God Damned Fundies!
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 25 Feb 97 21:24:43
EID:fff3 2259ab00
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 134eacbf
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33105e83
On 23 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 21 Feb 97 06:55:24, John Brawley got back to David Worrell
JB> I was referring to Hector's response,
DW> Could it be that you *still* don't know who you're talking to? Oh,
DW> wait.. you knew all along, right?
JB> I caught the hint earlier, but ignored it. My assumption was always
DC> See, David, he knew it all along but ignored it!
"Earlier" was barely a week ago. Before that, I had no idea Mark Kimes
was "Hector Plasmic."
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Mysticism: Music by God; Lyrics by anonymous, for solo performance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 02:26:06
EID:32d2 225a1340
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33139f3e
-> On 23 Feb 97 11:02:06, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
-> On 21 Feb 97 05:12:42, Laurie Appleton got back to John Brawley
DC> JB>(*sigh*) "Do not go to the elves with questions, for they will say
DC> both JB>'no' and 'yes.'"
LA> Is 'elves' an alternative name for evolutionist then?
DC> There you go, John, you've collected your first groupie.
JB> yyAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!
JB> (Run away! Run away!)
As much as I do hate to repeat myself:
Think about it, John.
... If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lies...
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:43:24
EID:e722 225a8d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314763c
-> On 23 Feb 97 08:16:58, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> Perception? No. If God was such a truly unique, all-powerful,
RS> being of CLARITY, there'd be only one version of him --
JS> There is only one version: Jesus Christ.
Throwing away his Big Daddy and the Holy Spook idea, I see.
... Jim's IQ test results came back negative.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:49:41
EID:db45 225a8e20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331477b5
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:23:54, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> grace I demonstrated in my statement. BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23
JS> NIV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
DC> Therefore, Jimbo, you cannot pray to your god. It's not allowed.
DC> After all, oh Brain Dead one, your bible says so.
JS> Evidence????
The evidence that you are brain dead is abundant. The evidence
that supports my statement is in the book you thump. It's
your book, you find. After all, it's patently clear that
you don't have a clue about the book you worship. It's high
time you actually read the bullshit that you have swallowed.
... Instead of being born again, why not just grow up?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:15:29
EID:6028 225ab1e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b601
-> On 21 Feb 97 07:58:18, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
DC> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG> Another high liver, I see.
DC> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG> It gets bladder and bladder...
DC> Just colon can we keep this shit up?
RS> Until we've rectum?
Darned nearly killed him, in fact. Thought all that would
be left was sausage casings.
... "Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." Yoda
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:17:06
EID:f90b 225ab220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b662
-> On 21 Feb 97 08:37:40, Martin Goldberg got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>>>> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
DC>>>> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG>>>> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC>>> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG>>> Another high liver, I see.
DC>> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG>> It gets bladder and bladder...
DC> Just colon can we keep this shit up?
MG> I'll let you know enemanute.
Just r-exlax and take your time.
... "You saw God?" "Er, yes...and she's black, sir."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:19:33
EID:1472 225ab260
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b6f5
-> On 21 Feb 97 14:09:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
She could always bring home the pigs' feet instead.
... Bobbitt theme song: "Half the man I used to be."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:47:54
EID:1c3c 225ab5e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314bd9a
-> On 21 Feb 97 20:41:08, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> there are an infinite number of "smallest non-zero numbers"
DC> depending on how the number sets are defined.
RC> Brawley has a hard enough time figuring out how to deal with two
RC> answers ("no" in the general case, but "yes" in some specially
RC> Might as well flee to Mordor for mercy, compared to what he gets here.
Which is why you have been elevated to High Mathematician of
the Elvenkind, for sure. May you avoid the Balrog on this
incarnation, Glofindel.
... "Ignorance is free but it exacts an enormous price." Marty Leipzig
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:56:26
EID:1c4a 225ab700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314bf9a
-> On 18 Feb 97 10:23:00, Norman Solomon got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Impress us some more. Tell us you are Chris Green in disguise.
DC> That should surely "Wow!" us.
NS> Who on earth is "Chris Green"?
A fellow countryman of yours that you are probably better off
not knowing.
... The stronger the supernatural beliefs, the worse the inhumanity.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Frugel Gormet: Christian child rapist
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:59:50
EID:173e 225ab760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c066
-> On 22 Feb 97 03:00:07, Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa
dc> I'd prefer if he pulled his own plug. I'm not in favor of
dc> capital punishment. However, there are times that I do
dc> see the need.
FR> Well, maybe we'll get O. J. to pull the plug. That'll at least be
FR> something. }:-}
I understand that you should be able to reach OJ at his Internet
address: ...com
BTW, I'm trying to get additional info on the Smith case, but
I'll have to research a pone number at work tomorrow.
... Every fundy flamed enlightens the world.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:04:23
EID:3fc2 225ab880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c177
-> On 21 Feb 97 19:16:06, ROBERT CURRY got back to KEN YOUNG
BB> And if he chooses not to go?
KY> Everyone that does not choose God, chooses to go to Hell.
RC> Like everyone who does not choose Hitler, chooses the gas chamber.
You have been a source of not only great ripostes but great
taglines to go with them in this packet.
Thanks for adding to my FUNDY.TXT file.
... "Bother," said Pooh as he chanted the Black Mass.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:14:30
EID:197a 225ab9c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c3d6
-> On 21 Feb 97 20:41:07, ROBERT CURRY got back to FREDRIC RICE
FR> No please! Don't send me into the same class as Brawley!
FR> I'll promise to learn how to add, I swear!
RC> OK. What's one star plus three squares?
LOL! It's circle, of course!
RC> I've been teaching my goddaughter some abstract algebra and group
RC> theory; she likes almost any of these math games.
I think I remember doing the same or something similar to that
way back when. And, yes, it's fun to get the kids interested
in things like that, especially when you see the light-bulbs
click on.
RC> + | triangle square circle star
RC> ----------+-------------------------------------------
RC> triangle | triangle square circle star
Is there a direct multiplication table that fits the model?
... "God doesn't exist, and Mary is his mother." --James Joyce
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:20:03
EID:32d2 225aba80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c523
-> On 22 Feb 97 03:56:23, John Brawley got back to Laurie Appleton
JB> Laurie, blow it out your lying,
JB> Bible-Fundie, Sophist-Creationistic ASS.
JB> You are a liar, a science-hating fact-distorter, and a partial
JB> abomination in the Sight of God.
Close, John. Laurie is a complete abomination to anyone
with the capacity to think. He counts on those that are
indoctrinated into his cult to support him.
... David Duke: Sheet for brains.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:29:01
EID:32d2 225abba0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c73d
-> On 22 Feb 97 04:18:50, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
JB> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
DC> You missed my response to Marilyn. It's actually in
I only added a minimum of 1 infinite direction. However,
with Curry's response, I expanded that to an infinite
number of smallest infinites.
JB> Freeman Dyson has a book: _Infinite_in_ALL_Directions_
JB> [emphasis mine --jb]. It's not much about math, tho'.
Not having read the book, I can't comment on what he wrote.
DC> suspect that there are an infinite number of "smallest
DC> non-zero numbers" depending on how the number sets are
DC> Think about it.
JB> I have, and still do. What it boils down to is the (scientifically)
JB> unresolved question, "is reality discrete, continuous, or some as-yet
JB> unrevealed combination of both?" (And its unspoken corollary, "will
JB> _science_ ever be able to tell which?")
Only the data will tell. However, the data of the infinitely
large and infinitely small depend on mathematics to formulate
a model to explain the reality of what is observed.
JB> (IOW, I'm uninterested in what "math" does with these ideas; I am only
JB> interested in what "reality" --"that which is"-- does with them.)
Unfortunately, you have no choice. You cannot encompass the
universe on a space voyage and see where you end up. Neither
can you hold a single atom, let alone a quark in your hand and
study it.
You can only go where you can describe with the mathematics
that you abhor.
... "Who cares? It's all relative anyway...." Einstein
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Christanic slavery
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:34:29
EID:15b5 225abc40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c885
-> On 23 Feb 97 06:44:26, Steve Quarrella got back to Fredric Rice
SQ> Saturni dies February 22 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Darryl Gonzalez:
DG>> Slavery's over, man, get over it! In this country, as I said above,
it
SQ> I wonder if this guy knows who "Jim Crow," "Rosa Parks," and "Martin
I know know how to spell her name 'Rosa' not 'Ruth'.
Does that count?
... Of _course_ you can trust the government... just ask the Indians.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:41:30
EID:033f 225abd20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314ca2a
-> On 23 Feb 97 02:22:01, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
MB> My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
MB> post (presumably taunting all us nasty heathens) that we
MB> couldn't create even one atom. Then, only a couple of days
MB> later, he said that Man (that's ALL OF US, folks) created
MB> disease.
Do you have a copy of either on file? Preferably the former,
as I think I may have missed that. It'll add to my new
file, Jelly.cre!
MB> Now, just how can we create all those microorganisms without
MB> even creating one little itty-bitty atom? Quite a trick.
MB> That makes us even better than his gawd.
It's all in the slight of hand and making sure the man
behind the curtain isn't seen.
BTW, that reminded me as to how the priest used to come and
go from the back of the church to serve mass. I don't think
I've ever seen those curtains left open.
... It is difficult to prophesize, especially about the future.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Homosexual Christians
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:46:17
EID:5b05 225abdc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314cb49
-> On 21 Feb 97 09:34:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>KY> Yep..[sic] Can a homosexual couple, naturally,
>KY> have a baby?
DR> How fuckingly bizarre. Ken defines "natural lifestyle" as
DR> one where reproduction takes place. That means I myself, a
It's necessary, per his book of lies. It's the one that
says, "Go forth and multiple." As it stands, they can't
even do basic math.
DR> I know a holosexual couple have had produced two children.
Was it done on the holo-deck? :)
I'll have to ask the two girls that I know if either/or or
both have ever had children.
... "Alex, we'll take Assimilated Races for $100." -Borg Jeopardy
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:32:08
EID:4fde 225b0400
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d608
-> On 19 Feb 97 09:49:36, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> For every scriptural verse, there is an equal and
DC> RS> opposite scriptural verse...
DC> If you haven't read it, get _The Mind of the Bible-Believer_
DC> by Edmund D. Cohen. It's not 2 verses that do it to them
DC> but a triad of them that all together in which the third
RS> Thank ye for this reference :) :)
Don't thank me yet. It's a pretty tough read. It helps
if you have had at least a course or two in psychology.
Even then, it's still not easy.
I "earned" my copy by making Marilyn's copy to damned
dog-eared to return. (At least now I can mark it up
to my heart's content!)
... +Origin: STHUPPING NETWORK: Bendin' 'em over, grabbin' ankles for Hayz
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:37:07
EID:a3bf 225b04a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d733
-> On 19 Feb 97 10:26:14, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
DC> Absolutely.
DC> Try me and show I'm wrong. You will lose, pink boy.
RS> Something about a gay couple, one male and one female :) :)
And a partner of either that plays around "experimenting"
on the non-gay side!
... Religion cannot sink lower than when it is raised to a state religion.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: God Dan
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:42:12
EID:db7f 225b0540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d864
-> On 24 Feb 97 02:23:00, DAVID RICE got back to GOD DAN
-=> Quoting God Dan to Ken Young <=-
DR> Hi God! Wow. I'm awed.
As you should be! LOL!
>>DR> Ever hear of Bosnia? Ireland? Jonestown? Waco?
>KY> The Bosnia situation
>KY> WIth Jonestown,
>KY> And with Waco,
GD> I noticed that you conveniently skipped over the
GD> "minor" problem in Ireland, pink boy.
DR> Gee, God, you're right---- I didn't notice he failed to
DR> waffle on that one as well.
He tries his best. However, to many people keep archives.
Technology is the bane of fundys. He's not even close
to being an exception.
DR> However, I =DID= notice that in each case he used the "Not
DR> Real True Christian" lie to hand-wave the problems away.
After all, there is only "One True Xian". That's the one
of the multitude that claim they are that "one" and all the
other xians aren't.
... "I, God Dan, don't require you to send money to me for your souls."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:00:48
EID:582d 225b0800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314dcc0
-> On 21 Feb 97 14:51:50, Ken Young got back to Rod Swift
RS> Skin colour can be a choice too, dear boy.
KY> There is something to be said for sticking with what you naturally
KY> have. Many people are black, that is how it was meant to be, and we
KY> are not change that.
Your bigotry is shining through your sugar coating, pink boy.
It's far brighter than the "son of god" you follow.
KY> I would say that you should be what you were made to be. If you were
Made to be what, bigot?
KY> created white, stay that way. If you were made male, stay that way.
KY> And if you were made heterosexual, as we all were, stay that way.
All that's left of you is the cross that you willingly stuck
up your ass. Your true putrid beliefs are exposed by your
very own statements.
... Physical abusive misogynistic sexually frustrated bigoted asshole.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Rat finds Food at End of Maze
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:08:11
EID:febd 225b0900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314de7b
-> On 23 Feb 97 19:17:16, Dave Hamilton got back to Richard Smith
DH> A 59-year-old Catholic Priest has been charged with Child
DH> Molestation over incidents occurring between 1991 and 1993.
DH> The parents originally reported the item to officials in
DH> the Church, where they were assured that the issue would
Unfortunately, that was a mistake on their part. The parents
expected justice and got as religious answer.
DH> the pastor still has his position. He has NOW been charged
DH> by police.
Now, to keep the bastard there and make him stand trial
for his crimes.
... Question authority before they question YOU!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Websites Etc.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:22:51
EID:1ec3 225b0ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314e1eb
-> On 20 Feb 97 16:11:44, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> ROFL! :) Have you reconsidered the perspective of being a god,
DC> RS> God Dan?
DC> Not in the least.
RS> It's just with all that deity sex being gay, we thought you might want
RS> to reconsider being a deity, just for a bit :)
I'm the God of a Different Color!
DC> And, in my case, I've got a few goddesses in mind for a different
DC> scenario!
RS> Oh, that's ok then :)
Thank you for your approval. Not that I needed it, but it
gave me a laugh! Then again, at least one of those Godessses
is there when I need to talk, dance, or shoot darts.
RS> Rod "... just scratch my whole line of questioning then" Swift :)
Never, ever!!! stop questioning. To do so means one of two things:
1: You died.
2: You became fundy and should have died.
To me, the first is infinteley (Brawley) far more preferable.
... The day I stopped learning is the day I died....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Bernie
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:16:49
EID:1366 225b1200
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314ee91
-> On 25 Feb 97 08:53:37, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa
JB>> or would you rather play silly games with this as well?
DC> What the hell. Let's play John's game and be silly!
DW> Sounds like fun to me. :)
As my friend would say:
Mus'n't get sthilllly!
(more after Monday night darts and I tell her what I
told you for her and she slaps me upside the head!)
... Burn In Hell brand Fundy Chips - From Waco, TX
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:21:47
EID:32d2 225b12a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314efbb
-> On 23 Feb 97 11:03:17, John Brawley got back to Richard Smith
RS> JB> 6 - 8 = -2
JB> [-3][-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
JB> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
RS> DC> Try using your 'logic' with 6 - 6, John. The answer,
RS> DC> according to what you typed above, is [+1]
JB> (*) Dan's got me so far, on this one, even though with marbles, his
I didn't "get" you. John. I showed you were you went
seriously wrong.
JB> method won't work. First time he's partly succeeded. But I'm still
Partialy? Like in "Quantum Gods can't do that"?
JB> looking for a way around it that doesn't float the definitions all the
JB> way outta the room. Stay tuned!
Try tuning in the next time. Your band has been fading in
and out and you are missing the needed feed.
... 7.194436287473 : the inverse cosh of the Beast
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:25:39
EID:4815 225b1320
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314f0a3
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:22:25, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> RS> In the fact it is perjorative.
JS> Perjorative is a noun.
RS> You so sure, Mr Erudite?
JS> Yes.
JS> In the first place, I didn't spell it that way. Mr. Swift did. And in
Look above, Dipshit One. You did.
DC> You just lost your buck private membership "English Major".
JS> And you lost your soul.
Oh, fucking wow, that hurts.
Good thing I'm a God and your god is a piece of shit that
doens't matter.
... Pray for Jim Staal (see Psalm 137:9)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing list for jus
|Date: 26 Feb 97 13:50:03
EID:c089 225a6e40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33143fa6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 e82bc060
PID: GED3 2.5
24 Feb 97 13:17, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Brawley's the loaded one here... ask him for the money.
JB> Where'd you get that idea? I ain't "loaded"; I'm just barely able to
JB> avoid working, is all.
Ah... another welfare recipient. I figured as much.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:08:09
EID:0bed 225a7100
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331443ea
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3136be1b
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 17:06, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP> Don't play God with human cloning,
It's much more fun to play Patton with TANKS.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:12:19
EID:9a85 225a7180
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331444e6
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89691708
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Feb 97 08:46, Laurie Appleton wrote to David Worrell:
LA>> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
LA>> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
LA>> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
LA>> intelligent Designer."
LA>> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
DW>> What part of the word "superficially" are you having
DW>> trouble with?
LA> None what ever.
THen you're even more stupid than I originally gave you credit for.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:15:29
EID:6695 225a71e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331445c3
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33135f37
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 21:52, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
KY>>> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have
KY>>> also been involved in other things I am strongly against, such
KY>>> as NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
DW>> I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato plant
DW>> before. Or any "wild" vegetable, for that matter.
SQ> We MIGHT have a Corn Flakes King on our hands...
I do hope so.
SQ> I can't believe that this Procter and Gamble thing is STILL going on.
SQ> Maybe this guy still believes that the sun revolves around the Earth,
SQ> too.
Once allegations of a satanic conspiracy get out, the fundies refuse to
let go of them. P&G will probably *always* be plagued by this shit.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:16:34
EID:6e08 225a7200
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33144613
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33135fca
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 21:53, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
KY>>> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the
KY>>> most superior beings out there.
SQ> Who is making the assumption? You, or him?
Who do you think? :)
DW>> Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we
DW>> (humanity) are the "most superior beings out there."
SQ> Well, shit, d‚j… vu. I wonder if Ken here has ever wrestled with a
SQ> polar bear.
I get the feeling that an anorexic rat terrier would give Ken a run for
his money. I doubt a polar bear would even notice him. :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:21:32
EID:1530 225b82a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b4d1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331445c3
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> We MIGHT have a Corn Flakes King on our hands...
DW> I do hope so.
"Science is evil! I want it stopped!"
SQ>> I can't believe that this Procter and Gamble thing is STILL going on.
DW> Once allegations of a satanic conspiracy get out, the fundies refuse
to
DW> let go of them. P&G will probably *always* be plagued by this shit.
Didn't they sue someone last year over this shit?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: RIC CARTER
|Sub: Shroud of Turin
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:29:14
EID:b649 225b83a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b682
REPLY: 1:2002/2002 7ccecf06
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, RIC!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit RIC CARTER ad JAN DEBOER:
RC> Isn't that, *Turin* Guide ?? #8-)
I STILL think I'm going to go to Rome in 2000 to see this thing when the
Vatican puts it on display. Ought to be worth the money just to watch some
of the people going batshit over it. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:42:12
EID:82ca 225b8540
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b99e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0425da83
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marilyn!
Jovis dies February 27 1997, Dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
MB> He said that the thing about P&G being satanist was probably a
MB> fable, but that he doesn't like some of their policies (of course,
MB> he never stated what policies he dislikes, or why).
Enquiring minds want to know...
MB> ... That's the problem with the gene pool...No lifeguards
Shit, no -chlorine!-
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christanic slavery
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:43:36
EID:03b3 225b8560
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b9d9
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3314c885
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
DG>>> Slavery's over, man, get over it! In this country, as I said above,
SQ>> I wonder if this guy knows who "Jim Crow," "Rosa Parks," and "Martin
DC> I know know how to spell her name 'Rosa' not 'Ruth'.
DC> Does that count?
Yeeeee...no.
DC> ... Of _course_ you can trust the government... just ask the Indians.
Yeah, white eyes! Get a move-on!
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella de Vil
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:44:20
EID:78da 225b8580
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315ba0c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3314ca2a
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Marilyn Burge:
MB>> My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
I was wondering why folks were calling him "Jelly." :)
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:45:18
EID:56d6 225b85a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315ba74
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33144613
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
KY>>>> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the
KY>>>> most superior beings out there.
SQ>> Who is making the assumption? You, or him?
DW> Who do you think? :)
Sorry, I was playing Hamlet and speaking rhetorically.
DW>>> Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we
DW>>> (humanity) are the "most superior beings out there."
You've got to wonder whether all the animals laugh at us at the Noah's Ark
reunions. "People are so stupid...they create tools with which to destroy
themselves." :-/
Jelly...
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:30:00
EID:4697 225a8bc0
David and Lynda were killing time yakking about ...:
Damned software (ok, it was me, but...)
This was supposed to go to you:
LB> Richard and David were killing time yakking about ...:
RS> Dav? She was inviting your next assinine claim. Go ahead,
RS> just open your mouth. I'm sure one will float out.
DR> You're sure? Like real sure? Then go sit in the corner and talk
DR> with the rest of the zerotheistfundies. Leave me alone as I am a waste
DR> of your time.
LB> Hehe...a new tagline for your file...
LB> On a totally unrelated subject, could you netmail me from your
LB> archives the exchange between Al and me on the Dark Ages? I know you
LB> said you had my commentary, if you have HIS assertions which sparked
LB> it, I'd like those as well. There was an online friend who does not
LB> participate here in Holysmoke who helped point me to some resources
on
LB> the subject that is requesting to see the outcome. :) Thanks.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ ABORT,RETRY, GET THE SHOTGUN AND SHOOT THE DAMNED THING
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Hermaphrodititry
|Date: 26 Feb 97 12:54:27
EID:ffbe 225a66c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33148d5c
Jan deBoer said "Freedom of choice" to Ken Young,
adding:
Jd> And what advice do you have for those who find themselves fully
Jd> outfitted with a penis, testicles, a vagina, and a set of breasts?
Jd> Can you say hermaphrodite? Your all-knowing god seems to have
Jd> overlooked those individuals - no mention of them in your bible, eh
Jd> Ken? Was the topic a little too complex for god?
Jd> Tell us, oh wise imbecile, at what point in utero do the
Jd> hermaphrodites make the conscious decision to have it both ways?
Jd> Oh, and Ken - marriage - which sex should a hermaphrodite marry?
Why another hermaphrodite, of course:
One lusty hermaphrodite, Bloom,
Found another one up in his room,
They argued all night
As to who had the right
To do what, with which, and to whom.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: Apologies to regulars
|Date: 26 Feb 97 12:55:15
EID:1469 225a66e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33148d5d
Bryson Hughes said "asaity" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
MG> But you forgot that before god could tell him anything,
MG> the god had to exist.
BH> Ok we can talk about the existance of God if you like.
MG> Do you have any evidence that a god exists? Any at all?
BH> However, in a case of the honest skeptic, I doubt that
BH> I could produce the evidence of what I know. There
BH> would be a couple of reasons. One would be my own
BH> limited ability to convey abstract ideas in a
BH> compressed space of time; the other due to the
BH> uninitiated or unprepared state that my skeptic friend
BH> would be in, to absorb the full impact of what I show
BH> to him.
Ah, the old "my transmitter is _fine_, but your receiver
is not up to the job" ploy. You go on to offer stuff like
prophecy tracking, that you apparently find substantive, as
possible evidence. For those of us who regard such things as
a literary exercise at best, here is one opportunity for
direct evidence of your pet deity that seems to be largely
ignored by theists:
Personally, I have said many times that I would welcome ANY
evidence of the existence of any god, and I have even specified
indirect evidence that would be quite convincing, not only to
me, but (I suspect) to all the wicked atheists here: the residue
of the Noachan Flood. It avoids the problem of "how can there be
physical evidence for a spiritual being?" by focussing on one
instance in which that spiritual being supposedly interacted
physically with the physical world in a way that would have
produced distinctive physical consequences. While we have seen
fundies claim that their god is so deceitful as to cover his
tracks, I, for one, would presume that such a dishonest being is
unworthy of being taken seriously, much less of worship.
I do not concern myself here with the issue of the needed
two additional hydrospheres of water and its drainage out of
earth's gravity well, nor with the necessary consequences
resulting therefrom by operation of the laws of physics: the
atmospheric pressure resulting from a "vapor canopy" that would
prevent the existence of life as we know it, the heat release
from the condensation of that much water that would be
sufficient to melt lead anywhere in the atmosphere, etc. are
very serious impediments to the veracity of the story, but most,
if not all, fundies lack sufficient knowledge of physics to be
able to follow the reasoning. It only confuses them, leading
them to drag out yet another version of the Deceitful God, who,
they claim, sets the laws of physics aside his wonders to
perform. Instead, I simply take the Genesis account at its face
value, looking at the effects that much water falling at that
rate would inescapably have upon the face of the earth.
We have an account of a global flood directly produced by
Yahweh in the Bible. Given the fact that we have information,
presumably from a source inspired by omniscience, of the extent
of the flood ("over the highest mountains," or roughly 30,000
feet above present sea level) and of the time of the rain (40
days and 40 nights = 40 24-hour days = 960 hours), it is easy to
calculate the rate of the rainfall: 30,000/960 = 31.25 feet of
water fell per hour. That is little better than six inches of
rainfall per minute.
I would think that "gullywasher" fails to do this rate
justice, inasmuch as that term is applied to rainfalls of one or
two inches per hour. Suffice it to say that this rain would wash
away pretty much any particles smaller than Volkswagens and
deposit all of this in a single stratum covering the low-lying
areas world-wide.
We know from geology that floods leave evidence in direct
proportion to their size (this stratum would, for instance, be
far thicker than any other ever created and would cover all the
area on earth with its thickness varying in inverse proportion
to altitude), and we further know from the mechanics of
disposition of suspended solids in fluids the type and extent of
the stratum that would be laid down by a global flood. Those
larger particles would lie at the bottom of the stratum, with
progressively smaller bits covering them. In addition to that,
the contents of that stratum, the remains of ALL creatures
mingled together under optimal conditions for fossilization
(heavy sedimentation at great depths, with the finest materials
thickly sealing the top) are known: in short, a universal unique
event would produce a universal unique outcome--a stratum like
no other in the geologic column.
Such a stratum would furnish perfectly good indirect
evidence for the existence of this Yahweh person, just as
tracings on a photographic plate tell us of subatomic particles
or the behavior of objects in space tells us of the existence of
enormous gravitational forces only explicable by the presence of
a black hole.
So show us this stratum. That would be evidence.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: 10 foot high and rising!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:41:54
EID:5f47 225a7520
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a830
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a753d
David Ragland said "10 foot high and rising!" to Becke Boyer,
adding:
BB>asked, "So where did the water go?" ;)
DR> Where does the water from _any_ flood go? If the polar ice caps
DR> were melted, would that not lead to a global deluge?
It would lead to an increase in sea level of about 300
feet: bad news for Baltimore and Manhattan, but lacking some
five miles in depth needed for covering the "highest
mountains of the world".
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:53:58
EID:4807 225a7ea0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a831
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a751c
David Ragland said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
DC>You sure are, Fuck.
DR> Forget to take your tranquilizers? Are you suffering with
DR> Tourette's Syndrome perhaps?
[patronizing excretia deletia]
Not at all. It is just that your prose, your pose, and
your (for want of a better term) thinking processes are
strongly reminiscent of a former echo participant who called
himself, among other things, Captain Fuck.
Later, you say to Richard Smith:
RS> IF Einstein ever said such a thing, he was being bamboozled.
DR> Well that wraps it! Now you are calling an intellectual giant a
DR> dummy.
Since when does the state of "being bamboozled" =
"stupid"? You apparently suppose that it does, yet great
intelligence is no guarantee that one will not be deceived.
Yuri Geller bamboozled a whole lot of very bright scientists
before being shot down by magician James Randi (an expert in
bamboozling, if you will). Does that make all those
scientists stupid? No, it simply means that they did not
deal very well with being lied to.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Cross Posting???
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:08:55
EID:d2ae 225a8100
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a832
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 33137f24
-=> Quoting Norman Solomon to All <=-
NS> I would like some advice please.
NS> I have discovered that I can post things I read in here to other
NS> {Fido} echo's. Is this OK?
Cross post (and dress) to your heart's content. When
your nice-eared countrymen take up their scythes and
pitchforks in response to the language and ideas common
here, it will be to your house that they come.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:53:55
EID:7aaf 22599ea0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dec4fa
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33102d27
MG>> Did anybody ever ask him what bible verses were instructing
MG>> him to hate the catholic church?
SQ> Doesn't he have those on his web page?
I didn't read the whdo thing. I didn't have the time. Suffice it to say
that there is enough there that the most stalwart christian will believes
that he's a wacko.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Call Jim NOW!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:55:07
EID:25ab 22599ee0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dec70c
DR> A few years ago a Fundamentalist Muslim said "Anyone who
DR> changes water into wine is an infidel." Jesus is now
DR> stewing in Hell forever and ever without end. Golly.
It matters not what's in the news,
only in the god you choose.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:57:02
EID:acbf 22599f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75decbac
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 8fdda192
NS> discussion of God is desirable, but if it is possible. I
NS> contend that it is possible as to whether this is desirable
NS> is quite another matter.
NS> What is your view?
My view is that without evidence that a god exists, all discussion is moot.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:58:00
EID:6ca6 22599f40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75decf43
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aab90
RS> Thank you for this affirmation, Martin. Ken is arguing a premise
RS> that "there is only one 'right' sexual orientation" and the
RS> conclusion "it's his".
RS> The premise is wrong, and hence the conclusion is also wrong.
Homosexuality, while not normal (since it is not the sexual preference of
most) is natural. Therefore, anyone that hates for homosexual preference
is
1. Not a christian
2. A moron
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Double Standard Ken!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:59:22
EID:a2b9 22599f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ded393
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330c49c6
RS> Yes. I was there when it all happened. I wonder what will
RS> happen to next year's funding application and grant?
I hope that the faculty at the med school will tell the county commissioners
what to do. Our kid came home with a bit from school that they were going
to teach some stuff on AIDS and so forth. The jiest is that they will teach
abstance AND the right way to apply a condom. We don't live in Dallas,
and it seems to me that the Dallas schools could take a lesson fromt his.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:01:23
EID:bcdb 2259a020
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dedd33
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 864b3ce0
MG>> The DNA code is not complex, Dipshit. Figure it out. 64
MG>> codons coding for 20 amino acids.
MB> ^^^^^^
MB> At first, I thought you said 64 CONDOMS, and I couldn't WAIt
MB> to read the rest of the sentence.
BLUSH? You?
MB> think they were getting a "good" reading (people only get one
MB> pint of blood from each donor, according to her), and they
MB> would be too weak to be a suspect in a murder case, anyway.
MB> Do you agree?
Absolutely. You completely change your complement of rbc's every six weeks
or so. Unless you get a bone marrow transplant, you have no way of changing
your blood cells.
The majority of the DNA, hwever, does not come from the red cells, but fromt
he white cells. These come also fromt he bone marrow through a complex
series of maturations. But your host DNA will never change. So if OJ had
a juge trnasplant right after he murdered his wife, they could repeat the
testing some weeks later and see that not only does it now match, but....er...welll...I
don't want to get on my soap box for this one.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:05:53
EID:1d54 2259a0a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dee0b1
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 32e9e585
MG>> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or
MG>> two ago. The people in the lab hadn't believed me. One
MG>> good thing about the guy...he's gawddamned consistant.
EM> And, pray tell, what would be the address of that choice site?
Forgot. Search for mosquito.net and look through their homepage section
and he's there.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:10:47
EID:8554 2259a140
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75deec19
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 15dbf1c8
SS> If I do a really, really good job of looking like a fool will
SS> some benevolent stranger send _me_ a pizza?
Post your address there and tell them you like anchovies.
Then expect to be enlisted in NAMBLA.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:12:44
EID:5e7d 2259a180
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75def117
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32deebf2
MG>> Bandwagon arguements do not wash. Loads of people believed
MG>> the Earth to be flat once. This did not make it so. Jst
MG>> because many are brainwashed, does not make your god real.
PD> Neither do counter arguments using bandwagons. Just because
PD> people thought the world was flat once does not mean doesn't
PD> exist.
Try to explain this. If you believes that the earth is flat, does that
make it flat?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:20:44
EID:01a9 225a9a80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75eba5b8
MG>> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your
MG>> stinking god punish homosexuality without punishing
MG>> homosexuals.
DR> Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
DR> Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
DR> they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
DR> worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
DR> Robertson.
I'm certain that Jelly will waffle onthis as well. He doesn't have an answer
that I will like.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:22:09
EID:18bf 225a9ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75eba9b7
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330e425e
KY> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God
KY> must be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you,
KY> the idea that God created us, is the most logical explanation we
KY> have.
I don't know if you believe that repeating it will make it true, but it
won't.
The above is not evidence. Take it from me. I make my living looking for
evidence.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Joe Martin
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:25:02
EID:3ee0 225a9b20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ebb1ef
REPLY: 1:134/67.333 51584342
JM> Laurie... are you _STILL_ trying to use this misquote?
JM> It's been debunked in DEBATE and EVOLUTION at least 4 or 5
JM> times... I guess since it doesn't work _there_ anymore you
JM> feel that you can use it here... Well...
Laurie is a stupid little fucker. He gets debunked witht he same taken
from context quotes in three or four echoes by a dozen people and he doesn't
have the brains to quit. If he would just tkae his fairy tales to a bunch
of believers so that no one would laugh at him it would make it easier on
all of us.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:26:53
EID:5814 225a9b40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ebc84a
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 330c8334
JM> I doubt one will, actually. I certainly wouldn't want to
JM> attempt to provide you with data because there isn't any I
JM> could give you. I consider deism to be just as much mental
JM> masturbation as any other religion... but masturbation can
JM> still be fun! B-})
I have no problem with desim as long as it's not masqueraded for something
that it is not. HOLYSMOKE to me is not about debunking deism, because you
can't really do that. It is more fun to debunk fanatics of all stripes.
What witht he religious wackos we get, we get the conspiracy freaks and
even some UFO nuts. As they say, you can't buy this kind of entertainment.
JM> There is a very interesting tome by Gustav Jahoda called "The
JM> Psychology of Superstition" that I would recommend to everyone
JM> interested in the subject (which I assume is everyone here). No
JM> discussion of "gods" can be complete without bringing some
JM> psychology into the pot.
JM> As Jahoda notes, superstitions involving ritual, which by
JM> extension includes all "religions" IMO, have "a common root in
JM> behaviour mechanism whose species-preserving function is
JM> obvious: for a living being lacking insight into the relation
JM> between causes and effects it must be extremely useful to cling
JM> exactitude. The principle 'You never know what might happen if
JM> you don't' is fully expressed in such superstitions." (The
JM> Psychology of Superstition - Gustav Jahoda. Penguin edition
JM> page 145)
So he says that a large dose of ignorance and a large bet placed on Pascal's
Wager will do the trick for them? I agree.
JM> The important part of the above quote is "...a living being
JM> lacking insight into the relation between causes and
JM> effects..." It is my contention, and that of others, that those
JM> afflicted with "religion" are suffering from that lack of
JM> insight into causes and effects and depend on their religion
JM> (or their priests) to provide it for them.
It's a wonder they can tie their own shoes.
But not so much a wonder that you hear tales of christians abusing their
kids. Wht else can you learn from them? The answer is obvious. They shoudlbe
teaching much of the stuff that is in the bible, the things that are decent
and that religion should be based on, instead of hatred for gays and etc.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:12:08
EID:0a32 22596180
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 331355a8
-=> Quoting David Rice to Ken Young <=-
KY> The Bosnia situation could be debated, as far as who
KY> really is causing the violent actions.
DR> One of which is Christian, you ninny. Both sides murder
DR> the other side; both sides rape young women from the
DR> other side and enslave them to prostitution.
Actually, the conflict in Bosnia has 3 sides to it. 2 of which
are Christian - the predominantly Orthodox Serbians and the
predominantly Catholic Croatians.
All 3 sides have engaged in murder, rape and various other
sundry activities associated with modern civil wars.
... Cheap modems work just fi.... ~&#$@{ NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: All
|Sub: You won't believe this q
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:21:10
EID:04b6 225962a0
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 331357c6
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
FR> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
FR> loved. - Ken Young
FR> To all you Christians: He's one of yours.
KY> Thank you for repeating my words of wisdom.. Just one tiny
KY> bit of my brilliance that everyone should realize.
KY> Just because someone will have an unfortunate eternity,
KY> does not mean you love them any less.
To para-phrase Otto from A Fish Called Wanda:
"Oh no, it's K-K-K-Ken, c-c-c-coming to c-c-c-convert us!"
... "I think that I'm dizzy, and I rather like it." - Pinky
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: Kosher and Gentiles
|Date: 26 Feb 97 21:08:27
EID:fcf6 225aa900
Whilst masticating on , Bryson Hughes (1:116/17)
wrote to all:
BH> This is why I declare the validity of the expression of Messianic Judaism
BH> for Jewish people, as well as the validity of Gentile faith in Messiah.
Declare what you wish; however, actual Jews do not and will not consider
your version of Christianity to be Judaism, no matter what you call it.
--- Msged/2 4.10
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 05:12:27
EID:3d92 22582980
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311779b
REPLY: 1:3652/1 3307964B
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Jason Harmon said this about Exemplifying
examples
G'day Jason,
[Hell]
KY>> And of course, God has never put anyone there.. People do it to
KY>> themselves..
JH> Riiiight. I refuse to go to hell. So, where do I go when I die?
JH> If I have a choice, I'll drop by heaven to torment you and your
JH> brethren.
I don't think you'll have to mate. If all the xtian faiths end up in
heaven I'd say they'd be busy thumping each other around the head with
bibles.
/\\ark...
... "Place it on its side and it's the symbol meaning... Infinity!
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 24 Feb 97 06:13:04
EID:4fa2 225831a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331185d0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d3fa4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about READING INCOMPREHENSI
DH>> See, now that's scarey. Do you own any guns?
DW>> He once used the alias "Patriot." What do you think?
KY> WHile I do have guns, not all "patriots" do. Some just aren't into
it.
KY> And actually I am not crazy about guns. Just see that they are
KY> necessary.
Now this is scary. A fundy who claims his god will protect him but has
possession of at least one firearm incase his god doesn't. Hear that
sound, Ken? That's the sound of the arse falling out of your faith.
/\\ark...
... I'd rather be riding a dragon.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Have enough already, dickbrain?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:45:39
EID:b5ae 225875a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311fdf3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e6603
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Dan Ceppa said this about Have enough already,
dickbrain?
G'day Dan,
[Abram Garcia]
MO>> Where are you, you cowardly little prick? You wanted the opportunity
DC> So far, it seems like your warm invitation to Abram has not
DC> been acknowledged or accepted by him.
So it seems mate. :-( I can't say I'm not dissapointed.
DC> Such a pity, as it sounds like he had talent.
He would have provided some entertainment at best. Still, we
should be thankful for Ken Young. I haven't laughed so much in years.
DC> Oh well, you can always visit the washed up has-been back
DC> in the minors.
Speaking of which, check out the message after this one to see what was
in
the local area today.
/\\ark...
... What you forget is that no one has a right to live. -- Ken Wiens
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:59:00
EID:d5c2 22587760
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311fe3d
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Ok all. Another bit of fun from the local area. Be sure to visit the
homepage at the bottom of the message and say hi.
* This message forwarded from area 'GEN_EZY' (GEN_EZY)
* Original message dated 23 Feb 97, at 15:57:50 from Jammer
On Fri 21-Feb-1997 2:45a, Homer Simpson wrote:
HS> so i would just like to give a small reply to each person that replyed
HS> to me.
Homer, give it a break. Look at it logically.
Christians Right | Athiests Right
-----------------------------------+----------------------
If you |
Believe You're set then! | You havn't lost anything.
in God |
-----------------------------------+----------------------
If You You're gunna roast | You're set, but that just means
Don't in hell | nothing happens after we're dead..
---------------------------------------------------------
If People can't figure that much out in their minds after a little
provocation, It's their own fault if They're not Christians and God really
does exist.
If People are SO sure that he doesn't and they're willing to take the chance
that he doesn't, that's their choice. If their right, they'll have alot
of
fun while they're still alive, living by their own rules, and if their
wrong, erp.
What's more, It says in the Bible(tm) that if you tell people once and they
argue, just leave. It *really* is not a good idea to post like that around
this forum, where the Majority are Athiests.
Anyway, by your colourful language, you sound like a JW, which means I
should be fighting you anyway. :-)
---
That's all. I'm posting this publicly in case anyone wants a discussion
(not
a total flamage like what happened to HS) about this... :-) One needs to
hone one's skills for aus.flame..... :-)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Uhr
jamz@verbal.apana.org.au
http://verbal.apana.org.au/~jamz/jamzhome.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:51:41
EID:9853 22587660
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311ff5d
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330e162e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Judith Bandsma said this about Blavatsky?
G'day Judith,
MO>> can't find a link to the HOLYSMOKE alignment page. Help?
JB> KatPurr's Window...http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/
JB> You should be able to find it there.
Thankyou. Have you received my alignment thingy as yet? If not I'll post
it here.
/\\ark...
... "Are you suggesting that coconuts are migratory?" - Monty Python
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:08:14
EID:57ac 22587900
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3312033e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e51da
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Dan Ceppa said this about most Xians only
"iffy"
G'day Dan,
SQ>> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ>> -some- charisma. :-/
MO>> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
DC> The Pope. And, I'm still upset that he is of Polish descent.
I've pondered that on occasion myself. Time to do a little research
methinks. I wonder if the vatican has a webpage? Probably something
rediculous like www.saviour.edu or www.con.com
/\\ark...
... A church that sets up a religious faith as more essential than purity,
than kindness, charity or goodness, is a dangerous institution. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Trivia
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:17:18
EID:d0a9 22587a20
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3312055e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Melanie and Mike's
The Logical World of Etymology
Updated on February 16, 1997.
Word and Word Origin of the Week
We must admit that this is one which we have just learned, but it is such
a good one we thought we just had to share it with you, our devoted
readers. The Christians of Renaissance France were perplexed: performing
a religious play would be an act of piety, but an actor imitating Jesus
or
Mary would be the sin of pride. What to do? What to do? Fortunately,
a
solution was found whereby they dramatised the Gospels without risking
eternal perdition -- they employed puppets. One of their favorite puppet
plays was that performed for the feast of the Assumption of Mary. The
crude puppets used in such plays therefore came to be known by the name
Marie, French for Mary, of course. Yes, bizarre as this sounds, this is
why a string puppet is called a marionette; it is a "little Mary".
The term entered English in about 1620, borrowed directly from French
marionette.(MC/MEL)
melanie@phoenix.net
/\\ark...
... and pulling back on the stick makes the cow smaller...
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: DIRECT DIALLING
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:48:11
EID:8524 22587e00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33120c9b
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Becke Boyer said this about DIRECT DIALLING
G'day Becke,
MO>> time (your time) would be best to find more than five people in
MO>> #holysmoke?
BB> Hmm...there's usually a shitload of people there between 9pm and 1am
You're right. About midday here.
BB> Standard Time. Not sure what country you're in, (I assume Australia),
Right again. And contrary to popular belief we don't "chuck another
shrimp on the barby".
BB>>> irc.another.net
MO>> I thought it was being moved from here?
BB> Not that I know of. You may be thinking of the move from undernet to
BB> anothernet.
That'd be it. Thanks.
/\\ark...
... Avoid doctors who do prostate exams with their hands on your shoulders.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:57:02
EID:1f34 225a4720
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33143fee
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330e6b4a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Cracker Barrel
Boycot
G'day Rod,
[Violent gays]
MO>> christians and gays to see which had the highest percentage of criminal
MO>> convictions recorded against it. Go on. Tell me it'd be the homosexuals.
RS> At this point, you will probably hear the scream of some "Dr
RS> Cameron" research -- something about the top-10 murderers in US
RS> history being predominantly gay.
Even if that _were_ true, a cross-section of both groups would
provide an interesting statistic IMNSHO. Having predominately gay people
in the top 10 of the criminal community still leaves a hell of alot
of untapped information.
RS> Maybe something about Jeffrey Dahmer? Of course, it will not
RS> *validate* any statement about gays being more violent.
I'd have to see evidence to this fact as well. Ol' Jelly does not instill
any confidence in me regarding his upbringing.
RS> I'm tempted to say that gay people tend to try and find a
RS> non-violent solution to a situation, but that does not mean I
I would agree, wholeheartedly. And I work with two, (another admission by
a workmate last week. (Not that I give a flying fuck)).
RS> I'd say lately that gay people have been taking self-defense
RS> courses, and learning to "bash back" to stop an attacker. Unlike
RS> the 70s and 80s, where gay bashings just "happened", gay people
RS> aren't willing to take it anymore. Unfortunately, that now means
RS> we're being gunned down instead of bashed. Of course, gays are
RS> now carrying guns :)
Scary fuckin' situation. Still, mix bad attitude, monomania, lack of
education, stupidity or an unwillingness to learn and you have a rather
volatile combination. Christians generally fit this catagory
unfortunately. :-(
RS> Next, the insecure hets will be grabbing TANKS with
RS> flame-throwers :) :)
Where do I get one?!?!
MO>> Have you ever considered that gay people may have a particular gene
MO>> hetrosexuals don't have that would control their sexuality?
RS> Perhaps, and more likely, a combination of genes that determine
RS> *all* sexual orientations along a spectrum from 100% straight to
RS> 100% gay.
Makes sense. Then again, I'm open to theory. Something a few of us in
here could learn from.
MO>> Perhaps something like an undersized (or enlarged), gland in the
brain?
RS> There is the claim of a smaller "nerve bundle" (I think) in the
RS> hypothalamus (I think), that Dean Hamer researched, however, it
RS> was not conclusive and certainly has not been verified.
Just a thought. (I ain't no fucking brain surgeon!) LOL!!
MO>> Mental instability?
RS> Has been ruled out.
An innocent example and one I already knew was incorrect. If Ken had
suggested it or had concurred, the matter of education would have been
simpler.
MO>> Too many cornflakes as a child?
RS> It's that riboflavin overload, yep, gotta be!
:) I'm a coco-pops man myself. ;)
MO>> Instead of using that fucking book of yours as a shield, how about
MO>> looking for answers in a methodical manner?
RS> Because it scares him, besides which, the bible clearly states....
But of course. I suggest he use it as an eight pointed suppository. It'll
certainly do more good.
MO>> Afterall, your "faith" would only be stronger for it but I fear
MO>> you'll refute anything logical as heresy and ignore it anyway.
RS> I've already provided him with literature to correct his errant
RS> viewpoint. He just stuck his fingers in his ears, and resolved
RS> to hold Jeeezus and his bible closer.
Idiots.
RS> The only solution for some Christians is to remove their
RS> "religious book" from their hand before rigor mortis sets in.
Or the example outlined above. ]->
KY>> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
KY>> loved.
MO>> You fucking beauty. "I love you, sinner, but yer gonna roast anyway!"
MO>> just get sillier by the week. Your god's going to piss himself laughing
MO>> when he sees you front up at the pearly gates. Idiot.
RS> As I said, get him before rigor mortis sets in.
I think he may have already passed through the gates of Purgatory. There's
no way back IMO.
/\\ark...
... "Grow some hair, Picard. Your brain must be getting cold." -- Q
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 26 Feb 97 07:56:49
EID:de88 225a3f00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144121
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330dc03e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Around the World
in 80 P
G'day Rod,
RS> Oh, well, what a bitch that will be. We will all get to heaven,
RS> and find there is no drinking water.
MO>> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub there.
MO>> ;-)
RS> Of course, and the philosophy of Hell(tm) is a much better idea
RS> anyway. Who'd want to be in Ned-Flanders-ville when you can be
RS> with all the fornicators, drunkards, idolaters, gays, and
RS> generally *excellent* non-Christians in Hell.
Definately my kinda place. A few beers. A quick bonk. Decent music. Heaps
of friends. Another beer. Two more bonks. Free cigarettes. Yep. That's for
me. ;^)
RS> Why, hell sounds like a delectable 24-hour-a-day, eternal party!
I'll save ya a seat. ]->
/\\ark...
... "If anyone ever sets fire to this city, it's going to be *me*."
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:02:23
EID:5253 225a4040
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314426f
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, DAVID RICE said this about CRACKER BARREL
BOYCOT
G'day DAVID,
KY>>> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
MO>> An interesting statistic would be a cross-section of
MO>> both christians and gays to see which had the highest
MO>> percentage of criminal convictions recorded against
DR> That's an interesting thought. Christianity taken as a
I think so too mate. Any clues where one might find such information?
Maybe a website somewhere?
DR> whole breeds violence; if holosexuals are less violence,
^^^^^^^^^^^
Homosexuals that appear when you look at them in the right light and
dissapear when you turn away? (I couldn't resist) ;-)
DR> whether by nature or nurture, what happens to Christians
DR> who are also homosexual? Does the Christianity-induced
DR> violence get canceled out?
Interesting concept. Hmm... Must be how Jelly can carry a firearm.
/\\ark...
... Only stupid fundies argue with taglines . . .
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:04:36
EID:38bd 225a4080
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331442f4
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1a87bf87
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Fredric Rice said this about Book Theft
G'day Fredric,
NS>> they will not let me > trying for years to get into that place myself
mon>> Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!! A christian with a sense of humour!
FR> That _was_ funny. Course it can be used to suggest that the people
in
FR> the racist church weren't "True Christians" -- like every other church.
Or to lull us into a false sense of kinship. I spotted it too. Still, I
haven't seen anything profoundly stupid being uttered as yet. Mind you,
I'm not expecting that trait to last. ;-/
/\\ark...
... "The chicken probably came before the egg because it is
hard to imagine God wanting to sit on an egg."
-Unknown
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:14:04
EID:d36f 225a41c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314452c
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f5148
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Steve Quarrella said this about most Xians
only "iffy"
G'day Steve,
KY>>>>> Of course, I have been told even by some Catholics, that they are
KY>>>>> not Christians.
SQ> wearing blue clothing." This statement goes up into the Top 50 stupid
SQ> things I've read in this echo. That's quite an accomplishment Ken has
SQ> pulled off there.
Agreed. I literally had fits of hysterics forcing me to walk outside for
a
while. After 10 years labouring in various factories I never thought I'd
see the height of human stupidity in a supposedly computer literate echo.
I still can't believe he said it. ;-)))
MON>> a young boy with a bag of lollies and his sense of loss when the bag
MON>> is empty, this is how I feel after I've read all of Jelly's posts.
A
SQ> Wish you had been here when some of the HOLYSMOKE Classic Posters were
SQ> here, like Ron Stringfellow, Charlie Ray, Phil Morrison, JBS, and
SQ> others. You can't pay for entertainment that good. :)
Mate, I've never seen anything like it. I truly hope he hangs around as
I
always enjoy a good laugh. ;)
MON>> Who knows? But we are dealing with irrational people with
MON>> irrational beliefs fighting ludicrously irrational "battles". I don't
SQ> I wish that they'd curb their god, and make certain he doesn't take
a
SQ> dump on my lawn or try to rub up and down on my leg. :-/
Tried a rolled-up newspaper?
SQ>>> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ>>> -some- charisma. :-/
MON>> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
SQ> I was talking about how preoccupied with Catholicism our evangalical
SQ> acquaintances seem to be. The Roman Catholic church is currently
SQ> headed up by a pole by the name of Karol Wojtyla. These days (well,
SQ> since September of 1978), he calls himself "John Paul II." :)
Ah. That's something I didn't know. I also didn't realise he'd been around
that long. (Fuck! Where does the time go?)
SQ> I had someone at work a year ago getting into my hair with her
SQ> Catholicism. I got rid of her by saying "I liked the first John Paul
SQ> better." :)
My knowledge of these things is pretty sparce but didn't he kick
off some centuries ago?
/\\ark...
... Jesus was very pleasant, and had a nice Harley-Davidson.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Virgin fundies!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:31:42
EID:4acd 225a43e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314485a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
G'day all. Well, something interesting has occured on my local BBS. The
owner of the BBS (A good friend of mine BTW), is allowing religious
discussion in the general message area. While this is good it leaves me
wondering why the two religious fuckwits on said BBS don't have the balls
to post HERE. Enter................me! ]-> If it's alright with the
general population of HOLYSMOKE I'd like to start forwarding these
messages into here where they can be replied to. As they aren't answering
mail in HOLYSMOKE I'll forward replies from here to the relevant area in
an attempt to get them to put their god where their mouths are, so to
speak. I think it would prove beneficial by either providing some more
victims err... christians or getting them to keep it in the correct
place; here or at church. The one thing that is not tolerated in the
general area is swearing. Feedback please.
*** Area: GEN_EZY Date: 25 Feb 97 20:10:32
*** From: Veg (292:363/821.0)
*** To : Homer Simpson
*** Subj: nu-bible.txt
On Tue 25-Feb-1997 0:06 , Homer Simpson wrote:
HS> sorry Veg
HS> send me private mail if you want to chat concerning the bible message.
No need to be sorry. I really think that if you don't want to take the
conversation to HOLYSMOKE (an echo dedicated to this sort of discussion),
then feel free to discuss it here. It is general chatter, as long as it's
not flaming :-)
This is designred to be a message based board, so the more public
discussions, the happier I feel.
Ciao for now,
Shaun.
.-----------------.-----------------------------.----------------------.
| Verbal Verbatim | IRC nick : Veg |"It's always the same,|
| Running on an | sgamble@verbal.apana.org.au |I'm running towards |
| Amiga 4000 | http://verbal.apana.org.au |nothing" -The Cure |
| with CNet 4.25 | telnet in as well | A Forest |
`-----------------^-----------------------------^----------------------'
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (292:363/821)
/\\ark...
... "Unleash the atheists! Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of reason!"
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 27 Feb 97 03:39:35
EID:16a5 225b1ce0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144ba3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330e2cc4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about A toast to dracula
RS>> try your salvation guilt trip on someone who has never been
RS>> touched by the scourge of Christian faith, weakling?
KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
You are weak. You *can't* survive without 'your god'. I am strong. I
*don't* need one. Since your admission that you carry a firearm you'll
never be able to convince me at least that your god is nothing but a
figment of your vivid imagination, an entity you need to thank for the
good things with an adversary you need to blame for the bad. What a
despicable person you are. So low, infact, you could probably hopscotch
under a scab. You spineless, miserable little pleb.
/\\ark...
... Find God? Why? Is he missing?
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Idiocy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:51:24
EID:c2e9 225a4660
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144dec
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331007ea
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Idiocy
JH>> If your going to keep quoting your bible like this, you're going
to
JH>> have to give us a reason to trust it. So, do you have any evidence
JH>> that this book of yours can be trusted?
KY> Well, has it ever lied to you before? :)
It certainly provides some comical reading material.
KY> Nothing that you would accept as evidence. Just that it is the word
of
KY> God, and anything God says is true.
Everything? Does this mean you drop your strides and hang a brown-eye
whenever someone you don't like passes you by? Exodus 33:23
/\\ark...
... You cannot stuff your minds with the lives of saints and grow good on
the stuffing. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 13 Feb 97 13:04:10
EID:1924 224d6880
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 3035c690
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33021cc9
Hello Don!
Don Martin wrote in a message to Jan deBoer:
Jd> Jan deBoer Oshawa, Ont. Defrocked Agnostic 3 years
Jd> Canada Intermittent
Jd> at whim of
Jd> Xtian Sysops
DM> What _I_ want to know, is who is _frocking_ agnostics
DM> these days? Or is this just a Canadian thing?
Could be :-) But I think it is a one of those old-fashion-isms
still used in the former Colonial world. "Frock" is still very
much part of the South African vocabulary to describe high class
dresses for the ladies.
Thus, when I am wearing my best threads I guess I could be
called "a frocked agnostic".
The person paying for those frocks must therefore qualify as
"a frocker". Depending on the circumstances of the "frockee"
it may it may be herself, the spouse, a lover, a parent etc.
I will not even attempt speculating if Jan went back into the
closet (d&r).
... Greetings from Mimi :-)
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: All
|Sub: The messianic legacy
|Date: 18 Feb 97 06:42:59
EID:b03f 22523540
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 33094f53
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
BOOK REVIEW OF "THE MESSIANIC LEGACY"
Baigent, M., Leigh, R. & Lincoln, M. 1987. _The messianic legacy_. New York:
Henry Holt.
The main theme of this book appears to be the way in which a small semi-secret
society, the Prieure de Sion is seeking to achieve its objective of restoring
a Merovingian monarch to the throne of France. The Merovingians apparently
claimed descent from the Old Testament House of David, and in an earlier
work, _The holy blood and the holy grail_, the authors put forward the hypothesis
that this decent was through Jesus or his immediate family.
The Merovingians (descendants of Merovech) were kings in what is now France
from the 5th to the 8th century, and they conquered the Visigoths who had
sacked Rome in AD 410, bringing away treasure reputed to include the treasures
of the temple at Jerusalem, which had itself been sacked by the Romans in
AD 70.
Baigent et al. have written the book in three parts. The first, "The Messiah"
deals with the idea of the Messiah in Judaism and early Christianity. The
second, "The quest for meaning", deals with faith and symbolism in modern
Western society. The third is a bewilderingly detailed account of contacts
and connections between the Prieure de Sion and various national and international
figures and organisations in the twentieth century.
The connections between the three parts of the books are not at all clear,
and nor it is clear how material in the first two parts contributes to the
hypothesis. The authors have included a lot of material without bothering
to make it clear why they have included it.
The first part, on the idea of the Messiah, seems to be intended to show
that a descendant of the Jewish royal line could have gone to the Celtic
area, on the Western seaboard of Europe. The authors throw in facts, fallacies,
speculations and conjectures, most of which seem irrelevant to whatever
point it is they are trying to make. Their knowledge of history seems shaky
at several points, and they don't even attempt to paper over the cracks.
Briefly, their thesis seems to be that Jesus went to Jerusalem intending
to become king of the Jews. The attempt was foiled by his arrest and execution
at the hands of the Romans and Jewish collaborators. The succession passed
to his brother James, and then this Jewish royalist/nationalist movement
split, with the larger part, led by Paul, severing connections with Jewish
nationalism. The nationalist section continued, however, as the Ebionites,
who later made an alliance with the Nestorians, who provided a kind of theological
halfway house. The Nestorians were influential in Egypt, and from there
spread to Ireland, where in some unspecified fashion they were linked to
the Prieure de Sion. There are too many gaps, and much of it is based on
false assumptions. It simply does not make sense.
Quite a large proportion of the illustrations make the point of similarities
between Egyptian and Irish Christianity. The authors say that Nestorius
was exiled to Egypt, and when Nestorius was condemned as a heretic in 451
the Egyptian Church refused to accept the ruling it split with "Roman Orthodoxy"
and formed the Coptic Church. This is simply a gross distortion of history,
and shows that the authors did not do their homework. The majority of Egyptian
Christians did not accept the decisions of the Council of Chalcedon in 451,
but for precisely the opposite reason that the author hints at. They thought
the Council was too Nestorian, and preferred the teaching of their own former
bishop Cyril, who was utterly opposed to Nestorius. So whatever was exported
from Egypt to Ireland or anywhere else, it was not Nestorian/Ebionite teaching,
but the exact opposite.
Egyptian missionaries did go to France, and Christian monasticism was first
developed in Egypt. It was exported to most other parts of the Christian
world, and thus provided the chief instrument for the evangelisation of
Europe and part of Asia. Between 500 and 1500 most Christian missionaries
were monks. Baigent et al., however, make some astoundingly naive statements
- for example that the monastic movement in Egypt "represented a form of
opposition to the rigidly hierarchical structures of Rome", and that the
monks were "tolerant" as opposed to the "intolerant" urban church. In fact
the reverse was true. The Egyptian monks regarded the urban church as lax
and effete, and they kept out of the cities for that reason.
The second part of the book deals with faith and symbols in Western European
society. In some ways it is the best part. The authors are for the most
part giving their own opinions, and are therefore not trying to base conclusions
on "facts" that (in the first part) often turn out to be conjecture or wrong
guesses. They look at the loss of faith in Western European society, and
the consequent search for substitute faiths, such as Communism and Nazism.
When they get on to some aspects of modern Christianity, they go off the
rails again. A notable example is their attempt to make the British Israel
theory a necessary part of fundamentalism, and even of South African apartheid.
Now while it is true that some British Israelites might be fundamentalists,
and that some supporters of apartheid were British Israelites, the British
Israel theory was certainly not a part of fundamentalism, nor was it necessarily
part of the thinking of those who formulated the apartheid policy. This
is a failure in logic as well as in facts.
How it fits in with the third part is not clear, unless it is intended to
show that monarchy is a powerful symbol that can be linked with faith. But
if that is the intention, it certainly does not succeed.
The third part is a very detailed account of meetings and connections of
various members of the Prieure de Sion and possible members with insurers,
spies, politicians and others. It seems to bear no relation to the other
two parts, and the point it is trying to make is obscure. The authors end
up by saying that they are sympathetic towards some of the objectives of
the Prieure de Sion, but sceptical or dubious about others. The trouble
is that they have not made it very clear what those aims are. They do seem
to think, however, that the Prieure de Sion might be capable of producing
a Messiah of the kind that the authors think Jesus actually was.
Well, who knows, we might some day see some descendant of the Merovingian
line riding to the EU headquarters in Brussels on a donkey. Watch the press
folks!
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety - The Kinks
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: All
|Sub: Religion and the internet
|Date: 22 Feb 97 14:51:51
EID:3d65 22567660
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 330f07f1
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
The following is a reply I wrote to a message on NUREL-L, the mailing
list for discussing new religious movements. Some people here may be
interested.
Steve Hayes is replying to smszilag@acs.ucalgary.ca, who wrote to steve
hayes
on 22 Feb 97 02:59:04:
> From: Sheila Marie Szilagyi
> Subject: Religion on the internet
> There are a few curious students inquiring about the relationship of
> the internet and religion. Is the international forum of the internet
> promoting an exchange of ideas between different faiths? Does this
> exchange promote a greater acceptance of various beliefs or does it
> foster misunderstanding and conflict? Digital technology displaces the
> scriptures from their physical medium and they are caught in an active
> medium subject to editing and interpretation. Scripture has
> historically been presented in a static textual form; will the
> translation of scripture into an electonic medium be detremental to the
> maintainance of religions in their true form?
It fosters both greater acceptance, and greater misunderstanding and conflict.
I suggest that you ask your students to do a research project. Let them
read
messages for two weeks in the INTERFAITH and HOLYSMOKE forums on Fidonet,
and
then analyse these messages to see what they reveal.
Both these forums are for discussions of religion, and members of any and
all
religions may participate. But there is a strong contrast in their styles.
The
INTERFAITH conference promotes greater understanding and tolerance of different
religious beliefs, though it tends to be intolerant of those whom its
moderators (sometimes unfairly) perceive as intolerant. The HOLYSMOKE
conference actively promotes misunderstanding, misrepresentation and
intolerance, and many of the messages consist of vulgar personal abuse.
It would be very interesting for your students to participate for a couple
of
weeks, collect a representative selection of messages, and analyse the
different styles, the content of the messages, and the degree to which
they
promote tolerance or intolerance; understanding or misunderstanding.
These are just two forums out of many, and if others could be found it would
perhaps make a more interesting study, but these two do reflect sharply
differing approaches.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... Steve Hayes - Editorial Department, University of South Africa
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:21: