God Damned Fundies!
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 28 Dec 96 15:48:38
EID:78d7 219c7e00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72d2c2d6
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e432
AS> I may be handicapped because I live in the South, Marty, where
AS> traditionally prejudice has convicted people who are more guilty
AS> of their ethnic origin than their actual crimes. There are
AS> some people (child molestors come high on the list) where I
AS> might agree capital publishment MIGHT be a good idea, but
AS> I'm too often conscious that juries can, alas make mistakes.
This is why there must be absolutely no question in our minds when convictions
are handed down. Do we let someone die in prison and then find out that
they were innocent, or perhaps spend 30 years behind bars in a hell worse
than death and then let them go due to some error in evidence that allowed
them to be wrongfully convicted?
Sorry. I've sat on two juries in criminal cases. One guy was brought in
for rape, robbery, and murder. It was brought out in the trial that he
was "known to the police". Know what? I say just off the sumbitch and
the world will be ahppeir place. So what if they didn't show thta he murdered
someone this time? After being brought in four other times for drug sales
to kids and twice for burglary I say get hi the hell out of town. Society
has no use for bastards like this.
MG>> Last year, a kid in a wheelchair, on a dare, smuggled his
MG>> mother's broken coke bottle into a school....
MG>> How is this different from what you typed above.
AS> Because one can often dodge a broken glass bottle. It's harder
AS> to dodge a bullet.
But your case rest ont he fact that a gun MIGHT kill someone. Such is true
of a coke bottle no matter how scarce it might be. Anything can be used
as a weapon, so we should get rid of everyhing.
Hell, of course not. The answer is simple. Get rid of the sob's that do
these things. Getting rid of guns is not the answer.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: David Rice
|Sub: latest martinez disas
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:08
EID:ace8 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a0225
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>>DR> Perhaps someone without any code of ethics will consent
>>DR> to inject HIV-contaminated blood into Martinez and see
>>DR> if the stupid shit will accept the risk. Put his life
>>DR> where his mouth is.
CJ>> During his stint in the SCIENCE echo, he claimed he was
CJ>> going to do just that--but then waffled on just when he'd
CJ>> be doing his public relations stunt, and how it would be
CJ>> verified that the blood did indeed contain HIV and that
CJ>> he himself was HIV-free.
DR> Then he must not actually believe the crap he is spewing.
Or--perhaps he knows that he could not certify himself as
HIV-free? And the entire farrago is an elaborate denial of a
looming fate?
... To become moderator, how many neutrons did you absorb?
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: David Rice
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:09
EID:ccfc 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a029c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 26 Dec 96 03:56pm, DAVID RICE wrote to J.J. HITT:
JH>> contrary to nature. 14:17 To which Salome replied,
JH>> As the Lord my God liveth, unless I receive
JH>> particular proof of this matter, I will not believe
JH>> that a virgin hath brought forth. 14:18 Then Salome
JH>> went in, and the midwife said, Mary, shew thyself
JH>> for a great controversy is risen concerning thee.
JH>> 14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
DR> ROTFL! Must have been before the actual birth, if
DR> she still appeared "virgin."
Yep. King Fetus withered her arm up for sticking her
finger too close to him.
But as far as after the actual birth: this actually was a
subject of debate. How could Jesus slide down the chute without
popping Mary's cherry? The answer was:
He _teleported_ past Mary's cherry!
DR> Sheeeish. Some stupid Greek, 1800 years ago, fucks
DR> up with a translation and thus makes a pregnant
DR> girl / woman sexually pure, and along comes some
DR> stupidassed Christians to write testimonies saying
DR> it was so. How very Hubbardish!
As you can see from the above, they had very little
knowledge of women if they assumed the hymen test was anything but
a very weak indicator of virginity.
AAMOF, later in church history they would find themselves
troubled by the question of whether use of other portals left a
woman virgin or not.
... Clop. Clop. "I'm a cowboy-hippie, hippie-ay." Clop. Clop.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:10
EID:fd1d 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a0313
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Since Richard said he might not be able to post for
CJ>> a little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but
CJ>> it looks like:
CJ>> "What, me worry?"
RS> Well, since there are more bloody delays with the extortion,
RS> er, escrow, than there are nits on Staalin's hairy back,
RS> we've had to put off the move for a day or who knows?
RS>
Patience--and just a bit of that of quid!
RS> You have the translation correct. How do you like the idiot
RS> who thought that it meant I was calling him names?
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Not only was he unable to distinguish between a sig/tag
line and the message itself, but he failed to notice that you
were using it for every message from you to anybody!
... "He's dead, Jim. . . From now on, call HIM Bones!"
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:11
EID:fc8e 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a038a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
GT>>> caucasian mummies they found out in northern China. . .Mongolia or
GT>>> Siberia I believe. I read an article about them in Discover magazine
CJ>> March, 1996, _National Geographic_.
GT> Thank you. That must be one of the ones my husband abscounded with,
as
GT> I don't remember seeing it. Well, at least he gave me the one with
the
GT> penguins.
On the general topic of mummies, a couple of months later
the mag ran an intersting article on two Incan mummies.
... This is a copy of the original tagline.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: stargoat crap.
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:12
EID:4207 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a0401
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
GT>>> Hey, what kind of cheap ass gods do they have. Heck, even your
GT>>> average-every-night vampire can survive without excreting. You'd
GT>>> think their omnipotent deities could manage it.
CJ>> Not vampire bats, though. Blood is a laxative, and the
CJ>> resulting guano . . . unmistakable.
GT> That would make EXCELLENT fertilizer.
Indeed!
The Second Temple of Jerusalem had sluices to wash away all
the blood from the sacrifices. The soil where it ended up was
sold at a great premium to surrounding farmers.
Maybe this was the original "Field of Blood"?
... So many messages, so few megs.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: heat
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:13
EID:4cb3 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a0478
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>>> Ciya? Uh . . . just who is Ciya? The nanny-goat companion of
GT>>> I have vague memories of her being his niece's imaginary friend.
GT> I hope I'm right.
Those in the know told me you were.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: dark bible #4
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:38:14
EID:f207 219d4cc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9d0a04ef
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 26 Dec 96 03:12pm, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
JB> Yes. It works often enough that it is imho statistically unreasonable
JB> to ascribe the results to "coincidence." The 'meteorite' example is
not
JB> just an example: it was a real event. That is, the meteorite I asked
JB> for six months ahead of time, to see at 12:00 midnight on the day of
JB> Winter Solstice (this was many years ago, by the way), appeared on
JB> schedule, within a few minutes of the appointed hour. Which is of
JB> course to say "yes, it worked then."
John, at the very least you should have established the
average frequency of visible meteors before ascribing any
particular significance to yours.
From _A Concise Encyclopedia of Astronomy_, American
Elsevier, 1969, "Meteor":
"About 25 meteors an hour can be seen from a single
observation point with the naked eye. One observer, who naturally
cannot keep all parts of the sky under observation at the same
time, usually sees about 8 meteors in the same period. The number
of meteors visible each day over the whole of the earth is
approximately 100 million."
IOW, you could typically expect to see a meteor every 7-8
minutes anyway.
That's the over-all, "background," year-in/year-out
average. But noted: "The frequency of meteors has a daily and
an annual variation: the hourly number observed on any one night
increases from the early evening until about 3 or 4 hours after
midnight, and the mean hourly frequency for a single night is
least in the spring and a maximum in the autumn." IOW, the time
you'd specified was not the ideal in these statistical patterns,
but it was above the average.
And, as it turns, out, winter solstice is exactly the time
of the Ursids--a show which adds a dozen more meteors/hour over
the background rate.
JB> For example, the issue of smoking.... With a coincidence-violating
JB> regularity that is astonishing, I go out to get cigarettes and am
JB> interfered with on the way to the store about four times in five. The
JB> opposite is also true: if I try to _avoid_ stopping for cigarettes,
JB> events in my area _aid_ my motion _past_ the store.
JB> I can't tell you often "He" messes with me like that....
JB> (*BFGrin*)
Assmuming that all this stuff happening to you while
walking tobacco road is as statistically meaningful as you state,
other explanations would also be consistent with the above.
For instance, it is apparent that you feel guilty about
smoking. Perhaps the power operating to hinder your tobacco
purchase is yours, but you are unconscious of it?
Nicotine withdrawal makes people edgy, interferes with
their concentration, and makes them forgetful. Combine them with
a bad conscience about smoking, and you're likely to be "out of
synch" with events.
... I've been before the screen too long. . . I'm pixellated. . .
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: RESPONSE TO "BLAST
|Date: 29 Dec 96 13:43:08
EID:0c6a 219d6d60
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c6bd321
Hello Becke!
Becke Boyer wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
>Not that everybody is burning to snoop into your private life,
>but you DID conduct your courtship with Sean in a public echo,
>and it APPEARS like you dumped Sean and HOLY_SMOKE simultaneously,
>a good many months ago, after long periods of lovey dovey msgs.
BB> There was much to my and Sean's relationship that *wasn't*
BB> conducted in public echo.
Naturally,
BB> At any rate, that doesn't explain the assumptions that you
BB> have made about me, nor the libelous remarks you have made.
Your ideas about 'libel' are vague. You DO know the words
SEEM TO, MAYBE, and POSSIBILITY don't you?
Reread my old msg to Sean:
MM> I assume it was the lady we all knew as your romantic interest.
MM> Condolences or congratulations... I hardly know what to offer.
MM> You seem to have been thoroughly two-timed, so maybe all her
MM> sad background stories were also virtual reality created for
MM> their entertainment value here in HS.
MM> I guess none of us will ever know. Another possibility is that
MM> she had so low self esteem that she didn't dare to meet you.
BB> If you're that interested, DO your research. Ask me whatever
BB> you want to know.
yawn
MM> Indeed, no research was or could be done, as you simply had
MM> vanished AFA the HS echo was concerned (and to be truthful,
MM> your existence had slipped my mind). Only when Sean's msg
MM> appeared in November did your common saga surface again.
BB> And you take at face value everything you read?
Not too often, but sometimes I engage in conversation with
people who make statements.
BB> You should have considered that without me being around to
BB> defend myself against his attacks, part or all of the story
BB> could be warped? Hmph. So much for impartiality.
The subject was not interesting enough to spend time on, and
who knows, even after having read 'your side', where the
truth lies.
BB> No, I'm angry because you made assumptions about something
BB> you know nothing about, and managed to libel me in the
BB> process. As I said before, get your facts straight before
BB> you open your big mouth and spew out insults towards me
BB> which are totally unfounded. You're starting to act like a
BB> fundie.
Don't worry, dear, both you and I will get over that. The
'fundyism' may, however, have some grain of truth in it.
I DO tend to believe in the divine tits of Gwenny - and
from your own admission, so does Sean (and quite a few
other stags) - but of course, I have not been doing any
personal *Research*, so I can't prove it :-)
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 28 Dec 96 17:36:16
EID:d60e 219c8c80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72d3b25e
On Dec 26 15:56 96, DAVID RICE of 1:124/9005 wrote:
JH>> 14:18 Then Salome went in, and the midwife said, Mary, shew
JH>> thyself for a great controversy is risen concerning thee.
JH>> 14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
DR> ROTFL! Must have been before the actual birth, if
DR> she still appeared "virgin."
Oh, no!
Don't you know about the doctrine of Mary's Perpetual Virginity?
The infant Jesus didn't pass through her vagina.
He teleported his way out.
(This is detailed in the 13th chapter of the above work. The
passage is as close to Special Effects as I've seen in the Bible:
it describes a shimmering cloud of light that blinds the witnesses
and when it fades out, there's the baby Jesus sucking away at
Mary's breast.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 28 Dec 96 20:04:00
EID:f003 219ca080
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9404d9ba
NNC> The media has really played up the Jeffrey Dalmer cut up his victims,
NC>and washed the flesh down the drain...
NC> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead fetuses:
NC> Put tem down the garbage disposal, stick them in garbage bags and
stash
NC>them in a store room to rot. Dumped in trash bags along with coffee grounds
,
NC>cigarette butts and remannts of chicken dinners.
NC> One abortionist filed a complaint against another abortionist - this
NC> doctor vomited when he observed his compatriot grinding up aborted
fetuses
NC>of 15 - 22 weeks in a standard kitchen meat grinder and flushing the
tissue
NC>down the sink. ((What a wonderful world we have without a God))
Names and addresses, please. That is, if you can supply them. This has
every earmark of yet another formless, trackless xtain horror fairy
tale.
NC> Another abortion practitioner who also used a meat grinder to grind
up the
NC>dead fetuses stated that he had developed that method of
NC>disposal because the fetuses would plug up the toilet and he didn't want
to
NC>put them in the trash.
NC> One abortion clinic installed an "industrial gauge" garbage disposal
NC>they routinly dumped 8 to 20 week fetuses down the disposal.
Again, document your story. Who is this doctor, and where is his
clinic? You can name names, can't you? Or is your evidence on the
lines of 'a friend of a friend'? You can document this, can't you?
NC> Is this really very different from the way Jeffrey Dalmer disposed
of the
NC>bodies of those he killed?
NC>Compare to Nazi Germany , you could smell the burning flesh for miles
around
NC>the concentration camps and yet many Germans claimed they
NC>new nothing... History does repeat it's self doesn't it!
The Nazi's were big on the 'big lie', too. Are you repeating history
yourself?
NC> Just think! You feel abortion is ok, .... Someday society may feel
NC> you are just as "un-needed"... I hope you have a better end then the
NC> childern we are now killing in the clincs..
"Every sperm is sacred..."
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Even if you understood women, you'd never believe it!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 28 Dec 96 20:04:00
EID:a4a1 219ca080
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a1a28255
RS> RS> alcohol
RS> RS> caffiene
RS> RS> fat
RS> RS> sugar
RS> SA> Ahhhh, not quite perfect, then. The number one, most
RS> SA> indispensible food group I know of is CHOCOLATE. Granted it
RS> SA> has both fat and sugar, but there is nothing quite like
RS> SA> it...
RS> I've had Irish Coffee with chocolate sprinkles on the top.
RS> Would that suffice?
RS> Two related bits about chocolate. In another area there is a
RS> great debate going on about if chocolate is lethal for dogs
RS> in large doses. If anyone is interested, I can bootleg some
RS> of the posts over here. Also, I have somewhere a lovely
RS> Pagan chocolate ritual which, if I can find it, I may upload
RS> here. Chocolate is its own reward, after all . . .
Is that the one with the chocolate chips, or the one that ends up with
cocoa sprinkled all over the back yard?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Everything lost is found again, in a new form, in a new
way.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 28 Dec 96 20:04:00
EID:b3cb 219ca080
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f4e1c9b1
ML> KW> Yes, he has, and I will be off the serious meds by tomorrow. :)
ML> Not so yours truly (I just *know* I'm going to regret this post
ML> in a later life...), but I was incarcerated in the local
ML> hospitalatorium for 3.5 days beginning last Saturday, very early
ML> AM.
ML> What I thought was a mild case of "Asian Restaurant Syndrome"
ML> after a Friday lunch at a local Korean eatery, in short,
ML> wasn't.
Oh, no...
ML> I was unceremoniously dumped in the ER at 0600 and almost as
ML> quickly admitted with excruciating lower (very lower, thank you
ML> very much) abdominal pain. After an attenuated series of X-rays,
ML> a renogram, ultrasound and series of purely exquisite palpitations,
ML> pokings and proddings; I was retired for the eve under the guidance
of
ML> some fairly amusing sedatives in fairly massive quantities.
I'm so sorry to hear about this.
ML> Early Sunday morning, a wee knock on the door announced an even
more
ML> wee character bedecked in basic black, a very starched white collar
and
ML> carrying an ominous black book.
ML> "Good morning, my son." he smarmed as he oozed bedside.
ML> "Buzz off...I ain't your son." (I'm even less congenial when I'm
ML> IV'ed, Foley cath'ed and in pain than I am usually.)
ML> "But, my son, I come to offer you words of comfort..."
ML> "Look chuckles, unless you have 100 cc's of morphine and vikodan
ML> in a hypo ready for delivery, nothing you could possibly say would
ML> be of any comfort."
ML> "I'm here to tell you of the 'Good News', how God will lift the
pain
ML> from you."
ML> "Look, Buckwheat, I already told you; I'll rely on something tangible
ML> in the soporific department. button?>"
ML> "Oh, but God is tangible..."
ML> "G'wan...beat it...scram...I don't believe in God or any other of
your
ML> goofy superstitions."
ML> He looked physically stung.
ML> "You don't believe in God?"
ML> "Oh..." he began to chuckle..."I see your IV. You must be in pain...
ML> You're delusional."
ML> "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! YOU'RE DELUSIONAL!"
ML> I guess the Linda Blair head-turns and bed-raising exorcises were
ML> unnecessary as he beat a hasty retreat to the door, clutching
ML> his crucifix and uttering semi-audible mantras.
You let him live?
ML> (It turned out to be diverticulitis, extra painful division. Although
ML> Darvocet 400's and gobs of antibiotics are helping to turn the tide.)
Marty, I'm ashamed of how long it took me to get around to getting into
my mail packets. I hope that you are doing better now. Do they have
you on a diet for this?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * File not found. Remember, you just erased it.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 28 Dec 96 20:04:00
EID:fc2a 219ca080
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f805e198
RH>Except from me, once in awhile, just to keep things balanced.
RH>Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
Which goddess? ;)
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Find God? Why, is she missing?
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 28 Dec 96 20:04:00
EID:707a 219ca080
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4511ae81
GTP>I can sleep . . .or not sleep. . .just about anywhere. And we have
sleeping
GTP>bags and an air mattress, so we're good to go. Um, just one problem.
GTP>Everyone in our house sleeps naked. I don't think I own a decent
(ie,
GTP>intended for sleeping) nightgown. I suppose I'll hafta to go out and
buy one.
Or team up with others of us who cant stand to sleep in nightclothes!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Flash! Energizer Bunny Arrested -- Charged with Battery!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: When in doubt, PCR the su
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:15:56
EID:4d6b 219d89e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c6a771
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Mercurii dies December 25 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad MARTIN GOLDBERG:
DR> PLEASE!!! PLEASE tell me who published it, and give
DR> me any phone number of the organization that published
DR> it, and the city where you live / received it. I want
DR> to telephone them and say:
Drop me your address in mail, as I can try to get you a copy of the thing.
Copies are very easily obtained here in Rowlett.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:19:18
EID:fc81 219d8a60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c6a839
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Veneris dies December 27 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad ANDREW MASTEN:
>>DR> Since the Big Bang defines time, there is no such
>>DR> thing as an "outside." This has already been
>>DR> explained to you: why do you keep asserting a
>>DR> known false hypothesis?
AM>> No David, it hasn't been explained, its simply been
AM>> asserted by you. And my assertion is not a false
AM>> hypothesis, but logical deduction.
[...]
AM>> Why should the universe be an exception?
DR> Because it is irrelevant.
Cut to the quick: Who created God?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Fido shits again
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:21:20
EID:35bc 219d8aa0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c6a8bc
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32c2b8a8
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Jovis dies December 26 1996, Dixit Don Martin ad Marty Leipzig:
DM>> [Corporal Klink voice]: I saw nussing, nussing. . . .
ML>> Actually, it was Colonel Klink; but Sargeant Schultz was the
ML>> one who uttered those immortal lines.
ML>> (Gad. Have we really sunk so low as to be discussing the
ML>> attributes of Hogan's Heroes?)
Of course, there's always my favourite:
Klink: General Burkhalter, it is such a pleasure to see you!
Burkhalter: It is not a pleasure to see YOU, Klink.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Leon Askin Fan Club - 972/412-8457 (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Kurtis Baxter
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 26 Dec 96 12:14:00
EID:330b 219a61c0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2c3f7f81
-=> Quoting Kurtis Baxter to All <=-
Good morning, Kurtis.
KB> Do you think the bible is real,
Sure it's real. There's one sitting right here behind my computer.
(This is going to sound sacreligious, but right now my RSV is holding up
the back of my monitor - it just happened to be the right size for the
job, and was within arms reach when the short in the video cable got too
bothersome. If it wasn't real, the monitor would fall down . My KJV
is still on the shelf nearby, though).
KB> and god really wrote it etc,
A rational look at the evidence would lead one to believe otherwise.
Personally, I believe that an inspection of the internal evidence
indicates that He may have inspired it, or at least parts of it.
KB> or do you
KB> think it was written by a group so that people would feel that they
KB> had a purpose, and there was a meaning for life?
All of the above.
KB> Hmm..... I love turtles.
I prefer peppermint patties.
Take care.
... He who hath many friends, hath none. - Aristotle
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:22:32
EID:6142 219d3ac0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62329
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32c4aed7
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Gerry!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Gerry say to Gwenny:
GP>RS>>> He is in England, where it is called something else. And it
GP>RS>>> has different names around the world.
GP>GD>> I'll bet it's called Christmas in England...
GP>> It's also called Yule, even though Yule is specifically the Winter
GP>> Solstice.
GD> Maybe, but Christmas is still Christmas unless you believe different...
Silly person, alot of English people DO think differently. That is where
the NeoPagan movement started. I've yet to meet a someone British who was
Christian, let alone fundamentalist Christian.
GP>RS>>> Don't be anglocentric.
GP>GD>> Excuse me?
GP>> The American propensity for believing that all the Universe uses the
GP>> same language and has the same view of things as they do. We are VERY
GP>> sheltered
GD> Isn't this an Enlish-language echo?
Predominantly. That wasn't your question. You wanted to know what Anglocentric
meant.
GP>> much of the world they are converting. Truth is, there were only a
GP>> couple o tiny places where the MAJORITY of the people profess a belief
GP>> in Jeshua and his ghost dad. A good portion of the planet has never
GP>> even seen a missionar
GD> Is that what we're talking about, my newage friend?
It's what I'm talking about. Just trying to increase your knowledge. I
know, givinig a fool knowledge is like pouring water down a rat hole. BTW,
I'm not New Age. New Age is a cop-out for people not willing to take the
plunge and leave Christianity. I don't believe in angels, guides, dieties,
etc. I am a pure unadulterated barbarian pagan. The New Agers call my
type "unevolved" because we believe in guns, hunting, protecting ourselves,
etc. I would have been offended, but I noticed that you are too stupid
to know the different. One has to be nice to children, animals, and idiots.
GP>> and at least two thirds doesn't have enough converts to support a
GP>> church. we blithely go along believing that everyone celebrates
GP>> Christmas.
GD> No, I don't mean to suggest that everyone celebrates Christmas, just
GD> that those who do, know its meaning.
Pretty big assumption given the range this echo has. We have folks from
England, South Africa, Australia, and, perhaps, even SE Asia. And even
Russia when Marty is out and about. To ASS-ume that everyone here even
cares that it's the birthday of Mithras which was later stolen by a outshoot
of Judaism is pushing it. To ASS-ume that they celebrate it defies intelligence.
To demand they call it CHRIST_MASS, when they, in fact, loathe the perversion
that has grown up around the name identifies you for what you are. It's
Yule at our house. My grandchildren will grow up to call it Yule and we
won't poison their thoughts about Christ until they are old enough to understand.
GP>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
GP>> Gwenny
GD> And who will be your authority when you stand before God Almighty after
GD> you die? I'm sorry but I feel very sorry for you.
You are a twit. Truly. I didn't leave god, your god never bothered to
answer me. My deduction, after having done everything I was told to do
in five different xtians sects, is that there is no god, he was an invention
of priests a millenia or so ago so that they could control the masses and
get rich. He will not judge me. He dare not judge me. To judge me he
must take into consideration that he NEVER, EVER kept his promises in the
bible, that he allowed me to be raped, sodomized, beaten and mentally and
spiritually abused for twelve years, that he is responsible for everything
his followers have even done to me. If he exists, your scriptures show him
to be a baby-killing, woman-hating racist pervert. The only sorrow you
should have for me is that it took me so long to heal enough to tell his
misguided followers to shove off.
Damn! I really should just make a FAQ of my life, so I could just repost
it to every xtian that wanders in here telling me I am wrong.
GD> You may just feel wonderful about yourself right now,
I do. Which is quite a change from the first thirty-five years of my life
when I was certain that I was a terrible evil person for your god to totally
ignore me and allow people around me to keep hurting me. I was certain
that I must have been born a terrible evil person for your god to allow
my stepfather to hurt me so bad; that I would never have anyone to love
me, because my mother told me so almost daily; that I must be sub-human
since my father was Indian, because my sisters and their kin called the
dirty little Indian brat; that I wasn't smart enough to find the Truth,
because the followers of your god lied to me.
BUT (warning, witnessing to follow ), five years ago I moved away from
all the evil influences in my life. . .away from the Church, away from family,
away from friends. . .and started from scratch. I met a really weird pagan
alcoholic and then next time I got depressed (so depressed I couldn't even
contemplate killing myself, as I deserved to suffer) I cried out to your
god and BEGGED him to make me better. BEGGED, as I had begged on my knees
as a child. NO ANSWER. Nada, not a peep. So I got angry and I said, "Fine,
I don't care who you are, SOMEBODY answer me." A very sweet woman's voice
said, "Go to sleep, it will be alright." Imagine my surprise. No one had
ever answered me. Ever. I did the only thing I could do. I said, "Excuse
me?" "Go to sleep," said the same voice, but a little peeved, "it will be
alright in the morning." Hey, I don't argue with voices, even if that was
the only time I heard one. I went to sleep. It HAS been alright.
GD> but think of the hereafter...and don't for a moment about
GD> reincarnation. It ain't real!
What hereafter? If a hereafter existed, someone would have found a way
back to tell us. As Heinlein says, there is absolutely no evidence for
an afterlife. Nor is there any evidence that it doesn't exist. Soon enough
you will know. Why worry about it?
I am sure that IF your god exists (which god is that, btw?), he would be
at least as fair as earthly judges. But, like reincarnation, he ain't
real. I'm not worried about it. If he wants me, he knows where to find
me. I'm still waiting for ANY deity to show up for dinner.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Time flies when you're dazed and confused.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: No, really.
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:52:25
EID:9e08 219d3e80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c626cb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to GWENNY:
DR> You'll never guess who sent me e-mail this morning. Nope. Nope. Nope.
DR> It was Hawk Shadow (Julie)! No, really!
Cool! She's a really great person. Open the letter.
DR> I'm afraid to read it, though, because it is probably a reply to a
DR> message I sent to the Dragonfest Board of Directors asking them to
DR> tell her I still think she hung the moon and stars. Hummm. I've
DR> written so on the community center board for the past four years.
Yeah, and then you won't tell anyone where you camp. The only place
I've ever seen you is at meals and the mead tasting. (BTW, it was wonderful
last year. Too bad you had to leave so soon.)
DR> The reply could span the spectrum from the negative side "Get lost you
DR> revoltingly ugly creep,"
David, dear, don't make me spank you. If people like Falkhan and Mike Malloy
can get woman (multiple women at that), so can you. You are NOT ugly.
You are a very nice looking man, even if you do try to vanish if a woman
looks at you.
DR> to the most-likely moderate "Oh, that's nice *YAWN!*" to the bloody
DR> unlikely "Ooooh! Take me now, big boy!"
What you seem to fail to understand is that most of us are empathic. You
give off "don't touch me" vibes. Especially to more ample women like myself.
None of us is going to bother you as long as you do that. There are entirely
too many men trying to drag us behind the bushes for us to pine after you.
So if I tease, it is just teasing. I do not ignore other people's KEEP
OUT signs. If you want a woman at Dfest to take you seriously, you need
to be serious about. I seem to recall a woman making a pass at you a couple
of years ago. She's probably STILL nursing her ego after the way you responded.
Tell you what, this year you can enroll in Gwenny's flirting class. I will
do my best to help you connect with the fairer sex. (I did fairly well in
spite of the Hunter and Starfire this year by just carrying around a basket
and saying I was Red Riding Hood and I was looking for a wolf. ) Of
course, I have the advantage of being somewhat notorious. There are still
people who remember me as the busty woman with the red scarf and the Harley
hat. Hmmmmm, I wonder if Johannan is going to be there this time.
DR> So you can see why I'm afraid to read it. :-) Maybe I'll forge a
DR> "UNDELIVERABLE" message and send it back.
READ THE MESSAGE DAVID. No matter what it says, it is better than the suspense.
Don't make me come out there and beat you.
hugs and snuggles,
Gwenny
... TOWEL -- Don't leave home without it!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:08:31
EID:74e0 219d4100
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c627a3
REPLY: 1:358/1 661e5b5b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Gwenny:
QF>>> I'm a little curious as to why this is a concern of yours. She's not
QF>>> even old enough to date you, and even if she was, nobody would be
QF>>> making you date her.
GtP>> THANK YOU!
QF> Actually, she sounds like she'd be really cute if she was a few years
QF> older. :)
I think she is beautiful, but she's my daughter. I imagine that when she
is legal, men like David not withstanding, she will have no problem getting
men. I have never had any problem.
She read this message over my shoulder. She said, "thank you."
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... By releasing my inhibitions, I can get in touch w/my Inner Psychopath!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:11:22
EID:fa24 219d4160
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c627bf
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d5f88f4c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:
GTP>KW>> Mike Hardy Mobile, Alabama former evangelical 2 years
GTP>KW>> Christian turned
GTP>KW>> Open-minded agnostic.
GTP>> Ack, I have been missing out on good stuff. Have we had a atheist
or
GTP>> agnostic "find Jesus" yet??
KW> Not that I'm aware of, unless you want to count Joanna.
I don't think yoyos count.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Way to accelerate a MAC #12: Fire it from a canon.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:14:06
EID:63f3 219d41c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c628b6
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c4cc660
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Richard!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Richard say to Gwenny:
GD>> I'll bet it's called Christmas in England...
GtP>> It's also called Yule, even though Yule is specifically the
GtP>> Winter Solstice.
RS> Which is what I told him. I wasn't aware that they finally started
RS> calling it Christmas . . . all the English novels that I've ever read
RS> that dealt with that time of year referred to it as Yule, I'm pretty
RS> sure . . .
I always thought that, too. But then all the Brits I know are either Wiccan,
atheist, or SF nuts. . .or all three.
GtP>> I don't believe that Richard's little macro is an insult. I
GtP>> had (and I don't really know Latin) kinda translated it to
GtP>> mean something along the lines of "What, am I worried?" I
GtP>> could be wrong. Just about the time I think I've figured it
GtP>> out, I'm wrong.
RS> You've got it right, it's: What, me worry? As in Alfred E.
RS> Neuman, as in Mad Magazine . . .
That's what Wild said when I asked. It has been just years since I read
a Mad. I had forgotten. But it seemed obvious to me.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Use New "Instant Shaman." Just add magick and beat with a drum.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:15:59
EID:d1a7 219d41e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c629df
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 c8d7ceee
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to Gwenny:
Gt>> According to my husband there are two organizations higher
Gt>> than MENSA. My guess would be that many of you (again, I only
Gt>> JUST qualify for MENSA) would fit there. If it was worth the
Gt>> trouble.
MB> There's a lot more than two. There Intertel, which has a one
MB> percent cut-off point, and the Triple Nine Society, which requires
MB> you to place in the upper .1 percent of the population, but there
MB> is also a group that is called the International Society for
MB> Philosophical Inquiry (or something similar to that), and other
MB> even less-well-known groups. The TNS fascinates me, as it only
MB> has something like 150 members worldwide. That being the case,
MB> the "S" seems a bit of a misnomer.
I had no idea there were so many. But then, I wouldn't be in the position
to know. Wild says he took the Triple Nine test on a dare and passed it.
But he said he never joined because "they are more boring than the St. Andrews
Society." ARGGGGGHHHH! That's scary.
Bottom line is, I will never qualify for any of them. No use pining about
it. My only fear is getting caught in some disaster or catastrophe with
a bunch of them. The thought of being the only person with real world skills
who knows how to use a can opener TERRIFIES me.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... REALITY-OMETER: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so ...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:20:49
EID:7d57 219d4280
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c629ff
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c58733
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
GtP>> However, I do agree that it is merely a compliment for the necessary
GtP>> carne. The toughest time we've had recently was when the vegetarian
GtP>> Christian was staying with us for a month and I ran out of interesting
GtP>> veggie recipes in less than a week. And I DON'T do tofu.
GT> I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat BEAN CURDS!
No, indeed. Give me a nice bloody hunk of meat any day.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... The OFFICIAL tagline of the 1996 Olympics!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:21:23
EID:2c9d 219d42a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62a91
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c59206
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
JJ>>>> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4% atheists in the U.S.?
DW>>> Glen is one of those goofy pagans, Jesse. Get your shit together,
ok?
GT> _Heathen_, dammit!
Damn straight, we DO live in the middle of the wilderness.
GtP>> And you are a misogynist, your point.
GT> Yes, he has a point, dear -- but if he wears a hat, maybe people won't
GT> notice.
And a hat big enough to cover it would certainly draw so much attention
that he could run around naked and no one would notice that other LITTLE
thing he has. Well, maybe they wouldn't notice it anyway.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... And Satan said to God, "Yes, but where will YOU find a lawyer?"
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:23:56
EID:0676 219d42e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62acd
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c59762
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
DM>>>> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss Defenseless
DM>>>> here?
DW>>> Yeah, real defenseless... about as defenseless as a M-1A.
GtP>> I don't know where you people got the idea that I am anything but
a
GtP>> shy retiring obedient woman. Just ask my hus...on second thought,
GtP>> don't.
GT> No comment.
Your training isn't complete yet. Back to the dungeon. And I don't think Wiccans would take him. Various New Age metafundies
FR> might want him.
Al is almost New Age as it is. New Agers are just a brand of Christian
that pines over angels and considers us pagans to be unevolved barbarians.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Sermon good, missionary Tasty, send more soon.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: "Yours is the superior intellect."
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:33:15
EID:7af5 219d4420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62da2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50b3498
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to ROBERT:
CG>> IQ: 174, tested by MENSA, an organisation I do not belong to,
CG>> since I found that it was full of 'social dysfunctionals'.
rc>> It was very kind of you to avoid exacerbating the problem by joining.
FR> I've got to ask what test this clown's number is predicated upon. I
FR> know of no test which doesn't provide a number that's not a multiple
FR> of 10.
Really. Gosh, I used to have a whole paperback of sample tests put out
by MENSA. I tested 136 on all but one. I got 137 on it. Since that is
also what school IQ test put me at, I just believed it. I also took the
test at some display they had at a mall, but I don't remember the score.
I do know they gave me a membership form.
So, would they round up or down to get my score in multiples of ten?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... My family tree is in the forest, somewhere!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal's Jesus dick. Just how long was it?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:38:03
EID:72f1 219d44c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62e0e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8bf8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to Curtis:
FR> I could imagine the poor dear at a Pagan festival during a nature worship
FR> ritual. The poor dear would burst into flame and burn into cinders.
Quick, somebody bring the marshmallows.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "I'd be more awake if I weren't so tired." --Kelandris
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:47:18
EID:e793 219d45e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c630fe
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8c14
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to Brian:
FR> Not to mention one must consider the alternative. We've polled the
forum
FR> before; no one likes the idea of abortions and no woman interviewed
at a
FR> clinic defense _wanted_ to have an abortion. The alternative, however,
was
FR> subsistance-level starvation and servitude.
Hey, I never thought of it before, but none of the women I protest with
has ever had an abortion. Given that there are hundreds of women there,
what with the Chain of Life and us, there must be SOMEONE who's had an abortion.
So it must be from THEIR side. How ironic.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Overflow on null device; please empty the bit bucket.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:51:50
EID:b61b 219d4660
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c63148
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8c19
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to All:
FR> How about a contest where theists pray for something to happen and atheists
FR> pray for something else to happen... We could tally-up the results
and use
FR> them to show the value of praying.
What about us pagans. We don't pray. We light candles and chant.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... No one can hear you scream at 300 baud.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:53:14
EID:2831 219d46a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c6320b
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Glen:
GT>> Hoo-hah! Maybe I'd better stick around to pick up the
GT>> pieces after this one.
MM> Nah, I don't mind..... I actually enjoy this kind of trolling
MM> banter. Dave is after all headmaster of 'The School of Snide
MM> Remarks'. I just keep my ammo dry and wait for the right
MM> moment :-) He is a great teaser - I am just sorry Gwenny felt
MM> hurt by his latest 'snidery'.
It's because Suzanne has to deal with that kind of crap at school. It is
very hurtful to her and, thus, to me. I remember being teased as a teen,
after I put on about thirty pounds following ovarian surgery. I don't care
what stupid men say about me now, as I am comfortable with who and what
I am. My daughter is only thirteen, and it hurts her alot to be made fun
of.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "I came, I saw, she conquered. The latin seems to be garbled" RAH
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:59:34
EID:466a 219d4760
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c633ee
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3e35c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Nate!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Nate say to Don:
NC> My Favorite Martian was speaking!!! So I just had to stop and look in!
Oh, you like Michael, too? Did you know he was bi?
DM>> To me, the main theme of the echo is debunking, but Tiggy's
NC> Gee, whiz!!! And here we thought the purpose of this echo was so
you
NC> could call everyone a "Fundy"... Glad you finally set us all straight!
Not everyone. He's never called ME fundy, even though I've been told I
have an excellent fundament.
DM>> confusion is justified. Speaking for myself, I don't give a damn
DM>> about religion and would never trouble my pretty little head about
NC> The way you attack everyone who has a belief in God, you'd think
other
NC> wise.... Maybe it's not that "you don't give a damn".. maybe it's
just
NC> that you are runnning scared....
One question. Which god?
DM>> So long as they keep their hands off of our common wealth, our
DM>> government, religious persons of whatever stripe may worship
DM>> whatever they choose in whatever way they like without any objection
DM>> from me. I was recently reminded of an observation by Gibbon
NC> Gee.. one minute you are extoling the individuals rights to think
and
NC> do as we see fit, then is some other post you attack and call people
NC> "Fundies"...
He didn't deny your the right to think, unlikely as it is tht you can, he
says you can't act on your dysfunctional thoughts.
NC> You really are two faced aren't you? But then I can understand it,
NC> since you lack the knowledge of a personal saviour you feel or know
NC> you won't be answering to anyone or anything but your self...
And I would trust him a thousand times faster than I would trust you. Christians
are notorious for doing unethical things because their "personal savior"
will make it okay. I would never, ever trust my kids with an xtian.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Once again, Odo wins the Twister championship.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: God misses victims . . .
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:04:23
EID:c1c8 219d4880
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c63476
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c44cb57
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Richard!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Richard say to All:
>> But every one of the choir's fifteen members escaped
>> injury, saved by a fortuitous coincidence: All were late for
>> practice that night. Considering the sanctified site of the
>> explosion, it was not surprising that some attributed the
>> near miss to divine intervention.
>> They supposed rightly that the odds of unanimous tardiness
>> were slim indeed, especially when the reasons were examined.
Slim my ass. Why do you think they called it "Mormon Standard
Time"?
RS> Skeptic's take on the above: Gads, the Xtian Deity doesn't
RS> have any better aim than Asmodeus does . . .
Maybe Asmodeus IS god.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I just Love the smell of Florida Orange Peels burning in the morning!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: True Folk
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:07:34
EID:3030 219d48e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c635b4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to DAVID:
DW>> First the Christians give us "True Christians/
DW>> False Christian Scum." Now we get "True Folk/
DW>> False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
DR> I'm not at all sure, but for the Aesir-minded,
DR> the word "Folk" capitalized roughly means "coven"
DR> or "community."
Yes. And in the context of what Wild was saying, it wasn't TRUE and as
true or false, but True as in dedicated or, gasp, faithful.
DW>> What's next?
DR> True Spoon-benders / False Spoon-bender Scum.
True David Worrell scum
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Zhirinovsky of Borg: I will reassimilate Alaska and Finland.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: When in doubt, PCR the su
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:13:09
EID:3791 219d49a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c63674
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to MARTIN:
MG>> 2. It was only a matter of time, but yesterday, I
MG>> found on my doorstep a small plastic bag with a
MG>> very small book in it (about the size of "Famous
MG>> Jewish Sports Heroes"). It was the "Christian
MG>> Yellow Pages. I suppose now you cna get a car
MG>> wash or your roof painted with your Jesus.
MG>>
MG>> As I said, it was only a matter of time.
DR> PLEASE!!! PLEASE tell me who published it, and give
DR> me any phone number of the organization that published
DR> it, and the city where you live / received it. I want
DR> to telephone them and say:
DR> "Thank you very much for a copy of 'Christian Yellow
DR> Pages.' I was wondering which businesses to boycott:
DR> this reference makes my boycot =MUCH= easier!"
Hey, that's what we do here. The have similar things here. We also have
the "Light Pages"--lists of metaphysical stuff. But the Pink Pages are
best. Gay friendly.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... The floggings will continue until morale improves.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Equal rights
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:23:07
EID:7ace 219d4ae0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c638ad
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c4e88b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Martin:
MG>> Drinking bourbon is kinda like having a glass of iced tea....and then
MG>> fidning a dead cockroach in the bottom.
DM> At least with the bourbon, you know what killed the roach.
You know, I get the feeling that Dr. Lepzieg is outnumbered.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... `Who's an omen? Aaaaaaark.' - the four budgies of the apocalypse
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:27:01
EID:c800 219b6b60
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c6cc2a
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9810019e
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Curtis Johnson, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 24
Dec 96 12:08:01:
CJ>> The Irish??? I'm not aware that they invaded any other
CJ>> country than Canada.
SH> They burnt the records of their own history at the 4 courts in Dublin
SH> in 1922.
CJ> The Four Courts building housed courts of justice, an
CJ> unlikely place to store "the records of their own history."
CJ> I have found references to the building being badly damaged in
CJ> 1922 when the IRA holed up there during fighting with the new
CJ> Irish government.
CJ> Destruction of court records is not libarary burning.
Well, maybe the Irish do unlikely things, but nevertheless a lot of historical
records were kept there, and a lot of books note the difficulties this causes
for historical research.
SH> You appeared to be saying that the Egyprians had done the same thing
at
SH> Alexandria.
CJ> A particular group of Egyptians, for religious reasons.
Which group?
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... Add to your genealogy the easy way: have grandchildren
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:31:50
EID:8ac9 219b6be0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c6cc2b
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Marty Leipzig, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 25
Dec 96 04:25:09:
ML> Now, are you saying that one needs to be "saved" (whatever that
ML> may be; you've never bothered to define the term) in order to
ML> survive?
Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone need
a
liver?"
The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the universe
and
everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when we
look
at the world around us there are a lot of things that don't look good -
war,
oppression, crime, sickness, and so on. Christians regard these as evil,
or as
sin. "Sin" means falling short of the target, or failing to reach a goal.
The
world has somehow failed to reach the goal of "goodness".
Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random occurrence,
but is actually caused by a power or force that promotes it. There is ill
will
behind it. Christians believe that the world is enemy-occupied territory,
and
the enemy who occupies it is the devil, or the satan (which means enemy,
adversary, opponent, public prosecutor, district attorney).
Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration camp,
with Satan as the commandant.
Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the mess
it had
got into, but acted to get out of the mess. God became man, and entered
the
concentration camp in the guide of a prisoner. The guards knew there was
something odd about this particular prisoner, but weren't sure what. They
decided to get rid of him, and executed him but that was their downfall.
As
the Christian scriptures put it, "None of the rulers of this age understood
this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"
(I Co
2:8).
Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the gates
of the concentration camp. Christians believe that this is good news, and
that
they should tell others the news that the commandant is locked up, and the
gates are broken down. Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the
devil, evil, sin and death.
So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone needs
to be
saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration camp.
Of course if you don't share those assumptions, and you don't think the
world
is like that, then it won't make much sense to you. You might think that
there
is neither good nor evil, and that there is no purpose in existence, and
that
life came into being purely by chance and that the events that we observe
or
think we observe are just one damn thing after another with nothing either
better or worse than anything else. If you see things that way, then being
saved is no different from being damned.
... I'd love to stay here and be normal, but it's just so overrated
... Marty Leipzig's obfuscatory ramblings continue to mystify me
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:39:48
EID:bfba 219b6ce0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c6cc2c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9900885a
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Curtis Johnson, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 24
Dec 96 23:12:07:
CJ> So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
There is a reference to them in a book by Eric Thacker and Anthony Earnshaw,
called "Musrum", which begins as follows:
* There was little excuse for the invention of the name MUSRUM. It was already
known in sixteen principalities and native states.
* There were, however, several religious reasons, but these are unlikely
to become evident it what follows.
* Musrum is terribly afraid of sponge-cats.
* Keep your sponge-cat under control
* The Kingdom of Intersol slopes down for a hundred miles through blue flax
plantations to the sea and oblivion.
* The Trans-Siberian Railway was established to facilitate the construction
of the Far East.
* Every hour, on the precise stroke, trains leave Moscow bearing Musrum
and his relations in tears.
* Gilvis wrote a book of life for the dead.
* He is probably writing your biography at this moment.
* A sponge-cat weeps after the Muscovite trains. Musrum also weeps, but
in another room.
* Sudden prayers make God jump.
*The forehead of the Arch-Seraph slopes down for a hundred miles to the
sea and oblivion.
* Mandrills and bishops have purple in common.
* The fear of sponge-cats is the beginning of wisdom.
* A torpedoed cathedral sinks rapidly into the earth.
* The third miracle introduced red and green into the world.
* The fourth miracle made God duck.
- etc.
And that contains just about all I know about sponge-cats :-)
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... As a river flows always towards its mouth, so fire burns
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:57:50
EID:796e 219d9f20
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c713a90
REPLY: 1:229/622 32c5a287
Hello Dave!
Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Fredric Rice:
FR> "Allright! Who threw that stone?" - Life of Brian.
DH> "And Jesus said, let he among you who is without sin cast
DH> the first stone. And lo, as the stone went whistling past
DH> His ear, He stamped His foot and said, Mother! Will you
DH> let me do my job?"
LOL!!!
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Carl Pollock
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:18:31
EID:0fff 219d7a40
<<=QUOTING Fredric Rice @1:218/890 V TO All @{echomail}*4=>>
FR@V> How about a contest where theists pray for something to happen and
FR@V> atheists pray for something else to happen... We could tally-up the
FR@V> results and use them to show the value of praying.
The thing wrong with that idea is that God does not respond with a "yes"
to any
old prayer. If the request dosen't corraspond with his will, the answer
will be
a "no".
... key?? Where did they stick THAT one???????
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- VFIDO 7.12
* Origin: PC Online (1:2424/2406)
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:14:26
EID:70e8 219d81c0
MSGID: 1:106/113 72e0235c
CJ> themselves troubled by the question of whether use of other
CJ> portals left a woman virgin or not.
Jesus was delivered from the womb.
Satan was delivered from the anus.
Propaganda was delivered from the mouth.
So saith Mickey Mouse, my god.
--- msgedsq 2.1a
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 25 Dec 96 09:10:50
EID:202f 21994940
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Lynda
Bustilloz
GtP> Heilsa, Lynda!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Lynda say to Steve:
LB> þ TLX v4.10 þ A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
GtP> It's only a flesh wound.
"I've had worse."
... Cheeses of Nazareth: New age Deli in Jerusalem
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:38:09
EID:17d5 219c6cc0
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Food for thought department.
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications after a
ML> two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
AS> If you were God, who would YOU rather have close to you?
Sounds rather reminiscent of Billy Graham who spoke to Korean
War widows that "God needed to populate heaven".
That hollow ring I hear is not tubular bells.
AS> (Not doubting that the loss of Sagan is a loss to us all, though,
AS> that remain here...)
Indeed. I feel a great sadness knowing that he is no more (I
met Dr. Sagan when I was assistant curator of the Milwaukee
Public Museum. That man was a hoot. He will be greatly missed.)
... "Meanwhile, on Cape Cod, Pepperidge Farm remembers..." - Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Job/Problem with pain
|Date: 26 Dec 96 05:04:57
EID:22e7 219a2880
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to All <=-
CG> I am at a crossroads in my studies, since I am currently learning
CG> hebrew (canaanite) and aramaic; so it will be a while before I can
CG> continue.
ML> Looks like a Wiens-wannabe in training.
CG> Wienerschnitzel?
Schweinhund.
CG> Nothing like good curry sauce with it as well.
If it's habanero pepper based.
CG> To study source material Marty, you have to be able to read it.
Indeed. That's why I'm fluent in petrology, etc.
CG> You
CG> can't argue accurately, if you are relying upon other peoples'
CG> translations.
But of course you can; particularly if you're arguing their
choice of translation or the lack of consistency in their pet
translation.
CG> To debunk religion you have to reach into its history,
But merely one way in the myriad methods available to the
seasoned debunker. For instance, another method is the _ad
hominum_; which I'm sure you've heard of, right, asshole?
CG> and tear the
CG> guts out of the foundations -
I prefer to tear the guts out of the religionist; sometime by
way of religions sordid history.
Many roads lead to Rome, Chris.
CG> pissing around on the roof just gets the
CG> guttering wet!
As a Brit, you should full well know the dangers of being drunk
while on a roof.
... Are you suggesting that coconuts are migratory?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Billy "Liar" Wolff
|Date: 26 Dec 96 05:15:39
EID:8b68 219a29e0
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to ALL
MG> Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
There are several theories; but all include lower life forms
and decorum prevents me from listing them all here.
... A torpedoed cathedral sinks rapidly into the earth.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:42:13
EID:ae88 219a8d40
Curtis Johnson, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SM>>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
JH>>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
DC>>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML>>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV>>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML>>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH>>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML>>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC>>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML>>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC>>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML>>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
DR>>> GRACCHUS! GRACCHUS! REFORM HIM!
DR>>> GRAFTER! GRAFTER! CON HIM!
DR>>> GRAHAM! GRAHAM! CRACKER HIM!
ML>> GRAVAMENS! GRAVAMENS! GRIPE HIM!
ML>> GRAND JURY! GRAND JURY! INDICT HIM!
CJ>> GEOLOGISTS! GEOLOGISTS! STONE HIM!
ML> GEOPHYSICISTS! GEOPHYSICISTS! BOUGER HIM!
CJ> GYNECOLOGISTS! GYNECOLOGISTS! EXAM--er, never mind.
GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
... -1 Kelvin is just too cool.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mustard bath
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:43:05
EID:c4a1 219a8d60
Curtis Johnson, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DR>> Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person
DR>> need?!
CJ>> Bread and sardines.
ML> Beer and cigars.
CJ> Books and broads.
Bourbon and binoculars (the microscope, you pervert...)
... "Life... don't talk to me about life!" - Marvin, the paranoid android
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:46:44
EID:4c12 219a8dc0
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Gwenny
The Pooh
DW> On , you wrote me:
GtP> Yes, the exception being women who wear size 11 shoes and
GtP> rings,
DW> A size eleven ring? That's no ring - it's a discus with a hole cut out
DW> of it.
If it's a numbers game you want, your humble scribe here wears
a wedding band that rings in at a size 21.
Ham-finger syndrome is not pretty. Give so that more may tpye...
... "Oedipus! You old motherfucker!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:49:32
EID:2337 219a8e20
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Martin
Goldberg
DW> On , you wrote me:
DW>> You shouldn't really blame yourself. Both 'bamies and
DW>> Texassans share one important trait - they're all dumb
DW>> as rocks.
DW>> It is easy to get the two confused.
MG> If you wnat a war betweent he states, I can get you some
MG> great Davy Crockett jokes.
MG> Speaking of dumb as a box of rocks and a coward as well.
DW> I see Texassans don't even know how to show proper gratitude. If it
DW> weren't for the sacrifices made by my ancestors, you silly bastards'd
DW> be speaking Spanish now.
DW> Maybe it's time for another Mexican War - this time to force 'em to
DW> take all that useless territory back.
DW> They can also have Colorado while they're at it.
And every El Chico, Chi Chi's and Monteray Grill; as well as
their punk grub.
... Abilene looks good....in my rear-view mirror!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Lying Jones Scum
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:54:47
EID:07d4 219a8ec0
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
ML> Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo),
ML> said to David Worrell
FR> Jones looks at his own dick and sees "demonic pacts."
ML> But he has to squint *really* hard.
RS> Neither you nor Fredric mentioned the magnifying glass . . .
ML> A scanning electron magnifying glass is a given.
RS> Ouch . . .
That's just me...practicing my quick shot and verbal kneecap.
... "Oh, that'll go great in his alien-hell-beast-from-space collection!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:56:08
EID:a217 219a8f00
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to ALL <:(
DC> You are nasty, very nasty. If it keeps the likes of Martinez off
DC> of the streets, you are elligible for saint hood.
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
CG> I run a charity as well,
ML> And I'll wager next that he's 1.95 m tall, a black belt
ML> in karate and will soon be impressing us all with his
ML> abnormal IQ.
RS> I knew I should have invested in milk crate futures . . .
Or ear plugs and dark sunglasses.
... Ever notice how the same names crop up when creationism is around?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:56:58
EID:c6b8 219a8f00
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Al Schroeder <:(
ML> Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo),
ML> said to Marty Leipzig
AS> Um. Dan, what is the fate of the rapist in most cases in the
AS> worldview of a Christian...the eventual, eternal fate?
ML> If he repents and is really very, very sorry?
ML> Eternity with a deity of his choice.
AS> Yes. IF.
ML> Bolshoi "if", AL.
AS> But most rapists become repeat offenders, if offered the opportunity.
ML> Do you have statistics to support this claim?
RS> Asking Al for facts?
I had a major attack of the sillies. Mea bolshoi culpa.
AS> "Neither do I judge you. Go, and sin no more." You have to turn from
AS> the sin to show you are in earnest. Oh, you can fall occasionally, but
AS> rape's not one of those things that I would consider an occasional
AS> fall. It's a deliberate act of violence. It's like saying you're
AS> sorry you're a killer...and then going out and shooting someone.
AS> It puts the lie to your very words.
ML> No matter. Just repent and be very, very sorry on your
ML> death bed (gurney, chair, scaffold, whatever) and
ML> *POOF*, instant eternal enhancement with your favorite
ML> deity.
RS> Which is why Hitler himself may be in Heaven right now . . .
Nope. He's rapidly returning to primary particles somewhere over
in Europe.
... Belief, believe, believes...conjugates of the verb "to blindly accept"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Welcome to the state of TAXES.
|Date: 26 Dec 96 17:58:26
EID:b260 219a8f40
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Al Schroeder <:(
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very
ML> unusual. Might it be that we're being set up for a
ML> grand Hardyesque jape?
RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
RS> jape . . .
Great minds think alike. I was reviewing that hypothesis
telephonically with Dr. Glodbreg the other day.
As the old geologist likes to note: "Time will tell."
... 24th Rule of Creationism: Claim Velikovsky was a genius.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:01:03
EID:a2bb 219a9020
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to David
Worrell
DW>> He probably has to wear diapers by this point.
ML> Depends.
DW> How did I know one of you would say that?
AS> Because you're Pampering him? Now, give him a big Huggie...
He just Luvs that.
... Do radio atheists say "Send in your money & be saved?"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:56
EID:1e5d 219a90c0
J.J. Hitt, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JH> On Dec 15 07:24 96, Marty Leipzig of 1:106/113 wrote:
DC>> No, they will be not real 'Jews for Jesusians'. Must have
DC>> to do with something about the 'J' at the beginning.
ML> They would have to be "Yews for Yehovah", but trees don't
ML> often tithe.
JH> But they make good Pews.
With lots of splinters.
... Solar may be bolder, but nukes do it all night.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:11:18
EID:5338 219a9160
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Richard
Smith
DC> On (23 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
RS> SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait
a
RS> SA> minute....
js> Out of obedience to His Father.
RS> DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
DC> You nailed that one right on!
That's just what you get for hanging around all day.
... And this is your brain over-easy with a side of bacon, toast & coffee.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: Something I found
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:59:47
EID:4224 219a9760
NASH, Ogden
It is common knowledge to every schoolboy and even every Bachelor of Arts,
That all sin is divided into two parts.
One kind of sin is called a sin of commission, and that is very important,
And it is what you are doing when you are doing something you ortant,
And the other kind of sin is just the opposite and is called a sin of omission
and is equally bad in the eyes of all right-thinking people, from Billy
Sunday to Buddha,
And it consists of not having done something you shudda.
I might as well give you my opinion of these two kinds of sin as long as,
in a
way, against each we are pitting them,
And that is, don't bother your head about sins of commission because
however sinful, they must at least be fun or else you wouldn't be
committing them.
It is the sin of omission, the second kind of sin,
That lays eggs under your skin.
The way you get really painfully bitten
Is by the insurance you haven't taken out and the checks you haven't added
up
the stubs of and the appointments you haven't kept and the bills you
haven't paid and the letters you haven't written.
Also, about sins of omission there is one particularly painful lack of beauty,
Namely, it isn't as though it had been a riotous red letter day or night
every
time you neglected to do your duty;
You didn't get a wicked forbidden thrill
Every time you let a policy lapse or forgot to pay a bill;
You didn't slap the lads in the tavern on the back and loudly cry Whee,
Let's all fail to write just one more letter before we go home, and this
round of unwritten letters is on me.
No, you never get any fun
Out of the things you haven't done,
But they are the things I do not like to be amid,
Because the suitable things you didn't do give you a lot more trouble than
the unsuitable things you did.
The moral is that it is probably better not to sin at all, but if some kind
of
sin you must be pursuing,
Well, remember to do it by doing rather than by not doing.
-- "Portrait of the Artist as a Prematurely Old Man"
... "Ha-ha! It's just one big, sunny, fun-filled Bataan death march!"-Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 28 Dec 96 05:14:13
EID:f878 219c29c0
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
Ceppa
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (23 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait a
SA> minute....
js> Out of obedience to His Father.
DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
DC> You nailed that one right on!
RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one home . . .
One little pun and you run it to the Hilti.
... "Beware the Tate's compass, for he who has a Tate's is lost!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading incomprehension
|Date: 28 Dec 96 05:17:18
EID:896f 219c2a20
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Nate Cookson
DM> Nate Cookson said "READING INCOMPREHENSION" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> Your not having much of a mind to begin with, I do not
DM> imagine that it would. However, I should like to see some
DM> evidence to back up your claims that:
DM> a. I am incapable of handling a discussion with the
DM> likes of you.
DM> b. Mr. Smith is my "second string."
DM> c. Mr. Smith is acting here on my orders.
NC>
NC> We'll to answer "B" and "C" it was obvious... Your second string
NC> was jumping in for your defense... If you can handle things
NC> on your own then why must all your friends jump in to save you
NC> from the heat? Seems if they felt you could handle the likes of
NC> me, there isn't any need to dop pile on someone who challenges your
NC> thoughts or ideas...
DM> You apparently have no idea the way a public echo works. Any
DM> time something stupid is said, anyone who feels like it may respond.
DM> The fact that more than one person here finds your effusions stupid
DM> and risible does not mean that these persons are engaged in some
DM> sort of cabal against you. You impied that I had commanded Mr. Smith
DM> to act on my behalf, and I should like to see some support for that.
DM> Actually, I should like to see some evidence that your attempts at
DM> vituperation generate any "heat" that anyone might need saving from,
DM> but I expect that that is rather beyond you.
DM> Around here, dog (or, if you will, "dop") piles will form
DM> whenever us dogs feel like it.
Actually, Don, when I first read Nate's petite rant, I thought
that when he typed "dop piles" that he may actually be a
lapadarist and having a smidge of fun via wordplay. Of course,
in continuing to read his verbal effluvia, I realize that it
was in actuality just a trifling typo and the only rocks, polished or
otherwise, with which he has contact are nestled, albeit rather loosely,
between his ears.
... An idea is not responsible for fools who believe in it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 28 Dec 96 05:37:44
EID:f9c7 219c2ca0
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
AS> Restrictions on handguns the same way we restrict submachine guns.
ML> Looks like that caveat is lost on the Drug Cartels. Very
ML> effective, restricting Uzis and the like.
AS> But people are rarely shot by Uzis.
Not according to my, and the DEA's, statistics.
AS> They are usually hit by the
AS> "Saturday Night Special" type of gun.
Nonsense, Al. A SNS is defined as a "inexpensive, poorly
constructed revolver". Semi-autos and full autos abound more in
the hands of the criminal element than revolvers.
AS> Now, I noticed in the other
AS> posts you mentioned the Texas law, about concealed weapons, and
AS> certainly that is a different way to do it, which also might work.
Seems to have here, and in 3 or 4 other locales which have
enacted similar laws.
AS> Perhaps we should make it rather like learning to drive, which is also
AS> using a potentially deadly weapon...
That's the way it is; you must take a course and pass the
proficiency test (which, admittedly, even most carbon based
life forms with an IQ exceeding room temperature could - but it
does exclude certain more benighted individuals.)
AS> Marty, you rarely can do anything with a handgun save kill another
AS> human being.
ML> So? They make holes in paper targets and cause some hilarious
ML> physics demonstrations. The point being, most anything can (and
ML> usually is) misused. Witness computers (which can be a
ML> marvelous teaching aid) in the hands of fundies.
AS>
AS> Yes. A wonderful spreader of information...or MISinformation.
Cast a gander at the Internet and do a Web search for "God".
Simply amazing that these people can operate a computer, much
less exchange gasses autonomically without daily coaching.
AS> They are rarely helpful in hunting (please note the
AS> rarely) the way rifles are,
ML> You narrowly escaped my tale of the Russian Boar hunt in Uvalde
ML> County, Texas. We go handgunning for hogs every year.
AS> I learned my lesson with you, Marty.
That is wise.
AS> I will NEVER
Ah, ah!
AS> (oops, doing it
AS> again...rarely.) make blanket statements to you again.
That's better.
AS> After you
AS> alone were able to give me an example of a society without a belief
in
AS> the supernatural or an afterlife.
Who, BTW, are currently being given the National Geographic
treatment. They find it rather unbelievable that someone is
making such a brouhaha over them. Should be out sometime in
1998, or so I'm told.
AS> and rifles can also be used to protect the
AS> home,
ML> Pucky de cheval! Rifles and handguns are terrible home defense
ML> weapons (they, like the energizer bunny, keep going and going
ML> and going...). A short barreled 12 or 10 gauge with 000 chill
ML> buckshot followed by a rifled deer slug is the best, bar none,
ML> home defense weapon (in fact, it's an original point and click
ML> interface).
AS>
AS> Yes. My mother in law has opened a new business in rural Mississippi.
AS> She's the best shot in the county, and has a shotgun just ready for
AS> anyone who might try anything.
That's the beauty of shotguns; one doesn't need to be a crack
shot and the "ka-chunk, ca-chunk" sound of a slug being jacked
in (a most unmistakeable sound) has, in itself, a great
deterrant value.
AS> and are MORE useful, not less, than handguns if a dictatorship
AS> arose and we needed to foment a rebellion.
ML> Not true, you're comparing apples with automatics, again.
ML> Rifles are long-reach weapons, suitable for sniping, and
ML> general harassment. Handguns are for when the situation calls
ML> for some up close and personal interdiction.
AS> A soldier at war. Doesn't he use his rifle much more than his
AS> revolver?
Depends. In the infantry, a rifle has precisely zero use in
tunnels, buildings (like apartments, where snipers and the like
like to sneak) or other close-quarter situations. As buddy Bob,
the jarhead lawyer (and owner of the deer lease where I
annually harvest venison jerky on the hoof) tells me: "Your
rifle is a tool, your sidearm is your friend". After three
tours in the Nam, I tend to accept what he says about matters
military as truthful.
ML> Merely two different tools for two different jobs. Odd, I don't
ML> see people demonizing claw and ball peen hammers.
AS>
AS> I'm not demonizing it. Just suggesting a possible solution.
By casting an almost supernatural aura around the things?
Cripes, Al. They're just machines, in this case, a very
specialized machine. They don't bite, talk back or leap out of
the dark on their own accord and hunt you.
AS> The handguns are too easily concealable.
ML> So are knives, acid bottles, axe handles, ice picks, short
ML> standards, tonfas, ad infinitum. Your point?
AS>
AS> The handguns, however, have a greater range than any of them,
Acid can be slipped into the most unusual of situations. In
fact, taking it one step further, I remember a case a few years
back where some high school type swiped KNO3 from the chemistry
lab and spiked a rivals lunch (he thought it was poisonous, in
reality, it's better known as "saltpeter".) There's a
long-distance dedication for you.
AS> and
AS> require little skill to use at a distance. (Unlike knives, although
at
AS> close quarters it might not matter as much....)
True. Truth be told, I fear an idiot with a straight razor (now
seen making a comeback in local gangs) more than firearms.
AS> Last year, a kid in a wheelchair, on a dare, smuggled his mother's
AS> handgun into a school locally.
ML> Yeah, those damn kids; such scofflaws.
AS> Another kid was allowed to hold it.
AS> The kid pulled the trigger by accident. He killed a third kid.
ML> So tell me, Al. Just which of the 25,000 gun laws currently on
ML> the books would have prevented this?
AS>
AS> If easily concelable weapons were not available, the kid would have
AS> had to smuggle in a rifle in his wheelchair. Harder to do.
Or make do with something else. There is a law in Texas
(although not heavily enforced) that targets the parents when
such events occur. They prosecute the parent for allowing a gun
to be accessed by a minor (child endangerment) and for the
crime committed with the handgun (as an accessory).
AS> That third kid could have been any of mine. (Or yours, if they are
AS> still of school age. Or anyone's here.)
ML> No, Al, not mine. The know full well what a gun is and what it
ML> is for (my eldest daughter took second place in the silhouette
ML> competition for her age group at the range last month...I only
ML> took 4'th in the Master's tourney.). Al, I make damn sure my
ML> kids know what guns can do, particularly since I possess
ML> numerous handguns (I collect large caliber weapons as an
ML> investment), shotguns and long guns. Of course, most are locked
ML> in my gun safe and all have trigger locks; but I don't go for
ML> this "bury your head in the sand and keep mysterious these
ML> guns" attitude. My daughters know about guns and know that they
ML> are not toys nor for playing with. Now that I've de-mistifyed
ML> them, they wouldn't give them a second thought (although
ML> aforementioned daughter can field strip her Browning .40 faster
ML> than Daddy can even kick the clip out of one of my Glocks..)
AS>
AS> I agree information is the best defense, but I think you are missing
AS> the point (or more likely, I didn't explain it completely.) One kid
AS> brings the gun, hands it to the other kid, who in
AS> turn...accidentally...shoots the third kid. The third kid was across
AS> the room, not even looking in that direction. He never saw it coming.
AS> Even if he had been the most gunaware individual this side of John
AS> Wesley Hardin (the TRUE fastest gun in the west) he couldn't have
AS> stopped it.
So very true, Al. But, you seem to be missing the point as
well. The guns are already there; what you are proposing is
tantamount to slamming the barn door after the lot of the
Equidae have scampered. Just like you can't recall a fired
bullet, you can't unmake all those guns. The guns are already
there, Al, now we must deal with that reality; instead of
wishing that they didn't exist.
AS> I could see specific licenses to carry handguns...for women in
AS> high-risk professions, for bonded agents, etc.
ML> Or citizens who pony up the registration fee, and pass the test;
ML> like the one here in Texas.
AS>
AS> My father's died, and my mother's uninterested in guns, so I was not
AS> aware of Texas' laws about that. (They live/lived in Houston.)
It's here, enacted for over a year.
AS> Or for people who
AS> travel the world in high-risk areas, like you, Marty.
ML> Hey, I freely admit to packing heat. Always have (I do travel
ML> to some fairly remote areas domestically) and will continue
ML> (99% of the time you cannot tell that I'm carrying, and I don't
ML> bother to flaunt it. The permit's for carrying a CONCEALED
ML> weapon. So I do.) To me, it's just another tool, like my
ML> Brunton or geologist's hammer. Neither more mundane nor
ML> more glamorous.
AS> Right, and YOU I would trust to use it correctly, as I would trust,
AS> say, my mother-in-law (who would probably enjoy a shooting match with
AS> you) to do so. And my speaking son, although we don't keep weapons at
AS> the house, has learned to use guns at camps under experts.
Again, thank you for evidencing my point that education is the
key.
AS> I don't like this conclusion. I love the Constitution and
AS> understood exactly why the right to bear arms is in there. But we are
AS> killing our kids by the hundreds
ML> Oh, come on, Al. Let's color the issue with a nice sloppy,
ML> soppy, syrupy coat of emotion. How many are killed in automobile
ML> wrecks? By fires? By drugs?
AS> A great deal in each. And we restrict driving to licenses, fires in
AS> some metropolitan areas, and certainly drugs, all the time.
ML> Weep for the children, Al, but don't use them as a pawn in some
ML> emotive semantic game.
AS>
AS> Well, I'm sorry, but I think it fair to say most of say, the gang
AS> fights are between children...in the sense of not legally adults yet.
True, to a point. I've personally been involved with (in an
adversarial position) "children" of 18, 19, and 20 years of age
in gangs. It's not JUST children, Al. It's some very
misbegotten and woebegotten young adults as well.
AS> to guarentee our ability to fight a
AS> dictatorship which may never come.
ML> They'd have a rough time in this neck of the woods. In fact, if
ML> we're ever party to a herd of loose rampaging rhinoceri, I've
ML> got that covered as well.
AS> I bet you have.
I'm a mere collector compared to Dave across the street. He
could outfit a country with his collection.
AS> I see the murder by violence rates
AS> of European countries, and wonder if it's worth the cost.
ML> Cast a gander at the root cause of a large proportion of those
ML> deaths. Religiously motivated. Shall we ban the Bible now or
ML> later, Al?
AS>
AS> THAT's been tried before, too.... Although certainly Northern
AS> Ireland is an exception, I think it fair to say that most European
AS> countries have a lower murder by violence rate than the US.
Does that include Russia? If so, you're dead wrong.
ML> They're killed in myriad other ways and at a far more rapid
ML> clip than by handguns. So, Al, what do you want, to wrap them
ML> all in a cocoon?
AS> No; but it doesn't mean we can't remove an obvious source of danger.
OK, agreed. How? We've identified the problem, so what's the
solution?
AS> But we can lower the odds, by making
AS> the weapons stand out, and not so easily concealable.
ML> I prefer a dose of education to your trying to legislate
ML> behavior away. Your method has proven to be an abysmal
ML> failure; mine has not. In fact, it's the most efficacious
ML> weapon we have [pardon upcoming pun] in our arsenal.
AS> Then we should make owning a firearm a matter of passing a test,
Past tense. What of all those guns already out there? What of
the criminal element that rarely follows teh letter of the law?
AS> and
AS> for one to always have to undergo education (similar to driver
AS> education). And I have no problem with that. Although I want the
AS> education to also stress how to SAFELY store guns when not in use.
AS> (I.E., locked, not loaded, etc.)
Education does seem to be the key; that's what I stress in the
gun safety courses I've taught.
... Betazoid wedding dress... Can't beat the price.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:09:12
EID:4320 219c3120
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Only if you have covalent bands.
AS> I try to keep current...
ML> I hear you play the guitar, put the ampere.
AS> Excuse me while I read a DC comic book...
While listening to the new AC/DC CD.
AS> That's a shocking answer...
ML> Need new power, must revolt.
AS> You could solve it peacefully...have the people choose their
AS> leaders...have them run and debate, and let the people choose...you
AS> know, an electron.
But then, they might end up with someone like Neutron
Gingerich.
... "Man has the one true religion. Several of them!" -- Twain
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:18:20
EID:4eb5 219c3240
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
DC> On (24 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to David Worrell...
ML> Yeah, but squirrel pelts and loads of empty beer cans are
ML> not considered legal tender.
DW> They are if you're a resident of the abovementioned states.
ML> Damn, by that standard, Staal's a fucking tycoon.
DC> Marty, you mispelled 'buffoon'.
That was next.
Followed immediately thereafter by "poltroon".
... As King Arthur said: "Some days it all seems so feudal."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:19:44
EID:f9fd 219c3260
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
DC> On (24 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to ALL...
ML> Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
ML> karate and will soon be impressing us all with his abnormal IQ.
DC> If he responds to all the "400 personal messages a day", he'll make
DC> Al Schoeder look like all of Al's fingers are broken and Al's
DC> responding by typing with his nose, broken as well, of course.
Do the words "Get a life." have any meaning to those of this bent?
... And now, fresh from the sack of Europe, Ghengis Khan & the Hordelets
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:20:45
EID:2c25 219c3280
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Lynda Bustilloz
DC> On (22 Dec 96) Lynda Bustilloz got back to Dan Ceppa...
LB> Brett and Dan were killing time yakking about Xstians v Sinners =
CG> If Sinners are no longer human, then it must be OK to shoot them?
BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
LB> ;)
DC> Don't thank me! It was Brett that came up with the original
DC> scenario. I only took it to it's logical conclusion. Whether
DC> he understands it still remains to be seen.
DC> Care to bet that he says, "God is not constrained by logic"?
His followeres certainly aren't.
... "Stupid argument? You're soaking in it!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: equal rights
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:23:24
EID:2f5d 219c32e0
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Martin
Goldberg
DW> In a msg of , Marty Leipzig wrote you:
MG>> I bet he lets them smoke mexican cigars there.
ML> Of course, of course. But, to his detriment, he also holds
ML> bimonthly "scotch tastings".
DW> This reminds me. I was bored at my aunt's house yesterday, and picked
DW> up a copy of Food & Wine. I noticed a sidebar to an article about
DW> entertaining. The sidebar dealt with avoiding hangovers. It seems that
DW> bourbon has the highest content of "congoners" (I may not have spelled
DW> that right) of any liquor made.
You're right, you blew it. It's "congeners". But it's not an
exclusive to bourbon; any brown liquor (scotch, brandy, etc.)
has them as by-products from the fermentation process.
DW> Congoners are one of the substances
DW> that make hangovers so unpleasant.
So is over-consumption.
DW> You almost have to pity the bourbon drinkers, don't you?
If you overdo bourbon, there's hell to pay the next day. If you
overdo scotch, you go through hell holding your breath trying
to choke down that concoction of humic acid and fish piss, and
get a hangover the next day as well.
At least with the bourbon, you actually enjoy the process.
... "Oh, baster, said Pooh, remarking on Mary's method of insemination.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:43:06
EID:d2fe 219c6d60
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DW> In a message to Chris Green you wrote:
CG>> Though thinking about it, anything missing the
CG>> Missippi Delta would tend to follow the coastal
CG>> plain.
ML> That's "Mississippi", Herr Mensa.
DW> Unless, of course, he is actually from Mississippi. Then he spelled
it
DW> like most Mississippians pronounce it.
He didn't spell it : "Mizzipp."
... "A double Rock-n-Rye and seven Carlings, please." - Boon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:54:25
EID:5534 219c36c0
Michael Hardy, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Doug Lee <=-
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper. He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
DL>
DL>
DL> Is that so MIke? You're now in the "agnostic camp" as Al puts it?
DL> That would be quite a departure from the Mike Hardy I knew from a
DL> year ago.
DL> If it is true, why the change??
ML> "By the twitching of my thumb, something trollish this way
ML> comes."
MH> :-) You think so?
I do, until evidence suggests otherwise.
MH> Sorry to disappoint you, but ...
Not at all. I was a tad curious, though, where you had nipped
off to and what had transpired during that time. Must have been
something rather seismic for you to have such a change of view.
Care to elaborate? (If not, I understand perfectly if you tell
me to MYOB.)
... Every crowd has a silver lining.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: physics comedy
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:56:47
EID:b480 219c3700
Sue Alexander, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Sue Alexander <=-
ML> (Could you please send me your address again? Total cranial
ML> flatus, I cannot find it...Thanks.)
SA>
SA> AARRGH!! Not again!
SA>
SA> I don't remember giving you my address, so I presume you would
SA> like Ms Armstrongs. I live just off the shore of Lake Mendota...you
SA> know, the one that had the Statue of Liberty "dropped" in it many years
SA> ago?
I'm suffering from cheese withdrawal. Be gentle.
SA> Or was that after your time here?
Sheesh. I'm gonna need a scorecard to keep all the SA>'s
straight around here. Talk about cranial flatus...
SA> I did find her address, however...
SA>
SA> S. Armstrong
SA> 570 Church St. #8
SA> Windsor, Ontario
SA> N9A 4S9
SA> Canada
Bolshoi spaseebah. I promise to archive this message and never,
ever make that mistake again, Sean.
... Oh, shit! I did it again!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 28 Dec 96 06:59:34
EID:3537 219c3760
Judith Bandsma, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
ML> Some people just can't take a joke.
JB> I wish you could have known the girls in the troop I led.
JB> They always put a sign on their cookie booth 'made with real Girl
JB> Scouts'. Or their reactions to the naked guy in the window across from
JB> the Juliette Lowe house when we were waiting for our tour. (He was
JB> waving at them...and he WASN'T using his hand ) [true story]
"What's that?"
"Hmmmm....looks like a penis, only smaller.."
JB> Remarks one, 'where's my Playgirl? '
JB> Yells another, 'hey, honey, I've seen better than that in the shower
JB> room'.
JB> Snide asides from the rest.
"Gee, is it THAT cold out here?"
JB> And to think, mothers actually trusted me with their daughters.
My eldest was approached by a friend asking her to join the
local chapter. She begged off, claiming something to the effect
that she wouldn't join a club that would let her be a member.
She likes Marx Brothers movies as much as her old man.
... I'm a Marxist with a Groucho attitude.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: mustard bath
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:05:15
EID:fb41 219c38a0
Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DR> Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person need?!
CJ> Bread and sardines.
ml> Beer and cigars.
FR> Diet Coke and popcorn.
Ah, the feast of doom.
... "Meanwhile, at Jackie Chan Technical College ..."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:07:20
EID:facc 219c38e0
Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
iJcJ> I will pray for your souls.
FR> Help me, Marty! I'm scared.
Quakering in your boots, no doubt.
ml> Why not trill instead? Hell, any idiot can pray.
FR> He sang for us long enough... He'll sing for us again.
He's done his swansong. Brave Sir Jesse ran away.
... 21st Rule of Creationism: Always appear to know more than any expert.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: equal rights
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:08:18
EID:1d07 219c3900
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Of course, of course. But, to his detriment, he also holds
ML> bimonthly "scotch tastings".
MG> A man of good taste. I'm certain that they are packed butt to pecker
MG> trying to get a sip of ambrosia.
My, my, what *vivid* terminology.
You realize my hesitation to comment further...
ML> It takes a quartet of fortnights to shovel out the smell
ML> them.
MG> Drinking bourbon is kinda like having a glass of iced tea....and then
MG> fidning a dead cockroach in the bottom.
Better than the dead animals they use to create scotch.
... BEER ... It's not just for Breakfast anymore!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:10:20
EID:3f51 219c3940
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>> Where's John Prewett when you need him?
ML> Frozen in time.
MG> Another one tht should drink bourbon...for the anti freeze effect.
Indeed. Obviously all the cheap scotch he's imbibed has rotted
what passes for his brain.
... You can fool some of the people some of the time & jerk the rest off
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:44:19
EID:335c 219c6d80
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> I also know, unlike certain immunology types, what it means
ML> be a good host.
MG> Host, schmost....you never brought your rock picking ass down here to
MG> the Glodbreg Estate.
Dallas is north of Houston, that'd be "up", oh geographically
challenged one.
MG> I'm certain that we can get the dog to cook up a
MG> quick batch of Kentucky's Finest for you.
You mean he's filled all his ClanMcWoof orders for the month?
... Don't drink and drive. You might spill your drink.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Cartoon
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:44:37
EID:b66f 219c6d80
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>> I am beginning to think you a bigger moron than I thought at
MG>> first.
ML> Is that possible?
MG> Yes.
And still be breathing?
... "Nullius In Verba" -- motto of the Royal Society of London, 1661
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:20:22
EID:cdb6 219c3a80
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SQ> Salue, Marty!
SQ> Martis dies December 24 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad ALL:
DC>> You are nasty, very nasty. If it keeps the likes of Martinez off
DC>> of the streets, you are elligible for saint hood.
CG>> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around
400
CG>> personal messages a day,
CG>> I run a charity as well,
SQ> Yeah, but _I_ gave away my last can of Vernors last week. Nyah nyah
SQ> nyah!
But did you pay Mensa to check your IQ? Hmmm?
... All right! (shouting) THE CHURCH POLICE !!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Fido shits again
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:21:09
EID:e7bf 219c3aa0
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DM> Marty Leipzig said "Fido shits again" to Don Martin,
DM> adding:
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
JB> me know.
DM> [Corporal Klink voice]: I saw nussing, nussing. . . .
ML>
ML> Actually, it was Colonel Klink; but Sargeant Schultz was the
ML> one who uttered those immortal lines.
ML>
ML> (Gad. Have we really sunk so low as to be discussing the
ML> attributes of Hogan's Heroes?)
DM>
DM> I can at least point to my ignorance above as evidence
DM> that I never really watched the thing . . .
Hmmm... sounds like De Nile.
... I am Staal of Borg. They threw me out, no collective consciousness.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Biosphere
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:45:20
EID:a30d 219c6da0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Judith Bandsma <=-
>JB> BioSphere (II?) Flopped big time. Of course
>JB> there is also a question about internal
>JB> sabotage by one or more of the participants.
DR> Yeah, but they got to wear real cool jumpsuits!
Red and white, just like their sponsor's corporate colors.
ML> They kept smuggling in fritos and twinkies (really).
DR> And when a woman was injured, she left the BS (BioSphere)
DR> for treatment, pigged out at a McDonald's, and brought a
DR> bag of hamburgers in with her. Tee hee. So much for
DR> total isolation.
"OK, that's two Big Wacs, A Quarter Flounder with cheese, 2
apple pies and a total isolation to go. You want fries with
that?"
JB> Status? inconclusive.
ML> Status? WOPWAT (What A Phenomenal Waste Of Time).
DR> Or the time their carbom monoxide filters failed, and
DR> they accepted an atmosphere transplant from outside.
That'd work well on the moon.
... Welcome to the wonderful world of technology. Enjoy your stay!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:24:41
EID:386c 219c3b00
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to All <=-
ML> Food for thought department.
ML>
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML>
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications
ML> after a two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML>
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving
ML> God?
DR> The most popular gods around the western world, Yahweh
DR> and Jesus, don't give a shit about justice, kindness,
DR> and love. Tens of thousands of children starving to
DR> death every year proves that.
"Mysterious works the ways of the Lord."
Real mysterious. In real life we call it genocide.
... Excellent day for drinking heavily. Spike water cooler.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Staal wants to know
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:26:29
EID:4566 219c3b40
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Martin Goldberg <=-
>>MG> Yeah...if Jimbo started thinking..well...let's
>>MG> not discuss it. It's too macabre to talk about.
>>FR> I would start looking for the pods.
>MG> That's just Terrifid.
ML> A little sea water will take care of that problem.
DR> I thought it was rain that did away with the infestation.
Nurp. Hosing 'em with seawater is the way the lighthouse keeper
did them in (which begs the question, how can any respiring
organism, other than fundies, get bushwacked by a shrubbery?)
... Extreme good-naturedness borders on weakness of character. Avoid it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 28 Dec 96 07:27:52
EID:bbaf 219c3b60
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
>DR> Les Nessman reported the incident. "I can see the
>DR> helicopter. The door is opening. . . . there seems
>DR> to be something. . . something. . . they're throwing
>DR> brown things out the helicopter door. . . . they
>DR> look like. . . . look like. . . . they look like
>DR> turkeys! Turkeys are raining down on the shopping
>DR> center! Oh, the humanities! I can't. . . I can't
>DR> go on, ladies and gentlemen. . . ."
ML> You left out the BEST line:
ML>
ML> "The TURkeys are hitting the ground LIKE bags of WET
ML> cement!"
DR> [SPEWING POPCORN!]
Eeewww. Messy.
DR> Bewah hahahahahah! I didn't recall that (it's been years
DR> since I saw the show). Damn, that's funny.
I'll never forget the scene where Les is doing his best Garry
Marshall imitation (hand on ear, mike in hand), looking upward,
downward, downward, and utters the immortal line.
DR> Poor turkeys.
DR> Er, pour turkeys now, I guess.
>DR> I loved that show!
ML> "Booger!" J. Fever, MD.
DR> "Yeah Bailey! You and Jennifer get used to each other's
DR> bodies!" -- Les
I liked the time when Fever and Venus were supposed to get
loaded on the air as part of an anti-drunk driving program.
Venus got trashed, but Dr. Johnny actually got more lucid.
"Well, it used to be a hobby of mine...."
... "Check it out--they worship the Munsingwear penguin!"-Joel
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: A brief respite . . .
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:14:06
EID:3269 219c49c0
Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Richard
Smith
rs> Well, everyone, I have got to go away for a week or two.
FR> "...going away..." Are you pregnant?
Just a little bit...
... Why do we seem to operate best at a 90 degree angle to reality?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:20:04
EID:84d0 219c4a80
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Bill Forseth
DM> Bill Forseth said "Sola Scriptura" to Robert Burke,
DM> adding:
RB> We should also teach our children the pain, horror, and pain of
RB> atheism.
BF> WTF do you know about atheism?
DM>
DM> Nobody knows, nor is ever likely to: he appears to have
DM> disappeared in a puff of "IS NOT!" upon writing that proud
DM> assertion.
DM>
DM> Perhaps he is still at the proctologist's, waiting to
DM> have the door knob removed.
DM>
Along with his pointy cranium.
... Appleton: whadda expect from a guy named 'Laurie'?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Billyboy has his head...
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:46:22
EID:3e11 219c6dc0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
>>ML> Hardly. I responded in a way that I knew even a
>>ML> blightered asshole like you could understand.
>>ML> Further, if you want to be spoon-fed, go ask you
>>ML> keeper; instead of begging your betters to
>>ML> explain all that you don't and can't understand.
>DR> I just received three messages from the clueless
>DR> little fundy shit (multi-redundant). In each, his
>DR> ONLY reply to every other statement of fact I
>DR> uttered was on the level of "dick breath," "shit
>DR> head," and "ass hole." His method of "argument"
>DR> reminds me of first grade when the teacher was
>DR> out of the room.
ML> It's funny watching Billyboy's MO. He'll make a
ML> bombing run (armed with a new penchant for lemmings,
ML> or pederasty, or excrement); receive his
ML> comedownance, and then he disappears for a couple
ML> of weeks.
DR> Almost as if he were only being let out of his padded cell
DR> one or two weekends a month.
That's all the electrons he can pop for. He's hoping to get
promoted to burger-flipper third class; then he'll be able to
pony up for a twice a week bombing run.
ML> It must take him that long to extract his toes from
ML> his mouth to formulate his idiotic replies.
DR> Part of that time must be used to discovering his toes
DR> ARE in his mouth in the first place.
Among other dangly appendages.
... "Dave, my mind. It's going. Hey! Let me tell you about Jesus."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Billyboy has his head...
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:28:00
EID:3e11 219c4b80
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
DR> ... up his ass (as usual).
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Bill Wolff <=-
>>>BW> In your dreams Marty. Nobody ever produced a quote
>>>BW> from me where I called Carl Sagan a creationist.
>>ML> Odd, I seem to recall that David Rice, Doc Goldberg and
>>ML> Dan Ceppa have done just that a number of times.
>DR> Only fifteen or twenty times.
ML> Is he naturally that moronic or did he take classes?
DR> He took said clases as a $cientology org no doubt.
In other words, he PAID to be this stupid. Hmmm...reminds me
of one or another goof in these parts who was whowho'ing about
*paying* Mensa to check his IQ for him.
The act rather negates the end.
>>ML> I guess with your blinders on so tight, you just keep
>>ML> missing those damning posts. Don't blame us for your
>>ML> tunnel vision and lack of foresight.
>DR> All Fundy cults should be required to carry vision care
>DR> insurance for their v\i\c\t\m\s\ members.
ML> Nope. They'd need medical insurance. A "blinderectomy"
ML> is a surgical procedure.
DR> Many ex-fundies got that proceedure repaired. But always
DR> AFTER the brain-reduction surgery had been treated first.
Yet another reson microsurgery was invented.
... And all the fundies parade to their God.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Pizza Warrior!
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:31:04
EID:66a3 219c4be0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
>DR> And besides: the dog needed the exercise. So did the
>DR> pizza delivery boy....
ML> Damn, it was a funny episode. The pizza guy later
ML> (over a friendly beer) tells me that he's scared
ML> to death of any dog (caniphobia?). Even his gal's
ML> peekawhatever sends shivers up his spine.
DR> I can cure that with an e-meter....
Just a case of bad engrams.
ML> He was in a hurry that night and just wanted to
ML> deliver the pizza and scoot back to the store for
ML> another run (he tells me that he usually rings the
ML> folk's bell and takes 10 or so steps back, but
ML> today he was in a hurry and right at ground zero...)
ML> "Ding dong". I open the door, $20 in one hand and
ML> LadyMcBeast by the collar in the other. He looks
ML> up just in time to see 120 kg of dog, a befurred
ML> owner and hear a deep, resounding "WOOF!"
DR> What a coincidence. The very exact same thing happened
DR> to me when I went to go pick up my blind date last week.
DR> Except the date was wearing the colar....
Woof! Yer warped.
ML> Pliopleistocene instincts must have taken over. He
ML> jumped a good Michael Jordan 3' in the air, dropped
ML> the pizza, and sprinted to his idiling vehicle (I
ML> don't think his feet ever hit the ground). Funny.
ML> I never knew you could get rubber out of a Vega
ML> in all 3 gears.
DR> Wow. He must have had some canine-inducted trama as
DR> a child. And your dog is such a little thing, too....
She was just a pup in so many ways; although stature wasn't one
of them.
ML> I called the store and wanted to speak with the
ML> manager. I told him what had happened and when
ML> the chuckling died down, he said he'd send him
ML> back for the cash.
DR> HE CAME BACK?!?!?!? ROTFL!
Slowly; under protest, no doubt.
DR> "Please, boss! Please don't make me go back there!"
ML> He came back but refused to leave his car. I paid him
ML> for the pizza and added a generous tip. A week later,
ML> I again ordered a pizza and asked if this character
ML> could deliver it. He grudgingly did.
DR> Dog needed more exersize?
Stop that.
ML> He rang the doorbell and stood out on the curb. I
ML> answered the door, sans dog. He slowly inched up the
ML> walk, just as my eldest daughter came around the
ML> corner after taking Lady for her daily constitutional.
ML> I guess he figured that if a 10 year old could handle
ML> her, the dog couldn't be all that bad...
DR> Golly. What a horrible phobia to have. There's so many
DR> dogs on the planet, after all.
Indeed. And some even have 4 legs...
DR> A =REAL= atheist would have kept the pizza, turned the dog
DR> loose on him, and stripped the Vega for parts to sell in
DR> Mexico.
A +REAL+ fundy would have done much the same, but bored the
guy to death with scripture explaining that it was God's will.
... "Dave. My mind. It's gone. Now I can think like Jim Staal.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:35:12
EID:d24b 219c4c60
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to ANDREW
MASTEN
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to David Rice <=-
>DR> be "caused," something would have to previously exist
>DR> to "cause" it--- a paradox, thus a false hypothesis.
>DR> If it was "caused," it would have to be the result of
>DR> an event; since time probably did not exist "before"
>DR> the Big Bang, no events were possible--- another
>DR> paradox, thus also a false hypothesis. Any hypothesis
>DR> that yields a paradox must perforce be false, and
>DR> must be restated or discarded.
AM> If no events were possible before the big bang, then
AM> the universe shouldn't be here.
DR> You are assuming cause-and-effect.
What do you expect from somone who responds via
stimulus:response?
... "Goona get me some hubcaps for the house. It's that time." BroJam
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:37:02
EID:8191 219c4ca0
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
Ook-ook-katchew, Gwen.
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Gwenny:
ML>> Yep. Sure do. It's a place where miracles are supposed to
ML>> happen with ridiculous regularity. Odd that not a single
ML>> "miracle" stood up to scientific/medical scrutiny.
GtP>> Hell, most of it won't hold up to non-scientific scrutiny.
ML> It doesn't even stand up to a bit of healthy skepticism.
GtP> True, even my littlest kids aren't taken in. One of the disadvantages
GtP> of having a mommy who is not only at least agnostic but also studying
GtP> ceremonial magick is that you have some expectations about magick and
GtP> miracles.
Excuse me whilst I refrain from saying anything about a
certain word being misspelled. Color me eternally skeptical.
GtP> If it don't work EVERY time, it was only a coincidence.
GtP> I think the reason that ceremonial magick appeals to me is it's
GtP> scientific approach. You keep working at it until you always get the
GtP> same results every time you do a spell.
Like 100% failure?
GtP> I don't think I've got it
GtP> down right. Sometimes I get money from a prosperity spell, sometimes
GtP> I don't. About 40% of the time I get unexpected money (usually from
a
GtP> computer error in my favor) in amounts between $800 and $5000 within
a
GtP> day or two. Sometimes it's only a fiver found on the sidewalk. I
GtP> want to get it so I always large amounts.
How does it stack up against coincidence or random chance?
GtP>> A number of years ago, when I was still in the throes of Moronism,
I
GtP>> met some pentecostals at a neighbor's house. When they found out
I
GtP>> was Moron they started bragging about how they had gotten into the
GtP>> local bishop house under the guise of political canvassing and had
GtP>> "healed" his mother--a non-member--of chronic back pain.
ML> By shooting her in the foot?
GtP> Nope, they CLAIMED to have laid hands on her.
Sounds like a Class A felony - assault ain't looked at nicely.
ML> BLAM! "There, now I'll bet your back doesn't hurt nearly as
ML> much!"
GtP>
GtP>> They were very convincing, so I called Sister Graham (bishop's wife)
GtP>> and asked her. Yes, they had gotten in but no her mother-in-law was
GtP>> not healed.
ML> She wasn't? I am so shocked.
GtP> Sure. What upset me the most about the whole thing was
GtP> that they were getting into people's houses by pretending to be during
GtP> surveys or handing out political info. That seems the basest sort
of
GtP> lie. But then the "lord of this world" is the "father of lies"
GtP> according their scriptures.
Wow. If that hasn't squared the ecumenical circle, it's damn
near cubed it.
GtP>> I wonder how many folks believed their lies?
ML> Far too many.
GtP> Indeed.
I remember some incredible run-ins I had with Mormons whilst I
was in New Mexico doing the field work for my dissertation. In
fact, there are certain places there I still won't go without my
kevlar field vest.
These folks really know how to hold a grudge.
... Any properly advanced science will be indistinguishable from magic.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:44:12
EID:0503 219c4d80
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Gwenny:
ML>> "Midas" as in "muffler"; although it sometimes has the reverse
ML>> effect.
GtP>> Ahhh, to muffle the sighs of pleasures when people drink it?
ML> No. The more they have, the louder they get.
GtP> Rum works better for me.
Damn. I picked a fine time to quit drinking...
GtP>>> And speaking of fine comestibles,
ML>> Comestibles are solids. Your coffee must give my "Coonass Cajun
ML>> Voodoo Blackened Blowout Rig Java" a run for the rubles.
GtP>> Sorry. I must have posted that late. I remember thinking that that
GtP>> wasn't the word I was looking for, but solstice is always a busy
GtP>> time, so I must have sent it off without digging out the dictionary.
ML> No sweat, it was obvious from context (of course, that never
ML> stopped me...)
GtP> I know. You see, the only place I ever remember reading that was
GtP> Stranger in a Strange Land and I just finished re-reading it for the
GtP> first time in fifteen or so years. I guess I forgot after all this
GtP> time.
I wish I had some spare time for recreational reading (other
than the 'Smoke). I'm currently laboring my way through a text
on Clay Mineralogy, X-Ray Diffraction and SEM Microprobe
Techniques. Gad, any one of these is a blue-ribbon winner of
the "Insomniac Cure" division.
GtP>>> I think it's time to go give my new coffee pot it's first
GtP>>> run. . good coffee laced liberally with Bailey's.
ML>> Sheesh...do you drink that or trowel it directly into your
ML>> aorta?
GtP>>
ML> Want another piece of coffee?
GtP> No, my daughter made some for me this morning and I'm still working
on
GtP> it.
Since dangerous brown (or any other color) liquor is off my
list for a while (at least until I get this diverticulitis
under control) coffee is my only allowed hallucinogen. Odd,
only 2 pots or so and I'm seeing all the strange creatures
again that usually took a liter of ClanMcVladTheImpaler...
... Creationist? OK, we'll get someone to rip this from context for you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:51:30
EID:2ff3 219c4e60
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Chris:
CG>> You have failed to make any sense, have managed to contradict
CG>> yourself, and have totally ignored the meaning or context of the text
CG>> which you have quoted.
ML> That you do not possess the intellectual horsepower to
ML> comprehend the written word; that is not a negative mark upon
ML> my writing abilities. Set thine own house in order, Chris.
ML> Looks like you've had a bit of storm damage.
GtP> But, Marty, his intelligence is in the top 1% of humanity and he
GtP> belongs to MENSA!
Yet, he pays for that privilege.
Rather handily puts paid to all that "I'm so smart" crapola.
CG>> Go and play with Appleton; you suit each other!
ML> Appleton, like you, is merely a verbal speed bag. Now, go back
ML> to playing with yourself, boy.
GtP> Are the English allowed to do that?
Only if they don't first reject themselves.
... Born again? Hope your potty training went better the second time.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:53:05
EID:84e3 219c4ea0
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Chris:
CG>> And, unlike you, Mr Goldberg, I come within the top 1% of the human
CG>> race.
ML>> Based upon what benchmarks?
CG>> MENSA.
ML> So, how much did you pay them to be tested?
GtP> And WHAT were they testing, percentage of brain cells left??
Percentage not affliced with a monumental ego.
... "Brain and Brain! What is Brain???"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:26:28
EID:8191 219c6b40
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Don:
DM>> enough to declare war on yourself and three of the smaller counties
DM>> in Texas. Just eat your oatmeal . . .
ML> I would, it's just that oatmeal looks like it's all ready
ML> *been* eaten once.
GtP> Then you are making it wrong.
I don't think it's possible to make it right.
GtP>First, get the 5 minute kind.
5 minutes? 5 minutes? Who has the time for that?
GtP> Then
GtP> bring the water to a boil BEFORE adding the oats. Add oats, cook 3
or
GtP> 4 minutes,
Then throw away pot and eat some cold pizza...
GtP> at some real butter
Not on my diet...
GtP> and brown sugar, and enjoy. (And if you
GtP> add some raisins to the water before you boil it, it's even better)
Hmmm...I wonder if that'll work for scotch as well...
GtP> Much nicer than the library paste you get if you follow the
GtP> directions.
But not near as tasty.
... "Evolution: The fossils say no!"- Gish; "Gish is an idiot" -fossils.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Welcome to the state of TAXES.
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:33:45
EID:5da0 219c6c20
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Michael
Hardy
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Marty Leipzig <=-
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Al Schroeder <:(
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very
ML> unusual. Might it be that we're being set up for a
ML> grand Hardyesque jape?
RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
RS> jape . . .
AS> Should I tell them I've been trolling all this time, and am a
AS> confirmed atheist?
You're not. Atheists don't need confirmation.
AS> They spend years debunking your stand, and when you agree, they
AS> look for a catch...
Always and forever are the ways of skepticism.
... "From the author of the best selling horror novel, "The Bible"...."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:35:57
EID:7649 219c6c60
Gerry Danen, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Gwenny
the Pooh
GP> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
GP> Gwenny
GD> And who will be your authority when you stand before God Almighty
GD> after you die? I'm sorry but I feel very sorry for you. You may just
GD> feel wonderful about yourself right now, but think of the
GD> hereafter...and don't for a moment about reincarnation. It ain't real!
Neither is your "hereafter".
... "Acceptable or not, sir, it is the truth." - Data
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 29 Dec 96 06:20:54
EID:b98d 219d3280
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to ALL <=-
ML> And I'll wager next that he's 1.95 m tall, a black belt in
ML> karate and will soon be impressing us all with his abnormal IQ.
CG> Nope, 5'10", did a bit of boxing in the army if that is any help.
On December 26, no doubt. Or at the PX?
... Be kind to your inferiors, if you can find any.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:05:23
EID:0689 219d40a0
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Chris Green <=-
CG> I didn't know that South Carolina was in 'Hurricane Alley'?
ML> Ken the name "Hugo"?
CG> Victor?
No; hurricane.
CG> Though thinking about it, anything missing the Missippi Delta would
CG> tend to follow the coastal plain.
ML> That's "Mississippi", Herr Mensa.
CG> Correct. On the ball, Herr Leipzig. Join the human race and make
CG> mistakes. :-)
Join the intelligentsia, make fewer and revel less in the ones
you make.
ML> And anything missing the Mississippi Delta (i.e., New Orleans)
ML> would follow the Gulf Coastal Plain; which is a damn sight far
ML> removed from the Atlantic Coastal Plain; except for this wee
ML> bit around Sloppy Joe's in Key West.
CG> Doesn't look all that far on my world map, only about 2", and looking
CG> at the calculator that makes it around 340 miles to the Atlantic Coast
CG> of Florida.
Wrong again, Chris. From New Orleans to St. Augustine,
Florida, (the nearest Atlantic Coast of Florida from New
Orleans) is a distance (shortest great circle route) of 470 miles
(756.4 km). Of course, of course; I tend to forget how Anglocentric
you Brits are. The navel of the universe centers around London and
anything more than 400 km distant may as well be the dark side
of the moon to you characters.
Hell, the equivalent to a waltz across Texas would put all Brits
in a different country; several actually.
CG> Care to give me the average diameter of a hurricane as it passes over
CG> the American Coast from the Gulf of Mexico?
Depends. Care to qualify your question a bit and relate to what
magnitude storm to which you're referring? And you've got your
geography ass-backwards, Herr Mensa. Hurricanes originate as
tropical waves off the western coast of Africa, and head
generally westward. There, over the warm waters of the southern
Atlantic, they strengthen to tropical storms and finally, at
sustained wind speeds of 74 mph (119.1 km), and central depression
pressure of 1030 mb or less, become full-fledged hurricanes.
They, if they do head into the Gulf, pass over the American coast
on the Southern Atlantic Seaboard as they pass INTO (not as you
wrote "from") the Gulf of Mexico.
Sheesh. For a Mensaite, your geography really appears to be
lacking.
CG> Along with its average rotational speed, and average directional
CG> speed.
Stated above, as 74 (119.1 kph) mph, sustained or greater.
Directional vectors vary widely from stationary to a maximum
of 43 mph (69.2 kph).
Any further information I can supply you with?
CG> You do your own figuring, and don't forget to allow for the effects
of
CG> the Appalachian Mountains, and the Rockies, on the hurricane.
The Appalachians will have zero to no effect on a hurricane in
the Gulf, at least until well after landfall (if at all,
depending on travel vectors). The Rockies? Sheesh, sure, Chris,
Denver often has hurricane warnings. The only thing they MIGHT
get is a series of rainy days as the well spent storm (now
simply a low pressure zone) heads northward to it's eventual
integration into the jet stream.
CG> I think that you will find that 340 miles is the equivalent of a road
CG> width to a hurricane.
Quite wrong, old bean. The "road width" as you so pejoratively
put it, varies from less than 150 miles (241.4 km) (as the case
with Force 4+ storms) to over 750 miles (1,207 km) (as the case
in less severe storms). Tropical waves can have effective
barometric diameters of 1,500 miles (2,414 km), while tropical
storms can have rotational diameters of up to 1,000 miles
(1,609.3 km). These are global weather systems, Chris, not some
little thunderstorm over Kensington.
CG> Also presume that your local weather centre will be able to provide
CG> such information.
No need, I have all this information quite readily handy; in an
internal storage device I like to call "a brain".
... He who spends a storm beneath a tree, takes life with a grain of TNT.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 06:57:08
EID:d64d 219d3720
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Chris Green <=-
CG> Yes, we must take responsibility for the fragile Earth and its
CG> Resources.
ML> Awww...horseshit. The earth has been around for 4.6+ BY before
ML> a biped ape showed up. It'll be around for just as long even if
ML> a certain species of primates screws itself into oblivion.
CG> My personal feeling, is that the Human Species is rather similar to
a
CG> particularly nasty bacteria, currently, if we are not careful, we are
CG> not going to have anything left for the future.
ML> "We are not careful...we are not..." How nicely
ML> anthropomorphic. Humans have such an inflated and temporal
ML> view of themselves. They live but a hundred years, and like a
ML> butterfly flitting on a summer afternoon; think it's all of
ML> time.
ML> Luckily, science and technology arm us with the tools to
ML> survive, indeed; even undo the thousands of years damage
ML> wrought by that brand of inculcated ignorance called "religion".
CG> You're all out in the gulf of Mexico getting gas and oil powered by
CG> religion and Bibles?
Hardly. The oil and gas in the Gulf is sourced by late Tertiary
paleoflorules; the reservoir energy is provided by differential
compaction.
CG> Sorry Marty, but it is the scientific side who are busily destroying
CG> the planet - the religionists are just busy killing people.
I agree that religion is a great genocidal industry, but can
only laugh at your anthropocentric hubris to think (however
erroneously) that science is destroying the planet.
CG> The ground underneath is a honeycomb of mines; the land on top has
CG> been dug away in huge swathes; the logging industries continue to
CG> destroy virgin forests; ethnic peoples are fed 'pulp fiction' about
CG> being able to slash and burn and farm effectively; Natural fuels are
CG> all but dug out (we have around 400 years worth left - UNESCO figures);
Oh, my. Oh, me. Oh. forbear. What ever shall we do? I suggest
immediate and stringent measures. Chris, immediately turn off
and destroy your computer, sell your car, cut all electrical
lines leading into your abode, stopper the gas lines and sit in
the dark fretting how science is destroying the planet.
In the meanwhile, we scientists will go on extracting; both
economically and environmentally safely, the natural resources
that built the society, economy and longevity of our respective
nations. So much, in fact, that you have every opportunity to
live your 74+ years without having to worry about smallpox,
polio, or plague; not have to spend 18-20 hours a day
subsistence hunting or collecting just to survive another dawn;
and let you sit on your fat ass griping, moaning and grieving
about all the ills science has caused industrialized nations.
Bloody treehugging neodruid environmentalists.
CG> an acre of rainforest is destroyed every three minutes (Greenpeace);
CG> massive opencast mining in places like Brazil and India have destroyed
CG> the land and polluted the water tables (WHO);
So have coal extractive activities in Essex. Bitch to your city
council or parliament; but first divest yourself of every power
consuming, convenience engendering appliance.
CG> the burying of waste has
CG> to be monitored for methane (we've got housing estates built on top
of
CG> rubbish sites);
Serves you right for your lack of vision.
CG> Industrial pollution on a world-wide basis is
CG> diabolical, have a look at the results of the oil industry in Siberia
CG> (National Geographic approx June 1995);
Hey, Sherlock, here's a newsflash for you. I have worked in the
CIS for the past 8 years; particularly, I lived in Western
Siberia for the past 1.5 years. Sure, it's a mess. At least
they are striving to do something positive about it (like
hiring Western specialists) to remediate the problem and clean
up years of abuse. At least they're not sitting behind some
computer terminal woeing the situation and just paying lip
service, they're actually doing something about it.
CG> holes in the ozone layer
CG> (various news programmes - BBC, ITV) from CFC's, CO and CO2;
Which means exactly nothing. We only have 20 years of hard data
on the so-called "ozone hole". There are climatic cycles that
operate on 50, 100, 1,000 or greater year cycles. So, there's a
"hole" in the Antarctic ozone. Do we know what powers, shapes
or controls it's magnitude. No. Is it a cause for alarm? No. Is
it an interesting phenomena deserving further study? Yes.
Welcome to the wonderful world of science, stranger.
CG> micro-particles of soot from vehicle exhausts (Asthma Research
CG> Council); then there is the nuclear industry - and its growing
CG> collection of waste products, not to mention old reactors (I suppose
CG> we'll follow the Chernobyl model and declare 100 square miles of
CG> countryside as unlivable for next few centuries?), or (the Dounray
CG> model, bury it all in a big hole beside the sea, and wait for the bang!
CG> [BNFL 1988 - Newsnight BBC2 August 28th 1996]).
So, scurry and cache. Extract your cranium from your rectum and
nudge it in the sand. Vex and quail; all the time enumerating the
woes, ignore the positive, and sitting, paunchy and oblivious,
behind your technological marvel computer, in your climate
controlled flat, eating your unmad beef and kidney pies,
ingurgitating your pasteurized beers and taking acetomenophenic
acid for the headache this post causes you.
Your egocentrism, anthropocentrism and Ludditic plaints blanch
mightily against the both the great advances made by science
and the great debaucheries promulgated by religion.
... Environmentalism...a green tree with red roots.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:23:50
EID:b5f5 219d3ae0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Al Schroeder <=-
>AS> and rifles can also be used to protect the home
ML> Pucky de cheval! Rifles and handguns are terrible
ML> home defense weapons (they, like the energizer bunny,
ML> keep going and going and going...). A short barreled
ML> 12 or 10 gauge with 000 chill buckshot followed by a
ML> rifled deer slug is the best, bar none, home defense
ML> weapon (in fact, it's an original point and click
ML> interface).
DR> I'd rather have a scatter gun than a rifle to "protect
DR> my home," since any "protection" requiring deadly force
DR> would probably mean the threat has a hand gun or knife.
DR> Kind of nice to deliver the counter-threat addressed as
DR> "To Whom It May Concern" and have it arrive to the desired
DR> recipient.
A short barreled pump shotgun is the best home (etc.) defense
weapon. Loaded (a la local police departments) with 000 buck,
000 buck, rifled slug; there ain't a perp or vest made that can
withstand that amount of hydraulic shock.
DR> Yesterday I put my sword on board my boat as a weapon
DR> against pirates, but it just occured to me that it
DR> would be damn difficult to swing it hither and yon
DR> in the salon. I'd have to ask the cutthroats and thiefs
DR> to step out into the cockpit first, where I can chop
DR> them into little bits via full swing.
That's why dirks were invented. That's why tanks are fine
open-field weaponry, but why RPG's are the choice for in-town
skirmishes.
DR> Guess I'll put the sword back in storage.
Can always use it to open recalcitrant beer cans...
... Diplomacy: the delicate weapon of the civilized warrior.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:51:56
EID:1981 219d3e60
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to DAN CEPPA
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Dave Hamilton <=-
>DH> But, does every commercial good, product, rice
>DH> crispies box have bilingual packaging? That's
>DH> expensive to implement.
DC> Not yet, at least on food goods that I'm aware of.
DC> However, most all non-food products come with 3
DC> languages on them. I got a dart board for the kids,
DC> and has at least 4 languages for the instructions.
DR> The galley sink hand-pump I got from Belfast has six
DR> languages on its instructions. I thought it was cool.
It was a somewhat humbling experience to be in Russia, buy a
liter of fruit juice and have the ingredients listed in 6
different languages.
English was not one of them.
... Although, any language where "Ook" is a real word is to be suspect.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:03:33
EID:1976 219c9860
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4c0d81ff
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e3
On (27 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to Martin Goldberg...
SH> Steve Hayes is replying to Martin Goldberg, who wrote to Steve Hayes
MG> You are a fucking moron.
SH> ... Martin Goldberg's mindless ad hominems continue
Your lack of posting to show that you aren't a moron doesn't
make up for your stupid tagline. It's your inability to
think for yourself that is in question. Your non-response
only affirms Martin's assement of your lack of mental
attributes that don't surpass that of a coprolite.
... "I believe in Jeshua bar Casper-the-Holy-Spook!" David Rice
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:07:39
EID:1976 219c98e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 96523b7e
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e2
On (27 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to David Worrell...
SH> ... David Worrell's mindless ad hominems continue
Your response to David is indicative of your lack of simple
neural ability. You are not only wasting the bitwaves, you
are also wasting, in your quasi-existance, carbon, hydrogen
and oxygen.
You are the moron that you have made yourself out to be.
... Quick! Close your mind! Something blasphemous might get in.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:14:47
EID:64d6 219c99c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 f3b8b760
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3e5c8
On (27 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Kurtis Baxter...
NC> Well my friend it was really penned by 40 authors under the
NC> direction of God,
Provide evidence that your god exists before you attempt to
make that book of yours into more than a fairy tale for
stupid adults.
... Quick! Close your mind! Something blasphemous might get in.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:16:36
EID:070e 219c9a00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 2652a9bf
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3ec6e
On (27 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Sally Springett...
SS> You believe everything you read, don't you? Particularly when you
SS> don't have enough information to make a judgement.
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
Do a dissection and show the beating heart of an 8 week old
fetus.
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:18:15
EID:070e 219c9a40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 8dfd3c76
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3ec24
On (27 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Sally Springett...
NC> Greetings!
Eat shit, asshole.
SS> Do you have any idea of the _size_ of a 12-week fetus? If you were
SS> learn a bit about biology, rather than accepting as gospel the
NC> ""If it isn't a baby, then she's not Pregnant""
You are a fucking idiot. ES&D
... Don't let your mind wander, as it's too little to go out on it's own
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:24:40
EID:1f16 219c9b00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 08729b31
REPLY: 1:3603/210 110f0c45
On (26 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to Dan Ceppa...
RC> with or without: Brother Jesse
That sounds almost Brawleyesque in nature.
RC> I wonder if you might someday answer that question, Brother Jesse.
DC> Well, he's on a role.
RC> And what a role he has played!
I think he was type-cast.
DC> I think he actually answer one of your questions this year.
RC> How true; I remember being quite astonished.
It left you speechless for about what? 30 seconds?
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:33:32
EID:4e97 219c9c20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 85569ef5
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9b1002fb
On (27 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson got back to Marilyn Burge...
CJ> RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
CJ> little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but it looks
CJ> like:
CJ> "What, me worry?"
That was my guess, too! Then again, I'm MAD!
... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: <*WHACK*> C:\>_
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:37:05
EID:36cb 219c9ca0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 85570a8e
REPLY: 1:3603/210 10b60def
On (26 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to Steve Hayes...
RC> JB>> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
RC> SH>> Answer the question, fascist.
JB> 1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh well,
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
RC> Hardly. She made a perfectly reasonable inquiry. It's silly for
RC> you to demand that she answer your question about "sponge cats"
I don';t think that, other than Steve, there's a single person
in this Echo or even the world that knows what a "sponge cat"
is.
Best I can come up with is that they are very furry and
you use them to wipe up a wet floor. No need to tie them on
to the handle, as they hang on tight with their claws.
... "Weins" is a typo for "wines", but is missing the "h" to complete it.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:41:51
EID:4c8b 219c9d20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 8ba354ea
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c395df
On (24 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to Martin Goldberg...
MG> The intelligent person would realize that the question "Why do we need
MG> to be saved?" requires the evidence of a god first and then the
SH> The intelligent person would be aware that the question is
SH> meaningless.
Which leaves you out.
SH> It immediately raises a further question of what "need" means in that
See? You asked another questioned using as a basis a question that
you can't answer.
Try again, and be coherent the next time around.
... "The fools says in his heart, 'Your question is stupid. I will not
answer it.'"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:46:29
EID:7f31 219c9dc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 440e9473
REPLY: 1:3603/210 110f0c4b
On (26 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to Al Schroeder...
AS> Roger once pointed out long ago that I attack on the intellectual
AS> side,
RC> Resulting in an unarmed assault.
Excuse me... I have to go clean my keyboard and rinse off
the monitor and hose out the CPU.
ROTFL-MAO!
... To quote God Dan, you may now "decease and desist."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Definitions
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:21:47
EID:f9b4 219d72a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b0
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32c409a9
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Chris Green <=-
RS> This IS a debate echo, Chris.
cg> Marked on this BBS as general religious discussion; shall
cg> get my sysop to put in a better description.
He may not have known any better. Most of us put the
following description on our BBSes for the area:
HolySmoke: Religious Food Fight Echo
Now, mind you, it's not strictly a debate echo either. But
it DOES fulfill THAT function in addition to others.
cg> {Incidentally, those people claiming to be atheists, are
cg> claiming, by their definition of themselves, not to believe
cg> in a single God, but must believe in multiple gods. People
RS> Why must they?
cg> who have no belief in any form of God or gods are
cg> non-deists.}
cg> Above definition was taken from Collins.
I'm still confused about why atheists (who by definition
don't believe in any Deity at all) must, therefore, believe
in multiple Deities. Who is this Collins guy, and where do I
go to take it up with him?
RS> And you claim to be English? Atheist breaks down to a-
RS> (without) -theis- (roughly . . . but meaning Deity) -ist (one
RS> who is). I've fudge the breakup a bit, but by definition an
RS> Atheist is one without beliefs in a Deity. Check Websters.
cg> Websters?????:-)
Ah, sorry about that. The standard reference text in this
country among dictionaries, even though it had Deist
leanings, is Merriam Webster. I use the Merriam Webster New
Collegiate Dictionary. It is the most well-known. I have
used the OED though, on occassion, just can't afford to own
the set I want . . .
cg> Checked the Oxford English (Complete Version), you are
cg> correct, damn! :-)
I hate myself for it.
cg> Deist is an earlier version of theist (earliest recorded use
cg> of theist is 1662).
cg> 'Theism' (earliest recorded use 1678) defined as:
cg> a. Generally. Belief in a deity or deities, as opposed to
cg> atheism.
cg> b. Belief in one god, as opposed to polytheism or
cg> pantheism.
cg> c. Belief in the existence of God, with denial of
cg> revelation: equivalent to 'deism.'
cg> d. Especially. Belief in one God as creator and supreme
cg> ruler of the universe, without denial of revelation; in this
cg> use is distinct from 'deism.'
cg> Thanks,
Aw, pshaw, anyone would have done it . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: MENSA
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:28:43
EID:0485 219d7380
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b1
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32c409ac
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to Gwenny the Pooh <:(
Chris:
You may be getting some amused reactions to the following
message you posted, and most of those will hinge around the
differences between English and American usage of words, etc.
I just wanted to jump in real quick and point out the most
obvious places so you can understand why there may be some
amusement sent back to you.
CG> When I was much younger, I went to Private schools; when I
CG> reached 11, time for the 11 plus I made the decision to go
CG> for apprenticeship with my grandfather.
There may be some amusement here, as we don't have the 11+
system here . . . and though there are still apprenticeships
in this country, they aren't quite as common as they used to
be. Instead, we seem to have filled the void with home
schooling.
CG> However, when my grandfather explained what was involved:
CG> mathematics to calculus standard, technical drawing, english
CG> language (you have to be able to talk to the clients, and
CG> not make a fool of yourself or your firm), engineering
CG> workshop theory and practice (making and repairing machine
CG> tools), blacksmithing (making and repairing hand tools),
Personal aside: I do some smithing as well, when I get the
chance. I hope to set up my own forge pretty soon so that I
can do more of it.
CG> geology and structures of rock (knowledge of sheer faces and
CG> knowledge of quarrying), basic physics (levers, momentum,
CG> pulleys, etc), vehicle maintenance (4 tonner and 1 ton van),
CG> design, building regulations, planning regulations,
CG> vernacular architecture (bread and butter work),
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're bound to get some hoots on this from the cheap seats.
CG> I qualified at 18, after 7 years very hard graft, most of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This'll get you the biggest laugh. In America, graft is
money payed as a sort of bribe . . . so you can
see how some may be amused about this.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: MISSED MESSAGE-2
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:46:44
EID:ff37 219d75c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b2
};> Becke Boyer wrote in a message to Sean Mccullough <:(
SM> My next email message from her (which had been arriving
SM> daily without fail) was nearly two weeks later; three more
SM> exchanges at increasingly slow rates, and I'm getting a
SM> phone call telling me she's MARRIED.
SM> She MARRIED the man she found right at about the time I was
SM> planning on first MEETING her: Mid-October.
RS> No shit, she really got married? Man, I'm sorry, Sean. That
RS> must have been, ahem, unpleasant in the least.
RS> Unbelieveable.
BB> Shit happens.
BB> *EVERY* red-light alarm in the system went off when that
BB> happened. So it wasn't
BB> unpleasant; on the contrary, the internal survival instincts
BB> DID THEIR FUCKING
BB> JOB FOR ONCE and kept me out of MASSIVE trouble.
Well, it was me talking there and I was just
mentioning that it must have been unpleasant for Sean.
Blame me, not him, for any opaqueness of meaning in my words.
I'm glad to see you back, btw. Hope all is well.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:56:24
EID:e552 219d7700
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 e5eee16c
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (26 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Christian
DC> Hedemark...
CH> And then went on to add vulgarity.
RS> Fucking right, he fucking did!
RS> communicate. As a matter of fucking fact, I believe I've
RS> fucking communicated to you right fucking here.
RS> Your turn, Bozo.
DC> Shouldn't that have been, "Your turn, you fucking Bozo"?
Well, not if I want to win Mr. Moderation at the convention . . .
DC> Just checking to see if a "Puritanity Block" wasn't in
DC> effect.
I actually had the upgrade, , installed. No
more worries about Earth Quakes for my board . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: not believing
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:59:46
EID:6b66 219d7760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b4
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 4a52186f
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to John Brawley <:(
DC> On (26 Dec 96) John Brawley got back to ROBERT CURRY...
JB> ......Is "zero" a "number?"
RC> Sure, but it's neither positive nor negative.
JB> Then zero drinking is a degree of drinking, neither positive nor
JB> negative.
DC> Then, John, what is "negative drinking"?
Barking at the ants? (You know, the Turbo Reverse Chug!)
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:01:17
EID:6148 219d7820
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b5
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 b6a7437f
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
js> Out of obedience to His Father.
DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
DC> You nailed that one right on!
RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one home . . .
DC> You realy pierced me with that one. My side's splitting.
It's a thorny problem: why the whipping? Beats me.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: I forget
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:02:42
EID:789e 219d7840
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b6
REPLY: 1:229/622 32c54860
};> Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DH> About a message of Richard Smith to Dave Hamilton:
RS> Or, perhaps, the society will do as the Japanese did. When
RS> weapons were outlawed in old Japan, the people eventually
RS> turned ordinary impliments into weapons. The nunchaku, for
RS> instance, were originally for flailing the hull off of rice
RS> grains. The bo staff was originally just a staff. The sai
RS> orginally had some other use as well, etc., etc., etc. . . .
RS> As a personal observance: we don't buy gun toys for our boys.
RS> Never have. We WILL buy plastic ninja swords, etc., but no
RS> projectile weapons at all. Yet they still simulate guns
RS> while playing.
DH> Same here. Our boys use anything from broken branches to
DH> hockey sticks as guns and seem to do fine. So did I when I
DH> was a little shaver. But we didn't kill each other with
DH> them.
Not unless you whacked someone really hard with one . . .
RS> It would appear that people are going to have weapons,
RS> regardless.
DH> I suspect the propensity to use tools and weapons is innate.
I would have to agree.
DH> Good luck with your move.
At the moment, it's looking like a non-move. I've had my
fill, by now, with beaurocrats and tiny-brained employess of
same . . . but thanx, anyway!
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: God misses victims . . .
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:05:18
EID:0a60 219d78a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b7
REPLY: 1:229/622 32c5a776
};> Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DH> About a message of Richard Smith to All:
>> It is impossible to calculate precise odds for all these
>> events occurring at once. But past performance indicated that
>> each person would be late for practice one time in four --
>> producing a one-in-a-million chance that the entire choir
>> would be late that night.
DH> The writer forgot to calculate the odds including the
DH> frequency of bombs exploding at that church.
Odd thing, I got the impression that the church was struck by
lightning. Considering that it probably had a metal cross on
top, that would improve the odds of being struck, even if it
wasn't completely grounded, wouldn't it? At any rate, the
numbers are suspect . . .
DH> Maybe it was
DH> someone in the congregation. I've heard some pretty
DH> ferocious choirs myself.
I'm betting on a neighbor, myself . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:12:46
EID:afb6 219d7980
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b8
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32C46365
};> Ronald Vass wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
LB> Brett and Dan were killing time yakking about Xstians v
LB> Sinners = Guns:
CG> If Sinners are no longer human, then it must be OK to shoot them?
BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
LB> ;)
RS> Now, does Yahveh go to Hell for his sins?
RV> He gets to debate Al on < Sample Space > and why [ He-2 and
RV> He II ] are the same thing.
Oh, the inhumanity of it all, the horror! Poor Yahveh . . .
it isn't as though he doesn't deserve it, though, especially
after the Midianites . . .
RV> Even a god, can only handel an
Would that be Handel's Messiah?
RV> infinite Al spindoctoring, so long. Music being provided by
RV> the, Staal_ing Singing Group of One. Afer a month or two of
Oh, that's gotta be annoying . . .
RV> this entertainment, a spear in the side begings to look like
RV> fun, so Yahveh returns to hell ; to find out why a good idea
RV> got so twisted around so bad. As you can see, Poor God is
RV> getting all rejects.
Serves him right. He should straighten his act up and fly
right. Imagine, letting children get raped or starve to
death!
RV> BBBbbbbbooooooooooorrrrrrreeeeeeing,
RV> MMmmmmmmoooooorrrrrroooonnnnnsss, fundys by the bus load,
RV> synthesis of various elements, gone wrong.
Some settling and spoilage is bound to occur . . .
RV> With nar a bag of chips in any pocket.
LOL . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: heat
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:17:13
EID:020a 219d7a20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b9
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c56ec4
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Curtis Johnson <:(
GtP> Yeah, but Jesse's been here for years. I, personally, think
GtP> he persevered very well, even if he was getting a little
GtP> weird toward the end.
I think the word you're looking for here is `gamey' . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:18:23
EID:a9a8 219d7a40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60ba
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c570c0
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
GtP> Heilsa, Richard!
Bend a brigade, Gwenny!
GtP>> So doing good so much for others as it is for me.
RS> Does this mean you do good not so much for others but for
RS> yourself? If so, I can empathize and agree with that in
RS> spirit, though I don't know you well enough to actually say
RS> that that's why you do it.
GtP> Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. I believe that
GtP> almost everything that passes for altruism is actually for
GtP> self. I don't think that makes me a bad person, just an
GtP> honest one.
I would have to agree with that . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:21:15
EID:a226 219d7aa0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60bb
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c576d4
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Curtis Johnson <:(
GtP> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I
GtP> think) that they put two cabbages in a room together, with
GtP> electrodes on one of them, and a person went in and cut the
GtP> other to pieces. The first cabbage went ballistic. . .well,
GtP> for a cabbage. Later they paraded quite a few people
GtP> through the room, and when the cabbage murder came in, the
GtP> first cabbage recognized him.
Watson: My God, Holmes, how did you deduce the killer?
Holmes: Elementary, dear Watson . . . the cabbage told me.
Addendum: is the past tense of slay, slaw?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: satanism
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:25:21
EID:5a92 219d7b20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60bc
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c583dc
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Rod Swift <:(
RS> Staal will tell you that it was that EEEVIL FEMINAZI Janet Reno
RS> who destroyed Pooh's honeypot!!!!
GtP> Destroyed my honeypot?? Dahling, there is ABSOLUTELY
GtP> nothing wrong with my honeypot.
Then I take it you've never met Janet Reno?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:26:18
EID:a226 219d7b40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60bd
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c5842d
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Nate Cookson <:(
SS>> You believe everything you read, don't you? Particularly when you
SS>> don't have enough information to make a judgement.
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
GtP> Steak stops a beating heart.
Thought stops a Fundy brain.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:33:35
EID:8716 219d7c20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60be
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c58ead
};> Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
SQ> Salue, Richard!
Bendigaid, Steve!
SQ> Mercurii dies December 25 1996, Dixit Richard Smith ad Gerry
SQ> Danen:
RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
GD>> This is an English echo, I thought... Sorry, but I can call
GD>> you names in a different language too...
RS> Too bad I didn't call you any names. Ask anyone who speaks
RS> latin what this means, and you'll see that I didn't call you
RS> a name at all. How's that foot taste?
SQ> Oh, we KNOW that "anxius sum" means "anal licker," don't we?
SQ> :-/
ROFLMGDAO . . . yeah, but the Quid, Me means "What, am I
" . . . seems perfectly acceptible to me . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Rice Brothers
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:36:21
EID:cf28 219d7c80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60bf
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c5d5ad
};> Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Fredric Rice <:(
FR> Then of course David is planning on taking his "blasphemy" to innocent
FR> Christians in the South Pacific even as I've corrupted Christians all
over
FR> Holland, spreading the "blasphemous tools of my own cunning."
SQ> I'm going to change the secret recipe for Vernors so that it
SQ> makes the mind open to suggestion.
So it probably still wouldn't work on fundies, eh?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:37:35
EID:26bc 219d7ca0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c0
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c5d84a
};> Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Rod Swift <:(
JS>> Don't think so, dude. The head bully in the biker bar I was in this
JS>> week bought me a brewski 5 minutes after I walked in, and I didn't
JS>> even have a word with him. Ahhh...sweet respect...
SQ> Yeah, but _I_ gave away my last can of Vernors last week.
SQ> :-)
SQ> Staal is so cute when he's showing his machismo. I bet he
SQ> wears his wife's underwear.
So that explains why she wasn't wearing any . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:39:58
EID:10df 219d7ce0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c1
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c627a8
};> Don Martin wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DM> Richard Smith said "DECEMBER 25" to Gerry Danen, adding:
RS> BTW, your formatting really sucks. Could you move your left
RS> margin in to about seventy or less? That would help a lot
RS> when trying to read those you're quoting.
DM> Much as I am in favor of reducing the comments of
DM> halfwits to skinny little strings, I rather suspect that it
DM> is the RIGHT margin you would like to see adjusted this way.
You're correct, I was thinking of other things when I
responded to this. His RIGHT margin should be moved.
However, I do wish to point out that if he moved his left
margin in about seventy or eighty spaces, we wouldn't have to
put up with him at all . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:41:42
EID:0e75 219d7d20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c2
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c627a9
};> Don Martin wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DM> Check out my personal pet, Nate Cookson. I am thinking
DM> of entering him as "Best of Breed."
JB> In which group? Non-working, non-sporting or toy?
DM> I was going for "non-thinking", but "toy" has
DM> possibilities. Aren't they the ones that makes lots of
DM> yipping noises, shit in sneaky places, and are generally
DM> ineffectual?
RS> Sounds like a match to me. Going to have him fixed? He'll
RS> be a lot more docile and contented.
DM> His repair is, I fear, beyond human compass.
Too bad. And I bet you can't even use the meat for anything
either . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:43:23
EID:1f0a 219d7d60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c3
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9d0a0313
};> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
CJ> Since Richard said he might not be able to post for
CJ> a little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but
CJ> it looks like:
CJ> "What, me worry?"
RS> Well, since there are more bloody delays with the extortion,
RS> er, escrow, than there are nits on Staalin's hairy back,
RS> we've had to put off the move for a day or who knows?
RS>
CJ> Patience--and just a bit of that of quid!
Oh, sure . . . when my wife is going through mood-swings
concerning this faster than Speedy Gonzalez goes through
uppers . . .
Being the rational one in the family can be a monumental pain
in the ass . . .
RS> You have the translation correct. How do you like the idiot
RS> who thought that it meant I was calling him names?
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
CJ> Not only was he unable to distinguish between a
CJ> sig/tag line and the message itself, but he failed to
CJ> notice that you were using it for every message from you
CJ> to anybody!
I love it that you can always count on them for a laugh.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: dark bible #4
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:47:32
EID:078c 219d7de0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c4
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9d0a04ef
};> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to John Brawley <:(
CJ> On 26 Dec 96 03:12pm, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
JB> Yes. It works often enough that it is imho statistically unreasonable
JB> to ascribe the results to "coincidence." The 'meteorite' example is
not
JB> just an example: it was a real event. That is, the meteorite I asked
JB> for six months ahead of time, to see at 12:00 midnight on the day of
JB> Winter Solstice (this was many years ago, by the way), appeared on
JB> schedule, within a few minutes of the appointed hour. Which is of
JB> course to say "yes, it worked then."
CJ> John, at the very least you should have established
CJ> the average frequency of visible meteors before ascribing
CJ> any particular significance to yours.
Why, then he wouldn't be able to set up a test that he would
already know the outcome of beforehand, and outcome that
would be in his favor and would `prove' his hypothesis!
CJ> From _A Concise Encyclopedia of Astronomy_, American
CJ> Elsevier, 1969, "Meteor":
CJ> "About 25 meteors an hour can be seen from a single
CJ> observation point with the naked eye. One observer, who
CJ> naturally cannot keep all parts of the sky under
CJ> observation at the same time, usually sees about 8 meteors
CJ> in the same period. The number of meteors visible each day
CJ> over the whole of the earth is
CJ> approximately 100 million."
LOL . . .
CJ> IOW, you could typically expect to see a meteor
CJ> every 7-8 minutes anyway.
CJ> That's the over-all, "background," year-in/year-out
CJ> average. But noted: "The frequency of meteors has a
CJ> daily and an annual variation: the hourly number observed
CJ> on any one night increases from the early evening until
CJ> about 3 or 4 hours after midnight, and the mean hourly
CJ> frequency for a single night is least in the spring and a
CJ> maximum in the autumn." IOW, the time you'd specified was
CJ> not the ideal in these statistical patterns, but it was
CJ> above the average.
CJ> And, as it turns, out, winter solstice is exactly
CJ> the time of the Ursids--a show which adds a dozen more
CJ> meteors/hour over the background rate.
Yep. Funny about that, isn't it?
It's like me praying to Star Goat for a super cloud of
methane gas, and stipulating that if The Windy One was going
to answer my prayer, They let me know by putting in at least
one letter `e' in the next posting after this.
What are the odds?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:53:09
EID:8716 219d7ea0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60c5
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c5e418
};> Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Gwenny the Pooh <:(
RS>>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
GtP> little macro is an insult. I had (and I don't really know Latin)
GtP> kinda translated it to mean something along the lines of "What, am
I
GtP> worried?" I could be wrong. Just about the time I think I've
GtP> figured it out, I'm wrong.
SQ> It's Latin for "What, me worry?", which is a phrase
SQ> associated with MAD magazine's "mascot," Alfred E. Neuman.
Yep.
SQ> My guess is that Richard got his hands on a few wonderful
SQ> books by Henry Beard, "Latin for All Occasions," and "Even
SQ> More Latin for All Occasions" (I'm fuzzy on the second one,
SQ> but it's a variation of the first.). They're entertainment
SQ> even if you -don't- know Latin, as you get to see all kinds
SQ> of every day phrases or current buzzwords translated into
SQ> pretty good Classical Latin ("Beam me up, Scotty," "Go favourite football team>," "Fuck you and your horse," and so
SQ> forth.). Of course, they're even funnier if you ARE
SQ> familiar with Latin.
I have a copy of Greek for All Occasions. I did read the
Latin for All Occassions at the library, though.
SQ> I had a dentist as a child who displayed his diplomas on the
SQ> wall where the examination chair was. I was -fascinated- by
SQ> this stuff, and I think that is ultimately where my interest
SQ> in philology began. Anyways, the dentist in question became
SQ> a friend of the family, and after he retired, he had a major
SQ> stroke that put him into a wheelchair. I bought him copies
SQ> of those books, because over the years, we'd talk about
SQ> language when I visited his office. I never saw him again,
SQ> but his daughters said he was just over the moon to get
SQ> those books and pore over 'em for hours. I knew how to pick
SQ> 'em, and the old guy was quite entertained. Bless his
SQ> heart.
SQ> Jesse Jones: There's a "good work" that I did. Fuck you
SQ> and the horse you rode in on, or "Futue te ipsum et caballum
SQ> tuum."
Indeed.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Chris Green
|To: All
|Sub: I'm back to work today
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:13:12
EID:1abb 219c59a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c4ffe0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
Should you disbelieving, poor little Americans, or other ex-colonials
wish to check me out you can do so on the following UK echoes - unless
of course you are ALL conspiracy theorists, and believe that the UK is
all set to invade America!
SCIENCE.UK SCIENCE_UK VICARS SOUNDOFF COMMON-ROOM CONTROV
CONTROVERSE
CONTROVERSE has a unique monthly rule posting:
"1. There are no rules."
My qualifications are, as is; my life is, as is; whether you wish to
believe or disbelieve it, I really couldn't give a damn!
'Postulation One', should have reached you all by now.
Read you, when I read you,
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Xstream 44-151-488-0698 V21-V34+ [OS2/Max3.01/Md1.10] (2:250/210)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:40:00
EID:d432 21966500
December 23 Monday
PEACE ON EARTH
Read: John 3:16-21
God so loved the world that He
gave His only begotten Son.
-John 3:16
Perhaps you remember the newspaper photograph in
December 1991 that showed eight members of a police SWAT
team looking for a sniper in a small Missouri town.
Stretched across the road over their heads was a
Christmas banner that read "Peace On Earth." The
headline above the photo said: FOUR KILLED, ONE WOUNDED
IN ATTACKS.
Events that hardly faze us the rest of the year seem
tragic and out of place as we approach Christmas. The
message of the angels is mocked by angry shouts and
endless violence.
Every Christmas I remind myself that the world into
which Jesus was born was not draped with pine boughs and
soft glowing lights. Families were gathering to sign
the tax rolls of a tyrannical Roman government, not to
sing carols and exchange gifts.
John 3:16 states, "God so loved the world" - the
givers and takers, movers and shakers, snipers and SWAT
teams - "that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever" - the haves and have-nots, frightened children
and anxious parents - "believes in Him should not perish
but have everlasting life."
The offer still stands. People everywhere can have
peace on earth if they'll look for it in Jesus.
-David C. McCasland
The angels said at Jesus' birth
That He was bringing peace on earth;
God's inner peace we can receive
If in His Son we will believe. -Sper
NO GOD, NO PEACE;
KNOW GOD, KNOW PEACE.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ 221st ROA: you can't free a fish from water.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 23 Dec 96 11:33:00
EID:d432 21975c20
December 24 Tuesday
WHILE THE WORLD SLEEPS
Read: John 1:1-14
He was in the world, and the
world was made through Him,
and the world did not know
Him. -John 1:10
In the vivid imagination of many young children, high
above the decorations and colorful holiday lights, a
jolly man in a red suit is pulled through the sky by a
team of flying reindeer. Youngsters go to bed in fitful
anticipation of the next morning. It's Christmas Eve!
Yet today my mind wanders across time and space to a
very different scene. The animals are restless. A mule
brays. A cow bumps the stable door. An anxious husband
stops pacing the makeshift delivery room floor to
console his love. Suddenly a newborn baby sputters with
His first breath. With a spirited cry He announces His
own arrival. The long-awaited Son has come!
On Christmas morning this year, children will leap out
of bed and rush downstairs. Paper and ribbon will soon
threaten to push everyone out of the room. Will we let
it push out the Son of God too?
In the excitement of the holiday, let's draw attention
to the Savior. Like John the Baptist, let's point
others to the One who came into the world but was not
recognized by it (Jn. 1:6-10). May the greetings we
speak, the cards we send, the presents we give be
motivated by our love for Jesus. After all, He is the
real reason for the season!
-Martin R. De Haan II
The world drowns the carol with its sleighbells -
Giftwraps the manger - shoves it out of sight;
Yet though the darkness deepens while the din swells,
The Star of Bethlehem still shines as bright. -Gustafson
THE BEST GIFT IN THE WORLD
WAS WRAPPED IN A MANGER.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:39:00
EID:d432 21985ce0
December 25 Wednesday
EARTH WALK
Read: Matthew 1:18-25
John 1:11-18
The Word became flesh and dwelt
among us, and we beheld His
glory. -John 1:14
After the Apollo XV mission, Colonel James Irwin
related some of the high points of his experience. He
told of weightless bodies floating free in the space
capsule, the rising crescent of the earth as seen from
the moon, and the triumphal splashdown before a watching
world.
Irwin also spoke of the impact the experience had on
his spiritual life. He said that from the lunar surface
he sensed both the glory of God and the plight of
earthbound man. As he came back to earth, he realized
he couldn't content himself with being merely a
celebrity. He would have to be a servant, telling his
fellowman of a better way to live. Irwin concluded by
saying that if we think it a great event to go to the
moon, how much greater is the wonder that God came to
earth in the person of Jesus Christ!
Because man walked on the moon, science and technology
have made tremendous advances. But because God walked
on earth, we know both our origin and our destiny. We
can know our Creator personally (Jn. 1:1,14,18), and we
can live in His light (v.9). Through Jesus' sinless
life and sacrificial death we have the joy of sins
forgiven and an abundant life - all because God walked
on earth.
-Martin R. De Haan II
Down from His glory, ever-living story,
My God and Savior came, and Jesus was His name.
Born in a manger, to His own a stranger,
A man of sorrows, tears, and agony. -Booth-Clibborn
GOD MADE HIS HOME WITH US
THAT WE MIGHT MAKE OUR HOME WITH GOD.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 25 Dec 96 11:29:00
EID:d432 21995ba0
December 26 Thursday
BETTER THAN HAPPINESS
Read: Galatians 5:16-26
The fruit of the Spirit is
...joy. -Galatians 5:22
Mark was 21 and dependent on drugs. Finding happiness
was his big goal in life, a goal that had eluded him.
Once, while talking with our family, his frustration
erupted: "Look, all I want in life is happiness. I want
to feel happy. It that asking too much?"
Sadly, Mark was asking far too little of life. What
he really was seeking but hadn't realized was not
happiness but joy. He couldn't accept that real joy is
a fruit of something, or Someone, much greater than
happiness. He came very close to Jesus Christ - close
enough to taste the life that results in the joy he so
deeply craved. But eventually he walked away, only to
remain unhappy.
According to Bible scholar Ian Barclay, "Happiness is
not a biblical word at all. It is derived from the root
to happen. Clearly, what happens to us will affect our
happiness. Joy, on the other hand, is a fruit of God's
Spirit and is not affected by good or bad happenings.
Joy is not dependent on our circumstances. It is
dependent, as we ourselves need to be, on God Himself
who dwells within us.
We should desire to have this joy in our lives,
without chasing after it. Let's live and walk in the
Spirit so that the fruit of joy will naturally burst
forth.
-Joanie E. Yoder
Because life's circumstances change,
Our happiness may not remain;
But if we're walking with the Lord,
Our inner joy He will sustain. -Sper.
HAPPINESS DEPENDS ON HAPPENINGS;
JOY DEPENDS ON JESUS.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 26 Dec 96 11:23:00
EID:d432 219a5ae0
December 27 Friday
"I FORGOT"
Read: Psalm 20
We will remember the name of the
Lord our God. -Psalm 20:7
I was relieved to find out that I'm not the only one
who forgets things. Everyone does at one time or
another, according to Karen Bolla, a Johns Hopkins
researcher. These are the things people most often
forget:
* names 83%
* where something is 60%
* telephone numbers 57%
* words 53%
* what was said 49%
* faces 42%
And If you can't remember whether you've just done
something, you join 38 percent of the population.
Followers of Jesus Christ also have a problem with
forgetfulness. In high-pressure situations, or when
we're just going through a daily routine, we forget God.
We seem to forget that we are His children. We fail to
recall what He has promised to do for us. We don't
remember His awesome power and His love. So we try to
overcome temptation in our own strength, or to solve a
difficult problem by using the wisdom of the world.
David said it this way: "Some trust in chariots, and
some horses," - another way of saying that people rely
on their own resources (Ps. 20:7). But then David
added, "We will remember the name of the Lord our God."
How's your memory today?
-David C. Egner
Thinking It Over
Have you been taking the Lord's goodness for granted?
How many of His blessings can you list right now?
Why not thank God specifically for those blessings?
DAILY BLESSINGS ARE DAILY REMINDERS OF GOD.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:41:00
EID:d432 219b5d20
December 28 Saturday
SIN'S DEADLY WAGES
Read: Romans 6:16-23
The wages of sin is death, but
the gift of God is eternal life
in Christ Jesus our Lord.
-Romans 6:23
The following story was often told by the 19th-century
minister Charles Haddon Spurgeon: "A cruel king called
one of his subjects into his presence and asked him his
occupation. The man responded, `I'm a blacksmith.' The
ruler then ordered him to go and make a chain of a
certain length.
"The man obeyed, returning after several months to
show it to the monarch. Instead of receiving praise for
what he had done, however, he was instructed to make the
chain twice as long.
"When that assignment was completed, the blacksmith
presented his work to the king, but again was commanded,
`Go back and double its length!' This procedure was
repeated several times. At last the wicked tyrant
directed the man to be bound in the chains of his own
making and cast into a fiery furnace."
Like that cruel king, sin extracts from its servants a
dreadful price: "The wages of sin is death" (Rom.
6:23). But the good news is the last part of that
verse: "The gift of God is eternal life through Christ
Jesus our Lord." If you are not a Christian, consider
the consequence of your sin. Then "believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31).
-Richard W. De Haan
Lord, give me courage to confess,
To bare my sinful heart to Thee;
Forgiving love You long to show
And from my sin to set me free.
-Dennis J. De Haan
TO GET TO HEAVEN,
IT'S WHO YOU KNOW THAT COUNTS!
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:29:00
EID:d432 219c5ba0
December 29 Sunday
CONFIDENT PEOPLE
Read: Psalm 89:1-18
Blessed are the people who know
the joyful sound! They walk, O
Lord, in the light of Your
countenance. -Psalm 89:15
In a television interview, a highly successful
businessman admitted that he is a troubled person. He
said he worries little about himself, but he's afraid
something dreadful - such as a nuclear holocaust, a
cosmic collision, an environmental disaster, or a plague
out of control - may wipe out all life as we know it.
I do not share the fear that a natural or man-made
catastrophe will bring about the end of human history.
I believe that Jesus Christ will return to this earth.
But because no one knows just when this will occur, we
have no guarantee that some large-scale catastrophe will
not take place. Nuclear weapons are in the hands of
many nations. The possibility of an uncontrollable
plague is real. And the earth bears evidence of having
been damaged by meteorites.
These facts need not disturb us, because like the
psalmist we know the Lord and walk in the light of His
presence (Ps. 89:15). We can be serene and confident,
for we know nothing can happen unless He permits it, and
ultimately we will be with Him in heaven. We too can
say, "We will not fear, even though the earth be
removed, and though the mountains be carried into the
midst of the sea" (46:2). How wonderful the peace God
gives those who trust Him!
-Herbert Vander Lugt
When every worry, every care
To God in faith is brought,
We have no place on which to base
One single anxious thought. -Anon.
WORRY ENDS WHERE FAITH IN GOD BEGINS.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:18:00
EID:a055 219d7240
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8ac
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Nate Cookson <=-
BF> Hahahahaha ...
BF> No, it's because of copulation. Population increases because the
BF> birth rate exceeds the death rate. It's a mathematical thing. Look:
nc> I think the laugh is on you, ....
nc> Is it the "mathematical thing" that does the
nc> "copulation" or is the human race!!?
RS> Does EVERYONE copulate? If not, then it's not the race as
RS> such, is it?
nc> So.. although your math is correct.... It's still
nc> mankind that has caused the problem, ins't it...
RS> Aided by the Church's ban on abortion and past bans on birth
RS> control, etc. We aren't in it alone, Nathaniel.
Don't forget the CURRENT ban on birth control methods (other than
the rhythym method) that is currently held by the Roman Catholic Church.
They have to fill the pews, you know, even though there are not enough
priests to go around!
Sue
... Can you say "impressive display of sarcasm", boys 'n' girls?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:59:50
EID:56d0 219d7760
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8ae
-=> Quoting Brian Shreve to Curtis Johnson <=-
BS> Gosh Curtis, has science brought a way for us males to bear a
BS> child? He wasn't talking about tonsils or toe nails or limbs
BS> or gall bladders or warts.
CJ> When was it ever a custom to give full-fledged funerals
CJ> for 3-4 month miscarriages?
BS> Miscarriages? Hello, anyone home? He was talking about abortion,
BS> Curtis.
From the standpoint of the tissue involved, what's the difference?
Sue
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda. -- Dan Ceppa
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:58:31
EID:1905 219d7f40
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8ad
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Richard Smith <=-
MB> It gets worse. Eileen went into surgery at 10 this morning.
MB> Chris called us when the surgery was over, around 3-3:30.
MB> The kind of tumor Eileen has is benign 99 percent of the time.
MB> Eileen, unfortunately, falls in the other 1 percent of the
MB> cases. They do not yet know the origin of the cancer, but
MB> they are certain it arrived in her brain from someplace else
MB> in her body. I'll lay odds it started in her lungs; she's
MB> smoked all her life.
(...)
MB> She's my baby sister. It isn't supposed to happen like this.
MB> To me, she'll always be my baby sister.
While I can (thankfully) only claim a vague idea of what you must
be going through, I just wanted to let you know that I am sorry for what
you all must endure and sincerely hope that the conclusion of this
is as peaceful as it can be.
Sue
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: physics comedy
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:51:40
EID:6a06 219d8660
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8b0
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Sue Alexander <=-
SA> Ms Armstrongs. I live just off the shore of Lake Mendota...you know,
SA> the one that had the Statue of Liberty "dropped" in it many years ago?
SQ> ?! I thought that was Otis Redding. :)
Him too. ;) Actually, I was referring to the fulfillment of a
campaign promise of one of the parties in the UW student
government...they promised to move the Statue of Liberty here. Lo
and behold, it showed up "in" the lake one frosty day!
Fancy that...
Sue
... I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:52:56
EID:1b33 219d8680
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8af
-=> Quoting Nate Cookson to Sally Springett <=-
SS> You believe everything you read, don't you? Particularly when you
SS> don't have enough information to make a judgement.
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
Not for the first 8 weeks. Besides, miscarraige also stops a
beating heart (after the first 8 weeks)...why not campaign against that?
Sue
... The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:22:16
EID:a11f 219d9ac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b860
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a1a28255
};> Katherine Wintersnight wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
RS> Two related bits about chocolate. In another area there is a
RS> great debate going on about if chocolate is lethal for dogs
RS> in large doses. If anyone is interested, I can bootleg some
RS> of the posts over here. Also, I have somewhere a lovely
RS> Pagan chocolate ritual which, if I can find it, I may upload
RS> here. Chocolate is its own reward, after all . . .
KW> Is that the one with the chocolate chips, or the one that
KW> ends up with cocoa sprinkled all over the back yard?
You know, I don't remember . . . so there's obviously TWO
chocolate rituals now? Gads, the stuff must be popular!
I'll really have to look for it now . . . it's the one where
one of the ritual officers is referred to as the Swiss Miss.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:28:50
EID:fed6 219d9b80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b861
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c628b6
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
GtP> Heilsa, Richard!
Bendigaid, Gwenny!
GD>> I'll bet it's called Christmas in England...
GtP>> It's also called Yule, even though Yule is specifically the
GtP>> Winter Solstice.
RS> Which is what I told him. I wasn't aware that they finally started
RS> calling it Christmas . . . all the English novels that I've ever read
RS> that dealt with that time of year referred to it as Yule, I'm pretty
RS> sure . . .
GtP> I always thought that, too. But then all the Brits I know
GtP> are either Wiccan, atheist, or SF nuts. . .or all three.
I only know one or two, now that I think about it. One is an
agnostic, I'm sure, and the other is undecided.
GtP>> I don't believe that Richard's little macro is an insult. I
GtP>> had (and I don't really know Latin) kinda translated it to
GtP>> mean something along the lines of "What, am I worried?" I
GtP>> could be wrong. Just about the time I think I've figured it
GtP>> out, I'm wrong.
RS> You've got it right, it's: What, me worry? As in Alfred E.
RS> Neuman, as in Mad Magazine . . .
GtP> That's what Wild said when I asked. It has been just years
GtP> since I read a Mad. I had forgotten. But it seemed obvious
GtP> to me.
I used to love Mad Magazine. Then I started reading the
National Lampoon, and the rest is infamy . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:32:13
EID:b05b 219d9c00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b862
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62cb4
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Fredric Rice <:(
FR> And I don't think Wiccans would take him. Various New
FR> Age metafundies might want him.
GtP> Al is almost New Age as it is. New Agers are just a brand
GtP> of Christian that pines over angels and considers us pagans
GtP> to be unevolved barbarians.
Quite rightly so. I do like New Agers, though . . . the more
PC-Sounding, White-Light Annointing, Trendy Veggan Saucer
Wannabees there are, the more pork chops and beer for me.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:35:48
EID:bcbf 219d9c60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b865
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c63148
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Fredric Rice <:(
FR> How about a contest where theists pray for something to
FR> happen and atheists pray for something else to happen...
FR> We could tally-up the results and use them to show the
FR> value of praying.
GtP> What about us pagans. We don't pray. We light candles and
GtP> chant.
It depends on what type of Pagan you are, I think. Besides,
prayer can be seen in a lot of activities, IMNSHO . . . read
Steinbeck's Cannery Row for Doc's take on stinkbugs and
prayer. If I didn't have all my books packed, I'd gladly
post the excerpt from it . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:38:43
EID:e00c 219d9cc0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b866
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c633ee
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Nate Cookson <:(
gnat> My Favorite Martian was speaking!!! So I just had to
gnat> stop and look in!
GtP> Oh, you like Michael, too? Did you know he was bi?
DM> To me, the main theme of the echo is debunking, but
DM> Tiggy's
gnat> Gee, whiz!!! And here we thought the purpose of this
gnat> echo was so you could call everyone a "Fundy"...
gnat> Glad you finally set us all straight!
GtP> Not everyone. He's never called ME fundy, even though
GtP> I've been told I have an excellent fundament.
You mean that it isn't in arrears?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: God misses victims . . .
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:42:39
EID:23ed 219d9d40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b867
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c63476
};> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
GtP> Heilsa, Richard!
Bendigaid, Gwenny!
>> But every one of the choir's fifteen members escaped
>> injury, saved by a fortuitous coincidence: All were late for
>> practice that night. Considering the sanctified site of the
>> explosion, it was not surprising that some attributed the
>> near miss to divine intervention.
>> They supposed rightly that the odds of unanimous tardiness
>> were slim indeed, especially when the reasons were examined.
GtP> Slim my ass. Why do you think they called it
GtP> "Mormon Standard Time"?
So it isn't that unusual, huh?
RS> Skeptic's take on the above: Gads, the Xtian Deity doesn't
RS> have any better aim than Asmodeus does . . .
GtP> Maybe Asmodeus IS god.
LOL . . . then the fundies get what they deserve . . . btw,
anyone hear anything from Ahardon or Stutters the Clown
lately?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:45:20
EID:1fb0 219d9da0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c70b868
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72d155df
};> Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
LB>> Al's vision of heaven sounds like nothing so much as an
LB>> episode out of The Prisoner.
RS> I was more inclined to think Gilligan's Island, myself . . .
MG> Ginger or Mary Anne....which for you.
Mary Anne, any day. No debate possible.
MG> While the intellectual output of this program wouldn't fill
MG> a chasidic jew's pork pie, it was one of the first "jiggle"
MG> shows.
That and I Dream of Jeannie.
MG> It amazed me some years later to watch an interview with The
MG> University of Texas' best fraternity party hostess, Farah
MG> Fawcett expalining why "Charlie's Angels" was not a jiggle
MG> show.
LOL . . .
MG> Thank goodness we have come so much farther since then, with
MG> shamelessly stacked frauleins that have no acting ability.
MG> Yes, we have surely come a long way.
. . . oh, it must be jelly `cause jam don't shake like that . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:01
EID:8f6c 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008564
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> out of the skillet while they still had food!), I picked
CJ>> up 'em by all fours and sent them into a spin across the
CJ>> floor. No hurt, no harm--but the cat learned. Cats *hate*
CJ>> being suddenly disoriented.
RS> We used a squirt gun. He hated that.
Action at a distance. They just can't figure it out.
CJ>> Remember a sorta rockabilly song a decade ago by the
CJ>> Stray Cats?
RS> Stray Cat Strut. Yep, remember it well . . .
I was drawing a blank on the title. Thanks.
RS> They are in general pretty tough creatures . . . which
RS> is why we have the myth of them having multiple lives. I
RS> once saw a huge dog grab a baby kitten by the neck and just
RS> snap it across the room. The kitten kept trying to get up,
RS> but couldn't life it's head off the floor . . . it had me
RS> convinced that it's neck was broken. Half an hour later, it
RS> was up running around, head held high, as though nothing ever
RS> happened. We once had a cat with brain damage that would
RS> probably have killed another animal (it had been hit by a car
RS> and the skull reshaped), that functioned almost normally for
RS> quite a while after that.
One of the two house cats, Scruffie, got her pelvis broken
somehow (neighborhood kid with a rock?) It healed in 11 days.
I know they have a faster metabolism and less bone to heal, but it
makes quite a contrast to the 9 weeks for my 2 broken wrist bones.
CJ>> But AFAICT, Pink's a complete non-theist.
CJ>> Unless he thinks we're gods he doesn't want to spend
CJ>> all that much time with.
RS> All cats worship themselves.
There's supposedly a Chinese legend that they once ruled
the world, but turned it over to us humans because they preferred
to lie around in the sun.
Egyptian cat worship does not seem to have been as benign
as usually thought. A sampling of the million or so cat mummies
found that nearly all were two years old.
... "The magic words are: squeamish ossifrage."
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1453
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:02
EID:3b2a 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e0085db
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Out of curiousity, on the percentage received/sent: just
CJ>> what is the percentage of? # of messages, or of bytes?
DW> Just from looking at the data, I assumed it was a percentage of
DW> messages. I haven't done any calculations to back this up, and the docs
DW> are unspecific on that point.
DW> I can give you the URL, if you'd like to play with it.
Sure. I don't have full I-net yet, and when I do I'm
likely to be quite busy, but I'm an information squirrel.
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1453
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: heat
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:03
EID:5c88 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008652
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Uh, "ass" and "fool" and "lawyer" are in the Bible.
DC> That, and a bunch of euphamisms to what they call "nasty
DC> sexual deeds", as well as tales of insest, murde, etc. That
DC> leads me to conclude that Jesse never has realy read the bible.
There's a lot in there that never gets quoted in sermons or
Sunday School lessons.
... Just skinny-dipping in the river of time.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: lon mabon ebon
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:04
EID:37a3 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e0086c9
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Rather, it was more of a bureacratic change that teachers
CJ>> recognize that there was a reason their students were regularly
CJ>> making grammatical "errors", and that they could make tell the
CJ>> students that it was OK to speak that way among themselves, but if
CJ>> you wanted to talk to The Man, this was the way to do it.
DM> In my grovellingly humble opinion, any teacher who does not
DM> recognize a local dialect after working with its speakers a year or
DM> so ought to be taken out and shot for incompetence. Getting funding
DM> to "train" these people to recognize what they have been surrounded
DM> by is a waste of money.
I bet the teachers would not be particularly happy about
taking an additional course to get re-certified.
DM> Strangely enough, I was doing this sort of thing in the mid 70s
DM> when I was teaching writing at Mississippi Valley State University.
DM> I talked in terms of there being worse things than a failing grade
DM> on an in-class theme: when their "real" writing, like letters of
DM> application, got dropped into the shitcan largely unread, they would
DM> be hurt more greatly, probably without really knowing what had
DM> happened. (Worse still is having the letters posted on the company
DM> bulletin board, but I didn't mention this one: they would find out
DM> about it after they got hired). I emphasized that their dialect was
DM> a perfectly good one, and that all languages consisted of bundles of
DM> dialects, but that in each language generally one dialect of the
DM> bundle was where the bulk of the money was. I regarded my job as
DM> helping them get to where the money was.
Right. An absolutist "you're speaking incorrectly because
you're ignorant of how language is spoken" is not going to cut it
when nearly everyone important in their personal life is speaking
the same way.
But a "you can still speak to the Man in his terms to get
what you want, and he still won't be able to understand what
you're saying in your personal life" approach would appeal to
slyness.
CJ>> Finally, this proposal came because it was found that when
CJ>> this approach was used experimentally in one or a handful of
CJ>> schools, it resulted in improved English scores!
DM>
DM> Like the claims of fundies regarding the impact of abortion on
DM> breast cancer, I should like to see how other variables were
DM> excluded in these experiments: treating the dialect (and thereby the
DM> kids themselves) as valid may be enough to have this effect without
DM> anything specific being done about dialectal usage.
I wouldn't rule it out; but I don't have the details.
PH>>> This "Black English" thing is ridiculous. All it is is ungrammatical
PH>>> English slang and lazy speech, not very much different from the speech
PH>>> traditionally used by uneducated people.
CJ>> I suspect this gentleman would also sneer at Missouri
CJ>> hillbilly speech--which is the most pristine survivorship of
CJ>> Elizabethan English, the speech Shakespeare used.
DM> And letters to General Motors in pristine Elizabethan English
DM> from Missouri will be xeroxed and widely circulated, while their
DM> author remains in Missouri.
True. But the language is still rapidly evolving, and it
is a reminder that present-day American "Standard" will sound
ridiculous in a couple of centuries. And we've already had a
caustic comment from Chris Green about which dialect is the true
standard.
CJ>> Dialect has always been tied up with class. England itself
CJ>> is a notorious example.
DM> All dialects reflect both location and class, since like lives
DM> with like at what it can afford and since we learn to speak by
DM> speaking to those within earshot. Mannheim Deutsch had the
DM> reputation of being the most peasantish (Bauernisch) when I was
DM> learning German.
"High" and "Low" German are quite different dialects; just
how different, and are they actually dialect collections?
CJ>> It boils down to the question of when a dialect becomes a
CJ>> language,
DM> When the speakers of that dialect gain control of the money. As
DM> we keep saying on HolySmoke, a cult is a religion without political
DM> power, or as Chairman Mao might have put it: Linguistic acceptance
DM> comes through the barrel of a gun.
Or, the Golden Rule of the Language: He who has the gold
to own the press, makes the grammatical rules. (Note the
nonsensical idea that in the 18th century, when the English upper
class was trained in Latin, of trying to force English grammar into
the Latin mold.)
Local fundymania: this Saturday I saw a sign at the
Lexington Mall entrance to the subway spouting Gnat's breast
cancer-abortion claim.
And at the same location, a black street preacher was
attempting to prove that the Bible stated that the white race has
an inborn tendency to be homosexual.
... Hark! Is that light being shed, or smoke being spread?
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: suck up!
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:05
EID:1aa4 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008740
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
FR>> David and I will need to do something for our new brother... maybe
FR>> find us another pair of matching Ruger .22's so all three of us can
FR>> terrorize the township together.
CJ>> You three could always hang out at the town dump and shoot
CJ>> rats.
DM> And yet another parallel to HolySmoke rolls down the wires.
It's too easy to shoot gnats when they're inside the gun
barrel.
... "Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not an actor!"
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:06
EID:d6f4 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e0087b7
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> You don't think he's getting off on the idea of women
CJ>> who've had abortions getting breast cancer? The guy has a
CJ>> Madonna/whore complex with a vicious twist. He'd love hearing
DH> Many of the modern ignorant fundies wouldn't stoop so low. They
DH> just sit in the dark arousing themselves with fantasies about their
DH> unconditionally loving god handing out this kind of torture. I'll
DH> bet this one would be almost as happy if the study had (um) proved
DH> that men who advocate abortion get prostate cancer. And would be
DH> just as likely to believe it, precicely because it caters so
DH> well to the Wiens Fantasy of a Just World According to Him.
This breast cancer thing seems to be a recent big theme
among the "pro-lifers." This last Saturday I noticed a poster
proclaiming it by a subway stop.
... Conference host? CoHo? Isn't that a salmon?
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: superstion
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:07
EID:a4b5 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e00882e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 27 Dec 96 08:01pm, ROGER HUNTER wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
RH>> Oh, no. The prophecy said his bones would not be broken. He HAD to
RH>> "die" before that could happen.
AS>> Maybe He had poison in a hollow tooth, and crunched it to make sure
AS>> he would die before they could break it.
RH> Doubtful. But he did "taste" of some liquid on a sponge.
And at least one of the Big 4 specifically states that it
was myrrh. And myrrh was used as a soporific, for instance, being
given to adulteresses before being strangled.
AS>> Could be. Agreed on beforehand? Then He is knowingly helping with a
AS>> fraud.
RH> No, just helping make the prophecies come true. He wouldn't see it
RH> as a fraud.
RH>
AS>> Good. What sort of version WOULD you buy?
RH> The Passover Plot is what I'm arguing from. It was written by
RH> someone familiar with the language and culture of the time.
RH> Makes sense to me.
Schoenfeld's scenario is interesting, but he explicitly
states that it is speculative. IMHO, the other half of the book,
when he gives background, is much more valuable.
You'd probably also enjoy his much more recent _The Jesus
Party_, which explores the probable participation of the Jerusalem
Church in anti-Roman activities and the 66-70 AD rebellion.
He also wrote an earlier study of Paul, in which he argued
that Paul probably thought of himself as a messiah.
... This is a copy of the original tagline.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:08
EID:de70 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e0088a5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> By now you saw that I finally had my Al OD. It had indeed
CJ>> lost its humor, and I lost my patience.
RV> Surprise you kept it up as long as you did. Well, You did try. A lost
RV> cause is a lost cause.
I don't think all that much new was coming out in the last
few rounds about his version of the anthropic principle, anyway.
The "Easter Eats" thread would have been interesting to
carry on. My own wild idea, and I'm mildly surprised at how good
an argument can be made for it.
For instance--to make it seasonal--"born in a manger."
A manger is not the stable of the popular misunderstanding; it is
an eating trough.
CJ>> Ten hours to go. At least I've caught a good station that
CJ>> *isn't* playing Christmas music.
RV> You must be in Heaven, we aren't that luckie in this area. I'm sure
RV> they start that crap in October, then it just gets worst and worst_Ter.
>
Do you sing "Auld Lang Syne" on New Year's?
... Smilie when you type that, pardneh.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: heat
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:09
EID:4cb3 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e00891c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>>> As the fundies are insecure about their Christian beliefs?
GT>>> At least as insecure -- that's why they try so hard to force the
GT>>> belief of others; they crave the support for their own belief.
CJ>> Rather amusing that the guy I addressed this to (Jesse Jones), thought
CJ>> atheists were here because *they* were insecure, but left within two
CJ>> weeks of posting that.
GT> Yeah, but Jesse's been here for years. I, personally, think he
GT> persevered very well, even if he was getting a little weird toward the
GT> end.
Most of the time he sounded as if he were one of the more
rational fundies. But the truth will out.
... Commercials: mosquitoes of the mind.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: darkness
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:10
EID:974f 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008993
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
GT>>> I always liked the theory that the "beloved" disciple was Mary of
GT>>> Magdalene.
CJ>> He did supposedly see her first on his return visit.
GT> Yeah, and he asked her not to touch him. The Mormons say it was because
GT> they were husband and wife and her touching him would distract him or
GT> interfere with the godding process of something. (The Mormons believe
GT> that Jeshua had at least one wife)
GT>>> So, where can I go to see this.
CJ>> Epheseus, Greece. But you have to eat ergot-infected rye bread first.
GT> Of course. The Mormon says he is still running around (as
are
GT> the four Nephites) doing good deeds.
I've heard there's a widespread urban legend about drivers
picking up hitchikers who prophesy the end of the world and
disappear and who are the Nephites.
Could you give me a little background on the origin of
these Nephites? I know it was one of the supposed N American
tribes.
... Can I help you?--Alex Gt. You're blocking the sun. Move.--Diog.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:11
EID:7063 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008a0a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> I can offer some anecdotal confirmation--the 3 translations I have
now
CJ>> I rescued from the alley. And I have left at least two "Good News"
CJ>> translations lay there. I have never seen more than 2 copies of any
CJ>> other book in the alley.
GT> You just didn't look in the right cans. Five years ago you could have
GT> found three Book of Mormons and all the associated workbooks and
GT> handbooks in a trash can in a shopping center on the corner of Star
GT> Ranch and 115 S in Colorado Springs. Filled the blamed thing right
GT> up. Now I shudder at the how much those books cost and the fact that
I
GT> COULD just throw away a book.
I would have left them lying there. I already have a BoM,
but have found it completely unreadable. My I should try that
drinking game someone else suggested.
CJ>> Constantine was not the immediate successor of Diocletian, nor did
CJ>> Eusebius receive such a commission. Constantine also subsidized pagan
CJ>> religion, and kept the pagan religious title _pontifex maximus_.
GT> Constatine was a Mithras worshipper.
Plausible, but just what he actually was still seems to be
controversial. My take is that like a true politician, he put
himself as a Mithraist to Mithrans, a Christian to Christians,
etc.
... Space is nothing but elbow room.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 29 Dec 96 19:04:12
EID:8701 219d9880
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9e008a81
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> What is the size of a 12-week fetus? Answer her question,
CJ>> Gnat.
GT> Tried to slip out of answering, didn't he.
And I bet he'll keep on trying to avoid it.
CJ>> Ever do any hunting or live on a farm, or even squish a
CJ>> roach, to watch the reactions of an animal after it's already
CJ>> dead? But are you a vegetarian?
GT> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I think) that
GT> they put two cabbages in a room together, with electrodes on one of
GT> them, and a person went in and cut the other to pieces. The first
GT> cabbage went ballistic. . .well, for a cabbage. Later they paraded
GT> quite a few people through the room, and when the cabbage murder came
GT> in, the first cabbage recognized him.
I have to say I'm skeptical that you read that in
_Discover_.
What is true is that when the foliage of many plants is
macerated, compounds are released into the air that cause nearby
plants to react by increasing their production of
pest-discouraging compounds. If cabbage is such a plant, then it
may be plausible that the change-over in metabolic activity could
be electrically detectable.
As for the recognition, he/she may still have smelled of
cabbage, setting off the same effect.
... Ceci n'est pas une tagline.
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Gawd was wrong?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:56:25
EID:35e6 219d7700
Whilst masticating on , Al Schroeder (1:116/17)
wrote to Alan Hess:
AS> I give rules to my kids. For instance, though sometimes I leave
AS> my ten year old at home unattended, he is forbidden to use the
AS> microwave, for fear he will misjudge the time when cooking
AS> popcorn, and start a fire. I will not expect to have to give that
AS> same rule to him when he is eighteen. I haven't changed. He has.
However, you are not a perfect, omnipotent, omnisicient being, as God is
supposed to be. You CAN make mistakes - God is not supposed to be capable
of being wrong. That means that either his original laws were flawed, and
required changing after time, or that God did not foresee man changing.
A perfect, all-knowing deity would have given perfect rules that would never
need amending.
--- MsgedSQ/2 3.35
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Dec 96 18:25:37
EID:6adc 219d9320
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 dca9a86a
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c629df
On (29 Dec 96) Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Marilyn Burge...
Gt> I had no idea there were so many. But then, I wouldn't be in
Gt> the position to know. Wild says he took the Triple Nine test
Gt> on a dare and passed it. But he said he never joined because
Gt> "they are more boring than the St. Andrews Society."
Gt> ARGGGGGHHHH! That's scary.
My favorite Mensa story is about the woman I knew who was living
with some guy at the time she took the test. She swears that he
deliberately started a bickering contest with her on the ride to
the test, causing her to break her concentration, which in turn
made her "flunk" the test. Desperate to join, she inquired and
found out that she could not retake the test, but that she could
submit prior test results that would enable her to join, if the
scores were "good" enough. After a couple of years of searching,
she found out that she had taken an IQ test in grade school. She
contacted the New York City school system, and after a frustrating
delay, typical of all bureaucracies, they sent her the score she
had achieved in the second grade on a now-defunct test. It took
Mensa another year of research to determine that the score was
above the cutoff point.
After about 2-3 years of frustration, she was able to join. I find
it hard to believe that joining could be that important to
anybody.
We were coming up an escalator at the Embarcadero Regency Hyatt
with our name tags on, and a fellow at the landing saw us and said
"gee, you two are members of MENSA!!!?? like it was some big deal.
In order to put him at ease, I shrugged and said something like
"we got lucky on a test one Saturday morning," and smiled. She
spent the next two hours giving me a tongue- lashing because I had
belittled our "accomplishment."
You're right; they are a bore, for the most part.
Gt> Bottom line is, I will never qualify for any of them. No use
Gt> pining about it. My only fear is getting caught in some
Gt> disaster or catastrophe with a bunch of them. The thought of
Gt> being the only person with real world skills who knows how to
Gt> use a can opener TERRIFIES me.
Fear not. They'll all be so busy arguing about some esoteric
minutiae, they won't even know you're around, which will enable
you to pretend they're not around, either.
... I think he's a few channels short of Basic Cable
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 29 Dec 96 20:04:44
EID:458f 219da080
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c6cf52
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 9e793bf0
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
27 Dec 96 23:11, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB> Zero is of category: 'number.'
JB> Zero alcoholism is of category: 'alcoholism.'
JB> Zero hair is of category: 'hair.'
JB> Zero belief is of category: 'belief.'
JB> All apples, no oranges.
JB> You're debunked.
Quantum Moron. Zero is a number, just like 1 or -1. Not drinking
is not a degree of alcoholism. Baldness is not a hair color.
Not believing is not a form of belief.
Have a drink, John. Really, you sound like you could use one.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 29 Dec 96 20:11:17
EID:458f 219da160
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c6d1ca
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 b68ee24c
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
28 Dec 96 10:10, quoting John Brawley to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> (*grin*) You think "zero" is "well-defined?" Haw! If defined at
JB> all, its definition is _arbitrary_.
Zero is well defined, John. How so is zero not defined? How so is it
arbitrary? Please be specific.
Zero is an element in a set when added to any other element of a set
ALWAYS produces a sum identical to that element. You are welcome to
give me a contradictory example.
You are also welcome to a whole shopfull of bait.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 29 Dec 96 21:49:15
EID:4678 219dae20
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6e77a
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 3b2bb63d
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
26 Dec 96 15:12, John Brawley wrote to Al Schroeder:
JB> But I don't go out much,
Does this really come as a surprise to anyone?
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: feed
|Date: 29 Dec 96 21:44:29
EID:d104 219dad80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6e675
REPLY: 1:229/622 32c59893
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
28 Dec 96 21:58, Dave Hamilton wrote to Judith Bandsma:
DH> Hmm. I would say to set your program to emulate ANSI and make sure
DH> it isn't doing any translations of carriage returns to something
DH> else. When you connect, it should give you a one-line message to
DH> the effect of 'Press ESCape to connect to the BBS' and once you
DH> do, you should be in.
DH> It is possible (though unlikely) that all four sessions were full.
DH> Please give it another whirl when you get a chance.
Unlikely? I find it quite common to get a "Busy" response.
Of course, I generally only try after midnight. It might be different at
other times.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 29 Dec 96 21:47:22
EID:7fda 219dade0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6e70b
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
28 Dec 96 20:57, Damien Wellman wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
DW> 'Course, that only counts for GOOD WV jokes. If I hear one more "I
DW> didn't know you had computers in West Virginia" joke, I may do a
DW> imitation of that one infamous disgruntled postal worker. :)
I didn't know you had postal workers in West Virginia.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:06:01
EID:6377 219db0c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6eb6a
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e2
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
27 Dec 96 08:52, Steve Hayes wrote to David Worrell:
SH>> There are some questions that people need to answer for
SH>> themselves,
DW>> I see. You are disregarding a command from the being you claim to
DW>> follow. You must be one of those False Christian Scum we keep
DW>> hearing so much about.
SH> ... David Worrell's mindless ad hominems continue
... Steve Hayes's mindless dodging continues
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: feed
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:06:41
EID:a9d6 219db0c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6eba1
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB4
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
21 Dec 96 07:08, Judith Bandsma wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
JB> Here, have some fudge. A brownie. Toll-house cookies. CHOCOLATE PIE.
I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that the Pie was
all they had to worry about. Was she lying, or am I somehow special? :)
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: truth
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:07:52
EID:93d6 219db0e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6ebdc
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c34ee8
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
27 Dec 96 04:21, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
JJ>> Well, David, as Bobby Dylan sang, You gotta serve
JJ>> somebody. It may be the devil, or it may be the Lord, but ya
JJ>> gotta serve somebody.
SQ> He can't answer any of the questions we put to him, and he's off
SQ> begging ANOTHER goddamned question.
He figured quoting Jung had no effect, so he tried Dylan.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:09:26
EID:209a 219db120
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6ec3b
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c3f97e
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026
27 Dec 96 16:29, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to David Worrell:
GtP>>> Yes, the exception being women who wear size 11 shoes and
GtP>>> rings,
DW>> A size eleven ring? That's no ring - it's a discus with a hole cut
DW>> out of it.
GP> Yeah, it'd probably slide right off your dick. . .
Is this the best you're capable of?
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:29:54
EID:4bfc 219d73a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c68080
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc2
PID: GED3 2.5
Friday December 27 1996 22:40, Mimi Milstein wrote to Glen Todd:
MM> Nah, I don't mind..... I actually enjoy this kind of trolling
MM> banter. Dave is after all headmaster of 'The School of Snide
MM> Remarks'. I just keep my ammo dry and wait for the right
MM> moment :-) He is a great teaser
Yer gonna make me blush if you keep that up. :)
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:35:51
EID:a704 219d7460
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c68288
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday December 26 1996 17:16, Roger Hunter wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
GTP>> who attacks my family, most of whom are too young or busy to
GTP>> post here, loses my affection.
Ain't that a damn shame?
RH>> .GIFs, we want .GIFs!
GTP>> Sorry, after David Worrell's misogynist rabbling about "fat"
GTP>> women, I would not expose myself or my family to that kind of
GTP>> ridicule.
You'd better have a talk with Glen, then. He tells me he's gonna post an
image somewhere.
I do like how you transubstantiated my "attack" on your daughter to an attack
on all "fat" women. Keep thrashing about, ok?
GTP>> I've had almost 25 years to adjust to it, but my
GTP>> spouse and kids still haven't adjusted to the fact that some
GTP>> people can be such assholes. I
And I can do this without even breaking a sweat. You ought to see me when
I really put my back into it.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:39:08
EID:eabd 219d74e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c682a3
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday December 26 1996 17:16, Roger Hunter wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
RH> I've noted his postings and I really can't understand his attitude.
That is unsurprising.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:46:00
EID:2221 219d75c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c68460
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 616f4039
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday December 26 1996 10:21, Bill Wolff wrote to Martin Goldberg:
BW> Oh btw, since Carl Sagan and I agree on so many issues, then when
BW> you mistakenly call me a fundy, it's like calling Carl Sagan one as
BW> well. Sadly, you disagree with me and Carl Sagan on so many views.
If there's anything worse than Argument from Authority, its Argument from
Authority when you don't understand what the authority is saying.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 29 Dec 96 14:51:15
EID:1254 219d7660
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c6858a
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A60D863
PID: GED3 2.5
Friday December 27 1996 10:15, Judith Bandsma wrote to Al Schroeder:
JB> With Prewett calling Lynda a 'catty bitch' just about the time the
JB> channel was getting going. She adopted it as her nick.
JB> Those of us who have not been declawed decided to follow suit.
And Jimbo has adopted "PoutyCat," at least when the rest of you are not
around.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: feed
|Date: 29 Dec 96 15:00:27
EID:a9d6 219d7800
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c687d0
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E17
PID: GED3 2.5
Tuesday December 24 1996 16:47, Judith Bandsma wrote to Dave Hamilton:
DH>> Anyone is invited to call. The address is bbs.sbase.com.
DH>> I've got 4 telnet sessions going, and am delighted to see
JB> I tried to telnet in yesterday using NetTerm. The program said I was
JB> connected but I never got anything but a blank screen. What did I do
JB> wrong?
You weren't really connected - all of his telnet connections were likely
in use. I've noticed it is busy damn near all the time.
I haven't been able to connect since that first time.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:00:00
EID:20d7 219c5800
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F0
MH>-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> DR> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
MH> DR> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
MH> DR> in each.
MH> MH> fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
MH> AS> Is that anything like kung fu? I hate to ask what you break boards
MH> AS> with in THAT discipline...
MH> I'm not really into the discipline thing ... ;)
What is the Christian belief , if not discipline ?
^ thats to keep you happy.
* SLMR 2.1a * Get Drunk And Kick Your Ass For Jesus.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:03:00
EID:1e06 219c5860
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F1
MH> AS> His search is not over yet; nor is anybody's here, who is honestly
MH> AS> questing and not found an answer. And if you think you have the
MH> AS> answer, you have a duty not to scorn him. Peter thought he would
never
MH> AS> deny Jesus...and Jesus told him, sadly, that he would deny Him three
MH> AS> times. Yet Jesus appeared to Peter after the Resurrection and made
him
MH> AS> the leader of the apostles when they first started out. And he
denied
MH> AS> Him AFTER he had travelled with Him for months.
MH> Appreciated.
W H Y ?
Why should you care, what anyone thinks ?
* SLMR 2.1a * Get a taste of reglion ..... Lick a witch!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:06:00
EID:9a29 219c58c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F2
MH>-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> MH> holdover from our pre-scientific age. OTOH, there may *be* a god
who
MH> MH> designed us to value those things, in which case we honor God by
MH> MH> valuing those things, rather than worrying about whose beliefs are
MH> MH> "right."
MH> LB> Very nicely put!
MH> :-) Thanks.
So, which god ?
* SLMR 2.1a * Get back at your Enemies. Make'em S Y S O P S !
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 28 Dec 96 15:22:00
EID:02f7 219c7ac0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F3
> CJ> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
> RV> D O N ' T !! do that, Al will believe your sucking up to him.
AS> Nope. That's Lynda's job, to insinuate that others believe in Hardy's
AS> "sucking up".
Since the Great God Be_LIE_v_ER Hardy, has so called change his tune,
with out a reason given. It's a toss up as to bait or fishing. At this
point it's, still at that fishing stage. With no bait on the hook.
As far as any in the modem land knows, his wife, may have taken a turn
for the worst and he's pissed off at his god. Many things in life can
change, and do. How that change is taken in life , is
another point all together. What Mike 'The Pea Brain' believes and what
happens to 'pea brain', in the long run, only time will tell.
Since Mike, like you did/do support the Death Cult, it would be a long
time before i would allow a child to be around them. A belief in demons and gods of killing and rapeing of humans,
isn't a belief, i would want any child of mine, expose too.
That's me and i do admit, I'm prejudice to the belief of Your God,
and the ways of displaying love to humans and the cult followers of
YOUR God and their display of love to humans. The Pagen belief system,
again i may not like all that much, but at least i may get my kid back
alive with a chance on mental health, or just alive.
Mike has got a long way to go yet, what ever road he is traveling.
Fake or not, it appears to be a question as to how right he may be
and which god is real. This is assumeing that 'His Question is Real'
that also has yet to be showen.
Gratis is not given, it's earned. Somewhat like the pagen idea of
reincarnation and the many life/lives idea. As to what the person is
really like in life , is still in the unkowen stage.
He left as a fundy, and a month or two later comes back as one who
questions a god or which god. Life and liveing tell me, that those who
do that aren't really different, that i may be wrong is a posibble, like
i say a year or so down that line, may convince me that the change is a
life change, then perhaps i may buy the change. Till then, who knows
for sure. Hitler pulled that act for a reason and look where that got
the world. You should always question, even those who may act like they
support your point of view, more so when they differ from your point of
view, going by the pass.
nattering again..........a pinch of salt tossed over your shoulder,
I myth again
Dam, nearly forgot this..............
AS> Expect me to instead wear you out in every post
AS> you make to someone else until you apologize.
RV> ok
>*<-------------------------------------------------->*<
Al is perfect -this could be a lie-
Al is always Al right -this is the 'Al Truth Table'-
Al always has the Proper Christian Point of View -this could be a lie-
Al's God never blocks Humans FreeWill. -See Al's truth table-
Al's God never fuck's over his play toys -see humans- See Truth table-
Al & his God, displays great humanity -See Al's truth table-
>*<--------------------------------------------------->*<
>*< -- Reply not needed -- >*<
By Al S. but he is welcome
to write his novels.
>*<--------------------------------------------------->*<
Note 1: His 3 in 1 god still is welcome for a beer
but likely is too chicken to show up.
Note 2: [ 3 in 1 god could also be a 7 in 1 god. ]
[ See Al's logic truth table on math & god ]
Note 3: For Al's God ---- see ----
[ Anthropic - "see cart before a horse" - ML ]
Note 4: Evidence of an Al's god -see- what ever sounds good.
- More Al's evidence - see bible -
>*<---------------------------------------------------->*<
* SLMR 2.1a * Get the facts first. You can distort them later.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 28 Dec 96 12:35:00
EID:374b 219c6460
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F4
RS> };> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
RS> DC> On (23 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
RS> SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait
a
RS> SA> minute....
RS> js> Out of obedience to His Father.
RS> DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
RS> RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
RS> DC> You nailed that one right on!
RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one home . . .
You !, just had to spike that, didn't you ?
* SLMR 2.1a * God not found. Deleting OMNI.*
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: God Al and Rape a Child
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:09:00
EID:a25b 219c6920
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F5
> RV> So as a Christian, you also support the rape of kids. In the long
run,
> RV> it's how God wants it, and Al supports what his God wants ?
AS> No to my supporting, and no to that's how God wants it.
Rape of kids, has much evidence to support the fact it happens, the
floating of an Axe Head is very vage. God, Your God supports the axe
Head bit < going by the book of lies>, Your God wants kids to be rape,
again going by the . You also have varify that you support
Your God, therefor you have to support the rapeing of the
kids. It's Your God, It's Your Book, It's Your Belief. It's your belief
that You as a HUMAN, Can't interfear with Your God's Action. Till you
can show that Your God doesn't want a child to be Rape,
we must go by the Book Of Lies, that Your God, does want a child to be
rape. The bible as evidence, the fact that Christians rape kids, and
Your All Powerful God, allows axe heads to Float and kids to be raped.
The fact that You may stop a Rape of a Child, isn't a given. The Fact
that You believe in Your God is a Given. Going by the pass posting and
support that Your God can do dam well as hir wants.
AS> RV> But save that chunk of iron, it's more importaint then a childs
mental
AS> RV> health.
AS> By no means.
Your God doesn't float axe heads, Your God doesn't kill kids, Your God
doesn't abuse humans. Which Book Of God, are you following.
AS> RV> Cute Al. Nice God you worship. Great fine tuning there, warp a kid
AS> RV> for life or better still, kill it for Christ. [part of that 3 in
1
AS> Even better yet.
This . . . should be rich
AS> Realize that anything worth giving must be FREELY given.
Like what Al. Free pain, deform humans, destroyer of knowledge
destroyer of life.
AS> Not forced.
And of course you can show, Your God By Your Book, never Forced any
life form. Right ?
AS> Not dictated.
What book are you reading ? Sounds like one that has never showen up on
planet earth.
AS> Not given because of what He does for us, or what He protects us
So Al, the all knowing human of god's mind. What did Your God, do for me
today. What did Your God do for the Child that was rape ToDay. Did Your
God ease the suffering of a child by no Child being Rape Today anywhere
in the world. Just a one time thing Al, to show a Real God and a Real
possible Love of life. Just once Al, Just Once. Can you show that Your
God really, really Cares about anything a human may do to another human.
Some how, I don't think you can.
AS> from....including our love for Him.
* SLMR 2.1a * God said to Moses,"Pull my finger." And the Red Sea parte
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 28 Dec 96 13:12:00
EID:8546 219c6980
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F6
AS> AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
AS> RV> So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
AS> So who's the Second Foundation?
As a guess, those who expanded their minds.
* SLMR 2.1a * Godless Athiests _____Compounded Redundancy Alert!____
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al debunks Apple Sauce
|Date: 28 Dec 96 15:29:00
EID:fe18 219c7ba0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F7
Subj: Al debunks Apple Sauce Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> AS> Appleton. He will just pull the snippets from his quote book and think
> AS> he's proven something, without even realizing how he's debunked himself
> RV>
> RV> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now
> RV> Al. Look to what your saying here.
> RV> The fact the god thumpers drag a god out of some bible and wave it
all
> RV> over the place is no different then Sir Apple Sauce . Actually,
> RV> Sir Apple Sauce is closer to telling the truth. At least his
> RV> characters, in his fantasy have lived and others can check their pass
> RV> lives and any writeing done by said character. The thumpers of god
or
> RV> gods, can't even pull that much EVIDENCE for their fantasy.
AS> Well, for instance, Ron, in the last few years we have fond a stela,
AS> written about a century after David supposedly lived, referring to the
AS> house of David. There seems to be some historical basis for at least
part
And what does that show. . . other then there was a house/thought/idea
lead by some person by the name of David. How does this idea, show or
give any E V I D E N C E of a god or better still, the God You
Believe in ? One may think that the answer is, N O N E, or
if there was, you would of presented it.
AS> of it. (Which is physical evidence more than we have for, say, Socrates.)
Sure Al, change the debate, Ok. So how does the ideas of Socrates,
dictate my language or my liveing standards, just compare it to
how various CHRISTIANS BELIEFS or BELIEVERS would like to control my
life. Which standard of a posible person/idea is the better idea
to follow, which idea effects me. When i say 'me', I mean in the
now 'time frame' not some idea 'time frame' ? ie: not after i'm dead
and burned and the ash is scattered . . .
AS> Practically anything from longer ago than say, 600 years ago, the evidence
AS> gets slimmer and slimmer as time goes on.
Do tell. A God standard with no evidence of a god idea. Lots of abuse
followed, by following the god standard though or are you going to give
evidence that a god standard is the better idea to follow. Abuse be dam.
AS> RV> Better be careful, of who debunks whom.
AS> But how about someone who takes a source and quotes it selectively out
of
AS> context? Where there is a lot of evidence, and he quotes things in such
a
And those from the head of some church, don't push the idea of a
God's LOVE. A God, Careing ?
Do they also push the idea that people should rape, bash kids against
the wall, drown an army for believeing in the wrong person . Do they also teach that to save an axe head is
better then saveing a child from rape. Do they Al. I don't think so.
From my last experence of the lies from the head of a church, they
natter about gods love, jesus love, human love BUT they didn't say
anything about the love of KILLING HUMANS. Hell, that part in the so
called Good Book didn't seem to be brought up. Surely if they are going
to be Truthful and Fair, that also should be mention. Guess What, that
part was never mention. I wonder why . . . ?
AS> way as to make it seem it says something completely different from the
AS> author's intent? That's what Appleton is doing. And that's why I slam
him
AS> for it.
Going back to what i did say. Apple Sauce is lieing less then
the heads of the Christian Belief System. At least, he does
presents quotes from those of the liveing or those who have
lived. You have yet to show any quote from the hand of Your God.
You have Yet To Show that YOUR God, did ever LIVE.
Though i don't read much of Apple Sauce, I've yet to see him
support that the rape of a child is allowed, but save the axe
head from a bath in water. I have seen your support that an all
knowing god, allows this because it's what that god wants.
You have display support for a God of abuse, Apple sauce just
so far, has support the abuse of various human quotes. Like I said
, I maybe wrong, since i read so little of his lies, I mean posts.
* SLMR 2.1a * Graduate of Darth Vader School of Personnel Management
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Glen and a question ?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 15:08:00
EID:81bd 219c7900
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C608F8
GT>Heilsa, Ronald Vass!
GT>While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Ronald
Vass
GT>whisper furtively to Al Schroeder something about DAVIES THEE:
GT>RV> I think you would also enjoy his writeing. I did wonder where he
was
GT>RV> going with a toss out of 'mother earth' and a 'creator'. Almost sounds
GT>RV> as if he had two god types in there, a minor and a major.
GT>Vanir and Aesir; the gods of the world around us and the gods of the
folk so
GT>of our people. What could be easier or more obvious?
It would appear from his way of writeing, mother earth, led to the
form of the animal, the creator was the cause of mother earth. The
spirt/soul of the animal return/made it's way, to the creator of all.
Didn't, persay, say it was a one shot deal.
* SLMR 2.1a * HUNTING LODGE RESTROOM SIGNS...SETTERS and POINTERS
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 27 Dec 96 18:25:00
EID:5bbc 219b9320
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A62437C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ> Heb 6:4-8 "For it is impossible to restore again to
DC> [..]
JJ> from God. (8) But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless
JJ> and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over."
MH> Hmmmmm .... I THINK you just told me to go to hell.
DC> But, Mikey, it was the truly xian thing to say! After all, it
DC> is in the bible!
Hm. But Al didn't do it. Is Al not a Real True Christian? :-)
MH> How does this square with Jesus telling Peter he should forgive those
MH> who wrong him "seventy times seven?"
DC> 240100 seems to be the correct answer to that. ;)
So it would. :)
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 27 Dec 96 18:28:00
EID:d89c 219b9380
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A62437D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
RS> Nor does Al remember being weaned . . . yet I bet he doesn't
RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
MH> Yeah, I'm sure he has a much better cover story than that ... ;-)
DC> You seem pretty brassiere of yourself.
So? You wanna make something of tit?
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 27 Dec 96 18:28:00
EID:8f79 219b9380
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A62437E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Curtis Johnson to Michael Hardy <=-
AS>> Looking at some of the distinguished scientists who have been
AS>> theists...Copernicus, Newton, Mendel, Lemaitre, to cover a large span
AS>> of centuries...I cannot help but disagree.
CJ>> And distinguished scientists who have been frank atheists
CJ>> or agnostistics?
CJ>> Even supposedly theistic scientists have a nasty habit of
CJ>> saying that their god is rather different from the Biblical God
CJ>> you go by. For instance, I have run across quotes by Einstein
CJ>> where he seems to say that God = Mystery (of Universe, etc.)
MH> And note how most of the scientists he lists are not contemporary.
MH> Copernicus and Newton, while scientists, lived well before there was
MH> enough known to bring the perceived need for a Designer into serious
MH> question.
CJ> Teleology certainly seems to have lost its explanatory
CJ> power.
Yeah, but that's what it was designed for. ;-)
... E=MC Hammer.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ...of Echos and books...
|Date: 27 Dec 96 18:29:00
EID:840f 219b93a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A62437F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Michael Hardy <=-
RC> I saw you mention that you are reading *Losing Faith in Faith*
MH> Yeah, I've finished it. The concluding section, on whether the
MH> Bible is a good moral guide, is a powerfully argued case.
RC>
RC> Funny, that isn't the concluding section in the copy I've been
RC> reading.
Hmmm ... perhaps it's been revised. I borrowed a fairly old copy. Is
that section in there at all?
RC> Well, I would be interested in what sections of the book you find the
RC> least valid. Differences interest me more than agreements.
Some of the Bible "errors" or contradictions that he lists I *still*
find fairly easily explained. Others, though, I feel relieved not
having to do mental gymnastics over anymore.
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 27 Dec 96 18:31:00
EID:8e62 219b93e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624380
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Marty Leipzig <=-
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very
ML> unusual. Might it be that we're being set up for a
ML> grand Hardyesque jape?
RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
RS> jape . . .
Oh ye ... er, we ... of little faith! :-)
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:13:00
EID:1136 219d89a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624381
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Michael Hardy <=-
MB> I guess you can call the above both bad news and good news.
MB> It's been a long, long two months, but, hopefully, the worst
MB> is about over.
MH> My sympathies, Marilyn. I share your hope that the worst is
MH> about over.
MB> Alas, it was not to be. She has the CAT-scan, which will determine
MB> the extent of the lung cancer (which is the source of the brain
MB> cancer) today.
:( I'm sorry to hear that. And don't know anything to say that would be
at all helpful ...
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good'
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:14:00
EID:a650 219d89c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624382
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ> And that too sadly is true.
JJ> Anyone care to buy a clue?
mh> I have a free one ... good people do good things, bad
mh> people do bad things ... no matter what religion they
mh> profess to follow, and no matter if they believe in no god.
FR> Goat! You realize I've been saying the same thing, using nearly the
FR> same exact words, for years?!
Well, yes, I do. :-)
FR> I have often further opined that religion grants justification for
FR> both doing good and bad things but that doing good doesn't require
FR> justification.
You're right.
... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:15:00
EID:c2c3 219d89e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624383
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ> Michael, as I said to you before you elected to join ranks
JJ> with the Rice Brothers
FR>
mh> I can assure you ... or could have if you had not
mh> fled the echo ... I've joined ranks with no one.
FR> I'm disappointed. David already set a place at the table for you.
Didn't say anything about turning down a dinner invitation ... :-)
... For every action, there is an equal and opposite rationalization.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:18:00
EID:c119 219d8a40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624384
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Martin Goldberg <=-
MG> He is questioning what is found int he bible. Don't go tot he
MG> typical fundy tactic of telling him that hte bible is true becasue
MG> the bible says tht it's true.
SQ> He pulled a very typical Fundamentalist tactic of seeing things in
SQ> terms of black and white: Because Michael wasn't sitting there
SQ> alongside him, shooting b.b.'s at "heathens," he was to be lumped in
SQ> with the evil "Rice Brothers." Great stuff from a guy who was trying
to
SQ> dodge the tough questions by calling me a "Fundamentalist" last week.
Amen! Preach, brother! ;-)
... I've made up my mind. Now to find some facts ...
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Suck up!
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:20:00
EID:bc92 219d8a80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624385
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Curtis Johnson <=-
RV> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that
rv>> with the Perfect Al, ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ>> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
RV> D O N ' T !! do that, Al will believe your sucking up to him.
cj> ROTFL!
FR> Hey, Jesse Christ Jones claimed Hardy was now one of the Rice
FR> brothers. What a wonderful compliment! When Hardy exhibits
FR> freethought and _REASON_ he becomes one of us Rice brothers!
FR> David and I will need to do something for our new brother... maybe
FR> find us another pair of matching Ruger .22's so all three of us can
FR> terrorize the township together.
LOL!
... E=MC Hammer.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Rice Brothers
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:20:00
EID:0156 219d8a80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624386
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Steve Quarrella <=-
iJcJ> Michael, as I said to you before you elected
ijcj> to join ranks with the Rice Brothers,
sq> I wish I had the money to buy you a Darth
sq> Vader costume right now. Give
sq> in to the Rice Brothers, Michael. It is the only way
sq> to save your friends. ROFL!
Does that mean Fred's my father? :-)
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Rice
|Sub: No, really.
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:51:00
EID:7076 219d8e60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624387
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Rice to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
DR> You'll never guess who sent me e-mail this
DR> morning. Nope. Nope. Nope. It was Hawk Shadow
DR> (Julie)! No, really! I'm afraid to read it,
DR> though, because it is probably a reply to a
DR> message I sent to the Dragonfest Board of
DR> Directors asking them to tell her I still
DR> think she hung the moon and stars. Hummm.
DR> I've written so on the community center
DR> board for the past four years.
Is that a form of creationism? (g,d,r)
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 29 Dec 96 17:54:00
EID:4a8f 219d8ec0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624388
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Jim Staal <=-
iJS>> My point was that if her smart A** mouth aggravated him as
iJS>> much as it did me, my revenge was extracted in advance.
JH> Let it be known that the above
JH> states that wife beating is OK if the wife has a "smart A**
JH> mouth."
iJS> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
iJS> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
iJS> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
Jim PLEASE tell me this doesn't mean what it seems to mean ... because
if it does, (and you agree with the sentiment), well ... it's
appalling.
... Behind every double standard is a single hidden agenda.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 29 Dec 96 20:50:43
EID:4efc 219da640
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c721b70
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c58a00
Hello Gwenny!
Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Steve Quarrella:
JJ>> I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
JJ>> mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
SQ> Oh shit, now we're going to have to get a likeness for Mammon,
SQ> and give it SQ> away as a door prize at the Holysmoke convention.
SQ> Love it!
GtP> What exactly does mammon look like.
Most pictures I have seen of Mammon shows him looking like:
Figure along the lines of a fat Buddha, but with an uninhibited
grin or an evil lear, and with skin of gold....
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Foot in Both Camps?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 09:13:04
EID:c58f 219c49a0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32c6b134
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32a9d282
Hi Andrew...
On 06 Dec 96 08:48:22, Andrew Masten penned the following to Dan Ceppa
re: Foot in Both Camps?
DC> So that people like you know the difference between Laurie's
DC> lies and reality.
AM> Strong logic and evidence would prove far more fruitful. I have
AM> seen many of your posts and they usually lack those
AM> characteristics.
Strong logic and evidence has been applied to him for at least
a couple of years. The only good it usually does is to show
people like you that he is indeed a charlatan of the lowest
order.
John
... "Illic esse ani." There be assholes.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Indoctrinated Eh?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 10:26:29
EID:3c94 219c5340
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32c6b135
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86290f34
On 10 Dec 96 08:30:26, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Indoctrinated Eh?
RM> Anyone who knows anything at all about science has been
RM> "indoctrinated".
LA> Perhaps you mean the hard sciences then, which obviously
LA> rules out evolution! But since you put the word in inverted
There you go again, Laurie... making pronouncements as if they
were fact. You do realize all you are doing is holding up a big
sign that says "I'M STUPID!"
LA> commas then you may be attempting some sort of humour? Sir Fred
LA> Hoyle does not seem to agree with you at all and he says;
(irrelevant Hoyle quote deleted and one inserted)
"It is in the nature of fundamentalism that it should contain a
powerful streak of irrationality and that it should not relate,
in a verifiable, practical way, to the everyday world. It is
also necessary for a fundamentalist belief that it should
permit the emergence of gurus, whose pronouncements can be
widely reported and pondered on endlessly - endlessly for the
reason that they contain nothing of substance, so that it would
take an eternity of time to distil even one drop of sense from
them."
(Home Is Where the Wind Blows, Fred Hoyle, 1994, p. 413)
Sounds like he was writing about you and your creationist
butt-buddies.
LA> "In this book we present evidence, which we think is
LA> irrefutable, to support our point of view that life is a
LA> cosmic phenomenon. At the same time we seek to analyse the
LA> sociological forces that appear to be rallied against an
LA> acceptance of this point of view."
LA> (Our Place in the Cosmos, Hoyle & Wickramasinghe, (1993),
LA> p. 2-3)
In other words, H&W think you're nuts as well... B-})
LA> Hoyle has much more to say on this subject of education -
Yes... and I showed in an earlier message how his paranoid
tendencies have gotten the better of him.
John
... There is nothing more horrifying than stupidity in action.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Laurie explosion imminen
|Date: 28 Dec 96 10:36:58
EID:3c2f 219c5480
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32c6b136
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32a9d285
Hi Andrew...
On 06 Dec 96 09:15:37, Andrew Masten penned the following to Rod Swift
re: Laurie explosion imminen
AM> And I suggest there is little scientific evidence which
AM> disqualifies us from being here as a result of design. Theories
AM> and models abound.
I suggest you look up the Scottish philosopher David Hume, who
debunked the argument from design hundreds of years ago. In the
centuries since many attempts have been made to show where Hume
was wrong, but none of them were very successful.
"Theories" abound, yes... particularly scientific theories.
Religious-type "models" abound, but they aren't scientific.
As for showing where Laurie is a charlatan, just go back and
look at almost any one of his messages or messages TO him. Pay
particular attention to the messages he gets back. Not only are
there a number of rational people with considerable science
background and a greater understanding of his quotes and
sources than Laurie himself has responding to him, but by now
he is being treated in the most vile manner by people who
normally only give what they receive. I can practically
guarantee that if he were at all rational he would be treated
that way in return.
RS> Oh, and if your theory was true, Laurie, can you show me the
RS> scientific "proof" from cretin science which CONCLUSIVELY proves
RS> that it was the Christian creation myth that was this "inherent
RS> designer" of the universe?
AM>
AM> Can you prove conclusively that we are here as a result of
AM> mechanistic process alone?
"Conclusively" is a poor choice of words. Science can show with
close to 90 percent accuracy not only what DID happen, but what
did not. In some cases (such as allele frequency defining
biological evolution) it can show with 99.9999% accuracy that
indeed, such and such happens.
Ultimately, science has shown that there are no serious
objections to the "mechanistic process" being responsible for
"life, the universe and everything". It has also shown that
there are some very serious objections to the "design"
argument.
I'll go with science... B-})
John
... If it works, rip it apart and find out why.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 11:00:38
EID:d3c4 219c5800
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32c6b137
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86291871
Hi Laurie...
On 10 Dec 96 08:48:56, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Sue Armstrong
re: Look Who is Insulted?
SA> If you're so pro-American .. why do you live in Australia?
LA> There are a number of reasons. Firstly I live here and
LA> speak the language.
That's a hoot! You may speak it, but your reading comprehension
is problematic. BTW, despite the odd local idiom they speak the
same language in Oz as they do in the USA (at least most of it)
and Canada. It's called "English".
LA> Secondly, we probably have LESS racial
LA> problems here - our Aborigines don't try to burn down our
LA> major cities everytime one of then gets pulled up for
LA> speeding or drink driving! :-)
Despite the smiley we know that's a gross exaggeration. As for
your racial problems, I'm up for a discussion anytime you are.
Among the other instruments I play I'm a didj (didjeridoo)
puller and know a little about the Dreamtime and The People and
stay in contact with them from here.
How much do YOU know about the Dreamtime? Does your "balanced
treatment" include it?
LA> Another thing is that we have not gone as far as the
LA> Americans in compelling all school children to have at least
LA> TEN different injections before then can go to school!
You just don't want children to go to school at all, Laurie.
Without "balanced treatment" they'll just be brainwashed into
thinking reality is more than just a crutch for people who can't
handle religion and you hate that idea.
LA> Mind you, I tend to like the American idea of allowing
LA> their citizens to carry guns to defend themselves against
The "American" idea? Some states (like New York) have some of
the toughest gun laws on the continent. You might be thinking
of Texas, and while Texans are Americans, Americans aren't all
Texans.
LA> criminals. In Australia they are about to give all the
LA> Crooks and criminals a field day by disarming all the
LA> honest citizens.
At least you are isolated on an island (remember evolution?)
and don't share the worlds' longest undefended border with a
country where every citizen has the right to bear arms. Some
of them make millions smuggling their excess across it.
LA> Within 12 months the only ones to have guns will be the
LA> crooks and criminal and the rest of us will be defenceless!
They thought it would be that way here too, and it's been 12
months since Bill C-47 became law. There are still lots of
legal guns around though, as well as illegal ones.
LA> That might also make us more interesting to any potential
LA> aggressor as well, knowing that the population is
LA> defenceless!
Well, Laurie... when it comes down to it, why would anyone WANT
to be an aggressor towards Oz? B-}) Most of the continent is
inhospitable, if not outright dangerous and the Australian army
is one of the most formidable in the world, particularly on
their own turf. The population of Oz is concentrated enough
they wouldn't be fighting hand-to-hand anyway as if the
aggression were serious enough a few well-placed "devices"
could eliminate most of the population.
LA> So why do YOU live in America anyway? Look how often you
LA> get devastating Tornadoes and things like that.
I live in Canada myself... Tornadoes rarely do damage because
they generally hit farms (or trailer parks, but that's no loss)
rather than cities. However, the temperature outside on this
sunny day is -30C (24 below zero for the metrically challenged)
and it will hit 40 below tonight. We'll bundle-up in our parkas
and lined mitts on our walk tonight and under clear skies we'll
be able to watch the aurora borealis as we reach the edge of
the cliff overlooking the Bow Valley, carved out by the
receding of the glaciers thousands of years before you think
the Earth was created.
LA> Mind you it was delightful to learn that your
LA> evolutionists aren't worth a bent-cent when it comes to
LA> debating Creation Scientists, even if your left-wing
If you are an example of a "Creation Scientist" then you have
been out-debated, out-quoted, out-thought and out-insulted
simply because the tactics you use are outrageous.
If you are trying to pretend you are one of those "intelligent
and well-educated" creationists of whom Eldredge wrote you
aren't doing a very good job. Intelligent and well-educated
people have something to say, but all you do is quote, and
quotations are only fit for people who don't have anything to
say.
LA> anti-Amertican ACLU and it entourage of "smart" lawyers
LA> have been able to have "balanced treatment" laws declared
LA> unconstitutional! :-)
If they hadn't done it, someone else would have. It's just too
bad that that it ultimately came to that. "Balanced treatment"
is not merely government-enforced religion, it is
government-enforced anti-science. You seem to think that your
sort of balanced treatment will give people options about what
to believe, but what it WOULD do is show that creationism not
only has nothing at all going for it to contribute to the
global knowledge pool, but that rather than being a philosophy
celebrating God it is merely anti-evolutionism which stoops to
despicable intellectual tactics to achieve it's goal of
spreading the "Good News".
LA> Keep your head down!
LOL! Heed your own advice, Laurie!
John
... We must be GOVERNED by reason, not RULED by religion...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 29 Dec 96 18:04:00
EID:9965 219d9080
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A624389
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> As Davies said in what I sent to Ron, there are many workable
AS> possible ways for self-consistent laws to be formulated. Surely it is
AS> a reasonable question to ask why it's these laws rather than another?
MH> Yes, it is, and I'm not implying that "no reason" is an acceptable
MH> final answer. What I am saying is that "God did it" is not acceptable
MH> either, if invoked everytime a difficult question comes up.
MH> Historically, people have invoked God to fill gaps, and the gaps are
MH> inevitably filled with something natural, pushing God back yet
MH> another level.
AS> Yes, but remember we're talking...at least in the Judeo-Christian
AS> context...of someone who CREATED the universe. Now, does the fact
AS> that we started out with a series of myths about the birth of Ymir;
AS> and Bori, the grandfather of Odin, in norse mythology, and then
AS> progressed to a primitive Ptolemiac idea and the idea of a literal
AS> Garden of Eden, to a more sophisticated Copernican-Newtonian view, to
AS> the Big Bang and modern physics, invalidate that the universe had an
AS> origin? We keep on pushing it back further and further. That's because
AS> of the nature of what we are talking about...the ORIGIN of the
AS> universe. Similarly, if the universe is CREATED, that means even the
AS> ORIGIN has a cause, and is removed one more degree. It's by the very
AS> nature of the thing we're looking for, that as our knowledge expands,
AS> it will be pushed back...
Granted, but it still begs the question you haven't yet
adequately answered: If God wants us to believe he exists, why design a
universe that appears completely ungodded? Why hide? I no longer accept
that he hides so our allegiance to him will be unforced; the stakes are
too high (in orthodox theology) for him *not* to do everything possible
to persuade us. That is, a divine hard-sell would not be a forced
choice, but it would save more souls than hiding ... and if the
atonement of Christ is effective only for those who believe, mercy
would demand as hard a sell as necessary.
MH> Sure, but I'm not saying "no explanation." I'm saying "we don't know
MH> -- yet." Were the angels pushing the clouds the correct explanation?
MH> If not, then what value is there in using supernatural forces as a
MH> placeholder until something better comes along?
AS> If it explains not only the original problem, but additional
AS> phenomena...say, the altruistic impuleses of mankind, or the feeling
AS> of transcendence many claim to have...a hypothesis is considered more
AS> probable than one that doesn't cover these additional points.
But the hypothesis which covers the origin of the universe need not
explain altruism ... they're separate phenomena.
... Hebrew: What happens when she won't make the tea.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Help help!
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:03:06
EID:c81b 219d8060
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e0015e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b48cc475
On Dec 26 14:04 96, Fredric Rice of 1:218/890@FidoNet wrote:
FR> Oh dear! He's right! I mean, what if Odin really really
FR> does exist?!
Orisha Ogun will kick his lily white ass, that's what.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:08:16
EID:cbae 219d8100
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e00fb3
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8c01
On Dec 27 14:10 96, Fredric Rice of 1:218/890@FidoNet wrote:
jjh>> There's still a chance to get one at a end-of-year
jjh>> clearance sale. Better hurry.
FR> So drop that keyboard right now, borrow your parent's
FR> pick-up, and get to K- Mart right away. (A brain from
FR> K-Mart... What debths of silly have I fallen to?)
He should go to K-Mrat instead. They're the only ones with the
Glodberg Spelling Checker.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:14:02
EID:3603 219d81c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e03794
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9a008840
On Dec 25 21:32 96, Curtis Johnson of 1:261/1137 wrote:
CJ> You're certainly correct about the notes to _The Lost Books
CJ> of the Bible_ being of poor quality, though the edition of
CJ> the collection seems to date from 1926. OTOH, with no
CJ> credit being given for translation, etc., my guess is that
CJ> even then the original publisher was trying to cheap out
CJ> with stuff in the public domain.
I put the date too late. If you look real closely at the LOC
card entry on the "copyright page", you'll see it gives credit
to Archbishop of Canterbury William Wake (1657-1737) and
Jeremiah Jones (1693-1724) for the translation. The compilation
was done by William I. Hone (1780-1842). There is, however,
no clue as to which of these gentlemen wrote the notes that
precede each book.
CJ> BTW, you're reproducing what seems to be a common bit of
CJ> misinformation among unbelievers.
I was being lazy. Didn't want to take a side-trip into what is
essentially a completely different topic.
CJ> The Council of Nicea did not even have what was to be "canon" on
CJ> its agenda. AAMOF, the decision about what was to be canon was
CJ> even sloppier and later than that. The first list we have that
CJ> reproduces the NT list wasn't until the Festival Letter of
CJ> Athanasius, 376 A.D. And dispute about some of the other books,
CJ> particularly Revelation, continued for many decades longer.
Decades? Centuries. The Roman Church didn't finaly put it's foot
down and officially proclaim a fixed and inflexible cannon until
the Counter-Reformation. AFTER Martin Luther had nailed the
Protestant cannon in place. The Book of Revelation (as you noted),
in particular fell in and out of favor repeatedly throughout the
Middle Ages.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:10:41
EID:9d27 219db140
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e3a463
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2bf5e5a1
On Dec 23 23:42 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
JJ>> Quoting JOHN JEANNEAULT to ALL CHRISTIANS on 12-13-96
JJ>> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time
JJ>> with you losers.
RS> Thanx for the favor, John.
Wow... Looks like I missed some heap powerful juju.
Anyone got a copy of John's message?
(If it can make Jesse go away, it can do anything.)
RS> But Jesse really won't stay away . . .
Yeah, he'll probably come back before Jesus does.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:58:04
EID:1c18 219db740
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e3cf2b
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2bf5e5ac
On Dec 24 01:08 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
GD>> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you
GD>> afraid of the word Christmas and what it stands for?
RS> He is in England, where it is called something else. And
RS> it has different names around the world. Don't be anglocentric.
RS> He's expressing it that way because he wants to.
Are you saying that Americans are the One True Anglos?
And the English are just.... the fucking English?
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Sue".
|Date: 29 Dec 96 23:01:28
EID:ad6f 219db820
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72e3df36
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org b3167ea8
On Dec 23 23:04 96, Sean McCullough of 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org wrote:
>> Ah, yes. "I was joking" - the last refuge of the scoundrel.
SM> Not necessarily.
SM> I just don't want you to know which is which.
SM> Seems like I am succeeding quite well in confusing YOU,
SM> aren't I??
Oh fer shit's sake...
That line wouldn't wash at the Mutual Appreciation Society Tea
Social. And he tries to pull that line HERE?
I thought only Staal and Wolff were that stupid.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ALAN HESS
|Sub: Gawd was wrong?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 21:32:00
EID:be63 219cac00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Alan Hess to All <=-
AH> Let me get this straight - God is supposed to
AH> be perfect. This perfect god gives a set of
AH> laws to man. 2,000 years ago, this perfect god
AH> allegedly sent a man to tell his people, "I was
AH> wrong - you don't have to obey my original
AH> perfect laws any more. Here's a new set from
AH> me that supercede the perfect laws I originally
AH> gave you. My son is here to tell you the new
AH> laws, as well as which of the old laws you should
AH> still follow. His followers will clarify everything
AH> in their books."
In the Bible Jesus said he was not come to change the
law (convenant with the chief Hebrew god Yahweh). But
then, of course, he is said to do so---- the Bible
has it both ways.
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRIS GREEN
|Sub: End Times are upon us!
|Date: 28 Dec 96 21:35:00
EID:c6a6 219cac60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Chris Green to David Rice <=-
CG> Is it correct David, that the LDS have a 'Sacred
CG> Mountain' in which they are supposed to store
CG> their genealogy records?
I have no idea, but it would not surprise me. The
location would be in The New Zion (center of the
USA) if it exists.
... "Xenu is no match for Xena, Warrior Princess!" -- drice
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GERRY DANEN
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 28 Dec 96 21:41:00
EID:3048 219cad20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Gerry Danen to CHRIS GREEN...
>CG> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th,
>CG> and a Good New Year.
GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are
GD> you afraid of the word Christmas and what it stands
GD> for?
Greed, avarice, consumerism, commercialism, and of
course unbridled capitalism. Damn frightening to me.
To say that history is silent about Herod's massacre of
the innocents is not to say that the story is at all
unusual. Parallel versions of it are so common in the
folklore of ancient societies that mythologists have even
assigned a name to the story and call it the
dangerous-child myth. Space won't allow a review of all
these myths, but the Hindu version is worth looking at,
because it is strikingly parallel to Matthew's story.
According to Hindu literature, Krishna, the eighth
incarnation of the god Vishnu, was born to the virgin
Devaki in fulfillment of prophecy and was visited by wise
men who had been guided to him by a star. Angels also
announced the birth to herdsmen in the nearby countryside.
When King Kansa heard about the miraculous birth of this
child, he sent men to "kill all the infants in the
neighboring places," but a "heavenly voice" whispered to
the foster father of Krishna (who, incidentally, was a
carpenter) and warned him to take the child and flee
across the Jumna river. (In this Hindu legend, we can
recognize many parallels to the infancy of Jesus other
than the dangerous-child element.) In "Bible Myths and
Their Parallels in Other Religions," author T. W. Doane
cited a work by Thomas Maurice, "Indian Antiquities", vol.
1, pp. 112-113, which described an "immense sculpture" in
a cave-temple at Elephanta that depicts the Indian
children being slaughtered while men and women apparently
representing their parents are standing by pleading for
the children (p. 167).
A study of pagan mythology would establish similar
parallels in the stories of Zoroaster (Persian), Perseus
and Bacchus (Greek), Horus (Egyptian), Romulus and Remus
(Roman), Gautama (the founder of Buddhism), and many
others, because various pieces of the dangerous-child myth
can be found in the stories of all these pagan gods and
prophets. All of these myths antedate, usually by many
centuries, Matthew's account of the massacre of the
children at Bethlehem. Krishna, for example, was a Hindu
savior who allegedly lived in the sixth century B. C., so
when a study of ancient world literature shows that an
unusual event like the slaughter of the innocents seemed
to have happened =everywhere=, reasonable people will
realize that it probably happened =nowhere= or, at best,
that it happened only once and was subsequently
plagiarized. Since the story occurs many times before
Matthew's version of it, we can only conclude that no such
event happened in Bethlehem as Matthew--and only
Matthew--claimed. Just like that, then, fundamentalists
who put so much stock in prophecy-fulfillment find one of
their "fulfillments" vaporizing right before their eyes.
... Drink till she's cute. Stop before you get married.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 28 Dec 96 21:53:00
EID:c00f 219caea0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Steve Quarrella <=-
>SQ> The Cannonball Run. The line David quoted is one
>SQ> from Dean Martin. wants to bless her. Later, Burt
>SQ> Reynolds calls Davis "the Chocolate Monk." It's a
>SQ> corny movie with an all-star cast -- Terry Bradshaw,
>DC> A better one, in a very similar vein, is _Gumball
>DC> Rally!_ I found it far funnier than any of the
>DC> Cannonball movies.
". . . lay down under a tree, and FUCK MY BRAINS OUT!"
(Farrah Fawcett Majors)
Or when the gas pump jockey asked the Mad Hungarian if
he's cold, AFTER the latter warms his hands by putting
them on his motorcycle's engine until they sizzle.
Awesome movie.
... Faith constipates the mind.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID MARTORANA
|Sub: Jesus/Mary in the kuran?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 21:59:00
EID:21ec 219caf60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Martorana to All <=-
DM> Watching a biography of Mary (mother of Jesus)
DM> the other night, they mentioned that Mary was
DM> written about in the Koran (as well as Jesus).
DM> Question! Do these mentions add any new data or
DM> is it a rework of the known NT material?
I suspect the Alcoran included Christian mythical
figures to placate Christians. The authors knew
nothing of the Christians Jesus.
The Koran is also strewn with Satanic verses, just
like the Bible.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Mustard Bath
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:16:00
EID:99c1 219cb200
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>>FR> Hey! I found a place that sells 128 OZ of mustard
>>FR> for $1.93. The only question is, where am I going
>>FR> to store it all? Is there any room on your boat? }:-}
>DR> This is FANTASTIC news! I'll run out and buy some
>DR> more six-gallon jerry cans and store the mustard
>DR> in the stern compartment! I'll jettison the life-
>DR> raft to make room....
FR> What a great idea! And you don't really need all
FR> those life vests -- even the $65.00 one could be
FR> tossed to make a little more room. And I noticed
FR> there's a lot of available space in the bilge and
FR> around the engine compartiment.
I "finished" working in the bilge today. What a load
of jesusing jesus that jesus was. I created a wiring
harness TWICE for the electric bilge pump, and I still
forgot the jesus inline fuse! Jesus!
The bilge well is jesus narrow--- there was no room
for both the pump and the floating switch. So I went
a bought a tube of caulk that said "Quick Hardening,"
and I adheared the floating switch on top of the pump.
That was a week ago, and the caulk still wasn't hard,
so I looked at the tube again--- the words "Quick
Hardening" MIRACULOUSLY turned into "Non-Hardening"
while I wasn't looking.
So I scraped the slimy jesus off of the pump and
switch, and went and got some epoxy. I epoxied the
switch to the pump again, and stuffed it down the
well, and discovered that it didn't fit that was
either. The stupid jesus was hardening real fast,
but I managed to seperate the assembly and reglue
the switch on at a different angle.
Now the pump spews water like a firehose. I had to
put a check-valve in the hose to keep the water
from backing into the bilge once the pump stoped.
I also wired a manual switch.
>DR> Johann said he would give to me a water-maker that
>DR> is hand-powered. It will turn a gallon of sea water
>DR> into drinking water in a few minutes.
FR> I would like to see that and see if there's an
FR> instruction booklet or something which explains the
FR> process. My guess is there are layers of charcol
FR> and chemical scrubbers and such. Must you boil
FR> what it produces?
It is for emergencies only. It has a membrane that removes
salt via osmosis. After use it requires a biocide flush.
Today I bought a Aster IIIb sextant and GPS. I also bought
300 feet of 0.5 inch rope.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:23:00
EID:f2e9 219cb2e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
> in each.
FR> Damn! Only 10%? That's fucking disappointing. Does
FR> the macro discern between quoted materials and new text?
Alas, no.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:25:00
EID:4d7c 219cb320
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to All <=-
> John Jeanneault
>JJ> Let us all do the same....let us either get out
>JJ> of here altogether...or let us all barrage them
>JJ> with scripture....with no response to the slap
>JJ> on the cheek, except that of quoting more
>JJ> scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
John's a Scientologist!
FR> Is calling for the distruption of a FidoNet echo
FR> an actionable offence or does the resentful fascist
FR> Nazi Christian have to actually do it first?
A single call to the offending BBS from Styx would
end the problem. Therefore, why would the fundy bother?
... Pickup line: You're under arrest! Place your ankles behind your ears.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Michael's part of the fam
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:30:00
EID:84b2 219cb3c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>>MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity
>>MH> to depend on whether they guess right?
>IJCJ> Michael, as I said to you before you elected
>IJCJ> to join ranks with the Rice Brothers
Alas, I shall not believe it until I think it. I do not.
FR> Michael Hardy has joined the family. We will be three
FR> for dinner.
And cut the mustard by THIRDS?! Argh!
... Pious ignorance always regards intelligence as a kind of blasphemy.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:36:00
EID:beb2 219cb480
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Steve Hayes <=-
>>SH> But that raises the question of why anyone
>>SH> NEEDS to go pleasantly.... they might want
>>SH> it, but do they actually need it... where's
>>SH> the necessity?
Just what the jesus =IS= it with fundies? If it isn't
freaky jesus capitalizations, it's freaky jesus
punctuation (or none at all).
>>RS> The necessity of what?
>SH> What word did you not understand?
JH> The elipsis, both of 'em.
As Fredric says, a "George Bush Dollars" says he has
to go look up the word "ellipsis." Nor will he bother
understanding how to use it / them.
... Good news: it's "KILL JIM STAAL FOR JESUS" Week here at HolySmoke!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:39:00
EID:5772 219cb4e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to David Rice <=-
RC> with: Lee Woofenden
>>LW> What are my professed convictions, David?
>DR> The absurd belief that human thought and conviction
>DR> can change reality.
RC> Well, don't you think that sometimes they can?
Cerytainly. I should have qualified that with "... can
change reality into non-reality," such as turning the
cement sidewalk into a big soft fluffy pillow.
... Christians are not forgiven until their victims forgive them.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Fredric Rice
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:56:00
EID:15fc 219cb700
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Rice <=-
>DR> Fredric Rice will be away from HOLYSMOKE for a week.
JB> Should we notify his family?
ROTFL!
... Christians are not forgiven until their victims forgive them.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:57:00
EID:d48a 219cb720
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Rice <=-
>DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
>DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
JB> Uh...I never saw it.
Hummm. I wonder if they were deleted somewhere along the way.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:04:10
EID:8489 219d3880
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b827
AS> Cattybtch, Mike's Hepcat, Katerine's KatPurr, Judith's ChinaCat (don't
AS> ask me how the cat motif got started...), etc.
JB> With Prewett calling Lynda a 'catty bitch' just about the time the
JB> channel was getting going. She adopted it as her nick.
JB> Those of us who have not been declawed decided to follow suit.
Ah, that's right. Thanks, Judith.
... Birthday: Proof that you survived another year with out dying.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:20:28
EID:3e8f 219d6280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b828
AS> Go between seven and eleven at night. You'll find someone there. (My
time,
AS> which is Central.) At least most nights. I'm AlleyTom, Lynda's Cattybtch,
AS> Mike's Hepcat, Katerine's KatPurr, Judith's ChinaCat (don't ask me
how the
AS> cat motif got started...), etc.
GtP> Oh, no! I just got the newest mIRC, too, and I wanted to wander in.
GtP> But I can't think of a cute cat name that won't get me into trouble.
Trust me, those have been used TOO... Don't worry about it. Plenty of
people have non-Cat names...Styx is just Styx, for instance. Pooh or
Gwenny would do fine, as long as nobody else has used them. Hope to see
you there, and Glen too.
... I played poker with Tarot cards. Got a flush, five died.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: ,
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:10:02
EID:b375 219d3940
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b829
DW>> At least she isn't a stealth baptist. I seem to have nothing to
DW>> worry about.
AS> For all you know she's not really a baptist, but a stealth Wiccan,
AS> sent by the Todds...
DW> As I've never had a stealth Wiccan before, at least it would be a
DW> change.
Maybe a permanent one, judging by the exchanges back and forth...
... "I seem to be having these recurring visions of deja vu": MontyPython
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: ,
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:13:25
EID:22d8 219d39a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82a
DW>> At least she isn't a stealth baptist. I seem to have nothing to worry
DW>> about.
AS> For all you know she's not really a baptist, but a stealth Wiccan,
sent by
AS> the Todds...
GtP> Nope, if it's for David, she's a Servant designed JUST like the one
in
GtP> Misty Lackey's _Jinx High_. . ."clever of those Japanese to think of
GtP> putting teeth THERE. . ."
Or the woman in Philip Jose Farmer's IMAGE OF THE BEAST....and I use the
term woman for lack of a better word...who with steel teeth, combined
Linda Lovelace and Lorena Bobbitt...
... "PARADISE, n. Copulation without culmination."--Bierce,DEVIL'S DICTION
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: A GOD'S DIET OF RAPE
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:19:34
EID:4313 219d3a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82b
AS> Jesus said. What Jesus is saying is that what we think of as death is
AS> just
AS> a change. That we become something different, and perhaps greater.
AS> Just like a fetus goes through a change and can no longer be a
AS> fetus...but becomes something greater.
RH> To change the topic a bit here Al, what was the name of the story
RH> which had as its plot the idea that humans were just "maggots",
RH> that when they died they became great space "butterflies" and
RH> joined the fight against the evil invaders from a distant galaxy.
Y'know, that sounds VAGUELY familiar, but I've read so much sf, I'm not
sure I'm thinking of the specific story you're citing. Anybody else know
the name of this story?
RH> At one point in the story the hero told someone that if he knew
RH> the truth about such things, he would willingly kill himself.
RH> Another case of "it doesn't matter what you do on Earth". Who
RH> cares how maggots behave?
Unless you have a wound and they're crawling up your arm...
... "At birth we woke to dream in this world between." -Kan'ami Kiyotsugu
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:21:20
EID:aeec 219d62a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82c
AS> is what tells us there is an "I". Some think that the brain is
AS> something that the mind-soul uses to think WITH, as we move an arm to
AS> manipulate things. That the mind is not necessarily synymous with the
AS> brain. That a brain is necessary for the transmission of thought, but
AS> that there is something else that uses the brain.
RH> This is disproved by the split brain experiments, which show that by
RH> separating the two halves of the brain, you end up with two different
RH> people in one body. If the brain was the tool of a soul, the soul
RH> would be able to pass information to both sides. Or at least, be
RH> aware of input from both sides and combine them.
Excellent point, and one I hadn't considered. Let me think on that one.
... Anybody seen my shaving brush? -- William of Ockham ca. 1340
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 29 Dec 96 07:35:32
EID:56e6 219d3c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82d
AS> Bingo to the first. Not necessarily true on the second. All
AS> religions, if that is the case, must be reflectios of the divine. Some
AS> can certainly be closer to the truth than others...as Copernicus'
AS> cosmology is closer to the truth than Ptolemy's was.
MH> OK, but it still makes no sense to commit yourself to one above the
MH> others, if no one is wholly true. It would make more sense to draw
MH> those elements of truth from wherever you find them, and then cobble
MH> together a true religion. The problems with that approach, however,
MH> should be obvious.
Sure. You construct a religion according to your own bias, and make (for
instance, if you adopt Jesus as your main focal point) a Jesus entirely
congenial to YOU. All of us (to be perfectly honest) do that a little bit.
But I find those times when I get the most enlightenment is when I
confront something in my beliefs that does NOT go with my initial
inclination.
AS> I do not agree about all the moral impulses, although I certainly
AS> agree about some; and I have sometimes called myself a theist with
AS> deist leanings. And the anthropic stuff could very well be a deist
AS> god. BUT see what that implies, Mike. It implies this imperfect world
AS> is the best this deistic god can do...and it also implies, if no
AS> religion is true, that this god has made no active change in the world
AS> we see, DESPITE the fact that this being could create a universe? So
AS> could you call it benign? But if He actually makes an effort to do
AS> something to allow us to gain a paradisical state...which caused Him
AS> pain and suffering to do...that's a little different.
MH> But the deistic God could have a heaven waiting for us. No reason to
MH> think it doesn't. The problem is, Judeo-Christian tradition holds
MH> that God intervenes often in the affairs of humanity; that's why
MH> people pray for things.
Yes. But those prayers are not always answered. (Indeed, if they were
answered infallibly all the time, people would treat it more like sorcery
than prayer...a demand, not a petition.) And rarely in a way that
circumvents natural law.
AS> Sorry, Mike. I can't help it. You have to worry about which ideas are
AS> right...or perhaps, MORE right might be closer. No one seriously
AS> contends that Christianity and other religions have not fostered holy
AS> wars, Inquisitions, Crusades...because of its evangilical nature. Now,
AS> suppose someone combined that evangelical, exclusivenist nature with,
AS> say, the Norse conviction that DYING IN BATTLE IS THE WAY TO
AS> PARADISE??? That would be a REAL nightmare.
MH> Yes, but you miss my point. There are things which all cultures (or
MH> most, at least) value. If we're designed in God's image, it would
MH> seem that those values which are most universal are the most
MH> reflective of that image. And if so, then by valuing, say, someone's
MH> property enough to not steal it, even though praying in a mosque, I
am
MH> honoring God more than if I kneel in the Christian church and walk out
MH> with a hymnal stuffed in my pocket.
I agree completely. I think an honest nonChristian is much more esteemed
by God than a dishonest Christian. But that still doesn't mean one way
might not be more right than another.
... Mixed emotions is when your kid gets an "A" in sex class.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: christian freewill TWO
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:22:19
EID:51ee 219d62c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82e
SH> And it might be interesting to take a look at the activities of the
SH> League of Militant Atheists in the 1920s and 1930s... it seems that
SH> even those who claim to have no religion at all have similar
SH> tendencies.
AS> Hmmm?? I know little about the League of Militant Atheists, whoever
AS> they may be. Would you expand a little further?
SH> They were a government-sponsored group in the USSR in that period who
SH> tried to ram their beliefs down everyone's throat.
Oh! In my ethnocentric way I was thinking about US organizations. Thanks
for the info, I might look something up about them.
SH> Keep well,
You too.
... History repeats itself when nobody listens.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:22:48
EID:e60c 219d62c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b82f
AS> That third kid could have been any of mine. (Or yours, if they are
AS> still of school age. Or anyone's here.)
JB> As much as I dislike guns of all types, the responsibility here is the
JB> MOTHER'S for not securing the weapon where a child could not get to
JB> it.
I agree completely. But single mothers (of which this was one) often sleep
with guns where they are easily accessible, in case someone breaks in, and
they don'thave to fumble for bullets, although it is certainly her
responsibility, it's an understandable, if tragic, mistake.
JB> Nobody else's...and certainly not the government's.
You're probably right. It wasn't a conclusion I relished, either. I wasn't
disputing their right to have guns, just to suggest restricting the TYPE
of gun MIGHT save some lives. I am open for other ideas.
... Type unto others as you would have them type unto you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:02:22
EID:e3ce 219d4040
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b830
AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
RV> So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
AS> So who's the Second Foundation?
MM> How about L Ron and his merry men?
Gee, I never thought I'd be on the Mule's side...
... Even if you ban all books, you can't ban the mind.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Dark Bible #4 [2]
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:10:30
EID:c882 219d4140
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b831
JB> Al, I'll get back to you on the other questions, but:
Take your time, John. You've given us all food for thought.
JB> On 24 Dec 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
AS> Still, quite ingenious. Have you tried it out?
JB> Yes. It works often enough that it is imho statistically unreasonable
JB> to ascribe the results to "coincidence." The 'meteorite' example is
JB> not just an example: it was a real event. That is, the meteorite I
JB> asked for six months ahead of time, to see at 12:00 midnight on the
JB> day of Winter Solstice (this was many years ago, by the way), appeared
JB> on schedule, within a few minutes of the appointed hour. Which is
of
JB> course to say "yes, it worked then."
Right.
JB> I use this not often enough, and sometimes I ignore the answers I get.
JB> I seem to be living in the midst of a mess of these. Sometimes I
JB> don't _ask_ the questions 'cause I don't want to detect the answers.
JB> (*grin*) For example, the issue of smoking.... With a
JB> coincidence-violating regularity that is astonishing, I go out to get
JB> cigarettes and am interfered with on the way to the store about four
JB> times in five. The opposite is also true: if I try to _avoid_
JB> stopping for cigarettes, events in my area _aid_ my motion _past_ the
JB> store.
God loves you, John. Although I've seen it happen the other way,
too...people giving up something, like adultery, suddenly thrust into a
job where they have to train a lot of young women, for instance.
JB> I can't tell you often "He" messes with me like that....
JB> (*BFGrin*)
JB> But I don't go out much, and there's precious little in this condo
JB> that can be meddled with in the
JB> quantum-chaos-theory-initial-conditions manner, so "He" (God) doesn't
JB> get much chance to mess with me. (*chuckle*) I'm afraid I'm still
a
JB> bit resistant, _despite_ the occasionally astonishing correspondences
JB> that happen along the lines of this Hypothesis. I offer this to the
JB> "public" for the first time now, and in HOLY_SMOKE, to boot, because
JB> if it's "true," it'd better be honestly tested by many many more
JB> people than just ME, and I can't think of a bunch of more skepticqal
JB> people than are here. Now, if they'll just be _honest_ about it and
JB> follow the rules of _this_Hypothesis_ and no other, we'll see what
JB> happens. (Of course, a hidebound atheist wouldn't admit it if it
JB> worked for him, any more than a hidebound religionist would admit it
JB> if it worked for _him_ but wasn't anywhere near his own concept of
JB> God.)
We'll see. I wonder how many people here WOULD be honest enough to make
the experiment? And how many instances it would have to have to be
statistically valid?
JB> (By the way, exactly the same _mechanism_ is used to communicate with
JB> material brains, which are also quantum objects with chaotic-evolving-
JB> thought aspects... no physics violations; just gentle nudges in brain
JB> operation, using what's already in there. But, of course, those
JB> qualify as SUBJECTIVE, and can't be treated philosophically in the
JB> same way as events that one knows are not in one's own head.
JB> (*grin*))
Watch it. Now someone will say that the meteorite is an illusion caused
by
wish fulfillment. Not me, though. Take care, John.
... Reality is for people who can't face science fiction.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:18:13
EID:27ac 219d4240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b832
AS> But remember in, ohhhh, the book's name slips my mind...the one where
the
AS> old guy had a brain transplant into the body of the young girl
GtP> _I Will Fear No Evil_ EXCELLENT!
That's right! I kept on wanting to say TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE, but I KNEW
that was wrong...that it was the Lazarus Long longish novel...but I
couldn't think of the RIGHT title...
Funny that a title from the Bible slipped my mind...
Notice how in I WILL FEAR NO EVIL, the protagonist tried to pay cash,
at a place of business, and it was so extremely unusual to do that instead
of a credit or debit card (another successful prediction by Heinlein) that
they weren't sure how to ring it up? Things are fast approaching that
these days...
... Heinlein's alive, and still writing in another timeline!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:22:35
EID:1a5c 219d42c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b833
AS> JURGEN was his most famous novel. THE SILVER STALLION is
AS> good too, and so is CREAM OF THE JEST, but I don't think
AS> you should start out with CREAM.
MM> I think one should definitely start off with Jurgen. I read it
MM> first time as a teenager, and it has many levels of enjoyment
MM> and makes a great road into his weird and wonderful world.
Either that or SILVER STALLION, which was the first one _I_ read, and
loved. But JURGEN is a better, more connected story. SILVER STALLION is
little novelettes stitched together by a plot device. My all time
favorite, though, is CREAM OF THE JEST...but it's not one to start out
with. I've read all the books in Manuel's biography, but precious little
of the rest. (Off my web page, I have a smaller fantasy page, which
connects to a way to get CREAM OF THE JEST on-line.)
(BTW, interesting sidenote. Cabell was descended from a Cabell in
England who had a bad reputation and who supposedly haunted the Yorkshire
countryside. That legend, in turn, inspired Doyle's Sherlock Holmes novel,
HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES.)
... Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:37:36
EID:0c2c 219d44a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b834
AS> Indeed, why laws at all? Why isn't everything chaotic?
DR> If I understand Mi Fumyah's "Chaos!" at all, everything
DR> =IS= chaotic. The "laws" we observe are due to two or
DR> more chaotic systems interacting to form stabilities.
Thanks for the reference. Let me read it and see what he's referring to.
... I love the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 29 Dec 96 08:41:54
EID:26fa 219d4520
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b835
ML> Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
ML> karate and will soon be impressing us all with his abnormal IQ.
DC> If he responds to all the "400 personal messages a day", he'll make
DC> Al Schoeder look like all of Al's fingers are broken and Al's
DC> responding by typing with his nose, broken as well, of course.
Mr. British Mensa, to my mind, gave it all away, when he said he respected
SEAN'S sense of humor, and almost nobody else's on this echo. Sean, of
course, is prone to making outrageously hyperbolic statements to get a
reaction (something he has in common with Fred Rice). That's why I am
taking ALL his statements, from now on, with a large grain of salt.
... "A simple case, but in some ways an instructive one"--Sherlock Holmes
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Life on Earth
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:25:29
EID:1106 219d6320
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b836
MM> Dr Andrei Arkhipov, of the Institute of Radio Astronomy in
MM> Kharkiv, Ukraine, has theorized that the ultimate origin of
MM> life on Earth began with microbes which had come through the
MM> atmosphere as lumps of alien waste.
MM> Using our own space programs as an example of deep space
MM> pollution Dr Arkhipov said: "Freeze-dried spores in drops
MM> of rocket fuel and human faecal matter from our space crafts
MM> are quite well adapted to interstellar travel".
In fact, I don't think he was the first to make that theory, either...I
think someone else has theorized that we are evolved form the remains of
someone else's garbage. Can't remember who, though.
MM> His theory has already created a stir among religious
MM> commentators, with the Catholic Church sounding least
MM> shocked. Nicholas Coote representing the view of the
MM> Catholic Bishops' Conference in Britain said the alien
MM> dung theory was ultimately not very different from that
MM> of the biblical account of an origin from dust.
Well, dung happens...
MM> Rev Clive Calver, director-general of the Evangelical
MM> Alliance was, however, upset. "First we read that we are
MM> the creation of God - then the scientists say we are
MM> descended from apes. Now we are some sort of alien poo!
MM> How much further can we sink?"
Dust is pretty far down, there, I think. If they would just read the
bible, they would see that Genesis talks about a far more humble origin
than evolution devised...except, to salute a great man, Carl Sagan, who
said, "we are all stardust", referring to the fact that we are the remains
of supernovae.
MM> I must say Doc Arkhipov is a bit late out with his
MM> 'news'. Robert Silverberg incorporated exactly the same
MM> thing in his book "The Masks of Time" in 1968 - even to
MM> the reactions of the religious faction :-)
Maybe that's where I read it, but I still think someone else came up with
a similar theory decades ago. Have to research it and see.
... 1 if by land, 2 if by sea, 3 if by interdimentional teleportation.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: MOORCOCK echo
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:19:35
EID:9936 219d4a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b837
SQ>> Hits the Backbone tomorrow. :)
AS> Gotcha. See you there...
SQ> I'll be looking for you. :)
Haven't seen it yet. I put requests on the sysops of both major BBSes I
use to add it to their message lists...
AS> BTW, Happy whatever-it-is-you-have-at-this-time-of-year, okay?
SQ> I tend to call it "Christmas." I spend the day being empty and
SQ> avoiding the opportunity to do good works. Hope you had a Merry
SQ> Christmas yourself. :)
I avoided ANY kind of work myself, unless you class playing with my middle
son's Nintendo 64 "work", good OR bad. Yes, it was very nice, thanks.
... Predestination was doomed from the start.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:21:26
EID:97e0 219d4aa0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b838
JB> Is this your way of getting back at me for rejecting YOUR ideas of
JB> what I should do with the pictures? If I remember correctly, I had to
JB> tell you TWICE that this was **MY** vision...and holysmokers as *I*
see
JB> them...not yours.
No. I thought you were soliciting suggestions from others.
JB> The rest have you to thank, Al, for the fact that NOBODY else will get
JB> a sneak preview of ANY of the rest of them.
So be it. But it remains an extremely funny page.
... Moderator not found. Enter forbidden subjects? [y] [n]
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:29:04
EID:6291 219d4ba0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b839
AS> Understandable. Enjoy the break.
CJ> The gift of time is a wonderful thing.
Isn't it, though?
... Given a conflict, Murphy's Law supercedes Newton's.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:34:59
EID:5bf7 219d4c40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83a
CJ> Whether or not Wells thought it was a war should have been
CJ> indicated by the title he gave his novel--but it seems that was a
CJ> little too subtle for you.
JB> Al is beginning to rate a whole new category of logical fallacy:
JB> Argumentum ad Fictionus. Whenever he can't bring himself to look up
JB> facts, he resorts to fiction (usually science fiction). And the rest
JB> of us are supposed to accept these arguments without barfing all over
JB> our keyboards.
Odd, Judith. I was basing my arguments above concerning war about how we
classify conflicts within species, using real-life animals...geese, ants,
etc. CJ's objection about the title of WAR OF THE WORLDS is using a
fictional example, from one of the seminal novels of science fiction. So
I
think it looks to me that CJ is basing HIS on sf. He further said to me
that I had read enough sf to know that it is usually referred to as a
"war" when two intelligent races fight. Perhaps. But we don't so classify
conflicts of different types of animals here on Earth, which is the only
biosphere we know of, as a "war". So it seems he is using hypothetical
races in sf story to bolster his argument...while I am using real species
from the real world to bolster mine.
Your criticism seems oddly misplaced in this particular instance.
Although certainly I have read and enjoyed a lot of sf.
... Heart Attacks -- God's Revenge For Eating His Animal Friends.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:40:35
EID:f2cb 219d4d00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83b
FR> How about a contest where theists pray for something to happen and
FR> atheists pray for something else to happen... We could tally-up the
FR> results and use them to show the value of praying.
Fred, exactly WHAT would that prove? Suppose there IS someone there.
Suppose He/She/It listens to everyone. Would it make a difference?
It/She/He might go by majority rules. He/she/it might grant the opposite
of what is prayed, if it is a trickster God like Loki.
Although there are some interesting "double-blind" experiements trying
to see if prayer has any value. I posted that months ago, no longer have
the reference. (Out of an old TIME magazine, long since thrown away).
... Hindu to Christian: "How many *times* have you been born-again?"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Scortched scotch.
|Date: 29 Dec 96 09:48:51
EID:85c9 219d4e00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83c
JJ>>> I've often speculated that the denizens of this hellhole get
JJ>>> sexually aroused with their rituals of abuse here. Thanks for
JJ>>> confirming it.
SQ>> Now I see he's trying to steal my theories about the Fundamentalists
SQ>> here.
AS> Gives a whole new meaning to the word, "posting", doesn't it?
SQ> :) So much for "Thou shalt not steal."
If this echo was the cause of sexual excitement, as much as I post,
I'd make Harlan Ellison look like a monk.
... DAY,n, a period of24 hours, mostly misspent.--DEVILS DICTIONARY(Bierce
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: superstition two
|Date: 29 Dec 96 10:01:33
EID:ee1c 219d5020
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83d
AS> You could indeed. Could you get those who knew Bobby, Jackie, and JFK
AS> to believe it, though?
MH> No, but it's not neccessary. Perhaps people who knew Peter and the
MH> others didn't buy Paul's stories either; enough people did to get the
MH> movement started.
Doesn't that suppose not much commerce between, say, Corinth, where Paul
preached exactly that, and Palestine? Granted they couldn't hop on a
jetplane or watch CNN, still it was a fairly large empire where travel and
commerce went on. Or Ephesus. Or...and Corinth's a sea port, remember. (It
also presupposes that John, both the Gospels and the letters, are fake,
that 1 PEter is a fake, etc.) Why should they believe Paul when surely
some of them would want to walk the streets Jesus walked, and would check
with the head Jerusalem Church themselves?
MH> But what if someone else entirely wrote a book saying that those
MH> people saw him? How many people would believe it, despite their
MH> denials?
A minority, as there are a minority who believe Elvis sightings and UFO
folklore. And I venture to say precious few who would DIE for such a
report, especially if they knew of specific people then living saying it
DIDN'T happen.
AS> But we have more than just ONE someone. We have the writer of the
AS> letters of Paul. Whoever he was, even if he wasn't Paul, he had a
AS> distinctive style. The writer of 1 Peter. Whether he was PEter or not.
AS> We have the writer of Luke and Acts. That's three, whoever he was. We
AS> have the writer of Matthew, whoever HE was. The writer of Mark. The
AS> writer of John as well as of 1 John. That's six people who all talked
AS> about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
MH> Yes, but how do we know they didn't originally stem from a single
MH> source? Jesus died. A legend began circulating about his return. Paul
MH> wrote of it. The gospel authors wrote of it. A couple of others wrote
MH> of it --- all because of the same original superstition, not
MH> independent corrboration.
Then they would all match much MORE than they do. The variations between
(at least) the Synoptics is about what we would expect from different
eyewitnesses or sources (just as a police officer knows every witness'
story will differ in some degree), and the Gospel of John would vary MORE.
We can't have it both ways. If they all relied on a single source, they
would match up more.
AS> If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that includes at least six people, with
AS> six very distinct writing styles. And no records that show any
AS> different...at all. Six different lies, all well coordinated, with
AS> not any great differences, unless you want to count the Gospel of
AS> John...which nevertheless had the basic heart of the Gospel, that
AS> Jesus was tried under Pontius Pilate, was crucified...and rose again.
AS> I'm not a big Oliver Stone, and I don't accept most conspiracy
AS> theories. Not for today. Not for two thousand years ago, either.
MH> Not a hoax, but a belief passed on by several believers -- perhaps
MH> very sincere, but operating under pre-scientific standards of truth.
It's possible. But IF it's the case, then why don't the accounts jibe more
accurately? We're not talking five hundred years or so for different
variations to develop, as we are with Arthur. Even with that example you
gave me not long ago where such things developed so quickly (that guy who
later converted to Islam) I wouldn't expect two different traditions to
grow that quickly.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 29 Dec 96 11:47:57
EID:203c 219d5de0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83e
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to Al Schroeder <=-
RS> On 13-08-96 at 00:06, AL SCHROEDER wrote to MARILYN BURGE:
August 13th? I wondered about you complimenting me for something months
ago. Now you are castigating me for it, too? I notice you are also doing
similar things to Marilyn and others. And people thought _I_ must have a
lot of time...you are going back and reading Holy Smoke for MONTHS back?
AS> Do I want them to live in pain? No. But given the advances made in
the
AS> last ten years in AIDS treatment, it seems an odd time to give up.
Would I
AS> advise them to...if possible...hang on for as much as they can stand,
to
AS> see if a cure would be developed? Yes. And that line differs for each
AS> person. Do I want them to live in constant pain? No. Do I think there
is
AS> such a point? Yes. Do I urge caution before making a decision that
is
AS> irrevocable?
AS> Yes.
AS> It would be awful to have someone commit suicide because they were
AIDS
AS> positive, and for their lover, or sibling, or whatever to hear of an
AIDS
AS> cure the next year...a year which many AIDS patients endure.
RS> This melodramatic clap-trap still does not validate the fact that
RS> you deprived David of his LIBERTIES of choice and control over
RS> his own affairs.
RS> Your interference meant you played god with another person's
RS> life, and now the lives of a number of people. You have lost all
RS> respect earned in the views of others because of your unethical
RS> behaviour.
RS> If you had done this same thing to me, I would be castigating you
RS> further than I am now.
RS> What right did you have to play God? What right did you have for
RS> YOUR choices to override David's choices? What right did you
RS> have to usurp David's decisions and choices and institute your
RS> own?
RS> What right did you have in telling others about David, rather
RS> than David doing it on his own time, and in his own way -- if
RS> necessary at all?
RS> Now, after answering all those questions, reanswer them
RS> substituting "RESPONSIBILITY" for "RIGHT"
RS> You will find you are NOT responsible for David's life,
RS> happiness, or choices. Ergo, you should not override them.
RS> Your actions are an insult to all other humans who value their
RS> freedom, Al.
RS> Rod "... if you'd abused my freedoms and choices the way you have
RS> done with David, I'd not be wanting to commit suicide anymore,
RS> but retribution..." Swift :(
Rod. While you're looking through old posts, look for one that ends with
me saying, "As far as I'm concerned, the 'Other Shoe' is DROPPED."
I could comment about a lot of things. But the key to it was two
misunderstandings or misassumptions...I assumed an individual knew more
about the matter than they did, and a different individual assumed I knew
more about another matter than I did.
Neither will be explicitedly laid out to you. The matter is dropped.
No other posts concerning the matter will EVER be responded to by me. You
have not the information to understand, and I by no means am going to give
it. I am only responding to you NOW because it was before your time here,
and you may not have come across that post yet. Nor will I respond to it
from anyone else.
I notice in another post you accused me of "sucking up" to you. If you
deem honest compliments sucking up, it's a matter of your misconceptions,
and insecurities, not mine. If you cannot find enough to discuss about
in
current postings and have to go back months, again, it is your silliness
not mine.
Now, if you will excuse me, I will go back to reading the article about
TIME's man of the year.
... Never offend with style what you can offend with substance.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: the real world
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:30:04
EID:2c4e 219d63c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b83f
AS> Two things, Mike.
AS> All truth is ONE. I do not agree with the contemporary feeling that
AS> compartimentalizes truth into scientific and religious terms. If God
AS> created the universe, that HAS to be part of the all that people who
AS> study nature must consider. If there IS a God, you HAVE to have God
as
AS> well as the science. They should compliment, not contradict each
AS> other.
MH> Absolutely ... which is why my belief is weakened when I realize how
MH> *little* direct evidence of God there is in the natural world.
We may be like intestinal fungi, arguing about the existence of a larger
being such as ourselves...and not have the viewpoint to realize he was all
around them.
AS> I think (and have argued repeatedly) that a God IS necessary
AS> for what we see in the constants of nature, on which everything else
AS> depends. As for why play hide and seek that way...because if He
AS> doesn't, He ruins the whole purpose.
MH> No, I no longer buy that. If God is righteous enough to immediately
MH> punish evil (which he's portrayed as doing repeatedly in the OT) then
MH> he's already blown the free-will game. If he's also merciful, and if
MH> our eternity depends on what we believe about him, then he should do
MH> whatever is necessary to make his existence unquestionable.
And that worked SOOOOOO well, didn't it?
Let's...for the sake of argument, take the tack that the story of Exodus
is literally true. That God led them, a cloud by day, a pillar by night,
rained manna on them, parted the Red Sea, etc. For about forty years, the
Israelites lived in close proximity to both God and Moses, who wielded
miraculous powers on behalf of God.
How could the Israelites possibly doubt?
Yet the funny thing is...and the part that makes it sound so odd that it
throws doubt on it being made up...is that they DID. Repeatedly. The
golden calf is but one example. Again and again, even though they could
SEE His actions pretty unmistakably, even though their lives
unquestionably depended on it, they kept on doubting. What storyteller
would make up a story where a miracle happened in front of their eyes, and
they STILL fell back into the old habits of doubting? If anything, they
tended to act worse...
You might look at that little period as an experiment. To see how Man,
of his free will, would react to close proximity to God. (Even if God knew
the answer beforehand, it showed US.) And it was not a cureall. Anything
but. It's as if we are scared and HAVE to deny if we get too close. That
it is too overwhelming, and one has to close off the evidence of one's own
senses to hold onto their sanity.
AS> If He is interested in creating intelligent beings, as the
AS> anthropic stuff indicates, it must be to USE that intelligence. And
AS> you may disagree, but I think the evidence is that some altruism is
AS> not simply to be explained in evolutionary terms, so part of our
AS> morality is God-derived (but not necessarily RELIGION derived---it is
AS> part of our heritage of being human, and atheists also know innately
AS> that killing randomly is wrong, unless they're sociopaths.)
MH> That's a non-sequitur. Real altruism may not be a survival trait, but
MH> it's also rare enough that it causes no overall harm to the species.
MH> No God needed to explain it; it's a quirk.
Then it's an odd quirk that runs through all the species...and all our
highest ideals embrace that "quirk". Very few societies don't agree that
selfless acts are holy, noble, and to be desired, no matter how rarely
they are carried out.
AS> do, which is really a good sign. If our morality was merely shaped
by
AS> evolutionary necessity, we would live solely by evolutionary
AS> criteria...and kill the disabled and retarded who cannot be cured, and
AS> might pass such genes along.
MH> Some have advocated that, and tried to justify it.
They have indeed. Nazi Germany comes to mind. But that is the exception,
not the rule. Even in primitive societies, the mad are often regarded as
"holy" and left alone.
AS> Thus the hide and seek. If He manifests Himself too overtly, we do
AS> good because we KNOW, without a douibt, that Big Brother is watching.
MH> Big Brother also knows if we would do good anyway, or are just doing
MH> it out of fear; meanwhile, those who would believe in and follow God
MH> if given enough evidence have thier evidence. If it saves even one
MH> soul, isn't it worth it to a loving Creator?
Not if it costs more souls the other way. We decide, as we always decide.
MH> No, but if you were driving down the street and saw one of your
MH> rebellious children being raped, would you let it go on without
MH> trying to stop it?
No; and this is where the analogy breaks down; because we're dealing with
an omnipotent being. If He interferes there, why should He stop? He allows
evil to exist for the same reason He allows our evil to exist...petty
cruelties or other infractions that I, at least, have committed. To a
perfect Being, all would be repugnant to Him, although not equally
repugnant. But if He interferes with them, then our freedom is but a
hollow sound.
Also be aware that your repugnance to the action is based on instinctive
morality that has its roots in Him. Many people have devised ethical
systems without reference to God, or gods, such as Kant's categorical
imperative, etc. But it is all justification after the fact. The very
morality that rejects it as cruel has its roots in God. And God sees
mankind abusing mankind. He does not interfere, because He thinks that the
freedom to choose outweighs the abuse that is possible if we are free.
You may disagree. But the very morality that you are using to judge such
has His roots in Him.
Another thing; humankind, as well as individual humans, are His
children. He wants us to come to grips with our own shortcomings and solve
them ourselves...just like if a Father ALWAYS carries a child, they won't
learn to walk. I'm not saying the individual isn't important. They very
much are. But humankind, as a whole, must learn to police itself and
correct itself, as a child learns to walk. Otherwise, in the long run,
many more individuals will be hurt by not living up to their own
potential.
AS> Dunno, Mike. Hell bothers the hell out of ME, too. But I regard it
AS> more as something I don't have enough info on. When I was growing up,
AS> scientists said they couldn't figure ouit the aerodynamics of a bee
AS> flying...(someone may have figured it out since then)...yet obviously
AS> a bee still flies. Either it's a metaphor for extinction of the soul,
AS> or as Paul said, a pagan's conscience is his advocate before God.
MH> Even if a pagan's conscience is his advocate, bad pagans still go to
MH> hell.
Or are extinguished. Yes. Of course, we have little information. Dante
placed the "good pagans" in the uppermost circle of Hell, which was like
this world, only forever. Certainly not a punishment, per se.
... All truths change, except for this one.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 12:17:52
EID:0abb 219d6220
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6b840
DC> It's getting to the point that there is nothing that he could
DC> possibly be responsible for, except Jesse Jone's belief in him.
AS> And the universe itself existing.
DC> Bought into John Brawley's "proof", I see.
Nope. Brawley's God has little to do with the anthropic stuff I harp on.
His is a by-product of the universe we observe, and as far as I understand
his theory, is not responsible for the creation of it. I think it's an
interesting theory, but his is more like Lovelock's "Gaea" hypothesis,
only with the universe instead of the biosphere as the organism. I think
it's an interesting approach, but my ideas are a little different. But at
least he has proposed a way to test it. That's more than _I_ can say.
... Of COURSE I'm on topic. (Which echo is this?)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Joe Shedlock
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 11:36:12
EID:67ee 219d5c80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6bfba
-=> Quoting Gwenny the Pooh to Joe Shedlock on 20 Dec 96 09:06:59 <=-
GtP> Heilsa, Joe!
Hi, Gwenny.
GtP> It's amazing what can happen if a guy turns off the computer and
GtP> actually looks at a woman. I kid you not, I had the experience of
GtP> aggressively flirting with a man for several hours while he just kept
GtP> showing me what his computer could do.
Several *hours*, huh? Musta been some great computer!
GtP> I wonder if some of the
GtP> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP> guidelines to getting girls.
I sure think that would be interesting and informative. :-)
... "Bother!" said Gwenny, "This martini was stirred, not shaken!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Joe Shedlock
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 29 Dec 96 11:42:06
EID:75ff 219d5d40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c6bfbb
-=> Quoting Gwenny the Pooh to Joe Shedlock on 17 Dec 96 08:35:43 <=-
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Joe say to Don:
JS> I beg to differ about whether such teachings are part of the
JS> culture. Some aspects of Catholicism restrict the property
JS> rights of an individual to basically the amount of property necessary
to
JS> support his family in comfort. Beyond that, he has no "moral" right
to
JS> excess property. So if Ecks takes a loaf of bread from Bill Gates'
JS> cupboard to feed himself and his starving family, this might be considered
JS> justified under Catholic teaching. It becomes a matter of semantics
JS> whether such a taking is "stealing" if Gates has excess property
JS> that he has no "moral" right to. Put another way, "theft" is defined
JS> as *UNJUST* appropriation of another's property, and this sort of taking
JS> would not be considered "theft" because not unjust. I can quote from
JS> some Catholic texts if that would really interest you.
GtP> Yes, I find this interesting. . .and fair.
And you won't find it talked about all that much, particularly among
those many right-wing Catholic Bishops who want to suck-up to the
Republican right. Yet you will find occasional statements that are
just enough to clue in the informed that the Catholic position is
not totally in line with the editorial page of _The Wall St. Journal_.
GtP> These "rights" are from the OT. Look in Leviticus. For example, read
GtP> Ruth. Ruth "gleans" in the fields after the workers (and the master
GtP> tells the workers to leave extra for her). Also, the fruits of a
GtP> fallow field or orchard belonged to the beasts and the poor.
There's also some discussion in the OT of a "jubilee year," i.e., one year
in 50 where, among other things, all debts were forgiven. Radical,
anti-capitalist idea there.
GtP> What makes you think the Catholicism and Captialism have anything in
GtP> common?
Generalissimo Francisco Franco, most of the US Catholic Bishops sucking
up to the Republican Right after WWII, Michael Novak, etc.
... Gwenny's love habits revealed!! On the next Geraldo!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: reposting
|Date: 29 Dec 96 16:42:29
EID:8ed3 219d8540
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Robert = Curry THEN Damien Wellman ELSE reposting
RC> It seems to have worked. What software does that BBS use? I would
RC> like to be made better aware of what to avoid. Thanks.
Well, it's a Renegade BBS, and it uses FrontDoor... I suppose any other
software would attach a tag of some sort to this message.
... "Who's for lizard bisuits with cypress gravy?" -- Joel Robinson
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Gerry Danen
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 29 Dec 96 11:59:00
EID:1f84 219d5f60
INTL 1:342/5013 1:342/1017
PID: MjF 3.25
MSGID: 1:342/1017 32c6a38c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8093
RS> GD> Sorry, I don't know anyone who speaks Latin.
RS> So you'll jump to conclusions without evidence and without
RS> knowing what you're talking about?
The only conclusion I jumped to, was that I didn't understand the "Quid,
etc." bit and for all I know could be called names... Sorry if my
ignorance of Latin offends you. And it's not that I don't know what _I_
am talking about, it's that I don't know what _YOU_ are talking about.
Big difference.
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Still don't know what that means. If you do, please enlighten me.
--- MajorBBS v6.25
* Origin: C+Net BBS * Edmonton, AB Canada * 403-477-9545 (1:342/1017)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 29 Dec 96 13:05:00
EID:5fe7 219d68a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1324fb35
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Then why, if the model universes we devise are random,
RC> Another *IF* from your bountiful bucket of baloney.
AS> It is indeed.
Maybe you should try something more nourishing, Baloney Boy.
RC> If you think that those "computed universes" form a representative
RC> sample, Al, then you are grossly misinformed.
AS> Then state your objection;
See above. I object to your bad habit of spouting misinformation.
AS> why are they not representative,
I already explained this to you; aren't you paying attention?
AS> and by what means do you determine they are not representative.
AS> (Notice I am not saying they ARE representative.)
No, Al, you aren't saying that NOW. I suppose that should count for
something, provided you avoid going back to the ridiculous claim
at some later date because time has passed and you think your errors
(and the corrections of them) will have been forgotten.
Only an utter ignoramus (in the fields of probability and statistics)
would imagine that a few instances selected solely from the axes
of a phase space is somehow automatically representative of the whole.
Your ignorance does not offend me, Al, but I did find your earlier
arrogance on this matter both inappropriate and repulsive.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 29 Dec 96 13:05:01
EID:cb46 219d68a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1324fb36
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> And even things "totally at random" must from logical necessity
RC> include patterns, too (your ignorant misconceptions notwithstanding).
AS> [They] MUST?
AS> Interesting assertion, Rob.
"Interesting" is always plus. And yes, they must.
AS> Please elucidate your claim.
Well, which part of the claim is unclear to you, Al? What exactly
requires elucidation for you to better comprehend the meaning?
AS> I will await with baited breath your proof of the "pattern"
AS> within pi.
"The" pattern? There are many. Infinitely many, in fact.
AS> My ignorant misconceptions notwithstanding.
Precisely.
Your entire attitude here reeks of misplaced arrogance and "hurt
little puppydog" petulance in those cases where you abandon
the pretension of knowing what you honestly and truly do not know.
If you seriously want this issue (which is intricately entwined with
chaos theory) explained to you interactively, then you will clean up
the pathetic posturing, immediately, and at least make an effort
to ask politely. You don't have to *be* sincere, but if you want
assistance from me in explaining mathematical theorems and related
ideas to you, you will at minimum have to *behave* sincerely.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 13:05:02
EID:c929 219d68a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1324fb37
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Think, Al: the logical possibilities of ANYTHING help
RC> to define the sample space of possible outcomes for
RC> the particular anything.
AS> Including the possibility of domains, correct? And that is
AS> what you got onto me for mentioning..."the domain theory" that
AS> you bristled so at.
For mentioning, no. You may "mention" whatever you please whenever
it strikes your fancy. But when you falsely attribute your idiotic
made up claims to me, I will cheerfully tear you a new asshole.
Retract your false attribution, Al, and then I will forget the
entire matter (though my personal archives will not).
All it takes is for you to correct your false claim that I stated
a "domain theory" defined the sample space I was asking you about.
AS> If you are going to play the pedant,
Because I don't care for you to make up silly tripe to attribute
to me, that makes me a pedant in your eyes? So be it, Asshole.
You are a real credit to your religion when you take the position
of a shameless liar or habitual bullshitter, complaining when you
get caught making up things that you falsely attribute to others.
AS> don't expect to be immune from it being tossed back
AS> in your face.
All you are tossing, Al, is your own shit. Have you no shame?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: moronitude exemplified
|Date: 29 Dec 96 13:05:03
EID:e796 219d68a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1324fb38
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> So I'm glad you concede (by implication) that
AS>> neutronium-being-the-only-state-of-matter would result
AS>> in no intelligent life in most cases.
RC> No, I'm simply ignoring your invalid restriction without
RC> implying anything whatsoever.
AS> IOW, you don't have an answer. Your privilege.
Privilege? Ridiculous! It is no *privilege* for me to be honest
about what I do or do not know -- it is a responsibility.
Are you not responsible for intellectual honesty, Al?
Will you presume every time someone ignores your ridiculous claims,
it means the alleged truth of your outrageous bullshit is somehow
being _conceded_ rather than merely passed over as irrelevant?
RC>> Can you [demonstrate the truth of your claim that in MOST
RC>> alternate universes there is zero possibility of intelligent
RC>> life evolving]?
AS>> On a case by case basis? Yes.
RC> ROFL! What a clown!
RC> How many cases? I would like to estimate the amount of time
RC> it would take for you to go over at least half of them.
AS> That's the question, isn't it?
Indeed. Do you have an answer? *How many cases, Al?*
AS> But does that make a difference?
If you are going to demonstrate on a case by case basis, -YES-.
AS> Can you demonstrate that every other person in the world
AS> isn't Robert Curry?
You are now making a pathetic attempt to evade my question for you.
AS> Certainly.
Quite the contrary! There are in fact at least two other Robert
Currys who also reside here in Pinellas County, which contains in
its boundaries fewer than a million people.
In the whole world, I don't know how many of us there are.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,F