several
LB> religious selections, including a beautiful canticle for trombone which
LB> my daughter and husband practiced together and played for our church.


MR> My daughter's school would only allow secular Christmas carols..none
MR> that dealt with the Christ child..No "Little Town of Bethlehem" or
MR> "Joy to the World". But I happen to be in NE. 

Hmmm -- what part of NE?  I grew up in Belleview, outside of Offutt AFB
near
Omaha.

I suppose each system deals with it as they will -- but that is the point
here.  You tend to suggest  that it is some sort of federal infiltration,
or even at the state level.  I would say that such prohibitions come from
the district level (where they should be, as that is where the community
can
have the greatest say in how their schools are run).  As such, you are
free to attend every district meeting and speak your peace, if such really
concerns you.

OTOH, while I have no problem with nonsecular music being offered at a school
program, I would have no problem if that nonsecular music were Jewish, or
Indian or Asian, or even "The Lord of the Dance" which my grandmother use
to sing to me as a child, and I have since learned that it is considered
a
Wiccan "hymn" of sorts. Good music is good music, and I have never believed
in keeping children ignorant of beliefs and cultures that differ from our
own.  In Arizona, the school children participated in La Posada -- and missed
it not being part of the Christmas tradition here.

Nor would I have a problem with an entirely secular program. After all,
Christians have easy access to the religiously oriented programs via their
church, and those who come from a different religious POV certainly have
the
same right as you or I to have a voice in how their children are educated,
and whether or not their tax dollars should support religion -- primary
ONE
specific religion, as even when other religions are given a nod, it is
minimal at best.

LB> And just last year, I accompanied my daughters Social Studies class
on
LB> a field trip to D.C. where we made two stops -- one to the Moslem
LB> Cultural Center and the other to the National Cathedral.  Since I know
LB> the second will interest you more, I assure you the woman who was our
LB> guide spoke with deep reverence about the religious concepts that went
LB> into the construction of the Cathedral.  In BOTH places, the kids were
LB> allowed (and DID) ask theological questions as well those of a more
LB> mundane level. 

LB> Sorry, Maria -- no government boogieman stopping the public school
LB> systems I know from acknowledging the existance of religion, either
in
LB> history, or among their student population.
MR> 
MR> Maybe not in your area...but mine there is.

Then you have two options - - move, or get involved more.  But don't assume
that your school district is reflective of the country at large, or that
it's
rigid interpretation of freedom of religion indicates some sort of nationwide
conspiracy to prevent your children from expressing their religion.


MR> There have been several
MR> attempts in this state to close down the Christian schools by using
MR> phoney baloney insinuations. They constantly harrass the schools with
MR> inspections, which prove to be naught in the end.  

Early, you said they HAD shut down a number of Christian schools.  Have
they,
or has it merely been an "attempt".  Could you please post news articles,
or
specific schools so that it could be verified?

As for "phoney baloney insinuations", such tactics are also used by Christians
toward public schools -- insinuations like the schools are teaching satanism,
and other unadulterated BS.  And ALL schools are subject to "inspections",
because in this this country all children are entitled to an education,
and
if a private school is simply hiring nonskilled parents, or subjecting the
students to unsafe practices or abuse, the state has a right to step in.
There are also health and nutritional standards that must be met by both
private and public schools -- it's not harassment, its the insistance that
the
children attending those schools will not be harmed by their time there,
or
miss out on the minimum level of education they have a right to as citizens
of the U.S.  As long as the school meets those standards, the State couldn't
care less if they are taught religion.

>>> Continued to next message...

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  [2/3] Bible Follies
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:07:04
EID:37ad 202a28e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3542b
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f0989b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 2 of 3...


MR> And the theory of evolution is taught to our  children as
MR> if it were fact (and you know we disagree on that).  The schools have

LB> It's taught as theory, Maria, along with the evidence pointing to that
LB> theory. If you disagreed that 1+1 is 2, would you expect the schools
to
LB> say it's 7 in order to appease your views?
MR> 
MR> In my daughter's school it is taught as fact. They never say "its only
MR> a guess but the best one we have". 

That's because it's not a "guess" it's a theory based on research and evidence
gathered via the scientific method.  And unless your school is truly dropping
the ball, it also mentions the "evolution" of the theory of evolution,
which would be indicative of its being an ongoing process.  Science teachers
nowadays have study as much as their students just to keep up with all the
new discoveries -- which is probably one reason there is such a shortage
of
good science teachers, as it means that one can never rest and think they
know it all.  Another reason is that those that are interested in science
get
a bit weary of finding their classroom turned into a religious battleground.


MR> also tried becoming our children's parents by talking to our children
MR> about sex without our permission and without our values being

LB> Again, how old are your children? My oldest is in 8th grade (at an age
LB> where sexuality is covered in the Health curriculum) and I've had to
LB> sign a permission slip to allow her to attend those sessions.  
MR> 
MR> Mine is in 7th but NO permission slip came home. And I did ask for a

Did you check her backpack?

MR> copy of the curiculum and they hemmed and hawed where the course was
MR> over before they "remembered" to give it to me (though I called them
MR> weekly on it). 

Did your child attend?  Is it at ALL possible that your child failed to
deliver
said information to you because she knew that you would object and keep
her from attending the class?  Kids don't like to be singled out, and it
may have been that your child did not want to face the commentary that would
have surely followed having to be exempted from the class.  Young adolescents
can be intensely cruel, especially when it comes to their budding awareness
of sexuality.

However, that aside, I seriously doubt that if you'd gone to the school
and
stood there until they gave you the curriculum into your own hand, that
they
would have refused -- it's a lot easier in the long run to take a day out
to be IN the school than it is to sit home and complain about for weeks.

MR> intergrated. They also have taken it  upon themselves to tell them how
MR> they should act socially, in regard to other races and even
MR> homosexuality (I'm not saying their ideas are necessarily wrong in
MR> this, but that we aren't asked to participate and interject our values

LB> Horrors.  They set rules that disallow students from being abused by
LB> other students, verbally and physically.  How dare they?!  Look, unless
MR> 
MR> Note my last two lines, please!!! I said it isn't necessarily wrong,
MR> but that I would like to interject my own values in social issues with
MR> my daughter. It is my job to be the parent, not the school. 

Well, DON'T you interject your own values regarding social issues with your
daughter? Or am I confused, and this is a boarding school where she never
gets to come home?  Good heavens, you have her all summer, as well as every
morning and evening -- if you haven't established a code of ethics in that
period of time, how do you hope to do so on school time?

MR> I'm not talking about RULES...I'm talking about values that the
MR> schools set for my children or rather the lack of values that I feel
MR> are important that I should influence my child with but the school
MR> negates with their propaganda. 

You are handing over WAY too much control to the school if they can "negate"
what you have taught her from the day she was born.  Most values are set
by
the age of four -- it sounds like one value you must have set within her
is
to go along with the herd, if merely being with a group of kids can "negate"
everything you've said.  If you see the school as so dangerous (propaganda?!),
then why is she attending there?

MR> in any of these  discussions). Most of the time, we don't even know
MR> about the social agendas being put forth until the "sessions" are
MR> already in progress or after the fact. So with all this happening, I

LB> It's your responsibility to be aware of any "social agendas" going on
LB> in the school system.  Ever hear of the PTA?  Ever considered
LB> volunteering in the classroom so you can SEE what's happening?

MR> Yea, let me tell you about the PTA. I joined them this year and NOT
MR> once have I heard from them about a PTA meeting. 


>>> Continued to next message...

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  [3/3] Bible Follies
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:50:21
EID:cbfc 202a2e40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3542c
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f0989b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 3 of 3...

I've been a member of the PTA whereever we've been since the day my children
started school.  I'll tell you this -- it is entirely possible that the
PTA
DID deliberately not inform you about meetings.  If your real-life persona
is even vaguely like you come across online, they may well have been avoiding
you on purpose.  However, that's not good enough as an excuse for you --
PTA meetings are generally set up on a regular basis, and one doesn't NEED
to
be member to attend.  Schools usually send home monthly newsletters which
include meeting dates and times, but even if yours doesn't a phone call
to
the school secretary (anonymous, in case they really are hiding out from
you)
will give you that information.

Now, if you were expecting some sort of personal invitation to attend --
don't hold your breath.  The couple of bucks for dues doesn't BEGIN to cover
the cost of that sort of thing, and personal attention is usually reserved
for those who have put in volunteer time.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Persecution is a bad and indirect way to plant religion."
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The only intelligent fundy...is an EX-fundy. (1:109/601)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  The Case for Jesus
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:01:50
EID:204a 20290020
MSGID: 3:711/933 30f1b136
REPLY: 1:271/320.0 30EDC2DE
Dear Brother Glen Zilly,

Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

GZ> The Bible contains 67 books written by different authors of different
GZ> languages in different locations at different times and was finally
GZ> compiled some years after the life of Jesus Christ.

I believe you mean 66 Books.

Kind regards,

Anthony Grigor-Scott

--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS (61)-2-809-3723 West Ryde (3:711/933)
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|From: John Brawley
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Tetrahedraverse
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:28:05
EID:c21b 20295b80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 036f6f4e
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 030c870f
On 06 Jan 96, Fredric Rice wrote:

> =======================================================
>  Copied from U_NEW_THEORY by John Brawley (86:8012/9.1)

FR> We saw which ignorant pseudo-science posted to this forum before, you
FR> know. It's no different than any Creationist tract from the ICR.

(*grin*)  _Sure_ it is!  It's my own work, not something parroted from 
the work of others.

JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org [or] jbrawley@cheswicks.toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: jbrawley@slacc.com   FidoNet: 1:100/435.1

... I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

--- PPoint 1.96
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: John Brawley
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  mcproof.txt
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:28:58
EID:d7d4 20295b80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 388e6306
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147ea1
On 06 Jan 96, Fredric Rice wrote:

FR> Steve,

jb> Wrong name.

FR> Same fundy.

That your idea of accuracy?  It's to (*guffaw*).

JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org [or] jbrawley@cheswicks.toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: jbrawley@slacc.com   FidoNet: 1:100/435.1

... "I am Superconductor of Borg; resistance is futile."

--- PPoint 1.96
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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SEEN-BY: 289/72 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: John Brawley
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Tetrahedraignorance
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:30:00
EID:8785 20295bc0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 b8ea15a7
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147ea2
On 06 Jan 96, Fredric Rice wrote:

jb> This spacetime metric contains "God" as its major nonlocal topological
jb> component.  I will not spend much time defending it here in HolySmoke,

FR>   Once again the cultist attempts
FR> to defend his occultism by pseudo-science.

jb> "Cultist"...?  Wrong designation.  You're clueless, Clueless.

FR> You're the one who's playing the Creationist, Steve.  If you're going
FR> to act like a fundy Creationist, expect to be treated like one.

I don't "expect" anything from the likes of you but ignorant 
superstitious (atheist) claptrap.  Makes us about even, eh?

JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org [or] jbrawley@cheswicks.toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: jbrawley@slacc.com   FidoNet: 1:100/435.1

... Your logic is flawed; evacuate your premises immediately.

--- PPoint 1.96
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  THUMB-SUCKING FUNDY
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:30:56
EID:27c3 20295bc0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 9c5c7eb0
On 07 Jan 96, Roger Hunter wrote:

-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-

JB> Absolute-omnipotent, anything-is-possible God-acts are not evidenced.

RH> No, but they are claimed. The OT is full of them,
RH> It also fits the definition of "omnipotent" better than QG nudging.

Right on both counts, but for me it's necessary not to limit things to 
Bibliolatry.  There're all these OTHER religious patterns that have to 
be taken into account, like the Buddhist, Shinto, Zen(semi-Buddhist), 
Jain, and so on (and on, and on, and on...).  Not to mention that ALL of

them have to have themselves harmonized with science.  QG's one main 
value is that it is primarily guided by _scientific_ information, which

by definition and by methodological procedure, is inherently "universal"

(worldwide the same).

It seems in here that most of the griping has to do with the Bible-style

fundie-isms.  The world is MUCH wider than that.

JB> The timing of  a rock-fall, for example, may be adjusted, since
JB> logically an almost-  about-to-fall rock will fall only when the
JB> balance is broken by some one  quantum change that is _right_ on the
JB> edge of going over into "falling"  from "stable."  Or animals, which
do

RH> I question whether a quantum phenomena would be large enough for this.
RH> If it was that close to falling, the difference in time would not be
RH> measurable.

That depends on how carefully it's balanced, and on the other gross 
"physical" forces near it, upon it, or affecting it, wouldn't you say?

The quantum-science attitude toward any one single quantum event is that

it's _ambiguous_.  That's where the "permission" lies, and even that's 
restricted compared to the internal edge-of-chaos systems in a non- 
'self-will'-quality animal brain, eh?

RH> BTW, did you get my message on icosaheda(not)s? Is 13 spheres enough?

JB> 13 spheres is the exact number for _both_ an 'icosahedro(not)' and a
JB> vector equilibrium.  I sent you a long post in return, on that one.
JB> You  did not receive it?  (You mentioned somehow you had _15_ in the

RH> Yes, I did, and answered it too. FIDO is uncertain at best. Many of
my
RH> messages seem to evaporate somewhere....usually the BEST ones, too!

(*Grin*)  Known effect.  Sympathize.

JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org [or] jbrawley@cheswicks.toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: jbrawley@slacc.com   FidoNet: 1:100/435.1

... The Eye of Proteus becomes you.

--- PPoint 1.96
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: John Prewett
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Antichrist
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:17:07
EID:7aa8 20299a20
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD186FB3
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
me> Jesus  said NOTHING about Antichrist. Paul   said NOTHING about
me> Antichrist. Peter  said NOTHING about Antichrist. James  said NOTHING
me> about Antichrist. Daniel said NOTHING about Antichrist. The Revelation
me> says NOTHING about Antichrist.

JP> The Revelation says SOMETHING about the final "beast"s.
JH> And where, pray tell, does it say that the Booger Monsters
JH> in the Revelation are Antichrist?

Periodically from Revelation chapter 13 

to the start of chapter 20.

Everybody that hates God, Christ and Christians

will love the final "beast"s. 

WBW,  John

--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds,  FBKS,  AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: John Prewett
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  Pretending there are deities 
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:29:31
EID:7eb1 20299ba0
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD18729B
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
LSM> My father current lies near death after suffering three strokes
LSM> this week and God is in the room with all of us,
LSM> comforting while we hold vigil over him.

Fred Rice> I imagine it's comforting to the ignorant to pretend, yes.

For lurkers,  the above is the remark which started this. 

RS> John Prewett wrote in a message to David Hilling:
JP> Hmmmmmm,  Now where  did I lay that book of jokes
JP> about heathens and queers dying of AIDS ?

My original response [above] was to Fred Rice, not to D.Hilling. 

RS> Fuck off.
JP> I note that,  being the little bitch that you are,
JP> you deleted Fred's comment that provoked mine.
DH> John, you sure got a lot of balls to be bitching and moaning
DH> over someone altering posts, you hypocritical little shitass.
DH> I suspect that your sense of humor is deader'n John F. Kennedy.
JP> Come back when you catch me deleting without marking the deletion,
JP> and deleting to materially change meaning of a post.
RS> It makes little difference what anybody said to you .......

Your above sums up the heathen judgment of you and Hilling.

You both show obvious dishonesty by ignoring

[deliberately deleting] Fred's comment

which  I facetiously responded to.

If you cared about cruel remarks,  
you would have also chastized Fred. 

You didn't chastize Fred because you're just little

heathen hypocrites that really don't care about 

cruel remarks coming from the team heathen. 

RS> ........ and that does not
RS> change your remarks above or make them right.

In the context of what Fred said,  

it was obvious that I was being facetious.

RS> As such, fuck off.

WBW,  John

--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds,  FBKS,  AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: John Prewett
|To:   Hector Plasmic
|Sub:  HOW MANY MESSIAHS ON
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:33:53
EID:f88e 20299c20
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD1873A1
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
JP> ps- just a hint.  Mike's point is that if something is true/real,
JP> then it is true/real whether one likes it or not.
HP> Hint:  It's up to the one who claims something is true/real
HP>        to demonstrate that it is true/real.

Opinion noted.  WBW,  John

--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds,  FBKS,  AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/1 2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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|From: John Prewett
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:39:15
EID:4c2e 20299ce0
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD1874E3
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
As> #5  Yes, that does figure if you think about it. 
As> Where is the proof of a 'heaven'?  I see none.

Get back to me when you WANT to see a bit of "evidence."

WBW,  John

--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds,  FBKS,  AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 08 Jan 96  04:10:28
EID:7f9d 20282140
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60350857
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD1507F9
As>> What keeps all you white-lighters clinging to your 
As>> religion?

JP> What's a "white-lighter religion"?

New Improved Lemon Scented Christianity WITH BLEACH!

(or was that flavor christals? I forget...)


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  SATAN BEGONE !
|Date: 08 Jan 96  05:28:21
EID:4341 20282b80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6035bbce
REPLY: 1:372/57@fidonet.org 56b71bb5
JB> I still believe our 'Christian' is Psycho Ward. And 
JB> especially since I posted to him in Dutch and haven't gotten 
JB> an answer yet. That was Ward's MO. He couldn't find anyone 
JB> to translate for him so he just left them alone. Everyone 
JB> else has always asked for, or demanded, an explanation.

Was that Dutch?
I thought it was line noise.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  I,M STILL HERE
|Date: 08 Jan 96  05:31:35
EID:0500 20282be0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6035c648
JB> I got an idea for a chain of gift shops called 'Tacky 
JB> Town'. They would specialize in things like chia pets, fish 
JB> lamps with marbles, etc. Unfortunately, I have lost my 
JB> arbiter of tackiness. She was a woman who, if she liked 
JB> something, you could be absolutely sure it was tacky.

JB> Want a job?


No, but you can put me down for one of those electric "cat"
clocks. The ones where the tail and eyeballs go back and forth.
I'd like a light green one.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Monty Gibson
|Sub:  Why
|Date: 08 Jan 96  05:45:10
EID:494e 20282da0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6035ee40
MG> You must know alot about sodomy to be such an expert? But 
MG> God destroyed a whole city because of the lude behavior 
MG> that was going on and yes, including sodomy. Just a little 
MG> history that you probably never heard of before.

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!

The Bible clearly states WHY Sodom was destroyed.

It's in Ezekial 16:49;

"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom,
pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness
was in her and in her daughters, neither did she
strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

Can you understand what this verse is saying? Or do
I need to explain it to you? Sodom was destroyed for
being uncharitable. Didn't have a thing to do with
sex in any form or fashion.

Don't like it?
Take it up with God.
I didn't write the fucking Bible.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Kirk Bailey
|Date: 08 Jan 96  06:20:00
EID:4c79 20283280
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60363fc9
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30ea67c5
KB>>>> As a last bit of advice; DO NOT talk this way in the 
KB>>>> `real' world; someone will adjust your dental geometry 
KB>>>> for you. Good-bye.

DW> If I remember correctly, Kirk posted the above nonsense to 
DW> me.  I'm still waiting on him to come to Knoxville and make 
DW> the attempt.  I need neither laws nor firearms to fuck up 
DW> his day.

I thought I got that one...

Damn... he's sending out form-letter threats.
I hate when they do that.

Not unlike the letter I got from Publisher's Clearing House which
said on the outside of the envelope: YOU ARE ONE OF OUR TOP FIVE
FINALISTS! REPLY NEEDED.

Just before I drop it into the trashcan next to the mailboxes, I 
pause to look into the can. As expected, there are already about
twenty TOP FIVE FINALIST notices already in the can. 


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 08 Jan 96  11:43:38
EID:f3b7 20285d60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60392b52
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 0389a603
rj>> Jesse makes me think more and more that William Kunstler
rj>> really didn't die, and he's just hiding out in Florida 
rj>> under an assumed name.

FR> Yeah?  Forgive my ignorance; I don't know how William 
FR> Kunstler was.

He was old.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  A Visit 4/4
|Date: 08 Jan 96  11:51:46
EID:1221 20285e60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 603946cd
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147e86
jjh>> I saw nothing to indicate he is a "heathen" or White Punk 
jjh>> On Dope Pagan. The impression I got is that he is exactly 
jjh>> what he appears to be: someone who is a believer due to 
jjh>> societal or family expectations and is somewhat less than 
jjh>> comfortable with his religion.

FR> It's the message areas on his/her board that make me 
FR> wonder.  If he/she is really the rabid fundy that we see 
FR> here on HolySmoke, I wouldn't expect his/her BBS to have 
FR> those forums.

FR> Unless he's/she's one of these Jim Bakkkers who rants about 
FR> homasexyules while rubbing his crotch.

I think the Swaggart profile is a better description than
Bakker. 




ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Nut Case #326522 - "Noah's" Magic Boat lunacy
|Date: 08 Jan 96  11:56:45
EID:2ef5 20285f00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 603980b0
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147e87
FR>> Perhaps if I had included Grey aliens you would have
FR>> recognized it as such.

jjh>> The Good Greys or the Evil Greys?

FR> Um, the ones which capture tight young women, tie them up 
FR> on their beds, and conduct "medical experiments" upon them.  
FR> I don't know if they're "good" or "evil."

When you realize that such fantasies are as close as those 
people get to having a sex life, it probably makes them
the Good Guys.

After all, some people take out "adult personal" ads to
receive such services:

DWF/M (dumpy white female living with mother) seeks ET
for "experiments" and quiet nights in. Prefer non-smoker.
Bring your own restraints or use mine. All planets of
origin accepted. Quiet types OK. Must be kind, understanding
and caring. Reply: Fat Chance Trailer Park and Auto Storage,
Box 666, Dickbump, Tennesee.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Sean McCullough
|Sub:  So -shoot- me!
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:29:16
EID:a4a0 202893a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 603ce2b2
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 039332d6
SM> ~!~ William Tecumseh Sherman: American Military Genius and 
SM> Statesman!!

Tecumseh?
No wonder he was such a son of a bitch.
His parents must have hated children.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   LARRY SITES
|Sub:  VIRGIN
|Date: 09 Jan 96  03:51:14
EID:cf2f 20291e60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60424562
LS> Paul in no different than David Koresh. Both lunies who 
LS> like to talk.

I have to differ. Paul appearently had the "gift of gab".

I listened to Koresh's "give me an hour of air time and 
we'll come out" sermon of March 2, 1993 and Koresh was no
public speaker. My impression at the time (and now) was
that it was Koresh's first, last and only attempt at speaking
before an audience. He probably had flunkys do his "teaching"
for him within the compound.

The following samples should give some idea at how piss-poor
he was at expressing his thoughts verbally. All elipsis indicate
long pauses, not editing:

"Now about the... of the scene. Jesus went up to the temple
and talked. The Jews... having never learned. Now the days
of Israel, most scholars, teachers, will agree that the
schools of Israel ordained by the king of Egypt and also the
Pharisees were still subject to the... theological... of today."

"Well, Christ tells you... in Matthew 24. He says that ye shall
see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
and the Holy Place. Of course, it says ye that read it may not
understand. What kind of points are these? What is in the mind
of Christ? Is Christ trying to tell us that we need to go back
and study the prophet Daniel? That maybe Daniel had the inside
story on abomination and desolation? Abomination is something
nobody wants, especially if it makes us desolate. What do these
things mean?"

"God in heaven looks to be a rock, doesn't he. Oh God, hard rock,
but wait a minute... through Christ we can see that God is not
as hard as you might think he is."

"It's kind of like people always build the... and garnish
their... yet they hate to kill living prophets. But nonetheless,
the... churches lived to see it. For anyone to read direct
counsel given, beginning with a name for church... the rest
is given."


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Pam Gray
|Sub:  Re: 325
|Date: 09 Jan 96  04:42:19
EID:8753 20292540
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6042813b
REPLY: 1:250/1004 01905839
PG> I believe now being Wiccan is now a legal religion so 
PG> there's christian, jehovah (sp?) witness, moslem, buddist, 
PG> judism and perhaps one or two I haven't mentioned.

Is "Judism" the worship of Judy or the worship of Jud?

I keep getting those two mixed up.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 09 Jan 96  05:21:48
EID:f155 20292aa0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6042eaf9
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30ecac4d
JH>> But it would still have to be sturdy enough to withstand 
JH>> accelerations up to your .1c crusing speed.

RJ> A Hefty bag is structurally sturdy enough to withstand .1c
RJ> in a vacuum.  

Emphasis should be on the acceleration, not the .1c.
A 1 kilometer diameter Hefty bag scoop would tear under 
it's own "weight" while under acceleration. Something
has to hold it in place. Otherwise it would end up
trailing behind you.

(The structural dynamics for a "scoop" are not the same 
as for a sail. You could always make a sail stronger 
simply by adding more tethers. A scoop would require
rigid members.)


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  CHRISTMAS
|Date: 09 Jan 96  05:40:52
EID:5294 20292d00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60431597
REPLY: 1:280/9 0297c118
RB> And the greatest of all AM radio stations (at least, in my 
RB> youth): KAAY, Miracle on Bleeker Street.

1090 kHz in Little Rock, Ark.

Now THAT is a station that has done some changes.
In case you don't already know, their current format is hardcore
right wing religious "patriotic" shit.

But what really caught my eye was the reference to Bleeker Street.
Thought you might have been talking about "Bleeker in the Bowery"
for a moment.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   RONALD VASS
|Sub:  Offensive ASCII
|Date: 09 Jan 96  05:53:58
EID:3269 20292ea0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60432b84
RS>>There's always the HolySmoke standard [notice the penis]:

RS>>                              (        )
RS>>                             {   (| |)  }
RS>>                             {    | |   }
RS>>                              {    U   }

RV> S O    W H A T   .. he , according to the myth , was a male 
RV> ? yes/no. 


Eh... does it really make any deferens, Vass?


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Kris OKelly
|Sub:  Re: ACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK
|Date: 09 Jan 96  05:56:53
EID:f302 20292f00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60432dbb
REPLY: 1:279/14.3 30ee6906
KO> noah was a real person in world history!, well God Sad the 
KO> world was so bad & Sinful he wanted to start over.. 

God Sad?

Whatever happened to God Happy?


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  A Visit 4/4
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:25:10
EID:f335 20295b20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6046374e
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f1e709
FR>> It's the message areas on his/her board that make me 
FR>> wonder.  If he/she is really the rabid fundy that we see 
FR>> here on HolySmoke, I wouldn't expect his/her BBS to have 
FR>> those forums. 

RJ> What I find unusual is that, in the two years I've been on
RJ> this echo, and of all the fundies whose BBSs anyone should
RJ> choose to call on a whim, why it would be the fundy with a
RJ> list of sexchat groups.

It was the fact that Miller's name appeared in the NodeList that
prompted my checking him out.

RJ> Of course, any accusation that JJ would've made the whole 
RJ> thing up was instantly nullified by Miller's immediate 
RJ> admission and subsequent backpedaling.

Which can only mean one of two things:

Either I am Christian Miller, or Miller was too stupid to
deny anything.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:37:10
EID:f5a2 20295ca0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6046699e
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f18e72
JH>> Members who had broken any of the thousands of rules (and 
JH>> this included small children, one young offender ate the 
JH>> "Commodore's" telex) were locked in the "anchor locker" 
JH>> with a small wire brush and told to clean the chain.

PS> Ugh. And if they refused?

Wouldn't happen. A literally unthinkable option. Membership on
Flag was a special honor, those who signed on for the "billion
year tour of duty" were not newbies off the street but persons
who had already been in the rank and file for years. If anyone
was going to refuse anything, they would have done it long before
they ever became a candidate for Flag.

And besides, in the event you were someone who had deliberately 
infiltrated the organization: you were at sea. Are you going to
walk home? Anyone that close to Hubbard couldn't have helped but
notice that he was crazy enough to toss you overboard (with
weights). That never happened, but only because it was never
necessary, I don't think Hubbard would have given it a second
thought if he felt the need.

So how is it that we know anything at all about life on Flag?
Hubbard was a paranoid. He was always finding people around
him that he felt needed to be drummed out of the organization.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 09 Jan 96  12:27:57
EID:a042 20296360
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6046c696
A> As for what career goal I have set for myself, that is 
A> nunya, but I will share anyhow.  (I am already grown, just 
A> getting some tuition togethr)  I woullike to have a career in 
A> electronics, but I am being strongly pulled toward my
A> favorite pastime-Writing.  



Writing, huh?
Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension first.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 09 Jan 96  12:31:08
EID:a042 202963e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6046c9a8
A> White_Punk_On_Dope Pagan, I think not.  I imbibe alcohol 
A> from time to time but I do not touch dope.  And how very 
A> stereotypical of you to label me a caucasian individual.  

I didn't.
I called you a punk.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Luke Clark
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religi
|Date: 09 Jan 96  18:14:28
EID:9c74 202991c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604a0487
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 30ef7b84
PS>> Define "white-lighter."

LC> New Age (Rhymes with Sewage) Crystal weenies, and certain 
LC> Wiccans.

My own first face-to-face encounter with "Crystal weenies" was
at a local Neo-pagan solstice festival, and they most genuinely
were Wiccans. (I could stomach some of that shit, but when they
started talking about their pretty rocks being "parts of Our
Mother's Body", I had to go puke in the bushes.)

The insistance that there is some unbreachable wall of seperation
between the two reminds me of the "WE ARE NOT GROUPIES!" line from
Frank Zappa's Live At The Fillmore album.

They dost protest too much.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Alan Hess
|Sub:  snow in the Bible?
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:56:18
EID:0040 2029b700
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604c913f
AH> Are blizzards and major snowstorms mentioned in the Bible, 
AH> or did God forget to create snow?

Yup.
About a dozen or so references.

One verse in Job even hints at the early Hebrew notion 
that God has a warehouse full of the stuff:

38:22  Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow?
or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, [...]

One of the apocryphal books named The Book of Enoch (there
are several books that claim to be the Book of Enoch, insist
on the One True Version) not only has the snow and rain being
stored in warehouses, but it has teams of angels who raise
and lower lightning bolts by means of a system of chains.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  coincidence screw up
|Date: 10 Jan 96  01:45:56
EID:6582 202a0da0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e1105
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30ea9929
LB> I have this image of there being a whole waiting room JUST 
LB> for people like this.  And God comes in, sighs, and says, 
LB> "This is the 101 class for all of you who COMPLETELY MISSED 
LB> THE POINT.  Let's try again....No, Maria, you should have 
LB> gone BEFORE you showed up....Christian, get the pencil out 
LB> of your nose and settle down,  Hector, you can't ROTFL me 
LB> before I open my mouth...."

(hand raised)  "What's a firmament?"



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  01:52:50
EID:597a 202a0e80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e2955
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 0eaf46f4
LSM>> Disease, like weeds and painful childbirth for humans is 
LSM>> the result of sin. 

RS> Disease is the result of microbes.

Infection is the result of microbes.
Disease is a deviation from normal function and is not 
limited to microbes as a causal agent.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Scot Bear
|Sub:  Re: AN INTERESTING SITUATION.
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:04:36
EID:9ca4 202a1080
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e440e
REPLY: 1:154/69.0 30eafb6e
SB> Hell, every echoarea needs a paranoid militia-type guy. We 
SB> have A.G- S. :|

They have militias down in Australia? I knew they had skinheads,
but wasn't aware that the US had begun exporting the militia
insanity to the rest of the world.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Monty Gibson
|Sub:  Re: Why
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:11:50
EID:494e 202a1160
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e58c4
MG> I was a high priest of wicca for 8 years and ran my own coven 
MG> for about 4 of those 8. 

Prove it.
Lets see your union card.

(Why is it that every paganoid, or claimed former paganoid, always 
has a fucking job title? Everyone's a fucking officer of some sort.
Where in the hell is the rank and file? They're all fucking Chiefs,
or perhaps I should say High-Chiefs, and there aint no Indians.)


ooOOoo
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  OPINION POLL
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:20:20
EID:e024 202a1280
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e80c8
JB> How can you say that? Sure, the 'gadgets' were a bit more basic, 
JB> but none of the other gadgets that came later would have been 
JB> possible without them. I'm talking about 2 in particular...the 
JB> wheel and the lever. I don't think the ancients that discovered 
JB> them considered them any more important than neat adjuncts 
JB> (gadgets).

Only until someone discovered their military potential. The lever in
particular spawned a rock flinging device that was a key weapon in
the mongol invasion, the spread of Islam and the Crusades.

Damned if I can find the name of the thing in my dictionary, but it
wasn't the catapault (whose importance has been greatly 
over emphasized by Hollywood).

Even the word "Engineer" comes originaly from those soldiers who
manned seige "machinery".

Want an idea or invention to spread rapidly around the world?
Find a way to kill people with it.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  RE: AN INTERESTING SITUA
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:36:52
EID:6f30 202a1480
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e886c
LC>> Fuck conformity.

AS> But it is the mark of an insane man to think he is right 
AS> while the rest of the world is wrong.

I cant find that in my copy of the DSM/IV.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  A DAY IN THE LIFE...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  02:39:58
EID:737f 202a14e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604e952f
AS> I got a generally beneficient feeling from the I Ching, a 
AS> generally maleficient feeling from the Tarot, but it was 
AS> probably just suggestion, since I Ching has no real connotations 
AS> to Western men, and some of the images on the Tarot cards do.

All the I Ching ever did for me was say:

"It will be advantageous to meet the Great Man.
There will be no error."

I've had fortune cookies that were more thought provoking
than that.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Linda Whitten
|Sub:  Re: Consider...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  03:22:46
EID:0bf4 202a1ac0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604f17f8
JH>> [Piano player stops playing, a hush falls over the saloon]

JH>> "Are yew sayin' I ain't a True HolySmoker?"

LW> If'n he is, he's dead wrong!  I enjoy your provocative 
LW> posts!

Durring my last call to Christian Miller's BBS, I had the oportunity
to chat on-line with him for about an hour.

He was genuinely puzzled (baffled would be an even better word) by
the proliferation of supposedly "non-religious" topics in this echo
(comics, old movies, anthropology, literature, cooking, radio,
railroading, Cleveland, etc).

The reason why I fit in with this echo and in almost no other
"topic dominated" echo is I can't talk about ANY of those subjects
and not have religious topics eventually work their way into the
dialog.

Next weeks topic: Gnostic Rosicrucianism and it's influences upon
the Eastern Region Timetable of the Fort Mudge and Fishbelly Railway
Company.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 10 Jan 96  03:47:36
EID:6c8d 202a1de0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604f3eb5
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30ecc250
LB> When my 10 year old was 4, she turned the dinner blessing into a 
LB> critique of the meal. "God, thanks for salad, but next time 
LB> could you ask Mom to buy French dressing?  And thanks for the 
LB> hamburgers we had last night. I'm thanking you again for those, 
LB> because tonight its lasagna and you KNOW I hate lasagna -- why'd 
LB> you invent lasagna noodles anyway?" (about this time I'm giving 
LB> a motherly little nudge) "Oh, well, God I've love to talk more 
LB> but I guess my Mom is starving to death, so I'll just say bless 
LB> the milkbreadsaladbeansbutnotthelasagneamen."

Does your church perform exorcisms?
There's something diabolical about anyone who hates lasagne.

(Unless it's low-fat, vegetarian, .78 calory per serving
Anti-lasagne.)

Now here's ...um... food for thought...
I grabbed the ol' dictionary to check my spelling of lasagn[e/a].
The word comes from the greek "lasanon", meaning "chamber pot".
Aint that some shit.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:15:32
EID:c3e0 202a21e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604f7e8d
REPLY: 1:271/460 30ed697a
KM> You can be in the train and it appears that everything else is 
KM> moving. You can be outside the train watching it and get the 
KM> feeling that you are moving instead of the train. 

You really should stay away from railroad tracks when you
are that drunk.

KM> If God made the earth stand still and the universe rotate 
KM> around it, it would be easy for him to alter the course of 
KM> the universe so that the sun hits a different section of 
KM> the earth for a different length of time to create the 
KM> different seasons.

I'm at a total loss for words.

But I had to quote this passage just in case someone missed it
first time around. But messages dont move through the network,
do they? The messages are stationary and it's the users who are
moving back and forth in a half-way meaningful pattern.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Fun with your new Spong
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:40:42
EID:6b9c 202a2500
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604fbc4d
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f2a772
RJ> Anyone call for "Dropkick Me Jesus Over the Goalpost of 
RJ> Life"?



Is that for real? Is so, post the lyrics!

And if it aint real, it sure as hell should be. I can already hear
it being sung by a chorus of mournfuly slow barotones while some
matronly old fart bangs away on a piano the only three chords she 
knows...

And then we could have the BoogyWoogy Rythm and Blues "Mass Choir"
version. It's no less stupid than most of the tunes that Shirley
Ceasar has turned into a goldmine. Except the song has to start
out with a monolog about an "old lady", first.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  04:50:32
EID:d32a 202a2640
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604fc28a
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f2a773
A>> I am humbly apologizing, oh mighty god-adorer.   

JH>> That's only the third atheist in a row you've accused of
JH>> being a theist.

JH>> Yet another White_Punk_On_Dope Pagan demonstrates that 
JH>> they are a complete idiot.

JH>> What are you planning on being when you grow up?

RJ> My guess is:  Maria Russell's Next Husband.

I kinda figured he was one of Maggy Kendall's four legged kids.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  ONE LAST COMMENT      01/
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:02:17
EID:5c53 202a2840
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 604fe1f9
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f2a75f
JH>> and under a high tension tower was the monument to "The 
JH>> White Legion". On the monument (your rather typical oblisk 
JH>> type city-park thing) is a plaque of obviously recent 
JH>> addition saying it's "dedicated to the dead on both sides" 
JH>> of Reconstruction violence.

JH>> (yeah, sure)

RJ> Diamond-flanked circumscribed cross anywhere to be seen?

I think there was a MagicMarker'd "White Power" on the backside
away from the street, but I chanced upon it after dark and didn't
go back during daylight to inspect it more closely for Klan


ooOOoo
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* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  The dust of the Grand Bartoo
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:15:01
EID:636f 202a29e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60500388
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f2a75e
JH>> Yeah, but I find Russ a rather likable cuss. He's comes off as 
JH>> an essentially honest person caught in a bewildering situation 
JH>> that has overwhelmed him. (He's the typical Philip K Dick 
JH>> protagonist.) Korntron, on the other hand has all the endearing 
JH>> properties of cockroach.  A dishonest cockroach.

RJ> I sometimes wonder if Bartoo is a True Believer , or
RJ> if he really is just a tinpot con-man.

I'll let Walt answer that in his own words:

"(WB) Hi Joe: Well the question was hokey anyway. To answer the
distance from Earth to Orion after recent information came out
that shocked scientist I would need a Cray Computer and this
distance because we are moving toward Orion at I think was
287 thousand miles per second in the article was impossible to
quote, wink without one. I'm open for donations thou."


ooOOoo
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* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  ONE LAST COMMENT      01/
|Date: 10 Jan 96  11:40:50
EID:75b5 202a5d00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6053953c
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 046b5354
RJ>>  The area around Madame Laveaux's grave is the worst.

KW> The victim was resisting a mugging.  Thank you for 
KW> reinforcing the warning, Robert.  If I ever do wander 
KW> through New Orleans I will be very cautious about visiting 
KW> the graveyards.

I'm still inclined to think the problem isn't the graveyards, per
se. But rather the public housing projects which are literally all
over the city. Houston's Allen Parkway Village, which the city has
been trying to demolish for over a decade is a fucking resort
compared to some of the projects in New Orleans. Wandering around
the entire city requires a fair degree of caution.



ooOOoo
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* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:45:00
EID:5f84 20288da0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E27
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  18:35, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa 

DW> I'm starting to think Staal is a troll.  Doesn't he ever *read* that
DW> Bible he thumps?

DC> Only the way he can:  Poorly.   I saw his "rebutal" on georges
DC> paraphrase.

JS> then you recgnize that DW is wrong in his assertion...?

I recognize that you misspelled "recgnize".  As to whether you 
are a troll or suffer from MPD is no big deal, as you have 
demonstrated the intelligence of a pre-school wannabe.  

... "Eye's a Anglish majjur, an I neber heard tha' werd".  Bro Jimmy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:50:00
EID:ed46 20288e40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E28
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  19:08, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa 

-> Re: CHURCHES
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Marty Leipzig <=-

ML> David Fisk is but one voice in a cosmic fugue.

JS> Martin...good doktor, I _love_ this. This is eloquence! As a musician,
JS> you spoke to me! I will archive this one! (I wonder what cosmic
JS> tacatta would be like...)

You would have done much better if you could figure out how to 
run your software and address the message to the proper party.  

All that it requires is that you read the documentation.  As 
an "English Major", you should find it easy.  

... Christianity: The Living Word of The Dead God On A Stick
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Conference Guidelines
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:57:00
EID:bf9c 20288f20
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E29
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-06-96  21:33, Fredric Rice got back to Styx Allum 

sa> [2] As is customary in echomail, private messages are not allowed.

FR> So, Styx, did you get that penile wart removed?

No, Christian Miller is still allowed to hang around...  

... Millions for chaos, not one cent for entropy.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  Re: Fucking gun nuts!
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:19:00
EID:1b56 20289260
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-04-96  17:21, J.j. Hitt got back to Scot Bear 

>>  the BBC. One thing about being a shortwave listener: I
SB> You an SWL? Me 2! 

JH> Yup.. been one since the early 70's.

That's when they were good!  Whatever happened to all those 
short wave bands?  Did they break up or just get bounced?     

... "Sa-tan's Lucky Charms....they're magically suspicious!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Lon S. Mabon
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:29:00
EID:3154 202893a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  03:29, Lon S. Mabon got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Your god hates evil, don't he?
LSM> Yes, He does.

DC> Then, why does not only allow his evil to exist, why did he create
DC> Satan in the first place?

LSM> Satan was at one time an arch angel, I believe. Angels are defined
in

And, a little ol' archangel is stronger than the god that created him! 


LSM> And much like Adam and the rest of creation Satan was created 'good'.

Says a lot for how fucked up your creator is.  

LSM> He did, however, lead a rebellion against God, suffered defeat under
LSM> the hand of Michael and the non-rebelling angels adn lost his place
in

Yet, you omnipotent god can get rid of him.  You worship a rather 
sickly twerp of a god.  

... Annoy a Christian: Ask them how many gods they believe in
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Sean Mccullough
|Sub:  ----
|Date: 09 Jan 96  08:45:00
EID:8bf1 202945a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-06-96  01:31, Sean Mccullough got back to Dan Ceppa 

> and a few others are, too.  I don't remeber in blondes in _The Ten
> Commandments_,

SM> Uff Da!! Ya, I am the LORD your God; ye shall not have any Gods before
SM> me, fer shure!!   :-)

Have you seen _10 Commandments_ recently?  It's actually a hoot!  
About the only character in there that fits a role is Yule Brenner.  

Every time I see Edward G. Robinson, I expect him to say, "Awwl 
raight, youse guys, dis is the way its done, see?"  

... You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  Top 1995CE Contributors
|Date: 09 Jan 96  08:59:00
EID:6466 20294760
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  14:54, David Rice got back to All 

DR> =================================
DR> AL SCHROEDER                 5778  Needs a daytime job other than HS
DR> Dan Ceppa                    5307  Could have tried harder.

I was trying to hold it down to a 100/wk.  Nearly made it!  

At the end, I think Al was happy to reply to less than 50 
a day...   

... Does Jimmy Swaggart read REPENThouse??
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Free Jim Staal!
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:17:00
EID:b053 20294a20
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-06-96  13:05, Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa 

FR> the East last morning, I would suspect him of lying.
FR> I wonder if he was capable of honesty _before_ he became a cultist.

From how he described it, I tend to doubt it.  


FR> All I saw was his "apology" for _stateing_ his opinion, not for
FR> holding it. If he apologized for the later, I will apologize to
FR> _him_ after I see a copy of it.

dc> That's all any of us saw.  He never stated any different 

FR> indicates that he either knows he's lying for now claiming he never
FR> said it else he honestly can't recall ever saying it.  My buck is on

Remember, he's off his meds.  I don't think he has even a tenous 
grasp of reality.  


dc> Naw, he's got his simpleton sibling, Lump,
dc> to defend his dishonor this time around.

FR> That's another thing I think he's lying about.  The fuck probably has
FR> no brother.  He posts under so many assumed names that he just can't
be

He's claiming he has a new GIF that shows him and his inbred 
brother in it.  If it's real, my guess is that it's his twin 
brother, born 18 years later, juding from the bullshit that 
they both spew.  

... Carbon XIV:  Revenge of the Covalent Conspiracy!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:20:00
EID:e1e7 20294a80
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E2F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  14:30, Robert Jackson got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> looks like he is learning the frustration of dealing with 
DC> the brain dead.  

RJ> than our standard crop--and I have to slump really low in
RJ> my chair to read what's on my screen while peeking through
RJ> my fingers.  It gets pretty damn irritating simply because

It is rather frightening to realize that they are coming 
through the school system.  Proble is, the school system 
atempts to accomodate their idiocy.  

RJ> they keep coming and coming and coming...there's really no
RJ> bottom to the Idiot Well, is there?

Maybe someday the well will finally go dry.  Unfortunately, the 
fundy masters continue to piss in it to keep the level up.  

... "Luke, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side." - Obi-Wan
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  Re: Married, Will Cheat
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:27:00
EID:6d5b 20294b60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E30
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-05-96  12:24, J.j. Hitt got back to Linda Whitten 

CM>> I was "lost" for a while, and as usual the Lord has 
CM>> brought me back to my senses REAL QUICK.  As of today, I 

JH> What just tickles me pink is he is under the impression that
JH> the "LORD" brought him back to his senses.

JH> Seems to me, he didn't change his act until after *I* logged
JH> onto his BBS and reported my findings here in the echo. 
JH> 
JH> (Eat your heart out God Dan, I'm a LORD now.)   

Congradulations!  Preston had to rise through the ranks and 
pass the tests.  You, OTOH, skipped all that and presented a 
senior thesis, with head on a platter...  


Sincerely yours, 


God Dan

... +Origin: TRICHMOSIASIS NETWORK: Kosher Bacon for Jesus!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  UNCLE ZETA WANTS YOU!
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:32:00
EID:c822 20294c00
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89000E31
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-07-96  06:02, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa 
-> Re: UNCLE ZETA WANTS YOU!
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Al Schroeder <=-

DC> "Remember the Crossimo!"  
DC> "Give Me the Head of John the Baptist" (Bring?)  

JB> "Is Sodom Burning?"

"How the West was Crossed"  
"The Legend of Davey Crossit" 
"A God Called Horse"  
"Catholic Balloo"  

... And now, for something completely different.....
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Re: ASKING SILLY QUESTIO
|Date: 08 Jan 96  16:06:08
EID:c4e6 202880c0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f17930
-=> Al Schroeder invoked ASKING SILLY QUESTION which summoned Dan Ceppa<=-
AS> Well, I have a friend, a Wiccan, who holds that ALL gods are
AS> true...that they are all masks mankind paints on the same being. I've
AS> told him before that would make God seriously schizophrenic. And that
AS> seems to be the logical outcome of the latter view.

Not neccesarily.He said that it HUMANS that do the painting, not 
"God".If god is some kind of underlying reality, then each persons
experience of it will probably be different.I'm sure that even
the fundies would agree that the no two people experience Jesus in
the same manner.


Luke


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 08 Jan 96  16:37:10
EID:5ad9 202884a0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18076
-=> Asmodeus invoked Re: Satanist which summoned Ryan Shaw<=-
As> ** Quoting Ryan Shaw to Asmodeus **
R> Asmodeus wrote in a message to ALL:
R> 
As> Satanism represents indulgence, instead of abstinence.  If you are a
As> Satanist, you view yourself as #1, above any God, so your #1 holiday
is
As> your birthday.  You celebrate man's carnal instincts and your
As> intellect, instead of denying these things as so may other 'holy'
As> religions force you to do.  Despite whatlies the church preaches, you
As> do not:  Harm animals, sacrifice babies/children, kill, etc...  You
do
As> not practise unnecessary violence. Rather, you simply seek vengeance
As> against those who have  wronged you.  


So your a LaVeyan Satanist then? 

As> sins, as the emotional, mental, or physical gratification.  If you are

Got this quote wrong.It is correctly "As they all lead to emotional,
mental, or physical gratification." 

As> then warp its meaning to suit themselves.  These people are drug users
As> and animal-butcherers and are partly responsible for my religion's bad
As> rap.  

"But they aren't TRUE Satanists!" ROFL!

As> This is not all of the forms, but I have neither the time nor the
As> resources to report them all.


You forgot Setianism.


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 08 Jan 96  16:41:12
EID:5ad9 20288520
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18168
-=> Asmodeus invoked Re: Satanist which summoned Preston Simpson<=-
As> ** Quoting Preston Simpson to Asmodeus **
As> Szandor LaVey, and leaf through it.  You'll see that Satanism isn't


HIS form of Satanism isn't about sacrifising animals.He doesn't represent
popular satanism as it is practiced among certain of todays youth.
Who are YOU to say that they aren't true satanists.

As> wholeheartedly.  I loved what the religion stood for, so instead of
As> having no religion, I adopted Satanism.  

Interestingly enough, that's how I adopted Thelema as my personal
philosophy.Have you ever read the "Book of the Law"?


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 08 Jan 96  16:48:14
EID:a9a4 20288600
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f1830e
-=> Fredric Rice invoked Satanist which summoned Asmodeus<=-
> Hey, any Satanists in this echo?  Not those cat-killing,
> drug-addicted fools

FR> Are there any of those?  All I have in my archives are 
FR> variations of Christianity mixed with Cuban and Columbian 
FR> religions doing stuff like that.

I've read some verified cases of this.They mostly consisted of
Drugs and readings of the Satanic bible, with some sex and animal
sacrifices thrown in.Occasionally they preformed rituals based on
what they have read in occult books.Crowley seems to be popular among
them, as well as Lovecraft and LaVey.


FR> Well, LaVey didn't include any deities in his rantings.  My 
FR> guess is you're religion is safe here but that you are 
FR> probably an endangered species... cyberlly speaking, of 
FR> course.  No "Satanist" seems willing to stay here for long 
FR> when he finds 'Smokers don't care about him.

I'm sort of a Satanist, in that I have performed 'satanic' rituals
in order to counteract the christian programming I was afflicted with.



Luke


... "...this isn't rocket science, it's brain surgery!" -- Monty Burns
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Re: THE ROTHSCHILD DYNAS
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:02:16
EID:cb9c 20288840
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18658
-=> J.j. Hitt invoked THE ROTHSCHILD DYNASTY 6/ which summoned Preston Simpson<=-
PS> Just think of it! Jews, Satanists, atheists, and nihilists, 
PS> all working together for a common cause! NOT!

JH> You left out the Freemasons, the United Nations, the Roman Catholic
JH> Church, the Federal Reserve, the Ku Klux Klan, Procter and Gamble,
JH> the ACLU and the entire population of Fargo, North Dakota.


And the Trilateral Commission, the Blue Council, MJ-12, the Aviary,
Democrats, Kissinger, JFK, the Egg Council, and the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latterday Saints.

Luke

"Do what thou wilt."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  Re: Top 1995CE Contribut
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:13:18
EID:308e 202889a0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f188ee
-=> David Rice invoked Top 1995CE Contributors which summoned All<=-
DR> Top 150 HOLYSMOKE contributors for the year 1995.
DR> Contributors using multiple names will not have an
DR> accurate message count.

DR> Who                         Count
DR> =================================
DR> Luke Clark                    311

"The Official Representative of the Global Nihilist Conspiracy."



Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religi
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:21:20
EID:b3ef 20288aa0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18ad0
-=> J.j. Hitt invoked Re: White-lighter Religio which summoned Asmodeus<=-
JH> What are you planning on being when you grow up?

I'm afraid that he IS grown up.


And what's the matter with being a White-Punk on Dope-Pagan?

Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Re: Antichrist Quiz
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:33:22
EID:4767 20288c20
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18da2
-=> John Prewett invoked Antichrist Quiz which summoned J.j. Hitt<=-
JP> J.J.,  anyone can see that then,  and now, 
JP> there many persons were and are "anti-Christ."

Was Crowley an "Anti-Christ"?


JP>   OK, bitch ! 


Bitch, bitch, bitch, that's all you do.


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: CONVICTION
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:36:24
EID:f9ad 20288c80
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18e58
-=> Fredric Rice invoked CONVICTION which summoned Richard Morrison<=-
FR> Sadly occultism isn't considered a mental dysfunction in 
FR> the United States. Yet we're working on it.  

I'd like to see you try and implement it.The ACLU would nail you
to the wall.Not to mention the Anti-ACLU that Pat Robertson started.

Eventually 
FR> humanity will outgrow the need to concoct deities and 
FR> anyone who professes to believe in deities will be looked 
FR> upon as equal to those who profess the belief in pixies and 
FR> sugar plum fairies.

Fred, that is WAY too optimistic.We'll blow ourselves to an atomic
hell before that happens, IMO.

So get your fun while you can.

Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Conviction
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:40:26
EID:f9ad 20288d00
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f18f4a
-=> Fredric Rice invoked Conviction which summoned Richard Morrison<=-
FR> I'm glad you don't even recognize the need for a quality 
FR> education.  One wonders why you're still a cultist, of 
FR> course.  Perhaps you recognize the need for a good 
FR> education yet feel that occultism is more important.

The trappings of Occultism (At least in the more general meaning
which is usually meant by the word) ARE pretty fun, especially if you
have a flair for dramatic.Creating rituals is also a fun way to express
creativity.Trance states can be interesting, as well.And, when it all
comes down to it, what matters other then having fun and being happy?

It's not like ANYTHING you or I will do will have any lasting effect
on the universe at large.People die.Monuments, countries, and empires
fall.Religions and other beliefs come and go.If your gonna die,
mise well have some fun!


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Re: Female Circumcision,
|Date: 08 Jan 96  17:45:28
EID:13b9 20288da0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f19078
-=> John Prewett invoked Female Circumcision, which summoned James Bethell<=-
JB> Greetings, Mimi! Demons made you run away screaming Female
JP> Do you make any distinction between sex between committed
JP> partners, 
JP> vice "casual" sex ?

No.

JP> Do you see any value in a child knowing the identity

JP> of his/her mother and father ?


JP> Society should cause uncommitted persons to feel "guilty"
JP> about having sex with each other,

JP> because SOCIETY as a whole is harmed by increased problems

JP> which unavoidably accompany increased numbers of children 

JP> raised without stable parents. 

If fundies would stop wailing against the "evils" of abortion
and contraception, the above wouldn't be much of a problem.If they
would stop teaching them that sex is 'evil' perhaps they would also
be more responsible.Teens often rebel.If their parents teach them
that sex is 'immoral' and the like, they would probably go around
engaging in it, just as other's do drugs and indulge in Satanism.

Luke

"Do what thou wilt."


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
SEEN-BY: 261/1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600
SEEN-BY: 261/3010 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82
SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114
SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Re: Fundamentalist Are I
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:07:30
EID:3067 202890e0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f195a2
-=> John Prewett invoked Fundamentalist Are In which summoned Dick Holm<=-
=> Quoting John Prewett to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
JP> Yea.  I'm biased against the major religious cult with a
JP> centuries old 
JP> [and currently practiced] record of imposing itself via carnal
JP> force 
JP> and secular law.   I'm biased against a religious cult that has
JP> a 
JP> record of MASS MURDER,  and which also boasts to never really
JP> change. 

Your biased against Christianity.

JP> I'm biased against a cult that by its vile, violent deeds,  has
JP> brought 
JP> tremendous slander against the name of Jesus Christ.  MOST of the
JP> hard  
JP> core slander of generic "Christians" which is routinely posted in
JP> 
JP> HOLYSMOKE is due to facts of ROMAN CATHOLIC history.

No need to resort to Catholocism, really.The bible often condemns itself,
and there are also the attrocities of Non-Catholics, both past and
present.The most brutal Witch and Heretic hunts took place in Germany,
that hotbed of protestantism, and one of the main targets were
catholocism.


JP> [then,  a lot of the same freaks that slander "Christianity",     
JP> will turn around and defend the RC cult that actually conducted
JP> most of the vile deeds/activities]


Catholocism sucks, and so does the Unholy Pop in Rome.It's responsible
for inflicting me with the programming that I'm still dealing with.
Don't worry, I've defended Protestantism before, against the catholics,
and have used the attrocities you cite against them.I've also
defended the Gnostics agains the Protestants AND Catholics.I'll
defend anything, as long as I get my point across, even though
usually my point is to show that nothing matters in the end.

DH> Your ignorance of the book of Revelation is also obvious. 

JP> Your blind, common stupidity is obvious. 

As is yours.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but
considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Mat.7:3




DH> There is no question that the "Great Whore" is Rome,
DH> or that the "beast" is the leader in Rome. 

JP> Yep.

DH> But there your knowledge moves from fact to fiction.

JP> Sheer opinion noted.

JP> What's really fictional are the papal claims.

JP> Do you believe the pope is the RULER of Jesus's Church

JP> as the current RC catechism [section 882, and more] asserts ?

JP> Or do you believe the pope is a usurper/imposter ?

Whether the Pope is the Ruler of Jesus' church is not the point. 
Whether a Particular catholic believes in Jesus IS the Point.
Do you really think that Jesus would be so Petty as to send you to hell
because you didn't attend the correct church? If they believe that
Jesus is the son of god, then they are christians.To condemn a person
because of how they pray or what church they belong to is one the vilest
vanities I've ever heard of.I don't think Jesus was the petty asshole
you portray him to be, John.

DH> The Rome of Revelation is not the church of Rome, 
DH> but the political entity of Rome, 
DH> and the leader is not the pope but the emperor Domitian.

JP> Your ridiculous opinion is noted.

Ah, the opinion of anybody who doesn't agree with you is Ridiculous.
According to the bible, you are in danger of hell fire now.


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Re: INTO.
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:51:32
EID:32f5 20289660
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f19ff4
-=> John Prewett invoked INTO. which summoned Al Schroeder<=-
-=> Quoting Rob Burcham to Al Schroeder <=-
-=> 
AS> Or I could come in dressed as a Roman Catholic Priest and see who
AS> would try to kill me, and I'd know he was John Prewitt.

JP> Your dishonest slander is noted.

I agree.Gargoyle-Snot would try to kill him too.




Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: John Prewett justifi
|Date: 08 Jan 96  18:54:34
EID:753f 202896c0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f1a0aa
-=> Fredric Rice invoked John Prewett justifies mu which summoned James
Bethell<=-
jb> but what "death cult" is this which you commonly referr
jb> to (and which I hope you have reason to referr to it as such)?

FR> Why is it that so many people feign ignorance when they 
FR> already suffer from an over abundance of it?

Wake up, Moron.

James hasn't been here too long, and he probably DOESN'T understand
what you're talking about.Besides, must you answer everything with an
insult? I seriously doubt you'd do that in real life, but then again,
I've never seen your dental records so I wouldn't know.


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Re: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 08 Jan 96  19:55:36
EID:ad40 20289ee0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f1aef8
-=> Al Schroeder invoked CHRISTOLOGY which summoned J.j. Hitt<=-
AS> Our church houses the homeless, feeds the homeless. sits up and talks
AS> with the homeless. We don't invite 'em to sing, a capella or not. And

The above is probably one of the best defences there IS for Christianity.
It can be a horrible weapon, but it can help as well.I wouldn't say
that it has helped more then it hurt, but I won't say that it has
hurt more than it harmed.


AS> you're right, a few of them don't need chemicals to see the pretty
AS> colors... 

I don't. 


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Re: CHURCHES
|Date: 08 Jan 96  20:00:38
EID:de4f 2028a000
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f1b026
-=> Al Schroeder invoked CHURCHES which summoned Sean Mccullough<=-
SM> Americans have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to free expression,
SM> INCLUDING THAT OF HATRED. 
SM> And that is as it should be -- everywhere.

AS> Then why do you say you would outlaw the teaching of Christianity if
AS> you could?




Using his Crowleyan logic, he must be making fun of people like
Fred Rice, who constantly rant about outlawing christianity.

Crowley wrote Pro-German propaganda in order to disgust the Allies to
take sides against the Axis, so I would guess by acting like an
extremist atheist, he is trying to get people disgusted at extreme
atheists.Which may well be true, because as he said "I'm not an atheist,
but I play one on Holy_Smoke".

I don't like Christianity, but I'd defend your right to practice it.


Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Re: Waco jury foreman co
|Date: 08 Jan 96  20:57:40
EID:e92e 2028a720
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f1bd84
-=> J.j. Hitt invoked Waco jury foreman coments which summoned David Worrell<=-
JH> No, but the "general strike" (work stoppage) continues to be 
JH> a workable tactic. It's what finally got the Shah out of Iran
JH> (only to be replaced by an even worse regime).

JH> Not as romantic as muskets and sabres, but it works.

But wouldn't the Military be the LEAST bit reluctant to open
fire on their own families?

Luke


... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Don Martin
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  OPINION POLL
|Date: 09 Jan 96  08:07:47
EID:b6a7 202940e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f39087
AL SCHROEDER said "OPINION POLL" to JUDITH BANDSMA, adding: 

JB> without them. I'm talking about 2 in particular...the wheel and the
JB> lever. I don't think the ancients that discovered them considered them
JB> any more important than neat adjuncts (gadgets).

AS> Hmmmm. Maybe I should have said, "Classical" instead of "ancient".
AS> The classic example is Hero, who invented a steam turbine which they
AS> used to open temple doors and as a toy, If someone with a real
AS> engineering mentality saw that he would have dreamed up applications
AS> and the whole ancient world would have been changed---classical world,
AS> whatever. But the whole mentality was different back then. They made
AS> no connection between abstract philosophy and DOING something with the
AS> knowledge. They thought it was beneath them. That was the work of
AS> artisans, and carpenters...not of thinkers.

I have long had a theory that all, or nearly all inventions
begin life as toys (the exceptions begining life as secret weapons):
the control devices of automatons of the 18th century being adapted
to control looms in the 19th and computers in the 20th, etc. But I
don't attribute the classic tendancy to leave things in the toy
stage to their mind set as much as to their economy. You don't NEED
a steam engine when you have slaves and oxen to grow your food and
prisoners to do your mining (they believed in hard labor sentencing
back then). Our economy depends upon labor saving machines, so we
have become very good at devising machines. It remains to be seen
whether a machine-based economic production (only practiced for a
couple of hundred years now) can support a stable society. The
ancients traded efficiency for full (if low level) employment; we
have made people obsolete. While individual governments and empires
fell in the ancient world for a variety of reasons, this basic system
of production prevailed for several thousand years, during which
time governmental collapse was relatively infrequent.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  ARK nut
|Date: 09 Jan 96  08:31:44
EID:5503 202943e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f39088
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30efc37c
David Worrell said "ARK nut" to Charles Rollins, adding: 

DW> If you had read {and understood} the article, you'd know this
DW> and wouldn't have embarrassed yourself in an international forum.) 

I suspect that this one embarasses himself in every forum he
enters, but that he is blessed in remaining blissfully unaware of
the fact.


Later, you say to Robert Jackson: 

DW>> The Armor of Stupidity includes an inertial nullifier - the train
DW>> will just bounce off.

RJ>         Speaking of morons with Christian "armor", whatever happened
RJ>         to that nice young "Truthsayer" boy?  He got dented pretty
RJ>         damn quick, eh?

DW> He must've bought his armor from K-Mart...

Another sad case of a bright, shining knight encountering the
electric can opener that is HolySmoke.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

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|From: Don Martin
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Female Circumcision, yet
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:01:28
EID:6f58 20294820
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f39089
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 601d9ba8
J.J. Hitt said "Female Circumcision, yet" to Don Martin, adding: 

DM> Much as I enjoy bashing both, I would attribute the difference 
DM> to the type of conquest. It seems to me that there are two basic 
DM> ones: the Warriors' conquest and the Farmers' conquest. 

JH> I've been giving this some thought. And it seems to me there is a
JH> third less common (but just as devastating) form. Conquest by
JH> refugees. Though it could be argued that this is a sub-set
JH> of the Farmer's invasion. What makes it different is that
JH> agriculture takes a back seat to a dire need to re-locate.

JH> Tiawan would be the best example in modern times. And in fairly
JH> recent pre-history we have the Polynesians being literally pushed 
JH> out to sea by the Vietnamese and Cambodians who were, in turn,
JH> displaced by the growing Chinese empire.

Conversely, it might be said that ALL Farmer's Invasions are a
sub-set of Refugee Invasions. As Oscar Handlin observes in his "The
Uprooted", people do not typically leave their native lands when
they have economic opportunities in those lands. The distinction
above between farmers and warriors is not more than one between
ordinary people and aristocrats: the first have to work for a
living, while the second need to find hands to do their work for
them. I suspect that the Anglo Saxons found the fertile acres of
England all the more attractive for being out of the beaten path of
Huns and other riffraff from the East.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  Zilliness Squared!
|Date: 09 Jan 96  10:09:37
EID:6182 20295120
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f3908a
REPLY: 1:271/320.0 30F06FF9
Glen Zilly said "Thanks for Response!" to Preston Simpson, adding: 

GZ> I know you must have some question about your religious beliefs or you
GZ> probably would not be on this forum. 

You presume a great deal without, apparently, having READ very
much of this forum. It is a shooting gallery. The fundies are the
little tin ducks here.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  PERSEVERE
|Date: 09 Jan 96  10:50:00
EID:03bb 20295640
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f3908b
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 3b96fbb3
Marilyn Burge said "PERSEVERE" to Judith Bandsma, adding: 

DM> If she holds one and needs an "Inspirational Tenor" soloist, I'm
DM> ready! (Have to borrow a polyester suit, though.)

JB> Black only...with a dark shirt buttoned to the top and no tie.

MB> The goofy grin!  Don't forget the goofy grin!!!

THAT, I can handle. I'll even take the stage name "Sonny
Beatific", if you like.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Don Martin
|To:   MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub:  FUNDAMENTALISM
|Date: 09 Jan 96  10:55:44
EID:6d70 202956e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f3908c
MARTY LEIPZIG said "FUNDAMENTALISM" to JUDITH BANDSMA, adding: 

SM> i with no c.....!)

ML> Tell that to Al Einstein.

JB> And then go weigh your neighbors, Leipzig. 

ML> Or the beings with the beige heifers, deigning and feigning
ML> to deify eighty-eight eiderdowned geishas; however heinously
ML> they were heisted.

Either would do.


Later, you say to DAVID WORRELL: 

DW>> Maybe Jim just doesn't consider tobacco to be "vegetation, seed
DW>> bearing plants."   Considering the relative intelligence,
DW>> Jim probably considers the tobacco plant to be a close cousin.

ML>      Which thoroughly offends every member of _Nicotiana tabacum_.

DW> Luckily for Jim, tobacco plants are not capable of using milk crates.

ML> But, they have bales...

Not really. Cotton has bales. Tobacco has hogsheads.


... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Don Martin
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 09 Jan 96  11:07:10
EID:0cc5 202958e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f3908d
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f135a3
Preston Simpson said "Thumb-sucking Fundy" to Andrew Masten, adding: 

PS> As time progressed, it became necessary to form societies, small bands
PS> of people living in the same area and contributing to the survival of
PS> the society. 

I really believe that we were social beings before we became
home sap sap and that both Hobbes and Rousseau were both wrong in
presuming that man was ever a solitary. I have precious little
evidence for this beyond the fact that most of the higher primates
(with the exception of the oranoutan) are social, and not merely so
in the sense of ants and bees: good parenting among chimps is pretty
obviously learned behavior, as is lousy parenting. Chimp societies
are very different from babboon societies, but the difference is not
much greater than that between those of normal people and those of
fundies (babboon society is the male chauvinist pig's dream); I
suspect that we are, as the DNA suggests, closer to the chimps in
our behavior.

Remains of pre-sap sap homo seem to suggest that these lived
and travelled in groups. Proto-tools show a similarity in "design"
(whether deliberate creations or the effect of collecting similar
shapes is unknown) that suggests a shared culture. Certainly, bee
hives show similarities, too, but once a species has passed a
cranial capacity sufficient to require pelvic changes in females, I
think it pretty clear that the similarities are likely to be the
product of thought rather than of hard-wiring.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0
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SEEN-BY: 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2230/118 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Jeff Burtnett
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  Re: UNCLE ZETA WANTS YOU!
|Date: 06 Jan 96  11:01:14
EID:0669 20265820
MSGID: 1:18/351 28090c03
TID: InterEcho 1.16 2-01-96
*** Quoting AL SCHROEDER from a message to JOHN MUSSELWHITE ***

AS> does it
AS>  really answer why Jesus didn't die from the wound in his side, which

AS> after
AS>  all, was it's whole purpose.

Well, just to address this portion of the message:  Jesus was already dead
when the centurion pierced his side with the spear.  Read the gospel of
John and his account of the crucifixion.  Take care!

Jeff

--- Telegard v2.99.Gamma-1
* Origin: The Shado\/\/ BBS (904) 263-2917...10:30pm-8am CST (1:18/351)
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 18/351 3670/3 3660/816 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Gary Glunz
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: origin of the earth
|Date: 10 Jan 96  03:03:00
EID:695b 202a1860
MSGID: 1:100/4.0 89005761
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0100
-=> Quoting Maria Russell to Gary Glunz <=-

-=>Gary, where will you be spending eternity? <=-

Probably in line somewhere waiting for some idiot to write
a personal check for a pack of smokes  :-)............

RM> Besides, if the "big bang" happened instead of a creator where did the
RM> elements come from that came together to cause the 'big bang'? 

GG> Elements were not involved in it.  They didn't form until after
GG> plasma was created.
MR> 
MR> How was the plasma created? And who [what] created it?

Plasma consists of free electrons and alpha particles ie., helium
nuclei.  These, in turn, coalesced from quarks - for the higher the
relative temperature, the smaller the maximum mass for said particle
(which is made up for by greater kinitic motion of particle - heat),
or so it seems to me.

Some theoreticians suggest an oscillating universe theory wherein
the universe expands, contracts, expands etc., and the idea has
gained some support since the discovery of the "missing mass" in
the form of neutrinos a few years back.  I do a lot of wondering
myself about it and also quite a bit of reading.

Gotta admit I don't know exactly how it all started, and it's
doubtful the real truth will ever be known, but I sure would like
to find out.

Got any ideas of your own?

MR> ... TOBG=This oughta be good

Well, at least it's a conscious attempt.   :-)


... Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: St. Louis Users Group BBS <> TOADNET 878-3029  (1:100/4.0)
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PATH: 100/4 525 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:14:48
EID:cc35 2029a1c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b0946
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 16d10f57
MB> That's the line for him.  His god has absolutely no trouble at 
MB> all doing the physically impossible (unless doing so would 
MB> save the innocent from suffering), but the logically 
MB> impossible is apparently entirely beyond him.  

I'm glad you see this.  Al has a great deal of difficulty seeing the problem
I have with being able to do one and not the other.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Kris OKelly
|Sub:  RE: GOD IS PURE EVIL!
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:16:57
EID:0c5a 2029a200
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b1324
REPLY: 1:279/14.3 30ee6908
KO> god is not Evil, he put us in this world to live in.. plus he 
KO> sent hus son jesus to die for un on the cross.. if god was so 
KO> bad first off he would of nevar put us on this earth... plus 
KO> god made man & women.. thay did not come from other stuff 
KO> like bugs & apes.. if you want, look in the bible.. thats my 


Your stinking god, if he exists, has sent a plaque to Africa which is starving
the people there.  He sent a viral plague to kill off human kind.  He sent
cancer, poverty, ignorance, and then tried to cover it up by making himself
all mighty with brain dead religionoids like you to cover his tracks.

Do not, for any reason, tell me that our problems are human derived.  Not
all of them are.  And in any case, your god could wave his hand and cure
the world's ills in a moment.  No one else need suffer the slwo agonizing
death of pancreatic cancer.

But then, of course, your god isn't around to do much for us.  He's a fake
and does not exist outside of yoru imagination.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: flood
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:20:52
EID:5d76 2029a280
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b1668
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30ee8390
MR>  I find it odd that most of the culture's "flood stories" are 
MR> rather similar, to me denoting ONE big flood.


Are you saying that you believe the biblical account of the great flood
literally?

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Hector Plasmic
|Sub:  Re: Buttheadism -- indirect evidence
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:23:21
EID:c9bb 2029a2e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b1d4c
MG>> Bevis and Butthead live.  I meet them both daily.
HP> Do you walk with them and talk with them upon life's narrow way, 
HP> perhaps?  :-)

They share the personas of my boss, the cafeteria checkout lady, the entire
personnel staff and purchasing as well.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  DIPSTICK SEES UFO...
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:36:09
EID:e76e 2029a480
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b399d
MG>> Little known fact...."Opera"
JB> I know. That's why I put it there. Well, I guess the fat lady 
JB> sang. 

I'm no lady.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Metafundy redux
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:45:57
EID:f98c 2029a5a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604b515f
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 0311e0f2
FR> This one reminds me of Stewart Harris.  Remember that one?  
FR> 

Did anyone ever discover just what it was that Stu invented that proved
that god existed?

--- msgedsq 2.1
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  DIPSTICK SEES UFO...
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:08:20
EID:3a60 2029b100
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604c1325
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f0a7d0
JB>>> Next time, just ask 'mr. english major' to give you the 
JB>>> plural of opus. 
MG>> Little known fact...."Opera"
RJ>         You mean, it's not..."Opie"?

More than one?  Andy's gonna be very confused.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:12:44
EID:9a93 2029b180
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 604c2447
AS>  "What if" is where ideas begin.

That's fine, but they don't prove anything.  "What if god exists" is your
premise.  You then go on to showing the evidence for existance if it's around.
"What if" is not something that you can send to a journal and have them
publish it.  that's what I'm interested in.

AS>  Luckily, Styx understood even an omnipotent being cannot do two 
AS> mutually  exclusive things at the same time.

I disagree.  You have already told me that you believe that a god can make
matter appear and disappear.  How is this different from a logical inconsistancy?

MG>>  I see no distinction between impossible logic and 
MG>> impossible physical feats. 

AS>  _I_ do, but I despair of trying to explain it in any other way, 
AS> since I  have tried to explain it several times before. Ah! 
AS> Okay. It is impossible  to go faster than the speed of light, 
AS> due to the restraints of relativity.  If you try to approach 
AS> c, your mass increases, and thus you have to work  harder to 
AS> go faster, until your mass becomes infinite, and thus you 
AS> never  reach c. Yet we can easily conceive of a Newtonian 
AS> universe where  acceleration was strictly linear and there 
AS> would be no restrictions on  going faster than the speed of 
AS> light. Okay? You see there is nothing  inherently illogical 
AS> in that, although I can think of some interesting  
AS> ramifications when you go past c. Okay?

But Al, your god can make hydrospheres of water appear and disappear.  This
is a physical impossibility.  don't you think that he could also allow something
to approach c without increased mass?

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:07
EID:f5be 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41ca7
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, David Worrell mumbled "COINCIDENCE SEVEN"

DW> 05 Jan 96 22:00, Preston Simpson wrote to David Worrell:

PS> 

DW> There's no need to be insulting - it was the best I could do within
DW> the limitations of the medium...  

The drawing was just fine, but it got kludged when I tried to quote it.




... Math and Alcohol don't mix. Please don't drink and derive.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:08
EID:63f2 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41ca8
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, David Worrell mumbled "Christmas"

KO>> well Jesus is the bese thing that ever happend to me!! in the
KO>> last

PS> How nice for you. You're making this Jesus fellow sound like a decent
PS> brand of coffee.

DW>   "We're here in this five star restaraunt where we've secretly
replaced
DW> the fine coffee they usually serve with the dust from Jesus' corpse.
DW> Let's see if anybody notices a difference." 

Customer:  What *is* this shit?

Announcer: That's the Jesus difference.


... "Bother," said Pooh as they all gathered for an orgy.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  GAY GENE
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:08
EID:b546 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41ca9
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, David Worrell mumbled "GAY GENE"

PS> So I had noted. This is a big reason why I try to avoid watching TV
at
PS> all.

DW> My TV died about a week before Christmas.  I started to take it to the

Did it have anything through the screen?

DW> repair shop, but decided there were other things I'd rather spend the
DW> money on. It's amazing how much extra I've accomplished in the last
DW> few weeks.  I don't think I'll ever take the damn thing in to get
DW> fixed. 

Productivity's gone up 150% or so? Good. I've got a TV in here with me,
but I almost never watch it. At best, I turn it on and listen to it while
churning out another of my literary masterpieces.

... "Bother," said the Borg, we assimilated a Pooh.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Lon S. Mabon
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:08
EID:7cab 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41caa
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Lon S. Mabon mumbled "Holiday Greetings..."

PS> An interesting claim. Support the claim that there was a global flood.
PS> Of course, you may not resort to the Bible. Get cracking, junior.

PS> And it still doesn't support the claim of a global flood. So why do
PS> you persist in believing a myth?

LSM> Myth!? I know of no 'myth' that I believe in.

If you can't substantiate it, it isn't a fact. As such, what you believe
is
a myth until you show it not to be.

PS> Doesn't keep you from failing, either.

LSM> True...but I keep trying.

And you keep failing.

LSM> Just because a person does not attain his set goals does not make him
LSM> a hypocrite, Preston.

It does when one claims the standard and violates it.

LSM> I take total responsibility for my failings. You last statement has
LSM> no foundation whatsoever. If anyting, the opposite is true:

PS> Then why do you keep sinning, sinner?

LSM> My human nature. The same one you possess.

Are you insinuating that I, someone who no longer follows your religion,
sin? Amusing. Sin is a religious concept. I haven't sinned since I was
a Christian.

PS> Define a "true Christian" and explain who made you God in the
PS> meantime.

LSM> A true Christian is one who not only claims the title, but desires
LSM> ever greater knowledge of the Word and who acts upon it to the best
of
LSM> his/her ability. Such a person knows that the Bible expressly forbids
LSM> wanton sinning after being saved 'that grace may abound'. God forbid!

And how do you know this to be true in anyone's case save your own? Only
the person involved and God really know for sure; the rest is guesswork.

PS> explain who made you God in the meantime.

LSM> Where would you even get such an idea?

Judging other Christians, for one.

... "Of course I'm a wizard, son.  I've got a tall pointy hat!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: ----
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:08
EID:0940 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cab
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: ----"

PS> Not to me. The idea that I am responsible for what I do, while
PS> awesome, is hardly frightening. It means that I have to act like a
PS> responsible human being, rather than expecting someone (or some god)
to
PS> take the fall for what I did.

MR> Taking responsibility also means being willing to admit that you do
MR> wrong things and make wrong decisions. Many aren't willing to admit
MR> that. 

And your point here is what, exactly? I was discussing me, not someone
else.


... You're nobody's fool. You're a freelancer.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: Abortion
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:08
EID:d334 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cac
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: Abortion"

MR> Not at all. There's been famines and pestilence since the beginning
of
MR> time. See Egypt in Old Testament. 

Then why are some Biblically-minded fools claiming that today's famines
and pestilences are special?


... I don't suffer from insanity.  I enjoy every minute of it.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: creation
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:09
EID:a221 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cae
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: creation"

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Fundy
PS> Follies!" 

PS> Life did not "suddenly" begin, Chuckles. 

MR> So you don't go for the "Big Bang" theory?

The Big Bang does not imply a sudden beginning for life. Are you really
this uneducated about the theory that you're trying to debunk?

PS> It was most likely the end
MR> ^^^^^^^^^^^       
PS> result of a long series of events.

MR> Which started from....What?

Who says it had to start from anything?

PS> Who created God?

MR> He has no beginning, thus no creation.

Dodge, Maria. If there had to be a starting place for everything, why does
there not have to be a starting place for God? What makes him special
enough to warrant this?

... TANSTAAFL - Grok?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: Infractions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:09
EID:a6f9 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41caf
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: Infractions"

RJ> You butt heads with Fred over his pitbull style of cheapshots,
RJ> then you go and issue a statement which is one of only two
RJ> infractions that can get you kicked off the FLAME echo?

MR> Where's there a moderator when you need one?
^^^^^^^
Stones and glass houses and all of that, Maria. Don't bother with
correcting Marilyn on her grammar if you can't get your own right.


... Creationist Nonsense Detected:  (S)ave, (D)elete, (L)augh like hell?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: origin of the earth
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:09
EID:203a 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: origin of the earth"

GG> Elements were not involved in it.  They didn't form until after
GG> plasma was created.

MR> How was the plasma created? And who [what] created it?

Who created God?


... The gods gave me a brain, not a Bible.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: origin of the universe
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:09
EID:94e3 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb1
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: origin of the universe"

MR> That all sounds jim dandy except for one question....how did this
MR> universe come into existence and how did the first cell of life come
MR> into existence? 

Evolution does not address the origin of life. I do not know how life came
into existence. I know of no one who does know. There have been plenty
of guesses and theories, but not a single one is yet known to be fact.
Not even yours.

How did the universe come into existence? I don't know that one either.
But I'll tell you this much: If you claim that everything had to come
from something, then that applies also to your god. Who created God,
Maria?

... "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" - Ockham
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  Re: talking critters
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:10
EID:f36a 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Maria Russell mumbled "Re: talking critters"

MR> (shaking head from side to side). Alan, before the heathens and pagans
MR> here get to you....Little Red Riding Hood, The Three Bears, and The
MR> Three Little Pigs are FICTION. You can write absolutely anything in
MR> fiction and NO ONE expects it to be true. OUR  premise, on the other
MR> hand, is that the BIBLE is true. Please don't put fiction in the same
MR> light as the Bible. It's apples and oranges. 

Doubtful at best. Fiction has no basis in reality, save historical fiction,
which is written within the context of a particular era.

The Bible is, as far as I've seen, a work of historical fiction. None of
the major events that it describes (the flood, the resurrection, etc.)
have been shown to have really happened. Not one. Do not make the mistake
of saying that comparing the Bible and fiction is comparing apples and
oranges. If the Bible is factual, you should be able to substantiate its
claims, yet you cannot in many areas.


... AD&D Quote:  "What do you mean I hit with negative damage?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Douglas Duke
|Sub:  those far-away minds
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:10
EID:d7ab 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb3
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Douglas Duke mumbled "those far-away minds"

DD> And, the Word of God was written by God, otherwise it would be
DD> the word of men.

How do you know that it's the word of God? (Please, for my sake and
yours, don't waste my time by quoting the Bible at me.)

... "This is no time for heroics!" - C-3PO
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   David Johnston
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians?  N
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:10
EID:bc8e 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb4
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, David Johnston mumbled "Homosexual Christians?
N"

-> So, I suppose I could then use the collected writings of H. P.
-> Lovecraft, Brian Lumley, Robert Howard, and other writers to bring
-> forth the Gospel of Cthulhu and have it preached as truth throughout
-> the land?

DJ> I say yea, brother!

And lo, on the tenth day of the first month, the prophet went forth in
the land, preaching the news of great Cthulhu and others of that
pantheon. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, for the people
did know that the end was near.


... "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Andrew Masten
|Sub:  Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:10
EID:205f 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb5
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Andrew Masten mumbled "Thumb-sucking Fundy"

AM> For years historians claimed there were no such people as the
AM> Hittites. Now there are few mueseums with out a artifact from the

For years, scientists claimed that the earth was flat. We now know
otherwise. What's your point? People make mistakes.

AM> Hittites. - A stone has been found with the house of David written on

A neat trick. How does one go about writing a house on something.

AM> it _ Time magazine recently published an article with startling new

Gee, I love how you fundies insist on using _Time_ as a resource. Got
anything from the _Weekly World News_, while we're at it?

AM> digs found that confirm the bibles history - Unlike other mythologies
AM> the Bible refers to real people real places - There hero's David,

So what? Historical fiction refers to real places and real people too.
Does that make it true?


... Cthulhu loves you...with an apple in your mouth.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Homosexual christians?  N
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:10
EID:4a57 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb6
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Gwenny the Pooh mumbled "Homosexual christians?
N"

PS> Are you telling me that you expect me to have a perfect memory about
PS> each and every message I've written here over the past few months?
PS> Get off it, Dick. I don't have an eidetic memory and I don't keep
PS> archives.

GtP> Looks like we got some fresh meat while I was hanging around flirting

We did indeed. Apparently, _Time_ magazine is being taken as an
authoritative source on historical and scientific info these days. Wish
someone had let us nasty ol' non-Christians know about this.

GtP> with the guys on AnimeNet.  Ahhhhh....just what I needed.  

Welcome to the jungle. Here's your flamethrower.

... I am Descartes of Borg: I assimilate, therefore I am.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Homosexual need freed
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:11
EID:e781 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb7
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "Homosexual need freed"

RJ> I'm blatantly chugging out oneliners now.  It's my '96 reso-
RJ> lution to make the FAQ this year.

PS> This will probably be the one that makes it in.

RJ> I think there's already one similar plug, so hopefully
RJ> it's grandfathered me out.

One may hope, but I think it got declared [OBSOLETE] as well.


... OPERA: A place where a guy gets stabbed in the back and sings about
it
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  ARK NUT
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:11
EID:7478 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb8
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "ARK NUT"

PS> The guy's an intellectual void. May he do us all the favor of not
PS> reproducing.

RJ> Problem with the morons is that they don't have the graymatter
RJ> to get much fun out of the lengthy pleasures of books and
RJ> hallucinogens--their little goldfish brains only have enough

"If it ain't got none of them thar purty pictures, I don' wanna read
it!"

RJ> attention span to enjoy fucking like rabbits, and as often as
RJ> possible because they forgot what it was like two minutes ago.

We can only hope that they'll get so fucking stupid that they'll forget
the basic "Insert Tab A into Slot B, repeat as necessary" litany.


... An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:11
EID:bc67 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cb9
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "Homosexual Christians"

ML> I think the kennel lost the records.

PS> Or perhaps he was the only example of spontaneous generation ever.
PS> What are your feelings on the matter? Myself, I vote for cowshit as
the
PS> mass that spawned him.

RJ> Stuff that grows in cowshit has mind-expanding possibilities.

So we need something more worthless. Toxic waste, maybe. Or pulped Bibles.

... DM Advice:  The only wands are those with 1 charge.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:11
EID:9877 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cba
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "Christmas"

> Chuckie Rollins must appreciate you posting from the same board--it
KO> ^^^^^^^ Charles you mean

PS> No, he meant "Chuckie."

RJ> In all fairness, I really meant to say "Chuckles".  Mea culpa.

It's okay. I was pretty sure you didn't mean "Charles."


... Plastic explosives will be appropriate when truth and logic fail.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:11
EID:f2db 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cbb
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Judith Bandsma mumbled "A LITTLE HELP FROM
SP"

PS> high iron count. My actual blood type is O positive, common enough that

JB> Most blood banks would kill to get my blood. I'm B-. Unfortunately I
JB> have such a high Rh titer that it could be deadly to give it to anyone
JB> who doesn't already have the same problem or, in the case of a female,
JB> is totally sterile.

Memphis is having something of a blood shortage above and beyond the usual
holiday deficit. Seems that we send all of our blood to New York for
testing, and this blizzard has kind of cut off our supply. I want to find
out who was responsible for *that* little bit of insanity and have 'em
roasted over a slow fire.

Memphis is a major distribution center, for Car's sake. Why should we
send our blood across the country to get it tested?


... Remember: being dead is no excuse for missing school!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Homosexual christian
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:12
EID:b459 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cbc
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Homosexual christian"

CM> James, I'm sure that you feel what you're saying is the truth.  My
CM> Bible  says that if you're not for God, you're AGAINST him.  Anything

Bully for him. I'm glad to be against anything that's evil, tyrannical,
and a detriment to the survival of the human race.


... Sacred cows make great hamburger.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Fundy Follies!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:12
EID:7f78 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cbd
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Fundy Follies!"

Gt> I live in a area that is like a peaceful park, and I NEVER FOR A 
Gt> MOMENT consider that that baby-killing, woman-hating, racist god you


CM> How is He any of the things above?

Numbers 31:17-18. The last of the Exodus plagues.

Your god is a murderer.





... "Great.  Just what we need.  A manic bard who can't sing."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: CHURCHES
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:12
EID:8b54 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cbe
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: CHURCHES"

PS> You owe me US$1.8 billion. Don't bother with asking me to support 
PS> this, I don't have time to waste on such piddly details. Pay up or 
PS> Vinnie and Guido will be visiting you soon.

CM> Vinnie?  What happened to Alfonzo?

I have not seen the money that you owe me. Pay up.



... "Well, well... it's the avenger.  The killer of killers."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Homosexual Christians?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:12
EID:c746 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Homosexual Christians?"

CM> The casting is done THROUGH the name of Jesus Christ.  The name which
CM> all knowledgable evil fears.
PS> And without Jesus, this would be impossible, would it not?

CM> What?  Did a cobweb come loose?  THROUGH Jesus' name.  If the one

And without Jesus, this would be impossible, would it not? Think before
you respond this time.


... "You write drivel unfit for a lightbulb commercial."--The Brain
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
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SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Abortion
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:13
EID:b5ef 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Abortion"

PS> 3.6 million cubic feet at most, not counting space needed for decking,
PS> supports, braces, food storage, plant storage, water storage, medical
PS> facilities, waste disposal facilities, et cetera. That's not enough
PS> space.

CM> This is what you feel.  The Bible describes the Ark in "cubits", I
CM> believe.

No, this is what I know. A cubit is defined as a length between 18 and
24 inches. Assuming that a cubit is 24 inches, the maximum volume of
the ark is 3.6 million cubic feet. All of the things listed above are
needed to keep the vessel afloat with sufficient hull integrity and to
keep its cargo alive during the flood. If those things are not there,
then the ark would either not survive or its cargo would die inside it.

PS> together? Why would the dinosaurs have died?

CM> Maybe because they couldn't fit in the ark. 

And here I was thinking that Noah was commanded to fit two of every
creature into the ark. Guess that the Bible's lying about that too.


... "I'm going to send you to a vivisectionist."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: profiles
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:13
EID:73de 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc4
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: profiles"

PS> I'm not an atheist, dimwit. I'm an agnostic.

CM> You're "ag"something...

Are you just too cowardly to insult me flat out?


... What color is the sky on your world?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Christians Corner
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:13
EID:ce2a 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc5
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Christians Corner"

CM> Preston, please see some one about all that anger you hold.  If it's
CM> not  a Christian counselling session, then atleast tell your friends.

Christian, you are the LAST person who needs to be giving me advice on
how I should go about living with myself. You are a disgrace to your
god, your religion, your species, your family, and yourself. I find you
to be a repugnant and worthless human being--and I write all of this
with not a single trace of anger.




... You can trust me.  I'm not a doctor.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Gods, not god
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:14
EID:6408 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc6
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Christian Miller mumbled "Re: Gods, not god"

Gt> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.

CM> Show your intelligence again, please.  It's not very smart to worship
CM> a rock.

The earth is not a rock, though worshipping a rock would make more sense
than worshipping an invisible and heretofore unevidenced god who kills
his creations.


... "Never frighten a little man. He'll kill you." -L. Long
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:14
EID:3687 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc8
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "A LITTLE HELP FROM
SP"

RJ> around with a needle in my arm unless I was in a hospital and
RJ> blasted out of my skull on Demeral.  I only got to the point

Demerol is some fun stuff. I know what I'm talking about--they gave
me a shot of it just before they yanked my wisdom teeth (all four
at once) and prescribed it in capsule form for post-op pain management.
It was wonderful, truly blissful.

RJ> Maybe if some big-breasted nurse kept me company...

The resulting blood pressure might make you have to stay there only
one hour. Or less. 

... "Yeah, I said the words. Sort of." -Ash
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:14
EID:3712 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cc9
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "White-lighter Religions"

PS> learning to explore things critically. In other words, you're like many
PS> other people your age.

RJ>   At least he shows the promise of growing up a bit.  Can't
RJ> say the same for the inveterate fundies, though.

This is true, but first we've got to get him to learn to *think*.


... AD&D Quote:  "You don't use saving throws?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  HS WEB PAGE
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:08:14
EID:e800 202a7900
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f41cca
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Robert Jackson mumbled "HS WEB PAGE"

JB> Nah! I was referring to the fact that ibuprophen, when taken for
JB> extended periods of time and in high dosages, tends to kill renal
JB> function. 

RJ> How 'bout aspirin?  I get chronic clusterfuck migranes, and

I don't get true migraines, but I get some really killer headaches.
My Tylenol dosage is up to 3000-3500 mg per sitting, as anything less
just doesn't do anything at all. I've quit taking Tylenol, though--it's
just not worth it when I can empty a 50 capsule bottle in a few days.
The first time I took seven extra-strength (500 mg capsules), I had
chest pains. My body has since adapted, though. I just build up tolerances
*way* too quickly.

... Some Ropes, A whip, A feather, A rubber duck - its party time!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Charles Rollins
|To:   Monty Gibson
|Sub:  Re: Cussing
|Date: 07 Jan 96  22:47:06
EID:37e3 2027b5e0
MSGID: 1:279/14.3 30f11e66
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8520
-=> Quoting Monty Gibson to Christian Miller <=-

MG> Christian,
MG> 
MG> Isn't there a rule for cussing and the like? Or is this an "all 
MG> rules thrown out the window" type situation? It would seem that no one
MG> can leave a nice message without a infamous cuss word. My.. how the

MG> vocabulary seems to boggle the collegate mind.
MG> 
MG> God Bless,
MG> Monty

Goes to show just of how little intelligence their small brains
contain..you would think the way they brag about how much they know,
they would also have an expanded vocabulary to get past the airhead
vocabulary of profanity..such a shame...I call them educated fools..




... McCOY:  I'll say one thing SPOCK, you never cease to amaze me!
---
* Origin: The Q-Continuum, Sissonville, WV (1:279/14.3)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 279/14 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Charles Rollins
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Re: God's dick
|Date: 08 Jan 96  00:28:45
EID:f1a2 20280380
MSGID: 1:279/14.3 30f11e6a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30e2811e
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8520
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Charles Rollins <=-


DM> Very good. Now pray give us some evidence of the existence of
DM> "internal spirits", along with some description thereof, and we'll
DM> have some notion of the nature of god.

Eccl 12:7

DM> One tiny problem remains, however. In order to HAVE an "only
DM> begotten son", a putz with which to do a little begetting would
DM> appear to be a necessity for that person. Or wasn't anybody begotten
DM> by god?

Not if you are a spirit with the power to create anything you want just
by speaking it.




... Does the Enterprise Computer run Windows?
---
* Origin: The Q-Continuum, Sissonville, WV (1:279/14.3)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 279/14 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Charles Rollins
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Re: Hey
|Date: 08 Jan 96  00:41:28
EID:8c97 20280520
MSGID: 1:279/14.3 30f11e6b
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 5f9b52f2
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8520
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Charles Rollins <=-

MG> Did you mean to say "are those that use their brains and question
MG> seemingly impossible things still around"?

No, I mean collegiate airheads who pride themselves in their use of
profanity and spiritual blindness which only serves to prove themselves
to be educated fools.





... Jean-Luc, I just love your new hairstyle! - Q
---
* Origin: The Q-Continuum, Sissonville, WV (1:279/14.3)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 279/14 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Charles Rollins
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Homosexian Christuals
|Date: 08 Jan 96  13:04:12
EID:28f2 20286880
MSGID: 1:279/14.3 30f11e72
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147e99
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8520
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Charles Rollins <=-

FR> Since we all know that your fictional deity constructs don't exist,
FR> it's enough that hate-filled Christanics use their occultism to
FR> justify their hatred. 

And your spiritual blindness to your own state forces you to justify
your hatred of Christians..I don't hate anyone..God and us can hate acts
but love the person..if you cannot see the difference you are more
blinder to the scriptures than I thought.

Research before you comment my friend.




... * - Tribble          ^*^ - Vulcan Tribble
---
* Origin: The Q-Continuum, Sissonville, WV (1:279/14.3)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 279/14 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Charles Rollins
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Why
|Date: 08 Jan 96  13:05:51
EID:a156 202868a0
MSGID: 1:279/14.3 30f11e73
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147e9a
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8520
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Charles Rollins <=-

FR> Only because no cultist is capable of actually defending their
FR> occultism in this forum.  One must go to a fellow cultist forum to
FR> have a chance at retaining any hope of belief.  This forum is for
FR> educated people, after all, not cultists.

You mean educated fools and airheads who are not even educated enough to
have an expanded libraray of vocabulary to choose the right words
instead of resorting to the profanity of uneducated beings.  Another
name is airheads.


cr> Some users here pride themselves of
cr> their use in profanity and Christian bashing.

FR> Just keep trying to convince yourself of that and you'll never have
to
FR> worry about having your occultism debunked. 

If you cannot see that in the unbelievers of this echo your spiritual
blindness is worse than first believed.




... May your gagh never wander off your plate - Klingon grace
---
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|From: David Johnston
|To:   Kenneth McAbee
|Sub:  Redacted Stories
|Date: 10 Jan 96  00:16:00
EID:680a 202a0200
-> I met a guy last night and invited him to church. He looked at me and
-> said with a sneer "Church" I said yes, church. He said with a sneer
-> "I don't believe what

You invited a total stranger to church?  What were you thinking?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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PATH: 342/14 61 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: David Johnston
|To:   Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub:  An Interesting Situation.
|Date: 10 Jan 96  01:12:00
EID:8d3f 202a0980
-> DH> "Myth" of the Holocaust?
-> I agree with you, but not with your filthy language.   The Spirit
-> that was in Moses is not is you. You really are quite vulgar. Your
-> language betrays

Moses was a man who lost his temper and beat a man to death.  He didn't
lighten up all that much as time went by, either.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
* Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)
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|From: David Johnston
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  Have A Happy
|Date: 10 Jan 96  01:16:00
EID:fe37 202a0a00
-> Actually, all of the guests break some of the rules, some more
-> egregiously than others. But to fairly enforce the rules, the host
-> would have to throw everybody out. He's planning a much better party
-> later, but he's only going to invite those those who admit they broke
-> some of the rules and ask him for forgiveness.

Why?  If they broke the rules once, they'll break them again.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
* Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)
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PATH: 342/14 61 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: David Johnston
|To:   Luke Clark
|Sub:  Re: An Interesting Situa
|Date: 10 Jan 96  01:18:00
EID:9acf 202a0a40
-> AS> But it is the mark of an insane man to think he is right while
-> the AS> rest of the world is wrong.
-> Jesus Christ felt that he was right and the rest of the world was
-> wrong.Was he insane?

Is anyone who thinks he's God?

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PATH: 342/14 61 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: I'M BACK
|Date: 09 Jan 96  16:33:04
EID:8752 20298420
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2d100
-=> Fredric Rice invoked I'M BACK which summoned James Bethell<=-
JB> SKYCLAD?????????? Better be in the south in
JB> the summer. You can bring the skeeter repellant.

jb> But anyways, I was talking about like the robes and charms I wear when
jb> I'm spellcasting. I would get a real kick out of seeing a bunch of
jb> witches sipping coffee with a bunch of Christians in their Sunday
jb> best's..

FR> How can you tell when a spell works?

When you achieve your desired end.All the magick in the world won't
do shit if you sit on your ass though.Magick is a way of focusing your
self on a desired goal, no supernatural mumbo jumbo needed (Even
though it DOES add some dramatic flair to it, though).Some of the
simplest examples of rituals I've seen consist mainly on focusing
on your goal for a certain amount of time, to let it 'sink in' that this
what you want to focus your self on.


FR> Oh man, I've got a few files which describe Christians 
FR> shooting at Pagans and Wiccans during festivals in the 
FR> woods.  Dragon Festival has also had problems with fundy 
FR> Christanics that were armed with firearms.

I've read of incidents of the fundies reaking havick on Wiccan rituals.
Iron Oak comes to mind.You seem knowledgable about this, Fred.Do you
have any updates on what's going on down there?

FR> Some of the newsletters David accumulated from Rowan 
FR> Moonstone's group also covered criminal investigations, as 
FR> I recall, of fundies who have shot at Pagans and Wiccans to 
FR> "save" them.

FR> Just like "the good old days."   

I've been threatened physically before, and called a "Devil worshipping
Atheist", what ever that may meen.But OF COURSE, their nice to fuzzy
bunny Wiccans.

Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 09 Jan 96  16:51:06
EID:5ad9 20298660
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2d53a
-=> Asmodeus invoked Re: Satanist which summoned Luke Clark<=-
As> You said before that you were a Thelemite.  If you wish to say, what
As> are your beliefs?  


I accept the philosophy out lined in the Liber AL vel Legis, in so
far as _I_ interpret it (Which, reading Crowley's comment on it, is
how it's supposed to be).

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

This out lines the basic right of the individual, to do their
will.Accepting this right also entails accepting the responsibility
of not interfering with the will of another, unless that person
has abrogated their right to do what they will (I.E., if some one
is trying to kill you, you can defend yourself as you see fit).
It's basically the quintessence of the rights we hold so sacred today
in the US.

Love is the law, love under will.

This love is an over all love of living, a joy of existence, of
being part of the universe.Love is under will, I.E. it is the force
driving it.The acts of will should be loving ones.

And when I refered to the drug addicted, animal
As> killers not being Satanists, I simply meant that I believe my religion
As> to be  better, so I call as
As> I see it.  

And how does that make you different then the fundies?


These people call themselves Satansts, but doing 
As> so is as correct as
As> those so-called Christians, whose actions show nothing of what they
As> say they believe in, like they think their bible applies to all except
As> them.  

You don't know shit about where your cult came from.LaVey's Satanism
is nothing but a rip off taken from the Writings of Crowley,
and to a certain extant, A.O. Spare.Nietzche also influence LaVey's
philosophy.The Teenage pop satanists are most likely closer to
"True" Satanism then you are.

I know many Satanic cults exist, but It is only my opinion that
As> they are inferior to my religion.  

And it is only my opinion that you are an asshole.

Perhaps this is Setian of me, but if
As> you know of anything that I believe in, you probably know that I view
As> myself as better than anyone else. 

Christianity wants YOU! 


Luke

"Do what thou wilt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  Re: Thanks for your Resp
|Date: 09 Jan 96  17:13:08
EID:471d 202989a0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2da64
-=> Glen Zilly invoked Thanks for your Response! which summoned Steve Rose<=-
GZ> Steve,

GZ> Thank you for your response! I'm not exactly sure how much of
GZ> my  article you read but from your response I can see that you do not

GZ> believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. 

You forgot to add the (TM).

Before we continue 
GZ> though I would like to ask you a few questions about your religious

GZ> beliefs. Are you or have you ever been involved in any religion? 

Thelema is my personal philosophy. 

Do believe there is a God, gods, or are you an atheist? 

I personally don't care, so I guess I'm an Agnostic. 

GZ> What do you believe about Jesus?

To quote the Nirvana "Jesus don't want me for sunbeam."


GZ> As for the facts I believe there is enough evidence to support 
GZ> that Jesus did indeed exist and was indeed a teacher. 

Perhaps.But that doesn't mean he was correct OR divine.

There is much 
GZ> evidence beyond the Biblical reference to support that He did what is
GZ> described in the Bible. 

Really? Like walk on water, raise the dead, and turn water into wine?

WHere is this evidence?

I don't think anyone disputes the fact that He
GZ> was crucified but people try to deny that He rose again. Have you ever
GZ> been to His tomb near Jerusalem? If you ever do go you'll find He's
GZ> not there. 

You really think that that is is tomb! ROFL!
And the Ark is on Ararat.
And the earth is flat.

GZ> now through Him I have hope at  eternal life. Jesus gives away the gift
GZ> of eternal life freely to all  those who accept Him as Lord and Savior.
GZ> To those who refuse Him comes  eternal suffering. 

Nice loving god, you have there.He screws up, and we have to pay for it.



GZ> the World. When you stand before God,  perhaps many years from now or
GZ> perhaps during this day, I pray that you have put your sins upon Jesus.

Jesus is a Masochist?

GZ> Jesus loves you more than anyone ever has or could and He wants to
GZ> save you, but you have to let Him do so. 
GZ> Peace be with you and God bless you.

"I love you but if you don't let me control you I'll make send you an
eternal burning Hell." That doesn't sound like love to me.It sounds
like extortion.


Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Re: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 09 Jan 96  17:18:10
EID:b16e 20298a40
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2db92
-=> Kenneth Mcabee invoked Thumb-sucking Fundy which summoned Fredric Rice<=-
KM> Sunday January 07 1996 10:38, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:

KM> Therefore I will tell you what Jesus 
KM> told Lucifer when Lucifer tried to get Jesus to tempt God. 

He couldn't have told Lucifer anything, as he was dead centuries
before Jesus was born.The epithet 'Lucifer' refers to the King of Babylon
during the time Isaiah was written, not to a fallen angel.Only current
APOSTATE theology, that has been tainted by PAGAN influences leads
you to believe other wise.


KM> Get thee behind me Satan.

Bend over.

KM> Come to think of it, where is the logic in trying to get 
KM> someone to follow your interpertation of a what you call a fairy tale?

He's not interpreting it, he's telling you EXACTLY what it says.
If you can weasle your way out of it with another verse, then that
shows your bible can support anything.


Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religi
|Date: 09 Jan 96  17:21:12
EID:cadf 20298aa0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2dc48
-=> Asmodeus invoked Re: White-lighter Religio which summoned Fredric Rice<=-
As> My name alone should tell you of my devilish
As> background. 


Then you don't know shit about Demonology.

Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Re: 2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 09 Jan 96  17:38:14
EID:afcf 20298cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2e046
-=> John Prewett invoked 2 SO, WHY GOD? which summoned Al Schroeder<=-
JP> Torquemada was a pope follower.  Not a Christ follower.

Damn, you take the Introduction to the King James bible literally,
don't you?


JP> To Christ followers the difference is significant.. 
JP> 

Especially to the ones with a special agenda.

JP> To heathens the difference is denied.

If they proclaim themselves christians, they have crucifix's in their
churchs (Not pictures of the pope), and they praise Jesus, I consider
them christians.If some one acts like you, then I'll call that person
an asshole.


JP> To man-pleasing, liberal, borderline apostate protestants,
JP> the difference is ignored. 

And to shit for brains, egomaniacs, who can't stand for tolerance,
the differance is created.


JP> Which cult ?    Roman Catholic ?  Or "Orthodox" ?

Christianity is a cult, John.You venerate a corpse.At least the Pope
followers follow a living person.


JP> What might He think of people who causually slander Christ
JP> 
JP> by insinuating mass murderers are guided by Christ
JP> [which is what one does when one speaks of mass murdering
JP> "Christians"] ? 

What might he think of assholes who preach a gospel of fear, and not
one of love, like you do John? 



AS> "Judge NOTHING before the time" Jim.

JP> Rev. 2:2 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, 
JP> and that you cannot endure evil men, and you put to the 
JP> test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, 
JP> and you found them to be false;

Which shows that the bible can be shown to support what ever your
current feddish is, whether it be tolerance or intolerance.

Luke



___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  Re: love
|Date: 09 Jan 96  17:44:16
EID:f883 20298d80
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2e1b0
-=> Michael Hardy invoked love which summoned Lynda Bustilloz<=-
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-

LB> Well, if you had to walk around in a metallic bra, you'd call it tight
LB> with a capital T, too!

MH> Hey, leave my private life out of this, OK? :-)

To quote Hector: "ROFL!"

Luke



___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Sean Mccullough
|Sub:  Re: abortion enslaves wo
|Date: 09 Jan 96  18:07:18
EID:cced 202990e0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2e716
-=> Sean Mccullough invoked abortion enslaves wom which summoned Alan Hess<=-
> Whilst masticating on , Steve Quarrella (1:124/9005)
> wrote to Alan Hess:

> SQ> Spank me!  I'm empty!  I need deities!

> I see - you want to be thor.  :-)

SM> This thread is getting harder and harder to Sif through......

Shut up, filthy Hoor!

Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Sean Mccullough
|Sub:  Re: Homosexual christian
|Date: 09 Jan 96  18:23:20
EID:2ed0 202992e0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2ead8
-=> Sean Mccullough invoked Homosexual christians?  N which summoned Preston
Simpson<=-
SM> Therefore, the term "Gospel of Cthulhu" is self-contradictory.  :-)

I don't know.There are people take this Cthulhy buisness seriously,
and to them, it WOULD be Good News.I don't know, it wouldn't be so bad.
You just have to get in Cthulhu's good graces.He'd need Worshippers,
anyway.Before he eats them.


Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: ONE LAST COMMENT
|Date: 09 Jan 96  18:26:22
EID:9982 20299340
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2eb8e
-=> Preston Simpson invoked ONE LAST COMMENT      01/ which summoned J.j.
Hitt<=-
PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, J.J. Hitt mumbled "ONE LAST COMMENT   

PS> 01/" 
JH> Ahh... my high school was but a block away from a large cemetary.
JH> It was a very popular place to go and get stoned while skipping
JH> classes.

PS> I'm not surprised. They're usually pretty peaceful. There are two
PS> fairly near my house.

The woods in between the School and the Dash-In is pretty popular
here.Then so is the SCHOOL, as I know people who've gone on acid
trips during lunch.Pretty funny, actually.




Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Sean Mccullough
|Sub:  Re: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 09 Jan 96  18:43:24
EID:11d5 20299560
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2ef8c
-=> Sean Mccullough invoked Thumb-sucking Fundy which summoned Alan Hess<=-
SM> The reason that Zeus is more powerful than the god of the 
SM> Christers is simple: Star Goat didn't eat Zeus. StarGoat 
SM> DID eat Yahweh/JHWH, and expelled him as a cloud of methane 
SM> gas and the Norse god WOTAN.


But we all know that Star Goat is just biding his time, for he knows
that Cthulhu will one day rise up and eat him.And then shall all
be as naught.Or at least that't what it says in the Necronomicon.


Luke
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  Re: YHWH
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:38:28
EID:60f6 20299cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2fc74
-=> Michael Hardy invoked Re: YHWH which summoned Luke Clark<=-
-=> Quoting Luke Clark to Michael Hardy <=-

MH> representation of God and the Old Testament's representation is
MH> exactly the same -- God saves and forgives those who ask him to, and
MH> judges those who remain defiant in their rejection of him.

LC> How do innocent little babies remain defiant of him?

MH> When did I ever say anything about babies?

God has ordered their death, according to the bible.Regardless
of what the situation was, how can a God who's very nature is love
even CONCIEVE of such an order.Surely an OMNIPOTENT and OMNICIENT
god could think of a better way to carry out it's will.
The bible was written by men, and the character of it's god reflects
that.The hebrews were constantly at war with their neighbors, and their
god reflects that.They also appropriated the mythology and religion
of neighboring cultures.In the Psalms, YHVH takes on the nature
of Baal, a local deity.Even the names of god were taken from other Cultures.
El is the name of a Pheonician Diety, Yahwey was originally a Volcanoe
god (His name even means 'Ever-Flowing'), and most of the Angel names
were taken from the names of pagan gods.



MH> Some passages from the Old Testament about God's mercy:

LC> Some other passages from the Old and New testament for your
LC> consideration.
LC>
LC> Amos 3:6-"Shall there be evil in city, and the lord hath not done
LC> it?"
LC> Your Lord IS the source of evil, according to the bible.

LC> 3 John 1:11-"he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

LC> So God hasn't seen himself.

MH> That's an archaic use of the word "evil." You're quoting King James,
MH> right? "Evil" used to have as one of its definitions any kind of
MH> calamity or disaster. That meaning seems to have faded. More modern
MH> translations use "disaster" instead.
MH> The Hebrew word is "ra," which means "adversity, affliction, bad,
MH> calamity," according to Strong's Hebrew and Greek Concordance. Not
MH> moral evil, as you suppose.

He still causes destruction, doesn't he? People still are killed, aren't

they? But, if that doesn't satisfy you...



LC> LC> As to your other examples, he was
MH> Merciful to those he liked, but LC> to his enemies, or those who
MH> didn't have a chance to know him, he was LC> a wrathful monster.

MH> Yes, those who make themselves his enemy, he will judge.

How do people who have never heard of him, make themselves his enemy? 
If people don't want anything to do with them, and just want
to die in peace, why doesn't he leave them alone? I have trouble
believing that god would be a petty asshole.



LC> And did not Jesus say that you should love your enemies?

MH> God does love his enemies. That's why he became a man and died on a
MH> cross -- so that all of his enemies would have the offer of his
MH> gracious mercy.

If they accepted Jesus they wouldn't BE his enemies, would they?
He wrote down who would and would not be saved before the earth
was created, according to revaltions.Ultimately, he decided that
he would create people who would be damned.How is this MY fault?
He knows if in the end I will or will not accept Jesus.
Free Will is a fascade according to your god.And if god decided
who and who would not be saved, doesn't that make him responsible
for the people he damns? They wouldn't have a choice, and is not
sin the resault of choice?





MH> He doesn't compel you to accept it. But it's there, anytime you
MH> choose to have it.

MH> Some choose to remain his enemy. And those seal their own fate.

I don't wish to be his enemy.I politely ask him to leave me alone.



Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  Re: Thanks for the Respo
|Date: 09 Jan 96  19:49:30
EID:6182 20299e20
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f2ff0a
-=> Glen Zilly invoked Thanks for the Response! which summoned Martin Goldberg<=-
GZ> 1. Do the contradictions you stated have relevancy to the belief that

GZ> Jesus Chritst is the Lord and Savior?

If the bible contradicts itself, why should I believe what it says
about Jesus?

GZ> 2. Could your contradictions, most of which were numerical
GZ> differences,  be a cause of poor translations from earlier texts?

If the bible is the inspired word of god, then poor translation
does mean a damn thing.If it is inspired of god, then god made a mistake.


GZ> One must let faith supercede reason if you are to truly to receive the
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GZ> gifts that a relationsip with Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior
GZ> brings. 

If there is no reason to have faith, why have faith.Without reason,
what makes a faith in Jesus better then a faith in Allah?


GZ> It is my prayer that you will realize this as well.

And I'll be praying to Cthulhu for you.I'll try and make sure
you get eaten last.


Luke

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Luke Clark
|To:   Eric Williams
|Sub:  Re: The Case for Jesus
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:18:32
EID:3515 2029a240
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30f305d8
-=> Eric Williams invoked The Case for Jesus which summoned Martin Goldberg<=-
EW> MGX Doesn't contradict itself?  How can you say that with a straight
EW> face? 
EW> Only if you consider the creation account(s), and the whole of the
EW> Pentateuch to be literal accounts of history....which they are not.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

II Timothy 3:16



Luke 


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  lawyers
|Date: 10 Jan 96  18:36:52
EID:988c 202a9480
MSGID: 1:124/9005 30f40768
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30f2c5fb
PID: GED3 2.5 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!

Martis dies January 09 1996, Dixit David Worrell ad Jesse Jones:

DW> Just out of curiousity, what kind of lawyer are you?

Probably not a very -competent- one.

DW>  Where'd you go to law school?

Same correctional facility for higher learning that I did, U of Michigan.

--- GoldED 2.50+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Leon Askin Fan Club - 214/412-8457 (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: James Bethell
|To:   Sean McCullough
|Sub:  Homosexual christian
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:09:02
EID:6e8d 20290120
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f2229e
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 01964b5a
>  ML> Next to the Sew Age section.

> Gee, that's pretty funny. Perhaps you were hoping that I were as easily
> rousted
> and offended as some of the other members of this echo? Sorry.

SM> No, not really.

Aw.

SM> Pronouncing "New Age" and "Sew Age" alike is a 
SM> "HolySmoke thing". And Dr. Leipzig was introducing you 
SM> to it!!

I like Dr. Leipzig. I don't know _why_ I would talk to him like that. Oh
well.



--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 353/710 719 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: James Bethell
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:10:56
EID:f20d 20290140
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f22310
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 30eb6133
JB> I know that feeling Luke. ;-)
JT>         Did you know that after about 2 generations of 
JT> heretics/pagans there
JT>  is a good chance that the third generation will 
JT> totally escape the influence
JT>  of the religion of the sacraficed god?

My god was not sacraficed; you are mistaking the Devine for Jesus. My god
did not feel the need to publically crucify (sp?) her own son. And I am
not second or third generation (atleast, not in this life). 

And I *DO* know a lot of Witches who are MULTI generation Wiccans - the
rest are first, such as myself.


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  I feel so all alone!
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:13:00
EID:45ca 202901a0
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f2238c
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 30eb6135
JT>         Don't forget Josh Talbot or Lucinda Chapman (my 
JT> mother she somtimes 
JT>  posts under my name... don't worry she has to say when 
JT> its her). There are
JT>  some more wiccans for ye.

You are a Wiccan? And yet you would mistake the Divine for Jesus? Or maybe
it was a simple error thinking that I was Christian.. unless you really
DO think that the Devine was a sacrafice..?


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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PATH: 353/710 719 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: James Bethell
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:14:12
EID:f232 202901c0
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f223d4
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 30eb6137
JT>         You know, for some reason some people have a 
JT> hard time believing me
JT>  when I tell them that is the witches basic belief. For 
JT> some reason they tend
JT>  to be worshipers of the sacraficed god. Odd isn't it???

I have a hard time making people believe that our people (Wiccans, pagans,
etc) are generally a more caring and loving bunch, and that we are not satan
worshippers. Oh well. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Re: -------
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:16:08
EID:7d22 20290200
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f22448
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9023e3bb
JB>feel so alone here.. ;)

KW> You aren't alone here.

Cool man.. right on.

KW>  * OLXWin 1.00a * Magick is Alive, and the Goddess is underfoot!

I like the tagline. 

BTW, just so ya'll know, I didn't run off and hide cause HS is too violent
for me (which I've come to the conclusion that others have done so in the
past), I am just having some troubles with my system.. my DOS partition
crashed on me, leaving me with nothing but my Linux partition and Minicom.


I'm working on setting up a board for Occultists, but I'm not sure weather
it will be for DOS or Linux. Oh well.. I wanna get HS into it - there are
a few people that I know would, if nothing else, enjoy reading it. 

Peace.


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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PATH: 353/710 719 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: James Bethell
|To:   Hector Plasmic
|Sub:  Re: Christmas
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:20:04
EID:ae7c 20290280
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f22534
REPLY: Fidonet#1:380/16 30ede35c
JB>.. that is your own opinion.

HP> Actually, it appears to be a statement of fact:  Styx is not aware of
HP> any gods that actually exist.

No offense to Styx - he has done a helluva job with the echo, but Hector
- do you accept everything which Styx believes as gospel?

JB> my goddess does not try to assimilate everyone in her name.

HP> Neither does Mickey Mouse.  Or Yahweh, for that matter -- it's folks
who
HP> profess to believe in Yahweh that try to do that.

I believe in the Devine Goddess. I do not try to assimilate all who are
not in her faith. Do you see what I mean?



--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   John Prewett
|Sub:  Female Circumcision,
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:23:10
EID:feec 202902e0
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f225ee
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD14C21B
JP>       Do you make any distinction between sex between committed partners,
JP>      vice "casual" sex ?

Yes, I do. But if you can go through your entire life only having sex with
one person, then A) You have a HELL of a lot more will power than I, and
B) You are missin out.  Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying "go cheat
on your wife, the best is still to come", but I'm saying that sex is not
a dirty thing. 

JP>      Do you see any value in a child knowing the identity
JP>              of his/her mother and father ?

I do, I most certainly do. As a "once would have been a father after a one
night stand but then she miscarried" person, I can tell you from experiance
that I do have a very strong belief in the child knowing his/her mother/father.
But by now you should know that there are assholes out there that will dump
his current lay cause she's late, and the best thing to do FOR that child
is to NOT get married. 

"Shit Happens" - it's so very true. If they hadn't had sex, it wouldn't
have happened, but hey, if I hadn't stepped out of my house and onto a curb
and gotten hit by a drunk driver (hypothetically speaking), then I wouldn't
have lost my leg. You can't go through life living in a box.

JP>      Society should cause uncommitted persons to feel "guilty"
JP>      about having sex with each other,
JP>      because SOCIETY as a whole is harmed by increased problems

If you consider children a problem, then YOU have a problem. Regardless
of how well off, all children are jewels, and should be treated as such,
weather they are from well to do middle class families or slums. That is
n/a

JP>     which unavoidably accompany increased numbers of children 
JP>     raised without stable parents. 

That, unfortunately, is life. ESPECIALLY in the 90's, with all of our wonderful
drugs and over-night re-habilitation clinics. You can smoke a rock one night,
hop into the clinic for the weekend, and you're over it, until you want
another one. We can't just say "Don't do it", we need to help those see.
Instil the right morals in your children, and they won't (usually) go wrong.


Promote responsability, not intervention.

Peace.


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  John Prewett justifies murder
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:31:02
EID:471f 202903e0
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f227c6
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 030c870b
FR> people.  No wonder his death cult has the history it does.

jb> Pardon my interruption

FR> You can't interrupt in a single-channel broadcast medium, James.

You were having a conversation; I wanted to pardon myself. They're called
'manners', and they date back long before either of our times.

jb> but what "death cult" is this which you commonly referr
jb> to (and which I hope you have reason to referr to it as such)?

FR> Why is it that so many people feign ignorance when they 
FR> already suffer from an over abundance of it?

Here's some food for thought: In an insane world, the sane would be considered
insane. 


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Sacred Cows in traff
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:32:38
EID:b345 20290400
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f22826
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 030c870c
FR> Once again, you can't interrupt an echo -- at least not 
FR> in a store-and-forward technology like FidoNet.  Anyone 
FR> may post messages into a forum provided the Moderator 
FR> deems it topical.

(see last message)

jb> A plane crashed right up by my house not to long ago

FR> I don't care.  Take it up with the FCC.   };-}

I didn't expect you to care. If I expected you to care, I would hae mailed
it to you (and BTW, I did take it up with them. )


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SCREW UP
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:34:18
EID:270f 20290440
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f2288a
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 030c870d
FR> He or she is a heathen out trolling, quite probably.  
FR> Check out his or her BBS and you'll see that his system 
FR> isn't what one would consider typical of Christians -- 
FR> not with the sex chat forums and all.

I hae to agree with ya there. :) Even if he DOESN'T read those messages,
which he claims is the truth, that doesn't mean he should condone an act
which is against his god. 

Hey, for once we're in agreement. :)



--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  What's a "fundy?"
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:36:38
EID:9cd6 20290480
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f22916
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147ead
FR> and one, as I recall, fundy Wiccan.

FR> Cool!  We've got a few Wiccans and neo-Pagans in this
FR> forum.  My brother's a Witch.  (And he probably drinks
jb> thought it might be a kewl parody on everyone else's. Mine is actually
jb> james.bethell@f710.n353.fidonet.org .. just incase you cared.

FR> I know.  I sent your system network mail.  Did you get it?

Ummmm.. OH, ya, and I replied. Did _you_ get it?

jb> Nice point number.. 

FR> A fundy asked me about it some time ago, complaining 
FR> about why I would use it since I don't believe in the 
FR> mythologies behind it.  (Except that I know Nero was 
FR> the "beast.")  I told him that I use it because the 
FR> number is frightening to fundies.

Good for you! :) I like it.


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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|From: James Bethell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Winter Solstice
|Date: 09 Jan 96  00:39:00
EID:1b12 202904e0
MSGID: 1:353/710.0 30f229a4
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 03147eae
jb> Eggnog" and "Gingerbread Witches". 

FR> My!  Those sound so EVIL!  

Ya, I thought it would be a nice pun. ;)

jb> *SiGH*

FR> Well I'm on call for work every day reguardless of 
FR> whether it's a national holiday or not.  If you have 
FR> difficulty getting religious holidays, you could offer 
FR> to work during the holiday's that you don't subscribe 
FR> to.

.. except that my boss is a bonna-fide Christian, and it's closed on Christmas
day. Oh well.. I've got seniority, I can take it. ;)

FR> My quotes file has over 700.  Mike experiences these 
FR> little melt downs about every three or four months.  He 
FR> really can't help himself.  He tries to behave and 
FR> depict what he thinks is a "true Christian" attitude 
FR> but his real self just can't help but show through the 
FR> false sugar coating.

It's really rather amusing.. really funny to read, at very least.

FR> That's going to be a _lot_ of work, don't you think?  I 
FR> like the idea because I know some people come back two 
FR> years later to deny something and I've often wished 
FR> that I archived them.  Steve Q. is going to start 
FR> archiving Staal and I'm going to start archiving Jesse 
FR> Jones.  If you're interested in tailoring the number of 
FR> archives you do, how about coordinating your efforts 
FR> with us? We haven't started yet but we could form an 
FR> official HolySmoke Central Archive Committee.

It *WAS* a lot of work.. I just plain didn't have the hard drive space to
support it. 

Well if there's someone I figure I can pick on.. CHRISTIAN! Christian Miller
is my little archie dude. Heh. Once I get my system back on its feet and
Fidonet coming in, I'll do that.



--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Digital Encounters * Kamloops BC Canada 604/374-6168 (1:353/710)
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PATH: 353/710 719 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  11:47:10
EID:0c8c 202a5de0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4566d
JB> One of the reasons I dropped FLAME long ago. How the hell can you up
JB> with a snappy insult if you can't be sure of what you're replying to?

That's one surefire way to make me skip someone's posts--if
they can't parse worth a shit.  I'm not going to sit there
for any length of time beyond by normal reading speed, just
to decipher a bunch of words which seem thrown down at random.

JB> Proust I've never tried. And now I probably never will. 

I think the main reason I don't want to try "A la recherche
du temps perdu" is that it's in six volumes.  I don't like
*anyone* enough as a _person_, much less as a writer, to read
six volumes of them talking about themself.

... Hawaiian father's proverb:  One man's meat is another man's poi, son.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  ACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK
|Date: 10 Jan 96  11:52:24
EID:373b 202a5e80
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4566e
JB> ... "Scattered Showers, my A**!"....Noah

KO> Well Judith,
RJ> Well, Kris, do you know how to start a sentence without the

JB> Well, Robert! 
JB> You forgot to hit him about changing my words in what he quoted.
JB> (Don't worry, I did it for you). The rest was really good, though. 

I didn't even notice that until yesterday, when you pointed
it out.  Another point I didn't address was the "arguing with
taglines" syndrome.

... Some people still think you need shaving cream to use Occam's Razor.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 10 Jan 96  11:54:20
EID:2d03 202a5ec0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4566f
DW> Have you ever read _Silverlock_, by John Myers Myers?  (No that is not
DW> a typo of any sort).  It's not a "Really Big Book", but I think you'd
DW> enjoy it. 

RJ> What's it about?

AS> No description will fit. But I second David's recommendation.

He seemed to encapsulate the main theme, AFAIK.

... Acapulco Gold--Just A Stony Three Hits Longer!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 10 Jan 96  13:46:45
EID:9914 202a6dc0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45670
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 88FF11B0
-> On 01-06-96  07:19, Kris Okelly got back to Robert Jackson 

> Chuckie Rollins must appreciate you posting from the same board--it
KO> ^^^^^^^ Charles you mean

DC> That was a typo.  He meant to write "Chuckles".  

You are correct, sir!

... If I have any belief, it is that faith is a dangerous thing.     --RBJ
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  mustard seeds
|Date: 10 Jan 96  13:56:41
EID:f1c9 202a6f00
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45671
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 88FF11B8
MR> There is NO part of that verse that even hints to "ask of my father
in
MR> my name". And there is not "faith SMALLER than a mustard seed." In
MR> otherwords, it's saying it only takes a little faith to "move
MR> mountains". 

DC> Now, there's this mountain I can see out my back window.  As your 
DC> brain is nearly as large as a mustard seed, please demonstrate your

DC> power and move it out of my way.  

Nonbelievers often shake their heads over this little phrase,
but what you must realize is this:

Someone with even a "mustard seed" of faith possesses the
rejection of logic which allows them to say, "OK, I moved it."
The skeptic will proceed to bash the head of said twit against
said mountainside (which is VERY MUCH still in exactly the same
spot it was) until blood pours from their head.  But with that
mustard seed of faith, the twit still has been able to deny,
even to their now seriously abused senses, that they indeed
moved that mountain.  Any subsequent damage to their body is,
of course, "God's will" and "a miracle"--what with their head
being slammed against a whole lotta nuttin'.

Anyone who still insists the deathcult myth is true despite a
mountain of evidence to the contrary---hey, WAIT!  THAT is the
mountain they're talking about!  A little bit of faith will
move a mountain of logic which debunks their religion--out of
their little fantasy world.

... Creationism:  cretinism augmented by an Alpha (a) and an Omega (o)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  OPINION POLL
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:15:02
EID:761c 202a99e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45672
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f1ebba
PS> "Oh, another steam engine. How *utterly* fascinating, Hero. Hook it
up
PS> to the temple doors or something, won't you?"

AS> EXACTLY! Someone could have taken Hero's steam turbine and start
AS> really exploring it, its uses, its applications. But to them it was
AS> just a toy. 

PS> The steamboat and other marvels of the Industrial Revolution were at
PS> their fingertips. I wonder if much of Greece being mountains had
PS> anything to do with their failure to exploit this.

It seems much of the Greek problem with exploiting mechanical
devices had a lot to do with their intense bigotry and obsession
with status.  Mechanical devices were what _slaves_ used in
their labor--and the Greek aristos were intellectually molded
by such mystics as Pythagoras and Plato, who were more interested
in matters of the "soul" than the "body".  They weren't inter-
ested in even something as ingenious as an Archimedes screw
except to order a slave to turn the crank of one.  Archimedes
himself really found no fascination with any of the devices he
built--they were just things to be utilized.

... Quaker threat: Pardon, brother--thou standst where I'm about to shoot.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  dipstick sees UFO...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:15:02
EID:daa4 202a99e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45673
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f1ebc7
PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "dipstick sees UFO..."

JS> behaving in the manner expected. My life credo: call me a thief, I'll
JS> behave like one. (I am selective about this so don't bother getting

PS> What a cop-out.

PS> Yes, you say you're selective about this--but all that shows is that
PS> you're no more a Christian than I am. It shows only that you're a

I liked when someone told him, "OK, you're gay."

It's hilarious that he says he's "selective about this."  I
guess that means he'll be a thief if someone calls him one,
but he won't be gay.  Of course, what this indicates to me
is that he'd really LIKE to be a thief, wifebeater, fornicator,
etc., but his god won't tell him to.  However, it seems mere
*people* are able to command him where his god cannot.

How does a supposedly extant merciful god allow people this
stupid to crawl the earth?

... Well do you, punk?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  14:45:18
EID:8f03 202a75a0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45674
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 30f23cdf
RC> Now you're insulting our noble simian cousins.  No, we and the apes
RC> and monkeys and lemurs all evolved from insectiverous tree-shrews,
RC> which is why Fundies have this tendency toward shrewishness.  Well,
RC> that and their colourful butts like mandrills, too.   

DM> Now hold on--I only suggested how a fundy resembles an ape: the
DM> real insult to simians would have been showing how an ape resembles
DM> a fundy.

The polyester clothes fit about as well as they do on chimps.

... fundamentalism (n.): fund = give cash to; amentalism = brainlessness
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Gods, not god
|Date: 10 Jan 96  14:49:40
EID:677e 202a7620
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45675
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1c538
GtP> Heilsa, William!

WC>> The gods you referenced are false. I.E., they are not what they are
WC>> represented as.

GtP> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.

Why worship?  No one ever wants to give me an answer.

... Give a man a beer, he'll drink for a minute; teach a man to brew...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Samhain old shit/4
|Date: 10 Jan 96  14:57:39
EID:464e 202a7720
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45676
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1dbd5
GtP> Ya know, Wild and I were just discussing how easy we women have it
.  Our lives are divided up nicely by the cycles of our bodies....menarch,
GtP> motherhood, menopause.  Men don't have any nice little guidelines to
GtP> when their lives are changing. 

Yeah we do.  When we're making a six-figure income and we
dump the wife of 12 years and buy a red Ferrari, we know
we've hit middle age.

... Support the coyote habitat..abandon cats in the country.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Samhain old shit/4
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:23:10
EID:464e 202a7ae0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45677
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1dbd5
GtP> Heilsa, Lynda!

GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Lynda say to Sue:

LB> "It" isn't even an "it", is it?  I understand that a Book of Shadows
is
LB> like a personal journal/cookbook or whatever, and pretty much includes
LB> whatever the individual finds important enough to include.

GtP> Yes, you are correct.  We have two....a family one and one just for
us
GtP> girls ?  The family one contains chants and rituals of family
GtP> significance....like our handfasting.  The "girl" one has the rituals
GtP> we don't let the men come to...like "womaning" (done just after a
GtP> girl's first period) and "croning" done after a woman has gone for
GtP> thirteen moons without a period. 

Why the need for separate ceremonies/rituals?  Don't the
Mormons do stuff like that, but for men instead of women,
i.e., ceremonies that the other sex is excluded from?  

... I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Bible Follies
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:38:42
EID:9429 202a7cc0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45678
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30f2bf54
PS> Well, *I* didn't. It was my Honors Death and Dying prof. She's an
PS> ex-nun who's a riot to listen to in class. I dunno if she gave him a
PS> buck or not.

I had a sociology class taught by an ex-nun--she was a pretty
good teacher.  Although she didn't do this lecture, I heard she
was (in)famous for one on language, where she began the class
by writing the word FUCK in huge block letters on the blackboard.

I could just imagine the pseudo-proper bowheads in that class
pretending they never heard of such a thing, objecting to the
discussion on "moral grounds".  But then, that's what it's
like going to college in the buckle of the Babble Belt.

... I think the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   John Passaniti
|Sub:  LET'S RUMBLE!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  15:50:48
EID:ae04 202a7e40
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45679
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 03978971
>      Well, after being kicked off of the a_theist bulletin,
> I have finally been given access to HOLYSMOKE.

JP> You were probably "kicked off" A_THEIST because that conference
JP> isn't about theological issues.  As the moderator says, they "don't
do
JP> gods" in A_THEIST.  You (and I) can wish the moderator chose a better
JP> name for his conference, but he didn't. It is your responsibility to
JP> find out what is off-topic in a conference yourself; assumptions based
JP> on the name of the conference can be wrong. 

> Please, anyone with a comment on Christianity or theology,
> please respond. I, for one think that Jesus is Lord of
> ALL!! I want to talk about it.

JP> Jesus is way cool.  My dog is sick so I prayed really hard that
JP> Scruffy would get better.  Sure enough, Scruffy puked out whatever was
JP> making him sick.  And while some people looked at the puke and saw
JP> just a mass of semi-digested food, hair, and whatever else was inside
JP> him, I saw the face of Jesus.  It was as clear as day! 
JP> There is no greater confirmation of faith that to see the source
JP> of all salvation in something so base as dog vomit.  It was so
JP> beautiful I thought I would cry.  Since then, I've seen Jesus in many
JP> other places-- a wino who urinated in the snow made a lovely yellow
JP> portrait of Jesus on the cross.  A piece of meat that fell behind the
JP> dumpster and was covered in maggots looked just like Jesus.  And of
JP> course, I've probably mentioned it before in this conference, but the
JP> last time I wanked-off, the pattern of ejaculate that landed on the
JP> bed showed Jesus, complete with a white halo. 

JP> Jesus is the best!  You're on a winning team when you pick Jesus!
JP> Jesus makes all your food taste yummier!  Jesus makes your plants
JP> grow taller!  Jesus keeps your fridge frost-free! Mix Jesus with some
JP> baking soda and peppermint extract, and he makes an excellent
JP> toothpaste!  And, if you are having problems with math in school,
JP> Jesus can help there too-- as long as the answer involves the numbers
JP> 3, 12, or 40. 

JP> Jesus rocks!  If you listen to the last two albums from Front
JP> 242, you can hear Jesus's awesome guitar work.  And he's no slouch
JP> when it comes to the keyboard either-- listen to Jesus's excellent use
JP> of samples and chord textures on the first Skinny Puppy album. 
JP> I find Jesus sexy, but then I like guys with long hair. Check out
JP> that hard body in depictions of him on the cross.  Let your eyes
JP> caress his body, running down his firm chest, over his sensuous legs,
JP> and teasing you with that powerful bulge lurking underneath that
JP> loincloth. 

JP> I'M INTOXICATED WITH JESUS!  I'M BLISSED-OUT OF MY MIND ON JESUS!
JP> I'M FUCKED-UP ON JESUS AND WANT TO OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY!  PULL ME
JP> OVER OFFICER, I'M DRIVING WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF JESUS!  JESUS
JP> IS BETTER THAN THE BEST CHEESE YOU HAVE EVER TASTED!  JESUS DOESN'T
JP> REQUIRE A CHILD-PROOF CAP! JESUS ALWAYS HAS AN AMUSING ANCEDOTE! 
JP> JESUS CAN REPAIR MOST CONSUMER ELECTRONICS! 

JP> In a word... JESUS!

I rarely quote an entire post to tack on a oneliner reply,
so I'll try to make this run at least three.  That was a pretty
good pitch.  Is Jesus available in six-packs?  In New & Improved
Ultra-White?  On CD?  At Sam's Wholesale Club?

... Excuse me, I gotta go kill a Care Bear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:15:04
EID:5eea 202a99e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567a
REPLY: 1:280/9 04931ae5
JS>  I find this quite interesting that Al would think that for the sake
of
JS>  a 'good deed' this heinous blasphemer (M. Leipzig), brutal abuser of
JS>  those who profess God's name would be spared eternal damnation. Not
a
JS>  shred of scripture to support this apostate theory.

RB> You wouldn't be disappointed if Marty was spared eternal damnation,
RB> would you, Jim?

I understand a quote by the "esteemed" Thomas Aquinas is
something along the lines of "part of the joy of Heaven is
watching the suffering of heathens in Hell."

Funny how something like that sticks out.  There's a loving
religion for ya.  At the very least, just think of the sort
of people who join something calling itself a loving religion
who find that a selling point.

... "N" could be a vowel if enough people just believed in it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Judgement
|Date: 10 Jan 96  16:15:34
EID:e3a4 202a81e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567b
REPLY: 1:271/460 30f29f7c
KM> Monday January 08 1996 18:06, Alan Hess mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:

KM>> Keep on, there's a being named Lucifer that might be interested
KM>> in what you saying. But he too one day will bow his knees before
KM>> God and declare that Christ is LORD.

AH> Sorry, your Jesus has to wait in a long line behind Zeus, Apollo, and
AH> loads of other Supreme Beings that were invented before your Jesus was.

KM> Alan,
KM> Sorry Alan, but Jesus was the one that created everything.

So you believe Jesus WAS the "demiurge"?  The one who created
evil and Satan, or at least the conditions for evil to thrive?
The one who told a nation to slay every last Canaanite, man,
woman, and child--and rape their virgins?

Why did Jesus suddenly decide to flip-flop on being a right royal
bastard 2000 years ago?

... The floggings will continue until morale improves.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  Thanks for response!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  16:20:52
EID:a989 202a8280
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567c
REPLY: 1:271/320.0 30F2B2D5
GZ> there is  any substance to them. I would like to encourage you as I
do
GZ> everyone to stop reading the Bible to find contradictions and start
GZ> reading it to  learn how to use it in your daily life.I believe it will
GZ> be more  worthwile for you. Now let's get started on your
GZ> contradictions. 

When the claim is made that the Bible is inerrant, it naturally
follows that people have a moral DUTY to find contradictions
in the text.  That claim requires only one contradiction to
nullify the statement.

Later in your rebuttal, you dismissed one of David's points by
saying "the lifespan of Terah [sic] is irrelevant."  Why, in
particular would that be the case?  Does said lifespan cause
one of your arguments to disintegrate if you apply it?

... "Violence never solved anything." --Genghis Khan
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  OPINION POLL
|Date: 10 Jan 96  16:29:34
EID:0d78 202a83a0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567d
AS> The classic example is Hero, who invented a steam turbine which they
AS> used to open temple doors and as a toy, If someone with a real

JB> Or the Chinese, who invented gunpowder and used it for pretty displays
JB> in the sky. Would that it had only stayed a method for entertainment.

The Chinese used rockets to scare the hell out of their enemies
in battle.  They flipped a coin with the Scottish, who lost on
the turn and got stuck with the bagpipes.

... "N" could be a vowel if enough people just believed in it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  PERCEPTION OF THE SPI
|Date: 10 Jan 96  16:38:47
EID:e0d1 202a84c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567e
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9730e819
CM>Guys like me prefer their wife.

CM>Christian
KW> 
KW> How many men share your wife?  'Guys' and 'their' are plural, wife is
KW> singular.  Did you mean this to read that your wife is currently wife
KW> to more than one man? :)

That would explain "Married, Will Cheat".

... OK, I admit it--_I_ was the one who made those crop circles in England
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  2 HOLYSMOKE.FAQ.AB
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:08:13
EID:2502 202a8900
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f4567f
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30f317b0
JS> A sure sign of a problem with a 'christian' in this echo is when they
JS> begin to use the word 'we' when posting to you something negative.

MR> Oh, she's a Christian? Oh, "we" didn't know that

JS> Yes, I understood that from several conversations I had with her
JS> before she began her current 'let's suck up to the atheist blasphemers
JS> just to be accepted' routine. She has shown in the past to be a nice
JS> person, though there is less evidence of that of late...

JS>  ! Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413  (1:228/45)

Within two weeks of your debut here, I knew this sort of thing
would become common.  I'm merely surprised it took them this long.

... They call 'em "roachclips" because "potholder" was taken.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:10:12
EID:6b11 202a8940
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45680
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30f317b2
MR> Excellent post!

JS> Thankyou. I know of no way to support a 'partially true' Bible. It
JS> either all stands as one (which it does), or falls apart when you
JS> take one part out of it.

So then, when did it fall apart?  325, in Nicea, or 1611
with the publication of the KJV?

MR> I do hope you are a literalist and not an interpretist

JS> I am an inerrantist. II Timothy 3:16 with emphasis on the 'all'.
JS> I don't know what an 'Interpretist' is, but I believe scripture (with
JS> the guidance of the Holy Spirit through prayer) from cover to cover
is
JS> it's own interpreter...

Gotcher se'f a fanclub there, Jimbo.  Mebbe she'll let you
smack 'er 'round a bit if you think she gets out of line.

... Religious error:  (A)tone  (R)epent  (I)mmolate?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Believe On Jesus Christ!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:52:52
EID:3fb6 202a8e80
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45681
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30f317b3
DW> I know you're to fucking stupid to open a dictionary to find the
DW> meaning of an unfamiliar word.
JS> Man! Hee hee-ee. I sure pulled a _lot_ of chains with that one, didn't

Y'know, Jimbo--I've been thinking of taking up Christianity
lately.  I've been getting a little loose with my tongue with
a few people and it's caused a bit of trouble.  I understand
that when one takes up this faith of yours, because of so many
doctrinal and textual errors the believer encounters daily, they
teach you all sorts of dances on how to cover your tracks through
Creative Backpedaling.  I'd REALLY like to learn how to say things
after the fact that are designed to convince people:  1) I never
said any such thing;  2) that I only said it as a joke because it
would piss off people I don't like.  That's a communication trait
I think would enable me to go far in life.

Could you give me the name and address of the exceptional pastor
under whose feet you studied?  I may become a believer just yet.

Until then, shithead, I and everyone else on this echo with more
glial cells than pondscum will make sure every stupid-assed comment
you make will come back to haunt you as long as you participate
here.  Orestes and the Wandering Jew will both look upon you with
pity and sigh, "Ere but for the grace of God..." because of the
scourges and jeers you will endure for each misstep you take.
You HAVE no sense of humor, so just stop trying to pretend you do.
You are a sloppy, slackass thinker, and you will either get your
head rewired well enough to communicate in the realm of sentient
beings, or you will slam your fat piehole shut and endure the
gauntlet in silence each time you fuck up, without your cheap
little excuses, denials, and a posteriori "witticism".  Savvy that?

For your edification, you will find the words:  glial, jeer,
sentient, gauntlet, a posteriori, and witticism in your dictionary.
You might also find references to Orestes and the Wandering Jew,
who are characters from literature, in there as well--though you
might consider consulting an encyclopedia to get a better idea
of the references as they apply to you.
... You're like an idiot savant, only without the savant part.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  HUCKSTERS
|Date: 10 Jan 96  18:17:17
EID:da3e 202a9220
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45682
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30f35423
LB> On the subject of the majority of those who attend revivals, I would
LB> say that it sounds like you give back fair return for their
LB> "donations", Maria's conniption aside.  When you left, they felt good
LB> about themselves, both for having attended such an "uplifting" event,
LB> and for helping out someone they thought was in need.  Not a bad trade
LB> off.  I don't go to the carnival without expecting to pay a certain

IMO, that *is* a ripoff.  The fact they made these people happy
about forking over money--some really can't afford it--is where
the real CRIME is committed.  More than the money, hucksters
bilk people out of their dignity.  And _because_ the mark is
left happy, they'll happily give over more and more money.

LB> amount for the rides and booths -- if it is a 2000% markup on the
LB> prices, or the BIG prizes aren't actually winnable, that doesn't really
LB> matter.  I know what I'm willing to spend, and if I can say I had a
LB> good time after, I don't really care whether or not those at the
LB> carnival "conned" me out of my money.  I got what I paid for.

When Swaggart and Bakker et al con $100 out of some 80-yo
woman on a fixed income, but the woman is happy, even if that
means she has to hit up Medicare for next month's oxygen tank,
is that not criminal?
A single father with six kids is willing to take out a loan to
give to his god--because his preacher/pastor/televangelist has
him convinced of the Next Kingdom, where everything will be taken
care of.  He knows he'll be in debt to the bank for 25 years
because he wants to send some bibles to Africa--that makes him
happy to do God's work.  And because he's such a generous con-
tributor, the church/ministry figures they've got an endless
fountain of money to hit up for any and every halfbaked project
they need the green stuff for.  So he gets lots of flyers in the
mail about what a wonderful Christian Soldier who would want to
do more of the Lord's work he is.  The deeper in debt he goes,
the happier he is, because he's been led to believe it's going
to make his reward greater in Heaven.

Is THAT not criminal?


... If I have any belief, it is that faith is a dangerous thing.     --RBJ
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Robert Jackson
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  Ritualized cannibalism?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  18:40:32
EID:4f0c 202a9500
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 30f45683
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30f35425
LB> "Take, eat, this is my Body, which is given for you.  Do this in
LB> remembrance of me."

LB> "Drink ye all of this; for tis is my Blood of the New Covenant, which
LB> is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.  Whenever
you
LB> drink it, do this for the remembrance of me."

MR> And if this is the passage being referred to then it is a ludicrous
MR> remark. It is obvious NO one was eatting the body of Jesus nor
MR> drinking his blood.  The Lord's table is a time of rememberance of his
MR> death...PERIOD. 

LB> I agree.  I was simply explaining to you the nature of the accusation
LB> of "ritualized cannibalism" as you requested.

LB> I can't say it's exactly "ludicrous" -- early Christians apparently
LB> DID see the Sacraments as literally becoming the Body and Blood --
LB> enough so that early critics called their practice cannibalistic (you

But why, of all symbolisms, would he call bread and wine his
body and blood?  Why _deliberately_ make anatomical analogies?
Why would he take food and call it representation of his corporeal
existence, which he then urged his followers to *eat*?  Why not
something more akin to "I've *specially* blessed this meal,
it's got a bit of magic in it."--why not something like that,
instead of "Eat me"?

As I understand, there was some sort of cryptocannibalistic
tradition in the Semitic cultures--I can't remember who it was
here that wrote of it, but perhaps they might be reading this.
And, dating back even further, various pagan cultures in the
Med Sea area believed one could gain attributes of a dead relative
or leader by eating their flesh.

... Cannibalism:  see Eucharist  (from Diderot's Encyclopedia)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  UFO AREA 51
|Date: 09 Jan 96  15:24:00
EID:7e6b 20297b00
-=> Quoting David Rice to Douglas Duke <=-

DR> So. . . . See Big Foot around lately?

I understand Staal is still posting. Why? Did you lose him again? You
really have to be more careful with your playthings, David.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 372/911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3603/361 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/1 25 48 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  NUT CASE #326522
|Date: 09 Jan 96  15:26:00
EID:d18a 20297b40
-=> Quoting David Rice to Judith Bandsma <=-

DR> Doug: "There's a four-lane superhighway going 12 miles up the
DR> mountain!"

Do you call someone who builds a 12 mile highway up a 9 mile mountain,
an airhead?


... Now, Here's John Bobbitt with a few words about Crazy Glue.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 372/911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3603/361 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/1 25 48 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  WHITE-LIGHTER RELIGIO
|Date: 09 Jan 96  15:48:00
EID:ce28 20297e00
-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Asmodeus <=-

PS> You do not strike me as such. You come across as a young,
PS> inexperienced person who while possibly intelligent has gotten hung
up

He strikes me as the flip side of Joanna Amren.


... "Faith, begorra, and oy veh!" -- Irving McGregor, the Leprecohen

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 372/911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3603/361 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/1 25 48 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   All
|Sub:  Python trivia
|Date: 10 Jan 96  05:40:00
EID:5906 202a2d00
Ok, Python fans. I've got a question that I really want the answer to.
I've been playing with my 'Monty Python's Complete Waste of Time' and
can't get any farther in the game until I answer the question 'Who ate
Crunchy Frog?' And I don't have a clue.

Helpme!!!!!! Who ate Crunchy Frog?

... And now for something totally tasteless.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 372/911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3603/361 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/1 25 48 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  forgiveness available
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:14
EID:4244 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b7e
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "forgiveness available"

-=> Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JIM STAAL <=-

JS> Nah...I was at the local large Schuler's Books tonight
JS> and...heesh...what a bunch of geeks and dweebs! Losers! Especially in
JS> and around the metaphysics section. Guffaw!

ML> I see you added to the biomass.

JS> Huh!?

Never mind. You weren't erudite enough to catch it.


... Crisis management works beautifully until an actual crisis occurs.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:15
EID:fc4a 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b80
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "2 SO, WHY GOD?"

ML> Nope. Just as you seem not to have a problem with being a
ML> poltroon.

JS> Poltroon, eh? Stand up and look me in the face when you say that,
JS> MISTER Leipzig! (rent-a-MILKCRATE [TM])

Leipzig is about as tall as you are. He can say it to your face without
having to resort to your infamous milkcrate.

ML> Even with all your aliases?

JS> Name one that wasn't intentionally obvious? You have been here longer
JS> than I so there was no intent to fool ya...

A good thing too, since you couldn't fool anyone.

ML> Nothing personal, mind you.

JS> Are you sure? Sounded personal...

Boo-hoo. Everybody's picking on poor little Jimmy again.

JS> True...I was always popular for providing the Aces for those who
JS> actually did the assignments...

I'll bet you were. And what assignments would those be? Fingerpainting?



... AD&D Quote:  "I didn't think *ANYTHING* did 40-400 hp damage..."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  A Visit 2/4
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:15
EID:082b 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b81
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "A Visit 2/4"

LC> Oh well, he can't be worse then Wilbur Whately.

JS> Though I despise the thought of exposing my ignorance once again...but
JS> who is this Wilbur Whately?

Never mind. You wouldn't understand the reference, as it comes from
literature that you're probably too cowardly to read (Then again,
one doubts whether you could *understand* those erudite writings,
but that is another matter).

... If anyone finds anything bigger than your ego, I hope they shoot it.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Fundamentalist Are I
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:15
EID:a9fc 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b82
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "Fundamentalist Are I"

LC> Ecclesiastes 3:19 "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth
LC> beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth
LC> the other; so that man hath no preeminence above a beast"

JS> First off, let's put this  archaic quote into English:

That *is* English, Staal. Your problem if you can't read it.

JS> (Eccl 3:19 NIV)  Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same
JS> fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the
JS> same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is
JS> meaningless.                                        ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
^^^^^^^^^^^

From whence cometh this last, Staal? It doesn't appear in the version of
Ecclesiastes 3:19 that Luke quoted and it doesn't appear in mine.


... Fundamentalism: "By sword or by cross." America's Homegrown Deathcult.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  2 HOLYSMOKE.FAQ.AB
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:15
EID:929c 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b83
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "2 HOLYSMOKE.FAQ.AB"

MR> Oh, she's a Christian? Oh, "we" didn't know that

JS> Yes, I understood that from several conversations I had with her
JS> before she began her current 'let's suck up to the atheist blasphemers

I can understand how you might be jealous of those more tolerant and
erudite than yourself, but how is displaying reasonableness and a
willingness to learn and to think in any way "sucking up" to anybody?


... "This is some fucked-up repugnant shit."-- Jules, _Pulp Fiction_
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:16
EID:26fd 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b84
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "Fundamentalists R Us"

JS> I am an inerrantist. II Timothy 3:16 with emphasis on the 'all'.

Damned shame about the flood not being real, then.


... I don't cheat - I play by the extended rules.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
SEEN-BY: 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207
SEEN-BY: 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910
SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Believe On Jesus Christ!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:16
EID:b812 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b85
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "Believe On Jesus Christ!"

JS> Dave, Dave Dave, Dave, _Dave_...tsk. Llike...you don't even know me
at
JS> all, do you...?

DW> I know you're to fucking stupid to open a dictionary to find the
DW> meaning of an unfamiliar word.

JS> Man! Hee hee-ee. I sure pulled a _lot_ of chains with that one, didn't
JS> I? 

Y'think Jesus is happy with your behavior?

... You were born stupid and have been losing ground ever since.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  persevere
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:36:16
EID:428f 202a9c80
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 30f45b86
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "persevere"

HP> This is the "argue about religion" echo, Jimmy.  Why shouldn't they
HP> argue about religion here?

JS> To quote the right honorable Jimmy Swaggart, 'It's just none of your
JS> business', Hector.

Isn't this the same "right honorable" guy who paid to watch a prostitute
masturbate? The same "right honorable" guy who is such a farce that he
damages the cause of Christianity more than he helps it?



... Nice argument; too bad it was killed by those vicious facts.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Dan A. Post
|To:   All
|Sub:  What the ???
|Date: 09 Jan 96  09:59:10
EID:4962 20294f60
MSGID: 1:245/100 05121e01
TID: GE 1.11+
What exactly is the purpose of this echo, anyhow?

I was under the impression that it was a religious discussion, as this is
the section that it is under on my local carrier.

Is there a definition somewhere that I could look at?


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: (1:245/100)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  THUMB-SUCKING FUNDY
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:31:03
EID:6665 202aabe0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 6058ebf4
AS>  To a certain extent I agree with you that interstellar travel is 
AS> probably  very difficult, as I mentioned to David Worrell. 
AS> And yet...actually an  Orion-type starcraft could be built 
AS> within the next few decades. (It would  be equal to the 


Al, it would be far easier for your god to just populate the universe. 
The arguement is not whether we could populate the universe, although I
don't think that we can, but why the universe is so devoid of life if your
god engineered it to contain life.

I don't see that nything else matters.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Lon S. Mabon
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:32:39
EID:b8e3 202aac00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 6058edf1
REPLY: 1:228/87.0 30eff8ef
LSM>  We disagree. I see no 'myth' or 'lies' in the biblical account 
LSM> of the  great flood.

Do you also believe the first thing that a used car salesman tells you?

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Staal continues to deny his hatred
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:33:43
EID:a491 202aac20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 6058f194
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30ef484c
JS> It doesn't to me. You seem to have the problem. I have not seen 
JS> one instance. Oh, some atheist pagans have attempted to 
JS> discredit the Word by taking things out of their intended 
JS> context and meaning, but...hey... there purpose was clear 
JS> from the beginning and had no effect what so ever...

The bible is full of physcial impossibilities.  the flood is only one example.
You know the litany of the rest of them.  do you seriously believe that
a book that contains a story like that of the ark can be believed in anything.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  holysmoke.faq.ab
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:34:51
EID:a6fa 202aac40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 6058f483
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30ef484d
MG>> No one here said that homosexuality would go to hell.  You 
MG>> and others have pointed out that your bible claims that 
MG>> homosexuals will go to hell. That sounds like hate to me.

JS> Sounds more like impetus or exhortation to me, Martin. Why is 
JS> passing on information received as 'hate'?

Because the information is hate.  why is it any different if your bible
had told you that being black was a sin?

But the original question is better.  If you try to separate the sin from
the sinner, why does the sinner and not the sin go to hell?

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub:  a miracle in the making
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:37:25
EID:adaa 202aaca0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 6058f9ce
ML>      Yep. Evidence of the miracle of folks with fine breeding and
ML>      extraordinary good taste.

And now, I know why you drink that stuff.  It's the only thing strong enough
to wash down the taste of the Original Flying Liver, the American Goose.

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Glen Zilly
|Sub:  Thanks for the Response!
|Date: 10 Jan 96  21:38:39
EID:b57a 202aacc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 605915ee
REPLY: 1:271/320.0 30F187E8
GZ> 1. Do the contradictions you stated have relevancy to the belief 
GZ> that Jesus Chritst is the Lord and Savior?

Yes.  they are lies or errors that are in your bible.  when these kidns
of things creep in, I suspect the whole thing and not just the individual
passages.  How could I believe in a book that tells me of a saviour when
in the same book, I find the story of Naoh's Ark?

GZ> 2. Could your contradictions, most of which were numerical 
GZ> differences, be a cause of poor translations from earlier 
GZ> texts?

Could be.  do you think that if the ark story is an error, that the Jesus
story may be an error.  If not, how do you differentiate the two?

GZ>        If we should continue these discussions I would also like 
GZ> to ask you a few questions about your religious beliefs and 
GZ> background. Have you ever been involved in any religion? If 
GZ> so, what was it? Do you believe in God? What do you think 
GZ> about Jesus? What is your purpose on this forum?

I was born jewish and attemded sudnay school through the tenth grade whn
I was confirmed.  I was Bar Mitzvahed and went to the synagogue on high
holy days with my parents.  I gave up religion because it was based on lies
and seemed to have no valuable function.

GZ>        In my readings of the Bible I have often speculated on the 
GZ> literal interpretation versus the symbolic interpretation. 
GZ> Perhaps you can find slight discrepancies which are 

Most of the bible needs to be taken with a grain of salt.  Our favorite
example here is the stories of the creation and the story of the ark.  How
do you tell the difference between these and those stories that you want
to tqke literally?

--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub:  AL SCHRODINGER AND HIS P
|Date: 08 Jan 96  08:17:00
EID:1094 20284220
Michael Hardy to Al Schroeder on 01-04-96 19:21 re: AL SCHRODINGER AND HIS

P 

MH> Fred, like Larry Sites, thinks there is something clever in calling
MH> people he dislikes obscene names. A classic trait of the
MH> under-educated.

Sorta like salad bar grazing is a trait of the deluded ignorant, huh?


Larry Sites  Fuck AOL/Focus on the Family 
Freq FORGERY.ZIP, Falisfy Fundi father fakery
___
* WR 1.31 # 398 * Those who commit sodomy turn their backs to god.
--- FMailX/386 1.0g
* Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924  (1:202/212)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
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PATH: 202/212 201 777 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub:  Eusubius
|Date: 08 Jan 96  08:27:00
EID:cab8 20284360
Michael Hardy to Larry Sites on 01-04-96 21:10 re: Eusubius 

-=> Quoting Larry Sites to Hector Plasmic <=-

LS> This attribution was made by Eusebius, the biggest fucking liar in
LS> christian history and the one with the opportunity to implement th

MH> You keep ranting that. Just what did Eusebius lie about?

Odds are he is responsible for the Josephus forgery and the jesus/agbar

correspondence forgery. He has a chapter in one of his books about lying

for the lord. He also told a different story about Constantines "sign of

the cross" AFTER Con was dead. 

While not lies, per se, he recanted Jesus to avoid the Domantion 
persecution and fliped from Arainism after it lost theologically. He got

the commission to write the state bibles for Constantine.

It's all documented in _Forgery_, and probably many other sources. Squak

all you want, even most christians like your bro Al will admit that Eu is

the most dishonest father in your family. 


Larry Sites  Fuck AOL/Focus on the Family 
Freq FORGERY.ZIP, Falisfy Fundi father fakery
___
* WR 1.31 # 398 * Know God, no peace. No God, know peace.
--- FMailX/386 1.0g
* Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924  (1:202/212)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 202/212 201 777 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  HEAVENLY AND DAZED
|Date: 08 Jan 96  08:31:00
EID:5e60 202843e0
Michael Hardy to Marilyn Burge on 01-04-96 21:35 re: HEAVENLY AND DAZED


But I can still feel sorry for the
AS> ones who died in Skid Road and the avenue. And reflect that
AS> if they had been given the same advantages I had, they may
AS> not be dead.

MB> That's garbage!  They are where they are because they like
MB> their intoxication more than they like the prospect of being
MB> sober and taking responsibility for their actions.

MH> Why Marilyn, where's your compassion? How can you so flippantly
MH> dismiss these people? They're stuck in a hard life, and you come
MH> back with some shit about them deserving it and having only
MH> themselves to blame.

MH> You're an insensitive clod, Marilyn.

And yet Michael worships a god who is not only similarly insensitive but
is 
the direct creator of such a situation.


Larry Sites  Fuck AOL/Focus on the Family 
Freq FORGERY.ZIP, Falisfy Fundi father fakery
___
* WR 1.31 # 398 *  Mirrors on the ceiling, pink champagne on ice... 
--- FMailX/386 1.0g
* Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924  (1:202/212)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 202/212 201 777 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 08 Jan 96  08:39:00
EID:2cca 202844e0
Michael Hardy to Larry Sites on 01-04-96 21:56 re: CHRISTOLOGY 

LS> To establish a precident for the Roman ladies being the first to b
LS> the  "good news" of your lying superstition to their male dominate
LS> households.  This little detail that you find so credible because 
LS> it's apparent  contridiction to common sense is just ANOTHER LIE
LS> created by your religions  decievers to make it easier to fuck ove
LS> gullable of their day. It was  created to serve a purpose in the d
LS> was written, not to be an accurate  description of a long ago myth

MH> The simplest explanation is that the gospels record women as the first
MH> to find the empty tomb because it is the truth.

The simplest explanation, like simple minded people such as yourself who

accept superstition as fact, are sometimes wrong.

Why did Eusebius write a chapter on how to lie for god? Why did your 
superstition accept it being ok to lie for god? The simplest explaination

is that they needed to or do you have an even better reason why it is ok
to 
lie for your god?


Larry Sites  Fuck AOL/Focus on the Family 
Freq FORGERY.ZIP, Falisfy Fundi father fakery
___
* WR 1.31 # 398 * Fundamentalism: Disease where the afflicted refuse the
cu
--- FMailX/386 1.0g
* Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924  (1:202/212)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   MARILYN BURGE
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 08 Jan 96  09:03:00
EID:c472 20284860
Marilyn Burge to Michael Hardy on 01-04-96 20:53 re: CHRISTOLOGY 

MH> Given that women were not considered credible witnesses,
MH>  An uncredible witness doesn't help anything.

MB>It certainly prevents one getting accused of lying and having the
MB>accusation believed.  And, if there WERE NO WITNESSES, it solves
MB>that problem right handily.

And it makes an EXCELLENT precident for the Roman ladies introduction of

the "good news" into their male dominated household. "See Rufious, god DOES

SO reveal things to women first, it says so right here in the Wholly 
Babble. You know that if the authors were going to lie thay would have the

males disciples be the first. Now you don't have any reason to be upset

about not being the first in our family to find the truth. Just come along

and get your salvation like a good little hubby." Can't you just see the

Roman Jimmy Swaggerts buttering up and preping the ladies to help fleese

the mam of the house? 

And when Rufious says, "How come you believe that wheezle Eusebius, didn't

he recant jesus to save his hide just a few years ago? If all that hooie

were true, how come he didn't die like a man for what he supposedly knew

was true?" THEN she says, "Well Peter did no better and they made HIM the

first pope! And besides, it says right here in the ancient Sibyl that jesus

was comming. You believe the Sibyl about everything else, don't you? And

besides, that nice new Emperor Constantine, is giving all the new converts

extra state benefits." 

Gee, how REALLY USEFULL all those supposedly embarsingly yet claimed true

events are!


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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   DAVID SPARROW
|Sub:  ARK nut
|Date: 08 Jan 96  09:19:00
EID:55f7 20284a60
David Sparrow to Dan Ceppa on 01-05-96 19:29 re: ARK nut 

DC> So, dipstick, explain why the fossils are not intermingled, but
DC> are in the order as predicted by an evolutionary, not biblical,
DC> origination?

DS>Firstly dipstick, much of fossildom IS intermingled 

DS>are all those lovely fossils which either puncture through many layers
DS>(oh layers labelled so by uniformatists/evolutionists) or are found in
DS>"wrong" layers.

Name 2 SPECIFIC examples of each with supporting references necessary to

check it out or forever be know as just ANOTHER lying DUMBFUCK christian.


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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   CHARLES ROLLINS
|Sub:  Re: ARK nut
|Date: 08 Jan 96  09:23:00
EID:51f0 20284ae0
Charles Rollins to Martin Goldberg on 01-05-96 01:53 re: Re: ARK nut 

CR>I took this echo off my bbs for the juvenile way and juvenile language
CR>being used and I thought I'd come back in and see if anyone on here gre
CR>up but apparently not.  Maybe if I come back on in another few months,
CR>one or two here may grow up and learn to be more adult in choosing thei
CR>language more wisely.

No DUMBFUCK, you ran away like a typical christian chickenshit cause you

could not support the fucking lies you told in the name of your gawd, and

you didn't want any of your deluded users to see that hurtfull truth. Fuck

you and the Wholly Babble you rode in on!


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ot
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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   MARIA RUSSELL
|Sub:  Re: FOF
|Date: 08 Jan 96  09:44:00
EID:f4e5 20284d80
Maria Russell to Lynda Bustilloz on 01-06-96 02:02 re: Re: FOF 

MR>And the man came to the rescue and SAVED THE DAY! Some one-woman war

Make you feel good, cunt? How come the dick that's your head isn't here

instead of you?


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|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   DICK HOLM
|Sub:  Noah's Impossible Ar
|Date: 08 Jan 96  10:12:00
EID:9b73 20285180
Dick Holm to Luke Clark on 01-04-96 09:56 re: Noah's Impossible Ar 

DH>  I'm a minister (Lutheran), and I get pa
DH> for telling my congregation what I have found, what I believe, and wha
DH> think the bible means. I try to support my dogmas, theology, and ideas
DH> with a rational background,

Then you are a fucking bloodsucker that promotes organized child abuse.

Disgusting! What rational do you have for abusing children with your 
unevidenced superstition? You are no better that a sex pervert forcing 
himself upon those to young to understand or defend themselves from your

perverted beliefs.


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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Ric Carter
|Sub:  the trial
|Date: 08 Jan 96  21:59:00
EID:cfb3 2028af60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Ric Carter to Michael Hardy <=-

MB> According to Jewish Law, the only thing that Jesus could have been
MB> tried for is heresy, which is a sin against religion, not a civil
MB> -rime. Therefore, the Jews COULD NOT have turned over Jesus to the
MB> civil authorities under Jewish Law, without the Sanhedrin itself
MB> having been guilty of heresy. Since the Sanhedrin is a body of
MB> over 70 men who had devoted their lives to Jewish Law, it seems
MB> unlikely that they would have agreed enmasse to commit such a (in
MB> their eyes) horrible crime against their god Jehovah.

RC> Hebraic punishment for religious crimes was stoning.  Roman punishment
RC> for "blasphemy" was [depending on the class of the offender]
RC> impalement, strangulation, or enslavement.  Roman punishment for
RC> leaders of armed rebellion ["banditry"] was crucifixion.  Jesus was
RC> crucified because he led an armed group of assassins [Iscariots,
RC> wielders of scarii, long daggers] and zealots [like the prick that shot
RC> Rabin] and other members of the Jewish Rebellion.  The gospels are
RC> spin-doctored propaganda.

And your source? Evidence? Documentation?

MH> They tried to get him condemned under their own law first. It was
MH> only after they couldn't get the required two witnesses to testify
MH> against him that they took the step of trying to convince Pilate that
MH> he was a threat to the civil order, based only on a "blasphemous"
MH> statement of Jesus himself.  They had to get Pilate's OK for a death
MH> sentence, under the rules imposed by the Roman occupation.

RC> According to contemporary accounts sent back to Rome [from Roman
RC> military officials complaining that Pilates's mistreatment of the Jews
RC> only made governing Palestine more difficult], Pilate's usual response
RC> to *any* request or complaint from Hebraic councils, was to send out
RC> troops to defile the temple and slaughter the outraged populace.
RC> Pilate was *not* likely to have acted as protrayed in gospels, which
RC> anyway were written decades later, when the Saulist church leaders were
RC> trying to reach an accommodation with Imperial Rome.  The gospels were
RC> carefully crafted to downplay Jesus' anti-Roman message; instead of
a
RC> hand-washing, what we see is a white-washing of Romans and Jesus alike.

Pilate responded to their request that he do something with Jesus out
of his own self-interest. The Jews convinced him that Jesus was
declaring himself king in defiance of Ceaser, and that Pilate would
seem a traitor if he allowed him to live. No sense of justice on
Pilate's part need be assumed; his self-interest is reason enough.

Where can I find information about these "contemporary accounts" for
myself?

... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  ATHIEST AGAINST ABORTION
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:37:00
EID:0ffa 2029b4a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Michael Hardy <=-

MH> Try searching in the Constitution for a reference that specifically
MH> guarantees the right to abortion.

JB> The case was decided under the right to privacy that the Constitution
JB> DOES guarantee, and the premise that what a woman and her doctor
JB> decide is covered under that right of privacy.

I understand that, and it was the point. Dan says the Constitution
doesn't define fetii as human beings. Fine. It also doesn't
specifically guarantee any right to abortion. That's a judicial
construct, the opinion of a few Supreme Court Justicies, that may or
may not mirror what the authors of the Constitution themselves would
have wanted.

I find it a pretty illogical ruling. If a woman and her doctor decided
in private that she needed to kill her husband, that wouldn't fall
under the "right to privacy."

... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  abortion argument
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:04:00
EID:4b5b 2028b080
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Ryan Shaw to Michael Hardy <=-

MH>  It's true men don't carry the fetus. It's also true that most
MH> people  don't care for aged parents in the home. But if someone who
MH> doesn't  care for an aged parent says "I don't care how difficult
MH> it is to take  care of your mother, you still don't have the right
MH> to put cyanide in  her tea," are you going to suggest that since he
MH> doesn't have an aged  parent of his own to care for, he has no
MH> right to an opinion?

RS> I think that's a little different.  Under our current laws, spiking
RS> one's tea is murder and the people that do such things should be tried
RS> and punished under our law.

What's legal isn't the point; I'm discussing what's *right*. Abortion
is legal -- but I don't believe it to be right.

RS> I, going against our societal norms, plan on doing whatever it takes
RS> to take care of parents when the can no longer take care of themselve.
RS> They've given me a lot in life and I at least owe them that.
RS> Besides, I cannot fathom placing them in a nursing home.

That's highly commendable. My father is already dead, but should my
mother ever need that kind of constant care, I will give it to her.

RS> I'm sure you and I will agree that the best way to confront this
RS> problem would be to not get pregnant in the first place but that
RS> doesn't happen all of the time.  The simple reality of life at the
RS> moment means that abortion should at least be an option.

I agree that prevention is best. However, I think that if a pregnancy
does occur, the woman's rights are superseded by her obligation to the
life she's created. I don't think the unborn's life should be forfeit
simply because his mother made a poor choice.

MH>  Now, I realize that just banning abortion tomorrow would only make
MH> such  problems worse.

RS> I'm glad you realize this.

MH> Its influence has cut so deeply already that
MH> behavior  patterns wouldn't change right away, and more children
MH> would be born to  people who don't want them. But I think that we
MH> as a culture must begin  to push back. I think we're heading for
MH> serious trouble if we don't.

RS> ...and this as well.  I agree with you that people need to be more
RS> responsible.  The problem is that there will always be people who are
RS> not.
RS> Personally I don't like abortions and I don't plan on being in a
RS> situation that would mandate it as I am a responsible person.  When
and
RS> if I choose to have children I will make sure that I want that, that
my
RS> wife and I both want the child, and that we are both intent on
RS> providing the child with a lot of love and nurturing.

I disagree with your support for abortion rights. However, you are one
of the more reasonable and moderate pro-choice people I've encountered.
While I disagree with some of your opinions, I respect the obvious care
and consideration with which you've arrived at them.

... Beware of geeks bearing .GIFs.

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Athiest Against Abortion
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:10:00
EID:6ada 2028b140
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-

DC> Gee, Mikey... Try searching in the Constition for a reference that
DC> gives a fetus status as a human.

MH> Try searching in the Constitution for a reference that specifically
MH> guarantees the right to abortion.

DC> Just read the 4th & 5th Amendments and follow that with the 9th.  They
DC> cover it quite well.

None of them say "abortion," any more than "person" is specifically
defined.

... Dan appears to be suffering from Clue Deficiency Disorder.

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  amtrak
|Date: 08 Jan 96  22:12:00
EID:a9ea 2028b180
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Lynda Bustilloz <=-

LB> Ever been IN a train for a while?  It looks like everything
LB> is moving but you are stationary.  Does that make it so?

JH> Have you riden Amtrak lately?

JH> It looks likes everything is moving backward, but you are
JH> being swung from side to side.

JH> Japanese bullet trains may give the impression of standing
JH> still, but on Amtrak you know you are in motion WHEN you
JH> are in motion (which isn't all the time).

True. Sometimes you are derailed. :)


... To laugh well is to live well.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Hector Plasmic
|Sub:  Re: love
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:12:00
EID:d125 2029a180
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8900437F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Hector Plasmic to Michael Hardy <=-

MH> I like the way he capitalized "Her Tight Brests" [sic]

HP> You're not back on that "if you capitalize it you must think it's a
HP> god" kick, are you, Mikey?

HP> BTW, saw 'em in some old film she made with your hero, Marjoe Gortner,
HP> and unless she's had some surgery done they're neither tight nor gods.

Do you realize that all of your comments above are completely
pointless, aimless and mindless? Not to mention weird?

... There is no such thing as a stupid question. But yours comes close.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  what??
|Date: 09 Jan 96  20:14:00
EID:2554 2029a1c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89004380
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-

LB> Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about what??:

LB> Oh, it could be even worse than that -- I *could* still be in
LB> Pensacola, Fl!

MH> What?? I grew up in Pensacola!

LB> Well, I'll try not to hold it against you. ;)

MH> Don't be dissin' Pensacola now. Not
MH> after all that reconciliation we just went through. :)

LB> It THIS is enough to lay waste to it, we are truly in a heap of
LB> trouble. I honestly cannot come up with one single pleasant memory of
LB> the place other than the birth of my oldest daughter, and that was only
LB> because I was too busy to remember where I was.

LB> Trust me on this one -- my time in Pensacola was a VERY bad period of
LB> my life, and the attitudes of the people there did nothing to make it
LB> any easier.

(deleted the rest for brevity)

Given what you went through there, I can't blame you. I have fond
memories of growing up there, but of course I never went through
anything like that at all.

Just out of curiosity, where in Pensacola did you live? I grew up in
the Scenic Heights neighborhood, and my mother still lives there.

... This score just in:  Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  [2/2] HEAVENLY AND DAZED
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:19:00
EID:f57b 2029b260
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89004381
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Marilyn Burge <=-

MB> would never fully recover from the ordeal, and never, ever be able
MB> to relate successfully with either men, the State, or children
MB> again for the rest of her life; the aftermath would be nothing
MB> less than total alienation from the human family.

LB> I agree, strongly.  I hope that Michael is reading this, as he still
LB> has trouble understanding how I can be personally so strongly pro-life,
LB> while being politically strongly pro-choice.
LB> (Mike -- I didn't include that just to talk "about" you, but I figure
LB> you probably do a word search for your name, and what we are discussing
LB> here pertains to what you asked me.)

No, I don't do a word search for my name, but I do scroll through most
of the messages posted by people with whom I frequently dialogue.

Your post to Marilyn goes a long way toward helping me understand your
position. I have no particular comment at this time. (No, don't reach
for your glasses -- you read that right!) 

... A Mexican won the lottery. It was a million to Juan.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   All
|Sub:  fetus
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:40:00
EID:5d2b 2029b500
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89004382
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
I offer for your consideration this column by civil libertarian Nat
Hentoff. For documentation purposes, I note that it is c.1995 by the
Newspaper Enterprise Association.

==BEGIN QUOTED TEXT==

Recently, speaking at Princeton University on the
controversy-that-will-not-go-away, I tried to indicate to the students
and faculty members that the fetus is not only human life -- an
assertion denied by several of the pro-choicers there -- but is indeed
a human being. A gentle, thoughtful graduate student had great
difficulty with the latter claim, following me out to the car. And so
will some voters confronted by pro-life candidates making that
assertion this election year.

Much of the electorate will, however, have long since made up their
mind about the personhood, if any, of the fetus. For instance,
Northwestern University professor Adolph Reed Jr. states unequivocally
in the Village Voice, a fortress of pro-choice sentiment:

"A fetus is not a human being. It's an organism growing inside a
woman's body, albeit an organism with the potential to become a human
being."

And as a majority of the Supreme Court stated in Roe v. Wade.
potentiality is not enough to qualify the fetus for the right to due
process, equal protection under the laws and other saving priviliges of
being a person under the Constitution.

[...]

There is, however, a small augury that the combatants could begin to
speak to each other with more than epithets.

In a remarkable move toward not only civility but also empathy, Naomi
Wolf, an influential feminist pro-choicer, has written in the New
Republic: "Many pro-choice advocates developed a language to assert
that the fetus isn't a person, and this, over the years, has developed
into a lexicon of dehumanization. ... How can we charge that it is vile
and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if
the images are real?"

Naomi Wolf has been treated as a turncoat by some of her pro-choice
comrades, but pro-lifers with whom I've spoken are encouraged. They
regret, to say the least, that she is still very much for abortion
rights, but are pleased that she understands at least part of their
language.

My own attempts at dialogue in this minefield have brought me to
Harvard, Princeton, Brown and Columbia University Law School and other
campuses. I'm invariably invited by a small, hardy group of pro-lifers
who present me as a surprising, atypical ally of theirs, a
non-religious civil libertarian pro-lifer whose mentors have included
Justice William Brennan and Duke Ellington -- and decidedly not Ralph
Reed.

During those talks I focus on whether the fetus is indeed human. Not
just potentially human. I cite the beginning of a standard medical
textbook, "The Unborn Patient: Prenatal Diagnosis and Treatment" (W.B.
Saunders Co.):

"The concept that the fetus is a patient, an individual, whose maladies
are a proper subject for medical treatment as well as scientific
observation is alarmingly modern... Only now are we beginning to
consider the fetus seriously -- medically, legally and ethically."

And I tell of the a comment in the Journal of the American Medical
Association by Dr. Joel Hylton:

"Who can say that the fetus is not alive and is not a separate entity?
Its humanity also cannot be questioned. It is certainly of no other
species. That it is dependent on another makes it qualitatively no
different from countless other humans outside the womb."

I also report on interviews I've done with physicians specializing in
pre-natal development. They point out that human life is a continuum
from implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterine lining to birth
and death. So, in abortion, it is the life of a developing human being
that is killed. At whatever stage, he or she is human, not merely
potentially human.

Naomi Wolf quotes from "The Well Baby Book," which is not a pro-life
manual: "Knowledge is increasing the awe and respect we have for the
unborn baby andis causing us to regard the unborn baby as a real person
long before birth."

== END QUOTED TEXT ==

... A Mexican won the lottery. It was a million to Juan.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

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|From: Michael Hardy
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 09 Jan 96  22:43:00
EID:d1f9 2029b560
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89004383
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  93-0963
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Marilyn Burge <=-

AS>>  Cannot agree at all. There is a HUGE difference between
AS>> pagan and Jewish  culture, and here was a Jewish country.

MB> A Jewish country that was occupied by pagans.  As I said:
MB> the two cultures lived side-by-side, with each becoming
MB> familiar with the modus operandi of the other.

JH> What Al can't bring himself to see is the process of assimilation.
JH>
JH> In a grossly accelerated form, it goes something like
JH> this: Generation 1 of culture A holds culture B in total
JH> contempt, generation 2 is largely indifferent to culture B,
JH> generation 3 adopts portions of culture B and thinks it's
JH> part of their own culture.
JH>

However, there's no evidence that that had happened in the Judea of
Jesus's day. Nowhere in the Gospels is there any indication that pagan
practices or rituals had made any inroads against Judaism.

It wasn't until Paul and the other Apostles began taking the word to
the rest of the world that they had pagan beliefs to contend with.

... ...... Click ... click ... click ... damn, out of taglines!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
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|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:14:48
EID:fb80 202a89c0
** Quoting Robert Jackson to Asmodeus **
R>  D>  A> practised by so many of today's society.  I do not believe in
'an
R> eye
R>  D>  A> for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'.  I follow a saying that goes
more
R>  D>  A> like 'an eye for a limb, a tooth for a head'.
R>  D> 
R>  D>   You can't even get your pithy sayings right, can you?  If
R> someone
R>  D> chops off your arm, all you're going to do is put out his eye?  If
R> someone
R>  D> chops off your head, how are you going to manage taking one of his
R> teeth?
R>  D> 
R>  D> Go buy yourself a clue.
R> 
R>  As> Excuse me for posting wrong.  At the time I had indulged on some
very
R>  As> fine alcoholic beverages and was not totally in my full mind.  It
will
R>  As> not happen again.  I am humbly apologizing, oh mighty god-adorer.

R> 
R>         What a wonderfully bifurcative Christian attitude you have. 
It
R>         seems that if someone pokes a little jab at you, it couldn't
R>         *possibly* be for any other reason than their theism?  David's
R>         one of the more fervent theists here--not that you'd have enough
R>         foresight to learn that from even one or two of his posts.
R> 
R> ... I'll bet you've got the word BRUNSWICK stamped in your forehead.
R> --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
R>  * Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
R> SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51

Its not at all that if someone pokes a jab at me I think it is only because
of
their theism.  It is only that I would only expect such childish things
from a
theist, and somewhat less immature posts from a non-theist.
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
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|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:29:34
EID:fb80 202a8ba0
** Quoting Robert Jackson to Asmodeus **
R>  As> #4  Senseless violence is frowned upon by those who are of my
R>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ contradiction follows
R>  As> religion.  Raping and killing mindlessly would fall into the
R>  As> category of senseless violence. 
R>  As> #5  No, this is not true.  Do you not derive joy from vengeance?
I do.
R>                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
R>  As> #6  no, i do not come out short. they take my eye, i take their
limb. 
R>  As> they     take my tooth, I take their head.  
R>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
R>  As> #7  Give into my id?  what do you mean by this?
R> 
R>         See above.
R> 
R>  As> #8  I would never do anything to harm one who does not deserve it.

R> 
R>         I get the impression (mainly from your way of replying to
R>         people halfcocked, and from your #5 reply) that the thought
R>         of violence gives you a raging hardon, but you "legitimize"
R>         that by tacking on the qualifier of "is it jstified?"
R> 
R>         Seeing as you make a point of returning a greater slight for
R>         one directed at you, I get a sense you, "taking joy from vengeance",
R>         probably go looking for people who will cause you to get into
R>         situations that let you show how much of a tough stud you are.
R>         You probably find a way to make ANYTHING justifiable by violence
R>         if you just happen to be in a kickass mood, don't you?  It sounds
R>         like LaVeyanism is a religion for steroid-abusers who would like
R>         to make a sacrament of getting liquored up in biker bars.
R> 
R>         Vengeance isn't something to be enjoyed--it's something to be
R>         gotten on with, without joy, only duty.  If you get your
R>         rocks off from exacting vengeance, you're nothing more than a
R>         little thug who pins a little medal of honor on his own chest
R>         afterwards, thinking he's righteous.  Join the Crusades, they
R>         need a few good men like you.
R> 
R         I guess it doesn't matter what side of the coin someone's on,
R>         be it Satanism or "whitelighter"--it's still just a bad penny.
R> 
R> 
R> ... You should sue Ex-Lax for defecation of character.
R> --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
R>  * Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
R> SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51

Its not at all like you think.  I dont go looking for people to get me pissed
off so i have to deal with it.  I hate it when someone does that to me,
so I
would not do it to others.  I simply derive pleasure from revisiting suffering
upon those who cause me pain. I see nothing wrong with that.  I rank 'getting
people to anger me so I have to deal with it' not only as stupidity but
senseless action.  No, about vengeance only being duty, not joy, that goes
against my beliefs.  I dont do anything without getting some pleasure from
it.

As for joining the Crusades, I think I'll pass on that.  What they do/did
is
just senseless violence.  And my religion hasnothing to do with steroids
or
getting liquored up in biker bars.  Its simply a 'take-no-crap,
do-what-you-have-to-do' religion.  I never instigate anything. And as for
why
Igive more than the same amount of punishment back is simply to show my
enemies
I am the better and to save further conflict, not provoke more.

No, violence does not give me a raging hardon.  I despise violence, If i
enjoyed it I be a provoker, but I am not.  For one example, look in this
echo
for any insult I have directed at another before one was sent against me.
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
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|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:37:02
EID:cadf 202a8ca0
** Quoting Preston Simpson to Asmodeus **
P> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Asmodeus mumbled "Re: Satanist"
P> 
P>  As> Go to your local bookstore, pick up the Satanic Bible written by
Anton
P>  As> Szandor LaVey, and leaf through it.  You'll see that Satanism isn't
P> 
P> I noted that you quoted from it without bothering with quotation marks.
P> 
P>  As> having no religion, I adopted Satanism.  To this day, two years
hence,
P>  As> I do not regret my decision.  I was only 16 at the time. (you are
P> 
P> You're eighteen. So, what makes your religion more valid than anyone
P> else's? Or no religion at all?
P> 
P>  As> probably saying "16?  how could he establish a firm set of beliefs
by
P>  As> that age.  He is some sadistic fool who seeks  his actions")  I
must
P> 
P> Not at all.
P> 
P>  As> inform you this is not the case at all.  I am a very intelligent
P>  As> person, I wish not to brag so I will not post my IQ.  I analyze
P> 
P> Oh, good. I would hate to have to respond in kind.
P> 
P> 
P> 
P> ... Ph'nglui mglw'nath Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtan.
P> --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
P>  * Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
P> SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51

I did include quotation marks, but unfortunately I must point again at this
software which I am using.  I cannot explain it, but when I type something,
save it, then go look at it, its all messed up, with mispellings, misplaced
carriage returns, etc...
I simply meant to imply that I believe mine is best, for me, as it is of
a
logical nature.  Know why 'white-lighters' have doubts sometimes? Its logic
taking over.  I have no doubts.  Perhaps other religions are better for
others,
but I speak only for what is in my opinion best for myself.  I never try
t'convert' people to my religion.  If they think that their's is best for
them,
thats fine, as long as they dont cross my rights.

Normally I have a dont ask, dont tell philosophy about my beliefs but I
excused
this as this is an echo for religious discussion and I wished to introduce
meyself according tothe subject.
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2330/20 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:39:46
EID:8235 202a8ce0
** Quoting Preston Simpson to Asmodeus **
P> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Asmodeus mumbled "Re: White-lighter Religions"
P> 
P>  L> That's nice, dear.  Run along and play like a good boy, now.  And
don't
P>  L> forget your sweater -- we wouldn't want you to catch a cold!
P> 
P>  As> Do not bother to reply to my posts unless you have something
P>  As> constructive to add.  Such comments only confirm my belief in
P>  As> whitelighters as being the incompetent fools that they (you) are.
P> 
P> Not at all. Lynda is a well-versed, intelligent person who happens to
P> have made a choice that works for her.
P> 
P> You do not strike me as such. You come across as a young, inexperienced
P> person who while possibly intelligent has gotten hung up on the first
P> thing that came along and followed it slavishly without learning to
P> explore things critically. In other words, you're like many other people
P> your age.
P> 
P> 
P> --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
P>  * Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
P> SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/ 396/1 3615/50 51

It is too bad that teenagers are stereotyped as such.  I have never been
the
'normal' teenager, I have looked at things with a more serious scrutiny
and
have analyzed greatly.  If i took the first thing that came along I would
still
be calling myself a Christian.
I might appear as an immature, incompetent, head in the clouds teenager
to you
but I am not, by a long shot.
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2330/20 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Re: Satanist
|Date: 10 Jan 96  17:46:14
EID:c4d7 202a8dc0
** Quoting Gwenny the Pooh to Asmodeus **
G> Heilsa, Asmodeus!
G> 
G> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
G> Asmodeus say to ALL:
G> 
G> 
G> A> Hey, any Satanists in this echo?  Not those cat-killing, drug-addicted
G> A> foolsbut real Satanists, those who practice more or less along the
lines
G> of
G> A> what LaVey was talking about?  Write me if you are, and if you are
some
G> A> white-lighter who wants to try to stomp my religion, all i can say
is,
G> COME
G> A> GET SOME.
G> 
G> Well, I'm not a "satanist" or a "setian", but I AM an "unevolved" pagan
who
G> likes satanists.   Personally, I like Dr. Aquino's path a little better
G> than LaVey.
G>                         Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
G> 
G>                                                             Gwenny
G> 
G> 
G> ... ...Can televangelists do more than lay people???
G> --- GoldED/386 2.50+
G>  * Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet
G> 1:128/203.2)
G> SEEN-BY: 128/1 50 73 166 190 196 203 1200 1300 1310 1320 330 396/1 3615/50
G> SEEN-BY: 3615/51

Hi Gwenny

I only say I follow the 'LaVey path' because it is easier for people to
look up
that philosophy than for me to explain my own.  And since they are identical,
I
have no variations to add to it.  I was a 'LaVey Satanist' before I knew
what
one was.  

As for Valhalla or Niflhel, I'd rather spend eternity with the strong and
death-defiant than the sickly and old, so I would have to say Valhalla.
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2330/20 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Asmodeus
|To:   Steve Rose
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 10 Jan 96  18:24:42
EID:ed33 202a9300
** Quoting Steve Rose to Asmodeus ** 
S> Asmodeus wrote in a message to Fredric Rice: 
S>  
S>  A> would have you believe.  I believe you brought this subject up on

S>  A> amisconception, namely that I was a Christian or some other 
S>  A> white-lighter, and you wished to instigate a discussion on the 
S>  A> absurdidty of the Christian belief of a thousand-year-old Earth,

S>  A> attempting to insult me.  I must tell you I am no Christian or 
S>  A> white-lighter.  My name alone should tell you of my devilish 
S>  A> background.  
S>  
S> Perhaps he was only trying to show you the equal absurdity of silly devils

S> and vampires, demonstrating as much superstition involved as the mythical

S> gawds that are running around in people's mind? 
S>  
S>  
S> --- timEd 1.10+ 
S>  * Origin:  * Above Board *  (1:109/601) 
S> SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51 

Perhaps this is so.  But I have spent the better part of my life praying
to 
God 
that I was told existed, with none of what I prayed for (more than just
to 
better my life) ever occuring.  This, of course, was incompetence on my
part 
because no such God exists.  However, now that I am older, and have thoughts

of 
my own, I have sought out new things.  I agree, vampires (the classic 
definition) do not exist.  I can not say so for devils.  I call upon these

beings in rituals and I see first hand my work being accomplished.  I try
to 
use my will alone, but sometimes I require extra 'help' to execute my 
demands.I 
do not perceive them as the widely-accepted definition states. namely, as

fallen angels who have denounced their God.  I view them more simply, as

beings 
which stand for things that I believe in and practise.  Perhaps they are
souls 
which have passed on, perhaps they are beings of another nature, which evlolve

differently from that of the flesh.  I know not, and develop no hypothesis

somewhat impossible to test it.  I instead accept them plainly as supernatural

beings, and dub them devils.   

˙ 


--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2330/20 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Asmodeus
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  ------
|Date: 10 Jan 96  18:33:06
EID:f9fc 202a9420
I am sorry if I have misjudged or mislabeled anyone.  It was not my intention
to do so.  As for any flame-wars which might erupt from this, I would rather
avoid their beginnings than to be forced to create the end.  I believe we
can
all get along in a friendly manner, and anything I have said which offendyou
before you insulted me was not meant to do so.  I am looking forward to
allthe
comments and philosophies any of you wish to share with me.  But please,
if you
wish to communicate with me, do so in an intelligent manner, not immaturely,
as
I have many other things to do than read and respond all day to Fido mail,
and
having to rebut someone's insulting lies about me, and then interjecting
some
of my own to more than settle the score is quite time consuming.  
--- FalkenRdr V1.9h
* Origin: The Horseman's BBS; Pleasant Lake MI <517-769-2230>  - (1:2330/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2330/20 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Churches
|Date: 10 Jan 96  20:09:46
EID:3d38 202aa120
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eab
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 9001a95f
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David and Christian were killing time yakking about Churches:


DW> If you had daughters, would you hand them over to a mob in order to

DW> protect a couple of angels, as Lot did?
CM> 
CM> Are you trying to judge my faith, for yourself?  Would answering this
CM> question really do anything for you?  I don't think so.  Let me
CM> explain: If I answered this question "yes", then you'd probably call
me
CM> a killer,  child hater, an idiot or a fool.

Nah...I'm sure they would call you most of those things regardless.
So, since you have nothing to lose, WOULD you?

CM> If I answered "no", then you would bash me for my lack of believe...
CM> and  how could one call himself a Christian if he wouldn't do these
CM> things. 

CM> Am I correct, or not?

Dunno -- let's see.  I will flat out say that that should any angel show
up on my doorstep and try to hide behind my CHILDREN in order to save their
own butts, I would be absolutely sure that such were not angels, but demons.
No angel worth its wings would require innocents be victimized for its sake.
If tossing away my children is some sort of "test" of my faith, then I fail,
because I have no faith in anyone who would ask for it.

Hint, Christian -- the story is a STORY, written by a patriarchal society
who saw hospitality as rating much higher than women.  If Lot wanted to
appease the crowd, why the hell didn't he sacrifice HIMSELF.  They obviously
weren't looking for women.


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "He that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent."
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Faith
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:12:50
EID:d804 202a9980
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eac
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 90070b98
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Kevin and Christian were killing time yakking about Faith:

KC> Even though I am a Christian I embrace the theory of Evolution. How?

CM> 
CM> Gee, I didn't know that the Bible said "and he shortened the monkey's
CM> tail, made him walk taller, and called him Man".

In your case He apparently forgot to remove the tail.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Degeneration and evolution are not the same.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Female Circumcision,
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:13:56
EID:3530 202a99a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47ead
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a2afb877
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Maria and Katherine were killing time yakking about Female Circumcision,:

MR> KW> The last recorded clitoridectomy in the USA was in 1948.  The girl
was
MR> KW> 5 years old.

MR>And in your endeavor to research this topic, did you just happen to find
out
MR>why this procedure might have been performed? Might it have been done
purely
MR>for "medical" reasons?

KW> To 'cure' masturbation.

KW> "Medical authorities in the 19th century seemed anxious to
KW> prevent women from discovering their own sexuality.  Girls who learned
KW> to develop orgasmic capacity by masturbation, just as boys learned it,
KW> were regarded as medical problems.  Often they were "treated" or
KW> "corrected" by amputation or cautery of the clitoris, or miniature
KW> chastity belts, sewing the vaginal lips together to put the clitoris
KW> out of reach, and even 'castration' by the surgical removal of the
KW> ovaries.  But there is no reference in the medical literature to
KW> surgical removal of the testicles or amputation of the penis to stop
KW> masturbation in boys. In the United States, the last recorded
KW> clitoridectomy  for curing masturbation was performed in 1948--on a
KW> five year old girl." 

KW> --Walker, Barbara.  _The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets_.
KW> New York, HarperCollins Pub. 1983.  p.171

I was RIGHT!!  Thanks for the confirmation.  May she choke on it. (more
frightening, is that she may see it as a solution for her own daughter)


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Always question Authority; oft venal and rong

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  FEMALE CIRCUMCISION, YET
|Date: 10 Jan 96  20:10:59
EID:d362 202aa140
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eae
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
J.j. and Judith were killing time yakking about FEMALE CIRCUMCISION, YET:

JB> ... Brighter than Cindi Lauper.  But then, what isn't?

I know I'm responding to a tagline, but don't let her persona fool you.
When she's not playing the Brookynite party girl, she reveals herself as
a very bright woman.  And many of her songs have an EVIL rapier wit (remember
She Bop?).  I don't share her fashion taste, but Cyndi Lauper is one of
my
"heros".



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A man gets what he wants by acting smart; a woman, by playing dumb.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Fred Phelps
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:22:52
EID:a94d 202a9ac0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eaf
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 73b6e49e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
The and Katherine were killing time yakking about Fred Phelps:

KW> And then Daddy waited.  The night came that Daddy was on sentry duty,
KW> it was raining, and the butterbar was returning late (and drunk). 
KW> Daddy challenged him at the gate.  The butterbar ignored him.  Daddy
KW> challenged him again. The butterbar stalked through the gate.  Daddy
KW> challenged him a third time, with the warning that he would shoot. 
KW> Then he killed him. All perfectly legal, as Daddy had made sure not
to
KW> do this without a witness that the man had refused to identify himself
KW> at the gate. 
KW> Ah, weel.  Undoubtedly you will charge like a goosed water buffalo,
KW> and I will wait, spinning my web, until timing is perfect...but we both
KW> get to our goals.  But I will be there to act again, when and if
KW> necessary. It isn't all that safe to think that this 'white' girl is
KW> lacking in honor.   Care for a piece of mincemeat pie?

LOL.  I really like your style, Katherine!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Meekness is merely uncommon patience in planning a worthwhile revenge

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Gods, not god
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:28:47
EID:25be 202a9b80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eb0
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 90090411
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Gwenny and Christian were killing time yakking about Gods, not god:

Gt> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.
CM> 
CM> Show your intelligence again, please.  It's not very smart to worship
CM> a rock.

Isn't Jesus the Rock?


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "It is our worship word too." -- Kirk

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  I'M BACK
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:35:44
EID:707b 202a9c60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eb1
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0137b6ed
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Katherine were killing time yakking about I'M BACK:

JB> JB> the occultists, pagans and witches could show up in full uniform,
the

JB>SKYCLAD?????????? Better be in the south in the summer. You can bring
JB>the skeeter repellant.

KW> Going to be 'a full dress' event, then?  Well, if we are going to get
KW> formal, I'd best dig out the silver polish and toothpicks. 

Silver polish.....and TOOTHPICKS?????!!!
I'm almost afraid to ask, but if I don't, I'll obsess on it.  Just what
do
you do with them to create a costume?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Better lock up the silverware." -- Sisko    "I'm on it." -- Odo

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  I'm back
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:37:10
EID:707b 202a9ca0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eb2
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b7311552
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Katherine were killing time yakking about I'm back:


LB>Blasphemist! (Just getting some practice in)

KW> Yes, the bunch of you are going to have to get together and rehearse.
KW> There is nothing worse then a group chanting 'Blasphemies' and
KW> throwing their hands up in horror out of synch.  And you'll want to
KW> make sure that you dress your lines. 

(G) I'll lead 'em in a "wave".  Maybe we'll re-enact the parting of the
Red
Sea while we're at it. (making note -- all fundies must wear red)

KW> Hummm, set the fundies up as a greek chorus to moan 'IS NOT.  You will
KW> burn in hell!' to give your group a dramatic backdrop.

Pretty good, maybe a little rap performance as the finale --

"We're Bible believers
and we're here to tell
you if you don't say we're right
then you're going to Hell

(BOOMskritchyBOOMskritchy)
(uhhuhhuhuhhhuhuuhuhhh)

Don't you dare dispute
a single word I say
Cause God's on MY side
and He don't like to play

(huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhhuhhh)


LB>No Bible beating from me -- hard heads tend to dent the cover, and they
LB>are a bit too expensive to be purposely damaging them.  But maybe we'll
KW> borrow LB>some Gideons for the purpose.

KW> Or some of Maria's fake twenties.  Make lovely snowstorm effects.

And little Jack Chick comics for party favors!!

LB>Actually, I've considered showing up as a NUN, with pictures of my four
kids
LB>in hand -- no reason, I just look good in black. (G)

KW> A real nun, or one of the dowdy new ones?

Oh, no, full penguin regalia, although I don't think I'll shave my head.
:)

LB>And Al has already mentioned wearing a T-shirt that says "I'm Hector".

Didja hear -- he's going to come as a priest instead!

LB>OH!  And Katherine's going to have an ecumenical Chocolate Ritual!!

KW> We'll have to do this outside.  All those handfuls of chocolate chips
KW> broadcast make a real mess in the carpeting.  And I will need four
KW> volunteers to call the quarters (they get to eat the offerings).

ME!!!! ME!!!!!!!! ME!!!!!!!!!

LB>And I absolutely INSIST that Judith hold a mini-revival.

KW> Lynda, that's brilliant.  That would pay for the whole thing. 

HAH!  Gee, maybe we can get her to stage one BEFOREHAND, to pay our way.
She can say it's to "send missionaries into the field"!



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Another smooth escape disguised as a dramatic exit.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  QUESTIONING ALL BUT
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:53:37
EID:c380 202a9ea0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eb3
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f35cb5
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Katherine and Robert were killing time yakking about QUESTIONING ALL BUT:

KW> No, he's not.  I got caught in one of those.  There are kind of little
KW> silly things that wiccans can and will argue over.  
I
KW> think it is because we don't have a 'one book' to argue over.  Poor
us. 

RJ> Look at the religionoids who do have "one book".  They fight
RJ> wars over piddly little shit like "deepwater" or "sprinkle".
RJ> It doesn't even take a grand scale of view to see that that's
RJ> just as trivial and insignificant a reason as which end of an
RJ> egg to break for breakfast.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BREAK THE EGG ON THE END, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO CRACK
IT IN THE MIDDLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  DIE, SCUMBUCKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew, sorry, lost my head there for a second -- but I feel MUCH better now....
really....




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A good memory is one trained to forget the trivial.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 10 Jan 96  19:56:14
EID:4e86 202a9f00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f47eb4
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 42be83cc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dan and Katherine were killing time yakking about REDACTED STORIES:

C>I've got orphan socks.  Strange, too, as they are all supposed to
DC>be the same color and style..  I think the washing machine eats 
DC>them, just like the dishwasher god requires an offering of a spoon. 


KW>   You know, I must have a purse Goddess with a taste
KW> for good fountain pens.

Around here, the elves take particular delight in walking off with ponytail
holders and barrettes.  Vain little critters.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "I tried to contain myself but I escaped."

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 1/1 11/157 13/13 100/525 102/0 735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103
SEEN-BY: 105/330 107/411 941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 279/14 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801 102/890


|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Katherin