God Damned Fundies!
|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 21 Feb 97 11:53:48
EID:da57 22555ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8d3b
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330792f4
PID: GED3 2.5
16 Feb 97 18:06, Ken Young wrote to Marilyn Burge:
KY>> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were
KY>> a lot better.
MB>> Better for whom? You mean back in the days of lynchings, Jim
MB>> Crow laws, and all that? I repeat: better for whom?
KY> Better for society in general. I am not saying life was perfect, just
KY> better in comparison.
I see. Life was generally better when those dirty "coloreds" were kept in
their place, right? Life was generally better when women were unable to
vote, right? Life was generally better when children worked 10+ hour shifts
in factories, right?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 21 Feb 97 12:00:23
EID:da57 22556000
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8e87
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330a5dfc
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Feb 97 20:57, Ken Young wrote to Fredric Rice:
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation? And, at
Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public? Have you ever held
hands with her? Why did you feel the need to advertise your sexual orientation
like that?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 21 Feb 97 12:01:21
EID:7e28 22556020
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8eaf
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330b89c4
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Feb 97 18:16, Ken Young wrote to Rod Swift:
RS>> If you are so set against the idea that no *other* God can exist,
RS>> why are YOU here?
KY> SO that you can know that truth, as well.
Why don't you answer his question, fundyboy?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 21 Feb 97 12:02:08
EID:bd3d 22556040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8eda
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330b8d28
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Feb 97 18:30, Ken Young wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DC>> Provide the names of the scientists that created leukemia. Don't
DC>> forget to include in what peer-reviewed journal they published
DC>> their experiment. Also, don't forget the data that they
DC>> accumulated as they created it.
KY> Boy, you sure are stupid, aren't you? I did not say any specific
KY> people created it. I said that mankind created it. Meaning that,
KY> man's stupid choices throughout time, has caused many bad things to
KY> happen, disease, poverty, etc.
Are you saying that God did not know that we'd make these "stupid" choices?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 21 Feb 97 12:02:49
EID:673a 22556040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8f03
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330bb308
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Feb 97 21:12, Ken Young wrote to Becke Boyer:
BB>>> Who is going to make David go to hell?
DG>> David will. Every person brings about his or her
DG>> own eternal destiny.
DG>> God knows who will and will not be saved, but we
DG>> do have a free will to
DG>> choose to follow Him or not in this life.
BB>> And if he chooses not to go?
KY> Everyone that does not choose God, chooses to go to Hell.
Nope. I choose neither. What's going to happen to me?
KY> -+- Maximus 3.01
KY> + Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Clint Eastwood on Waco
|Date: 21 Feb 97 12:03:17
EID:a5b5 22556060
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330d8f29
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 30d2931a
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 22:54, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP> -+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+---
TP> NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
Do they have any TANKS?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 21 Feb 97 15:25:05
EID:9d35 22557b20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330dbe51
-> On 16 Feb 97 13:17:30, Ken Young got back to David Worrell
KY> torturous screams of agony when they dug too deep
KY> in the earth.. Now,
KY> if that is so, could it be Hell? If not, what are
DW> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
Just what color is the the sky in your world, Ken? Your
proposal above is ludicrous, and that's being nice to
your stupid premise.
As to Evolutionary Theory, you don't even have a clue. You
are following the dictates of your masters rather than the
facts and evidence that support the theory.
... Rule 1-C of Creationism: Claim evidence...then quote the ICR.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 21 Feb 97 15:30:20
EID:fb08 22557bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330dbf8c
-> On 16 Feb 97 21:50:34, Ken Young got back to Martin Goldberg
MG> force, you first need to show that that force exists
MG> and then that we are products of it.
KY> All the proof I need is that we are here. At least until, someone can
It's not proof, Ken, it's evidence that is wanted.
MG> This is not Sunday School. We want real evidence for
MG> god, not just what you mother told you.
KY> Uh, how about what God told me?
Just how many voices do you hear inside your head, Ken? Does
your shrink know about them?
... Your god's a joke and you are his earthly image.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 21 Feb 97 19:52:36
EID:1c3c 22559e80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330dfd04
-> On 16 Feb 97 19:12:07, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
RC> It is much easier to get lots of laughs from our Quantum Bait Boy
RC> when you don't take him at all seriously, isn't it?
He's becoming rather hilarious in that light. Right now, I'm
enjoying his arguments about Hector not agreeing with Mark
Himes. It just doesn't get any better than that, or can it?
RC> Careful with those origin lines, now, or he might consult his
RC> lawyer and keep records of your teasing him! Or worse, he'll
I think I'd best put one on retainer. That's if I can find one
that won't laugh too hard.
RC> drop his monstrous ego on you.
That could hurt. Perhaps he should go on a diet.
... Faith: an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Sacrifice kids for religion
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:52:15
EID:8c26 22560e80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e514f
Xianity isn't the only religion killing their kids for god:
2/19/97 Peninsula Daily News, Port Angeles, WA
FATHER ADMITS KILLING CHILDREN OVER RELIGION
(AP)
----------------
NEWARK, N.J. -- In a surprise admission on the day of his
murder trial, a man sobbed as he told the judge how he
strangled his 12-year-old daughter and killed his
10-year-old son during a custody battle over their
religious upbringing.
"I held my hands around her neck for about five minutes
with my face pressed to hers," Avi Kostner said Tuesday
in court.
"I cried..'Please forgive me. Please God forgive me.'"
Kostner said he drugged the children and put them in
the back of his car. He killed the girl after she awoke
but said he couldn't bring himself to strangle the boy,
so he gave him more of a trnquilizer. He also used a
hose to fill the car with its exhaust fumes.
Kostner, a taxi driver and part-time Hebrew teacher,
surprised even his own lawyer w3hen he suddenly asked
to address the court. He then pleaded guilty and
confessed to the killings, whcih came during a
battle over custody and whether to raise the children
as Jews.
================================================
... Tagline Deleted: Nothing funny about this shit.
... Real men don't abuse children.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:34:06
EID:d176 22560c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e4d0e
-> On 16 Feb 97 19:25:30, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DW> The Klan is just as Christian as you are, bozo.
ky> When one goes against basic beliefs of Christianity,
ky> they are not a Christian.
RS> But you said in an earlier post that Xtians who
RS> sodomize small boys are still Xtian:
DC> Like all fundys, he forgets what he posts.
RS> `How dare you damned atheists archive my writings!!!'
Yes, it's just sooooo hateful, especially when they have
to eat their own words.
> Yes. Of course, just ebcause one sins, does not
> necessarily mean they stop being a Christian. But yes, if
DC> That's the damning quote that he forgot about.
RS> Yep. Real humanitarian.
RS> `Father Sebastion, will you kindly shuck me an altar boy?'
"Brother Bahtazar, go roll your own!"
RS> ... According to Ken Young, Xtians who sodomize children are still
RS> Xtians. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Getting into the tagline business, I see!
... Science & education, the world's most effective fundycide
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Critical Thinking
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:39:07
EID:0ec2 22560ce0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e4e3b
-> On 18 Feb 97 22:12:00, Darryl Gonzalez got back to Richard Smith
DG> I deplore your accusations.
We all deplore your lack of etiquette in not fucking quoting
anything the other person said.
DG> I felt that the sender was comparing all Christians to the likes of
DG> Adolf Hitler.
And, just where are the quotes that you deplore, Darryl, Darryl
and Darryl?
... "Can't quote, as his brain's gone. He's Djed, Jim!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:41:38
EID:14bf 22560d20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e4ed2
-> On 19 Feb 97 06:21:24, Richard Smith got back to All
RS> Hmmm . . . Incubus, the Official Footware of the Harpy
RS> League . . .
Perhaps it should be the Succubus instead?
... MACARONI NETWORK: Oodles of noodles for Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:46:22
EID:7dcc 22560dc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e4fee
-> On 16 Feb 97 19:36:34, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
ky> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
RS> Well, that's not something I exactly relish . . .
DC> That' salsa can say about it? Do try to ketchup!
RS> What'sa matter, don't think I can pass mustard? I am NOT
RS> margarine-al at all . . .
That was butter. I may even condiment you on your response.
... "Ken Young is the Energizer Duck." K-Dub
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Moin Hallo Hi
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:51:33
EID:bf23 22560e60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e5125
-> On 18 Feb 97 12:31:52, Karen Davis got back to Dan Ceppa
KD> On (16 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Stefan Schaa...
DC> Is that the equivalent of our HS or college level German courses
KD> 11th form English would be about equivalent to a mid level college
KD> literature course taught in the foreign language. Maybe not QUITE so
Thanks. It's tough to equate different educational systems. As
it is, I'm having "fun" trying to get my local system to
actually teach kids.
KD> ... Real men don't abuse children.
I which I had that one when I send my message to ALL in this
packet. In fact, I will re-edit it and add a second tagline.
... Grab the back of your T.V. set and feel the power of the Lord!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:54:34
EID:e254 22560ec0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e51da
-> On 19 Feb 97 04:26:08, Mark O'Neill got back to Steve Quarrella
SQ> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ> -some- charisma. :-/
MO> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
The Pope. And, I'm still upset that he is of Polish descent.
... The Popemobile: proof prayer doesn't work.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 22 Feb 97 02:50:50
EID:7499 22561640
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e5f0a
-> On 19 Feb 97 13:29:44, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
KY> But what facts are concerned?
DC> None that you have ever provided, as you have yet to do so.
KY> As I keep saying, prove how the world got here,
The earth revolves around the sun once every 365 1/4 revolutions
of the earth. If you weren't attached to it, you would be here
right now.
KY> and how we got here,
My parents had sex. What did yours do?
KY> and I will do my best to prove that God exists.
How many times do you have to be told that it's not proof
that is asked of you but EVIDENCE?
... "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something." PBr
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Feb 97 02:54:40
EID:94bc 225616c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e5ff0
-> On 18 Feb 97 15:57:16, Ken Young got back to Fredric Rice
FR> Oh, you know... when innocent women were being burned,
FR> Jews were being burned and disemboweled, niggers knew
FR> their place, faggets were safely in the closet, girls
FR> never had abortions -- they just went away to visit a
FR> sick Aunt for a year.
KY> Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
What stuff above were you in favor of, Kenny?
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation? And, at
You do, or you would not have made that statement. What are
you afraid off?
KY> least there were less abortions, back then.
And you facts to show this are:
... Reality is what is. Supernatural is what isn't.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:00:49
EID:4e68 22561800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e6161
-> On 16 Feb 97 13:14:02, Ken Young got back to David Worrell
DW> Then why must we eat?
KY> Come on, a little intelligence would be nice.
Try providing some, if you can.
KY> I didn't mean you will never get hungry, but that it was never
KY> intended for people to be malnourished. if we would believe, He would
KY> provide for all.
Try getting your omni-impotent god to miraculously provide food
for those starving in Ethiopia.
... The Church hates a thinker like a robber hates a cop.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:03:47
EID:4e68 22561860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e6213
-> On 16 Feb 97 21:54:08, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
KY> racist.. I haven't said one thing against blacks yet.
DC> Also, notice his use of the word, 'yet'. Rather a big slip
KY> Not really, I knew what I was saying..
You sure as hell didn't know what you were typing. Rather
Freudian of you.
KY> You haven't seen anything
KY> racist by me yet, because you never will.
Ther you go again, Mr Slip.
KY> WHy would I disapprove of someone because they are black?
Why would you disapprove of someone because they are gay?
... "They must have been praying to some cheap, off-brand Lord." J. Vee
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:09:37
EID:4e68 22561920
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e6371
-> On 19 Feb 97 13:30:48, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
KY> our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create leukemia,
KY> but more than likely, mankind did.
DC> Provide the names of the scientists that created leukemia. Don't
DC> forget to include in what peer-reviewed journal they published
KY> Boy, you sure are stupid, aren't you? I did not say any specific
KY> people created it.
You said, "most likely, mankind did." Therefore, someone had
to do the work in creating it. Who are those people, Kenny?
KY> man's stupid choices throughout time, has caused many bad things to
KY> happen, disease, poverty, etc.
Stupidy causes a disease to be created? Then, you must be the
current version of Typhoid Mary. Go autoclave yourself before
you infect anyone else.
... "Drop dead!" --- Motto, Human Surplus League.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:15:45
EID:4e68 225619e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e64e1
-> On 19 Feb 97 13:32:44, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
RS> don't know the name of your God?
KY> Yep. His name is God.
DC> 'God' is a job description. What's his name?
KY> Nah.. His job is "Lord," one of His names is God.
That's nice. Too bad you don't have a clue as to his
name nor the job you gave your imaginary friend.
lord
noun lords
1 : one with authority over others
2 : British nobleman
verb lordłed; lordłed; lordłing; lords
: put on airs
Now, run along and research why this country does not have
lords, Lords or "Lords".
... "Your god has made an ass out of you.": Larry Meyering
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Have enough already, dickbrain?
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:20:35
EID:48cb 22561a80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e6603
-> On 20 Feb 97 07:23:21, Mark O'Neill got back to Abram Garcia
MO> Where are you, you cowardly little prick? You wanted the opportunity
MO> to educate the masses, so, now's your chance. Get that pious finger
of
So far, it seems like your warm invitation to Abram has not
been acknowledged or accepted by him.
Such a pity, as it sounds like he had talent.
Oh well, you can always visit the washed up has-been back
in the minors.
... "There was a Man who split time in half, BC and AD": Al Tufano
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:27:46
EID:0cea 22561b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e67b2
-> On 16 Feb 97 21:55:52, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
MB> Are our public schools actually doing that poor a job?
DC> As the xians try more an more to ruin the school system, I
KY> Christians?!? I keep on saying you people aren't this stupid, but it
We aren't. You are.
KY> is seeming more all the time, that I have been wrong. It is the
KY> liberal atheists
What about the conservative atheists? Did they ruin it as well?
KY> several occultists that have ruined the school
What occultists are you talking about? You are one of them, xian.
KY> system, but forcing their beliefs down the kids' throats.
That's what your cult does, pink boy.
KY> Yep.. The education system has really gone down the tubes.. And
KY> could it possibly be because we have taken all traces of Christianity
KY> out of the schools?
That's a start to making it better. Got any more good suggestions
to keep the occult out of education?
... The death of dogma is the birth of reality.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:32:30
EID:8cd2 22561c00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e68ce
-> On 19 Feb 97 16:12:24, Ken Young got back to Becke Boyer
BB> And if he chooses not to go?
KY> Everyone that does not choose God, chooses to go to Hell.
You seem to worship a fucking egotistical petty tyrant. Next
time you talk to the son of a bitch, tell him to shove your
head up his ass and ask him to fart.
... Yes, I read the bible. Nice pack of lies that you believe in....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSION
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:36:13
EID:c515 22561c80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e69ad
-> On 19 Feb 97 13:34:50, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
>>>KY> What the Bible says..[sic]
DR> . . . depends on who's reading it.
DC> I'm beginning to wonder if Kenny can read.
KY> Well, if I couldn't, it would just be proof of yet another miracle,
The miracle is that you found someone to aid you in your attempts
at correspondence.
KY> proving the power of God. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to read these
KY> posts, and reply.
It's those Darwin monkeys that you had to hire to do that
for you. As it is, they are making fun of you by typing
in "proof" every time you should be providing evidence.
Got any?
... Cannibalism: see Eucharist (from Diderot's Encyclopedia)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:41:08
EID:fb08 22561d20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330e6ad4
-> On 16 Feb 97 13:08:52, Ken Young got back to Marilyn Burge
MB> doesn't work that way. Please take a basic logic course before you
MB> get laughed clear outta here.
KY> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not have the
KY> best success in laughing the Christians out of here..
What you fail to realize is that we don't want you to leave.
You are providing us with the straightlines that provide
those laughs.
KY> My evidence is merely the fact that we did not just appear out of
KY> nothing.
You were produced when, at a fertile time, your daddy fucked
your mommy instead of just getting a hand-job that night.
... Creationists fear evolution for they same reason they fear reality.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: helpless moron from oz
|Date: 22 Feb 97 00:22:00
EID:a3f2 225602c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330e3c40
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced1
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 02:19, ROBERT CURRY wrote to LAURIE APPLETON:
RC> I trust you're not indicative of Australians in general. No country
RC> could *possibly* be so characteristically stupid and survive.
We've done a pretty damn good job of it here.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 22 Feb 97 00:24:56
EID:5e61 22560300
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330e3da9
PID: GED3 2.5
Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's gospel program.
It seems many viewers were disturbed by his "metal" tribute album.
Don't these silly fucks have anything better to do with their time? I've
heard one of Pat's tributes. Imagine Guns'n'Roses as a swing band, and you've
got the gist of Pat's album.
I can't wait to hear what Pat thinks of all this. I could almost hope it
would be the catalyst that causes him to seriously examine his faith, but
I somehow doubt that. We'll probably get a Jimmy Swaggartish tear filled
apology, instead.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: ACLU News 01-30-97: Chri
|Date: 22 Feb 97 00:37:45
EID:0488 225604a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330e4033
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 30dcb100
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 10:01, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to Rod Swift:
RS>> I want to know. Are you gay?
TP> No; but if I was, I wouldn't be 'in the closet.'
We already knew that. You'd be in a TANK.
TP> I advocate consistency to the premis that no person may INITIATE
TP> physical force (or make a credible threat of such initiation) against
TP> the person or justly acquired possessions of another.
Unless they are in a TANK.
TP> I believe that
TP> everything in history, and current affairs, that looks like a free
TP> civilized society uses this premis; regardless of what else is
TP> included.
Especially TANKS.
TP> To the extent that a society is consistent to this
TP> 'physical aggression truce' it is, in my opinion, a free civilized
TP> society.
But only if everyone has a TANK.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:59:00
EID:ffdb 2255bf60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 75ac4a02
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3309283a
On Feb 17 22:55 97, Ken Young of 1:270/420 wrote:
DW>> The Klan is just as Christian as you are, bozo.
JH>> Jesus would be real impressed by his casual disinterest
JH>> in injustice.
JH>>
JH>> "Feed the hungry? Care for the sick and homeless? Not
JH>> me, I'm too busy following Jesus..."
KY> Now, let's see.. When did I say I wouldn't help the needy?
Hell, I don't remember which particular injustice wasn't spiritual
enough for your tastes; all I remember was you were your usual
self-absorbed shitty little self.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: CHRISTIAN Identy
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:20:24
EID:8ffc 22560a80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 75ad1353
> [obligatoy quote omitted because I nuked the original message
> in an overzealous fit of disk housekeeping.]
WOW! Thanks for telling me that "Pastor Pete Peters" had a
web page. Wheeee....
Among other things I found this jewel (the prefix to a sermon
entitled "The Confessions of a Jew":
: "Jews" want to disarm Americans?
: There is a "Jewish" conspiracy against America?
: "Jews" control America's media?
: "Jews" have a death grip on America's government?
: "Jews" are left-wing, liberal, anti-gunners?
: "Jews" use the cry of anti-semitism as a weapon to suppress truth?
: "Jews" prevent a free press in America?
: "Jews" are against freedom?
: "Jews" want total people control?
: "Jews" are liars?
: "Jews" want to put Americans under tyranny?
: "Jews" are responsible for America's problems
: "Jews" must leave America if America is to survive?
Needless to say, Pastor Peter's answer to all of the above
questions is "yes".
And then there was another page (www.white-christian-nation.org)
that came up when I did a search on his name. Going to have to
check it out next.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: John-boy's last chance.
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:58:19
EID:a74d 22565f40
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22565f49
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
Pay close attention to this message, Bait-boy, as it explains all your problems
in the nearest thing to a nutshell available on Holysmoke, together with
enough
exposition for even the densest metafundy to figure out what it means.
You
_are_ being tested, so be sure you read the whole thing before placing your
bovine hoof in your crackpot's mouth:
JB>>> John Brawley's crackpot phrasing:
JB>>> "That distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB>>> point."
HP>> A geometry question? If there is any distance between the points,
HP>> there are an infinite number of points lying on the line between the
HP>> two points, John.
JB> I claim some of my needed concepts don't _have_ "standard math"
JB> equivalents
I'll try to help you out one more time. Your question is meaningless in
a
standard mathematical reference because, like the moronic metafundy you
are,
you've insisted on asking the wrong fucking question.
You must give your "points" some thickness and even a bit of attraction
to make
the question meaningful, in which case they aren't points anymore, they're
"particles." Therefore, you first mathematically describe your particles
and
how they interact with each other, and the answer to the minimum distance
they
can have between them will arise naturally from that description.
^^^THIS IS SIMPLE STUFF, BAIT-BOY. READ IT AGAIN. AND AGAIN. SEE IF YOU
CAN
GET IT TO SOAK IN AND MAKE SENSE.
Yes, that means the math will get much more difficult. Deal with it, pink
boy.
BTW, this is your last chance. If you can't understand this rather simple
explanation of why you want particles rather than points, I give up on you
as a
thick-headed crackpot idiot who can't learn anything even when spoonfed.
I had
written you several other replies at this sitting, but I'll be deleting
them.
If you can't find enough neurons to grasp this "point" (ROFL!), there's
little
sense in bothering with you, outside of throwing rotten tomatoes at you.
JB> Robert bitches I don't use "standard math language."
As well he should, you crap-brained crackpot! I've watched Robert try to
lead
you toward a little mathematical enlightenment, and I've watched _you_ blow
up
your ego-doll and hump on it instead of listening to him.
When your arguments don't use "standard math language," it's _always_ because
of
the idiot crackpot "theorist" who can't figure out what question he really
wants
to ask. You're like a winehead who throws boulders onto a piano keyboard
and
complains that the music doesn't sound very sweet, then refuses to listen
when
people tell him that the problem is that he just doesn't know how to play
the
piano.
JB> Give me the 'formal math language' direct and unambiguous equivalent
for
JB> "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB> point." Else, grant that it doesn't exist.
We'll readily grant that, in math, two points don't "coalesce" unless they
are
precisely the same point (in which case you ain't got two points, bozo).
IOW,
we readily grant that your question is totally meaningless, and that you
are a
moron. Now, _particles_, that can be a different subject, as explained
to you
above. IOW, once again, you're asking the wrong question and bitching that
you
aren't getting a satisfactory answer -- big surprise!
HP>> You are actually asking "what's the number just barely greater than
zero
JB> Don't tell _me_ what I am "actually asking."
But I did, John-boy, and it was an accurate statement. You are attempting
to
describe a particle as a point, as well, which is yet another mistake on
your
part. Note that this miscommunication was _your_ fault. And I'm quite
surprised that, even after reading a breakdown of your question in simpler
terms, you are unable to grasp what _you_ were saying! Your total
misunderstanding of both QM and math is quite astonishing, since those are
the
two tools you _must_ be able to use to prove your crackpot "theories!"
You see, your problem is this: You used purely mathematical terms to ask
a
purely mathematical question, and that question was meaningless. The problem,
of course, is that you didn't _really_ intend to ask a purely mathematical
question, nor use purely mathematical terms, as described above in the
discussion of _particles_ as opposed to points.
Points are purely mathematical constructs, John-boy. You don't want points,
you
want _particles_ -- like the elementary particles of physics, with size
and
other properties. You see, _size_ and some sort of attractive force is
required
to cause particles to "coalesce." Even the very defintion of "coalesce"
would
tell you this, if you actually understood what you were trying to ask:
coalesce intr. v. 1. To grow together; fuse.
2. To come together so as to form one whole; unite.
Mathematical points cannot "coalesce," brickbrain. Particles, which can
be
described mathematically (yes, even using "standard math," you moron), could
indeed have such an ability, though.
IOW, you're a flaming moron ijit. You have miscommunicated yourself all
along,
and tried to blame your own ignorance on any and every one except the person
who
was responsible: yourself.
How were you able to make this mistake and not detect it? Robert pointed
that
out (though you keep hiding from the answer :-): Your hugely bloated and
distorted ego, which somehow grows despite the fact that, at the core, there's
nothing to cause it to inflate. At all.
JB> And: I have no "'gods hiding in nonlocality' theory."
Yeah, we know, we're just waiting for you to actually figure that out.
Looks
like it'll be a long wait, as you don't even have the brains to understand
that
you're asking the wrong questions of yourself, and others.
Until you wake up, you are dismissed as the incompetent crackpot that you
are,
John-boy.
For the last time, unless you wake up,
Your old pal and tormentor, Hec
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
* Origin: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965 (1:102/735)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 102/735 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Tom Huber
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 21 Feb 97 20:54:00
EID:9e08 2255a6c0
MSGID: 1:115/477.0 8A990D02
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 94-0102
SQ> JD>> Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
> TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it must
be
> TH> by law, not by someone making an allegation that wasn't upheld in
a
> TH> court of law. Books like the one you mention often contain such
> TH> allegations that people are willing to believe... Barnum wasn't wrong.
SQ>You have some different facts about the Mark Hofmann case? What are
the
>allegations that "The Mormon Murders" makes that in your opinion are
>incorrect?
Allegations are one thing, but convictions are what I was addressing.
You seem to have missed that. I can make allegations all day long, but
unless I can prove them in a court of law, they remain allegations, and
unproven. They can easily be considered to be fabrications, fiction,
speculation, or theory.
If you want to consider something that a lot of us have been exposed to
more than any of us (possibly) want, I don't know if O.J. killed Ron
Brown or not. There is evidence that suggests that he did, but there is
also evidence that throws the whole thing into question. As long as such
questions remain, and O.J. does not admit to the murder(s), then we
can't really say, one way or another. We can give our opinion, but
that's all that it is - an opinion. And still open to question.
The original statement that started this thread was that the church does
not allow person convicted of fraud to remain members. The key word is
and continues to be "convicted."
>While I'm at it, how was Gordon Hinckley, a man who (today, in his function
>as president of the LDS church) apparently speaks to God on a daily basis,
>fooled by Hofmann's forgeries? Why would God allow "his" church to be
>embarrassed so?
Consider this: If Judas was known to God (who is supposed to be
all-knowing), then why did Jesus choose him as one of the twelve? Why
did God allow a traitor from within the ranks to turn his Son over to
the authorities for a trial, torture, and ultimately, death?
Why does God allow suffering in the world, if He is supposed to love us?
Why does he allow people like O.J. to get away with murder, if justice
is to be served? Why do little children, who have done nothing to harm
anyone in their lives, have to die of starvation?
If you can answer those questions, then maybe you'll have the answers to
your questions about the Hoffman incident.
>BTW, did you know that Orrin Hatch used to beat up his sister while Hatch
>was living with his brother-in-law?
I really don't care. I don't care for Hatch, and I'm not from Utah. He's
a politician. What else needs to be said?
Tom
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Star Spawn BBS (815) 477-4658 (1:115/477.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 115/477 10 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Tom Huber
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 21 Feb 97 21:02:00
EID:5d38 2255a840
MSGID: 1:115/477.0 8A990D03
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 94-0102
FR>th> Richard, if it was "the Mormon" in him that "made him do this," then
the
>th> man is self-deceived. I have my doubts that this ya-hoo is a member
of
>th> the Mormon church, or if he is, that he is active. If he is active,
and
>th> is guilty of the crimes that you have reported, then this needs to
be
>th> brought to the attention of the local Mormon leaders. He is certainly
>th> *not* living according to the standards of the Mormons, no matter what
>th> he may claim, and the kind of abuse that he has heaped upon his wife
is
>th> totally out of line with Mormon teachings.
FR>Ah, yes. The ole "Not True Mormon" dodge. The desire to demand that
all
>the Mormon criminals are incapable of doing what they did and thus the
onus
>of correcting the problem falls upon the atheists.
So, you fabricated the whole thing?
You've come up with an interesting piece of fiction. If it (your story)
is true, then there are answers and justice, which have absolutely
nothing to do with religion.
Abuse is abuse, no matter where you live, or who is involved. If a wife
is abused by her husband, regardless of whether he is atheist or
religious, she has the right to turn to the law for help.
From some of the other responses to your allegations that I've read in
this echo, evidently others do not believe your story. At this point,
because you are unwilling to do what is essentially right, I am now
thinking that you have produced no more than a red (i.e., ripe) herring.
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Star Spawn BBS (815) 477-4658 (1:115/477.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 115/477 10 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:04:43
EID:90a6 2254a080
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d03a6
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22525dc8
MK> "If one's religion is a choice, so is one's shoe size."
Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or two ago. The
people in the lab hadn't believed me. One good thing about the guy...he's
gawddamned consistant.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:15:26
EID:5057 2254a1e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d0c73
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330a0c19
SQ> And don't forget to act offended and question the integrity of
SQ> the person who catches you. Just to be safe, ask them whether or
SQ> not they believe in God.
Think I'll write a macro.
MG>> Last week. I will inform himthat you are up and running.
SQ> I told him that via the Internet. I just added another point --
SQ> strangely enough, 9005.21 -- so we can do this again. :)
HA HA HA HA...you'll be sorry.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:16:37
EID:2d6d 2254a200
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d1070
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330a0c98
SQ> I am in complete agreement. By invoking an old book of Middle
SQ> Eastern mythology, they can transfer responsibility for their
SQ> attitudes. "Hey, I'm just telling you what God thinks about your
SQ> homosexuality." Yeah? Why can't God give us a more updated
SQ> opinion?
Fundyism is fanaticism and as such is a black and white thing. Basic things
like hating homosexuals never change.
SQ> In any event, we don't hate Fundamentalist Christians: We just
SQ> hate the crime of Fundamentalist Christianity. Nudge nudge, wink
SQ> wink.
I dont hate them. I just with they'd take a walk down the center of LBJ.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:18:28
EID:7aaf 2254a240
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d1345
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330a0d0b
SQ> I still laugh at the guy, thinking how he thinks that the Vatican
SQ> is a favourite organization of mine.
Did anybody ever ask him what bible verses were instructing him to hate
the catholic church?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
sq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:19:39
EID:c727 2254a260
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d14fc
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33091638
DW> Maybe you used an alias? Hmmm... Bertrand Russell, maybe? Nah...
DW> Wait! I've got it! You're Tycho Brahe, right?
He's got the metal nose.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:20:26
EID:6fff 2254a280
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d19a4
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 894d1981
LA> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
LA> University, UK), "The necessity of Darwinism". New
LA> Scientist, vol.94, 15 April 1982, p.130.)
Save this horseshit for someone that believes it, Appleton.
Not only are you stupid enough to continue spouting your lies here, I see
that you spout the same lies in front of other echoes with identical audiences.
I don't talk to morons.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:22:05
EID:6fff 2254a2c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d1cc1
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 894d1b11
LA> Ever hear of the DNA code? Highly complex codes don't
LA> arise by themselves anymore than intelligent communications
The DNA code is not complex, Dipshit. Figure it out. 64 codons coding
for 20 amino acids.
Maybe this is too complex for your simple mind, but no someone with a bit
of intelligence.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:24:11
EID:00b4 2254a300
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d229a
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000b0b43
DR> Well put, Brother. Repeatedly the evidence is submitted and
DR> repeatedly they fail to see it or admit that it "is"
DR> evidence. Yet they see not that the beliefs they themselves
DR> espouse require more faith than ours ever would.
Look up "evidence" in the dictionary. You obviously do nto know what it
is. Your postings show this.
Btw, did I tell you about the PhD chemist I know who happens to be a lay
preacher. He says there is no god.
Just food for thought.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:41:44
EID:4a1f 2254a520
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d54e1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 360fd03b
RC> Now aren't you glad you asked? }:-)
You bet.
It's just that years ago, when iwaslearning the dynamics of packing chromotography
columns with spherical media of uniform size, that ordered packing of the
media would take up 66.6% (isn't that convenient) of the space in the container.
Seeing that you could place a spere in a container and know how much space
sould be taken up by this percentage of the volume...wait...now I see the
problem...the volume of the speres is not dependant on the percent of empty
volume taken up.
Think I'll just go back to crystallizing penecillin binding proteins.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sa
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:49:21
EID:19ad 2254a620
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d5ac1
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330a5ffe
MG>> I'll try to pass this along tonight if he isn't "asleep"
MG>> again.
DC> 8 o'clock? Just how old is the rock-banger really!
Too old, evidently.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: My Winter Weekend
|Date: 20 Feb 97 20:50:46
EID:ed8c 2254a640
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d5fec
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 33087e7f
MG>> He has lost his feed and is lookign for another, so if
MG>> anyone wants to volunteer, I'll pass it on. Anyone who is a
MG>> sysop and can deliver a BW packet or at the very most set up
MG>> as a point would be appreciated by his majesty.
JM> If he gets cheap rates to Canada he can use The Keyboard BBS.
JM> If it's REALLY a problem, I could pull BW packets for him and
JM> attach them to an EMail message.
I already offered to do this for him, gawd knows why. The place is much
quieter.
Actually, I don't get much of an answer at his home this week. He must
be in Ahfghanistan or some other garden spot.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw A
|Date: 20 Feb 97 21:00:34
EID:63cb 2254a800
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 759d7674
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 33078f98
RS>> It isn't that Martin isn't trying to have a nice
RS>> conversation with you.
dr>> Yes... it is, _Goober_!
RS> Actually, his name is Martin, not _Goober_.
After calling Ken Young "Jelly" for a week, I'm not sure that his calling
you or I "goober" has any meaning. I sugget that we send him to Flame.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 21 Feb 97 13:31:59
EID:f496 22556be0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75a68a9b
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330a6838
DW> Imagine people who find Southern Baptists just a little bit too
DW> liberal, and you've just pictured an Independent Baptist. These
DW> congregations exist totally on their own, with no allegiance to
DW> any governing body of any sort. Their theology can, and does,
DW> take some interesting twists.
I always love it when the Southern Baptist Convention meets and some of
them try to get a "moderate" elected as president.
Their idea of moderate is a bit to the right of Rush.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 21 Feb 97 13:37:40
EID:f774 22556ca0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75a696b0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330b842a
DC>>>> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
DC>>>> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG>>>> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC>>> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG>>> Another high liver, I see.
DC>> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG>> It gets bladder and bladder...
DC> Just colon can we keep this shit up?
I'll let you know enemanute.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Randi
|Date: 22 Feb 97 19:49:56
EID:d49e 22569e20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f4fbb
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3308baa6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Lunae dies February 17 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> And remember the 2-hour A&E Special, "Scams, Schemes & Scoundrels"
on
SQ>> Easter Sunday, March 30th. I host a program on famous hoaxes and
DC> Got a time to go with that?
Unfortunately, I don't. I'll try to keep up with things and find out when
they plan to air it, and then announce it here. March is going to be a
busy month for me, what, with the release of Stern's movie, the rerelease
of "The Godfather" and "The Empire Strikes Back," and the A&E special.
SQ>> I hope the Cottingley fairies are featured.
DC> I've never heard of them.
Check out Randi's "Flim Flam" for the whole scoop (and the pictures themselves).
In a nutshell, in the 19teens two English girls produced pictures of themselves
with fairies. Twice. They managed to fool a lot of people, including Sir
Arthur Conan Doyle, with pictures that are obviously fakes. It's pretty
much a given that the two girls photographed themselves with cut-outs of
fairies. Anyways, lots of ink has been spilt over this one.
SQ>> see the bits where the cousins finally admitted the whole thing.
Huh...I was reading in one of Randi's books yesterday that they never DID
admit the whole thing, yet some folks here told me awhile back that they
DID admit to it.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 22 Feb 97 19:57:46
EID:ffe1 22569f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f4fd0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3309fc17
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Martis dies February 18 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad David Ragland:
DR>> gave it up. I've worked at a prison for the last 16 years. I've
DC> Just how many license plates did you make?
Be nice to him...he probably made yours. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 22 Feb 97 19:59:20
EID:7b1f 22569f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5040
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Damien!
Mercurii dies February 19 1997, Dixit Damien Wellman ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> STEVEQ4.RAR will get you a PCX of the current version. It's not
SQ>> fantastic, but it gets the point across. :)
DW> And just where may I obtain this, again?
From my BBS, 972-412-8457. Leave a message for me so I can validate you.
:)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:00:00
EID:86c0 2256a000
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5148
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 330b19f1
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Mark!
Mercurii dies February 19 1997, Dixit Mark O'Neill ad Steve Quarrella:
KY>>>> Of course, I have been told even by some Catholics, that they are
KY>>>> not Christians.
"I've been told by some people who were blue clothing that they are not
wearing blue clothing." This statement goes up into the Top 50 stupid things
I've read in this echo. That's quite an accomplishment Ken has pulled off
there.
MON> four times, and mainly for the humour content. ;-) If you can visualise
MON> a young boy with a bag of lollies and his sense of loss when the bag
MON> is empty, this is how I feel after I've read all of Jelly's posts.
A
Wish you had been here when some of the HOLYSMOKE Classic Posters were here,
like Ron Stringfellow, Charlie Ray, Phil Morrison, JBS, and others. You
can't pay for entertainment that good. :)
MON> Who knows? But we are dealing with irrational people with
MON> irrational beliefs fighting ludicrously irrational "battles". I don't
MON> think any of them actually know why this is.
I wish that they'd curb their god, and make certain he doesn't take a dump
on my lawn or try to rub up and down on my leg. :-/
SQ>> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ>> -some- charisma. :-/
MON> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
I was talking about how preoccupied with Catholicism our evangalical acquaintances
seem to be. The Roman Catholic church is currently headed up by a pole
by the name of Karol Wojtyla. These days (well, since September of 1978),
he calls himself "John Paul II." :)
I had someone at work a year ago getting into my hair with her Catholicism.
I got rid of her by saying "I liked the first John Paul better." :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:22:42
EID:617e 2256a2c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f55be
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 17947a96
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Dies solis February 16 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Ken Young:
KY>> to be against homosexuality? And notice, I say,
KY>> homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
KY>> difference.
mg>> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
mg>> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
FR> Answer the question, Jelly.
There's a shape out there, it's the shape of a square...
"Look all around! Can you find it?"
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:25:16
EID:f36c 2256a320
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5675
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 758274f0
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Martis dies February 18 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Yeah? Well my wife's uncle is a famous US senator, so therefore,
SQ>> anything that senator says is right. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah
SQ>> nyah. The senator is also alleged to be a space alien, so that
SQ>> makes his viewpoint even MORE factual.
MG> Are you sure that he's not an INfamous US senator?
After his little go-round with "The Exorcist," you certainly MAY apply that
prefix.
MG> What are his views on making fundies do the heavy work while the rest
MG> of us look skeptically at our lemonade wondering how much BHT they
MG> put in it.
Given that Hatch is a right-wing wacko, I'd be shopping for a shovel.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:27:16
EID:228d 2256a360
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f571b
REPLY: 1:3652/1 33079658
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Dies solis February 16 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad Ken Young:
KY>> Part of growing up is accepting reality, something non-Christians have
KY>> yet to do.
JH> You believe in global floods, gods, floating axeheads, dead men
JH> coming back to life, people walking on water, a universe created
JH> in six days, and virgins giving birth.
JH> And you say WE'RE not accepting reality? If your above statement
is
JH> true, Christians must be embryos.
Yet these same people have difficulty accepting the idea that monkeys suddenly
turn into human beings. I've never understood this. "Talking snakes are
OK, but it's absurd to think that monkeys suddenly turn into men overnight."
[For our brain-dead lurkers: No one other than Fundamentalist Christians
has ever asserted that monkeys suddenly become men.]
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Test
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:28:58
EID:c7e9 2256a380
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5724
REPLY: 1:3652/1 330B8624
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Mercurii dies February 19 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad All:
JH> Hello, hello?
JH> Is this thing on?
Sho' nuff.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Steve Winter sees ememies everywhere
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:31:22
EID:7ff1 2256a3e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f57c1
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1989837d
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Jovis dies February 20 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>>>> Tell him that someone you know has submitted his name to
sq>>>> the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and he's
sq>>>> going to be baptized by that church when he dies. :)
sq>> BTW, I'm not the "someone you know." You'll
sq>> have to call your folks on that one. :)
FR> I was thinking of alluding to _me_ as having "helped save" him. }:-}
You have my blessing.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Mormons ARE Christian, you ignorant bigoted fuck!
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:32:32
EID:524a 2256a400
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5826
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 19937e6a
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Jovis dies February 20 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR>> Why not learn the true origins of the Mormon cult, "Tom?"
sq>> I'd just like to see the fucking plates. :)
FR> It would be easy enough to make some.
I know that. Easier than coming up with all kinds of bullshit about where
the fucking things went. So why has nobody done it? :) Gotta wonder if
this was on Mark Hofmann's "Things to do" list.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fiction, you nut!
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:33:36
EID:6b7f 2256a420
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5872
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1995cf14
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Jovis dies February 20 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> I remember seeing Jay Anson's book all over the place when I was a
kid
sq>> in school. Did anybody ever write an official retraction? I was under
sq>> the impression that the Lutzes just came forth, admitted it, and that
sq>> was that.
FR> The author admitted it was a fiction yet even reprints continued to
state
FR> in the opening pages that what is contained within is a real story.
Kind of like those "Chariots of the Gods" books, Berlitz's faux pas, and
all the other stupidity that is presented as "non-fiction" (which isn't
necessarily synonymous with "fact"). "Swell."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Sundance Waco Film
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:35:34
EID:2c36 2256a460
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f58c2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1995cf1b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Jovis dies February 20 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad David Worrell:
FR> Funny thing is, if I call you from the ISDN, I can hand your CID to
FSK
FR> any damn thing I want. I got the power. (Only thing is I
lack
FR> a PCMCIA programmer to effect any real changes.) It should have presented
FR> the entire 10-digit code, though, since I was calling in from the PSTN
FR> behind a Centrex.
FR> I wonder what you got.
"I got a rock."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: All
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:37:16
EID:5674 2256a4a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5936
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, All!
Veneris dies February 21 1997, Dixit Christopher Hughes ad Norman Solomon:
CH> 24 states have laws outlawing sodomy, DOMA passed overwhelmingly and
was
CH> signed into law despite the fact that the law is quite blatantly
CH> unconstitutional, 17 states have passed laws trying to pre-empt Hawaii,
CH> a school board local in Plano, Texas, banned a book last year from the
CH> public elementary school for no reason other than its discussion of
the
CH> ancient Egyptian mythos...
Holy shit! I've got another user here in HOLYSMOKE!
[Welcome aboard, Christopher. :) ]
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:38:06
EID:a8f8 2256a4c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f59cc
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Christopher!
Veneris dies February 21 1997, Dixit Christopher Hughes ad Norman Solomon:
CH> 24 states have laws outlawing sodomy, DOMA passed overwhelmingly and
was
CH> signed into law despite the fact that the law is quite blatantly
CH> unconstitutional, 17 states have passed laws trying to pre-empt Hawaii,
CH> a school board local in Plano, Texas, banned a book last year from the
CH> public elementary school for no reason other than its discussion of
the
CH> ancient Egyptian mythos...
And I still have to carry around a "Unicard" to buy liquor in the dry counties
here in the Dallas area, plus I have to drive all the way to beyond the
Rockwall-Fate border just to BUY liquor. I had an easier time buying booze
in -Salt Lake.-
CH> Then I'd suggest you get on the talk show circuit and declare loudly
that
CH> the people commiting such acts under the guise of Christianity are not
CH> true Christians(tm). I'd frankly love to see that one.
Many who would "save us" non-theists won't even bother cleaning up their
own club, making it thus more appealing to be a member. Strange priorities:
Save the heathens while the club's crooks battle on.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:42:12
EID:8b4b 2256a540
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5af0
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Christopher!
Veneris dies February 21 1997, Dixit Christopher Hughes ad Rod Swift:
CH> I still wish I'd been able to see this. Of course, I've had only
CH> two visitations at the house from the door-to-door Biblers. One
CH> from the JWs, one from the Mormons.
My wife and I have spent considerable time and effort in getting the fucks
to stop paying visits. "Someone" up in Salt Lake decided to alert the local
Mormons that Suzy Q. had moved to Texas, and for about three years, they
were a bit vehement that they had some kind of right to annoy us. She finally
told them on 12/24/95 that she didn't want them around, and for the time
being, they've stopped.
CH> Mormon #1: "Hello, I'm Elder Mott, and this is Elder
CH> We're from the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints."
"I guess that a cup of coffee is out of the question, then. We were just
going upstairs to fuck. Can you come back later?"
CH> Elder Mott: "Uh.. no.. do you really believe what you just said?"
"You don't really believe that nonsense about the golden plates, do you?"
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 22 Feb 97 20:46:20
EID:ad10 2256a5c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f5b6f
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e3da9
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Saturni dies February 22 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad All:
DW> Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's gospel program.
DW> It seems many viewers were disturbed by his "metal" tribute album.
Isn't that great? We heard his version of "Smoke on the Water" the other
night, and just about died. Maybe Pat is finally having a few cups of Reality
House brand coffee.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:45:12
EID:e532 22566da0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 330f55e8
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 9a6c5ff5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Norman Solomon said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
NS> reason whatsoever why data should be viewed as "evil", use of the data
NS> perhaps, interpretaion of the data, very possible.
Anything the religious reactionaries in this country don't like, they try
to ban "to protect children". After all, who in their right mind wants a
child to be hurt. But it's like using a shotgun to kill cockroaches.
The move to ban anything 'indecent' on the internet (to protect the kids,
of course) is just one example. Rather than encourage the use of software
that is already available that will allow a parent to block whatever level,
they would rather make sure that NOBODY sees anything.
In other words, make sure everybody is an idiot because the fact that there
are ideas and philosophies out there that don't hold the bible as literal
truth, is just too much to bear. If people get the idea that they can think
for themselves, the theocracy will never be possible.
NS> It would be very interesting to know what you (& others) think
NS> children should be sheltered from, if anything.
I don't think they should be 'sheltered' from anything. Of course you don't
teach a child to build a battleship when all he wants to do is float a
plastic dinghy in the bathtub. You search out the best materials you can
find that the child is capable of assimilating.
... Don't confuse Anatomy with Pornography.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Fundy Frolics
|Date: 22 Feb 97 17:47:46
EID:1864 22568de0
MSGID: 1:229/622 330f3142
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 7c077329
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Norman Solomon said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Don Martin <=-
NS> Do they have no thought whatsoever, to the pain any woman must be
NS> feeling who finds themselves having to take this option. The process
NS> must hard enough to get through without having a massive guilt trip
NS> laid on you.
Nope. The leaders of the "pro-life" movement here will not accept or
acknowledge that there is any other reason for abortion than *convenience*.
It also doesn't matter if the clinic that performs abortions also does
pregnancy testing, low cost prenatal and delivery care, PAP tests,
mammograms...ie; women's HEALTH care. And it doesn't matter if you use
that same clinic for one of their other services. You still get
harassed.
You missed it, but not that long ago we had one who was very vocal about
his belief that a 12 year old, pregnant by incestual rape, who had an
abortion, should be executed. (And that it was HER fault she was pregnant
in the first place.) Unfortunately, this belief is held widely enough that
none of us here was anything more than disgusted. We were neither surprised
nor shocked at the attitude.
NS> lives of babies and mothers would be lost when the mother could have
NS> been saved.
Pro-"lifers" won't even admit that the law here restricts abortion after
the first 3 months to very specific reasons. They still deem a late term
'abortion' (done to save the woman's life) as a 'convenience'.
NS> The big thing as an echo you could do is to cut out the anti-chriatian
NS> flaming from word one with new people test some out a bit more you
Who wants to? Most of the religionoids we get through here are idiots.
Idiots need whacked upside the head with a clue x 4.
More moderate people, as you SEEM to be, will just have to take their lumps
with the rest until they can show evidence of being half-way human. And
it's going to take a LOT of evidence for me to believe you are as reasonable
as you sound. The last one that started off like you ended up being a
reason for emesis basins as part of your computer setup.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 22 Feb 97 17:48:30
EID:0de5 22568e00
REPLY: 1:170/551.0 160477fe
MSGID: 1:229/622 330f31b8
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY>>> interesting possibility, there have been many to say they heard
KY>>> torturous screams of agony when they dug too deep
KY>>> in the earth.. Now,
KY>>> if that is so, could it be Hell? If not, what are
KY>>> those sounds coming
KY>>> from?
DW>>> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY>> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
KS> And just what theory would that be, oh jellied moron?
Nice to see you back. You've arrived just before the playoffs
start between this astrophysicist and David Ragland.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 22 Feb 97 21:20:54
EID:6e73 2256aa80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f6532
REPLY: 1:115/477.0 8A990D02
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Veneris dies February 21 1997, Dixit Tom Huber ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ> JD>>> Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
>> TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it must
>> TH> be by law, not by someone making an allegation that wasn't upheld
>> TH> in a court of law. Books like the one you mention often contain
>> TH> such allegations that people are willing to believe... Barnum
>> TH> wasn't wrong.
SQ>> You have some different facts about the Mark Hofmann case? What are
the
>> allegations that "The Mormon Murders" makes that in your opinion are
>> incorrect?
TH> Allegations are one thing, but convictions are what I was addressing.
You said "Books like the one you mention often contain such allegations
that people are willing to believe." Which allegations, then, are the ones
that "people are willing to believe" that you feel are inaccurate? I've
read several accounts of the whole incident, including "The Mormon Murders,"
and they all seem to tell pretty much the same tale.
TH> You seem to have missed that. I can make allegations all day long,
TH> but unless I can prove them in a court of law, they remain
TH> allegations, and unproven.
Of course, "Not guilty" doesn't necessarily mean "Innocent." Talk to O.J.
Simpson about that one.
TH> If you want to consider something that a lot of us have been exposed
to
TH> more than any of us (possibly) want, I don't know if O.J. killed Ron
TH> Brown or not.
Really? You rhetorically asked later in your message why God allows the
likes of O.J. Simpson to get away with murder. Sounds like you've made
up your mind (That's fine, I really could care less either way.). As Simpson
is not a Mormon, though, he has nothing to fear from the folks in Salt Lake,
although they could annoy the shit out of him by sending their missionaries
to his door.
TH> The original statement that started this thread was that the church
does
TH> not allow person convicted of fraud to remain members. The key word
is
TH> and continues to be "convicted."
And I will be more than happy to concede -this- point to you: My wife tells
me that Hofmann is "very excommunicated" for his pains. Now, whether that's
for his bombings or for his embarrassment of the church, well, only THEY
know that. :) I would need information about other convicted criminals
and their status within the LDS church to know either way.
>> While I'm at it, how was Gordon Hinckley, a man who (today, in his
>> function as president of the LDS church) apparently speaks to God on
a
>> daily basis, fooled by Hofmann's forgeries? Why would God allow "his"
>> church to be embarrassed so?
TH> Consider this: If Judas was known to God (who is supposed to be
TH> all-knowing), then why did Jesus choose him as one of the twelve? Why
TH> did God allow a traitor from within the ranks to turn his Son over to
TH> the authorities for a trial, torture, and ultimately, death?
Easy answer: God was sending his kid down to Planet Earth to save us all.
It does not appear that that was in the cards for Hofmann and Hinckley.
TH> Why does God allow suffering in the world, if He is supposed to love
TH> us?
TH> Why does he allow people like O.J. to get away with murder, if justice
TH> is to be served? Why do little children, who have done nothing to harm
TH> anyone in their lives, have to die of starvation?
That is up to the Bible believer to explain. If you've got some good answers,
I'm listening, but Bible verse won't get you very far in HOLYSMOKE.
TH> If you can answer those questions, then maybe you'll have the answers
TH> to your questions about the Hoffman incident.
I can't invoke magic for my answers.
>> BTW, did you know that Orrin Hatch used to beat up his sister while
>> Hatch was living with his brother-in-law?
TH> I really don't care. I don't care for Hatch, and I'm not from Utah.
He's
TH> a politician. What else needs to be said?
Just asking. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 22 Feb 97 21:30:06
EID:f36c 2256abc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 330f6576
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 759d0c73
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Jovis dies February 20 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> And don't forget to act offended and question the integrity of
SQ>> the person who catches you. Just to be safe, ask them whether or
SQ>> not they believe in God.
MG> Think I'll write a macro.
I need to fire up Mark's Fundy Door and use THAT. :)
MG>>> Last week. I will inform himthat you are up and running.
SQ>> I told him that via the Internet. I just added another point --
SQ>> strangely enough, 9005.21 -- so we can do this again. :)
MG> HA HA HA HA...you'll be sorry.
I won't be paying the LD bill. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: JASON HARMON
|Sub: Test
|Date: 21 Feb 97 08:28:00
EID:efbd 22554380
All and Jason were killing time yakking about Test:
JH> Hello, hello?
JH> Is this thing on?
They made it through, Jason!!
I'm seeing posts of yours in this packet dating back to the 1st. You're
back in business. (G)
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" --Monty Python
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: RICHARD SMITH
|Sub: TIME Atheist Article
|Date: 21 Feb 97 08:30:00
EID:0091 225543c0
All and Richard were killing time yakking about TIME Atheist Article:
dr> ATHEIST SPEAKS OUT AGAINST HIS FORMER MASTERS
dr> Hello Zerotheists,
RS> [dementia deletia]
RS> Gads, he's finally Moothed-Out, and another Bernier is born!
RS> I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but I at
RS> least have admire Bernier and Mooth on one issue: they write
RS> (for the most part) their own stuff.
Er...Bernier might...Mooth's is lifted whole from a fairly well-known
daily devotional called Our Daily Bread (wotta surprise!).
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
... Men read Playboy for the articles - women go to malls for the music.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: MARIO GONZALEZ
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:15:00
EID:ba80 225619e0
Norman and Mario were killing time yakking about Conversion:
NS> I can see where you are coming from, but *all* is a bit OTT, I am
NS> a Christian myself, but I would never impose my views on another, and
NS> I respect people of different views to my own seing them as equal or
NS> even superior to my own.
MG>
MG> Strange answer!.
MG> All of it is fine, don't get me wrong, but if someone with an
MG> opossing view regarding the belief in a deity is superior to
MG> you as you say, why wouldn't you stop believing then to emulate
MG> her/him/it?????
I can't really speak for Norman - he's way too new here for me to have much
of
an idea of what he thinks, however....when I was still a believer, I would
have
said much the same, and here is why:
1. I would have been thinking more about how they LIVE their beliefs than
I
would be worrying about what those beliefs are. I felt then (and still
do)
that a belief was exactly as useful or harmful as the use to which it was
put.
The obvious comparison that comes to mind is Ghandi vs. Swaggart....obviously
Ghandi's views were far superiour to that of Jimmy Swaggarts, REGARDLESS
of
the beliefs which fuel either.
2. I understood that my beliefs were just that - beliefs. They were, for
a
time, right for ME, but there is a difference between finding something
that
points to the 'truth' and declaring it THE Truth, without question. There
are
many Christians who feel the same way, and can comfortably maneuver within
their beliefs without feeling they have some lock on what is The Truth.
Ultimately, my beliefs ceased to be useful or valid for me and it was at
that
point that I left them behind, but I did find them useful for a period of
time, as a way of expressing my views. I also found much that was useful
in
spiritual views that were NOT my own, and even though I did not use those
expressions of faith to explain myself, that does not mean that I did not
find
them worthwhile.
MG> One other thing. Don't you sometimes feel sad for us
MG> nonveliebers-condemned to hell types?
Not every Christian believes in hell, and of those that do, not every Christian
believes it is a punishment for nonbelief.
(YES, people, it's salad bar-ism. No SENSIBLE theist should be without
their
Salad Bar!)
MG> If you had your way, woudn't you convert me to your way of
MG> thinking to save me?
Only if he felt you had something you needed to be saved FROM, perhaps.
:)
MG> No fighting intended.
They are good questions.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Avoid temporary variables and strange women.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Black lipstick 1/2
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:18:00
EID:366a 22566a40
>>> Part 1 of 2...
Rod and Norman were killing time yakking about Black lipstick:
NS> RS> Yeah, well, blame the Christers for destroying public
NS> RS> education... and their Republican't colleagues :)
NS> Do> I have no problem with Christianity. I have no problem with many
NS> Do> Christians. It's ignorant hyporcritical wannabe Christians who
think
NS> Do> theyre gonna get into Heaven for passing their unsolicited sinful
NS> Do> judgement on me that I have a problem with.
NS> A voice of reason in this echo, what a very pleasent change.
NS> Despite Rod's invitation to join the "lets blame the Christers" you
remain
NS> your own person, and speak as you find, rather than adopt what passes
for
NS> a warped version of "PC" by some posters in this echo.
RS> Strange. I clearly laid blame at the Republicans, and the
RS> fundamentalist religious political extremists Christians for
RS> which they puppet...er...stand for :)
NS> I only took it the way Domino had, so maybe it was not as clear as you
NS> intended it to be. Sorry :-(
While the judgementalism of hyperchristians is annoying and can be extremely
emotional damaging when they aim it at someone who IS attempting to seek
some
spiritual guidelines for their life via Christianity, their true danger
to
those who do NOT share their religious views comes when they seek political
power in order to establish their morality as law. Christian history is
full
of example of what happens whenever a christian theocracy is allowed to
develop.
In recent years (I would point to President Reagan's political bedsharing
with
Jerry Falwell's "Moral Majority" as the turning point), the Republican Party
has allowed itself to become the mouthpiece of the fundamentalist extreme.
Much of the vehemence you witness in this echo is the fallout of having
to
fight to keep our country out of the hands of those who state - without
shame -
that their intent is to turn the United States into a mirror of their own
moralistic hostility. And who have the ears and approval of many who are
in
a position to make a serious attempt to pull it off.
What becomes galling is that the MAINSTREAM Christians....those who are
NOT
ideologically or politically fundamentalist, remain silent when they should
be
the most VOCAL dissenters of this abuse of both spirituality and politics.
I could recount (and many here will remember) a few examples of the reaction
FROM CHRISTIANS a vocally dissenting Christian gets when she dares to "suck
up to the heathens" by objecting to anything a fellow Christian does or
says.
RS> Yes, they are problems. Didn't you read about the woman in
RS> Georgia who tried to kill her sister so that the exorcism could
RS> be complete?
NS> Yes, and I wrote to the person who posted it to thank them for doing
NS> so. Please be aware that much of what is posted here seems to
NS> incredible to believe in other parts of the world.
You think that's hard to believe? Don't forget that we are also the land
of
the Pink Plastic Lawn Flamingo. ;)
NS> Is there an OLR/Editor where I speak, it types?
(G) If there were, we'd have already seen to it that Mratin Glodbreg and
Ron
Vass had one. You're in good company, don't worry about it, and enjoy the
teasing.
NS> I want the info, but I could do without the grief that my "Twilight
NS> Zone" text output gets me. This stuff is coming down at almost 1Mb
a
NS> day so I have had to flag this echo to "personal & ALL only".
Oh, you're going to miss a LOT of good stuff doing that! It would be far
better to suffer for another month or so with the large packets, read as
much
as you can, get a feel for those posters that you truly do think are a total
waste of bandwidth, and then start applying filters.
NS> If you see anything that you feel I should see please post it to me
NS>
Yikes! And double the bandwidth for the rest of us by double posting? (weeelll,
Al's not here, I suppose we *could* afford it....)
NS> Who are these "christians" who are producing such fear (expressed as
RS> hatred) in your nation? What exactly are "they" doing?
On a national scale, or are you looking for smaller more personal example?
They produce fear (and are themselves infused with it) when they attempt
to
put into law those views they cannot successfully manage to persuade people
with - and they have a difficult time persuading without using fear (of
hell,
when they have nothing else to intimidate with) because their ideology is
completely unsound.
Their ignorance and inability to construct anything remotely resembling
a
logical argument mostly generates hilarity, altho that too becomes something
>>> Continued to next message...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.23į
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Black lipstick 2/2
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:18:00
EID:369a 22566a40
>>> Part 2 of 2...
to fear when you realize we will all have to be dealing with the children
they
home school so that they have a captive audience for their warped out
biblically literalistic interpretation of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
NS> These questions come to mind.
NS> If you were able to remove all Christians would this then stop?
In my opinion? Of course not. An megamanical asshole is a megamanical asshole,
regardless of belief. Christianity is a very convenient peg on which to
hang
that behaviour though...it creates a climate where the asshole can not only
justify the poor behaviour, but take comfort that GOD approves, too.
Some religions are less suited to that sort of rationalization, and are
therefore deemed less harmful, those still may be seen as ridiculous to
the
nonbeliever. Those religions tend to be left alone more often than
Christianity is in here.
NS> Did these things exist in the pre-christian world?
Killing? Persecution? Judgementalism? Yes.
But it has flourished under the Banner of Christ since its birth.
And since Christianity pays lip service to mercy, humility, compassion and
standing by those principles REGARDLESS of how the rest of the world behaves,
it is fair game for taking a very hard look at the dicotomy between what
it
SAYS and what it DOES.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
... The invitation said black tie only. Why are all of you in suits?
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:03:00
EID:7539 22566060
Lynda and Norman were killing time yakking about Bored:
DW> Are you saying that Christianity is a *race*? Damn, everytime I think
DW> we've plumbed the depths of your stupidity, you show us the pit is
DW> actually even deeper.
NS> You have studied theology, haven't you? Which part of "for we are
NS> aliens and foreigners here" did'nt you understand?
LB> That doesn't really address the question. Just because Christians
LB> think they are aliens (you KNOW you're going to hear about that, don't
LB> you?) doesn't make them a 'race'. There are christians in every racial
LB> group, but christianity is a religion, not a race.
NS> Could you tell me what race black people are then? or jews perhaps?
Has "black" become a religion now? Did they choose to take on a black ideology?
Judaism is a bit unique, as there are those who culturally identify themselves
as Jewish without maintaining the belief, however it also encompasses many
races, and there are atheist Jews....can one be an atheist Christian? Or
is
Christianity a belief....something one CHOOSES to be affiliated with?
NS> The point I was trying to make to DW was, that to label someone with
a
NS> whole bunch of negatives just because they are a Christian, is wrong
NS> by any ethical standards.
Yes. The word you were shooting for was "bigoted" not "racist"....it is
a bit
of racism to suggest that Christianity is identifiable by any one race,
blondhaired, blue-eyed paint by number pictures of Jesus aside.
NS> If DW had written to me in the same vein, because I was black, would
NS> you still be leaping to his defense?
Not unless I thought there was some sort of black ideology that makes being
black inherently suspect (which I don't), and that you chose your pigmentation.
What makes Holysmoke different from most religious echos and society at
large
is that you are NOT starting from a position of respect here. You earn it
(and you earn ridicule) based on your words, and much of that comes from
the
first impression you make. IMO, you are overcoming your first impression,
and that is no easy task when you are in the company of people with long
memories, finely tuned bullshit detectors....and archives.
In society, Christians are defaulted on the side of respect until proven
otherwise...it is such a natural thing to them, that it is a shock to not
be
accorded the same here. Here you face the opposite....much as atheists,
pagans and anyone else NOT Christian are dealt in the "real world". If
the
flipping of common standards is uncomfortable, well and good. There are
really only two ways to react to it...the most common is to curl up into
a
little ball and demand everyone stop being so MEAN to you...the second is
to
let it lead you to some thought about how you, as a Christian, really perceive
and treat those who do not share your beliefs. You are showing me that
your
desire is to understand the reasons behind the hostility, and I applaud
you
for it.
LB> :) Only two years of community college here, but might I suggest that
LB> you, educated on two continents tho you may be, take a bit of EXTRA
LB> time to proof read any post where you're bragging about your superior
LB> education.
NS> It was never my intention to brag about my education, it is a simple
NS> statement of facts. The "spin" is all yours.
:) I'll stand by the spin, however. We see the educational chestbeating
go on
too often here....and if one is going to do so, the only way to avoid outbursts
of hilarity is to make sure your spelling....in THAT sort of post, at least,
doesn't indicate too blatently that said education overlooked the basics.
Sort of makes the validity of the remaining claims suspect, you see.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Beach's Law: No two identical parts are alike.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: EXEMPLIFYING EXAMPLES
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:25:00
EID:0d81 22566320
Lynda and Roger were killing time yakking about EXEMPLIFYING EXAMPLES:
DC> It seems it's "not allowed" by most all xian sects around these
DC> parts. Most likely, they make sure that their women do not
DC> wear paten leather shoes, too.
LB> Shoes?? The denominations in your area let the women wear SHOES?? ;)
RH> Well, it's a liberal sect, you see, not Real True Christians (tm)
Ah, damn those False Christian Scum!
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
... I looked up executrix. It has nothing to do w/ leather and high heels.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:25:00
EID:d457 22566b20
>>> Part 1 of 3...
Don and Norman were killing time yakking about Fundy Frolics:
DM> something like 3,000 "incidents" at abortion clinics yearly, ranging
DM> from failed arson attempts and vandalism up to bombings and
DM> shootings with fatalities, and it has been going on for years. I am
DM> unaware of _any_ such incident, where the perpetrator has been
DM> caught, where he has has been found to have acted from anything but
DM> religious motives.
NS> Do they have no thought whatsoever, to the pain any woman must be
NS> feeling who finds themselves having to take this option. The process
NS> must hard enough to get through without having a massive guilt trip
NS> laid on you.
No, you fail to understand. To these minds, that guilt is a GOOD thing...it
is their primary weapon. Where that fails, terror then comes into play.
NS> What of Doctors, nurses their families who have lost their lives,
NS> either as a fact or because a loved one had been taken from them. I
Oh, they are forces of Satan for participating in the abortion. To grieve
over
them instead of gleefully dancing at the image of them burning in hell would
be ungodly.
NS> fail to see how they can arrive at this "solution". To every rule
NS> their are exceptions for example if all abortions were to be banned,
NS> lives of babies and mothers would be lost when the mother could have
NS> been saved.
Indeed. But in fundy-think, those mothers are sinful and the babies aren't,
so she comes second. And if the baby croaks too, that's ok, because they
are going to heaven anyway. Unless you're talking to Jim Staal - then the
baby is going to hell if mama isn't saved.
Yes, its confusing. Yes, its absurd. And people are vandalizing clinics
and
attempting to outlaw abortion here due to these absurdities.
NS> The answer is it must be left to the descretion of Doctor and mother,
NS> no Doctor must be made to to do such surgery against his/her will, and
NS> another Doctor who is willing to go ahead must be found.
I'm curious....is there some mandate in England attempting to require doctors
to perform medical procedures they find unethical? Having no real public
health care system here, we do not have that problem.
NS> The scale of it (the incidents) shocks me, and i wish with all my
NS> heart that I could do something to help. To do so I need good and
NS> reliable info. to confront these "wolves" in "sheeps" clothing.
As do we...I would wish more Christians were vocal about policing their
own.
NS> Their mandate is to council anyone setting about an abortion, without
NS> any preasure for or against, and continue with love and support what
NS> ever choice the mother takes. But right now they have lost any trust,
NS> and should be relying on prayer. I could say a whole load more but
I
NS> am having to rush to meet my midnight deadline.
Most Christian pregnancy councilling seems to consist of getting the poor
woman alone and then showing pictures of dead fetuses (some protestors are
fond of carrying around formaldehyde jars containing a pickled fetus), and
conducting an intense program of brainwashing and intimidation to ensure
that she not abort, often requiring her to become "saved" before they will
offer her real assistance. Sometimes that will be to encourage her to raise
the child, whether she has the financial means to do so or not. Often if
the
woman is white and not drug addicted, the very next step is to usher her
into
the office of one of their christian lawyers to sign a lot of contracts
to
have the child placed for adoption to a good christian family...who is willing
to pay a lot of money to shortcut the standard adoption red tape and get
a
good healthy white baby.
NS> If it is their choice to pray, they should rise early in the morning
NS> and do before school starts. In this way they might dedicate
NS> themselves to schoolwork whilst they are in school as a "worship
NS> offering" to God.
(G) A suggestion that always seems to annoy them. Many accuse the public
school system of undermining "family values", yet suggesting that morning
prayer conducted as a family prior to leaving for the day doesn't quite
appeal to them. The reasons are simple - its not THEIR children they are
worried about, its those poor damned heathen children they want to make
sure
get indoctrinated before they are old enough to think about it.
NS> It is not the job of Christians to judge or condem any group of people
NS> homosexuals are no exception. They should me met with unconditional
NS> love and acceptance. Did Jesus not say that "let he who is without
NS> sin cast the first stone". He^ had already told them that "if any man
NS> says he was without sin the truth was not in him and was a liar"
Out of curiousity, where does England stand such issues as same-sex marriage,
inheritance rights for a same sex partner, same sex partners being allowed
access in a hospital when 'family only' visitation is in force, spousal
>>> Continued to next message...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.23į
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 2/3
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:19:00
EID:d4a7 22566a60
>>> Part 2 of 3...
benefits for taxation and employer sponsered healthcare, etc?
You see, it is not JUST about individual hostility....the christian stance
that homosexuality is a 'sin' has led to the denial of legal rights that
heterosexuals take for granted.
DM> Bandsma, caught a thief in South Carolina. Where the material has
DM> anything to do with sex, the human body, or religions other than
DM> Christianity, the perps are overwhelmingly (like 99.999999%)
NS> They must be getting sucked into some very strange teaching, are they
NS> saying that the tri-omnies God they serve is helpless, if they pray
NS> and God does not act they should rest upon His^ decision.
Looks that way, doesn't it? Deep down, most christians put about as much
'faith' in God actually doing anything as any atheist does. The way they
choose to act as his representative varies and acts as an excellent
barometer of just how they view him.
NS> Wrong again, Christian teaching is that they must honour and obey
NS> their fathers and mothers and that includes the fathers and mothers
of
NS> other peoples children.
But, Norman! GOD doesn't honor those dirty, evil heathens....why should
his
agents do any more? ;)
NS> Breaking the law for Christians is not allowed, except in severe
NS> circumstances, such as being the right to practice their own services.
A loophole easily dealt with by declaring any issue the christian in question
feels is important as being "severe". Hence, they use hysteria tactics
to
try to rally others to agree that it is severe enough to lay aside that
silly
lawbreaking rule.
DM> gay, for instance, that gospel could well have come wrapped around a
DM> brick a block or so from the place of business.
NS> Tell me this would be breaking your national laws, and that they are
NS> punished for such acts.
Most of our laws are state and local ordinances rather than "national law".
And in those cases, they are dealt with by local authorities. Find yourself
in some of the more backwoods areas, and that means that the civil authorities
have a reserved front row pew at the local evangelical church, and a KKK
robe
hanging in the closet.
Yes, officially, vandalism is illegal. Getting it enforced however is close
to impossible...many pagans could tell you stories about how the police
spent more time searching their premises for signs of "satan worship" than
they did to gain evidence in order to track down the perpetrator.
NS> Sadley that you can only do for yourself. But you go on to suggest
NS> that the topic cannot be discused without this "evidence", I think it
NS> can don't you?
DM> Sure, the same way Hamlet, Huckleberry Finn, and Lady Bracknell
DM> may be discussed. Anyone attempting to propose Hamlet, Huckleberry
DM> Finn, Lady Bracknell, et al. as some sort of basis of ethical
DM> conduct needs first to establish them as something more than
DM> fictions.
NS> I'm not sure that any of the above would come out with a moral
NS> framework that any of us would be capable of swallowing as good. But
:) That is exactly the argument against using the Bible as a moral framework.
Especially in the hands of those who insist that ever word of it is penned
directly from the hand of god, and therefore dissenting discussion is not
to
be allowed.
NS> The big thing as an echo you could do is to cut out the anti-chriatian
NS> flaming from word one with new people test some out a bit more you
NS> may as a result get people on the inside to take back your hijacked
NS> Christianity.
:) The walk through fire when you enter IS a part of the testing procedure...
reactions under pressure often reveal more truth than does polite discourse.
And, in the interests of efficiency, it helps to ferret out the crackpots
sooner rather than later.
NS> Otherwise you will send people with enquiring minds out
NS> thinking you are the worst bunch, who invent lies, and some do come
up
NS> with some whoppers in here.
Which lies have you seen? Can you be specific?
NS> Where I find christians who are getting it wrong I will tell them so
NS> with = vigour to anybody else that does. Great debate comes from all
NS> wrong posts being chalanged, partyzan debates just polarise and
NS> no one gives any ground.
>>> Continued to next message...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.23į
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 3/3
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:19:00
EID:14f6 22566a60
>>> Part 3 of 3...
But what you are calling partisanship was in fact your own surprise at having
your posts challenged....one need not only challenge 'wrong' posts, but
ALL
posts. Those that have some validity to them will be able to rise to that
challenge.
And tell the truth, Norman....you're posting here because you LIKE the
challenge it presents. Holysmoke isn't for everyone....for the loons who
want
to only engage in hostility (and that include many christians who come here
to scream about "Die and Fry"), it provides an excuse to do so...and for
those
who are seeking to finetune their arguments for their own viewpoint, it
offers
a "tough" audience, which can be very helpful. It also offers a LOT of
information from some of the best minds it's been my good fortune to know,
and
no small amount of comaraderie and humor. This is not a 'nice' place, but
its
a very worthwhile one.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž An improper mind is a perpetual feast.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0 2442/0
SEEN-BY: 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Commercials
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:49:30
EID:88ac 2257ae2f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1b15cf0c
PID: FM 2.02
Ever listen to the words of commercials? Amazing.
One opens with "We do it every year, just my dad and me."
Then is closes with, "You'd think that after all these years we'd catch
something." "Like what?"
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Holy terrorism in the news
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:24:57
EID:311e 2257b31c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1b16594a
PID: FM 2.02
As everyone doubtless saw a religious zealot shot 10 people (most of whom
were tourists) and then himself today. The reports that I've seen indicate
that he was heard yelling something about Egypt with "Allah ackbar!" tossed
in every now and then.
It also seems as though the Christian terrorist individual or organization
responsible for the bombings of abortion clinics last month are also being
tied with the terrorist bombing of the Olympics last year. It seems that
the materials and design used were identicle.
To all theists: They're yours. Why don't you clean up your own shit for
once?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: WATER AND FLOOD.
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:27:26
EID:9f50 2257b36d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1b16594b
PID: FM 2.02
MG> Water is noncompressable. If you were to fill the drums so that there
MG> was no air inside and the seals were air tight, you could beat it for
MG> eternity (or until the drum broke) and never make a dent in it.
rh> Wrong, Martin. Hitting the side would cause the lid/bottom to bulge.
rh> Now if it was a sphere instead of a cylinder, you would be correct.
You're both wrong. Water is indeed compressable yet the fusion
process which results translates the material into a crystal metal -- if
I'm not mistaken.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:29:10
EID:10e8 2257b3a5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1b16594c
PID: FM 2.02
KY> All the proof I need is that we are here. At least until, someone can
KY> provide me a better explanation of how we originally got here.
Well, silly, I already suggested two reading lessons for you and you ignored
them entirely. You have no intention of learning the origin of species
-- you've been fed lies by your masters and programmed to believe without
question everything they feed you.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 26 Feb 97 07:54:10
EID:fd3f 225a3ec5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d222
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 d13502e7
PID: FM 2.02
KY> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
Which theory is this? Have any background information on this? Any names
of people who hold this theory? Well? Why aren't you answering?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I'm a lot less judgemental than you. - Martin Goldberg
I'll be the judge of that. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 07:56:29
EID:714b 225a3f0e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d223
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330f0f24
PID: FM 2.02
fR> If you bag a Staal is _deducts_ from the total accumulated.
dc> Ahhh, Fred.... that's what I said. Perhaps you
dc> should join Brawley in one of Curry's classes!
FR> No please! Don't send me into the same class as Brawley! I'll
FR> promise to learn how to add, I swear!
dc> Just remember, I could have been really nasty and threatened
dc> to send you to spend a week at Chez Staal, the home of Zero
dc> Class. (Hmmm, I think I got Brawley on that, too!)
Yes, you got his number.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ They (Creationists) have the same loss for words that afflicts a
child who knows he's been caught in a blatant lie. - Al Nevison
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Critical Thinking
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:00:19
EID:4edb 225a4009
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d224
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330d2bd4
PID: FM 2.02
dg> Go ahead, but
dg> after this message, don't expect me to respond to it.
My, that certainly will help you win one for your gods, huh? Get hurt and
resentful at your superiors at having proven your delusions a lie then demand
you don't have to put up with the truth because they're "just personal attacks."
Another coward for a christ. Another coward for himself.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Instead of the mandatory moment of silence, how about
a mandatory moment of science? - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Another resurrection
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:04:49
EID:bf65 225a4098
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d225
PID: FM 2.02
Two nights ago a man and his dog were in a house which caught fire. While
the man escaped without much injury, the dog, Scruffy by name, was overcome
by smoke and died.
Two passing off-duty firefighters stopped at the blaze and, after assiting
the man, took oxygen to the dog and pounded on it for a while. Eventually
they resurrected the dog and the two will be reunited after the man gets
out of the hospital for minor burns.
To all you Christians: Why aren't you worshiping this god as well? It
died for your "sins" and came back from the dead just like your "Jesus"
god did. Why aren't you worshiping it as well? At least this one has evidence
that god Scruffy exists.
Well?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Did you have a point to make (hopefully one which doesn't call
for dead presidents rising from their graves to destroy the
world -- ROFL!)? -- Hector Plasmic to John Prewett
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:07:59
EID:1aa3 225a40fd
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d226
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 42763e0d
PID: FM 2.02
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the
KY> most superior beings out there. But, if you really want to be
KY> stupid, and refuse to even accept the possibility of a god,
KY> go right ahead.
The height of arrogancy is to presume to create gods. In actual fact your
intellectual and moral superiors recognize the undeniable fact that all
animals -- humans as well -- are equally well fit for their ecological nich.
It is the self-delusional liars which create fictional deity constructs
to avoid taking responsibility for their actions which are inferior.)
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Hello Imbecile... - Jan Deboer
And just how long did you work for the diplomatic corps? - Dave Hamilton
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:09:43
EID:aabb 225a4135
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d227
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1a9481e2
PID: FM 2.02
DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
DR> by Dr. Sagan.
dw> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have a copy.
FR> With another click you could have bought _ME_ a copy!
em> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
em> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
em> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
It isn't fiction. Sagan goes through the superstition and occultism which
is tyrannizing the world (and has always done so) and covers some of the
reasons why specific occultisms (such as deity beliefs) manage to remain
even in this so-called "enlightened" era.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ ATHEIST. I'm going to love waving to you when you go to hell, and
i'm in heaven. - Christopher Calabrese
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:10:20
EID:bda3 225a414a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d228
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 cfaed860
PID: FM 2.02
KY> WHat to you constitutes a "cult church?"
Perhaps you should look up the meaning of both words in a dictionary, dear.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Spare me the chirping birds and pretty flowers crap. - QUENTIN FAI
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:12:41
EID:4085 225a4194
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d229
REPLY: 1:3603/210 387ebc75
PID: FM 2.02
dc> Ahhh, Fred.... that's what I said. Perhaps you should
dc> join Brawley in one of Curry's classes!
FR> No please! Don't send me into the same class as Brawley!
FR> I'll promise to learn how to add, I swear!
rc> OK. What's one star plus three squares?
One star General Linda Thompson. Tres square.
rc> I've been teaching my goddaughter some abstract algebra and
rc> group theory; she likes almost any of these math games.
rc> Oh, all right -- since you can't very well answer
rc> the question without an addition table, here you go:
[...cuts...]
rc> It's a finite abelian group, and all the elements are nilpotent. Feel
rc> free to suggest a model for it (it's neat to see what people think up).
Why thanks. I'll work it into today's meeting. }:-}
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ How many days of the week are named after *Christian* gods? - Brian
Kolacy
April Fool's Day - Rob Burcham
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Found Christians on the Web
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:15:49
EID:801a 225a41f8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22a
REPLY: 1:123/67 330ef0e0
PID: FM 2.02
ss> Aryan Nations is not a new right-wing organization suddenly appearing
on
ss> the scene. Aryan Nations is the on-going work of Jesus the Christ
ss> regathering His people, calling His people to a state for their nation
ss> to bring in His Kingdom! We hail His Victory!
Thanks for the update, Shelby!
To all Christians: These racists bigots are what your death cult is all
about.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Try a Jihad with me, and you'll meet Allah quicker
than you can spell Remmington. - George Rudzinski
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Caller Identification
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:21:31
EID:1440 225a42af
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22b
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e59c6
PID: FM 2.02
dw>> Ah! That was you! I got some weird shit on my caller ID box,
FR> have presented the entire 10-digit code, though, since I was calling
FR> in from the PSTN behind a Centrex. I wonder what you got.
dw> Oh, the number came in fine. This is deluxe caller ID, though -
dw> it gives the number *and* the name. The name was some weird
dw> abbreviation...
dw> SNFN PACM, CA to be exact. Since I have no idea
dw> what a SNFN PACM, CA is, I chose not to take the call. :)
Regional code for Sanfernando Valley, city code for Pacoima, state code
for California. I had no idea they were passing along that information.
It enables you to identify the originating endpoint's 5ESS switch. You
could then pass that code into your targeting computer, press a button,
and, with a very small pony bomb, be assured of killing everyone within
the local calling distance of that switch.
Very useful for when Terry's New World Order takes over.
dw>> I'll probably talk to you before you receive this message.
FR> We talked just today, in fact!
dw> Indeed. I must apologize for any incoherence -
dw> you woke me out of a dead sleep. :)
You sounded the same as usual to me.
FR> So... How soon do you think before we take over?
dw> Against guys like KY? We've already won.
Fuck, we were unopposed.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ You've just blown your only chance at salvation. See you in Hell.
- John Silvester
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing list for just us
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:22:12
EID:6558 225a42c6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e5821
PID: FM 2.02
FR> their mail and then execute a program -- and
fr> I'm also assuming that everyone uses Eudora.
dw> You assume wrong. :)
I'll move up the requirement for everyone to use Eudora once we take over.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Fundies are proof that evolution is an unguided phenomena.
- Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Davidian Christians
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:23:32
EID:1e21 225a42f0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22d
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e584c
PID: FM 2.02
dw>> The Davidians chose, for whatever reason, the second option. I
dw>> can't bring myself to muster too much sympathy for them.
FR> I opine they got better justice by being slaughtered than they would
FR> have gotten by going through the courts.
dw> That depends on how much money they
dw> could have raised beforehand. Witness OJ.
That's quite true except the Davidians would need to play the religion card
rather than the race card. I don't know how many Davidians there were yet
they could have received ___MILLIONS___ of dollars from right-wing extremists
around the world.
Maybe they would have done better going to court.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ [I] have some time available to attempt gently correcting the nasty
enemies of God in this echo. - Richard Thorneycroft
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Christanic slavery
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:25:50
EID:df34 225a4339
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22e
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33102dcd
PID: FM 2.02
Darryl Gonzalez
DG>> Slavery's over, man, get over it! In this country,
dg>> as I said above, it died with our great-grandparents.
sq> Oh, man...
sq> I wonder if this guy knows who "Jim Crow," "Rosa Parks,"
sq> and "Martin Luther King" were.
They're not in his mythologies so they don't exist. But hell, this guy
is a perfect example of a robotic slave to his masters and yet he wants
to ignore the fact that he's mouthing off what he's been tld for years in
his churches without any thought.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ When I seen him on TV, I'd mostly watch his motions, just to see how
he acted. The same voice. I said "God, what a freak. Kinky. Here he
is up there preaching for all this money and when I see him, he's
kinky and cheap."
-- Debra Murphree refering to Jimmy Swaggart
(Penthouse magazine, July 1988)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Still waiting
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:28:21
EID:ceb0 225a438a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d22f
PID: FM 2.02
Well? You claimed that Christanics can't be racists and rape and murder.
David R. produced a list of many such instances and many other people have
also enumerated more.
Did you learn anything about your death cult? Or have your masters gotten
to you again?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ If only more christians read their bibles there'd be less christians.
- Derek W. Clayton
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:33:00
EID:6e8a 225a4420
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d230
PID: FM 2.02
MK> So how do your gods decide if an infant goes to
MK> heaven or hell, Jimbo? A roll of the dice?
JS> Two things here: a. I do not have 'gods'. Just God[sic].
Are you claiming you left the Christanic death cult now?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I don't want a couple of skunks fighting over your ears in
my backyard. :) - Steve Quarrella
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: USA CyberCensor's Law
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:33:56
EID:05c0 225a443c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d231
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3106d1e3
PID: FM 2.02
itlp> THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
For when the TANKS attack, dear?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ You apparently want the whacko flowers and light conference
down the hall. Just follow the trail of drool, and check your
soul with Winters at the door. - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: USA CyberCensor's Law
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:34:36
EID:05c0 225a4452
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d232
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3106d206
PID: FM 2.02
> THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
> It's a one-two punch...
First inject poisonous gas into the building, then use TANK mounted flame
throwers to cook everyone inside, right?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ yet the Resus monkey can hold a conversation in English
once his vocal cords are alterd - Dan Lafferty
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Parker a "Libertarian"
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:47:31
EID:eb5b 225a45ef
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d233
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6ed8
PID: FM 2.02
Terry Liberty-parker
ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?" Swift :)
TL> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
rs> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks like. Damn.
Yes, if this clown represented real Libertarians, I would stop voting Libertarian
as well. The guy is active in Libertarian newsgroups and writes a right-wing
extremist newsletter which spouts often about how he and his friends are
"Libertarians." Yet his associations and the rhetoric of he and his friends
are that of right-wing extremists. (In fact, if anyone knows if he's in
the right-wing extremist CIVLIB echo, please let me know.) If one looks
at what these nuts write without being shown the author's name, one might
be able to conclude that G. Gorgon Liddy is the author.
I haven't seen many Libertarians suggest the purchase of materials created
by people who call for the armed take over and murder of every government
office and official in Washingtion, have you? But then she "recalled" the
"order" to march, yes, and Parker hasn't been heard suggesting such purchases
in like two years now, true. Does he still advocate the purchase of the
tape?
For some mysterious reason Parker elected not to answer my accusations.
He refused to answer whether he still suggests people buy Linda Thompson's
"Waco: The Big Lie." If he simply indicated that he acknowledges the video
is a hoax and a fraud, then I would in return acknowledge his dropping of
that right-wing extremist association.
Well, Terry? I asked here and in nework mail. Here's try number 3.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Is it true that 25% of your gender is gay? - George Boyles
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Libertarians
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:48:46
EID:d0da 225a4617
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d234
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6ed8
PID: FM 2.02
ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?" Swift :)
TL> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
rs> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks like. Damn.
If you're looking for something a little more to the left of Terry, why
not consider joining the Republican party?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ To have an understanding of the universe one doesn't need
scientific technology. - Andrew Conner (A New Age Creationist)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:08:03
EID:9163 225a4901
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 00135384
PID: FM 2.02
kw> Why bother--as they don't seem to be
kw> capable of understanding the why of it.
FR> I suspect that every Promise Keeper master understand very
fr> much what they're doing -- and that they're motivated by
fr> nothing more nobel than greed.
kw> Remember, Fred, that those masters are given their
kw> power *by* the mindless sheep. Granted, that's why
kw> they are only allowed to live such limited hate
kw> filled lives, but they did choose to live those lives.
Irony, huh? The enslaved have the power to select whom they will be enslaved
by and don't seem ever to consider that the motivations of their masters
are nothing like their own.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem to
particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart from God
even further than do pagan men. - (Jim Staal, Promise Keeper)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Ritual Christian cannimalism vs. Poptarts
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:11:28
EID:a25c 225a496e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0b8b0763
PID: FM 2.02
DR> I mean, can I have your permission?
mk> Why do you feel you need it? Problem with your sense of self-esteem?
FR> He's used to having to ask permission of his masters to take a shit.
FR> ~*~ It's what the world needs most: a God that TASTES GOOD. - J.J.
Hitt
kw> Is that why the Cult of
kw> Wild Berry Pop-Tarts is taking over IRC #holysmoke????
Yeah? I gotta join that one!
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I would give all I owned to the Church. I know Jesus Christ directs
the affairs of the Church and would without question give it all.
- Ric Remington (Mormon fundy)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Ken Young: Which god?
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:12:08
EID:0a63 225a4984
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129c
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b2487c48
PID: FM 2.02
RS>> Which God?
KY> Isn't it obvious? There is only one god. If I meant another,
KY> meaning a false god, then I would have mentioned their names..
FR> Why won't you fundies ever answer honest questions honestly?
FR> Answer the question, Ken. Which god are you refering to?
kw> I think he's trying to tell you that he worships Satan.
Yes, the god of lies. I think you're right.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I bet you get upset at the Lucky Charms leprachaun
doesn't leave enough blue stars in your cereal. - Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Al S. Did he fly the echo?
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:23:12
EID:f5ee 225a4ae6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129d
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe7a
PID: FM 2.02
FR> But then Al is an evil little fucker who can't stand the thought
FR> of actually having to face the consequences of his own beliefs:
FR> That his expensive emotional and financial investment in the
FR> death cult has been utterly and profoundly wasted. (And another
FR> little secret he can't share.)
FR> It's no wonder he must try to lie to himself to try vainly to
FR> salvage what he can.
FR> Pity the fucker.
jdb> Al seems to have moved on to greener pastures?
I doubt it. He's probably just busy taking care of the real world for a
time. When he leaves I expect a full Song and Dance about how we've all
had good fun and learned a lot and how there's nothing more to learn since
we're all to "proud," or "in denial" and such nonsense. I haven't seen
any so I make the assumption he's simply taking care of the real world or
looking for another feed.
Let's hope he's working on casting off his religion.
When he first made the mistake of participating here he tried his best to
appear to be one of the more reasonable fundies. He still doesn't sound
like a Jim Staal or a Ken Young yet we're working on it.
I didn't follow closely the discussion about the death of a child or baby
which Al _seems_ to have suggested was for the child's best interest since
it was, to paraphrase from ignorance, guarenteed to go to "heaven" now --
which, again paraphrasing from ignorance, is much more important than any
"temporary" life here on Earth.
I also didn't follow too closely whatever he did to L. Bustillo. Before
I took enough intrest and took a look at Al's web pages he had aparently
removed the offending (or where they actionable?) materials.
I'll see if he's still in #holysmoke on IRC. I think he'll be back when
he's done doing whatever it is he's doing or when he finds a feed.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ My alternative view is that both atheists and theists are both
full of crap! - Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: How DARE you! SLAP!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:39:42
EID:249b 225a4cf5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129e
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe84
PID: FM 2.02
jdb> Fearing dismissal, Igor keeps silent about the tanker of
jdb> holy Water inadvertantly sent to the nuclear power station.
Man, "holy" water is already deadly enough.
jdb> *Mt. St. Helens Presidential Tours - contact Laurie Appleton.
Man, let's not let the fool forget, okay?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ You want to be like Jesus? I'll pound the fucking nails in myself!
- David Hilling
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormons murdering people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:44:44
EID:d640 225a4d96
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129f
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe85
PID: FM 2.02
JD> ROTFL!!! *If* this were true, there wouldn't _be_ any Mormon leaders!
JD> Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it
TH> must be by law, not by someone making an allegation that wasn't
TH> upheld in a court of law. Books like the one you mention often
TH> contain such allegations that people are willing to believe...
TH> Barnum wasn't wrong.
Um, Tom? There are about six books on my shelf which cover _criminal_cases_
instigated against Mormon masters, all of whom either were caught with undeniable
evidence or whom confessed to murder. The Mormon cult is no different than
any other brand name of the Christian death cult -- you don't get to pretend
it's some how different.
LEARN a bit about the Mormon cult, Tom. I suggest "Prophet of Death" by
Pete Early. It covers the Mormon Blood-Atonement Killings by the True Mormon
Masters Jeffrey Don Lundgren and his family.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ In the beginning was the Word... - Steve Bedard
And the word is destroy the non-believers... - Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormons murdering people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:45:05
EID:d640 225a4da2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c89129f
PID: FM 2.02
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a1
JD> ROTFL!!! *If* this were true, there wouldn't _be_ any Mormon leaders!
JD> Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it
TH> must be by law, not by someone making an allegation that wasn't
TH> upheld in a court of law. Books like the one you mention often
TH> contain such allegations that people are willing to believe...
TH> Barnum wasn't wrong.
LEARN a bit about the Mormon cult, Tom. I suggest "Prophet of Death" by
Pete Early. It covers the Mormon Blood-Atonement Killings by the True
Mormon Masters Jeffrey Don Lundgren and his family.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I live to defend in this scum hole. - Richard Thorneycroft (HolySmoke)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:48:27
EID:dee5 225a4e0d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a2
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe86
PID: FM 2.02
jdb> Experiment?....I though it was a contest with
jdb> a Peter Popof prayer cloth as the consolation prize.
fr> In fact the contest is intended to prove that thinking at deity
FR> constructs is a pointless exercise equal in results as thinking
FR> at table cloths.
jdb> At least you can doodle on tablecloths while thinking at them.
jdb> Deity constructs are useless, except for controlling imbeciles.
And justifying one's criminal actions, yes.
Funny, huh? How out of one orafice Christanics demand they don't need evidence
for their deity constructs while out another orafice they demand they _have_
evidence nonetheless. And yet all the "studies" they ever come up with
that "proves" thinking at the Christanic war gods works always -- ALWAYS
-- ends up being a lie.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Have you chosen Satan as your leader? - Phil Morrison
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Sandra Peake -O'boy-
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:49:31
EID:998c 225a4e2f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a3
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe87
PID: FM 2.02
JD> Explain to us how the allpowerfull, omnipotent needs to 'rest', dipshit.
RV> You are dealing with a rouge J.W. fundy.
jdb> Oh. In that case, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sandra!
jdb> MERRY CHRISTMAS, Sandra!
jdb> HAPPY NEW YEAR, Sandra.
jdb> HAPPY ST.Valentines DAY, Sandra!
Ask the J. W. why -- if the world ended in 1948 -- he's still mouthing off
lunacy as though he were a live.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Christ will come sameday. - Leonard Bernier
And that's even better than overnight. - DON MARTIN
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Male dogs?
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:04:12
EID:886b 225a5086
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a4
REPLY: 1:229/622 330db529
PID: FM 2.02
Richard Smith
RS> You've never seen a male dog hump another male dog? You've
RS> never seen a male dog hump your leg? Where have you been?
Well? Answer the question, Ken. We're waiting.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ It is not I who has been brainwashed. (To whom am I talking?)
- Kim Kelley
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Ken's masters
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:06:41
EID:fb5a 225a50d4
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a5
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe7c
PID: FM 2.02
KY> given leukemia to anyone..
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything. Therefore,
DC> he is responsible for the fact that children get leukemia.
KY> God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and
KY> create our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create
KY> leukemia, but more than likely, mankind did.
jdb> And your evidence for this is?
His masters wouldn't like to him now would they?!
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Are you willfully cherishing known sin? - Phil Morrison
Nah....I've been looking for new ones... - Gwenny The Pooh
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Mormon murderings
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:13:54
EID:feb3 225a51bb
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a6
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330dbe85
PID: FM 2.02
JD> ROTFL!!! *If* this were true, there wouldn't _be_ any Mormon
jd> leaders! Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
I've looked in my paper shelves and didn't find a copy of this. I've got
"Prophet of Death: The Mormon Blood-Atonement Killings" sitting on my computer
table.
These Mormon masters were CAUGHT with tortured, raped, and murdered victims
in the dirt floor of their barn -- and yet Mormon death cultists demand
that all the _thousands_ of such incidents are hoaxes caused by their "Satan"
god.
TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it
TH> must be by law, not by someone making an allegation that wasn't
TH> upheld in a court of law. Books like the one you mention often
TH> contain such allegations that people are willing to believe...
TH> Barnum wasn't wrong.
Amazing. Yes, criminal court judges are also doubtless in on the Satanic
conspiracy, buying into these unfounded "allegations" after all. Yes, the
entire Lundgren family were just a bunch of innocent flower arangers whom
the Satanic conspiracy picked to destroy with all these planted murders
-- all the testimony and body parts are all part of it -- because they were
good Christian Mormons.
jdb> Allegations? Guffaw! The book contained much more than
djb> "allegations"! Your response is the usual fundy "IS NOT!"
jdb> GUFFAW!
Imagine what these people are told in their cult houses.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ We were blood brothers, pals forever. He was my very best friend.
Nobody else could see him. I now know he was just pretend. - Dan Barker
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Catholic girls
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:14:37
EID:fb88 225a51d2
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a7
PID: FM 2.02
Catholic girls start much too late?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ You can UV irradiate a cockroach all day long and all
you'll have is a warm cockroach. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:17:35
EID:cca4 225a5231
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a8
REPLY: 1:229/622 330dccae
PID: FM 2.02
Jdb> As for "rarely getting caught", the numbers
jdb> in prison would belie that claim.
dh> Not if the numbers in prison are the tip of an iceberg.
70% of the people in the United States prison system are in for illegal
drug related crimes. And of these more than 5 million people, nearly 100%
of them are Christian.
(I did some research for Green Pastures two months ago.)
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Take a hard look at the Grand Canyon. try to explain
that through evolution. - Freddie Cash
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:23:02
EID:bc01 225a52e1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912a9
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330e1631
PID: FM 2.02
Lynda Bustilloz
DAN CEPPA
LB> Shoes?? The denominations in your area let the women wear SHOES?? ;)
jb> Only to church, Lynda, only to church.
This behavior wouldn't be tolerated in Pat Robertson's Amerkkka!
Then we would have you forbidden-apple-eating harpies walking three paces
behind your masters like in the good old days!
Oh: And the wearing of veils. Gotta make sure that gets on the ballot
next year.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I found it! I found Magog! It's in the province of Quebec ..
in the 819 area code. - Sue Armstrong
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Growing Christanic fascism
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:29:22
EID:f9d7 225a53ab
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912aa
PID: FM 2.02
ch> 24 states have laws outlawing sodomy, DOMA passed overwhelmingly and
was
ch> signed into law despite the fact that the law is quite blatantly
ch> unconstitutional, 17 states have passed laws trying to pre-empt Hawaii,
ch> a school board local in Plano, Texas, banned a book last year from the
ch> public elementary school for no reason other than its discussion of
the
ch> ancient Egyptian mythos...
Growing Christanic fascism as the year 2,000 approaches. People who know
their histories have been expecting this for the past six decades. And
it's going to get worse. The overall body count this time around has already
exceeded 10 million in just Wersternized countries alone.
ch> And then lets not forget all of the Fred Phelpses, Fred Niles and Fred
ch> Cherrys of the world. Something about the name 'Fred' just drives terror
ch> into my heart these days.
And for damn good reason... we're superior in all ways.
In fact about 60 miles from me there is a Fred store -- they sell everything
for Freds. My mother mailed me a catalog and it's got T-shirts, bumper
stickers, book covers, pens, wall paper... thousands of stuff with Fred
logos and imbicillic Fred sayings on it. Kind of like an Irish store, in
fact, with only the word "Irish" exchanged for "Fred."
But we deserve such special treatment. }:-}
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Just because I'm a newbie in HolySmoke doesn't mean I'll
put up with this typical fundie bullshit. - Becke Jones
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:33:44
EID:dee2 225a5436
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ab
PID: FM 2.02
>> humanities souls in volcanos so he can blow them sky high with
>> a-bombs, and the super civilization of Atlantes.
Xenu, Warrior Princess!
ch> Well, I don't know about IPHs, but IPUs certainly exist. I've
ch> never been taken in a UFO but I do like OVNIs. Never had a
ch> clam-flashback, though.
I routinely have clam-flashbacks... my jaws hurt.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ . . . Fuck, I'll come right out and say it: I'd very much -love-
to put a woman over my knees and spank her round, soft, warm,
firm butt until it's blushing pink and stinging smartly.
There! I said it, and I'm -glad- I said it. It's 100% true.
- David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:35:57
EID:05dd 225a547c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ac
PID: FM 2.02
ch> combined with the legal system that encourages lawsuits for absolutely
ch> every and anything? I mean, what doctor is going to risk a potentially
ch> dangerous operation without backup in a society where a woman can get
ch> $3 million dollars McDonalds for pouring hot coffee on herself.
I recall watching President Clintoon saying that there are too many lawyers
in Amerikkka and he commented upon the percentages of engineers in Japan
and India to underscore the need to teach people _VALUES_ as well as things
of value to socity in the United States.
It looks like his views didn't change a thing. The lawyer mills are still
producing vampires sucking the health out of the country... where we already
have one lawyer for every 5 citizens.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ New twist on the chicken or the egg question: which came
first, the bible or the bigot? -- ROB BURCHAM
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:45:12
EID:4d42 225a55a6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ad
PID: FM 2.02
DR>> That's true. Atheism = "without theism," i.e. a lack of
DR>> belief in the gods. No faith involved.
>> Faith that they don't exist?
ch> No, that would be Objectivism. *grin* (Or, to quote my fiance,
ch> "Randroidism".) And before anyone jumps up and down at me, I've
ch> read Atlas Shrugged many times, and I still reread it about once
ch> a year. It's excellent fiction. Rand just makes the mistake of
ch> saying "I've worked out this great system of ethics based on logic
ch> and reason. So everyone shut up and do it my way!"
Rand created quite a cult which continues today -- and it's utter lunacy.
Humans simply aren't a reasonable species so appeals to reason are ultimately
destined to fail. Only as humanity evolves will Objectivism have a chance.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Atheism is no more a religion than abstinence is a form of drinking.
- Marilyn Burge
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: HOMOSEXUALS ALSO REPR
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:51:42
EID:6d6e 225a5675
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ae
PID: FM 2.02
FR> The majority of the adult homosexual individuals around the world --
FR> male and female alike -- have participated in a successfull breeding
at
FR> least once in their lives. Most homosexual adults reproduce just as
FR> most heterosexual adults reproduce. In fact percentages of adult
FR> homosexuals having participated in successful breeding are roughly
FR> equal to the percentages of adult heterosexuals having done the same.
rh> STOP! I agree that hetero behavior is -possible- for a gay man, but
rh> the key word above is COUPLE and a gay couple (male or female)
rh> cannot have a baby. My original statement about lesbians was wrong.
rh> Neither a sperm donor nor a surrogate mother is part of the couple.
I don't think you understand what _I_ said. Homosexual couples routinely
have babies _together_. And I'm further curious why you're having difficulty
understanding this.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ What the Bible says..[sic] - Ken Young
... depends on who's reading it. - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing li
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:53:42
EID:a08d 225a56b5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912af
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22558536
PID: FM 2.02
FR> No, Hector was killed in a boating accident about seven or eight months
FR> ago off the coast of Calcutta. All that was found was a life raft with
FR> a well-fed Goat inside standing among a smal pile of clothes and a pair
FR> of eye glasses.
mk> Hector don't do boats, and Hector don't wear glasses (though
mk> he could probably use a pair now) other than sunglasses. I'm
mk> sending you a picture of Hector so you'll realize that he's
mk> either returned from the dead, or you were a victim of
mk> Sheets Sherman. :-)
My Eudora is set up to reject large inbound files and before I could turn
that feature off, it rejected two of yours -- a MIME and then a UUENCODED
format. I _think_ I can still get the UUENCODED one off of my ISP server,
though.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ A phone call to fido headquarters seems to be in demand.
- Brian La Plante
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:54:53
EID:8b2d 225a56da
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b0
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22558538
PID: FM 2.02
DC> John really doesn't have a clue, does he.
mk> Clues are, unfortunately, nonlocal to John.
His clues occur wihin the period of uncertainty so no one can observe them.
DC> I just wonder what Hector would say about this.
mk> He's too busy laughing at Holysmoke to say much at the moment. :-)
From inside the guts of a Goat? }:-}
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ ** Sins are washed away in Jesus' name baptism ** - Brad Jackson
But does he get out those stubborn skid marks? - Norbert Sykes
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: David's disassociative states
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:55:58
EID:720c 225a56fd
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b1
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 2255853a
PID: FM 2.02
Everything about us seems secondhand, even our emotions.
- David Ragland
Let's hope he doesn't have a dog which tells him what to do.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Maybe if we came back to God, crops would do better.. -- KEN YOUNG
(A Christian fundy who also shakes in fear at thunder and lightening)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:57:04
EID:277d 225a5722
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b2
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22558540
PID: FM 2.02
KY> Because that is what an athiest is- one that believes no god exists.
Name _three_ atheists in this forum who state there are no gods, dear.
Do it now.
What's taking you so long? Could it be your masters have been lying to
you?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ ...we're having an orgy Friday and would like you to come....
oops, I made a pun... - Gwenny The Pooh
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Answer the question
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:58:02
EID:2050 225a5741
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b3
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22558540
PID: FM 2.02
DR>> Do you believe Santa Claus exists? If not, do you have
DR>> faith he does not exist, or does logic and reason tell
DR>> you he does not exist?
Answer the question, Ken. What's taking you so long?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ They live very dark, disgusting lives. - Shawn Swanner
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Driving Over Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:09:31
EID:403f 225a592f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b4
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 22558548
PID: FM 2.02
KY>>> Seems that when this was more of a
ky>>> Christian society, things were a lot better.
Amazing. Yes, things were a lot better back in the 1400's, too.
MB>> Better for whom? You mean back in the days of lynchings, Jim Crow
MB>> laws, and all that? I repeat: better for whom?
KY> Better for society in general.
mk> You mean better for middle-class white Christians, not
mk> "society in general," Kenny (and there's much room for
mk> disagreement even on that count). Or would you like to
mk> claim that sitting in the back of the bus or swinging
mk> from a tree was good for "black society?"
I wonder if this fuck even notices that the population has doubled since
the 1960's.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Laugh my tush off as i watch you burn in the Christian hell forever.
- Raoul Newton
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Driving over Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:15:34
EID:f02d 225a59f1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b5
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330d8e87
PID: FM 2.02
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation? And, at
what a fucking bigot. Er, unfucking bigot, I guess.
dw> Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public? Have you
dw> ever held hands with her? Why did you feel the need to advertise
dw> your sexual orientation like that?
Have you ever fornicated on the ground in public? Have you ever walked
up behind a woman in sexual congress with another man and licked her backside
from crotch to shoulders? }:-}
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it Is God's
punishment for the society that Tolerates Homosexuals. - Jerry Falwell
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Sacrifice kids for religion
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:18:08
EID:b994 225a5a44
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e514f
PID: FM 2.02
dc> "I held my hands around her neck for about five minutes
dc> with my face pressed to hers," Avi Kostner said Tuesday
dc> in court.
Thanks for the heads-up... I'll see if I can follow this story.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ JESUS CHRIST WILL COME, WETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT. - Leonard Bernier
He sure is taking a long time. I'm quite sore. - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Over Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:20:28
EID:8373 225a5a8e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e5ff0
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Oh, you know... when innocent women were being burned,
FR> Jews were being burned and disemboweled, niggers knew
FR> their place, faggets were safely in the closet, girls
FR> never had abortions -- they just went away to visit a
FR> sick Aunt for a year.
KY> Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
dc> What stuff above were you in favor of, Kenny?
Answer the question, Ken. What's taking you so long?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ Fascism is fascism, David, no matter if it is cloaked
in swastikas or crosses. - David Worrell
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:21:34
EID:71b5 225a5ab1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b8
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e6213
PID: FM 2.02
KY> WHy would I disapprove of someone because they are black?
dc> Why would you disapprove of someone because they are gay?
Answer the question, Ken.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ A year long global flood? Sure...Why is there no evidence then? - ML
Umm... "the evidence was destroyed in the flood." - Styx Allum
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:23:45
EID:71b5 225a5af6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912b9
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e6371
PID: FM 2.02
KY> our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create leukemia,
KY> but more than likely, mankind did.
DC> Provide the names of the scientists that created leukemia. Don't
DC> forget to include in what peer-reviewed journal they published
Answer the question, Ken. Who _specifically_ are you accusing?
KY> Boy, you sure are stupid, aren't you? I did not
ky> say any specific people created it.
dc> You said, "most likely, mankind did." Therefore, someone had
dc> to do the work in creating it. Who are those people, Kenny?
Answer the question, Ken.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I deleted the bible because I needed the room
for all of my Satanic literature - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:26:58
EID:9b02 225a5b5d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ba
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e6ad4
PID: FM 2.02
KY> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not have the
KY> best success in laughing the Christians out of here..
None of us want you fundies to leave. You fundies do far more to help show
us all what your death cult is all about than any thousand of us better
educated ever could.
Please stay. Please participate. We need your help.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ We have a padded cell for you: it's called HOLYSMOKE. - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:29:49
EID:d8cc 225a5bb8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912bb
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e3da9
PID: FM 2.02
dw> I can't wait to hear what Pat thinks of all this. I could almost hope
it
dw> would be the catalyst that causes him to seriously examine his faith,
dw> but I somehow doubt that. We'll probably get a Jimmy Swaggartish tear
dw> filled apology, instead.
Yes, we've seen this in this very forum, haven't we? Christians watching
in abject horror as fellow Christians expose the lunacy that, while they
can't possibly condone, they can't demand isn't what their religion is all
about.
Let's watch and see if Pat makes a statement about the lunacy. Perhaps
he'll simply pass it off as, "well they're not true Christians." Perhaps
he'll do a Jesse Jones or a J. J. and sput-off.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I have not ignored your wife. - Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormon murderings
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:36:30
EID:850c 225a5c8f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912bc
REPLY: 1:115/477.0 8A990D03
PID: FM 2.02
> FR>th> Richard, if it was "the Mormon" in him that "made him do this,"
then
> the
>th> man is self-deceived. I have my doubts that this ya-hoo is a member
of
>th> the Mormon church, or if he is, that he is active. If he is active,
and
>th> is guilty of the crimes that you have reported, then this needs to
be
>th> brought to the attention of the local Mormon leaders. He is certainly
>th> *not* living according to the standards of the Mormons, no matter what
>th> he may claim, and the kind of abuse that he has heaped upon his wife
is
>th> totally out of line with Mormon teachings.
> FR>Ah, yes. The ole "Not True Mormon" dodge. The desire to demand that
all
>the Mormon criminals are incapable of doing what they did and thus the
onus
>of correcting the problem falls upon the atheists.
th> So, you fabricated the whole thing?
That's one way to try to convince yourself the Mormon cult is somehow better
than the rest of the Christian death cult: Ignore the whole issue and ask
a rhetorical question.
All the Christians who rape, torture and murder are in keeping with the
history of the death cult and are fully in line with the ideological cornerstone
of the death cult. History proves what Christianity is. And the history
of the Mormon brand name shows that Mormonism is in keeping with traditional
Christianity.
th> You've come up with an interesting piece of fiction. If it (your story)
th> is true, then there are answers and justice, which have absolutely
th> nothing to do with religion.
For some strange and mysterious reason you elected not to quote any of this
"story." If yo're refering to the Mormon death cult masters Jeffrey Don
Lundgren and his Mormon family, my guess is your masters have been trying
their best to program you robots into believing that the bodies the authorities
uncovered were fakes and that your fellow death cultists were being framed.
Right?
th> Abuse is abuse, no matter where you live, or who is involved. If a wife
th> is abused by her husband, regardless of whether he is atheist or
th> religious, she has the right to turn to the law for help.
And yet for some strange reason you want to play pretend that Mormons who
murder babies and other innocent people weren't Mormons some how.
th> From some of the other responses to your allegations that I've read
in
th> this echo, evidently others do not believe your story. At this point,
th> because you are unwilling to do what is essentially right, I am now
th> thinking that you have produced no more than a red (i.e., ripe) herring.
But then you can't produce the names of any of these "others" you can see
yet no one else can. Provide some names, sweet pea. I want names of people
who claim that the Lundgren murders never happened.
Well? What's the matter? Do you need permission from your "bishop" death
cultist masters to provide the names?
What's taking you so long? Well?
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ For the most part, atheists simply do not do good and ethical things.
-- Jesse C. Jones (the fundy has no clothes)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:37:36
EID:cc4a 225a5cb2
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912bd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f55be
PID: FM 2.02
KY>> to be against homosexuality? And notice, I say,
KY>> homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
KY>> difference.
mg>> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
mg>> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
Answer the question, Ken.
http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
~*~ I wonder if Jesse would do jury duty, or does being a lawyer
disqualify one for a position that requires honest and unbiased
judgement of evidence? - jonny vee
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:38:46
EID:36b8 223374c0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 70ead3ec
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e04ab0
On (17 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to David Worrell...
AS> DW>> As far as I'm aware, no one has even come close to
AS> DW>> destroying the DW>> world.
AS> I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, Dave.
DW> Still not enough to destroy the world, Al. All human life,
DW> maybe, but the world would go on. I'm not surprised, though,
DW> that a Christian equates human society with the world.
AS> But a nuclear winter would kill off most animal life and a
AS> good deal of the plant life, also. It wouldn't extinguish
AS> life. But it would be a while before it bounced back.
AS> If it's not the end of the world, it'll do till the real
AS> things comes along.
1. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Sagan's nuclear
winter has been pretty well debunked.
2. Even if true, I doubt it would do more damage than any
ordinary, naturally caused ice age, which the remaining
organisms have a way of bouncing back from (we're here,
aren't we?).
... The only 4.0 you got in school was your blood alcohol content.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: meaning
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:54:14
EID:9807 223376c0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 41f3ebf8
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e6704c
On (17 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to LEE WOOFENDEN...
RC> LW>> I believe there is a God because I think the universe is a
RC> LW>> better and more sensible place with one than without one.
RC> Is that the kind of reasoning you would use to believe in a
RC> full course dinner behind a door, just because you would like
RC> to have one, and not because there is any actual evidence
RC> of one existing there?
LW> No. Because it might not be _good_ for there to be a full-course
LW> dinner behind the door, whereas I do think it is good for
LW> there to be a God.
Lemme get this straight. He believes there's a god because he
thinks the universe is better off with one than without one.
I believe that illness doesn't exist for EXACTLY the same reason.
Now, I'd like him to explain to me why my sister has been sick
for the past 20 years and is now dying.
... Possessor of a mind not merely twisted but actually sprained.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666))))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:04:50
EID:e273 22337880
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 bb444c7c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a055b
On (18 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Al Schroeder...
CJ> Beginning to get the idea of one reason I'm no longer willing
CJ> to waste much of my time on you?
You asked a question! I SAW IT; you asked a question!
... I confess to an unatural, and abnormal act. I have programmed a computer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:05:48
EID:a5ce 223378a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a0f8980c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a05d2
On (18 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Marilyn Burge...
CJ> On 14 Jan 97 06:38am, MARILYN BURGE wrote to DON MARTIN:
CJ> Semmelweis. Just like the med students of Vienna were doing
CJ> Ob/Gyn immediately after doing their dissections, one could
CJ> suppose Martin's priests might be doing their baptizism after
CJ> chrisming the dead.
I suspect the truth is even worse than you imagine. I suspect the
priest is using the same turkey baster on all the women, without
cleaning it between trips. I also suspect they are getting sepsis
from the water that is used, as it probably comes from the dipping
bowl in the church that everybody else is using day after day to
cross themselves.
... "Taglines: Your last chance to really piss off the other guy!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:40:12
EID:1d48 22337d00
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7bcdc097
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cfbf15
On (16 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg babbled to Al Schroeder...
MG> When I first went into molecular biology, I was given the
MG> seemingly impossbile task of starting with nothing and
MG> producing proteins produced in a bacterial orgnaism that
MG> can't even be cultivated. Not only is it done, but we have
MG> moved on to other more difficult projects.
MG> The prayer question is logs more difficult to perform.
I STILL say it's impossible. You've got two groups, one that the
committee memebers pray for, the other that are given the same
level of care, but no committee members are praying for them.
1. How do we know a family member isn't praying for a merciful
end for somebody in the prayed-for group?
2. How do we know that a family member isn't praying for a cure
for somebody in the not-prayed-for group?
Add to that all your concerns about matching maladies in the two
groups, matching level of care in the two groups, and matching
degrees of sickness in the matching maladies, and you've got a
clear impossibility.
... Wreck the malls with cows on Harleys...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:24:56
EID:9b5a 22338300
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8df0b791
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e156c6
On (18 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Glen Todd...
-> On 17 Jan 97 15:50:02, Glen Todd got back to Al Schroeder
DC> DC>> As it stands, 1/2 of the world is given secondary class
DC> recognition DC>> by the religion you hold.
GT> It's a good deal more than half, Dan -- and growing.
DC> So, just how many more females are born as compared to males?
DC> I knew it was a couple of percentage points. Has that increased?
At birth, there are 51 males for every 50 females. But, males
are more apt to die in the first year. Then teenage nonsense
like playing chicken behind the wheel takes over a widens the
gap even further. It used to be that war widened it even more
after that, but that hasn't been so lately. Then, in old age,
men die sooner than women by about 5 years.
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARILYN BURGE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Where do they do it?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:29:48
EID:14f3 223383a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 3f2bd2eb
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e21e79
On (19 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Glen Todd...
DC> That's it, pretty much across the board with that cult. Try
DC> reading _The Mind of the Believer_ for more on their psychological
DC> profile. ^
Bible
... A clash between the Yugo of belief and the Kenworth of reality.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: RICK MCFARLANE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: truth
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:57:00
EID:178b 2232bf20
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e29ee62
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Marty.
AS> I don't
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
AS> Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.
RM> Why not?
ML> It is not honorable to slay one's enemies whilst they're
ML> convulsed in laughter.
But when it comes down to a choice between honour and a damn effective
battle tactic, which one do you think the average Celt would go for?
Take care.
... It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver. - La Fontaine
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: FANE
|To: LEONARD BERNIER
|Sub: Isaiah 53:7 / Matthew 27:12
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:26:10
EID:e22e 22337340
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 UNREG
MSGID: 1:170/853 32e22f1b
18 Jan 97 15:33, Leonard Bernier wrote to All:
LB> PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be sitent before his accusers.
LB> "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did open His mouth."
* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LB> FULFULLMENT: "And while He was being accused by the chief priests and
LB> elders, He answered nothing."
* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Looks to me like this prophecy-fullfullment was just plain WRONG.
LB> Since the Lord is directing our steps, why try to understand
LB> everything that happens along the way ?
Hell, if you say so. :)
--- {Mnemonic Oubliette} ---
* Origin: +1 918 455 5806 BBS/FAX, 57600bps, Broken Arrow, OK, 0 (1:170/853)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: STUART LUMGAIR
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 18 Jan 97 20:12:02
EID:88ee 2232a180
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 2e192112
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd877b
Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Stuart Lumgair:
SL> Yes, but zero does not exist as a natural number.
SL> Claiming to see zero birds in a tree is the same as
SL> seeing zero pink unicorns in the same tree. Both are
DC> So, just how many birds or unicorns are there in the
DC> tree if there are no birds or unicorns in that tree?
There are none. None is not a number. Once you pre-suppose that there must
be
some nuber of creatures in the tree, you
get to create the number zero in order to mathematically
represent none. Zero is merely a mathematical repressentation of nothingness,
void, et cetera.
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
--- timEd-B9
* Origin: Lost Cause BBS (604) 854-1869 (1:153/556)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: STUART LUMGAIR
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 18 Jan 97 20:16:50
EID:a43b 2232a200
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 2e192114
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21347758
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to STUART LUMGAIR:
DC> Without zero, negative numbers do not fit in with the
DC> positive intergers.
SL> Exactly. Negative numbers do not exist in nature.
And when did we start mixing negative numbers
and integers. Negative integers may not fit in
the Whole Number set.
RC> Neither do positive numbers, if you are going to be picky
RC> about it (and please do be picky, as that's the best way to
RC> do math).
Please explain how positive numbers do not exist.
I don't think I ever made it to that level of
mathematics. I am sure it exists, I just never
got that far.
SL> They are both intelectual constructions.
RC> That comment applies equally to every number without
RC> exception. All of the integers are abstractions which
RC> describe the common property of cardinality.
Not true, some numbers are more equal than others .
At a much higher level of conceptualization this does
turn out to be true. I am merely playing with grade 4
mathematic sets. At the earliest levels of the concept
of numbers, zero did not exist, nor did negitive numbers,
fractions, and all that other fun stuff :) Later
conceptionaliztions do not invalidate the earlier
ones, they merely add to our methods of working with
numbers.
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
--- timEd-B9
* Origin: Lost Cause BBS (604) 854-1869 (1:153/556)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: ED MILLS
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:39:34
EID:6a55 22334ce0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 5e2e246d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cf15c0
16 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Martin Goldberg to Ed Mills:
MG> MG>> DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson
MG> MG>> DR>> very ugly.
MG> MG>> You die.
EM> Make that two corpses. Yuck! But, then again, I like
EM> Channing, so I got no room to talk. :)
MG> I'd rather screw a dead dog.
MG> My father was always in love with Carol Channing (in her salad days).
MG> I have no idea why.
The "Stockard" got edited out, for some reason. Not Carol.
Now I have to go puke again.
Did you see "Kingpin?" There's a funny scene where Harrelson
hugs porcelain after screwing his hideous landlady for the rent.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: ED MILLS
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: idle
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:43:40
EID:8713 22334d60
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 30abcd9a
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 cbdd0e2e
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marilyn Burge to Ed Mills:
EM> O god of atheism, I beseech thee:
EM> Send more paramedics!
EM> edweird
MB> You could have solved the problem by getting saved while you were
MB> gone, ya know.
But I am of insufficient economic means to obtain the prerequisite
lobotomy, and I never ride motorcycles without a helmet.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: ED MILLS
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:44:54
EID:a51e 22339580
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2c548152
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 0f23203e
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jim Staal to Domino:
JS> much more meaningful and true than the mere physical. Here is my
JS> proof:
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
The occult belief systems of other cultures also have their mystical
books of purported history, printed on official-looking crinkly
parchment. Undoubtedly they all have paragraphs like the above,
advising the reader that the contents are "God-breathed."
You call this "proof" because your feelings tell you it is so after
having read it. Millions of subscribers to other cults feel the same
way about their superstitions.
"It's in a book, it makes me feel good because it's authoritarian and
sternly compelling, (see also: rebuke, correcting, cat-o-nine tails,
rubber bondage fetishism, etc.) and it fits my perceptions of the
universe, so it must be true."
Reasoning like that being commonplace, I marvel daily at the fact we
haven't managed to succeed at self-eradication much more quickly
than at the rate of our present attempts.
JS> And as the Holy Spirit confirms it to my heart, I need no further
JS> 'evidence'.
Hey! How come there's no law against intellectual suicide, but it's
still illegal to do it with a vacuum cleaner hose and a Buick? :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 17:52:40
EID:5e85 22338e80
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5e127
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a05d2
CJ> Semmelweis. Just like the med students of Vienna were
CJ> doing Ob/Gyn immediately after doing their dissections, one
CJ> could suppose Martin's priests might be doing their
CJ> baptizism after chrisming the dead.
Ignaz Phillip Semmelwiess was born in Pesth, Hungary. He was ridiculed
for his
stance on germ theory in Vienna and later in Germany. He was dubbed "The
Pesth
Fool".
By the time everyone found out that he was right, it was being said that
the
Pestch Fool was a german.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 19 Jan 97 17:55:04
EID:7b08 22338ee0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5e777
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a0649
CJ> There's still a merry controvery over the geographical
CJ> origins of syphilus. Even if one assumes it were "New World" in
CJ> origin, the proportion killed was rather less than that in the
CJ> "New World" by smallpox, much less other diseases. [Of course,
CJ> smallpox was helped along by Puritan blankets.]
Syphilis was unheard of until the men on Columbus' ships returned fromt
he New
Wrold with it. In that day, it was a childhood disease of congenital nature
caused by the forebearer of the present day veneral organism Treponema
pallidum. It was probably the basis of autoimmune disfiguration much like
the
close cousins of Syphilis, Yaws and Pinta. Also caused by spirochetes these
are third world diseases that are likely more inline with what syphilis
originally was.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|To: PATRIOT
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:05:52
EID:7710 223390a0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5fc90
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e14c2c
P> But no, He shall be coming, and very soon.. But even if it
P> wasn't true, so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what
P> if non-Christians are wrong? What do they lose? A great deal
P> more..
Pacal's Wager was shown to be fallible years ago.
What if you ARE wrong? Which other god is going to be pissed at you?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|To: LEE WOOFENDEN
|Sub: Show the relevance, Fred. Go on. Do it. We're waiting. Go ah
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:09:22
EID:b753 22339120
TID: PX/Win v2.0GU PX96-0557M
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f6053a
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32e10a71
LW> I will pay _you_ (or anyone else) $100 if you can either 1)
LW> explain how the experiment is useful in corroborating or
LW> falsifying the theory I presented earlier, or 2) explain how
LW> the experiment would be capable of demonstrating to others
LW> that my "deity construct" exists or does not exist. (These
LW> are two distinct issues.)
Your challenge is saved to disk. So that everything is PRECISELY clear,
please
state the theory you presented earlier.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 10 Jan 97 11:18:00
EID:d432 222a5a40
January 11 Saturday
LIVING SACRIFICES
Read: Romans 12:1-8
Present your bodies a living
sacrifice....Do not be
conformed to this world,
but be transformed.
-Romans 12:1-2
About 45 years ago I became acquainted with Angus and
Emma Brower, pioneer missionaries in Africa. When I saw
their slide presentation and talked with them, I thought
of them as people who had truly placed their bodies on
the altar for God.
While we admire the selfless devotion of such people,
let's not forget that the words of Romans 12:1-2 are
addressed to all of us.
The dedication of ourselves to serving God begins with
a decisive commitment. But just as keeping the vows
spoken in a wedding ceremony requires continual
reminders and recommitment, so dedicating ourselves to
the Lord involves a moment-by-moment awareness of the
pledge we made.
These reminders are necessary because the world-system
relentlessly appeals to our inherent selfishness and
pride. Through an attitude of continual submission to
God, however, our hearts and lives will be transformed
by God's power. And we will then know, with an
assurance that comes from the Holy Spirit, that God's
ways are "good and acceptable and perfect" (v.2). This
enables us to live confidently, joyously, and
sacrificially.
Are you a living sacrifice?
-Herbert Vander Lugt
All for Jesus, all for Jesus!
All my being's ransomed powers;
All my thoughts and words and doings,
All my days and all my hours. -James
TO LIVE FOR CHRIST, WE MUST DIE TO SELF.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:22:00
EID:d432 222b5ac0
January 12 Sunday
HUMAN LIKE US
Read: Hebrews 2:14-18
In all things He had to be
made like His brethren.
-Hebrews 2:17
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to be
someone else? Nearly 40 years ago, John Howard Griffin
darkened his skin color and experienced a life in a
predominantly white society. In his fascinating book
Black Like Me, Griffin describes his travels in the
United States, and he tells about the sad discrimination
and prejudice he faced.
The Son of God did far more than change His
appearance. He laid aside His glory and took on our
humanity. He lived on this earth as a man who was
despised and rejected (Isa. 53; Phil. 2:5-8). Because
of His love for us, He entered into our sorrow, and He
came to know by personal experience the feelings we
humans have.
The writer to the Hebrews said that because Jesus
lived as a man and died for our sins, He is our merciful
and faithful High Priest (Heb. 2:14,17). Because He
became one of us and knows what it is like to be
tempted, He is able to help us when we are tempted
(v.18). We can pray in His name with boldness
(4:15-16), telling Him in complete honesty our
struggles, fears, defeats, needs - even our questionings
and doubts. That's why, as we remember all He endured
for us as the Son of God from glory, we love Him and
strive to please Him.
Vernon C. Grounds
Once from the realms of infinite glory,
Down to the depths of our ruin and loss,
Jesus came, seeking - oh, love's sweet story -
Came to the manger, the shame, and the cross. -Strickland
THE SON OF GOD BECAME ONE OF US
THAT WE MIGHT BECOME ONE WITH HIM.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 12 Jan 97 11:42:00
EID:d432 222c5d40
January 13 Monday
RANDOM ACTS
Read: Galatians 6:1-10
As we have opportunity, let us
do good to all, especially to
those who are of the household
of faith. -Galatians 6:10
Some time ago I saw a bumper sticker with these
unusual words:
ŚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄæ
³ COMMIT RANDOM ACTS OF KINDNESS ³
³ AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY. ³
ĄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŁ
It sounds a bit reckless to engage in "random" and
"senseless" acts. But as I mentally dismantled that
strange combination of words, I realized that its
various parts are surprisingly compatible with the
apostle Paul's admonition in Galatians 6:10.
God's spirit works in our hearts to make us
instruments of blessing to those in need, and He may
prompt us to do something that appears to others as
random and impractical. He puts an opportunity to do
good in our path and says to us, "Grasp it! Just do
what I want you to do - purely out of love for Me."
Whether it's a smile to a stranger, an unexpected gift
of money to the poor, a helping hand, a word of
encouragement or witness, do it for Jesus' sake with no
strings attached. God weaves "random" and "senseless"
responses into the tapestry of events in needy people's
lives so that His Spirit can reach them. Your kindness
can help to convince them that God loves them and that
Christ died for them. Don't hesitate to "do good to
all" (Gal. 6:10). You can attract people to the beauty
of the Savior.
-Dennis J. De Haan
Do a deed of simple kindness,
Though its end you may not see;
It may reach, like widening ripples
Down a long eternity. -Anon.
A LITTLE KINDNESS CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97 11:34:00
EID:d432 222d5c40
January 14 Tuesday
TRY OUT MY TIGER
Read: 1 Corinthians 1:17-29
To us who are being saved
it is the power of God.
-1 Corinthians 1:18
There's a Chinese tale about a young man who captured
a tiger cub, brought it home, and raised it in a cage.
When it was full grown, the man loved to brag about how
ferocious and powerful it was. "That tiger isn't wild
anymore," scoffed his friends. " He's as tame as an old
house cat." This went on until a wise old man overheard
them and said, "There's only one way to know whether
this tiger is ferocious or not. Open the cage! The
young man smiled, placed his hand on the latch, and
challenged his friends, "Want to try out my tiger?"
Many people view the gospel of Jesus Christ as a tame
and powerless fantasy. Yet in 1 Corinthians 1:18 the
apostle Paul called it, "the power of God." He used the
Greek dunamis, which is the root for our word dynamite.
Paul said that to an unbeliever the gospel is
foolishness, but anyone who is willing to believe it
will experience the "dynamite" of God. A tiger's
strength, of course, is destructive and can bring death,
but the power of the gospel always leads to life and
freedom. It destroys guilt and breaks the stranglehold
of sinful habits.
If we have experienced this power, let's challenge
others to "try out our tiger."
-Joanie E. Yoder
Stir me now, I long to know You,
Know the fullness of Your power;
Help me, Lord, to yield completely
Day by day and hour by hour. -Hallan
TO EXPERIENCE GOD'S POWER,
WE MUST FIRST ADMIT THAT WE ARE WEAK.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Becke the Slave
|Date: 14 Jan 97 11:53:00
EID:e80c 222e5ea0
BB>George, the slavery is completely voluntary. You can escape your mythical
BB>beliefs at any point--no one is holding a gun to your head. There are
some o
BB>us who choose to be a slave to none.
Hahahahahahahaha, that's a good one. A slave to none! Hahahahaha You
are so apparently a slave to Satan that even a casual observer can see
it. You push his agenda at every opportunity.
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
š Geo š
gmooth@sprynet.com
* 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 14 Jan 97 11:55:00
EID:2443 222e5ee0
GM> There you go again - being a mental slave to Satan. When will you
GM> choose to be free and not a slave?
BB>You said in a prior message that you were a slave to God. Now you speak
of
BB>freedom. Which is it, Moothy?
You'd have to show me the message that you are twisting to make me
believe I said I was a slave.
BTW, what is the answer to my question. Whne will you choose to be
free and not a slave to satan?
š Geo š
gmooth@sprynet.com
* 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 14 Jan 97 11:58:00
EID:d432 222e5f40
January 15 Wednesday
PARADOX
Read: Luke 18:9-14
Everyone who exalts himself will
be humbled, and he who humbles
himself will be exalted.
-Luke 18:14
Luke 18 contains a startling paradox. The man who
admitted he was wrong was declared right, while the one
who claimed to be right was condemned as wrong
(vv.9-14).
Jesus told this parable of the tax collector and the
Pharisee to teach the true way of salvation to those
"who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and
despised others" (v.9). He wanted them to see that they
had a false righteousness like the Pharisee, who thanked
God that he was "not like other men" (v.11).
What they needed was the attitude of the tax
collector, who saw himself as a sinner. He realized
that he had to rely solely on God's mercy and grace.
Jesus said of him, "This man went down to his house
justified rather than the other" (v.14).
Perhaps you've never considered this seeming paradox -
how you as a sinner can be justified through faith. If
you are still trying to save yourself, you stand
condemned. But as soon as you admit that you are
hopelessly lost and you place your trust in Christ, God
will forgive you and declare you righteous (Rom.
10:13). It is through faith alone that anyone can be
justified in the sight of God (Rom. 3:28; Eph. 2:8-10).
Think about the parable Jesus told. Are you like the
Pharisee or the tax collector?
-Richard W. De Haan
Just as I am, without one plea
But that Thy blood was shed for me,
And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee,
O Lamb of God, I come! I come! -Elliott
WE ARE SAVED BY GOD'S MERCY, NOT BY OUR MERIT.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 15 Jan 97 11:20:00
EID:574e 222f5a80
RS> Isn't that mental enslavery, Moothy?
GM> We are all in mental salavery.
RC>All those who choose the mental slavery of religious dogmatism, yes.
RC>So your masters have finally allowed you to speak! How intriguing.
ALL!! Are under mental slavery. Your master is satan. Only satan
wants Christianity to be attacked - and you are doing just what he
wants you to do. If you weren't a slave to satan you wouldn't care
one way or the other.
GM> You just have to choose who you want to be the slave of.
RC>Not likely.
Another lie. Satan is full of lies.
š Geo š
gmooth@sprynet.com
* 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Jan 97 11:20:00
EID:d432 222f5a80
January 16 Thursday
HE'LL MAKE IT WORK
Read: Exodus 3:1-12
[God] said, "I will certainly
be with you." -Exodus 3:12
Many people who have stood on the threshold of
greatness have caught a glimpse of the enormous
challenges ahead and backed away. We see it in election
years when candidates for President of the United
States, contemplate the immensity of the job ahead and
decide not to run.
On a smaller scale, we can all find ourselves so
overwhelmed with a challenge we are asked to do for the
Lord that we look harder for excuses than for ways to
make it work.
Look at Moses at the burning bush. We can understand
why he was so hesitant to accept God's call for him to
lead the people of Israel. Like him, we have our
self-doubts and limitations. He was worried about the
unbelief of the people; similarly, we may be concerned
that people won't respond properly to our efforts. He
was worried that his lack of eloquence would disqualify
him; likewise, we often find our tongue getting tied
while trying to deliver God's message.
The Lord did not let Moses off the hook. Instead, God
gave him a sign to persuade the people to believe him,
and He promised to guide his faltering tongue. God's
people will never be left without the resources they
need. When He asks you to do something, He will always
send a provision. He did it for Moses; He'll do it for
you.
-J. David Branon
If you have some work to do,
Start this very hour;
You supply the willingness,
God supplies the power. -Anon.
GOD'S RESOURCES ARE ALWAYS EQUAL TO
HIS REQUIREMENTS.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 16 Jan 97 11:48:00
EID:d432 22305e00
January 17 Friday
WILLING TO CHANGE
Read: Isaiah 58
If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the
land. -Isaiah 1:19
A recent news feature chronicled the growing search
for stress relief through spas, massage, pills, and
exercise tapes. The craving to ease tension has spawned
an entire industry, including walk-in backrub stores in
shopping malls across the country. The report ended by
saying, "Although people will pay to fix their stress,
they are not about to change the lifestyle that is
causing it."
No matter what the problem, our initial response is
to treat the symptoms rather than the cause.
During the days of Isaiah, God's people were not
experiencing the Lord's blessing. They went through the
motions of worship and couldn't understand why God
wasn't noticing their religious efforts (Isa. 58:3).
But while they were fasting, they were also exploiting
their workers and fighting among themselves (vv.3-4).
Isaiah condemned their hypocrisy and told them they
needed to change. If they would free the oppressed,
share with the hungry, house the homeless, and clothe
the naked, God would bless them with healing, answered
prayer, guidance, strength, and joy.
Religious activity is no substitute for an obedient
heart. With God's help - and a willingness to change -
we can eliminate the root problems, not just the
symptoms.
-David C. McCasland
The Christian life is not confined
To church one day a week;
God wants us to obey His Word,
Each day His will to seek. -Sper.
RELIGIOUS ACTIVITY IS NO SUBSTITUTE
FOR AN OBEDIENT HEART.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 01 Mar 97 09:36:46
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1e08ec90
PID: FM 2.02
Why are you allowing this spamming to continue?
-=-
* Forwarded from "HolySmoke!"
* Originally by George Mooth
* Originally to All
* Originally dated 18 Jan 1997, 11:31
January 18 Saturday
HOW HEALTHY IS YOUR HEART?
Read: Hebrews 10:11-22
Let us draw near..., having our
hearts sprinkled from an evil
conscience. -Hebrews 10:32
Has a doctor ever allowed you to use his stethoscope
and listen to your own heart? It's a rather strange
experience to hear the steady rhythms of that organ which
started to function even before you were born and will
continue beating until you die.
When Sue Monk Kidd was a nurse in a hospital pediatric
ward, she often let her young patients listen to their
own hearts. One day as she carefully positioned the
stethoscope for a 4-year-old named David, she said to
him, "Listen. What do you suppose that is?" He
tightened his eyebrows in deep thought and with a bright
smile asked, "Is that Jesus knocking?"
Forget physiology and let David be your teacher. From
the standpoint of spiritual health and eternal destiny,
he was right. Jesus Christ, the crucified Savior and
the risen Lord of glory, is indeed knocking at the door
of every human heart. Our heart is the very core of our
being, the controlling center of decision and choice
(Rev. 3:20).
Have you gladly invited Him to become your personal
Savior, forgiving your sins and cleansing your heart?
(Jn. 1:1-16; Heb. 10:22). Have you invited Him into
your life to rule as Lord, guiding your decisions and
actions?
He's knocking, waiting to come in.
Vernon C. Grounds
Take me as I am, Lord,
And make me all Your own;
Make my heart Your palace
And Your royal throne. -Anon.
A HEALTHY HEART BEATS WITH LOVE FOR JESUS.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1997 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
ž 1st 2.00 #1855 ž God's baud rate is ģ.
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank (1:218/890)
|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:26:50
EID:bc55 22336340
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 da8e2512
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32e069e5
On (16 Jan 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Sue Alexander <=-
JS> When interpreted by itself and the Holy Spirit, scripture remains
JS> pure and true to itself. It is, after all, the complete _written_
JS> manifestation of God.
SA> So which version is the "true" version, Jim?
JS> Why the KJV/NIV parallel, of course. :)
SA> So why did it take so long (and so many failed attempts) to get
SA> to the "true" version? Hmmmmmmm....
God does His thing in His time. (Rom 5:6 NIV) You see, at just the
right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
JS> That is where the prayer part comes in.
SA> If prayer guides you in your choice, why do Christians insist on
SA> pressing their prayer-guided choice on others (whose prayer-given
SA> choice may be different)?
To give another information is not necessarily 'pressing' their choice
on others.
... ... My modem isn't slow, its Baudily Challenged.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 228/45 500 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:29:08
EID:eb7d 223363a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 53cf1b14
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32e069e8
On (16 Jan 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> No, Wild said you were not married before. (that he knew of no
JS> pagan divorced people) I knew you were married before.
SA> That is your interpretation of what you recall him saying, but
SA> that is not the argument at hand.
SA> You claimed at the time that you didn't know that Gwen had been
SA> married before. I posted the messages recently, and I know you saw
SA> them (as you responded to one).
The posts you reposted did not show me to not have known.
... "Mommy! I don't want to visit Grandma." "Shutup and keep digging."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 228/45 500 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:30:06
EID:9386 223363c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 363e26c0
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cfe39c
On (16 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> Re: Your discussion of the "gleeps".
MG> If you cna find one, get the 1996 Far Side Calendar by Jim Larsen (the
MG> one that you pull off each successive day) and look at July 8.
OK, I'll see if someone locally has one.
...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 228/45 500 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:32:14
EID:6899 22336400
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 66110714
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e0563b
On (18 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Fredric Rice...
FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
DC> of the water.
Which current message might that be?
... For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 6:7)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 228/45 500 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific Theories.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:17:00
EID:cbc1 2233aa20
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e2d84b2
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Laurie.
LA> It is not
LA> possibly to "FALSIFY" something that has been declared to be
LA> a FACT is it?
RM> Find that specimen, and you will have falsified it.
LA> Get real Rick. There have been plenty found!
If you can show us an authentic find of a modern human fossil that is
legitimately dated in excess of a couple of million years old, you will
have sucessfully falsified the current view of human evolution. But
you should be very careful here, because you will also have sucessfully
falsified your own theory that man was created 6,000 years ago.
LA> Like I said there have been plenty found and that is how
LA> we know the evolutionists say about it.
LA> The closest that I have seen an evolutionist come to
LA> admitting something that they don't WANT to be true is Sir
LA> Arthur Keith. In the 1925 edition of his book, "Antiquity of
LA> Man", he gives the histories of several fossil of early HOMO
LA> SAPIENS, although they do not appear in his later works. He
LA> says;
1925? Wow!
LA> "The story of the Calaveras skull, although grown
LA> stale. . . cannot be passed over. It is the 'bogey'
LA> which haunts the student of early man -- . . . taxing
LA> the powers of belief of every expert almost to
LA> breaking point. . .Indeed were such discoveries in
LA> accordance with our expectations, if they were in
LA> harmony with the theories we have found regarding the
LA> date of man's evolution, no one would ever dream of
LA> doubting them, much less of rejecting then." (p. 471
LA> & 473)
Interesting. No data at all. No description of the skull, of the
circumstances under which it was found, of the character of those who
"discovered" it. All you have quoted us is OPINION, once again. What are
the FACTS, Laurie?
The Calaveras skull was a hoax. A relatively recent skull that some
California miners used to play a prank on some scientist.
Jim Foley says:
Calaveras Man: this was a modern skull discovered in 1866 in
California in Pliocene deposits (2 to 5 million years old). A few
scientists did believe it genuine, but it was always widely
considered to be a hoax. Personal testimonies and geological evidence
indicate that it is probably a modern Indian found in nearby
limestone caves, and that it was planted as a practical joke by
miners. Tests have shown it to be recent, probably less than 1000
years old. (Dexter, 1986; Taylor et al.1992; Conrad, 1982)
May I suggest some reading for you?
Boutwell, J. M., 1911, The Calaveras Skull. in W. Lindgrens, The Tertiary
Gravels of the Sierra Nevada of California. U.S. Geological Survey
Professional Paper no. 73, pp. 54-55.
Jackson, J. H., 1941, Anyone's Gold, the Story of California Mining Towns.
D-Apppleton-Century, New York.
Dexter, R. W., 1986, Historical aspects of the Calaveras skull
controversy. American Antiquity. vol. 51, no. 2, pp. 365-369.
Rather, L., 1980, Men Will Be Boys: the Story of E. Clampus Vitus. Rather
Press, Oakland.
Taylor, R. E., Louis A. Payen and Peter J. Slota, Jr., 1992, The age of
the Calaveras skull: dating the "Piltdown man" of the New World. American
Antiquity. vol. 57, pp. 261- 269.
Boutwell should be especially interesting for you. During his
investigation he found that the local people all knew it was a hoax. In
fact, one of the main participants in the discovery admitted to him that
it was a hoax.
Now, let's compare how Creationists and REAL scientists handle hoaxes,
shall we? The Calaveras skull was exposed as a hoax over 80 years ago.
The Piltdown "fossil" was exposed as a hoax 40 years or so ago. Exercise
for the student: Go out and try to find a current biology text or paper
that uses the Piltdown "fossil" as evidence for evolution (you will be
unable to find such a text). Go out and try to find a Creationist text
that uses the Calaveras hoax as evidence against evolution (yopu need
look no farther than Laurie's post today to me).
You Creationists don't come off very well in the comparison, do you?
LA> "As the student of prehistoric man reads and
LA> studies the records of the 'Castenodolo' find, a
LA> feeling of incredulity rises within him. He cannot
LA> reject the discovery as false without doing injury to
LA> his sense of truth, and he cannot accept it without
LA> shattering his accepted beliefs. It is clear that we
LA> cannot pass Castenodolo by in silence: all modern
LA> problems relating to the origin and antiquity of
LA> modern man focus themselves round it." (p. 334)
Again, no data. No description of the Castenodolo find. No description
of the circumstances around it. No description of the aspects of it that
this author finds difficult to explain. Only his OPINION that it causes
feelings of incredulity in him. What are the FACTS, Laurie?
The Castenodolo find has also been shown to be not authentic. An official
report on these skeletons in 1899 found that all the fossils from the
deposit were impregnated with salt, EXCEPT the human ones (did Gish
not bother to tell you that little fact?). Obviously, they were recent
burials (humans have been known to bury their dead some times, you know).
Collagen tests in 1965 and radiocarbon tests in 1969 confirmed this.
So why do you bother to bring up these "finds"? One is a known fraud, the
other a recent burial, yet you try to misrepresent them. Is that the best
you can do? Can't find a real specimen, so you have to pretend that these
ones are authentic?
Who did you think you were going to fool?
LA> It is obvious that your indoctrination via the media
LA> and/or college has been complete to a point where you are
LA> even arrogant and discourteous in spite of your ignorance.
You are projecting again.
Take care.
... Every one is the son of his own works. - Cervantes
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 343/1 600 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:18:00
EID:40df 2233aa40
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e2d84c2
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Laurie.
LA> Well have a look at the following, sent to me by a BBS
LA> 'friend'. It comes from a West Australian Newspaper. But I
LA> understand that you will find something the same in SCIENCE
LA> Vol. 270, 24 November 1995 (p. 1297)
Did you read this before youposted it? We are discussing whether Lucy
walked upright (not whether Lucy was male or female, as if that matters).
I'm not going to waste bandwidth by repeating the entire article. Just
one part of it.
LA> The left side of the pelvis and part of the sacroiliac, which anchors
LA> the spinal column, was enough to tell anatomists that Lucy was no
LA> recent fugitive from the rainforests of east Africa, which were in
LA> retreat as the climate cooled and became drier.
LA> The legs were short in proportion to the trunk and the pelvis was
LA> relatively narrow. The femurs-the major bones in the top of the
LA> legs- projected almost straight down from their pelvic sockets,
LA> rather than angling in under the body's centre of gravity.
LA> But they didn't splay outwards, in the manner of a chimpanzee or
LA> gorilla.
LA> The evidence was clear-Lucy-had walked upright. "Waddled" may be
LA> closer to the mark - the pelvic anatomy was not designed for the
LA> curving hips and fluid stride of latter- day great-granddaughters on
a
LA> Paris catwalk.
In your last post you tried and failed to come up with a reference that
said Lucy did NOT walk upright. Then you immediately post a reference
that clearly says she DID walk upright.
You've shot yourself in the foot so many times now that it's safe to
assume that YOU are no longer capable of walking upright, though.
I think I can safely declare myself the winner on this particular point.
Or at least, I can safely declare that you are a loser.
Take care.
... Nature never says one thing, Wisdom another. - Juvenal
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 343/1 600 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:01:00
EID:e384 22328820
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> (*chuckle*) No such luck. Gillian Andersen is one of my 'most
JB> favored' women --I think she's a knockout, and she doesn't _look_ as
JB> fat on a talk show as she does on 'the X Files.'
My son has a picture of her as wallpaper under Win95, lounging
on a bed in a low-cut negligee. It's a wonder he ever runs any
programs.
... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:08:00
EID:03a5 22328900
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> There goes your "free will", Al.
AS> One chooses to be married or not married. Does it negate one's free
AS> will?
You better believe it! Just ask your wife if you can date ouher
women and see how free your will is.
RH> Solved the split brain dilemma yet?
AS> Nope. As far as I can tell, it's inarguable. So a soul does not use
a
AS> brain, although it's possible that a soul is imprinted with the
AS> brain's store...(i.e., the thoughts originate with the brain, not the
AS> soul.)
Thank you. Now, what am "I"? Am I not my thoughts, my feelings, my
personality, in short, my brain activity? And if that dies, am I not
dead?
So what is the point of an hypothetical (and unevidenced) soul?
Why should "I" care what happens to it?
... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: AL'S DELIBERATE DELUS
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:26:00
EID:dc29 22328b40
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Fredric Rice <=-
AS> One bright moment, between darknesses, in your worldview.
AS> And then no one will remember you were. Or had been. Or that "man"
AS> was, or had been. All your striving, all man's ingenuity, will
AS> inevitably collapse and rust and blow away...and the universe will not
AS> care, nor remember.
See? I -knew- you understood the truth. Why do you keep running from
it? Why do you think you are worth remembering? Hubris, perhaps?
AS> with Jim Staal or with any other believer. Better than putting oneself
AS> on a throne of one's own ignorance, and regard oneself as the crown
of
AS> creation and rationality. Maybe if you say it often enough, and loudly
AS> enough, you may believe it.
That's not the atheist position, Al. You know better than that.
... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: FREEDOM AND LIFE
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:39:00
EID:c388 22334ce0
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Never mind Heisenburg; he doesn't count here.
ML> Well, *maybe* he does and *maybe* he doesn't...
Yes, I know. It's hard to be certain...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 15 Jan 97 14:03:00
EID:b0ed 222f7060
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e22719
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast #holysmoke at All .. and all hell
broke loose.
DL> I seem to be having some problems getting onto IRC.
DL> I understand that #holysmoke has been moved to neto.ca.us.another.net
DL> What would be the the port to use?
DL> Eveytime I try to connect I get
DL> Ping987 or Ping23897 or any other type of variation.
DL> Suggestions?
Type /raw pong (number) when you get that.
Either that, or get a later version of mIRC (4.7 is apparently the
latest, but I haven't found it yet.)
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Can't wait for them 100Gb, 10ns drives!
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christanic myths say Goat Worship okay!
|Date: 17 Jan 97 18:51:00
EID:3a93 22319660
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e2271a
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Fredric Rice cast Christanic myths say Goat Worship
okay! at Bill Forseth .. and all hell broke loose.
bf> 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any
bf> likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the
bf> earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
FR> What's ironic is that this "commandment" is meaningless since there
is
FR> no "heaven" and thus nothing that can exist in it. It simply states
FR> that one can't worship fish, worms, gophers, or anything else that
FR> lives in the ground or the water. It allows Goats to be worshipped,
FR> however.
Actually, is says "or any likeness of any thing", which means
pictures and paintings in general must be a no-no. While I'm aware
that synagogues tend not to have anything but abstract
ornamentation, it 1) calls into question the wisdom of the Catholic
church having its icons and statues and 2) indicates that Christians
shouldn't have paintings or photographs, either (at least of
earthworms and fish, anyway.)
I wonder when the really literal types will start wanting to ban all
graphic representations, period? That might be good for amusement
value.
FR> Now watch fundies who want to pretend their mythologies are 100%
FR> inerrant and literal spread shit all over themselves trying to
FR> "interpret" the problem of Goat Worship away.
They'll proably pull the golden calf out of their butts.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Covenant People
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:01:02
EID:1d4b 22319820
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e2271b
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Steve Quarrella cast Covenant People at Jesse Jones
.. and all hell broke loose.
JJ> You do not keep kosher? Shame on you, Martin Goldberg, for
JJ> forsaking your Jewish heritage!
SQ> Be happy that I've forsaken parts of my Sicilian heritage, else you
SQ> might wake up with a horse's head in your bed. Or worse. :)
SQ> What's his Jewish heritage to you? You know his kids are learning
SQ> Hebrew?
Hey, I can affirm my Scottish heritage by playing bagpipes ..
outside his window .. at 3 am.
Of course, I don't know HOW to play the bagpipes, but when did that
matter?
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: ENOCPENT.TXT
|Date: 18 Jan 97 06:24:02
EID:f3f3 22323300
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e2271c
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Richard Smith cast ENOCPENT.TXT at Ed Mills .. and
all hell broke loose.
EM> All you can do is keep him comfortable and
EM> hydrated. It's not fatal, but it lies dormant for
EM> life, flaring up whenever some entertainment genius
EM> decides to touch off another asinine dance craze.
EM> Kind of like herpes simplex, except instead of `cold sores'
EM> you get the insatiable urge to make everyone around
EM> you blow chow.
RS> Damn, you're right. Now that I think about it, I know people
RS> who were first infected with this during the disco decade . .
RS> . . .
RS> Shit! I got laid a lot during that period! Unprotected sex!
RS> I suppose there aren't any self tests, are there?
Sure there is.
Buy one of those awful "dance music" compilations they advertise on
TV, turn it on, and see if you get the uncontrollable urge to prance
around the room in your underwear like an elephant in musth.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "We shall overcome" - Sung at those who sung it 20 years ago
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 18 Jan 97 06:34:04
EID:f03a 22323440
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e2271d
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Mimi Milstein cast False Christian Scum at David
Worrell .. and all hell broke loose.
DW>> Eros is the only form of love you have for your wife/girlfriend?
RB> Eros is not just sexual.
MM> You are mistaken, which can be deduced from the old Greek verbs:
MM> erotao = to feel sexual love
MM> phillio = to feel fondness
Even modern Greek usage distinguishes the two types of love:
Eros - sexual desire (erotas, other forms)
Agape - used as a more "pure" form of the term "love"; a Greek
suitor will say s'agapo if he doesn't get slapped, rather than using
the other word above.
While using the two terms can both mean "I love you" (I think the
first scans grammatically as s'eroto, but I'm not sure; I've never
seen or heard it used, and it's been a while since I've dragged up
what I knew of Greek grammar), using the first word would be akin to
saying "I love your body" or "I want to have sex with you."
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Crime doesn't pay? Does that mean my job is a crime?
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Paul Halyung
|To: All
|Sub: Eckankar - ???
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:05:00
EID:6a2e 223368a0
MSGID: 1:246/15@fidonet 098d070d
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
TID: GE 1.11+
What is Eckankar?
I had a convo with a rather wierd woman yesterday who talked about "Light
and Sound" and reincarnations, and karma - the biggest thing was that MURDER
was a positive thing, in that you expanded your circle of experiences in
THIS LIFE and were therefore wiser in the next.
Egads! Is this another cult? I have never heard of these crispy critters
before.
Paul F. Halyung
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:12:46
EID:0c13 2233a180
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8973e34d
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e25cc8
On (19 Jan 97) Brian Shreve babbled to Marilyn Burge...
BS> You spoke of choice in abortion issues, you're being
BS> pro-choice. Adding to that, you say you are against abortion.
BS> Oxymoron? Possibly, in the black and white sense you spoke of
BS> of others. But wouldn't you have to admit it does create
BS> confusion? One is either for or against, but if we listen to
BS> you, (and I as well) we have a third addition...that being
BS> for _choice_. Choice of what, it's wrong, or it's right? Nice
BS> way to cloud / confuse the issues.
It's not an oxymoron at all. I think that in a truly free society,
people have the right to be wrong. Without the freedom to be
wrong, there is no freedom at all.
BS> Are you a church goer, or a christian, or practice prayer in
BS> your life?
I'm a freethinker and a hard-core realist. I do not see either
supernatural beings or prayer to same as being in any way reality-
based.
... Hear about the baby born with both sexes? It had a vagina and a brain!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Denyse Heard
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:18:54
EID:4a0a 2233a240
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 171fa7fa
REPLY: 1:381/95 e52f24f0
On (18 Jan 97) Denyse Heard babbled to John Brawley...
DH> If I may jump in on this conversation? :)
JB> If the first way above is used, then the party's Dec. 31st, 1999. If
JB> the _second_ way is used, it's Dec. 31st, 2000.
JB> running about 50/50 for either way.
DH> I beg to differ on a couple of points raised inthis discussing.
DH> 1. The year 1 is not theoretically the year HE died, it was the year
DH> he was born.
DH> an d
DH> 2 . According o the most accurate research I have been able to find,
DH> He was b orn Sept. 12, 3 B.C.. That would make this year the end
of
DH> the
DH> mi lennium.
DH> I have a bit of evidence, mostly direct from the Bible, but a lot was
DH> gleaned through other hisorical sources. Anyone interested?
DH> See ya!
DH> Amadeo
I heard a sermon on the Saturday before Christmas where the
preacher claimed he was born probably around March 21 or so,
according to your same scriptures. And, he placed the year
at around 4 BC. Now, who are we to believe, you, or a preacher?
... If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:21:56
EID:bcec 2233a2a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8c7e44f0
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 171fa7fa
On (19 Jan 97) Marilyn Burge babbled to Denyse Heard...
MB> On (18 Jan 97) Denyse Heard babbled to John Brawley...
DH> If I may jump in on this conversation? :)
JB> If the first way above is used, then the party's Dec. 31st, 1999. If
JB> the _second_ way is used, it's Dec. 31st, 2000.
JB> running about 50/50 for either way.
DH> I beg to differ on a couple of points raised inthis discussing.
DH> 1. The year 1 is not theoretically the year HE died, it was the year
DH> he was born.
DH> an d
DH> 2 . According o the most accurate research I have been able to find,
DH> He was b orn Sept. 12, 3 B.C.. That would make this year the end
of
DH> the
DH> mi lennium.
DH> I have a bit of evidence, mostly direct from the Bible, but a lot was
DH> gleaned through other hisorical sources. Anyone interested?
DH> See ya!
DH> Amadeo
MB> I heard a sermon on the Saturday before Christmas where the
MB> preacher claimed he was born probably around March 21 or so,
MB> according to your same scriptures. And, he placed the year
MB> at around 4 BC. Now, who are we to believe, you, or a preacher?
MB> ... If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
MB> --- PPoint 2.00
MB> * Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
... 666.1 - Bugfix of the beast.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: better?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:22:28
EID:ce17 2233a2c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 bc74a77a
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e18490
On (18 Jan 97) Jan deBoer babbled to ROBERT CURRY...
Jd> On 17 Jan 97 15:30:14 ROBERT CURRY wrote to LEE WOOFENDEN...
LW> What I find farfetched is that those processes themselves
LW> would exist without some designer.
Jd> Then, by your own rationale, you must find it farfetched that
Jd> the processes of the 'designer' would exist without another designer.
Jd> Can you say 'circular reasoning'??
Why did you address this to Robert Curry, when the initials above
clearly show it was a statement made by Lee Woofenden? Curry is
not a braindead fundy, by the furthest stretch of the imagination.
... 29A - The hex of the beast
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Patriot
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:52:24
EID:cbd2 22331e80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e1e0c8
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32dbf08f
REALNAME: Ken Young
FR> ~*~ "He'd ask me if I'd ever let anyone screw my
FR> daughter when she was
FR> that young, and I said, 'No, She's only nine
FR> years old.' He asked me
FR> if she started developing [breasts] or if she had any hair down
FR> there. I said 'Nooo...' he even asked me if
FR> pussy was real tight or
FR> not... sometimes he used the word cunt... 'I can picture my cock
FR> going in and out of a pussy like that,' he said... I didn't know
FR> what to say. I though, 'This man's got to be sick."
FR> -- Debra Murphree detailing Jimmy Swaggart's
FR> interest in her 9 year old daughter.
FR> (Penthouse magazine, July 1988)
GT> Now _there's_ Christian family values for you.
Yeah, and _there's_ a reputable source for you.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Patriot
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:17:10
EID:2904 22336a20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e26526
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b04
REALNAME: Ken Young
dr>> I also doubt that the Bible is "one of the most read" books in
dr>> history, considering the vast majority of Bible- owners have never
dr>> read it. Aesop and Shakespear probably outnumber Bible-readers
dr>> fifty-to-one.
FR> During the populating of the United States the Sears Catalog
fr> was the most widely distributed and read book.
gt> And the most useful. There was one hanging in every
gt> backhouse. Bibles might actually have been some use there.
FR> I think a possible reason why Christanics want to
FR> pretend their mythologies are the most read is because
FR> they are told that the United States was once a
FR> Christian nation -- everyone reading the mythologies.
FR> Could be.
Well, why would someone own a book that they would not read? I know many
probably don't, but I just can't understand the concept of that many people
not reading a book they all have.
Actually, according to the Supreme Court (US vs. Trinity Church) America
is indeed a Christian nation.
And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign father
of the USA, were Christians..
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Patriot
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:22:10
EID:0bab 22336ac0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e26652
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b0b
REALNAME: Ken Young
gtp> hate to shop.
FR> Isn't Walmart one of the most oppressive towards
FR> homosexuals? Er, known homosexuals, I mean. Don't
FR> they impose lie detector tests and if one refuses one doesn't get a
job?
Nope.. I know they don't give out lie detector tests, at least. Not around
here, anyway..
Besides, it isn't as if Christians are the only ones against homosexuality..
And what is so difficult about not making a point of telling everyone what
your sexual preference is?
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Patriot
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:35:52
EID:f1d3 22336c60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e26988
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd1d0d
REALNAME: Ken Young
RFsgBdX#*avygGgM$0(KLI
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:57:32
EID:291d 2233a720
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 81dafce5
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 050bc278
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jim Staal to Glen Todd:
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
GT> Blatantly self-serving, entirely unsupported, and completely
GT> irrelevant.
JS> Only in the eyes of Pagan scum.
My superstition's better than yours! Nyah, nyah nyah nyah, nyah!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:59:40
EID:b938 2233a760
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 d38b307e
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 db839d77
RS> Yes, isn't it. Every fertilised egg that does not gain uterine
RS> wall implantation, and hence is aborted, is the fault of your
RS> God.
JS> Fault of sinful man and his 'science'.
ÉĶĶĶĶĶ» ÉĶĶĶĶ» ĶĶĶĖĶĶĶ ÉĶĶĶĶĶ ŗ ÉĶ» ÉĶ» ÉĶĶĶĶĶ ÉĶĶĶĶ» ÉĶĶĶĶ»
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ĢĶĶĖĶĶ¼ ŗ ŗ ŗ ĢĶĶĶ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ĢĶĶĶ ĢĶĶĶĶŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ČĶĶ» ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ČĶ¼ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ČĶĶĶĶ¼ ČĶĶĶĶ ČĶĶĶĶ¼ ŗ
I was unaware that human reproduction was designed and implemented
by human science.
But how did we reproduce before we had scientists, then?
edweird
... Anyone who's "gonna be raptured outa here" already has been.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: High Society
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:06:16
EID:f369 2233a8c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 d71e6bc9
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2daf8272
Mon 13 Ja: another heap o' yappin' from Rick Mcfarlane to Jan deBoer:
RM> He was wrong.
RM> I think this old geezer's name was Truman. Whether his first name was
RM> Harry or not I don't recall. But he was definitely NOT a former
RM> president .
His name was, indeed, Harry Truman.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Where do they do it?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:14:22
EID:910a 2233a9c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 289a72f2
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dc17fe
14 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Fredric Rice:
-> On 11 Jan 97 07:49:02, Fredric Rice got back to Rod Swift
FR> He told the kids that there wasn't anything wrong with being raped;
FR> "Here! I'll prove it and rape you on the roof where god can watch."
DC> Can you re-up a copy of that?
DC> That has to be one of the sickest things I've ever heard. Just
DC> what, other than being protected by their church, is with these
DC> perverts? And, just why does the church protect those scumballs?
^^^^^^ ^^^^
Ah, Grasshopper, the answer is within the question.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Mustard Bath!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:34:22
EID:257a 2233ac40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 02c57874
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32da2777
Jd> On 09 Jan 97 21:14:30 Fredric Rice wrote to DAVID RICE...
dr> Three days ago I rewired the whole jesused jesus system
dr> again--- the third time. Now I am happy with it. Now it
dr> has heavy wire, crimped splices, crimped lugs, and the
dr> inline fuse. I was confused on the color scheme since it
dr> has two or three positive leads and one negative lead.
dr> Looking at the switches one sees red wires on both sides,
dr> but at the pump and batter one sees one black and one
dr> red wire.
Jd> Crimped connections, copper wire, & salt air? Oooooooooooohhh, Gawd
is
Jd> gonna love you! Greenies growing under the plastic crimps.
Jd> Corrosion, intermittent, heat, heat, smoke fire! Bad, bad.
Jd> God hates soldered connections.
Tell him to get thee quick to yon RTV store for thy mass quantities
of 100% silicone rubber sealant, and the Gawds of cuprous oxidation
and resistive rottenness shall be thence appeased.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 19 Jan 97 21:41:56
EID:7186 2233ad20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7f62553e
REPLY: 1:229/622 32dc23cd
15 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Al Schroeder:
Jd> a cacaphony of opposing and conflicting messages. Baptists must come
Jd> to church trimmed and groomed, but if sikhs clip so much as a nose
Jd> ahir or split end, they are eternally damned.
What happens if one of 'em is just innocently trying to haul out
a mature booger and takes a hair along with it? You really can't
avoid that once you turn about 40 or so.
edweird
... Hail to the Sun god! He is a fun god! Ra! Ra! Ra!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:09:16
EID:8786 2233b120
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9778a2dc
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org ca663054
14 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Norman Solomon to All:
NS> Any group/cult/belief/non-belief system is of interest, but I would
NS> prefer to hear from people who can speak from personal experience.
NS> I look forward to some great debates.
Remember the scene in `Star Wars' where the trap door in Jabba's
lair dropped out from under Luke and he found himself in a cave
with the Bantha?
You did wear your Kevlar shorts, didn't you? :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Isaiah 53:7 / Matthew 27:12
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:14:20
EID:10cb 2233b1c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 74fda6ac
Sat 18 Ja: another heap o' yappin' from Leonard Bernier to All:
LB> Since the Lord is directing our steps, why try to understand
LB> everything that happens along the way ?
It has been confirmed that there is no such thing as "the Lord."
Sorry!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:24:24
EID:a5b5 2233b300
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1f053b54
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 27c79880
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marilyn Burge to ALL:
MB> Is anybody else as bored with Quantum Deities and the "constants"
MB> as I am?
MB> We definitely need a new batch of fundies. Maybe we can talk
MB> Edweird into another month haitus and a return as a saved
MB> Christer.
Kind of like Pecos Bill pretending to be a greenhorn?
I don't think it would work. I can't suppress my natural
disgusting vileness for more than a minute or two.
Well, wait a minute. Let's give this thing a try.
F*CK! SH*T!
Hey! I can do it!
edweird
... Another American for a work-free drugplace!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Walking on water
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:43:52
EID:7fa7 2233b560
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 6e2e3604
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e18491
18 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Ed Mills:
Jd> On 16 Jan 97 22:07:12 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
EM> This Dutch talk is really turning me on. I'm a recovering
EM> wooden-shoe fetishist, y'know. :)
Jd> Recovering??..........slivers?
Jd> Mama mia, Itsa Gouda Italiana cheesa!
It wasn't Dutch? It sure sounded like it.
What's that smell? F-16 exhaust fumes again?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Adjustable dog carrier
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:48:40
EID:111c 2233b600
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ae66537f
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e24703
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Ed Mills:
Jd> Hello Ed,
Jd> After viewing with secret decoder ring, Edwierd's message said;
Jd> > Adjustable dog carrier
Jd> Lacking a patent number, could this be adopted as mass transit
Jd> for fundees attending parochial schools?
Sure. Just redesign it with a buttplug at both ends.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christanic
|Date: 18 Jan 97 16:01:00
EID:76d0 22328020
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E141B3
Date: 01-16-97 (01:51)
From: DAN CEPPA
To: RONALD VASS
Subj: Al S.; Warring Chr
DC>-> On 14 Jan 97 10:40:00, Ronald Vass got back to David Worrell
DC> RV> ......now he's got pagens on the war path.....you get threats of
DC> RV> getting sue/policy 4 complaints and then the top honor of 'fundy'.
DC>Hey! I'd try and gert you psissed of abouyt me for telling
DC>you how bad your spiulling is. (DOS that work?)
You could try to convince me that WIN95 is the best sofeware
to hit the market. minor and not likely.
You want to really grab my chain and tick me off. Just pull
a CHRISTIAN stunt, and tell me how abuseing a person makes or
helps them be a better person or 'it' never really effects them.
ie: in other words abuse is no big deal.
That really grabs my chain. It's a weakness of mine and i willing
admit it.
EXAMPLE: via Robert and Al.........
* * * * * * * *
Date: 01-16-97 (16:03)
From: ROBERT CURRY
To: AL SCHROEDER
Subj: omni-sadistic
-
RC> BTW, where is Jesus when little children are raped right before
RC> his allegedly all-seeing eyes?
AS> Well, since He is a part of God, who is omnipresent, He is there.
So Jesus fucks the little children. How sweet.
* * * * * * * * * * *
As one can see, for Al, it's no big deal. It's that point of
view that really gets to me. Then too, "no soul", critters are
like that. Now an then, a MINI van may come along, to try a straighten
this warp view, so far i've never been convince otherwise. As I say, I'm still looking for a true Christian.
Perhaps, just perhaps, I may be wrong and the abuse is for their
betterment. I'm not holding any breath in hopes of a REAL Answer. Just
lies and bullshit so far, is all that i have seen.
DC> RV> Dam you guys are good.
DC>We do are best!
See ...envious... in your ability.
DC> RV> Dam , will just have to work harder. O'well back to the boat
with
DC> RV> some more bait.
DC>Get it rigged with a sail and you'll really have some fun!
My brother had a sailboat for a few years, a VERY nice way to travel.
Agree.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Quick, Jesus -- to the Godcave!" - Hector Plasmic
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:08:00
EID:479e 22326100
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E141B5
>GTP>> Much as I hate to admit that males and females are that different,
I
>GTP>> admit there are things that only a woman can give another woman.
Is
>GTP>> nurture? it inherent in gender?
>RV> For sure the same information is processed differently, that and how
>RV> socity forces us all, into certain modes. Other then brest feeding,
som
>RV> males are as good as the female to the nurture bit. I don't feel either
>RV> are any better then the other to nurture a child, once it's out. To
>RV> know a life is growing within your body, is something no male could
>RV> understand, that could be a difference to those who have had a child.
GTP>Men have to learn, with women it seems instinctive (I say, after watching
b
GTP>my son and his lady learn to deal with a new baby.)
Ok, kid. Here we part. My experience here, kind of matchs some
of my reading on animals and socialize of same. I/we raised a goat
that didn't see young being born or nurse.When her kids
pop out, she had no idea why the young were going at her tits, she
didn't know to clean the sack off them. She took the kids as ALIEN
THINGS . She didn't fear them but did run away from
them or drove the kids away. It , is a somewhat
learned behaviour from observation of the past. Not all females have
this ability from day one, some are maybe better then others.
GTP>GTP>> It isn't silly to us. I was terrified of computers five years
ago.
GTP>GTP>> I have said before, I've had some bad experiences with
GTP>GTP>> mainframes. I S worry about hitting the wrong button and
GTP>GTP>> destroying my pc.
GTP>RV> I got her passed the fear of the wrong button, being pushed. It's
more
GTP>RV> then that, just lack of interest? She's read over my shoulders and
just
GTP>RV> class it all as silly as shit. She, needless to say , doesn't
buy
GTP>RV> into a god idea and any who is stupid enought to believe in gods,
shoul
GTP>RV> do the world a favor and kill themselfs.
GTP> Sounds like at least one of my kids.
Her kid also. The corruption is getting passed down the line.
GTP>>>RV> It's not a case where spelling and context isn't the best.When
she's
GTP>GTP>> Dear, that could be a life's work. I'm glad she helps.
GTP>RV> True enought. She does the correcting for her son also. Must
GTP>RV> be a male thing.
GTP>I don't know. I have to correct my daughter's spelling.
My sister and her daughter also. Poor kid, just like me, that way.
>>RV>> She's a gem but boy in some areas. I just don't understand.
>GTP>> If we totally understood each other, where would be the adventure,
hu
>RV> It's getting bad though. In some areas a 'word' is all that is needed
>RV> and the other can complete the thought. Scarry, we understand each
othe
>RV> too much.
GTP>That happens at our house alot.
Talking with each other, rather then 'at' each other, helps. Big time.
It's the trying to understand, where each is comeing from that helps. A
no right/wrong point of view also helps.
* SLMR 2.1a * "I think not," said Descartes -- and promptly disappeared
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:09:00
EID:9170 22326120
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E141B6
AS> RV> Not I. I blew that one. What it taught me, was never to make that
AS> RV> mistake again to those I care about.
AS> And that's still a wise decision. Tell people how much you love them
NOW.
AS> Tomorrow may be too late.
The next moment, may be too late, forget tomorrow.
* SLMR 2.1a * "I'm getting in touch with my inner bitch" Nicole Hollan
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:08:00
EID:2423 22327900
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E141B7
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-14-97 (03:56) Number: 38840
From: ROBERT CURRY Refer#: NONE
To: MARILYN BURGE Recvd: NO
Subj: ... Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RC>with: Al Schroeder
RC> AS> Prayer isn't sorcery, Marilyn. It's a request.
RC> MB> The scripture doesn't say "ask and I'll answer," it says
RC> MB> ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! There is no room for refusal
RC> MB> in that statement.
RC>Even Al has better sense than to believe what the bible says!
He believes in the god of the bible ? No ? For that, He MUST
buy other lies also. God or Gods dieing, going to hell, rideing
sun beams. You know, shit like that.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Hell exists because god loves you." - Mikey Haardy
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Granny runs away
|Date: 18 Jan 97 16:23:00
EID:93f2 223282e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E141B8
MM>MM> What 'grabbed my chain' was your naked cruelty
MM>RV> Perhaps if you looked within yourself and was honest to
MM>RV> yourself, you will find the same ability.
MM>MM>Of course you are quite correct. We all have a ferocious and
MM>MM>UNsympathetic kind of honesty inside. For example, what I
MM>RV> Good, now we get the nurtureing view from a women.
MM>No, now you got what you pleaded for.... honesty without
MM>emphathy.
THAT was a plead ? Now look to who is fishing.
MM>MM> - this from a man who turned with hatred on somebody who
MM>MM> expressed sympathy on his ordeal
MM>RV> Mike ?? express sympathy ?? for me. Boy, your out to lunch
MM>RV> here.
MM>Not Mike at all. Al did that, and from that moment you
MM>never said a civil thing to him again. Very strange reaction.
Gee, and here i thought we were nattering about, Mike the hardcase
and his wife who is dieing.
MM>RV> It doesn't bother me. Perhaps your feeling better by not
MM>RV> have to hold back. How you feel. Better ?
MM>Indifferent.
About what i expected, just trying to shit disturb.
* SLMR 2.1a * Don't blame gravity on me, I voted for Velcro.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Psychic Bandit
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ??
|Date: 19 Jan 97 10:46:00
EID:8ece 223355c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E281F6
RC> AS>> Jesse's a big boy, and his decisions are his own. Similarly,
RC> AS>> Curtis is a big boy, and HIS decisions are his own.
RC> CJ> And this was one of the right ones. I might do the occasional
RC> CJ> correcting of an Al "fact"--and there's plenty of them to do,
RC> CJ> but I'm staying away from that tar baby. Jeez, he's *still*
RC> CJ> whining about the e-mail thing! Has it hit 2 months yet that
RC> CJ> he's been doing that?
RC>Easily that. He was also boasting that he'll "outlast" me on the
RC>issue (similar to his earlier boasting of "I'll wear you out" made
RC>to Ronald Vass). Poor Al seems intent on digging his own grave,
RC>and then burying himself with his own junk email!
It would also appear, that my solution is working also. I still
believe that Al would be a fun person to chat with face to face.
I've met others that JUST have to Have the last word, I admit, this
i don't/likely never will/ understand.
* SLMR 2.1a * She wore an iron bra. Tanks for the mammaries.
* LAKOTA v1.3
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Re: cheese whiz
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:32:10
EID:ae68 22337c00
MSGID: 1:221/203 23368701
TID: GE/32 1.2
CJ> BJ> The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.
CJ>
CJ> The Lord is an 'Indian giver.'
In a manner of speaking. But the fact is, nothing ever "ceases" to be His,
thus it's not quite the same.
CJ> think of a better phrase.>
I'd be more afraid of your blasphemies and where they will leave you...
CJ> BJ> Lat time I heard, Dr.Morgentaller, and every other practicing
CJ> BJ> abortionist, are not God.
CJ>
CJ> That's right--they're not responsible for the menstrual
CJ> cycle, which aborts embryos by design.
CJ> God is still the biggest abortionist of all. Live with it.
People die, and at all stages of life. That is the state of things. There
is
a difference though between nature taking it's course, and human
self-righteousness intervening, and interfering. If anything, we should
always "interfere" for the better, to foster life, not to destroy it. Indeed,
this hostile world does enough of that for us, without us having any need
to
contribute.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 221/203 200 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: JOE MARTIN
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: YOUR SOUL....
|Date: 19 Jan 97 10:14:00
EID:f340 223351c0
Greetings ROD
13-Jan-97 23:35:00, ROD SWIFT wrote to SANDY HOOPER
Subject: YOUR SOUL....C
RS> We get to live sane, useful, worthwhile lives not worrying about
RS> the next existence -- while you folk are pissing your finite time
RS> up against a wall worrying about the next emanation....
One cult even considers THESE body functions a sin and is teaching
their kids to "hold it"... forever!
-=>j<=-
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
ž TerMail/QWK ž Mass debators still do it alone...
--- PCBoard 15.2
* Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)247-7900 (1:134/10)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/10 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:00:30
EID:9c72 22336800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287d6
AS>> Got me. I'm a reasonable good artist with pencil or pen, but I'm no
AS>> Frazetta or Boris or Bama.
GtP>> Well, buggers.
AS> I'm not totally without talent, though...
GtP>
It was an interesting way to pick girls up when you were in college...take
a sketchpad, stand a ways off, look around, and then go up to the girl and
say, "Excuse me, would you mind if I drew you?" Very few said no. And one
can be subtly flattering when drawing. They would always be interested in
the sketch I made. It was a great ice breaker.
I blushed like an rose when we had our first nude model in drawing
class, though.
... I passed my ethics course. I cheated, of course.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:11:10
EID:9daf 22323960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287d7
MB> The scripture doesn't say "ask and I'll answer," it says
MB> ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! There is no room for refusal
MB> in that statement.
RC> Even Al has better sense than to believe what the bible says!
At least, better sense than to take one statement out of context and not
see how it is applied throughout the rest of the work.
... 186,000 Miles per second, its not just a good idea, its the law.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:16:36
EID:9daf 22323a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287d8
AS>> Prayer isn't sorcery, Marilyn. It's a request.
AS>> Sometimes the answer is no.
RC> Always it's just as if there is no god at all.
AS> Not always.
RC> Oh? Such as when, for instance?
Such as when prayers are answered, for instance. A good example can be
found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when the
world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
... Universe: Imagination riding on Paradox.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:25:20
EID:bbef 22323b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287d9
AS> Yep. And that is an inevitable byproduct of a polytheistic worldview.
RH> But Al, a monotheistic god could also be capricious. In fact YHVH
RH> has been so Himself. It's in the book!
But one also tries to reconcile it all to God's "plan" for mankind or
creation. Whereas, in the Greek viewpoint, there are many squabbling
gods...and only Zeus had the final say, and even so, his will could be
thwarted. Just ask Hera. There were the Fates above THEM, but there was
no
appeal to the Fates, and no indication that they cared especially for
human beings.
AS> Yes indeed; one has a lot of sympathy with Einstein. The first time
I
AS> really comprehended QM, my first reaction was, "Okay, now REALLY,
AS> what do you mean..."
RH> I still feel that way. I keep looking for the catch....
The transactional approach comes CLOSE to making sense, but it has
interesting implications vis-a-vis the inevitability of the future and
free will.
... Modem? I've been calling using tarot cards and a spoon!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
1 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absense of belief
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:03:18
EID:18be 22336860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287da
AS> Well, I'm sorry you have meager abilities to educate people....
RC> Only enough to educate those who are willing to learn. That's usually
RC> quite sufficient, but you have your predetermined dogma to defend.
Odd. Usually it is not the educator who is afraid to read books that the
student recommends...
AS> And from whence sprang that methodology?
RC> Practicality and observation.
Which would have never been applied had not there been a mindset which
presupposes natural laws and rythyms, in the face of seeming
irrationallity and irregularity.
AS> Why did we apply it, again and again, in the face of all the
AS> evidence?
RC> Because the evidence is that it generally works. No belief required.
What part of "in the face of" do you not understand, Robert? You're saying
it works. I'm saying why did we apply it to see if it would work?
AS> (And further, why do we still try to apply it, with varying
AS> degrees of success, to things that appear truly random, like
AS> quantum mechanics?)
RC> Because that's what scientists *do* when engaging in science, Al.
RC> Otherwise it wouldn't be science, now, would it?
As you say. Without the BELIEF in the regularity of nature, it wouldn't
be
science.
AS> It springs from our belief that the universe is NOT random,
RC> While that may be a belief held by some individuals, it is hardly
RC> a requirement for performing scientific investigation, Al.
RC> Maybe if you try soaking your head in vinegar, this fact may
RC> finally penetrate that thick skull of yours.
Find me a scientist that believes that the universe acts in a random
manner (i.e., without regular laws) which is the clear use I made of the
above. If you can find such an individual. Then we can ask him, why does
he bother to test..for anything?
RC> The fact is that regularities can be discovered, as observation
RC> demonstrates. Whether or not one believes that there is *always*
RC> some underlying regularity to be discovered, without exception,
RC> doesn't change that fact one bit, Al.
Robert, as you said in another post, that isn't science. Why test, if the
answer is "it's irregular"? That effectively shuts the door on further
inquiry.
RC> You seem stuck in the past, like a child who insists that since
RC> all of his friends learned to ride a bike with the training
RC> wheels of belief, there must be something essential about those
RC> training wheels to the ability of successfully riding a bike.
RC> What else can I say but, "No, belief is not required" -- if you
RC> choose to listen, then you will listen, and if you choose to stick
RC> to your pretedermined and rather shallow beliefs, then you will
RC> keep insisting on those training wheels.
Too bad real scientists don't agree with you.
For instance, Paul Davies.
"Science is predicated on the assumption that nature is both ordered and
rational. Scientists believe we can come to understand the world, at least
in part, through the exercise of reasoning. Although it is PURELY AN ACT
OF
FAITH that the universe should be this way, almost all scientists BELIEVE
it."
Now Robert...you were saying...?
... The lab called................Your brain's ready.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Afraid of mortality?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:50:16
EID:b866 22323e40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287db
AS> Thank you, Robert. Sincerely. It is nice to see beautiful
AS> words used well, even if I don't agree with the sentiment.
RC> So you're one who would prefer (in the words of the Rubaiyat of
RC> Omar Khayyam), having been buried once, to be dug up again.
In the Resurrection sense? Indeed.
RC> It's a fine struggle against reality, Al.
The reality where a universe can appear in a Big Bang, with literally
nothing before it...perhaps not even time or space? The reality where a
wave can become a particle?
Rather interesting reality.
... Devoted to the study of cat bathing as a martial art.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Al B.
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:56:40
EID:97a6 22323f00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287dc
RC> Well, if you prefer the taste of your own foot, leave it there.
On the ground? Certainly.
RC> Ah, the "little game" where you pretend (very briefly) that your
RC> babbling somehow causes a person to lack the courage to answer.
Well, evidently to choose not to download a mail reader, first off...
AS> Personally, if my mail reader crashed, I would download
AS> another one posthaste without bothering to reply. It takes
AS> only a few hours, if that. But if you were challenged by
AS> that, such things happen.
RC> Did you say _hours_? For a task that takes minutes? LOL!
What part of "if that" do you not understand? I was being charitable.
Sometimes finding a text editor that works well with the mail reader can
take a few minutes. If you use a spellchecker, more so. You dashed off at
least a half-dozen replies without one. It's odd you would do so, and even
complain about the lack of mailreader, since you could download it in
minutes.
AS> I doubt if you could.
RC> I too doubt that anyone could belabor a point to the same degree
RC> that you've repeatedly demonstrated here over the most trivial
RC> things imaginable.
Not quite as trivial as arguing about literally nothing...or zero...with
Brawley. ROFL!!
... I have a collect call from Reality. Will you accept...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 18 Jan 97 08:07:00
EID:3206 223240e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287dd
RC> It's no big deal for an atheist who is also a godfather,
RC> I assure you.
AS> Certainly not if you delight in contradicting yourself.
RC> ROFL! There you go again with the "contradiction" bit. Where, pray
RC> tell, is this mysterious contradiction, Al?
In the part before you quoted, where you started out "Good Lord, you are
dense," and I replied, "Not as dense as an atheist calling on a 'Good
Lord', methinks." That strikes me as somewhat contradictory.
RC> While the phrasing may inspire some cognitive dissonance, it has
RC> no element of contradiction in it. You are invited to consult the
RC> Oxford American Dictionary definition of "godfather" for further
RC> information, if you need it.
Wrong contradiction, Godfather. (Are you going to make me an offer I can't
refuse, Don Corleone?)
RC> Do you sink when immersed in liquid mercury, btw?
AS> Ahhh, THAT's better. That actually took some thought to think up.
RC> Ah, yes, the exertion of a nanosecond.
You can think ANYTHING in a billionth of a second? ROFL!!!!
AS> The answer is, only if I'm holding onto you...
RC> And in return you provide the exertion of a kindergarden comeback.
One suits the replies to the audience.
AS> or for that matter, if we lay you flat and then spin you at
AS> half the speed of light, do you become a Tiplerian time
AS> machine?
RC> Just let me know how many extra hours you need to set up a mailreader
RC> which the unenlightened easily set up in minutes.
I dunno, Rob. Obviously enough to dash off a half-dozen posts the day
before...
... "And my ending is despair unless I be reliev'd by prayer,"-Shakespeare
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 18 Jan 97 08:08:58
EID:3206 22324100
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287de
AS> Oddly enough, Hec, those two examples are physical metaphors for
AS> emotional states. I have no problems with metaphors.
RC> Then why do you appear to have some sort of problem with an atheist
RC> being a godfather?
I don't. I think it's funny for an atheist to go "Good Lord!" I still do.
AS> The above are spiritual, surely?
RC> As a godfather, Al, I'm actually quite natural.
UNnatural, rather.
RC> There's nothing spooky, spiritual, or supernatural about it, despite
RC> your arrogant, unthinking misconceptions on the matter.
Even to the point of your misconception of which contradiction I'm talking
about?
... He's mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:54:32
EID:c3aa 223346c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287df
RC> Maybe you really are capable of learning a few things after all.
Sure. I read. Even books that disagree with me. It's a good habit to get
into.
AS> the idea that the constants we perceive, "just are".
RC> How about the idea -- which happens to possess the virtue of being
RC> true -- that we don't presently have sufficient information to
RC> do much more than speculate wildly on the subject, which lies at
Much of cosmology is "wild speculation", Robert. Still, we must proceed
with what we have.
AS>> Would you rather I claim that God definitely exists?
RC> You are free to claim whatever you like. The goofier, the
RC> better, as far as I'm concerned -- I've quite given up on
RC> getting any intellectual substance from you, so your clown
RC> act is going to have to make do.
Fine. Now, Robert, observe this pie I hold in my hand...OOPS. It seems to
be all over your face now...
AS> I, on the other hand, remain incurably optimistic about
AS> you...besides, you make an EXCELLENT straight man.
RC> I don't see what sexual preference has to do with it.
See? Now I can say, "At least ONE of your heads is good for something..."
... Men despise religion. They hate it and are afraid it may be true.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:05:32
EID:c3aa 223368a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e0
RC> Not if you suppose a god exists, because then it would be a part
RC> of the universe.
AS> Depends in which sense you use the word, Robert. If you're talking
AS> about universe in the sense of "all there is" then a God is
AS> included, if there is a God.
RC> Bingo.
Okay, then we'll go that route.
RC> So assuming a god to exist does nothing to explain the initial
RC> conditions of the universe, does it?
Certainly it does; it assumes that the bedrock of reality is intelligent
and omnipotent (in the sense that He can do anything that it not logically
inconsistent.) and that the later conditions of the universe we observe
are a matter of deliberate selection. God IS the initial conditions of the
universe, in the sense you are using it. It assumes that the intital
conditions of the universe are outside time and space...which neatly
sidesteps the need to "explain" it at all, or rather it is its own
explanation. There is no reason to search for further explanation if there
is no time in which cause and effect takes place. It becomes a First Cause
by being outside, although causing, the causal chain at all.
OTOH, if there is no God, and we just contemplate the universe, we have
the initial conditions of the universe being the Big Bang (insofar as we
have actual evidence for) and, unlike every other physical event we know
of, has no preceding cause for that effect. There is no explanation of
why this only happened once. The initial condition seemed to have begun
time, but with no time preceding it, so again, unlike everything else that
happens in this selfsame universe, it was an event without cause.
And of course...it is suprising that the conditions that seem without
cause seem just right to evolve intelligent life. Even J.L. Mackie,
certainly no believer in God and a reknowed atheist (and an excellent
thinker, you could learn a lot from him, Curry) in his MIRACLE OF
THEISM...page 141 in this edition...sees this flaw in thinking things
"have to be as they are, otherwise we wouldn't be here. "There is only one
actual universe, with a unique set of basic materials and physical
constants, and it is therefore suprising that the elements of this unique
set-up are just right for life when they might easily have been wrong.
This is not made less suprising by the fact that if it had not been so,
no
one would have been here to be surprised. We can properly envision and
consider alternative possibilities which do not include our being there
to
experience them."
RC> All that you are doing, Al, is grasping at straws to find something
RC> that looks like reasonable support for believing in a god. Why can't
RC> you just admit that it's entirely a matter of faith, and evidence
RC> never enters into the dogmatism of believing in a god at any price.
Because I don't think that's the truth, Robert.
AS> I believe the First Cause is intelligent
RC> You can *believe* until you turn blue in the face, Al. Big deal.
Much as I BELIEVE I'm posting to you, and that you're intelligent.... I
might be wrong, though.
RC> Have you any evidence? Any evidence that there is such a thing
RC> as "the first cause" to begin with would be nice (after which you
RC> may feel free to present the case for this alleged "first cause"
RC> to be identical to the particular mythology you worship).
An infinitely oscillating universe would run out of "steam" as has been
shown, by Guth and others. So there must be a first...cause.
AS> You would perhaps maintain the universes' initial conditions
AS> simply ARE,
RC> Of course they "are" -- that much can be stated. To assert that you
RC> know a great deal MORE than that is intellectually dishonest when
RC> in fact you are an ignorant person trying his best to pretend that
RC> he has actual knowledge in areas where even the experts can only
RC> speculate at best.
Experts like...
"The theoretical investigations initiated by Carter reveal that in some
sense the subjet of the ensemble conating worlds able to evolve observers
is very 'small'.
Most perturbations of the fundamental constants of nature away from their
actual numberical values lead to model worlds that are still-born, unable
to generate observers and become cognizable. Usually, they allow neither
nuclei, atoms, not stars to exist." (Barrow and Tipler)
"The puzzle becomes greater when one inquires whether there is anything
special about the acutal laws of the universe as opposed to the infinite
number of alternatives. It turns out there are many special features that
characterize known laws. One if the efficiency with whichcomplex physical
structures emerge in nature. The most conspicuous example concerns
biological organisms. Even slight variations in the forms of the laws of
physics would probably produce a universe in which life is impossible."
(Paul Davies).
"Such properties seem to run through the fabric of the natural world like
a thread of happy coincidences. But there are so many odd coincidences
essential to life that some explanation seems required to account for
them."--Fred Hoyle.
"Slight variations in physical laws such as gravity or electromagnetism
would make life impossible...the necessity to produce life lies at the
center of the universe's whole machinery and design." (John Wheeler.)
RC> There is nothing that a religious apologist won't stoop to, it seems.
Including quoting facts...even when they are uncomfortable to a snide
sceptic.
... Only the educated are free -- Epictetus
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:24:16
EID:01e5 22324b00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e1
RC> the author of CONTRA CELSUS cannot be trusted to have been
RC> intellectually honest by modern standards.
AS> I witness your silly "CANNOT" without any justification
AS> whatsoever.
RC> Gee, that couldn't have anything to do with your omission of the
RC> preceding paragraphs in the thread which quite fully justified it?
It DOES???? Well, feel free to quote where it does. Where exactly is it
shown that the author of CONTRA CELSUS cannot be truested to be
intellectually honest by modern standards? Shown as in demonstrated. And
remember, we are NOT talking about other authors here, or other
Christians, JUST the author of CONTRA CELSUS per your claim.
RC> You're going Appletoony on us, Al.
You're getting delusional on us, Robert. I saw no such "show". I saw vague
indictments against all of Christianity, but certainly no place where you
showed that the author of CONTRA CELSUS isn't intellectually honest. If
you think you did...feel free to repost the paragraph or paragraphs.
RC> Can YOU trust those who think it is a good thing to BURN THE BOOKS
RC> OF THEIR OPPONENTS to possess our modern standards of intellectual
RC> honesty, Al?
Oddly enough, despite the book burning under Diocletian, I don't throw
out ALL pagan texts...Oh! Wasn't that what you meant?
RC> Are you seriously proposing that we can grant these doctrinal writers
RC> from a barbaric age to have the same standards of intellectual
RC> honesty that evolved over the centuries long after they were dead?
RC> Is that what you can do, Al? Because I can't.
Certainly standards have changed in some respects. That doesn't mean I
have to doubt everything written in ancient times without exception. I am
quite comfortable examining Josephus or Tacitus or Seutonius, who all have
their relative axe to grind, and trust some of the things they say.
RC> It makes absolutely no sense to believe that modern standards of
RC> intellectual honesty were held by religious fanatics of almost two
RC> thousand years ago, especially when these standards are not even
RC> honored by the religious fanatics of TODAY!
ALL of the "religious fanatics of today"? Is that an unqualified
assertion, Robert?
AS> How utterly idiotic and sad, Robert.
RC> My feelings about your excessive gullibility, exactly.
Too bad you are not as skeptical about skepticism as you are about other
things...
AS> Not at all; but you could say that about ANYTHING, Robert.
RC> As indeed I do. I don't treat religious fraud any differently than
RC> other types of fraud. Maybe you would prefer that religious nonsense
RC> be granted special license to deceive for the cause, but I find
RC> the traditional notion of special rights for make believe disgusting.
Not at all; but by the same standards....there certainly were book
burnings by the pagans. Do you then, discount ALL pagan writings because
of it?
And if you don't...why the double standard?
AS> Guilty until proven innocent, you mean? ROFL!!!
RC> Unconfirmed until confirmed, actually. But don't let such a little
RC> thing like what people actually say prevent you from misrepresenting
RC> their remarks, Al. I wouldn't want you to strain yourself with
RC> modern notions of intellectual honesty.
My original statement still stands, Robert. You are accusing the author
of
CONTRA CELSUS of being guilty of lying and fraud, are you not?
... Be yourself: it scares the hell out of everyone else!!!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:09:56
EID:8600 22336920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e2
AS> If you are really interested in seeing the fallacies of atheism,
RC> I'm still waiting for you to come up with how atheism supposedly
RC> contradicts itself. Have you forgotten?
Not at all. I've already posted something that contradicts those that do
not believe in things outside nature, which I was assuming your brand of
atheism was a subset of. However, if you believe in the supernatural
(although I believe you said you didn't) it does not apply to you. And see
my two-parter to Fred Rice, where I quote Chesterton rather extensively,
if
your mail reader can handle it.
AS> I recommend Chesterton's ORTHODOXY,
RC> ORTHODOX, n., An ox wearing the popular religious yoke.
RC> (courtesy of Ambrose Bierce)
"Men despise religion; they hate it, and they fear it is true."--Blaise
Pascal, noted mathematician...and Christian.
(Please note, everybody. This is another way for Curry to say he won't
read a book.)
... Speak the truth, but leave immediately after. --Yugoslav Proverb
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: cost
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:37:12
EID:a1b0 22324ca0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e3
RC> A teddy bear is real, and doesn't cost nearly as much.
AS> No doubt you should know...
RC> Anyone can check the relative prices, Al. Styx gets the credit for
RC> first stating the above truism here in the 'Smoke, btw.
But I'm sure Styx can find more entertaining things to sleep with these
days...and I THOUGHT the above was far cleverer than your norm. Thanks for
acknowledging who you lifted it from.
AS> how often do you replace yours?
RC> Do you mean a teddy bear or a god? The last time I saw the former
RC> was when I had my tonsils removed (about age six or seven). The latter
Doubtless causing great childhood trauma that explains much about your
present personality...
RC> I collect by the dozens as an amusing hobby.
Well, it IS better to sleep with Aphrodite, Freya, and Tiamat.
... Those who think they know it all are a pain to those of us who do.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Starfire
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:39:48
EID:52d8 22324ce0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e4
AS> Yeah, but NOW you can fight for yourself. And you're doing an excellent
AS> job. Obviously you inherited a lot from BOTH parents.
St> Nope, just mama!
Natural talent, then.
... When you read the newspaper today you have to read between the lies.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: disgusted
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:11:08
EID:a4a8 22336960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e5
RC> Believe what you like -- you certainly have practice at disregarding
RC> anything that conflicts with what you want to believe.
Well, at least I give it an honest chance by READING it, Robert. As
opposed to...
AS> Many of the nontheists of the echo.
RC> John Jeanneault is a nontheist? News to me! Last time I checked, he
RC> confirmed that he was still superstitious.
He AGREED with John's post. Now read John's post on why theists should
leave. (Which I disagreed with, and still do.)
RC> So you aren't proud to have disgusted and alienated him. Gee,
RC> and here I thought you were getting commisions for driving
RC> people as far away from your religion as possible.
AS> Are you seriously suggesting that Curtis is a ripe candidate
AS> for conversion?
RC> No, your misrepresentation is quite absurd.
So is the idea of my getting commissions for drivng people as far away
from my religion as possible. But hey, if YOU do it, it's all right...
AS> Congratulations on your falling flat on your face. Too bad for
AS> you that Curtis asked me a question in this very packet.
AS> ROFL!!!
RC> In what sense is asking a question incompatible with having been
RC> thoroughly disgusted and alienated by you? There's a distinct lack
RC> of clear, logical thinking in the statements that you make here, Al.
He is free to feel as he wants, of course. But if he is so disgusted and
alienated by me, why even bother to ask a question? Why should he expect
an answer which would satisfy him? But that's his business.
... There is hope for a bad man. There is no hope for the stupid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:58:26
EID:7cf3 22324f40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e6
AS> Which is again, a very cogent difference between us two.
RC> It is the difference between applying thought to various situations,
RC> versus merely adhering blindly to a petrified rule no matter what
RC> the situation. The latter is but a poor substitute for ethics.
Is it indeed?
Then surely, we will take money from our employers if they are themselves
mismanging business affairs...or cheat on our spouses if we want revenge
on them for any slight, imagined or real...since we ourselves are always
determining what is "right" and "wrong".
RC> So it all boils down to your being accustomed to unbendable rules
RC> without practical value, and my appropriate response to your silly
RC> junk email gave you a fit because that wasn't what YOU would do.
A fit? Hardly. Just observing the difference in standards.
RC> Oh, the horrible SIN of it all! (ROFL!)
If you get several doing it, do they become a sindicate?
... Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:13:16
EID:393f 223251a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e7
AS> "God too has His hell; it is His love for Man."--Nietzche.
RC> ROFL! This is the same god who is dead, in case you forgot. Perhaps
RC> a case of suicide, in grief for all the pain and suffering of the
RC> Hell this god created for itself.
Nietzche's beliefs were interesting. He also believed that all things
happened over and over, continuously...that they would HAVE to.
RC> Can you say, "Accessory before the fact?" I knew you could.
AS> You planning to prosecute?
RC> No, you're confusing me with Judith. I was planning to defend.
I'm sure you would have tried your best.
AS> I think freedom is worth fighting for.
RC> Curious. So did the characters who defended humanity against Yahweh
RC> in Lester del Rey's story, "For I Am a Jealous People."
Good. So did Bonhoeffer.
AS> So ineffective that it transformed Western Europe?
RC> So I neglected to account for the Dark Ages. Sorry. I was thinking
RC> of effectiveness in some *positive* sense.
So was I. See my post to Lynda.
AS> Ahhh, but if He is God,
RC> Another "IF" -- sort of like, "If I had any evidence for my religious
RC> dogma, then I wouldn't have to keep saying 'if' all the time." -- Al
RC> B.
Or, IF I was a fanatic, and hadn't the imagination to consider other
possibilities, I would stop saying...IF.
RC> And -IF- he was god, then crucifixion was nothing at all for him to
RC> handle the way you or I might deal with a hangnail. Ouch! There, all
Why? Why would the pain be less real to Him?
RC> gone now. No big deal. Nothing at all compared to the real people
RC> who really and truly did suffer the agonies of crucifixion, lasting
RC> sometimes for days.
Who usually weren't whipped by a Roman whip first...usually there is a piece
of metal or bone in those, and they could exceed the number of lashes the
Jewish authorities had. Many times people died from the whippings alone.
AS> And notice, He allows BOTH to post.
RC> Just like Santa Claus!
Odd. I don't know of people who endured whippings, possible
imprisonment,and in some cases death for their belief in Santa Claus...or
even the very historical Saint Nicholas.
... Last time you knew all the answers, you were wrong...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:27:10
EID:1c76 22325360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e8
AS>> Then why do these universes, teeming with intelligent life, not
AS>> come up in representative samples?
AS> Well? I asked WHY they do not come up with representative samples.
RC> No, Al, you asked why they do not come up _IN_ what you were stupidly
RC> assuming were representative samples.
RC> Can't you read what you yourself wrote?
RC> What you quoted, even?
RC> Simply amazing.
Isn't it though? Since the meaning is the same either way, it IS amazing
that you would point that out.
And where is the assumption that they ARE representative samples, above,
that you say I was "stupidly" assuming?
AS> I did not claim that they definitely were.
RC> Nice backpeddle.
RC> You've been doing a lot of that lately.
It's not backpeddling to note that I did not say what you mistakenly
accuse me of saying. It's precision.
AS> Now. Again. Where did I claim they were a representative sample?
RC> If you are retracting the insinuation, or pretending never to have
RC> made it, then your backpeddle is good enough for me, Al. The fact
Neither. I am asking you to back up YOUR assertion.
RC> remains that you still have no answer to the Sample Space Challengs.
As you had no answer for a hypothetical Appleton-clone who asks one for
the "sample space" in which one can determine whether evolution, or
multiple changes all at once without anything preceding it...rather like
the universe...suddenly appearing? But I have expert upon expert (quoted
to you in another post this packet) that think it's a reasonable assertion
that in most possible universes, intelligent life would not result, and
some go further than that.
AS> I am asking YOU what makes you think they are not?
RC> I already answered that one, too: Points selected solely from the
RC> axes of a phase space are hardly representative, Al. So how many
RC> times do I have to repeat this very specific answer that I already
RC> gave to you, before you stop pretending not to have seen it?
And I replied...and even quoted two scientists, Gribbin and Rees...how it
was not a single change, but there have been multiples changes with the
same results.
AS> On the contrary. Those "ifs" are the stuff science (and
AS> imagination) is built on.
RC> Science explores many dead ends before discovering what works,
RC> certainly. You have presented nothing more than speculative dead
RC> ends. Is that it? Nothing more?
Unfortunately scientists...Barrow, Tipler, Rees, Gribbin, Hoyle, Wheeler,
among others, disagree with you. Of course you MAY be right and all of
them wrong. But I find every reason to credit them...rather than you.
AS> And all you have is denial
RC> Of what?
Of, among other things, reading books that could explain things much
better than this limited forum can do.
RC> You haven't presented anything yet besides mere speculation, dead
RC> ends aplenty, and the arrogant attitude that you must be right
RC> even though you can't produce a shred of evidence to support your
RC> dogmatic religious beliefs.
No. When I quote a source, I am a "babbling bullshitter". If I don't quote
a source, I have no evidence. Catch 22.
AS> and a bucketful of nothing.
RC> That would be the bucket that contains your substantive response to
RC> the Sample Space Challenge. You're right: it's empty!
In which case, if you think there is no sample space, and that it is
essential to the argument, then all the above scientists are wrong...and
you are right? Interesting arrogance, Robert...
... A little knowledge isn't enough.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom to blame
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:29:46
EID:d499 223253a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287e9
RC> That's why I've never blamed a god for anything.
AS> It's an even better idea to place the blame on those who
AS> DO the action, Robert.
RC> Isn't that what I just said?
Not in this packet. You seem to be accusing Jesus of raping little girls.
Which seems about as grotesque a bit of slander as the tales spread by the
Nazis about Jews lusting after Aryan women...or the tales spread by the
Klan of black men wanting to rape white girls.
RC> Once again, that's why I've never blamed a god for anything.
RC> It would be like blaming Santa Claus.
Then why do you do so in this very same packet?
... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: fucked up priorities
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:34:30
EID:de74 22325440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ea
AS> If you think you can do without it, that's of course up to you.
RC> I know that millions not only CAN do without it, but that they always
RC> have done without it. Others do without it after kicking the habit.
And of course, millions have decided they have had enough of doing without
it, and come to it.
RC> Oh, that's right: as an atheist, I'm not supposed to give a shit how
RC> people suffer from the mental illnesses that religiosity encourages.
Which mental illnesses are those? That religiosity encourages?
AS> But when you class a whole class of people as "sick" who hold
AS> different worldviews than you,
RC> The entire group is superstitious, Al. A significant percentage suffer
RC> from various sicknesses _of_ religious superstition -- those that
RC> a habit of superstition *encourages* in people who really do not need
RC> make believe, despite indoctrinated belief to the contrary.
If religion is so damaging to the psyche and brings on mental illness, it
seems odd in ALMOST every culture (didn't say it, Marty Leipzig!) that
religion crops up.
AS> one might wonder what hidden insecurities MIGHT be driving
AS> that. (Note the might, please.)
RC> Simuilarly, one might wonder why you MIGHT kill runaway children in
RC> the name of the omni-raping Jesus. (Note the might, please.)
Tsk, tsk. Just last post you said you did not blame a God for anything,
that it would be like blaming Santa Claus. Now you accuse Him of
"omni-raping". Do let me know what the REAL Robert Curry thinks...if there
is one.
... No one ever really knows themself. That certainly makes YOU lucky.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:39:12
EID:efc0 223254e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287eb
GtP> Well, folks, I'm back into Homeschooling and I have limited time.
In
GtP> deference to all the folks who requested that the flamewar end--and
GtP> for my kids--I am taking a break for a month or so to better spend
my
GtP> time teaching my kids to loathe authority, question everything, and
GtP> resist bigotry and hypocrisy. I have found that the only way to end
GtP> something like this is to go away for awhile. People just won't drop
GtP> it and I can't make them. To those of you out there who just let us
GtP> fight, thanks. For those of you who only want atheists (which I am
GtP> but that doesn't count I guess, go figure) to have the right to be
GtP> bigots, oh well. Just goes to show that EVERY race, religion (or lack
Noticed that too, did you? But teaching the kids is much more important.
GtP> thereof), and peoples has assholes. See ya in a month or so, or
GtP> whenever I have the time.
GtP> See ya in IRC, folks.
GtP> BTW, the rest will probably still hang around. Well, maybe. After
my
GtP> telling the kids how great folks were here, they are somewhat
GtP> disappointed that they are mostly getting flames and bashing of sig
GtP> lines. (Thanks, Al, Suzanne likes getting mail from you)
The feeling is definitely mutual.
... Terminator Spaghetti: Pasta la vista, baby!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: How many people read the Christian bible?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:40:48
EID:2111 22325500
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ec
AS> Uh...not doubting you, Gwenny, but I am seriously doubting that article.
AS> There are indeed countries where the majority are overwhelmingly Catholic.
AS> Maybe it just mean evangilical Fundamentalists, the "born again" types,
or
AS> something.
GtP> That is why I mentioned that it was about fundies. Most fundies don't
GtP> consider Catholics, Mormons, Adventists, etc to be True Christians.
.
GtP> .until it's time to consider stats. I think the article was
GtP> tongue in cheek. It SEEMED tobe applauding the evangelizing efforts
GtP> of locals missionary groups, but it IS the Denver Post.
Ahhh....having never been to Denver (having never been to COLORADO, even)
I wouldn't know. I take it the Denver Post is the equivelent of our
Nashville Scene...irreverent and fun.
... "You live and learn. Or you don't live long." -L. Long. ___ Blue
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:49:36
EID:d3cb 22325620
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ed
AS> As Haldane said a long time ago, "If my mental processes are
AS> determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no
AS> reason to suppose my
AS> beliefs are true...and hence Ihave no reason for supposing my brain
AS> to be composed of atoms." Once you throw the process of making
RH> You equally have no reason to suppose they are false. This logic
RH> is faulty, Al.
Maybe not. Look, as much as I believe in evolution, I would be the first
to say it is a slipshod method. Look at the appendix, or the way the
testicles have to hang outside the body. Now think that what we are
reasoning with is the product of that same slipshod method.
AS> inferences in suspicion, any reasoning you use to try to prove its
AS> validity is itself a product of inferences.
AS> But, if there is something beyond Nature in our inferences..in the
AS> certainty from which we derive the knoweldge of "if A, then B"...then
AS> we may trust our reason.
AS> And ONLY then.
RH> Baloney. There are tests for errors, Al, and they don't require
RH> invisible superfriends to make them work.
But what judges their validity is always judged by what might be...faulty
instruments...our brains.
RH> You're slipping....
I don't think so. The same point has been made by others.
... Some think I am a pain in the neck, others have a lower opinion!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 18 Jan 97 11:00:04
EID:0d2b 22325800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ee
AS> Not exactly. How do you distinguish between individual
AS> hallucination of what is in front of you, and the real thing?
RC> That's the best you can do? Well, I have experienced on at least
RC> one occasion an auditory hallucination where it sounded like the
RC> telephone was ringing. The answer is to test one sense against
RC> others; i.e., the utilization of confirmatory evidence. Since a
RC> phone vibrats when it rings, there is one quick test.
And if you are hallucinating both? Don't say it's unlikely. A dream is a
hallucination that often uses several senses.
RC> For a more mundane example of checking sensory data, one that does
RC> not involve anything so extreme as a halucination, but which is
RC> instead repeatable -- you can reproduce this yourself if you like:
RC> Observe a straight stick or drinking straw. Now immerse half of it
RC> in water while continuing to observe it. You will see that it is
RC> bent for no apparant reason (an experience that you are free to
RC> interpret as divine intervention in the laws of nature). However,
RC> your tactile sense will return the informaton that the object
RC> remains straight. Since sight is based upon the transmission
RC> of light thrugh an intervening medium, you are invited to bring
RC> your attention to the boundary between the water and the air above
RC> it, which causes refraction and thus the *appearance* of bending.
Indeed. And how do you know it is the light and not the touch that is
distorted by the water?
RC> So have you finished with your ridiculous "you do SO have belief"
RC> assertion, Al?
Nope. I am amused that you are so afraid of the word BELIEF, though.
Believeophobia, or something.
AS>> If a leprauchaun popped up right in front of you, would you
AS>> credit it?
RC> Sure, why not?
AS> Then doubtless you think David Copperfield performs ACTUAL
AS> violations of the laws of physics,
RC> No, why should I? That's quite a non sequitur, btw.
Not really. A leprauchan would be a magical being, by definition. If he
"popped up" he would be proving his magicalness. Yet David Copperfield
does illusions quite as startling.
AS> Than how can you tell apart individual hallucination from
AS> reality?
RC> See my description above.
Insufficient. How do you tell that your hallucination is not encompassing
more than one sense? Many do.
AS> What distinguishes your dreams from your waking life?
RC> People change identities more often and rather abruptly in my
RC> dreams, for one thing.
Do you notice that at the time? I would venture to say not...
AS> How do you distinguish which is real?
RC> Evidence. And you?
I have faith that one set of recurring instances are reality,and the rest
are departures from it. All of your evidence above is suspect...barely
evidence at all.
AS> Do you then, think that one falling in a dream is in as much
AS> danger as one falling in real life? And how do you distinguish
AS> the two?
RC> No, because of the difference that DOES distinguish them.
Which is?
RC> It was quite responsive. I was completely serious.
It still does not give any credible test from distinguishing dreams from
reality.
RC> is impossible to enjoy responding. Elementary Logic 101.
Doubtless as high as you got.
... And to think, he's the product of 3,800,000,000 years of evolution.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: I'm BAAAAAAACK!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 04:33:04
EID:0f96 22332420
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ef
GTP>>> I don't remember you. Doesn't mean anything, I'm getting old.
AS>> Well, if nothing else, he's Becke's new husband...
GtP>> Oh, I know that. I meant I didn't remember him posting in here
GtP>> before. He and Becke trade off on the IRC.
AS> Yeah. It's weird to be talking to a girl and "see" them become a guy.
But
AS> then, I've led a sheltered life.
GtP> IF he's still alive.
Ahhh, I think Becke has too many other uses for him at the moment to try
to kill him...
AS> I wasn't sure if you caught into Paul's real name, though, since #irc
AS> uses nicks.
GtP> I heard it somewhere else.
I see.
... My apologies if that made any sense at all...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: idle
|Date: 19 Jan 97 04:35:00
EID:54d3 22332460
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f0
EM> O god of atheism, I beseech thee:
I think when you do, that, being the god of atheism, they take your tongue
away, for praying to them....
However, last I heard, though not an atheist herself, Lynda is also the
godDESS of atheism...maybe you should ask her.
... Where does Peter Pan eat?-----------Wendy's
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: infinite life
|Date: 19 Jan 97 04:51:18
EID:62d9 22332660
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f1
AS> Well, it's an interesting claim, Hec/Mark. Are you including
AS> yourself in "a few of us"? Then by all means, create a
AS> hypothetical universe where the enviornment would be universe-
AS> wide in which life can grow infinitely.
RC> Are you familiar with Conway's creation of "Life" by any chance?
Yes, it's mentioned in Dawkins'...either the BLIND WATCHMAKER or THE
SELFISH GENE, I think the former.
RC> It involves cellular automata operating by a few simple rules in an
RC> infinitely large two dimensional grid. Infinite growth is possible
RC> within this model. You are suffering from a lack of imagination, Al.
Or from an imput of knowledge. Because, of course, the above is untrue,
in that it cannot create an infinite group of cellular automata at one
time without drawing on an infinite amount of energy. The computer memory
must be, by definition, finite, and information theory plays very well in
there. So it is not possible FOR THE COMPUTER. However, if we have an
infinite being behind it, it might be possible. Good point.
RC> Let me know if you care enough to investigate the matter further.
RC> I'll be happy to oblige with whatever references you might require
RC> in the event that you are interested.
Other references would be welcome. I'M not afraid to read. I first
read it in Dawkins, and came across another passing reference, I
believe, but never read anything devoted solely to it. What was most
interesting is how evolution did occur among those cellular automata with
a few simple rules.
Indeed, it would be interesting if they evolved to the point where they
had a civlization, started the scientific process, etc. Theoretically,
they would never be able to perceive their creators directly. The computer
programmers who created would be totally exterior to their reality, as I
have contended that God is outside of space and time, yet their very
existence depends on the computer programmers keeping the computer
running. However, if there was something suspiciously contrived about the
few basic rules they were given, cellular automata might notice it and
comment on it...cellular automata that we might, for convenience' sake,
call Barrow, Tipler, Gribbin, Rees, Carter, or Davies...only to be told
that such is meaningless by cellular automata who cannot agree that such
speculations have ANY validity...you might call these more skeptical
automata Kimes or Curry...
... The meaning of life is k##$(%%&^%&$ NO CARRIER
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: into my parlor
|Date: 19 Jan 97 04:54:44
EID:74a6 223326c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f2
AS> Coming from one who regularly characterizes others as "morons",
RC> Correction. I regularly characterize _YOU_ as a moron, Al.
You are not classing me as "other" than yourself? Horrible thought, that
we might be the same.
AS> one can only wonder if you recognize everyone's boorishness
AS> but your own.
RC> Did you forget your "gentle smile" deliberately or by accident?
Deliberately.
RC> You really should clean up after yourself when you leave such
RC> messes around, you know. It would only be sanitary.
AS> I know, but I couldn't get the bedpan under you in time.
RC> Your projectile vomiting would be better directed elsewhere, and
RC> please use a barf bag, as your habit of upending the bedpan of puke
RC> onto your own head is rather revolting.
Directed elsewhere than under you? Okay, next time I'll aim higher.
... Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Just say NO!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:17:42
EID:356a 22336a20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f3
AS> I wasn't aware I "sucked up" to any god. However, Aphrodite and Freya
I
AS> might give consideration to...
GtP> And I am Freya's earthly representative for my hearth. I expect
GtP> to see some good "sucking" up. ROFL
I am told it's reasonable, but that might be mere male vanity speaking.
I
suppose one should ask Glen whether Freya's earthly representative
reciprocates... but that's between you and him.
... Eagles soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:19:28
EID:a805 22336a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f4
AS> The logical POSSIBILITY of domains--
RC> Exactly. The *possibilities* are relevent to determining a sample
RC> space. You seem to be catching on.
Then why object below...
AS> i.e., domains are not proven, but remain a THEORY...
RC> LOL! What contorted nonsense are you trying to stuff down my throat
RC> this time, Al B.? You know quite well that I never said any such
RC> thing. You know full well that such a contortion is one of your own
RC> invention, designed for the express purpose of "apologizing" for
RC> your outrageous misrepresentations -- you are trolling.
No, being rather exact. If domains are not proven, they are theoretical.
So to speak of the "domain theory" is essentially the same thing. I don't
know why that particular conjunction of words so offends you, save to give
you something to nitpick endlessly about.
RC> You were babbling about domains, yes. I was pointing out that
RC> logical possibilites help to define a probabilistic sample
RC> space.
AS> Robert. Again. What does "their" refer to?
RC> To the specific possibilities for a specific sample space, though
RC> the concept is perfectly generalizable.
Possibilities of what? Of domains, correct? Which are theoretical. Hence
"domain theory". Why whine like a wounded puppy at the recasting of the
words into a perfectly equivelent statement?
RC> There was no mention of any "domain theory" until after you
RC> introduced that entirely misleading and misrepresentative
RC> phrase into the thread much later on.
If they are only possible, yet unproven, they are, ipso facto,
theoretical. What part of this is so hard to understand?
AS> Excuse me?
RC> I always do.
I wish there was an excuse for YOU.
AS> We were discussing domains.
RC> No, YOU were babbling about domains. I was redirecting your attention
RC> to what mattered in determining a sample space: possibilities.
Possibility of WHAT, again? Domains, correct?
RC> Sorry if it went over your head.
Said he, speaking from the bottom of a dark hole...
RC> Next time warn me by declaring just how dense you are going to be in
RC> advance. Then I can tailor my response to your level of incompetence.
OTOH, I refuse to pander to your silly whining about equivelent
statements. Now tell us what the difference between "possibility of
domains, which are an unproven concept" and "domain theory" is.
RC> Logical possibilities help to define sample spaces, yes.
RC> You may give up the ridiculous misrepresentation that I ever
RC> said a "domain theory" helped to do ANYTHING.
AS> Then WHAT are you referring to below as "their" logical
AS> possibility "helps to define the probabilistic sample space"?
Notice, class, that when pressed, Robert doesn't answer the question...
AS>> ---------------------------------------------------
AS>>> There is NO EVIDENCE for those other domains, Robert.
AS>>
AS>> Yet their logical possibility helps to define the probabilistic
AS>> sample space.
RC> Do YOU see "domain theory" in the above quote, Al?
Certainly I see it recast in other words. I said there is NO EVIDENCE for
domains. Which makes them, not actual, but theoretical. The possibility
of there being domains remains a theory. Hence, "domain theory" is indeed
an equivelent statement. I'm sorry if you don't like your own words, that
it "helps to define the probabilistic sample space".
RC> Are you going to give up the ridiculous misrepresentation that I
RC> ever said a "domain theory" helped to do anything?
Well, I think there is a ridiculous misrepresentation here, but it is you
objecting to two equivelent statements...
RC> Or will you continue to struggle in the quicksand you stepped in?
I'm doing fine, Robert. Jogging all around you, weaving in and out,
watching you deny what you said. It's you who seems to be sinking.
Again. What is "their" referring to? Not just possibilities.
possibilities of WHAT? And when you answer that, the second question is,
are these things proven, or theoretical?
... Never give them hell. Tell the truth and they'll *think* it's hell.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Marilyn Burge
|Date: 19 Jan 97 05:21:02
EID:59a7 22332aa0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f5
AS> No doubt you are applauding Dave Worrell's quoting of Marilyn's
AS> private email, too.
RC> If Marilyn wants my opinion on that, she will ask me. Do you think
RC> you will win her applause by stirring shit the way you've done before
RC> when she had disagreements with others here?
Not at all. Just mentioning that there seems to be something in common,
there.
AS> After all, it is your determination, as the receiver of the
AS> email, whether it is private or not,
RC> By using an ethical sense of judgement, yes, rather than merely blind
RC> obedience to an overly simplistic universal rule.
Ah, yes, a corrupt cop while raking in the money from pimps would
doubtless say the same thing...
AS> even if it is SENT privately--
RC> You're still whining about that? How special.
Isn't it, though? I think email should be treated specially.
AS> No; for anyone who would choose to send email to you.
RC> Then why are you the only one whining about it?
The others are seeing by example, and not sending it.
RC> No one else has complained about my treatment of their messages
RC> to me -- but then, others have better sense than to send
RC> JUNK EMAIL and expect it to be treated with UNDESERVED RESPECT.
But of course, YOUR lapse into sending junk email to me is "temporary
insanity" or "force of habit". No less than three times. How special.
... Your skull is a cerebral cortex compost site.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 19 Jan 97 05:25:26
EID:2eaa 22332b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f6
AS> The answer to that depends. The correct answer of course, is "Even
AS> prettier than usual" (not "more beautiful". Gets them suspicious.)
but if
AS> she REALLY wants a frank appraisal of what she's wearing, it's wise
to
AS> give her one...clothes can be changed. But proceed with caution.
GtP> I want the truth. If I look good, I want to know it. I hate it when
GtP> he says later that an outfit didn't really 'work'. He's a costumer,
GtP> when I ask his opinion, I WANT it. But a 'you look mah-velous
GtP> dahling' wouldn't work.
My sister, before going out on dates, when we were growing up, would often
come to me for the same reason...because she KNEW I wouldn't pretty it up,
if what she had on looked awful, I'd say so. But you have to vary it with
the individual. Some take a criticism of their choice of clothes, even if
coached in excellent terms, "Well, actually I think your red blouse would
go even better with that dress", as a criticism of their taste, and by
extension, themselves.
AS> Yeah. It's interesting that some posters are saying something about
AS> another group which...if, say, Jim Staal said it...he would be a
AS> "brain-dead bigot".
GtP> Yeah. I'm still in shock that we are continuing to get
GtP> serious answers to flames. Oh, well, if we ignore them, they will
die
GtP> out.
Exactly.
GtP>> under way. We only argued facts until we realized it was
a
GtP>> flame.
AS> I always SAID you were a wise woman. I often get in arguments that
are
AS> both facts AND flame.
GtP> Flatterer.
Actually, owning up to a character defiency in myself...with a few
exceptions, I usually take everyone here seriously.
Silly, I know.
... Hades or Elysium--which for you?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 19 Jan 97 05:34:06
EID:f65d 22332c40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f7
AS> I'm perhaps not the one to ask, but I believe that the chimps HAVE
AS> asked for food, at least, when it's not present. But, not sure of
AS> that. I know someone who would know, though. Sue?
KD> Cats are capable of asking for food, Al - the word in feline is
KD> *miaow*, generally with body language indicating the food dishes. So
KD> the fact that primates could do this better is not surprising.
Indeed. But I was thinking a more specific request for food...like making
the sign for "banana" when one is hungry and there is no banana around.
... A man of quality is not threatened by a woman seeking equality
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:23:06
EID:d84f 22336ae0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f8
AS> Tsk. A simple, "I do not back Worrell in that" would be more
AS> to the point.
RC> You just don't get the point, do you?
I do. You seem to be evading, though...
AS> Or "I do defend Worrell's right to do whatever he wants with
AS> private email sent to him." Either would be fine.
RC> Certainly either would suit your purpose of sticking your nose into
RC> other people's shit and rubbing it around for your mere pleasure.
I don't think invective is a substitute for a clear answer.
AS> Which for you?
RC> Neither, of course. It isn't an issue that interests me enough to
RC> comment without being asked (by Marilyn) for my opinion. And I do
RC> not expect her to be particularly interested in my opinion, either.
One can hardly blame her.
RC> Do you imagine she gives a flying fuck about _YOURS_?
No. Why so coy, Robert? In what both you and Mimi have passed back and
forth, it's a perfectly feasible position to say you reserve the right to
make a judgement call about private email sent to you. I don't respect
Mimi less for doing so; why so afraid to grant David the same privilege?
AS> I do NOW.
RC> Excellent! So you are capable of learning some things after all.
One has learned a lot about you.
AS> I like to treat email as private.
RC> ALL email without ANY exception whatsoever? Think about your answer,
RC> now, before spouting off with something incredibly stupid, Al.
If it is something either spamming or rascist/sexist or totally erronous,
I
usually return it to the system administrator with a word, "take care of
it," especially if it was sent by someone I don't know.
RC> Certainly, as the two situations were not comparable. You acted in
RC> bad faith -- whereas I acted to correct your inappropriate behavior
RC> by *returning* your continuation of a HolySmoke thread right back
RC> into the public echo where it belongs.
Which, if I had been asked, I would have doubtless acceded to. And which
I
would have done you the courtesy of asking, if I thought it appropriate.
For instance, when I left the echo for a time, I received several emails
commiserating with my position by posters on this echo. If I had sent them
here in the echo, I would have bolstered my position. I did not, with one
sole exception, and in that case, I specifically asked...and
got...permission to reproduce it.
If somene sends me a letter...especially when I have responded to that
letter, gotten a reply, responded, gotten a reply, responded, gotten a
reply...I would not put the contents in a public forum, like the
newspaper, without that writer's permission. I imagine most of us would
react the same. Is email so different?
AS> As long as YOU decide it is reasonable, Robert.
RC> I am unable to abdicate the responsibility of deciding, Al. You?
Me either. And my decision is to "ask first".
AS> And I apologized to Judith.
RC> As well you should have.
That could be why I did it.
AS> The two are not comparable, because of course there is no
AS> (nor do I expect) apology from you.
RC> It takes someone of your particular brand of unmitigated gall to
RC> suggest an apology is needed for doing what was appropriate.
As it would take someone of your particular brand of boorishness to make
the above statement when the whole discussion is whether it IS
appropriate.
AS> Even to the point of showing the way...by example?
RC> I couldn't hope to teach you anything about being a fool that
RC> you haven't already perfected a dozen ways from Thursday.
I don't know, Robert. You seem to be perfecting new routines all the time.
RC> And those who trust my judgement on the matter do so
RC> with complete confidence.
AS> Or do you want to qualify the "those" to mean, "everybody BUT
AS> Al"?
RC> Everybody who doesn't whine and moan because their JUNK EMAIL on
RC> topics raised in the echo (without any content that could reasonably
RC> be considered confidential) was properly returned to the echo
RC> where it originated.
Ah, then you do qualify it...with, what boils down to, "they can trust my
judgement with complete confidence, as long as they feel as I do on a
matter."
AS> A principle that is held save when it is CONVENIENT for you
AS> to disregard it isn't much of one.
RC> You were treated the same as anyone else, Al. The difference was
RC> simply that your junk email did not contain anything whatsoever of
RC> a personal, private, or confidential nature. Whine all you like,
RC> but every last person here who saw what you wrote -KNOWS- that for
RC> a fact.
RC> You have no choice but to deal with it.
So I am. Which is why I shall never send email to you again, on any
subject.
... Anti-black hole: Willful ignorance so massive, light can't enter.
DR
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: More grist from the web
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:26:46
EID:a848 22336b40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287f9
>DR> 1) How can one ask the gods for forgiveness? Does
>DR> not all evidence point to their nonsexistance,
>DR> irrelevance, and appathy in human affairs?
AS> The constants. People dying for saying they saw Jesus
AS> on the cross, saw Him[sic] die, and rise again...for
AS> us.
DR> You mean just like Elvis, Horus, Krishna, etc. Just how
DR> often do you ask the other sacrificed gods for "forgiveness?"
DR> There's at least 15 sons of god who were crucified BEFORE
DR> your favorate son of god.
Name one besides Christianity which has people of the same generation
saying they saw the god resurrected...and so underwent persecution
(torture, imprisonment, and death) because of it.
>DR> 2) Who in the goddamn hell granted these gods of
>DR> Al's the right to grant forgiveness? Is not that
>DR> the right of those whom one harms, and NOT the
>DR> rights of the gods?
AS> Define "right".
DR> "Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or
DR> morality."
Now, in the matter of justice...do you not grant the right of the state
to
decide whether someone's "rights" have been violated? To either punish,
or
pardon...i.e., grant forgiveness?
AS> Then justify your definition. And then try to figure
AS> that out without an absolute frame of reference.
DR> A "absolute frame of reference" is unnecessary, which is
DR> a good thing since there is no such thing. If you have
DR> any such thing, please present it.
IF there is a final intelligent authority behind the universe, He would
be
it. For as you doubtless know, laws and justice vary greatly over
cultures...morality not as much (in most societies thievery, private
vengeance, etc. are unsanctioned) but even there, some things vary
greatly. Sleeping with another man's wife in Texas a few decades ago could
get you shot legally by the husband, if caught in the act, if I'm
remembering rightly. In Eskimo lands, it was an accepted part of
hospitality.
AS> Many have tried to build an ethos without a God[sic].
AS> It all comes down to "because it's RIGHT, dammit!"
DR> And for some reason Fundamentalist theists (of all cults)
DR> fail to understand the fact that "right and wrong" is both
DR> wired in (nature) and socialized (nurture). By all
DR> accounts; by all observed instances, no gods are required.
DR> Indeed, this is demonstrated by the fact that devout
DR> believers in "absolute frames of reference" (i.e. a god or
DR> gods) have demonstrated, with much butchery, mayhem,
DR> blood, rape, plunder, and pillage, that such a belief tends
DR> to eradicate their innate sense of what is right and wrong.
DR> It has ALWAYS been those who believed in an "absolute frame
DR> of reference" who have commited the worst evils in the world,
DR> "simply" because they ignored their innate sense of right
DR> and instead embraced an external, i.e. false, one, i.e.
DR> gods. What tyrant has NOT been utterly convinced of their
DR> right to enact their tyrany?
I find the "innate" sense of right which, I agree with you, such tyrants
ignore, interesting. And your definition above would also include people
like Stalin, who slaughtered millions without a belief in gods, but yet
felt his Marxism was an "absolute frame of reference".
DR> Er, Al, that's exactly what I said and exactly what you
DR> objected to. There =ARE= "someone who decides what is
DR> right and what is wrong." It's called genetics (nature)
DR> and socialization (nurture).
Or perhaps a little more.
AS> Philosophers litter the bookshelves trying to do a
AS> nontheistic basis for good and bad... right and wrong.
AS> But they are all justifying what we already KNOW deep
AS> down, in many instances.
DR> EXACTLY. No gods required.
Well...no RELIGION required, anyway,
DR> Now then; you ignored the question. Who gave your gods the
DR> right to grant "forgiveness?" Isn't that the venue of those
DR> who have been injured?
Then, if they are all dead, does the injurer get off scott-free? Should
Eichmann be prosecuted only for the tortures endured by those who
survived Auchswitz, and not those who died in it? If forgiveness can only
be granted by the victim, then surely the same applies for blame...
AS> Does not necessarily apply.
DR> It always has. Always. As in =ALWAYS.= There has never
DR> been a time or place where humanity itself did not define
DR> what is and is not "right" and "wrong." These definitions,
DR> from one society to the next, nearly always contain some
DR> of the same ideas about "right" and "wrong" (nature) but
DR> they nearly always contain radically different concepts
DR> (nurture).
Now. Are the same ideas about "right" and "wrong" which you say are nature
and genetics, do they always make evolutionary sense? If they are part of
nature, they should have arisen naturally within the framework of nature,
which is evolution, is it not?
DR> Why posit imaginary super-pals? Isn't part of adulthood
DR> and maturity the inclusion of growing out of such fantasies
DR> and make-believe?
Actually, Dave, last I looked there were more believers in God or gods
than atheists or agnostics among adults.
AS> His[sic] standards do not change, although He[sic] may
AS> alter them to suit the stage of developement WE are in
AS> as a society. As my rules for my ten year old will be
AS> different from any rules I might give him when he is
AS> seventeen. I haven't changed. He will.
DR> #1) You aren't an "absolute frame of regerence" with
DR> regards to what is "right" and "wrong."
Heaven knows THAT'S true.
DR> #2) You exist; by every account known to humanity,
DR> gods do not appear to exist.
I won't argue with the first; I might argue with the second. In almost
every society, there is a sizable fraction of humanity that claims direct
contact with something beyond nature. It might be worth considering if
they were contacting something real, however imperfectly (which could lead
to different interpretations and different religions) or all suffering
from a common delusional mania. I will grant that EITHER is possible.
DR> #3) Our society grants you the right to dictate to your
DR> offsprind what is "right" and "wrong." There is no such
DR> parallel for your gods.
Well...within reason. If you abuse your children, and tell them it's
right, the society will step in, as it should. And of course, what you say
is true for some present day societies...but not in Saudi Arabia, where
eating in Ramadan's daylight hours, if I am remembering correctly, is
punishable. (If not Saudi Arabia, then in some other Islamic country.) It
is generally false for most of the societies man has made, where the
society very much made the religion part of the society, as the Pharoah
was considered a god, the Emperors often cosidered gods in the Roman
EMpire (especially after their demise) and the Japanese Emperors were
considered gods, or god-descended at least, or where kings ruled by
"divine right" supposedly granted by God. So while it is true of our
society, it is not true of the vast majority of societies.
AS> On the contrary, I think it has everything to do with
AS> it; not religion.
DR> That is obvious, though you BELIEVE it: you don't "think"
DR> it. (Demonstrate me wrong and produce your gods and their
DR> "absolute frame of reference").
I have indications (the constants, altruism above and beyond societal or
genetic necessity, the actions of the disciples after the Resurrection)
but no conclusive evidence. I "believe" it AND think it, although of
course some disagree, the way, say, Linde might "believe" AND think that
the theory of domains is correct, although he cannot at present prove it.
DR> "If" this and "if" that. Why play make-believe?
Only a fanatic says things without qualification. I use it in the same
sense that Hawking might say, IF the "no boundary" Hartle-Hawking is true,
such and such follows.
>DR> Don't you want to believe that your betters will be
>DR> punished forever?! Don't you want your resentment and
>DR> frustration in life (due to your mediocre, rather
>DR> inferior and pathetic life) revenged upon those who
>DR> are better, happier, and more fulfileld than you?!
>DR> That's what Christianity is all about, after all.
AS> I don't think so. I don't think Martin Luther King
AS> thought so either. To name just one.
DR> That only demonstrates the fact that he knew a potent tool
DR> (religion) when he saw it.
Yes indeed. But that doesn't mean...and I hope you aren't implying...that
he didn't BELIEVE in it.
(Cont.)
... I am, therefore I think, I think...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: More grist from the web TWO
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:30:26
EID:812f 22336bc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287fa
(Cont.)
DR> 1) What gave your gods the right to forgive people? Isn't
DR> that the right granted to the victims?
The same right an artist has to forgive someone who mars his paintings.
The same right an artist has to judge his own work.
DR> 2) If there is a "absolute frame of reference" for what is
DR> considered "right" and "wrong," why is it that not only
DR> does every civilization differs, sometimes drastically,
DR> but each civilization's concepts of "absolute frame of
DR> reference" differ with time, also sometimes drastically?
Because...as you yourself pointed out earlier...there are some bedrock
things that do not differ from culture to culture, which you ascribe to
nature and genetics. I agree in many cases, BTW. Just not in all. So I
divide those even further, to some which are born out of genetic
necessity, and some which are a product of an outside force meddling in
the design.
Other things do not fall under that category, and vary from society to
society. There might be a great many things that society varies that the
"absolute frame of reference" might not approve of, but allows, the same
way my sons often do things I do not approve of, but I let them make their
own decisions, even if I think it's a dumb one. On other things I do NOT
let them do, under any circumstances, such as hit females.
DR> 3) What is this "absolute frame of reference?" Please
DR> produce it =NOW.= Thank you.
I cannot, any more than Hawking can produce testable evidence for the
Hartle-Hawking no-boundary proposal.
DR> 4) Have you read Robert Green Ingersol's speach on why
DR> nontheists are moral and ethical, even thought they lack
DR> belief in the gods? If not, would you like to? If so,
DR> shall I send a copy to you? If so, what is your email
DR> address?
No, I have't read it. Yes, I would like to, although I suspect we agree
(unlike some past posters, I have never said atheists do not do good
works, or are not moral or ethical) on most points. My email address is
al.schroeder@nashville.com. Please send it.
... Imagination is intelligence having fun.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:31:02
EID:1e89 22336be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287fb
DC> Look at it this way: I feel the same about defending Appleton!
Mooth speaks, and you defending Appleton....can I claim the two instances
above as examples of miracles?
... "Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." -- Thomas Paine (1737-1809)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Of threats of Hell...
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:03:52
EID:d8ba 22333860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287fc
AS> Be more than happy to. Go to the nearest church, and tell the
AS> preacher there you are interested in getting to "Heaven".
RC> ROFL! No, Al -- it's the New, Improved version of Hell that I'd
RC> prefer to be signed up for. You know, the one that doesn't qualify
Funny, a lot of atheists here tell me that the traditional idea of Heaven
would be hellish for them...
RC> as a pious threat. Or is that not what you meant, because you were
RC> really *agreeing* with Dan that your religious make believe is a
RC> primitive means of threatening people?
Well, it depends on how you look at it, Robert. One could also say that
they are trying to warn people of possible consequences, as one might slap
a warning label on a pack of cigarettes. That's not threatening people,
it's letting them know what might happen. And of course, the alternative
must also be brought up...that if you don't smoke, you will probably live
longer and healthier, just as I mentioned before, the alternative that CAN
be chosen is to live forever in ecstacy and happiness.
... "Thence we came forth to see the stars again." -- Dante
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: omni-sadistic
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:12:30
EID:78c8 22333980
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287fd
RC> BTW, where is Jesus when little children are raped right before
RC> his allegedly all-seeing eyes?
AS> Well, since He is a part of God, who is omnipresent, He is there.
RC> So Jesus fucks the little children. How sweet.
No; "what you do FOR the least of these, you do for me." He is present in
the victim. But the perpetuator? "Whosoever hateth his brother is a
murderer; and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in
him"---and rape is essentially an act of violence and hate. And similarly,
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject ot
the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh
cannot please God."
Oh, tell us again how you don't blame gods for anything.
How sweet.
... On what conclusion do you base your facts?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:33:34
EID:0643 22336c20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287fe
AS> Then why bother to rage at me for replying to your email...
RC> Now what are you making up? "Rage?" ROFL! What rage would that be, Al?
Would you prefer excessive whining? No problem, no problem at all...
RC> If there's "raging" here, then you must mean your continual whimpering
RC> rage over the terrible tragedy of your email being returned to
RC> the echo whence the thread originated, and where it belonged, given
RC> the fact that you have failed to identify ANY part of it that was
RC> either personal, private, or confidential.
Not at all. Just interested in the difference in standards. And of course
there is another issue. Since you have offered to give the entire exchange
to others, there is no guarentee that it IS the entire exchange, save your
word on it. Many here have been caught with...ummm, faulty memory, to use
a kind phrase. And our relations are not the friendliest. When one posts
a
public post, everyone can see the original. But now, one only has the
person who is offering or reposting it's word for it, that it is the
entire exchange. In general...not saying it is so in this case...it is a
bad idea. Can one imagine, say, Appleton, in poessession of private email
and quoting it selectively, making one say things that were not the
original intention? So, for that reason, among many others, I do always
ask the originator of the email for permission to repost it.
RC> All your whining is about nothing, it seems. Par for the course.
Is it nothing, or "zero"?
... Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:28:26
EID:9096 22333b80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e287ff
GTP>> Honestly, you'll find that many of us won't commit to a belief
GTP>> system. It keeps it more simple. If no one knows what you believe,
GTP>> no one can tease you about it.
AS> And SOME of us are brave enough and honest enough to say what they
AS> believe without any quibbling. (Do I hear a voice from the Peanut
AS> Gallery saying, "Stupid enough?" "Masochistic enough?")
GtP> Um, it wasn't me.
Wouldn't hurt me if you did, Gwenny. There are times when I'm saying that
to myself...
AS> Just teasing, Gwenny. Yours is probably the wiser course. I just like
AS> a good fight.
GtP> And I get plenty of good fights. Not committing to one belief allows
You certainly do.
GtP> me argue AGAINST what I believe. Honest. I've done it occassionally.
GtP> And very occassionally, it has made me really rethink my position.
Yes. But being in the minority in this echo, it's best I stay pretty
straight with what I believe, rather than waste time trolling.
GtP> (NO female dominant jokes, okay. )
I wouldn't dream of it, Lilith. OOPS!!
... A path without obstacles probably leads nowhere.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: sort of crunchy
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:39:36
EID:ebf1 22336ce0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e28800
AS> And thank you for shopping at JesusMart.
RC> I especially like the body-and-blood samples, where you can step
RC> right up to take a bite out of christ.
Thank you, I rather like that bit of ritualized cannibalism myself. BTW,
pay attention to the "blue light" specials where anything you did wrong
in
the past will be forgiven you.
And everyone who signs up for the drawing to go to Heaven will win,
guarenteed! The only way you can not go is to not sign up...
... And whether you know it or not, the universe is laughing at you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: truth
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:00:00
EID:fe04 22334000
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e28801
AS> You go back far enough, we all have a "warrior tradition". I don't
paint
AS> myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my Celt,
AS> English, or Germanic ancestors did.
GtP> Wild is referring, I believe, to the fact that we are not
GtP> "white-light-channeling, crystal-wienie, bunnies-and-light,
GtP> oh-you-unevolved-barbarian New Agers.
Thank goodness. You're too intelligent for that.
... Darned Unitarians burned a question mark on my lawn.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: waiting, still
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:29:18
EID:0e59 223343a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e28802
AS> Are you not an atheist?
RC> You know that I am. Are you going to get to the point? Did you HAVE
a
RC> point when you claimed that "atheism contradicts itself?"
RC> I'm still waiting, Al.
You've already gotten the answer.
AS> And do you believe they have an actual existence, in the
AS> Pythogorean sense?
RC> What on Earth is "the Pythagorean sense?" (Here, have some rope.)
The belief of some of the followers of Pythogoras that numbers were the
basic ground of existence. (Here, let me give it back to you. Pay no
attention to the noose.)
AS> Or are they merely labels we put on things?
RC> No. They are immaterial things which can have many different labels.
Ah. Then you believe--sorry, strike that, the word offends
you--understand, is that better?--that numbers have an existence, even if
immaterial? That three objects not only are themselves, but take on a
"threeness" in the Platonic sense? Fascinating. Now, in that I am more of
the nature of a skeptic, in that I believe that numbers have no existence
save in the reason that observes it.
AS> If you are a naturalist, you believe
RC> Wrong.
RC> Back up.
RC> Try again.
I see that now, and am flabbergasted and surprised. I too believe in
immaterial things which can have many different labels. To name just one,
soul, which is sometimes labelled ka, spirit, etc. It's nice to see we
agree on SOMETHING.
AS> See above.
RC> ROFL! Your projection of "belief" onto someone who has none is
RC> hardly revealing of any contradiction, Al.
A rose by any other name...it's still a belief, Robert.
... Not allowed? My dear fellow, I'm allowed everywhere. - Doctor Who
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:43:16
EID:a7b9 22334560
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e28803
RC> Behold the hurt puppydog!
Behold the braying ass...
... If idiots could fly, this would be an airport.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: wishes and assertions
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:50:04
EID:e2dc 22334640
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e28804
AS> Hector mine...
RC> Be careful what you wish for, Al B.
I try to. I enjoyed seeing Hector post again.
RC> While I'm at it, I might as well take this moment to identify yet
RC> another one of your many strawman misrepresentations:
AS> To assert that there is no reason why the laws of physics
AS> are as they are
RC> Who, pray tell, has asserted that? If you seriously believe that such
RC> an assertion is the only alternative to theism, then you are even
RC> more stupid than I thought (perilously close to the Staal Zone). If
RC> you do know that such an assertion is NOT the only alternative to
RC> theism, then you are intellectually dishonest for pretending it is.
Not at all, Robert. And of course, nowhere in the above did I say it was
the ONLY alternative, so the only one open to the charge of intellectual
dishonesty is yourself. It is an excellent example of a strawman
misrepresentation on YOUR part to assert it.
I have said consistently that I see five
alternatives....pure chance, logical necessity, greater probability,
ensemble, and designer. You and Hector objected continuously, but never
supplied a sixth.
... Your wealth of ignorance astounds me.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: 2 Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:14:26
EID:64fc 2231a9c0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab4
Hi Andrew...
On 04 Jan 97 02:57:33, Andrew Masten penned the following to Marty Leipzig
re: 2 Andy's on the ropes.
AM> You should read from a fellow named J.L. Mackie. An atheist who
AM> saw a flaw in Hume's argument.
AM> "There is only one actual universe, with a unique set of basic
Right away there is a flaw in Mackie's argument. There is only
one OBSERVED universe. We can only speculate as to how many
there really are. Maybe there isn't even one universe and this
is all imaginary? B-})
AM> materials and physical constants, and it is therefore surprising
AM> that the elements of this unique setup are just right for life
AM> when they might easily have been wrong. This is not made less
Second flaw: It's not surprising at all. In fact, it would be
more surprising if it weren't, mostly because we wouldn't be
around to be surprised, someone (or something) else would be.
John
... Faith does not offer the least support for proof of truth. - Nietzsche
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:21:48
EID:3e07 2231aaa0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab5
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf13d4
Hi Nate...
On 04 Jan 97 20:37:08, Nate Cookson penned the following to Martin Goldberg
re: atheistic bombast
NC> Exactly my point! Our "technology" hasn't been able to "prove"
NC> His existence yet.... but that doesn't "prove" He doesn't exist.
It isn't necessary, Nate. All that IS necessary is to show that
the various "God"s of the Bible are merely man's description of
deeply held convictions.
NC> Since we have "evidence" that things exist that we don't know
NC> about, it is very possible that He does exist.... Just like the
NC> many other things mankind will someday discover.
Which "He" is this, Nate? The "God" of the Bible? The one with
a consort, the one who acts like a petulant child or the one
Paul saw in his sunstroke visions?
NC> Face it! Your kind isn the narrow minded and prejudiced...
Religious fundamentalists of any kind are narrow-minded and
prejudiced. Atheists tend to be broad minded, but just as
prejudiced against the ignorant.
John
... Given a conflict, Murphy's Law supercedes Newton's.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:55:32
EID:3480 2231b6e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fac1
Hi Marty!
On 11 Jan 97 08:11:34, Marty Leipzig penned the following to Gwenny the
Pooh
re: Cheese Whiz
KB> Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
KB> happy life as a vegetarian.
ML>
GtP> Maybe YOU can, I can't. Seriously, I can't get all the chemicals I
GtP> need from legumes (besides the fact they make me ill). So it's meat
GtP> or be miserable for me.
Meat I could give up I think... as long as Doritos continues to
make Zesty Cheese Taco Chips! They're the world's most perfect
simulated food, dontchaknow!
ML> My diagnosis of bilateral evagenous diverticulitis has, sadly,
ML> removed me from the bovine, porcine and ovine predator list.
I can see you now... stalking that can of Metamucil with a
Kalishnikov poised in case it charges you! Beware of the wild
fibre!
ML> I must now make content with the killing of the occasional
ML> domesticated barnyard fowl; eviscerating and excoriating it
ML> and eating it's flesh after being charred on an open mesquite
ML> fire.
Yuck... ever been to a chicken ranch, Marty? (Not the Nevada
variety either!) I'd eat (yuck!) FISH before I'd eat chicken...
and I have a general rule against eating things with a blood
temperature lower than my own!
Mind you, there are some things that smell like fish and taste like
chicken, but we won't go into that...
ML> I'd kill for a 64 oz. porterhouse, blood rare. Unfortunately,
ML> it'd probably return the favor.
Stick to just the Porter... the hops have medicinal value
unrecognized by modern science...
ML> Oh, and I take gobs of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
Ye Gods! Alternative medicines? B-})
ML> I wish they made them in beef flavor though...
They do... they're called "Oxo cubes". Add two tabs of Kyolic
garlic every day and you'll be pouring single malt on that
searing hunk of bovine muscle tissue in no time!
BTW, By FAR the best use for Scotch is as a meat tenderizer.
You'll like it much better than MSG and the mesquite takes away
that "yellow snow" odour.
ML> ... Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.
With their captors coming in a close second... B-})
RevJohn
... All the world's a stage; and I'm leaving on the next one!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Darrow and Ethics
|Date: 17 Jan 97 23:15:18
EID:b417 2231b9e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fac2
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000d6a29
Hi David...
On 10 Jan 97 19:21:00, David Ragland penned the following to Laurie Appleton
re: Darrow and Ethics
DR> Don't let that get to ya Laurie. I didn't back away from you in
DR> Skeptical Inquiry and I won't do so in here either. Us blathering
DR> fundies gotta stick together no matter what! :)
After all... SOMEONE has to go down with the sinking ship!
B-})
RevJohn
... Before you teach tricks to a dog, make sure you know more than the dog
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Darrow Nonsense (b).
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:32:10
EID:9e8d 2231ac00
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab6
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88913074
Laurie...
You really are the supreme idiot, aren't you? Do you consider
yourself a martyr or something? Do you enjoy being crucified in
here daily?
On 04 Jan 97 09:32:58, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Dan Ceppa
re: Darrow Nonsense (b).
LA> What a shame for Darrow that NO TEST ever made for
LA> evolution has ever confirmed it! It has FAILED every test
You're a fucking asshole, Appleton. Allele frequency is the
goddamn test, which you would understand if you didn't have your
head up your ass.
How anyone can take this much abuse and STILL be a fucking
goofball is beyond me!
LA> that they have so far thought up! Evolutionists themselves
LA> admit this as the following shows;
You FUCKING IDIOT! How many times do you need to have your
face rubbed in it!
LA> "Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described,
LIAR! Ignorant buffoon! Charlatan of the first water! (Hey...
this is FUN!!!) Popper described evolution as testable and your
wiggling won't get you out of it. Fuck you AND the horse you
rode in on!
LA> one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations.
Check the archives, asshole. You've been debunked, you will
continue to be debunked, and I predict that you will make
yourself look like the perfect fool once again in the near
future, providing the entire world with an intimate glimpse at
the intellectual bankruptcy, dishonesty and charlatanism that
you portray in every post.
LA> Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is
LA> thus "outside of empirical science" but not necessarily
LA> false."
Erlich is wrong as has been pointed out to you before. your
sick and repulsive behaviour is stinking up all of
fidonet.
LA> So evolution is OUTSIDE OF SCIENCE or in other words
No, you are outside of reality BEGGING for someone to listen to
you rant and rave like the lunatic you are. Don't you remember
that even Hoyle says that you are IRRATIONAL? Doesn't that give
you a hint?
Get a fucking clue, idiot.
LA> "NON-SCIENCE". So you can "BELIEVE" anything you like but
LA> evolution is NOT science!
YOU'RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR LYING, LAURIE!
But don't despair... there's a 2000 inch TV there with 200 channels
and they're ALL science channels. You'll have all of eternity to
think about your putrid behaviour in this life.
RevJohn
... Half the truth is often a great lie. - Franklin
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:51:42
EID:11d1 2231ae60
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cd1c7d
Hi Dan...
On 03 Jan 97 14:49:33, Dan Ceppa penned the following to Laurie Appleton
re: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
-> On 02 Jan 97 01:08:30, Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa
LA> Perhaps you need to know the story of the Channeled
LA> Scablands as told by dear old S.J. Gould. Here is some bits
DC> Perhaps you should try reading the book and understanding it before
DC> you attempt to quote from what you don't know. It would, of
DC> course, be a first on your part to do so.
What? Laurie actually READ a book? Especially a book by that
nazi satanist SJG? GOD FORBID!
He's already admitted that he has read very few of the works he
quotes and has just posted crap from the RQB. He's a charlatan,
and all we can do is hound him until everyone knows it.
He's the only person ever to enter this echo who has managed to
bring that level of invective out of me. He may be the only
person ANYWHERE who has been able to do that!
John
... 99% of people are stupid, and the remaining 1% of us risk infection.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Flexible Dating.
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:01:34
EID:1e34 2231b020
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab8
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88912f95
On 04 Jan 97 09:31:10, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Flexible Dating.
RM> Please, look up something on isochron methods, Laurie.
RM> There are NO assumptions involved. Until you learn
RM> something about modern technology, you are just spitting
LA> You betray your own ignorance so clearly, and display a
LOL! You stupid git!
LA> gullibility that indicates more of a FAITH position than a
LA> scientific one. As I pointed out before;
...
LA> volcanism". Science, vol.193, 17 September 1976, p.1093.)
He said MODERN you fucking goofball. Get your head out of your
ass for once, will you?
... Josh McDowell: evidence of stupidity that demands a verdict
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 17 Jan 97 23:18:30
EID:2fa2 2231ba40
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fac3
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 b5f22723
Hi Ed...
On 11 Jan 97 21:35:28, Ed Mills penned the following to Marty Leipzig
re: Goodbye
RC> Let me know when you receive the Twelve Revelations from the GDO.
ML> "GDO"? You still waiting for him?
EM>
EM> Ah, yes. I have fond memories of a GDO one of the kids had
EM> where I went to high school. It was a "Judge" model: 389,
EM> three two-barrels, Muncie four-speed, posi rear end. Vroom!
I owned one once... worst car I ever had, too!
I drive a Volvo now... they attract a better class of women,
IMHO... at least they're safe and reliable. B-})
John
... "Gran Tourisimo Omologato" - Italian/American for "I've got a
... 10-inch tongue and I can breathe through my ears!"
... Hills weed out the weak. Darwin would argue this is good.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: It's true! You're a schmuck!
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:03:38
EID:6d43 2231b060
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fab9
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf15c8
Hi Nate...
On 04 Jan 97 20:45:28, Nate Cookson penned the following to Marty Leipzig
re: It's true! You're a schmuck!
ML> You are a fucking moron; and a prosaic one as well.
NC> More evidence of what higher education can do to ones brain.....
Yeah... it makes you a whole lot less tolerant of ignorant
fools who should know better.
John
... We now return to our regularly scheduled flame-throwing.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:07:20
EID:f81c 2231b0e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0faba
Hi Carl.
On 05 Jan 97 15:25:34, Carl Pollock penned the following to MARTIN GOLDBERG
re: Re: Pray Contest
MG@> We don't want bible quotes. We want to know spcifically why your god
MG@> starves innocnet people to death.
CP> And how do I prove this point with out quoting bible text?
Cross-disicpline analysis. It works in the humanities and in
the sciences. Surely there is some verification from other
sources... if there isn't then it's merely opinion.
John
... Any fool can criticize and most fools do. - Dale Carnegie
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific Facts (c)
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:12:42
EID:c071 2231b180
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fabb
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32d12893
I'm sending this again since it's been two weeks, Laurie. What's
the problem... doesn't your quote book or the poor scholars in
your little cult have anything to say about it?
On 05 Jan 97 13:24:14, John Musselwhite penned the following to Laurie
Appleton
re: Scientific Facts (c)
JM> Hi Laurie...
JM>
JM> I could simply say you're just blowing it out your ass again,
JM> but those hanging on your every word might learn something from
JM> this.
JM>
JM> On 27 Dec 96 09:02:28, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick
JM> Mcfarlane re: Scientific Facts (c)
RM> Was I trying to establish that some specific organism
RM> in the Cambrian was descended from some specific organism in
RM> the Precambrian? No I was not.
JM>
JM> It matters little if he was, since that information has been
JM> specifically established. See S.J. Gould's "Wonderful Life", page
JM> 208. There is enough scientific information in that one book to
JM> make any statement you may make on the subject seem like a tiny
JM> tot repeating "is not! is not!" over and over ad nauseum.
LA> I accept your admission that you are totally unable to
LA> identify any Cambrian fossil as a descentant of any
LA> Precambrian fossil! In other words you are just ASSUMING
JM>
JM> No Laurie, he's assuming you remember what has been posted to
JM> you earlier when we all know that your memory is as poor as
JM> your reading comprehension.
JM>
JM> The precambrian and soft-bodied Naraoia is an ancestor of the
JM> trilobite. That is at least one. I could offer more but the
JM> book mentioned above covers it in more detail than you could
JM> ever handle.
LA> they some "MUST HAVE". Again you assume evolution and then
JM>
JM> Every science confirms evolution, Laurie. Surely you realize
JM> that despite your grasshopper mind.
LA> try to make the evidence 'FIT' your assumption. That is NOT
LA> the way of honest science!
JM>
JM> No, it's the way of CREATION science as has been endlessly
JM> drilled into everyone by now thanks to you and other
JM> creationists.
RM> There WAS life on this planet for 3,000,000,000 years or
RM> so before the start of the Cambrian.
LA> More dogmatic and unsupported ASSUMPTIONS - typical for
JM>
JM> Since you failed once again to document the reasons for your
JM> rephrasing of "IS NOT!" we can only assume you cannot support
JM> your own assumptions.
LA> most of evolutionary "science"! You do NOT know that the
LA> world is all that old anyway and and you don't know of ANY
JM>
JM> We are 99.999% sure it is, Laurie... your quotes from the
JM> technical journal notwithstanding. The reasons WHY we have that
JM> much confidence can be found in any public library, where all
JM> you need to learn anything is the reading comprehension level
JM> of at least a six year-old.
LA> ancestor/descent relationship between your alleged
LA> Pre-cambrian and the alleged Cambrian fossils!
JM>
JM> You have not read the available literature, or if you have your
JM> legendary reading comprehension skills have hindered your
JM> understanding of it.
LA> That is simply OUTSIDE of science and you must surely
LA> know it.
JM>
JM> YOU are the one outside of science, Laurie. "Wonderful Life"
JM> contains enough information to specifically show that it is
JM> very definitely science. A two hour car trip and a four hour
JM> hike from here is the raw data from the Burgess Shale. A 20
JM> minute drive away is the university library where every
JM> conceivable scientific test has been performed on the "data"
JM> and the results are publicly available.
JM>
JM> Your claim that it is "outside of science" is laughable, as
JM> usual. Anyone reading your words should be rolling in the isles
JM> if they haven't hit the Next key by now.
LA> "It is easy enough to make up stories of how one
JM>
JM> It's easy enough to make them up, but a lot harder to back them
JM> up. That's why people study these things rather than use
JM> outdated quotes like this one alleged to be of Patterson's.
LA> stories are NOT PART OF SCIENCE, for there is no way
LA> of putting them to the test."
LA> (Personal letter (written 10 April 1979) from Dr Colin
JM>
JM> There wasn't in 1979, but there is now. Those damned alleles
JM> keep shooting you down, Laurie. Don't you remember the accepted
JM> definition of biological evolution? The way to test it is to
JM> utilize it, which is what science does every day.
JM>
JM> All anti-evolutionists like yourself do is make yourselves look
JM> silly in public all the time. You're the KING of that.
JM>
JM> Tell us once again (in your own words this time) why allele
JM> frequency and DNA analysis does not put evolution to the test.
JM>
JM> John
JM>
JM>
JM> ... 13th Rule of Creationism: Never honestly answer direct questions.
Gee... and I didn't even have to change the tagline... B-})
John
... Smiley captioned for the irony impaired.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Larry Falcone
|Sub: Scopes was convicted!
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:15:36
EID:fbeb 2231b1e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fabc
REPLY: 1:282/108.0 8A68E2C1
Hi Larry...
On 03 Jan 97 22:39:00, Larry Falcone penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Scopes was convicted!
LF> I find it amazing that so very many people on both sides of the issue
LF> remember that Darrow lost the case and Scopes was convicted.
I find it amazing that you don't realize that he was convicted
of breaking the law as it was at the time. He DID break the
law, Larry.
I also find it amazing that people who argue this subject
haven't read and understood the Overton decision. You DO
understand it, don't you?
John
... Cretinism: creationism after you remove the Alpha (a) and Omega (o)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Special Pleading.
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:19:02
EID:a174 2231b260
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fabd
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8891302b
On 04 Jan 97 09:32:20, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Special Pleading.
RM> What the hell are you talking about? You think it's
RM> good science to use results that have been demonstrated to
RM> be WRONG? Please answer that question with a direct Yes or
RM> NO, so we can all tell exactly what your "science" looks
RM> like.
LA> Rick, nothing to do with evolution is "good science" at
Did anyone ever tell you that you were a fucking goofball,
Appleton?
LA> any time. Nothing ever "demonstrated" evolution and its
Allele frequency demonstrates it. As well, the "Laurie Law"
demonstrates it. Every time you post something the "Laurie Law"
says the meaning is actually reversed. Thanks for giving us the
proof once again.
LA> subsiduary claims to be wrong! Don't you know that evolution
LA> is supposed to be a FACT - "Like apples falling from trees"!
Yeah... don't you?
[...]
LA> (Creation Technical Journal, "The Failure of U-Th-Pb
Right... the "Journal of Faulty Science". They haven't made the
name change yet, eh?
John
... In the fight between you and the world, bet on the world - F. Zappa
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: test
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:24:44
EID:cf7e 2231b300
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e0fabe
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cc6ab8
Hi Dan...
On 03 Jan 97 02:11:04, Dan Ceppa penned the following to Martin Goldberg
re: test
DC> This a a test of OMX/BW & Terminate
Your tests came back... they're positive.
Now you'll have to go get your shots, you know... B-})
John
... I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:11:00
EID:f0c2 22331960
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22f16668
TID: GE/2 1.2
JJH> Howdy Krishna, Howdy Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Howdy Howdy...
Hey, Boys and Girls! Do you know what time it is?
* * * I T ' S H O W D Y K R I S H N A T I M E ! * * *
(cue theme music)
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:11:02
EID:6a43 22331960
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22f16669
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Al Schroeder
AS> I think Jesus was an incarnation of God. In that respect,
AS> he says, "Do as I said...and did."
DC> Like what? Organize a communistic community? Leave your
DC> family members behind? Attempt to violently take over a
DC> temple? Foment a revolt?
"Play the martyr."
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:11:02
EID:c5d3 22331960
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22f1666a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> No Pagan Moderators that are going to save anyone, either.
JJH>> No Jewish Moderators that are going to invest anyone.
JJH>> No Islamic Moderators that are going to foreclose anyone.
JJH>> No Bah'ia Moderators that are going to de'pos'it anyone.
RC> If Onan were the Moderator, would he withdraw?
JJH> (oh fuck... I've started another list...)
Pull out while you still can.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: TIGER EYES
|Sub: My sig line
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:11:04
EID:50bd 22331960
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22f1666b
TID: GE/2 1.2
TE> My conversation was with J.J., to be with, not the rest of you.
Didn't your parents tell you that this is a PUBLIC echo, in which
your messages are properly responded to by anyone who pleases?
Or were you simply thrown in without the least warning or preparation?
BTW, keep working on the grammar. It affects how people perceive you.
TE> J.J. and I could of handled it on our own, thank you all very much.
If you want a discussion with J.J. alone, take it to netmail. Anything
you post here is a message to everyone, no matter to whose particular
attention you might address it.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Matthew Hunt
|Sub: A Disciple for a Holyman
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:24:06
EID:091d 22334b00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2b1c1
REPLY: 1:170/604.0 32dd9323
Matthew Hunt said "A Disciple for a Holyman" to Don Martin, adding:
DR> wish that I had known you a while back when I was by myself
DR> dealing with Pagans and the like on VirtualNet. :)
MH> You have a problem with pagans?
You have a problem with reading? The quote above is by someone
with the initials "DR" and not by me (initials "DM").
MH> And why is pagan capitolized? A pagan is a person that isn't a
MH> follower of Christianity, Islam, or Buddha. It's not a religion
MH> unto itself...
You have a problem with pagans? Since when does capitalization,
a bit of orthographic trivia, elevate a belief system to a "religion
unto itself"? To the person _holding_ that (or any) belief system,
it probably is a "religion unto itself", with or without the
blessing of capitalization, and therefore none of my (or your)
business unless he attempts to impose his beliefs on anyone else by
force, deceit, or law.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:26:24
EID:1d6f 22334b40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2b1c2
DAVID RICE said "Literally Seaking" to JIM STAAL, adding:
>DR> By the way, the "first person" is nonsense: individuals
>DR> do not evolve---- populations do. The first humans were
>DR> a population of females and males.
JS> We agree. The first persons _were_ male and female.
DR> Your "English major" needs to be improved upon. The
DR> above should read "The first people were males and
DR> females."
So does his theology. It is my understanding of the Christian
mythos that the first person was their god. In some sects, A&E come
in 4th and 5th.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Death Cult Factions
|Date: 19 Jan 97 19:31:40
EID:3864 22339be0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2cebb
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 f7d9c5c4
Ed Mills said "Warring Christanic Death Cult Factions" to Fredric Rice,
adding:
EM> I know way too many people who make a lot more money than I
EM> do (which isn't difficult) and who do not know that our Sun
EM> is a star, or that hydrogen is the commonest element, blah
EM> blah blah. Some of these people have fairly sterling academic
EM> credentials, too. If that's what it means to have an MBA,
EM> then I'm glad I dropped out in the 11th grade.
Hate to sound like an academic snob (but there it is), but leave
us not confuse MBAs with real degrees. They are a sort of trade
union card, the attainment of which may involve considerable study
but no education whatsoever.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:00:06
EID:0482 2233a000
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2cebc
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dea885
Dan Ceppa said "One of yours?" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> People such as Bill and Melinda Gates, Paul Allen,
DC> [..]
DM> dwelling place off and on for several years have added
DM> to this harrassment and hate crime.
DC> About the only person not mentioned is the pope!
As the world's highest-ranking Official Celibate, His Holiness
must avoid being seen having sex with anyone else.
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.
DC> Please place a warning bell around her neck so I can avoid her!
With what? I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot thong.
Besides, you're closer!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:11:48
EID:210a 2233a160
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2cebd
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1f7781ec
ROBERT CURRY said "Celsus" to AL SCHROEDER, adding:
RC> Keep saving for that clue, Al. The cold fusion claims were
RC> made via a press release and public announcement before any
RC> scientific papers were published on it. So, yes, if any
RC> other "breakthroughs" are announced in the same way, they
RC> too should be held equally suspect.
AS> Guilty until proven innocent, you mean? ROFL!!!
RC> Unconfirmed until confirmed, actually. But don't let such a little
RC> thing like what people actually say prevent you from misrepresenting
RC> their remarks, Al. I wouldn't want you to strain yourself with
RC> modern notions of intellectual honesty.
Drug companies and other manufacturers are forever whining about
their products being considered "guilty until proven innocent" by
the regulatory process, as if this were some sort of injustice
contrary to American law. What they all hope that nobody will notice
is that, under that law, it is _persons_, and not things, that are
presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. Any attempt to cover
_things_ under that rubric is merely an attemmpt to deceive.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 20:36:18
EID:356f 2233a480
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e2cebe
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ ada6efe0
Sally Springett said "One of yours?" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are peeping
DM> in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall forward the
DM> information to her.
SS> It's interesting that she's being annoyed by people who do not
SS> regularly appear on the tube. She must be a reader.
SS> Do you get to respond to this pathetic soul? It's not easy, I know.
SS> I did it for a while for the President of the University of Chicago
SS> (a very long time ago when he was George Beadle).
SS> It's hard to say "We're really, really sorry you're crazy, Sir, but
SS> please stop sending us copies of your plans for solving world
SS> hunger by creating food with your incredible mental powers" in a
SS> way that stops the correspondence without actually sending the
SS> writer further 'round that tree he's up.
Ah, the challenges of PR! No, I don't get to answer her:
luckily, I have an editor above me who abrogates all the really
_important_ correspondence to herself. The best suggestion I have
had so far came from my wife, who suggested that the social services
mavens of Olympia be contacted. I tried to look some up on the net
but was unsuccessful. Waitaminnit! Somebody Maiden has recently
started posting on this echo. Perhaps she'll know. (I just hope that
she was not the writer of the letter when out from under the
handle.)
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Dig
|Date: 20 Jan 97 05:07:34
EID:ffd5 223428e0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e351f6
MB> I think it is vital, given today's slant on religion, that we do a
MB> bit of digging and find out what REALLY happened, as best we can.
Vital to what, you? Are you that interested in debunking peoples
belief systems? It would take a whole lot more than a dig or
thousands of digs to do that.
We already know you could care less about the sacred beliefs
of others concerning their dead.
MB> Go pick a fight with somebody whose posts you'vre read long enough
MB> to know where they REALLY STAND.
Glad to see you admitting to playing head games.
I have no doubt as to where you stand, I'm just glad I'm not standing
next to you.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 106/113 977 990 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 20 Jan 97 04:50:24
EID:7a14 22342640
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e34df0
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0cfcbae7
MB> No, Robert. He was ragging on them about their daughter's
MB> weight, which is definitely something they have little (if
MB> any) control over.
Lying sack of shit? What language! How womanly of you!
A weeks wages says you are obese. Most folks who over-react as you did
and leap to the rescue generally have the same issues in their own lives.
Is that what all this anger is about, all the pushing around and shaming
comments you make to people? What a shame, you obviously have some good
stuff in your being, but its so tainted with all that angry baggage you're
carrying.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 106/113 977 990 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Orion?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:16:32
EID:cc93 22326200
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 5b5a63b1
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da18
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Fredric utter:
qf>> I already have a goat idol on top
qf>> of my computer. But mine's ceramic. :)
FR> You lucky bastard!!! Send him to me! }:-}
I got it from Judith. Maybe, if you ask reeeeeeeeeeal nicely, she'll send
you
one, too. :)
... +Origin: John Braaaaaawley's Quantum Sheep Ranch.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: another one
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:38:40
EID:b62b 223264c0
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 2508f30e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ddc25a
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Rod utter:
RS> Didn't the bible also say that parents should execute their
RS> annoying and rebellious children? And wouldn't this make the
RS> above quote a contradiction?
Yeah. So what? There's lots. :)
... Al's Vet & Taxidermy: Either way, you get your dog back.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Re: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:02:30
EID:74c3 22326840
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 a358d36b
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 778cc7d1
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Ed utter:
EM> Better check your mitts for stigmata.
AAAHHH!!! AAAHHH!!! STIGMATA!!!
No, wait.. that's just a cat scratch.
... iT's HarD tO tYPe WHilE HolDiNG a cAT!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:29:40
EID:9883 223383a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e24e63
REPLY: 1:3603/210 223f734f
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Jan 97 02:40, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
GTP>> The "lie" is that he "simply pointed out". He did alot more
GTP>> than that.
DW>> What "more" did I do, Gwen?
RC> It had something to do with twinkies, didn't it?
Twinkies qualify as a lot more? From the way Gwen is going on, you'd think
I tried to rape the poor girl.
RC> But she's gone away for a while.
I noticed. I'm not too happy about that, but I guess we all have our crosses
to bear.
RC> In the meantime, could I interest you in a Steingrobe?
Only if you pay me to take him.
RC> He wants to be verbally spanked, and you seem qualified to help him.
Yeah, I know. He still shows up in #atheism from time to time, looking for
martyr points. I saw his first post here from Dave's board, but have seen
nothing since.
I think he actually dislikes you more than he dislikes me, though. Something
about you being impolite and manipulative, if memory serves. I guess I'll
have to try harder.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:47:20
EID:a166 223385e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e2504c
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32d6568b
PID: GED3 2.5
09 Jan 97 10:22, Sue Armstrong wrote to Katherine Wintersnight:
SA> Yeesh. Well, we're getting ours - payback for all the nice,
SA> unnaturally warm weather we've been having. It's now blizzarding
SA> outside, and it's expected that we'll have almost 2 feet of snow by
SA> the time it's over. :(
Remember how I said Canadians couldn't even do winter right?
The high here Tuesday is supposed to be in the low 60's. Nyah! :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:08:28
EID:0644 2233b100
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e29ba3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e14c2c
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Jan 97 17:18, Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer:
P> But no, He shall be coming, and very soon.. But even if it wasn't
P> true, so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what if
P> non-Christians are wrong? What do they lose? A great deal more..
Pascal's Wager *again*?
Can't you morons come up with *anything* new?
Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other possible gods? Don't you
think they're gonna be a little pissed that you spent your life worshipping
Jehovah?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:15:46
EID:9763 2233b1e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e29d31
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e15eb4
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Jan 97 23:37, Dan Ceppa wrote to Glen Todd:
GT>> Hey, the thumpers never provide any evidence supporting their
GT>> claims. Why should we have to?
DC> You do realize where that 'logic' you just stated places you?
I seriously doubt that. He ain't too bright sometimes.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:22:36
EID:5f7a 2233b2c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e29f1c
REPLY: 1:123/67 32e1ce1c
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Jan 97 07:30, Shelby Sherman wrote to David Worrell:
SS> Did they send you a "nekkid" gif of the svelte little nymph?
Nope. There is an image file on the Todd web page that I suspect is her,
though.
DW>> All hell broke loose. Gwen called me a small-dicked
DW>> misogynist.
SS> So? What's the problem?
No problem at all here, other than having to get stitches for this busted
gut.
DW>> Marilyn Burge called me evil.
SS> You are the very embodiment of evil. I'm proud of you.
DW>> I've had a great deal of fun.
SS> That is the sole purpose of these echos. If you really want to have
SS> fun, let me send you ANIMAL_RIGHTS. It's a fucking hoot.
Send it on...
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 19 Jan 97 22:26:14
EID:36bc 2233b340
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e29f9d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cf5752
PID: GED3 2.5
16 Jan 97 19:44, Martin Goldberg wrote to David Worrell:
MG>>> I will. I just need to find better targets than helpless
MG>>> pagans.
DW>> One takes what one can get.
MG> You should a/f Flame and watch as the morons are taken apart.
I've lurked in Flame before. You've got no right disparaging my choice of
targets when you shred some of the lameasses that I've seen in there. :)
MG> The last one got a pizza sent to his house at midnight just for being
MG> a fool.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bill Wolff: silly guy!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:19:56
EID:f0b1 22337260
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e22d8d
-> On 16 Jan 97 14:56:38, Martin Goldberg got back to Mark Kimes
MG> Billy is one amazing guy. When present evidence of his lies, he
MG> ignores them and goes on to tell us that he has been a big, bad,
MG> atheist all along and that we had him all wrong. He's been busted so
MG> many times in the past few months that he looks like Madonna's pussy.
Jesus fucking christ, Marty! I'm reading this before breakfast.
That's so disgusting...but so aptly stated!
I'll head out to the diner, next week, maybe, if my appetite ever
comes back...
LOL!
... "Bother," said Pooh, as he kneed Christopher Robin in the groin.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Ceppa has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:27:38
EID:4ad6 22337360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e22f5b
-> On 15 Jan 97 12:09:49, Martin Goldberg got back to Bill Wolff
MG> You are a liar. Carl does not believe in any designer. Read the
MG> gawddamned article again illy.
.......... ^
Nice typo, Martin! By far, your best ever!
... I said a BUD LIGHT!" - J. d'Arc
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:32:54
EID:28b9 22337400
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e23097
-> On 18 Jan 97 12:28:48, Patriot got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker with a car
Jd> purchase?
Pa> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should actually be
Pa> the pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the ride.
That explains why your car looks like it's been recycled already.
... "The Church" can't manage their own affairs, but they want to run ours
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:39:28
EID:1248 223374e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e23220
-> On 18 Jan 97 12:12:42, Patriot got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
Pa> And what do we base this on? That he fell? That he made a mistake?
Pa> Or could it just be because he is a man of God that you disagree with?
No, it's all based on the fact that Swaggart is a lying sack of
shit that uses his religion as an exuse to continue to be a
lying sack of shit.
What's your excuse?
... DEAD BABIES GO TO HELL. -- Psalms 58:3
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:46:44
EID:bbf0 223375c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e233d4
-> On 17 Jan 97 21:40:06, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAVID WORRELL
RC> It had something to do with twinkies, didn't it? But she's gone away
RC> for a while. In the meantime, could I interest you in a Steingrobe?
Just what is a "Steingrobe"? Seen his name bandied about here,
but never ran into him on the Echoes.
My guess is that he's a ping-pong ball attempting to play on
a tennis court.
... +Origin: John Brawely's Quantum Bait Shop and Used Car Lot
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Lee W. Take up a collect
|Date: 19 Jan 97 17:16:08
EID:7976 22338a00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e256d9
-> On 18 Jan 97 09:01:00, Lee Woofenden got back to Fredric Rice
FR> Convention, I would pay up big bucks to the contribution. The MGM
FR> Grand Hotel should be tall enough.
LW> I hereby donate all money contributed to the jackpot of my contest
LW> challenging anyone to explain the relevance of the experiment.
Hey everyone! It should be the greatest convention ever in
Las Vegas.
Lee's going to perform Hector's Experiment at the MGM Grand.
Just think of the world-wide coverage that the event will
get.
World Wrestling Foundation, move over. Concrete pillow jumping is
about to replace you.
Happy landings, Lee.
... Nothing is impossible for anyone impervious to reason.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 20 Jan 97 00:39:04
EID:accc 223404e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2bea9
-> On 18 Jan 97 06:01:00, Lee Woofenden got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Now, Lee, state here that there is no evidence that your god
DC> exists.
LW> In my opinion, there is and can be no _scientific_ evidence
LW> demonstrating that God exists. I've stated this many times, Dan. And
LW> since scientific evidence seems to be the only kind you accept, this
LW> statement will do for you, won't it? Let me know.
Of course it does. It means you believe in something that
doesn't exist.
LW> I don't _need_ to believe in God in the sense you seem to be using
LW> that word. I _choose_ to believe in God. I could decide not to believe
LW> in God any time I wanted to. But instead I choose to believe in God.
However, you are afraid to face reality. Instead, you cower in
fear from what isn't there.
... Do YOU trust a religion that won't obey it's OWN laws?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 00:45:42
EID:affa 223405a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2c037
-> On 18 Jan 97 06:29:00, Lee Woofenden got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Lee, just how long have your actually read messages here? The
DC> only ones that post non-scientific theories and call them "theories"
DC> are fundys.
LW> This is not a science debate echo. It is a religion debate echo.
Too, bad. You are outnumbered. This Echo is not about theological
bullshit but the debunking of it.
LW> Therefore, it should not be assumed that any theory presented is a
LW> scientific theory unless stated otherwise.
You seemed to have wandered into the wrong Echo. You want the
Bunnies and Lights Echo down the halway, on your right.
LW> Spelling note: "fundys" should be spelled "fundies," following
LW> standard English rules for forming plurals.
The word is standard practice here, fundy. Deal with it.
... More people have been killed for religion than for any other cause.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ...
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:03:24
EID:641c 22340860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2c45d
-> On 16 Jan 97 08:57:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>After all, if it doesn't work for a godling, why should it
DC>work for mere mortals?
RV> Bet a beer, Al's answer has a 'BUT' hidden in there somewhere.
It's easier to hide one of than than an, "I not!"
... Hindu to Christian: "How many *times* have you been born-again?"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:10:34
EID:9321 22340940
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2c60a
-> On 18 Jan 97 16:13:16, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
LW>> spiritual and not material, science is the wrong tool for the job.
DC> What would you suggest, Lee? Holding a sance?
MK> ROFL! Lee wants you to call a psychic hotline, of course. Or,
MK> better, just take his word for it.
He now claims that this is really an Echo to debate his
religion's theology. I wonder when he'll bring up the
part about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
The neatest part is that he's taken to spending over 2/3 of
his post giving me grammar lessons and ignoring the topic
at hand.
MK> Evidence is a dirty word if you don't have any.
It sure is, as he thinks that we have to stick to his version
of what a theory is. Best I can figure is that his version
doesn't require any of those pesky facts to make it true.
... +Origin: Railroad Network: Plain loco and no motive for Jizzus!!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Free Willy
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:17:46
EID:2300 22340a20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2c7ba
-> On 17 Jan 97 11:10:18, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> cold house in front of an open fireplace with a great Yiddish
Jd> Bah. Humbug! Harumpph. Certainly hope you were celebrating the
Jd> furnace failure, NOT christmas! Whatsa Yiddish amatala.....escort
Jd> service? -<:-}
It was in celebration of the dead furnace and finding interesting
ways to keep warm.
A Yiddish amatala is a Jewish girl. And, a very warm one on
that cold night, I might add!
... Mr. Brawley appears courtesy of the Gleep Planetary Federation.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:23:20
EID:10f8 22340ae0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2c909
-> On 17 Jan 97 23:57:13, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
DC> GOYHIM! GOYHIM! CIRCUMCISE HIM!
ML> GYPSUM! GYPSUM! PLASTER HIM!
DC> GRASS! GRASS! SMOKE'M!
ML> GAROU! GAROU! MOON HIM!
DC> GEESE! GEESE! GOOSE HIM!
ML> GROUSE! GROUSE! BITCHIN'
DC> GOOD! GOOD! GIVE HIM THAT!
ML> GOD! GOD! GIVE 'EM THAT INSTEAD!
GADS! GADS! FLY HIM!
... "With enough statistics, I'll show that RI is bigger than Texas" MMag
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
2424/10
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:30:58
EID:dc21 22340bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2cad3
-> On 17 Jan 97 17:30:20, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Then, why did he bring the whip? Also, the tables were legal in
DC> the temple. He had no right to disrupt a legal gathering.
JF> Umm... He DIDN'T bring a whip. Read the Bible! I don't know who's
JF> telling you lies, but they have to stop. You must belong to one of
Yes, they should. Those lies were taught to me by my minister.
JF> those cults which recruits extremely gullible people. Legality only
No, I was religious, then I got better.
JF> goes so far. Don't forget, in Nazi Germany it was "legal" to round
up
JF> Jews and slaughter them.
Nazi Germany learned it bigotry via xianity.
JF> order," so to speak, but it beats the heck out of going to the temple
JF> and killing all the vendors there. Besides - a temple is a place of
JF> worship, not the local shopping mall.
Got news for you: You're wrong.
DC> Bullshit. Your godling was there for the Jews. It was Saul who
DC> decided to branch out to the Gentiles and adopt Gentile ways.
JF> Why do you keep referring to Jesus as a godling? He was (or rather,
JF> IS) God come down to Earth as a human. I'm not referring to the books
So, who was he praying to in the Garden?
... "Santa Claus: Another evil pagan myth." Kit Ballantyne
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of