God Damned Fundies!
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: new echo?
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:37:48
EID:c299 20379ca0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3105393a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4c939073
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:
GTP>RS>>> I justed added a new echo to my collection: MORMON. :)
GTP>> Have fun. I quit carrying it. They kept insisting I was
a
GTP>> liar because "good Mormon men" don't behave like I said they do.
KW> I get that from a very old friend who's gone Mormon. When I asked her
KW> about -Secret Ceremonies- she flatly denied that any such thing could
KW> have happened, tried to lay a line of bullshit on me about the men into
KW> gods crap, and then told me I would make a *good* Mormon. We still
get
KW> along mostly because we came to an understanding that if she EVER gave
KW> my name to their missionaries again, I would put her name on every New
KW> Age, Pagan, and 7th Day Adventist mailing list I could find.
I should have realized that I wasn't REALLY cut out to be a Moron when I
would never give the missionaries the names of my REAL friends.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Politically incorrect and proud of it.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Why
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:38:45
EID:147a 20379cc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3105399e
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 60a31a8e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Paganism does not consider itself a "lay" (realizing that
GtP>> I'm leaving that wide open) religion, but a religion of
GtP>> clergy. Once you are pagan, you are expected to study and
GtP>> learn and grow and take on the role of hps or hp yourself.
JJH> Huh?
JJH> Doesn't sound like an accurate description of Hinduism (a pagan
JJH> religion), Shinto (a pagan religion), Jainism (a pagan religion),
JJH> Santeria (a pagan religion)...
Ooops, busted.
JJH> Shall I continue?
By all means....my mother-in-law used to say if a person was bothering me,
they were leaving someone else alone.
JJH> Your belief system may be a subset of the set pagan, but that
JJH> doesn't entitle you to claim the name for your private use.
PLBHHHHH!
JJH> Remember, the Hairy Krishnas are pagans too.
I didn't even know they were humans....just kidding.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... I'm not late; I'm temporally challenged.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Judgement
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:40:27
EID:1b61 20379d00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 310539d5
REPLY: 1:271/460 30fc7ca0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Kenneth!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Kenneth say to Gwenny:
KM>>>>> Keep on, there's a being named Lucifer that might be interested
KM>>>>> in what you saying. But he too one day will bow his knees before
KM>>>>> God and declare that Christ is LORD.
AH>>>> Sorry, your Jesus has to wait in a long line behind Zeus, Apollo,
AH>>>> and loads of other Supreme Beings that were invented before your
AH>>>> Jesus was.
KM>>> Sorry Alan, but Jesus was the one that created everything.
GtP>> And your evidence for this is.....
KM> The Bible.
The babble doesn't count as evidence anymore than the works of Shakespeare
counts as history. Back on the twit list for you.
KM> -+- FMail 0.96т
KM> + Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... (A)bort (R)etry (P)retend this never happened?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:41:19
EID:b67d 20379d20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053a06
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89080E23
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
PS>>> And here I was thinking that Noah was commanded to fit two of every
PS>>> creature into the ark. Guess that the Bible's lying about that too.
CM>> You really are sad. You take the obvious, and twist it to make the
CM>> Bible "lie". Get a life.
GTP>> Gen 6:18-22 "But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will
GTP>> enter the ark--you and your sons and your wife and your sons wives
GTP>> with you. You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures,
GTP>> male
GTP>> Now, HOW did he twist it to make the Bible lie??
DC> Because it doesn't agree with what Xian Miller's handlers taught
DC> him, which really isn't much when you come down to it...
Ahhhh, and he's never responded to my questions about the ark. I wonder
why?
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if you're holding a beer in your wedding picture.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: 19th Cent Holysmoke?! 1-7
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:42:01
EID:62d1 20379d40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053a2a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 30fe37bf
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Gwenny:
LB>> I came across a document on the Freethought Web which contains a long
LB>> series of lectures by Helen H. Gardner, with an introduction by Robert
LB>> Ingersoll. Her wit and many of her points reminded me so much of our
LB>> own little echo, that I decided to share some snippets with you all.
LB>> In spite of the length of this "Reader's Digest condensed version",
LB>> this only represents about 20% of the whole piece. If there is
LB>> interest, and with Styx' permission, I will post the thing in its
LB>> entirety, but meanwhile enjoy. :)
GtP>> I'm interested. Got it in file form??
LB> Yup -- I have it as a text file. (stripped of html because I'm a really
LB> nice person) Now, what should I do with it?
Ummmm, can you netmail it as a file attach or tell me where to call and
get it??
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... What kind of world is it where the reality is weirder then the satire?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Christian Miller
|Sub: Fundamentalist Are Insane 4/
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:42:39
EID:296a 20379d40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053b90
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 90118d7a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Christian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Christian say to Gwenny:
Gt>> BUT, had she kept her mouth shut, she would have continued to get
Gt>> money from me, because I feel sorry for her. In fact, since that was
CM> He'll still provide for her whether it's via you, or another person.
And your evidence for this is??? Back when I was counting on him for my
life and health and prosperity I was miserable, sick, and poor. I gave
up. Now, while I wouldn't call us rich, we have a nice home, I have a good
job with promotion potential, I am healthier than I've been since childhood,
and I have a loving husband instead of a man who beats me because it's okay
with god. Maybe it's the other way around, Mom takes care of you even when
you're too stupid to know it's Her.
Gt>> BTW, Mom called (the earthly one) the other day and said she's
Gt>> mellowing out. Even drug-abusing biker bitches like my sis used to
be
Gt>> should only have to repent for so long.
CM> "Mellowing out", eh? When one first gets saved they seem to be
CM> one of the "holy rollers". :) The "mellowing out" is simply comes with
CM> time.
Care to make any wagers??? I used to live where my sis does now. I know
the congregation she attends. I give her another year at most. I
remember when the minister of that church forced a girl to go back to her
husband (even though her mother and I were waiting to take her out of state),
and he beat her that very night....so hard she lost her baby. The real
killer was that she had just finished burying her one-year-old. Good came
of it though. She left the church and her asshole husband got hit by a
semi while walking home drunk one night. Gee, maybe there is a deity.
CM> Christian
Goddess.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... REAL multitasking - 3 computers and a chair with wheels!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Christian Miller
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:48:39
EID:c65b 20379e00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053c57
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 9011929a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Christian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Christian say to Gwenny:
Gt>> Been there, done that. The Christian counselor charge $25 more per
Gt>> hour than the "regular" ones....and his advice what that I needed
CM> Well a TRUE CHRISTIAN [tm] does not charge. Maybe you should've looked
CM> a little harder.
Every xtian I've ever seen does all they can to make a buck off of you.
Gt>> more faith, not Lithium and that I needed to hit my kids. Of
CM> On their butt.
NO, fool. I am talking especially about my eldest, who has a chemical imbalance
that causes him to have difficulty dealing with ANY emotion. Had I hit
him, betrayed him, he would now be permanently committed in the mental hospital.
Violence, of ANY kind, is seldom the answer. If you can't control 'em by
three, chances are you never will. I WILL NOT HIT MY KIDS....perverts.
Gt>> course, he also developed a mysterious back problem when Desert Storm
Gt>> started....he was an Air Force chaplain in addition to his psychology
Gt>> practice.
CM> Don't see what that has to do with Christianity.
He was a Christian. He was a coward. He was a therapist. He couldn't
deal with his own fear. He was a Christian. Seems to go together for me.
CM> Christian
Goddess
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... White Light is NO substitute for a shower!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Christian Miller
|Sub: Gods, not god
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:51:58
EID:c177 20379e60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053c90
REPLY: 1:3603/800@fidonet.org 9011953f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Christian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Christian say to Gwenny:
Gt>> And your reproducible evidence that your mythgawd created this "rock"
Gt>> we call a world IS......
CM> I believe in what is written in Genesis.
I believe what was written in Song of Songs. Now, how about some evidence
instead of poetry.
CM> Christian
Goddess
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Creationists: Transitional forms between idiots and morons.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:52:45
EID:e9a5 20379e80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053cd5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Judith!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Judith say to Gwenny:
GTP>> I can do it in less than 30 minutes....I used to sell three times
a
GTP>> week. It put food on the table. But the scars it leaves. Yech!
JB> I know what you mean. I have to carry my donor card at all times...so
I
JB> don't get busted for being a junkie.
Mine aren't quite that bad. And Hunter doesn't want me donate
anymore.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Friends don't let friends do 2400 Baud...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: OPINION POLL
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:54:23
EID:8dac 20379ec0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053d36
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 30ffe1f7
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:
RJ>> The Chinese used rockets to scare the hell out of their
RJ>> enemies in battle. They flipped a coin with the Scottish, who
RJ>> lost on the turn and got stuck with the bagpipes.
GtP>> The Scots won.
RJ> Of course, painting yourself blue and running stark naked
RJ> at your enemy helps. Imagine what would've happened
RJ> if bagpipes could fire rockets as well!
Oh, there quite scary enough in the wrong hands. Hmmm, how about painting
yourself blue and running stark naked at your friends?
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if your wife's job requires her to wear an orange vest.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: WHAT??
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:55:32
EID:bd4c 20379ee0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053d52
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 3100336d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:
JB>> Just want to reassure you that you aren't going crazy or in the first
JB>> stages of Alzheimers.
GtP>> I can't remember my first period...something every woman remembers.
GtP>> Sometimes I just sit and try to think of it and it's just not there.
GtP>> Sigh.
RJ> My ex-gf remembers hers. She's the one I mentioned is what
RJ> happens when someone like Maria raises children. Her mother
RJ> called her a tramp, because she figured any girl who had a
RJ> period was probably having sex.
The ignorance of some people. Sigh.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Hockey players love a good puck.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: THIS TOTALLY BLOWS M
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:55:57
EID:f8ec 20379ee0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053d96
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 3100337a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Gwenny:
GtP>> ... Never take a beer to a job interview ... unless you're a
GtP>> braumeister. -!-
RJ> There's a microbrewery a mile from my home--I've toured the
RJ> place and staggered home giggling for free. But one thing
RJ> that impressed me was the job descrip of the brew staff.
Oooh, sounds like something Wild would like.
RJ> Imagine...getting fired for not drinking on the job.
I'd get fired....I hardly drink at all except at Dfest.
RJ> ... "Bother", said Pooh, as his mead wort boiled over.
Yep, cuz she knew who'd have to clean up the mess.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Barium: What you do with dead chemists.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: RONALD VASS
|Sub: Churches
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:57:37
EID:03af 20379f20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053e9a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, RONALD!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
RONALD say to GWENNY:
RV> I think this is the part ,you are talking about.
RV> -*-
RV> COMMENT:
RV> Judges 19 describe a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken
RV> mob. When the father says "unto this man do not so vile a thing," he
makes
RV> clear that sexual abuse should never befall a man (meaning him), yet
a
RV> woman, even his own flesh and blood, or a concubine belonging to a perfect
RV> stranger, can receive punishment from men to do what they wish. This
RV> attitude against women still persists to this day and we have the Bible,
in
RV> large part, to thank for this attitude against women.
Agreed. It is my feeling that the early bible writers were trying to suppress
what was left of a earlier matriarchal system, and there were no holds bared.
RV> Verse 25 describes the hours long gang rape of the poor concubine. The
RV> Bible gives not one hint of passion or concern for the raped girl.
RV> Considering that many people believe that every word in the Bible
comes
RV> from God, it should not surprise anyone why people still use these verses
RV> to justify such atrocities.
I love his responce. After he kicks her and she doesn't move, he cuts her
up and sends her parts to all the tribes of Israel. They decide to destroy
the Benjamites, but end up just killing all the kids and women. So then
they repent, and have to find wives for the Benjamites. This they do by
destroying the one town that didn't take part in the massacre and stealing
their virgin baby girls. Gotta love it.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Error loading GOD.SYS (A)bort or (U)nzip BIGBANG.ZIP.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: WHITE-LIGHTER RELIGIO
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:01:23
EID:ec26 2037a020
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053ee3
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 60dae118
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Gwenny:
GtP>> You need to research more.
JJH> Uh huh...
GtP>> In our community we have a pretty good population of
GtP>> "elders"....ie, retired folks who have been practicing
GtP>> witchcraft for several generations.
JJH> And you have demographic evidence to support this claim?
JJH> I need it for my "research".
What do you need. Would you settle for a list of the folks I know, names
changed, and their ages??
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... I not dyslexic am. Confused just.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: COINCIDENCE SCREW UP
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:02:38
EID:d51f 2037a040
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31053f12
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 098f0146
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Sean say to Gwenny:
>> With goats....
>> Saw a cute tagline the other day....
>> ... Why did god make men? Cuz cucumbers can't lift boxes.
<>
SM> 'A good Goat will do that!!'"
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Life after death? Is that like terminate and stay resident?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: ARK nut
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:05:03
EID:1ddc 2037a0a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3105406a
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31036b83
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Oh, I thought Jesus wanted to be in everyone.
CR>> ... A fool's mouth is his destruction. Proverbs 18:7
GtP>> Like a lame man's legs that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of
a
GtP>> fool. Proverbs 26:7
SW> "Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he
will
SW> love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be still; teach a righteous
man
SW> and he will add to his learning." -Proverbs 9:8,9
SW> "Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will
SW> understand them...The ways of the Lord are right; the righteous walk
in
SW> them, but the rebellious stumble in them." -Hosea 14:9
Like I said, like a lame man's legs....
SW> "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and
SW> there is no other." -Isaiah 45:22
For all people will walk every one in the name of his god and we will walk
after the name of the LORD our God forever and ever. Micah 4:5
SW> May the blinfolds be lifted from your eyes...
No blindfolds since I stopped being blinded by Christianity.
SW> Take care and Godbless!
And the Goddess, in Her Manifold Forms, bless you.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... `Who's an omen? Aaaaaaark.' - the four budgies of the apocalypse
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Why
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:09:09
EID:4c06 2037a120
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31054194
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31036b85
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Gwenny:
SW> You cant blame God for the actions of some bozo who claimed to be a
SW> Christian. What happened to you was unfortunate but it wasnt God's fualt
SW> for it. While we are in this world, evil is all around. Evil is bound
to
SW> happen, but woe unto the man who causes the offence.
Sure I can. I can do anything I like. His people promised me that he would
protect and guard me. He didn't. He lied. Well, his "voices" lied. He
doesn't exist.
SW> Its unfair if you judge the crop by one bad apple. Even you
SW> must realize this. We all make mistakes in life and sometimes we have
SW> to pay the price for our actions.
They are almost all bad apples. They willfully hurt people in the name
of their god.
GtP>> What happens is, a person who has never been able to really take
GtP>> care of him/herself reaches a point where all the people around
GtP>> him/her gives up. So they have to create a superfriend to take the
GtP>> place of all the people who used to take care of him/her
SW> Sound to me like youve never really had a Christian family of believer's
SW> who were there for you.
My family went to church every Sunday when I was small. Didn't keep the
stepfather from raping me or the minister from calling me a liar when I
tried to get help.
SW> If you would, Id ask that you find yourself a cool
SW> Christian Church with a dynamite group of believers and whatch the
SW> way you would be acepted and befriended. It would amaze you.
Been there. Done that. They will only accept you as long as you change
to suit them. They will NOT, I quarantee you, accept me JUST as I am.
SW> I'll pray for ya Gewnee. Hope things get better for ya. Take care and
SW> Godbless!
Ahhh, yes, another jerk who subtly demeans me by mispelling my name. It's
right in the header...get it right, or don't bother.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Magic is but true love of life and spirit... Magick Happens!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Baking bread
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:14:00
EID:e5a9 2037a1c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 310541b9
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890D0E29
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
DC>>>> Did you ever get the info on high altitude baking [..]
DC>> any additional information.
GTP>> Sure will. Today is shopping, I may try one out tonight.
DC> Well, did you get the chance? If so, how did it work out?
No, Wild went shopping with me and I forgot half the stuff I went for....I
don't know why that happens.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Orange Juice! The Life's Blood of Florida!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:14:49
EID:5dac 2037a1c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 310544e0
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492a9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Sugar, the ark wasn't large enough to hold all the different species
GtP>> of bovine, let alone elephants (there were three or four species
GtP>> then, including mammoths), giraffes, bears, all the big cats, whales
GtP>> (is says everything that had breathe in it's nostrils), walruses,
all
GtP>> the types of deer and antelope, and the rest of the critters. Not
GtP>> only
SW> Well, one would speculate the calculations of the ark to be about 3
SW> football fields long and 3 levels high.
That MIGHT hold the food animals.
SW> However it also assumed by most that most fo the various species of
SW> animals that are around topday, derived from a single species. (Check
SW> your local library for info).
Not in three or four thousand years they didn't. Besides, it says that
all creatures and plants reproduce "according to their various kinds."
How could they have changed? Also, HOW did the kangaroos get back to Australia
and why didn't some of them stick around in the Middle East?
SW> As for whales, what good would an ark be for them? Are they not sea
SW> creatures?
They have breath in their nostrils...that's what god specified. But, since
YOU brought up sea creatures, how did all the fish live?? The influx of
that much water would have caused fresh and salt water to mingle and would
have diluted the salt to levels toxic to sea dwelling creatures. How did
the fish survive. (If you have any doubts, try starting a salt water aquarium.)
GtP>> that, but HOW did the kangaroo travel all the way from Australia and
GtP>> why didn't some of them stick around the ark afterwards.
SW> How did the natives get there? They must have built a boat an sailed
there
SW> along with some animals. Why australia only has kangaroo's, I cannot
say.
But the natives were in Australia BEFORE the flood and have never left.
GtP>> that Noah would have had to lay in another herd beast per week per
GtP>> pair of predator.....let's see, say there were twelve different kinds
GtP>> of big cats, eight different kinds of wolves, and two bears....that's
GtP>> twenty-two deer a week. A VERY cursory glance at Genesis puts the
GtP>> time in the ark at around 387 days...about 55 weeks...times 22
GtP>> animals.... around 1,210 animals needed to be kept to keep the
GtP>> predators from chowing down on the animals Noah wanted to save to
GtP>> repopulate the earth.
SW> Under the conditions stated in the Bible it obviously would have been
SW> a very dense and dark place and is speculated that most of the animals
SW> would have hibernated during most of this period hence reducing the
strain
SW> on Noah and family to care for them all.
Most predators do not hibernate. It would have taken a total change in
their physiology to have allowed them to do so, since hibernation is caused
by a change in the blood chemistry. Those that do hibernate do so because
of cold or because of drought...neither of which condition existed. Herd
beasts, also, do not hibernate. Small creatures like voles, shrews, and
hummingbirds MUST, repeat MUST eat at least their weight in food EVERY DAY.
To go for even a day or two dooms them. And speaking of hummingbirds, where
did he get fresh flowers for them??
SW> Then there's the grain and hay for the grazers
GtP>> (do you have ANY idea how much ONE elephant eats in a day?)....and
GtP>> how about FRESH bamboo for the pandas and FRESH eucalyptus for the
GtP>> koalas (some will die rather than eat anything not fresh)....then
we
GtP>> have the problem of some of the large predatory birds that won't eat
GtP>> anything they haven't killed themselves. And how did he get JUST
two
GtP>> cockroaches. Oh, and speaking of insects, how did he keep the
GtP>> termites from snacking on the ark? What did he feed the
GtP>> mosquitoes....and how did he manage to keep from getting malaria,
GtP>> since it would have had to survive the flood in the gut of a
GtP>> mosquito. An item by item answer would be appreciated. And when
GtP>> you're done, I have more questions.
SW> I dont have all the answers Gwinny, but God does. We can take God at
His
SW> word or we can ignore whats written. The choice is ours. May God bless
you
SW> as you ponder the scriptures.
Last chance. Gwenny. Get it right or get twitted. I've made the choice.
The scriptures are myth like all myth...stories made up by technologically
backward people to explain phenomenon beyond their understanding.
BTW, IF god exists and he EVEN THINKS about blessing me, I'm gonna tell
Mom. It's about time he got put in the corner anyway.
SW> Godbless
Goddess bless.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... Power is an illusion; only stupidity is real.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: On the fifth day of Satan
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:30:44
EID:8245 2037a3c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 310545d8
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 609d3921
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Asmodeus:
A>> See you in Hell!
JJH> Today is Day FIVE of my Satanic Curse.
JJH> Nothing has happened.
JJH> On the Fifth Day of Satan, Asmodeus sent to me...
JJH> FIVE nothings..
JJH> FOUR nothings..
JJH> THREE nothings..
JJH> TWO nothings..
JJH> And a nothing in a nothing tree... la la la
Okay, you deserve this
In the house on the hill where the gremlins like to play are
Five fuzzy cats,
Four noisy kids,
Three silly dogs,
Two grouchy parents,
And a box full of socks that don't match.
(compliments of my daughter, Starfire)
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... \The worst thing about censorship is лллллллллл and it лллллллллллллл!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Pt 1/4: Interesting discourse
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:35:09
EID:fd4f 2037a460
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 3105472d
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 609da6cb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
JJH> over the internet on America Online called R.I.S.K.E.R.S. They
Hey, how about we start a group called W.H.I.S.K.E.R.S...We Hate Insolent
Selfish Kooky Evangelical Religious Scum.
Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Gwenny
... A room without books is like a body without a soul.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: SATANIST
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:11:00
EID:8dd0 20379960
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 d55f0e71
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 60fadfdc
On (23 Jan 96) J.J. Hitt wrote to AL SCHROEDER...
JH> As>> I practise the sins in ways that harm no one who does not
JH> As>> deserve it. So if someone has won my anger, and I rip him
JH> As>> off, this is a good thing, for I get some cool shit and
JH> As>> because of his/her loss s/he become hurt just a little.
AS> Congratulations. You have even sunk LOWER in my estimation.
AS> Hard to do.
JH> And that without anyone even accusing him. He just comes out
JH> of the complete blue and brags about being a thief in an
JH> international echo.
JH> That puts him even lower than Don Ward.
JH> VERY VERY HARD to do.
JH> But, on the bright side of all this: as long as Asomdeus sticks
JH> around no one can accuse me of only harassing Christians.
I figure Staal et al invited him in here so that on the days
when he was feeling most rotten about himself, he'd have somebody
to look at that was even rottener than he is.
... If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: animal abortions
|Date: 22 Jan 96 21:40:00
EID:1db2 2036ad00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Ryan Shaw to Michael Hardy <=-
RS> Today I took `Layla', my feline friend in to get her womanhood taken
RS> out and discarded. At first I decided not to have her spayed, but the
RS> first heat cycle had me convinced otherwise.
RS> The vet informed me of various things as she was injecting drugs to
RS> prep the cat. One thing she stated was that sometimes they get
RS> pregnant cats in to be spayed and sometimes they have to take the cat
RS> fetii out and discard them.
RS> I know you are of the opinion that life starts at conception, we've
RS> covered this in the past.
RS> In your opinion is it immoral to discard the cat fetii such as this?
I have also made it clear that only *human* life is sacred, in my
opinion. While we should treat animals humanely, we do not consider
them different kinds of human. Hence, I wouldn't use a cow as an
archery target, but I eat steak and wear leather.
Is this the best you can do?
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: census
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:14:00
EID:a8e6 2037a9c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> In fact, the Romans *did* require people to travel to their
MH> birthplace in order to register for a census. A census edict from
MH> Egypt, from 104 a.d., shows that they did just that. It begins: "Gaius
MH> Vibius Maximus, prefect of Egypt, says: The house-to-house census
MH> having started, it is essential that all persons who for any reason
MH> whatsoever are absent from their homes be summoned to return to their
MH> own hearths, in order that they perform the customary business of
MH> registration." ("A History of Rome Through the Fifth Century, ed.
MH> A.H.M. Jones, c. 1970, Harper and Row.)
LB> That doesn't sound like anything other than "Don't hang out in the
LB> market today, we don't want to knock on your door and have you not be
LB> there" It doesn't indicate anything about travelling away from your
LB> current residence.
It wasn't like a TV announcement, you know. By sayng "The census having
started," and knowing that the census would take some time -- weeks or
months -- to complete, it obviously means something more long-term than
"be at your house this afternoon."
And you didn't address what may be the more important point -- if the
story of Joseph and Mary having to travel to Bethlehem is so
farfetched, then how did the gospel story get taken seriously among
people who would have known that?
... Pull the other one.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:16:00
EID:0b47 2037aa00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A2
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
DH> Illogical argument. Perfection does NOT demand absolute ability. YOU
DH> have chosen to include that concept in your definition of perfection,
DH> that's all. A God who chooses to create natural laws, and then
DH> chooses to follow his own laws, has got to be considered perfect. A
DH> god who would set aside his own laws at a whim, would have to be
DH> considered IMPERFECT, since then his creatures could not trust any of
DH> those laws. This leads to the conclusion that there are no miracles,
DH> since miracles by definition suggest that natural law has been
DH> suspended. That which we consider miracles must therefore somehow
DH> abide within the realm of natural law, and we should also be able,
DH> eventually, to discover what natural law they follow. It is my belief
DH> that such is, in fact, the case.
LB> I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again -- I LIKE what you
LB> say! After being told for months that I'm the only one in the "room"
LB> who thinks this way, it's really great to see that I'm not alone about
LB> this.
MH> A God who cannot work outside of the physical laws He created is not
MH> much of a God, IMO.
LB> I just carefully re-read Dick's post and I don't see "cannot" in there
LB> anywhere. Do you?
Then what do you suppose he means by:
DH> This leads to the conclusion that there are no miracles,
DH> since miracles by definition suggest that natural law has been
DH> suspended. That which we consider miracles must therefore somehow
DH> abide within the realm of natural law, and we should also be able,
DH> eventually, to discover what natural law they follow. It is my belief
DH> that such is, in fact, the case.
It seems to me he is saying God cannot violate natural laws, and any
case where it seems God has done so is merely a matter of God working
within a natural law we haven't yet discovered. That's my understanding
of what he wrote; if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to stand corrected.
LB> As I parent, I've instituted certain laws -- you take it out, you put
LB> it away.
LB> Don't use words like "hate" when you're angry. Don't hit. Now, would
LB> you say
LB> I wasn't much of a parent if I didn't ignore those "laws" myself?
Moral laws are a different thing than physical laws. You also tell your
small children not to drive your car, but you drive it.
MH> I agree that a God who violated the laws of nature "on a whim" would
MH> not be a trustworthy God. But I reject the notion that God is
MH> constrained by those laws. If God chooses to suspend them for some
MH> specific purpose, he certainly can do so.
LB> Agreed, he can. But do you think he DID, in all the myriad examples
LB> we have in the Bible, for all they myriad reasons offered (some
LB> trivial, others which seem to be no more than the "God is on my side"
LB> thinking popular today with football teams). Do you think all there
LB> miracles surrounding Jesus birth -- and there are MANY -- are without
LB> mythological root?
Perhaps, perhaps not. I have no firm opinion on the stories surrounding
Jesus's birth. I do believe that God could quite easily have caused a
virgin to conceive and give birth. That is the central point of the
story, and it is less important whether Magi came from the east or not.
MH> Things such as the Resurrection of Christ do not "abide within the
MH> realm of natural law."
LB> On that I will agree -- something definitely happened there that
LB> defies the "natural" order of things...and by our theology, that too
LB> was planned from the beginning. Spiritually, Jesus came to RESTORE
us
LB> to our natural relationship with God, and by breaking those spiritual
LB> barriers, he probably did break a few physical ones. But if miracles
LB> are so common -- either in Hebrew history, OR in the early life of
LB> Jesus, what makes THIS one so special?
All miracles in Judeo-Christian tradition are demonstrations of God's
power. And they really aren't all that common. Most of them center
around Moses and Jesus, and to a lesser extent, Elijah and Elisha.
There are centuries of Israel's history recorded where miraculous
events seem pretty rare.
LB> And even in this case, precisely what DID happen had to be conveyed
LB> through the imperfect media of human speech and human perception --
the
LB> description we have of that event shouldn't be placed on a pedestal
so
LB> that we start blasting one another for a different understanding of
it.
LB> I think we are ALL one day going to be equally awestruck to learn what
LB> the full detail of that action was, and what all it accomplished.
I'm sure you're right about that!
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: true christians
|Date: 22 Jan 96 21:55:00
EID:8a97 2036aee0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> True Christians are those who can show how their beliefs and
MH> actions are consistent with the teachings of Jesus, without
SQ>
SQ> OK, that's fine. I'll buy that.
MH> having to resort to a lot of mental gymnastics to do so. They
MH> may genuinely try to abide by those teachings, yet succumb to
MH> temptation. If they do, they admit they have failed and accept
MH> forgiveness.
SQ> My question would be "So when you admit you've failed and accept
SQ> forgiveness, how do you know I've offered it to you?" You get
SQ> forgiveness from the guy up in the clouds, but when you've
SQ> metaphorically pissed on my leg for Jesus, what say do _I_ have in
SQ> this? Isn't this along the lines of shirking responsibility for your
SQ> own actions? If someone shoots my father in the back after he's heard
SQ> God in his head commanding him to do so, Jesus may forgive him, but
_I_
SQ> sure don't. Why should I?
Whether you forgive him or not is your decision. God's forgiveness is
not tied to yours, thankfully. In the gospels, Jesus proounces the sins
of several people forgiven, without consulting the various people they
had wronged. HAVING SAID THAT, let me hasten to add that anyone who
really repents of their wrongs will at least try to gain forgiveness
from the people they've hurt as well as God. There's a story from the
Gospel of Luke which illustrates that:
"But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, 'Look, Lord! Here and
now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated
anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.'
Jesus said to him, 'Today salvation has come to this house.'" (Luke
19:8-9)
MH> False Christian scum are those who either latch on to a
MH> handful of teachings, take them out of context and ignore
MH> everything else in an effort to justify their behavior, or
MH> else never took it seriously in the first place, but use it to
MH> manipulate others or falsely elevate themselves in the
MH> community.
SQ> So, where do the following sit in all of this?
SQ> Michael Griffin
SQ> Paul Hill
SQ> Maria Russell
SQ> Jesse Jones
SQ> Jim Staal
SQ> Mark Staal aka "Lump"
SQ> Lon S. Mabon (who is most likely Jim Staal anyways)
SQ> Careful: If you dodge the question, then I am left to make the call
SQ> myself, and at some point I'm going to once again ask how I distinguish
SQ> between the True Christians and the False Christian scum.
I don't presume to question the salvation of anyone -- that is God's
judgment, not mine. I have given you a definition, which is what you
asked for. YOU apply it as you see fit.
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: trinity
|Date: 22 Jan 96 22:03:00
EID:7bcc 2036b060
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Michael Hardy <=-
JH> It's a logical inference? The why all the gobbledygook about
JH> it being a "mystery"?
JH> Can you explain the logic that results in the conclusion that
JH> three is one?
How many dimensions will you give me? What doesn't make sense in three
may well make sense in ten.
Frankly, I find the whole issue boring and irrelevant. My understanding
of the Trinity is simply that one God expresses himself in three ways
which are distinct enough to be considered "persons."
... Don't be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Christian
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:04:00
EID:bc27 2037a080
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Robert Jackson to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Note carefully what I said ... "through their own poor choices." I
MH> don't know exactly how God will deal with those who never heard the
MH> gospel, but I do believe God is fair. He will not condemn someone for
MH> not believing who never had a chance to make the decision. However,
I
RJ> Still, where do they go when they die? No wait, you don't
RJ> believe in...LIMBO, do you???
No, I think they go to either heaven or hell. And I think God's
judgment is fair in either case. But I wouldn't deign to say more than
that.
MH> don't think ignorance equals a free ride, either. Probably God will
MH> judge those who didn't know about Jesus based on whatever they did
MH> know.
RJ> But if he's the One True God , why would he create people
RJ> who live all their lives in perfect ignorance of him?
I don't think he does "create" people. He gave us reproductive systems
for that.
RJ> wouldn't you suppose that the reason deism and atheism became
RJ> viable alternatives to Judeo-Christian monotheism had a good
RJ> bit to do with the intellectuals of the 18th century affording
RJ> the technology and financial freedom to travel to far-flung
RJ> lands where the Hebraic god never set foot? To me, that this
RJ> tribal god hadn't made his unifying message explicit in every
RJ> culture on Earth, he was just asking for people to lose
RJ> belief.
I think that humanity in the beginning had a knowledge of God. As they
spread around the globe, some retained it and some lost it. But I don't
have an easy answer for this problem.
RJ> It ranks up there with listening to the apologists who
RJ> say God put fossils in the ground to test people's faith. What
RJ> sort of god COMMANDS total subjection and fear, yet
RJ> simultaneously sows so many seeds of doubt? That to me sounds
RJ> like he deliberately makes it hard for people to believe--and
RJ> thus the threats of eternal damnation are all that's left to go
RJ> on. Makes God sound rather nasty...I could never worship
RJ> something like that.
I wouldn't either, but I don't see God that way at all. As I said at
the top, I believe God is, above all, fair. I don't claim to know the
answer to every question; but my faith tells me there *are* answers,
whether I know them or not.
... SEX education? I thought this was SECTS education!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Mark Hogan
|Sub: A Day In The Life...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:18:00
EID:d999 2037aa40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Mark Hogan to Michael Hardy <=-
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Sue Armstrong <=-
JS> (Gal 1:9 NIV) As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody
JS> is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be
JS> eternally condemned!
SA> Nifty. Since I accept the writings of Lao Tzu (which can be
SA> considered "good news" - ie, "gospel"), therefore any Christian who
SA> preaches to me the bible is condemned. Har.
MH> You don't seriously think that's what it means, do you?
MHo> Well, not to mince words, but it is the literal gist of it.
No, it isn't, and her error (if it was an error on her part
and not a jibe) it comes from ignoring the context. Paul is writing to
a group of Christians, and telling them that if anyone tries to teach
them something other than Paul's understanding of Christianity, they
are not to listen.
In its historical context, this was written against the Judaizers, a
semi-Christian sect that believed Christ-followers should still be
circumcised and obey the laws of Moses. Paul's understanding was that
Jesus had fulfilled the laws of Moses and so they are no longer in
effect. Instead, Jesus replaced them with a less legalistic and more
gracious ethic: Love your neighbor. Love embodies all of the moral
principles of the laws of Moses -- no murder, adultery, theft, etc. --
without the ceremonial trappings, dietary regulations and so on.
... The world is a beautiful book, for those who can read it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Dahl
|Sub: Re: Larry Sites
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:14:00
EID:2f69 2037a1c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Dahl to Michael Hardy <=-
LS> Make you feel good, cunt? How come the dick that's your head isn't
LS> here instead of you?
MH> To all non-Christians: He's one of yours.
DD> Yeah? Sure, you may think Sites is an Asshole, but he's NOT
DD> a REAL TRUE Asshole! He's False Asshole Scum!
DD> Seriously: why should we non-Christians be concerned that
DD> Sites is also a non-Christian? What is your point?
It's a jibe at those who constantly harp about how Michael Griffin or
some other nasty sort of person calls himself a Christian, trying to
make all of us guilty by implication.
... I am Mother of Borg ... no dessert until your broccoli is assimilated.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: A Day In The Life...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:16:00
EID:2341 2037a200
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
JS> (Gal 1:9 NIV) As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody
JS> is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be
JS> eternally condemned!
SA> Nifty. Since I accept the writings of Lao Tzu (which can be
SA> considered "good news" - ie, "gospel"), therefore any Christian who
SA> preaches to me the bible is condemned. Har.
MH> You don't seriously think that's what it means, do you?
DC> Why not, Mikey? It's written in your book.
See a post in this packet from me to Mark Hogan for the answer to your
query.
... I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: census
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:17:00
EID:038e 2037a220
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47A9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> In fact, the Romans *did* require people to travel to their
MH> birthplace in order to register for a census. A census edict from
MH> Egypt, from 104 a.d., shows that they did just that. It begins: "Gaius
MH> Vibius Maximus, prefect of Egypt, says: The house-to-house census
MH> having started, it is essential that all persons who for any reason
MH> whatsoever are absent from their homes be summoned to return to their
MH> own hearths, in order that they perform the customary business of
MH> registration." ("A History of Rome Through the Fifth Century, ed.
MH> A.H.M. Jones, c. 1970, Harper and Row.)
DC> Re-read what you wrote a bid more closely, Michael. It says nothing
DC> of having to travel all over the world to get to their house. Most
DC> people did not travel far for a living in those days. They were
DC> home every night for supper. It says nothing about going to the
DC> place of their birth, only to their houses to help facilitate the
DC> count of those that lived in the locale.
Think it over very carefully, Dan. The census would take weeks or
months to complete. No single edict issued at the beginning of the
census would tell anyone which night he should be home. It's much more
likely that it refers to people who have left their place of birth,
telling them to return there for registration. (It makes the
bookkeeping easier, and the Romans weren't big on compassion toward the
people who would have to travel.)
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: FOF
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:45:00
EID:b8a8 2037a5a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 890D47AA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Ryan Shaw <=-
RS> ...anyhow, I think Steve was pointing out the hypocrisy in having sex
RS> shops on every corner and then turning around and banning a video
RS> game.
LB> Isn't it strange how we automatically combine violence and sex? They
LB> are two different concerns.
Not if you do it right. :)
... NO CARRIER... A naval aviator's worst nightmare ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: FOF
|Date: 22 Jan 96 20:11:42
EID:be36 2036a160
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 345d3df6
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3103046d
On (22 Jan 96) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Ryan Shaw...
LB> Gwenny and Ryan were killing time yakking about FOF:
RS> ...anyhow, I think Steve was pointing out the hypocrisy in
RS> having sex shops on every corner and then turning around and
RS> banning a video game.
LB> Isn't it strange how we automatically combine violence and
LB> sex? They are two different concerns.
I think that we combine them because there is a fairly strong
feeling that neither one is appropriate in our living rooms with
the children present. But, if I have to choose between the two,
I'd rather a child of mine saw two people making love, than that
(s)he saw two people killing each other.
However, most so-called "love scenes" that I've seen in recent
years don't appear to have a great deal to do with lover, either.
More's the pity.
... Religion is certainty without proof; science is proof with out certainty.
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: lump
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Re: DEFINITIONS FOR Lumpy
|Date: 22 Jan 96 15:43:26
EID:a65c 20367d60
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc3
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
LB> make me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be. If I am to stand up, help
LB> me to stand bravely. If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly.
If
LB> I am to lie low, help me do it patiently. And if I am to do nothing,
LB> let me do it gallantly. Make these words more than words, and give me
LB> the Spirit of Jesus. Amen.
L> .....AMEN!....Very well said and thank you....
SR> Hooray! Now Lumpy can finally put his hands down and eat his bowl of
SR> Apple Jacks!
....Wow, try to have a conversation with someone decent and look
who just has to open their septic pool mouth...none other than one of
the "intelligent ones" (self proclaimed, ofcourse.)
HEY Dufus, Didn't your mother ever tell you not to speak until spoken
to?........BUTT OUT!
... Tagline fever is the primary symptom of the Blue Wave epidemic!!
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|From: Lump and Mark
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Re: If ya' liked it once, you'll love it twice.
|Date: 22 Jan 96 15:47:17
EID:238a 20367de0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc4
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Steve Quarrella <=-
ML> Steve Quarrella, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot,
ML> said to Marty Leipzig:
SQ> On 16 Jan 96 11:26am, Marty Leipzig wrote to All:
ML> THE TOP FIFTEEN RIDICULOUSLY LONG BIBLICAL NAMES
ML> 1) Mahershalalhashbaz:
SQ> Didn't the Three Stooges refer to this when they were performing
SQ> operations?
ML> I don't know. Let's ask them.
ML> Hey! Jim, Lump and Mark. How about it?
.....I don't know, but you should, you were there too remember?...
they were operating on a chimp, weren't they?...Or was that a
chump....Oh well, same thing!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
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|From: Lump
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 23 Jan 96 03:43:14
EID:6d48 20371d60
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc5
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
GR> Fuck you in the name of Santa.
....Is that why he comes DOWN your chiminey?.....
AG> Well, you're in the best Company. Count yourself blessed to be
AG> accounted worthy to bear the reproach of Jesus the Christ.
GR> And count yourself dead? Sorry.
....You've already been counted, George.
AG> subjects are therefore religious and worship (serve) him. Though many
AG> are athiest or agnostic.
GR> Sorry stupid, if I'm not going to bow to your pissant god what makes
GR> you think I'm going to bow down to Satan?
.......Sorry George, but, you've already done that.....Not even
Clarence can save you now...( Its a wonderful life)
GR> Let's see, if your god tells me to do something and I tell him to kiss
GR> my ass, I get to go to hell. Where do I go if Satan tells me to do
GR> something and I tell him to kiss my ass?
.....He just might do that with his spiked tongue ...You lose either
way George....GAME OVER....TILT.....YOU'RE DEAD...FOREVER!!!!!!
GR> ... Fundies give mutton a bad name, sheep march on Washington in
GR> protest.
...I agree, you're the sorriest sheep I've ever seen, but still like
a sheep you're dumb and WILL be led to the slaughter to be served as a
fatty knuckle!
AG> You would not know a Fundamental if one looked you in the eyes.
GR> Been one. I used to be like you.
....I doubt that, not even the Incredible hulk went thru a
transformation that bad......once a sinner, always a sinner.....in your
case only!
GR> And
AG> those that would march on Washington wouild be GOATS, not sheep. Read
AG> the Book!
GR> Mark 16:15-18. Read it and believe in it.
...You see George? No wonder you weren't a Christian, you only read one
Chapter and verse of the Bible...It's the only one you know, obviously!
GR> Don't just graze.
... You see George, you really did have a wonderful Life!
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|From: Lump
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Staal RULES!
|Date: 22 Jan 96 16:04:07
EID:f9b6 20368080
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc6
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Jim Staal <=-
DC> @MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89090E43
-> On 01-17-96 02:37, Jim Staal got back to Preston Simpson
DC> Which tongue-tied Staal is this?
JS> Hello!? Who am I b***hing about that are trying to do what the Bible
JS> says?
DC> I don't know. Who are you birthing about? I didn't even know
DC> your got yourself knocked up.... Is Lump the father?
....Nope, I'm the brother......Who's your father, SATAN?
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Lump
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Homosexual Christians
|Date: 23 Jan 96 03:04:32
EID:423a 20371880
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc7
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
DC> You have a rather strong need to believe in mythical constructs.
DC> Goes to your family upbringing, or, in your case, inbreeding.
.......AAhhh, Mister Ceppa, we're right back at square one where we first
began 4mths ago, just slamming one another in the back with a pitch
fork...I changed and tried being a nice guy, just addressing issues that
concerned our beliefs....then, soon after, you and your "intelligent
friends" could'nt handle the fact of there being two Staals in this echo
and decided to chastise both of us as one.....Oh ye of simple faith and
mind.....Tsk Tsk.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
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|From: Lump
|To: All
|Sub: Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 23 Jan 96 03:51:46
EID:e735 20371e60
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc8
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to George Rudzinski <=-
JS> @MSGID: 1:228/45.0 3103fb7b
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Jose Gomez <=-
GR> Sorry, no bitterness.
JS>
JS> Liar! Every post you write oozes with bitterness and bile...
GR> I ask that in the name of the Son
JG> of the Living God. Amen.
GR> Fuck Him and you, Amen.
GR> Shorter prayer, same outcome.
JS>
JS> Liar! Blasphemer!
You left out: Pagan
Atheist
Human sludge pit
Neanderthal
Snake Dung
Belly Crawler
Scum Sucker
.......... .......... ......... .......... .... ...
.......... .......... ......... .......... ..... ...
> ... > .. .. > ... > .. .. > ... .. ...
.......... .......... ... .......... ... .. ...
.......... .......... ... .......... ... .. ...
>> ... .. .. > ... > .. .. > ... .. ...
.......... .. .. ... .. .. ... .....
.......... .. .. ... .. .. ... ....
IS GEORGE RUDZINSKI!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Lump
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: Staal shows his colors
|Date: 23 Jan 96 03:41:06
EID:b77a 20371d20
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31045bc9
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Lump <=-
SQ> 3 Jan 96, dixit Lump ad Fredric Rice:
L> ....except the smell of furds burning in the morning,-Martin Sheen
SQ> Try again...it was Robert Duvall.
Nooo, it was Martin Sheen: "There's nothing like the smell
of _______ burning in the morning"< Apocolypse Now >
... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Bop-A-Pope, 5 tries for a quarter
|Date: 23 Jan 96 06:11:11
EID:535a 20373160
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 933b5a53
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 3103384d
On (21 Jan 96) Robert Jackson wrote to J.J. Hitt...
RJ> BTW, was it you who had the discussion with Marilyn about
RJ> the dictator in Africa who built the cathedral? I think I
RJ> might have a name for you both--Jean-Bedel Bokassa. In 1977
RJ> he declared himself the Emperor of the Central African Empire
RJ> and spent $20,000,000 on a Napoleonic coronation in a country
RJ> with an average per-capita annual income of $250.
And the name of the country is. . . .?
... Tap here >>>>>>>>>> лллл <<<<<<<<<< with HAMMER for new monitor!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Christian Miller's Christianity
|Date: 23 Jan 96 06:12:29
EID:cd00 20373180
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 729d2942
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 3103384f
On (21 Jan 96) Robert Jackson wrote to Steve Wallis...
JH> Of course, the more "interesting" areas are empty; but their
JH> very presence on a "Christian" BBS reflects directly on just
JH> what sort of character Mr. Miller actually is.
SW> Are you an ordained judge J.J.? Do you make a charge against
SW> Mr Miller? Or do you think you can mock Christ with your
SW> ridicule? It says in the Bible, "Thou shalt not put the Lord
SW> thy God to the test."
RJ> He's putting one member of your god's fanclub to the test.
This is a hoot. For some reason, they think that just because
their god tells THEM not to judge, they'll be free from OUR
judgment also. Do you want to tell him, or should be leave him in
the dark?
... Nehi Club Soda on Ice. Tonya's favorite.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Lump
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 23 Jan 96 08:54:18
EID:75bd 203746c0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087b
-=> Quoting Lump to George Rudzinski <=-
-
GR> Fuck you in the name of Santa.
Lu> ....Is that why he comes DOWN your chiminey?.....
AG> Well, you're in the best Company. Count yourself blessed to be
AG> accounted worthy to bear the reproach of Jesus the Christ.
GR> And count yourself dead? Sorry.
Lu> ....You've already been counted, George.
Lump,
By god, not by you.
AG> subjects are therefore religious and worship (serve) him. Though many
AG> are athiest or agnostic.
GR> Sorry stupid, if I'm not going to bow to your pissant god what makes
GR> you think I'm going to bow down to Satan?
Lu> .......Sorry George, but, you've already done that.....Not even
Lu> Clarence can save you now...( Its a wonderful life)
I don't want to be saved. I don't even believe in believe in being saved.
GR> Let's see, if your god tells me to do something and I tell him to kiss
GR> my ass, I get to go to hell. Where do I go if Satan tells me to do
GR> something and I tell him to kiss my ass?
Lu> .....He just might do that with his spiked tongue ...You lose
Lu> either way George....GAME OVER....TILT.....YOU'RE
Lu> DEAD...FOREVER!!!!!!
So are you when the time comes. You sorry bastards are short one person
that
lives after death.
GR> ... Fundies give mutton a bad name, sheep march on Washington in
GR> protest.
Lu> ...I agree, you're the sorriest sheep I've ever seen, but still
Lu> like a sheep you're dumb and WILL be led to the slaughter to be
Lu> served as a fatty knuckle!
Pfft! The only things that you can slaughter are the English language,
the
truth, and a Big Mac with cheese.
Did your old man croak yet or is god still letting him suffer?
AG> You would not know a Fundamental if one looked you in the eyes.
GR> Been one. I used to be like you.
Lu> ....I doubt that, not even the Incredible hulk went thru a
Lu> transformation that bad......once a sinner, always a sinner.....in
Lu> your case only!
Who made you god? Not your call, read your Bible.
GR> And
AG> those that would march on Washington wouild be GOATS, not sheep. Read
AG> the Book!
GR> Mark 16:15-18. Read it and believe in it.
Lu> ...You see George? No wonder you weren't a Christian, you only read
Lu> one Chapter and verse of the Bible...It's the only one you know,
Lu> obviously!
And it is one that you are terrified of. Your Jesus meets the road and
your
ass is the rubber.
I can see why you gutless pukes are so terrified of Jesus's words. You
don't
believe your own bull.
Hell you Staal boys aren't even good fundies. You know next to nothing
about
the Bible.
george
... Still, I had one skill primitive man did not, I could whine. TWY
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Lump
|Sub: Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:08:38
EID:74fe 20374900
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087c
-=> Quoting Lump to All <=-
GR> Shorter prayer, same outcome.
JS>
JS> Liar! Blasphemer!
Lu> You left out: Pagan
Sorry stupid, pagans have gods, I don't.
Lu> Atheist
Damn straight and damn proud of it.
Lu> Human sludge pit
Bearing false witness? Not nice fundie. I offered your brother a job,
in fact
I got him one when he claimed he needed one. I offered to do research work
for
your brother and gave him a free sample.
Lu> Neanderthal
Take some lesson in paleontology, your brother's GIF is distinctly Neaderthal
like.
Lu> Snake Dung
At least you had the courtesy to rate me above fundie shit.
Sorry if the word shit offends you but I've been unable to find any difference
between shit and dung. I haven't tried the taste test. Is that the
difference?
Lu> Belly Crawler
Sure am! Learned how to do that in the military. You know, that patriotic
stuff that you and your brother opted to chicken out on.
Has anyone in your family ever served in the military or do you come from
a
long line of loud mouth yellow bastards?
Lu> Scum Sucker
Damn straight. I can suck an oyster out of it's shell quicker than you
can
spell fundie.
george
... You handle religion by first cutting it off, and then killing it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Lump
|Sub: Re: Staal shows his colors
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:16:18
EID:cfda 20374a00
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087d
-=> Quoting Lump to Steve Quarrella <=-
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Lump <=-
SQ> 3 Jan 96, dixit Lump ad Fredric Rice:
L> ....except the smell of furds burning in the morning,-Martin Sheen
SQ> Try again...it was Robert Duvall.
Lu> Nooo, it was Martin Sheen: "There's nothing like the smell
Lu> of _______ burning in the morning"< Apocolypse Now >
Try again Moron.
It was Robert Duvall.
"There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning." Paraphrased,
not
an exact quote. But I'll wager it is a ton closer than yours.
george
... Those who vote Republican are either very rich or very stupid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: lump
|Sub: Re: DEFINITIONS FOR Lumpy
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:18:09
EID:f3a8 20374a40
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087e
-=> Quoting lump to Steve Rose <=-
SR> Hooray! Now Lumpy can finally put his hands down and eat his bowl of
SR> Apple Jacks!
lu> ....Wow, try to have a conversation with someone decent and look
lu> who just has to open their septic pool mouth...none other than one
lu> of the "intelligent ones" (self proclaimed, ofcourse.)
lu> HEY Dufus, Didn't your mother ever tell you not to speak until
lu> spoken to?........BUTT OUT!
Shit for brains, most of us are beyond listening to our mothers.
We sure aren't going to take orders from you.
george
... The Left is everyone who isn't pathologically insane. Noam Chomsky
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: LIAR!
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:31:32
EID:4a8f 20374be0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087f
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to George Rudzinski <=-
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to David Sparrow <=-
GR> Sorry dipshit, I'm not bitter and twisted.
JS> You are a liar! You are major bitter. You also are a bit of a
JS> poltroon.
I'm not the one with the imaginary friends to protect me.
JS> Didn't see you on Saturday.
Of course not. I don't let a mere child control my actions. Get your kicks
by telling Wilbur what to do.
Can't you drive by a church on
JS> Saturday morning, george?
Do it all the time stupid, I live next to a church. I drive by a church
most
every day of the week. Every spring I put up a new net for their outdoor
basketball hoop, at my expense.
I just don't do what you want me to.
Hmmm...wotta hangup. You must be from the
JS> west side...
Sure am, and proud of it. And I don't lock my doors. What are you afraid
of?
Some karate kid? Nobody in my neighborhood screws around with me. Why
is
that?
JS> ... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural
JS> superior
Pray harder.
george
... The Left is everyone who isn't pathologically insane. Noam Chomsky
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:34:22
EID:e714 20374c40
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050880
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to George Rudzinski <=-
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Jose Gomez <=-
GR> Sorry, no bitterness.
JS> Liar! Every post you write oozes with bitterness and bile...
Like the post where I got you a job?
GR> I ask that in the name of the Son
JG> of the Living God. Amen.
GR> Fuck Him and you, Amen.
GR> Shorter prayer, same outcome.
JS> Liar! Blasphemer!
Too bad hasn't said a word to me about being a blasphemer.
The outcome is the same. Your prayers don't do shit.
george
... You handle religion by first cutting it off, and then killing it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Jesus said "EAT ME!"
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:36:51
EID:eb78 20374c80
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050881
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to George Rudzinski <=-
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Jose Gomez <=-
GR> God tell you that? I may not scar him, but I scare the shit out of
GR> fundies like you when I refuse to follow your crap.
JS>
Nice retort from an ignorant fundie.
GR> I take my marching orders from God, and God has never talked to me.
JS> He will...I promise.
Too bad you aren't in a position to promise that your god will do anything.
Keep waving your arms, someday that might be considered flight.
george
... There is faith, True Faith, and Jesus didn't mean that. gr
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Staal
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:42:43
EID:39d0 20374d40
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050882
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> 900 square feet including garage IS a post box.
JS> My point purty nearly...
'Lil Fundie,
The first floor of my home is far bigger than that and I don't even have
a
garage.
Better pray harder or find a better god to pray to.
You must live in Grandville, where gerbils live in gerbil size cages.
george
... The fundie lowered its pointy head and charged the truck.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Don Ward
|Sub: Re: HI
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:46:52
EID:4167 20374dc0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050883
-=> Quoting Don Ward to Christian Miller <=-
DW> While listening in I heard
DW> Christian Miller speaking about Re: HICM>
A > So two wrongs make a right?
CM>No but three lefts do. Seriously... What God does is NOT wrong.
CM>How can a lower form of being (human) judge a great power? We just
CM>don't like what God does at times...
CM>Christian
DW>
DW> Christian, if you are a Christian, why do you chat with unclean
DW> spirits? Leave this den of fools to their on folly. And follow what
the
DW> good book says......
Don,
Why don't you? Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour.
Could it be that you can't show that you are a clean spirit?
george
... There is faith, True Faith, and Jesus didn't mean that. gr
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: dipstick sees UFO...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 09:52:37
EID:74e2 20374e80
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050884
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jim Staal <=-
JS> C'mon...and 'learnt'? Wouldn't that be 'learned'?
SQ>
SQ> I'm playing with the language, Jimbo. Certainly you took history of
SQ> the language when you were majoring in English? Why is it that I seem
SQ> to know more about our language than you do, yet you allegedly have
a
SQ> degree in it?
Steve,
He has no degrees, and very little college level education either formal
or
informal.
I have some good books here on Old English and Middle
SQ> English, and can provide you with ISBNs if you'd like to learn a few
SQ> things.
SQ> I find it unlikely that Staal majored in English,
He majored in painting cars and sucking up aeromatic hydrocarbons.
unless you can get
SQ> such a degree reading nothing higher than the vocabulary level of The
SQ> Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew. I would expect these words to be found in
at
SQ> least one of the novels that was "required reading" for that degree.
JS> Didn't read and of those steenking novels.
SQ>
SQ> Then, pray tell, what was your curriculum for obtaining your degree?
He has no degree. He hasn't even bothered to educate himself.
george
... You handle religion by first cutting it off, and then killing it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: alleged 'christians'...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:07:17
EID:6980 203750e0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050885
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Jim Staal <=-
JS> What...the 'sucking up' part?
LB> No, Jim -- the "sucking up" part is so ludicrous that it does nothing
LB> but bring a smile to my face. I've made friends here, to be sure.
And
LB> I don't make my friends pass a theology exam in order to qualify --
JS>
JS> I guess it doesn't say 'Making Friends Echo' on the roster. I says
JS> 'Religion Debate Echo'. I have many friends who do not believe.
Name two.
I
JS> have friends who do not believe as I do. Neither of the above condemn
JS> me for what I believe. I do not condemn them for what they do or do
JS> not believe.
You just condemn those that aren't your friends, like me.
They accept and respect me as a reasonably intelligent
JS> individual possessing above average eloquence and grasp of the
JS> language.
Don't blame us because your friends aren't honest with you.
I've got cats smarter than you.
Nothing but the total opposite has happened to me here
JS> since the first day I walked into this place in 1993 and replied (with
JS> the same respect I would give any stranger face to face)
Well actually I warned you that it would. You aren't reasonably intelligent,
and very ignorant. I told you that you would get hammered.
But being stuturally graced, you thought that would mean something.
to some post
JS> from Fred Rice about Robert Schuler wanting to direct his ministry to
JS> the children of unbelievers. (Or course Rice implied that the brother
JS> Schuler wanted the children for some perverse sex act or something of
JS> the like).
Well you have stated that as a Christian you have a right to
take my children from me.
In light of the above, you wonder why I reply in the
JS> manner I do three years later? I don't think so.
JS>
JS> BTW, this place is _about_ theology exams. If your'e not
JS> giving/receiving one, then you are doing something wrong. (IMHO)
I'm giving two exams.
1) Mark 16:15-18 I'll pour.
2) Cough up the chemical formula for the pills on my montitor.
If you can't take or pass either exam, what are you doing here?
george
... You handle religion by first cutting it off, and then killing it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Christians...together
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:11:38
EID:7ef5 20375160
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050886
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Dick Holm <=-
-=> Quoting Dick Holm to Jim Staal <=-
DH> I concur wholeheartedly with Lynda. I have yet to see a Christian
DH> here who supports Biblical theology in the way you describe it. Those
DH> who support your version of theology show few signs of being
DH> Christian,
JS> Hmmm...interesting contradiction here, Dick. First you say there are
JS> none here who support my theology and then you say those who do
JS> aren't Christian. Can't have it both ways, dude. So, what is it are
JS> there those here who support me or not?
I support your theology.
Unfortunately you don't, aka, Mark 16:15-18.
You don't believe in the Bible you claim to.
george
... Believing is the easy part of salvation. The hard part is dying.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Fun in Church...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:17:40
EID:2510 20375220
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050887
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Ryan Shaw <=-
RS> It's simple. What you have is a man [or a woman] standing in front
of
RS> people telling them what to believe.
JS>
JS> That is where we disagree, Ryan. The preacher is not telling us what
JS> to believe. We believe what is in the Bible.
Feel free to believe any time you want you liar. Mark 16:15-18.
Christ's test of a true believer, not mine.
Or do you only graze? Or decide what you want god to say?
george
... There is faith, True Faith, and Jesus didn't mean that. gr
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Fundamentalists r us
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:46:22
EID:6f55 203755c0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050888
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Kevin D. Mckenzie <=-
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Jim Staal <=-
JS>
KDM> This is insane.
JS>
JS> Hmmm...can you evidence this alleged 'insanity'?
JS>
KDM> Do you also accept the fact that the sun hasn't crashed into the
KDM> Earth as evidence of God?
JS>
JS> For me it evidences God's faithfulness, yes...
Mark 16:15-18. Why are you afraid of god's faithfulness?
although I understand
JS> the scientific principles involved.
Yeah! Right.
However, as I believe God made
JS> those principles in the first place, if He so desired, He could in a
JS> heart beat rescind them as well.
Why are afraid that he won't rescind them when it comes to Mark 16:15-18?
Why
can't you show that he CAN rescind them when it comes to the pills on my
monitor?
Why do you make claims about your god that your god consistently can't
cash?
Sounds more like you are trying to sell your beliefs, short one god.
george
... There is faith, True Faith, and Jesus didn't mean that. gr
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Staal polishes his shoes
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:48:48
EID:5c91 20375600
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 31050889
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Steve Quarrella <=-
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jim Staal <=-
SQ> 19 Jan 96, dixit Jim Staal ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ> The LAN project approaches completion, which will mean "Operation Jim
SQ> and Jesse" will begin.
JS> Why..._WHY_ do you have to say our names in the same breath?
SQ> Why is that a problem? Is there some reason why you don't fellowship
SQ> your "brother in Christ?"
JS>
JS> I know nothing of this 'fellowship' you speak of. To fellowship _with_
JS> someone, yes, but as you speak of it, no...and the 'christianity'
JS> Jesse speaks of, I do not necessarily share. He may be a fine man, but
JS> we read an all too different Bible, apparently...
No two of you christians can show an ability to read, let alone read
the same bible, whatever the hell that is.
george
... Believing is the easy part of salvation. The hard part is dying.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Staal's big heart
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:57:48
EID:6d2d 20375720
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105088a
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Jim Staal <=-
JS> So some moron plagiarizes the Bible...so what? Many alleged 'wise' men
JS> and philosophers have done so and claimed a following. Dig deal.
DC> That "moron" is probably the most famous and learned scholar of
DC> the Hebrew bible, you stupid twerp.
JS>
JS> So? That does not prove as you have stated that Jesus got His ideas
JS> from him. It is obvious from your own statement that your man (jew
JS> boy whoever)
Jew boy?
Shit for brains, Jesus was a Jew boy.
got _his_ ideas from the Bible. That is also where Jesus
JS> quoted His from as well. Big Deal. Meaningless...
You don't have one word from Jesus. The truth sucks doesn't it fundie?
DC> His words were recorded in
DC> the Babylonia Talmud, Shabbat, before your bible was written. If
DC> it wasn't for some of his writings, your Jesus would not have
DC> had anything to say.
JS>
JS> I don't care if they were recorded in rocks on the moon, Jesus (God
JS> and very God) said 'em first. Whether in the 'hebrew bible' or in the
JS> NT.
Jesus didn't say anything in the NT. Not book of Jesus in any NT that I've
seen. I have read the gospel of the Saviour, but you religious nuts don't
believe that it is from Jesus.
DC> It is he that taught Gamaliel, who is needed in your "NT" to
DC> legitimize your religion.
JS>
JS> Evidence?
DC> Another work that would interest you is of another Jewish writer,
DC> RabbiAkiba, in 89 BCE, where it is recorded that, 'Rabbi Akiba said,
DC> "Though shalt love thy neighbor as yourself" is the greatest
DC> principle of the Law.'
JS>
JS> Meaningless...
Loving your neighbor as yourself is meaningless? You really are a christian.
Please keep posting you make my job of snuffing out your disgusting religion
easy.
DC> There you have it, you consumate liar. It is your bible that has
DC> done the plagiarizing. Must make you so proud to be following the
DC> word of thieves, Jimbo.
JS>
JS> And you, Danno, have continued to excel at putting the cart before
JS> the horsie...
And you are short one horsie, one god, and one resurected Jesus.
george
... You handle religion by first cutting it off, and then killing it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Abortion
|Date: 23 Jan 96 11:05:56
EID:2203 203758a0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105088b
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Jim Staal <=-
DC> Is that anything like you telling Gwenny that she was at fault
DC> because her husband beat her?
JS> Never said that, Danno, never said that. The FAQ backs me on that one.
DC> Just how are you able to look at yourself in the mirror?
JS> Look at the quote, Dan:
JS> "Ahhhh, I recognize this. This is the way my ex would talk
JS> before he beat me for being "too smart"." - Gwen Todd
JS> "Sounds like he was the smart one. Wha'd you follow that act
JS> with? I don't know. I wasn't there. There ain't a story that
JS> donesn't hve two sides to it. Either way, the fact that he is her
JS> ex, makes him the smart one..." - Jim Staal
So Promise keepers either get to beat their wives into submission or do
the
smart thing and divorce them?
Well that puts them in good company. Newt, Rush and Gramm.
DC> It's such a pity that no one gives a flying fuck how high the shit
DC> that you are composed of is piled, bigot.
JS> ... get real, get a crate and get reconciled to me, your statural
JS> superior !
Ten feet of shit is my statural superior. Your point?
george
... An obvious result of forced potty training. GK
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: DEFINITIONS FOR JIM
|Date: 23 Jan 96 11:07:24
EID:b4a4 203758e0
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105088c
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Judith Bandsma <=-
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Al Schroeder <=-
JB> I'm beginning to think the 'S' in Lon S. Mabon stand
JB> for Staal. And has all along.
JS> For one who has me twitted, you getting smarter all along...
And for one who claims to be a man of god, why are we finding out that you
are
such a liar?
george
... You, your god, and the horse you rode in on.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: Lump
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: DEFINITIONS FOR Lumpy
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:23:27
EID:5e99 20379ae0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31053c40
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
lu> HEY Dufus, Didn't your mother ever tell you not to speak until
lu> spoken to?........BUTT OUT!
GR> Shit for brains, most of us are beyond listening to our mothers.
...You had a mother? Isn't Satan non genderless, you are his spawn
aren't you?
GR> We sure aren't going to take orders from you.
.....spoken like a typical westside bonehead...went to school with
your kind from over there...they were worthless deadbeats too...they
tried to make it in a civilized Xian school but couldn't handle the
education...I guess we didn't chant enough!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Lump
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:37:25
EID:41df 20379ca0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31053c41
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Lump <=-
GR> @MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087c
-=> Quoting Lump to All <=-
GR> Shorter prayer, same outcome.
JS>
JS> Liar! Blasphemer!
Lu> You left out: Pagan
GR> Sorry stupid, pagans have gods, I don't.
....You have a god, it's that stuff you always want to drink and the
big red guy.
Lu> Atheist
GR> Damn straight and damn proud of it.
...Ooooo your intelligence is showing now....
Lu> Human sludge pit
GR> Bearing false witness? Not nice fundie. I offered your brother a
GR> job, in fact I got him one when he claimed he needed one. I offered
to
GR> do research work for your brother and gave him a free sample.
....False witness?....Nah, the only job you could offer my brother
would be to be an advocate....and he wouldn't want that.
Lu> Neanderthal
GR> Take some lesson in paleontology, your brother's GIF is distinctly
GR> Neaderthal like.
...I don't think so Tim...you're the one who still has his knuckles
draggin on the ground...bro Jim's are definately off the ground by
far.
Lu> Snake Dung
GR> At least you had the courtesy to rate me above fundie shit.
...not too hard to do seeing that fundy dung comes from higher up
off the ground....
GR> Sorry if the word shit offends you but I've been unable to find any
GR> difference between shit and dung. I haven't tried the taste test.
Is
GR> that the difference?
...I wouldn't know but ask Ferdie, he should know....
Lu> Belly Crawler
GR> Sure am! Learned how to do that in the military. You know, that
GR> patriotic stuff that you and your brother opted to chicken out on.
...Sorry, nobody chickened out of anything of the sort in my family
noone was quite that old....
GR> Has anyone in your family ever served in the military or do you come
GR> from a long line of loud mouth yellow bastards?
...Yep, my pappy served in WW2 in the navy seen lots of action
too...funny how he missed you...he said he got most of the scumbags
out there...
Lu> Scum Sucker
GR> Damn straight. I can suck an oyster out of it's shell quicker than
GR> you can spell fundie.
...Now _there's_ something to be proud of, I'll bet that's not the
only thing you can suck something out of....
GR> george
"Mary, Mary..(.or is that Doreen?) Darn it Clarence you're driving
me batty!"
... "Ya see George, you really did have a wonderful life."
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Lump
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 23 Jan 96 19:49:07
EID:6d48 20379e20
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31053c42
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Lump <=-
GR> @MSGID: 1:228/500.0 3105087b
-=> Quoting Lump to George Rudzinski <=-
GR> -
GR> Fuck you in the name of Santa.
Lu> ....Is that why he comes DOWN your chiminey?.....
GR>
AG> Well, you're in the best Company. Count yourself blessed to be
AG> accounted worthy to bear the reproach of Jesus the Christ.
GR> And count yourself dead? Sorry.
Lu> ....You've already been counted, George.
GR> Lump,
GR> By god, not by you.
...You got that right, George
AG> subjects are therefore religious and worship (serve) him. Though many
AG> are athiest or agnostic.
GR> Sorry stupid, if I'm not going to bow to your pissant god what makes
GR> you think I'm going to bow down to Satan?
Lu> .......Sorry George, but, you've already done that.....Not even
Lu> Clarence can save you now...( Its a wonderful life)
GR> I don't want to be saved. I don't even believe in believe in being
GR> saved.
...Oooo you must have been in the service, where else would one get
such courage, besides the wizard......
GR> Let's see, if your god tells me to do something and I tell him to kiss
GR> my ass, I get to go to hell. Where do I go if Satan tells me to do
GR> something and I tell him to kiss my ass?
Lu> .....He just might do that with his spiked tongue ...You lose
Lu> either way George....GAME OVER....TILT.....YOU'RE
Lu> DEAD...FOREVER!!!!!!
GR> So are you when the time comes. You sorry bastards are short one
GR> person that lives after death.
...when the time comes George, I'll be watching and praying for your
soul.....from Heaven!
GR> ... Fundies give mutton a bad name, sheep march on Washington in
GR> protest.
Lu> ...I agree, you're the sorriest sheep I've ever seen, but still
Lu> like a sheep you're dumb and WILL be led to the slaughter to be
Lu> served as a fatty knuckle!
GR> Pfft! The only things that you can slaughter are the English
GR> language, the truth, and a Big Mac with cheese.
...Believe me I won't be the one to slaughter you, you're not
worth the edge on my blade...
GR> Did your old man croak yet or is god still letting him suffer?
...Nope, he didn't, but God is humbling him quite far and the only
thing that keeps him going is the fact that he can still pray and
find comfort in the Bilbe and his Faith in God to bring him thru his
termoils
AG> You would not know a Fundamental if one looked you in the eyes.
GR> Been one. I used to be like you.
Lu> ....I doubt that, not even the Incredible hulk went thru a
Lu> transformation that bad......once a sinner, always a sinner.....in
Lu> your case only!
GR> Who made you god? Not your call, read your Bible.
.....Watta ya mean? I'm not God, how can I be according to you,I'm
just merely telling them as I see them...plus you admit to it
yourself.....
GR> And
AG> those that would march on Washington wouild be GOATS, not sheep. Read
AG> the Book!
GR> Mark 16:15-18. Read it and believe in it.
Lu> ...You see George? No wonder you weren't a Christian, you only read
Lu> one Chapter and verse of the Bible...It's the only one you know,
Lu> obviously!
GR> And it is one that you are terrified of. Your Jesus meets the road
GR> and your ass is the rubber.
....Huh?
GR> I can see why you gutless pukes are so terrified of Jesus's words.
GR> You don't believe your own bull.
...not terrified at all in fact I enjoy hearing them all the time...
GR> Hell you Staal boys aren't even good fundies. You know next to
GR> nothing about the Bible.
....well, if next to nothing is the amount you know then I must be
a Professor in comparision....
... "Ya see George, you really did have a wonderful life!"
* Origin: WareHouse BBS - Wyoming MI - (616)538-5410 (1:228/45)
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|From: Steve Stuart Nacarlo
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: God
|Date: 23 Jan 96 11:50:00
EID:ff29 20375e40
PID: RoboBOARD/FX 1.04RWZ-370-CO7
MSGID: a45a91bd
REPLY: 1:358/1 9ecca493
TID: GE 1.1+
That was cool!
When I said HE GAVE US HIS ONLY SON and you said "Cause nobody
wanted him".
I wanted to quote your mail but lost it.
But that was cool. I wonder if anybody wanted you!
Seeya!
Steve
--- SmartLink
* Origin: SMARTLINK INTERNATIONAL NETWORK TECHNOLOGY ()
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: LES WILCOX
|Sub: hey, i'm new
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:22
EID:ff28 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689be
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, LES WILCOX mumbled "hey, i'm new"
JA>I interpet that as God saying its ok to smoke weed...
JA>what y'all think of that...
LW> I think you need to quit calling yourself a christian. Perhaps
LW> something like "Convenience store Clerk" would be closer to what you
LW> represent?
I think you need to stop thinking that you're God.
... Famous last words: "I think the dragon's asleep."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Scot Bear
|Sub: Re: Christianity...today.
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:23
EID:6c89 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689bf
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Scot Bear mumbled "Re: Christianity...today."
> My hat's off to you, Staal. I'd never expected to meet such
> a monster
> as you.
SB> He's not much of a monster, IMNSHO...
I wonder. It was people not to different from him who helped Hitler stay
in power.
SB> He's just a stubborn man who refuses to say: "uncle"...
There's a difference between refusing to say uncle and ignoring
reality so blatantly.
SB> For his sake, I say that we just ignore him until he realizes that
SB> he's WAY over his head and should let it die down before he attempts
SB> to re-establish communication.
I'm not sure that this would happen, though I respect your opinion.
... He who laughs at a Klingon, never laughs again.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Fundamentalism
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:23
EID:c1fc 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Steve Quarrella mumbled "Fundamentalism"
SQ> Yet the guy who tells us that we need his drug cannot himself take his
SQ> own medicine.
SQ> What was it he called me? A "viper?"
I hadn't noticed.
PS> I find it amusing that many claim this standard and then violate
PS> it.
SQ> But they're FORGIVEN, Preston! They're forgiven! The voice they hear
So?
SQ> in their heads forgives them. We, the people against whom they've
SQ> "trespassed," are left to deal with the situation that the believer
has
"...Forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST
US." Funny how many forget that last bit.
... "I dunno, I'm making this up as I go." -I. Jones
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Re: Jeezoids
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:23
EID:e13e 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c1
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jose Gomez mumbled "Re: Jeezoids"
JG> I WILL pray for you, George. And, He WILL come knocking on your door.
JG> And, if you pills do in fact even exist, they'll go to waste. My God
JG> is a personal God of love and POWER. In Jesus' name, I pray that God
JG> reveal to you will presence, and that He would heal you of the inner
JG> pain that you feel right now.
JG> In Jesus' name, I ask God to help you with that bitterness that
JG> you've had in your heart for some time now. My the power of God
JG> overwhelm and confort you, my friend. I ask that in the name of the
Son
JG> of the Living God. Amen.
Ahem. Since you seem to be on the healing-by-FIDONet kick, allow me to
get my two bits in.
I suffer from a chronic neurological disorder. Ask your god what it is,
what the regular treatment for it is, and tell him to improve the
circumstances such that I no longer suffer from its bad effects.
... Am I going MAD...or did the word THINK escape your lips??
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: IMPORTANT MESSAGE!!!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:23
EID:e06d 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jose Gomez mumbled "IMPORTANT MESSAGE!!!"
JG> Although most of you do not believe in God, and you hate "fundie" and
JG> "jeezoid" claims of talking with God, I want to let you know that God
JG> is VERY real, and He loves you all. One day, face to face, you will
I doubt this. I was a Christian once, until I realized that God had
never once been there for me, never once answered or even seemed to
be listening my prayers, never seemed to care.
JG> experience that reality. Until then, continue to study and research
JG> the FACTS on the world. You will find the truth in the FACTS. You are
And the truth will set us free, yes, yes. But the facts that I have
seen and the truth that I have derived from them do not lead me to believe
as you do.
... AD&D Famous last words: "Dammit, this thing won't die!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: hey, i'm new
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:23
EID:63dd 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c3
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Anthony Grigor-Scott mumbled "hey, i'm new"
JA> I interpet that as God saying its ok to smoke weed...
JA> what y'all think of that...
AG> It demonstrates that you are definately not a Christian and definately
AG> a fool.
Why?
... "Will do Satan's work for food." - David Rice
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: White-lighter religions
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:24
EID:482c 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c4
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Kevin D. Mckenzie mumbled "White-lighter religions"
CH>If a motherboard is toasted by an address, IRQ or DMA conflict, it
CH>was a very badly designed motherboard. Any electronics-minded person
CH>would know that.
KDM> Yeah, that would explain the Packard Bell.
I understand completely, having only just switched from a Packard Bell
to something hopefully more reliable.
... I am not a trained killer. I LEAD trained killers.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: yer momma sews socks
|Date: 24 Jan 96 14:34:24
EID:26be 20387440
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 310689c5
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Kevin D. Mckenzie mumbled "Re: yer momma sews
socks"
A>Well, for one, I'm using it at the moment. Ever had anyone hand you a
A>486DX2-66 for nothing? I have.
KDM> Yippty shit.
I had someone hand me a 120 MHz Pentium with 16 meg for continued
excellence in academic performance and largely because I needed it. Not
as fancy as a 486DX2, maybe, but it'll do what I want it to do.
A>Yeah, it should. What would you like to see? My great luck in
A>everything I do, my sudden luck at love, or all the cash and other
A>shit I get all the time?
KDM> Yeah. I want you to use your luck to name every CD I own.
He's in love. That explains the euphoria. "...and other shit." Do
people just hand him boxes of carefully-packed manure, or does he
step in it?
... ==/==/==/==Police tagline==/==/==Do not cross==/==/==/==
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: BUNK!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 07:30:00
EID:94b2 20383bc0
-=> Quoting Robert Berndt to Jim Staal <=-
^^^^^^^^^
RB> Interesting tag line. Are you a satanist? I recognize it from the
RB> satanic bible.
This is the best one liner (I don't care if it IS 3 sentences) I've seen
in a long time.
... HolySmoke: Where fundys take themselves seriously, & no one else does.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Farewell To Holysmoke
|Date: 23 Jan 96 00:03:41
EID:5c06 20370060
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3105413d
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 089483e7
-=> Quoting Sean McCullough to All <=-
SM> Glen Zilly gave us the following farewell of late:
> Due to the removal of this forum from my current board becuase
> of its use of profanity and other unnaceptable language I will no
> longer be posting on the Holysmoke forum. I came to this forum hoping
> to shed some truth as to the misconceptions about Christianity. The
> following passage of Matthew sums up my reason for posting.
SM> [scripture spouted like a busted shitpipe mercifully deleted]
SM> CHEESE FOR SALE!! :-)
Hey, Sean...you have been at this longer than I have. What WOULD be
the best cheese to go with that whine? (I haven't figured out if
that would be a red, white, or blush whine yet)
Sue
... Beware of Quantum ducks (Quark!Quark!Quark!)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: RE: HI
|Date: 23 Jan 96 01:04:33
EID:d0d0 20370880
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
AS> AS> I have tried asking questions before on pods and got no responses.
It
AS> AS> would be nice to be answered. I personally want to know more
abou
AS> AS> alternative religions and belief systems. I hate foot in mouth
AS> AS> syndrom and would like to hear about the things I am supposed to
AS> AS> disagree with.
AS>
AS> This is a good echo for such. I want to say that I've enjoyed your
posts,
AS> but we HAVE to do something about your initials...I was here FIRST.
AS> Seriously, though, it IS weird to see someone else quoted as "AS>"
besides
AS> yours truly.
Hey! That looks pretty cool. Heh, now let's go confuse some people. Anyone
stupid enough to post to us without reading the whole message will put their
foot in their mouth. Sigh. Oh yeah, that is usually ME.
I am NOT asking my sysop to fix the initial thing. YOU approach him. He
is
my brother and is twisted. As I posted to someone else here, I asked
him
to change the origin line and he did, now in all the local bases it
reads....
He's YOUR God, YOU burn in hell.
heh...I give up.
--- Don't look back!
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Re: HI
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:19:54
EID:c4b5 20380a60
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
MB> AS> In my opinion, evil is a choice not a thing to be invented.
MB>
MB> Then how come Jehovah, in the first person, yet, bragged about
MB> having created it (in Isaiah)?
I dunno...can you give me a passage so I can go look it up?
... Like a candle, to give light, you must endure burning.
--- Don't look back!
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: HEY, I'M NEW
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:28:14
EID:8b4d 20380b80
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
JB> AS> so you are planning to eat it? I had heard it was done but
never
JB> AS> seen it.
JB>
JB> Try the Alice B. Toklas Cookbook. Now...for the $64,000 question. WHO
was
JB> Alice B. Toklas?
do I wanna know?
I am not in the habit of doing marajuana but if
the topic ever comes up in trivia, now i know.
... What if we lived like we tell others they ought?
--- Don't look back!
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: HI
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:31:27
EID:e2d1 20380be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
JB> AS> darn periods for a year now. They are so *convenient*.
JB>
JB> Maybe so. But here you get more points for correct grammar and sentence
JB> structure. And you can't get good arguments across if no one will read
JB> them.
JB>
I should know better anyway. I DO write. I just tend to like the
spell-check program better. And I don't HAVE one here. >
JB> JB> ... Some folks look for answers...others look for fights...
JB>
JB> AS> Coo, sounds like me when I am hungry for a sneaker sandwitch.
G'wan
JB> AS> put em up!
JB>
JB> Ah well, guess you can't have everything. NOT a Deadhead. What a shame.
Thank you, I think.
... Always forgive your enemies, they HATE that.
--- Don't look back!
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: Christian Miller's Christianity
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:36:42
EID:05bb 20380c80
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
DW> AS> and you are telling me because???
DW> AS> I am not his keeper. If he belonged to my church I would have some
DW> AS> responsibility here, but unless you are planning on paying for
my
DW> AS> plane ticket I don't see much I can do here.
DW>
DW> Weren't you the one recently patting Christian on the back for being
such a
DW> good little Xtian? Don't you think you should at least retract that
kind o
DW> thing, now that you know what he's really like?
I believe I said somthing along the lines of "you seem to handle yourself
well". I am not sure as I don't us an offline program. Be that as it may,
I am NOT someone else's keeper. HIS or YOURS. I am still working on my
own
life, it surely is not up to me to judge someone elses. Besides, I do
not
know him, and have no clue as to "what he is really like." Only the word
of
someone who seems out to get him and anyone who says hello to him. I still
don't see why you are even adressing this to me. I have not, nor has God,
appointed YOU my keeper.
... Forgiveness is giving up my right to hate you for hurting me.
--- Don't look back!
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Robert Berndt
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Judgement
|Date: 22 Jan 96 20:15:00
EID:0251 2036a1e0
MSGID: 1:280/26 3717661a
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
GTP> ... 1st Law of Thermodynamics: Go to class!!
Interesting tag line - so what's your point?
---
This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
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|From: Robert Berndt
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: COINCIDENCE SCREW UP
|Date: 22 Jan 96 20:24:00
EID:862f 2036a300
MSGID: 1:280/26 3717662b
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
GTP> Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell.
And America was Christian when it rose.
---
This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
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|From: Bill Burns
|To: All
|Sub: Atheistgate 1
|Date: 22 Jan 96 15:58:00
EID:b793 20367f40
MSGID: 1:280/26 3717663c
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
A>Early Christians differed in their views of the resurrection. As evid
A>by the original, short, version of Mark, the
A>idea of a "spiritual resurrection" as opposed to a bodily one goes ba
The above assumption infers that the gospel accounts record two different
kinds of resurrections, one spiritual, one physical. It is not clear,
as the statement above asserts that they do any such thing.
A>Why not see simply, that these emotionally wrought disciples recently
A>deprived of their leader, saw Jesus
A>everywhere, even in an ordinary stranger and a gardener?
A>
A>This same Mary Magdalene is said to have been possessed of "seven dev
A>and later exorcised; in modern terms,
A>she would considered to be either schizophrenic or psychic. In some o
A>versions, she is said to be the first to see
A>Jesus. According to Elaine Pagels, So if some of the New Testament st
A>insist on a literal view of resurrection,
A>others lend themselves to different interpretations. One could sugges
A>certain people, in moments of great
A>emotional stress, suddenly felt that they experienced Jesus' presence
A>Paul's experience can be read this way.(20)
Let's examine why not see things Elaine's way...
1)Ms. Pagels is a distinguished professor of Religion at Princeton, specializing
in the Nag Hamadi texts and in Gnosticism. She has authored several books,
the most recent of which is entitled "The Origin of Satan". She previously
authored a tome called "Gnostic Gospels" (1979).
In a recent review of her most recent work ("Getting Satan Behind Us" by
Jeffrey Burton Russell, First Things, Nov/1995), the author of the review
takes Ms. Pagels to task for her interpretation of several events and concepts
presented in the gospel accounts:
"Since Pagels argues that Christianity was a demonizing force from the
very outset, she examines the Gospels in detail in Chapters one, three,
and four. Her argument is that the dualism between good and evil, which
produces demonization, is first present in Mark and then gradually intensifies
through Matthew and Luke to John. The development that she assumes from
Mark to John takes us, she claims, farther and farther away from 'history,'by
which she seems to mean 'what really happened,'a subject she has already
excused herself from attempting to determine..."
"Citing Luke 22:3, Pagels states that 'Luke then says what Mark and Matthew
imply--that the devil returned in person in the form of Judas Iscariot
to destroy Jesus.' The idea that people, however evil, are not humans
but incarnations of Satan (just as Christ is the incarnation of God) is
Pagels' own. What Luke really says is, 'Then Satan entered into Judas:
eiselthen de Satanas eis 'Ioudan,' quite different from returning in the
form of Judas. From Pagels' reading, one might conclude that Luke believed
that evil persons are not human at all, that they have no free will. This
would certainly be an obstacle to understanding evil, but there is no evidence
that Luke or any other Christian writer intended this..."
"Pagels' peculiar understanding of incarnation appears in other contexts,
too. Christians she says, saw the Passion of Christ not as a 'final defeat
[of Satan] but only a preliminary skirmish in a vast cosmic conflict.'
This would render the Incarnation, the central point of Christianity, virtually
meaningless, as she seems later to understand when she says that Christians
believe that 'Christ has already won the decisive victory.'"
A>Was it a bodily appearance? Paul did not distinguish his own hallucin
A>vision from those of the twelve or the
A>other claimants.
A>
A>B
2)All one has to do to de bunk this statement is to read the fifteenth
chapter of 1 Corinthians to see that the word 'hallucinogenic' is not what
is described.
What is described is the hinge point of the faith...which is described
in terms that connote a real space-time event, not some spiritualized non-event.
Context is essential. Paul's readers would not likely sat around debating
what he was saying, nor did he leave the question of the importance of
the resurrection untouched in the passage(v.19).
A> In such books as the Gospel of Philip,
A>the Gospel of Thomas and other
A>Christian books as ancient as any in the canon, a literal belief in t
A>bodily resurrection is ridiculed as a "faith of
A>fools." "Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error
A>Instead they must "receive the resurrection while
A>they live."23
A>Early Christians differed in their views of the resurrection. As evid
A>by the original, short, version of Mark, the
From the review of Pagels' new book:
"Pagels perceives Paul as the relativist precursor of the Valentinian
(Continued next message...)
Rev Willie
* CMPQwk 1.42 12312 Come and get it.
*The gene pool has no lifeguard
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Luke Clark
|Sub: Re: Yer momma sews socks
|Date: 24 Jan 96 07:56:05
EID:1840 20383f00
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 3105e616
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3101c2dc
D>>>> Got any evidence for these "devils" you speak of?
A>>> But of course, I would not call upon them if I did not see proof that
A>>> they existed.
HP>> Then _where is it_, little fellow? Can we see it, or is it, like the
HP>> evidence all fundies (meta, reasonable, radical, etc.) claim,
HP>> inaccessible "at the moment" (whenever the moment may be)?
LC> Actually it isn't possible.They are psychological constructs,
LC> that with enough conditioning can be made to appear at will.
How do you make a "psychological construct" "appear at will?" Sounds
like meaningless psychobabble, Luke. Do you mean "he's deluded and
seeing things that aren't there?" :-)
--- Tear it up
* Origin: xtian with closed mind often have open mouth (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Re: Flood follies -- a Holysmoke tradition
|Date: 24 Jan 96 08:05:56
EID:67d8 203840a0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 3105e618
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 971709ab
MB> Christian has dug himself a mighty deep hole.
And still lacks the water to fill it. :-)
--- Tear it down
* Origin: Place apolitical/antireligious bullshit here... (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Re: HEAVENLY DAZED
|Date: 24 Jan 96 08:07:27
EID:dd28 203840e0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 3105e619
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 6e521017
JG> I will not test the Lord, my God!!
Nor will you test Mickey Mouse.
--- Tear it open
* Origin: "Go to hell." "Been there." (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Re: COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 24 Jan 96 08:09:24
EID:b282 20384120
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 3105e61a
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 a622b1d2
LB>> George -- you just described perfectly the Christian concept of why
LB>> God lets us make harmful mistakes (THE question flying around here
LB>> recently). Do you feel you are a bad or neglectful parent when you
LB>> let your child fail? Do you get off on watching him suffer, or does
LB>> it bother you as much as it bothers him?
MB> That doesn't get to the heart of the issue. The REAL question is:
MB> Why would a loving god make a world in which pain was not only an
MB> integral part of everyday life, but also one in which pain was
MB> NECESSARY?
And what sort of parent would allow one child to kill another and not
feel like "a bad or neglectful parent?" That analogy doesn't extend
well.
--- Tear a new one
* Origin: Debunk xtianity? Just say Noah. (1:380/16)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: MCDOWELL
|Date: 23 Jan 96 11:49:12
EID:0bdd 20375e20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60fefbc3
AS> Total change of subject: my wife has decided to drop her
AS> AOL account, and is just going to send e-mail to her group
AS> from her internet connection. So, we will no longer be
AS> supporting AOL.
What were her reasons?
Did it have anything to do with FOF and Dobson?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 23 Jan 96 12:14:38
EID:4897 203761c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 60ff3461
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 89074BAC
Only when I read your posts.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Parker lunacy
|Date: 23 Jan 96 18:15:05
EID:a5b4 203791e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6102962e
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 0883b7a7
me> Really... I've been seeing those robo-posts for something
me> like two years now and I had no idea he(?) was an Xian.
FR> After two years of right-wing lunacy mouthing the extremist
FR> rhetoric, it was a given. Linda Thompson and her cult are
FR> also right-wing Christanic extremists.
Nah, Thompson is a UFO-crystal-weenie. She's big on the folks
who "channel" messages from some space muffin that goes by
the name of Cosmic Awareness.
I suppose she might call herself a Christian, but I doubt
that most groups would have anything to do with her.
Theologically, she's WAY OUT there with Elizabeth Claire Prophet.
Jesus is only a bit player in a pantheon of hundreds.
FR> They try very hard to downplay the fact that their religion is
FR> the cause for their beliefs.
I'm not sure which is cause and which is effect. She'd be a hate
filled nutball from any background or tradition.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Satanic Curse Update
|Date: 23 Jan 96 18:25:01
EID:d952 20379320
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61029cf2
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 0883b7a6
a>> For speaking (writing) such stereotypical bullcrap I curse
a>> you, and for your lies about not doing so (if you were a man
A>> you would admit your actions) I damn you.
A>> See you in Hell!
FR> A troll, perhaps.
You always say that.
It would save bandwidth if you'd just tell when you think a
newcomer ISN'T a troll. (A term that I feel has been overworked
to the point of being meaningless.)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Satanic Curse Update
|Date: 23 Jan 96 18:27:37
EID:d952 20379360
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6102a1de
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 0883b7a6
jjh>> Today is Day TWO of my Satanic Curse.
jjh>> Nothing has happened.
FR> Aren't you scared?! If I were you I'd be running around in
FR> tight little circles yelling "get it off me! get it off
FR> me!" and shitting my pants.
A hematite suppository will take care of that problem.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: CONVICTION
|Date: 23 Jan 96 18:32:48
EID:8d02 20379400
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6102ac0b
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 080e1835
FR> Then I saw them launch suit against schools in California when
FR> they tried to impliment a school uniform. Now I have NO respect
FR> for the fucking ACLU.
Why?
Dress is a form of self expression, and as such is protected speech.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christian Jobs
|Date: 24 Jan 96 00:38:54
EID:e7a5 203804c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61061786
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890D0E33
BH> CHRISTIAN HORIZONS
BH> Front line staff required to work with developmentally and
BH>> behaviourally challanged individuals in group home settings.
BH>> Working from a Christian perspective, education and experience
BH>> are required.
DC> You will note that the reason for the position is that it
DC> is from a particular perspective along the goals of the
DC> organization. As such, the requirement can legally be made
DC> that the applicants demonstrate those abilities. It does
DC> not necessarily mean that the applicant _has_ to be a xian,
DC> just that the values that the organization wants to provide
DC> follow within those lines.
What do you think the VERY FIRST question they ask during the
interviews is?
"What church do you attend?"
DC> The only thing that I find fault in the above job
DC> description is that a xian education is required.
As well as Christian "experience". To me that seems to be
equivalent to saying the applicant HAS to be a Christian.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:01:36
EID:d402 20380820
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61066413
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30fefae6
JG>> I was deeply involved in the occult when I was younger. My
JG>> family comes from a long line of Santeria (Cuban voodoo).
DW> At least *he* doesn't claim to have been a High Priest...
He'd be a pure fraud if he was. I'm willing to give his claim the
benefit of a doubt for the time being.
The Yoruba religion (the african predecessor of Santeria) is
highly complex and comes from a culture without a written languange.
It's highly unlikely that anyone would be familiar with each and
every aspect of the religion. So, the Yoruba had specialists: they
had healers, diviners, godfathers and godmothers (folks who attend
to the various rites of passage) and priests devoted to the various
orishas (demigods, of which the Yoruba have hundreds).
There simply isn't a clearly defined career path that ends with
a glorified position at the top of the ladder. There is no position
available for someone who wants to be a pope, high priest, high
lama, maharishi or grand poohbah. The concept is totaly alien to
the religion.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Bethann
|Sub: Tolerance
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:23:14
EID:5cea 20380ae0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61067032
REPLY: 1:324/127 5697e1e4
B> I'm not saying that I can with 100% accuracy predict future
B> events.
I just waded through three of your messages where you go into
great detail about what you CAN'T do and what you AREN'T saying.
Groovy...
What *CAN* you do that will substantiate your claim that you
are "psychic"?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Morrison
|Sub: ?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 01:26:28
EID:4d58 20380b40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61067ca5
REPLY: 1:280/26 31034c01
RM> God created a 'being' that had the choice of choosing to do
RM> right or wrong. One that could choose to love or to
RM> reject. Sadly, now, most reject. God said, it was good.
What would you do if you bought a freezer and after a
week it quit working? Blame the appliance for making
a bad choice? Or blame the manufacturer for producing a
defective product?
Would you be satisfied if you contacted the manufacturer
and their reply was: "It is good" ?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Zayd Allebban
|Sub: The Ultimate Shit List - Part 1.
|Date: 24 Jan 96 03:28:18
EID:c942 20381b80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6107b6d3
REPLY: 0019ebb2
->> I finally get a fundy in my net, and wouldn't you know it
->> turns out to be a Muslim.
ZA> David, what is this supposed to mean? I don't know what a
ZA> "fundy" is, but I hope it's nothing bad.
Oh.. I'm afraid it does mean "something bad". At one time it meant
Fundamentalist, but the term has been stretched and expanded to
where it can include just about anyone. So think of it as being
"mildly bad" as though you had just been called a booger. I don't
think it's anything you should lose sleep over.
(I suspect it is inevitable that you will become the target of
some genuine animosity, but that will come a little later. This
is simply not an area for the emotionally sensitive.)
We don't see to many Moslems in here, so let me say Welcome to
the echo.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Zayd Allebban
|Sub: The Ultimate Shit List - Part 1.
|Date: 24 Jan 96 03:45:50
EID:c942 20381da0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6107f0ef
REPLY: 0019eba9
->> Does Allah ever have to take a shit?
->> Does he have to piss?
ZA> David, you're real funny. Since you obviously don't
ZA> believe in God while I do, you stay with your beliefs and
ZA> I'll stay with mine. I haven't mocked your beliefs, so you
ZA> better not mock mine. I won't stand for this blasphemy and
ZA> if you don't want to carry on a civilized discussion, I
ZA> don't want to hear from you again.
Tsk, tsk....
Remember what I just said about being emotionally sensitive?
If you're going to stick around for any length of time here,
you had better be prepaired to be confronted with every biased
stereotype of Moslems that you can think of.
Be prepaired to be held PERSONALY responsible for the practice
of female circumcision. (I am of the opinion that if the practice
had existed in the Prophet's time he would have prohibited it, just
as tatoos are prohibited.)
Be prepaired to be held personaly responsible for the estate of
women throughout the Islamic world.
You will be accused of being a polygamist, idol worshiper and
a terrorist.
You will be accused of having a punching bag with Saalman Rushdie's
face painted on it in your bedroom closet.
You will be ROTLF'd. (This is a very bad thing.)
You will be called a number of names, none of them polite.
And on a deeper level, each and every thing that you believe will
be mercilessly analyzed and examined. You will be grilled
incessantly for evidence supporting every statement you make. And
no amount of saying "It is written.." will get you off the hook.
Mind you, I think there is room in this echo for a Moslem who will
stick around for a while. But it will have to be someone who is
not quick to take offence. If any of the above makes you feel
uneasy, it might be best for you to simply bail out now.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: HEY! CHICKENSHIT!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 04:20:42
EID:0c6f 20382280
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 610811fd
On Jan 12 00:47 96, Asmodeus of 1:2330/20 wrote:
A> For speaking (writing) such stereotypical bullcrap I curse you,
A> and for your lies about not doing so (if you were a man you would
A> admit your actions) I damn you.
A> See you in Hell!
Today is Day THIRTEEN of Satanic Curse Number One.
Nothing has happened.
Today is your stated delivery date for Satanic Curse Number Two.
PAY UP, BUTTPIMPLE!
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Maria russel in the new_w
|Date: 24 Jan 96 04:30:34
EID:d0e8 203823c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61083fad
REPLY: 1:157/200 37020bab
AG>>Why would any American disbelieve in the Illuminati?
KDM> I duuno, maybe because there was no Illuminati until the
KDM> Illuminatus trilogy, perhaps?
Ah... but there was.
Or rather, there were conspiracy nuts who wrote about the Illuminati
DECADES before it they were introduced into pop-culture by the
Illuminatus Trilogy.
They were a favorite of the John Birch Society. And they played a
heavy role in Phyllis ShitFlie's book _A Choice, Not An Echo_ (the
book that made the "Bilderberg Group" a favorite of the Nutso
Right).
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: White-lighter Religio
|Date: 24 Jan 96 04:50:04
EID:111e 20382640
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6108521a
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 30fe95eb
DW> Asmodeus probably doesn't know how lucky he is that
DW> cyber-spiders haven't been invented yet.... :)
Sounds like abuse of good ironware if you ask me.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Absurdities 3 of 4
|Date: 24 Jan 96 04:52:50
EID:a05c 20382680
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 61086fb6
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 30fec131
SA> The only book as boring as the wholly babble is "Mein Kampf". I
SA> was never able to finish that, or read more than two pages of it
SA> at a time, either.
I don't have a problem with the Bible. I actually like it.
But you're right about Mein Kampf. The biggest problem with it is
each and every page is the same. Hitler only had four or five
points he wanted to make and he simply repeats them over and
over again.
But for truly BRAIN NUMBING books, it's really hard to beat
_Science And Health, With Key To Scriptures_. I find it
excruciatingly difficult to make it through one of Mrs. Eddy's
paragraphs, let alone an entire page.
It's even worse than the Urantia Book, which is pretty damned
bad.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 05:19:42
EID:8632 20382a60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6108b0a5
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492ad
JH>> Have any evidence of either?
SW> Read your Bible for proof of God. Open your eyes, breath a
SW> breath air. Look in the mirror, examine the world around
SW> you, look at the stars...look at the "Life"...
Groovy... the "tweeting birds" argument.
SW> Open your eyes, breath a breath air.
"breath a breath air" ?
SW> Look in the mirror,
Looks like God needs to brush their hair... no wait, that's me.
God looks like me? Why? Doesn't God have enough problems already?
SW> examine the world around you,
There's the mirror, there's the sink... Yup, I'm in the bathroom.
SW> look at the stars...
Ohmigod! It's full of stars!
SW> look at the "Life"...
How did this breakfast cereal get in my bathroom?
SW> ...Look at your cemetary,
I don't own a cemetery. I wish I did.
People are just dying to get in them.
SW> look at the sin, look at the wickedness thats widespread,
SW> look at the deceptionin this world.
So much for all the tweeting birds, huh?
Sorry, sentimental clap-trap doesn't count as evidence.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
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SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Judgement
|Date: 24 Jan 96 05:35:32
EID:29fc 20382c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6108cc39
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492ae
SW> May God remove the camaflouge and equip you with the
SW> knowledge of warfare. In Christ Jesus's name I pray.
Fight, kill and mutilate for JESUS!
YAY! YAY! YAY!
By the way.... who was that pacifist creep who said: "Inasmuch as
ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye
have done it unto me." ?
Who was that guy? Some goddam hippie, I think...
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 730/2 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Golden Showers
|Date: 22 Jan 96 12:26:51
EID:7c52 20366340
Don Martin, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said to
Marty Leipzig:
DM> Marty Leipzig said "Staal shows all..." to Jim Staal, adding:
JS> OK, OK...it's actually called 'the Golden Dragon'...
ML> Then you went to the cathouse next door, called the Golden
ML> Shower.
DM> When Staal goes, he gets showered by real cats. They told him it
DM> was the specialitee d' maison, and he couldn't pass up the bargain.
DM> He really likes the part where they scratch around on his face
DM> afterard.
Then they tried to bury him when he was playing in the sandbox.
... "A cat will almost always blink when hit on the head with a hammer."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: THERE'S NO SCOTCH LIKE NO
|Date: 22 Jan 96 12:27:41
EID:75bf 20366360
Judith Bandsma, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said
to Marty Leipzig:
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Hilling <=-
DH> Beam... James Beam.
ML> Dickel...George Dickel.
JB> I saw Jim Beam ICE CREAM in the store last week.
Sounds interesting. Although, I prefer my own hi-octane
homemade. Rum raisin, anyone?
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Plot course to seedy hotel in New Orleans?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: flood
|Date: 23 Jan 96 05:30:29
EID:acdf 20372bc0
Andrew Masten, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said
to Marty Leipzig:
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Andrew Masten <=-
KW> What the hell were you expecting, Maria? For them to claim they were
KW> flooded with Kool-Aid? The flood stories are similar because they
KW> were describing the same type of event--i.e., the big bad water took
KW> over my house. Now you are going to tell us that there has only been
KW> one typhoon because all the stories tell us that the big wind took over
KW> my house? -!-
AM> You believe tarot cards divine the future.
ML> Wrong. I believe nothing.
AM> This credo of yours," I believe nothing", what does that mean?
That I believe nothing; I prefer to think. It's really not that
difficult of a concept to fathom.
AM> Does it mean that you are so convinced of what you think is true that
AM> it requires no belief?
If it's truth you want, the Philosophy Department is down the
hall to the left.
Belief requires acceptance without evidence; and in some really
pernicious cases, contrary to the evidence. I cannot and will
not allow myself to be party to any part of that.
AM> Are you so arrogant to presume that you alone
AM> have cornered the market on truth?
See above. You proceed from a false assumption.
AM> And all who disagree are fools and
AM> naysayers?
Many do present that appearance.
AM> I don't believe either you or science are the final
AM> arbiters of truth.
You certainly do have this hang-up with the word "truth",
however misplaced. I agree that it does have it's place,
but when discussing such vagaries as someone's beliefs, it does
not apply.
AM> Though I'm sure you have never been wrong,
Please show where I ever claimed that! Strawman, Andy.
Please immolate your dried vegetal matter beings elsewhere.
I have quite often been wrong. Big difference though, I readily
admit my error and learn from it; something a certain group of
individuals that haunt this particular forum should learn to
emulate.
AM> cleary
AM> history shows science has made some mistakes.
Please, again show where I claimed otherwise. Watch that Zippo,
Andy.
Science does not err, scientists do. BUT, science does self-police
and self-correct. The prior admonition that I related applies here
as well.
AM> Whats so
AM> unbelievable about a world wide deluge.
ML> Absolutley wrong! Melt the polar caps, and sea level would rise
ML> a few tens of meters, only inundating about 4-5% of low lying
ML> coastal areas. The fact remains that there is no where near the
ML> 2 additional hydrospheres of water on Earth to flood it to the
ML> depths reported in the mythology of the Bible.
ML> Besides, where'd all this water go and where's the global flood
ML> stratum?
AM> Your probably right Marty.
No, Andy. I AM right.
AM> The figure I had was off the top of
AM> my head. With sharp guys like you around, I'll refrain from "wagging".
Hmm...you're learning.
AM> Prior to Darwinism and the thought that things now are as they been
AM> for millions of years, it was assumed that the strata in which they
AM> found so many fossils was caused by a global flood.
Darwinism had much less an impact on geology than you relate.
In fact, you've got it exactly backwards. Lyellian geology
paved the way for Darwin. In fact, as per Huxley: "I cannot but
think that Lyell was for others, as for me, the chief agent in
smoothing the road for Darwin".
AM> I know its hard to
AM> believe but 150 years ago many scientists believed in God. Yet they
AM> made huge advances in understanding nature.
And maybe harder for you to accept that many scientists today
do likewise; yet they keep it out of the arena of the natural
and tucked away in some personal place where, for them, the
supernatural resides.
I do not possess such a place. Reality and logic occupy all my niches.
AM> Bottom line on the flood. If there is a God who created the
AM> entire universe by faith in his spoken word,
Mighty big "if", Andy.
AM> ie. "Let there be light,
AM> and there was light" then of course a world wide deluge would be
AM> childs play.
Then you worship a deceitful and trecherous God, for he hid all
the evidence of this flood he whipped up.
AM> As in fact would all the miracles in the bible.
Well, so much for that evidence I was going to ask for all
these Biblical miracles. You claim they happened, and then God
erased all evidence that they in fact did.
Seems rather underhanded, if you ask me.
AM> If the
AM> bible contained no miracles, then why should we believe a diety was
AM> involved.
Why should we believe in anything without evidence?
AM> God says of himself in the bible "Is there anything to
AM> difficult for Me."
Self-references are not referential, Andy.
AM> Now before you go ballistic, I freely admit I'm
AM> engaged in circular reasoning.
Whap! In goes a round in the 10 ring.
AM> The real issue in this echo is a debate
AM> over exclusive views, are we created or just a natural process.
The result of a very observed, very mechanistic and very natural
series of processes over the span of geological time.
AM> I will
AM> continue to enter my thought into the market place of ideas that we
AM> are created by a creator for a purpose.
And all we ask is evidence; real, cold, hard, physical evidence
for the support of these claims. Otherwise it's all just some
hoary mental construct with any sort of foothold in reality.
And, now, how can one evaluate the pros and cons of purely
mental constructs?
The playing ground is level, Andy. I can supply literally tons
of evidence to support my contention.
Can you claim the same?
AM> Lastly, my original question was how someone who believes that
AM> tarot cards divine the future, could find a worldwide flood untenable.
AM> Though you jumped on the flood issue, you remained silent on the other
AM> issue.
Tarot cards, cold readings and all other sort of NewAge SewAge
is merely all load of buncombe. The flood story is old mythos
dressed up to go downtown as religion. I just like to show how
threadbare is that particular flood garment.
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Have your heard of the 'Ark of Noah'"?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Fundy Follies!
|Date: 22 Jan 96 20:35:35
EID:55d2 2036a460
Sean McCullough, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said
to Marty Leipzig:
> SM> Yeppers. But it's the Rockies themselves that are the volcanic
> SM> granites, NOT the Garden of the Gods.
> Point of petrological procedure, Herr McCullough; granites are
> plutonic in origin.
SM> "Igneous" and "volcanic" are NOT synonyms -- gotta remember that!! All
SM> volcanic minerals are igneous; NOT all igneous minerals are
SM> volcanic.....
Precisely. Now, were those igneous minerals intrusive or
extrusive?
> (But the rest is very, very good. You've
> been studying those heathen texts again, haven't you?)
SM> Goat damn right!!
"Master...our legions are increasing..."
... I made wine out of raisins so I wouldn't have to wait for it to age.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: WHAT'S A "FUNDY?"
|Date: 23 Jan 96 05:25:37
EID:3b73 20372b20
J.J. Hitt, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said to
Marty Leipzig:
MG>> And you wash this down with bourbon?
JH>> Heavens, no!
JH>> When I was drinking, I was a drunk.
JH>> But I wasn't a fucking degenerate.
ML> But you drank scotch?
JH> Never saw the point in Scotch.
Well, we are in deep agreement on at least one point.
JH> All whiskeys, regardless of their heritage, tasted like burnt
JH> wood to me.
And scotch has the added bonus of humic acid and fish piss.
... I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's ...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Evolungelic
|Date: 23 Jan 96 05:28:23
EID:1c9e 20372b80
J.J. Hitt, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said to
Michael Hardy:
DR>> This paragraph makes no sense. Are you saying aliens are
DR>> responsible for life on earth?
MH> No, he's saying that if scientists received signals from space
MH> with an order and complexity even approaching what is in DNA,
MH> they'd herald it as strong evidence of intelligent life.
JH> If scientists received signals from space with an order and
JH> complexity even approaching what is in _I_Love_Lucy_ they'd
JH> herald it as strong evidence of ...um... life.
Of course, not intelligent life, but life nonetheless.
... Fundamentalism: Know-nothings telling all they know about science.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers - Part 1
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:33:08
EID:7b46 20375420
25 CREATIONISTS' ARGUMENTS &
25 EVOLUTIONISTS' ANSWERS
A Primer For Science Educators On The
Evolution-Creationism Debate
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dear Reader:
The following article originally appeared in Volume 2, #2
of _Skeptic_ magazine, the quarterly publication of the
Skeptics Society, an organization of scholars, scientists,
historians, magicians, science educators, and the general
public interested in investigating extraordinary claims,
promoting science and critical thinking, and disseminating
information on science, magic, superstition, and
skepticism.
This reprint is part of our campus outreach program to
promote science and critical thinking in the classroom, in
an effort to stem the tide of irrationality, superstition,
and pseudoscience being presented to students, parents,
and teachers through the print and electronic media. We
have defeated the creationists in the courtroom--the
Scopes trial in 1925, the Arkansas trial in 1981 and the
U.S. Supreme Court Louisiana case in 1987. But now we
must meet them in the classroom, as they have turned to a
grassroots strategy of providing students, teachers, and
parents with literature promoting their pseudoscientific
views claiming that evolutionary biologists, geologists,
paleontologists, cosmologists, physicists, and many other
scientists are completely wrong, and that modern science
must be reworked to fit their interpretation of the Bible.
It is important to note that skeptics and scientists have
no quarrel with genuinely religious people and religious
organizations who make no claims of scientific proof for
their religious beliefs. It is when groups like the so-
called "scientific creationists" distort the methods and
conclusions of science for religious and political ends,
and then demand "equal time" in the classroom, that we
must take a stand.
It is our goal to make this reprint available to every
science educator and student in America. Please feel free
to reproduce and distribute is it to as many students and
fellow educators as you wish without seeking further
permission. If you would like to reprint it in another
publication or electronic medium, please contact us first.
There will be no charge, but we like to know where our
work is being republished. [This is an authorized
reproduction. For an actual reprint of this article,
please contact the Skeptics Society at the address below.]
For further information on the Skeptics Society and
Skeptic magazine, please write to the address below.
Skeptic is available at many bookstores, or you can
subscribe. The Skeptics Society also sponsors a monthly
lecture series at CALTECH on a variety of subjects
including James "The Amazing" Randi on pseudoscience,
Steve Allen on critical thinking, Dr. Carol Tavris on the
misdiagnosis of the mind, Dr. Jared Diamond on the
evolution of human creativity, Dr. Bernard Leikind on
firewalking, Dr. John Hochman on False Memory Syndrome,
Gina Green on facilitated communication, Mike Darwin on
Cryonics and life extension, Dr. Thomas McDonough on the
search for exterrestrial intelligence, etc.
We also sponsor an annual science fair at CALTECH.
Transcripts of some lectures are reprinted in Skeptic and
most lectures are available on video tape. Back issues of
Skeptic are also available.
I hope you find the following useful in your teaching and
we would be interested in hearing from you about your
experiences in teaching evolution and/or creationism in
your classroom, any pressures you may have had to teach
creationism from students, parents, or administrators, and
your thoughts on how the Skeptics Society can better
promote science and critical thinking through schools.
Michael Shermer, Ph.D.
Director and Publisher
Adjunct Assistant Professor, History of Science,
Occidental College
Skeptics Society
2761 North Marengo Avenue
Altadena, CA 91001
Phone/Fax: 818/794-3119
(Permission granted: 23 January, 1996)
Sum ergo cogito -- I am therefore I think
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
25 CREATIONISTS' ARGUMENTS
& 25 EVOLUTIONISTS' ANSWERS
By Michael Shermer
Executive Editor, Skeptic Magazine
Adjunct Assistant Professor,
History of Science,
Occidental College
The following is a list of arguments put forth by
creationists primarily directed toward problems with
evolutionary theory, and secondarily (in a minor way)
positive statements of their beliefs. The arguments
and answers are simplified for space purposes but
constitute the principle terms of the debate. They
were developed for my semester-long seminar on the
subject and thus an important caveat is needed: These
explanations are not meant to be a substitute for
critical reading. While these answers might be
adequate for a casual conversation, they would not be
suitable for a formal debate with a well-prepared
creationist. Fuller explanations can be found in
numerous books, such as the following ones I used in
preparing this list, and would be a good place to
begin: _Evolution: The History of an Idea_ (1989) by
Peter Bowler (University of California Press);
_Science on Trial: The Case for Evolution_ (1982) by
Douglas Futuyma (Pantheon); _Creationism on Trial:
Evolution and God at Little Rock_ (1985) by Langdon
Gilkey (Harper & Row); _Scientists Confront
Creationism_ (1983) by Laurie Godfrey (ed.) (Norton);
_Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes_ (1983) and _Bully for
Brontosaurus_ (1991) by Stephen Jay Gould (Norton);
_The Creationists_ (1992) by Ronald Numbers (Knopf);
_Darwinism Defended_ (1982) by Michael Ruse (Addison-
Wesley). Thanks to _Skeptic_ editorial board members
Donald Prothero and Tom McIver for reviewing the
list.
... "And remember, it's all in the name of science ..." Tom and Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers - Part 2
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:26:21
EID:7b46 20375340
A second caveat: skeptics often find themselves in
debates, some formal, mostly informal, so we would be
wise to heed the words of Stephen Jay Gould, who has
confronted the creationists on many an occasion
(taken from a 1985 lecture at CALTECH):
Debate is an artform. It is about the winning of
arguments. It is not about the discovery of
truth. There are certain rules and procedures to
debate that really have nothing to do with
establishing fact _ which they are very good at.
Some of those rules are: never say anything
positive about your own position because it can
be attacked, but chip away at what appear to be
the weaknesses in your opponent's position. They
are good at that. I don't think I could beat the
Creationists at debate. I can tie them. But in
courtrooms they are terrible, because in
courtrooms you cannot give speeches. In a
courtroom you have to answer direct questions
about the positive status of your belief. We
destroyed them in Arkansas. On the second day of
the two week trial we had our victory party!
PHILOSOPHICAL BASED ARGUMENTS AND RESPONSES
1. Creation-science is scientific and therefore
should be taught in public school science courses.
Creation-science is scientific in name only. It is
a thinly disguised religious position espousing the
doctrine of special creation, and therefore is not
appropriate for public school science courses, any
more than calling something Muslim-science or Buddha-
science or Christianscience would require equal time.
The following statement from the Institute for
Creation Research, the "research" arm of Christian
Heritage College and to which all faculty members and
researchers adhere, is proof of their true beliefs.
There is nothing scientific about "creation science":
We believe in the absolute integrity of Holy
Scripture and its plenary verbal inspiration by
the Holy Spirit as originally written by men
prepared for God for this purpose. The
scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, are
inerrant in relation to any subject with which
they deal, and are to be accepted in their
natural and intended sense . . . all things in
the universe were created and made by God in the
six days of special creation described in
Genesis. The creationist account is accepted as
factual, historical and perspicuous and is thus
fundamental in the understanding of every fact
and phenomenon in the created universe.
2. Neither creationism nor evolutionary theory
are scientific because "science only deals with the
here-and-now and cannot answer historical questions
about the creation of the universe and the origins of
life and man."
This, of course, undermines the entire superstructure
of"creation-science" and argument #1, but is untrue
anyway because science does deal with past phenomena,
as found in the historical sciences of cosmology,
geology, paleontology, paleoanthropology, and
archaeology. There are experimental sciences and
historical sciences, using different methodologies
but equal in their ability to understand causality,
and evolutionary biology is a valid and legitimate
historical science. If this statement were true, much
of science, not just evolutionary theory, would be
sterile.
3. Since education is a process of learning
both sides of an issue, it is appropriate for both creationism
and evolution to be taught side-by-side in public
school classrooms. Not to do so is a violation of the
philosophy of education, and of the civil liberties
of creationists. i.e., we have a "right" to be heard.
Besides, what is the harm in hearing both sides?
The multiple sides of issues is indeed a part of
the general educational process, and it might be
appropriate to discuss creationism in courses on
religion, history, or even philosophy, but most
certainly not science, any more than biology courses
should include lectures on American Indian creation-
myths. Not to do so violates no rights, since nowhere
in nature or the Constitution does it say everyone
has a right to teach creationism in public schools.
Rights do not exist in nature. Rights are a concept
constructed by man to protect certain freedoms, but
have degenerated into pleas for special privilege by
nearly every group and individual in America who
wants something they do not have. Finally, there is
considerable harm in teaching "creationscience" as
science because it is an attack on all the sciences,
not just evolutionary biology. If the universe and
Earth are only about 10,000 years old, cosmology,
astronomy, physics, chemistry, geology, paleontology,
et al. would be invalidated. Creationism cannot even
be partially correct. As soon as supernatural
causation is allowed in the creation of even one
species, they could all be created this way, and the
assumption of natural laws in nature is voided and
science becomes meaningless.
4. The amazing correlation between the "facts" of
nature and the "acts" of the Bible is purely
coincidental, but it is therefore appropriate to
cross-reference creationscience books with the Bible.
The true stripes of the creationists can be seen
in the following quote from Henry Morris, head of the
Institute for Creation Research, that reveals his
preference for faith in authority over any possible
contradictory empirical evidence (and thus
demonstrating their lack of scientific methodology):
The main reason for insisting on the universal Flood
as a fact of history and as the primary vehicle for
geological interpretation is that God's Word plainly
teaches it! No geological difficulties, real or
imagined, can be allowed to take precedence over the
clear statements and necessary inferences of
Scripture."
It would be ludicrous to imagine professors at
CALTECH,for example, making a similar statement of
belief in Darwin's Origin or Newton's Principia, such
that no difficulties could take precendence over the
authority of the book.
... "Creation Science" ain't.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers -Part 3
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:27:42
EID:7b46 20375360
5. The theory of natural selection is
tautological, or a form of circular reasoning. Those
that survive are the best adapted. Who are the best
adapted? Those that survive. Tautologies do not make
a science.
Creationists have a very simplistic and naive
understanding of the workings of natural selection.
First of all, natural selection is by no means the
only mechanism of organic change (e.g., Darwin wrote
an entire book about sexual selection). Second,
population genetics demonstrates quite clearly, and
with mathematical prediction, when natural selection
will and will not effect change on a population.
Third, one can make predictions based on the theory
of natural selection, and then test them, as the
geneticist does in the example above, or the
paleontologist does in interpreting the fossil
record.
6. There are "only two explanations for the
origins of life and existence of man, plants and
animals: It was either the work of a creator or it
was not." Since evolution theory is unsupported by
the evidence (i.e., it is wrong), creationism must be
correct. Any evidence "which fails to support the
theory of evolution is necessarily scientific
evidence in support of creationism."
Beware of anyone who says "there are only two . . ."
It is the classic mistake of logic known as the either-
or fallacy, or the fallacy of false alternatives (the
"False Dilemma"). If A is false, B must be true. Oh?
Why? Plus, should not B stand on its own regardless
of A? Of course. So even if evolutionary theory turns
out to be completely wrong and the whole thing was a
big mistake, that does not mean that, ergo,
creationism is right. There may be alternatives C, D,
and E we have yet to consider.
7. Evolutionary theory is the basis of Marxism,
communism, atheism, immorality, and the general
decline of the morals and culture of America, and
therefore is bad for our children.
In this argument we begin to see the cultural
background of creationism as a social and political movement,
not a scientific one. This is, in part, why they have
turned to the legal system to try to get the state to
force their "science" on students. But legislation
cannot make a belief system scientific; only science
and scientists can do so.
The theory of evolution in particular, and
science in general, is no more the basis of these
"isms" than the printing press is responsible for Hitler's
Mein Kampf. The fact that the science of genetics has been
used to buttress racial theories of the innate
inferiority of certain groups does not mean we should
abandon the study of genes. There may well be
Marxist, communist, atheist, and even immoral
(however defined) evolutionists, but there are
probably just as many capitalist, theist (or
agnostic), and moral evolutionists. As for the theory
itself, it can be used to support Marxist, communist,
and atheist ideologies, and it has; but so has it
been used (especially in America), to lend scientific
credence to laissez-faire capitalism. Linking
scientific theories to political ideologies is tricky
business and we must be cautious of making
connections that do not necessarily follow.
8. Evolutionary theory, along with its bed-partner
secular humanism, is really a religion, so it is not
appropriate to teach it in public schools.
To call the science of evolutionary biology a
religion is to so broaden the definition of religion as
to make it totally meaningless. Science is a set of cognitive
and behavioral methods designed to describe and
interpret observed or inferred phenomenon, past or
present, aimed at building a testable body of
knowledge open to rejection or confirmation. Religion
- whatever it is - is certainly not "testable," nor
is it "open to rejection or confirmation." Similarly,
the "secular" of secular humanism expressly means
"not religious," and therefore cannot be considered a
religion. In their methodologies science and religion
are 180 degrees out of phase.
9. Many leading evolutionists are skeptical of
the theory and find it problematic. E.g., Stephen Jay
Gould and Niles Eldredge have proven that Darwin was
wrong through their theory of punctuated equilibrium.
If the world's leading evolutionists cannot agree on
the theory, the whole thing must be a wash.
It is particularly ironic that the creationists
would quote the leading spokesman against creationism
- Gould - in their attempts to marshal the forces of
science on their side. Creationists have
misunderstood, either naively or intentionally, the
healthy scientific debate amongst evolutionists about
the causal agents of organic change. They apparently
perceive this normal exchange of ideas and self-
correcting nature of science as evidence that the
field is coming apart at the seams. Of the many
things evolutionists argue and debate about within
the field, one thing they are certain of and all
agree upon is that evolution has occurred. Exactly
how it happened, and what the relative strengths of
the various causal mechanisms are, continues to be
discussed. Eldredge and Gould's theory of punctuated
equilibrium is a refinement of and improvement upon
Darwin's larger theory of evolution. It no more
proves Darwin wrong than Einsteinian relativity
proves Newton wrong.
10. The whole history of evolutionary theory in
particular, and science in general, is the history of
mistaken theories and overthrown ideas. Nebraska Man,
Piltdown Man, Calaveras Man and _Hesperopithecus
haroldcooki_ are just a few of the blunders
scientists have made. Clearly science cannot be
trusted and modern theories are no better than past
ones.
Again, this is a gross misunderstanding of the
nature of science, which is constantly building upon
the ideas of the past. Science does not just change,
it builds and progresses. It does make mistakes
aplenty, but the selfcorrecting feature of the
scientific method is one of its most beautiful
aspects. Hoaxes like Piltdown Man and Calaveras Man,
and honest mistakes like Nebraska Man and
Hesperopithecus, are, in time, exposed. Science picks
itself up, shakes itself off, and moves on. As
Einstein said, science may be "primitive and
childlike," but "it is the most precious thing we
have." (It is especially paradoxical for creation
"scientists" to cloak themselves in the rhetoric of
science, and simultaneously attack the very virtues
it claims to possess.)
... "Creation Science" is neither.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers - Part 4
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:29:00
EID:7b46 203753a0
11. All causes have effects. The cause of "X" must be
"X-like." That is, the cause of intelligence must be
intelligent. Also, regress all causes in time and you
must conclude that there was a first cause - God.
Likewise with motion (all things in motion proves
that there must have been a prime mover, a mover who
needs no other mover to be moved - God); and purpose
(all things in the universe have a purpose, therefore
there must be an intelligent designer).
For starters, causes of "X" do not have to be "X-
like." The "cause" of green paint is blue and yellow
paint, neither one of which is green-like. Animal
manure makes fruit trees grow better. Fruit is
delicious to eat and is, therefore, very unmanure-
like! The first-cause and prime-mover argument,
brilliantly proffered by St. Thomas Aquinas in the
14th century and still more brilliantly refuted by
David Hume in the 18th century, is easily answered
with just one more question: who or what caused and
moved God? Finally, as Hume demonstrated,
"purposefulness" is often illusory and subjective.
"The early bird gets the worm" is a clever design if
you are the bird, not so good if you are the worm.
Two eyes may seem like the ideal number, but, as
Richard Hardison notes with levity, "wouldn't it be
desirable to have an additional eye in the back of
one's head, and certainly an eye attached to our
forefinger would be helpful when we're working behind
the instrument panels of automobiles." Purpose is, in
part, what we are accustomed to perceiving. Finally,
not everything is so purposeful and beautifully
designed. In addition to the problems of evil,
disease, and deformities that creationists
conveniently overlook, nature is filled with the
bizarre and seemingly unpurposeful. Male nipples and
the Panda's thumb are just two examples that Gould is
fond of flaunting as purposeless and poorly designed
structures. If God so graciously designed life to fit
neatly together like a jig saw puzzle, then how do
you explain these oddities?
12. Something cannot be created out of nothing,
say scientists. Therefore, from where did the material
for the Big Bang come? And, from where did the first
life forms originate that provided the raw material
for evolution? And the Stanley Miller experiment of
creating amino acids out of an organic "soup" is not
the creation of life.
Science is not equipped to answer certain
"ultimate" type questions, such as "what was there
before the beginning of the universe?," "what time
was it before time began?," and "where did the matter
come from for the Big Bang?" These are philosophical
or religious questions, not scientific ones, and
therefore are not part of science. Evolutionary
theory attempts to understand the causality of change
after time and matter were "created" (whatever that
means). As for the origins of life, biochemists do
have a very rational and scientific explanation for
the evolution from inorganic to organic compounds,
the creation of amino acids and the construction of
protein chains, the first crude cells, and so on.
(And Miller never claimed to have created life, just
the building blocks of life.) While these theories
are by no means robust and still subject to lively
scientific debate, there is a reasonable explanation
for how you get from the Big Bang to the Big Brain.
"SCIENTIFICALLY" BASED ARGUMENTS AND RESPONSES
13. Population statistics demonstrate that at
the present population and rate of growth, there were
only two people living approximately 6,300 years
before present, or 4,300 B.C. This proves that humans
and civilization are quite young. If the Earth were
old, say one million years, over the course of 25,000
generations at 1/2% rate of population growth and an
average of 2.5 children per family, the present
population would be 10 to the power of 2100 people,
which is impossible since there are only 10 to the
power of 130 electrons in the known universe.
As Disraeli observed (and Mark Twain
reiterated), there are three types of lies: "lies,
damn lies, and statistics." But if you want to play
the numbers game, here are a few: by this analysis,
in 2,600 B.C. there would have been a total
population on Earth of around 600 people. We know
with a high degree of certainty that in 2,600 B.C.
there were flourishing civilizations in Egypt,
Mesopotamia, the Indus River Valley, China, etc.
Giving Egypt an extremely generous 1/6th of the
world's population, for 60 people to have built the
pyramids, not to mention all the other architectural
monuments, they most certainly would have needed a
miracle or two, or perhaps the assistance of ancient
astronauts! The fact is, populations do not grow in a
steady manner. There are booms and busts, and the
history of the human population before the Industrial
Revolution is one of prosperity and growth, followed
by famine and decline. As humans struggled for
millennia to fend off extinction, the population
curve was one of peaks and valleys as it climbed
steadily, though uncertainly upward. It is only since
the 19th century that the rate of increase has been
accelerating.
14. Natural selection can never account for anything
other than minor changes within species _
microevolution. Mutations used by evolutionists to
explain macroevolution are always harmful, rare, and
random, and cannot be the driving force of
evolutionary change.
I shall never forget the four words pounded into the
brains of us students of evolutionary biologist
Bayard Bratstram at California State University,
Fullerton - "Mutants are not monsters." His point was
that the public perception of mutations at the county
fair - two-headed cows and the like is not the sort
of mutations evolutionists are discussing. Clearly
it would be unreasonable to argue that these sorts of
mutations are beneficial. But most mutations are
small genetic or chromosomal abberations that have
small effects. Some of these small effects may
provide benefits to an organism in an ever-changing
environment. Also, the modern theory of "allopatric
speciation," first proffered by Ernst Mayr and
integrated into paleontology by Eldredge and Gould,
demonstrates precisely how natural selection, in
conjunction with other forces and contingencies of
nature, can and does produce new species.
... 20th Rule of Creationism: Insist that science ignores your proof
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers - Part 5
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:35:13
EID:7b46 20375460
15. There are no transitional forms in the
fossil record, anywhere, including and especially
humans. The whole fossil record is an embarrassment
to evolutionists. What about Neanderthals? These are
all diseased skeletons -arthritis, rickets, etc.,
that create the bowed legs, brow ridge, and larger
skeletal structure. _Homo erectus_, and
_Australopithecus_, are just apes.
Creationists always quote Darwin's famous
passage in the Origin of Species in which he asks:
"Why then is not every geological formation and every
stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology
assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated
organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the gravest
objection which can be urged against my theory." One
answer is that there are plenty of examples of
transitional forms that have been discovered since
Darwin's time. Just look in any paleontology text. A
second answer was provided in 1972 by Eldredge and
Gould when they demonstrated that gaps in the fossil
record does not indicate missing data of slow and
stately change; rather, it is evidence of rapid and
episodic change. Using Mayr's "allopatric
speciation," where small and unstable "founder"
populations are isolated at the periphery of the
larger population's range, they show that the
relatively rapid change in this smaller gene pool
creates new species but leaves behind few, if any,
fossils. The process of fossilization is rare and
infrequent anyway. It is almost nonexistent during
these times of rapid speciation. A lack of fossils is
evidence for rapid change, not missing evidence for
gradual evolution.
16. The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves that
evolution cannot be true since evolutionists state
that the universe and life moves from chaos to order
and simple to complex, the exact opposite of the
entropy predicted by the Second Law.
First of all, on any scale other than the grandest of
all - 600 million years of life on Earth - species do
not evolve from simple to complex, and life does not
simply move from chaos to order. The history of life
is checkered with false starts, failed experiments,
small and mass extinctions, and chaotic restarts. It
is anything but the Time/Life-book foldout from
single cells to humans. But even in the big picture,
the Second Law allows for such change because the
Earth is enveloped within an open system of a
constant input of energy from the sun. As long as the
sun is burning, life may continue thriving and
evolving, just like automobiles may be prevented from
rusting, burgers can be heated in ovens, and all
manner of things in apparent violation of the Second
Law's rule of entropy may continue. But as soon as
the sun burns out this open system would then become
closed, entropy would take its course, and life would
cease. In addition, recent research in chaos theory
is demonstrating that order can and does
spontaneously generate out of apparent chaos, all
without violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
Evolution does not break the law!
17. Even the simplest of life forms are too
complex to have come together by random chance. Take
a simple organism consisting of merely 100 parts.
Mathematically there are 10 to the power of 158
possible ways for the parts to link up. There are not
enough molecules in the universe or time since the
beginning to account for these possible ways to come
together in even this simple life form, let alone
human beings. The human eye alone defies explanation
by the randomness of evolution. It is the equivalent
of the monkey typing Hamlet, or even "to be or not to
be." It will not happen by random chance.
Natural selection is not "random" nor does it operate
by "chance." Natural selection preserves the gains
and eradicates the mistakes. The eye evolved from a
single, light-sensitive cell into the complex eye of
today through hundreds if not thousands of
intermediate steps, many of which still exist in
nature. In order for the monkey to type the first 13
letters of Hamlet's soliloquy by chance, it would
take 26 to the power of 13 number of trials for
success. This is 16 times as great as the total
number of seconds that have elapsed in the lifetime
of the solar system. But if each correct letter is
preserved and each incorrect letter eradicated, the
process operates much faster. How much faster?
Richard Hardison constructed a computer program in
which letters were "selected" for or against, and it
took an average of only 335.2 trials to produce the
sequence of letters TOBEORNOTTOBE. This takes the
computer less than 90 seconds. The entire play can be
done in about 4.5 days!
18. Hydrodynamic sorting during the Flood
explains the apparent progression of fossils in
geological strata. The simple, ignorant organisms
died in the sea and are on the bottom layers, while
more complex, smarter, and faster organisms died
higher up.
Not one trilobite floated upward to a higher strata?
Not one dumb horse was on the beach and drowned in a
lower strata? Not one flying pterodactyl made it
above the Cretaceous layer? Not one moronic human did
not come in out of the rain? Speaking of absurd
arguments, consider how a ship 450 feet long by 75
feet wide by 45 feet high could house two each of the
10 to 100 million species on Earth. Even creationists
have trouble with this one, so they claim it was only
30,000 species, the rest "developing" from this
intitial stock, making creationists the greatest
proponents of rapid evolution! In addition, how do
you feed 60,000 animals for 371 days? Still more
complicated, how do you keep 60,000 animals from
feeding on each other? Worst of all, who was in
charge of clean up?
19. The dating techniques of evolutionists are
inconsistent, unreliable, and wrong. They give false
impressions of an old Earth, when in fact it is no
older than 10,000 years, which is proven by Dr.
Thomas Barnes from the University of Texas at El
Paso, who demonstrates that the half-life of the
Earth's magnetic field is 1,400 years.
First of all, Barnes' magnetic field argument
falsely assumes that the decay of the magnetic field
is linear when in fact geophysics demonstrates that
it fluctuates through time. In addition, it is
amusing that creationists dismiss all dating
techniques with the sweep of the hand, except for
those that purportedly support their position. The
various dating techniques, however, are found not
only to be quite reliable, but there is considerable
independent corroboration between them.
... "Creationist nonsense" is redundant.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: All
|Sub: 25 Creationist Arguments and 25 Science Answers - Part 6
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:34:58
EID:7b46 20375440
20. Classification of organisms above the
species level is arbitrary and man-made. Taxonomy
proves nothing.
The science of classification is indeed, man-
made, like all the sciences. But its grouping of
organisms is anything but arbitrary, even though
there is an element of subjectivity to it. There is
nothing arbitrary about a separate classification of
humans and chimpanzees. No one gets them confused. An
interesting cross-cultural test of this claim is the
fact that western-trained biologists and native
peoples from New Guinea identify the same types of
birds as separate species. Such groupings really do
exist in nature.
21. If evolution is gradual, there should be no gaps
between species, and classification (taxonomy) is
impossible.
Evolution is not always gradual. It is quite
sporadic. And evolutionists never said there should
not be gaps. Gaps do not prove creation any more than
blank spots in human history prove that all
civilizations were spontaneously created.
22. "Living fossils" like the coelacanth and
horseshoe crab prove that all life was created at
once.
Then what about all the extinct species? Are these
God's mistakes? Living fossils (organisms that have
not changed for millions of years) simply means that
they evolved an ideal structure for a relatively
static and unchanging environment.
23. The incipient structure problem completely
refutes natural selection: a new structure that
evolves slowly over time would not provide an
advantage to the organism in its beginning or
intermediate stages, only when it is completely
developed, which can only happen by special creation.
E.g., what good is 5% of a wing, or 55%? You need all
or nothing.
A poorly developed wing may have been a well-
developed something else, like a thermoregulator for
ectothermic reptiles. And, it is not true that
incipient stages are completely useless. It is better
to have partial sight versus complete blindness, or
the ability to glide, even if you cannot sustain
controlled flight.
24. Homologous structures (the wing of the bat,
flipper of a whale, the arm of man) are proof of
intelligent design.
By invoking miracles and special providence, of
course, the creationist can pick and choose anything
in nature as proof of God's work, and then ignore the
rest. Homologous structures, on the other hand, make
no sense from a special creation paradigm. Why should
a whale have the same bones in its flipper as a human
has in its arm and a bat has in its wing? The answer
is: none whatsoever. Surely an intelligent designer
could have done better than that. These structures
are indicative of descent with modification, not
divine creation.
25. "The Bible is the written Word of God . . .
all of its assertions are historically and
scientifically true. The great Flood described in
Genesis was an historical event, worldwide in its
extent and effect. We are an organization of
Christian men of science, who accept Jesus Christ as
our Lord and Savior. The account of the special
creation of Adam and Eve as one man and one woman,
and their subsequent Fall into sin, is the basis for
our belief in the necessity of a Savior for all
mankind."
Such a statement of belief is clearly religious
and not scientific. This does not make it wrong, only
that creationscience is really creation-religion, and
to this extent breaches the wall separating church
and state. In private schools funded and/or
controlled by creationists, it is their freedom to
teach whatever they like to their children. But to
ask the state to coerce teachers into teaching a
religious doctrine as scientific is unreasonable and
onerous.
... Atheists don't go door-to-door to tell people to believe science.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
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PATH: 106/113 26 992 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: FOF
|Date: 24 Jan 96 07:16:52
EID:0bef 20383a00
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3105dcfd
PID: GED3 2.5 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Judith!
Lunae dies January 22 1996, Dixit Judith Bandsma ad J.j. Hitt:
JB> ... "Die Jesu Domine, Domine Es Requium." (WHACK!). Repeat as necessary.
"Pie Iesu Domine, dona eis requiem." :)
--- GoldED 2.50+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Leon Askin Fan Club - 214/412-8457 (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Staal shows his colon
|Date: 23 Jan 96 17:04:52
EID:0173 20378880
PID: SX 4.3 BT026
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
On 18 Jan 96 08:26pm, Jim Staal wrote to Steve Quarrella:
SQ> Good afternoon! To which personality am I writing this afternoon?
JS> Jim Staal. You know, the guy to whom you addressed the post. What gives
JS> with this 'standard' greeting every one seems to have for me lately...
Just wanted to make certain that our messages make it to the right place.
:)
JS> THAT'S IT!!!! Stand by for JimLump.gif...coming soon to a BBS near you...
SQ> Is it going to sit in my inbound for a few days while you run around
SQ> here saying that I have it while I'm unaware that I have it?
JS> No.
Well get moving! The planets have lined up, and I'm in a good mood lately.
:)
... Let me guess...you wear a tricorn hat because of the fit.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3 BT026
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Steve, we disagree...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 17:05:28
EID:8c1a 203788a0
PID: SX 4.3 BT026
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
On 18 Jan 96 08:26pm, Jim Staal wrote to Steve Quarrella:
SQ> Just don't get mad when someone calls you a bigot with a Bible, as the
SQ> adjective describes you perfectly.
JS> You are in error, sir, and we disagree...
Hey, I'm just being HONEST. This is my way of showing love and asking that
you improve yourself. :)
... A sprinkle a day helps keep odors away!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3 BT026
* Origin: "And furthermore, 'Don't call me brother.'" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Boni Hitch
|To: Pam Gray
|Sub: Re: 325
|Date: 22 Jan 96 03:48:07
EID:dca4 20361e00
MSGID: 1:250/1004 0b877fe3
PG>I have to admit, sometimes my temper flares when I am debating with people.
PG>but then I sit back, catch my breath and write without flaming them however
PG>I feel I can't write something without flaming a person even though that
PG>person could be the biggest fool on the earth, then I just don't bother
PG>writing. It's not worth the irritation.
PG>Anyway we are getting a little off topic so what else would you care
to
PG>discuss about religion?
Did you read that article about Wiccans that was posted here? It was by
some magazine put out by a Christian Church. I thought it was horribly
biased!
---
ў SLMR 2.1a ў ...Of course I'm crazy. But that doesn't mean I'm WRONG!
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Boni Hitch
|To: David Fono
|Sub: Re: re to agnostic(ism?)
|Date: 22 Jan 96 03:48:08
EID:0f1e 20361e00
MSGID: 1:250/1004 0b877fe4
DF>Whoops; sorry about all that confusion -- actually I wasn't implying
anythi
DF>and anything taken to mean anything means I was probably being sarcastic,
a
DF>I don't really make much sense most of the time anyways. Again, sorry.
And
DF>Stubbs is my handle. I had taken to signing my letters before I realized
th
DF>the message displayed my REAL name. (-:
DF>P.S. REALLY sorry.
No problemo...:) After all the flaming I've been subjected to, you were
very mild...:)
---
ў SLMR 2.1a ў ...Another fine winner of the Off Topic Message Award...
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosњMusicњArtњCoding (1:250/1004)
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|From: Boni Hitch
|To: Todd Andlar
|Sub: Re: receiving?
|Date: 22 Jan 96 03:48:09
EID:839d 20361e00
MSGID: 1:250/1004 0b877fe5
TA> well that's why I wrote the msg... i just got a msg from my hub or
TA>whatever the guy who sends the msgs and he says there might have been
a
TA>problem or two with fidoent.. so hopefully things'll be fixed soon.
Okay, I get a few msgs--but I think they might be from our own guys...:)
---
ў SLMR 2.1a ў ...C program run. C program crash. C Druidess quit...
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Todd Andlar
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: Re: receiving?
|Date: 22 Jan 96 08:16:15
EID:3b9b 20364200
MSGID: 1:250/1004 0b8e464b
BH> Okay, I get a few msgs--but I think they might be from our own guys...:)
exactly :)... oh remind to give you a copy of what the fidonet guy is
saying because basically there's some switchover that's taking place...
with
respect to whos sending what where.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosњMusicњArtњCoding (1:250/1004)
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|From: Pam Gray
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: Re: 325
|Date: 22 Jan 96 12:59:14
EID:243c 20366760
MSGID: 1:250/1004 0b8e464c
Boni,
Indeed I have...
BH> Did you read that article about Wiccans that was posted here? It was
by
BH> some magazine put out by a Christian Church. I thought it was horribly
BH> biased!
Why would a Christian Church be involved with anything Wiccan since they
probably think those who are Wiccan are devil worshippers?
Oh why oh why won't some people get their facts straight?
I am Catholic myself but I don't believe what was said about Wiccans since
I
have a friend who is Wiccan and she taught me a thing or two.
She also respects my religion. So I couldn't ask for more.
Take care,
Pam
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosњMusicњArtњCoding (1:250/1004)
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:25:22
EID:e5f1 20389320
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106c0050
REPLY: 1:358/1 9bf55fd9
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Quentin Fai wrote in a message to Jim Staal:
JS> So? He also said that if a man gets a girl pregnant and then marries
her
JS> it is as if he s**t in his hat and put it on his head. That didn't make
JS> sense to me either, as I married Wilbur back in '66 after she was
JS> preggers...
QF> I thought that true Christians weren't supposed to have pre-marital
QF> sex. You are a true Christian, aren't you?
Oh, it's just a sin. Forget about it, get on your knees, talk to jesus,
and go on with your life.
---
* Origin: Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. (1:152/67)
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: VIRGIN
|Date: 22 Jan 96 04:48:52
EID:0cbd 20362600
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31055956
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890C0E35
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Andrew Masten <=-
-> On 01-18-96 07:16, Andrew Masten got back to David Worrell
DW> Do you have any evidence for creationism? If so, please present
DW> it. If not, kindly stop your whining.
AM> Yes, request denied, no.
DC> Sure you have evidence, fundy. That's why you refuse to share it.
No, David Worrel was just being a jerk.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Chris Leblond
|Sub: hi
|Date: 22 Jan 96 08:17:47
EID:b4e0 20364220
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31055959
REPLY: 1:250/1004 0b0400e4
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Chris Leblond to All <=-
CL> alot, presumably for offending a few people) in which he talks about
CL> the use of magick. what would be the difference in Satanic, and
CL> Wiccan(or any other pagan)magick? And what is the satanic bible?
CL> -!- GEcho 1.00
CL> ! Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosњMusicњArtњCoding (1:250/1004)
The satanic bible is a book written by Anton Lavey. Who is a leader of the
church of satan. He believes Satan is an icon and self pleasure and indulgence
are the best things of life and are represented by Satan.
You may not believe in the christian God. But He calls all witch craft,
divinations, and trafficking in demons an abomination. He forbids this for
our
sake. I say stay away from this junk. You may get a short term gain in return
for grief and misery.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Jesus said "EAT ME!"
|Date: 22 Jan 96 08:38:06
EID:fb01 203644c0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 3105595a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 31028df8
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to J.J. Hitt <=-
JH> Hosts that some churches use, I'll see if I cant build
JH> a pizza on top of them. Or maybe I'll just bust Jesus
JH> up and eat him with soup and chili. If worst comes to
JH> worst (Jesus simply doesn't taste good on anything), then
JH> I'll grind him into crumbs and fry chicken with him.
JH> Chicken ala Jesus.
LB> It won't work, J.J. Until they've been consecrated, all you have is
a
LB> large quantity of tasteless wafers, and overpriced ones at that, no
LB> doubt. Stick with Townhouse crackers. :)
Your just a sick man. Why not have a nice hot cup of pre-biotic soup?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: forgiveness available
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:09:00
EID:991d 20377920
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E25
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 09:35, Marty Leipzig got back to David Worrell
DW> Staal's so far out there he gets his own light cone diagram.
ML> Hmmm...a "dark cone" diagram?
Doens't matter all that much, just as lone as it's cone shaped...
... Paul fell down, broke his crown...and *then* saw a god.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fun in Church...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:11:00
EID:227e 20377960
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E26
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 11:58, Jim Staal got back to Ryan Shaw
What woman-fearing Staal wrote this?
JS> hardly fall into the category of brainwashing. If the dude in the
JS> pulpit makes incorrect statements, they are rejected and he is
RS> It's simple. What you have is a man [or a woman]
JS> Uh...not in _my_ church...
Wgat's the matter, Jimbo? Afraid some woman knows more about your
theology than you do? Or, can't you be lead by a woman, as it
ruins your milk crate image?
... Jim's a man without limits. His stupidity knows no bounds.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:14:00
EID:46f8 203779c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E27
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 13:05, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
Which brain-dead 'English Major' have I reached?
JS> Two things you cannot grasp and haven't a clue:
JS> a. faith
DC> "Believing in what isn't so." Samuel Clemens
JS> It was _you_ who took us from a discussion of 'faith' into the
JS> quotations of Mark Twain.
Gee, or 'erudite' one... Seems like the quotation was right on
the mak, unlike your understanding of its usage.
... The gene pool will be happy if you don't dive in.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:15:00
EID:4372 203779e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E28
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 21:05, Jose Gomez got back to Dan Ceppa
John has a long moustache.
... Yet another disenfranchised quasibiped from the MTV school of debate.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: HA!?
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:18:00
EID:16ca 20377a40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E29
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-19-96 18:13, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
What kindegarten-level or below 'English Major' did I reach?
JS> you are so stinking perfect? Ever look in the mirror and get a glimps
JS> of the angry person who stares back at you? Man!!
DC> Doesn't your god tell you not to judge, lest you be judged?
JS> Please point out at what point in the above post did I 'judge'?
I see that your reading level has regressed yet again.
... Protect children from a faith worse than death; no bible in schools.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Hmmm...Gomez...Bustilloz
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:22:00
EID:f4b5 20377ac0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 18:31, Jim Staal got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> It still might happen -- Gomez told me I shouldn't have said that --
JS> As you and Jose seem to share some sort of kindred spirit ( your names
JS> both end in 'z') perhaps you would do well to be a little easier on
JS> him. He seems to be not such a bad guy...
You should feel so proud! Even more so, if it's only a letter that
you have in common with Jose...
... Von Danikken's new book, "Road Repair Crews of the Gods."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:23:00
EID:e517 20377ae0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 20:46, Jose Gomez got back to Katherine Wintersnight
Do you listen to everything your Rice Krispies tell you to do?
... +Origin: LAP! Network: Going in Circles for Jesus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: MR. MILLER...PROBLEM?
|Date: 23 Jan 96 15:42:00
EID:828b 20377d40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 18:47, Jim Staal got back to Judith Bandsma
Which cerebral cortex chanllenged Staal have I reached this time?
-> Re: MR. MILLER...PROBLEM?
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Al Schroeder <=-
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jim Staal <=-
AS> men) everywhere? And how far from Jesus' teachings that is?
JS> Al, never got any of these messages. What's going on? I wold love to
JS> discuss these issures with you, but all I have is the above.
There's no need for him to do so, as it's quite apparent that you
can't even comprehend how to handle a reply to a simple message
and address it properly.
... Unlike Jim, the 3 Stooges were intentionally stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Staal's bigotry
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:23:00
EID:6363 2037a2e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 13:15, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
Is it Staal the misogynist? Not this time, folks, it's Staal
the bigot.
JS> from him. It is obvious from your own statement that your man (jew
JS> boy whoever) got _his_ ideas from the Bible. That is also where Jesus
You bigotry shows through, quite well.
You are one sick bastard, Staal.
... "Your god has made an ass out of you.": Larry Meyering
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Viability
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:32:00
EID:4704 2037a400
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 00:52, Andrew Masten got back to Katherine Wintersnight
KW> Andrew, please tell us a bit about this discovery. Where was the dig,
KW> who was the archaeologist who made the find? If you will just supply
AM> I first heard this on a T.V. program. The same finding was
AM> mentioned in a Time magazine article. I'm going to see my brother on
ROTF!
AM> Bible, go to any Christian bookstore and get a copy of Evidence that
AM> Demands a Verdict.
Just what pills do you need to take? Or is all of this from
having taken too many wrong pills?
... Unlike Andrew, the 3 Stooges were intentionally stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:36:00
EID:65b8 2037a480
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E2F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 20:57, Jose Gomez got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Gee, you seem rather upset.
JG>
JG> No just tired of ignorant anwers from people.
That's what you get for asking ignorant questions.
JG> rational possibilities. If you have a reason for questioning the
JG> existance of God, then state it. If it is rational, I will research
it
JG> and get back to you.
Provide evidence that your god exists. And, if you are intelligent,
please do not resort to circular reasoning.
... We are the creator. God will be in man's image.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:38:00
EID:65b8 2037a4c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E30
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 21:02, Jose Gomez got back to Dan Ceppa
SA> so, do you get bottom or top in this relationship of yours, or do
JG> you do it on your knees?
JG>
JG> When will you answer with an actual ANSWER?
As you finally seem to have learned to fucking quote, perhaps
we can get started...
JG> words does NOTHING. Don't you understand that MY GOD IS A GOD OF
JG> POWER!!
Big deal. Star Goat ate your god and your god is nothing but
a cloud of methane gas floating around the universe.
JG> No, I know you don't. Perverse darkness is at your feet, and
JG> only bitterness can penetrate your heart.
The, why are you so bitter?
... With a god like Jehovah, who needs a Devil?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:40:00
EID:65b8 2037a500
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E31
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 21:03, Jose Gomez got back to Dan Ceppa
JG> No answers - just ignorance from you, huh?
I see that you forgot to quote yet again, you ignoramus.
... Lemming: The animal fundies resemble the most.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Why
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:41:00
EID:9228 2037a520
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E32
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-21-96 20:21, Steve Wallis got back to Gwenny The Pooh
SW> You cant blame God for the actions of some bozo who claimed to be a
SW> Christian.
Are you a christian?
... Steve's a man without limits. His stupidity knows no bounds.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
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SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 261/1137
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 23 Jan 96 20:59:00
EID:40a9 2037a760
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E33
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 23:24, Steve Wallis got back to Gwenny The Pooh
GtP> that, but HOW did the kangaroo travel all the way from Australia and
GtP> why didn't some of them stick around the ark afterwards.
SW>
SW> How did the natives get there? They must have built a boat an sailed
SW> there along with some animals. Why australia only has kangaroo's, I
SW> cannot say.
You really do believe that bullshit, don't you.
Of course you can't say how the 'roos got to Australia, as it
doesn't fit that neat little pack of lies you call a bible.
... "After all, unlike your god, we are civilized."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:03:00
EID:a8ee 2037a860
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E34
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-20-96 13:00, Sue Armstrong got back to Al Schroeder
SA> as 8 or more young. The odd thing is, wolves in captivity don't
SA> always produce the maxiumum amount of young, even though they tend
SA> to be well-fed. They tend to produce the average of 4-6. And, of
That sounds like that may be somewhat controlled by a view of
what the available range is open to them. The smaller the territory,
the smaller the litter....
... SCAN V1.94 hTe [Glodbreg] Virus was fiound. Deleet? [Yes/jo]
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:05:00
EID:7fa9 2037a8a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E35
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 23:54, Steve Wallis got back to Hector Plasmic
SW> But it says in the Bible "The Lord swore and will not repent"
Rather an inflexible bastard, isn't he. And, what did he
say? "Me damn it"?
SW> The Bible can be truted, but can you be trusted with the Bible?
Instead of truted, it should be truncated, just before the first verse.
... +Origin: ALTERCATION, NETWORK! Beating people up for Jesus!
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Staal's bigotry
|Date: 23 Jan 96 23:35:00
EID:4118 2037bc60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E36
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 13:15, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
Re:Gameliel
JS> So some moron plagiarizes the Bible...so what? Many alleged 'wise' men
DC> That "moron" is probably the most famous and learned scholar of
DC> the Hebrew bible, you stupid twerp.
JS> So? That does not prove as you have stated that Jesus got His ideas
JS> from him. It is obvious from your own statement that your man (jew
JS> boy whoever) got _his_ ideas from the Bible. That is also where Jesus
JS> quoted His from as well. Big Deal. Meaningless...
The only thing not meaningless here, dipdshit, is your fucking
bigotry. You have been shown a reference that pre-dates your
Jesus and you call the author of it a "jew boy". Too bad that
your Jesus was a Jew.
JS> I don't care if they were recorded in rocks on the moon, Jesus (God
They only thing you know of rocks are those that comprise the
space between your ears.
DC> It is he that taught Gamaliel, who is needed in your "NT" to
DC> legitimize your religion.
JS> Evidence?
You are incapable of even understanding basic English, let
alone your bible. Perhaps a Rabbi would give you an answer.
Ask your Rabbi, Jesus, to help you find it.
DC> Rabbi Akiba, in 89 BCE, where it is recorded that, 'Rabbi Akiba said,
DC> "Though shalt love thy neighbor as yourself" is the greatest
DC> principle of the Law.'
JS> Meaningless...
Meaning that you cannot see past the vacuum that resides inside
your ears.
JS> And you, Danno, have continued to excel at putting the cart before
JS> the horsie...
And you are that horses ass, Jimbo. You do your religion real
priud, you little peice of slime.
... I don't envy folks unencumbered by ethics, like Jim.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Leaf me alone.
|Date: 23 Jan 96 23:42:00
EID:226a 2037bd40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 890E0E37
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 01-22-96 11:51, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> weren't doing their job. Seems like the students got really upset
DC> as they all decided to leave from their senseis..
ML> To make matters worse, they invaded a library and took pages
ML> from every book by Maurice (a well know author of children's
ML> works). Yep...they took leaves from the Sendak.
Then there were the astronomers that decided they not only
couldn't get the math right, but it was getting too late...
They look leave from their ascendances.
... I hate you, you hate me, let's throw Barney in the sea...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Scot Bear
|To: All-Concerned
|Sub: bus crash
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:34:51
EID:d1b0 3105aa9c
MSGID: 1:154/69.0 3105aa9c
Update!
The court date was 1/18/96. The City Attorney recommended that they change
my original charge [failure to yield right-of-way]{4 points}
to "wrong turn-signal" with NO points...
My EX-company was abso-fucking-lutely no help in this case and, although
they claimed that they would do everything possible to win the case, after
4 months, they had not received ANY of the Investigation Team's info. [yah,
riiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhtttttt...]
I am now debating two jobs ---one in bus driving --- one in inter- state
trucking.
Will keep you posted on which one I chose since both companies want me...
[Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]
--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
* Origin: STARCOM -- Fundies debunked, free-of-charge! (1:154/69.0)
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|From: Scot Bear
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Buttpimple Satanist Update
|Date: 23 Jan 96 21:44:43
EID:81ff 3105ab5c
MSGID: 1:154/69.0 3105ab5c
> A> See you in Hell!
>
> Today is Day NINE of my Satanic Curse.
>
> Nothing has happened.
I know... *I* got it! ):
--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
* Origin: STARCOM -- Fundies debunked, free-of-charge! (1:154/69.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Book 'em, Dano.
|Date: 23 Jan 96 11:00:50
EID:7dcf 20375800
Steve Quarrella, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said
to Marty Leipzig:
SQ> On 18 Jan 96 10:09am, Marty Leipzig wrote to Steve Quarrella:
ML> Thanks. What did you think of the newspapers and the .tifs?
SQ> I'll get your disks out when I can...sorry about that.
Ahh...you're just hedging. You're afraid to do good works.
I knew it!
SQ> Life has
SQ> become -hectic- around these parts. :-/ The newspapers were neat,
SQ> although I can't read them. Haven't looked at the TIFFs.
They puncture fundies quite nicely. I think you'll like
"dopefish" particularly.
ML> Want a KGB watch?
SQ> If you've got one to spare. :)
ML> I will when I get back in March.
SQ> That would be great! I can wear an EVIL WATCH! EVIL!
Dr. Glodbreg wears one, as do I. When you get yours, we can be
the Trievil Triumvirate.
ML> I took a series of flicks to Russia with me last time...the
ML> Russians liked "Terminator 2" and "2001"; but they absolutely
SQ> 2001 is a favourite. As you might have guessed, I just watched it
SQ> again recently -- I hadn't seen it since the early 80s -- and this time
SQ> managed to sit down and read all three books. Great stuff. Did you
SQ> notice that Arthur C. Clarke was the US President on the cover of TIME
SQ> in 2010? :)
Not Clint Eastwood or Arnie?
ML> LOVED "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". We're sitting around
ML> the den watching the thing (most all the Russians in the office
ML> also speak great English) and tilting a few. When Sir Robin
ML> scampers off, Sergei leans over to Yuri and says "Look. Just
ML> like you when you were supposed to go to Minsk!" Minsk is a
SQ>
SQ> "Oh, let's just kill him. RIGHT!"
"Oh! He's buggered off!'
"Look! He's scampered!"
... Keenly study other languages. Be a cunning linguist.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Help Free Jesse Jones!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 13:29:35
EID:9ef7 20386ba0
Steve Quarrella, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said
to Robert Jackson:
SQ> 21 Jan 96, dixit Robert Jackson ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ> could quote back at HIM. One of my favourites is Cadalso's "Eruditos
a
SQ> la violeta," which mocks overnight scholars at great lengths.
RJ> And Frater Staalius says, "Qui?"
SQ> Please! One language at a time!
Si, oui, da; Comrade Quarrella. Let every ubermensch know that
English is the lingua franca here in El 'Fumarsae.
... Soc et tuum.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Scot Bear
|Sub: WHAT??
|Date: 23 Jan 96 10:56:12
EID:c052 20375700
Scot Bear, who knows now that a "bordello" isn't a Latin depot, said to
Gwenny The Pooh:
> I can't remember my first period...something every woman
> remembers. Sometimes I just sit and try to think of it
> and it's just not there. Sigh.
SB>
SB> Damn. I just found an old kotex and i was wondering if you could tell
SB> me what period it was from... :)
It's intuitively obvious that it's either Menarchsippian or
Oligobscene.
... If you don't like Geology...Upper Jurassic!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Re: MESSIAH GATE 4
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:41:27
EID:d019 20388d20
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066eb3
AS>>> He cites archeological evidence that indicates that the traditional
AS>>> burial place for Peter in Rome does show signs of veneration by the
AS>>> early to mid-second century, and feels there is a strong probability
AS>>> that Peter is buried there.
HP>> Were you aware that Marie Laveau's tomb in New Orleans' St. Louis
HP>> Cemetary #1 is _not_ "inhabited" by the so-called voodoo queen,
HP>> despite the "signs of veneration" that have been placed upon it for
HP>> decades?
AS> Not offhand.
Now you know. Shows that your "signs of veneration" amount to nothing at
all, doesn't it? :-)
AS> that doesn't prove that Marie Laveau didn't exist
Didn't say it did -- simply pointed out that your "traditional burial
place" and "signs of veneration" don't equal "a strong probability" that
"Peter" was "buried there" -- or that he even existed outside the
mythology. Try to pay attention.
--- Tear it up
* Origin: Practice safe religion: say NO. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Re: SPONG ON THE CREEDS 2
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:44:01
EID:eb91 20388d80
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066eb4
HP>> And women love a hero. Often literally enough to lead to
HP>> reproduction. Anyone familiar with the way natural selection works
HP>> (which would seem to let Al off the hook) should be able to figure
out
HP>> an obvious connection. :-)
AS> You think all women are carbon copies of Lois Lane?
Nope. Do you?
AS> but yet you don't see hordes of groupies around a police station or
AS> firehouse.
Can you think of something a bit more irrelevant to add?
Oh, I see you did:
AS> Nor do I notice that policemen or firemen have substantially lower
AS> divorce rates than other men...
ROFL! Al, don't you understand the term "reproduction" as it applies to
the theory of evolution? Have you completely forgotten the topic again?
--- Tear it down
* Origin: 'Tis better to rule in hell than serve in heaven. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Re: Flaming asshole
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:47:18
EID:e527 20388de0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066eb6
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 23f234ae
JJ> Come on, Robert. No need to be afraid.
Then you wouldn't mind answering a simple, non-incriminating question?
:-)
--- Tear a new one
* Origin: Yer mother sews socks that smell. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Christians...together
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:59:34
EID:2f08 20388f60
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066eb9
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 3103b986
JS> In any event, show me where the error is in 'my version' of
JS> Christianity and we'll discuss it from scripture to see where the error
JS> lies, ok?
Wait a minute -- I didn't catch the start of this conversation. Are you
claiming that biblical literalism is the One True Way, and asking for
someone to prove you wrong by citing a literal bible passage?
--- Tear it down
* Origin: "Light another bush. I think I saw a god." (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Re: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:00:36
EID:56c8 20389000
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066eba
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492aa
HP>> "And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw
HP>> no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
HP>> And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink."
HP>> My goodness -- a fall followed by an auditory hallucination, temporary
HP>> blindness and loss of appetite. You don't get symptoms like that by
HP>> falling on your big toe.
HP>> If we're to believe any of this tale, it seems clear that Saul of
HP>> Tarsus fell and hit his head a good lick. Of course, one need not
HP>> believe the tale at all -- it may well be pure myth. However, it's
HP>> interesting that so many conversion stories seem to involve head
HP>> trauma, isn't it? :-)
SW> The Bible can be truted
Do tell. :-)
SW> but can you be trusted with the Bible?
Haven't molested one yet.
History shows that those who can't be trusted with bibles are almost
invariably xtians, you know.
You must be a troll -- you're too stupid to be real.
--- Tear it open
* Origin: Hell is where the fundies are. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Re: MESSIAH GATE 5
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:02:08
EID:6786 20389040
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066ebb
AS>>> Many ghost-sightings are
AS>>> probably grief for the loss of a loved one that might become a
AS>>> hallucination. But EATING with one? Clasping his feet? MULTIPLE
AS>>> witnesses of such?
HP>> Tsk, tsk, Al. Again, you have only anonymously written books dating
HP>> decades after the events claiming those things -- and the eyewitnesses
HP>> claimed to exist are referenced nowhere except in the mythology
HP>> itself.
AS> James was referred to as an eyewitness by Paul.
Who was not himself an eyewitness. Nor did James write anything about
what he may or may not have witnessed. We know he existed, and know he
was an xtian. That's about it. Tsk, tsk.
BTW, I was talking the other day with a family (grandmother,
grandfather, two grown daughters and a grown cousin, a grandson) all of
whom have "witnessed" a ghost and were more than willing to talk about
it. I didn't believe them, either -- no evidence.
--- Tear a new one
* Origin: Nothing stops a fundy. Not even common sense. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: census
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:04:42
EID:78fc 20389080
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066ebc
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890D0E2A
MH> In fact, the Romans *did* require people to travel to their
MH> birthplace in order to register for a census.
Really? Let's look at your "evidence" and see if it backs up your
claim, shall we?
MH> A census edict from Egypt, from 104 a.d., shows that they did just
MH> that. It begins: "Gaius Vibius Maximus, prefect of Egypt, says: The
MH> house-to-house census having started, it is essential that all
MH> persons who for any reason whatsoever are absent from their homes
MH> be summoned to return to their own hearths, in order that they
MH> perform the customary business of registration." ("A History of
MH> Rome Through the Fifth Century, ed. A.H.M. Jones, c. 1970, Harper
MH> and Row.)
What's conspicuously missing from the above quote, Mikey? Perhaps the
word "birthplace" or anything meaning same, hmm? Instead we see the
words "house," "home" and "hearth" (used in the context of "home").
Rather obviously, Mikey, during a census you were required to be at home
to answer the census taker when he came around. Unless you have
something more for us, you're debunked.
--- Hymen
* Origin: Nobody loves a fundy. Least of all his godlet. (1:380/16)
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|From: Hector Plasmic
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: ?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:05:09
EID:9943 203890a0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:380/16
MSGID: Fidonet#1:380/16 31066ebd
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 890D0E31
DC> A choice between "heaven or hell" doesn't leave very much room
DC> for it, does it.
"Why, you can do whatever you like, but if you don't do what _I_ want,
I'll torture you for eternity."
Have a jelly donut. I insist.
--- Tear it up
* Origin: One man's religion is another dog's ma. (1:380/16)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 24 Jan 96 06:35:44
EID:06f8 20383460
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31061a93
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 3103c138
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and John were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
JM> Hi Lynda...
JM> On 17 Jan 96 05:32:39, Lynda Bustilloz penned the following to
JM> Fredric Rice re: #holysmoke
LB> Hey, Fred -- have there been any IRC get-togethers yet?
JM> If anyone wants to do it, let me know. I'm on IRC most nights,
JM> usually on Undernet.
John -- a few of us have been getting together on Undernet in #holysmoke
for
the past few days now. Stop in!
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "He carries it well because he's usually right." -- Riker
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 24 Jan 96 06:38:40
EID:ed53 203834c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31061a94
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492ab
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Steve were killing time yakking about COINCIDENCE SEVEN:
GR> But there is going to come a day when dad won't be there to solve the
GR> problems. As a parent I can do nothing less than prepare him for that
GR> day, and that means teaching him how to solve his own problems. It
GR> hurts to see him fail, it hurts to see him get frustrated, but it is
GR> worth that look on his face when he dusts himself off, with direction
GR> of course, and solves the problems.
GR> It isn't the easy way, but it is the correct way.
LB> George -- you just described perfectly the Christian concept of why
LB> God lets us make harmful mistakes (THE question flying around here
LB> recently). Do you feel you are a bad or neglectful parent when you
let
LB> your child fail? Do you get off on watching him suffer, or does it
LB> bother you as much as it bothers him?
SW> Lynda, what kind of mindframe to you have? From reading the above,
SW> George replied what any loving father would have said in bringing up
SW> ones son to maturity and adulthood. And then you replied with your
SW> idle two bit comment on "Do you get off on watching him suffer?" Why
SW> would you write a sick thing like that? May God provide you with wisdom
SW> and understanding.
Steve, how do I put this gently? You're an idiot! You completely missed
the
point, you're boxing at shadows, and you win the prize for being the only
person in this whole echo who didn't understand what I said. Now, go sit
in
the corner and think about it for a couple of hours -- you're going to smack
yourself silly when you finally figure out what I was referencing there.
Hint -- once you get it, you'll find out you agree with the point I made.
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Dying USUALLY isn't a good career move. Of course, it was for Elvis...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: David Hilling
|Sub: Lynda goes over...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 06:43:21
EID:24a2 20383560
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31061a95
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jim and David were killing time yakking about Lynda goes over...:
JS> See!? That's exactly what I have been talking about: mocking me to the
JS> pagan/atheists, just to 'cuddle up' to them to avoid the type of
JS> beating you see them give me. You hold their jackets, and hand them
the
JS> rocks while they do the stoning!
DH> It worked for Paul.
Et tu?
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Everything free is usually worth exactly what it cost.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Steve Rose
|To: Gary King
|Sub: Proof of Cod.
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:37:26
EID:84b3 20388ca0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1046378a
REPLY: 1:3819/157.0 3103d588
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
GK> Therefore, if the unbeliever were right, the universe would have
GK> already reached heat death. And, as Dr. John Warwick Montgomery
GK> states, "it evidently hasn't because there's enough energy left to
GK> discuss the question". Please consider that and let me know your
GK> conclusion.
Please show us proof of your master Cod and we'll consider it.
Cod be with you till we swim again.
... Cod. Only the best fundy flakes swim in these waters!
--- timEd/2 1.10+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Todd Andlar
|Sub: receiving?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:56
EID:231d 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106accc
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Todd Andlar mumbled "receiving?"
TA> anybody receiving us?
Your message got here.
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he made yet another ham sandwich.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: So -shoot- me!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:56
EID:abc1 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106accd
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Sean McCullough mumbled "So -shoot- me!"
> Well, no.
> There were quite a few Southerners (usually poor, under-educated, and
> not slave-holders) who fought simply because they felt the North had
> invaded their homelands. That's enough to make anyone human fight.
SM> Especially when one remembers that the __manufacture of social
SM> consent__ by the wealthiest classes didn't begin in Noam Chomsky's
SM> time.
SM> And again, the fact that many of these people WERE under-educated DOES
SM> figure in here.
It happens that a lot of the standard rank-and-file types were rurals
at best, and at that time, being a rural was a lot more extreme than
it is in most cases now. I doubt whether most of them knew of the
shenanigans that were being pulled on both sides of the Mason-Dixon
before the war.
> Slavery had nothing to do with their decisions--as they saw it, they
> were taking up arms to defend their homes from foreign invaders.
SM> True. I was speaking more to the level of those who made policy
SM> decisions -- who WERE almost always slaveholders or at least members
SM> of the slaveholding classes -- rather than the poor bastards on BOTH
SM> sides, to who the Civil War was "a rich man's War, but a poor man's
SM> Fight".
This applied even more on the Northern side, where many of the recruits
were appalled because the rich (i.e. anyone who could afford the
exemption fee or provide a substitute) could get out of the draft, hence
the Draft Riot of 1863 in New York. (Incidentally, the mob was mostly
Irish types who set fire to things, destroyed the draft office, burned
down an orphanage for black children, and tried to kill as many blacks
as they could. Reason? Job competition. They were afraid that
emancipation would bring a lot of blacks north to take jobs away from
the Irish and other immigrants.)
However, it is hypocritical of Northerners to run down Southerners for
having practiced slavery in the past. The factories were little better
as there were very few regulations on wages and treatment of workers,
and conditions forced upon many Northern factory workers were little
better (if any better at all) than those forced upon the slaves in
the South.
SM> Also: I have indeed gotten this radical about WAGEslavers, too; your
SM> point about THEM was well-taken.
Which point?
... Do not disturb. Already disturbed.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Altering another quote, scarecrow?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:56
EID:bb72 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106acce
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Marty Leipzig mumbled "Altering another quote,
scarecrow?"
ML> To your insipid egomaniacal rantings? Nope, you're a blue ribbon
ML> winner in that "class"
JS> Thankyou...
ML> Nechevo.
There you go again.
JS> C'mon...out with it...you are Eric and Lyle's long lost bro, aren't
JS> you?
ML> Hardly. Although I can, unlike others, trace my familial
ML> lineage.
And your family tree *does* fork, right?
JS> Sure...common, alright...somewhere in the Slavic countries...
ML> Gad, you're sectarian.
Sectarian? The Episcopalians handle snakes in his neck of the woods, he's
so isolated.
... "Until you stalk and overcome, you can't devour anyone" -- Hobbes
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: alleged 'christians'...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:57
EID:1936 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106accf
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "alleged 'christians'..."
JS> What...the 'sucking up' part?
LB> No, Jim -- the "sucking up" part is so ludicrous that it does nothing
LB> but bring a smile to my face. I've made friends here, to be sure.
And
LB> I don't make my friends pass a theology exam in order to qualify --
JS> I guess it doesn't say 'Making Friends Echo' on the roster. I says
JS> 'Religion Debate Echo'. I have many friends who do not believe. I
JS> have friends who do not believe as I do. Neither of the above condemn
JS> me for what I believe. I do not condemn them for what they do or do
Point being? Most of us here just aren't your friends. As soon as you
learn to accept the fact that just because I'm not your friend does
not automatically mean that I am an enemy who seeks to destroy you and
your children so that your kind will breed no more, then you'll do a
bit better.
JS> not believe. They accept and respect me as a reasonably intelligent
JS> individual possessing above average eloquence and grasp of the
JS> language. Nothing but the total opposite has happened to me here
But you do not portray yourself as such here. Your language strikes me
as stilted (too much effort at impressing people with your vocabulary,
though it seems to be no better than average), and your intelligence
seems to be highly questionable at best, given your adamant refusal
to consider alternate sources of information to your Bible.
JS> the like). In light of the above, you wonder why I reply in the
JS> manner I do three years later? I don't think so.
Would it be overly presumptuous of me to assume that as a Christian,
you would continue to make an effort at civil discussion despite
being frustrated in that aim? That you would "treat your enemies with
kindness, and so heap coals of fire upon their heads"?
... "Avoid making irrevocable decisions while hungry." -- Heinlein
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: HA!?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:57
EID:8a17 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106acd0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "HA!?"
JS> You just _love_ to use that 'h' word, don't you? What makes you think
JS> you are so stinking perfect? Ever look in the mirror and get a glimps
JS> of the angry person who stares back at you? Man!!
DC> Doesn't your god tell you not to judge, lest you be judged?
JS> Please point out at what point in the above post did I 'judge'?
"Angry person" is a nice judgment. You have no real evidence to
support it.
... I see your foot and your mouth have been introduced.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Jeezoids
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:57
EID:e13e 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106acd1
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jose Gomez mumbled "Jeezoids"
JG> It is well documented in ACTS and in the history books. Go read and
JG> study. Try to find the FACTS and you will see that MANY of the Bible
JG> is backed up by history - even told of things only recently found.
Like the flood?
JG> Don't believe what ANYONE claims - only believe what YOU find and
Okay. I have no reason to believe what you're claiming.
JG> experience. Try to find and experience something larger than yourself
JG> and your circumstances. You will find my Lord there.
No, I won't. I've looked for your god, both in moments of safety and
peace and in moments of desperation when I lacked any friend and would
turn to any quarter for solace. Your god was not to be found.
... I had my car's alignment checked. It was chaotic evil.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:57
EID:b445 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106acd2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Michael Hardy mumbled "Thumb-sucking Fundy"
PS> There's plenty of evidence of evolution. I see it happening every day,
PS> and you could see it for yourself. All you need is a largeish sample
PS> of cockroaches and a single brand of bug spray.
MH> That's not macro evolution. It only shows that those roaches
MH> resistant to the poison will survive and the rest won't, making more
MH> resistant roaches to create the next generation. That's a long way
MH> from cockroaches turning into some other type of creature.
No, it isn't macro evolution, but I wasn't claiming that it was. How
would you define cockroaches turning into "some other type of creature,"
Michael? I contend that what is commonly referred to as evolution does
not take place in one big leap as some claim, but in a number of small,
almost insignificant steps.
PS> lying with him"?
AM> The people Israel disposed of to enter the land were
AM> practicing all manner of abominations. How often do you hear people
AM> say why does God allow such evil to exist?
MH> You know, he makes a good point. The heathens are always wailing
MH> about "Why does God permit this evil to go on?" Yet when confronted
MH> with a story of a time when God intervened to stop evil, those same
MH> heathen wail "How could God be so cruel as to kill those people?"
What do infants do that is evil, Michael? Why did God have to kill the
Midianite infants?
... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Mr. Miller...problem?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 17:03:57
EID:812b 20388860
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3106acd3
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Jim Staal mumbled "Re: Mr. Miller...problem?"
SB> Er.......Jimbo.....You're taking on water------------fast!
SB> I would bail-out if I were you.
JS> You...you mean those _empty_ porno conferences on his board? He does
JS> seem to talk a good talk...
Oh, I see. Since Jimmy Swaggart never *actually* touched the prostitute,
he wasn't actually sinning, was he?
... All that glitters has a high refractive index.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 100/525 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411
SEEN-BY: 107/941 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Christmas
|Date: 24 Jan 96 20:57:07
EID:3f22 2038a720
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4090
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Quarrella wrote in a message to Jesse Jones:
JJ> I think all of that is largely true. And I think most of the
JJ> nonbelievers here simply have no clue what a big hole in their lives
JJ> they are leaving by discarding the Christian faith,
SQ> And what hole is that, Jesse?
This really hits a sore spot with me.
His rather blind arrogance when it comes to answers to the universe that
is. He's stuck in the mud as far as beliefs go, so stuck in fact that if
something better would come along and slap him in the face he'd ignore it
because he already has _the_ answer.
---
* Origin: Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. (1:152/67)
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: IMPORTANT MESSAGE!!!
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:07:43
EID:f7b6 2038a8e0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4091
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 890A9ABA
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jose Gomez wrote in a message to All:
JG> Although most of you do not believe in God, and you hate "fundie"
JG> and "jeezoid" claims of talking with God, I want to let you know
JG> that God is VERY real, and He loves you all. One day, face to face,
JG> you will experience that reality. Until then, continue to study and
JG> research the FACTS on the world.
[1] How do you _know_ all of this?
[2] Why are you not content to let others be and go on your merry way in
life?
Has it ever occured to you that other people think differently, feel
differently, etc. and may not be interested in your take on things?
---
* Origin: Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. (1:152/67)
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Satanic Curse Update
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:09:30
EID:7351 2038a920
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4092
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 890A9AB7
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jose Gomez wrote in a message to George Rudzinski:
JG> The wisdom of God is foolishness to men. May you catch what I
JG> have!! : ) : )
If the disease you have were anything other than a religion you'd already
be in a state mental institution.
Amen.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: ?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:10:16
EID:3f7e 2038a940
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4093
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100c13f
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to Dan Ceppa:
SW> God created everthing in perfection and pure Holiness. However, He
SW> created angels and mankind with the ability to choose whether to
SW> to good or evil. It's called freewill.
Impossible. Your god would have to be not all-knowing to allow freewill.
Seeing as you state that he is all-knowing he would know what has happened,
what is happening, and what will happen. One would then come to the conclusion
that since your god already knows what you are going to do, the choice has
been made already.
If you deny this, then you contradict your very own godhead.
---
* Origin: Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. (1:152/67)
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:11:55
EID:9f13 2038a960
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4094
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100c140
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to Dave Ray:
SW> Why would you say that? Do you know every single preacher? Not
SW> every one is money hungry. If they ask for a contribution, its
SW> probally becuase they need it.
Of course...for the three car garage.
---
* Origin: Yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye. (1:152/67)
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Agnostic(ism?)
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:12:21
EID:a6fa 2038a980
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4095
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100c141
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to Pam Gray:
SW> It is written:
SW> "Be happy, young man, while you young, and let your heart give you
SW> joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and
SW> whatsoever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God
SW> will bring you to judgment" Ecclesiastes 11:9
It is written:
"Es war an einem Sonntagvormittag im schoensten Fruehjahr. Georg Bendemann,
ein junger Kaufmann, sass in seinem Privatzimmer im ersten Stock eines der
niedrigen, leichtgebauten Haeuser, die entlang des Flusses in einer langen
Reihe, fast nur in der Hoehe und Faerbung unterschieden, sich hinzogen."
Amen.
SW> "The heart is decietful above all things, and desperately wicked:
SW> Who can know it? I have the Lord search the heart, I try the reins,
SW> even to give every man accourding to the fruit of his doings."
SW> Jeremiah 17:9-10
It is written:
"Aus den groesseren Staedten -- Warschau und Lodz mit ihren Gettos und Krakau,
das laut Frank in absehbarer Zeit =judenfrei= sein sollte -- wanderten juedische
Bewohner ab aufs Land, um in der baeuerlichen Bevoelkerung unterzutauchen."
Amen.
SW> "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of
SW> life." Proverbs 4:23
It is written:
"She thought that landing on the island would make the nightmares stop."
Amen.
SW> "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within
SW> me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from
SW> me. Restore me to the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing
SW> spirit, to sustain me."-Psalm 51:17
It is written:
"Have you seen the little piggies
crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in."
Amen.
SW> Take it easy guy, and Godbless...,
And so it is.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Christian Miller's Christianity
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:21:52
EID:8d66 2038aaa0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4096
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100c143
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to J.J. Hitt:
SW> Do you really get your kicks trying to mock Christ and His church?
SW> Who is able to mock Christ? You obviously think you are. You will
SW> reap what you sow...
He was mocking Christian Miller who claims to be a christian.
SW> Take it easy J.J. and Godbless
You threaten him with damnation in the first part of your post and then
end it with a hollow saying. How very nice of you. I'm sure it means a
lot.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:23:00
EID:8b06 2038aae0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4097
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3100c144
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to David Worrell:
SW> I myself wouldnt guy. And neither would God. God loves all of His
SW> children and never would torture any of them.
Why does your god starve people in Africa?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Todd Andlar
|Sub: receiving?
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:26:19
EID:e078 2038ab40
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4098
REPLY: 1:250/1004 09840135
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Todd Andlar wrote in a message to All:
TA> anybody receiving us?
Nope. God must of had a brain fart.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Chris Leblond
|Sub: hi
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:27:44
EID:16b7 2038ab60
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e4099
REPLY: 1:250/1004 0b0400e4
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Chris Leblond wrote in a message to All:
CL> does anyone here believe in the existance of other gods (as opposed
CL> to the 1 judaeo-christian god). I've been going to a Wiccan
CL> church for a while now (save the last month or so), and am not
CL> entirely sure what their beliefs are. so, I'm kind of in a
CL> mid-state where I'm not sure what to believe. I know I dont
CL> believe in christianity, or any of its father-offshoot religions.
CL> but I believe that the christian god might exist, though not
CL> singly and all powerfully. would I still be considered Wiccan?
Just worship the goddess with the nicest ass and you'll be safe.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Fun in Church...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:28:55
EID:069c 2038ab80
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3103046e
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Lynda Bustilloz wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
RS> It's simple. What you have is a man [or a woman] standing in front
of
RS> people telling them what to believe. The same could be said for
RS> certain prof's at the university. They're both forms of brainwashing.
RS> Not all prof's fall into that category however.
LB> Nor do all pastors. :)
Perhaps, but the very different nature of going to church compared to going
to a lecture must be considered. In learning the one who questions the
prof and the material the most learns the most. During the years that I
sat in church not one person ever stood up and asked a question.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Zayd Allebban
|Sub: The Ultimate Shit List - Part 1.
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:52:39
EID:f58c 2038ae80
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409b
REPLY: 0019eba9
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Zayd Allebban wrote in a message to David Worrell:
-> Does Allah ever have to take a shit?
-> Does he have to piss?
ZA> David, you're real funny. Since you obviously don't believe in God
ZA> while I do, you stay with your beliefs and I'll stay with mine. I
ZA> haven't mocked your beliefs, so you better not mock mine. I won't
ZA> stand for this blasphemy and if you don't want to carry on a
ZA> civilized discussion, I don't want to hear from you again.
Does Allah allow you to laugh?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fun in Church...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:55:25
EID:ed7d 2038aee0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409c
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3103f9bd
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jim Staal wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
JS> Hmmm...in my church there is expounding from the word. Would
JS> hardly fall into the category of brainwashing. If the dude in the
JS> pulpit makes incorrect statements, they are rejected and he is
JS> called to task.
RS> It's simple. What you have is a man [or a woman]
JS> Uh...not in _my_ church...
What's wrong [and I'm assuming that you're speaking of a female minister
here...correct me if I'm wrong] with having a female minister?
RS> It's simple. What you have is a man [or a woman] standing in
RS> front of
RS> people telling them what to believe.
JS> That is where we disagree, Ryan. The preacher is not telling us
JS> what to believe. We believe what is in the Bible. That is plain
JS> for all to see. The preacher's job is to exhort us to put it into
Do you ever stand up and ask questions?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundamentalists R Us
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:56:54
EID:3dc8 2038af00
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409d
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3103f9be
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jim Staal wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
RS> What's wrong with a little research? You could actually figure out
RS> that you were wrong about some things.
JS> Agreed. I just do not necessarily have the desire or the time. I
JS> do, however, read what those more educated in given areas have to
JS> say on these topics here, and take note of what they have to say.
But you have enough time for your religion?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Drink it, Ken
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:57:23
EID:332e 2038af20
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409e
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492ac
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
SW> May Christ give you understanding and wisdom.
That, my friend, does not come from some dead guy. It comes from the buzzing
neurons between my ears.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:58:34
EID:f16c 2038af40
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e409f
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 890C0E14
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jose Gomez wrote in a message to Katherine Wintersnight:
JG> God created Satan as a worshipper. Satan fell into pride. That was
JG> HIS choice. God has His appointed time to do what He has to do. You
JG> will be a part of that....hopefully, in time, on HIS side.
Where can I get some of the drugs you're taking?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Holiday Greetings...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:59:04
EID:567c 2038af60
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e40a0
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492ad
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to J.J. Hitt:
SW> Read your Bible for proof of God.
The Bible is the word of god because god says so.
It doesn't work that way.
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Jose Gomez
|Sub: Jeezoids
|Date: 24 Jan 96 21:59:51
EID:aecf 2038af60
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e40a1
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 890C0E15
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Jose Gomez wrote in a message to Katherine Wintersnight:
JG> Don't believe what ANYONE claims - only believe what YOU find and
JG> experience.
Oh, so when the state trooper pulls you over and informs you that the road
ahead is blocked due to heavy snow and fallen trees you just tell him to
go take a flying leap because you want to find out for yourself?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: White-lighter Religions
|Date: 24 Jan 96 22:02:08
EID:89bc 2038b040
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 106e40a2
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 310492b0
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
RS> I choose not to go to hell.
RS> Gee, that was easy.
SW> If you really dont want to go to hell just say this small prayer:
[snip]
Ok, did the prayer thing. Nothing happened.
SW> If you just prayed that prayer sincerly, it says in the Bible that
SW> God throws your sins as for as east is to west and will not
SW> remember it no more.
Oh shit, I shouldn't have said that prayer just quite yet. I had plans
to rape the women living in the next five blocks. After I was finished
doing that, I would have obviously had to kill them. Finally I would just
burn down the whole damn place to get rid of the evidence.
I would then walk into the park, say the prayer thingy, and be saved. Wow,
this is great.
I've written the prayer down. I might need it later tonight.
SW> It also say's that when you accept Christ as
SW> your Saviour, you become a child of God and the evil one cant touch
SW> you.
So there are no christians that are murdered? Why doesn't god protect them?
SW> Try getting in touch with some local Christian churches in your
SW> area and grab a Bible to meditate on.
There's a bunch of 'em around here -- too many in fact. I've been there,
done that, got the t-shirt.
I've got a few questions for you however. Where do you get off believing
that you have the answer to everything? What makes your belief system any
more correct than the belief system of someone else? Why do you close your
mind to other possibilities?
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: more Dan A. Post
|Date: 24 Jan 96 23:01:49
EID:48ed 2038b820
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 10701460
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31036b87
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Steve Wallis wrote in a message to David Worrell:
SW> It says in the Bible that "Andhe causeth all, both small and great
SW> to recieve a mark "IN" there right hand, or "IN" there forheads;
SW> and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or
SW> the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom.
SW> Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for
SW> it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore
SW> and six (666)." Revelation 13:16-18
SW> Sounds kinda like a credit card idetification mark dont it? Kinda
SW> funny that it says this will happen in the Bible and governments or
SW> pushing a cashless society eh? These ARE the last days my
SW> friends...
You've got it all wrong.
It's the telepathic shadow government that you have to watch out for. They
are overtly connected to the twelve Jewish bankers that live in a cave in
Iceland. They pull the strings and instruc the telepathic shadow government
to implant thoughts within us. The problem is, we don't realize it...not
yet at least.
SW> If someone takes the mark, they are automatically going to hell and
SW> will not find forgiveness or mercy.
The telepathic shadow government doesn't deal with marks. All that stuff
is for is to fool you. This way, the TSG has easy access to your grey matter.
---
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|From: Mike Zimmerman
|To: Maria Russell
|Sub: Nazirite
|Date: 25 Jan 96 06:37:43
EID:ee0a 203934a0
-=> Quoting Maria Russell to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Regarding ---- on 07 Jan 96 04:08:19 <-=
MR> Now if you hadn't chopped up my quote you would have known that it was
MR> the Nazarite that had the long hair and abstained from wine. But Jesus
MR> was a NAZARENE. That means he was from Nazareth. A Nazarite belonged
MR> to a sect. I know you don't believe what I am saying so check it out
MR> for yourself.
I am not sure, but I believe that the spelling was "Nazirite", for those
Jews under a vow not to cut their hair or to drink wine. Of course the
Hebrew of the time did not have the vowels, but I would assume that
someone has some kind of warrant for that spelling. Examples of
Nazirites in the Bible include Samson, John the Baptist, and St. Paul on
his second missionary journey. There is no mention made that Jesus ever
took the vow of a Nazirite. Since He was reported to drink wine, it may
be inferred that He did not.
... Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood it's ground.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: John Prewett
|To: Hector Plasmic
|Sub: HI
|Date: 24 Jan 96 15:57:08
EID:9ca5 20387f20
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD2C0754
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
JP> If there is no God who distinguishes "good" and "evil"
HP> We do, of course.
Result- "might makes right" - "law of the jungle"
WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: John Prewett
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: LYNDA GOES OVER...
|Date: 24 Jan 96 18:02:22
EID:0426 20389040
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012@fidonet AD2C24AE
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
We can
AS> disagree without getting disagreeable. Now some Christians I violently
AS> disagree with...Grigor-Scott I cannot ABIDE for his hate-mongering
AS> antisemetic paranoia, and although I like John Prewitt more than
AS> Grigor-Scott, I make no secret that
AS> I think his anti-Catholicism is bigotry .......
And I know that your inability to see [or admit seeing]
the significance of a con-artist in Rome claiming to lead
and RULE Jesus's Church
[claim taken seriously by millions for centuries]
shows your extreme spiritual retardation or corruption,...
but it's not my job to judge which problem you have.
AS> ...... and his JFK-is-Antichrist idea is laughable.
Demonstrating your pathetic blindness regarding God's Revelation,
which you share with avowed heathens,....
like most puffed up [with hot air] liberal "christians."
[Your not agreeing about JFK is completely understandable,
but if you knew much about and believed the Revelation,
then you would be wise enough to know the JFK prediction
is not really "laughable."
It's "laughable" only to people who are retarded re the Revelation.
IOW- to heathens and modern liberal "christians."
You're presently on about the same level as a scripturally literate
Jew of Jesus's generation who contended that Jesus's claim of
fulfilling the "Messiah" prophetic description was "laughable."
The Vatican obviously uniquely fulfills God's Revelation description
of the "Great Whore,", but that fulfillment is invisible
to man-pleasing modern protestants.
Just like Jesus's fulfillment was invisible to status quo loving
Israelites of that generation.
And Christian
AS> Miller has been shown to be a hypocrite. The rest I try to at least
AS> try to get along with. Jim I think has been convincingly shown to use
AS> several aliases and recently, poor taste in dealing with the matter
of
AS> Shelby's father-in-law. One has to be careful as a believer as to not
AS> get so overtaken with plausible theories which show erudition without
AS> either common sense or faith. That SOUND good but aren't. There was
a
AS> novel I once read called THE DAMNATION OF THERON WARE---about a
AS> backwoods preacher called Theron Ware who got exposed to a lot of
AS> fashionable Biblical pseudotheories, and lost all his zeal and faith,
AS> becoming only interesting in sophisticated but ultimately shallow
AS> theories about what "the Bible REALLY meant". He lost the childlike
AS> (which does not mean child-intellect) acceptance of God. There is
AS> certainly that danger. But I don't think Dick has crossed that line,
AS> and I don't doubt his Christian convictions as a Lutheran minister.
AS> He's going to get into enough REAL fights on this echo. No use adding
AS> to it.
AS> Lynda and yourself just got over a long period of sniping at
AS> each other, and I was SO glad to see it stop...I don't want it to
AS> start all over again. I think Dick shows some real promise in some
AS> areas, and it would be interesting to have a professional minister
AS> here. Perhaps we could give him more of a chance, okay? Now I've
AS> probably isolated myself from BOTH camps, and everyone hates my guts.
AS> But I felt it had to be said.
Re.Lynda- Maria Russell never launched any personal slanders
to deserve the following from Lynda to heathens ]
Subject: Just a thought Date: 12/15/95 18:12:58 [Re Maria Russell]
LB> Richard and Maria were killing time yakking about Just a thought:
RM> Why is it always an act of God when something bad happens but just
RM> luck when something good happens. (don't answer, it's just a thought.)
MR> A very good thought...I wonder if anyone seriously will ponder it?
MR> (don't answer, it's just a thought)
LB> Maria, have you seriously pondered anything of more importance than
LB> what shade of nailpolish will match your outfit in recent years?
------------------------ SNIP --------------------------
Subject: imploring/Promise Keeper To: Lynda Bustilloz From: Fredric Rice
Date: 1/16/96 14:25:00 [re Maria Russell]
KW>