God Damned Fundies!
|From: AL SCHROEDER
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: NO JESUS 2
|Date: 09 Jan 96 20:22:00
EID:0265 2029a2c0
AS> It always kind of amused me that all these characters in STAR WARS
AS> had Biblical names, like Luke Skywalker. (For that matter, Superman's
DC> Not as badly as they used them in "Battlestar Gallactica".
Someone was mentioning that the Mormons had a lot of influence on the
scripts...
AS> family name was El, which Siegal and Shuster, as the Jewish youths
AS> they were, would have known meant "God").
DC> Thanks for noticing that. I remember all of the xxx-El's, but
DC> never made that connection.
Of course, remember that the creator of Superman's last name is Siegal.
A recent revamp made Superman's grandfather named Seyg-El, as a sort of
tribute...(and "Krypton" really means "unknown"--the element was named
such because at first they weren't sure what it was...so it's not so hokey
a name for a planet as you might think. Certainly sounds niftier than
"Planet X" or something.)
AS> WIth reason. Their position was already precarious, chosen by an
AS> outsider like Herod, and the people knew it.
DC> Herod wasn't so much as an outsider but a pragmatist. He knew
DC> where his bread was buttered.
And a ruler who is around during the early years of the Empire (as opposed
to the Republic) had to tread carefully. Augustus and Claudius were halfway
decent, but Tiberius, Caligula, Nero...not the best Emperors to work under
if you have a hankering to keep your head on your shoulders...
AS> Which is why he was judged guilty of blasphmey by the Sanhedrin and
AS> sedition against the crown by the Romans.
DC> Best guess, if any of the story is real, the Sanherin trial
DC> failed utterly. The political trial was a set up by the Sadducees
DC> to preserve their power-base.
I think there are certainly some suspicious aspects to it...the trial by
night, for the most part, and suspect that only a select group of the
Sanhedrin, those sympathetic with Caiphas who were summoned in time,
waiting for the trial. The others, those more sympathetic, didn't get
there until it was too late. I think Caiphas was determined to get rid of
this troublemaker, and was willing to bend the Law to do it. Joseph and
Nicodemus probably didn't get to participlate until He was already in
front of Pilate. The political trial was definitely a set up.
AS> But believing a man was God WAS blasphemy.
DC> Yet, Gamaliel defends their belief.
He at least lets God do the deciding. In the typical Jewish fashion of
thinking God works through history (which is the way the history of the
Bible is viewed) he felt that either God would make such a belief prosper,
if it was real, or destroy it, if it was not.
How late did Gamaliel live, I wonder? Did he live to see it become a
somewhat influential cult?
(Checking a reference book). Hmmm. 18 years after the fall of Jerusalem
he lived. I wonder if he ever regretted his clemency?
... Jesus lefthanded? Sure! He was perfect, wasn't he?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 4.00F2
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ATHIEST AGAINST ABORTION
|Date: 08 Jan 96 22:02:02
EID:e5c6 2028b040
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 d1a5c70f
On (07 Jan 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Michael Hardy...
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Dan Ceppa <=-
MH> Try searching in the Constitution for a reference that specifically
MH> guarantees the right to abortion.
JB> The case was decided under the right to privacy that the Constitution
JB> DOES guarantee, and the premise that what a woman and her doctor
JB> decide is covered under that right of privacy.
No, there is no right to privacy explicitly mentioned in the USC.
Actually, the SC went all the way out on a limb to the word
"penumbra" in order to justify the right to choose. It was their
contention that privacy rested in the "penumbra" under which the
gov't could not search or seize your goods without due process,
which they did a stretch and defined as "privacy."
Roe v. Wade is an interesting case to read sometime. Nowhere in
that case does the USSC mention a "right to privacy," because we
quite frankly are not guaranteed such a right explicitly under
the USSC.
... 23rd Rule of Creationism: Claim superiority for Christian education.
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Homosexual Christians
|Date: 08 Jan 96 22:08:14
EID:bebb 2028b100
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 00d5e235
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f0a7c3
On (07 Jan 96) Robert Jackson wrote to Dan Ceppa...
DC> I think that Raven is starting to get in the swing of things.
DC> Though he may have read some before he jumped in here, it
DC> looks like he is learning the frustration of dealing with
DC> the brain dead.
RJ> I can't tell you how often, as I scan through the index
RJ> for newbies, they turn out to be fundies as bad or worse
RJ> than our standard crop--and I have to slump really low in
RJ> my chair to read what's on my screen while peeking through
RJ> my fingers. It gets pretty damn irritating simply because
RJ> they keep coming and coming and coming...there's really no
RJ> bottom to the Idiot Well, is there?
Fundies don't come; they don't even allow themselves to breathe hard.
... Think hard now! Which one is Shinola?`
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: subjection
|Date: 08 Jan 96 22:19:19
EID:3008 2028b260
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 6f40f772
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 0f0447e5
On (07 Jan 96) Ryan Shaw wrote to Maria Russell...
RS> Maria Russell wrote in a message to Katherine Wintersnight:
MR> Oh Katherine, you are being so silly now. The husband is the
MR> final authority in the home.
RS> And you do this to yourself?
RS> I plan on finding a woman that is just as opinionated as I am when and
RS> if I marry. We'll treat each other as _equals_.
MR> with slavery. If you recall (I know I have said it before), the
MR> Bible tells men to love their wives as themselves. No man
RS> If they did, they wouldn't have the `christian power trips' over them.
Ryan,
It really isn't that difficult, so long as you make up your mind to
do what you want to do, and allow your wife to do what she wants to
do. I've never understood these couples that always do everything
together, like they were joined at the hip or something. Where is
it written that just because my husband wants to go to a movie, I
have to want to go to one, too -- and the SAME one at that? We do
things together when we want to, and do things separately when it
suits us. For us, it is still working after nearly 32 years.
... "Here, fundy, fundy, fundy. Nice fundy...***<<>>***"
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Mark Drake
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Gods, not god
|Date: 09 Jan 96 09:24:10
EID:a624 20294b00
MSGID: 1:128/175 30f23479
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1c538
PID: GED G0615
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8328
Hello Gwenny!
Tuesday January 09 1996 01:29, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to William Childress:
WC>>> The gods you referenced are false. I.E., they are not what they are
WC>>> represented as.
GtP> I worship the Earth. She exists and all we have comes from Her.
Not to mention, we all return to her.
GtP> + Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
Mark
---
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|From: Mark Drake
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: CHRISTMAS
|Date: 09 Jan 96 09:36:56
EID:ed31 20294c80
MSGID: 1:128/175 30f23802
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30f1d939
PID: GED G0615
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8328
Hello Gwenny!
Tuesday January 09 1996 02:49, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Judith Bandsma:
JJ>>> But don't those secular aspects have fairly solid roots in the
JJ>>> Christmas story itself? It still offends me to see nonbelievers
JJ>>> embrace these celebrations, which have their root in our faith, while
JJ>>> denouncing the faith itself.
JB>> A christmas tree is NOT, repeat NOT, a christian symbol. Why do you
use
JB>> a symbol with roots in the pagan tradition while denouncing pagans?
Do
JB>> you use lights on your tree? Not a far step from the burning of the
JB>> Yule log to provide light during the long winter night. NOT a christian
JB>> tradition. Kiss under the mistletoe? Why, you're a DRUID and didn't
JB>> even realize it. Leave out cookies and milk for Santa? Shades of
JB>> pixies! (or brownies, or elves, or kabouters, or whatever your European
JB>> background called them)
GtP> Hey, you should enjoy this song...although it's a little late for the
most
GtP> recent Christmas...
GtP> Hope you had a nice MidWinter Tree Sacrifice.
Here is another one for everyone:
KILL A TREE
Sung to Jingle Bells
by Ali Katz
Dashing to the mall, in a fleet of rented trucks,
A million hairless apes, are out to spend some bucks.
It's Christmas time again - or maybe World War II-
And to keep their spirits happy they've got to kill a tree.
CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.
2nd verse
We know we each deserve, a ton or two of crap,
But to keep the goodies coming, we've got to spill some sap,
And string electric lights, and raise the ritual star,
And to bribe out friends and family to forget what jerks we are.
CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.
Last verse
We always kill a tree. That's always been enough.
For videos and Gi Joes and all the kiddy stuff
But Mommy wants a Harley, and Daddy wants a boat
That's prob'ly gonna cost at least a chicken and a goat
CHORUS
Oh, kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ.
(Jolly old Saint Nicholas accept this sacrifice)
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We're not sure what were doing, but it seems to turn out nice.
As Gwenny said, it's a little late, but save it for next Yule.
Mark
---
* Origin: Cult of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits, 1st Circle (719)632-0057 (1:128/175)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: A Visit 4/4
|Date: 09 Jan 96 22:29:30
EID:e71c 2029b3a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35418
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1c1eb0b2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Katherine were killing time yakking about A Visit 4/4:
LB> CM> wrong with a joke? What is wrong with two people having sex outside
LB> CM> (where God probably wanted it), etc?
LB>"Married, Will Cheat?"
KW> Do you think that's what he means by 'having sex
KW> outside'? I guess that's where 'Three or Moresomes' comes in.
Right. I don't see anything wrong with sex outdoors (unless it's on your
neighbors lawn without their permission, of course), but there is no
justification for "cheating" -- which implies a deliberate attempt to
deceive your spouse, from either a Christian standpoint, OR from any view
which values honor and honesty. I found it hideous that he would attempt
to justify those echos by dragging in God as co-conspirator.
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Don't look conspicuous. It draws enemy fire.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Maria Russell
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 09 Jan 96 22:37:10
EID:6f14 2029b4a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f35419
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b3
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Maria were killing time yakking about Abortion:
LB> Hi, Dick! Welcome to Holysmoke.
LB> To get you up to speed on the participants of this particular
LB> conversation, Maria IS a literalist. David is not a Christian, does
MR>
MR> Thank you for the compliment. I'm glad my position is clear. But I am
Not a compliment -- simply a statement of fact, which you've confirmed.
Don't read anything more to it then that -- it was a neutral description
of your views.
MR> still wondering about yours. Are you a Christian? I really can't tell.
I suppose you'll simply have to decide whether to take me at my word on
it
or not. I see many things from you that are insulting (IMO) to God, and
a gross twisting of Jesus' words into the pettiest justification for bigotry
and spite. But I will not question whether or not you are Christian when
you say you are -- that is between you and God, and I trust in Him to deal
with you accordingly. Will you allow the same to me, or would you like
to
continue questioning that which scripture has told you not to?
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "I can't make it out. It's either WELCOME or KEEP AWAY" -Moe
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 09 Jan 96 23:00:51
EID:ef55 2029b800
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541a
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098c0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Maria were killing time yakking about A LITTLE HELP FROM SP:
JB> Most of the WORK involves finding sites, getting permits, paying off
JB> the local police. I know that's hard for some to believe, but almost
JB> all places we ever set up required a 'donation' to the local sheriff.
JB> Negotiating that donation's size could be the hardest part of all. Then
JB> arranging for electricity, water, etc. Not the glamourous stuff it
JB> might seem.
MR> ========================rest of claptrap
MR> deleted=======================
MR> Only PROVES that there are still charlatans in the world and YOU are
MR> part of it. The revival I assisted in didn't have the trappings you
MR> showed. OURs were sincere!!!! You are a total mockery!!!! And you
MR> accuse Christians of behaving contrary to what they "preach". Can you
MR> say HYPOCRISY? Can you say THIEF? Can you say LIAR? Can you say
MR> APOSTASY?
Can you say HISSY-FIT??!
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Stop, or I'll say stop again." -- British Police
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: All
|Sub: imploring
|Date: 09 Jan 96 23:56:08
EID:c09f 2029bf00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30f3541b
REPLY: 1:141/1299.0 30f098b5
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Steve and Maria were killing time yakking about imploring:
KW>