God Damned Fundies!
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Exclude the unaffected
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:15:18
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a3e
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 311a6475
PID: FM 2.02
> JS> (Gal 1:9 NIV) As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody
> JS> is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him
be
> JS> eternally condemned!
> SA> Nifty. Since I accept the writings of Lao Tzu (which can be
> SA> considered "good news" - ie, "gospel"), therefore any Christian who
> SA> preaches to me the bible is condemned. Har.
> MH> You don't seriously think that's what it means, do you?
> MH>
> MHo> Well, not to mince words, but it is the literal gist of it.
> MH>
> MHo> seriously implying that it only applies to Christians, well,
> MHo> because they're the 'only true faith'?
> MH> I'm saying it applies only to Christians because it was a message
> MH> aimed directly at Christians and no one else.
> MHo> So, you're a Really, True Christian, AND prejudiced. Nice.
> MH> Think about it, Mark. The letter was from a what? Christian
> MH> evangelist, right! And it was sent to who? A Christian church, right.
> MH> So the message was meant for what group?
> MHo> That you can say that with a straight face is a mystery to me,
> MHo> Michael. Look: It was a letter from a what? A Christian
> MHo> evangelist. It was sent to who? A Christian church. So, it can be
> MHo> applied to who? Christians. So, the next time a, what? Christian
> ...
> MHo> preaches to me, I'll proclaim (Gal 1:9 NIV). You said yourself,
it
> MHo> only applies to Christians. That's fine; I'll use it on
> Christians.
> MHo> They're the REALLY preachy ones, anyway.
lb> Just trying to keep the definitions straight, Fred. Based on
lb> this, since Mike is keeping nonbelievers out of his "fantasy
lb> construct",
No he doesn't. Hardy include the unaffected in with his religious beliefs.
He believes that everyone "sins" -- a religious construct. He believes
that "sinners" (of which he includes the unaffected) are capable of going
to "hell" -- another religious construct.
You're trying to claim that because he excludes the unaffected in one aspect
of his occultism, it let's him off the hook for all the others.
The definition holds.
~*~ Egypt was trouble by the horrible asp, yeah yeah yeah yeah,
Mister Charles Darwin had the gall to ask - R.E.M.
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Violating physics -- use a condom. Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:18:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a3f
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 dd010612
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Your own words evidence your lack of knowledge in reguards even the
FR> simplest of physics, John. You're searching vainly for deities in
>> A more unperceptive and incorrect prejudicial
>> assessment would be hard to imagine.
FR> For you, perhaps. You want to pretend that you're ahead of science
FR> and that the rest of the world will eventually catch up to you. You
FR> fancy yourself as another Galileo.
jb> Ah. That particular form of erroneous mental garbage is
jb> called, by cognitive scientists, "jumping to conclusions."
You're only being dishonest to yourself, John. Like any Creationist, you
pretend that science will eventually catch up with you. You're what Richard
Feynman often complained about.
It's pretty pathetic, actually. You don't understand a science and you
know you never will so you concoct a fiction and pretend everyone else is
wrong and will catch up to you. Pathetic and lazy.
~*~ I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a Biblical lobotomy.
- David Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tim Pauly
|Sub: Revised (by ME) HS list
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:19:55
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a40
REPLY: 1:2613/377 56b99b50
PID: FM 2.02
TP> a) I believe in the God of the Bible.
mg> Can you present non biblicval evidence that your god is real?
tp> No need to.
Sure you do. The Christanic mythologies are proven anonymous forgeries
frought with hundreds of contradictions and scientific errors. If you want
to demand that there are deities hopping around, you need to present some
evidence.
~*~ What is so amazing about a baby being born from a virgin? - James Conwell
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Ignorance
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:20:59
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a41
PID: FM 2.02
> Everything God wants us to know and how He wants us to conduct
> ourselves has been clearly spelled out for us.
Before you can claim what your deity constructs can do and what they can
not do, you need to present evidence for the existance of your deity constructs.
Have any? Any at all?
~*~ My self I would hump a camel before a Jewish female. - Jim Lammon
As if either would have you. -- Robert Curry
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: hey, Hitler was one of you
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:21:41
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a42
REPLY: 3:711/933 3117cd7a
PID: FM 2.02
FR> If you're a nazi, yes.
ags> Are you a Nazi? I should think that is nothing to be proud of.
Hitler was a Christian. Get over it.
~*~ All the gut-wrenching irony of America's low prioritization
of education is present in your origin line. - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: HI, Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:22:45
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a43
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b0270
PID: FM 2.02
MB>> Then how come Jehovah, in the first person, yet, bragged about
MB>> having created it (in Isaiah)?
SW>> Where does it say that Marilyn?
FR> Another Christanic doesn't even bother reading his mythologies.
dw>> Try reading this:
dw>> "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL:
dw>> I the LORD do all these things."
dw>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ - Isaiah 45:7
FR> A buck says the Christanic will demand you're "twisting god's words."
km> Very Good you've learned to read the Bible.
It's too bad David didn't bet otherwise I would be a buck richer!
~*~ If I repent anything, it will probably be my good behavior. - Marty
Leipzig
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Christian blow jobs, Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:23:36
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a44
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b032e
PID: FM 2.02
BH>> CHRISTIAN HORIZONS
KW>> Looks fine to me. If the organization is owned and run by
KW>> christians why shouldn't they be able to choose who they
KW>> want as employees?
FR> But then Ken is a bigot.
km> Isn't that kinda like the pot calling the kettle burnt?
No. You're a hate-filled bigot who would murder your own son. You said
so yourself.
~*~ I wonder if Jesse would do jury duty, or does being a lawyer
disqualify one for a position that requires honest and unbiased
judgement of evidence? - jonny vee
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: HEY, I'M NEW, Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:24:56
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a45
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b03ff
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Why don't you and Al just do what every other Christanic cultist
fr> does and kill each other, allowing your intellectual superiors
fr> to talk rationally among themselves?
km> Be happy to allow my intellectual superiors to talk rationally
km> amongst themselves, unfortunatly, I don't find any around here.
That's because your critical thinking facilities have been damaged by your
need to believe in the occult. It would be a great service to humanity
were warring Christanic factions to quietly solve their occultism someplace
without involving innocent people.
~*~ Personally, I vote that there be fines and arrests for consenting
adults if they are not married--heterosexual or otherwise. - Mark Fox
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Free Jim Staal!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:25:34
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a46
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b0448
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I wonder if Jim Staal _can_ be freed from his hatred and bigotry.
fr> He doesn't seem to want to escape Christianity any more.
km> No true Christian would......
Which deserves a great measure of pity.
~*~ I am free to think any way I please. I Corinthians 6:12. - Jim Staal
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Gods, not god, staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:26:44
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a47
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b04b1
PID: FM 2.02
CM>> It's not very smart to worship a rock.
fr>> Whereas you worship paper.
FR> So much for your Christanic lie about fleeing this forum in fear.
cm>> How do I worship paper?
FR> You're not a Christian so you only pretend to worship paper.
km> From all that you've said to others and myself Fredric, specifically
km> about who was a Christian and what that so called Christian did, I
km> doubt very much if you would know a Christian if you fell over one.
Anyone who claims to believe in the Christanic mythologies is a Christanic
death cultist, Ken. That includes your fellow death cultist Adolf Hitler.
Hitler was one of yours. Get over it.
~*~ ...to debate Christianity does not mean that I am here
to learn any truth contrary to my beliefs. - Kenneth Mcabee
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: About Staal!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:27:53
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a48
REPLY: 1:271/460 311b04dc
PID: FM 2.02
cm>> Here I thought no one loved me anymore! You guys are just
cm>> talking ABOUT me instead of TO me. Gee, I get left out of
cm>> my own conversations!!!
FR> We've figured out that you're not a Christian.
km> Another judgement by Fredric Rice.
The guy forgot to remove his sex chat forums on his BBS before someone from
this educational forum went and did a little online investigations. He's
not a Christanic death cultist.
And you're a false Christian because you won't drink up.
~*~ Atheism is no more a religion than abstinence is a form of drinking.
- Marilyn Burge
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Laser tech
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:31:26
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a49
REPLY: 1:157/200 4a02077c
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Hubble already is unnecessary. The CCD telecopes in Hawii are
FR> capable of Hubble-level deep-space astronomy. The software which
FR> runs on the data does exclude atmospheric distortion entirely and the
FR> CCD scopes are often coupled to the DSN to provide extreme VLBI
FR> astronomy.
kdm> You sure about this? I know the Armed Forces have some
kdm> groundbased telescopes that make the Hubble (visually) look
kdm> like a toy, but I wasn't aware the new telescopes on Hawaii
kdm> were working that well.
I believe that telescope power is measured in terms of resolution ability.
If that's the case then the new type of telecops in the Hawaian Island chain
are equal to the task of Hubble. It might be that what I saw was when they
were used in VLBI observations using the Deep Space Network.
~*~ Good grief. Guess he's never read the bible he is thumping. - David
Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Staal's not quality fundy #holysmoke
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:38:27
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4a
REPLY: 1:157/200 4a0207af
PID: FM 2.02
dw> I think we're finally making a dent in their reserves. Give us
dw> two hundred more years, and we'll be facing "Tim Allen" grunters.
FR> Yes, I think that all of FidoNet has learned about the hurtful truth
FR> here at HolySmoke and perhaps Undernet will learn the hurtful truth
FR> about #holysmoke as well.
kdm> After last night, who knows?
}:-} I was mistaken (first time!) There are enough nuts on IRC to keep
us employed reguardless of whether everyone gets the word or not.
~*~ Try again, Kim. Only next time, try the truth instead of a lie.
- David Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:40:17
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4b
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 11c08f7e
PID: FM 2.02
> Please send in your entries!
> The Unofficial Holysmoke Pick Yer Poison List
Fredric Rice Goateee StarGoat's Own Diet Coke
~*~ "Jews are only good for one thing, bringing in as a sacrifice
unto the Lord." - Pat Robertson.
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: Oppose the Religios Right
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:41:28
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4c
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 11c08f85
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Found this item in alt.society.labor-unions; thought it might be of
FR> interest here, so I'm posting it for everyone's information.
rs> Why are you falling for this liberalist crap!? Can't you see that it
rs> doesn't matter if we have Jesus H. Christ in office just as long as
I
rs> have lower taxes to buy more shit.
}:-} Yep. I'm all for increased intolerance, hatred, and bigotry provided
my taxes go down.
~*~ The human mind treats a new idea the way the body
treats a strange protein; it rejects it. - P. B. Medawar
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: hi
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:45:30
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4d
REPLY: 1:272/99 0013e3d3
PID: FM 2.02
PS> He also forbids the wearing of mixed-fiber clothing and males
PS> shaving their faces. Do you do either one?
AM> No. I'm under the new covenent, not the old. The N.T. also
AM> forbids witch craft ect. ect.
Which means that your deity constructs have nothing wrong with homosexuality.
~*~ I found it! I found Magog! It's in the province of Quebec ..
in the 819 area code. - Sue Armstrong
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Micharl Hardy
|Sub: children
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:49:27
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4e
REPLY: 1:272/99 0013e40e
PID: FM 2.02
MH> Children who haven't yet learned enough in order to *knowingly*
MH> choose right and wrong are not held responsible by God, in my
MH> belief. Sin has to be a concious choice, and it can only be a
MH> concious choice for someone who knows enough to make such a choice.
According to your own superstition, then, Christianics spreading the cult's
dogma are responsible for everyone who "sins."
~*~ I believe that God does inflict His presense upon the earth.
- Steve Bedard
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: n gods
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:54:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a4f
PID: FM 2.02
bj> You think of me as a foolish man because of my belief in the
bj> bible and God Jesus Christ?
Anyone who believes in the unevidenced is pretty much a fool of some kind,
Brad. The degree of rabidity is a broad spectrum, of course.
~*~ AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it Is God's
punishment for the society that Tolerates Homosexuals. - Jerry Falwell
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: All the Gods' mythologies
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:55:04
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a50
PID: FM 2.02
bj> Ryan if you would have taken the time yourself to read
bj> the bible you would have found out that what this fellow
bj> wrote in that book was false.
If you would read the mythologies _once_, you would see that the myths are
fabrications frought with contradictions and scientific errors.
~*~ "Who beta tested Preparations A through G?" - Marilyn Burge
"Some assholes." - J.J. Hitt
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tim Pauly
|Sub: HS list
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:01:47
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a51
REPLY: 1:2613/377 56baa32c
PID: FM 2.02
>> Amazing how millions can have an equally fulfilling life
>> without wasting their time worshipping those delusional
>> fiction-friends, huh. Gee...makes you wonder how they can
>> enjoy life without suffering the way you must do. Wonder
tp> Where do you keep getting this idea that I'm somehow "suffering".
Your inability to think critically tends to support the supposistion.
~*~ I've noticed the distinct lack of civility in here. - Rick Mcfarlane
So what did you expect, a fucking door prize? - Robert Curry
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rodney Green
|Sub: Religion Debate?
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:02:18
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a52
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 311e54a0
PID: FM 2.02
rg> Why debate about religion when we could talk about Jesus?
~*~ You think I wanted to appease you? To endear myself to the heathen
hooligans who patrol this smelly place? - Jesse C. Jones (HolySmoke forum)
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Holy Technology!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:03:51
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a53
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 311de1b1
PID: FM 2.02
Don Martin said:
> The 1846 Scientific American, citing C.G. Gilroy, "The Art of
> Weaving," mentions an improved Jacquard loom capable of "working an
> unlimited variety of figures and colors, as would appear from the
> fact that the night dress of Pope Boniface, which was woven in one
> of these machines, contained 276 different colors, so arranged and
> blended to display the likenesses of 276 heretics, each suffering
> under some species of torture different from any of the others."
>
> --"50, 100 and 150 Years Ago," Scientific American,
> February 1996, p 12.
>
> It takes a lotta stitchin' to give a Pope sweet dreams . . .
And Christians demand they didn't join a death cult.
~*~ No new life forms are appearing anywhere in the world that came from
other life forms (i.e. rabbits becoming dogs or whatever)
- Ray Speakmon
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Eric Hendrix
|Sub: Ignorance
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:12:43
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a54
REPLY: 1:289/80 311F052D
PID: FM 2.02
eh> I know I'm going to get slammed right and left for this one,
That's a variation of the argument known as "poisoning the well."
eh> I feel there is no need for name-calling,
eh> blasphemous (to Christianity) replies.
"Blasphemy" is a religious belief not evidenced in reality. As such the
better educated are incapable of "blasphemy."
~*~ Amazing how Hawking in his wheelchair has
journeyed farther than you with your legs. - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Eric Hendrix
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:15:18
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a55
REPLY: 1:289/80 311F052D
PID: FM 2.02
eh> Christianity has been called a cult. Well, it is similar,
eh> only we don't go out and kill people.
My guess is you haven't learned any world history. The Christanic death
cult is the single worse deadly tyranny ever created by men. Christanics
have murdered more people than any other cult or any other ideology or natural
disaster save epidemic.
_Learn_ a little about the death cult, Eric.
~*~ Those menacing atheists with their dangerous questions
are coming! Run for your lives! - Robert Curry
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF update, Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:17:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a56
REPLY: 1:246/15 3117F7EE
PID: FM 2.02
sw> Focus on the Family
FR> Focus on the Family is a charasmatic cult. I worked inside of their
FR> cult at Pomona, California, for several months and learned first hand
FR> how evil they and Christianity truely is.
FR>
FR> Try picking your masters a little better, cultist.
sw> Focus on the Family is a well respected Christian organization.
So was Jim Jones, David Duke, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts,
David Koresh, Adolf Hitler... The Focus on the Family cult is led by a
charasmatic cult leader and its ideologies are those of hatred and intolerance,
fear and manipulation, just as Marion "Pat" Robertson's cult is.
~*~ I think this is plenty of evidence backing up my hypothesis that
your family tree does not fork. - Ryan Shaw
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Ignorance
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:18:34
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a57
PID: FM 2.02
> God used this youngster to bring to her the realization that He
> still had service for her to perform, and that her situation was not
Before you can demand what your deity constructs have done and what they
have not done, you must present evidence for the existance of your deity
constructs. Otherwise you're putting the cart before the horse.
Have any evidence? Any at all?
~*~ Did you know that whiskey was made to keep the Irish
from ruling the world? -
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Fun-dee Staal pays church
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:20:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a58
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 11804274
PID: FM 2.02
SR> Yes...as they go hand over hand...twisting the
SR> guilt-ridden cork screw upon their sheeple.
JS> Evidence?
sr> You could call it that if you so wish. I prefers to call it extortion.
FR> I wonder what percentage of tithes end up defending
fr> lawsuits and paying damages for rape.
sr> By the very priests who steal it from
sr> their sheeple-flock in the first place!
It's quite the scam, isn't it? Christianity fells fear and then sells the
cure -- only to use the money to inflict inhuman tyrannies upon the populace
which increases the misery of the populace turn to them in the first place.
If it wasn't for my high ethics and my higher morality, I would LOVE to
get into as good a money-making deal as that.
~*~ I wet the bed. Often. What can I do?
Will prayer help me? - Kirby Nixon
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: FOF cult
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:21:47
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a59
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 11804282
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Try picking your masters a little better, cultist.
SW> Focus on the Family is a well respected Christian organization.
sr> HAhahaha!!! They've sure got you trained well enough.
It's amazing. Followers of the Jim Bakker cult and the Jimmy Swaggart cult
say exactly thye same thing as this cultist.
~*~ Staal is a prime example of someone who uses
Jesus to excuse his behaviour. - Steve Quarrella
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Staal IGNORANCE 5:3-11
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:22:51
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a5a
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 312002a6
PID: FM 2.02
FR> wish it didn't take so long for the technology to trickle down.
fr> I mean, where's _MY_ Toyota-mounted Sidewinder missles?
ps> Might be handy for clearing up those traffic jams.
FR> More like making them worse. }:-}
ps> Not if you use enough of them often enough.
You run the risk of digging up the roads to the point where they're not
driveable. }{:=}
~*~ Do you have a single SHRED OF EVIDENCE?? Or are you just going
to spew scripture like a busted shitpipe? - Gary Glunz
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: F=MA (every time) (Unless you're Staal inwhich case science isn't.)
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:24:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a5b
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 312002a7
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Yesterday David and I went to see why my newest purchase is taking so
FR> long to deliver and the guy we went to see had an old rifle which
FR> shoots one-inch projectiles. It's classed as a relic and it's mounted
FR> as one.
ps> Sheesh. How old is old?
This one was about 300 years old. I asked the guy if it was a replica and
he told me that it is an antique.
ps> Not going to get any letters of marque
ps> if we get into a war, are you?
FR> I'm thinking about freeing Cuba so I
fr> can go in their with investment dollars.
ps>
Viva de resistance!
David looked at my boat's bow and concluded that any cannon mounted on the
stanctions would not be able to actually fire a projectile else the bow
would come apart. Since I don't want to fire blanks, the bow chaser is
out. Now I'll have to take a look at the stern. }:-}
~*~ I tried thinking before, and I almost fell into the same mess YOU
are now in. - Joanna Amren (Defending Christanic Creationism myths)
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Door to door deity sellers
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:27:34
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a5c
REPLY: 1:157/200 4d020b08
PID: FM 2.02
kd> A friend claims that when missionaries knock on her door, her
kd> first response is to ask for their address. When they ask why she
kd> wants to know, she says it is so she can visit them to push her
kd> beliefs.
kdm> [Note: I'm gonna try this one]
FR> Me too. Except that fundy cultists don't
FR> come to my door much any more. }:-}
kdm> Gee, I wonder why not?
My guess is that eventually they _can_ learn from their mistakes.
kdm> I don't get any myself. Instead, I get frat boys.
Yeah? I wouldn't mind having some frat gurls coming over here.
~*~ At which point would you like me to start over? - Dave Schultz
Oh, when the doctor first spanked your ass would be a good place. - S.R.
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Staal's not Quality fundy time
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:40:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e935b
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12088250
PID: FM 2.02
jp> They are just not wasting time on YOU.
fR> But then you believe JFK is sill alive
FR> and will take over the planet with Henry Kissinger.
FR> Your opinions are pretty much easilly ignored.
jp> You're a treasure to me Fred.
Er, I'm not gay, John. Sorry. }:-}
jp> Later on, your statements will be ever so useful.
Childish threats. Gonna start shooting people like your fellow
Christians down through the centuries to "get even" with your intellectual
superiors?
~*~ Hey, man, that's straight from satan's hell. - Phil Morrison
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: One Staal (Under his god)
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:41:44
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e935c
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> I would like to point out some good news, I found about God[sic].
DR> He's dead.
ms> ...And there was much rejoicing.
FR> And another twenty took its place.
ns> Well, there's your problem...you got the porch
ns> light on. Attracts all kinds of loathsome bugs...};)
I'm gonna have to install some no-fundy strips and some fundy-zappers.
~*~ This line added to support David Rice's
counting fetish. :-) - Robert Curry
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:45:32
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e935d
PID: FM 2.02
TL> << BY WIDE MARGINS IN EACH BODY, THE HOUSE AND SENATE PASSED
TL> THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS ACT OF 1996 WITH AN AMENDMENT THAT
TL> PROHIBITS THE USE OF INDECENT SPEECH ONLINE AND ANOTHER THAT
TL> BARS DISCUSSION OF ABORTION ON THE INTERNET. THE PRESIDENT,
>> Fuck, I shoulda never been born. Ooops! Double Ooops!
>> What idiots those posers be...
FR> This TLP clown is about as rabid as they can get.
ns> This is the first time I've seen a post from them, so I had no
ns> idea. Glad to know what the standard is, though...especially
ns> around here...};)
Usually TLP posts these wild extremist anti-government "pronouncements"
about Waco, Texas, or Ruby Ridge. He and his little band parade back and
forth in front of government offices calling for the arrests of the people
inside. I wouldn't mind seeing Janet Reno tried for treason against
the State and I certainly would like to see the officers involved tried
for murder, but these lunatics' anti-government extremism makes me wonder
why they just don't leave the United States if they think it's been taken
over by Jews -- or whatever they think is controlling them.
~*~ Really, I want the wife to pull the fucking trigger
on me if I do that. - Steve Quarrella
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Another list: Hide the gods!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:53:31
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e935e
PID: FM 2.02
With Norbert Sykes:
bj> I would like to point out some good news, I found about God.
FR> You found some gods? Neat! Let me guess,
FR> you found them in the toilet, right?
ns> ...under some sofa cushions, along with 37 cents in change?
ns> ...in the pocket of a dirty pair of jeans?
ns> ...behind the lint filter on the dryer?
ns> ...where-ever your wallet and keys were hiding?
Behind the Big Bang?
In the discount book bin at K-Mart?
At the solid waste reclaimation depository?
In the mythology section of your used book store?
ns> I see a potential for great sport here...Deity hide and seek.
Oh where of where has the Christian gods gone,
Oh where or where can they be?
The cultists have died but their ignorance lives on,
Oh why oh why can't they theenk?
ns> The Deities all go hide, and we pick someone we don't
ns> care for to go and look for them, kinda like a snipe hunt.
And hope that the one we send searching gets "smited" when they find them.
ns> The tough part will be running around in the bushes with
ns> burlap sacks making Deity noises...should get us arrested...};)
}:-}
~*~ But when judgement is cast down upon you ... don't forget to get out
your calculator and convert the temperature in hell from Celsius to Rankin
units. - David (Christian Soldier)
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:57:06
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e935f
PID: FM 2.02
Steve Wallis
SW> Focus on the Family is a well respected Christian organization. As for
jb> FoF is a well-heeled hate group who, if they called themselves
jb> what they really are, are no better than the KKK. They HATE...
jb> gays, women, blacks, Hispanics, orientals, other religions. All
jb> in the name of Jesus, of course.
And they sell that hatred for a price. They sell fear to the populace and
then sell "cures" to allieviate the fears they sell. They're not in it
to raise the world's level of misery, I wager, other than that there's a
profit for them in doing so.
~*~ "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade
of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders
will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson, to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Scot Bear
|Sub: Texas Triangle Addresses
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:58:26
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e9360
REPLY: 1:154/69.0 312012ff
PID: FM 2.02
> Texas Triangle addresses: 1615 W. 6th St., Austin, TX
> 78703
> Voice: 512-476-0576
> Fax: 512-472-8154
> Email: txtriangle@aol.com
> URL: http://www.outline.com/triangle/hp.html
Joy! Thanks for the information. I'm printing it out now and I'll check
the web pages to see if there are back issues and such.
I'm so happy! (Er, notice I didn't say "I'm so gay?")
~*~ The KNEES! You forgot the KNEES! If he wanted Mankind to kneel, he
would have made it more-comfortable, no? :) - Scot Vertullo
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jen Barrett
|Sub: god=hoax staal=bigot
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:00:43
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e9361
REPLY: 1:18/73.0 8922D2F3
PID: FM 2.02
jd> Show me concrete proof that there is a god.
fr> There is none. There's no evidence either.
jb> Thank you! That is my point ! Finally I have
jb> found intelligent life on this earth!
Nearly all the participants on this forum acknowledge the lack of evidence
for deity constructs, Jen. There's only about half a dozen fundies who
believe there is (but refuse to provide it.) Some of the theists on this
forum actually admit that they have no evidence but they appear to be in
the minority.
~*~ The only fear of death that I have is the fear that whatever
kills me is going to hurt like a sonuvabitch. -- Quentin Fai
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Michael Hardly: No different than Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:02:28
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190e9362
REPLY: 1:124/9005 311fa02d
PID: FM 2.02
FR> It seems that Hardly only reads messages which he feels come
fr> from people who won't point out his obvious lies and
fr> superstitions.
sq> I have to admit, I suddenly got "The Jesse Cold Shoulder"
sq> from him at one point, unless by some strange coincidence
sq> all my echomails to him didn't make it to the BBS from
sq> which he posts. Guess my rights were violated.
The fundy never answered that question, did he?
sq> "Christmas trees."
Blasphemy!
~*~ You must learn to over-come gravity. It is plain to see you
have never had an erection. - Joe Schultz
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: pope p.o'd at prots
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:13:35
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e3
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12137ca1
PID: FM 2.02
> GUATEMALA CITY (AP) -- Directly confronting the challenge to his
> church's traditional dominance in Central America, Pope John Paul II
But then you believe JFK will "rise up" and take over the planet with Henry
Kissinger.
~*~ I also know from experience that if a spell is cast on a buddist, a
humanist, or any else, the spell my penetrate. But, on a christian,
the spell is powerless. - Jose Gomez
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Exactly what Christianity is
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:14:30
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e4
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12137cb1
PID: FM 2.02
> Salvi- A young, unstable Roman Catholic man/boy pushed over
> the edge by hard-core anti-abortion rhetoric.
He's just doing EXACTLY what the Christanic death cult was created for,
John. He's only do what Christianity has done for the past 2,000 years.
What you should focus on is the fact that you and he joined the same death
cult.
~*~ There are many who are really troubled because low, debasing thoughts
come into the mind, and are not easily banished. - Phil Morrison
They become Christian clergy, in fact. - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tom Hart
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:17:29
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e5
PID: FM 2.02
th> Could someone please explain what part(s) of the Christian
th> text are allegory or what parts are not, and why.
FR> Each Christian picks and chooses which are "allegoary" and
fr> which are not, changing their beliefs as needed to fit their
fr> social, economic, and politic agenda of the moment.
th> Would you say they don't know what is allegory and what is not?
I would say that believers in the mythologies change their beliefs in accord
with whatever is convienient at the time. "Salad bar Christians" they're
called.
th> And lastly, does anyone have a scientific
th> explanation for why people kling to superstition?
FR> It would appear to be an artifact of the human
FR> specie's evolutional development.
th> What evidence do you know of for this conclusion?
Would you like some acedemic references? Susan Blackmore should be able
to provide details into the need to concoct myth as an artifact of the species'
development. Her publications should be in your local library.
~*~ You do realize that this echo has made me into this twisted, vile
fiend that now stands before you. - Drew Webber (HolySmoke) }:-}
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: THREE MYTHS JESUS
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:19:45
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e6
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> bible Steve. I think you may need a little more praying time in
BJ> your day. Many people are diceived by things others have told them,
BJ> with out reading the bible for yourself, how can you make a
BJ> judgement? Brad God Bless!
as> DEFINITELY a troll.
Why would you say that? Because he sounds like so many of the other fundies
who have made the mistake of coming through here?
'Tell you what. I'll sign onto his system (if he has one) and check.
~*~ Live within the law or we'll kill you within the law
- Fredric Rice, HolySmoke
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tim Pauly
|Sub: Walking out on the lunacy
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:23:02
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e7
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3120b6aa
PID: FM 2.02
tp> FYI my ex-wife walked out, and I am taking care of my children,
tp> which is something most so-called men in this country can't
TP> be bothered to do.
Was it your lunatic superstitions that your wife couldn't take any more?
That's usually the case if it wasn't over arguments about money.
~*~ I am telepathic. I am greatly feared by many who I have
demonstrated the ability to. They run like hell and stay
as far away from me as they can. - Pat Parrinello
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:26:07
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e8
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31213cc0
PID: FM 2.02
with: Terry Liberty-Parker
dw> speaking of that putz, do you want to bet his name used to be just
dw> plain old Terry Parker, until he got swept up in this militia craze?
No bet here. When he and his club parade back and forth in front of government
buildings "arresting" everyone, I wonder what name he goes under. (He may
have simply added the name to escape being addressed as "toilet paper.")
dw>> you actually posted something useful. Amazing.
dw>> See what you can do if you put your mind to it?
FR> It's a sad state of affairs when even right-wing extremist
fr> lunatics find something in common with rational people.
dw> It is almost enough to make me wonder if the CDA us a *good*
dw> thing. If it pissed Parker off, it can't be all bad.
Um, interesting philosophy. }:-} "TP is against it so I'm for it." }:-}
~*~ I still wonder why natural selection has not yet found you and
corrected its great mistake. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: E-Mail: Telecom Bill
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:27:06
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29e9
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 120eb893
PID: FM 2.02
> Forwarded (from: CIVLIB) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd.
I wonder if you realize that had we been interested in reading the CIVLIB
forum, we would have elected to subscribe to it.
~*~ Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction
of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we
have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the
effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other
half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia"
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andy Soell
|Sub: Hello, all!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:28:05
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ea
PID: FM 2.02
as> From what I've seen scanning through the messages, many
as> of you seem very cynical of christians....why?
Perhaps you are not aware of the history that the Christanic death cult
has nor of what the cult is doing to soverign nations around the world.
~*~ New twist on the chicken or the egg question: which came
first, the bible or the bigot? -- ROB BURCHAM
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: One Staal not three
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:29:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29eb
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You found some gods? Neat!
bj> Who is this Staal, everyone keeps quoting?
bj> Is he a friend of yours or something?
He's a member of your cult.
bj> NO, I didn't find some gods, I found only One God (Jesus)!
Yeah? When are you going to show them?
~*~ The Cross is the only hope for the world. - Charles Rollins
Only if we put more Christians on the things. - David Worrell
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal also has great Ignorance of history
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:31:54
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ec
REPLY: 1:271/460 3121831e
PID: FM 2.02
km>>> Who conducted the Crusades?
km>>> Who conducted the Inquisitions?
km>>> Who conducted the Witch hunts?
FR>> Christians, clown. Perhaps you should actually learn the origins of
fr>> the Christanic death cult, Ken, then perhaps you could find the
fr>> courage to escape it. Hatred and bigotry is an ideological baseline
fr>> for Christianity -- as you well know. Stop pretending otherwise.
km>> OK, let's be more specific Fred, which church conducted
km>> the Crusades, the Inquisitions and the witch hunts?
FR> The Christanic death cult, silly. Weren't you paying attention? For
FR> centuries Christanics slaughtered millions upon millions of innocent
FR> people, sacrficing them to their death gods. This hatred and bigotry
FR> still exists today through the broad spectrum of Christanic brad names.
km> Sure I was, maybe I should make myself a little more specific?
Okay.
km> Which church conducted the Crusades, the
km> Inquisitions and the witch hunts?
As I have said (and as you well know) the Christian religion. Christianity
has been and continues to be the single worse tyranny ever inflicted upon
humanity. Want evidence:
And again David if God asked me to kill my son, I would see
it as a sacrifice. Whether that is what is meant by you in
the question or not. I would see it as such. - Kenneth Mcabee
Witness what the Christanic death cult does to people with your own words.
~*~ ...just a bunch of crazy Atheist..(who will all burn in Hell)...
- Todd Johnson
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal also has great Ignorance of history
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:33:51
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ed
REPLY: 1:271/460 3121831e
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Pretending Christanics aren't "true" Christanics is an evil lie that
FR> Christians are taught to mouth to themselves. They can't fool their
FR> intellectual superiors.
km> Only intellectual superior I have is God
You concocted your deity constructs to justify your actions and the activities
of your fellow death cultists. Those who recognize the origins of your
fictional constructs are your intellectual superiors, Ken, as well as your
moral and ethical superiors. We don't glibly demand we're going to kill
our own children when we start hearing voices:
And again David if God asked me to kill my son, I would see
it as a sacrifice. Whether that is what is meant by you in
the question or not. I would see it as such. - Kenneth Mcabee
~*~ God does not like to be told he does not exist. - Richard Thorneycroft
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal also has great Ignorance of history
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:35:06
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ee
REPLY: 1:271/460 3121831e
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Look at your own hatred, Ken, and note that the death
FR> cult you joined has a history that fits you.
km> I have no hatred Fred. And I have joined no death cult.
You have basically joined the KKK and then demanded you're not a racist
bigot. You know what the history of the Christanic death cult is and what
it continues to do to humanity around the world and yet you sit in the death
cult and glibly demand you're not responsible for what the cult does and
stands for.
~*~ You apparently want the whacko flowers and light conference
down the hall. Just follow the trail of drool, and check your
soul with Winters at the door. - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal won't Drink it either, Ken
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:36:58
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ef
REPLY: 1:271/460 31218372
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You are not "temping" your deity constructs when it's _you_ who
fr> are instructed by your very own mythologies to drink. We know
fr> that you won't drink because you know you're a false Christian
fr> -- you only pretend to believe and you try to excuse your lack
fr> of belief as "temping" your deity constructs.
FR> Either drink it or admit you're a fraud.
km> Go read the Bible and tell me what Christ
km> said when someone asked him for a sign?
Go read your mythologies and tell me who lied when they claimed you could
drink up and not be harmed. You are trying to wiggle out of the fact that
YOU have been caught out as a false Christian who doesn't honestly believe.
Either drink up or admit you're a fraud.
~*~ In the beginning was the Word... - Steve Bedard
And the word is destroy the non-believers... - Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal probably also believes in McDowell
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:38:49
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f0
REPLY: 1:271/460 31218482
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> And again David if God asked me to kill my son, I would see
FR>> it as a sacrifice. Whether that is what is meant by you in
FR>> the question or not. I would see it as such. - Kenneth Mcabee
What utter evil the Christanic death cult is.
FR>> Witness why the Christanic death cult has the history it does.
km>> Want to post the rest of it Fred?
FR> That's all that needs to be said. Your willingness to murder your
fr> own son when you start hearing voices in your head is why
fr> Christianity has the history it does.
km> Sorry Fredric, but nowhere in the statement above
km> did I admit that I would sacrifice my own Son.
Yet further admission that you're a fraud. Either admit that you're fully
willing to murder your own children else admit that you're only pretending
to be a death cultist.
~*~ He who lives by the salad bar dies by the salad bar. - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Hitler wannabees
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:39:51
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f1
REPLY: 1:271/460 3121853b
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You end up knowing that Adolf Hitler did exactly what Christianity has
FR> done to innocent people for the past 2,000 years. You know what the
FR> history of the Christanic death cult has been and you know that Adolf
FR> Hitler was simply one Christian among millions who did exactly what
FR> Christianity is designed to foment.
km> Shows how much you really know Fred
Which is why I'm intellectually superior to you. }:-}
Hitler was a Christian, Ken, sanctioned by nearly _all_ of European Christianity.
Get over it.
~*~ From beginning to end, there's one unfolding story of God's
plan of salivation for mankind. - Marguerite Kendall
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:40:59
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f2
REPLY: 1:271/460 31218615
PID: FM 2.02
fR>>>>> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR>>>>> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
FR>>>>> Are you just a liar or are you a liar for Jesus?
js>>>>> What has the above post to do with hatred and bigotry?
FR>>>> Perhaps your inability to see your own hatred and bigotry is
FR>>>> what your problem is. Certainly it's why the Christanic
FR>>>> death cult has the history it does.
km>>>> Wait a minute Fred, tell me exactly where
km>>>> does he say that he hates them?
FR> And even when I prove to you that your fellow Christian hates Jews you
FR> _still_ want to pretend that Christanic hatred expressed by Staal and
FR> yourself is justified.
km> Sorry Fred, you've yet to prove that my fellow Christians hated Jews.
I posted a lengthy speech from your fellow Christian Adolf Hitler where
he expresses the same hatred of Jews as you express of homosexuals.
Care to have your nose rubbed into the hurtful truth again?
~*~ Claiming to be "exhorted" on how to treat women and children based
upon the Bible is like being "exhorted" on how to treat Jews based
upon Mein Kampf. - David Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:42:56
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f3
REPLY: 1:271/460 31218615
PID: FM 2.02
FR> bet you a buck you continue to make the same death cultist mistake.
km> Can't, don't belong to a death cult.
Perhaps you don't know the history of the Christanic death cult. I wonder
if I should suggest some history text books for your education.
km>> Then why Fred if Hitler did not hate the Jews,
km>> did he try to wipe them out?
FR> He did hate Jews, just as homophobic bigots like you hate fags. And
FR> people like you used to murder gays and would love to start up again
fr> today if they could, just like your fellow Christian Adolf Hitler.
km> I don't hate fags.
Sure you do, Ken, and you use your death cult fictional constructs to justify
your hatred. Like any fascist you demand that you love them and hate the
"sin" of homosexuality never mind that "sin" is a fictional artifact of
your death cult.
~*~ The argument from ignorance does not point to a goddess...it
points to ignorance. - Tyler A. Wunder
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:44:30
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f4
REPLY: 1:271/460 31218615
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Drink up, Ken, and do the world a small favor.
km> You place so much trust in it, you drink up.
I understand the physics and a bit of the biology involved in the drinking
of metabolic poisons so I know that your own mythologies prove themselves
a fraud.
And your lack of faith and courage needed to drink up also proves you a
fraud.
~*~ I have a recurring nightmare about being a patient in my own ER.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Many Gods and Goddesses
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:50:44
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f5
PID: FM 2.02
bj> Maybe I should not have said that I feel sorry for you,
bj> because it is your chose not to believe in Jesus.
FR> And I'm sure that Wiccans pity you for not believing in the Goddess.
Well? One Wiccan stated that he doesn't pity you for your denial of the
Goddess. Why didn't you address this issue?
bj> I myself have a hard time understanding why people don't believe in
God!
FR> That's because you're ignorant and a superstitious fool incapable of
FR> reason. Since there is no evidence for the existance of any deities,
FR> the lack of belief in deities signifys reason.
bj> Fredric Fredric Fredric!
Please. Call me "Fred."
bj> How can you say that I am superstitious?
Were you lying when you claimed you believed in deity constructs?
bj> I am not afraid to walk under a later or
bj> cross the path of a black cat.
You live in fear of your unreachable Alpha Male construct and in fear of
the unavoidable eventuality of your own death. Toward that end you devised
superstitions which you pretend will save you.
bj> You say I have a lack of evidence to
bj> back up that there is only one God.
I said you lacked any evidence for the existance of any deities, not just
the pantheon of deity constructs Christanics mistakenly capitalize to try
to lend them some creedence over all the others.
bj> I have a book with around 1400 pages full of evidence.
Mythology is not evidence, silly cultist. Your book of mythologies
are frought with contradictions and scientific impossibilities. You have
a paper deity construct which you want to believe is evidence for the existance
of your Alpha Male deity construct.
Tell me, cultist: Homer's Iliad... Is that proof that Zeus and Odin exist?
bj> People like yourself must be kidding me,
bj> when you say you don't believe in Jesus?
People like yourself must be kidding when you say you don't believe in Zeus.
bj> Isa 45:22 (KJV)
You quote mythology and pretend to be makig an argument in your favor when
in fact it merely shows us that you're incapable of thinking rationally
for yourself.
bj> Don't wait to long Fredric to start looking for the truth.
It's too bad you gave up and accepted a lie.
~*~ The only reason a man would be for abortion is that he would know
that he wouldn't get "stuck" with the bills. - Kim Kelley
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Dan Oglesby
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 14 Feb 96 17:41:00
EID:46a1 204e8d20
MSGID: 1:2801/1@fidonet.org 65189f0f
Karen wrote to Brad thusly:
KD>.MSGID: 1:207/212 1bf1ba6d
KD>On (10 Feb 96) Brad Jackson wrote to Dan Ceppa...
KD>I prayed to god that he'd take me out of an abusive home when I still
KD>believed. He didn't.
Hello Karen. I don't mean to butt in here but if I may....
I've just recently joined here (doubt I will stay very long) and noticed
your posts.
First of all I have been a born again Christian for 25 years now. Have
went to church all of my 33 years of life.
With that in mind, let me say a few things please. I have seen similar
debates and have learned a great deal.
#1. I can NOT prove to you that God exists. Anything dealing with
the supernatural can not be dealt with "scientifically".
#2. I can NOT prove to you the Bible is the true written word of
God. I can show you answers to the "contradictions", show you great
wonders of the Bible and its authenticity and the writers involved. But
for you it won't prove anything. (NOTE: The mormon bible makes great
claims to historicity and there has not been one shred of evidence to
prove it correct. There are many historical references in the Bible
that have been proven correct.)
But if I may I would like to attempt to answer your question above. It
has presented itself as a great paradox for many years. If God is so
loving, and omnipotent, why didn't he change my circumstances?
It would take a great deal on my part to explain this but I will
condense it down in simple terms for brevity.
For justice to be done, God should remove all of the evil in the world.
At first glance that seems like a very good idea. But let us consider
it for a moment.
For God to remove all of the evil in the world, He would have to remove
a large amount of the population of the human race. Zappo! Everyone
who has done anything wrong in their life, (and I believe we all have at
one time or another) are now removed. But it doesn't stop there. God
would then have to remove those left, who are capable of evil.
Therefore, there has now been a total removal of the human race.
Debatably speaking, probably many other species of plants and animals
also.
Personally I don't like the above scenario. I also don't like any
scenario that involves abuse of any kind. But if He would have altered
the scenario in your circumstance, He would have been forced to do so
for everyone else, to the point of infinity.
The point is this. If that would have happened, then if we were heading
to a scenario that might have been dangerous for us, God would be
obligated to remove us from that scenario, to the point that we would
become total robots with God pushing all of the buttons,,,, and then we
would be claiming how God isn't fair, and we should be allowed to live
our own lives......etc.
Ain't much help, but it does make sense when you think about it.
Dano
...If I had a dime for every time I said If I had a dime.
* CMPQwk 1.42 9658 *
--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0647
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|From: Richard Morrison
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Better educated
|Date: 15 Feb 96 13:29:00
EID:b701 204f6ba0
MSGID: 1:280/26 510b8fb4
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
FR>You asked what constitutes a better education, cultist. Your self
FR>is pretty much equal to a typical Creationist's.
Why not quit being a child and carry on a conversation without all the
name calling...?
FR>Something you don't have. You believe in deity constructs without
FR>evidence
Only evidence that *you* are willing to accept Fred.
FR>simply because you were indoctrinated into a cult when young
I was? Hum... That's interesting. Do I know you?...
FR> For that you need a better education than the one you
FR>think you had.
Maybe more like yours eh? Nah, no thanks. I don't think I would dig
sitting in front of a professor and just letting them pour in their philosophical
opinions without being challenged... You can lap it up if you want but
that's not being a critical thinker... (that's whether you agree or disagree,
you should still consider it.)
FR>rm> (btw: you told me to capitalize "greek" I guess with the letter
FR>
FR>And look at your unwillingness to do so yet again
Are you saying then when I quote something I should change the quote so
I then render a false quotation?
FR>rm> Maybe it was all of the above... believe what you will... <
FR>
FR>Oh I'm sure it was at least one of the above. No one seems to beco
FR>death cultist fundy without _some_ hard-luck story to drive them to
FR>lows.
Not everyone who has done drugs has a 'hard luck story' Fred. Go figure.
You are the one who is so compartmentalized in your thinking.
FR>Hopefully you realize that we're all here to _help_ you escape from
Well, I'll wait till you grow up and see if you feel the same way.
FR>By the way: Please come back to #holysmoke. We discussed your cas
FR>that you don't pose any threat to our organization and can possibly
yea right...
FR> Yet you must come back to #holysmoke and participate a
FR>little more in this forum before we can truely help you.
Is that "truely" or truly?
Your theatrics are nice Fred... I enjoy the humor and can use the smiles
it produces... thanks...
ttyl
in the service for HIS Service
Richard
* CMPQwk 1.42130
-=> It IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you. <
--- InterEcho 1.16
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|From: Richard Morrison
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 15 Feb 96 13:34:00
EID:5227 204f6c40
MSGID: 1:280/26 510b8fc5
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
DC> RM> I don't think you answered the question Dan.
DC>
DC>You have never gotten around to my question.
????
in the service for HIS Service
Richard
* CMPQwk 1.42130
-=> >>>> ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI <<<< <
--- InterEcho 1.16
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 14 Feb 96 20:10:00
EID:a924 204ea140
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b23
TID: GE 1.11+
KD> I prayed to god that he'd take me out of an abusive home when I still
KD> believed. He didn't.
And the typical replies:
(1) You didn't believe enough
(2) A little suffering in THIS world doesn't really matter,
since you'll have ETERNITY in heaven
(3) God works in mysterious ways
In short, God doesn't give a rat's ass about your abuse.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Archaeologist: A person whose career lies in ruins
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: One Staal
|Date: 14 Feb 96 20:22:00
EID:bf44 204ea2c0
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b24
TID: GE 1.11+
BK> DM> KD> Odin is just as valid a god as yours.
BK>
BK> DM> Especially on Wednesdays.
BK>
BK> Another good point. How many days of the week are named after
BK> *Christian* gods?:)
April Fool's Day?
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Acoustic: Instrument used in billiards
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: American Atheists
|Date: 14 Feb 96 20:24:00
EID:ba48 204ea300
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b25
TID: GE 1.11+
BK> First, Robin, Madalyn, and Jon
BK> (maybe som emore family members) are still "missing", and have been
in
BK> said state for six months:(.
BK> ----------------------------
BK> That's all for now...I *really* wish he knew more about
BK> the former leaders' disappearance...I'm highly curious...
Maybe the Rapture came and they were 'taken up'.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Archaeologist: A person whose career lies in ruins
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 14 Feb 96 23:20:00
EID:023e 204eba80
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b26
TID: GE 1.11+
JH> Sort of... the Koran is written in first, second and third persons
JH> and frequently uses the plural forms. The general impression to an
JH> English speaking reader is that Allah suffers from one hell of a
JH> bad case of identity confusion.
Maybe his name should have been Staallah.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Aardvark: Strenuous labor
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Religious Experience
|Date: 15 Feb 96 22:35:00
EID:5bec 204fb460
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b27
TID: GE 1.11+
PS> MH> 30 million dead unborn children is "progress?"
PS>
PS> RB> No, but allowing women to take control of their own bodies is
PS> RB> progress.
PS>
PS> Right around the anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, a lot of
PS> churches around here put up little white crosses to symbolize the
PS> abortions that take place in Memphis. I have often been tempted to
PS> make up large placards that say, "Think of how much worse it would
PS> be if the decision had gone the other way" and post them facing said
PS> churches.
You don't think the world would be a better place with
an additional 30 million unwanted babies?
Now, if we could just reverse the outcome on the millions
that God aborted, things would really be grand.
Maybe Pro-life should change it's name to Pro-overpopulation.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Bachelor: One who's footloose and fiancee free
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: flood
|Date: 15 Feb 96 22:47:00
EID:445a 204fb5e0
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b28
TID: GE 1.11+
KD> I agree with you. And these facts bug fundies no end. They keep
KD> expecting morality to be absolute.
Fortunately for gays, women and slaves; not everyone 'believes'
in an absolute morality.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Apparent: A large, old, bossy person who tortures youths
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: conservatives
|Date: 15 Feb 96 22:50:00
EID:28ba 204fb640
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b29
TID: GE 1.11+
MH> Keep in mind we're talking politics, not theology. Conservative and
MH> liberal mean different things in different contexts.
'Conservative' in the purest sense, means 'resistant to change'.
That definition applies to both politics and theology. Those
theists who AREN'T conservative are 'false theist scum'.
MH> Not if the control results in 30 million dead unborn children.
MH> Conservatives also favor allowing women to take control of their own
MH> bodies -- up to, but NOT including, abortion. *Most* conservatives
have
MH> no problem with women who use contraceptives, or choose to not have
MH> sex, in order to avoid having children. It's just that killing the
MH> children once they've been created is not a legitimate "choice."
First trimester fetuses are not 'children'. IMO, a woman
should have a 'window of choice' during the first half of
her pregnancy (and certainly, the first trimester). That's
also the way the Supreme Court sees it (and in this case,
they're right).
MH> Is it compassionate to allow the needy to become trapped in a
MH> self-perpetuating cycle of dependency? Conservatives favor helping
the
MH> truly needy, but not allowing those who could work to live off of other
MH> people's tax money.
It's a riot to witness how conservatives are 'trying to help
the needy by removing them from their cycle of dependency'.
Conservatives have a valid point here, but to cloak it in
'concern' for those on welfare is to laugh.
Why can't they just be truthful?..."We're ruthless, greedy
bastards who work hard for our money and those lazy, shiftless
leeches shouldn't get one dime."
MH> What if some students discover that their "truth" allows for dishonest
MH> business dealings and taking sexual advantage of the emotionally weak?
You mean "what if they grow up to be Republicans or evangelical
preachers"? That's the risk we take for freedom.
MH> Sure. However, I do not consider myself the sole indicator. About 40
MH> percent of evangelical Christians voted for Clinton in '92. Forty
MH> percent is a huge minority, hardly an insignificant fringe. And that's
MH> just among evangelicals, who tend to be more conservative than many
MH> other Christians.
If that is true (40 percent), I am hugely surprised.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Astronomer: A night watchman
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 00:41:00
EID:9269 20500520
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b2a
TID: GE 1.11+
MH> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to berate Christians
for
MH> using shareware offline readers for more than 30 days without
MH> registering.
MH>
MH> Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will come down equally hard
MH> on Frederick Leff.
MH>
MH> FL> ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 37 days.
MH>
MH> Of course, those atheists almost certainly *are* hypocrites.
We have faith that reason and empathy will lead Frederick
to see the error of his ways.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Astronomer: A night watchman
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Asmodeus times out!
|Date: 16 Feb 96 00:57:00
EID:0199 20500720
MSGID: 1:280/9 188e4b2b
TID: GE 1.11+
JH> Today is THE DAY.
JH> B t in the rare event that I act a y ho ie, I've p rchace
JH> thi rea y ifty b ack q i hro with a y ow ight i g bo
JH> t acro th fro t. A p r th i tr cti i my wi my b y i
JH> g i g t b vi p i t ma p c , packag p a br w
JH> wrapp r w th t a r t r a r by w y f h
JH> P rv c r m y c
JH> - x r r h c ry. My f r g p c
JH> w b h r ff c .
ROFLMAO!!!
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Artery: Study of fine paintings
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Hector Plasmic
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:10:00
EID:36b9 20518140
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c23896c2
HP> KW> It can't be proven, and it can't be measured, but those of us that
use
HP> KW> it swear by it (literally).
HP>And precisely what evidence (keep the proof) do you have that distinguishes
HP>this "magick" from, say, simple delusion?
HP>If you have none, then sorry -- don't believe you.
Hector, I don't care if you don't believe. That's simply not a factor
for me. Sorry, no offence meant, but I never intended to convince you of
anything. I was asked a question. I answered it. And if you are
looking for special effects, go to ILM.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Even if you understood women, you'd never believe it!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Richard Morrison
|Sub: Tithe
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:10:00
EID:4bba 20518140
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0143774b
RM>KW>RM>KW>tell me 'god' unless you are willing to offer evidence that
t
RM>KW>RM>KW>physically translated to heaven straight from the alter. Who
RM>KW>
RM>KW>RM>Actually it's from the ushers room.... <
RM>KW>
RM>KW>Okay. I suppose heaven can be found in the preacher's pockets.
RM>Which Preacher's Katherine? yes, certainly the TV preachers,,, they
beg for
RM>lots of money but from my observation, very few preachers make a lot
of
RM>money. Usually it's the ones that are on TV who are bilking people for
their
RM>money. I know there are others but sooner or later they make it to TV...<
RM>I think it's the TV that's Evil.... *grin*.
So if you got rid of TV you would get rid of the evil? I don't think
so, Richard. The church (under whatever name) has been enriching itself
all along. Take a look at the cathedrals of Europe. At the local
churches rearing their beautiful rooflines proud against the sky. Then
look at the homeless and mentally ill huddled under the overpasses (did
you know that once bishops had a terrible time with the unsightly poor
sheltering between the buttresses of cathedrals?). That's not TV,
Richard, that's real life. Find out how much your preachers robes and
suit cost, what the price of the choir stalls was, the printers bill for
the programs...
Then find out how many hungry children that exercise in pride would
have fed. If you belong to one of the really fancy denominations, this
will horrify you. Do you have any idea how much a silver chalice to
serve up your god's blood costs?
RM>btw: I know of some preachers who were independently wealthy before
becoming
RM>a preacher... I think that's kind of neat in it's own right.
Richard, I don't contest that there are a few good men there. But the
plate passing for man's pride just doesn't sit well with me.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Everything lost is found again, in a new form, in a new
way.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: hi
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:10:00
EID:be39 20518140
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 601b0541
AM> Just out of curiosity, if you think Christ is no more that a fictitional
AM> character, why the concern with what Christians believe??
Because many of them insist on shoving Christ down our throats. From
the ones that want their mythology taught as science in the school, to
the ones that want the Constitution rewritten to reflect 'biblical law',
all the way down to the ones that will insist on banging on my own,
personal front door.
That includes the Jackass that tried to tell me that my partner
instructed him to 'save' me. Fat chance, my partner is my paired High
Priest.
If xtians would just go practise their religion in peace and
tolerance, many many of us would have no problem with them at all.
If...
---
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:10:00
EID:5445 20518140
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 124b015a
AM> Brian, its nice to see you read the bible, its a shame you don't know
what
AM> it means. You quoted instances when God was either smitting the enemies
AM> of Israel, or chastising His own people. Have your parents ever corrected
AM> you? Did it mean they didn't love. I let you know a little secret,
if they
AM> didn't correct you, it was because they didn't love you.
Sweetie, if one of us 'corrects' a child to death, we call it capital
murder and child abuse.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Find God? Why, is she missing?
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: CHRISTMAS
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:10:00
EID:a1b3 20518140
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0f3efca3
JB>-=> Quoting David Worrell to Katherine Wintersnight <=-
JB> DW> Gee, thanks, Katherine. I suppose you'll brain me with that fryin'
pan
JB> DW> of yours too after I finish the pie, right? :)
JB>She wouldn't be that mean. If you've finished the pie, though, you may
JB>wish she had instead.
David, I didn't get to see the original of this.
However, Judith's right. I would be too interested in watching you
react to bother with the spider. ;) However, if you should ask, pretty
please, I just might be willing to put you out of your misery.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Flash! Energizer Bunny Arrested -- Charged with Battery!
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|From: Christopher Baker
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: Re: Re: American Atheists
|Date: 17 Feb 96 17:45:37
EID:e0c0 20518da0
MSGID: 1:374/14 31265A91
PID: GenMsg 4.30 [0002]
Date: 17 Feb 96 22:45:37 UTC
In a message dated: 15 Feb 96, Brian Kolacy stated:
BK> No prob. I got an "official" letter today, forwarded from my
BK> previous address. 'Tis not much more informative, but I'd be happy
BK> to type it at you, if you would like;).
please do. i have received no communication of any kind.
thanks.
TTFN.
Chris
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbak.rights@opus.global.org)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Anthony Anti-Semite 1/3
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:24:34
EID:36fc 20504300
MSGID: 1:207/212 94d3fef3
On (14 Feb 96) Norbert Sykes wrote to Anthony Grigor-Scott...
NS> Incidently, what does being a staunch friend of Britain have to do
NS> with anything?
It's called British Israelism, Norbert, and it gave rise to our American
movement called Christian Identity. It is very important in that belief
system that Israel be England. They go through all sorts of fancy verbal
gymnastics to prove that Jews aren't the "Israel" of the Bible, present
day Brits are. They include America in this little fantasy, as well. The
belief started up a bit more than a hundred years ago, and is very
millenialist and vaguely racist.
USUALLY they aren't quite so obviously anti Semitic as this - they leave
that for the American Christian Identity groups.
... The sound of a SysOp reading mail
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:31:08
EID:6397 205043e0
MSGID: 1:207/212 0409d7d9
REPLY: 1:246/15 311C1574
On (15 Feb 96) Steve Wallis wrote to Judith Bandsma...
SW> Focus on the Family is a Christian organization that is praised for
SW> helping 1000's of souls come to Christ. What authority do you have to
SW> knock it. None at all. Take some time to think before you reply, after
all
SW> you are in controll arnt you Judith?
I knock it because it IS a Christian organization.
I knock it beause they supported a guy who claimed to cure gays but
instead ended up having sex with them.
... Watch the short jokes or I'll bite you on the ankle!
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Rodney Green
|Sub: Very much alive!
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:34:36
EID:4f68 20504440
MSGID: 1:207/212 530d6a30
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 312404d6
On (15 Feb 96) Rodney Green wrote to Kerry Renaissance...
RG> Exactly what I expected to see from someone here. That's the problem
RG> with "religion". It causes people to argue. You see, God is alive,
RG> Jesus
RG> is very much alive in the hearts of TRUE believers everywhere. I'm
RG> certain
RG> you have run into people who would not match your perception of what
a
RG> Christian should be, I have too. I regret that greatly. A stumbling
RG> block
RG> that has and will cause unbelief in the only true joy and happiness,
a
RG> relationship with Jesus Christ, a personal God who cares about you.
The same argument could be had for Santa - he is alive in the hearts of
believers and parents everywhere.
That doesn't mean we can have a relationship with him.
... Ecky Ecky Ecky pTANG Bing whing prrn zhrrn-wup
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Anthony Anti-Semite 1/3
|Date: 16 Feb 96 19:39:54
EID:36fc 20509ce0
MSGID: 1:207/212 70ef2108
On (14 Feb 96) Norbert Sykes wrote to Anthony Grigor-Scott...
NS> Incidently, what does being a staunch friend of Britain have to do
NS> with anything?
It's called British Israelism, Norbert, and it gave rise to our American
movement called Christian Identity. It is very important in that belief
system that Israel be England. They go through all sorts of fancy verbal
gymnastics to prove that Jews aren't the "Israel" of the Bible, present
day Brits are. They include America in this little fantasy, as well. The
belief started up a bit more than a hundred years ago, and is very
millenialist and vaguely racist.
USUALLY they aren't quite so obviously anti Semitic as this - they leave
that for the American Christian Identity groups.
... "With a bit of a mind flip, you're into the time slip."
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 16 Feb 96 19:39:45
EID:6397 20509ce0
MSGID: 1:207/212 8d2d8a4a
On (15 Feb 96) Steve Wallis wrote to Judith Bandsma...
SW> Focus on the Family is a Christian organization that is praised for
SW> helping 1000's of souls come to Christ. What authority do you have to
SW> knock it. None at all. Take some time to think before you reply, after
all
SW> you are in controll arnt you Judith?
I knock it because it IS a Christian organization.
I knock it beause they supported a guy who claimed to cure gays but
instead ended up having sex with them.
... Shopping tip: Shoes are $.85 at bowling alleys.
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Rodney Green
|Sub: Very much alive!
|Date: 16 Feb 96 19:39:34
EID:4f68 20509ce0
MSGID: 1:207/212 fccae4a0
On (15 Feb 96) Rodney Green wrote to Kerry Renaissance...
RG> Exactly what I expected to see from someone here. That's the problem
RG> with "religion". It causes people to argue. You see, God is alive,
RG> Jesus
RG> is very much alive in the hearts of TRUE believers everywhere. I'm
RG> certain
RG> you have run into people who would not match your perception of what
a
RG> Christian should be, I have too. I regret that greatly. A stumbling
RG> block
RG> that has and will cause unbelief in the only true joy and happiness,
a
RG> relationship with Jesus Christ, a personal God who cares about you.
The same argument could be had for Santa - he is alive in the hearts of
believers and parents everywhere.
That doesn't mean we can have a relationship with him.
... Beware the fury of a patient man - Dryden
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: A tale of 2 cities...
|Date: 13 Feb 96 15:54:00
EID:38e0 204d7ec0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 121e3871
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to John Prewett <=-
SA> Any scientific source material on bats will tell you that bats are not
SA> birds, they are mammals.
JP> Modern language includes many distinctions
JP> which didn't exist some 4000 years ago.
LB> That is because modern science has DISCOVERED many of those
LB> distinctions, requiring a refinement of the language. But God would
LB> have know of those distinctions, since he made them, right? Ergo --
LB> the Bible is not the directly inspired word of God. It contains the
LB> mindset and outlook of the culture in which it was written.
I'm not sure I follow your ergo, there. Not that I think the Bible is
inerrant (far from it), but this is an extremely weak argument.
Dr. Seuss certainly is aware of ideas and distinctions that are much more
complex than those found in his books. But those books are aimed at a
certain audience, and those complex ideas and distinctions would not be
relevant to that audience.
The part of the Bible you are discussing here was aimed at a wandering
desert tribe that did not distinguish between bats and birds, and did not
posess the vocabulary to make that distinction. Under the circumstances,
the fact that the bible doesn't make such a distinction is pretty easy to
understand, regardless of whether the author was a member of that tribe
or
the almighty Creator Himself.
Whether the author was aware of the distinction or not is irrelevant.
The audience was unaware of it, so the distinction would naturally
be omitted (unless it was relevant to the point being made, which in this
case it was not). Ergo, this example does not provide any evidence that
the Bible is not the directly inspired word of God.
There are lots of examples of inaccuracies and contradictions in the
Bible, but this one (along with my favourite - the pi=3.00 thing) really
isn't one of them. Now, rabbits and cud, or Jesus ancestry, or which
was created first, men or plants, or ... like I said, there are lots of
them.
Take care.
... Don't get the idea that I'm knocking the American system. (Al Capone)
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07áf (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Sault Ste. Marie,On 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: cashless society
|Date: 15 Feb 96 21:18:07
EID:d4c6 204faa40
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 41d197e4
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3121d41b
On (14 Feb 96) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to David Worrell...
LB> All and David were killing time yakking about cashless society:
DW> 06 Feb 96 14:33, Dan A. Post wrote to David Worrell:
LB> DW>> How did you know they had cliterectomies, Dan? Was it something
LB> DW>> like, "Oh, hi Mr. Cashregister Repairman! By the way, I've had
a
LB> DW>> cliterectomy."? Explain it to me, Danny.
DP> Do you not understand the signifigance of the 'dot' in the centre of
DP> the forehead? My understanding is that this mark is placed there
DP> following the procedure, and these women had this mark. All you have
DP> to do is walk down the street of any major city in North America
DP> (except maybe in the southern US), and you will likely see someone
DP> with this mark in less than half an hour. I already explained this,
DP> are you saying that this isn't the case?
DW> I thought his answer would amuse some of you.
LB> Amuse?! I'm busy scraping my jaw off the floor!
Should we tell him it's the Hindus that have the little dot, and
the Muslims that have the clitorectomies, or should we let him
continue to make a complete ass of himself.
... Make coffee from freeze-dried fundies!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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50 3619/25 3637/1
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 07:34:03
EID:45cb 20503c40
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 3a2bed4c
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3121efc0
On (13 Feb 96) Don Martin wrote to Eric Hendrix...
DM> Eric Hendrix said "Thumb-sucking Fundy" to Preston Simpson, adding:
EH> I also want to toss out another thought.
DM> Only you would so label it.
EH> Ok, according to evolution, the world took billions of years
EH> to *evolve* to the point we are at right now. According to my
EH> Bible, it took six days, but who is to say what six days is,
EH> in the eyes of an eternal being? God's one day could be our
EH> billion years.
DM> If that eternal being were also omniscient and wished to
DM> communicate accurately to his people, he would probably
DM> "inspire" his writing staff to use words in the way people
DM> understood them. It is a cheap shot at biblical inerrancy to
DM> claim that the words therein can mean ANYthing.
There's a book written by a fellow who has two Ph.D's -- one in
law, the other in Jungian psychology. He wrote a wonderful book
called _The Mind of the Bible Believer_ in which he explains the
steps necessary to turn a rational human being into a fundy.
Having actually gone through the steps himself, and having a
well-trained ability to analyze the exact nature of the steps, his
book is a scathing descrption of the processes involved. One step
(number four or five, maybe) he calls "logocide." When this step
is complete, a person is convinced that many everyday words have
two meanings, one employed by the great unwashed, the other
employed by we insiders. And never the twain shall meet. So once
the dastardly deed has been done satisfactorily, "love" becomes
"contempt for what you are," "day" becomes "any period of time we
want it to be," and so forth.
So now YOU tell ME why a "day" can't be a billion years, if god
wants it to be? Does this tyrannical warmonger HAVE to plan by
YOUR measley rules?
... Coming soon from Microsoft: Mouse support for EDLIN!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Andy Soell
|Sub: Hello, all!
|Date: 16 Feb 96 07:41:22
EID:3114 20503d20
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 47a01e08
On (13 Feb 96) Andy Soell wrote to All...
AS> OK, I'm new here, so I thought I'd make a general introduction of
AS> myself.
AS> From what I've seen scanning through the messages, many of you seem
AS> very cynical of christians....why? There seems to be a stereotype (at
AS> least what I've read) that christians are stupid lazy people who are
AS> out of
AS> touch with the world and have closed their minds....mind if I ask why?
AS> Again, I just want to say now that as long as you at lea
When we get messages all the time telling us that a global flood
really, really happened; that dead people really, really do get up
and walk again; that Mary really, really was a virgin, we end up
with the impression that Christian are, indeed really, really mentally
and intellectually lazy people.
It ain't a stereotype; it's based on many, many data points, all of
which agree on certain things. The exceptions only try the rule,
they don't even come close to negating it.
... If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease. -- Clark Adams
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Robert Berndt
|Sub: Abe Lincoln
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:05:38
EID:947a 205040a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 856a9b46
REPLY: 1:280/26 4e04d4b6
On (12 Feb 96) Robert Berndt wrote to All...
RB> To all who think that Abe Lincoln hated religion, you might find this
RB> interesting......
RB> A Proclamation
RB> From the President
RB> For a Day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer 1863
RB> In Witness Whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused
RB> the seal of the United States to be affixed.
RB> By his excellency
RB> ABRAHAM LINCOLN
RB> President of the United States of America
I guess it's time somebody told you the facts of life. If you
read the first paragraph of that proclamation more carefully,
you'll see that it was AT THE REQUEST OF THE CONGRESS! It
was undoubtedly penned by a congressional aide at the behest
of his boss, a congressman. It is then nit-picked by other
congressional staffers and congressmen of a sympathetic mind,
then sent to the prez for his signature.
That's the way these things are done. The president simply
doesn't have the time nor the inclination for such petty
proclamations; he's got a country to run. So long as the
proclamation in question has been read by his staffers and
not found to contain anything that would be an outright
embarrassment to him, he'll sign any such proclamation that
crosses his desk. It simply isn't worth the loss of political
points to do anything else, and he may need somebody from the
other side of a political issue on his side in the future.
Having signed the proclamation, he knows that when that day
comes, he can call in at least one hostile vote, and perhaps
a dozen, depending on how many people were involved in the
instigation of the proclamation.
That's called "politics." It's the same now as it was then.
Politics is the art of compromise. So long as I can compromise
a personal conviction and obtain your personal vote in the future,
I'll do it. If I'm unable to stomach such trade-offs, I'm not
a politician, and I won't get elected dog catcher.
The proclamation in question didn't cost Lincoln a thing; the
taxpayers bought and paid for both the ink and the quill with
which he signed the document. They also paid for the parchment
on which it was written. All it cost him was a very slight
risk of writer's cramp for the few seconds it took him to affix
his signature to the document.
Or do you really think that the chippy-chaser we've got in the
White House now truly believes in family values when he agrees
to sign a blatantly unconstitutional bill that has great appeal
to the far right?
... Talk is cheap - Because supply exceeds demand.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Prewett
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 28 Jan 96 16:14:10
EID:0f8e 203c81c0
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 126a1ca3
FMPT 1012
=> Quoting John Prewett to Michael Hardy <=-
=> [------ lot's deleted for brevity -------]
MH> [----------------------------------------]
MH> Lynda has been terribly hard on Maria too.
MH> A few weeks ago, she apologized [---------]
That's the first I've heard of Lynda apologizing.
I'm gonna ignore all post for the next week or so,
to give time for the air to clear.
Lord help us all,...
"fundy" leaning and "liberal" leaning.
WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
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|From: John Prewett
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: NO I'M NOT DEAD
|Date: 28 Jan 96 16:38:20
EID:275a 203c84c0
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 126a1ca4
FMPT 1012
AS> Those of you who see this post, please respond. I am trying to
AS> determine who is receiving my posts...Jim and occasionally Judith and
AS> Roger and Dan aren't, Hector and JJ and Preston ARE, and I'm trying
to
AS> see what's going on. I ESPECIALLY want to hear from Larry Sites, whom
AS> I sent a multi part reply to the file he pulled off an athiest echo
AS> about the silliness of religious belief.
Yesterday you shoulda got a load of posts from me.
Sites said he was leaving for a while.
[said you were too mean to him
and he couldn't take the pain anymore ]
AS> ... "I think not," said Descartes; and promptly disappeared. ___ Blue
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
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|From: John Prewett
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 28 Jan 96 17:53:56
EID:da55 203c8ea0
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 126a1ca5
FMPT 1012
Gt> ........St. Francis is the easiest to filk,
Gt> I think he was a closet pagan)
That's what I keep trying to tell you guys !
WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: John Prewett
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 29 Jan 96 16:18:16
EID:7392 203d8240
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 126a1caa
FMPT 1012
DW> 24 Jan 96 15:42, John Prewett wrote to David Worrell:
DW> How often do you hear people say why does God allow such evil to exist?
DW> A points reached when God judges a land. He judges the opponents of
DW> Israel for some unspecified abomionations, yet he does not judge Nazi
DW> Germany? That's a pretty fucked up God you worship.
JP> Seen any pictures of 1945 Berlin ? Dresden ?
DW> Yep. God was nowhere to be seen. Plenty of Allied troops seemed to
DW> be hanging about the place, though. I wonder what they were there for?
JP> Nazi Germany lost. Israel was born, impetus in large measure
JP> supplied by the Nazi led holocaust. Many Germans of that generation
JP> reduced to poverty. Nazi became a synonym for evil. That's judgment.
DW> Nope. That's superior firepower. No God necessary.
DW> Do you have a picture of God walking around Dresden or Berlin in 1945?
Shame on me for taking the time to communicate with you.
I forgot you were a dope. WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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|From: John Prewett
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: LYNDA GOES OVER...
|Date: 29 Jan 96 17:17:04
EID:0426 203d8a20
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 126a1cab
FMPT 1012
AS> antisemetic paranoia, and although I like John Prewitt more than
AS> Grigor-Scott, I make no secret that I think his anti-Catholicism
AS> is bigotry [-----------]
However, blaming generic "Christians" for deeds committed
by Roman [pope-led] Catholics is just fine with you.
JP> And I know that your inability to see [or admit seeing]
JP> the significance of a con-artist in Rome claiming to lead
JP> and RULE Jesus's Church
JP> [claim taken seriously by millions for centuries]
JP> shows your extreme spiritual retardation or corruption,...
AS> Fortunately, neither you and I can judge each other, John. Jesus does.
JP> but it's not my job to judge which problem you have.
AS> [--------] and his JFK-is-Antichrist idea is laughable.
JP> Demonstrating your pathetic blindness regarding God's Revelation,
JP> which you share with avowed heathens,....
JP> like most puffed up [with hot air] liberal "christians."
AS> If JFK had been the Antichrist, he would have used the Button and
AS> started an atomic war that put us all in the Stone Age,
AS> all the better to rule us with. Q.E.D.
Your above just demonstrates that your respect for and
understanding the Revelation's description of the final
"beast" is about equal to the average avowed heathens.
JP> [Your not agreeing about JFK is completely understandable, but if you
JP> knew much about and believed the Revelation, then you would be wise
JP> enough to know the JFK prediction is not really "laughable."
AS> Ludicrously unlikely? The phrase, "deceive the very elect" mean
AS> anything to you?
AS> Now, if someone SAINTED Kennedy, maybe you might have a case.
As a matter of fact, the mass media virtually "sainted" JFK.
Facts that would destroy another celebrity,
are, in JFK's case, given the best possible "spin."
Many people know the press gave JFK a "free ride."
Life magazine turned JFK the gangster family playboy
into America's favorite family man.
JP> It's "laughable" only to people
JP> who are retarded re the Revelation.
AS> I will simply wait upon the times, thanks. [----------]
If you're as smart as you think you are, you'll ease off
on the scornful attitude while you're waiting.
However, those forgiven much will love much.
AS> ......... I think the end of the world, when it comes, WILL come
AS>in a form totally unlooked for, yet consistent with the predictions...
World famous "terrible head wound" .......
World famous connection to the "Great Whore"
World famous, making "amazed the world" feasible
Christians should be able to identify the "G.W."
Christians should see that JFK is uniquely
"consistent with the predictions."
AS> ..... just as the Jews were too busy looking for the priest-king
AS> -David they were expecting to recognize Jesus for what He was.
Yep.
JP> IOW- to heathens and modern liberal "christians."
JP> You're presently on about the same level as a scripturally literate
JP> Jew of Jesus's generation who contended that Jesus's claim of
JP> fulfilling the "Messiah" prophetic description was "laughable."
AS> Possibly, very possibly.
AS> But we will have to see what happens, won't we?
To know for POSITIVE, yes.
JP> The Vatican obviously uniquely fulfills God's Revelation description
JP> of the "Great Whore,", but that fulfillment
JP> is invisible to man-pleasing modern protestants.
AS> Well, quite frankly, I think the Roman Empire
AS> and Roman Emperors are closer to the reality there. [-----]
Quite frankly, I think you think that because the truth
threatens your smug contentment with the status quo.
JP> Just like Jesus's fulfillment was invisible to status quo loving
JP> Israelites of that generation.
AS> Could be. [------------------]
Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him,
but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue; John 12:42
"They will make you outcasts from the synagogue,
but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you
to think that he is offering service to God. John 16:2
Jesus's TRUTH will separate one from what is commonly known
as organized "christian" religion, liken to back then.
"For the word of God is living and active.
Sharper than any double-edged sword,
it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow;
it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight.
Everything is uncovered and laid bare
before the eyes of him to whom we must give account." Heb. 4:12-13
JP> Re.Lynda- Maria Russell never launched any personal slanders to
JP> deserve the following from Lynda to heathens ]
[--------------------------------------------]
MR> [--------------------------------------------]
LB> Maria, have you seriously pondered anything of more importance than
LB> what shade of nailpolish will match your outfit in recent years?
AS> They certainly don't get along. And I think that is mainly because
AS> Lynda sees in Maria's attitudes the SAME sort of attitude that got her
AS> BEATEN and RAPED by her ex. If she takes it more personally than we
AS> do...well, maybe she has a reason to.
That is so very lame.
JP> ------------------------ SNIP --------------------------
MR> As an obedient wife I would have to listen. ...........
LB> Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maria admits she has no life!!
AS> Read above again. 1. Maria's husband hypothetically implores Maria to
AS> get a life. 2. As an obedient wife she has to listen, in her view, and
AS> so, those words have never crossed her husband's lips...indicating
AS> that she does not have a life. (Because if those words had crossed her
AS> husband's lips, she would have a life.) 3. Lynda points out the
AS> obvious. It's Maria's own words which imply what Lynda pointed out.
Maria's cruel scorn for a Christian women who is proudly an
"obedient wife" is to be expected from scripture despising HEATHENS.
Your agreement with Lynda's heathenish analysis is noted.
WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/1 2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125
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