God Damned Fundies!
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: state theocracy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:04
EID:efe9 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef2
TID: GE/2 1.2
KY>> Exactly, the churches aren't to control the govt.
RC> Tell it to the Christian Coalition.
KY> Just because I am a CHristian does not mean that I will agree
KY> with everything every Christian does.
Nor did I imply such a thing. I'm cognizant of the divisions within
your Christian family of religions, and the differences of opinion
which many individuals who identify themselves as Christians have.
Still, you should tell it to the Christian Coalition. I already know.
KY> I may agree with most of the beliefs
I don't care what you *believe*, Ken. Tell me when you manage to THINK.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: Idiocy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:05
EID:38b1 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef3
TID: GE/2 1.2
DR> It was the profanity that I said could be done without.
Bloated Buddhas! Did you find half a worm after taking a Bite out
of Christ? Has the Holy Spook been scrambling your brains? What god
crawled up your ass to be crucified, anyway?
(It could be done *with*, too.)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: Profanity
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:06
EID:9050 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef4
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Marilyn Burge
DR> The fact remains, however, That just about any man views a
DR> gutter-mouthed female as being less than virtuous.
You must know a lot of easily frightened and dimwitted men, to
make that claim if it's supposed to be based on your experience.
DR> You see, Marilyn ++ the Bible is a good book to follow
DR> the edicts and precepts of even if you don't believe in God.
Then why do you personally ignore most of the edicts and precepts
contained therein?
The bible is just an anthology. A little dusty, maybe, but please.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:07
EID:fdda 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef5
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Karen Davis
KD>> The debunking is not the issue. I firmly believe people can
KD>> believe what they please, but I will debunk religious statements
KD>> when I have the opportunity. That's not antitheist.
RC> It's anti-bullshit.
DH> Precisely.
DH> I maintain that if bullshit were illegal we would need no more
DH> than 10% of the laws we now have.
But we would also have a sudden rise in the crime rate.
Hell, Al Schroeder's bullshit alone would easily quadruple the number
of crimes committed in the state of Tennessee if it were criminalized.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: Smegma Staalin
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:08
EID:e670 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef6
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Will you next be informing me that "mathematics" is plural
RC> because it too ends in an 's'? Or how about the United States
RC> of America?
MB> But, of course! So's "jackass."
A plural twice over, no less.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: GOD: PSYCHOPATHIC LIAR
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:09
EID:14a8 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef7
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Then why does the idea of hell still bother me?
rh> Because you still have a shred of human decency left in you?
rh> Because religion has not -totally- rotted your brain yet?
FR> I would tend to doubt both suggestions. He fears the myth
FR> of "hell" because indoctrination by his cult masters. While
FR> it's true he's managed to tailor pet gods according to his
FR> own pet wishes, he still suffers from a great many abusive
FR> ideologies programmed into him by his masters.
FR> I don't see this one ever overcoming his problems.
No. Not likely at all.
Especially when he blames his disgustingly repulsive behavior
on the "misunderstanding" of his selected victims.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: christian Ignorance
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:10
EID:6d71 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef8
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> Steiny: Do you now, or have you ever, own any dog
DW> collars, chains DW>whips, or spiked heels?
DW> Azir....only the ones I am saving for you
DW> I don't share your disgusting sexual perversion,
DW> steinbot. Thanks for thinking of me, though.
DW> Azir....believe me, it was only an extremely brief
DW> thought...
DW> Who was it that said thinking of sex was just as bad
DW> as having sex?
DW> Azir....I think it was your mother
DW> * Azirafel rofls
DW> Az, Jesus is your MAMA?!
LOL!
See there; you don't miss all the good ones. Now go wash your face.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JAN DEBOER
|Sub: dos internet
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:15:11
EID:43f6 224701e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e110ef9
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> Someone here was recently talking about accessing the
DW> Internet with DOS.
DW> I stumbled upon the following URL that might be of help:
DW> http://www.fdisk.com/doslynx/
RC> Well, they'll first need a TCP/IP program to establish
RC> connectivity to begin with before being able to use that
RC> text-based web browser (except with their own local HTML files).
RC> For accessing the Internet, you could call the TCP/IP program a
RC> requirement, even.
JD> Nope! I can access the internet, using the same Qmodem software
JD> that I also access local BBS's with.
Yes, a freenet or shell account will provide access. I bow to your
greater skill in nitpicking. :-)
Doesn't help a bit for using DosLynx on your own system, though.
JD> All you need is an Internet provider that offers text-only
JD> access. MANY Freenets use this mode ONLY, and are running
JD> LYNX. Check your local Freenet.
Yes, I helped the Suncoast Freenet technical director find a few
security loopholes when Lynx was first set up there.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:00
EID:ce3b 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d9469
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> What is the practical difference between "the smallest
JB> possible NONZERO number," and "a minimum-possible increment
JB> of thingness"--an "individualized entity?"
While you might as well use those phrases interchangeably, John,
neither of them describes an infinitesimal number. Sorry. You are
going to need something else.
JB> You're too much like me;
Except I've never whined about my name in someone's origin line.
JB> sometimes I think you like to argue an opposite position
JB> merely to see if you can find a way around an otherwise
JB> logically sensible argument.
You need to get the terms straight in your head before beginning any
attempt at a logical argument, please.
JB> With you as teacher, I'd learn how best to argue against
JB> _anything_ in math,
With me as a tutor, being paid the appropriate fee (Fidonet's a
hobby, so I'm off the clock here), you could potentially learn how
not only to argue about math, but also how to verify your answers
to see if they are correct, a step that is at least as important as
any argument, though you would apparantly differ.
JB> and I'd probably learn more of the art of the put-down,
No, I'd have to refer you to the Worrell School of Snide Remarks
because he has superior qualifications in that area. Nor does
my tutoring involve indulgence in the type of entertainment that
is so well afforded by the HolySmoke echo; you might consider
that people can distinguish between their different activities. :-)
JB>> there would be a SUBinfinite number
RC> Could 'finite' be the word you're looking for?
JB> I wasn't looking for it. But, sorry. Yes. Habit caused me
JB> to avoid "finite," since I'm used to dealing with a few _just_
JB> 'subinfinite' items. That is, "finite" can be anything
JB> between nothing and just short of infinity, but my "writer's
JB> mind" feels "subinfinite" implies something closer to the
JB> infinite than to nothing. Perhaps not. "Finite" would do for
JB> us, but not for T-verse, in relation to which I find myself
JB> preferring "subinfinite" (most often with the qualifier "_just_."
Where someone with a lower crackpot index would simply say finite,
but large. Or even very large. But your ego is not satisfied with
anything but your own private lingo, now, is it?
JB>> in a math based on infinitesimals,
RC> You don't even know what an infinitesimal is, John, so why do you
JB> I know _several_ infinitesimals.
By name? Susan? George?
JB> A couple are "the smallest possible nonzero number,"
Bzzzzt. Sorry, Mr. Dumpty, but if you do that again, you'd really
better not pirch atop any walls, if you catch my drift.
JB> and "the least-possible increment of thingness, short of
JB> NO-Thing-ness."
That would be your excessively crackpottish manner of restating the
above, yes. All the king's horses won't help you, though, if they
can't understand what you're going on about simply because you insist
on using a nonstandard language. The result, not to be unexpected,
will be their wandering off without any interest in putting you back
together again. Then your pieces can try to communicate nonlocally.
JB> However, if there IS an infinitesimal number--if the number
JB> line is treated as composed of _discrete_ entities,
John, how many times have I already informed you of the qualitative
difference between the independent properties of (on the one hand)
infinitesimals, and (on the other hand) discrete entities?
Five times? Ten? A thousand? How many times before it sinks in?
JB> I'm learning new categories, anyway. I used to have a category
JB> that had "lawyers," "doctors," and "priests" in it. I suspect
JB> it'll end up having "mathematicians" in it as well....
The School of Snide Remarks is the second door on the left. Please
seek remedial education there, as the above is one of the most
pitiful attempts I've ever seen (surpassed in pathos only by the
followup claim of, "But I wasn't even trying!").
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:01
EID:60aa 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> Infinitesimals, as Leibniz applied them intuitively, are quite
RC>> continuous, actually. Now if you had said nonarchimedean.... :-)
JB>> AAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgh!
JB>> Please demonstrate that infinitesimals, "as Leibniz applied them
JB>> intuitively" are "quite continuous?"
RC> Please demonstrate first that you understand the definitions of
RC> both "infinitesimal" and "continuous."
JB> Nah: I asked you first.
But when you ask for a demonstration, John, it will mean nothing to you
unless you understand the basic vocabulary right up front. First, you
learn the vocabulary. Then, when you make progress with that, comes the
work *with* the mastered vocabulary -- you have to walk before you can
run a marathon race.
JB> I'd watch a 'what is math?'-type argument between you and
JB> Peter Diehr with interest, I'm sure....
Perhaps one day when you learn to swim, you'll even be allowed in
the deep end of the pool.
RC> You don't seem to realize that your crackpot notions do not use
RC> novel mathematical ideas -- but that's because you are ignorant
JB> Baloney. A point-without-a-background is apparently not a
JB> 'usual' mathematical idea.
LOL! You seem content with your little dogma on the matter, so don't
let me disturb you with the facts. Just because you didn't learn it
yourself in grammar school doesn't mean it's a novel idea.
JB> Nor is a network without a coordinate system it's embedded in.
ROFLMAO! Does the word "graph" mean anything to you in that context?
Apparantly not. You sure have a major ego packed away in that
tremendously huge area of ignorance, John.
JB> These are not "novel," perhaps, but they aren't easily seen to
JB> be 'standard,' either.
The first is _trivial_. Those things are generally passed over except
by certain people who enjoy knowing them, or who need to take them
into account for various reasons. As for your hilarious belief that
graph theory is not standard, what can I do but laugh?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: source of info
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:02
EID:3196 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946b
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I'm interested in seeing whether the mistake is yours or
RC> Berlinski's (elsewhere you claim that he doesn't know the
RC> correct spelling of Leibniz, odd for someone writing of
RC> the man's historical contributions).
JB> It's worse: new info is that D. Berlinski, while supposedly
JB> an expert in _math_, has written an anti-type book about
JB> evolution, in which he is said to make some pretty gross errors
JB> of understanding.
I've not yet run by the Largo library to check out the citation
you kindly provided.
Anyway, Goedel was an *extremely* paranoid religious nut who believed
in demons, but it didn't hurt his mathematical abilities. I am half
expecting this Berlinski to be anything but a "math expert," though.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: leggo my ego
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:03
EID:6b69 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946c
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> Then, you're not curious about the geotopological object itself,
JB> whether or not it might model something of physics....
Your bag of greasy marbles is not interesting, John, no.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:04
EID:1d63 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946d
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> Cantor could not at last escape the conclusion there had
JB>> to be a sort of top-level infinity.
RC> I've already been over this once with you, John. Cantor's
RC> mystical beliefs in an "Absolute" (his notion of a god)
RC> were not math. He was aware of the fact that it's easy to
RC> prove there's no largest infinity.
JB> It is,
Yes.
For ordinal numbers, Hector's method of adding ones will suffice
to provide new ordinals. That will not produce new cardinals,
however, but as Cantor himself knew, the power set of any set
is necessarily of a greater cardinality than the original set.
Thus, there is no largest cardinal number either.
JB> yet it's easy to grant one must 'exist': simply that infinity
JB> of which all other infinities are subsets.
Then you would also say it's "easy to grant" that a barber must
exist who shaves everyone (and only everyone) who does not shave
himself? Your approach is logically naive, and prone to errors
that you've insufficiently considered.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: set theory
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:05
EID:c1e7 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946e
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> I saw your post to Al.
RC> Did you learn anything from it?
JB> Yeah; you don't treat Al any better'n you treat _me_.
But I don't find you repulsively disgusting. I happen to like
crackpots as a general rule.
JB> (*chuckle*) At least you're consistent....
Hilbert would be so proud.
JB> Most 'fundamental' axioms are simple, so why not just TELL me
JB> what's wrong with what I said?
You've given me no good reason to waste my time thusly.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub: Tetrahedracrock
|Date: 07 Feb 97 09:55:06
EID:8607 22474ee0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 2e3d946f
TID: GE/2 1.2
MOVED FROM PHYSICS:
with: Jeff Sterling
JS> Either way, I don't want to discuss it with you anymore. I am
JS> sick of this foolishness. Please do not send me any more messages
JS> dealing with T-verse. Until someone (anyone) for whom I have a
JS> great deal more respect tells me you have come up with some kind
JS> of evidence, I will ignore any messages from you having to do
JS> with T-verse.
JB> As you wish.
Lynda, can we grant Al B. points to people in other echos who get
the qualifying response from a quantum stand in?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:14
EID:8fa5 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478547
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> It's easier than that. Al's omniscient god (if he had one) simply
HP>> waits until the bomber decides to make his bomb to kill someone.
HP>> It then notes the bomber's decision, delivers a fatal cardial
HP>> infarction, the bomber drops dead (soul whizzing off to hell
HP>> without passing "Go"), and that's that.
SA> Actually, that does not give the bomber time to "repent"...
Al's gods are supposed to be omniscient. They _know_ if the bomber will
repent
or not. If it's necessary to allow the bomber to actually go through with
the
act, it should be a simple matter for omnipotent beings to play the scenario
out
in something like a divine holodeck, where no one gets hurt in the slightest.
___
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--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:18
EID:c4d6 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478549
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RV> No good Hector. Till the bomb is planted and hir walks away from the
RV> action. No crime has been done, no one hurt.
Omniscient beings know what you decide to do, know if you will carry it
through,
and even know if you'll repent (or would, if such critters existed).
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:22
EID:6f65 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854b
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DR> duuuuuuuuuuuhuhhhhhhhhhh
How intelligent of you.
___
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--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:26
EID:4b10 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854d
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DC>>> BTW, were is Prewet? You didn't set him adrift on an ice floe,
HP>> He's been mentally marooned for years. I saw his
HP>> hellfire-and-numerology web page a few nights ago.
DC> Anything different than he used to spout off around here?
No. BTW, he claims he'll be dropping into #holysmoke soon (I invited him).
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:30
EID:57c2 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2247854f
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were a
lot
KY> better.
Yep. It's gotten to where the cops actually try to arrest you if you burn
a
witch nowadays.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies 2/2
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:34
EID:e02d 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478551
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DR> Produce what? Evidence that _you_ would believe, Einstein?
ROFL! You've yet to produce _any_, Davey.
DR> I would have to _be_ God to _prove_ God
Ain't it funny how you don't have to _be_ your next door neighbor in order
to go
look at some evidence that _he_ exists? Why is that, I wonder? Think _you_
can
figure it out, troll?
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:38
EID:c9ee 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478553
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
KY> If God doesn't know the truth, I do not know who would..
Well, can't argue with this one. You do not know who would know the truth.
In
fact, you wouldn't know a truth if it crawled into the empty space between
your
ears and whistled "Dixie."
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: death
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:42:42
EID:523c 22478540
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22478555
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>>> Anyone who claims to be a believer and claims to understand
AS>>>> all the whys and wherefores of the Incarnation, Crucifixion,
AS>>>> and Resurrection has a bigger ego than I.
RC>>> Perhaps I should consult Brawley, then (although you win on sheer
RC>>> volume and condescension, there are some areas in which he gets
RC>>> the prize).
AS>> Uhhh, Robert. What makes you think Brawley has any interest in the
AS>> Crucifixion? As far as I can tell, he has never endorsed any
AS>> particular flavor of theism with his quantum god.
JB> Nor could I.
You and Al -- dumb and dumber. Rather obviously, Bulldog's comparing the
size
of your monstrously and artificially swollen egos here.
Sheesh.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Feb 97 09:02:00
EID:a479 22464840
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81ab4
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9e458
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Exemplifying examples:
MG> Perfect? Why does he starve people to death?
ky> I wasn't aware God did that.. People do that all on
ky> their own.
RS> Which God?
ky> Isn't it obvious?
No, if it was, I wouldn't have asked. There are millions of
Gods according to the world's religions . . . your Bible
even mentions about a dozen or two. What's the matter,
don't know the name of your God?
ky> There is only one god.
Have you any evidence of this? If so, you would have to be
refuting your Bible, which mentions many. And, btw, WHICH
God would that be?
ky> If I meant another, meaning a false god,
Like YHVH?
ky> then I would have mentioned their names..
Whose names?
ky> so they would be contributing to the problem..
RS> But why doesn't your DEITY help? According to your Bible,
RS> It has in the past. Why does It allow people to starve to
RS> death now, when It's helped in the past?
ky> God does help people often..
WHICH GOD? Got any evidence for this claim of it helping?
ky> But without faith in Him, a
Faith in WHO?
ky> society may not be as blessed as it used to be.
So, you only get help if you suck up? Nice Deity you got
there.
ky> If you look at it, it is society that causes starvation,
ky> not God..
RS> Which God? And so your Deity can do nothing about it?
ky> It is a two way street. If people really refuse to do
ky> what is needed, that is their choice.
By this you mean what, people are refusing to eat? LOL! I
thought your Deity (whatever it's name is) was supposed to
be a Deity of unconditional love. Doesn't look like it from
THIS example, does it?
DC> Who controls the weather, Ken? If your god can't
DC> provide suffienct rain for those that need it, he
DC> isn't much of a god.
ky> Not His fault the people turns their backs on Him.
RS> So It only gives food to those who believe in him?
RS> Pretty selfish Deity you got yourself there. So
RS> much for unconditional love, huh?
ky> Love and limitless giving are two different things.
When you stop giving to the person you love, you stop loving
them. Love, in part, is a willingness to give unto others.
Either your Deity loves people, or it doesn't. So far the
evidence seems to indicate that it doesn't.
ky> And is it so much to ask, really? All He asks is that we
ky> believe and accept. Until we start doing that, things will
ky> continue to go down hill.
Who?
ky> Anyway, God lets these happen, He doesn't cause them.
RS> And so, by Its own inaction, It causes people to starve to
RS> death, though supposedly with little or no effort, It could
RS> save them.
RS> Sounds like a personal problem to me. It would appear to me
RS> that I am more loving and friendly than your Deity, for I
RS> have done my part at various times to help feed others. You
RS> should worship me instead.
BTW, I note some editting going on here . . .
ky> Well, what type of eternity insurance plan do you have? :)
Why would anyone need to insure eternity? It isn't as
though eternity is going to have an accident and die,
thereby no longer being eternity. Still looks like I'm more
loving than your Deity, Ken.
ky> And how can God
Which God?
ky> not be loving when He
Who?
ky> came up with a way for us all to have everlasting life
ky> in Heaven?
Where?
... Man came before woman.. -- Ken `Patriot' Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 06 Feb 97 09:28:02
EID:b615 22464b80
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81cee
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9ea72
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Mormonism IS Christianit:
RS> Well, you lead the way . . .
ky> First, militias are not for the Christians, alone. Many
ky> Jews, Pagans, Atheists, etc. are in militias. People from
ky> all walks of life are in them. Are there any militias run
ky> by CHristians, and more for them? SUre.. But there are
ky> those, for all, as well..
RS> Really? Name three. And name your source for this info; is
RS> it Militia Weekly or some other theme magazine? Or just
RS> your imaginatiion?
ky> According to the militias themselves..
Really? As I said, name three.
ky> I have heard of
ky> several Jewish militia members, and I met one Pagan one
One what? Militia? Militia member? As I said, name three.
ky> that used to be in a Florida militia.
Very well, name three.
ky> I also have been corresponding with another
ky> Pagan that is considering starting one.
That doesn't mean that it is a militia yet. Even YOU should
be able to understand that, Ken. Like I said, name THREE.
ky> ANyone that believes the govt. has gone too
ky> far in America, can have a militia.
Sure, they CAN. But a potential militia is not a real
militia. Name three (JUST THREE) non-Xtian militias.
ky> It is for all walks of life..
That may be, but so far you haven't sustained this with
evidence. Name three, Ken.
ky> ANd how anyone can put the word hate and Promise Keepers
ky> in the same sentence, is beyond me..
RS> It's remarkably easy, as it is with other Fundy Xtian
RS> organizations. Consider:
RS> "I want to be invisible. I do guerilla warfare. I
RS> paint my face and travel at night. You don't know
RS> it's over until you're in a body bag. You don't know
RS> until election night." -- Ralph Reed, Xtian Coalition
ky> Hmm.. I do believe we were talking about PK..
Did you not see the words `as with other Fundy Xtian
Organizations.' Ken? Or do you lack basic reading skills?
ky> But you have yet to show how they are violent.
Excuse me, but how do you equate violence and hatred, the
latter of which is what we were talking about? And THEY
who? The Xtian (Hey, Let's Kill Abortion Doctors For
Christ!) Coalition or the Promise (Let's Curb Women's Civil
Liberties) Keepers?
ky> Rather, they are too peaceful and accepting..
LOL . . .
ky> Really, if you knew what they truly believed, I doubt
ky> you would even call them fundies, for the most part.
@@@@@@X @@@@@@X @@@@@@@@X @@@@@@X @@X @@X @@X @@X
@@__@@_ @@__@@_ __@@____ @@_____ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@_
@@@@@@_ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@@@X @@_ @@_ @@_ @@_
@@_@@__ @@_ @@_ @@_ @@___ @@_ __ __ __
@@_ @@_ @@@@@@_ @@_ @@_ @@@@@@X @@X @@X @@X
__ __ ______ __ __ ______ __ __ __
You'd lose that bet, Ken.
... y6@eY{+0+0+0+00000000[(f -- Ken `Patriot' Young
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: .
|Date: 07 Feb 97 10:02:56
EID:82a6 22475040
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f52620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fb4420
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Al Schroeder about .:
as> When it comes to pies, I prefer lemon meringue anyway...
LB> A real Sourpuss, eh? ;)
as> Also, last I heard, there were no lemon-flavored
as> laxatives, which seems to be one of the main
as> ingredients of the chocolate pie proferred by the
as> Triple Goddess of #irc...
ROD> Don't you mean:
ROD> "...last I tasted"?
Aparently, Al hasn't heard that liquid detergent can act as
a super-laxative, as can other (non-chocolate-flavored)
agents. And, of course, syrup of Ipicac is clear and fairly
tasteless, though not a laxative . . .
... THAT'S MOOSE TURD PIE!!! But it's good, though . .
.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:09:06
EID:85a2 22465120
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f412
Hello All!
Well, religious zealotry and bigotry have hit the Pagan
community here locally again. One of the members of our
group was the unhappy recipient of a home search by police,
etc., the other night. They were, obstensibly, looking for
stuff to put her husband (a Mormon, I should point out, that
apparently believes in the old fashioned Xtian ethic: beat
the shit out of your wife every chance you get) away on.
He, apparently, had been telling them that his wife (a
Wiccan) was involved with demonic things (LOL), because when
they came in they looked exclusively at her Craft materials,
more or less. The confiscated some hot sauce in a jar in the
fridge because it might be human blood. The opened her
personal luggage because she might have some human heads in
there. And so on and so on. The confiscated some of her
working tools (athames . . . just two short daggers as it
turns out . . . which are only illegal according to
California Penal Code 12020 if they are concealed on
someone's person) and herbs/incense materials (that
dastardly sage, saltpeter, etc.) without leaving receipts
(which is illegal), and so on, all while she was at work.
They did tell him that she was evil, and that he needed to
stay away from her. They also told him that there were a
lot of Satanic Cults out there, and that Satanism is
epidemic in this country. Apparently, they've never read
the Lanning Report.
So, he calls her, she calls me, I call a Pagan-friendly
attorney. She calls the officers back with the Penal Code
citation, etc. Much hemming and hawwing. The athames are
still illegal, no matter what the Penal Code says. Then
they want names and addresses of people she worships with.
She, being a good wiccan priestess, refuses to tell them.
Then they just want MY name and number. Buffoons. Again,
she refuses. And again, she mentions that the athames
(which had been packed away when they came in) was not
illegal. Since her husband is on probation (don't ask, just
let me state here: sex crimes and child abuse), they have
the right to search HIS stuff and confiscate HIS weapons.
That much is true. But they are not allowed to go into her
things. Still, the athames, etc., cannot be on the premises
. . . to this she agrees. She then says that if they'll
return them to her, or to me, that we will keep them at my
house so that he cannot be tempted to run amok with two itty
bitty daggers in Sacramento.
Then, according to them, if I come down and pick them up
from the officers, they'll arrest me as soon as I leave the
building.
Let me just say that my curiousity, and badger, is piqued,
so to speak. If you folks don't hear from me for a bit, it
may be because I'm cooling my heels downtown.
Granted, it was a BIG mistake for our friend to marry this
jerk. She herself is slowly realizing this. But she had
problems before she even met him. As a matter of fact, she
met him in a mental institution where she'd checked herself
into for a couple of weeks to try to come to terms with some
things. It was a sudden thing, as when we first met her,
she was self-assured and confidant and showed no signs of
mental instability. During their brief marriage (less than
two years at this point) he's refused to let her worship as
she wishes, has single-handedly put her in debt to the tune
of $50,000 (she had to declare bankrupcy just a short while
ago), has stolen from her on a regular basis, including
stealing and selling her things, as well as leave her
beaten, bloody, and cowwed much of the time. Her weight has
increased 50%, and she never seems to look anywhere but the
floor. It was the Mormon in him that made him do this,
according to him. She recently decided that she needed to
divorce him, and we were helping her facilitate that to the
best of our ability. He, of course, is less than pleased.
So, just another day in the land dominated by the followers
of a savage God. Stay tuned for updates. And send me a
file in a cake if I go to the Big House, okay? Or a
chocolate pie to share with the guards.
... Deuteronomy 13:1-5: Kill those who speak of other religions.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:22:08
EID:c6bd 224652c0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81e3a
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f720
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about ...:
LB> since he only put up with death for three days.
ky> The main difference is that they were criminals..
ky> Christ wasn't guilty of anything..
RS> Then why was he tried and sentenced?
ky> Let me ask you..
You mean you don't know? LOL . . .
ky> Why do you think he was tried and sentenced?
I don't think he was tried and sentenced. I don't think he
existed at all.
BTW, answering a question with a question in order to not
answer the original question is step four in the Fundy
Shuffle. Did you realize that you were dancing?
ky> There weren't any real crimes that he committed..
Got any evidence of this? Doesn't your Babble, er, Bible
list crimes that he was charged with? If not, then it may
not have happened, and your whole religion may be make
believe. Should we call Trolley and ride it to the Land of
Make Believe?
RS> And, btw, if he HADN'T
RS> been crucified, Xtianity wouldn't exist today would it? In
RS> essence, you and every Xtian are dependent on the torture
RS> and death of (by your own words) a blameless individual.
RS> Real, true, Xtian love there . . .
I note that you ignore this completely. What are you afraid
of, the truth?
ky> You really missed the point, didn't you?
No, I saw the top of your head. I'm just too well-mannered
to comment on the misfortunes of others.
ky> Jesus came
It's about time. How long have you been in him? And he
only now just came? You're a prettty pathetic lover, Ken.
ky> to give us everlasting life,
You mean no one ever dies? You're full of shit. Name ONE
person who has never died, who WILL never die. Just one.
Technically, this should be easier than you having to supply
the names of three non-Xtian militias, don't you think?
Ooops, sorry, of course you don't. My mistake.
ky> so yes, his death was a large part of the plan.
Then why are all the Xtians bitching and moaning about him
having died (if he ever existed, that is) if that was part
of the plan? Kind of sanctimonious, if you ask me.
ky> As well as his return was..
His return? What return?
ky> Not just death, but resurrection..
The ALLEDGED ressurection. Got any non-Biblical evidence
for it, Ken?
... Famous Gods of the Bible #03! (ACT 19:35) Diana of the Ephesians.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:27:10
EID:8bce 22465360
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81f02
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f84e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Naked Pagan Rituals:
ky> Nowhere does it say babies will go to Hell.. Rather it is
ky> reemphasizing that we are born with a wicked nature.. But,
ky> babies do not go to Hell, simply because they are not at
ky> the age of accountability yet.
RS> Great! Then abortion is a good idea for those babies! They
RS> never sin, and they go to Heaven. What could be better for
RS> them? Thanx for admitting this to us.
KY> Just because one goes to Heaven, that means we have the right
ky> to kill them?
Who said anything about secular law, Ken?
KY> Then we might as well kill all Christians, as they will go
KY> to Heaven anyway..
Sounds like a good idea, Ken. I'm glad you suggested it.
It would have looked bad for a non-Xtian like myself to
suggest it, but since it was you, I have to agree with you
that within the tenets of your faith, it would probably be a
good idea.
Now don't get cocky just because I agreed with you once.
How do you want to kill all the Xtians?
ky> But then, you probably would like open season on
ky> Christians..
No, I personally wouldn't. And it was your idea. I'm fine
with leaving them alone as long as they leave me and mine
alone. You're the one with the problem with them, Ken.
Nice insinuation, btw. Too bad it was formulated by a
moron.
KY> No, we all need to be given a chance at life..
Why? Based on what?
... Ken Young believes that all Xtians should die and go to Heaven.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:32:12
EID:ab4f 22465400
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f7e47b
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9f97c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about ...:
dr> women (and children for that matter) with an air
dr> of innocence about them.
dr> Something for you and Marilyn and all women to think
dr> about...
RS> What, that if they behave as though they are `fwagile
RS> fwowers' rather than real people, if they allow men to put
DC> Just sit back, Richard. And, do stay away from the water.
Glad to, but how can I get a snack that way?
DC> I see a feeding frenzy about to happen.
Another of the amazing prophecies of God Dan!
DC> Ragland doesn't quite understand that he's not just the
DC> bait, he's the mid-night snack.
Ragland doesn't quite understand underwear.
DC> And, as Al once said: "It will be SOOOO bloody!"
LOL . . . yep, looking forward to it . . .
... As it turns out, I am actually "that" stupid. -- David Ragland
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa
|Date: 06 Feb 97 10:35:14
EID:5a53 22465460
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f9174d
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f9fa32
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa:
RS> GDI?
DC> Gamma Delta Iota, one of the fastest growing
DC> fraternities on
DC> Oh yeah, AKA God Damned Indepenent!
RS> Goat Divinities International?
DC> I like the new, upgraded version!
Sounded good to me too . . .
RS> a member of any club that would have someone like me for
RS> a member . . .
DC> That's exactly why we all "joined" it and made it such a
DC> success!
LOL . . .
DC> ... "With a lot of hard work, he'll be ready in 10 more years" Chuin
Don't let the Master of the House of Sinanju catch you
misspelling his name . . .
He'll REMO you . . .
... A club is just an excuse to drink beer. - my wife Your point? -
me
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apocalypse Now
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:23:16
EID:918e 22465ae0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f9191f
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa0574
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Apocalypse Now:
DC> Nice to see you back!
RS> Thanx, nice to be back, albeit sporadically. I see that
DC> Problems with your feed, or just too much else to do?
The former, in a way. It took a month longer than I had
counted on to get the second line hooked up (I installed the
wiring the first day we were here, but PacBell had to take
care of victims of the flooding first). And now that it's
all hooked up again, it's not acting right. It gags, pukes,
and freezes up on large message packets now, and there's a
lot of problems along with that. I may need to find more
memory for the computer. And, as far as I can tell, I'm the
only BBS in Sacramento picking up HolySmoke, so it's not as
though I can go elsewhere . . .
RS> apparently we lost the Superior Intellect from England,
DC> You forgot to put quotes around that!
I was hoping the Superior Intellect from England would
correct me himself. Did he just disappear, or did he have a
nice parting shot?
RS> (And, btw, do you at last have a working EMail address?)
DC> No, not yet. Shelby's working on getting the local E-mail
DC> setup to accept my posts as a point. So far, no luck.
Well, considering that my EMail/NetMail capabilities are
non-existent at the moment until I get the machine
functioning better, it's probably just as well.
... Hell: Mail packet of 1500 messages by Schroender, Appletoon, & Wiens.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: weird sexual aftermaths
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:26:18
EID:532a 22465b40
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f8abcc
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa062a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about weird sexual aftermaths:
DW> I still don't know what the hell a nit comb is, though.
EM> A little plastic comb with very fine teeth, usually
EM> included in the box with your bottle of antiparasitic
EM> shampoo.
EM> Used to remove unwanted arachnids from the pubic fuzz.
EM> I finally gave up on the shampoo, however. My horticulturally
EM> obsessed roommate's bottle of Ortho Aphid Death did the trick,
EM> but it burned like hell.
RS> I guess that's easier than training a bird to sit on your
RS> head and keep the nits down . . .
RS>... Jesus to crowd: "No! I said picnic not pick nits! Damn apes."
RS> -gr/DC
JD> Definitely a sign of old age or terminal boredom when they
JD> reminisce about the crab nebula.....
Now you're just being shellfish . . .
... Man cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Confirmed miracles
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:34:20
EID:61e1 22465c40
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f81bb9
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa080c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about Confirmed miracles:
DM> And just what "scientists" might these be? Names, please, and
DM> the peer-reviewed journal in which they published their data*.
jf> There have been reports in the news of paintings of Mary crying.
DM> And the Hindus have several statues of an Elephant God of theirs
DM> that does the same thing, only with tears of milk. There is a
DM> lot of that going around this season.
RS> The Deity in question, Ganesa or Ganesh, really shouldn't be
RS> weeping tears of MILK. Considering the tales of his drunken
RS> driving (he rides a rat) through the streets of various
RS> cities, milk should be the LAST thing flowing from him.
JD> The crying Mary painting:.....the Priest of the Greek
JD> church (in Toronto) seems to be followed by these paintings.
Verily, let each man perform the fraud he best knows . . .
JD> Certainly came at an opportune time
Doesn't it always?
JD> - the small parish was in a financial crisis. James Randhi
JD> wasn't allowed to examine the painting closely, or check
JD> the back of it (mustn't spoil a good cash cow, must we?).
You got that right.
JD> There ARE those who would cast aspersions on the priest
JD> involved, but who could not trust a man whose previous
JD> employment was in a brothel?
"But, God damn it, I hate a pimp!" -- Mack, Cannery Row
JD> As for the elephant god, he/she/it wasn't _crying_ milk
JD> tears, but rather slurping up bowls of milk offered to it.
Aided and abetted, I bet, by some felines, etc . . .
JD> That miracle seems to have lost popularity quickly,
Big surprize.
JD> but a new one has come to light in a (Hindu?) home, where
JD> a painting is shedding miraculous ashes.
Thereby letting all the faithful make ashes of themselves.
JD> I, too, have a miracle in my home....dust appears
JD> magically from nowhere, and settles on the furniture.
JD> Clean it off, and, next time you look, its back!
Amazing! I, too, have had miracles here. I can be haunted
by one bowl of chili for days afterwards. And no matter
where I go, there I am . . .
... It's a miracle that curiosity survives formal education - Einstein
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Dove flew over....
|Date: 06 Feb 97 11:36:22
EID:a4f7 22465c80
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f81bcb
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa0886
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about Dove flew over....:
RV> Seems to me Sue also showed you or someone,that doves are
RV> NOT NICE birds. Or are these Al S. doves from the Al S.
RV> 'sample space' ie: not of this reality ?????????????
RS> Maybe those doves were geese in their former lives . . .
RS>
JD> Whut duz mean, or do I have to be a member?
And you don't have to be a member unless you want to be a
member. Currently, Jimson Staalin is the biggest member
here.
... ARGH! Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:22:24
EID:5a97 2246a2c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa83d0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Jim Staal about Oops, Caught Again:
ky> Oh, I agree completely.. However, at least with Koresh,
ky> he never claimed to be the Messiah.
js> I was under the impression (from reading much about the
js> man and his claims - he attracted my attention by being
js> a musician and songwriter) that he claimed to be God
js> incarnate.
DH> And here you've been telling us you read nothing but the
DH> bible, using that as an excuse to have never seen the
DH> black-and-white part of a dictionary.
Surely this isn't your first experience with Jimson the
Baldface Liar?
... Like limited vocabulary's a reflection upon being an English Major.-JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:36:26
EID:71d5 2246a480
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa871a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Jim Staal about My Summer Weekend:
DH> Do the laws of the bible equal the laws of the land?
js> Obviously not or we wouldn't be murdering helpless
js> infants by the millions annually...
If Jimson is speaking about abortion here, has anyone
pointed out that we don't murder infants?
I supply for his edification (since he's loath to crack a
book on his own) the definitions of LIFE and INFANT from the
American Heritage Dictionary:
life (lIf) --noun: plural lives (lIvz)
1. The quality manifested in functions such as
metabolism, growth, response to stimulation,
and reproduction by which living organisms
are distinguished from dead organisms or
inanimate matter.
2. Living organisms collectively: plant life.
3. A living being.
> 4. The interval between the birth or inception
> of an organism and its death.
5. A biography.
6. Human activities and relationships: everyday
life.
7. A manner of living: country life.
8. Animation; liveliness.
[< OE lIf]
--life'less adjective
--life'lessly adverb
--life'lessness noun
--life'like adjective
infant (in'fuhnt) --noun
> 1. A child in the earliest period of its life;
baby.
2. Law. A minor.
[< Lat. infans]
The proper definition in LIFE would be number four and in
INFANT would be number one. Ergo, it's only an infant AFTER
it's born. Jimson needs new drugs.
DH> Yes, well, hmmm.
DH> Should they?
js> As a Christian, I say definitly. As an American, I have to
js> say no. I would rather have God bring about a moral revival
js> in the hearts of the people than have Congress legislate
js> our personal lives.
DH> It looks like you're saying that your sense of American
DH> community is more important to your behaviour than your
DH> sense of Christian morality. That you will abide by the
DH> law of the land if you have to choose. Is that right?
DH> Do you have the balls to state your position?
js> Obviously.
DH> Yes, thanks.
Ever wonder when exactly that will be?
... (The Jews in the camps) got what they deserved. -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:53:28
EID:1fcd 2246a6a0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 b3baa365
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32fa8b18
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Jan Deboer about Educational Experience:
js> And you, sir, are an ignorant liar! You know nothing of
js> me, and certainly from your post, you know nothing of
js> the inspiration of Jesus.
Gee, what'd you do to get Jimson's panties in a twist?
JD> Neither do you. You never met Jesus, (unless you
JD> hallucinate), and all the 'accounts' of him are
JD> third-hand (or worse) gossip. THere isn't a shred
JD> of evidence such a person ever existed, but plenty
JD> of evidence for the plagiarization of the 'legend'.
js> Ahh...spoken as one who has not felt/experienced the
js> touch of God. I _have_ met Jesus in a spiritual sense
js> and He lives within me via His Holy Spirit.
See how androitly he sidesteps the issue? I bet you
were only suspecting that Jimson was possessed . . . now you
know . . .
... My ignorance is *just* *as* *good* as your education. - Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:2ff1 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3d7ed553
JB> On 01 Feb 97, Katherine Wintersnight wrote:
JB> KW> *John Brawley ??? Amateur Creationism Same
old
JB> KW> Scientist and Quantum stuff
JB> KW> Bait Shoppe operator
JB> Eureka, MO. Amateur ANTI-
JB> creationism
JB> scientist,
JB>(fall for whatever bullshit
JB>taglines you care to,
JB>Katherine....)
JB> Quantum
JB> panentheism
Shame you want to give up your one claim to recognition, but the above
is duly cut and pasted in. How long have you been hanging around
in here, anyway?
You may view the revised entry at
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BANISH THE DEMON JEHOVAH!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: RE: THE ALIGNMENT LIST
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:1562 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e67592bb
DW>IF Katherine = Wintersnight THEN Damien Wellman ELSE RE: THE ALIGNMENT
LIST
DW> DW> Good thing we have this hidden cache of chocolate right over HERE!
DW> DW>
DW> KW> Oh, Lynda?!! Damien has chocolate!!!!!!
DW> And you can't have it! It's MINE, ALL MINE! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DW> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BECAUSE!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: the Alignment List. part
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:2dbd 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f3763c52
RV> BBS: The Devil's Advocate
RV>Date: 02-01-97 (10:38)
RV>From: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
RV> To: ALL
RV>Subj: the Alignment List. part
RV>KW>This list will be posted monthly, until enough people tell me to stop.
RV>KW>If you aren't listed, and want to be, just give me the information,
RV>KW>and I will add you to the list.
RV>KW>This list may also be found on my web page--
RV>KW>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html
RV>KW>Please address additions to the list to me, under the subject
RV>KW>"alignment list". I've started adding the people who
RV>KW>haven't given me their own entry this month--so unless you
RV>KW>want to risk my best guess of what you are, best let me know.
RV>Three part post can through to Brantford. Ont. If it was 3 parts,
RV>then all made it this far.
It was five parts.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Being born again increases the chances of birth defects.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:a4a1 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e3c1b5a3
RS> RS> You know, I don't remember . . . so there's obviously TWO
RS> RS> chocolate rituals now? Gads, the stuff must be popular!
RS> RS> I'll really have to look for it now . . . it's the one where
RS> RS> one of the ritual officers is referred to as the Swiss Miss.
RS> KW> There wasn't a 'Swiss Miss' in either of mine.
RS> KW> Omigoddess--false chocolate scum rituals are running around
RS> KW> loose!
RS> Worse, I've heard rumors of a Carob Ritual . . .
Arrrrghhhh!
RS> KW> And then there is the VanderMint heresy. ;)
RS> VanderMint? Sure I vandermint! Gimme!
VanderMint is alright in it's place, but it's place isn't in the Circle
.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Beware of magicians, they manifest anger in strange ways.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Fat People
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:32:00
EID:965a 22477400
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c815710c
RS>KW> A "Steingrobe'", also known as a "Steiny", is a hapless, bumbling,
but
RS>KW> explosive xtain type fundy. He's known best for taking sudden right
RS>KW> turns in religious hysteria, and getting himself backed into impossibly
RS>KW> prickly corners. At the moment he can't quite make up his mind wither
RS>KW> he wants to play footsies with Rod Swift, or beg Lynda to tie him
up and
RS>KW> paddle his naughty little rump until it's pink and glowing.
RS>Oh, I think it is both, Katherine :) :) I've had run-ins with
RS>him on Usenet Newsfroups. He's so fun! Especially when he turns
RS>into 100% crackpot mode :)
He's been doing that a lot lately . Then when the resulting heat
starts getting to him, he makes a silly and obvious attempt to change
the topic--and he still can't answer a question to save his life.
RS>KW> DC>My guess is that he's a ping-pong ball attempting to play on
RS>KW> DC>a tennis court.
RS>KW> Well, for some reason he finds my web page 'frightening'. Yes,
he's
RS>KW> a lightweight.
RS>Oh, I think he makes people think that. Then he plays heavy
RS>until he realises he's made himself look like a fool. Then he
RS>takes a powder.
Last night he was getting horridly offended at a link on my page, one to
a site that lists christian atrocities. he thought it was terribly
unfair that such lists exist--after all, all those xtians weren't real
true xtians.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Body born of earth and water, spirit of fire and wind.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Profanity
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:54:06
EID:74f5 22473ec0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 07dcaf8a
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32fa4698
On (06 Feb 97) Sue Alexander babbled to Marilyn Burge...
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Marilyn Burge <=-
SA> I wonder if he would recognize a clue if it was handed to him on
SA> a silver platter.
You apparently read his little lecture. I have to admit that
I puked all over my keyboard about a third of the way through
it, and didn't continue reading after I cleaned up.
The amazing thing is that he thinks he can speak for all men.
First he has to offer evidence that he IS a man. So far, I've
seen no evidence of that. All I've seen is evidence that he is
an anal retentive little prude with a Bible.
... Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Feb 97 10:58:07
EID:a8aa 22475740
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 3f8cc939
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f43552
On (02 Feb 97) Ken Young babbled to Katherine Wintersnight...
KY> Yep.. They THOUGHT they were Christians, however they did not have
KY> the basic Christian beliefs..
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can you think of
KY> lately, that occurred in the name of Christianity?
Have you ever heard of Bosnia? Do you read the papers?
... Kill: It's not just a good idea, it's God's law!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: exponential problem
|Date: 07 Feb 97 11:01:26
EID:d737 22475820
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 52a9df0d
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f4c54c
On (02 Feb 97) Ken Young babbled to Robert Curry...
KY> I say it is not up to us to reduce the population. If it is
KY> meant to be, it will happen through the course of nature..
You are absolutely right! Do you have any inkling of what's
involved in nature taking its course in the regard? Any idea at
all? Hint: it ain't pretty. It involves people starving to death
on a global scale (not just in somebody else's country); people
killing each other for a crust of bread that we would deem unfit
for human consumption; dead bodies lying in the street because
there is nobody with the physical strength, the will, or the
fossil fuel necessary to cart them off; a complete breakdown of
ALL the common niceties we now so take for granted that we are not
even aware of their existence; and the constant putrid smell of
wholesale death.
A fine christian like you wants us to return to the laws of the
jungle. Why not just move to Rwanda now, and save all the interim
steps.
... I think he's a few channels short of Basic Cable
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:37:38
EID:f5d4 22477ca0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f264ff6c
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32fa03d3
On (05 Feb 97) John Musselwhite babbled to Marilyn Burge...
JM> Hi Marilyn...
JM> On 02 Feb 97 10:32:48, Marilyn Burge penned the following to Al
JM> Schroeder re: Bacteria and Evolution.
MB> So, go to it. Set up the test and see whether prayers are truly
MB> answered or not. Don't just sit there, bickering over whether I
MB> came up with an algorithm or not, hop to it!
JM> In the M*A*S*H episode, "Quo Vadis Captain Chandler", the title
JM> character (who thought he was Jesus Christ) put it quite
JM> succinctly, Marilyn...
JM> "God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is "no"."
That's not what the Bible sez, John. I've always taken you as a
bit of an expert on the content of that holy book. You disappoint
me, John. It sez, and I quote, "ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE." That
seems plain enough to me.
... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:50:58
EID:5dc6 22477e40
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 2820ead1
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f1f8c4
On (31 Jan 97) Jim Goodman babbled to David Worrell...
JG> Hmmm...You both make good points here. Does the student
JG> ever master the basics? (especially the fundy).
JG> If I were taking a somewhat opposing position I'd say
JG> the first point above about the other gods being pissed
JG> only holds if they actually exist.
Zeus and Apollo (among scores of others) exist to every bit
the same extent that Jehovah exists.
JG> The second point about Jehovah being pissed because He
JG> knows you are only worshipping Him to win a wager holds,
JG> though. I can't think of a good critique of that one.
That's because there isn't any, unless you define "god" in some
way other than the Judeo-Christian way (i.e., a god who knows
all and sees all). I'd say, as a matter of fact, that there
would be an especially warm place in purgatory for those who
are hypocritical enough to merely go through the motions in
order to cover their asses. Jesus spoke incredibly harsh
words regarding hypocracy.
... Stupidity got us into this mess; why can't it get us out?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:53:43
EID:d1c0 22477ea0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c5cc6dbb
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f2afd4
JG> PD> Your logic is that there is no first cause right? Before
JG> PD> the universe a out of nothing there was nothing ie. no
JG> PD> first cause?
JG> PD> What happened to causality?
JG> Very good question. I'm new here too. I'll keep looking to
JG> see if there are any plausible discussions along these lines
JG> in this Conference. From a purely philosophical viewpoint it
JG> would seem the question deserves serious thought and
JG> consideration.
The problem with the First Cause argument is that you end up with
turtles all the way down. What caused the First Cause? What caused
THAT? etc. So, at some point, you have to go with Occam's Razor
and just do away with god(s) and say that the First Cause was a
material event. Why? Because we have ample evidence of a material
world, and zero evidence of anything immaterial.
... I thought about being born again, but Mum said "no."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:59:59
EID:c6cc 22477f60
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 dc357015
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1c24fb6b
On (02 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Fredric Rice...
EM> 28 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Fredric Rice to Ed
EM> Mills: There's a huge gray area there that people seem
EM> completely unwilling to address, as well. At what point does
EM> a significant age difference become pedophilia? Although I
EM> find it incomprehensible that anyone would want to have sex
EM> with a child, I also find it incomprehensible that a
EM> nineteen-year-old can go to prison for schtupping a sixteen-
EM> year-old.
I seem to recall that in most states, there has to be at least
3 (or is it 5) year's difference between the two parties before
it can be called child rape. Otherwise, it's just statutory
rape, which is only rape in a technical sense (both parties
agreed, but at least one party was not old enough under the
law to be capable of informed consent).
EM> I don't know about same-sex consent, but I can tell you that,
EM> as a child, I'd have gotten naked for Barbara Feldon any way,
EM> any where. :)
Diry old man.
... Do it tomorrow. You've made enough mistakes for one day
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:10:02
EID:f414 22478140
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 b79079c6
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f17550
On (30 Jan 97) Richard Smith babbled to David W. Worrell...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96 David W. Worrell said to
RS> Marilyn Burge about For your rude behavior?:
RS> DWW> 30 Jan 97 17:56, Marilyn Burge wrote to Fredric Rice:
MB> I would never have posted them in a million years, were it
MB> not for the fact that he was using my silence as a
MB> opportunity to slander my good name and lie about me.
RS> DWW> Which of the things I said were lies, Marilyn? Bear in
RS> DWW> mind that everyone has now seen the entire exchange.
RS> DWW> You are the one with only a passing acquantiance with
RS> DWW> the truth here.
RS> Actually, I have't seen the whole exchange. Care to repeat
RS> it?
It isn't worth repeating. David likes to bait people, just to
watch them squirm. He admitted as much in his e-mail to me, and I
posted the entire exchange. I was tired of him posting excerpts
from the exchange as a sig.line, so I posted it all, and let
people judge for themselves which of us has integrity and which of
us doesn't. I'd say, he lost that battle by admitting he liked to
bait people just to watch them squirm. He tried to bait me in the
e-mail exchange, and I refused to fall for it. So, he instead
tried to bait me in here. I simply no longer read his posts,
whether they are to me or to somebody else. He has nothing
productive to say, anyway, so why waste my time on him? There are
too many well-read people for me to waste my time on the likes of
him.
... Life is a sexually transmitted disease.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:18:22
EID:f414 22478240
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7e5164c5
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f55bde
On (02 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Robert Curry...
FR> this seems kind of rude.
RS> RC> LOL!
RC> I found it rather amusing myself.
RS> I'm sorry I missed it.
Just for you, I'll post it again. Please stand by....
... "Windows Is Not A Virus, A Virus Does Something!"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:19:45
EID:205a 22478260
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 99704d4d
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 24 Dec 96 13:28:15 Private
From: David Worrell (123/67)
To: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
... = Al Schroeder condescending to a penis.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:20:18
EID:205a 22478280
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f082bff9
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 25 Dec 96 08:53:45 Private
From: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
To: David Worrell (123/67)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On (24 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DW> On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
DW> My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
No apologies necessary. I thought I was pointing out to you
that a pagan's child's weight has nothing whatsoever to do
with the religious beliefs of the pagan. Have you no specific
objections to the pagan point of view on which to focus, or
are you merely left with baiting the pagan for something that
has nothing to do with religion? It seems to me that it would
be a bit more on-topic if you focused on the individual's
religion, and left personal matters alone -- especially when
those personal matters are something about which the pagan can
do nothing.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:21:00
EID:205a 224782a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7ba3c0e4
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 30 Dec 96 06:21:29 Private
From: David Worrell (123/67)
To: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
Thursday December 26 1996 20:31, Marilyn Burge wrote to David Worrell:
MB> I just hate to see people suffer for something they are born with.
MB> I see little difference in what you're doing and taunting somebody
MB> for being born with one leg.
Is the person in question here, Marilyn? No, but her parents are.
MB> How sporting of you.
We all take our sport where we can find it. I notice that you said nothing
when
several of us were ragging Brawley about his alcoholismm or several other
similar situations. It seems that you only switch into Crusader mode when
someone says something that strikes a chord in yourself.
As I have said before, I cannot insult anyone who refuses to let me insult
them.
MB> I have every right to express my opinion.
Indeed you do. Just as I have every right to express mine. I also have the
right to express opinions I do not hold.
MB> Like it or lump it.
MB> If I were trying to play Styx, I'd be threatening to cut off your
MB> feed. Am I doing that?
No, but that would be even more laughable.
MB> Then I'm not playing moderator; I'm merely expressing an opinion.
And trying to tell me what is appropriate and what is not. That qualifies
as
trying to play moderator in my book.
-+- QuantumEdit 6.66
... ... How do you get a lawyer out of a tree? Cut the rope.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 16:21:45
EID:f414 224782a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a68deb4d
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f55bde
On (02 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Robert Curry...
RS> I would agree.
FR> this seems kind of rude.
RS> RC> LOL!
RC> I found it rather amusing myself.
RS> I'm sorry I missed it.
I would have worded things slightly differently, perhaps, had
I given the posts more thought than I did. But, considering
the fact that I had found found out that my sister had brain
cancer and was dying, I feel even now that I gave the matter
about as much attention as it actually deserved, given its
relative importance to me.
... "Jesus was a nice guy...it's the fuckup followers I have a problem with."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: [1/2] Fundies
|Date: 02 Feb 97 13:55:19
EID:fd48 22426ee0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f4e4d5
REPLY: 1:3800/49 0011670c
>>> Part 1 of 2...
David Ragland said "Fundies" to Don Martin, adding:
DR> DM Around here, fundy simply means religious
DR> DM asshole.
DR> And this definition is unerring and trustworthy simply because you
DR> and your king say it is, right?
And just who, in the name of Farouk's Ferocious Flatulence, is
my "king"? Pray identify him, and should he turn out to be some sort
of supernatural being, provide some evidence of his existence apart
from human imagination.
DR> I mean... this _is_ your position as well, right? And why?
DR> Could it be that you are afraid to believe anything that the
DR> Christians have to say simply because you would be branded a
DR> heretic by your peers?
Apart from being religious assholes, fundies typically attempt
to psychoanalyze their opponents rather than attempting to deal with
the issues. Never mind what I _could_ be afraid of; pony up osome
evidence that your deity is something other than a figment of human
imagination, for _that_ is what is at issue here.
DR> Because you would be accused of
DR> turning your back on the religion of atheism.
Pray define this "religion of atheism".
DR> Before you scream back,
DR> "Atheism is no more a religion than baldness is a hair color!"
You find that statement untrue? Why?
DR> If you are so set against the idea that any God exist, why are
DR> you in this echo?
Because this echo was founded and continued by people like me
for the free and open discussion of ideas, particularly religious
ones. I am not "set against the idea that any God exist[s]",
incidentally; I have frequently stated right here (and elsewhere)
that if any genuine evidence for such a thing were presented, I
would sign up instanter.
DR> If you are so totally certain that the Christians
DR> are full of beans, why do you bother bandying words with us?
Because you assholes want to control the way I live and the way
society operates, including banning the free flow of information,
imposing theologically based laws, bombing people and organizations
with which you disagree, and generally behaving like a cancer on
society. "Bandying words" is a nonviolent way of exposing your
paucity of ideas in public and rendering them less effective in the
matter of leading the credulous by the nose. As someone here once
said to a fundy who asked whether we atheists won if he went away,
"No, we win when you learn to think."
DR> What a waste of time it is for you to fight against something
DR> that you do not believe exists.
I do not fight against any god or other Imaginary Superfriends;
I fight against deluded loons who believe that such things exist and
want me to share their delusions. Such _people_ most assuredly _do_
exist, and I happen to feel that opposing them is a socially
beneficial thing to do.
>>> Continued to next message...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: [2/2] Fundies
|Date: 02 Feb 97 12:59:51
EID:f94c 22426760
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f4e4d6
REPLY: 1:3800/49 0011670c
>>> Part 2 of 2...
DR> If there were a million people in here talking about their
DR> belief in the Easter Bunny, I would not waste my time talking
DR> to them about that belief
And if the Bunnyites made a practice of stealing copies of the
Bible out of public libraries to prevent such a heresy falling into
the hands of children, you _still_ would not "waste your time" on
them?
DR> because, I am totally assured of the
DR> Easter Bunny's mythological status.
That is probably owing to the fact that no Bunnyite has so far
managed to present you with any credible evidence that his Super
Rabbit was anything other than a product of human imagination. I am
quite familiar with this problem.
DR> If I had doubts, however... I would
DR> challenge them to prove their belief to me.
Ah, fundies--forever asking for proof, when all a reasonable
person needs is some evidence.
DR> I would be genuinely
DR> interested in what they had to say.
You mean _before_ any one of them had presented you with any
credible evidence that his Super Rabbit was anything other than a
product of human imagination? You would be interested in their
babble for babble's sake?
DR> Atheism is a religion that purports faith in the _absence_ of
DR> God.
Bullshit. Atheism is the condition of never having seen any
credible evidence that supernatural beings and events are anything
other than a product of human imagination.
DR> It's followers _hope_ they are not wrong,
More psychoanalysis. On what evidence do you base this
assertion? Speaking only for myself, I have pretty much given up all
hopes, having been disappointed so many times by believers failing
to come up with any credible evidence that the supernatural was
anything other than a product of human imagination.
DR> but their doubt is patently conspicuous. It is even evident in
DR> the definition that you gave me, you just can't or won't see
DR> it.
Please be so good as to detail how my doubt is "patently
conspicuous" (once you have consulted a dictionary on the meaning of
"redundancy"), with particular attention to those items in my
definition that demonstrate that I am incapable of seeing something
that is "patently conspicuous" or avoiding seeing something that is
"patently conspicuous" by some act of volition. Please note that
this exercise will require you to have some knowledge of me and of
the way my mind works for you to be successful: I am most interested
in how well you do.
DR> Thus, there are no _true_ atheists.
Well, according to you bozos there are not all that many real,
true Christians either, once you are finished kicking out all
the ones with whom you disagree (for most here, about 99.999... of
the entire mass). Of course, lacking any dogma, it is a great deal
more difficult for atheists to become not real, true atheists,
but then WOA always _were_ more clever than fundies.
DR> Only millions of self-deluded pretenders.
Funny, self-deluded applies to all holders of positive belief
until they come up with some evidence that the object of that belief
was anything other than a product of human imagination. This really
does not apply to people who _lack_ such a belief, but if it
comforts you to think so, you are welcome to add it to your pantheon
of imaginings.
DR> God
Got any evidence for this supernatural being as anything other
than a product of human imagination?
DR> gave his only begotten Son
Got any evidence for this event and this second supernatural
being as anything other than a product of human imagination?
DR> that you may be forgiven for what
DR> you have said and done in this life so far, man.
I prefer to be responsible for my own actions and encouraged by
the weight of that responsibility to behave better toward my fellow
man. The opportunity to behave like a little shit and get let off by
some SuperDaddy in the sky has no charms for me.
DR> Why do you
DR> mock this manifestation
Have you any evidence for this "manifestation" being anything other
than a product of human imagination?
DR> by rejecting your own personal salvation?
Have you any evidence for this _need_ of personal salvation as
being anything other than a product of human imagination? And if so,
how do you distinguish the situation from that imposed by more
mundane extortionists (the real-life analogues of the fictional Don
Corleone)?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 02 Feb 97 14:08:01
EID:e957 22427100
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f50798
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f1479a
Dan Ceppa said ""flat earth" town" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> Make me God of your school district, let me administer one of my
DC> OK, you're god!
Shit. Do I have to get fundies now?
DM> no. One merely threatens to publish the paper where the students
DM> and their parents can see it and await the lynch mob. He'll leave
DM> voluntarily.
DC> I like that idea. Now to see if I can get to a school board
DC> meeting. They get together on a night I'm stuck at work.
DC> Looks like I'll have to do some massive message writing and
DC> phone calling to accomplish what you suggest.
Be careful to stipulate up front that this exam is for the
public record and that the results may be published unedited. The
form of the exam is that teachers must produce a certain amount of
writing (the 500-word theme is an old standard) on a topic in their
field within a specific length of time under supervision (usually 1
hour). They may use dictionaries, thesauruses, etc., but not
textbooks.
They do not get the specific topic until time to write; I used
to put up three or four and let them take their pick. If the guy
teaches American history, say, give him things that anyone who
presumes to know American history ought to be able to talk about off
the top of his head in support of an opinion. For example:
The U.S. is a nation of immigrants. In your view, what are the
three greatest effects of immigration upon our society?
Notice, that there is no "right" answer to this. A number of
different effects exist. A good paper finds three that actually do
exist in fact and makes a coherent case for them being considered
the greatest in grammatic, organized English. College freshmen do
this sort of thing all the time. Surely a professional charged with
the education of the young ought to be able to manage it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Feb 97 15:04:12
EID:0f15 22427880
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f50799
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f19ce8
Ken Young said "Oops, Caught Again" to Joseph Keenan, adding:
KY> By the same token, the stereotype that all Christians are dogmatic
KY> morons isn't quite fair or accurate either..
The sample we get in here is pretty consistent in that regard.
Perhaps we all need to get out more.
By way of demonstration of your qualifications, you say to
Marilyn Burge:
MB> I see some very serious pitfalls in the absolutist position that
MB> it is a human being from the moment of conception. I see that as a
MB> VERY extreme viewpoint with nothing but theology to back it up.
MB> Since we do not live in a theocracy, and I have no desire to live
MB> in one, I see the freedom to choose as the right one for society
MB> as a whole.
KY> It is no more an extreme view than it is to believe that we are
KY> human beings. Nothing to back it up? I guess movement,
KY> brainwaves, heartbeats, etc. don't count?
Personhood is a _legal_, not a medical, distinction. If you wish
movement, brainwaves, heartbeats, etc. to count in according
personhood under the law, then you must extend it to all beings
exhibiting these phenomena. You will be giving the vote to a whole
lot of cocker spaniels, horses, and parrots, _all_ of whom routinely
generate movement, brainwaves, heartbeats, etc., and are a good deal
more cuddly, thoughtful, and useful than fetuses. The parrots are
even far better at conversation.
Later still, you say to Jan deBoer:
KY> Why think abnout homosexuality? Maybe because I was replying to
KY> what someone else said..
KY> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was
KY> never meant to be.
Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle, Ken!
Jd> Must be tough going nude this time of year!
KY> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
The very reason that Christianity falls into being a hate group
so easily: the bible _does_ say something rather ignorant about
homosexuality. Mounting evidence suggests that homosexuality has a
strong genetic component: if this is borne out, then these people
are simply made the way they are and their inclinations are not a
matter of their own volition. In theistic terms, homosexuality is
created by "God." To abomninate it is to abominate "God's" creation.
This answers the question you put earlier to Fred (Snap) Rice:
FR> Nearly every race hate organization in the United
FR> States is a Christian organization which meets in
FR> Christanic churches. The KKK, Aryan Nations, Church of
FR> Jesus Christ Christian, all the Identity brand names,
FR> the Sword and the Cross, Mormons, Baptists, Focus on
FR> the Family... they're all hate organizations, Ken, and
FR> every one of them Christian.
KY> All hate organizations? Even Focus On the Family?!?
Pay attention to the behavior exhibited by Focus On the Family
members toward homosexuals, and you will see organized hatred at
work. They are a hate group like the KKK; they have simply made
"faggots" their designated "niggers".
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Liars fer Jesus
|Date: 02 Feb 97 15:25:22
EID:5f29 22427b20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f5079a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f20112
David Worrell said "Liars fer Jesus" to Quentin Fai, adding:
QF> But, he's not dead!
QF> He's hiding in Prewett's crawlspace with JFK, Elvis and Kissinger.
DW> Prewett's gonna need a bigger house.
DW> I wonder if undead Presidents still receive Secret Service protection.
They don't need it. J. Edgar Hoover is down there, too.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Out of Time!
|Date: 07 Feb 97 06:54:19
EID:e53f 224736c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32fb25fb
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f2ced0
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Jan deBoer said this about Out of Time!
G'day Jan,
Jd>> DIMENSIONS of heaven in CUBITS? Explain how something that exists
MO>> Do you know where this is in the bible? I'd like to add it to a
MO>> project I'm working on.
Jd> No, blast it! I _know_ I've seen it more than once, but can't find it
Jd> again. Maybe its another unit of measure? Leagues? Miles?
Oh, fuckit! I did a search for cubits and may have missed it. Searching
a
five meg text file ain't fun. ;-) Any other bits you can think of? The more
contradictions and humourous bits the better.
/\\ark...
... "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief
denied even to prayer."
-Mark Twain (1835-1910)
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: KISS
|Date: 07 Feb 97 06:55:33
EID:be1e 224736e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32fb2645
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f4eba4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, David Worrell said this about KISS
MN>> I don't give a flying fuck which way you take it.
DW> Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
/\\ark...
... Don't worry - Cthulhu LIKES your sense of humor.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 08 Feb 97 02:45:46
EID:a1ff 224815a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32fc3d3a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Hi all. Can anyone tell me who or what Blavatsky is? It's on an album
of mine and I've been curious about it for years.
"One man - one vision,
racial purity,
madman or magician?
A mystery to me,
he who scorn the teachings of
Blavatsky count the cost
there's more than superstition
hides behind the Crooked Cross"
Taken from the Album - History Of A Time To Come/Sabbat. Any info much
appreciated.
/\\ark...
... A miracle is not an explanation of what we cannot comprehend. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 05:29:00
EID:443d 22472ba0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 96feb413
KY> Brine a fundy is about behavior, not religion, correct? Well,
KY> do you believe what is printed in history books, for example?
KY> If you agree with what they say, then you are a fundy, by
KY> sticking to what they say.
SS> It is one thing to think that a history book is probably
SS> accurate when it says that the Revolutionary War began in
SS> 1776, particularly when the book was written by a person who
SS> has spent a good part of his/her life on research into the
SS> matter.
SS> It is quite another to accept as literally true a book,
SS> written by dozens of people over a millennium, that is replete
SS> with provable falsehood and contradiction.
KY> Provable falsehood and contradiction? Care to share an
KY> example?
KY> ANd do you need to research, when God tells you what to write?
KY> If God doesn't know the truth, I do not know who would..
The wrong number for pi is enough. If God can't get an important
thing like that right I don't think he's terribly reliable.
... A man cannot become an atheist merely by wishing.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
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--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:09:00
EID:dbc3 22473920
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ f6420d02
KY> Are you sure it is me that is ignorant? I am a hisotry of
KY> buff of sorts, especially when it comes to the founding of
KY> America.. They came here in part to escape religious tyranny.
KY> Nowhere will you find one of them saying that they were trying
KY> to escape Christian tyranny.
Whose tyranny were the Pilgrims escaping then? You may say that
they wanted religious freedom but the people who weren't letting
them have it were -- ta da -- Christians! The Founders, bless them,
noticed that and decided it would be a good thing to keep
religion out of government. I think they got it right.
... history is what happened, not what we think should have happened.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:13:00
EID:bafa 224739a0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 541b899f
KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things
KY> were a lot better.
When was that, oh great and knowledgeable history buff?
... History repeats itself because nobody listens.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Bacteria and Slime
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:14:00
EID:6624 224739c0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ f6b63dba
Jd> Cancel your health insurance, and see Benny Hinn.
KY> WHy Benny Hinn? He has nothing to do with it.. It is the
KY> power of God, not the power of Hinn..
Jd> God doesn't seem to show up in hospitals.
KY> Yes He does, all the time.. Otherwise, people that shouldn't
KY> have gotten better, wouldn't have, without explanation..
Perhaps it's the dead that prove he was there.
... I'd love to, but I'm converting my calendar from Julian to Gregorian.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:18:00
EID:dbc3 22473a40
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ c6620138
KY> It uplifts them spiritually?
Out of a sincere, almost childish, desire to learn I ask: What on
earth does that mean?
Can you explain that catchy little phrase simply so those of us
unversed in metaphysics can comprehend it?
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 07 Feb 97 07:24:00
EID:a8cb 22473b00
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ f5ca0381
KY> WHat's this? The majority?!? Where do you come up with this
KY> stuff, anyway? I believe the majority of people with Judeo
KY> Christian beliefs consider themselves Protestants.
Except for the Catholics, of course.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: fawaz rust
|Sub: hi there
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:46:49
EID:8221 224765c0
MSGID: 3:711/933 32fb246d
REPLY: 1:259/528 26ec7b37
Dear fawaz rust,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
fr> hey there is anyone know what a zoroastrian is
fr> ?????????????????
fr> important!!!!
A Parsee.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Convention on the Rights of the Child 1/3 (Part 2)
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:51:32
EID:54fc 22476660
MSGID: 3:711/933 32fb2cbf
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f69fa6
Dear Dave Hamilton,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you for your kind words of appreciation. It is encouraging to encounter
someone intelligent and objective as yourself who actually
'reads' mail and verifies the content before unconstructive comment.
Your pal Laurie Appleton possibly missed the first part of the radio broadcast
on this important topic so I am addressing the second part
to you. Thank you again for your well-chosen words of encouragement.
Last week we considered The Convention on the Rights of the Child, and
the religion of Humanism, a deceptive tool whereby carnal men convince
themselves they are but animals.
Once we see that UN activity is directed to serve a religious design, we
must wonder just how that design could have become part of an
organization representing many religions. This leads us to question who,
or what, directs the UN.
If we also see that this philosophy is a manipulated concoction of
artificial values and emotional idealism, then we can be sure that there
is planning behind the scenes.
There is indeed a ghost in the UN machine and one that certainly does
not believe the philosophy it pretends. However, to deal adequately with
who or what has the power to imprint this deformity on UN activities
would tend to direct attention away from our subject, The Convention on
the Rights of the Child.
Today we'll examine the role of the twin movements of children's rights
and children's liberation in furthering the goals of humanism, and
paving the way for the Convention on the Rights of the Child. We're
working from the booklet by Robert Karolis, The Making of a Deception.
The first National Conference on Children's Rights, held in London in
1972, promoted the controversial concept that children should have
rights of their own as opposed to the traditional right to be protected
by parents and adults.
The following bizarre statements are taken from a report of that
conference entitled 'Rights of Children' published by the National
Council for Civil Liberties:
Professor Green advocates that children should be allowed to choose
their own home and school, and when asked by a member of the audience
when children should be allowed to vote with their feet, he said, 'As
soon as they can walk!'
You may say that such a choice is unrealistic, that our social system
would collapse if children were allowed to opt between alternative
households. All I can say is that if the present lunatic system manages
to survive with a monumental toll on human suffering then any system can
be made to work.' ...
Am I, then, advocating that children should be allowed to choose the
adults with whom to spend their domestic lives? Well, I won't pussy-foot
around the issue. Yes, in principle, I AM putting forward precisely that
proposal.
These are sentiments few people would have imagined they'd hear
expressed by a sane human being. Whatever the professor's motives, he
clearly wasn't out to win a popularity contest among parents. The
thought of such a proposal becoming law would strike fear into the
hearts of all responsible people.
Is it mere coincidence then, that this attack on the heart of parental
authority is reflected in Articles 6 and 10 of the draft Convention on
the Rights of the Child, presented by communist Poland to the UN in 1979
- the same draft that provided the basis for today's final product?
Article 6 states: Parents shall have the right to specify the place of
the child's residence unless, guided by his best interests, a competent
state organ is authorized, in accordance with national law, to decide in
this matter.
Article 10: A child of preschool age shall not be separated from his
parents with the exception for cases when such separation is necessary
for the child's benefit.
Here we see, with less deception than in the final draft, the proposal
that children be given the right to live other than at home with their
parents. The basis for this right is nothing more than an arbitrary
decision by a state organ that it's in a child's 'best interests'.
The term 'best interests', along with other motherly terms like 'well-
being' and 'morals' are just three of many terms used deceptively in the
Convention today.
They're used no less than fifteen times in the final draft, but don't
try to find a meaning or definition for any of them within the pages of
the Convention. You'll waste your time. Because the UN is using, to its
advantage, the fact that these terms mean different things to different
people. Most people will tend to relate them to traditional values and
cultural norms but, once we know the humanist traditions of the UN, we
know that's not what they mean.
In humanist terms, 'best interests' has a very different meaning.
authorities won't admit what it is but children's liberationists will.
Richard Farson, children's rights advocate and guru amongst
liberationists, like Professor Green, believes in getting to the point.
In 1974, in his book 'Birthrights' he outlined fundamental rights that
he believes all children should have. But before I list them, they need
to be seen in light of the liberationists' attitude towards the concept
of childhood itself.
Farson writes, 'Children did not always exist; they were invented. The
idea of childhood is a European invention of the sixteenth century.
Before the latter part of the Middle Ages there simply was no concept of
childhood....
Today we look at these little people around us and think we know what
they are. '...
We've named the little people 'children' and come to regard them as
special. But childhood is not a natural state. Its a myth. Children
became important as a result of the profound changes to our civilization
surrounding the Reformation and Renaissance. It is not the new
humanists, but the new moralists, mainly Jesuits, who came to see
children as `fragile children of God who need to be both safeguarded and
reformed'....
Whatever else may be wrong with a child, his fundamental disability is
that he is a child. Compared to the overwhelming problems of being a
child, almost everything else is less important. His behavior, his
relations with others, his chance for happiness, ALL are determined for
the most part by the socially-imposed limits of being a child. So
whether we're interested in curing a child's `pathological' problem of
hyperactivity or delinquency, or in achieving a child's higher potential
for creativity or genius, the major barrier to overcome is the
oppressive condition of childhood itself.
These statements speak for themselves. According to Farson, indeed
according to the whole liberation movement, the best interests of the
little people can only be achieved by removing from them the oppressive
condition of adult-imposed childhood.
That means giving children freedom in the home and in society to do
whatever adults have the right to do. This is the unstated meaning of
the term 'best interests', and the unstated bottom line of the
Convention.
Though Farson's arguments for the abolition of childhood will be seen by
nearly everybody as preposterous, it should be realized that they are in
accord with humanist philosophy and therefore in perfect harmony with
the basic beliefs of all Australians who have fully embraced a humanist
lifestyle.
The tragic irony of this is that most people don't realize it. In the
same way they didn't realize it when manipulative forces were at work
socializing Australia into discarding traditional male and female roles;
into accepting and legitimizing prostitution, homosexuality,
pornography, blasphemy, nudity, abortion, adultery etc. All these
things, though abhorrent and considered evil in the past, are now, a
natural part of the Australian way of life. Once intellectualized as
'liberation', and then legitimized in the name of International Human
Rights, Australians took to these changes long before they ever realized
it, in perfect accord with their indoctrinated humanist beliefs.
So too will they take to the abolition of childhood, complete with all
its consequences. The task of the liberation and rights 'revolution' is,
to entice them gradually, lest they take fright.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: The bad old days
|Date: 06 Feb 97 19:01:29
EID:8d9e 22469820
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f1315d44
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f8abd8
05 Feb 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Ed Mills:
Jd> On 02 Feb 97 21:31:24 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
EM> As the velocipede is my primary means of getting around, I am
EM> familiar with that sort of thing, although geezerhood is a state
EM> yet to be fully realized.
Jd> Geezerhood is the retirement phase of nerdness. Glasses are still
Jd> required, and receding hair an asset.
Got the glasses, mil-issue nylon horn-rims. No hair loss, but impending
salt-and-pepper threatens to become the basis for looking like a certain
man-from-glad-cum-airline-pilot caricature unless I get something (else)
pierced pretty soon.
Jd> I do think some degree of cycle envy prompted the comment - after all,
Jd> how many mountain bikes have you seen with full fenders?
Here in Portland, mountain bikes withOUT fenders are the exception. Even
the hard-core full-suspension mud-cliff-diving spandex-clad hard-bodied
off-roaders use fenders around these parts.
We do have a parallel phenomenon, though: Gore-Tex envy.
edweird
... Sponsored by the Susan Smith Day Care Center & Car Wash.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Christianity and Scie 1/2 [1]
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:53:19
EID:92c1 2246aea0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 114066a0
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000e56a2
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from David Ragland to Al Schroeder:
DR> parameters of our existence. Scientists have identified over two
DR> dozen parameters of the universe that must be carefully fixed in value
DR> for any kind of conceivable life (not just life as we know it) to
^^^^^^^^^^^
DR> exist at any time in the history of the universe.
All forms of life conceivable to Homo Sap must necessarily occupy
an infinitesimally small portion of all possible lifeforms, unless
we consider ourselves to be near-omniscient.
Come to think of it, I guess we do think we're near-omniscient.
It'll be fun to watch our total mastery really kick in after the
rain forests have been completely bulldozed and the oxygen cycle
has thrown in the towel. Build a temple! Praise Allah!
edweird
... Hey! Why's that U-Haul parked so close to the hou@&#$@* NO CARRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: who does god like?
|Date: 02 Feb 97 20:41:07
EID:22f0 2242a520
Whilst masticating on , Dan Ceppa (1:123/67.5)
wrote to Alan Hess:
AH>> I prefer the commercials. However, since the lord personally
DC> They did have a lot of strange ones, that's for sure. What was
DC> the going rate for a minute this year?
$1.2 million for 30 seconds.
--- Msged/2 4.10
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 02 Feb 97 16:45:09
EID:84f8 224285a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f5e7e8
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a12f1e20
Katherine Wintersnight said "One of yours?" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> What I cannot understand is why the Superbowel producers
DM>dropped the bungee-jumping act from the halftime show just
DM>because one of the people in it got killed in rehearsal.
DM>Give 'em a chance, say I: if they could kill off another
DM>during the actual show, the fans would eat it up with a
DM>spoon.
DM> We would see reruns of the event until we teetered into
DM>our graves.
KW> It wouldn't have been flashy enough.
Not even with sequined streamers on the costume? Wow! that's one
tough audience!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 02 Feb 97 17:38:12
EID:81d7 22428cc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f5e7e9
REPLY: 1:3800/49 00033764
David Ragland said "..." to Lynda Bustilloz, adding:
DR> I think nothing of the sort. Please don't jump to such conclusions
as
DR> you don't yet know nearly enough about me. :)
In another post, you asserted all sorts of things about my
mental state, yet I put it to you that you do not know diddly shit
about me. Why must Lynda play by a different set of rules?
Elsewhere, you say to Jan deBoer:
DR> If I am wrong, we will both die and do nothing more than become
DR> the maggot food you spoke of. If I am not, you will spend eternity
DR> knowing it. The choice is yours.
Pascal's Wager yet again! And you clowns wonder why you are so
easily debunked? Try for some originality. A thought would do.
Incidentally, have you come up with any evidence for your
imaginary Superfriend being anything other than a product of human
imagination? _That_ would be original.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 02 Feb 97 18:00:03
EID:075a 22429000
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f5e7ea
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f2ff06
Ken Young said "Exemplifying examples" to Jan deBoer, adding:
Jd> Strange father - he turns his back on his children when he gives them
Jd> leukemia, or they get raped.
KY> People go through hard times, and in some cases, truly terrible times,
KY> but there is a reason for everything to be allowed. One thing is man
KY> has turned against God, and has decided they want to follow Satan
KY> instead, so God will let them have their way for awhile, and we see
KY> with the idseases, rapists, etc., where that has taken us..
So, let me get this straight: you are telling us that your
imaginary superfriend (for whom you have yet to provide any evidence
as being anything more than a product of human imagination) lets
little kids rot with disease or suffer rape because they, the little
kids suffering such stuff, have become followers of Satan (for whom
also you have yet to provide any evidence as being anything more
than a product of human imagination)? Their horrible fate is your
god's punishment for their disloyalty?
Or is it that they are entirely innocent, and your god is just
_using_ them to make a point to somebody else? He is saying, in
effect, "stop this Satanist crap, or I'll let yet another 9-year-old
altarboy get buttfucked by the entire bass section of the Mormon
Tabernackle Choir!"? I do not know which is the more sick: you or
your deistic imaginings.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 03 Feb 97 08:38:37
EID:8748 224344c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f60953
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74959c52
Martin Goldberg said "Personal jabs" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> minutes from my house: lately, I prefer approaching foreign
DM> languages via the palate. A patissier is about to join the
DM> practice--watch this waistline for a growth spurt!
MG> Good. Hopefully they will open one of the Paris style
MG> horse butchers for your introduction to the degustatory
MG> ways of the Franocphile.
Hell, we were having horse at home before I reached
puberty: today the stuff might be called heart-smart it is
so low fat. But good (I harbor no sentimental concerns for
"My Friend Flikka").
I have no trouble eating quadropeds and have even
managed a few gastropods in galic butter. So far, though, no
hex or greater pods have journeyed down my gullet with my
knowledge (though I do not doubt a few have snuck in--just
breathing in Alaska was sometimes enough for your daily
protein intake on mosquitos alone).
Bon appetit!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 03 Feb 97 12:06:10
EID:8b46 224360c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f6299c
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 7cb7969a
Marilyn Burge said "Hypocritical people" to Don Martin,
adding:
MB> Generally speaking, statistics on church membership and the like
MB> are gotten from the churches themselves. That being the case,
MB> some denominations regard you as a member if you were baptized
MB> in that "faith" shortly after birth (Catholics come readily to
MB> mind in this regard). Other churches are much more apt to cull
MB> their membership rolls regularly.
To that end, I think it might be a very instructive
study for WOAs to organize and perform a census in their
various cities on the actual numbers of fannies on the pews
within a designated denomination. My suspicion is that,
exclusive of Chistmas and Easter, most churches average
7-10% of claimed membership in actual attendance. This
figure is probably smaller for Roman catholics, who tend to
regard everyone within the territory of the parish to
_belong_ in the church, and larger for Quakers, who have
that nasty streak of honesty to deal with.
MB> Also, the numbers get inflated in order to give the appearance
MB> of popularity by the denomination that is doing the reporting.
The sleazier the denomination, the greater the inflation
is my guess.
MB> I don't know how much such popularity inflation affects the
MB> real membership in the future, but it makes those who are
MB> members feel better, knowing that a sizable portion of the
MB> population agrees with the convoluted mindset that they
MB> themselves espouse.
Religion is, if nothing else, a "feel-good" business.
MB> For the above reasons (and many others) any numbers dealing
MB> with church attendance and/or membership are to be regarded
MB> with a VERY jaundiced eye.
With my sig line, am _I_ ready for 'em, or what?
Later you say to me:
DM> (I don't believe that thinking can be taught, but it _can_ be
DM> encouraged) in others.
MB>
MB> (I know I'm going to hear from a fundy on this one, but ONWARD!)
MB> I think you can teach somebody HOW to think; the trouble comes
MB> when you try to teach them WHAT to think.
I would generally disagree on the grounds that thinking
is a little like "obscenity": nobody can really define it
very well, but everybody supposes himself capable of
recognizing it when he sees some. I am pretty sure that
thinking requires information as a raw material, and it
involves putting something called "ideas" together in new
combinations, but beyond that vague construct I am unable to
go.
I can define English grammar with a great deal of
precision, and because I can clearly define it, I can teach
it with a pretty good sense of certainty. But people's minds
work in so many different ways, that I cannot feel so
certain about thinking.
Apart, of course, from a certainty that fundies mostly
don't, but I have their example here to draw upon for
confirmation.
And later still, you say:
MB> about. I believe the mean elevation of Minnesota is something like 50
MB> feet;
DM> ML>
ML> 63 feet, according to the USGS.
DM> Really! And when I first saw the Mississippi from its muddy
DM> marge in the State of the same name, I was impressed with the
DM> _speed_ of the thing--it was hauling ass. And it does this wih only
DM> 63 feet of head between its origin and the Gulf? _That_ is something
DM> to wonder at!
MB>
MB> That's the mean; the Mississippi may very well start at a higher
MB> elevation.
Er, Marilyn, why are rivers generally found at the
_bottoms_ of canyons?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 03 Feb 97 12:47:47
EID:b470 224365e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f6299d
REPLY: 1:3800/49 00116705
David Ragland said "Wonder Woman Comics win" to Fredric Rice,
adding:
FR> It's a supreme irony that there are people who still
FR> pretend to believe in the Christanic myths when there
FR> are so many superior ones to choose from.
DR> I believe it is _you_ who pretends with regards to
DR> "atheism." I would not think the average human so
DR> imprudent as to actually not see what is so obvious.
In this country, the "average human" probably has a
reading ability of rather less than sixth grade and
generally believes what it is told by its equally benighted
parents. It does not know very much, but it tends to be
awfully certain about what it _does_ know. That would
explain the easy jump from ignorance to "prudence" and the
conviction that unevidenced beings and events are "obvious."
And ours is a developed country. The average reading
rate in the Third World is a good deal lower. A great many
even more ridiculous things are "obvious" to them.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 03 Feb 97 14:57:33
EID:de22 22437720
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f64486
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22425b88
Mark Kimes said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to David Ragland,
adding:
DR> I am not satisfied with what science alone has taught me or could
DR> ever teach me.
MK> Therefore, you play make-believe. Hardly sounds satisfying to me.
MK> Far from being too easily _un_satisfied, old bean, you are far too
MK> easily _satisfied_.
MK> Snake oil salesmen must camp at your doorstep.
That is a damned lie! They get the run of the house.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: For the lawyers among us...
|Date: 08 Feb 97 15:20:54
EID:df2b 22487a80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32fc99f6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Q: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a lawyer?
A: An offer you can't understand.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Board no more.
|Date: 08 Feb 97 15:21:34
EID:5ec9 22487aa0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32fc9a2c
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A857E99
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Dies solis February 02 1997, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad All:
ML> Well, the board from where I've been giving fundies fits has
ML> gone belly up (Brian Shreve's 'A Little Corner in Time');
ML> with zero, zip, zilch warning.
Sounds like mine, about two weeks ago (Sorry, David!).
ML> nice...)? All the ones previously used (2 Wheeler's,
ML> Track Hound and Debate Gallery) have also gone tits-up,
ML> so I'm forced to harass good, ol' Steve Q.
You're always welcome here. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 08 Feb 97 15:23:10
EID:f36c 22487ae0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32fc9a84
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74e4646e
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Jovis dies February 06 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad David Ragland:
MG> Next time you get ccancer, call on your god. I hope he hears you just
as
MG> well as he does some of the kids in our children's hospital suffering
from
MG> childhood leukemia.
I just saw something while watching "Unsolved Mysteries" about dogs sniffing
out melanoma. You heard about this one yet?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:11:52
EID:a981 22470160
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fab998
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f909f9
KY> favor, I'll pray for you..
DC> I'll burn a puppy for you. Happy now?
You tell me.. Are you saved yet? :)
Burn a puppy? Now, I thought you only burned churches.. :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:13:38
EID:fee1 224701a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32faba02
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f91dbe
-> On 01 Feb 97 20:41:56, Ken Young got back to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> Yes, we create hunger.. Besides the fact that we are not obeying God,
DC> Too bad that your little books says you are wrong. It says
DC> that your god created _everything_.
DC> ... "Do not to others,what you don't want done to you"...Buddhist proverb
Everything natural, and I do not think that hunger was naturally intended.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:14:38
EID:fee1 224701c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32faba3e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f91e40
-> On 02 Feb 97 06:42:58, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Think quick: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
DC>
KY> Easy.. The chicken, as God made the chicken with the capability to
KY> reproduce, so we would have more chickens.
DC> Wrong answer, Ken. You apparently understand nothing about
DC> evolution.
Or is it you, that doesn't understand the swiss cheese theory of the universe?
Everything not of the supernatural has to come from something, so where
did that first something come from?
KY> And God has always been. He has no beginning,
KY> nor end. He just is.
DC> And the evidence is?
That he has always been, specifically, or just that He is?
Well, the proof that He exists, is that we exist.
And as far as Him always being, since in reality there is no time, only
a God given concept of time to make earthly life easier, He obviously has
always been, and always will be.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:19:50
EID:2523 22470260
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabb76
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f8bfd4
DH>> And the reason that children suffer horrible deaths from
DH>> cancer is?
KY> Do I know everything? No, I am not God.. Perhaps you should ask
KY> Him that..
DH> I was expecting you to do it. You're the one with the communication
DH> with a god.
Nope, with the God. And the answer to this question could be as complex
as the meaning of life.. There would be various reasons, depending upon
the situation.
But the simple answer is because the more we turn away from God, the more
God will allow us to go on without Him, thus no God= sickness, hunger, poverty,
etc.
KY> But perhaps, we are to fault.. We have made this world what it
KY> currently is, diseases and all..
DH> You have been lied to, big time. Boy are you gonna be pissed
DH> if you ever grow up.
Well then, you tell me.. WHo made this world what it is today, if not mankind?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:24:20
EID:2523 22470300
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabc84
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f8c0e3
KY>> Besides, with how we have been screwing up with
KY>> the atmosphere, it is
KY>> a wonder the weather isn't more screwed up. Anyway, God lets these
KY>> happen, He doesn't cause them.
DH> Allowing them to happen is as evil as causing them to happen, if
DH> your god has the power to stop them. Or are you saying he can't?
Because we have decided we don't want His help.
DH>> How do YOU know?
KY> Would you buy, "word of knowledge?" :)
DH> No chance. Knowledge is a consensus of observations of facts
DH> and truth. You've presented nothing but bullshit.
Okay, how about, I had a "vision?" :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:26:14
EID:04c4 22470340
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabcf6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74bc78f7
MG>> Why do we need to be saved?
KY> Okay, you want to know why you need to be saved? Really, I think
KY> the answer is simple, but I will go on anyway.. Simply put, you
KY> need to be saved so you will have everlasting life in Heaven. To
KY> be saved is to be saved from your sins, which doom you to
KY> Hell.
MG> Did you forget to:
MG> 1. Offer evidence for heaven?
MG> 2. Offer evidence for hell?
MG> 3. Offer evidence that there is any kind of everlasting life anywhere?
MG> 4. That there is any kind of god around to run these shows?
MG> 5. That there is sin to be saved from?
MG> 6. That there is any kind of salvation?
MG> That will do for now. Anyting not from the bible will
MG> be accepted for consideration.
Okay, let's start with people have come back and told what they saw, some
from either side..
Also, and this is not proof, but rather an interesting possibility, there
have been many to say they heard torturous screams of agony when they dug
too deep in the earth.. Now, if that is so, could it be Hell? If not,
what are those sounds coming from?
Well, do you believe that when we die, that is just it? The universe is
a vast place, and I refuse to accept that this is it.
Sin is what is wrong, thus, is what has helped decay society, and therefore,
is something to be saved from.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Duh
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:33:18
EID:c57b 22470420
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabe9e
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f95926
KY> Rather, He is a God of free will and liberty, and thus, gives us
KY> our choices.
Jd> Free will under an all-knowing creator is a logical absurdity.
That is what some say, but I fail to see it. What does knowing everything,
have to do with not giving people a free will?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:34:38
EID:3f79 22470440
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabeee
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f95928
KY>Nice try, but no, he was an Occultist. Look at his
KY>beliefs, rather than the
KY>propaganda you have been fed.
KW> So? Since when has being an occultist had
KW> anything to do with whether
KW> or not a particular person was xtian? What religion did you think
KW> Thomas Aquinas practised, anyway?
KY> Are you kidding? Occultism and CHristianity are at opposite
KY> sides of the fence..
KY> I believe he was a catholic..
Jd> So Catholics are Occutists?
Nope, not directly anyway.. I was talking about Hitler being an Occultist,
not Aquinas..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:36:24
EID:2335 22470480
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fabf58
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f95934
KY> WHat's so ddifficult? We are all sinners,
Jd> Speak for yuorself, but I'm not. I've lived an exemplary life. Sure,
I
Jd> masturbated when I was a kid, but who doesn't? Hell, I'll bet I've been
Jd> a nicer guy than even Jesus himself. He didn't give my niece a
Jd> typewriter for college.
I do not care how good of a person you are, that does not mean you are sinless.
Yeah, and Jesus gave us the gift of salvation.. You tell me which is better!
:)
KY> , Jesus bought us a chance for eternal freedom.
Jd> I don't want anything eternal - sounds too much like insurance.
It is, in a way.. An eternity insurance we never have to pay for..
KY> And Christians remember this, during communion.
Jd> Must be pretty bad if you have to drink wine to remember it.
Well, I don't. I do not believe alchoholic wine was even used.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:42:50
EID:f287 22470540
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fac0da
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f52a5c
RS> * On 22-01-97 at 17:06, PATRIOT wrote to JAN DEBOER,
RS> on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
PA> I have no problem with MINORITIEs. WHy be against someone
PA> for the color of their skin or anything else visible that
PA> they cannot change?
RS> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the color of their skin,
while gays do choose their sexual orientation.
RS> Meanwhile, people of religion choose their religion. Christians
RS> can choose not to be Christian. Are you saying they deserve no
RS> equality in civil rights protections because religion is a choice?
No, I am not saying that, but first you must show me an example of gays
being discriminated against.
And anyway, the Constitution gives people the right of freedom of religion.
Nowhere does it say anything about the freedom of sexual orientation.
RS> Are you going to amend the constitution to remove the protection
RS> against religious discrimination and freedom of religion?
Certainly not, but it must be remembered that it is freedom OF religion,
not freedom FROM religion..
RS> [This pamphlet is available from APA, 750 First St NE, Washington
RS> DC 20002-4242, phone 202-336-5700]
RS> Q: Is sexual orientation a choice?
RS> A: No. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early
RS> adolescence without any prior sexual experience. And some
RS> people report trying very hard over many years to change
RS> their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual with
RS> no success. For these reasons, psychologists do not consider
RS> sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be
RS> voluntarily changed.
You do not need experience in something to think a certain way..
And if it is not a choice, why have some switched to being heterosexuals,
later on?
It says, psychologists do not CONSIDER. It says nothing about actual proof.
You have yet to provide evidence. WHy is it a choice? What scientific
or medical reason is there?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: HELL-o, a MUST READ post
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:51:24
EID:aa51 22470660
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fac2dc
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f80522
KY> RS> should pick Kingsville TX as our Holysmoke Convention site, and
KY> RS> have tee-shirts saying "HELL-o" for the con! :)
KY> I agree it is ridiculous, but Leonoso Canales, the guy that
KY> came up with the idea doesn't even claim to be a
KY> Christian.. He has said he isn't all that religious, but is
KY> doing it because churches generally make Hell into such a
KY> negative word.
RS> But HELL and HELLO are two different words. They have different
RS> constructions and word origins.
RS> Or are you saying sHELLs are Satanic too?
I'm not, but I bet loonies like that would..
I think some of these people just like to get the attention..
And I guess next is, Devil's Food, the name Hel(en, not to mention the play
Damn Yankees!
KY> RS> state's official greeting.
KY> I had not heard this part.. True, it is only a resolution,
KY> but I don't like the trend it could start.. Fortunately,
KY> it is so ridiculous, it probably couldn't happen state
KY> wide..
RS> Yeah :) That's the funny thing. Though it is Texas :)
But like I said, it is only a resolution, so at least it has no true power
that a real law has.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:55:12
EID:9dc6 224706e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fac3c0
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f885d9
PD>> to be judged.
KY> Nope.. If one asks for forgivenss, no one will be put there..
KY> And of course, God has never put anyone there.. People do it to
KY> themselves..
DW> I refuse to go to the "brimstone pit."
DW> What's going to happen to me?
If you make the choice, not to go to Heaven, then you make the choice to
go to Hell.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:56:28
EID:7f62 22470700
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fac40c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f88784
DW>> I doubt you'll be here any longer than "Patriot" will.
KY> Well then, he will be here a VERY long time..
KY> Someone has to tell you
KY> people how it is! :) And in case anyone didn't notice, I am
KY> Patriot..
DW> Whatever you say, goofy.
DW> Have you any idea how many times we've heard the above before?
Several times, probably, and I see you have several long time Christians
here, too..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:57:30
EID:42e4 22470720
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fac44a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f887b7
KY> I no longer listen to him much. He doesn't go nearly far enough..
DW> Ah.. you're more of a Liddy man, then?
More in my direction, yes, but I go even further.
Try people like Ken Hamblin, Chuck Harder, Greg Meadows, and others..
DW> Or is Brother Stair more your speed?
Actually, the little I heard of him, does sound like he probably isn't too
bad, but I can't say for sure, until I hear more of him.
KY> Besides, I do not believe anything I just hear, I need something to
KY> back it up with, generally..
DW> Great! Give us you evidence for God, then. We've been
DW> waiting for this for years.
While I think I meant it more about physical things, there is proof of God's
existence- us.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Feb 97 02:02:42
EID:fee1 22471040
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fad392
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f537d5
DC> even praying for it but don't get it.
KY> I didn't say which people.. People may refuse to help, so they would
DC> They asked your "god" for help, Kennny. He seems rather
DC> conspicuously absent from doing anything.
If that was completely true, this world would me a lot worse than it even
is now.
KY> be contributing to the problem.. If you look at it, it is society
KY> that causes starvation, not God.. ALthough, I do find it interesting
DC> Yoiur "god" supposedly can do anything, Kenny. Why does the
DC> bastard let little kids starve to death?
Because He has given us free will, and we chose to try to do it our way,
without Him.
DC> Who controls the weather, Ken? If your god can't provide
DC> suffienct rain for those that need it, he isn't much of a god.
KY> Not His fault the people turns their backs on Him.
DC> So the fucker just starves them to death. Nice god you worhip,
DC> "Patriot". Are you sure your sheet is the correct color?
DC> I'm sure that the pointy part fits you quite well.
I would really love to know where one could get the idea that I am racist..
I haven't said one thing against blacks yet.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 20:23:38
EID:de0b 2247a2e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32fbd59a
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f64097
KY> No, actually there was no time when society in general went
KY> according to God's will completely.. Nor will there be, on this
KY> earth, anyway..
Jd> That's obvious, since there is no god.
And the proof of that is where? Christians are often asked for proof that
God exists, without providing anything pointing to how there could be no
god.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: 2 Sundance Waco Film
|Date: 08 Feb 97 11:08:47
EID:db9b 22485900
SPLIT: 8 Feb 97 12:59:48 @382/804 11 02/02 +++++++++++
CHRS: IBMPC 2
not, we become accessories to these crimes.
"Waco" has not yet been accepted for commercial release, although
negotiations are underway. If you want to see this film, if you feel
others should see this film, then you will have to act. Write to
Sundance and thank them for making this film available. (When you
consider who holds the power at Sundance, it IS rather remarkable that
"Waco" was shown.) Encourage them to support its general release. If
you have contacts with any film distribution companies, ask them to
distribute this film. Write letters to the editors of newspapers and
magazines. Tell everyone you know. If there is a demand, if it appears
profitable to distribute this documentary, Hollywood will most likely
cooperate.=20
Remember that this is NOT about partisan politics, Right vs. Left, gun
rights, or other divisive issues. It is about our unalienable
Constitutional rights to religious freedom, freedom from unreasonable
search and seizure, and above all the freedom not to be murdered by
our own government.
As the Talmud commands:=20
"Thou shalt not stand idly by the blood of thy brother."
---
--- timEd 1.10+
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:06:28
EID:94d3 2246a8c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb2df9
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81ab4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Exemplifying examples" to Richard Smith,
adding:
MG> Perfect? Why does he starve people to death?
ky> I wasn't aware God did that.. People do that all on
ky> their own.
RS> Which God?
KY> Isn't it obvious? There is only one god. If I meant
KY> another, meaning a false god, then I would have
KY> mentioned their names.. so they would be contributing
KY> to the problem..
Inasmuch as you have so far provided no evidence
whatsoever for that god of yours being anything other than a
figment of human imagination, you are in no position to say
that other figments of human imagination do not equally
exist.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
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SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Square circles
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:10:37
EID:4e07 2246a940
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb2dfa
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81fe8
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Square circles" to Jan deBoer,
adding:
KY> Oh, sure.. Everyone has their troubles, but with God, anything
KY> can be done..
Jd> Can he make a square circle?
KY> Yes. If He wanted to, He would find a way.
The nice thing about gods is that they can be every bit
as silly as their believers.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:13:33
EID:e62f 2246a9a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb2dfb
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f91166
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Cracker Barrel boycott" to Dave Hamilton,
adding:
DH> So I have some questions for you:
DH> 1) Are pastors that bugger the little boys true Christians? Or
DH> do you have some way to throw them out and get their frequent
KY> There may be a few, but I have no way to know for sure.
KY> But most, I tend to think, are not..
DH> 2) If they repent do they become true Christians again?
KY> Yes. Of course, just ebcause one sins, does not
KY> necessarily mean they stop being a Christian. But yes,
KY> if one repents, God forgives completely..
And that makes the buggared little boys all better, does
it? You really _are_ a slimy little ignoramus, aren't you?
DH> 3) If they are forgiven, then weren't they Christian
DH> while they were human beings slipping down the little
DH> underpants?
KY> They were Christians, not living for Christ at that
KY> particular time..
Ah, Christians in neutral, as it were. From my
experience, this happens quite a lot in many areas of
activity. This is why I do not trust those who loudly
announce their Christianity.
DH> 4) Who, if anyone, takes responsibility for the trauma
DH> suffered by victims at the hands (and other body parts)
DH> of these priviledged individuals? The individuals
DH> themselves? The Church? Nobody?
KY> The minister should take responsibility, but if he
KY> doesn't, anyone that finds out about it, which would
KY> incluide the victim and his family, should do what
KY> needs to be done to see that justice is served.
KY> Spiritually they are forgiven, but one still has to
KY> face the consequences of one's actions, in some
KY> instances..
Spiritually they are forgiven, are they? That would
explain the facilities some churches set up for the
"guidance" od such of their clergy that have so "slipped".
The Catholic Church is particularly notorious for
transferring paedophiliac Fathers to a parish at some
distance from the scene of discovered buggaries: I have
heard of one such Father having been transferred three times
before the shit hit the fan. He was, to be sure, "spiritually
forgiven."
Ein Arschloch sprach fuer der ander.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 01 Feb 97 15:07:28
EID:be15 224178e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb5095
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A80F223
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Judith were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
AS> I see. Then if a eccentric billionaire deposits a million dollars in
AS> your bank account, and you really need the money, he is instead not
AS> doing you a favor, but a disservice?
JB>
JB> Yep. Because I don't know where the money came from or why. I don't
JB> know who's going to be asking for it back or when or what is going to
JB> be expected for it. I'm also going to be liable for taxes on it. And,
JB> under those conditions, I'd be too damn afraid to spend a penny of it
JB> and wondering what shit I'd be finding myself in next. How do I know
JB> that I'm not being set up for a money laundering charge?
:) You just reminded me of something that happened years ago, back when
George
and I were dating. He was at that time a 20 year old two-striper, and had
run
out of money before he ran out of month, when his car croaked. He needed
about $250.00 to pay for it, otherwise he was going to be walking to work
and
back for the next few days in very cold weather - and he didn't live in
barracks, but in a german town about 6 miles from base.
I tried to give him money, his friend Danny tried to give him money, as
did
Danny's girlfriend Jackie. But, being a 20 year old two-striper, George
was
also very proud and not going to take it from us.
Then we got the 'bright' idea of getting the money and leaving it in his
mailbox on base (he'd given me the combination for it), anonymously. WHAT
A
MISTAKE! Because his reaction was just as you describe above, he thought
someone was playing a trick on him, that the other shoe would drop....he
asked
me if I'd put it there, I played dumb (ok, I lied), and so he was going
to
turn it over to the base security police.....at that point we had to tell
him
and he was TWICE as angry.
Never again would I try something like that. I plead the stupidity that
goes
with being 17, but giving money without permission to someone honorable
just
doesn't work.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: [2/2] Fundy evasions
|Date: 03 Feb 97 22:00:42
EID:9112 2243b000
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb5096
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32f35cc4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jonathan and Don were killing time yakking about [2/2] Fundy evasions:
JF> But I HAVE learned what its foundation is. Mohammed claimed to
JF> have one long "vision," which supposedly told him that the
JF> Bible (both Jewish and Christian) is wrong. There aren't very
JF> many visions in the Bible, now are there?
DM> And the Revelation of St. John the Divine is just _what_,
DM> precisely?
The entire peg of Christianity depends on Jesus supposedly fulfilling the
visionary prophecies of Isaiah.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "You are trapped in that bright moment where you learned your doom."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Taking liberties
|Date: 06 Feb 97 15:10:28
EID:7455 22467940
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb5097
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David and Don were killing time yakking about Taking liberties:
DM> [This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
DM> my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
DM> If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
DM>
DM> David Ragland said "..." to Lynda Bustilloz, adding:
DR> I think nothing of the sort. Please don't jump to such conclusions
as
DR> you don't yet know nearly enough about me. :)
DM>
DM> In another post, you asserted all sorts of things about my
DM> mental state, yet I put it to you that you do not know diddly shit
DM> about me. Why must Lynda play by a different set of rules?
Because, silly, I'm a GURRRRL...
BTW, none of my posts..NONE..have made it off of Above Board in well over
a
month. Those that have made it out to the FIDO world at large are those
that
I've been shooting through a telnet bbs.
So, as long as I have you to myself, did you get my email the other day?
(Now, watch - THIS one will get out, just to be perverse.)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž A day in the life of a message traffic cop...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 06 Feb 97 15:22:29
EID:4ff9 22467ac0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb5098
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f79c0c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Andrew and Richard were killing time yakking about "Flat Earth" Town:
RS> Wonder where Christ got it from, since it predates his
RS> supposed existence?
am> Thats very true. All the great moral teachers preached
am> the same lesson in various ways.
RS>
RS> Well, I'm not absolutely convinced of this, but I'll give it
RS> to you for the sake of argument.
I'm not sure what you two are referencing, but if its the "golden rule"
Andrew is ALMOST right..some form of that principal does seem to be nearly
universal in the various spiritual philosophies.
There is one major difference, tho. Christianity's version is singular in
that it is INVERTED. Most are along the lines of "Do not do unto to others
what you would not have done to you."
Only in Christianity is it worded "DO unto others as you would have others
do
unto you".
This is not insignificant - it provides a loophole to take action in someone
else's life while ignoring their own wishes, as long as what you do is
something YOU would want. It allows justification for the prosyletizing
and
moralistic legislating that is such a large feature of Christianity in the
secular world.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... Makes you feel insignificant, doesn't it? Can we have your liver?
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 15:31:45
EID:d6de 22467be0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb5099
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Roger were killing time yakking about ...:
AS> misused. Religion is even more powerful, both in its use and misuse.
AS> It might be balanced against the female infants who were exposed to
AS> infanticide in the classical pagan world....and who were instead
AS> allowed to live under the Christian worldview. Over centuries, for
AS> over a thousand> and a half years.
RH> And you think that is a GOOD thing? Have you noticed how many
RH> females we have these days?
RH> Uppity bitchy ones, at that....
RH>
ROTFL!
Well, you could try exposing me now, but one of us would likely just get
arrested. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... 5 ages of woman - baby, infant, miss, young woman, young woman
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: U don't push a women
|Date: 06 Feb 97 18:16:13
EID:ae28 22469200
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb509a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f52380
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Rod were killing time yakking about U don't push a women:
AS> Well, the best defense is a good offense....
RS> And this is a tertiary reason I do not wish to have my page
RS> associated with you.
RS> If I do find that you remain linked, I will change the URL, and
RS> remove all references to my surname, hence making an Altavista
RS> search impossible. Not kidding.
Tsk. You realize of course, that this will earn you a journal entry.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž All E-mail gladly recieved. Offensive reply ASAP.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 07 Feb 97 17:31:11
EID:f862 22478be0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb7188
REPLY: 1:229/622 32fa70f7
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dave Hamilton said "the pitter-patter of" to Katherine Wintersnight,
adding:
KW> he'll be treated like any other more 'regular' death. I do remember
KW> my father commenting that this was one of the reasons that religion
KW> was listed on the dog tags.
DH> I never knew the religion was on US tags. I just went to look
DH> at my father's.
I was listed as "NO PREFERENCE", which was about as
close to "atheist" as the U.S. Army could bring itself to
come back in the Eisenhower administration.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: All
|Sub: Tagline material
|Date: 07 Feb 97 17:35:37
EID:1284 22478c60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb7189
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f96ccc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Most Read Book" to Fredric Rice,
adding:
KY> Are you sure it is me that is ignorant? I am a hisotry of buff of
KY> sorts,
No comment required.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 07 Feb 97 17:37:24
EID:58c5 22478ca0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb718a
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f99a06
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "READING INCOMPREHENSI" to Becke Boyer,
adding:
BB> And how do you know this comes from God, and not just the psyche?
KY> I just felt the annointing of God on the speaker..
It's bad enough to have you forever talking about
homosexuality without your also presenting samples of your
disgusting behavior with the greasy sweat of guys with big
hair who wear polyester suits. I'm trying to eat _lunch_
here, fer chrissakes!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Taking liberties
|Date: 07 Feb 97 17:43:09
EID:0ecd 22478d60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb718b
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32fb5097
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda Bustilloz said "Taking liberties" to Don Martin,
adding:
DR> I think nothing of the sort. Please don't jump to such conclusions
as
DR> you don't yet know nearly enough about me. :)
DM>
DM> In another post, you asserted all sorts of things about my
DM> mental state, yet I put it to you that you do not know diddly shit
DM> about me. Why must Lynda play by a different set of rules?
LB>
LB> Because, silly, I'm a GURRRRL...
Oh. Well, that makes ALL the difference in the world,
doesn't it? Girls are so transparent, so easy to figure out.
Just ask Freud. It'll be a snap for boy genius Ragland.
LB> BTW, none of my posts..NONE..have made it off of Above Board in well
LB> over a month. Those that have made it out to the FIDO world at large
LB> are those that I've been shooting through a telnet bbs.
Not the best news I got lately. My regular BBS depends
upon Metronet (my email BBS) for feeds, and Metronet is
having trouble with the telco getting the phones installed.
Growl.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: [1/2] He Come de Judge
|Date: 25 Jan 97 15:32:59
EID:a986 22397c00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f0
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def94e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 1 of 2...
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about He Come de Judge:
AS> The Dark Ages would have happened, with or without Christianity.
LB> And by what crystal ball are you divining THAT assertion? The Dark
AS> History. The barbarians who took over when Rome fell, were, for the
AS> most part, non-Christians. Although they later converted (some to
AS> Arianism).
LB> Ages were brought on and maintained in large measure by the
LB> prohibitions and superstitions of a theology that promoted the Divine
LB> Right of Kings no matter how stupid, ignorant or dog-mean they were
(as
LB> long as they paid due tithe and honor to the church) and told the
LB> peasant class it was gods will that they stay there. And that EVERYONE
LB> who bitched faced eternal damnation which was presented in very
LB> colorful terms. But just hang on...the squalor you live in now is
LB> nothing to complain about or try to rise above...just stay humble,
LB> people, because Jesus is coming back real soon now.
History Al.
Diocletian and Constantine radically changed what the Empire was, to such
a
degree that it might be said that it "fell" due to them wiping it out of
existance. Diocletian reforms included splitting the Empire in half and
reducing the protection given to the West by Roman soldiers, setting up
the
power base so that it was Caesar that was revered, rather than the Empire
itself, and making the local middle class responsible for collectiong taxes,
rather than the Roman soldiers. Said middle class was held responsible for
making up the difference for any shortages in taxes for their region, thus
instituting the whole idea of serfdom, and effectively wiping out the middle
class in the process. His other 'reform' was to institute hereditary status,
so that a person was held to the class and career of their parents, ending
any opportunity for advancement under one's own initiative.
Constantine picked up right where Diocletian left off, except that, where
Diocletian made christians the scapegoat for the civic woes brought on by
the changes, Constantine took a look at the new religion and realized that
-
with its emphasis on not being concerned with the troubles of this world,
and
its insistance that people accept where they are as god's will - it was
the
PERFECT religion to control the unhappy masses, and by 396, he had made
it
the official state religion in both the eastern and western regions, after
he
got done deciding just how he wanted it to be, with the Nicene council and
a
heavy hand in determining which scriptures would be 'official'.
The religion's expansionist tendancies gave him a holy reason to encroach
on
wayward Britian, and he HIRED 'barbarians' to invade there. He hired them
also
to keep in line those areas of the Empire that weren't getting with the
program
of being happy about their status, like good little christians should be.
These freelance soldiers were most definitely fed by christian theology
- they
were not ignorant of it, or unaware of its uses as a power tool.
What Constantine *also* did was move the seat of power out of the West,
basically abandoning it to its own devices. This alone is probably the BIGGEST
reason why the Dark Ages started there in the first place. The East never
had
a "dark ages". Most of what we have that is preserved is from the Eastern
side,
and a comparison with the quality of labor produced by eastern monasteries
and
western during that time makes that real apparent.
Other things the Christian Constantine did: he added to the coffers of his
empire by seizing gold and other valuables from pagan temples (no more the
official policy of religion tolerance, that was destroyed by his predecessor,
and under Christianity was given full approval by god himself now).
By 400 AD, Rome was no longer the hub of the Empire, so what fell was a
ghost town. The person left in charge there was the Roman Bishop (you know,
the dude who's title would someday be "Pope"). Said Bishop negotiated with
Attila the Hun in 455, bribing him to spare Rome. The Bishop and Rome enjoyed
a long alliance with the Germans over the next few centuries, using them
as a
whip for his own increase in power.
Basically, this is what the Roman Empire had become under the Christian
leadership of Constantine and his successors:
The Christian church was the official religion and no others were permitted.
The Church was the agent of the Empire, acting with governmental authority.
The idea of the Emperor being god (a reform of Dioclatian, in the glory
days
of Rome, the Emperor was "First Citizen" among peers) had, under Christianity
gone to semi-divine status, holding that his powers were God-given and
unquestionable. The military power had shifted into the hands of the Germans,
subcontracted out, rather than Rome's policy of a long standing Army. The
tax changes had wiped out the middle class in favor of a heretitary class
structure, and commerce was dying out, causing cities, educational emphasis
for the common citizen, road repairs, all to decay from neglect. The loss
of
roads was a big one - no more was there a sense of being a part of the Empire,
as local regions became little kingdoms all their own, cut off from outside
communications. Constantine himself lost the sense of wider responsibility,
leaving most of the empire to its own devices, while continuing to exact
taxes
from them.
>>> Continued to next message...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: [2/2] He Come de Judge
|Date: 25 Jan 97 15:33:00
EID:9ab5 22397c20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f1
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def94e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 2 of 2...
And HERE, Al, is where it led: he put the military into German hands. The
German 'barbarians' had always prospered well by trading with the Roman
Empire, and suddenly the western part of that empire had no COMMERCE, affecting
their prosperity as well. When they stopped gaining benefit from commerce,
and stopped being paid to protect the west as soldiers, they invaded. And
our
Christian Constantine did nothing to stop it....he set it all into motion.
The Empire fell internally, under Christian rule, the 'barbarians' just
swept
up the remnant.
AS> with that. My own ancestors (German, Celtic, Anglic, etc.) were such.
AS> We could have been like that for the next thousand years. Don't
Think about something Al. If the barbarians were responsible for the Dark
Ages as nonchristians, WHY didn't they wipe out Christianity? Why WASN'T
their form of worship the way it was for the next 1000 years?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž There is only one Path to Divinity, and they are all it.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:01:04
EID:5f78 223a8820
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f2
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def95a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about SUPERSTION:
LB> A guy dying and coming back to life three days later....real enough
to
LB> eat fish, but walking through walls, going UNRECOGNISED for the better
LB> part of a long journey and only being recognised as he leaves (hey!
Who
LB> WAS that masked man?!?), and then as a final encore being raised up
to
LB> the clouds, waving bye bye and saying "I'll be baaaaaack"....that
LB> sounds FAR more "real life".....
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig. Al prefers
LB> superhero comics.
AS> And fantasy. And sf. Etc.
AS> But we can judge with at least some measure how likely day-to-day
AS> things are...like twins appearing and flawlessly acting just like the
AS> twin who died...and deceiving people who travelled with them for a
AS> year. You don't have any way to measure how "likely" a miracle can
AS> be. Not at all.
AS> If someone tells me that Kennedy saw Lincoln's ghost in the White
AS> House, I can't tell you how unlikely it was. I have no data.
AS> If you tell me that JFK and Oswald were gay lovers, and that Oswald
AS> shot him in a jealous rage, though, I WILL laugh at that. Because the
AS> natural we know, and can estimate what sounds likely.
So you're saying that in the absence of ANY real life indicators, you err
on
the side of belief? That the more fantastic and "magical" it is, the more
credance you are willing to start with.
That explains much.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž New truths begin as heresies and end as superstitions.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:03:55
EID:61ce 223a8860
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f3
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f614
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
LYNDA and ROBERT were killing time yakking about He Come de Judge:
AS> The Dark Ages would have happened, with or without Christianity.
LB> And by what crystal ball are you divining THAT assertion?
RC> Because he says so. Isn't that enough?
Well...no....
RC> Silly Harpy!
I am NOT the silly harpy! I am the caffeinated harpy!
Now, Rod Swift has been pushing for harpy status. With the right kind of
bribes, we MIGHT consider letting him be the Silly Harpy.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "Commander, I've had enough of you!" -- Ro
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:06:46
EID:d612 223a88c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f4
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ae5c59b3
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Marilyn were killing time yakking about He Come de Judge:
LB> The Dark Ages would have neither been so dark, nor lasted for
LB> so many ages without the loving touch of christianity to aid
LB> and abet it.
MB> William Manchester in _In a World Lit Only by Darkness_ says that
MB> the only thing that broke the church's hold on the people was
MB> moveable type. He claims that without the telephone, teevee,
MB> radio, etc., Pope Leo got word of the seriousness of Luther's
MB> heresy too late to do anything about it, because Luther had the
MB> printing press and could disseminate both his point of view and
MB> the scriptures among the people who then passed Luther's tracts on
MB> and on and on. By the time Leo figured out that his schism was a
MB> real threat, it was already too late.
I think that's so, along with the new rise of a middle class. Once people
could move outside the boundaries of the class into which they were born
(put
there and held there by 'god's will'), they were able to see a wider view
of
the world than that handed them by the Church.
MB> Maybe the Bible was right on this one point: Ye shall know the
MB> Truth and the Truth shall make you free.
Amen to that.
MB> ... Yes, my god exists! I carved him from wood myself.
I prefer soap, for that clean pure feeling. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž He who gives up freedom for security deserves neither.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: SUPERSTITION
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:10:29
EID:3e7f 223a8940
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f5
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 271adf89
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Marilyn were killing time yakking about SUPERSTITION:
LB> being recognised as he leaves (hey! Who WAS that masked
LB> man?!?), and then as a final encore being raised up to the
LB> clouds, waving bye bye and saying "I'll be baaaaaack"....that
LB> sounds FAR more "real life".....
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig.
LB> Al prefers superhero comics.
MB> I'm really bothered by these clowns that need all the hokus-pokus
MB> in order to maintain their "spirituality." What's wrong with just
MB> seeing that life is better if it's lived by Jesus' message of
MB> treating others decently? What's wrong with seeing Jesus as a
MB> prophet rather than as god incarnate? What's wrong with just
MB> admitting that magic isn't in the cards, and there's a reality
MB> out there that we are better off if we learn to cope with it?
What's wrong with that is that it leaves out that wonderful warm fuzzy
feeling that comes from thinking you have some inside track on the Truth
.
To those that really, really, really NEED to be right, there's nothing like
the strokes you get from thinking even GOD thinks you're right.
MB> Religion that hangs or falls on a bunch of abacadrabra is a poor
MB> way to live one's life, IMNSHO.
I certainly places some interesting stressers on its adherants: one must,
no
matter how intelligent, turn off that intellect when considering the obvious
and declare that - because it IS abracadabra - they can't dispute it, therefore
must believe it. Too convoluted for me.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "It is bad luck to be superstitious."
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:22:19
EID:9fbd 223a8ac0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f6
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e541b8
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Brian were killing time yakking about Hypocritical people:
BS> Lynda speaks:
LB> The issue IS about choice, Brian.
BS> I see red when I see folks being pro-life who are ALSO the sort of
BS> pro-lifers who are the "get in your face" types. I can't tell you how
BS> much that, and the in your face sort of christian, ticks me off.
BS>
BS> Life is nothing but choice. (am I a in your face pro-choicer...thats
BS> what I was thinking as I wrote the prior paragraph) sigh...
*chuckle* Yes, I've noticed a tendancy for you to be "in-your-face". But
that
isn't uncommon here in Holysmoke.
BS> you, (and I as well) we have
LB> Why does it cloud the issue?
BS>
BS> "and I as well" is meant to be read that I think the same way as you
BS> and Marilyn do. It may not cloud the issue for you to add in your
BS> "and I am against abortion .... for myself" For me, one is either
BS> pro-choice, pro-life..... ok, I do live in a black and white world
BS> sometimes....so sue me! (g)
:) I think what clouds the issue is labels like "pro-life" and "Pro-abortion".
I can count on one finger the number of those in favor of legalized abortion
who are "pro-abortion", that is, promoting the joys of abortion. Most would
much rather seek solutions to end the need for abortions in as many ways
as
possible, such as adequate education and availability of birth control.
And
pro-choicers are also pro-life, especially when it comes to the life, dignity
and well-being of the mother, who is UNDENIABLY a human being (whereas the
personhood of the fetus is a metaphysical question.)
BS> Kind of like this, I believe in God, and I believe what the christians
BS> expouse concerning Jesus and God....blah blah blah however, I do not
BS> wish to be called a christian, as for me, my hangup, I do not wish to
BS> have that label.
I understand the disinclination for the label. I went through similar last
year.
When you say that you believe what christians espouse concerning Jesus and
God,
what, specifically, do you mean? They are all over the map regarding shades
of belief.
For me, once I stopped trying to operate within the confines of the label,
it became far easier to look objectively at those beliefs I had taken for
granted. There is very little of standard christian theology I can accept
anymore, other than those areas that are more 'universal truth' and not
confined to christian views.
BS> But I couldn't swear that all what the christians
BS> expouse is true, or what I believe is true, I certainly DO NOT KNOW.
BS> I can only believe....well, I can have hope too.
:) well, NO Christian can know (or anyone else either). The only choice
there
is whether to acknowledge the impossibility of knowing or not.
Absent certain knowledge, I try to look at it with reason....those areas
that
don't hold up to reason, or for which there are easy and obvious objections,
are met with a lack of belief by me.
BS> Nuff of this....
BS> Thanks for the non jumping down my throat reply to my note.
Not a problem. But don't get overly used to it. I'm known as Catty Bitch
and
Harpy, and come by each honestly.
If I may make a suggestion, Holysmoke isn't a place for those who can't
deal
with having someone jump down their throat occasionally. The solution is
to
monitor your own posts to your own satisfaction, and never, EVER insist
that
someone should speak in a certain manner because of something as trivial
as
whether or not they pee standing up. In other words, and translated into
the vernacular, I can be as fucking crude as Marilyn when I see a piece
of shit
post, too, and do when the occasion calls for it. :)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "Worship the truck farmer at the church of your choice!"
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:20:38
EID:81f3 223a9280
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f7
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A73C722
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Judith were killing time yakking about SUPERSTION:
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig. Al prefers
LB> superhero comics.
JB> How can anyone revere a character who hasn't changed his clothes in
50
JB> years?
Why not? Jesus' old bedding is still being revered. And that thing hadn't
been
washed in centuries!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "magic, n. an art of converting superstition into coin."
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:22:05
EID:ca51 223a92c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f8
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 fb96b182
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Jim were killing time yakking about Always Downward!:
JS> Perhaps, but the Lovely Wilbur [tm] has done nothing to deserve such
JS> abuse.
RS> She's involved with you. That's abuse enough!
JS> Evidence!?
LB> That she's involved with you? You have a point there, Jimmy....we have
LB> none. ;)
JS> Judging by the first and second generation offspring we have, I would
JS> say we were rather deeply involved with each other...
Ah, but that first generation (assuming they ARE yours, and there are so
few
ways for you men to really know that for sure) only indicates involvement
YEARS ago, not now.
As to the second generation, I really don't want to think about how directly
involved you may have been with their conception.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Sex is nobody's business except the three people involved
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: World stops again!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:26:27
EID:7893 223a9340
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7f9
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e5989a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Jan were killing time yakking about World stops again!:
AS> Such as when prayers are answered, for instance. A good example can
AS> be found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when
AS> the world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
Jd> Gee, Al - you don't suppose he read an account of the world 'stopping'
Jd> in the bible?
Jan, I am not Al.
A fact we are BOTH profoundly grateful for, I'm sure. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Bonds almost instantly!
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: ?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:30:16
EID:5484 223a93c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7fa
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2e690ca9
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Mimi were killing time yakking about ?:
MM> Lynda Bustilloz wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
LB> Ron wasn't on target with his comment to Michael, so it
LB> qualifies as a misfire, but not as a comment that was not
LB> allowable or beyond the standards of Holysmoke as a whole.
For clarification: The above is a statement of opinion on my part,
not an assumption. Have you anything specific to dispute about it?
LB> It appears it misfired into you...have you been considering
LB> that Michael's reassessment of his faith is due to his
LB> wife's health, and therefore should tactfully be avoided?
Again for clarification: this is a question, with an opinion at the
front of it. The opinion can be disputed, if you'd like to - as it was
not expressed as an 'assumption' I would be glad to hear any correction
you might have to offer. Unfortunately, you failed to offer any.
LB> Health, rape....you seem to have a list of things Not To Be
LB> Discussed By Polite Society. Well, Mimi, get a clue --
LB> Holysmoke isn't Polite Society. Ron understands that. So
LB> does Michael. And you're not such a newcomer that you
LB> shouldn't.
MM> That dead horse has been just about flogged to distraction.
No, Mimi, if you are still distractable, I don't think you qualify as dead.
Suffering from hoof-in-mouth disease, perhaps, but I'm fairly sure you'll
live.
MM> Vass made a goof under the subject heading "? SOUL ?"
MM> I remarked he sounded like a vicious jerk.
So, stating something sounds like something is ok, or should be met an
accusation of "assumption"? Please make up your mind, dear. DOING what you
object to someone else doing in the very same post is a tad ridiculous.
MM> Curry jumped out of the swamp, took the sample at face value,
MM> forgot the beginning of the thread, and started to moan in
MM> all directions, on, and on, and on.
MM> And now you...
The HORROR!! Taking you at face value!! Shame on Curry. I'll whip him for
you at next opportunity.
MM> All your assumption are completely off the mark. My opinions
MM> on Mike's reassessment, polite society, disallowance of
MM> subjects - you must be kidding...
Nice assertion...would you like to be specific regarding what and how it
is
off the mark? That WAS in fact the nature of my QUESTION above. Which you
failed to answer, and have merely leapt to calling it 'wrong'.
And no, I was NOT kidding.
I am extremely interested in why you would find questions regarding personal
trauma and issues of mortality as they affect spiritual choices to be either
off-topic or nonpertinent in a religious debate echo.
MM> I see you have spent a lot
MM> of time catching up on old msgs, but you obviously (in spite
Oh, I'd kept up, it was just getting the messages I'd posted from the last
couple weeks to actually go beyond the bbs that I was posting from that
was
the challenge.
MM> of all your famous marbles) are still capable of misinterpretations
MM> while offering advice on correct behavior in HS.
Obviously I'm capable of misinterpretation, Mimi. That is why I ask questions.
Did you misinterpret the question mark?
MM> Get a clue, Lynda.
May I borrow yours? You don't seem to be using it.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "... to gather a few laurel leaves." "Cpt., we are beyond that now."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Baby in Critical Condition
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:49:53
EID:ae58 223a9620
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32eba7fb
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e70147
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
h and Al were killing time yakking about Baby in Critical Condition:
h? I've been demoted to h?? Not even capitalized??
AS> I think He did save the kid...eternally.
LB> I don't believe you said that.
AS> Why not?
Because I keep wanting to believe better of you.
AS> I think the same about my nephew who was hit by the bus.
I truly hope you don't tell his parents that.
AS> This echo gets so odd sometimes...half the people mock me by saying
AS> that Christians should gladly kill their kids and send them to Heaven,
AS> but if I mention that I think that God will bring salvation (rather
AS> than damnation) to such innocents, though doing so is a reprehensible
AS> act which might end the PERPETUATORS of such damnation, some can't
AS> believe I said that.
Saying, in effect, that thoughts of some imaginary eternal salvation make
up
for the death of a child and promoting that as having any comfort value
is
hideous. In effect, you MAKE the point those derisive comments about killing
kids before they reach the age of accountability are pointing to.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "If it said that Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe it." WJB
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: "might"
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:01:10
EID:b01f 223aa820
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ebf69a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacadf
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ROBERT and Al were killing time yakking about "might":
AS> Do let me know what the REAL Robert Curry thinks...if there
AS> is one.
RC> He thinks you're an idiot. And he's not alone in that assessment.
AS> Tsk, tsk. And yet Lynda castigates me for citing others who agree
AS> with me. Will she do so for you?
Whattaya think? 5 points?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Oh, joy. Yet another round of dueling dictionaries" Robert Curry
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: fucked up priorities
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:09:17
EID:4703 223aa920
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ebf69b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb0e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ROBERT and Al were killing time yakking about fucked up priorities:
RC> How convenient. So Jesus does nothing to help the rape victim. Why not
RC> take the poor child's place? The rapist would still get to rape Jesus,
RC> so HIS free will wouldn't be negated, but the child would be helped.
AS> Then society as a whole (rather than just a collection of
AS> individuals) would never grow up, never have to grapple with hard
AS> questions, never learn to police itself...like a grown man waited on
AS> hand and foot by a too-doting parent.
Tell me, do you think society 'as a whole' (and I assume you are speaking
of
humanity in toto, not just our modern american society) has grown up at
all?
Are we advancing in maturity from age to age?
RC> But no. Jesus WANTS little children to suffer. He does NOTHING.
AS> As the black policeman who allows a hate filled Aryan Nation or Klu
AS> Klux Klan parade to go by, WANTS them to express hate at minorities?
That policeman will step in when it goes from expressing a desire to hurt
to
actually beating someone up. He doesn't sit and watch, and then say, "Its
ok,
I was there with you the whole time" to the person lying bloody on the
ground.
AS> Or does he instead respect a law, and the principle behind it (of
AS> free speech) even more than the hate and evil spewed by such?
AS> Free will is such a principle with God.
Joe wasn't just practicing free speech. He was holding knives to my throat
for
the fun of it and slamming me face first into the wall if I didn't move
fast
enough to do whatever he said. And that's just the stuff I can bring myself
to
talk about.
RC> Why not simply take the place of the child, then?
AS> Because follow it to its logical conclusion, Robert. If Jesus or God
AS> substitutes for every victim, no one will ever comprehend what it is
AS> like to be victimized.
So I was abused to learn not to be cruel. How is that different from saying
the purpose was to make me a better person? Or taken impersonal, that rape
IN GENERAL is done to make society IN GENERAL better?
AS> sicker and sicker... Just think of it. Lynda's ex could give into his
AS> sadistic impulses without letup, without surcease, without fear of the
AS> consequences.
That's the way it was, Al.
AS> But now, they will be able to give into thier impulses...without
AS> feeling ashamed, rather glorying in it.
As was that.
AS> The girl who was not raped grows up to enjoy putting red-shot branding
AS> irons on people.
So in your world, those who aren't exposed to victimization become
victimizers? Again, how does the above differ from saying that rape makes
a
person better?
You are a very strange man, Al.
RC> theology of a sadistic god who says one thing but does another.
RC> Actions, and inactions, speak louder than words.
AS> Inaction is much better than the WRONG action.
Sometimes. But a LITTLE action, like having some clear response to a cry
for
help - even to say I needed to endure it because of a greater good - would
have been preferable to NOTHING.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... A virgin girl who is raped must marry her rapist. Deut. 22:28-29
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:25:01
EID:884c 223aab20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ebf69c
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacae3
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Roger and Al were killing time yakking about ...:
AS> Well, is Jesus not making a sacrifice because He is to be
RH> No.
AS> Whipping with a Roman scourge and being tortured on the cross for
AS> hours isn't sacrifice?..
No more of a sacrifice than the thieves on either side of him made. And
less,
since he only put up with death for three days.
AS> It is indeed. As the legislature sets the consequences of arson; and
AS> someone commits arson...they go to an assigned punishment. (But it
AS> still remains the arsonist's choice to do the arson.)
AS> But in this case the legislator decided to give the arsonist a
AS> second chance, and went to jail FOR him. And any arsonist can claim
AS> it...if they ask.
You've been reading Chick comics, haven't you? How does your analogy differ
from JJ's description of the new one, where the mother gets executed for
her
son's crime?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... Love to chat, but I must get back to the ritual sacrifice!
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:49:55
EID:0ec3 223b0620
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ecabd9
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e70130
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about .:
RV> Check the crowd, likely a women in the back ground
RV> with a chocolate pie and an evil grin.
AS> When it comes to pies, I prefer lemon meringue anyway...
LB> A real Sourpuss, eh? ;)
AS> Also, last I heard, there were no lemon-flavored laxatives, which
AS> seems to be one of the main ingredients of the chocolate pie proferred
AS> by the Triple Goddess of #irc...
:) and we count on your continued ignorance of the many varied possibilities
for ingredients of a Harpy Pie...
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Albatross? What flavor is it?" "It's bloody albatross flavor, mate!"
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: . [1/3]
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:51:05
EID:efd7 223b0660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ecabda
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32e37864
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and Chris were killing time yakking about . [1/3]:
Hi Chris and Mo...
CG> Yes, I have an attitude!
Well, this would be the place for it...
CG> 3. You don't call someone a liar in the UK unless you can prove it.
Oh, sure ya do...some of us have been to the UK, don't go overboard in
pretending its the Land of the Milk of Human Kindness.
CG> 4. In a UK echo if you curse and swear, this is taken to mean that
CG> you are feeling punchy and want to have a fight.
This isn't a UK echo. I'd suggest you not let such trivia bring you to the
desire to come to blows. Its especially futile when your opponent is
separated from you by a computer monitor and a few thousang miles.
CG> 6. Annoy someone who is English and articulate, and you get 'polite
CG> pomposity' and we tend to smile a lot; usually just before we kick you
CG> in the balls.
At LAST! The truth is out! Al is British! (gentle smile)
CG> 7. Respect is something one gets from one's peers. {You are not my
CG> peers, you are a bunch of damnable foreigners}
*chuckle* Now, I LIKE that one. Of course, we could as easily say the same
about you.
CG> 8. Foreigners are all regarded with suspicion, especially those from
CG> Countries which claim to speak English - India.
CG> America and Australia are 'old penal colonies' and 'dumping grounds
CG> for ultra-right wing Puritan fanatics' so what can you expect....
Paranoia. Ok, at least you admit it.
CG> 13. There is also a feeling that Americans are basically paranoid,
CG> 'shoot first, shoot fastest, shoot the mostest' - not always a good
CG> way of conducting political warfare. Stereotyping? Or too many
CG> American films?
Hi, Mr. Pot.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Am I going overboard yet?
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: . [2/3]
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:56:50
EID:abd7 223b0700
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ecabdb
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32e37865
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and Chris were killing time yakking about . [2/3]:
CG> Maureen Green
CG> The above is Chris', mine follows:
Hi Maureen.
CG> Britains are not Brits, it is offensive.
:) We aren't Yanks...its offensive too, esp. in the Southern States. But
I
never noted a disinclination among the Brits in England during my time there
to calling us by the term.
CG> Nor can I find any understanding of what Chris's limitations and
CG> abilities are.
Sure we do, Maureen. Chris explained some of them to us (the rest is his
own
business and he's under no obligation to share anything). Chris had it
explained to him that special allowances are made to NO ONE here. We all
have
limitations, and for many of us its a welcome relief to come here for
conversation where we are not wrapped in cotton wool for them. That Chris
stayed is an indicator that he, too, found it to be a relief from the
wellmeaning, but occasionally overwhelming protectiveness of those near
and
dear to him.
CG> He was physically and sexually abused as a child, he has school and
CG> psychological reports giving him borderline schizophrenia and
CG> depression. Other reports talk about his ability with mathematics and
CG> abstract and conceptual thought, and his poetry.
There are people here who could fit every one of the 'limitations' and
abilities you mention.
CG> Chris does not like Americans, though he does try to overcome this.
CG> Early in his service a friend was killed, due to the actions of an
CG> american soldier, I don't know what happened.
CG> 1976, when he was first injured was due to an american soldier
CG> thinking it funny to fire a parachute flare along the ground and into
a
CG> group of vehicles doing something called "hot refuelling", this set
off
CG> a chain reaction, during which Chris was blown off a lorry loaded with
CG> petrol, across a clearing, and wrapped backwards around a tree.
Accidents happen. Blaming an entire population of people for them isn't
worthy
of someone who wants to be considered intelligent. Our military has its
share
of stories to tell about the idiocies of the British military too. Tell
me,
do your medics still feed tea to injured soldiers?
CG> He is a mountain leader, he hates hieghts but always looks danger in
CG> the face, just as he will stand eye to eye and toe to toe with a bully.
Has it occured to you, then, that that is perhaps what he's doing here?
Would
you really suggest he'd want you to create a Bunny Slope out of Holysmoke,
and protect him from facing this challenge?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Actual war is a very messy business.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: . [3/3]
|Date: 27 Jan 97 01:06:21
EID:57d6 223b08c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ecabdc
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32e37866
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and Chris were killing time yakking about . [3/3]:
CG> 1980 second time he was injured, again by americans who were 150 miles
CG> away from their own exercise, and what the hell they're just Brits.
Oh come now! You have a few prejudices of your own, it seems.
I do appreciate the biography you wrote about him. He's fortunate to have
someone so unabashedly proud of him in his life. However, someone who has
met and overcome as many challenges as what you describe can certainly face
Holysmoke without you there to bare your teeth and hiss if we don't
pat him on the head and treat him like the poor little disabled guy.
CG> for himself and for others. He has little time for people who cannot
CG> laugh at themselves or who take themselves too seriously. He dislikes
CG> people who think that you can use filthy language in a messaging echo
CG> that you would not use face to face, not use at home and not get from
CG> your TV.
Like Benny Hill or Monty Python?
CG> He thinks that education is a means and not an end in itself, and has
CG> not use for people who think that qualifications are the be all and
CG> end all, I've read some of the crap you people have written, had you
CG> sent it to me, I'd have sent it to the REC or ZEC and had this echo
CG> banned.
And what organizations are these, that you think they have any control over
or concern about Holysmoke?
CG> I feel like taking a whip to most of you.
:) I'm sure you do. It would probably reduce the stress you're feeling
if
you did. Enjoy! Here in Holysmoke we won't try to make you play nice. Just
don't ask more of us than we will of you.
BTW, "most of us", me included, never posted to Chris.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Acetone = What you do in exercise class...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Baby in Critical Condition
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:12:33
EID:33d3 223d8980
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ef8a76
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32ee8d43
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda Bustilloz said "Baby in Critical Condition" to Al Schroeder,
adding:
LB> I don't believe you said that.
AS> Why not?
LB> Because I keep wanting to believe better of you.
As a therapist I know in Richmond might put it:
"Ambushed, again, by hope."
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Al's God of Love
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:16:25
EID:9ef1 223d8a00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ef8a77
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32ee8d4c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda Bustilloz said "Al's God of Love" to Al Shroeder,
adding:
AS> No. I'm saying that God will not rape anything...including your free
AS> will or your mind...even to stop you from doing anything.
LB> What was the victim doing, other than getting raped?
Well, shoot! That ought to be enough for _anyone_ to do
at one time . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:21:29
EID:1a99 223d8aa0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ef8a78
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74605046
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Martin Goldberg said "Theft & Catholicism" to Michael Hardy,
adding:
MH> Sex is like pizza ... when it's good, it's terrific. When it's
MH> bad. it's still pretty good. ;)
MG> I hope that Little Caesar's never opens a cathouse.
Not even for the $9.95 Blow Job Blow Job?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 30 Jan 97 15:47:38
EID:ded6 223e7de0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0c7a3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32ee9170
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Determined to dazzle us all with his perspicacity, Ken Young
said "Hypocritical people" to Don Martin, adding:
MB> wrong, there is no freedom at all.
Pa> I would agree, generally, but when life is
Pa> concerned, I don't think we
Pa> can afford to be wrong.
DM> Right you are! With a global population approaching 6
DM> billion, we had better abort ALL of the little bastards!
DM> We'll have a great deal more latitude for right/wrong
DM> considerations when we get the numbers below 1 billion.
KY> I know most would disagree, but I do not believe there
KY> is any population problem at all.. More like a
KY> distribution problem, than one having to do with over
KY> population.
Yeah, right. And the reason species are becoming extinct
at an unprecedented rate (other than by major catastrophe,
like asteroid strikes) is merely "a distribution problem";
the reason many square miles of tropical rainforest are cut,
burned, and ploughed over daily is "a distribution problem";
the general global degradation of the environment is a mere
"distribution problem". Have you any evidence to support
your belief (apart from the fact that _you_, personally,
have all you want to eat) that all this is better explained
as "a distribution problem" than it is by overpopulation? Or
do you simply prefer to keep this "distribution problem"
unevidenced as a "feel-good" belief that you can wring your
hands over from time to time when in a pensive mood?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 30 Jan 97 16:51:41
EID:596d 223e8660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0e2d1
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Roger Hunter said "NATIVE AMERICANS" to Don Martin,
adding:
RH> the travois will not move backwards.
DM> On the Great Plaines of the U.S., before the Coming of the White
DM> Man, U-turns were permitted.
RH> Pay attention, Don. We were discussing the advantages of the travois.
RH> Not rolling backwards, as a cart will do, is an advantage on rolling
RH> ground.
Pay attention, Rog. No matter _what_ the topic, I
reserve the right to make observations, the relevance of
which may escape the humour-impaired.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:06:18
EID:8d37 223e88c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0e2d2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
DAVID RICE said "native americans" to DON MARTIN,
adding:
DM> Actually, central American Amerinds did have wheeled
DM> _toys_ before Columbus brought civilization to these
DM> shores,
DR> There was civilization on "these shores" before Columbus
DR> got here.
Really? Good thing I wasn't being sarcastic, then.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ALternative of Straw
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:35:20
EID:e768 223e8c60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0e2d3
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32ef871d
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith Bandsma said "ALternative of Straw" to Lynda Bustilloz,
adding:
LB> Show me that Mary 1. had ever indicated she wanted to be knocked up
LB> EVER by God. Then show me 2. how she, full of stories of God doing
LB> terrible things to those who go against HIS will, would ever have found
LB> the courage to complain about it after the fact.
JB> Mary had no choice in it from the time of her own conception. The
JB> sperm and egg that produced her were granted immunity from 'original
JB> sin' that EVERY baby is supposed to be born in...so that SHE would be
JB> the 'Immaculate Conception' worthy of bearing a god's child.
I had never thought about this before. It tends to
disqualify the claim that Jesus is "fully human", then,
doesn't it? As the son of a mother physically and morally
set apart from all mankind from her own conception, he
certainly does not share the human condition. So much for
_that_ myth.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:46:56
EID:cb4d 223e8dc0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0e2d4
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32eed5cc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Cheese Whiz" to Rod Swift,
adding:
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
RS> ... so does the death penalty.
KY> AH, but that is ending the life of the guilty.. Abortion is killing
KY> the innocent. A bit of a difference there..
RS> ... so does killing a {gay person/witch/heretic/atheist/doctor}
RS> for your god...
KY> I would agree with you there.. Fortunately, I do not know anyone that
KY> would kill any of those people, just because of the labels you gave
KY> them above.
Yet you plaster the label of "person" on a fetus, call
it innocent, and somehow feel that you are making a point.
Got any non-theological support for non-viable fetuses being
ocnsidered persons in the eyes of the law? Pray trot it out,
then.
And, the limitations of your acquaintance to one side,
gays, witches, heretics, atheists, and doctors _have_ been
killed by persons claiming to be Christians. Most supposed
themselves to be carrying out their god's will by so doing.
Just because you do not happen to know any of these holy
killers does not mean that society is safe from their
ministry.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:52:44
EID:d2ed 223e8e80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f0e2d5
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32efcefa
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "MOST READ BOOK" to Becke Boyer,
adding:
BB>> Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions,
BB>> set up to terrify and
BB>> enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit..." (1)
KY> That is not the church, but rather, manmade churches.. I am speaking
KY> more of Christianity itself..
BB> There is a big difference between a single Christian
BB> and a church. At any rate, the same quote would apply
BB> to Christianity in general. Even organized religion in
BB> general. Diety constucts are human inventions, no more
BB> or no less. Behind the bunnies and white light
BB> theology, there are far more mistanthropic ulterior
BB> motives.
KY> Not Christianity in general, but rather, manmade Christianity. In
KY> other words, religious dogma. True Christianity is another thing
KY> entirely..
Until some nonbiblical evidence is provided for the
existence of supernatural beings, including your imaginary
superfriend, manmade is the only sort of religion available.
What you wish to call "True Christianity" is a product of
_your_ imaginings and not somebody else's. I suppose we can
stretch a point and call that "man-made", too. But god-made
it is not.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: dropping of names
|Date: 01 Feb 97 18:05:51
EID:6a6c 224190a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493e9
REPLY: 1:3603/210 29a9dc7b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ROBERT CURRY said "dropping of names" to MARTY LEIPZIG, adding:
ML> Where's the "three Martins"?
RC> What the fuck is it with trinities around here?
RC> The three Martins, the three Harpies, the three Rice Brothers....
The three Rice Brothers? I am aware of only Snap and Crackle:
where's Pop?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 01 Feb 97 18:51:25
EID:9049 22419660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493ea
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 223f5185
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Mark Kimes said "..." to Lynda Bustilloz, adding:
AS>> Just for God, because there are special circumstances here. We are
AS>> dealing with an omniscient and omnipotent being, who if He changes
AS>> the way He reacts to us will have enourmous repurcussions for all
AS>> of us.
LB> Just what is the point in declaring him to be omniscient or omnipotent
LB> if he dare not use either?
MK> And how would one differentiate between an omniscient, omnipotent
MK> being that cannot act and a senseless, powerless being that cannot act?
The ones that scare me are the ignorant and senseless beings who
_do_ act. We call them fundies, and they have shotguns.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Unborn teenagers
|Date: 01 Feb 97 18:58:15
EID:4a47 22419740
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493eb
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f2424b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jan deBoer said "Unborn teenagers" to Ken Whines, adding:
kw> And I have seen yours. Yours involves the indiscriminate
kw> killing of the unborn child whenever a woman wants
kw> to do so.
Jd> If the foetus is an 'unborn child', then it logically follows that
Jd> the elderly are 'undead corpses', and should be buried.
And Ken is old enough, however many years he owns.
Later, you say to Al Schroeder:
Jd> Claiming the bible as the work of men discredits it completely.
Jd> The cunning priesthhod realized a claim of inspiration by god would
Jd> also discredit the bible, - an all-knowing, infallible god doesn't
Jd> jive with inspiring errors, and the bible is riddled with
Jd> errors and contradictions. So, the priests of deception came up with
Jd> the marvellous evasion of 'god-breathed'.
Jd> Wanna explain just exactly what 'god-breathed' means, Al?
Jd> Are they sure it wasn't a gentle fart?
Sorry, but that's . It _is_ Al you're talking to,
after all.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: [1/2] Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97 19:20:51
EID:aac6 22419a80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493ec
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A82D116
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith Bandsma said "[1/2] Hypocritical people" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> I shall leave those who have read the prose of both of us to
DM> make any judgments they wish regarding our respective mental
DM> capacities; however, the fact of your being a lying sack of shit I
JB> Gee, he's impressed the shit out of me. So far, out of all the bible
JB> stories he's regaled us with, he's gotten them ALL wrong. And then
JB> accused everyone of lying when they've corrected him.
Well, you know that WOAs cannot possibly have read the Bible for
themselves, so they cannot possibly correct a real, true
Christian.
JB> You've never done that once. Is that what makes your messages so
JB> boring? That they are accurate? And accurate isn't nearly as
JB> entertaining?
And ten low facts oft drone in one dull line . . . .
JB> I know, I know...stay off the mountain side.
I have printed off the picture to send to son and daughter (to
keep them in their place).
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Confirmed miracles
|Date: 01 Feb 97 19:25:28
EID:cd42 22419b20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493ed
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A82D117
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith Bandsma said "Confirmed miracles" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> talking about X-Files stuff as evidence, aren't you!!!??!?!?
JB> No, he's talking about either A&E's or USA's 'Mysteries and Miracles'
JB> with Patrick McNee. You get the stories of angels and miracles back
to
JB> back with ghost sightings, UFO's and haunted houses.
I suppose that I was really thinking generically when I wrote
the above: _any_ spook show on television comes in below the
National Enquirer (lower than an earthworm's navel to begin with) in
the evidence department.
But speaking of which, I DO enjoy the tabloids as a delightful
way to while away the time in line at the Safeway. A couple of days
ago, the Weekly World News had a cover story on "HALF HUMAN-HALF
ALLIGATOR GIVES BIRTH!", with, natch, photos. The creatures depicted
looked like hideous caricatures of black folks from the waist up,
the rest saurian, the sort of thing one can suppose being produced
by a Kluxer as a bit of anti-miscegenation propaganda. The NAACP
should sue.
I did find it interesting that, though the relevant organs were
south of the anatomical dividing line, the human influence has made
the alligator half viviparous, so that it gave birth, rather than
laid an egg, but then one must wonder where the poor creature
managed to find a good OB.
I turned to the guy behind me in line and opined, "from the kind
of driving one sees on 95 by cars with Florida license plates, I
have long suspected that they were all alligator molesters down
there, and here's the proof!" He shot back, "Lonely? Can't get a
date? Call Gator Express, and enJOY!"
We got a good five minutes out of that one.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 01 Feb 97 20:08:24
EID:3706 2241a100
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493ee
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 748811a8
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Martin Goldberg said "Exemplifying examples" to Ken Young, adding:
KY> I doubt very much if he is specifically keeping food from
KY> people..
MG> Sure sounds like he is to me.
MG> Btw, don't you have a middle name? I'm too busy laughing at your
MG> initials to post too much to you.
Ol' Jelly Roll gets through to you, does he?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Boyer
|Sub: [1/2] Hypocritical Fingas
|Date: 01 Feb 97 20:52:35
EID:0f10 2241a680
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f493ef
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Paul Boyer said "[1/2] Hypocritical Fingas" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> and look it up for yourself." Nobody _said_ that Christianity was
DM> _not_ among the "top ten" of popular religions; _I_ said that it was
DM> a falsehood to state, as you did, that it comprised 2/3 of the
DM> world's population. In other words, you add additional lies in
DM> support of the first, confirming my observation that you are,
DM> indeed, a lying sack of shit.
PB> Actually, Don, he lied again.
PB> Judaism isn't anywhere near the top three -- Christianity (all
PB> denominations/ sects combined), Islam, and Buddhism hold those
PB> slots, though not necessarily in that order, followed by
PB> Hinduism... Judaism is, as a worldwide religion, pretty small
PB> beans, with its adherents numbering somewhere less than 100
PB> million worldwide.
That just goes to show you what happens when you make literacy
(with squiggly little letters, yet) a requirement for membership in
the religion--you lose out to all the illiterates in playing the
numbers game.
PB> Of course Jonny wouldn't deign to mention THAT, would he?
I really doubt he is capable of grasping it, much less of
putting the concept into words.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 04 Feb 97 16:38:47
EID:1c5a 224484c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f78229
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Roger Hunter said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
DC> What would you do if your god demanded that you do that rape?
AS> Refuse without a second's thought, even if it meant damnation.
DC> What would you do if your daughter was the victim and someone
DC> that could have prevented it didn't help?
RH> You know, if we keep hammering Al with these questions designed
RH> to point out the inconsistencies in his faith, something is going
RH> to break.
RH> I suspect it will be his willingness to post here.
Nothing has ever diminshed that in the past. I suspect
that in his case, denial simply means that he dances and
types faster.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: All
|Sub: Psychobabble denial
|Date: 04 Feb 97 16:43:17
EID:59aa 22448560
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822a
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000982e1
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David Ragland said "J.J. needs to be Hitt" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
MG> It's wonderful that you believe this nonsense. do
MG> you have any evidence for it?
DR> Why, yes. As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Look to your
DR> own evidence first though, ok? Specifically, look at
DR> why _you_ believe God exists and let's see how it
DR> compares to mine. Don't bother telling me you _don't_
DR> believe. I won't believe you. I don't believe "anyone"
DR> who says this. I believe they are just being
DR> rebellious.
Always _claim_ evidence, but rather than attempting to
present any, _always_ make unevidenced assertions about the
psychological state of the person requesting the evidence.
Assert in advance that you will not believe a word of what
he might say, unless he says that he agrees with your
assessment of his psyche: you will stamp your pretty little
foot and pout instead. With any luck, he will get upset
enough about your libel to forget about your evidence. If
that fails, you can always go away.
Let's see whether kindly ol' Dr. Glodbreg falls into
Ragland's clever trap, shall we?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: The goof knoweth in his heart . . .
|Date: 04 Feb 97 16:56:18
EID:33a5 22448700
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822b
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32ee551a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Paul Davis said "God came to stay" to Don Martin,
adding:
PD>> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would you want to
PD>> have a look?
DC>> No, I would prefer that he stayed in his house.
DM> Actually, the above is a great specimen for the
DM> "dumbest things said on the echo" file. If someone told
DM> me that God was staying at his house, I would wonder
DM> what the fuck he was doing wandering about and talking
DM> to ME instead of staying home to be a good host.
PD> Hey, why not draw conclusions from the irrelevant part
PD> of the statement. The premise is fictional right? The
PD> actual question is, if you were told where God is,
PD> would you go there? Would you?
The situation you present reminds me of a joke from the
40s: two goofs meet on the street. One has his hands cupped
together, and asks
"Guess what I've got here!"
"A Sherman tank?" the second ventures.
The first peers into the space enclosed by his hands,
cautiously between his thumbs so as not to let the second
see, confirms what he has, and says, "nope!"
"Ya gotta locomotive!" the second urges excitedly.
The first considers the space within his grasp even more
intently, again without letting the second see, and says,
"nah--yer not even close!"
The second, really excited now, says, "I know! I know
what it is! Ya got the New York Philharmonic Symphony
Orchestra!"
The first studies the crack between his thumbs with
exquisite care, close up, for a long time. "OK," he allows,
"but who's conducting?"*
Goofy assertions are of compelling interest only to
other goofs.
PD> Hey, I guess when people come to stay at your house
PD> that you never go out do you?
When _people_ visit, I go out, yes. In the unlikely
event that an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent
supernatural being showed up with his sleeping bag, I would
be hard put to find a more important place to be than in my
own home. Given the second of those three omnis, one would
not have to venture out for carry-out Chinese, would one?
________
* Given your obvious qualifications, you no doubt wanted to
know: it was Bruno Walter.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Goof^2
|Date: 04 Feb 97 17:08:05
EID:6562 22448900
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822c
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32ee5602
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Paul Davis said "archives" to Don Martin,
adding:
JB>> I'm looking for archives of the stupidest, most
JB>> illogical and/or the most repugnant posts to hit this
JB>> echo. (In the last year only, please, I don't have
JB>> THAT much space.)
DM> And I just wrote to Ceppa:
PD>> If someone told you God was staying at his house,
PD>> would you want to have a look?
DC>> No, I would prefer that he stayed in his house.
DM> Actually, the above is a great specimen for the
DM> "dumbest things said on the echo" file. If someone told
DM> me that God was staying at his house, I would wonder
DM> what the fuck he was doing wandering about and talking
DM> to ME instead of staying home to be a good host.
PD> I agree. What you state is one of the dumbest comebacks
PD> I've seen.
It comes as no surprise to me that your would think so.
PD> Again, I guess you never go out when people
PD> come to stay. Right?
It comes as no surprise to me that your would think so
twice.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Goof^3
|Date: 04 Feb 97 17:21:17
EID:c3de 22448aa0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822d
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32ee6826
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Paul Davis said "God came to stay" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
PD>> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would you want to
PD>> have a look?
DM>> things said on the echo" file. If someone told me that God was staying
DM>> at his house, I would wonder what the fuck he was doing wandering about
DM>> and talking to ME instead of staying home to be a good host.
DC> As he capitalized "God", must likely looking for something to make
a
DC> bloody sacrifice to it.
PD> It seems that you're not prepared to wait for a response from me and
PD> would rather debate some imaginary viewpoint of where I'm coming from
PD> that has no basis in fact, only in your POV.
Naughty, naughty, God Dan! Not waiting for pearls of
wisdom to drop from his keyboard before living your own
life? No _wonder_ the teenage pregnancy rate is up in this
country!
PD> Hey. That's fine by me. Do
PD> what you will. I could care a lot more.
But isn't it wonderful? You have his permission to
proceed. What joy!
PD> Hopefully, my replies to others earlier on has clarified why I asked
PD> the question,
He clearly asked it because he is a silly twit. His
replies to others demonstrate that quite well.
Weren't you the one complaining about a shortage of
fundies a bit ago?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 04 Feb 97 17:30:43
EID:5fd6 22448bc0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822e
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74a00788
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Martin Goldberg said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to David Ragland,
adding:
DR> Yes, but your asking me questions that you have _supposed_ I
DR> cannot answer is conducive to... nothing. It's nothing more
DR> than an attempt to prove that my ignorance of "whatever" you
MG> I claim that you know zilch on the subject. Please give me your
MG> comments on codon sequences and how they relate to evolution. Please
MG> tell me how codon preferences cna be used to show divergence of
MG> species from each other. Tell me how DNA footprinting is done and why
MG> it is important tot he disucssion. Tell me whtever you might know
MG> about molecular biology.
MG> To make it simple, put everything you know int he box below.
MG> [ ]
And be sure to label the box "Rattle OK".
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Information and Origin
|Date: 04 Feb 97 17:47:26
EID:c7cf 22448de0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7822f
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f4c9f5
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David Worrell said "Information and Origin" to David Ragland,
adding:
DR> If life is not created by an intelligent source
DR> then explain why life has information, Fred?
DW> If you God was not created by an intelligent source
DW> then explain why He has information, David? Is it gods
DW> all the way down?
No! The gods alternate with the turtles.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Heat [1/2]
|Date: 04 Feb 97 17:51:47
EID:461c 22448e60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f78230
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32f55859
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Andrew Masten said "Heat [1/2]" to Rod Swift,
adding:
AM> Without belaboring the point, I concede that Laurie, in what is evidently
AM> misguided enthusiasm, has gone over the line. Its too bad, because I
AM> think creationism can stand on its own merits without out resorting
AM> to unsavory tactics in its defense.
RS> Oh really? Care to provide some of the evidence that supports
RS> that theory?
RS> In fact, we've never had a Christian provide a point-by-point
RS> summary of the theory with a list of major evidentiary points,
RS> yet. Care to do that for us?
AM> Who's us Rod? Do you have a fan club?
AM> I have been posting on this board for over a year and
AM> have on several occasions provided a summary as well as
AM> evidentiary points.
Evidentiary? if you can believe _that_, I have a really
nice bridge I'd like you to take a look at. Both it, and the
river it crosses, are available for relocation to Australia.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 04 Feb 97 18:03:34
EID:94d3 22449060
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f78231
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f4c412
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Exemplifying examples" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
DC> Think quick: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
DC> And, just what two gods screwed each other to make your god?
KY> Easy.. The chicken, as God made the chicken with the
KY> capability to reproduce, so we would have more
KY> chickens. And God has always been. He has no beginning,
KY> nor end. He just is.
No end? No screwing for _him_, then. How did he knock up
Mary--was it a blow job, as those Renaissance artists
suggest?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: State of Quebec?
|Date: 04 Feb 97 20:02:47
EID:7763 2244a040
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7a5bf
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f5f192
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dave Hamilton said "State of Quebec?" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> I know that you shall have contributed a great deal to the well
DM> being of your country if you manage to contribute your Francophones
DM> to us, but be advised: we are on our guard (we don't seem to have the
DM> Russians to worry about any longer).
DH> Are you SURE you're not interested? They're not particularly
DH> dangerous, excepting possibly the Suritee, who can't seem to
DH> manage to identify suspects before blasting away at them.
Perhaps we could string them along the Mexican border:
that way they could bag the dreary returning tourists as
well as the would-be immigrants. But the rest are _still_
annoying, bitching away in a language understood neither by
Anglophones nor Parisians.
DH> They are the largest contributors of fine Canadian whine.
Of which you seem to have found an inexhaustible supply,
a la' Baldrick . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Getting Girls in Dutch
|Date: 04 Feb 97 20:09:34
EID:9e76 2244a120
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7a5c0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f640a3
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
You have probably already seen it (I am never at the
cutting edge of filmdom), but Ann and I just discovered
_Antonio's Line_ last night. If you have _not_ run into it
before, know that it is a treat. Dutch winner of the Best
Foreign Film oscar a couple of years back, it is the story
of a woman returning to her village after WWII to take over
the family farm after the death of her mother. Local
villagers were apparently cast by Heironimous Bosch and
display all the god and ill of the small, closed society.
The film is basically joyous, occasionally terrifying, and
beautiful throughout. Highly recommended for harpies and for
those who value the feminine.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 04 Feb 97 20:18:57
EID:3434 2244a240
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7a5c1
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f1f8c4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jim Goodman said "Oops, Caught Again" to David Worrell,
adding:
DW>Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other possible gods?
DW>Don't you think they're gonna be a little pissed that you spent
DW>your life worshipping Jehovah?
JG> If I were taking a somewhat opposing position I'd say
JG> the first point above about the other gods being pissed
JG> only holds if they actually exist.
If one _can_ exist, they _all_ may. There is no
disputing the order of preference between imaginary
superfriends.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Confirmed miracles
|Date: 04 Feb 97 20:51:53
EID:f635 2244a660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f7a5c2
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f534ee
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Richard Smith said "Confirmed miracles" to Don Martin,
adding:
JF> There have been reports in the news of paintings of Mary crying.
DM> And the Hindus have several statues of an Elephant God of theirs
DM> that does the same thing, only with tears of milk. There is a lot of
DM> that going around this season.
RS>
RS> The Deity in question, Ganesa or Ganesh, really shouldn't be
RS> weeping tears of MILK. Considering the tales of his drunken
RS> driving (he rides a rat) through the streets of various
RS> cities, milk should be the LAST thing flowing from him.
Ah, but this is the modern age, where simple
word-of-mouth about a god's drunken revels can no longer
pass current with the unwashed: milk _photographs_ a great
deal better than booze for the Weekly World News (and the
X-Files).
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 05 Feb 97 17:09:33
EID:ee58 22458920
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f8ccc5
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32dea2b0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Paul Davis said "This just in..." to Don Martin,
adding:
ML>> Food for thought department.
ML>> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML>> cell in California.
ML>> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications after a
ML>> two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML>> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
PD>> Not really, as I don't believe that God would think in
PD>> quite the same terms as you. You are judging CM on the
PD>> acts of a few days, whereas you're judging CS on his
PD>> entire lifetime. Hardly as fair a question as it first
PD>> seems is it?
DM> And precisely what achievements may we confidently
DM> expect from Manson between the present and his demise?
DM> Is he becoming another Bird Man even now on the verge
DM> of great ornithological discoveries? Or will he remain
DM> the same spooky little turd he has always been? If the
PD> Well, you tell me as you seem to know it all. AFAIC, CM
PD> is a person. What he has done is history. You seem to
PD> think that because of his history that he cannot
PD> achieve anything good.
And you are suggesting that because he is a person,
there is a greater-than-negligible chance that he will do
something between the present and his death that will alter
our opinions of him. I do not know it all, but I am quite
confident to suppose that the odds are pretty good that
Charles Manson will continue behaving as he has done
hitherto, and he will go to his grave a twisted little
creep.
PD> Not at all. As all people should be evaluated on the
PD> entirety of their existence, not just little snapshots
PD> to make points over others,
When the "snapshot" in Manson's case is his brainwashing
of a group of female followers, inducing them to commit a
multiple murder of innocent persons supposedly enjoying the
security of a private home, an act apparently unprecedented
in the annals of crime, you will pardon me for thinking it
highly likely that if he is remembered at all in 200 years,
it will be for that set of events and no other. What has
"fair" got to do with it? Our reputations are based on the
way others see our behavior, rightly or wrongly, and most
others see Manson as a vile little turd. You apparently do
not and await further developments in his character, an
activity certainly no more silly than spending your time
proposing fatuous questions on this echo. For your sake, I
hope he reforms and becomes the Mother Theresa of Beverly
Hills--that will doubtless have you fairly prancing with
joy. But until events indicate otherwise, I shall continue
to see Charlie as a vile little turd.
PD> the question can never be fair. It's not balanced.
Neither, it would appear, is your mind.
DM> await developments: I believe he has access to a
DM> library, so quite a number of possibilities are open to
DM> him, even in confinement. Certainly the confinement of
DM> Stephen Hawking within his body is more strict than
DM> that of Manson in his cell, so great achievements are
DM> yet within his grasp. Thank you for pointing this out
DM> to us all--I was about to give up hope on Chuck.
DM> Now will you plase hold your breath for all of us?
PD> Yes, as I've come to realise when peoples lives are
PD> based on emotional rubbish that most of their arguments
PD> deteriorate into personal abuse and sarcasm. Just as
PD> yours has.
Pray detail for us all the exact nature of "emotional
rubbish" upon which you claim I base my life. I am far more
interested in hearing this than I am your ridiculous
speculations.
PD> It seems to me that you have more in common with CM
PD> than CS. At least Carl used to present good arguments
PD> without lowering himself to abuse. It's a pity you
PD> can't follow his example.
He has his work, I mine. Now, pray tell us how my
delight in satire and ridicule makes me resemble Charles
Manson. Specific details, please.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Apologies to Regulars
|Date: 05 Feb 97 17:42:45
EID:7770 22458d40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f8ccc6
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32dea2da
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Not content to avoid worsening his reputation by keeping his
ideas to himself, Paul Davis said "Apologies to Regulars" to
Don Martin, adding:
DM>> Such a stratum would furnish perfectly good indirect
DM>> evidence for the existence of this Yahweh person, just as
DM>> tracings on a photographic plate tell us of subatomic particles
DM>> or the behavior of objects in space tells us of the existence of
DM>> enormous gravitational forces only explicable by the presence of
DM>> a black hole.
DM> So show us this stratum. That would be evidence.
PD> Only that there was a flood, and that it happens to be
But as I mention in another part of the post you quote,
that Flood is of particular interest as being, according to
Biblical report, directly caused by the posited god:
evidence for _it_ is direct evidence for that god.
PD> recorded in a book called The Bible. Funnily enough
PD> though, it isn't only recorded in Christian religion
PD> and has been noted in religions not related to
PD> Christianity at all.
There are flood stories from many of the cultures
arising on the flood plains of rivers, but not from cultures
arising on plateaux or mountainous regions; ever wonder why
that might be? Further, the accounts point to different
times; that of the Epic of Gilgamesh (from which the Noachan
story was, in all likelihood, plagiarized) must refer to an
earlier flood than the Genesis story, since it was written
some few centuries before the earliest books of the OT were,
which books are scrupulous to avoid citing their source for
the stories, creating the inaccurate impression that the
material originated with them. The literary evidence points,
then, to a number of separate floods and not to one
all-encompassing one. Besides, my request quoted above asks
you to point to a _stratum_ that must necessarily exist is
the account is true: it does _not_ ask you to trot out vague
allusions to other mythologies.
PD> (The name of one escapes me at the moment but
PD> that is not the issue anyway)
You've got that right, at least. The whole thing is
irrelevant.
PD> You can look for evidence of the flood if you wish. It
PD> won't prove anything except there was a flood.
No, _you_ get to look for evidence of the Flood, since
you are the one who appears to be interested in asserting
that it did, indeed, take place. The burden of proof is on
you.
PD> A good place to look might be under the sea. The
PD> sea-level is known to have changed drastically many
PD> times over the eons of time, and ice-ages would most
PD> definitely have an effect on sea-levels.
So, go look there. Incidentally, you may wish to check
out just how much variation of sea level is necessary for
the Flood and deal with the subsequent drainage problem
while you are at it.
PD> It has been shown scientifically that the Mediterranean
PD> Sea was once not a sea for instance. It dried up and
PD> they have found "evaporites" (deposits only found where
PD> sea's, lakes etc have dried up) under the sea at depths
PD> of +5000 ft. I'll look this up and give you more info
PD> if you wish.
Wonderful, but don't bother. Particularly wonderful is
why those "evaporites" did not go back into solution when
whey were once again submerged, but I shall leave the
explanation for that to your unnamed "scientists". _Many_
places have been shown to be other than what they now are:
the evidence points to tectonic activity, not to global
floods. You may check on this point with the resident
geologist, kindly ol' Dr. Leipzig: he will announce it with
great glee and many chuckles if my assertion is incorrect.
PD> I feel with Christianity that their dating of the time
PD> of the flood is extremely inaccurate and could be
PD> 10,000+ years out if it was caused by an ice-age
PD> ending.
Again, my demand for evidence quoted above specifies a
stratum: I asked for a thing. I do not give much of a damn
about _when_ the thing may have been produced when nobody so
far has been able to produce the thing itself. Should
somebody tell you of a wondrous flying pink Hippo named
Daisy, are you _really_ most concerned with Daisy's date of
birth? Come up with the stratum, and scientists shall be
able to date it quite precisely, if _that_ is of any concern
to you.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: George Mooth in Drag?
|Date: 05 Feb 97 17:52:15
EID:71ef 22458e80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f8ccc7
REPLY: 1:3800/49 00101b41
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David Ragland said "hypocritical people" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
DC>You are talking about a revolution occurring in which there are
DC>only 2 swords to handle at least a legion of Roman soldiers.
DC>Your godling was an idiot, at best.
DR> How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the
DR> scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you
DR> at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make
DR> known my words unto you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have
DR> stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought
DR> all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your
DR> calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as
DR> desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress
DR> and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will
DR> not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For
DR> that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
DR> They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
DR> Peace,
DR> David Ragland
Well, your sermonettes are shorter, and you actually
include a snippet from the person your are addressing, but
like George, I have yet to see you actually answer any
questions intelligently.
Goes with the territory, I expect.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 05 Feb 97 21:21:43
EID:65bb 2245aaa0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9d7fa
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f6bafe
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David Worrell said "native americans" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> A nit is the juvenile form of the louse (hence "nitwit" for a
DW> Yes - Ed cured my lack of education on that point. I knew such things
DW> existed. I just never knew that anyone had bothered naming them.
People with a genuine need in that department are more
highly motivated in that direction than you perhaps have
been: after all, it's handy to know what to ask for in the
drugstore.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Rece
|Date: 06 Feb 97 02:33:26
EID:1168 22461420
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9d7fb
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32f79bc9
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Sue Alexander said "Ask And Ye Shall Rece" to Richard Smith, adding:
RS> What should be a crime is receiving a diploma from Calvin
RS> U., as Jimson did.
SA> No, he did not. He only went a year from what I understand, then
SA> dropped out. He only "majored" in English.....
Judging by his prose, his "dropping out" _ought_ to have been at
the adamant insistance of the faculty.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 06 Feb 97 02:38:29
EID:8d94 224614c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9d7fc
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 17a0d1bf
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ed Mills said "HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE" to Don Martin, adding:
RH> Leave while you can, fool.
EM> Hey! Don't chase 'em off! There's supposed to be a fundy drought
EM> going on, you know. :)
DM> You mean, as a result of John (the Pied Piper of Hammy Loons)
DM> Jeannault's call to Real, True Christians to shake the dust of
DM> this place from their feet and leave us with no targets? Can't say
DM> as I've noticed much of a difference.
EM> Well, it seems like things have perked up quite a bit, from where
EM> I live. I wonder if people from different parts of the world aren't
EM> getting a little different cross-section of Holyschmoke.
Actually, I have been thinking about this lately: there seems to
be a pattern of fundy presence on HS. During the first week or so,
they post a couple of things a day, often to one other WOA that they
have singled out. The WOA typically replies, because the bullshit,
though an old, old song around here, is still irresistible. The
fundy doubles his output to respond to the responses during the
third week. Other WOAs notice, and start addressing their posts to
him. For weeks 4 and 5, the fundy is the Belle of the Ball here,
receiving more messages daily than even Schroeder can write. Then
the fundy, overloaded and unable to keep up, disappears. After a
few days, so do the messages to him. On a graph, the pattern would
go something like this:
40
|
|
35
| +
| +
30 +
| +
| * Fundy traffic +
25 + WOA traffic +
| +
M | +
E 20 + * * +
S | +* *
S | *+ *
A 15 *+ +
G | * *
E | * +
S 10 * + +
| * +
| * + *
5 * + +
| * * * + *
|*_____+_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____*_____|____+
Wks 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Some interesting questions arise: is there some "magic number"
that, once passed, means the fundy feels overwhelmed and leaves? Or
is it the point at which the WOA traffic exceeds the fundy traffic
that is the crucial moment? I have plotted this as 2.5 months, but I
suspect that the average fundy presence (always excluding, of
course, those that are permanent fixtures here) is perhaps closer to
6 weeks. Has anyone else noticed this pattern? Does anyone have a
stat program that can be applied to monitor this activity to
support or falsify the hypothesis and possibly refine it to identify
the crucial event in motivating fundy meltdown?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Taking liberties
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:50:43
EID:5865 22466e40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
David Ragland said "..." to Lynda Bustilloz, adding:
DR> I think nothing of the sort. Please don't jump to such conclusions
as
DR> you don't yet know nearly enough about me. :)
In another post, you asserted all sorts of things about my
mental state, yet I put it to you that you do not know diddly shit
about me. Why must Lynda play by a different set of rules?
Elsewhere, you say to Jan deBoer:
DR> If I am wrong, we will both die and do nothing more than become
DR> the maggot food you spoke of. If I am not, you will spend eternity
DR> knowing it. The choice is yours.
Pascal's Wager yet again! And you clowns wonder why you are so
easily debunked? Try for some originality. A thought would do.
Incidentally, have you come up with any evidence for your
imaginary Superfriend being anything other than a product of human
imagination? _That_ would be original.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying Examples
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:51:06
EID:94d3 22466e60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Ken Young said "Exemplifying examples" to Jan deBoer, adding:
Jd> Strange father - he turns his back on his children when he gives them
Jd> leukemia, or they get raped.
KY> People go through hard times, and in some cases, truly terrible times,
KY> but there is a reason for everything to be allowed. One thing is man
KY> has turned against God, and has decided they want to follow Satan
KY> instead, so God will let them have their way for awhile, and we see
KY> with the idseases, rapists, etc., where that has taken us..
So, let me get this straight: you are telling us that your
imaginary superfriend (for whom you have yet to provide any evidence
as being anything more than a product of human imagination) lets
little kids rot with disease or suffer rape because they, the little
kids suffering such stuff, have become followers of Satan (for whom
also you have yet to provide any evidence as being anything more
than a product of human imagination)? Their horrible fate is your
god's punishment for their disloyalty?
Or is it that they are entirely innocent, and your god is just
_using_ them to make a point to somebody else? He is saying, in
effect, "stop this Satanist crap, or I'll let yet another 9-year-old
altarboy get buttfucked by the entire bass section of the Mormon
Tabernackle Choir!"? I do not know which is the more sick: you or
your deistic imaginings.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Census and Sensibility
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:53:19
EID:2e23 22466ea0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Marilyn Burge said "Hypocritical people" to Don Martin,
adding:
MB> Generally speaking, statistics on church membership and the like
MB> are gotten from the churches themselves. That being the case,
MB> some denominations regard you as a member if you were baptized
MB> in that "faith" shortly after birth (Catholics come readily to
MB> mind in this regard). Other churches are much more apt to cull
MB> their membership rolls regularly.
To that end, I think it might be a very instructive
study for WOAs to organize and perform a census in their
various cities on the actual numbers of fannies on the pews
within a designated denomination. My suspicion is that,
exclusive of Chistmas and Easter, most churches average
7-10% of claimed membership in actual attendance. This
figure is probably smaller for Roman catholics, who tend to
regard everyone within the territory of the parish to
_belong_ in the church, and larger for Quakers, who have
that nasty streak of honesty to deal with.
MB> Also, the numbers get inflated in order to give the appearance
MB> of popularity by the denomination that is doing the reporting.
The sleazier the denomination, the greater the inflation
is my guess.
MB> I don't know how much such popularity inflation affects the
MB> real membership in the future, but it makes those who are
MB> members feel better, knowing that a sizable portion of the
MB> population agrees with the convoluted mindset that they
MB> themselves espouse.
Religion is, if nothing else, a "feel-good" business.
MB> For the above reasons (and many others) any numbers dealing
MB> For the above reasons (and many others) any numbers dealing
MB> with church attendance and/or membership are to be regarded
MB> with a VERY jaundiced eye.
With my sig line, am _I_ ready for 'em, or what?
Later you say to me:
DM> (I don't believe that thinking can be taught, but it _can_ be
DM> encouraged) in others.
MB>
MB> (I know I'm going to hear from a fundy on this one, but ONWARD!)
MB> I think you can teach somebody HOW to think; the trouble comes
MB> when you try to teach them WHAT to think.
I would generally disagree on the grounds that thinking
is a little like "obscenity": nobody can really define it
very well, but everybody supposes himself capable of
recognizing it when he sees some. I am pretty sure that
thinking requires information as a raw material, and it
involves putting something called "ideas" together in new
combinations, but beyond that vague construct I am unable to
go.
I can define English grammar with a great deal of
precision, and because I can clearly define it, I can teach
it with a pretty good sense of certainty. But people's minds
work in so many different ways, that I cannot feel so
certain about thinking.
Apart, of course, from a certainty that fundies mostly
don't, but I have their example here to draw upon for
confirmation.
And later still, you say:
MB> about. I believe the mean elevation of Minnesota is something like 50
MB> feet;
DM> ML>
ML> 63 feet, according to the USGS.
DM> Really! And when I first saw the Mississippi from its muddy
DM> marge in the State of the same name, I was impressed with the
DM> _speed_ of the thing--it was hauling ass. And it does this wih only
DM> 63 feet of head between its origin and the Gulf? _That_ is something
DM> to wonder at!
MB>
MB> That's the mean; the Mississippi may very well start at a higher
MB> elevation.
Er, Marilyn, why are rivers generally found at the
_bottoms_ of canyons?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Doorstep?
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:51:59
EID:8f5b 22466e60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59f
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Mark Kimes said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to David Ragland,
adding:
DR> I am not satisfied with what science alone has taught me or could
DR> ever teach me.
MK> Therefore, you play make-believe. Hardly sounds satisfying to me.
MK> Far from being too easily _un_satisfied, old bean, you are far too
MK> easily _satisfied_.
MK> Snake oil salesmen must camp at your doorstep.
That is a damned lie! They get the run of the house.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Superbowel Frolics
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:57:47
EID:912d 22466f20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e5a0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Katherine Wintersnight said "One of yours?" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> What I cannot understand is why the Superbowel producers
DM>dropped the bungee-jumping act from the halftime show just
DM>because one of the people in it got killed in rehearsal.
DM>Give 'em a chance, say I: if they could kill off another
DM>during the actual show, the fans would eat it up with a
DM>spoon.
DM> We would see reruns of the event until we teetered into
DM>our graves.
KW> It wouldn't have been flashy enough.
Not even with sequined streamers on the costume? Wow! that's one
tough audience!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:59:30
EID:f0eb 22466f60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e5a1
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000866b0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
David Ragland said "Wonder Woman Comics win" to Fredric Rice,
adding:
FR> It's a supreme irony that there are people who still
FR> pretend to believe in the Christanic myths when there
FR> are so many superior ones to choose from.
DR> I believe it is _you_ who pretends with regards to
DR> "atheism." I would not think the average human so
DR> imprudent as to actually not see what is so obvious.
In this country, the "average human" probably has a
reading ability of rather less than sixth grade and
generally believes what it is told by its equally benighted
parents. It does not know very much, but it tends to be
awfully certain about what it _does_ know. That would
explain the easy jump from ignorance to "prudence" and the
conviction that unevidenced beings and events are "obvious."
And ours is a developed country. The average reading
rate in the Third World is a good deal lower. A great many
even more ridiculous things are "obvious" to them.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Feeling a little Horse?
|Date: 06 Feb 97 14:00:11
EID:5751 22467000
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e5a2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Martin Goldberg said "Personal jabs" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> minutes from my house: lately, I prefer approaching foreign
DM> languages via the palate. A patissier is about to join the
DM> practice--watch this waistline for a growth spurt!
MG> Good. Hopefully they will open one of the Paris style
MG> horse butchers for your introduction to the degustatory
MG> ways of the Franocphile.
Hell, we were having horse at home before I reached
puberty: today the stuff might be called heart-smart it is
so low fat. But good (I harbor no sentimental concerns for
"My Friend Flikka").
I have no trouble eating quadropeds and have even
managed a few gastropods in galic butter. So far, though, no
hex or greater pods have journeyed down my gullet with my
knowledge (though I do not doubt a few have snuck in--just
breathing in Alaska was sometimes enough for your daily
protein intake on mosquitos alone).
Bon appetit!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Flexible Dating.
|Date: 06 Feb 97 16:26:33
EID:9408 22468340
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f8b
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2f802412
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Rick Mcfarlane said "Flexible Dating." to ROBERT CURRY,
adding:
RM> He said MODERN you fucking goofball. Get your head out
RM> of your ass for once, will you?
RC> You said that?
RM> Doesn't really sound like me, eh? It wasn't.
RM> (I'll admit that I FELT like saying something like it more than once
, but, if there is one thing HolySmoke has taught me, it's self control.)
I would think that if HolySmoke has anythnig to teach
us, it is how much better one feels for letting it all out .
. .
RM> Like I said in my note to Laurie, I'm honoured to be put in the same
RM> group as Popper and Darrow - people into whose mouths Laurie has tried
RM> to put his own words.
I certainly would not want him putting any words in _my_
mouth: one does not know where his nasty little hands have
been.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 06 Feb 97 16:38:02
EID:6f6e 224684c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f8c
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f68d10
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Bored" to David Worrell,
adding:
P>> Well, don't worry.. I am here now.. You will never be bored
P>> again!
NS> Me too
DW> I doubt you'll be here any longer than "Patriot" will.
KY> Well then, he will be here a VERY long time.. Someone has to tell you
KY> people how it is! :) And in case anyone didn't notice, I am Patriot..
I _had_ noticed that you two were intellectual peers,
but I had not noticed that you two were the same person. Now
ask the assembled eyes whether anyone gives a rat's ass
_who_ the fuck you are.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Feb 97 16:44:54
EID:e62f 22468580
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f8d
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f6cdb0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Cracker Barrel boycott" to Alan Hess,
adding:
KY> what someone else said..
KY> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was
KY> never meant to be.
AH> Then your god messed up when he created homosexuality.
AH> A perfect being wouldn't screw up.
KY> That's right, a perfect being would not screw up.. Good thing that
He
KY> did not create homosexuality.. That is a creation from man..
How _do_ you deal with the increasing data that points
to a genetic component for homosexuality? If it becomes
patent that one is born with a sexual orientation just as
one is born with a given eye color, will you continue to
maintain that your imaginary superfriend did not create
homosexuality? (never mind that your stance flies in the
face of the theological position that your imaginary
superfriend is the creator of everything that is, but you
are welcome to your theologic heresies.)
Why is it that you fundies are so often obsessed by
homosexuality? I have seen you mention it in perhaps a dozen
posts. Most of us straight people really don't give much of
a damn _what_ other folk do with their dangly bits, so long
as they leave us out of activities we might find
distasteful. We end up, I suspect, not thinking very much
about homosexuality at all, until we reply to some fundy who
apparently cannot get it out of his tiny mind.
Have you talked to a therapist about this interest of
yours?
Later, you say to Richard Smith on this topic:
ky> replying to what someone else said..
ky> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle,
ky> that was never meant to be.
RS>
RS> Nice homophobe reaction . . .
KY> Wondered how long before we got to this one.. A "homophobe" implies
KY> that the person is afraid of gays.. SInce I cannot imagine why anyone
KY> would be, I obviously am not a "homophobe."
This is accurate so far as it goes, but there is a bit
more to the definition as it is used by psychologists: the
homophobe hates/fears gays because he hates/fears the
feminine characteristics within himself. You "I cannot
imagine why anyone would be" afraid of homosexuals because
you put a great deal of energy into limiting your
imagination in that direction. Still, you cannot stop
talking about queers, can you?
And letting your imaginary superfriend do the dirty work
of condemning them does not let you off the hook of that
condemnation.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Bacteria and Slime
|Date: 06 Feb 97 17:02:34
EID:4cfd 22468840
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f8e
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f6cfe2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Bacteria and Slime" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
KY> WHy Benny Hinn? He has nothing to do with it.. It is the power
KY> of God, not the power of Hinn..
MG> Then I dare you to cancel your health insurance and
MG> count on the power of your god.
KY> God heals, but God is not to be tested.
No testes for him, then!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Feb 97 17:04:27
EID:94d3 22468880
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f8f
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f6d18a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Exemplifying examples" to Dave Hamilton,
adding:
KY> People go through hard times, and in some cases,
KY> truly terrible times,
KY> but there is a reason for everything to be allowed.
DH> And the reason that children suffer horrible deaths from
DH> cancer is?
KY> Do I know everything? No, I am not God.. Perhaps you should ask
KY> Him that..
KY> But perhaps, we are to fault.. We have made this world what it
KY> currently is, diseases and all..
Who _was_ the inventor of smallpox? What guy created
anthrax? I presume you have the lab notes of the one who
developed AIDS?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 06 Feb 97 17:06:49
EID:ded6 224688c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f90
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f6d2ba
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Hypocritical people" to David Worrell,
adding:
DW> You really shouldn't rely on Rush Limbaugh for your "knowledge."
KY> I no longer listen to him much. He doesn't go nearly far enough..
KY> Besides, I do not believe anything I just hear, I need something to
KY> back it up with, generally..
Yeah, right. Elsewhere in this packet, you refer to an
"Ark Discovered" story on 20-20. And backing up this
monument to modern scholarship is . . . . . ?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Apologies to Regulars
|Date: 06 Feb 97 17:34:48
EID:9f4f 22468c40
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f91
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f6a9b6
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jim Goodman said "Wonder Woman Comics win" to Mark Kimes,
adding:
DR>You have run to arms of atheism in order to avoid submitting
DR>to the will of the Almighty.
MK>How silly of you. It is precisely the lack of any evidence
MK>that any "Almighty"
MK>[sic] exists that has led to my own atheism.
JG> Well, then, how 'bout "Partly mighty" rather than "Al-mighty?"
JG> :)
JG> Out of curiosity, what kind of evidence would have to exist
JG> for it to constitute evidence for the existence of an
JG> "Almighty" variety of a God?
Personally, I have said many times that I would welcome ANY
evidence of the existence of any god, and I have even specified
indirect evidence that would be quite convincing, not only to
me, but (I suspect) to all the wicked atheists here: the residue
of the Noachan Flood. It avoids the problem of "how can there be
physical evidence for a spiritual being?" by focussing on one
instance in which that spiritual being supposedly interacted
physically with the physical world in a way that would have
produced distinctive physical consequences. While we have seen
fundies claim that their god is so deceitful as to cover his
tracks, I, for one, would presume that such a dishonest being is
unworthy of being taken seriously, much less of worship.
I do not concern myself here with the issue of the needed
two additional hydrospheres of water and its drainage out of
earth's gravity well, nor with the necessary consequences
resulting therefrom by operation of the laws of physics: the
atmospheric pressure resulting from a "vapor canopy" that would
prevent the existence of life as we know it, the heat release
from the condensation of that much water that would be
sufficient to melt lead anywhere in the atmosphere, etc. are
very serious impediments to the veracity of the story, but most,
if not all, fundies lack sufficient knowledge of physics to be
able to follow the reasoning. It only confuses them, leading
them to drag out yet another version of the Deceitful God, who,
they claim, sets the laws of physics aside his wonders to
perform. Instead, I simply take the Genesis account at its face
value, looking at the effects that much water falling at that
rate would inescapably have upon the face of the earth.
We have an account of a global flood directly produced by
Yahweh in the Bible. Given the fact that we have information,
presumably from a source inspired by omniscience, of the extent
of the flood ("over the highest mountains," or roughly 30,000
feet above present sea level) and of the time of the rain (40
days and 40 nights = 40 24-hour days = 960 hours), it is easy to
calculate the rate of the rainfall: 30,000/960 = 31.25 feet of
water fell per hour. That is little better than six inches of
rainfall per minute.
I would think that "gullywasher" fails to do this rate
justice, inasmuch as that term is applied to rainfalls of one or
two inches per hour. Suffice it to say that this rain would wash
away pretty much any particles smaller than Volkswagens and
deposit all of this in a single stratum covering the low-lying
areas world-wide.
We know from geology that floods leave evidence in direct
proportion to their size (this stratum would, for instance, be
far thicker than any other ever created and would cover all the
area on earth with its thickness varying in inverse proportion
to altitude), and we further know from the mechanics of
disposition of suspended solids in fluids the type and extent of
the stratum that would be laid down by a global flood. Those
larger particles would lie at the bottom of the stratum, with
progressively smaller bits covering them. In addition to that,
the contents of that stratum, the remains of ALL creatures
mingled together under optimal conditions for fossilization
(heavy sedimentation at great depths, with the finest materials
thickly sealing the top) are known: in short, a universal unique
event would produce a universal unique outcome--a stratum like
no other in the geologic column.
Such a stratum would furnish perfectly good indirect
evidence for the existence of this Yahweh person, just as
tracings on a photographic plate tell us of subatomic particles
or the behavior of objects in space tells us of the existence of
enormous gravitational forces only explicable by the presence of
a black hole.
So show us this stratum. That would be evidence.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 06 Feb 97 17:48:30
EID:dbee 22468e00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa1f92
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 91401d3b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Sally Springett said "Hypocritical people" to Ken Young,
adding:
KY> Brine a fundy is about behavior, not religion, correct? Well,
KY> do you believe what is printed in history books, for example?
KY> If you agree with what they say, then you are a fundy, by
KY> sticking to what they say.
SS> It is one thing to think that a history book is probably accurate
SS> when it says that the Revolutionary War began in 1776, particularly
SS> when the book was written by a person who has spent a good part of
SS> his/her life on research into the matter.
SS> It is quite another to accept as literally true a book, written by
SS> dozens of people over a millennium, that is replete with provable
SS> falsehood and contradiction.
And when you accept such a book as _inerrantly_ true,
you're a fundy.
(I should like to hear from any WOAs here who, beyond
believing what is printed in history books, regard the
things as inerrant. Don't crowd up, now . . . .)
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 06 Feb 97 19:37:28
EID:331b 22469ca0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa46e3
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f95934
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Jan deBoer said "A toast to dracula" to Ken Young,
adding:
KY> WHat's so ddifficult? We are all sinners,
Jd> Speak for yuorself, but I'm not. I've lived an exemplary life. Sure,
I
Jd> masturbated when I was a kid, but who doesn't? Hell, I'll bet I've
Jd> been a nicer guy than even Jesus himself. He didn't give my niece a
Jd> typewriter for college.
A TYPEwriter!??!! How quaint. A non-sinner would have
ponied up a second-hand 286 with dot matrix printer for the
same money.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: What webs we weave.
|Date: 06 Feb 97 19:44:24
EID:0215 22469d80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fa46e4
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f669cc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Richard Smith said "What webs we weave." to Don Martin,
adding:
RS> Actual time or subjective time? We took about a week to
RS> move across town, between other obligations.
When it comes to moving, subjective time _is_ real time.
We are _still_ moving in, feels like.
RS> last time, six years ago) flooding, etc. Not only was it a
RS> nightmare to try to find rental vans, but there were other
RS> things to contend with. The phone line for the BBS was
RS> postphoned until the end of the month, not with our
RS> approval, because of emergency conditions, etc.
RS> I'm only glad we moved because I plan on dying here.
The rain keeps up, that may be sooner than you'd
planned. A family on Bainbridge Island in Washington made
the news here in the effete East for getting wiped out by a
mudslide: back in the 50s already we knew that building a
house on the beach, beneath a bank composed mostly of clay,
was asking for a quick launch into Puget Sound, but that old
wisdom has apparently died out since my departure. The guy's
neighborhood was houses shoulder to shoulder without a
break: his was simply picked off by a fairly _narrow_
mudslide. The neighbors are probably pissing their
collective pants these days. Hope your place is high and
dry--telephone lines _can_ wait, unpleasant though it may be
to do without HS.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 07 Feb 97 00:51:09
EID:17b7 22470660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb2df7
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f914ba
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Ken Young said "Ha!" to David Worrell, adding:
KY> And do you really know anything at all about the Michigan Militia?
KY> No? I didn't think so..
DW> Other than the fact that they're pathetic little
DW> whiners who wouldn't understand the Constitution even
DW> if Barney sang it to them? No, and I honestly see no
DW> need.
KY> Just tell me one thing in the Constitution that they are wrong about.
KY> And how does one criticize something they don't understand?
One does it out of ignorance. It seems to be very popular these
days.
KY> But then, people criticize Christianity too, without understanding
KY> it..
Even worse for Christianity are those who "defend" it, too,
without understanding it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 07 Feb 97 01:03:29
EID:5784 22470860
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32fb2df8
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org d8b5c75e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Norman Solomon said "Bored" to David Worrell, adding:
NS> Why do you get so worked up about people who follow in your view, a
NS> non existant God?
Because the idiot cretins delude children, burn books, attempt
to impose theologically-based laws upon the rest of us, and own
(and use) shotguns. It is not their nonexistent imaginary
superfriend that is of any concern, but they, themselves.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 08 Feb 97 16:07:02
EID:b3a0 224880e0
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fa83d0
MSGID: 1:229/622 32fca595
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS> Surely this isn't your first experience with Jimson the
RS> Baldface Liar?
Oh, no. Every once in a while I overcome my gag reflex and post
something to him. Curiously, I find myself inexplicably reading
his effluent. I don't understand it, but it's the same attraction
that makes me look when the news broadcaster says, "Warning: the
scenes that you are about to see contain graphic images that
may be offensive and upsetting."
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 08 Feb 97 16:12:24
EID:c7b7 22488180
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fa871a
MSGID: 1:229/622 32fca777
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> Do the laws of the bible equal the laws of the land?
js>> Obviously not or we wouldn't be murdering helpless
js>> infants by the millions annually...
RS> If Jimson is speaking about abortion here, has anyone
RS> pointed out that we don't murder infants?
RS> I supply for his edification (since he's loath to crack a
RS> book on his own) the definitions of LIFE and INFANT from the
RS> American Heritage Dictionary:
I doubt he will bother. I've never seen anything that suggests
he's higher on the moral and ethical scale than Appleton. I find
myself reminded of dreadfully cold winter childhood days when
we would find a frozen piece of horseshit on the sidewalk, left
by the trusty animal that pulled the plough. It was simply
impossible, once it was determined that there was no steam rising
from it (hence it really *was* frozen), to resist kicking it
smartly to see just how far it would fly.
It was at once compelling and revulsive.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 08 Feb 97 16:22:00
EID:7976 224882c0
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fa8b18
MSGID: 1:229/622 32fca8d3
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Richard Smith to Jan Deboer:
RS> See how androitly he sidesteps the issue? I bet you
RS> were only suspecting that Jimson was possessed . . . now you
RS> know . . .
If that's the best mind and body that some evil principality
can locate to possess then folks in the exorcist business had
better start considering their options.
Location, location, location.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Love me tender
|Date: 08 Feb 97 08:08:29
EID:5cd4 22484100
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 b9bb5cc0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f640a6
On (03 Feb 97) Jan deBoer babbled to Ken Young...
Jd> On 01 Feb 97 03:32:58 Ken Young wrote to Jan deBoer...
KY> Accept it or not, Christianity is about love..
Jd> That's what Jim Bakker was demonstrating, and they threw him
Jd> in jail for it!
KY> Funny, I thought it had a little something to do with taxes..
Jd> Yes, love can be taxing........
He thinks it had to do with TAXES??!! It had to do with MASSIVE
FRAUD, fer crissake! Is this KY-Jelly guy informed about
ANYTHING???!
... "Jesus was a nice guy...it's the fuckup followers I have a problem with."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 08 Feb 97 09:21:17
EID:6b9f 22484aa0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c1ba4bb6
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f640ac
On (03 Feb 97) Jan deBoer babbled to Marilyn Burge...
Jd> Hello Marilyn,
Jd> And they seem to be quite prevalent in the inhuman race. I
Jd> gather you've run into a few yourself, or have you read up on
Jd> the topic? Read a good book on the Sociopathic personality
Jd> recently by a Canadian author, a prison psychologist [the
Jd> name escapes me at the moment...]. I wanted to read it, from
Jd> having to contend with a sociopath, unavoidably, through a
Jd> family relationship.
The book sounds like it might be _Without Conscience_ by Dr.
Robert D. Hare. I've got it, but I haven't yet read it.
MB
... If Jesus were born today, He'd surely refuse to become a Christian
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: witch burnings
|Date: 08 Feb 97 09:25:36
EID:8da1 22484b20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7533a5b0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f64508
On (03 Feb 97) Judith Bandsma babbled to All...
JB> I have just been perusing a few days of Al Schroeder's
JB> personal online journal.
JB> I have also captured a part of it and will be taking it to my
JB> attorney for review. It seems that Al is taking situations he
JB> has been told about in this echo and in irc and publishing
JB> them for the world to see, without consent and without taking
JB> care that the person not named is not recognizable to others.
What's the URL? I'd like to see what that busybody has gotten
himself into this time.
... I have bursts of lady-like behavior; fortunately, they don't last.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: New brain cells produced
|Date: 06 Feb 97 07:36:31
EID:7c07 22463c80
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32fa96b6
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32f3afed
Hi Doug...
On 01 Feb 97 12:02:28, Doug Lee penned the following to All
re: New brain cells produced
DL> (NOTE: How long do you think it will take the creationists to turn it
DL> into "evolutionary science fiction"?? :> )
I don't think they will get the chance, myself... except for
Laurie.. B-})
DL> Saturday 1 February 1997
DL>
DL> Mark Lowey, Calgary Herald
DL>
DL> Calgary medical scientists have successfully made new brain cells in
a
DL> groundbreaking step toward repairing the human brain.
Damn... we're good!
John
... Evolution's not *just* a theory like creationism's not *just* a lie.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: RE: DYSLEXIA
|Date: 08 Feb 97 12:48:09
EID:8c9a 22486600
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 2 Feb 97 04:26pm, NORMAN SOLOMON wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
-=>> Quoting David Worrell to Norman Solomon <=-
NS> Hi David
NS>
NS>> Promise me this posting is not an example of the full depth of your
NS>> interlectual capacity :-^)
DW>> Only if you'll promise me that, in the future, you will spell
DW>> "intellectual" correctly when attempting to denigrate another's
DW>> intellect.
NS> Do you think there is a link then between spelling and intellect?
NS> As you had studied my "sig. file" so closely I assumed you would
NS> know what dyslexia was, sorry my mistake.
Dyslexia is transposing letters and numbers (i.e. seeing Becke and Bekce,
for
example). That excuse would be believable if you even came close to spelling
"intellect" right. As far as I'm concerned, David's right.
Becke
... Get thee behind me Satan. I was here first.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 285
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/IM 2.50
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 08 Feb 97 12:48:12
EID:600d 22486600
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 5 Feb 97 12:40am, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
BB>> All Christianity is manmade. And religion and dogma go hand in hand,
no
BB>> matter what belief system you're talking about. Pray tell, what exactly
is
BB>> "true Christianity"?
KY> No, no.. That is religion.. Christianity was divinely created.
Evidence for this ridiculous claim? You're saying God created Christianity?
KY> One can't have an unlegalistic form of Christianity?
What the hell is an "unlegalistic" form of Christianity?? That word isn't
in
my dictionary, and I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Babble
on, Kenny.
KY> True Christianity is when people are following Christ, which means they
KY> are following the Bible. If they do not believe the basic biblical
KY> principles, then they are not Christians. It is that simple.
Have you ever cut your hair? Or eaten pork?
BB>> successful programs to help
KY>> people get out of drugs and alchohol.. One of the most succesful
KY>> programs is Teen Challenge, which comes from the
KY>> Assmeblies Of God, a
KY>> Pentecostal denomination..
I've seen the Teen Challenge web site. Not only do they expell you from
the
program if you don't "accept Christ", but they read and censor all your
mail,
only allow contact with "preapproved" people, don't allow contact with family
until the participants are properly brainwashed. Sound a whole hell of a
lot
like a cult to me. Replace one addiction with another, if you will.
BB>> And non-theists do none of these things? I know of many
BB>> secular organizations
BB>> that do the SAME exact things you mentioned, for more altruistic reasons.
BB>> Churches have an ulterior motive--secular organizations
BB>> more often than not
BB>> do not. Let me guess. You're one of these kooks who
BB>> believe "Atheists do no
BB>> good works", right?
KY> Nope.. I never said that non-Christians do nothing good. You asked
KY> what good churches ever do, so I gave you some examples..
KY> So, what are the ulterior motives?
Easy. (And there _are_ quite a few ulterior motives to mention)
1. Christians think that by doing good things, they earn brownie points
with
God and a better position in Heaven.
2. Christians think if they "help" someone, that person should be obliged
to
sit through hours worth of proselythizing in return.
3. Christians will only help those who they think they have a snowball's
chance in Hell of converting.
More can be listed if you wish, but we can start with those three.
KY> And secular groups often do have their own agenda in mind..
Such as??
KY>> Besides all that, even if you don't believe, worship does do a lot
of
KY>> good for many peoples' spirits.. It uplifts them.
BB>> So does good sex. Your point?
KY> It uplifts them spiritually?
Yep. Good sex does wonders for one's spirit.
KY>> Now, if I may ask, what in particular, is bad about churches?
BB>> Where do I start? Churches advocate a herd-like mentality, repressed
BB>> individuality, overt religious dogma and partriachism.
KY> Not all of them.. Believe it or not, individuality is VERY important
KY> to me, and I really could not see myself in a legalistic church.
I notice you didn't disagree with the herd-like mentality, overt religious
dogma and patriarchism. I take it these are things you condone? And what
the
hell is a "legalistic" church??
BB>> Let us not forget the
BB>> 10 percent you'd tithe to these churches (Why does God need money?),
the
BB>> indoctrination of those who are too young to understand
BB>> and are forced to be
BB>> Christians by default. That's just the beginning. Should I go on?
KY> WHy does God need money? Well, to build more churches, get His word
KY> out, and things like that..
God needs this money?? If he's all powerful, why doesn't he create his own
money, or send it falling from the skies. (Note: Devil's advocate mode on)
Do
you really think God wants you to build huge churches to glorify him? What
about a small 10 member chuch that studies in someone's living room? Are
they
any less in his eyes because they don't have a fancy building? What about
if
a large group worshipped in a field?(Note: Devil's advocate mode off)
Don't forget the Tower of Babel.
As for getting his word out, I'm assuming you're talking about the good
old
US of A here...Show me one person, one area that doesn't have knowledge
of
God. Don't mistake not giving a shit for not being aware of it.
KY> Besides, it could be argued that all belongs to Him anyway..
MY money belongs to God?? I sure would love to see him try to collect (she
says, with baseball bat in hand).
KY> Depends on your definition of "indoctrination." I would teach my kids
KY> my beliefs from the beginning, but would try to make sure they
KY> understood it was up to them.
Why not teach them nothing, and allow them to find Christianity on their
own
if they so wish. I'm not saying make your beliefs a secret, but don't shove
them into church as toddlers, don't fill their minds with all the mythical
stories.
My mother raised me Christian. Until the age of 9, I thought that pregnancy
was caused "when God wanted you to be so" and you had no way to plan, just
had to accept it when it happened. That lie came to an end when I saw a
family planning commercial on TV, and asked my mom "If God gives us babies,
how can you plan it?" Needless to say my mom topped that off with more lies,
and I didn't find out the truth until I was 11 years old, the first time
I
got my period. My mom finally figured out that she had to talk about "sex"
when I started freaking out because I was bleeding "down there". I thought
God was punishing me, and that I was dying.
Mind you, I had been sexually molested for a period of 1 1/2 years before
all
this, and had, at this point, made no connection between sex and pregnancy.
Is that the kind of upbringing you want your children to have?
KY> If they were forced to be Christians, there would be many more
KY> Christians out there.
Strange logic you have there, Ken. How did you come up with that?
KY> SUre, go on as much as you want. I want to know why some have turned
KY> against the church.
Where would you like me to start? I'll go into as much detail as you wish
*exactly* why I left Christianity behind.
Becke
... Those darn Unitarians burned a question mark on my lawn!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 285
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/IM 2.50
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 08 Feb 97 12:48:17
EID:443f 22486600
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 5 Feb 97 03:44am, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
KY>> women maybe slightly more, but not by much..
KY>> Now, I will say that some are likely just trying
KY>> to show off, but with
KY>> many, it is a very real experience..
BB>> It is considered showing off to speak in gibberish? I
BB>> never saw the point of
BB>> it, myself.
KY> Those that do it for show, are just trying to get to be the center of
KY> attention.
I never understood the point of it, myself. If God wants to talk to us,
why
doesn't he do it in English?? I always thought those people speaking in
tongues looked really stupid, myself...And never understood why people sat
patiently by for 15 mintues while this person was yelling something that
made
no sense at all at the top of their lungs.
KY> Still, it is a very real thing.. I, myself, have only spoken in tounges
KY> twice,though, and that was at home both times..
And you beleive this to mean God was talking to you directly?
KY>> Hmm.. Oh well.. The churches I have been in, is
KY>> seemed men did do the
KY>> majority of interpretations, but I would say maybe by 75%.
BB>> What denomination are you, if I may ask?
KY> I am Pentecostal, and for years went to Assemblies of God churches.
KY> Now I am in the CHurch of God, headquarted in Cleveland TN.
I've been to all 3 types of churches (Chestnut Ass. of God, New Life World
Outreach Ministries, Mulberry St. Church of God, etc). Funny how the numbers
differ. Perhaps you are seeing only what you want to see, rather than how
it
really is?
KY>> the Bible were just tools of God, and they were
KY>> not the ones that came
KY>> up with the stuff.. The same way, one when speaking in church should
KY>> be really saying whatever God lies on their heart.
BB>> And how do you know this comes from God, and not just the psyche?
KY> I just felt the annointing of God on the speaker..
So you're empathic now? Evidence, please.
BB>> Men and women only have physical differences. Mentally, everything
is
BB>> interchangable. What "traits" do you consider to belong
BB>> to each of the sexes?
KY> Well, the simple answer would be masculinity and femininit .
KY> Although, that could be exceptions I suppose.
What exactly is "masculinity"? What is "femininity"? Define these terms,
please.
KY>> SO, men are no more masculine than women? Women are no more feminine
KY>> than men? Generally, one in each sex, has certain roles to play.
BB>> Hon, I've seen some women that were more butch than a lot of the bikers
I
BB>> know. And, in the same respect, I've known men that
BB>> were such queens that *I*
BB>> seemed like a man in comparison. Like I said,
BB>> everything is interchangable.
BB>> The only ones setting gender limitations are people such as yourself.
KY> Exceptions.. Plus, anyone can train themselves subconsciously to become
KY> something that isn't in their nature, IMO..
Those exceptions debunk your assertion, plain and simple. Are you saying
that
I'm "going against my nature" because I'm not a subservient Stepford wife?
KY>> Territory? I am not exactly the typical guy, so I
BB>> would actually love
KY>> to be the one raising the kids at home, and all of that stuff. But
I
KY>> know that usually, that is just not how it is meant to be.
BB>> So why don't you? Who is stopping you from staying home
BB>> and raising the kids?
KY> Uh, try I haven't found Miss Right yet.. Of course as it is looking
KY> now, I may be able to work at home..
So, even before you have a mate, you're sentencing yourself to something
you
don't want to do, just because the Bible tells you to do it?
Don't come crying to me when you're dissatisfied with your life.
KY> Not only that, but if possible, I plan on home schooling my kids.
Oh, great...that's all we need. More Christian home-schooled kids. I assume
you're going to leave out the important subjects (dontcha know that science
is EVIL, evil I tell ya!)
BB>> thought of as a man's job,
KY>> better than a man, she is welcome to it, in my
KY>> book.. However, that is
KY>> a very rare situation.
BB>> I've seen it done many times over.
KY> I have not seen to much at all.. But like I said there are exceptions.
KY> Last governor race in PA, for example, I voted for the woman, Peg
KY> Luksik, running..
I thought you lived in TN? And what the hell does that have to do with
the
conversation? Last Presidential race I voted for Browne/Jorgenson. Your
point?
KY>> More than anything else, because you have the free will to believe
or
KY>> not..
BB>> How is it free will if you go to hell if you don't believe?
KY> Because you have the freedom to go to hell if you so choose.
And if I have the freedom to go to hell, I have the freedom to NOT go to
hell
if I so choose. Everything is not black and white. There are more than 2
choices, regardless if you recognize them or not.
KY>> "shoving beliefs down one's throat." I have found, that often when
KY>> religion is forced, the kids turn against it..
KY>> I will tell them how I feel, and what I believe,
KY>> but the decision will
KY>> still be theirs.
BB>> Will you expose them to other belief systems as well?
BB>> Will you let them know
BB>> that there is no pressure to believe, that irregardless of whatever
choice
BB>> they make you'll still love and respect them?
KY> I will not stop them from being exposed to other beliefs. I will be
KY> honest, it would bother me a lot if they decided not to be a Christian,
KY> but (what I would think was) wrong choices does not mean I love them
KY> any less.
Sure..I believe you..(not!). My mother says the same thing. But, every now
and then, I get a lecture...saying, "I'm only preaching to you because I
love
you and I'm concerned for your eternal soul". Part of love is acceptance.
Until she accepts me for exactly who I am, she *doesn't* love me
unconditionally. Same could be said of what you said above.
KY> So, how about you? Would you love and respect your kids just as much
KY> if they decided to become Christians?
Damn straight I would. Especially knowing that I raised them with the freedom
to make their own choices in life, without my influence. However, I do plan
to instill a "question everything" value into my children, so I assure you,
they wouldn't take Christianity at face value. I'd hope they'd have at least
enough sense to weed out the bad and the questionable, and retain the good
without believing in inerrancy, esp. when what's in front of them directly
contradicts each other.
BB>>> out of life. And who is
BB>>> to determine what is "right"? "Right" is a very
BB>>> subjective term. What I
BB>>> consider right may be something you consider abhorent.
KY>> Keeping that in mind, then you cannot really say
KY>> that Christianity is
KY>> definitely "wrong."
BB>> Christianity is harmful in EVERY case.
KY> What happened to,"right is a subjective term?" Just because you
KY> disagree with it, does not mean it is harmful..
Any fantasy can be harmful if taken too far. Christianity included.
KY>> May I ask what type of church, denomination wise this was in?
BB>> Church of Christ.
KY> Hmm.. I take it this wasn't one of the churches where you heard
KY> speaking in tounges? That is not exactly a Pentecostal denomination..
Your point? It's still a Christian church.
KY>> Well, just because one is accepted, doesn't mean anything about his
KY>> character. They may have thought highly of him,
KY>> but I pretty sure they
KY>> didn't know what he was doing, either.
BB>> They knew exactly what he was doing. And when it all came out, it was
my
BB>> mother and I and my sister that got thrown out of the
BB>> church, not him. Simply
BB>> because my mother went against the CoC unspoken rule
BB>> "Thou shalt not divorce
BB>> thy husband". (Needless to say, he was beating her as well)
KY> I am sorry, but don't judge Christianity as a whole, based on one
KY> church.. What you decribe is inexcuseable, and I can completely
KY> understand you turning fro the church, with this as an experience, but
KY> not all Christians or even churches are like that..
I judge Christianity on it's merits, combined with experiences I've had
in at
least a dozen different churches. It's the same everywhere I went, every
denomination I've tried. It's not for me, plain and simple. Can you accept
that?
Becke
... Get a taste of religion.....Lick a witch!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 285
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/IM 2.50
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: the Alignment List. part
|Date: 08 Feb 97 13:34:41
EID:9a5e 22486c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc80f1
-> On 06 Feb 97 09:58:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>*Ken Young,
DC> swinging on a
DC> limb someplace.
DC>Thing is, he's out on that limb doing his best to cut it off
DC>while standing near the leaves. I just may loan him my chainsaw.
KW> Why bother, when he's doing a fine job by gnawing away with his
KW> teeth?
I figured it would be good for a laugh as he fired it up and tried
to use the wrong end on the branch.
... "Musta been one helluva sandstorm during the flood." Marty Leipzig
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 08 Feb 97 13:45:33
EID:68a9 22486da0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc837d
-> On 06 Feb 97 18:08:00, David Ragland got back to Mark Kimes
MK>that you were going really fast because Godzilla was chasing you.
DR> Not hardly. Come on. You can be more insulting than that can't you.
DR> Hint: Talk to Don Creppa. He'll show ya how to cuss like a real man.
Unlike you who has the vocabulary of a 2nd grader when it comes
to insults. Then again, that is far above your level of metal
acuity. As it stands, your insults are like a little child
that shits his pants.
Just how many more years is it before you get potty trained?
... David Ragland's cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:12:20
EID:77a9 22487180
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc89c4
-> On 05 Feb 97 12:06:00, Roger Hunter got back to Dan Ceppa
RH> I hope not, too. Al is intelligent enough to make a good
RH> atheist, if we can just get his blinders off long enough
RH> for the light to penetrate.
They are signs of some cracks in them. However, we now have
to get him from covering them with his hands!
DC> some one to slap you with reality than it is to slap yourself
DC> with it.
RH> I hope you are right. It works that way with suicide attempts.
Careful, or a note _will_ be sent to your family!
... Fringe benefit of being a god: getting to call the Pope "boy".
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:13:58
EID:00f9 224871a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc8a26
-> On 06 Feb 97 18:34:00, David Ragland got back to Mark Kimes
MK>Coupled with the fact that you think we should believe you. Plus your
MK>description of TV "mysteries explained" shows as "convincing." Plus
the
MK>comments to which the above was in reply.
DR> Please work on them thar sentences. You got this ol' fundy all
DR> confused. ;)
_Dick and Jane_ books get you confused.
... Homo-fundiculi: A virus on the hard-drive of life.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:23:42
EID:ae0c 224872e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc8c6e
-> On 06 Feb 97 09:29:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa
RV> Small, very, very small fluctation. So small likely we will never
RV> be able to measure it.
RV> Just a toss out, to piss off a, ' God Dan '.
RV> Time for another beer......and butchering of the english language.
Your doing a far worse job of the later. ;)
... Truth will set you free, but first it'll piss you off!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:30:50
EID:6222 224873c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc8e1a
-> On 06 Feb 97 09:15:00, David Ragland got back to David Worrell
DR> Yes fascists should be confronted. Christians should be confronted
DR> too. But the difference in the two defines how to confront both. To
DR> elucidate, we mean _you_ no harm so... Why mix apples and oranges.
Because they are part and parcel to each other.
DR> Are you saying that you should attack everything you either don't agree
DR> with or don't understand? That's what _we_ are accused of!
You fail to realize that the bulk of the people that you say
are attacking you have gone the religious route at one time
in their lives. As it stands, you are running out of material
that hasn't been debunked many times over.
DR> Well glory be! This boy can call people names and advise them of
DR> irrelevant echo history simultaneously. Man, I wish I were so smart
DR> and talented!
You can wish all you want. Your god will not provide you
with either. And, it's obvious he never did before.
DR> Why am I here? Glad you asked, smarty...
DR> Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and
DR> preach the gospel to every creature.
When was the last time you preached to penguins? Better hurry
up, as they are very needy of you services.
... Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies 2/2
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:34:27
EID:0f76 22487440
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc8ef3
-> On 06 Feb 97 10:18:00, David Ragland got back to Richard Smith
RS> Absolute lie. Got any evidence to show that you're not a
RS> liar, Dav?
DR> Yes. The fact that it is actually you are lying before God <=== who?
DR> and everyone else proves I am not a liar.
Yes you are. You haven't provided a god to lie to.
RS> Another lie, Dav. Got any evidence for this?
DR> Look in the mirror, say that you don't believe in God, and look to see
DR> if your pupils dialate. They will... thus proving that you are a
Sorry, chuckles. It didn't work. You try saying that there isn't
a god and you'll probably keel over dead from the voodoo curse
made by the religion that you have been indoctrinated into.
... The ministry: a dating service for pedophiles.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:36:12
EID:6222 22487480
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc8f5c
-> On 06 Feb 97 17:42:00, David Ragland got back to Paul Boyer
PB> Atheism is a NON-religion -- it requires no faith --
DR> Sure it does. It requires _faith_ to contend that _NO_ God
DR> exists. Any belief that cannot be scientifically proven requires faith
How much _faith_ do you require to know that Santa Claus
doesn't exist?
... David Ragland is not a complete idiotÄÄseveral parts are missing.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:39:27
EID:2a99 224874e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc901f
-> On 06 Feb 97 09:58:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> DC> KW> That miter have have something to do with it, for I do enjoy
the
DC> DC> DC> KW> drill. -!-
DC> DC> DC>What rout'er you taking? Will it be a long boring one? (Punning
DC> DC> DC>is a vise of mine, tool.)
DC> DC> KW> No, I prefer to lathe a solid foundation.
DC> DC>After much editing of the long >>>>>,'s,
DC> DC>can I say that I'd like to router root you? Or, at least get you
DC> DC>to reply to these things with less ">>>>>>" 's? :)
DC> KW> Still trying to figure an angle? Don't worry, you'll fit it to
a tee,
DC> KW> square. I'll let you just plum bob along.
DC>I fig you'd get the hang of this. I've been dangling it out.
DC>And, yes it's my belt, not a thread! (Have to stay one up
DC>on you!)
KW> By this date I should have. Sorry to have kept you in suspense. And
KW> I know you'll spin a yarn if you have too.
I'd rather weave it into a long tail.
... "Pascal's Wager: Accepting god as Fire Insurance" Kevin Heckman
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: O'God Dan ,,,Now You,,,
|Date: 08 Feb 97 14:47:55
EID:a627 224875e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fc921b
-> On 06 Feb 97 09:23:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>electical patterns of the brain can be measured. Further,
RV> Not sure if you can use electrical patterns as a sign of
RV> intellect, how data is store or intersect to other parts of
That's true. After all, the fundys seem to somehow manage
to type messages.
RV> The brain when young can do work arounds in just about any
RV> areas, assumeing physical damage. See language for best one.
Did you read the post about regenerating brain cells?
RV> But once the hormones kick in then it would appear
RV> that some areas are lock into a certain pattern, a work around can
Like forgetting everything to endanger your your life to impress
a girl? (Never happened! )
RV> That was fun,now i better shut up before i really get in shit.
You may type like a fundy, and even a Glodberg, but that won't
get you into trouble. After all (parting shot loaded and
ready to fire, Cpt!) you occasionally(!) make sense!
Talk to you again soon!
... Syntax is all the money collected at the church from sinners.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Grace, Bride of Christ [1]
|Date: 03 Feb 97 11:57:27
EID:c5aa 22435f20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32f6299b
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f2fffe
Ken Young said "Grace, Bride of Christ
[1]" to Jan deBoer,
adding:
KY> It might be.. Good thing we are living in the time of the grace
KY> of Christ.
Jd> Grace of Christ......you mean he's got a girlfriend
Jd> named Grace? I thought he was gay....are you sure this
Jd> isn't just a cover-up, like Michael Jackson's marriage?
KY> You people sure like to connect God with sexuality,
KY> don't you? Odd omnipotent being fetish of some sort? :)
For your part, you seem to prefer connecting it with
extortion and child abuse (_such_ a good example to bring
the wicked into line!): of the two, which do you suppose
your imaginary superfriend would prefer?
Elsewhere, you say to Fred Rice:
FR> factors into their pretentions, huh? I've yet to see
FR> True Christian Jim Bakkker even _ask_ for forgiveness
FR> from the hundreds of thousands of ignorant gullible
FR> sheep he swindled of millions of dollars. But he (like
FR> all other Christanic fundies) have no difficulty
FR> pretending their gods forgive them.
KY> Well, I have.. On talk shows, as well as in a magazine
KY> or two.. In fact, he has changed so much, not even sure
KY> if you would still call him a "fundie."
I don't know whether I ever did call him a fundy.
Cretinous little asshole, perhaps, or slimy turd certainly,
but I never paid much attention to his theology, only his
character.
KY> I do find it odd, though, that we attack people that
KY> have others send them money, when they are ministers,
KY> but don't seem to mind it when the swindlers are
KY> psychics, those preaching get rich schemes, etc.
Psychics do the same thing you guys do--claim a
connection with the "spiritual" world that lies beyond
evidence; they, therefore, enjoy the same indulgence as
preachers. And when you say _preaching_ get rich quick
schemes, it would appear that you mean those who claim god's
help for investments. Certainly, a few Robert Vescos and
Charles Keatings _do_ get charged with swindling from time
to time.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Grace, Bride of Christ
|Date: 06 Feb 97 13:51:32
EID:9de0 22466e60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32f9e59d
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
[This is a repost of a message that has been languishing on
my regular BBS all week, with no traffic moving in or out.
If it ultimately results in a dupe, sorry!]
Ken Young said "Grace, Bride of Christ to Jan deBoer,
adding:
KY> It might be.. Good thing we are living in the time of the grace
KY> of Christ.
Jd> Grace of Christ......you mean he's got a girlfriend
Jd> named Grace? I thought he was gay....are you sure this
Jd> isn't just a cover-up, like Michael Jackson's marriage?
KY> You people sure like to connect God with sexuality,
KY> don't you? Odd omnipotent being fetish of some sort? :)
For your part, you seem to prefer connecting it with
extortion and child abuse (_such_ a good example to bring
the wicked into line!): of the two, which do you suppose
your imaginary superfriend would prefer?
Elsewhere, you say to Fred Rice:
FR> factors into their pretentions, huh? I've yet to see
FR> True Christian Jim Bakkker even _ask_ for forgiveness
FR> from the hundreds of thousands of ignorant gullible
FR> sheep he swindled of millions of dollars. But he (like
FR> all other Christanic fundies) have no difficulty
FR> pretending their gods forgive them.
KY> Well, I have.. On talk shows, as well as in a magazine
KY> or two.. In fact, he has changed so much, not even sure
KY> if you would still call him a "fundie."
I don't know whether I ever did call him a fundy.
Cretinous little asshole, perhaps, or slimy turd certainly,
but I never paid much attention to his theology, only his
character.
KY> I do find it odd, though, that we attack people that
KY> have others send them money, when they are ministers,
KY> but don't seem to mind it when the swindlers are
KY> psychics, those preaching get rich schemes, etc.
Psychics do the same thing you guys do--claim a
connection with the "spiritual" world that lies beyond
evidence; they, therefore, enjoy the same indulgence as
preachers. And when you say _preaching_ get rich quick
schemes, it would appear that you mean those who claim god's
help for investments. Certainly, a few Robert Vescos and
Charles Keatings _do_ get charged with swindling from time
to time.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 07 Feb 97 13:45:58
EID:550d 22476da0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb3216
-> On 05 Feb 97 06:45:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to David Worrell
DW> KW> It's a shame you can't be built like a Twinkie,
DW>Who says I'm not? :)
KW> You're a tender sponge cake??!!??!!
Do you use sponge cats to make them?
... The blessing received is well worth the money.--Jim Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 07 Feb 97 13:53:08
EID:598c 22476ea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb33c4
-> On 01 Feb 97 10:44:48, Paul Davis got back to Dan Ceppa
GtP>> you will never have the opportunity to find out first hand exactly
GtP>> what it is that makes me "divine".
PD>> You look like him?
DC> Your god has big tits?
PD> I was refering to "Divine" the drag artist/singer/actor who died a few
PD> years back.
I was referring to Gwenny the Pooh, Goddess of the Big Tits.
... Cthulhu loves you...on a Ritz cracker.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: CheckMate
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:17:13
EID:cb82 22477220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb3969
-> On 06 Feb 97 13:40:40, Marilyn Burge got back to The Avatar
TA> DR>> Days when people in general did not go about talking
TA> DR>> like drunken sailors with Tourette's syndrome.
MB> How dare he malign people with Tourette's Syndrome! Of all the
MB> nerve!
Shouldn't that be: "... he, SHIT, malign people, FUCK, with
Tourette's, GOD DAMNED!, Syndrome"?
I see your, BASTARD, meds are working! ;)
Now, don't forget to be like "the days women and kids were
innocent" in your reply.
... What can be said about him that hasn't been said about hemorrhoids?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:20:58
EID:0260 22477280
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb3a4a
-> On 06 Feb 97 16:29:29, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> ES&D, Hector!
MK> Are you suggesting that I o.d. on Al's posts?
I could never be so cruel.
DC> I do trust you have made payments to your insurance company
MK> Holysmoke requires no-fault keyboard insurance.
Just where in Styx's Echo Rules does it say that? After all,
all it really says is that this is the Religion Deflate Echo.
... Clowns to the left of me, jokers to my right, here I am...
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:24:57
EID:3381 22477300
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb3b39
-> On 04 Feb 97 13:03:00, Judith Bandsma got back to David Worrell
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can you think of
KY> lately, that occurred in the name of Christianity?
DW> blacks were beaten (sometimes to death) just 30 years ago in the South
JB> Two people were just convicted here in Charleston of 'lynching'. They
JB> tied a black 11 year old to a tree, beat him with a belt, shot off a
JB> shotgun next to him and threatened him with death.
JB> They were trying to scare the 'devil' out of him. (They were white)
They should be sentenced to be tied to a cross and have it
lit on fire.
... Tagline Deleted: Nothing funny about this shit.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:27:16
EID:95b5 22477360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb3bc4
-> On 04 Feb 97 13:03:00, Judith Bandsma got back to David Worrell
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can you think of
KY> lately, that occurred in the name of Christianity?
JB> Two people were just convicted here in Charleston of 'lynching'. They
JB> tied a black 11 year old to a tree, beat him with a belt, shot off a
JB> shotgun next to him and threatened him with death.
JB> They were trying to scare the 'devil' out of him. (They were white)
Can you say, "debunked", Ken?
... People who claim GOD is on their side are dangerous as hell.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 14:58:19
EID:756f 22477740
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb430b
-> On 02 Feb 97 07:26:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> "Poor taste"? Seems like this fundy needs a bit of seasoning.
JB> Maybe he'd have thought it had better taste if I'd spelled it
JB> 'phuque'?
For some reason, 'dine on excrement' seems to be nastier that
'eat shit'. C'es que ce'?
... "There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny." - H. Solo
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Feb 97 15:00:25
EID:388f 22477800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb4389
-> On 06 Feb 97 12:30:00, Ken Young got back to Sally Springett
KY> Provable falsehood and contradiction? Care to share an example?
KY> ANd do you need to research, when God tells you what to write? If God
KY> doesn't know the truth, I do not know who would..
By your 'logic', no one.
Explain the contratictions that your 'perfect word of god'
makes in Genesis alone.
... If you understand the bible, how can you believe in it?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Board no more.
|Date: 07 Feb 97 20:54:58
EID:d8e3 2247a6c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb96a2
-> On 02 Feb 97 02:43:00, Marty Leipzig got back to All
ML> gone belly up (Brian Shreve's 'A Little Corner in Time');
ML> with zero, zip, zilch warning.
That sounds just a bit familiar. Now you know why I was
starting a list!
ML> Track Hound and Debate Gallery) have also gone tits-up,
ML> so I'm forced to harass good, ol' Steve Q.
ML> So blame him.
Hey! Steve!!! It's all your fault!
ML> time being, but probably on a bit more time-dialated
ML> schedule. Fear not, fundies, I'll get around to you all in
I'm not sure, but if you set up as a point, you should be
able to get the Boss to bring in any back-bone echo. I'n
fact, I think he has to carry certain ones.
If you need help getting set up as a point, let me know. I've
gotten a bit more experience with some programs that I didn't
have just a couple three months ago.
... "Be accurate now. Your words are being recorded for posterity.." PB
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Italian cheeseheads
|Date: 07 Feb 97 21:01:08
EID:26e5 2247a820
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb9814
-> On 02 Feb 97 12:00:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> The letter that Crystal received from the state only lists 3
JB> categories that are to be considered handicapped...paraplegic,
JB> quadraplegic and totally mentally incapacitated. The BLIND aren't even
JB> listed as handicapped. As I told Lynda, I hope the state remembers that
JB> when the first guy with a guide dog shows up to take his driver's test.
Or his golfing buddy.
The reference is to Tom Sullivan and the movie about his life
called, _If You Can See What I Hear_.
It would be nice if he could be contacted and reprise his
role for the State DMV. If not, perhaps there is someone
else in your area that would be willing to do it.
... Don't question authority - it hasn't a clue!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 07 Feb 97 21:04:01
EID:2ca3 2247a880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb98c1
-> On 05 Feb 97 19:31:56, Ken Young got back to Fredric Rice
FR> history books for you which might help you escape that
FR> willful ignorance?
KY> Are you sure it is me that is ignorant? I am a hisotry of buff of
KY> sorts, especially when it comes to the founding of America..
Your slip is showing.
Just who were the Buffs and just what did they have to do
with the founding of America?
... Protect children from a faith worse than death; no bible in schools.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 07 Feb 97 21:08:49
EID:2ca3 2247a900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb99e1
-> On 05 Feb 97 19:40:48, Ken Young got back to Becke Boyer
BB> All Christianity is manmade. And religion and dogma go hand in hand,
no
KY> No, no.. That is religion.. Christianity was divinely created.
The dictionary disagrees with you:
Chrisłtiłanłiłty
noun
: religion derived from the teachings of Jesus
Christ
KY> they are following the Bible. If they do not believe the basic
KY> biblical principles, then they are not Christians. It is that simple.
Just how good was that last ham sandwich you had?
... "I'm not aware of the 'no worldwide flood theory'.": Andrew Masten
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 07 Feb 97 21:12:06
EID:4f4b 2247a980
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fb9aa6
-> On 06 Feb 97 12:42:46, Ken Young got back to Robert Curry
RC> 1/3rd when making claims about how many people in the world are Xians.
KY> WHat's this? The majority?!? Where do you come up with this stuff,
KY> anyway? I believe the majority of people with Judeo Christian beliefs
KY> consider themselves Protestants.
Then they are Protestants and are not true xians.
... "Lies, damned lies, & the xians that abuse statistics."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 08 Feb 97 01:15:43
EID:d683 224809e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbd3bf
-> On 02 Feb 97 10:41:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> And, do be wary of chocolate pies offered by harpies!
JB> How about web space for Holysmoker with a product?
I'm sure it's a tangled web you weave...
JB> Seriously, http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com is up and open for business.
JB> Oh! I forgot. You don't have access to look at it. :(
And, avery nasty one, too!
... STAAL.SYS corrupted, lobotomise? (Y/N) Redundancy error encountered!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Zee Knows.
|Date: 08 Feb 97 01:23:07
EID:39bd 22480ae0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbd57b
-> On 02 Feb 97 02:44:00, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Cepps
=====> ^
What are you doing? Taking lessons from Appletoon in how to
sneak posts through?
-> Re: Zee Knows.
I deZider to answer anyway.
DC> Try this one instead: Zero: "Zeno's phobia."
ML>
ML> R. Nothing, PhD and Zeke Zip, MD...Zeno's paradox.
Two fundys: Zeno's nothing.
... 20th Rule of Creationism: Insist that science ignores your proof
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Bifurcated gentle farts On 04 Feb 97 16:59:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa
> AS> Actually, it says if we say we are "without sin" the truth is not
in
> AS> us. I think the Bible here is talking about habitual sinners...i.e.,
DC>Ergo, those with sin can have truth. Thus, again by your definition,
RV> Your forgetting that Al, also preachs to the sheep. That
Yes, they need to be "comforted", as they have a dispensation
about being sinful!
DC>At least you are starting to notice the illogic of your religion.
DC>That's a beginning.
RV> But when will Al finally tell the sheep the truth. Isn't that
RV> a better question ?
If he starts noticing and admitting to the illogic of it
before he gets fully fed up with it and drops out, we will
all be better off.
... Censorship: The only real four-lettered word.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Bill Wolff: silly guy!
|Date: 08 Feb 97 01:48:49
EID:1b5b 22480e00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbdb81
-> On 01 Feb 97 06:42:08, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> MG> atheist all along and that we had him all wrong. He's been busted
so
DC> MG> many times in the past few months that he looks like Madonna's
pussy.
DC> That's so disgusting...but so aptly stated!
RS> Would 'Gutted Ewok' be a better euphemism next time?
Nah, those things are cute, especially when they shake their
spears at you.
It's Madonna that's disgusting.
... Is oral sex with a female bishop a voyage to the bottom of the See?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 08 Feb 97 01:52:19
EID:1c4a 22480e80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbdc53
-> On 03 Feb 97 10:06:00, Norman Solomon got back to David Worrell
NS> Why do you get so worked up about people who follow in your view, a
NS> non existant God?
Provide evidence that your god exists and you can discuss it. ITM,
it's "his" followers that are causing the problems.
... Gilgamesh: A better written myth than Noah's Flood
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Christian's secret weakn
|Date: 08 Feb 97 01:54:22
EID:344b 22480ec0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbdcce
-> On 03 Feb 97 02:36:14, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
RS> rather than reading and replying to damn near every message like
RS> Al B does...
RS> We'd be able to have an upload of thousands of replies, each at
RS> least 20 paragraphs long :)
Too late. That's already happened!
... Damn it, I can't stand rude motherfuckers!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 08 Feb 97 02:09:32
EID:af44 22481120
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbe05c
-> On 03 Feb 97 14:28:06, Martin Goldberg got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Actually, those are his first and middle names. His last
DC> name is really Jelly.
MG> Then his mother should have named him "Grape".
Yes, but that was her name maiden name. She married a
guy by the name of "Fish".
MG> recieving nets these days.
Another net mail off to you tonight...
... Toss another deity on the barbie
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 08 Feb 97 02:12:17
EID:33bb 22481180
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbe101
-> On 04 Feb 97 13:28:53, Paul Davis got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Care to buy a snapshot of invisible alien spacecraft? There's only
a
PD> nor a non-believer. I have no idea if god exists or not. All the (lack
PD> of) evidence seems to point to his non-existence I agree, but I always
PD> have this nagging doubt in my mind that it isn't the whole picture when
PD> we state something like that.
Perhaps it goes back to how you were raised, not that your
parents did anything wrong. However, when was the first time
you were in church?
... Plastic explosives will be appropriate when truth and logic fail.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 08 Feb 97 02:17:10
EID:6c94 22481220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbe226
-> On 05 Feb 97 08:53:32, Rod Swift got back to Lynda Bustilloz
RS> Hellion status has been granted to (should they wish to accept
RS> it):
RS> Al Schroeder (because he'll feel left out, and if I don't
RS> he'll tell my family :)
Coward!
RS> The duties of a hellion are defined in your dictionary:
RS> hellion (n): a rough or rowdy person; troublemaker.
Who, me? I'm a god and don't have to accept. However, it's
a nice offer and your generosity will be rewarded, especially
if you send many small unmarked bills.
... I am Ho Chi Minh of Borg...prepare to be beaucouped.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Isaiah 53:3 / Luke 13-18
|Date: 08 Feb 97 02:22:04
EID:764b 224812c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbe34c
-> On 05 Feb 97 07:21:44, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> -> On 19 Jan 97 11:33:00, Leonard Bernier got back to All
DC> LB> PROPHECY: - The Messish will be rejected by His own people.
DC> What's a "Messish", you meshugannah?
RS> ---------------
RS> Oy vey, do you think he will understand already?
Doubtful. He probably believes that the bible was always
written in English. As it is, he rarely responds. Which
does make him look like the spambot that he is.
... (Hitler was) an individual of great courage... -- Pat Buchanan, 1977
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sa
|Date: 08 Feb 97 03:04:31
EID:b7d5 22481880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32fbed3f
-> On 05 Feb 97 16:58:04, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> To be honest, none of my Godesses have big tits. After
DC> all, more than a mouth full is a waste.
RS> Well, there is the view as well . . . though I would tend to
RS> enjoy most those who have enough to fit in a champagne
RS> glass, myself.
That's about average for me. It's funny, though, as it's
not the breast that attract me but the eyes, though I do
have my lapses!
DC> I've ever gone out with because of her body. And, yes, it
DC> was a mistake!
DC> Triple-D on the chest, and F- in the brain cavity.
RS> Blood supply going to the wrong front orbs, apparently.
It _couldn't_ flow anywhere else!
... "Beer: You can't own it, you only rent it." Archie Bunker
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:02:21
EID:c9c1 22476040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32fb1a08
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f96ccc
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Feb 97 00:31, Ken Young wrote to Fredric Rice:
KY> came here in part to escape religious tyranny. Nowhere will you find
KY> one of them saying that they were trying to escape Christian tyranny.
Were they trying to escape Muslim tyranny? Hindu tyranny? Jewish tyranny?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:03:38
EID:da57 22476060
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32fb1a2f
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f96d98
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Feb 97 00:35, Ken Young wrote to Jan deBoer:
KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were a
KY> lot better.
Which time period, exactly, are you referring to?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:09:48
EID:7078 22476120
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32fb1bf5
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32fa5e66
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Feb 97 17:42, Ken Young wrote to Robert Curry:
RC>> So you consider the overwhelming MAJORITY of Christians to be
RC>> somewhat "iffy." Looks like you need to adjust those fractions
RC>> again. You know what I'm talking about -- the fraction you
RC>> changed from 2/3rds to 1/3rd when making claims about how many
RC>> people in the world are Xians.
KY> WHat's this? The majority?!? Where do you come up with this stuff,
KY> anyway? I believe the majority of people with Judeo Christian beliefs
KY> consider themselves Protestants.
Do you enjoy being so provincial? While the ratio of Protestants to Catholics
might be high in the US and parts of Europe, I'd suggest you take a look
at other parts of the world. Our neighbor to the south would be a good place
to start.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 07 Feb 97 12:11:40
EID:04e9 22476160
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32fb1c33
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32fa5fe8
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Feb 97 17:49, Ken Young wrote to Martin Goldberg:
DG>> 1. God created humanity, and desires to have fellowship with us
MG>> Here is where you lose. Right here on point one.
MG>> Problem is, you forgot to offer your evidence that god
MG>> exists. Do you have any. Even the smallest scrap of
MG>> non biblical evidence would be appreciated.
KY> Want evidence? You are alive, aren't you?
Yes, we are. We are alive because Vishnu created us.
See? Two can play that silly assed game. Now where's your evidence?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:20:48
EID:2d3c 22490280
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32fd1883
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32fb1a2f
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Veneris dies February 07 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Ken Young:
KY>> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were a
KY>> lot better.
DW> Which time period, exactly, are you referring to?
There's a great Doctor Who story called "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" that
has the number of these kinds of assholes. Their so-called "golden age"
never existed, so it's pretty hard to return to it. :-/
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Technology
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:26:45
EID:5c27 22495b56
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65eb
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 74b5392a
PID: FM 2.02
DW> I don't consider *simple* tool use (whether it be pointy sticks
DW> as spears by humans, or bent twigs by monkeys as termite
DW> gathering tools) as technology.
jjh> Ah... this touches on something I've been pondering lately...
jjh> Just what is "technology" ?
jjh> Seems to me, the word has been grossly overused in the last
jjh> few years. We've got everything from lawn-sprinkler technology,
jjh> "FidoNet Technology" (this one always struck me as odd),
jjh> food service technology...
I would say that technology -- such as FidoNet technology -- is the collection
of tools and the proceedures developed for the use of those tools. Cooking
technology, aviation technology, navagation technology... All the collection
of tools and the development of proceedures for implimenting those tools.
~*~ And then I slug him for touching me. I don't allow ANYONE to touch
me. Maybe he can heal my bed-wetting problem at a distance? [grin]
- David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:35:40
EID:11b4 22495c74
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65ec
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 74caf5bb
PID: FM 2.02
Jd> Worked with a JW who used to make sure to be noticed
Jd> reading his copies of AWAKE! (really broke me up when we
Jd> were on night shift!) during coffee breaks.
Catching up on his master's latest programming changes.
jjh> I can remember working at one place where the resident Jehoover
jjh> used to take over an entire end of one of the tables in the
jjh> breakroom every morning. He carried a whole briefcase full of
jjh> materials (and he was a lift driver in a warehouse, a trade
jjh> that doesn't normally count briefcases as one of it's working
jjh> tools). He'd open four or five books at once, arrange papers
jjh> and with pen in hand he would "study".
"Study," huh? It sounds to me like he wanted to either show everyone just
how "pious" he was or show everybody just how ignorant he was.
Or perhaps he was told that people would complain and he was fishing for
an excuse to sue the company.
~*~ You've just blown your only chance at salvation. See you in Hell.
- John Silvester
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Al the babbling bullshitter
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:38:31
EID:2862 22495ccf
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65ed
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 74cf3e22
PID: FM 2.02
JB> Yeah, Al's that stupid. Don't you remember that one of his
JB> biggest complaints about me was that I offered the LOGS
JB> (public ones) as well as his email to anyone who wanted
JB> them?
jjh> Did ANYONE want them?
I would say, "Yes!" I've been thinking seriously about collecting the fundamentalist
rants that come in through Internet and putting together a "freethought"
booklet. Al's rantings would be a good chapter -- and if the fucker wants
to pretend they're "coptright protected" after broadcasting them across
the world, he can fucking sue me.
jjh> Four more years! - Live with it!
Isn't it like less than 2 more years now? }:-}
~*~ But the fact that the disciples all saw and ate and
touched Jesus is important. - Al Schroeder
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: babbling bullshitter
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:39:24
EID:4af7 22495cec
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65ee
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 74cf3e22
PID: FM 2.02
JB> Yeah, Al's that stupid. Don't you remember that one of his
JB> biggest complaints about me was that I offered the LOGS
JB> (public ones) as well as his email to anyone who wanted
JB> them?
I'll take whatever logs you have. Let me know a date and time you'll be
on undernet and we'll do a file transfer.
~*~ Love you? I don't even like you. - Jesus
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Sam Ferguson
|Sub: Jesus Raised????? 1/
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:41:27
EID:3328 22495d2d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65ef
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32f755f8
PID: FM 2.02
> With respect to the physical resurrection of the Christian
> Savior, it may be observed that, aside from. the physical
> impossibility of such an occurrence, the account, as reported to
> us by his four "inspired" Gospel biographers, are so palpably at
> variance with each other, so entirely contradictory in their
Not to mention most of the gods and goddesses around the time were killed
by the people they were supposed to "save" and then many of those "returned
from the dead." The Jesus myth is far from unique.
~*~ Why don't you just hang a sign around your neck that says "STUPID"?
- Styx Allum
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win every time
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:46:38
EID:cd23 22495dd3
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f0
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2b49250e
PID: FM 2.02
> with: Fred Rice
DR> You have run to arms of atheism in order to avoid submitting
DR> to the will of the Almighty.
Gee. Imagine how hard Star Goat must be laughing right now.
rc> Fess up, David -- you've been using pepper again, haven't you?
I'll bet the guy denies salt, too. I would _love_ to use my new wood carving
tools to "correct" this blasphemy.
By the way... I'm changing my tune. I've noticed that Bloom County comics
are _much_ more non-contradictory and more historically accurate than Wonder
Woman comics and the Christian mythologies.
~*~ The 'baby' doesn't exist in Christanity. It was a myth
designed to justify the bath water. - Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Ken Y.: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:50:19
EID:6119 22495e49
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2b492510
PID: FM 2.02
KY> Maybe if we came back to God, crops would do better..
rc> No one could possibly be this stupid! LOL!
This one could be. He doubtless trembles in fear at the thunder and lightening
as well. He might also be willing to "sacrifice" little girls to his gods
to appease them as well.
~*~ As far as "making the world a better place..." we don't do that here.
- Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:53:09
EID:ba9c 22495ea4
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f2
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2ba22234
PID: FM 2.02
RC> Do you need to be able to harness fire in order to use a spear?
RV> Nope. Fire does work good to harden a wood spear point though.
rc> Indeed, the use and control of fire was a
rc> spectacular advance for early human technology.
But then so was first learning to throw our own shit at each other.
~*~ Jesus wouldn't last long in HolySmoke. - Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Al's excuse for raped girls
|Date: 09 Feb 97 11:57:27
EID:a177 22495f2d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f3
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2ba22235
PID: FM 2.02
AS> The girl who was not raped grows up to enjoy putting red-shot
AS> branding irons on people.
RV> Here Al maybe is trying to explain to the world, why priest
RV> rape the young. It's for their beterment.
rc> According to Al, rape is for the betterment of the
rc> victims and for the betterment of society as a whole.
I've actually heard this sentiment repeatedly during my youth. Getting
raped and beaten up, cut, being in accidents, robbed... they all make us
"better people" keeping more in line with the will of the gods and the "plans"
the gods have for us all later in life.
And just ignore the thousands of catatonic rape victims vegitating in asylums
around the world. It's all for their own good, the will of the gods and
all that. And the boy-rapig priest? 'Makes him a better man of gods as
well.
rc> In his knee-jerk defense of an indefensible dogma, he reveals just
rc> how fucked up religious belief can make a person. And remember,
rc> for every Al who is just all talk, there are religious believers
rc> around who would put such sick notions into ACTION.
Hostory proves that claim.
~*~ I am not a Christian, I am a Goatee. If I die, I just die, and if I
live, I live on a chair in front of my computer. :) - QUENTIN FAI
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Fire in HolySmoke! Everyone flee!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:04:53
EID:ed85 2249609a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f4
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2ba22237
PID: FM 2.02
DW> I'm not sure I can do that. I don't consider *simple* tool
DW> use (whether it be pointy sticks as spears by humans, or bent
DW> twigs by monkeys as termite gathering tools) as technology.
rc> So you call simple technologies by another name.
rc> How would you treat examples of *complex* technology that do not
rc> depend whatsoever on fire? Would you still say fire's a requirement?
Name a couple examples of complex technology which don't require the production
of heat of some kind -- fire, chemically-induced, or as a needed process.
I'll be Goat fucked if I can think of a one. As I pick some off the top
of my head at random I've been through the disease cures of molecular biology
to paper production and find fire in the process somewhere... heat to melt
metals for gears, fire to create steam to bend wood for wagon wheels, fire
to melt the plastics and create the molds for the injection process for
the electric tools sitting on my desk... If I create a panpipe to play
music on I'll have to heat a stone, metal rod, or hardwood stick to hollow-out
my reeds.
Man, fire is a monumental aspect of our way of life. If I'm living in Alaska
I would learn to eat fish raw, of course, and build without fire yet I'm
destined to a low technology way of life unless I can import fire-based
technologies into my way of life.
~*~ --- Atheists. I hope they rot in Hell. Hey they don't worry about it!
- Charles Baldo
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Belief in the gods
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:22:46
EID:8a1d 224962d7
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f5
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f6a84c
PID: FM 2.02
DR> If you are so set against the idea that any God exist
MK> Strawman. We are not "set against the idea that any God
MK> exist [sic]." You have yet to provide us with any reason
MK> to believe that your gods exist -- that's all.
jg> Even reasons to believe gods or any God exists would be
jg> a start. Could there be good reasons for either? Never
jg> mind answering the question whether "your gods" exist.
jg> Just start with gods or God generic.
There are many good reasons to believe that the Sun and the rivers and oceans
and such are all gods and goddesses; that the storms, winds, thunder and
lightening are gods and goddesses.
Natural forces can't be appeased. Gods and goddesses can. And natural
processes must be explained otherwise when the River Mother takes one's
baby away, the death is meaningless.
Of all the deity lunacy in the world, I think nature worship is the most
reasonable.
~*~ Newtonian gravity was rejected in place of Einstein's theory.
- Jesse Hornbacher
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Christian pope vs. science
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:25:13
EID:80fc 22496326
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f6
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 32f6ab5e
PID: FM 2.02
MG> that we know of. Lightening, thunder, earthquakes and all
MG> the rest are given simple natural explanations. but these
MG> guys still want to attribute it to a god.
MG> Some people never learn.
jg> Hmmm...Yes. Perhaps this is why they have retreated to the
jg> Ultimate Cause of the Big Bang type of argument.
At least we're making some progress. We're pushing the theistic lunatics
further back as scientific method puts "paid" to their accounts.
Even after the Christian pope stated that the Christian religion was no
longer interested in dictating what scientists do and find out, one of the
latest Christian popes told Stephen Hawking that scientists must not look
beyond the Big Bang -- another affront to the Christian gods, you see.
~*~ We tend to idealize tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves
infested with losers and nut cases. -- PATRICK HAYDEN
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Fiction, you nut!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:27:29
EID:113b 2249636e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f7
PID: FM 2.02
JF> Also, events such as the Amityville Horror are a little TOO real to
JF> deny his existence. If you recall, the family that was living there
JF> had to LEAVE because the house was quite literally going nuts.
That book is a work of fiction, you ignorant savage!
But then you death cultists have a history of working fictional entertainment
into your occultism. From Dante's Inferno to Omen to Lynda Blaire -- you
lunatics always work fictional entertainment pieces into your occult ignorance.
Fucking lunatic.
~*~ Pagans were Atheists. - Kim Kelley
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Darryl Gonzalez: Read the damn thing, nut!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:29:26
EID:c8a1 224963ad
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f8
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> Trying to excuse yourself for failing to adhear to what you claim
to
FR>> believe in. Do you cut your hair? Eat pork? Ever have a woman
FR>> teacher? Wear mixed fibres? Christanic death cultists are always
FR>> trying to rationalize-away why they disobey their deity constructs.
DG> Please show me where Christians are forbidden to cut their hair or
DG> eat pork. And yes, Paul did teach that men should not have women
Once again the death cultist requires an atheist to tell him what his own
paper idol says. Ironic, huh?
~*~ You pompous twit and I suppose you will _enlighten_
me as to the true meaning of TEAR A NEW ONE. - Richard Thorneycroft
How dare you?!
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Edward Tushar
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelieving
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:46:43
EID:e88f 224965d5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65f9
REPLY: 1:157/554.0 32f83f2b
PID: FM 2.02
> Just a little curious as to the nature of the bashing in here. Do
> people bash the others that believe in God or do you bash those that try
> to jam it down others throats? Now, I do believe in God, but that is
Are you talking about any god in particular? And what "bashing" are you
refering to? A great many occult superstitions and mythological beliefs
get corrected here, sure, yet I see little bashing as such.
~*~ Just as I figured. YOU are full of shit. You are a lying bastard.
- Michael Hardy (HolySmoke: Fundy Meltdown)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: The Avatar
|Sub: Psalm 69:4 / John 15:25
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:47:39
EID:6c9f 224965f3
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65fa
REPLY: 1:342/1.2 32f6f96e
PID: FM 2.02
LB> PRAISE GOD !
ta> ...For What?
Being non-existant.
~*~ ... It's a pillow, it's a pillow! [splat!] - Dan Ceppa
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Liar Appleton
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:49:39
EID:b712 22496633
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65fb
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f81bb6
PID: FM 2.02
> Laurie Appleton, the most brazen liar in Australia!
> Notice how she NOW says "Harry Truman", instead of "former President
> Harry Truman"!!!
> Notice how she NOW says "*if* I was with Harry Truman"!!
> Notice how EVEN IN THIS MESSAGE SHE TWISTS WHAT I SAID!
> "with former President Harry Truman a decade after he died" becomes:
> "if I was with Harry Truman when he died"
Typical Creationist methodology, actually.
> Anyone who enters into a discourse with this LIAR is wasting their time
> and bandwidth. He does set a fine example for "Creation Science"
> , though.
They've yet to come up with anything new over the last 30 years.
~*~ What did you expect in Hell? Altar boys and holy water??? - C. B.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: christian Ignorance
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:53:33
EID:a15d 224966b0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65fc
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32f81384
PID: FM 2.02
dw> As many of you are aware, Christians are often appallingly ignorant
of
dw> the teachings of their own bible. Earlier tonight, I ran across a damn
dw> funny example of this.
One lunatic in this forum asked me where in his mythologies there are dictates
against cutting one's hair and eating pork. It's like the Christian religion
had nothing to fear when the common person was able to start reading the
death cult mythologies for himself and herself... they have nothing to
fear because they _won't_ read the death cult mythologies themselves; they
want their masters to tell them what their paper idols say.
> Steiny: Do you now, or have you ever, own any dog collars,
> chains, whips, or spiked heels?
> Azir....only the ones I am saving for you
How typical.
~*~ Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning. - Jesse C. Jones
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 09 Feb 97 12:54:45
EID:e217 224966d6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 140b65fd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32f8dabe
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I get my kicks on Route 666 -- the Road of the Beast
sq> I need a better scan of that picture I have of me doing the
sq> "Hail Satan" gesture in front of a US 666 sign in Colorado. :)
Yep! And I need to get a photograph of myself standing along the "Ronald
Reagan Freeway" number 118.
~*~ No new life forms are appearing anywhere in the world that came from
other life forms (i.e. rabbits becoming dogs or whatever)
- Ray Speakmon
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Skeptic Tank Staff Members
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:13:12
EID:0561 224989a6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e820
PID: FM 2.02
To the Skeptic Tank Staff members who have volunteered your time, a thanks
and a note that the web pages have been updated and tested. Toward the
end of every web page your name and a brief entry on the subjects you've
adopted is offered; this in addition to the Staff section on the main page.
This gives readers a larger number of chances to provide feedback or ask
the questions I'm not able to handle. (The web pages are created automatically,
by the way, by a utility called MAKEHTML.EXE.)
Let me know if you want the description changed in any way... this is all
preliminary. Newspaper people have historically contacted me for information
on many subjects, from the Philip Kramer disappearance to the doings of
James "The Amazing" Randi so you may want to provide a detailed, accurate
description of what you're areas of expertiece are so that message forwarding
takes place as little as possible.
I'm still looking for professionals with Internet access... Dr. Goldberg,
Marty, and anyone else with particular training in a particular venue are
being actively solicited to provide research and answers to many of the
questions that come into the Skeptic Tank. A paleontologist and biologist
would be a great addition -- then I wouldn't have to guess about why evolution
favored divergence in human blood types... other things I can't answer
accurately (like why is dividing 0 by 0 not "allowed.")
If anyone is willing to handle questions which come in concerning human
psychology, evolution, Creationism, scientific method, humanism, magic,
Wicca and non-Christanic religions, and other related issues, please let
me know what areas you're willing to cover and I'll get the details of what
the task requires to you. You need a reliable Internet address and the
willingness to answer questions -- often from beligerant fundies yet most
often from people requesting research materials and background information.
Again, thanks damn much, Rod, David, David, and Robert. That'll take some
of the workload off -- I'll stick with providing the debunking research
materials for psychics, UFOs, ghosts et al.
The task of filling file requests has just dropped by about 90% now that
nearly all file requests have been automated. (And if anyone wants the
source code, request ESEND.ZIP.)
With your help together we can do many good things.
-=-
Robert Curry can answer
questions and provide background information on mathematics and probability
as well as certain areas of nuclear physics and contemporary Quantum
theories. Questions about cosmologies can also be answered.
David Rice will
be able to provide information on steller and costal navigation as well
as provide assistance with any aspect of international sailboating. He's
also a good source of information on cult organizations and individuals.
Since David also has extensive background in abortion clinic defense and
related issues, he is also a good contact for abortion information.
David Worrell
is the staff assistant which handles the illiterate, meandering, illogical
rants that fundamentalists like to spout -- while thinking they're making
a great deal of sense and "winning" one for their gods. If you
feel the need to launch into a disjointed, ignorant, superstitious rant,
David Worrell is specifically trained to help you.
Rod Swift handles all
the mail dealing with the sociological, political, and social science
areas of religions and their impact upon socities. If you like to pretend
that your religion has been responsible for keeping society together or,
if you like, you want to pretend that your religion has been a tool for
great good, Rod can help you learn the truth about your religion and how
it has actually affected socities.
NOTE: Rod, what about handleing the homophobic rants that come in? And
handeling the other gay related issues?
~*~ The use of pepper is the only blasphemy. - Robert Curry
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:26:48
EID:1c91 22498b58
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e821
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f821c6
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I was reading, by the way, a bunch of homosexual newsgroups
I saw you in one! You're cool outside this echo also.
FR> this evening and was surprised by the number of people who
FR> defend pedophile sex with consenting children. There were
FR> personal accounts by people who claim to have engaged in
FR> sex with adults when they were in their early teens yet I
FR> can't help but consider the claims to be lies designed to
FR> make people believe that there are willing children.
rs> There are a number of NAMBLA supporters who like posting
rs> to Usenet and putting their evil slant on things.
How many? I understand that there are quite a few NAMBLA members and even
more anonymous supporters of the ideology expressed yet I wonder what actual
numbers there are in the real world.
From an anthropological standpoint and an evolutional viewpoint I can see
the desire to reproduce with children at as young an age as possible as
a means of securing the greatest frequency of gene replication and agreeable
phenotype... such was once the case at any rate. Yet people are living
longer now and giving birth successfully at older ages; sex with and among
children is no longer needed to perpetuate the species.
rs> But NAMBLA types are desperate. They want to claim they are
rs> part of the gay community, but are shunned at every turn,
rs> denied access to pride parades, etc, etc.
More than that... They're talking about being child rights activists!
And yet if they actually were they would have joined one of the actual child
rights advocacy groups which already exist, not create their own.
rs> They've even tried stealth tactics to gain entry into the
rs> International Gay and Lesbian Association (IGLA) and the
rs> International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC),
rs> and two groups actually succeeded in gaining access to IGLA.
rs> IGLA has specific rules against groups that advocate sexual
rs> consent with children under the age of consent, and the two
rs> groups were disaffiliated and thrown out.
So they must keep trying everywhere else. And yet, they do discredit gay
human rights groups and homosexuals in general. They want to steal the
progress made by honest people, don't they?
rs> The unfortunate thing is that USENET is so open to publication as
rs> a forum for everyone, they crawl out of their gutters and into
rs> the newsgroups :(
Which is why they must be pounded upon every time they show themselves.
But more: They must be debunked rationally and logically, with the harm
done to children expressed over any other moral issue. Since morality is
whatever a society can afford at the time, it's useless as an argument to
ban something. Since children are most often not mature enough physically
and emotionally to cope with reproductive recreation that causes lasting
effects, that issue should be underscored the most, I opine.
Of course there is always exceptions. And often a great many of them.
It's difficult to say who will successfully mature sexually without mental
qualms later in life and who will not. Yet as a lawful society, we all
err on the side of caution (except that the so-called "Justice" system cares
for the rights of criminals more than the rights of their victims.)
rs> It makes me sick, because I've had to deal with this problem as
rs> moderator of soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi, and screams from
rs> the NAMBLA-brigade that they have a right to post to that support
rs> newsgroup :(
Post a message once a week denouncing the group and their criminal ideologies,
why not?
~*~ Rest asured that I __will__ hack and chop by way through as many
innocents as it takes to restore my religion's good name! - Fred Rice
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Christian terrorism in the news
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:28:07
EID:dfdc 22498b83
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e822
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f823a8
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I haven't read very much about the latest wave of Christian
FR> "pro-life" terrorist activities. Has these bombings and
FR> attempted murders simply not made it into the news or have
FR> I simply missed it all?
rs> Oh, and remember that the Holy Jimson Staalin has declared
rs> such things to not be "domestic Christian terrorism" :) :)
Oh of course... the final cop-out: Disclaim any involvement whatsoever...
while ignoring all of the cult's history totally.
~*~ Sagan say's there ain't no God but Sagan himself. -- Pat Parrinello
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: PROMISEFILTH (AAnews 239
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:30:01
EID:a339 22498bc0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e823
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f826b8
PID: FM 2.02
CB> it provided. In a somewhat enigmatic statement, PK spokesman Steve
CB> Chavis declared that "considering how competitive stadium operations
That's the evil monster who was interviewed by "Ken and Bob" on KFI one
day. His idea of oppressing women and driving them out of the workplace
and ending abortions was "being of service" to women. All for the little
woman's good, you see. She'll thank all the chavinistic bastards eventually,
you see.
Evil fuckers!
~*~ I had two margaritta's, and was eyeing the women like
a deer eyes oncoming headlights. - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:33:45
EID:5d99 22498c36
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e824
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f81cee
PID: FM 2.02
RS> Really? Name three. And name your source for this info; is
RS> it Militia Weekly or some other theme magazine? Or just
RS> your imaginatiion?
> According to the militias themselves.. I have heard of several Jewish
> militia members, and I met one Pagan one that used to be in a Florida
> militia. I also have been corresponding with another Pagan that is
> considering starting one. ANyone that believes the govt. has gone too
> far in America, can have a militia. It is for all walks of life..
You're a liar. Provide names and phone numbers, liar.
Well? Do it now, fucker. I know full well why you can't.
~*~ This echo is abomination. This echo is also filled with those who
will one day bend their knee to Jesus Christ and call him Lord, whether
they like it or not! And to think how much fun I'm gonna have fun
watching you say it. - Martin Riley
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: THX-1138 and Louis Wu
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:43:41
EID:29c2 22498d74
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1410e825
PID: FM 2.02
FR> people's emotional state. People were fined for
FR> ditching their medications and for engageing in
FR> unauthorized sex.
dr> The prosecuting attorney: "We can't have these
dr> EROTICS! mixing with normal people! It's SICKENING!
dr> Dis-GUST-ing!"
Next they'll want to fuck sheep!
FR> Of course dissent is "allowed" -- but only not
FR> r