God Damned Fundies!
|From: Jim Staal
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 10 Feb 97 13:18:39
EID:2504 224a6a40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 401010f9
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 a89b9a89
On (09 Feb 97) Marilyn Burge wrote to Dave Hamilton...
MB> On (05 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton babbled to Jim Staal...
DH> I personally don't accept claims that either home schooling
DH> or parochial schooling comes even close to matching the
DH> standards of the pathetic public systems. If you have any
DH> evidence to the contrary, I'll be happy to hear it.
MB> I can't speak for CRC schools, but my fundy friend went to
MB> Seventh- day Adventist schools through college. We then went on to
MB> graduate school and received a Ph.D., as did his three brothers.
MB> Three of them are attorneys who passed the bar exam on the first
MB> try, and three of them are electrical engineers who specialize in
MB> Intellectual Property law. The Fourth Ph.D. is in electrical
MB> engineering.
MB> Apparently, judging from this one isolated case, SDA schools are
MB> better than the average parochial school, if what you say is
MB> really true. I think that a disproportionate number of kids from
MB> Catholic schools also finish college, but I may be mistaken in
MB> that.
While SDA and Catholics are parochial schools, the CRC schools are not.
They are private Christian schools _not_ owned by the church, but rather
by the parents.
MB> I suspect part of the reason why kids who go to parochial schools
MB> do so well is that their parents have to make sacrifices in order
MB> for them to attend. Given that, they are more inclined to see to
MB> it that the kid buckles down and learns something to justify that
MB> added family expense. Also, the fact that the parents are willing
MB> to put out money for the kids' educations right from the get-go
MB> tells us that the parents place a high value on education, which
MB> is known to help kids in their attitude toward school and
MB> learning. That is also the suspected reason why people of oriental
MB> extraction do so much better in school that kids of european
MB> descent: the parents value education and insist the kid take
MB> school very, very seriously.
You have a very viable point here as well as a very astute observation.
MB> Of course, another reason why parochial school kids do so well is
MB> because the parochial school have the luxury of picking and
MB> choosing what kids will attend, which automatically eliminates
MB> those kids who would be a problem to them, such as kids who need
MB> special education, kids from gangs, etc.
Not so with our schools. If a parent agrees to a statement of faith and
has ability to provide the tuition, the student is in. They do have the
ability, of course, to expell those proving themselves incorrigeable
(as do the public schools)
... I want to take the Crash Course In Brain Surgery...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:19:00
EID:5992 22498260
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Roger Hunter <=-
LB> ROTFL!
LB> Well, you could try exposing me now, but one of us would likely just
LB> get arrested. ;)
Ooooo..... Can I have the video rights?
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!" - Bart Simpson
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:22:00
EID:6aab 224982c0
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Roger Hunter <=-
DM> Pay attention, Rog. No matter _what_ the topic, I
DM> reserve the right to make observations, the relevance of
DM> which may escape the humour-impaired.
Oh, is THAT what it was? If that's the case, then run down
to the School for Comedy and take a few remedial courses.
... There is intelligent life on Earth, but I'm just visiting.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:24:00
EID:9b96 22498300
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> I suspect it will be his willingness to post here.
DM> Nothing has ever diminshed that in the past. I suspect
DM> that in his case, denial simply means that he dances and
DM> types faster.
To my regret, my prediction was right on. He will no longer
be with us. But not for the reason I proposed.
... The OFFICIAL tagline of the 1996 Olympics!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:29:00
EID:00b7 224983a0
-=> Quoting Ronald Vass to Roger Hunter <=-
RV> You gave the example when the bridge between the brains is cut and how
RV> the right/left brain could no longer connect the picture with the
RV> name. So how come, if there was a soul connect the brain also.
RV> Ie: in other words, where is the soul ?
Exactly my point, and he acknowledged it as unanswerable. But
he backs away from the implication and looks for any concievable
way to rationalize it.
RV> It would help Al's case if he would ever get off his ass and give some
RV> real evidence for this god, soul,flying dead bodies, floating axe
RV> heads and shit like that. Shit, time and time again it been showen his
RV> book is incorrect, and time and time again, Al has been showen he is
How? There isn't any.
... "Mr. Worf, fire phasers at Ronald" ... Zzzzzap!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:34:00
EID:c975 22498440
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
MB> From his point of view, of course, you're right. From the point of
MB> view of this old Secular Humanist, I have a hard time seeing any
MB> compassion in it.
Yes. I argue from his position to show the illogic of it, the
paradoxes that are created.
MB> Where the rubber meets the road, Al does too, else he wouldn't be
MB> so quick to tell us that he abvolutely refuses to kill his
MB> children.
Yep. It takes an absolute fanatic to carry religion to its'
logical conclusion. And Al has never impressed me as such
a one. He talks the talk, but he'll only walk the walk so far.
If he'd only follow the truth, he'd come back to OUR fold!
... Tag line thievery ... On the next Geraldo!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:56:00
EID:07db 22498f00
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Ronald Vass <=-
MB> than serious flawed. How does using a larger percentage of the
MB> available lexicon make a person LESS educated and LESS articulate?
MB> It seems to me that the SMALLER the portion of our lexicon that is
MB> used, the SMALLER the vocabulary. Or is this whole thing just more
MB> of the fundythink that has so completely pervaded our culture?
Evidently you do not watch much daytime talk-show television.
Since retiring, I have had the misfortune to do so, and I can
assure you that the typical guest has about a 20 word vocabulary
and half of those are profane.
I will not mention that the typical guest is black, for PC sake.
Nor do you need to call me racist for merely reporting the facts.
... Blind people don't bungee jump; it scares the dog too much.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: HATEFUL BILL WOLF!
|Date: 10 Feb 97 17:13:57
EID:15ec 224a89a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff5755
-> On 08 Feb 97 03:51:01, Bill Wolff got back to Rod Swift
BW> Hardly... I'm a Saganist.
Not even close. You are a Lying Asshole at best.
... Next time, it will be 100 rounds of 30mm depleted uranium.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 10 Feb 97 17:29:52
EID:5b55 224a8ba0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff5b10
-> On 08 Feb 97 13:22:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Marty Leipzig
ML> KW> Ah, yes, the Airport Inn bar during a baptist convention...
ML> Where there's four Baptists, there's a always a fifth.
KW> Ugh! They hunt in packs.
Only if there are six of them.
... "Oh, bother", said Pooh as he set his laser designators on the church.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 20:48:15
EID:d0fa 224aa600
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff898f
-> On 08 Feb 97 23:16:40, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
KY>> I will answer that, as soon as you can prove to me that God has ever
KY>> given leukemia to anyone..
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything. Therefore,
MO> Yeah, but they're guilty. Of what though remains to be seen. I HAVE
MO> IT! I bet the kids would have grown up to atheists/free thinkers.
Which is the worst thing that can happen to any mythical god, for sure.
... "Stand beside her & guide through the night with a light from a bulb."
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Idiocy
|Date: 10 Feb 97 20:50:44
EID:b7ff 224aa640
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8a24
-> On 09 Feb 97 13:26:00, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Now, he's going to give you an English lesson.
> "lackluster" didn't you? I understand why. The word "droll" sounds
> like "dull". You may choose to reply, "I meant to say that!" in Pee
DC> Oddly amusing little fellow, isn't he.
MK> Quite whimsical little troll, for sure. :-)
Musical, no doubt too, as he attempts to whistle his way past
the graveyard.
... I had proof of the existence of God, but my cat ate it.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 10 Feb 97 20:53:52
EID:d9c1 224aa6a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8ae0
-> On 09 Feb 97 10:42:46, Marilyn Burge got back to Ken Young
MB> Anglicans/Episcopaleans, many of whom regard themselves as Reformed
MB> Catholics, the disparity in numbers is even larger.
Strange term there, Marilyn:
rełform
verb rełformed; rełformed; rełformłing; rełforms
: make or become better especially by
correcting bad habits
Especially as that's what I consider myself to be by being
an EX-Catholic!
... No way they (Biblical authors) were mere, common, "idiots." - Halfwitt
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 10 Feb 97 20:56:23
EID:109e 224aa700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8b77
-> On 09 Feb 97 01:35:34, David Worrell got back to Roger Hunter
KY>> to Heaven anyway.. But then, you probably would like open season
KY>> on Christians..
RH> Do I need a special license?
DW> Yep. And there's a bag limit, too. It's done with IQ points. You've
DW> got to keep track of the IQ of each Christian you kill. When the total
You realize, of course, if you score a Staal it has to add to
your current year's limit!
... "I am a Lump, 'cause Unky Staal says I am. Got pictures to prove it!"
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: ...
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:01:17
EID:5457 224aa820
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8c9d
-> On 08 Feb 97 05:00:25, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
DR> I long for the return of the days when there were women (and
DR> children for that matter) with an air of innocence about them.
MB> This is all just sour grapes on your part. You suddenly realize
MB> that you're not a Real True Man , because you respect and
That's not true, Marilyn, as I am a god. And, like most god's,
I expect my followers to carry out the Roto-rootering and keep
my hands clean. However, in his case, I really would not object
to baking him an extra-special pie! :)
MB> I don't think it's necessary. He's about to shit himself to
MB> death with no help from anybody.
He is doing a good job of stinking up the Echo, isn't he.
... "A negative endorsement from Satan beats a positive one from God." MB
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Goof^3
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:06:09
EID:5dd8 224aa8c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8dc1
-> On 04 Feb 97 12:21:17, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
PD> It seems that you're not prepared to wait for a response from me and
PD> would rather debate some imaginary viewpoint of where I'm coming from
DM> Naughty, naughty, God Dan! Not waiting for pearls of
DM> wisdom to drop from his keyboard before living your own
DM> life?
I'd only have to clean the mess up if I did. Do you know what
it costs the get that smell out of the carpets?
DM> No _wonder_ the teenage pregnancy rate is up in this
DM> country!
Don't look at me! I've been busy with picking on the poor fundys.
PD> what you will. I could care a lot more.
DM> But isn't it wonderful? You have his permission to
DM> proceed. What joy!
See, it worked out, just as planned by the Illuminati.
DM> Weren't you the one complaining about a shortage of
DM> fundies a bit ago?
I think it was Ed Mills. He even was going to re-join as
a fundy. Too bad he didn't do that after his 2 month
sojourn without a HS feed. Could have been interesting!
... My name is Inigo Montoya...You stole my tagline...Prepare to die. ___
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [2/2] He Come de Judge
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:13:48
EID:7294 224aa9a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff8f8c
-> On 25 Jan 97 10:33:00, Lynda Bustilloz got back to Al Schroeder
LB> Think about something Al. If the barbarians were responsible for the
LB> Dark Ages as nonchristians, WHY didn't they wipe out Christianity? Why
LB> WASN'T their form of worship the way it was for the next 1000 years?
Thank you for the treatise, Lynda. And especially your closing
point.
Duly saved!
... God's free gifts just plain cost too much.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:24:04
EID:2453 224aab00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ff91f4
-> On 02 Feb 97 09:08:01, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DM> Make me God of your school district, let me administer one of my
DC> OK, you're god!
DM> Shit. Do I have to get fundies now?
Only if you are a really, really bad god!
DM> no. One merely threatens to publish the paper where the students
DC> I like that idea. Now to see if I can get to a school board
DM> Be careful to stipulate up front that this exam is for the
DM> public record and that the results may be published unedited. The
Even better!
DM> hour). They may use dictionaries, thesauruses, etc., but not
DM> textbooks.
I would prefer to see none of those type of reference works
being allowed.
DM> teaches American history, say, give him things that anyone who
DM> presumes to know American history ought to be able to talk about off
DM> Notice, that there is no "right" answer to this. A number of
More like a debate. I remember a time I was in Jr high and
had to pick what was the decided "bad" side of the debate.
Though the team I was on protested, we had to do it anyway.
Yep, once we got into it and gathered the facts that we
needed, we won. The other team didn't do a bit of homework
on it and was soundly defeated.
DM> this sort of thing all the time. Surely a professional charged with
DM> the education of the young ought to be able to manage it.
What would you recommend for a more esoteric subject, like
mathematics? I can see good scenarious for the other sciences,
but I'm hard pressed for one on that.
... "Bother," said Pooh as he took aim from behind the grassy knoll.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Frederic Rice
|Sub: It'll be apparent
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:46:19
EID:fc1b 224ab5c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ffa53b
A local radio station does a Mystery Quize and gives clues to
get you to the answer.
Today's quize's premise was:
"What's hiding behin the apron of the Frugal Gourmet!"
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he bulldozed the virgin growth forest.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: ...
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:27:00
EID:2b65 224a7360
Richard and Ken were killing time yakking about ...:
RS> You mean you don't know? LOL . . .
ky> Why do you think he was tried and sentenced?
RS> I don't think he was tried and sentenced. I don't think he
RS> existed at all.
KY> Now, we can argue about whether or not something of the supernatural
KY> exists, but even history will agree with me that Jesus was a real
KY> person.
(G) Will it now?
What do you have to offer outside of your scriptures to back that up?
RS> BTW, answering a question with a question in order to not
RS> answer the original question is step four in the Fundy
RS> Shuffle. Did you realize that you were dancing?
KY> Yeah, but I thought it was the Macarena.. :)
Understandable confusion...they are similar.
KY> So, Einstein.. What is step five?
That's when you suddenly remember that your hard drive died, and you're
too
busy anyway what with taking care of your Great Aunt Alice, so as much as
you'd LOVE to stay, you can't.
Advanced dancers throw in a long tortured goodbye speech on their way out,
calling on all their christian cohorts to shun this echo for the good of
the
Universe, preferring to dance out in a bunny hop chain instead of alone.
RS> The ALLEDGED ressurection. Got any non-Biblical evidence
RS> for it, Ken?
KY> Does that pesky stone that somehow moved by itself, ring a bell? :)
Sure, the same bell that that pandora's box, the yellow brick road, and
Jack's
beanstalk does.
Now try again to answer his question....got any NONbiblical evidence for
it?
Or DO you believe in the Yellow Brick Road based on the fact that the Wizard
of Oz mentions it?
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž It's not the fall that injures, it's the sudden stop.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: A baby + God = Hell
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:28:00
EID:154c 224a7380
Jan and Ken were killing time yakking about A baby + God = Hell:
Jd> But, Ken.....newborns SPEAKING LIES fresh outta the womb? Just SPEAKING
Jd> would be miraculous........and your evidence for this is?
KY> It doesn't have to be verbally.
How does a newborn baby lie NONverbally? Example, please?
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž He's as innocent as a newBorg baby.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:28:00
EID:60ef 224a7380
Roger and Ken were killing time yakking about CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT:
RH> Let me clue you in, fundy. No one has a right to an opinion where
RH> facts are concerned. It is not intolerance to call an idiot an
RH> idiot. It is a simple statement of fact.
KY> But what facts are concerned? Prove with facts that Christians are
KY> wrong. Prove Creationism wrong. Prove miracles wrong. Prove that
KY> there is no God. Can't do it, so there are no facts, in your little,
KY> "I don't believe it so it must be wrong," world.
KY> And even if one THINKS they know something for a fact, it is in fact
KY> closeminded to refuse to at least listen for himself to see if the
KY> possibility could be ther [):?eCW)C| :(x`
I think typing in tongues is going a bit far to attempt to make your point,
Jelly.
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "How'd ya make out?"- Gangster; "Used my tongue."- Crow
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:28:00
EID:7320 224a7380
David and Ken were killing time yakking about Cracker Barrel boycott:
DW>> Imagine that you're watching the news one day and learn
DW>> that I have been out torturing, raping, and murdering
DW>> in your name. Would you not do your best to let it be
DW>> known that you support none of those actions?
KY> Perhaps not.. If I did, that would just be making it even bigger..
DW> I see. You don't mind people thinking of you as someone
DW> who would be in favor of such things.
KY> I would like to think I wouldn't care. What does it matter what
KY> others think of me? All I can do is do the best to walk my walk, and
KY> people can think what they want.
And it IS 'walking your walk' to not care that someone is victimizing people
as your representative. That APATHY defines your breed of christianity,
that
is more interested in alibi-ism and loopholes than in whether anyone is
being
hurt by it.
Instead of worrying about 'making it bigger' - and its plain you mean your
being attached to it, NOT the victimization itself - why not work to reduce
the victimization itself?
DW> The Klan is just as Christian as you are, bozo.
KY> When one goes against basic beliefs of Christianity, they are not a
KY> Christian.
There are as many definitions for 'basic beliefs of christianity' as there
are christians to cite them.
I assume compassion for victims is not on your list.
... "You appear to be upset because you're stupid and others aren't" FRice
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:16:00
EID:a9de 224a7200
Sally and Ken were killing time yakking about most Xians only "iffy":
KY> WHat's this? The majority?!? Where do you come up with this
KY> stuff, anyway? I believe the majority of people with Judeo
KY> Christian beliefs consider themselves Protestants.
SS> Except for the Catholics, of course.
KY> I said the MAJORITY of Christians.
KY> Of course, I have been told even by some Catholics, that they are not
KY> Christians.
No you haven't! Some EX Catholics who've converted to your denomination
and
agree with the absurdity that there is a difference between catholicism
and
christianity, perhaps. Some who are a-religious but were raised catholic,
maybe. But no active catholic is going to tell you that they are not christian.
The the majority of those with "Judeo Christian beliefs", world wide are
on
the CATHOLIC side of the theological fence, not the protestant side.
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž I'm not a minority. I'm an outnumbered majority!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 09 Feb 97 08:27:00
EID:2351 22494360
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32FE9B7D
DR>PB>... Jesus Christ: Imaginary Playmate to Millions of Adults!
DR>Yet another gift aphorism from the worshipers of Darwin. I am truly
blessed
DR>
Here's some more blesssing with the truth of GOD.
1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted
o
ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern
for
psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more
often
worse than those who walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual
and intellectual development," has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical,
mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept
it i
business all these years!
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A Peake, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 09 Feb 97 08:49:00
EID:4d4d 22494620
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32FE9B7E
DR>MK> It's your claim, and your job to provide such evidence to back up
the
DR>MK> claim. Hop to it, don't just talk about it.
DR>Ok, boing~boing~boing~boing~boing~boing~boing look at this. ===> The
Bible
DR>Care to examine it. Care to prove it wrong? Let's hop to that.
Here's some another poster ask.
>*< /file/bookoflies
Date: 03-30-96 (04:14)
From: ELLIOTT FINESSE
To: ALL
Subj: More Bible Errors
-
The Biblical errors and contradictions I see mentioned here are getting
a
little worn out. So I thought I'd offer up a few "new" ones. These, of
course don't begin to exhaust the list:
Why would a perfect garden (Eden) require tending and cultivation? (Gen.
3:15)
Gen. 2:17 says Adam or would die the day he ate the fruit. Adam lived for
930 years (Gen. 5:5).
God tells Cain he will be a vagrant and a wanderer (Gen. 4:12). Yet Cain
settled down and founded a city (Gen. 4:16-17).
Abraham took Keturah for a wife (Gen. 25:1). Later we are told Keturah
was only a concubine (1 Chron. 1:32).
Isaac was Abraham's only begotten son (according to Gen. 22:2 & Heb.
11:17). Gen. 16:16 and Gal. 4:22 says he also had a son Ishmael.
God promised Abraham the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession.
(Gen. 17:8). Yet he got nothing he was promised (Acts 7:5, Heb. 11:9-13).
Many places in the Bible say that all have sinned (I Kings 8:46, 2 Chron
6:36, Proverbs 20:9, etc etc). Yet according to Gen. 6:29 and 7:1 Noah was
righteous and blameless, as were Job (Job 1:1, 1:8, 2:3), Zacharias, and
Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6).
Joshua 19:2-6 reports Simeon as inheriting "13" cities (and their
villages) and names them - all 14.
Apparently Joshua can't count since he does the same thing in naming the
"14" cities of the lowland Judah - and lists 15. (Joshua 15:33-36)
Job 21:7-9 says the wicked live long. Psalms 55:23 & Proverbs 10:27 say
the wicked die young.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 says God deceives unbelievers to make them believe
falsehoods (even thought God supposedly hates lying - Proverbs 12:22). 1
Tim. 2:3-4 says God wants all to know the truth.
Isaiah 17:1 prophesied that Damascus "is about to be removed as a city,
and it will become a fallen ruin." Today, as one of the oldest cities in
the world, Damascus is the ONLY city in Palestine that has never been
destroyed.
Ezekiel prophesied that Egypt will be laid to waste, its cities
uninhabited for 40 years. (Ez. 29:9-12) Never happened.
Jesus's final words are different in three of the four Gospels, Matthew,
and Mark being the only accounts that agree with each other. (Matt. 27:46,
Mark 15:34, Luke 23:46, John 19:30)
Jesus says "and if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she
commits adultery." (Mark 10:12) Women of that time and place had NO right
or ability to divorce their husbands.
The KJV says: "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the SON OF MAN, in
whom there is no help" (Psalms 146:3, emphasis added). Other versions of
the Bible often try to alter this passage.
>*<
The Book of Lies that many Christians follow to boost their faith, is
full of such items.
* SLMR 2.1a * Isaiah 45:7. God says that he created evil.-PS
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 18:58:02
EID:61d9 224a9740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 309da5f7
TID: GE/2 1.2
KY> I am against homosexuality.
Why? Just another religious bigot, eh?
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the
KY> color of their skin, while gays do choose their sexual
KY> orientation.
It seems rather doubtful that people consciously choose their
sexual orientation. Did YOU make such a choice, Ken? Was it really
a matter for you that required some conscious decision regarding
to whom you would feel sexually attracted?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: THX-1138 and Louis Wu
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:24:40
EID:ab9b 224aab00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Richard = Smith THEN Damien Wellman ELSE THX-1138 and Louis Wu
DW> Actually, there is more than one novel that has devices of this
DW> type, while I don't know if it came before or after Ringworld,
DW> Spider Robinson's "Mindkiller" comes to mind, as does the short
DW> story it was based on, "God Is An Iron".
RS> I know. I was just correcting Fredric's reference to Niven,
RS> though. Niven used to be a favorite of mine, and I _had_ to
RS> set the record straight.
Yah, I like Niven too, when I can find any of his books.
... "Scientists aren't sure what this represents..." -- Mike Nelson
---
* TLX v4.00 *Email: damienw@juno.com
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 10 Feb 97 21:24:41
EID:b395 224aab00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Ronald = Vass THEN Damien Wellman ELSE native americans
DW> True. You only need fire if you want the spear to have a metal head
or
DW> shaft.
RV> Just what is expected from a West Virginia.
West Virginian.
RV> Fire is used to harden a wooden spear point. I know, I know. Your rich
Your should be you are, or you're.
RV> and pay those folks down south to toss your spears . What can we say,
RV> W.V.'s don't know which end to hold.
Pht! I scoff at spears. I scoff in your general direction! Scoff! Scoff!
Scoff! :-)
---
ž TLX v4.00 ž "If we offend, it is with our goodwill." -- Shakespeare
Email: damienw@juno.com
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: QUENTIN FAI
|Sub: Anthropic asininities
|Date: 10 Feb 97 14:47:00
EID:72a4 224a75e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Quentin Fai to Martin Goldberg <=-
>MG> What sort of add-ons would these be. While we hear
>MG> stories of carrots and cukes, the most oft removed
>MG> vegetable from human orifices in ER's is the common
>MG> potato. It is used by the uninformed as a birth
>MG> control device.
Rectally, no doubt. Dumth knows no limits.
QF> I knew some people were stupid, but I didn't know that
QF> people could be *that* stupid.
And getting stupider.
... "Mein Fuehrer! I can't think!" -- Dr. StrangeCreationist
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: AYESHA WILLIAMS
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 10 Feb 97 15:04:00
EID:09bf 224a7880
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ayesha Williams to All <=-
AW> Why is it that it seems that every Christian church
AW> is trying to convert the whole world? Ayesha
Profit and power.
... "Christianity based on the writings of Saul? HAHAHAHAHHA" -- Ken Wiens
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: JFK AND KISSINGER
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:09:00
EID:1d91 224b3920
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Mark Kimes <=-
-> On 05 Feb 97 13:23:51, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
>>>HP> prophecy...
>>DC> Don't forget Kissinger!
>MK> How _is_ Dr. Kissinger, anyway?
DC> Good question. I haven't heard anything about him since
DC> about the time Nixon died.
I see both Doctor Kissinger and Richard Nixon every
Tuesday. It's rather anoying actually, but what the Hell.
I'm not one to complain.
In my search for the perfect Chile Releno(sp?) I found a
Mexican restaurant three miles from where I live (from my
boat) that does an excellent job, so I go there once a
week. One problem is that Nixon, Reagan, and Kissinger, to
name three of dozens of sleezy politicians, used to eat
there often, and their photographs plaster each wall.
(Talk about making one lose ones' appetite.) The place
still gets lots of Republicans eatting there (I guess they
like to see the Mexican slave labor making less than
minimum wage).
Once some rather stupid-looking guy, surrounded by thugs,
walked in and visited each table asking diners if he could
"count on your support for State Treasurer." I smiled and
told him I wasn't running for State Treasurer. (Goddess,
I'm such a wit.) He growled at me and went into the other
dining room. (I thought that the Treasurer was appointed,
not elected.)
One can wander the two rooms looking at Kissinger stuffing
himself with chicken enchiladas; one can look at a dozen
photographs that catch ever nuance of Nixon, spanning a
few years, shoveling Mexican rice in his mug the same way
(plate-in-face) every time. And these photographs are
autographed. Sheeish.
I still recommend the place. It's on Coast Highway South
of the entrance to Doheney State Beach. It's got purple
doors and a large lighted sign in the front. It's a real
bitch trying to leave the parking lot, so I park on the
street. I like to sit under a picture of Kissinger who's
laughing with his pals while leaning TO THE LEFT in his
seat. That cracks me up.
... "And he huffed, and he puffed, and he BLLLEEEEEEWWW the church down."
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: hypocritical godlings
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:19:00
EID:dcd6 224b3a60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Richard Smith <=-
-=> Richard Smith spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-
>>JF> He didn't kill the fig tree out of some conviction
>>JF> that the fig tree was evil or something!
He killed the tree to show how petulant and childish a
godling he was.
>>JF> Think about that.
ROFTL! A gleefully ignorant Fundy telling his intellectual
superiors to "think about that." ROTFL!
>RS> So it WASN'T a metaphor?
JB> And if it wasn't an EVIL fig tree, why did it have to die?
For the same reason little Jesus killed some of his playmates
and struck others blind. He lived in The Twilight Zone.
... "And he huffed, and he puffed, and he BLLLEEEEEEWWW the church down."
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Italian cheeseheads
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:23:00
EID:3d1c 224b3ae0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
>>JB> desk from her. LOOKING at her. And telling her she
>>JB> isn't handicapped.
>DC> Does that bureaucrat still breathe? I hope not.
Someone might shoot the bastard in the knees and then
ask if he considers that a handicap.
JB> The letter that Crystal received from the state
JB> only lists 3 categories that are to be considered
JB> handicapped...paraplegic, quadraplegic and totally
JB> mentally incapacitated. The BLIND aren't even
JB> listed as handicapped.
Does that mean slightless people may not park in the
handicap spots at the market?
JB> As I told Lynda, I hope the state remembers that
JB> when the first guy with a guide dog shows up to
JB> take his driver's test.
He'll just have the dog take the eye test.
... Support the National Endowment for Creative Misogyny.- J. Falwell
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: BOOTSTRAPPING UP, UP!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:29:00
EID:a3cd 224b3ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder <=-
AS> Like Jesus, Christianity is constantly being declared dead.
By who, exactly?
AS> But it won't stay dead.
Like Odin, Astara is constantly being declared dead. But it
is alive and well. So is Aphrodite, Innana, Astarte, Hecate.
Indeed, I have a friend who knows for a fact that Thor is
working and guiding him in his life, just as many Christians
claim their long-dead Jew does.
Therefore, what exactly was your point?
... "Be fuckers and multiply...." -- Genesis 1:22 (paraphrased)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:31:00
EID:ab06 224b3be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Paul Davis <=-
-=> Paul Davis spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
>>JB> fierljepper.
Sounds dirty. :-)
>PD> Is that Dutch again? Sorry, my Dutch isn't /that/
>PD> good and doesn't
JB> Actually it's Frisian. And it isn't a flame. It's
JB> the sport of pole vaulting over canals.
Dwarf Tossing is more my style.
How does one write "Fule Injector" in Dutch?
... Newt does -NOT- speak for me!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: TV TAX
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:51:00
EID:2265 224b3e60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Paul Davis <=-
-=> Paul Davis spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
>>JB> whether you watch BBC TV programmes or not. By
>>JB> just having a working television set in your
>>JB> house you have to buy a licence.
There were several women thrown in jail for not paying
this tax. It is an abomination--- information should
never be taxed, regardless of content. Imagine being
taxed when one reads a book or goes to a poetry reading.
>PD> It's not popular with a hell of a lot of us Brits
>PD> neither I can assure
JB> Not popular with the Dutch who have the same licensing
JB> system. Of course, I'm not real fond of our state's
JB> personal property tax, either, but we have it. In addition
JB> to paying sales tax when you buy a car, a boat or a mobile
JB> home, you have to pay ppt on it EVERY year. If you don't
JB> pay the tax you can't register it. If you don't register
JB> it, you cant use it.
Rather, may not use it. :-)
JB> (Or in the case of vehicles or boats, get license
JB> renewal)
One need not pay personal property tax to the county if
ones' boat was out of the county for the majority of a
year. The problem is that one is taxed anyhow, and one
must correct the problem after the fact by producing
evidence that the boat was out of the county. If one sails
away to Tahiti for three years and then comes back, the
county can take that boat away and sell it for the cost of
the "back taxes" for those three years plus a 10% fine,
unless one has someone back home filing the proper forms
with the county ASSessor.
The state's mendacity is even worse: they pay assessment
investigators a large cut of the take for every assessed
boat they track down and assest. The larger the value the
assessor says the boat is worth, the greater their cut. My
boat is worth about US$15,000, but an assessor can say it
is worth twice that much, and if I do not pay the US$300 a
year while I appeal the assessment, the county can take
the boat away and sell it for that US$300. One must pay
the tax and THEN appeal the amount. If one does not pay
the tax before the appeal, the assessor goes down to the
boat and chains it to the dock, butting the boat under
arrest.
This is why many boat owners play "hide-and-seek" with
the assessor, moving their boats around two or three
times a year.
I wonder if I could turn my boat into a church, and thus
not pay property tax on it. The mast and spreaders already
look like a crucifix.
... Look, Chickie. It's your Bible, your rules; YOU go to hell. - Marty
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTAN FACTIONS
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:53:00
EID:e7b1 224b3ea0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Judith Bandsma <=-
KW> So Bear's still ahead of Leo.
Ursa Major or Ursa Minor?
... An atheist with a Bible is a fundie's worst nightmare!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Partial Virgin a little p
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:58:00
EID:f9bf 224b3f40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Dave Hamilton <=-
-=> Dave Hamilton spoke thusly to Jan Deboer <=-
>DH> I think that from Al's POV, all xtians are defined
>DH> by his conclusions.
JB> We are seeing more and more that from Al's POV, all
JB> PEOPLE are defined by his conclusions, not just
JB> xians or other religious people.
This is true for everyone, as far as I can tell. Or I
should say that I admit to defining people based upon
my experiences and biases.
Only most people have the tact and tolerance Al appears
to lack.
... "And the inspiration for the vagina was...?" -- Steve Q
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Fart In Tune
|Date: 11 Feb 97 08:02:00
EID:2098 224b4040
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Jim Staal <=-
-=> Jim Staal spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
>JS> Judy would even think you could fart right.
JB> You become slime by association. And the 'you'
JB> is not a general one, Jim.
But there are proper ways to fart.
... Do YOU trust a religion that won't obey it's OWN laws?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: E, F and G Mail!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 12:58:00
EID:1fdc 224b6740
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Fredric Rice <=-
>FR> What's your email address, doc?
ML> MLeipzig@AOL.com *OR* leipzig.m%6230001@mcimail.com
ML> Hey. They're free.
That must be why neither work. :-)
... "I am a hisotry of buff of sorts[....]" -- Ken Young (home schooled)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: 'Profanity' bullshit
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:11:00
EID:7c80 224b6960
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Marilyn Burge <=-
DR0> I realize that you may not care what a stupid,
DR0> backwards, archaic-minded, sexist fundy like me
DR0> thinks, but I am not alone. This is the case
DR0> with men both inside and outside the ranks of
DR0> fundyhood, Ma'am. Any "decent" man feels this way.
What the fuck do YOU know about "decency?" A decent
man accepts women as they are, and does not desire
to dictate policy at them.
DR0> That just about any man views a gutter-mouthed
DR0> female as being less than virtuous.
I trust a "gutter-mouthed female" far more than I would
trust a stupid, backwards, archaic-minded, sexist fundy
like yourself. I respect, admire, and am attracted to
women who say what they damn well feel like, instead of
playing arbitrary roles that stupid women-hatting shits
like yourself try to force them to accept.
... "I am a hisotry of buff of sorts[....]" -- Ken Young (home schooled)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:23:00
EID:3735 224b6ae0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Paul Boyer
>PB> Atheism is a NON-religion -- it requires no faith --
That's true. Atheism = "without theism," i.e. a lack of
belief in the gods. No faith involved.
DR0> Sure it does. It requires _faith_ to contend that _NO_
DR0> God[sic] exists.
What makes you believe all atheists contend that gods do
not exist?
Do you believe Santa Claus exists? If not, do you have
faith he does not exist, or does logic and reason tell
you he does not exist?
... I wouldn't trust 'God' to co-pilot an escalator. --- J.J. Hitt
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:32:00
EID:6c9b 224b6c00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Ken Young <=-
-=> Ken Young wrote to Fredric Rice
>KY> [North American colonists] came here in part to escape
>KY> religious tyranny.
Mostly they came for the money.
>KY> Nowhere will you find one of them saying that they were
>KY> trying to escape Christian tyranny.
ROTFL!
DW> Were they trying to escape Muslim tyranny? Hindu tyranny?
DW> Jewish tyranny?
Smirk. What with all the fundy "hisotry of buff of sorts"
and the erudite "English Majors" in this echo, one would
think the level of Fundy discourse would be more correct
than it is.
... "I am a hisotry of buff of sorts[....]" -- Ken Young (home schooled)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:57:00
EID:70e8 224b6f20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Ever hear of Bosnia? Ireland? Jonestown? Waco?
... "Nature writes with a spray can, not a ballpoint pen." - Zadeh
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:46:00
EID:70e8 224b6dc0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
CHURCHES SHIFT ABUSE DEFENSES
18-May-94 Denver Post:
Holding Groups Responsible 'violates religious freedom.'
By Virginia Culver
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Attorneys for three local church organizations that recently
lost court cases involving sexual misconduct by clergy claim
that holding churches accountable for ministers' conduct robs
them of their religious freedom.
In "friend of the court" briefs filed this month with the US
Supreme Court, attorneys in two Denver United Methodist cases
and a third involving Denver's Bear Valley Church of Christ say
lower-court rulings making churches liable for ministers'
actions violate the First Amendment by restricting the churches
"free exercise of religion".
The attorneys said that telling churches how to "select, assign,
supervise and discipline clergy, and how religious organizations
may conduct their administration and how a clergy person does
pastoral counseling" violates the First Amendment.
Questioning how churches operate "directly interferes with the
institutions' free exercise of religion," the attorneys charge.
The legal arguments were filed in defense of the Colorado
Episcopal Diocese and its appeal of a sexual misconduct case.
In that case, the diocese is appealing to the US Court of
Appeals a $728,000 judgment to Mary Moses Tenantry. She alleged
that a sexual relationship with her priest, the Rev. Paul
Robinson, cause her extreme, psychological and spiritual harm.
Tenantry and Robinson became involved when he was an associate
past of St. Philip and St. James Episcopal Church in southwest
Denver.
A jury awarded her $1.2 million from the diocese in 1991. The
diocese appealed that decision to the Colorado Supreme Court,
which reduced the judgment to $728,000.
The United Methodist cases, both this year, involved Dianne R.
Winkler of Aurora and Christa Bohrer of Denver.
Winkler was awarded more than $163,000 in January by a Denver
District Court jury in her civil suit against the Rev. Glenn
Chambers, former pastor of Grace United Methodist Church in
southeast Denver. She alleged sexual harassment. Chambers and
the church appealed the verdict to the Colorado Court of Appeals
this month.
Bohrer was awarded more than $700,000 in her civil suit in
Denver District against former minister Daniel DeHart and the
United Methodist Annual Conference (the equivalent of a
diocese). She alleged DeHart seduced her into a sexual
relationship when she was 13 and he was youth minister at First
Methodist Church in Greeley.
In the Church of Christ suit in 1992, a Dever woman and her son
were awarded $450,000 by a Denver District Court jury. The
woman, who son was a minor at the time, claimed the minister,
Homer Wolfe, inappropriately massaged and fondled him during
counseling sessions for five years. That case is before the
Colorado Court of Appeals.
In all three judgments, juries concluded church officials failed
to properly screen, hire and supervise the ministers. All three
juries also ordered the church or conference to pay at least
half the damages.
Friend of the court briefs are filed by parties who stand to be
materially affected by the outcome of a pending decision--in
this case, the high court's decision about whether to review the
Tenantry case. In their briefs, the church attorneys threaten
to appeal their judgments--to the US Court of Appeals, if
necessary.
But an expert in constitutional law at the University of Dever
said he doubts the First Amendment claims will get anywhere.
Stephen Pepper, BU law professor, said for the government to say
how a religion chooses it rabbi or priest "gets into the freedom
of religion."
Religious groups do have the right to the free exercise of their
religion, he said, in all matters of administration, "but if
your minister hurts someone, you'll have to pay." said Pepper.
He called the First Amendment defense "a live issue" that has
been used in other church cases, particularly those involving
discrimination. "It's kind of a knee-jerk defense."
"But it's pretty hard to defend against statutory rape and
sexual harassment," he said.
The attorneys filing the friend of the court briefs are Neil
Quigley, who represented the United Methodists in the Bohrer and
Winkler cases and the Church of Christ in the third case; and
Jim Johnson, attorney for Homer Wolfe.
The attorneys say in the briefs that they have been "involved in
many lawsuits in Colorado for almost ten years where religious
institutions have had claims against them for sexual
improprieties."
Devern attorney Joyce Seelen, who represented Tenantry, Winkler,
Bohrer and the woman who sued on behalf of her son, yesterday
refused to comment about the recent briefs. Two others briefs
supporting the Episcopal diocese and citing the First Amendment
argument have been filed with the US Court of Appeals.
The American Association of Pastoral Counselors, headquarters in
Virginia, said the lower court "did not understand that pastoral
counseling and supervision of parish clergy is not the
equivalent to employment supervision."
The other brief was filed by a coalition of Colorado religious
groups, including Catholics and Protestants.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:47:00
EID:70e8 224b6de0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Beating The Devil
___--------------------------------------------------------------
As reported in the London Free Press, Thursday, September 22,
1994 pg. A6
Pair on Trial for gouging out their sister's eyeballs. The three
women say they were trying to flee the devil
Associated Press
DALLAS -- Myra Obasi and her sisters say they were fleeing the
devil.
They gave away their children, tried to drive into traffic and
off bridges, and eventually abandoned their car, saying it was
cursed.
Finally, prosecutors say, they tried to remove the evil
possessing Obasi by pummelling her and gouging out her eyeballs,
possibly with their fingernails.
A jury Wednesday began deliberating the case against Doretha
Crawford, 34, and Beverly Johnson, 35 both of Arcadia, La. They
are charged with aggravated assault against their now-blind
sister.
The three sisters all say they don't know how Obasi was blinded.
The women do say that they left Arcadia, a pine-forested town of
about 3,000 people, because a local voodoo man told them a devil
was trying to kill them.
During the two-day trip, the women--afraid the devil had caught
up with them--left their five children with strangers in
Marshall, Tex., 150 kilometres from home. The youngsters were
eventually returned to the family.
Later, Obasi began trying to drive into traffic and off bridges.
Police found them stopped outside Dallas and were told by the
sisters that there was a curse on the car.
The siblings then hitchhiked into Dallas, about 320 kilometres
from where they started, where they were seen praying and
begging for help on March 18.
Dorothy Hughes, a teacher who spotted the women on her morning
walk, said the sisters pummelled and prayed with Obasi, who
offered no resistance.
"Her eyes were very red," she said. "I just had not seen eyes
like that before. They were blood red." Doctors testified that
they eyes were removed by something sharp, possibly fingernails.
... "I am a hisotry of buff of sorts[....]" -- Ken Young (home schooled)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:48:00
EID:70e8 224b6e00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Beating The Devil, Article Number Two
Dallas Morning News, Friday 9/23/94
WOMEN GET PROBATION FOR GOUGING SISTER'S EYES.
By Steve Scott
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Two Louisiana Women, convicted of plucking out their sister's
eyes in an apparent attempt to drive a demonic spirit from her
body, were sentenced to ten years' probation Thursday.
Lawyers for Doretha Crawford, 34, and Beverly Johnson, 35, said
they plan to appeal and seek a new trial to establish their
clints's innocence. A Dallas County jury found the women guilty
of aggravated assault Wednesday in the March 18 attack that
permanently blinded their sister, Myra Obasi.
Ms. Obasi had asked prosecutors not to pursue the case and
testified on her sisters' behalf. She said she "thanked God" for
the probationary sentences but was unhappy with the guilty
verdicts.
"I don't agree with that," she said. "My sisters are my best
friends. They love me, and I love them. I know that they did not
do this."
Testimony had suggested that the women believed their sister was
possessed and blamed her condition on voodoo practices, but
their statements Thursday afternoon centered on the Christian
faith.
"Only true believers in Christ can undersand what we went
through," Ms. Johnson said.
Defense attorney Lela Washington said she also believed Ms.
Obasi had been possessed by some supernatural power.
"If you're a Christian, then you know there's a devil," she said.
Ms. Obasi lost her eyesight on March 18 after she and her
sisters drove to Dallas from Louisiana and stopped at a prayer
house in southeast Oak Cliff. Witnesses testified that they saw
Ms. Crawford and Ms. Johnson beating their sister and trying to
press cloves of garlic into her eyes. She was taken to Parkland
Memorial Hospital later that day with her eyes gouged out.
In their testimony Tuesday, the women described leaving
Louisiana in terror after being told that another sister had
joined forces with a voodoo cult in an effort to have them
killed.
On the journey, they said, Ms. Obasi appeared to become
possessed by a demonic spirit. Ms. Crawford testified that her
sister began breathing mist, her eyes bulged and her tongue grew
long and discolored. Ms. Obasi also began speaking in a man's
voice, her sister said.
Ms. Obasis said Thursday that neither she nor her sisters
believe in voodoo, but said she had been victimized by an evil
spirit and that "something that wasn't of this world" took
possession of her body.
She testified during the trial that she did not remember who
gouged out her eyes.
Assistant District Attorney said he was satisfied with the
jury's decision. But he said that others who might be involved
in ritual mutilations shouldn't think probation in such cases is
guaranteed.
"They've got to remember that each case is decided based on the
facts in that case alone," he said.
He also expressed concern about Ms. Obasi's current situation,
in which she is being cared for by her sisters and participating
in therapy to cope with the leoss of her sight.
"I don't know whether being with the sisters now will help her
recovery or hurt it," he said.
But Ms. Obasi said she looks forward to spending time with her
siblings and doesn't fear a recurrence of the demon that she
says took her sight.
"I know it won't come back," Ms. Obasi said. "I believe God and
his word.
"If there's anything I want people to realize from this case,
it's that God is real. I'm living proof that he is real."
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:49:00
EID:70e8 224b6e20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Gunmen for Christ
___--------------------------------------------------------------
March 10, 1993 -- Dr. David Gunn was shot to death outside a
Pensacola, Fla., clinic, the first American doctor killed during
an anti-abortion demonstration. Michael Griffin was convicted
and sentenced to life in prison.
Aug. 19, 1993 -- Dr. George Tiller was shot in both arms as he
drove out of the parking lot at his Wichita, Kan., clinic.
Rachelle (Shelley) Shannon was convicted and sentenced to 11
years in prison.
July 29, 1994 -- Dr. John Bayard Britton and his escort, James
Barrett, were slain outside a Pensacola, Fla., abortion clinic.
Paul Hill, 40, a former minister and an abortion foe, was
convicted of state murder charges and sentenced to death. In a
separate federal trial, Hill was sentenced to life without
parole for violating the new federal clinic-protection law.
Nov. 8, 1994 -- Dr. Garson Romalis, who performs abortions in
Vancouver, B.C., Canada, was shot in the leg while eating
breakfast at home. No arrests have been made.
Dec. 30, 1994 -- A gunman killed two staff workers and five
other people at two abortion clinics in the Boston suburb of
Brookline. A 22-year-old hairdresser named John Salvi was later
arrested and charged with murder.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:50:00
EID:70e8 224b6e40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Assemblies of God and Child Abuse
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Los Angeles - Five men who were sexually molested as children by
a minister have reached a $1.75 million out-of-court settlement
with the Assemblies of God, Inc. The victims, now [ages] 27 to
30, will share the settlement.
The minister, the Rev. Dalton Webber Sr., admitting his guilt
during the course of the suit and stated that he had been
forgiven. Webber, formerly the senior pastor at Good Shepherd
Assemblies of God Worship Center in Carlsbad, Cailfornia, moved
to Filoan Springs, Arkansas, before the suit was filed. - Walk
Away
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:53:00
EID:70e8 224b6ea0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
"Family values" leader accused of abuse and neglect
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Mon, July 24, 1995
SAN DIEGO - One of the state's most outspoken proponents of
family values has been married five times, owes thousands of
dollars in child support and has been accused of threatening his
ex-spouse and girlfriend, according to a published report.
Jim Harnsberger leads the conservative California Republican
Assembly in San Diego and helped found the Center for Family
Values, a group that condemns people who abuse their spouses and
ignore parental responsibilities.
But the 40-year-old Harnsberger failed to pay family support
totaling $18,000 between 1988 and 1992 for a child in his third
marriage, according to court records cited by the San Diego
Union-Tribune Monday.
Harnsberger admits to making mistakes in his personal life but
maintains his shortcomings should not overshadow his current
message.
"I can only get on my knees and pray to God to forgive, and take
from that and try to do the best I can the next day. That's all
I can do," Harnsberger told the paper. "I refuse to look for
excuses. I accept full responsibility for what I do."
In other court documents, his third wife alleges Harnsberger
made threats to both her and her unborn child.
"He has been violent with me before, and I fear for my unborn
child and myself," the woman wrote in a 1988 declaration seeking
child support.
Another woman, a former girlfriend, obtained a court order
requiring Harnsberger to stay away from her.
"(He) said he would cut me up into little pieces and throw me
into the ocean and no one would ever know," the woman wrote in
1987.
But Harnsberger told the newspaper: "I don't put much
credibility in what ex-wives and people with axes to grind have
to say."
... Blasphemy is the breastplate of the heartless.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:54:00
EID:70e8 224b6ec0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
New unity on Jonestown memorial plan
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Brazil OF THE EXAMINER STAFF
Wednes, July 19, 1995
Bay Area African American leaders have launched a fund-raising
campaign for a Jonestown memorial wall at Evergreen Cemetery in
Oakland.
They're aiming to unveil the memorial Nov. 18, the 17th
anniversary of the suicide- murders of 914 men, women and
children at cult leader Jim Jones' compound in the Guyanan rain
forest.
First, though, there's the matter of raising $35,000 for the
20-foot-long, 6-foot-tall wall, on which the names of all the
victims would be inscribed.
"We have a duty to ensure that the legacy does not perish," said
Kola Thomas of the Center for African-American Art and Culture
in San Francisco.
Fund raising for a memorial wall has gone on fitfully for
several years, but Tuesday's announcement marked the first
unified effort by the African American community to get the job
done.
A total of 406 victims who followed Jones and his Peoples Temple
from San Francisco to Jonestown are buried in a mass grave at
Evergreen Cemetery. The site is marked by one modest headstone.
That headstone was placed by retired San Francisco butcher Fred
Lewis, whose wife and seven children died at Jonestown. He is
taking a leading role in raising funds for the monument, as is
his niece, the Rev. Jynona Norwood, a Los Angeles minister.
Donations may be made payable to Jonestown Memorial Wall Fund,
Account 103347, and forwarded to Allen Temple Baptist Church
Federal Credit Union, 8500 A St., Oakland, CA 94621
... Anything that can be laughed out of this world ought not to stay in
it
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:56:00
EID:70e8 224b6f00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Katherine Wintersnight
KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
KY> Christianity?
Jeffrey Dahmer: a Product Of Christian Fundamentalism
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Dahmer is the son of a Born Again Fundamentalist (Church
of Christ) father. Jeffrey's Born Again Fundamentalist home life
led him to feel he could not acknowledge his homosexuality to
his Fundamentalist father, and instead he developed an intense
hatred of himself and of other gay men.
Well Jeffrey has now come home. He has become a Born Again
Fundamentalist, baptized by a minister of the Church of Christ.
The following article chronicles the story of Jeffrey Dahmer's
pilgrimage of faith: from Born Again Fundamentalist home to Born
Again Fundamentalist prison cell, from Church of Christ to
Church of Christ.
___--------------------------------------------------------------
"Anger at his homosexuality led Dahmer to kill, psychiatrist
says"
[Milwaukee Sentinel, 7 Feb 92, by David Doege, Sentinel Staff
Writer]
Serial killer Jeffrey L. Dahmer killed his victims out of anger
at his homosexuality and kept body parts as trophies, like a
hunter, a psychiatrist testified in Dahmer's sanity trial
Thursday.
"I don't believe his behavior was sexually motivated,"
psychiatrist George Palermo said. "I believe Jeffrey Dahmer
killed his victims because he hated homosexuality."
Palermo, the first mental health expert in Dahmer's trial to
testify that he was sane and criminally responsible when he
murdered, also said that Dahmer has lied for years and still
lies today.
"He lied to the judge in 1989 (when Dahmer was sentenced for
sexual assault)," Palermo said. "He lied to his lawyer.
"He lied to many doctors to get the (sleeping) pills. It is my
feeling he has embellished a great deal in the things he has
said he did."
Palermo was the first witness to testify after defense attorney
Gerald P. Boyle rested his case. Appointed by Circuit Judge
Laurence C. Gram, Jr. as an impartial examiner, Palermo put
Boyle in the position of attacking a psychiatric opinion for the
first time in the trial.
While Boyle could not get Palermo to back down on his opinion
that Dahmer was criminally responsible for his killings, Boyle
did get the psychiatrist to concede that Dahmer needed treatment
to stop his killing spree.
"If he doesn't go for any help at all, he would have killed
again, wouldn't he?" asked Boyle, who called the previous mental
health experts to testify as defense witnesses.
"I would say so," Palermo acknowledged.
"Palermo's testimony Thursday came as Dahmer's trial on 15
counts of first-degree intentional homicide neared the halfway
point. Dist. Atty. E. Michael McCann is to begin presenting the
prosecution's case Friday.
Dahmer, 31, has pleaded guilty, but insane, to the homicide
charges stemming from the slayings of 15 young men and boys in
West Allis and Milwaukee.
A jury is hearing the case to determine whether Dahmer should be
imprisoned because he was sane when he killed or if he should be
committed to a mental health institution because he was
criminally insane and could not conform his conduct to the law.
Palermo, a psychiatrist since 1962, came to Milwaukee from Italy
in 1952 but has returned to Rome periodically since then to
practice and teach for extended periods.
He has taught psychiatry in Rome, at Loyola Medical School in
Chicago and at Marquette University. He currently is on the
staff at the Milwaukee County Mental Health Comples in Wauwatosa
and the Milwaukee Forensic Unit.
Palermo, a grandfatherly type who speaks with an Italian accent,
frequently had the jury and others in the courtroom charmed and
smiling at his retorts to Boyle's questions, making it clear
that he knew where the lawyer was heading with his line of
questioning.
"Mr. Boyle, I have known you many years," Palermo said at one
point.
Palermo said Dahmer was "a very complex man" afflicted by severe
mixed personality disorder with features of sadism, compulsion,
anti-social behavior and narcissism, among other things. Palermo
said it would be wrong to categorize Dahmer as having one type
of behavior that controls his actions.
Defense psychologists and psychiatrists said Dahmer's criminal
actions were driven by necrophilia.
"Jeffrey Dahmer is a human being," Palermo said. "To take away
from him by just saying he is a necrophile is wrong," Palermo
said. "He is much more."
Boyle noted that many of the features cited by Palermo were by
themselves indicative of a sexual disorder. Boyle added that the
"Diagnostics and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders," a
highly regarded guidebook used by mental health experts
nationwide, indicated that the features denoted sexual deviancy.
Palermo said his conclusion about Dahmer's problems were more
important than the manual's.
"A guidebook is a guidebook," Palermo said. "It's up to me to
decide what is wrong."
Palermo said Dahmer could have stopped killing whenever he
wanted to and had done so in the past. Dahmer was in control of
his actions, but instead lied about them and concealed them,
Palermo said.
Dahmer's sentencing for sexual assault, Palermo said, was proof
he was in control because he had killed several people,
including one the day before he was sentenced, but was not
seeking help for it.
"As he was able to lie and not tell the truth to the judge and
to you, Mr. Boyle, so could he have told the truth," Palermo
said to Boyle who represented Dahmer in the sex case. "He was in
command of the situation.
"He was able to say, 'I'm not going to do it again. I'm going to
go for treatment.'"
Concerning Dahmer's difficulty in coming to grips with his
homosexuality, Palermo indicated that was a problem since
adolescence because he believed his family could not accept it.
The difficulty evolved into a hatred over the years which later
led to the killings, Palermo said.
--30--
... Pickup line: You're under arrest! Place your ankles behind your ears.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK O'NEILL
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 11 Feb 97 13:59:00
EID:a3bc 224b6f60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark O'neill to All <=-
MO> Hi all. Can anyone tell me who or what Blavatsky is? It's
MO> on an album of mine and I've been curious about it for years.
Madam Blavatsky more or less came up with the Theosophy bullshit.
... "I am a hisotry of buff of sorts[....]" -- Ken Young (home schooled)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: RICHARD SMITH
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 11 Feb 97 14:03:00
EID:abdd 224b7060
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to All <=-
> Well, religious zealotry and bigotry have hit the Pagan
> community here locally again. One of the members of our
> group was the unhappy recipient of a home search by police,
> etc., the other night. They were, obstensibly, looking for
> stuff to put her husband (a Mormon, I should point out, that
> apparently believes in the old fashioned Xtian ethic: beat
> the shit out of your wife every chance you get) away on.
No names; no dates; no information at all. Therefore I think
the events did not occur. The author(s) was telling a lie.
... Rush Limbaugh: Every Republican homosexual's dream date!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 09 Feb 97 20:52:00
EID:f735 2249a680
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe7f40
DM>Jim Goodman said "Oops, Caught Again" to David Worrell,
DM>adding:
DW>Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other possible gods?
DW>Don't you think they're gonna be a little pissed that you spent
DW>your life worshipping Jehovah?
JG>If I were taking a somewhat opposing position I'd say
JG>the first point above about the other gods being pissed
JG>only holds if they actually exist.
DM>If one _can_ exist, they _all_ may. There is no
DM>disputing the order of preference between imaginary
DM>superfriends.
Very true.
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Are you coming quietly or do I have to wear earplugs?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Apologies to Regulars
|Date: 09 Feb 97 20:57:02
EID:af4e 2249a720
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe806e
JG>Out of curiosity, what kind of evidence would have to exist
JG>for it to constitute evidence for the existence of an
JG>"Almighty" variety of a God?
DM> Personally, I have said many times that I would welcome ANY
DM>evidence of the existence of any god, and I have even specified
DM>ndirect evidence that would be quite convincing, not only to
DM>me, but (I suspect) to all the wicked atheists here: the residue
DM>of the Noachan Flood. It avoids the problem of "how can there be
DM>physical evidence for a spiritual being?" by focussing on one
DM>instance in which that spiritual being supposedly interacted
DM>physically with the physical world in a way that would have
DM>produced distinctive physical consequences. While we have seen
DM>fundies claim that their god is so deceitful as to cover his
DM>tracks, I, for one, would presume that such a dishonest being is
DM>unworthy of being taken seriously, much less of worship.
Yes. I've gone so far as to read alleged "scientific" evidence
for this Flood written by CRI "scientists." It is anything but
science. It is, in fact, downright deceitful. The only thing
this stuff does is turn people off to the God of the Bible.
I prefer to stick to genuine scientific writings written by
genuine scientists. So far none of them have found even a
trace of evidence for this biblical flood.
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your taglines!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 09 Feb 97 21:01:04
EID:d224 2249a820
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe8160
DR>You have run to arms of atheism in order to avoid
DR>submitting to the will of the Almighty.
MK>How silly of you. It is precisely the lack of
MK>any evidence that any "Almighty" [sic] exists
MK>that has led to my own atheism.
jg>Well, then, how 'bout "Partly mighty" rather than "Al-mighty?"
jg>:)
RS>Based on what?
Didn't see the little smiley face at the end of my comment,
huh?
jg>Out of curiosity, what kind of evidence would have to
jg>exist for it to constitute evidence for the existence
jg>of an "Almighty" variety of a God?
RS> Simple. The Bible is replete with stories of YHVH appearing
RS> to people. An ALMIGHTY Deity could appear to EVERYONE,
RS> simultaneously, and let them know that it exists. It would
RS> not be a chore to an all-mighty Deity, and it would be the
RS> best possible way of convincing everyone. If the Bible is
RS> true, then YHVH should be able to do it, since it did it in
RS> the past. There's only three reasons for why YHVH DOESN'T
RS> do it:
RS>a)YHVH CAN'T do it . . . ergo, YHVH is not all-mighty.
RS>b)YHVH DOESN'T want to do it . . . so why should we care
RS>about such an entity?
RS>c) YHVH DOESN'T exist.
I tend toward accepting choice "c" above.
jg>Certainly it would involve signs in the universe and
jg>this world that the Almighty One is in control of
jg>things.
RS>You think so?
Yes, if said Almighty One really is Almighty.
jg>Quite the opposite would seem to be the case most of
jg>the time, correct?
RS>"Quite the opposite," and "most of the time," Ken? Can you
RS>be any more ambiguous?
I have no idea who this "Ken" fellow is.
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: FUNDY SHUFFLE: Step 8
|Date: 09 Feb 97 21:05:06
EID:caca 2249a8a0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe8252
RS>I think Ken needs Hooked on Phonics . . . anyone want to
RS>chip in to get it for him and Staalin so that they can
RS>get some remedial reading?
MG>Well, Ken Wino hasn't shown his fundy ass in here for
MG>months. I guess he had to go to someother echo and tell
MG>them how he "kicked their asses in Holysmoke".
MG>The lad needs some self resepct, after all.
jg>Must've been an interesting fellow. I'm new here myself. Yet
jg>in the week or less I've read this echo I've seen quite a
jg>few messages referencing this person. What was he, some kind
jg>of radical "right" Fundi?
RS>He thought that twelve-year-old rape victims that got
RS>pregnant as a result of the rape were somehow asking for it.
RS>And if they aborted that zygote, then they should be
RS>executed. He also believed that Hitler was operating
RS>legally when he had the Jews slaughtered. And so on and so
RS>on. I guess you'd have to make your own mind up about how
RS>radical he was . . .
Very radical. I'd rather not have "friends" like that. A
woman should be able to choose herself what she does with
her body. Anything less is just plain immoral. I feel very
strongly about this issue. My sister aborted her baby by
choice and it was her right to do so. No one but no one
else had the right to make that choice for her.
jg>! Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550
RS>Hmmm . . . and I suppose you're no relation to Ken, eh?
RS>Even though you post from the same BBS?
I hope not! I wouldn't want to have anything to do with such
a person! Nor am I aware of his having called the same board
I do. Orange County, Calif. has a large population with fewer
and fewer bbs's every day. Everyone seems to be migrating to
the Internet newsgroups.
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Disk Full - Press F1 to belch.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 09 Feb 97 21:08:08
EID:9176 2249a900
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe8308
DR>If you are so set against the idea that any God exist
MK>Strawman. We are not "set against the idea that any God
MK>exist [sic]." You have yet to provide us with any reason
MK>MKto believe that your gods exist -- that's all.
jg>Even reasons to believe gods or any God exists would be
jg>a start. Could there be good reasons for either? Never
jg>mind answering the question whether "your gods" exist.
jg>Just start with gods or God generic.
RS>Isn't that what Mark said?
Not quite. He did use the delimiter "your" with "gods."
jg>* WR 1.33 # 618 * Dear Santa: Send me your list of naughty girls.
jg>Thanks.
jg>-!- Maximus/2 3.01
jg> ! Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550
RS>Interesting. Not only do you post from the same BBS as Ken
RS>Wiens, but you use the same mail reader as he does. What a
RS>coincidence, eh? };)
No. Wave Rider is a popular reader. Whoever that nut is I
want nothing to do with him. Anyone who would say the things
he says about abortion is a radical idiot.
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * As King Arthur said, some days it all seems so feudal.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Marygoround.
|Date: 09 Feb 97 21:12:10
EID:b2a8 2249a980
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 32fe83fa
pd>That was an event sure, but where did the event come
pd>from? Where is the cause of the Big Bang?
Jd>No one knows that yet...perhaps we may never know.
MG>The eternal hope of the fundy is "god may be around the
MG>next corner". It makes no difference to them that we have
MG>successfully removed god from almost every natural event
MG>that we know of. Lightening, thunder, earthquakes and all
MG>the rest are given simple natural explanations. but these
MG>guys still want to attribute it to a god.
MG>Some people never learn.
JG>Hmmm...Yes. Perhaps this is why they have retreated to the
JG>Ultimate Cause of the Big Bang type of argument.
RS>As opposed to Ken Wien's Uncaused Cause Theorum? };)
I have no idea. I don't know what that fellow believes. I
myself am agnostic leaning in the atheist direction.
RS>Got any more good ones you fake you?-- Ken Wiens, ex-college stude
As I said, I have no idea who that fellow is. It may well be he
calls the same board and uses the same reader. I don't know and
don't really care. As long as he doesn't push his radical fundy
crap on me I'll do ok. I'm certainly not going to switch boards
or readers just because he uses the same ones.
RS>... Of course I'm leading the witness. He's a sheep, after all . . .
RS>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
RS>--- Maximus 3.01
RS> * Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * I can't even *find* amok, let alone run one.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 10 Feb 97 13:42:38
EID:2989 224a6d40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ff262b
PID: GED3 2.5
I received my first order from Amazon.com today.
_The New Age: Notes of a Fringe Watcher_, _Weird Water & Fuzzy Logic: More
Notes of a Fringe Watcher_, and _Urantia: The Great Cult Mystery_, all by
Martin Gardner.
_Asimov's Guide to the Bible: The Old and New Testaments_, by Isaac Asimov.
If I disappear for a while, there is no need to alert my family. I will
be back soon.
BTW, if any of you ever decide to order from Amazon, go ahead and splurge
on 2nd Day Air. UPS Ground took 7 days to get the books to me.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: t-verse
|Date: 11 Feb 97 00:54:51
EID:b22c 224b06c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ffc40d
PID: GED3 2.5
I stumbled across a Samuel Johnson quote today that made me think of you.
I'm going to paraphrase it slightly, to make it fit the situation better,
but I'm sure you'll recognize it.
Your ideas are both good and original. But the parts
that are good are not original, and the parts that are
original are not good.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 11 Feb 97 00:58:19
EID:836f 224b0740
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ffc4d1
PID: GED3 2.5
08 Feb 97 16:58, Roger Hunter wrote to David Worrell:
JG>> That is one way to eliminate a possible Cause for the
JG>> Big Bang.
DW>> It has nothing to do with eliminating a cause. It simply *is*.
RH> Unfortunately, that sounds just like a fundy argument; "God just IS".
Then you missed the thrust of the statement. The above was not meant in
support of anything.
Goodman insinuated that the fact that time did not exist before the BB was
just a way to eliminate causality, when "eliminating" causality has nothing
to do with it.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 11 Feb 97 01:01:10
EID:b8d1 224b0820
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ffc4ee
PID: GED3 2.5
09 Feb 97 20:41, Alan Hess wrote to David Worrell:
KY>>> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things
KY>>> were a lot better.
DW>> Which time period, exactly, are you referring to?
AH> When blacks, women, Jews, gays, and other such inferiors, heathens and
AH> deviants were kept in their proper place, I suppose.
I know. I just wanted to see if he'd admit it.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: crackpots and concepts
|Date: 11 Feb 97 01:02:12
EID:34d2 224b0840
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ffc532
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2f750476
PID: GED3 2.5
08 Feb 97 22:30, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
RC>>> So go to your grave a futile crackpot, Mr. Dumpty.
JB>> I'll be in good company, Mr. King's man.
DW>> Do you suppose this might be an example of John's
DW>> alleged rapier wit?
RC> Brawley may simply be wishing for someone to put him together again.
I doubt that, since he doesn't realize he's cracked apart, yet.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: For your rude behavior?
|Date: 10 Feb 97 18:06:22
EID:f414 224a90c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 230b4af8
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fc26a8
On (08 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Marilyn Burge...
RS> I can readily see that. For what it's worth, you come off in
RS> the exchange as more humane. And I respect very much.
RS> I don't want to tread in areas that are still hurting, but
RS> how IS your sister? When I left a month ago, she'd just been
RS> diagnosed. I'm hoping I'm not putting my foot in things by
RS> asking like this.
Thank you for asking, and thanks also for your positive take on
the exchange.
My sister's doctor halted her radiation therapy for two weeks
until she could assess whether it was shrinking the tumors in her
lungs or not. It is, so the radiation resumes tomorrow for two
more weeks. The doctor thinks that'll buy her another couple of
years, but she doesn't know Eileen is still smoking, so who knows
what that'll do to her timeline.
Chris is back to work, and they have so far gone through (I think
it's three homecare people). I think Eileen wants Lou to do it
fulltime, but that's not in the cards. He doesn't mind going over
there in a pinch, or when they are between careworkers, but if
Eileen thinks she can get away with firing them one after another,
she's got another think coming; Lou has a life of his own to live,
and, apparently after talking with him about it, he intends to
live it, as best he can.
The doctor says the tumor in Eileen's brain is history, but it and
the surgery to remove it have left their mark on her memory and
cognition. Eileen will, in short, never be the same. She now has a
permanent catheter because everybody has given up on that battle,
she is still partially paralyzed on her right side, and she is
confined to a wheelchair. I think that pretty much accounts for
why she has little or no interest in giving up her smokes. Who
would want to live for ten more years in that condition? Not I,
that's for sure!
... Hell hath no fury like the lawyer of a woman scorned...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 09 Feb 97 20:34:30
EID:f94b 2249a440
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f57b8219
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fcc43e
On (08 Feb 97) Richard Smith wrote to Ed Mills...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Ed Mills said to Fredric Rice about Pedophile Christian cooks:
EM> I don't know about same-sex consent, but I can tell you
EM> that, as a child, I'd have gotten naked for Barbara
EM> Feldon any way, any where. :)
RS> Or Barbara Eden. Or Diana Rigg. Absolutely.
Who's Diana Rigg? (We only had one channel where I grew up.)
And, of course, never forget that adorable khaki-shorted National
Geographic honey, Jane Goodall. Or was it Goodale? Some of the
teachers at my grade school thought there was hope for me because
I always had several copies in my desk. Other kids spanked monkeys,
I was partial to chimps.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Panzer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 10 Feb 97 17:01:06
EID:aa2b 224a8820
MSGID: 1:3637/1.0 32ff9aa2
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 7b9e0c78
MB> Acts 26:14 states they all fell to the ground and did hear the voice.
MB> That should keep you busy for a while. I am compiling a list of biblical
MB> contradictions, inconsistencies and errors and so far
MB> I have 1,312 of them.
MB> I have probably only reached about 25% of what will be
MB> the final count. The
MB> bible is so untrustworthy as to be good for little more than a textbook
Marilyn: I love your stuff........is there any way I can get a copy of
the 1,312 that you have so far.......can you send me a disk or can I get
it via the internet........my E-mail adress is: jpanz@micropro.com.........I
can also send you a self addressed envelope if it takes that.......your
stuff is so good that I just have to get a copy to throw in the faces of
the Fundies here in the bible belt.............Pagan Panz
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: TIME Atheist Article
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:58:59
EID:f0c8 224b5f40
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 300b3312
CHRS: IBMPC 2
* Forwarded (from: INETMAIL) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd 1.10+.
* Originally from Brian Lynch (1:382/87) to terry liberty-parker (1:382/804).
* Original dated: Tue Feb 11, 11:56
From: Brian Lynch
Response to TIME Magazine article on the Murray-O'Hair's. The TIME
article was not very informative, and indicates a lazy, indifferent
staff of writers & editors who don't do much to investigate, and don't
check facts closely. Like most of their 'political' articles, the
one on the Murray-O'Hair's was short on analysis and full of "..he
said...she said..." quotes, making it sound more like the product
of a gossip-columnist.
-BL
Dear Editors,
Your article about Madalyn Murray-O'Hair and her family's disappearance
is
interesting, if only for its lateness. The financial matters you wrote
about were first brought to light in 1987 when, as the Treasurer of Society
of Separationists, Inc., I noticed serious financial irregularities, and
voiced
my concern to some members of the SOS Board that Madalyn O'Hair had
apparently been lying to the Internal Revenue Service (and her membership)
about the finances of her Atheist Corporations.
In early 1987, it was clear that millions of dollars were flowing through
accounts that were in Texas, Ontario, Saskatchewan, New Zewaland, and other
locations. Money from wills and estates which had been placed in Cayman
Island Banks, was being transferred to bank accounts in Switzerland. The
Murray-O'Hair family took lavish vacations which they called "business
trips" to Switzerland,
Egypt, and other nations where they met with Atheist authors, allegedly
to
negotiate book deals. One of the oddest "book deals" concerned Soledad
de'Montalvo Mielche(??spelling), a woman who was known for cookbooks, but
who was also an Atheist. It appeared then, and subsequent information given
to me has tended to confirm, that the European cookbook lady may have been
helping Madalyn O'Hair cook her financial books in the United States.
I was forced to leave American Atheists in 1987 when I began making
inquiries about the finances and was told to sign a Form-990 [the form sent
into the IRS by 501-c(3) corporations] which I suspected of containing false
financial information. Madalyn O'Hair was apparently unable to simply "let
me go", and filed a series of frivolous harrassment lawsuits, wherein she
went so far as to attempt to suborn purjured testimony, among other things.
As Madalyn fired lawyers and other people for not agreeing to do what was
clearly illegal, I got a steady stream of apologies and information.
By 1989, it was clear that American Atheists was not ever going to be a
viable Atheist organization, though it had apparently become a cash-rich
nest egg for Jon and Robin. There was never any question that Jon was a
thoroughly incompetent manager; unable to deal with personnel, suppliers,
customers, finance, strategy, policy, or the need to make decisions. Jon
had often talked of going to New Zealand, and discussed elaborate plans
for
closing down the Atheist GHQ from time to time. No one who ever worked
with
Jon ever considered him capable of running the organization without Madalyn.
Robin, while bright, was far too antisocial to ever work effectively with
people; as editor of the American Atheist magazine, she could not make
anything happen without Madalyn. So, it is no surprise to learn that Jon
&
Robin have recently been identified by people in New Zealand.
-Brian Lynch
P.S.: The cable TV program featuring Mrs. O'Hair, produced by American
Atheists in Austin, Texas from 1980 through 1995, was always called
"The American Atheist Forum". To my knowledge, it was never called
"One Healthy Project"--I don't know where that name came from in your
report. The current TV show (produced by Ellen Johnson in Staten
Island, NY) is called "The Atheist Viewpoint". The Radio program
ceased new program production in 1981, although an attempt was made
to revive it in 1986. That was known as "The American Atheist Radio
Series".
-Brian Lynch
---
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|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Sundance Waco Film
|Date: 11 Feb 97 12:17:24
EID:d96c 224b6220
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 300b331b
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32fe5266
CHRS: IBMPC 2
David Worrell wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
DW> 08 Feb 97 11:08, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP> * Forwarded (from: INETMAIL) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd
TP> 1.10+.
DW> Seen and TANKS lately?
You're welcome, always; of course!
Enjoy,
Terry
--- timEd 1.10+
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Child Killer
|Date: 11 Feb 97 12:28:44
EID:67b3 224b6380
MSGID: 1:229/622 330065fd
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 05 Feb 97 08:58:10 John Musselwhite wrote to Marilyn Burge...
JM> "God answers all prayers, but sometimes the answer is "no"."
Yeah, we seem to have heard that before. It would be more accurate if
you replaced the "sometimes" with an "always".
Your kindly god seems to particularly enjoy saying "no!" to pleading
children in the leukemia ward.
Why don't you worship Adolf Eichmann - he seems to have more compassion
and empathy than your god.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 08 Feb 97 21:05:12
EID:6faf 2248a8a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074db
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 16 Jan 97 15:55:52 Paul Davis wrote to Jan deBoer...
PD> On 6 Jan 97, Jan deBoer was discussing
PD> "Canadian Politics" with Judith Bandsma.
PD> Hi Jan :)
ML>> ... Although, any language where "Ook" is a real word is to be
JB>> Ik ook.
Jd> Eh?
PD> It's Dutch. Translates as: I also.
Ya, I knew that. I was pretending to be a Canadian by saying 'Eh'.
PD> Isn't "deBoer" a Dutch rooted name?
Ya, ya.
PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
A defrocked agnostic.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Keeping your cool
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:39:12
EID:f611 224b3ce0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074dc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 03 Feb 97 21:56:28 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
EM> Add a small, short-duty-cycle compressor to flash-chill the
EM> cavity with a blast from a small air cylinder?
Hmmm...sort of defeats the one moving part simplicity.
EM> Little Panaflo muffin fan off a junked whatever would be far more
EM> reliable, runs on 12v.
Good idea...filed for future reference. Do suspect that panaflow would
suck more milliamps than the original, though.
EM> I'd sure like to get my mitts on one of these Peltier devices. Do
The actual t/c block is only an inch square. Sandwiched between 2 LARGE
standard heat sinks. Koolatron used to sell the unit (t/c block w heat
sinking and fan) for those who built their own 'icebox'. Koolatron is In
Brantford. Do you have Internet access - they are on the Net, as are
their U.S. distributors....other makes, search under thermoelectric.
EM> you know what particular dissimilar metals are used for the
EM> thermocouple in this?
No. Although curious about the actual block, I ain't gonna rip the unit
apart to satisfy my curiousity ;-) .
I would imagine that they would have used whatever metals have the
largest heat transfer for minimum amps at the normal (32F to 100F) temp
range. t/c tables should provide that info....none here, unfortunately.
Given the size of the block, and the number of junctions needed, they
must be tiny. Current through dissimilar metals usually means trouble,
i.e. corrosion. I just wonder if junctions will eventually fail.
Will prayer delay that? [;->
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 08 Feb 97 21:30:54
EID:e7e2 2248abc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074dd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 16 Jan 97 15:56:00 Paul Davis wrote to Jan deBoer...
PD> What you state may be precisely true for each and every
PD> circumstance you describe above, but maybe only for that actual
PD> event itself. What have you got to say about the results of the
PD> experiment itself?
Experiment?....I though it was a contest with a Peter Popof prayer
cloth as the consolation prize.
PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
The ULC anti-Pope.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 08 Feb 97 21:35:08
EID:3daa 2248ac60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074de
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 04 Feb 97 07:19:08 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
MB> All the tramps he had abused over the years
MB> caught freight trains to Portland to attend his funeral. He had
MB> the biggest turnout of his "clients" anybody had ever seen.
MB> They wanted to make damned good and sure he was dead.
Sounds like a good Irish wake!
Jd> I'm going to change a toilet in the house...I think the old one
Jd> would make a neat tombstone.
MB> Does it flush? I'd like to make a contribution, if it does.
[;-)
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 08 Feb 97 21:39:02
EID:3daa 2248ace0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074df
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 04 Feb 97 06:13:36 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
MB> The guy you described sounds more like a narcissistic
MB> personality to me. Sociopaths tell you exacly what you want to
MB> hear, because they might want something of your next week; the
MB> guy you described never kissed anybody's ass in his life to get
MB> what he wanted, and was damned proud of it.
Oh he could act human when it was convenient - but his idea of gratitude
was to drop his pants and dump on you.
My understanding of the psychopathic personality is a total lack of
empathy, totally self-centred, and the ability to lie and deceive
openly without the slightest embarrassment - like the fundys here.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Silicone vinegar
|Date: 08 Feb 97 21:44:02
EID:6375 2248ad80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 03 Feb 97 22:41:24 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Will have to hook a megger to some cured RTV some time, and see,
Jd> although some fundy family jewels would be more fun....
EM> A meg of what... volts?
Megger - insulation tester. Old models powered by hand-crank telephone
generator, up to 500 volts. Transistorized versions nowadays. Standard
equipment in every South/Central American police station.
Live better electrically, Ronnie Reagen used to say.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Hades Retirment Villa
|Date: 09 Feb 97 16:55:52
EID:0e69 224986e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 07 Feb 97 16:27:00 Roger Hunter wrote to Ronald Vass...
-=> Quoting Ronald Vass to Al Schroeder <=-
RV> I tried, like anything else in this world, money and power, would of
RV> got the job done. To be a fairly good human doesn't count for shit.
RH> You don't buy Pampers with "good", Ron. I was a bit surprised how
RH> financial institutions cooled toward me when I retired and my
RH> income dropped by 1/3.
Guess I retired from the wrong place...my income dropped by 2/3 when I
retired! I'll never be in a new car showroom again as anything but a
gawker.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Uncle Theresa
|Date: 09 Feb 97 17:02:52
EID:a490 22498840
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 06 Feb 97 19:37:28 Don Martin wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Speak for yuorself, but I'm not. I've lived an exemplary life. Sure,
I
Jd> masturbated when I was a kid, but who doesn't? Hell, I'll bet I've
Jd> been a nicer guy than even Jesus himself. He didn't give my niece a
Jd> typewriter for college.
DM> A TYPEwriter!??!! How quaint. A non-sinner would have
DM> ponied up a second-hand 286 with dot matrix printer for the
DM> same money.
Er, not quite...the 286 hadn't been invented yet!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Fundy School
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:41:22
EID:b098 224b3d20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 10:13:34 Marilyn Burge wrote to Dan Ceppa...
MB> How can anybody in this day and age actually take such nonsense
MB> seriously?
MB> Are our public schools actually doing that poor a job?
Nah....the fundy kids come home and laugh at the parents. That's why
they want a 'voucher' system...so they can brainwash the kids down to
their level in Fundy Schools.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 10 Feb 97 07:44:38
EID:ce2c 224a3d80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 01:32:00 Tom Huber wrote to Richard Smith...
TH> Normally, when matters of this nature are made known to the
TH> Mormon leaders, the person seldom remains a member for long. Even
TH> conviction of crimes such as fraud will result in a person's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
TH> excommunication from the Mormon church.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ROTFL!!! *If* this were true, there wouldn't _be_ any Mormon leaders!
Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 10 Feb 97 18:48:02
EID:966d 224a9600
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Rod Swift <=-
RS> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
KY> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the color of their
KY> skin, while gays do choose their sexual orientation.
So, you're _for_ black people, but against black skin?
.JdB
... I'd rather ride the Wave wsOMR way!
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 18:50:24
EID:711c 224a9640
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DW> 07 Feb 97 00:13, Ken Young wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DC>> Too bad that your little books says you are wrong. It says
DC>> that your god created _everything_.
KY> Everything natural, and I do not think that hunger was naturally
KY> intended.
Babies are born _naturally athiest_ [if they weren't, Sunday Schools
wouldn't be becessary].
So, Ken, why have you chosen the UNNNATURAL religious lifestyle?
Shouldn't you follow god's NATURAL atheist intention?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: DENSA Membership Test
|Date: 10 Feb 97 18:57:24
EID:8035 224a9720
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 12:53:50 Ken Young wrote to Dan Ceppa...
-> On 04 Feb 97 19:52:28, Ken Young got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> And the REASON your kind, loving, fatherly god gives leukemia to
Jd> innocent children is?
KY> I will answer that, as soon as you can prove to me that God has ever
KY> given leukemia to anyone..
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything. Therefore,
DC> he is responsible for the fact that children get leukemia.
KY> God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and
KY> create our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create
KY> leukemia, but more than likely, mankind did.
Hmmm..."God created everything....God did not create leukemia".
I don't suppose you see any contradiction there?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Weather Wisdom 666
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:06:42
EID:6b8e 224a98c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074e9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DW> 07 Feb 97 00:24, Ken Young wrote to Dave Hamilton:
KY>>> Besides, with how we have been screwing up with
KY>>> the atmosphere, it is
KY>>> a wonder the weather isn't more screwed up. Anyway, God lets
KY>>> these happen, He doesn't cause them.
Parotting Pat Robertson? Can you perceive 'original thought'?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Re: FUNDIES
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:24:44
EID:877a 224a9b00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074ea
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting David Ragland to David Worrell <=-
DR> Why am I here? Glad you asked, smarty...
The condom broke?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Re: FUNDIES
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:26:02
EID:877a 224a9b40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074eb
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting David Ragland to David Worrell <=-
DR> Why am I here? Glad you asked, smarty...
Your sister replaced your mother's pills with aspirin?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:29:12
EID:1462 224a9ba0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074ec
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 22:30:06 ROBERT CURRY wrote to ROGER HUNTER...
RC> This is my week for creating handy acronyms. I got a good start
RC> quite by accident while speaking to the Humanists of Florida
RC> statewide board of directors meeting yesterday. Now I can hardly
RC> wait for the upcoming Humanist/Atheist convention!
RC> I am looking forward to the wonderful and much anticipated fun.
Is your roster of "where is Madalyn O'Hair" jokes ready?
.JDb
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Original Thoughtsin
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:56:40
EID:1112 224a9f00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074ed
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Thursday February 06 1997 09:14, David Ragland wrote to David
Worrell:
DW>> If you God was not created by an intelligent source then explain
DW>> why He has information, David?
DR> Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
DR> ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to
DR> come, the Almighty.
GUFFAW! How _original_! Can't compose a reply? The fundy parrot
sqwuaks the dogma his mental masters have implanated in his unicellular
brain.........
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:43:28
EID:075b 224b3d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074ee
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 07:30:34 Marilyn Burge wrote to J.J. Hitt...
Jd> Worked with a JW who used to make sure to be noticed
Jd> reading his copies of AWAKE! (really broke me up when we
Jd> were on night shift!) during coffee breaks.
JH> I suspect they may be REQUIRED to do that.
MB> These people are beyond amazing to me. We have one at work
MB> that has a Ph.D. I asked him one time why JW's don't cele-
MB> brate birthdays. He said there were two basic reasons, one
MB> that he thought rather simplistic, but that he'd give me
MB> both anyway: 1) there is no record of Jesus celebrating
MB> his birthday in the Bible, so JW's don't celebrate it,
MB> either,
There's no record of Jesus watching TV or driving a car, either, but
these dipshits don't having qualms about doing that.
MB> and 2) John the Baptist lost his head at a birthday
MB> party, so they regard them as evil things.
I think the _real_ reason is the sadistic pleasure they get from denying
such little pleasures to their children. Imagine how the kids feel when
their classmates discuss such things.
MB> This guy's a PH.D! fer crissake!
Is that Piled Higher & Deeper, or Professional Highway Driver?
Actually, that's highly unusual - JW's discourage post-secondary
education...too risky, the recipient's brain might be jarred into
functioning enough to see through the BS.
Are you sure the PhD isn't in bible study?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:14:44
EID:1e7f 224ab1c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074ef
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 04:09:54 Mark O'Neill wrote to All...
MO> While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as
MO> lightning conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this
MO> about most Xians only "iffy"
KY> WHat's this? The majority?!? Where do you come up with this stuff,
KY> anyway? I believe the majority of people with Judeo Christian beliefs
KY> consider themselves Protestants.
MO> _ _ ___ _
|_) / \ | |_ | | | |
| \ \_/ | | |_ o o o
MO> Fuck me dead. They're really out there huh? A typical response
MO> from a typical christian. Hmm... Anyone want to lay odds that Ken
MO> is Protestant?
The sobering thought is that this may still be an example of average
inyelligence AND allowed to vote!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Communion Truth serum?
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:44:54
EID:ebf9 224b3d80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 12:16:28 Damien Wellman wrote to Dave Hamilton...
DW> Reminds me of a novel I read the other day, "The Truth Machine".
DW> It's about a guy who invents a Truth Machine that detects lying.
DW> The Machine quickly becomes adopted by society and eventually
DW> truthfulness becomes the norm, resulting in the near-elimination
DW> of bullshitting.
There actually was such a machine marketed a few years back.
Called the "Voice Stress Analyzer", it supposedly detected stress
patterns in the voice of the party on the other end of your phone
conversation, enabling you to determine if you were being lied to.
I've always wondered how clergy would fare on a lie dtector, if
questioned about their faith. Is a pathological (socipathic) liar able
to beat a lie detector?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: How DARE you! SLAP!
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:23:20
EID:d1a1 224ab2e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 01:36:00 Ronald Vass wrote to Paul Davis...
RV> If the truth isn't being look for, then they are lieing to
RV> themselfs. If a reglion is strong in it's facts, there should be
RV> no fear in any question. If it can't stand to be question, like
RV> life, it's likely a lie being hidden.
How DARE you, Sir! GOD is _NOT_ to be questioned, or tested.
You are to meekly and humbly submit to god's will, as told to you by
your earthly masters. So there.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, or in the motel room
with the hooker.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: NDE'S AND IGNORANT ID
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:34:28
EID:d198 224ab440
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 01:16:00 Ronald Vass wrote to Roger Hunter...
RV> Dieing can be fun/nice, it's the comeing back that hurts. The
RV> pain, returns.
No wonder JeeZeus didn't come back!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:36:18
EID:8662 224ab480
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 17:21:10 Dan Ceppa wrote to Martin Goldberg...
DC> They probably sent their leftovers to my old freshman dining hall
DC> . I still have a pair of sandals made out of one of their steaks.
Twenty minutes in a pressure cooker'l turn them sandals back into
steaks.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: preacher with a mission
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:39:48
EID:ee9f 224ab4e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DW> A more appropriate question for you to ask is
DW> why are *you* here?
DR> Why am I here? Glad you asked, smarty...
DR> Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and
DR> preach the gospel to every creature.
That's your problem....you're trying to preach to intelligent people
here. You want 'creatures' ...look in the phone
directory under "State Mental Institution", or any Church listing with
the word 'fundamentalist' in it.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:44
EID:ee81 224ab580
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 15:37:54 Ken Young wrote to Ed Mills...
KY> Well, I never would buy P&G products.. One, because they have
KY> been involved in some things I couldn't be for, and two, because
KY> I don't like any of the products anyway.
If you never buy them, how do you know you don't like them....did you
steal them?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:50:36
EID:4f07 224ab640
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
TOP SECRET! For your eyes only!
Name Location Alignment In the
Jan deBoer Oshawa, Ont. Defrocked Agnostic 3 years
Canada Intermittent
at whim of Xtian
Sysops
Regards,
JdB.
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Stuph like that
|Date: 10 Feb 97 23:03:24
EID:513b 224ab860
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> fundy. How do I even manage to write my responses? I must have
DR> one of you brilliant atheists here with me; hired to structure
DR> sentences and operate my computer and real hard stuff like that,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
{barf deletia}
DR> like I did in '93. You people are truly too much. :I Why do you
DR> automatically assume Christians are possessed of torpid
DR> intellect. It's because of that "irrational stuff" call faith,
DR> right?
No, it's because slack-jawed, vacant look, tatooed morons [as seen daily
on Heraldo] always use the phrase "and stuff like that".
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Suppressing the past
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:47:42
EID:8d10 224b3de0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330074f8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 01:19:50 Dan Ceppa wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> material, one being a collection of such christian pro-slavery
Jd> material, titled "A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin." You'll NEVER find THAT
Jd> in your library!
DC> I've never heard of it! Is it still in print, somewhere?
Most unlikely. I've yet to locate a copy. From the Black History
collection at Toronto Public library, Parkdale branch, I did borrow a
two volume 'historical novel' by Stowe - the title escapes me at the
moment - which described christian 'camp meetings', which included much
drunkeness, hunting down runaways, and the usual xtian brutality.
DC> And,
DC> from the rest of your post on finding library material, a
DC> very safe place?
I don't quite understand this.
.JdB
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 11 Feb 97 12:37:32
EID:c58a 224b64a0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330074df
MSGID: 1:229/622 33006a1b
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Jan deBoer to Marilyn Burge:
Jd> My understanding of
Jd> the psychopathic personality is a total lack of empathy, totally
Jd> self-centred, and the ability to lie and deceive openly without the
Jd> slightest embarrassment - like the fundys here.
There are some excellent examples of sociopathic (=psychopathic)
disorder in the DSM casebook that serve to isolate the symptomology
from related disorders such as narccisistic disorder.
Sociopaths have a high degree of empathy; what they lack is social
conscience. The see other people as tools to be used to get what
they want, or obstacles in the way. Their empathy allows them to
be utterly charming when it serves them. No crimes against society
are beyond them, but they are extremely intelligent and rarely
get caught.
Oddly, they seem to develop a conscience and recover from the
disorder spontaneously in the mid 50's. There is a significant
effect for this as it has been observed among those incarcerated.
It is presumed that similar recovery occurs among those on the
loose.
Hitler is considered to have been a sociopath operating openly once
he achieved enough power to control the system in which he
lived.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Communion Truth serum?
|Date: 11 Feb 97 12:51:48
EID:413e 224b6660
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330074f0
MSGID: 1:229/622 33006bbb
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Jd> There actually was such a machine marketed a few years back.
Jd> Called the "Voice Stress Analyzer", it supposedly detected stress
Jd> patterns in the voice of the party on the other end of your phone
Jd> conversation, enabling you to determine if you were being lied to.
Oh, I remember that. Didn't do too well. Maybe people just *want*
to be lied to.
Jd> I've always wondered how clergy would fare on a lie dtector, if
Jd> questioned about their faith.
My guess is that they would register.
Jd> Is a pathological (socipathic) liar
Jd> able to beat a lie detector?
Without even thinking about it.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 10 Feb 97 08:20:45
EID:8448 224a4280
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32ff0ee7
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 2247854d
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Mark Kimes said this about Direct Dialling
G'day Mark,
MK> No. BTW, he claims he'll be dropping into #holysmoke soon (I invited
MK> him).
What's the address mate? The server's been down at neato.us.ca.another.net
for a couple of days. I assume I'm using the correct address?
/\\ark...
... "Keep this up and the squirrels will bury your head somewhere."(MASH)
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child for birth control
|Date: 11 Feb 97 08:02:34
EID:671d 224b4040
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33004ac2
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32fac0da
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Exemplifying examples
KY> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the color of their
KY> skin, while gays do choose their sexual orientation.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're a born fuckin' idiot.
Gays no more "choose" their sexual orientation any more than anybody else.
FWIW, you naive git, I work with a gay man. A hell of a nice bloke that'd
do anything for anybody, but I digress. When he told me he was gay some
six months ago I think he was a little shocked over my lack of reaction,
being more used to the contempt small-minded individuals, like yourself,
has for the gay community. Many months and many beers later I have more
of an understanding of gays and lesbians than you'll ever have by actually
discussing indepth "what makes a person gay." (Using that keen intellect
of yours you've most likely worked out by now that I am not gay).
He tried unsuccessfully to conform to what was "proper" for many years.
In the end he followed what was "proper" for him and announced his
sexuality. He didn't choose to be gay but was born that way having no
more control over his sexual preference than you do. (You getting all
this, Ken?) As he was born gay, your god is solely responsible for the way
he is. Indeed, the way we all are. Stick with religion, Ken. Even
though you have no fuckin' idea of what you're talking about, you know
three parts of fuckall when it comes to discoursing on the subject of
homosexuality. Do us all a favour next time you wish to share your
baseless statements with the world and just shut the fuck up.
/\\ark...
... "Adherents of my religion don't all believe the same thing," Ken decreed
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Re: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 20:26:43
EID:058f 2249a340
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 750c2732
REPLY: 1:383/6293 32EDEEEE
MG>> Problem is, you forgot to offer your evidence that god
MG>> exists. Do you have any. Even the smallest scrap of non
MG>> biblical evidence would be appreciated.
MG>>
DG> OK. I'll try to humor you. Any student of philosophy knows
DG> of the works of Socrates, right? He and many other classical
DG> philosophers realized and believed that a God exists. These
DG> are the same philosophers whom most atheists will herald and
DG> praise as great men of understanding. (Granted, Socrates did
DG> not know of the God of Israel.)
DG> Let's hear YOUR evidence that God does not exist.
This is not evidence. This is another in a long string of fundy Wild Assed
Guesses . Maybe some we should all be conservative or republican just
because there are many of each in congress.
Your "logic" has this major flaw. It is not evidence...it is just something
that you want to use as evidence. Now, if you could get a Polaroid, THAT
would be evidence.
As far as your deamnd for evidence that there is no god, go back to your
phiosophers and ask them how one proves a negative statement.
You have made outrageous claims about a supernatural being. Give us evidence
for them.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 09 Feb 97 20:30:24
EID:e5de 2249a3c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 750c29db
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 2247854d
MK> No. BTW, he claims he'll be dropping into #holysmoke soon (I
MK> invited him).
You got the url for Prewett's Rant? I couldn't find anything on search
engines.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:05:55
EID:feda 224a98a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75189415
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32f60953
DM> I have no trouble eating quadropeds and have even
DM> managed a few gastropods in galic butter. So far, though, no
DM> hex or greater pods have journeyed down my gullet with my
DM> knowledge (though I do not doubt a few have snuck in--just
DM> breathing in Alaska was sometimes enough for your daily
DM> protein intake on mosquitos alone).
What kind of wine do you drink with horse? Pouilly Fuisse?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:07:08
EID:5057 224a98e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 751895dc
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32fc9a84
SQ> I just saw something while watching "Unsolved Mysteries" about
SQ> dogs sniffing out melanoma. You heard about this one yet?
File it under "unproven".
The only thing that show is good for is a few laughs.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:08:08
EID:aab1 224a9900
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75189cba
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32fabcf6
KY> Okay, let's start with people have come back and told what they
KY> saw, some from either side.. Also, and this is not proof, but
KY> rather an interesting possibility, there have been many to
KY> say they heard torturous screams of agony when they dug too
KY> deep in the earth.. Now, if that is so, could it be Hell?
KY> If not, what are those sounds coming from?
Holy Shit, Junior....do you believe EVERYTHING you hear?
Go out and dig me a really deep hole and let me know what sounds you hear.
What ever youmay have heard is false. Do not believe that you can dig six
feet down and hear sould from hell.
When you are told something like this in the future, say to yourself "Do
I believe in pink and purprle spotted hippos? Is this just as believable."
In other words, try to do your thinking with some discrimination.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:13:02
EID:13c2 224a99a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518a45f
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32ef8a78
MG>> I hope that Little Caesar's never opens a cathouse.
DM> Not even for the $9.95 Blow Job Blow Job?
I suppose. But only if they can deliver it.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:14:10
EID:01fd 224a99c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518a792
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32f493ee
DM> Ol' Jelly Roll gets through to you, does he?
When he presents, as his evidence for god, the factoid about folks digging
in the earth and hearing screams from hell, he gets to me.
This is one of the dumbest fundies in a long time.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: HATEFUL BILL WOLF!
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:21:15
EID:35dc 224a9aa0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518b667
BW> Hardly... I'm a Saganist.
Tell us how Sagan was a creationist again.
Liar.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:23:24
EID:a49e 224a9ae0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518c42d
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32fdeea5
DM> One wonders what a "_nice_ discussion" consists of, and why
DM> anyone in his right mind should want to have such a thing with a
DM> Ron Stringfellow wannabe.
No need to wonder. I am required to agree with his every thought.
MG>> Now you wnat to back out, knowing that you will be made to
MG>> look like a bigger fool than you already have been.
DM> In _Let the Sea Make a Noise_, Macdougall makes the point
DM> that Japan was so bogged down in China that it was easier for
DM> them to bomb Pearl Harbor than to admit defeat and pull out.
DM> Human psychology works in mysterious ways its wonders to
DM> perform.
It's just like the morons that show up here with the tales of "leading scientists
tell us....". They doin't know what they are talking about. Their evidence
comes from the mount or at worst their mother's bedtime stories. The human
mind can indeed be moved to believe some very strange things and can be
made to believe in some very strange ways.
DR>> You have the freedom to choose what you
DR>> want to believe.
DM> _free_ to believe it. Wonderful. I am free to believe that
DM> Cindy Crawford will come to my house to cheer an old man's
DM> sunset years, too, no doubt.
How will she do that? Read you the bible? Belief is such a wonderful thing.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:27:53
EID:f774 224a9b60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518c5d7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32fd2b82
DC>> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some things
DC>> that no one should have to stomach.
MG>> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
Another high liver, I see.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 19:29:02
EID:57c9 224a9ba0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7518ceed
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32fe8311
SQ> God's got a lot of 'splainin' to do when it comes to allowing a
SQ> mother to kill her children.
Just repeat after me in a high whiney voice "Ooooohhhhhhhh....it's free
will."
MG>> rather see her spend the rest of her life (and she's not yet
MG>> 30) cleaning bedpans in an AIDS ward.
SQ> I want to see O.J. Simpson get the same sentence that she got.
OJ is going to get worse than death. No one will touch the wife beter with
a ten foot pole. No more running through airports for money or appearing
on comedy or late night tv shows. The public wants him offed and the way
to do it is to put him somewhere where no one else will ever hear a peep
out of him.
In some years, we'll here a news story that he died and many will gather
to spit on his grave.
It's a just punishment.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: E, F and G Mail!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 20:22:50
EID:f075 224ba2c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300d531
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies February 11 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad MARTY LEIPZIG:
ML>> MLeipzig@AOL.com *OR* leipzig.m%6230001@mcimail.com
DR> That must be why neither work. :-)
I'm getting mail from him from the America Ondrugs account. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 13 Feb 97 21:56:40
EID:87bf 224daf14
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1615d975
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 34d83d26
PID: FM 2.02
AS> No, Lynda. I thought God saves the innocents long before I
AS> met you. Now, if you had asked whether it JUSTIFIES the
AS> death...which Roger and others are trying to make it sound
AS> like it does...I would answer--and am answering--a resounding
AS> NO!!
mb> Nobody's trying to justify a parent killing his or her child so it
mb> will go to Heaven. What we are saying is that if you really,
mb> really believed what you claim, you'd WANT to kill your children
mb> rather than allow them the greater likelihood of them spending
mb> eternity in Hell rather than in Heaven.
I can't believe there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who actually
believe what Al's pretending to believe. This belief in the fictional construct
called "sin" is giving people like Al and excuse to either murder outright
or justify a tyranny as "better in the long run."
Man, what evil.
---
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Profanity' bullshit
|Date: 11 Feb 97 20:55:50
EID:e970 224ba6e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300ddb4
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies February 11 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad DAVID RAGLAND:
DR0>> I realize that you may not care what a stupid,
DR0>> backwards, archaic-minded, sexist fundy like me
DR0>> thinks, but I am not alone.
In my opinion, he's right: I could care less what a stupid, backwards,
archaic-minded, sexist fundy like Ragland thinks. What he and his club
members DO, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. He can
think that the world was created out of Kleenex for all I care.
DR0>> This is the case with men both inside and outside the ranks of
DR0>> fundyhood, Ma'am. Any "decent" man feels this way.
Feels -what- way? All tingly inside? Like I want to procreate? What?
DR0>> That just about any man views a gutter-mouthed
DR0>> female as being less than virtuous.
What defines "virtuous?" Is a gutter-mouthed female different from a gutter-mouthed
male?
DR> I trust a "gutter-mouthed female" far more than I would
DR> trust a stupid, backwards, archaic-minded, sexist fundy
DR> like yourself.
"He's a sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical bigot."
-- Lily Tomlin "9 to 5"
DR> I respect, admire, and am attracted to
DR> women who say what they damn well feel like, instead of
DR> playing arbitrary roles that stupid women-hatting shits
DR> like yourself try to force them to accept.
Do I need to dig up that quote from Cardinal Giuseppi Siri, where he indicated
that he was against women's wearing of trousers because they would then
forget their purpose in life?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 11 Feb 97 20:59:44
EID:4a0c 224ba760
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300dde2
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies February 11 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad DAVID RAGLAND:
DR0>> Sure it does. It requires _faith_ to contend that _NO_
DR0>> God[sic] exists.
So, if he asserts that Dopefish does not exist, which faith is he practicing?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 10 Feb 97 07:51:01
EID:d15a 224a3e60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff2c47
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32fca9d5
David Worrell said "Fundies" to David Ragland, adding:
DW>> Should people who believe in freedom over fascism not confront
DW>> fascists?
DR> Yes fascists should be confronted. Christians should be confronted
DR> too. But the difference in the two defines how to confront both. To
DR> elucidate, we mean _you_ no harm so...
DW> Fascism is fascism, David, no matter if it is cloaked in swastikas or
DW> crosses.
FYI the German word for swastika is "Hagenkreuz" (Crook'd
Cross). The word "swastika" is from the Sanskrit for a sign of
blessing (when the crooks go counterclockwise). Hitler's went
clockwise.
DR> Why am I here? Glad you asked, smarty...
DW> I didn't ask, shithead. I said it was a question you should ask
DW> yourself.
DW> I know why you're here. Like most of the fundies that wander
DW> through, you're here to collect martyr points.
With Fido apparently back in circulation, I expect he is going
to get a whole lot of 'em, too! I hereby nominate him for the Ron
Stringfellow Lookalike Conest.
Any seconds?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Liars fer Jesus
|Date: 10 Feb 97 07:59:50
EID:5f29 224a3f60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff2c48
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32fcaac6
David Worrell said "Liars fer Jesus" to Don Martin, adding:
DW>> Prewett's gonna need a bigger house.
DW>> I wonder if undead Presidents still receive Secret Service
DW>> protection.
DM> They don't need it. J. Edgar Hoover is down there, too.
DW> Hmmm... I wonder what Marilyn Monroe is doing these days?
Prewett's crawlspace contains many mansions.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 10 Feb 97 08:28:50
EID:b29c 224a4380
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff2c49
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 6a4de12f
Marilyn Burge said "JeHoover's Witnesses" to J.J. Hitt, adding:
Jd> Worked with a JW who used to make sure to be noticed
Jd> reading his copies of AWAKE! (really broke me up when we
Jd> were on night shift!) during coffee breaks.
JH> I suspect they may be REQUIRED to do that.
MB>
MB> These people are beyond amazing to me. We have one at work
MB> that has a Ph.D. I asked him one time why JW's don't cele-
MB> brate birthdays. He said there were two basic reasons, one
MB> that he thought rather simplistic, but that he'd give me
MB> both anyway: 1) there is no record of Jesus celebrating
MB> his birthday in the Bible, so JW's don't celebrate it,
MB> either, and 2) John the Baptist lost his head at a birthday
MB> party, so they regard them as evil things.
MB>
MB> This guy's a PH.D! fer crissake!
Much depends upon what he has his PhD _in_. I'll lay odds it is
in education and not in physics. Could you find out for us, please?
(of course, he could be an English major, too: about half of them
are delusional.) This isn't your fundy friend, is it? He seems saner
than that in your other posts.
Later, you say to Robert Curry:
KY> Maybe if we came back to God, crops would do better..
RC> No one could possibly be this stupid! LOL!
MB>
MB> Sure, you mock him. But, have you TRIED IT?!
This reminds me of the frantic efforts of peasants in Europe
during bad years, clear into the 19th century: when times were hard,
good Christians were horrified to discover farm couples sneaking
into the church at night to have a good shag upon the altar. The
good (middle-class) Christians were unaware that the churches were,
for the most part, built upon pagan sites where a hump on the altar
was what one did when the gods were stingy with rain. It was
modelling behavior of fertility. Not that the peasants understood
all this, but part of the "wisdom" they passed down from generation
to generation was that when things got rough, THAT was what you had
to do, and THERE was where you did it. It took industrialization and
conversion to the proletariat, apparently, to obliterate this
memory.
Perhaps Ol' Jellyroll is an unreconstructed peasant? And
certainly, Marse Robert would be none the worse for a good roll on
the altarcloth.
Looking forward to a bounteous harvest in Florida, I am,
Yr very Obdt. & Humb. Serv. to Command,
Don (parenthetical sillies--they're not just for Aussies any more!)
Martin
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 10 Feb 97 08:31:06
EID:10b4 224a43e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff2c4a
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 a89b9a89
Marilyn Burge said "Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA" to Dave Hamilton,
adding:
DH> I personally don't accept claims that either home schooling
DH> or parochial schooling comes even close to matching the
DH> standards of the pathetic public systems. If you have any
DH> evidence to the contrary, I'll be happy to hear it.
MB> I suspect part of the reason why kids who go to parochial schools
MB> do so well is that their parents have to make sacrifices in order
MB> for them to attend. Given that, they are more inclined to see to
MB> it that the kid buckles down and learns something to justify that
MB> added family expense. Also, the fact that the parents are willing
MB> to put out money for the kids' educations right from the get-go
MB> tells us that the parents place a high value on education, which
MB> is known to help kids in their attitude toward school and
MB> learning. That is also the suspected reason why people of oriental
MB> extraction do so much better in school that kids of european
MB> descent: the parents value education and insist the kid take
MB> school very, very seriously.
To this I agree and would add that Catholic schools are not as
given to Educational fads as are public schools. They have nuns
instead, and the nuns know (absolutely!) that education is about
drilling their charges relentlessly in the "basics" (alphabets,
multiplication tables, grammar rules and the like). They practice,
in short, something regarded as anathema by our sappy schools of fad
education: rote learning.
As it happens, the human brain at one stage of its development
(from about 3 to 10 years, if memory serves) is particularly well
adapted to rote learning. After all, that is the time when kids have
to get the bulk of the vocabluary of their native language under
their belts: no matter what the language, that is a fairly huge load
of stuff to retain and keep straight. For the first 4-5 years of
schooling, then, what the nuns do is ideally suited to the way the
kids are wired to learn, so the process is more effective than what
goes on in the "feel-good" classrooms of public schools.
That same hard-wired brain also equips kids to learn _any_
human language without foreign accent, an ability we lose at about
age ten, and it makes them ideal subjects for indoctrination.
TANSTAAFL.
MB> Of course, another reason why parochial school kids do so well is
MB> because the parochial school have the luxury of picking and
MB> choosing what kids will attend, which automatically eliminates
MB> those kids who would be a problem to them, such as kids who need
MB> special education, kids from gangs, etc.
To this I would add the enormous advantage enjoyed by private
schools of being able to "fire" students who do not conform to their
rules. Public schools generally can only suspend, no matter how
heinous the behavior, and generally must take the little miscreants
back after some stretch of time until the kids pass the magic age
when compulsory education laws no longer apply to them. Private
schools can and do expell, permanently, and because they have this
power, they do not have to exercise it very often. When the kids
understand that they have no choice but do the work or leave
forever, then tend to do the work.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 10 Feb 97 09:15:26
EID:3dab 224a49e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff47a5
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32fcbc36
Ol' Jellyroll said "Cracker Barrel Boycot" to Mark Kimes, adding:
HP>> How could he? Drugs he could probably find, but it's
HP>> your god, and you can't even produce him to be tried. :-)
KY> Don't need to.. He is right here.
MK> Nice claim, but I can't see any reason to believe it's anything
MK> more than a lie or a hallucination on your part. The statement
MK> stands: You can't seem to produce your gods to be tried, ergo
MK> they cannot be compared to drugs.
KY> Why must it be a lie or hallucination? Just because you cannot
KY> see Him? You can't see me either, but you know I exist.
It remains a lie or a hallucination in the eyes of others until
you provide some verifyable evidence for its existence. We accept
_your_ existence (a mundane claim, at best) on the basis of the
evidence of your posts. Your extraordinary claim of the existence of
your amazing technicolor imaginary superfriend (ATIS) as anything
more than a product of human imagination would be greatly helped by
his posting here personally (from an area and node previously unkown
to Fido--we have had a lot of counterfeits in the past from the
known ones), even though that would still be pretty mundane evidence
and insufficient to support an extraordinary claim.
KY> And no reason? I tend to think that just about everything in
KY> existence(us, the earth, etc.) is good reason to believe.
Believe in what? Your ATIS? But these are _very_ mundane things,
for which claims of extraordinary origin are lopped off by Ockham's
Razor.
Later, you say to Dan Ceppa:
Jd> And the REASON your kind, loving, fatherly god gives leukemia
Jd> to innocent children is?
KY> I will answer that, as soon as you can prove to me that God has
KY> ever given leukemia to anyone..
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything.
DC> Therefore, he is responsible for the fact that children get
DC> leukemia.
KY> God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and
KY> create our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create
KY> leukemia, but more than likely, mankind did.
Here is an interesting positive assertion, and a nice mundane
one, too: "mankind created leukemia." Please be so good as to detail
how we did that (for if we know what steps mankind took to _create_
the disease, we should be able to retroengineer a cure for it). In
other words, I ask for evidence of your assertion, and be advised
that bullshit like "we didn't pray enough" is not specific enough to
serve.
This really seems to be your day for making positive mundane
assertions! Later you say to Ed Mills:
KY> Well, I never would buy P&G products.. One, because they have
KY> been involved in some things I couldn't be for,
You are entirely within your rights to avoid the products of
anyone you wish, but would you be so kind as to tell us precisely
what "things" Proctor and Gamble has "been involved in" that you
could not be for? Please provide references for the corporate
activities you cite.
Later still, you say to David Ragland:
KY> Different people have their own form of logic,
Another positive assertion from your keyboard! Now, it happens
that logic is a fairly standardized branch of knowledge: there are
books of "rules" of it, even, and those books tend to agree with one
another quite well. Until I see some evidence that you have actually
read _any_ book on logic and comprehended it, I fear that I am quite
unlikely to regard your flat statements about it, such as the one
above, as nothing more than ignorant bullshit.
And to Richard Smith, you assert:
KY> Now, we can argue about whether or not something of the
KY> supernatural exists, but even history will agree with me that
KY> Jesus was a real person.
Really? Please be so good as to give us _one_ mention of Jesus
by a contemporary (1st century BCE), non-Christian historian that is
neither a forgery (Josephus) nor a reference to the _followers_ of
Jesus rather than to the man himself. To be sure, many historians
from the medieval period onward have assumed the existence of Jesus,
but they really had nothing save Christian tradition upon which to
base this assumption.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 10 Feb 97 10:27:22
EID:1496 224a5360
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff47a6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32fe0787
Dan Ceppa said "Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
MG>> Is a personal goat anything like a personal savior?
DC> Similar, but real. And, tastier too, as it's not as old
DC> as the rotting god on a stick.
MG> The stuff they serve at Escondido's across the street form the lab is.
DC> They probably sent their leftovers to my old freshman dining hall.
DC> I still have a pair of sandals made out of one of their steaks.
Bitch, bitch, bitch! At least the _portions_ were ample, in that
case.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Fundies B
|Date: 10 Feb 97 11:21:01
EID:7e31 224a5aa0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff8e11
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fc1fce
Richard Smith said "Fundies B" to David Ragland, adding:
dr> You are a liar.
RS> And you suck off men at the Greyhound bus station.
I think it more likely that he sucks off greyhounds whenever he
gets out of the sight of men, but only their vet can know for sure.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Say what?
|Date: 10 Feb 97 11:24:09
EID:be41 224a5b00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff8e12
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fc20fc
Richard Smith said "Say what?" to Don Martin, adding:
RS>> I'll be you a dollar that Mr. Martin has NEVER challenged
dr>> So what?
RS> So it proves you wrong in what you were asserting.
RS>> you to PROVE your belief. AAMOF, I'm sure that Mr. Martin
RS>> is already sure of your belief. What he doubts is the
RS>> reality of it. BTW, didn't you leave a bit out of the
dr>> Doubts? But you said earlier that he was convinced.
RS> If you can show me where I said that Mr. Martin was
RS> absolutely convinced of the veracity of your beliefs, I will
RS> apologize. BUT, if you can't, you are a fucking liar, and
RS> everyone here will be able to see that.
RS> David Ragland apparently thinks that I told him that you
RS> were convinced of the truth of his beliefs. Now he'll say
RS> that I'm denying it, and that I'm a liar. You have known me
RS> here for almost a year now . . . I leave it to you as to
RS> whether I made that kind of statement in regards to
RS> yourself.
I have read the exchange as well as some other effusions from
the ragland keyboard: this loon is apparently evem more bent on
demonstrating his imbecility than he is his faith. While I cannot
say categorically that you never said I was convinced of the truth
of this twit's beliefs (impossibility of proving a negative and all
that), I _can_ state categorically that I would be bloody astonished
to find that you _had_ said such a thing about me or about any other
regular of sound mind on the echo.
Now, I may be convinced that he truly believes this crap, but
that is not quite the same thing as being convinced of the truth of
the belief. Actually I _am_ convinced of the genuineness of his
belief--I have maintained often enough right here that I do not
believe fundies to be lying. Nor do I believe psychotics tell lies
when they relate what their voices have to say about the O.J.
Simpson trial.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: All
|Sub: Seinfeld
|Date: 10 Feb 97 16:04:22
EID:8cc4 224a8080
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ff8e13
I am not a fan of Seinfeld--I've tried to watch his show, but I
guess I am too old for ti or something. However, in an interview on
60 Minutes last night he made a comment worth remembering. Asked
whether his treatement in the tabloid newspapers bothered him, he
replied, "Not really. Sure, they make stuff up, but what of it?
People who read the tabloids _deserve_ to be lied to."
Now, if he would only tell the fundies that, we might be spared
new iterations of "Noah's Ark Found!"
"Scientists Baffled!"
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 11 Feb 97 10:39:00
EID:32c5 224b54e0
Dan and David were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
DC> What would you do if your daughter was the victim and
DC> someone that could have prevented it didn't help?
DR> Or what if Al's god told someone else to rape Al's
DR> daughter--- would Al meekly accept that?
His response to Dan's question was along the order of "it would depend".
I suspect that it would be the answer to yours as well. I'm glad he doesn't
have daughters.
Hmmm...it just occured to me...if God had REALLY wanted to bring on a
unquestionable miracle, he should have impregnated JOSEPH.....
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
... "'Ow d'you know `e's a King?" "`e `asn't got shit all over `im."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:35:00
EID:181a 224b5c60
David and David were killing time yakking about Direct Dialling:
DR> "Hi, this is Joe and Cindy. We're currently out getting an
DR> abortion, so we can't come to the phone right now. Please
DR> leave a message and we'll get back to you."
DR>
DR> "Yeah, uh, Joe? And, uh, Cindy? This is Ken's gods. We,
DR> ah, we're sorry we missed you. goddamnit, I never could think of what to say to these
DR> goddamend answering machines> We're FINALLY here for the
DR> Judgment Day festivities. Yeah, we're sorry we took about
DR> 2000 years longer than we said we would, but what the
DR> fuck---- we're gods after all, and allowed to keep you
DR> stupid shills guessing just for laughs. So, like, if you
DR> haven't repented and like, are still sinning, please go to
DR> your nearest Hell Processing Center and check in. Okay?
DR> Okay. Thanks."
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!
Somehow, I can see Chick Productions stealing that idea....
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
... "Grow some hair, Picard. Your brain must be getting cold." -- Q
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Being Hitt: Need or Want?
|Date: 11 Feb 97 10:53:00
EID:ea1a 224b56a0
David and J.j. were killing time yakking about Exemplifying examples:
DW> ! Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7
DW> (1:123/67.7)
JH> Oh... by the way... would you please hurry up and reply to
JH> one of the "J.J. needs to be Hitt" messages? This defamation
JH> of my good name has got to stop and you're so used to being
JH> sued over such things that I think I'll start with you.
Then...you DON'T need to be Hitt? You just choose to be Hitt?
(g, d, r!)
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
... Would you please call me a bitch? I feel left out. J.J. Hitt
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Good Times
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:36:00
EID:aa54 224b5c80
David and David were killing time yakking about Good Times:
DW> That's what you think.
DW> You *do* scan for viruses, don't you?
DW>
DW> -Aleph Prime-
DW> #$%@&*&!^@^#%$%^!%%#^^&@*((*(!*(S(!*(**#&@&#$
DW> -end-
DW>
DW> Enjoy.
DR> Oh hell! That's just dandy! Now I have a format my harddisk
DR> and two Netware file servers! Thanks a lot!
Oh VERY nice, David...and you just had to quote it and spread it farther,
didn't you?!
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "Daddy, what does '78% of C: formatted' mean?"
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž David! You're killing me!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Here, have a jelly doughn
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:36:00
EID:7792 224b5c80
Ken and David were killing time yakking about Here, have a jelly doughn:
KY> Why is it so difficult to understand? We have the
KY> free will to decide to go to Heaven or Hell..[sic]
KY> To follow God[sic] or Satan..[sic] There is a choice
KY> involved, just not as much as you might prefer.
DR> Why is it so difficult for you to understand? You have
DR> the free will to decide to hand over all of your money
DR> or have your head removed by my shotgun. Your money or
DR> your life. There is a choice involved, just not as much
DR> as you might prefer.
What?! You're not even going to offer a jelly doughnut?
Hmmm...I think I should have eaten breakfast....
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "Heaven is Rock & Roll music & jelly doughnuts!" Elvis
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: RICHARD SMITH
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:36:00
EID:12ea 224b5c80
Ken and Richard were killing time yakking about Hypocritical people:
jf> And how can I possibly be a fundy? All I'm trying
jf> to do is stick by the Bible
MK> ROFL!
KY> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
Well, most of the ones I knew liked to get pickled on Saturday night before
they got together on Sunday morning to talk about the eviiils of drinking
and dancing.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž A few pickles short of a jar.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: No Pain, no theogain
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:36:00
EID:a0e7 224b5c80
Dan and David were killing time yakking about No Pain, no theogain:
>>DC> Try doing that with the god that died and still
>>DC> lives that lied to you about dying.
>AS> He didn't lie about dying. He just didn't stay dead.
DR> ROTFL!!!!
:) Ever play cops and robbers as a kid?
(pointing finger) BANG! You're dead!
Am NOT!
Am TOO!
NOT!
TOO!!
Ok, but I got back alive again!!
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
... "And what's this fad with you kids of walking fully erect?"
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:15:00
EID:37ad 224b59e0
Ken and Dave were killing time yakking about READING INCOMPREHENSI:
KY> Oh, and it couldn't possibly that I got my ideas from me, and not from
KY> other people?
DH> Who is it that has told you the bible is true?
The voices in his head, of course!
KY> I doubt very much if I believe as I do to
KY> get acceptance or approval, when people don't accept or approve of my
KY> beliefs.
DH> Oh? The congregation at your church don't accept your beliefs? I'll
DH> bet they think your a fine fellow.
I'm not convinced he has a congregation, other than him and his dog getting
together out in the shed where he stores his survivalist gear, planning
how
to take over when the government falls...
KY> Part of growing up is accepting reality, something non-Christians have
KY> yet to do.
DH> I think you will find among those of us who gave Christianity
DH> a good try that most of us would describe leaving it behind
DH> as a process of growing up.
Amen.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
... "Do you worship an evil god or an incompetent one?": Simon Ewins
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: BRIAN KOLACY
|Sub: Test
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:20:00
EID:57ec 224b5a80
** and Brian were killing time yakking about Test:
BK> Hail!
BK> Just testing out this new mail reader...'Tis the only 32-bit OLR I've
BK> come across. Well, that isn't bugware...Oh, and you'll all really
BK> have to start posting less if you want me to keep track of this echo:)
So, do you like it?
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Alpha testing - CTRL-ALT-DEL, a way of life.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women? (guff)
|Date: 11 Feb 97 11:27:00
EID:1c98 224b5b60
Dan and David were killing time yakking about Well, women? (guff):
>DR> ... Gee, there must be hundreds of em! -- Carl Sagan, age 8.
DC> I now can only wonder about thinking that Sagan knew about
DC> that one. I would loved to have seen him and asked him
DC> about that scenario. Of course, I would have been able
DC> to use " . . . hunnndrrreds and HUNNNDRRREDS of em! . . ."
DR> I've never seen the tagline in Usenet, so I doubt Sagan
DR> saw it. We should have asked him to contribute to
DR> HOLYSMOKE (smile!).
(pious look) Well, David, he's with us in spirit....
OW!!! (ducking from the billions and billions of tomatoes being thrown at
me!)
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Tomato paste - what you use to fix broken tomatoes.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 11 Feb 97 17:35:17
EID:78e7 224b8c60
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 224b8c68
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RH> I suspect it will be his willingness to post here.
DM> Nothing has ever diminshed that in the past. I suspect
DM> that in his case, denial simply means that he dances and
DM> types faster.
RH> To my regret, my prediction was right on. He will no longer
RH> be with us. But not for the reason I proposed.
Oh, you were right, Roger. You pointed out the fuse -- the explosion was
the
more-or-less natural result of it burning down to the end.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 11 Feb 97 17:35:21
EID:aaf5 224b8c60
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 224b8c6a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
MB>> Nobody's trying to justify a parent killing his or her child so it
MB>> will go to Heaven. What we are saying is that if you really,
MB>> really believed what you claim, you'd WANT to kill your children
MB>> rather than allow them the greater likelihood of them spending
MB>> eternity in Hell rather than in Heaven.
JS> The liklihood would be no greater if they lived a full life or died
in
JS> childhood.
So how do your gods decide if an infant goes to heaven or hell, Jimbo?
A roll
of the dice? Surely infants are not capable of committing "sins," so what
are
you left with here?
Should be fun to watch you try to squirm out of this one, if you can find
the
guts to try... :-)
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Jim Goodman
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 11 Feb 97 17:35:25
EID:a497 224b8c60
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 224b8c6c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DR>>>>> If you are so set against the idea that any God exist
HP>>>> Strawman. We are not "set against the idea that any God
HP>>>> exist [sic]." You have yet to provide us with any reason
HP>>>> to believe that your gods exist -- that's all.
JG>>> Even reasons to believe gods or any God exists would be
JG>>> a start. Could there be good reasons for either? Never
JG>>> mind answering the question whether "your gods" exist.
JG>>> Just start with gods or God generic.
RS>> Isn't that what Mark said?
JG> Not quite. He did use the delimiter "your" with "gods."
It would be rather silly to ask him for a reason to believe that someone
else's
gods exist, wouldn't it, particularly since he's a member of a religion
which
claims that only its gods exist? Or do you mean to imply that you have
some
reason to believe that any gods exist?
Precisely what's your point, Jim? :-)
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: HATEFUL BILL WOLF!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 17:35:29
EID:32bf 224b8c60
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 224b8c6e
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
BW>> Hardly... I'm a Saganist.
DC> Not even close. You are a Lying Asshole at best.
He seems to adhere as closely to the intent of Sagan as most xtians do to
the
apparent intent of Jesus...
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 10 Feb 97 13:26:05
EID:3489 224a6b40
MSGID: 3:711/933 32ff255c
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 32fc3d3a
Dear Mark O'Neill,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
MON> anyone tell me who or what Blavatsky is?
Madame Helene Blavatski was a phony spiritualist who operated amongst a
group people, notably in London (late last century if I'm not mistaken).
She claimed to be a clairvoyant and held seances to communicate with the
spirit world. She visited India and picked up certain facets of Eastern
philosophy. She was eventually exposed as a liar but I don't think this
caused any feelings of remorse.
She was involved for a time with Rudolf Steiner and Annie Bessant. But
you would be advised to look up an encyclopaedia for accurate info.
Just a few words of accurate comment on the verse you quoted.
MON> "One man - one vision,
The vision is for one man, but the fact is there are two. The "original
sin" was adultery between Eve and the Serpent, a man-like creature before
God changed every bone in his body. Cain is nowhere in the genealogy of
the human race. Neither are his descendants to this day.
If you read Genesis 6 you will discover God destroyed the world with the
Flood because of miscegenation between the seed of Adam and the seed of
the Serpent. Jesus said this would repeat in this day. Australia and the
USA are at the forefront of those encouraging it.
MON> racial purity,
That's what the Bible commands. Nothing to do with color. Race! - Cain's,
or Adam's. If you mix them the offspring are Serpent sed and cannot breed
back.
MON> madman or magician?
???
MON> A mystery to me,
MON> he who scorn the teachings of
MON> Blavatsky count the cost
I should think that anyone who scorned Blavatsky's teachings would be blessed.
Besides, woman is forbidden to teach spiritual matters.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Ayesha Williams
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 10 Feb 97 13:40:58
EID:37c1 224a6d00
MSGID: 3:711/933 32ff2709
REPLY: 1:106/7315 32fb425e
Dear Ayesha Williams,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AW> Why is it that it seems that every Christian church is trying to
AW> convert the whole world?
No Christian Church is attempting any such thing. You have never encountered
the Christian Church. Have you not read in your Bible
that Jesus was the second Adam? He was NOT the second Cain and as
the vast majority of people are in Cain's lineage, the vast majority
have NO Redeemer, and cannot be converted. Furthermore, if you read
John 17 you will discover Jesus said, "I pray NOT for the world, but
for those you have given Me OUT of the world".
An enquiring mind is to be encouraged. But try to find what TRUTH is before
you attempt to prove yourself half smart. Humility is a part
of wisdom. Seek to know truth.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:44:58
EID:4597 224bb580
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300f681
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies February 11 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad KEN YOUNG:
DR> Beating The Devil, Article Number Two
DR> Dallas Morning News, Friday 9/23/94
DR> WOMEN GET PROBATION FOR GOUGING SISTER'S EYES.
DR> By Steve Scott
I typed this one up. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:46:12
EID:4597 224bb5c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300f6c8
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies February 11 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad KEN YOUNG:
DR> Jeffrey Dahmer is likely to turn to religion in prison, but 40
DR> years from now he probably will be psychologically unchanged,
DR> psychiatrist Basil Jackson said Sunday.
Goddammit, they were RIGHT! :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:47:10
EID:99cc 224bb5e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300f72d
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ff262b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Lunae dies February 10 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad All:
DW> I received my first order from Amazon.com today.
This place is of the Devil. I've spent way too much there already, and
even David Rice was kind enough to give me a present from there (a book
on Science versus "Creation Science."). It's EVIL, I tell you, EVIL!
[Don't forget http://www.powells.com.]
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:48:30
EID:f36c 224bb600
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3300f76e
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 751895dc
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Lunae dies February 10 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> I just saw something while watching "Unsolved Mysteries" about
SQ>> dogs sniffing out melanoma. You heard about this one yet?
MG> File it under "unproven".
I rather figured that, given that there didn't appear to be very good controls
in the experiments.
MG> The only thing that show is good for is a few laughs.
Why, certainly. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shant...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 20:59:02
EID:ee6c 2246a760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d596
* On 29-01-97 at 18:27, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shant Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> Heilsa, Rod Swift!
Heilsa, Scarf-Man-Head. *Elmira-Smile* :)
GT> DR>> I have never sinned. *POOF!* goes your sillyassed claim.
GT> RS> I've never sinned either, David. Sin only comes if you believe
GT> RS> in the concept, which I'm sure you and I do not. :)
GT> As I've pointed out to the thumpers in here on a number of
GT> occasions. "Sin" is an Abrahamic concept entirely; one
GT> who is not of an Abrahamic path cannot sin.
One-billion-percent on the mark, Glen.
GT> A logical (and theological) impossibility.
But of course. But don't tell the Kwistians, their heads will
explode into widdle-biddy bits :)
GT> ... AWESOME, COSMIC POWERS ... itty-bitty living space.
Robin Williams has a lot to answer for...
Rod "...but he's suuuure funny!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:00:04
EID:68cc 2246a800
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d5d4
* On 29-01-97 at 18:31, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> GM>> FOR THE CHRISTIAN, THANKSGIVING IS NOT JUST A DAY
GT> GM>> BUT A WAY OF LIFE.
GT> RS> Yes, a way-of-life that is self-delusional.
GT> 'Thanksgiving' is observed in our household as a day of
GT> mourning. I doubt that Mr. Mouth would care to know why.
I would, but I suspect that it has something to do with the fact
that an objective look at the day is not a celebration of
togetherness or thankfulness, but *also* a day symbolising the
invasion and ultimate destruction of native North American
indigenous culture.
Rod "...and you're right. Mouth'd not care" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Houston Shit
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:02:06
EID:10a6 2246a840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d64e
* On 29-01-97 at 18:38, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Houston Shit" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> JH>> The one that used to be a "petting zoo" (lasted until the baby
GT> JH>> elephant escaped onto the freeway), then was a water slide, then
GT> JH>> a putt-putt golf kiddie park, then a Country Western open air
GT> JH>> theatre?
GT> JH>> It has had yet another incarnation....
GT> JH>> It is now "Prayer Mountain".
GT> JH>> (I've no idea just what they do there yet, or who runs it.)
GT> RS> Woooo.. Now Houston is looking better as a Holy Smoke Convention
GT> RS> City :) Just imagine how much fun we could have there! :)
GT> Pass the Darwin fish and the Necronomicons!
So this is a vote for Houston, I gather?
Rod "...I do hope so!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Patrick Humphrey
|Sub: Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:03:08
EID:7c04 2246a860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d68c
* On 30-01-97 at 22:37, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
PH> QF> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt David utter:
PH> QF> DR> "Dead fetuses" are put in red plastic bags with black
PH> QF> DR> biohazzard blossoms printed on them, and sent to one
PH> QF> DR> of hundreds of hazzardous waste furnaces in the country.
PH> QF> What a waste of perfectly good protein. :)
PH> RS> Babies.
PH> RS> Fun to make.
PH> RS> Fun to eat.
PH> RS> Rod "...I have a picture, too :)" Swift :)
PH> All right, Rod -- *no* tales of eating at Sammy's on the Rice campus...:-)
No, I really do have a picture... It's a jpg, I believe.
Rod "...I could put it on my website for you :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:09:10
EID:4e20 2246a920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d7f6
* On 30-01-97 at 12:27, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
RichS> rods> * On 30-12-96 at 15:29
RichS> I like this. You go back so far and answer such old messages
RichS> that yours are the only posts addressed to me after I've been
RichS> gone a month! I love mail!
:) :) It was that special Yule gift from me to you :) :) I note
that there is less of a lag now :) :)
RichS> rods> Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word
RichS> rods> "gook" as you have used it above?
RichS> js> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.
RichS> RichS> Has anyone pointed out to Jimson that the word `gook' is
not
RichS> RichS> part of the Vietnamese language?
RichS> rods> Yes.
RichS> So, say about next August, he'll realize what was said . . .
Only if it involves those commie rice-eatin' chinko-nazi sombees :)
[For the other echo participants, I wish to apologise in advance
for the language I have just used. I do not hold such views, I
merely am emulating Staaaalin-stupidity-mode... :)]
RichS> RichS> He's a fucking bigot, period.
RichS> rods> Perjorative to the maximum, Richard.
RichS> Absolutely.
Yep... Couldn't agree with someone of the same initials any more
than I am. A Gazillion Percent Correct, Richard!
Rod "...I think I better get married soon, to solve the confusion
:)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: I KNEW it!
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:10:12
EID:4323 2246a940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d834
* On 30-01-97 at 12:31, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "I KNEW it!" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> ... Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but
RS> js> it hurts when I insert 'em.
RS> rods> Didn't your mother tell you they were good
RS> rods> for haemorrhoids? Start shoving away... Trust
RS> rods> me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)
RS> js> Ahhh you are correct!
RS> RS> LOL . . . the truth is finally out, as is Jimson . . .
RS> rods> BINGO! :)
RS> I knew it, after all that talk about size and leather biker
RS> bars, the S.O. named Wilbur, etc.
And, of course, we all know that for Jim's Birthday, we should
send presents to the dearly *ahem* female "Wilbur" something
ordered from the Northbound catalog at http://www.northbound.com/
:)
Rod "...alternatively, send them my way :)" Swift :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Tagline!
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:11:14
EID:6ce0 2246a960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d872
* On 30-01-97 at 12:33, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Tagline!" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> Yeah, like I go there with my wife (on vacation) to find
RS> js> rough n ready sex. get real, will ya?
RS> RS> I swear, there's a tagline there someplace . . .
RS> RS> ... I go there with my wife to find rough n ready sex. -J. Staalin
RS> rods> I wanna know where he goes when they are not on vacation,
RS> rods> for that rough n ready sex :)
RS> Maybe he'll give a demonstration at the convention . . .
Oh my! But if it's in Texas, it's probably against TX Code Section
21.06 :)
RS> rods> Rod "...either way, it's definitely FAQ material :)" Swift
RS> rods> :)
RS> Oh yes.
Time to drag out the FAQ and give it a "new year update" :)
Rod "...yes yes yes!" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Smegma Staalin
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:15:16
EID:208a 2246a9e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d964
* On 30-01-97 at 12:35, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Smegma Staalin" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
RS> RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
RS> RS> man march on Washington?
RS> js> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is organizing the
RS> js> first million man march on Washington.
RS> ^^^^^
RS> Shouldn't that be `are organizing' rather than `is
RS> organizing?' Or is Jimson speaking Eubonics? The failed
RS> English Major strikes again . . .
It is customary in educational circles to only refer to yourself
*after* college as a *major* if one has passed it. If not, you
can only claim to have studied some units in an attempt to gain
a major... :)
I doubt he's currently an English major! :) To be so, he'd have
to have graduated from a degree program with such a recognised
major stream.
RS> RS> ROFLMGDAO . . . gads, I don't have the heart to tell the lil'
RS> RS> feller . . . . . .
RS> rods> Well, in Jimson's world, black people probably don't exist
RS> rods> :) Neither do gay people probably. Both those groups have
RS> rods> had marches of more than 500,000 in Washington :)
RS> I think they could have marched right across Jimson's instep
RS> and he'd still not have noticed . . .
Some of them probably did. :) :) Remember, he likes leather,
and someone named "Wilbur" and gay biker bars :)
Heck, I bet the Lesbian Avengers could organise a better March on
Washington than the Promisefilth.
RS> RS> You know, you just can't buy entertainment like this.
RS> rods> That's why it should be in the FAQ :)
RS> Saved for posterity . . .
Only if it is Jim's, and if I get to pull it outta there on a
regular basis...
Rod "... oh, I thought you said posterior. My mistake!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:16:18
EID:3e67 2246aa00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d9a2
* On 30-01-97 at 19:49, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Literally Seaking" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> RS> So, at first you ask for information about evolution as observed
DH> RS> in mammals, and that scream that the onus of proof is on David--then
DH> RS> when he offers to provide such evidence to you, you claim that
"it'd
DH> RS> be a waste of time".
DH> RS> You can't have it both ways, Jimbozo.
DH> Sure he can. It's honestly-earned ignorance.
This belongs in Fredric's quote file. Let it haunt for a while
:)
Rod "...now, was it Laurie we were talking to? :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is a Vorlon
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:17:20
EID:ed89 2246aa20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9d9e0
* On 30-01-97 at 18:59, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Bullshit. Many ex-Davidians had reported the acts perpetrated
JS> JS> RS> inside the cult's ranks. There'd even been quite indepth
JS> JS> RS> journalist reports into the cult's activities, the division
and
JS> JS> RS> rift that formed that led Vernon Howell to the leadership of
the
JS> JS> RS> cult and the ousting of previous cult leaders, etc, etc.
JS> JS> But there was no proof.
JS> RS> You say that so boldly. Wasn't there a congressional
JS> RS> investigation?
JS> After the fact.
Did they find the cult of Vernon was stockpiling TANKS? Or was
it that they just had a year's supply of NOODLES to keep them
going?
Rod "...hahahahaah" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves? Not on my salary he doesn't.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:23:22
EID:3b03 2246aae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9db4a
* On 30-01-97 at 19:00, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> So you believe that all laws against criminalising the sexual
JS> JS> RS> acts of gay people practiced in private settings should be
also
JS> JS> RS> removed?
JS> JS> Are there still any enforced? Either way, yes, it is their business.
JS> RS> Yes, it is on the books in about 2 dozen states :) Didn't you
JS> RS> know this, Jimson?
JS> Yeah (like an Aussie telling about _my_ laws) but are any still
JS> enforced?
Just because I have greater research skills in this
ever-shrinking technopolis does not mean that you cannot claim
ignorance to the fact I also can analyse laws and statutes. :)
You must remember, Jim, I spend half the time in the US :) Given
you have 10% of a brain (and hence only spend about 10% of your
time in reality) I think that makes me five-times more adept at
even contemplating the usage and meaning of laws.
For recent cases in the last YEAR, check out the usage of the
Georgia sodomy law against a worker in the Attorney General's
department in Georgia, the Alabama sodomy law being used as
justification to deny funding of a gay and lesbian support group
on campus, the Utah sodomy law being used as a justification to
attempt to remove student groups from campuses, etc, etc, etc.
Of course, in the last year the sodomy law was challenged in
Kentucky and Tennessee after convictions in both those states.
Both laws were found unconstitutional. Further, the Kentucky
legislators wish to try and RELEGISLATE and outlaw it even though
their state supreme court has ruled that it is unconstitutional.
So, yes, the laws are still being used.
JS> JS> RS> How about the removal of bans against recognising same-gender
JS> JS> RS> marriages as legally binding unions in civil law? Or will
gay
JS> JS> RS> people of religion (and irreligion, who wish civil marriage)
be
JS> JS> RS> still denied their religious and/or civil freedoms?
JS> JS> Nope. Please post a duly recognized definition of marriage.
JS> RS> So you believe in sexual freedom, but not relationship freedom,
JS> RS> for gay and lesbian people? How do you explain this
JS> RS> contradiction?
JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz. But
to
JS> take what is declared wrong and say openly that it is right, I can't
JS> agree with.
I don't mind what Christians do behind closed doors in church.
It is their business. But when they take it out of the church
and expose it to innocent children, it is *SICK SICK SICK*
Rod "...amazing what swapping a few words does, isn't it?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Goodbye /1
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:25:24
EID:a831 2246ab20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9dbc4
* On 30-01-97 at 19:02, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Goodbye /1" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> They're FEMINAZIS huh?
JS> JS> AMEN! Preach on, my brother. (tic)
JS> RS> This is what I like about you Jim. You're so vacuous. If you
JS> RS> don't know what it means, look it up in the dictionary, Mr
JS> RS> Erudite :)
JS> yeah, typical response from Rod Swift. Nothing he knows by experience,
JS> merely by hearsay.
Everyone, repeat after me, with puppy eyes:
"WAAAAAH! Rod exploded my argument and I can't reply!"
Rod "...repeat 100 times, and you too can be a Staalin" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "It's 50-50! Better odds than at the Dabo table" - Quark
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:27:26
EID:3d55 2246ab60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9dc3e
* On 30-01-97 at 19:03, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Your Daily Brother Jim" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Isn't fire a defoliant? Use that :)
JS> JS> RS> Are you willing to admit that Agent Orange was used for more
JS> JS> RS> destructive purposes such as enemy anti-personnel attacks?
JS> JS> RS> Then again, this is exactly the sort of stuff that makes me
think
JS> JS> RS> you're head isn't filled with brain cells. In fact...
JS> Ok, I'll buy your excuse. My answer is 'no'.
So you think Agent Orange, a chemical that was both dangerous to
foreign troops and an agent that would affect US troops, was used
to "defoliate plants" -- yet other methods of defoliation were
not used because, well, they didn't have the conveeeenient
side-effects of killing "the nazi commie rice-chowin' sombees"?
Rod "...ah, I get it... There's no hidden agenda, and the use of
Agent Orange just had a lucky-guess benefit of killing the
enemy?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Goodbye /1
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:29:28
EID:a831 2246aba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9dcb8
* On 30-01-97 at 19:04, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Goodbye /1" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> JS>...Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but it
JS> JS> JS>hurts when I insert 'em.
JS> JS> RS> Didn't your mother tell you they were good for haemorrhoids?
JS> JS> RS> Start shoving away... Trust me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)
JS> JS> Ahhh you are correct!
JS> JS> ... I want to take the Crash Course In Brain Surgery...
JS> RS> You're a silly one, Jim :) :)
JS> RS> Your degree from Calvin College that you never achieved was a
JS> RS> major in English and proctology, right?
JS> Now you should know of proctology. Didn't you visit one to have that
JS> light bulb removed from your butt?
Everyone, repeat after me:
"WAAAAH! I can't respond to Rod, so I'm going to make an
ad hominem attack and just hope that no one notices"
Rod "...and remember to click the ruby-slippers' heels together
and say 'there's no place like home', Jimbozo" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis. People+delusion=religion.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:35:30
EID:f601 2246ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9de22
* On 30-01-97 at 19:05, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> JS> JS> JS> You were in Vietnam?
JS> JS> JS> JS> DC> If he was, it was _Viet Nam_, "English Major".
JS> JS> JS> KS> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook,
eh?
JS> JS> JS> KS> You really are an asshole.
JS> JS> JS> JS> You really get to be at a loss for words, don't you?
JS> JS> JS> rs> he's right, you racist asshole.
JS> JS> JS> Racist? In what manner?
JS> RS> In the fact it is perjorative.
JS> Perjorative is a noun.
You so sure, Mr Erudite?
JS> JS> RS> Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word
"gook"
JS> JS> RS> as you have used it above?
JS> JS> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.
JS> RS> Actually, it is not obvious. However, given this "admission" of
JS> RS> yours, do you still admit that it is a perjorative term against
JS> RS> an ethnics group's language, and hence the ethnic group?
JS> RS> Isn't saying "gook" in the context you claim the same as saying:
JS> RS> "Those people speak 'nigger'"? That is, still perjorative?
JS> No. I would say the black dude spoke 'jive'.
Oh, and do Japanese speak "nip"?
Do Chinese speak "chinky-chonk"?
Do people of Latin extraction speak "spic"?
Do Germans speak "kraut"?
Do Russians speak "commie"?
Please, Mr Erudite, tell us of your language skills :)
JS> JS> RS> Did you use it as a perjorative against people of Asian ethnicity?
JS> JS> Not by any means.
JS> RS> Did you realise it is implied, and that you really should
JS> RS> apologise and use proper English?
JS> RS> Hey, and aren't you an English language major? You should know
JS> RS> better.
JS> Better than what?
Better than using demeaning and racially-charged connotative terms
when there are denotative words that would suffice:
Those words, for your reference, are:
Vietnamese, Japanese, Russian, Spanish, etc, etc, etc.
JS> JS> RS> If you did, you're a racist asshole :)
JS> JS> RS> If you did NOT, please do tell us how you did mean to use it!
:)
JS> JS> See above...
JS> RS> We've still deduced whether it was describing a Vietnamese
JS> RS> person, or a Vietnamese person's language, it is perjorative!
JS> Perjorative is a noun.
Are you so sure?
Rod "... of course, this does not account for the use of your
words which were racial slurs" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:35:32
EID:7cd0 2246ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9de24
* On 30-01-97 at 19:07, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "wisdom" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> I'm the mortal enemy of alt.org.promisekeepers. The PromiseFilth
JS> JS> RS> in that newsgroup don't like dissenting opinion -- to the point
JS> JS> RS> of cancelling my posts...
JS> JS> Poor baby. Maybe if your arguments dealt with fact instead of some
Fred
JS> JS> Rice preconcieved bull shit, it might be different.
JS> RS> Oh, I'm in league with Fred Rice now? For the record, I was
JS> RS> posting such wonderful things as news reports about the
JS> RS> Promisefilth, and their abusive and violent attendees :)
JS> if you have any evidence to back up this claim, trot it out here and
JS> we'll take a look at it.
Oh, I'm sure I can do that, Jimbozo. How much do you want?
Rod "...hehehehee" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:36:34
EID:ed89 2246ac80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9de62
* On 30-01-97 at 19:07, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> KS> Ah. The police station is a disgusting place.
JS> JS> KS> But you hang out in biker bars.
JS> JS> KS> Figures.
JS> JS> RS> You have a better chance of getting some rough 'n' ready sex
from
JS> JS> RS> the Blue Oyster bar than the local cop shop :) :)
JS> JS> Yeah, like I go there with my wife (on vacation) to find rough n
ready
JS> JS> sex. get real, will ya?
JS> RS> Jim, you should try it once in a while. It's better than Wilbur,
JS> RS> the branding irons, and you being Mr Ed :)
JS> I don't know...this little leather device I purchased this summer at
the
JS> Lovecraft shop in Toronto seems to help do the job.
I don't think that was the intended use of garottes, Jim.
Rod "...don't you think? Oh, no. That's a rhetorical question
for you ;)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis. People+delusion=religion.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:37:36
EID:3b03 2246aca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9dea0
* On 30-01-97 at 19:11, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> You know, you and Steingrobe would make an excellent au pair :)
JS> Steiny? He's a cool guy. I like the dude. Known him for about a year.
You just want to buttfuck(tm) him, I bet... Maybe at a
Promisekritters conference :)
JS> RS> After all, he's the one bemoaning that if there is anyone that
JS> RS> likes to "wear dresses" and the rest of feminine attire in the
JS> RS> #holysmoke chat channel, or here, it'd be me.
JS> Nah, you'd look like he** in a dress. Lose a few and it might work.
:)
Awwww. Can't you say "hell", Jim? Is it against your erudite
religion? :) :)
I dare you to say it!
Rod "...ahhahaah" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:39:38
EID:ff08 2246ace0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9df1a
* On 30-01-97 at 19:13, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (25 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> CJ> And just who do you shower with that you're bashful?
JS> JS> I was referring to 'public' shower rooms, like the gym, dude...
JS> RS> So not only you go to leather biker bars, you're now cruising the
JS> RS> gym. You're a 100% A-Grade gay slut, Jim :)
JS> No slut I.
Ah... so you're an I-Grade gay slut. :)
JS> I do like to work out, however, but I shower at home.
That's because you bring men home to meet that famous 'female'
(*snicker*) "Wilbur" (*guffaw*)
You like three-in-bed sorta action, eh?
Rod "...you're SICK, Jim :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:40:40
EID:ec48 2246ad00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9df58
* On 30-01-97 at 19:14, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "execute her ?" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (25 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> Fly your butt out here and see for yourself. 4285 41st St. Grandville,
JS> JS> MI
JS> RS> Oh boy. I might take you up on the offer. Any chance of you
JS> RS> getting in your leathers for the occasion?
JS> No problem, dude...and you can see the dimples in my butt through them.
Woowoo! :) :)
No, I'd rather have you at the convention that way. It'd be fun
for a picture... or maybe a home-video :) :)
Rod "..ahahahaha, and bring Slave Mooth too" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do unto others, often.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:41:42
EID:ca58 2246ad20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9df96
* On 30-01-97 at 19:15, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 P" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
JS> RS> It's undeniable that the bible is becoming more and more of an
JS> RS> outdated document with less and less relevance for today's
JS> RS> society. I foresee the day when it will no longer be used as a
JS> RS> guide book to life, more as a mythbook to be laughed at.
JS> Have you _ever read the New Testament? Pauline books in particular?
Yes, I have. Have you read a science text book, Jim? It's a
start to the discovery that the Bible is no longer relevant.
JS> RS> One day, Jim, people will laugh and wonder why people ever
JS> RS> believed the Christian superstition book.
JS> I dont think so: (Mat 24:35 NIV) Heaven and earth will pass away, but
JS> my words will never pass away.
Oh, I'm sure Leviticus 20:13 has not passed away... Just out of
sight... It's one of those inconveeeenient scriptural passages
that you salad-bar, choose-your-own-salvation pick-and-choose
Christians like to no longer enforce :)
Rod "...actually, make that most of Leviticus 20" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:43:44
EID:ff08 2246ad60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9e010
* On 30-01-97 at 19:17, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> yes, but the jjpoint is, He wasn't. He was a man.
JS> RS> He was also gay, Jim. He was also a liberal, Jim.
JS> Gay, oh mighty blasphemer????? Biblical evidence to support the above
JS> claims?
Hanging around with other men. Never had a chick nor boinked
one. Always ate with these "disciples". No doubt he *recruited
them* at an early age by "ritual". Wore flowing dresses. Had
long nancy boy hair. Was a real weakling and was too
compassionate -- SNAGS 2k years ago were obviously *FAGS* -- and
was always talking to women at wells. He was obviously giving
them life tips, which is what gay men do.
He was living the gaaaaay lifestyle, Jim. Deal with it.
Rod "...*guffaw*." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:45:46
EID:c45c 2246ada0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9e08a
* On 30-01-97 at 19:18, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
JS> JS> RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
JS> JS> RS> man march on Washington?
JS> JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is organizing the first
million
JS> JS> man march on Washington.
JS> RS> Third, actually.
JS> First, actually, Aussie boy.
Third "million-person assembly and march" moronic swamp-water
sucker.
Rod "...I love you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Feb 97 21:48:48
EID:7cb2 2246ae00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9e140
* On 30-01-97 at 13:38, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Rod Swift spoke thusly to Nate Cookson <=-
JB> RS> Ironic. You're pro-life, yet don't respect it.
JB> Am wrangling with one a tad more stupid than the gnat locally. He pulled
JB> out the one about 'partial-birth' abortions again...complete with the
JB> party line description.
Oh, the one about thousands of little "babies" having their
brains sucked out... and hence not growing up to be jeezoids?
JB> I'll probably end up with another 'vacation' for my answer to him but
I
JB> couldn't help it.
Oh, go on, you like holidays :) :)
JB> Where in the world do these people get the idea that there is room to
JB> poke a hole in a baby's skull with a pair of scissors and suck out the
JB> brain if, as they describe, the baby has been half delivered...feet
first
JB> with the head still in the birth canal?
These people are the same people that think Jesus will be
returning. You work it out, dear Judith :) :)
JB> This is a cunt we're talking about, not a train tunnel.
Thanks for that frank language. You're probably going to give
Jim Staal and Jim Steingrobe boners.
And you know what that will mean....
Rod "...arrrrgh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pedophile Christian...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 22:19:50
EID:f530 2246b260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9e886
* On 29-01-97 at 16:33, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVE HAMILTON,
on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cooks" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> I was reading, by the way, a bunch of homosexual newsgroups this
FR> FR> evening and was surprised by the number of people who defend
FR> FR> pedophile sex with consenting children.
FR> dh> I'd find it hard to bite my tongue listening to such a credible
FR> dh> source as a pedophile advocating for children on the basis of
FR> dh> the benefits to the children.
FR> One clown was worse: He stated that denying a child the
FR> right to be fucked by an adult is child abuse. (I post the
FR> message a little later.)
Was it, perchance, Mr Roy Radow? :(
Rod "...just a guess, considering I've run into him before" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Feb 97 22:32:52
EID:c45c 2246b400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9eb94
* On 29-01-97 at 16:23, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> So... Tell me about this organization. What exactly do you know
JS> FR> about what I've been up to lately? I will caution you to either
think
JS> FR> carefully about your answer else to refrain from doing so entirely.
JS> I neither know, nor care what you are up to,
JS> Fred, but I am sure God receives no glory by, and therefore it
is
JS> meaningless.
Is Jesse providing you with material? I could have swore that
what you said above was the equivalent of "Atheists do not good
deeds", and in fact, takes it to "Atheists *CANNOT* do any good
deeds whatsoever!"
Rod "...buffoon!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Velcronomicon: A magick book that sticks with you
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: [2/2] oh wells
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:10:54
EID:ea51 2246b940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f47e
* On 30-01-97 at 23:13, RONALD VASS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "[2/2] oh wells" in echo Holysmoke:
RV> RS>I told you that I was working on my harpy nomination :)
RV> RS>Or maybe we need a new category for the fairer gender (namely
RV> RS>males :) called hellions :)
RV> ^^^^^^^^
RV> I like it. Sounds good to me.
Well, I gave the definition in another post. Want to be one?
Rod "...you hell-raiser, you! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: You're Misquoting.
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:14:56
EID:3b34 2246b9c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f570
* On 02-02-97 at 09:09, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You're Misquoting." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> RS> I'm making no statement that Eldridge's words are
LA> RS> incorrect.
LA> I welcome your admission that I quoted Eldredge correctly.
I did not claim you had quoted contextually. You have snipped
the rest of my post.
I clearly stated that you have removed them from context, and
mis-editorialised. You have accurately reproduced some of his
words, but not all of his meaning.
LA> I did NOT change one word that he wrote and not did I leave
LA> any out by using ". . . . . ". It follows that it was NOT
LA> quoted "out of context" at all. Here it is again;
The ellipsis clearly occurs after the three paragraphs you quote.
The latter paragraphs contradict your editorialisation.
I say it again:
I did not claim you had quoted contextually. You
have snipped the rest of my post.
I clearly stated that you have removed them from
context, and mis-editorialised. You have accurately
reproduced _some_ of Eldridge's words, but _not_all_
of his meaning.
Rod "...since you cannot provide the correct context, and because
you deceptively provide a DIFFERENT context, you are duplicitous.
Lying for your deity is not a good thing, Laurie" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far From!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Domino
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:18:00
EID:0c41 2246ba40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f628
* On 01-02-97 at 23:58, DOMINO wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Black lipstick" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> RS> BTW, for your reference, if you do suffer discrimination or
DO> RS> violence at the hands of your fellow students due to your
DO> RS> sexual orientation, you do have the right to have it
DO> RS> stopped. There is now court precendence that states that
DO> RS> school systems *must* protect students from
DO> RS> sexual-orientation-harrassment and violence.
DO> Well, for one, noone at my school has any idea of my sexuality. They
were
DO> like, "He's got long hair, and looks different than us! He
DO> must be gay!", typical redneck bullshit frame of mind. For
DO> two, I live in the buckle of the Babble Belt.. Do you think
DO> the admin here would make an effort to protect a
DO> "different" person?
The fact is that it is now Federal precedent in law that even
*percieved* sexual orientation as a reason for discrimination is
*unlawful*. The school administrators have a duty-of-care toward
*ALL* students, and really must act to protect the welfare of all
minors that are placed in their care.
Any school administrator who does not protect all their students
shouldn't be in the job.
DO> (My school has, lets see, an art
DO> teacher who hates gays and has kicked a couple guys out of
DO> his class numerous times because he mistakenly thought they
DO> were gay, a history teacher who said that people of Eastern
DO> religions worshipped snakes and were evil, and a principal
DO> who stokes on the weekends.)
I'd be very interested if you were to netmail or email me an
account of the anti-gay activities at your school (and heck, the
religiously-discriminate acts too). I can get someone to look at
it. The gay, lesbian and straight teachers' network are very
interested in such abuses of children in schools.
Of course, you'd remain anonymous, unless you actually want them
to know who you are.
DO> DO> And yeah, the public education system is a huge mess. I'm
DO> DO> rather ashamed to say I'm from a country that thinks
DO> DO> they've got it good.
DO> RS> Yeah, well, blame the Christers for destroying public
DO> RS> education... and their Republican't colleagues :)
DO> I have no problem with Christianity. I have no problem with
DO> many Christians. It's ignorant hyporcritical wannabe
DO> Christians who think theyre gonna get into Heaven for
DO> passing their unsolicited sinful judgement on me that I
DO> have a problem with.
They are normally the harmful Christians, yes.
Rod "...thanks for your post!" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ric Carter
|Sub: Islam Unbound...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:20:02
EID:9a2c 2246ba80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f6a2
* On 02-02-97 at 05:18, RIC CARTER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Islam Unbound & Uncovere" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> RS> * On 06-01-97 at 02:33, RIC CARTER wrote to ALL,
RC> RS> on the topic of "Islam Unbound & Uncovered" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> RC> From: elazar
RC> RS> Ric, I cannot believe that you are posting material from famous
Jewish
RC> RS> holocaust revisionist Kevin E Abrams (author of "The Pink Swastika")...
RC> I was unaware of the source of that archive material. Had I known,
RC> I would *not* have posted it. Thanks for alerting me. Regrets.
Yes. Mr "Elazar" has recently invaded the gay-jews list again,
and the equal marriage rights list for the first time. The guy
is a jerk off :)
Rod "...he's also the best source of dysfunctional arguments I've
had in a while. Want an archive of what he's been sending to the
marriage list? :) :) You'll laugh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:21:04
EID:bd82 2246baa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f6e0
* On 01-02-97 at 08:40, J.J. HITT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> JH>> I've signed a marriage licence as the "official" before.
JH> JH>> But it was at a mexican restaurant.
JH> RS> Let me guess.... A Pancho's Mexican Buffet? :) Taco Bell?
JH> Nah... I may not have any more class than that, but they
JH> did: it was at a Ninfa's.
Ahhh... A Ninfa's! More classy than the other two... slightly :)
Rod "...but not as classy as Fuzzy's Pizza, where you get a free
Scieno sideshow side-order with every clam pizza!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: A God
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:23:06
EID:91ad 2246bae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f75a
* On 30-01-97 at 12:44, SUE ARMSTRONG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "A God" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> Making a good die roll, Rod Swift cast A God at Sue
SA> Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
Oh no.. you had to roll the 2D10, didn't ya? :) :)
SA> SA> RS> I have this as a .wav file....!
SA> SA> RS> Want it, Sue???
SA> SA> RS> Rod "... let's trade on IRC! :)" Swift
SA> SA> :) I'd love it - if I had a sound card ...
SA> RS> Damn, you don't have one? Some of the cheaper 16 bit ones are
SA> RS> about $40 here.
SA> Yeah - I called about a cheapie SB I saw in the newspaper, but the
SA> sellers never returned my call. In any event, I'll soon have saved
SA> enough cash to buy a good one (GUSMax) brand-new. I've got $165
SA> saved up towards it now.
Oog! Then we'll be able to trade .wav files :) :)
SA> Razor's gonna die. He's got the same card I'm trolling for, and it
SA> cost him $300 about 3 years ago .
Oh boy! :) :) He'll surely be annoyed :)
Rod "...but hey, that's how the retailing works" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't get stuck in a closet. Wear yourself out.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 15 Judge Appeal Court
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:24:08
EID:a01a 2246bb00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f798
* On 02-02-97 at 02:07, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "15 Judge Appeal Court." in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 31 Jan 97 09:30:54, Rod Swift got back to Laurie Appleton
DC> RS> * On 21-01-97 at 09:10, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
DC> .... ^^^^^^^^
DC> RS> Your opponents are clearly competent. The fifth circuit of
DC> RS> appeals courts do not have sessions involving 15 justices sitting
DC> RS> on court cases.
DC> RS> You are wrong.
DC> As most of us already did!
He's now quoting me and claiming there are still court sessions
that have 15 justices presiding :)
DC> Glad to see you are getting closer to being current, too.
Oooh. I know :)
Rod "...nearly there, eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Give Christians Prozac, not Government Office!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:24:10
EID:c951 2246bb00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f79a
* On 02-02-97 at 13:45, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> In any event, Rod Swift has earned the honor(?) of being the second
DC> DC> person Mooth has sent a direct message to.
DC> RS> Damn, I thought I was the first. I am now so upset I am not
DC> RS> George's first. I was so looking to popping his
DC> RS> sentient-post-cherry :)
DC> Look at it this way: He probably doesn't remember the first
DC> time, so that could be considered a first for you per him.
Oh boy! I'm juicing! :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:26:12
EID:c951 2246bb40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f814
* On 02-02-97 at 13:51, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
DC> DC> Probably one in the FAQ. However, you may just earn another
DC> DC> if you get up to something looking like responding to a
DC> DC> current message!
DC> RS> Ahh, shaddup, Dan. :) :) :)
DC> That 'God Dan' to you, Rod!
Oh, ok... Ahh, shaddup, God Dan :) :) :)
Here, have some chocolate pie, babe! :)
DC> RS> I did, however, keep downloading packets, which I have been
DC> RS> working through. I am now about 7 days behind the date of this
DC> RS> download packet.
DC> I've still got a few older messages to reply to, myself. Thing
DC> is, as I get the time to rescan them and reply, the perpetrator
DC> of the idiocy that needed the reply has long since flown the
DC> coop and was shot down in flames on the attempted escape!
Yeah, sad how they take a powder so quickly. We could try and
work on Al B :) :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:27:14
EID:3eab 2246bb60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9f852
* On 02-02-97 at 13:54, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
DC> DC> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
DC> DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
DC> DC> of the water.
DC> RS> The one asking me to show where he's anti-gay? :) *ROFL*
DC> Staal always contradicts himself in time.
But that's because the bible leads by example :) :)
DC> However, in this case he managed to do it all in the same packet.
What a classic, huh? :) :) Sorta lives up to that Staal of Borg
tag line :) :)
DC> Saves a lot of time and we should be greatful for that.
Yeah, it does. No need for archives, for now :)
Rod "...but that could change" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: The impact of pig's wings on lingustics
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Dupes
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:41:16
EID:046e 2246bd20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9fb9c
* On 27-01-97 at 19:17, PAUL DAVIS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Dupes" in echo Holysmoke:
PD> Hi Rod :)
PD> Not a complaint just some info: You're duping badly buddy.
PD> I don't know who's fault it is but I got 167 dupes today
PD> and they were all sent by you. Just thought you'd like to know.
Umm... Wasn't me! :)
Rod "...might be an Al conspiracy! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Schroedinger may have been here
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: AIDS
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:55:18
EID:701b 2246bee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9fee6
* On 01-02-97 at 12:54, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: AIDS" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> MG>> He will not do it. His pal hasn't and he won't.
MG> RS> :( What a shame. Good riddance to two pieces of human garbage
MG> RS> if they ever actually (and verifiably) did :)
MG> Thewe are seriously fucked persons. I have had a difficult
MG> time figuring their agenda. they claim not to be fundies
MG> or anti gay. Maybe they're just crazy.
They are definitely frootloops, but until now they have not
aligned themselves with any of the religious right-wing lunatics,
even though most of their philosophy (that HIV is due to
lifestyle *choices*) equates to the traditional garbage we're
used to from the religious right-wing political arena.
MG> RS> What a shame. Makes me wish I was a fly on the wall. Hey, maybe
MG> RS> the next time I'm in Austin, I can visit Terry :) :)
MG> You got more courage than I do.
Oh, I'm sure he's a fine person in person :) :)
Rod "...but who'd ever want to martyr him?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Double Standard Ken!
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:57:20
EID:f8e9 2246bf20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9ff60
* On 01-02-97 at 13:04, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Double Standard Ken!" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> RS> Reminds me of the Dallas County Commissioners, and their federal
MG> RS> funding. I believe they lost their HIV-combat funding?
MG> Those morons turned down federal funds for STD awareness
MG> and so forth because all they wanted to do was to teach
MG> abstinance. The fact that someone might have to utter the
MG> word "condom" made them turn it down.
MG> However, pressure from the medical school, from those int
MG> he field of STD research (as is yours truly) made them go
MG> ahead and take the..the...er..
MG> I forget but it was soemthing like 500k I believe.
I think it was $600K and wasn't it threatened that if the county
commissioners didn't do the disease-control-education, that
one of the medical centres was quite happy to take the money and
do the work.
Oh, then, when they realised that NO money would go to the
commissioners, they backed down :) :)
Rod "...hey, but that's how money and politics, and religious
ethics, work" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:58:22
EID:f456 2246bf40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9ff9e
* On 02-02-97 at 20:04, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Masturbation" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> RS> If this is the same document I'm thinking about, it has such
SQ> RS> wisdom as "If you can't stop thinking about it, go and make a
SQ> RS> sandwich", and to "keep a little calendar, and colour in days
SQ> I can't recall the specifics, as someone has (from time to
SQ> time) posted a text file from the LDS about how to NOT get
SQ> aroused, and I have a feeling I'd confuse the two. Give me
SQ> a few months and I'll share some tidbits. :)
I'll try and find my copy here :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Fundamentalist: (n) Ape-like creature with a Bible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Christ-Like / Con...
|Date: 06 Feb 97 23:58:24
EID:b054 2246bf40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f9ffa0
* On 01-02-97 at 19:23, ROGER HUNTER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "CHRIST-LIKE / CONTRAD" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> RS> Free will has always been, and will always be, contradictory to
RH> RS> the intent of the Christian faith -- mental enslavery to
RH> RS> a non-existent deity construct.
RH> But Rod, they NEED free will. How else can they burn you for
RH> freely choosing to be gay?
:) :) But they don't have free will NOT to burn me :)
You are fun :)
Rod "...hehehe" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Goodbye /1
|Date: 06 Feb 97 00:00:26
EID:c035 22460000
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f8ae9a
* On 01-02-97 at 01:44, DAN CEPPA wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Goodbye /1" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> This is what I like about you Jim. You're so vacuous. If you
DC> RS> don't know what it means, look it up in the dictionary, Mr
DC> RS> Erudite :)
DC> JS> yeah, typical response from Rod Swift. Nothing he knows by experience,
DC> JS> merely by hearsay.
DC> He's read your inane posts, Jimbo. Your infamy is by your
DC> own writing.
I just loved the way he resorted to an ad hominem attack, rather
than answer the question :) :)
DC> Now, get the dictionary from under your trailer and use it
DC> for once.
Oh my... That's where it is :) :) Propping up the lop-sided
trailor on the "expansive" Staal Estate [with trademark three
potted plants! :)]
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the fertiliser for Jim's plants" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Feb 97 00:19:28
EID:868d 22460260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f8b310
* On 01-02-97 at 23:58, DAN CEPPA wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 31 Jan 97 18:37:02, Ken Young got back to Jan deBoer
DC> Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle, Ken!
DC> Jd> Must be tough going nude this time of year!
DC> KY> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
DC> KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
DC> Just who was that youth running out of the garden of Gethsemane?
Just for my reference later, scriptural reference?
But for fun, here's my fave set of homo-satisfying quotes of the
bible with those famous gays David and Jonathan:
1 Samuel 18:1-4
---------------
1 SAM 18:1 -- Saul and David finished their conversation.
After that, Saul's son Jonathan was DEEPLY ATTRACTED
TO DAVID and CAME TO LOVE HIM as much as he LOVED
HIMSELF.
1 SAM 18:2 -- Saul kept David with him from that day
on and did not let him go back home.
1 SAM 18:3 -- Jonathan swore ETERNAL FRIENDSHIP with
David because of his DEEP AFFECTION for him.
1 SAM 18:4 -- He TOOK OFF THE ROBE HE WAS WEARING and
gave it to David, together with his armor and
also his sword, bow and belt.
1 Samuel 20:41-42
-----------------
1 SAM 20:41 -- After the boyhad left, David got up from
behind the pile of stones, fell on his knees and
bowed with his face to the ground three times.
Both he and Jonathan WERE CRYING AS THEY KISSED
EACH OTHER; David's grief was even greater than
Jonathan's.
1 SAM 20:42 -- Then Jonathan said to David, "God be with
you. The Lord will make sure that you and I, and
your descendants and mine, will forever keep the
SACRED PROMISE we have made TO EACH OTHER." Then
David left and Jonathan went back to the town.
2 Samuel 1:25-26
----------------
2 SAM 1:25 -- "The brave soldiers have fallen, they were
killed in battle. Jonathan lies dead in the hills."
2 SAM 1:26 -- "I grieve for you, my brother Jonathan; HOW
DEAR YOU WERE TO ME! How WONDERFUL was your LOVE
for me, BETTER EVEN THAN THE LOVE OF WOMEN!"
Yep... they were faaaaaaggots :)
Rod "...now watch the Christians squirm about the fact their
bible actually not only claims that homosexual love is ok, but
can surpass that of the love of a woman!!!!" Swift :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Feb 97 00:24:30
EID:9a0b 22460300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f8b43e
* On 31-01-97 at 20:24, ALAN HESS wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
AH> KY> Why think abnout homosexuality? Maybe because I was replying to
AH> KY> what someone else said..
AH> KY> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was
AH> KY> never meant to be.
Read 1 SAM 18:1-4, 1 SAM 20:41-42 and 2 SAM 1:25-26
Rod "Your bible clearly supports same-gender relationships." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Baker
|Sub: Re: I can't take...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:07:32
EID:3103 224900e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca4c4
* On 31-01-97 at 01:47, CHRISTOPHER BAKER wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Re: I can't take this any" in echo Holysmoke:
CB> > I've been living a lie. I can't continue to lie any longer.
CB> > I AM A CHRISTIAN AND I'M PROUD OF IT!
CB> it's not April 1st.
No no no. It was proof yet again that George Mooth was right,
and that "Satan makes Fredric lie" :)
Rod "...heck, Satan controls me apparently" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Websites Etc.
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:12:34
EID:4a64 22490180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca5f2
* On 02-02-97 at 01:51, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Websites Etc." in echo Holysmoke:
DG> The Hope Page==> a page where I share thoughts from the Bible, to point
you
DG> towards a right relationship to God & encourage you along the way
DG> http://members.tripod.com/~DJGONZA/index.html
Do the lesbians have great bazongas at your site?
For an interesting perspective on equality, go to
http://www.nether.net/~rod/html/sub/story.html
DG> Christ's Love,
Get out the movie "The Sum of Us" and watch it. Learn about real
family values.
Rod "...have a nice day!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just stand there!!! Kneel!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Re: J.J. needs to...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:14:36
EID:7cd2 224901c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca66c
* On 02-02-97 at 02:06, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to DAVID RAGLAND,
on the topic of "Re: J.J. needs to be Hitt" in echo Holysmoke:
DG> Man, I can't make it any clearer than this: without Christ you
DG> are a lost sinner, and bound for an eternity first in hell,
DG> then in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20).
Hello Darryl.
You know, the guilt trip and threat of eternal damnation would
work so much better on us heathens if the threat were, ipso
facto, real :)
Rod "...I expect some jet engines to kick in now, as another
fly-by occurs" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:17:38
EID:7dff 22490220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca722
* On 01-02-97 at 01:29, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "J.J. needs to be Hitt" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> You yourself could do with some learning. You could learn well from
DR> biblical tenets even if you remained devoid of belief in any God.
You could do from viewing and holding some of the philosophies of
some of the freethought/humanist/atheistic organisations. Here's
a start on your merry way:
http://www.infidels.org/
http://www.humanist.org/
http://www.atheist.org/
One does not need a deity-construct to live.
Rod "...learn it, boy" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Give Christians Prozac, not Government Office!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:22:40
EID:a4c8 224902c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca850
* On 01-02-97 at 03:15, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> FR> My guess is you know zero about biology and molecular biology.
But then
DR> FR> were
DR> You guessed wrong.
DR> FR> you to learn you wouldn't be able to continue being as Christanic
death
DR> FR> cultist.
DR> And just why not? These studies do nothing more than unlock the
DR> mysteries of God's creation.
Yeah... like that little ol' mystery about how science
contradicts the existence of God :)
DR> I don't have to be a scientist to have a working knowledge of
DR> science no more that you have to be a theologian to have a working
DR> knowledge of Christianity.
Strange. When we use scripture to debunk your type of fundy, the
said fundy always returns with the cat call of "atheists can't
know the bible" or that we have "no authority" to speak on such
matters.
Further, I put it to you that if we apply your principle, the
next time you need major surgery, I'll volunteer to do the
operation. After all, "I don't have to be a surgeon to have a
working knowledge of surgery".
Note. Medicine is a science. You made the claim that anyone can
practice any of the sciences without expertise.
Rod "... I'll see you on the operating table, cadaver!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Time is an illusion of the manufacturers of space
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Information and Origin
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:24:42
EID:26e1 22490300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fca8ca
* On 01-02-97 at 03:44, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Information and Origin" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> The sequence of nucleotides in DNA or of amino acids in a protein
is
DR> like the letters in a written message, right? Is this not evidence
of
DR> design? Can you not see this? Come on.
The next time I want to curl up and read a good novel in bed,
I'll get a sample of someone's DNA to read :) :)
Rod "Should make for an interesting yet virtually random sequence of
four different patterns interlocked into a helix shape. And
maybe the letters we use to represent the nucleotide sequence
would make an interesting, yet boringly one-tracked, 'novel'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:30:44
EID:6782 224903c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcaa34
* On 01-02-97 at 14:41, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Wonder Woman Comics win" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> FR> It's a supreme irony that there are people who still
DR> FR> pretend to believe in the Christanic myths when there
DR> FR> are so many superior ones to choose from.
DR> I believe it is _you_ who pretends with regards to "atheism."
No. Agnosticism, and atheism, are null sets of religion. They
are what you have when you *don't* pretend or hold *superstition*.
It could be argued that the lack-of-religion is a higher form of
human psychological evolution, having departed from meaningless
and delusional scripture and fairy tales and myths, and moved on
to rationality, thought, understanding and the desire to seek the
answers to all the questions of the universe around us.
Most religion that is deity-of-threat in nature has no value to
humanity whatsoever. Some humanistic religions do have a small
portion of value in helping a person, but since these are
normally devoid of any deity-of-threat-constructs, I'd say they
are a step up from the mental slavery that is a deity-of-threat
religion.
Rod "...have you ever considered dispensing with your deity, and
choosing a path of human-inspired, rather than deistic-threatened,
fulfilment?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If this is reality I want a refund!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:35:46
EID:5206 22490460
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcab62
* On 01-02-97 at 15:35, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to DON MARTIN,
on the topic of "Fundies" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> Before you scream back, "Atheism is no more a religion
DR> than baldness is a hair color!" consider this line of thought:
DR> If you are so set against the idea that any God exist, why are you in
DR> this echo?
If you are so set against the idea that no *other* God can exist,
why are YOU here?
DR> If you are so totally certain that the Christians are full of
DR> beans, why do you bother bandying words with us?
If you are so totally certain that Christianity is the only
truth, why do you bother bandying words with us?
DR> What a waste of time it is for you to fight against something that
DR> you do not believe exists.
It's because we love you and care for your spiritual being and
want you to be a (non-)follower of Jesus.
DR> I would not waste my time talking to them about that belief because,
I am
DR> totally assured of the Easter Bunny's mythological status. If I had
doubts,
DR> however... I would challenge them to prove their belief to me.
I am an agnostic. That is the belief that "I cannot know at this
time if there are god(s) or not". I am also atheistic, that is,
that since no evidence has been provided "at this time, there are
no god(s)".
I offer you the chance to *objectively* and *independently* prove
and *provide the scientific evidence* of your deity-construct.
I offer everyone the chance.
Remember, we love you, and so does Star Goat, and the Invisible
Pink Unicorn! *fnord*!
Rod "That is, of course, before they have their faith completely
destroyed by the fact that it is clearly not provable" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:38:48
EID:7dff 224904c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcac18
* On 01-02-97 at 16:07, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "J.J. needs to be Hitt" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> MG> It's wonderful that you believe this nonsense. do you have
DR> MG> any evidence for it?
DR> Why, yes. As a matter of fact, I do. ;) Look to your own evidence
DR> first though, ok?
Awww. What a meanie. You won't actually provide the evidence to us.
One may say, possibly, because you don't have any? :) :)
Rod "...bwhahahahahah. Another one gets slayed in the name of
atheism! Praise Darwin!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: ACLU News 01-27-97: Bus
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:39:50
EID:e358 224904e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcac56
* On 31-01-97 at 14:29, DAVID WORRELL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "ACLU News 01-27-97: Bus A" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 29 Jan 97 15:54, Fredric Rice wrote to Terry Liberty-Parker:
DW> FR> Hi again, you fucking lunatic nut. Or should I call you "General"
DW> FR> now?
DW> General? Do you know something about the fruitcake that you
DW> haven't shared with the rest of us?
Generals may, or may not, command battalions of TANKS!!! :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus died for our sins, so let's not disappoint him
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:45:52
EID:d15e 224905a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcadc0
* On 01-02-97 at 07:16, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Hypocritical people" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-
JB> DC> Thanks! It didn't scan in my o/l or show up in the small
JB> DC> dictionary I have. I think I'll have to invest in a OED.
JB> Another case for net access.
JB> http://www.onelook.com/index.html
JB> DICTIONARY...actually dictionaries. Several of them.
I have a cool Windows program called Win Webster :) You can
connect to citi.umich.edu 2627 and get words using it :)
Then cut and paste :) :)
Rod "...totemo benri!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:48:54
EID:9a0b 22490600
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcae76
* On 31-01-97 at 08:33, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> FR> Nearly every race hate organization in the United
KY> FR> States is a Christian organization which meets in
KY> FR> Christanic churches. The KKK, Aryan Nations, Church of
KY> FR> Jesus Christ Christian, all the Identity brand names,
KY> FR> the Sword and the Cross, Mormons, Baptists, Focus on
KY> FR> the Family... they're all hate organizations, Ken, and
KY> FR> every one of them Christian.
KY> All hate organizations? Even Focus On the Family?!?
Ever seen any of their anti-Semitic ranting?
KY> And, oh yes, a "hate group" is one of hatred towards other
KY> groups, not necessarily just a group that disagrees with
KY> your beliefs.
Oh, well, FotF makes it in for their anti-gay stances :) :)
Rod "...most Christanic right wing christer groups in the US are
hate groups" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:50:56
EID:043d 22490640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcaef0
* On 01-02-97 at 23:30, KEN YOUNG wrote to RONALD VASS,
on the topic of "Naked Pagan Rituals" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> RV> * SLMR 2.1a * Dead Babies go to Hell. -- Psalms 58:3 --
KY> May be just a tagline, but I had to respond.. In my Bible
KY> it says: The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go
KY> astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
KY> Nowhere does it say babies will go to Hell.. Rather it is
KY> reemphasizing that we are born with a wicked nature.. But,
KY> babies do not go to Hell, simply because they are not at
KY> the age of accountability yet.
Scriptural reference, please, to this age of accountability, and
the actual age in years, please.
Rod "...can you provide that?" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * And God said: E = +mv} - Ze}/r... and there *was* light!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 09 Feb 97 00:53:58
EID:6012 224906a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcafa6
* On 01-02-97 at 19:05, MARILYN BURGE wrote to JOHN MUSSELWHITE,
on the topic of "Black lipstick" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> JM> It's a lot older than that. The word is Anglo-Saxon and
MB> JM> apparantly derives from the ancient low German word "Fokken".
MB> JM> It's been in common use for many, many centuries.
MB> DW> fooling around in port, the reason for punishment was entered in
the
MB> DW> log as "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", or the acronym F.U.C.K.
for
MB> JM> Thats a folk tale that's been around a long time... However
MB> JM> fanciful it is, according to the books it's untrue.
MB> You're both wrong. During Victorian times, they were very pickey
MB> about the words they used. So, when wanting to tell readers that
MB> two characters in a book were making whooppee, they'd type F U C K
MB> followed by an asterisk, then at the bottom of the page, they'd
MB> put in a footnote "Found Under Carnal Knowledge."
MB> I know that's true, because my sister told me and swore it is true,
MB> and she NEVER lies (unless she can make a good story better).
Well, it's an ol' urban legend. Fuck comes from 16th century
Germanic languages, and from earlier Dutch word fokken -- to
strike.
Rod "...at least, that's what the number of dictionaries and
other sources I could find all say" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:00:00
EID:fccf 22490800
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb110
* On 02-02-97 at 20:31, MARK KIMES wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "..." in echo Holysmoke:
MK> AS> OTOH, it is clear that God does NOT heed the prayers of the wicked.
MK> AS> John 9:31. "Now we know that God heareth not sinners;"
MK> HP> By their paradoxes shall ye know them. You've just made it impossible
MK> HP> for sinners to pray for salvation, Al. :-)
MK> AS> Perhaps you have heard the verse, "I came not to call the righteous,
MK> AS> but sinners to repentence..."??
MK> DC> Another paradox that you can't explain, Al.
MK> Really, especially since Al's already quoted a verse that makes
MK> it impossible for sinners to answer the call.
Of course, you forget the first rule of the conservation of
biblical energy:
For every scriptural verse, there is an equal and
opposite scriptural verse...
This is so that Christians can claim that they are "following"
the bible no matter how many times they flip-flop on issues.
Rod "...It's an in-built salvation-from-reality thing" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus died for our sins, so let's not disappoint him
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:02:02
EID:016a 22490840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb18a
* On 31-01-97 at 21:30, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cooks" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> JS> (just to assist in getting your personal goat)
MG> Is a personal goat anything like a personal savior?
Oh my Goat!!! Jim is possessed by the spirit of Star Goat!
We can start calling Jimbozo "Mr Methane"! :)
Rod "... I'm imagining it now... Jim chasing around deity
constructs, eating them, and farting them out! *rofl*" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:11:04
EID:bd82 22490960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb3a8
* On 02-02-97 at 13:03, J.J. HITT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> RS>> Let me guess.... A Pancho's Mexican Buffet? :) Taco
JH> RS>> Bell?
JH> First I said:
JH> JH> Nah... I may not have any more class than that, but they
JH> JH> did: it was at a Ninfa's.
JH> But then I thinks I better qualify that...
JH> Ninfa's is just a little too whitebread for me. What do expect
JH> from a place that counts George Bush as one of their
JH> customers?
Errrgh. I know why there was a reason why I preferred Pancho's :)
George Bush Senior, or the Current Governor George Bush Jnr?
Dog-forbid that it's BOTH!?!?!?! :) :)
JH> But Taco Bell? Nah... my preference in Mexican places tends towards
JH> the authentic: little brown kids and other varmits running in and
JH> out of the kitchen, at least one customer passed out on the floor
JH> and no shit paper in the restrooms.
Wowoooo! Authentico! :)
Rod "...the sign of a good Mexican restaurant is the lack of
toilet paper, because it passes straight through you :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:13:06
EID:6b5e 224909a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb422
* On 02-02-97 at 11:57, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Ejaculation" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> RS>KW> GM>GM> WE ARE SAVED NOT BY WHAT WE DO
KW> RS>KW> GM>GM> BUT BY WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE.
KW> RS>KW> GM>RS>So you're saying Jerkers For Jesus should disband?
KW> RS>KW> GM>You seem to have a fixation on masterbation. But then I dont't
KW> RS>KW> GM>suppose many women want to get to close to you, eh?
KW> RS>KW> Are you really this dense?
KW> RS>He probably wants to date me, Katherine :) :)
KW> Only because he thinks that all he has to do is buy you a coke and a
KW> hamburger and you'll do anything.
I come across as *that* easy, do I?
Hey! Patrick Humphrey... You reading this? Am I "easy"?
[Rod hopefully jogs Mr Humphrey into remembering what sorta
stunts we used to pull about 'Rod and Chris slept with Patrick
and Dale-Ann' :) :) After all, it was true. We had the living
room floor, and they were safely tucked away in bed with kitties
safely inside pillow-cases :) :) *mrrrow!*]
Rod "...ah, those were the days. I hear that Patrick is giving
Chris and I a wedding present or two that shed fur :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Heat [1/2]
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:23:08
EID:b2e1 22490ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb67c
* On 30-01-97 at 23:41, ANDREW MASTEN wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Heat [1/2]" in echo Holysmoke:
AM> RS> Oh really? Care to provide some of the evidence that supports
AM> RS> that theory?
AM> RS> In fact, we've never had a Christian provide a point-by-point
AM> RS> summary of the theory with a list of major evidentiary points,
AM> RS> yet. Care to do that for us?
AM> Who's us Rod? Do you have a fan club?
Actually, I do. I did work in radio. Had a huge fan club :)
AM> 1. Scientists think the universe started from a explosion of
AM> a singularity in an event known as the big bang. At the moment
AM> of this big bang time and the laws of physics came into existence.
-----------------------------------
Do you claim this because if the laws of physics did exist prior
to such a big bang, your God would not exist?
AM> In our entire existence no one knows of an uncaused event.
Look up a definition of "spontaneous" and get back to us :)
AM> Since time or the laws of physics did not come into existence until
AM> after the big bang whatever or who ever caused the big bang must
AM> have been out of the realm of time and physics.
Assumption invalid. You have not proven that the laws of
physics, nor time, did *NOT* exist prior to the big bang. If you
cannot prove such things by evidence and methodology, then your
hypothesis fails.
AM> Moreover, no known laws of physics could create the big bang
AM> since they were created by the big bang.
Invalid assumption. You have not yet proven that the laws of
physics did not exist prior to the big bang, nor the causality of
the laws of physics *by* the big bang.
AM> 2. There are at least 25 known constants in the universe
AM> necessary for life as we know it and some for any life at all.
Please list these constants.
AM> Moreover, there are an infinite amount of permutations the
AM> universe could have taken to the exclusion of any one being
AM> around to ponder how we got here.
And just as there are infinite "seed" combinations for life in
different parts of the universe, no doubt some have failed, and
some have succeeded.
This planet is an example of random seeding of the universe being
successful in producing chains of amino acids and life.
AM> 1. Strong nuclear force constant
AM> 2. Weak nuclear force constant
AM> 3. Gravitational force constant
AM> 4. Electromagnetic force constant
AM> 5. Ratio of electromagnetic force constant to gravitational force
AM> 6. Ratio of electron to protron mass
AM> 7. Ratio of protron to number of electrons
AM> 8. Expansion rate of universe
AM> 9. Entropy level of universe
AM> 10. Mass density of universe
AM> 11. Velocity of light
AM> 12. Age of universe
AM> 13. Initial uniformity of radiation
AM> 14. Fine structure constant( a number used to describe the fine
AM> 15. Average distance between stars
AM> 16. Decay rate of proton
AM> 17. C to O nuclear energy level ratio
AM> 18. Ground state energy level for HE
AM> 19. Decay rate of BE
AM> 20. Mass excess of nuetron over the proton
AM> 21. Intial excess of nucleons over antinucleons
AM> 22. Polarity of water molecule
You failed to provide any evidence for the statements you made in
all of these areas.
Suffice it to say, these areas of argument are dependent on your
claims of an intelligent being "fine tuning" such areas. Of
course, the evidence of conduciveness to life and/or universe
building is not correlatable to a deity-construct.
All these things, and the claim of "no laws of physics prior to
big bang" is no proof of a deity. In fact, you failed to provide
evidence to prove your first hypothesis, and hence eliminated the
other 22 "one-liner" hypotheses above.
Rod "...try again" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:24:10
EID:ca8d 22490b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb6ba
* On 02-02-97 at 01:31, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel Boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> PA> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should
KY> PA> actually be the pilot. We should let Him take over, and
KY> PA> just enjoy the ride.
KY> RS> Ecstacy does a better job...
KY> RS> Rod "...but I'm not into drugs" Swift
KY> How do you know? Did you ever truly compare the two?
No, I have not. However, I base my observation on the behaviour
of others who claim to have experienced the drug before, and the
thrill of being a passenger in a car.
Rod "...they tell me that ecstacy is better than a trip to the
shops with mother any day!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:26:12
EID:9127 22490b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb734
* On 02-02-97 at 03:00, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> JS> RS> Bullshit. Many ex-Davidians had reported the acts perpetrated
KY> JS> RS> inside the cult's ranks. There'd even been quite indepth
KY> JS> RS> journalist reports into the cult's activities, the division
and
KY> JS> RS> rift that formed that led Vernon Howell to the leadership of
the
KY> JS> RS> cult and the ousting of previous cult leaders, etc, etc.
KY> JS> But there was no proof.
KY> RS> You say that so boldly. Wasn't there a congressional
KY> RS> investigation?
KY> YEah, right.. If you believe that one, I have some nice
KY> WHitewater property to show you.. :) AN investigation,
KY> maybe, but hardly a non-bias one.. The reports that came
KY> from the government were full of lies.
Really? Document them for the echo, perhaps? Please do provide
quotes :)
KY> And if you knew what you were talking about, you would
KY> realize that those that said those lies about Koresh that
KY> were Davidians, were mainly those that wanted to take over
KY> the group, and weren't happy that he did.
Oh yeah, right :) We have some very nice Davidians who were
Australians :) :)
KY> RS> Rod "...oh, that's not evidence. It's not in your bible (which
KY> RS> alternates, probably, between the Holy Bible, and the guidebook
KY> RS> issued by the Michigan Militia, no?)" Swift :)
KY> And do you really know anything at all about the Michigan
KY> Militia? No? I didn't think so..
Yes, in fact, I do :) :)
Rod "...it's amazing what you can read on their home page :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:27:14
EID:040f 22490b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb772
* On 02-02-97 at 03:13, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> JS> RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
KY> JS> RS> man march on Washington?
KY> JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is
KY> RS> organizing the first million
KY> JS> man march on Washington.
KY> RS> Third, actually.
KY> RS> You follow a:
KY> RS> * March on Washington for gay rights.
KY> RS> * Million Man March for African American rights.
KY> RS> But then, since the Promisefilth have reservations to both the
KY> RS> abovementioned groups, they've conveeeeniently forgotten them :)
KY> Or could it be that neither were million man marches? The
KY> numbers did not quite reach that high.
Well, the Parks service severely underestimates crowds in
Washington :) :)
Rod "... of course, you may eat your words when the promisefilth
fail to make 1,000,000 assholes for Jesus later this year :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: What are you claiming no
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:29:16
EID:389c 22490ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcb7ec
* On 02-02-97 at 03:17, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "What are you claiming no" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> FR> Are you claiming that "David Koresh" was having sex with children?
KY> RS> *boing*. Please restate a single question :)
KY> RS> There are documented reports of Vernon having his wicked way with
KY> RS> teenagers, from memory. I'll see what I can dig up from the
KY> RS> archives around here.
KY> Please do, as it isn't true.. Psychologists went in beforehand, and
could
KY> find no sign of it. There was no proof of any child abuse
KY> in any way at all..
So he didn't marry all those under-16-year-olds? Never had a
harem? Never boinked them silly?
Rod "... Oh, this is Texas. That sorta thing happens all the
time, right :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:38:26
EID:3e6c 22490cc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcba12
Hey all --
Another Reuters report that I've been meaning to rebroadcast to
show everyone how that God Of Love shows his love to his faithful
:) :)
Enjoy, and remember, God could strike YOU down, sinners!!! P.S.
For reference, the party was one for a religious congregation :)
The Arabic Baptists of Melbourne, or some other such group.
So not only is God a killer, he kills from his own flock, and
leaves children orphans. Praise Jesus!
___-------------------------------------------------------------
01:53 AM ET 01/27/97
Two dead, two orphaned in Australia lightning strike
MELBOURNE, Jan 27 (Reuter) - Lightning killed an Australian
couple on Monday as their two young sons looked on during a
picnic in the southern city of Geelong, police said.
The family and friends had taken shelter in a metal-roofed
rotunda after a storm broke out while they were picnicking in a
public park. The bolt of lightning struck when the group were in
the rotunda, a police spokesman told Reuters.
"We have had a very, very traumatic scene. It's been
absolute chaos," said Inspector Tim Attrill of Geelong police.
The woman died instantly and attempts at the scene to revive
her husband failed, he said. A second woman was resuscitated and
taken to hospital in critical condition, while others suffered
burned feet, chest pain and trauma.
"Two little boys aged 10 and 12 are now orphaned and were
at the scene when their parents were killed," Attrill said. He
described the park's rotunda as a "perfect conductor."
Police said it was not clear whether the children were in
the rotunda or close by.
___-------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Dupes
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:49:30
EID:97e1 22490e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcbcaa
* On 03-02-97 at 18:30, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to PAUL DAVIS,
on the topic of "Dupes" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Paul Davis said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Rod Swift <=-
JB> PD> Not a complaint just some info: You're duping badly buddy. I don't
JB> Must be on your end. I don't think I've EVER seen a dupe from Rod.
But if I ever did dupe, Judith, it'd be a *big one* --wink--
Rod "... and the men would be left jaw-dropped...allowing for me
to easily... well, you get the idea" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:54:32
EID:4931 22490ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcbdd8
* On 01-02-97 at 17:00, ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
on the topic of "Convention on the Rights" in echo Holysmoke:
AG> Here is a transcript:-
AG> The Convention on the Rights of the Child - 1/2
AG> Australia signed the Convention on August 22, 1990, and is now
AG> preparing to ratify and use it as a basis for Australian law.
AG> The process of ratification will once again signal a commitment by
AG> Australian Federal and State politicians to implement and impose
AG> foreign laws upon Australians.
AG> The Australian Constitution does not provide them with this
AG> authority. The function of Australian parliaments is to determine
AG> Australian laws in strict accordance with the will of the
AG> Australian people. It's not their function to be used by political
AG> parties for the purpose of adopting foreign laws determined by a
AG> non-elected political consortium. This is high treason!
...The Australian Constitution clearly enumerates the Federal
Government the right to adopt and write laws relating to external
affairs.
The adoption of an *Australian* law based upon keeping
Australia's treaty commitments is completely within the powers of
the Federal Government, as mandated by the Constitution.
Most nations that sign treaties then proceed to implement the
treaty through the adoption and passage of suitable LOCAL laws to
support the treaty. Some nations do not.
The Federal parliament has not strayed from it's function of
passing laws for the administration of this nation.
Rod "...you are an ignorant buffoon :) :)" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 09 Feb 97 01:58:34
EID:4931 22490f40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcbeca
* On 01-02-97 at 17:00, ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
on the topic of "Convention on the Rights" in echo Holysmoke:
AG> Today parents pander to their children; playing child games with
AG> them,
oooh... the humanity!
AG> talking and relating to them as equals;
how dare we affirm them as people!!!
AG> dressing them as if they are seductive little adults.
JonBenet Ramsay was raped and murdered because she asked for it!!!!!!!!
AG> This is no chance evolution. It's a conspiracy accomplished by
AG> deliberate social engineering. Such is the power of deception.
AG> Wake up, Christian!
With a religion like yours, I'd find it hard to stay awake. It's
so stagnant and outdated, and irrelevant.
AG> The destruction of childhood is happening right in front of our
AG> eyes.
Yes, it's little children being raped by church pastors that is
one of the big problems? Care to start stamping that out,
Giggles?
Rod "...P.S. all the responses here have been completely
sardonic, but of course!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * He's your God, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 09 Feb 97 02:03:36
EID:4931 22491060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcbff8
* On 01-02-97 at 17:04, ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
on the topic of "Convention on the Rights" in echo Holysmoke:
AG> Before the first weeks of school are up, the little five and six
AG> year olds will have been systematically weaned on pictures of
AG> dinosaurs and evolution theory. Almost before they hold a pencil,
AG> they're put through values clarification processes to be taught
AG> it's O.K. to reject whatever traditional moral values their
AG> parents are teaching them. From then until the time they leave
AG> school, they'll have been confronted with situation ethics, death
AG> education, suicide education, drug education, assertiveness
AG> training, pornography, sex instruction on how to masturbate,
AG> fornicate, and engage in homosexual acts, and even in some
AG> schools, incest and bestiality; witchcraft, protective behaviors
AG> programs, alternative family lifestyles, abortion, AIDS education
AG> and so on.
ROFL!!!!!
I wish I went to school in Australia in the post-70s!
Hey, wait a minute. I *DID*! :) :) I'm wondering about the
absences from school that I had. I missed out on:
* Homosexual Sex Acts 101 (with advanced fisting)
* How to Masturbate 101 (with advanced lubricants)
* How to Commit Suicide in Three Easy Steps (I hear they
need a new teacher for each class *grin*)
* Witchcraft 101 -- Pacts with Saytan!
* Bestiality and You -- Life education for the Farmyard!
* Abortion 101 -- How to self-abort with a coathanger!
...to name just a few.
Care to cite specific examples and quote from the SYLLABUS where
these things are being taught, Giggles?
Rod "...or can't you back them up with evidence?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Feb 97 02:05:38
EID:fa62 224910a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcc072
* On 29-01-97 at 20:48, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle, Ken!
RS> Jd> Must be tough going nude this time of year!
RS> ky> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
RS> ky> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
RS> Oh really? Evidence for this? What about Jesus with the
RS> naked boy in the garden?
Got a scriptural reference for that :) :)
RS> ... Creative Bible use #5: David & Jonathan lovers? ISam 1:26/20:41/18:3-4
Ah, that's 2 SAM 1:26, 1 SAM 20:41-42 and 1 SAM 18:1-4 :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Does killing time damage eternity?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Feb 97 02:06:40
EID:f07c 224910c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcc0b0
* On 02-02-97 at 11:42, KEN YOUNG wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> DC> Think quick: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
KY> DC> And, just what two gods screwed each other to make your god?
KY> Easy.. The chicken, as God made the chicken with the
KY> capability to reproduce, so we would have more chickens.
KY> And God has always been. He has no beginning, nor end. He just is.
Evidence??? Proof!?!?!
Rod "...I thought not!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Arachnohomophobia: Fear of gay spiders
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Feb 97 02:15:42
EID:9927 224911e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcc2ce
* On 03-02-97 at 07:59, JAN DEBOER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
JD> KY> People go through hard times, and in some cases, truly terrible
JD> KY> times, but there is a reason for everything to be allowed.
JD> KY> One thing is man has turned against God, and has decided they
JD> KY> want to follow Satan instead, so God will let them have their way
JD> KY> for awhile, and we see with the idseases, rapists, etc., where
JD> KY> that has taken us..
JD> And the REASON your kind, loving, fatherly god gives leukemia to
JD> innocent children is?
...so that ignorant, moronic Christians can go up to the said
child who has only known a life of suffering, smile with that
oh-so-loving-yet-fake plastic-smile-of-Jesus, pat them on the
head, and put in a measly dime into the collection plate for
medical research into leukaemia, and say:
"JESUS LOVES YOU!"
How else would God provide an outlet for all that pent-up love
that we all know and have come to *respect* Christians for... :(
Rod "...on Sunday, the Christian will put $20 into the collection
plate at their church, to support the excesses of a church that is
probably led by a pastor that a) abuses children sexually, b) abuses
the wives of his parishmembers sexually, c) abuses children
physically, d) abuses members of the public physically, e) has a big
house and car paid for by your money, f) has a wife that has a
lavish desire for furs and diamonds, g) seeks to pass laws to
destroy the rights of minority groups, h) any combination of the
above, i) all of the above..." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Could crop circles be the work of a cereal killer?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: witch burnings
|Date: 09 Feb 97 02:22:44
EID:7157 224912c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32fcc474
* On 03-02-97 at 14:29, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "witch burnings" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> I have just been perusing a few days of Al Schroeder's personal online
JB> journal.
JB> I have also captured a part of it and will be taking it to my attorney
JB> for review. It seems that Al is taking situations he has been told about
JB> in this echo and in irc and publishing them for the world to see, without
JB> consent and without taking care that the person not named is not
JB> recognizable to others.
I do hope that he does not publish anything that is about me.
This is exactly the reason why many participants told me to "NOT
TRUST AL" when I arrived.
I failed to heed the advice. I fear for what he could do to the
information that he might know about me. As for all faith in
humanity, Al is an example of someone that should never be trusted.
JB> For a year now, several of us have been upset at Al's tendency to take
JB> ownership of any situation he is told about from any of the participants
JB> here...and to use them for his own self-aggrandizement.
One-gazillion-percent on the mark with this statement, Judith.
JB> Before Al can do his 'I'm so sorry I made Judith uncomfortable' routine
JB> again, I want to say in no uncertain terms:
JB> I AM NOT UNCOMFORTABLE...I AM MAD AS HELL.
He will still say you are uncomfortable, try and SPINDOCTOR it
into a "you misunderstood me, Judith", and pray to his deity that
it blows over.
JB> And if you elect to go away again, Al, don't come back.
You actually think he can resist? I actually have this crazy
suspicion he lives for the effect of stirring up the hornet's
nests :(
The best solution is to never trust him with anything personal
ever again, no matter how slippery and slimy he acts to try and
get into your life.
Rod "...I feel sorry for you Judith. His manipulation of you and
others is damnable. I do actually hope, for his sake, there is a
hell for him to eternally burn in..." Swift *hug*
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: [2/2] He Come de Judge
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:06:00
EID:bab5 224b78c0
Lynda and Dan were killing time yakking about [2/2] He Come de Judge:
LB> Think about something Al. If the barbarians were responsible for the
LB> Dark Ages as nonchristians, WHY didn't they wipe out Christianity? Why
LB> WASN'T their form of worship the way it was for the next 1000 years?
DC> Thank you for the treatise, Lynda. And especially your closing
DC> point.
DC> Duly saved!
Thanks Dan - things have been so iffy trying to even get my posts out this
past month, I wasn't sure it ever made it anywhere...glad it was seen.
And sorry I'm not going to get an answer from him on it.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Every new generation is a fresh invasion of barbarians.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: ...
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:08:00
EID:466f 224b7900
Lynda and Roger were killing time yakking about ...:
LB> ROTFL!
LB> Well, you could try exposing me now, but one of us would likely just
LB> get arrested. ;)
RH> Ooooo..... Can I have the video rights?
What?? You want to exploit me?! hehehe
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž PHOTOGRAPHERS do it while exposing
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:09:00
EID:ad41 224b7920
Don and Dan were killing time yakking about "flat earth" town:
DM> hour). They may use dictionaries, thesauruses, etc., but not
DM> textbooks.
DC> I would prefer to see none of those type of reference works
DC> being allowed.
Oh, I strongly disagree - it is a sign of both intelligence AND learning
to
know when to look something up and how to do it.
DC> More like a debate. I remember a time I was in Jr high and
DC> had to pick what was the decided "bad" side of the debate.
DC> Though the team I was on protested, we had to do it anyway.
DC> Yep, once we got into it and gathered the facts that we
DC> needed, we won. The other team didn't do a bit of homework
DC> on it and was soundly defeated.
hehe, my worst and best debating experience was for an Honor's History class...
I got slated to do the "pro" side in a debate on slavery. Hoo boy....worst,
because it was VERY difficult to debate FOR something that made my skin
crawl...best because the mental stretching was an exhilerating exercise
and I
discovered I'm pretty damned good at playing Devil's Advocate (a fact Al
and
others seem to miss more often than not). I also learned FAR more about
the
nature of the arguments that were made prior to the Civil War regarding
slavery
than I would have if I'd been on the pro side.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Debate: it lures de fish.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:49:00
EID:188f 224b7e20
Don and Roger were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
RH> I suspect it will be his willingness to post here.
DM> Nothing has ever diminshed that in the past. I suspect
DM> that in his case, denial simply means that he dances and
DM> types faster.
RH> To my regret, my prediction was right on. He will no longer
RH> be with us. But not for the reason I proposed.
Don't be too sure its not for the reasons you proposed, Roger. Noises were
being made prior to his 'official' reason. But it did give him an out and
one last chance to be self-sacrificial.
And, yea, that's all I'm going to say publicly here in Fido on the matter,
since he is not here.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž And of course Henry the Horse dances the waltz!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:50:00
EID:b558 224b7e40
Marilyn and Dan were killing time yakking about most Xians only "iffy":
MB> Anglicans/Episcopaleans, many of whom regard themselves as Reformed
MB> Catholics, the disparity in numbers is even larger.
DC> Strange term there, Marilyn:
DC> rełform
DC> verb rełformed; rełformed; rełformłing; rełforms
DC> : make or become better especially by
DC> correcting bad habits
DC> Especially as that's what I consider myself to be by being
DC> an EX-Catholic!
Ah, but she's right. The Episcopal Church considers itself Catholic, that
is
a part of The (capitol T) Church (capitol C)....not creating a new doctrine,
but reforming the old where it went astray. The Roman Catholics disagree.
The Orthodox are not as vocal in their disagreement, but then they think
the
whole lot out of Rome went bad long before the Reformation. :)
Being Episcopal was for me a place between....catholic minus most of the
superstition that is such a part of the RCC, protestant without the freeform
"lets make up our doctrine as we go and insist everyone who doesn't follow
it
is gonna burn" nonsense of much of the protestant denominations (I am speaking
more on the fundamentalist/evangelical end than I am on the more mainstream
denominations). It allowed for a wider freedom of expression than I'd seen
on either side of the theological fence, without destroying the structure
that
makes it recognisably 'catholic'....tied to the church of the past as well
as
the present.
And it is reform, not only historically, but continually - often to the
consternation of both its own members and outsiders who wonder what on earth
they are trying to do. Doctrine is NEVER a fully closed subject, its always
open to thought, argument, and....as in the case of women bishops, and now
gay clergymembers, as well as in the Book of Common Prayer's revisions...
open to change when it ceases to be relevent.
:) Its not *always* necessary to leave altogether to make it better, altho
that was the path I ultimately chose. (hehe, or at least some of them would
say my leaving made it better!) Had I retained my own personal minimum
requirement of belief in order to not feel like a hypocrite, I would have
wanted to stay and fight from within for that reform. And I continue to
wish
them well in it - if there will be a future for the christian faith into
the
21st century that isn't completely irrelevant, it will come for the liberal
end of the Episcopal church and a few other of the more socially conscious
denominations, I think.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž It's bad luck to be superstitious.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:52:00
EID:1562 224b7e80
Katherine and Dan were killing time yakking about Sex at Dragon festival
(d:
ML> KW> Ah, yes, the Airport Inn bar during a baptist convention...
ML> Where there's four Baptists, there's a always a fifth.
KW> Ugh! They hunt in packs.
DC> Only if there are six of them.
Nah, only five....one got drunk.
========================================================
+++ Lynda Bustilloz +++
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
3 Harpies, Ltd. at: http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
========================================================
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž If idiots could fly, Congress would be an airport.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 18:51:08
EID:9b0c 224b9660
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 79fc8c33
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 750c329f
On (09 Feb 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> RS>> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma
MG> RS>> bombing was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident
MG> RS>> towards a US-based target, the resident acting due to their
MG> RS>> religious convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
MG> You still haven't answered the question, but I'll put mine more
MG> succinctly.
MG> "Do you believe that the persons responsible for the OK city bombing
MG> were rligious fundamentalists?"
Of course not! What a stupid idea!
... For there is no respect of persons with God. (Rom 2:11)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 11 Feb 97 18:51:44
EID:9094 224b9660
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 54193c5f
On (06 Feb 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> Since two of any species means near-certain death to that
>DR> species, and since the population of "first humans" was
>DR> very large (populations speciate, not individuals), you
>DR> have no reason to believe there were "only two."
JS> Oh, I have a reason, David: (Gen 1:27 NIV)
DR> ROTFL!
DR> That =was= a joke, right?
No. You know better than that, Dave...that is my reason to believe their
were only two.
... Attention: Unattended children will be sold as slaves.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women? (guff!)
|Date: 11 Feb 97 18:53:54
EID:488b 224b96a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 32d8d7fc
On (06 Feb 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> I might be posponing my trip so that I can go have sex
>DR> with the Pagan women you secretly admire but publically
>DR> castigate.
JS> Uh, I could argue the point, but either way, I guess
JS> a man's gotta do...
DR> Most of the people I've met who castigate women (women who
DR> are Pagan or otherwise) for not obeying the dicta of men
DR> have, as far as I can tell, a near overwhelming need to
DR> aquire the admiration of, and sexual gratification from,
DR> these women. The stronger the desire, the more vocal the
DR> denunciation and castigation--- it's these men's only way
DR> of coping with the frustration. The "because god said so"
DR> is just one rationalization.
No, my reaction (knee-jerk though it may be) was not in any way due to
any desire on my part (perhaps for the respect I feel I deserve as a
decent person) but rather, just reacting in kind to the attitude
expressed towards me by them.
DR> But then I could be wrong.
I believe (see above) you are in this case.
JS> Man, sounds like a party! And you get paid?
DR> All the food I can eat and all the Mexican pussy I can
DR> lure onto "my" boat.
Lure? What are you using for bait?
>DR> In August I'll go to Dragonfest, then come back to
>DR> California, paint the bottom of my boat, and sail the
>DR> local island chain until the end of October. Then I'll
>DR> join the Baja Ha Ha to Cabo San Lucas, then shove off
>DR> to the Marquesas three weeks later.
JS> Sounds like fun! BTW, just what does 'dragonfest'
JS> entail?
DR> Usually, it entails:
DR> Day #1, my fleeing the women who are out to get me (day
DR> and night), and my coming out of my tent only long enough
DR> to eat and use the port-a-potty. I only think about rest
DR> that night (it's a LONG drive to Dragonfest!). Then go
DR> to bed alone.
Sounds like a plan...
DR> Day #2, wake up alone and then go hiking into the woods,
DR> picking mountain herbs for tea, and thinking how much I
DR> would love to get Starwyn alone in my tent for 12 hours or
DR> so (depending on prior high-altitude conditioning).
Judging from her .gifs she is hot...
DR> Then
DR> go to bed alone.
Ahhh...
DR> Day #3, wake up alone and then attend a Paganish ritual or
DR> two, while swinging a huge sword from my hip, and thinking
DR> how much I would love to give Starwyn a breather by giving
DR> Hawk Shadow a 12 hour workout as well.
Don't know this Hawk Shadow...but 12 hours...,mercy!
DR> Then go to bed
DR> alone.
Hmmm...appears to be a pattern...
DR> Day #4 wake up alone and then I devote the day to
DR> gluttony, since the ice in the cooler has by now melted
DR> and I have to eat everything or it will go bad. This
DR> includes pot lucks. Then I wander down to the community
DR> center or over to DAWN and join in the ad hoc singing, and
DR> I sing a song or two.
Express yourself, dude...
DR> Then I think about a 26-year-old
DR> woman masseuse named Melinda who has a nice pair of dragon
DR> tattos (and last year had a new boyfriend who's too
DR> goddamned attractive to live), and think about how much
DR> fun it would be to receive some of her "therapy" for 12
DR> hours or so. Then go to bed alone.
Ahhh...the bliss of celebacy...
DR> Day #5, wake up alone and then attend ritual, workshops,
DR> and the Stone Soup, then sing "Nine Times a Night" at the
DR> talent show, then dream about having Starwyn, Hawk Shadow,
DR> and Melinda all in my tent for about 12 hours. Then go to
DR> bed alone.
Hmmm...I don't know about this sleeping alone thing. When the Lovely
Wilbur [tm] isn't there...I get a bit scared in the dark.
DR> Day #6, too tired from fantasy to get out of bed.
That would wear a person out alright...
... 8 of 10 Americans suffer from hemorrhoids. 2 enjoy them!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Sandra Peake
|Sub: Proof of God (b).
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:28:14
EID:1b97 224bbb80
MSGID: 1:229/622 3301008f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Imbecile,
Whilst masticating on , Sandra Peake (1:221/1506)
wrote to Joe Martin:
SP> Now, about that missing end to the Day which was a break from God's
SP> creating
SP> - His day of rest. He has not yet begun again.
Explain to us how the allpowerfull, omnipotent needs to 'rest', dipshit.
.JdB
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Sunday School 101
|Date: 11 Feb 97 09:32:46
EID:d3bb 224b4c00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7a6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Daddy, where do bibles come from?
Answer:
On 08 Feb 97 02:35:40 Richard Smith wrote to Ronald Vass...
RS> I already get my free Bibles from dumpsters.
Hmmmmmmm......I _thought_ so! The contents are a dead giveaway!
.JdB
... I'd rather ride the Wave wsOMR way!
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Xtra Info
|Date: 11 Feb 97 09:37:46
EID:431a 224b4ca0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7a7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Richard,
On 08 Feb 97 02:35:40 Richard Smith wrote to Ronald Vass...
RS> My prize is a PTL Partner Edition
RS> KJV (PTL Counselor's Bible) with an introduction by Jim
RS> Bakker. It has a lot of extra info in it,
Jessica Hahn's phone number.....?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Freedom of unSpeech
|Date: 11 Feb 97 09:47:14
EID:c9f1 224b4de0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7a8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 15:36:58 Richard Smith wrote to Paul Davis...
RS> Have you any idea of what the Freedom of Speech entails? Or
RS> is the British educational system lacking in the details of
RS> a Democracy?
You need to ask?......the backward Brits still enforce their BLASPHEMY
LAWS, fer chrissake.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: REAL NT Authors!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:26:36
EID:26c7 224b7b40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7a9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Jd> Has anyone else checked out the Website that alleges the New Trstament
Jd> was written by the roman Pisio family?.........they make a good case!
MO> Got the address handy?
http://www.widomaker.com/%7Episo/pisohome.htm
A websearch for 'piso' should get you there (sorry 'bout the pis_i_o
typo....these hands were made for ploughing fields, not notebook
keyboards.
Some quotes from the site;
Foreword
This was written to explain how and why the Roman Piso Family wrote the
New
testament. The Jews, who were tired of being ruled over by the Roman
Aristocrasy, were lead in their third great revolt against Rome since 6
C.E., in 60 C.E., by Benjamin the Egyptian of the Pharisaic Party. Though
they were defeated by the Romans, the Romans knew that something had to
be
done. So, about the year 60, certain people were getting together a plan
to
regain control of the Jewish masses. Seneca the Rhetorician, Lucius Piso,
Gaius Piso, and their relatives figured to give the Jews a new rhetorical
religion. Lucius Piso, with assistance from Seneca, wrote 'Ur Markus' there
abouts that year. They had much planned around this new religion. With this
first book, they had hoped to start a new Messiahonic Jewish religion.
[and]
Vespasian already had his son Titus laying siege on Jerusalem, so Arrius
could go with his legions to finish up the job. But they weren't finished
with the Jews yet. For Arrius, it was fairly clear sailing from here; for
he, and the Flavian side of his family owned the entire known world! He
inherited title to all of the books in the Ptolemic Library in Alexandria,
Egypt. Circa 100 B.C.E., the total of books in the Ptolemic Library was
over half a million. Arrius also had all of the books in Judea and he
started gathering up books in Rome so that he could re-write history. Once
he had obtained all the books he could, either by buying them or
confiscating them, he burned all but certain books. He jokes about this
in
Acts 19:19.
The Pisos maintained a barrage of slave scribes to churn out propaganda
against the Jews. While the first books of the New Testament were only
mildly giving inferences against the Jews, the New Testament became
increasingly Anti-Semitic. Arrius Piso wallowed in rhetorical devices. He
played the part of his enemies by writing as Josephus and at the same time
historisizing the Jesus character whom he was also playing. Both Josephus
and the New Testament are full of names and allusions to relatives and
ancestors. They wanted us to be able to re-construct their lineage and the
parts in which they played in the great battle.
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Rich and famous
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:35:04
EID:e933 224b7c60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7aa
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 09:33:10 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
MB> Jesse Jackson is a LIBERAL , and Billy
MB> Graham is a conservative < bow, scrape, and genuflect>. Therein
MB> lies the real reason why one was welcome in Nixon's White House
MB> and the other one wasn't.
I doubt if the liberal/conservative label was as great a factor
as Jackson's lack of real MONEY, thereby excluding him from
the Kissinger sphere of influence, a prereq to Nixon access.
But, we're going offtopic into the real world here. Meanwhile, back in
the supernatural......
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A baby + God = Hell
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:38:40
EID:314b 224b7cc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7ab
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 12:59:00 Ken Young wrote to Jan deBoer...
> RV> * SLMR 2.1a * Dead Babies go to Hell. -- Psalms 58:3 --
KY>May be just a tagline, but I had to respond.. In my Bible it says:
KY>The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon
KY>as they are born, speaking lies.
Jd> Well, psychology claims that sociopaths are born, and incurable, so
Jd> here, at last, we find a item of truth in the book of deception! There
Jd> _have_ to be a _few_ ; as Julie Andrews sang, "a spoonful of sugar helps
Jd> the medicine go down."
KY> We may be a wicked people, but being born insane is something
KY> else altogether.
Jd> But, Ken.....newborns SPEAKING LIES fresh outta the womb? Just SPEAKING
Jd> would be miraculous........and your evidence for this is?
KY> It doesn't have to be verbally.
Speaking anally, then? I mean, what else is there?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Bacteria and Slime
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:40:08
EID:6444 224b7d00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7ac
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 09 Feb 97 12:52:50 Ken Young wrote to Jan deBoer...
KY> WHy Benny Hinn? He has nothing to do with it.. It is the power
KY> of God, not the power of Hinn..
Jd> God doesn't seem to show up in hospitals.
KY> Yes He does, all the time.. Otherwise, people that shouldn't
KY> have gotten better, wouldn't have, without explanation..
Jd> Wonder why they bother having doctors in hospitals then?
KY> Those miracles do not happen all the time, but they do happen.
And your evidence that a god had anything to do with these 'miracles'
is?
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:47:06
EID:3daa 224b7de0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7ad
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 08 Feb 97 09:21:16 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
MB> The book sounds like it might be _Without Conscience_ by Dr.
MB> Robert D. Hare. I've got it, but I haven't yet read it.
YES! That's the one. Eminently readable! You can let a book sit around
_unread_? My gawd, what willpower - that's like leaving a warm pizza
untouched on the kitchen counter!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: World stops again!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:50:22
EID:a6d7 224b7e40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3300e7ae
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 26 Jan 97 18:26:26 Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Jan deBoer...
LB> Jan, I am not Al.
LB> A fact we are BOTH profoundly grateful for, I'm sure. ;)
Well there you go - proo, er, evidence that prayer _does_ work - at
least Al's prayers for my messages to go astray.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 16:18:14
EID:711c 224b8240
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 33014139
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY> I am against homosexuality.
You should be against all forms of disability and handicaps, Ken.
These people have _all_ made a _choice_ of lifestyle, right Ken?
They need only stop sinning, start believing, go to (your)(one true
) church and pray, and they can cast off their afflictions, right
Kenny boy?
By _choosing_ not to do so, they are in fact _choosing_ their
lifestyles, right Ken?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Beyond the trilight zone
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:14:42
EID:284f 224bb1c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> I have said this before, but no matter. I have taken a
DR> step beyond the evidence and reason by choosing to have
DR> faith in Creator.
"A step beyond evidence and reason" is commonly known as insanity.
.JdB
*Would you rather be stoned or crucified.....
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Ticking Time bums
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:15:30
EID:10cf 224bb1e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> I have said this before, but no matter. I have taken a step
DR> beyond the evidence and reason by choosing to have faith in a
DR> Creator. That's nothing for you be insulted by though. So, why
DR> the insults? Is it that people like me represent some threat to
DR> your non-theist world?
Those living in their own little imaginary world (beyond reason)
should always be considered a possible threat without proper
restraints.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Better than U
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:16:08
EID:5113 224bb200
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> I met my Wife at work.
Your first mistake - never get your meat where you get your
bread, goes the saying.
DR> When she started, she did so with two other female Cadets.
DR> The other two were given to sexually explicit conversation
DR> and were quite promiscuous. They made no bones about it.
DR> They had no shame in there game, so to speak.
You mean they didn't have your sexual hangups and guilt
complex induced by your mental masters at "cornerstoned
ministries".
DR> Before roll call, during group discussions, I took note
DR> that men talking to the other two would change their tone,
DR> vernacular, and even demeanor _completely_ if my Wife
DR> approached the group. They did so as an instantaneous
DR> response to her presence because of the way she carried
DR> and conducted herself.
Men usually clam up around a dyke. Especially a nosey busybody
dyke.
DR> Poise, inner beauty, and morality emanate from her constantly.
"inner beauty" outer ugly?
How does "morality emanate constantly"?...post-vaginal drip?
DR> Not to mention that she was aesthetically head and shoulders
DR> above the other two to boot.
So when are you two oh so superior people starting your own master
race?
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Leviticus Lives!
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:17:06
EID:3c55 224bb220
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> My Wife and I have tried to help her as her path
DR> has, thus far, made her life very painful. You see, Marilyn ++
DR> the Bible is a good book to follow the edicts and precepts of
DR> even if you don't believe in God.
So, you don't cut your hair, shave, eat shrimp, or wear
cotton/polyester?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: 1-900-MARILYN
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:19:14
EID:3775 224bb260
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> Think about that, Marilyn.
Marilyn?? Having fantasy conversations with _Marilyn_?
Thought you were a MARRIED Xtian?
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Skinning sheep
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:19:52
EID:9689 224bb260
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3301413f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> It's all so predictable and comical. Entering the debate arena
DR> at this level is so puerile and invidious. One day their
DR> comfortable little bubble of self-delusion will be burst. They
DR> will realize that they have been legends in their own _minds_ all
DR>this time. Hopefully it will be before it's too late.
ROTFLMGAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GUFFAW!!!!
Have you convinced yourself yet? Damn them and their sheepskins,
eh! You'll show 'em! That bible study certificate from Heritage
USA is lots better'n any durn old Microbiology Masters degree.
They're jest jealous, tryin ta lord it over me. Why, I'll put
the hell-fire on 'em, an show 'em who's got the one true
way to everything.
Jest a few more years in this here prison, until I learn
quotin' and mah computer biz takes off, why then I'll be
sendin missionaries every durn where, an' THEN who'll
be the smartass! Huh.
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:20:46
EID:1baa 224bb280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 33014140
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR> Take a chill pill, Jill.
Maybe if you'd stop wearing panties, you'd have the gonads
to say the epithet that you really meant, but are too wimpy
to say.
I'll give you that ancient Cambodian blessing again - phuoc yieu tieu.
Buy your wife a bigger dildo.
.JdB
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Proof of God (b).
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:29:06
EID:377d 224bbba0
CHRS: IBMPC 2
REPLY: 1:229/622 3301008f
MSGID: 1:229/622 33010151
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Jan deBoer to Sandra Peake:
Jd> Hello Imbecile,
And just how long did you work for the diplomatic corps?
Jd> Explain to us how the allpowerfull, omnipotent needs to 'rest',
Jd> dipshit.
He gets sick and tired of the bullshit. Oh, sorry, I was just
confining the omnipotent to my human limitations. But that's
allowed, isn't it? Geez, I wonder if God has all his teeth...
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 10 Feb 97 16:21:00
EID:5c2c 224a82a0
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
MB> the statement by one doctor that none of us truly perceive reality
MB> exactly as it is, but rather have developed a sort of facsimile of
MB> reality that allows us to nurse our various coping mechanisms and
MB> take them along for a more tolerable ride. If what the doctor said
MB> is true, then we may ALL be disembodied brains in a jar of
MB> nutrient fluid.
In fact, there is no way to prove it either way. No one directly
percieves "reality". All our experiences come to us by way of
nerve impulses, which may or may not reflect anything "out there".
... A beautiful theory, killed by a nasty, ugly, little fact.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: DOS WEB BROWSER
|Date: 10 Feb 97 16:22:00
EID:00dc 224a82c0
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Roger Hunter <=-
DW> Netscape does allow you the choice of not loading graphics, you know.
Internet Explorer probably does too, but you'd have a hard time
knowing what you were looking at without them.
... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 10 Feb 97 16:30:00
EID:9384 224a83c0
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Roger Hunter <=-
KY> But what facts are concerned? Prove with facts that Christians are
KY> wrong. Prove Creationism wrong. Prove miracles wrong. Prove that
KY> there is no God. Can't do it, so there are no facts, in your little,
KY> "I don't believe it so it must be wrong," world.
First off, no one can prove a negative. It is not my job to disprove
these things. All I can do is show that the evidence does not support
their/your position.
And that can easily be done. Christianity? Show me evidence for
Noah's Flood. Creationism? Show me a modern fossil in a Pre-Cambrian
strata. Miracles? Show me one first. God? Present Him for examination.
Can't do any of these things? Consider yourself debunked.
... A feature is a bug with seniority.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: EXEMPLIFYING EXAMPLES
|Date: 10 Feb 97 16:33:00
EID:a975 224a8420
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> "Do as I say or I'll burn you forever." Is that really your idea of
RH> free will and choice?
KY> YEs, actually.. When you have choices, there will be consequences to
KY> your choices. That is a fact of life. You can take drugs or not, but
Oh, goody, then give me all your money or die. Is that a free choice?
Really?
Fine, I await your check....certified, of course.
... I do NOT steal taglines. I make backups which I use!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 11 Feb 97 19:05:26
EID:b642 224b98a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 71f93337
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32ff2c49
On (10 Feb 97) Don Martin babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> This guy's a PH.D! fer crissake!
DM> Much depends upon what he has his PhD _in_. I'll lay odds it is
DM> in education and not in physics. Could you find out for us, please?
DM> (of course, he could be an English major, too: about half of them
DM> are delusional.) This isn't your fundy friend, is it? He seems saner
DM> than that in your other posts.
No, it's not my fundy friend. I don't work with him. The
guy in question has a doctorate in economics.
Econ is based on the notion that you can discover some
semblance of "truth" by delving deeply into empirical
evidence; that's why it is such a surprise to me that
this guy could be so completely stupid in this regard.
He also believes The Flood really, really happened,
among other things. Oh, yeah, he believes that Methusalah
actually did live 900-odd years, and that it was "sin"
that corrupted the human genome in such a way that people
have lived progressively less time in the generations
since then. I pointed out to him that people live almost
twice as long now as they did only a few hundred years ago,
on average, and he says that is nothing but a blip in the
data.
Another maroon for Jaysus, I guess.
... ... The Bill of Rights - void where prohibited by law.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 11 Feb 97 20:51:36
EID:4b9c 224ba660
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 6c2c630f
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330074ee
On (11 Feb 97) Jan deBoer babbled to Marilyn Burge...
Jd> On 09 Feb 97 07:30:34 Marilyn Burge wrote to J.J. Hitt...
Jd> Worked with a JW who used to make sure to be noticed
Jd> reading his copies of AWAKE! (really broke me up when we
Jd> were on night shift!) during coffee breaks.
JH> I suspect they may be REQUIRED to do that.
MB> 1) there is no record of Jesus celebrating his birthday in
MB> the Bible, so JW's don't celebrate it, either,
Jd> There's no record of Jesus watching TV or driving a car,
Jd> either, but these dipshits don't having qualms about doing
Jd> that.
Better yet, there's no record of him taking a dump, either.
Think of how much better off our ecology would be if we
could get all the fundies to buy into THAT!
MB> and 2) John the Baptist lost his head at a birthday
MB> party, so they regard them as evil things.
Jd> I think the _real_ reason is the sadistic pleasure they get
Jd> from denying such little pleasures to their children. Imagine
Jd> how the kids feel when their classmates discuss such things.
MB> This guy's a PH.D! fer crissake!
Jd> Is that Piled Higher & Deeper, or Professional Highway
Jd> Driver? Actually, that's highly unusual - JW's discourage
Jd> post-secondary education...too risky, the recipient's brain
Jd> might be jarred into functioning enough to see through the
Jd> BS. Are you sure the PhD isn't in bible study?
Nope. Economics. Maybe he got it before he converted. Could
be, I suppose.
... 23rd Rule of Creationism: Claim superiority for Christian education.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 00:25:28
EID:e420 224b0320
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330002c8
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32fe6dae
PA> they cannot change?
SA>
RS> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
KY> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the color of their
KY> skin, while gays do choose their sexual orientation.
SA> Did you choose your sexual orientation? Have you ASKED anyone
who
SA> is gay if they chose their sexual orientation? I thought not...
I more than likely did not choose to be straight, but then, that would be
because heterosexuality is one's natural sexual orientation. It is what
we are, whether one accepts that or not.
SOme gays will admit they chose it, but most won't. WHich just means they
are not aware of it.
RS> can choose not to be Christian. Are you saying they deserve no
RS> equality in civil rights protections because religion is a choice?
KY> No, I am not saying that, but first you must show me an example of
KY> gays being discriminated against. And anyway,
KY> the Constitution gives
KY> people the right of freedom of religion. Nowhere does it say anything
KY> about the freedom of sexual orientation.
SA> Your statement above constitutes sexual discrimination against
SA> homosexuals.
How? There would only be a need to say something about discrimination against
gays, if it was a problem.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 11 Feb 97 00:36:54
EID:8551 224b0480
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33000576
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org d8b5c75e
DW> I doubt you'll be here any longer than "Patriot" will. We've already
DW> chased onelimey shithead out of here.
NS> Sorry was I supposed to be impressed?
Yep. Some people will say anything to feel big about themselves.
NS> Why do you get so worked up about people who follow in your view, a
non
NS> existant God?
My guess is like many, he is afraid that God actually does exist.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 00:44:18
EID:3529 224b0580
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33000732
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e9dd8b3a
KW> yourself relax about it?
DH>It is endemic to fundys not to be able to ask any serious question
DH>and be willing to accept the truth of whatever the answer might
DH>be.
KW> And Ken is behaving true to form as a nearly stereotypical xtian
KW> pathogen .
Well, I see that you do not understand my views at all then.. To think
I am stereotypical, is almost laughable..
But, why is it okay for people to be against Christians, but not for one
to be against homosexuality?
And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
difference.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 02:28:00
EID:3529 224b1380
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33001f80
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 86b86fef
KY> KW> thought they were good xtians, even enjoying
KY> KW> the support and backing of
KY> ^^^^^^^
KY> KW> the churches. Xtian love seems to express itself mostly through
KY> KW> torture, rape, and murder, again by taking a
KY> KW> look at the 'fruit' that it
KY> KW> has born over the centuries.
KY>Yep.. They THOUGHT they were Christians, however
KY>they did not have the basic
KY>Christian beliefs..
KW> So, after Jesus died, you were made 'god' and given the right to decide
KW> just which group of xtians were real true xtians?
Nope.. The Bible is quite clear what a Christian is. I have no right to
say who is a Christian. But if the Bible clearly shows they aren't, then
they aren't.
KY>and anything that does that, I would be against.
KW> It seems that every time historically that we have an upswing in xtianty,
KW> we have a downswing in society and values. I do wonder if xtianty is
KW> the cause much more than it's the supposed cure.
ANd to me it seems that as people go further from God, they go further from
anything that is decent.
Let's see, there was less divorce, less teen pregnancies, less drug use,
and so on, when Christianity was more the norm.. Unless you think those
are good things.
KY>And, if it was natural for two to engage in
KY>homosexual sex, we would have been
KY>made differently.
KW> Odd. The homosexuals don't seem to have any problem getting parts to
KW> fit.
Have you asked them?
Unfortunately, people have been fooling themselves like that, for years.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 02:34:54
EID:d3e8 224b1440
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3300211e
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b60f7230
KY> KW> weather, et al?
KY> KW> ---
KY>He has control, but lets some things happen.
KW> Well, isn't that nice of 'him'. So he lets some things happen, although
KW> he has the ability to stop it. Rather like a parent who lets 'some
KW> thing' happen to a child, even though he could stop it. You make your
KW> god sound like the most petty of sadistic tyrants. And you expect people
KW> to worship such a despicable being??
Rather, He is a loving God, so loving that He gave us free will, even if
it means we will do things that He hates.
But, because of those things we do, society is destined to keep on going
down hill.
KY>the fact that people seem to no longer care for each
KY>other, and thus are not
KY>helping each other when in need any more.. I could
KY>go on, but you should be
KY>getting the idea.. We create our own problems.
KW> The invention of the Abrahamic religions seems to be one of the largest
KW> of those problems. You sound like Newty-boy decrying government
KW> spending while slopping his county to the highest government moneys
in
KW> the country.
Now, that's low.. Saying I sound like Newt.. :)
I believe in a smaller government, and not just when it is convenient, like
Newt and so many others, seem to be.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Feb 97 02:42:22
EID:4065 224b1540
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330022de
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32f94f20
ky> Wondered how long before we got to this one..
RS> I take it that you have evidence that it is an unnatural
RS> lifestyle, Ken. You DO, don't you?
Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
ky> A "homophobe" implies that the person is afraid of gays..
ky> SInce I cannot imagine why anyone would be, I obviously am
ky> not a "homophobe."
RS> I understand, Ken. No one is going to force you to come out
RS> of the closet.
And no one is going to force you to admit that you are really a closet Christian..
:)
ky> But tell me, how long have you been a Christiphobe?
RS> What made you think that I was afraid of christis? BTW,
RS> nice follow through . . . I've noticed that your standard
RS> operating procedure when faced with someone you don't like
RS> is to accuse them of bigotry, usually racial bigotry. Nice
RS> to know that you're true to form.
Oh, I am using bigotry, but it isn't bigotry, to call me a "homophobic?"
Well, what makes you think I am afraid of gays?
ANd what racial bigotry have I used? Give me an example.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Feb 97 14:33:18
EID:4f6a 224b7420
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3300c97e
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32fe4082
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Ken Young said to Martin Goldberg about Oops, Caught Again:
ky> By the same token, the stereotype that all Christians
ky> are dogmatic morons isn't quite fair or accurate
ky> either..
MG> Do all christians believe in a god?
ky> SO, just by simply believing in a god, means one is
ky> dogmatic?
RS> Where did Martin say that, Ken? Nice shuffle, btw.
I refuse to believe you are this dense. I said that the stereotype that
Christians are dogmatic morons isn't fair, and he replied, do all CHristians
believe in a god. This clearly is saying that anyone that believes in a
god is a dogmatic moron.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ATHEISTIC BOMBAST
|Date: 11 Feb 97 16:45:12
EID:42fd 224b85a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3300e868
-=> Quoting Paul Davis to Martin Goldberg <=-
PD> Now my question: do you believe in anything other than physical
PD> reality?
PD> If your answer is no, then where did the universe come from?
RH> It was always there. The universe has existed since time began.
Okay, next question.. How did time begin?
RH> Now, where did you god-myth come from?
God has always been, and always will be.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 11 Feb 97 16:46:50
EID:6e59 224b85c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3300e8ca
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Martin Goldberg <=-
KY> SO I am a fundy.. I rather be that, than
KY> intolerant of others' views,
KY> such as how many like yourself appear to be.
RH> Let me clue you in, fundy. No one has a right to an opinion where
RH> facts are concerned. It is not intolerance to call an idiot an
RH> idiot. It is a simple statement of fact.
Oh, there can be no opinion regarding facts? Seems to me, people at one
time, THOUGHT that it was a fact that the world was flat, only being proven
wrong later. Just because you think you know something, does not make it
so.
And it is not a fact to call anyone an idiot. There is assuming a great
deal about the individual.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:48:52
EID:c2ff 224bb600
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300f754
-> On 08 Feb 97 17:30:00, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
RC> Fredric has an unusual sense of humor.
DC> Too bad he still can't pull off an April Fool's joke though.
RC> Well, I didn't say anything about his sense of timing. And I'm
RC> not going to, either. :-)
Sort of like Shroedinger's cat: It would have been funny but
you made the mistake of open the box.
... Barney: What happens when you feed a smurf after midnight.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A baby + God = Hell
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:52:21
EID:65fb 224bb680
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300f825
-> On 08 Feb 97 07:59:00, Ken Young got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> _have_ to be a _few_ ; as Julie Andrews sang, "a spoonful of sugar helps
Jd> the medicine go down."
KY> We may be a wicked people, but being born insane is something else
KY> altogether.
So, please tell us about your affliction.
Jd> But, Ken.....newborns SPEAKING LIES fresh outta the womb? Just SPEAKING
Jd> would be miraculous........and your evidence for this is?
KY> It doesn't have to be verbally.
So what happened? You new born son piss in your mouth when you
first held him? With luck, he's learned to give you the finger.
... In the event of the Rapture, expect idiocy to drop 100%.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Believer
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:57:39
EID:cdac 224bb720
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300f963
-> On 09 Feb 97 10:10:50, Sue Alexander got back to Dan Ceppa
SA> as to the current state of reproductive technology.
DC> Do you mean to say that they've gone beyound 0 BC turkey basters?
SA> Oh yes...plastic is such a wonderful invention. Those brass ones
SA> were soooo cold, and the stone ones were just plain IMPOSSIBLE to use.
SA> Plastic turkey basters have made life much better, thank you.
I _really_ don't think I'll enquire further into this matter...
... My ignorance is *just* *as* *good* as your education...Jim Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 11 Feb 97 22:59:41
EID:7499 224bb760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300f9dd
-> On 08 Feb 97 08:02:04, Ken Young got back to Roger Hunter
RH> Let me clue you in, fundy. No one has a right to an opinion where
RH> facts are concerned. It is not intolerance to call an idiot an
RH> idiot. It is a simple statement of fact.
KY> But what facts are concerned?
None that you have ever provided, as you have yet to do so.
... "Instant fundy: just add flood water and bake in hell to taste." --
HP
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:03:52
EID:4e68 224bb860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300fad8
-> On 08 Feb 97 07:53:50, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything. Therefore,
DC> he is responsible for the fact that children get leukemia.
KY> God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and create
KY> our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create leukemia,
KY> but more than likely, mankind did.
Provide the names of the scientists that created leukemia. Don't
forget to include in what peer-reviewed journal they published
their experiment. Also, don't forget the data that they
accumulated as they created it.
BTW, you really are a complete, unadulterated moron.
... "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:05:12
EID:4e68 224bb8a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300fb28
-> On 09 Feb 97 07:09:14, Ken Young got back to Richard Smith
RS> Gods according to the world's religions . . . your Bible
RS> even mentions about a dozen or two. What's the matter,
RS> don't know the name of your God?
KY> Yep. His name is God.
'God' is a job description. What's his name?
... Note that you can prove *anything* if you slant your Scriptural quotes
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:11:16
EID:4e68 224bb960
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300fc94
-> On 09 Feb 97 07:49:52, Ken Young got back to Martin Goldberg
-> Re: Exemplifying examples
MG> mass murderer that accepts some kind of dead savior on
MG> a stick at his death can be saved? Right?
KY> Yes. If you repent, and accept Christ as your savior, you can be
KY> saved no matter what you did..
That's interesting... That means that I can wait until you
committed a sin, kill you and then ask for forgiveness for
myself. As you died in sin, you go to hell and I go to heaven.
That's got to be the dumbest religion I've ever heard of!
... Ken Young is not a complete idiotÄÄseveral parts are missing.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:18:24
EID:7dcc 224bba40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300fe40
-> On 09 Feb 97 12:05:30, Richard Smith got back to Ken Young
jf> And how can I possibly be a fundy? All I'm trying
jf> to do is stick by the Bible
MK> ROFL!
KY> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
... Protect children from a faith worse than death; no bible in schools.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:21:36
EID:4f4b 224bbaa0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3300ff00
-> On 09 Feb 97 07:43:00, Ken Young got back to Sally Springett
KY> I said the MAJORITY of Christians.
KY> Of course, I have been told even by some Catholics, that they are not
KY> Christians.
You really need to read more. Start with _Dick and Jane take
Spot for a Walk_
Chrisłtian
noun Chrisłtians
: adherent of Christianity
adjective
: relating to or professing a belief in
Christianity or Jesus Christ
Now, Kenny, just how many of your Catholic buddies _don't_
believe in Jesus Christ?
... The best-known anti-Christian symbol: an encyclopedia.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Square circles
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:27:12
EID:aebb 224bbb60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33010050
-> On 08 Feb 97 07:55:50, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
KY> Yes. If He wanted to, He would find a way.
DC> Then why doesn't your god do something about starving little
DC> kids to death? "He" doesn't want to?
KY> No, because WE don't want Him to. We want to do it all on our own.
I want him to, Kenny. Have him show me I'm wrong. Let's see
if he can make an Eden for them in Ethiopa and show I'm
wrong not to believe in the inconspicuous bastard that he is.
DC> ... Hey, Ken Young! Burned any good books lately?
KY> Nope.. If I'd be for some books being burned, what is to stop my kind
KY> of books from being burned?
That was a tagline, stupid. And, if you must know, your xianity
has burned just a 'few' books and people, too.
... You were born stupid and have been losing ground ever since.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:36:48
EID:26b3 224bbc80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33010290
-> On 06 Feb 97 06:42:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>>DC> Such as the pro-life(???) xians can bomb abortion
>>DC> clinics because their religion says that it's "evil"?
DR> "Therefore, if we wish to speak and acknowledge the truth,
DR> the persecution is unjust which the wicked employ against
DR> the Church of Christ, but that persecution is just which
DR> the church employs against the wicked." - Epist. 50. Anno
DR> 417
I'm notfamiliar with the reference. Can you elaborate on it?
However, I am familiar with the tactic that is employed in
the above quote. Someone else sent a message along that
same line: "Xianity is above the law!"
Funny, as they supposed founder told them to obey that law.
... Religion - organized intolerance.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:43:45
EID:ed76 224bbd60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33010431
-> On 10 Feb 97 07:10:32, Steve Quarrella got back to DAVID RICE
DR> The Lutz's eventually admitted that the "Amnityville
DR> Horror" hoax was bullshit, after their two books ceased
SQ> wonder if this will be featured on that hoaxes show that Randi is
SQ> hosting in March.
Got a name/date for the show? How about a network and time?
Sounds like I'll actually have to either watch the tube or
at least tape it!
... . . . and forgive us for shooting those who trespass against us . .
.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSION
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:53:02
EID:c8cb 224bbea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3301065e
-> On 06 Feb 97 07:42:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
-> On 30 Jan 97 18:42:00, Ken Young got back to Ed Mills
>>>KY> What the Bible says..[sic]
DR> . . . depends on who's reading it.
I'm beginning to wonder if Kenny can read.
>>EM> It must be a hassle, never being able to shave or
>>EM> wear anything with mixed fibers.
DR>
DR> DEU 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers
DR> sorts, as of woollen and linen together.
Damn! There goes that outside race this week! I intended to
stay warm.
DC> "I've come not to change a dot or tittle"
DR> "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the
DR> law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy,
DC> the meaning of what your godling has said and are not
DC> following the word of said godling.
DR> But then, so did the author of Matthew. And the authors of
DR> the NAS.
They had too, as they weren't preaching to the same people
that Jesus preached to. Unlike a bunch of ignorant sheepherders,
they wanted to be warm an comfortable.
... Take a number in the Martyr line and respond when your name is called
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women? (guff)
|Date: 11 Feb 97 23:59:47
EID:6aa8 224bbf60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330107f3
-> On 06 Feb 97 06:55:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> going to get through the Straights? (I work with an
DC> ex-Navy man that has connection at the sub base in
DC> Bangor!)
DR> The plan is to fly to Seattle and board the boat there.
DR> What Straights? :-) And isn't Bangor in Maine?
The Straight of Juan de Fucka, err Flicka, ah, Fuca't all!
As to Bangor, there's one there, too. I don't think they
have a sub base, though. But, they do have great lobster,
right off the docks.
Well, if you make Port Angeles a port of call, let me know.
If not, maybe I could wander over to Seattle and check out
the boat.
... If you don't have a clew you're not sailing!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Jim Goodman
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 11 Feb 97 07:27:00
EID:e8b1 224b3b60
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33006594
JG> MKto believe that your gods exist -- that's all.
JG>Even reasons to believe gods or any God exists would be
JG>a start. Could there be good reasons for either? Never
JG>mind answering the question whether "your gods" exist.
JG>Just start with gods or God generic.
KY>How about because we got here somehow? That would be a
KY>good start.. A even if you can argue about evolution or
KY>something, there is still, how did time, mass, and everything
KY>else come to be? SOmething beyond the natural, must have created
KY>all of it.
That we got here is true. That science has established this was
by means of evolutionary processes is equally true. That there
is any evidence for a godling beyond the Big Bang simply is
not verifiable or even necessary to postulate.
So, do you have any real evidence for the existence of a god?
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Hills are just flats at an angle.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JAN DEBOER
|Sub: Square circles
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:02
EID:3188 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe36
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Don Martin
with: Ken Young
KY>> Everyone has their troubles, but with God, anything can be done.
JD> Can he make a square circle?
KY> Yes. If He wanted to, He would find a way.
DM> The nice thing about gods is that they can be every bit
DM> as silly as their believers.
And possibly even as silly as nonbelieving mathematicians (a square
circle isn't so difficult after all, provided you don't object to
a change in metric).
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GLEN TODD
|Sub: Lucky 1:17-20 (NLCV)
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:03
EID:01a4 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe37
TID: GE/2 1.2
RS> The pentagram pro processor is on Judith's page, from memory...
GT> Thanks -- although pentagrams, as has been explained frequently,
GT> have nothing to do with the Christian Hell.
How about with the Pythagorean Brotherhood? :-)
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:04
EID:4cce 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe38
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: John "But I Believed It So I'm Not Responsible!" Brawley
JB> (*sigh*) As usual, _if_ Brawley's full of shit, it's because
JB> he took the word of some supposed authority, who himself was
JB> full of shit.
DW> So it's always someone else's fault when you're full of shit?
Always.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:05
EID:1d63 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe39
TID: GE/2 1.2
DC> What's the largest number, John?
JB> There is no "largest" number.
So in place of that bit of nonsense, you invent your own, to wit:
JB> The top-level "infinity"
There is no "top-level infinity," John.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:06
EID:9488 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3a
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: David Worrell
JB> "Still beating your kids, David?"
He adopted you?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: BILL WOLFF
|Sub: rotating spots
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:07
EID:0a41 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3b
TID: GE/2 1.2
BW> I'm a Saganist.
In your first incarnation, some years ago, you came to the echo
as a self-proclaimed "factualist."
Then more recently you decided to be "an agnostic shit for brains."
Now a "Saganist" the same way that you were once a "factualist,"
your spots are rotating in name without a perceptible change in
the complete lack of substance behind them.
Sorry, Billy, but you aren't going to outlive the memories of your
perpetual bullshit.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:08
EID:30b6 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3c
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Ken Young
KY> Maybe if we came back to God, crops would do better..
RC> No one could possibly be this stupid! LOL!
MB> Sure, you mock him. But, have you TRIED IT?!
No need: the crop of fundy dogmatists is doing rather well
here lately -- just in time for the next harvest.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARK O'NEILL
|Sub: Square circles
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:09
EID:ea6b 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3d
TID: GE/2 1.2
Jd>> Can he make a square circle?
KY> Yes. If He wanted to, He would find a way.
MO> Yep. Good ol' KY Jelly strikes again. A square circle? ROTFLMAO!!
MO> Pray tell me how one constant can be changed to another, you
MO> cretinous streak of duck shit. Face it, Ken. You're a fuckin'
MO> idiot.
Little point in asking an idiot (or someone playing an idiot) how
to do it. If you really want to know, however, I'd be happy to outline
a method that can be generalized nicely.
Yes? No?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: shaving language
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:10
EID:3ec3 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3e
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: John Brawley
RC> Then you would also say it's "easy to grant" that a barber
RC> must exist who shaves everyone (and only everyone) who does
RC> not shave himself? Your approach is logically naive, and
RC> prone to errors that you've insufficiently considered.
RH> What's the matter, Robert? Have you never seen a female barber?
Besides the one who cut my hair last week, 26 years after the first
time she did the same?
(What's the matter is that I refuse to write "hirself" because it
looks silly. Not as easy to adjust to as Riisma Esperanto.)
BTW, is the word 'heterological' heterological?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:11
EID:b4d2 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe3f
TID: GE/2 1.2
RH> And, no, I don't have a better argument. Science has nothing
RH> definitive to say about the moment of the Big Bang.
Since when has the "Big Bang" been compressed to a mere _moment_?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: christian Ignorance
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:12
EID:6d71 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe40
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW>> Azir....I think it was your mother
RC> See there; you don't miss all the good ones.
DW> I just miss most of them.
Oh, quit whining. And wash your face while you're at it.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 10 Feb 97 22:44:13
EID:66ec 224ab580
MSGID: 1:3603/210 30d8fe41
TID: GE/2 1.2
KY> Lack of a religion is a religion in itself
The same way lack of poison is a poison in itself?
As lack of a giant pile of shit is a giant pile of shit in itself?
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Shroud of Turin
|Date: 11 Feb 97 08:13:16
EID:55c6 224b41a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 4c105bdf
Ä Area: Atheist & State/Church seperation Info ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Christopher Baker Date: 02-09-97 06:55
Subj: AANEWS #246 Part 1 of 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Cgastbook@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 17:07:02 -0500 (EST)
To: aanews@listserv.atheists.org
Subject: [Atheist] re: AANEWS for February 9, 1997
from: AMERICAN ATHEISTS
subject: AANEWS for February 9, 1997
A M E R I C A N A T H E I S T S
~~ A A N E W S ~~
#246 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2/9/97
http://www.atheists.org
ftp: ftp.atheists.org/pub/
e-mail: aanews@atheists.org
SHROUD OF TURIN IS PHONEY, SAYS MICROCHEMIST
Male Model Was Daubed With Paint, Rolled In Sheet To Produce "Miracle"
Many scholars question the historicity of Jesus Christ, the reputed
god-man upon whom the Christian religion is based. And many more are
skeptical of claims by some religious believers that the Shroud of
Turin, a 14-foot cloth with the negative image of a man with nail
wounds in his hands and feet, is really the burial garment of the
alleged Jesus.
Now, a report in the Sunday Times of London announces that
microchemist Walter McCrone may have solved the riddle of the Shroud.
McCrone, following twenty years of research on the cloth including an
evaluation of radiocarbon dating, says that the image is not the
result of some miracle, but merely the effect made by a male model
being daubed with paint, then wrapped in the sheet to create the
shadowy image some insist is that of JC. His findings will be included
in a book due out next month titled "Judgment Day for the Turin
Shroud."
McCrone bases his new findings on examination of 32 separate
samples of fiber taken from the shroud. Those samples were, in part,
the basis for scientific evidence presented in the late 1980's that
dated the cloth to the 14th century, a period known for the popularity
of fraudulent relics. Other questionable antiquities included breast
milk said to have come from the Virgin Mary, pieces of the crucifixion
cross, even portions of a stairway JC is said to have climbed while
being presented to Pontius.
One claim being made by McCrone that is sure to cause a stir is his
assertion that the image is not unique. He maintains that a similar
image using the same painting technique exists in the form of a red
Christ-like image painted in 1341 on the walls of the papal palace at
Avignon in France.
Despite the provocative nature of McCrone's work -- he has made a
reputation in challenging artistic pieces and other antiquities
including the famous Vinland Map -- the Shroud itself has a checkered
past. It first appeared in the 1350's as the property of a French
knight, Geoffrey de Charny, who purportedly knew the cloth's
provenance, but was killed in the battle of Poitiers before sharing
the information with others. As the popularity of questionable relics
grew during the Middle Ages, the alleged burial rag then came into
possession of Umberto II and the House of Savoy, who willed it to
Catholic authorities in Turin, Italy.
Since then, the Catholic Church has not taken any official position
on the claim that it is indeed the burial cloth of the alleged Jesus
Christ. Last summer, two scientists at Turin University ignited media
interest and scholarly debate when they claimed to have found faint
evidence of a Roman coin dating from the reign of Tiberius, about 29
C.E. The Catholic press immediately jumped on that story; "La Stampa"
insisted that this was "new proof that the shroud is authentic.
Critics, including American Atheist editor and science advisor Frank
Zindler, said that the evidence was highly inconclusive. Zindler
noted in a press release: "If the image of a coin over the eye were to
prove authentic, it would be conclusive proof that the person wrapped
in the shroud was NOT a Jew, and thus could not have been the Jesus
featured in New Testament legend. In ancient times, only pagans
placed coins over the eyes and in the mouths of their dead -- payment
for carriage across the river Styx or its equivalents. A devout Jew
would never do that. Moreover, most coins had human images on them,
and such images were shunned by every good Jew of the time."
-!- DB B2300sl/001027
! Origin: Rights On!-Host/Moderator of A_THEIST-Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
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PATH: 2002/2002 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Taoism etc
|Date: 11 Feb 97 08:13:16
EID:6704 224b41a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 dee5d16c
Ä Area: i-ching ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Jose Thomas Date: 01-26-97 13:47
Subj: The Philosophies of Life
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Taoist Philosophy: a guide for the world and the people in it.
There are few remaining master works in the Taoist intinerary. They are
the
Tao Teh Ching, the Art of War, The I Ching, and the Analects of Confucius.
These few Chinese works, with the addition of some of the philosophies of
Buddhism and works of the Japanese, provide us with the background of a
method of living our lives with freedom in a dynamic and some what hostile
world.
Lao Tsu's primary work outlines a way for individuals to effect a harmonious
life style for themselves. While it also addresses issues of government
and
conflict; it is more a guide for the individual. The Tao teh Ching provides
the underlying principals to be found throughout Taoist thought.
Sun Tzu's work address the strategies of life for a real and hostile world,
and while viewed by most to apply to the institution of war and of
government's involvement of same; it provides for a way to address how to
live with others (strategies) in a less than orderly world. this work may
also be viewed as the foundation of negotiations and diplomacy.
Confucius' Analects provides us with insight as to how a free people may
act
while in the position of servitors, without violating the trust placed upon
those who serve, by the people to whom they are pledged to serve. The
Analects are a guide book on how to reduce and prevent that corruption which
is an ever present danger to the body politic.
Buddhism, particularly Ch'an and its derivitive Zen, provides us with many
of
the tools required to achieve the higher level of awareness necessary to
obtain our personal freedom from the many and varied concerns of the world.
As an accessory to the Taoist philosophies; Ch'an and Zen provides a bit
greater detail into the methodologies and rationale that the primary taoist
works appear to, on the surface, be lacking in. Zen Buddhism helps to infuse
the "energy" to the lack luster surface of Taoist thought, and vitalizes
us
with a 'can do' optimism for our future.
The Japanese work that has been pointed to, but was not otherwise named,
is
the _Book_of_Five_Rings_. Musashi's work has been found to be highly
successful when applied by businesses. The book of 5 rings takes us closer
to the edge of conflict resolution, and provides clarification to the Art
of
War on an individual and group basis. This work also helps to prepares
us
for that conflict that we would otherwise wish to avoid, that is; where
it is
a matter of vital principals that should not be abandoned, and equitable
compramise is not offered.
Throughout all of this the I Ching, or book of changes, helps to point out
those pitfalls and hazards that await the hasty and unwary. Offering its
own
wisdom that compliments and provides focus to both the short term tactics
(impulses) and the long term strategies of life. The I Ching allows us to
recognize and refine our timing within the dynamics of life.
Other points that have not been brought out, in the light treatment of these
works thus far; is the place that the individual martial arts proficency
plays in the overall scope of life's eventualities. The Chinese and Japanese
have developed physical activities that enhance one's abilities to meet
the
challenges offered by life and the philosophies themselves. These martial
arts train us for the gradual use of force, when it is called for, and
teaches us the differences. The philosophical or intellectual studies of
the
application of force, are brought to the point of doing the right thing
when
and where the situation requires it, through the medium of practice. These
arts also enhance the physical side of the total integration of the
philosophies.
All of these philosophies and skills, when integrated as a whole way of
life,
allow for individuals and communities to: move closer to balance and harmony,
experiance a more vital and energetic way of life, enlarge personal freedoms,
and deepen spiritual insight.
Message ends yyy yyy Changes dont
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GY
* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
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PATH: 2002/2002 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Lilith
|Date: 11 Feb 97 08:13:16
EID:7573 224b41a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 6bdc68bf
Ä Area: shadows ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Starwyn Date: 02-02-97 16:25
Subj: Two Witches
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Dunno who wrote this, or who to give credit to... but I've always loved
this one.
LILITH
Cool in the hot night,
Draped, hidden in speckled shadow
Under moon waiting
Waiting in the Tree,
The earth-serpent. Patient, coiled.
Sweat on moon-paled flesh;
She walks, sleepless, wanting -- what?
Something the man-one
Asleep in the heat,
Will not give. Serpent uncoils.
Cool fruit hangs, luring.
She thirsts, but is uncertain;
Which one was denied?
She sits at Tree's foot,
Legs spread, trying to ease heat.
A cool smoothness touches!
Languid, she lets it touch her.
Smooth over bare breasts
Cool on her belly;
She cries out at the next touch.
Long coils entwine legs,
Rippling muscles press, release,
Double tongue flickers;
She writhes, strains vainly.
White fire blooms between her thighs.
Side to side her head
Thrashes, hoarse cries from her throat.
Hard muscle presses,
Soft scales slip gently;
She screams; her body stiffens.
At once, touch is gone.
Serpent climbs spiralling up.
She tips her head back,
Her parched throat stretches;
A whisper hisses: "Take; eat."
Sweet cool juice trickles,
Stings dry throat, tingles on tongue.
She bites more, greedy.
Knows what she wants, now.
She will show the Man the way.
Man is still sleeping,
Lethargic, unresponsive.
Turns over, snoring.
She leaves in anger.
Stupid Man! She needs him not.
Soon again she wants;
Moves hands to ease discomfort --
She learns something new:
Her hands work as well.
Stupid Man! She needs him not!
Branches brush her breasts,
Rough bark rubs and holds her up.
Grainy between thighs,
Earth meets all her needs.
Foiled, the Serpent waits again.
-!- SuperBBS 1.17-2 (Eval)
! Origin: Hey Mr. Crowley Man, Tally Me Kaballah! (93:9302/0)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
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PATH: 2002/2002 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 11 Feb 97 15:29:00
EID:7a69 224b7ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to David Rice <=-
>>KW> It has not yet been determined if David is the
>>KW> God of Good Sex or the God of Bad Sex.
>DR> Come to Dragonfest this year and judge for yourself. ;-)
>DR> Oops. Wrong David. Never mind.
KW> Oh ho! Plan on challenging David Worrell for the title?
Goddess only knows what constitutes winning that challenge.
Two out of three attempts? Spectator voting?
... Practice random hickies and senseless acts of biting.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: QG TEST
|Date: 09 Feb 97 07:55:59
EID:6146 22493ee0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 64b921d4
On 06 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> If you're gonna do at _all_ better, you'll have to "dream up" the
JB> numbers you use, and I mean that _literally_. Lucidity helps.
RH> How would that help, if QG cannot see the future?
_Relative_, sir, _relative_. QG _can_ see the future, but as we agreed,
(I think it was you...), there is a (usually) direct relationship
between distance into the future and accuracy. That is, think of QG as
a vast "probability computer" when It's prognosticating. It could
probably tell you with extremely high accuracy what you will do in the
next few minutes, can tell with lessening accuracy what you'll do in the
next day, and tell with abysmal accuracy what you'll do ten years from
now.
I couldn't _begin_ to guess all the factors that would be inclusive in
such a computation --al other people, possible hidden flaws in Lottery
ball-tossing mechanisms, "previous histories," whatever, but it seems to
me that for YOUR purposes (getting an 'edge' in the Lottery), _whatever_
improvement over randomness in number-predicting QG is capable of, QG is
going to have to "tell you" somehow, and it seems to me that removing
active ego and information-processing "noise" (daily waking life) from
the communications channel can't help but improve the signal-to-noise
ratio.
Traditionally and sensibly, the less such "noise" is going on in your
brain, the better the chances are that the signal can be detected.
("Meditation" would serve primarily this purpose, and a similar
condition probably obtains in dream and "vision" (which latter I suspect
is actually "lucid" dreaming anyway).)
(*grin*)
IOW, my comment wasn't so much about improved QG prediction ability, as
it was about improving the communications channel for detecting whatever
_miniscule_ improvement over "pure chance" QG might be capable of.
IYOW, if QG number-detection is better than chance AT ALL, no matter how
little, that's pretty useless unless _you_ can make use of it, eh?
To make use of it, you gotta _receive_ the transmission with as good a
S-N ratio as possible (which only makes sense....).
I estimate that the above technique improved _my_ number-catching
ability by, oh, say, a few percent over what it would have been without
the "lucid" technique. (And I can remember several instances when
numbers perceived in the lucid dream state turned up the next Lottery.
I never got more than three (of six) that way, but it _seemed_ to be a
little better than sheer coincidence.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Talk is cheap (supply exceeds demand).
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: QG TEST
|Date: 09 Feb 97 08:12:23
EID:6146 22494180
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 86f3153a
On 06 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> If you're gonna do at _all_ better, you'll have to "dream up" the
JB> numbers you use, and I mean that _literally_. Lucidity helps.
RH> How would that help, if QG cannot see the future?
(Finished writing long one, returned, wanted to simplify:
QG, that near-infinite-bandwidth, nonlocally-aware-of-everything
Probability Computer, can see it better than _you_ can.... (*grin*))
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Oh, mama don' 'llow no li'l nonfalsifiables runnin' roun' heah...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 09 Feb 97 08:16:04
EID:2809 22494200
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 403999fc
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2e3d9469
On 07 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> What is the practical difference between "the smallest
JB> possible NONZERO number," and "a minimum-possible increment
JB> of thingness"--an "individualized entity?"
RC> neither of them describes an infinitesimal number. Sorry. You are
Please tell me how you would describe "an infinitesimal number?"
JB> You're too much like me;
RC> Except I