God Damned Fundies!
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 25 Feb 97 21:24:43
EID:fff3 2259ab00
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 134eacbf
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33105e83
On 23 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 21 Feb 97 06:55:24, John Brawley got back to David Worrell
JB> I was referring to Hector's response,
DW> Could it be that you *still* don't know who you're talking to? Oh,
DW> wait.. you knew all along, right?
JB> I caught the hint earlier, but ignored it. My assumption was always
DC> See, David, he knew it all along but ignored it!
"Earlier" was barely a week ago. Before that, I had no idea Mark Kimes
was "Hector Plasmic."
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Mysticism: Music by God; Lyrics by anonymous, for solo performance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 02:26:06
EID:32d2 225a1340
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33139f3e
-> On 23 Feb 97 11:02:06, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
-> On 21 Feb 97 05:12:42, Laurie Appleton got back to John Brawley
DC> JB>(*sigh*) "Do not go to the elves with questions, for they will say
DC> both JB>'no' and 'yes.'"
LA> Is 'elves' an alternative name for evolutionist then?
DC> There you go, John, you've collected your first groupie.
JB> yyAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!
JB> (Run away! Run away!)
As much as I do hate to repeat myself:
Think about it, John.
... If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lies...
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:43:24
EID:e722 225a8d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314763c
-> On 23 Feb 97 08:16:58, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> Perception? No. If God was such a truly unique, all-powerful,
RS> being of CLARITY, there'd be only one version of him --
JS> There is only one version: Jesus Christ.
Throwing away his Big Daddy and the Holy Spook idea, I see.
... Jim's IQ test results came back negative.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:49:41
EID:db45 225a8e20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331477b5
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:23:54, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> grace I demonstrated in my statement. BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23
JS> NIV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
DC> Therefore, Jimbo, you cannot pray to your god. It's not allowed.
DC> After all, oh Brain Dead one, your bible says so.
JS> Evidence????
The evidence that you are brain dead is abundant. The evidence
that supports my statement is in the book you thump. It's
your book, you find. After all, it's patently clear that
you don't have a clue about the book you worship. It's high
time you actually read the bullshit that you have swallowed.
... Instead of being born again, why not just grow up?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:15:29
EID:6028 225ab1e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b601
-> On 21 Feb 97 07:58:18, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
DC> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG> Another high liver, I see.
DC> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG> It gets bladder and bladder...
DC> Just colon can we keep this shit up?
RS> Until we've rectum?
Darned nearly killed him, in fact. Thought all that would
be left was sausage casings.
... "Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." Yoda
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:17:06
EID:f90b 225ab220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b662
-> On 21 Feb 97 08:37:40, Martin Goldberg got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>>>> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
DC>>>> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG>>>> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC>>> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG>>> Another high liver, I see.
DC>> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG>> It gets bladder and bladder...
DC> Just colon can we keep this shit up?
MG> I'll let you know enemanute.
Just r-exlax and take your time.
... "You saw God?" "Er, yes...and she's black, sir."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:19:33
EID:1472 225ab260
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314b6f5
-> On 21 Feb 97 14:09:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
She could always bring home the pigs' feet instead.
... Bobbitt theme song: "Half the man I used to be."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:47:54
EID:1c3c 225ab5e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314bd9a
-> On 21 Feb 97 20:41:08, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> there are an infinite number of "smallest non-zero numbers"
DC> depending on how the number sets are defined.
RC> Brawley has a hard enough time figuring out how to deal with two
RC> answers ("no" in the general case, but "yes" in some specially
RC> Might as well flee to Mordor for mercy, compared to what he gets here.
Which is why you have been elevated to High Mathematician of
the Elvenkind, for sure. May you avoid the Balrog on this
incarnation, Glofindel.
... "Ignorance is free but it exacts an enormous price." Marty Leipzig
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:56:26
EID:1c4a 225ab700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314bf9a
-> On 18 Feb 97 10:23:00, Norman Solomon got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Impress us some more. Tell us you are Chris Green in disguise.
DC> That should surely "Wow!" us.
NS> Who on earth is "Chris Green"?
A fellow countryman of yours that you are probably better off
not knowing.
... The stronger the supernatural beliefs, the worse the inhumanity.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Frugel Gormet: Christian child rapist
|Date: 26 Feb 97 22:59:50
EID:173e 225ab760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c066
-> On 22 Feb 97 03:00:07, Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa
dc> I'd prefer if he pulled his own plug. I'm not in favor of
dc> capital punishment. However, there are times that I do
dc> see the need.
FR> Well, maybe we'll get O. J. to pull the plug. That'll at least be
FR> something. }:-}
I understand that you should be able to reach OJ at his Internet
address: ...com
BTW, I'm trying to get additional info on the Smith case, but
I'll have to research a pone number at work tomorrow.
... Every fundy flamed enlightens the world.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:04:23
EID:3fc2 225ab880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c177
-> On 21 Feb 97 19:16:06, ROBERT CURRY got back to KEN YOUNG
BB> And if he chooses not to go?
KY> Everyone that does not choose God, chooses to go to Hell.
RC> Like everyone who does not choose Hitler, chooses the gas chamber.
You have been a source of not only great ripostes but great
taglines to go with them in this packet.
Thanks for adding to my FUNDY.TXT file.
... "Bother," said Pooh as he chanted the Black Mass.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:14:30
EID:197a 225ab9c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c3d6
-> On 21 Feb 97 20:41:07, ROBERT CURRY got back to FREDRIC RICE
FR> No please! Don't send me into the same class as Brawley!
FR> I'll promise to learn how to add, I swear!
RC> OK. What's one star plus three squares?
LOL! It's circle, of course!
RC> I've been teaching my goddaughter some abstract algebra and group
RC> theory; she likes almost any of these math games.
I think I remember doing the same or something similar to that
way back when. And, yes, it's fun to get the kids interested
in things like that, especially when you see the light-bulbs
click on.
RC> + | triangle square circle star
RC> ----------+-------------------------------------------
RC> triangle | triangle square circle star
Is there a direct multiplication table that fits the model?
... "God doesn't exist, and Mary is his mother." --James Joyce
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:20:03
EID:32d2 225aba80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c523
-> On 22 Feb 97 03:56:23, John Brawley got back to Laurie Appleton
JB> Laurie, blow it out your lying,
JB> Bible-Fundie, Sophist-Creationistic ASS.
JB> You are a liar, a science-hating fact-distorter, and a partial
JB> abomination in the Sight of God.
Close, John. Laurie is a complete abomination to anyone
with the capacity to think. He counts on those that are
indoctrinated into his cult to support him.
... David Duke: Sheet for brains.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:29:01
EID:32d2 225abba0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c73d
-> On 22 Feb 97 04:18:50, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number," either?
JB> (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
JB> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
DC> You missed my response to Marilyn. It's actually in
I only added a minimum of 1 infinite direction. However,
with Curry's response, I expanded that to an infinite
number of smallest infinites.
JB> Freeman Dyson has a book: _Infinite_in_ALL_Directions_
JB> [emphasis mine --jb]. It's not much about math, tho'.
Not having read the book, I can't comment on what he wrote.
DC> suspect that there are an infinite number of "smallest
DC> non-zero numbers" depending on how the number sets are
DC> Think about it.
JB> I have, and still do. What it boils down to is the (scientifically)
JB> unresolved question, "is reality discrete, continuous, or some as-yet
JB> unrevealed combination of both?" (And its unspoken corollary, "will
JB> _science_ ever be able to tell which?")
Only the data will tell. However, the data of the infinitely
large and infinitely small depend on mathematics to formulate
a model to explain the reality of what is observed.
JB> (IOW, I'm uninterested in what "math" does with these ideas; I am only
JB> interested in what "reality" --"that which is"-- does with them.)
Unfortunately, you have no choice. You cannot encompass the
universe on a space voyage and see where you end up. Neither
can you hold a single atom, let alone a quark in your hand and
study it.
You can only go where you can describe with the mathematics
that you abhor.
... "Who cares? It's all relative anyway...." Einstein
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Christanic slavery
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:34:29
EID:15b5 225abc40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314c885
-> On 23 Feb 97 06:44:26, Steve Quarrella got back to Fredric Rice
SQ> Saturni dies February 22 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Darryl Gonzalez:
DG>> Slavery's over, man, get over it! In this country, as I said above,
it
SQ> I wonder if this guy knows who "Jim Crow," "Rosa Parks," and "Martin
I know know how to spell her name 'Rosa' not 'Ruth'.
Does that count?
... Of _course_ you can trust the government... just ask the Indians.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:41:30
EID:033f 225abd20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314ca2a
-> On 23 Feb 97 02:22:01, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
MB> My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
MB> post (presumably taunting all us nasty heathens) that we
MB> couldn't create even one atom. Then, only a couple of days
MB> later, he said that Man (that's ALL OF US, folks) created
MB> disease.
Do you have a copy of either on file? Preferably the former,
as I think I may have missed that. It'll add to my new
file, Jelly.cre!
MB> Now, just how can we create all those microorganisms without
MB> even creating one little itty-bitty atom? Quite a trick.
MB> That makes us even better than his gawd.
It's all in the slight of hand and making sure the man
behind the curtain isn't seen.
BTW, that reminded me as to how the priest used to come and
go from the back of the church to serve mass. I don't think
I've ever seen those curtains left open.
... It is difficult to prophesize, especially about the future.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Homosexual Christians
|Date: 26 Feb 97 23:46:17
EID:5b05 225abdc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314cb49
-> On 21 Feb 97 09:34:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>KY> Yep..[sic] Can a homosexual couple, naturally,
>KY> have a baby?
DR> How fuckingly bizarre. Ken defines "natural lifestyle" as
DR> one where reproduction takes place. That means I myself, a
It's necessary, per his book of lies. It's the one that
says, "Go forth and multiple." As it stands, they can't
even do basic math.
DR> I know a holosexual couple have had produced two children.
Was it done on the holo-deck? :)
I'll have to ask the two girls that I know if either/or or
both have ever had children.
... "Alex, we'll take Assimilated Races for $100." -Borg Jeopardy
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:32:08
EID:4fde 225b0400
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d608
-> On 19 Feb 97 09:49:36, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> For every scriptural verse, there is an equal and
DC> RS> opposite scriptural verse...
DC> If you haven't read it, get _The Mind of the Bible-Believer_
DC> by Edmund D. Cohen. It's not 2 verses that do it to them
DC> but a triad of them that all together in which the third
RS> Thank ye for this reference :) :)
Don't thank me yet. It's a pretty tough read. It helps
if you have had at least a course or two in psychology.
Even then, it's still not easy.
I "earned" my copy by making Marilyn's copy to damned
dog-eared to return. (At least now I can mark it up
to my heart's content!)
... +Origin: STHUPPING NETWORK: Bendin' 'em over, grabbin' ankles for Hayz
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:37:07
EID:a3bf 225b04a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d733
-> On 19 Feb 97 10:26:14, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
DC> Absolutely.
DC> Try me and show I'm wrong. You will lose, pink boy.
RS> Something about a gay couple, one male and one female :) :)
And a partner of either that plays around "experimenting"
on the non-gay side!
... Religion cannot sink lower than when it is raised to a state religion.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: God Dan
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 00:42:12
EID:db7f 225b0540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314d864
-> On 24 Feb 97 02:23:00, DAVID RICE got back to GOD DAN
-=> Quoting God Dan to Ken Young <=-
DR> Hi God! Wow. I'm awed.
As you should be! LOL!
>>DR> Ever hear of Bosnia? Ireland? Jonestown? Waco?
>KY> The Bosnia situation
>KY> WIth Jonestown,
>KY> And with Waco,
GD> I noticed that you conveniently skipped over the
GD> "minor" problem in Ireland, pink boy.
DR> Gee, God, you're right---- I didn't notice he failed to
DR> waffle on that one as well.
He tries his best. However, to many people keep archives.
Technology is the bane of fundys. He's not even close
to being an exception.
DR> However, I =DID= notice that in each case he used the "Not
DR> Real True Christian" lie to hand-wave the problems away.
After all, there is only "One True Xian". That's the one
of the multitude that claim they are that "one" and all the
other xians aren't.
... "I, God Dan, don't require you to send money to me for your souls."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:00:48
EID:582d 225b0800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314dcc0
-> On 21 Feb 97 14:51:50, Ken Young got back to Rod Swift
RS> Skin colour can be a choice too, dear boy.
KY> There is something to be said for sticking with what you naturally
KY> have. Many people are black, that is how it was meant to be, and we
KY> are not change that.
Your bigotry is shining through your sugar coating, pink boy.
It's far brighter than the "son of god" you follow.
KY> I would say that you should be what you were made to be. If you were
Made to be what, bigot?
KY> created white, stay that way. If you were made male, stay that way.
KY> And if you were made heterosexual, as we all were, stay that way.
All that's left of you is the cross that you willingly stuck
up your ass. Your true putrid beliefs are exposed by your
very own statements.
... Physical abusive misogynistic sexually frustrated bigoted asshole.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Rat finds Food at End of Maze
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:08:11
EID:febd 225b0900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314de7b
-> On 23 Feb 97 19:17:16, Dave Hamilton got back to Richard Smith
DH> A 59-year-old Catholic Priest has been charged with Child
DH> Molestation over incidents occurring between 1991 and 1993.
DH> The parents originally reported the item to officials in
DH> the Church, where they were assured that the issue would
Unfortunately, that was a mistake on their part. The parents
expected justice and got as religious answer.
DH> the pastor still has his position. He has NOW been charged
DH> by police.
Now, to keep the bastard there and make him stand trial
for his crimes.
... Question authority before they question YOU!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Websites Etc.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 01:22:51
EID:1ec3 225b0ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314e1eb
-> On 20 Feb 97 16:11:44, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> ROFL! :) Have you reconsidered the perspective of being a god,
DC> RS> God Dan?
DC> Not in the least.
RS> It's just with all that deity sex being gay, we thought you might want
RS> to reconsider being a deity, just for a bit :)
I'm the God of a Different Color!
DC> And, in my case, I've got a few goddesses in mind for a different
DC> scenario!
RS> Oh, that's ok then :)
Thank you for your approval. Not that I needed it, but it
gave me a laugh! Then again, at least one of those Godessses
is there when I need to talk, dance, or shoot darts.
RS> Rod "... just scratch my whole line of questioning then" Swift :)
Never, ever!!! stop questioning. To do so means one of two things:
1: You died.
2: You became fundy and should have died.
To me, the first is infinteley (Brawley) far more preferable.
... The day I stopped learning is the day I died....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Bernie
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:16:49
EID:1366 225b1200
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314ee91
-> On 25 Feb 97 08:53:37, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa
JB>> or would you rather play silly games with this as well?
DC> What the hell. Let's play John's game and be silly!
DW> Sounds like fun to me. :)
As my friend would say:
Mus'n't get sthilllly!
(more after Monday night darts and I tell her what I
told you for her and she slaps me upside the head!)
... Burn In Hell brand Fundy Chips - From Waco, TX
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:21:47
EID:32d2 225b12a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314efbb
-> On 23 Feb 97 11:03:17, John Brawley got back to Richard Smith
RS> JB> 6 - 8 = -2
JB> [-3][-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
JB> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
RS> DC> Try using your 'logic' with 6 - 6, John. The answer,
RS> DC> according to what you typed above, is [+1]
JB> (*) Dan's got me so far, on this one, even though with marbles, his
I didn't "get" you. John. I showed you were you went
seriously wrong.
JB> method won't work. First time he's partly succeeded. But I'm still
Partialy? Like in "Quantum Gods can't do that"?
JB> looking for a way around it that doesn't float the definitions all the
JB> way outta the room. Stay tuned!
Try tuning in the next time. Your band has been fading in
and out and you are missing the needed feed.
... 7.194436287473 : the inverse cosh of the Beast
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:25:39
EID:4815 225b1320
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314f0a3
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:22:25, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> RS> In the fact it is perjorative.
JS> Perjorative is a noun.
RS> You so sure, Mr Erudite?
JS> Yes.
JS> In the first place, I didn't spell it that way. Mr. Swift did. And in
Look above, Dipshit One. You did.
DC> You just lost your buck private membership "English Major".
JS> And you lost your soul.
Oh, fucking wow, that hurts.
Good thing I'm a God and your god is a piece of shit that
doens't matter.
... Pray for Jim Staal (see Psalm 137:9)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Secure digital conferencing and private mailing list for jus
|Date: 26 Feb 97 13:50:03
EID:c089 225a6e40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33143fa6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 e82bc060
PID: GED3 2.5
24 Feb 97 13:17, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Brawley's the loaded one here... ask him for the money.
JB> Where'd you get that idea? I ain't "loaded"; I'm just barely able to
JB> avoid working, is all.
Ah... another welfare recipient. I figured as much.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:08:09
EID:0bed 225a7100
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331443ea
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3136be1b
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 17:06, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP> Don't play God with human cloning,
It's much more fun to play Patton with TANKS.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:12:19
EID:9a85 225a7180
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331444e6
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89691708
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Feb 97 08:46, Laurie Appleton wrote to David Worrell:
LA>> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
LA>> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
LA>> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
LA>> intelligent Designer."
LA>> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
DW>> What part of the word "superficially" are you having
DW>> trouble with?
LA> None what ever.
THen you're even more stupid than I originally gave you credit for.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:15:29
EID:6695 225a71e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331445c3
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33135f37
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 21:52, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
KY>>> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have
KY>>> also been involved in other things I am strongly against, such
KY>>> as NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
DW>> I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato plant
DW>> before. Or any "wild" vegetable, for that matter.
SQ> We MIGHT have a Corn Flakes King on our hands...
I do hope so.
SQ> I can't believe that this Procter and Gamble thing is STILL going on.
SQ> Maybe this guy still believes that the sun revolves around the Earth,
SQ> too.
Once allegations of a satanic conspiracy get out, the fundies refuse to
let go of them. P&G will probably *always* be plagued by this shit.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:16:34
EID:6e08 225a7200
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33144613
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33135fca
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Feb 97 21:53, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
KY>>> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the
KY>>> most superior beings out there.
SQ> Who is making the assumption? You, or him?
Who do you think? :)
DW>> Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we
DW>> (humanity) are the "most superior beings out there."
SQ> Well, shit, dj vu. I wonder if Ken here has ever wrestled with a
SQ> polar bear.
I get the feeling that an anorexic rat terrier would give Ken a run for
his money. I doubt a polar bear would even notice him. :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:21:32
EID:1530 225b82a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b4d1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331445c3
PID: GEDW32 2.51.a1026 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> We MIGHT have a Corn Flakes King on our hands...
DW> I do hope so.
"Science is evil! I want it stopped!"
SQ>> I can't believe that this Procter and Gamble thing is STILL going on.
DW> Once allegations of a satanic conspiracy get out, the fundies refuse
to
DW> let go of them. P&G will probably *always* be plagued by this shit.
Didn't they sue someone last year over this shit?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: RIC CARTER
|Sub: Shroud of Turin
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:29:14
EID:b649 225b83a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b682
REPLY: 1:2002/2002 7ccecf06
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, RIC!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit RIC CARTER ad JAN DEBOER:
RC> Isn't that, *Turin* Guide ?? #8-)
I STILL think I'm going to go to Rome in 2000 to see this thing when the
Vatican puts it on display. Ought to be worth the money just to watch some
of the people going batshit over it. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:42:12
EID:82ca 225b8540
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b99e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0425da83
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marilyn!
Jovis dies February 27 1997, Dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
MB> He said that the thing about P&G being satanist was probably a
MB> fable, but that he doesn't like some of their policies (of course,
MB> he never stated what policies he dislikes, or why).
Enquiring minds want to know...
MB> ... That's the problem with the gene pool...No lifeguards
Shit, no -chlorine!-
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christanic slavery
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:43:36
EID:03b3 225b8560
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315b9d9
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3314c885
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
DG>>> Slavery's over, man, get over it! In this country, as I said above,
SQ>> I wonder if this guy knows who "Jim Crow," "Rosa Parks," and "Martin
DC> I know know how to spell her name 'Rosa' not 'Ruth'.
DC> Does that count?
Yeeeee...no.
DC> ... Of _course_ you can trust the government... just ask the Indians.
Yeah, white eyes! Get a move-on!
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella de Vil
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:44:20
EID:78da 225b8580
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315ba0c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3314ca2a
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Marilyn Burge:
MB>> My favorite KY Jelly contradition is where he said in one
I was wondering why folks were calling him "Jelly." :)
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:45:18
EID:56d6 225b85a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315ba74
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33144613
PID: GEDW32 3.0.a1221 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
KY>>>> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the
KY>>>> most superior beings out there.
SQ>> Who is making the assumption? You, or him?
DW> Who do you think? :)
Sorry, I was playing Hamlet and speaking rhetorically.
DW>>> Anyway, I doubt you'll find many atheists that "assume" that we
DW>>> (humanity) are the "most superior beings out there."
You've got to wonder whether all the animals laugh at us at the Noah's Ark
reunions. "People are so stupid...they create tools with which to destroy
themselves." :-/
Jelly...
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2 - Spank Our Wombats! UNREG
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:30:00
EID:4697 225a8bc0
David and Lynda were killing time yakking about ...:
Damned software (ok, it was me, but...)
This was supposed to go to you:
LB> Richard and David were killing time yakking about ...:
RS> Dav? She was inviting your next assinine claim. Go ahead,
RS> just open your mouth. I'm sure one will float out.
DR> You're sure? Like real sure? Then go sit in the corner and talk
DR> with the rest of the zerotheistfundies. Leave me alone as I am a waste
DR> of your time.
LB> Hehe...a new tagline for your file...
LB> On a totally unrelated subject, could you netmail me from your
LB> archives the exchange between Al and me on the Dark Ages? I know you
LB> said you had my commentary, if you have HIS assertions which sparked
LB> it, I'd like those as well. There was an online friend who does not
LB> participate here in Holysmoke who helped point me to some resources
on
LB> the subject that is requesting to see the outcome. :) Thanks.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
TLX v4.10 ABORT,RETRY, GET THE SHOTGUN AND SHOOT THE DAMNED THING
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Hermaphrodititry
|Date: 26 Feb 97 12:54:27
EID:ffbe 225a66c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33148d5c
Jan deBoer said "Freedom of choice" to Ken Young,
adding:
Jd> And what advice do you have for those who find themselves fully
Jd> outfitted with a penis, testicles, a vagina, and a set of breasts?
Jd> Can you say hermaphrodite? Your all-knowing god seems to have
Jd> overlooked those individuals - no mention of them in your bible, eh
Jd> Ken? Was the topic a little too complex for god?
Jd> Tell us, oh wise imbecile, at what point in utero do the
Jd> hermaphrodites make the conscious decision to have it both ways?
Jd> Oh, and Ken - marriage - which sex should a hermaphrodite marry?
Why another hermaphrodite, of course:
One lusty hermaphrodite, Bloom,
Found another one up in his room,
They argued all night
As to who had the right
To do what, with which, and to whom.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: Apologies to regulars
|Date: 26 Feb 97 12:55:15
EID:1469 225a66e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33148d5d
Bryson Hughes said "asaity" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
MG> But you forgot that before god could tell him anything,
MG> the god had to exist.
BH> Ok we can talk about the existance of God if you like.
MG> Do you have any evidence that a god exists? Any at all?
BH> However, in a case of the honest skeptic, I doubt that
BH> I could produce the evidence of what I know. There
BH> would be a couple of reasons. One would be my own
BH> limited ability to convey abstract ideas in a
BH> compressed space of time; the other due to the
BH> uninitiated or unprepared state that my skeptic friend
BH> would be in, to absorb the full impact of what I show
BH> to him.
Ah, the old "my transmitter is _fine_, but your receiver
is not up to the job" ploy. You go on to offer stuff like
prophecy tracking, that you apparently find substantive, as
possible evidence. For those of us who regard such things as
a literary exercise at best, here is one opportunity for
direct evidence of your pet deity that seems to be largely
ignored by theists:
Personally, I have said many times that I would welcome ANY
evidence of the existence of any god, and I have even specified
indirect evidence that would be quite convincing, not only to
me, but (I suspect) to all the wicked atheists here: the residue
of the Noachan Flood. It avoids the problem of "how can there be
physical evidence for a spiritual being?" by focussing on one
instance in which that spiritual being supposedly interacted
physically with the physical world in a way that would have
produced distinctive physical consequences. While we have seen
fundies claim that their god is so deceitful as to cover his
tracks, I, for one, would presume that such a dishonest being is
unworthy of being taken seriously, much less of worship.
I do not concern myself here with the issue of the needed
two additional hydrospheres of water and its drainage out of
earth's gravity well, nor with the necessary consequences
resulting therefrom by operation of the laws of physics: the
atmospheric pressure resulting from a "vapor canopy" that would
prevent the existence of life as we know it, the heat release
from the condensation of that much water that would be
sufficient to melt lead anywhere in the atmosphere, etc. are
very serious impediments to the veracity of the story, but most,
if not all, fundies lack sufficient knowledge of physics to be
able to follow the reasoning. It only confuses them, leading
them to drag out yet another version of the Deceitful God, who,
they claim, sets the laws of physics aside his wonders to
perform. Instead, I simply take the Genesis account at its face
value, looking at the effects that much water falling at that
rate would inescapably have upon the face of the earth.
We have an account of a global flood directly produced by
Yahweh in the Bible. Given the fact that we have information,
presumably from a source inspired by omniscience, of the extent
of the flood ("over the highest mountains," or roughly 30,000
feet above present sea level) and of the time of the rain (40
days and 40 nights = 40 24-hour days = 960 hours), it is easy to
calculate the rate of the rainfall: 30,000/960 = 31.25 feet of
water fell per hour. That is little better than six inches of
rainfall per minute.
I would think that "gullywasher" fails to do this rate
justice, inasmuch as that term is applied to rainfalls of one or
two inches per hour. Suffice it to say that this rain would wash
away pretty much any particles smaller than Volkswagens and
deposit all of this in a single stratum covering the low-lying
areas world-wide.
We know from geology that floods leave evidence in direct
proportion to their size (this stratum would, for instance, be
far thicker than any other ever created and would cover all the
area on earth with its thickness varying in inverse proportion
to altitude), and we further know from the mechanics of
disposition of suspended solids in fluids the type and extent of
the stratum that would be laid down by a global flood. Those
larger particles would lie at the bottom of the stratum, with
progressively smaller bits covering them. In addition to that,
the contents of that stratum, the remains of ALL creatures
mingled together under optimal conditions for fossilization
(heavy sedimentation at great depths, with the finest materials
thickly sealing the top) are known: in short, a universal unique
event would produce a universal unique outcome--a stratum like
no other in the geologic column.
Such a stratum would furnish perfectly good indirect
evidence for the existence of this Yahweh person, just as
tracings on a photographic plate tell us of subatomic particles
or the behavior of objects in space tells us of the existence of
enormous gravitational forces only explicable by the presence of
a black hole.
So show us this stratum. That would be evidence.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: 10 foot high and rising!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:41:54
EID:5f47 225a7520
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a830
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a753d
David Ragland said "10 foot high and rising!" to Becke Boyer,
adding:
BB>asked, "So where did the water go?" ;)
DR> Where does the water from _any_ flood go? If the polar ice caps
DR> were melted, would that not lead to a global deluge?
It would lead to an increase in sea level of about 300
feet: bad news for Baltimore and Manhattan, but lacking some
five miles in depth needed for covering the "highest
mountains of the world".
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:53:58
EID:4807 225a7ea0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a831
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a751c
David Ragland said "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
DC>You sure are, Fuck.
DR> Forget to take your tranquilizers? Are you suffering with
DR> Tourette's Syndrome perhaps?
[patronizing excretia deletia]
Not at all. It is just that your prose, your pose, and
your (for want of a better term) thinking processes are
strongly reminiscent of a former echo participant who called
himself, among other things, Captain Fuck.
Later, you say to Richard Smith:
RS> IF Einstein ever said such a thing, he was being bamboozled.
DR> Well that wraps it! Now you are calling an intellectual giant a
DR> dummy.
Since when does the state of "being bamboozled" =
"stupid"? You apparently suppose that it does, yet great
intelligence is no guarantee that one will not be deceived.
Yuri Geller bamboozled a whole lot of very bright scientists
before being shot down by magician James Randi (an expert in
bamboozling, if you will). Does that make all those
scientists stupid? No, it simply means that they did not
deal very well with being lied to.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Cross Posting???
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:08:55
EID:d2ae 225a8100
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3314a832
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 33137f24
-=> Quoting Norman Solomon to All <=-
NS> I would like some advice please.
NS> I have discovered that I can post things I read in here to other
NS> {Fido} echo's. Is this OK?
Cross post (and dress) to your heart's content. When
your nice-eared countrymen take up their scythes and
pitchforks in response to the language and ideas common
here, it will be to your house that they come.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:53:55
EID:7aaf 22599ea0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dec4fa
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33102d27
MG>> Did anybody ever ask him what bible verses were instructing
MG>> him to hate the catholic church?
SQ> Doesn't he have those on his web page?
I didn't read the whdo thing. I didn't have the time. Suffice it to say
that there is enough there that the most stalwart christian will believes
that he's a wacko.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Call Jim NOW!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:55:07
EID:25ab 22599ee0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dec70c
DR> A few years ago a Fundamentalist Muslim said "Anyone who
DR> changes water into wine is an infidel." Jesus is now
DR> stewing in Hell forever and ever without end. Golly.
It matters not what's in the news,
only in the god you choose.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:57:02
EID:acbf 22599f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75decbac
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 8fdda192
NS> discussion of God is desirable, but if it is possible. I
NS> contend that it is possible as to whether this is desirable
NS> is quite another matter.
NS> What is your view?
My view is that without evidence that a god exists, all discussion is moot.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:58:00
EID:6ca6 22599f40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75decf43
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aab90
RS> Thank you for this affirmation, Martin. Ken is arguing a premise
RS> that "there is only one 'right' sexual orientation" and the
RS> conclusion "it's his".
RS> The premise is wrong, and hence the conclusion is also wrong.
Homosexuality, while not normal (since it is not the sexual preference of
most) is natural. Therefore, anyone that hates for homosexual preference
is
1. Not a christian
2. A moron
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Double Standard Ken!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:59:22
EID:a2b9 22599f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ded393
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330c49c6
RS> Yes. I was there when it all happened. I wonder what will
RS> happen to next year's funding application and grant?
I hope that the faculty at the med school will tell the county commissioners
what to do. Our kid came home with a bit from school that they were going
to teach some stuff on AIDS and so forth. The jiest is that they will teach
abstance AND the right way to apply a condom. We don't live in Dallas,
and it seems to me that the Dallas schools could take a lesson fromt his.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:01:23
EID:bcdb 2259a020
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dedd33
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 864b3ce0
MG>> The DNA code is not complex, Dipshit. Figure it out. 64
MG>> codons coding for 20 amino acids.
MB> ^^^^^^
MB> At first, I thought you said 64 CONDOMS, and I couldn't WAIt
MB> to read the rest of the sentence.
BLUSH? You?
MB> think they were getting a "good" reading (people only get one
MB> pint of blood from each donor, according to her), and they
MB> would be too weak to be a suspect in a murder case, anyway.
MB> Do you agree?
Absolutely. You completely change your complement of rbc's every six weeks
or so. Unless you get a bone marrow transplant, you have no way of changing
your blood cells.
The majority of the DNA, hwever, does not come from the red cells, but fromt
he white cells. These come also fromt he bone marrow through a complex
series of maturations. But your host DNA will never change. So if OJ had
a juge trnasplant right after he murdered his wife, they could repeat the
testing some weeks later and see that not only does it now match, but....er...welll...I
don't want to get on my soap box for this one.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:05:53
EID:1d54 2259a0a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75dee0b1
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 32e9e585
MG>> Speaking of IQ and shoe size, I saw Prewett's page a day or
MG>> two ago. The people in the lab hadn't believed me. One
MG>> good thing about the guy...he's gawddamned consistant.
EM> And, pray tell, what would be the address of that choice site?
Forgot. Search for mosquito.net and look through their homepage section
and he's there.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:10:47
EID:8554 2259a140
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75deec19
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 15dbf1c8
SS> If I do a really, really good job of looking like a fool will
SS> some benevolent stranger send _me_ a pizza?
Post your address there and tell them you like anchovies.
Then expect to be enlisted in NAMBLA.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 25 Feb 97 20:12:44
EID:5e7d 2259a180
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75def117
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32deebf2
MG>> Bandwagon arguements do not wash. Loads of people believed
MG>> the Earth to be flat once. This did not make it so. Jst
MG>> because many are brainwashed, does not make your god real.
PD> Neither do counter arguments using bandwagons. Just because
PD> people thought the world was flat once does not mean doesn't
PD> exist.
Try to explain this. If you believes that the earth is flat, does that
make it flat?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:20:44
EID:01a9 225a9a80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75eba5b8
MG>> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your
MG>> stinking god punish homosexuality without punishing
MG>> homosexuals.
DR> Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
DR> Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
DR> they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
DR> worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
DR> Robertson.
I'm certain that Jelly will waffle onthis as well. He doesn't have an answer
that I will like.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:22:09
EID:18bf 225a9ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75eba9b7
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330e425e
KY> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God
KY> must be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you,
KY> the idea that God created us, is the most logical explanation we
KY> have.
I don't know if you believe that repeating it will make it true, but it
won't.
The above is not evidence. Take it from me. I make my living looking for
evidence.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Joe Martin
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:25:02
EID:3ee0 225a9b20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ebb1ef
REPLY: 1:134/67.333 51584342
JM> Laurie... are you _STILL_ trying to use this misquote?
JM> It's been debunked in DEBATE and EVOLUTION at least 4 or 5
JM> times... I guess since it doesn't work _there_ anymore you
JM> feel that you can use it here... Well...
Laurie is a stupid little fucker. He gets debunked witht he same taken
from context quotes in three or four echoes by a dozen people and he doesn't
have the brains to quit. If he would just tkae his fairy tales to a bunch
of believers so that no one would laugh at him it would make it easier on
all of us.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 26 Feb 97 19:26:53
EID:5814 225a9b40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 75ebc84a
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 330c8334
JM> I doubt one will, actually. I certainly wouldn't want to
JM> attempt to provide you with data because there isn't any I
JM> could give you. I consider deism to be just as much mental
JM> masturbation as any other religion... but masturbation can
JM> still be fun! B-})
I have no problem with desim as long as it's not masqueraded for something
that it is not. HOLYSMOKE to me is not about debunking deism, because you
can't really do that. It is more fun to debunk fanatics of all stripes.
What witht he religious wackos we get, we get the conspiracy freaks and
even some UFO nuts. As they say, you can't buy this kind of entertainment.
JM> There is a very interesting tome by Gustav Jahoda called "The
JM> Psychology of Superstition" that I would recommend to everyone
JM> interested in the subject (which I assume is everyone here). No
JM> discussion of "gods" can be complete without bringing some
JM> psychology into the pot.
JM> As Jahoda notes, superstitions involving ritual, which by
JM> extension includes all "religions" IMO, have "a common root in
JM> behaviour mechanism whose species-preserving function is
JM> obvious: for a living being lacking insight into the relation
JM> between causes and effects it must be extremely useful to cling
JM> exactitude. The principle 'You never know what might happen if
JM> you don't' is fully expressed in such superstitions." (The
JM> Psychology of Superstition - Gustav Jahoda. Penguin edition
JM> page 145)
So he says that a large dose of ignorance and a large bet placed on Pascal's
Wager will do the trick for them? I agree.
JM> The important part of the above quote is "...a living being
JM> lacking insight into the relation between causes and
JM> effects..." It is my contention, and that of others, that those
JM> afflicted with "religion" are suffering from that lack of
JM> insight into causes and effects and depend on their religion
JM> (or their priests) to provide it for them.
It's a wonder they can tie their own shoes.
But not so much a wonder that you hear tales of christians abusing their
kids. Wht else can you learn from them? The answer is obvious. They shoudlbe
teaching much of the stuff that is in the bible, the things that are decent
and that religion should be based on, instead of hatred for gays and etc.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:12:08
EID:0a32 22596180
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 331355a8
-=> Quoting David Rice to Ken Young <=-
KY> The Bosnia situation could be debated, as far as who
KY> really is causing the violent actions.
DR> One of which is Christian, you ninny. Both sides murder
DR> the other side; both sides rape young women from the
DR> other side and enslave them to prostitution.
Actually, the conflict in Bosnia has 3 sides to it. 2 of which
are Christian - the predominantly Orthodox Serbians and the
predominantly Catholic Croatians.
All 3 sides have engaged in murder, rape and various other
sundry activities associated with modern civil wars.
... Cheap modems work just fi.... ~&#$@{ NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: All
|Sub: You won't believe this q
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:21:10
EID:04b6 225962a0
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 331357c6
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
FR> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
FR> loved. - Ken Young
FR> To all you Christians: He's one of yours.
KY> Thank you for repeating my words of wisdom.. Just one tiny
KY> bit of my brilliance that everyone should realize.
KY> Just because someone will have an unfortunate eternity,
KY> does not mean you love them any less.
To para-phrase Otto from A Fish Called Wanda:
"Oh no, it's K-K-K-Ken, c-c-c-coming to c-c-c-convert us!"
... "I think that I'm dizzy, and I rather like it." - Pinky
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: Kosher and Gentiles
|Date: 26 Feb 97 21:08:27
EID:fcf6 225aa900
Whilst masticating on , Bryson Hughes (1:116/17)
wrote to all:
BH> This is why I declare the validity of the expression of Messianic Judaism
BH> for Jewish people, as well as the validity of Gentile faith in Messiah.
Declare what you wish; however, actual Jews do not and will not consider
your version of Christianity to be Judaism, no matter what you call it.
--- Msged/2 4.10
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 24 Feb 97 05:12:27
EID:3d92 22582980
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311779b
REPLY: 1:3652/1 3307964B
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Jason Harmon said this about Exemplifying
examples
G'day Jason,
[Hell]
KY>> And of course, God has never put anyone there.. People do it to
KY>> themselves..
JH> Riiiight. I refuse to go to hell. So, where do I go when I die?
JH> If I have a choice, I'll drop by heaven to torment you and your
JH> brethren.
I don't think you'll have to mate. If all the xtian faiths end up in
heaven I'd say they'd be busy thumping each other around the head with
bibles.
/\\ark...
... "Place it on its side and it's the symbol meaning... Infinity!
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 24 Feb 97 06:13:04
EID:4fa2 225831a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331185d0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330d3fa4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about READING INCOMPREHENSI
DH>> See, now that's scarey. Do you own any guns?
DW>> He once used the alias "Patriot." What do you think?
KY> WHile I do have guns, not all "patriots" do. Some just aren't into
it.
KY> And actually I am not crazy about guns. Just see that they are
KY> necessary.
Now this is scary. A fundy who claims his god will protect him but has
possession of at least one firearm incase his god doesn't. Hear that
sound, Ken? That's the sound of the arse falling out of your faith.
/\\ark...
... I'd rather be riding a dragon.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Have enough already, dickbrain?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:45:39
EID:b5ae 225875a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311fdf3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e6603
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Dan Ceppa said this about Have enough already,
dickbrain?
G'day Dan,
[Abram Garcia]
MO>> Where are you, you cowardly little prick? You wanted the opportunity
DC> So far, it seems like your warm invitation to Abram has not
DC> been acknowledged or accepted by him.
So it seems mate. :-( I can't say I'm not dissapointed.
DC> Such a pity, as it sounds like he had talent.
He would have provided some entertainment at best. Still, we
should be thankful for Ken Young. I haven't laughed so much in years.
DC> Oh well, you can always visit the washed up has-been back
DC> in the minors.
Speaking of which, check out the message after this one to see what was
in
the local area today.
/\\ark...
... What you forget is that no one has a right to live. -- Ken Wiens
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:59:00
EID:d5c2 22587760
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311fe3d
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Ok all. Another bit of fun from the local area. Be sure to visit the
homepage at the bottom of the message and say hi.
* This message forwarded from area 'GEN_EZY' (GEN_EZY)
* Original message dated 23 Feb 97, at 15:57:50 from Jammer
On Fri 21-Feb-1997 2:45a, Homer Simpson wrote:
HS> so i would just like to give a small reply to each person that replyed
HS> to me.
Homer, give it a break. Look at it logically.
Christians Right | Athiests Right
-----------------------------------+----------------------
If you |
Believe You're set then! | You havn't lost anything.
in God |
-----------------------------------+----------------------
If You You're gunna roast | You're set, but that just means
Don't in hell | nothing happens after we're dead..
---------------------------------------------------------
If People can't figure that much out in their minds after a little
provocation, It's their own fault if They're not Christians and God really
does exist.
If People are SO sure that he doesn't and they're willing to take the chance
that he doesn't, that's their choice. If their right, they'll have alot
of
fun while they're still alive, living by their own rules, and if their
wrong, erp.
What's more, It says in the Bible(tm) that if you tell people once and they
argue, just leave. It *really* is not a good idea to post like that around
this forum, where the Majority are Athiests.
Anyway, by your colourful language, you sound like a JW, which means I
should be fighting you anyway. :-)
---
That's all. I'm posting this publicly in case anyone wants a discussion
(not
a total flamage like what happened to HS) about this... :-) One needs to
hone one's skills for aus.flame..... :-)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Uhr
jamz@verbal.apana.org.au
http://verbal.apana.org.au/~jamz/jamzhome.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:51:41
EID:9853 22587660
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3311ff5d
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 330e162e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Judith Bandsma said this about Blavatsky?
G'day Judith,
MO>> can't find a link to the HOLYSMOKE alignment page. Help?
JB> KatPurr's Window...http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/
JB> You should be able to find it there.
Thankyou. Have you received my alignment thingy as yet? If not I'll post
it here.
/\\ark...
... "Are you suggesting that coconuts are migratory?" - Monty Python
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:08:14
EID:57ac 22587900
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3312033e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 330e51da
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Dan Ceppa said this about most Xians only
"iffy"
G'day Dan,
SQ>> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ>> -some- charisma. :-/
MO>> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
DC> The Pope. And, I'm still upset that he is of Polish descent.
I've pondered that on occasion myself. Time to do a little research
methinks. I wonder if the vatican has a webpage? Probably something
rediculous like www.saviour.edu or www.con.com
/\\ark...
... A church that sets up a religious faith as more essential than purity,
than kindness, charity or goodness, is a dangerous institution. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Trivia
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:17:18
EID:d0a9 22587a20
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3312055e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Melanie and Mike's
The Logical World of Etymology
Updated on February 16, 1997.
Word and Word Origin of the Week
We must admit that this is one which we have just learned, but it is such
a good one we thought we just had to share it with you, our devoted
readers. The Christians of Renaissance France were perplexed: performing
a religious play would be an act of piety, but an actor imitating Jesus
or
Mary would be the sin of pride. What to do? What to do? Fortunately,
a
solution was found whereby they dramatised the Gospels without risking
eternal perdition -- they employed puppets. One of their favorite puppet
plays was that performed for the feast of the Assumption of Mary. The
crude puppets used in such plays therefore came to be known by the name
Marie, French for Mary, of course. Yes, bizarre as this sounds, this is
why a string puppet is called a marionette; it is a "little Mary".
The term entered English in about 1620, borrowed directly from French
marionette.(MC/MEL)
melanie@phoenix.net
/\\ark...
... and pulling back on the stick makes the cow smaller...
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: DIRECT DIALLING
|Date: 24 Feb 97 15:48:11
EID:8524 22587e00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33120c9b
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Becke Boyer said this about DIRECT DIALLING
G'day Becke,
MO>> time (your time) would be best to find more than five people in
MO>> #holysmoke?
BB> Hmm...there's usually a shitload of people there between 9pm and 1am
You're right. About midday here.
BB> Standard Time. Not sure what country you're in, (I assume Australia),
Right again. And contrary to popular belief we don't "chuck another
shrimp on the barby".
BB>>> irc.another.net
MO>> I thought it was being moved from here?
BB> Not that I know of. You may be thinking of the move from undernet to
BB> anothernet.
That'd be it. Thanks.
/\\ark...
... Avoid doctors who do prostate exams with their hands on your shoulders.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:57:02
EID:1f34 225a4720
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33143fee
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330e6b4a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Cracker Barrel
Boycot
G'day Rod,
[Violent gays]
MO>> christians and gays to see which had the highest percentage of criminal
MO>> convictions recorded against it. Go on. Tell me it'd be the homosexuals.
RS> At this point, you will probably hear the scream of some "Dr
RS> Cameron" research -- something about the top-10 murderers in US
RS> history being predominantly gay.
Even if that _were_ true, a cross-section of both groups would
provide an interesting statistic IMNSHO. Having predominately gay people
in the top 10 of the criminal community still leaves a hell of alot
of untapped information.
RS> Maybe something about Jeffrey Dahmer? Of course, it will not
RS> *validate* any statement about gays being more violent.
I'd have to see evidence to this fact as well. Ol' Jelly does not instill
any confidence in me regarding his upbringing.
RS> I'm tempted to say that gay people tend to try and find a
RS> non-violent solution to a situation, but that does not mean I
I would agree, wholeheartedly. And I work with two, (another admission by
a workmate last week. (Not that I give a flying fuck)).
RS> I'd say lately that gay people have been taking self-defense
RS> courses, and learning to "bash back" to stop an attacker. Unlike
RS> the 70s and 80s, where gay bashings just "happened", gay people
RS> aren't willing to take it anymore. Unfortunately, that now means
RS> we're being gunned down instead of bashed. Of course, gays are
RS> now carrying guns :)
Scary fuckin' situation. Still, mix bad attitude, monomania, lack of
education, stupidity or an unwillingness to learn and you have a rather
volatile combination. Christians generally fit this catagory
unfortunately. :-(
RS> Next, the insecure hets will be grabbing TANKS with
RS> flame-throwers :) :)
Where do I get one?!?!
MO>> Have you ever considered that gay people may have a particular gene
MO>> hetrosexuals don't have that would control their sexuality?
RS> Perhaps, and more likely, a combination of genes that determine
RS> *all* sexual orientations along a spectrum from 100% straight to
RS> 100% gay.
Makes sense. Then again, I'm open to theory. Something a few of us in
here could learn from.
MO>> Perhaps something like an undersized (or enlarged), gland in the
brain?
RS> There is the claim of a smaller "nerve bundle" (I think) in the
RS> hypothalamus (I think), that Dean Hamer researched, however, it
RS> was not conclusive and certainly has not been verified.
Just a thought. (I ain't no fucking brain surgeon!) LOL!!
MO>> Mental instability?
RS> Has been ruled out.
An innocent example and one I already knew was incorrect. If Ken had
suggested it or had concurred, the matter of education would have been
simpler.
MO>> Too many cornflakes as a child?
RS> It's that riboflavin overload, yep, gotta be!
:) I'm a coco-pops man myself. ;)
MO>> Instead of using that fucking book of yours as a shield, how about
MO>> looking for answers in a methodical manner?
RS> Because it scares him, besides which, the bible clearly states....
But of course. I suggest he use it as an eight pointed suppository. It'll
certainly do more good.
MO>> Afterall, your "faith" would only be stronger for it but I fear
MO>> you'll refute anything logical as heresy and ignore it anyway.
RS> I've already provided him with literature to correct his errant
RS> viewpoint. He just stuck his fingers in his ears, and resolved
RS> to hold Jeeezus and his bible closer.
Idiots.
RS> The only solution for some Christians is to remove their
RS> "religious book" from their hand before rigor mortis sets in.
Or the example outlined above. ]->
KY>> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
KY>> loved.
MO>> You fucking beauty. "I love you, sinner, but yer gonna roast anyway!"
MO>> just get sillier by the week. Your god's going to piss himself laughing
MO>> when he sees you front up at the pearly gates. Idiot.
RS> As I said, get him before rigor mortis sets in.
I think he may have already passed through the gates of Purgatory. There's
no way back IMO.
/\\ark...
... "Grow some hair, Picard. Your brain must be getting cold." -- Q
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 26 Feb 97 07:56:49
EID:de88 225a3f00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144121
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330dc03e
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Around the World
in 80 P
G'day Rod,
RS> Oh, well, what a bitch that will be. We will all get to heaven,
RS> and find there is no drinking water.
MO>> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub there.
MO>> ;-)
RS> Of course, and the philosophy of Hell(tm) is a much better idea
RS> anyway. Who'd want to be in Ned-Flanders-ville when you can be
RS> with all the fornicators, drunkards, idolaters, gays, and
RS> generally *excellent* non-Christians in Hell.
Definately my kinda place. A few beers. A quick bonk. Decent music. Heaps
of friends. Another beer. Two more bonks. Free cigarettes. Yep. That's for
me. ;^)
RS> Why, hell sounds like a delectable 24-hour-a-day, eternal party!
I'll save ya a seat. ]->
/\\ark...
... "If anyone ever sets fire to this city, it's going to be *me*."
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:02:23
EID:5253 225a4040
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314426f
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, DAVID RICE said this about CRACKER BARREL
BOYCOT
G'day DAVID,
KY>>> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
MO>> An interesting statistic would be a cross-section of
MO>> both christians and gays to see which had the highest
MO>> percentage of criminal convictions recorded against
DR> That's an interesting thought. Christianity taken as a
I think so too mate. Any clues where one might find such information?
Maybe a website somewhere?
DR> whole breeds violence; if holosexuals are less violence,
^^^^^^^^^^^
Homosexuals that appear when you look at them in the right light and
dissapear when you turn away? (I couldn't resist) ;-)
DR> whether by nature or nurture, what happens to Christians
DR> who are also homosexual? Does the Christianity-induced
DR> violence get canceled out?
Interesting concept. Hmm... Must be how Jelly can carry a firearm.
/\\ark...
... Only stupid fundies argue with taglines . . .
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:04:36
EID:38bd 225a4080
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331442f4
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1a87bf87
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Fredric Rice said this about Book Theft
G'day Fredric,
NS>> they will not let me > trying for years to get into that place myself
mon>> Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!! A christian with a sense of humour!
FR> That _was_ funny. Course it can be used to suggest that the people
in
FR> the racist church weren't "True Christians" -- like every other church.
Or to lull us into a false sense of kinship. I spotted it too. Still, I
haven't seen anything profoundly stupid being uttered as yet. Mind you,
I'm not expecting that trait to last. ;-/
/\\ark...
... "The chicken probably came before the egg because it is
hard to imagine God wanting to sit on an egg."
-Unknown
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:14:04
EID:d36f 225a41c0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314452c
REPLY: 1:124/9005 330f5148
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Steve Quarrella said this about most Xians
only "iffy"
G'day Steve,
KY>>>>> Of course, I have been told even by some Catholics, that they are
KY>>>>> not Christians.
SQ> wearing blue clothing." This statement goes up into the Top 50 stupid
SQ> things I've read in this echo. That's quite an accomplishment Ken has
SQ> pulled off there.
Agreed. I literally had fits of hysterics forcing me to walk outside for
a
while. After 10 years labouring in various factories I never thought I'd
see the height of human stupidity in a supposedly computer literate echo.
I still can't believe he said it. ;-)))
MON>> a young boy with a bag of lollies and his sense of loss when the bag
MON>> is empty, this is how I feel after I've read all of Jelly's posts.
A
SQ> Wish you had been here when some of the HOLYSMOKE Classic Posters were
SQ> here, like Ron Stringfellow, Charlie Ray, Phil Morrison, JBS, and
SQ> others. You can't pay for entertainment that good. :)
Mate, I've never seen anything like it. I truly hope he hangs around as
I
always enjoy a good laugh. ;)
MON>> Who knows? But we are dealing with irrational people with
MON>> irrational beliefs fighting ludicrously irrational "battles". I don't
SQ> I wish that they'd curb their god, and make certain he doesn't take
a
SQ> dump on my lawn or try to rub up and down on my leg. :-/
Tried a rolled-up newspaper?
SQ>>> they're so preoccupied with Catholicism. This Polish guy has got
SQ>>> -some- charisma. :-/
MON>> I must have missed something somewhere? What Polish guy?
SQ> I was talking about how preoccupied with Catholicism our evangalical
SQ> acquaintances seem to be. The Roman Catholic church is currently
SQ> headed up by a pole by the name of Karol Wojtyla. These days (well,
SQ> since September of 1978), he calls himself "John Paul II." :)
Ah. That's something I didn't know. I also didn't realise he'd been around
that long. (Fuck! Where does the time go?)
SQ> I had someone at work a year ago getting into my hair with her
SQ> Catholicism. I got rid of her by saying "I liked the first John Paul
SQ> better." :)
My knowledge of these things is pretty sparce but didn't he kick
off some centuries ago?
/\\ark...
... Jesus was very pleasant, and had a nice Harley-Davidson.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: Virgin fundies!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:31:42
EID:4acd 225a43e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3314485a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
G'day all. Well, something interesting has occured on my local BBS. The
owner of the BBS (A good friend of mine BTW), is allowing religious
discussion in the general message area. While this is good it leaves me
wondering why the two religious fuckwits on said BBS don't have the balls
to post HERE. Enter................me! ]-> If it's alright with the
general population of HOLYSMOKE I'd like to start forwarding these
messages into here where they can be replied to. As they aren't answering
mail in HOLYSMOKE I'll forward replies from here to the relevant area in
an attempt to get them to put their god where their mouths are, so to
speak. I think it would prove beneficial by either providing some more
victims err... christians or getting them to keep it in the correct
place; here or at church. The one thing that is not tolerated in the
general area is swearing. Feedback please.
*** Area: GEN_EZY Date: 25 Feb 97 20:10:32
*** From: Veg (292:363/821.0)
*** To : Homer Simpson
*** Subj: nu-bible.txt
On Tue 25-Feb-1997 0:06 , Homer Simpson wrote:
HS> sorry Veg
HS> send me private mail if you want to chat concerning the bible message.
No need to be sorry. I really think that if you don't want to take the
conversation to HOLYSMOKE (an echo dedicated to this sort of discussion),
then feel free to discuss it here. It is general chatter, as long as it's
not flaming :-)
This is designred to be a message based board, so the more public
discussions, the happier I feel.
Ciao for now,
Shaun.
.-----------------.-----------------------------.----------------------.
| Verbal Verbatim | IRC nick : Veg |"It's always the same,|
| Running on an | sgamble@verbal.apana.org.au |I'm running towards |
| Amiga 4000 | http://verbal.apana.org.au |nothing" -The Cure |
| with CNet 4.25 | telnet in as well | A Forest |
`-----------------^-----------------------------^----------------------'
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (292:363/821)
/\\ark...
... "Unleash the atheists! Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of reason!"
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 27 Feb 97 03:39:35
EID:16a5 225b1ce0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144ba3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 330e2cc4
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about A toast to dracula
RS>> try your salvation guilt trip on someone who has never been
RS>> touched by the scourge of Christian faith, weakling?
KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
You are weak. You *can't* survive without 'your god'. I am strong. I
*don't* need one. Since your admission that you carry a firearm you'll
never be able to convince me at least that your god is nothing but a
figment of your vivid imagination, an entity you need to thank for the
good things with an adversary you need to blame for the bad. What a
despicable person you are. So low, infact, you could probably hopscotch
under a scab. You spineless, miserable little pleb.
/\\ark...
... Find God? Why? Is he missing?
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Idiocy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:51:24
EID:c2e9 225a4660
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33144dec
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331007ea
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about Idiocy
JH>> If your going to keep quoting your bible like this, you're going
to
JH>> have to give us a reason to trust it. So, do you have any evidence
JH>> that this book of yours can be trusted?
KY> Well, has it ever lied to you before? :)
It certainly provides some comical reading material.
KY> Nothing that you would accept as evidence. Just that it is the word
of
KY> God, and anything God says is true.
Everything? Does this mean you drop your strides and hang a brown-eye
whenever someone you don't like passes you by? Exodus 33:23
/\\ark...
... You cannot stuff your minds with the lives of saints and grow good on
the stuffing. - Washburn
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 13 Feb 97 13:04:10
EID:1924 224d6880
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 3035c690
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33021cc9
Hello Don!
Don Martin wrote in a message to Jan deBoer:
Jd> Jan deBoer Oshawa, Ont. Defrocked Agnostic 3 years
Jd> Canada Intermittent
Jd> at whim of
Jd> Xtian Sysops
DM> What _I_ want to know, is who is _frocking_ agnostics
DM> these days? Or is this just a Canadian thing?
Could be :-) But I think it is a one of those old-fashion-isms
still used in the former Colonial world. "Frock" is still very
much part of the South African vocabulary to describe high class
dresses for the ladies.
Thus, when I am wearing my best threads I guess I could be
called "a frocked agnostic".
The person paying for those frocks must therefore qualify as
"a frocker". Depending on the circumstances of the "frockee"
it may it may be herself, the spouse, a lover, a parent etc.
I will not even attempt speculating if Jan went back into the
closet (d&r).
... Greetings from Mimi :-)
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: All
|Sub: The messianic legacy
|Date: 18 Feb 97 06:42:59
EID:b03f 22523540
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 33094f53
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
BOOK REVIEW OF "THE MESSIANIC LEGACY"
Baigent, M., Leigh, R. & Lincoln, M. 1987. _The messianic legacy_. New York:
Henry Holt.
The main theme of this book appears to be the way in which a small semi-secret
society, the Prieure de Sion is seeking to achieve its objective of restoring
a Merovingian monarch to the throne of France. The Merovingians apparently
claimed descent from the Old Testament House of David, and in an earlier
work, _The holy blood and the holy grail_, the authors put forward the hypothesis
that this decent was through Jesus or his immediate family.
The Merovingians (descendants of Merovech) were kings in what is now France
from the 5th to the 8th century, and they conquered the Visigoths who had
sacked Rome in AD 410, bringing away treasure reputed to include the treasures
of the temple at Jerusalem, which had itself been sacked by the Romans in
AD 70.
Baigent et al. have written the book in three parts. The first, "The Messiah"
deals with the idea of the Messiah in Judaism and early Christianity. The
second, "The quest for meaning", deals with faith and symbolism in modern
Western society. The third is a bewilderingly detailed account of contacts
and connections between the Prieure de Sion and various national and international
figures and organisations in the twentieth century.
The connections between the three parts of the books are not at all clear,
and nor it is clear how material in the first two parts contributes to the
hypothesis. The authors have included a lot of material without bothering
to make it clear why they have included it.
The first part, on the idea of the Messiah, seems to be intended to show
that a descendant of the Jewish royal line could have gone to the Celtic
area, on the Western seaboard of Europe. The authors throw in facts, fallacies,
speculations and conjectures, most of which seem irrelevant to whatever
point it is they are trying to make. Their knowledge of history seems shaky
at several points, and they don't even attempt to paper over the cracks.
Briefly, their thesis seems to be that Jesus went to Jerusalem intending
to become king of the Jews. The attempt was foiled by his arrest and execution
at the hands of the Romans and Jewish collaborators. The succession passed
to his brother James, and then this Jewish royalist/nationalist movement
split, with the larger part, led by Paul, severing connections with Jewish
nationalism. The nationalist section continued, however, as the Ebionites,
who later made an alliance with the Nestorians, who provided a kind of theological
halfway house. The Nestorians were influential in Egypt, and from there
spread to Ireland, where in some unspecified fashion they were linked to
the Prieure de Sion. There are too many gaps, and much of it is based on
false assumptions. It simply does not make sense.
Quite a large proportion of the illustrations make the point of similarities
between Egyptian and Irish Christianity. The authors say that Nestorius
was exiled to Egypt, and when Nestorius was condemned as a heretic in 451
the Egyptian Church refused to accept the ruling it split with "Roman Orthodoxy"
and formed the Coptic Church. This is simply a gross distortion of history,
and shows that the authors did not do their homework. The majority of Egyptian
Christians did not accept the decisions of the Council of Chalcedon in 451,
but for precisely the opposite reason that the author hints at. They thought
the Council was too Nestorian, and preferred the teaching of their own former
bishop Cyril, who was utterly opposed to Nestorius. So whatever was exported
from Egypt to Ireland or anywhere else, it was not Nestorian/Ebionite teaching,
but the exact opposite.
Egyptian missionaries did go to France, and Christian monasticism was first
developed in Egypt. It was exported to most other parts of the Christian
world, and thus provided the chief instrument for the evangelisation of
Europe and part of Asia. Between 500 and 1500 most Christian missionaries
were monks. Baigent et al., however, make some astoundingly naive statements
- for example that the monastic movement in Egypt "represented a form of
opposition to the rigidly hierarchical structures of Rome", and that the
monks were "tolerant" as opposed to the "intolerant" urban church. In fact
the reverse was true. The Egyptian monks regarded the urban church as lax
and effete, and they kept out of the cities for that reason.
The second part of the book deals with faith and symbols in Western European
society. In some ways it is the best part. The authors are for the most
part giving their own opinions, and are therefore not trying to base conclusions
on "facts" that (in the first part) often turn out to be conjecture or wrong
guesses. They look at the loss of faith in Western European society, and
the consequent search for substitute faiths, such as Communism and Nazism.
When they get on to some aspects of modern Christianity, they go off the
rails again. A notable example is their attempt to make the British Israel
theory a necessary part of fundamentalism, and even of South African apartheid.
Now while it is true that some British Israelites might be fundamentalists,
and that some supporters of apartheid were British Israelites, the British
Israel theory was certainly not a part of fundamentalism, nor was it necessarily
part of the thinking of those who formulated the apartheid policy. This
is a failure in logic as well as in facts.
How it fits in with the third part is not clear, unless it is intended to
show that monarchy is a powerful symbol that can be linked with faith. But
if that is the intention, it certainly does not succeed.
The third part is a very detailed account of meetings and connections of
various members of the Prieure de Sion and possible members with insurers,
spies, politicians and others. It seems to bear no relation to the other
two parts, and the point it is trying to make is obscure. The authors end
up by saying that they are sympathetic towards some of the objectives of
the Prieure de Sion, but sceptical or dubious about others. The trouble
is that they have not made it very clear what those aims are. They do seem
to think, however, that the Prieure de Sion might be capable of producing
a Messiah of the kind that the authors think Jesus actually was.
Well, who knows, we might some day see some descendant of the Merovingian
line riding to the EU headquarters in Brussels on a donkey. Watch the press
folks!
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety - The Kinks
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: All
|Sub: Religion and the internet
|Date: 22 Feb 97 14:51:51
EID:3d65 22567660
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 330f07f1
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
The following is a reply I wrote to a message on NUREL-L, the mailing
list for discussing new religious movements. Some people here may be
interested.
Steve Hayes is replying to smszilag@acs.ucalgary.ca, who wrote to steve
hayes
on 22 Feb 97 02:59:04:
> From: Sheila Marie Szilagyi
> Subject: Religion on the internet
> There are a few curious students inquiring about the relationship of
> the internet and religion. Is the international forum of the internet
> promoting an exchange of ideas between different faiths? Does this
> exchange promote a greater acceptance of various beliefs or does it
> foster misunderstanding and conflict? Digital technology displaces the
> scriptures from their physical medium and they are caught in an active
> medium subject to editing and interpretation. Scripture has
> historically been presented in a static textual form; will the
> translation of scripture into an electonic medium be detremental to the
> maintainance of religions in their true form?
It fosters both greater acceptance, and greater misunderstanding and conflict.
I suggest that you ask your students to do a research project. Let them
read
messages for two weeks in the INTERFAITH and HOLYSMOKE forums on Fidonet,
and
then analyse these messages to see what they reveal.
Both these forums are for discussions of religion, and members of any and
all
religions may participate. But there is a strong contrast in their styles.
The
INTERFAITH conference promotes greater understanding and tolerance of different
religious beliefs, though it tends to be intolerant of those whom its
moderators (sometimes unfairly) perceive as intolerant. The HOLYSMOKE
conference actively promotes misunderstanding, misrepresentation and
intolerance, and many of the messages consist of vulgar personal abuse.
It would be very interesting for your students to participate for a couple
of
weeks, collect a representative selection of messages, and analyse the
different styles, the content of the messages, and the degree to which
they
promote tolerance or intolerance; understanding or misunderstanding.
These are just two forums out of many, and if others could be found it would
perhaps make a more interesting study, but these two do reflect sharply
differing approaches.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... Steve Hayes - Editorial Department, University of South Africa
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:21:42
EID:a7ef 225ba2a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315ecef
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 75dec4fa
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Martis dies February 25 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
MG>>> Did anybody ever ask him what bible verses were instructing him to
MG>>> hate the catholic church?
SQ>> Doesn't he have those on his web page?
MG> I didn't read the whdo thing. I didn't have the time. Suffice it to
say
MG> that there is enough there that the most stalwart christian will believes
MG> that he's a wacko.
And stalwart non-Christians will certainly agree!
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:38:48
EID:86c0 225ba4c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315f1e0
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 3314452c
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Mark!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Mark O'Neill ad Steve Quarrella:
MON> Agreed. I literally had fits of hysterics forcing me to walk outside
for
MON> a while.
Catholics who say that they're not really Catholics. I wish "Jelly"
could get these people into the echo, IF THEY EXIST.
SQ>> Wish you had been here when some of the HOLYSMOKE Classic Posters were
SQ>> here, like Ron Stringfellow, Charlie Ray, Phil Morrison, JBS, and
MON>
Even HOLYSMOKE had a Golden Age. I miss Jesse Jones quite a bit, but he'll
come back before Jesus does. :)
MON> Ah. That's something I didn't know. I also didn't realise he'd been
MON> around that long. (Fuck! Where does the time go?)
If John Paul II hadn't been such an athletic person before he was pope,
I'd guess that the assassination attempt 15 years ago would have finished
him off for good. He's apparently -fascinated- by the year 2000, so I'd
look for him to stay alive until at least then (Kind of like George Burns
stuck it out for 100 and then died a few weeks afterwards.).
SQ>> I had someone at work a year ago getting into my hair with her
SQ>> Catholicism. I got rid of her by saying "I liked the first John Paul
SQ>> better." :)
MON> My knowledge of these things is pretty sparce but didn't he
kick
MON> off some centuries ago?
Nope...he died in October of 1978, after having been pope for only 33 days.
Although I think the guy would have been a diplomatic nightmare -- he truly
was a pastoral priest -- he probably would have done wonders for the Vatican's
PR department. I have read about and heard more Catholics who said "He
made me proud to be a Catholic again." He was quite a guy. Shit, the current
pontiff is quite a guy too, but I think he's a fascist. :)
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Scott Taylor
|Sub: You won't believe this q
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:43:30
EID:3c85 225ba560
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315f222
REPLY: 3:800/432.0 331357c6
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Scott!
Martis dies February 25 1997, Dixit Scott Taylor ad All:
KY>> Thank you for repeating my words of wisdom.. Just one tiny bit of
KY>> my brilliance that everyone should realize. Just because someone
KY>> will have an unfortunate eternity, does not mean you love them any
KY>> less.
ST> To para-phrase Otto from A Fish Called Wanda:
ST> "Oh no, it's K-K-K-Ken, c-c-c-coming to c-c-c-convert us!"
ROFL! "Ah, but gorillas don't read the Bible!" 'Yes, they do, Otto! They
just don't understand it!" :)
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:47:02
EID:86c0 225ba5e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3315f513
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 3312033e
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Mark!
Lunae dies February 24 1997, Dixit Mark O'Neill ad Dan Ceppa:
DC>> The Pope. And, I'm still upset that he is of Polish descent.
Dan: So are most Italians. My family was THRILLED about the election of
John Paul I, as he was so very much like "good Pope John." They wouldn't
admit that they didn't like Paul VI -- to do so would be unCatholic of them
-- but I definitely remember a feeling of relief in the Quarrella family
that the Church was getting rid of "Hamlet." Thirty three days later, though,
the reaction was "Un polacco? Un polacco?" And my father is half-Polish!
I don't claim to know what kind of politics goes on in the Vatican these
days, but I'd guess that John Paul II's replacement will be an Italian,
probably from Rome or Northern Italy. Whether he'll be a Pius XIII or a
John XXIV remains to be seen, but the Vatican's still smarting from the
"blunder" of electing a non-Italian pope. They won't admit it, but they
are (even though John Paul II unquestionably played a role in the fall of
Communism in the East).
MON> methinks. I wonder if the vatican has a webpage? Probably something
MON> rediculous like www.saviour.edu or www.con.com
You better believe they have a web page. It's http://www.vatican.va. The
hilarious thing is that work on it has bene "in progress" for over a year
now. Vatican "progress" is (to paraphrase one of its former cardinals) measured
in centuries, not years. :)
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Joe.Seatter@x163-125.gryn.org
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Feb 97 19:26:30
EID:e0a2 22549b40
MSGID: 1:12/98.1 0020a3ad
REPLYTO 1:12/98.1 UUCP
REPLYADDR Joe.Seatter@x163-125.gryn.org
GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.970109
Path: trends.ca!tor250!org!gryn!x163-125!joe.seatter
From: Joe.Seatter@x163-125.gryn.org (Joe Seatter)
Newsgroups: trends.fido.holysmoke
Subject: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
Organization: Helter Skelter ... Time for Revolution
Quoting David Worrell to Laurie Appleton
LA> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
LA> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
LA> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
LA> intelligent Designer."
LA> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
DW> What part of the word "superficially" are you having trouble with?
the s, the u... :)
... Suicide is the most sincere form of self criticism.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Shoot out in North Hollywood
|Date: 28 Feb 97 22:28:04
EID:76fb 225cb382
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1d9649e3
PID: FM 2.02
As you've probably all seen we had quite a shoot out here in
this area -- yesterday I was having lunch at a "Baja Fresh"
about two miles from where the shooting began and thought
about going back today. Star Goat smiles upon me and I stayed
at work for lunch, however.
What's interesting is the speculation the authorities are leaking
out already about the shooters. Due to the tactics and weapons
uses, coupled to the defensive armament and the utter lack of any
fear and seemingly unconcerned demeaner, some cops have started
to suggest that the two have been robbing banks to supply cash for
either "pro-life" terrorist organizations like "Operation Rescue"
or for self-proclaimed "militias."
The mayor has asked that such speculation stop until the facts
are known yet he also voiced his suspicion that one of these
mock "militias" sent these people. It seems that last year there
were 6,600 bank robberies and that Southern California had one
third of them. It also seems that a large percentage of the
bank robberies are used to finance extremists groups; it seems
that not all bank robberies are done by junkies needing to buy
drugs.
As the organizational backgrounds and training backgrounds of the
two dead "suspects" becomes known, anyone want to place a gentelman's
wager that we'll all learn that the most violent bank robbery in
California's history was instigated at the behest of a right-wing
extremist group? To judge by the lack of concern, I would bet
that the two were Islamic fundamentalsts or possibly two clowns
out to help finance their "militia."
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Parker a "Libertarian"
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:23:40
EID:b468 225bb2e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3316099e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c87d233
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad All:
FR> Yes, if this clown represented real Libertarians, I would stop voting
FR> Libertarian as well. The guy is active in Libertarian newsgroups and
FR> writes a right-wing extremist newsletter which spouts often about how
he
FR> and his friends are "Libertarians."
I haven't seen his name in any of the Libertarian stuff that the Libertarian
Party itself sends to me (No, I'm not a member...I just filled out some
stuff on their web site, and you got it: Free mail.).
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:28:38
EID:c53f 225bb380
MSGID: 1:124/9005 33160adc
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1c8912ba
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Ken Young:
KY>> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not have the
KY>> best success in laughing the Christians out of here..
We lost the J-Walkers some time ago, Jones and Jeannault...
Attention, K-Mart shoppers! Inevitably, Young will either suffer a hard
drive crash, or he will invoke the "Let's shake the dust off our feet" excuse
to get out of here.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:56:14
EID:f2aa 2259b700
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
PH>> RS> Hey! Patrick Humphrey... You reading this? Am I "easy"?
PH>> RS> [Rod hopefully jogs Mr Humphrey into remembering what sorta
PH>> RS> stunts we used to pull about 'Rod and Chris slept with Patrick
PH>> RS> and Dale-Ann' :) :) After all, it was true. We had the living
PH>> RS> room floor, and they were safely tucked away in bed with kitties
PH>> RS> safely inside pillow-cases :) :) *mrrrow!*]
PH>> No kidding...to this day, all we have to do to induce sheer terror
in
PH>> them
PH>> is a mention of "you know, Rod and Chris will be coming down for a
visit
PH>> Real Soon Now!". And to think they said cats couldn't be trained...:-)
> :) :) They love us :) :) :) They really love us :) :)
Actually, honey, I think they'd love us to keel over dead from asthma.
*chuckle* I swear they try to sleep on my head whenever I'm down there.
*grin*
PH>> RS> Rod "...ah, those were the days. I hear that Patrick is giving
PH>> RS> Chris and I a wedding present or two that shed fur :) :)" Swift
:)
PH>> Only because we couldn't find RevRon to ship you guys, much less stuff
PH>> him
PH>> in the box and ship him by Eventual Express...:-)
Oh, just send his head. :) I wonder if the Half-Price Books still has
those Bridge Publications from the guy that dropped out of the Co$ and
sold all his internal literature.. *grin*
> I am sure it will :) :) But we prefer kitties. Kitties are fun!
Especially tied to the end of bungee cords. :)
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 4
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:03:46
EID:000f 2259b860
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
JS> Try God's laws once.
At such point as you demonstrate that there is a God lending moral
force to those laws, sure. Until then, I'll stick to my own.
JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz. But
JS> to take what is declared wrong and say openly that it is right, I can't
JS> agree with.
Declared wrong by whom? And based on what standard? Pretty hard to get
an atheist to take that book seriously.
JS> It is interesting to note here that you do not possess 10% of the grace
JS> I demonstrated in my statement.
Little clue for you. You just demonstrated pride. Pride's a sin. Welcome
to hell, Jimmy.
JS> BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23 NIV)
JS> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
The Hell Law states the Hell is reserved for them that believes in it.
Further, the Lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for those that believe in it
on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't.
-- _The Honest Book of Truth_, The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 4
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Educational Experienc
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:06:46
EID:6b73 2259b8c0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
JS> RS> Please, Mr Erudite, tell us of your language skills :)
JS> I was an English major in college.
It is truly a sad but telling fact that English majors at universities
in the United States use such language as you have demonstrated, Jim.
I don't know whether to rail at the government, or pity you.
JS> JS> Perjorative is a noun.
JS> RS> Are you so sure?
JS> Yes.
I think you're looking for "pejorative." And you say you're an English
major?
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 4
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Smegma Staalin
|Date: 26 Feb 97 00:14:36
EID:2f90 225a01c0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> rods> Some of them probably did. :) :) Remember, he likes
RS>> rods> leather, and someone named "Wilbur" and gay biker
RS>> rods> bars :)
RS>> I bet he's a bottom, not a top.
> Oh boy! Won't Chris be excited :) :)
Only if I can keep him as a slave, independent of our relationship. :)
> Fist-a-mister. It's not only a tagline, but an echo tradition.
> :) And I get to sit on the milkcrate... He gets to sit on
> something else :) :) *wink*
> For the humour impaired, btw, I'm "not into that". :)
No, you're into other things, love. :) *grrrrowl*
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Focus on the Family mind
|Date: 26 Feb 97 00:32:32
EID:4193 225a0400
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> That little group, while being anti-abortion, anti-lesbian,
> anti-bestiality, anti-everythingelse, and anti-gay, have a
> solution... "Arresting faggots".
Right. We're going to take all of the guys that love to have sex
with other guys, and lock them up together. This makes a _LOT_
of sense to me.
> Rod "...ever seen the movie 'Pass the Ammo', with Tim Curry and
> Linda Koslowzski? If not... see it! :)" Swift :)
"Gawd made it all..." :)
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: A toast to dracula
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:06:18
EID:a265 225a08c0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> I'm sinless, you gutless and worthless piece of trash. Care to
RS>> try your salvation guilt trip on someone who has never been
RS>> touched by the scourge of Christian faith, weakling?
> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
Is that God? I thought it was your cologne.
> You, on the other hand, must be a very weak and insecure person.
> Otherwise, you would not feel the need to attack soemthing you know
> nothing about.
He knows quite a bit about idiocy. I'm sorry to say he had to cure me
of mine about three years ago. He's trying to help you, Ken. Now lie
down and do everything the nice man tells you to do. :)
> You're sinless? You really need to do something about ego, if you
> think you are perfect.
My fiance didn't say "perfect." He said "sinless." The two concepts
aren't even in the same league, much less the same ballpark. Everyone
makes mistakes from time to time. But mistakes made from errors in
knowledge aren't the same as deliberate moral violations.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:08:46
EID:03f8 225a0900
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
KY>> While I think I meant it more about physical things, there
KY>> is proof of God's existence- us.
RS>> Oh, and please, describe how it is "proof".
> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God must
> be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the idea
> that God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
Then your arguments are doomed from step one. You're trying to claim the
existence of something as proof of the existence of a creator of that
thing. It just doesn't follow. I don't care upon how many falling stars
you wish, and how many crickets you pick up in jars hoping to make it
so. It just isn't going to happen. The laws of logic and rational argument
aren't going to make an exception for you because you can't be bothered
to make a decent attempt at supporting your own crap.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Freedom of choice
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:10:22
EID:8367 225a0940
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> You're compelling gay people to be straight, because you claim
RS>> it's a choice.
RS>> Skin colour can be a choice too, dear boy.
> There is something to be said for sticking with what you naturally
> have. Many people are black, that is how it was meant to be, and
we
> are not change that.
Many people are gay, that is how it was meant to be, and we are not to
change that. *shrug*
> I would say that you should be what you were made to be. If you were
> created white, stay that way. If you were made male, stay that way.
> And if you were made heterosexual, as we all were, stay that way.
But, you see, he wasn't made heterosexual. And neither was I. Now, would
you care to provide some sort of evidence to suggest otherwise that the
scientific community would greatly appreciate examining, or are you simlpy
going to give us more circular crap?
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:21:58
EID:d518 225a0aa0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> Sheesh. What is it with you intellectual small-minds? If you
RS>> are against abortion, don't have one. If you're against
RS>> homosexuality, don't buttfuck. If you are against
RS>> then don't join that religion.
> We could go on from there.. If you are against guns, don't buy one.
> If you are against militias, don't join one. If you are against
> Christianity, don't go to church. If you are against drugs, don't
use
> any. It goes both ways.
Great. Get your laws out of my bedroom, and I'll be more than willing
to get my boot out of your ass.
RS>> Ah, that's easy. A man cannot do what a woman can -- marry a
RS>> man. This is sex discrimination, primarily targetted at gay and
RS>> lesbian individuals.
> Well, why do gays want this right? Is it because they believe
> marriage is important, or is because of the benefits?
I want to marry because I want my relationship recognised as equally
valid and important to society as all of the other lasting relationships
are. I want to marry him because I love him. I want to marry him because
I want to ensure that when he needs me, I can be there for him. I want
to marry him because I want to know that he can be there for me, when I
need. Does the fact that there are at least a hundred implicit benefits
to marriage that same-sex couples currently can not access upset me? Yes.
Do I want those benefits? Yes. But is that the _reason_ for wanting to
marry? No. No more so for us than it would be for any other couple.
This is an easy topic, Kenny. Ask not for whom the clue phone rings,
Ken; it rings for thee.
> But hey, you have as much right as I do.. A gay man can marry a gay
> woman just as a heterosexual man can marry a heterosexual woman..
A
> heterosexual male couldn't marry another heterosexual male, either.
> See? No discrimination whatsoever. :)
A white man can marry a white woman, and a black man can marry a black
woman. See? No discrimination here either.
Your claim of no discrimination was, in essence, already shot down in
Loving v. Virginia. Besides, we're not talking about discriminaton based
on orientation. We're talking about discimination based on sex. A man,
regardless of orientation, can not marry a man, but a woman can. A woman,
regardless of orientation, can not marry a woman, but a man can. That's
sex-based discrimination.
RS>> Remember Colorado Amendment 2?
> AH, but shouldn't something become law, if that is what the majority
> of the public truly wants?
Uh, since when did this country become a majoritarianism? I thought part
of the point of the Constitution was to protect the rights of the minority
from the whim of the majority. Or would you throw the Constitution out the
window, too?
> I would say freedom of religion is one of the most important religions
> there is. One should be able to practice his religion, for the most
> part, any way he wants.
Well, my freedom of religion is being abridged. Your damn religiously-
motivated laws are getting in the way of my life. So get your stupid-ass
zealotry the hell out of my life.
> We do not have the right to all choices. It isn't in the Constitution
> because it isn't needed. If people didn't make a big deal about
> themselves being gay, there wouldn't be any problem at all.
Do you wear a wedding ring? Do your parents? Why do they insist on making
such a big deal out of being straight?
RS>> Yes, you are quite right. The separation of church and state
RS>> clause gives us freedom FROM religion in secular life :)
> If you so choose, but not to the point where you take away someone
> else's right to practice their religion the way they see fit.
Are you saying that your right to practice your religion includes the
right to interfere in my private life? What just happened to MY freedom
of religion?
RS>> The latter part of the same pamphlet states why. You should read
RS>> it. Things about pressure from religious and societal bigots,
RS>> social and familial pressure, and other stuff that just screws up
RS>> their mind, rather than allows them to accept their INNATE sexual
RS>> orientation.
> So, you don't believe anyone switched back, without outside pressure?
No, I don't believe this.
RS>> I'm simply dying to find out. I never chose, you see :)
> Yes you did, you just don't realize it.
Oh, he did? Would you care to present evidence of this? Or is this going
to be another of your "I can't cite evidence; I don't work that way"
claims?
You whackos are all alike. You must learn the Fundy Two-Step (accuse and
dodge) at the same church supper or something.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:24:38
EID:8668 225a0b00
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> Then, I take it, you deny that any homosexuals chose to be gay?
I'll take you a step further, Kenny. I deny that choice is a relevant
question.
Whether or not I chose is 100% _absolutely_ _irrelevant_ to the issue.
If I chose, then it is no different from religion. If I didn't, then
it's no different than sex. In either case, it's a fundamental
characteristic for which I'm being persecuted.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:25:38
EID:bf16 225a0b20
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay, you
> cannot be saved.
I'm sure the MCC will be suprised to hear this one.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:26:18
EID:6d0e 225a0b40
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=>> Quoting Ken Young to Richard Smith <=-
KY>> And how can God not be loving when He came up with a way for us all
to
KY>> have everlasting life in Heaven?
JH>> A loving god wouldn't have created hell.
> So, he should just let evil continue forever, and allow there to be
a
> spiritual anarchy?
A loving god wouldn't have created evil.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 01:29:06
EID:4ff6 225a0ba0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
DW>> Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public?
DW>> Have you ever held hands with her? Why did you feel the
DW>> need to advertise your sexual orientation like that?
> That IMO would not be promoting sexual orientation. I might be a
> little uncomfortable with it, but gays should be allowed to show
> affection just as heterosexual should.
> But, many gays do cause scenes about their lifestyle, and often make
a
> point of people knowing they are gay, without any reason.
How so? Examples, please? And if you think this is an issue, then why
do so many people tell me "That's fine; I'm straight", without any
reason, if I happen to mention that I'm gay?
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 5
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 27 Feb 97 10:59:34
EID:96d5 225b5760
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315e95d
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331389f7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Dan Ceppa said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
DC> the lottery. (BTW, can I increase my chances on that if
DC> I actually place money on it?)
Hair-tearing time...you pick lottery numbers just for the hell of it:
your numbers come up; you are the only one with those numbers; the
jackpot is $46 million; YOU DIDN'T BUY A TICKET.
... Life after Death? Is that like terminate and stay resident?
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [1/2] Fundies
|Date: 27 Feb 97 11:11:46
EID:6c14 225b5960
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315e95e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Lynda Bustilloz said, in a huffy tone of voice, to DAN CEPPA <=-
LB> Ya gotta love it...
LB> ... Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllppppppppppp! Dave Ragland
Methinks God Dan is right about Ragland and the Cap'n IS back.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Douglas Duke
|Sub: Originals only!
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:11:26
EID:f4d0 225ba960
MSGID: 1:229/622 3315f87e
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting Douglas Duke to Bryson Hughes <=-
BH> The later on, when he formed a covenant with the Israelites, he
Got a copy of that covenant, with God's signature?
What's the expiry date?
.JdB
* Sheep cloning - the pews will fill!
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Free Willy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 21:15:16
EID:0b58 225aa9e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc15
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Dan,
On 26 Feb 97 00:02:06 Dan Ceppa wrote to Ken Young...
-> On 22 Feb 97 19:32:14, Ken Young got back to Jason Harmon
JH> And why are we "supposed to be in a Judeo-Christian society"?
JH> Just because you believe in some old book?
KY> Because we are to follow our creator..
One day, Ken tells us we have free will, the next day he tells us we are
"to follow...."
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Duh!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 21:33:36
EID:6159 225aac20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc16
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you
KY> are gay, you cannot be saved.
Can you say "Catch-22", idiot?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Club Med Afterwife
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:09:06
EID:cbf2 225b6120
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc17
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KD> On (17 Feb 97) Ken Young wrote to David Rice...
KY> And it must be comforting for unbelievers to believe that no matter
KY> what they do, there will be no judgement, and no Hell. Do what you
KY> want, because nothing will happen to you either way.
And it must be comforting for believers to believe that no matter what
they do, there will be no judgement, and no Hell. Do what you want,
because nothing will happen to you - just say "I believe", and you
will go to heaven.
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Muchas Garcias!
|Date: 27 Feb 97 10:38:32
EID:8c66 225b54c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc18
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Marilyn,
Jd> in hot tob orgies than purifying libraries. I sure would like
Jd> to know some details of "A Key to...". i.e. ISDN number, or
Jd> publisher, so I can try an inter-library loan!
MB> Here's everything I found about it on amazon.com:
MB> Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin
MB> by Harriet Beecher Stowe
MB> Reprint Edition
MB> Hardcover
[deletia]
Many thanks, Marilyn, much appreciated!
Regards,
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 27 Feb 97 10:50:12
EID:3daa 225b5640
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc19
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Marilyn,
On 22 Feb 97 18:29:52 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> On 11 Feb 97 12:37:32 Dave Hamilton wrote to Jan deBoer...
DH> Sociopaths have a high degree of empathy; what they lack is
DH> social conscience.
Jd> That seems contradictory.
MB> Not at all. You can feel sorry for others and still have no
MB> conscience about robbing them blind -- especially if the empathy
MB> allows you to get "inside" their lives and heads far enough to
MB> REALLY rob 'em good!
I have great difficulty visualizing that. How can someone feel empathy,
or "sorry" for those they are victimizing? The only conceivable emotion
I could see a con artist having for his victims is contempt.
Any show of empathy used to acquire knowledge and get 'inside' victims
lives is surely a pretext, feigned purely for the gain of the sociopath.
As such, it must surely be distinguished from _genuine_ empathy?
Regards,
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bifocals
|Date: 27 Feb 97 11:05:10
EID:f6fd 225b58a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc1a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Marilyn,
On 22 Feb 97 18:34:06 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
MB> Don't be so sure! I LOVE to read, and plan to do a great deal
MB> of it, as soon as my pension checks start rolling in.
Hee, hee - on my pension cheque, reading is about all I can afford to
do......
Maybe I should sent it to Oral Roberts so god can multiply it a thousand
times over.
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Rosemary's Baby
|Date: 27 Feb 97 11:53:46
EID:f868 225b5ea0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3315fc1b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 21 Feb 97 10:52:10 Richard Smith wrote to Jan Deboer...
JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
JD> performed an exorcism on a two year old. Apparently it
JD> worked, although the restraints caused the wicked child
JD> to die of asphyxiation in the process.
RS> I'm trying to keep a file of such things. Is there any way
RS> you could send me more information?
I skimmed through my collection of clippings, but didn't find one on
that incident, sorry. It was well covered by local media.
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: PSYCHOGAWD
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:15:20
EID:c58a 225ba9e0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3315fc19
MSGID: 1:229/622 3315fa02
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
MB>> Not at all. You can feel sorry for others and still have no
MB>> conscience about robbing them blind -- especially if the empathy
MB>> allows you to get "inside" their lives and heads far enough to
MB>> REALLY rob 'em good!
Jd> I have great difficulty visualizing that. How can someone feel
Jd> empathy, or "sorry" for those they are victimizing?
You're confusing empathy with sympathy, Jan.
Folks trained in counselling struggle with maintaining empathy
while avoiding sympathy. Empathy implies understanding, not feeling.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Patrick Humphrey
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:12:44
EID:d95e 225b1180
MSGID: 1:106/114.0 3314aa3e
-=> Patrick Humphrey said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Rod Swift <=-
PH> I think a few folks from HolySmoke need to visit this work of lunacy
PH> and demand to be added to his list...and one more note: until last
JB> I tried to send email from his page the other day...telling him just
JB> how sick he is. It wouldn't go through. :( Maybe I need to try again.
You mean "stalker-d@juno.com" doesn't work? Curiouser and curiouser --
maybe juno.com got wise to what Horsley was up to?
I'll check my sent-mail folder and get Neal's MindSpring address, as
well...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Alec Grynspan
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: Kosher and Gentiles
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:16:43
EID:11ae 225bb200
MSGID: 1:2424/11 33160a19
PID: GED2 2.5 7777DK7
TID: GE/2 1.2
<*[*] [*] [Alan Hess] [Bryson Hughes] [HOLYSMOKE] +>
<+[Kosher and Gentiles] [26 Feb 97 21:08][*][0]*>
A little bit of info from the FAQ on Judaism:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 17.1. What about (sic) "Jews for Jesus" or (sic) "Messianic Jews"?
QUESTION: Are groups calling themselves "Jews for Jesus" or "Messianic
Jews[sic]" Jewish movements?
No, they are Christian organizations. Sadly, their membership includes
persons
who are technically Jewish, but who believe and practice Christianity.
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 17.2. Is belief in Jesus-as-God compatible with any Jewish movements?
No, the belief in Jesus-as-God is idolatry for Jews.
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 17.3. What do missionary groups believe?
Their own statements express their beliefs.
Consider the following confession from the "Jews for Jesus" organization:
-----------
| What evangelical Christians should know about
| JEWS FOR JESUS; [the "O" in FOR is
| A C0NFIDENTIAL REPORT: a six-pointed star -RL]
| _not_ to be distributed to Non-Christians
|
| \ /HAT WE BELIEVE...
| \/\/
|
| While others are content to call themselves "inter-denominational"
or
| "interfaith," we define ourselves as evangelical fundamentalists and we
| seek the cooperation of individuals and Christian bodies which can be
so
| described by their work. Though we will not allow ourselves to be
| committed to any one segment of the church, we believe in affiliation
with
| a local church and in accountability to the church for service and
| discipline.
|
| We feel that we are an arm of the local church. The calling of those
| who minister with Jews for Jesus is primarily that of evangelists, and
| we're always mindful of the fact that we should not usurp the authority
of
| the local pastor. As we effectively win and disciple Jewish people, we
| feel that they should either take their place in a local church of
| evangelical character, or establish a congregation and call their own
| minister. We feel it is our duty to aid the church at large, and we
| consider ourselves as a working arm of the body to gather in the Lost
| Sheep of the House of Israel.
|-------------------End Statement------------------------------
--- NMGate
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:20:03
EID:5ae2 225a5280
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 cf0b67a9
REPLY: 1:229/622 33130378
On (25 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal...
DH> DH>> She thinks you're sick, too.
JS> Only because she doesn't know what is going on. I am sure you only
JS> present what you want her to know. (typical cult-like presentation
JS> and programming,
DH> She has HOLYSMOKE on her notebook. When there is absolutely nothing
DH> else to attract her attention she will read through the 1500 or so
DH> posts in the message base. She has never been interested in
DH> participating.
Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from time
to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the whole
thing and walks away. :)
JS> Have her write directly to me and she will know the
JS> truth, and not just your biased, anti-christian BS))
DH> Don't hold your breath, but I'll be sure she sees your invitation.
Great. It would be interesting.
DH> I'm not anti-xtian. I am anti-ignorance and anti-bullshit. When
DH> an organization espouses such things, like the KKK, PK, CRC, I
DH> tend to stereotype consenting members of such an organization.
I can understand such thinking. However, one should remember that and
organization still consists of individuals, and I believe individuals
are just that: individuals, and deserve to be judged on the merit of
their individual thinking.
BTW, what particular BS or ignorance of the CRC are you opposed to?
... For the son of man is lord even of the sabbath day. (Matt 12:8)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:24:17
EID:0ee0 225a5300
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 02bac986
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 f1ce762a
On (25 Feb 97) Marilyn Burge wrote to Jim Staal...
MB> On (23 Feb 97) Jim Staal babbled to Marilyn Burge...
JS> On (17 Feb 97) Marilyn Burge wrote to Sue Alexander...
MB> I saw a guest editorial written by a woman that had one of
MB> these abortions, and she said that her fetus was aborted just
MB> as Staal describes. The reason was that the fetus had a VERY
MB> large head as a result of some kind of birth defect, and
MB> bringing it through the birth canal prior to greatly reducing
MB> its head would have killed her.
JS> Hmmm...and yet the head _had_ to go through the birth canal to kill
JS> it. What was gained?
MB> After it had been GREATLY reduced in size, Jim. That's what
MB> sucking out the contents of something pliable does -- reduce
MB> its size.
OK. But the head is destroyed _after_ it has gone through the birth
canal in these procedures. That last 3 inches before reaching air is
beyond the birth canal.
MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
JS> Nope.
MB> Gimme numbers.
I have asked for those from proponents of the procedure myself.
MB> I want REAL numbers from the Department of
MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
One thing for sure, woman who gave testimony on this was not an
hysterical fundy.
... Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:27:36
EID:7d74 225a5360
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 816e5bc9
REPLY: 1:229/622 33130b3d
On (25 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Norman Solomon...
DH> DH>> This is 100% opposed to the tenets of Pauline Christianity.
NS> Where exactly?
DH> Christ's entire career was spent almost physically removing people
DH> from dogma. He used his parables to equip people with the means
DH> to make their own moral decisions without benefit of a reference
DH> manual. He considered even 10 commandments to be too demanding for
DH> bible thumpers to follow without reducing themselves to dogma.
DH> Paul took what he believed to be Christ's teachings and converted
DH> them back to dogma. Look at some of his proponents, Jim Staal for
DH> example. He can't think for himself. He MUST quote some scripture
DH> to make a point, and it is ALWAYS dogma that he quotes. Possibly
DH> he is afraid to take the risk of making his own decision, retreating
DH> to what he considers the safety of precedent set in Paul's tomes.
I have already made my own decision when I quote scripture. The
scripture I quote gives the reason for the given decision on my part.
BTW, could you please define 'dogma' for me and point out how Paul
converted Christ's teachings to dogma?
... Put on the whole armour of God... - Ephesians 6:11
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Bryson Hughes
|To: all
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:01:26
EID:9329 225a5020
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 33153275
-=> Quoting Clarence Hogan to Bryson Hughes <=-
BH> At that moment the Lord responded and let his face shine before me.
CH> He handed this old man the most beautiful two
CH> edged sword that you could ever imagine, but His Face was never seen,
There are a couple of scriptures which give meaning to the Lords face
appearing to me, and of the star in the pupil of his eye, and
concerning the Jews or Israel.
One is the Aaronic Blessing in Numbers 6:22-27..
"The Lords said to Moses," '"Tell Aaron and his sons, 'This is how you are
to bless the Israelites. Say to them:
The Lord bless you and keep you;
the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn his face toward you and be gracious unto you
and give you peace."'
So they will put my name of the Israelites, and I will bless them."
In this I see that in and through me, the Lord is blessing Israel, shining
upon Israel to reveal his face to Israel, being gracious and relenting upon
Israel and giving Israel peace.
Another passage that you may find interesting: Psalm 17:8-13 :
8"Keep me as the APPLE OF YOUR EYE; hide me in the shadow of your wings
from the wicked who assail me, from my mortal enemies who surround me.
9....
10....
11....
12....
13Rise up, O Lord, confront them, bring them down; rescue me from the
wicked by your SWORD."
-----------
Most of the time when the Lord appears to me, I don't see his face, but
instead I see his form.
I thought about asking you the meaning of the act of recieving the sword
of the Lord, but I've decided to take a guess and see how it compares
to what you have concluded:
I believe it means that you have recieved his word and it is now with
you. A weapon of war and conflict to be used for vanquishing. You
have a vanquishing word. It cuts the foe but is beautiful to those
who have or appreciate it. It is a rescue to David in his oppression.
CH> even though He was right by my side as we walked and don't ask what
CH> words were spoken for there were no words spoken and it ended as
CH> quickly as it started!
The Lord's brevity is disheartening to me at times. His visits are so
brief and fleeting, when I want him to stay for awhile. But I know he
is always present. But as a man, I relate to seeing him in his presense.
CH> He was also on a hill just above my reach, but
CH> could not make out His Face that time either, but to this day, it is
CH> felt that if my hand had ever reached Him, it would truly have
CH> resulted in my translation!
Meeting the Lord on the hill...Did you reach for him?
What meaning do you get out of that?
CH> :) We must talk some more on this
CH> subject! BTW, have you also heard the Angels sing?
Although I am always in the company of angels, I cannot recall hearing
them sing. But I have heard one roar like a gloating lion, though the
angel was like an appearing star. To say I didn't like that angel is
an understatement. Another time, I heard a trumpet with the ears of my
spirit, sound a jolting and rapid cadence. It sounded real good. I liked
it alot. Aha! To say what other form of music I heard would sound to
shaky. I don't know for sure. I can say it was mind bending.
BH> Then I decided to make that my ministry a Messianic ministry, so that
BH> I would please him.
CH> You have decided well and so long as you allow Him to lead you, you
CH> will never do anything but please Him, see?
Peace has come upon me in the past day or so: It is from God and it says
to
my heart, "This is the way, walk in it".
CH> Moses was definitely a chosen vessel, and yes, the feeling is known,
CH> for when any people suffer, their suffering is felt in my heart also!
I find a command in binding up the wounds of Israel.
CH> You truly have the correct spirit, for the sufferings of the strong
CH> are for the benefit of helping the weak, which, sad to say, few there
CH> be that understand this teaching of His Word, right?
I should be strong, for the keeness of my mind, the strength of my arms,
the depth of my revelation, the abundance of love given to me:
But God sees fit to humiliate me, and I am humiliated. Yet he has delivered
me in all times past; I know him as a deliverer, and trust him to
raise up my head.
-------------------
BH> Israel. And I declare to you by the Spirit of God who instructs me,
BH> that the time of the reconciliation of the nation is at hand!
CH> Double agreed! :) And would you now venture a guess that it will be
CH> within the next 10 to 15 years? :)
BH> It has already began:
CH> Well, yes and no, for yes it has started but no the final seven years
CH> have not as yet started, right?
What I do understand is that a nation has returned to life from the
dead of nations. And in the birthpains of Rachel a nation is born.
The age of gentiles is finished and Israel's redemption is upon us.
He who reaches out his hand the second time to redeem his people,
is reaching right now and redeeming. He has arisen from his throne
in the cloud and stands.
BH> I realized that some intelligent unsee thing had overseen us, and
BH> expressed the idea of a KEY in response to my words of reconciliation.
BH> Do you see what the vision means concerning this time for the Jewish
BH> people?
CH> Are you referring to the KEY of David?
In a sense yes. The key is the for the anministrators of the kings
palace to watch over his treasures. It is for the priest who have
the charge of the goods in the house of the Lord. Read Matt. 24:44-47
In a sense, God has reveal to me that I have a commission unto his
treasure, His people. Isaiah 22:22
He has opened it and shown it to me, the reconciliation.
-----------------------------
CH> Our spirits certainly seem to agree so far! :)
BH> If I knew where there were outcast prophets huddled in a cave, I would
BH> go to them just to have somebody who understood my spirit.
CH> And this old man would gladly join you and them! :)
I trust that you would indeed.
BH> Shalom Aleichem..
CH> And Shalom to you, my brother! BTW, you stumped this old man with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
CH> Aleichem, couldn't find it! :(
It means "Peace to you". You even translated above.
... PROPHET BRYSON and The ANGELS -***- WORLD * TOUR -***- 1997
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:12:00
EID:eec2 225a8180
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> Roger, "0.5" is _obviously_ not "0.0." You are not "zero years old"
JB> at six months, you are "zero _complete_ years old."
Same difference. You have lived zero complete years plus 6 months.
RH> When your first birthday arrives, you are 1 year old because
RH> one year has passed; the zero year.
JB> But you have to _switch_labels_ to do that!
Yes, and you switch labels anyway; you are 6 months old, 7 months old,
etc. and suddenly you are 1 YEAR old.
JB> Before Jan.1st of the "year one," you call that year the "year zero,"
JB> but _after_ Jan.1st, you call it the "year one!" So which is it
JB> "really"??? Year one, or year zero? I don't see any sense in
JB> _switching_labels_ just because you finally crawled _out_ of the time-
JB> period in question.....
That's the way it works. Don't confuse "first" with "one".
The "first" year is the 0 year.
RH> Give it up John, you are wrong.
JB> Nah.
JB> I may have to recant, since there's an excellent argument against me,
JB> but I'll see if you can find first.
Curry already pointed it out.What is 6 - 6?
JB> (What did you think of my double-line combo,
JB> ^
JB> [blocks] and numbers? )
You left out the zero block and it won't work without it.
... We must believe in free will - we have no choice.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:18:00
EID:7211 225a8240
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> Given that self-interconnectedness appears to be a requirement for the
JB> only form of intelligence and self-awareness that we _know_ exists
JB> (human brains with "personalities" somehow riding in them), then the
JB> following reasoning is not necessarily invalid:
Given that we don't know how it works, ANYthing is not necessarily
invalid. Useless as an argument.
JB> If self-interconnectedness is a requirement for the Universe to be
JB> intelligent-as-a-whole and self-aware, and if _lack_ of self-
JB> interconnectedness refutes the idea that the Universe is intelligent
JB> and self-aware, what evidence do we have regarding the self-
JB> interconnectedness of the Universe?
None, because nonlocality cannot be used to transmit information.
JB> IOW, how far off zero (the null hypothesis) can we move, if at all,
JB> and in which direction, IF science has accurate information about the
JB> Universe's self-interconnectedness?
JB> And, _DOES_ science have this self-interconnectedness information, or
JB> does it not?
JB> You and I both know some of the answer to _that_ question....
We do; it's NO! The keyword is "information", without which we
can have no awareness.
JB> Some of us prefer to move off the null with _no_ information, in
JB> either direction --Theists and AntiTheists, and some of us prefer to
JB> stay tight-stuck to the null --atheists and agnostics, and some of
us
JB> prefer to move only very slightly off the null. Does the information
JB> exist, or not exist, to justify _any_ of those movements?
JB> Again, you and I both know that it does.
Wrong.
JB> IOW, we are _not_ stuck exactly and purely on the null hypothesis, IF
JB> we are honest and take quantum mechanics and nonlocality seriously.
JB> (Hmmm.... that's one of my better attempts.... (*grin*))
Nice try alright, but no cigar.
... Even if you understood women - you'd never believe it!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:22:00
EID:eec2 225a82c0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Wrong. You are a decimal fraction of a year old, thus you are
RH> 0 whole years old.
JB> Like I said, I think we've been exploring the difference between two
JB> fundamentally incompatible systems, the discrete and the continuous.
Nope; blocks need zero too. Show me 6 - 6 without a zero block.
[-2] [-1] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
^ 6 5 4 3 2 1
Is it really -1 John?
... A beautiful theory, killed by a nasty, ugly, little fact.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:38:00
EID:d5cf 225a84c0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Richard Smith <=-
JB> 6 - 6 = 0
JB> (We'll have to do this in stages. "You," the 'counter', are the "*".)
JB> Start ON six: *
JB> [-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6]
JB> Take away the first one:
JB> [-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5] *
JB> 1
JB> Take away 2, 3, 4, and 5:
JB> [-2][-1][+1]
JB> 5 4 3 2 1
JB> Take away the sixth and last one:
JB> [-2][-1] *
JB> 6 5 4 3 2 1
JB> Now, are you standing ON the [-1] block? No.....
JB> So what are you standing ON? (Nothing. "Zero.")
JB> (*cackle!*))
JB> Have a happy! Think I'll copy that to Dan.
Oh nonsense, John. What is 6 - 1, your way?
Why, zero! That's what you are standing on, right?
The answer is the block you are standing on. You MUST
stand on a block.
What is 6 - 0? It's _6_, the block you are _still_
standing on.
... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: 10 FOOT HIGH AND RISI
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:46:00
EID:a97c 225a85c0
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Becke Boyer <=-
DR> Where does the water from _any_ flood go? If the polar ice caps
DR> were melted, would that not lead to a global deluge? I am not saying
No. Sea level would rise about 200 feet, not nearly enough to cause
a global deluge.
The point is that water from a global flood has no place left TO go.
The oceans are already full and there are no underground caverns
large enough to hold it.
And yes, I -DO- know that for sure. I'm a seismologist, and water
filled caverns would be noticable on seismograms.
... (hic) BWave 2.10 (hic) BWave 2.10 * My computer is drunk ...
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: BIBLE QUOTES
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:59:00
EID:0cc5 225a8760
-=> Quoting Bryson Hughes to Dan Ceppa <=-
BH> I call my teachings, Messianic Judaism, based upon the fact that Jesus
BH> did NOT intend to start a new religion, but rather to teach salvation
BH> in the context of Judaism, and that he is the King of the Jews.
HEY GUYS! A new kind of fundy. Sharpen some new sticks in his honor.
So tell me, Bryson, do you follow the Levitical laws? Does Harvey
Smith over on Cult Watch know you are using his cult name?
... Mary had a little RAM -- only about a MEG or so.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: EDUCATIONAL EXPERIEN
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:25:00
EID:7241 225a8b20
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Christopher Hughes <=-
CH> It'll be hyphenated. Christopher and Rod Hughes-Swift.
While I understand your reasoning, it gets complicated real quick
if it continues for awhile. Then we have Bill Smith-Jones and
George Williams-Anderson, resulting in Bill and George
Smith-Jones-Williams-Anderson and if they adopt kids, pretty soon
we have Tom Smith-Jones-Williams-Anderson-Carson-Andrews-Thompson-Carr.
... Aw, come on! I would NEVER go that far!!! Well, maybe...
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: EVIDENCES FOR GOD
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:30:00
EID:3fbc 225a8bc0
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Darryl Gonzalez <=-
DR> What is this ==> [sic] ? I have asked others to no avail.
It is used when quoting someone, to indicate an error in the
original material. For example, "David is a fooking [sic] idiot"
Who says atheist do no good?
... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: INFINITESIMALS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 17:48:00
EID:26aa 225a8e00
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Robert Curry <=-
JB> Often, I've seen the argument that two dimensionless 'particles' could
JB> not yield any dimension, any 'size,' any component of a putative
JB> metric.
JB> (The simplistic argument usually goes: "if one is dimensionless, and
JB> the other is dimensionless, then sitting them 'side by side' you still
JB> get 'dimensionless'.")
JB> Yet, it seems to me that no matter how small, even actually
JB> dimensionless and treated as pure locations only, two of them must
JB> create dimension, and I can't find any currently extant reference or
JB> reason why they would not.
The main reason is that a point is a location, not an object. As
such, it has to have a background space to be "in". So your whole
concept is backward. And that means you can have as many as you want,
because the background comes first.
JB> 1) One such point is by definition dimensionless, has no 'size.'
JB> 2) Two such pionts, coalesced or superimposed (congruent), could
JB> have no 'size' either.
JB> 3) Two such points, _forbidden_ coalescence, must cause 'size'
JB> in some way, even if that size is ambiguous and nonquantifiable
JB> in terms of existing measurement systems.
You can't have separation without defining a metric -first-.
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: JOHN-BOY'S LAST CHANC
|Date: 26 Feb 97 18:03:00
EID:6701 225a9060
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes <=-
JB> Give me the 'formal math language' direct and unambiguous equivalent
JB> for
JB> "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB> point." Else, grant that it doesn't exist.
It doesn't exist in standard math.
In T-Verse, it's called dmin (thanks to me).
JB> And now return to the question itself: I have not had an issue with
JB> what two points would BE if they _did_ coalesce; its' obvious they
JB> would cease to be two. I need what the 'thing' is that is _between_
JB> them if the are forced together --with a sort of conceptually
JB> near-infinite 'force'-- but do NOT coalesce.
JB> You so far seem to be saying one of the following:
JB> a) the question is meaningless,
JB> b) the question is answerless (the language does not exist
JB> in which to formulate the answer),
JB> c) you are an idiot (John doesn't understand his own concept),
JB> d) I am an idiot (Mark doesn't understand John's concept).
You left out e) the answer is undefined.
That's probably the correct one until you measure dmin. Or you could
say it's the same size as an electron....which also has no size.
JB> Fine. The question, phrased as it was, has no mathematical answer.
JB> Does it have a topological answer? I can't find that one, either,
No. In topology, points cannot coalesce because it messes up the mapping.
There is no "minimum distance" defined and it is not any metaphysical
thing either. It's just a rule to keep you from screwing up.
... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:31:34
EID:7582 225b73e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 127267a9
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 33145079
On (26 Feb 97) Joe Seatter wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Quoting Jim Staal to DAVID RICE
JS> Two things here: a. I do not have 'gods'. Just God[sic].
DR> Oh my god! And here I thought you were a Christian (i.e.
DR> you believed in the Yahweh, Jesus, Satan, and Holy Spook
DR> gods).
DR> Er, what god =DO= you have?
JS> One God, three distinct persons.
JS> you worship a god with multiple personality disorder?
No.
... If any man love God, the same is known of him. (1 Cor 8:3)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:32:04
EID:9766 225b7400
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c215e03a
On (25 Feb 97) Roger Hunter wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Roger Hunter <=-
JS> clear on the subject. A deed is judged 'good' not merely by content,
JS> but rather, by motivation.
RH> Oh, good. So I can kill you so you can get to Heaven quicker and
RH> that will be judged "good".
JS> Hardly. Whatever your motivation might be, murder is not a good deed.
RH> But you said it would be judged good based on motivation, above.
RH> Were you lying?
No. I included content. (see above)
JS> As I have broken my leg on the ice on Valentines Day, I could use all
JS> the $$$ help I can get. A high energy music ministry cannot be
JS> effected from a wheel chair or crutches.
RH> Why not? You sing with your legs, maybe?
No, but I am rather active on stage.
... Put on the whole armour of God... - Ephesians 6:11
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:32:57
EID:59fe 225b7400
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 1ce1e229
REPLY: 1:170/551.0 160b0340
On (26 Feb 97) Karl Schneider wrote to Jim Staal...
KS> JS>more than a million. I am going. I have already signed up for it.
KS> This JS>is not just a racial or political thing. we're talking about
KS> achristians
KS> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ JS>here. :)
KS> ??
Bad hand typo.
... Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt. - Col. 4:6
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: raising children for hell
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:33:28
EID:075a 225b7420
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 3e9ba07a
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3cb
On (25 Feb 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
RC> with: Lynda Bustilloz
LB> And what happens if mom and dad lose their "faith status"
LB> before the kid hits the age of accountability (whenever
LB> that is) - is the kids salvation then revoked?
RC> JS>> There is no such thing as 'lose their faith status'.
RC> So "salvation" is automatically inherited and can never be lost?
JS> No. Salvation is determined by God and can never be lost.
RC> You were just telling Lynda that babies who die go to hell if their
RC> parents are not "saved," but go to heaven if one of their parents
RC> is "saved."
RC> It sure looks like an inherited "salvation."
It isn't. It is, however, the method God chose to indicate to parents
the salvation status of their babies.
... And they went out, and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:34:58
EID:d514 225b7440
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 34d267fa
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3cc
On (25 Feb 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
RC> with: Dave Hamilton
RC> JS>>> I believe the Bible teaches that the salvation status
RC> JS>>> of the infant is determined by the faith status of the
RC> JS>>> parent(s).
RC> DH>> Hahahahaha! What utter, disgusting crap. Keep it up, Jim.
RC> JS>> What do you find disgusting?
RC> It seems rather obvious that he finds your belief disgusting,
RC> don't you think?
JS> i was hoping for something a bit more specific...but I guess
JS> that is too much to ask...
RC> The specific belief quoted above, silly.
Yeah, but what part of it?
... Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. (Eph 5:10)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:35:18
EID:c4f2 225b7460
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 88d52542
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Jim Staal <=-
JB> @MSGID: 1:229/622.0 33148b87
-=> Jim Staal said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
LB> I want the URL, Jim. I'm almost guaranteeing it was a pro-life site.
JS> Trust me, it wasn't. It was in a place I had no business being...
JB>
JB> So that's why you won't give her the URL or at least a site to start?
I have no idea where it was, as I was just wandering through the net one
day.
JB> Read the fucking law, Jim. Abortion on request is ONLY allowed during
JB> the first 3 months of pregnancy. It is permitted during the second 3
JB> months under certain conditions. Abortion during the last 3 months of
JB> pregnancy is NOT allowed under any circumstances EXCEPT to save the
JB> life of the mother.
yeah...you read it. then _you_ listen to Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the
Coalition of Abortion Practitioners confess that there have been
3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a year involving healthy
mothers and healthy fetuses.
Anybody else care to further discuss this topic in light of the late
breaking news?
... *Origin: Jim Staal Ministries - (616) 532-1084 - No Nodes-had removed
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:44:06
EID:868d 2257a580
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103b96
* On 17-02-97 at 19:15, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> KY> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
DC> DC> KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
DC> DC> Just who was that youth running out of the garden of Gethsemane?
DC> RS> Just for my reference later, scriptural reference?
DC> Let's see if this file has what you are looking for:
Ah, it's the later chapters of John, and the "disciple Jesus
loved".
I find it strange that if Jesus loves everyone that this
"disciple" would get special mention not once, but a few times :)
DC> From the commentary of the
DC> NIV Study Bible, Zondervan Bible Publishers, 1985, p. 1591: "The author
DC> [of the Gospel according to John] is the apostle John, "the disciple
DC> whom Jesus loved" (13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7,20,24).
This would be the filthy and perverse sections, yes :)
Thanks :)
Rod "...It gives a whole new meaning to God being a god of "love"
doesn't it?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Heat [1/2]
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:45:08
EID:067b 2257a5a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103bd4
* On 17-02-97 at 12:46, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Heat [1/2]" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> RS>Assumption invalid. You have not proven that the laws of
DR> RS>physics, nor time, did *NOT* exist prior to the big bang. If you
DR> RS>cannot prove such things by evidence and methodology, then your
DR> RS>hypothesis fails.
DR> I find it most interesting that atheists say things like this then
turn
DR> around and declare that Christians are being obtuse for believing in
God and
DR> that God does not exist.
I fail to see your whine. I asked the person to show evidence
that the laws of physics were *created* by the Big Bang, as
opposed to them existing prior to the Big Bang.
It was their assertion. I only asked for evidence.
Rod "...so shove it up your ass, you whiney cretin. P.S. Jesus
loves you, everyone else thinks you're an asshole :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:47:10
EID:3a0f 2257a5e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103c4e
* On 12-02-97 at 12:35, JAN DEBOER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "God exacts justice!!!" in echo Holysmoke:
JD> On 09 Feb 97 01:38:26 Rod Swift wrote to All...
JD> RS> MELBOURNE, Jan 27 (Reuter) - Lightning killed an Australian
JD> RS> couple on Monday as their two young sons looked on during a
JD> RS> picnic in the southern city of Geelong, police said.
JD> Rod, you are just not looking at this from the correct christian
JD> perspective.
Of course not :)
JD> I'm sure Al Schroeder can tell you that the parents were 'saved'.
Of course they were. :) :)
JD> And christians everywhere will be cluck-clucking that it's only through
JD> the miraculous intervention of god that the two young sons weren't
JD> killed as well!
Praise Jesus :) :)
JD> So, you see, god saved everyone.
JD> Praise Jeezus!
Yeah, right, :) :)
Rod "...we call it wishful thinking. They call it proof of a divine
force. Go fig!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Schroedinger may have been here
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Heat [1/2] A
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:50:12
EID:71de 2257a640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103d04
* On 17-02-97 at 00:44, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Heat [1/2] A" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> AM> Who's us Rod? Do you have a fan club?
RS> RichS> He certainly does, as well as colleagues, etc.,
RS> RichS> here . . . why, are you writing a book?
RS> RodS> :) :) You are precognitive :)
RS> Don't let my wife know. So far, she just thinks I've been
RS> lucky in avoiding the lawnwork . . .
Oooh. Ok. *shhh* :)
RS> RodS> I didn't even answer the fact that I actually have a
RS> RodS> real life fan club from my work in radio :)
RS> LOL . . . when in doubt, barrage them with facts . . .
:) :) But of course. That Marsden village idiot was waiting for
it. :) :) *thwack!*
RS> am> I have been posting on this board for over a year and
RS> am> have on several occasions provided a summary as well as
RS> am> evidentiary points. However I would be happy to
RS> am> reiterate if, in rebuttal, you would be willing to
RS> am> summarize and provide evidentiary points for your
RS> am> conclusion that mechanistic forces alone can account for
RS> am> the appearence of the universe and the arrival of man..
RS> RichS> You are aware that the two are not necessarily
RS> RichS> synonymous, aren't you? What about what else he asked
RS> RichS> for: evidence, AND a summary of the theory behind it?
RS> RodS> Yes, of course, he tried to detract from the point...
RS> It's a sad thing that he didn't have or put more artfullness
RS> into the attempt. It was too blatant.
Too blatant indeed!
RS> am> 1. Scientists think the universe started from a
RS> am> explosion of a singularity in an event known as the big
RS> am> bang. At the moment of this big bang time and the laws
RS> am> of physics came into existence.
RS> RichS> The then term `moment' is inaccurate, isn't it?
RS> RodS> Of course. When talking about the non-existence of
RS> RodS> time, we must always use terms rooted in temporality :)
RS> LOL . . .
"This is not the time to talk about time. We don't have time
time"...
-- Lt Cmdr Deanna Troi (drunk), Star Trek: First Contact.
RS> am> 2. There are at least 25 known constants in the universe
RS> am> necessary for life as we know it
RS> RichS> There's the operative wording: AS WE KNOW IT. BTW,
RS> RichS> where did you originally get this list . . . I'd like
RS> RichS> to go and do some supplimental reading by the author
RS> RichS> of it.
RS> RodS> As with all creationist claptrap, it's probably
RS> RodS> unsourced, or misleading :)
RS> And, oddly enough, delightful Andrew is no longer responding
RS> to me. I wonder why . . .
Oh, is it because we destroyed his pathetic little belief system?
Another fundie bit the dust!
Rod "...Bwhahahahaha!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:53:14
EID:fa62 2257a6a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103dba
* On 17-02-97 at 00:50, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> ky> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle,
RS> ky> that was never meant to be.
RS> RichS> Nice homophobe reaction . . .
RS> ky> Wondered how long before we got to this one..
RS> RichS> I take it that you have evidence that it is an
RS> RichS> unnatural lifestyle, Ken. You DO, don't you?
RS> RodS> Because his bible says so. Isn't it obvious that,
RS> RodS> in itself, is *evidence*??? haahahah
RS> Only of moronity.
Well, that's still evidence :)
RS> RichS> ... I don't hate homosexuals. I don't even know any
RS> RichS> homosexuals. - J.Helms.
RS> RodS> Did you know one of his staffer's sons was gay, and
RS> RodS> he sent her a nice message about how he deserves to
RS> RodS> die and burn in hell.
RS> No, I didn't hear about this. What a lovely guy!
Yes, a darling. You can find the letters on the web :) I'll
repost them by request if you wish.
RS> RodS> She started a group of mothers who were working
RS> RodS> against getting Jesse thrown out of the Senate in
RS> RodS> 1996.
RS> Hmmm . . . `started a group' . . . `working AGAINST getting
RS> thrown out' . . . ???
RS> I know what you mean.
Sorry, I was in the middle of a reply to Laurie before this one
:) They were working to throw him out, or working against him
getting reelected.
RS> RodS> It failed.... They've not given up.
RS> Good that they haven't. He deserves to get his ass tossed
RS> out, IMNSHO . . .
If he follows Robert Dornan out of office, all we need to get rid
of is Stockman, Istook, Byrd, and a few of the other mofos and
we'll have a "kindler, gentler" congress :)
Rod "...hahahah" :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 23 Feb 97 20:53:16
EID:093a 2257a6a0
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33103dbc
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
* On 06-02-97 at 18:19, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> So you support domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So the Oklahoma Bombing was not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Do you know the meaning of the words "domestic Christian
JS> RS> terrorism"? Here's a pointer. Domestic means "carried out
JS> RS> inside the US-borders by people who reside in the US". Christian
JS> RS> means "people who claim to ascribe to the Christian faith and/or
JS> RS> pronounce that they have performed an act for the Christian faith
JS> RS> or deity-construct". Terrorism can be defined as "an act of
JS> RS> terrorising or systematic use of violence and intimidation to
JS> RS> achieve some goal or political change by means of terror".
JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
in Jesu.., uh, err, um... in Darwin, who did the bomb...ummm...
geological dynamism to make everyone feel comfortable and safe,
and all kindler and gentler.
There. All the basis of fact, as you percieve. :)
JS> JS> RS> Hill isn't yet... Such a shame. Do you support domestic
JS> JS> RS> Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So abortion clinic murders is not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Were John Salvi and Paul Hill "US residents, targetting US-based
JS> RS> targets, acting to cause terror, in the name of their religion?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. (I'm getting used to it, though)
Wahhh. The question's too hard to answer! I'm going to claim it
is absurd.
I put it to everyone else the question is 100% on the mark, and
you not answering it shows absurdity -- the absurdity of the
Christian faith.
JS> RS> Convert or Kill, it's not only Christianity's guiding principle,
JS> RS> but it's also CHRISTIAN LAW of the BIBLE!
JS> JS> Show me where Christ commanded this?
JS> RS> Christ commanding it <> It being God's word.
JS> RS> You find it in your bible, you bible parrot! :)
JS> You made the statement. You provide the evidence from scripture where
JS> Christ said to do such things.
No. You do it. Why should I have to do all the work for someone
who claims to know the bible. :) Anyway, your request is
'absurd' *sneer*.
JS> JS> Screw commies, treehuggers, bleeding heart
JS> JS> liberal, feminazis and send
JS> JS> the illegals back where they came from.
JS> JS> RS> Ah. So you believe in the principle of governmental-mandated
JS> JS> RS> inequality and division among US citizens?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> You were the one who proposed governmental screwing of "commies,
JS> RS> treehuggers, bleeding-heart liberal, feminazis" and "illegals".
JS> Show me where I said that.
You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
Rod "...then again, you probably don't read them before posting,
so why bother after?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Zarathustra's concubine
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:21:18
EID:6f14 2257aaa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3310444e
* On 18-02-97 at 08:59, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Zarathustra's concubine" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> I will continue to work with you for a time and pray that you cease
with
DR> useless barbs and move on to more productive discourse. Take a look
at Rod
DR> Swift's posts. He does, at least, maintain some modicum of civility.
Fuck you! I do not fucking give asswipe cretins like you the
time of day normally... So *fuck you*, fuckwit fucker fuck!
DR> Therefore, he is actually okay to talk to in spite of his opposed canons.
Ah, fuck you. I don't have to be subjected to your
holier-than-thou judgement, asswipe. Fuck you! :) :)
DR> JD>The fundy parrot sqwuaks the dogma his mental masters have implanated
in
DR> JD> his unicellular brain.........
DR> Mighty cold up there in Canada this time of year eh, Jan?
Couldn't you refute what she said? Is it true? Are you a bible
parrot(tm)? Are you only trained to recite, rather than think?
You pathetic waste of human life. Someone should have aborted
you and given one of the aborted foetuses a chance at being
grateful for their life, rather than you, you ingrateful shit! :) :)
DR> Never would I wish any harm to befall you yet, your tone is indicative
DR> of your hatred of me and all that I stand for. And why is this?
Because you are a *dick*head*. Should I SPELL it out for you?
D-I-C-K-H-E-A-D!
Got it? Good, you shit-for-brains moronic loser. :) I love you!
DR> It has been my experience that people "hate" as a result of some
DR> sort of personal reason even though that reason may be somewhat
DR> questionable if not entirely ridiculous.
Hating you becuase you won't keep your saviour to yourself and
get out of our collective faces is a *valid* and *justifiable*
reason. Hating you because you have wasted your life by becoming
an automaton to a book is legitimate.
DR> So, I ask you, [southern fundy voice on] "What fer is that thar
DR> bee in yer bonnet, Girly?" [southern fundy voice off] Jan, unfounded
ire
DR> only hurts the one that has it.
The ire is not unfounded, fundy moron. Stop and *think* for a
change. The only use your bible is going to be when you die is
the fact we'll have something to remove from your hand and laugh
at while you slowly begin to show signs of rigor mortis.
I pity you, moron -- you're living a lie, and you're deluded and
believe the lie because you are too afraid to face the truth!
DR> I am not the religious automaton that would paint me to be. My
DR> relationship with God is very personal.
Since your God and bible is with you everywhere, I'm sure that he
shares your jerk off experiences -- especially the biggest
jerk off of them all on Sunday morning at church.
DR> Everything about us seems secondhand, even our emotions. In many
DR> cases we have to rely on secondhand information in order to function.
Secondhand? No. We call this *expert* opinion, not secondhand
information.
DR> I accept the word of a physician, a scientist, a farmer, on trust.
I accept it on expertise, greater knowledge, and training.
DR> I do not "always" like to do this. I have to at times because, they
DR> possess vital knowledge of which I am uninformed.
The abovementioned also deal in fact.
Of course, since your God is neither one who deals in fact, nor
is his existence tenable, we don't have to worry about myth.
DR> Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket! I will just continue to come in
DR> here and subject myself to these pernicious invectives and _that_
DR> will stimulate synaptic activity, and neural generation.
You just come here because you need to jerk off, and since it's
not Sunday, you can't go to church and participate in the mental
circle-jerk, eh?
DR> Afterall, conversation with you is so rewarding, Jan. I mean, you
DR> _never_ waste your time with vain effrontery, do you? ;)
BTW, if you were wondering why I replied to this message and
ripped you a new asshole, it is because the Bible clearly states
"judge not, lest you be judged".
You judged Jan. I judged you. Deal with it, moron, you just got
ripped a new asshole. Hope you like it.
DR> Proverbs:
Here's some for you, jerk. To start, a reminder of "your work"
in the "service of the Lord"...
Proverbs 6:16-19 -- There are seven things that the Lord hates
and cannot tolerate:
* A proud look (That's you, Ragland)
* A lying tongue (Look, you again! :))
* Hands that kill innocent people
* A mind that thinks up wicked things (You again!)
* Feet that hurry off to do evil (You, yet again!)
* A witness who tells one lie
after another (And you again!)
* And a man who stirs up trouble
among friends (You, a sixth thing!)
And now some of Solomon's Proverbs for you to remember...
10:13 (My reply to you) -- Intelligent people talk sense, but
stupid people need to be punished. (Consider yourself punished,
moron).
11:2 (About your holier-than-thou attitude) -- People who war
proud will soon be disgraced. It is wiser to be modest.
11:12 (Your attacks on Jan) -- It is foolish to speak scornfully
of others. If you are smart, you will keep quiet. (Your book
even says you are a moron :) hahaha)
12:8 (Why we all scorn you) -- If you are intelligent, you will
be praised; if you are stupid, people will look down on you.
12:23 (And for just being you) -- Smart people keep quiet about
what they know, but stupid people advertise their ignorance.
I suggest you leave, David. Heed Proverbs 13:13 -- "If you
refuse good advice, you are asking for trouble; follow it and
you are safe".
If you stay, you will get only trouble. Leave. Now!
Rod "...P.S. I love you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Etiquette Lesson
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:31:20
EID:4fc7 2257abe0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331046a8
* On 15-02-97 at 21:25, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Etiquette Lesson" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> JD>Your first mistake - never get your meat where you get your
DR> JD>bread, goes the saying.
DR> As cute as little saying is, it holds no truth unless you are referring
to
DR> casual, meaningless relationships, Jan.
I recently remembered something my good Friend and TV Talk Show
Host Dick Dietrich said. I'll ask it of you:
"Have you ever had a homosexual experience"?
Your answers can be:
a) Yes, and I enjoyed it. The pastor was very kind to
me and he promised it wouldn't hurt.
b) Yes, but I didn't inhale.
c) No, I'm a Reformed Onanist.
d) No, I only get off on lesbian S&M videos.
e) Yes, _______________________________________________
______________(insert reason here)_____________
_______________________________________________
DR> JD>You mean they didn't have your sexual hangups and guilt
DR> JD>complex induced by your mental masters at "cornerstoned
DR> JD>ministries".
DR> One does not have to have sexual hangups to respect decency. There
is a
DR> time and place for everything, Jan.
Please tell me the time and place for your "homosexual experience"
so I can arrange it for you. Would you like a big burly biker
man in leather? Or some ditzy disco queen? I can arrange either
for you.
DR> While human sexuality is a glorious gift to us.
It's so nice to see that you agree that sexual orientation is a
gift from God.
I consider it a product of genetics.
DR> More oft' than not it is so corrupted through trivialization.
I'll remember to ask the biker guy to not trivialise your
"homosexual experience" when you have it. Just humiliate you a
bit... :) :)
DR> I find that most people who trivialize sex, erroneously
DR> confuse their priorities. That is to say, "They swallow camels while
DR> straining at gnats!"
I'm sorry, I can't arrange for you to fellate a camel. That's
just out of my league of contacts.
DR> There are actually gay prostitution establishments in San
DR> Francisco where a gay man can go to insert his genitalia
DR> through a hole in a dividing partition to have sex.
DR> Upon doing so he can then have sex performed on him without
DR> having to ever see the person he is having sex with.
Ah... So this is your secret desire. You've obviously done a lot
of research into glory holes.
BTW, anonymous sex occurs heterosexually too.
DR> I have met very few people, well "men" anyway, in my life that feel
the
DR> way I do.
So you *do* have the feeling that you are "different" to other
men? You feel gay? How intriguing that you suppress your sexual
orientation the way you do.
DR> My answer to all these questions is, of course, "Yes".
I'll start making the arrangements for you to meet Master Biker
Steve then :) :) I'm sorry I can't provide the camel.
Rod "...BTW, he won't leave that many marks... At least some
will go away after a few days. Some may linger, just to give you
a reminder of what he expects from one of his 'slaveboys'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheism: A non-prophet organisation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Gay bashing(I love it!)
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:33:22
EID:c6eb 2257ac20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33104722
* On 17-02-97 at 00:12, ROBERT CURRY wrote to NICK RAVENWOOD,
on the topic of "Gay bashing(I love it!)" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> NR> So tell me Mr. "tasteful" Faggot, do you suck dicks
RC> Don't you have better places to go looking for dates, Ravingwood?
No, apparently not. Maybe he should get the address off David
Ragland for that glory hole in San Francisco that David likes to
talk about :)
RC> NR> If I had my way all fags would perish,
RC> Feeling suicidal again? You poor boy. There has got to be some
RC> better way for you to come to terms with your sexuality. Really, now.
:) :) He needs help.
RC> NR> Aids is a wonderful disease for killing homosexuals,
RC> The latest issue of the newsletter I edit includes a front page story
RC> about a retired doctor who helped to form a group here in Pinellas
RC> county to assist women and children who suffer from AIDS. This Saturday
RC> he will be addressing the Humanists of the Suncoast in Clearwater.
And what a great public service he is doing to help *all* people
come to terms with the fact AIDS does not discriminate -- people do.
RC> Anyone can be infected with the HIV virus -- your sexual orientation
RC> doesn't matter. The virus doesn't care.
AIDS does not discriminate. People do.
Rod "...you got it in one, Robert. 1000000% in agreement. BTW,
I like how Nickypoos is just so 'repressed' :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:34:24
EID:3fc0 2257ac40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33104760
* On 18-02-97 at 23:38, DAN CEPPA wrote to MARK O'NEILL,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 P" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> Oh, well, what a bitch that will be. We will all get to heaven,
DC> RS> and find there is no drinking water.
DC> MO> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub
there.
DC> MO> ;-)
DC> If there ain't we'll open one, charging a hefty fee at the door
DC> for the xians that are trying to sneak in for a cold one.
ROFL! :) :) Reminds me of that Rowan Atkinson skit where he's
Satan processing a new batch of arrivals in Hell...
"Now, how many of you here are Christians..."
Rod "... yes, the Jews *were* right :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just do something!!! Stand there!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:35:26
EID:7663 2257ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3310479e
* On 19-02-97 at 01:33, DAN CEPPA wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 15 Feb 97 04:28:24, Richard Smith got back to Rod Swift
DC> RS> I think Jimson wants a date.
DC> rods> Given you have 10% of a brain
DC> JS> It would be interesting to see you provide physical
DC> JS> evidence for this claim.
DC> RS>
DC> RS> Yeah, I would too. Care to rip out his brain and show it to
DC> RS> us, Rod?
DC> Do you really think that Rod has access to an electron
DC> microsope and has a chance of finding anything in there?
DC> 10:1, if he does, he finds absolutely nothing.
I did try to tell Jim that his synapse would require me to get a
new microscope. :) :)
Rod "...preferably one that could be used to identify the lone
cell, so we could eradicate it" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: A "Swiftie"!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:36:28
EID:0d0d 2257ac80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331047dc
* On 16-02-97 at 06:09, JOHN MUSSELWHITE wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
on the topic of "A "Swiftie"!" in echo Holysmoke:
JM> LA> Thanks for letting me know. Some evolutionists seem to go
JM> LA> to almost any lengths to mislead and deceive as they
JM> LA> desperately try to take as many as they can to Hell with
JM> LA> them!
JM> THIS from someone (you) who continually bears false witness
JM> against his neighbours? You'll be seeing us all there, Laurie.
JM> God hates liars, don't you know.
He's just jealous that I introduced "Laurie Appleton" to IRC as a
gay male in a committed relationship. It was only Steingrobe and
Staal that I introduced "Laurie" to.
And 2-out-of-2 suckers were born :) :)
Rod "...that's one for each minute! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:43:30
EID:bc89 2257ad60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33104982
* On 18-02-97 at 18:39, RICHARD SMITH wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cook" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> That can be obtained. The evidence that I have seen
RS> js> suggests that in West Michigan, the education receive
RS> js> in our schools consistantly surpasses that of the local
RS> js> public schools.
RS> FR> Yeah. Just look how this Staal woman-hating
RS> FR> homophobic bigot turned out.
RS> A role model for pea brains everywhere . . .
That's it.
I, being gay, am part of the glitterati.
Jim, being a moron, is part of the illiterati
You, being zanily fun, are part of the Illuminati.
Fred, being a perfectionist, is probably a Lemati! :)
[Ok, the last is a really poor Babylon 5 in-joke] :)
RS> FR> Only the fundy brands of "schools" really
RS> FR> warp and twist their dogma to the point where it's
RS> FR> undeniably child abuse.
RS> I'd probably side with you on that.
It's pretty hard not to, with all the evidence. Creationism is
child abuse. Indoctrinating the Christian God is child abuse. QED! :)
Rod "...enough said!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 23 Feb 97 21:49:32
EID:630c 2257ae20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33104aec
* On 19-02-97 at 11:30, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel Boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> ky> But, why is it okay for people to be against Christians,
RS> ky> but not for one to be against homosexuality?
RS> RH> Because Christians are harmful to others and are
RS> RH> Christians by choice. Homosexuality is neither.
RS> ky> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
RS> Sigh. I've asked you before, and you ran away from it.
RS> I'll ask you again, right now. Can you name THREE gays that
RS> are harmful to others? *I* can name three Xtians that are
RS> harmful to others.
Give him a real challenge -- ask him to prove that homosexuality
is completely and utterly harmful :)
RS> ky> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual
RS> ky> orientation.
RS> Untrue. We have substantive evidence that the orientation
RS> of the individual is controlled by the chemicals of the
RS> brain, based on the birth state of the brain.
We have some substantive evidence that genetics may produce a
different brain chemical combination, yes. However, it's too
early for it to be conclusive.
However, we do have 100% scientific evidence that the following
is fact:
* sexual orientation is innate
* sexual orientation is not readily changeable
* sexual orientation does not affect the capacity for
one to be any worse or better at:
-- serving in the military.
-- interior design.
-- bricklaying.
-- hair dressing.
-- parenting.
* sexual orientation does not affect the manner in which
all humans tend to seek life-long companionship.
...among thousands of other points that can be made about how
sexual orientation is a normal, healthy human variant.
RS> RH> So burn homosexuality in Hell, not homosexuals.
RS> ky> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they
RS> ky> aren't loved.
RS> Man, you are one sick motherfucker . . .
I wonder what would happen if, say, Ken were a convicted child
sexual abuser, and he met his new cell mate "Bobo" and told him
that he was in for child sexual assault, but it was ok because
"just because the kids suffered and I've fucked them up for life,
doesn't mean I didn't love them".
I'm sure Bobo would do his best to teach Ken a lesson. :) :)
Rod "...don't you agree, Richard?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just stand there!!! Kneel!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:11:34
EID:26fe 2257b160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105016
* On 17-02-97 at 09:39, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> pa> they cannot change?
RS> RodS> A good question. Why are you against gay people?
RS> ky> I'm not, I am against homosexuality.
RS> And, oddly enough, that's only practiced by gay people. You
RS> avoid the question.
He's also mentioned many times in his diatribes about
"homosexuals", and making generally false statements about them
:) So much for his crusade against the sin and not the sinner :)
And remember he's not attacking gays, although he has said
they're going to burn in hell and god will STILL love them :)
RS> ky> ANd the difference is a black person cannot decide the
RS> ky> color of their skin, while gays do choose their sexual
RS> ky> orientation.
RS> I refer you to the book Sex And The Brain, in which the
RS> authors cite studies from several universities that indicate
RS> that sexual orientation is hardwired into our brains . . .
RS> that homosexuality is a product of certain neurotransmitters
RS> and complex brain chemistry that gay people can no more
RS> control than blacks can control the color of their skin.
RS> I.e., they're born that way. It was put out by Jo
RS> Durden-Smith and Diane deSimone, published in paperback by
RS> Warner books, and has the ISBN 0-446-32316-0. It is only
RS> part of the literature out there that indicates that gay
RS> people are born gay, and that there's nothing they can do
RS> about it. You are debunked again, bigot.
Of course he is. He also forgot that with modern science, we can
change our skin colour. A black person need no longer be black.
Nor a white person white! Since skin colour is a choice,
should conform to be , eh
Ken?
RS> SA> Did you choose your sexual orientation? Have you ASKED
RS> SA> anyone who is gay if they chose their sexual orientation?
RS> SA> I thought not...
RS> ky> I more than likely did not choose to be straight, but
RS> ky> then, that would be because heterosexuality is one's
RS> ky> natural sexual orientation.
RS> Why, because YOU chose it? LOL . . . that is HARDLY a
RS> recommendation, aspicced one.
No, because he supposed it by default. He automatically
invalidated (without due reason), 1) that his sexual orientation
may actually not be the natural one, 2) that there is only one
"correct" sexual orientation.
But what else could we expect from someone who no longer thinks,
but refers to a rustic ol' tome that has no relevance -- which
only teaches "my way, or no way" or "I'm right, and everyone else
is wrong".
This "my way or no way" mentality has been present in his hateful
little spew about gay people all along. He's mentally-inept,
Richard. He needs a good brain-enema.
RS> ky> It is what we are, whether one accepts that or not.
RS> "IS NOT!" "IS NOT!" "IS NOT!"
RS> So, you have NO evidence then?
No. He just stated that there is only one correct sexual
orientation, and it's his. Even though we've presented evidence
to validate all sexual orientations on the spectrum from
heterosexual to homosexual as being as normal variations of
sexual orientation.
RS> ky> SOme gays will admit they chose it, but most won't.
RS> How nice. You have set yourself up as the arbitrater of gays.
But remember, he's not talking about gays. He's talking about
homosexuality, and claims they are different topics :) So
different, in fact, that he's claiming he's only attacking
one of the two. :) :)
RS> Kind of pompous of you, don't you think? Name three
RS> gays that admit that they chose it. And tell us how it is
RS> that you can read the minds of the entire gay populace so
RS> that you can `know' this.
I asked him to get more than three. I asked him to survey a
large sample size, say, 1000 gay people, and a similar
heterosexual sample size, say 5000 (they're easier to find), and
ask ALL of them if they chose.
The answer should be more than 95% saying that they "chose" to
even begin to validate his theory. Then the other 5% have to be
accounted for in the research data as being flawed responses, or
confused responses, etc.
RS> ky> WHich just means they are not aware of it.
RS> Have you considered that homosexuality has a very real
RS> function in the natural world?
Why would he consider something that is clearly against his
small-mind thinking of "my way, or no way".
RS> RodS> can choose not to be Christian. Are you saying they
RS> RodS> deserve no equality in civil rights protections
RS> RodS> because religion is a choice?
RS> ky> No, I am not saying that, but first you must show me
RS> ky> an example of gays being discriminated against.
RS> Oh, are you saying that there is NO discrimination against
RS> gays? Are you saying that gaybashing doesn't exist, or
RS> doesn't happen? Got any evidence to back this up?
Of course he doesn't. I can point to the three SUPREME COURT
cases of LAST YEAR's session that dealt with unequal treatment of
gays.
But remember, Ken's not talking about gays. You see, if he were,
his argument would fall apart with the debunking that the
existence of gay people do to his "argument".
Ken doesn't want to talk about gays, because gays will tell him
that his theory that they "chose" is wrong, that his theory that
one sexual orientation is right and the rest are not is also
wrong, etc, etc.
That's why he doesn't want to talk about PEOPLE living their
lives. He wants to remove them from their identity, and attack
that identity cruelly and without regard for the consequence of
the people he is attacking.
RS> ky> And anyway, the Constitution gives people the right of
RS> ky> freedom of religion. Nowhere does it say anything about
RS> ky> the freedom of sexual orientation.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 2/
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:11:36
EID:d6fe 2257b160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105018
>>> Continued from previous message
RS> Who said the Constitution is the final arbitrator of
RS> personal rights? The Constitution also doesn't give anyone
RS> the right to wear the color green. Should we forbid the
RS> color green because of it?
The Constitution reserves all rights not enumerated to the people :)
RS> The Constitution did not give anyone the right of any
RS> religious expression at first.
You are right. That is why it is the First Amendment. :)
RS> Here is your mentioned amendment.
RS> Article I. Congress shall make no law respecting an
RS> establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
RS> exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or
RS> of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
RS> assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of
RS> grievances.
You are correct.
RS> Now, as to gays being discriminated against, in Georgia
RS> within the last ten years there was a landmark case in which
RS> some stormtroopers (read that police) kicked down the door
RS> of a gay couple while they were engaged in consentual sex
RS> and arrested them. THIS _is_ in direct violation of the
RS> amendments of the Constitution, unless you can claim that
RS> homosexuality is illegal:
RS> Article IV. The right of the people to be secure in their
RS> persons, houses, papers, and effects, against
RS> unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
RS> violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable
RS> cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly
RS> describing the place to be searched, and the persons or
RS> things to be seized.
That is a bit of a misnomer. The case of Bowers v Hardwick is
one where defendant Hardwick and another was charged with sodomy.
The police came to Hardwick's apartment looking for someone. A
friend who was in the apartment, but who did not know Hardwick
and his lover were home, did their civic duty and let the police
in to answer some questions. One of the officers decided to
look into each room of the house to check if the person they were
questioning for was present. The police officer walked in on
Hardwick and his lover while they were performing acts that were
contrary to Georgia's sodomy statute.
They were charged.
The Georgia statutes relating to sodomy were challenged, and they
were appealed all the way to the US Supreme Court. The Supreme
Court decided NOT to overturn Georgia's statutes, as the charges
were dropped, and hence Hardwick was not under penalty of
imprisonment anymore.
One of the justices (now retired) has mentioned that he would now
have changed his vote in that 5-4 decision, and ruled Georgia's
sodomy laws to be unconstitutional as they were an invasion on
the privacy of consentual adults.
RS> Now, even though you are correct that there is nothing in
RS> the Constitution (or its amendments) guaranteeing freedom of
RS> sexuality specifically, you were incorrect when you implied
RS> that there was religious protection in the original
RS> Constitution.
Don't worry. We're about to declare a new religion where
homosexuality is part of the practices of the religion.
We're sick of sitting back and being denied our rights by
religious fools, so we are starting a church :)
And since Amendment 1 says:
Article I. Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
-----------------------
exercise thereof;...
----------------
I'm sure gay people will be able to start that religion really
soon now :)
RS> It was added after the fact. And the same
RS> could be done with sexual freedom. Perhaps the founding
RS> fathers wanted to guarantee it but didn't think of it,
RS> specifically. That may be why they put this amendment in:
RS> Article IX. The enumeration in the Constitution of certain
RS> rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others
RS> retained by the people.
Ah... This is the reference I made above. The 9th is
specifically the reservation of all rights not enumerated in the
constitution to be that of the people.
RS> Or consider Article XIV, proposed June of 1866 and
RS> proclaimed in July of 1868:
RS> Article XIV.
RS> 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
RS> subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of
RS> the United States and of the States wherein they
RS> reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which
RS> shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens
RS> of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any
RS> person of life, liberty, or property without due
RS> process of law, nor deny to any person within its
RS> jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Equal protection has helped. Especially with Griswold v
Connecticut. Sexual privacy is a non-enumerated, yet recognised
right under the 9th. :) Equal protection means that if they are
going to judicially apply it, it must apply to all. This is how
sodomy laws have been killed in other state courts :)
Rod "...yadda yadda, Ken's debunked" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:13:38
EID:fa62 2257b1a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105092
* On 17-02-97 at 11:07, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> ky> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals,
RS> ky> as there is a big difference.
RS> What is the big difference?
The big difference is that he mentions them when he wants to
describe "their filthy practices" or their "unnatural lifestyle",
but then completely departs from wanting to talk about them --
indeed, claiming we CANNOT talk about gay people -- when they
impact on his argument and DEBUNK it.
Rod "... I never chose, Ken, and our lifestyles are the same,
Ken" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:16:40
EID:fa62 2257b200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105148
* On 17-02-97 at 13:19, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> KW> Odd. The homosexuals don't seem to have any problem
RS> KW> getting parts to fit.
RS> ky> Have you asked them?
RS> Have you?
For the record, they fit just fine. In fact, whole hands, arms,
etc, fit up "that area", and doctors do it every day.
RS> Are you saying here that dildoes, etc., do NOT exist?
Shhh... You'll turn him on. And you know we'll be able to hear
that boner at 100 paces :) *schwing!*
Rod "...and don't mention the 9" jelly-textured one" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:17:42
EID:d18f 2257b220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105186
* On 16-02-97 at 20:31, FREDRIC RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> KY> to be against homosexuality? And notice, I say,
FR> KY> homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
FR> KY> difference.
FR> mg> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
FR> mg> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
FR> Answer the question, Jelly.
Why, by spanking us hard, tying us up in leather, and using dildos...
Rod "... oh my, I think I can read Ken's thoughts and fantasies" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Homosexuals also rep
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:33:44
EID:585d 2257b420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105548
* On 19-02-97 at 22:33, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROGER HUNTER,
on the topic of "Homosexuals also reproduc" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rh> Ok, I'll bite. I can see a lesbian couple having babies as
FR> rh> long as a sperm donor is available, but how can a male
FR> rh> couple have a baby?
FR> rh> Surrogate mothers are not part of the couple, after all.
FR> The majority of the adult homosexual individuals around
FR> the world -- male and female alike -- have participated
FR> in a successfull breeding at least once in their lives.
Correct. You're 100% correct, Fred.
FR> Most homosexual adults reproduce just as most heterosexual
FR> adults reproduce.
Not as prevalently, but an overwhelming majority do. More than
80% of gay people express a desire to have children.
FR> In fact percentages of adult homosexuals having participated
FR> in successful breeding are roughly equal to the percentages
FR> of adult heterosexuals having done the same.
Roughly. I believe they are about 6-8% lower.
FR> You're possibly making the mistake of assuming that
FR> homosexuality is all about sex and that homosexuals don't
FR> mate with heterosexual and homosexual people of the
FR> opposite sex gender.
You're right in that many people assume homosexuality equals
sex, and homosexuality cannot equal love.
FR> Love is part of the mix, not just sexual lust.
Yep, right on the money.
FR> Love entertained by an individual toward another individual
FR> usually knows no need to be bound by whether said other
FR> individual is of the same sex gender or not;
I love my partner Christopher not because of his gender, but
despite it.
FR> Homosexual and heterosexual behavior is a matter of predominate
FR> tendacies when exhibiting sexual behavior; it's not something that's
FR> carved into everyone's brain and is set for life -- "this
FR> individual is pre-programmed to be a heterosexual and this
FR> individual is pre-programmed to be a homosexual..."
Now our opinions are starting to diverge :)
FR> It is a matter of degree which, like everything else in a human's
FR> life, fluctuates and seeks new experiences and new
FR> horizons. There may be a genetic predisposistion, yes, yet
FR> my look into these matters leaves me with the conclusion
FR> that one could apply _percentages_ to one's sexual
FR> preferences and that those percentages fluctuate.
I have found that mine do not. Some people who have a bisexual
orientation might have wavering degrees of sexual output in
specific orientations from time to time, which they may consider
phases. I would consider them to be phases that come with a
sociological change. Example: a person who is innately 50-50
bisexual may settle down and marry a person of the opposite sex.
Their behavioural pattern *through choice* may be to eliminate
sex with the same sex.
I don't see this, however, as changing the base biological
orientation of that person. I see it only as a behavioural
change brought about by a change in circumstance -- a behavioural
choice.
For some people, at either ends of the sexual orientation
spectrum, their feelings or behaviours do not normally change
this way. Myself, having no interest whatsoever in the female
sex and being in a committed relationship, sees my behaviour and
orientation at a stable 100-0 proportion.
Kinsey described a scale from 1 to 6 to describe sexual
orientation and sexual behaviour.
FR> I could supposed that at the current moment I am 90% heterosexual.
FR> Others would probably tell me I'm 100% because I don't engage in
FR> homosexual behavior -- however ill-defined.
This would be a sexual orientation issue.
FR> Yet that can't be true because there remains a narrow avenue of
FR> circumstances where I could consider a homosexual act. I
FR> would be motivated by money, for instance, if enough of it
FR> were presented.
Another example of a sociological factor that has not changed
your sexual orientation, only your behaviour in an isolated
(or even prolonged) incident.
FR> The same is true for homosexuals. They might never engage
FR> in heterosexual behavior -- however ill-defined. Yet they,
FR> too, can be motivated into heterosexual behavior. For
FR> money, for love, and even for guilt -- though I opine they
FR> have nothing to feel guilty of.
But behaviour and orientation aren't linked in a 100% correlation
anyway, as shown above. I agree that sociological factors can
account for one-off cases for people at either ends of the sexual
orientation spectrum, or a choice in sexual behaviours for people
who are bisexual in nature.
But all this theorising does not remove the fact that:
1) forcing someone of a sexual orientation to suppress
their "innate" behaviour is wrong (in which we both
agree :) :)
2) that sexual orientation is innate and not a choice
(in which we both agree)
3) that sexual behaviour can be influenced by human
choice for short or prolonged periods, but usually
only in people who are not averted to the sexual
behaviour that they are being influenced by (in
which I agree, and you probably do too)
FR> Bottom line is that heterosexuals and homosexuals mix in all
FR> socities around the world -- where evil governments and
FR> religious death cults don't hunt them down and execute them,
FR> tax them strangely, or otherwise make them illegal.
Agreed!
* OLX 2.1 TD * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far From!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Heathen savages & Homos
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:36:46
EID:9434 2257b480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331055fe
* On 19-02-97 at 19:00, JAN DEBOER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Heathen savages & Homos" in echo Holysmoke:
JD> KY>> But, why is it okay for people to be against Christians, but not
for
JD> KY>> one to be against homosexuality?
JD> "Common hatred unites the most heterogeneous elements. To share a common
JD> hatred, with an enemy even, is to infect him with a feeling of kinship,
JD> and thus sap his powers of resistance. Hitler used anti-Semitism not
JD> only to unify his Germans but also to sap the resoluteness of Jew-hating
JD> Poland, Rumania, Hungary, and finally even France. He made similar use
JD> of anti-communism." - Eric hoffer, "The True Beleiver"
JD> And your Christian death-cults use homosexuals as the scape goats.
Just like they did with witches, pagans, atheists, communists,
and so many other groups :)
Listen to how the gays "want your children" and "recruit them"
and will "do things to them". Parallel it with the anti-Jewish
material about how the Jews were "coming to get your children".
Then you will know that I speak the truth, Jan. Christianity is
evil. Christianity is based upon the premise of the mantra:
"Onward Christian Soldier!"
To raise a large and patriotic army of "Christian Soldiers" one
must have an effective enemy.
The enemy in US history has been atheists, pagans, witches,
commies, gays, abortionists, and women.
Rod "...who is next after the gays?" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is a Vorlon
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Direct Dialling
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:41:48
EID:f4b8 2257b520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3310572c
* On 20-02-97 at 13:29, BECKE BOYER wrote to MARK O'NEILL,
on the topic of "RE: DIRECT DIALLING" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> BB>> Weird. Neato has been working for me, but you may want to try
BB> MO> I did eventually get on two days running and had a bit of a yack.
What
BB> MO> time (your time) would be best to find more than five people in
BB> MO> #holysmoke?
BB>Hmm...there's usually a shitload of people there between 9pm and 1am
Eastern
BB>Standard Time. Not sure what country you're in, (I assume Australia),
but I'd
BB>wager to say it would be sometime mid-morning for you.
He should log in from 10am EASTERN Australian time :)
Rod "...just informing" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Could crop circles be the work of a cereal killer?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:43:50
EID:b9b8 2257b560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331057a6
* On 20-02-97 at 02:29, DAVID WORRELL wrote to LAURIE APPLETON,
on the topic of "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> LA> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
DW> LA> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
DW> LA> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
DW> LA> intelligent Designer."
DW> LA> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
DW> What part of the word "superficially" are you having trouble with?
The part that makes it obvious that there are paragraphs after
this that explains why it is superficial :) :)
The paragraphs he wants to hide and not present.
The ones with the context. :)
Rod "...just informing" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Critical Thinking
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:52:52
EID:7e4d 2257b680
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331059c4
* On 19-02-97 at 03:12, DARRYL GONZALEZ wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "Critical Thinking" in echo Holysmoke:
DG> I felt that the sender was comparing all Christians to the likes
DG> of Adolf Hitler.
All the Christians who have ever judged me have been equivalent
to Hitler. You were one of them.
Have a nice day. Wear your swastika proudly, asshole.
DG> My point was that I do not like that comparison personally, nor is
DG> it a valid one.
Tough. The comparison is not only valid, but in your case,
correct. You hateful piece of crap!
DG> We Christians are not cruel people, determined to kill whoever
DG> we want to.
You certainly do want to kill gay people, for example. Every
case of gay bashing I know of is by some baseball-bat-wielding or
gun-toting Christian moron who has screamed about how "God hates
Fags" before wielding the bat/pulling the trigger.
Filth like you don't even deserve compassion.
DG> He chose to pick on Jews (and, by the way, many Christians died
DG> trying to protect those Jews),
Many good Christian people have died defending gay people from
gaybashers.
DG> ... and as a result, six million innocent human beings died.
Do you know how many gay people are bashed in the US each year?
DG> About critical thinking: Yes, I did think critically.
No you didn't. You turned to a book, and searched only for the
passages you could *ab*use against other Humans.
You're sick. Get help!
Rod "...now!" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Could crop circles be the work of a cereal killer?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Leviticus Lives!
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:55:54
EID:9da8 2257b6e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105a7a
* On 15-02-97 at 21:34, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Leviticus Lives!" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> JD>So, you don't cut your hair, shave, eat shrimp, or wear
DR> JD>cotton/polyester?
DR> Shrimp? Jan, there a culinary staple in Louisiana. :)
DR> 11:6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered,
DR> and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and
DR> creeping things, and fowls of the air.
DR> 11:7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and
DR> eat.
Nothing about swimming fishy shrimpy things in there. Besides
which, you didn't mention anything about the HOPPERS!
The bible condemns the eating of such shrimp and shellfish. You
didn't answer the biblical commandments against mixed fibres or
shaving or cutting the hair.
You sinner! Burn in hell for all I care!
Rod "...you're a moron" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:57:56
EID:66b5 2257b720
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105af4
* On 17-02-97 at 12:15, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to DARRYL GONZALEZ,
on the topic of "Evidences for God" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> Darryl,
DR> Well put, Brother. Repeatedly the evidence is submitted and repeatedly
DR> they fail to see it or admit that it "is" evidence. Yet they see not
that
DR> the beliefs they themselves espouse require more faith than ours ever
would.
Get a dictionary. Look up meaning of word "evidence". Look up
meaning of word "belief". Look up meaning of word "opinion".
Your OPINIONS are BELIEFS, not EVIDENCE.
Rod "... now *THAT'S* well put, brother" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 23 Feb 97 22:59:58
EID:0d5d 2257b760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105b6e
* On 17-02-97 at 12:57, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Conversion" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> FR>Money: The prime motivational factor in all things Christian.
DR> FR>Even Christian hatred is a secondary, revenue-making ideological
DR> FR>cornerstone.
DR> There are many examples of corruption in every area of things touched
by
DR> humans. That does not negate the existence of God. Care to prove that
it
DR> does?
Your whine does not negate the existence of the question. Please
answer the question.
I have one to add to it. Why are you not out exposing the false
prophets and the charlatans? Or are they too convenient in doing
your bidding in your agenda of religious hatred that you do not
speak up against their injustice, because some of their
injustices of means are suitable to your political or social ends?
Rod "...is that the reason for your silence over the injustice,
the hatred, and the lies?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: TIME Atheist Article
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:02:00
EID:fec6 2257b840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105be8
* On 18-02-97 at 09:31, DAVID RAGLAND wrote to TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER,
on the topic of "TIME Atheist Article" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> ATHEIST SPEAKS OUT AGAINST HIS FORMER MASTERS
DR> Hello Zerotheists,
DR> Hope this little missive finds you folks well under the loving
care of
DR> the edicts of Nietzsche, Darwin, O'Hare, Ellen Johnson, and... well,
you get
DR> the point. How are all you wonderful, brilliant "overdudes" and "overchics"
DR> doing today anyway? I thought you might all like to here from one of
your
DR> "oversiblings." Mr. Brian Lynch has some sniveling to do about how
he was
DR> treated by those brilliant, zerotheist masters of yours. What _IS_
he
DR> talking about folks? Could it be that zerotheist organizations are
guilty o
DR> some of the same things that Christian churches are accused of doing
on a
DR> consistent basis? Could they perhaps be human? Could it be that a
little
DR> greed has found it's way into their hearts? How the mighty hath fallen.
DR> For shame. For shame.
The *possible* fall of the founders of one atheist organisation
compares to the dozens and dozens of Christian ministers who have
only *ever* fleeced their ministeries for funds?
I'd rather stick with the non-religious groups, thanks :)
Rod "...you're a hypocritical moron, David" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:04:02
EID:93e0 2257b880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33105c62
* On 19-02-97 at 03:01, DAVID WORRELL wrote to DARRYL GONZALEZ,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> DC>> All in all, it's a group of self-righteous people attempting
DW> DC>> to foist their myopic view of moralily on the rest of the world.
DW> DG> Funny.....the same could be said, and with greater accuracy, of
those
DW> DG> who hold your point of view.
DW> Really? Atheists try to blockade your church, preventing you from
DW> worshipping?
DW> Atheists try to pass laws preventing you from attending the
DW> church of your choice?
DW> Atheists claim special tax deductions for their
DW> organizations, while denying your organizations the same
DW> priviledge?
DW> Are all these things really happening?
You forgot to ask how atheists were shooting up Christian health
centres, and how atheists were trying to teach sciences in
Sunday School. :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wonder Woman Wins
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:29:04
EID:a086 2257bba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33106240
* On 16-02-97 at 20:45, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVID RAGLAND,
on the topic of "Wonder Woman Wins" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> Oh: By the way... Let's not forget that you seem to have
FR> fallen silent as to the undeniable fact that Wonder Woman
FR> comic books _are_ superior in consistance to your death
FR> cult's mythologies.
FR> Do you conceed the fact? Or do you still want to stomp
FR> your little foot and scream, "Is not!" with your eyes
FR> tightly closed -- and your mind controlled by your masters.
You forgot the quick and forceful insertion of fingers into the
ears with the scream. The two accompany each other.
Rod "....wahhh... he's going to tell his mummy on us!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:30:06
EID:42dd 2257bbc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3310627e
* On 16-02-97 at 20:46, FREDRIC RICE wrote to PAUL WALKER,
on the topic of "Fundies" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> DR> That's true. Atheism = "without theism," i.e. a lack of
FR> DR> belief in the gods. No faith involved.
FR> pw> Faith that they don't exist?
FR> Name three atheists you find in this forum who claims that
FR> deities don't exist.
FR> The reason why youcan't is because you're mistaken -- or
FR> most likely (if You're a death cultist) because your
FR> masters have been lying to you.
Shall I repost the four stages of theism for him, Fred?
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: E, F and G Mail.
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:34:08
EID:07a4 2257bc40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33106370
* On 19-02-97 at 22:29, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "E, F and G Mail." in echo Holysmoke:
FR> dr> The behavior was drastically different than what I see at
FR> dr> "singles bars" that have both women and men. In these
FR> dr> bars, men tend to show up alone, and the women show up
FR> dr> in groups of two or more and they stay together. Nor do
FR> dr> they talk to each other very much.
FR> Does HolySmoke have a social behavioralist which could
FR> comment on these differences?
I can suggest a reason -- sociologically-speaking -- men are
indoctrinated in this culture to be independent, even to the
point of not sharing with others who may be sharing the same (in
this instance, male) experience.
This is why some people are starting to suggest that for the sake
of equality, men's issues are now becoming important. Support
groups for testicular and colon cancer, impotence, etc, etc.
All those uniquely male things that we don't get together and
"male-bond" about.
Who in your father's generation ever "male bonded".
In fact, I think the only place that groups of guys go is to the
local bar for *drinking* rather than *dating* purposes... oh, and
to the local brothel :)
Rod "...normally to celebrate the last night of a single-man's
unweddedness, or to celebrate a sporting victory :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:39:10
EID:d18f 2257bce0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3310649e
* On 19-02-97 at 23:13, FREDRIC RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> And you joined it. You must be in agreement with the
FR> FR> death cult and what it stands for.
FR> kyjelly> I joined it? You mean FOcus On The family?
FR> kyjelly> No, I think I would remember that.
FR> Amazing. No, idiot, you joined the Christanic death cult.
FR> That must mean you're in agreement with its history as well
FR> as its contemporary deadly ideologies, right?
Well, that assumption can be made only if he does *NOT* denounce
and expose such heinous acts of terrorism perpetrated by
Christianity on the populace.
In fact, since he repeats the lies given to him by his masters
about homosexuality, and hence is a willing party to defaming and
debasing gay people -- he's got blood on his hands when a gay
person gets bashed because of "God hating faggots".
He has accepted himself as being part of the rhetoric. He has
accepted responsibility for the hatred he spreads.
FR> kyjelly> And what makes it evil, that you disagree with it?
FR> Historically the Christanic death cult has been and remains
FR> the single most deadly suit of ideologies ever unleashed
FR> upon humanity. And you joined it.
Not only willingly, but apparently in support of the modern-day
atrocities against people of differing faiths, sexual
orientations or political and social ideologies.
These are the modern-day versions of the Spanish Inquisition, or
the Salem Witch Trials, or .
FR> kyjelly> So, would you be for all non-profit groups to lose that status?
FR> I would favor big businesses (like the death cult) paying their
FR> fair share of the tax burdon. Actual charity organizations
FR> (such as my own Skeptic Tank) should continue to be tax exempt
FR> simply because we're actually working for the benefit of humanity,
FR> not working to inflict further evil.
*Hoooray!*
FR> Which you joined.
Which he did, and not only joined, became a fully-fledged and
trained "Christian Soldier", hellbent on destroying as many
"enemies" as he can.
He *is* the enemy. He doesn't even realise it. Of course he
won't denounce the past abuses of Christianity. He wishes to
perpetrate even more of them.
Rod "...and you can quote me on that" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Psalm 68:18 / Act 1:9
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:47:12
EID:8493 2257bde0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33106680
* On 18-02-97 at 12:55, LEONARD BERNIER wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Psalm 68:18 / Act 1:9" in echo Holysmoke:
LB> PRAISE GOD !
LB> PROPHECY: - The Messiah will ascend to heaven.
LB> "Thou hast ascended on high."
LB> FULFULLMENT: "He [Jesus] was lifted up while they were looking on,
LB> and a cloud received Him out of their sight."
PROPHECY: I will fart on a Monday
FULFILLMENT: Wow! I did!
Therefore I am God. Worship my fart, Leonard.
Rod "...ahahahahahaha" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Have enough already, dic
|Date: 23 Feb 97 23:51:14
EID:0481 2257be60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33106772
* On 20-02-97 at 12:23, MARK O'NEILL wrote to ABRAM GARCIA,
on the topic of "Have enough already, dick" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> Where are you, you cowardly little prick? You wanted the opportunity
to
MO> educate the masses, so, now's your chance. Get that pious finger of
yours
MO> out of your virginal freckle and start educating dammit! You're in
the
MO> big leagues now, boy. Have some balls and post something for fuck's
sake.
MO> What a spineless little pillowbiter you are.
Oi. Don't attack pillowbiters...
Rod "...or you may not live to appreciate it :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Clint Eastwood on Waco
|Date: 24 Feb 97 00:04:16
EID:3427 22580080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33106a80
* On 20-02-97 at 22:54, TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Clint Eastwood on Waco" in echo Holysmoke:
TL> "Talk about making my day," said the Libertarian Party's
TL> National Director, Perry Willis. "Having Clint Eastwood declare himself
TL> a libertarian is better than a fistful of dollars. We hope his
TL> announcement will have a sudden impact on the public's awareness of
the
TL> libertarian philosophy -- and the Libertarian Party, too."
TL> However, voters shouldn't expect to see "Dirty Harry For
TL> President" bumperstickers appearing soon; Eastwood flatly rejected a
TL> career in politics. "Being a politician is about the last thing I'd
TL> want to do," he said. "It's a lot of work and a lot of frustration."
Maybe someone should make press-release puns and bumper sticker
comments illegal, punishable by death :)
TL> Eastwood joins a growing number of individuals in the
TL> entertainment industry who have identified themselves as libertarians.
TL> Included on that list are TV star John Laroquette, humorist Dave Barry,
TL> author P.J. O'Rourke, movie actor Russell Means, magician Jillette
TL> Penn, author Camille Paglia, TV reporter John Stossell, and comedian
TL> Dennis Miller.
Isn't this wonderful. Tell us about the Libertarian's
ever-changing platform plank on same-gender marriage equal
rights, Mr TANKS! :)
Rod "...hehehee" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't get stuck in a closet. Wear yourself out.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Atlanta Bombings
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:45:20
EID:a244 22599da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3312d0d0
From Reuters News Wire....
"Army of God" threatens``total war'' against the federal government and
promises further attacks on homosexuals, their organizations and supporters
By David Morgan
ATLANTA (Reuter) - An anonymous letter purported to be from a militant
Christian group called the Army of God claimed responsibility on Monday
for
the recent bombings of an abortion clinic and a gay and lesbian nightclub
in
Atlanta.
The FBI could not say immediately whether the letter, posted to an
international news agency within hours of last Friday night's explosion
at a
lesbian bar, was a genuine claim of responsibility or sent by a crank.
But investigators said they were aware of a shadowy radical group called
the Army of God, which had been known to circulate bomb-making manuals as
a
means of advocating violence against abortion clinics.
The letter purported to contain details about the makeup of bombs used in
both attacks and sought to set up a system by which claims of responsibility
could be confirmed after future bombings.
The letter also threatened ``total war'' against the federal government
and promised further attacks on homosexuals, their organizations and
supporters.
In a reference to abortion, it lashed out at what it called the annual
``murder'' of 3.5 million children, saying the practice would not be
tolerated.
The letter, postmarked Saturday from an Atlanta branch post office, ended
with a promise of death to the ``new world order''.
In the latest bombing, an explosive device packed with nails went off
Friday in the rear patio section of the Otherside Lounge in northeast Atlanta
shortly before 10 p.m. EST, injuring five people and sending a young woman
to
the hospital with a nail in her arm.
In mid-January, a bomb described by FBI agents as being of similar makeup
shattered the offices of the Atlanta Family Planning Services center in
the
suburb of Sandy Springs.
A second explosive device was left in an outside parking lot in both
attacks, as if intended for law enforcement officers and rescue workers
responding to the initial emergency call.
At least half a dozen people were injured outside the Sandy Springs
abortion clinic when the second bomb went off.
Federal officials, who say the bombings and the deadly Centennial Olympic
Park bombings bear similarities, have speculated that a serial bomber may
be
at large in Atlanta.
All three bombings remain unsolved.
ECHO MAGAZINE (g/l/b/t of Phoenix)
Atlanta Bombing Investigative Lead
by Jeff Ofstedahl for Echo Magazine
(Jeff4echo@aol.com)
Phoenix, AZ-An investigative lead to the Feb. 22 bombing of The Other Side
lesbian bar in Atlanta developed in Phoenix, Feb. 24. When the business
manager for the Gay Community Yellow Pages (GCYP) opened the office Monday
morning, he found a caller left a message claiming responsibility for the
bomb attack.
"The Sons of Confederate Klan, a new neo-Nazi , KKK organization from Los
Angeles, California, take responsibility for the bombing."
The caller sounded like a woman's voice, although it could have been a man
trying to disguise himself. There was a distinct southern accent.
"I don't know why they would call us," GCYP owner Marci Alt said. As soon
as
she found the message, she said she called the Phoenix Police Department.
"They didn't know what to do," she reported. She then contacted the Atlanta
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the agency handling the
bombing investigation. The ATF sent three Phoenix-based agents to interview
Alt and her staff. They left with a recording of the message.
"We're definitely treating this as a serious investigative lead," ATF
Supervisory Special Agent Steve Ott told Echo Magazine. Ott said he forwarded
the information and the tape from Phoenix to Atlanta.
Echo Magazine later learned that an identical message was left Sunday morning
on the message machine at the Washington, DC-based National Gay and Lesbian
Task Force.
The Phoenix message baffled investigators until they learned that GCYP used
to be based in Atlanta. The company still has an inactive office there,
with
a phone which automatically directs calls to its Phoenix office.
Tawanda Shaw of Klan Watch, a group associated with the Southern Poverty
Law
Center in Montgomery, Alabama, said her group has no previous record of
any
organization calling itself the "Sons of Confederate Klan." She said she
was
starting a new file based on that name and the attack on the woman's bar.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheist: a person with no invisible means of support
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Kids asked for it -god?-
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:16:00
EID:fbe0 2259b200
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC0F
RS> RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
RS> Jan Deboer said to Fredric Rice about Rosemary's Baby:
RS> JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
RS> JD> performed an exorcism on a two year old. Apparently it
RS> JD> worked, although the restraints caused the wicked child
RS> JD> to die of asphyxiation in the process.
RS> I'm trying to keep a file of such things. Is there any way
RS> you could send me more information?
I think Jan is thinking about the [ 2 ] adults who drown a kid
up in the Kitchner area, all done of course. To save the kid
from the demons that were { so called } within the child. Thats
the one where they took a few hours to finally kill the kid.
The adults [ to my mind ] got off with a slap to the hand. Only
got a few years, not life.
They took lessons from the old book, forceing water down the
person, till the person , either drowns or the gut burst.
Good reglious folks, a few flashs in the paper, then soon as the
reglious aspects of it can out, the article died off.
While they were killing off the older kid, the younger got to
see all the action and screams. Pity that kid, likely when
the mother gets out of jail, she will get her hands on that one
also.
They we're Christians, persay, some weird offbeat of the
same god belief system, though.
The Kitchner/Waterloo newspaper, back last year when the
verdict can down and a year back or so, when it happen. Maybe
two years back, when it happen. I forget now.
RS> JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
That one down the Hamilton way, just last year. It ,
was abuse and stealing from an old age/pension place. Run
by some off-shoot of the old RC church. It was the nuns, that
were doing the abuseing. From stealing $$, to starvation, to beatings
of the older / cripple / helpless partons.
I posted another from a local small town, Paris, christian
care taker, fucking the little ones. Useing the basement of the
church. I think that post, never got pass my hub.
Then just after that one, can out. We had a local goverment work
being charge with under age male sex partners. Willing teens /15/16
years, but since he was in 50's or so. It was classed as rape/abuse
interference of young males.
No reglion there, it got major play. Big time. Weird or what?
The same player also got nail for the [?tea trade?] or whatever the
fuck, it's called, up in Kitchner, never did hear what happen with that
charge. The age 15 , to my mind, is a little young but as a willing
live in person ??? what can i say.
If it's reglious in nature, it has small play. If it's non_reglious
, it's a B I G P L A Y . On radio,papers, you name it.
Now Toronto has a story on kids getting/haveing sex with older
male, and it's playing big time. Talk show after talk show.
It's hockey as a game, a form of Canadian Reglion. But no gods
persay other then of the human nature.
Reglion has power in this local, No one can convince me otherwise.
==========
[ Toronto Story ]
Another point that is also getting played on big time, is the
kids ask for it. In other works, it's the VICTIM FAULT. That
label is also getting a lot of air play.
It's gay's who are doing it.... BIG PLAY
It's the victum or willing for pay ... BIG TIME
The [ GAY ] male is really getting painted black, with this one.
Check any of the Toronto papers.
The Toronto Sun ...... web..
http://www.canoe.ca via this the paper says, read the online
version of the Toronto Sun on the internet. Don't know about the back
issues/storys. I would assume,if you wish, you would be able to get
them. [ Gordon Allen Stuckless ] is the abuser, being charged.
Aonther is John Paul Roby......
The story is getting bigger all the time. Many kids, possible.
====RFV====
It will be interesting to see if this post gets out.
====RFV====
+ SLMR 2.1a + sicker and sicker, all the time.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:05:00
EID:2b08 225960a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC10
NS> DC> Impress us some more. Tell us you are Chris Green in disguise.
NS> DC> That should surely "Wow!" us.
NS>Who on earth is "Chris Green"?
A person who toss out much bait, then didn't like the replys.
+ SLMR 2.1a + A Hardy bar with an Al salad and a Staal sauce -rv-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 25 Feb 97 12:12:00
EID:7c94 22596180
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC11
> RS> Hiya Norman, how they hanging?
NS>Just fine thanks
NS>Hi Richard :)
> RS> I notice that you clipped off what I was reacting to. How
> RS> lovely of you. Just a tad disingenouos, don't you think.
> RS> Oh my fucking non-God! Another fucking Al :(
> RS> Nice of you to pass judgment, Norman. Typical
> RS> Xtian Fundy
> ns> Did'nt realise you had exclusive rights to passing
> ns> judgment :)
> RS> Did I say that I had? Anywhere? Did I actually pass
> RS> judgment, anywhere?
NS>Can a worse judgement fall upon anyone in this echo than being described
NS>as "Another fucking Al" DYSWIM?
When you work your way to a 'Staal_ing', then you had the biscuit.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Fundys are like baby crows. All mouth and asshole.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous ig
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:03:00
EID:c8da 22599860
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC12
>> JB> Uh.... Mine -was- a serious question....
> DC>John, ever stop to wonder why Frederic _didn't_ take your
> DC>question seriously?
> RV> As it sits on the Nill Point of a Non_Zero value, it appears to be
at
> RV> rest,,,,,,,,, but only to those who are still outside of quantum frame
> RV> S E R I O U S Quantumly .........
DC>Now to see if we can get John to right the paper on that.
DC>LOL!
Confuse the shit out of John B. Tell him the indents of a new paragraph
is 35 spaces from the 0 point of the page. Now all one needs to
wonder about, is if we should confuse the issue by bring in Right/Left
side of the page. Hell, if he lose count with a 0 point, just
think what a Right/Left reference, from said zero point will do to
his quantum nature.
DC>... John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop & Bitching Emporium, Billions served
+ SLMR 2.1a + ** Epicentre Of The Universe, Quantumly Speaking **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Kiss the fags! Make them
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:05:00
EID:ef4a 225998a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC13
FR>rv> So i have a dream, perhaps it's with age, I've
FR>rv> gotten a little more understanding and knowledge.
FR>rv> I refuse to believe that humans will always be this dumb.
FR>rv> I think humans can be better, with knowledge comes understanding,
or
FR>rv> at least i hope so. Perhaps your correct, the god belief system,
sure
FR>rv> as hell hasn't help with the giveing to understanding, bit.
FR>If I didn't believe in that high ideal, I wouldn't be organizing to try
to b
FR>it about.
Good. Now I know, I'm not the only one.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Never Underestimate the power of Human Stupidity
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Skeptic Tank Staff Membe
|Date: 25 Feb 97 19:35:00
EID:a652 22599c60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC14
RS> * On 14-02-97 at 11:15, RONALD VASS wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
RS> on the topic of "Skeptic Tank Staff Member" in echo Holysmoke:
>> FR>NOTE: Rod, what about handleing the homophobic rants that come in?
A
>> FR>handeling the other gay related issues?
>RV> Rod would be the one, going by this area. To Cover that topic.
RS>Accepted :)
It would appear that you can handel it quit well. Proper spelling and
pose style , plus knowledge and willing to be upfront. With most
of the anti-style of postings, i have seen. They make my style of
writeing, look almost, not bad.
>RV> I just can't understand , why Christians get
>RV> themselfs in a knot over this issue. AFter all, their God, created
all
>RV> humans. Gay / Bi / Straight / or whatever.
RS>That's right. But the concept is so alien to them. It's like
RS>how their God created all the races, but it doesn't stop the
RS>racist ones.
I had the JW's drop by today, finally. I thought they had lost me.
The JW's now have a web site, too bad she didn't know what it was, so
i can't post it. With the last JW's, i got to test pono videos on them
but never had a gay video to have playing in the back ground. I now have, just such a video, i also have to admit, i
now know why Mistress J doesn't care to watch two chicks haveing sex.
I admit watch two males haveing sex, a bit of an embarrassment in mix
company.
RS>Well, I have an interesting article to share about Christian
RS>homophobia leading to anti-gay violence... A nice piece of
RS>propaganda claiming that because *gays* are *visible*,
RS>*homophobes* will eventually *bash them*.
Such power that a gay person has...usually males... if not for
the gay power, there wouldn't be any homophobe, assholes/people.
RS>Hence gays should go away, rather than homophobes seek help for
RS>their illogical violence.
Like the women, like the blacks, like the Jews, like the
RS>Rod "...it's an interesting read, if you want me to type it in,
RS>just say so" Swift :)
Sure as hell. Go for it. I've been storeing some of your postings
to use a references or replay in the local area.
I've all ready have the title of Satan's mouth piece, Queer Lover,
None Human, etc..etc.. So far, they haven't classed me as a Jesus
lover, so I haven't slip down that far yet.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Most gods have the morals and manners of a spoiled child
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Kiss the fags! Make them
|Date: 25 Feb 97 21:40:00
EID:ef4a 2259ad00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3313AC15
FR>rv> I think humans can be better, with knowledge comes understanding,
or
FR>rv> at least i hope so. Perhaps your correct, the god belief system,
sure
FR>rv> as hell hasn't help with the giveing to understanding, bit.
FR>If I didn't believe in that high ideal, I wouldn't be organizing to try
to b
FR>it about.
FR> http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/index.htm
FR> frice@linkline.com or frice@stbbs.com
You should see how much it would cost to produce a CD-rom disk.
The file collection that your doing & Styx has, dealing with various
cults and stories of those cults. Too bad you don't know someone who has
a writeable cdrom unit. I know the disks don't cost all that much and
you all ready have the tape drive for storage of files. Least i think
thats how the local users makes up Elet-dsk's. Program reads the tape
and writes to the cd-disk ? With the various users in this area, you
could make up a half dozen disks <600 meg> easy. If you ever do
this, advertise it at least once a month, that way i may even see it.
Bad FIDO_Bitch in this area.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Ask me about my vow of silence.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Holysmoke Hellions & Help Group *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 27 Feb 97 11:35:00
EID:c3c9 225b5c60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 33163967
DR> Have your belief. Worship your zerogod. Fine by me. Neither Pat
DR>Robertson nor myself really care if you _insist._ No one wants to _make_
yo
DR>believe as you claim. Have at what you will... Just remember that whereof
DR>you cannot speak, thereof you must remain silent.
Good company you place yourself in. . .
__View of Christian Love__
" The work of a secret feminist agenda that is not about
equal rights for women.It is about a socialist,
anti-family political movement that encourages women to
leave their husbands, kill their children, practice
witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."
-- Pat Robertson on the Iowa Equal Rights Amendment --
+ SLMR 2.1a + Continue your petty bickering i find it most intriguing
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 27 Feb 97 11:53:00
EID:c3c9 225b5ea0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 33163969
DR> The evidence is right in front of you everytime you look through
a
DR>microscope. Look at a cell. I mean look at it real close, Martin.
And tel
DR>me that you really believe that it is an accident.
DR> You seem to be trying to lure me to
DR>conversations containing complexities that you have the upper hand on.
Well
DR>I know enough about science in general to know that
DR>that it cannot yet prove or disprove evolution _or_ creation. While
I like
By that statement, you are only showing that you don't understand
what science is about. Science doesn't worry about -Prove-ing anything.
Nor does it worry about Dis-Prove-ing anything, it just toss out what
doesn't work and keeps what does work.
Science works on evidence of results, not some god idea of wishful
thinking.
If you read your Paul Davies a little closer, even he doesn't make
your above mistake.
From 'God and the new Physics' -dust cover blurb-
....For Davies,science offers a surer path to God then reglion.....
+ SLMR 2.1a + So only the stupid see God. Say's The Science Editor.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: All
|Sub: David Ragland & god?????
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:03:00
EID:570f 225b6060
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3316396A
David Ragland is waiting to kick down doors for god.
DR>DC>You sure are, Fuck.
DR> Forget to take your tranquilizers? Are you suffering with Tourette's
DR> So, you sit a world away and do through a keyboard that which you
are
DR>too petrified to do in face to face scenarios. You can continue to do
so
DR>because of _real_ men like me, by the way. Today, me and mine kicked
in
DR>doors and served warrants so that profane lil' pencil necked geeks like
DR>yourself can continue to safely sit and peck out that which is meaningless.
Good Goat of the non_pepper version.
If's it not .... I'm brighter the you
I'm a Real True Christian
I'm a black belt in laughts
now we get to 'me and mine' kicking down the doors for -something-
I really must wonder who should be takeing a tranquilizer or something.
+ SLMR 2.1a + U have problems with evil rabbits, use a holy hand grenad
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Wrong side of beef
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:28:00
EID:42b3 225b7380
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3316396B
JD> KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
JD>Have you? So, what have you accomplshed with this ALLMIGHTY
JD>POWER on your side?...are you a trillionaire? Have you eradicated hunger
JD>and disease in Africa? Have you found a cure for leukemia?
JD> Is there a cure for imbecility?
Can he think, oops, you asked that didn't you.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Godless Athiests _____Compounded Redundancy Alert!____
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:39:00
EID:fbaf 225b6ce0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3316396C
NS> -=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Norman Solomon <=-
NS> LB> call those who DON'T sociopaths?) Perhaps it was buggy all along,
but
NS> LB> in tasting that forbidden fruit we were able to SEE the bugs, eh?
NS>I can only speculate, but the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, together
NS>with the tree of life were both in the Garden. The deception may well
NS>be in the area of taking it to soon, before they were really ready to
handle
NS>it. Perhaps a bit like a 5 year old taking the car keys and running
a muck.
NS>The serpent character lies, and says it God who is decieving them, and
they
NS>will become like God, they did'nt and we haven'nt. God would however
by
NS>virtue of being all knowning would have seen the outworking of this to
the
NS>end of time. Worth noticing the way back is posted as early as Gen 3:15.
How did the serpent lie ? God indicated they would die on the
day, they ate of the fruit. That they didn't die, shows that god
was wrong or at worst, lied to his/hir creation.
As another point, mankind is able to do things that have
real, results. We have yet to see any results from any god/dess.
Do let the world know, when -YOUR- God, finally does something
of note.
Don't forget, it's ' E V I D E N C E ' , NOT PROOF of Your GOD.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Convert or Kill:It's not just a good Idea,it's God's Law
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Brawley & John = Zero
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:15:00
EID:4567 225ba1e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 3316396D
SS>20 Feb 97 08:51, quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes:
> JB>> John Brawley's crackpot phrasing:
> JB>> "That distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become
> JB>> one point."
> JB> Spit it out, boys, if you know it, or admit I'm right that there are
> JB> just _some_ concepts that don't _have_ "standard math" formatting.
SS>Just what is your mathematical background, John?
Give him a 6 month lead time and maybe John's Quantum God
will shoot out the answer in shooting stars for him.
Then too, if John's on the wrong side of the ZERO
point, he will likely miss the answer.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: To prove or not to prove
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:43:00
EID:d3c4 225bb560
MSGID: 1:221/1503 331661B4
RS>As quick as I am to jump on him, I must gently correct you, Dan :)
RS>Science does not yet CONCLUSIVELY know the origins of sexuality,
RS>though it has found CONCLUSIVELY what is NOT the origin:
RS> * overbearing mother/lack-of-father psychological origin
RS> * being born on a Wednesday
RS> * being taught by a gay teacher
RS> * being hit on the head by a hammer
RS> * having a gay gynecologist
RS> * living in Minnesota
RS>...among others ;)
RS>Now, on the other hand, science has proven the origins of
RS>religion, and you do have one of the reasons firmly in grip --
RS>child indoctrination and abuse at an early age.
"proven" ????? Your sure about that ? Toss in a 'showen', then
we {me/myself&I}, can/may agree. 'evidence'
'pointed to'
'allied'
To prove, or not to prove.
Was that a Question ?
Hell if i know,
shake a brab,
and see what drops in.
+ SLMR 2.1a + Why look thru Windows? Open the door to the future: OS/2
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Kiss the fags! Make 1/
|Date: 27 Feb 97 23:27:00
EID:d58c 225bbb60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 331661B6
RS> * On 15-02-97 at 12:45, FREDRIC RICE wrote to RONALD VASS,
>> rv> My brother has a very bad time around an open gay person, and all
>> rv> i can understand is he is also afraid he maybe gay or switch at some
>> rv> time that way.
>FR> Perhaps he's been told things and -- even if he no longer
>FR> believes them -- he can't fully escape the emotional
>FR> response specifically engineered for by the homophobics
>FR> among us. Perhaps the demonization of gays has infused
>FR> itself somewhat into his psychie.
RS>The unfortunate factor of the whole Christian idea of "onward
RS>Christian Soldier" is that to raise a good army, you have to have
RS>an effective enemy.
RS>It has been heretics, witches, atheists, abortion, and now gays.
RS>After gay people, who will be the next target of the Christians?
Actually, going by my mom's report of Gord, nearly getting married
to a German girl and then it fall apart. It was many years later
I found out that the girl he was going to marry was a [ i'm guessing
on the gay part ], a cross dresser, who wouldn't have sex, till
married. Time slot... early 60's to mid 60's. Small town, though
a big male, in the army, two years later in the old country.
I would guess[his mind], and it's only a guess. If a male can go for a
women or what appears to be a women, and it's really a man. Well , that
man, must have a homo taint or something, within him. If so, then
i did at one time, act like a fool over what i though was a knock out
women. Till i saw it, I didn't know a male could make such a GREAT
Looking Women.
Now as to if that male, who wasin the show was gay, that too, is another
question. Sure did make a good looking chick though. I've never
figure out where all the excess baggage, was hidden. Man, thats got
to hurt.
RS>Homosexuality is their biggest money earner at the moment. Since
RS>it earns heaps of money to the big purses of the church leaders,
RS>naturally they bring it up at every possibility.
RS>And the old adage -- if you repeat it over and over again, even
RS>if it is not true, it becomes "truth" -- is apparent.
The Christians are just takeing a lesson from that other
good Christian, Hitler. He showed a lie, repeated offen enought
-is/will be- accepted as truth after a while.
RS>To the average person, gay equals pedophilia, or sadomasochism,
RS>or crossdressing, or any one of a number of mischaracterisations.
Gay male --- homo man === pedophilia in this local. If a homo??
well you just attack kids, usually very young boys. No way can
people keep apart the difference or perhaps they don't want to.
To show them that Hetro males are more offen the offender is
just brush aside as a very rare happening.
The church is likely the offender here, after all, would
a priest lie about a fact like that ... in a CHURCH, the
house of god. I can't speak for all church, but have heard
sermons along this line when i was still attending church.
+ SLMR 2.1a + X-rated tagline: Press Ctl-Alt-Del to view.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: President Truman tours
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:35:01
EID:a07b 225b6460
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519eb6
TID: GE/2 1.2
JD> Why should anyone beleive anything posted by you, after
JD> you claimed to have strolled around Mt. St. Helens with
JD> "former President Harry Truamn" a decade AFTER Truman died!
LA> You seem to be more persistent in leaving me messages than
LA> seems realistic.
But a tour of Mt. St. Helens by "former President Harry Truman"
DOES seem realistic to you? Say, did you get his autograph, too?
LA> Perhaps you are desperately crying out for something to get
LA> your "teeth" into and there is really something "troubling you"?
Laughing at you is no trouble at all, Mr. Appleton.
Tell us another one!
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Helpless Moron.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:35:02
EID:d39d 225b6460
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519eb7
TID: GE/2 1.2
LA> How does natural selection work UNTIL you have an already
LA> living animal that produces offspring,
Whenever there are (potential) self-replicating processes, natural
selection "works" for the following reason:
Those processes which happen to replicate themselves (or some
variation of themselves) best in their current environment will
be more common in succeeding generations of the process. This
applies even to processes that are not "already living animals."
Or even "already living plants" -- you appear to have neglected
most life on earth with your absurd restriction of natural selection
to animals only.
So, are you just plain ignorant, or are you WILLFULLY ignorant?
LA> "Once we see, however, that the probability of life
LA> originating at random
Gee, Liar Appleton, who ever claimed that life "originates at
random?"
Since you have the deserved reputation of ripping things out
of their context, it comes as no suprise to anyone that you would
refer to "probabilities" completely devoid of the context of the
sample space of possible outcomes which lies at the foundation
of any probability claim.
LA> So, enormously complex codes like DNA do not arise by
LA> chance ramdon processes,
Are you still so afraid of the truth that you must hide behind
these deliberate distortions of what others actually say?
There is a world of difference between "random chance" and
"natural selection."
Kindly do yourself a favor, Laurie, and acquire a decent secular
education. Quoting mindlessly from creationist tracts does not
help you to think intelligently.
If you are capable of experiencing shame for your neverending
stream of posts awash in your pitiful and well-known intellectual
dishonesty, then I can only feel sorry for you.
Perhaps this guilt is what drives you to your superstition?
Or is it your superstition, rather, that drives you to such deception?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:35:03
EID:17b5 225b6460
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519eb8
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Martin Goldberg
MG> OK...name this sceintific evidence. Where in the field
MG> of molecular biology is there any evidence for a creator.
DR> The evidence is right in front of you everytime you look
DR> through a microscope. Look at a cell. I mean look at it
DR> real close, Martin. And tell me that you really believe
DR> that it is an accident.
Are you suffering, then, from the illogical delusion that everything
must either (1) be created by conscious design, or else (2) be an
accident?
Is there no room in your limited cranial crawlspace for considering
alternatives to this false dichotomy?
DR> You seem to be trying to lure me to conversations containing
DR> complexities that you have the upper hand on.
That would appear to be any topic that calls for logical thought.
DR> I know enough about science in general to know that that it
DR> cannot yet prove or disprove evolution _or_ creation.
If it's proof you desire, may I assist? Proof lies in the realm
of math, not science. The term you are groping for, David, is
"evidence," and it clearly favors biological evolution. Martin,
being gracious, asked you to name even a shred of evidence for
that creationist dogma you cling to without reason. Your answer?
"Look at a cell in a microscope, and just believe!" ROFL!
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:35:04
EID:5564 225b6460
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519eb9
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Dan Ceppa
DR> Actually, I am a Major. Fur real, dude. BTW, come to Louisiana
DR> and commit a felony real soon, ok. :)
Is thinking logically a felony in your state? Perhaps that accounts
for your unfortunate condition.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: 1/2 Fundies
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:35:05
EID:5359 225b6460
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519eba
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> ROFL! Your unwarranted bravado is most amusing. Please continue.
DR> Your unwarranted and unwanted post
Poor baby. I see you snipped the context (Don Martin was making
mincemeat of your inane babbling, which inspired you to engage
in still more ridiculous and empty posturing). Entertaining stuff.
DR> is most sickening.
If you are feeling ill, I advise you to seek professional assistance.
Here, you inspire mainly laughter.
DR> Please get probed.
Let me guess: You're Christian?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: RICK MCFARLANE
|Sub: Scurvy
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:50:06
EID:5c87 225b8640
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519ebb
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Laurie Appleton
RM> Let's take an in depth look at a detail, Laurie. Let's talk
RM> about scurvy. How come God made us so that we get scurvy
RM> if we don't get enough vitamin C, but He made almost all other
RM> mammals so that they can manufacture their own vitamin C if
RM> they need to?
Couldn't Baha'u'llah manufacture his own vitamin C?
How about the Bab?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:50:07
EID:355a 225b8640
MSGID: 1:3603/210 3c519ebc
TID: GE/2 1.2
JS> I could use all the $$$ help I can get. A high energy music
JS> ministry cannot be effected from a wheel chair or crutches.
You will do better if you panhandle in church. The sheep are more
accustomed to being fleeced, whereas here you are clearly seen
as a pious beggar in search of a handout.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: David Ragland & god?????
|Date: 28 Feb 97 07:00:38
EID:162c 225c3800
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331682f1
REPLY: 1:221/1503 3316396A
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Ronald!
Jovis dies February 27 1997, Dixit Ronald Vass ad All:
DR>> So, you sit a world away and do through a keyboard that which you
DR>> are too petrified to do in face to face scenarios. You can continue
to
DR>> do so because of _real_ men like me, by the way.
ROFL! Sounds like a line of Mattel action figures, this "_real_ men."
"_real_ men come with Bible and pacifier. Batteries not necessary, just
wind 'em up and they go!"
RV> If's it not .... I'm brighter the you
RV> I'm a Real True Christian
RV> I'm a black belt in laughts
RV> now we get to 'me and mine' kicking down the doors for -something-
I bet he isn't giving out any cans of Vernors.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Conversion
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:33:40
EID:8b56 225b6420
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 4c0d8845
REPLY: 1:170/551.0 160b6852
On (26 Feb 97) Karl Schneider babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> KS> MB>what he saw in god, there is no salad bar involved. There
MB> KS> MB>is merely an understanding that when Man concluded he had
MB> KS> MB>found god, he was often mistaken.
MB> KS> I think it's a bit more like "when that *other* guy found god,
MB> KS> HE was mistaken..."
KS> MB>That's true with most of the lot we get in here, but I'm not sure
KS> MB>how true it is in general.
KS> Er, I meant, by 'he, the 'other guy'. Not sure but I suspect you
KS> thought I was saying I meant 'god'...
KS> Either way....
I understood you to mean the other guy. I'm still not sure
that is true in general, although it is certainly true of the
tribe we get in here, by and large.
I see the scriptures as a journal of man's search for god.
The fact that the picture painted of god in the OT is so
primitive in the earlier books, then gradually evolves into
a more fully-formed figure bears this out. Also, the total
difference between the "personality" of the OT god and the
NT god speaks stronly to a evolution in man's perception
of god as time passes.
The more rational believers see our perception of god as
still evolving, and that we will never actually "get it
right," so far as describing him goes. People with this
viewpoint don't see anything at all heretical about seeing
the bible as some sort of account of man's spiritual evolution,
rather than as a literal account of god's past actions coupled
with the totality of his instructions to mankind.
The second group are the fundies that we get in here, for the
most part. They are being silly, actually seeing god as
within the grasp of human beings in every aspect, and seeing
him as unchanging from the wrathful tyrant that he was at the
time of the Noachin Flood -- not only unchanging, but actually
like that to begin with.
A really strange bunch, IMNSHO./
... God made me an atheist and who am I to question His divine wisdom?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:14:16
EID:5147 225b81c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 4ed51dda
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a7527
On (19 Feb 97) David Ragland babbled to Marilyn Burge...
DR> MB>Regard us as people, then you can do the penguins first.
DR> Yes Ma'am.
Changing people's words in this forum is a big, bad no-no.
I know that I never said anything to you about penguins.
Change one more quote of mine, and the message, along with
the original, will be sent to the moderator. And, you can
trust me on this one: he doesn't suffer quote-changes
gladly.
Your days are numbered, if you don't knock it off NOW!
... Stupidometer: ۱ (98)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: It was Ragland who said we can't create an atom
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:26:39
EID:19c3 225b8340
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 cc062319
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: HOLYSMOKE
Date: 15 Feb 97 04:58:00 Public
From: David Ragland
To: Darryl Gonzalez
Subject: You forgot to answer
========================================================================
DG>MG> Problem is, you forgot to offer your evidence that god exists.
Do
DG>MG> you have any. Even the smallest scrap of non biblical evidence
would
DG>MG> be appreciated.
DG>MG>
DG> OK. I'll try to humor you. Any student of philosophy knows of
the
works
DG>of Socrates, right? He and many other classical philosophers realized
and
DG>believed that a God exists. These are the same philosophers whom most
DG>atheists will herald and praise as great men of understanding. (Granted,
DG>Socrates did not know of the God of Israel.)
DG>Let's hear YOUR evidence that God does not exist.
He has none. And you and I would have to _be_ God to _prove_ that God
exists. I think they are either hoping we will tire of hearing "prove it"
and leave or they want us to show them what they cannot or will not see.
They really want this because they are hoping in the depths of their souls
that they do indeed have eternal life and a chance to be something more
than
animals just as the Bible teaches us.
MG will, of course, scoff at the below argument, but let's see him refute
it.
Let's see him or anyone else prove it does not make sense by a means other
than because they say so.
Suppose two survivors of a shipwreck drifted ashore an island in the
South Pacific. Their great hope, quite naturally, is that the island is
inhabited so, they can find food, medical attention, and means of returning
home. As they push their way through the dense jungle, they encounter a
fully automated factory operating full tilt. Not a person is in sight,
but
products are being produced.
One party exclaims, "Praise God! The Island is inhabited! Someone must have
made and oversees this factory!"
"You're crazy," replies his companion. "You've been in the sun too long.
There's absolutely no reason to believe that this thing was designed and
put
together by some intelligent being. It just happened by chance over who
knows how many billions of years."
The first man looks down at his feet and sees a watch with a broken
wristband lying in the dirt. Again he exclaims, "Look! A watch! This proves
the island's inhabited!" "You've got to be kidding," retorts his companion.
"That thing is just a conglomeration of atoms that happened to come together
in that form by chance plus billions of years of random selection." Some
may
say this story uses a ridiculous line of rationale in it's endeavor to make
a
point. The response to this is that saying all the universe is an accident
is no less ridiculous!
No person in his right mind could imagine that a factory or a watch
could just happen by chance. Then how could any rational person insist
that
the universe came into existence by chance, much less that the complex life
forms on earth did so? A single cell in a leaf or in an animal's body is
thousands of times more complex that the factory and the watch put together.
The human body consists of trillions of cells, thousands of different kinds,
all working together in perfect balance. Both logic and the plain observable
evidence contradict the suggestion that we are just an accident. The only
reasonable explanation which seems reasonable is the foundational principle
of the creation model: "In the beginning, God" One thing is for certain.
Right now, even Darwin is convinced of this!
As for Biblical evidence that he spoke of...
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint:
my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue
cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of
death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have
inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee
to
help me.
Prophesy unfolds all the time. The Bible foretells of many events that
are now taking place. This miraculously goes unseen by the Zero-theists
and
Darminian Cultists. The above excerpt from Psalms is obviously a description
of what it was like to be crucified. Moreover, it was a description given
before crucifixion was even used as a means of execution. This prophesy
was
true and did take place as described. Yet they.... still do not see...
John
19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his
garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and
also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the
top throughout.
19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but
cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might
be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them,
and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore
the soldiers did.
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a I still miss my ex-wife - but my aim is improving!
+ Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
... If a deodorizer works, how do they get away with putting perfume in
it?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: It was Ken Young who said that man created leukemia
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:25:48
EID:9ff0 225b8320
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 9de0b893
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: HOLYSMOKE
Date: 08 Feb 97 12:53:50 Public
From: Ken Young
To: Dan Ceppa
Subject: Exemplifying examples
========================================================================
-> On 04 Feb 97 19:52:28, Ken Young got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> And the REASON your kind, loving, fatherly god gives leukemia to
Jd> innocent children is?
KY> I will answer that, as soon as you can prove to me that God has ever
KY> given leukemia to anyone..
DC> According to your mythos, your god created everything. Therefore,
DC> he is responsible for the fact that children get leukemia.
God created everything, but gave us the ability to screw up and create our
own
problems, including leukemia. God did not create leukemia, but more than
likely, mankind did.
-+- Maximus 3.01
+ Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
... I'm having a hard time swallowing this. Can I have a dogma bag?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:51:36
EID:28d5 225b8660
MSGID: 1:123/67 3315bc53
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 95aad360
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
25 Feb 97 21:02, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
SS>> What about a point on a curve, Bait Boy?
JB> Curve is line.
SS>> Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
JB> Functions and limits?
No, an instataneous rate of change, just like I asked. This is commonly
known as the derivate of a function, not limits or a function. You do
know what a function is, don't you? Repeat after me...for every value
of x there can be one and only value for y.
JB> Oh, you don't want to start _that_ shit here, do you?
Oh, I'll probably start any sort of shit I please.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:57:06
EID:a7f8 225b8720
MSGID: 1:123/67 3315be2b
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 a34e2baf
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
25 Feb 97 21:03, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB> Limits are excuses, made necessary by a need to avoid "infinitesimal"
JB> increments of motion or time.
Motion or time? Not all limits involve infinity, John.
JB> You seem able to write some calculus;
JB> you should know that.
I am little rusty, but I do remember taking and passing 15 hours of
college engineering calculus (not the sissy business course),
differential equations and a couple of other upper level math courses.
That was in the late 60's but I don't think things have changed that
much.
JB>> Spit it out, boys, if you know it, or admit I'm right that there
JB>> are just _some_ concepts that don't _have_ "standard math"
JB>> formatting.
SS>> Just what is your mathematical background, John?
JB> Who gives a damn? Surely not you.
JB> I got straight 'A's in HS geometry.
I see.
JB> My question has apparently no answer in math, and barely is
JB> addressable by topology. Some have said that claim's bogus; now we're
JB> seeing it isn't.
I got in late on your question, but it seems that most in here disagree
with you.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:03:11
EID:6f03 225b8860
MSGID: 1:123/67 3315be68
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 1da8e19e
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
25 Feb 97 21:01, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB>> irrationality of the claimee.
SS>> Do I celebrate a birthday for my 6 mo. old grandchild? How many
SS>> years old is he, John?
JB> One-half.
No, John. He is ZERO years old.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauce
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:16:26
EID:0fc8 225b6200
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3315cbdc
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 27cc4bfe
Curtis Johnson said "Al Debunks Applesauce" to Don Martin,
adding:
CJ>> Now you say it's philosophy began with Sophocles. I'm
CJ>> awaiting for you to justify this on the ground he wrote dialogue.
DM> He DID! I can refer you to the dialogue betwixt Oedipus
DM> and Tiresias in Oedipus Rex, by all accounts written by
DM> Sophocles.
DM> "Euripides?"
DM> "No, they just tore by themselves."
CJ> "Don't lie to me--you were making room for Aeschylus."
CJ> BTW, I recommend to all "The Clouds" by Eurpides. It's a
CJ> satire on Socrates. Very unfair--and still funny.
Much confusion with things Greek around here --
Aristophanes wrote "The Clouds". The good news is that Al
Schroeder has gone away. When we actually _get_ some mail,
there isn't so bloody much of it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Spam Me Big Boy!
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:24:04
EID:3c75 225b6300
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3315cbdd
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 27cdd864
Curtis Johnson said "Spam Me Big Boy!" to Katherine Wintersnight,
adding:
CJ>>CJ>> He's still ranting in R-RELIGION (and I'm still unable to
CJ> The latest on Ken Wiens is that he said he applied for a
CJ> job at Microsoft.
He and Gates deserve each other.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: The Fetal Ralph
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:37:02
EID:3975 225b64a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3315cbde
Judith Bandsma said "Cheese Whiz" to Jim Staal,
adding:
LB> I want the URL, Jim. I'm almost guaranteeing it was a pro-life site.
JS> Trust me, it wasn't. It was in a place I had no business being...
JB>
JB> So that's why you won't give her the URL or at least a site to start?
JS> Evidnece????
JB>
JB> Read the fucking law, Jim. Abortion on request is ONLY allowed during
JB> the first 3 months of pregnancy. It is permitted during the second 3
JB> months under certain conditions. Abortion during the last 3 months of
JB> pregnancy is NOT allowed under any circumstances EXCEPT to save the
JB> life of the mother.
JB> Oh, and Lynda found one where Ralph Reed was showing the 'aborted'
JB> fetus of a TUBAL pregnancy...
JB> In case you didn't know, an implantation in the fallopian tube will
JB> NOT *ever* result in a birth. There is no room for growth there. The
JB> tube WILL rupture, causing the death of both the fetus and the woman.
JB> But they are going to lobby to end this procedure, too?
Me, I always thought that Ralph Reed was the result of a
tubal pregnancy. Or an overdose of Ex-lax.
Later you say to that dew-fresh loon, David Ragland,
DR> Your care is expressed in your response, Jezebel.
JB> Gentle reminder: It's not really safe to fuck with the Harpies.
Er, what about _consenting_ harpies?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: You forgot to answer thi
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:42:52
EID:1694 225b8540
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3315ffdc
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e6fca
MB> get laughed clear outta here.
ky> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not
ky> have the best success in laughing the Christians out of
ky> here..
RS> And that's a pretty good thing, considering that it is not
RS> our goal. If all the Xtians left, who would we have fun
RS> with? We WANT you Xtians to stay so that we can taunt you
RS> continually. We're having fun . . .
Glad you find superior intellect so amusing. Well, if my brilliance can't
help you learn more, I guess it's good if it can at least bring you some
laughter..
ky> My evidence is merely the fact that we did not just appear
ky> out of nothing. Logic says that something must have
ky> created us.
RS> What created your Deity? Logic, again, says that something
RS> must have created it, to follow YOUR reasoning [sic].
Nope.. The difference is we are mortals, while God is of the supernatural.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:46:20
EID:1f5a 225b85c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331600ac
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 330e70bc
KY> was naturally intended.
DW> Then why must we eat?
KY> Come on, a little intelligence would be nice.
RS> He can have yours. You're not using it.
Sure I am, I guess it is just too complex for you to comprehend.
RS> What kind of a father starves his children, even until they
RS> die, just because of a difference of agreement? You still
RS> haven't answered me on why your Deity allows its children to
RS> starve.
RS> Face it . . . IF it exists, it's NOT a good father.
He does not make anyone starve. Blame people for that.. But He won't force
feed anyone either..
Because we have made it clear we want to do things our way and not His,
so He is giving us the chance to prove how well we can run the world without
Him.
RS> ... According to Ken Young, Genesis encourages drug use if they're natural
Hmm.. I didn't even see any replies to that one.. Well, that is just where
I lean towards, on that particular issue..
ANd I never said ENCOURAGES. I just said that there may be nothing wrong
with it, if used properly, of course.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 27 Feb 97 16:56:10
EID:7eb8 225b8700
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331602fa
REPLY: 1:3603/210 387ebc72
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better.
KY> They were still around, but who needs to advertise
KY> their sexual orientation?
RC> So you've never kissed a girl (or boy, whichever you prefer)
RC> in public, since that would be advertising your sexuality?
I see I have been misunderstood. I do not mean there is anything wrong
with public affection for each other. Even with gays, though it may make
me uncomfortable, that should be allowed, and I do not see it as pushing
their ideas down anyone's throat.
Rather, what I am speaking of is those gays that make a scene about being
gay and those that make a point of telling everyone their sexual preference,
when there is no need. FIne, if you are a guy, kiss your boyfriend, has
disgusting as I might think it is. But just don't try to plug your lifestyle
wherever you go, and that goes for any sexual preference..
RC> The world will be a better place, I think, when self-righteous
RC> prudes quit advertising their bigoted prudery.
If you mean against homosexuality, most don't until homosexuality is shoved
in their faces.
But yes, I do believe you will get your wish. There will come a day when
everything immoral will be viewed as moral, and will be tolerated completely.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:02:24
EID:a224 225b8840
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33160470
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1a8ac511
FR> Why in the hell would a Wiccan even
fr> THINK about marrying a Christian?!!!
ky> Uh, just a wild stab at it, but how about love?
FR> A more accurate possibility would be ignorance, you evil shit.
Well, love is a very powerful thing, and you cannot always say who you will
fall in love with. Not that I believe in marriages of mixed faiths, because
I don't. But a Pagan and a Christian could fall in love, and get married
for that reason.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:05:34
EID:a839 225b88a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3316052e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33104f6c
-> On 20 Feb 97 20:08:58, Ken Young got back to Roger Hunter
KY> CHristians believe in a god. This clearly is saying that anyone that
KY> believes in a god is a dogmatic moron.
DC>
RH> Sounds reasonable to me. What's the problem??
KY> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that we are the most
KY> superior beings out there.
DC> Of course it's arrogant. But, that's just another trait of
DC> being an xian.
Wait.. You just admitted that it is arrogant to believe that we are the
most superior beings out there. But Christians don't believe that, atheists
do.
Christians believe there are many beings far more superior than them..
They are spiritual beings.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:10:52
EID:1c94 225b8940
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3316066c
KY> WIth Jonestown, he was a kook, went against the Bible
KY> (so likely wasn't even a Christian) and there is reason
KY> to believe he didn't kill anyone.
DR> Jonestown: the Fundamentalist Christian preacher who ran
DR> the join, Rev. Jim Jones, was once an Assemblies of God
DR> minister who later became a Children of God minister. He
DR> and his Christian upper management goons poisioned and /
DR> or shot over 900 people, 300 of which were children. In
DR> fact, most were gunned down. I have the photographs of
DR> the bodies.
I know, the autopsy reports say the same thing. But was it Jim Jones that
killed them? Especially since he died of gun shot wounds himself..
KY> And with Waco, unless you think the government is
KY> solely made up of Christians, that is far from an
KY> example of violence in the name of God[sic].
DR> Since the Branch Davidians and Janet Reno were and are
DR> Christians, your special pleading is specious.
Interesting statement, considering the fact that Janet Reno has said that
Christianity is a cult.
The Davidians may have been Christians, the government isn't.
DR> I can produce, at a moments notice, several documented
DR> cases of Christians who have reciently rape, murdered,
DR> and tortured people. Hell, I've already done so and sent
DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
DR> accept the Truth.
I have never denied that some that CLAIM to be Christian, have committed
violent acts, but those acts would go so much against Christian beliefs
that they could not be Christians.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:18:38
EID:1948 225b8a40
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3316083e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330a9cc6
KY> KY> FR> every one of them Christian.
KY> KY> All hate organizations? Even Focus On the Family?!?
KY> RS> Ever seen any of their anti-Semitic ranting?
KY> No. Have you?
RS> Yes. :) Have you?
I already said I haven't.. And if you have any, feel free to post it.
I may not agree with them on everything, but I cannot believe they hate
anyone, let alone Jews, considering the biblical significance to Jews..
KY> JUst because they have moral problems with one's lifestyle,
KY> means they they are full of hate?
RS> No. The fact they seek to publically sanction through laws and
RS> citizen referenda to deny rights is a sign of hate.
And what about those Christians who are against what they see as immorality,
but still do not want laws on it?
I will admit, many Christian groups like Focus on The Family, The Christian
Coalition and others do go way too far. In my opinion, they are right morally,but
laws are not going to change how people think. The immorality will still
be there, and possibly even more so.
KY> Besides, did we forget about how many here, have an
RS> anti-Christian stance?
RS> No, we didn't. You certainly are in the lion's den :)
So, do you HATE Christians?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:26:10
EID:1948 225b8b40
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33160a02
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa70c
RS> * On 11-02-97 at 00:44, KEN YOUNG wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT,
RS> on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> But, why is it okay for people to be against Christians,
KY> but not for one to be against homosexuality?
RS> I have a justifiable reason to be against *certain* Christian
RS> oppressions. Homosexuals have never sought to remove the rights
RS> of Christians through citizen referenda like Christians have
RS> sought and SUCCEEDED to remove the rights of gays through ballot
RS> measures.
Well, what rights have Christians actually taken away from homosexuals?
I think it would be wrong for polticians to dictate a morality, as people
aren't always going to share the same morality. But, if the people vote
it in,themselves, that is another story..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:29:32
EID:1948 225b8ba0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33160acc
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa786
KY> KY>homosexual sex, we would have been
KY> KY>made differently.
KY> KW> Odd. The homosexuals don't seem to have any
RS> problem getting parts to
KY> KW> fit.
KY> Have you asked them?
RS> I wouldn't know, but since you seem to want validation to the
RS> question you posed. Yes, the bits fit quite nicely. Of course,
RS> your question was extremely male-centric, forgetting completely
RS> about lesbians, who don't have "bits" to fit together.
Which would seem to me to be kinda boring.. :)
I also personally would think with guys that it would be kind of awkward..
It is no wonder why lesbianism seems to me slightly more accepted.
RS> Most insecure males think homosexuality == male-male anal sex :)
SInce I am a guy, obviously, I would first be thinking of homosexual acts
as two guys being together..
KY> Unfortunately, people have been fooling themselves
KY> like that, for years.
RS> I'm sorry, I've never read a bible for the purpose of belief.
RS> I'm not fooling myself :) :)
You already have, probably a very long time ago..
RS> * OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
I have seen it before, but great tagline. DOn't tell me we actually agree
on something.. :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:35:44
EID:1948 225b8c60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33160c40
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa800
KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
RS> Most definitely. We still have functioning organs. Two
RS> homosexuals, one male, and one female, can have sex together and
RS> produce a baby :)
AH, but I said a couple.. A gay couple, meaning two guys or two women cannot
have a child naturally..
KY> Oh, I am using bigotry, but it isn't bigotry, to
KY> call me a "homophobic?"
RS> Yes, the correct term is homohatred.
I may hate the lifestyle, but not the inidividuals.
KY> Well, what makes you think I am afraid of gays?
RS> Because you fear them :) You hate them because you fear them.
RS> You fear difference. Homophobia is a form of xenophobia.
Really, why would I be afraid of gays? What can you do to me? Not much,
that I can see..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:58:42
EID:f1e4 225ba740
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33163bd2
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330aa92e
RS> If being gay was a mental disease, as most Christians claim,
RS> science would agree with them. It does not.
Well, I for one, never said it was a mental disease. Just a form of confusion.
Is it a mental problem? Possibly.. But a disease? That's silly.. But
then, you also probably believe that people against homosexuality think
they can catch it!
Also, if it was a mental disease, they wouldn't be able to help being gay,
and they can..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Reading Incomprehensi
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:05:04
EID:3e91 225ba8a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33163d50
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 330c76ce
KY> I would think this would be clear, but there are many
KY> examples.. I believe where it speaks of death for gays and
KY> such, it means a spiritual death. I believe that according
KY> to Genesis, that any natural drugs might be fine, under the
KY> right circumstances. I am against making laws based on
KY> morality. SHould I go on?
RS> Why don't you pick up a good translation concordance and read the
RS> section of LEVITICUS 20:13, and read that it clearly states that
RS> the meaning of the passage is in the context that it is the DUTY
RS> of the Christian to KILL gay people.
I have read the Bible, and I know what it says, and it does not say it is
my duty to kill you because of your sexual preference. ANd if it did, we
would have the grace of Christ, anyway, so it wouldn't be necessary.
And who is to say what a good concordance is, anyway?
RS> Kill a queer for Christ, Ken. It's your bible. You follow it.
RS> Remember, no backing out now. It says the same thing in the New
RS> Testament, and the NT does not OVERWRITE or DELETE anything in
RS> the OT laws :)
SO, you want me to kill you? I must say, I never had -that- request before..
And if you know, where in the NT does it say that? I can only recall of
OT passages..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: RE: "TRUE" CHRISTIAN DODG
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:14:24
EID:68f4 225ba9c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33163f80
KY> I will admit, when I first saw him, and he promoted that book, I did
KY> start seeing it that way. But now, I tend to
KY> believe a spiritual death
KY> was what was meant.
BB> So you admit that you think homosexuals should be put to death?
I thought I was clear on that. I used to lean that way. Now, I believe
a spiritual death was meant. IOW, that any relationship with God would
be harder to have.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:16:34
EID:f1ce 225baa00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33164002
REPLY: 1:3652/1 3310CC03
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Fredric Rice <=-
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation?
JH> I trust you never hug, kiss, flirt, dance, and/or hold hands
JH> with a woman in public. After all, you said above no one needs
JH> to advertise their sexual orientation.
That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically try to advance
a pro gay agenda.
KY> And, at least there were less abortions, back then.
JH> ^
JH> You left out the word "safe".|
Well, drugs might be a lot safer if they were legal but regulated, would
you be for that, as well?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:24:42
EID:dcbe 225bab00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331641ea
REPLY: 1:229/622 3312273b
DH> Wow, you're catching on. Exactly. Did you miss church on Sunday?
Yes, in fact...
KY> Nope.. Some psychology and so called scientific THEORIES disagree
KY> with me. No scientific fact disagrees with me at all.
DH> And you were off to such a good start. Evolution, for instance,
DH> IS a scientific fact. There are theories of how evolution occurs,
DH> but it is a fact. In this regard reality disagrees with you.
Okay, then help me out with this.. What evidence is there that evolution
is true?
KY> But hey, you
KY> have as much right as I do.. A gay man can marry a gay woman just as
KY> a heterosexual man can marry a heterosexual woman.. A heterosexual
KY> male couldn't marry another heterosexual male, either. See? No
KY> discrimination whatsoever. :)
DH> Now you're starting to get disgusting again.
Aw.. And we were doing so good, too.. :)
DH> And look to your own country to find out what's happening when
DH> people do not. Then decide where you want to live. Or are you
DH> against the majority allowing abortion or getting prayer out
DH> of the educational system?
If that is what the people want, fine.. As long as it is more on the local
or state level, and not federal..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 27 Feb 97 21:28:04
EID:f555 225bab80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 331642b4
REPLY: 1:229/622 33122056
RS>> Nothing about vigilante militia though :)
KY> There is nothing that says it is for the state govts. to set up. And
KY> what vigilante militias are out there? If they were as violent and
KY> irrational as some claim, there would be a lot more violence then
KY> there is.
DH> I guess Oklahoma City just wasn't violent enough for you, huh?
DH> How much violence would be required for you to consider it
DH> a problem?
And I will assume you have evidence that a militia was involved?
Any violence would be a problem, but no case of violence has ever been proven
to be the result of a militia's actions.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: 666
|Date: 24 Feb 97 14:54:47
EID:f8dd 225876c0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 331230fa
REPLY: 3:711/933 33089a11
-=> Quoting Anthony Grigor-Scott to RIC CARTER <=-
AG> Dear RIC CARTER,
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
RC> Although the mark was invisible [Magnetic or Electronic?],
AG> Neither magnetic or electronic. The mark has been since the Garden of
AG> Eden, and MOST people have it today. In the not too distant furure it
AG> will be FORCED.
AG> The mark of the beast is wisdom against faith, or carnal reasoning as
AG> Cain demonstrated. The mark in the forehead signifies one has received
AG> the DOCTRINE and the mark in the hand indicates they serve the beast.
And since I bear the Mark of Caine right now I'm beyond redemption.
Apparently the Lord saw fit to condem me at the time of my birth. So
since I'm already marked for the lake of fire, tell me why I should follow
Christ's teachings??
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Sundance Waco Movie Opens
|Date: 27 Feb 97 12:56:40
EID:cff5 225b6700
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331584b6
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3144e137
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Feb 97 08:56, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP> For those of you who asked for further information:
TP> I am JUST a writer/reviewer who feels strongly that people need
TP> to see this film,
Cool! Do we finally get to see some TANKS?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:33:28
EID:1d94 225b6c20
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33158def
REPLY: 1:124/9005 331427df
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Feb 97 11:58, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
DW>>>> Trinity Broadcasting Network has just canceled Pat Boone's
DW>>>> gospel
SQ> BTW, these guys are a LARGE reason I dumped cable TV here. I got
SQ> tired of paying money to ship their nonsense around.
Yeah, cable sucks. It beats having one of those goofy antennas on your roof,
though. :)
I wouldn't mind paying $30 a month for Discovery, TLC, and the CNN channels
alone. It irks the shit out of me that I'm also paying for all that other
worthless shit, though.
DW>> This is the same DJ who once played some song (which I
DW>> unfortunately missed) called "Hey, masturbater". Someone called
DW>> in to the studio and complained (I picked up on the story at this
DW>> point). He then ranted about her for a while, and played Denis
DW>> Leary's "Asshole" song.
SQ> Good for the DJ. Typical radio behaviour (at least where I grew up)
SQ> is to suffer a knee-jerk reaction and pull the artist's entire catalog
SQ> from airplay.
I had expected the same reaction here, actually. I figured that the guy
had just axed his career in Memphis radio. He's still there, though. Of
course, this station does carry Howard Stern's morning show, so I guess
I shouldn't really be surprised.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:37:02
EID:1d94 225b6ca0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 33158f1e
REPLY: 1:124/9005 331434ce
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Feb 97 13:02, Steve Quarrella wrote to David Worrell:
SQ>>> So what's the track list on this thing?
DW>> I don't know. I don't think I *want* to know. :)
SQ> I want to know if he did any Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin.
I'm pretty sure he did a Led Zepplin.
SQ> Remind me
SQ> to dig up my tape of "Sammy Davis, Jr. does a LZ Medley." :)
Err... no. :)
DW>> Fuck a trial. Just take 'em out in an open field, strap one of
DW>> their bombs to them, and set the fucker off. My tax dollars can
DW>> be put to better use -
SQ> Oh, how hateful! You hate Christians!
I don't hate Christians. I hate pathetic little fucks who don't know how
to employ explosives. If I was gonna bomb a building, there wouldn't be
one brick standing atop another.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:59:04
EID:031d 225b1760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314f878
-> On 19 Feb 97 14:30:00, David Ragland got back to Dan Ceppa
DR> Actually, I am a Major. Fur real, dude. BTW, come to Louisiana and
DR> commit a felony real soon, ok. :)
DR> Peace,
DR> David Ragland
If there will ever be the Perfect Twit, you are very high
on the list. Then, too, you are just high.
... David Ragland: Lord...Liar...Lunatic.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 27 Feb 97 03:09:06
EID:00f9 225b1920
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3314fad2
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:19:00, David Ragland got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>You sure are, Fuck.
DR> Forget to take your tranquilizers? Are you suffering with
No, you haven't gotten yours as yet, "Captain".
Go troll somewhere else.
... Death called while you were out, so I gave him your pager number.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Cross Posting???
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:29:05
EID:042c 225b6ba0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33158c21
-> On 25 Feb 97 09:15:13, Bryson Hughes got back to Norman Solomon
You were wondering about how American fundys think:
BH> in England yourself. I have a Messianic Jewish ministry and am
BH> always anxious to reach out to people. Even you across the sea.
He assumes that you are Jewish and should join his cult
to be saved.
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Now I can become a fundamentalist!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:46:06
EID:d8a1 225b6dc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315901e
-> On 23 Feb 97 06:31:00, David Ragland got back to Darryl Gonzalez
DR> Question: Why would a perfect garden (Eden) require tending and
DR> cultivation? (Gen. 3:15)
DR> My Answer: Nowhere in Gen. 3:15 does it say one blessed thing
DR> about tending and cultivation.
Either you re-numbered the passage or the poster had it
wrong.
Try reading Gen 2:15 and then try giving the same answer as
you did above.
... A belief in god requires rejecting thinking.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:47:46
EID:d8a1 225b6de0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33159082
-> On 23 Feb 97 06:31:00, David Ragland got back to Darryl Gonzalez
DG>Nope. Only one. The others are just myths.
DR> Amen to that, Brother! One God and one God only! The question
Seems like your Jesus must be a myth, then.
... Gilgamesh: A better written myth than Noah's Flood
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Flexible Dating.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 13:57:15
EID:a9d9 225b6f20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331592bb
-> On 26 Feb 97 03:49:28, Laurie Appleton got back to John Musselwhite
JM> The basic idea of evolution is the single most tested
JM> and studied things in the scientific world, Laurie.
LA> It must be frustrating indeed then for you to find that
Hey, Laurie, tell us about your tour of Mt St Helens with
Pres. Harry Truman. I missed that the first time around.
... 35th Rule of Creationism: Call on the 'Global Scientific Conspiracy"!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Fundyskool logic
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:10:19
EID:1173 225b7140
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331595cb
-> On 23 Feb 97 11:01:00, David Ragland got back to Jan Deboer
You are trying to clutch at straws and are doing a bad job
of it:
JD>It's up to you to support them with facts. Which hillbilly grade school
JD>did you say you dropped out of?
DR> ^^^^^^^
DR> I finished Hillbilly High thank ye! :P They taught us to leave
DR> the "ped" off of "drop" in a sentece like that thar one you just
Try reading the quote above and substituing 'drop' for 'dropped'.
It won't work, Ragland.
BTW, what's a 'sentece', ye olde student of the "English Major",
Jim Staal.
... "Life has been better since I excepted Jesus" - Jonny Vee
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:13:07
EID:6326 225b71a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33159673
-> On 25 Feb 97 10:18:16, Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander
SA> Actually, whether he does or not, he fervently hopes that YOU do not.
JS> I really hope they do. This man has quite a penchant for inventing
JS> things that I allegedly say/think.
He must work really hard, as you have never demonstated to be
remotely capable of doing the later.
... Dave. My mind. It's going. Just call me Jim Staal.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:22:05
EID:7dcc 225b72c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315988d
-> On 25 Feb 97 04:10:22, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
ky> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
RS> Well, that's not something I exactly relish . . .
DC> That' salsa can say about it? Do try to ketchup!
RS> What'sa matter, don't think I can pass mustard? I am NOT
RS> margarine-al at all . . .
DC> That was butter. I may even condiment you on your response.
RS> Oh, what a bunch of horseradish! You're just in a jam and
RS> want to preserves your reputation.
Spread-ing it rather thin, aren't you? I'marmalade that and
won't let it go easily.
... The First Ammendment was not written on a whim.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Information and Origi
|Date: 27 Feb 97 14:27:15
EID:755c 225b7360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331599c3
-> On 23 Feb 97 08:17:00, David Ragland got back to John Musselwhite
JM> Gee... you sound like Tony Ermie or Laurie Appleliar here,
DR> I was thinking about keeping you on as someone that I wanted to talk
DR> to until that comment. I like Laurie a lot. You need your ass kicked,
DR> Goober!
DR> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hey Ricky Smith! Make tagline quote
DR> out of that one, wimp! -!-
The sugar coating you applied as cover is wearing off, troll. Best
hie thee back to the honey jar.
... David Ragland is a wimp and begs to have his ass kicked.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: The story of me
|Date: 27 Feb 97 15:26:25
EID:3466 225b7b40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315a7a1
-> On 26 Feb 97 11:02:13, David Ragland got back to Richard Smith
DR> During the last week I've been wrangling with the stubbornest pimple
DR> ever to grace my skin. Allow me to tell you about it.
Just squeeze your ears until the top of you pointy head
explodes.
... Succumb to your natural tendencies. Be hateful, boring and dull.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 15:28:41
EID:7b85 225b7b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315a829
-> On 26 Feb 97 03:44:40, Laurie Appleton got back to Damien Wellman
LA> Surely you know that most of the world's highest mountains
LA> have MARINE fossils at or near their peaks. What does that
LA> tell you about how 'high' they must have been in the past?
And, Laurie, there are many others that do not have those
deposits.
Now, tell us about Plate Techtonics, after you have told us
you story of traveling Mt St Helens with the former Pres.
... Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce-so how'd you get here?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 27 Feb 97 15:31:08
EID:7b85 225b7be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315a8bc
-> On 26 Feb 97 03:46:44, Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> The valid point is that you _are_ a moron, Laurie. Each
DC> and every one one you posts is evidence to that very fact.
LA> You are all heart and joy, little boy. Here is something
LA> for you to "chew on" while you are playing with your toys;
Yes, Laurie, you evidence your idiocy once again.
Now, tell my about your walk with Truman.
... "Now please state the theory of creationism." -- Dr Pepper
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Dinosaur Shoes
|Date: 27 Feb 97 20:38:53
EID:8dd5 225ba4c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3315f0dd
-> On 23 Feb 97 06:28:28, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DM> I initially misread this as "Are they making new shoes of the
DM> Holyshitosaur, 30 inches from toe to heel. This one was wearing the
DM> Stride-Rite Trident Cruiser: note the separation between the
Sounds like it should have been recruited by the NBA .
DM> those of primitive Man, decked out in size 12 Florsheim EasyLife
DM> loafers. Here at the ICR, we have been unable to determine as yet
DM> whether these were the tassel, or the penny model . . . "
Finally, the ICR doing something close to being constructive.
DM> Some brain farts smell better than others.
Speaking of which, I heard on the radio that some man in
Australia cut one loose near an acetylene torch and it backfired
and blew him up from his insides out.
... With a god like Jehovah, who needs a Devil?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 28 Feb 97 01:21:38
EID:9731 225c0aa0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33163322
-> On 23 Feb 97 07:42:30, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
JS> JS> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> Sorry, pal, it is very biblical and demonstrates no hatred on my part.
Then the god you follow is a homophobic bigot, Jimbo.
... STAAL.SYS corrupted, lobotomise? (Y/N) Redundancy error encountered!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Joe Seatter
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: 666
|Date: 28 Feb 97 03:20:12
EID:b3bd 225c1a80
MSGID: 1:163/125.0 33164edb
PID: BWTG 3.11 [Eval]
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting Anthony Grigor-Scott to ROBERT CURRY
AG>> Its purpose will be to stop Communism because Russian troops
AG>> will attack and invade mainland USA.
RC> ROFL! Is it part of your dogma that the Russians are going to revert
RC> back to communism, too?
AG> Why not? Americans are Communist. And the whole of the Western world
AG> is Communist. Communism is a spirit and our governments, schools,
AG> churches and institutions are communist in philosophy and policy. Look
AG> at your President Bill Clinton, and (the policies of) our Prime
AG> Minister, John Howard. What of FDR, Trueman, Carten, Eisenhower,
AG> Wilson, Bush and their policies.
i think you need to learn the difference between social programs, and
communism...
... 'to worship' becomes 'to wag one's tail before God.' trans. Bible
--- Helter Skelter
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:8fd7 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 5d71039a
MG>MG>> DC>>> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some
MG>MG>> DC>>> things that no one should have to stomach.
MG>MG>> MG>>> It takes intestinal fortitude.
MG>MG>> DC>> I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
MG>MG>> MG>> Another high liver, I see.
MG>MG>> DC> There are one duodenum around, I think.
MG>MG>>It gets bladder and bladder...
MG> KW> That took gall, Martin.
MG>Take that back or ulcer call my lawyer.
you're quacking like a duct.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:1fdb 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org deff529e
MB>On (21 Feb 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Dan Ceppa...
MB> KW> DC>-> On 16 Feb 97 02:02:28, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
MB>DC> KY> Brine a fundy
MB>DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
MB>DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
MB>DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
MB> KW> DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
MB> KW> DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
MB> KW> DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
MB> KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
MB>And without it, I'd be in the soup.
You'd relish that.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? That'd be really
self
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Oologah@worldnet.att.net
|Sub: application
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:bca2 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f47847eb
To: oologah@worldnet.att.net
Subject: application
I would like to apply for membership in the Sisterhood.
Mu URL is http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/
My home address is Katherine Wintersnight
10328 Cavalier St
El Paso, TX 79924
I was born May 13, 1958, my permanent e-mail is
katherine.wintersnight@cantina.com
and you may list me as Katherine Wintersnight
Please don't attachments the logo--my mail server at
this address dies when presented with an attachment.
My page is pagan/wiccan in nature--concentrating on the
common sense questions that many of the available source
materials overlook.
Thank you for considering me.
Katherine
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Women do come with instructions, ask them!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:9e87 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7bd86ef4
JD> DM> Jd> Jan deBoer Oshawa, Ont. Defrocked Agnostic 3 years
JD> DM> Jd> Canada Intermittent
JD> DM> Jd> at whim of
JD> DM> Jd> Xtian Sysops
JD> DM> What _I_ want to know, is who is _frocking_ agnostics
JD> DM>these days? Or is this just a Canadian thing?
JD> KW> I'd like to know if cross dressed agnostics is a custom up there,
JD> KW> or if the donning and stripping of the frock is a new thing.
JD>Derives from the great Scottish kilt mystery.....what does an agnostic
JD>wear underneath the frock?
Is there a proper undergarment, or do you all run around swinging free
under your skirts like proper Scots?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Wrappers are futile, Chocolate will be assimilated!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: "flat earth" town
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:53a5 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 01e563dd
JH> -=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Dan Ceppa <=-
JH>KW> Here, they also devote great gouts of class time to addressing the
JH>KW> hows of taking a test and test anxiety. If they would just
JH>KW> stop worrying about that test, and get on with letting the teachers
JH>KW> teach they would probably get better scores.
JH> This year we have two new classes at the high school. One has the
JH> nice preppy name of "Freshman Focus." What do they do to fill up
JH> a semesters worth of hour-and-a-half classes? Well, they take a tour
JH> of the school the first day, talk about building good study habits,
JH> do the obligatory section on drugs, and then the rest of the class
JH> is basically a study hall. This was told to me by my sister, who is
JH> made to take this class whether she likes it or not.
How 'progressive'. I take it this is the School Administrator's bright
idea?
JH> The second new class (which freshman and sophomores also must take)
is
JH> School-to-work. I don't have to take the class, but they stuck me in
JH> there anyway and refuse to let me out. Anyway, what are we supposed
to
JH> learn in there? Last year when I asked that question I was told we
JH> would learn how to apply for a job interview and how to fill out an
JH> application. When I asked what else, they tended to ignore me.
JH> Now I know why.
Well...after some of the job applications that I've seen maybe something
like this is needed. I don't think that they should need a whole
semester to teach it though. One class should be all that it should
take.
JH> So far this semester all we have done is take tests to measure
JH> our communication and assertiveness skills.
JH> And this class is going to be a required course.
What a silly waste of time.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * YAK SHAVING DAY!!! YAK SHAVING DAY!!! :)-QF
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Profanity 01/
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:01ef 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b3234f24
RV>>RV>
RV>>RV>KW>(Continued to next message)
RV>>RV>Must be the power of the LORD...... As per usually...just as you
RV>>RV>really get a good head of steam, we hit a -continue to next...-
RV>>RV>and like a women. We're left hanging. Dam...dam...dam... pardon
RV>>RV>my french, dear lady.
RV>KW>Honeybunch, it's usually the woman who gets left hanging. Anyway,
I'm
RV>Right. I've heard that statement from some women.
And you admit it???!??
RV>KW>sorry that your feed has a taste for intellectual coitus interuptus--if
RV>KW>you'll get an e-mail address I'll be happy to send on any 'hanging
RV>KW>ends'.
RV>If as a F E M A L E . { ahread of time } You would
RV>every get that reader/replyer to work correctly, those of us, at
RV>this end wouldn't have this problem of Katherine wit, vanishing off
RV>into the never/never land of modem bits&bytes.
RV>Perhaps you should find a male to set it up for you. [ dam if that
RV>doesn't get a pie, nothing will ]
It wouldn't have, as a male did set up the BBS, and most of my troubles
with my home system are caused by another male's habit of creatively
killing the computer.
The problem does seem to be with La Cantina--as I haven't had this
problem with other BBSs. Will is a sweet dear man, who is almost as
talented as Bear at finding 'new' ways to get the computer to do things.
RV>>RV>Don't you just wish for a date with that good Christian.....
RV>>RV> BANG %$@ BONK *$@! CRASH &^(@#$% THUMP.....
RV>>RV>S O R R Y .... shit women, can't you take a joke. Here have some
RV>>RV>chocolate fudge. Dan gave me a new recipe to try out.
RV>KW>The last guy who tried that on me found out that I'm at my most
RV>KW>dangerous barefoot and in the kitchen.
RV>I do love my ladies in the kitchen. Lean into the sink a little
RV>more my dear and spread those legs.
I'm not the one doing the dishes around here. I'm the one
playing with the knives.
RV>Yup. I agree, the kitchen is a danger area for women, then to
RV>it's a danger for males, also. Mistress J. is copying my bad habits.
RV>Meals left uncooked and dishs unwash.
Sounds like you need to get to work. Bear and I have a very simple
agreement--I cook, he cleans up afterwards. Of course, he does get
upset when I get into a french mood and dirty every single pot and bowl
in the kitchen turning out a simple little veal stew. On the other
hand, he's been offered upwards of $20 for a plate of leftovers at work,
and turned it down.
RV>>RV>He told me, it really gets the women ....Running.... or something
RV>>RV>like that.
RV>KW>I think I know the recipe that you're talking about--would you like
me
RV>KW>to send you a batch? I'll even put chopped pecans in it for you.
RV>Please do. All food comeing into the house gets a taste test
RV>by Mistress J. Pies & cakes rank at the top of her list. If i'm
RV>not here, i lose out. ie: any ill effects happening, you will
RV>have a women hunting you down. Down though the ages of time,
RV>I've learn one thing. NEVER, NEVER every get a women mad at you.
Sounds like it's time to send 'you' a chocolate raspberry pound cake.
I'm sure she'll tell you about it. . .
RV>There is no meaner creature.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Yer not a figment of MY imagination:I'd have done better!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Fat People
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:965a 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a3b683e1
RS>KW> RS>Oh, I think it is both, Katherine :) :) I've had run-ins with
RS>KW> RS>him on Usenet Newsfroups. He's so fun! Especially when he turns
RS>KW> RS>into 100% crackpot mode :)
RS>KW> He's been doing that a lot lately . Then when the resulting heat
RS>KW> starts getting to him, he makes a silly and obvious attempt to change
RS>KW> the topic--and he still can't answer a question to save his life.
RS>Yep yep yep yep *nodnod* I agree! :) I loved the way I had him
RS>on the run about his "oh so powerful God" and then he was turning
RS>around and telling me I should have done something to help
RS>Gwenny! What a hoot!
Well, he somehow managed to give the impression that his 'god' was about
as powerful as a not yet born man. And that was the only part of
the issue that he was able to even face to address.
RS>KW> RS>KW> Well, for some reason he finds my web page
RS>KW> RS>KW> 'frightening'. Yes, he's
RS>KW> RS>KW> a lightweight.
RS>KW> RS>Oh, I think he makes people think that. Then he plays heavy
RS>KW> RS>until he realises he's made himself look like a fool. Then he
RS>KW> RS>takes a powder.
RS>KW> Last night he was getting horridly offended at a link on my page,
one to
RS>KW> a site that lists christian atrocities. he thought it was terribly
RS>KW> unfair that such lists exist--after all, all those xtians weren't
real
RS>KW> true xtians.
RS>He should pop by and see some of MY links :)
RS>There's some riotously funny links among them :) :)
RS>Did you show him http://www.christiangallery.com/ by any chance?
Oh, he's stomped out after getting his weeny little feelings hurt--Lynda
won't paddle him.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Yes, I'm back. Want to MAKE something of it?-AS
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Warring Christanic Fa
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:9eba 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 12227ab0
RS>KW> JB> KW> So Bear's still ahead of Leo.
RS>KW> JB>You are right. Leo can at least hold a screwdriver without puncturing
RS>KW> JB>himself or others.
RS>KW> Oh, Bear can hold the screwdriver. He can even use it with relative
RS>KW> safety to everything but the item he's putting a screw into. But
he's
RS>KW> guaranteed to get at least one part on backwards or upside down.
RS>I remember the tape drive incident :)
Welllll...Ron Vass says I should let a man do it.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * YHVH does tend to be more of a voyeaur--RS
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:cc83 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f39c36d5
KY>@SUBJECT:Why do you NEED to be saved?
N
KY> DW> 07 Feb 97 00:26, Ken Young wrote to Martin Goldberg:
KY> KY> Also, and this is not proof, but rather an
KY> KY> interesting possibility, there have been many to say they heard
KY> KY> torturous screams of agony when they dug too deep
KY> KY> in the earth.. Now,
KY> KY> if that is so, could it be Hell? If not, what are
KY> KY> those sounds coming
KY> KY> from?
KY> DW> I wanted to make damn sure you saw this :)
KY>Yeah, like the theory that we came from apes, sounds any better.
"Brother, thy tail hangs down behind".
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You can lead a fool to logic, but you can't make him think.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:0bf6 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1c05881b
KY> MB> Are our public schools actually doing that poor a job?
KY> DC> As the xians try more an more to ruin the school system, I
KY> DC> can only say yes. I think it was Don Martin that pointed
KY> DC> out that the current average reading level of adults in this
KY> DC> country is about the 6th grade level.
KY>Christians?!? I keep on saying you people aren't this stupid, but it
is
KY>seeming more all the time, that I have been wrong. It is the liberal
KY>atheists and several occultists that have ruined the school system, but
KY>forcing their beliefs down the kids' throats.
KY>Yep.. The education system has really gone down the tubes.. And could
it
KY>possibly be because we have taken all traces of Christianity out of the
KY>schools?
Odd, the schools really began to go down the tubes about the time that
the xtians started with the stealth campaigns to get xtian fundy nuts on
the school boards.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You did *WHAT* in my name?!! -Yshua bar Miriam
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:4e7d 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6187c580
KY>Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
KY>Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still around,
but
KY>who needs to advertise their sexual orientation?
KY>And, at least there were less abortions, back then.
Sorry, dear, but women have always found ways to loose a baby they were
determined not to bear. The main difference now is that they can do so
in relative safety (safety as long as a gun welding xtian nut isn't
around).
So you want to go back to a way of life where over half the population
lives in silence and pain to maintain the empty appearances that make you
happy. Lord and Lady, but you're a selfish little man, aren't you?
Did it ever occur to you that if you just treated the gays like the
people that they really are, you wouldn't be forcing them to fight for
their lives? What you're really whining about is the fact that some
people just wont shut up and let you abuse them. They insist on being
people, and that flies all over you.
Maybe you should sit yourself down and get to the bottom of why you feel
so blighted threatened by the gay couple down the road being able to
settle into a life long committed relationship. Why are you so worried
about it, anyway--it's not like they're holding a gun to your head and
forcing you to join them in their marital bed.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You folks telling me that intolerance is a Traditional
Family Va
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:4974 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2b826266
KY> RS> don't know the name of your God?
KY> KY> Yep. His name is God.
KY> DC> 'God' is a job description. What's his name?
KY>Nah.. His job is "Lord," one of His names is God.
Oh. You worship Beelzebub.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You have the right to swallow live banana-slugs.-Ric C.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 27 Feb 97 02:55:00
EID:60ae 225b16e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 5d2f29aa
RS>KW> RS>KW> Find a man's greatest fear, and exploit it.
RS>KW> RS>Again 100% on the mark. Someone should honestly feed the
RS>KW> RS>PromiseKritters a 100% honest-to-chocolate harpy pie! :)
RS>KW> Why bother--as they don't seem to be capable of understanding the
why of
RS>KW> it.
RS>But you could make them understand *evil grin* and I'm sure
RS>they'll be visiting El Paso soon. You could start by finding out
RS>who their local "organiser" is for their local small group
RS>meetings :)
I know where they meet locally, but to tell the truth I
don't want to have anything to do with them. The local churches have
come to know me just sell enough to mostly stay away from my front door.
And I don't think that a PK type is any more capable of learning than a
pig is of singing.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You must do the thing that you think that you can not do.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelieving
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:7b93 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ecb216c4
DW>IF Katherine = Wintersnight THEN Edward Tushar ELSE Believing vs Nonbelieving
DW> KW> Oh, and don't go wailing that only xtians get bashed . Ask the
DW> KW> assorted Satanists, Muslims, Pagans, and practitioners of any other
DW> KW> religion, ism, or cultish superstitious behaviour. We catch it too
if
DW> KW> we should indulge ourselves in unsupported comments about 'Magick'.
DW> The WOAs are nothing if not equal opportunity. Everyone is bashed
DW> equally. :)
Although at times it seems if you all have a pathological need to bash
you head against brick walls.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You really want to!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:f9bd 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b65cbc07
CH>> Do you realize that by your argument, you've 'proven' the existence
of
CH>> flying invisible pink hippos, UFO's, ancent dictators binding
CH>> humanities souls in volcanos so he can blow them sky high with
CH>> a-bombs, and the super civilization of Atlantes.
CH>Well, I don't know about IPHs, but IPUs certainly exist. I've never been
CH>taken in a UFO but I do like OVNIs. Never had a clam-flashback, though.
That's because you aren't cleared for one.
CH>However, I seriously take umbrage at your innuendo that Greyface Gruad
and
CH>Lilith Velkor and everyone else in Atlantis did not exist. My friends
Hagbard,
CH>George, and Joe might have a word or two to say about that! *grin*
Uh huh, sure. And next you're going to tell us that you're the
reincarnation of Nell Gwyn.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You'd be shocked at how your neighbor makes love - Plato
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:b5ef 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org bb0913d8
MB>On (20 Feb 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> KW> Yes, Marilyn, Young really is that boundlessly stupid. He's only
MB> KW> marginally brighter than Ragland. . .maybe.
MB>Don't bet on it.
Who's stupider, the imbecile or the dolt?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * You're the reason my dog is pregnant, aren't you?!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:2ff1 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 21731c5f
JB> KW> JB>Thank you. If I can't get Worrell and company to remove my name
JB> KW> from JB>their _origin_lines_, at least I can ask that these lie(s)
not
JB> KW> JB>included in various registries.... (*grin*)
JB> KW> John, the fastest way to do that is to develop a sense of humor
about
JB> KW> the whole thing. The origin lines are funny, but the bee stung
JB> KW> howling from you is even funnier. And if I hadn't decided that
any
JB>(*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
Well, I'm bright enough not to need to try and boast about it,
Sweetcheeks.
JB>Sorry, Katherine, but the shoe's not on the foot you think it is.
JB>My sense of humor is not only intact, but is also both subtle and
JB>sometimes downright convoluted. Whom do you credit for keeping this
JB>thing alive this long? those buffoons, or me?
Them. You come off about as effective or bright as a kitten chasing a
wad of tin foil. Face it, John, you're only real recognition comes from
running a bait shop. Other than that, you're just another crank in the
crowd.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * YOUR= demonic cult: =YOU= pick up after it.--DRice
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BELIEVING VS NONBELIE
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:6e4f 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a38ec13e
RH> -=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> RH>Yes, and sometimes just because we know you're there .
RH> KW> Oh, yes, that's right. We're supposed to scream and react, aren't
we.
RH> KW> Sorry, I keep forgetting that. Male logic and all of that.
. .
RH>Hey, come on! There's a tradition to respect here.
So's chopping off the end of your dick. Your point?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Same to you..Sticks like glue...na na na boo boo...-T.L-P
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:edba 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 748b81df
RH> -=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Judith Bandsma <=-
RH> JB>have turned their backs on us and given us this drought because we
have
RH> ^^^^^^^
RH> KW> More likely the whole village would then take to the fields to 'bless'
RH> KW> them by humping in the mud.
RH> ^^^^^
RH>Wicca causes reading problems or is it a "female" thing?
If the furrow ain't wet, you're not doing it right.
RH>One thing you can say for Wicca; their meaningless rituals tend
RH>to be enjoyable in their own right!
We do have fun.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Are they dead?" - Pugsley "Does it matter?" - Wednesday
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:f16b 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2fc4d76a
DC>-> On 20 Feb 97 12:53:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> DC> DC> agree about the eating of tripe. There are just some things
DC> DC> DC> DC> that no one should have to stomach.
DC> DC> DC> MG> It takes intestinal fortitude.
DC> DC> DC>I'll save your comment for the appendix of my next book.
DC> DC> KW> The one about visceral reality?
DC> DC>That was my first gut reaction, too,
DC> KW> Hope you don't bunghole this one.
DC>Would I kidney-ou about this?
You're going to have to ex-spleen that one.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Don't dispute death unless you've lived through it."
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:9acb 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e84a20b9
DC>-> On 19 Feb 97 20:04:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> DG> all options, I looked at most of the world's major religious
systems,
DC> DC> DG> and I looked at atheism. I searched to find out which was the
most
DC> DC>Instead of just looking, try thinking. You just might accidentally
DC> KW> That is what he's very much afraid of.
DC>Which is why he settled into xianity. It's far easier for him
DC>to have his handlers think for him as he pays them his 10%
In other words, he's sold his patrimony for a mess of pottage.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Dragons live forever, but not so little boys."
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: return
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:0354 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 99f3c244
DC>-> On 20 Feb 97 12:53:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC>-> On 11 Feb 97 16:00:00, Michael Hardy got back to All
DC> DC>Other than your Shene-ism, nice to see you back. And, OOC,
DC> DC>what's your alignment this time around?
DC> KW> From his performance on IRC, it seems to be chaotic chocolate.
DC>That's good. With all the pies you have ordered lately, it
DC>would be nice to have an assistant to help me catch up.
Good help is so hard to find these days, and you will insist on testing
your recipe on the help.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:30:00
EID:088e 225b9bc0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d9594e7f
DC>-> On 19 Feb 97 20:04:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KW> I lived in a small Texas town many years ago. The Baptists were
the
DC> KW> largest group, followed by the Methodists and the Church of God.
The
DC> KW> custom in Moody was to wrap beer cans and whiskey bottles in
DC> KW> newspapers before tossing them in the trash so all the good town
folk
DC> KW> could then pretend that no one drank.
DC>They were just following the teachings of their religion's
DC>founder: "Lying for the Lord is ok".
I baby sat for one of the men who ran the local baptist church. Even
then it amused me that he kept his porn on the shelf under his bibles.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "For Reply, send a self-abused stomped elephant to..."
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:57:21
EID:7aa3 225bb720
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 bc348dbf
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32f39c60
Steve Hayes sD "Hi, s!" ˔ Ed Mills, Hs:
SH> Steve Hayes is replying to Ed Mills, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 27
SH> Jan 97 19:56:48:
EM> Sorghum is actually a mixture of meconium and corn syrup.
EM> Mostly meconium.
SH> Well, maybe the wrong term... I was talking about mabela.
EM> My dictionary no got mabela.
SH> Well my dictionary has sorghum as kinds of tropical cereal grasses
SH> including millet. And under millet it has "Gaminaceous plant, native
SH> of India, bearing large crop of small nutritious seeds."
SH> Mabela is related to millet.
I was just facetiously referring to what sorghum _tastes_ like.
Did you look up meconium?
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Demon-haunted World'
|Date: 27 Feb 97 23:03:38
EID:bf1b 225bb860
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 475fbd92
DAVID RICE sD "Hi, s!" ˔ ED MILLS, Hs:
DR> >>>DR> Well! /me is green with envy.
DR> >>>DR> With another click you could have got "Demon-haunted
DR> >>>DR> World" by Dr. Sagan.
DR> >>DW> There wasn't much point in that, since I already have
DR> >>DW> a copy.
>FR> With another click you could have bought _ME_ a copy!
EM> Is that worth a read? My attention span is abysmally
EM> short when it comes to fiction, but since it's Sagan,
EM> I'd be willing to try and force it down, if you guys
EM> says it's worthwhile...
DR> I found the book excellent. Wait roughly 10 days and you
DR> can buy the paperback version when it comes out.
Bought the paperback today. It looks good.
I was rather surprised, though, to read (in the intro) that the
good Doc Sagan was once in a fight wherein he put his fist through
plate glass. This is going to be an interesting book.
edweird
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 27 Feb 97 08:58:22
EID:7ab0 225b4740
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 312 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 160c3f2d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KD> KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KD> KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
KD>Well maybe here I can find a smidgen of agreement with you.
KD>I had to stop using Aspartame completely a year ago due to some symptoms
KD>- arthritis, my hypoglycemia going from borderline to real, photophobia.
KD>Each symptom went away within a few weeks of stopping Nutrasweet.
Probably, Karen, people can be found, somewhere, who have aversions
to just about any product/chemical on the planet. I quit using
sugar in favor of aspartame years ago and have never noticed any
negative effect. I do notice now though, that sugar seems to taste
awful and leaves an unpleasant aftertaste.
KD>Though I don't know if P&G is so heavily involved that they are to
KD>blame.
No blame. Any more than the irrational notion that airlines don't
care about safety. The guy's a nutcake.
-!-
OLX 2.2 Fundys are like baby crows. All mouth and asshole.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 27 Feb 97 08:58:22
EID:31b4 225b4740
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 312 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 160c3f2e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JB>I'm actually amazed that no one here has even mentioned the cloning
JB>success in Scotland. The very first mammal clone. SOMEBODY here should
JB>have said something by now.
Hey, *I* did!
JB>After all, you've got Scots scientists who have done something really
JB>remarkable. It's a gigglefuck, though, that the first mammal scientifically
JB>cloned was a sheep.
Poetic justice. But it hasn't sunk into the fundies yet.
-!-
OLX 2.2 Meant to buy a Seersucker suit at Cox's. I went to Sears
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: You forgot to answer this
|Date: 27 Feb 97 08:58:22
EID:b1e7 225b4740
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 312 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 160c3f2f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JB>-=> Ken Young said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Marilyn Burge <=-
JB> KY> And anyway, I am here now.. HolySmoke will never be the same.
:)
JB>ROFLMFAO! You, my dear, are a lightweight. If you left right now, in
10
JB>days no one would remember your name.
Actually, I think the name KY Jelly will be remembered quite a while...
-!-
OLX 2.2 Before computers, what did Nerds do??
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 26 Feb 97 08:59:33
EID:0f67 225a4760
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 fcd786e3
On 23 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
JB> I, by the way, saw 'zero' comments from you to me on 'which side of
JB> zero' the "zero year" was supposed to be located. Nor has a single
RH> Are you forgetting me? I seem to recall explaining that the
RH> zero year starts at the end of 1 BC and continues to the end of
RH> 1 CE. The first year is the zero year.
I know. My above came _after_ that, far as I remember. Look: if we
have a party-date question for the millennium, what would we have if we
suggested a _reverse_ party question? That is, if there has to be a
"zero year" at end 1 BCE, running to end 1 CE, when figgering the party
_forward_ in time, doesn't that mean we'd have to have a "zero year" at
start of 1 CE, running to start 1 BCE, if we were doing the same thing,
but in reverse? (Are you following me here?) That is, if you call ONLY
the period you mention, the "zero year," don't you unbalance things if
you ask about a party 2,000 years _AGO_?
You start your millennium with a "zero year," but you don't do that with
an exact reversal of reasoning. That's unbalanced, and it's why I asked
"which side of zero" the "zero year" is on.
The upshot of your claim is going to be that there have to be TWO "zero
years," one "facing forward" and one "facing backward." Do you see what
I mean? If you stand ON midnight Dec.31st 1 BCE, you can look either
forward (toward 2000 CE) or backward (toward 2000 BCE). Aren't the two
situations _exactly_ the same, from the zero POINT you're standing on?
In order to call year-numbers the way _you_ want to, you have to say
the end of 1 BCE-to-the-end of 1 CE is the "zero year," AND you'd have
to say the beginning of 1 CE-to-the-beginning of 1 BCE is the "zero
year," thus you'd have to label TWO years "zero years" --one in one
direction and the other in the other.
That doesn't make sense. Does it? ARE THERE -two- 'zero years' in
there?
JB> In arguing the same subject with another, I decided the confusion
JB> primarily arose from interaction between two separate naming
JB> paradigms, the discrete/real and the "mathematical"/continuous, in
the
JB> following short-form way:
RH> It arises because whoever assigned dates was not a mathematician.
RH> There should be a zero year.
(*grin*) "Zero year" is an oxymoron.
JB> [-3] [-2] [-1] [+1] [+2] [+3]
JB> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
JB>-3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3
RH> Your third line is how they SHOULD have named the years.
My third line is the continuous number line. (The circumflexes connect
the two series.) "A year" is not a continuous idea, as you have taken
GREAT pains to point out, with your 'how many years old is a six-month-
old?' thingie. (*grin*)
You'll note my TOP line, a _discrete_ line, has no "Zero BLOCK" at all.
Calling end 1 BCE-to-end 1 CE a "zero year" is exactly equivalent to
sticking a "zero [block]" into my top series, which is _ludicrous_.
I think you keep wanting to call the first year the "zero year" because
you keep wanting to ONLY COUNT FORWARDS. That is, if you were in the
year five BCE, you'd face forwards and count, and you'd find yourself
trying to count forwards the whole time. You can't DO that with BCE/CE
years. You have to count _backwards_ while you're in BCE, then when you
reach the end of 1 BCE, you have to _spin_around_ 180 and start
counting forwards.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Quantum mechanics do it nonlocally.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:21:07
EID:528c 225a4aa0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 78b9e901
REPLY: 1:3603/210 39e2d777
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> when you don't take him at all seriously, isn't it?
JB> Interesting observation. Pointless for you, though.
RC> Taking you at all seriously would appear quite pointless, yes.
RC> Anything else?
I said pointless _for_you_. You are not the only person in the world.
JB> (*sigh*) There's nothing new under the Sun....
JB> I been gettin' this sort of shit from people (at least some
JB> of which were less foolish than you) most of my _life_.
RC> Why is that not suprising? Go make your video, John. You're harmless.
Thank you. Jeff Sterling doesn't seem to think so....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Would a Hindu dentist transcend dental medication?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Quantum crackpot brawley
|Date: 26 Feb 97 09:22:34
EID:78f2 225a4ac0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2b95aaad
REPLY: 1:3603/210 39e2d778
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> Here we all were, taking it so _literally_! Glad you pointed
RC> that out.
JB> Formal accuracy has its uses....
RC> Indeed.
RC> Do let me know when you finally decide to try formal accuracy on
RC> the subject of infinitesimals, OK?
Why? You've already stated you won't give me any information, so what's
the point?
It's clear (been clear for quite a while) that the "formal" way of
dealing with infinitesimal _points_ does not serve me. You can't define
"point" or "line" without reference to each other. It's circular. I
can't use that. As I said, the formal system(s) in place do not have
the necessary concept-structures behind them. You have shown me nothing
different, and your use of "an infinitesimal called zero" is just plain
_ludicrous_. Sorry. You can't help me, even if you wanted to. I
suspect no one can, so long as they stay stuck in "formal" or "standard"
math, like a fossil fly stuck in amber.
RC> Those references I cited for you should prove informative in the
RC> unlikely event that you actually make an effort to educate yourself.
RC> For elementary assistance on a broad basis, try _Innumeracy_ and
RC> _Beyond Numeracy_ (both by John Allen Paulos).
Both were already on my reading list. (Not from you; from seeing them
advertised in _Science_News_.)
I take it you have decided the Berlinski book does NOT "prove
informative" for me, in a basic, remedial sense? Y/N?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:39:57
EID:f870 225a5ce0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5eab14ec
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> Well, why don't you provide your findings about the work
JB> already cited, Robert?
RC> You should have received my earlier comments already.
Have done. Your self-admitted "cursory" look seems to reveal yet more
of your blindness....
JB> I even gave you the page numbers, and so far the response
JB> from you hasn't even been a "zero infinitesimal"....
RC> Oh? What page numbers support your blaming Berlinski for your
RC> belief that Leibniz (or anyone) thought of infinitesimals as
RC> discrete entities? Please remind me. I could use another laugh.
"Laugh it up, Fuzzball":
RC> It is not my honesty that is at issue here, John, but rather
RC> where in the world you got those incorrect notions which simply
RC> do not appear anywhere in Berlinski's poorly written work.
David Berlinski; _A_Tour_of_the_Calculus_; p 100-111:
[underscores = italics in the original]
"The steady rhythmic ticking of the clock prompts Leibnitz [sic] to
imagine the sounds suspended in space; he seems to see what he hears,
each gentle tick breaking open before his eyes like a small multicolored
burst. He attends to one such burst, the sound (or the sight) marking
the moment as it arises and then perishes, and with the thumb and
forefinger of his left hand, he measures the distance between that
sound, which has already vanished, and the one to come. And for a
moment, he sits in that strange position, his right hand describing a
gentle arc, the fingers of his left hand, measuring the time, drawing
close to one another.
"Whatever the distance, he thinks, half forming the words, thinking
almost in images, it is yet _some_ distance that my hand has moved,
whatever the time, it is yet _some_ time that my fingers have measured.
Leibnitz looks closely at his own well-made hand, the left one resting
on the desk's edge, a manly network of veins running from the top of his
wrist forward to his fingers. _Aber_sicher_. To be sure. And yet
what if the distance between times were to become small?
"_How_small_? Leibnitz asks himself.
"The clock chimes, and as it does, Leibnitz taps the table-top with his
thumb. _This_is_now_, he says.
"With great delicacy, Leibnitz allows his forefinger to approach his
thumb. _Very_small_. He can sense in the skin between his fingers the
contracted space between his flesh. _Infinitely_small_.
"He sits like that for a heavy, pregnant moment.
"_Meaning_what_? The distance between times is infinitely small.
_Yes_infinitely_ small, but still, it is not nothing, that distance.
And if that distance is not nothing, _it_must_be_represented_
_by_a_number_. Not a genuine number, he thinks, adjusting his thoughts
to account for his own audacity, but a useful fiction, an imaginary
object. And it must be _smaller_ than any other number.
"Is it 0, then? No, that would make nonsense of everything, division by
zero an invitation to the black hole of meaninglessness. _Smaller_than_
_any_other_number_, _but_yet_greater_than_zero. Interesting. An
infinitesimally small number measuring an infinitesimally small distance
in time."
--------------------------
You may, or may not, read on from there, as you wish, to where Berlinski
imagines that Leibnitz (in this imaginary interpretation of his) writes
the symbol _t_, lets it stand for the time _now_, then writes
_[delta]_t_, and lets that stand for the _infinitesimal_ difference
between the time now and the next moment in time.
IF I misunderstood this, I can't for the life o' me see _where_. Looks
like Leibniz is dealing in artificially created _discrete_
infinitesimals of time and/or distance, to _me_.
So blame me? Or blame Berlinski? The above, in quotes, is _his_.
RC> Perhaps you have some other author waiting in the wings on standby
RC> to take the blame for your own personal arrogance and stupidity?
Oh, doubtless we can all locate _some_ respectable or once-respectable
"authority" to support our cherished views. Even you can do that.
RC> How long before you realize that the main result of your shoveling
RC> is simply the digging of your own grave?
Everyone digs his own grave, Robert. We die as what we became.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:10:22
EID:717c 225a5140
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 d91394cf
REPLY: 1:3603/210 39e2d77c
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> with: Mark Kimes
MK> Here's a hint: It might well be that your crackpot theory
MK> is to blame, rather than mathematics. That's certainly
MK> what the evidence indicates, anyway. :-)
JB> Define "point."
JB> Define "line."
JB> See if you can define either one without reference to the other.
JB> Find your definitional effort in a 'standard math' text.
JB> When you can't, tell me _why_.
RC> ROFL! You can't have any lines in a space with fewer dimensions than
RC> one, John. Points not only CAN be defined independently of lines, but
RC> in such cases they MUST be. A little thinking could have saved you
RC> a bit of trouble on this point.
begincopy-----------------------
Area: HOLYSMOKE
Date: 23 Feb 97 12:44:52 Public
From: Christopher Hughes
To: John Brawley
Subject: complaints
> Define "point."
A non-dimensional marker designating a location in space.
> Define "line."
The set of all points inside a plane equidistant from two fixed reference
points.
> See if you can define either one without reference to the other.
You can't.
> Find your definitional effort in a 'standard math' text.
> When you can't, tell me _why_.
The definitions of "Point", "Line", and "Plane" (some would include
"Space") fall into the set of base axioms for geometry. That is, you
_can't_ define them non-circularly. In fact, you can't really "define"
them at all. You can give examples of them, and to some degree you can
talk about them, but you can't define them independently of each other.
endcopy-------------------------
Chris seems to disagree with you, and since there's no point in asking
YOU for these points which "CAN be defined independently of lines" (as
you don't spit up info for me without getting paid, which will happen
when Hell freezes over), you can argue with _him_.
(Thank you, Chris.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:14:33
EID:528c 225a51c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2ed065d3
REPLY: 1:3603/210 39e2d77d
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> with: Dan Ceppa
RC> JB>> 6 - 8 = -2
RC> JB>> [-3][-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
RC> JB>> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
DC> Try using your 'logic' with 6 - 6, John. The answer,
DC> according to what you typed above, is [+1]
JB> Good counter. I'll think about it.
RC> So even when you're this *obviously* and *undeniably* full of shit,
RC> STILL you find it difficult simply to admit you made an error?
Wait'll you receive (or see, since I wrote it to another as well) my
escape. (*chuckle*) My zero-less infinitesimal-blocks technique works
even with your 6 - 6 = 0 example.
RC> And this is because you conquered your monstrous ego so long ago
RC> that it can hardly be noticed nowadays, right?
Yup. You're faced with interest and joy of thinking, not with
"monstrous ego." The moment _your_ overblown self-image reduces to the
point of providing a _clear_, _undeniably_irrefutable_ disproof for my
position, I'll recant. Would you? (*chuckle*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Who is this who darkens council with words without knowledge?" Job
38
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Feb 97 10:19:45
EID:528c 225a5260
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 52cfc6bd
REPLY: 1:3603/210 39e2d77e
On 24 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> I have yet, for example, to get an answer from _anyone_, as
JB> to the correct formal-math way of phrasing, writing, or using
JB> the concept "that distance, less than which, two points
JB> coalesce and become one point."
RC> Some months ago when I was humoring you, I suggested helping you
RC> with your math problems on this and other matters.
You suggest a return? You are inconsistent, if so.... Make up your
mind: help, or do not help.
RC> You stated in reply that in your proposed model, such "coalescence"
RC> is IMPOSSIBLE, so what you are looking for is not, properly speaking,
RC> a way of phrasing such a thing, but rather a way of phrasing that
RC> there is a minimum distance, d, such that no two points can be
RC> located nearer that than that minimal distance. Isn't that correct?
That is correct. But you disconnect the concepts, which should not be
disconnected like that. IOW, my needed phrase _justifies_ what you say
above; iff there is a way to say the first (my needed phrase), THEN I
can proceed to the next (your reinterpretation) without someone bitching
that I have not justified the concept 'with standard math language.'
In (my) construct, coalescence is axiomatically impossible. In order to
"build a metric," however, I _need_ that globally-applicable concept
above. (We, Roger Hunter and I, have long had a way to _write_ it, but
it's not a "standard" way, since there is no definition for it other
than the above. We write this minimum distance (or minimum separation,
if you will) as the parameter '(dmin),' usable in Roger's program by
defining it to be s certain number of pixels in the artificial, but
computer-necessary, 3-axis coordinate system of his computation space.
I can work with it; I just can't _justify_ it (to certain niggling
mathematical types around eher and elsewhere) without being able to
_phrase_ it in some 'standard' format that they will accept.
As noted, the same situation once obtained with my definition of an
"Icosahedro(not)," in that Roger and I could work with it and know
_exactly_ what it meant, but there was a lot of hollering about
neologisms and such from the math types _until_ the day I found "network
of points, of global vertex order twelve." IOW, unless I can find a
similar _standard_ 'speke' way of saying "that distance (or separation),
less than which, two dimensionless points coalesce and become one
point," I'll continue to suffer from math types hollering "meaningless!
meaningless!"
JB> That is a _critical_ underlying concept for my geotopological
JB> construct, and I can't get _diddlyshit_ from you supposedly
JB> math-aware types in here, as to a "standard math" way of
JB> saying or writing it.
RC> First state precisely what it is that APPLIES to your proposed
RC> model, and I would be pleased to provide the answer now just as
RC> I said I would back then. Perhaps this time you will actually say
RC> something meaningful in response?
I will try, despite your inconsistency in telling me you won't, now
telling me you will....
The concept of "minimum distance," which is justifiable by the concept
of noncoalescence, establishes _dimension_ in the network of vertex
order twelve. With it, plus the concept of a compressive boundary, I
can _create_ a metric (if you prefer, "manifold") out of 'nothing.'
That is, without an "acceptable" way of describing two dimensionless
points which are not the same point (not coalesced), there is no way to
justify that _dimension_ exists in the construct, when all that 'exists'
is _dimensionless_ (but "real") points.
It is my _claim_ that, given a sufficiently large number of
dimensionless points WITH this property of noncoalescence, enclosed by a
near-infinitely "compressive" spherical boundary, the geometric
configuration (3D pattern) the points fall into MUST be, and can ONLY
be, a network of vertex order twelve. The "Icosahedro(not)" is a 13-
point subset of that network, in which 12 and only 12 points surround
and contact 1 central point. (The "problem of the 13 spheres.")
NOW: within that network, there are many places between two neighbor
points where that needed concept--(dmin)-- _exists_. That is, between
the majority of neighbor-point pairs, the distance in question is
_exactly_ (dmin) --that distance less than which the two would become
one. HOWEVER, and most critical and interesting, there are also a
number of neighbor-point pairs between which this distance MUST BE
_greater_than_ (dmin) by some amount. (Proof: cf. the 'problem of the
13 spheres.')
The two sets of points, one set in which all points have (dmin) and
only (dmin) between neighbor pairs, and the other set, in which all
points have _greater_than_ (dmin) between neighbor pairs, are intimately
interpenetrated. That is, since each point has twelve and only twelve
neighbors (*), it is possible for one or many individual points to have
some of its neighbors AT (dmin) --( *minimum distance IS* )-- and some
neighbors at greater than (dmin). The two sets thus interpenetrate, at
the single-point level.
(*) This is the _simplest_ form of the network. There may or may not be
certain minor violations, in that some points may have eleven neighbors,
but that is NOT worth getting into when I'm trying to resolve something
as basic and simple as the _math_-_acceptable_ definition of '(dmin).'
Simply put: I must "mathematically justify" that dimensionless pionts
placed next to each other, but forbidden coalescence,
_manufacture_dimensionality_ in sufficiently large sets, and I must do
so within NO background space, so as to form a "naked network."
The concept of "minimum distance" establishes the possibility of
dimensionality, _without_ getting stuck in "0 + 0 = 0." ONE point has
no dimension, and cannot create it. TWO points _independently_ also
create no dimension. But two points forced toward each other, which are
_noncoalesceable_, must create a single inifinitesimal increment of
dimension (one dimension, bounded at each end by a point), which is just
that "distance" or "separation," less than which, they must coalesce.
Since they are axiomatically forbiddeen coalescence, (dmin) comes into
being as a "real thing" --a single point-bounded linear increment of
dimension --a "quantum of dimension."
I have to have a way to SAY that in standard math language, to satisfy
such niggling math types as you, who claim I can't posit the above and
still speak "math." (Which, if you'll recall, was what I told you had
to be the case anyway....)
-----
( Irrelevant: I just had a *deja vu* WRT your response.)
-----
The need to "acceptably" define and _justify_ (dmin) is independent of
my additional assumption, that the set is both spherically bounded and
compressed.)
JB> a way to say "minimum distance" without defining a
JB> pre-existing metric
RC> Do you know what a metric is, John? Do you know what you're saying?
RC> Have you any idea how funny this is?
Been there. Done that. I've had lots of practice. We can go to the
topology text if you like, for definitions of a metric. My comment
there comes from Darryl Gregorash, who once said, about my "origin
sequence" (from [NoThing]) for Tetrahedraverse, that I had NO business
talking about a "sphere" when I didn't yet have a metric. My response
was that in order to have a metric, I had to _create_ one first.
RC> Thanks for the entertainment!
May I assume this means you're just pimping me, were not serious, and
will answer either flippantly or not at all? (the *deja vu* is awaitin'
evidence....)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:11:12
EID:4c90 225a5960
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5272f25e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 3311924c
On 24 Feb 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 22 Feb 97 08:08, John Brawley wrote to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> We conflict because a) we're both egotistical in our ways,
DW> Make up your mind, John - are you egotistical, or not?
Not usually.
Sometimes reading you guys' reactions to me awakens ancient history.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... To interfere or not to interfere; _that_ is the question!
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 26 Feb 97 11:19:40
EID:4f79 225a5a60
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 e3faba62
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 1def6e00
On 25 Feb 97, Marilyn Burge wrote:
SS> Uh, pardon me...but what is a "nonexistent" number? I am familiar
SS> with imaginary numbers, but nonexistent numbers?
MB> Aren't the lowest possible and highest possible numbers
MB> nonexistent? Seems so to me, as you can always add or
MB> subtract one from them and get yet another number that
MB> is either higher or lower.
It's problematical, since the highest-possible has no limit