God Damned Fundies!
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:04:00
EID:105b 22346080
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Sarcasm here is more like "Fucking moron".
RM>
RM> Naw, that's just plain old personal invective. Sarcasm takes at least
RM> a little bit of wit.
Probably why it's somewhat scarce here, then...
RM> It wasn't evidence that supports the hypothesis that the universe is
RM> understandable, only that things fall with the same acceleration.
But if we do not observe consistent behavior in such things as falling
objects, the universe would not be understandable. Thus repeatable
observations of all sorts support the hypothesis.
RH> We assume that patterns exist, we look and find patterns, everyone
RH> finds the same patterns, and you think that's not evidence?
RM> And we can all see the turtle in that cloud over there, right? I
Now that you point it out. But that is not the sort of pattern I'm
talking about.
RM> mean, our minds are capable of seeing patterns in random data, and
RM> agreeing on the pattern that we see there. Doesn't mean that the
RM> pattern is real.
RM> Ever hear of backward masking?
As in "you see what you're looking for"?
RM> It is still not properly understood. But the existence of that
RM> observation never caused ANYONE to abandon the assumption that the
RM> universe is basically understandable.
Bad example. turbulent flow is commonly observed and horrendously
complicated, but not the sort of thing I was talking about. I meant
something like the acceleration of a falling body changing each time
we measured it.
RM> Oh? You think that we understand most of the physical universe? Even
RM> a large percentage of it? I think most scientists would say we've
RM> just scratched the surface. And even then, all of the "evidence" you
RM> refer to -
RM> our scientific understanding of the universe - is BASED on this
RM> assumption, and therefore can't really be considered as evidence in
RM> favour
RM> of the assumption. Especially since we choose not to investigate the
RM> very phenomena that might show the assumption is false - the ones
RM> (like turbulence) that appear beyond our curent ability to understand.
I would take a more liberal approach and say that the basic laws
that function at our level are well understood and apply to the entire
universe (excepting black holes, singularities, etc).
RM> You clearly accept the hypothesis that the universe is understandable
RM> as true (ie. believe in it in the common meaning of the term
RM> "believe"). Whether that belief is based on evidence or faith is what
RM> we are discussing. So far, it looks more like unevidenced belief to
RM> me, but you may still have some arguments that might change my mind.
I begin to doubt it. Want to play the "brain in a bottle" game next?
RM> I like to make a distinction between three types of belief: scientific
RM> (for lack of a better word) belief, faith and superstition. All
RM> three involve accepting something as true (ie. belief), the difference
RM> lies
RM> in the basis of that acceptance. Scientific belief is based on
RM> confirming evidence, faith is unevidenced belief, and superstition
RM> is belief that persists in spite of contrary evidence.
The last two are redundant IMHO.
RM> I think that acceptance of the truth of the statement that things fall
RM> at the same acceleration is scientific belief. Acceptance that there
RM> is a Creator is faith. Acceptance that the Creator made the entire
RM> universe in
RM> 6 days in 4004 BC is superstition.
Ditto.
RM> It appears to me that you lump what I call faith and superstition
RM> together and call that "belief". This could be a cause of
RM> misunderstanding with people who use the term "belief" in a more
RM> standard way. What term do you apply to what I'd call scientific
RM> belief - the acceptance of something as true based on the available
RM> evidence?
RM> The belief that the universe is understandable is clearly not
RM> superstition
RM> (ie. there is no evidence against it). But I've yet to see any direct
RM> evidence in favour of it - in fact, I can't think of what such
RM> evidence might look like, so, provisionally, I'd have to put it in
the
RM> "faith" category.
Word games. You are just juggling definitions to prove your case.
... The worst thing about censorship is лллллллллл and it лллллллллллллл!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: MAN OVERBOARD!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:41:00
EID:3c35 22346520
-=> Quoting Jan Deboer to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> There are no Christians in crowded lifeboats, Al. The proper
RH> solution is to take a vote and throw out the biggest asshole .
JD> The solution to the lieboat dilemna has been played out many times
JD> in reruns of old mouldy B&W movies on latenite television.
JD> Surely you have not escaped this unique educational medium?
JD> The simple solution is to let the eleven occupants of the lifeboat
JD> take turns, one at a time, of leaving the boat and hanging on to the
JD> gunwale, thus relieving the overcrowding.
JD> This is also called 'delegating responsibility', since the sharks will
JD> now decide who should go.
JD> The selection methodology can be either the drawing of straws, or
JD> alpahbetical order. The choice invariably hinges on whether the
JD> individual suggesting this solution is named Allen, or Zimmerman.
Your way will work, but mine has more long-term benefits to the species.
JD> PS....isn't someone here outfitting a sailboat?....
Yes, but we try to ignore lunatics...
... What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!?
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:52:00
EID:36f5 22346680
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Roger Hunter <=-
RH>There's a big article in today's Camera on the witches of Boulder.
RH>Sounds like we're infested with them....
KW> How many covens make an infestation, and do solitaries count?
Varies with the person asked. The article mentioned gatherings
of 300 or so IIRC.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:53:00
EID:e67c 223466a0
-=> Quoting Glen Todd to Roger Hunter <=-
GT> That's what you get for listening to Christians. 'Sides which, if
we
GT> were really sacrificing Christian babies (who'd want to make them
GT> sacred anyway?) there wouldn't be nearly so many allegedly adult
GT> Christians out making everybody's lives miserable.
I'd consider that a fringe benefit, myself.
... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: WHY DON'T WE SEE GOD[
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:01:00
EID:c57f 22346820
-=> Quoting Jan Deboer to Lee Woofenden <=-
LW> In the Bible alone there are perhaps a dozen detailed
LW> accounts of encounters with God[sic], and many more
LW> passing references.
JD> Then WHY does the bible say, in John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any
JD> time" ?????
JD> Does your god LIE in the bible?
Then why does Genesis 32:30 say "Jacob named the place Peniel
(The Face of God), for he said, 'I have seen God face to face,
and yet my life is spared'."
... I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:45:00
EID:be4f 223385a0
-=> Quoting Shelby Sherman to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> So what is 1 - (-1) above? Why, it's -one-.
SS> Jesus......you're almost as bad as Bait Boy. (shaking head)
HAHAHAHAHA
That swooshing sound you heard was my argument hitting Mach 2
just above your head.
Missed the last sentence of that post, didn't you?
... Even if you understood women - you'd never believe it!
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: more babbling Al
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:00
EID:861b 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361f5
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Perhaps you should ask him that, since he addresses me
AS> a question IN THIS VERY PACKET.
CJ> What?
CJ> I addressed him a question?
How talented of you. Most people simply ask a question. It takes
a special kind of person to "address" a question. Al has some really
weird way of distorting reality, creating a personal pseudo-reality.
CJ> I caught your , so you read what Al tells you was a
CJ> question from me.
Indeed. A sarcastic comment on his stupid remark about Socrates being
"the first philosopher" -- it still makes me laugh to think about it.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Native HolySmokers
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:00
EID:122c 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361f6
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW>> As for those that didn't leap to my defense, I have
DW>> a long memory. :)
RC> A reference, I presume, to the old adage that elephants
RC> never forget.
DW> Hey! Leave my weight out of this!
Weight? I wasn't aware that Republicans had a weight limit.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 19 Jan 97 10:01:00
EID:5ce9 22335020
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396d7
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, George Mooth cast Our Daily Bread at Rod Swift ..
and all hell broke loose.
RS>I'm bent, and my "tree" grows when I see your cute ass, Mooth! :) :)
GM> There you go again - being a mental slave to Satan. When will you
GM> choose to be free and not a slave?
When will you stop spamming the echo with your useless canned
drivel?
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "These people would fight with their own image in a mirror." - FRice
--- GEcho 1.11+
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fucking clowns
|Date: 19 Jan 97 10:11:00
EID:744d 22335160
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396d8
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Fredric Rice cast Fucking clowns at Dan Ceppa ..
and all hell broke loose.
RB> And please keep your vile language to yourself.
DW> Ignorant fundy clown.
dc> Point of order: Shouldn't that be "Ignorant fucking fundy clown"?
FR> So _that's_ where clowns come from! The fundy circus!
Interestingly enough, White Wolf has a book supplement for all it's
core World of Darkness-based games called "Midnight Circus", about a
circus that roams the world spreading evil and corruption. Perhaps
this is the aforesaid fundy circus .. :)
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "I think I'm getting smarter on this show - must be the beer, eh?"
--- GEcho 1.11+
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 19 Jan 97 11:07:02
EID:1481 223358e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396d9
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Mimi Milstein cast GET SPECIFIC at Chris Green ..
and all hell broke loose.
CG> So predatory species, in the main, do not wage war?
AS> Yes. Oh, there are challenges within the pack, for instance, but
AS> usually its more threat than actual combat. For one species to war on
AS> itself, there are very few instances...man and ants come mainly to
AS> mind, but there are a few others. The highly social and territorial
AS> animals. (Geese are social, for instance, and defend their personal
AS> space, but their space can vary. And they do not wage war.)
CG> I was thinking of chimpanzees. Richard Attenborough's done
CG> a TV series, 'Nature's Cannibals'.
MM> Jane Goodall also mentions chimpanzee 'murderers' and 'tribal
MM> warfare' in her books, incidents NOT related to territorial
MM> battles. Sounded more like 'I don't like your face'.
And she recorded at least one incident that sounded like sheer
spite.
Part of one troop split off, and took a territory close by the
original troop. The larger troop didn't seem to appreciate this,
and so repeatedly raided the splinter troop until they were all
dead.
Separatistes of the animal kingdom. :)
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... The CBC: Where making a Farce is what they do best!
--- GEcho 1.11+
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Jesus is BACK!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:01:02
EID:735a 22336820
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396da
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Mimi Milstein cast Jesus is BACK! at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> [...] While one might expect this Jesus guy to return to
SA> such places, rather than, say, Utah, (though why he should pick the
SA> US at all is beyond me) I would think that if the "miracles"
SA> purported in the tabloid were really happening, someone other than
SA> the Sun would have bothered to report it.
MM> Here is at least one guy who considered the possibility, and did
MM> something serious about it:
MM> When Ernest Digweed, a Portsmouth UK recluse, died in 1977 he
MM> stipulated in his will that proceeds from his investments,
MM> worth about 350,000 Pounds, should go to Jesus Christ if he
MM> reappeared on Earth before the year 2000. He would have to
MM> prove his identity (not stated how) in order to claim the money.
MM> It was subsequently reported in 1981 that two claimants had
MM> already tried but failed.
ROFL!
MM> The Public Trustees Office decided in the meantime to award
MM> the estate to 2 distant cousins with the advice that they
MM> should seek appropriate insurance coverage, just in case the
MM> will had to be honored.
Somehow, I don't think there's much danger in that happening. :P
The cousins can enjoy their dough.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "Take THAT, _Creation of Man_!"
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Public Service Ads
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:24:04
EID:c4c8 22339300
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396db
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Fredric Rice cast Public Service Ads at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Say, has anyone noticed, in those dippy "Worth waiting for"
SA> abstinance ads, the teenagers portrayed are all female?
JB> New package, same old double standard. Boys will be boys (wink, wink,
JB> nudge, nudge) but girls MUST BE VIRGINS when they marry (or they never
JB> will).
sa> Uh-huh.
FR> I can remember a Mormon master telling all the kids in the class
FR> (every one of us male) that we didn't want to marry "a pin cushion"
--
FR> his words -- and that we would rather want to marry virgins. This
FR> particular cultist was highly touted by the other brats in the "class"
FR> as being "cool" because he "didn't mince words." In fact both David
FR> and I looked at each other during this particular talk and agreed that
FR> the guy was a common fool and the typical liar employing the audacity
Hehehe. "You want this! You just don't know it yet!"
FR> of telling us what we wanted and what we didn't want.
FR> It may have been at that "class" that David made the comment that it
FR> makes no difference if someone marries a virgin or a prostitute. I
FR> opine that geting maried to a woman who has experience is of great
FR> benefit over marriage to someone who has none. I'll further opine
FR> that when I buy a car I bloody well drive it first to make sure it's
FR> the one I want. Women and marriages should be treated better that
FR> cars.
Well, I can go for that, at least. :)
Besides, it might behoove a woman also to "test drive" the man as it
were; what if he turns out to be .. er .. too rough, or into things
you don't like? (the same goes vice-versa as well).
JB> I've never figured out where the boys were supposed to get their
JB> experience if the girls preserved their 'honor'.
sa> Hmm. Perhaps they're supposed to get it with each other?
FR> That'll work! Or they do what that guy in New York did --
FR> shoot a deer and, while it's bleeding to death, rape it. (True story;
FR> someone posted an article here in HolySmoke, any way.)
Ew. Talk about being doubly sick. Let me guess; this guy got off
with just a fine, if that, right?
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... *KA-BOOOOOOM!* ... Whatever that was, I hope it's on _our_ side ...
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Public Service Ads [1/2]
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:43:04
EID:9868 22339560
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396dc
TID: GE 1.11+
>>> Part 1 of 2...
Making a good die roll, Fredric Rice cast Public Service Ads at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
JS> Was talking with a female modemer in her late 40s about the behaviors
JS> of many of the local teenagers, who are most of the callers to the
JS> local BBSes. She mentioned that many teenagers today, in her opinion,
JS> didn't know how to say "no" to sex.
FR> "...today..." ?! It was only a couple of hundred years ago that
FR> children routinely gave birth during their teens and the average
FR> lifetime of a woman was 35. Infant mortality was (and still is
FR> somewhat) quite high in the United States. I don't have anything in
FR> the archives which gives values for Europeans yet the pioneer
FR> foundings of the United States, at least, indicate that to live to the
FR> age of 50 was uncommon.
Right; it's only relatively recently that kids didn't get married by
age 16.
FR> _Not_ engageing in sexual behavior during the teen years was a late
FR> comer to social dysfunctionality. Fundies like to pretend that the
FR> number of unwed mothers has increased since 1965 -- the year the
FR> Constitution was upheld and occultism was officially thrown out of the
FR> public schools; also the year that free milk was discontinued. The
FR> fact is that there has been no change in the number of unwed mothers
FR> BY PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION.
It's just that, in the 50s and before, unwed mothers were sent away
where they didn't have to be seen or heard from. Or the young unwed
mother was forced into a shotgun marriage by Daddy as soon as he
found out.
FR> Somewhere in this mountain of text files there is a report that
FR> bounced through HolySmoke or Church&State covering this. It seems
FR> that the census was different in various ways and that the number of
FR> unwed mothers being reported or known to welfare services was lower
in
FR> decades past -- but the percentage of children fucking each other and
FR> giving birth has remained the same.
And before welfare came into existence, they were still either sent
away to state homes, nunneries, or other warehouses.
sa> Yeah, right. If she keeps falling "in love", then pretty soon, her
sa> hormones are gonna get the better of her and she's going to fall
sa> "really truly in love" and bingo, bango, bongo. If she hasn't
sa> already, and just isn't admitting to it.
FR> Denial of sex urges is bizarre. My guess is that only humans have
FR> created behavior which seeks to negate the reproduction urge. (Or
FR> pretend to.)
Well, no, not really. Lower-ranking lupines in a pack don't
generally "get it", either, unless they leave the pack (and
non-alpha couples mating and producing offspring usually find their
cubs destroyed by the alpha female) .. and other social species also
limit reproduction to elder females. It would seem that marriage
is, in effect, a ritualisation (that humans can understand) of this
phenomenon .. if every pack, troop, or group member bred at every
heat, there'd soon be too many for the population to support them
all. Pacific Islanders overtly used marriage as a way of defining
who had a right to have children, as a form of population control;
children of unwed mothers were killed. Islands are simply too small
to allow for unrestrained breeding of large mammals like humans.
IOW, it's originally a form of birth CONTROL.
It would rather seem that, especially in the Judaeo-Christian view,
this concept has been turned on its head. Marriage was encouraged
for all, and resulting high breeding rates were also encouraged; and
people were married off as young as possible. The move from the
extended family to the nuclear family is likely a big cause of the
skyrocketing of the population over human history. Of course, the
unwed were still discouraged from having children, but the reason
for this seems to have been forgotten, and put in wrongful
moralistic terms.
Of course, nowadays, it shouldn't really matter - the availability
of artificial birth control technology negates, more or less, the
restriction against the unwed having intercourse. However, fundies
don't see the bigger picture, and refuse to give teens not only
the information on available birth control techniques, but also
don't want to give kids the weapons of logic and mature thinking in
order to help them decide for themselves what to do with
themselves. All they want to do is send them on guilt trips, which
never works.
JS> Doesn't all that "Jesus" stuff at least have the value of allowing
JS> those who wish to abstain to have a ready excuse and ideology for
JS> abstenance? IOW, isn't fundamentalist Christianity at least useful
JS> for that?
sa> No.
FR> And why would anyone who doesn't wish to fuck need an excuse not to?
FR> Can't he just smack her and say, "Look, Suzy, get your mouth off of
FR> that!?" (Sorry, as you can see I'm having fun with this.)
FR> }:-}
:) Hehehe. Really; why should someone need an excuse if they don't
want to? If you don't want to, you don't want to. Of course, it
doesn't help when you have peer pressure trying to say you're a nerd
if you don't get it every night (but then again, the people who say
that probably don't really get it at all, either).
sa> And we can never forget Christian Miller
sa> with his "Married, Will Cheat" conference ..
FR> Hey, I forgot about that.
:)
sa> denizens certainly don't go just to look at each other. There were
sa> a couple of big fights out on the main street this summer, over who
sa> got to lay what woman - from the description in the paper, anyway.
FR> Typical primate behavior. Alpha males aren't willing to take turns.
FR> It's why they want to have virgins and why some women/gurls learn to
FR> say, "Gee, Billy, I've never done this before. Please be gentle."
Hehehehehe. :)
sa> And it's likely not limited to teenagers, either. I suspect many
sa> 20-somethings (and 30-somethings, for that matter) act the same way.
sa> I just have the habit of assuming that anyone who behaves this way
sa> electronically has got to be about 15 or 16.
FR> Check out Holland in the summertime. Age has no limits when it comes
FR> to trying to win the sexual favors of a female. It seems that perhaps
FR> here in the United States people over 40 fear looking the damn fool.
Oh, yeah, a lot of these goombahs probably are realtively old. In
fact, when I was hawking my 'toons at the market a couple of weeks
ago, this old man who HAD to have been 90 wandered up and asked me
what it was about. I told him, and then he asked "Is there any sex
in it?" I replied, "No, sir, I try to keep it PG. I don't have much
use for the dirty stuff, and besides, it's been done to death." He
WALKED AWAY, apparently no longer interested in a purchase.
I'm political, but I don't need to show big boobs on furry critters,
sorry. It took all my effort to keep from laughing until I got
home. Though I'm not sure if I was laughing at the idea of such an
old man looking for manga, or at myself for assuming telling him
there's no sex in it would be a positive selling point just because
he was, well, older than Methuselah.
Of course, then there was the 16 year old who showed up on
#holysmoke last night and started bragging about his "big rhino
dick" ...
>>> Continued to next message...
--- GEcho 1.11+
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Public Service Ads [2/2]
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:43:06
EID:dc68 22339560
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396dd
TID: GE 1.11+
>>> Part 2 of 2...
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... The Illuminati don't exist. And Mr Bean is our leader.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Erik Vandervort
|Sub: Pussy little satanist
|Date: 19 Jan 97 19:11:06
EID:4a53 22339960
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32e396de
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Erik Vandervort cast Pussy little satanist at Al
Schroeder .. and all hell broke loose.
AS> A> EV>> do you hate queers?
AS> A>> Yes, but I also hate fundies, niggers, spics, gooks, wops, moosepumpers
AS> A>> krauts, micks, sand niggers, limeys, nips, prairie niggers, kikes,
AS> A>> ragheads, chinks, and, especially, illiterates. Shemhamforash!
Hail
AS> A>> Satan!
AS> And trolls? Do you hate trolls, also?
EV> Don't forget the elves, wyverns, brownies, and Shoggoths.
Not to mention he could have saved a lot of bandwidth by just using
that good old British standby, "wogs". :P
And hey! Brownies are cool.
"We are not afraid of you!" - Willow
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "I stole the baby while you were taking a pee-pee!" - Willow
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:02
EID:96d1 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361f7
TID: GE/2 1.2
JJH> Have you seen the picture on their web page?
No.
JJH> I'm dropping out of the banter on this one because the fun has
JJH> gone out it. The situation is genuinely tragic.
As the thread has not been shroederized, it may die a natural death.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: babbling Al
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:02
EID:6302 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361f8
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Congratulations on your falling flat on your face. Too bad for
AS> you that Curtis asked me a question in this very packet. ROFL!!!
CJ> I dunno, Robert, what do you think that he was deliberately
CJ> misrepresenting my reply as an attempt to try and troll me
CJ> into replying to him so that he could then try and Schoederize
CJ> me into how my response was actually a question?
I think he has become so accustomed to believing his own bullshit
that when he completely distorts the truth, it "feels like" reality
to him.
BTW, this topic arose on IRC recently.
Here's an amusing selection from my #holysmoke log file:
I just thought it funny you saying Curtis would no longer
post to me...when in that same packet, he DID.
When did I say he wouldn't post to you? I said -- correctly --
that he was disgusted and alienated by you.
Curry: are you confused, Curry? You accused me of being
proud of alienating him...well, if he is so alientated, he
wasn't alienated enough not to post to me.
Al, you are fixated on something I never said. I never
mentioned him "not posting to you"
yea...alienated people NEVER interact, curry....because
if they DID it would be war, and we don't war with aliens!
Lynda is determined to kill me (and any innocent bystanders) with
induced fits of laughter, I sometimes think. Then again, she can
become quite serious, as well. See the following two posts for one
example, a longer selection.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: babbling bullshitter 1/2
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:04
EID:1340 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361f9
TID: GE/2 1.2
--Edited to improve clarity (for unabridged log, email curry@gte.net)--
But Curry, you are boring. keep this to fidonet, would
you? We are boring Catty and Jason.
no he's NOT!
I'm not bored.
keep going!
More! More! More!
fight! fight!!
Al, you're scared.
Jump, al! jump!
JHarmon puts that Star Trek fight music on.
I'm shaking in my boots. LOL!!!
Your bullshit is quivering a bit, I see.... yes. A description
more apt does not come to mind. Horseshit, maybe? Jesus shit?
er, no, al....you ARE a bullshitter.
Your cowardice at refusing to look at simple books is
showing, Curry.
Books? Did Curtis write a book all of a sudden? Why the change
in subject, Al?
Catty: you are entitled to your opinion.
Why not?
Yes, i am
Curry...he wrote a book, but it was in email so it's
private.
Why can't you stick to the subject of Curtis, Al?
heh-heh.
Why don't you quote where I said he was NOT disgusted...
specifically.
Al, all I have is one question for you:
I bet.
Do you admit that he was both disgusted and alienated by you?
He may have been. So what?
This is what I asked, essentially, in the post that you
decided was "funny" because he "replied to you in the
same packet."
He's a big boy. He can post, or not post to me, as he
pleases...
Actually, he has stated as much explicitly.
Was it your goal to alienate him?
Uh uh uh. You said ONE question.
One at a time.
It suits you to think he thought you were just dandy
until you decided to turn your nose up at him over age
without finding out how old he was?
Catty: that's why he said he blew his top. I'm taking
the man at his word. Shouldn't I?
Al..last straws. I know you know what they are about,
dear. act this dense, and people will start to think you're
a fundy!
Al, Curtis said that was the LAST STRAW. Does that imply
to you that it was the only thing you did to alienate him?
Or was it rather the LAST thing?
AlleyTom [~al.schroe@199.78.224.185] has quit IRC (Ping timeout
for AlleyTom[199.78.224.185])
ROFL!
LOL!
Ha!
I am JUSt about betting he won't be logging back on
right now...
He's no fun, he fell right over.
AlleyTom [~al.schroe@slip20.nashville.com] has joined #holysmoke
catty: Oh well.
There are times when I hate my server...
Had enough time to think, Al?
Curry: about what? I got knocked off my server.
Al...I apologize. figured you'd not be coming back.
Al, Curtis said that was the LAST STRAW. Does that imply to you
that it was the only thing you did to alienate him? Or was it
rather the LAST thing?
Curry: WHY should I care?
Why should you lie about it?
If Curtis doesn't like posting to me, that's his
business.
Why should you pretend that he "threw a fit" over
something little?
Curry: and where did I lie about it? Again.
Specifically.
Specifically, Al, when you asserted he was disgusted and
alienated by you for one little thing about age.
Curry: because that's exactly why he said he was no
longer posting to me. He mentioned it again this packet.
If he has other issues, that's fine, that's okay, but don't
pretend it's because of the age thing.
And he said that it was the last straw. What does that
normally mean, Al? That it was a sudden event?
Al: *You're* saying it's because of the age thing.
Saying he "blew his top."
Or something that took time?
Was it your goal to alienate Curtis?
al...even the AGE thing isn't about his age...it was
about your assumption that you knew better about something
because of YOUR age....assumed he was younger, and assumed
that meant something. You tried to dismiss his statements
based on age and it was the DISMISSAL that was the final straw
in a long list of arrogant assumptions of superiourity on
your part.
Curry: no. I enjoyed talking to him. But if he doesn't
want to, I have plenty of other people to respond to.
...
Indeed: and I don't expect people to shut off a dialogue
over something like that...without asking. I apologized to
Curtis. If he can't take it...that's his problem. nont mine.
he needed to ask, to be entitled to stop posting to
you?! He is entitled to his opinion, but he is NOT
entitled to withhold it without asking first! ok, got it!
>>> Continued to next message
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--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: babbling bullshitter 2/2
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:04
EID:13b0 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361fa
TID: GE/2 1.2
>>> Continued from previous message
Catty: he might have asked if I meant it condescendingly.
He assumed.
As are you.
And Curry.
And me?
Al -- you have a reputation of being condescending.
A well-deserved one.
Curry: opinions are easy to foster...and spread.
Al, you sure spread it.
Real thick.
Curry: real praise from the master.
Al..it was CONDESCENDING. He doesn't need to ask YOU if
its ok to feel condescended to by your OWN REMARKS. ASS!
I suppose I should have asked Joe if he REALLY was being
abusive or if I was just imagining things.
catty: HOLD IT!!!!
ARE YOU EQUATING THAT REMARK TO JOE'S ABUSE OF YOU????
:) did I get your attention now, al?
Talk about overblown, cruel things to say.
Talk about HURTING someone!!!
Curry pulls the HURT PUPPYDOG MODE whistle.
Toot!
Talk about callous, undeserved remarks!!
Can we have some crocodile tears to go with that, please?
Al..would you like to take a wild guess how often i was
told "i'm only kidding' after a very hurtful remark? How
often I was told that I was overreacting to being pushed or
called names.. Yes, I'm comparing the two. You keeps saying
that its not YOUR job to mind how you come off to others.
Go on and say what you want, Curry. This is between Catty
and me.
Then BEAR IN MIND how you are coming off now.
It's in public so long as you're here, Al B.
It IS. If you don't MEAN it, you need to change the way
you communicate, not blow people off when you're told REPEATEDLY
how it feel to them.
Catty: stop trying to change me. Stop saying you value
what I would really say...and then say you want to change
what I say.
Al...you don't have to change your style. You've been
told how it looks on the receiving end. if that's fine with
you, live with the reactions you get.
I will. Quite comfortably.
And so must you.
...
And? Why should I care what Curtis chooses to do...as an
adult?
Al -- no one suggests you should care. We wouldn't want you
to go against your demonstrated nature.
Thank'ee kindly.
Al, you never learn from the lessons. Seek remedial assistance,
please.
...
That's okay, Catty. I'll be leaving in a minute or two.
No need to kick me...
:) wouldn't DREAM of it, al..
Sure you wouldn't.
I would.
Dream of it, that is .... I'd never *do* it.
Hepcat has kicked AlleyTom from #holysmoke (Hepcat)
OK, I'd do it once. :)
Curry blinks.
Skaal! He is truly a Rice brother!
JJHitt feels as though watching a re-run.
Aw, he left. He didn't have to do that. I was just kidding.
LOL!
He was probably relieved.
Now I feel bad.
But you did him a favor.
ROTFL!!!!!!
Hep: I think you may have pissed him off.
<--- turning purple...
Apparently.
JHarmon hands catty a paper bag.
Hepcat Heimlichs Catty.
<----choking....
*cough* *gasp* *wheeze* that was good, michael...hehehehe
:-)
I *do* kind of feel bad ... I didn't mean for him to leave.
(G) His choice, michael.
catty:...as an ADULT. :->
As Al says, you are NOT responsible for how people react
to you. if he thinks it was an insult, that is HIS problem. :)
Lovely how that works.
Now, now, catty. Those are the rules for OTHER people.
You don't expect consistency, do you?
Oh, YEA.....darn it, and I'm NEVER on his short list...
catty: Tell me about it. I had to PROMPT him to tell me
that I had a right to have an opinion! And he didn't say
I was assuming anything once! Sheesh!
ah, but who is? He so delights in thinking its him and god
against the world.
him and god and paul davies
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:06
EID:8209 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361fb
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> We don't now grant 'standard reality' to "infinitesimals" in math;
DC>> Yes you do, as you add progressively smaller slices via calculus
RC> I wasn't aware of infinitesimals being commonly used in calculus
RC> courses -- most instructional texts use the epsilon-delta means of
DC> I don't no about commonly used, as I'm basing that on when I
DC> learned calculus in 1968.
As I was occupied at the time with learning to walk, I can't very well
speak from experience about the period you mention. :-)
DC> ... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
LOL!
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:06
EID:4cce 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361fc
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I would advise taking John's "info" with a hefty helping of salt.
RC> Each time I question him about it, he responds that he heard it
RC> on the PHYSICS echo -- hardly the best source for a basic education
RC> in math.
DW> Do you participate in PHYSICS?
On occasion, yes.
DW> I wonder if John uses the same dodge, in reverse, there.
No, he does not.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: SHELBY SHERMAN
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:54:08
EID:fdef 2233bec0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361fd
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Starfire
DW> My quarrel is with your mother and that goofy fuck she calls
DW> a husband - not with any of you.
SS> Details, please.
How about a title? "The Great Twinkie Incident."
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MIMI MILSTEIN
|Sub: ?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 02:15:08
EID:f48e 223411e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361fe
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> A curious little fit of hysteria. Are you feeling better, now?
MM> Another of your lasso-twirling failures, sonnyboy.
MM> My goat can't be caught by your pickles.
No need to fret over your barnyard animals, Mimi -- unless perhaps
you believe that they also exhibit the "naked cruelty" which you
so hysterically attributed to Ronald, in which case a visit to your
local sanitarium for rest and relaxation may be in order.
What next, I wonder?
"Sharply dressed cruelty?" "Topless cruelty?" "All wrapped up from
head to toe due to freezing temperatures cruelty?"
Quirky accusations from the Wicked Witch of South Africa can be fun!
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Scientific Theories.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 02:15:10
EID:e60c 223411e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a361ff
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Rick McFarlane
RM> Find that specimen, and you will have falsified it.
LA> Get real Rick. There have been plenty found!
You are full of shit, Laurie, and also a well-known liar.
Little wonder, then, that you should stoop again to another lie
when you have absolutely nothing to support your pathetic religious
delusions.
A mixture of mythology, metaphor, and make believe is a very poor
substitute for clear, rational thinking.
What a pitiful existence it must be that drives you to such nonsense.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: feed
|Date: 20 Jan 97 02:15:10
EID:8ade 223411e0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 23a36200
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I just wasn't supposed to give it away to those who didn't
RC> catch on right away. Sorry. Time to fall back on Plan B.
KW> Back to the ladies room, Harpies, it's time to dig out
KW> plan B-RC.
Hmmm. I don't know if I quite like the sound of this.
KW> And I really didn't want to have to do that--it's going to be
KW> so messy. . .
Messy?
I can deal with messy. Some definitely positive possibilities there.
Then again, some potential danger, as well. Proceeding with trepidation.
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: word replace
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:01:54
EID:f4a2 22345020
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 75e81b94
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e18494
On (18 Jan 97) Jan deBoer wrote to Jim Staal...
Jd> Yup. Just ask the nuns killed in South America. Got their reward at
Jd> the end of a rifle.
JS> No, their reward is confirmed as:
JS> (Mat 10:22 NIV) All men will hate you because of me, but he who
JS> stands firm to the end will be saved.
Jd> Getting shot = getting saved? When are you going to your local rifle
Jd> range to get saved?
No, you would go to your local church for that, silly. :) What we were
talking about is: 'recant your faith or die!'
Jd> Ask the two year old whose grandparents took him to church last
Jd> sunday so god could have a van run over and kill him in the
Jd> consecrated parking lot.
JS> Or, just possibly, as Romans 8:28 confirms, perhaps had he lived
JS> some miserable pederast would have gotten ahold of him and
JS> prevented him from ever having a normal relationship with a woman
JS> as well pain at the time.
Jd> So we can look forward to god killing some more children to 'save'
Jd> them from possible pederasty?
I don't read above where God killed anyone. It was merely my ponderance
on the matter.
... Let all things be done decently and in order. (1 Cor 14:40)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:09:54
EID:220d 22345120
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 b7124d75
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 d38b307e
On (19 Jan 97) Ed Mills wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Yes, isn't it. Every fertilised egg that does not gain uterine
RS> wall implantation, and hence is aborted, is the fault of your
RS> God.
JS> Fault of sinful man and his 'science'.
EM> I was unaware that human reproduction was designed and implemented
EM> by human science.
It wasn't. It was designed by God. The method you mention above,
however, was designed by man.
EM> But how did we reproduce before we had scientists, then?
Probably 'missionary' style. ;)
... Attention Morale: The crew will continue until the floggings improve.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AL'S DELIBERATE DELUS
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:11:30
EID:0689 22345160
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d72ac55e
On (18 Jan 97) Roger Hunter wrote to Al Schroeder...
AS> with Jim Staal or with any other believer. Better than putting oneself
AS> on a throne of one's own ignorance, and regard oneself as the crown
of
AS> creation and rationality. Maybe if you say it often enough, and loudly
AS> enough, you may believe it.
RH> That's not the atheist position, Al. You know better than that.
Perhaps not, but it _is_ the position of Fred Rice and others of his
alleged 'better educated'. (Al was responding to Fred's post, ya know)
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:22:34
EID:967f 22319ac0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f2
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def93f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Rob and Al were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
RB> Doesn't that describe Christianity to a T, Al? "The salvation
RB> of all mankind depended on the raping of a little girl." If
RB> not for God's 'encounter' with Mary; no Jesus, no salvation.
RB> "Our father who art in heaven, thank you Lord for raping Mary."
AS> Hmmm. That she gave a HYMN OF PRAISE to God afterwards for?
AS> There was no violence. Nor is there ANY indication that such was
AS> displeasing to her, EVEN THOUGH it almost caused her fiance to
AS> quietly divorce her. She didn't even have the slightest idea she was
AS> pregnant. She had "never known a man"--i.e., never experienced sex.
AS> Must be a whole new definition of "rape".
She wasn't asked permission first. I believe that was what you called
"mindrape"?
This is very interesting....you say its a GOOD thing that those raped express
outrage over the violation, because it would be 'mindrape' if they couldn't
even internally protest the act...and then you point to Mary's (apparent,
all
it shows is that any protest went unrecorded) lack of protest as a sign
that
it wasn't rape at all.
Its not the reaction that makes it rape, Al. Its the forcing of one person's
will on another without permission.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "I think thou doth protest too much."
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:44:16
EID:7143 22319d80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Judith and Mimi were killing time yakking about HOLIDAY BOOKS:
MM> The others are, however, funny indeed (if you like to spend
MM> longish time and money on waiting on people's peculiar images).
Someone piss in your oatmeal, Mimi?
MM> I really wish WWW pages gave something useful, without forcing
MM> surfers to waste money on waiting for idiotic pictures of no
Forcing? you were FORCED?! Geeze, those African access providers are TOUGH!
The WWW doesn't GIVE you anything, except the ability to express yourself
through your own page if you so desire - and if you do, there will be those
who find whatever it is irrelevent. If you don't think you're getting fair
value for your money, QUIT PAYING YOUR ACCESS PROVIDER. None of us with
pages
are reaping any benefit by your being online or not. You didn't waste your
money on US. Simple, no?
MM> practical relevance. USA users may be having no problems, but
MM> the rest of us (paying for every second of long-distance phone
MM> time) see it once, and never again.
No one is FORCING you to look once.
MM> I acutally expected some better from you. Your page is,
MM> however, no better or worse than what my 14-year old nephew
MM> has set up in Israel (to show the world how much he loves
MM> his dog).
Mimi....a personal page is a hobby. Not something obligated to provide anything
of interest to YOU. If you want to see what someone you know has done, go
for
it (and you did). If not, the world won't end and no one will shed a tear
if
Miss Mimi fails to find anything RELEVANT.
By ALL means, don't voluntarily spend your money to see someone's hobby
page
and then bitch about the money spent doing so.
That's about as gauche as complaining to your hostess that you "wasted"
your
money on new shoes to attend her dinner party and found out they were serving
something you didn't like.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Best way to be useful - stay out of the way!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:46:10
EID:996f 22319dc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Don and Katherine were killing time yakking about My Summer Weekend:
DM> LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!
DM> For the mozarella part, no.
KW> That admission will make Jesse brie a sigh of relief.
He'd be going out on a limberger if he did.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Shouldn't we be charging admission for this?! -- Zach
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:47:32
EID:67c3 22319de0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Ronald and Al were killing time yakking about .:
RV> Check the crowd, likely a women in the back ground
RV> with a chocolate pie and an evil grin.
AS> When it comes to pies, I prefer lemon meringue anyway...
A real Sourpuss, eh? ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "I have something *better* than chocolate." -- Riker
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:49:04
EID:a68c 22319e20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about ...:
AS> mine, be done." Prayer isn't sorcery, Marilyn. It's a request.
AS> Sometimes things must be refused for our greater good. Paul prayed to
AS> have the "thorn in his flesh" lifted. God answered, "my strength is
AS> made perfect in your weakness". Sometimes the answer is no.
I never got a no. Just silence.
I try not to be a nag...had I gotten an honest "no", I'd have quit pestering
and done what took me YEARS to decide to do on my own, knowing that there
was
no help forthcoming from the one allegedly there through it all with me.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "Suppose they gave a religion, and nobody prayed?"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:52:38
EID:9e37 22319e80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Starfire and J.J. were killing time yakking about FAT PEOPLE:
JJH>> damnitalltohell....
S> Nobody needs to twit you, you're already a twit.
JH> Ah... you must be the youngest one of the bunch.
JH> You have, at least, shown far more reserve than
JH> your compatriots.
How can you tell?! There are messages that have one name in the header,
another in the sig, and are referencing things that sound more like the
third.
Or is wanting to know which one is typing "making an issue" of their identity?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Tom, I don't get you." "Nobody does. I'm the wind, baby."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:53:46
EID:95ac 22319ea0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Don and Marty were killing time yakking about My Summer Weekend:
RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan. :) :)
RS> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
RS> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....
LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!
DM> For the mozarella part, no.
ML> And for that, God, edamed'em to hell...
Havarti evidence of that?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "Sir, sensors indicate Mr. Spock cut the cheese!"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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2021
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:55:32
EID:8f6c 22319ee0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332f9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Katherine and Marty were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
KW> Not everyone goes for the cat motif anyway--we have a werewolf as
KW> well.
ML> And the occasional Brontosaur.
VERY occasional.
Wherethehell ya been?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Never moon a werewolf.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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2021
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:56:48
EID:6c85 22319f00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332fa
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Al and Marty were killing time yakking about Bacteria and Evolution.:
ML> Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
ML> Dan Ceppa
AS> Yeah, but He judges about the "little bit". We're not sure (at this
AS> point) whether he's a lenient judge or a strict one.
DC> Having seen how he treats others via his own "written word",
DC> he's a pety despot.
AS> Who incarnated Himself as one of His subjects and endured a trial and
AS> execution by them...for them?
ML> Sheesh...talk about melodramatic.
You never call! You never write! You just don't care!
I spent 3 DAYS in labor and THIS is the thanks I get?!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ And we exist because the sun exists. -- Al Schroeder
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 17 Jan 97 19:58:58
EID:abdb 22319f40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332fb
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Ronald and Al were killing time yakking about Apostasy:
RV> After all, I, assume a god or goddess would communicate
RV> MUCH better then I do, if they wantted to communicate at all.
RV> I don't think the gods are talking.
RV> [ now i guess this will trigger a 10 page sermon from Al ]
RV> just a brief note.....that is...
AS> In the words of distinguished theologian Karl Barth...
AS> (page 1) Jesus
AS> (page 2) loves
AS> (page 3) me
AS> (page 4) this
AS> (page 5) I
AS> (page 6) know,
AS> (page 7) because
AS> (page 8) The Bible
AS> (page 9) tells
AS> (page 10) me so.
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
Jaw dropping....
And how do we KNOW there is a god who loves us? The bible says so.
And how do we KNOW the bible is true? Because it's God's word.
Circularity; the Bible; think about it.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Speak softly and carry a thermostellar trigger.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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2021
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Ron Vass
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:09:22
EID:0154 2231a120
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332fc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Gwenny and Ronald were killing time yakking about Sola Scriptura:
RV> There are quit a few women, within this area which could help her be
RV> less 'alone' as to life happenings. There are items that I as a male
RV> will never be able to totally understand, relateing to how a female
RV> feels. It's also an easer medium [safer?] to ask questions. Cattybitch
RV> past, to me anyhow, sounds much like Joyce's past. It's one she has
RV> only passed hints on, it's not an item i push, it would hurt her too
RV> much.
This isn't to suggest "pushing"....but sometimes those hints are the
equivalent of sticking your big toe in first to test the water. If they
are
rejected/misunderstood/blown off....then nothing else need be said, nothing
*really* big or important needs to be made vulnerable to rejection. Enough
hints that are left laying out without being picked up (and we're warped...
saying "You don't have to talk about this" sounds like "*I* don't want to
hear
this") and a person starts to think that you'd never be able to handle the
core of it. And yes, we DO need to talk about it to the people closest
to us,
even if we don't much WANT to. We need to know that that black interiour
isn't
too ugly to still be loved.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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2021
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:14:06
EID:debe 2231a1c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332fd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
J.J. and Tiger were killing time yakking about The Alignment List 01/:
Hello, Gwenny, or Tiger Eyes or Starfire or Sean or....
JJH> I've always been an open book to those who can read between
JJH> the lines. Those who need things spelled out for them are
JJH> treated like the idiots they are.
TE> Then why make an issue of it?
That's the point. JJ never does make an issue of it. JJ merely refrains
from
confirming anyone's assumptions about it when THEY make an issue of it.
Neither does JJ go to any great lengths to KEEP people from knowing, either.
*JJ* wasn't the one chortling over there being an indicator here - one of
you
were (and I'm too confused by all the switching and apparent randomness
of
authors in the header and sig lines to figure out which, or even to try
to
guess whether it matters...). That *chortling* was making an issue of it.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Attitude adjustments $29.95. Alignment extra.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107
SEEN-BY: 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900
SEEN-BY: 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Starfire
|Sub: truth
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:17:40
EID:b5a6 2231a220
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332fe
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
David and Starfire were killing time yakking about truth:
GP>> It happens to be a quote from a song. Of course, it isn't from a
GP>> "goofy" heavy metal songs, so you probably don't recognize it.
DW> 2. He is the one who listens to "heavy metal" (I think the subset he
DW> listens to is called "death metal"). I don't.
St> No, of course not. That requires at least half a mind and a sense of
St> rebellion.
Yes, half a mind. and not one bit more.
And that half has to be the "goofy" half.
;)
(Note: One should refrain from slamming both sides of any argument in the
same post. It CAN be done, but should be handled with more finesse...)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Nobody wins, slamming doors.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:19:14
EID:a48b 2231a260
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e332ff
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Gwenny were killing time yakking about "sucking up":
MB> FISH
MB> Dept. 10
MB> P.O. Box 26523
MB> Colorado Springs, CO 80936
GTP> Hey, that's us! I didn't know that. BTW, the kids picked me up the
GTP> EVOLVE fishies for me at their favorite gaming store. I understand
GTP> they also have CTHULHU eating a fundy fish, but it's out of stock.
GTP> The bad news, according to the clerk, is that there's some Christian
GTP> group, ALLEDGED to be with Focus on the Family, going around and
GTP> scraping off bumper stickers they don't like. Damn 'em!
Nah, put 'em on payroll...a commission for every customer who buys a second
one to replace the first. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ A child squeals real loud when picked up by the ears.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub:
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:22:12
EID:adf0 2231a2c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33300
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Ronald and Mimi were killing time yakking about ? S O U L ?:
RV> So which store do you get silly items like this ?
MM> Now little Ronnie, you must try to get
MM> the gist of 'figurative speak'. The shops don't REALLY sell
MM> 'common human decency'.
Of course they do...ask any salesperson what management says they are REALLY
selling....service. Make the customer feel good-ism.
Of course, stores have a reason for that....make them FEEL all happy and
warm and fuzzy, and they pull out their wallets and buy all that merchandise
too.
Holysmoke isn't "selling" anything, and there is no inherent reason to make
anyone feel good. Just preferences, and take your lumps for it if someone
objects.
Ron wasn't on target with his comment to Michael, so it qualifies as a misfire,
but not as a comment that was not allowable or beyond the standards of
Holysmoke as a whole. It appears it misfired into you...have you been
considering that Michael's reassessment of his faith is due to his wife's
health, and therefore should tactfully be avoided?
Health, rape....you seem to have a list of things Not To Be Discussed By
Polite Society. Well, Mimi, get a clue -- Holysmoke isn't Polite Society.
Ron understands that. So does Michael. And you're not such a newcomer that
you shouldn't.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Nobody said computers were going to be polite.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: ADD
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:23:38
EID:5182 2231a2e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33301
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
All and George were killing time yakking about ADD:
GM> add -50
Noooo, DON'T!!!!!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "Note to myself: Load guns before killing spree. Yeah!"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask and Ye Shan't Receive
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:24:46
EID:3aa0 2231a300
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33302
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Rod and Jim were killing time yakking about Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv:
JS> No prob: there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
JS> would have mentioned it.
RS> Computers don't exist. If they did, the bible would have
RS> mentioned them.
JS> Non applicable. We are talking about apples and oranges here.
JS> Computers are a man-made item. Life on other planets would have been
an
JS> item made by the Creator.
And maybe nothing he thought was any of YOUR business to tell you about.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "Computer! Level two." -- Worf
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:26:00
EID:4d59 2231a340
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33303
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Dave and Marilyn were killing time yakking about Cheese Whiz:
BS> And this "child" as you say now must go through life knowing
BS> its mother didn't want him or her.
DH> Any adopted child goes through this, genius.
MB> Absolutely false. Many adopted children were wanted very, very
MB> much, but the unwed mother knew she was incapable of giving the
MB> child what all children need: opportunity (which requires a
MB> certain income level), and two parents in a stable home
MB> environment.
Quite so, but very few adoptive children have access to the details surrounding
their adoption, other than what is told to them by their adoptive parents.
(and since they don't want to HURT you, they sure aren't going to say "Your
mother was an alcoholic who was more concerned with her bottle than with
her
child.")
And at some point they go through an emotional consideration that someone
out there didn't want them enough to FIX those problems. The thinking part
of them might understand that, might understand that the problems were too
big to simply "fix" and that they'd have been in a bad situation had they
been raised in that environment. The emotional side simply feels unwanted.
The child above that BS> mentioned may well have a life of being wanted...but
there will be a gut level where it also knows that - if only for a brief
time -
they weren't.
I was told by my mother once (she was arguing with my father, and like an
idiot
made ME her involuntary confidante) that my father's first reaction to learning
of her pregnancy with me (I am the oldest child) was anxiety and a litany
of
reasons why it wasn't a "good idea" to have a child then. He moved past
that
and was a good father to me. As a parent and an adult, I understand his
concerns completely, and have felt them myself regarding my own children.
I
never felt unwanted by any of his responses to me. But there is an emotional,
childlike place inside that "knows" he had to consciously MAKE himself want
me,
and that his first instinct was to wish me into nonexistance. It was something
I very much wish she'd refrained from telling me. I suspect it has colored
my choices regarding my relationships with others more than I am aware of
or
would care to admit.
An adoptive child has no choice but to be made aware that its biological
parents had that reaction to them.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Horus leaps up thrice armed from the womb of his mother."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:30:24
EID:d41e 2231a3c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33304
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about Christians v Guns
[2]:
MB> By that I mean that we were originally populated with adventurers
MB> who had little to lose by coming here and experiencing the probable
MB> hardships they might find. Being outcasts in a European country
MB> has bred in us from the beginning a much different mindset than
MB> Europeans have.
AS> Very true. I wonder if anything can be done to study the cultural
AS> differences to promote the MINDSET of those european cultures. Such
AS> laws might not even be needed, if we can promote a cultural mindset
AS> where guns are not wanted.
The solution is to survive fairly intact for a few more thousand years so
that
we forget our roots and our radical notions of individuality, and bury
ourselves under lots of visible reminders that what we do today has little
meaning to our culture in the long run.
The difference between Europe and us or Australia is that they are OLD.
And they have evidence of their antiquity surrounding them in the form of
buildings, cemetaries, etc.
A couple miles from me is a church that dates from the 1600s. It's considered
old, a symbol of the stability of culture in this area.
In Germany, I lived within view of two castles. One was ruins, but still
enough
there to roam around in....it dated from about 450 A.D. The other, from
about
1500, was called by the locals what translates into New Castle.
The house where I lived there had pockmarks in the wall from shooting during
WWII. When I expressed a bit of awe over that, I was met with a shrug....they
have all around them the evidence of conflicts dating back over a thousand
years...it means nothing in the long term.
Zweibrucken has one restaurant that sits almost 4 feet below the rest of
the
town...it was all that was left standing during the war. *shrug* Level it
off
and rebuild over the rubble. The town is not the buildings, and it isn't
permanently affected by such things. It is OLD. Rebuild and continue, nothing
done, no matter how devastating can irrevocably break that link to the past.
Life goes on.
We are BABIES. We haven't survived as a country long enough to even know
if we
are viable yet. And we won't develop Europe's confidence in our own underlying
stability until we've been here long enough to rack up some evidence for
it.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ ANTHROPOLOGISTS do it with culture
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Double Standard Ken!
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:32:52
EID:01b4 2231a400
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33305
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Rod and Judith were killing time yakking about Double Standard Ken!:
JB> Governor David Beasley (stealth RR candidate until he won the
JB> election) today cut off funds to the state health departments that
JB> distribute condoms. The condoms go or they close their doors. He says
JB> it doesn't fit with his 'family oriented' policy.
Condom usage will reduce the number of potential future voters.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Cesarean Section: A historic district in Rome.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: feed
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:36:50
EID:0c58 2231a480
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33306
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Robert and Katherine were killing time yakking about feed:
RC> DW> I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that the
RC> DW> Pie was all they had to worry about. Was she lying, or am I somehow
RC> DW> special? :)
RC>The first treats are to lure you into a false sense of complacency.
RC>Best to accept them all, graciously, then surreptitiously dispose
RC>of the pie while no one is looking. Or bestow it upon another worthy
RC>recipient.
KW> LOL!! You weren't supposed to catch on to that so fast!
AND divulge that wisdom to the rest of the mortals.
Tsk. Now we'll have to either bribe him or kill him.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Never pass the puck to people who are not worthy of it.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: heathens
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:46:38
EID:e824 2231a5c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33307
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Fredric and Al were killing time yakking about Heathens:
mg> To be honest, I still believe that this has been cooked
mg> up by you and Al. Time will tell me right or wrong.
FR> There is a pretty good chance of that because they both participate
on
FR> #holysmoke and the media allows for unsupervised discussions.
AS> Tsk. Suspicious, suspicious. You guys FINALLY win someone more to
AS> your way of thinking, and then keep on wondering "what's the gag?" One
AS> would think you were unsure of the strength of your debating prowess
AS> and arguments.
That would be suggesting that Michael's reassessment was due to the
Holysmokers. Perhaps he just THOUGHT about it, and came to the same conclusions
so many here have also, upon thought, figured out.
Are you trying to hand them the "kill"?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Heather: Get drunk and tip cows.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: David Rice
|Sub: No, really
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:49:38
EID:7b9c 2231a620
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33308
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
GWENNY and DAVID were killing time yakking about No, really.:
DR> I cannot imagine who you would be "listening" to. There
DR> were no women at Dragonfest who "made a pass" at me.
ahem.
DR> Yes, I know Soltahr. During one ritual she was waiting for
DR> me to kiss her, and I had utterly no idea what she was
DR> waiting for. Later when I found out I should have
DR> apologized to her and told her I've never kissed anyone
DR> before and I was paralized with shyness. :-)
HMMMMM........
>DR> Alas, I don't recall the particular incident you have
>DR> in mind-- you would have to remind me. It seems highly
>DR> unlikely. NO WOMAN AT DRAGONFEST HAS EVER "MADE A PASS"
>DR> AT ME.
GTP> Bullshit, David Rice. Even Wild remembers the incident.
DR> It never happened. If some women "made a pass" at me, I
DR> would have noticed.
Would you, now?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "We apologize for the previous apology..."
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:53:04
EID:4561 2231a6a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33309
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Rod and George were killing time yakking about Our Daily Bread:
GM> IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE?
RS>Yep, there's a word for that. Immutability.
GM> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how you
GM> folks twist things isn't it?
Omigosh! Both Lennie AND Moothie are starting to respond personally to people!
It's a SIGN! The end is near!! Repent now and avoid the rush!!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ From listening comes wisdom, from speaking, repentance.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 17 Jan 97 20:59:22
EID:4561 2231a760
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Rod and George were killing time yakking about Our Daily Bread:
GM> gmooth@sprynet.com
oooohhh! An email address!!!!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ BNA: Branch to Nonexistant Address
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE WEB
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:02:34
EID:eefa 2231a840
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Al and Roger were killing time yakking about MORE GRIST FROM THE W:
RH> Her answer was that she would not remember me. Now, since we have
AS> What???? Where does she get that?
RH> It's logical. She would not be happy knowing I was burning. She
RH> HAS to be happy in Heaven. ERGO, she cannot know I am burning.
RH> But, knowing me, she knows I'm burning. So, she cannot remember me.
And she's content with this? That the only way for her to be happy in the
prescence of God is to be brainwiped?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Burnin' down the house...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Alignment List
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:04:14
EID:740b 2231a880
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
BS> He "married" a former best friend of mine. JJ's got class, but I'd bet
GTP> oooooOOOOOOoooooo, you're busted, dude. Somebody who knows you.
GTP> Guess I was correct.
JB> Unless it's a setup BY JJ. Ever think of that possibility? I mean,
JB> really? Whoever heard of this guy before? And we're supposed to take
JB> his word about something?
JB> Nah...I'll wait for more direct evidence and a source I trust better.
JJ recently mentioned having officiated at a marriage in a restaurant...perhaps
this is what is meant by the above?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ A fate worse than death....MARRIED ALIVE!!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al's God of Love
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:05:46
EID:ef33 2231a8a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Ronald and Al were killing time yakking about Al's God of Love:
RV> Just Once Al. Just Once.........Is today the day ?
AS> No; because you don't repay evil with evil. Or rape with rape.
AS> Mindrape...brainwashing...is the worst violation of all. Because your
AS> body will change, and someday your body will be no more. But if there
AS> is a YOU there, Ron, it is in your mind.
Are you back to suggesting that one's mind and who they are is not also
"raped" during the physical event?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ If that's the best you can do, I suggest you leave!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fredric the Troll
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:07:30
EID:ae69 2231a8e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
FR> Neat! Now I'm a Creationist troll.
FR> By this time next week he'll have me on the payroll of the Institute
FR> for Creation Research. Come to think of it, if it pays well, I'll
FR> accept!
(slow smile) I think you could do good things there, Fred...
;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Hi-Ho Hi-Ho, its off to the institution I go!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:11:08
EID:c456 2231a960
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e3330f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
FR> I never knew anything about this television thing. Was he told that
FR> he couldn't have a television? Does his entire cult fraction dictate
FR> that?
But it was ok to have a computer??
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... I'd love to, but the man on television told me to say tuned.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:12:54
EID:69f7 2231a980
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33310
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RV> You expected a women to get it right.??....the 1'st time ?
RV> Dream on.........................
RV> { Harpy shield in place & tested }
RV> [ Pies bounce off/avoid chocolate base materials ]
Kat, look!! Our plan to keep them from eating ANY of the chocolate is
starting to work!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Anything is good if it's made of chocolate.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTION
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:14:00
EID:5e7f 2231a9c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33311
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
LB> becomes, "Is the door open or closed? Is knocking and asking for
LB> entrance needed, or is it there, travelled through without having to
LB> think about it."
RH> Sounds like a bunch of rationalization to me. Jesus' whole emphasis
RH> was an exclusive one, sent only to the lost sheep of the house of
RH> Israel. It's a big stretch to think he meant anything like the above
RH> with only a sentence or two to support the idea.
That is true. However that also makes it true that he never intended to
extend his religious views beyond the confines of the Jews at all, so it's
no
MORE rationalization than any other western idea of what he intended. :)
Its waaaay too late to try to confine any christian theology to just that
upheld by the alleged teachings of Jesus himself.
LB> children, do their best to wipe all knowledge of christian teachings
LB> from the face of the planet, so as to avoid that door being shut,
LB> waiting to be knocked upon.
RH> Indeed. It goes along with my idea that a good mother would kill her
RH> children before they reached the age of accountability. That way,
RH> they go to heaven. She, of course, is toast, but hey, that's what
RH> self-sacrifice is all about...
You gotta do whatcha gotta do...
LB> Sometimes I really think that the reason why some of the most hostile
LB> types are those most prone to evangelization is that they want to make
LB> sure
LB> that everyone has 'heard the word' so that they won't be able to just
LB> pass through freely.
RH> Many of them could care less about anyone but themself. The more
RH> converts they make, the closer to the Throne they get.
Sure...but that doesn't explain why they devote their attentions (repent
or
burn!!) so gleefully in those areas where they are least likely to find
receptive ears.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Adamant ignorance beats rational logic every time.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: war 2/2
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:20:12
EID:0b4d 2231aa80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33312
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
AS> I would argue otherwise.
I'm sure you would, Al. Your arguing it doesn't negate the fact that the
word
"war" IS commonly used in the English language, in fiction or otherwise,
to
indicate hostilities that fall outside of interspecies exclusivity. Were
that
not so, people wouldn't UNDERSTAND phrases like "war on poverty" or titles
like "War of the Worlds" and they'd keel over laughing at the absurdity
of
Klingons and humans engaging in anything as absurd an idea of "war"...which,
according to you is ONLY applied to interspecies conflict.
You *may* justifiably (I disagree, but at least you could make a case) argue
that the word AS COMMONLY USED is being misapplied...but you can't argue,
in
the face of numerous examples that it is NOT being commonly used to mean
all
manner of things that fall outside of your chosen parameters.
AS> You would REALLY have to stretch it to fit
AS> interspecies conflict as "war". It is you who are going against the
AS> common usage.
No, I'm not, Al. Just the network TV line up for a week will provide you
with
numerous examples of highly rated shows that indicate a common understanding
that interspecies conflict is a recognisable idea.
Your own bookshelves, I'm just about guaranteeing, will provide you with
numerous more examples. Were the idea of war between interspecies not common,
the plots of all of these would be incomprehensible.
AS> Do lions "war" on antelope?
Offering examples that don't fit the category doesn't delete the numerous
examples that do.
LB> For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
LB> for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely
LB> powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying
LB> Now, Al....is that, as many here will surely see it, a declaration of
LB> war against them, as heathens, pagans, fellow people? Or is it talking
LB> about warring with one's thoughts?
AS> Thought against thought? Certainly.
It doesn't say our thoughts do not war....it says WE. And it is not our
THOUGHTS that are in danger of hell for losing that war, but US. :)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... Babylon 5: A science fiction show that *knows* where it's going!
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Alternative of Straw
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:31:40
EID:972b 2231abe0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33313
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
MG> IF souls are the embodiment of wht the person does, then sooner or
MG> later, all would be consigned to hell. That is, if there was a god,
MG> sending out souls to live out our lives for us, sooner or later, they
MG> all get trapped in some sinners physical form and then would be sent
MG> to hell. Pretty soon, god runs out of souls.
AS> Hmmm. I think you're presupposing reincarnation there, unless you
AS> think no one can lead a life that would earn Heaven...
LB> "...for all have fallen short of the glory of God." Rom. 3:23.
AS> Yep.
LB> That no one can lead a life that would earn Heaven is Christian
LB> theology 101.
AS> It sure is, but I was trying to understand Martin's POV, which is
AS> very far from the standard Christian one.
Standard christian theology says there are human souls that are NEVER housed
in a physical body?
Actually, Martin is espousing Judaic theology, if I recall the idea correctly,
that there is a limited number of souls available, and that God sends them
into their physical bodies at birth (God, breathing the soul into the body
at birth).
Yes, patched together with the christian idea of hell, it gets carried to
his conclusion....but since christianity lays claims to Jewish roots, it
is
certainly not out there to take a look at it, without resorting to
reincarnation.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Eat an animal rights activist and save a trapper's job.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution 2/2
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:35:14
EID:09d5 2231ac60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33314
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
>>> Part 2 of 2...
to actually know we're not just talking to ourselves.
LB> If God overhears, and wants to respond, he knows where to find me. :)
AS> He does indeed.
Extrapolate: ergo, if he doesn't respond, HE doesn't want to. Or, kinder
to
his reputation, just isn't there.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ FIDO: all the social dynamics of kindergarten.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:38:14
EID:d41e 2231acc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33315
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
AS> But how many of us, if we were abused as children, raised in high
AS> crime areas, etc. might have turned out awful? I know that many do
AS> rise above such circumstances. But there's no doubt that a higher
AS> number of criminals come from high-crime areas and abusive homes than
AS> otherwise. Maybe it's too late, and they are irrredemable. But I
AS> don't like giving up...on anyone.
LB> Odd. Yet, you defend eternal quarantine or extinction for these same
LB> people. Now THAT is giving up on them, no?
AS> No, Lynda. That is them giving up on God. They can claim Heaven with
Then, in the above, they are giving up on society. So why pity them for
society's decision to remove them from it?
Make up your mind!
AS> a word. If they are strong enough, courageous enough, to ask for
AS> forgiveness. No sin is greater than God's grace and mercy, and it is
AS> silly human pride to think it.
AS> They only have to ask.
I don't get it, Al.
You have no qualms saying you don't want your wife to have to walk eternity
with them, so you'd have them consigned to ETERNAL jail or death, but you
think that that isn't fair HERE, where they can actually harm her physically??
If you can understand that childhood violence and abuse can lead to someone
being so damaged that they CAN'T avoid doing the same....why don't you think
GOD would be able to share your understanding, and not toss them into hell?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "On a night out..." -- The Criminologist
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:32:46
EID:f8f7 22326c00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33316
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dee3f0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Al and Dan were killing time yakking about ...:
DC> After all, if it doesn't work for a godling, why should it
DC> work for mere mortals?
AS> Would depend on what you were asking, surely?
DC> Your godling was asking for his life. He wasn't asking for
DC> a condo in Maui. Yet, it was denied, much the same as the
DC> little girl that was raped was denied safety from her rapist.
DC> Your god can't even take good care of his own offspring.
Came across this, thought this was a good place to insert it:
"Despite a great many prayers to You we are continually losing our wars.
Tomorrow we shall again be fighting a battle that is truly great. With
all our might we need Your help and that is why I must tell You something:
This battle tomorrow is going to be a serious affair. There will be no place
for children. Therefore I must ask You not to send Your Son to help us.
Come Yourself."
The prayer of Koq, leader of the Griquas tribe, before a battle with the
Afrikaners in 1876.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "How do you want me to prove my mortality?" -- Q "Die!" -- Worf
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:35:48
EID:a68c 22326c60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e33317
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e04aa5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about ...:
MB> When he prayed for relief from the inevitable, he followed it
MB> by saying Thy will be done, so he did get exactly what he asked
MB> for.
AS> Maybe it's something those of us should pray should ALWAYS include in
AS> our prayers.
AS> I do.
That was a very strong feature of 'proper prayer' according my ex's beliefs.
And I included it without fail, too. That is one of the primary reasons
why,
when I asked for help and none came, I felt it was God's will that I be
going
through what I did. It made it very difficult to decide to leave, and
impossible to leave without feeling I was going against His will by doing
so.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ Sorry, but this tagline was inevitable.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: debunking bedunking
|Date: 19 Jan 97 23:47:10
EID:e461 2233bde0
MSGID: 1:229/622 32e2b27f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 13:28:24 Steve Quarrella wrote to Glen Todd...
SQ> My wife's eight-year old niece was inducted into the LDS church
SQ> last year, and she enjoyed herself so much (being dunked) that
SQ> she wants to do it again. That must squeeze a few sphincters
SQ> shut amongst the LDS masters. :)
Ain't it amazing......EIGHT-year olds can't vote, drink, fight for their
country, yet CAN enter into contracts for their ETERNITAL destiny!
Regards,
.JdB
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 19 Jan 97 11:12:18
EID:a61d 22335980
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c283
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:12:42 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
GP> "garner more respect than the shouters." Bakker and Swaggart
GP> fall under the heading of shouters.
Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
P> And what do we base this on? That he fell? That he made a
P> mistake? Or could it just be because he is a man of God that you
P> disagree with?
A forked tongued hypocrite who rants and rails against the 'sexual sins'
of others, while he secretly seeks carnality with hookers in sleazy
motel rooms, and expresses sexual interest in a hooker's eight year old
daughter is "a man of god"????????????????
Some god you got there!
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: JeHoover's Witnesses
|Date: 19 Jan 97 11:27:24
EID:b8b4 22335b60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c285
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 13:36:16 J.J. Hitt wrote to ROBERT CURRY...
JH> Really no different that Xian Scientists or JW's who deny thier
JH> kids adiquate and desparately needed health care.
JH> I'm dropping out of the banter on this one because the fun has
JH> gone out it. The situation is genuinely tragic.
Yet, there still is no better Satyrday morning entertainment than the
arrival at the door of a trio of JW's attired in their polyester finery,
when you have your copies of "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave", and
"The Orwellian World of Jehova's Witnesses" readily at hand.
Regards,
.JdB
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:02:54
EID:234d 22339040
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c286
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:23:38 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Thanks Al, for pointing out that _christian_ behaviour is no better
Jd> than anyone else's, in spite of their claims to be following a path
of
Jd> higher morality and ethics.
Jd> In other words, they're lying.
P> Not lying, more like trying.. We are only human, and are far from
P> perfect.
Human?....the perpetrators of the Inquisition were...human?
P> Yes, Christians should be different from the rest, at
P> least spiritually.
You'd think they'd at least have the honesty and integrity to use
their god-given names, instead of hiding behind pseudonyms!
P> But unfortunately, now and then, CHristians
P> may let their carnality take over.
Translation - they can't help but SCREW once in a while, in spite of
their guilt implantation?
* If sex isn't dirty, you're not doing it right.
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:50:24
EID:9cec 22337e40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c287
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:28:48 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker with a car
Jd> purchase?
P> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should actually
P> be the pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the
P> ride.
What does he 'pilot' in your world....Stukas and Messerschmidts?
doesn't the dogma make him not only the pilot, but the builder of the
airport, CEO of the airline, and builder of the holiday destinations -
both of them - harp music heaven, or the carnal barbeque?
It seems the ride has been rather bumpy, in spite of the best efforts of
your three-headed 'pilot'.
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:58:52
EID:a61d 22337f40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c288
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:12:42 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
P> He steps on geese? Nope.. Don't recall that.. I'm sure the
P> leftist media would have reported that.
Your impaired vision may have obscured you from noticing his
well-known imitation of your hero's walk.....
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:00:38
EID:a61d 22338000
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c289
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:12:42 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
P> Sure, Swaggart was jealous of a possible gay and makeup addict..
P> Whatever you say..
Well. 'Patriot', we KNOW your typically christian homo-hatred.
You well as well come all the way out of your closet, and give us your
views on Jews and visible minorities, too!
How _IS_ life on the CSIS payroll these days, anyway?
Oh, in case you're wondering, I'm a Jewish black homosexual.
I am a little overweight, but I'm working on that, and, otherwise am
considered attractive, and you skinhead guys REALLY turn my crank!
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Idiot postings
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:06:00
EID:5a1b 223390c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c28a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:21:26 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
GP> Yeah, we've had a couple slip through.
Jd> Shees...if the stupid were excluded, there'd be no fundees here, and
no
Jd> fun!
P> SO, if one disagrees with you, they are stupid.. I am so glad you
P> have an open mind about it..
Someone who puts words in my mouth, and then tries to attribute
them to me, as above, is incredibly stupid.
P> BTW, a fundy is not necessarily a Christian. One of just about
P> any faith could be a fundy.
Yup. They're all equally entertaining. Don't they have an annual
convention, though?
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:08:22
EID:86ef 22339100
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c28b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 17:18:20 Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer...
KD> Promisekeepers is an organization intended to destroy my rights. As
KD> such I will oppose it until it is shown to be what it is.
Jd> Promisekeepers is an organization of the followers of someone
Jd> who promised to return before the end of his own generation.
Jd> That was two thousand years ago, and he ain't returned yet.
P> Not necessarily.. Several leaders of the Promisekeepers are trying
P> to get the group to accept people outside of the Christian faith
P> in their group..
What's that got to do with the two millenium old broken promise?
P> Well, if he did, you probably wouldn't have even noticed..
Why..has the 'stealth Jesus' been invented?
P> But no, He shall be coming, and very soon..
Guffaw! Now, where have we heard THAT before?
P> But even if it wasn't
P> true, so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what if
P> non-Christians are wrong? What do they lose? A great deal more..
What if you pick the WRONG god, and you have to face a
black gay female ALLAH ?
Ah, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:21:18
EID:7d8b 223382a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c28c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 18 Jan 97 14:38:30 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
... 665 - Neighbor of the Beast
I -like- it!...But, what about 667?
Regards,
.JdB
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Mustard Bath!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:25:04
EID:e8ca 22339320
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e2c28d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 16 Jan 97 19:05:00 Ronald Vass wrote to Jan Deboer...
JD>Crimped connections, copper wire, & salt air? Oooooooooooohhh, Gawd is
JD>gonna love you! Greenies growing under the plastic crimps.
JD>Corrosion, intermittent, heat, heat, smoke fire! Bad, bad.
JD>God hates soldered connections.
RV> The boy not used to Canada roads + salt. Teachs us those little
RV> problems.
Good thing he wasn't Ship's Electrician on the Ark........
Regards,
.JdB
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Allele Frequency Tripe!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 01:06:48
EID:3e79 223408c0
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd2396
MSGID: 1:229/622 32e2c529
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Laurie Appleton to John Musselwhite:
LA> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Did you get this out of the RQB or are you getting tired?
Is this how you sound when you use your own brain? It doesn't differ
much from the picture of you I had constructed.
I was a fan of the early ROAD WARRIOR flick, but I have long
since concluded that NOTHING on that conintnent would have
permitted you to live. You have nothing to offer in return
to living human beings at all, do you? Nothing usesable?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific facts (c)1.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 00:14:56
EID:c9df 223401c0
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd2726
MSGID: 1:229/622 32e2bb41
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Laurie Appleton to John Musselwhite:
LA> The February 1984 issue of Natural History magazine contaions
LA> a long article by Dr. Gould on the Ediacaran formation in
LA> Australia.
Hi, Laurie. Just wanted to say hello and let you know that
my children and I are still reading your posts. My 10-year-old
wants to know if you have read anything more recent than when
he was born. Would you oblidge him by letting me know?
BTW, did you see my post in EVOLUTION to Karen Davis congratulating
her on her victory? Guess you're about finished there now, eh? Tough
luck. Hell of a fight you put up, but she sure debunked all your
arguments fair and square. Guess that shows what happens when
creationists attempt debate in the 90's huh? And why those writers
you fellate (er, cite) are smart enough to stay away from online
debates. Oh, well.
Here's a tip for potential income for you: C.A.T. corporation,
makers of superior 300baud acoustic coupled modems, remembered
fondly by many of us, are looking for folks to help promote the
benefits of 300baud modems. I immediately thought of you! I'll
bet you could sell a potfull.
Take care,
Dave
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 20 Jan 97 00:41:20
EID:13df 22340520
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 26c22fff
MSGID: 1:229/622 32e2c1c6
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DC>> What's next? Pre-conception baptisms for every egg the woman
DC>> is about to release?
KW> Why not just baptize her belly, and get it over with?
And for 'doubles', her forehead.
I dunno how many times i stood bagging (breathing for) a dead
victim while we waited for the priest to arrive and administer
last rites.
Once I made the observation that the guy was probably long
gone to the redwood cedar saunas about now, but what happened
if he got last rites and survived? The priest, clearly under
unfamiliar pressure, answered that while he wasn't really sure,
he thought the victim might get extra points.
My best interpretation is that 'last rites' is sort of a letter
of introduction. I've since taken to preforming the ritual on
myself whenever I'm feeling particularly inadaquate in any given
day. I figure there ought to be a sizeable file of last-rites
resume's on me by now. Maybe I'll be able to get a job (since I'm
in a one-on-one marriage) evaluating the celibate behaviour of
the priests who have made carreers out of offering critical
advice to married couples.
Do you suppose there's anyone from heaven contributing
to HolySomke? No? Aw, Gee, looks pretty grim then...
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Dig
|Date: 21 Jan 97 07:44:46
EID:ffd5 22353d80
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e4c84e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ba9f5994
hi Mouth!
MB> Vital to Everyone. Untruth, no matter how righteously held, is
MB> always a mistake.
So you _ do _ know the word `mistake'!
Ah but Mouth, I don't full heartedly agree with you, but its something
I just don't want to discuss at the present, at least not with you.
MB> No, I'm that interested in finding out the Truth.
You think you're going to find the truth? I can assure you you will not
ever find it, or if you do, you won't recognize it.
MB> the heat of truth against your most dearly held misbeliefs?
Can I stand the truth? Depends on whether or not I'm seeking it, and how
it's presented. Christians think they know the truth and rub it .... excuse
me, let me rephrase that....SOME christians think they know the truth and
rub our noses in it under the guise of saying that that is what
god wants them to do in order to save our souls from an everlasting hell.
Others have another way of sharing their kind of truth, or belief, a rather
unpoignant mouth such as your own, to each of those kind of people
I attach nicknames to, yours is Mouth. Generally I don't do that unless
the other person sinks to low levels as you have, and speaks in a put down
or shaming way...then I treat them the way they treat me.
Off hand, I don't think I have ANY dearly held beliefs or misbeliefs.
MB> So you like to worship dead meat. More power to you. I like
Your reading comprehension skills need improvement Mouth.
Further, I could care less what you like or dislike.
MB> as you seem to think I ought to give you.
MB> posting here for nearly five years; how many of my posts have
About 350 or so this go around. Prior to this go around, probably 1,000
or so. You be one wicked lady with a helluva mouth on ya!
MB> Go play in traffic.
That was expected, by your history in here.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 21 Jan 97 08:15:58
EID:7a14 223541e0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e4cf9e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 7c99ba66
Mouth had this to say:
MB> I use the same language men use. I'm not one to believe in
MB> double standards. The fact that you do speaks volumes about
MB> you, male chauvinist pig.
Why, are you a man in disguise? A wannabe man?
Double standards? Man is man and woman is woman. Whats double standard
about that? Lady like behaviors too fake for ya?
Heck, light up a stogie, put some snuff under your lip! Be a real man!
Calling me a male chauvinist pig now, eh? Typical behaviorisms showing
yet again! Tsk tsk! Your responses can be pretty much calculated, just
as mine are. And so you know exactly what that means, it means there will
be no further responses to any msgs from you. (yeah, you are welcome)
BTW, you should win an award, you're the first woman, errr, make that
the first female that has ever said that to or about me. You could say it
to my face, and sure as heck you'd think I'd become physical, wrong, I
aint ever hit a woman, never have, never will.
MB> You would lose your bet, poor thing. Go apply for food stamps
I doubt it.
MB> Go apply for food stamps after
This and the comment about worshipping the dead...wow, you never cease
slamming around like a bull in a china shop do ya?
See ya around Mouth.
.........
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 08:35:08
EID:55cd 22354460
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e4d41c
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ffd56999
MB> truly free society,
MB> I didn't say "totally free," now, did I. I said "free." And,
You said what you said, TRULY free... NOT as I said "totally free".
Now pray tell, what's the difference between truly and totally ?
Be careful in the future, since you want to play these sort of head
games, others may play the same, and correct you from stem to stern in
your own postings.
"truly free society" is both what you said, as well as what you quoted
yourself as saying. Not as you stated "free" .
Too boot, you slammed and banged away, without (as is your custom)
addressing the question.
We have folks such as yourself, and the likes of Nate Cookson...which is
worse? hahahaha
Oh shipyards, I said I wasn't going to respond to you anymore....sigh.
You can assist in that by not posting to me....if you continue to post
to me, as is your privilige, you'll be met in like ways, if you respond
civil like, I too will respond civil like. (thats as close an aplogy as
you get from me)
.....
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:be23 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a2b36341
MM>Hello Katherine!
MM>Katherine Wintersnight wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
MM>KW> If you have internet access, you can see the whole
MM>KW> thing on my site at
MM>KW> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html. ---
MM>I saw it last night :-) and as far as I could see
MM>the only way it differed from your Alignment List # 1
MM>was in the entries you yourself have added (ei JJ and
MM>the Todd-juniors). Now I tend to think your echo postings
MM>misfired because there was amble space for everything
MM>in Part # 1, so the next part was a blank and got
MM>disregarded.
I've added those entries to the .txt file, too. I'm going to repost on
the first, this time cutting it into three sections. The first time, I
tried it all in one post.
MM>BTW, you still seem to have a dupe problem - same
MM>packet of msgs came through on 2 consecutive days.
I've been told. Will seems to be having a problem at the BBS, as I've
received a couple of duplicate packets and I seem to be the only one
getting everyone duped. Time to pat him on the head and see if
he can get it straightened out.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat
it.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Stuart Lumgair
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:91a6 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 5ee36c6d
SL>Katherine Wintersnight wrote in a message to Stuart Lumgair:
SL>SL> They could easily be the same person. Any sysop can send
SL>SL> messages which appear to be from a point off their system.
SL>SL> On the other hand, there is no way to know for sure. Best
SL>SL> just to treat both persona's the way they deserve to be
SL>SL> treated .
SL>KW> I tend toward thinking that they are the same person, mostly
SL>KW> because of the slimy self service praise that 'John J'
SL>KW> ladled over 'Leonard'.
SL> Well, sometimes you have to be your own best friend .
SL>From the looks of it he may be his only friend.
From the looks of his posts, he may be his own father.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * To boldly go where no sane person has any business.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Satan
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:0aad 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 80492d00
S> JH> Eight track tapes, dog hairs, stupid taglines, Billy Beer,
S> JH> Rwanda or the rap version of Porgie and Bess.
S>Geraldo Rivera?
No, no! He can't be that evil!!!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * To err is human. To moo, bovine.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: RE: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:4460 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 800ce3bf
CH>Becke !
CH>You said, rather superficially:
CH>BB>Nice God you got there...and you expect us to worship this bastard??
CH> ^^^^^^^
CH>And in the same manner, I respond: Nice mouth you have there!
CH>Any serious questions?
I take it, then, you can name his father?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * To go together is human; to come together is divine.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:7628 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org da6b3acd
FR>FR> One of the PK masters was on KFI AM 640 Los Angeles and it
FR>fr> was utterly disgusting. I was reminded of Islamic women
FR>fr> who are conditioned to pretend that covering themselves
FR>fr> from head to toe is "for their own good." (And it is since
FR>fr> Islamic men have a tradition of rapeing women who let
FR>fr> their hair show.)
FR>kw> And of course they whimper 'the woman tempted me' when they
FR>kw> do get caught and punished (if they are punished).
FR>Right. Which fuck was it... Masten? Or was it Ken Weins? The clown
that
FR>was talking about the six-year-old girl who got raped and then had to
"explain
FR>what she had done." Religion is ___such___ a good tool for distancing
oneself
FR>from the responsibilities of one's actions.
FR>And sprinkled among my Clergy Abuse archives I remember seeing comments
by
FR>Christanic clergy about how priests who had raped girls repeatedly were
FR>"tempted" by "cotetish behavior."
I don't remember, although it was Ken who advocated the execution of a
child who aborted the results of rape.
Christianity in particular is a wonderful tool for passing the blame for
a crime onto the victim--and when that doesn't work, for claiming that
they are 'forgiven' by their god and therefore no one else should have
the temerity to not 'forgive' them.
How dare anyone suggest that they should have had self control when they
were given an opportunity to 'sin', much less hold them responsible for
the results of their self indulgence?
FR>kw> I pity the PK types.
FR>I don't. I want them all to die out of existance or get educated out
of
FR>existance. The world has seen enough hatred against women justified
as "for
FR>their own good" or (the evil Promiskeeper's brand of evil) as "being
of
FR>service to women."
I pity them because I don't think that they have the balls to grow up
and become men. I pity them because they've been crippled from
childhood by the religion stuffed down their innocent throats.
FR>kw> That doesn't mean that I'm willing to turn my back
FR>kw> on them, or trust them. I pity rabid dogs, too.
FR>Well we all know how to properly handle mad dogs.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * To know others, wisdom; to know yourself, enlightenment.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:3488 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6228119d
CJ>CJ>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
CJ>CJ>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
CJ>CJ>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
CJ>CJ>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
CJ>KW> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
CJ> GEESE! GEESE! GOOSE HIM!
GRAVID! GRAVID! IMPREGNATE HIM!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * To Life, to Love, and to the Lady!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:3e4e 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7631caec
DM> Recently, here at the Journal of Rehabilitation Research
DM>and Development, we received this letter from Olympia.
DM>I withhold the name, phone number, and address out of
DM>consideration for the writer, who, if the letter is genuine,
DM>is in serious need of help. I direct this to you by way of
DM>warning that the lunacy appears to be creeping around the
DM>Sound from Puyallup and may be heading up the Olympic
DM>Peninsula: Brace yourself!
DM> To whom it may concern:
DM> This letter is in regards to the invasion of my privacy.
DM> I would appreciate any direct information leading to the
DM> explanation of this. Periodically, for eight years there
DM> have been famous and non-famous strangers watching me in
DM> the privacy of my own dwelling place. I am greatly
DM> incapacitated and maimed by this intrusion. As I am
DM> typing this letter I am being watched by complete
DM> strangers.
DM> People such as Bill and Melinda Gates, Paul Allen,
DM> Steven Spielberg, Kate Capshaw, Harry Anderson, Richard
DM> Starky, Rod Stewart, Rachel Hunter, Tom Petty, George
DM> Lucas, Jack Nicholson, Natalie Merchant, Amy Grant, Troy
DM> Aikman, Sheryl Crow, Ivanna Trump, Patrick Swayze and
DM> wife, Bob Dylan, Eddie Money, Woody Harrelson, some
DM> members of the rock groups the Rolling Stones, Led
DM> Zepplin, B.T.O. and Pink Floyd to name very few of the
DM> people who have watched me in the privacy of my own
DM> dwelling place off and on for several years have added
DM> to this harrassment and hate crime.
DM> Despite my pleas to ask them to leave me alone, these
DM> people keep finding new people to watch me. Sometimes,
DM> some of these and other people gratify themselves or
DM> each other sexually while invading my privacy in all
DM> arenas in life in which I choose to partake. This along
DM> with the sometimes present drug use by these and other
DM> people who invade my privacy only begins to define the
DM> level of hate that is and has been dealing with me
DM> periodically for eight years.
DM> Before these famous people held charity dinners on
DM> behalf of the cause that they fabrcated around my life
DM> and exploited me in every way imaginable, I had a happy,
DM> typical, conservative, affluent, respectable,
DM> middle-class life. I had no reputation as did none of my
DM> natural piers. I have no idea how any famous person even
DM> knows that I exist. I have never sought to have the
DM> first thing to do with any famous person, or anyone who
DM> has anything to do with them or anyone they ever knew.
DM> I have patiently, and conservatively been waiting for
DM> eight years for this to end and there is no end in
DM> sight. The talk that surrounds such treatment of myself
DM> by these famous and nonfamous strangers makes it
DM> impossible for me to find the job that I need. If you
DM> can shed any light on this please call or write. I look
DM> forward to hearing from you.
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM>peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM>forward the information to her.
I want to know why no one's informed "A Current Affair" or such about
the orgy going on in her front yard. I would think that such footage
would be worth a good bit.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jim Steingrobe
|Sub: Am I getting through?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:e139 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c76cc714
JS> WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet. Now I just
have
JS>to see if this works and all. I hope to be a blessing to all of you out
there
JS>since I know many of you could use a blessing. :) See ya all around
Hi, Steiny. No, you didn't make it here, and this is just a figment of
your imagination.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Unzip, expand, explode...What pervert came up with this?
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gon
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:de02 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org dcd877e8
SQ>џ@SUBJECT:HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
N
SQ>Salue, Fredric!
SQ>Dies solis January 12 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ> JJ> Holysmoke" by this time next year. Really think about it. WE CAN
SQ> JJ> DO IT!
SQ> FR> "We can teach these hurtful heathens a thing or two! We'll flee!
SQ>That'll FR> show 'em! That'll show 'em all!"
SQ>All it shows us is their backsides. :)
Considering their obsession with homosexuality, they may be judging us
by themselves, and expecting us to be so droolingly distracted that
we'll never get over it. Hey, Steve, they're trying to 'recruit' you!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Vegetables aren't food. Vegetables are what food eats.-DW
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:0fe3 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org be3bfb3a
DC>-> On 13 Jan 97 14:06:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> DC> RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
DC> DC> DC> MH> Yeah, I'm sure he has a much better cover story than that
...
DC>;-) DC> DC>You seem pretty brassiere of yourself.
DC> DC> KW> That's a bra'd indictment.
DC> DC>Well, Maiden, you are holding to Form.
DC> KW> You wouldn't want to say that I was strapped for a reply. Only if
it
DC> KW> was a long line .
DC>It's a lot more fun when you snap to the front when you are trying
DC>to leave an opening.
I'll clasp that to me, if it wasn't so obviously padded.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Very funny, Scotty. Now, BEAM DOWN MY CLOTHES!!!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:ace2 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1ff9f191
FR>GTP> their own room so they can cruise the guys.
FR>gtp> I will definitely have to tatoo Suzanne.
FR>kw> Maybe we'll need a clothing optional floor .
FR>kw> But, then, how will we keep the horny xtians out?
FR>Schedule the convention at the same time there's a Republican convention
in
FR>Las Vegas... The true Christians would be stopped by the hookers on
the floor
FR>below us. }:-}
Well, that would keep us ladies safe--what are you going to do to
protect the guys from them?
And if the CC is in town, we'll need to keep a real tight watch on the
children.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Virgin wool comes from ugly sheep.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:89cb 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d8417240
DC>-> On 14 Jan 97 20:10:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to David Worrell
DC> DW>Silly me. I always thought school was to teach you how to learn.
They must
DC> KW> The sad thing, David, is that you well may be right about this part.
DC> KW> Here in TX the aim of education is to pass a standardized test.
DC>That, in itself, is not that bad. Where the problem lies is
DC>that they lower the standards each an every year.
That they do-every year their is screaming that the test is too hard.
If they spent the time teaching the children that they spend trying to
find ways to reslant the test they wouldn't need the thing. They've
reached the point that the only thing they do on the high school level is
drills on test. State money is pegged on how well each school does on the
test. There is constant pressure to improve the percentage of students
passing the test--with the result that the kids are graduating knowing
nothing but how to take the TASS.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Was I debating? I thought I was being stupid?-DT
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:adeb 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3df1d9b6
DW>I have a friend here who is quite literally one of the most physically
DW>attractive women I have *ever* seen. She's always asking me why men don't
ask
DW>her out. "errr... Maybe because you scare the piss out of 'em?"
DW>On several occasions she has done the "fawn eyes" bit to guys that interest
DW>her while we are out together. She doesn't understand when I tell her
that any
DW>guy she gets while in the company of another male is very likely to be
a
DW>complete shithead. I try to get her to go out alone, and she says, "But
then
DW>all the guys will be hitting on me!" By this point in this recurrent
DW>conversation, I start looking for a brick wall to bash my head against.
DW>Women are fucking *odd*.
Safety in numbers, David. She doesn't want to be staked out like a goat
in a tiger trap.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * We are the Weavers, We are the Web
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Rice
|Sub: No, really II
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:f6cf 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 068cd90f
DR>I've filked a Glen Campbell song, turing "A Rhinestone
DR>Cowboy" into "A Flaming Gay-boy" that is sure to get me
DR>killed by both straight and homosexual Pagans if I were
DR>to sing it. " . . . and offers coming over th'
DR>phone. . . ." That would be fun to sing.
Any chance of talking you into posting the lyrics?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * We can rebuild him...! We have the technology...!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: blast
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:30c0 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8095b00e
JH>On Jan 15 01:10 97, Katherine Wintersnight of 1:381/123@fidonet.org wrote:
JH> KW> And if you don't play it out in public, and you make a
JH> KW> mystery of things--they will still dissect and discuss it.
JH> KW> Remember all the attempts to pull your pants down?
JH> You mean they wanted to pull my pants down to DISSECT me?
JH> Oh my...
Inquiring minds want to know...
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * What do bunnies do at a Pagan Festival? Take notes.-JB
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:b303 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4a39dc58
RV>KW>RV>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
RV>KW>RV>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> EM> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> CJ> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> RV> GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
RV>KW>RV>>>> RV> GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
RV>KW>RV>CJ>CJ>> GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
RV>KW>RV>CJ> RV> GROMMET! GROMMET! INSULATE HIM!
RV>KW>RV>CJ> GLEEPS! GLEEPS! ZYRZY HIM!
RV>KW>RV> GOODLY! GOODLY! A_MOUNT HIM!
RV>KW>RV> GROAN! GROAN! SOUND HIM!
RV>KW> GROUND! GROUND! CENTER HIM!
RV> GROGGY! GROGGY! CONFUSE HIM!
GAUZE! GAUZE! WEB HIM!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * What does a Pagan look like anyway!?!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:c12b 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org bba1e582
GTP>GTP>KW>> They do have some really nice breast forms out there. Now,
should
GTP>GTP>KW>> the lucky recipient be required to wear the prize?
GTP>GTP>> But, of course.
GTP>KW> We'll have to give some thought to just the right 'containment device'
GTP>KW> to present the booby prize in--something nice and lacy and itchy.
GTP>Should I get out my Frederick of Hollywood catalogues??
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * What does a real Witch look like, anyway?
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Baubles
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:38b2 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0c35e00a
GTP>KW> I'm not a jewelry type person, either, but you can usually find
a
GTP>KW> moonstone or two someplace on me day to day . Perhaps it's because
GTP>KW> we don't tend to go for the little tinkly pink ice sort of stuff?
Or
GTP>KW> because what we where tends to be interesting, handmade pieces rather
GTP>KW> than the stamped out Zale's junk?
GTP>Either or both. Most of my jewlry was custom made by a friend. And
I have
GTP>this great beading kit to make Egytian jewlry.
Mine is from a variety of sources--some I've designed myself, and had
made up by friends.
GTP>GTP>> So, do you prefer silver like most of the rest of us? Could
we
GTP>GTP>> locate potential pagan women by their distain for gold?
GTP>KW> But of course! The only piece of gold that I wear is white gold--a
GTP>KW> plain but rather substantial handfasting ring. I do have some other
GTP>KW> things in gold, but I never bother with them. Anyway, gold doesn't
tone
GTP>KW> with my skin.
GTP>Silver isn't supposed to go with mine, but then I'm supposed to look
bad in
GTP>black also. I wear both and get lots of compliments.
I look great in black . The only colors that I avoid are the
brown/yellow/orange tones--I just couldn't cut it as a new age guru in
'off white' pajamas.
GTP>KW> As for locating potentially pagan women, I don't think so. From
my
GTP>KW> personal observation it seems to work the other way around--the
more
GTP>KW> pagan she becomes, the less gold she wears.
GTP>That's what I meant. Another clue is patchouli oil.
Not for this one--I'm allergic to patchouli.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * When a Celt's on the run, be on the lookout for a full
moon!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:acd9 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 70e17865
GTP>Heilsa, Katherine!
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Katherine say to Gwenny:
GTP>GTP>> I am so happy I am finally hooked to IRC. I had a great
time
GTP>GTP>> last night. Can't be there tonight. They are doing maintenance
type
GTP>GTP>> stuff to my server.
GTP>KW> I should be on more regularly once everyone is back in school and
this
GTP>KW> place calms down a bit.
GTP>Your place calms down?? Wanna come give me lessons.
Yep, for as much as ten minutes at a time!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * When a Celt's on the run, it's usually from his wife!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:ff8f 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0334a733
GTP>KW> Because both families decided that they wanted to be there, we did
have
GTP>KW> a ceremony--if only a civil one. I had wanted to do it in a nice,
GTP>KW> pastel type suit, but the only thing that I could find was white
GTP>KW> brocade lace embellished tea length dress. Everyone who
knew
GTP>KW> me well found it sidesplittingly funny that I ended up getting 'married'
GTP>KW> in a white dress.
GTP> I can imagine. I was married in blue the first time, and
Wild and
GTP>I both wore traditional Scots attire for our handfasting. If we ever
get
GTP>around to making our marriage real (we were only handfasted for a year
and a
GTP>day over four years ago), I want High Renaissance. An artist friend
designed
GTP>an absolutely awesome Italian Renaissance (square neck so low it shows
the
GTP>pentacle right above the nipple) gown. And I know where there is a
gorgeous
GTP>teal and ivory brocade that would really flatter my skin color. Assuming
we
GTP>ever get around to it.
If nothing else, it sounds worth doing to get your hands on that brocade
. My handfasting was skyclad, although I was wearing enough flowers
in my hair to stock a florist shop .
GTP>KW> We're seeing more and more semi public handfastings down here,
skipping GTP>KW> the whole wedding/courthouse thing. I officiated at one
last summer GTP>KW> held in the municipal rose garden that was just
beautiful.
GTP>You are an ordained minister, too, then?? We are supposed to be doing
a
GTP>skyclad one soon. I better call her and see what's happening with that.
Yes, I did the trip down to the courthouse thing . One of the other
Priestess' here in town went down to register, and was given the wrong
piece of paper work--she almost got herself declared a church building.
GTP>GTP>KW>> Again, why do you assume that as a pagan and a witch, that
I'm
GTP>GTP>KW>> doing something illegal, or doing anything that would place
me in
GTP>GTP>KW>> more danger of that meat grinder than any xtain?
GTP>GTP>> Because your ARE pagan. . .it stands to reason you are evil.
GTP>KW> But of course--we aren't doing it 'right'.
GTP>Of course not, no one is getting a jail sentence.
Well, maybe we aren't doing it right by their rules, but we do seem to
be doing it right by ours.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * When a Celt's on the run, there's damn good reason for
it.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: blast
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:7f4d 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ed5ea279
GTP>Heilsa, Katherine!
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Katherine say to Starfire:
GTP>S>> Actually, HS is basically a small gossip environs. How many people,
GTP>S>> total, do you suppose have ever spent enough time in here to know
about
GTP>S>> anyone else? Couple of hundred tops? Sure, it's there for anyone
who
GTP>S>> wants to read it, but so is the society page (if they still have
those in
GTP>S>> your local paper). Big deal.
GTP>KW> Yes, we do still have one, and it's pretty pathetic .
GTP>Woodland Park doesn't even bother. I don't think any of the Colorado
GTP>papers have anything like I remember as a child.
El Paso does--we even have a 'season'. Of course, the season and the
debutante balls all seem to circle around the two masonic groups in
town--both of which are determined to ignore the other.
GTP>KW> Yes, this is a village, with all of the social interactions and
gossip
GTP>KW> that you see in a village. People travel through, some stay a while
GTP>KW> and then hit the road, other's settle in and call it home. As people
in
GTP>KW> the States by and far don't live in small groups, we will manufacture
GTP>KW> them. Holysmoke is just such a manufactured community--in just
the same
GTP>KW> way that a good Coven is a 'manufactured' family.
GTP>Because we need that feeling of belonging. Even the fundies here probably
GTP>have that feeling. . .they know exactly where they stand in the echo
heirarchy
GTP>and it is comforting.
Gwen, that's one of the reasons that they go to church--to be a member
of their own little village.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * When a man can't get a woman, he turns aganst Feminism.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:51:00
EID:3aa0 22349e60
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a8e8e662
GTP>Heilsa, Katherine!
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Katherine say to David:
GTP>DW>> Silly me. I always thought school was to teach you how to learn.
They
GTP>DW>> must have dropped that part.
GTP>KW> The sad thing, David, is that you well may be right about this part.
GTP>KW> Here in TX the aim of education is to pass a standardized test.
GTP>Bruce took the GED test in seventh grade (tutor used it to evaluate
his
GTP>progress). He missed passing the test by one point. Pretty sad, huh?
A
GTP>child who had not been in a public school for five years knew almost
enough to
GTP>get his diploma. Very sad.
That's the reason I have my daughter in a private school.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:3301 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae89c
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether prayer
AS> actually works or not?
Cut off your arm. Pray for God to grow you a new one. If
you wake up one morning with a brand new appendage, prayer
works.
Why do theists constrain their prayers to the mediocre?
Why don't they pray for things that would REALLY be
miraculous?
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Do Good's deeds live on? No, Evil's deeds do, O God!
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:a58f 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae89d
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> A infinitely oscillating universe will run out of steam, it's been
shown.
AS> So we can't have an infinite amount of previous or succeeding universes.
AS> And an infinite amount of hypothetical, unevidenced universes, to explain
AS> the one universe we observe, is a lousy explanation, and would be cut
out
AS> by Occam's razor...or rather, should be accepted only if there is no
other
AS> explanation that will fit. An explanation, for instance, with only
ONE
AS> hypothetical, unproven entity (a Creator say) should be accepted before
AS> one that has BILLIONS of hypothetical, unproven entities. (Billions
of
AS> alternative universes.)
I'll take billions of natural entities over one supernatural
entity any day.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:2ec4 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae89e
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DM> DM> Darn! Wish I'd said that!
DM>
DM> ML> You will, Herr Martin, you will...
DM>
DM> As you just did--I think the original of _that_ line was said to
DM> Milton Berle about 40 years ago, but I cannot remember by whom.
Benny?
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:a300 2234b5e0
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MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae89f
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DW> ML> Phuque that. It's the _National Enquirer_ of science mags.
DW>
DW> I was trying to be *polite*. I know that is hard to believe, though.
Hard? It's phuquing impossible!
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Last egg gets Al.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:4cb3 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8a0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> As Haldane said a long time ago, "If my mental processes are determined
AS> wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose
my
AS> beliefs are true...and hence Ihave no reason for supposing my brain
to
AS> be composed of atoms." Once you throw the process of making inferences
in
AS> suspicion, any reasoning you use to try to prove its validity is itself
a
AS> product of inferences.
AS> But, if there is something beyond Nature in our inferences..in the
AS> certainty from which we derive the knoweldge of "if A, then B"...then
we
AS> may trust our reason.
AS> And ONLY then.
If God made our reasoning ability error-free, why didn't
he make our bodies error-free? So we can fully appreciate
the pain of our rotting teeth, bursting appendices and
terminal cancer?
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:1739 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8a2
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> Hmmm. That she gave a HYMN OF PRAISE to God afterwards for?
AS> There was no violence. Nor is there ANY indication that such was
AS> displeasing to her, EVEN THOUGH it almost caused her fiance to quietly
AS> divorce her. She didn't even have the slightest idea she was pregnant.
AS> She had "never known a man"--i.e., never experienced sex.
AS> Must be a whole new definition of "rape".
You know, this miraculous pregnancy may have it's roots
in the truth. On rare occasions, women have been known
to conceive without the usual coital activity. The
transmission of sperm to vagina can be accomplished by
other means. As religious folks are prone to do (both
now and then), a rare (but natural) occurrence may have
been interpreted as supernatural. That's the standard
explanation for anything not easily understood.
Or a host of other things may have happened (or the whole
thing may not have happened at all). Every religion needs
a foundation of tall tales.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Go hang a salami! I'm a lasagna hog!
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:73e8 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8a3
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> RB> So, a Schroeder (Flush) beats a Woofenden (Pair) every time?
AS>
AS> Weeeelllll, _I_ think so. But I'm prejudiced.
A flush is a pretty good hand, Al. You could clean up
in Vegas.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Last egg gets Al.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:9a31 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8a4
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> RB> If I refrain from posting for six months, do you suppose Al
AS> RB> will see the light?
AS>
AS> Well, I kind of doubt it, and I rather LIKE your posts. Don't do
AS> so on my account.
But if my silence can save the deluded multitude, I'm willing
to make that sacrifice.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Ah, Satan sees Natasha.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:56
EID:c62d 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8a5
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
BJ> Thus, one cannot throw "pearls to swine". For not only with the pearls
BJ> fail to have any meaning to them, but they will only profane them.
BJ> You'll basically have to deal with them where they are at.
Is your frustration of throwing 'pearls to swine' similar
to our frustration of throwing 'reason to knuckleheads'?
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: brett johnson; jealou
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:8c4f 2234b5e0
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BJ> The same is true of marriage. Adultery pollutes the marriage bed, and
the
BJ> most sacred, unitive, act of the marital covenant, that exists between
a ma
BJ> and a woman. It prevents true intimacy, of the spirit, for it shares
that
BJ> which was meant to remain between two entities, and exploits it and
profane
BJ> it with the presence of others. By dynamic, it PREVENTS the object
of
BJ> Christian marriage, and marriage as God has always INTENDED it.
And besides that, if you get caught you could end up with
a large frying pan upside your head.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:0a5f 2234b5e0
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BJ> I don't quite see how one could go as far as to say the Bible is as
accurat
BJ> as a tabloid though. What we can say to be valid, based on historical
fact
BJ> (ie: things we've litterally dug out of the ground, not merely fanciful
BJ> hypothesis), is suprisingly extensive. A century ago sceptics just
wrote o
BJ> most of the Old Testament...now they would not be AS cocky. It seems
the
BJ> "sceptical" position, the extreme position, in relation to the Bible,
alway
BJ> has to "fall bakc" every few years, in light of things we now know for
sure
BJ> based on extra-Biblical confirmation. For example, no one would claim
King
BJ> David never existed, as once was teh case, based on relativly modern
finds.
The accuracy of the bible concerning historical persons
and places has NO bearing on the accuracy of it's supernatural
claims. Few would dispute that the bible has at least some
value as an historical text. Kings and preachers and city
walls do not a miracle make.
Let's say I write a book detailing how God appeared in my
living room. Two millennia later, archeologists discover
the foundation of my house. Do my basement walls somehow
lend credence to my tale about God?
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Naomi, sex at noon taxes, I moan.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Starfire
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:516f 2234b5e0
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S> DC> So, will the real Starfire and/or Gwenny the Pooh figure out what
S> DC> you/they are doing and get back to us and stop talking to yourself
or
S> DC> selves.
S>
S> We aren't real we are pigments of your imagination.
I shudder to think what sort of reply Worrell will have
for this one.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] No trace; not one carton.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous go
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:b5b5 2234b5e0
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BJ> Why is it that people who claim to be so unconcerned about people like
BJ> myself and our supposed supersticions, spend so much time in places
BJ> like this writing messages about us or too us?
Perhaps because we live in a world (certainly, a country)
dominated by the superstition afflicted. Perhaps because
our minority status makes it uncomfortable (if not unwise)
to speak our mind in less hospitable environs. Perhaps
because we're aware of history and religion's track record
of oppressing any opposition. Perhaps because we're offended
by religion's portrayal of atheists as amoral communists who
enjoy kicking dogs and small children. Perhaps it's payback
time. :)
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] Naomi, sex at noon taxes, I moan.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: All
|Sub: .
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:2ae7 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8aa
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AS> And that's still a wise decision. Tell people how much you love
AS> them NOW. Tomorrow may be too late.
Hey everybody, I love you! Whew! I feel better.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] AIBOHPHOBIA: The fear of palindromes.
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 20 Jan 97 22:47:58
EID:aeed 2234b5e0
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15dae8ab
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 531 days
AS> JS> yeah, and Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
AS> JS> befriends them. Go figure...
AS>
AS> Good to know.
Hell, I bet he's even had one or two to his house for dinner.
-!-
ў NFX v1.3 [000] No trace; not one carton.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Dig
|Date: 21 Jan 97 09:23:36
EID:7324 22354ae0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e4d6ae
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e45ca6
Brian Shreve said "Dig" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> beliefs in question usually do the trick of getting the
DM> believer to expose the emptiness of his system through
DM> his determined evasions, fallacies, and outright lies.
BS> Same response fits both sides of the coin Dan my boy.
BS> Many converts from atheistic beliefs have been made
BS> using the same method.
Atheistic beliefs? Care to list a few?
BS> I imagine the opposite has been
BS> done as well...ie: (to spell it out) Many converts move
BS> towards atheism or some other mindset due to the lack
BS> of belief. I happen to fall into the latter, but still
BS> have a LITTLE hope in my years ago fervor towards
BS> living a christian life. The fundies ran me off from
BS> religion, I have nothing but contempt for these moronic
BS> fools.
There is some hope for you, then.
DM> their imaginings, that makes those beliefs "sacred"? I
DM> can understand and accept somebody saying, "My feelings
DM> will be hurt if you dig up granny," but when he invokes
DM> the supernatural as a cover for his honest feelings, I
DM> grow suspicious that he might be trying
BS> Haven't a clue, Dan, haven't a clue as to why folks
BS> concider their dead as sacred or how grave sites,
BS> burial mounds, etc. are concidered as some sort of holy
BS> land, nor do I care. But in respect of those wishes, or
BS> voodoo type of thinking, I have to comply...it doesn't
BS> belong to me, it is not mine, never has been, never
BS> will be.
At issue in Washington State is a dig being opposed by a
group of local Amerinds as disturbing "their ancestors". The
site is about 6,000 years old, and therefore the ancestral
connection is general, at best. It is fairly certain (on the
order of 99.9999...) that the bones were never incorporated
into that particular tribe, yet rather than asking for some
evidence that these were tribal ancestors indeed, we shall
apparently accept an assertion of "sacred" from ignorance,
and leave the site unexamined. Are the wishes of the
ignorant concerning something that very likely does not
belong to them, either, (and never has and never will be)
deserving of such respect? I would think their claims to be
worth rather less than those of the anthropologists on their
face: waving the magic word "sacred" is an exercise in claim
inflation.
BS> And yes, for some reason, not explored, not
BS> planning to be explored, I am contemptuous of those
BS> unwilling to respect the wishes of others, in some
BS> areas of life, errr, is that un-life? Whatever...
BS>
DM> for his honest feelings, I grow suspicious that he
DM> might be trying to bullshit me.
BS> This rite, this belief has been around for centuries,
BS> long long before your parents parents parents parents
BS> parents even thought of having children, let alone
BS> having a home and spouse or even knowing what had to be
BS> done in order to make a child. This rite, this belief
BS> most assuredly has conciderable hocus pocus to it,
BS> millions of dollars, no, make that billions of dollars
BS> each year go into keeping this voodooism intact...how?
BS> Morticians are schooled on customs of many various
BS> religious moors to know how to effect a funeral service
BS> as well as how to do and what not to do with or for the
BS> body, as well as burial rites, ad infinitum. There is
BS> alot to the Egyptian curses on their dead, likely much
BS> more than you've concidered, they're not simple words,
BS> and they go back many many ages.
To save a lot of talk, old = true. As Ed Mills, might
put it, "they are not simply words, they are words written
on _really_ crinkly parchment."
BS> If you want to get paranoid about it, to think people
BS> are bullshitting you, well, go with it.
One does not need the additional expense of paranoia to
be aware of the amount of bullshit being passed around in
this or any society. History is sufficient.
BS> Personally, I just respect ones beliefs with no
BS> questions. If I have questions, I can and do explore
BS> them elsewhere.
I go along with much nonsense in "polite" society.
However, I cannot _respect_ beliefs such as the one cited
above regarding the 6,000-year-old "ancestors" grounded on
determined ignorance (determined ignorance being "we don't
know, we don't _have_ to know, and we ain't going to look
into it"). I may have to put up with them, just as I have to
put up with a society overladen with fundies. Here, in
impolite society, I can at least ridicule them.
DM> Another snotty, self-righteous little turd! Our favorite kind!
BS> Ah poo, to know me is to love me! <--- not true, but it was an
BS> attempt! I come across in the same tone as I'm met with, period.
BS> (usually)
I may have been too hasty--you grow more interesting
hourly.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:28
EID:36a5 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a0
-> On 18 Jan 97 02:16:37, Al Schroeder got back to ROBERT CURRY
AS> Such as when prayers are answered, for instance. A good example can
AS> be found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when
AS> the world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
And I thought that LSD wasn't synthesized until the 20th
century! Good work, Augustine!
... Thou shalt eat green eggs and ham - obey thy God, I-am-that-I-am.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:28
EID:0c39 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a1
-> On 18 Jan 97 03:08:59, Al Schroeder got back to ROBERT CURRY
AS> I don't. I think it's funny for an atheist to go "Good Lord!" I still
AS> do.
Not as funny as the priest I knew say, "Jesus fucking Christ!"
... "And the all time winner has got him by the balls" Locomotive Breath
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:30
EID:5436 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a2
-> On 19 Jan 97 08:05:33, Al Schroeder got back to ROBERT CURRY
AS> Certainly it does; it assumes that the bedrock of reality is
AS> intelligent and omnipotent (in the sense that He can do anything that
AS> it not logically inconsistent.)
Then, Al, that 'bedrock' is not omnipotent. After all, you just
placed limits on your 'bedrock'.
Say 'hi' to Betty and Wilma for me, and don't forget to
feed Dino.
... Heredity: If your parents had no kids, you probably won't
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:30
EID:fcef 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a3
-> On 19 Jan 97 10:32:10, Brett Johnson got back to Curtis Johnson
BJ> I'd be more afraid of your blasphemies and where they will leave
BJ> you...
God fucking damn, boy? What the Jesus pissing Christ is that
supposed to mean?
... "Bother," said Pooh as he chanted the Black Mass.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Covenant People
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:32
EID:6fc4 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a4
-> On 17 Jan 97 14:01:02, Sue Armstrong got back to Steve Quarrella
SA> Hey, I can affirm my Scottish heritage by playing bagpipes ..
SA> outside his window .. at 3 am.
Is there any other more appropriate time? My neighbors may
want to know.
SA> Of course, I don't know HOW to play the bagpipes, but when did that
SA> matter?
Strange... I didn't know that anyone did more than just try
to strangle the little beasties.
... Old Scots never die, but they CAN be kilt....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:32
EID:f049 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a5
-> On 18 Jan 97 22:11:03, ROBERT CURRY got back to J.J. HITT
RC>> No Pagan Moderators that are going to save anyone, either.
JJH>> No Jewish Moderators that are going to invest anyone.
JJH>> No Islamic Moderators that are going to foreclose anyone.
JJH>> No Bah'ia Moderators that are going to de'pos'it anyone.
RC> If Onan were the Moderator, would he withdraw?
JJH> (oh fuck... I've started another list...)
RC> Pull out while you still can.
I take it that this may or may not be a pregnant pause in the thread.
... J. Dahlmer on the Bobbits: "Hmmm, a bun and some mustard, please."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:34
EID:2941 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a6
-> On 18 Jan 97 05:13:17, Al Schroeder got back to ROBERT CURRY
RC> Curious. So did the characters who defended humanity against Yahweh
RC> in Lester del Rey's story, "For I Am a Jealous People."
AS>
AS> Good. So did Bonhoeffer.
You do realize, of course, that it was the Bonhoeffer quote
that led to Jesse's fleeing of the Echo.
... "I, your God am a Jello's God!" cried Yahweh, quivering with anger
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:34
EID:e3bf 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a7
-> On 19 Jan 97 15:18:54, Marilyn Burge got back to Denyse Heard
DH> he was born.
DH> an d
MB> according to your same scriptures. And, he placed the year
MB> at around 4 BC. Now, who are we to believe, you, or a preacher?
Personally, I beleive: DH> an d .
Makes a lot more sense than a god.
... "War is not healthy for living things": reported by Surgeon General
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:27:36
EID:a1cb 22345b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e356a8
-> On 19 Jan 97 08:31:02, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Look at it this way: I feel the same about defending Appleton!
AS> Mooth speaks, and you defending Appleton....can I claim the two
AS> instances above as examples of miracles?
Only a technicality. I missed the original post where Appleton
does claim to have walked with "President" Harry Truman on
Mt. St. Helens.
... "Better blue than Pooh", said Papa Smurf, as he painted Piglet.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: BILL QUOTES SAGAN AGAIN!
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:15:18
EID:9904 223509e0
Quoting: Martin Goldberg (01-15-97 17:19)
To: Bill Wolff
MG> In a msg on , Bill Wolff of 1:115/769.2 writes:
BW> On (02 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW>> JsnowNYT: Dr. Sagan, a question from Diaspar about religion:
BW>> Is it necessary to not believe in God to be scientific?
BW>> CarlSagan1: It depends entirely on what you mean by God.
BW>> But, being scientific merely means depending on evidence.
BW>> We don't believe...
MG> Sagan never answered the question. REad it again and get some
MG> comprehension this time.
Sure he answered the question. No wonder you have a problem
understanding me. You don't even understand Sagan, which btw shares
the same believes as I do.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: BILL WOLFF: SILLY GUY!
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:15:18
EID:8cb0 223509e0
Quoting: Martin Goldberg (01-15-97 17:22)
To: Bill Wolff
BW> You're still naive and clueless after all of these years, eh
BW> David? I never said that Carl Sagan supports the belief that
BW> a creator made everything. I merely pointed out that Carl
BW> Sagan candidly admits that "a Designer of a more remote and
BW> indirect temperament" could of done so. Why is this fact so
BW> hard for you to understand? Are you really this clueless and
BW> stupid as you appear to be?
MG> Bullshit...this is NOT what you said at all. Lets review just what
MG> you said:
> > BW> Okay where do you want me to start? How about with Carl
> > BW> Sagan? In his book Cosmos, he candidly admits "The fossil
> > BW> evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great
> > BW> Designer."
MG> Look at what you quoted. It is entirely different from what you are
MG> quoting now. There are no qualifiers such as you are posting now.
MG> You seem to be lying again, Wolff.
You seem to be lost again. The second statement is the thread from
the first. It's a continuation. You're just in denial. And you're
also quite dumb as well.
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CARL SAGAN
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:15:18
EID:4098 223509e0
Quoting: Martin Goldberg (01-15-97 17:11)
To: Bill Wolff
BW>> Carl Sagan didn't claim that evolution had positively had
BW>> taken place!
MG>> You wnat to be treated like you're not a fundy? OK, explain
MG>> why you said the above. Carl Sagan most explicitly said
MG>> that evolution has occured int eh past and does so today.
BW> No you don't seem to understand. As I know that evolution is a
BW> fact, but evolutionary theory is what is in question. Sure,
BW> species may have changed by changing conditions by natural
BW> means. Although Carl Sagan also admits that species may have
BW> been changed by "... Designer of a more remote and indirect
BW> temperament." And thus is only one of many reasons why I
BW> feel that we should question the evolution theory. Thus if
BW> the pieces don't fit all nicely (of which it doesn't), then
BW> we shouldn't accept this belief as a fact, like you and many
BW> others do just like a fundy. Which makes you and others to
BW> be no better than they are.
MG> What you are saying, in effect is only what every scientist
MG> does. Question his own work.
Unfortunately they all don't do a good job of it.
MG> Yet in the sentence above, you make a positive statement. Carl
MG> Sagan most certainly has said that evolution has taken place.
Yes.
MG> I suggest that you read some more of his stuff, Fundy and not
MG> just the stuff that your church masters let you read.
Sorry Martin, I haven't read any fundy papers in years. I suggest
you start getting your facts right for a change.
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CEPPA HAS HIS HEAD UP HIS
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:15:18
EID:4aa7 223509e0
Quoting: Martin Goldberg (01-15-97 17:09)
To: Bill Wolff
BW> I've never said that Carl Sagan was creationists. What I did say
BW> is that I agree with Carl Sagan completely. And when Carl
BW> Sagan admits that the fossil record could be consistent with
MG> You are a liar.
Buzz! Wrong answer!
MG> Carl does not believe in any designer. Read the gawddamned
MG> article again Billy.
I didn't say Carl Sagan believes in any designer. Please learn to
comprehend what you read.
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 21 Jan 97 13:01:00
EID:fbe0 22356820
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32e4be33
Paul Davis said "GOD CAME TO STAY" to All,
adding:
PD> This question is open to all, not just
PD> claimed-athiests, atheists and religious types.
PD>
PD> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would
PD> you want to have a look?
At the speaker's psychiatric record? Certainly.
PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
Inasmuch as an "anti-theistic" position of necessity
depends upon the existence of some god to be against, and
since all reported gods I have heard of are claimed to
a) be more powerful than mortals, and
b) dislike intensely being opposed by mortals,
that category of belief manages, against overwhelming odds,
to be even more stupid than your question containing it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:22:48
EID:8643 223582c0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e541b8
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e3f973
Lynda speaks:
LB> The issue IS about choice, Brian.
Exactly, no argument from me. I am pro choice too. That's a label I am
comfortable with, for myself, or for others to place upon my head.
I see red when I see folks being pro-life who are ALSO the sort of pro-lifers
who are the "get in your face" types. I can't tell you how much
that, and the in your face sort of christian, ticks me off.
Life is nothing but choice. (am I a in your face pro-choicer...thats
what I was thinking as I wrote the prior paragraph) sigh...
BS> you, (and I as well) we have
LB> Why does it cloud the issue?
"and I as well" is meant to be read that I think the same way as you
and Marilyn do. It may not cloud the issue for you to add in your
"and I am against abortion .... for myself" For me, one is either
pro-choice, pro-life..... ok, I do live in a black and white world
sometimes....so sue me! (g)
Kind of like this, I believe in God, and I believe what the christians
expouse concerning Jesus and God....blah blah blah however, I do not
wish to be called a christian, as for me, my hangup, I do not wish to
have that label. But I couldn't swear that all what the christians
expouse is true, or what I believe is true, I certainly DO NOT KNOW.
I can only believe....well, I can have hope too.
Nuff of this....
Thanks for the non jumping down my throat reply to my note.
Brian
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:a489 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E5783C
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jason Harmon <=-
AS> Hitler's role was essential to the creation of Israel...I have little
AS> doubt that the nations of the world would not have given a
AS> dispossessed people their ancestral lands unless the overwhelming
AS> guilt of the Holocaust hadn't impelled the United Nations. Should we
AS> thank, Hitler, then, for the creation of Israel?
JH> Did the creation of Israel save all mankind, like the death of
JH> Christ was supposed to do?
AS> No; but suppose the salvation of all mankind depended on the raping
AS> of a little girl, for some oddball reason...would we thank the rapist?
AS> It still is a reprehensible act.
It is indeed. But should the rapist be held responsible if it was
all part of God's "great plan"? If that was the case, we should probably
neither thank or vilify the rapist. Just curse the god who made the
rapist's actions necessary.
AS> Now, Judas was not as bad as Hitler. But he did betray Jesus for
AS> the wrong reasons, I think.
JH> What would be the right reasons for betraying Jesus?
AS> Well, suppose Judas was merely a Hebrew patriot who thought Jesus'
AS> death, though sad, was necessary for the Messianic prophecies to come
AS> through, and thus went to Caiphas without pay to betray Jesus, after
AS> formally telling Jesus he could no longer in good conscience follow
AS> Him. That at least would be more straightforward.
Was it necessary for Jesus to be betrayed by someone?
AS> "These things must come, but woe unto him by whom they come..."
JH> Why? Didn't betraying Jesus satisfy the will of God?
AS>
AS> I suppose assasinating Hitler would have been a good thing; but it's
AS> still an act of killing, and still not good for the person who does
AS> it.
What would have happened had Jesus lived to be an old man and died
of natural causes? Would all sins still be supposedly washed away?
AS> betrayed into the hands of authorities that whipped Him, tortured Him,
AS> mocked Him, and led him to an agonizing death.
JH> ^^^
JH> You didn't capitalize the H, heretic.
AS> Uh oh. Does that rate boiling in oil or burning at the stake?
I think I'll stick you in the combination Rush Limbaugh/Macarena
room.
AS> Jesus didn't show up at the High Priest's house and go, "Here
AS> I am." He and the disciples were deliberately avoiding the authorities.
AS> Peter's betrayal was hard, but it was a mere renouncing. Judas' DID
AS> something. And whatever the motives, it resulted in a good Man going
AS> through agony.
JH> Once again, didn't God send his son with the intention that he
JH> would die?
AS> Aren't we all sent here with the knowledge that we will die? Does
AS> that mean we should praise those who speed it up, like murderers?
You know what I mean, Al. Jesus was not sent here to die of natural
causes. Where would your mythologies be if the sins of the world were
washed away by a guy dying in his sleep?
... Hey! I'll bet you're that false Xtian scum I've heard so much about!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Black lipstick
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:a3c8 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E5783D
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Steve Quarrella <=-
FR> It seems that it was in the dress code -- but that the dress code was
FR> so vague as to make this issue a matter of opinion.
I don't know about the dress code at that school, but the one in
mine does have a "catch-all" section at the end. After listing
the usual stuff about halter tops, spandex, shown undergarments,
etc., there is this section:
"Judgement of questionable dress will be made on a case by case
basis. Any clothing deemed by the administration as unacceptable
or disruptive to the educational process may be prohibited."
Methinks something like that was used. Though I still don't
understand how wearing black lipstick is disruptive.
... The Illuminati do not exist. Really. We're not kidding.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:0a35 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E5783E
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Dan Ceppa <=-
AS> My religion will save them with a word, a simple asking for
AS> forgiveness. It has made millions want to join, yes.
DC> Don't you notice the "small" problem with extortion, Al?
AS> Asking forgiveness is extortion???
Automatically damning people for eternity and then telling them to
ask for forgiveness is extortion.
AS> Anyway, it also promises that we will have a cross to bear in this
AS> life, and that the world shall despise the believer. So it ALSO
AS> promises that we'll have it pretty rough in the here and now.
Guess what? Everybody has problems. Despite it's use of the symbol,
Christianity doesn't hold the monopoly on bearing crosses.
... Summer in the trees! It is time to strangle several bad poets.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:ca78 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E5783F
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> I asked my wife how she could be happy in Heaven, knowing I was
RH> burning in Hell.
AS> Oooohhhh. THAT's a rough question.
RH> Her answer was that she would not remember me. Now, since we have
AS> What???? Where does she get that?
Maybe it's "God's plan" for keeping us happy.
Would you be happy if you knew your wife was burning for eternity?
... I walk the fine line between fantasy and science fiction.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Re: Where are my glasses?
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:90f0 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57842
-=> Quoting Ed Mills to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> The world is nuts.
....and bolts.
EM> The nuts and kooks I don't mind - hell, I are one.
And I am he and we are all together.
EM> It's the idiots that scare me.
Last year in English while analyzing a few King Arthur stories, we
were giving an assignment to make some kind of poem thing (it wasn't
a poem, but I guess she couldn't come up with a better word to describe
it.) Anyway, it ended up as some Haiku mutation. We would start off
with the name of the character, then each other line would have a
certain characteristic. Strong qualities, what they wanted in life,
etc.. One of them was "What do they fear?"
Anyway, after we did it for a couple of characters we were told to do
one for ourselves. I was doing all right (after I remembered my name)
until I reached the bit about what I feared. I was stumped. So I
turned to a friend sitting next to me and asked him what he thought I
feared. He reminded me of some comments I hade made concerning the
election a few days ago. After thinking for a while, I finally figured
out what I feared.
Idiots with power.
I wonder how the teacher took that.
... An unfettered government, no matter how beneficent, is a threat!---
SF-Quick 1.20
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re:
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:b722 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57843
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Dan Ceppa <=-
DC> That's because your god lives by the Golden Rule:
DC> "Do as I say, not as I do."
AS> Well...remember I think Jesus was an incarnation of God. In that
AS> respect, he says, "Do as I said...and did."
You mean like cursing out-of-season fig trees?
... "ThEre Is nO wAy out... It'll bE DaRk sOon..."- Torgo
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Re: Abortion clinic bombing
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:8647 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57844
-=> Quoting Don Martin to All <=-
DM> Well, after a longish period of quiet, we've had two
DM> bombs at an abortion clinic in Atlanta this morning: anyone
DM> care to take the bet that the perp, if caught, will turn out
DM> to be a Real, True Christian?
Of course, all the other Christians will say they are not
of the Real True brandname. And groups like Operation Rescue will
say they never encourage violence, even though they do refer to
abortion clinics as "warzones".
DM> Are all of our rabid anti-abortion fundies accounted
DM> for?
Hopefully Ken Weins is busy looking for that vapor canopy of his.
... I'd post a Pro-Life saying, but there's no ANSI swastika.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re:
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:b26e 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57845
-=> Quoting Becke Boyer to Fredric Rice <=-
BB> Paul and I actually stopped in there for shits and giggles when we
BB> were out shopping for a new car recently. Not only are they overpriced
BB> (every single car on the lot is $7,995--mind you, all these cars are
BB> pieces of shit as well), but he tried the hard fundie sell on us.
BB> Seemed kind of irked when we commented on where we could put the Darwin
BB> fish. ;)
Did he cover his ears and start humming loudly when you said the
D-word?
BB> Needless to say, they were glad to see us go. =)
"Avert your eyes children! They may take on other forms!"
... "The earthling has stolen the space modulator!" -- Marvin T. Martian
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mythology
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:2e7d 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57846
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Dan Ceppa <=-
DC> At least the Greek pantheon had a recognized number of deities.
SQ> Fundies will most likely holler "When's the last time you saw a god
SQ> spring out of the forehead of another god? That's just stupid." :)
Heh. Some Christian was once calling me on my fascination with
mythologies of all kinds. He said "Listen to some of these things!
People forming from sea foam, people forming out of other people's
heads! How can you believe this stuff?"
I said "For one thing, I don't believe it. Secondly, how can you
believe that stuff about virgins giving birth?"
That was the first time I ever saw the deer-in-a-headlight look on
a human being.
... Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! See, nothing happe$%@!).#^NO CARRIER
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Re: Literally seaking
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:11:20
EID:91a0 22358160
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32E57847
-=> Quoting ROBERT CURRY to JIM STAAL <=-
JS>> REad the book.
KD> I'm not convinced that book is accurate.
JS> I am.
RC> A friend of mine was asking how anyone could be convinced about
RC> the accuracy of any book that claims an ass can talk. I showed him
RC> your posts.
Which proved an ass can also type.
... Life is what happens while you are making other plans. -John Lennon
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Fondle
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:39:28
EID:a94d 2234a4e0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2d0950d3
GM> Some time ago I saw a bumper sticker with these
GM> unusual words:
GM> кФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФП
GM> Г COMMIT RANDOM ACTS OF KINDNESS Г
GM> Г AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY. Г
GM> РФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФй
GM> It sounds a bit reckless to engage in "random" and "senseless"
GM> acts. But as I mentally dismantled that strange combination of
GM> words, I realized that its various parts are surprisingly
GM> compatible with the apostle Paul's admonition in Galatians 6:10.
In the parking lot of the Greek Village Spa I saw a
bumpersticker which read:
ЩЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЛ
К WARNING: SODOMY CAN К
К BE HABIT-FORMING! К
ШЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭЭМ
I thought to myself: Why would anyone want to stink up his
Johnson when there's a hole that's made for this sort of thing?
I then searched the Bible on CD for occurrences of "sodomy" and
found not a one! No where, as far I could tell, is it given any
mention whatsoever. Well, it may be distasteful as hell, but
it's apparently NOT proscribed by the Bible. So, good Christians,
if you really want to do it, I guess it's OK with God.
But I'm sticking with the front orifice, if it's all the same
to you guys.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring Christanic Death Cult Factions
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:54:34
EID:b290 2234a6c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 75288dfd
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e2cebb
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Don Martin to Ed Mills:
EM> I know way too many people who make a lot more money than I
EM> do (which isn't difficult) and who do not know that our Sun
EM> is a star, or that hydrogen is the commonest element, blah
EM> blah blah. Some of these people have fairly sterling academic
EM> credentials, too. If that's what it means to have an MBA,
EM> then I'm glad I dropped out in the 11th grade.
DM> Hate to sound like an academic snob (but there it is), but leave
DM> us not confuse MBAs with real degrees. They are a sort of trade
DM> union card, the attainment of which may involve considerable study
DM> but no education whatsoever.
Shows what I know about academia. Any of it's a damn sight fancier'n
what I got.
But at least I learned how to spel!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:02:18
EID:9062 2234a840
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 47fc4652
REPLY: 1:3603/210 22f1666a
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from ROBERT CURRY to J.J. HITT:
RC> RC>> No Pagan Moderators that are going to save anyone, either.
RC> JJH>> No Jewish Moderators that are going to invest anyone.
RC> JJH>> No Islamic Moderators that are going to foreclose anyone.
RC> JJH>> No Bah'ia Moderators that are going to de'pos'it anyone.
RC> If Onan were the Moderator, would he withdraw?
RC> JJH> (oh fuck... I've started another list...)
RC> Pull out while you still can.
Too late for threadus interruptus... ohhh.. unnghh...
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:09:08
EID:5dc9 2234a920
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 bc2189bc
REPLY: 1:358/1 a358d36b
18 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Quentin Fai to Ed Mills:
QF> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Ed utter:
EM> Better check your mitts for stigmata.
QF> AAAHHH!!! AAAHHH!!! STIGMATA!!!
QF> No, wait.. that's just a cat scratch.
Although I have cats, my stigmata are always caused by the misuse
of Mr. Craftsman Screwdriver and his pointy relatives.
What the fook is a "'Fropstick?"
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Off the ropes
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:16:34
EID:fb93 2234aa00
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 0b2aa198
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e35e56
20 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Don Martin to Mimi Milstein:
DM> I have also heard that the rich cooked (or had their cooking
DM> done for them) in lead pots; additionally, lead has been popular in
DM> cosmetics into the present century. "The white" and "the red" of
DM> milady's vanity in the 18th century were white and read lead,
DM> respectively. The stuff is very smooth and creamy, and actually
DM> feels good on the skin (through which the heavy metal is absorbed).
DM> And yes, this theory is advanced to explain why the Roman
DM> aristocracy lost it: the peasants and the sturdy beggars on the Dole
DM> seemed as stable as ever, even as the upper classes were producing
DM> more than their share of fruitcakes and halfwits.
DM> Of course it is also true that only the fruitcakes and halfwits
DM> of the rich got written about, while those of the lower classes were
DM> pretty much ignored, so the theory may be no more than an attempt to
DM> explain a reporting phenomenon
This calls into question another old tale: the Southern practice of
eating the vegies and meat from the pot and feeding the remaining
liquid to the slaves, thereby unwittingly insuring that the blacks
got the vitamins and the whites got the scurvy.
Maybe bogus after all?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:31:00
EID:1bb6 2234abe0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 5c178b09
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e364d2
20 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Ed Mills:
DC> appropriate Echo. And, I can load any other tagline file
DC> on the fly or even add a brand new tagline and save it.
DC> Also, it's easy to steal taglines from actual tags or get them
DC> from text in a message. Plus, before I save the stolen text,
DC> I can edit it as necessary.
DC> ... Ed Mills, you NEED Blue Wave! <---see!
I'll download it, but I don't even know what a "tosser" is. Ppoint
appears to only have two external programs that run with it; the
terminal and the text editor. Is the Binkley terminal thing what
does the tossing?
I haven't asked my sysop any of these things because I don't like
to lean too much on any one person, and he's already been so kind
as to let me schlep mail off his system. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Hey!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:39:30
EID:5512 2234ace0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ff5e6f72
Where'dja go, you old cuss?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Paul Halyung
|Sub: Eckankar - ???
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:58:50
EID:63ea 2234a740
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7404c73a
REPLY: 1:246/15@fidonet 098d070d
On Jan 19 13:05 97, Paul Halyung of 1:246/15@fidonet wrote:
PH> What is Eckankar?
It's a Scientology spin-off, spiced with a whopping dose
of Eastern-sounding mystical shit.
PH> Egads! Is this another cult? I have never heard of these
PH> crispy critters before.
I'm suprised they are still around. This is the first mention I've
heard of them in a couple of years.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: The Alignment List
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:09:28
EID:9be3 2234a920
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7404dc68
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e3f9b8
On Jan 20 17:03 97, Brian Shreve of 1:106/113 wrote:
KW>> Oh ho, the carefully crafted mystery begins to unravel!
BS> I think I should stop before I endure JJ's wrath.
I don't see why not. Everyone else is able to endure it.
Besides, they think you're me. (Which is as close to damnnation
as anything this medium has to offer.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:12:30
EID:3e27 2234a980
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7404e50b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4995261a
On Jan 17 22:16 97, Katherine Wintersnight of 1:381/123@fidonet.org wrote:
KW> think that our JJ is married--in quotes or otherwise.
BS> I aint got a clue JJ is now, or ever has been hitched.
This was in reference to a wedding where I was the
official, not one of the victims.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Denyse Heard
|Sub: Re: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:16:00
EID:c149 2234aa00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 74050417
REPLY: 1:381/95 e52f24f0
On Jan 18 02:07 97, Denyse Heard of 1:381/95 wrote:
DH> I beg to differ on a couple of points raised inthis
DH> discussing. 1. The year 1 is not theoretically the year HE
DH> died, it was the year he was born.
DH> an d
DH> 2 . According o the most accurate research I have been
DH> able to find, He was b orn Sept. 12, 3 B.C.. That would
DH> make this year the end of the mi lennium.
DH> I have a bit of evidence, mostly direct from the Bible, but
DH> a lot was gleaned through other hisorical sources. Anyone
DH> interested?
Yes.
Especially the September 12th bit.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 21 Jan 97 13:04:00
EID:36a6 22356880
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 8c2c37cd
SS> way that stops the correspondence without actually sending the
SS> writer further 'round that tree he's up.
DM> Ah, the challenges of PR! No, I don't get to answer her:
DM> luckily, I have an editor above me who abrogates all the
DM> really _important_ correspondence to herself. The best
DM> suggestion I have had so far came from my wife, who suggested
DM> that the social services mavens of Olympia be contacted. I
DM> tried to look some up on the net but was unsuccessful.
DM> Waitaminnit! Somebody Maiden has recently started posting on
DM> this echo. Perhaps she'll know. (I just hope that she was not
DM> the writer of the letter when out from under the handle.)
Your wife is a kind lady but I don't think you'll get far. My
experiences along this line suggest that those mavens won't want to
know until she begins acting out in the bank.
Sally
(72210.3477@compuserve.com)
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 11:26:00
EID:89cb 22355b40
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 86ec652a
DC> So, just how many more females are born as compared to males?
DC> I knew it was a couple of percentage points. Has that
DC> increased?
MB> At birth, there are 51 males for every 50 females. But, males
MB> are more apt to die in the first year. Then teenage nonsense
MB> like playing chicken behind the wheel takes over a widens the
MB> gap even further. It used to be that war widened it even more
MB> after that, but that hasn't been so lately. Then, in old age,
MB> men die sooner than women by about 5 years.
Thirty years ago it was 53 boys to 50 girls (or, as the numbers were
given to me, 106 to 100). That has changed? What could cause the
change?
... They call it PMS -- Pre-Minstrel Syndrome.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Orion?
|Date: 17 Jan 97 06:35:00
EID:8c91 22313460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A759149
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Fredric Rice spoke thusly to Quentin Fai <=-
qf> I already have a goat idol on top
qf> of my computer. But mine's ceramic. :)
FR> You lucky bastard!!! Send him to me! }:-}
You need to talk to ME about that one. I was Quentin's source.
Of course, he did paint it himself.
And if you've seen Mike's .gif on my page...with the horns...I have the
whole goat head (almost life size) that goes with those horns and ears.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 06:49:00
EID:5170 22343620
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78ACDD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Brian Shreve spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
BS> a third addition...that being for _choice_. Choice of what, it's wrong,
BS> or it's right? Nice way to cloud / confuse the issues.
Choice of interfering or not in other people's choices. Abortion, like
tobacco and alcohol, is legal. No clouding or confusion. I can think
anything is wrong...for MYSELF...and still not wish to interfere with
anyone else's choice for themself.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 20 Jan 97 06:55:00
EID:795e 223436e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78ACDE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
RC> Shall we combine the two? "Beavis and Biblehead" anyone?
Too bad you don't have internet access You'd love this one.
http://www.cfw.com/~steven8r/church.html
The Church of Beavis Christ.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 07:06:00
EID:e550 223438c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78ACDF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
DC>> Bull****. Your godling was there for the Jews. It was Saul who
DC>> decided to branch out to the Gentiles and adopt Gentile ways.
JF> Why do you keep referring to Jesus as a godling? He was (or rather,
Did dear Jonathon really do the nasty non-no of this echo? I refer to
the first word after the first DC>>.
Or did god Dan really say 'Bull-stars'?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 20 Jan 97 07:18:00
EID:51a4 22343a40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78ACE0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Katherine Wintersnight spoke thusly to Mimi Milstein <=-
KW> I don't think Judith messed with that one--it does seem to
KW> be the same as the photo of hirself that JJ was passing out on IRC the
KW> other day.
Ah, but yes I did. ALL the pictures I use in my 'as I see them' section
have been GOO'd. All of them.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:18:00
EID:2635 22345240
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78F920
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
AS> be found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when
AS> the world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
WOW!! You mean like 'I'm mellllllting into the color...can't you see it'?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:20:00
EID:4dae 22345280
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78F921
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
AS> I don't. I think it's funny for an atheist to go "Good Lord!" I still
Gee, I thought Lords were those titled people who preside in the upper
chamber of the British parlaiment.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Walking on water
|Date: 20 Jan 97 10:32:00
EID:47b4 22345400
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A78F922
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Ed Mills spoke thusly to Jan Deboer <=-
EM> It wasn't Dutch? It sure sounded like it.
It's Dutch. Deboer is geographically challenged...or trolling. If the
latter is the case, may he end up taking a bath in the North Sea in
January.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:55:00
EID:6646 222d6ee0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A71010C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Roger Hunter spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
RH> I've tried your home page Judith, and there are no problems with it.
RH> If J.j. is having any, he needs to dump his CGA monitor and move up
RH> a tad .
Nah, I really think he just needs to dump his Netscape memory cache.
RH> 1) The graphics take forEVER to load.
You should have seen it when I had them in .jpg format. (.gifs load
faster)
RH> 2) The pictures look lousy in 16 color VGA
Well, I can't take credit for that. Or maybe I can....the pictures ARE
GOO'd, you know. Which means that colors may not be exactly what you are
expecting. I did a lot of experimenting with hue and saturation effects.
RH> I know, I know.....follow my own advice.
Or start loading the page, go get a sandwich and a beer...and by the
time you find your rose-colored glasses everything will be loaded and look
fine.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: green Party?
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:56:00
EID:436c 222d6f00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A71010D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> Groetjes.
JD> Ik verstein niet 'Groetjes'.
JD> Groentjes, ya, ya!
Correction:
Ik geen verstaan 'groetjes'.
Ja, wel.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
|Date: 13 Jan 97 11:54:00
EID:722c 222d5ec0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A71010E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JD> Mit groentjes?
Nee! MET groentjes.
rutabagas, even.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Our Daily Fix
|Date: 13 Jan 97 12:20:00
EID:416c 222d6280
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A71010F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to George Mooth <=-
JD> Columbia! MISSIONARIES in Columbia! Ah, ha, ha, ha. Do they keep you
He was talking about Columbia, MD. Home, now, of our own good WOA
Don Martin.
If they let him in, you KNOW they need missionaries.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Reich-to-lifers
|Date: 13 Jan 97 12:25:00
EID:6248 222d6320
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A710110
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Rod Swift spoke thusly to Karl Schneider <=-
RS> point onward the reich-to-lifers want to do everything to
RS> exterminate any human that's *NOT LIKE THEM*.
That isn't the whole point. Weins, in one of his anti-abortion rants,
managed to say that 'all are BORN [emphasis mine] in sin and worthy of
death'. Innocent until you're born, dog chow after.
One of the reasons the fundies make no sense at all on this point.
... Possessor of a mind not merely twisted but actually sprained.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:49:00
EID:1689 222d6e20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A710111
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
AS> a good imitator. A VERY good imitator indeed. And even went to the
AS> point of simulating wounds for it. Quite frankly, sounds more like a
AS> bad soap opera than real life.
Identical twins, playing the games that twins do...PRETENDING TO BE EACH
OTHER (in this case, one having a handy stand-in) could very easily fool
people who had known 'him' for a very long time.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: idle
|Date: 17 Jan 97 13:59:00
EID:6a4a 22316f60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B83B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Ed Mills spoke thusly to All <=-
EM> O god of atheism, I beseech thee:
Steingrobe's back. Your prayers have been answered.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:15:00
EID:1689 223229e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B83C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
AS> things are...like twins appearing and flawlessly acting just like the
AS> twin who died...and deceiving people who travelled with them for a
AS> year. You don't have any way to measure how "likely" a miracle can
Yep deceiving people who traveled with them for a year. Let's see, what
was that quote? Oh yes, 'who the hell are you?'
And wouldn't anyone be willing to overlook a few aberrations in behavior?
After all, being dead isn't quite like going for a two week cruise
around the Greek islands. Bound to make a few personality changes, a few
memories lost here and there, a bit of confusion about what really
happened. I mean 'gee, I was dead and in hell, you expect me to remember
what I had for supper last Friday?'
The biggest thing is, these people who...you claim...knew Jesus SO well
had to ask who he was. Even up close and personal. Which is real strange
since people who never knew Elvis have recognized him so often since HIS
death.
... What's all this fuss about endangered feces?
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:42:00
EID:132b 22322d40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B83D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> No, you're confusing me with Judith.
OOOOOO!!! Kinky.
If you would, please sir, what color is your hair? (This is a serious
question that bears on the sanity of 2 people in the echo. Trust me. )
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:47:00
EID:d26f 22322de0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B83E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
MB> The scripture doesn't say "ask and I'll answer," it says
MB> ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! There is no room for refusal
MB> in that statement.
RC> Even Al has better sense than to believe what the bible says!
But he's sure wasting enough time and bandwidth trying to convince
everybody that it doesn't *really* say that.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:53:00
EID:bc10 22322ea0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B83F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> You were treated the same as anyone else, Al. The difference was
RC> simply that your junk email did not contain anything whatsoever of
RC> a personal, private, or confidential nature. Whine all you like,
RC> but every last person here who saw what you wrote -KNOWS- that for
RC> a fact.
For some reason, this reminded me that I have forgotten to thank you for
the snail mail.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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* Origin: The Big Dog's BBS-Charleston, SC *803-769-6131* (1:372/62.0)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:55:00
EID:9477 22322ee0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B840
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to All <=-
RC> Behold the hurt puppydog!
I've got a recipe for sunshine liver bait for training. It really helps
when you're in the phase of trying to teach 'pay attention'.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 18 Jan 97 06:06:00
EID:8e06 223230c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B841
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
RC> Silly Harpy!
Hey, boy, when you say that. Insult one harpy, insult us all.
Don't sleep too soundly. Remember that harpies are nocturnal. We
deliver chocolate pies while the rest of the world slumbers.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: The Big Dog's BBS-Charleston, SC *803-769-6131* (1:372/62.0)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: omni-sadistic
|Date: 18 Jan 97 06:10:00
EID:77bd 22323140
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B842
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> So Jesus fucks the little children. How sweet.
You seem to forget the first pedophile acceptance...'suffer the little
children to come unto me and forbid them not.'
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:16:00
EID:c0f9 22323a00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B843
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
DC> Why not, Al? Zero works quite well mathematically.
Uh, as far as I can see, math doesn't work at all without zero. You
get to 9 and there's nowhere else to go.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: OUR DAILY BREAD
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:19:00
EID:3cf6 22323a60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B844
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Becke Boyer <=-
DC> Not quite sure, but I think it may have been to Judith Bandsma.
Nope, not to me. And it wasn't Georgie Porgie who dropped something
more a while back, it was Lennie.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:26:00
EID:b2c3 22323b40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B845
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Don Martin spoke thusly to Curtis Johnson <=-
DM> RE: the previous message--Another matrilineal tribe,
DM> incidentally, is the Hopi.
With a WONDERFUL tradition. The man is never allowed to even *look* at
his mother-in-law.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:30:00
EID:e364 22323bc0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A76B846
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Gwenny The Pooh spoke thusly to Fredric Rice <=-
GTP> keeps people confused. My word of choice right now is POODLES. . .most
GTP> disgusting thing I can think of.
Try PUPPY MILLS. After the raid in Washington state, that's even more
disgusting. (250 dogs SURVIVED, 77 pups between the ages of 3 and 6 weeks
with no way of telling which mother belonged to which pups, ears on
so-called fighting breeds not just cropped but cut off...with scissors.)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: truth
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:37:00
EID:3f18 223274a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A760521
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
RM> Why not?
AS> Because it's 8 degrees out this morning, and the high will be 25.
SISSY!!!!
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:41:00
EID:c140 22327520
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A760522
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
DC> Perhaps she should have read a bit first before jumping into
DC> the fray.
Perhaps she should have been allowed to read more than selected short
subjects before being encouraged to enter the echo.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:43:00
EID:c140 22327560
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A760523
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
DC> Good question. However, the fact remains that syphilis was a
DC> childhood disease in this hemisphere when the Europeans contracted
Should be able to answer some of these questions shortly. Got a book
today called Plagues and Peoples, about how disease influenced societal
formations and growth.
I have 2 books ahead of it so give me a couple weeks.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:22:00
EID:fa8a 22327ac0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A760524
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Roger Hunter spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RH> But how so, "more"? You aren't old enough. I've been married
RH> almost 41 years and she's always been in the CofC.
Didn't you know? Al considers himself the 'wise old man' of the echo.
Since he is so much older and wiser than everyone else, it justifies
his meddling in everyone else's life.
And you can't have been married 41 years. You don't have Al's permission.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: AM I GETTING THROUGH?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:14:00
EID:2ea4 223341c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Becke Boyer spoke thusly to Jim Steingrobe <=-
BB> FRESH MEAT!!
Slightly aged meat. He's been here before.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:16:00
EID:9410 22334200
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CB
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Brian Shreve spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
BS> most cases of homosexuality is in the genes, and not a choice.
BS> (And nope, I'm not fat or gay or bisexual. I'm just a mental case.
I'm waiting for the day we get the perfect target for all of us...
a fat, gay, black, Jewish, Republican fundamentalist.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: christ-like
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:22:00
EID:2026 223342c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Christian Hedemark <=-
CJ> By what you say was his alter ego? The prosecution could
CJ> rest on that alone!
How'd YOU get a look at my motion for a directed verdict of guilty?
Gonna sue the judge.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Experimental Prayer
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:35:00
EID:cc2a 22334460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
JD> Pat Robertson already claims to have
JD> deflected a hurricane with prayer. Simply place Pat in a comfortable
Same hurricane I deflected from Charleston with the Grateful Dead.
I kept playing 'Bertha (don't you come around here)' for 12 straight hours.
Worked just as well as Robertson's prayer. Maybe even better because we
didn't even get as much on the tail end as he did.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:45:00
EID:04c8 223345a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
JF> Umm... He DIDN'T bring a whip. Read the Bible! I don't know who's
JF> telling you lies, but they have to stop. You must belong to one of
John 2:15
And when he had made a SCOURGE of small cords, he drove them all out of
the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers'
money, and overthrew the tables;
What do you think a scourge is? It's a whip. Made of several cords knotted
at the ends, leather strips knotted at the ends or either cord or leather
strips embedded with metal hooks on the ends.
Now, are you accusing the BIBLE of lying?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:56:00
EID:5671 22334700
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7CF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Martin Goldberg spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
MG> I'll catch shit for this, I know, but I seldom have found a profession
MG> so totally devoid of original thought as nursing. Nursing requires
MG> knowledge and a prescried set of rules...but original thought is right
MG> out. Those nurses who have an ounce of intelligence move on to do
MG> other things including being managers and the like. If you only knew
MG> some of the stupid questions I've had over the years from these people.
No shit here. My sister (the NURSE) totally agrees with you. Which is why
she continues to take courses and get certifications to get out of the
robotic end of the profession, where your livelihood depends on being able
to say 'yes, doctor' with a smile on your face while wanting to scream
'asshole'.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Papyrus of Ani
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:15:00
EID:c0b3 223349e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A77E7D0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Steve Quarrella spoke thusly to Matt Weese <=-
SQ> BBS. I have no web site. :)
If you've got stuff not normally available on others' web sites, I'd
be glad to include it with your GOO when I get it done.
jbandsma@concentric.net
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 16 Jan 97 07:33:00
EID:515f 22303c20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A74AD22
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
CJ> Graphics-oriented object, right? Any particular format?
Graphics-oriented object, yes...but the name of the program is GOO.
(Kai's Power GOO in full) It works best on bitmaps but those can be
converted to more conventional .gifs and .jpgs for transmission. It's
a lot of fun.
CJ> text-based I and my circle are. The most recent photo of me is
CJ> about five years old--when I posed much less of a danger from
So, have you changed THAT much in 5 years? Doesn't matter anyway, especially
when I get finished with it.
CJ> particular reason for photographs that we saw.
On a serious note, yes there is a good reason for photographs...especially
taken with your kids. My mother died when I was 18. There is not ONE
picture of her with me or my sisters. It would be especially nice to have
at least one now that we all have kids of our own. (And grandkids in my
case)
CJ> In a little while. I'm trying to decide what local ISP to
CJ> go with.
Well, the page...at the moment...is defunct. It WILL be back, with more
of
a bite but it will take me a bit longer to do it as I have the shop open
now and not as much time as I had over the holiday hiatus. Evidently I
didn't make the martyr quotient high enough.
CJ> I must have done something wrong with my life. I usually
CJ> have the common fleeting recall of dreams, but I've never had a
CJ> test anxiety dream in my life.
That's the only test anxiety dream I ever had. And I've had about 4 dreams
in my life that have stayed with me...that being one. Really strange that
it has stayed with me so long. I wasn't even 16 when I had it.
CJ> And this instance was a particularly clear example of that.
CJ> Al was insisting that his usage of "war" was the one that
CJ> obtained, despite nearly unanimous usage the other way by the sf
Maybe I ought to do 2 GOO's of Al. Keep the blowfish...and also GOO his
face into the center of a broken record.
... When in doubt, throw a fireball at the guy in the back.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 16 Jan 97 08:35:00
EID:a0db 22304460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A74AD23
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
CJ> BTW, did you know that Beckett persistently claimed that
CJ> the 'Godot' of the title did not stand for "God"? One never knows
I didn't read that until long after I had read 'Godot' (on my own without
some instructor to interpret it for me). And I was a bit surprised that
anyone would see it AS standing for god.
It's been quite a while and I don't remember the characters names, but
I do remember thinking that what they were really waiting for was their
own inner resources of courage and independence to surface.
Guess that's another one that needs to be on my reread list. I just
wonder if my librarian will have an easier time with that one than she
did with Sophocles.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 16 Jan 97 07:58:00
EID:3b89 22303f40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A74AD24
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
CJ>> * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
CJ> * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1469
But it's counting upward again. Maybe it IS time to register it.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 14 Jan 97 08:50:00
EID:c73c 222e4640
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245BD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Mimi Milstein spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
Did I miss it? Was it in an earlier post? You seem to have left out the
URL for YOUR page.
MM> weird, even though I see the flames (but they are rather crummy).
MM> BTW, everything looks perfect on the pages of Al, Barb, Karen,
MM> and Lynda.
Gee, Mimi...the flames look crummy on my page but perfect on Lynda's?
That's a hoot...since I got the graphic from Lynda and is the EXACT same
one she uses.
MM> The portrait page comes through OK, but the character with the
MM> blue face and the sunglasses does not have any text to determine
MM> exactly whom you actually are portraying.
Are you really that dense?
MM> I really wish WWW pages gave something useful, without forcing
MM> surfers to waste money on waiting for idiotic pictures of no
MM> practical relevance. USA users may be having no problems, but
MM> the rest of us (paying for every second of long-distance phone
MM> time) see it once, and never again.
Then why even look? Whining to me because you have to pay ld rates for
something YOU choose to look at doesn't really make sense now does it?
If you want relevance, use your search engines and find whatever you
REALLY want.
I think your real bitch is that I hit the 10 ring with my shot at your
hero, Al.
Oh yes, thank you, Mimi. Since THIS page seems to annoy you so much, I've
dismantled it. Check in again in about a week. I'll know when you have
because the news on CNN will contain the report of an Afrikanner woman who's
head spontaneously exploded.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Spam me big boy!
|Date: 14 Jan 97 06:53:00
EID:5e68 222e36a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245BE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Katherine Wintersnight spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
KW> Is that why it went bald?
I'll have to send you the GOO. Or DCC it if we're ever in the channel
at the same time again.
The web page is defunct now.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 14 Jan 97 06:56:00
EID:ba8c 222e3700
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245BF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Mark Kimes spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
MK> the lame, cripped [sic], blind and sick actually being healed? Why,
MK> no, we don't, do we?
Well, the accounts in the bible show ONE example of each. Gee, that
coincides with the numbers you'll find in a faith healing revival. (Of
shills in the 'congregation')
Come to think of it, when Jesus was ASKED to heal someone, he flatly
refused because the person was the WRONG RELIGION. I wonder why that was?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 14 Jan 97 10:08:00
EID:5170 222e5100
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Brian Shreve spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-
BS> We as pro-choice have the same damn problem the pro-lifers do, the
BS> unwillingness for compromise, and the tendency to not at least try to
BS> walk a moment in their shoes, to see their view point. Instead, they
BS> get in our faces, and we get in their faces, and NOTHING gets worked
BS> out, in fact, it just keeps the anger and hatred going.
How do you figure that, Brian? As an avidly pro-CHOICE person, I see
not having an abortion is as valid a choice as having one. I don't have
to walk in their shoes to say 'your decision to carry a full term
pregnancy is YOUR decision and none of mine...best of luck to you'.
Their decision to SEE it as murder is not a problem for me either, as
long as they see that murder is a legal term and abortion does not
qualify under the law.
It is when the anti-choicers decide that I must live by what they believe
in that the problems start. I am not deciding for them. If *I* decided to
have an abortion, it doesn't affect them or their families in any way.
None. Why should they be allowed to choose what affects me and my family?
(I call them anti-choicers because, in order to truly be pro-LIFE they
would have to oppose all killing. Including the death penalty and war.
We know how often that happens.)
If those who oppose a woman's right to choose were doing anything to
offer other, viable, options then we might have common cause. Where are
the pickets at the clinics with signs that say 'let ME adopt your
unwanted child'? Or 'I have a job for you, with benefits, that will make
this abortion unnecessary'?
And where are the pro-LIFE people when we are trying to teach the kids
how NOT to get pregnant and maybe need an abortion in the first place?
Picketing, on the grounds that such instruction is 'immoral'.
Where are the pro-LIFE people when a girl is pregnant by incest? Pointing
the finger at HER and her 'evil' ways.
Pro-LIFE? Oxymoron. Heavy on the moron.
... It takes two to tango, but only the woman pays the price.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 14 Jan 97 11:52:00
EID:0717 222e5e80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> only twenty, or seventy-five, the hours or at most days of childbirth
AS> she might experience still remain excrutiatingly painful.
DC> And, unlike your god, the mother remains in contact with her
DC> child for the rest of her life.
Dan, Al's been reading too many Victorian novels again.
Yes I remember what it felt like. Excruciating? Hardly. The doctors had
to wake me up in the middle of a contraction to check me.
And I was completely awake for my last child's birth...by C-section.
(After trying for 2 days to start a natural labor)
Al tends to take what he knows HE wouldn't get through and make it into
a full-blown melodrama.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Yer Web Page
|Date: 14 Jan 97 12:09:00
EID:ee9d 222e6120
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C2
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Don Martin spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
DM> Being vain, I look forward to me and my bear pictured
DM> there.
Have scrapped the page. However, you should have your bear by now.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 14 Jan 97 12:13:00
EID:62d3 222e61a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Gwenny The Pooh spoke thusly to Marty Leipzig <=-
GTP> He claims to have posted what they are but hasn't reposted it.
Nope. Never posted a thing except some surrealistic poetry and a bad
rip off of a Beatles song. THAT's what he calls answering the question.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 14 Jan 97 12:17:00
EID:cc13 222e6220
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> J.j. Hitt spoke thusly to Mimi Milstein <=-
JH> For which, said character is more than just a little grateful.
Don't worry, it was GOO'd.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: archives
|Date: 14 Jan 97 16:25:00
EID:e16f 222e8320
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7245C5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
I'm looking for archives of the stupidest, most illogical and/or the
most repugnant posts to hit this echo. (In the last year only, please, I
don't have THAT much space.)
Please netmail them or send to jbandsma@concentric.net
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:02:00
EID:b529 222f3040
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380A7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to David Ragland <=-
AS> I'm perhaps not the one to ask, but I believe that the chimps HAVE
AS> asked for food, at least, when it's not present. But, not sure of
And Koko, the gorilla, gave every indication of understanding the concept
of death when her kitten died. I don't think you get much more abstract
than that.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:17:00
EID:956f 222f3220
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380A8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to J.j. Hitt <=-
DW> I wonder how long she'd last pulling a travoise?
It'd be good, healthy exercise, wouldn't it?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:20:00
EID:16e3 222f3280
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380A9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Gwenny The Pooh spoke thusly to Rod Swift <=-
GTP> What's the title?? I'll check it out.
Ferocious Animals? Beasts? Starts with Ferocious, anyway.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:33:00
EID:4006 222f3420
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380AA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Katherine Wintersnight spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
KW> Maybe we'll need a clothing optional floor . But, then, how will
KW> we keep the horny xtians out?
Put up a sign that says 'x floor reserved for IRS tax auditor convention'.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:35:00
EID:ca46 222f3460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380AB
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
RC> Not to mention that adopted children are wanted by those who do
RC> adopt them. That's more than can be said of some who aren't adopted.
Still, ALL adopted children...even those with the best families...go
through a stage where they are alternately convinced that they were
stolen from their birth parents (who were rich, beautiful, powerful and
never, ever yelled and made you clean your room or said no to anything)
and sold or were totally unwanted by same.
It's just part of the adoption dynamic. Most kids grow out of it. Some
don't. The ones who get stuck thinking their birth families had to be
even better usually get a big shock when/if they ever meet them. The
ones who feel like they were treated as you would the garbage are usually
unwilling to accept that the decision made was done for their best
interest.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 15 Jan 97 06:46:00
EID:08f9 222f35c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7380AC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> A teddy bear is real, and doesn't cost nearly as much.
Unless you buy a mink one.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 15 Jan 97 10:21:00
EID:f42d 222f52a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A73C721
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
JD> Where do you get it?...I've tried EVERY Italian grocery store
Just on the off chance that you AREN'T kidding.
Gouda is not Italian. It's Dutch.
With a name like deBoer (which translates to 'the farmer') I hope
you are joking.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 15 Jan 97 10:34:00
EID:7a74 222f5440
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A73C722
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Lynda Bustilloz spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig. Al prefers
LB> superhero comics.
How can anyone revere a character who hasn't changed his clothes in 50
years?
... "I'm getting in touch with my inner bitch" Nicole Hollander
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Faith And Healing
|Date: 21 Jan 97 18:53:26
EID:2d04 223596a0
RS> On 06-12-96 at 11:46, J.J. HITT wrote to ROD SWIFT:
JH> On Dec 02 21:07 96, Rod Swift of 3:690/660 wrote:
JH> RS> Rod "Did I mention I'll be back in Houston soon, and
JH> RS> probably going to Fuzzy's? With Patty Humphrey?" Swift :)
JH> Let me know when. Fuzzy's is only a mile or two from here.
JH> It's also right next door to the only Scientology Mission in
JH> Houston.
RS> Patrick and Dale-Ann are down near Fondren, about 3 miles from
RS> Fuzzy's. You should hear some of the things we've done to the
RS> Scienos there :)
It'd be nice if J.J. could here them from the staff that were there on the
day I turned 40, but alas, they seem to have been RPFed. (They could at
least pedal to the org -- beats running around a pole all day, any time.
:-)
RS> Rod "...ahh, I remember the day they were photographing the
RS> licence plates of each and ever car in the carpark to try and
RS> find out who we are :)" Swift ;)
Come to think of it, we may rent a car next time...
--PLH, how many free NOTS come with a car rental from Alamo?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: alternative views
|Date: 21 Jan 97 18:56:42
EID:1165 22359700
RS> On 10-12-96 at 20:15, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to ROD SWIFT:
PH> MH> ... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
PH> RS> I thought it was pepperoni and extra cheese on his Tombstone(tm).
PH> RS> Rod "a Fuzzy's clam pizza for your thoughts?" Swift
PH> No, no, no...they're STILL slightly enturbulated over the last one served
PH> at Fuzzy's. (The clams next door, I mean. Fuzzy is still happy, because
PH> he's got us for customers -- and we can afford a bit more than the
PH> occasional iced tea that the clams seem to specialize in...:-)
RS> They specialise only in the iced tea??? Doesn't the El Ron Cult
RS> pay enough? *guffaw*!
Fuzzy would -love- to have a few more customers with purchasing power, but
dammit, he just won't take the "free stress test" the clams have been
hawking for the last couple of months. :-)
PH> --Patrick L. "godless heathen *and* SP 3" Humphrey
RS> For the benefit of the echo, you might want to publish the ARSCC
RS> Suppressive Person Rank list :)
I'll have to dig it up when time permits at work.
RS> Rod "...i.e. what distinguishes and SP2 from an SP3 or SP4" Swift :)
Well, being a critic -- even as much as posting an article to
alt.religion.scientology critical of the cult -- gets you the SP 1 award.
The clams have reacted to my presence *or* something I've posted, thus I'm
an SP 3, at present -- but that *&^%$#@! 'Ho never sent me any e-mail
threatening me with legal action because I asked for a legal copy of NOTS,
so I'm still striving to make SP 4, someday...
--PLH, my bets are on Grady Ward to make SP 8 -- sue the bastards and win
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Faith And Healing
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:02:32
EID:2d04 22359840
RS> On 10-12-96 at 20:24, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to J.J. HITT:
PH> JH> On Dec 02 21:07 96, Rod Swift of 3:690/660 wrote:
PH> RS> Rod "Did I mention I'll be back in Houston soon, and
PH> RS> probably going to Fuzzy's? With Patty Humphrey?" Swift :)
PH> JH> Let me know when. Fuzzy's is only a mile or two from here.
PH> It's just a hair short of two miles from where Dale and I live, too.
(If I
PH> remember right, when we had the little conference at Genghis Khan, we
PH> hadn't yet moved over here right behind Sharpstown Giant Parking Lot.)
RS> I thought it was about 2-3 miles from Dale-Ann the Devious and
RS> Patrick the Godless Heathen :)
Trust me...I've pedaled up there far too many times to -not- know how far
it is. (Actually, though, it's 1.95 miles if I'm -not- suicidal and take
the safe route up Crossview, but 1.81 if I go for broke and dash up
Fondren. :-)
PH> JH> It's also right next door to the only Scientology Mission in
PH> JH> Houston.
PH> Trust us, we know. (Rod and Chris were with me there on the day I turned
PH> 40, whenever the hell *that* was...)
RS> As a matter of honour and respect, I don't disclose ages :) Oh,
RS> except to Allen Newton, and only to rile him up :) :)
Let's just say that my next birthday will be of interest to Douglas Adams
fans. :-)
PH> --Patrick L. "Grumpy Old Man in training" Humphrey
RS> You're not grumpy. If you were truly grumpy, you'd have had the
RS> entire crowd lynching us at the Solar Bears v Aeros game :)
The way we have the crowd going this season, it could be done --
fortunately, the Solar Bears have made their three visits to town, so
you're off the hook. :-)
RS> Rod "...who recently cancelled return tickets to the US because
RS> of the up-in-the-air nature of the Baehr v Miike appeal :(" Swift :)
Ouch...and just when we decided -not- to spend the coming weekend in Utah
watching that certain hockey team of ours play there. Instead, we'll have
to rile the folks in Cleveland in April. :-)
--PLH, a six-by-eight foot Texas flag oughta do it...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Lying Jones Scum
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:08:24
EID:727c 22359900
RS> * On 14-12-96 at 16:05, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
RS> on the topic of "Lying Jones Scum" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ~*~ Just shut up and sit back down and ride the bus like the rest of
us.
FR> - Patrick Humphrey
RS> I'd sorely love to know the context of this one, Fredric or
RS> Patrick :)
RS> Rod "...just for interest's sake" Swift :)
Don't ask me...I'm a Method actor for the part of Grumpy Old Man, remember?
:-)
--PLH, I hope -someone- can tell me if that quote is archived at Deja News,
though...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Balanced treatment.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:09:58
EID:9398 22359920
RS> * On 16-12-96 at 16:34, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Balanced treatment." in echo Holysmoke:
PH> RS> That's it, you and 'partner' are invited to my wedding too :)
PH> RS> Rod "...that's another two Houstonites coming along!" Swift
PH> A*hem*. Dale and I are _Houstonians_. Houstonites come down here from
up
PH> north. Houstonians grow from the ground up. (Or something like that.)
RS> Oh, right... :) So, what does that make Dakotans? *wink*
I don't know, but considering Dale's family, I don't think I want to find
out, either. :-)
PH> --PLH, how many people wanna ride up for the wedding in the back of
the Red
PH> Menace?
RS> Woowoo! JJ in the Red Menace? hahaha :) Perish the thought.
RS> How are things going over there for you and Dale, Patrick?
Just muddling through the usual routines, while awaiting the arrival of
our
first grandson -- any day now...
RS> Rod "...it's just too hot here right now in Oz" Swift :(
It's only going to get up to 24 C here tomorrow. The Ice Age is back upon
us.
--PLH, it beats the -20C up in Dale's old neighborhood...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Dig
|Date: 21 Jan 97 21:30:26
EID:c419 2235abc0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e589d2
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e4d6ae
Don solemnly sayith the following:
DM> Atheistic beliefs? Care to list a few?
Atheistic view points & Christian view points.
Cut me some slack, will ya! pic pic pic pic pic picky!
DM> There is some hope for you, then.
Watchit fella, that's a sign of faith.
DM> apparently accept an assertion of "sacred" from ignorance,
DM> and leave the site unexamined.
I may be misreading you, but it seems that you have something against
sacred beliefs held by much of our society, valid or not...the proof isn't
in...(and woant be in all liklihood till long after our demise)
I'd prefer not to believe that, so I pose it as a question, and even if
you said you held nothing sacred (which I would doubt), I think I would
not believe it.
Irregardless (sure wish Websters would make that a word), why does it
raise your ire when a site that is 6,000 yrs old is forbidden to you
to dig upon due to a communities claim of sacred/holy ground? I don't
understand...help me to understand your view.
Brian
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: More grist for your mill
|Date: 21 Jan 97 08:08:00
EID:699d 22354100
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e4f5a31
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Jim Staal <=-
Good morning, ROd.
I hope you didn't miss this.
LA> Good for you then. We need more like that. Incidentally
LA> my daughter married a man who was born in Holland and whose
LA> parents migrated to Australia. He is a fine man and has been
LA> a good husband. Does the name Van Leeuwen, sound like a
LA> typical "stubborn Hollander"? :-) He is also a sincere and
LA> dedicated Christian and Creationist!
Take care.
... They jest at scars that never felt a wound. (Shakespeare)
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Descended from Monkeys.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 08:15:00
EID:7304 223541e0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e4f5a41
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Rod Swift <=-
Good morning, Laurie.
LA> "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the
LA> power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has
LA> scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer
LA> the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock,
LA> he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been there
LA> for centuries."
LA> (God and the Astronomers, Robert Jastrow, (1978), p. 116)
LA> (Ref: Mysteries of Creation, p. 95)
You haven't read Jastrow either, have you, Laurie. Either that or you are
once more misrepresenting an authority to invent support for your position.
Hint: the theologians he was talking about were NOT young earth
Creationists.
Take care.
... I can't believe that out of 100,000 sperm, you were the quickest. -
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Darrow and Ethics.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 11:52:00
EID:cf85 22355e80
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e4f5a61
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to David Ragland <=-
Good morning, Laurie.
RM>Your continued willingness to violate basic principles of ethics is what
RM>has all the Christians in this forum running away from you. Have you
RM>noticed that even Andrew, who originally supported you, is now trying
to
RM>distance himself from you? To his credit, he cannot abide your lack
of
RM>ethics any more than I can.
DR> Don't let that get to ya Laurie. I didn't back away
DR> from you in Skeptical Inquiry and I won't do so in here
DR> either. Us blathering fundies gotta stick together no
DR> matter what! :)
LA> Thanks David. It seems that 'RM' must be desperately short
LA> of anything intelligent to say when he makes such silly,
LA> unjustified and defamatory statements.
Getting back into name calling, eh? The truth in this case might be
"silly", but the truth is never "unjustified", and if the truth is
"defamatory", well, you are in control of that, Laurie. Just stop
doing those things that you consider "defamatory" when someone else points
them out.
LA> However, seems like I have not had enough time to read all
LA> the other messages that have been left here.
. Yeah, sure. The messages that you wish to ignore, somehow go
unread, eh?
LA> The only "Andrew" that I have found on my list so far is Andrew
LA> Masten,
That's the Andrew to whom I was referring.
LA> and so far he has not "distanced himself" from me
LA> anyway.
He certainly has. The relevant passage, which you are pretending never
existed:
AM> Without belaboring the point, I concede that Laurie, in what is
AM> evidently misguided enthusiasm, has gone over the line. Its too
AM> bad, because I think creationism can stand on its own merits
AM> without out resorting to unsavory tactics in its defense.
"Over the line". "Unsavoury tactics". I'd call that distancing himself.
Perhaps, in your "misguided enthusiasm" you consider such comments to be
high praise.
LA> Perhaps there is such a message from him in my
LA> "capture" files that has not yet "surfaced"!
C'mon, Laurie. Andrew posted that back in December. I missed it the
first time due to feed problems, but I saw the relevant passage quoted
back to Andrew in a note from Martin. I quoted that part again in a note
to Andrew, asking him to repost the original, which he did.
So, the relevant passage, (which contains YOUR NAME) has been posted here
at least 4 times that I am aware of. You expect us to believe that you
missed a passage that contains your own name four separate times?
You just _wish_ we had missed it.
LA> The alternative is that RM is all confused - AGAIN!!
. I'm not confused at all, in spite of your attempts to create
confusion. Andrew is embarassed by your tactics, and you know it.
LA> No one
LA> has shown that the statement attributed to Clarence Darrow
LA> about "absolute bigotry to teach only view of origins" was
LA> not said by him.
We don't have to. What we have shown is that you have absolutely no basis
for claiming that he DID say it. You are putting words in his mouth, pure
and simple. That is an extremely dishonest tactic. You know it is
dishonest, but you just can't bring yourself to stop doing it.
Your ethics are pathetic, Laurie. No wonder Andrew want's no part of
trying to defend you. If David wants to be put in the same category as
a
demonstrated liar, that's a telling admission of his own ethical standards.
Take care.
... They jest at scars that never felt a wound. (Shakespeare)
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
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|From: Darryl Gonzalez
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Mormonism isn't even close to Christianity
|Date: 20 Jan 97 23:00:00
EID:0ee2 2234b800
MSGID: 1:383/6293 32DB100D
Hi Dan.
Sorry, guys, Mormonism isn't even CLOSE to Christianity, or at least, not
as
close as the LDS church would have you believe. The church which Jesus
Christ
founded did not have temples in which secret (excuse me, "sacred") rituals
were performed. The church which Jesus Christ founded did not have the
Book
of Mormon, nor the Doctrine & Covenants, nor the Pearl of Great Price.
The
church which Jesus Christ founded had neither the Aaronic nor Melchisedec
Priesthoods.
The church which Jesus Christ founded did not have wards, nor stakes. The
church which Jesus Christ founded did not have Quorums of the Seventy.
The
church which Jesus Christ founded did not have many of the doctrines which
the
Mormons teach and preach as truth.
With all that being said, what did the church of Jesus Christ have? It
had
(and still has) one thing that I wish all Mormons truly had, which they
pretend to have....JESUS! And it's my sincere prayer that all Mormons strip
away all of that non-Biblical nonsense that's been taught to them by their
LDS
leaders, and come to know the real Jesus Christ, Who loved them enough to
die
for their sins.
Is that your prayer, too? If it is, and you are a Mormon, repent of your
sins
and ask Jesus Christ to come into your life today. Then leave the church.
Find a nearby Baptist or Assemblies of God church, and join it. I'll be
praying for you.
- Pedit Ver 2.5
--- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3
* Origin: The Warrior's Path 915-659-2424 *Texas* V32b V42b (1:383/6293)
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|From: Darryl Gonzalez
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Re: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 20 Jan 97 23:32:00
EID:6597 2234bc00
MSGID: 1:383/6293 32DB1774
Hi Marilyn.
I hate to disagree with you (disagreement NEVER happens on this echo, right?
), but a few years ago, I did research on the Star of Bethlehem which
leads
me to believe that Christ was actually born on Sept. 15, 7 B.C., or at least
sometime within mid-September of 7 B.C. Let me illustrate why:
As we now know, the wise men (and there were probably more than three) were
probably astrologers. Thus they would have been well versed in the meaning
and appearance of the objects in the night sky. Beginning in 8 B.C., Jupiter
and Saturn did a sort of "interplanetary dance" that can be best described
as
a triple conjunction. This means that the two planets appeared very close
together in the sky, then (over a period of several weeks, or even months)
one
planet would appear to get more and more distant from the other. Then the
planet which was "ahead" of the other would go into what's called *retrograde
motion*, which is an apparent backwards motion. (It's really an optical
illusion of sorts, caused by the complexity of orbital mechanics.) This
would
happen, again, over a period of several weeks or months, until a second
appearance together would occur. Then, either the other planet would go
into
retrograde motion, or the first would begin to move forward again. And
there
you have your third conjunction.
Jupiter was regarded as the star of royalty, and Saturn the star of godhood.
Thus various configurations of these "stars" (the Greeks first called them
wandering stars, or planetes, from which we get the term planets) in different
constellations would mean different things. Particularly of interest to
this
discussion is that the third conjunction occurred in the constellation Virgo,
the virgin. The constellation names and meanings were the same for the
ancient Magi as they are for modern astrologers. (And, for the millionth
time, astronomy IS NOT astrology!!!!! Astronomy is the study of the stars,
planets and space in general, while astrology is the practice of divination
based on the positions of the planets! Astronomers simply use the
constellations as a "road map" of the night sky.)
The third conjunction occurred in mid-September, 7 B.C. Best visibility
(assuming, of course, clear weather, which I have no way of knowing about)
would have occurred on or about September 15.
- Pedit Ver 2.5
--- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Ask and Ye Shan't Receive
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:54:38
EID:9650 22358ec0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c42209a8
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e33302
On (17 Jan 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Jim Staal...
LB> Rod and Jim were killing time yakking about Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv:
JS> No prob: there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
JS> would have mentioned it.
RS> Computers don't exist. If they did, the bible would have
RS> mentioned them.
JS> Non applicable. We are talking about apples and oranges here.
JS> Computers are a man-made item. Life on other planets would have been
an
JS> item made by the Creator.
LB> And maybe nothing he thought was any of YOUR business to tell you
LB> about.
Now there's a plausible explanation. :)
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:57:32
EID:83d1 22358f20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 fb96b182
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e33355
On (18 Jan 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Jim Staal...
LB> Rod and Jim were killing time yakking about Always Downward!:
JS> Perhaps, but the Lovely Wilbur [tm] has done nothing to deserve such
JS> abuse.
RS> She's involved with you. That's abuse enough!
JS> Evidence!?
LB> That she's involved with you? You have a point there, Jimmy....we have
LB> none. ;)
Judging by the first and second generation offspring we have, I would
say we were rather deeply involved with each other...
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 21 Jan 97 12:24:50
EID:ea2f 22356300
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e5039d
REPLY: 1:261/1137 35008dc6
Curtis Johnson said "native americans" to Don Martin,
adding:
CJ>> Without a domesticated "beast of burden," of what use
CJ>> would a wheel have been?
DM> Actually, central American Amerinds did have wheeled
DM> _toys_ before Columbus brought civilization to these shores,
DM> so they were not quite so hopeless as some would maintain:
DM> they understood the principle and the construction of the
CJ> I've seen photographs of one such toy.
CJ> An additional barrier, I suppose, was the general
CJ> consideration that a circle (and therefore a wheel) seems to have
CJ> been considered a generally sacred symbol.
I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but I'll bet
the _roller_ was used by those stone-moving cats in Central
and South America. Interesting point about the sacredness of
the circle, but the presence of a wheel on a toy argues
against the shape's being tabu (unless the kid who owned the
toy was the equivalent of the Dali Lama or something).
CJ> I've read an interesting alternate history by Harry
CJ> Turtledove which _Homo erectus_ survived in N. America, and
CJ> mammoths drew freight along railways.
Another interesting point: notice that elephants are
used for carrying (both trunk and back), pushing, and
dragging logs and such, but not for drawing. I have never
seen an elephant cart depicted anywhere. Certainly it has
the mass and the strength to draw, but somehow has
apparently not been found suitable for the task.
DM> RE: the previous message--Another matrilineal tribe,
DM> incidentally, is the Hopi.
CJ> Whatever the arguments about matri_archy_, matrilineality
CJ> did recognize a blunt fact: a child might not always know its own
CJ> father, but it's quite difficult to not recognize its mother.
CJ> Application to the New Testament is left as an exrercise to
CJ> the persipicacious.
_That_ crowd has already been there, done that, got the
tee-shirt . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 12:47:20
EID:b2fe 223565e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32e5039e
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32e41a60
Jonathan Fingas said "Hypocritical people" to Glen Todd,
adding:
GT> Evidence of this, please? And even if true, why
GT> would an avatar or incarnation of the god of Abraham be
GT> of any interest whatsoever to us non-Abrahamics?
JF> It's called THE BIBLE.
Sorry, books of propaganda (propaganda: writings to
propagate the faith) don't count as evidence for imaginary
superfriends. If you wish them to, you must accept what the
Vedas have to say about a bunch of gods you have probably
never heard of.
The fact that such books are inclined to proclaim
themselves to be THE TRVTH does not, I fear, make them so.
Now, have you any real _evidence_ that your deity is
anything more than a product of human imagination?
JF> You certainly don't have any proof that
JF> Jesus DIDN'T turn water into wine,
Every time somebody asks for evidence around here, some
idiot fundy thinks the guy said "proof". No, Glen did not
mention proof, a much more difficult thing than evidence.
He asked for evidence.
Got any?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:57:06
EID:62e5 22358720
Whilst masticating on , George Mooth (1:2285/100)
wrote to Robert Curry:
GM> Another lie. Satan is full of lies.
Satan doesn't exist. Thus, it is as full of lies as the Tooth Fairy, the
Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.
--- MsgedSQ/2 3.35
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 21 Jan 97 18:53:00
EID:6eea 223596a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 ecda1d0c
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32e2104a
On (19 Jan 97) Paul Davis babbled to Marilyn Burge...
PD> fact that it needs to grow in order to cause a problem (I don't know
PD> if this is true of leukemia however). This takes time and therefore
it
PD> would be more prevalent in those who surpass a certain age, with
PD> regards to the younger sufferers that is?
PD> You could also argue that older sufferers, such as lung cancer
PD> sufferers due to smoking would neccesarily have to be of a certain
PD> age.
As I originally said: the incidence of cancer is a function
of age. You are simply saying the same thing in a different
way.
PD> PD>> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
MB> Neither. I'm a freethinker.
PD> Isn't that an Atheist? :)
Not nnecessarily.
... "Never test the depth of a river with both feet." -Old Polish proverb
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:02:46
EID:4ca0 22359840
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 adb0320b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e44156
On (20 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Marilyn Burge...
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether
AS> prayer actually works or not?
MB> You aren't really looking for a "better suggestion," as that
MB> language suggests that the one you've already come up with is good
MB> but needs some improvement. The one you've come up with, in actual
MB> fact, sucks.
MB> What you need is a GOOD suggestion to begin with, and there is
MB> none.
AS> Would you care to make one?
AS> I'm serious, Marilyn. Can you think of a good suggestion of a way to
AS> test for prayer?
I have already stated in detail why it would be impossible to set
up a double-blind test. Accept it. That's the way it is. It's
impossible.
... Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Fickle Finger
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:49:50
EID:5c74 22359e20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a9a996be
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e38e8f
20 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Don Martin to Ed Mills:
EM> Please talk to me.
EM> PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE??????
DM> Blatant sucking up to a fundy loon will get you nowhere, Mills.
DM> You might try moving to the antipodes, though.
It would be easier to get a rise out of him from New Zealand?
I seem to be smelling F-16 exhaust fumes again.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 21:00:34
EID:68de 2235a800
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 5a1ee253
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 86ec652a
On (21 Jan 97) Sally Springett babbled to Marilyn Burge...
DC> So, just how many more females are born as compared to males?
DC> I knew it was a couple of percentage points. Has that
DC> increased?
MB> At birth, there are 51 males for every 50 females. But, males
MB> are more apt to die in the first year. Then teenage nonsense
MB> like playing chicken behind the wheel takes over a widens the
MB> gap even further. It used to be that war widened it even more
MB> after that, but that hasn't been so lately. Then, in old age,
MB> men die sooner than women by about 5 years.
SS> Thirty years ago it was 53 boys to 50 girls (or, as the numbers were
SS> given to me, 106 to 100). That has changed? What could cause the
SS> change?
I could be wrong. I'll have to look at some birth statistics
that are broken down by gender and get back to you on this.
I thought I remembered the nurses telling me the numbers I
gave you when Louie was born 30 years ago, but, memory fades
when you get past a certain age. 8-(
... "Daddy, what does "formatting non-removable drive c:/99% complete" mean?"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: brett johnson; jealou
|Date: 21 Jan 97 21:43:16
EID:8f61 2235ad60
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 2fd90cb0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 35008c3f
On (21 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Brett Johnson...
CJ> Except that above you defined the nature of the sacred as
CJ> 'you shall not have other gods besides me.'
He's misquoting Judaic scripture, anyway. the correct quote is
"thou shalt have no other gods BEFORE me." The difference is
significant. If you'll read on in that text, Jehovah says he's a
jealous god and insists on FIRST PLACE. That strongly suggests
that whoever wrote that text (it wasn't Moses, for sure, but you
twitty friend probably thinks it was) recognized the fact that
there WERE other gods, and Jehovah simply wanted to be first.
To further put the text in context, Originally the Israelites were
polytheists. During their exile in Egypt, Ramoses I was pharoah.
He was probably the first monotheist, but was having one deuce of
a time selling the idea to the populace.
Ramoses knew that a famine was about to start in the land, and he
also knew that there wasn't enough grain in storage to feed both
the Egyptians AND the Israelites. He convinced his son Ramoses II
to lead the Israelites out of Egypt in a way that would not let
them know that the Pharoah was behind the plot, figuring that if
they did know, they would think the plot was a trap.
He further instructed Ramoses II to make a deal with the
Israelites to become monotheists as part of the bargain, and in
return for them giving up their polytheism, he would lead them out
of Egypt. Ramoses II made the deal with the Israelites, and he led
them out of exile. But, the Israelites at that time didn't fully
buy into the idea of monotheism, but instead became monists. A
monist is somebody who has many gods, but thinks there is one Big
Kahuna, who, in this particular case, was Jehovah.
It is no accident that the names Ramoses and Moses are as close as
they are. Many OT scholars believe that Ramoses II WAS Moses, and
that he convinced them to HAVE NO OTHER GOD __BEFORE__ Jehovah!
_Mythology's Last Gods_ is a pretty good read. It was originally a
doctoral dissertation that later became a modestly selling book.
The author's name is William Harwood. It's in that book, the whole
story.
... Some minds should be cultivated; others plowed under.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Patriot
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:31:54
EID:24f5 22350be0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e462da
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e29ba3
REALNAME: Ken Young
DW> 18 Jan 97 17:18, Patriot wrote to Jan deBoer:
P> But no, He shall be coming, and very soon.. But even if it wasn't
P> true, so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what if
P> non-Christians are wrong? What do they lose? A great deal more..
DW> Pascal's Wager *again*?
DW> Can't you morons come up with *anything* new?
DW> Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other
DW> possible gods? Don't you think they're gonna be a
DW> little pissed that you spent your life worshipping Jehovah?
You tell me.. DO many of them have much against worshipping other gods?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:33:58
EID:f94c 22350c20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e46356
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e23097
REALNAME: Ken Young
Pa> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should actually be
Pa> the pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the ride.
DC> That explains why your car looks like it's been recycled already.
I KNEW someone was spying on me.. :)
ANd I said we SHOULD let Him take over. I never said we always do.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 21 Jan 97 01:35:36
EID:c3bd 22350c60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e463b8
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e23220
REALNAME: Ken Young
-> On 18 Jan 97 12:12:42, Patriot got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
Pa> And what do we base this on? That he fell? That he made a mistake?
Pa> Or could it just be because he is a man of God
Pa> that you disagree with?
DC> No, it's all based on the fact that Swaggart is a lying sack of
DC> shit that uses his religion as an exuse to continue to be a
DC> lying sack of shit.
Oh, he lies? Then I am sure you have an example or two so we will know
you aren't just talking..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:39:32
EID:cedd 223584e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e53794
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 d51ba35f
REALNAME: Ken Young
P > And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign
P > father of the USA, were Christians..
MB> YOU do YOUR homework. Many of them were deists, which is a long loooooong
MB> way from being a Christian -- especially by today's definition.
I already did, but I would be more than happy to do YOUR homework for you..
Give a couple names and I will see if I can prove they were Christians.
SOME were deists, most were not. From Washington to Adams, America's history
is full of great Christian leaders.
MB> Some of them were blatant unbelievers, and MOST of them were opposed
MB> to organized churches.
Nope.. Against governmental control of the church, sure.. But not against
the church itself..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:48:26
EID:9872 22358600
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e539aa
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1f7781ee
REALNAME: Ken Young
AS> He has read them all already....and yours.
RC> And -IF- he was god, then crucifixion was nothing at all for him to
RC> handle the way you or I might deal with a hangnail. Ouch! There, all
RC> gone now. No big deal. Nothing at all compared to the real people
RC> who really and truly did suffer the agonies of crucifixion, lasting
RC> sometimes for days.
He came as man, thus He could feel pain like any other man..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:22:42
EID:0a6d 22358ac0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e541b2
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32df4e88
REALNAME: Ken Young
BJ> But truly, if you believe life to be sacred, is it
BJ> not then horrible for
BJ> you to see a culture so hateful towards life, even
GtP> the lives of it's own
BJ> species? To see them as a commodity...people only
BJ> having economic value?
GtP> Yes. That is why I loathe Christianity. And
GtP> everything it stands for. I loathe that woman are
GtP> property, the children belong to parents, that the
GtP> church authority considers it has the right to control
GtP> other's live and then charge them (tithe) for it, and
GtP> that some god thinks he has any right to judge me.
GtP> But you don't see me blowing up churches or shooting
GtP> ministers.
EVERYTHING it stands for? To me, CHristanity stands for love, peace, justice,
and freedom.. Not exactly horrible concepts..
Christianity does not teach women are to be property.. One could, however,
argue if it says that women have less of a say so than men in some instances..
CHildren certainly belong to the parents.. If not, than who do they belong
to?
DO you have the right to raise them as you see fit? Then you own them..
On the church authority, I will agree with you partially. The manmade church
itself has no right to control others, but if that church is going according
to God's wishes, then they are doing nothing wrong.
If CHristians are right about God, then doesn't it make sense that the creator
should have every right in the world to judge who He created?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 20 Jan 97 11:35:44
EID:9731 22345c60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e35890
-> On 19 Jan 97 07:32:14, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
DC> of the water.
JS> Which current message might that be?
Grt back on your meds, Jimbo. You are embrassing yourself again.
... "Everything you write in here is held against you." J. Musselwhite
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:54:22
EID:c5a0 22358ec0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e502ce
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:05:09, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
Pa> mistake? Or could it just be because he is a man of God that
Pa> you disagree with?
DC> No, it's all based on the fact that Swaggart is a lying sack
DC> of shit that uses his religion as an exuse to continue to be
MB> How ANYBODY can defend a man who has propositioned a prostitute
MB> for the services of her 9-year-old daughter is beyond my
MB> Who in the hell would even WANT to agree with slime like THAT?
Besides Ken Young? Jimbo Staal, of course.
... "Swaggart is no con man. He is a former televangelist!" Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 21 Jan 97 22:13:08
EID:4fe5 2235b1a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e53f75
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:14:14, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> You have to remember the the Sioux didn't leave Minnesota and head
DC> west because of something Horace Greely said. They were kicked
MB> Minnesota is, broadly speaking, part of the plains I was talking
I tend to think of the Great Plains as being on the west side of
the Mississippi River.
MB> about. I believe the mean elevation of Minnesota is something like 50
MB> feet; that's why it's the Land of a Thousand Lakes.
It can't be that low. I don't have a geographical reference handy,
but I'm sure it's at least 750 to 1000 feet in mean elevation.
After all, the Miss. R. drops at least that much from it's source.
... "Bother," said Capt. Pooh, as antimatter containment was lost.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Sister Syph
|Date: 21 Jan 97 22:16:24
EID:5b2e 2235b200
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e54038
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:22:33, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
Jd> A nude photo of Mother Theresa would be equally effective......
MB> There's a little book about her called _The Missionary Position._
MB> It tears her to shreds.
Is there a nude picture in or at least one in a bikini?
Also, is the title a pun or just relating to her views?
... +Origin: SOTS NETWORK: "IHSh NOTS! fer Jeezuz!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 21 Jan 97 22:23:28
EID:05bf 2235b2e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e541e1
-> On 19 Jan 97 21:59:00, Sally Springett got back to Martin Goldberg
MG> The last one got a pizza sent to his house at midnight just
MG> for being a fool.
SS> If I do a really, really good job of looking like a fool will
SS> some benevolent stranger send _me_ a pizza?
Sure! Send your address and phone number and I'll order one
for you as soon as I get it.
(You do realize that it'll be jalapeno and anchovie and that
it comes Collect!)
... An atheist with a Bible is a fundie's worst nightmare!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Jan 97 00:53:00
EID:dc21 223606a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e564ec
-> On 20 Jan 97 15:22:40, Jonathan Fingas got back to Glen Todd
JF> It's called THE BIBLE. You certainly don't have any proof that
JF> Jesus DIDN'T turn water into wine, feed 5000 with a lone basket of
Do you have any proof that Easter Bunny doesn't exist?
... More people have been killed for religion than for any other cause.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 22 Jan 97 00:55:14
EID:be2f 223606e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56573
-> On 20 Jan 97 19:15:26, Curtis Johnson got back to Dan Ceppa
CJ> where the question to the MegalomaniaUnivac is "Is there a God,"
CJ> and the computer answers, "There is now," and strikes down with
CJ> lightning the electrical engineer diving for the outlet.
"Damn engineers! Can't get nothing right!"
... Unlike others, I can spell 'Rensselaer'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:03:22
EID:a31d 22360860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e5675b
-> On 20 Jan 97 19:15:27, Curtis Johnson got back to Dan Ceppa
CJ>> Without a domesticated "beast of burden," of what use
CJ>> would a wheel have been?
DC> Thing is, they had such a critter to pull the travoise. No
DC> wheels, but the means to make it move.
CJ> Dog? Not much a dog cart could have traveled.
CJ> Horse--well, at the least you're talking time period. IIRC, both
CJ> dogs and horses were used for travois.
One more, but I'm saving that one for Tiger Eyes to ask for!
... +Origin: Patalas Network: Kneeses for Jee-sus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:12:22
EID:dc21 22360980
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56976
-> On 20 Jan 97 15:35:50, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Yes, they should. Those lies were taught to me by my minister.
JF> What lies? Can you prove they were? Unless you've got a time
How about this one that you accede to:
===================
CJ> Looks like you didn't bother to read as far as John 2.
JF> Okay, I MAY have been wrong about Jesus carrying a whip. But I
JF> don't recall Him actually whipping people, hmm?
===================
Is you memory that short or are you just a fundy?
JF> travel machine in your basement, guess not! Let me guess.... you're
JF> rich, aren't you? Only the people with no material want ignore God.
Let me state: You are a fundy fool and revel in the shit you
strew.
JF> Then the second they have a problem, they come crawling back.
JF> those cults which recruits extremely gullible people. Legality only
See above. You have no mind of your own, only the dogma that
has been forced down your throat by your masters.
DC> No, I was religious, then I got better.
JF> How is non-religiousness better? Non-religiousness only promotes
When was the last time someone was murdered at a abortion clinic
by an atheist?
JF> greed and a lack of respect for your fellow man, which you obviously
JF> have in spades. Besides, wouldn't you actually WANT to have somewhere
You're a joke. A dangerous joke.
JF> goes so far. Don't forget, in Nazi Germany it was "legal" to round
up
JF> Jews and slaughter them.
DC> Nazi Germany learned it bigotry via xianity.
JF> Ah, noticed how you convieniently sidestepped a real answer.
What, that your religion is a bigotted piece of shit? The
evidence for that would be in front of your face if you
ever got your head out of your ass.
JF> And as I've constantly said, it wasn't the teachings of Christianity
JF> that spawn evil - it's the people (such as Adolf Hitler), who twist
it
Yep, a Christian.
JF> around and omit things to further their own ends and beliefs.
Yep, more Christian doctrine.
... And the idiot says in his mind that there is a god. Styx 1:152
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:18:10
EID:dc21 22360a40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56ad2
-> On 20 Jan 97 15:35:50, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa
JF> IS) God come down to Earth as a human. I'm not referring to the books
DC> So, who was he praying to in the Garden?
JF> As you would learn if you would READ THE BIBLE, there is a Father,
That's god number one.
JF> Son,
That's god number two.
JF> and Holy Spirit.
That's god number three.
And you call yourself a monotheist? Hell, you can't even count!
JF> references to it), always will be. Jesus (the Son) was talking to the
JF> Father.
Therefore, at your insistance, you worship at least three gods. And,
one of those gods told another one of them to stuff it an die.
Nice death cult you believe in.
... It's *really* too bad that stupidity like yours isn't more painful!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:22:24
EID:dc21 22360ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56bd1
-> On 20 Jan 97 15:12:46, Jonathan Fingas got back to Curtis Johnson
JF> Because He knew that the temple leaders were almost ready to get Him
JF> - if you remember things BEFORE that time, namely Jesus identifying
JF> Judas as the traitor and the subsequent actual betrayal.
Did you ever stop to think and not have your head run up your
ass?
Judas was the _only_ member of your godling's group that
was an Israelite. All the others where from Galilea.
... Quick! Close your mind! Something blasphemous might get in.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:33:08
EID:c1c6 22360c20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56e55
-> On 19 Jan 97 15:00:07, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> About the only person not mentioned is the pope!
DM> As the world's highest-ranking Official Celibate, His Holiness
DM> must avoid being seen having sex with anyone else.
Not even altar boys?
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.
DC> Please place a warning bell around her neck so I can avoid her!
DM> With what? I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot thong.
DM> Besides, you're closer!
Oh, thanks! Make me sleep with a night light on and spending
my days setting land mines in my around my place.
BTW, I have the settings for "No-brainer". Send Staal
around to let me give them a test.
... "I'm god, not a taxonomist, damn it to hell, Jim!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:36:28
EID:c1c6 22360c80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e56f1c
-> On 19 Jan 97 15:36:18, Don Martin got back to Sally Springett
DM> but was unsuccessful. Waitaminnit! Somebody Maiden has recently
DM> started posting on this echo. Perhaps she'll know. (I just hope that
DM> she was not the writer of the letter when out from under the
DM> handle.)
Damn! It's time for me to get the hell out of here! They
are getting to close.
Does the Adromeda Galaxy require passports?
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he pitched his pennies off the Sears tower
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: test
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:40:46
EID:050f 22360d00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e5701f
-> On 17 Jan 97 17:24:45, John Musselwhite got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> This a a test of OMX/BW & Terminate
JM> Your tests came back... they're positive.
At least better than those that Staal god back on his ]
brain scan. They found absolutely nothing.
JM> Now you'll have to go get your shots, you know... B-})
"Pull!" "Smasssshhh!" Yep, my aim is still good.
... "Be fuckers and multiply...." -- Genesis 1:22 (paraphrased)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:53:28
EID:3300 22360ea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e57319
-> On 17 Jan 97 16:51:42, John Musselwhite got back to Dan Ceppa
LA> Scablands as told by dear old S.J. Gould. Here is some bits
DC> Perhaps you should try reading the book and understanding it before
JM> What? Laurie actually READ a book? Especially a book by that
JM> nazi satanist SJG? GOD FORBID!
He can't, as he doesn't know what a "book" is, other than
the RQB, as you noted.
JM> quotes and has just posted crap from the RQB. He's a charlatan,
JM> and all we can do is hound him until everyone knows it.
With a bit of luck, those that need to be hounded as well
will actually know why. If they look at the facts...
JM> He's the only person ever to enter this echo who has managed to
JM> bring that level of invective out of me. He may be the only
JM> person ANYWHERE who has been able to do that!
There's a couple of current & former posters that have been
in here that do the same to me. And, one current idiot, Staal
be his name. What can I say othe that my fuse is a bit(?)
shorter than yours.
Thanks for your posts.
... All Truths begin as blasphemies. George Bernard Shaw
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ???
|Date: 21 Jan 97 10:09:00
EID:ab15 22355120
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E58AE3
AS> DR> You mean just like Elvis, Horus, Krishna, etc. Just how
AS> DR> often do you ask the other sacrificed gods for "forgiveness?"
AS> DR> There's at least 15 sons of god who were crucified BEFORE
AS> DR> your favorate son of god.
AS> Name one besides Christianity which has people of the same generation
AS> saying they saw the god resurrected...and so underwent persecution
AS> (torture, imprisonment, and death) because of it.
What about the god of homosexual. Those who are not class
as the normal, will undergo all of the above.
[ this has happen ] still happens. Gay people must be the
only Real True Humans.They know ahead of time what might happen
to them.
Then too what of the god of blacks.
Those who are not class as the normal, will undergo all of the above.
Perhaps not so much in this day and age, but in the pass.The black who
stood up for human rights of blacks went through all this shit.
Are Blacks, the only Real True Humans. Blacks also knew ahead of
time what would happen if they stood for their rights. Some still tried.
Or is it only those who have Al's God, who are Real True Humans.
Forget the gods, look to the humans who go against the current
grain of socity. Or does it only apply to a one time event and never
happen before that event and has never happen since ?
How does humans getting beaten to death for their belief show
any kind of evidence for a god happening. If and a BIG IF Al, it may
help your real god. Show how it only happen once and never again.
Otherwwise it's all just so much bullshit and shows nothing to
back a Jesus belief.
So they knew what may happen, big deal. Many before and after
have gone the same route and still go through it.
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * B-1 stealth fighter-bombers for Superstitious Beliefs!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ????
|Date: 21 Jan 97 10:25:00
EID:df2a 22355320
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E58AE4
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-19-97 (07:12) Number: 39574
From: AL SCHROEDER Refer#: NONE
To: ROBERT CURRY Recvd: NO
Subj: omni-sadistic Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS> RC> BTW, where is Jesus when little children are raped right before
AS> RC> his allegedly all-seeing eyes?
AS> AS> Well, since He is a part of God, who is omnipresent, He is there.
AS> RC> So Jesus fucks the little children. How sweet.
AS> No; "what you do FOR the least of these, you do for me." He is present
in
The one who does the rapeing is doing it for Jesus.How nice.
AS> the victim. But the perpetuator? "Whosoever hateth his brother is a
AS> murderer; and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in
You would have to show that all/most rapes are trigger by hate. It's
more a power trip then hate of person or their sex.
AS> him"---and rape is essentially an act of violence and hate. And similarly,
"violence" i can agree with, i would debate "hate".
AS> "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject
ot
"carnal mind" back then is sex lust ? thats the way i take it. Rape
isn't so much sex lust as a power trip.
AS> the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the
flesh
AS> cannot please God."
Going by the bible, i also better not love my father or mother. Also
since my so called myth soul is surrounded by flesh ,
every day i stay alive, I displease your god.Cute Al.
AS> Oh, tell us again how you don't blame gods for anything.
AS> How sweet.
Just Your God, Al.
now shake that dust off your feet and get moveing
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * J.j.Hitt..Buttpimple's Advocate Service...
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Jesus as a Quack healer
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:56:00
EID:e771 22358f00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E58AE5
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-18-97 (19:33) Number: 39437
From: JAN DEBOER Refer#: NONE
To: AL SCHROEDER Recvd: NO
Subj: Jesus as a Quack healer Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JD>Hello Al,
JD>On 16 Jan 97 12:52:02 Al Schroeder wrote to Jan deBoer...
JD> AS> Oddly enough, Rod, my church has a special Sunday School class
JD> AS> for kids with mental disabilities. And has welcomed many other
JD> AS> with other disabilities.
JD> AS> Some of our deacons have disabilities.
JD> AS> Jesus came not to heal the well, but the sick, to help those in
JD> AS> need, not those not in need of a physician.
JD> Jd> Well, since you've got a sunday skool full of them, obviously yer
JD> Jd> jesus is a failure at 'healing' them, ain' he.
JD> AS> We'll have to ask Him when He comes visiting...and then decide.
JD>Visiting? I thought he was everywhere! First you tell us god doesn't
do
JD>anything supernatural, and now he's lost his omnipotence?
Likely, Al hasn't pray for them yet.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 21 Jan 97 18:47:00
EID:a441 223595e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E58AE6
>RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day? DC> You nailed that one right on!
>RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one home . . .
>ML> One little pun and you run it to the Hilti.
>RS> Wood I do something like that?
>RV>Depends on the point, your driveing home.
>KW>That was tacky!
>RV>Only if you frame it.
KW>Screw it!
Not a stance to take on virgin material.
* SLMR 2.1a * ...Christian: a throughly unhappy man who sees only evil
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:53:00
EID:e36e 222736a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A794395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
MH> I know the Bible says this about itself, Jim, but where is there
MH> *anything* in the Bible that demonstrates any kind of knowledge that
MH> wasn't available to the people of the time? How come the Creation
MH> story doesn't mention microbes, just for one example.
LB> I have never quite understood how this passage is taken to indicate
LB> anything inerrant or supernatural about the scriptures.
It's the "God-breathed" phrase. What Jim doesn't take into account is,
at the time 2 Timothy was written, "scripture" would refer to the
Hebrew scriptures ... the Old Testament, essentially.
LB> If I were to write an essay denoting my thoughts about you, it would
LB> be inspired by you...might even be called "Michael-breathed" in the
LB> sense that it would be suffused with my thoughts about you. That
LB> wouldn't mean that you wrote it, or even agreed with it. It would still
LB> only indicate my impressions of you.
Yeah, that's another way to read the phrase. Hadn't thought of it like
that.
LB> And scriptures ARE useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting,
LB> etc.....and often ARE when they are used here in Holysmoke to point
out
LB> some of the inconsistancies of christian theology. ;)
LB> Seriously, though, "useful" doesn't indicate inerrant. I have shelves
LB> FULL of books that have been useful to me. None of them are sacred -
LB> none inerrant or above being questioned.
LB> I don't think the author of the above passage EVER intended his words
LB> to indicate some rule that says "Thou shalt not THINK about what
LB> scripture says, just obey."
And it's especially a stretch to insist it applies just to the
canonized Christian (Protestant?) Bible.
LB> The scriptures are very useful for understanding how early christians
LB> regarded
LB> their faith...what expressions they took. SOME of the scriptures even
LB> have what I would regard as "truth" - concepts that are nearly
LB> universal and have parallels in the sacred writings and beliefs of
LB> other faiths. But there is no indication that the modern evangelical
LB> attachment to it all as a strictly LITERAL recounting of events was
LB> ever a requirement of the earliest church.
LB> Indeed, if we accept the recounting of Jesus' ministry in action, we
LB> see that his primary method was the use of parable, symbol and
LB> allegory. Why would
LB> his first followers NOT continue the same method? Not with intent to
LB> deceive,
LB> but because they had seen it *work*. The earliest audience may well
LB> have accepted and understood that, with only the 2nd generation
LB> beginning to misunderstand.
Probably not even the second. The official doctrine of inerrancy is
less than two centuries old, I think.
... The invitation said black tie only. Why are all of you in suits?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: prayer
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:53:00
EID:1e7f 223296a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A794396
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> Yes. But those prayers are not always answered. (Indeed, if they
AS> were answered infallibly all the time, people would treat it more like
AS> sorcery than prayer...a demand, not a petition.) And rarely in a way
AS> that circumvents natural law.
MH> Although, Jesus guaranteed that they would be.
LB> Which leads to the pervasive notion, expressed or otherwise, that
LB> unanswered prayer means you didn't pray RIGHT, or ask for the right
LB> thing....or are selfish to ask for what you are asking for. Always
LB> back to the idea that it's the imperfect human's fault that the
LB> supposedly perfect god declines to respond - and for some of us, a loud
LB> NO would have been preferable, even if it were painful to hear, to the
LB> still silence that kept us wondering whether we'd been heard at all.
Or
LB> what we did to be "twitted" by the god we were told we needed to obey
LB> and love.
Yeah. I've prayed a number of times where I felt "plugged in" to the
divine, but never in any tangible way, never in any way that could be
proven to be anything more than a state of mind.
MH> Any evidence that Christians, or any other group, has a higher rate
MH> of such things than everybody else, suggesting divine favor?
LB> No specific group, that I know of, altho I have seen recent things
LB> suggesting that having some sort of organized spiritual life
LB> (regardless of the specifics
LB> of it) can be beneficial. What the data is behind that, I have no
LB> idea, but I think it makes sense in light of what you say below:
Yeah, there's less uncertainty, more comfort, associated with religious
belief, as well as less likelihood of drug abuse or other
self-destructive behaviors.
MH> I have always thought of prayer more as a meditative exercise to put
MH> us in touch with the divine, not an opportunity to present a wish
MH> list. I may begin practicing it again, even through my agnosticism,
MH> and see if I still benefit from it.
LB> As you know, I continued long after I had stopped being comfortable
LB> with faith, to continue a long practiced, developed prayer life. The
LB> routine itself
LB> had been a source of strength - a way of putting into words and to the
LB> front of my own mind those things that were important to me. Often,
we
LB> discover where our heart lies in the act of prayer. It wasn't until
I
LB> began directly dealing with issues of whether there was someone on the
LB> other end to hear at ALL (as opposed to someone just not bothering to
LB> answer) that it became painful
LB> to continue....and it was your very wise advice that if the context
of
LB> the method I had used for so long was no longer providing me with
LB> anything beneficial, I should put it away. It was a radical piece of
LB> advice you gave me, by far the most uncomfortable and most important
LB> thing that anyone has said to me in this past year, although I know
it
LB> sounds so obvious now. For me, breaking that pattern was more
LB> difficult...and more permanent....than any of the changes in belief
I
LB> have gone through. My theology was always about action more than
LB> faith.
LB> I have found that I am still interested in an organized method of
LB> meditating on those actions, and am slowly and hesitantly developing
LB> new ways to do so. Including even some of my older methods, such as
LB> journaling. Sometimes, I still
LB> do include what would be called "prayer", although I am no longer so
LB> concerned
LB> with whether anyone is on the other end to hear the message. *I* hear
LB> it...and
LB> in the end, that was all I was ever certain of, anyway.
LB> If God overhears, and wants to respond, he knows where to find me. :)
I do think there is value in finding some way to meditate, some way to
connect with yourself if not God. It can be done in any number of ways,
though, no need to make it formal "prayer."
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:06:00
EID:85ee 222738c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A794397
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
DC> Did it ever occur to you that Jesse took a powder very shortly
DC> after I re-posted that quote of his? Perhaps he is thinking
DC> about what it means.
DC> But, I doubt it. I think he left so that he wouldn't have
DC> to face the truth and that he could live happily ever after
DC> in his blind obedience to his masters.
MH> No! He left because I asked him a hurtful question that his
MH> Christanic masters couldn't answer! It's my first kill, damn it, and
MH> you're NOT taking it from me! :-)
LB> LOL! New converts are SO much fun.... ;)
LB> Now you'll be wanting the Holysmoke First Kill Merit Badge, I
LB> suppose....
Of course! :-)
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:07:00
EID:024e 222738e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A794398
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> The thrust is, I'm not sure to what extent I ever did have faith. I
MH> was quite skeptical from my late teens through mid-20s. I returned
MH> to Christianity after my father died. Looking back, I see
MH> that his death led me to realize the stark truth of mortality; I
MH> ultimately embraced faith, I think, because of the assurance of
MH> heaven.
DC> OOC, how old where you when your Father died? It may have some
DC> bearing as to why you took a different course than you had started.
I was 25.
DC> Yes, I do have my own anecdote about the time my Dad died. It
DC> may or may not be relevant to your experience.
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:56:00
EID:813c 22329700
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A794399
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Michael Hardy <=-
RC> But Lynda, don't you realize that *you* are the one who is terribly
RC> insecure? Not Brother Jesse -- he was only here to combat the evil,
RC> and since Michael became tainted by what is supposedly evil (give him
RC> a little time and he'll be making pacts with demonic forces, right?),
RC> that means Jesse is supposed to treat him like the enemy.
mh> I've already joined ranks with the Rice
mh> Brothers, apparently. They're demonic forces, right? :-)
FR> You didn't show up at last night's meeting. You're out.
Damn. But I have an excuse! I have a note! It says: "Dear Rice Bros:
Please excuse Michael for his absence from last night's meeting. He was
sick in bed with a hangover from another meeting the night before.
Signed, Epstein's mother."
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:58:00
EID:a2d9 22329740
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Jim, but where is there
MH> *anything* in the Bible that demonstrates any kind of knowledge that
MH> wasn't available to the people of the time? How come the Creation
MH> story doesn't mention microbes, just for one example.
JS> It wasn't necessarily needed at that time. And, obviously not God's
JS> plan to bring that particular time. But, back to the question at
JS> hand: The relevency of scripture in today's world and life. Do you see
JS> anything, as far as exhortation that in the NT (Pauline books, for
JS> example) that isn't for the 90's?
How about men not having long hair? Do you really think God cares if
people can see the back of my collar?
... Behaviorial Research: Pulling habits out of rats.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:59:00
EID:708b 22329760
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Robert Curry <=-
RC> Good lord, you are dense.
AS> Not quite as dense as an atheist calling on a "Good Lord,"
AS> methinks.
Actually, it looks like he was calling *you* a good lord ... shall I
kneel? :-)
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: would you, could you?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:02:00
EID:02a0 22329840
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
LB> *nod* There is no difference in response for prayers offered in good
LB> times or bad. Always just silence...the only difference is our own
AS> Well, for instance, John Brawley thinks he has gotten answers from
AS> God. So did Augustine. So did Son of Sam, to be fair. Are you
AS> convinced by them? If you had something other than silence, WOULD you
AS> be convinced by it? Or would you wonder if you were having a
AS> hallucination? If someone told you to do a certain something, and
AS> something would happen to convince you, would you do it?
If God had a face
What would it look like
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that you had to believe
In things like heaven
And Jesus and all of the prophets ...
(From "One Of Us")
LB> perceptions of the event. If God is to be credited for the happy events
LB> of my life, he needs to be questioned about the unhappy ones. Or it
LB> needs to be acknowledged that each happened without his involvement.
AS>
AS> Which events? God, I don't think, can be credited with the happiness
AS> of your marriage to George...that is something you two have built. Is
AS> it POSSIBLE (not saying it is, just asking) that God had something to
AS> do with you two getting back together, after your bad experience?
AS> That's possible, I think.
But what she's saying is, if God can be credited for bringing her and
George back together, shouldn't he also be blamed for bringing her and
her ex together? Why credit God for the good if not blame him for the
bad? Why assume he's manipulating things when good stuff happens, but
somehow not paying attention when bad stuff happens?
... EB> JP> SF> RJ> LY> PM> SS> AO> ER> SP> DL> Stop quoting this.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: free will
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:21:00
EID:a0f3 22329aa0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> How about on an individual basis? Say a skeptic says: "I would
MH> believe in God if he would appear in my house and talk to me for one
MH> hour." If the skeptic's eternity matters to God, and if the sentiment
MH> is sincere, why would God not do it? There were theophanies in the OT.
MH> Why not now? (Openly, I mean, not God in disguise.)
AS> Well, I can think of a couple of objections. The God-interview idea
AS> is fine, except I don't think it would work in a lot of cases. How
AS> would you distinguish such from personal hallucination? Even if it
AS> convinced YOU, it would be useless at convincing someone else.
But the point is *not* convincing someone else, it *is* to convince the
one person who'd be convinced by it, the one who asked for it.
... Behind every double standard is a single hidden agenda.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: superstition two
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:25:00
EID:dbcf 22329b20
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> The gospels are far closer to agreeing about the details of Jesus's
MH> trial and execution than about his Resurrection ... suggesting that
MH> the mundane events have a base in real history, while the more
MH> fantastic ones may not.
AS>
AS> Odd that it would convince Paul, writing just twenty years later, and
AS> at one point a profound skeptic, of its authenticity. Or do we doubt
AS> Paul existed, or his own account of his life, about being a former
AS> enemy of the church?
But it *didn't* convince Paul, did it? Paul wasn't convinced until he
got a personal audience with the risen Lord.
... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: the real world
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:27:00
EID:e174 22329b60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A79439F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> That's a non-sequitur. Real altruism may not be a survival trait, but
MH> it's also rare enough that it causes no overall harm to the species.
MH> No God needed to explain it; it's a quirk.
AS> Then it's an odd quirk that runs through all the species...and all
AS> our highest ideals embrace that "quirk". Very few societies don't
AS> agree that selfless acts are holy, noble, and to be desired, no matter
AS> how rarely they are carried out.
MH> I'm not sure about that. We all admire the occasional self-sacrifice,
MH> but we also all sympathize greatly with those who can't bring
MH> themselves to make such sacrifices ... because most of us wouldn't.
AS> But which do you idealize? The Thomas Mores, the Martin Luther Kings,
AS> or just the rank and file? Which inspire us? I submit it is the
AS> Gandhis, the Mores, the Joan of Arcs, Martin Luther Kings who most
AS> inspire us, and we most aspire to be like.
Inspire, yes. Aspire? I don't really think so. I think most of us are
content to not be heroes, to not die for a principle. In evolutionary
terms, whatever we may *think* about that kind of self-sacrifice, it
happens seldom enough to not threaten the species.
AS> They have indeed. Nazi Germany comes to mind. But that is the
AS> exception, not the rule. Even in primitive societies, the mad are
AS> often regarded as "holy" and left alone.
MH> Again, though, I think evolution explains it. Compassion is a
MH> survival trait ... it may lead to some degree of individual sacrifice,
MH> but it is good for the species overall.
AS> I think it is good in a deeper sense. But keeping the deficient alive
AS> makes no evolutionary sense, even though it appeals to all which is
AS> most human in us.
That's true, it doesn't -- except maybe in a vague way by encouraging
respect for our lives in general. However, like altruism, it takes so
little away from our species that our overall survival isn't
threatened.
... Too many people speak twice before they think.
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--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: rices
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:31:00
EID:a53d 22329be0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A7943A0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> :( I'm truly sorry to hear this. My grandfathers both died of
MH> cancer, and my father had a bout with it (thyroid) before his
MH> heart disease took him. It's a very hard to disease to watch
MH> someone suffer with. My sympathies, for what little they may
MH> be worth, are with you.
MB> You addressed this to Gwen and I almost missed it. Yes, cancer is
MB> not a pretty way to go. Thank you for your concern. I appreciate
MB> it. (Yes, I'm sucking up to you because you decided to be in
MB> league with the Rices.)
:) They kicked me out already. And I didn't even do anything.
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:40:00
EID:24d2 22359d00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A7943A1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> In the words of distinguished theologian Karl Barth...
AS> (page 1) Jesus
AS> (page 2) loves
AS> (page 3) me
AS> (page 4) this
AS> (page 5) I
AS> (page 6) know,
AS> (page 7) because
AS> (page 8) The Bible
AS> (page 9) tells
AS> (page 10) me so.
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
LB> Jaw dropping....
LB> And how do we KNOW there is a god who loves us? The bible says so.
LB> And how do we KNOW the bible is true? Because it's God's word.
LB> Circularity; the Bible; think about it.
OTOH, it explains where Al gets his wordiness. Barth takes ten pages
to communicate a simple point too. :-)
... Too many people speak twice before they think.
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--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 22 Jan 97 01:07:04
EID:a68c 223608e0
MSGID: 1:229/622 32e56839
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e44152
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about ...:
MB> According to the Lord's Prayer, you're absolutely right. And,
MB> since that is what it says, why pray at all? As long as the
MB> words "thy will be done" are included, basically, there is no
MB> reason to believe that prayer will ever make things turn out
MB> any differently than they would have absent the prayer.
AS> Not necessarily.
AS> I can have my son ask me for something I normally would not have
AS> considered giving him. Is it still subject to my will whether he gets
AS> it or not? Well, yes, if it's more than his allowance.
Then its safe for me to assume it was NOT God's will that I not go through
5 years of hell.
Thank you for that clarification, Al.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ ...The Popemobile: proof prayer doesn't work.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Baby In Critical Conditi
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:25:12
EID:5de7 22358320
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e54c8e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e4412c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Jan and Al were killing time yakking about Baby In Critical Conditi:
Jd> MISERY? They should be partying, knowing that their kids are in
Jd> HEAVEN! PARADISE! Or, don't they believe?
AS>
AS> They believe indeed. But it still means years, perhaps decades,
AS> before they see their child again.
AS> would still be a reprehenisble act, and one that should be
AS> prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Jd> Why would you want to make direct passage to HEAVEN prosecutable??
AS>
AS> Because killing corrupts a person, and makes them callous. Done often
AS> enough, it makes them sociopathic.
On the other hand, so does prison.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ If one cannot catch a bird of paradise, grab a wet hen.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: All
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:27:18
EID:0a0c 22358b60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e54c8f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e44139
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about final exam:
AS> My standards are my own, and when they depart from them, as you observe,
AS> it hurts their reputation much more than mine.
I'm just leaving that statement to stand there all on it's own.
What hubris...anyone who departs from AL'S standards are in danger of their
reputation being hurt?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ From the Department of Redundancy Department
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
1208
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:51:44
EID:abf4 22358660
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e54c90
REPLY: 1:3603/210 23a361fd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SHELBY and ROBERT were killing time yakking about HomeSchool:
RC> with: Starfire
DW> My quarrel is with your mother and that goofy fuck she calls
DW> a husband - not with any of you.
SS> Details, please.
RC> How about a title? "The Great Twinkie Incident."
I've got it listed as "A Weighty Flame War" on my Hot Topics page with the
following intro:
Flame-broiled Sacred Cows are the meal of choice in Holysmoke, and Twinkies
make a great chaser. It's always interesting to see someone who understands
that suddenly go ballistic when their own cow is put on the Holysmoke grill.
This began with an irreverent observation that less Twinkies would reduce
weight. No, the comment wasn't "nice". Neither, however, was repeating it
to
a minor and then throwing said minor into the fray without preparation.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ J.J. needs to be Hitt. Starfire
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:58:40
EID:4b9f 22358740
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e54c91
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e4414b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Marilyn and Al were killing time yakking about MIRACLE [1/2]:
AS> I'm perhaps not the one to ask, but I believe that the chimps
AS> HAVE asked for food, at least, when it's not present. But,
AS> not sure of that. I know someone who would know, though. Sue?
MB> Coco didn't like something her trainer did, so she called one of
MB> them a "dirty toilet." I hold that that at least shows some
MB> rudimentary understanding of the deep meaning of an abstract
MB> concept, as well as a rudimentary understanding of symbolism.
AS> Or is commenting on the trainer's bathroom habits. But I agree. It is
AS> showing the first elementary steps toward true language. Of course,
AS> they are using a human derived-language, rather than their own, and
AS> may have seen humans similarly use metaphors. So they might have
AS> learned by example, which is still great.
All the same ways humans learn Al. We didn't all INDEPENDANTLY come up with
an English vocabulary, you know.
The above is as much 'true language' as any two year old learning the fine
art of language play...taking words already within their vocabulary and
rejoining them to generate new meaning. And amusing, toilet humor combinations
are most definitely par for the course.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ A beer NEVER leaves the toilet seat up.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 21 Jan 97 17:30:00
EID:8cca 22358bc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e54c92
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e4414d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Roger and Al were killing time yakking about MORE GRIST FROM THE W:
AS> Look, some of the guys who STARTED the CofC were fairly englightened
AS> for their time. They regard the communion meal as symbolic, rather
AS> than an actual transubstition as the Catholics and Episcopals do. The
Not offended, just correcting.
From the Articles of Religion of the Episcopal Church, laid forth in 1801:
Article XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper
Paragraph 2:
"Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in
the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant
to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament,
and hath given occasion to many superstitions."
AS> about Revelations...but I can't deny that there is not the broad range
AS> of deep thinkers that we sometimes see in Episcopal or Catholic
AS> circles. OTOH, and please let no one Episcopal take this as a flame
AS> (that means you, Lynda) I have found more sheer spirituality in the
AS> CofC...or at least some churches of it...then I found in Episcopal
AS> churches.
Why would I think it a flame for you to recount what is plainly your own
experience, rather than something intended to be a universal truism?
Considering the number of misapprehensions you have about doctrinal issues
within the Episcopal Church, I would be the first to admit that the parish
of your childhood was less than fully engaged on a spiritual or pastoral
level.
I have seen a fairly broad range of spiritual expression just within the
Episcopal Church itself, and do know there is room for deep spirituality
and a conviction to act in compassion based on that foundation. I also,
as you know, have become inactive due to an abundance of example that, for
many 'scandal' is the biggest concern they have, rather than any honest
expression of what they say is faith.
So why would I feel it a flame for you to acknowledge what I have also seen?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
~ TLX v4.10 ~ "Note to myself: Load guns before killing spree. Yeah!"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:50:30
EID:729c 22359e40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e5988b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 19 Jan 97 13:22:10 Patriot wrote to Fredric Rice...
P> Besides, it isn't as if Christians are the only ones against
P> homosexuality..
P> And what is so difficult about not making a point of telling
P> everyone what your sexual preference is?
It's similar to the difficulty you have in announcing 'I'm a White
Supremicist" on your arrival here!
.JdB
... I'll show you yours if you show me mine.
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Frederic Rice
|Sub: Most Wiped Book
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:51:18
EID:480e 22359e60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32e5988c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 19 Jan 97 13:17:10 Patriot wrote to Fredric Rice...
dr>> I also doubt that the Bible is "one of the most read" books in
dr>> history, considering the vast majority of Bible- owners have never
dr>> read it. Aesop and Shakespear probably outnumber Bible-readers
dr>> fifty-to-one.
FR> During the populating of the United States the Sears Catalog
fr> was the most widely distributed and read book.
gt> And the most useful. There was one hanging in every
gt> backhouse. Bibles might actually have been some use there.
They might have, but the xtians thwarted that recycling enedeavor
by making the paper too thin.
Sears and Eaton's fought feedback by making their papers thicker and
glossy so as to be like linoleum at twenty below zero - definitely not
a match for determined Klingons!
You can't beat flags, of any nationality or denomination, for that!
... I'm a perfectionist with other people's work.
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 21