God Damned Fundies!
|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: he come de judge
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:45:02
EID:b654 22370da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 3704060e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 20 Jan 97 09:02pm, AL SCHROEDER wrote to DAN CEPPA:
AS>> History. The barbarians who took over when Rome fell, were, for the
AS>> most part, non-Christians. Although they later converted (some to
AS>> Arianism).
DC>> Wrong, Al. The barbarians were, for the most part, just as
DC>> Lynda stated: xians.
AS> Although for instance, the Visigoths, fled their cousins the Huns and
AS> became Arians just to gain the protection of the Empire...which Alaric
AS> later brought to its knees.
Al spins history . . .
The Huns were short, had small black eyes, flat noses,
came from north of China--not likely "cousins" to Teutons.
They were already partially Christian by the time they
were allowed south of the Danube as a protection agains the Huns.
St. Ulifas (sp.?) had decades before translated much of the Bible
into Gothic. Accepting Christianity was *not* part of the
deal--giving over arms on crossing the Danube and giving over much
of their children as hostages was. The Romans made the mistake of
not allowing them to purchase food before their crops came up; the
upshot was the emperor Valens killed in defeat at Adrianople in
376.
The Visigoths were Christian when they sacked Rome in 410;
so were the Ostrogoths by that time. And the Vandals were also
Christian when they in turn sacked Rome in 455.
The Empire had been persecuting Arians for decades by the
time of the first sack. I've never seen an examination as to
how much sectarian strife played a role in Rome v. Barbarianism,
but I strongly suspect a contributing role.
... Conan was a hacker.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:45:02
EID:bf5a 22370da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040685
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> Life is full of suprises. Of course, there were great thinkers before
AS>> Socrates. But let's just look at the As, to begin with...Anaxagoras
CJ>> One of life's surprises is how the hell you could think my
CJ>> paragraph above is a question, as you repeatedly described it as
CJ>> such to Robert Curry.
AS> You were questioning my mentioning of Sophocles as the beginning of
AS> philosophy, correct? But if you think it must have a formal "?" then
AS> certainly I will withdraw the term. "Statement", then. Even "reply".
Incorrect, except in Al semantics.
Me: "You disagree with just about every history of Greek
philosophy written."
You: "Thanks for asking a question."
Now you say it's philosophy began with Sophocles. I'm
awaiting for you to justify this on the ground he wrote dialogue.
CJ>> [Much borrowed bullshit completely ignoring what the
CJ>> Pre-Socratics said about ethics, after-life, the flow of change,
CJ>> even vegetarianism, deleted.]
AS>
AS> If you wish.
I'm happy you gave me permission not to waste bandwidth
again by re-quoting your paraphrases.
CJ>> IOW, we're having another Al semantic bullshit game: Greeks
CJ>> because Socrates can't have practiced philosophy, even though
CJ>> "philosopher" is attached to their name in every reference book
CJ>> and history of philosophy, because--because Al is imposing his own
CJ>> peculiar definition on philosophy, as he did on war.)
AS> Every deep thinker in ancient times could be termed "philosopher",
AS> Curtis. And I can only speak of my own perspective. I can speak of
no
AS> other.
You could speak of the "perspective" of the source you used
for Anixamander, et al. You could admit that the reference you
relied upon denoted them as philosophers.
CJ>> Beginning to get the idea of one reason I'm no longer
CJ>> willing to waste much of my time on you?
AS> Curtis, my correspondence is rather large in this echo, as you may
have
AS> noticed. Whether you choose to post to me is a matter of complete
AS> indifference to me.
Ah, the brave Stoic.
... So many messages, so few megs.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: bacteria and evolutio
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:45:04
EID:fe1f 22370da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 370406fc
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 20 Jan 97 02:50pm, AL SCHROEDER wrote to JAN DEBOER:
AS> Well, yeah...
AS> Considering the rest of the universe is needed to keep the universe
AS> from recollapsing within a month's time. If the universe only
AS> consisted of, say, the Milky Way galaxy, it would have recollapsed
in
AS> a matter of months.
Since the Milky Way's a hundred thousand light years
across, Al is holding back the secret of faster-than-light travel.
... Landfill full: garbage count exceeded.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:45:04
EID:4595 22370da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040773
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 20 Jan 97 07:29pm, AL SCHROEDER wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG:
AS> Oh, I agree with you there; I'm with Ben Johnson, kicking the stone,
AS> showing that reality exists. But I don't fool myself that it is NOT
a
AS> belief. It is.
Sam Johnson, "Thus I refute Berkeley." Ben Johnson was the
playwright contemporary of Shakespeare.
... The capital of Arcadia was Megalopolis.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:06
EID:d173 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 370407ea
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> I really am glad to see you're back.
LB> :) Thanks again....glad to *be* back. '97 looks to be a very
LB> interesting year,
LB> hopefully not in the Chinese Curse sense.
Terminal (pun intended) boredom or "interesting times" :
the hell of heaven or just plain hell?
... WARNING! Any use of any product will lead to heat death!
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: more babbling al
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:06
EID:a9d4 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040861
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> Perhaps you should ask him that, since he addresses me
AS>> a question IN THIS VERY PACKET.
CJ>> What?
CJ>> I addressed him a question?
RC> How talented of you. Most people simply ask a question. It takes
RC> a special kind of person to "address" a question. Al has some really
RC> weird way of distorting reality, creating a personal pseudo-reality.
"Address a question," I think is legitimate English
usage--but it's a quite, stuffy, antiquated, stilted, formal
usage. It reeks of Robert's Rules of Order, where one addresses
a question to the Chair.
CJ>> I caught your , so you read what Al tells you was a
CJ>> question from me.
RC> Indeed. A sarcastic comment on his stupid remark about Socrates being
RC> "the first philosopher" -- it still makes me laugh to think about it.
He changed his mind--now it's Sophocles!
... And now, for our next exhibit in the glass zoo. . .
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: babbling al
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:08
EID:7874 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 370408d8
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> Congratulations on your falling flat on your face. Too bad for
AS>> you that Curtis asked me a question in this very packet. ROFL!!!
CJ>> I dunno, Robert, what do you think that he was deliberately
CJ>> misrepresenting my reply as an attempt to try and troll me
CJ>> into replying to him so that he could then try and Schoederize
CJ>> me into how my response was actually a question?
RC> I think he has become so accustomed to believing his own bullshit
RC> that when he completely distorts the truth, it "feels like" reality
RC> to him.
Well, as I understand his clarification, he takes
questioning anything he says (e.g., 'Al, you're full of shit!')
as a question.
Psycho-epistemologically, it's an interesting question as
to whether he's so removed from normal usage, deliberately
manipulates, or your alternative.
I had tried to give him the benefit of the doubt of
assuming that he was plugged into the world of discourse.
RC> BTW, this topic arose on IRC recently.
RC> Here's an amusing selection from my #holysmoke log file:
RC> I just thought it funny you saying Curtis would no longer
RC> post to me...when in that same packet, he DID.
RC> When did I say he wouldn't post to you? I said -- correctly
--
RC> that he was disgusted and alienated by you.
RC> Curry: are you confused, Curry? You accused me of being
RC> proud of alienating him...well, if he is so alientated, he
RC> wasn't alienated enough not to post to me.
RC> Al, you are fixated on something I never said. I never
RC> mentioned him "not posting to you"
RC> yea...alienated people NEVER interact, curry....because
RC> if they DID it would be war, and we don't war with aliens!
RC> Lynda is determined to kill me (and any innocent bystanders) with
RC> induced fits of laughter, I sometimes think. Then again, she can
RC> become quite serious, as well. See the following two posts for one
RC> example, a longer selection.
A good example of Al's peculiar semantics . . . if he's
serious about being a fiction writer, he'd better start
comprehending how a complete stranger might take what he says!
... Tagline: I'm it.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: babbling bullshitter
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:08
EID:16bc 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 3704094f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 19 Jan 97 11:54pm, ROBERT CURRY wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
RC> Al, Curtis said that was the LAST STRAW. Does that imply
RC> to you that it was the only thing you did to alienate him?
RC> Or was it rather the LAST thing?
RC> AlleyTom [~al.schroe@199.78.224.185] has quit IRC (Ping timeout
RC> for AlleyTom[199.78.224.185])
RC> AlleyTom [~al.schroe@slip20.nashville.com] has joined #holysmoke
RC> Al...I apologize. figured you'd not be coming back.
RC> Al, Curtis said that was the LAST STRAW. Does that imply to
you
RC> that it was the only thing you did to alienate him? Or was
it
RC> rather the LAST thing?
RC> Curry: WHY should I care?
RC> Specifically, Al, when you asserted he was disgusted and
RC> alienated by you for one little thing about age.
RC> Curry: because that's exactly why he said he was no
RC> longer posting to me. He mentioned it again this packet.
RC> If he has other issues, that's fine, that's okay, but don't
RC> pretend it's because of the age thing.
RC> And he said that it was the last straw. What does that
RC> normally mean, Al? That it was a sudden event?
RC> al...even the AGE thing isn't about his age...it was
RC> about your assumption that you knew better about something
RC> because of YOUR age....assumed he was younger, and assumed
RC> that meant something. You tried to dismiss his statements
RC> based on age and it was the DISMISSAL that was the final straw
RC> in a long list of arrogant assumptions of superiourity on
RC> your part.
RC> Indeed: and I don't expect people to shut off a dialogue
RC> over something like that...without asking. I apologized to
RC> Curtis. If he can't take it...that's his problem. nont mine.
RC> he needed to ask, to be entitled to stop posting to
RC> you?! He is entitled to his opinion, but he is NOT
RC> entitled to withhold it without asking first! ok, got it!
Oh, man, it's so much fun to be the object of a cat fight!
Especially when the winners understand and the loser
doesn't!
Yep--it was the blithe assumption, without any knowledge
whatsoever, that Al was condescending about our relative ages that
finally tripped the gasket. The intellectual dishonesty (in his
case, I think Al may be intellectually dishonest toward himself)
just became too irritating when suddenly applied on a personal
level.
Thanks for posting this! (Any bets on how long Al will
whine over you posting this?)
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
... "He's dead, Jim. . . From now on, call HIM Bones!"
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: alternative of straw
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:10
EID:3674 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 370409c6
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 17 Jan 97 09:31pm, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
MG>> IF souls are the embodiment of wht the person does, then sooner or
MG>> later, all would be consigned to hell. That is, if there was a god,
MG>> sending out souls to live out our lives for us, sooner or later, they
MG>> all get trapped in some sinners physical form and then would be sent
MG>> to hell. Pretty soon, god runs out of souls.
AS>> Hmmm. I think you're presupposing reincarnation there, unless you
AS>> think no one can lead a life that would earn Heaven...
AS>> It sure is, but I was trying to understand Martin's POV, which is
AS>> very far from the standard Christian one.
LB> Standard christian theology says there are human souls that are NEVER
LB> housed in a physical body?
LB> Actually, Martin is espousing Judaic theology, if I recall the idea
LB> correctly, that there is a limited number of souls available, and that
LB> God sends them into their physical bodies at birth (God, breathing the
LB> soul into the body at birth).
LB> Yes, patched together with the christian idea of hell, it gets carried
LB> to his conclusion....but since christianity lays claims to Jewish
LB> roots, it is certainly not out there to take a look at it, without
LB> resorting to reincarnation.
The pre-existence of souls was a hot theological debate for
a long time. And there's some modern Christian factions that
still argue for it.
And FWIW, Origen, for instance, seriously argued for
reincarnation in a Christian system--it was the only way out he
could conceive for a loving God.
... To eros is human.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:46:10
EID:eab2 22370dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040a3d
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>CJ>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
CJ>>CJ>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>>CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
CJ>>KW> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
CJ>> GEESE! GEESE! GOOSE HIM!
KW> GRAVID! GRAVID! IMPREGNATE HIM!
GRAVEL! GRAVEL! PEBBLE HIM!
... Nothing to lose but my access privileges.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:12
EID:cbfb 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040ab4
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
DM>> Actually, central American Amerinds did have wheeled
DM>> _toys_ before Columbus brought civilization to these shores,
DM>> so they were not quite so hopeless as some would maintain:
DM>> they understood the principle and the construction of the
CJ>> I've seen photographs of one such toy.
CJ>> An additional barrier, I suppose, was the general
CJ>> consideration that a circle (and therefore a wheel) seems to have
CJ>> been considered a generally sacred symbol.
DM> I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but I'll bet
DM> the _roller_ was used by those stone-moving cats in Central
DM> and South America. Interesting point about the sacredness of
DM> the circle, but the presence of a wheel on a toy argues
DM> against the shape's being tabu (unless the kid who owned the
DM> toy was the equivalent of the Dali Lama or something).
Argument from memory of a historical novel is pretty
weak, but Jennings's _Aztec_ had a scene in a quarry where, IIRC,
rollers were being used.
Have you any further knowledge of the proposal about a
decade ago that the huge blocks of stone of various civilizations
were actually a form of concrete--the chips being welded together
by oxalic acid (from such plants as rhubarb)?
Of course, the preserved toys were, IIRC, made for the
children of nobles. Perhaps the concept was both trivialized as
well as made sacred? Not a contradiction, really--either way it
would be slow in leaking down to the working stiffs whose life it
would have eased (since the Incas did have a famous roadway
system).
CJ>> I've read an interesting alternate history by Harry
CJ>> Turtledove which _Homo erectus_ survived in N. America, and
CJ>> mammoths drew freight along railways.
DM> Another interesting point: notice that elephants are
DM> used for carrying (both trunk and back), pushing, and
DM> dragging logs and such, but not for drawing. I have never
DM> seen an elephant cart depicted anywhere. Certainly it has
DM> the mass and the strength to draw, but somehow has
DM> apparently not been found suitable for the task.
An elephant would use its trunk to keep pulling at the
harness, I'd imagine. It would be even worse than a mule for
trying to get it to do such work if it made its mind up not to.
And unless the cart was absurdly high, it may run the danger of
having amorphous, odiferous masses randomly plopped onto its
front.
... Clop. Clop. "I'm a cowboy-hippie, hippie-ay." Clop. Clop.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: christ-like
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:12
EID:1777 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040b2b
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> By what you say was his alter ego? The prosecution could
CJ>> rest on that alone!
JB>
JB> How'd YOU get a look at my motion for a directed verdict of guilty?
JB> Gonna sue the judge.
Careful . . . scuttlebutt is that for contempt of court he
pronounces a hell of a fine.
... Smilie when you type that, pardneh.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:14
EID:6dbb 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040ba2
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> text-based I and my circle are. The most recent photo of me is
CJ>> about five years old--when I posed much less of a danger from
JB> So, have you changed THAT much in 5 years? Doesn't matter anyway,
JB> especially when I get finished with it.
I'd look I got cut by by a Bandsma?
JB> On a serious note, yes there is a good reason for
JB> photographs...especially taken with your kids. My mother died when I
JB> was 18. There is not ONE picture of her with me or my sisters. It would
JB> be especially nice to have at least one now that we all have kids of
JB> our own. (And grandkids in my case)
No close relatives in the neighborhood.
CJ>> In a little while. I'm trying to decide what local ISP to
CJ>> go with.
JB>
JB> Well, the page...at the moment...is defunct. It WILL be back, with more
JB> of a bite but it will take me a bit longer to do it as I have the shop
JB> open now and not as much time as I had over the holiday hiatus.
JB> Evidently I didn't make the martyr quotient high enough.
Saves the immediate bother as well of trying to locate a
scanner.
CJ>> And this instance was a particularly clear example of that.
CJ>> Al was insisting that his usage of "war" was the one that
CJ>> obtained, despite nearly unanimous usage the other way by the sf
JB> Maybe I ought to do 2 GOO's of Al. Keep the blowfish...and also GOO
his
JB> face into the center of a broken record.
LOL!
... Can I help you?--Alex Gt. You're blocking the sun. Move.--Diog.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:14
EID:15fb 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040c19
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> BTW, did you know that Beckett persistently claimed that
CJ>> the 'Godot' of the title did not stand for "God"? One never knows
JB> I didn't read that until long after I had read 'Godot' (on my own
JB> without some instructor to interpret it for me). And I was a bit
JB> surprised that anyone would see it AS standing for god.
JB> It's been quite a while and I don't remember the characters names, but
JB> I do remember thinking that what they were really waiting for was their
JB> own inner resources of courage and independence to surface.
I don't remember the names of the characters, offhand, but
I remember that one hypothesis was that the two characters were
actually members of a resistance waiting for their contact.
It is a testimony to his genius that could abstract such a
situation, make the dialogue specific enough to serve as an actual
play, yet keep the actual situation so abstract that everyone
feels compelled to rush in to supply their setting.
Of course, his later plays became much more weird as they
became shorter.
As you may have known, he was a secretary for James Joyce.
But a biographical fact that gives better insight into his work is
that when he made it big, he bought a chateau that gave him the
inspirational view of--not the ocean, not mountains, not a
city--but downward below into the courtyard of a prison.
JB> Guess that's another one that needs to be on my reread list. I just
JB> wonder if my librarian will have an easier time with that one than she
JB> did with Sophocles.
Maybe you confused that librarian by asking for the
playwright instead of the first philosopher.
... Smilie when you type that, pardneh.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:16
EID:b9cd 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040c90
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>> * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
JB>
CJ>> * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1469
JB> But it's counting upward again. Maybe it IS time to register it.
Goat-damn, but you're correct!
How very bizarre. Either I'm in a time-loop, or the
rapture has been postponed!
... "Bother," said Pooh, and wrote a tagline.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: brett johnson; jealou
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:16
EID:7e61 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040d07
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
MB> On (21 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Brett Johnson...
CJ>> Except that above you defined the nature of the sacred as
CJ>> 'you shall not have other gods besides me.'
MB> He's misquoting Judaic scripture, anyway. the correct quote is
MB> "thou shalt have no other gods BEFORE me." The difference is
MB> significant. If you'll read on in that text, Jehovah says he's a
MB> jealous god and insists on FIRST PLACE. That strongly suggests
MB> that whoever wrote that text (it wasn't Moses, for sure, but you
MB> twitty friend probably thinks it was) recognized the fact that
MB> there WERE other gods, and Jehovah simply wanted to be first.
Yep.
MB> To further put the text in context, Originally the Israelites were
MB> polytheists. During their exile in Egypt, Ramoses I was pharoah.
MB> He was probably the first monotheist, but was having one deuce of
MB> a time selling the idea to the populace.
Here's the first problem I have with that thesis--the
consensus among Egyptologists is that the first (and last)
monotheist was--drat, I can't remember his spelling but he was
Nefertiti's hubby----Akhenaten, aka Amenhotep IV, who
reigned about half a century before Ramses I. [To use the usual
transliteration; that this author uses a different one to support
his thesis makes me suspect tendentiousness.]
MB> Ramoses knew that a famine was about to start in the land, and he
MB> also knew that there wasn't enough grain in storage to feed both
MB> the Egyptians AND the Israelites. He convinced his son Ramoses II
MB> to lead the Israelites out of Egypt in a way that would not let
MB> them know that the Pharoah was behind the plot, figuring that if
MB> they did know, they would think the plot was a trap.
MB> It is no accident that the names Ramoses and Moses are as close as
MB> they are. Many OT scholars believe that Ramoses II WAS Moses, and
MB> that he convinced them to HAVE NO OTHER GOD __BEFORE__ Jehovah!
Sorry, very few if any. Just what grains of truth there
may be to Exodus is unknown; the correlation does seem to be less
and less.
MB> _Mythology's Last Gods_ is a pretty good read. It was originally a
MB> doctoral dissertation that later became a modestly selling book.
MB> The author's name is William Harwood. It's in that book, the whole
MB> story.
It may have been a good read, but I suspect a distortion
akin to Velikovsky and a few other pseudoarcheologists.
For what university was this dissertation written? Was it
a university with a decent archeology/Egyptology department?
... Nightmare: Cats with opposable thumbs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: mormonism isn't even
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:18
EID:112e 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040d7e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 20 Jan 97 11:00pm, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
DG> Sorry, guys, Mormonism isn't even CLOSE to Christianity, or at least,
DG> not as close as the LDS church would have you believe. The church
DG> which Jesus Christ founded did not have temples in which secret (excuse
DG> me, "sacred") rituals were performed. The church which Jesus Christ
DG> founded did not have the Book of Mormon, nor the Doctrine & Covenants,
DG> nor the Pearl of Great Price. The church which Jesus Christ founded
DG> had neither the Aaronic nor Melchisedec Priesthoods.
Acts tells you that the Jerusalem church continued to go
to the Temple, where secret rituals were performed.
The church didn't have the New Testament at first, either.
The Temple where the Jerusalem church worshipped had the
Aaronic priesthood, and the Epistles to the Hebrews goes on and
on about the Melkidezek priesthood.
DG> The church which Jesus Christ founded did not have wards, nor stakes.
DG> The church which Jesus Christ founded did not have Quorums of the
DG> Seventy. The church which Jesus Christ founded did not have many of
DG> the doctrines which the Mormons teach and preach as truth.
The church which didn't have offering plates,
salaried pastors, etc.
Dolt! You have missed every ground on which you could
berate the Mormons as being uniquely full of shit!
DG> Is that your prayer, too? If it is, and you are a Mormon, repent of
DG> your sins and ask Jesus Christ to come into your life today. Then
DG> leave the church. Find a nearby Baptist or Assemblies of God church,
DG> and join it. I'll be praying for you.
God forbid they join some heretical assembly like the
Methodists.
... EDLINE 8.7: For people who take life one line at a time.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: millennium lunacy
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:47:18
EID:f606 22370de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 37040df5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 20 Jan 97 11:32pm, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to MARILYN BURGE:
DG> I hate to disagree with you (disagreement NEVER happens on this echo,
DG> right? ), but a few years ago, I did research on the Star of
DG> Bethlehem which leads me to believe that Christ was actually born on
DG> Sept. 15, 7 B.C., or at least sometime within mid-September of 7 B.C.
DG> Let me illustrate why:
Such a miracle is mentioned in only gospel.
Such a "star" couldn't give them the fix of only five miles
difference between Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
Such an interpretation ignores totally the "star" prophecy
of Numbers.
Such a purely astronomical candidate for the date ignores
the dates for the death of Herod the Great, and GMatt, and
Josephus.
IOW, like every other attempt to come up with a date for
the birth of Jesus, it succeeds only by ignoring other supposed
evidence.
Or maybe you like living in 2004 right now.
... Space is nothing but elbow room.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1477
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: all
|Sub: who does god like?
|Date: 22 Jan 97 21:15:42
EID:e4ca 2236a9e0
Often, when an athlete or a team is victorious, the athlete or team will
thank god for the victory. Does said victory mean god didn't like the other
athlete or team? And, if the victor turns out to lose a rematch, does that
mean god changed his mind?
--- MsgedSQ/2 3.35
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Starfire
|Sub: Re: Equal rights
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:35:50
EID:e28c 22358460
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 bbfb3605
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32df9976
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Starfire utter:
S> ou got sick eating chicken! {ha}
Yeah, I did. I thought I cooked the damned thing enough. I should have just
ordered pizza. :)
... gmooth@sprynet.com - Spam Spam Spam!!!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Re: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 21 Jan 97 19:24:40
EID:441e 22359b00
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 6d1d9dc8
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e14ea0
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Patriot utter:
P> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should actually be
P> the pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the ride.
But, then, we'd crash into a mountain or something.
... If you love someone, cover her in whipped cream.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Flat-earthers
|Date: 22 Jan 97 17:31:54
EID:f266 22368be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e64f0b
-> On 18 Jan 97 10:36:04, Lynda Bustilloz got back to Dan Ceppa
LA> Aldous Huxley? See what you think eh?
DC> I think you have a problem with meglomania and a very strong
DC> tendancy to a marty complex. Seek help.
LB> MARTY complex?!?!
Well, that typo does work. After all, he enjoys getting abused
by geologists and immunologists.
... Rule 1-E of Creationism: Claim evidence...then misqoute science
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 22 Jan 97 17:37:42
EID:33bb 22368ca0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e65066
-> On 16 Jan 97 16:08:46, Paul Davis got back to All
PD> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would you want to
PD> have a look?
No, I would prefer that he stayed in his house.
... Staal: "totally ignorant" is descriptive, not hyperbole nor redundant
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Xtians v Sinner = Guns
|Date: 22 Jan 97 22:23:16
EID:8308 2236b2e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e69355
-> On 18 Jan 97 09:25:30, Lynda Bustilloz got back to Richard Smith
DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
LB> ;)
RS> Now, does Yahveh go to Hell for his sins?
LB> Only if he doesn't ask himself for forgiveness...
Which leads to another problem: How does he know he isn't
lying to himself to save his sorry ass?
... We refer to the Holy Trinity as Big Daddy, Junior and the Spook
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Add BW
|Date: 22 Jan 97 22:54:44
EID:201d 2236b6c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e69ab5
Marty, I figured you may like to see this info:
* Originally Re: Add BW
* Original Area: Offline Echo Support
Now that George is back to issuing registrations and the echo has two
moderators, it is back to BW support (instead of the bickering and
fighting it was doing when there was no moderator in sight).
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:16:14
EID:499d 2236ba00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e69fbe
-> On 18 Jan 97 02:16:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Why not, Al? Zero works quite well mathematically.
JB> Uh, as far as I can see, math doesn't work at all without zero. You
JB> get to 9 and there's nowhere else to go.
For using positive integers, there are rather convoluted ways
of working around it:
A: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X ... C ... D ... M
B: Un, dous, trois, quatre, cinq, six, sept, huit, neuf, dix ...
vingt ... quatre-vingt ... cent ... mille
I don't think that an abacus has a notation for zero, other
than a blank....
However, the Zero does make arabic base-10 arithmatic a lot
easier to handle! (and spell!) I think the French version
just may be one of the toughest to use.
... Einstein has "I before E" wrong twice in his name.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ...
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:18:20
EID:65b8 2236ba40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a03c
-> On 20 Jan 97 05:18:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Al Schroeder
-> Re: ...
AS> be found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when
AS> the world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
JB> WOW!! You mean like 'I'm mellllllting into the color...can't you see
JB> it'?
Strange... I sent him a post that could have been a poor
carbon copy of that one!
Far fucking out, man!
... "I seem to be having these recurring visions of deja vu": MontyPython
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:25:24
EID:2b56 2236bb20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a1e5
-> On 20 Jan 97 01:55:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
RC> Shall we combine the two? "Beavis and Biblehead" anyone?
JB> Too bad you don't have internet access You'd love this one.
JB> http://www.cfw.com/~steven8r/church.html
JB> The Church of Beavis Christ.
Damn you! Forcing me to spend my kid's legacy and upgrade
my computer! (But, I guess it's for a good cause!)
Is it a big file(s)? If not and it will fit on a 1.44 floppy,
I can find a way to d/l it.
... The Norse gods' favorite music--Ragnarok'n'roll.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: archives
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:29:00
EID:2a29 2236bba0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a2bd
-> On 14 Jan 97 11:25:00, Judith Bandsma got back to All
JB> I'm looking for archives of the stupidest, most illogical and/or the
JB> most repugnant posts to hit this echo. (In the last year only, please,
JB> I don't have THAT much space.)
Just archive anything that Staal sends. They'll cover any and
all of the above.
As to repugnant, those of Ken Weins probably take top honors
in that category.
... "Weins" is a typo for "wines", but is missing the "h" to complete it.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:35:12
EID:5827 2236bc60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a431
-> On 21 Jan 97 11:11:21, Jason Harmon got back to Fredric Rice
FR> And a double standard? What if a boy wore black lipstick to school?
JH> He would be sent to talk to the counselor.
Or sent to an audition as a back-up singer for KISS.
... I plan to live forever, or die trying.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: brett johnson; jealou
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:40:12
EID:d362 2236bd00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a55d
-> On 21 Jan 97 16:43:16, Marilyn Burge got back to Curtis Johnson
MB> It is no accident that the names Ramoses and Moses are as close as
MB> they are. Many OT scholars believe that Ramoses II WAS Moses, and
MB> _Mythology's Last Gods_ is a pretty good read. It was originally a
So, Marilyn, just how much money do you make each year off of
shilling books for publishers/authors?
Thanks for adding to my LIBRARY file!
... "Gotta peddle faster, the truth is after me . . ."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: CEPPA HAS HIS HEAD UP HIS
|Date: 22 Jan 97 23:47:58
EID:b377 2236bde0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6a72f
-> On 20 Jan 97 20:15:19, Bill Wolff got back to Martin Goldberg
BW> Sagan admits that the fossil record could be consistent with
MG> You are a liar.
BW> Buzz! Wrong answer!
Of course it is, to your lying ass.
Get it through your thick head that you have been debunked
from here to eternity, Billy Boy.
Your 'damage control' has been doing more damage that has
already been afflicted upon you. Keep up the good work and
there won't be a think left of you other than the atoms that
once formed you.
... "I could prove Carl Sagan wrong, but what would that get me?" B Wolff
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:08:32
EID:28b9 22370100
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6ac00
-> On 20 Jan 97 20:33:58, Patriot got back to Dan Ceppa
Pa> the pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the ride.
DC> That explains why your car looks like it's been recycled already.
Pa> I KNEW someone was spying on me.. :)
No, just a check on your insurance records, Ken.
Pa> ANd I said we SHOULD let Him take over. I never said we always do.
Then, either your god is a very poor driver or non-existant.
Which one is it?
... God is just as compassionate as the people who created him.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:13:56
EID:1248 223701a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6ad44
-> On 20 Jan 97 20:35:36, Patriot got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> No, it's all based on the fact that Swaggart is a lying sack of
DC> shit that uses his religion as an exuse to continue to be a
DC> lying sack of shit.
Pa> Oh, he lies? Then I am sure you have an example or two so we will
Pa> know you aren't just talking..
How long was Swaggart seaking around and seeing Debra Mcphree
on a pay by fuck basis, Ken? At the same time, the bastard
was decrying pornography and wanton sex. When the fucker
was caught, it was with her and in his car with a shitload
of porn magazines in his car.
Kiss Swaggart's ass, Ken. After all, he cried tears galore
when he was caught. Then, a bit later, he was caught again.
... Jimmy Swaggart's home for wayward girls: Paradise Motel!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:16:56
EID:673a 22370200
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6adf8
-> On 21 Jan 97 11:48:26, Patriot got back to Robert Curry
RC> who really and truly did suffer the agonies of crucifixion, lasting
RC> sometimes for days.
Pa> He came as man, thus He could feel pain like any other man..
And, as a man, he didn't stay dead like every other man that
has ever died, did he, Young.
... You're like an idiot savant, only without the savant part.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Hey!
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:18:58
EID:12bd 22370240
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6ae73
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:39:31, Ed Mills got back to Richard Smith
EM> Where'dja go, you old cuss?
Good question (though I know the answer), as I haven't seen
a message from him in some time.
... Heck is reserved for all that don't believe in Gosh...
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:23:18
EID:c41f 223702e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6af76
-> On 21 Jan 97 09:02:48, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa
DW> 20 Jan 97 20:35, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:
JF> Let me guess.... you're rich, aren't you? Only the people with no
JF> material want ignore God. Then the second they have a problem, they
JF> come crawling back.
DW> You filthy capitalist swine, you.
DW> Gimme $50.
Only if you pay this promissory note that you owe me $100,000.
Hell, if you do that, I'll give you half of it back, plus
the $50!
... I'm just here for moral support...ignore the gun....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:36:00
EID:756f 22370480
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b271
-> On 20 Jan 97 02:06:00, Judith Bandsma got back to All
DC>> Bull****. Your godling was there for the Jews. It was Saul who
JF> Why do you keep referring to Jesus as a godling? He was (or rather,
JB> Or did god Dan really say 'Bull-stars'?
God fucking damn, Judith... I don't even know what the hell
a 'Bull-shit-stars' are.
However, I do know someone that thinks they are in the possession
of their own personal Purity Filter.
Now, to re-watch George Carlin and get back up to speed on
the proper use of the Seven Words...
... "Fuck you and everybody that looks like you", mused Pooh Carlin.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Idiot postings
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:43:52
EID:89b1 22370560
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b448
-> On 21 Jan 97 20:37:57, David Worrell got back to Patriot
P> Now, on to "Xtian." WHy use this? ISn't this just trying to take
P> Christ out of Christianity?
DW> Do *any* of you Christers know this history of your religion? The
DW> abbreviation "xtian" was coined *by* a Christian. Here's a hint for
DW> you: how did the Greeks spell Christ?
Here's a bigger hint: The appelation had to be that way, as
it is Greek, not Araimic or Judaic in origin.
... "Hey, let's steal the hubcaps off this cart!": Jesus, age 17
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:48:56
EID:6f61 22370600
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b579
-> On 21 Jan 97 11:11:21, Jason Harmon got back to Al Schroeder
RH> Her answer was that she would not remember me. Now, since we have
AS> What???? Where does she get that?
JH> Maybe it's "God's plan" for keeping us happy.
JH> Would you be happy if you knew your wife was burning for eternity?
Raising my hand! (Maybe hell _is_ a good thing after all!)
... I still miss my ex-wife, but my aim is getting better.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Mormonism isn't even close to Christianity
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:53:22
EID:4861 223706a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b682
-> On 20 Jan 97 18:00:00, Darryl Gonzalez got back to Al Schroeder
...................... ^^^^^^^^^^^^
DG> Hi Dan.
DG> Sorry, guys, Mormonism isn't even CLOSE to Christianity, or at least,
Hi, Darryl, and your other brother, Darryl.
Do you have any idea how to use your OLR?
... I'm not interested in your dopey religious cult.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:55:04
EID:f0a0 223706e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b6e9
-> On 21 Jan 97 11:39:32, Patriot got back to Marilyn Burge
MB> YOU do YOUR homework. Many of them were deists, which is a long loooooong
Pa> SOME were deists, most were not. From Washington to Adams, America's
Both deits, Kenny. Try again.
... God choose his workers by availability NOT ability....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 23 Jan 97 00:58:14
EID:a232 22370740
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b7a6
-> On 18 Jan 97 02:26:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Don Martin
DM> incidentally, is the Hopi.
JB> With a WONDERFUL tradition. The man is never allowed to even *look*
at
JB> his mother-in-law.
I wish I had never had that opportunity. Where are these gems
of wisdom when you really need them?
... Christianity: mental loitering with intent.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:05:10
EID:a232 223708a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b947
-> On 18 Jan 97 09:41:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Perhaps she should have read a bit first before jumping into
DC> the fray.
JB>
JB> Perhaps she should have been allowed to read more than selected short
JB> subjects before being encouraged to enter the echo.
That too. My kids have seen some selected messages from here,
but nowhere near the brunt of them. As much as I give them
credit for good comprehension, I doubt if the two of them
together could seriously wade through the real content
without a lot of supervision at every turn.
As much as age is not supposed to be a factor, maturity is
moreso. Few, if any, that have posted here at about 17 or
younger have lasted long. Perhaps we should start a Junior
Holysmoke Echo to give the rug-rats a running start!
... New ideas don't happen by following the proscribed path
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:07:48
EID:a232 223708e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6b9e5
-> On 18 Jan 97 09:43:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Good question. However, the fact remains that syphilis was a
DC> childhood disease in this hemisphere when the Europeans contracted
JB> Should be able to answer some of these questions shortly. Got a book
JB> today called Plagues and Peoples, about how disease influenced
JB> societal formations and growth.
JB> I have 2 books ahead of it so give me a couple weeks.
No problem. Got my info from Glodberg. I do think that what
you read will confirm his info.
If not, you get to fight it out with him!
... What was the last thing to go thru Kurt Cobain's mind? His Teeth!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:11:36
EID:48af 22370960
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6bac8
-> On 20 Jan 97 20:31:54, Patriot got back to David Worrell
DW> Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other
DW> possible gods? Don't you think they're gonna be a
DW> little pissed that you spent your life worshipping Jehovah?
Pa> You tell me.. DO many of them have much against worshipping other
Pa> gods?
Got any god(s) that exist(s), Ken? Evidence, like a tissue
sample, would do for a start.
... If you understand the bible, how can you believe in it?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:32:18
EID:4e57 22370c00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6bfa2
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:31:01, Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> from text in a message. Plus, before I save the stolen text,
DC> I can edit it as necessary.
DC> ... Ed Mills, you NEED Blue Wave! <---see!
EM> I'll download it, but I don't even know what a "tosser" is. Ppoint
It get's a bit complicated, but not overly so. (I figured it
out, but that's because I'm a god! )
EM> terminal and the text editor. Is the Binkley terminal thing what
EM> does the tossing?
Nope, that the program that runs your modem to do the up/dl's.
EM> to lean too much on any one person, and he's already been so kind
EM> as to let me schlep mail off his system. :)
Ask him to turn on the Offline and/or Bluewave echoes, as
well as the Ppoint echo, as that's what you are using.
Anyhow, when you do a d/l, you get a file like "200af01.SU0"
That's the first d/l (per the *.SU0 extension) that you will
get on some Sunday. I'm guessing, but the "2" may mean in
Februrary...
Anyhow, that's the "raw messages". They are tossed by a
program into readable format by an OLR. Terminate does
that to a JAM-type format, though there are others. PPOINT
does the same, but into it's own format for use with it's
own OLR.
I use OMX to change the JAM messages into a Blue Wave compatable
format. Thre, I use the BW OLR to read/respond/enter new messages.
I use the reverse in OMX to take the messages I wrote
and send them back to Terminate for sending to my BOSS.
Takes a bit of keying and some time in the translation, but it
works for me.
Perhaps I'll see you in some of the above echos. I know that
Steve Quarella is interested in a similar system for Silver
Express. If there's an interest, perhaps it could become
seamless, as mine, as it stands, requires a bit of kludging
to get back and forth from the d/l and reader. But, that's
the price I pay as a martyred god!
... I'm only a god. What the hell do you expect of me!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Patriot
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:34:46
EID:de5e 22370c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6c036
-> On 21 Jan 97 12:22:42, Patriot got back to Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> But you don't see me blowing up churches or shooting
GtP> ministers.
Pa> EVERYTHING it stands for? To me, CHristanity stands for love, peace,
Pa> justice, and freedom.. Not exactly horrible concepts..
Too bad your religion's history has not come close to living
up to your expectations of it, Kenny.
... What are these churches now if not the tombs and sepulchers of God?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:38:36
EID:edda 22370cc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6c11c
-> On 13 Jan 97 08:49:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Al Schroeder
JB> Identical twins, playing the games that twins do...PRETENDING TO BE
JB> EACH OTHER (in this case, one having a handy stand-in) could very
JB> easily fool people who had known 'him' for a very long time.
LMAO!
I knew a guy in college that didn't know that he was
dating twins! They trade off on him when one or the other
didn't get a date for that weekend.
Funniest thing was that he ended up marrying the twin that
didn't like him.
... +Origin: MENDELIAN NETWORK: Cross-pollinating myths for Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:40:02
EID:edda 22370d00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6c173
-> On 15 Jan 97 05:34:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig. Al prefers
LB> superhero comics.
JB> How can anyone revere a character who hasn't changed his clothes in
50
JB> years?
Accute nasal congestion?
... And now, for something completely different.....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Alignment List
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:43:24
EID:d672 22370d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6c23c
-> On 20 Jan 97 16:09:28, J.J. Hitt got back to Brian Shreve
BS> I think I should stop before I endure JJ's wrath.
JH> I don't see why not. Everyone else is able to endure it.
JH> Besides, they think you're me. (Which is as close to damnnation
JH> as anything this medium has to offer.)
He's not you? Why not?
If he is, why would he admit such a thing????
The possibilities are simply staggering to the mind... I
think I'll have another keg of beer and sort it out in
the morning.
... "He killed her in a rit of fealous jage." Inspector Clouseau
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 23 Jan 97 01:53:26
EID:7d58 22370ea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6c497
-> On 19 Jan 97 03:56:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Martin Goldberg
(What's this? The respond to Judith packet packet?)
MG> out. Those nurses who have an ounce of intelligence move on to do
MG> other things including being managers and the like. If you only knew
JB> the robotic end of the profession, where your livelihood depends on
JB> being able to say 'yes, doctor' with a smile on your face while wanting
JB> to scream 'asshole'.
I knew a nurse that did exactly that. It may have helped that
she was the Head Nurse of the facility. It may have helped
even more that she was a former Major in the Nurse's Corps
in the Army.
However, she did call the Head Doctor an asshole in just
as few words, plus a few choicer ones.
The doctor wanted her fired on the spot. She said, "OK"
The rest of the staff said that they would walk out the
door with her.
From then on, the doctor called her, "Sir".
I do miss that tough daughter-of-a-bitch. She was the fairest
person I've even worked with. The toughest, but the fairest.
... Rose Vielkind, you and Sophie Silberman are a pair that always win.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:05:18
EID:6bd4 223668a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e61143
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e5039d
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Jan 97 12:24, Don Martin wrote to Curtis Johnson:
DM> Another interesting point: notice that elephants are
DM> used for carrying (both trunk and back), pushing, and
DM> dragging logs and such, but not for drawing. I have never
DM> seen an elephant cart depicted anywhere. Certainly it has
DM> the mass and the strength to draw, but somehow has
DM> apparently not been found suitable for the task.
That might be an engineering concern, rather than something inherent in
elephants. Making a suitable cart that will ride level for a horse (or similar
sized animal) is one thing - making one for an elephant would be a bit more
difficult, especially when considering the materials generally available.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:44:48
EID:0644 22366d80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e619f0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e462da
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Jan 97 01:31, Patriot wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Here's a hint, dumbass. What about all the other
DW>> possible gods? Don't you think they're gonna be a
DW>> little pissed that you spent your life worshipping Jehovah?
P> You tell me.. DO many of them have much against worshipping other
P> gods?
Do you have anything against other men sleeping with your wife?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:48:28
EID:0477 22366e00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e61adc
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 112a2483
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Jan 97 11:10, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> That's just too damn bad, ain't it? If you don't like being in
DW>> the "Raving Loon" category, you need to make some changes in your
DW>> life.
JB> Appleton's a creationist. 'Nuff said.
Indeed.
"He's a Scientologist! I'm not a raving loon like *him*, I'm a Hare Krishna!"
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:49:16
EID:a23c 22366e20
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e61b8b
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 cec26458
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Jan 97 11:13, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> As we so often tell the other fundies, it is not our
DW>> responsibility to go out and dig for evidence to support your
DW>> claims. If you've got
JB> As I so often tell the fundie-atheists: Without sufficient interest
on
JB> your part,
Interest that it is up to you to cultivate, John. All I've seen so far sounds
like the ravings of a madman, and a egotistical one at that (now *meteors*
appear at your command?!).
DW>> something, present it. If it interests anyone, I'm sure they'll
DW>> be happy to dig through your "reading list" looking for more.
JB> To date, no fundie-atheist has dug through the reading list at all,
Considering the source of said list, I really can't blame any of them. You
come off like a nutcase, John. I can't speak for anyone else here, but don't
have enough free time to dig into what inspired your lunacy.
DW>> All you've offered up to this point is bullshit. If I want to see
DW>> more
JB> Liar.
Still bullshit, John.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: truth
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:53:06
EID:725a 22366ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e61bf5
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 51b28267
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Jan 97 11:24, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Indeed. It is hard to be subjected to something that doesn't
DW>> exist.
JB> Even harder to find yourself subjected to something you wouldn't
JB> recognize if it jumped up and bit your ass.
I'm sure it is.
DW> DW>>> I guess the 500k of your posts I've got here don't count,
DW> DW>>> eh?
JB>> Depends on your definition of "get someone's goat,"
DW>> Keep dancing, John.
JB> Keep imagining, David.
Like I imagined your recent attempts at circling the wagons with the Todds,
baitboy?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:53:56
EID:b243 22366ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e61c1e
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 dbcc6400
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Jan 97 18:47, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Shit. First McCullough bails, now Gwen follows suit. What's your
DW>> excuse gonna be, Brawley? A triple by-pass, or some such
DW>> nonsense?
JB> Nope. Your balderdash suffers recently from lack of creativity,
Recently? So the Quantum Bait Shop *was* creative? Thanks.
---
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|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: US CyberCensor Law
|Date: 23 Jan 97 09:55:52
EID:c5f9 22374ee0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 2e787fab
CHRS: IBMPC 2
* Forwarded (from: INETMAIL) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd 1.10+.
* Originally from --Todd Lappin-- (1:382/87) to terry liberty-parker (1:382/804).
* Original dated: Thu Jan 23, 09:45
From: --Todd Lappin--
THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
January 22, 1997
Quietly and without much fanfare, the run-up to the Supreme Court's review
of the Communications Decency Act has now gotten underway.
I have two major pieces of news to report:
First, we now know when we'll have our day in the nation's highest court.
It's official -- on Wednesday March 19, 1997 at 10 AM, the nine justices
of
the US Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case of Janet Reno,
Attorney General of the United States v. American Civil Liberties Union
et
al. Mark your calendars and datebooks, because March 19 will be a watershed
moment in the history of free speech on the Internet.
In another piece of important news, on Tuesday, January 21, 1997 the US
Department of Justice filed their first brief in support of the CDA before
the Supreme Court.
(A full text version of the DoJ brief is available at:
http://www.cdt.org/ciec/SC_appeal/970121_DOJ_brief.html )
I received a copy of the DoJ brief last night, and after spending a few
hours pouring through its 14,000 words, I can promise you that this
document won't win any literary prizes for 1997.
In truth, the thing reads with all the passion of a coroner's report. But
the cold detachment does nothing to diminish the thinness of the
Government's argument that the CDA is fully constitutional and that "there
are no alternatives that would be equally effective in advancing the
Government's interests" in shielding minors from inappropriate material.
Elsewhere, Janet Reno's footsoldiers claim, "Because the CDA's restrictions
are all facially constitutional, and because any infirmity in those
provisions could not justify the [Philadelphia] district court's sweeping
injunction, the district court's judgment should be reversed."
How does the Government reach this stunning conclusion?
It begins with a bizarre argument that censoring the Internet is an
effective way to defend the ideals of the First Amendment. The DoJ brief
says:
"Parents and their children have a First Amendment right to receive
information and acquire knowledge ... and the Internet has unmatched
potential to facilitate that interest. Much of the Internet's potential
as
an educational and informational resource will be wasted, however, if
people are unwilling to avail themselves of its benefits because they do
not want their children harmed by exposure to patently offensive sexually
explicit material. The government therefore not only has an especially
strong interest in protecting children from patently offensive material
on
the Internet, it has an equally compelling interest in furthering the First
Amendment interest of all Americans to use what has become an unparalleled
educational resource."
In other words, the Government's defense of Internet censorship boils down
to a paternalistic, "tough love" argument that "this hurts me more than
it
hurts you."
The DoJ then moves on to cite a 1968 case as justification for the
provisions of the CDA which prohibit the sending of indecent material to
children with knowledge that the recipient is under 18:
"Those provisions are essentially no different from the prohibition on the
sale of indecent material to minors upheld in Ginsberg v. New York. Like
that prohibition, the transmission and specific child provisions [of the
CDA] directly prevent the dissemination of indecent material to children
without prohibiting adult access to that material."
The problem here is that no viable systems currently exist that allow
noncommercial Internet publishers to verify the age of individuals
receiving potentially "indecent" online material. (Consider, for example,
that as the publisher of this mailing list, it is impossible for me to
verify how old you are as you read this message.) The DoJ glosses over this
issue of age verification with a dreamy glance toward the technological
future, saying:
"Those who post indecent material on Web sites for commercial purposes can
ensure that only adults have access to their material by requiring a credit
card number or an adult ID. Similarly, operators of noncommercial Web sites
can use adult verification services for that purpose. There are also ways
to communicate through other Internet applications that would not expose
children to indecency. And, as technology evolves, the opportunities for
adult-to-adult communication of indecent material will expand even further"
What will these "opportunities for adult-to-adult communication" look like?
The DoJ seems to have two scenarios in mind -- both of which seem absurd
when applied to the Internet.
The first assumes that the Internet can be regulated much like broadcast
television. Citing the 1978 Supreme Court case of FCC v. Pacifica, the
brief argues:
"Just as it was constitutional for the FCC to channel indecent broadcasts
to times of the day when children most likely would not be exposed to them,
so Congress could channel indecent communications to places on the Internet
where children are unlikely to obtain them. Indeed, there is a stronger
justification for the display provision than there was for the restriction
approved in Pacifica. The indecency problem on the Internet is much more
pronounced than it is on broadcast stations."
So what is to be done? Here the DoJ moves on to make it's second
assumption -- that censorship will consign all "indecent" online material
to an Internet "red light district" that minors cannot enter. Again
relying on earlier precedents, the DoJ puts forth the idea that:
"City of Renton v. Playtime Theatres, Inc. (1986) and Young v. American
Mini Theatres, Inc. (1976) also support the constitutionality of the [CDA's
provisions which ban the display of "indecent" material in areas where they
can be seen by minors]. In effect, the display provision operates as an
adult "cyberzoning" restriction, very much like the adult theater zoning
ordinances upheld in Renton and Young. Just as the cities of Detroit and
Renton could direct adult theaters away from residential neighborhoods,
so
Congress could direct purveyors of indecent material away from areas of
cyberspace that are easily accessible to children."
Of course, the only feasible way to create such a system of "cyberzoning"
would be to deploy a less restrictive system that uses filtering software
to facilitate parental control and shield minors from inappropriate online
material. However, citing the ostensible "wisdom" of Congress, the DoJ
explicitly rejects this approach:
"Congress reasonably determined that commercial software that attempts to
screen out indecent information only partially addresses the problem. Such
software cannot identify all existing sexually explicit sites; it cannot
keep pace with the rapid emergence of numerous new sexually explicit sites;
it places the entire burden on parents; and it is owned by only a small
fraction of Americans."
Finally, the DoJ challenges the Philadelphia court's decision that the
CDA's speech restrictions are unconstitutionally vague. (The CDA, you will
recall, uses criminal penalties to restrict the dissemination of material
that, "in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as
measured by contemporary community standards, sexual or excretory
activities or organs.")
Does that mean that the CDA's "indecency" provisions effectively ban the
use of George Carlin's so-called "Seven Dirty Words" in cyberspace?
Classic works of literature that contain sexual content? AIDS education
information?
Sure seems that way. Yet the DoJ wants the Supreme Court to pretend
otherwise. They argue:
"The historical meaning of the CDA's indecency definition and the CDA's
legislative history indicate that the kind of graphic pictures that appear
in soft-porn and hard-core porn magazines almost always would be covered,
while material having scientific, educational, or news value almost always
would not be covered. There may be borderline cases in which it is
difficult to determine on which side of the line particular material falls.
But that does not show that the CDA's definition of indecency is
unconstitutionally vague."
We'll see what the Supremes have to say about all this come March.
And in the meantime...
Work the network!
--Todd Lappin-->
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine
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The CDA Disaster Network is a moderated distribution list providing
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WARNING: This is not a test! WARNING: This is not a drill!
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---
--- timEd 1.10+
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|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: 2 ACLU News 01-22-97: Internet, Same-Sex Marriage, Wiretaps, And
More
|Date: 23 Jan 97 10:22:38
EID:47b1 223752c0
SPLIT: 23 Jan 97 10:59:25 @382/804 6 02/02 +++++++++++
CHRS: IBMPC 2
recommending medical marijuana to their patients. The defendants named
in
the suit are the key federal officials involved in drafting and implementing
the Clinton administration strategy.
Proposition 215 altered California law by creating a new exemption for a
specific group of people -- seriously ill patients who are using marijuana
on
the "recommendation or approval" of a physician. If an arrested patient
is to
be exonerated, he or she must prove that a physician advised that marijuana
was medically appropriate for that patient.
At a news conference announcing the suit, Jo Daly, a former police
commissioner of San Francisco and a patient who uses marijuana medically,
said, "The federal government is trying to intimidate the doctors who treat
me for cancer. Marijuana literally saved my life by stopping the horrible
vomiting caused by my chemotherapy. Bureaucrats like Barry McCaffrey want
to
get in between me and my doctors and make me another victim of their drug
policies. This began as a war on drugs, now it's become a war on doctors."
The ACLU's lawsuit contends that the Administration's plan to prosecute
From: ACLU Newsfeed Owner
doctors who prescribe marijuana for pateints with illnesses like cancer
and
AIDS intrudes on the dcotor-patient relationship in violation of the First
Amendment.
"The lawsuit doesn't deal with whether marijuana is efficacious as a medicine
or not whether people should be smoking it or taking it," said Dr. Marcus
A.
Conant, in an interview with the New York Times. Conant, an AIDS specialist
in San Francisco, is the lead plaintiff in the case. "The suit is all about
freedom of speech."
In response to the ongoing controversy, the Clinton Administration recently
ordered an 18-month study of clinical, medical and scientific evidence on
the
medical use of marijuana.
USA Today's Baby Boomer panel approved the initiative. "Why can't we stop
all our bitching and moaning, spend some money and figure out what the
medical uses really are?" asked William Paprota of Overland Park, Kansas.
"Why can't we explore it a little bit?"
----------------------------------------------------------------
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*very* active message boards, and complete news on civil liberties, at
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---
--- timEd 1.10+
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|From: STEVE KEMP
|To: ROB BURCHAM
|Sub: .
|Date: 22 Jan 97 13:01:00
EID:caa6 22366820
MSGID: 1:203/49 2599cc95
TID: GE 1.2
RB>AS> And that's still a wise decision. Tell people how much you love
RB>AS> them NOW. Tomorrow may be too late.
RB>Hey everybody, I love you! Whew! I feel better.
Gee! Thanks (blush)
---
* CMPQwk #1.42-R2* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
--- GEcho 1.20/Pro
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 22 Jan 97 19:37:00
EID:e5ee 22369ca0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0b13569c
>RC>All those who choose the mental slavery of religious dogmatism, yes.
>RC>So your masters have finally allowed you to speak! How intriguing.
> ALL!! Are under mental slavery. Your master is satan. Only satan
> wants Christianity to be attacked - and you are doing just what he
> wants you to do.
Hey, genius... Satan is a Christian concept. Those outside of
your dogmatic dictates do not accept either as a master.
We merely master the art of exposing the ignorance of those
who insist upon acknowledging the supposed existence of either.
Posting dogmatic diatribe does nothing to credit your disguise.
You are obviously some non-theist attempting to pull other
non-theist's strings. Otherwise, you would have something at least
semi-rational to offer in defense of Christianity. If by some
remote chance you actually DO believe any of your nonsense,
you do fellow Christians an injustice by your apparent lack of
any understanding thereof.
> If you weren't a slave to satan you wouldn't care
> one way or the other.
Care enough to be apathetic. Unless you don't want to.
It makes no difference whatsoever to what is or what isn't.
Reality is totally unaffected by your strongest belief.
---
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: All
|Sub: Conference Guidelines
|Date: 22 Jan 97 19:38:00
EID:0724 22369cc0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 0b13569d
Re: HOLYSMOKE Echo Guidelines
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in this echo are those of the writers
identified in the header of each message. No other responsibility
is expressed or implied for the content of the messages in this echo.
Rules to Follow:
[1] Please refrain from attempting to force your ideas on others,
or to be deliberately disruptive in the echo.
Those who engage in such activity may find their feed to this
echo terminated.
[2] As is customary in echomail, private messages are not allowed.
[3] If you wish to post messages on this echo please try to keep
your comments and ideas on a rational level. This will help
to facilitate an open and free flowing dialogue.
Please refrain from entering statements like:
"I know I'm right and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid!"
or
"You're gonna burn in hell if you don't accept god."
Such messages only serve to irritate others, and do little
more than to raise the noise level of the echo.
[4] Attempt to quote only relevant text, in order to make your
messages more legible, and to lessen the burden on those
who pay to move each byte posted in this conference.
[5] Deliberate censorship of wording contained within a quote
attributed to another in this echo is expressly forbidden.
Echo Purpose: (To let you hear what you just said) ;-)
This echo provides an open forum where one can argue for or against
religion(s). Both religious and anti-religious views are allowed.
Atheists, agnostics, religious right-wingers, bible babblers,
bible bashers, preachers of doom, echovangelists, conservatives,
liberals and those with (hopefully curable) crucifixation are welcome
in HOLYSMOKE. (As long as they abide by the guidelines above!)
Enjoy and happy debating!
Styx Allum, Moderator (1:152/20)
P.O. Box 5150
Eugene, OR 97405-0150
---
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:38:30
EID:1eb3 223584c0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e633da
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db03f8
Hi Al...
On 13 Jan 97 20:19:43, Al Schroeder penned the following to Martin Goldberg
re: Bacteria and Evolution.
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether prayer
AS> actually works or not?
No need to "test" it, Al. Prayer does indeed work in some
situations, but it isn't cumulative, that is, it only works on
the person doing the praying and it only works on certain
things.
It should be noted that the type of "prayer" isn't relevant,
nor is the subject (like God or a deity) of the prayer. What is
important is attitude and positive thinking, which has an
effect on physical as well as mental health. That was known
long before "Positive Thinking" became capitalized as a
self-help option. God doesn't grant you things, YOU do. The
prayer is merely reinforcement.
It is also significant that laughter can have the same or
even better effect, especially with medical conditions of
various kinds. "Laughter is the best medicine" is not merely a
cliche, but was a fact of life when there was very little
"medicine" to be had.
Personally, given the opportunity to go to a church service or
watching a Marx Brothers movie on TV I'd take Chico over
Christo... B-})
John
... Chico of Borg: "Resistance? Atsa no good!"
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:58:06
EID:505c 22358740
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32e633db
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da145d
Hi Gwenny...
On 13 Jan 97 10:47:37, Gwenny the Pooh penned the following to Marty Leipzig
re: Cheese Whiz
KB>> Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
KB>> happy life as a vegetarian.
GtP>> Maybe YOU can, I can't. Seriously, I can't get all the chemicals
I
GtP>> need from legumes (besides the fact they make me ill). So it's meat
GtP>> or be miserable for me.
What many Vegans fail to realize is that everyone is different.
GtP> hernia which causes me mild discomfort if I only eat toast and coffee
GtP> for breakfast or, horrors, chili. (I think it's the beans) Having
Not to plug a commercial product or anything, but there is a
concoction called "Beano" in your drugstore's stomach remedy
department. It's an enzyme that helps digest complex sugars.
ML> I'd kill for a 64 oz. porterhouse, blood rare. Unfortunately,
GtP> I'm still confused as to why meat would be a problem. Wouldn't any
GtP> food catch in the little pouches??
I suspect there is more at work than the "little pouches".
Digestion is a complex process and it requires a balance of
enzymes and acids to function correctly. Fibre helps
it all work properly rather than protein.
ML> Oh, and I take gobs of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
ML> I wish they made them in beef flavor though...
How about beef consomme soup? Or sucking on an OXO cube? B-})
GtP> Yeah, because you can't get them from the natural source,
GtP> cow/deer/bison/pig flesh. I hope you feel better.
I hope he feels better too...
RevJohn
... "Be it ever so decadent, there's no place like home!" - T. Lehrer
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 23 Jan 97 10:13:22
EID:86e5 223751a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88dd46ad
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 12-Jan-1997, "Bacteria & Evolution.)
DC> -> On 11 Jan 97, Laurie Appleton got back to Al Schroeder
AS> niches left vacated by the dinosaurs...exactly as predicted
AS> by evolutionary theory. It is a prediction which has been
AS> borne out by the evidence.
LA> Are you now saying that God did NOT make the Dinosaurs
LA> like a good "clock maker" would do and that is why they did
DC> Of course not, Laurie. He's basing his statements on
DC> evidence.
What evidence is that? Don't you know that Punctuated
Equilibria evolutionists tell us that survival of the
fittest does NOT always apply and that more often than not
the evidence indicates "survival of the LUCKIEST".
They say that this applies particularly to Dinosaurs!
Prof. S.J. Gould writes;
"But, like sex, extinction is an ineluctable part of life.
It is the ultimate fate of all species, NOT the lot of
unfortunate and ill-designed creatures. It is NO sign of
failure."
(The Panda's Thumb, S.J. Gould, (1987 Penguin reprint), p.
220)(emphasis added)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 23 Jan 97 02:30:34
EID:95d5 223713c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6cd4b
-> On 21 Jan 97 10:07:48, John Brawley got back to Lee Woofenden
DW> ! Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
LW> How come you have John Brawley's origin line?
JB> Leave it alone, Lee.... You'll just provoke the fool.
The fool that was provoked was Lee, John. And, he does
that all on his own.
... Concrete minds...stirred up..full of rocks...and permantly set!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 23 Jan 97 02:41:38
EID:63f0 22371520
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e6cfe3
-> On 18 Jan 97 13:56:00, Michael Hardy got back to Fredric Rice
MH> Please excuse Michael for his absence from last night's meeting. He
MH> was sick in bed with a hangover from another meeting the night before.
MH> Signed, Epstein's mother."
I'd say you've watched too much TV, but I know the reference source.
BTW, not sure if your've been off-line, but I haven't seen a
message from you to anyone in a while.
Things alright?
... The LOTTERY: A tax on people who are bad at math!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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