God Damned Fundies!

---

11 Years of HolySmoke


|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Mormon Madness
|Date: 18 Jan 96  14:20:46
EID:4bd5 20327280
PID: SX 4.3 BT026
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
On 6 Jan 96 11:49pm, Fredric Rice wrote to Steve Quarrella:

FR> ~*~  I would give all I owned to the Church. I know Jesus
FR> Christ directs the affairs of the Church and would without
FR> question give it all. - Ric Remington (Mormon)
sq> Question:  Why then was "Jesus Christ" duped by Mark Hofmann's
sq> Salamander letter (and other neat forgeries)?
FR> Oh I know Ric's answer:  "Why do you hate god so much!" 

I am rather hopeful that someone from LoDS Land will prance through here

some day and argue this issue with me.


... "Sliver" Xpress ..... the movie!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3 BT026
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Jesse Jones
|Sub:  Flaming asshole
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:19:58
EID:eeb0 20347260
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
17 Jan 96, dixit Jesse Jones ad Robert Jackson:

JJ>      I gather, then, that contrary to your original taunt, you 
JJ>      are incapable or unwilling (or both) to show me an 
JJ>      in-depth logical argument.

We've been saying the same thing about you for a long time now, but we still
make attempts to make contact.


... Valencia:  "Occupy my brain."  1:124/9005
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:21:52
EID:8958 203472a0
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
17 Jan 96, dixit Robert Jackson ad Jesse Jones:

RJ>         Oh well, at least I won't have to worry about you 
RJ>         responding to this, as I didn't include any nasty words 
RJ>         or snide remarks. 

I've sent him many of these...simply disagreeing with him about "things
divine" seems to be a "nasty word" or "snide remark" in and of itself.


... Four legs good, two legs better!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  Kirk Bailey
|Date: 18 Jan 96  16:16:12
EID:5ae3 20328200
PID: SX 4.3 BT026
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
On 2 Jan 96 01:39am, J.J. Hitt wrote to Steve Quarrella:

JH>  As you may have heard, the majority of concealed weapons
JH>  permits have been issued to senior citizens.

"George Burns shoots thug on 100th birthday."



... Cross your legs...we only have THREE nails!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3 BT026
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  New
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:25:08
EID:70a1 20346b20
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
7 Jan 96, dixit Maria Russell ad Sean McCullough:

> How's the wife and kids?
SM> Why don't you send me a small sample of that LSD you're obviously high
SM> as a kite on, and I'll tell you. 
MR> That's it...You're a dope fiend! 

Isn't this a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?  Rather than dropping
acid or putting a needle into your veins, you inhale Jesus.  There's no
difference.

However, I'm not certain how as to how you conclude that Sean is a "dope
fiend" from what he's saying here.  Would you like to elaborate?

MR> That answers all my questions 
MR> now. You are the dippy hippy from the 60s and you are still 
MR> spaced out...Uh oh...he's going to say I'm slandering him 
MR> again. This from a guy who tears down my beliefs...Go figure.

  Sean wins...you pissed your pants in front of all of us trying
to
be cute.

MR> So if it's ONLY words, why choose specifically God's name?

Why don't you go find a good reading list on the history of the English
language and discover -why.-  You confuse historical oaths with active
belief.

> Why bother, you already have your mind made up.

This is a constant friend of yours.

MR>  But you are the one asking the question and you are the one 
MR>  who has already made his mind up.

Any scientist worth his salt is going to maintain an open mind towards
evidence that may add to or discredit known facts or theories.  Sean has
most
likely made up his mind because of a lack of evidence, so rather than
weaseling out with this clich‚d cop-out, perhaps you should provide him
with
some evidence.

MR>  And as I have said before, 
MR>  I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.

Liar...you just finished wasting your time trying to convince me why you're
not worthy of participating in the priesthood.

MR>  You and I both 
MR>  know that NO ONE has changed his belief because of anything 
MR>  said by anyone else on here.

I have moved away from deism in the several years I've been here.  Would
you
like to try again?

MR> Let me give you a scenario. If I called you on the telephone, 
MR> could you prove to me that the person I was talking to was 
MR> really you?

You are talking apples and oranges.  Sean would not be calling to claim
that
he's some deity. 

Now, if someone called your house and said "I'm God...you shall give up
all
of your possessions and go work in the Third World," would you listen to
the
caller at the other end of the line?  What if God really DID call and you
ignored the call as that of a crank?  Wouldn't you want some kind of evidence
that that was indeed calling on the telephone?  If that's funny to you,
remember that the Lord works in mysterious ways (to confound the wise).

Hint:  You and your ilk are considered to be cranks by many of us here,
for
the same reasons.

MR> had never seen you in the first place. In all actuality there 
MR> is no way for you to prove to me that you even exist.

Sean makes no claim to be a deity.

MR> Unless you could show me that you exist,

So, why do you not apply the same logic to your deities?  How is Sean's
calling on the telephone any different from hearing a voice in your head
and
claiming it to be "God?"

MR> Do you want to be considered dishonest, Sean??

I already consider you to be so through your evasion of the issues.

SM> You have only two alternatives to being considered a liar. Either
SM> produce your God for my examination, or admit publically that there
is
SM> no such thing. 

MR> And you only have two alternatives to be considered a liar. 
MR> Either produce yourself for examination (which I still wouldn't 
MR> believe is you, since I have never seen you before), or admit 

It's rather cute when the Fundies attempt mimicry to avoid the tough
questions.  Is God proud of you when you deny him so?


... Real Jugglers have LEATHER balls
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  New
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:10:04
EID:70a1 20346940
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
On 7 Jan 96 03:52am, Maria Russell wrote to Steve Quarrella:

> ... If God doesn't exist, why is His name used so much?

SQ> If you ascribe some kind of meaning to the interjections and oaths
SQ> that are utttered by others, I would be curious to think of your views
MR>                        O O
MR> -----------------------/-\-----snip---------------

Afraid of a few expletives, are you? :)

SQ> would it be reasonable for me to deduce that you might accuse me of
SQ> idolizing feces or sexual intercourse?

Answer the question.  You imply that people believe in God because they
say "Oh, God" as an interjection.  If someone says "Oh, shit" or "Oh, fuck,"
are you by rote implying that they deify feces or sexual relations?

SQ> [Yes, I know, this is an opening
SQ> for you to get in a quick insult of my intelligence or upbringing
SQ> because of my use of language that is offensive to you.  I would hope
SQ> that you as a Christian could refrain from such behaviour.]
MR>  
MR>  Ok, I won't. But my question to you is this. 

Answer my question first.

MR> Would you talk the same way around your mother or child? If not, why?

Here is where you get into trouble, assuming that someone else feels the
same
way towards "vulgar" language as you do.

I -do- use these terms around my parents, Maria.  I'm a linguist by education,
and I am acquainted with the history and development of many words and
phrases (and with some of the reasons as to WHY they are considered to be
"vulgar").  There are times when certain "vulgarities" can be used to
convey a precise meaning or sentiment.  If I say "Just leave" to the cultists
at my door, they don't get quite the same impression as they might if I
had
said "Get the fuck out of here, assholes, and don't come back!"  What I
expect is that you will allege (and I will call you on it) is that every

third word out of my mouth is "fuck" around my parents, as you confuse the
use of vulgarity with wanton use of vulgarity.  Language is a tool, nothing
more, and if I can get a rise out of you by saying "dogshit," I have used
the tool effectively.

Would I allow my children to use these terms?  Around me or my wife, yes,
but Junior would ALSO be educated as to the history of "vulgar language,"
and that includes why it offends people and why it should be used as a tool
and not a conversation piece.

MR>   And I bet you say "oh peanutbutter" all the time as well as 
MR>   "fiddlesticks".

No, because those terms have no cathartic value in the situations where
I may
utter expletives.

SQ> So what are you trying to suggest?  Let's go for the big money here.
I
SQ> was actually going to write my doctoral thesis on the cathartic value
SQ> of expletives and interjections, so perhaps I can dig out my notes.
MR> Now this thesis would be rather short since there isn't any cleansing

MR> value of such things.

What is "cleansing value?"  I am not familiar with this term from a
linguistical standpoint.  Is "cleansing value" synonymous with "things certain
Christians find to be inoffensive?"

MR> If you are considering cathartic as being  a stress release......sure,

MR> you are correct.

Of course I'm correct.  You on the other hand are attempting to be a
linguistical Gish or Morris.

SM> Whether or not you agree, the Bible is just such a piece of work: a
SM> work of fantasaical fiction written around an historical core
SM> Show me otherwise, Maria. Cough up your God.
MR> Why bother,
SQ> Because he asked you to do so?  
MR>  No, he's already  made up his mind not to listen as you have also.

Sure I'll listen.  Go ahead, and then I'll ask you some questions.

SQ>  Why is it that you, Jones, Morrison,
SQ> and a  plethora of other Clowns for Jesus fail to realize that you
SQ> would have  converts by the dozen if you could simply provide evidence
SQ> for your claims? A burning bush would be nice, although what I'd really
SQ> like to see is a wave of a holy hand that would cure starvation in the
SQ> Third World.  
MR> Then you would probably give credit to Clinton anyways

Attempting to dodge the issue won't make the question go away.  Would you
like to try again?  If you want converts, you can easily get them simply
by
providing some kind of evidence for what you're saying.

SQ> If you want to stomp your feet and whine that we
SQ> "heathens" ask you to make "God" jump through our hoops, stop to
SQ> consider that the request would not made if you would simply grow up,
SQ> refrain from spouting fairy tales as fact, and demanding that we jump
SQ> through "God's" hoops. 
MR> Steve, I have been saved almost 20 years now

That's nice.  Now, would you like to address the issue at hand?  Twenty
years of your life really isn't evidence to support your claims.

MR> and I learned long ago that one can't be forced to want God. 

Perhaps the idea of adults talking to the voices in their heads may have
a
little something to do with that.

MR> brings a person to the saving knowledge of Christ. What does bring a

MR> person there is when he/she gets to the lowest part of their life where

MR> they have no other place to go but look upward. It's then that they

MR> reach upward to God. 

You sound just like Jesse Jones.  I've been through the "saved" routine
already.  Many of the lucky winners we have here who spout off about this
nonsense are simply unable to take responsibility for having turned their
own lives around, and as they have such a low sense of self-worth they
place the responsibility on fictional superfriends.  Yeah, Maria, I
"blamed God" for straightening out my life, until I figured out that _I_
straightened it out without help from something out of a Alfred Hitchcock
movie.

Is this where you tell me that I'm "angry" with God? :)


... Tengo pregunta, ¨Qu‚ es un Dopefish?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Maria Russell
|Sub:  authority
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:48:12
EID:944e 20346e00
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
7 Jan 96, dixit Maria Russell ad Sean McCullough:

SM> My parents weren't able to run THEIR OWN lives until well into my
SM> adulthood, Maria. 
MR>  So you are from a disfunctional family...that explains a lot

As were you, I might guess, the way you clamor on about "subjection and
obedience" to your parents.  They trained you very well, didn't they?

SM> Oh, by the way: You might want to run this little line of yours BY Mr.
SM> Quarrella and see what he has to say about it. In fact, I think I will
SM> do so and save you the trouble. 
MR>  Sorry...he already did...thank you.

I did what?

SM> Steve is a well-paid systems programmer with several well-known
SM> software companies. 
MR> And that has to do with what? 

It has to do with someone's coming from a dysfunctional family who doesn't
have to resort to belief in spirits to be successful in life.  You might
try
it some time.

MR> He as well as all of us still have authorities over us.

Well, you could start with my boss, but that has to do with...what?  Are
you
going to pull a Jesse and tell me how I'm subject to the spooks you hear
in
your head, and no, you won't provide any evidence for that claim?

MR> Maybe that's what is was in your home...but don't take that to 
MR> mean it's the same in everyone else's.

So why do you claim Sean to be a "dope fiend?"

MR> Do what? Obedience is when a parent says...Johnny clean your 
MR> room and Johnny does it. What are you talking about?

And if Johnny says "No," what do you do?

MR>  You haven't a clue as to what I am talking about. 

It IS difficult to understand the rantings of the mentally ill.  However,
I
can assure you that many of us here do our best to observe you and attempt
to
understand why you behave the way you do so as to minimize any possible
danger that you may present to us or to our families.  Certainly many people
will be wary of those who claim to hear voices in their heads, and I am
no
exception to that.  Some of those people are harmless, and present no threat,
but there are others who rattle on about how "empty" we all are and how
we
must be in "obedience and subjection" to their deities:  These are the
dangerous ones who seek to save us from ourselves.

MR> And you are totally off base here! 

Sorry, but "'nuff said" won't make the hurtful issues go away.  Try again.

SM> You have admitted here that I have utterly defeated you; you realize
SM> this, don't you?? 

It's all over but the shouting, Maria.  You came into the field looking
for
sheep, and you found wolves and lions who are more than capable of taking
care of themselves without the aid of some guy with a crook.

MR>  In your dreams! Because you have NEVER supplied me with any 
MR>  facts, just the rantings of your mind.

Is this "Irony Week" or something?  By comparison (or by contrast), what
have
you provided?


... "1024 x 768 x 256?"  Sounds like one mean woman!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Pope-A-Question
|Date: 20 Jan 96  15:02:04
EID:862d 20347840
PID: SX 4.3P DOPEFISH
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
19 Jan 96, dixit Robert Jackson ad Steve Quarrella:

JH>  I recently heard a catholic on the radio claim that there were
JH>  two black popes. They gave the names, but I missed the names other
JH>  than that they sounded "kinda Latin".
SQ> You might aim this one at Sean McCullough...I think he shot this one
SQ> out of the sky a while back. I've seen the rare reference to an
SQ> antipope as a "black pope," but there were far more than two antipopes.

The only other reference I can recall is that the head of the Jesuits is
referred to as "the black pope."  One of my books mentions that a few popes
were from Africa...maybe that's the source of this.


... If thinking is too hard, quote Scripture!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P DOPEFISH
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Cartoon in USA Today
|Date: 20 Jan 96  15:55:16
EID:391f 20347ee0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 31011072
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30fedbd1
PID: GED3 2.5 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!

Jovis dies January 18 1996, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:

SQ>> I'll have to attach in mail for you the OJ Simpson Windows icons I
SQ>> just downloaded today.
DW> Can you attach 'em to my next Thump_It packet?

Done deal...the one of Ito is the best of the lot.

--- GoldED 2.50+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Leon Askin Fan Club - 214/412-8457 (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  MR. MILLER...PROBLEM?
|Date: 19 Jan 96  17:29:00
EID:7939 20338ba0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jim Staal <=-

AS> men) everywhere? And how far from Jesus' teachings that is?

You're asking this of someone who thinks Jimmy Swaggart is one of the
best examples of christianity this country has to offer. 



... Therapy is good, but screaming obsceneties is cheaper.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3603/361 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/1 25 48 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 19 Jan 96  17:31:00
EID:c382 20338be0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jm Staal <=-

JS> something for the pain. Lon's father, the same way: the man screams
in
JS> pain and they do nothing for it), but hating me or God won't change

AS> "History? Toast?" If your father is in pain, how would you like

I have another question. How does Jim know what is going on with 'Lon's'
father when he says he doesn't know the guy? And why no mention of his
own father? I'm beginning to think the 'S' in Lon S. Mabon stand for Staal.
And has all along.



... Experiencing tagline difficulties, please stand by.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Hilling
|Sub:  15 MINUTES OF FAME
|Date: 19 Jan 96  18:23:00
EID:459c 203392e0
-=> Quoting David Hilling to All <=-

DH> _One of_, my ass. That reminds me, MR. Rollins; what exactly _does_
a
DH> goat's penis tatse like?

I don't know if I had anything 'nice' to say to him this time around or
not. But I'll bet Kris is disagreeing with him...especially with MY last
post to her in hand.

I almost wish I could pull that echo. Wouldn't it just make their little
hearts go pitty-pat  to find out that **I** have family in
Smoke Hole? 


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Douglas Duke
|Sub:  SPEAR IN SIDE
|Date: 19 Jan 96  18:04:00
EID:bed3 20339080
-=> Quoting Douglas Duke to Preston Simpson <=-

DD> After the resurrection on that first first-day sabbath, JESUS met

Can you tell me how most christians get 3 days out of a time span from
Friday afternoon to Sunday morning? I can't even get it to stretch to 48
hours, let alone 72.


... Revenge is damp - any cat.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 20 Jan 96  08:00:00
EID:c382 20344000
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Judith Bandsma <=-

AS> He did what? (stark disbelief.)
AS> (Slowly building fury.) He did WHAT????
AS> Here I was feeling bad I might have been too harsh with him, calling
AS> his JFK-bugaboo "nuttier than a jar of Planter's." Good to know. I had
AS> no idea he had gone that far.

Yeah, he did that. And recently I saw where he had put in a post something
on the order of 'where did I put that book of jokes about queers with
AIDS'. Some may have thought it was his attempt at humor. I don't.


... I agreed to suspend my disbelief, not hang it until dead.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  QUALITY FUNDY TIME
|Date: 20 Jan 96  08:11:00
EID:3c98 20344160
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Fredric Rice <=-

DW> I think we're finally making a dent in their reserves.  Give us two
DW> hundred more years, and we'll be facing "Tim Allen" grunters.

Do you really think they'll progress that far in that short a time?


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  A DAY IN THE LIFE...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  08:13:00
EID:31f7 203441a0
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Judith Bandsma <=-

DW> Have you seen Giger's _Biomechanics_?  It's a coffee table art book
DW> (that's big enough to double as a coffee table with the addition of
DW> four legs) that was only printed in Germany (I think).  My sister
DW> picked up a copy for me when she saw that Harlan Ellison had done the
DW> introduction. 
DW> It's pretty damned unsettling, too.

No, haven't seen that one. Maybe I'll look for it next time we go to
Holland. (I've seen more of his stuff there than I have here.) I have a
photo here of him in the doorway of his bar in Switzerland. The handles
are carved into some of his 'creations'. And I bought 'Dark Seed', the
game, because he did the artwork for it. Stupid game, but the scenes are
absolutely wonderful.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub:  THIS TOTALLY BLOWS M
|Date: 20 Jan 96  08:18:00
EID:394b 20344240
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Judith Bandsma <=-

GTP> YOU'RE KIDDING??  Even as a child I knew the origins of Oz (much
GTP> similiar to some of the Southern states) and about Botany Bay.

I DO live in South Carolina after all.  Just to check, I asked the
neighbor's 15 year old grandson about it the other day. He didn't have
the foggiest notion of what I was talking about. Seems like the only
thing they are teaching nowadays about the settlement of other countries
is the settlement of the US. He knew NOTHING about the British Empire or
the Spanish conquests of Central America, etc. When I asked him if he had
any idea why people in Mexico speak a form of Spanish, all he could say
was 'they just do'. This is not a stupid kid either...straight 'a' student,
skipped 2 grades and will graduate next year. I couldn't believe what I
was hearing.

No wonder people seem to think the US *is* the world. They aren't being
taught any different. Dangerous precedent...very dangerous.


... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 911
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 372/911 3619/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Steve Rose
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  PERCEPTION OF THE SPI
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:17:51
EID:f887 20346a20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1011497e
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
AL SCHROEDER wrote in a message to ROB BURCHAM:

AS> So theists can be sometimes verbal punching bags for
AS> what you have been  thinking for years--?

And why not?  They have been perfect PHYSICAL punching-bags for a lot longer.
Best is when you crouch behind one who is stupidly standing on some street
corner just babbling on with their usual bullshit...and have a friend push
him backwards.  You can HEAR their shouted obscenities from a mile away!

--- timEd/2 1.10+
* Origin:  * Above Board *  (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Steve Rose
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Babble Follies
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:31:06
EID:c206 20346be0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 10114981
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 60c8064c
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
JH>>  You have them too?
SQ>> I want them gone.

SR> I threw a wad of chewed-up gum into one of their money 
SR> buckets.  It had already lost its flavor.

JJH>  Anyone know where you can get those exploding dye packets
JJH>  that banks use?  (Without robbing a bank, that is...)

Gives new purposes to the all too familiar Stink-Bomb!  Drop one in and
thank them for being such a perfectly open fundy target as you speed off.

JJH> But I bet they would have a REAL hard time keeping those 
JJH> suits white while trying to clean out their bucket after
JJH> someone had dumped a cup full of used copier toner into it. 

Hmmmm!  Not bad.  Up to this point...I've simply been emptying the ash-tray!


--- timEd/2 1.10+
* Origin:  * Above Board *  (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  THUMB-SUCKING FUNDY
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:31:27
EID:f1c3 20346be0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 10114982
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 60cf59ff
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to AL SCHROEDER:

MG> But still, we're many light years from out nearest other solar 
MG> system.  Why would life in a life engineered universe be so 
MG> sparse?  If indeed we are the only ones here, why so infinitely 
MG> sparse?

They found those two 'possibly suited for life' planets located orbiting
somewhere in the area of the 'Big Dipper.'  Still nothing considered concrete.

MG> These are interesting theories, but still my question is that if
MG> the universe is engineered for life, then why is there none here? 

These fundies wish to dream of limitless immortality and endless eternal
existences on all sorts of goofy 'etheric planes'...when they fail to acknowledge
the universal realms that exist within our own back yard of space.

--- timEd/2 1.10+
* Origin:  * Above Board *  (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 20 Jan 96  08:02:49
EID:297e 20344040
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149f9
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89090E38
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Dan were killing time yakking about Fundamentalists R Us:

LB> Jim and Jose were killing time yakking about Fundamentalists R Us:

JG> Samson strength was NOT in His hair!! it was in the Pact that he had

LB> Jose -- this makes THREE posts from you that have apparently just been
LB> shot forth at random, 


DC> Jim, not being Random, didn't bother to duck...

*chuckle*  I dunno --Jim's about the most random regular in Holysmoke --
you
never know WHAT name will be up top!

LB> them.  I seriously doubt Jim needs YOU to explain the tale to him and

DC> Now, just how long have you been reading Jim's posts?  Are you 
DC> really _that_ sure about it?  

Well -- er.....

LB> STOP POSTING UNTIL YOU LEARN TO READ.  

DC> Not a good move, Lynda, as none of us will ever see another post 
DC> from Jose.  And, to think that you could have pawned Staal and 
DC> Gomez off on a beautiful relationship....  

It still might happen -- Gomez told me I shouldn't have said that -- makes
me
look "primative", dotcha know.  (guess he hasn't started those spelling
lessons
yet either)



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... New regulations means new jobs for new regulators!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 20 Jan 96  06:48:09
EID:8786 20343600
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149fa
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30ffe1ec
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Robert were killing time yakking about ARK:
LB> On an entirely different topic, I'm reading a history of astronomers,
LB> and one of the little tidbits that caught my eye was that Christian
LB> Huygens, in the late 1600s, designed an internal combustion
LB> engine...and did absolutely nothing with it, since it was just a little
LB> time-killer. 

RJ> Hey, could you give me that source?  When I took a class on
RJ> the Stuart dynasty, I did my termpaper on the Scientific
RJ> Revolution. Huygen's name popped up in my research on the
RJ> founding of the Royal Society, and he's better known for his
RJ> astronomical work, but seeing as I might consider going back to
RJ> history for a master's in something like history of science,
RJ> that's just the sort of thing I'd like to look into.

RJ> What sort of fuel?

Unfortunately, I can quote you the entire paragraph where it's mentioned
--
I'm sure a good biography of him would yield more.

It's from AND THERE WAS LIGHT by Rudolf Thiel, (about the history of astronomy)
and comes at the tag end of a chapter on Huygens, where it discusses his
contributions toward particle wave theory (he proposed that there was an
"ether" through which light and sound traveled) and calculus:

"The last of his inspirations was an effort to drive wheels by the force
of
exploding gunpowder, utilizing a kind of cannon with pistons that would
be
pushed back and forth by the explosions.  He hazily conceived the
internal-combustion engine two centuries before its birth."




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Be spontaneous ... combust.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  ABORTION
|Date: 20 Jan 96  07:09:29
EID:017d 20343920
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149fb
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 31003373
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Robert were killing time yakking about ABORTION:

JB> freemales here (typo intentional) are going to let her go unchallenged.
JB> Most of us have lived through too much that was justified 'in the name
JB> of god' to allow her to go without trying to shake her as much as
JB> possible. 

RJ> Good luck.  Any male that would try is just hopelessly deluded
RJ> by Satan's lies.  Only some non-ruled females are Satan's
RJ> minions, the others are just "angry" over their shitty deal in
RJ> the past, of which "God had nothing to do with it".  She might
RJ> listen to the latter on a visceral level, even as she ignores
RJ> and makes light of them.

It's not likely that anyone here will ever know if we got through to her
at
all.  But everyone has nights where they can't sleep and can't keep themselves
busy enough to avoid thinking when the words we've been trying not to listen
to DO sink in, even a little  And it might make a difference in such an
indirect way that even SHE never makes the connection.  Let's hope so, if
not
for Maria, then for her daughter's sake -- even though Maria has chosen
her
lifestyle, and seems content enough with it, she just might decide to allow
her daughter to know that she need not follow Mom's footsteps.  Maybe. (I
know
it's a slim hope)



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... It's only hopeless if you walk away.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Ken Wiens
|Sub:  Christian Jobs
|Date: 20 Jan 96  07:17:17
EID:08e9 20343a20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149fc
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 30fc3538
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Boni and Ken were killing time yakking about Christian Jobs:

BH>This is not the first time I have read an ad of this nature, and the
BH>more it happens, the ANGRIER I find myself!!!
BH> This is a real ad, taken from "The News Avertiser", January 7,
BH> 1996:

BH>  CHRISTIAN HORIZONS
BH>  Front line staff required to work with developmentally and
BH>  behaviourally challanged individuals in group home settings.
BH>  Working from a Christian perspective, education and experience
BH>  are required.
BH>  Apply in writing to:
BH>  575 Wentworth Street East,
BH>  Unit 20, Oshawa Ont.
BH>  etc. etc. etc.

KW> Looks fine to me. If the organization is owned and run by 
KW> christians why shouldn't they be able to choose who they
KW> want as employees?

BH>Now, I have also seen jobs for "Christian truckdriver wanted" and "Born
BH>again carpenter".

KW> Again, if the organization is owned and run by christians, why 
KW> can't they choose who they want?

The ad Boni is quoting sounds like the job itself entails some sort of
Christian based counselling, so I can see where it's legitimate enough to
want
someone who is Christian -- but truckdrivers and carpenters?  What would
their
religious orientation have to do with doing the job?  What if the ad said
"Jews need not apply"?  Would it still look okay to you?

KW> If the organization is owned and run by christians who want their
KW> employees to teach christianity then they should have a right to
KW> this kind of employee.

Why would a truckdriver or carpenter be expected to "teach Christianity"?

BH>NOTE TOO:  that the first qualification is to be Christian--the rest
BH>appear to be negotiable!

KW> The guy who owns the business calls the shots.

Can't say how it is in Canada, but here in the U.S. that's not exactly so
--
we have laws against discriminatory hiring practices.   Would it be okay
if
the ad said "Whites only."?





Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Balloons and Government both require Hot Air to float

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   George Rudzinsky
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 20 Jan 96  07:28:08
EID:b96c 20343b80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149fd
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30ffe249
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
George and Robert were killing time yakking about COINCIDENCE SEVEN:

GR> But there is going to come a day when dad won't be there to solve the
GR> problems. As a parent I can do nothing less than prepare him for that
GR> day, and that means teaching him how to solve his own problems.  It
GR> hurts to see him fail, it hurts to see him get frustrated, but it is
GR> worth that look on his face when he dusts himself off, with direction
GR> of course, and solves the problems. 
GR> It isn't the easy way, but it is the correct way.

George -- you just described perfectly the Christian concept of why God
lets
us make harmful mistakes (THE question flying around here recently).  Do
you
feel you are a bad or neglectful parent when you let your child fail?  Do
you
get off on watching him suffer, or does it bother you as much as it bothers
him?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "All great discoveries are made by mistake." -- Young's Law

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Female Circumcision, yet
|Date: 20 Jan 96  07:35:15
EID:01f0 20343c60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 310149fe
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 31003377
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David and Robert were killing time yakking about Female Circumcision, yet:

DW> The Angles just got there and took things over before the Saxons did.

RJ> ...who snicked it from the Gaels, who pilfered it from the
RJ> Picts, who drove out the...uh, who did the Picts displace?

The Toothbrushes.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "The Devil made me do it" (snicker)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Ann Nunn
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Helping fundies
|Date: 20 Jan 96  18:24:02
EID:d1c9 20349300
MSGID: 1:396/17.0 310187a2
FR>FR> Do you think there's really any chance of helping anyone?

FR>rv> It lays the ground work, for those who believe in the belief in the
FR>rv> worth of humans ,without any god or goddest.

FR>You know, that's probably what's important.  Letting people
FR>know that healthy, helpful, intelligent people can and do
FR>exist without deity constructs might just go a long way
FR>toward helping them understand that they don't need to
FR>continue to believe to live useful, productive lives/

I agree, and that's what I'd really like to do, but don't you think that
if I did, I might get fired from my job-- teaching high school?  
At the very least, I believe my job could get considerably more
difficult than it is.  It is in the nature of adolescents to be at war
with the grups (remember that StarTrek episode?), and they are clever
enough to find ways to divide and conquer.  Education, even public
education, is saturated with folks who are "good Christians"; elected
school boards are even more inundated by candidates who feel the need to
appear to be on God's side.  Them's the facts; sorry, but I don't feel
like committing sutee.

The rule is apparently, "Don't ask; don't tell."    On the school
grounds I follow that rule.

Ann
___
X OLX 2.1 TD X The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend

--- Maximus 3.00
* Origin: New Orleans P.C. Club (1:396/17)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Fundy Follies!
|Date: 19 Jan 96  13:43:07
EID:989c 20336d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 310153ed
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 90119a09
-=> Quoting Christian Miller to Sue Alexander <=-

CM> There was a point in time when I didn't believe in Christ, or God.
CM> My best friend was an atheist, and didn't believe either.  THEN I
CM> started thinking. 

Were you raised in a household that believed in God?  When you
started thinking, had you just acquired a new friend or 2?  Had you just
had an arguement with your best friend of that time?

CM> I realized that all of this (the world, etc.)
CM> could not have come about by itself.  I did not mutate from pond
CM> scum, or a monkey.  If  there was a "big bang", then God made it
CM> happen.

There are many deities that people worship out there, Christian.
Even if you discard the evidence around you that evolution occurs and
that life can come from "pond scum" when in the correct environment, how
do you *REALLY* know that it is your God that is out there making it
happen?  It could be Zeus, Odin, Gaia, or any of a number of other
deities, and if so they are probably pissed at you for not worshipping
them.

Sue

... The creationists are correct... THEY haven't evolved!.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  FOF
|Date: 20 Jan 96  02:57:08
EID:c296 20341720
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 310153ee
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 30fdbce0
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to J.J. Hitt <=-

SA> Hm.  I thought there was a pope who died of a gun wound back in the
SA> 70s or early 80s.  I guess my memory's just gotten muddled due to
SA> youth at the time, and the passage of time itself.  Did, perhaps,
SA> the last pope merely get shot, and then died of old age, to be
SA> replaced by the current one?

Actually, the pope who got shot IS the current pope.  He was shot in the
early 80's, close to the time of the assasination attempt on Reagan.  If
I remember correctly, he came very close to death from that, and that is
the reason that he now rides in the "popemobile".

Sue

... "Mr Worf! Fire at Will!" >BZZZT< "Hey, where's Riker?"
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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PATH: 121/45 8 106/2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  A DAY IN THE LIFE...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  10:41:02
EID:737f 20345520
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d6d1c9
AS> ...doesn't it give you a mild feeling of the willies to 
AS> know that Ronald Reagen, in charge of America during the 
AS> last stages of the Cold War, and access to the Button that 
AS> could Blow Us All Away, was getting advice from his wife's 
AS> astrologer?

No worse that the chill that still runs down my spine when I
remember that for about half the time he had his finger on
the button, he was under the impression ICBMs could be
recalled after being launched.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  We're having a FIESTA!
|Date: 20 Jan 96  10:57:40
EID:9f24 20345720
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d6fb4e
ML> Over in my neck of the woods (San Antonio East...ack...Katy), 
ML> there's a new "African Hair Goods and Food Store". If you need 
ML> ghoeuzhaco or "rift flattener", this is the place to go.

Seen recently in a 99 cent store: Dead Sea Salts for the bath (a
product of Jordan). Just in case your body has a shortage of heavy
metals, you can soak in this preparation (heavily scented with
menthol, probably for good reason).


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Boni Hitch
|Sub:  HAVE A HAPPY
|Date: 20 Jan 96  11:06:36
EID:93bd 203458c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d71b4c
REPLY: 1:250/1004 0712eb0b
BH> I'm not sure we *have* good and evil.  I think that is a 
BH> matter of human conception.  For example:  In human terms, 
BH> the holocaust was "evil". From this, the State of Isreal was 
BH> born and in human terms, this would be deemed, "good".  I 
BH> would be more inclined to say that the holocaust was 
BH> destructive, the building of Isreal constructive.

If you were one of the people who were already living in the 
land of Palestine when a bunch of Europeans decided to create
the nation of Israel you might have other ideas.

While I disagree with the methods used by the PLO and other 
groups acting in the name of the "Palestinian cause", the
Palestinians have a legitimate greivance that is every
bit as valid as that of any displaced people.


ooOOoo
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Sean McCullough
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 20 Jan 96  11:22:38
EID:3091 20345ac0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d72e12
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 0700c242
SM> Barbiophobia (the fear of sharp objects) exists in the 
SM> human race for a REASON.

Are you sure that isn't the fear of Barbie dolls?


ooOOoo
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* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Buttpimple Satanist Update
|Date: 20 Jan 96  11:27:39
EID:6ada 20345b60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d73aa9

On Jan 12 00:47 96, Asmodeus of 1:2330/20 wrote:

A> For speaking (writing) such stereotypical bullcrap I curse you, 
A> and for your lies about not doing so (if you were a man you would 
A> admit your actions) I damn you. 

A> See you in Hell! 

Today is Day NINE of my Satanic Curse.

Nothing has happened.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Jesus said "EAT ME!"
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:02:02
EID:f64a 20346840
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d83c82
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30fefddd
JG>> You are not eating him,

DW> You're damned right *I'm* not eating him.  Dave don't play 
DW> that shit.  You, on the other hand, eat his flesh and drink 
DW> his blood everytime you partake of Communion.  You're a 
DW> sick little bugger.

I'm sicker! I'm sicker!

It occurs to me that communion wafers have to come from 
somewhere. (I admit this isn't an incredibly brilliant
observation.) Some place like a bakery. So, it stands
to reason that there has to be a way to buy Jesus Chips
in bulk.

I think I'll check the local church supply stores and
see if I cant get a five or ten pound bag. I'll start 
out by trying Cheze-Whiz on Jesus. (I'll call it 
Chese-on-Jeeze.) Then I can try and see what sort of
dips he goes well with (not the sort of dips we have here on
the echo, but stuff like picante sauce).  Then there are
Jesus Nachos to try out. If I can get some of those Big
Hosts that some churches use, I'll see if I cant build
a pizza on top of them. Or maybe I'll just bust Jesus
up and eat him with soup and chili. If worst comes to
worst (Jesus simply doesn't taste good on anything), then
I'll grind him into crumbs and fry chicken with him.
Chicken ala Jesus.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Redacted Stories
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:19:50
EID:c3e0 20346a60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d8632d
REPLY: 1:271/460 30fa51d4
KM> I'll invite anyone to church.

I make it a point to accept such invitations.
(Not just churches but any "worship" festivity.)
However, I rarely get invited back a second time.

And only once, with a group of extremely nutty Nichiren
Shosttu Bhuddists, was I invited back a third time. 
These folks make a big deal about chanting, at breakneck
speed, a lengthy litany in Japanese. After I finally 
figured out the rythm, I started making up my own words, 
going "ding dong, ding ding dong, blah blah, walla-walla
bing-bang" in time along with them. 

Yet they were so desparate for converts they still wanted
me to come back yet again... (and frankly, that scared
the shit out of me).


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Soul train
|Date: 20 Jan 96  13:44:02
EID:a981 20346d80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d88b63
REPLY: 1:271/460 30fa598e
KM> 1. Death on this earth, your body stops living and dies, 
KM> however your soul or spirit lives on. 

Which one? The soul or the spirit?

You keep talking about them like they are one and the same.

And yet the bible is quite clear that they are two different
things:

HEB 4:12  For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the *dividing*
*asunder* of *soul* and *spirit*, and of the joints and marrow, and
[is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I COR 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made
a living *soul*; the last Adam [was made] a quickening *spirit*.

I THES 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
[I pray God] your whole spirit *and* soul and body be preserved
blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, if my soul goes to Hell, where does my spirit go? Is there
anything to stop my soul from going to Heaven if my spirit
ends up in Hell? (Be prepaired to defend your answer with
relevant passages from the Bible.)

Looks to me like the editors of the Bible accidentally left some
traces of Gnosticism in it.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Re: Female Circumcision,
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:24:38
EID:cb76 20347300
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d8dacf
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89090E36
DAP>> This was bout 2 years ago when I was in cash register repair.

JH>> A very formal business relationship involves discussing 
JH>> your client's genitals? 

DC> They carried change purses and he fixed them when the 3 
DC> requesite quarters weren't returned after "services 
DC> rendered".  

You fuck vending machines?

"Damnit! I pushed the button for Diet Pepsi and got a blow
job from Michael Jackson instead!"

(I have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what you were
trying to tell me in the above.)


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  Bop-A-Pope, 5 tries for a quarter
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:45:20
EID:3b5b 203475a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d909da
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 30fec130
SA>> Speaking of Prewett's "theory" - didn't the last pope who 
SA>> was assassinated get a head wound, too?  

JH>> Which pope was that? I'm not aware of any pope in recent 
JH>> history being assassinated. 

SA> Hm.  I thought there was a pope who died of a gun wound 
SA> back in the 70s or early 80s.  I guess my memory's just 
SA> gotten muddled due to youth at the time, and the passage of 
SA> time itself.  Did, perhaps, the last pope merely get shot, 
SA> and then died of old age, to be replaced by the current 
SA> one?

No. The last pope died on the toilet. (there's your HEAD wound)
He wasn't in office long enough to attract any assassins.
The one prior to him died of old age.
The CURRENT pope was the target of an assassination ATTEMPT.
But they shot him in belly. And he lived, either that or no
one has noticed that he was replaced with an android.



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  a miracle in the making
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:49:46
EID:f0e5 20347620
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60d915a2
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30fdd2bc
RJ> Lessee...it's got heart, liver, lungs, oats, rosemary, thyme, 
RJ> onions & odds 'n' ends (salt, pepper, nutmeg) all stuffed in the 
RJ> stomach.  

You forgot the DOT "BioHazard" label required by law.

RJ> Big splash of scotch.  

Light the thing and move up wind. 


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  WHITE-LIGHTER RELIGIO
|Date: 20 Jan 96  18:05:33
EID:4c8a 203490a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dae118
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30ffb398
JJH>>  If it wasn't for their appeal to teenagers, all three of 
JJH>> the above belief systems would dry up and blow away 
JJH>> overnight.

GtP> You need to research more.  

Uh huh...

GtP> In our community we have a pretty good population of 
GtP> "elders"....ie, retired folks who have been practicing 
GtP> witchcraft for several generations.  

And you have demographic evidence to support this claim?
I need it for my "research".


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  the virgin Mary
|Date: 20 Jan 96  18:22:49
EID:18cb 203492c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60db1637
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100361a
DW>> "For a message from the Virgin Mary, call 1-800-345-MARY."  

SA> Heeheehee.  So what do y'know?  It is a real number - and 
SA> it's still up.  

It won't be for too much longer. Their visionary died last summer.
Now their radio program is having to replay tapes made in the 70's
and 80's. As might be expected, they are loaded with failed
prophecies that now have to be "explained".

Priest voice: "When Our Lady, through Veronica, said 'in two years'
it obviously must not have meant 'two years from now', but rather
two years after some other prophetic event."

I'm going to miss these people when they finally fold.
They are the I_UFO of Catholicism.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  FOF
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:24:40
EID:e814 2034ab00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dcb377
On Jan 19 07:08 96, Judith Bandsma of 1:372/911 wrote:

JH>> Which pope was that? I'm not aware of any pope in recent 
JH>> history

RJ>> Like 1978? 

JB> Not only was he NOT killed in the attempt, it wasn't even a 
JB> head wound. He was gut-shot. Lost several feet of his 
JB> intestine and had to wear a colostomy bag for almost a 
JB> year.

You've mis-directed this message.
It's Sue Armstrong who thinks a recent pope was shot.
Robert is making a sly joke at the conspiracy theories that
John Paul ONE was murdered.


ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   LARRY SITES
|Sub:  Koresh
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:48:22
EID:e08e 2034ae00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dcef1d
me> I listened to Koresh's "give me an hour of air time and 
me> we'll come out" sermon of March 2, 1993 and Koresh was no
me> public speaker. My impression at the time (and now) was
me> that it was Koresh's first, last and only attempt at 
me> speaking before an audience. He probably had flunkys do his 
me> "teaching" for him within the compound.

LS> I see what you mean. I thought I saw or read that he did 
LS> his own teaching however, and for HOURS on end. Maybe 
LS> that's why the guys gave him their wives, to shut him up.

To give the bastard the benefit of a doubt that he doesnt
deserve, I have to mention that he did have three bullets
in him at the time and was probably not at his best form.




ooOOoo
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* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Jose Gomez
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:10:55
EID:0e79 2034b140
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dd1f35
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 89040F08
JG> I have personally seen the strength of Satan - but I've also 
JG> seen the strength of Yhwh (God). 

Have any evidence of either?

ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  ONE LAST COMMENT      01/
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:18:36
EID:75b5 2034b240
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dd3046
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 11555a71
KW> Ah, so.  This sounds like the area around Georgia Tech, 
KW> right next to down town Atlanta.  Or the Segundo Barrio 
KW> here.

Segundo Barrio?

What happened to the first one?

ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Jose Gomez
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:30:42
EID:4897 2034b3c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dd54b1
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 89040F09
JG> Guys.....GET A LIFE!!!

Why? So I can be like you?
Not a fucking chance.
Get a new cliche.

JG> You can't go around condeming people! Only God can judge!! 

And you just happen to God's spokesman. Yeah, right.

Fuck you. 
(Mind you, I didn't say that. I'm here to witness for 
Shalube. And Shalube has that message for you.)

JG> Just stop fighting like little kids and get on your knees!! 

SUBMIT! SUBMIT! damnitall, I said SUBMIT!

ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   All
|Sub:  Hot Quotes - An alternative to the FAQ
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:45:39
EID:7774 2034b5a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60dd7255
Date:   Mon Dec 11 1995
From:   George Pope

Get it out of your head.  I'm not on a hate agenda against queers.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Fri Dec 08 1995
From:   Chuck Cohenour Jr.

Kevin, You obviously won quit a lot of spelling BEE's.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Fri Dec 08 1995
From:   Chuck Cohenour Jr.

DOOFUS...?  what exactly is a doofus anyway and where is that in the
Bible?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Sat Dec 09 1995
From:   Christian Miller
To:     Judith Bandsma

JB> Having a set of balls doesn't make you a man, little boy.

I know this chick-e-poo.  Thanks for caring.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Dec 12 1995
From:   Christian Miller

Since MAN was created in the image of God, obviously He has a penis.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Fri Dec 29 1995
From:   Christian Miller

Hey now!  I do have a Horse's Ass membership card.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Tue Jan 02 1996
From:   Martin Goldberg

The International Zionist Conspiracy knows where he lives.  We're a
bunch of hungry mad demons tht want to control everything from world
finanaces to morons.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Fri Jan 05 1996
From:   Kenneth Mcabee

Yup, traveling by train is one of my favorites. You can be in the
train and it appears that everything else is moving. You can be
outside the train watching it and get the feeling that you are
moving instead of the train. So how can we besure that we aren't
watching the universe go by, instead of us moving with it?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Fri Jan 05 1996
From:   Kenneth Mcabee

If God made the earth stand still and the universe rotate around
it, it would be easy for him to alter the course of the universe
so that the sun hits a different section of the earth for a
different length of time to create the different seasons.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Tue Jan 09 1996
From:   Andrew Masten

Three hundred years ago modern scientist postulated that the Earth
was supported on the back of a giant turtle. The Bible in Job said
it was hung on nothing.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Date:   Sun Jan 14 1996
From:   Jose Gomez

Just stop fighting like little kids and get on your knees!!



ooOOoo
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  The Christian bible
|Date: 21 Jan 96  01:29:56
EID:0b94 20350ba0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60def846
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 30f99149
JT> I would like to point out to all who use the Cristian bible 
JT> to prove their points that during the middle ages the priest 
JT> class was the only one that could read the bible. They 
JT> didn't prevent anyone who wanted to from reading it... just 
JT> the majority of the people couldn't read. Also that the
JT> priest class was copying the bible to make new copies. Now 
JT> dosen't this sound like the perfect situation to alter a 
JT> document to reflect the views of the priest class? 

Unfortunately this scenario is somewhat flawed. There were
scriptoriums all over Europe. Communications was slow and 
ineffective. If the copyists were that eager to make changes
to the texts then each and every region would have a completely
different version of the Bible. This is not the case.

There were editorial changes and additions to the books of the
Bible, but you'll have look at an earlier era that the Medival
period to find them.

Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Yer running out of time!
|Date: 21 Jan 96  01:35:30
EID:2b85 20350c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60df00ce

On Jan 12 00:47 96, Asmodeus of 1:2330/20 wrote:

A> For speaking (writing) such stereotypical bullcrap I curse you, 
A> and for your lies about not doing so (if you were a man you would 
A> admit your actions) I damn you. 

A> See you in Hell! 

Today is Day TEN of my Satanic Curse.

Nothing has happened.


Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  So -shoot- me!
|Date: 21 Jan 96  01:43:58
EID:2cde 20350d60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60df1391
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30fff160
JH>>  ....and Florida has really been pushing it's luck.

DW> If Jesse doesn't come up with a new spiel for Easter, 
DW> Florida *will* be twitted.  That "evil" and "empty" shit 
DW> was funny the first 300 times, but it is getting pretty 
DW> damned old.

Don't forget Christian Miller and his sex-shop BBS.
Or 'The Raven' and his notion that vendetas are the
way to protect his family.

Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR...
|Date: 21 Jan 96  01:47:00
EID:a2db 20350de0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60df39c6
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 42266217
KW>   Anyway, the Texas Masons are so darn contrary that 
KW> they split off from whatever Mason International is and went 
KW> their own sweet way.

Each and every state has it's own "Grand Lodge" that is wholy
autonomous and independent and not obligated to recognize any
other Grand Lodge. (It gets even more complicated when you 
include the black Prince Hall Grand Lodges. You really need a
score card to keep track of who recognizes who.)

It's not unique to Texas, but is SOP in the US and has been 
since the Revolution. 

There was an attempt to form a Grand Lodge of the United States
with the then elderly and retired George Washington as it's
Grand Master. Washington gave them the brush off, saying that
he'd lost interest in all of that shit.  There was never a 
second attempt to form a GL-USA.

Internationally, most national GL's recognize the United Grand
Lodge of England (UGLE) of the One Big Mother Of Them All. The
majority of US GL's do not (another tradition that dates back
to the Revolution).

Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: LARRY SITES
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  Les Wilcox: hypocrite
|Date: 19 Jan 96  12:01:00
EID:76d4 20336020
LES WILCOX to DAN CEPPA on 01-15-96 23:47 re: Conference Guidelines 

LS>What is a "christian"? A licensed fucking thief! Biased on your 
LS>hypocritical actions. If jesus exists, is he proud of you?

LW> Grow up!  I've already explained that this program doesn't have
LW> a 30 day limitation from the author.  You worry about registering
DC>your

LW> * WaveRdr 1.0 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COP

DC>Are you done evaluating it?  Or are you too stupid to understand 
DC>the concept?  

LW>	Show me that stipulations from the author or shut up!

From the nag screen that forces one to find the ok to continue button out

of 5 random placements:

"Wave Rider is Shareware. If you like the program please register it."

Alone with the reg benes is listed the price and THREE different ways to

pay. I got this screen by renaming my key file and this message will show

as unregestered in the tag area.

This TYPICAL christian hypocrite has seen this nag screen EVERY FUCKING

time he started it for at LEAST a year. Too bad he didn't read HIS OWN 
FUCKING Wholly Babble when it says EVERY workman deserves his pay.

HYPO-FUCKING-CHRISTete!!! This dumbass is gonna burn in his own hell.


Larry Sites  Fuck AOL/Focus on the Family 
Freq FORGERY.ZIP, Falisfy Fundi father fakery
___
* WR 1.31 [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
--- FMailX/386 1.0g
* Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924  (1:202/212)
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PATH: 202/212 201 777 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Samhain old shit/4
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:09:30
EID:9f6a 20344920
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b167
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee6f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:

RJ>> dump the wife of 12 years and buy a red Ferrari, we know
RJ>> we've hit middle age.

GtP>> Hmmmm...so how do you know when you've reached manhood?

RJ>         As they say in the South:  "A boy isn't a man until his daddy
RJ>         tells him he is."



RJ>         Otherwise, I think "first incursion of deep debt" counts. 

ACK!  Don't say.  May my sons NEVER be men.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Alas! The poor Tagline. I knew it well.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  -------
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:10:12
EID:385d 20344940
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b18d
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee70
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:

LC>>> Oooohh, silly little pagan.You know not what you do.

RJ>> Heh heh heh...  };{>

GtP>> Ahhhh, I think Luke has been here too long.  He's sounding like the
GtP>> rest of us pagans. 

RJ>         All part of the ebb and flow...

Hmmmmm....sounds mighty "pagan" to me. 

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Not a shred of evidence exists that life is serious.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Gods, not god
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:10:41
EID:a4f2 20344940
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b321
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee83
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:

GtP>>> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.

RJ>> Why worship?  No one ever wants to give me an answer.

GtP>> Cuz it's fun??

RJ>         I used to torture small animals as a child because it was fun.

!!!!  NO!  How horrible.  Well, at least doing ritual doesn't hurt anyone
or anything, and, in fact, probably keeps the candle industry going. 
I "worship" or do ritual for a number of reason....high on the list being
that it appeals to the dramatic in me.  I enjoy dressing up in mysterious
robes and chanting....but, then, I WAS raised Roman Catholic .  Also,
I find that ritual is a part of everyday life.  Ya get up, go pee, brush
your teeth, put on the coffee, read the paper or flip on the news, etc,
etc.  For me, "magical" ritual is the same thing.  When I have a problem,
the familiarity of the ritual itself can be a comfort.  Additionally, it
allows me to leave the mundane behind and concentrate on my needs and issues...and
then, at least in my imagination, solve some of my problems.  Sometimes,
because of the power of the mind, this translates into my regular life.
Sometimes not.  How knows what lurks in the subconscious of pooh bears.


So, is that a good enough answer?

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Bother, said Pooh, as he got splattered all over the place.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  rites of passage
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:17:32
EID:0b05 20344a20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b5d6
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee84
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:


GtP>> It isn't quite the same thing.  Manhood ritual are for men and
GtP>> womanhood rituals are for women....they are not so much to EXCLUDE
GtP>> the other sex as to celebrate the oneness of all women (or men). 
We
GtP>> also have rituals that celebrate to union of the sexes or the beauty
GtP>> of the differences of the sexes. To deny that men and women are
GtP>> different, to deny them the right to share the things with others
of
GtP>> their sex, is

RJ>         I for one, don't deny the differences in sexes.  But how much
RJ>         is physical, and how much is the product of generations of
RJ>         social engineering?

Just got the book _When God Was a Woman_...it preports to be an archealogical
study of matriarchy.  Maybe it will give me hints how to answer you.  At
this point I would say that the differences are BOTH nurture and nature.
Women have a womb, men don't.  It all comes down to that.

GtP>> foolish.  A man could probably come to one of our meetings, but he
GtP>> would either be bored or feel embarassed.  Can you see a man at a

RJ>         Hey-hey!  Why do you suppose there's so much friction between
RJ>         the genders?  Could it be because of...traditions of separation?

But who is responsible IF it is a tradition.  The other night one of my
co-workers and I were discussing childbirth, breast feeding, and other assorted
female ailments.  One of her male friends was listening and would periodically
leave and go to the other side of the store...because it was "gross".  (BTW,
this is the same guy who will discuss killing things and death in startling
detail...he IS an ass)  Would it surprise you if I told you that gay men
are not nearly as sqeamish??

RJ>         Besides, women get together over a bottle of chardonnay and
RJ>         chat about these things in the suburbs--or various other forms
RJ>         of "the gals" getting together, just like guys do the exact
same
RJ>         thing.  But what is the purpose of making a _religious_ritual_
RJ>         out of it?  Why muddle up things which can be done in purely
RJ>         secular terms by making something more of it than it _needs_
to
RJ>         be?  Would you attach a fourth wheel to a tricycle?

Some things just don't matter to the other sex.  Men aren't interested in
our periods....we are.  Ritualizing and celebrating our womanhood helps
us feel good about ourselves.  We wouldn't have excluded a man who wanted
to come to my daughter's ritual, but why would he want to do so?

GtP>> How can I be sure of this??  The coven I belonged to was
GtP>> predominately female. And more than once we would have only one or
GtP>> two men show up and female conversation would dominate the pre and
GtP>> post ritual conversation.  Wild Hunter has expressed to me his
GtP>> discomfit at being the only male in that bunch.

RJ>         Understandably so.  Of course, by making a religious matter
RJ>         out of things, it's understandable why worldwide that there
is
RJ>         a further sense of alienation among sexes, races, creeds--
RJ>         because the inherent differences in these subsets of the human
RJ>         experience are often arbitrarily drawn, then reinforced with
RJ>         thicker lines as "something higher" is used to dictate those
RJ>         separations.  Of course, this isn't particularly referential
to
RJ>         the immediately preceeding paragraph, but you understand my
point?

Yes, in a way.  But why does being different have to be bad.  Can't we celebrate
our differences as well as our similarities??  Being different doesn't have
to be a stumbling block or a fence.  A homogenized society does NOT appeal
to me.

RJ> So anyway...why worship, why ritualize?  No one ever gives me
RJ> a  good answer.  It makes me all the more skeptical about its
RJ> supposed intrinsic value each time my question fails to elicit
RJ> a reasoned response.

See my last post.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... It was a mixed marriage; I'm Pagan, he's a Klingon...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  paul
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:29:01
EID:3c94 20344ba0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b5ee
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee85
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:

MH>> Just one minor correction -- Paul was very much a Jew. He was not
MH>> Roman. (Until later on in his missionary career, when he was roamin'
MH>> all over the place ... ) :)

GtP>> Not according to his own words.  Acts 22:27-28--The commander went
to
GtP>> Paul and asked, "Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?"  "Yes, I am,"
he
GtP>> answered.  The the commander said, "I had to pay a big price for my
GtP>> citizenship"  "But I was born a citizen," Paul replied. (NIV)

RJ>         The NRSV backs that up, and so does the KJV, albeit in more
RJ>         archaic words. 

I like using both.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... What do you call a blonde between two brunettes?  A mental block.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:29:29
EID:0426 20344ba0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b640
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee86
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:

RJ>         I find Jesse Christ a welcome change.  The jeezoids who
RJ>         rail at us eeeeevil atheists are convinced we are the unwitting
RJ>         tools of Satan, who also makes all the little pagan boys and
RJ>         girls--but pagans are actually just Satanists and they all
RJ>         secretly know it.  Jesse takes a different tack.  Paganry is
a
RJ>         big conspiracy designed by atheists to deceive people into
RJ>         adopting...*beLIEfs*!

There are several Christians in here that I enjoy because I like them. 
There are even more that are just funny.  Jesse at least tries to de-demonized
stuff.

RJ>         You just don't get this kind of entertainment on TV, foax.

Too true.  Maybe that's why I'm always here and not watching tv.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... My life is cluttered with facts.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Baking bread
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:30:52
EID:4c56 20344bc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b66f
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890510D9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:

DC>>> Did you ever get the info on high altitude baking that I

GTP>> <>

GTP>> Got it!  Thanks!


DC> No problem...  Please let me know if that helps or if you need
DC> any additional information.

Sure will.  Today is shopping, I may try one out tonight.

DC> (Jesse, note:  That post to Gwenny is a "Good Work!)



Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... "Yum," said Pooh, as he licked the hunny off of Bo Derek.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jesse Jones
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:32:56
EID:bbdf 20344c00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b735
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 13e8fac4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jesse!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jesse say to Gwenny:

GT>> Well, I'll tell ya what....ya need to meet me.

JJ>      Ya know, Gwen....  You may be right.

  I'm RIGHT?  

GT>> Christianity was the
GT>> experiment for me....it didn't work.  I am pagan.  I even have diety
GT>> beliefs...which I am much to smart to air in this forum.

JJ>      Doesn't your fear say something very negative about this place?
I
JJ> for one would be very receptive to hearing about those beliefs.  It
is a
JJ> shame this cannot be a place to share those safely.

And I would have no problem sharing my beliefs...anywhere else.  It's not
that I'm afraid, it's just that I know I have nothing to support what I
believe. Why try.  I wouldn't serve pizza to someone allergic to tomatoes,
either.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail, (G)rab_Hammer
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  hi
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:35:20
EID:6cdd 20344c60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3100b777
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d1a4e64c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>KW>> And welcome back, you've been missed.

GTP>> Thank you.  And I've missed you.  I think of you often.

KW> Wheee, another priestess for the Holysmoke Get Together Chocolate
KW> Ritual!!!

Are we really going to get together???  That would be so cool!

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Kali made me do it.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
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Y: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Josh Talbot
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  The Christian bible
|Date: 19 Jan 96  23:07:34
EID:92fb 2033b8e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:260/801.0 31012a9a
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89080E24
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Josh Talbot <=-

JT> intended to offend any worshipers of the sacraficed  god. Just to
JT> illuminate and provide understanding. 

DC> So, explain to me:  How is it that your sacrificed god still lives?

I don't know. I am not a member of the sacraficed gods religion.
Would a member of that religion have misspelled christian (I think 
phonetically... the spelling of that is not phonetic)?

--The Knight


... I will not yell "She's Dead" at roll call -Bart Simpson
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The Barrcks Rat BBS ][ - Elmira, Ny (1:260/801)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 260/801 800 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Josh Talbot
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  The Christian bible
|Date: 19 Jan 96  23:11:03
EID:3150 2033b960
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:260/801.0 31012a9b
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 fae35124
You seem to have missed the point. I know it's a collection of 
writeings put togeather. I was just trying to point out to the fundys why
they should not use their bible to prove anything.

--The Knight

... Gross Ignorance:  144 Fundies.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The Barrcks Rat BBS ][ - Elmira, Ny (1:260/801)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 260/801 800 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Josh Talbot
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Why
|Date: 19 Jan 96  23:13:38
EID:68f9 2033b9a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:260/801.0 31012a9c
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9fcd1560
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Josh Talbot <=-


KW> I rather doubt that he was any such thing.  My personal suspicion is
KW> that he's claiming that because it gets him a lot of attention and ego
KW> petting at their top each other at how big a sinner they were
KW> sweepstakes.
Hmm, good theory. And alot better than the idea that someone who 
chose their own religion gave it up for the one they rejected.

--The Knight

... Chain Lightning:  For when you just can't stop at one.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The Barrcks Rat BBS ][ - Elmira, Ny (1:260/801)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 260/801 800 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Josh Talbot
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Why
|Date: 19 Jan 96  23:15:55
EID:5a73 2033b9e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:260/801.0 31012a9d
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89080E27
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Josh Talbot <=-

DW> Maybe you could explain why "damn" is profane?

JT> I know why they're considered profane... The church of the
JT> sacraficed god didn't like them. 

DC> So, why does your damn church go about damning everyone to hell?  

DC> BTW, any reason that you think your sacrificed god is still alive? 


Dan, you seem to be laboring under a mis-conception. I am not 
christian. I do not understand any of the basic christian concepts.
So stop insulting me by asking me the questions you would ask a fundy.

--The Knight

... "All I got for Christmas was a lousy bag of rocks..."  - Weird Al
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The Barrcks Rat BBS ][ - Elmira, Ny (1:260/801)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
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SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 260/801 800 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  Jeezoids
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:21:51
EID:0ff6 20340aa0
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
No, my friend, you are. I only pray that in time, He will show you His
power. Until then, you are in my prayers.

+- Jose -+
....God'll getcha!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub:  Jeezoids
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:24:20
EID:4349 20340b00
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
In the book of Acts, the documentation speaks for itself. I thank you
for giving Jesus the chance to speak. Just keep your spirit open.

+- Jose -+
....God'll getcha!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  Re: HEAVENLY DAZED
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:33:01
EID:628b 20340c20
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
George, you don't have to trust me!

I will not test the Lord, my God!! He has proven enough to me. If He
has not proven Himself to you, and has left you alone, then you have no
reason to believe. I do not ask you to believe in something that is not
evident to you. If you have given Him a chance and called Him with your
heart.....

It's all a matter of time.

God'll getcha!! Then, you won't need your pills!

+- Jose -+
...I am not a prophet, only a vessel.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:39:59
EID:80b4 20340ce0
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
I WILL pray for you, George. And, He WILL come knocking on your door.
And, if you pills do in fact even exist, they'll go to waste. My God is
a personal God of love and POWER. In Jesus' name, I pray that God reveal
to you will presence, and that He would heal you of the inner pain that
you feel right now.

In Jesus' name, I ask God to help you with that bitterness that  you've
had in your heart for some time now. My the power of God overwhelm and
confort you, my friend. I ask that in the name of the Son of the Living
God. Amen.

+- Jose -+
....Jesus is Lord!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  Re: Satanic Curse Update
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:42:48
EID:ff6a 20340d40
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
The wisdom of God is foolishness to men. May you catch what I have!!
: )   : )
+- Jose -+
....catch the fever!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  Re: Jesus said "EAT ME!"
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:46:03
EID:5f1f 20340dc0
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
i never said that you should be scared of anything. I said that YOU
would step on YOUR OWN soul. God only wants to heal it.

You don't scare Him either.

+- Jose -+
....God'll getcha!!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 20 Jan 96  01:48:20
EID:c2fe 20340e00
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
Thank you for accepting my apology. Your message was the first plesant
one I have had since writting on this echo.Your grace is appreciated.

+- Jose-+
....God'll getcha!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Jose Gomez
|To:   All
|Sub:  IMPORTANT MESSAGE!!!
|Date: 20 Jan 96  02:15:09
EID:72fd 203411e0
MSGID: 1:18/73.0 890A9ABA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2206
Although most of you do not believe in God, and you hate "fundie" and
"jeezoid" claims of talking with God, I want to let you know that God
is VERY real, and He loves you all. One day, face to face, you will
experience that reality. Until then, continue to study and research the
FACTS on the world. You will find the truth in the  FACTS. You are all
strong willed, open people who can only talk about what they've seen
with their eyes. I can appreciate that and I encourage you to continue
to be open. It will help you find the truths of the universe.

Heaven always has room for strong people like yourselves. You are ALL
in my prayers. 

+- Jose -+
....God'll getcha!!!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 
* Origin: SomeThing New  (1:18/73.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 18/73 3601/18 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: David Sparrow
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  HEAVENLY DAZED
|Date: 20 Jan 96  03:24:52
EID:c2ff 20341b00
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 30fcf83c
MSGID: 3:690/613.8 31004eeb
GR> If he loves me, he will tell you the chemical formula for the pills
on
GR> my monitor, and you will tell me.

Regardless of whether "JG" relays accurately the type of any pills you
may take (oh at a guess, judging from your bitter ravings, surely your
Doctor must have recommended something for your blood-pressure as well
as keeping your angina under control, plus to stave off any repeats of
apoplexy ... I reckon you should be on Nitro heart-kickers, purely for
my own amusement BOC) or what you used to do with your sister is still
no indication as to whether the source is "God", or a "demon", or just
a long chat with someone who used to watch through a hole in the wall.

So, you're being all bitter and twisted for no good reason at all - or
do you mean to tell us that if "JG" gets it right, you are immediately
going to embark upon "developing a relationship" with this "God" which
"JG" knows ?  Pah, you're pathetic ... never mind asking a third party
for the info about your tablets; go straight to the top, ask Him (God)
yourself and bypass the line-noise.  If HE can't tell ya, then I guess
you'll just have to ask your sister to read you the label.

Regards

David

---
* Origin: =EMPIRE= v4.01 - Twits Twonks, Tidies Text.  (3:690/613.8)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 690/613 660 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To:   JEROMY ALEXANDER
|Sub:  hey, i'm new
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:02:42
EID:1565 2034b040
MSGID: 3:711/933 310167af
Dear Brother JEROMY ALEXANDER,

Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JA> i'm a Christian...

That's a good testimony for anyone!

JA> But i dont believe in all the Christian idea's...

Make up your mind. You can't be a Christian and disagree with any of the
faith.

JA> I do believe in the Big Bang Theories...
JA> But I also believe that God created the universe...

It is one and the _same_ thing. There's no difference.

JA> I think that religions vary from person to person..and that no two
JA> people have the same religion, beliefs..ect.ect.

But religion is contrary to Christianity, and ALL CHristians share the COMMON
faith (John 16:13; I Corinthians 1:10).

JA> My favorite verse in the bible is GEN 9:3.

JA> I interpet that as God saying its ok to smoke weed...

JA> what y'all think of that...

It demonstrates that you are definately not a Christian and definately a
fool.

Kind regards,

Anthony Grigor-Scott

--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS (61)-2-809-3723 West Ryde (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 711/933 809 808 409 690/660 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To:   Brad Jackson
|Sub:  One God
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:08:55
EID:690d 2034b100
MSGID: 3:711/933 310168d0
Dear Brother Brad Jackson,

Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You've discovered the greatest of all revelations. The Supreme Deity of
the Lord Jesus Christ  -  `the beginning of the creation of God' in the
Form of His glorified Family, (the true New Testament Church being the continuation
of the same Creation), LESS than 2000 years ago. NOT the beginning of God's
creation which is the sun, stars, rivers and trees, etc.

Kind regards, and God richly bless you ...

Anthony Grigor-Scott

--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS (61)-2-809-3723 West Ryde (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 711/933 809 808 409 690/660 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  Jim Staal
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:14:47
EID:33c4 2034b1c0
MSGID: 3:711/933 31016a5e
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 30fcf84a
Dear George Rudzinski,

Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

GR> Jim Staal has accused me of blasphemy. That is how they got Jesus.
GR> Jesus and I are accused of the same crime.

Well, you're in the best Company. Count yourself blessed to be accounted
worthy to bear the reproach of Jesus the Christ.

GR> Rather funny when it comes from religious zealots with a god in both
GR> cases.

Why so? Satan is religious, and the god of this evil world. His subjects
are therefore religious and worship (serve) him. Though many are athiest
or agnostic.

GR> ... Fundies give mutton a bad name, sheep march on Washington in
GR> protest.

You would not know a Fundamental if one looked you in the eyes. And those
that would march on Washington wouild be GOATS, not sheep. Read the Book!

Kind regards,

Anthony Grigor-Scott

--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS (61)-2-809-3723 West Ryde (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  maria russel in the new_world_order echo
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:19:50
EID:3fb2 2034b260
MSGID: 3:711/933 31016bcb
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 0fd62501
Dear Ryan Shaw,

Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

RS> So state some "conspiracy" theories and why you don't believe in
RS> them...say...the Illumanati.

Why would any American disbelieve in the Illuminati?   The obverse of your
Seal contains a star of David, the reverse is the symbol of the Illuminati
and the nation has never marched to their tune more obviously than it does
in this day.

You must be a _genuine_ sceptic.  Do you suppose the formula 1+1=2 to be
a conspiracy

Kind regards,

Anthony Grigor-Scott

--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS (61)-2-809-3723 West Ryde (3:711/933)
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|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Lump
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR Lumpy
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:59:57
EID:8636 2034af60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1019fa55
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30ff9d7b
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lump wrote in a message to Lynda Bustilloz:

LB> make me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be.  If I am to stand up, help
LB> me to stand bravely.  If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly.
If
LB> I am to lie low, help me do it patiently.  And if I am to do nothing,
LB> let me do it gallantly. Make these words more than words, and give me
LB> the Spirit of Jesus.  Amen.

L>        .....AMEN!....Very well said and thank you....

Hooray!  Now Lumpy can finally put his hands down and eat his bowl of Apple
Jacks!


--- timEd/2 1.10+
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|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  severe
|Date: 20 Jan 96  22:00:26
EID:3af4 2034b000
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1019fa56
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30ffbc76
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jim Staal wrote in a message to Dave Ray:

DR> Now there's a laugh. You wnt her go someplace where she can be ganged
DR> up on by your fairy-tale believing bretheren.

JS> I don't know of any 'fairy tale believing bretheren'. 

Your own family, for starters.  They are just as delusional, it seems.

JS> suggesting that rather than hash this out where individuals such as
JS> yourself might mock and scoff, we might discuss this in an area
JS> devoid of such mockers and scoffers, Dave.

Please do!  But we know you never will.  You are a lifer here, much as you
are a prisoner of those fairy-tale gawd beliefs you cling to.  No way out
for you!

JS> Bible image. Romans 12:2 comes into my mind here...

What little there remains of it.

--- timEd/2 1.10+
* Origin:  * Above Board *  (1:109/601)
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|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Styx Allum
|Sub:  Perhaps here's the reason
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:55:10
EID:4b12 2034aee0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1019fa52
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0916da8a
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Styx Allum wrote in a message to Jose Gomez:

> Silence is not a cure for "Christian noise".

SA> Why are you telling ME this?  I am "The Creator" of this echo. 

Yet Jose is right in a way.  Silence isn't the 'cure'.  Intelligence is!


--- timEd/2 1.10+
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|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Scot Bear
|Sub:  Mr. Miller...problem?
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:57:05
EID:7238 2034af20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1019fa53
REPLY: 1:154/69.0 30fd4859
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Scot Bear wrote in a message to Jim Staal:

>  KW> seem to willing to embrace him, though.
>
> I haven't seen anything objectionable about Mr. Miller to date...
SB>  
SB> Er.......Jimbo.....You're taking on water------------fast!
SB>  
SB> I would bail-out if I were you. 

Have some Nooooooooooooooooooooooooodles!  They'll soak up his excess water!
:)


--- timEd/2 1.10+
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|From: Steve Rose
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  New
|Date: 20 Jan 96  21:58:36
EID:12b4 2034af40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1019fa54
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Maria Russell:

MR> That's it...You're a dope fiend! 
SQ>  
SQ> Isn't this a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?  Rather
SQ> than dropping acid or putting a needle into your veins, you inhale
SQ> Jesus.  There's no difference.

Inhale jaysus?
That does make sense.  Xtians brown-nose their myuth-gawd every day.


--- timEd/2 1.10+
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  ---o
|Date: 17 Jan 96 10:09:00
EID:5bbb 20315120
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 0fe4d551
-=> Quoting J.J. Hitt to David Worrell <=-

DW> Someone recently confirmed my guess that the number 3 was
DW> another of the Jewish "special" numbers (did they have any
DW> normal, everyday, boring numbers at all?).

JH> Of course not. That's the problem with any numerological system,
JH> they think everything is "significant".

In fact, it has been proved, mathematically, that there are no
"uninteresting" numbers.

JH> The single digit intigers have the real whammy and are very
JH> important. So are their multiples.

JH> So are the multiples of 10, 11, 12 and 100. The digits, tens and
JH> hundreds are important because they were represented by a single
JH> alphabetic character. The multiples of 11 are important because
JH> they represent a "doubling" of the single digits. Multiples of
JH> 12 are important "just because".

I know you're just dying to see the proof, but I'm gonna make you wait .

JH> It would be possible to apply these rules and generate a list of
JH> the "unimportant" numbers...

Oooh!  You're getting close....

JH> and what you would end up with would
JH> include most of the mathematically interesting numbers: the primes.

So close, but you missed it.

OK, here's the proof that there are no "uninteresting" numbers:

Assume the opposite: ie. the set of uninteresting numbers contains at least
one member.

Sort the set of uninteresting numbers in ascending order.  Consider the
smallest member.  Observe the interesting fact that this number is the
first uninteresting number.  Ooops, that makes the number itself
interesting, a clear contradiction of it's membership in the set of
uninteresting numbers.

Therefore the original assumption (that the set of uninteresting numbers
is
non-empty) must be wrong.

JH> It doesn't suprise me that these clowns thought pi=3.00.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Take care.

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07á (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Sault Ste. Marie,On 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  ?
|Date: 19 Jan 96  00:15:00
EID:4b60 203301e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c13f
-=> Quoting Richard Morrison to Dan Ceppa <=-

DC> RM> Well Dan, let me ask you something? Where in the Bible does it
DC> RM> that Adam was "perfect"? 
DC>
DC>Your god is perfect, is he not?  How can a perfect being not 
DC>create something perfect?  

God created everthing in perfection and pure Holiness. However, He created

angels and mankind with the ability to choose whether to to good or evil.
It's called freewill.


DC>IOW, your god can't create a perfect being with free will and 
DC>not let the being sin.

Since God created us with a freewill, doesnt it stand to reason that its
our choice to sin or not? If it was any other way, it couldnt be called
a freewill right? We have the ability to make our own decisions in life

and to choose our road.

It says in John 3:3 "Eccept a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom
of God."

It's our choice to choose. We can choose to go to heaven or we can choose
to go to hell. It boils down on our freewill. 

It says in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He sent His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have
everlasting life."

God choose to send His Son to this world to pay the price for our sinfullness.
But, we must excercise our freewill and choose whether or not we accept
the
gift that God gave us or not. It boils down to our choice. 

Take it easy guy, and Godbless!





... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   Dave Ray
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 19 Jan 96  00:42:01
EID:21f7 20330540
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c140
-=> Quoting Dave Ray to Christian Miller <=-

-=> Quoting Christian Miller to Gwenny the Pooh <=-

CM> On Tuesday, January 9th, 1996 - Gwenny the Pooh wrote:

Gt> I've been to many "revivals" in my life.  At every one, they asked 
Gt> for money. I'm not judging on just one, but on many.

CM> Gee, if your child asks for a candybar, do you always give 'em one?

CM> Same thing...

DR> Maybe in your simplified mind.

DR> But you can bet the preacher will have dinner with the person who
DR> turns in an envelope with $1,000 instead of someone who puts $10 in
DR> the envelope.

Why would you say that? Do you know every single preacher? Not every one
is money hungry. If they ask for a contribution, its probally becuase they
need it. 


take it easy and Godbless...,


Steve



... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   Pam Gray
|Sub:  Agnostic(ism?)
|Date: 19 Jan 96  00:58:02
EID:6634 20330740
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c141
-=> Quoting Pam Gray to David Fono <=-

PG> David,

PG> Whether anyone else believes is a moot point...

DF> Anyways, is agnosticism a religion or not?  -Stubbs

PG> It's what you think and believe in your own heart is which counts. 
PG> People  don't have to agree with what you believe as long as they
PG> respect your beliefs and you respect their beliefs.

It is written:

"Be happy, young man, while you young, and let your heart give you joy in
the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatsoever your
eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment"
Ecclesiastes 11:9

"The heart is decietful above all things, and desperately wicked: Who can
know it? I have the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give
every man accourding to the fruit of his doings." Jeremiah 17:9-10

"Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." 
Proverbs 4:23

"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Do
not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore
me to the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain

me."-Psalm 51:17



Take it easy guy, and Godbless...,


Steve





... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  you forgot one thing...
|Date: 19 Jan 96  01:51:03
EID:2e9c 20330e60
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c142
JH> I really wish this Satan guy would get his act together.

The devil is a defeated foe. His crimes will not go unpunished. Becuase
of his wickedness, he is condemned to an eternal punishment so severe,
that he cant posibly even begin to bear it. For the wrath of God Almighty
will be released without measure upon ALL the angels who rebelled. 

JH> If I was the devil, I'd run a much more punctual organization.

The devil has a counterfeit oorganazation of evil angels that serve him.
They
are highly organized-in camaflouge and lies. The are not even close to as

organied as God's army but know enough to decieve the world.

JH> And people would have to meet certain minimum qualifications
JH> before I would allow them to believe in me.

The only minimum requirement to serve satan is to reject Christ. For we
are all servants of something. We either serve Christ, or we serve the devil.
There's no middle ground. Whats sick, is the fact that most of satans 
deciples dont even know that there serving him. 

It is written "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God." We all must worship
the Lord God Almighty. But we all have a freewill to choose our own road.
Nonetheless, every knee will bow before Christ and every tongue SHALL confess
Christ as King and Ruler over all. For who will be able to stand in God's
presence once God is angered? Not the devil...


Take it easy guy, and Godbless

Steve



... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Christian Miller's Christianity
|Date: 19 Jan 96  02:10:04
EID:d063 20331140
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c143
H> Number of Messages         Size of Messages

JH> Message Base Name      Last  Daily Weekly   Last      Daily     Weekly
JH> ------------------   ----- ----- -----  --------   -------   -------
JH> * Down Home Talk'n *       0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> * NetMail *                0     0     4         .        .     6132.
JH> SysOps of 3603             1     1    78     1706.    1706.    92899.
JH> CoCo Echo                  0     0    18         .        .    15761.
JH> OS-9 Echo                  3     3    43     2127.    2127.    37710.
JH> RiBBS SysOps               0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Fixin' tah fix car?       18    18   167    21555.   21555.   195932.
JH> Macintosh Discussion       9     9    45     9941.    9941.    50057.
JH> Yanks vs. Rebs            11    11   106    12468.   12468.   140329.
JH> Knee Slappin' Music       27    27   165    39162.   39162.   223962.
JH> Bible Echo                 0     0    69         .        .   124969.
JH> Holy Smoke Debate        111   111  1161   133574.  133574.  1571036.
JH> 'Bout Yer Gun             17    17   245    24149.   24149.   343454.
JH> The Bible Echo             8     8    15    11616.   11616.    20122.
JH> Protect Yer Kin Folk      10    10   115    18559.   18559.   200904.
JH> Lead Footin' It!!          4     4    19     3612.    3612.    18951.
JH> Old Engines                0     0     7         .        .     6017.
JH> Hub 20030 Echo             0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Keep Yer Gunz              6     6    89     8763.    8763.   162665.
JH> Visit'n Da Woods           0     0     4         .        .     4369.
JH> The Still                  8     8    26     7552.    7552.    22689.
JH> Bay Area: For Sale         2     2    47     1167.    1167.    43894.
JH> Dem BBS Ads R Here!       12    12   155    18051.   18051.   243057.
JH> Sex In Public Places       0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Romance Echo               0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> CD/Book/Movie Review       0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Sexual Stories             0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Sexual Fantasies           0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> CatNet BBS Ads             0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Sexual Advice              0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> 3 or Moresomes             0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> S & M and B & D            0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Adult Humor                0     0     1         .        .      454.
JH> Married, Will Cheat        0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> At The Bar                 0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> CatNet SysOps Echo         0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Sex Toys                   0     0     0         .        .        
.
JH> Macintosh SysOps           1     1    20      854.     854.    21787.
JH> Love & Marriage            0     0    26         .        .    40136.

JH> Totals:                  248   248  2625   314856.  314856.  3587286.

JH> Of course, the more "interesting" areas are empty; but their very
JH> presence on a "Christian" BBS reflects directly on just what sort
JH> of character Mr. Miller actually is.

Are you an ordained judge J.J.? Do you make a charge against Mr Miller?

Or do you think you can mock Christ with your ridicule? It says in the 
Bible, "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test."  

From your above printout it would seem that the "adult" message area's have
been shut down. Many of the bbs's I call have sigs in the message base 
that have been turned off. (Cut) 

Do you really get your kicks trying to mock Christ and His church? Who is

able to mock Christ? You obviously think you are. You will reap what you
sow...


Take it easy J.J. and Godbless

Steve



... Obadiah 1:15 Wisdom to the wise.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 19 Jan 96  02:50:05
EID:8adf 20331640
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c144
DW> I didn't ask you how you'd raise your children, did I?  I asked you,
DW> "If you had the ability, would you torture your children for
DW> eternity?" 

I myself wouldnt guy. And neither would God. God loves all of His children
and
never would torture any of them. However, not every one is a child of God
are
they? And it's not God who send's people to hell, but rather people who
send people to hell. Your responsibile for your own actions. You will reap
exactly what you have sown. 

Would you torture YOUR children for eternity if you had the ability? But,
in fact you do. When you deny them Christ, your not only hurting them, your
condemnig them. If you truly love your children, your gonna want the best
for them.


Take care , and Godbless


Steve


... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 19 Jan 96  03:54:06
EID:9689 20331ec0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3100c145
SM> Satan was at one time an arch angel, I believe. Angels are defined in
DC> And, a little ol' archangel is stronger than the god that created him!

An archangel is an authority. Like Norman Swarzkoff(sort of). Norm was in

authority(charge) of certain duties in the U.S. army. However, the devil
is
no longer an authority in God's family. 

God threw the devil out of heaven and made a pulic spectacle of him in
front of His angelic host. 

When the devil rebelled, a third of the angels chose there own fate and

followed him (hence rebelling). But when Christ died on the cross for
mankind, He ended up stripping the principalities and powers(evil angels)
of
there power and authority over sin and mankind. And not only that but, 
Since Christ paid the priice for mans sinfullness, the prince of this world
(the devil) stands comdemned to everllasting torment.

DC> Provide the evidence, fundy.  

Read your Bible.  

It says in the Bible that not a single jot will be pass away until all things
come to pass. Meaning - God's Word is the truth and it will happen right
on
time.

Steve


... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: RONALD VASS
|To:   LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub:  HEAVENLY AND DAZED
|Date: 17 Jan 96  21:41:00
EID:3d40 2031ad20
LB>KATHERINE and RONALD were killing time yakking about HEAVENLY AND DAZED:
LB> KW>I'm sorry, Al, but the early xtains led by quite example only so
long as
LB> KW>they were outnumbered and lacked political power.

LB> RV> But to Al , and Mike ,and any current bible thumpers , they weren't
LB> RV> Real True Christians , never fear , if they had their way , It would
LB> RV> happen again .After all the current bible ,says it Aok , to kill
LB> RV> off those who don't buy into their lies.
LB> RV> Well maybe not Al , he might think about it , but at this point
in
LB> RV> his life , i don't think he would try to stop it.

LB>I think you're dead wrong on that one.  Don't let your eagerness to stuff

I will be very happy to be wrong on that one .

LB>every individual Christian into the neat little stereotypical box you
have
LB>laid out for them blind you to the reality that Christians are as much

I don't really place them in that box, but in life ,i had the shaft from
more of those who try a god down my throat ,then those who don't really
worry about any gods. Yes , i have met a few , who do seem to lead a
life , like the jesus myth , and more power to them , but they also seem
to have a life of leaveing others to their own life.


LB>individuals as anyone else.  And there have ALWAYS been examples of Christia
LB>who have bucked the tide of what current Christian thinking holds as
standar
LB>often at greater risk to life and limb than the pagans.

Agree ,yes there is some.


LB>Rather than wasting time accusing Christianity as a whole, spend a bit
of
LB>time learning how to compose a sentence - - once you bring a bit of order
to

This bit of expressing myself via the written word ,has always been my
stopgap , but never fear , as to reading and understanding , with that i
have no promlem.
Just so you don't think ,i only pick on christianity , i also pick on
any person/group , who wants to control my life or those of others ,if
they stay out of my face and stay out of others , then i leave it alone.


LB>your ability to express yourself, you might find your thoughts become
ordere
LB>enough to see the difference between people and groups.

Since i spend most of my life ,looking for a creator or a god or
something , and act as a listener to many , i do know the difference
when there is one ,between a person and the group they belong to.


Have a great day.
ron.

___
þ SLMR 2.1a þ Study the Inquisition.A policy of Murder & Torture.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: In-Side In-Fo (519)756-3995 (1:221/1505)
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|From: RONALD VASS
|To:   GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub:  Churches
|Date: 17 Jan 96  22:40:00
EID:015b 2031b500
GTP>Heilsa, Lynda!


GTP>LB> Hint, Christian -- the story is a STORY, written by a patriarchal
socie
GTP>LB> who saw hospitality as rating much higher than women.  If Lot wanted
to
GTP>LB> appease the crowd, why the hell didn't he sacrifice HIMSELF.  They
GTP>LB> obviously weren't looking for women.

GTP>Not necessarily.  Later, in Judges, I believe, a similar situation takes
pl
GTP>In this case, the "guest" sends out the concubine he had just gotten
back.
GTP>Benjamites rape her to death.

I think this is the part ,you are talking about.

-*-

Rape my daughter

Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring
out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you:
but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine,
and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all
the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they
let her go.
-Judges 19:24-25

COMMENT:

Judges 19 describe a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken
mob.
When the father says "unto this man do not so vile a thing," he makes clear
that sexual abuse should never befall a man (meaning him), yet a woman,
even
his own flesh and blood, or a concubine belonging to a perfect stranger,
can receive punishment from men to do what they wish. This attitude against
women still persists to this day and we have the Bible, in large part, to
thank for this attitude against women.

Verse 25 describes the hours long gang rape of the poor concubine. The Bible
gives not one hint of passion or concern for the raped girl.
Considering that many people believe that every word in the Bible comes
from God, it should not surprise anyone why people still use these verses
to justify such atrocities.

-*-

___
þ SLMR 2.1a þ If You Can See This Tagline , Guess What, Your In Hell !
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 19 Jan 96 20:19:00
EID:c525 2033a260
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 10120a03
-=> Quoting Asmodeus to Robert Jackson <=-

Good morning, Thomas.

As> Its not at all that if someone pokes a jab at me I think it is only
As> because of their theism.  It is only that I would only expect such
As> childish things from a theist, and somewhat less immature posts from
a
As> non-theist. 

You obviously haven't been around here long.

Take care.

... The sun shines even on the wicked.  -  Seneca
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07á (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Sault Ste. Marie,On 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  A DAY IN THE LIFE...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  11:14:46
EID:2488 203459c0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 e579cb90
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30ffe238
On (19 Jan 96) Robert Jackson wrote to AL SCHROEDER...

RJ> 1990 was the final straw. "Know new taxes" [sic] sorta did it
RJ> in for me for good.

I saw a tagline that explained this one perfectly.  I don't remember
it exactly, but I can paraphrase it for you:

"No nude Texans."  George Bush, explaining a misunderstanding.


... My three-finger response for tough questions:  Ctrl-Alt-Del

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   RACHEL BRATTAIN
|Sub:  promise keepers
|Date: 20 Jan 96  17:55:20
EID:357b 20348ee0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 310136bb
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting RACHEL BRATTAIN to JIM STAAL <=-

JS> BTW, one of my children got me the book 'The Seven Promises of The
JS> Promise Keepers' for Christmas. I can hardly wait to get started.

RB> ...book title caught my eye...could you tell me a little bit about the
RB> Promise Keepers? ...am kind of curious as to what exactly they are or
RB> are 'supposed' to be... ...have heard good and bad about PKs, so could
RB> use some clarification...

Promise Keepers is an organization for and of men designed to help men
become more spiritually awakened, to help them be more attentive to the
needs of their family, to honor, respect and love their wives and to
relate more fully to God, themselves and their fellow man - all through
the grace and knowlege of their Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

(this is not an 'official' definition, but rather my paraphrase from my
experience through attending their mass rallys as well as small groups
on the local level and reading their materials.)

* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413  (1:228/45)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  interpretation...is making me wait...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  18:30:41
EID:a879 203493c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 310136bc
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Jim Staal <=-

JS> How many times does it have to be repeated? No one...I repeat, _no
JS> one_ who is guided by the Bible (the whole thing, not just scattered
JS> bits and pieces) would be guilty of the atrocities you wish to point
JS> out...

JB> Let's just say that no one who is guided by a "correct" interpretation
JB> of it is guilty of those atrocities.

Agreed. (I believe a correct interpretation can be achieved through use
of the whole Bible, when accompanied by prayer and the guidance of the
Holy Spirit. This, of course, requires belief in same)

JB> It remains factual that
JB> Believers  killed unbelievers in droves, for no crime other than
JB> failure to adhere  to the belief-system.

History does record this, yes. The fact remains, however, that these
same individuals suffered from grave ignorance of the same Bible they
were fighting to promote.

JB> Judeo/Christianity is of
JB> course not the _only_  religion guilty of this sort of murderous
JB> religious persecution.

Agreed.

* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413  (1:228/45)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  george...cool!
|Date: 20 Jan 96  18:31:08
EID:e574 203493e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 310136bd
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Jim Staal <=-

LB> @MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30ff8f54
LB> Josh and Jim were killing time yakking about forgiveness available:

GR> I am.  Feel free to show that I'm not.  Or stop whining and making
GR> claims that you can't back up for lack of education.

JS> Ask george about his degree(s)...

LB> 98.6 or thereabouts?

Nah, george is pretty cool...probably...uh...97.4 or so...:)

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  'THEY'!? Who this 'they'!?
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:50:37
EID:4570 20349e40
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014955
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

JS> 'J'. How many lumps for you? One or two...step up here...

ML> Now which Staal is once again advocating violence (or is it
ML> another sham at high tea)?

JS> Violence!? Violence to whom!? (and I don't get high on 'tea'.)

ML> You again; offering lumps. (You say you don't get high on tea;
ML> so what do you get high on? Anoxia?)

That was a play on sugar, sir...

ML> Why would they need two versions if they were exactly the same?

JS> I don't know about 'they',

ML> Now there's the understatement of the month.

JS> DEFINE _'THEY'_, HERR DOKTOR!!

ML> Do your own research, Jimbo. Quit begging your betters to do it
ML> for you.

You brought it up. I just wondered how one of the 'better educated'
defined 'they'...

JS> Yeah...I don't see the point of this conversation...

ML> Conversations with nescient rubes are rather pointless,
ML> although you do provide some hilarious comic relief; however
ML> insouciant.

Yes, because I deign it so...

ML> Paul suffered head trauma.

JS> Any evidence to support this claim? If so trot it out here and we'll
JS> take a look at it, MISTER Leipzig...

ML> Just ask Hector. (I wonder why you excised the rest of my
ML> reply...hit too close to home?)

The rest of your post hinged on the validity of your 'head trauma'
statement. As you cannot support that claim, the rest of your reply was
debunked as well...

JS>  were just a bunch of
JS> 'shewest thou me's. And I'm not Al Bundy. I don't sell women's shoes.
JS> Ya know?

ML> No, I do not. Who, or what, is an "Al Bundy"

JS> Huh!? You live in a cave or something?

ML> Nope. Just Russia, Uzbekistan and other points east for good
ML> portions of the year.

Ah...hence the 'cave' experience...

JS> Al Bundy sells womens

ML> Try "...women's...", Comrade "English Major".

Typo, Herr Leigzip...I got it right the other times, indicating my
knowlege of same...

JS> Duh...

ML> Yet another disenfranchised quasibiped from the MTV school of
ML> debate.

Hmmm...not acquainted with it...or should I say 'Not!'.

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Marty! Marty! 
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:50:00
EID:f255 20349e40
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014956
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Jimbo, is this really you or someone just as ignorant?

JS> I really despise your new 'intro' lines...

ML> How unfortunate. Now, answer the question. Is it you or someone
ML> else in Wyoming who's just as ignorant?

JS> I know nothing of this 'wyoming' of which you speak. I live in
JS> Grandville, Michigan.

ML> That's because it's "Wyoming". And, you still did not answer
ML> the question.

Now what was the question again?

JS> In fact, I live in a post box, #171, Grandville,
JS> MI 49468-0171.

ML> Damn. What with your being so tall and all, I'll wager that's a
ML> mighty tight fit.

Ah...now you have a sense of humor...

JS> Why shouldn't I believe it? S'the truth...

ML> So tell us all about the flood, Jimbo. Provide a little
ML> evidence of the truth of that claim.

Uh...rains came down and the floods came up...not that hard a gig...

JS> I have seen no evidence of it...for _I_ am 6'7", 285lbs of

JS> No, I ate a lot of corn flakes as a youthful Hollander...

ML> Flakes.

ML> It figures.

If I'd said corn _cobs_ would've you had a better time with it?


JS> Tsk...

ML> Veritas.

You're welcome...

JS> None _can_ measure up, can they...

ML> To your insipid egomaniacal rantings? Nope, you're a blue ribbon
ML> winner in that "class"

Thankyou...

ML> Are we supposed to be intimidated or impressed?

JS> Neither. Merely amused, that's all...

ML> You are rather amusing, however unintentional.

It's intentional...trust me...

ML> We're neither.

JS> REally!? I thought you would be one of the 'better educated' [TM]
JS> your bro Fred Rice trumpets around here...

ML> Fred is not my brother, as I have none.

C'mon...out with it...you are Eric and Lyle's long lost bro, aren't
you?

JS> Nah...you seem more of a man of _mere_ words...

ML> Quote editing is verboten, Herr Staal. That _mere_ is an
ML> addition of yours to the original, Chuckles. Styx doesn't take
ML> lightly to that, you know.

As it was my own post, I won't complain...

ML> Yep. That's what they tell me at the gym.

JS> 

ML> Nope. Mengele is dead; you merely emulate him from the neck-up.

Mengele lives, Herr Doktor, in the fine wit and bitter slicing tongue
of Mahty Leigzip.

JS> 'flummoxed'!? Is that some sort of ethnic idiom?

ML> Nope. Yet another common word that completely vexes the
ML> resident "English Major".

Sure...common, alright...somewhere in the Slavic countries...

ML> How quaint.

How dorky...

ML> wordsmithery reflects refinement and exemplary English.

I really like this.

JS> Oh, not I, sir, but rather, the holy writ, The Bible.

ML> This "Holy Writ" also says that bats are birds.

Evidence to support this claim?

ML> Hey, what do you expect from a "heinous blasphemer", Jimbo?

So you admit it then, Herr Leigzip?

JS> In other words, they are mere juvenile retribution? I can accept that.

ML> Not at all. They are mere words that cause you enormous
ML> anxiety. I call that "fun".

Typical heinous blasphemer attitude: hurting some one else brings joy to
your very soul...

JS> Tsk. Just when I thought you were getting to know me better...

ML> I know you far too well as it stands. Getting to know you
ML> better is like getting better acquainted with a sewer rat.

Tsk. Tsk. I thought you were becoming a bit more congenital, Marty and
instead you cut me once again ...

JS> Ahhh...and once again you abuse my good nature and fine sense of
JS> humor. That's OK, I can take it...like a _man_!

ML> Jimmy, you really shouldn't leave straight lines like that...

 See!? You can see fun in this if you try...

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Staal shows his colon
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:05:14
EID:19e8 203498a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014957
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Now, which Staal has oozed his way onto the scene this time?

this hurts...it really does...

ML> Since when do double-wides have a second story?

JS> I resent the inference...like _I_ live in a mobile.

ML> Looks like I put another group in the 10 ring.

Huh?

JS> I'll have you know
JS> I have owned my own three bedroom humble(900 sq ft _including_ garage)
JS> ranch since 1969...with basement.

ML> Now just a minute, Jimbo. In the previous post, you said that
ML> you "...lived in a post box...".

That's only when I'm in the doghouse with the little woman. Other wise I
live in the basement.

ML> Don't lie, Jimmy. The better educated around here catch you
ML> each and every time you do.

LIE!? You are accusing me of a _LIE_, MISTER Liepzig!?

ML> ... "We've got Moog synthesizers...we could kill you from here."

Hmmm...haven't heard from that company in years. Are they still i
business?

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Mahty, Mahty, Mahty...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:12:21
EID:8e39 20349980
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014958
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-


JS> in disbelief and dispair

ML> That's "...despair...", Herr Idiot.

Thank you...

JS> as
JS> think of the waste of an education.

ML> And if, by some befoolish construct of yours, are referring to
ML> me; I'm sure all the Russians will get a good laugh out of you. I
ML> regularly take a couple of weeks worth of HolySmoke over there
ML> to let them see just what some people from the West are like.

C'mon...you print it out or what?

ML> You serve as an excellent example to my Eastern colleagues as a
ML> class-A example of first class, homegrown, All-American washout.

Eastern colleagues?

ML> Prosit!, Jimbo.

No, no...that's Prozac, Mahty...

ML> You're the "toast" of two continents...how about some jam to go
ML> with that?

That's what I like about this: international notoriety...
Maybe you could be my front man and get me some gigs. I understand
musical evangelism is big these days in Russia...

JS> You can't even hold a civil
JS> conversation...

ML> I don't hold civil conversations with cockroaches, either.

Oh, that really smarts...

JS> and your types are in the White House and other places
JS> of influence...

ML> I don't have time for politics. My vistas are international;

Oh, you just reside here and take advantage of my country?

ML> unlike your parochial and prosaic prospects.

'prozac prospects'?

JS> (effluence, actually...)

ML> Dwelling in that dump of a life as you do; you're the echo maven
ML> in that department.

Tsk.



... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Staal shows all...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:14:23
EID:6664 203499c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014959
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-


ML> Benihana's; which is to real Japanese food like Chi Chi's is to
ML> Mexican food.

JS> OK, OK...it's actually called 'the Golden Dragon'...

ML> Then you went to the cathouse next door, called the Golden
ML> Shower.

Hmmm...is that anything like urolagnia?

BTW, does your wife ever look over your shoulder sometimes, like the lovely
Wilbur does to me and says 'why do you waste time with people like
that'?

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Assembling the book...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:48:56
EID:2386 20349e00
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495a
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

RJ> So they had special dispensation to rule out which books were
RJ> canon and which weren't?

JS> Yes, as a matter of fact...

RJ> OK, please tell me what that might be.

Sure. The guidance of the Holy Spirit...

RJ> Was your god in the room with the
RJ> bishops at Nicea to give his personal thumbs-up-thumbs-down
RJ> say-so on what the canon was?

JS> I'm sure He was, as a matter of fact...

RJ> Was he there when they clipped the Apocrypha?

Betchum, dude!

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413  (1:228/45)
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|From: JIm Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Bobbies on bicycles, two by two...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:18:27
EID:a761 20349a40
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495b
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-


JS> n'est-ce pas?

JS> Huh?

RJ> It's French, for "nicht wahr?"

'nicht wahr'?

Wha!?

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Milk Crate - the fine properties of...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:48:10
EID:3dde 20349e00
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495c
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

RJ> Which one of the Many Faces Of Jim is in the driver's seat?

The good looking one, of course...

RJ> Would you like me to stand on a milkcrate
RJ> when I do?  Do you really want me to take the "high ground"?
RJ> I mean, it's a hassle--I've got all those LPs and books stowed
RJ> in the thing...(yes, I own a milkcrate)

Yeah...they are rather useful items. When I used to play in bars before
they made easily portable keyboards, I used a Hammond console organ and
the majority of places had stages the same height as a milk crate and I
used them to extend the stage a bit for the instrument to stand on. (I
no longer own one, however...I used Oosterman's in MILKRATE.GIF)

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  tolerance?????
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:23:24
EID:be50 20349ae0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495d
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

JS> Trust me, Bobby, like you, they had your pal Satan to guide them...

RJ> Where the hell's my check, dammit!  If I'm doing his work,
RJ> I expect some compensation.  I consider a bit of effortless
RJ> verbal abuse at you dogmatic jeezoids nothing more than pro
RJ> bono work.  If Satan doesn't cut me a check, I don't work
RJ> for him.

Hey!...cut on Asmodeus for that. He gets together with the dude on a
regular basis.

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Select this!
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:25:54
EID:369e 20349b20
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495e
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

JS> Like Preston says, I'm selective about this...

RJ> Allrightee...so anyway, you're gonna be a thief if I call you
RJ> one?

Nope...

RJ> Why would you do that?

Figure of speech...

RJ> Am I your god?

Nope...

RJ> Are you gonna
RJ> do something that your Yahweh COMMANDED you NOT to do, just
RJ> because some mere mortal gave you the suggestion?

Absolutely not...

RJ> Why is that?

It isn't...

RJ> Is my corporeal presence _that_ much more powerful than
RJ> the stonecarved moral code you've allegedly sworn allegiance
RJ> to, that you'd override it for the sake of acting on some
RJ> subcu- taneous animal desire, because a heathen gave you
RJ> sanction?

Nope...

RJ> I'm touched.

Probably by yourself...hee hee-ee


... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: jim staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:30:16
EID:e549 20349bc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3101495f
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

RS> Why not?  Are you saying you have no evidence for the flood?

JS> I am no scientist. I don't know what would or would not be
JS> satisfactory evidence for the scientific person. Myself, personally,
JS> however, I accept it in faith. I do it because I want to and no one
JS> makes me do it.

RJ> Sure is a whole lot easier than having to read a book, isn't
RJ> it, "English Major"?

Nah. I just believe that it is the right thing for me to do.

RJ> Was thinking always hard for you, or
RJ> did something happen to you to make you give it up?

Nah...thinking is no problem. I don't care to read much though, since my
vision has declined with age...

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Fun in Church...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:31:40
EID:2484 20349be0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014960
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Jim Staal <=-

KW> @MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b08490fa
JS> JS> Hmmmm...church...not exciting? Ever tried it?

JS> RJ> Best place to get sexually active women.

JS> Only if she happens to be your own wife...

KW> Jimmy, I don't believe you said this!  What ever did your wife do to
KW> you to deserve this?

Hmmm...I must have missed something. What am I being accused of now?

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Swap 'em
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:45:43
EID:a6e4 20349da0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014961
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Jim Staal <=-

KW> Bro Jim is mealy mouthed.  He doesn't even have the balls to call you
KW> a bitch if he gets riles, he'll get all prissy and call you a b***h.

JS>B***h!

KW> Poltroon!

T*k!

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  lovin every minute of it...lovin
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:35:51
EID:b2e1 20349c60
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014962
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Fredric Rice <=-

FR> Speaking in absolutes draws more attention.

RJ> Yeah, BroJimmy's getting swamped in attention.  It's not the
RJ> sort of attention I'd go for--people'd start archiving me. 

Hey...I carry with me both the scars and the credo of the abused child:
even bad love is better than no love at all...

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  RUDE!
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:46:56
EID:cbaf 20349dc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014963
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to George Rudzinski <=-

ML> Jim is very uneven (I was going to say unstable, but even I
ML> won't stoop that low for a "Staal" pun).

Sure. Right.

ML> It really makes me
ML> wonder what is on what passes for his mind when he repeatedly
ML> trumpets his size in this forum.

ML> As if that's germane to anything on this echo.

Goes way back, Mahty...years, even: I made the statement to someone
here that in real time  conversations, people do not
treat me with the rudeness I face here, as a face-less medium allows
chicken-s**ts to sit behind their little monitors and make big mouthed
belittling statements about people they don't even know.

ML> Curious.

But yellow? Like george?

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Cycle?
|Date: 20 Jan 96  19:47:11
EID:fec3 20349de0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31014964
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Lynda Bustilloz <=-

LB> in living it, or in defending it, but in insisting that anyone else
LB> MUST join her in it or face some sort of eternal consequence.  It
LB> always seems to me that people who must fall back on damnation have
run
LB> out of any GOOD reasons for promoting their view, and are left only
LB> with threatening something even worse than what they propose.

RJ> I notice our BroJim has lapsed back into his "damnation
RJ> cycle" again.

And that would be evidenced by...?

... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural superior
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Mark Hogan
|Sub:  An interesting situation
|Date: 19 Jan 96  19:51:00
EID:2e05 20339e60
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010484
And Brave Sir Mark ran away, screaming "An interesting situation"!

SA>  I'm just glad I don't have to field calls for Brentwood any more;
SA>  the old number we had was _very_ close to theirs.  I think it was
SA>  also close to Hiatus House's, too - I remember getting a couple of
SA>  calls for them.  Got a call for a church once, as well.
MH> 
MH> But were they wrong numbers? =)

Quite. :)

SA>  Mm.  Well, you can keep numbers, depending on how far you move.  If
SA>  you stay in the core area, you can probably keep it; we kept ours
SA>  moving from Elsmere to Ouellette, but she had to give it up and
SA>  change it when she moved out to Roseville.
MH> 
MH> I've known quite a few people to move and keep their lines. Of
MH> course, I realize there's boundaries, but hey. It'd be nice to keep
MH> an, essentially, trouble-free line. Killer part of it is you have to
MH> pay the same amount, whether you keep it or not. Heck, you might have
MH> to pay more in order to continue using the same line. 

I wouldn't be surprised.  Bell acts like a bloody pirate at times -
while crying "poverty" because they only made $2 billion in profit
this year.  

SA>  Heh. I KNOW you could have. It was quite amusing on its own, though.
MH> 
MH> Mm. From the detailed description of dialogue, I have to
MH> agree; you did a good job. 

:) Thank yew, thank yew.  It was just TOO funny a concept.

SA>   MH> You realize, that in using your handle as your first name,
SA>   MH> you're going to quite famous among the denizens of FreakLand.
SA>
SA>
SA>  Like .. Sticky? :)
MH> 
MH> No. Scott will just be envious that you got it done without
MH> having to pay a truckload of money. Of course, Scott didn't want his

Hehehehe. :)  Good. 

MH> last name tagged onto it at all. Perhaps that's where the difference
MH> in cost lies. Ten to one says you get comic hunters calling you,

Could be; I don't see why, though, but then one never knows with Bell.

MH> making silly jokes and/or breathing heavy. [The latter seems to be a
MH> favourite/constant among the crank-callers.] 
MH> It wouldn't be bad at first, because you can make fun of them,
MH> too. But the novelty wears off pretty quickly, I'd imagine. Time will
MH> tell, I suppose. 

But that's what answering machines and Caller ID is for, dear.  :)
Remember, I don't answer calls from Private Numbers, and if stuff
like that started happening, I'd stop answering calls from names I
don't know, too.  And just find worse and worse answering machine
messages to put on the thing.  :) Someone already hung up on the
aliens message, but fortunately, it wasn't a prospective employer.
They seem to have listened to the message, thought twice, and hung
up just as the thing started recording.

--Wolfie


"Immortality isn't about living forever - it's about making the
most of the time ye do have."
--Hudson

... "Lenguage is that we may mis-unda-stend each udda." - Krazy Kat
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Mark Hogan
|Sub:  A Day In The Life...
|Date: 19 Jan 96  20:00:01
EID:221f 2033a000
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010485
And Brave Sir Mark ran away, screaming "A Day In The Life..."!

SA>  laugh?  Where've you got your daemonic cash stashed?  The postal
SA>  system must've misdirected mine - that's what I get for having to
SA>  move so often, I guess.) I certainly wasn't able to get through THAT
SA>  part with a straight face ..
MH> 
MH> We're no less deviant, though. We've just got a small tuft of
MH> moral ground to stand on; but only in comparison to him and others

We're just _deviant_. :)

MH> like him.  As for my ill-gained loot, I don't know. You don't
MH> suppose he means the money I had to work 50 hours/week for, in a
MH> labour-intensive job, under the hokey name of Fords, do you? What a
MH> crock. [Him, and that company. =)] 

Perhaps Ford is the tool of the debbil, then?  :)

--Wolfie


"Immortality isn't about living forever - it's about making the
most of the time ye do have."
--Hudson

... "Show's over.  Go away." - Slappy Squirrel
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Been offline
|Date: 19 Jan 96  20:13:02
EID:dba0 2033a1a0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010486
And Brave Sir Marilyn ran away, screaming "Been offline"!

JB> Don't mind me, I need an upgrade badly and can't afford it,
JB> so I'm jealous. 

MB> This wasn't a case of need; it was a case of want.  And Lou has
MB> a terrible time saying 'no' to his loved ones.

SA> Gee, can I borrow Lou for a while?  I could use an upgrade, too.

SA> :)

MB> Go find your own Lou.  This one is taken.  

But I promise to give him back in one piece! :)

--Wolfie


"Immortality isn't about living forever - it's about making the
most of the time ye do have."
--Hudson

... "Kemosabe":  White man's an asshole, but is star of show. --  Tonto
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Abortion
|Date: 19 Jan 96  20:49:03
EID:9cb3 2033a620
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010487
And Brave Sir Christian ran away, screaming "Abortion"!

MG> No thanks.  When your gawd quits starving folks in Africa, I might 
MG> take a look at him.
CM> 
CM> Marty, Marty, Marty...  God is not starving them!  They're stupid, and
CM> decided NOT to migrate when their land went bad.  Don't blame God for
CM> people's stupidities.  God is just an underfundies scapegoat.  When

OK, perhaps they SHOULD migrate.  Where to?  Hmm.  I think I'll
suggest they all go to St.  Petersburg, FLA.  Specifically, to your
neighbourhood.   I trust you won't be a NIMBY on that subject ..

--Wolfie


"Immortality isn't about living forever - it's about making the
most of the time ye do have."
--Hudson

... Married.. Who me ? ... I can't mate in captivity. - Wolfie
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  [1/2] Absurdities 2 of 4
|Date: 20 Jan 96  03:25:04
EID:1d22 20341b20
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010488
And Brave Sir Lynda ran away, screaming "[1/2] Absurdities 2 of 4"!

LB> Kind of sounds like a holdover from Egyptian mythology, doesn't it?
MR> 
MR> I don't believe this is still being regurgitated. If you look up the
MR> grasshopper in a science book, it will tell you that the creature has
MR> FOUR legs it walks with and TWO hoppers. Those back two appendages
MR> have no other use than two lift the body off the  ground to hop.

LB> You missed my point -- in Egyptian mythology, there are many animals
LB> that are a compilation of various animals -- including those that have
LB> the head of a bird, and the body of a human being or a four legged
LB> animal. C'mon, this is supposed to be where you pick up on the idea
LB> that rather than being a contradiction, this is possible evidence that
LB> the Jews really were taken into captivity in Eygpt, and maybe picked
up
LB> on some of their cultural ideas.

Besides the fact that, under her ridiculous logic, kangaroos have no
legs.  Their back legs are, according to her, "hoppers", not legs.
And they don't use their arms to walk; in fact, roos NEVER walk -
they always move in a hopping motion, even when bent low to the
ground and using their arms to hop slowly forward when grazing.
(they basically rest their hands on the ground, and shift their
hindquarters forward, simulatenously, as if playing leapfrog in
slow-motion.) 

Unfortunately for Maria, the back appendages of kangaroos are,
undoubtedly legs, even though they're not used for walking.  And so
too are the hindmost appendages of grasshoppers clearly legs.  Her
logic is weak and wanting, and it seems she'll grasp at any straw to
save her sorry butt.

--Wolfie

"Immortality isn't about living forever - it's about making the
most of the time ye do have."
--Hudson

... Deja Roo ... Tromped to death by a Red Boomer in a past life.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  The Ultimate Shit List - Part 4
|Date: 20 Jan 96  09:57:05
EID:47c1 20344f20
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31010489
And Brave Sir Marty ran away, screaming "The Ultimate Shit List - Part 4"!

ML> =======================================================================
ML> ======== SHIT HAPPENS
ML> in various professions
ML> ------------------------

ML> Mathematician:  Shit happening is just a special case...

ML> Statistician:   There is an 83.7% chance that shit will happen. Maybe.

ML> Physicist (Theoretical):
ML> Shit SHOULD happen.

Cartoonist: Excuse me.  Gotta go draw some funny shit.
Whaddya mean, I gotta come up with shit 365 days a year
for 10 years?
This syndicate contract is shit.
What shit can I come up with today?
Wow, I'm getting paid HOW much for this shit?! 

Animator:  Make the shit move realistically.
Let's see; 2 frames of shit at 24 frames per second ..
Hanna-Barbera is shit.



--Wolfie


... Watch the Smurfs!    Root for Gargamel!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Mark Hogan
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  An interesting situation
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:23:00
EID:4ddb 203472e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31014109
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Mark Hogan <=-

SA> And Brave Sir Mark ran away, screaming "An interesting situation"!

SA>  I'm just glad I don't have to field calls for Brentwood any more;
SA>  the old number we had was _very_ close to theirs.  I think it was
SA>  also close to Hiatus House's, too - I remember getting a couple of
SA>  calls for them.  Got a call for a church once, as well.
MH> 
MH> But were they wrong numbers? =)
SA> 
SA> Quite. :)

Well, this is Windsor, Ontario you know. One has to verify things such as

these. Why else would we have several Brentwoods/affiliates, and at least
two 
Hiatus Houses/affiliates. =)

MH> I've known quite a few people to move and keep their lines. Of
MH> course, I realize there's boundaries, but hey. It'd be nice to keep
MH> an, essentially, trouble-free line. Killer part of it is you have to
MH> pay the same amount, whether you keep it or not. Heck, you might have
MH> to pay more in order to continue using the same line. 
SA> 
SA> I wouldn't be surprised.  Bell acts like a bloody pirate at times -
SA> while crying "poverty" because they only made $2 billion in profit
SA> this year.  

Well, it is true that they are losing some large measure of money, what

with all the new long-distance companies that so many people are subscribing

to. Mind you, that's no reason for them to whine, as it's their own faults.

See? Even our mega-billion monopolies are hurting, dear. Times are tough.

SA>  Heh. I KNOW you could have. It was quite amusing on its own, though.
MH> 
MH> Mm. From the detailed description of dialogue, I have to
MH> agree; you did a good job. 
SA> 
SA> :) Thank yew, thank yew.  It was just TOO funny a concept.

Not that I couldn't have done it better ... =) I suppose one could say 
there are advantages and disadvantages to having a safe, calm, unlisted
number. 
You have quiet and peace of mind, on the whole, but little in the way of

excitement. But the lessening of aggravation is something I couldn't do

without, so hey.

MH> last name tagged onto it at all. Perhaps that's where the difference
MH> in cost lies. Ten to one says you get comic hunters calling you,
SA> 
SA> Could be; I don't see why, though, but then one never knows with Bell.

Well, it seems relatively simple. What you did was use their format, but
fudge on your first name [for the listing]. Scott wanted to change their

format, for his own purposes. It's like a license plate for your car ...

Customizing it costs bundles. Worse, blank spaces cost just as much as any

other character [be it letter or numeric].

SA> But that's what answering machines and Caller ID is for, dear.  :)
SA> Remember, I don't answer calls from Private Numbers, and if stuff
SA> like that started happening, I'd stop answering calls from names I
SA> don't know, too.  And just find worse and worse answering machine
SA> messages to put on the thing.  :) Someone already hung up on the
SA> aliens message, but fortunately, it wasn't a prospective employer.
SA> They seem to have listened to the message, thought twice, and hung
SA> up just as the thing started recording.

Re: Crank callers. Hm. That's just it; the residence's occupant is the 
name displayed on Caller ID, but anyone can be on the phone at the time.
I had 
Caller ID for a time, but, on the whole, I still routinely picked up the
phone.
I encountered this kind of problem a lot from the caller's end, too, on
several occasions. It was silly. I admit, I was laughing, but that's only

because it wasn't a dire emergency of some sort. One might say, "Well, I
have 
an answering machine. They can leave a message." True enough; but I don't
know 
about other people, but I rarely leave a message when it's orientated around
a 
time that will pass before the occupant listens to their messages. You know,

one feels silly leaving messages whose import will expire in an hour or
less. 
 Maybe it's just me? Maybe I'm old-fashioned? Maybe I'm hard-headed.
=) 
I don't know, but it's my dime.
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side,
and it holds the universe together ... -Carl Zwanzig"

... It's amazing how much "mature wisdom" resembles being too tired.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Mark Hogan
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  A Day In The Life...
|Date: 20 Jan 96  14:23:01
EID:d183 203472e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3101410a
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Mark Hogan <=-

SA>  laugh?  Where've you got your daemonic cash stashed?  The postal
SA>  system must've misdirected mine - that's what I get for having to
SA>  move so often, I guess.) I certainly wasn't able to get through THAT
SA>  part with a straight face ..
MH> 
MH> We're no less deviant, though. We've just got a small tuft of
MH> moral ground to stand on; but only in comparison to him and others
SA> 
SA> We're just _deviant_. :)

"With Pride," as Cary Ewles said, portraying the 'Dread Pirate Roberts.'

Face it, you just like to frolic and call fundamentalists hypocrites. That's

alright; I do too. Just not as often.  Perchance I'm just not as hell-

bent as you ...

MH> like him.  As for my ill-gained loot, I don't know. You don't
MH> suppose he means the money I had to work 50 hours/week for, in a
MH> labour-intensive job, under the hokey name of Fords, do you? What a
MH> crock. [Him, and that company. =)] 
SA> 
SA> Perhaps Ford is the tool of the debbil, then?  :)

Of course it is!  Honestly; some of the subsidaries are pits of 
slime, and I'm not just talking about the building(s). At times, one has
to 
wonder what kind of criminal record your fellow 'chums' have following them

around. More paramount, to my mind, was "What happened to all of their teeth?"

Factory workers around these parts don't seem to have any teeth! It's creepy.
I 
was one of five other people that had most of their 28+ teeth. Rick's place
of 
business is even worse, if you remember. He was the only person with all
of his 
teeth, but there were two others that had 'most of their teeth.' The others
... 
one tooth, four teeth, maybe as many as twelve. "That's alright; I like
soft 
foods, anyway" they'd reply. Remind me not to work too long in a factory,
dear.
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side,
and it holds the universe together ... -Carl Zwanzig"

... Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle science fiction.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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|From: Mark Drake
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Re: Judgement
|Date: 20 Jan 96  11:54:40
EID:22fe 20345ec0
MSGID: 1:128/175 3100d80f
REPLY: 1:271/460 30fc7ca0
PID: GED G0615
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8328
-=> Kenneth Mcabee gave Gwenny the Pooh a hard time about Judgement<=-

KM> Monday January 15 1996 20:30, Gwenny the Pooh mumbled to Kenneth
KM> Mcabee:
KM>>>> Keep on, there's a being named Lucifer that might be interested
KM>>>> in what you saying. But he too one day will bow his knees before
KM>>>> God and declare that Christ is LORD.

AH>>> Sorry, your Jesus has to wait in a long line behind Zeus, Apollo,
and
AH>>> loads of other Supreme Beings that were invented before your Jesus
AH>>> was.

KM>> Sorry Alan, but Jesus was the one that created everything.

GtP> And your evidence for this is.....

KM> Gwenny,
KM> The Bible.

Prove it. Give scientific grade proof from external sources that can be
repeated that your bible is not just a caoolection of tales told around
the fire by desert nomads. Otherwise, shut the fuck up!


°±²%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%²±°
°±²                 *=> Mark "Hawk" Drake <=*                          ²±°
°±²       Sysop, Probability Broach, FidoNet 1:128/175                 ²±°
°±²                  mjdrake@mail.uccs.edu                             ²±°
°±²                                                                    ²±°
°±²      "A friend once told me 'Cheer up, things could get worse',    ²±°
°±²       so I cheered up, sure enough, things got worse!" - M. Drake  ²±°
°±²                                                                    ²±°
°±²      The only type of gun control should be => Hit what you aim    ²±°
°±²            at! - M. Drake                                          ²±°
°±²%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%²±°


... Born Again Christians are a pain because the second birth was anal

* Origin: Cult of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits, 1st Circle (719)632-0057 (1:128/175)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Richard Morrison
|Sub:  Piscatorial paradox...Act
|Date: 15 Jan 96  00:13:52
EID:429a 202f01a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1232
REPLY: 1:280/26 2d0aa8ec
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marty and Richard were killing time yakking about Piscatorial paradox...Act:
ML>
ML> RM> < Actually I know that *you*
ML> RM> never type-o
ML>
ML>     It's spelled "typo"

RM> Hey Lynda, did you read this meesage from Marty? See why now?  Also,
RM> Marty, the next time my spell checker bogs down in *your* quotes  can
RM> I go ahead and use the 'replace' button? 

(G) Point taken.  Now will you PLEASE not attach innuendo about his being
a
female because of it -- there are a billion insults you can use.  Lay off
that
one, okay?  (BTW, I gave up on spell checkers for that precise reason)




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A Paradox May be Paradoctored.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Richard Morrison
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 15 Jan 96  00:21:35
EID:bce8 202f02a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1233
REPLY: 1:280/26 2d0aa886
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Asmodeus and Richard were killing time yakking about White-lighter Religions:
RM> Hi Camodeus,

RM> Seems like a bunch of garbage if you ask me. Of course since you 
RM> posted to all I think I'll take it that way...< 
RM> Have a nice life...

Have a nice life?!  HAVE A NICE LIFE??!!
I'LL TEACH YOU TO HURL THAT KIND OF ABUSE AT ME -- I CURSE YOU IN THE NAME
OF
BELA LUGOSI AND WILL DO A MICHAEL JACKSON THRILLER DANCE ON YOUR HEAD YOU,
YOU,
BIG MEANIE YOU!!!!!!

(giggle)



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... It's wonderful to be here, it's certainly a thrill...

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  A Visit 4/4
|Date: 15 Jan 96  08:02:39
EID:feb2 202f4040
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1234
REPLY: 1:170/309@fidonet.org 888ae389
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Karl were killing time yakking about A Visit 4/4:

LB> LB> CM> wrong  with a joke?  What is wrong with two people having sex
outsid
LB> LB> CM> (where God probably wanted it), etc?


LB> LB>"Married, Will Cheat?"

LB>Right.  I don't see anything wrong with sex outdoors (unless it's on
your
LB>neighbors lawn without their permission, of course), but there is no

KS> Or on the 50 yard line at the Super Bowl...

Quite so -- that would be not only rude, but extremely dangerous!

LB>deceive your spouse, from either a Christian standpoint, OR from any
view
LB>which values honor and honesty.  I found it hideous that he would attempt
LB>to justify those echos by dragging in God as co-conspirator.

KS> Hm.  I wonder what Joseph thought when JC popped out...?...

Um, "Hey, he has my ears!" ?  (Wrong Christian -- I'm the one who realizes
the birth tale is a myth, remember.)



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... It's true, forgiveness IS easier to get than permission

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 15 Jan 96  08:15:09
EID:3fc6 202f41e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1235
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f93bb1
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Katherine and Robert were killing time yakking about CHURCHES:

SR> KW>   Your husband employees you?

SR>More likely he IMPLORES Maria to get a life.  Too bad she never listens.

KW> From the few comments she's made about him personally, and the many
KW> comments she's made about her 'place in life', I doubt that he cares
KW> if she has a life or not.  As long as the housework and cooking are
KW> done, and she submits when he wants a piece, she could be hung up in
KW> the closet the rest of the time.

RJ> And look how she chooses to spend her spare time.  Defending
RJ> that existence to people who try informing her of other
RJ> options. 

To be fair, she IS entitled to defend it, and she's entitled to place herself
in that sort of lifestyle.  Where she crosses the line is not in living
it,
or in defending it, but in insisting that anyone else MUST join her in it
or
face some sort of eternal consequence.  It always seems to me that people
who
must fall back on damnation have run out of any GOOD reasons for promoting
their view, and are left only with threatening something even worse than
what they propose.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "The poodle bites...the poodle chooses..." - Zappa

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Boni Hitch
|Sub:  HAVE A HAPPY
|Date: 15 Jan 96  08:26:18
EID:971a 202f4340
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1236
REPLY: 1:250/1004 0712eb0b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marilyn and Boni were killing time yakking about HAVE A HAPPY:

MB>I have never been satisfied with the believers' answer to the
MB>Problem of Evil, as you seem wont to describe it.  In the world
MB>we presently inhabit, it IS impossible to have good without
MB>also having the opposite, but this is not all possible worlds.

BH> Excuse me while I butt in...:)

BH> I'm not sure we *have* good and evil.  I think that is a matter of
BH> human conception.  For example:  In human terms, the holocaust was
BH> "evil". From this, the State of Isreal was born and in human terms,
BH> this would be deemed, "good".  I would be more inclined to say that
the
BH> holocaust was destructive, the building of Isreal constructive.

I am not sure you could find a single person IN Israel to agree with you
that
the Holocaust was not evil, the birth of their nation regardless.

I understand what you trying to say, but I think it is a mistake to dismiss
the notion of evil altogether -- we ARE after all, human, and there's little
point in trying to separate ourselves from our own POV.  The Holocaust was
an evil -- not only to those who were victimized by it, but to humanity
as a
whole, including those who assisted in it.  They were not gassed, imprisoned
or tortured, but they were as twisted and damaged by the events of the
Holocaust as were their victims.  That there were humans who were able to
rise above that evil and wrest something good out of it doesn't negate the
evil of the original event.




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "We must all hang together, or we will surely all hang separately"

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  apostate
|Date: 15 Jan 96  23:47:49
EID:78cd 202fbde0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1237
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8904479E
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Robert and Michael were killing time yakking about apostate:

MR> Oh, she's a Christian? Oh, "we" didn't know that

JS> Yes, I understood that from several conversations I had with her
JS> before she began her current 'let's suck up to the atheist blasphemers
JS> just to be accepted' routine. She has shown in the past to be a nice
JS> person, though there is less evidence of that of late...

RJ> Within two weeks of your debut here, I knew this sort of thing
RJ> would become common.  I'm merely surprised it took them this
RJ> long.

MH> I'm surprised -- no, not really -- that you turn one person's
MH> criticism into "common."

It's not one, Michael -- you have Staal and Maria represented above, and
it
began while you gone with Prewett and no less a luminary that Christian
Miller.
(ouch -- gee, HIS opinion really hurt. yawn.)

However, even with all of them lining up I agree with you that OVER ALL
such
garbage is not common.  Unfortunately, none of THEM realize how far out
of the
mainstream they are.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... 49% of the people are dumber than the average person.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  old posts
|Date: 15 Jan 96  23:51:55
EID:eb4b 202fbe60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1238
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 890447A1
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about old posts:
MH> Lynda,

MH> It seems that the big packet Fido ate may now have been
MH> regurgitated. If you get any angry posts from me, remember they were
MH> written before New Year's.

MH> Kindly kill them and ignore them.

Ok.  Thanks for the warning. :)



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Am I a tagline??  I don't remember........

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:47:46
EID:8786 203005e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb1239
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee8b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Robert were killing time yakking about ARK:

JH> service record to the public. BUT, the tale I heard recently claimed
JH> that he was in command of a submarine in WWI (did we even have subs

LB> Doesn't help confirm the story itself, but I checked with George, and
LB> we WERE using subs during WWI.  Lately, he's been doing some work at
LB> the Naval Shipyard and tells me they have a US sub (very experimental)
LB> that was used during the Civil War -- now that surprised me!

RJ> Whenever I go to Jackson Square in the Quarter, I occasionally
RJ> pass by the Cabildo (which is now a museum).  I don't know if
RJ> it's still there, but there was a Civil War sub in the front
RJ> cloister--looked like it was built to hold two men.  Looked
RJ> more like a flounder than anything.

Sounds like the one up here.  We wound up looking up subs in our encyclopedia
and found out we even had one during the Revolutionary War -- it didn't
manage
to sink anything, but it unnerved the Brits to the point where they moved.

On an entirely different topic, I'm reading a history of astronomers, and
one
of the little tidbits that caught my eye was that Christian Huygens, in
the
late 1600s, designed an internal combustion engine...and did absolutely
nothing
with it, since it was just a little time-killer.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A physicist is just an atom's way of looking at itself.  -- Niels Bohr

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 16 Jan 96  01:19:31
EID:dbe3 20300a60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb123a
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 890447BC
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about DEFINITIONS FOR JIM:

LB> He may have meant well -- insensitivity is a good way of putting it.
LB> That's basically what I'm referring to as "casual cruelty".  The act
of
LB> not bothering
LB> to see it from the other person's viewpoint.  George R.'s comments
LB> were also cruel -- it seems a minimal trait of humanity to be able to
LB> lay aside any debate or dispute long enough to care when someone else
LB> is going through a tough time, and not use that vulnerable period to
LB> try to score a hit on them.

MH> Please take this as a gentle question in light of what you just said.
MH> Did you offer any sympathy to Jim/Lon on his father's serious
MH> illness? (Not saying you didn't, just asking.)

I stayed out of the conversation entirely until I was certain that there
WAS
a connection between the two posts.  No, I did not express concerns to Lon,
or
to Jim, or to Shelby, either.  Shelby primarily because he mentioned his
father-in-law in the middle of an angry exchange and it seemed to me that
at
that point he wouldn't have welcomed ANY Christian expression of sympathy
--
silence seemed better. (I may have been mistaken about that, and if so I
owe
him an apology)  I learned of Lon and Jim's father(s) in the same pkt, was
startled by the similarity, but didn't mention it at all -- because of a
tiny
little bell going off that suggested that *something* was strange about
it,
I put it on hold (that packet was very hastily read) and frankly, forgot
about
it.  Next thing I knew, the conversation had erupted, and I remember thinking
that there was some reason why the connection was making sense to me, but
I
couldn't remember exactly why -- until a couple of days ago, I came across
the
pkt. in question, and found the references that Judith had been asking about.
I sent them to her (and to Jim, who had requested that any such information
be
cross-posted to him) without comment -- STILL trying to stay out of it.
I
did not express my opinion which you see above, until Al asked me directly
what I thought.

So, with that longwinded explanation, the short answer to your question
is no.
I didn't express any sympathy for Lon or Jim.  But neither did I call either
of them a liar -- I am aggravated that I am even MENTALLY questioning whether
or not there was a false bid for sympathy being made, but that's for me
to
deal with -- I won't use my mental reservations as a weapon against him.
Given my concerns, silence seems to be the kindest route to take, and the
one
least likely to cause unnecessary damage.

MH> I saw several people
MH> pounce on the evidence of their being the same person, but I didn't
MH> see anyone offering him any kind words.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself.  You are, as far as I know, correct.
No one did.  I would have if Jim had reiterated his own father's difficulties.
But when the Lon-Jim connection came to light, he acted as though he had
no
idea what anyone was talking about -- it wasn't until his own posted was
regurgitated that he suddenly remembered his own father had been ill.  I
honestly don't know what to make of that -- if it weren't for that ONE factor,
I'd be willing to accept that it was all a really wierd coincidence.  I'd
like
the opportunity to believe him, but it will take having THIS bit of the
puzzle
explained in order for me to be able to do so.  I know he has a habit of
pretending ignorance, but I don't understand why.  I've asked him about
that,
and have not gotten an answer -- it harms his own credibility, so that when
REAL things happen (like an illness in the family), people tend to assume
that
he's merely conning them again.

I actually overlook a LOT of Jim's foibles, and have remained silent or
erased
more posts than I've ever sent to him, because he seems to have a few mental
problems.  But if he really wants to be treated seriously (and I think he
really does), he HAS to stop trying so hard to keep people at arms length.

MH> In light of the fact that he's being criticized for being
MH> insensitive, shouldn't his critics be scrupulous to not commit the
MH> same offense? 

I am trying.  It's a tightrope between no getting into the thick of the
mob,
and not covering up the facts.  Jim is not assisted by us allowing him to
think that being "on his side" means covering his tracks for him, anymore
that
a alcoholic is assisted by the actions of a co-dependent.



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Fear is the parent of cruelty.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 16 Jan 96  01:50:18
EID:2aba 20300e40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb123b
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 30f94cfc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Jim were killing time yakking about DEFINITIONS FOR JIM:

LB> There may well be a Mark Staal in the world, but I'm
LB> not entirely convinced that he posts in Holysmoke).

JS> There is. He lives in Wyoming, Michigan, his wife is Karen, he is a
JS> member of Jamstown Christian Reformed Church and he _does_ post in
JS> Holysmoke.

Ok.  As I said, no entirely convinced.  I've operated as though I accept
Lump as separate, and will continue to do so.  I've been honest with you
both
in public and in private that I have a few reservations about it.

LB> Shelby obviously DOESN'T see
LB> any hope of heaven -- what does telling him his father is in heaven
do
LB> for Shelby?  His dad isn't here to read the message.

JS> Uh...father-in-law...

Thanks for the correction. :)

LB> No, I don't think it was a deliberate attempt to be cruel.  But it did
LB> show a disregard for what my comfort Shelby, in exchange for saying
LB> what might comfort Lon in the same situation.

JS> What was to be expected! Shelby is cursing God (whom he doesn't
JS> believe exists) and painting Him as the evil figure in the situation.

I know, Jim.  Shelby was angry about his father-in-law's death.  It's a
natural
part of grief, and it's not a good time to start trying to debate someone
about it, unless one wants that anger turned on them.

JS> Lon did right by pointing out that God was in actual fact the
JS> benevolent figure in all of this. What would be more comforting to
JS> tell anyone who's relative/loved one served God all his life, and died
JS> in misery: that the person just wasted all those years and as his
JS> reward he is just rotting in the ground or that the person is now in
a
JS> better place, the reward of his life of faith?

Sometimes, just letting someone get it out is kinder than trying to correct
them about it at that time.  Why does the discussion have to go into WHAT
the deceased person's current state is -- the grief is about the loss of
that
person in the lives of those grieving.


LB> One of the things that bothers me most about the Jim/Lon thing is that
LB> if forces me to wonder if either or both really have been facing the
LB> illness of a parent, because Jim professed no knowledge of his OWN post
LB> (Lon's was already being discussed, so he knew about that one) until
it
LB> was brought up...then he said something like "what a coincidence!".
LB> What, did he forget his dad was in the hospital??

JS> Our father (Mark's and myself) is currently in a nursing home...in a
JS> somewhat pitiable state of semi-consciousness. He still realizes
JS> pain, but it is doubtful that is aware of much else. He had another
JS> stroke in the hopital a day before they chipped him out to the home
JS> that left him in this final state. This has been particularly rough
on
JS> Markie, as he lived at home with the folks for almost 30 years, prior
JS> to his marriage last year.

Thank you for offering the details.  I very much want to ask why you didn't
explain this when Judith first started mentioning the possible connection
between you and Lon, but I know my asking won't give me an answer -- if
you
decide to explain this, I will be most grateful, but that's up to you.

Was your father still at home prior to his series of strokes?  Have you
and
Mark been able to spend much time with him?  I have been very fortunate
in
that every loved one of mine that has died has died very quickly, so I can't
really comprehend what it must be like to watch someone lose awareness ahead
of their body.  Jim, I don't even know if it would be welcome to you, so
I'll ask -- would you like me to pray for your father, you and Mark?

I know that you aren't one for "pre-fab" prayers, but there is a short one
that I kept in eyeview when I was having a severe lupus attack that kept
me
focussed.  You may find it of use to you:

This is another day, O Lord.  I know not what it will bring forth, but make
me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be.  If I am to stand up, help me to
stand
bravely.  If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly.  If I am to lie
low,
help me do it patiently.  And if I am to do nothing, let me do it gallantly.
Make these words more than words, and give me the Spirit of Jesus.  Amen.





--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Larry Meyering
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Re: BioGenesis
|Date: 15 Jan 96  11:47:32
EID:e804 202f5de0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30fa8524
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Larry Meyering <=-

LM> Getting the required 25 systems in two areas is, as always, the 
LM> problem. 

SQ> Larry, check out the current BACKSTAT.NA.  You don't need 25 systems
SQ> these days, just two requests. :) [However, IMHO, one should have a
SQ> decent amount of traffic before one "wastes the Backbone's time"...I'm
SQ> trying to get an echo I have up to speed and THEN I'll start pushing
SQ> it.   YMMV, naturally. :) ]

That's what I get for not keeping up to date.  Open mouth - insert foot
-
munch.

Larry

... Jesus saves. The rest of us rack up credit card debt.`
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Larry Meyering
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  Re: Question
|Date: 15 Jan 96  08:28:35
EID:2e96 202f4380
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30fa8527
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Larry Meyering <=-

LM> Dave Horn is, or at least was, on this echo.  The reason that I add
LM> "was" is because he has not been heard from since I posted the
LM> messages about the sequence of events on his Biogenesis echo to him
-
LM> along with the

JB> Dave recently posted a retraction on BioGenesis, of his claim that it

JB> was your tagline that started the fray.  He now recognizes that it
JB> was George's, and has publically (on Biogenesis, at least) admitted
JB> his error.  However, he stands firm, as do I, that the short
JB> interchange between you and George on Biogenesis, and the later series
JB> of equally offtoppic rantings by all parties concerned, was clearly
JB> pointless, inflammatory, without redeeming _topical_ virtue, and a
JB> violation of the rules.  We _could_ all just drop it now.

Funny that his retraction is dated AFTER I posted the evidence here
on HS.  Funny that he claims that it was during his achieving of messages
that *he* found out the truth.  

Dave also made *claims* on THIS echo - 

This is the echo that I posted the evidence to refute those claims.
I posted the evidence here - as the evidence of Dave's false accusations
are off-topic on Biogenesis.

Funny that there has been no retraction posted on this echo of claims 
that Dave made on this echo.  This is the echo - not his Biogenesis -
that he called george a lier. 

What was Dave's response? - Run away when confronted with the evidence.
The same thing that he claims the fundies do when they are confronted
with the evidence.  Seems that Dave has some thing in common with the fundies.


Drop it?  George and I did drop it.  You and Dave were the ones in 
post after post after post that kept it up.  After recite of Dave's 
moderator message to me and his moderator message to george *neither* 
one of us has posted a single message on Biogenesis - not one.

However, I count two more to george from Dave - then two from you to 
george - then from Dave to Glen Davis (the sysop of the BBS that both
george and I use) telling Glen that he got his netmail message and to 
do whatever he has to do - then five more from you to george - then two

more from Dave to george - then exchanges of many messages between you 
and Dave about george and one or two about me - 

ALL of these messages are posted by you and/or Dave on Biogenesis and 
responses to ANY of these messages have been declared off-topic. 
Damned white of you and Dave.  Post after post after post and all are 
declared off-topic.  You get to say what ever the hell you want to and 
then declare responses off-topic.  Damned fair of you moderators not
to take advantage of your moderator position to attack someone and
then simply declare all comment off-topic.

But is Dave done yet?  Nope.  He comes on HS and calls george a lier
for telling the truth.

And now you want to drop it?  


I can not nor will not speak for george - but for myself - I doubt that

my name will ever show up again on a post to Biogenesis. 

I find that to post on that echo would only be a defacto acknowledgement

on my part that I agree with the hypocrisy that the moderators of that echo

have clearly shown.  


LM> What is funny about the whole thing is that Dave has done exactly what
LM> he says that the fundies always do - namely make outrageous claims and
LM> run away when confronted by the evidence.

LM> Well - He made the claim - I provided the evidence that he (Dave) is
LM> wrong - He ran away.

LM> The other funny is that Dave's co-conspirator, I mean co-moderator,
LM> J. Brawley is still here on HS but he doesn't seen to be receiving any
LM> posts from george or myself -- ??

JB> (?) is right.  I'm receiving messages with my name on them.... What

JB> makes you say that I'm not?  I often (but not always) do a text scan

JB> with my last name as keyword, wich locates messages posted to others

JB> (such as this one) which contain the keyword....  Perhaps something
JB> else is grunged somewhere in FidoLand?  That would not be
JB> unexpected.... 

Perhaps.  However, someone else on this echo did respond to that message.

JB> George himself has sent me no -recent- posts directly.  I don't recall
JB> more than one or two from you, which I answered.  (Apart from some 
JB> "religious" differences, Larry, you and I have always been more or
JB> less in agreement about the ludicrous thing called "creationism.")

One needs to have religion to have a difference, John.  Religion is what

you share with the YEC's.  Their religion requires a young earth and your
religion requires an old earth - your argument with the YEC's stems from

this basic difference of religious viewpoints. 

Larry

... And now, from The Xtian Dairymen - What a friend we have in cheeses.`
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Steve Rose
|Sub:  Staal FOOLS!
|Date: 15 Jan 96  11:54:31
EID:ffab 202f5ec0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30fa8fb3
-=> Quoting Steve Rose to Jim Staal <=-

SR> Jim Staal wrote in a message to Luke Clark:

LC> So? The bible says jump, you jump.

JS> I try...

SR> If they amend the babble (yet again) and update it to say 'jump off
of
SR> a fifty story building,' would you try then, too?

I have yet to see the first alleged amending...

... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Steve Rose
|Sub:  Staal shows his colors
|Date: 15 Jan 96  11:55:01
EID:8826 202f5ee0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30fa8fb4
-=> Quoting Steve Rose to Jim Staal <=-

SR> Staal wrote in a message to Fredric Rice:

FR> I still say that Jim Staal is the one responsible for these messages.
FR> When he first came in here he sounded exactly like this.  That was
FR> before he learned what this forum was really for, of course.

MS>  ....So what's the big deal about that,Furd? You and your brother
MS> sound  exactly alike.....You both talk like ignorant morons!


SR> And you understand him perfectly.  So he knows how to speak on your
SR> level.

Why do you address this rubbish me, Stayve?

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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Eric Williams
|Sub:  ]he Case for Jesus
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:29:53
EID:962e 202f4ba0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 7cd183bb
REPLY: 1:271/320.0 30F86B20
On (13 Jan 96) Eric Williams wrote to Marilyn Burge...

EW>   Hello again Marilyn,

EW> MBþ There it is. I'll never go back. I'm too rational a person to want
EW> MBþ or need the kind of make-believe that religion requires.

EW>    Thank you for answering my post, I hope others will "tell their
EW>    stories" as well. I am genuinely curious as to why people give up
EW>    their faith (religion I mean).

You just hit on a pet peeve of mine.  You deliberately changed the
word "faith" to "religion."  You just can't accept the fact that
a person can truly have faith and then give it up.  Well, get used
to it, because it happens every day.  I find that little change in
wording of your to be gratuitous and insulting.


... Life is a sexually transmitted disease.

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Evil
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:50:46
EID:786f 202f4e40
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 4906071f
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 50090add
On (13 Jan 96) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Marilyn Burge...


KW> MB>On (05 Jan 96) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Don Martin...

MB> KW> I also see in the paper that Newt tried to get his people to
MB> KW> back down a bit. He seems to be finding out that it is a hell
MB> KW> of a lot easier to start something like this than it is to
MB> KW> stop it. 

KW> MB>Newt reminds me for all the world of an 8-year-old who has the
KW> MB>tantrum part down pat, but hasn't yet figured out that they have
KW> MB>consequences.

KW> I think that it is becoming clearer and clearer that the GOP
KW> congress is out of control--witness Tom DeLay (R-TX) boasting
KW> "We are going to fund only those programs that we want to
KW> fund." Then he adds, "We're in charge. We don't have to
KW> negotiate with the Senate, we don't have to negotiate with
KW> the Democrats." Newt started something, and now he's lost
KW> control of it. We're all going to have to pay for it.

I don't think it'll last.  I suspec that by next November, the
voters will be damned sick and tired of their little games and
be more than ready to get back to a balance of powers that 
actually gets something done.




KW> --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
KW>  * Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 7Gig, 6 Nodes
KW> (1:381/123)


... Coming soon from Microsoft:  Mouse support for EDLIN!

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:59:20
EID:5acb 202f4f60
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 f7f406c0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 6089bf11
On (14 Jan 96) J.J. Hitt wrote to Marilyn Burge...

MB> With well-written material, in the same language that we
MB> all speak today (with only very slight variations that one
MB> would expect over an 80-year timespan, it should be fairly
MB> easy to glean the wheat from the chaff of his life.  Yet, we
MB> sit here day after day, arguing about whether we can
MB> possibly know the intent of people who wrote in a different
MB> language some 2000 years ago.

MB> Is it just me, or is that a fuckin' hoot?

JH>  That's the whole reason I brought the Hubbard-submarine story up.

JH>  I've got about a dozen books by/about Hubbard and I can't find a
JH>  single reference to the date of his birth. I have to wonder if
JH>  Scientologists 300 years from now will cook up a story about
JH>  a manger and wise men.

If they are even willing to admit he was born at all.  Perhaps
they'll claim he just materialized.  Sort of a composite of
left-handed thetans or something.

JH>  The story is spurious on at least one point: Hubbard should have
JH>  been too young for military service during WWI. If this actually
JH>  occured, it was in WWII.

JH>  However, 2000 years from now a Al Schroeder type will point out
JH>  that there WAS a nation known as Mexico and they WERE a neutral
JH>  power in WW(1 or 2) and they do have islands, SO THE STORY MUST
JH>  BE TRUE.

Makes sense to me.  


... 29A - The hex of the beast

--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Jm Staal
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  dipstick sees UFO...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  17:18:21
EID:1c5b 202f8a40
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 30fa967c
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

JS> See how everything in God's creation serves a purpose Herr Leipzig.
:)

ML> Indeed. Even you can be thought of to have a purpose; although
ML> why anyone would want a 6'7" trash can is beyond me.

Ahh...so eloquent...so much for living up to the potential of a 'better
education'...

ML> Amazing that they can stack shit that high.

JS> Duh...like I've _never_ heard that before...(even in a Dutch accent)

ML> I'm sure. One would think that if you've heard it so much,
ML> you'd make attempts to rectify the situation. Apparently not.

JS> Why would someone make attempts to rectalfy such a statement?

ML> Well, you could refuse to play the part.

I do, but you never seem to get the message...

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:28:35
EID:63aa 202f6b80
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccf8
-=> Quoting Shelby Sherman to Jim Staal <=-

JS>  None: (Psa 116:15 NIV)  Precious in the sight of the LORD is the
JS> death of his saints.

SS> Until you provide some sort of evidence that this LORD exists, this
SS> "precious sight" is pretty damned meaningless, isn't it, milk-crate?

I guess we have nothing further to discuss, Shelby. BTW, you should do
something about this rage you carry around with you. Bye.

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:29:36
EID:fd66 202f6ba0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccf9
-=> Quoting Ryan Shaw to Jim Staal <=-

RS> Jim Staal wrote in a message to Preston Simpson:

PS> Damned shame about the flood not being real, then.

JS> Really!? And who deluded you into thinking that?

RS> Since you're making the claim that this so-called global flood took
RS> place, I'd like to see some evidence.  I don't want quotes from a book
RS> of fiction, I want evidence.
RS> What do you have to lose, Jimmy?  Just think, if you could convince
me
RS> you'd have one more on your side.

I guess there is nothing further to discuss here, Ryan. Thanks for the
common decency, however.

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Ryan Shaw
|Sub:  Fun in Church...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:31:00
EID:ef4d 202f6be0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccfa
-=> Quoting Ryan Shaw to Jim Staal <=-

RS> Jim Staal wrote in a message to Steve Rose:

JS> Hmmmm...church...not exciting? Ever tried it?

RS> Yes, in fact I have.

RS> It consisted of a large population of older folks dressed in their
RS> spiffy clashing suits and dresses.  For about an hour everyone sat
RS> silent listening to one man preaching stuff at them.  It had the air
RS> of a large brainwashing session.

Hmmm...doesn't sound like my church. Not all churches are of this
nature. The ones that are alive and growing do not resemble this in
age, dress or format.

RS> Then in the lobby they served NOODLES!  Oodles and oodles of NOODLES!
RS> There were enough NOODLES for everyone there to have their share of
RS> the oodles and oodles of NOODLES!

I know nothing of this noodle business...


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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Maria...I just met a girl na
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:33:33
EID:47e1 202f6c20
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccfb
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

JS> Never has, sir...

RJ> So they had special dispensation to rule out which books were
RJ> canon and which weren't?

Yes, as a matter of fact...

RJ> Was your god in the room with the
RJ> bishops at Nicea to give his personal thumbs-up-thumbs-down
RJ> say-so on what the canon was?

I'm sure He was, as a matter of fact...

RJ> Gotcher se'f a fanclub there, Jimbo.  Mebbe she'll let you
RJ> smack 'er 'round a bit if you think she gets out of line.

JS> Where/how/why would you even conceive of such a notion, Robert?

RJ> It just seems that sometimes, when you take two crooked little
RJ> jigsaw pieces and put 'em together, you get some twists and
RJ> turns that just fit together perfectly.

Relevance???

... ÄÄÄÄÄï¶ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ°°°°°³ÆÍÍÍ͵  Tagline Injection!
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Lynda goes over...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:36:21
EID:2673 202f6c80
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccfc
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

PS> I can understand how you might be jealous of those more tolerant and
PS> erudite than yourself, but how is displaying reasonableness and a
PS> willingness to learn and to think in any way "sucking up" to anybody?

RJ> Especially since she clearly shows NO intention of rejecting
RJ> her Christianic beliefs.

Her 'theology' demonstrates that in some ways she already has...

JS> None of the above. It is more of the juvenile 'peer' thing where we
go
JS> with those of larger number, just to fit in, be cool...I'm sure _you_
JS> understand...

RJ> Hmm...One billion Christians in the world.  A few million
RJ> atheists and agnostics.  If Lynda wanted to "fit in" with the
RJ> larger group, why would she hang out on an echo where she's
RJ> in the minority?

It was obvious I referring to the echo...

RJ> It wouldn't have anything to do with her refusal to be your
RJ> little lapdog like Malleable Maria, would it?

Like you, I haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about...

RJ> So Jimbo, don't
RJ> _you_ get a rush when one of your fellow fundies eggs you on
RJ> and bleats, "Right on, bruddah!"?

Only when I speak from the Word...

RJ> I'll bet you feel pretty
RJ> "cool" yourself when you're on stage as the focus of attention
RJ> from a whole bunch of Christers,

No, but it does have a healing effect...

n'est-ce pas?

Huh?



... this is the end...
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Rattle...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:38:16
EID:ed07 202f6cc0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccfd
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Jim Staal <=-

RJ> Which one of you do we have here this time?

JS> Man! Hee hee-ee. I sure pulled a _lot_ of chains with that one, didn't
JS> I? 

PS> Y'think Jesus is happy with your behavior?

JS> Oh...feigning ignorance is a sin, is it?

RJ> Mightn't that come under the shadow of "false witness"?

Maybe...but admitting your ignorance (when you just had to reach over
and grab the dictionary from your desk) just to rile the folks a bit
isn't...

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Fun in Church...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:39:17
EID:f349 202f6ce0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccfe
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

-=> Quoting Steve Rose to Jim Staal <=-
RJ>
RJ> Which one of you is it this time?

SR> If attending a church is your idea of excitement...then I understand
SR> why you prefer to remain a fundy all your life: you do not crave ANY
SR> excitement.

JS> Hmmmm...church...not exciting? Ever tried it?

RJ> Best place to get sexually active women.

Only if she happens to be your own wife...


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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Marty...
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:40:12
EID:3c77 202f6d00
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30faccff
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Jim Staal <=-
RJ>
RJ> Who's commandeering the cobwebby rat's maze this time?

JS> Ahhh...Marty, Marty, Marty...that is the problem. I have at least one
JS> thing you lack: faith. And faith...well, faith is:

JS> (Heb 11:1 NIV)  Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and
JS> certain of what we do not see.

RJ> So if you say something really asinine, and then a few months
RJ> later you have total faith you never said such a thing, that
RJ> makes it true, doesn't it?

I dunno. You gonna admit to this statement in a few months? Pretty silly
talk you have going here, Bobby...

... this is the end...
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  tolerance?????
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:41:21
EID:5079 202f6d20
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd00
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-

JS>  How could the
JS> inquisitionist be Christian with his torture and pain?

RJ> Gee, I dunno.  Maybe they had "faith" to guide them.

Trust me, Bobby, like you, they had your pal Satan to guide them...

... this is the end...
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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Select this!
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:42:38
EID:5efe 202f6d40
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd01
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Jim Staal <=-


PS> Yes, you say you're selective about this--but all that shows is that
PS> you're no more a Christian than I am.

RJ> It's hilarious that he says he's "selective about this."

JS> Duh. Gnomeular Simpson said I was 'selective about this'. I didn't.
JS> Heesh! Git it right, Jackson...

RJ> Oh, so then you're NOT selective about it?  So if enough
RJ> people call you a screaming, fully-accessorized queen, you'll
RJ> jet to Hollywood and start prancing down Melrose Avenue?  We
RJ> call you a wifebeater, you're gonna take a few pistolwhips at
RJ> the "little woman"?
RJ> How about we just start calling you a freethinker with a
RJ> decent streak observable without the use of an electron
RJ> microscope? Will you start acting like one?  Or are you,
RJ> indeed, "selective about this"?

Like Preston says, I'm selective about this...

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Sean McCullough
|Sub:  
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:47:06
EID:1120 202f6de0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd02
-=> Quoting Sean McCullough to Dave Ray <=-

> -=> Quoting Jim Staal to Dan Ceppa <=-

>  DC> The Pharasees were not the rulers of the temple.  They did not
>  DC> need the temple as a power base.  Further, not only did they
>  DC> support the teachings of Jesus, they _authored_ the bulk of
>  DC> those theories that your godling claimed as his own.

>  JS> Whew! Now I would like to some evidence for any of the above rubbish,
>  JS> MISTER Ceppa...

SM> Nine tenths of what the Christians claim Jesus invented was really the
SM> inventions of Rabbi Hillel, and the Essene communities of Mt. Carmel
SM> (the original in Judaea, not the one in Wacko Waco), Callirhoe, and
SM> Heliopolis/Alexandria (the two cities in Jesus' time were kinda like
SM> Colorado Springs and Fountain are today).

I would still like to see some _Biblical_ evidence (you know, the valid
kind) for any of the above rubbish...

SM> Point being: The Midrashim Hillel were household books, and Hillel's
SM> name a household word, before Miriam ever got herself knocked up --
SM> however she managed to do so.

Miriam was the sister of Moses. What relevance? BTW, and evidence
(biblical) to support this claim? (about the household word stuff)

SM> See: Rev. Dr. C.F. Potter's __The Lost Years of Jesus Revealed__,
SM> ISBN 0-449-13039-8, Fawcett/Ballantyne NYC, 1958-1992. This is an
SM> account, by a major Dead Sea Scrolls scholar, of where/how Jesus spent
SM> the "invisible" years, those between 12 and his late twenties.

Read a couple of pages from it: BUNKO! Wet dreams of an apostate
'theologian'. It still gathers dust in my upper closet shelf.

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  Christian
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:48:43
EID:74e4 202f6e00
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd03
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Lynda Bustilloz <=-

LB> Everytime
LB> you preach a gospel of hell and damnation, you show where your heart
LB> lies, and I won't let you slander the Name of my Saviour unopposed.

MH> I'm not going to get involved in this argument, other than to note
MH> that Jesus himself taught a gospel of hell and damnation for some
MH> people. Certainly his emphasis was on God's mercy and grace, but he
MH> didn't seem to shy away from saying that some people are destined,
MH> through their own poor choices, not to share in it.

An honest, truthful response. Thank you.

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Fido
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:50:06
EID:6d2d 202f6e40
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd04
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Lynda Bustilloz <=-

LB>"Once"?  Don't be coy, Jim -- I am stating I AM a Christian. If you wish
to
LB>say otherwise, have guts enough to say so flat out.  And on this *I*
will be
LB>the literalist and affirm that the consequences for you saying so, or
even
LB>judging in your heart without saying so regarding it will be greater
for you
LB>than for me. My belief is between me and God -- it's not up to your vote.

KW> Bro Jim is mealy mouthed.  He doesn't even have the balls to call you
KW> a bitch if he gets riles, he'll get all prissy and call you a b***h.

B***h!

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  persevere
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:51:34
EID:7968 202f6e60
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd05
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Marty Leipzig <=-

ML> Careful Lynda. If you don't agree with every jot and tittle of
ML> Jimbozo's beliefs, he'll label you a "heinous blasphemer".

ML> Not directly, of course.

LB> (G)  Considering the company that places me in, I will gladly accept
LB> the title. Odd how "blasphemer" seems to mean "won't go along with my
LB> particular brand of lunacy".  I guess Jim thinks he's God.

You are in error.

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|From: Jim Staal
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Staal shows he's colored
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:52:40
EID:29f8 202f6e80
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 30facd06
-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Marty Leipzig <=-

ML> Yeah. But it puts the onus on him.

PS> Now he's going to have to trudge *all* the way upstairs to read that
PS> OED of his. (What fool puts an OED on the second floor of his house?
PS> You've got to make sure the foundation is fairly strong to even have
PS> one on the ground floor.)

Silly...it is on the ground floor. I live/work in the basement...

... ÄÄÄÄÄï¶ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ°°°°°³ÆÍÍÍ͵  Tagline Injection!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 228/500 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub:  Judgement
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:30:06
EID:e8d5 202fa3c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fab964
REPLY: 1:271/460 30f29f7c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Kenneth!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Kenneth say to Alan:

KM>>> Keep on, there's a being named Lucifer that might be interested
KM>>> in what you saying. But he too one day will bow his knees before
KM>>> God and declare that Christ is LORD.

AH>> Sorry, your Jesus has to wait in a long line behind Zeus, Apollo, and
AH>> loads of other Supreme Beings that were invented before your Jesus
AH>> was.

KM>     Sorry Alan, but Jesus was the one that created everything.

And your evidence for this is.....

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... 1st Law of Thermodynamics: Go to class!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:30:45
EID:a753 202fa3c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fab984
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30f244bb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to John:

JP>> Torquemada was a pope follower.  Not a Christ follower.

DW> Would Christ go around calling people "bitch", John?

DW> Now that we have established that you are not a "Christ follower", who
do
DW> you follow?

Kennedy??

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Never tell Jehova's Witnesses you're invoking Pagan dieties downstairs.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  forgiveness available
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:32:14
EID:b368 202fa400
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fab9f6
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30f317a6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to MARTY:

JS>> Nah...I was at the local large Schuler's Books tonight
JS>> and...heesh...what a bunch of geeks and dweebs! Losers! Especially
in
JS>> and around the metaphysics section. Guffaw!

ML>> I see you added to the biomass.

JS> Huh!?

I think he might be implying that you fit in perfectly.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Ecletics do it any witch way.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  individuals
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:33:29
EID:9880 202fa420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30faba69
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30f3541c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to All:


MR>> prefer my mail being addressed to MY name. So go toss that one in your
MR>> hopper, since you haven't a clue as to my position on most things.


LB> More hoppers!

So hopper is a position.  Would that be in that Chinese sex book that has
"butterfly" in the title.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... A religion without mystery must be a religion without God.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  COINCIDENCE SCREW UP
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:35:37
EID:6a9f 202fa460
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fabadd
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30f35422
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Katherine:

KW>> Christian is some form of xtian.  The other xtians on this echo don't
KW>> seem to willing to embrace him, though.

LB> Well, would YOU?!  Who knows where he's been??! (outside, having a
LB> threesome without his wife's knowledge, I guess)

With goats....

Saw a cute tagline the other day....

... Why did god make men?  Cuz cucumbers can't lift boxes.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Culture owes its peaks to politically weak ages. - Nietzsche
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  325
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:41:46
EID:4e05 202fa520
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fabc2b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 6042813b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Pam:

PG>> I believe now being Wiccan is now a legal religion so
PG>> there's christian, jehovah (sp?) witness, moslem, buddist,
PG>> judism and perhaps one or two I haven't mentioned.

JJH>  Is "Judism" the worship of Judy or the worship of Jud?

JJH>  I keep getting those two mixed up.

It's Judy and Cary Grant was a high priest.



Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... It's okay, the confusion is all in your mind.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Why
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:44:23
EID:e475 202fa580
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fabd86
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 604e58c4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Monty:

MG>> I was a high priest of wicca for 8 years and ran my own coven
MG>> for about 4 of those 8.

JJH>  Prove it.
JJH>  Lets see your union card.

JJH>  (Why is it that every paganoid, or claimed former paganoid, always
JJH>  has a fucking job title? Everyone's a fucking officer of some sort.
JJH>  Where in the hell is the rank and file? They're all fucking Chiefs,
JJH>  or perhaps I should say High-Chiefs, and there aint no Indians.)

Paganism does not consider itself a "lay"  (realizing that I'm leaving that
wide open) religion, but a religion of clergy.  Once you are pagan, you
are expected to study and learn and grow and take on the role of hps or
hp yourself.  I am only a first degree Wiccan....after four years.  
Guess I'm just lazy.  But I AM a minister of the ULC church. 

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Do not wait for an echo when you drop a rose petal.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Luke Clark
|Sub:  Waco jury foreman co
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:52:41
EID:f138 202fa680
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fabee4
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 30f1bd84
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Luke!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Luke say to J.J.:

JH>> No, but the "general strike" (work stoppage) continues to be
JH>> a workable tactic. It's what finally got the Shah out of Iran
JH>> (only to be replaced by an even worse regime).

JH>> Not as romantic as muskets and sabres, but it works.

LC>  But wouldn't the Military be the LEAST bit reluctant to open
LC>  fire on their own families?

Not some that I've met.  BTW, you've come a long way, my friend.  I wasn't
sure you'd stick it out after all shit they gave you at first.  Glad you
are still here.  

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Deja Mooo.... knowing you've heard this bull before...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   James Bethell
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 15 Jan 96  20:55:57
EID:31ac 202fa6e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 30fac022
REPLY: 1:353/710.0 30f22310
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, James!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
James say to Josh:

JT>> Did you know that after about 2 generations of heretics/pagans there
JT>> is a good chance that the third generation will totally escape the
JT>> influence of the religion of the sacraficed god?

JB> My god was not sacraficed; you are mistaking the Devine for Jesus. My
god
JB> did not feel the need to publically crucify (sp?) her own son. And I
am not
JB> second or third generation (atleast, not in this life).

I can't resist....who is mistaking Devine for Jesus.  Was Jesus a sidekick,
too.  Did he ride a horse?  Am I betraying my age?  

Actually, we do have "sacrificial king"-type gods.  There's  a good chance
the xtians stole that idea and perverted it into the sickness that is trying
to take over the world.

Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?

Gwenny


... Bother, said Pooh, as he tried to install OS/2.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: abortion
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:10:03
EID:003c 202e8140
MSGID: 1:157/200 3002071c
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
PRESTON SIMPSON spoke thusly to CHRISTIAN MILLER:

PS> PS> And here I was thinking that Noah was commanded to fit two of
PS> PS> every creature into the ark. Guess that the Bible's lying about
PS> PS> that too.

PS> CM> You really are sad.  You take the obvious, and twist it to make
PS> CM> the Bible "lie".  Get a life.
PS>
PS>Is this the best you can do, Christian? Can you not answer this
PS>charge?

Has he answered *any* question yet?

... A closed mind is open for evil...

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


--- InterEcho 1.14
* Origin: PC-Ohio PCBoard * Cleveland, OH * 216-381-3320 (1:157/200)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 157/200 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: churches
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:23:04
EID:3e87 202e82e0
MSGID: 1:157/200 3002072d
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
PRESTON SIMPSON spoke thusly to CHRISTIAN MILLER:

PS> PS> No. The counselors I've been to were of no use and I have my own
PS>ways
PS> CM> Should've tried Christian counselling, instead of those doing it
PS> CM> for $$$.
PS>
PS>Ludicrous. Christians engaging in psychological counseling should
PS>leave their religion at the door when treating non-Christians.

I dunno.  Think of it as evolution in action.

... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


--- InterEcho 1.14
* Origin: PC-Ohio PCBoard * Cleveland, OH * 216-381-3320 (1:157/200)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 157/200 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: cussing
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:28:05
EID:0e54 202e8380
MSGID: 1:157/200 3002073e
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
CHARLES ROLLINS spoke thusly to DAVID HILLING:

CR>You are just proving to all how limited your intelligence is.  Yeah,
CR>I'm convinced: you are really ignorant of an expanded vocabulary..I
CR>thought you all were just putting me on but you are really serious
CR>about not knowing how to talk like an intelligent adult..must have
CR>some brain damage..you are really showing that WV is full of
CR>ignorant, hillbilly rednecks but what else is new.

This from a man who is apparently unable to type complete thoughts.

CR>I guarantee you one thing.  You won't use that smut of what you call
CR>a language on WV_TALKS because you will be kicked off because
CR>profanity over the fidonet is against the rules of ALL echos.

It is, is it?  I trust you have evidence of this rule.  If you don't,
eat shit and die.

... Iced Tea, the house wine of the south.

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


--- InterEcho 1.14
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Fof
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:33:06
EID:fa16 202e8420
MSGID: 1:157/200 3002074f
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
STEVE QUARRELLA spoke thusly to DAVID WORRELL:

SQ> dw>> From what I've heard, that was because the German government
SQ> dw>> raised a big stink.  Apparently, the have laws against such
SQ> dw>> things.  Compuserve is working on a fix to block the entire
SQ> dw>> alt.* heirarchy from German users while still letting other
SQ> dw>> users around the world access those newsgroups.
SQ>
SQ>This from the government that also has a problem with Wolfenstein 3D,
SQ>Rise of the Triad, and Doom.  Yet I have several co-workers who tell
SQ>me that there's a sex shop in every German airport in which they've
SQ>landed.

Yeah, but that's different.  There's a law against displaying anything
Nazi-related, and all three have swastikas in them, at the least.

... The Discworld is in for a wild time, when Death gets a life...

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: homosexian christuals
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:41:07
EID:2efe 202e8520
MSGID: 1:157/200 30020760
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
CHARLES ROLLINS spoke thusly to DAVID WORRELL:

CR> DW> Really?  Is God going to send the act of homosexuality to hell,
CR> DW> or is he going to send the homosexual to hell?  Is he going to
CR> DW> send the act of murder to hell, or the murderer?  The act of
CR> DW> stealing, or the thief?  The act of blasphemy, or the
CR> DW> blasphemer?  -!-
CR>
CR>The person sends theirself to hell and destruction.  God loved people
CR>so  much that he sent his Son to take that punishment for us.  We
CR>send ourselves if we don't accept his provision for getting out.

So your god is an extortionist, is he?

... My job is starting to interfere with reading the mail.

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  News? on a honeymoon
|Date: 14 Jan 96  16:55:08
EID:cdda 202e86e0
MSGID: 1:157/200 30020771
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
KARL SCHNEIDER spoke thusly to DAVID WORRELL:

KS>DW>It doesn't have to be a history professor.  My high school
KS>chemistry teacher
KS>DW>got me started celebrating Mole Day: 6:02 am on 10/23. (A mole,
KS>for those who
KS>
KS>Hm.  Do you celebrate March 14 too?
KS>

I do.

... Therapy is good, but screaming obsceneties is cheaper.

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  White-lighter religions
|Date: 14 Jan 96  19:16:09
EID:d8ce 202e9a00
MSGID: 1:157/200 30020782
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
JOSH TALBOT spoke thusly to ASMODEUS :

JT> As> #1  white-lighter--person who is a practitioner of any 'holy'
JT> As> religion.
JT>        How do you get a non-holy religion. I mean besides atheism
JT>(sorry its   classified as one and I see no reason to consider it
JT>otherwise).

Explain this, please.

... C:\>erase c:\reality.sys  copy a:\pern\*.* c:

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  "prove it ain't true!"
|Date: 15 Jan 96  00:15:10
EID:b7db 202f01e0
MSGID: 1:157/200 30020793
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
JOSH TALBOT spoke thusly to HECTOR PLASMIC:

JT> HP> ROFL!  Again with the demand to prove a negative?  Going for the
JT> HP> record, Al?
JT>
JT> HP> Do you think you're doing anything but making yourself look more
JT> HP> silly?
JT>        Hector, while Al is acting real dumb. You are acting like a
JT>total  jerk. Just because you don't beleive his philosophy dosen't
JT>mean it's not  true... for him.

Oooo, a solipsist.  This'll be fun.  There's a tall building with your
name on it.

... A kind word and gun gets you more than a kind word alone.

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To:   Kris Okelly
|Sub:  Greetings
|Date: 15 Jan 96  00:16:11
EID:eb56 202f0200
MSGID: 1:157/200 300207a4
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
KRIS OKELLY spoke thusly to GLEN ZILLY:

KO>
KO>Thanks for the message!! well don't worry I take none of this stuff
KO>hard! :-)

So, has Yoda finished teaching you English yet?

... A problem can be found for almost every solution.

* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet:  kdm2@po.cwru.edu  *


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|From: Styx Allum
|To:   Coridon Henshaw
|Sub:  Religious Experience
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:00:00
EID:2888 20300000
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0797af50
REPLY: 1:250/820 30f2abbf
>SA> You are expecting, perhaps, that Slick Willy will be re-elected?

> Would YOU vote for a fundamentalist?

Yup.  I have yet to see a politician that I consistently agree with
on all isues.  Despite his fundamentalism, I feel that Newt Gingrich
is one of the finest politicians to grace the republican party.
I'm proud to have him as Speaker of the House of the United States.

I would be even more proud to see Phil Gramm as president.
Both Newt and Phil are go-getters.  They don't sit on their asses,
and they tell it as it is.

(As opposed to Slick Willy telling a different story every time,
and never doing a damned thing for working class America.)

Bob Dole used to be one of my favorites.  In recent years, however,
I've seen him lean a bit too far toward liberalism and compromise
for the sake of voter support.  I would much prefer to see him as
head of the senate while Gramm takes office as president, and Newt
stays right where he is.

Perhaps THEN we could see some positive cooperation in Washington.

In short, I'm willing to tolerate a certain amount of Christian
bullshit in order to achieve a more viable standard of fairness
with regard to taxation of those who dare to work for a living.
I'm tired of paying for lowlife scumballs that will never amount
to anything more than parasitic money pits that get paid to breed
like rodents.
[soapbox mode off]

It appears that I have drifted off-topic.  Let us regain our focus
on more appropriate HolySmoke targets.  Thanks.
-Styx

---
* Origin: Let Adam pay for that apple if he's gonna eat it. (1:152/20)
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|From: Styx Allum
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Homosexual Christian
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:04:01
EID:84bc 20300080
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0797af51
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 900da7ea
>LC> Then you were wrong when you said that you can't have one
>LC> without the other.

> I said you can't BELIEVE in one without the other.  You Sir,
> tried to twist what I said into EXISTING.
> So no, I was not wrong.

Ah.  Kinda like when you said that you were leaving, right?
Looks like you were wrong about that, doesn't it?

---
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|From: Styx Allum
|To:   Jose Gomez
|Sub:  White-lighter Religions
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:14:02
EID:b03e 203001c0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0797af52
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 89040F09
> Guys.....GET A LIFE!!!

>   You can't go around condeming people! Only God can judge!!

That statement seems pretty hypocritical after such a statement.

> Just stop fighting like little kids

Who are you to make such a judgment after stating that
"Only God can judge"?  Are you God?  :)

---
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  Re: Violating physics -- use a condom.
|Date: 16 Jan 96  06:25:33
EID:09ac 20303320
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 30fb44de
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 ed120ed5
JB>>> Nor do I "violate physics."

HP>> Of course not.  You just don't understand it.

JB> Typical fundie thinking on your part: "saying it's so makes it so."

ROFL!  John, you've _demonstrated_ your lack of understanding in that
field.  You've also demonstrated a startling lack of ability to back
up your claims about gods hiding in the empty spaces.

--- Tear it up
* Origin: I was a teenage toadsucker (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Re: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 16 Jan 96  06:31:26
EID:99b5 203033e0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 30fb44df
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 30f7ffc1
JS> One...a bunch...what's the difference?

We already knew your grammatical skills were poor; now we find out your
math skills are weak as well, eh?

--- Tear it down
* Origin: He who made kittens put snakes in the grass (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Re: CHURCHES
|Date: 16 Jan 96  07:31:39
EID:9824 20303be0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 30fb545b
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 30fa9273
RM>>>> How do you know they were innocent?

DC>>> Got any evidence to show that they weren't?

RM>> Are YOU innocent?

PS> Of what? What do small children do that warrants death at the hands
of
PS> a marauding band of savages?

Uhhh...have parents who don't belong to the religion held by the marauders?

--- Tear it open
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PATH: 380/25 270/101 218/801

|From: Hector Plasmic
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: Yer momma sews socks that smell.
|Date: 16 Jan 96  07:44:11
EID:7c97 20303d80
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 30fb545e
A> I am 18 years of age

Ah, another teeny bopper looking for a non-standard religion with which
to play.

I suppose you can at least claim to have an excuse the adult members of
more "orthodox" religions do not.  Not much of an excuse, though.

D>>  Not another one... 

Yep, another one.

D>> Got any evidence for these "devils" you speak of? 

A> But of course, I would not call upon them if I did not see proof that
A> they existed.

Then _where is it_, little fellow?  Can we see it, or is it, like the
evidence all fundies (meta, reasonable, radical, etc.) claim,
inaccessible "at the moment" (whenever the moment may be)?

BTW, excellent that you have seen _proof_ that they exist -- that should
make it easy to provide us with some mere _evidence_ that they exist, eh?

--- Tear it up
* Origin: Even my thermite is old (1:380/16)
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|From: Don Martin
|To:   Steve Rose
|Sub:  Zilliness Squared!
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:02:57
EID:74a3 202f6840
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30fb9d3a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 0f46f6d2
Steve Rose said "Zilliness Squared!" to Don Martin, adding: 

GZ> I know you must have some question about your religious beliefs or you
GZ> probably would not be on this forum. 

DM>     You presume a great deal without, apparently, having READ very
DM> much of this forum. It is a shooting gallery. The fundies are the
DM> little tin ducks here.

SR> The fun is that one only need plastic bullets.  No need to waste the
SR> real ones. 

Right. Fundies don't understand real, anyway.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0 1 662
SEEN-BY: 261/669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600 3010
SEEN-BY: 261/3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
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SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801

|From: Don Martin
|To:   George Rudzinski
|Sub:  DEFINITIONS
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:14:17
EID:0ae5 202f69c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30fb9d3b
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 30f69d85
George Rudzinski said "DEFINITIONS" to Preston Simpson, adding: 

JB> None of his other aliases or personalities are able show any erudition
JB> either.

JS> Tsk. Tsk!

PS> Are you going to set about improving yourself, or continue making an
PS> ass of yourself?

GR> Give the guy some credit, he is good at making an ass out of himself.

No great feat, when you consider the quality of the raw material
he has to work with.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0 1 662
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SEEN-BY: 261/3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801

|From: Don Martin
|To:   Scot Bear
|Sub:  Zilliness Squared!
|Date: 15 Jan 96  13:20:50
EID:6856 202f6a80
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30fb9d3c
REPLY: 1:154/69.0 30f675aa
Scot Bear said "Zilliness Squared!" to Don Martin, adding: 

> READ very
> much of this forum. It is a shooting gallery. The fundies
> are the little tin ducks here.
SB> 
SB> ...and isn't it nice that they all align themselves in neat little 
SB> rows????  bangbang 

Without a leader to follow, a fundy can't find his way down the
track. It's good for all of us.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0 1 662
SEEN-BY: 261/669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600 3010
SEEN-BY: 261/3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801

|From: Don Martin
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  ARK nut
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:16:23
EID:b134 202f7200
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30fb9d3d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 607e8504
Martin Goldberg said "ARK nut" to Don Martin, adding: 

MG>> And didn't even understand that much.
DM>     His favorite activity is trying to figure out the secret 
DM> message in the bar code.

MG> We've got enough problems without this kind of stuff.  The sad truth
MG> about your little jest is that in many cases it's all too true.  The
MG> "Stamp of Satan" is littered among our fruits and veggies at the
MG> supermarket.  What next?  when you purchase your next bible, will it
MG> be laser scanned as well? 

Even better--take the text file of the KJV (public domain) and
print out the whole thing in bar code. Put together a package with a
scanner and sell it to fundies (who else would be dumb enough to
buy?) as a neat way to read your Bible directly onto your hard
drive. Have the package blessed by Alan Jennings and make a mint
with an ad in the National Enquirer.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0 1 662
SEEN-BY: 261/669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600 3010
SEEN-BY: 261/3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
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SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225
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SEEN-BY: 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801

|From: Don Martin
|To:   All
|Sub:  Conference Guidelines
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:35:40
EID:8b2a 202f7460
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 30fb9d3e
REPLY: 1:279/14.3 30f87814
Chuckles Rollins got all in a swuvet about "Conference Guidelines"
and said to Styx Allum:

SA> This echo provides an open forum where one can argue for or against
SA> religion(s).  Both religious and anti-religious views are allowed.
SA> Atheists, agnostics, religious right-wingers, bible babblers,
SA> bible bashers, preachers of doom, echovangelists, conservatives,
SA> liberals and those with (hopefully curable) crucifixation are welcome
SA> in HOLYSMOKE.  (As long as they abide by the guidelines above!)


CR> Your rule #3 is directed to Christians and your last paragraph above
CR> already cuts down Christians "bible bashers, preachers of doom
CR> echovangelists, etc. 

How is welcoming all types of people cutting down Christians? He
didn't make them ESPECIALLY welcome, as befits their exalted status
in the eyes of Chuckles?

Note rule #3:

SA> [3] If you wish to post messages on this echo please try to keep
SA> your comments and ideas on a rational level.  This will help
SA> to facilitate an open and free flowing dialogue.
SA> Please refrain from entering statements like:
SA> "I know I'm right and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid!"
SA> or
SA> "You're gonna burn in hell if you don't accept god."

SA> Such messages only serve to irritate others, and do little
SA> more than to raise the noise level of the echo.

Notice that Christians are not mentioned by name in this rule,
only the disgusting behavior we typically see from them is
indicated. Having said something like those very things himself,
Chuckles takes the restriction personally.

CR> I'm stopping my feed to this echo myself,
CR> you don't have to bother. 

Don't let the threshold hit you in the knuckles on your way out.

CR>  ! Origin: The Q-Continuum, Sissonville, WV (1:279/14.3)

He'd rather go back to his icebox snakes any way.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org | don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/0 1 662
SEEN-BY: 261/669 1000 1041 1082 1137 1180 1181 1350 1557 2000 2600 3010
SEEN-BY: 261/3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
SEEN-BY: 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801

|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Annette Spence
|Sub:  Perhaps here's the reason.
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:15:28
EID:a65f 202f49e0
Annette Spence, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

ML>  AS> to my main point...I was always taught that God could not even
look
ML>  AS> upon the  face of sin...and I *DO* believe he is all powerful....how
d
ML>  AS> you b'lieve it  is possible that he can do anything and yet cannot
loo
ML>  AS> evil in the face?
ML>  AS> 
ML>  AS> and this is one I really do struggle with.
ML>
ML>      Well, it just might have something to do with the fact that God
ML>      doesn't exist.

AS> snicker...yes..you could look at it that way...

Indeed. I do.

AS> but that kinda defeats
AS> my whole purpose...which was to discuss a theological point with
AS> him...

If you enjoy arguing the number of angels that could dance on
the head of a pin, by all means. So others around here would
first wish to see evidence such angels exist before we argue
their terpsichorean abilities.

AS> since *I* believe he exists this is not a problem for me...

It should be.

AS> I am
AS> just working on the bits and pieces that I have not figured out yet.

Sorry if I think that seems a tad oxymoronic. Trying to figure
out the "mysteries of faith" is like drinking scotch all night
pursuing sobriety.

AS> Since *you* don't believe in him we would be better off either not
AS> discussing it at all..or moving on to a different point.

But, that is the point. I don't believe in anything.

AS> I know that
AS> convincing you of his existance  is impossible..and I am not into
AS> shoving things down someones throat anyhow.  got any ideas?

Certainly. Regular doses of science and skepticism.


... And you say you hate taglines? Tell me more about your childhood...

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/113 26 992 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Styx Allum
|Sub:  Conference Guidelines
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:19:54
EID:a9bb 202f2a60
Charles Rollins, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Styx
Allum: 

SA> Enjoy and happy debating!

SA> Styx Allum, Moderator (1:152/20)
SA> P.O. Box 5150
SA> Eugene, OR 97405-0150

CR> Your rule #3 is directed to Christians and your last paragraph above
CR> already cuts down Christians "bible bashers, preachers of doom
CR> echovangelists, etc. But you say nothing about the other users who use
CR> profanity regularly to bash God and Christians so even your rules are
CR> discriminate.  Isn't the  fact that the frequent use of profanity here
CR> is also just as disruptive? I'm stopping my feed to this echo myself,
CR> you don't have to bother. 



And another one bites the dust....


... I don't care who you are. Quit walking on water, you scare the fish.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/113 26 992 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Richard Morrison
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:20:26
EID:7ece 202f2a80
Richard Morrison, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
Marty Leipzig:

ML>     Can we say "tautology"?
ML>     Didn't think you could.

RM> wait... tau...t....ol...oooooogy.... yea, I DID IT >>>>G<<<<< he he
RM> he..

Great. Now just mop up that puddle of drool from around your feet.

ML>     Onward Christian soldiers...like the Iraqi army.

RM> buy a jeep...

Sheep don't drive.



... "Unleash the atheists! Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!" - PS

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/113 26 992 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Richard Morrison
|Sub:  Piscatorial paradox...Act of Cod.
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:46:30
EID:7c34 202f75c0
Richard Morrison, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
Marty Leipzig:

ML> RM> < Actually I know that *you*
ML> RM> never type-o
ML>
ML>     It's spelled "typo"

RM> Hey Lynda,

Hey dickhead. Why are you calling to Lynda in a message to me?
You think other people actually read the crap you post?

RM> did you read this meesage

"meesage"? A communique from Ed Meese?

RM> from Marty? See why now?  Also,
RM> Marty, the next time my spell checker bogs down in *your* quotes

Of course your spelling checker bogs down in my quotes. Seeing
as how it's your spelling checker and contains no words of over
4 letters, it would naturally be overwhelmed by my acumen.

RM> can
RM> I go ahead and use the 'replace' button?

As if I care what you do.

ML> we don't have time for the likes of you here.

RM> We? You and your mouse in your pocket?

No mice necessary. Just me and the other areligious raptors
that make this forum a hobby.

RM> Listen, if you don't like the garbage on your plate quit putting it
on
RM> mine.

Listen, shove it up your ass. You don't like what I write, then
don't read the bloody things. Or is someone holding a gun to
your head making you read them?

RM> I've seen in this conference that most like this kind of thing.

Has it ever occurred to you that it might just be you that has
the problem and not the "most" here?

RM> If you don't then mellow out as well.

Up yours. I'm extremely mellow, although I don't suffer fools
lightly.

ML>     I can understand how a five-letter word would tax your limited
ML>     mental abilities.

RM> Like "Jesus"...

Sheesh. You really have a low opinion of your savior if you
compare him to yourself.

ML>     I do not need a spelling checker

RM> Maybe you should get a second opinion.

Why? I have your opinion, and it's totally worthless.

RM> I know that I'm no spelling
RM> wizard but I don't claim to be one either... (wow,,, what we argue
RM> about in Holy Smoke....)

It's really not that terribly difficult to spell a word
correctly. That you should get so torqued off about it rather
says leagues about you abilities; or, more to the point, your
total lack thereof.

RM> I guess that bait in your stomach must be pretty raw right now...<

Nope. Haven't had sushi for a couple of weeks.

ML>     No, I'm not terribly interested; much like your posts.

RM> But you keep coming back... ;-)

What can I say? It's a weakness I have. When someone parades
around in a concentric red-circle pattern tee-shirt, I just
cannot resist lobbing a few downrange.

ML>     Don't bother. Just go back to sucking on your toes. That seems
ML>     to keep you busy enough.

RM> Which ones? :->

The ones you're currently filtering your speech through.

RM> in the service for HIS Service

Squawk! Dicky want a cracker?



... +Origin: PAUL HILL, NETWORK!  Killing people for an all-loving Jesus!

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  To Each His Own
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:17:00
EID:541e 202f4a20
Steve Quarrella, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

SQ> On 8 Jan 96 07:12pm, Robert Hutcheson wrote to Marty Leipzig:

RH>         Like the topic says my friend.  May God bless you.

SQ> "Bravely ran away away...when danger reared its ugly head, he bravely
SQ> turned his tail and fled..."

"I didn't!"

"No, I never...!"

(The first recorded instance of the sum-total of a fundy's arguments.)


... It's too late, she went too far, she lost the sun...she's come undone.

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  White-lightning Religions
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:46:50
EID:5750 202f75c0
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "White-lighter
PS> Religions"
As> As for Carbon dating it has proven that the Earth is many billions of
As> years old, not merely thousands,

ML> All the superstitious nonsense aside, you are quite in error
ML> with this statement. The half-life of 14C is 5,730 years; and
ML> as such, is only useful in determining the age of organic
ML> remains to about 45,000 YBP.

PS> I falsely asserted that this date was 10,000 years.

A slight slip.

PS> I throw myself
PS> upon the mercy of the court, citing my tender years and the fact that
PS> most of my soi-disant science "education" came from a fundamentalist
PS> school and that I have not yet had the opportunity to rectify the
PS> situation as I would like.

At least you admit to error, unlike your fundy brethren who
revel in them.




... Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?! HELL man, I've SEEN one!!!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  WHY
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:43:49
EID:1653 202f7560
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "WHY"

PS> Pity. Here, we go in for the sledgehammer, belt sander, chainsaw, and
PS> ever-popular weed-eater of truth.

ML> And, don't forget, the ever-so-ever popular speeding Kenworth
ML> of reality.

PS> That too. It makes such a lovely sound when smashing the fragile
PS> constructs of faith.

The hyaline tinklings of shattered beliefs; the melodic jangling
of fundy's nerves; the castanet like chattering of Scripture.

A veritable concerto of the bizarre.


... Like stirring puddles in front of conifers: casting swirls before pine

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Gods, not god
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:37:31
EID:b993 202f2ca0
Christian Miller, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
Marty Leipzig:

CM> On Saturday, January 13th, 1996 - Marty Leipzig wrote:

ML>      Atheist.
CM>
CM> Yup, what one starts.... the rest will follow...

The first step on the road to learnedness.

Yet so many fear walking without their cosmic crutches.



... Again, you've snatched defeat away from the jaws of victory. 
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Married, Will Cheat
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:46:58
EID:6cbe 202f2dc0
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "Married, Will
PS> Cheat" 
PS> The crushing evidence of reality, similar to the cold, crushing depths
PS> of the North Atlantic.

ML> So a few more Mark 48's won't really matter...

ML> "Roger, Hammer. Torp away!"

PS>  Mark 48s are a bit heavy for Seahawk-Foxtrots. Best try something
PS> lighter.

Yeah...yeah...yeah. Actually, he was spotting for a Chicago
class sub and after dropping a line of sonubouys; told the sub
where to put the fish.

(Whew! That was a narrow escape...)


... ICR: Institute of Credulous Retards.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Homocrystal sextants.
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:48:42
EID:ed85 202f2e00
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "Homocrystal
PS> sextants." 
PS> Hmmm. Lichen. We could equate him with lichen.

ML> I was thinking more along the lines of a mutant strain of
ML> dysentary virus found in the lower intestines of leperous
ML> warthogs, but you may be right.

PS> Possibly, though I like yours more. Vivid.

And given his fulminations of late, rather appropriate.



... "Work from evidence of the universe & advance beyond your gods." HP
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:49:18
EID:5227 202f2e20
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "A LITTLE HELP
PS> FROM SP" 
PS> I'm betting on the next 1918-like flu to come out of Asia. Some of the
PS> farming practices there encourage mutation of flu virii.

ML> No shit?

PS> Yup. It's a real pisser.

The facts that these virii can be nasty...I don't disputum.




... I tossed that vile copy off a cliff...made an obscene clone fall.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  Staal shows he's colored
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:50:36
EID:0b92 202f2e40
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "Staal shows he's
PS> colored" 
JS> About? Cocaine gives you bizzare sexual ideas? What!?

ML> Something about "slips". Look it up.

PS> Give it up. Jim won't bother--Freud's too erudite for him.

ML> Yeah. But it puts the onus on him.

PS> Now he's going to have to trudge *all* the way upstairs to read that
PS> OED of his.

Nope. He can't. If he pulls it out, the TV would fall over.

PS> (What fool puts an OED on the second floor of his house?
PS> You've got to make sure the foundation is fairly strong to even have
PS> one on the ground floor.)

Since when do double-wides have a second story?


... "Why couldn't this guy be on the plane instead of Buddy Holly?!"- Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Preston Simpson
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:51:43
EID:b866 202f2e60
Preston Simpson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

PS> Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "2 SO, WHY GOD?"

ML> Well, there's always you trailing along at the base of the bell
ML> curve.

PS> Base, hell. He's an outlying bit of datum--didn't even make it onto
PS> the curve.

ML> The only person ever to score negative on the standard
ML> Stanford-Binet (he mispelled his name and used #3 pencils).

PS> Probably didn't understand more than a couple of the words on the test
PS> anyway. (You know, the simple ones. "a," "an," and "the.")

The last in your list has too many letters for our "English
Major" to comprehend.



... Itane? Tua mater!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  So, why God?
|Date: 15 Jan 96  05:55:01
EID:1ce9 202f2ee0
Robert Jackson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

ML> Mind the mutant sea trout...
RJ> What, you mean Blinky, the Three-Eyed Trout?
ML> "Ummmm...UMMM! Now that's good eatin'!"
ML> 
RJ> BTB, did you get my netmail?

Indeed I did. Now, Herr Jackson; Russkaya or Belly Ice, which
for you?

... A man who turns green has eschewed protein.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  HUCKSTERS
|Date: 15 Jan 96  06:01:54
EID:d0db 202f3020
Michael Hardy, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Michael Hardy <=-

MH> Do you mean the book says that anyone who believes himself to be a
MH> Christian is one? No, it says in several places that it is possible
MH> to deceive yourself into thinking you are when you're not.

ML> So, Mike, just how are you so sure that you're a true Christian
ML> then?

ML> Isn't it, however remotely, possible that you have deceived
ML> yourself somewhere along the line?

MH> Yes. That's why it's important for people who want to be Christians
MH> to examine their beliefs and lifestyles closely in relation to the
MH> teachings of Christ.

Doesn't it strike you just the least bit odd that they should
examine their beliefs closely in relation to their beliefs?

Seems a tad tautologous.

... God would know EXACTLY what would convince you he exists.  T.A. Wunder
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  forgiveness available
|Date: 15 Jan 96  06:03:30
EID:e9d8 202f3060
Jim Staal, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty Leipzig:


Now, just who (or what) is receiving this message?

-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Jim Staal, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
ML> MARTY LEIPZIG:
ML> Now, which Staal is really receiving this message?

-=> Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JIM STAAL <=-

JS> Nah...I was at the local large Schuler's Books tonight
JS> and...heesh...what a bunch of geeks and dweebs! Losers! Especially in
JS> and around the metaphysics section. Guffaw!

ML> I see you added to the biomass.

JS> Huh!?

ML> See?

JS> What!?

Exactly.

Case closed.

... Many people are unenthusiastic about your work.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:19:41
EID:3398 202f4a60
Jim Staal, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty Leipzig:


-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Jim or Lump? Which Staal for you [J/L]?

JS> 'J'. How many lumps for you? One or two...step up here...

Now which Staal is once again advocating violence (or is it
another sham at high tea)?

-=> Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JIM STAAL <=-

JS> why, there are two versions on my monitor. What would you like to
JS> know?

ML> Which is the correct version?

JS> Which ever one works best in a given application...

ML> Even when they're contradictory?

JS> To...?

ML> Each other.

ML> Why would they need two versions if they were exactly the same?

JS> I don't know about 'they',

Now there's the understatement of the month.

JS> but for me, one is in English I can
JS> understand first time through.

I see. Many comic books are in English.

JS> The other is fine old English
JS> literature in style, but the meaning is harder to grasp.

True, it is difficult to grasp the meaning of mythology.

ML> Sheesh...this isn't that difficult a thread to follow, Jim. Try
ML> and think for once.

JS> Hey, Marty bud...loosen that collar a bit and lay back, OK?

Hey, Jimbo. Have a bud, and don't get so exercised.

JS> I knew
JS> what you were trying to imply, but I don't see it that way.

That's not all you don't see.

JS> I don't see
JS> them as contradictory.

Of course not; you're not allowed to see them any other way.

JS> They say the same thing. One is just a little
JS> easier for Jim Staal to understand.

You must be referring to that version that has excised every
word of greater than three letters.

JS> It speaks to me. Before I met the
JS> NIV,

New Industrial Version?

JS> the writings of my favorite epistler (Paul)

Paul suffered head trauma. I'm not surprised to hear that he's
your personal favorite.

JS>  were just a bunch of
JS> 'shewest thou me's. And I'm not Al Bundy. I don't sell women's shoes.
JS> Ya know? 

No, I do not. Who, or what, is an "Al Bundy" and from where did
this "women's shoes" reference emerge?



... "The Will of God is the sanctuary of ignorance." -- Spinoza  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Staal shows
|Date: 15 Jan 96  06:54:14
EID:8f6c 202f36c0
Jim Staal, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty Leipzig:


-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Is this really Jim Stall or just another soy-derived substitute?

JS> Hey, let's get the spelling of my good name correct, OK? 'STAAL'!
JS> Never 'Stall'!

To whichever of you are reading this, I was not referring to
your surname, merely to your mental agility. So, which Staal is
reading and replying this time?

ML> Freud was right.

JS> About? Cocaine gives you bizzare sexual ideas? What!?

ML> Something about "slips". Look it up.

JS> Nope...mom said never to look up one of those...

ML> So, you just stay home and watch a little TV instead?

JS> Uh...no. I like concerting. I like Italian cuisine...and Chinese...and
JS> a visit to the Japanese steakhouse.

And order the Steak Tartare medium well, no doubt.

JS> I even like to PARTY!...though I
JS> do not allow myself the privilege...anymore...

You do seem a rather dour sort of type.


... Deja Mooo.... knowing you've heard this bullshit before...  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 16 Jan 96  05:13:35
EID:6fca 203029a0
Jim Staal, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty Leipzig:


-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jim Staal <=-

ML> Jimbo, is this really you or someone just as ignorant?

JS> I really despise your new 'intro' lines...

How unfortunate. Now, answer the question. Is it you or someone
else in Wyoming who's just as ignorant?

ML> Nope. Just as you seem not to have a problem with being a
ML> poltroon.

JS> Poltroon, eh? Stand up and look me in the face when you say that,
JS> MISTER Leipzig! (rent-a-MILKCRATE [TM])

ML> I don't need a milkcrate, Comrade.

JS> So they tried to tell me. I would not believe it. I do not believe it.

Who cares? You also believe every jot and tittle of the Bible.
So much for the credence of your beliefs.

JS> I have seen no evidence of it...for _I_ am 6'7", 285lbs of

No...this is just too easy...

JS> well marbled
JS> Hollander...

Particularly between the ears.

You know, Jimbo; you strike me as someone with a serious ego problem.
I'm no psychiatrist (never claimed to be, in fact); but no one else
in this forum ever trumpets about themselves as much as you.

Are we supposed to be intimidated or impressed?

We're neither.

ML> Frightening thought, 'eh what?

JS> Nah...you seem more of a man of words...

Yep. That's what they tell me at the gym.

ML> Even with all your aliases?

JS> Name one that wasn't intentionally obvious? You have been here longer
JS> than I so there was no intent to fool ya...

ML> Not for a picosecond.

JS> 'picosecond'???

It's a science term, Jimmy. My apologies, I should have
realized that it would have flummoxed you completely.

ML> "Nothing personal"? Well, Jimbo, I think you're deceptive,
ML> self-aggrandizing miscreant of a fundy.

JS> A "miscrean of a fundy"? 'eh?

ML> Nope. It's spelled "miscreant". Get a dictionary, Jimbo.

JS> Nah...just didn't hit the 't'...

You often miss things right off the "tee".

JS> And how/where, pray tell, did I impugn your integrity? Are you saying
JS> you are not a heinous blasphemer

ML> "Heinous":  Extremely wicked, atrocious.

ML> "Blasphemer": One who blasphemes; i.e., to speak impiously
ML> of sacred things.

JS> Heinous (adjective, modifying 'blasphemer'. They would go hand in
JS> hand. One could not be a righteous blasphemer now, could one...)

Sure. In fact, if you defame Satan (who is sacred to some), you
would be. At least, that's what you'd believe.

JS> blasphemer. 
ML> Well, Jimbo; I am not wicked; nor am I atrocious; in fact, my
ML> wordsmithery reflects refinement and exemplary English.

JS> My my...you can wax eloquent if you desire...

Jealous?

ML> As I think there is nothing sacred, there is nothing to
ML> blaspheme. Indeed, how can one defame that which does not exist?

JS> But I do and there is, therefore you did...in my eyes...

"...in your eyes..."? So who appointed you arbiter of all things
sacred and profane? The old ego sure is in overdrive, ain't it,
Jimbo?

JS> and brutal abuser of those who
JS> profess God's name?

ML> Indeed, if my dependance upon logic, science and skeptical
ML> examination of evidence can be construed as "abuse"; may the
ML> ranks of such abusers swell.

ML> You may call rational examination and dissection of beliefs
ML> "brutal". Sorry, mate, the truth oftimes is just that.

JS> No, I'm referring to the personal attack on the individual...

For someone so allegedly big, your skin seems definitely
monomolecular in thickness.

JS> as
JS> evidenced by your current inflamatory 'intro' lines (as a small
JS> example of the bigger picture...)

Hey, what do you expect from a "heinous blasphemer", Jimbo?

Sauce, Herr Staal, for the goose.

ML> Strike 3.  You may now bugger off.

JS> Sorry...that is not something one does by himself...

Odd. That sure seemed to be possible in your case.

JS> If that is the case, then let's show some evidence
JS> to support that claim. You may start here...with me.

ML> I just did. You accused me falsely and you labeled me unjustly.

JS> I stand by my statements as accuarate, fair and true...but don't let
JS> that impede our obvious progress in our relationship...

True, it has progressed. I before thought you were a boor. Now
I am sure of it.

ML> But, then again, you're a fundy; and I just consider the source.

JS> Then you know it is a well thought out,

Someone alert the Oxymoron Patrol.

JS> just and congenial
JS> representation of yourself in this forum.

Of course it isn't. It came from you, therefore it couldn't be.

... And from now on, you'll have to learn to hate the things you fear. 

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Christopher Baker
|Sub:  HolySmoke Central Committee Announcement
|Date: 15 Jan 96  06:37:10
EID:b9db 202f34a0
Christopher Baker, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
Fredric Rice: 

> Since one hour every day and another hour every night is set aside
> as an "official" check-in time, 'Smokers can try to coordinate days
CB> 
CB> how about you call 'em H'Smokers and the H can be silent? then they
CB> won't be confused with nicotine-dependent addicts. [grin] 

Have a cigar.

... If this isn't war, why is CNN massing on the border?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  S.I.N.- Society for Intellectual Nihilists
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:00:12
EID:f25b 202f4800
Robert Jackson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

ML> Cyberlord, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to All:
ML> 
Cy> NO amount of belief establishes FACT.
ML> 
ML> Now here's someone with an ironclad grasp of the obvious.
ML> 
RJ> Yeah, but what more did s/he have to add?  Nada.

Zip. Zilch. Zero. And a few other Z words.

RJ> I must admit, that's the first nonbeliever to come through
RJ> with a one-line spam that I've seen.  I get the biggest kick
RJ> out of the pathetic jeezoids who have nothing more to
RJ> contribute than "HE DIED TO SAVE YOU!" and `nary another word
RJ> was heard.' What's that all about?  Are we supposed to be *SO*
RJ> overawed by this one line that we all fall to our knees at the
RJ> foot of our desks and begin singing hallelujah choruses?

It's nearly as humorous as those who sashay in here with some
old, tired ICRapola and post it like it's the latest edition of
Revelation.

You'd think that just because it's the first time they've seen
it, it does not automatically follow that it's the first time
we've seen it.

RJ> Maybe
RJ> these people think they know the Jedi mind-trick.  Of course,
RJ> as Obi-Wan explained to Luke, it only works on weak minds.

They're all just Rancor fodder to me...

... "Acceptable or not, sir, it is the truth." - Data
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  High Censuosity.
|Date: 15 Jan 96  14:45:27
EID:f4be 202f75a0
Robert Jackson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

ML> Dan Ceppa, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to
ML> Maria Russell: 
DC> You can find the documentation in your own book.  It was against
DC> Jewish Law to have a census!
ML> 
ML> Strangely, it is also against the law in Norway; for fear of
ML> deleting all the Eriksons.
ML> 
ML> They don't want to be accused of taking Leif off their census.
ML> 
RJ> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAA
RJ> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
RJ> 
RJ> STOP IT!  STOP IT!  STOP IT!!

No, really. True story.

In fact, the punishment for such oversight in Norway is so
heinous that no one will count that country's inhabitants...
In fact, they've taken leave of their census.

... Don't let little things bug you. Have a gnat's day.  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  Python trivia
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:04:47
EID:0890 202f4880
Robert Jackson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig: 

JB> Helpme!!!!!! Who ate Crunchy Frog?
RJ> 
RJ> Constable Parrot!  
ML> 
ML> Superintendent Parrot, you git.
ML> 
RJ> Izzat from the sketch as seen in the show, the movie ANFSCD,
RJ> or Live at the H'wood Bowl?  They _slightly_ alter the
RJ> sketches each time--just enough so you really don't notice.

Being a Pythonic purist (a member of the "One, True Python"),
it comes from the one, true book "All The Words."

So there.

... Darn! Those palm trees are blocking my view of the Gulf!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  love
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:22:56
EID:14ea 202f4ac0
Katherine Wintersnight, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said
to Marty Leipzig:

ML> LB> That's LYNDA Carter.

ML> DW> I don't think any of us are interested in how she spells her name.
ML> DW> She has other, more interesting attributes.

ML>     Yep.

ML>     Both of them.

ML>... "TITS! TITS! TITS! Welcome to Thoracic Park!"

KW> Is this not heresy against Gwenny's Divine Tits?

Not at all, I'm just being _broad_ minded...

... *BLAM!* *BLAM!*  Make peck'ular patterns in my wheat field, will ya?!

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  persevere
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:06:55
EID:7308 202f48c0
Lynda Bustilloz, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

LB> Lynda and Marty were killing time yakking about persevere:

JS> My my, 'christian', you have been here a tad too long, haven't you?
It
JS> must be just a joy for the evil pagans here when alleged Christians
JS> tear each other up in public. I would recommend that if you wish to
JS> discuss your differences you might do it by way of private E-mail or
JS> via the internet or even to discuss doctrinal differences to go to
JS> Holy_BibleII.

LB> Am I making you so uncomfortable that you feel the need to ask me to
LB> leave now?  I'm sorry I don't fit your image, but you'll simply have
to
LB> live with it -- or YOU leave.

ML> Careful Lynda. If you don't agree with every jot and tittle of
ML> Jimbozo's beliefs, he'll label you a "heinous blasphemer".

ML> Not directly, of course.

LB> (G)  Considering the company that places me in, I will gladly accept
LB> the title.

Welcome to the club...

LB> Odd how "blasphemer" seems to mean "won't go along with my
LB> particular brand of lunacy".

"A reading from the book of Jimbo; Idiots 22:34 'Let us blaspheme'".

LB> I guess Jim thinks he's God.

Jim doesn't think.



... "Bother," said Pooh, as his 10 gauge took care of Owl. 
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:23:20
EID:0e77 202f4ae0
Robert Jackson, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Marty
Leipzig:

ML> I made the REAL stupid mistake of donating at 1:00 pm (after a
ML> light lunch of cherubim and seraphim) and then going to the
ML> gym to work out at 3:00.
ML>
ML> Gad...anhydrous ammonia smells terrible.
RJ>
RJ> That's why an amyl chaser helps. 

Gack...it's cheaper if you order that stuff after dark and
get the nitrate.

ML> It's not the skeeters that bother me so much (I pour scotch all
ML> over myself and roll in sand. That way, the mosquitos that bite
ML> me get drunk and start throwing rocks at each other...), but
RJ>
RJ> 
ML> it's the damned horseflies. They're called "soldiers" (soldat),
ML> because of the chevron stripes on their dorsal side. These
ML> suckers have landing lights they're so damned big. They are
ML> also winged little piranhas, taking a fell swoop and a chunk of
ML> flesh with each pass.
RJ>
RJ> I've seen some nasty horseflies, usually when swimming.

Horseflies swim?

RJ> Those 1.5" bastards that sound like V2 buzzbombs are wicked
RJ> little things, and I swear they do like to snack down.  The
RJ> fun is swatting 'em out of mid-air with something substantial,
RJ> like a cricketbat--see how far you can send one's corpse.

Hell, the ones in Siberia require a 9 mm. No exaggeration!

ML> Houston's (and probably the entire GufCoast) is having some
ML> sort of AsioAdaibaticArmenioTransylvanian strain of flu that's
ML> totalling some older folks and very young kids. Nasty shit.
RJ>
ML> Yep, folks goings tits up here in Houston from related upper
ML> respiratory infection brought about by this strain.
ML>
RJ> I don't think it's reached here...yet.

I heard something about the recent spate of warm weather
hereabouts stemming the tide of this particular strain. I need
to talk to Doc Glodbreg and have him explain this little
oddity.

... He doesn't need the Weirding Module...He's weird enough already. 
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Metafundy redux
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:27:21
EID:5f96 202f4b60
Martin Goldberg, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Robert
Jackson: 

MG>> Did anyone ever discover just what it was that Stu invented 
MG>> that proved that god existed? 

RJ>         I think it was a perpetual motion machine, for which 

MG> I was given to believe that there was a hime video of Stu operating
MG> whatever the hell it was.  I've looked at the local Blcokbuster under
MG> "Comedy" but can't find it. 

Maybe it's in the "Fantasy" section.

I wouldn't know, though. I boycott Blockbuster because they
caved into Rev. Wildmon and his pack of Religious Reichsters.

... He's a swarthy and moody Feudal Tenant...a dark and stormy knight.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  holysmoke.faq.ab
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:30:24
EID:65ef 202f4bc0
Martin Goldberg, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to David
Hilling: 

DH>  Hey, everybody! Didja hear about Staalie bein' arrested for 
DH> attempted rape?  Course, after examining the evidence, the 
DH> charge was reduced to Assualt  With a Dead Weapon.

MG> But the evidence wouldn't stand up in court.

Especially after he put it in hands of his lawyer.


... The flasher planned to quit, but decided to stick it out another year.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  "Good things heathens have done for me lately"
|Date: 15 Jan 96  09:32:57
EID:9564 202f4c00
Steve Quarrella, who wanted to be a miner, but was lousy adit, said to Jesse
Jones:

SQ> I just wanted to mention to you that David Rice sent me a wonderful
SQ> book for Christmas, and that Marty Leipzig sent me some rather nice
SQ> cigars. It seems that they appreciate using my BBS, so would you like
SQ> to speculate as to why these two "heathens" would do something so nice
SQ> as to send me gifts?

We're not real heathens...we're false heathens...


... Apathy error, press any key. Or don't. See if I give a shit. 
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: David Johnston
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  Have A Happy
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:04:00
EID:fe37 20300080
-> DJ> Why?  If they broke the rules once, they'll break them again.
-> Those who were realized they were wrong and confessed had only broken
-> the rules in the first place because others had tempted them or
-> tricked them into doing so. And those others won't be at the next
-> party.

Oh please.  Can't anyone think for himself, or are we all puppets?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
* Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)
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|From: Steve Stuart Nacarlo
|To:   Styx Allum
|Sub:  God
|Date: 16 Jan 96  10:14:00
EID:b85f 203051c0
PID: RoboBOARD/FX 1.04RWZ-370-CO7
MSGID: 100:1000/0 e44a3b88
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0616c3d4
TID: GE 1.1+
--> Steve Stuart Nacarlo Quotes a message written by Styx Allum
--> to Steve Stuart Nacarlo on 01-12-96 22:58 saying:

SA> Apparently, he also gave us CAPS LOCK keys.
Thats true! But I wanted to...., Well yeah..Ok!...

SA> Unfortunately, he didn't teach his loyal sheep what they do.
Thats true too.

Thanks, I am learning!

Rgds
Steve Stuart Nacarlo

--- SmartLink
* Origin: SMARTLINK INTERNATIONAL NETWORK TECHNOLOGY (100:1000/0)
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|From: Ric Carter
|To:   DON MARTIN
|Sub:  Homosexual Christians?
|Date: 11 Jan 96  08:46:00
EID:2218 202b45c0
DM> Ric Carter said "Homosexual Christians?" to DON MARTIN, adding: 

DW>>  Christian - it is simply one of the facts of life.
CM> Yeah, just like we evolved from monkies. 

DW> What makes you think we evolved "from monkies"?
DM> You mean, apart from his tendency to smirk like a baboon eating
DM> shit from a wire brush?

RC> Now you're insulting our noble simian cousins.  No, we and the apes
RC> and monkeys and lemurs all evolved from insectiverous tree-shrews,
RC> which is why Fundies have this tendency toward shrewishness.  Well,
RC> that and their colourful butts like mandrills, too.   

DM> Now hold on--I only suggested how a fundy resembles an ape: the
DM> real insult to simians would have been showing how an ape resembles
DM> a fundy.

I *must* insist that the closer resemblence is to shrews, not simians.
Like shrews, fundies devour several times their own weight in insects
daily, and engage in disfiguring combat with each other, and are quite
infested with fleas, ticks, and other internal and external parasites,
and have brains the size of a pumpkin-seed.  And they shit everywhere.
Indiscriminately.  Continuously.  Liberally.  Foul little fuckers...

... Terror: Ellison and his continual PMS!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Ric Carter
|To:   J.J. HITT
|Sub:  accccccccccccccck
|Date: 13 Jan 96  17:29:00
EID:13e8 202d8ba0
RC> In New Mexico, bundles of dried chile peppers are widely 
RC> sold by roadside vendors.  In Chimayo, New Mexico, along the
RC> road to the Sanctuario where "holy mud" cures the ailing and 
RC> desperate, signs are posted announcing "holy chiles".  I 
RC> guess when you eat too many, what your nostrils and mouth 
RC> and ears emit is "holy smoke".  Yow.

JH> And the following morning, you shall know the true meaning 
JH> of "Holy Shit".

Or at least, "Hot Shit!"  But of course, if it's REALLY Holy Shit,
it too will cure various ailments - thus, after producing same,
you should spread it copiously upon the ailing & aching & deformed
& desperate portions of your anatomy, and the anatomies of those
near you, that miraculous cures may be effected.  Holy Shit!  HS!
It should be especially good for treating headaches, toothaches,
eye and ear and nose pains, sore throats, stomachaches, muscular
cramps, sucking chest wounds, fractures, burns, abrasions, cuts,
gunshot injuries, decapitations, etc.  Holy Shit!  Miraculo!


... A mighty Hot Dog is our lord!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Ric Carter
|To:   SEAN MCCULLOUGH
|Sub:  CHURCHES
|Date: 13 Jan 96  16:59:00
EID:e15e 202d8760
> BTW "God-breathed" just means "channeling an entity claiming to be
> divine."

SM> Unless one is Rastafarian, in which case "God-breathed" refers to
SM> the sacred Ganja........    :-)

Ya, the breath of god may come from many sources - Holy Smoke!

... OLIVER'S LAW OF LOCATION - No matter where you are, there you are.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Ric Carter
|To:   KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub:  ----
|Date: 13 Jan 96  17:03:00
EID:6d0f 202d8860
AS> AS> Why, Dan, EVERYBODY knows Jesus has this long flowing light brown
AS> AS> hair, and a small beard, and looks too ethereal to have ever been

AS> DC> Yes, that describes most everyone in that era....     

Long flowing hair: probably.  Light brown hair: unlikely, as inhabitants
of Palestine tended to be dark & swarthy.  Bearded: many men, at least.
Small beard: only those men with enough free time to bother trimming it.
Ethereal: only those who stay blasted on hash & opium, or who have TB.

AS> I guess it's sort of like all those people who draw Aphrodite looking
AS> like this year's blonde, not very Greek at all...

KW> Or think that she was just a "Goddess of Love" .

Blonde: hey, She looks good in the posters & dust-jackets, so Aphrodite
books & films & cosmetics can sell - nothing like adapting a deity to
the marketing realities of here & now, eh?  Naw, Earth Mama just is NOT
going to make it onto the covers of mass-market magazines.  Love-goddess:
ya, Earth Mama gonna hit ya with a TON of love, "tough love" for sure,
and it's NOT what gets sung about on MTV.

KW> * If Aristole was straight,why'd he write Posterior Analytics?

He just HAD to squeeze it out...

... SPAM - Squirrels, Possum and Mice.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   MARIA RUSSELL
|Sub:  Bible Follies
|Date: 15 Jan 96  12:57:00
EID:c75b 202f6720
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Maria Russell Said:

MR> of discussion. And the theory of evolution is taught to 
MR> our children as if it were fact (and you know we disagree 
MR> on that).

Wrong. Evolution is taught as a fact, since it is. Evolutionary
Theory is not taught as a fact, since it is not.

... REALLY annoy a Fundie: INSIST on the truth!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   ED DUTKIEWICZ
|Sub:  flood
|Date: 15 Jan 96  17:31:00
EID:1c7e 202f8be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ed Dutkiewicz to Maria Russell <=-

DH> Always have been. Some of those floods have covered some
DH> pretty big  territory. Evidence of a single world-wide deluge
DH> simply does NOT exist.  

ED> Oh, okay I get it. You two are talking about the end of the
ED> Ice Age.

Which one of the many "The" ice ages do you think "The Flood"
might have occurd?

... History is the refutation of the "moral world order." - Nietzsche
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   FREDRIC RICE
|Sub:  Cartoon in USA Today
|Date: 15 Jan 96  17:40:00
EID:1b07 202f8d00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to All <=-

FR> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
FR> USA Today, January 5'th, 1996, page 14A, section "News Toons"
FR> There's a drawing of two guys on a golf course, one hairy guy
FR> holding a huge golf bag looking down at the other guy who's
FR> on his knees looking into the 18'th golf hole.  The guy on the
FR> ground has his face pressed to the ground so we can't see who
FR> it is.  He has a golf club in his right hand laying on the ground.
FR> The guy on the ground says:
FR> "No sign of him on eighteen, Kato, let's check the clubhouse."
FR> The caption on the bottom of the drawing says:
FR> "The search for the real killer continues."
FR> It was done by Jim Borgman of the Cincinnati Enquirer.

/Smirk/

I was at a picket of O.J. while he was at the golf course in
Dana Point. Well, we weren't actually picketing O.J.--- it was
a protest against domestic violence, with O.J. as the posterboy.
I'll let you know when the next one is held.

... "Wait a minute. Those boots. That leather. Those legs. Xena!" -- Samon
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JESSE JONES
|Sub:  Christmas
|Date: 15 Jan 96  18:10:00
EID:03fa 202f9140
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to David Rice <=-
> Quoting DAVID RICE to JESSE JONES on 01-03-96

>>JJ> I have enjoyed watching you all scurry for cover.

>>JJ> [Jesse's special pleading deleted--- dr]

>DR> As usual you are full of your own waste matter. In your 
>DR> freaky missive, mercifully deleted here, you go on and
>DR> on and on and on and on about "we" this and "we" that.
>DR> Your communist mentality is at best tiresome---- try
>DR> using "I" instead when you spew your opinions, and leave
>DR> the uninfected out of your delusions. Thanks.

JJ> Sorry to pierce your delusion of self-sufficiency, David,

Er, your being able to discourse with me on any subject under 
the sun would be a most astonishing feat, as it would require 
you to have a functing cerebral cortex: you don't qualify.

I assume you have some evidence that I have claimed "self- 
sufficiency," eh? By all means produce it. Thanks. Pardon me 
if I fail to see how you could "pierce" a "delusion" I do not 
have.

(While you're at it, when are you going to produce some 
evidence that your gods exist?)

JJ> but alas,  we are all in this together.

I am in no way a party to your hallucinations and delusions 
of megalomanic masochism, Comrade Jones. If you wish to 
believe freaky nonsense about how your vindictive, evil, 
dysfuntional alpha male primate daddy in heaven is going to 
punish you, by all means feel free to do so: just don't be
surprised when people laugh at you.


... A virgin girl who is raped must marry her rapist. Deut. 22:28-29
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   Christian Miller
|Sub:  Re: Gods, not god
|Date: 12 Jan 96  17:05:00
EID:35e0 202c88a0
MSGID: 1:262/20 30F6DBFD
:: From: Christian Miller  To: Gwenny The Pooh Subj: Re: Gods, not god ::
Gt> I worship the Earth.  She exists and all we have comes from Her.
CM> 
CM> Show your intelligence again, please.  It's not very smart to worship
CM> a rock.

At least the Earth has been shown to exist, whereas YHWH has not.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ "Let me run this past you once real slow." - Shai-ster
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   Asmodeus
|Sub:  Re: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 13 Jan 96  12:41:34
EID:2aab 202d6520
MSGID: 1:262/20 30F7F856
:: From: Asmodeus  To: Preston Simpson Subj: Re: White-lighter Religions
::
P> You do not strike me as such. You come across as a young, inexperienced
P> person who while possibly intelligent has gotten hung up on the first
P> thing that came along and followed it slavishly without learning to
P> explore things critically. In other words, you're like many other people
P> your age.

As> It is too bad that teenagers are stereotyped as such.  I have never
As> been the 'normal' teenager, I have looked at things with a more serious
As> scrutiny and have analyzed greatly.  If i took the first thing that
As> came along I would still be calling myself a Christian.
As> I might appear as an immature, incompetent, head in the clouds
As> teenager to you but I am not, by a long shot.

"I'm not a duck! I'm not a duck!" the billed avian quacked. The reason you

appear as a immature, incompetent etc. is because that is the picture your

posts have painted. This doesn't mean you _are_, of course; You haven't
stuck 
around long enough for us to be sure. I myself am holding off on any opinion

of my own for a while. Hell, I thought Fred Rice was an asshole when I first

started reading Holy Smoke. Now, I know Fred IS an asshole, but he usually
has 
a good point to boot.

On another subject, I found an interesting discrepency in what you profess
to 
be your beliefs. You say you believe in logic, yet you also say you believe
in 
"eye for a limb, tooth for a head", which is not at all a logical postion
to 
take. Would you care to explain this?
... "An eye for an eye" only ends up making the whole world blind.
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   James Bethell
|Sub:  John Prewett justifies murder
|Date: 13 Jan 96  12:41:35
EID:0431 202d6520
MSGID: 1:262/20 30F7F857
:: From: James Bethell  To: Fredric Rice Subj: John Prewett justifies murder
::

JB> Here's some food for thought: In an insane world, the sane would be
JB> considered insane. 

But in a insane world, the insane *ARE* sane.

(Love those mind-twisters...)
... "Wow!  You guys are really sick and twisted!"  "Thank you!"
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: Why
|Date: 13 Jan 96  12:41:35
EID:f3d8 202d6520
MSGID: 1:262/20 30F7F858
:: From: Charles Rollins  To: Fredric Rice Subj: Re: Why ::
FR> Only because no cultist is capable of actually defending their
FR> occultism in this forum.  One must go to a fellow cultist forum to
FR> have a chance at retaining any hope of belief.  This forum is for
FR> educated people, after all, not cultists.

CR> You mean educated fools and airheads who are not even educated enough
CR> to have an expanded libraray of vocabulary to choose the right words
CR> instead of resorting to the profanity of uneducated beings.  Another
CR> name is airheads.

Why should any word be considered the province of the "uneducated"? Is a
word
going to crawl through the phone line and bite you on the ass? Just because

_you_ do not like a word doesn't mean we feel the same. Certainly, I refrain

from throwing in a "fuck" just to do so, but if the word is justified, I
will 
use it; IE: Using "ass" as a synonym for buttocks, or "shit" as a synonym
for 
feces. 
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ No facts are sacred, none are profane.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Conference
|Date: 14 Jan 96  14:29:09
EID:4352 202e73a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG
à:: From: Fredric Rice  To: Steve Rose Subj: Conference ::
sr> Not true.  Religionoid garbage is disclaimed on this echo all the time!

FR> This is the BEST moderated forum I've ever subscribed to in the past
FR> 10 years or so.  Moderator doesn't selectively enforce rules to meet
FR> with an agenda -- unlike cult forums.

Beside, that's why they are called *guidelines*, not rules. As long as it's

interesting, I've seen few people complain about anything posted in HolySmoke.

Take Scot Bear' recent recipe posting and your not-as-recent post about

India, for example. Both pretty interesting, but what either of them have
to 
do with religion is beyond me. (Well, Scot's recipe _was_ for Noodles...)
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ "We're out of ammo for the catapults!" - "Use garbage."
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
---
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  HolySmoke Central Committee Announce
|Date: 14 Jan 96  14:29:11
EID:299b 202e73a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG
:: From: Fredric Rice  To: All Subj: HolySmoke Central Committee Announcement
::
FR> The HolySmoke Central Committee plans to gather-up all the heathens
FR> (and any fundies we can trick into participating)   who
FR> have Internet access to create some more painful on-line blasphemy
FR> specifically designed to do heaping gobs of incalcuable damage!

...makes me wish I had full Internet access...
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ "Its dangerous and painful, but don't worry." -- Joel
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
---
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  2 SO, WHY GOD?
|Date: 14 Jan 96  15:19:00
EID:a926 202e7a60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E19
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  17:25, Jim Staal got back to George Rudzinski 

Is this Jim Milk Crate or Brudder Jimbo?  

GR> Why in front of you?  Are you threatening physical violence against
GR> his person because he stood up and called you a poltroon?

JS> Well, hello, george. No, I am merely making a statement to prove I
JS> _am_ no poltroon.

I see you haven't gotten the grammar correct, yet again, Jimmy.  
It's a cinch that I'm not responding to the 'English Major'.  

... "I'd be 'Erudite' if I knew what the fuck it meant..."  Jim Staaled
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  
|Date: 14 Jan 96  15:26:00
EID:d6f1 202e7b40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  17:24, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa 

Is this the Fundy Staal replying, or his smarter idiot brother?  


DC> The rubbish you refer to was written by Hillel.

JS> Sounds like a mere man to me...

And a lot more erudite than your god, Jimmy.  


DC> But you, as an
DC> 'excellent debater'

JS> I take no bows for this...

Yet, you act as the goalie for the dart team.  Wear a face mask 
the next time.  


DC> and 'English Major',
JS> You are correct, sir...

Your lack of even a modicum of prowess in it does you in, Jimbo.  

DC> never got around to reading about that did you.

JS> Any reason I would? Is it the Bible? No. Does it reek of heretical
JS> material? Yes.

It is in your bible, you cretin.  You just can't read it as 
your blindness prevents you from seeing it.  Take the beam out 
of your eye, as well as that log on your shoulder.  

... Jimmy Swaggart doll:  It plays with itself as it watches you play.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  ARK
|Date: 14 Jan 96  17:05:00
EID:09b5 202e88a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  07:10, Judith Bandsma got back to J.j. Hitt 

JB> Considering that there was at least one sub during the Civil War, I

JB> Geez, the things you forget. This is one thing I SHOULD remember, as
JB> subs were the subject of a 34 page paper I did in school for a history
JB> class (complete with drawings)

Did you include the _Turtle_?  I think it was designed by 
Erickson, but he may be of Civil War vintage.  For some reason, I 
remember that being of Revolutionary War...  

Not much of a boat, more along the lines of a submerged beer keg.  
It was propelled by hand driven screws, and used a similar screw 
to attempt to drill holes in the hull of the ememy vessels.    	


... "Data, that is quite enough background!"--Piccard
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Bunk!
|Date: 14 Jan 96  01:00:00
EID:a3dc 202e0800
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  17:30, Jim Staal got back to Luke Clark 

JS> I see...so it is nothing personal then?

That's hard to tell..   Just which Staal are you?  

... Unlike Jim, the 3 Stooges were intentionally stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 14 Jan 96  01:14:00
EID:2bb6 202e09c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-12-96  17:56, Karl Schneider got back to David Worrell 

DW>I'm starting to think Staal is a troll.  Doesn't he ever *read* that

KS> He was doing 1 of 2 things...making a big fucking production of
KS> a typo or trying to unpaint himself out of the corner.

KS> Either way, he's just another asshole...

That's true, but it's much more fun to help add to the wet paint!  

... Flu in Jerusalem = wheezes of Nazareth!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   All
|Sub:  FAQ time!!!!
|Date: 14 Jan 96  01:21:00
EID:21a1 202e0aa0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  09:23, Hector Plasmic got back to Maria Russell 

MR> God was visible during the OT because there wasn't the written form
of
MR> the OT. And there is now.

HP> ROFL!  Oh, so if you _write_ about a god it hides?

Works for her, Hector!  She's still trying to understand English!  

(Must be getting lessons fron Staal!) 

... It's a fool's errand, which is why we asked you to attempt it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Country livin'...
|Date: 14 Jan 96  01:39:00
EID:12f8 202e0ce0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E1F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-12-96  01:45, Jim Staal got back to Kenneth Mcabee 

Is this the Singing Staal?  If so, get a voice teacher..  

JS> My area is right on the fringe of 'country'. 

Your intelligence is not even close to being on the edge 
of sentience.  

... Unlike Jim, the 3 Stooges were intentionally stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: Cussing
|Date: 14 Jan 96  01:51:00
EID:fbfb 202e0e60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E20
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  11:53, Charles Rollins got back to David Hilling 

DH> ######## ###   ###  ####### ###  ###
DH> ######## ###   ### ######## ### ####
DH> ######   ###   ### ###      #######
DH> ######   ###   ### ###      #######
DH> ###       ########  ####### ###  ###
DH> ##        ######    ######  ##   ##
DH> ###   ###  #######  ###   ###
DH> ### #### ######### ###   ###
DH> ######  ###   ### ###   ###
DH> ####   ###   ### ###   ###
DH> ###     ########  ######## ###
DH> ##      ######    ######   ##

CR> You are just proving to all how limited your intelligence is.  Yeah,

I see that you actually learned to quote.  Now, figure out how to 
handle the ASCII.  

CR> I'm convinced: you are really ignorant of an expanded vocabulary..I

Strange, your are limited by your religion from expanding yours 
to include those words.  Too bad you don't have any fucking 
free will, fundy.  

CR> thought you all were just putting me on but you are really serious
CR> about not knowing how to talk like an intelligent adult..

Couldn't happen, in any conversation with you.  

CR> brain damage..you are really showing that WV is full of ignorant,
CR> hillbilly rednecks but what else is new.

Your posts do the best to make your statement appear to belie 
your stance.  Tough shit, hillbilly.  

CR> language on WV_TALKS because you will be kicked off because profanity
CR> over the fidonet is against the rules of ALL echos.

Really, shit-for-brains?  Your backwater mentality is making 
an ass out of you.  

... New movie by Woody Allen; "Honey I Fucked the kids."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Kris Okelly
|Sub:  Greetings
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:17:00
EID:e6c1 202e1220
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E21
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  12:15, Kris Okelly got back to Glen Zilly 

KO> Thanks for the message!! well don't worry I take none of this stuff
KO> hard! :-)

Do you take it orally, then?  

... Quickie Lubes in Jerusalem =  Greasers of Nazareth!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: Hey
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:23:00
EID:9e33 202e12e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E22
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  14:31, Charles Rollins got back to Martin Goldberg 

CR> that you all here are a slave to sin because you cannot quit profanity,
CR> you don't have it within you to quit do you.  Yeah, real intelligent.

Your are here becaus you are a slave to your enslaving religion.  
As your hold to that religion, you can't be very intelligent.  

After all, your posts show that lack of sentience.  


... Theological is not.  Political correctness isn't.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Lon S. Mabon
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:30:00
EID:3154 202e13c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E23
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  18:15, Lon S. Mabon got back to Dan Ceppa 

So, are you a Staal, or somthing far more brain-dead?  


LSM> Satan was at one time an arch angel, I believe. Angels are defined
in
DC> And, a little ol' archangel is stronger than the god that created him!

LSM> No.

Provide the evidence, fundy.  

You clain your fucking god is stronger than his Satan.  Now, 
put up, or shove it.  

... "Dear Lon:  I TOLD you to shut up and listen!  --God"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Lon S. Mabon
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:34:00
EID:3154 202e1440
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E24
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  18:17, Lon S. Mabon got back to Dan Ceppa 

Your reading comprehension is at an all-time Staal low...  

LSM> Where in the Bible does it say God is 'omnibenevolent'? The Bible
LSM> clearly says the opposite:

DC> Read just what you wrote above, you consummate moron.  You state
DC> the the bible "clearly says the opposite" to 'omnibenevolent'.

LSM> No, I said the Bible says the opposite. Not that He is the opposite.

And, Doofus, the opposite of your stupid claim has been pointed out 
to you.  Stop using your head to store memos and use it for thinking.  
You have heard of the concept, haven't you?  

LSM> The Bible says God is selective in His benevolency.

Making the fucking pervert not fully benevolent, doesn't it.  

Must make you proud to worship a bastard like the one that you 
bend over for.  

... "Eat shit. 10 billion flies can't be wrong."  Brian Syme
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:37:00
EID:03ce 202e14a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E25
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  18:17, Lon S. Mabon got back to Martin Goldberg 

MG> Do you also believe the first thing that a used car salesman tells
MG> you?

LSM> No.

Ask the cretin if he has a brain.  That last response to you 
was not only a stock answer, but the only one he can proffer.

... "Oh, bother"' said Pooh as Christopher Robin bought a pack of Trojans.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Lump
|Sub:  Re: Homosexual Christians
|Date: 14 Jan 96  02:47:00
EID:e24a 202e15e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E26
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-11-96  14:41, Lump got back to Dan Ceppa 

Which shit head Staal are you?  

Lu> ..."Proble"?....."atempts"?......Your school system must've been
Lu> grand....

I expect that your brother fucks you in the ass every night.  

... I am Peter Popoff of Borg. Prepare to reach God at 37.15 megahertz.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Preston's temper tantrum.
|Date: 14 Jan 96  03:16:00
EID:b91f 202e1a00
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E27
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-12-96  01:43, Jim Staal got back to Preston Simpson 

Which sex crazed Staal are you?  

PS> prostitute masturbate? The same "right honorable" guy who is such a
PS> farce that he damages the cause of Christianity more than he helps it?

JS> Ahh...sure pushed the right buttons with that one, didn't I...

Get your hands out of your pants, Jimbo.  The only buttons your 
hav ever pushed are your own.  

... Don't let school interfere with your education.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Rattle...
|Date: 14 Jan 96  03:20:00
EID:53fa 202e1a80
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E28
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-12-96  01:43, Jim Staal got back to Preston Simpson 

Which idiot Staal are you?  

PS> Y'think Jesus is happy with your behavior?

JS> Oh...feigning ignorance is a sin, is it?  

In your case, you make it a requirement for saint-hood, 
you benighted fool.  

... Fundy Twister: "Right foot red. Left foot green.  Both hands nailed."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Thanks for response!
|Date: 14 Jan 96  03:43:00
EID:d434 202e1d60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E29
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  01:41, David Worrell got back to Lynda Bustilloz 

LB> Just to jog your memory (deleted your CD driver, hmmph!  Maybe YOU
LB> should take up cooking. hehe)

DW> You've never actually eaten my cooking, have you?

Did you ever get your cookies?  Lynda and Judith said that 
they would send you a bit batch!  

... Send Barney to Dr. Kevorkian for a check-up.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   J.j. Hitt
|Sub:  Tolerance
|Date: 14 Jan 96  03:55:00
EID:f954 202e1ee0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-14-96  02:04, J.j. Hitt got back to Bethann 

B> her!  If you want me to read for you, make arrangements to 
B> come over and I'll pull out my cards.

JH> You can't "read" at a distance?

JH> Is it because your "reading" depends on visual cues from your
JH> victim to tell you if you are guessing correctly?

Gee, Jj, you sound like a skeptic.  Perhaps I should read 
the Tarot card for you, only in your presence, of course, 
as the cards need you to be there to make them work...  :)  

... The Law firm of Dewy, Screwem and Howe.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Josh Talbot
|Sub:  Why
|Date: 14 Jan 96  04:17:00
EID:35e4 202e2220
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-10-96  22:28, Josh Talbot got back to Robert Jackson 

RJ> Ecrasez l'infame!
JT> If I wasn't failing french I would probaly under stand that

Just turn the burner to "High" and stand back...  

... Jewish Israeli Princess in Jerusalem = "Please us!!!!!" of Nazareth!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula.  (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Charles Rollins
|Sub:  Re: Why
|Date: 14 Jan 96  04:19:00
EID:c806 202e2260
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  22:20, Charles Rollins got back to David Worrell 

DW> Maybe you could explain why "damn" is profane?

CR> You act like you are so intelligent you should know. If you don't then
CR> you are more stupid than you look.

Please provide the FIDO protocol that provides visual interaction, 
dipshit.  

... Born-Again nonsense detected. (D)elete (S)ave (L)augh?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Excrement!
|Date: 14 Jan 96  14:03:00
EID:6cfc 202e7060
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-12-96  01:44, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Now, just which Staal is it that's recieving this message?

JS> the one it is addressed to, of course...

Which is which Staal?  There are just so many personalities that 
you have, Jimbo.  The only thing in common to them is their 
total lack of intlligence.  


DC> milk crate and pound your chest like some miscreant buffoon?

JS> Not any room for strutting on a milkcrate, Dan.  'miscreant' part.>

It modifies the noun, "buffon", quite accurately in the 
description of you.  

JS> Funny thing, I never see a word before in my life, one monkey here

Yet, that sure is funny, 'English Major'.  

JS> all of a sudden it is all over the place. Hee hee-ee. Maroons! Same
JS> thing happened with 'misogynist'...

Still another word that describes you all too well.  

... Unlike Jim, the 3 Stooges were intentionally stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  HUCKSTERS
|Date: 14 Jan 96  14:08:00
EID:1d93 202e7100
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-13-96  06:21, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa 

JB> Leo rented 'Roxanne' one time. I tried to watch it, really I did. But
JB> there is just something about Steve Martin that hits me about the same

Hmmm, surprised you didn't like that one...  

JB> Tried again with the one he did with Lily Tomlin (I really like her),
JB> same reaction.

I didn't like that one.  

JB> Then again, maybe it's the fact that most people around here who like
JB> Steve Martin also think Barry Manilow is a great musician. 

Barry who?  


... Pray for Jim Staal (see Psalm 137:9)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Linda Whitten
|Sub:  Re: Jealous God
|Date: 14 Jan 96  14:11:00
EID:3af6 202e7160
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89060E2F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0416
-> On 01-09-96  02:39, Linda Whitten got back to Dan Ceppa 

JJ> Dan, I think you should know that Steve Quarella is posting 
JJ> messages using your name, to try to make you look stupid.

LW> I say we form a posse and ..... well, do what has to be done! 

I think I have a tagline that works for that imagry!  

DC> ... MACARONI NETWORK: Oodles of noodles for Jesus!

LW> Great Tagline!  Consider it adopted.

I think I stole that one from Scot Bear.  One of these days, I'm 
going to have to re-edit my files and make that part of the +Origin 
group.  


... How do you get a lawyer out of a tree? Cut the rope.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  It only hurts when I Spong.
|Date: 14 Jan 96  22:48:20
EID:2da6 202eb600
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 f9cab92
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 60826fe4
Hello J.J.!

J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to AL SCHROEDER:

JJH>  But we know of at least one very obvious example of a
JJH> fusion   between the tribal ethno-centric religion of the
JJH> Jews and the  more cosmopolitan world outlook of the Greeks
JJH> and Romans.

JJH>  It's called Christianity.

JJH>  And in modern times we have the observance of Hanukkah. The
JJH>  history of it's observance as a major holiday happens to
JJH> coincide  with the time when Dickens and the retailers made
JJH> Christmas  into a Mighty Big Deal. Also, you will find it
JJH> being either a   minor observance or not observed at all in
JJH> those parts of
JJH>  the world where the Eastern Orthodox callendar is used and
JJH>  Christmas is celebrated somewhat later in the year.

Not too sure you are right there. My father-in-law spent his
childhood in Zarist Russia, and his family sure pulled all stops
out at Hanukkah - special foods, special songs, special family
entertainments [mainly involving a bit of gambing by spinning a
brass 'top' inscribed with 'nes gadol haya sham' = 'there was a
great miracle'], lighting of the hanukkia [the special candelabra]
- in short exactly the same customs as most other Jews are maintaining.
And we do have old stiff faded photos from the 90s to prove the
point. Russki or not - they seemed to conform to what Germans,
Poles, Danes, and Greeks of the Jewish religion were doing.

... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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PATH: 7107/21 9 270/101 218/801

|From: Steve Hayes
|To:   All
|Sub:  Objectivism
|Date: 16 Jan 96  00:00:16
EID:d1d5 20300000
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 30fb86a2
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
I've occasionally had discussions with fans of Ayn Rand, but they
usually sound very similar to Scientologists, not in what they say,
but in the way they say it. If not a religion, it at least seems to
be a cult, or on its way to becoming one.

So I was interested to find the following in Margot Adler's "Drawing
down the moon", which is basically a description of neo-pagan religions,
mainly Wicca.

The Church of All Worlds.

"The Church of All Worlds has been called everything from 'a
sub-culture science-fiction Grok-flock' to 'a bunch of crazy hippie
freaks.' But the real origins of CAW lead back to a small group of
friends who, along with untold numbers of middle-class high school
and college students in the late 1950s and early 1960s, became
infatuated with the romantic, heroic, compelling right-wing ideas of
Ayn Rand. It is a sign of the peculiarity of North American
consciousness that thousands of young students, at one time or
another, have become possessed by her novels - Atlas shrugged, The
Fountainhead, and Anthem. Jerome Tucille, in his witty,
tongue-in-cheek tour of the libertarian right, 'It usually beings
with Ayn Rand', could not have been more precise in his choice of
title. He noted that Rand's works were particularly appealing 'to
those in the process of escaping a regimented religious background.'
Despite the author's rigid philosophy of Objectivism, she stirred a
libertarian impusle, and 'Atlas shrugged' became a 'New Marxism of
the Right'."
Source: Adler 1979:269.
Objectivism and ecology.

"The novels of Ayn Rand were seeds that sprouted and have many
strange fruits, most of which must have horrified her. CAW  is an example. It is a religion, and Rand has
consistently been intensely atheist. It has long considered ecology
the supreme religious activity and study, and the harmony of human
beings in the biosphere the goal of highest priority. Ayn Rand, on
the other hand, has praised pollution as a sign of human progress.
Her heroines have wept with joy at billboards and saluted
smokestacks, regarding them as a sign of the human struggle against
nature. She calls people concerned about ecology 'antilife' and
'antimind', and condemns Native Americans as 'savages'. She has even
called smoking cigarettes a moral duty that aids the capitalist
system."
Source: Adler 1979:270.

Any comments?




... 66(B)+73(I)+76(L)+76(L)+71(G)+65(A)+84(T)+69(E)+83(S)+3(rd) = 666
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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PATH: 7107/9 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  BUS CRASH
|Date: 16 Jan 96  03:08:29
EID:5881 20301900
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd0
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890510D5
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dick and Dan were killing time yakking about BUS CRASH:

JH> Fergivness?
JH> Did you learn to spell by watching "Hee Haw"?

DH> What have you got against Hee Haw?

DC> Buck Owens...  

What have you got against chapped lips?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "The film on this lake is better than the film we're watching!"

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Sean McCullough
|Sub:  CHRISTMAS
|Date: 16 Jan 96  03:10:20
EID:7abf 20301940
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd1
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 0695b887
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Gwenny and Sean were killing time yakking about CHRISTMAS:

SM> #ifndef "Judith Bandsma"
SM> {#include Judith Bandsma}
SM> #endif

SM> #ifndef "Gwenny the Pooh"
SM> {#include Gwenny the Pooh}
SM> #endif

Is this one of them thar wiccan spells, Sean??



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Batteries not included

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Andrew Masten
|Sub:  VIRGIN
|Date: 16 Jan 96  03:27:40
EID:5d3d 20301b60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd2
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 30f9c69d
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dan and Andrew were killing time yakking about VIRGIN:

AM> Three hundred years ago modern scientist postulated that the
AM> Earth was supported on the back of a giant turtle. The Bible in Job

DC> Sure they did.  Name one of those scientists.  

AM> Just look at any book on the history of science and you'll see
AM> a graphic displaying the Earth being supported on the back of a
AM> tortoise. 

Correct -- but not from 300 years ago, and not proposed by "modern
scientists".



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Road Kill Cafe - Today's Special: Rigor Mortis Tortoise

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Robert Jackson
|Sub:  flood
|Date: 16 Jan 96  05:00:10
EID:28e4 20302800
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd3
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30f9ee7f
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Preston and Robert were killing time yakking about flood:

MB> in one place and a pair of each animal, how did all these
MB> different flood myths come about? It seems to me that if the flood

PS> A good question. She'll probably say that it was the result of the
PS> Tower of Babel incident after the flood.

RJ> God wanted, since the beginning of the creation of mankind,
RJ> for mankind to be with him.  So, some Nimrod decides he's
RJ> gonna build his little stairway to Heaven so he can be with
RJ> God--and what does the old Guy in the Sky do?  Fucks up

I just read the COOLEST thing -- and it finally explains to me where some
bozos
get that we aren't supposed to be stargazing!

It seems that the Tower of Babel (that is, Babylon) just may have been real.
See, the Babylonians were really big on having to know where the stars and
planets were located as a part of their religion.  Apparently, the Tower
of
Babel may well have been a giant OBSERVATORY.

From there, it makes perfect sense that the enemies of the Babylonians might
have come up with a tale of God "punishing" the world for their "arrogance"
in trying to get closer to the heavens (which, in a sense, is exactly what
one is doing with an observatory), and even trying to SPEAK to the gods
--
and since they were trying to read the will of the gods via the stars, that
is ALSO what they were doing.

Oddly enough, of all the major cultures of the ancients, the worst, as far
as
astronomical legacies go, is the Jewish culture.  They knew next to nothing
about what was going on over their heads, and because they had such strong
taboos about assimilating their neighbor's cultures, they didn't learn much
from them about it.  Since most cultures, including Christiandom, explored
astronomy primarily from a standpoint of how it affected their understanding
of religious principles, it stands to reason that the Jewish culture looks
on astronomy itself with suspicion.


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A virtuous life is its own punishment.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  forgiveness available
|Date: 16 Jan 96  05:13:53
EID:7f12 203029a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd4
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 30f94cf2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marty and Jim were killing time yakking about forgiveness available:

JS> Nah...I was at the local large Schuler's Books tonight
JS> and...heesh...what a bunch of geeks and dweebs! Losers! Especially in
JS> and around the metaphysics section. Guffaw!

ML> I see you added to the biomass.

JS> Huh!?

ML> See?

JS> What!?

*giggle*
So, uh, who's on first?



Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Gee, Brain, what are we gonna do tonight?" -- Pinky

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  hissy-fit
|Date: 16 Jan 96  05:23:33
EID:095b 20302ae0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd5
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 890447AD
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about hissy-fit:

MR> Only PROVES that there are still charlatans in the world and YOU are
MR> part of it. The revival I assisted in didn't have the trappings you
MR> showed. OURs were sincere!!!! You are a total mockery!!!! And you
MR> accuse Christians of behaving contrary to what they  "preach". Can you
MR> say HYPOCRISY? Can you say THIEF? Can you say LIAR? Can you say
MR> APOSTASY?

LB> Can you say HISSY-FIT??!

MH> Maria makes a good point, in her ... er ... unique way. The kind of

Sure -- except that it was to confirm the point that Judith was making in
the
first place.  This all started when Maria INSISTED that revivals were always
on the level.  Further conversation ilicited that she KNEW the revivals
she
went to were sincere, because they didn't "ask" for money -- the folks just
gave them money because they needed it.  At that point, Judith -- who had
been
attempting to make clear to her that SHAM revivals LOOK sincere on purpose,
clued her in to the details, and it's pretty obvious those details sounded
familiar enough for her to -- well, to have a hissy-fit (can't come up with
a better term for it).  This is the result of her discovering that something
that she was being quite smug in assuming was real *maybe* isn't.
Frankly, she'll be the wiser for it next time she goes to a revival and
doesn't assume that everyone who tosses out the name "Jesus" should be
followed without question.  And if she still gives to someone in need, it'll
be a more sacrificial act if she does it without thinking she is absolutely
knowledgable about whether or not they merit it -- once we think we are
utterly
equipped to make that sort of judgement, we often find more ways to excuse
NOT giving than we do in giving -- a little uncertainty is a good humbling
experience.

MH> charlanatism that Judith was involved in *does* damage Christianity's
MH> reputation in the eyes of the world. It gives our critics even more
MH> people to point at and say "See, Christians are hypocrites or fools."

No one here who read Judith's account should come to that conclusion unless
they have a reading comprehension problem, as Judith made it plain that
she
WASN'T a Christian.

MH> I know this is part of Judith's past and something she wouldn't do
MH> again. But I don't think Maria's response is entirely off-base,

No, her response is quite understandable.  It's how most of us react when
a
cherished delusion is shattered.  And to make myself clear -- the delusion
was
not in thinking that there are NO sincere travelling evangelists (there
are),
but in assuming that EVERY travelling evangelist is as they represent
themselves.  I'll bet Maria's pretty sharp at picking out good tomatoes
in
the grocery store -- but she seems to be a bit blind when it comes to picking
out religious instructors.  If this makes her a bit more cagey the next
time
someone comes along, I don't think that's a bad thing.

MH> although I'd prefer a little less vitriol. Judith's con-game WAS a
MH> "total mockery" of genuine evangelism. And it WAS hypocrisy, thievery
MH> and lying -- con games are that by definition.

You'll have to show me where you see "thievery" -- they preached, they recieved
money.  I can't see where they didn't earn that money through effort, just
because they didn't believe what they said.  If that's the case than a good
percentage of pastors and elders and layreaders are also con artists.
Judith made a very good point -- there are probably people out there right
now
who owe their salvation to one of Judith's revivals.  Would one of those
people
say that she stole from them?  Upon learning that is was just a living rather
than a calling, would they hate her for it, or would they remember her in
their prayers? (Yeah, I know -- it depends on the person -- but what would
a
"good" Christian do?)  Salvation comes from God, not any person, so if the
conduit is a nonbeliever, does that lessen the salvation?

MH> Why mock Maria for saying so?

Calling a hissy-fit a hissy-fit is not mocking Maria, but her behaviour.
Hopefully, it'll act as a dowse of cold water, and get her to calm down
and
think about it a little.  If she gets no farther than spitting on Judith,
she's gained nothing.  If she goes far enough to start being "wise as a
serpent" when it comes to those around her, and to practice a little bit
of
humility regarding what she "knows",  then one day SHE might even thank
God
for her encounter with Judith.  She learned a very important lesson
here, and I hope she doesn't waste it.




Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Be as good at receiving as you are at giving.

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  love
|Date: 16 Jan 96  05:53:59
EID:3ae4 20302ea0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd6
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 890447A2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about love:

LB> Well, if you had to walk around in a metallic bra, you'd call it tight
LB> with a capital T, too!

MH> Hey, leave my private life out of this, OK? :-)

LB> OOOOOHHHHH??????!!!
LB> heh- I don't even know what you look like, and that's STILL a
LB> hysterical image!

MH> Shall I send you a picture? I'll polish the bra! ;)

Bu ALL means!  I warn you, though -- if I actually get a picture of you
in
a highly polished metallic bra, the temptation to publish it far and wide
will be unavoidable!

(Make Scot happy, and include blood red lipstick....and a bowl of noodles)
;)


Lynda Bustilloz      bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "I can resist anything but temptation."

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/400 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809
SEEN-BY: 218/907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801

|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To:   Michael Hardy
|Sub:  religion in schools
|Date: 16 Jan 96  06:03:00
EID:f9e8 20303060
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 30fb9dd7
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 890447B4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about religion in schools:

MR> But evolution is part of the religion of humanism...which IS being
MR> taught.

LB> "Religious humanism" is an invention of the Christian fundamentalists,
LB> to try to drag science over into the religious arena, since they cannot
LB> firmly plant religion in the scientific arena.

MH> While there is no formal religion built around humanism, it is true
MH> that certain Naturalistic assumptions underlie ideas like
MH> non-theistic evolution. Many social and psychological ideas also
MH> assume Naturalism. It does add up, incrementally, to a worldview
MH> antithetical to religion, whether it's deliberate or not.

"Antithetical to religion" doesn't make it a religion.  Maria mentions the
"religion of humanism" -- ain't no such critter.

Certainly ANY POV has religious ramifications -- but that doesn't make it
a
religion itself.  Every scientific discovery must be dealt with by religion.
Either objectively -- willing to accept that some of the dogma of religion
doesn't square with science, or by burying one's head in the sand and
pronouncing science an opposing religious view, so that it can be discounted.
Did you know that Kepler came to the brink of figuring out gravity a full
two generation earlier than Newton did, and rejected it because he COULD
NOT
bring himself to operate from the stance that just maybe we were not the
center of the universe -- so instead he wasted years working out a brilliant
image of the universe that was dead wrong, so as to satisfy what religious
dogma told him MUST be right.  Galileo was silenced by the church for proposing
the same thing -- the Church was more interested in being RIGHT than it
was
in acknowledging the truth.  In another post, you asked someone for evidenc