God Damned Fundies!
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:46:17
EID:579c 22576dc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 01a2364e
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330dd064
On (21 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to Marilyn Burge...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> John Brawly said to Marilyn Burge about 'First Cause' Crap:
jb> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number,"
jb> either? (*chuckle*)
RS> DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
RS> jb> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
RS> Infinite from ANY point, right?
That's the way infinity works. Yes.
... I'm not lazy, I'm doing research on inertia...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:57:10
EID:449f 22576f20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 864b3ce0
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 759d1cc1
On (20 Feb 97) Martin Goldberg babbled to Laurie Appleton...
LA> Ever hear of the DNA code? Highly complex codes don't arise
LA> by themselves anymore than intelligent communications
MG> The DNA code is not complex, Dipshit. Figure it out. 64
MG> codons coding for 20 amino acids.
^^^^^^
At first, I thought you said 64 CONDOMS, and I couldn't WAIt
to read the rest of the sentence.
MG> Maybe this is too complex for your simple mind, but no
MG> someone with a bit of intelligence.
In today's Ask Marilyn column, somebody asked her if a person who
had just recently had a blood transfusion could get a false
positive on a DNA test in a murder case.
She said that the foreign DNA in the sample would quickly be found
to be foreign, and would only be present for a few days, anyway,
until the body replaced the foreign blood with "local" stuff. She
said that if the person had a complete transfusion because of
really, really serious injury, there would be so much foreign DNA
present that only an idiot would think they were getting a "good"
reading (people only get one pint of blood from each donor,
according to her), and they would be too weak to be a suspect in a
murder case, anyway.
Do you agree?
... Creationists: Transitional forms between idiots and morons.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:28:49
EID:acd3 22577380
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 735adc50
On (22 Feb 97) Lynda Bustilloz babbled to MARIO GONZALEZ...
LB> Norman and Mario were killing time yakking about Conversion:
LB> (YES, people, it's salad bar-ism. No SENSIBLE theist should be
LB> without their Salad Bar!)
Not necessarily. If you are a theist who sees the Bible as
a chronicle of Man's search for god and his perceptions of
what he saw in god, there is no salad bar involved. There
is merely an understanding that when Man concluded he had
found god, he was often mistaken.
... A man without god is like a fish without a bicycle.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Oh no . . .
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:49:42
EID:84d5 22577620
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a81af267
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6ed8
On (21 Feb 97) Richard Smith babbled to All...
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Terry Liberty-parker said to Rod Swift about ACLU News
RS> 01-30-97: Chri:
RS> ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?"
RS> ROD> Swift :)
TL> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
RS> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks
RS> like. Damn.
Don't you know that libertarianism is the really, really big
tent that the Republicans only dream about?
My fundy friend and I are both libertarians (small l). He
says he'd vote for a libertarian candidate in a heartbeat, if
they ever found one that didn't have a lifestyle that spoke
loudly of his wish to dodge the bullet of the laws he'd been
wilfully breaking for years.
... He's is a scrotum... halfway between a prick and an asshole.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:54:53
EID:790e 225776c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8f2df82f
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 4dea57dd
On (18 Feb 97) Norman Solomon babbled to Dan Ceppa...
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Norman Solomon <=-
NS> Hi Dan
DC> Impress us some more. Tell us you are Chris Green in disguise.
DC> That should surely "Wow!" us.
NS> Who on earth is "Chris Green"?
He came in here with a gigantic chip on his shoulder, telling
us all his physical and psychiatric woes, followed by a
recitation of his IQ scores qualifying him for Mensa. He
then left to have brain surgery.
He's also from England.
We take a dim view of people from the "old country" looking
down their noses at us mere colonial renegades who managed
to whip you ass.
... Teenages are God's punishment for enjoying sex!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:26:21
EID:27d5 22571b40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fb8f2
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 4f2b631a
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 08:51, John Brawley wrote to Mark Kimes:
JB> Give me the 'formal math language' direct and unambiguous equivalent
JB> for "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become
JB> one point." Else, grant that it doesn't exist.
Zero.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:28:36
EID:c187 22571b80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fb99a
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 b6007628
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 09:38, John Brawley wrote to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> I been gettin' this sort of shit from people (at least some of which
JB> were less foolish than you) most of my _life_.
"I've been treated like a crackpot for most of my _life_."
That should tell you something, John.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:31:44
EID:c187 22571be0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbaeb
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 fbbbb06a
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 10:01, John Brawley wrote to Mark Kimes:
JB> For someone supposedly so careful and intelligent, I find it hard to
JB> believe you think that lies and sophistry, not to mention character
JB> assassination, are effective means of argument.
No one here is *arguing* with you, John. We're all just making fun of you.
JB> I have yet, for example, to get an answer from _anyone_, as to the
JB> correct formal-math way of phrasing, writing, or using the concept
JB> "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB> point." That is a _critical_ underlying concept for my geotopological
JB> construct, and I can't get _diddlyshit_ from you supposedly math-aware
JB> types in here, as to a "standard math" way of saying or writing it.
Zero.
JB> In the main, sophistry, inaccurate understanding, prevarication and
JB> character assassination can have no effect upon the actual geo-
JB> topological formulation I'm having to deal with. A network of
JB> dimensionless, but 'real,' points, of vertex order twelve is not a
JB> matter of opinion; it is simply what it is, and the 'metaphysical'
JB> aspects, such as axiomatically deciding that the nodes (points) of the
JB> network are noncoalesceable (which _requires_ a way to say "minimum
JB> distance" without defining a pre-existing metric), are either
JB> speakable in standard math terms, or they are _not_.
Have you conversed with Gardner about your horsesh...err, "hypothesis"?
Considering his love for math and your alleged former correspondence with
him, I'd say he would have been the first to enter your head.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:35:51
EID:ee80 22571c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbb79
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d2abe
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Feb 97 23:55, Ken Young wrote to Dan Ceppa:
KY> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato plant before. Or any
"wild" vegetable, for that matter.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:37:36
EID:b960 22571ca0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbbec
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d3bfa
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 01:08, Ken Young wrote to Roger Hunter:
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there.
No more arrogant than the belief that all we see around us was created solely
for our benefit.
Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we (humanity)
are the "most superior beings out there."
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:39:32
EID:e91c 22571ce0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbc1e
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 9a6c5ff5
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Feb 97 14:58, Norman Solomon wrote to Judith Bandsma:
NS> It would be very interesting to know what you (& others) think
NS> children should be sheltered from, if anything.
From preachers/priests/pastors that want to molest them, for starters.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 03:40:26
EID:98ef 22571d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 330fbc74
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 6ec26195
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Feb 97 15:15, Norman Solomon wrote to Lynda Bustilloz:
NS> The point I was trying to make to DW was, that to label someone with
a
NS> whole bunch of negatives just because they are a Christian, is wrong
NS> by any ethical standards.
Is it wrong to "label someone with a whole bunch of negatives" just because
they are a white supremicist? Would you also label this behavior "racist?"
---
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:07:50
EID:be92 225770e0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 225770f9
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
MG> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or two ago.
The
MG> people in the lab hadn't believed me. One good thing about the guy...he's
MG> gawddamned consistant.
With all those typefaces and sizes, it looks like a ransom note, doesn't
it?
The boy's psychotic.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing li
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:07:54
EID:4c00 225770e0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 225770fb
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
FR>> It might not work. I need funding for more research. }:-}
DW> Brawley's the loaded one here... ask him for the money.
Probably not worth it. Drugs don't spend like they used to.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:25
EID:a1f6 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101980
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 cbe2747f
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
19 Feb 97 11:06, quoting John Brawley to Katherine Wintersnight:
JB> (*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
JB> Sorry, Katherine, but the shoe's not on the foot you think it is.
JB> My sense of humor is not only intact, but is also both subtle and
JB> sometimes downright convoluted. Whom do you credit for keeping this
JB> thing alive this long? those buffoons, or me?
Wriggle little fishie...wriggle.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:08
EID:40bc 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101971
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 6af92c0b
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
19 Feb 97 11:31, quoting John Brawley to Dan Ceppa:
JB> There is no year-long set of moments { [Jan.1,Dec.31] } labelled "zero
JB> year."
JB> There is a no-width "zero _point_," which is not itself a 'block,'
JB> 'year,' or 'femtosecond,' and cannot be. To continue to maintain
JB> otherwise merely amplifies the ignorance and irrationality of the
JB> claimee.
Do I celebrate a birthday for my 6 mo. old grandchild? How many years
old is he, John?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:18:54
EID:7f56 22575240
MSGID: 1:123/67 3310199d
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 6d424527
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
20 Feb 97 08:36, quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes:
JB> Define "point."
JB> Define "line."
JB> See if you can define either one without reference to the other.
JB> Find your definitional effort in a 'standard math' text.
JB> When you can't, tell me _why_.
What about a point on a curve, Bait Boy?
Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
f(x,y) = 0 at which
delta f/delta x = delta f/delta y = 0
Is there a real tangent here? Why or why not?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:22:15
EID:f360 225752c0
MSGID: 1:123/67 33101a8c
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 4f2b631a
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
20 Feb 97 08:51, quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes:
JB>> John Brawley's crackpot phrasing:
JB>> "That distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become
JB>> one point."
MK>> A geometry question? If there is any distance between the
MK>> points, there are an infinite number of points lying on the line
MK>> between the two points, John.
JB> Topology question. Not strictly "geometry."
Topology? Did you sleep through limits, Bait Boy?
There's _always_ room for another point in MATHEMATICS, dufass.
JB> Spit it out, boys, if you know it, or admit I'm right that there are
JB> just _some_ concepts that don't _have_ "standard math" formatting.
Just what is your mathematical background, John?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:08:45
EID:1e00 22570900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f989d
-> On 21 Feb 97 11:41:48, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> John really doesn't have a clue, does he.
MK> Clues are, unfortunately, nonlocal to John.
DC> I just wonder what Hector would say about this.
MK> He's too busy laughing at Holysmoke to say much at the moment. :-)
I must imagine that it hurts for him to laugh, though, with
that bus still sitting on top of in in Hollywood.
... Support school prayer - the Creationists' only chance to pass science!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:10:20
EID:1c3c 22570940
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f98fc
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:38:23, John Brawley got back to ROBERT CURRY
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
RC> It is much easier to get lots of laughs from our Quantum Bait Boy
RC> when you don't take him at all seriously, isn't it?
JB> Interesting observation. Pointless for you, though.
Yes, Robert, you are 100 and 10 % on the mark!
... Remind me not to shoot outside corks with you!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:24:28
EID:32d2 22570b00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9c4c
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:53:25, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> 6 - 8 = -2
JB> [-3][-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
JB> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
DC> Try using your 'logic' with 6 - 6, John. The answer, according
DC> to what you typed above, is [+1]
JB> Good counter. I'll think about it.
Thank you.
And, that is very good move for you to do, John. Try it by
moving the '1' under the [5]. That makes _my_ problem work.
But, be careful, that now results in a wrong answer with _your_
original problem.
Keep up the good work about asking questions. Otherwise, you
may end up in Curry's class with Frederic Rice. And, we all
know how Robert frowns on bloodshed in his classroom.
BTW, just what blood type are you, JIC?
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:28:14
EID:32d2 22570b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9d2e
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:53:57, John Brawley got back to Mark Kimes
JB> (*grin*) How obvious can you _be_, Bud?
JB> There is no physical presence "in this echo."
JB> I am what I am.
So, you are either Yahweh or a somewhat more schooled
Popeye.
And, if it's not physical, why can I read the electrons
that you message generated on my crystal ball?
... Advanced magic is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Feb 97 01:31:24
EID:32d2 22570be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330f9dec
-> On 20 Feb 97 05:01:36, John Brawley got back to Mark Kimes
JB> believe you think that lies and sophistry, not to mention character
JB> assassination, are effective means of argument. Repeatedly, I have
John, it the previous message to me you commented on that
you "cannot be known" as this was not a "real" way
of knowing anything. After all, it's only electrons
dancing around. It's not you. Therefore, there is
nothing to assassinate.
... Next time, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 02:00:12
EID:827e 22571000
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 330fa4ac
-> On 20 Feb 97 18:48:34, Ken Young got back to Dave Hamilton
KY> I am a Patriot, but I have yet to get into the survivalist stuff..
KY> WHat to you constitutes a "cult church?"
"cult" and "church" are synonymous. Try understanding the
meanings, if you can.
... Drop that Bible and come out with your eyes open!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:19:31
EID:1c4a 22576a60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331043e3
-> On 17 Feb 97 10:15:00, Norman Solomon got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> you?) doesn't make them a 'race'. There are christians in every racial
LB> group, but christianity is a religion, not a race.
NS> Could you tell me what race black people are then?
Depending on how PC you want to be, they are Negroid, Black
or Native Africans.
NS> or jews perhaps?
Jewish is a religion. However, the majority of Jews are of
the Semitic race.
NS> The point I was trying to make to DW was, that to label someone with
a
NS> whole bunch of negatives just because they are a Christian, is wrong
NS> by any ethical standards.
How would you label a KKK member? How about a member of the
Nazi party?
... "Fires don't burn heretics. Xians do." Ric Carter
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:38:12
EID:c649 22576cc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104844
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:14:28, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> A serious question without the slightest touch of "other subjects"
JB> gets a flip answer for _what_ reason?
DC> David Worrell answered it quite adequately. In fact, it was
DC> right to to the most infinitesimal detail.
JB> More cognitive distortions? All or nothing thinking, in this case?
No, John. Just an accurate assessment of you, infinitively accurate.
JB> (*chuckle*) The idea that Worrell is 'right' about something is as
JB> ludicrous as the idea that a denigrated source can't possibly speak
a
JB> truth apart from the subject matter of his denigration.
Just because you think _you_ are right does not make it so, John.
JB> I suppose if David Koresh had said that grass was green, you'd be
JB> forced to think it was not, because a source _that_ wrong in other
No, John. However, based on the source of the information, I
would have to get a second opinion if I wasn't sure. Besides,
having lived in Montana, I know that grass is brown.
JB> I'll just not treat some of you guys as if you were sensible in areas
JB> apart from controversial issues. Is that the lesson I'm supposed to
JB> learn from you and Worrell?
No, John. What you have to learn if you are to be taken seriously
on any subject is not to be as ludicrous in trying to pawn
of your pet theory or what ever it is that you are calling it
this week.
JB> (Sorry; not!; I'd rather not descend to your abysmal level of
JB> prejudice.)
It's not predjudice, John, neither is it beyound your comprehension.
BTW, the word you used doesn't mean what you think it means. I
do think you wanted to write 'abyssal'. No charge for the
English lesson. If you need more help, the "English Major"
may not charge you if you buy enough of his records.
... It is difficult to prophesize, especially about the future.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 23 Feb 97 13:43:01
EID:ce8d 22576d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104965
-> On 20 Feb 97 04:23:05, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Your right. I should have said the the Moon is made out of
DC> Green Cheese -OR- Blue Cheese to keep your analogy intact.
JB> That's better. Ludicrous, but better.
IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
JB> You have no logical argument from experimental evidence, that the
JB> Moon's made of cheese.
Of course not. It was meant as an analogy to your theory.
JB> I have a logical argument from experimental evidence, that the
JB> Universe is at least _dependently_ intelligent and 3D mirror-image
Publish it then, John. Let everyone see your logical argument.
Just make sure that it's in a peer-reviewed journal.
... "Your overconfidence is your weakness." - Luke
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:00:26
EID:32b7 22577000
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104d7a
-> On 19 Feb 97 06:31:23, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I've already given you comments on that. Numerous other
DC> posters have shown you that the math won't work with your
DC> presumptions.
JB> As, no doubt, you'd love to believe, and as, equally no doubt, you'd
JB> continue to believe no matter what....
There's nothing to believe, John, as it is a fact.
JB> paradigms, the discrete/real and the "mathematical"/continuous, in
the
JB> following short-form way:
JB> [-3] [-2] [-1] [+1] [+2] [+3]
JB> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
JB> -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
Your number line is fallacious. That too has been pointed
out to you.
JB> Confusing "math" (lower lines) with discrete units (complete years,
JB> minutes, infinitesimals, etc.; upper line) leads to the argument about
JB> which numbered year's Dec. 31st the "millennium party should be held."
Of course it does, as those that think the new millenium starts
with the year 2,000 are using the number line you are using.
JB> There is a no-width "zero _point_," which is not itself a 'block,'
JB> 'year,' or 'femtosecond,' and cannot be. To continue to maintain
The zeroth year exists and has to exist because of the numbering
system for dates has been split into BCE and CE countings. After
all, it's a mathematical thing.
... "What you call a refusal to answer was a refusal to respond" J Jones
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:04:30
EID:c3a1 22577080
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104e6e
-> On 21 Feb 97 04:31:42, Jan deBoer got back to Tom Huber
JD>Wanna borrow my copy of "The Mormon Murders"?????
TH> Note the wording: *conviction* of crimes... In other words, it
[..]
Jd> And, if the book conatins so much "allegation", where are the libel
Jd> and defamation lawsuits from the church leaders?
Hiding out with the Plates?
... The inspiration in the Bible depends on the ignorance of the reader.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:08:44
EID:f66e 22577100
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104f6c
-> On 20 Feb 97 20:08:58, Ken Young got back to Roger Hunter
KY> CHristians believe in a god. This clearly is saying that anyone that
KY> believes in a god is a dogmatic moron.
RH> Sounds reasonable to me. What's the problem??
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there.
Of course it's arrogant. But, that's just another trait of
being an xian.
KY> But, if you really want to be stupid, and
KY> refuse to even accept the possibility of a god, go right ahead.
Gee, Kenny, now tell us why you don't believe in Shiva. He's
really pissed at you for ignoring him.
... "God has no religion" -- Mahatma Gandhi
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: God Dan
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:10:52
EID:def1 22577140
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33104fec
-> On 20 Feb 97 18:55:26, Ken Young got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> So, just what did P&G do that made you so fucking mad at them?
KY> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
IOW, they are doing everything right, especially in regard
to your first complaint.
... Commandment 0: You must lie for your god and his religion
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:15:08
EID:77f7 225771e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331050ec
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:12:36, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> churches here in SC. One was a member, a deacon, and the other was the
JB> pastor.
DC> have to resort to violence to put their competitors out of business.
JB> What competitors? These were their own churches they torched.
I gathered that on the follow-up messages. However, either
way it's a hoot!
"Well, the weekly take is down. Looks like I should firebomb
this place to get things holy-rollering again."
... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:17:50
EID:77f7 22577220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310518e
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:12:36, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
... >>> Why is it that the best taglines are just a little too lo
It's because you put in those three chevrons, sargeant dear.
... >666: PFC of the Beast
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:20:51
EID:785f 22577280
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105243
-> On 19 Feb 97 06:06:50, John Brawley got back to Katherine Wintersnight
KW> the whole thing. The origin lines are funny, but the bee stung
KW> howling from you is even funnier. And if I hadn't decided that any
JB> (*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
I know, I know... Hire a second crew for the Pie Factory.
This overtime in the bakery is killing me!
... Nothing wrong with him than an autopsy wouldn't fix.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: The Index revived
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:25:39
EID:0c26 22577320
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105363
-> On 21 Feb 97 04:01:10, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> happened far too often that parts of books and even whole books
DC> get "lost" in "mysterious" ways.
Jd> Since they have the right to remove printed materials from public
Jd> libraries, I think we should then conversely have the right to go into
Jd> their churches and destroy printed material we don't like.
That's when they fall back on the secular laws against that. They
only see those laws as applicable for themselves, especially when
they are removing materials that _they_ deem "evil" and call upon
the "greater god" as justification.
... I'm in the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:28:40
EID:3410 22577380
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33105418
-> On 21 Feb 97 10:13:38, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> that doesn't!)
JB>
JB> And even more missing mail. :( No Fido here for 3 days now. I'm hoping
It's been up and down but generally steady here, though I did
have one very slow day.
JB> to be able to get this up on Dave Hamilton's board. Starting to look
JB> like Rod Swift's mail, isn't it?
Not that bad. Besides, Rod is doing a marvelous, simply
marvelous job standing in as a replacement for Al Schroeder!
... "Father, they DO know what they're doing!" Jesus in Riverworld
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 23 Feb 97 14:32:43
EID:6bfe 22577400
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3310550b
-> On 21 Feb 97 03:23:51, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
Jd> So, you're _for_ black people, but against black skin?
KY> I already said that there is a difference. WHy should I hate anything
KY> that one cannot help?
DC> Your words do you in, yet again. Keep up the good work, bigot.
MB> I have a feeling that on this one he's consistent. I'd
MB> be willing to bet that he also thinks that blacks are okay,
MB> so long as they don't "act black."
...and ride in the back of the bus.
I don't think he has a clue as to how the bigotry he has
oozes out of virtually every one of his posts.
... +Origin: GIARDIA NETWORK: Beaver fever for Fundies!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: helpless moron from oz
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:56:58
EID:5fbf 22575f00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3310753f
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced1
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, ROBERT CURRY said this about helpless moron
from oz
G'day ROBERT,
[DNA]
LA>> Highly complex codes don't arise by themselves
RC> No, that requires time and Natural Selection. Are you also under the
RC> delusion that life just sprang up from nowhere a week ago Tuesday?
Aren't they reborn at least once a week?
RC> I trust you're not indicative of Australians in general. No country
RC> could *possibly* be so characteristically stupid and survive.
Yes, it's an uphill battle. ;-) I don't want anything to do with the
clown. We have our fair share of fundies over here and although it's not
quite as bad as the US (from my perspective at least), it certainly seems
to be getting there. :-(
Talking to a fella at work the other day who drinks and cavorts around the
countryside (yes, he's a christian), and he has a real hatred for gays
saying that he's sick of having gay rights shoved down his throat. (You
may know of the gay mardi-gras we have over here every year). When I
mentioned I was tired of having seemingly endless televangilists spreading
the good word and expecting me to believe such a chunk of shit he became
quite irate and proceeded to swear profusely, after which he packed up his
bat and ball and left. Funny the way christians behave at times.
/\\ark...
... "The Book of Mormon is chloroform in print" - Mark Twain
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:05:05
EID:e2ea 225758a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331078c1
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3307958a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Why do you NEED
to be saved?
[Evolution]
DW>> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY> Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
Sounds a damn sight better than your theory. I can see it now, your god
dressed up in David Copperfield apparel waving a large stick over a top-
hat and saying to no-one in particular. "And now for my next trick."
/\\ark...
... might as well kill all Christians, as they will go to Heaven.Ken Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:11:54
EID:1e76 22575960
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107a5a
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3307966e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Exemplifying examples
RS>> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
KY> The choice I made was to go by what I naturally am, and not rebel
KY> against my nature.
An idiot.
KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the key. See,
KY> while some are conscience doing it, gays may subconsciously make the
KY> choice to be homosexual. We make choices all the time without
KY> realizing it. And throughout your life, what happens to you, will also
KY> be a big factor in the what choices you make.
ROTFL!!!!
<5 minutes later and still laughing maniacally> Fuck he cracks me up. :-)
Oh dear. This has gotta be kept for the archives! ;-)
/\\ark...
... "gays may subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual" - Ken Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:14:18
EID:c3bb 225759c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107aea
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330798ae
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Driving Mr. Daisy
AH>> When blacks, women, Jews, gays, and other such
AH>> inferiors, heathens and deviants were kept in their
AH>> proper place, I suppose.
KY> Sorry to see that you consider them as inferiors. Perhaps you should
KY> work on being more tolerant of others. :)
Evil is a hill. We stand on ours, speak about others. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:20:42
EID:dec9 22575a80
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107c6a
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3309283a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Cracker Barrel
boycott
JH>> Jesus would be real impressed by his casual disinterest in
JH>> injustice.
JH>>
JH>> "Feed the hungry? Care for the sick and homeless? Not me,
JH>> I'm too busy following Jesus..."
KY> Now, let's see.. When did I say I wouldn't help the needy?
When was the last time you went out of your way to feed and clothe a
destitute? Yesterday? Last week? Last year? Never? Or do you "help" by
tossing a few dollars in the plate?
/\\ark...
... Nine times out of ten the man who declares that God is tender to the
sparrow that falls is not the man to buy a winter's coal for a poor widow.
- Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:28:02
EID:6be7 22575b80
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107e22
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330a5dfc
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Driving Mr. Daisy
KY>> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things
KY>> were a lot better.
ss>> When was that, oh great and knowledgeable history buff?
FR>> Oh, you know... when innocent women were being burned,
FR>> Jews were being burned and disemboweled, niggers knew
FR>> their place, faggets were safely in the closet, girls
FR>> never had abortions -- they just went away to visit a
FR>> sick Aunt for a year.
KY> Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation?
You don't?
KY> And, at least there were less abortions, back then.
I trust you can provide evidence for this?
/\\ark...
... I am a hisotry of buff of sorts -- Ken `Hunh?' Young
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: Ken Young's #1 fan (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:30:06
EID:0cc3 22575bc0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33107e9e
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330b888c
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Cracker Barrel
boycott
RS>> Rod "Your bible clearly supports same-gender relationships." Swift
:)
KY> Maybe that should be Rod "I am obsessed with sexuality." Swift,
KY> instead, if you actually got homosexuality out of those scriptures.
KY> ALways must read things into something, that just isn't there, huh?
ROTFLMAO!!! You do the same thing, Jelly.
/\\ark...
... Ignorance is all that saves some people: if they knew more they would
do worse. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: Trick or Treat (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 07:22:01
EID:b42c 22573ac0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f727f118
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e4d0e
On (22 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Richard Smith...
-> On 16 Feb 97 19:25:30, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DW> The Klan is just as Christian as you are, bozo.
ky> When one goes against basic beliefs of Christianity,
ky> they are not a Christian.
RS> But you said in an earlier post that Xtians who
RS> sodomize small boys are still Xtian:
DC> Like all fundys, he forgets what he posts.
RS> `How dare you damned atheists archive my writings!!!'
DC> Yes, it's just sooooo hateful, especially when they have
DC> to eat their own words.
My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
post (presumably taunting all us nasty heathens) that we
couldn't create even one atom. Then, only a couple of days
later, he said that Man (that's ALL OF US, folks) created
disease.
Now, just how can we create all those microorganisms without
even creating one little itty-bitty atom? Quite a trick.
That makes us even better than his gawd.
... Burro: an ass. Burrow: a hole in the ground. Know the difference.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 08:02:19
EID:2038 22574040
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c1e70a78
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1a9481e2
On (22 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Fredric Rice...
EM> Fredric Rice sD "Hi, s!" ˔ David Worrell, Hs:
DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
DR> by Dr. Sagan.
dw> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have a copy.
FR> With another click you could have bought _ME_ a copy!
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
science-illiterati possess.
... A man drove me to drink. I never properly thanked him.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Feb 97 08:12:26
EID:204f 22574180
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 54565017
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 09260c53
On (21 Feb 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Dan Ceppa...
KW> DC>-> On 16 Feb 97 02:02:28, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
KW> DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
KW> DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
KW> DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
And without it, I'd be in the soup.
... Hit him over the head with a clue x 4.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: It'll be apparent
|Date: 23 Feb 97 09:59:20
EID:7297 22574f60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 cb2d147d
Dan Ceppa sD "Hi, s!" ˔ Rod Swift, Hs:
DC> I'll have to start taping them and the _Simpsons_ Got a
DC> bunch of new tapes to fill up.
___ _____
.'/,-Y" "~-.
l.Y ^.
/\ _\_
i ___/" "\
: /" "\ o !
l ] o !__./
\ _ _ \.___./
X \/ \ ___./
: \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-. .
` Z,-- / ` .
\__. ( / _____) .
\ /-----~~" ) .....................
Y \ /
= "x______.^
= \
j Y
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:08:03
EID:186d 22575100
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 32e9e585
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 759d03a6
Martin Goldberg sD "Hi, s!" ˔ Mark Kimes, Hs:
MG> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or two ago.
MG> The people in the lab hadn't believed me. One good thing about the
MG> guy...he's gawddamned consistant.
And, pray tell, what would be the address of that choice site?
thancksz!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:13:08
EID:3354 225751a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 335c84cb
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f5b6f
Steve Quarrella sD "Hi, s!" ˔ David Worrell, Hs:
DW> Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's gospel program.
DW> It seems many viewers were disturbed by his "metal" tribute album.
SQ> Isn't that great? We heard his version of "Smoke on the Water" the
SQ> other night, and just about died. Maybe Pat is finally having a few
SQ> cups of Reality House brand coffee.
A certain spend-happy female I know bought the fucking thing.
It turned out to be kind of interesting. For the first time, I could
clearly hear every word of the lyrics in "No More Mr. Nice Guy."
Now if he'd just do a version of that Hendrix tune, "Scuse me, while
I kiss this guy" so I could see how the rest of the song goes.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 10:20:03
EID:2d8c 22575280
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a2a3415c
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 c1e70a78
Marilyn Burge sD "Hi, s!" ˔ Ed Mills, Hs:
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
MB> It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
MB> science-illiterati possess.
I wonder where I heard it was a novel...
edweird
... Green Eggs and Hamlet: "Alas, poor Sam-I-am, a man of infinite jest!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 23 Feb 97 11:00:04
EID:2038 22575800
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 26c54f6e
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 a2a3415c
On (23 Feb 97) Ed Mills babbled to Marilyn Burge...
EM> Marilyn Burge sD "Hi, s!" ˔ Ed Mills, Hs:
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally short when it
EM> comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan, I'd be willing to try and
EM> force it down, if you guys says it's worthwhile...
MB> It isn't fiction. He's debunking all those spooks that the
MB> science-illiterati possess.
EM> I wonder where I heard it was a novel...
Dunno.
... Two hands working do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:08:22
EID:717c 22564100
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 604c14c5
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced4
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> therefore we'll prevent you from finding out so's you can do it
RC> JB>> yourself."
RC> So your complaint-filled perception of the above differs from my
RC> generously providing (gratis) references to definitive mathematical
RC> works on infinitesimal analysis. Now my question for you is:
RC> Why haven't you availed yourself of the use of these works?
JB> No round TUIT yet.
RC> Don't let that stop you from babbling your persistent stream of
RC> errant nonsense in the meantime, though. We couldn't have you depart
RC> from your characteristic modus operandi in favor of shutting up
RC> until you've learned some of the basics, first, could we? It just
RC> wouldn't be you, John.
Nor would it be "American." We're free, Robert, to express ourselves
whether we're right, wrong, stupid, intelligent, ignorant, wise,
whatever. We conflict because a) we're both egotistical in our ways,
and b) we're discussing things in which your formal expertise supersedes
mine. But to "shut up?" For what? I don't see the Moderator telling
me to "shut up" until such-and-so condition is met.
And please don't congratulate yourself _too_ much on providing
references for free, "(gratis)." In most of the argument echoes I
inhabit, that is simply _expected_. I, too, have provided my sources,
at least one of which you _said_ you would check out.
Have you? I have seen not a whisper yet that you have.
JB> Never mind, Robert.
RC> No danger of that.
RC> You may consider yourself dismissed.
Thank you.
JB> I've asked you for 'standard math' ways to speak about two
JB> different concepts
RC> You have yet to express any cogent concepts, John. A few words that
RC> have been strung together meaninglessly do not a concept make.
You don't know, or math doesn't have the symbols to express the thought,
then, which means in the latter case that I was right in my original
claim, that some concepts pertinent to my geo-topological efforts do not
have equivalent math phrasings.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Faith is not an excuse for ignorance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:17:00
EID:f870 22564220
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 53e257c4
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced5
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> If it has a standard math explanation, _present_it_,
RC> Or you will do what? Pout? Hold your breath?
JB> Default to concluding you don't have it.
RC> Oh, please feel free to come to whatever mistaken conclusions suit
RC> your rather illogical temperment. Like the wolf in one of Aesop's
RC> fables, when you can't reach the grapes, you "default to concluding"
RC> that they must be sour.
UN-like the Fox (not a wolf) and the Grapes, I have no overweening
_desire_ for the grapes, like the Fox did. You suggest I learn the
basics that lead to me finding something that does not exist. Your
comparison is invalid; that is NOT the Fox-and-the-Grapes story's moral.
JB> Since it came from the Berlinski, have _you_ gotten the book
JB> and made any decision about his knowledge?
RC> Yes. He didn't know how to spell Leibniz. A few other minor errors
Well, finally....
RC> stand out after a cursory scanning. His style is atrocious, and I
His style is not "atrocious," it is almost _impenetrable_! (We
definitely agree here.)
RC> see how you could easily be misled by it (for instance, he seems
Misled by it? Haw! I spent WAY too much reading time trying to ignore
it --get _around_ it and pick out the pertinent explanations about the
calculus (which is why I bought it in the first place).
RC> insistent on denying that there are infinite or infinitesimal numbers
RC> in one place, while actually referring to works that define exactly
RC> those numbers elsewhere -- very sloppy). All in all, it is a poorly
Inconsistent, anyway, but I note you don't say he's exactly _wrong_ in
either case.... You think so?
RC> written work. All the knowledge in the world won't change THAT.
RC> I suggest you broaden your mathematical reading base *considerably*
This is fine, but please return to the original reason for you examining
the book: does he qualify as an 'authority' on the subject he's
addressing, or not? That is, is he as -wrong- as you thought he was,
from the fact that _I_ was using him as reference, or is he basically
correct, but just a terrible writer?
IYOW, would reading his exposition on what the calculus is and does
_worsen_ the understanding of someone newly trying to grasp what it is
and does? Does he make any fundamental _mistakes_ about the calculus?
RC> However, back to the issue of your claim about Leibniz, the main
RC> problem here is with YOU, John:
RC> Where did you get the preposterous notion that Leibniz thought of
RC> infinitesimals as discrete rather than continuous?
You mean, you got the Berlinski, read some, and _didn't_ read the pages
that started the whole reason for arguing about the Berlinski? Jeez,
Robert.... It was the Berlinski that led me to believe that. You have
to be led by the _nose_ through the text?
RC> When I asked you before, you were quick to blame Berlinski for that
RC> in addition to blaming him for your misspelling of Leibniz's name.
RC> Can't take responsibility for your own mistakes, can you?
You can't _possibly_ be saying Berlinski does NOT misspell Leibniz
"Leibnitz," can you? DID you read the damn thing, or didn't you?
How much subtle lying _do_ you do?
Neither of them were _my_ mistakes, Robert, as should be clear to you
now after reading the Berlinski book, wherein _both_ "mistakes" appear.
How dense -can- you be? DID you read it, at _least_ to find the two
things in it you've been blaming _me_ for? Yes? No? What do I have to
do, Robbie-boy? _scan_in_ the damn text itself?
Accuse me of egotistical refusal to back away from a wrong point all you
like. It's obvious you don't expect others to be able to do what you
cannot.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "You are trapped in that bright moment where you learned your doom."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: death
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:38:53
EID:0810 225644c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 27d08677
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced6
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> So where do you keep your prize-winning overinflated ego?
JB> I don't have one to keep.
RC> Ah, so it's merely an artful simulation? Two prizes, then!
RC> Bravo on the effective job you have done in thoroughly convincing
RC> so many different people in their various far-flung locales that
RC> your nonexistent ego is anything but.
"Thank you." {;-)
It's a side-effect, which has been with me all my life.
It doesn't seem to matter _what_ I do or how I do it; sooner or later
someone gets incensed and starts calling me egotistical. I'm used to it
after almost forty years of it. It 'just happens,' and after that
little super-deflating experience in Korea, I no longer bother myself
about it.
JB> One must know oneself pretty deeply before one can tell the
JB> difference between overinflated ego and hard-won self-knowledge
JB> in others. You're not seeing excessive ego in my text;
RC> So when you assert that if YOU are full of shit, it's only because
RC> somebody ELSE is full of shit (blaming Berlinski, for instance),
RC> what exactly is one seeing there in your text, John?
When I clearly _got_ the mis-spell _from_ Berlinski, and _you_ got the
Berlinski and _confirm_ that spelling's in there, and when the Berlinski
came up in the first place because I was claiming I got something from
the reading about math (which _you_ repeatedly and nastily suggested I
better do if I wanted to speak with *&%__you__%&* ("o, wise and superior
mathematical expert")), and when subsequently to these truths you
continue to claim all the mistakes were solely _mine_, well, Robert, I
wonder about your thinking ability.
If __I__ said something that was full of shit, and __you__ challenge me
on it, and I tell you where I read it, and you go out and find that yes,
indeed, both "errors" are definitely in the book that I read, then what-
the-hell do you _think_ was the case? I blamed Berlinski 'cause they
were obviously Berlinski's mistakes. I surely didn't _create_ the
mistakes out of thin air. Right? You DID read the Berlinski, didn't
you?
True egomaniacs assert they create their knowledge; that is _they_,
themselves, that are inspired and wise. People of lesser ego admit that
practically _everything_ they know came from somewhere else; that they
learned what they know, for good or ill, right or wrong, from others who
came before them. There's nothing egotistical about blaming a wrong
perception on its source, when that source is obviously not yourself.
JB> you're seeing relaxed self-expression. There is a difference.
RC> Don't tell me -- it's one of those infinitesimal differences, right?
In this case, the difference is far from infinitesimal. It does seem,
however, to be next to undetectable by certain parties in this echo.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Speed doesn't kill; running into slow things kills.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 22 Feb 97 08:56:23
EID:43e9 22564700
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 36dcd876
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89554657
On 21 Feb 97, Laurie Appleton wrote:
LA> Hi John,
LA> JB>(*sigh*) "Do not go to the elves with questions, for they will say
LA> both JB>'no' and 'yes.'"
LA> Is 'elves' an alternative name for evolutionist then?
In this case it's in reference to a pompous methematics type, in whose
message both 'no' and 'yes' appeared in comment on a subject we were
discussing.
LA> "Paleontologist (and evolutionary biologists in
LA> general) are famous for their facility in devising plausible
LA> stories; but they often forget that plausible stories need
LA> not be true."
LA> (Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology,
LA> Harvard University), Dr David M.Raup (Curator of Geology,
LA> Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago), J.John Sepkoski,
LA> Jr, (Department of Geological Sciences, University of
LA> Rochester, New York), Thomas J.M.Schopf (Department of
LA> Geolphysical Sciences, University of Chicago), and Daniel
LA> S.Simberloff (Department of Biology, Florida State
LA> University, Tallahassee), "The shape of evolution: a
LA> comparison of real and random clades". Paleobiology,
LA> vol.3(1), 1977, pp.34-35.)
********
(Are we in Holy_Smoke still? Yes?) Goodie:
Laurie, blow it out your lying,
Bible-Fundie, Sophist-Creationistic ASS.
I've seen FAR too much of your spamming out-of-context quote-posts over
the years now, to have any reason to be polite to you where I don't have
to be.
You are a liar, a science-hating fact-distorter, and a partial
abomination in the Sight of God. Your self-deluded Cretinist output is
enormous, considering the miniscule knowledge and independent thinking
ability of the mind it comes from.
No one disputes the accuracy of your quotes now (you learned _real_
quick that although lies could serve you, _baldfaced_ lies that could be
easily checked would not). But your distortions by means of out-of-
context quoting are both legendary and utterly reprehensible.
I am only mildly surprised that God has not done something about your
often unbelievably twisted understanding of matters scientific, or about
you freely Lying to many, many people --I suspect there's no room left
for Him in that overpressurized, dense and monomaniacal brain of yours.
Suffice it to say that while I may be polite to you in other echoes
where it's required, I have precious little desire to talk to you at all
in echoes where I may be free to express my less civilized thoughts
about you, your insane compatriots, or your completely unevidenced,
balderdashed-Bible-based False Belief System and its DIS-educating
effects on the people and the children of this or any Nation.
You are awfully, terribly wrong about evolution, Laurie, but I'm pretty
sure by now that you will never realize it, and are incapable of
realizing it.
May God forgive you and protect you from the wrath He vents on all
liars, because you, at least, "lie for the Lord of Hosts" rather than
for the Lord of the Flies.
[civilization mode back to ON]
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Mysticism: Music by God; Lyrics by anonymous, for solo performance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:18:50
EID:fff3 22564a40
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 8880cbcc
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330c5443
On 20 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 18 Feb 97 08:06:18, John Brawley got back to Marilyn Burge
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
JB> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
DC> You missed my response to Marilyn. It's actually in
(I did? I'm sorry. I'd have liked to have seen it.
Freeman Dyson has a book: _Infinite_in_ALL_Directions_
[emphasis mine --jb]. It's not much about math, tho'.
DC> three directions. And, after reading Curry's response,
DC> descrete in at least 2 of those directions. IOW, I
DC> suspect that there are an infinite number of "smallest
DC> non-zero numbers" depending on how the number sets are
DC> defined.
DC> Think about it.
I have, and still do. What it boils down to is the (scientifically)
unresolved question, "is reality discrete, continuous, or some as-yet
unrevealed combination of both?" (And its unspoken corollary, "will
_science_ ever be able to tell which?")
(IOW, I'm uninterested in what "math" does with these ideas; I am only
interested in what "reality" --"that which is"-- does with them.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Ask every question. Question every answer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:25:09
EID:d968 22564b20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 edea7354
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330c5b0b
On 20 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 17 Feb 97 06:59:33, John Brawley got back to Fredric Rice
JB> Be a little more critically-minded. If Laurie Appleton said that
JB> grass was green, you would deny it _because_ of the source? I don't
DC> However, he would check out the real evidence quite closely
DC> before agreeing with it.
Yup. But he doesn't do that with me.... Wonder why? (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Bother," said Pooh as he started to install Windows.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ignorant
|Date: 22 Feb 97 09:25:49
EID:1025 22564b20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5aba18ad
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1995cf28
On 20 Feb 97, Fredric Rice wrote:
jb> Uh.... Mine -was- a serious question....
FR> Due to your idiotic occultic superstitions, anything you say can't be
FR> taken seriously. Sorry. Hell, I might as well call you Bill Wolff
FR> since there seems to be not an iota of difference between you two.
jb> Broad brush you paint with, eh?
FR> Whatever you do, _DON'T_ read Skeptical Inquirer, the Jan/Feb 1997
FR> issue!
I'd rather. I dropped my subscription in 1993 or 4, 'cause it cost too
much for me then, and I miss it. Hard to find elsewhere, too.
(Have they got a _web_site??? Maybe I can read it there.
You know a URL for SkepInq?)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... And God said: E = mv - Ze/r ...and there *WAS* light!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BLOCKHEAD RITUALS
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:18:56
EID:898c 22565240
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a4306aa5
On 19 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Roger Hunter <=-
RC> Why are you wasting your time with Brawley when it comes to anything
RC> that touches upon his pet dogmas? I know that it's your time to waste,
RC> of course, but I'm just curious to know what if anything it does for
RC> you to beat your head against the brick wall of his ignorant egotism.
RH> It's because I assume that there is an intelligent human being on
RH> the other end of the modem who is suffering from a misconception
RH> which can be cleared up by a sufficiently clear explanation. It
RH> doesn't seem to work with John. This raises two possibilities;
RH> 1) My explanations are not clear
RH> 2) John is impossible to convince
RH> I have assumed 1) so far, but I'm starting to lean toward 2).
The fallacy of the excluded middle? Who'd have thought _you_ could fall
for _that_?
It's like creationists hollering 'there are only TWO possible scenarios:
Godless evolution and FIAT Creation!' (There is a third, of course,
called 'theistic evolution,' which they hate, if anything, more than
they hate "Godless evolution"; it removes their debate weapon,
"Godlessness" or anti-God-ism.)
In the case of 'my' preference for believing the universe to be
intelligent and perhaps self-aware, there are three possible
explanations: 1) You're not clear, presenting your antithesis, 2) I am
impossible to convince, and 3) it might actually be so.
This is related to the impossibility of arguing with _either_
Fundamentalistically-minded BibleThumpers (active God-believers) or
Fundamentalistically-minded AntiTheists (active God-DISbelievers,
erroneously calling themselves "atheists"). Neither position is
logically supportable, yet holders of both positions argue interminably.
I long since decided that there was, or was NOT, strictly scientific
evidence interpretable as supportive of one or the other position, and
my studies indicate the evidence is on the side of an 'intelligent
Universe.' I can now even logically "prove," from QM and nonlocality,
that the Universe _must_ be at least DEpendently intelligent, if we are
in it and are ourselves intelligent.
"Proving" whether or not it is _INdependently_ intelligent, however, is
quite a different animal.
In the main, though, Fundies accuse me of being antitheist, and atheists
accuse me of being Fundie, which I suppose is only logical of them: if I
ride the middle stream, and hence ain't one of them, I _must_ be the
other.
In truth, the practical difference between a Fundie mind-set and an
AntiTheist mind-set is apparently minimal; both think they "know"
something they cannot logically "know."
Agnosticism (or "pure" atheism) seems to be the only rational stance to
take, for most people. I, however, tend to move a little toward Theism,
for the above-mentioned reason(s).
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Reality-ometer: [......../] .....eeeee-YES!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 22 Feb 97 10:42:35
EID:f870 22565540
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5c0d7e74
REPLY: 1:3603/210 371aced7
On 20 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> Is that why you refuse?
RC> No. I refuse to satisfy your demands because you are a pompous twit.
(*guffaw!*)
RC> Besides, anyone with a bit of initiative could easily answer your
RC> question. Even you, theoretically speaking.
I had the answer. (From reading the Berlinski, actually.) But since
you appear to have such a need for super-precision, I thought it wise to
check with you to be sure that, if I used " [x,y] " or " (x,y) " in
some future post, it would not simply generate yet another irrelevant ad
hominem from you....
RC> So why are you making such pompous demands when you know that your
RC> egotistical behavior (or your amazingly successful emulation of same)
RC> is only going to result in people declining to cooperate with you?
RC> Think about it.
No, _you_ think about it. I don't need your _cooperation_, I'm simply
trying to put together a language you can be spoken to in without
raising brown in your eyes. It's like the common man approaching the
Priest; if you don't speak his exact language, he bites you. But if the
Priest doesn't say yea or nay when asked if this or that item of speech
is satisfactory to him, he can't _be_ spoken to. Perhaps that's your
goal anyway?
RC> JB>> _I_ suspect you can't do it, because no such definition
RC> JB>> exists in 'standard' math. Prove me wrong. Easy enough,
RC> JB>> if there is such a definition.
RC> If I were going to accede to your petulant demands,
RC> John, I'd have already produced a (very brief) definition
RC> by now. It's free for anyone else who requests it, but your
RC> egotistical attempts at manipulation will gain you nothing.
RC> Look it up. It's out there, and a reference librarian at
RC> any nearby university should be more than qualified to assist
RC> you in finding it if your own research skills are not up to
RC> the task.
Not if it ain't _there_, Robert. And given your ludicrous attitude, I'm
not going to waste search time on something, merely to entertain you
with thinking I'm on a wild goose chase.
RC> I never did, John. It is not my purpose in life to satisfy every
RC> last crackpot who insists that I prove him wrong. When you decide
RC> to support your own notions with something more substantial than
RC> your ridiculously ignorant blatherings, let me know. Until that
RC> time, I will continue to treat your petulant demands with contempt.
Then, since I can't support my notions with math language that does not
exist, I suppose this conversation is over.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Creationist graphs: Draw your curves first, then plot your data.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 22 Feb 97 11:20:07
EID:5794 22565a80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 91d69154
REPLY: 1:221/1503 330BE826
On 20 Feb 97, Ronald Vass wrote:
RV> scientists. > DG> Astrophysicist Paul Davies, in his 1984 book
RV> SUPERFORCE, stated, "The > DG> equations of physics have in them
RV> JP>.......a bunch of quotes......
RV> > DG> that I have for the existence of God.
RV> JP>This is the same sort of crap that Laurie Appleton comes up
RV> What this nut cases does , Like a 'Al S.' also did. Was NOT indicate
RV> that Paul Davies brings no mention that this is dealing with a
RV> Christian God. Paul D. assume's a god, but never mentions in any of
RV> his books dealing with this topic as to which god. It's left in the
The main conflict seems to arise when someone asks the question "do you
believe in God?" of someone else, and that someone else either says
"yes" or "no." Setting aside "no," (that conflict is obvious, and
different) the "yes" answer conveys no precise information. That is, by
answering the question with a 'yes,' the answerer does not inform the
questioner exactly what the answerer's concept of God _is_. In most
cases, I would suspect that the questioner goes away thinking, "good,
well, then, that answerer believes in the same concept of God as I do."
You point this out in essence above, and I give a personal example: If
asked by a Fundie, "John, do you believe in God?," I can easily answer
"yes." BUT if that Fundie knew my full _concept_ of God, he would most
definitely not agree with it, or think that I actually did believe in
God. For sure, it would not be the same concept he holds.
Likewise, I'm familiar with many of these "physicists writing about God"
books, and I have yet to find ONE that mentions any specific religion in
connection with the word "God" as used in the book in question.
Physics, and probably physicists in general, can approach claiming their
studies indicate to them _a_ God of some sort, but nothing in physics
leads any of them (that I've yet read) toward any specific pre-existing
religion's conceptualization of that Entity.
Nor has anything in physics led _me_ toward any pre-existing concept of
God. My "Quantum God Hypothesis" is pan-en-theistic, not "personalized"
in the sense that the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God is personalized. My
concept as easily forms itself to the Buddhist "Void," as to the AmerInd
"Great Mystery" or the J-C-M Biblical. It must, if correct, underlie
all previous formulations of concepts of "God" except those of the
uncritical, nonspecific Deists and the panentheists.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:39:00
EID:ab06 225764e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Rice <=-
>DR> How does one write "Fule Injector" in Dutch?
JB> Fuel Injector.
Otch! Silly me. I should have known. :-)
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JOE SHEDLOCK
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!)
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:40:00
EID:0857 22576500
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Joe Shedlock to David Rice <=-
>DR> Ms Etheridge wants to "attract a man" just about as much
>DR> as Liar Appleton wants an education. :-)
JS> Correct. So, she is not a good role model in terms of
JS> dress and hair style for women wanting to attract
JS> heterosexual men.
Women for the most part do not wish to "attract... men."
I find Ms Etheridge very attractive. :-)
... "You missed Laurie's favorites: the dodo and the parrot..." -- Joe S.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: PAUL WALKER
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 23 Feb 97 12:42:00
EID:0c8f 22576540
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Paul Walker to David Rice <=-
>DR> That's true. Atheism = "without theism," i.e. a lack of
>DR> belief in the gods. No faith involved.
PW> Faith that they don't exist?
Is this your first attempt at trying to write a complete
sentence? If so, it has failed utterly.
Please make another attempt. Thank you.
... Creationists have yet to win any scientific debates. Interesting, eh?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:02:00
EID:a8ac 22583840
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Jim Staal <=-
>JS> Let's have the stats on how many of these mothers
>JS> and babies 'die on the table'. I have renewed
>JS> respect for the Catholics.
It is my understanding, possibly false, that when there
is a choice between the life of a girl / woman and the
life of the fetus or (in late pregnancy) infant, the life
of the mother is usually saved.
DH> So-called 'Partial-birth abortion' is performed ONLY
DH> to save the life of a mother. I'm not surprised that
DH> you would lack the courage to make a tough decision
DH> in the real world. People on paramedic teams and in
DH> ER's make such decisions every day in triage. They
DH> don't just sit back and wait for god's will to let
DH> everyone die.
If the patient is conscious and refuses life-saving
treatment (religious "reason" or otherwise), the EMT's
just wait for the person to pass out and then leap on
her or him. No god has ever saved the life of someone,
as far as anyone can tell.
DH> As for the rate of death of mothers during childbirth,
DH> I don't have the stats and I'm too lazy to go after
DH> them. In 10 years working in hospitals, including L & D
DH> pdepartments, I never saw one. Perhaps Dr. Goldberg could
DH> offer more current data.
It depends on the nation one looks at, and regional data
within a particular nation. In North America, more people
(girls and women) die from child birth than from receiving
abortions, though this is changing for the worse because
the satanic asshole Fundy Christians are making accessible
and affordable prenatal health care more difficult to
aquire.
Since January 1, 1997 until present (end of February), the
Fundamentalist Christians have caused the USA Government to
cease its funding of contraceptive distribution and
reproductive health care in "third-world" nations. The
directory of the fund says that this stoppage of services
will cause 1/4 million more abortions over a three-month
period than would have been performed if the services had
not been suspended. The Fundamentalists Christians'
"reason" for having these services suspended? To "prevent
abortions." And did this service provide abortions in the
first place? No.
From a message I saved from several lears ago:
Each year at least a half-million women worldwide die from
pregnancy-related causes. Fully 99% of these deaths occur
in the Third World, where complications arising from
pregnancy and illegal abortions are the leading killers of
women in their 20s and 30s. The World Health Organization
(WHO) officials caution that maternal deaths -- those
resulting directly or indirectly from pregnancy within 42
days of childbirth, induced abortion, or miscarriage --
may ACTUALLY BE TWICE THE ESTIMATED FIGURES. What is more,
for every woman who dies, many more suffer serious, often
long-term health problems. That bearing life brings death
to so many women is a distressing irony. It is even more
distressing given that family planning and preventive
medicine could substantially reduce these loses.
MATERNAL MORTALITY RATIOS:
DEATHS PER 100,000 STUDY REGION
COUNTRY LIVE BIRTHS AND YEAR
========================================================
Ethiopia 3,500 *(1) Urban, 1984
Bangledish 3,000 *(2) National, 1983
Senegal 700 *(1) Rural, 1983
India 400-500 *(2) National, 1984
Egypt 190 Rural, 1983-83
Romania 175 National, 1982
Mexico 103 " 1978
Thialand 81 " 1981
Chile 73 " 1980
United States 10 *(1) " 1979
Norway 2 " 1981
___-------------------------------------------------------
*(1) Unknown whether deaths from abortion included.
*(2) Deaths from abortions not included
Source: World Health Organization Maternal Mortality Rates
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:14:00
EID:a8ac 225839c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Judith Bandsma <=-
-=> About a message of Judith Bandsma to Dave Hamilton:
>>DH> same frequency per 1,000,000 births that was
>>DH> previously dealt with by simply crushing the baby's
>>DH> head into a long pulpy cylinder with forceps. It
>>DH> was over exactly this issue that Canadian Catholic
>JB> I think it was either 42 or 46 NATIONWIDE last year.
Conversely, 1,000 times that number have died on the
nation's freeways and highways last year; 2,380 times
that amount will die from tobacco-related illnesses.
I bet that many Fundamentalist Christian "pro-lifers" grow
and sell tobacco. I suspect a few of them own some stock
with automobile manufacturers.
>JB> But if he STILL (after seeing a picture...or so he
>JB> says) thinks there's room enough for a pair of
>JB> scissors and a vacuum machine, he needs more than
>JB> glasses.
DH> Exactly. What appalling ignorance. I tangled with a
DH> goofy lunatic over in CHURCH&STATE for a few months
DH> last year about this. It's a classic case of believing
DH> in an urban-myth-with-an-agenda and being willing to use
DH> part-truths and lies to enforce the belief. Sickening.
"Sickening" is mild compared to the mendacity. Wilfully-
ignorant, ill-informed, grossly uneducated pea-brains are
striving mightily to dictate national policy and law. This
spells disaster and ruin for any nation.
... "You missed Laurie's favorites: the dodo and the parrot..." -- Joe S.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GOD DAN
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:23:00
EID:6b67 22583ae0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting God Dan to Ken Young <=-
-> On 12 Feb 97 13:09:58, Ken Young got back to David Rice
Hi God! Wow. I'm awed.
>>>KY> And how many cases of torture, rape and murder, can
>>>KY> you think of lately, that occurred in the name of
>>>KY> Christianity?
>>DR> Ever hear of Bosnia? Ireland? Jonestown? Waco?
>KY> The Bosnia situation
>KY> WIth Jonestown,
>KY> And with Waco,
GD> I noticed that you conveniently skipped over the
GD> "minor" problem in Ireland, pink boy.
Gee, God, you're right---- I didn't notice he failed to
waffle on that one as well.
However, I =DID= notice that in each case he used the "Not
Real True Christian" lie to hand-wave the problems away.
... If we believe in gods, then we shall commit atrocities...
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:32:00
EID:d315 22583c00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Ken Young <=-
>KY> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals,
>KY> as there is a big difference.
And notice I said black skin, and not black people: as there
is a big difference.
MG> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your
MG> stinking god punish homosexuality without punishing
MG> homosexuals.
Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
Robertson.
... Prove you love Jesus: kill a doctor for Him.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER
|Sub: USA CompuCensor Law
|Date: 24 Feb 97 07:35:00
EID:873b 22583c60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Terry Liberty-parker to All <=-
TL> It's Deja Vu!
Why, did you hallucinate more TANKS on the way?
... Mememto, terrigena. Mememto, vita brevis.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 08:46:00
EID:f667 225845c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Roger Hunter to Dan Ceppa <=-
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ken Young <=-
>>KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
>DC> Absolutely. Try me and show I'm wrong. You will lose,
>DC> pink boy.
RH> Ok, I'll bite. I can see a lesbian couple having babies as
RH> long as a sperm donor is available, but how can a male
RH> couple have a baby? Surrogate mothers are not part of the
RH> couple, after all.
Many homosexual couples are not the same gender.
... Science is to mysticism as a clove of garlic is to the vampire.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: How to Attract Men (LOL!)
|Date: 24 Feb 97 09:37:00
EID:41f2 22584ca0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Joe Shedlock <=-
The subject line still cracks me up.
>>DR> Ms Etheridge wants to "attract a man" just about
>>DR> as much as Liar Appleton wants an education. :-)
>JS> Correct. So, she is not a good role model in terms
>JS> of dress and hair style for women wanting to attract
>JS> heterosexual men.
RC> That's a non sequitur. Just because she isn't making
RC> an effort to attract heterosexual men does not mean
RC> she won't do so anyway. I find your attitude oddly
RC> naive.
I find Ms Etheridge attractive and physically desirable.
She's also short enough to fit in my boat's V-berth with
me--- another plus. :-) Though I admit that I am partial
to the photograph of her where she has long hair and is
wearing lace.
... I can't be a priest--- I don't like little boys
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LANGSTON GOLDFINCH
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 24 Feb 97 09:58:00
EID:a247 22584f40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Langston Goldfinch to Dan Ceppa <=-
>DC> Of people born in 1809, 100% who believed in god are dead!
LG> Dan, out of curiosity, knowing the nature of skeptics
LG> these days, has anyone asked for proof of this? I mean,
LG> did you actually track down ALL the people born that
LG> year and KNOW than they all are dead?
How many 188-year-olds do you met every day?
... In the event of the Rapture, expect world ignorance to drop 100%
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: amazon.com
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:15:00
EID:b89a 225851e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to David Rice <=-
>DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
>DR>
>DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted World"
>DR> by Dr. Sagan.
DW> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have a copy.
And you didn't share it with the rest of us?!?!? (i.e.
type it all in and post it.)
I finished the book Sunday afternoon. I got freaked out and
all goose-bumpily when I read the chapter on the succubi:
he described my ordeal exactly, even down to mentioning the
Goddess Lilith! I wish to Hell this book had been
around when I was 13 or 14 years old when I needed it.
When I was 13 or 14 years old, at night I would feel some
demon sitting on my chest, forcefully dragging "me" out of
my body and hauling "me," while I kicked and screamed, to
some unknown place. The first 30 or 40 times this occured
(over the span of many months), I always "woke up" before
we got to the destination. I avoided sleep as much as
possible during this time.
One night "I" was dragged to the destination and met a
Woman named "Lilly" who lived in a underground cave on
the edge of a ocean. After that I went willingly. :-)
It was quite a strange feeling reading my experiences
written by someone I've never met. I can see why Carl
Gustav Jung, et al, considered the possibility of a
"collective unconscious."
... Hail Stargoat! He could kick Yahweh's butt any day.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK KIMES
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:28:00
EID:bae2 22585380
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark Kimes to Martin Goldberg <=-
>>KY> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual
>>KY> orientation.
Golly. Seems to me that direct observation shows that one's
religious "choice" VASTLY depends upon what nation one is
born in, and the epoch one is born to.
>MG> Are you kidding us, Jelly? This logic simply does [not]
>MG> follow.
MK> "If one's religion is a choice, so is one's shoe size."
"His feet are too big for his shoes!" -- Foot Soldier
... Great head knowledge lets demon Pride and Satan get in. -- J. Staalin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK O'NEILL
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 24 Feb 97 10:31:00
EID:f1f2 225853e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark O'neill to Ken Young <=-
>>RH> Because Christians are harmful to others and are
>>RH> Christians by choice. Homosexuality is neither.
>KY> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
MO> While there may be violent gays/lesbians, I've yet
MO> to come across one. Gay people seem to be a lot more
MO> placid and "civilized" than your average christian.
MO> An interesting statistic would be a cross-section of
MO> both