God Damned Fundies!
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: state theocracy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:04
EID:efe9 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef2
TID: GE/2 1.2
KY>> Exactly, the churches aren't to control the govt.
RC> Tell it to the Christian Coalition.
KY> Just because I am a CHristian does not mean that I will agree
KY> with everything every Christian does.
Nor did I imply such a thing. I'm cognizant of the divisions within
your Christian family of religions, and the differences of opinion
which many individuals who identify themselves as Christians have.
Still, you should tell it to the Christian Coalition. I already know.
KY> I may agree with most of the beliefs
I don't care what you *believe*, Ken. Tell me when you manage to THINK.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: Idiocy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:05
EID:38b1 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef3
TID: GE/2 1.2
DR> It was the profanity that I said could be done without.
Bloated Buddhas! Did you find half a worm after taking a Bite out
of Christ? Has the Holy Spook been scrambling your brains? What god
crawled up your ass to be crucified, anyway?
(It could be done *with*, too.)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: Profanity
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:06
EID:9050 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef4
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Marilyn Burge
DR> The fact remains, however, That just about any man views a
DR> gutter-mouthed female as being less than virtuous.
You must know a lot of easily frightened and dimwitted men, to
make that claim if it's supposed to be based on your experience.
DR> You see, Marilyn ++ the Bible is a good book to follow
DR> the edicts and precepts of even if you don't believe in God.
Then why do you personally ignore most of the edicts and precepts
contained therein?
The bible is just an anthology. A little dusty, maybe, but please.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:07
EID:fdda 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef5
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Karen Davis
KD>> The debunking is not the issue. I firmly believe people can
KD>> believe what they please, but I will debunk religious statements
KD>> when I have the opportunity. That's not antitheist.
RC> It's anti-bullshit.
DH> Precisely.
DH> I maintain that if bullshit were illegal we would need no more
DH> than 10% of the laws we now have.
But we would also have a sudden rise in the crime rate.
Hell, Al Schroeder's bullshit alone would easily quadruple the number
of crimes committed in the state of Tennessee if it were criminalized.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: Smegma Staalin
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:08
EID:e670 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef6
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Will you next be informing me that "mathematics" is plural
RC> because it too ends in an 's'? Or how about the United States
RC> of America?
MB> But, of course! So's "jackass."
A plural twice over, no less.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: GOD: PSYCHOPATHIC LIAR
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:09
EID:14a8 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef7
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Then why does the idea of hell still bother me?
rh> Because you still have a shred of human decency left in you?
rh> Because religion has not -totally- rotted your brain yet?
FR> I would tend to doubt both suggestions. He fears the myth
FR> of "hell" because indoctrination by his cult masters. While
FR> it's true he's managed to tailor pet gods according to his
FR> own pet wishes, he still suffers from a great many abusive
FR> ideologies programmed into him by his masters.
FR> I don't see this one ever overcoming his problems.
No. Not likely at all.
Especially when he blames his disgustingly repulsive behavior
on the "misunderstanding" of his selected victims.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: christian Ignorance
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:10
EID:6d71 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef8
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> Steiny: Do you now, or have you ever, own any dog
DW> collars, chains DW>whips, or spiked heels?
DW> Azir....only the ones I am saving for you
DW> I don't share your disgusting sexual perversion,
DW> steinbot. Thanks for thinking of me, though.
DW> Azir....believe me, it was only an extremely brief
DW> thought...
DW> Who was it that said thinking of sex was just as bad
DW> as having sex?
DW> Azir....I think it was your mother
DW> * Azirafel rofls
DW> Az, Jesus is your MAMA?!
LOL!
See there; you don't miss all the good ones. Now go wash your face.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JAN DEBOER
|Sub: dos internet
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:11
EID:43f6 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef9
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> Someone here was recently talking about accessing the
DW> Internet with DOS.
DW> I stumbled upon the following URL that might be of help:
DW> http://www.fdisk.com/doslynx/
RC> Well, they'll first need a TCP/IP program to establish
RC> connectivity to begin with before being able to use that
RC> text-based web browser (except with their own local HTML files).
RC> For accessing the Internet, you could call the TCP/IP program a
RC> requirement, even.
JD> Nope! I can access the internet, using the same Qmodem software
JD> that I also access local BBS's with.
Yes, a freenet or shell account will provide access. I bow to your
greater skill in nitpicking. :-)
Doesn't help a bit for using DosLynx on your own system, though.
JD> All you need is an Internet provider that offers text-only
JD> access. MANY Freenets use this mode ONLY, and are running
JD> LYNX. Check your local Freenet.
Yes, I helped the Suncoast Freenet technical director find a few
security loopholes when Lynx was first set up there.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:00
EID:ce3b 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d9469
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> What is the practical difference between "the smallest
JB> possible NONZERO number," and "a minimum-possible increment
JB> of thingness"--an "individualized entity?"
While you might as well use those phrases interchangeably, John,
neither of them describes an infinitesimal number. Sorry. You are
going to need something else.
JB> You're too much like me;
Except I've never whined about my name in someone's origin line.
JB> sometimes I think you like to argue an opposite position
JB> merely to see if you can find a way around an otherwise
JB> logically sensible argument.
You need to get the terms straight in your head before beginning any
attempt at a logical argument, please.
JB> With you as teacher, I'd learn how best to argue against
JB> _anything_ in math,
With me as a tutor, being paid the appropriate fee (Fidonet's a
hobby, so I'm off the clock here), you could potentially learn how
not only to argue about math, but also how to verify your answers
to see if they are correct, a step that is at least as important as
any argument, though you would apparantly differ.
JB> and I'd probably learn more of the art of the put-down,
No, I'd have to refer you to the Worrell School of Snide Remarks
because he has superior qualifications in that area. Nor does
my tutoring involve indulgence in the type of entertainment that
is so well afforded by the HolySmoke echo; you might consider
that people can distinguish between their different activities. :-)
JB>> there would be a SUBinfinite number
RC> Could 'finite' be the word you're looking for?
JB> I wasn't looking for it. But, sorry. Yes. Habit caused me
JB> to avoid "finite," since I'm used to dealing with a few _just_
JB> 'subinfinite' items. That is, "finite" can be anything
JB> between nothing and just short of infinity, but my "writer's
JB> mind" feels "subinfinite" implies something closer to the
JB> infinite than to nothing. Perhaps not. "Finite" would do for
JB> us, but not for T-verse, in relation to which I find myself
JB> preferring "subinfinite" (most often with the qualifier "_just_."
Where someone with a lower crackpot index would simply say finite,
but large. Or even very large. But your ego is not satisfied with
anything but your own private lingo, now, is it?
JB>> in a math based on infinitesimals,
RC> You don't even know what an infinitesimal is, John, so why do you
JB> I know _several_ infinitesimals.
By name? Susan? George?
JB> A couple are "the smallest possible nonzero number,"
Bzzzzt. Sorry, Mr. Dumpty, but if you do that again, you'd really
better not pirch atop any walls, if you catch my drift.
JB> and "the least-possible increment of thingness, short of
JB> NO-Thing-ness."
That would be your excessively crackpottish manner of restating the
above, yes. All the king's horses won't help you, though, if they
can't understand what you're going on about simply because you insist
on using a nonstandard language. The result, not to be unexpected,
will be their wandering off without any interest in putting you back
together again. Then your pieces can try to communicate nonlocally.
JB> However, if there IS an infinitesimal number--if the number
JB> line is treated as composed of _discrete_ entities,
John, how many times have I already informed you of the qualitative
difference between the independent properties of (on the one hand)
infinitesimals, and (on the other hand) discrete entities?
Five times? Ten? A thousand? How many times before it sinks in?
JB> I'm learning new categories, anyway. I used to have a category
JB> that had "lawyers," "doctors," and "priests" in it. I suspect
JB> it'll end up having "mathematicians" in it as well....
The School of Snide Remarks is the second door on the left. Please
seek remedial education there, as the above is one of the most
pitiful attempts I've ever seen (surpassed in pathos only by the
followup claim of, "But I wasn't even trying!").
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:01
EID:60aa 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> Infinitesimals, as Leibniz applied them intuitively, are quite
RC>> continuous, actually. Now if you had said nonarchimedean.... :-)
JB>> AAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh!
JB>> Please demonstrate that infinitesimals, "as Leibniz applied them
JB>> intuitively" are "quite continuous?"
RC> Please demonstrate first that you understand the definitions of
RC> both "infinitesimal" and "continuous."
JB> Nah: I asked you first.
But when you ask for a demonstration, John, it will mean nothing to you
unless you understand the basic vocabulary right up front. First, you
learn the vocabulary. Then, when you make progress with that, comes the
work *with* the mastered vocabulary -- you have to walk before you can
run a marathon race.
JB> I'd watch a 'what is math?'-type argument between you and
JB> Peter Diehr with interest, I'm sure....
Perhaps one day when you learn to swim, you'll even be allowed in
the deep end of the pool.
RC> You don't seem to realize that your crackpot notions do not use
RC> novel mathematical ideas -- but that's because you are ignorant
JB> Baloney. A point-without-a-background is apparently not a
JB> 'usual' mathematical idea.
LOL! You seem content with your little dogma on the matter, so don't
let me disturb you with the facts. Just because you didn't learn it
yourself in grammar school doesn't mean it's a novel idea.
JB> Nor is a network without a coordinate system it's embedded in.
ROFLMAO! Does the word "graph" mean anything to you in that context?
Apparantly not. You sure have a major ego packed away in that
tremendously huge area of ignorance, John.
JB> These are not "novel," perhaps, but they aren't easily seen to
JB> be 'standard,' either.
The first is _trivial_. Those things are generally passed over except
by certain people who enjoy knowing them, or who need to take them
into account for various reasons. As for your hilarious belief that
graph theory is not standard, what can I do but laugh?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: source of info
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:02
EID:3196 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946b
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I'm interested in seeing whether the mistake is yours or
RC> Berlinski's (elsewhere you claim that he doesn't know the
RC> correct spelling of Leibniz, odd for someone writing of
RC> the man's historical contributions).
JB> It's worse: new info is that D. Berlinski, while supposedly
JB> an expert in _math_, has written an anti-type book about
JB> evolution, in which he is said to make some pretty gross errors
JB> of understanding.
I've not yet run by the Largo library to check out the citation
you kindly provided.
Anyway, Goedel was an *extremely* paranoid religious nut who believed
in demons, but it didn't hurt his mathematical abilities. I am half
expecting this Berlinski to be anything but a "math expert," though.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: leggo my ego
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:03
EID:6b69 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946c
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> Then, you're not curious about the geotopological object itself,
JB> whether or not it might model something of physics....
Your bag of greasy marbles is not interesting, John, no.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:04
EID:1d63 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946d
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> Cantor could not at last escape the conclusion there had
JB>> to be a sort of top-level infinity.
RC> I've already been over this once with you, John. Cantor's
RC> mystical beliefs in an "Absolute" (his notion of a god)
RC> were not math. He was aware of the fact that it's easy to
RC> prove there's no largest infinity.
JB> It is,
Yes.
For ordinal numbers, Hector's method of adding ones will suffice
to provide new ordinals. That will not produce new cardinals,
however, but as Cantor himself knew, the power set of any set
is necessarily of a greater cardinality than the original set.
Thus, there is no largest cardinal number either.
JB> yet it's easy to grant one must 'exist': simply that infinity
JB> of which all other infinities are subsets.
Then you would also say it's "easy to grant" that a barber must
exist who shaves everyone (and only everyone) who does not shave
himself? Your approach is logically naive, and prone to errors
that you've insufficiently considered.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: set theory
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:05
EID:c1e7 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946e
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> I saw your post to Al.
RC> Did you learn anything from it?
JB> Yeah; you don't treat Al any better'n you treat _me_.
But I don't find you repulsively disgusting. I happen to like
crackpots as a general rule.
JB> (*chuckle*) At least you're consistent....
Hilbert would be so proud.
JB> Most 'fundamental' axioms are simple, so why not just TELL me
JB> what's wrong with what I said?
You've given me no good reason to waste my time thusly.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub: Tetrahedracrock
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:06
EID:8607 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946f
TID: GE/2 1.2
MOVED FROM PHYSICS:
with: Jeff Sterling
JS> Either way, I don't want to discuss it with you anymore. I am
JS> sick of this foolishness. Please do not send me any more messages
JS> dealing with T-verse. Until someone (anyone) for whom I have a
JS> great deal more respect tells me you have come up with some kind
JS> of evidence, I will ignore any messages from you having to do
JS> with T-verse.
JB> As you wish.
Lynda, can we grant Al B. points to people in other echos who get
the qualifying response from a quantum stand in?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:14
EID:8fa5 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478547
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> It's easier than that. Al's omniscient god (if he had one) simply
HP>> waits until the bomber decides to make his bomb to kill someone.
HP>> It then notes the bomber's decision, delivers a fatal cardial
HP>> infarction, the bomber drops dead (soul whizzing off to hell
HP>> without passing "Go"), and that's that.
SA> Actually, that does not give the bomber time to "repent"...
Al's gods are supposed to be omniscient. They _know_ if the bomber will
repent
or not. If it's necessary to allow the bomber to actually go through with
the
act, it should be a simple matter for omnipotent beings to play the scenario
out
in something like a divine holodeck, where no one gets hurt in the slightest.
___
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--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:18
EID:c4d6 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478549
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RV> No good Hector. Till the bomb is planted and hir walks away from the
RV> action. No crime has been done, no one hurt.
Omniscient beings know what you decide to do, know if you will carry it
through,
and even know if you'll repent (or would, if such critters existed).
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:22
EID:6f65 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854b
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DR> duuuuuuuuuuuhuhhhhhhhhhh
How intelligent of you.
___
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--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:26
EID:4b10 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854d
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DC>>> BTW, were is Prewet? You didn't set him adrift on an ice floe,
HP>> He's been mentally marooned for years. I saw his
HP>> hellfire-and-numerology web page a few nights ago.
DC> Anything different than he used to spout off around here?
No. BTW, he claims he'll be dropping into #holysmoke soon (I invited him).
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:30
EID:57c2 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854f
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were a
lot
KY> better.
Yep. It's gotten to where the cops actually try to arrest you if you burn
a
witch nowadays.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies 2/2
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:34
EID:e02d 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478551
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DR> Produce what? Evidence that _you_ would believe, Einstein?
ROFL! You've yet to produce _any_, Davey.
DR> I would have to _be_ God to _prove_ God
Ain't it funny how you don't have to _be_ your next door neighbor in order
to go
look at some evidence that _he_ exists? Why is that, I wonder? Think _you_
can
figure it out, troll?
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:38
EID:c9ee 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478553
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
KY> If God doesn't know the truth, I do not know who would..
Well, can't argue with this one. You do not know who would know the truth.
In
fact, you wouldn't know a truth if it crawled into the empty space between
your
ears and whistled "Dixie."
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: death
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:42
EID:523c 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478555
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>>> Anyone who claims to be a believer and claims to understand
AS>>>> all the whys and wherefores of the Incarnation, Crucifixion,
AS>>>> and Resurrection has a bigger ego than I.
RC>>> Perhaps I should consult Brawley, then (although you win on sheer
RC>>> volume and condescension, there are some areas in which he gets
RC>>> the prize).
AS>> Uhhh, Robert. What makes you think Brawley has any interest in the
AS>> Crucifixion? As far as I can tell, he has never endorsed any
AS>> particular flavor of theism with his quantum god.
JB> Nor could I.
You and Al -- dumb and dumber. Rather obviously, Bulldog's comparing the
size
of your monstrously and artificially swollen egos here.
Sheesh.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Feb 97 09:02:00
EID:a479 22464840
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81ab4
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9e458
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Exemplifying examples:
MG> Perfect? Why does he starve people to death?
ky> I wasn't aware God did that.. People do that all on
ky> their own.
RS> Which God?
ky> Isn't it obvious?
No, if it was, I wouldn't have asked. There are millions of
Gods according to the world's religions . . . your Bible
even mentions about a dozen or two. What's the matter,
don't know the name of your God?
ky> There is only one god.
Have you any evidence of this? If so, you would have to be
refuting your Bible, which mentions many. And, btw, WHICH
God would that be?
ky> If I meant another, meaning a false god,
Like YHVH?
ky> then I would have mentioned their names..
Whose names?
ky> so they would be contributing to the problem..
RS> But why doesn't your DEITY help? According to your Bible,
RS> It has in the past. Why does It allow people to starve to
RS> death now, when It's helped in the past?
ky> God does help people often..
WHICH GOD? Got any evidence for this claim of it helping?
ky> But without faith in Him, a
Faith in WHO?
ky> society may not be as blessed as it used to be.
So, you only get help if you suck up? Nice Deity you got
there.
ky> If you look at it, it is society that causes starvation,
ky> not God..
RS> Which God? And so your Deity can do nothing about it?
ky> It is a two way street. If people really refuse to do
ky> what is needed, that is their choice.
By this you mean what, people are refusing to eat? LOL! I
thought your Deity (whatever it's name is) was supposed to
be a Deity of unconditional love. Doesn't look like it from
THIS example, does it?
DC> Who controls the weather, Ken? If your god can't
DC> provide suffienct rain for those that need it, he
DC> isn't much of a god.
ky> Not His fault the people turns their backs on Him.
RS> So It only gives food to those who believe in him?
RS> Pretty selfish Deity you got yourself there. So
RS> much for unconditional love, huh?
ky> Love and limitless giving are two different things.
When you stop giving to the person you love, you stop loving
them. Love, in part, is a willingness to give unto others.
Either your Deity loves people, or it doesn't. So far the
evidence seems to indicate that it doesn't.
ky> And is it so much to ask, really? All He asks is that we
ky> believe and accept. Until we start doing that, things will
ky> continue to go down hill.
Who?
ky> Anyway, God lets these happen, He doesn't cause them.
RS> And so, by Its own inaction, It causes people to starve to
RS> death, though supposedly with little or no effort, It could
RS> save them.
RS> Sounds like a personal problem to me. It would appear to me
RS> that I am more loving and friendly than your Deity, for I
RS> have done my part at various times to help feed others. You
RS> should worship me instead.
BTW, I note some editting going on here . . .
ky> Well, what type of eternity insurance plan do you have? :)
Why would anyone need to insure eternity? It isn't as
though eternity is going to have an accident and die,
thereby no longer being eternity. Still looks like I'm more
loving than your Deity, Ken.
ky> And how can God
Which God?
ky> not be loving when He
Who?
ky> came up with a way for us all to have everlasting life
ky> in Heaven?
Where?
... Man came before woman.. -- Ken `Patriot' Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 06 Feb 97 09:28:02
EID:b615 22464b80
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81cee
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9ea72
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Mormonism IS Christianit:
RS> Well, you lead the way . . .
ky> First, militias are not for the Christians, alone. Many
ky> Jews, Pagans, Atheists, etc. are in militias. People from
ky> all walks of life are in them. Are there any militias run
ky> by CHristians, and more for them? SUre.. But there are
ky> those, for all, as well..
RS> Really? Name three. And name your source for this info; is
RS> it Militia Weekly or some other theme magazine? Or just
RS> your imaginatiion?
ky> According to the militias themselves..
Really? As I said, name three.
ky> I have heard of
ky> several Jewish militia members, and I met one Pagan one
One what? Militia? Militia member? As I said, name three.
ky> that used to be in a Florida militia.
Very well, name three.
ky> I also have been corresponding with another
ky> Pagan that is considering starting one.
That doesn't mean that it is a militia yet. Even YOU should
be able to understand that, Ken. Like I said, name THREE.
ky> ANyone that believes the govt. has gone too
ky> far in America, can have a militia.
Sure, they CAN. But a potential militia is not a real
militia. Name three (JUST THREE) non-Xtian militias.
ky> It is for all walks of life..
That may be, but so far you haven't sustained this with
evidence. Name three, Ken.
ky> ANd how anyone can put the word hate and Promise Keepers
ky> in the same sentence, is beyond me..
RS> It's remarkably easy, as it is with other Fundy Xtian
RS> organizations. Consider:
RS> "I want to be invisible. I do guerilla warfare. I
RS> paint my face and travel at night. You don't know
RS> it's over until you're in a body bag. You don't know
RS> until election night." -- Ralph Reed, Xtian Coalition
ky> Hmm.. I do believe we were talking about PK..
Did you not see the words `as with other Fundy Xtian
Organizations.' Ken? Or do you lack basic reading skills?
ky> But you have yet to show how they are violent.
Excuse me, but how do you equate violence and hatred, the
latter of which is what we were talking about? And THEY
who? The Xtian (Hey, Let's Kill Abortion Doctors For
Christ!) Coalition or the Promise (Let's Curb Women's Civil
Liberties) Keepers?
ky> Rather, they are too peaceful and accepting..
LOL . . .
ky> Really, if you knew what they truly believed, I doubt
ky> you would even call them fundies, for the most part.
@@@@@@X @@@@@@X @@@@@@@@X @@@@@@X @@X @@X @@X @@X
@@__@@_ @@__@@_ __@@____ @@_____ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@_
@@@@@@_ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@@@X @@_ @@_ @@_ @@_
@@_@@__ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@___ @@_ __ __ __
@@_ @@_ @@@@@@_ @@_ @@_ @@@@@@X @@X @@X @@X
__ __ ______ __ __ ______ __ __ __
You'd lose that bet, Ken.
... y6@eY{+0+0+0+00000000[(f -- Ken `Patriot' Young
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: .
|Date: 07 Feb 97 10:02:56
EID:82a6 22475040
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f52620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fb4420
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Al Schroeder about .:
as> When it comes to pies, I prefer lemon meringue anyway...
LB> A real Sourpuss, eh? ;)
as> Also, last I heard, there were no lemon-flavored
as> laxatives, which seems to be one of the main
as> ingredients of the chocolate pie proferred by the
as> Triple Goddess of #irc...
ROD> Don't you mean:
ROD> "...last I tasted"?
Aparently, Al hasn't heard that liquid detergent can act as
a super-laxative, as can other (non-chocolate-flavored)
agents. And, of course, syrup of Ipicac is clear and fairly
tasteless, though not a laxative . . .
... THAT'S MOOSE TURD PIE!!! But it's good, though . .
.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:09:06
EID:85a2 22465120
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f412
Hello All!
Well, religious zealotry and bigotry have hit the Pagan
community here locally again. One of the members of our
group was the unhappy recipient of a home search by police,
etc., the other night. They were, obstensibly, looking for
stuff to put her husband (a Mormon, I should point out, that
apparently believes in the old fashioned Xtian ethic: beat
the shit out of your wife every chance you get) away on.
He, apparently, had been telling them that his wife (a
Wiccan) was involved with demonic things (LOL), because when
they came in they looked exclusively at her Craft materials,
more or less. The confiscated some hot sauce in a jar in the
fridge because it might be human blood. The opened her
personal luggage because she might have some human heads in
there. And so on and so on. The confiscated some of her
working tools (athames . . . just two short daggers as it
turns out . . . which are only illegal according to
California Penal Code 12020 if they are concealed on
someone's person) and herbs/incense materials (that
dastardly sage, saltpeter, etc.) without leaving receipts
(which is illegal), and so on, all while she was at work.
They did tell him that she was evil, and that he needed to
stay away from her. They also told him that there were a
lot of Satanic Cults out there, and that Satanism is
epidemic in this country. Apparently, they've never read
the Lanning Report.
So, he calls her, she calls me, I call a Pagan-friendly
attorney. She calls the officers back with the Penal Code
citation, etc. Much hemming and hawwing. The athames are
still illegal, no matter what the Penal Code says. Then
they want names and addresses of people she worships with.
She, being a good wiccan priestess, refuses to tell them.
Then they just want MY name and number. Buffoons. Again,
she refuses. And again, she mentions that the athames
(which had been packed away when they came in) was not
illegal. Since her husband is on probation (don't ask, just
let me state here: sex crimes and child abuse), they have
the right to search HIS stuff and confiscate HIS weapons.
That much is true. But they are not allowed to go into her
things. Still, the athames, etc., cannot be on the premises
. . . to this she agrees. She then says that if they'll
return them to her, or to me, that we will keep them at my
house so that he cannot be tempted to run amok with two itty
bitty daggers in Sacramento.
Then, according to them, if I come down and pick them up
from the officers, they'll arrest me as soon as I leave the
building.
Let me just say that my curiousity, and badger, is piqued,
so to speak. If you folks don't hear from me for a bit, it
may be because I'm cooling my heels downtown.
Granted, it was a BIG mistake for our friend to marry this
jerk. She herself is slowly realizing this. But she had
problems before she even met him. As a matter of fact, she
met him in a mental institution where she'd checked herself
into for a couple of weeks to try to come to terms with some
things. It was a sudden thing, as when we first met her,
she was self-assured and confidant and showed no signs of
mental instability. During their brief marriage (less than
two years at this point) he's refused to let her worship as
she wishes, has single-handedly put her in debt to the tune
of $50,000 (she had to declare bankrupcy just a short while
ago), has stolen from her on a regular basis, including
stealing and selling her things, as well as leave her
beaten, bloody, and cowwed much of the time. Her weight has
increased 50%, and she never seems to look anywhere but the
floor. It was the Mormon in him that made him do this,
according to him. She recently decided that she needed to
divorce him, and we were helping her facilitate that to the
best of our ability. He, of course, is less than pleased.
So, just another day in the land dominated by the followers
of a savage God. Stay tuned for updates. And send me a
file in a cake if I go to the Big House, okay? Or a
chocolate pie to share with the guards.
... Deuteronomy 13:1-5: Kill those who speak of other religions.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:22:08
EID:c6bd 224652c0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81e3a
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f720
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about ...:
LB> since he only put up with death for three days.
ky> The main difference is that they were criminals..
ky> Christ wasn't guilty of anything..
RS> Then why was he tried and sentenced?
ky> Let me ask you..
You mean you don't know? LOL . . .
ky> Why do you think he was tried and sentenced?
I don't think he was tried and sentenced. I don't think he
existed at all.
BTW, answering a question with a question in order to not
answer the original question is step four in the Fundy
Shuffle. Did you realize that you were dancing?
ky> There weren't any real crimes that he committed..
Got any evidence of this? Doesn't your Babble, er, Bible
list crimes that he was charged with? If not, then it may
not have happened, and your whole religion may be make
believe. Should we call Trolley and ride it to the Land of
Make Believe?
RS> And, btw, if he HADN'T
RS> been crucified, Xtianity wouldn't exist today would it? In
RS> essence, you and every Xtian are dependent on the torture
RS> and death of (by your own words) a blameless individual.
RS> Real, true, Xtian love there . . .
I note that you ignore this completely. What are you afraid
of, the truth?
ky> You really missed the point, didn't you?
No, I saw the top of your head. I'm just too well-mannered
to comment on the misfortunes of others.
ky> Jesus came
It's about time. How long have you been in him? And he
only now just came? You're a prettty pathetic lover, Ken.
ky> to give us everlasting life,
You mean no one ever dies? You're full of shit. Name ONE
person who has never died, who WILL never die. Just one.
Technically, this should be easier than you having to supply
the names of three non-Xtian militias, don't you think?
Ooops, sorry, of course you don't. My mistake.
ky> so yes, his death was a large part of the plan.
Then why are all the Xtians bitching and moaning about him
having died (if he ever existed, that is) if that was part
of the plan? Kind of sanctimonious, if you ask me.
ky> As well as his return was..
His return? What return?
ky> Not just death, but resurrection..
The ALLEDGED ressurection. Got any non-Biblical evidence
for it, Ken?
... Famous Gods of the Bible #03! (ACT 19:35) Diana of the Ephesians.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:27:10
EID:8bce 22465360
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81f02
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f84e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Naked Pagan Rituals:
ky> Nowhere does it say babies will go to Hell.. Rather it is
ky> reemphasizing that we are born with a wicked nature.. But,
ky> babies do not go to Hell, simply because they are not at
ky> the age of accountability yet.
RS> Great! Then abortion is a good idea for those babies! They
RS> never sin, and they go to Heaven. What could be better for
RS> them? Thanx for admitting this to us.
KY> Just because one goes to Heaven, that means we have the right
ky> to kill them?
Who said anything about secular law, Ken?
KY> Then we might as well kill all Christians, as they will go
KY> to Heaven anyway..
Sounds like a good idea, Ken. I'm glad you suggested it.
It would have looked bad for a non-Xtian like myself to
suggest it, but since it was you, I have to agree with you
that within the tenets of your faith, it would probably be a
good idea.
Now don't get cocky just because I agreed with you once.
How do you want to kill all the Xtians?
ky> But then, you probably would like open season on
ky> Christians..
No, I personally wouldn't. And it was your idea. I'm fine
with leaving them alone as long as they leave me and mine
alone. You're the one with the problem with them, Ken.
Nice insinuation, btw. Too bad it was formulated by a
moron.
KY> No, we all need to be given a chance at life..
Why? Based on what?
... Ken Young believes that all Xtians should die and go to Heaven.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:32:12
EID:ab4f 22465400
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f7e47b
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f97c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about ...:
dr> women (and children for that matter) with an air
dr> of innocence about them.
dr> Something for you and Marilyn and all women to think
dr> about...
RS> What, that if they behave as though they are `fwagile
RS> fwowers' rather than real people, if they allow men to put
DC> Just sit back, Richard. And, do stay away from the water.
Glad to, but how can I get a snack that way?
DC> I see a feeding frenzy about to happen.
Another of the amazing prophecies of God Dan!
DC> Ragland doesn't quite understand that he's not just the
DC> bait, he's the mid-night snack.
Ragland doesn't quite understand underwear.
DC> And, as Al once said: "It will be SOOOO bloody!"
LOL . . . yep, looking forward to it . . .
... As it turns out, I am actually "that" stupid. -- David Ragland
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:35:14
EID:5a53 22465460
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f9174d
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9fa32
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa:
RS> GDI?
DC> Gamma Delta Iota, one of the fastest growing
DC> fraternities on
DC> Oh yeah, AKA God Damned Indepenent!
RS> Goat Divinities International?
DC> I like the new, upgraded version!
Sounded good to me too . . .
RS> a member of any club that would have someone like me for
RS> a member . . .
DC> That's exactly why we all "joined" it and made it such a
DC> success!
LOL . . .
DC> ... "With a lot of hard work, he'll be ready in 10 more years" Chuin
Don't let the Master of the House of Sinanju catch you
misspelling his name . . .
He'll REMO you . . .
... A club is just an excuse to drink beer. - my wife Your point? -
me
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apocalypse Now
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:23:16
EID:918e 22465ae0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f9191f
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa0574
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Apocalypse Now:
DC> Nice to see you back!
RS> Thanx, nice to be back, albeit sporadically. I see that
DC> Problems with your feed, or just too much else to do?
The former, in a way. It took a month longer than I had
counted on to get the second line hooked up (I installed the
wiring the first day we were here, but PacBell had to take
care of victims of the flooding first). And now that it's
all hooked up again, it's not acting right. It gags, pukes,
and freezes up on large message packets now, and there's a
lot of problems along with that. I may need to find more
memory for the computer. And, as far as I can tell, I'm the
only BBS in Sacramento picking up HolySmoke, so it's not as
though I can go elsewhere . . .
RS> apparently we lost the Superior Intellect from England,
DC> You forgot to put quotes around that!
I was hoping the Superior Intellect from England would
correct me himself. Did he just disappear, or did he have a
nice parting shot?
RS> (And, btw, do you at last have a working EMail address?)
DC> No, not yet. Shelby's working on getting the local E-mail
DC> setup to accept my posts as a point. So far, no luck.
Well, considering that my EMail/NetMail capabilities are
non-existent at the moment until I get the machine
functioning better, it's probably just as well.
... Hell: Mail packet of 1500 messages by Schroender, Appletoon, & Wiens.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: weird sexual aftermaths
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:26:18
EID:532a 22465b40
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f8abcc
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa062a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about weird sexual aftermaths:
DW> I still don't know what the hell a nit comb is, though.
EM> A little plastic comb with very fine teeth, usually
EM> included in the box with your bottle of antiparasitic
EM> shampoo.
EM> Used to remove unwanted arachnids from the pubic fuzz.
EM> I finally gave up on the shampoo, however. My horticulturally
EM> obsessed roommate's bottle of Ortho Aphid Death did the trick,
EM> but it burned like hell.
RS> I guess that's easier than training a bird to sit on your
RS> head and keep the nits down . . .
RS>... Jesus to crowd: "No! I said picnic not pick nits! Damn apes."
RS> -gr/DC
JD> Definitely a sign of old age or terminal boredom when they
JD> reminisce about the crab nebula.....
Now you're just being shellfish . . .
... Man cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Confirmed miracles
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:34:20
EID:61e1 22465c40
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f81bb9
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa080c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about Confirmed miracles:
DM> And just what "scientists" might these be? Names, please, and
DM> the peer-reviewed journal in which they published their data*.
jf> There have been reports in the news of paintings of Mary crying.
DM> And the Hindus have several statues of an Elephant God of theirs
DM> that does the same thing, only with tears of milk. There is a
DM> lot of that going around this season.
RS> The Deity in question, Ganesa or Ganesh, really shouldn't be
RS> weeping tears of MILK. Considering the tales of his drunken
RS> driving (he rides a rat) through the streets of various
RS> cities, milk should be the LAST thing flowing from him.
JD> The crying Mary painting:.....the Priest of the Greek
JD> church (in Toronto) seems to be followed by these paintings.
Verily, let each man perform the fraud he best knows . . .
JD> Certainly came at an opportune time
Doesn't it always?
JD> - the small parish was in a financial crisis. James Randhi
JD> wasn't allowed to examine the painting closely, or check
JD> the back of it (mustn't spoil a good cash cow, must we?).
You got that right.
JD> There ARE those who would cast aspersions on the priest
JD> involved, but who could not trust a man whose previous
JD> employment was in a brothel?
"But, God damn it, I hate a pimp!" -- Mack, Cannery Row
JD> As for the elephant god, he/she/it wasn't _crying_ milk
JD> tears, but rather slurping up bowls of milk offered to it.
Aided and abetted, I bet, by some felines, etc . . .
JD> That miracle seems to have lost popularity quickly,
Big surprize.
JD> but a new one has come to light in a (Hindu?) home, where
JD> a painting is shedding miraculous ashes.
Thereby letting all the faithful make ashes of themselves.
JD> I, too, have a miracle in my home....dust appears
JD> magically from nowhere, and settles on the furniture.
JD> Clean it off, and, next time you look, its back!
Amazing! I, too, have had miracles here. I can be haunted
by one bowl of chili for days afterwards. And no matter
where I go, there I am . . .
... It's a miracle that curiosity survives formal education - Einstein
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Dove flew over....
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:36:22
EID:a4f7 22465c80
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f81bcb
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa0886
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about Dove flew over....:
RV> Seems to me Sue also showed you or someone,that doves are
RV> NOT NICE birds. Or are these Al S. doves from the Al S.
RV> 'sample space' ie: not of this reality ?????????????
RS> Maybe those doves were geese in their former lives . . .
RS>
JD> Whut duz mean, or do I have to be a member?
And you don't have to be a member unless you want to be a
member. Currently, Jimson Staalin is the biggest member
here.
... ARGH! Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:22:24
EID:5a97 2246a2c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa83d0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Jim Staal about Oops, Caught Again:
ky> Oh, I agree completely.. However, at least with Koresh,
ky> he never claimed to be the Messiah.
js> I was under the impression (from reading much about the
js> man and his claims - he attracted my attention by being
js> a musician and songwriter) that he claimed to be God
js> incarnate.
DH> And here you've been telling us you read nothing but the
DH> bible, using that as an excuse to have never seen the
DH> black-and-white part of a dictionary.
Surely this isn't your first experience with Jimson the
Baldface Liar?
... Like limited vocabulary's a reflection upon being an English Major.-JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:36:26
EID:71d5 2246a480
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa871a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Jim Staal about My Summer Weekend:
DH> Do the laws of the bible equal the laws of the land?
js> Obviously not or we wouldn't be murdering helpless
js> infants by the millions annually...
If Jimson is speaking about abortion here, has anyone
pointed out that we don't murder infants?
I supply for his edification (since he's loath to crack a
book on his own) the definitions of LIFE and INFANT from the
American Heritage Dictionary:
life (lIf) --noun: plural lives (lIvz)
1. The quality manifested in functions such as
metabolism, growth, response to stimulation,
and reproduction by which living organisms
are distinguished from dead organisms or
inanimate matter.
2. Living organisms collectively: plant life.
3. A living being.
> 4. The interval between the birth or inception
> of an organism and its death.
5. A biography.
6. Human activities and relationships: everyday
life.
7. A manner of living: country life.
8. Animation; liveliness.
[< OE lIf]
--life'less adjective
--life'lessly adverb
--life'lessness noun
--life'like adjective
infant (in'fuhnt) --noun
> 1. A child in the earliest period of its life;
baby.
2. Law. A minor.
[< Lat. infans]
The proper definition in LIFE would be number four and in
INFANT would be number one. Ergo, it's only an infant AFTER
it's born. Jimson needs new drugs.
DH> Yes, well, hmmm.
DH> Should they?
js> As a Christian, I say definitly. As an American, I have to
js> say no. I would rather have God bring about a moral revival
js> in the hearts of the people than have Congress legislate
js> our personal lives.
DH> It looks like you're saying that your sense of American
DH> community is more important to your behaviour than your
DH> sense of Christian morality. That you will abide by the
DH> law of the land if you have to choose. Is that right?
DH> Do you have the balls to state your position?
js> Obviously.
DH> Yes, thanks.
Ever wonder when exactly that will be?
... (The Jews in the camps) got what they deserved. -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:53:28
EID:1fcd 2246a6a0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 b3baa365
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa8b18
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Jan Deboer about Educational Experience:
js> And you, sir, are an ignorant liar! You know nothing of
js> me, and certainly from your post, you know nothing of
js> the inspiration of Jesus.
Gee, what'd you do to get Jimson's panties in a twist?
JD> Neither do you. You never met Jesus, (unless you
JD> hallucinate), and all the 'accounts' of him are
JD> third-hand (or worse) gossip. THere isn't a shred
JD> of evidence such a person ever existed, but plenty
JD> of evidence for the plagiarization of the 'legend'.
js> Ahh...spoken as one who has not felt/experienced the
js> touch of God. I _have_ met Jesus in a spiritual sense
js> and He lives within me via His Holy Spirit.
See how androitly he sidesteps the issue? I bet you
were only suspecting that Jimson was possessed . . . now you
know . . .
... My ignorance is *just* *as* *good* as your education. - Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:2ff1 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3d7ed553
JB> On 01 Feb 97, Katherine Wintersnight wrote:
JB> KW> *John Brawley ??? Amateur Creationism Same
old
JB> KW> Scientist and Quantum stuff
JB> KW> Bait Shoppe operator
JB> Eureka, MO. Amateur ANTI-
JB> creationism
JB> scientist,
JB>(fall for whatever bullshit
JB>taglines you care to,
JB>Katherine....)
JB> Quantum
JB> panentheism
Shame you want to give up your one claim to recognition, but the above
is duly cut and pasted in. How long have you been hanging around
in here, anyway?
You may view the revised entry at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BANISH THE DEMON JEHOVAH!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: RE: THE ALIGNMENT LIST
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:1562 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e67592bb
DW>IF Katherine = Wintersnight THEN Damien Wellman ELSE RE: THE ALIGNMENT
LIST
DW> DW> Good thing we have this hidden cache of chocolate right over HERE!
DW> DW>
DW> KW> Oh, Lynda?!! Damien has chocolate!!!!!!
DW> And you can't have it! It's MINE, ALL MINE! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DW> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BECAUSE!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: the Alignment List. part
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:2dbd 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f3763c52
RV> BBS: The Devil's Advocate
RV>Date: 02-01-97 (10:38)
RV>From: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
RV> To: ALL
RV>Subj: the Alignment List. part
RV>KW>This list will be posted monthly, until enough people tell me to stop.
RV>KW>If you aren't listed, and want to be, just give me the information,
RV>KW>and I will add you to the list.
RV>KW>This list may also be found on my web page--
RV>KW>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html
RV>KW>Please address additions to the list to me, under the subject
RV>KW>"alignment list". I've started adding the people who
RV>KW>haven't given me their own entry this month--so unless you
RV>KW>want to risk my best guess of what you are, best let me know.
RV>Three part post can through to Brantford. Ont. If it was 3 parts,
RV>then all made it this far.
It was five parts.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Being born again increases the chances of birth defects.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:a4a1 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e3c1b5a3
RS> RS> You know, I don't remember . . . so there's obviously TWO
RS> RS> chocolate rituals now? Gads, the stuff must be popular!
RS> RS> I'll really have to look for it now . . . it's the one where
RS> RS> one of the ritual officers is referred to as the Swiss Miss.
RS> KW> There wasn't a 'Swiss Miss' in either of mine.
RS> KW> Omigoddess--false chocolate scum rituals are running around
RS> KW> loose!
RS> Worse, I've heard rumors of a Carob Ritual . . .
Arrrrghhhh!
RS> KW> And then there is the VanderMint heresy. ;)
RS> VanderMint? Sure I vandermint! Gimme!
VanderMint is alright in it's place, but it's place isn't in the Circle
.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Beware of magicians, they manifest anger in strange ways.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Fat People
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:965a 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c815710c
RS>KW> A "Steingrobe'", also known as a "Steiny", is a hapless, bumbling,
but
RS>KW> explosive xtain type fundy. He's known best for taking sudden right
RS>KW> turns in religious hysteria, and getting himself backed into impossibly
RS>KW> prickly corners. At the moment he can't quite make up his mind wither
RS>KW> he wants to play footsies with Rod Swift, or beg Lynda to tie him
up and
RS>KW> paddle his naughty little rump until it's pink and glowing.
RS>Oh, I think it is both, Katherine :) :) I've had run-ins with
RS>him on Usenet Newsfroups. He's so fun! Especially when he turns
RS>into 100% crackpot mode :)
He's been doing that a lot lately . Then when the resulting heat
starts getting to him, he makes a silly and obvious attempt to change
the topic--and he still can't answer a question to save his life.
RS>KW> DC>My guess is that he's a ping-pong ball attempting to play on
RS>KW> DC>a tennis court.
RS>KW> Well, for some reason he finds my web page 'frightening'. Yes,
he's
RS>KW> a lightweight.
RS>Oh, I think he makes people think that. Then he plays heavy
RS>until he realises he's made himself look like a fool. Then he
RS>takes a powder.
Last night he was getting horridly offended at a link on my page, one to
a site that lists christian atrocities. he thought it was terribly
unfair that such lists exist--after all, all those xtians weren't real
true xtians.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Body born of earth and water, spirit of fire and wind.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Profanity
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:54:06
EID:74f5 22473ec0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 07dcaf8a
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32fa4698
On (06 Feb 97) Sue Alexander babbled to Marilyn Burge...
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Marilyn Burge <=-
SA> I wonder if he would recognize a clue if it was handed to him on
SA> a silver platter.
You apparently read his little lecture. I have to admit that
I puked all over my keyboard about a third of the way through
it, and didn't continue reading after I cleaned up.
The amazing thing is that he thinks he can speak for all men.
First he has to offer evidence that he IS a man. So far, I've
seen no evidence of that. All I've seen is evidence that he is
an anal retentive little prude with a Bible.
... Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Feb 97 10:58:07
EID:a8aa 22475740
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 3f8cc939
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f43552
On (02 Feb 97) Ken Young babbled to Katherine Wintersnight...
KY> Yep.. They THOUGHT they were Christians, however they did not have
KY> the basic Christian beliefs..
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can you think of
KY> lately, that occurred in the name of Christianity?
Have you ever heard of Bosnia? Do you read the papers?
... Kill: It's not just a good idea, it's God's law!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: exponential problem
|Date: 07 Feb 97 11:01:26
EID:d737 22475820
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 52a9df0d
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f4c54c
On (02 Feb 97) Ken Young babbled to Robert Curry...
KY> I say it is not up to us to reduce the population. If it is
KY> meant to be, it will happen through the course of nature..
You are absolutely right! Do you have any inkling of what's
involved in nature taking its course in the regard? Any idea at
all? Hint: it ain't pretty. It involves people starving to death
on a global scale (not just in somebody else's country); people
killing each other for a crust of bread that we would deem unfit
for human consumption; dead bodies lying in the street because
there is nobody with the physical strength, the will, or the
fossil fuel necessary to cart them off; a complete breakdown of
ALL the common niceties we now so take for granted that we are not
even aware of their existence; and the constant putrid smell of
wholesale death.
A fine christian like you wants us to return to the laws of the
jungle. Why not just move to Rwanda now, and save all the interim
steps.
... I think he's a few channels short of Basic Cable
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:37:38
EID:f5d4 22477ca0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f264ff6c
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32fa03d3
On (05 Feb 97) John Musselwhite babbled to Marilyn Burge...
JM> Hi Marilyn...
JM> On 02 Feb 97 10:32:48, Marilyn Burge penned the following to Al
JM> Schroeder re: Bacteria and Evolution.
MB> So, go to it. Set up the test and see whether prayers are truly
MB> answered or not. Don't just sit there, bickering over whether I
MB> came up with an algorithm or not, hop to it!
JM> In the M*A*S*H episode, "Quo Vadis Captain Chandler", the title
JM> character (who thought he was Jesus Christ) put it quite
JM> succinctly, Marilyn...
JM> "God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is "no"."
That's not what the Bible sez, John. I've always taken you as a
bit of an expert on the content of that holy book. You disappoint
me, John. It sez, and I quote, "ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE." That
seems plain enough to me.
... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:50:58
EID:5dc6 22477e40
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 2820ead1
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f1f8c4
On (31 Jan 97) Jim Goodman babbled to David Worrell...
JG> Hmmm...You both make good points here. Does the student
JG> ever master the basics? (especially the fundy).
JG> If I were taking a somewhat opposing position I'd say
JG> the first point above about the other gods being pissed
JG> only holds if they actually exist.
Zeus and Apollo (among scores of others) exist to every bit
the same extent that Jehovah exists.
JG> The second point about Jehovah being pissed because He
JG> knows you are only worshipping Him to win a wager holds,
JG> though. I can't think of a good critique of that one.
That's because there isn't any, unless you define "god" in some
way other than the Judeo-Christian way (i.e., a god who knows
all and sees all). I'd say, as a matter of fact, that there
would be an especially warm place in purgatory for those who
are hypocritical enough to merely go through the motions in
order to cover their asses. Jesus spoke incredibly harsh
words regarding hypocracy.
... Stupidity got us into this mess; why can't it get us out?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:53:43
EID:d1c0 22477ea0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c5cc6dbb
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f2afd4
JG> PD> Your logic is that there is no first cause right? Before
JG> PD> the universe a out of nothing there was nothing ie. no
JG> PD> first cause?
JG> PD> What happened to causality?
JG> Very good question. I'm new here too. I'll keep looking to
JG> see if there are any plausible discussions along these lines
JG> in this Conference. From a purely philosophical viewpoint it
JG> would seem the question deserves serious thought and
JG> consideration.
The problem with the First Cause argument is that you end up with
turtles all the way down. What caused the First Cause? What caused
THAT? etc. So, at some point, you have to go with Occam's Razor
and just do away with god(s) and say that the First Cause was a
material event. Why? Because we have ample evidence of a material
world, and zero evidence of anything immaterial.
... I thought about being born again, but Mum said "no."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:59:59
EID:c6cc 22477f60
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 dc357015
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1c24fb6b
On (02 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Fredric Rice...
EM> 28 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Fredric Rice to Ed
EM> Mills: There's a huge gray area there that people seem
EM> completely unwilling to address, as well. At what point does
EM> a significant age difference become pedophilia? Although I
EM> find it incomprehensible that anyone would want to have sex
EM> with a child, I also find it incomprehensible that a
EM> nineteen-year-old can go to prison for schtupping a sixteen-
EM> year-old.
I seem to recall that in most states, there has to be at least
3 (or is it 5) year's difference between the two parties before
it can be called child rape. Otherwise, it's just statutory
rape, which is only rape in a technical sense (both parties
agreed, but at least one party was not old enough under the
law to be capable of informed consent).
EM> I don't know about same-sex consent, but I can tell you that,
EM> as a child, I'd have gotten naked for Barbara Feldon any way,
EM> any where. :)
Diry old man.
... Do it tomorrow. You've made enough mistakes for one day
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:10:02
EID:f414 22478140
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 b79079c6
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f17550
On (30 Jan 97) Richard Smith babbled to David W. Worrell...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96 David W. Worrell said to
RS> Marilyn Burge about For your rude behavior?:
RS> DWW> 30 Jan 97 17:56, Marilyn Burge wrote to Fredric Rice:
MB> I would never have posted them in a million years, were it
MB> not for the fact that he was using my silence as a
MB> opportunity to slander my good name and lie about me.
RS> DWW> Which of the things I said were lies, Marilyn? Bear in
RS> DWW> mind that everyone has now seen the entire exchange.
RS> DWW> You are the one with only a passing acquantiance with
RS> DWW> the truth here.
RS> Actually, I have't seen the whole exchange. Care to repeat
RS> it?
It isn't worth repeating. David likes to bait people, just to
watch them squirm. He admitted as much in his e-mail to me, and I
posted the entire exchange. I was tired of him posting excerpts
from the exchange as a sig.line, so I posted it all, and let
people judge for themselves which of us has integrity and which of
us doesn't. I'd say, he lost that battle by admitting he liked to
bait people just to watch them squirm. He tried to bait me in the
e-mail exchange, and I refused to fall for it. So, he instead
tried to bait me in here. I simply no longer read his posts,
whether they are to me or to somebody else. He has nothing
productive to say, anyway, so why waste my time on him? There are
too many well-read people for me to waste my time on the likes of
him.
... Life is a sexually transmitted disease.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:18:22
EID:f414 22478240
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7e5164c5
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f55bde
On (02 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Robert Curry...
FR> this seems kind of rude.
RS> RC> LOL!
RC> I found it rather amusing myself.
RS> I'm sorry I missed it.
Just for you, I'll post it again. Please stand by....
... "Windows Is Not A Virus, A Virus Does Something!"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:19:45
EID:205a 22478260
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 99704d4d
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 24 Dec 96 13:28:15 Private
From: David Worrell (123/67)
To: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
... = Al Schroeder condescending to a penis.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:20:18
EID:205a 22478280
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f082bff9
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 25 Dec 96 08:53:45 Private
From: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
To: David Worrell (123/67)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On (24 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DW> On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
DW> My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
No apologies necessary. I thought I was pointing out to you
that a pagan's child's weight has nothing whatsoever to do
with the religious beliefs of the pagan. Have you no specific
objections to the pagan point of view on which to focus, or
are you merely left with baiting the pagan for something that
has nothing to do with religion? It seems to me that it would
be a bit more on-topic if you focused on the individual's
religion, and left personal matters alone -- especially when
those personal matters are something about which the pagan can
do nothing.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:21:00
EID:205a 224782a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7ba3c0e4
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 30 Dec 96 06:21:29 Private
From: David Worrell (123/67)
To: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
Thursday December 26 1996 20:31, Marilyn Burge wrote to David Worrell:
MB> I just hate to see people suffer for something they are born with.
MB> I see little difference in what you're doing and taunting somebody
MB> for being born with one leg.
Is the person in question here, Marilyn? No, but her parents are.
MB> How sporting of you.
We all take our sport where we can find it. I notice that you said nothing
when
several of us were ragging Brawley about his alcoholismm or several other
similar situations. It seems that you only switch into Crusader mode when
someone says something that strikes a chord in yourself.
As I have said before, I cannot insult anyone who refuses to let me insult
them.
MB> I have every right to express my opinion.
Indeed you do. Just as I have every right to express mine. I also have the
right to express opinions I do not hold.
MB> Like it or lump it.
MB> If I were trying to play Styx, I'd be threatening to cut off your
MB> feed. Am I doing that?
No, but that would be even more laughable.
MB> Then I'm not playing moderator; I'm merely expressing an opinion.
And trying to tell me what is appropriate and what is not. That qualifies
as
trying to play moderator in my book.
-+- QuantumEdit 6.66
... ... How do you get a lawyer out of a tree? Cut the rope.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:21:45
EID:f414 224782a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a68deb4d
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f55bde
On (02 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Robert Curry...
RS> I would agree.
FR> this seems kind of rude.
RS> RC> LOL!
RC> I found it rather amusing myself.
RS> I'm sorry I missed it.
I would have worded things slightly differently, perhaps, had
I given the posts more thought than I did. But, considering
the fact that I had found found out that my sister had brain
cancer and was dying, I feel even now that I gave the matter
about as much attention as it actually deserved, given its
relative importance to me.
... "Jesus was a nice guy...it's the fuckup followers I have a problem with."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: [1/2] Fundies
|Date: 02 Feb 97 13:55:19
EID:fd48 22426ee0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f4e4d5
REPLY: 1:3800/49 0011670c
>>> Part 1 of 2...
David Ragland said "Fundies" to Don Martin, adding:
DR> DM Around here, fundy simply means religious
DR> DM asshole.
DR> And this definition is unerring and trustworthy simply because you
DR> and your king say it is, right?
And just who, in the name of Farouk's Ferocious Flatulence, is
my "king"? Pray identify him, and should he turn out to be some sort
of supernatural being, provide some evidence of his existence apart
from human imagination.
DR> I mean... this _is_ your position as well, right? And why?
DR> Could it be that you are afraid to believe anything that the
DR> Christians have to say simply because you would be branded a
DR> heretic by your peers?
Apart from being religious assholes, fundies typically attempt
to psychoanalyze their opponents rather than attempting to deal with
the issues. Never mind what I _could_ be afraid of; pony up osome
evidence that your deity is something other than a figment of human
imagination, for _that_ is what is at issue here.
DR> Because you would be accused of
DR> turning your back on the religion of atheism.
Pray define this "religion of atheism".
DR> Before you scream back,
DR> "Atheism is no more a religion than baldness is a hair color!"
You find that statement untrue? Why?
DR> If you are so set against the idea that any God exist, why are
DR> you in this echo?
Because this echo was founded and continued by people like me
for the free and open discussion of ideas, particularly religious
ones. I am not "set against the idea that any God exist[s]",
incidentally; I have frequently stated right here (and elsewhere)
that if any genuine evidence for such a thing were presented, I
would sign up instanter.
DR> If you are so totally certain that the Christians
DR> are full of beans, why do you bother bandying words with us?
Because you assholes want to control the way I live and the way
society operates, including banning the free flow of information,
imposing theologically based laws, bombing people and organizations
with which you disagree, and generally behaving like a cancer on
society. "Bandying words" is a nonviolent way of exposing your
paucity of ideas in public and rendering them less effective in the
matter of leading the credulous by the nose. As someone here once
said to a fundy who asked whether we atheists won if he went away,
"No, we win when you learn to think."
DR> What a waste of time it is for you to fight against something
DR> that you do not believe exists.
I do not fight against any god or other Imaginary Superfriends;
I fight against deluded loons who believe that such things exist and
want me to share their delusions. Such _people_ most assuredly _do_
exist, and I happen to feel that opposing them is a socially
beneficial thing to do.
>>> Continued to next message...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: [2/2] Fundies
|Date: 02 Feb 97 12:59:51
EID:f94c 22426760
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f4e4d6
REPLY: 1:3800/49 0011670c
>>> Part 2 of 2...
DR> If there were a million people in here talking about their
DR> belief in the Easter Bunny, I would not waste my time talking
DR> to them about that belief
And if the Bunnyites made a practice of stealing copies of the
Bible out of public libraries to prevent such a heresy falling into
the hands of children, you _still_ would not "waste your time" on
them?
DR> because, I am totally assured of the
DR> Easter Bunny's mythological status.
That is probably owing to the fact that no Bunnyite has so far
managed to present you with any credible evidence that his Super
Rabbit was anything other than a product of human imagination. I am
quite familiar with this problem.
DR> If I had doubts, however... I would
DR> challenge them to prove their belief to me.
Ah, fundies--forever asking for proof, when all a reasonable
person needs is some evidence.
DR> I would be genuinely
DR> interested in what they had to say.
You mean _before_ any one of them had presented you with any
credible evidence that his Super Rabbit was anything other than a
product of human imagination? You would be interested in their
babble for babble's sake?
DR> Atheism is a religion that purports faith in the _absence_ of
DR> God.
Bullshit. Atheism is the condition of never having seen any
credible evidence that supernatural beings and events are anything
other than a product of human imagination.
DR> It's followers _hope_ they are not wrong,
More psychoanalysis. On what evidence do you base this
assertion? Speaking only for myself, I have pretty much given up all
hopes, having been disappointed so many times by believers failing
to come up with any credible evidence that the supernatural was
anything other than a product of human imagination.
DR> but their doubt is patently conspicuous. It is even evident in
DR> the definition that you gave me, you just can't or won't see
DR> it.
Please be so good as to detail how my doubt is "patently
conspicuous" (once you have consulted a dictionary on the meaning of
"redundancy"), with particular attention to those items in my
definition that demonstrate that I am incapable of seeing something
that is "patently conspicuous" or avoiding seeing something that is
"patently conspicuous" by some act of volition. Please note that
this exercise will require you to have some knowledge of me and of
the way my mind works for you to be successful: I am most interested
in how well you do.
DR> Thus, there are no _true_ atheists.
Well, according to you bozos there are not all that many real,
true Christians either, once you are finished kicking out all
the ones with whom you disagree (for most here, about 99.999... of
the entire mass). Of course, lacking any dogma, it is a great deal
more difficult for atheists to become not real, true atheists,
but then WOA always _were_ more clever than fundies.
DR> Only millions of self-deluded pretenders.
Funny, self-deluded applies to all holders of positive belief
until they come up with some evidence that the object of that belief
was anything other than a product of human imagination. This really
does not apply to people who _lack_ such a belief, but if it
comforts you to think so, you are welcome to add it to your pantheon
of imaginings.
DR> God
Got any evidence for this supernatural being as anything other
than a product of human imagination?
DR> gave his only begotten Son
Got any evidence for this event and this second supernatural
being as anything other than a product of human imagination?
DR> that you may be forgiven for what
DR> you have said and done in this life so far, man.
I prefer to be responsible for my own actions and encouraged by
the weight of that responsibility to behave better toward my fellow
man. The opportunity to behave like a little shit and get let off by
some SuperDaddy in the sky has no charms for me.
DR> Why do you
DR> mock this manifestation
Have you any evidence for this "manifestation" being anything other
than a product of human imagination?
DR> by rejecting your own personal salvation?
Have you any evidence for this _need_ of personal salvation as
being anything other than a product of human imagination? And if so,
how do you distinguish the situation from that imposed by more
mundane extortionists (the real-life analogues of the fictional Don
Corleone)?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 02 Feb 97 14:08:01
EID:e957 22427100
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f50798
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f1479a
Dan Ceppa said ""flat earth" town" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> Make me God of your school district, let me administer one of my
DC> OK, you're god!
Shit. Do I have to get fundies now?
DM> no. One merely threatens to publish the paper where the students
DM> and their parents can see it and await the lynch mob. He'll leave
DM> voluntarily.
DC> I like that idea. Now to see if I can get to a school board
DC> meeting. They get together on a night I'm stuck at work.
DC> Looks like I'll have to do some massive message writing and
DC> phone calling to accomplish what you suggest.
Be careful to stipulate up front that this exam is for the
public record and that the results may be published unedited. The
form of the exam is that teachers must produce a certain amount of
writing (the 500-word theme is an old standard) on a topic in their
field within a specific length of time under supervision (usually 1
hour). They may use dictionaries, thesauruses, etc., but not
textbooks.
They do not get the specific topic until time to write; I used
to put up three or four and let them take their pick. If the guy
teaches American history, say, give him things that anyone who
presumes to know American history ought to be able to talk about off
the top of his head in support of an opinion. For example:
The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. In your view, what are the
three greatest effects of immigration upon our society?
Notice, that there is no "right" answer to this. A number of
different effects exist. A good paper finds three that actually do
exist in fact and makes a coherent case for them being considered
the greatest in grammatic, organized English. College freshmen do
this sort of thing all the time. Surely a professional charged with
the education of the young ought to be able to manage it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Feb 97 15:04:12
EID:0f15 22427880
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f50799
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f19ce8
Ken Young said "Oops, Caught Again" to Joseph Keenan, adding:
KY> By the same token, the stereotype that all Christians are dogmatic
KY> morons isn't quite fair or accurate either..
The sample we get in here is pretty consistent in that regard.
Perhaps we all need to get out more.
By way of demonstration of your qualifications, you say to
Marilyn Burge:
MB> I see some very serious pitfalls in the absolutist position that
MB> it is a human being from the moment of conception. I see that as a
MB> VERY extreme viewpoint with nothing but theology to back it up.
MB> Since we do not live in a theocracy, and I have no desire to live
MB> in one, I see the freedom to choose as the right one for society
MB> as a whole.
KY> It is no more an extreme view than it is to believe that we are
KY> human beings. Nothing to back it up? I guess movement,
KY> brainwaves, heartbeats, etc. don't count?
Personhood is a _legal_, not a medical, distinction. If you wish
movement, brainwaves, heartbeats, etc. to count in according
personhood under the law, then you must extend it to all beings
exhibiting these phenomena. You will be giving the vote to a whole
lot of cocker spaniels, horses, and parrots, _all_ of whom routinely
generate movement, brainwaves, heartbeats, etc., and are a good deal
more cuddly, thoughtful, and useful than fetuses. The parrots are
even far better at conversation.
Later still, you say to Jan deBoer:
KY> Why think abnout homosexuality? Maybe because I was replying to
KY> what someone else said..
KY> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was
KY> never meant to be.
Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle, Ken!
Jd> Must be tough going nude this time of year!
KY> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
The very reason that Christianity falls into being a hate group
so easily: the bible _does_ say something rather ignorant about
homosexuality. Mounting evidence suggests that homosexuality has a
strong genetic component: if this is borne out, then these people
are simply made the way they are and their inclinations are not a
matter of their own volition. In theistic terms, homosexuality is
created by "God." To abomninate it is to abominate "God's" creation.
This answers the question you put earlier to Fred (Snap) Rice:
FR> Nearly every race hate organization in the United
FR> States is a Christian organization which meets in
FR> Christanic churches. The KKK, Aryan Nations, Church of
FR> Jesus Christ Christian, all the Identity brand names,
FR> the Sword and the Cross, Mormons, Baptists, Focus on
FR> the Family... they're all hate organizations, Ken, and
FR> every one of them Christian.
KY> All hate organizations? Even Focus On the Family?!?
Pay attention to the behavior exhibited by Focus On the Family
members toward homosexuals, and you will see organized hatred at
work. They are a hate group like the KKK; they have simply made
"faggots" their designated "niggers".
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Liars fer Jesus
|Date: 02 Feb 97 15:25:22
EID:5f29 22427b20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f5079a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f20112
David Worrell said "Liars fer Jesus" to Quentin Fai, adding:
QF> But, he's not dead!
QF> He's hiding in Prewett's crawlspace with JFK, Elvis and Kissinger.
DW> Prewett's gonna need a bigger house.
DW> I wonder if undead Presidents still receive Secret Service protection.
They don't need it. J. Edgar Hoover is down there, too.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Out of Time!
|Date: 07 Feb 97 06:54:19
EID:e53f 224736c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32fb25fb
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f2ced0
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Jan deBoer said this about Out of Time!
G'day Jan,
Jd>> DIMENSIONS of heaven in CUBITS? Explain how something that exists
MO>> Do you know where this is in the bible? I'd like to add it to a
MO>> project I'm working on.
Jd> No, blast it! I _know_ I've seen it more than once, but can't find it
Jd> again. Maybe its another unit of measure? Leagues? Miles?
Oh, fuckit! I did a search for cubits and may have missed it. Searching
a
five meg text file ain't fun. ;-) Any other bits you can think of? The more
contradictions and humourous bits the better.
/\\ark...
... "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief
denied even to prayer."
-Mark Twain (1835-1910)
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: KISS
|Date: 07 Feb 97 06:55:33
EID:be1e 224736e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32fb2645
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f4eba4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, David Worrell said this about KISS
MN>> I don't give a flying fuck which way you take it.
DW> Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
/\\ark...
... Don't worry - Cthulhu LIKES your sense of humor.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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