God Damned Fundies!
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:46:17
EID:579c 22576dc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 01a2364e
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330dd064
On (21 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Marilyn Burge...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> John Brawly said to Marilyn Burge about 'First Cause' Crap:
jb> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number,"
jb> either? (*chuckle*)
RS> DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
RS> jb> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
RS> Infinite from ANY point, right?
That's the way infinity works. Yes.
... I'm not lazy, I'm doing research on inertia...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:57:10
EID:449f 22576f20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 864b3ce0
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 759d1cc1
On (20 Feb 97) Martin Goldberg babbled to Laurie Appleton...
LA> Ever hear of the DNA code? Highly complex codes don't arise
LA> by themselves anymore than intelligent communications
MG> The DNA code is not complex, Dipshit. Figure it out. 64
MG> codons coding for 20 amino acids.
^^^^^^
At first, I thought you said 64 CONDOMS, and I couldn't WAIt
to read the rest of the sentence.
MG> Maybe this is too complex for your simple mind, but no
MG> someone with a bit of intelligence.
In today's Ask Marilyn column, somebody asked her if a person who
had just recently had a blood transfusion could get a false
positive on a DNA test in a murder case.
She said that the foreign DNA in the sample would quickly be found
to be foreign, and would only be present for a few days, anyway,
until the body replaced the foreign blood with "local" stuff. She
said that if the person had a complete transfusion because of
really, really serious injury, there would be so much foreign DNA
present that only an idiot would think they were getting a "good"
reading (people only get one pint of blood from each donor,
according to her), and they would be too weak to be a suspect in a
murder case, anyway.
Do you agree?
... Creationists: Transitional forms between idiots and morons.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:28:49
EID:acd3 22577380
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 735adc50
On (22 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz babbled to MARIO GONZALEZ...
LB> Norman and Mario were killing time yakking about Conversion:
LB> (YES, people, it's salad bar-ism. No SENSIBLE theist should be
LB> without their Salad Bar!)
Not necessarily. If you are a theist who sees the Bible as
a chronicle of Man's search for god and his perceptions of
what he saw in god, there is no salad bar involved. There
is merely an understanding that when Man concluded he had
found god, he was often mistaken.
... A man without god is like a fish without a bicycle.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oh no . . .
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:49:42
EID:84d5 22577620
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a81af267
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6ed8
On (21 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to All...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Terry Liberty-parker said to Rod Swift about ACLU News
RS> 01-30-97: Chri:
RS> ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?"
RS> ROD> Swift :)
TL> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
RS> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks
RS> like. Damn.
Don't you know that libertarianism is the really, really big
tent that the Republicans only dream about?
My fundy friend and I are both libertarians (small l). He
says he'd vote for a libertarian candidate in a heartbeat, if
they ever found one that didn't have a lifestyle that spoke
loudly of his wish to dodge the bullet of the laws he'd been
wilfully breaking for years.
... He's is a scrotum... halfway between a prick and an asshole.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:54:53
EID:790e 225776c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8f2df82f
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 4dea57dd
On (18 Feb 97) Norman Solomon babbled to Dan Ceppa...
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Norman Solomon <=-
NS> Hi Dan
DC> Impress us some more. Tell us you are Chris Green in disguise.
DC> That should surely "Wow!" us.
NS> Who on earth is "Chris Green"?
He came in here with a gigantic chip on his shoulder, telling
us all his physical and psychiatric woes, followed by a
recitation of his IQ scores qualifying him for Mensa. He
then left to have brain surgery.
He's also from England.
We take a dim view of people from the "old country" looking
down their noses at us mere colonial renegades who managed
to whip you ass.
... Teenages are God's punishment for enjoying sex!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:26:21
EID:27d5 22571b40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fb8f2
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 4f2b631a
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 08:51, John Brawley wrote to Mark Kimes:
JB> Give me the 'formal math language' direct and unambiguous equivalent
JB> for "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become
JB> one point." Else, grant that it doesn't exist.
Zero.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:28:36
EID:c187 22571b80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fb99a
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 b6007628
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 09:38, John Brawley wrote to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> I been gettin' this sort of shit from people (at least some of which
JB> were less foolish than you) most of my _life_.
"I've been treated like a crackpot for most of my _life_."
That should tell you something, John.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:31:44
EID:c187 22571be0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbaeb
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 fbbbb06a
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 10:01, John Brawley wrote to Mark Kimes:
JB> For someone supposedly so careful and intelligent, I find it hard to
JB> believe you think that lies and sophistry, not to mention character
JB> assassination, are effective means of argument.
No one here is *arguing* with you, John. We're all just making fun of you.
JB> I have yet, for example, to get an answer from _anyone_, as to the
JB> correct formal-math way of phrasing, writing, or using the concept
JB> "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB> point." That is a _critical_ underlying concept for my geotopological
JB> construct, and I can't get _diddlyshit_ from you supposedly math-aware
JB> types in here, as to a "standard math" way of saying or writing it.
Zero.
JB> In the main, sophistry, inaccurate understanding, prevarication and
JB> character assassination can have no effect upon the actual geo-
JB> topological formulation I'm having to deal with. A network of
JB> dimensionless, but 'real,' points, of vertex order twelve is not a
JB> matter of opinion; it is simply what it is, and the 'metaphysical'
JB> aspects, such as axiomatically deciding that the nodes (points) of the
JB> network are noncoalesceable (which _requires_ a way to say "minimum
JB> distance" without defining a pre-existing metric), are either
JB> speakable in standard math terms, or they are _not_.
Have you conversed with Gardner about your horsesh...err, "hypothesis"?
Considering his love for math and your alleged former correspondence with
him, I'd say he would have been the first to enter your head.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:35:51
EID:ee80 22571c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbb79
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d2abe
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 23:55, Ken Young wrote to Dan Ceppa:
KY> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato plant before. Or any
"wild" vegetable, for that matter.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:37:36
EID:b960 22571ca0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbbec
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d3bfa
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 01:08, Ken Young wrote to Roger Hunter:
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there.
No more arrogant than the belief that all we see around us was created solely
for our benefit.
Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we (humanity)
are the "most superior beings out there."
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:39:32
EID:e91c 22571ce0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbc1e
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 9a6c5ff5
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Feb 97 14:58, Norman Solomon wrote to Judith Bandsma:
NS> It would be very interesting to know what you (& others) think
NS> children should be sheltered from, if anything.
From preachers/priests/pastors that want to molest them, for starters.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:40:26
EID:98ef 22571d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbc74
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 6ec26195
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Feb 97 15:15, Norman Solomon wrote to Lynda Bustilloz:
NS> The point I was trying to make to DW was, that to label someone with
a
NS> whole bunch of negatives just because they are a Christian, is wrong
NS> by any ethical standards.
Is it wrong to "label someone with a whole bunch of negatives" just because
they are a white supremicist? Would you also label this behavior "racist?"
---
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:07:50
EID:be92 225770e0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 225770f9
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
MG> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or two ago.
The
MG> people in the lab hadn't believed me. One good thing about the guy...he's
MG> gawddamned consistant.
With all those typefaces and sizes, it looks like a ransom note, doesn't
it?
The boy's psychotic.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing li
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:07:54
EID:4c00 225770e0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 225770fb
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
FR>> It might not work. I need funding for more research. }:-}
DW> Brawley's the loaded one here... ask him for the money.
Probably not worth it. Drugs don't spend like they used to.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:25
EID:a1f6 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101980
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 cbe2747f
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
19 Feb 97 11:06, quoting John Brawley to Katherine Wintersnight:
JB> (*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
JB> Sorry, Katherine, but the shoe's not on the foot you think it is.
JB> My sense of humor is not only intact, but is also both subtle and
JB> sometimes downright convoluted. Whom do you credit for keeping this
JB> thing alive this long? those buffoons, or me?
Wriggle little fishie...wriggle.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:08
EID:40bc 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101971
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 6af92c0b
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
19 Feb 97 11:31, quoting John Brawley to Dan Ceppa:
JB> There is no year-long set of moments { [Jan.1,Dec.31] } labelled "zero
JB> year."
JB> There is a no-width "zero _point_," which is not itself a 'block,'
JB> 'year,' or 'femtosecond,' and cannot be. To continue to maintain
JB> otherwise merely amplifies the ignorance and irrationality of the
JB> claimee.
Do I celebrate a birthday for my 6 mo. old grandchild? How many years
old is he, John?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:54
EID:7f56 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 3310199d
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 6d424527
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
20 Feb 97 08:36, quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes:
JB> Define "point."
JB> Define "line."
JB> See if you can define either one without reference to the other.
JB> Find your definitional effort in a 'standard math' text.
JB> When you can't, tell me _why_.
What about a point on a curve, Bait Boy?
Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
f(x,y) = 0 at which
delta f/delta x = delta f/delta y = 0
Is there a real tangent here? Why or why not?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:22:15
EID:f360 225752c0
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101a8c
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 4f2b631a
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
20 Feb 97 08:51, quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes:
JB>> John Brawley's crackpot phrasing:
JB>> "That distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become
JB>> one point."
MK>> A geometry question? If there is any distance between the
MK>> points, there are an infinite number of points lying on the line
MK>> between the two points, John.
JB> Topology question. Not strictly "geometry."
Topology? Did you sleep through limits, Bait Boy?
There's _always_ room for another point in MATHEMATICS, dufass.
JB> Spit it out, boys, if you know it, or admit I'm right that there are
JB> just _some_ concepts that don't _have_ "standard math" formatting.
Just what is your mathematical background, John?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:08:45
EID:1e00 22570900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f989d
-> On 21 Feb 97 11:41:48, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> John really doesn't have a clue, does he.
MK> Clues are, unfortunately, nonlocal to John.
DC> I just wonder what Hector would say about this.
MK> He's too busy laughing at Holysmoke to say much at the moment. :-)
I must imagine that it hurts for him to laugh, though, with
that bus still sitting on top of in in Hollywood.
... Support school prayer - the Creationists' only chance to pass science!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:10:20
EID:1c3c 22570940
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f98fc
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:38:23, John Brawley got back to ROBERT CURRY
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
RC> It is much easier to get lots of laughs from our Quantum Bait Boy
RC> when you don't take him at all seriously, isn't it?
JB> Interesting observation. Pointless for you, though.
Yes, Robert, you are 100 and 10 % on the mark!
... Remind me not to shoot outside corks with you!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:24:28
EID:32d2 22570b00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9c4c
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:53:25, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> 6 - 8 = -2
JB> [-3][-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
JB> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
DC> Try using your 'logic' with 6 - 6, John. The answer, according
DC> to what you typed above, is [+1]
JB> Good counter. I'll think about it.
Thank you.
And, that is very good move for you to do, John. Try it by
moving the '1' under the [5]. That makes _my_ problem work.
But, be careful, that now results in a wrong answer with _your_
original problem.
Keep up the good work about asking questions. Otherwise, you
may end up in Curry's class with Frederic Rice. And, we all
know how Robert frowns on bloodshed in his classroom.
BTW, just what blood type are you, JIC?
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:28:14
EID:32d2 22570b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9d2e
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:53:57, John Brawley got back to Mark Kimes
JB> (*grin*) How obvious can you _be_, Bud?
JB> There is no physical presence "in this echo."
JB> I am what I am.
So, you are either Yahweh or a somewhat more schooled
Popeye.
And, if it's not physical, why can I read the electrons
that you message generated on my crystal ball?
... Advanced magic is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:31:24
EID:32d2 22570be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9dec
-> On 20 Feb 97 05:01:36, John Brawley got back to Mark Kimes
JB> believe you think that lies and sophistry, not to mention character
JB> assassination, are effective means of argument. Repeatedly, I have
John, it the previous message to me you commented on that
you "cannot be known" as this was not a "real" way
of knowing anything. After all, it's only electrons
dancing around. It's not you. Therefore, there is
nothing to assassinate.
... Next time, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 02:00:12
EID:827e 22571000
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330fa4ac
-> On 20 Feb 97 18:48:34, Ken Young got back to Dave Hamilton
KY> I am a Patriot, but I have yet to get into the survivalist stuff..
KY> WHat to you constitutes a "cult church?"
"cult" and "church" are synonymous. Try understanding the
meanings, if you can.
... Drop that Bible and come out with your eyes open!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:19:31
EID:1c4a 22576a60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331043e3
-> On 17 Feb 97 10:15:00, Norman Solomon got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> you?) doesn't make them a 'race'. There are christians in every racial
LB> group, but christianity is a religion, not a race.
NS> Could you tell me what race black people are then?
Depending on how PC you want to be, they are Negroid, Black
or Native Africans.
NS> or jews perhaps?
Jewish is a religion. However, the majority of Jews are of
the Semitic race.
NS> The point I was trying to make to DW was, that to label someone with
a
NS> whole bunch of negatives just because they are a Christian, is wrong
NS> by any ethical standards.
How would you label a KKK member? How about a member of the
Nazi party?
... "Fires don't burn heretics. Xians do." Ric Carter
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:38:12
EID:c649 22576cc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104844
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:14:28, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> A serious question without the slightest touch of "other subjects"
JB> gets a flip answer for _what_ reason?
DC> David Worrell answered it quite adequately. In fact, it was
DC> right to to the most infinitesimal detail.
JB> More cognitive distortions? All or nothing thinking, in this case?
No, John. Just an accurate assessment of you, infinitively accurate.
JB> (*chuckle*) The idea that Worrell is 'right' about something is as
JB> ludicrous as the idea that a denigrated source can't possibly speak
a
JB> truth apart from the subject matter of his denigration.
Just because you think _you_ are right does not make it so, John.
JB> I suppose if David Koresh had said that grass was green, you'd be
JB> forced to think it was not, because a source _that_ wrong in other
No, John. However, based on the source of the information, I
would have to get a second opinion if I wasn't sure. Besides,
having lived in Montana, I know that grass is brown.
JB> I'll just not treat some of you guys as if you were sensible in areas
JB> apart from controversial issues. Is that the lesson I'm supposed to
JB> learn from you and Worrell?
No, John. What you have to learn if you are to be taken seriously
on any subject is not to be as ludicrous in trying to pawn
of your pet theory or what ever it is that you are calling it
this week.
JB> (Sorry; not!; I'd rather not descend to your abysmal level of
JB> prejudice.)
It's not predjudice, John, neither is it beyound your comprehension.
BTW, the word you used doesn't mean what you think it means. I
do think you wanted to write 'abyssal'. No charge for the
English lesson. If you need more help, the "English Major"
may not charge you if you buy enough of his records.
... It is difficult to prophesize, especially about the future.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:43:01
EID:ce8d 22576d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104965
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:23:05, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Your right. I should have said the the Moon is made out of
DC> Green Cheese -OR- Blue Cheese to keep your analogy intact.
JB> That's better. Ludicrous, but better.
IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
JB> You have no logical argument from experimental evidence, that the
JB> Moon's made of cheese.
Of course not. It was meant as an analogy to your theory.
JB> I have a logical argument from experimental evidence, that the
JB> Universe is at least _dependently_ intelligent and 3D mirror-image
Publish it then, John. Let everyone see your logical argument.
Just make sure that it's in a peer-reviewed journal.
... "Your overconfidence is your weakness." - Luke
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:00:26
EID:32b7 22577000
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104d7a
-> On 19 Feb 97 06:31:23, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I've already given you comments on that. Numerous other
DC> posters have shown you that the math won't work with your
DC> presumptions.
JB> As, no doubt, you'd love to believe, and as, equally no doubt, you'd
JB> continue to believe no matter what....
There's nothing to believe, John, as it is a fact.
JB> paradigms, the discrete/real and the "mathematical"/continuous, in
the
JB> following short-form way:
JB> [-3] [-2] [-1] [+1] [+2] [+3]
JB> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
JB> -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
Your number line is fallacious. That too has been pointed
out to you.
JB> Confusing "math" (lower lines) with discrete units (complete years,
JB> minutes, infinitesimals, etc.; upper line) leads to the argument about
JB> which numbered year's Dec. 31st the "millennium party should be held."
Of course it does, as those that think the new millenium starts
with the year 2,000 are using the number line you are using.
JB> There is a no-width "zero _point_," which is not itself a 'block,'
JB> 'year,' or 'femtosecond,' and cannot be. To continue to maintain
The zeroth year exists and has to exist because of the numbering
system for dates has been split into BCE and CE countings. After
all, it's a mathematical thing.
... "What you call a refusal to answer was a refusal to respond" J Jones
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:04:30
EID:c3a1 22577080
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104e6e
-> On 21 Feb 97 04:31:42, Jan deBoer got back to Tom Huber
JD>Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it
[..]
Jd> And, if the book conatins so much "allegation", where are the libel
Jd> and defamation lawsuits from the church leaders?
Hiding out with the Plates?
... The inspiration in the Bible depends on the ignorance of the reader.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:08:44
EID:f66e 22577100
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104f6c
-> On 20 Feb 97 20:08:58, Ken Young got back to Roger Hunter
KY> CHristians believe in a god. This clearly is saying that anyone that
KY> believes in a god is a dogmatic moron.
RH> Sounds reasonable to me. What's the problem??
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there.
Of course it's arrogant. But, that's just another trait of
being an xian.
KY> But, if you really want to be stupid, and
KY> refuse to even accept the possibility of a god, go right ahead.
Gee, Kenny, now tell us why you don't believe in Shiva. He's
really pissed at you for ignoring him.
... "God has no religion" -- Mahatma Gandhi
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: God Dan
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:10:52
EID:def1 22577140
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104fec
-> On 20 Feb 97 18:55:26, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> So, just what did P&G do that made you so fucking mad at them?
KY> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
IOW, they are doing everything right, especially in regard
to your first complaint.
... Commandment 0: You must lie for your god and his religion
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:15:08
EID:77f7 225771e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331050ec
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:12:36, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> churches here in SC. One was a member, a deacon, and the other was the
JB> pastor.
DC> have to resort to violence to put their competitors out of business.
JB> What competitors? These were their own churches they torched.
I gathered that on the follow-up messages. However, either
way it's a hoot!
"Well, the weekly take is down. Looks like I should firebomb
this place to get things holy-rollering again."
... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:17:50
EID:77f7 22577220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310518e
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:12:36, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
... >>> Why is it that the best taglines are just a little too lo
It's because you put in those three chevrons, sargeant dear.
... >666: PFC of the Beast
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:20:51
EID:785f 22577280
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105243
-> On 19 Feb 97 06:06:50, John Brawley got back to Katherine Wintersnight
KW> the whole thing. The origin lines are funny, but the bee stung
KW> howling from you is even funnier. And if I hadn't decided that any
JB> (*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
I know, I know... Hire a second crew for the Pie Factory.
This overtime in the bakery is killing me!
... Nothing wrong with him than an autopsy wouldn't fix.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: The Index revived
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:25:39
EID:0c26 22577320
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105363
-> On 21 Feb 97 04:01:10, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> happened far too often that parts of books and even whole books
DC> get "lost" in "mysterious" ways.
Jd> Since they have the right to remove printed materials from public
Jd> libraries, I think we should then conversely have the right to go into
Jd> their churches and destroy printed material we don't like.
That's when they fall back on the secular laws against that. They
only see those laws as applicable for themselves, especially when
they are removing materials that _they_ deem "evil" and call upon
the "greater god" as justification.
... I'm in the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:28:40
EID:3410 22577380
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105418
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:13:38, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> that doesn't!)
JB>
JB> And even more missing mail. :( No Fido here for 3 days now. I'm hoping
It's been up and down but generally steady here, though I did
have one very slow day.
JB> to be able to get this up on Dave Hamilton's board. Starting to look
JB> like Rod Swift's mail, isn't it?
Not that bad. Besides, Rod is doing a marvelous, simply
marvelous job standing in as a replacement for Al Schroeder!
... "Father, they DO know what they're doing!" Jesus in Riverworld
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:32:43
EID:6bfe 22577400
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310550b
-> On 21 Feb 97 03:23:51, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
Jd> So, you're _for_ black people, but against black skin?
KY> I already said that there is a difference. WHy should I hate anything
KY> that one cannot help?
DC> Your words do you in, yet again. Keep up the good work, bigot.
MB> I have a feeling that on this one he's consistent. I'd
MB> be willing to bet that he also thinks that blacks are okay,
MB> so long as they don't "act black."
...and ride in the back of the bus.
I don't think he has a clue as to how the bigotry he has
oozes out of virtually every one of his posts.
... +Origin: GIARDIA NETWORK: Beaver fever for Fundies!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: helpless moron from oz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:56:58
EID:5fbf 22575f00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3310753f
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced1
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, ROBERT CURRY said this about helpless moron
from oz
G'day ROBERT,
[DNA]
LA>> Highly complex codes don't arise by themselves
RC> No, that requires time and Natural Selection. Are you also under the
RC> delusion that life just sprang up from nowhere a week ago Tuesday?
Aren't they reborn at least once a week?
RC> I trust you're not indicative of Australians in general. No country
RC> could *possibly* be so characteristically stupid and survive.
Yes, it's an uphill battle. ;-) I don't want anything to do with the
clown. We have our fair share of fundies over here and although it's not
quite as bad as the US (from my perspective at least), it certainly seems
to be getting there. :-(
Talking to a fella at work the other day who drinks and cavorts around the
countryside (yes, he's a christian), and he has a real hatred for gays
saying that he's sick of having gay rights shoved down his throat. (You
may know of the gay mardi-gras we have over here every year). When I
mentioned I was tired of having seemingly endless televangilists spreading
the good word and expecting me to believe such a chunk of shit he became
quite irate and proceeded to swear profusely, after which he packed up his
bat and ball and left. Funny the way christians behave at times.
/\\ark...
... "The Book of Mormon is chloroform in print" - Mark Twain
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:05:05
EID:e2ea 225758a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331078c1
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3307958a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Why do you NEED
to be saved?
[Evolution]
DW>> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
Sounds a damn sight better than your theory. I can see it now, your god
dressed up in David Copperfield apparel waving a large stick over a top-
hat and saying to no-one in particular. "And now for my next trick."
/\\ark...
... might as well kill all Christians, as they will go to Heaven.Ken Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:11:54
EID:1e76 22575960
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107a5a
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3307966e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Exemplifying examples
RS>> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
KY> The choice I made was to go by what I naturally am, and not rebel
KY> against my nature.
An idiot.
KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the key. See,
KY> while some are conscience doing it, gays may subconsciously make the
KY> choice to be homosexual. We make choices all the time without
KY> realizing it. And throughout your life, what happens to you, will also
KY> be a big factor in the what choices you make.
ROTFL!!!!
<5 minutes later and still laughing maniacally> Fuck he cracks me up. :-)
Oh dear. This has gotta be kept for the archives! ;-)
/\\ark...
... "gays may subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual" - Ken Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:14:18
EID:c3bb 225759c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107aea
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330798ae
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Driving Mr. Daisy
AH>> When blacks, women, Jews, gays, and other such
AH>> inferiors, heathens and deviants were kept in their
AH>> proper place, I suppose.
KY> Sorry to see that you consider them as inferiors. Perhaps you should
KY> work on being more tolerant of others. :)
Evil is a hill. We stand on ours, speak about others. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:20:42
EID:dec9 22575a80
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107c6a
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3309283a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Cracker Barrel
boycott
JH>> Jesus would be real impressed by his casual disinterest in
JH>> injustice.
JH>>
JH>> "Feed the hungry? Care for the sick and homeless? Not me,
JH>> I'm too busy following Jesus..."
KY> Now, let's see.. When did I say I wouldn't help the needy?
When was the last time you went out of your way to feed and clothe a
destitute? Yesterday? Last week? Last year? Never? Or do you "help" by
tossing a few dollars in the plate?
/\\ark...
... Nine times out of ten the man who declares that God is tender to the
sparrow that falls is not the man to buy a winter's coal for a poor widow.
- Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:28:02
EID:6be7 22575b80
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107e22
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330a5dfc
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Driving Mr. Daisy
KY>> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things
KY>> were a lot better.
ss>> When was that, oh great and knowledgeable history buff?
FR>> Oh, you know... when innocent women were being burned,
FR>> Jews were being burned and disemboweled, niggers knew
FR>> their place, faggets were safely in the closet, girls
FR>> never had abortions -- they just went away to visit a
FR>> sick Aunt for a year.
KY> Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation?
You don't?
KY> And, at least there were less abortions, back then.
I trust you can provide evidence for this?
/\\ark...
... I am a hisotry of buff of sorts -- Ken `Hunh?' Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: Ken Young's #1 fan (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:30:06
EID:0cc3 22575bc0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107e9e
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330b888c
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Cracker Barrel
boycott
RS>> Rod "Your bible clearly supports same-gender relationships." Swift
:)
KY> Maybe that should be Rod "I am obsessed with sexuality." Swift,
KY> instead, if you actually got homosexuality out of those scriptures.
KY> ALways must read things into something, that just isn't there, huh?
ROTFLMAO!!! You do the same thing, Jelly.
/\\ark...
... Ignorance is all that saves some people: if they knew more they would
do worse. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: Trick or Treat (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 07:22:01
EID:b42c 22573ac0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f727f118
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e4d0e
On (22 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Richard Smith...
-> On 16 Feb 97 19:25:30, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DW> The Klan is just as Christian as you are, bozo.
ky> When one goes against basic beliefs of Christianity,
ky> they are not a Christian.
RS> But you said in an earlier post that Xtians who
RS> sodomize small boys are still Xtian:
DC> Like all fundys, he forgets what he posts.
RS> `How dare you damned atheists archive my writings!!!'
DC> Yes, it's just sooooo hateful, especially when they have
DC> to eat their own words.
My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
post (presumably taunting all us nasty heathens) that we
couldn't create even one atom. Then, only a couple of days
later, he said that Man (that's ALL OF US, folks) created
disease.
Now, just how can we create all those microorganisms without
even creating one little itty-bitty atom? Quite a trick.
That makes us even better than his gawd.
... Burro: an ass. Burrow: a hole in the ground. Know the difference.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 08:02:19
EID:2038 22574040
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c1e70a78
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1a9481e2
On (22 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Fredric Rice...
EM> Fredric Rice sD "Hi, s!" Ė David Worrell, ĖHs:
DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
DR> by Dr. Sagan.
dw> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have a copy.
FR> With another click you could have bought _ME_ a copy!
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
science-illiterati possess.
... A man drove me to drink. I never properly thanked him.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Feb 97 08:12:26
EID:204f 22574180
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 54565017
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 09260c53
On (21 Feb 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Dan Ceppa...
KW> DC>-> On 16 Feb 97 02:02:28, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
KW> DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
KW> DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
KW> DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
And without it, I'd be in the soup.
... Hit him over the head with a clue x 4.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: It'll be apparent
|Date: 23 Feb 97 09:59:20
EID:7297 22574f60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 cb2d147d
Dan Ceppa sD "Hi, s!" Ė Rod Swift, ĖHs:
DC> I'll have to start taping them and the _Simpsons_ Got a
DC> bunch of new tapes to fill up.
___ _____
.'/,-Y" "~-.
l.Y ^.
/\ _\_ ßŪßßßßÜ ÜßßßßÜ Ū Ū Ū
i ___/" "\ Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū
: /" "\ o ! Ū Ū Ū Ū ŪßßßßŪ Ū
l ] o !__./ Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū ß
\ _ _ \.___./ ÜŪÜÜÜÜß ßÜÜÜÜß Ū Ū Ü
X \/ \ ___./
: \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. .
` Z,-- / ` .
\__. ( / _____) .
\ /-----~~" ) .....................
Y \ /
= "x______.^
= \
j Y
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:08:03
EID:186d 22575100
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 32e9e585
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 759d03a6
Martin Goldberg sD "Hi, s!" Ė Mark Kimes, ĖHs:
MG> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or two ago.
MG> The people in the lab hadn't believed me. One good thing about the
MG> guy...he's gawddamned consistant.
And, pray tell, what would be the address of that choice site?
thancksz!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:13:08
EID:3354 225751a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 335c84cb
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f5b6f
Steve Quarrella sD "Hi, s!" Ė David Worrell, ĖHs:
DW> Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's gospel program.
DW> It seems many viewers were disturbed by his "metal" tribute album.
SQ> Isn't that great? We heard his version of "Smoke on the Water" the
SQ> other night, and just about died. Maybe Pat is finally having a few
SQ> cups of Reality House brand coffee.
A certain spend-happy female I know bought the fucking thing.
It turned out to be kind of interesting. For the first time, I could
clearly hear every word of the lyrics in "No More Mr. Nice Guy."
Now if he'd just do a version of that Hendrix tune, "Scuse me, while
I kiss this guy" so I could see how the rest of the song goes.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:20:03
EID:2d8c 22575280
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a2a3415c
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 c1e70a78
Marilyn Burge sD "Hi, s!" Ė Ed Mills, ĖHs:
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
MB> It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
MB> science-illiterati possess.
I wonder where I heard it was a novel...
edweird
... Green Eggs and Hamlet: "Alas, poor Sam-I-am, a man of infinite jest!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:00:04
EID:2038 22575800
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 26c54f6e
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 a2a3415c
On (23 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Marilyn Burge...
EM> Marilyn Burge sD "Hi, s!" Ė Ed Mills, ĖHs:
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
MB> It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
MB> science-illiterati possess.
EM> I wonder where I heard it was a novel...
Dunno.
... Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:08:22
EID:717c 22564100
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 604c14c5
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced4
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> therefore we'll prevent you from finding out so's you can do it
RC> JB>> yourself."
RC> So your complaint-filled perception of the above differs from my
RC> generously providing (gratis) references to definitive mathematical
RC> works on infinitesimal analysis. Now my question for you is:
RC> Why haven't you availed yourself of the use of these works?
JB> No round TUIT yet.
RC> Don't let that stop you from babbling your persistent stream of
RC> errant nonsense in the meantime, though. We couldn't have you depart
RC> from your characteristic modus operandi in favor of shutting up
RC> until you've learned some of the basics, first, could we? It just
RC> wouldn't be you, John.
Nor would it be "American." We're free, Robert, to express ourselves
whether we're right, wrong, stupid, intelligent, ignorant, wise,
whatever. We conflict because a) we're both egotistical in our ways,
and b) we're discussing things in which your formal expertise supersedes
mine. But to "shut up?" For what? I don't see the Moderator telling
me to "shut up" until such-and-so condition is met.
And please don't congratulate yourself _too_ much on providing
references for free, "(gratis)." In most of the argument echoes I
inhabit, that is simply _expected_. I, too, have provided my sources,
at least one of which you _said_ you would check out.
Have you? I have seen not a whisper yet that you have.
JB> Never mind, Robert.
RC> No danger of that.
RC> You may consider yourself dismissed.
Thank you.
JB> I've asked you for 'standard math' ways to speak about two
JB> different concepts
RC> You have yet to express any cogent concepts, John. A few words that
RC> have been strung together meaninglessly do not a concept make.
You don't know, or math doesn't have the symbols to express the thought,
then, which means in the latter case that I was right in my original
claim, that some concepts pertinent to my geo-topological efforts do not
have equivalent math phrasings.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Faith is not an excuse for ignorance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:17:00
EID:f870 22564220
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 53e257c4
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced5
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> If it has a standard math explanation, _present_it_,
RC> Or you will do what? Pout? Hold your breath?
JB> Default to concluding you don't have it.
RC> Oh, please feel free to come to whatever mistaken conclusions suit
RC> your rather illogical temperment. Like the wolf in one of Aesop's
RC> fables, when you can't reach the grapes, you "default to concluding"
RC> that they must be sour.
UN-like the Fox (not a wolf) and the Grapes, I have no overweening
_desire_ for the grapes, like the Fox did. You suggest I learn the
basics that lead to me finding something that does not exist. Your
comparison is invalid; that is NOT the Fox-and-the-Grapes story's moral.
JB> Since it came from the Berlinski, have _you_ gotten the book
JB> and made any decision about his knowledge?
RC> Yes. He didn't know how to spell Leibniz. A few other minor errors
Well, finally....
RC> stand out after a cursory scanning. His style is atrocious, and I
His style is not "atrocious," it is almost _impenetrable_! (We
definitely agree here.)
RC> see how you could easily be misled by it (for instance, he seems
Misled by it? Haw! I spent WAY too much reading time trying to ignore
it --get _around_ it and pick out the pertinent explanations about the
calculus (which is why I bought it in the first place).
RC> insistent on denying that there are infinite or infinitesimal numbers
RC> in one place, while actually referring to works that define exactly
RC> those numbers elsewhere -- very sloppy). All in all, it is a poorly
Inconsistent, anyway, but I note you don't say he's exactly _wrong_ in
either case.... You think so?
RC> written work. All the knowledge in the world won't change THAT.
RC> I suggest you broaden your mathematical reading base *considerably*
This is fine, but please return to the original reason for you examining
the book: does he qualify as an 'authority' on the subject he's
addressing, or not? That is, is he as -wrong- as you thought he was,
from the fact that _I_ was using him as reference, or is he basically
correct, but just a terrible writer?
IYOW, would reading his exposition on what the calculus is and does
_worsen_ the understanding of someone newly trying to grasp what it is
and does? Does he make any fundamental _mistakes_ about the calculus?
RC> However, back to the issue of your claim about Leibniz, the main
RC> problem here is with YOU, John:
RC> Where did you get the preposterous notion that Leibniz thought of
RC> infinitesimals as discrete rather than continuous?
You mean, you got the Berlinski, read some, and _didn't_ read the pages
that started the whole reason for arguing about the Berlinski? Jeez,
Robert.... It was the Berlinski that led me to believe that. You have
to be led by the _nose_ through the text?
RC> When I asked you before, you were quick to blame Berlinski for that
RC> in addition to blaming him for your misspelling of Leibniz's name.
RC> Can't take responsibility for your own mistakes, can you?
You can't _possibly_ be saying Berlinski does NOT misspell Leibniz
"Leibnitz," can you? DID you read the damn thing, or didn't you?
How much subtle lying _do_ you do?
Neither of them were _my_ mistakes, Robert, as should be clear to you
now after reading the Berlinski book, wherein _both_ "mistakes" appear.
How dense -can- you be? DID you read it, at _least_ to find the two
things in it you've been blaming _me_ for? Yes? No? What do I have to
do, Robbie-boy? _scan_in_ the damn text itself?
Accuse me of egotistical refusal to back away from a wrong point all you
like. It's obvious you don't expect others to be able to do what you
cannot.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "You are trapped in that bright moment where you learned your doom."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: death
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:38:53
EID:0810 225644c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 27d08677
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced6
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> So where do you keep your prize-winning overinflated ego?
JB> I don't have one to keep.
RC> Ah, so it's merely an artful simulation? Two prizes, then!
RC> Bravo on the effective job you have done in thoroughly convincing
RC> so many different people in their various far-flung locales that
RC> your nonexistent ego is anything but.
"Thank you." {;-)
It's a side-effect, which has been with me all my life.
It doesn't seem to matter _what_ I do or how I do it; sooner or later
someone gets incensed and starts calling me egotistical. I'm used to it
after almost forty years of it. It 'just happens,' and after that
little super-deflating experience in Korea, I no longer bother myself
about it.
JB> One must know oneself pretty deeply before one can tell the
JB> difference between overinflated ego and hard-won self-knowledge
JB> in others. You're not seeing excessive ego in my text;
RC> So when you assert that if YOU are full of shit, it's only because
RC> somebody ELSE is full of shit (blaming Berlinski, for instance),
RC> what exactly is one seeing there in your text, John?
When I clearly _got_ the mis-spell _from_ Berlinski, and _you_ got the
Berlinski and _confirm_ that spelling's in there, and when the Berlinski
came up in the first place because I was claiming I got something from
the reading about math (which _you_ repeatedly and nastily suggested I
better do if I wanted to speak with *&%__you__%&* ("o, wise and superior
mathematical expert")), and when subsequently to these truths you
continue to claim all the mistakes were solely _mine_, well, Robert, I
wonder about your thinking ability.
If __I__ said something that was full of shit, and __you__ challenge me
on it, and I tell you where I read it, and you go out and find that yes,
indeed, both "errors" are definitely in the book that I read, then what-
the-hell do you _think_ was the case? I blamed Berlinski 'cause they
were obviously Berlinski's mistakes. I surely didn't _create_ the
mistakes out of thin air. Right? You DID read the Berlinski, didn't
you?
True egomaniacs assert they create their knowledge; that is _they_,
themselves, that are inspired and wise. People of lesser ego admit that
practically _everything_ they know came from somewhere else; that they
learned what they know, for good or ill, right or wrong, from others who
came before them. There's nothing egotistical about blaming a wrong
perception on its source, when that source is obviously not yourself.
JB> you're seeing relaxed self-expression. There is a difference.
RC> Don't tell me -- it's one of those infinitesimal differences, right?
In this case, the difference is far from infinitesimal. It does seem,
however, to be next to undetectable by certain parties in this echo.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Speed doesn't kill; running into slow things kills.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:56:23
EID:43e9 22564700
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 36dcd876
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89554657
On 21 Feb 97, Laurie Appleton wrote:
LA> Hi John,
LA> JB>(*sigh*) "Do not go to the elves with questions, for they will say
LA> both JB>'no' and 'yes.'"
LA> Is 'elves' an alternative name for evolutionist then?
In this case it's in reference to a pompous methematics type, in whose
message both 'no' and 'yes' appeared in comment on a subject we were
discussing.
LA> "Paleontologist (and evolutionary biologists in
LA> general) are famous for their facility in devising plausible
LA> stories; but they often forget that plausible stories need
LA> not be true."
LA> (Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology,
LA> Harvard University), Dr David M.Raup (Curator of Geology,
LA> Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago), J.John Sepkoski,
LA> Jr, (Department of Geological Sciences, University of
LA> Rochester, New York), Thomas J.M.Schopf (Department of
LA> Geolphysical Sciences, University of Chicago), and Daniel
LA> S.Simberloff (Department of Biology, Florida State
LA> University, Tallahassee), "The shape of evolution: a
LA> comparison of real and random clades". Paleobiology,
LA> vol.3(1), 1977, pp.34-35.)
********
(Are we in Holy_Smoke still? Yes?) Goodie:
Laurie, blow it out your lying,
Bible-Fundie, Sophist-Creationistic ASS.
I've seen FAR too much of your spamming out-of-context quote-posts over
the years now, to have any reason to be polite to you where I don't have
to be.
You are a liar, a science-hating fact-distorter, and a partial
abomination in the Sight of God. Your self-deluded Cretinist output is
enormous, considering the miniscule knowledge and independent thinking
ability of the mind it comes from.
No one disputes the accuracy of your quotes now (you learned _real_
quick that although lies could serve you, _baldfaced_ lies that could be
easily checked would not). But your distortions by means of out-of-
context quoting are both legendary and utterly reprehensible.
I am only mildly surprised that God has not done something about your
often unbelievably twisted understanding of matters scientific, or about
you freely Lying to many, many people --I suspect there's no room left
for Him in that overpressurized, dense and monomaniacal brain of yours.
Suffice it to say that while I may be polite to you in other echoes
where it's required, I have precious little desire to talk to you at all
in echoes where I may be free to express my less civilized thoughts
about you, your insane compatriots, or your completely unevidenced,
balderdashed-Bible-based False Belief System and its DIS-educating
effects on the people and the children of this or any Nation.
You are awfully, terribly wrong about evolution, Laurie, but I'm pretty
sure by now that you will never realize it, and are incapable of
realizing it.
May God forgive you and protect you from the wrath He vents on all
liars, because you, at least, "lie for the Lord of Hosts" rather than
for the Lord of the Flies.
[civilization mode back to ON]
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Mysticism: Music by God; Lyrics by anonymous, for solo performance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:18:50
EID:fff3 22564a40
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 8880cbcc
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330c5443
On 20 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 18 Feb 97 08:06:18, John Brawley got back to Marilyn Burge
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
JB> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
DC> You missed my response to Marilyn. It's actually in
(I did? I'm sorry. I'd have liked to have seen it.
Freeman Dyson has a book: _Infinite_in_ALL_Directions_
[emphasis mine --jb]. It's not much about math, tho'.
DC> three directions. And, after reading Curry's response,
DC> descrete in at least 2 of those directions. IOW, I
DC> suspect that there are an infinite number of "smallest
DC> non-zero numbers" depending on how the number sets are
DC> defined.
DC> Think about it.
I have, and still do. What it boils down to is the (scientifically)
unresolved question, "is reality discrete, continuous, or some as-yet
unrevealed combination of both?" (And its unspoken corollary, "will
_science_ ever be able to tell which?")
(IOW, I'm uninterested in what "math" does with these ideas; I am only
interested in what "reality" --"that which is"-- does with them.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Ask every question. Question every answer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:25:09
EID:d968 22564b20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 edea7354
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330c5b0b
On 20 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 17 Feb 97 06:59:33, John Brawley got back to Fredric Rice
JB> Be a little more critically-minded. If Laurie Appleton said that
JB> grass was green, you would deny it _because_ of the source? I don't
DC> However, he would check out the real evidence quite closely
DC> before agreeing with it.
Yup. But he doesn't do that with me.... Wonder why? (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Bother," said Pooh as he started to install Windows.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:25:49
EID:1025 22564b20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5aba18ad
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1995cf28
On 20 Feb 97, Fredric Rice wrote:
jb> Uh.... Mine -was- a serious question....
FR> Due to your idiotic occultic superstitions, anything you say can't be
FR> taken seriously. Sorry. Hell, I might as well call you Bill Wolff
FR> since there seems to be not an iota of difference between you two.
jb> Broad brush you paint with, eh?
FR> Whatever you do, _DON'T_ read Skeptical Inquirer, the Jan/Feb 1997
FR> issue!
I'd rather. I dropped my subscription in 1993 or 4, 'cause it cost too
much for me then, and I miss it. Hard to find elsewhere, too.
(Have they got a _web_site??? Maybe I can read it there.
You know a URL for SkepInq?)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... And God said: E = «mvż - Zeż/r ...and there *WAS* light!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BLOCKHEAD RITUALS
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:18:56
EID:898c 22565240
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a4306aa5
On 19 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Roger Hunter <=-
RC> Why are you wasting your time with Brawley when it comes to anything
RC> that touches upon his pet dogmas? I know that it's your time to waste,
RC> of course, but I'm just curious to know what if anything it does for
RC> you to beat your head against the brick wall of his ignorant egotism.
RH> It's because I assume that there is an intelligent human being on
RH> the other end of the modem who is suffering from a misconception
RH> which can be cleared up by a sufficiently clear explanation. It
RH> doesn't seem to work with John. This raises two possibilities;
RH> 1) My explanations are not clear
RH> 2) John is impossible to convince
RH> I have assumed 1) so far, but I'm starting to lean toward 2).
The fallacy of the excluded middle? Who'd have thought _you_ could fall
for _that_?
It's like creationists hollering 'there are only TWO possible scenarios:
Godless evolution and FIAT Creation!' (There is a third, of course,
called 'theistic evolution,' which they hate, if anything, more than
they hate "Godless evolution"; it removes their debate weapon,
"Godlessness" or anti-God-ism.)
In the case of 'my' preference for believing the universe to be
intelligent and perhaps self-aware, there are three possible
explanations: 1) You're not clear, presenting your antithesis, 2) I am
impossible to convince, and 3) it might actually be so.
This is related to the impossibility of arguing with _either_
Fundamentalistically-minded BibleThumpers (active God-believers) or
Fundamentalistically-minded AntiTheists (active God-DISbelievers,
erroneously calling themselves "atheists"). Neither position is
logically supportable, yet holders of both positions argue interminably.
I long since decided that there was, or was NOT, strictly scientific
evidence interpretable as supportive of one or the other position, and
my studies indicate the evidence is on the side of an 'intelligent
Universe.' I can now even logically "prove," from QM and nonlocality,
that the Universe _must_ be at least DEpendently intelligent, if we are
in it and are ourselves intelligent.
"Proving" whether or not it is _INdependently_ intelligent, however, is
quite a different animal.
In the main, though, Fundies accuse me of being antitheist, and atheists
accuse me of being Fundie, which I suppose is only logical of them: if I
ride the middle stream, and hence ain't one of them, I _must_ be the
other.
In truth, the practical difference between a Fundie mind-set and an
AntiTheist mind-set is apparently minimal; both think they "know"
something they cannot logically "know."
Agnosticism (or "pure" atheism) seems to be the only rational stance to
take, for most people. I, however, tend to move a little toward Theism,
for the above-mentioned reason(s).
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Reality-ometer: [......../] .....eeeee-YES!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:42:35
EID:f870 22565540
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5c0d7e74
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced7
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> Is that why you refuse?
RC> No. I refuse to satisfy your demands because you are a pompous twit.
(*guffaw!*)
RC> Besides, anyone with a bit of initiative could easily answer your
RC> question. Even you, theoretically speaking.
I had the answer. (From reading the Berlinski, actually.) But since
you appear to have such a need for super-precision, I thought it wise to
check with you to be sure that, if I used " [x,y] " or " (x,y) " in
some future post, it would not simply generate yet another irrelevant ad
hominem from you....
RC> So why are you making such pompous demands when you know that your
RC> egotistical behavior (or your amazingly successful emulation of same)
RC> is only going to result in people declining to cooperate with you?
RC> Think about it.
No, _you_ think about it. I don't need your _cooperation_, I'm simply
trying to put together a language you can be spoken to in without
raising brown in your eyes. It's like the common man approaching the
Priest; if you don't speak his exact language, he bites you. But if the
Priest doesn't say yea or nay when asked if this or that item of speech
is satisfactory to him, he can't _be_ spoken to. Perhaps that's your
goal anyway?
RC> JB>> _I_ suspect you can't do it, because no such definition
RC> JB>> exists in 'standard' math. Prove me wrong. Easy enough,
RC> JB>> if there is such a definition.
RC> If I were going to accede to your petulant demands,
RC> John, I'd have already produced a (very brief) definition
RC> by now. It's free for anyone else who requests it, but your
RC> egotistical attempts at manipulation will gain you nothing.
RC> Look it up. It's out there, and a reference librarian at
RC> any nearby university should be more than qualified to assist
RC> you in finding it if your own research skills are not up to
RC> the task.
Not if it ain't _there_, Robert. And given your ludicrous attitude, I'm
not going to waste search time on something, merely to entertain you
with thinking I'm on a wild goose chase.
RC> I never did, John. It is not my purpose in life to satisfy every
RC> last crackpot who insists that I prove him wrong. When you decide
RC> to support your own notions with something more substantial than
RC> your ridiculously ignorant blatherings, let me know. Until that
RC> time, I will continue to treat your petulant demands with contempt.
Then, since I can't support my notions with math language that does not
exist, I suppose this conversation is over.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Creationist graphs: Draw your curves first, then plot your data.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:20:07
EID:5794 22565a80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 91d69154
REPLY: 1:221/1503 330BE826
On 20 Feb 97, Ronald Vass wrote:
RV> scientists. > DG> Astrophysicist Paul Davies, in his 1984 book
RV> SUPERFORCE, stated, "The > DG> equations of physics have in them
RV> JP>.......a bunch of quotes......
RV> > DG> that I have for the existence of God.
RV> JP>This is the same sort of crap that Laurie Appleton comes up
RV> What this nut cases does , Like a 'Al S.' also did. Was NOT indicate
RV> that Paul Davies brings no mention that this is dealing with a
RV> Christian God. Paul D. assume's a god, but never mentions in any of
RV> his books dealing with this topic as to which god. It's left in the
The main conflict seems to arise when someone asks the question "do you
believe in God?" of someone else, and that someone else either says
"yes" or "no." Setting aside "no," (that conflict is obvious, and
different) the "yes" answer conveys no precise information. That is, by
answering the question with a 'yes,' the answerer does not inform the
questioner exactly what the answerer's concept of God _is_. In most
cases, I would suspect that the questioner goes away thinking, "good,
well, then, that answerer believes in the same concept of God as I do."
You point this out in essence above, and I give a personal example: If
asked by a Fundie, "John, do you believe in God?," I can easily answer
"yes." BUT if that Fundie knew my full _concept_ of God, he would most
definitely not agree with it, or think that I actually did believe in
God. For sure, it would not be the same concept he holds.
Likewise, I'm familiar with many of these "physicists writing about God"
books, and I have yet to find ONE that mentions any specific religion in
connection with the word "God" as used in the book in question.
Physics, and probably physicists in general, can approach claiming their
studies indicate to them _a_ God of some sort, but nothing in physics
leads any of them (that I've yet read) toward any specific pre-existing
religion's conceptualization of that Entity.
Nor has anything in physics led _me_ toward any pre-existing concept of
God. My "Quantum God Hypothesis" is pan-en-theistic, not "personalized"
in the sense that the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God is personalized. My
concept as easily forms itself to the Buddhist "Void," as to the AmerInd
"Great Mystery" or the J-C-M Biblical. It must, if correct, underlie
all previous formulations of concepts of "God" except those of the
uncritical, nonspecific Deists and the panentheists.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Real Programmers use "Copy Con filename.exe"
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:39:00
EID:ab06 225764e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Rice <=-
>DR> How does one write "Fule Injector" in Dutch?
JB> Fuel Injector.
Otch! Silly me. I should have known. :-)
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JOE SHEDLOCK
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!)
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:40:00
EID:0857 22576500
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Joe Shedlock to David Rice <=-
>DR> Ms Etheridge wants to "attract a man" just about as much
>DR> as Liar Appleton wants an education. :-)
JS> Correct. So, she is not a good role model in terms of
JS> dress and hair style for women wanting to attract
JS> heterosexual men.
Women for the most part do not wish to "attract... men."
I find Ms Etheridge very attractive. :-)
... "You missed Laurie's favorites: the dodo and the parrot..." -- Joe S.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: PAUL WALKER
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:42:00
EID:0c8f 22576540
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Paul Walker to David Rice <=-
>DR> That's true. Atheism = "without theism," i.e. a lack of
>DR> belief in the gods. No faith involved.
PW> Faith that they don't exist?
Is this your first attempt at trying to write a complete
sentence? If so, it has failed utterly.
Please make another attempt. Thank you.
... Creationists have yet to win any scientific debates. Interesting, eh?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:02:00
EID:a8ac 22583840
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Jim Staal <=-
>JS> Let's have the stats on how many of these mothers
>JS> and babies 'die on the table'. I have renewed
>JS> respect for the Catholics.
It is my understanding, possibly false, that when there
is a choice between the life of a girl / woman and the
life of the fetus or (in late pregnancy) infant, the life
of the mother is usually saved.
DH> So-called 'Partial-birth abortion' is performed ONLY
DH> to save the life of a mother. I'm not surprised that
DH> you would lack the courage to make a tough decision
DH> in the real world. People on paramedic teams and in
DH> ER's make such decisions every day in triage. They
DH> don't just sit back and wait for god's will to let
DH> everyone die.
If the patient is conscious and refuses life-saving
treatment (religious "reason" or otherwise), the EMT's
just wait for the person to pass out and then leap on
her or him. No god has ever saved the life of someone,
as far as anyone can tell.
DH> As for the rate of death of mothers during childbirth,
DH> I don't have the stats and I'm too lazy to go after
DH> them. In 10 years working in hospitals, including L & D
DH> pdepartments, I never saw one. Perhaps Dr. Goldberg could
DH> offer more current data.
It depends on the nation one looks at, and regional data
within a particular nation. In North America, more people
(girls and women) die from child birth than from receiving
abortions, though this is changing for the worse because
the satanic asshole Fundy Christians are making accessible
and affordable prenatal health care more difficult to
aquire.
Since January 1, 1997 until present (end of February), the
Fundamentalist Christians have caused the USA Government to
cease its funding of contraceptive distribution and
reproductive health care in "third-world" nations. The
directory of the fund says that this stoppage of services
will cause 1/4 million more abortions over a three-month
period than would have been performed if the services had
not been suspended. The Fundamentalists Christians'
"reason" for having these services suspended? To "prevent
abortions." And did this service provide abortions in the
first place? No.
From a message I saved from several lears ago:
Each year at least a half-million women worldwide die from
pregnancy-related causes. Fully 99% of these deaths occur
in the Third World, where complications arising from
pregnancy and illegal abortions are the leading killers of
women in their 20s and 30s. The World Health Organization
(WHO) officials caution that maternal deaths -- those
resulting directly or indirectly from pregnancy within 42
days of childbirth, induced abortion, or miscarriage --
may ACTUALLY BE TWICE THE ESTIMATED FIGURES. What is more,
for every woman who dies, many more suffer serious, often
long-term health problems. That bearing life brings death
to so many women is a distressing irony. It is even more
distressing given that family planning and preventive
medicine could substantially reduce these loses.
MATERNAL MORTALITY RATIOS:
DEATHS PER 100,000 STUDY REGION
COUNTRY LIVE BIRTHS AND YEAR
========================================================
Ethiopia 3,500 *(1) Urban, 1984
Bangledish 3,000 *(2) National, 1983
Senegal 700 *(1) Rural, 1983
India 400-500 *(2) National, 1984
Egypt 190 Rural, 1983-83
Romania 175 National, 1982
Mexico 103 " 1978
Thialand 81 " 1981
Chile 73 " 1980
United States 10 *(1) " 1979
Norway 2 " 1981
___-------------------------------------------------------
*(1) Unknown whether deaths from abortion included.
*(2) Deaths from abortions not included
Source: World Health Organization Maternal Mortality Rates
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:14:00
EID:a8ac 225839c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Judith Bandsma <=-
-=> About a message of Judith Bandsma to Dave Hamilton:
>>DH> same frequency per 1,000,000 births that was
>>DH> previously dealt with by simply crushing the baby's
>>DH> head into a long pulpy cylinder with forceps. It
>>DH> was over exactly this issue that Canadian Catholic
>JB> I think it was either 42 or 46 NATIONWIDE last year.
Conversely, 1,000 times that number have died on the
nation's freeways and highways last year; 2,380 times
that amount will die from tobacco-related illnesses.
I bet that many Fundamentalist Christian "pro-lifers" grow
and sell tobacco. I suspect a few of them own some stock
with automobile manufacturers.
>JB> But if he STILL (after seeing a picture...or so he
>JB> says) thinks there's room enough for a pair of
>JB> scissors and a vacuum machine, he needs more than
>JB> glasses.
DH> Exactly. What appalling ignorance. I tangled with a
DH> goofy lunatic over in CHURCH&STATE for a few months
DH> last year about this. It's a classic case of believing
DH> in an urban-myth-with-an-agenda and being willing to use
DH> part-truths and lies to enforce the belief. Sickening.
"Sickening" is mild compared to the mendacity. Wilfully-
ignorant, ill-informed, grossly uneducated pea-brains are
striving mightily to dictate national policy and law. This
spells disaster and ruin for any nation.
... "You missed Laurie's favorites: the dodo and the parrot..." -- Joe S.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GOD DAN
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:23:00
EID:6b67 22583ae0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting God Dan to Ken Young <=-
-> On 12 Feb 97 13:09:58, Ken Young got back to David Rice
Hi God! Wow. I'm awed.
>>>KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
>>>KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
>>>KY> Christianity?
>>DR> Ever hear of Bosnia? Ireland? Jonestown? Waco?
>KY> The Bosnia situation
>KY> WIth Jonestown,
>KY> And with Waco,
GD> I noticed that you conveniently skipped over the
GD> "minor" problem in Ireland, pink boy.
Gee, God, you're right---- I didn't notice he failed to
waffle on that one as well.
However, I =DID= notice that in each case he used the "Not
Real True Christian" lie to hand-wave the problems away.
... If we believe in gods, then we shall commit atrocities...
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:32:00
EID:d315 22583c00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Ken Young <=-
>KY> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals,
>KY> as there is a big difference.
And notice I said black skin, and not black people: as there
is a big difference.
MG> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your
MG> stinking god punish homosexuality without punishing
MG> homosexuals.
Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
Robertson.
... Prove you love Jesus: kill a doctor for Him.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER
|Sub: USA CompuCensor Law
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:35:00
EID:873b 22583c60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Terry Liberty-parker to All <=-
TL> It's Deja Vu!
Why, did you hallucinate more TANKS on the way?
... Mememto, terrigena. Mememto, vita brevis.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:46:00
EID:f667 225845c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Roger Hunter to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ken Young <=-
>>KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
>DC> Absolutely. Try me and show I'm wrong. You will lose,
>DC> pink boy.
RH> Ok, I'll bite. I can see a lesbian couple having babies as
RH> long as a sperm donor is available, but how can a male
RH> couple have a baby? Surrogate mothers are not part of the
RH> couple, after all.
Many homosexual couples are not the same gender.
... Science is to mysticism as a clove of garlic is to the vampire.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!)
|Date: 24 Feb 97 09:37:00
EID:41f2 22584ca0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Joe Shedlock <=-
The subject line still cracks me up.
>>DR> Ms Etheridge wants to "attract a man" just about
>>DR> as much as Liar Appleton wants an education. :-)
>JS> Correct. So, she is not a good role model in terms
>JS> of dress and hair style for women wanting to attract
>JS> heterosexual men.
RC> That's a non sequitur. Just because she isn't making
RC> an effort to attract heterosexual men does not mean
RC> she won't do so anyway. I find your attitude oddly
RC> naive.
I find Ms Etheridge attractive and physically desirable.
She's also short enough to fit in my boat's V-berth with
me--- another plus. :-) Though I admit that I am partial
to the photograph of her where she has long hair and is
wearing lace.
... I can't be a priest--- I don't like little boys
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LANGSTON GOLDFINCH
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 24 Feb 97 09:58:00
EID:a247 22584f40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Langston Goldfinch to Dan Ceppa <=-
>DC> Of people born in 1809, 100% who believed in god are dead!
LG> Dan, out of curiosity, knowing the nature of skeptics
LG> these days, has anyone asked for proof of this? I mean,
LG> did you actually track down ALL the people born that
LG> year and KNOW than they all are dead?
How many 188-year-olds do you met every day?
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:15:00
EID:b89a 225851e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to David Rice <=-
>DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
>DR>
>DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
>DR> by Dr. Sagan.
DW> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have a copy.
And you didn't share it with the rest of us?!?!? (i.e.
type it all in and post it.)
I finished the book Sunday afternoon. I got freaked out and
all goose-bumpily when I read the chapter on the succubi:
he described my ordeal exactly, even down to mentioning the
Goddess Lilith! I wish to Hell this book had been
around when I was 13 or 14 years old when I needed it.
When I was 13 or 14 years old, at night I would feel some
demon sitting on my chest, forcefully dragging "me" out of
my body and hauling "me," while I kicked and screamed, to
some unknown place. The first 30 or 40 times this occured
(over the span of many months), I always "woke up" before
we got to the destination. I avoided sleep as much as
possible during this time.
One night "I" was dragged to the destination and met a
Woman named "Lilly" who lived in a underground cave on
the edge of a ocean. After that I went willingly. :-)
It was quite a strange feeling reading my experiences
written by someone I've never met. I can see why Carl
Gustav Jung, et al, considered the possibility of a
"collective unconscious."
... Hail Stargoat! He could kick Yahweh's butt any day.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK KIMES
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:28:00
EID:bae2 22585380
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark Kimes to Martin Goldberg <=-
>>KY> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual
>>KY> orientation.
Golly. Seems to me that direct observation shows that one's
religious "choice" VASTLY depends upon what nation one is
born in, and the epoch one is born to.
>MG> Are you kidding us, Jelly? This logic simply does [not]
>MG> follow.
MK> "If one's religion is a choice, so is one's shoe size."
"His feet are too big for his shoes!" -- Foot Soldier
... Great head knowledge lets demon Pride and Satan get in. -- J. Staalin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK O'NEILL
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:31:00
EID:f1f2 225853e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark O'neill to Ken Young <=-
>>RH> Because Christians are harmful to others and are
>>RH> Christians by choice. Homosexuality is neither.
>KY> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
MO> While there may be violent gays/lesbians, I've yet
MO> to come across one. Gay people seem to be a lot more
MO> placid and "civilized" than your average christian.
MO> An interesting statistic would be a cross-section of
MO> both christians and gays to see which had the highest
MO> percentage of criminal convictions recorded against
MO> it. Go on. Tell me it'd be the homosexuals.
That's an interesting thought. Christianity taken as a
whole breeds violence; if holosexuals are less violence,
whether by nature or nurture, what happens to Christians
who are also homosexual? Does the Christianity-induced
violence get canceled out?
... Pass the Darwin fish and the Necronomicons! -- Glen Todd
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: paranoid?
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:13:53
EID:406d 2257b1a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 00614532
Richard Smith sD "Hi, s!" Ė Ed Mills, ĖHs:
RS> RS> I don't think anyone else here has been shot at for
RS> RS> expressing their views. You may have started a new club!
EM> Certainly the first of its kind on this side of the
EM> Mason-Dixon line. With a slight twist this time, though - the
EM> heretics are better armed than the crusaders. At least this
EM> particular one, who will be pleasantly surprised, next time,
EM> to have his/her .38's reciprocated with .44, .45 or 7.62X39
EM> party favors.
RS> When you care enough to send the very best . . .
RS> I don't suppose you have any Talons . . .
Subway ammo! No, I keep Glasers in the .45, they're just as nasty
and they don't ricochet or penetrate more than one layer of sheetrock.
Although a couple years ago, I had the opportunity to buy a box of
Talons. I kick myself now - they'd have made a cool knick-knack.
The .44 is loaded with Federal 240-grain truncated-nose JHP's, which
will stop any bipedal primate on earth, Kevlar or not. I've also got
some interesting handloads for that toy, swaged-full-jacket 240's with
the maximum charge for H4227 propellant. You never know when
a rhinoceros might get loose from the zoo and bust into your kitchen.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelie
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:44:24
EID:6f58 2257ad80
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 edd6d399
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6de6
Richard Smith sD "Hi, s!" Ė Marilyn Burge, ĖHs:
RS> ... If the cops throw a net over me, am I legally in seine?
I know it's declasse to respond to a tagline, but....
AAAAAAAAARRRGH!
That was some serious pun ishment.
edweird
... Shi'ite happens!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: We're winning, David. We win all the time and you can't sto
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:00:01
EID:9aa0 2257b000
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ad057b63
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1a8ac50f
Fredric Rice sD "Hi, s!" Ė David Ragland, ĖHs:
FR> And there's not a damn thing you can do to stop us. You'll abide by
FR> the laws or you may chose to be punished by violating those laws.
FR> Those are your choices and you and your death cult masters are going
FR> to be forced to comply to the dictates of sanity reguardless of how
FR> shrill and deadly tyranical you and your fellow deah cultists become.
Nice tirade!
I just hope corporate/political disregard for the environment doesn't
do us all in before we've had a chance to eradicate superstition.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: Psalm 22:17 / Luke 23:35
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:16:31
EID:8b55 2257b200
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a2d58101
Alan Hess sD "Hi, s!" Ė Jason Harmon, ĖHs:
LB>> PRAISE GOD !
AH> LB>>
LB>> PROPHECY: - People will stare at the Messiah.
LB>> They look and stare at Me.
AH> LB>>
LB>> FULFILLMENT: And the people stood looking on.
JH> This is the damnest lame "prophecy" I've ever heard, Lenny.
AH> People also stare at Dennis Rodman. Could he be .....?
Yeah, but the Madonna he schtupped was of somewhat questionable
virginity, methinks.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 21 Feb 97 18:16:20
EID:0356 22559200
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e2cc4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309af04
KY> mean you are sinless.
RS> I'm sinless, you gutless and worthless piece of trash. Care to
RS> try your salvation guilt trip on someone who has never been
RS> touched by the scourge of Christian faith, weakling?
I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
You, on the other hand, must be a very weak and insecure person. Otherwise,
you would not feel the need to attack soemthing you know nothing about.
You're sinless? You really need to do something about ego, if you think
you are perfect.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Feb 97 19:48:30
EID:1619 22559e00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e425e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309af80
KY> More in my direction, yes, but I go even further.
KY> Try people like Ken Hamblin, Chuck Harder, Greg Meadows, and others..
RS> Oh, your dribbling ecumenical shit makes us all want to chuck harder.
Actually, I am very much against ecumenicalism.
KY> While I think I meant it more about physical things, there
KY> is proof of God's existence- us.
RS> Oh, and please, describe how it is "proof".
I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God must be
here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the idea that
God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 21 Feb 97 19:51:50
EID:f1e4 22559e60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e4326
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309c664
KY> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the color of their
KY> skin, while gays do choose their sexual orientation.
RS> This is bullshit, Ken. Black people can bleach their skin and be
RS> non-black. In fact, white people can pigment their skin
RS> artificially too.
RS> We can choose our skin colour, now. Should we compel blacks to
RS> be white? If not, why not?
RS> You're compelling gay people to be straight, because you claim
RS> it's a choice.
RS> Skin colour can be a choice too, dear boy.
There is something to be said for sticking with what you naturally have.
Many people are black, that is how it was meant to be, and we are not change
that.
I would say that you should be what you were made to be. If you were created
white, stay that way. If you were made male, stay that way. And if you
were made heterosexual, as we all were, stay that way.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:17:42
EID:2c6e 22560a20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e8f86
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330bc917
NS> God created everything and it was good, then man
NS> fell and creation was
NS> corupted as result. By all means argue with Ken,
NS> but if you are going
NS> to say the bible says.......then get it right.
Jd> Sharks, botulism, vipers, poison ivy, thistles, nettles, cobras,
Jd> cholera, quicksand, deserts, scorpions, rats, roaches, mosquitos,
Jd> malaria, typhus, rabies, polio, pinworms, lice, fire ants, leeches,
Jd> sounds "good" to you?
All that was created in the beginning was good. We just ruined the world,
allowing the bad things to come to be.
Jd> As for man 'falling', you'd better read the story yourself.
Jd> It was entrapment pure and simple, since the victims didn't have the
Jd> knowledge to tell good from evil until AFTER they had consumed the
Jd> forbidden fruit.
They knew not to eat the forbidden fruit. That should have been enough.
Jd> Explain to us the absurdity of your god endowing man alone, of all the
Jd> creatures, with the power to reason and learn, and then forbidding him
Jd> to use it!
Oh, we are supposed to use reason, but there are still some things that
are not meant to be known.
Jd> Since your god is allpowerful allknowing, omipotent, he knows the
Jd> outcome of his creation before he even starts. Yet, it goes wrong!
Because He has given us free will, the choice to do right or wrong.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:25:48
EID:cfa0 22560b20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e916c
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33073384
KY> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
RS> Good. Then don't buttfuck, stupid Christian.
RS> Sheesh. What is it with you intellectual small-minds? If you
RS> are against abortion, don't have one. If you're against
RS> homosexuality, don't buttfuck. If you are against
RS> then don't join that religion.
We could go on from there.. If you are against guns, don't buy one. If
you are against militias, don't join one. If you are against Christianity,
don't go to church. If you are against drugs, don't use any. It goes both
ways.
KY> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the
KY> color of their skin, while gays do choose their sexual
KY> orientation.
RS> And I suppose you have the supporting evidence to this claim of a
RS> 100% choice *EVERY* time?
RS> Ah, I thought not, considering science disagrees strongly with
RS> you :)
Nope.. Some psychology and so called scientific THEORIES disagree with
me. No scientific fact disagrees with me at all.
KY> No, I am not saying that, but first you must show me an
KY> example of gays being discriminated against.
RS> Ah, that's easy. A man cannot do what a woman can -- marry a
RS> man. This is sex discrimination, primarily targetted at gay and
RS> lesbian individuals.
Well, why do gays want this right? Is it because they believe marriage
is important, or is because of the benefits?
But hey, you have as much right as I do.. A gay man can marry a gay woman
just as a heterosexual man can marry a heterosexual woman.. A heterosexual
male couldn't marry another heterosexual male, either. See? No discrimination
whatsoever. :)
RS> Remember Colorado Amendment 2?
AH, but shouldn't something become law, if that is what the majority of
the public truly wants?
KY> And anyway, the Constitution gives people the right of
KY> freedom of religion.
RS> Why should it, though?
A better question that perhaps you could help me with, is why shouldn't
it?
I would say freedom of religion is one of the most important religions there
is. One should be able to practice his religion, for the most part, any
way he wants.
Besides, it is probably the biggest reason why America got started as a
nation.
KY> Nowhere does it say anything about the
KY> freedom of sexual orientation.
RS> Why should it not, though? Sexual orientation is an innate and
RS> immutable characteristic.
We do not have the right to all choices. It isn't in the Constitution because
it isn't needed. If people didn't make a big deal about themselves being
gay, there wouldn't be any problem at all.
Now, that been said, I will say that the federal govt. has no right to put
in any anti-gay policies. What do I base that on? In the 10 Amendment
to the US Constitution, it basically says that if it isn't in the COnstitution,
it is reserved for the states to decide, so since sexual orientation is
not mentioned, the federal govt. should have no say so in the matter.
KY> Certainly not, but it must be remembered that it is freedom
KY> OF religion, not freedom FROM religion..
RS> Yes, you are quite right. The separation of church and state
RS> clause gives us freedom FROM religion in secular life :)
If you so choose, but not to the point where you take away someone else's
right to practice their religion the way they see fit.
KY> And if it is not a choice, why have some switched to being
KY> heterosexuals, later on?
RS> The latter part of the same pamphlet states why. You should read
RS> it. Things about pressure from religious and societal bigots,
RS> social and familial pressure, and other stuff that just screws up
RS> their mind, rather than allows them to accept their INNATE sexual
RS> orientation.
So, you don't believe anyone switched back, without outside pressure?
Funny, I always thought it was the liberal pressure that screwed people
up.
KY> You have yet to provide evidence. WHy is it a choice?
RS> Um, you're the one providing all the scientific evidence that
RS> it's a choice, 100% of the time.
RS> I'm simply dying to find out. I never chose, you see :)
Yes you did, you just don't realize it.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 22 Feb 97 01:45:56
EID:b019 22560da0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330e9624
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330981f4
RS> the holier-than-thou Christian set :)
DM> And, the limitations of your acquaintance to one side,
DM> gays, witches, heretics, atheists, and doctors _have_ been
DM> killed by persons claiming to be Christians. Most supposed
DM> themselves to be carrying out their god's will by so doing.
RS> And the bible even says that Ken has to kill a queer for Christ.
RS> If he doesn't then he's a salad-bar Christian.
Well, I am not sure it means that. There was a time when I thought that
was meant, but now, I tend to think that a spiritual death was meant.
Witches are another group that would fit this. But as I see it, if we kill
gays and witches, what chance do they really have of ever getting to Heaven,
then?
ANother theory some have is that that was in the past, as we now have the
grace of Christ.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:43:06
EID:e64b 22561d60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330eb19a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309a556
FR> "militia" is a _CHRISTIAN_ organization and has _nothing_
FR> to do with the description of the well regulated militias
RS> --------------
FR> of the United States as described in the Constitution.
RS> You're on the ball, Fred. I think there's something about the
RS> state governments setting up militias for the protection of their
RS> own interests from the tyranny of federalist forces used
RS> *DOMESTICALLY*.
RS> Nothing about vigilante militia though :)
There is nothing that says it is for the state govts. to set up.
And what vigilante militias are out there? If they were as violent and irrational
as some claim, there would be a lot more violence then there is. But rather,
most militias generally only would use violence as a last resort.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 03:52:50
EID:f287 22561e80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330eb3e2
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309c03c
RS> For the record, and Ken's edification, I never chose. Science
RS> also acknowledges that an overwhelming percentage of people
RS> (about 98%) never made a conscious choice of sexual orientation.
RS> And that's not just gay people. All people. :)
Science? Hmm.. You must have a weird definition of it..
And all that percentage would prove if accurate, would be how few gays there
are.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 22 Feb 97 04:03:44
EID:7e4f 22562060
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330eb670
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3309c442
MO> I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're a
MO> born fuckin' idiot.
MO> Gays no more "choose" their sexual orientation any
MO> more than anybody else.
RS> *clap!* Tell him, Mark!
Then, I take it, you deny that any homosexuals chose to be gay?
RS> (Using that keen intellect
MO> of yours you've most likely worked out by now that I am not gay).
RS> Challenge Ken to go to a gay bar with a gay friend :)
RS> Heterosexuals who don't fear who they are don't fear going to
RS> places where gay people go.
Actually, a female friend of mine who is a big supporter of gay rights,
is trying to get me to go to the local gay bar.
Now, I am not afraid of gays of course, but why should I go to one? What
would it prove?
RS> ... We prefer to call it sexual orientation. Preference implies
RS> a choice. Orientation implies an innate state of being... Just
RS> for your reference, of course... :)
Ugh.. That's right.. I have been using the politically correct term for
it.. I better change that at once! :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 23:13:12
EID:536e 2256b9a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fc3d8
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1991416e
Jd> Shouldn't you follow god's NATURAL atheist intention?
KY> Atheism is not, not having a religious belief, it is
KY> specifically not believing in God, IOW making a choice to not
KY> believe. A baby has not made that choice yet, so he cannot be
KY> an atheist.
FR> Everyone is born not believing in deity constructs,
FR> Ken. Occultism and superstitious fear and hatred must
FR> be ingrained in an individual before they start
FR> believing in deity constructs.
How do you know a baby doesn't have any belief in a god? Unless you have
spoken with a baby first hand, and asked, there is no way you could no.
Before someone believes in a diety, they must be full of hate? I am sure
many people, of many faiths besides even Christian ones, would strongly
disagree with that.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: You won't believe this quote
|Date: 22 Feb 97 23:27:28
EID:7b04 2256bb60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fc730
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 19907ef8
FR> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
FR> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
FR> loved. - Ken Young
FR> To all you Christians: He's one of yours.
Thank you for repeating my words of wisdom.. Just one tiny bit of my brilliance
that everyone should realize.
Just because someone will have an unfortunate eternity, does not mean you
love them any less.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:15:04
EID:9728 225701e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd258
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 17947a96
KY> to be against homosexuality? And notice, I say,
KY> homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
KY> difference.
mg> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
mg> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
FR> Answer the question, Jelly.
Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay, you cannot
be saved.
Now, the difference is simply the difference between the person and one's
actions. Just because I am against what a person does, does not mean I
am against that person.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:18:22
EID:9728 22570240
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd31e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1916498e
FR> ky> No, I think I would remember that.
FR> Amazing. No, idiot, you joined the Christanic death
FR> cult. That must mean you're in agreement with its
FR> history as well as its contemporary deadly ideologies, right?
Just because a few did those things, that claimed to be Christian, does
not mean that all of Christianity is evil.
FR> unleashed upon humanity. And you joined it.
FR> ky> So, would you be for all non-profit groups to lose that status?
FR> I would favor big businesses (like the death cult)
FR> paying their fair share of the tax burdon. Actual
FR> charity organizations (such as my own Skeptic Tank)
FR> should continue to be tax exempt simply because we're
FR> actually working for the benefit of humanity, not
FR> working to inflict further evil.
FR> Which you joined.
If we were to take away the non-profit status of all Christian groups, then
we would have to do the same to Pagan and atheist groups, as well..
And who is to say what is for the benefit of humanity, and what is for the
benefit of evil?
Seems to me if a group is mainly used as a forum to showcase its paranoia
over a specific belief system, it can't be doing much for humanity,
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:25:04
EID:2963 22570320
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd4b0
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32FBB3F4
KY> And of course, God has never put anyone there.. People do it to
KY> themselves..
JH> Riiiight. I refuse to go to hell. So, where do I go when I die?
JH> If I have a choice, I'll drop by heaven to torment you and your
JH> brethren.
By not choosing to be a Christian, you are choosing to be on the opposing
side. Thus, you have chosen a lovely view of fire and darkness for your
eternity.
I hope you do get saved and see me in Heaven. And I promise not to even
say "I told you so." :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: ...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:27:30
EID:8ade 22570360
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd542
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32FBB3F6
KY> well as his return was..
JH> Seeing is how Al seems to have left for a while, I'll pose this
JH> question to you. Was it necessary for salvation that Jesus died
JH> a violent death? Would all the sins be washed away if he died
JH> in his sleep?
Part of it, I believe, was that Christ was willing to pay such a high price
for our chance at salavation. And since being crucified as he was, was
much more of a sacrifice, I would say, yes, it needed to be that way.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:30:52
EID:2963 225703c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd60c
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32FBB3F7
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Richard Smith <=-
KY> And how can God not be loving when He came up with a way for us all
to
KY> have everlasting life in Heaven?
JH> A loving god wouldn't have created hell.
So, he should just let evil continue forever, and allow there to be a spiritual
anarchy?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:32:14
EID:f1ce 22570400
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd65e
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32FD05C3
Jd> Judaeo-Chrisitan society, and that as the number of Churches increase,
Jd> things seem to get worse?
KY>
KY> Well, complain to the churches, then, that they aren't preaching the
KY> gospel..
JH> And who let you decide what's gospel and what isn't? Are these people
JH> Not True Christians?
I am not to decide what the gospel is, but the Bible clearly states it.
KY> And it isn't so much that we live in a Judeo-Christian society, as I
KY> sure can't see it. Rather, it is that we are supposed to be in a
KY> Judeo-Christian society..
JH> And why are we "supposed to be in a Judeo-Christian society"?
JH> Just because you believe in some old book?
Because we are to follow our creator..
KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were a
KY> lot better.
JH> When exactly was this more of a Christian society? When we were
JH> killing witches? When we were accusing people of being "godless
JH> communists"? When children were made to pray in schools?
No to the first one, yes to the other two.. Just because some Christians
killed people that supposedly were witches (most weren't, as it was all
political), does not mean the whole Christian church would be for it.
I see nothing wrong with saying that some are "godless communists." If
they are, then they should be exposed.
And while now, I don't think we could ever go back to prayer in school,
there was a time when it was fine. Seemed to have worked fine. Kids were
a lot more educated back then. But since we took prayer out of the schools,
the students have been doing a lot worse.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:38:40
EID:6686 225704c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd7e0
REPLY: 1:3652/1 33001CA0
KY> Also, and this is not proof, but rather an interesting possibility,
KY> there have been many to say they heard torturous screams of agony when
KY> they dug too deep in the earth.. Now, if that is
KY> so, could it be Hell?
JH> And you're going to homeschool your children?!?! THIS is the reason
JH> why many people are on here, buddy. It is because of idiots like
JH> you who try to push their ignorance onto generation after generation
JH> of children. You are one fucked up individual, and I hope whatever
JH> children you have do not turn out like you.
Keep in mind, I made it very clear it was a POSSIBILITY, not a fact. Besides,
the sounds that some heard in the earth, was reported two different times
by the mainstream media.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Fundies
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:41:24
EID:cccf 22570520
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd884
REPLY: 1:3652/1 33016A74
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Jim Goodman <=-
KY> How about because we got here somehow? That would be a good start..
KY> And even if you can argue about evolution or
JH> something, there is still,
KY> how did time, mass, and everything else come to be? SOmething beyond
KY> the natural, must have created all of it.
JH> I may regret this later...but I'll grant you the above point.
JH> Now, what evidence do you have that shows YOUR god created everything
JH> and not, say, Vishnu?
Physically? None. I will admit that, but that doesn't mean something isn't
true.
Sometimes what you know on another level, spiritually for example, goes
way beyond any physical evidence.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: READING INCOMPREHENSION
|Date: 23 Feb 97 00:44:52
EID:1f53 22570580
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 330fd954
REPLY: 1:3652/1 33079653
JH> a) What evidence do you have that it was the Christian God?
JH> b) How do you know you can trust the Christian God?
JH> 3. If you don't know it was:
JH> a) Why did you say it was the Christian God?
JH> b) Do you always listen to the voices in your head?
More like what I feel in my heart, than what I hear in my head.
I know it is true, and that I can trust Jesus, because of spiritual experiences.
KY> First, society no longer accepts Christians in general.
JH> Uh-huh. You're just mad that society contains non-Christians who
JH> do evil stuff like run Proctor & Gamble and create leukemia.
The rumors about P&G being a front for Satanism likely are false. In fact,
pretty darn stupid. But, that does not mean everything they do is exactly
kosher, either.
ANd when I say we created diseases, I simply mean that by not following
biblical principles, we have set a path for ourselves, which includes disease.
KY> fail to accept even the possibility that there could be a place for
KY> those who followed the wrong path.
JH> Where would this "place" be?
Uh, does the word "Hell," ring a bell? :)
KY> Oh, but you don't truly take responsibility for your actions.. You
KY> And I do not blame God or Satan for our problems. In fact, I have
KY> been saying all along, that our problems, are the fault of mankind.
JH> Even though God knew we would do these things and created us
JH> anyway.
So we would have free will.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: ACLU News 01-30-97: Christian Coalition, Internet, And More
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:40:32
EID:0103 22571d00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33100280
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1995cf1f
FR> Tell me, won't you? Set me straight as to the facts, okay?
dw> You forgot to ask him about the TANKS.
FR> Oh! I forgot! Yes, I want to know about the TANKS
FR> with the FLAME THROWERS mounted on them.
Must be horrible only to be able to think about one topic at a time.
Want to know about them? I'd be more than happy to talk all about them.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: ACLU News 01-30-97: Chri
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:46:14
EID:f389 22571dc0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331003d6
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 30dcb100
RS> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?" Swift :)
TL> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
TL> I advocate consistency to the premis that no person may
TL> INITIATE physical force (or make a credible threat of
TL> such initiation) against the person or justly acquired
TL> possessions of another. I believe that everything in
TL> history, and current affairs, that looks like a free
TL> civilized society uses this premis; regardless of what
TL> else is included. To the extent that a society is
TL> consistent to this 'physical aggression truce' it is,
TL> in my opinion, a free civilized society.
TL> So is that a 'special interest group?' :)
One of the few that really matters. :)
Now, I am a few hairs away from being an actual Libertarian, but I'm not
too far off.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: USA CompuCensor Law
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:51:14
EID:1229 22571e60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33100502
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 17947a9d
> THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
FR> Did they use TANKS, dear?
A bit obsessive, aren't we? :) Oh, but that's right.. You have a hard
time moving onto something else..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Idiocy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 04:03:38
EID:edc8 22572060
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331007ea
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32FBB3F5
JH>
JH> If your going to keep quoting your bible like this, you're going to
JH> have to give us a reason to trust it. So, do you have any evidence
JH> that this book of yours can be trusted?
Well, has it ever lied to you before? :)
Nothing that you would accept as evidence. Just that it is the word of
God, and anything God says is true.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:10:24
EID:11c8 22575940
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33106bf0
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 1a94fa6e
MB> Better for whom? You mean back in the days of lynchings, Jim Crow
MB> laws, and all that? I repeat: better for whom?
KY> Better for society in general. I am not saying
KY> life was perfect, just
KY> better in comparison.
MB> Probably true, unless you were black, female, the victim of
MB> a rape, had something to say that was unpopular, or otherwise
MB> an "outsider."
As far as most blacks go, you are basically right. But most women at the
time were fine with their lives. Society has changed, so now most women
wouldn't think of things going back to that, but I do think most women were
fairly happy with their lives.
I am not sure if rape was so much more unpunished than it is today. Difference
may be that people took care of their own problems.
And if it was so difficult to say something that was unpopular, society
would not have changed in the first place.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:15:50
EID:e4da 225759e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33106d36
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 1c391354
MB> You are assuming your conclusion as part of your "evidence." It
MB> doesn't work that way. Please take a basic logic course before you
MB> get laughed clear outta here.
KY> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not have the
KY> best success in laughing the Christians out of here..
MB> You're kidding yourself. I've seen many a fundy come and go during
MB> my time here. I've even seen fundies 'converted' to agnosticism.
MB> I've only seen one person 'converted' the other direction, and he
MB> went from secular Jew to practicing Jew -- hardly a direction you
MB> would recommend, I'm sure.
Nope.. Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew, on the other hand, that
would be another story..
And anyway, I am here now.. HolySmoke will never be the same. :)
KY> My evidence is merely the fact that we did not just appear
KY> out of nothing.
MB> That's not a fact; it's your conclusion. Based on what?
Based on common sense.
KY> Logic says that something must have created us.
MB> That's not logic; that's your conclusion. Based on what?
Sure it's logic, just logic you have yet to be able to understand.
KY> Perhaps if someone could PROVE to me how the earth, people,
KY> etc. started, I wouldn't be so quick to promote what I know
KY> to be the truth.
MB> That's not something you know; it's something you believe. Learn
MB> the difference, buffoon.
It is something I know, you just haven't allowed yourself the privilege
of realizing the truth yet.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:25:00
EID:33d8 22575b20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33106f5c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330d8e87
DW> 18 Feb 97 20:57, Ken Young wrote to Fredric Rice:
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation? And, at
DW> Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public?
DW> Have you ever held hands with her? Why did you feel the
DW> need to advertise your sexual orientation like that?
That IMO would not be promoting sexual orientation. I might be a little
uncomfortable with it, but gays should be allowed to show affection just
as heterosexual should.
But, many gays do cause scenes about their lifestyle, and often make a point
of people knowing they are gay, without any reason.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private
|Date: 23 Feb 97 15:07:09
EID:501f 225778e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33105d81
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 11:29, Damien Wellman wrote to Fredric Rice:
DW> Well, it will be at least until next fall that I will have full I-way
DW> access (as a university student), but the mailing list sounds cool.
DW> Now I just hafta figure out PGP...
I'd like to direct your attention to _Pretty Good Privacy_ (ISBN 1-56592-098-8)
by Simson Garfinkel. I found it very informative.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 15:34:50
EID:c044 22577c40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331063c2
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1a9481e2
PID: GED3 2.5
22 Feb 97 19:43, Ed Mills wrote to Fredric Rice:
DR>> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
DR>> by Dr. Sagan.
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
For one thing, it ain't fiction.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:45:00
EID:0f1d 2255bda0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 19d1788a
SS> If you discover, while thinking this over, that you _didn't_
SS> get to consciously make this decision, could you explain why
SS> you believe that homosexuals have more free will than you do?
KY> The choice I made was to go by what I naturally am, and not
KY> rebel against my nature.
You are perfectly aware that you made no choice at all and you
never even considered the obvious. Homosexuals just "go by
what they naturally" are and can't rebel against their nature
either.
KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the
KY> key. See, while some are conscience doing it, gays may
KY> subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual. We make
KY> choices all the time without realizing it. And throughout
KY> your life, what happens to you, will also be a big factor in
KY> the what choices you make.
To suggest that _anyone_ (as a kid) would, or could,
"subconsciously" choose an infinitely more difficult life is nuts.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Cooked Christians
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:35:00
EID:5efa 22566460
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 710183db
JD> Remember a cooking show called "The Galloping Gourmet"? I
JD> think his name was Graham Kerr, and he got his start cooking
JD> in the army (hardly seems a likely start for a gourmet cook!).
JD> He did rather well on his show and cookbooks, but then,
JD> apprantly, got the televangelist bug, and joined with an
JD> 'Evangelist' in Hawaii. I beleive the deal involved Kerr
JD> signing over everything to the 'Evangelist'.
JD> There must have been a falling out, because Kerr resurfaced,
JD> without his wife, trying to make a comeback on the cooking
JD> trail. I wonder if the wife left because of handing over the
JD> lifework profit to some sleazy preacher?
JD> Sure would like to see/read all the details!
I can't really help but I remember reading years ago that she was
the fundy. It must have been hard for him to escape since I also
remember reading that he's an alcoholic. Got to give him credit.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 23 Feb 97 17:32:07
EID:56b9 22578c00
MSGID: 1:123/67 33108b5c
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 01eec263
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
21 Feb 97 11:58, quoting John Brawley to Marilyn Burge:
MB>> From an imnaginary line between the lowest possible (nonexistent)
MB>> positive number, and the largest possible (nonexistent) negative
MB>> number.
JB> That's a range. Perhaps you meant from the lowest possible
JB> (nonexistent) positive number and the _lowest_ (smallest) possible
JB> (nonexistent) negative number? (That would make your "imaginary line"
JB> the "zero point," rather than the range from zero negative-wise
JB> toward the "largest" possible negative number.)
Uh, pardon me...but what is a "nonexistent" number? I am familiar with
imaginary numbers, but nonexistent numbers?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Joe Seatter
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: DENSA Membership Test
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:20:20
EID:b952 22571a80
MSGID: 1:163/125.0 3310ead8
PID: BWTG 3.11 [Eval]
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting Jan deBoer to Ken Young
KY> God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and
KY> create our own problems, including leukemia. God did not create
KY> leukemia, but more than likely, mankind did.
Jd> And your evidence for this is?
look in the conspiracy echo... everything bad is a plot by the CIA to
eliminate religion... :)
... The fool hath said in his heart: "There is a god."
--- Helter Skelter
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|From: Joe Seatter
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:33:15
EID:f55f 22571c20
MSGID: 1:163/125.0 3310ead9
PID: BWTG 3.11 [Eval]
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting Christopher Hughes to Rod Swift
CH> I still wish I'd been able to see this. Of course, I've had only
CH> two visitations at the house from the door-to-door Biblers. One
CH> from the JWs, one from the Mormons.
CH> The JWs I chased off with some babblings from the Illuminatus!
CH> trilogy. However, one of my good friends was over when the Mormons
CH> showed up, and we proceeded to have fun with them..
last time JWs came to my door, they had a little kid with them, and i had
doom 2 blaring in the background... they didn't stay long... :)
... "Damn you all!" said Pooh, being more forthright than usual.
--- Helter Skelter
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|From: Joe Martin
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 21 Feb 97 20:12:04
EID:b08d 2255a180
MSGID: 1:134/67.333 51584342
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 894d1981
PID: TerMail 3 PROFESSIONAL
TAGID: Tag-O-Matic V.12 13e
Greetings Laurie!
Regarding: [ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW] to Martin Goldberg you said:
la> Hi Martin,
mg> authority". Do you have any evidence that this fellow has any
mg> evidence for his belief in god? If he has any, I'd love to see
mg> it.
la> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the less can we
la> believe that it just happened by blind chance. Superficially the
la> obvious alternative to chance is an intelligent Designer."
la> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford University, UK),
la> "The necessity of Darwinism". New Scientist, vol.94, 15 April 1982,
la> p.130.)
Laurie... are you _STILL_ trying to use this misquote?
It's been debunked in DEBATE and EVOLUTION at least 4 or 5
times... I guess since it doesn't work _there_ anymore you
feel that you can use it here... Well...
Martin...
I don't know if you've seen Mr. A. use this before
but... here's the _rest_ of the quote to put it in context...
The more statistically improbable a thing is, the less can we
believe that it just happened by blind chance. Superficially the
obvious alternative to chance is an intelligent Designer. But
Charles Darwin showed how it is possible for blind physical forces
to mimic the effects of conscious design, and, by operating as a
cumulative filter of chance variations, to lead eventual to organized
and adaptive complexity, to mosquitoes and mammoths, to humans and
therefore, indirectly, to books and computers.
A little different than Laurie is trying to portray.
joe
... Obey little! Resist much! Question authority! Eat fibre!
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
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|From: Michael Gothreau
|To: Nick Ravenwood
|Sub: Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 21 Feb 97 13:20:39
EID:456b 22556a80
MSGID: 1:134/67.6 28af02b3
*In reference to a post left by Nick Ravenwood on 17 Feb 97...
* Addressed to Michael Gothreau
* ***********************************************************
Greetings Nick, and may this find you in poor health...
MG> ROFLMAO! Lessee... you are a coward, a liar and an
MG> imbecile...
MG> Thanks for the entertainment, clown...
NR> If that's so, you snivelling faggot, then there's 3 things we
NR> have in common.
NR> Fuck off!
You are projecting again.
I never snivel. You always do.
I am not a faggot. You are. I think you need to hide your traces
better as I easily found someone who has first-hand knowledge of
your sexual conduct (the Internet is SO useful).
I am not a coward. I have never backed down from anyone. You have.
I am not a liar. I believe in truth and don't bother with
falsehoods. You, on the other hand are a proven liar.
And, last but not least, I am hardly the imbecile your post proves
you are...
No class, either.
So, you snivelling, cowardly, stupid, lying, diseased dick-licker:
YOU fuck off!
Oh, but thanks for providing so much amusement...
...passages...
Michael Gothreau (gothreau@direct.ca)
if... productions
... Thanks for your opinion. I hope I can get it off my shoe.
--- PPoint 2.02
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 19 Feb 97 10:02:12
EID:a8b7 22535040
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 330c8334
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75576cd0
Hi Martin...
On 15 Feb 97 13:29:48, Martin Goldberg penned the following to Norman Solomon
re: Bored
MG> As usual, the deists here are unable to provide some evidence for
MG> their beliefs int he supernatural. Some day, finally, some deist is
MG> going to wander in here and provide is with some data instead of some
I doubt one will, actually. I certainly wouldn't want to
attempt to provide you with data because there isn't any I
could give you. I consider deism to be just as much mental
masturbation as any other religion... but masturbation can
still be fun! B-})
MG> Do you think you can be the one or will you continue to desire a
MG> disucssion of god's existance with no evidence to show that it does.
There is a very interesting tome by Gustav Jahoda called "The
Psychology of Superstition" that I would recommend to everyone
interested in the subject (which I assume is everyone here). No
discussion of "gods" can be complete without bringing some
psychology into the pot.
As Jahoda notes, superstitions involving ritual, which by
extension includes all "religions" IMO, have "a common root in
behaviour mechanism whose species-preserving function is
obvious: for a living being lacking insight into the relation
between causes and effects it must be extremely useful to cling
to a behaviour pattern which has once or many times proved to
achieve its aim [or is said to have done so - jm], and to have
done so without danger. If one does not know which details of
the whole performance are essential for its success as well as
for its safety, it is best to cling to them all with slavish
exactitude. The principle 'You never know what might happen if
you don't' is fully expressed in such superstitions." (The
Psychology of Superstition - Gustav Jahoda. Penguin edition
page 145)
The important part of the above quote is "...a living being
lacking insight into the relation between causes and
effects..." It is my contention, and that of others, that those
afflicted with "religion" are suffering from that lack of
insight into causes and effects and depend on their religion
(or their priests) to provide it for them.
John
... Sic hoc legare scis nimium eriditionis habes
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: ALL
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 17 Feb 97 12:19:28
EID:862f 22516260
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 330bddd3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33054690
RH> So burn homosexuality in Hell, not homosexuals.
KY> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.
Is Kenny here trying to blow up the FAQ from overload or something??
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: ALL
|Sub: LA Times: PYRAMID POWER IN U.S.
|Date: 19 Feb 97 19:58:46
EID:decc 22539f40
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 330bddd4
-=> Quoting Tom Klemesrud to All <=-
TK> PYRAMID POWER IN THE UNITED STATES
TK> LOST ANGELESE TIMES Page 1A Saturday 02/15/97
TK> : Critics allege investment scams were used to prop up
TK> government. Collapse of schemes cost leaders the allegiance of
TK> citizens and tolerance of allies.
TK> _______________
TK> By SPUD "DA FO" WILLAMS
TK> Lost Angelese Times Staph Reactionary
TK> GLENDALE, California--Adhesive tape holds Dennis Erlich's face
TK> together. Bruised cast shadows around his eyes and nose. His
TK> lips are swollen from stitches inside his mouth.
TK> Erlich, a prominent dissident Scientologist minister who opposes
TK> the phatic government of President Bill Clinton, was beaten one
TK> night last month on his way home from a restaurant. The
TK> culprits, he says, were two silent men dresses in black. Agents
TK> of the dreaded CIA-connected FOP$ (Followers of Phatmanotoo),
TK> state security service, Erlich claims.
[much deleted]
Sounds like someone hasn't become clear yet. Keep trying. :>
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 19 Feb 97 10:53:28
EID:f01d 225356a0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 330c8335
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd6c9e
Hi Rod...
On 09 Feb 97 14:20:14, Rod Swift penned the following to Dan Ceppa
re: Pedophile Christian cook
RS> Wow! That'd make a delicious new ice-cream flavour! Jesus on a
RS> Stick! :)
Yet another confection to go along with Cadbury's Easter Creme
Eggs for Dead-God-On-A-Stick Day!
John
... Christ died for our sins, so let's not disappoint Him.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: JASON HARMON
|Sub: Test
|Date: 24 Feb 97 00:44:14
EID:095c 22580580
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 37963e87
JH> Hello, hello?
JH> Is this thing on?
SSCCRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCHH!
... "Bother" said Pooh, as his runabout entered the Badlands.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GY
* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
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|From: Joe Martin
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 22 Feb 97 13:22:18
EID:cfcf 22566ac0
MSGID: 1:134/67.333 e249d3c1
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 894d20bc
PID: TerMail 3 PROFESSIONAL
TAGID: Tag-O-Matic V.12 13e
Greetings, Laurie. You were talking to Joe Seatter
about "Water and Flood." on Sat 22 Feb 1997
js>> the bible itself says so, when it say the water was supposed to
js>> rise over the hills & mountains.
la> Can you tell me how HIGH the Bible says that the highest mountains
la> were at the time of the Flood? I am not aware that it does give that
la> sort of information, does it? Clearly, unless they were MORE than 2
la> 1/2 kilometers high, you don't have a case, do you?
Are you asking for theological or scientific information here?
The Bible (OT) was written for the Semitic people of the middle east
and contains little or no information about regions beyond the
Mediterranian. Hardly accurate as a source for geological
formations in Europe, N. & S. America or even your own little
continent. 2500 m is roughly 8100'. Looking from this window
in front of me I can see mountains 12-14000' that have been here
a little longer than 10K years. What's your point?
la> There is NOT any real problem about there being enough water at all.
la> It could all be a matter about how regular or irregular the Earth's
la> surface was at the relevant time, couldn't it?
Where do you put all the material you "smoothed off"?
Where do you get all the water to cover the parts that
were above sea level BEFORE the "flood"?
Where did all the water go AFTER the flood? It couldn't
just drain off into the oceans... they're already full,
remember?
joe
... "More Hay, Trigger?" "No thanks,Roy, I'm stuffed."
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:01:40
EID:151a 22582020
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331112b3
REPLY: 1:123/67 330ec9e9
PID: GED3 2.5
22 Feb 97 10:26, Shelby Sherman wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Don't these silly fucks have anything better to do with their
DW>> time?
SS> It just shows that fundies are bigots with no sense of humor.
Like we really needed more evidence of that.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:02:05
EID:bf54 22582040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111378
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 2a17ecf3
PID: GED3 2.5
19 Feb 97 11:11, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> I'm sure it would. I notice, however, that Gardner seems to have
DW>> neglected to mention your help.
JB> My assistance to him was minor,
I'm sure Gardner would agree.
JB> but important at the time
I had hoped the above taste of honesty would be enough to convince you to
remain honest. I guess that was too much to expect from a crackpot, though.
Have you discussed your "hypothesis" with Gardner? Knowing his interest
in mathematics, I'm sure he would find it *fascinating*.
JB> Understand what you presume to criticize, David.
I've understood you're a crackpot with severe delusions of grandeur for
quite some time now, John.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:05:22
EID:ed4b 225820a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331113bb
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d3fa4
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 01:24, Ken Young wrote to David Worrell:
KY> And actually I am not crazy about guns. Just see that they are
KY> necessary.
For what, precisely? What good is a .38 going to do you when the jackbooted
thugs come after you in TANKS?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: death
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:06:31
EID:01de 225820c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331113eb
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 d5c36d63
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 11:54, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> The three of us manage to keep our egos reined in, though, so
DW>> we're not constantly tripping over the damned things. You would
DW>> do well to learn from our collective examples.
JB> (*GuffaW!!*)
It's good that you can laugh at yourself, John - there might be hope for
you yet.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:07:06
EID:c187 225820e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111415
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 a6ad18e3
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 11:55, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
JB>> I was referring to Hector's response,
DW>> Could it be that you *still* don't know who you're talking to?
DW>> Oh, wait.. you knew all along, right?
JB> I caught the hint earlier, but ignored it.
I'm sure you did, John.
JB> or would you rather play silly games with this as well?
Do you really have to ask?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:08:08
EID:735a 22582100
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111461
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75a68a9b
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 13:31, Martin Goldberg wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Imagine people who find Southern Baptists just a little bit too
DW>> liberal, and you've just pictured an Independent Baptist. These
MG> I always love it when the Southern Baptist Convention meets
Yep. It keeps 'em off the streets for a while.
MG> Their idea of moderate is a bit to the right of Rush.
If you define "a bit" as "several parsecs," yes.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:09:07
EID:1d94 22582120
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111538
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f5b6f
PID: GED3 2.5
22 Feb 97 20:46, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's gospel
DW>> program. It seems many viewers were disturbed by his "metal"
DW>> tribute album.
SQ> Isn't that great? We heard his version of "Smoke on the Water" the
SQ> other night, and just about died.
I heard Paradise City on the night I referred to above. I also got to listen
to the DJ rant about pissing off Christians. It was quite an enjoyable night.
:)
This is the same DJ who once played some song (which I unfortunately missed)
called "Hey, masturbater". Someone called in to the studio and complained
(I picked up on the story at this point). He then ranted about her for a
while, and played Denis Leary's "Asshole" song.
I'm going to have to give this guy a call one night. :)
SQ> Maybe Pat is finally having a few
SQ> cups of Reality House brand coffee.
"God! These people are *NUTS*!"
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:12:45
EID:0d9c 22582180
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111595
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330f307c
PID: GED3 2.5
22 Feb 97 12:44, Richard Smith wrote to David Worrell:
jb>> (I thought they might do that; I just wanted to watch
jb>> them dance....)
DW>> I'm sure you did, John.
RS> Is Brawly still under the delusion that he calls the piper?
Hmmm.... ... ... Yes, here it is. He does suffer
from that delusion, too.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:14:23
EID:ef69 225821c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331115be
REPLY: 1:3603/210 38d7ba36
PID: GED3 2.5
22 Feb 97 16:16, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
JB>> (*sigh*) "Do not go to the elves with questions, for they will
JB>> say both 'no' and 'yes.'"
DW>> May we start calling you Glorfindel now?
RC> No. Yes.
"Bob" it is, then.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Wonder Woman Comics win
|Date: 24 Feb 97 13:56:00
EID:88f5 22586f00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Ragland <=-
-> On 10 Feb 97 03:13:00, David Ragland got back to Dan Ceppa
DR0> I've worked at a prison for the last 16 years.
As soap boy in the men's showers.
DC> Just how many license plates did you make?
None. His butt was too sore to sit at the machine.
... Nothing fails as much as prayer fails.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DARRYL GONZALEZ
|Sub: Critical Thinking
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:10:00
EID:f7e6 22587140
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Darryl Gonzalez <=-
DG> We Christians[...]
You are assumimg you are a Christian. For all you know, your
god thinks otherwise.
DG> [...] are not cruel people, determined to kill whoever
DG> we want to.
History demonstrates conclusively that you are wrong.
Christian leaders do not tell there followers whom to
kill: they just tell their followers whom to hate---
human nature then takes over from there.
DG> About critical thinking: Yes, I did think critically.
Let me guess. You tried it a few decades ago and decided
you did not like it, so you quit. Am I right?
... "Be fuckers and multiply...." -- Genesis 1:22 (paraphrased)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DARRYL GONZALEZ
|Sub: 'Evidences' For Gods
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:13:00
EID:c5d2 225871a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Darryl Gonzalez <=-
DG> Yes, but remember, here we are dealing with an expert's
DG> opinion of the facts.
You are saying that you would believe these "experts" if they
told you your god(s) does not exist. Would you really? If
not, you are a hipocritical liar.
... "It's a miracle, Marilyn, another fucking miracle!" -- Dan Ceppa
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormon Frolics
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:27:39
EID:3be5 22575b60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33107214
Steve Quarrella said "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" to Christopher
Hughes, adding:
CH> Mormon #1: "Hello, I'm Elder Mott, and this is Elder
CH> We're from the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints."
SQ> "I guess that a cup of coffee is out of the question, then. We were
SQ> just going upstairs to fuck. Can you come back later?"
"Yeeees, but we'd _rather_ watch, if you and your good lady wife
do not mind . . . ."
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
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SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Dinosaur Shoes
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:28:28
EID:be10 22575b80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33107215
Dan Ceppa said "It'll be apparent" to Rod Swift, adding:
DC> Today's quize's premise was:
DC> "What's hiding behind the apron of the Frugal Gourmet!"
RS> [Cue clip from "Dinosaurs"]
RS> ...I think we're gonna need another Timmy!
DC> LOL!
DC> "Brought to you by the Wesayso Company..."
DC> Are they making new shows of the _Dinosaurs_?
I initially misread this as "Are they making new shoes of the
_Dinosaurs_?", which propelled me instantly into FantasyLand and new
musings on the "Paluxy Man Tracks":
"On your right, you will see the awesome tracks of the
Holyshitosaur, 30 inches from toe to heel. This one was wearing the
Stride-Rite Trident Cruiser: note the separation between the
toes for maximum comfort and sure-footedness on the primordial
terrain. Alongside the tracks of the Holyshitosaur, you will see
those of primitive Man, decked out in size 12 Florsheim EasyLife
loafers. Here at the ICR, we have been unable to determine as yet
whether these were the tassel, or the penny model . . . "
Some brain farts smell better than others.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: All
|Sub: No Man Unclean
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:29:15
EID:02af 22575ba0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33107216
Bryson Hughes said "BIBLE QUOTES" to all, adding:
BH> Why did the sheet of all the animals represent the Gentiles?
BH> Because of the Noachide covenant.
The sheet of all the animals refers to the ruling that ALL are
eligible to join the Ku Klux Klan; yea, some quadrupeds there have
risen to the rank of Kleagal and even Wizard on the basis of their
superior IQs. Noachide is, of course, an early version of Naugahide,
a humane replacement for sheepskin upon which covenants, diplomas,
and the like may be written.
BH> In this way, Peter was taught that even those who are not
BH> Jewish, and eat all meats, are also to be saved by Messiah.
BH> Thus Peter said, "God has shown me not to call any MAN
BH> unclean."
"for by the separation of his toes, MAN parteth the hoof, and by
his acid reflux SURELY he cheweth the cud: therefore is MAN not
unclean. He is Kosher, and may be enjoyed for all meals except on
fast days. Yea, they that weareth rubber boots and spend long times
in streams may even THEN be counted as fish and enjoyed during
Lent."
Good news, indeed, Brother Hughes!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Alan Hess
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 666
|Date: 23 Feb 97 17:34:43
EID:c463 22578c40
Whilst masticating on , ROBERT CURRY (1:3603/210)
wrote to ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT:
AG>> There will be a new alliance following the earthquake that
AG>> sinks Los Angeles and 1100x4-500 miles of California at the
AG>> close of the Gentile dispensation.
RC> Do you have a time period for this prediction? I'm collecting crazy
RC> predictions from religious nuts, provided they are not so vague as to
be
RC> meaningless.
Considering that no earthquake will ever sink Los Angeles (L.A. is moving
north, not sinking into the ground), why even bother asking? If the polar
ice sheets melt, Los Angeles will be inundated, but increased global temperature
causing higher sea level does not equal an earthquake.
AG>> Its purpose will be to stop Communism because Russian troops
AG>> will attack and invade mainland USA.
RC> ROFL! Is it part of your dogma that the Russians are going to
RC> revert back to communism, too?
And even if they did, that they'd be dumb enough to invade the continental
U.S.?
--- Msged/2 4.10
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Alan Hess
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Found on the Web
|Date: 23 Feb 97 18:15:44
EID:f2bd 225791e0
Whilst masticating on , Shelby Sherman (1:123/67)
wrote to All:
SS> WE BELIEVE that there is a day of reckoning. The usurper will be
SS> thrown out by the terrible might of Yahweh's people, as they
SS> return to their roots and their special destiny. We know there is
SS> soon to be a day of judgment and a day when Christ's Kingdom
SS> (government) will be established on earth, as it is in heaven.
I thought all these kooks were opposed to a one-goverment world (aka "New
World Order.") Can't these peckerheads make up their tiny little mind?
--- Msged/2 4.10
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Information and Origin
|Date: 24 Feb 97 18:50:04
EID:18da 22589640
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e2f8
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75c38a16
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Laurie Appleton:
MG> ROTFL. Laughing at you, Junior. Not with you. At you.
I swear, this guy could come up with a quote that says "We breathe air,"
and I'd be questioning the context.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 24 Feb 97 18:50:38
EID:a89f 22589640
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e324
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75c3e974
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Ken Young:
MG> SPECIFICALLY, now, what is wrong with genetically altered food?
BTW, what's up with this sheep cloning that I heard about on the radio this
morning? Gonna make a LOT of my former supervisors happy to know they can
create consorts on demand.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Randi
|Date: 24 Feb 97 18:51:16
EID:41c5 22589660
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e390
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75c40426
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> girls produced pictures of themselves with fairies. Twice. They
SQ>> managed to fool a lot of people, including Sir Arthur Conan
SQ>> Doyle, with pictures that are obviously fakes. It's pretty much
MG> From what I have heard, this doesn't seem to be too difficult. Doyle
was
MG> a crackpot himself.
The guy was -nuts,- although if memory serves, he was driven to his erratic
behaviour by the death of his son in "The Great War." It's amazing to me
that the guy who could come up with one of history's great detectives (who
lived in a black and white Victorian world, I might add) could be boonswaggled
by a couple of girls with a box camera.
Hey, Fundies! I've got some pictures with me and Yahweh. Wanna buy some?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 24 Feb 97 18:53:02
EID:662f 225896a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e447
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75c418e6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
MG> Ask to see the Magic Underwear. It always works.
I ask 'em the tough questions, like "Why has your church posthumously baptized
all of the popes going back to {and maybe beyond} Pius IX? Don't you know
that the Vatican could declare war on the LDS church for that?"
MG> DO you remember Sterling's Jewelry and Dist. Co.?
Were they here after 12/1992, which was when Suzy and I moved here?
MG> was Moron. I noticed that he wore a T shirt under his shirt, which
was
MG> odd, even in those days. He also had something that he wore that came
all
MG> the way up tot he neck of his T shirt. In those days, I was naive about
I can't help BUT notice the temple garments on some of my in-laws. Once
you notice 'em, you find yourself paying a little more attention to what
they wear. Like I have time for that!
MG> He told me that it was toilet paper that he put in his shirt to
MG> protect his nipples which were sensitive tot he t shirt.
Rather proud of his faith, eh?
MG> Some years later I ran into him on the street and he was still wearing
the
MG> magic underwear...but now he was married. Do they use it as a sex aid?
Personally, I think it's a device used by the higher-ups to make you aware
of the fact that you're under their control. My wife has told me about
people who wear them to, uh, fornicate, while others "do the dirty deed"
and then put the temple garments back on right away.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Randi
|Date: 24 Feb 97 18:57:02
EID:a420 22589720
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e4ad
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3310f25b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Judith!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Judith Bandsma ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Huh...I was reading in one of Randi's books yesterday that they never
SQ>> DID admit the whole thing, yet some folks here told me awhile back
SQ>> that they DID admit to it.
JB> Maybe when Randi wrote the book they hadn't.
Strange, as the book is fairly recent, and it mentions that both the cousins
have since passed on (Shit, I think they'd BOTH be in their nineties.).
JB> I've seen the PBS special where they showed how they did it and even
JB> recreated one shot.
I -really- need to see this.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 24 Feb 97 19:05:00
EID:ad10 225898a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e6ef
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33111538
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Lunae dies February 24 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
DW> I heard Paradise City on the night I referred to above. I also got to
DW> listen to the DJ rant about pissing off Christians. It was quite an
DW> enjoyable night. :)
So what's the track list on this thing? If the weather hadn't been so bad
this evening, I would have stopped by Best Buy on the way home and picked
up a copy. Maybe tomorrow I'll get it when I pick up the "Private Parts"
soundtrack. There's ANOTHER album that'll really annoy the Fundy fucks.
Heard about the "Army of God" taking responsibility for the bombing of an
abortion clinic and a gay bar. Someone, hunt these motherfuckers down and
try them for "war crimes." Either that or send them up to the Empire State
Building to be "tour guides." And these Fundy fucks wonder why we're so
opposed to their -horseshit- in our schools.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Mormon Frolics
|Date: 24 Feb 97 19:07:24
EID:4e91 225898e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3311e70f
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33107214
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Don!
Dies solis February 23 1997, Dixit Don Martin ad Steve Quarrella:
CH>> Mormon #1: "Hello, I'm Elder Mott, and this is Elder
CH>> We're from the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints."
SQ>> "I guess that a cup of coffee is out of the question, then. We were
SQ>> just going upstairs to fuck. Can you come back later?"
DM> "Yeeees, but we'd _rather_ watch, if you and your good lady wife
DM> do not mind . . . ."
And I bet they're kinkier than anything that Suzy or I might devise...
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:48:06
EID:0040 22587e00
MSGID: 1:229/622 3311b837
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1e1fa7e6
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Ed Mills said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
EM> walls and dead grannies crawling up my leg with knives in their teeth
EM> for this lifetime, thank you.
Gee, you got all the good stuff. All I ever got was everything looking
like it was overlaid with purple paisley.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Misogynist Worrell
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:16:58
EID:d3e4 22584200
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3311a00e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 330e55c3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> David Worrell said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Sue Alexander <=-
DW> Of course I was. That title is very important to me, after all.
Better set a new mail alias, then.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 2608/2 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21
SEEN-BY: 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:45:16
EID:af91 225845a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3311a00f
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 2fa6a1c9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Norman Solomon said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Richard Smith <=-
NS> Can a worse judgement fall upon anyone in this echo than being
NS> described as "Another fucking Al" DYSWIM?
There are 2. To be described as 'another Laurie Appleton' and 'another
Grigor-Scott'.
There are lesser insulting comparisons, of course, but those are the
big 3.
... For Sale. Eight puppies from a German Sheppard and an Alaskan Hussy.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Dyslexia
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:47:18
EID:bd32 225845e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3311a010
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org f596d05f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Norman Solomon said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Richard Smith <=-
NS> I would love to hear how Christian doctrane has become so corupted,
I
It's ALWAYS been this corrupted. Comes from the country being settled by
the British religious perverts. England just had a way to get rid of
them...we don't.
... Sex: ____ Male ____ Female ____ Horse ____ Sheep ____ Other
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: .
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:55:20
EID:09d6 225846e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3311a011
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6a60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Richard Smith said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Katherine Wintersnight
<=-
RS> Well, that's two harpies heard from, with positive feedback
RS> in both cases.
SHIT!!!!
Have been having bad mail problems. But I acknowledged this one about the
same time Lynda did.
It was priceless. Shall we put you on staff as freelance advertising copy
writer?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 24 Feb 97 11:36:25
EID:19af 22585c80
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 19 Feb 97 09:12pm, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
BB>>>
BB>>> Repent for WHAT?
DG>> For whatever sin he has committed in this life. Including the sin
of
DG>> not choosing to follow God.
BB>> I thought we had free will?!? If so, how can making the
BB>> choice not to follow
BB>> God be considered "wrong"?
KY> Because we have the free will to be wrong, if that is our choice.
Sounds to me like you're trying to justify a warped version of Pascal's
Wager. What if you're worshipping the wrong God? In other words, what if
YOU
are the one who is wrong?
BB>>> Who is going to make David go to hell?
DG>> David will. Every person brings about his or her
DG>> own eternal destiny.
DG>> God knows who will and will not be saved, but we
DG>> do have a free will to
DG>> choose to follow Him or not in this life.
BB>> And if he chooses not to go?
KY> Everyone that does not choose God, chooses to go to Hell.
Fly-by. Once again, if we have free will, and David chooses *not* to go
to hell, who is going to force him to do so?
Becke
... I'm not *creating* a disturbance; I'm adding to the one already here!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 269
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/IM 2.50
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: "TRUE" CHRISTIAN DODG
|Date: 24 Feb 97 11:36:26
EID:790b 22585c80
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 20 Feb 97 08:30pm, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
FR>> homosexuals. There's a book you might look for,
FR>> "The Death Penalty is
FR>> Proscribed for Homosexuals in the Bible."
BB>> Let me guess...written by Peter J. Peters, right?
KY> I will admit, when I first saw him, and he promoted that book, I did
KY> start seeing it that way. But now, I tend to believe a spiritual death
KY> was what was meant.
So you admit that you think homosexuals should be put to death?
Becke
... *- You folks telling me that intolerance is a Traditional Family Valu
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 269
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/IM 2.50
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Dyslexia
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:59:58
EID:d3ee 22587f60
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22587f7d
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
NS> I would love to hear how Christian doctrane has become so corupted
For that, Norman, you need to go back to about 50 AD and one Saul of Tarsus.
Several books on the early history of xtianity and history around the first
century AD in general will undoubtedly help here. Get as many different
perspectives as you can find, and remember to think critically about what
you
read, especially when reading apologetically oriented texts.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 24 Feb 97 16:00:02
EID:3298 22588000
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 22588001
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
NS>>> Which Christian theology is this then?
HP>> The xtian theology in which "all [including infants] have sinned"
NS> I was looking for a lable, ie; Anglican, Roman Catholic etc.
There are many, many xtian subcults that hold this belief. They get it
from a
holybook they all have in common (some have bigger bibles than others, but
that's a different argument). They call it a "bible." :-)
NS> I am looking for info. What and Why people believe or not, from those
who
NS> hold those views personally in the subject under discussion.
Sorry, I don't "hold those views personally," but I did refer you to someone
who'd just finished repeating those personally-held views in this very echo:
Jim Staal. That should enable you to obtain exactly the information you
seek.
Glad to have been of assistance.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 23 Feb 97 15:07:27
EID:5f11 225778e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105d2f
-> On 21 Feb 97 07:02:50, John Brawley got back to Mark Kimes
JB> (Pssst! Hey Kimes! Who gives a shit?)
MK> Why, you do, of course. That's why we're into our, what, fourth
JB> (*rofl!*) If I _gave_a_shit_, Mark, you'd see one hell of a
JB> different sort of text from me. I told you; I _like_ to write
Even if Hector is dead, his Law lives on!
... He who lives by the salad bar dies by the salad bar. - Hector Plasmic
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 15:13:07
EID:3821 225779a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105e83
-> On 21 Feb 97 06:55:24, John Brawley got back to David Worrell
JB> I was referring to Hector's response,
DW> Could it be that you *still* don't know who you're talking to? Oh,
DW> wait.. you knew all along, right?
JB> I caught the hint earlier, but ignored it. My assumption was always
See, David, he knew it all along but ignored it!
JB> that my current correspondent _is_ "Hector Plasmic"'s real persona?,
And, all this time I thought Hector was dead...
JB> or would you rather play silly games with this as well?
What the hell. Let's play John's game and be silly!
... "Musstn't get sssthillly!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: ...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 15:16:04
EID:7497 22577a00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105f34
-> On 21 Feb 97 13:59:03, Ed Mills got back to Jason Harmon
JH> Seeing is how Al seems to have left for a while,
EM> That explains why my daily download is taking one minute instead
EM> of fifteen, and my drivespace gauge has suddenly stopped crawling
Ma Bell has offered him a contract to rejoin the fray. He's
holding out for more money.
... "Go forth and hassle all nations."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ignoring a demand
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:11:37
EID:c366 2257b160
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310c099
-> On 20 Feb 97 14:16:06, ROBERT CURRY got back to JOHN BRAWLEY
JB> Now are you going to _approve_ the answer, or not?)
RC> What part of "No" didn't you understand all the previous times?
Probably the second letter as it looks to much like a zero and
it doesn't exist.
... I see the problem! You're using the Bugfix Bible.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Test
|Date: 24 Feb 97 00:24:03
EID:1592 22580300
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310dfa3
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:05:22, Jason Harmon got back to All
JH> Testing, testing, one two three.....
You forgot zero, heathen.
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private
|Date: 24 Feb 97 04:28:24
EID:9a2c 22582380
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33111964
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33105d83
PID: GED3 2.5
XC: #OUTBOX, #OUTBOX
23 Feb 97 15:07, David Worrell wrote to Damien Wellman:
DWell>> Well, it will be at least until next fall that I will have full
DWell>> I-way access (as a university student), but the mailing list
DWell>> sounds cool. Now I just hafta figure out PGP...
me> I'd like to direct your attention to _Pretty Good Privacy_ (ISBN
me> 1-56592-098-8) by Simson Garfinkel. I found it very informative.
Oh, btw... the book will set you back about $25. I realize that's almost
a year's salary in West Virginia, but we all have to make sacrifices.
I think you need to change your initials. I was here first. :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:45
EID:a88f 22576480
MSGID: 1:3652/1 3310CC03
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Fredric Rice <=-
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation?
I trust you never hug, kiss, flirt, dance, and/or hold hands
with a woman in public. After all, you said above no one needs
to advertise their sexual orientation.
Dumbass.
KY> And, at least there were less abortions, back then.
^
You left out the word "safe".|
... Do you know Jesus? If so, please tell him he owes me $10.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:45
EID:06a7 22576480
MSGID: 1:3652/1 3310CC04
-=> Quoting Ken Young to David Worrell <=-
KY> Everything natural, and I do not think that hunger was naturally
KY> intended.
DW> Then why must we eat?
KY> Come on, a little intelligence would be nice.
It would be. Keep wishing and maybe you'll get some.
KY> I didn't mean you will never get hungry, but that it was never
KY> intended for people to be malnourished. if we would believe, He would
KY> provide for all.
So your message for the starving in Africa is "Pray harder!!!"?
... On the evolutionary scale, he's just slightly above tin.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:45
EID:4425 22576480
MSGID: 1:3652/1 3310CC06
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Dan Ceppa <=-
KY> Yep.. The education system has really gone down the tubes.. And
KY> could it possibly be because we have taken all traces of Christianity
KY> out of the schools?
Uh-huh. And I'm sure grades would improve, drug use would drop,
violence would end, and all teenage sexual activity would stop
if the schools would make us pray like they used to.
... The results of your IQ test are back. They're negative.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:45
EID:9f8a 22576480
MSGID: 1:3652/1 3310CC07
-=> Quoting Ken Young to David Worrell <=-
DW> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
And what theory states that "we came from apes"?
BTW, I tried digging to Hell yesterday. I only got to China.
... "This man is scaring me." - Wakko
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:45
EID:f9b7 22576480
MSGID: 1:3652/1 3310CC08
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Marilyn Burge <=-
KY> My evidence is merely the fact that we did not just appear out of
KY> nothing. Logic says that something must have created us.
My evidence is merely the fact that Yahweh did not just appear
out of nothing. Logic says that something must have created him.
... I don't have an attitude problem--it's supposed to be like this
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 21:55:41
EID:1974 2258aee0
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3311d5ff
RS> * On 13-02-97 at 03:26, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Re: Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
PH> PH> RS> Babies.
PH> PH> RS> Fun to make.
PH> PH> RS> Fun to eat.
PH> PH> RS> Rod "...I have a picture, too :)" Swift :)
PH> PH> All right, Rod -- *no* tales of eating at Sammy's on
PH> PH> the Rice campus...:-)
PH> RS> No, I really do have a picture... It's a jpg, I believe.
PH> RS> Rod "...I could put it on my website for you :)" Swift :)
PH> If it's one of the binaries that occasionally gets "mistakenly" posted
to
PH> alt.tasteless, I've probably seen it...but you might as well put it
up,
PH> anyway. Why pass up the chance to piss off some of the more fanatic
PH> fundies? :-)
RS> It's on the web at http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html
RS> Be warned. That page is sick :) :)
No kidding...have you checked their "Nuremberg Trials" page
(www.christiangallery.com/atrocity)? When I first sent Neal Horsley mail
telling him what i thought of his psychosis, the next day my name had been
added to the list of people he and his thugs are allegedly accumulating
data on -- as an abortionist living in *Oregon*. When I pointed out that,
if he was -that- accurate with the files of everyone he wants to kill once
he's in power, then no one will ever have cause to fear him, he actually
moved my name -- now I'm a clinic worker, and he doesn't even specify a
state for me. (The one that really got a laugh from me was the
"Miscellaneous Blood Flunkies" list: until last Thursday, that page
contained the name of one Jill Ireland...who's been dead for four or five
years. Neal's since had someone correct him, and now *Pat* Ireland (who's
still alive, at last report) was listed instead.
I think a few folks from HolySmoke need to visit this work of lunacy and
demand to be added to his list...and one more note: until last Wednesday
(the 19th), Horsley had a deadline of this June 1st for accumulating
"evidence" on their imagined enemies, to be published...all of a sudden,
with no explanation, the date has been moved back seven months to next
January 1st. Maybe reality intruded for a moment? :-)
--PLH, www.meat.com/upyours/ is more my kind of site, anyway
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:07:44
EID:746b 2258b0e0
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3311d600
RS> * On 13-02-97 at 03:53, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Our Daily Ejaculation" in echo Holysmoke:
PH> KW> RS>He probably wants to date me, Katherine :) :)
PH> KW> Only because he thinks that all he has to do is buy you a coke
and a
PH> KW> hamburger and you'll do anything.
PH> RS> I come across as *that* easy, do I?
PH> In that case, I'd say you're doing it the right way in -this- echo.
:-)
RS> It looks like Mooth has left us anyway. :)
Say it isn't so? Oh, the humanity...how -will- I sleep tonight?
(For some reason, I think I'll manage. :-)
PH> RS> Hey! Patrick Humphrey... You reading this? Am I "easy"?
PH> RS> [Rod hopefully jogs Mr Humphrey into remembering what sorta
PH> RS> stunts we used to pull about 'Rod and Chris slept with Patrick
PH> RS> and Dale-Ann' :) :) After all, it was true. We had the living
PH> RS> room floor, and they were safely tucked away in bed with kitties
PH> RS> safely inside pillow-cases :) :) *mrrrow!*]
PH> No kidding...to this day, all we have to do to induce sheer terror in
them
PH> is a mention of "you know, Rod and Chris will be coming down for a visit
PH> Real Soon Now!". And to think they said cats couldn't be trained...:-)
RS> :) :) They love us :) :) :) They really love us :) :)
They know one thing: newcomers == people who may have lots of food that
they'll share with poor, starving cats who aren't appreciated by their
owners. (Just ask them. :-)
PH> RS> Rod "...ah, those were the days. I hear that Patrick is giving
PH> RS> Chris and I a wedding present or two that shed fur :) :)" Swift
:)
PH> Only because we couldn't find RevRon to ship you guys, much less stuff
him
PH> in the box and ship him by Eventual Express...:-)
PH> --PLH, it'll get there...Eventually!
RS> I am sure it will :) :) But we prefer kitties. Kitties are fun!
RS> Rod "...all cats are fun :)" Swift :)
I couldn't agree more...and so do the alligators down the street in the
ditch. :-)
--PLH, believing in kindness to animals: I like to feed the neighborhood
pigeons...to the cats.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:19:30
EID:7506 2258b260
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3311d601
KY> More in my direction, yes, but I go even further.
KY> Try people like Ken Hamblin, Chuck Harder, Greg Meadows, and others..
RS> Oh, your dribbling ecumenical shit makes us all want to chuck harder.
KY> Actually, I am very much against ecumenicalism.
That's painfully obvious. Can't have all those heathens thinking they have
any rights, can you?
KY> While I think I meant it more about physical things, there
KY> is proof of God's existence- us.
And your evidence in support of this assertion is...?
RS> Oh, and please, describe how it is "proof".
KY> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God must
KY> be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the idea
KY> that God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
Correction: it's the only thing your 1-MHz intellect is capable of
comprehending. Those of us with a faster CPU have a variety of more
logical theories.
--PLH, one of those pesky skeptics
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:29:08
EID:ebcf 2258b3a0
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3311d602
Jd> Shouldn't you follow god's NATURAL atheist intention?
KY> Atheism is not, not having a religious belief, it is
KY> specifically not believing in God, IOW making a choice to not
KY> believe. A baby has not made that choice yet, so he cannot be
KY> an atheist.
FR> Everyone is born not believing in deity constructs,
FR> Ken. Occultism and superstitious fear and hatred must
FR> be ingrained in an individual before they start
FR> believing in deity constructs.
KY> How do you know a baby doesn't have any belief in a god? Unless you
KY> have spoken with a baby first hand, and asked, there is no way you
KY> could no.
Well, Ken, did it occur to you that maybe a baby hasn't made a choice to
believe *OR* not believe? Since you're making the closest thing to an
affirmative claim, guess what? YOU get to do the work to prove your
assertion. If you're going to insist that you can prove a negative, here's
a test for you: prove that I *don't* have a signed and notarized statement
from you promising to pay me the sum of $1,000,000.
Have fun.
KY> Before someone believes in a diety, they must be full of hate? I am
KY> sure many people, of many faiths besides even Christian ones, would
KY> strongly disagree with that.
Well, at least you see one small part of the truth...but will you consider
the possibility that you just might be wrong, or will you hide your head
in
the sand and claim your deity is making you do it?
--PLH, all gods are jealous
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Idiocy
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:40:33
EID:a42c 2258b500
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3311d603
JH>
JH> If your going to keep quoting your bible like this, you're going to
JH> have to give us a reason to trust it. So, do you have any evidence
JH> that this book of yours can be trusted?
KY> Well, has it ever lied to you before? :)
KY> Nothing that you would accept as evidence. Just that it is the word
KY> of God, and anything God says is true.
Really? Then bats really *are* birds (Leviticus 11:13-19), insects have
four legs (Lev. 11:22-23), and rabbits chew their cud (Lev. 11:5-6)?
Got any other fairy tales you'd like to try?
--PLH, this God guy evidently never took biology
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Humanism
|Date: 21 Feb 97 21:09:00
EID:8401 2255a920
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org feead031
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Norman Solomon <=-
Hi Marilyn
MB> There are many writers who can express the humanist point of
MB> view better than I can. Bertrand Russell would be a good
MB> place to start, though he's more atheist than humanist.
MB> Probably a better exposition of the humanist point of view
MB> would be Ingersoll. He's usually regarded as the father of
MB> modern humanism.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, see you are a little gold
mine.
Bye the way have you thought about writting something to acompany your
library? A little about yourself, how you came to aquire it, what
motives, and your objectives. That sort of thing, in doing so you could
make clear to future generations what your intention were DYSWIM?
MB> If you have Internet access, go to the internet infidels, and
MB> you'll find scads of freethought/humanist/atheist links from
MB> there, including newsgroups.
Not yet :-( I am looking into it at the mo' and have been advised that
I will need all new hardware/software, ISDN lines et-al. I am a tad
fussy though I demand that things work well. I was quite put off the
Internet when I first saw it on a friends Pentium 75, slow it needed
7 days notice in writting do anything.
[meanwhile back to book theft ]
NS> Are you saying that these people form a very large group?
NS> What sort of %? I had assumed it was a sort of lunatic
NS> frindge that was being blown out of proportion, and used to
NS> beat up on the majority of reasonable Christians.
MB> Hard to say what the percentage is. But they sure are vocal. And,
MB> I suspect they are a rather large minority. Measure 9 passed in
(Measure 9?)
MB> some counties in Oregon, and would have carried the State, had it
MB> not been for the Portland Metro Area comprising half the State's
MB> population. It's a pitiful thing to see that kind of intolerance
MB> among people who claim to worship a god of love. Sad, sad thing.
Imagin how He^ might feel, "You have made my name a blasphamy amoung
the nations" springs to mind. Must look that up.
MB> The strange dichotomy is that while this large minority is
MB> screaming about "special rights for gays," other more rational
MB> forms of Christianity in the same state are ordaining gays and
MB> recognizing their commitments to each other.
I take the view that what the Bible says, it *says* to you, or do they
reduce God to a gossip IYSWIM.
NS> I am new to BBSing and was quite taken aback when I fixed
NS> into this echo and got all sorts of labels thrown at me
NS> because I said I was a Christian. It felt not unlike walking
NS> into a Jewish settlement and saying you were German, but
NS> being treated as though you were a Nazi. It comes across as a
NS> form of raceism. DYSWIM?
MB> Yes. I do. Just calling yourself a Christian in these-here parts
MB> is tantamount to carrying a sandwich board that says "kick me" on
MB> both sides. I'm sure there are other echoes where the hostility
:-)
MB> isn't as open as it is here, but you'll find few where there is
MB> more honesty. Many of the participants here have been seriously
MB> wounded by the more fundamentalist forms of Christianity, and this
MB> is a place where they can express their anger without fear of
MB> getting a rock through their picture window later on.
Yes some of what I have read from/about christianity over there is what
I would call the Old Testament on roller blades, or at the very least
speed, perhaps both.
The pain must run very deep, they are messing in the relms of self esteem
and identity. The scars left must be horrific, and merit the wrath of this
echo.
MB> On the other hand, there are Christians who deserve the hostility
MB> they receive here, given how fuckedup their views are. (see above)
Let us hope "As they sow so shall they reap" Not that that will be any
compensation to those who have suffered.
MB> It's a clear-cut case of a bunch of believers thinking that their
MB> sins aren't as bad as the next guy's.
I have come across this in England, sin can be an all together "fasionable"
concept, boundaries changing like hem-lines. Can't these people see that
they are being manipulated?
MB> "Sure, I am hostile toward
MB> gays, but look what they are DOING!" That sort of thing. As if I
MB> should care what somebody else does between the sheets, so long as
MB> they don't drag me into their bed, it's none of my business, the
MB> way I see it.
Secular society ought to be neutral, making laws if you will to protect
society, not Hijacked to any individual, or corporate group. It is up
to us to decide upon our own personal laws, set our own boundaries. Ask
others to respect them sure, but legislate them never!
NS> Moral "law" must be internalised to be effective, where as
NS> moral "law" externally enforced is next to useless, a blunt
NS> instrumnet. You could find a bad example of circumstances
NS> where an abortion has been performed. However, if this is
NS> used to ban all abortions, when faced with another example
NS> where an abortion is the right thing to do you have turned
NS> your intended good into evil.
MB> Of course, these people don't think there is ANY justification for
MB> an abortion. They actually think that a 12-year-old girl ought to
MB> carry her father's baby to term. We had one in here just recently
MB> that thought the 12-year-old ought to get the death penalty for
MB> having an abortion, even under those circumstances! They are a
MB> sick, uncompassionate, inhuman lot, in my estimation.
Agreed without reservation. So this hapless child is left abused by the
one person in her life who should affirm and protect her. Not only so
but to go on to make her the guilty party, and a DEATH! penalty. It makes
my blood boil.
It is a powerfull delusion, that such hard hearted attitudes can be
squared with a Christian faith.
NS> It must be left up to the indviduals, where the woman wants
NS> an abortion that's her choice, not a right though, to protect
NS> the Doctor who may prefer not to perform the surgery on his
NS> moral grounds. Should be possible to find another Doctor with
NS> another moral stance willing to perform the surgery.
MB> No doctor should be forced to perform any procedure. Doctor's are
MB> just as entitled to their ethical standards as the patient is.
Agreed
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
- Fido NetMail - (2:2501/217)
Caution! --------> Dyslexic Author - |||||||||||||||||
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 21 Feb 97 22:50:00
EID:c50c 2255b640
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org de8ad22e
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Norman Solomon <=-
MB> On (13 Feb 97) Norman Solomon babbled to Dan Ceppa...
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ken Young <=-
Hi Marilyn
KY> Yes, we create hunger.. Besides the fact that we are not obeying God,
DC> Too bad that your little books says you are wrong. It says
DC> that your god created _everything_.
NS> If you are refering to the bible, you are in error. You are not
NS> taking into account the time frame.
NS> God created everything and it was good, then man fell and creation was
NS> corupted as result. By all means argue with Ken, but if you are going
NS> to say the bible says.......then get it right.
MB> Check out Isaiah. Jehovah pounds his chest, sings three choruses
MB> of "Macho, Macho Man," and sez:
Don't over egg the mix :-)
MB> I form the light, and create darkness: I make
MB> peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
MB> things. Isaiah 45:7
MB> So, you see, Dan is correct.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)
Not quite, the time frame is key, this is post fall. Therefore one has
to
engage the "because" in Gen 3 making this Because *you* *I*
DC> So, your god didn't create everything. Seems like your book
DC> is wrong.
NS> All that seems to be at fault here is your ability to comprehend the
NS> biblical version of creation.
MB> Check it out. He even bragged about doing it. He took
MB> "credit" for creating evil, in the first person, yet.
Not evil, blessing or curse, "prosperity or disaster". That makes it
consistant with Gen 3. "Peace or evil" are not a logical pair, but that's
your speciality so look forward with great interest to hearing your view.
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: You forgot to answer this
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:24:00
EID:e167 2255bb00
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 4f2187dd
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Norman Solomon <=-
MB> On (13 Feb 97) Norman Solomon babbled to Marilyn Burge...
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Ken Young <=-
Hi Marilyn
KY> If there was no God, we would not be here.. Nothing would be,
KY> not even the concepts of mass and time..
MB> You are assuming your conclusion as part of your "evidence." It
MB> doesn't work that way. Please take a basic logic course before you
MB> get laughed clear outta here.
NS> Very sound advice, but to late methinks
MB> Some of us live with eternal hope, I guess. But, you're
MB> probably right. He's probably beyond intellectual redemption.
You may think that, I could'nt possible comment :-^)
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:28:00
EID:ab97 2255bb80
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 3ff91ed0
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Norman Solomon <=-
MB> On (14 Feb 97) Norman Solomon babbled to Anthony Grigor-scott...
Hi Marilyn
NS> Oh dear oh dear I'm saying nothing, but should call the fire
NS> service right away
AG> (3:711/933)
NS> ^----------->Does this indicate Australia? (anyone)
MB> Yes, Giggle-Snot is posting from Oz. He's one of "yours,"
MB> Norman. Live with it.
But, but Marilyn I'm English, am I to reep the condamnation of the
Colonies as well now. I'm wounded :'(
MB> Now you know why Christians take such a beating in here. It's
MB> Christ's representatives, not Christ Himself.
[cringe factor 8]
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:46:00
EID:2659 2255bdc0
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 5363d288
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Norman Solomon <=-
LB> Anthony and Norman were killing time yakking about Blavatsky?:
Hi Lynda
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NS> Oh please, an apostolic greeting, this had better be good
LB> Grigor-Snot is always good for a laugh.
So I see.
AG> The vision is for one man, but the fact is there are two. The
AG> "original sin" was adultery between Eve and the Serpent, a man-like
AG> creature before God changed every bone in his body. Cain is nowhere
in
AG> the genealogy of the human race. Neither are his descendants to this
AG> day.
NS> This is a joke, TELL ME THIS IS A JOKE!
LB> No....this is not a joke. HE on the other hand, IS.
Agreed.
LB> Ask him about the squirrels...go ahead. I dare you.
Squirrels? The mind boggles......I'll pass for now
NS> Which version of the bible are you using, to get it this wrong?
LB> :) why, he has the Good Prophet Braham to explain it all for him!!
I know I am going to regret this but...who?
AG> That's what the Bible commands. Nothing to do with color. Race! -
NS> I don't think so......By the way what "race" are you?
LB> Well, the mental institute where he lives has potato sack races every
LB> 3rd Saturday! Unfortunately, the squirrels ALWAYS beat the nuts.
That's awfully good Lynda, and I don't even have the squirrel angle yet.
NS> Well it's christianity jim, but not as we know it? Beam me up :-I
LB> I am happy to report that he is from Australia and not the US...and
LB> less happy to report that the grand poobah of his particular lunacy
DID
LB> hail from the US...
Thought it had to be down to your lot somehow
I thought it was sort of S.African
AG> (3:711/933)
NS> ^----------->Does this indicate Australia? (anyone)
LB> I'd tell you, but as a woman, i am forbidden to teach. ;)
Oh poor you, would you like a pattented "Penis Pack" only $19.95
and it *comes* fully loaded :-)
Well that should put some clear water between me and what passes for
Christianity in this echo.
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 17:16:00
EID:8647 22568a00
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org a980626c
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Norman Solomon <=-
Hi Lynda
NS> I just want to thank you for all the hard work that went into this and
NS> a number of posts in the same vien. As a christian myself it made
NS> painfull reading, but I entered this echo in search of Truth.
LB> :) I have always felt Holysmoke to be a place of truth for those
LB> openeyed enough to see it.
Yes I agree, but there seem to me to be "fundies" on both sides.
NS> At first, I thought that people were making up this stuff to discredit
NS> Christianity, but the evidence is overwhelming.
LB> That is the accusation that is often levied, but its out there. But
in
Do you think there is no justification at all for the accusation?
LB> a society where christianity it considered the default (i.e. we ASSUME
LB> people are christian, until they state otherwise, both here in the US
LB> and in England) the hard truths about what is done in the name of
LB> christianity is whitewashed. Its not considered 'nice' to bring it up.
'nice' or not, which ever side one finds oneself on, bring it up we must.
At the moment I am somewhat at a loss as to where to begin. Logic would
dictate at the root. Finding both root and means seems like a worthwhile
challenge.
NS> I hardly dare ask the question, but most of what I have read would
NS> seem to indicate that the problem is *almost* unique to the US. How
NS> far does it extend? Is it going on in England?
LB> The US has just about every stripe of christian, from the fundiest of
LB> fundys to the most liberal, and all shades in between. Is this sort
of
LB> thing going on in England? Probably. But you have a somewhat different
LB> society there, far more homogenous...I would dare say that people tend
LB> to be more alike there.You also have an official religion, which we
do
LB> not.
Is it that US society is so fractured, that quite small minorities, can
apply disproportionate pressure, and thereby wield power? Leaving large
sections feeling threatened but unable to organise themselves. A kind of
devide and rule if you will.
The Church of England (my local is 900 years old) is a strange combination
of class/christian driven sort of thing. The "volatile" middle class aspire
to leadership, but if they don't have the breeding they just can't get in,
no matter how much money they put in.
Some Bishops have seats in the House of Lord's (our upper house) and can
together with the Peers, there by right of birth or service to the
community, not pass legislation from the commons (our lower house).
Over the whole lot is The Queen as head of both state (president) and the
church (pope) [lower case intentional].
Elected members of the House of Commons, are open to preasure groups, and
can change laws govening society without much of a problem. However
religious preasure groups are faced by a whole raft of non-elected
officials, who are not up for re-election and operate wisely, rather than
expediantly.
LB> I will try to take a look and see what I can find on the Internet
LB> regarding recent instances..
Very kind of you, thanks.
LB>..historical cases of christian brutality
LB> in England are well known, probably more so by you, even, than by us.
Lets hope we can learn from history, and not repeat it.
NS> I have never come accross anything like it myself, and I have been a
NS> Christian for 18 years, all spent in England.
NS> I will be grateful for any posts from anyone on this subject, and hope
NS> people will not abuse my trust.
LB> :) Depends on what you mean by trust. You can trust Holysmokers to
LB> tell the truth, no matter how much it hurts. Don't trust that they will
LB> be gentle about it, or try to soften the blow. No one is extending that
LB> privilege here, and it would be misplaced trust on your part to expect
LB> it.
"Trust"...That the info is accurate. Don't worry about my feelings my faith
is based on personal experience, not belonging to a cult of any description.
LB> * TLX v4.10 * "Dyslexic Christian sells soul to Santa" ...News at 11
:-) Wrong Lynda is'nt it *Film* at 11
Very kind ofNorman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 02:06:00
EID:3c52 225610c0
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org a6640731
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Norman Solomon <=-
Hi Lynda
LB> Dan and Norman were killing time yakking about Exemplifying examples:
KY> Yes, we create hunger.. Besides the fact that we are not obeying God,
DC> Too bad that your little books says you are wrong. It says
DC> that your god created _everything_.
NS>
NS> If you are refering to the bible, you are in error. You are not
NS> taking into account the time frame.
NS> God created everything and it was good, then man fell and creation was
NS> corupted as result. By all means argue with Ken, but if you are going
NS> to say the bible says.......then get it right.
LB>
LB> Seems a pretty buggy creation, that the entire thing was corrupted by
LB> mankind simply tasting of the knowledge of good and evil (and isn't
LB> that odd? learning right from wrong is seen as corrupting?? Don't we
LB> call those who DON'T sociopaths?) Perhaps it was buggy all along, but
LB> in tasting that forbidden fruit we were able to SEE the bugs, eh?
I can only speculate, but the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, together
with the tree of life were both in the Garden. The deception may well
be in the area of taking it to soon, before they were really ready to handle
it. Perhaps a bit like a 5 year old taking the car keys and running a muck.
The serpent character lies, and says it God who is decieving them, and they
will become like God, they did'nt and we haven'nt. God would however by
virtue of being all knowning would have seen the outworking of this to the
end of time. Worth noticing the way back is posted as early as Gen 3:15.
DC> So, your god didn't create everything. Seems like your book
DC> is wrong.
NS> All that seems to be at fault here is your ability to comprehend the
NS> biblical version of creation.
LB> Do you hold it to be literal or metaphor?
Jury still out on literal, metaphor sure.
Norman
=======
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: KY fun
|Date: 22 Feb 97 17:20:00
EID:3c97 22568a80
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 594f599d
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Norman Solomon <=-
LB> Ken and Norman were killing time yakking about KY fun:
NS> Do you think he will ask his pastor to explain, must turn to something
NS> else or I'm gonna burn :-)))))
KY> Well, I figured it out.. Well, the possible reference to the state
I
KY> figured out, and a Discordian friend of mine told me the other meaning.
NS> But did you in the end see the funny side? Please tell me you did.
LB> He had to ask a Discordian in order to figure it out at all....and
LB> doesn't seem to see the humor in THAT...you tell ME if he thought it
LB> was funny? ;)
I think Martin, sussed him out, he may be very very young.
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 22 Feb 97 17:28:00
EID:c447 22568b80
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 59dddba5
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Norman Solomon <=-
DH> About a message of Norman Solomon to Marilyn Burge:
Hi Dave
NS> I am new to BBSing and was quite taken aback when I fixed into this
NS> echo and got all sorts of labels thrown at me because I said I was a
NS> Christian. It felt not unlike walking into a Jewish settlement and
NS> saying you were German, but being treated as though you were a Nazi.
NS> It comes across as a form of raceism. DYSWIM?
DH> When I arrived in this echo I identified myself as a non-affiliated
DH> left-wing Christian, and had no such welcome. That may be because from
DH> my posts it is fairly obvious that I have a strong allergic reaction
DH> to ignorance and bullshit. Eventually I abandoned the label.
Yes it has been a bit of an eye opener, Christians that post here in the
main seem to be of ignorant, bullshitting variety.
NS> We all fall short of the ideals we set
NS> ourselves.
DH> Of course. But many of us are tired of being told by self-appointed
DH> critics that our shortcomings will land us in eternal torment. Without
DH> the religious aspect, one simply revises the ideal or the attempt
DH> to reach it and carries on.
My own view is that Justification leads enevitable to Glorification, and
Sanctification stands alone.
NS> Moral "law" must be internalised to be effective, where as moral "law"
NS> externally enforced is next to useless, a blunt instrumnet.
DH> This is 100% opposed to the tenets of Pauline Christianity.
Where exactly?
DH> Good luck in the echo. Keep your asbestos shorts handy and I'm
DH> sure you will enjoy it.
I will, and thanks.
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: All
|Sub: Cross Posting???
|Date: 22 Feb 97 18:01:00
EID:625b 22569020
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 57fde0a7
Hi All
I would like some advice please.
I have discovered that I can post things I read in here to other
{Fido} echo's. Is this OK?
They would be local echo's (England), where I feel that they ought
to have an idea of what is going on in some sections of
"Christianity" in other parts of the world.
What are the rules?
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
- Fido NetMail - (2:2501/217)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:52:19
EID:1096 22576e80
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 1930badc
On (15 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to JIM STAAL...
JS> Yeah...I agree with the 'sicko' part.
LB> I want the URL, Jim. I'm almost guaranteeing it was a pro-life site.
Trust me, it wasn't. It was in a place I had no business being...
LB> to indicate that it was more than a death during birth? Feet
LB> first deliveries are lifethreatening to both baby and mother.
JS> No. The death blow to the head was not evident in the picture...
LB> Then it in no way backs up your assertion that it was accomplished as
LB> you describe.
No. I read the description of the procedure froma former abortion
clinic nurse who testified. I wish I still had it on my HD. I don't. :(
LB> You do understand don't you, that when abortions are done DURING a
LB> delivery it is only due to imminent death of the mother.
Evidnece????
JS> Not at all! It is the preferred method of late term abortion. Babies
LB> And WHY are late term abortions done, Jim? You're missing my point.
To get rid of unwanted baby, of course...
JS> carried to 8 and 9 months are very viable outside the womb and hence
JS> must be killed in this manner before they are completely born.
JS> Otherwise, it would be 'murder'. (sarcasm)
LB> When late term abortions are done, it is to save the life of the
LB> mother.
Evidence????
LB> Jim, I've heard a LOT of congressional testimony. I heard Ollie North
LB> lie to congress. I heard a lot of BS during the smoking testimony.
LB> I've heard snippets from the Commie Hunt testimony. What some
LB> prolifer decides to spew as propaganda before congress really doesn't
LB> mean much to me in terms of validity.
This was not Ollie North propaganda...
LB> What does the MEDICAL community say? What are the numbers of cases
LB> where this procedure has ACTUALLY been done, and what were the
LB> circumstances behind each.
I don't know...
... 8 of 10 Americans suffer from hemorrhoids. 2 enjoy them!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:56:05
EID:e080 22576f00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 849a1d69
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 170bbded
On (15 Feb 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
FR> In other words you did the smart thing and elected to shut your
FR> homophobic mouth before you got your ass in trouble, huh?
js> Not at all. My answer was clear: whatever it
js> is, I consider it to be quite meaningless.
FR> So meaningless, in fact, you elected not to quote your previous
FR> allusions of knowledge into exactly what I'm up to. So meaningless you
FR> decided not to quote your original assertions least anyone be reminded
FR> you recanted utterly.
I really don't care...
FR> Again, another wise move. You _can_ be trained.
I have been...
FR> Please feel free to speculate as to what it is you think I'm up to
FR> lately. I wouldn't recommend presenting your opinion as fact,
FR> however.
I really don't care...I am sure it would be 'useless information,
designed to try my imagination'...
FR> ~*~ Besides being wrong, he's probably a chicken shit too. - Kirby
FR> Nixon
FR> ---
FR> * Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop
FR> (1:218/890)
... *Origin: Jim Staal Ministries - (616) 532-1084 - No Nodes-had removed
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Alternate Personalities
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:58:18
EID:300e 22576f40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 ef248ef7
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 170bbdee
On (15 Feb 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
js> Hey, Putz-boy, let's list 'all those anti-Jewish hate rhetoric'
js> and trot em 'all' out here so we can take a look at them!
FR> Ah... Another denial of your alternate personalities, I see. No, you
FR> can't be held responsible for what your alternates say, right "Doctor"
FR> Staal? No, it wasn't _you_ who told Todd she deserved a bust in the
FR> mouth, it was one of your alternates, right "Doctor?"
Didn't say that and I have made no anti-Jewish remarks either (or
youwould have posted them)
FR> Your racist hatred and homophobic remarks are not worthy of being
FR> recorded in the quotes file. You must say something truely silly and
FR> hateful to rise above your typical shit level. In fact the only silly
FR> thing your "Mabon" personality said which was _not_ a racist,
FR> homophobic remark was:
FR> I am implying nothing, Luke. I am saying straight out he is the
FR> imbodiment of evil. Anti-God blasphemer. - Lon S. Mabon
FR> (HolySmoke)
Looks llike you got someething right...:)
FR> Your "The Jew is..." comments are not worthy of archiving.
FR> I would caution you, however, to keep mindful of the fact that since
FR> the begining of this year this forum _has_ and will continue to be
FR> archived fully and that you also keep in mind that we don't allow you
FR> to pretend your alternate personalities are responsible, not you.
FR> Further quotes about how "The Jew is..." _will_ be archived.
Provide one 'the jew is'?
I am a Fyvish Finkel fan, myself...
... I'm a licensed Smurf stomper!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:00:45
EID:904b 22577000
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2fcff365
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 170bbe02
On (15 Feb 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
js> i know of no 'death cult church'. (keep your namecalling
js> for the guy you see in the mirror in the morning)
FR> Eventually you'll be able to convince yourself, successfully ignoring
FR> all of your death cult's bloody and tyranical hustory and your own
FR> seething hatreds.
I have no seething hatreds and know of no 'death cult' in my history...
... MONEY TALKS ... but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: raising children for hell
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:01:57
EID:075a 22577020
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 4599dc0d
REPLY: 1:3603/210 34abdb3b
On (16 Feb 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
RC> with: Lynda Bustilloz
LB> And what happens if mom and dad lose their "faith status"
LB> before the kid hits the age of accountability (whenever
LB> that is) - is the kids salvation then revoked?
JS> There is no such thing as 'lose their faith status'.
RC> So "salvation" is automatically inherited and can never be lost?
No. Salvation is determined by God and can never be lost.
RC> Interesting doctrine you have there.
Yes and very Biblically correct.
... For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. (Matt 11:13)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:02:51
EID:ecaa 22577040
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 86e707a3
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 d5434461
On (16 Feb 97) Ed Mills wrote to Jim Staal...
EM> On (08 Feb 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Ed Mills...
FR> It's very easy to dial-up another BBS and post from it using any name
FR> one wishes. Jim was caught when he forgot to change the date and time
FR> of his computer or refrain from posting under the new alias long
FR> enough to throw suspicion off.
EM> So, is it Michigan or Oregon?
Michigan. And any contribution will be apprectiated:
Jim Staal Ministries
P.O. Box 171
Grandville, MI 49468-0171
And none of you wimps have even dared to drop a line. :)
... I was gonna be a hairdresser but neurosurgery pays better ...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:05:34
EID:e2b3 225770a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 12649916
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785f0
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Merely your opinion. The one that counts is God's and His is stated
JS> thusly: (Rom 3:23 NIV) for all have sinned and fall short of the
JS> glory of God,
SA> That sin is one passed down the generations, Jim. It is the
SA> "original" sin of Adam and Eve, at least from what I have seen. Tell
SA> me, if this is not true, what sins CAN babies commit that would
SA> account for Rom 3:23?;
Original sin' as you have so wisely stated.
SA> It is just as valid as you claiming that it is the status of the
SA> parent that determines whether or not an infant is sent to heaven or
SA> hell when it dies.
That's what the Bible says...
... Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your taglines!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:06:55
EID:6d5e 225770c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8a5dbd46
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785f1
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Rod Swift <=-
RS> Never had a chick nor boinked one.
JS> He was never married. Why would one who never sinned have sex
JS> outside of marriage?
SA> Why was he never married, Jim? It was expected by culture that
SA> everyone should be married by a certain age, which he had long since
SA> passed.
I could provide the scripture for you, Sue, but this computer doesn't
have my online bible on it, but, it wasn't necessary that He have
offspring...
... And they went out, and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:08:15
EID:b4d1 22577100
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2bad559e
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785f2
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> No, it will be the first. Not only the first actual one, but also
JS> the first documented one.
SA> OK...considering that the "official" counts of the previous ones
SA> were not up to 1 million, how can you be so sure that 1 million males
SA> will be in attendence at this event, considering it has not happened
SA> yet?
Because we're talking about dedicated Christians here. there will be
more than a million. I am going. I have already signed up for it. This
is not just a racial or political thing. we're talking about achristians
here. :)
... Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:09:54
EID:1726 22577120
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 fdc243dc
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785fa
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
LB> You do understand don't you, that when abortions are done DURING a
LB> delivery it is only due to imminent death of the mother.
JS> Not at all! It is the preferred method of late term abortion.
JS> Babies carried to 8 and 9 months are very viable outside the womb
JS> and hence must be killed in this manner before they are completely
JS> born. Otherwise, it would be 'murder'. (sarcasm)
LB> And in feet first deliveries, the baby is sometimes killed from
LB> using forceps to attempt to get them unstuck in what, as Juditthe congressional
committee?
SA> If they wanted to cause an abortion, Jim, why do they not just
SA> stick the forceps into the baby's head when they are in there turning
SA> the kid? The kid would die (as in the previous scenario), but could
SA> come out head first, and there would be a whole hell of a lot more
SA> room (respectively) to work. Also, as Lynda said...breach births are
SA> a
SA> danger to the mother as well. Why, if all they want to do is an
SA> abortion, would they deliver the kid in a very dangerous manner when
SA> it would be easier and safer to deliver the dead kid head first?
I don't know the 'why'. I am just telling you the 'how'.
... Charity envieth not. - 1 Corinthians 13:4
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:11:14
EID:9094 22577160
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 ad618ae9
On (17 Feb 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
>DR> ROTFL!
>DR> That =was= a joke, right?
JS> No. You know better than that, Dave[sic]... that is my
JS> reason to believe their were only two.
DR> Ah. This must be some new definition of "reason" that I am
DR> currently not aware of. I though the word meant:
DR> An underlying fact or cause that provides logical
DR> sense for a premise or an occurrence. The capacity
DR> for logical, rational, and analytic thought;
DR> intelligence. Good judgment; sound sense. A normal
DR> mental state; sanity.
I never said God works within 'logic'. :)
DR> You are therefore fooling yourself when you say you have a
DR> "reason" for your false belief. It is a factual,
DR> mathematical impossibility for there having been only two
DR> "original" human beings.
I have at least as much reason as you do for 'dragonfest'. (it sounds
like a fun time, however)
... Well, cover me with egg and flour and bake for 14 minutes...!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women? (guff!)
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:15:17
EID:488b 225771e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 94f4c916
On (17 Feb 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
JS> Lure? What are you using for bait?
DR> Now that you mention it, that's a good question. I have
DR> nothing of any value or worth to offer (heavey sigh).
Well, there is just being yourself. You really seem like a nice and
basically good person. It worked for me (Wilbur saw something good in
this gangly 6'7" person who was just 145lbs in 1964. A dorky dick-head
with ears in white jeans----outstanding ears)
JS> Judging from her .gifs she is hot...
DR> In reality she is very sweet and shy and bashful. She does
DR> not look like her .GIFs, though I haven't seen her wear
DR> her zebra PJs in person.
I am glad to hear that. She seems like a real person.
DR> She's definately a woman I will be
DR> avoiding this year....
Why????
JS> Don't know this Hawk Shadow...but 12 hours...,mercy!
DR> Hell, 12 hours is nothing when one has had no love or
DR> affection for 37 years. I'll be hinding from her, too.
How come?
>DR> Then go to bed alone.
JS> Hmmm...appears to be a pattern...
DR> Yeah. It's called "No cooperation from the women."
:)
JS> Express yourself, dude...
DR> I've been practicing a gospel song or two (unfortunately
DR> Jesus gets all the good tunes). There are a few sea
DR> chanties that would work, but this is a family-oriented
DR> Pagan festival.
Hmmm...Larry Norman wrote a classic Christina tune called 'why must the
devil have all the _good_ music'...many years ago...
JS> Ahhh...the bliss of celebacy...
DR> The agony of being repulsively ugly.
Nah...that is my bag. Every body wants the Lovely Wilbur [tm]and nobody
even expresses an interest in me. I am with you on the self esteem gig.
JS> Hmmm...I don't know about this sleeping alone thing.
JS> When the Lovely Wilbur [tm] isn't there...I get a bit
JS> scared in the dark.
DR> So she once told me.
Ahhh...you've called (616) 532-2455 a time or two. :)
DR> Sleeping alone is GREAT.
DR> one may fart when one pleases;
I do that. (don't pull up the covers)
DR> one may snore
Wilbur does that. I nudge her...
DR> no one to say nay; one may wake up three or four times a
DR> night to deurine without bothering anyone;
Similar problem...cruthes are a drag...
DR> one may eat
DR> dinner in bed and not have to pass the salt.
We do that! I hate the salt...feels like sand...
JS> That would wear a person out alright...
DR> It's the high altitude.
In Michigan?????
... Light bulbs don't emit light, they suck darkness ...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:26:42
EID:c861 22577340
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 30dee0fd
On (18 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to JIM STAAL...
LB> Jim and Sue were killing time yakking about Oops, Caught Again:
RS> Third "million-person assembly and march" moronic swamp-water
RS> sucker.
JS> No, it will be the first. Not only the first actual one, but also
JS> the first documented one.
LB> When is it, and are you going?
haven't gotten the factsyet. Will let you know.
... California Raisins murdered: cereal Killer suspected...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:27:26
EID:8d0a 22577360
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f330f740
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32F3F9CC
On (01 Feb 97) Jason Harmon wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Joseph Keenan <=-
JS> I know nothing of these 'fundies' of which you speak. I do know,
JS> however, that individuals who make claims of being the returned
JS> Messiah are no Christians.
JH> JS>
JS> (Mat 24:23 NIV) At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is
JS> the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
JH> JS>
JS> (Mat 24:24 NIV) For false Christs and false prophets will appear and
JS> perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that
JS> were possible.
JH> So what's gonna happen when Jesus comes back? You and your
JH> brethren going to kill him again?
I am neither jewish or roman...
... gaggaragglechunkssplashingupinyourfaceasyouembracetheporcelaingoddess
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:31:55
EID:2ff4 225773e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 b28c6bd6
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3305ce64
On (15 Feb 97) Richard Smith wrote to Rod Swift...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about Oops, Caught Again:
RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
RS> man march on Washington?
RS> JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is
RS> JS> organizing the first million
RS> JS> man march on Washington.
RS> Apparently Jimson never heard of last year's Million Man
RS> March on Washington. Or maybe he doesn't believe that
RS> blacks exist. How fucking clueless can one guy be?
Evidence of one million men? Other than the 'minister Farrakahn's'
boast?
... But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. (1 Cor 14:38)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Well, women? (guff!)
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:33:13
EID:cdc0 22577420
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8664b381
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3305d082
On (15 Feb 97) Richard Smith wrote to David Rice...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Jim Staal said to David Rice about Well, women? (guff!):
DR> Day #5, wake up alone and then attend ritual, workshops,
DR> and the Stone Soup, then sing "Nine Times a Night" at the
DR> talent show, then dream about having Starwyn, Hawk Shadow,
DR> and Melinda all in my tent for about 12 hours. Then go to
DR> bed alone.
RS> js> Hmmm...I don't know about this sleeping alone thing.
RS> js> When the Lovely Wilbur [tm] isn't there...I get a bit
RS> js> scared in the dark.
RS> Jimson not only justifying, but indicating he has marital
RS> affairs? LOL . . .
past affair.
... So...What's yer point!?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: the promise keepers 2/
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:34:01
EID:e606 22577440
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d7ce6803
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785f8
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Rod Swift...
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to Jim Staal <=-
RS> From OutNow, September 19, 1995:
SA> (...)
RS> On the surface, Promise Keepers would appear to have noble goals:
RS> for Christian males to become "men of integrity," to live their
RS> lives by Biblical values and to affirm their commitments to God,
RS> their families, and other men. There's certainly no shortage of
RS> men answering the call; the group claims that, last year, about
RS> 280,000 men participated in their seven regional gatherings. They
RS> hope to reach over half a million men this year at 13 events.
SA> (...)
SA> How in hell are they going to get 1 million men together, if they
SA> are only hoping to reach 500,000 men this year?
hey, we had 60,000 at the silver dome alone! There were many rallies
besides. Besides all that: we are talking about dedicated Christian men
here, not just an ethnic group.
... I will sing a dirge in your honor and wear your skin with pride.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:35:30
EID:aac3 22577460
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c839e96f
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785f9
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Rod Swift...
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to Jim Staal <=-
JS> Show me where I said that.
RS> You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
RS> Rod "...then again, you probably don't read them before posting,
RS> so why bother after?" Swift :)
SA> Actually, whether he does or not, he fervently hopes that YOU do
SA> not. That is why I made my suggestion to keep an archive of his posts
SA> if you want to go hunting Staal. He seems to forget that there are
SA> archives out there, and people who may get pissed off enough to use
SA> them.
See Fred. I hope the posts _are_ archived. Then my true wisdom will come
forth. :)
SA> I've been reading your posts to him. I presume you got a good
SA> deal on those AK-47's? Not my style for hunting, but it can be
SA> a
SA> pleasure to watch...
I rather prefer my Tech9, SigSaur, etc...
... But he that glorieth, let him glory in the lord. (2 Cor 10:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:38:54
EID:0ee0 225774c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 70b56731
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 3a98f9a9
On (17 Feb 97) Marilyn Burge wrote to Sue Alexander...
MB> I saw a guest editorial written by a woman that had one of
MB> these abortions, and she said that her fetus was aborted just
MB> as Staal describes. The reason was that the fetus had a VERY
MB> large head as a result of some kind of birth defect, and
MB> bringing it through the birth canal prior to greatly reducing
MB> its head would have killed her.
Hmmm...and yet the head _had_ to go through the birth canal to kill it.
What was gained?
MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
Nope.
... ... A shot of reality never hurt anyone ³ÄÄÄIJž²ž²žš=ÄÄÄÄ,
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:41:15
EID:cea5 22577520
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 087cc08c
On (19 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to DAVE HAMILTON...
LB> Lynda and Dave were killing time yakking about How to Attract Men
LB> (LOL!:
LB> And I think [Joe] was FAR more upset at being mistaken for
LB> Jim Staal than he was at being called a misogynist. ;)
DH> Yup. I would be. I can *defend* an accusation of misogyny.
LB> I don't blame you! A few months ago, when Jim was changing nicks with
LB> every message, a suspicion of BEING him would have been difficult to
LB> overcome.
When was this? Evidence??? A few months ago???? C'mon Lynda...get with
the program...it has been a year and a half...
'
... I was gonna be a hairdresser but neurosurgery pays better ...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:43:23
EID:3f61 22577560
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 10f5246d
On (22 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to NORMAN SOLOMON...
LB> Indeed. But in fundy-think, those mothers are sinful and the babies
LB> aren't, so she comes second. And if the baby croaks too, that's ok,
LB> because they are going to heaven anyway. Unless you're talking to Jim
LB> Staal - then the baby is going to hell if mama isn't saved.
And he is Biblically correct...
... But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only. - James 1:22
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 12:45:48
EID:3242 225865a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f271649d
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd6858
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 03-02-97 at 13:03, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Well, women?" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> FR> You are a Promisekeeper, mouthing off in hate.
JS> JS> Hmmmm...wherein do you find hate in the 7 promises of the Promise
JS> JS> Keepers [tm]?
JS> RS> In the same place that you can read:
JS> RS> "...to keep our families strong"
JS> RS> can you read the hate in":
JS> RS> "...to keep our race strong"
JS> Where do you find this?
JS> RS> It is the Promisekeeper's "our way, or no way" xenophobic
JS> RS> supremacism that is hateful.
JS> Where do you find this?
RS> From OutNow, Sept 19, 1995:
Well gee, (sarcasm drip on) _that_ certainly sounds like an unbiased
place to get info, alright...
... Before Abraham was, I am. - John 8:58
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 24 Feb 97 12:48:24
EID:d514 22586600
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 83c2cc7c
REPLY: 1:3603/210 34abdb3a
On (16 Feb 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
RC> JS>> I believe the Bible teaches that the salvation status
RC> JS>> of the infant is determined by the faith status of the
RC> JS>> parent(s).
DH> Hahahahaha! What utter, disgusting crap. Keep it up, Jim.
JS> What do you find disgusting?
RC> It seems rather obvious that he finds your belief disgusting,
RC> don't you think?
i was hoping for something a bit more specific...but I guess that is too
much to ask...
... Save burnt out lighttbulbs...I need them for my darkroom.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 12:49:42
EID:1726 22586620
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 e7b39bc3
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 330785fa
On (16 Feb 97) Sue Alexander wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> They do it purposely with forceps (turn the baby to breech) So that
JS> the head is the last thing to arrive. Didn't you follow the testimony
JS> on this before the congressional committee?
SA> If they wanted to cause an abortion, Jim, why do they not just
SA> stick the forceps into the baby's head when they are in there turning
SA> the kid? The kid would die (as in the previous scenario), but could
SA> come out head first, and there would be a whole hell of a lot more
SA> room (respectively) to work. Also, as Lynda said...breach births are
SA> a
SA> danger to the mother as well. Why, if all they want to do is an
SA> abortion, would they deliver the kid in a very dangerous manner when
SA> it would be easier and safer to deliver the dead kid head first?
Because then the child would be offically out of the womb (bonr and all
that) and then the 'law' would consider it murder.
SA> Methinks your story STINKS of urban legend.
Fact.
... Spiders are high in protein, but they tickle.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 24 Feb 97 12:51:37
EID:0956 22586660
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c09796f7
On (21 Feb 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Mark Kimes <=-
>MK> So how do your gods decide if an infant goes to
>MK> heaven or hell, Jimbo? A roll of the dice?
JS> Two things here: a. I do not have 'gods'. Just God[sic].
DR> Oh my god! And here I thought you were a Christian (i.e.
DR> you believed in the Yahweh, Jesus, Satan, and Holy Spook
DR> gods).
DR> Er, what god =DO= you have?
One God, three distinct persons.
... Stop running in circles or I'll nail yer other foot down.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:44:33
EID:2214 22587580
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 3ad1ca8b
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9d42
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Did they find the cult of Vernon was stockpiling TANKS? Or was
RS> it that they just had a year's supply of NOODLES to keep them
RS> going?
JS> None of the above.
RS> Of course not, simpleton.
I find it quite amusing that a giggly little girl such as yourself would
call
one such as I 'simpleton'. LOL!
... Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. - John 6:37
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:46:40
EID:688a 225875c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f0e3d743
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9df8
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Great skills than whom?
RS> Greater than yours, dear boy. :) You are a knuckledragging Taco
RS> Bell-ite :)
Interesting. You claim to possess this great knowledge about me and yet
we have never met.
JS> Try God's laws once.
RS> Why? You've failed to show any compelling reason to do so.
RS> And are you claiming that only simpletons are subject to God's
RS> law? :) :)
Where have I ever made such a claim?
JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz. But
to
JS> take what is declared wrong and say openly that it is right, I can't
JS> agree with.
RS> I don't mind what Christians do behind closed doors in church.
RS> It is their business. But when they take it out of the church
RS> and expose it to innocent children, it is *SICK SICK SICK*
JS> It is interesting to note here that you do not possess 10% of the grace
JS> I demonstrated in my statement. BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23 NIV)
JS> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
RS> Don't worry, I'm sure you will understand that none are innocent,
RS> and hence all those still born children, and all the unable to be
RS> reached by age or illiteracy or foreign culture are going to burn
RS> in HELLLLLL!!!
Not if they hae believing parents.
RS> Eat my weiner, Taco Bell boy! :)
No, not my bag. BTW, wht is with the 'taco bell' fixation?
... If any man love God, the same is known of him. (1 Cor 8:3)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:49:34
EID:a699 22587620
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8a1966a1
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9e72
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Let me guess, Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a US benevolent plan to
RS> provide free power and energy to those cities? :) :) After,
RS> that's the product of nuclear research :) :)
No. Theplan was to end WWII.
JS> RS> "the nazi commie rice-chowin' sombees"?
JS> Man you really are a bigot, aren't you? Who are you quoting here? It
JS> apparently is an original statement of yours.
RS> Actually, I strung words of yours together :)
No, you are a liar again. I don't recall using Nazi Commie and certainly
not 'rice-chowin'.
RS> Rod "...you moron, can't you recognise your own thoughts?" Swift :)
Finally a true statement about yourself...
... But love ye your enemies, and do good,... - Luke 6:35
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:51:51
EID:6214 22587660
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c42973bb
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9f66
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> How about abuse and violence on the part of the attendees?
RS> Already detailed in another post.
No, you did not.
... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being. - Acts 17:28
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:52:57
EID:baea 22587680
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d7f7e760
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9fa4
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Yes she is female (obviously) and no I do not bring men home.
RS> No. You screw them at the local gay baths, right? :) :)
I don't screw men.
JS> RS> You like three-in-bed sorta action, eh?
JS> I'm sure it is rather entertaining, but apparently you have more
JS> experience in that department than I.
RS> Actually, I have no experience in the department, to your
RS> apparent dismay :)
Then why did you bring it up?
... For the earth is the Lords, and the fullness thereof. (1 Cor 10:26)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Around the World in...
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:54:05
EID:5194 225876c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 177075b4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa05a
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> You know, you beef about 'in-your-face' Christians, but with your
JS> 'death-wish' crap about Lev 20:13, you appear to be one of those
JS> 'in-your-face' gay dudes typified by the 'gay guy in the fast food
JS> joint skit' I just saw last night on 'In Living Color'.
RS> The point in question is that I'm not in the face of people, but
RS> they are in mine...
I never have been.
RS> and I get rid of them equally as quick by a
RS> good debunking.
If whatyou do here and on the channel is any indication, I doubt that.
RS> You've been debunked by me so many times.
The first is yet to come...
RS> Yet you still come
RS> back and flaunt your heterosexuality,
Ha! There's a laugh. i don't even mention it (unless in rsponse to one
of your suggestions to sexuality). You're the 'hi, I'm _gay_' dude. Do
you ever look in the mirror?
RS> and display your arrogance,
RS> and even get high-and-mighty and say something about curtailing
RS> rights (or even lives) of .
Evidence??? When have said toyou anything about curtailling anyone's
'rights'?
RS> At that point, dear pointy-head, I take you to task and debunk
RS> you.
Again, it hasn't happened yet...
RS> How about the ProfitKeepers? :) :)
I know nothing of this 'profit keepers' you speak of...
... And they went out, and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:58:45
EID:baea 22587740
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 4b18e65e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa110
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Yeah? You got a problem with that? Anything particularly gay about
JS> that?
RS> Well, the fact that he loved one of his disciples. Read John :)
You got a problem with that? Anything particularly 'gay' about that?
JS> RS> No doubt he *recruited them* at an early age by "ritual".
JS> Incorrect. The 'recruitment' of the disciples is outlined in the
JS> Gospels.
RS> Oh yeah, and he probably fucked the one 'he loved', see John. :)
RS> :) :) :) :)
No evidence of it.
JS> RS> Had long nancy boy hair.
JS> Again, see above question..
RS> He has a big bushy beard too, right... :) :)
I have no idea...
JS> RS> Was a real weakling
JS> Evidence?
RS> Never stood up and enslaved women, minorities, etc. That's the
RS> sign of a weak Christian, right? :) :)
No.
JS> They do, eh? What more would gay men know about 'life tips' than
JS> straight men?
RS> We know a LOT more about tips for women. :) :)
Why? How?
RS> They confide in us more.
Why? How?
RS> We even sometimes go lookin' at guys :) :) *shock!*
So?
JS> RS> He was living the gaaaaay lifestyle, Jim. Deal with it.
JS> Interesting. You have listed all these things in a manner which
JS> suggests that you consider them degrading attributes.
RS> Only degrading to your belief system :)
No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner. All of the
things you listed (compassion, understanding, kindness) appear as
desireable attributes in any person, man or woman.
... He that doubteth is damned. - Romans 14:23
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:04:40
EID:62ce 22587880
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 a3d0569b
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa14e
On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
RS> man march on Washington?
JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is
JS> organizing the first million
JS> man march on Washington.
RS> Third, actually.
JS> First, actually, Aussie boy.
RS> Third "million-person assembly and march" moronic swamp-water
RS> sucker.
JS> No, it will be the first. Not only the first actual one, but also the
JS> first documented one.
RS> No, it will be the third behind the 1987 March on Washington, and
RS> the 1996 Million Man March.
RS> Third, dear boy, THIRD.
No, it will be the first. The others merely were imagined at that
figure. This will be actual.
... For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (1 Cor 13:9)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Steve just doesn't give
|Date: 24 Feb 97 20:42:48
EID:6547 2258a540
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330c4ebe
MSGID: 1:229/622 3311fe4c
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> Never do a nickel's worth of business with a zealot.
RS> Ah, I'd never do it out of principle. Why should I go and feed
RS> their family. They have a deity construct to feed them if they
RS> can't afford to live. And what humble pie it is... :)
As if there isn't enough cult sickness, this does underscore one
of the ironies. Imagine a sane person ripping someone off from
their hard-earned money, then proudly tossing 10% into the
collection plate. Can't imagine it? Me either.
I'm not sure if I've ever met a "serious" Christian who doesn't
regularly bullshit the god he believes in.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 24 Feb 97 20:48:02
EID:0948 2258a600
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330c4f38
MSGID: 1:229/622 33120004
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS> Rod "...maybe we should push the APA to examine the psychosis of
RS> religious *fundamentalism* and have it classified, especially
RS> given the recent spate of abortion clinic murderers.
RS> Pathological belief-system dysfunction, we could call it." Swift :)
It was actually proposed in the DSM-IV draft. In the second draft
it was still proposed as "fundamental cult attachment" by researchers
who work in the debriefing field. The treatment is exactly the same
as for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (Repetitive) and so are the
symptoms.
It got lumped in with PTSD-R, and then PTSD-R (sadly) got included
with PTSD. Colleagues of mine who work in a Provincial psychiatric
facility, some of whom were on the DSM-IV committee, diagnose
religious abuse and cult membership as Borderline Personality
Disorder for the record but treat it with the above techniques.
In this area there are several support groups for ex-fundies. Gives
one hope for the human condition.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 21:18:44
EID:5a82 2258aa40
MSGID: 1:229/622 331206dd
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of DAVID RICE to DAVE HAMILTON:
DR> -=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Ken Young <=-
>>> KY> Mankind brought disease in general to society,
>>> KY> world wide, by lowering the quality of life,
>>> KY> and by making decisions contrary to the word of
>>> KY> God[sic].
DR> Oh good grief! One would think that the "Disease
DR> equals sin" lie would have died out by now.
When I was diagnosed with ALS, a fundy neighbour used me
in a church service as an example of how god punishes
evil people. I was able to imagine how lepers felt when
they were exiled. And the sick thing was, going through
the process of accepting a terminal disease, I actually
wondered if this evil creature was right. That was
in 1989. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Information and Origin
|Date: 24 Feb 97 21:45:12
EID:163c 2258ada0
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75c38a16
MSGID: 1:229/622 33120c12
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
LA>> "Creationists today - at least the majority of their
LA>> spokesmen - are highly educated, intelligent people."(p.
LA>> 17).
MG> Just so I can drive the point home...
MG> R.olling
MG> O.n
MG> T.he
MG> F.loor
MG> L.aughing
R.ight
O.ut
T.o
F.ucking
L.unch
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: A "swiftie"!
|Date: 24 Feb 97 21:49:34
EID:53c5 2258ae20
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 895e3ced
MSGID: 1:229/622 33120d14
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Laurie Appleton to John Musselwhite:
LA> Clearly, as things stand, I can see you with a very
LA> large SHOVEL in the process of time!
He must have one now if he's still reading your posts.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:45:14
EID:df52 2258b5a0
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KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
And what do you think you will be when you discover you
are wrong?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 24 Feb 97 22:49:58
EID:d5c4 2258b620
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330e425e
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KY> Actually, I am very much against ecumenicalism.
We didn't doubt that for one second, what with your own
version of xtianity being the most true.
Were you in favor of ecumenicism you might discover
that Catholics are actual human beings that are NOT all
going to hell, and they might admit you to eternal paradise
even though you're not of the One True Church. Too bad.
As it is, you will have to fight it out for the real estate
and *somebody's* going to be wrong.
KY> I don't like being so repetitive,
Sure you do, Ken. That way you don't have to think or
confront your own ideas with a willingness to accept
truth.
KY> but we are here, therefore God must
KY> be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the idea
KY> that God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
It might be popular, but it's not logical.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:41:46
EID:9870 2258bd20
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KY> We could go on from there.. If you are against guns, don't buy one.
KY> If you are against militias, don't join one. If you are against
KY> Christianity, don't go to church. If you are against drugs, don't
KY> use any. It goes both ways.
Wow, you're catching on. Exactly. Did you miss church on Sunday?
KY> Nope.. Some psychology and so called scientific THEORIES disagree
KY> with me. No scientific fact disagrees with me at all.
And you were off to such a good start. Evolution, for instance,
IS a scientific fact. There are theories of how evolution occurs,
but it is a fact. In this regard reality disagrees with you.
KY> Well, why do gays want this right? Is it because they believe
KY> marriage is important, or is because of the benefits?
Why would you give a shit? When two heteros get married, do you
concern yourself with their motives?
KY> But hey, you
KY> have as much right as I do.. A gay man can marry a gay woman just as
KY> a heterosexual man can marry a heterosexual woman.. A heterosexual
KY> male couldn't marry another heterosexual male, either. See? No
KY> discrimination whatsoever. :)
Now you're starting to get disgusting again.
RS>> Remember Colorado Amendment 2?
KY> AH, but shouldn't something become law, if that is what the majority
KY> of the public truly wants?
Absolutely. Look to Afghanistan or Iran to see just what happens
when the majority allows religious laws.
And look to your own country to find out what's happening when
people do not. Then decide where you want to live. Or are you
against the majority allowing abortion or getting prayer out
of the educational system?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:11:06
EID:b19b 2258b960
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RS>> Nothing about vigilante militia though :)
KY> There is nothing that says it is for the state govts. to set up. And
KY> what vigilante militias are out there? If they were as violent and
KY> irrational as some claim, there would be a lot more violence then
KY> there is.
I guess Oklahoma City just wasn't violent enough for you, huh?
How much violence would be required for you to consider it
a problem?
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:43:42
EID:f39e 2258bd60
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MSGID: 1:229/622 331227ae
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KY> Science? Hmm.. You must have a weird definition of it..
KY> And all that percentage would prove if accurate, would be how few gays
KY> there are.
The _average_ estimate of the gay population is one in 10, Ken.
That's one gay out of every ten people. Next time you're in
church why don't you cast a slow gaze over the congregation
and ask yourself which ones are the gays?
Don't forget the females. And don't discount the married
folks; there are a LOT of gay people having torrid affairs
with married men or women.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:18:50
EID:f39e 2258ba40
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330fd4b0
MSGID: 1:229/622 33122237
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY> I hope you do get saved and see me in Heaven. And I promise not to
KY> even say "I told you so." :)
Has it occurred to your feeble mind that the entire notion of
heaven is impossible if it has you in it? Where did you ever
get the idea that anyone would want to spend eternity in a
place you inhabit?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:22:16
EID:785a 2258bac0
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KY> And while now, I don't think we could ever go back to prayer in
KY> school, there was a time when it was fine. Seemed to have worked
KY> fine. Kids were a lot more educated back then. But since we took
KY> prayer out of the schools, the students have been doing a lot worse.
Right. That's why today we have computers, food that lasts long
enough to feed us, diseases that can be cured, and the highest
life expectancy in history.
That YOU are poorly educated certainly does not imply that others
share your disability. If you must remain ignorant and be a
bloodsucker on the contributions of your intellectual betters,
at least do us the favor of allowing those who ARE interested
in acquiring an education to proceed.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:27:24
EID:3196 2258bb60
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330fd7e0
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JH>> And you're going to homeschool your children?!?! THIS is the reason
JH>> why many people are on here, buddy.[...]
KY> Keep in mind, I made it very clear it was a POSSIBILITY, not a fact.
At least the destruction will be limited to your own children.
Thankfully, the dedicated teachers in this forum have earned
their required degrees and practice professionally to maintain
their ability to teach MY children. I have taught university
students but I'm not dumb enough to think I'm qualified to
teach my own children.
KY> Besides, the sounds that some heard in the earth, was reported two
KY> different times by the mainstream media.
Cite them.
We think you're spreading evil ignorance and don't believe you.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSION
|Date: 24 Feb 97 23:33:30
EID:1492 2258bc20
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330fd954
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KY> The rumors about P&G being a front for Satanism likely are false.
Gee, d'ya think?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 21 Feb 97 21:20:04
EID:c7cc 2255aa80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330da104
* On 16-02-97 at 20:44, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the promise keepers" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift babbled to Jim Staal...
MB> RS> Let's look at that $65,000,000 budget. Let's say that each
MB> RS> full-time employee is on an average of $30,000 per annum.
MB> RS> That's $9.3 million in salaries. Given that it's shown that
MB> RS> stadiums cost under $0.5 million to hire, and they had 12
MB> RS> meetings, that's about $6 million for stadium facilities.
MB> You'd better back up a notch. Generally speaking, you have to
MB> add about 30 percent to the stated salary to pay for the
MB> employer's share of health benefits, unemployment insurance,
MB> the employer's share of Social Security, overhead costs such
MB> as office equipment, space rent, etc. and other items.
But I was only talking raw salary figures. I was expecting to
add about 50% to it for administration costs. Thanks for the
about 1/3 figure.
MB> While I agree in principle with what you are saying, their
MB> "take" is still lower than you characterize. Add $3 million
MB> to your $9.3 million, and you're closer to the actual cost
MB> of the payroll.
Payroll is still $9.3 million. Administration costs, benefits,
etc are about $3 million more. Still, making it a rounded out
$13 million figure, you add the $6 million for facilities rental
and you get $19 million.
So, where does the other $100 million of their $125 million
(1996 figures) go each year? Yes, The PromiseKeepers should be
renamed the "ProfitKeepers" :)
Rod "...either way, the amount they make is more than $50 on each
$65 ticket sold at an event" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then what are you doing about TOBACCO?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 21 Feb 97 21:22:06
EID:c455 2255aac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330da17e
* On 15-02-97 at 09:28, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> rods> Just because I have greater research skills in this
RS> rods> ever-shrinking technopolis does not mean that you
RS> rods> cannot claim ignorance to the fact I also can
RS> rods> analyse laws and statutes. :)
RS> JS> Great skills than whom?
RS> There's Mr. Erudite in action . . .
I just love how, for Jim, knuckledragging is synonymous with
being erudite.
RS> rods> You must remember, Jim, I spend half the time in the
RS> rods> US :)
RS> JS> Which half?
RS> I think Jimson wants a date.
Yes, well, it was Steingrobe, now it's Staal. Have these
JS-initialled Christians got a thing for "getting Satan behind
thee"? :) :)
RS> rods> Given you have 10% of a brain
RS> Now you're being overly optimistic . . .
Thanks :) I try to always err conservatively on estimates.
RS> JS> It would be interesting to see you provide physical
RS> JS> evidence for this claim.
RS> Yeah, I would too. Care to rip out his brain and show it to
RS> us, Rod?
I'm sorry, my microscope doesn't have the magnification.
Rod "...we'll need one with a much higher magnitude" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Does killing time damage eternity?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:12:08
EID:4e20 2255b980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dbb48
* On 15-02-97 at 09:43, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> RodS> In the fact it is perjorative.
RS> js> Perjorative is a noun.
RS> RodS> You so sure, Mr Erudite?
RS> js> Yes.
RS> LOL . . . `perjorative' doesn't exist, it is instead spelled
RS> pejorative, according to the American Heritage Dictionary,
RS> so already Staalin is incorrect.
Not that he copied my deliberate misspelling. Not that he copied
this misspelling after referring to a dictionary to determine
that it was *only* a noun and not an *adjective* as I claimed it
was *both* :)
RS> Is it a noun? Can one
RS> pick it up, shake it, show it to others?
You have a poor definition of noun. :) Nouns are visible and
tangible are they? :) :) God is a noun :)
RS> Not according to
RS> the American Heritage Dictionary again, which clearly shows
RS> that it is an adjective (Jimson: an adjective modifies a
RS> noun):
RS> pejorative (pi-jor'uh-tiv, -jahr-,
RS> pej'uh-rAYtiv)
RS> --adjective
RS> Tending to make or become worse; disparaging or downgrading.
RS> [< Lat. pejor, worse]
RS> So, Jimson's new record is to be wrong TWICE in one word.
RS> Amazing.
Actually, my dictionary shows it as an adjective *and* a noun :)
:) Jimson's claim it was *only* a noun (and his denial that it
was an adjective) contradicts this :)
pe.jo.ra.tive
1. adj. (of words, expressions, etc.) having an
unpleasant or disparaging connotation.
2. n. a pejorative word, etc.
-- adv. pe.jo.ra.tive.ly
RS> RodS> Isn't saying "gook" in the context you claim the same
RS> RodS> as saying: "Those people speak 'nigger'"? That is,
RS> RodS> still perjorative?
RS> js> No. I would say the black dude spoke 'jive'.
RS> Lovely bit of stereotyping here.
Strange, I thought African Americans spoke English, with
bastardisations and slang added in like *most* regional or ethnic
dialect additions occur.
RS> RodS> Do Germans speak "kraut"?
RS> js> I think they eat the stuff. I know nothing of their
RS> js> speech.
RS> And here.
Ayup-yup-yup. He's just probably a sour kraut, er, hollandaiser :)
RS> RodS> Do Russians speak "commie"?
RS> js> Ask Herr Doktor Liepzig
RS> Avoidance.
He wasn't tempted to say "red menace sombees" :) How odd that he
should avoid it so honestly :)
RS> RodS> Please, Mr Erudite, tell us of your language skills :)
RS> js> I was an English major in college.
RS> And the entire English-Speaking World should thank whatever
RS> Deity they believe in (or not) that he flunked out.
He should be proud that he takes such an interest in dialectic
difference in English language.
Hey, I'll chip in some funding so Jimson can take a course in
Ebonics and claim to be a "major in Ebonics" :) :)
RS> RodS> Hey, and aren't you an English language major? You should know
RS> RodS> should know better.
RS> js> Better than what?
RS> Duh . . .
Isn't he just such a "duh" though :) :)
RS> RodS> Better than using demeaning and racially-charged
RS> RodS> connotative terms when there are denotative words
RS> RodS> that would suffice:
RS> js> Apparently you do not know better.
RS> js> (see your disgusting rants above)
RS> Amazing. An `IS NOT!' combined with an 'I know you are, but
RS> what am I?' Who would have thought it possible?
Most sentient beings ;)
RS> How dare you point out his many errors. You cad.
Oh my, did I expose all his foibles at once in one simple
sentence? I think next time I should try one at a time, so
Jimson can actually answer them all, rather than going into heavy
denial.
Maybe Sue is right... I'm shooting at him too well, and he's not
even bothering to dodge the boogers anymore :) :)
RS> js> Perjorative is a noun.
RS> RodS> Are you so sure?
RS> js> Yes.
RS> And he still continues the lies . . .
He forgets it is an adjective too :)
RS> Jimson is the perfect spokesperson for Xtianity. Stupid,
RS> dense, and vane to a fault.
Ah... a post-natal abortion poster child :) All he need do is
shoot up an abortion clinic somewhere :)
Rod "...but of course" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Here fundie, fundie, fundie... Nice fundie... *whomp!*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:26:10
EID:fa23 2255bb40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dbe92
* On 15-02-97 at 09:55, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
RS> RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
RS> RS> man march on Washington?
RS> JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is
RS> JS> organizing the first million
RS> JS> man march on Washington.
RS> Apparently Jimson never heard of last year's Million Man
RS> March on Washington. Or maybe he doesn't believe that
RS> blacks exist. How fucking clueless can one guy be?
Too clueless. Remember, he'd rather be back in the sixties where
the only "coloured" people were Amos and Andy, and they knew
their "place".
I'm surprised that Jim hasn't stated this clearly, yet, as we
all know his views on Jews :)
His views on Jews is askew due to the few of the views of the
anti-Jew cuckoos who skew what's true about Jews so the coup
continues by the few, yet new, anti-semetic prudes who aren't
shrewd, and the cycle renewed of the hate that's endured.
RS> RodS> Third, actually.
RS> JS> First, actually, Aussie boy.
RS> RodS> Third "million-person assembly and march" moronic
RS> RodS> swamp-water sucker.
RS> JS> No, it will be the first. Not only the first actual one,
RS> JS> but also the first documented one.
RS> LOL . . . STILL clueless . . .
Yes, 100% clueless.
[Valley Girl mode on]
What-EVER!
[mode off]
He's yet to realise that there was a March on Washington in 1987
and one in 1993 by gay people, and one of men of colour last year.
Jim probably thinks that since those people aren't "in their place"
they are just radicals and their achievements and struggles can be
ignored. In fact, I'm surprised he has not yet espoused the view
that "if they just climed back in the closet" or "if they just
took their place at the back of the bus" then each of the
aforementioned groups would be able to get a few scraps thrown to
them from the WASPs who would be the only people remaining
sitting 'round the table of human rights.
We could be like Oliver: "Please sir, more"...
Or just beg like dogs, because that's all they would wish us to
be if we were to not stand up for our humanity.
I dare Jim to yet again say gay people are "equal" in the US
under the current *interpretation* and *administration* of the
law -- as opposed to ideological claptrap contained in the
precursory comments to the Declaration of Independence...
Rod "...Jim is like that..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:27:12
EID:ffc1 2255bb60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dbed0
* On 16-02-97 at 14:22, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> -=> Quoting Rod Swift to Sue Alexander <=-
SA> RS>> Who got his scalp last time?
SA> SA> If I remember correctly, I did. But you got him to do it
more
SA> SA> often, which is very worthy of note!!
SA> RS> Apparently he's come out of the confessional, so to speak, and
SA> RS> now talks to others, multiple-times!
SA> RS> It's no fair!
SA> RS> Rod "... he was the Holysmoke 5-of-a-kind!" Swift :)
SA> It appears that YOU were the one to (at least temporarily) drag
him
SA> out from behind his auto-posts. Congratulations! To have annoyed him
SA> to the point of having him respond to other people is a HIGH
SA> accomplishment....
I think I've annoyed him to the point where he NO LONGER POSTS.
While some would call this a victory, I find it sad. Now I have
only one target -- Jimson.
Rod "... I fear I'll break him" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: the promise keepers 2/
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:28:14
EID:1319 2255bb80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dbf0e
* On 16-02-97 at 14:29, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the promise keepers" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> (...)
SA> RS> On the surface, Promise Keepers would appear to have noble goals:
SA> RS> for Christian males to become "men of integrity," to live their
SA> RS> lives by Biblical values and to affirm their commitments to God,
SA> RS> their families, and other men. There's certainly no shortage of
SA> RS> men answering the call; the group claims that, last year, about
SA> RS> 280,000 men participated in their seven regional gatherings. They
SA> RS> hope to reach over half a million men this year at 13 events.
SA> (...)
SA> How in hell are they going to get 1 million men together, if they
SA> are only hoping to reach 500,000 men this year?
SA> Enquiring minds want to know.
Why, they will bring their wives, dressed in fake beards, a la
"Life of Brian"...
Rod "...Are there any women here? No no no... *ahem* No! no!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheism: A non-prophet organisation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:31:16
EID:c877 2255bbe0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dbfc4
* On 16-02-97 at 14:49, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> -=> Quoting Rod Swift to Jim Staal <=-
SA> JS> Show me where I said that.
SA> RS> You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
SA> RS> Rod "...then again, you probably don't read them before posting,
SA> RS> so why bother after?" Swift :)
SA> Actually, whether he does or not, he fervently hopes that YOU do not.
I've dealt with fundies too long to know that one must read their
message about three times, and use the secret lesbian decoder
ring, to understand and completely dissect their posts. :)
SA> That is why I made my suggestion to keep an archive of his posts
SA> if you want to go hunting Staal. He seems to forget that there are
SA> archives out there, and people who may get pissed off enough to use
SA> them.
Brother Fredric is creating archives :) If I ever need all of
the stuff to and from Staal, I'm sure I can request it :)
But it's nice to know that his pathetic words are being logged :)
SA> I've been reading your posts to him. I presume you got a good
deal
SA> on those AK-47's?
Oh, yes, I bought them off a kkkomrade of mine, one of those
kommie sombees that Jim says we should be shootin'! *yahoooo!* :)
It was that, or one of those "ex-Gook" (Jimbozo's terminology)
weapons that I can find that have been nicely reconditioned since
the Vietnam war :)
SA> Not my style for hunting, but it can be a pleasure to watch...
But of course. You should see my special "flesh weapon". :)
Rod "...It's a winner, gets him every time" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any milk can make cheese. Here, have some gerbil cheese.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:33:18
EID:b070 2255bc20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dc03e
* On 17-02-97 at 15:30, MARK O'NEILL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 P" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> DR>> Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for
the
MO> DR>> first heaven and the first earth were passed
away;
MO> DR>> and there was no more sea.
MO> RS> Oh, well, what a bitch that will be. We will all get to heaven,
MO> RS> and find there is no drinking water.
MO> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub there.
;-)
Of course, and the philosophy of Hell(tm) is a much better idea
anyway. Who'd want to be in Ned-Flanders-ville when you can be
with all the fornicators, drunkards, idolaters, gays, and
generally *excellent* non-Christians in Hell.
Why, hell sounds like a delectable 24-hour-a-day, eternal party!
Rod "...sounds too much like fun!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: I used to be indecisive; am I sure?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Ski Canada -- In the sum
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:35:20
EID:aaf4 2255bc60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dc0b8
* On 17-02-97 at 14:04, DAVID WORRELL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ski Canada -- In the sum" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> DW>> You do realize how easily they could be retargeted on a
DW> DW>> certain silly little island country in the southern
DW> DW>> hemisphere, don't you?
DW> RS> Destroying Pine Gap, and North West Cape, would be a silly move
DW> RS> for the US :) :)
DW> Whatever gave you the impression that American foreign
DW> policy was anything other than a collection of "silly
DW> moves?" :)
Oh, the fact that they are silly policy moves? :)
Rod "...after all, you send us all your ships for shore leave if
they are serving in the Indian Ocean or the South West Pacific.
We even have two ships in town here in Perth right now. Can't
wait to get down there and adopt my new policy. It's called
'Tell, and ask'!! :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Radiometric Nonsense!
|Date: 21 Feb 97 23:36:24
EID:2b70 2255bc80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330dc0f8
* On 19-02-97 at 10:19, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Radiometric Nonsense!" in echo C_Vs_E:
LA> RS> Since you claim it's been provided before, you should have no
LA> RS> problem giving me a copy of the manifesto?
LA> Well, I really think that evolutionist Richard Dawkins has
LA> summed it up beautifully when he said;
This is not the manifesto. Please provide the thesis on which
CREATIONISM is conclusively proven.
Rod "... you failed to answer the question. Please do so." Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: BOERNE V FLORES Report 1
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:31:30
EID:a497 22564be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e4c72
12:32 AM ET 02/19/97
U.S. High Court to hear religious freedom law case
By James Vicini
WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The Supreme Court will hear arguments
Wednesday in an important constitutional challenge to
a 1993 federal law that created greater protection from
government regulation for the exercise of religious rights.
The justices will consider whether Congress overstepped its
legislative authority in adopting the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act, a measure which President Clinton strongly
supported and signed into law.
The law prevents federal, state and local governments from
placing a substantial burden on the exercise of a sincere
religious practice. The government must cite a ``a compelling
interest'' to justify the regulation and must adopt the least
restrictive means possible.
The law was aimed at encouraging governments to accommodate
religious practices. The standard set by the law created a much
higher hurdle for government regulation than what the Supreme
Court decided in a controversial 1990 ruling.
The parties challenging the law said Congress had no
authority to adopt a measure governing local claims about
religion. They charged the law also dictates to the states to
accommodate religion more than what the Constitution requires.
Besides important church-state issues, the case also raises
profound questions about federalism and the separation of powers
between the various branches of government.
The case arose after Boerne, Texas denied an application
from a Catholic archbishop for a permit to expand a church
because of its location within the city's historic district.
Citing a large increase in parishioners, the church said it
would be unable to accomplish its mission and survive as a
parish church unless it expanded.
The archbishop sued, claiming denial of the construction
permit violated the 1993 law. The city replied that the law was
unconstitutional.
A federal judge struck down the law, but a U.S. appeals
court upheld it as constitutional, resulting in the city
appealing to the Supreme Court.
The Clinton Justice Department strongly defended the law,
saying it protects the First Amendment rights for the free
exercise of minority religions and deters governmental
violations of religious rights.
The law ``ensures that minority, unpopular and emerging
faiths enjoy the same freedom as religious adherents who possess
the political means to obtain legislative exemptions from
burdensome laws,'' Acting Solicitor General Walter Dellinger
said.
A coalition of more than 60 religious and civil liberties
groups also voiced support for the law.
``Accommodation under (the law) is available to all
religious practitioners, without regard to their size or
political clout. (It) treats all religions equally,'' they said
in a court brief filed with the high court.
But a group of 16 state attorney generals complained the law
has been abused by prisoners who have demanded special food,
clothing and other privileges by claiming it was part of their
religious beliefs.
After the arguments, the justices will take the case under
advisement, with a decision by the end of June.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: BOERNE V FLORES Report 2
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:31:34
EID:a5d7 22564be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e4c76
01:35 PM ET 02/19/97
U.S. High Court hears religious freedom law case
(Recasts, new throughout)
By Robert Green
WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The Supreme Court Wednesday was asked
to decide whether a 1993 federal law protecting religious
freedom violated the constitutional separation of church and
state.
The arguments came in a challenge to the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act, a measure which President Clinton strongly
supported and signed into law.
The law prevents federal, state and local governments from
restricting religious practices unless they can prove a
''compelling interest'' to justify their actions. Even then,
they must adopt the least restrictive means possible.
The case arose after the city of Boerne, Texas, near San
Antonio, denied a permit to expand a Catholic church because it
was within the city's historic district. The archbishop sued,
claiming denial of the construction permit violated the law but
the city said the law was unconstitutional.
A federal judge struck down the law, but a U.S. appeals
court upheld it, leading to an appeal to the Supreme Court.
Arguing for the city, Marci Hamilton said the law shifted
the balance of power between church and state in favor of
religious groups. ``This case is not about religious freedom.
This case is about federal power,'' she said.
Ohio State Solicitor Jeffrey Sutton also urged the court to
strike down the law, saying, ``It creates a new standard of
review.'' He said the states rather than Congress should and
would protect religious rights.
But Douglas Laycock, arguing for the church, said the court
should uphold the law. ``Congress has always understood it has
the right to protect constitutional rights,'' he said.
U.S. Solicitor General Walter Dellinger also supported the
law, saying it was needed to protect the rights of minority
religious groups that are often treated less favorably than more
popular religions.
The justices peppered all four attorneys with questions but
gave no clear indication how they might rule. Justice Sandra Day
O'Connor questioned whether the law could be used by prisoners
who might claim that smoking marijana in jail was part of their
religious beliefs.
Justice John Paul Stevens added, ``I'm not sure we know what
compelling interest means.''
Justice Anthony Kennedy said the law could affect how zoning
regulations, safety rules and tax exemptions applied to
religious organizations.
The nine justices are expected to decide the case by the end
of June.
Besides important church-state issues, the case also raised
profound questions about federalism and the separation of powers
between the various branches of government.
The First Amendment to the Constitution says Congress shall
make make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion and
can not establish one religion for the nation.
A coalition of more than 60 religious and civil liberties
groups urged that the law be upheld in a brief to the court.
''Accommodation under (the law) is available to all religious
practitioners, without regard to their size or political clout.
(It) treats all religions equally,'' they said.
But a group of 16 state attorneys general complained the law
has been abused by prisoners demanding special food, clothing
and other privileges by claiming it was part of their religious
beliefs.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:45:38
EID:c455 22564da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e4fc2
* On 15-02-97 at 09:33, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about My Summer Weekend:
RS> RodS> Given you have 10% of a brain
RS> JS> It would be interesting to see you provide physical
RS> JS> evidence for this claim.
RS> Okay, let's get those instruments sterilized and call in the
RS> amateur trepanning team of Worrell, Hitt, Goldberg, and
RS> Martin. Get our drill specialist, Leipzig, on the phone.
RS> Will we need anaesthesia? Probably not, not enough of a
RS> brainstem to allow for that. Still, the Rice brothers and
RS> Ceppa can stand by with their mallets in case the patient
RS> tries to get up. Everyone ready? Hold all calls, this
RS> should take a couple of minutes . . .
RS> Harpies can, of course, forage for any bits they wish.
Rod "...hahahahah, FAQ this baby!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Around the World in...
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:49:40
EID:d220 22564e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e50b4
* On 15-02-97 at 09:51, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Around the World in..." in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is
RS> js> useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training
RS> js> in righteousness,
RS> RodS> It's undeniable that the bible is becoming more and
RS> RodS> more of an outdated document with less and less
RS> RodS> relevance for today's society. I foresee the day when
RS> RodS> it will no longer be used as a guide book to life, more
RS> RodS> as a mythbook to be laughed at.
RS> js> Have you _ever read the New Testament? Pauline books in
RS> js> particular?
RS> RodS> Yes, I have.
RS> See? Rod has answered Jimson's question.
Correct. And I pointed this out to him.
RS> RodS> Have you read a science text book, Jim? It's a start
RS> RodS> to the discovery that the Bible is no longer relevant.
RS> And here he asks a question of his own.
RS> js> Typical of you, Rod. Can't answer the question so skirt
RS> js> around it by bringing in irrelevant tangents.
RS> LOL . . . and here is Jim denying that his question was
RS> answered, and (in refusing to answer Rod's question)
RS> bringing in (to use his words) irrelevant tangents.
RS> Hector's Law in action.
But of course, what else could we expect from him? If you read
any Christanic fundy post, you'll find them littered with these
types of misnomers, or just plain-as-day lying!
RS> js> I dont think so: (Mat 24:35 NIV) Heaven and earth will
RS> js> pass away, but my words will never pass away.
RS> RodS> Oh, I'm sure Leviticus 20:13 has not passed away... Just
RS> RodS> out of sight... It's one of those inconveeeenient
RS> RodS> scriptural passages that you salad-bar,
RS> RodS> choose-your-own-salvation pick-and-choose Christians
RS> RodS> like to no longer enforce :)
RS> js> You know, you beef about 'in-your-face' Christians, but
RS> Where?
Exactly, I never did... :) I beef about holier-than-thou
assholes -- whether they be Christian or not :)
RS> js> with your 'death-wish' crap about Lev 20:13, you appear
RS> Huh?
Well, I was daring him to kill a fag for Jeeezus, like his bible
says to do. I wasn't suggesting myself, but hey, he is only
trying to reword what I said -- which is typical Christian Tactic
#21.
RS> js> to be one of those 'in-your-face' gay dudes typified by
RS> js> the 'gay guy in the fast food joint skit' I just saw
RS> js> last night on 'In Living Color'.
RS> Jimson should call Ken Young. They apparently both take as
RS> scripture teleision shows . . .
He also speaks shit, and likes to false witness an opponent
*deliberately* to try and take the heat out of the questioning
they are getting.
He's just like Steingrobe for that.
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:04:42
EID:2518 22565080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e543a
* On 16-02-97 at 13:11, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
SA> RS> Never had a chick nor boinked one.
SA> JS> He was never married. Why would one who never sinned have sex
SA> JS> outside of marriage?
SA> Why was he never married, Jim? It was expected by culture that
SA> everyone should be married by a certain age, which he had long since
SA> passed.
He was never married because back then he couldn't marry his gay
lover, you know, the one that is mentioned a lot in John :)
The one in:
JOHN 13:23-25
JOHN 20:2
JOHN 21:20-22
If Jesus loves everyone, why does he specifically target, of all his
disciples, one that is said "he loved" among the disciples?
Rod "...and that's just on a cursory glance" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * REALITY.SYS corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Davidian Christians
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:06:44
EID:990c 225650c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e54b4
* On 17-02-97 at 04:24, DAVID WORRELL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "The Davidian Christians" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> FR> Really I'm finding it hard to find a reason to wipe out the Davidians.
DW> FR> A legal reason, that is. Yet I can't escape the conclusion that
the
DW> FR> FBI and BATF and Janet Reno are guilty of deliberate murder. If
the
DW> FR> Davidians were rapeing children illegally, that would be just cause
I
DW> FR> think for executing the rapists. Problem was there didn't seem
to be
DW> FR> any rape and, if there was, it seems to have been legally permitted
--
DW> FR> even though CPS investigated several times.
DW> It might be possible to build a case for negligent homicide
DW> against whoever was directly in charge of that clusterfuck.
DW> Maybe.
DW> However, once you find yourself on the wrong end of a
DW> standoff with law enforcement there are only two possible
DW> outcomes. You either surrender and present your case in
DW> court, or you die. The Davidians chose, for whatever
DW> reason, the second option. I can't bring myself to muster
DW> too much sympathy for them.
That is true. If they were on the street resisting arrest, and
pointing guns at cops, Constable Care would have pulled the
trigger if there was any hint of a gun being fired.
Rod "...and the Davidians did kill a few agents who did try to
raid at the start of the stand-off" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * First rule of intelligent tinkering: Save all the parts
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boyco
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:08:46
EID:0f26 22565100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e552e
* On 17-02-97 at 12:22, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Re: Cracker Barrel boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
DG> DC> How many xian sects have an openly gay minister?
DG> Hopefully, as few as possible, since homosexuality is a sin according
to the
DG> Bible.
Actually, homosexual sexual acts are a "sin", (and then,
that is even debatable), not homosexual sexual orientations.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:10:48
EID:49af 22565140
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e55a8
* On 16-02-97 at 17:45, ROGER HUNTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> RH> Because Christians are harmful to others and are Christians by
RH> RH> choice.
RH> RH> Homosexuality is neither.
RH> KY> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
RH> As a percentage, I would guess the gays are lower in violent
RH> behavior than straights.
We are starting to learn self-defense. However, we've yet to
resort to going around in gangs and senselessly bashing innocent
straight people.
I don't think we ever will, come to think of it :)
RH> KY> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
RH> Not according to anyone who actually KNOWS anything about it
RH> as opposed to those who recite dogmas without evidential foundation.
I gave Ken the evidentiary foundation for sexual orientation
being an innate, unchosen factor of human existence. I note he's
stuck his fingers firmly in his ears and is screaming "IS
NOT!!!!" very loudly -- a case of denial.
RH> KY> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.
RH> ROTFL! Burn darling, burn!
RH> You really are sick.
I'm looking forward to hell, because Jesus loves me. It'll
really help. NOT!
Rod "...and if Jesus loves me, why does he never send flowers?"
Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Re: Websites Etc.
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:14:50
EID:75a7 225651c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e569a
* On 15-02-97 at 08:47, RICHARD SMITH wrote to DARRYL GONZALEZ,
on the topic of "Re: Websites Etc." in echo Holysmoke:
RS> dg> First of all, God
RS> Which God?
RS> dg> deplores homosexuality,
RS> Then why did it make so many?
RS> dg> calling it a sin and an
RS> dg> abomination at various places in the Bible.
RS> Really? I couldn't find that many . . .
RS> For instance, this passage is usually used to condemn
RS> homosexuality, but I couldn't find homosexuality mentioned.
RS> Indeed, the part most likely to be what you're
RS> _interpreting_ to mean homosexuality, "nor effeminate, nor
RS> abusers of themselves with mankind," could easily apply to
RS> heterosexual females. No blatant homosexuality here:
RS> 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall
RS> not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not
RS> deceived: neither fornicators, nor
RS> idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
RS> effeminate, nor abusers of themselves
RS> with mankind,
RS> Now these passages are also used to denounce homosexuality,
RS> but again I couldn't find homosexuality specifically
RS> mentioned. And, again, the part that is usually interpreted
RS> to mean homosexuality, "for them that defile themselves with
RS> mankind, for menstealers," also would apply to women in some
RS> instances. No overt homosexuality here:
RS> 1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a
RS> righteous man, but for the lawless and
RS> disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,
RS> for unholy and profane, for murderers of
RS> fathers and murderers of mothers, for
RS> manslayers,
RS> 1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile
RS> themselves with mankind, for menstealers,
RS> for liars, for perjured persons, and if
RS> there be any other thing that is contrary to
RS> sound doctrine;
RS> Now, the following is also ASSUMED to deal with
RS> homosexuality, but it isn't specific . . . sex isn't even
RS> mentioned, and again it could apply to women.
RS> Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with
RS> womankind: it [is] abomination.
RS> Now, it's interesting that the following passages condemn
RS> homosexuality, but also admit that YHVH CAUSES
RS> homosexuality. My question: if it is made by YHVH, why
RS> should it be condemned?
RS> Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
RS> through the lusts of their own hearts, to
RS> dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
RS> Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and
RS> worshipped and served the creature more than
RS> the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
RS> Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile
RS> affections: for even their women did change the
RS> natural use into that which is against nature:
RS> Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural
RS> use of the woman, burned in their lust one
RS> toward another; men with men working that which
RS> is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that
RS> recompense of their error which was meet.
RS> Now, how closely do you follow your Lord, your Bible,
RS> Darryl? Do you hold to its commandments and orders? If so,
RS> then is the Bible the inerrant word of YHVH? If so, then
RS> you have no choice but to go out and kill homosexuals, based
RS> on your reasoning:
RS> Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in
RS> [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a
RS> reprobate mind, to do those things which are
RS> not convenient;
RS> Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness,
RS> fornication, wickedness, covetousness,
RS> maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate,
RS> deceit, malignity; whisperers,
RS> Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud,
RS> boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient
RS> to parents,
RS> Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers,
RS> without natural affection, implacable,
RS> unmerciful:
RS> Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they
RS> which commit such things are worthy of death,
RS> not only do the same, but have pleasure in them
RS> that do them.
RS> Which is just backed-up by the following scripture:
RS> Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth
RS> with a woman, both of them have committed
RS> an abomination: they shall surely be put to
RS> death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
RS> So, going to go out and kill some homosexuals now, Darryl?
RS> Your Deity commands it.
I'm reposting this for Jimson, and every other buttfuck Christoid
loser who has claimed their God *doesn't* command the death of
gays.
I like the fact that the bible *NOWHERE* condemns abortion
doctors to death, yet Christoids have no problem despatching
them away to their "maker", yet there are many commandments to
kill gays, and adulterers, and bestialists, and thousands of
others, yet Christoids won't despatch them.
Why?
Rod "...are they being salad-bar Christians?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheism: A non-prophet organisation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:21:52
EID:a287 225652a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e5840
* On 16-02-97 at 12:13, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> When you reached puberty (assuming you have), which sex interested
SA> you? Many homosexuals (from what I have heard) are attracted to the
SA> same sex from the time that they are attracted to ANY sex. This to
me
SA> indicates that it is a natural alternative path.
I have always felt, since any stage of conscious understanding of
base attractions, attracted to males and specifically not
females. This difference, however, existed unexplained until I
understood the base level attractions and orientations in my
life.
I have always felt attracted to males. The realisation came
about age seven for me, that I was different to others.
SA> Not all problems are addressed by the constitution, Ken. That
is
SA> why there are provisions for amendments.
Don't worry. The case of Baehr v Lewin in Hawaii has been an
interesting one. It's been found that to deny gay people rights
that straight people have in regard to relationships is
discrimination based not on the relationship, but of the sex of
the participants. It's been found to require "compelling
interest" justification under the law.
It's been exposed in the courtroom of Judge Kevin Chang that gay
people can parent, and raise children with the same ability as
heterosexuals. It was even proposed that the children of gay
people may actually be more tolerant and understanding
individuals than the average child who has been raised oblivious
of discrimination.
And of course, in Evans v Romer, we saw that the heterosexual
majority cannot fence off gays (or people even PERCEIVED to be
gay) to be treated unequally before the law by the state of
Colorado, any of its agents, agencies, bodies or employees.
Rod "...and that one did get the Christoids all twisted" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:07:54
EID:1918 225658e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e630a
* On 16-02-97 at 12:29, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> RS> I take it that you have evidence that it is an unnatural
SA> RS> lifestyle, Ken. You DO, don't you?
SA> KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
SA> Does sex necessarily need to imply attempts at procreation?
Yet again another good debunking. Sex does not necessarily nor
functionarily lead to procreation every time.
Rod "...thanks for debunking Ken in yet *another* way, Sue" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:08:56
EID:0e84 22565900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6348
* On 16-02-97 at 12:16, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> KY>Well, I see that you do not understand my views at all
KW> KY>then.. To think I am
KW> KY>stereotypical, is almost laughable..But, why is it okay for people
to be
KW> KY>against Christians, but not for one to be against homosexuality?
KW> KY>And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is
a big
KW> KY>difference.
KW> You waddle, you quack, what does that make you?
KW> Oh, and claiming that gays make a choice isn't going to make those nasty
KW> wet dreams and disturbing fantasies go away.
The fact that he claims that he says "homosexuality" and then
goes on to cast hateful foaming at the mouth about "homosexuals"
means he's a very confused "if it waddles, and quacks, like a
duck, call it a duck".
Rod "...he's such a *down*er :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Little Ru
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:10:58
EID:b79f 22565940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e63c2
* On 16-02-97 at 09:54, LITTLE RU wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
LR> -=> Quoting Ken Young to Richard Smith <=-
LR> RS> Really? Then who goes out into the woods and teaches
LR> RS> homosexuality to animals? You WERE aware that homosexuality
LR> RS> does occur in nature, weren't you?
LR> KY> That's what they say, I have yet to see it, though.
LR> KY> And since I have not seen any proof of it, according to "anti-fundy"
LR> KY> logic, it must not be true.
LR> Well, then you haven't been around many dogs/horses/cattle/sheep or
any
LR> farm animals for that matter...(and no, I don't consider dogs farm animals).
LR> I have seen it just twice in the last month myself...
Little Ru, you fell for it. He's never seen an electrical power
generation facility either, probably, but that doesn't mean he
doesn't believe in the electricity in the wall socket :)
We've provided him with the evidence, he can choose to
self-verify it if he likes.
If he does not, however, yet still claims that "animals aren't
gay", then we now have a right to ask him for HIS evidence that
EACH and EVERY animal EVER was not gay :)
Rod "...and that includes humans, as humans are animals" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:23:00
EID:bb28 22565ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6694
* On 17-02-97 at 13:56, DAVID RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> >>RS> I take it that you have evidence that it is an unnatural
DR> >>RS> lifestyle, Ken. You DO, don't you?
DR> KY> Yep..[sic] Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
DR> Yes, and many of them do.
Maybe we should now focus on an offense, not a defense. I'd like
to know why Ken thinks that it is an *unnatural* lifestyle.
Unnatural means not occuring in nature. By definition, Ken is
wrong. Homosexuality occurs naturally, in nature, all the time,
among humans and other animals.
Hence any derived life of homosexual animals/humans is also quite
natural.
Of course, we can now attack him for making the *INCORRECT* and
*UNSOURCED* assumption that only ONE lifestyle is correct.
Then again, the "gay lifestyle" isn't that much different to a
heterosexual one. Work, pay taxes, do the shopping, watch Star
Trek, pay some bills, possibly have children, get married,
contribute to the community, abide by laws, etc, etc, etc.
I don't see what's so *different* to the heterosexual "lifestyle",
do you? I wonder if Ken will?
Will he also proclaim that the "heterosexual lifestyle" is also
unnatural?
DR> Now then: why did you evade Richard's question?
Because it's the Christian way(tm) when they say something silly,
or can't answer a question, they redefine or backpedal *hard*
Rod "...what else could we expect :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I take my pet lion to church every Sunday. He has to eat!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: True xian love
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:27:02
EID:0bf6 22565b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6786
* On 17-02-97 at 11:54, DAN CEPPA wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "True xian love" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> ==========================================
DC> KY> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there
is a
DC> KY> big difference.
DC> RH> So burn homosexuality in Hell, not homosexuals.
DC> KY> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.
DC> ===========================================
DC> Yes, True Xian Love in action.
Love comes at the end of guns, and baseball bats, for Christians.
Rod "...Accept our god or die, is their motto" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: LA Times: PYRAMID POWER
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:28:04
EID:3a03 22565b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e67c4
* On 17-02-97 at 03:56, DAVID WORRELL wrote to TOM KLEMESRUD,
on the topic of "LA Times: PYRAMID POWER I" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 16 Feb 97 01:45, Tom Klemesrud wrote to All:
DW> TK> PYRAMID POWER IN THE UNITED STATES
DW> TK> LOST ANGELESE TIMES Page 1A Saturday 02/15/97
DW> Are you Terry Liberty-Parker's secret homosexual lover?
DW> Do you two make out in a TANK?
Tom is, from memory, an ex-co-defendant with Erlich and was being
sued by the scienoclams.
Rod "...but hey, I'm not validating kookdom!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:43:06
EID:4e3a 22565d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6b4a
* On 18-02-97 at 07:00, MARK O'NEILL wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> KY>> But, why is it okay for people to be against Christians, but not
for
MO> KY>> one to be against homosexuality?
MO> RH>> Because Christians are harmful to others and are Christians by
choice.
MO> RH>> Homosexuality is neither.
MO> KY> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
MO> While there may be violent gays/lesbians, I've yet to come across one.
MO> Gay people seem to be a lot more placid and "civilized" than your average
MO> christian. An interesting statistic would be a cross-section of both
MO> christians and gays to see which had the highest percentage of criminal
MO> convictions recorded against it. Go on. Tell me it'd be the homosexuals.
At this point, you will probably hear the scream of some "Dr
Cameron" research -- something about the top-10 murderers in US
history being predominantly gay.
Maybe something about Jeffrey Dahmer? Of course, it will not
*validate* any statement about gays being more violent.
I'm tempted to say that gay people tend to try and find a
non-violent solution to a situation, but that does not mean I
think that gays have less of a propensity to be able to be
violent.
I'd say lately that gay people have been taking self-defense
courses, and learning to "bash back" to stop an attacker. Unlike
the 70s and 80s, where gay bashings just "happened", gay people
aren't willing to take it anymore. Unfortunately, that now means
we're being gunned down instead of bashed. Of course, gays are
now carrying guns :)
Next, the insecure hets will be grabbing TANKS with
flame-throwers :) :)
MO> KY> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
MO> Tell me, Jelly, how much research have you done regarding homosexuality?
Zilch, nada.
MO> Have you ever considered that gay people may have a particular gene
MO> hetrosexuals don't have that would control their sexuality?
Perhaps, and more likely, a combination of genes that determine
*all* sexual orientations along a spectrum from 100% straight to
100% gay.
Sort of like a spectrum of handedness that goes from 100% right
to 100% left handedness, and all sorts of combinations of
hand-usage.
MO> Perhaps something like an undersized (or enlarged), gland in the brain?
There is the claim of a smaller "nerve bundle" (I think) in the
hypothalamus (I think), that Dean Hamer researched, however, it
was not conclusive and certainly has not been verified.
MO> Mental instability?
Has been ruled out.
MO> Too many cornflakes as a child?
It's that riboflavin overload, yep, gotta be!
MO> Instead of using that fucking book of yours as a shield, how about
MO> looking for answers in a methodical manner?
Because it scares him, besides which, the bible clearly states....
MO> Afterall, your "faith" would only be stronger for it but I fear
MO> you'll refute anything logical as heresy and ignore it anyway.
I've already provided him with literature to correct his errant
viewpoint. He just stuck his fingers in his ears, and resolved
to hold Jeeezus and his bible closer.
The only solution for some Christians is to remove their
"religious book" from their hand before rigor mortis sets in.
MO> KY>> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there
is a
MO> KY>> big difference.
MO> RH>> So burn homosexuality in Hell, not homosexuals.
MO> KY> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.
MO> You fucking beauty. "I love you, sinner, but yer gonna roast anyway!"
You
MO> just get sillier by the week. Your god's going to piss himself laughing
MO> when he sees you front up at the pearly gates. Idiot.
As I said, get him before rigor mortis sets in.
Rod "...because he's almost ready to take a powder" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Fundie Claptrap
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:45:08
EID:8d62 22565da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6bc4
* On 16-02-97 at 18:25, SHELBY SHERMAN wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "Fundie Claptrap" in echo Holysmoke:
SS> KY>> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
SS> KY>> loved.
SS> DW> Just because some parents beat their children to death doesn't
mean
SS> DW> the parents don't love the children, right?
SS> Just because OJ practically cut Nicole's head off...the mother of his
SS> children....doesn't mean that he didn't love her, right?
Just because Jeffrey Dahmer sliced up and ate his sexual assault
followed by murder victims doesn't mean that he didn't love them.
Rod "...but he certainly enjoyed them lots" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:51:10
EID:af26 22565e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e6d2e
* On 18-02-97 at 02:41, MARILYN BURGE wrote to NORMAN SOLOMON,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> If you have Internet access, go to the internet infidels, and
MB> you'll find scads of freethought/humanist/atheist links from
MB> there, including newsgroups.
at http://www.infidels.org/
I also suggest that Norman see some of the Christian and other
religious horrors at my *TEMPORARY* religion page at
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~rod/new/religion.html
It'll be getting a permanent home soon :)
MB> Hard to say what the percentage is. But they sure are vocal. And,
MB> I suspect they are a rather large minority. Measure 9 passed in
MB> some counties in Oregon, and would have carried the State, had it
MB> not been for the Portland Metro Area comprising half the State's
MB> population. It's a pitiful thing to see that kind of intolerance
MB> among people who claim to worship a god of love. Sad, sad thing.
They are currently petitioning and getting signatures signed for
yet another anti-gay ballot measure on marriage. Be warned.
They have already got enough signatures on a ballot in Maine.
MB> The strange dichotomy is that while this large minority is
MB> screaming about "special rights for gays," other more rational
MB> forms of Christianity in the same state are ordaining gays and
MB> recognizing their commitments to each other.
Of course, "special rights" is a myth. In fact, they are now
campaigning to stop marriage rights for gay people, which (if
anything) is a special rights case for straights, and an
equalisation of rights if gay people are allowed to contract
their unions in the eyes of state law.
Who wants to bet they will scream that gays want "special rights"
in this petition drive, too? :(
MB> It's a clear-cut case of a bunch of believers thinking that their
MB> sins aren't as bad as the next guy's. "Sure, I am hostile toward
MB> gays, but look what they are DOING!" That sort of thing. As if I
MB> should care what somebody else does between the sheets, so long as
MB> they don't drag me into their bed, it's none of my business, the
MB> way I see it.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is very good at exposing this. Some of the
claimants who are judging gays using that passage are normally
also included in it, but since they think that homosexuality is
a greater sin... :)
Rod "...and duplicity is bound to occur" Swift.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Give Christians Prozac, not Government Office!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Panzer
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:09:12
EID:1246 22566120
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e7168
* On 17-02-97 at 15:40, JIM PANZER wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "Personal jabs" in echo Holysmoke:
JP> FR>> I get my kicks on Route 666 -- the Road of the Beast
JP> rs>> Isn't that in New Mexico...
JP> FR> Good ole' Texass! They got everthin'!
JP> SQ> I think it's only in New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah.
JP> For the info of our OZ friends..........It was Rt. 66 (not 666) that
went
JP> from Chicago to LosAngelas in California, and in doing so
JP> went through our states of Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma,
JP> Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California........
And I know this. I am talking about US Highway 666, from New
Mexico into Colorado, and (someone has said) Utah.
Rod "...capische?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far From!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Reading Incomprehensi
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:13:14
EID:132b 225661a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e725a
* On 17-02-97 at 14:36, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to MARILYN BURGE,
on the topic of "READING INCOMPREHENSI" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> MB>On (12 Feb 97) Ken Young babbled to Becke Boyer...
KS> MB> KY> kids were able to be home schooled(Christians and
KS> MB> KY> non-Christans alike) we probably would be a lot better off.
KS> MB>All home-schooling will do is guarantee your kids are as stupid
KS> MB>as you are. But, don't worry about a thing; they'll be well-
KS> A home-schooled 15-year old was arrested the other day for fire-
KS> bombing an abortion clinic a few miles from here. He did it
KS> TWICE...and then broke in and shot up the medical equipment with
KS> an assault rifle. All this in a 32 day period. I guess he learned
KS> *something*.... :(
I was just about to post that story...
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
01:57 PM ET 02/06/97
Teen-ager arrested in Tulsa abortion clinic attacks
TULSA, Okla (Reuter) - A 15-year-old boy was arrested
Thursday in connection with three bomb and gunfire attacks at a
Tulsa abortion clinic, officials said.
FBI spokesman Dan Vogel said the teen-age suspect was a
white male, and that police received a tip-off after releasing a
composite sketch of their main suspect in the three attacks, all
of which occurred this year.
Federal agents pounced on the boy's home in the Tulsa suburb
of Bixby and searched for clues early Thursday. One man, one
woman and an eight-year-old child were also placed in custody,
but Vogel said they would be released shortly.
``We are only making one arrest today,'' Vogel said. ``The
other three will be released.'' He did not identify the teen-age
boy and declined to detail what evidence had been found at the
home.
The Reproductive Services of Tulsa clinic has been attacked
three times since the start of 1997. On New Year's Day, two
molotov cocktails were thrown at the building and two small
bombs were exploded outside the back door Jan. 19.
Last Sunday someone broke into the building and fired
bullets into medical equipment.
No one was injured in the attacks as the clinic was closed
for the day on all three occasions. The clinic employs 15 people
and offers family planning and adoption services as well as
abortions.
Vogel said the investigation was continuing and that more
arrests might be made.
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Here fundie, fundie, fundie... Nice fundie... *whomp!*
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Skeptic Tank Staff Membe
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:17:16
EID:a83d 22566220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e734c
* On 16-02-97 at 14:06, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to RONALD VASS,
on the topic of "Skeptic Tank Staff Member" in echo Holysmoke:
LB> RV> Just to keep the phone cost down.
LB> Ron, have you checked with your local library to see if they have UNIX
style
LB> internet access? More and more are getting them....I browsed the web
(minus
LB> the pictures) for months before I got my own account, by dialing up
BBS styl
LB> to the MD library's SAILOR system. Its straight text, but for the more
LB> informative sites, that will be all you need. There are usually limits
on
LB> how much time you can spend online, but even at that, its a way to get
to
LB> some of the sites mentioned here in FIDO.
And more importantly, they may allow you to telnet. If you can,
you could telnet to nether.net and get a free unix account so you
can receive and send email :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * If you choke a Smurf, what colour does it turn?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Nick Ravenwood
|Sub: Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 22 Feb 97 12:21:18
EID:6d10 225662a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 330e743e
* On 17-02-97 at 12:42, NICK RAVENWOOD wrote to MICHAEL GOTHREAU,
on the topic of "Becke, slave to satan" in echo Holysmoke:
NR> If that's so, you snivelling faggot, then there's 3 things we have in
common
I love you Nick. I want to make you my love puppy!
Bark, slave boy!
Rod "...hehehee" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:22:25
EID:b7bd 225762c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 bcdebf3c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3303cfab
On (14 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
-> On 12 Feb 97 08:22:12, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
JS> RS> In the fact it is perjorative.
JS> Perjorative is a noun.
RS> You so sure, Mr Erudite?
JS> Yes.
DC> In the first place, you both spelled it wrong. In the second
DC> place, you, the "Erudite One", got it wrong:
DC> pełjołrałtive
DC> adjective
DC> : tending to make something seem less valuable
DC> or worthwhile than it is
In the first place, I didn't spell it that way. Mr. Swift did. And in
the second place, my dictionary show it both ways.
DC> You just lost your buck private membership "English Major".
And you lost your soul.
... Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. - James 1:19
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:23:54
EID:d694 225762e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f71f4184
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3303d431
On (14 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
-> On 12 Feb 97 08:17:02, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
JS> grace I demonstrated in my statement. BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23
JS> NIV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
DC> Therefore, Jimbo, you cannot pray to your god. It's not allowed.
DC> After all, oh Brain Dead one, your bible says so.
Evidence????
... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:24:20
EID:9766 22576300
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 3eacebb0
On (13 Feb 97) Roger Hunter wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Rod Swift <=-
JS> One of the few things I have agreed with Jesse on. The Bible is quite
JS> clear on the subject. A deed is judged 'good' not merely by content,
JS> but rather, by motivation.
RH> Oh, good. So I can kill you so you can get to Heaven quicker and
RH> that will be judged "good".
Hardly. Whatever your motivation might be, murder is not a good deed.
RH> What was your address again?
Oh, you wish to send a donation?
Jim Staal Ministries
P.O. Box 171
Grandville, MI 49468-0171
As I have broken my leg on the ice on Valentines Day, I could use all
the $$$ help I can get. A high energy music ministry cannot be effected
from a wheel chair or crutches.
... It is more blessed to give than to receive. - Acts 20:35
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:30:21
EID:a83a 225763c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 65f148c2
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd493a
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> I have no problem with the quote. I just want an answer to my question
RS> The answer is "yes". It is ok to judge those who judge you.
RS> That's even biblical, you moron :) :)
Not for mere humans. The scripture does not refer to that. On the same
merit that one judges others, God will judge him.
JS> RS> Those people deserve a similar and equally damning opposition to
JS> RS> their agenda of hatred.
JS> What has any of this to do with not recognizing Christians as human?
RS> I've never stated such a belief, Jim. No matter how many times
RS> you say it, it won't come true :) :)
That is what this is all about. You made reference to Christians as not
being human.
JS> And you, sir, are an ignorant liar! You know nothing of me, and
JS> certainly from your post, you know nothing of the inspiration of Jesus.
RS> The inspiration of Jesus is one whereby you believe, or burn.
RS> Most would call it blackmail. Deluded people call it "salvation".
A good alegory would be to throw a lifepreserver to a drowning person and
that person refuses to avail himself of it and drowns. No blackmail
there.
... For every man shall bear his own burden. (Gal 6:5)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again 2/ [1]
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:36:26
EID:0c37 22576480
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 28ea2992
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd5c3a
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Emasculation: The removal of the male penis. The
RS> principal goal of feminism.
good one, Rush. Amen and preach on...
... But he that glorieth, let him glory in the lord. (2 Cor 10:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again 2/ [2]
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:37:42
EID:0c37 225764a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 5de00725
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd5c3a
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Gay: Used to mean happy or joyful. Has now been corrupted
RS> by the politically correct to mean "Sexually
RS> Challenged".
Again...seems to be a correct call by the rush-man...
... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being. - Acts 17:28
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:39:28
EID:a83a 225764e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d07c182c
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd5c7c
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 03-02-97 at 13:23, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> AS> Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
JS> AS> often complains about bigoted treatment towards gays, Rod would
doubtle
JS> AS> be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to another
JS> AS> group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
JS> RS> Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
JS> RS> emulated into action.
JS> I'm sure there are many anti-gays out there that believe they have the
JS> exact motivation as you.
RS> And what are my motivations, Jim, since you claim to know them?
Right here, as you have stated:
RS> Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
RS> emulated into action.
... If it looks like a fly and tastes like a fly...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:42:30
EID:64ff 22576540
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2a04f87e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd610a
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> Which current message might that be?
RS> The one in which you challenge Fredric to provide some posts of
RS> yours that show your homohatred.
RS> This post shows it. See the above quotation.
Sorry, pal, it is very biblical and demonstrates no hatred on my part.
RS> Rod "... you are a PROVEN homohater, Jimbozo, no matter how much
RS> you deny it" Swift :)
Evidence?????
... I'll tell you anything but my name, rank, and serial number.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:44:23
EID:ab4d 22576580
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 238b50ac
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd66ea
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> Jim Staal has been pining about the "lack-of-profit" that the
RS> Promisekeepers have. Here's a story where they rented the Mile
RS> High Stadium for a flat $100,000 fee, yet derived $3,100,000 from
RS> ticket sales alone (and not the extra from merchandising). Given
RS> they owe about $300,000 more, the Promisekritters made:
RS> $3,100,000 ticket sales
RS> - 100,000 stadium rental
RS> - 300,000 taxation
RS> ----------
RS> $2,700,000 PROFIT
RS> ----------
RS> It also states that each year, it has a $112,000,000 budget.
RS> In fact, they want $3mil profit out of this conference (and
RS> that's before merchandising) from ticket sales of $3.1 million.
RS> That's about 96% of earnings being profit.
What do you define as 'profit'?
... Someday we'll look back on this and shudder!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: the promise keepers 2/
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:45:16
EID:5b4d 225765a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 dd08e740
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd66ec
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrotwant $3mil profit out of this conference (and
RS> that's before merchandising) from ticket sales of $3.1 million.
RS> That's about 96% of earnings being profit.
What do you define as 'profit'?
... Someday we'll look back on this and shudder!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:49:42
EID:688a 22576620
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c68e644d
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32fd67de
On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> Describe this alleged 'healthy pride'?
JS> RS> Positive self-image, self-esteem, self-value, self-worth.
JS> You have done well.
RS> Not that you could judge such a thing, Mr Erudite.
I just looked at your list and responded accordingly...
JS> Now which of the above do you lack (and why) that
JS> makes you so hateful towards Christians?
RS> I lack none of the above. The premise of the second part of your
RS> question is erred. I do not hate Christians.
The evidence is clear, both here and on the channel...
RS> I hate
RS> holier-than-thou assholes.
I guessyou have no problem with me then, eh?
RS> There *is* a difference, even though
RS> you'd like most Christians to be holier-than-thou assholes like
RS> you, Jim. :)
Evidence to support your ad hominem attack on me here? Evidence to
support your allegations that I would like others to be that way?
JS> Everything above comes from within.
RS> Isn't it great to not have to have some imaginary deity from
RS> which to gain self-worth and value from.
My God lives within me.
RS> My, oh my, what will
RS> happen to you when you lose your faith, and enter into a state of
RS> depression which will last for years, and all that self-loathing
RS> for the fact you deceived yourself for decades.
I have had many bouts with severe depression...not due to lack of
faith... and have come back every time.
RS> I truly pity you, Jim, because you will die a very lonely and
RS> confused old man.
I hope you live for many years as well...I almost made 50 before I
suffered my first broken bone...
JS> It is called 'self-affirmation'. Do you have the opinion that
JS> by putting your lies on me that you are building yourself up?
RS> Please elucidate said lies.
Things like being biased against gays and the like...
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!" - Bart Simpson
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:55:51
EID:688a 225766e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 45337fa6
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303cf34
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Oh, so that's why Christians don't attempt to convert people like
JS> RS> me??? Because they are too chicken??? :) Afraid their theology
JS> RS> will be dismantled by me???
JS> No. Here is the reason:
RS> [...then Jim failed to give a real reason, only quoted silly bible
RS> passages, yet again proving that for every bible passage, there
typical of you to flee from the sword of the scripture, Rod...
RS> is an equal and opposite bible passage -- the second law of
RS> bibliodynamics].
So provide one for whatever sscripture I quoted that you are fleeing
from (you failed to quote it, so I have no idea what it was)
JS> My intention here is not to degrade you, necessarily, but it is
JS> reflective upon your attitude towards scripture.
RS> My attitude towards scripture is that it is irrelevant. It also
RS> makes the user of such an irrelevant text also irrelevant and a
RS> laughing stock. :)
Again, typical response from one afraid of God and His Word.
RS> I pity you, Jim, because you could not provide an answer to the
RS> question -- your bible did. Don't you think for yourself?
I find all my answers in the Bible.
RS> Have you lost all capability to? Is this what Christian
RS> "Free-will"(tm) is?
Where have I _ever_ indicated I believe in 'free will'. I have posted
many messages in support of just the opposite position.
RS> The freedom to choose to stop thinking, and
RS> start bleating like a moronic sheep following a flock of deluded
RS> souls on the live-sheep-export truck of existence?
I know nothing of whatyou are talking about...
... For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord. (1 The 3:8)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:02:05
EID:688a 22576840
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f8b117f9
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d18e
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 06-02-97 at 18:14, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> The disingenuous soul Jim Staal has failed to respond to the
RS> section of my post that clearly states that there is
RS> governmentally-mandated inequality for gay people, thereby
RS> contradicting that he did not know of any. This is after he
RS> dodged the question and claimed that the answer to the question
RS> of governmental discrimination was: "Jim Staal doesn't treat gays
RS> unequally".
RS> Now he's deleted all that, to hide the truth :) Nice, eh? :)
typical lie.
JS> I know of no governmental examples of inequality. That _was_ your
JS> question, clearly stated above.
RS> Too bad you couldn't be so honest as to leave the clearly
RS> exampled case of discrimination against gay people :)
There was no example given, justyour usual rants...
RS> I've never made any statements of infidelity about your wife.
RS> Why do you make an ad hominem attack on my husband?
JS> JS> Hmmm...isn't this alleged 'husband' living in the USA? Show me
the
JS> JS> certificate of marriage.
JS> RS> I never used the word husband. I used partner.
JS> Your 'better education' [tm] sure hasn't helped your
JS> ability to read your own posts, has it...read your question again.
RS> I can't believe you could fall for such a basic troll :)
What 'troll'? I am merely taking you at your word.
RS> You are
RS> too funny, Jim. So, tell me why a "piece of paper" is required
RS> for a marriage. I note many faiths don't issue pieces of paper
RS> for ceremonial marriage.
Makes it legal and all that. I don't care what other alleged 'faiths'
do, BTW...
... Why does one turn down the car radio when looking for an address?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:05:28
EID:2214 225768a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 eb66aaee
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d2f8
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
RS> Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
RS> Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
RS> in Jesu..
No evidence anyone in that incident was acting due to their alleged
'faith'...
JS> RS> So abortion clinic murders is not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Were John Salvi and Paul Hill "US residents, targetting US-based
JS> RS> targets, acting to cause terror, in the name of their religion?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. (I'm getting used to it, though)
RS> Wahhh. The question's too hard to answer!
Never said that.
RS> I put it to everyone else the question is 100% on the mark, and
RS> you not answering it shows absurdity -- the absurdity of the
RS> Christian faith.
Everyone, eh? I would like to see the answers from the non-God-haters
on the echo.
RS> Convert or Kill, it's not only Christianity's guiding principle,
RS> but it's also CHRISTIAN LAW of the BIBLE!
JS> Show me where Christ commanded this?
JS> You made the statement. You provide the evidence from scripture where
JS> Christ said to do such things.
RS> No. You do it. Why should I have to do all the work for someone
RS> who claims to know the bible. :) Anyway, your request is
RS> 'absurd' *sneer*.
I don't have to do it, because I know it ain't there. You made the
claim, you show me.
JS> RS> You were the one who proposed governmental screwing of "commies,
JS> RS> treehuggers, bleeding-heart liberal, feminazis" and "illegals".
JS> Show me where I said that.
RS> You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
Of course not. :) Why should I? Fred does that for me.
... Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:12:55
EID:6214 22576980
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 6855fa9e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d3ea
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> So you are saying the word of God is erred? The word of God in
JS> RS> your bible clearly says:
JS> RS> LEV 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with another
JS> RS> man, they have both done a disgusting thing,
JS> RS> and both shall be put to death. THEY ARE
JS> RS> RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN DEATH.
JS> RS> The bible clearly says Christians should kill gay people,
JS> Where?
RS> "...they both shall be put to death... They are responsible for
RS> their own deaths." The Bible is an instructional book of laws
RS> for Christians. The commandment is *to* Christians.
Where does it say that?
RS> You should kill a gay person for Jesus, Jim.
why? Nowhere in the Gospels has He told me to...
... Many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. (Matt 24:11)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Lies...
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:16:58
EID:4b7c 22576a00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 ea28ddba
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d6bc
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Answer? Answer the twisted perception of Rod Swift? Not required.
RS> Perception? No. If God was such a truly unique, all-powerful,
RS> being of CLARITY, there'd be only one version of him --
There is only one version: Jesus Christ.
JS> Fulfilled:
JS> (Mat 5:17 NIV) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or
the
JS> Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
RS> Good. Have you fulfilled your obligation under LEV 20:13 to kill
RS> a faggot for Jesus? If not, why not?
Easy: he didn't command it.
RS> Or are you going to claim that law has been abolished, like you
RS> did in the previous post?
RS> Which is it, Jim? Abolition, or fulfilment. Quick. Change your
RS> mind YET again. Flip-flop...
Fulfillment.
JS> Mat. 5:17 gives you, Rod Swift, a period of temporary grace from Lev
20
JS> before Matt 13 takes place at His hand.
RS> Bullshit, Jim.
No, I am right on the bean with that little bit of wisdom.
RS> Your bible commands you to kill faggots. Do it.
Why? Why do you propagate such desire?
JS> I am not manipulating His Word.
RS> Yes you are. You are claiming God does *NOT* want you to kill
RS> gays. The word of God is specific and CLEAR in Leviticus 20:13.
RS> No exceptions. Kill gays.
I don't see it that way.
JS> I said 'every word', did I not?
RS> You do not believe in every word. You believe in every word that
RS> is convenient. Read Leviticus 20:13, then tell me when you last
RS> killed a queer for Christ.
Christ never told me to do that.
... Pray without ceasing. (1 The 5:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:25:14
EID:da6f 22576b20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 919ec2bd
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d7ae
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> Why not? You believe every lie Satan puts in your mind...
RS> JS>..................RS> ---------------------------------
JS> RS> Wow! Look everyone. George Mooth's mental disease has spread.
JS> RS> Now Jim is saying everyone and everything is Say-tan-hic! :)
JS> Where did I say that?
RS> It was underlined. You are stupid. You made a claim that Satan
RS> controls my sentient functions, yet offer no proof.
Stand to reason: Satan is the father of lies.
RS> George Mooth did the same thing.
Must be a man knowledgeable of scripture. Unlike yourself.
RS> I'm always wondering why God doesn't put any truths in their mind
RS> and make them win.
He does and they do. (the Bible). It is just the 'sons of perdition'
that have their eyes blinded and ears closed by Satan and his demons.
(see Rod Swift)
RS> You are at that point, Jim. Pray to Jesus all you like, but the
RS> fact is that he doesn't provide to you what YOU CLAIM Satan
RS> provides to me. Isn't Jesus benevolent enough?
I am provided with everything I need to defeat Satan and his followers
(Rod Swift). Jesus won the war at Calvary, and I win the battles when I
leave it up to him. You are defeated.
... I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. - Hebrews 13:5
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shan'T Rec
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:32:04
EID:1a3a 22576c00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 b364c5b7
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d8dc
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> [Jim quotes two biblical passages, proving again he has given up
RS> all higher brain function in exchange for a decrepit, outdated,
RS> and getting even-more irrelevant book. Praise Jesus, and Jim's
RS> Free-Will(tm)]
I don't believe in Free-Will [tm]
RS> Why don't YOU try answering the question, Jim, rather than your
RS> irrelevant mythbook!
I have all the answers in the Bible. i know nothing of this 'mythbook'
youo speak of.
... For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. - Philippians 1:21
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Bathroom Staal disease
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:33:55
EID:400f 22576c20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 cf4ce8f7
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303d992
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 06-02-97 at 18:52, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
RS> on the topic of "Bathroom Staal disease" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Does your wife know about this fidelity? :)
JS> RS> You have edited my quote. I wrote INfidelity above...
JS> RS> STYXXXXX!!! :) :)
JS> No, you screwed up. Admit it. I changed nothing.
RS> But where in your bible does it say that I didn't write
RS> infidelity?
Your quote above says you wrote 'fidelity'. I don't need the bible for
that.
RS> I refuse to deal with someone who is only sentient part of the
RS> time, and only a bibliolatrous fool at others. :) It's because
RS> I love you that I make you out to look like a moron! :)
You do not have the capacity to do that.
JS> JS> Absolutely. I haven't been guilty of infedility for quite some time,
so
JS> JS> she is quite secure in the fact of my fidelity.
RS> Most people I know think that infidelity once means infidelity
RS> again.
Most the people you know have twisted thinking like you, I am sure...
If you can be swayed once, you can be swayed again.
RS> Then again, why would you want to leave your butch she-male
RS> "Wilbur"? *guffaw!* :)
Right! She has the greatest hooters _and_ female genitalia a man would
want. :)
... Niether give place to the devil. (Eph 4:27)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:36:53
EID:a83a 22576c80
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 97a79912
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303e562
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Ahh...spoken as one who has not felt/experienced the touch of God.
RS> Does that involve the priest buttfucking someone, Jim, to make
RS> them *EXPERIENCE* the *TOUCH* of God??
JS> I _have_ met Jesus in a spiritual sense and He lives within me via His
JS> Holy Spirit.
RS> Ah, your priest never used a condom. That explains it.
My only priest is jesus Christ.
... Let them learn first to shew piety at home. - 1 Timothy 5:4
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:37:37
EID:bbdb 22576ca0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 bdef655d
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303e5a0
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> Perjorative is a noun.
JS> KD> Not according to Websters [which spells it without any r's, BTW]
It is
JS> KD> defined FIRST as an adjective.
JS> I'll agree with your account of the spelling (I just copied it from
his post
RS> That's strange. I was waiting for the spelling correction, after
RS> your claims of an English "major" :) :)
You spelled it that way. I just copied your spelling because of your
'better educated [tm]' status...
JS> Now lessee (where are those glasses...hmmm...oh well, here is other
JS> pair) my New Lexicon Webster's Dictionary shows it both ways, with the
JS> adj. form first as well (they list in alphabetical order, after all)
so
JS> he wins one. (stinkeeng chair is crooked now...)
RS> :) :) Of course, pejorative is both a noun and a verb :) I
RS> suppose that is because I have an English major from a recognised
RS> university. Oh, and I have a degree to prove it :)
Prove it. Why then are you still a little giggly college boy from down
under?
... And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Eph 4:23)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: A "Swiftie"!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:39:34
EID:99fe 22576ce0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 0c6b5dfb
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303e61a
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 05-02-97 at 14:23, JIM STAAL wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
RS> on the topic of "A "Swiftie"!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> BTW, Laurie, can you imagine the impudence of Rod Swift
JS> JS> masquerading as you and then directing me to a web site
JS> JS> showing him smooching on his boyfriend!?
JS> LA> Thanks for letting me know.
JS> No prob. We have to look out for each other, you know. :)
RS> Of course, the false witness about "smooching boyfriend" is yet
RS> to be eradicated. Why are you lying, Jimbozo?
It was you who gave me the URL...
... Blessed is the man to whom the lord will not impute sin. (Rom 4:8)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:40:07
EID:1dbf 22576d00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c9184382
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3303ea1e
On (14 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 05-02-97 at 14:06, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVE HAMILTON,
RS> on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cooks" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> DH> I personally don't accept claims that either home schooling or
JS> DH> parochial schooling comes even close to matching the standards
JS> DH> of the pathetic public systems. If you have any evidence to the
JS> DH> contrary, I'll be happy to hear it.
JS> Home schooling is a scourge and a copout and the results, IMHO, are
JS> social and intellectual dwarfs.
RS> You failed to preface your comment, Jim, with:
RS> "Speaking from experience..."
I attended private Christian schools (quite popular in the West Michigan
area) for all of my educative years.
... Be on your guard against all kinds of greed. - Luke 12:15
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:41:18
EID:5ae2 22576d20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d9f3fd9e
REPLY: 1:229/622 3305ad8e
On (15 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> What do you find disgusting? That the Bible clearly puts the
JS> responsibility in your corner? Kinda tough on ya, isn't it...
DH> No, I accept responsibility. What is disgusting is that you
DH> are a salesman for a god that would supposedly condemn innocent
DH> babies to eternal torture for any reason whatsoever.
I condemn no one. I leave that to God where it belongs.
DH> My kids get "balanced treatment." My wife takes them to sunday
DH> school, and I teach them critical thinking, their favourite
DH> pastime.
JS> Sounds like you have a good wife who has
JS> concern about her children's spiritual status. Keep up the good
JS> work, lady!
DH> She thinks you're sick, too.
Only because she doesn't know what is going on. I am sure you only
present what you want her to know. (typical cult-like presentation and
programming, Have her write directly to me and she will know the truth,
and not just your biased, anti-christian BS))
... A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Gal 5:9)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:44:30
EID:b2fa 22576d80
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 b894a6a8
REPLY: 1:229/622 3305afbb
On (15 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Let's have the stats on how many of these mothers and babies 'die on
JS> the table'. I have renewed respect for the Catholics.
DH> So-called 'Partial-birth abortion' is performed ONLY to save the
DH> life of a mother.
Evidence????
DH> As for the rate of death of mothers during childbirth, I don't have
DH> the stats and I'm too lazy to go after them. In 10 years working
DH> in hospitals, including L & D departments, I never saw one. Perhaps
DH> Dr. Goldberg could offer more current data.
Then I guess you have no leg to stand on here ( I have one...broke the
other one) so I guess you are out of the round here...
DH> That you spend time interpreting the Bible by yourself and with the
DH> help of CRC dogma I do not doubt.
Try with the help of the Holy Spirit...
JS> I think the shoe is on the other foot in that you have
JS> great fear over things you cannot understand and refuse to look
JS> into: God...and well you might.
DH> Been there. Done that. Wasted 35 years being a damned fool.
Well...the fool has said in his heart, there is no God...
... Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. (1 The 5:21)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:48:16
EID:9b0c 22576e00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8a241a1f
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75498c2d
On (14 Feb 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> "Do you believe that the persons responsible for the OK city
MG> MG>> bombing were rligious fundamentalists?"
JS> Of course not! What a stupid idea!
MG> Remember that I did not ask "Did they do it BECAUSE they were
MG> religious fundamentalists", I simply wnated to know if they were
MG> fundies or not.
MG> Is your answer still the same or are you just having some fun?
Nah...not fun. I just broke my left tibia and have screws holding my leg
inline with my ankle. I am sorry about my misinterpretation of the
question.
... Why does one turn down the car radio when looking for an address?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:50:58
EID:9386 22576e40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c8786a79
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 754990bc
On (14 Feb 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> No. You know better than that, Dave...that is my reason to
JS> believe their were only two.
MG> Put a male and female Drosophila fromt he same genetic background in
a
MG> bottle and let them breed. See how many generations you get before
MG> the entire population dies and no more prgeny are born.
Ahhh...enter divine guidance...
... "Nice landing...next time, put the wheels down first."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 16:05:00
EID:5920 225780a0
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Roger Hunter <=-
KY> CHristians believe in a god. This clearly is saying that anyone that
KY> believes in a god is a dogmatic moron.
RH> Sounds reasonable to me. What's the problem??
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there. But, if you really want to be stupid, and
KY> refuse to even accept the possibility of a god, go right ahead.
Oh, I accept the possibility; all you have to do is show me
clear-cut evidence for one.
Until then, you are a dogmatic moron.
... SENILE.COM found . . . Out Of Memory . . .
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: BLOCKHEAD RITUALS
|Date: 23 Feb 97 16:06:00
EID:4640 225780c0
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Roger