God Damned Fundies!
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: helpless moron from
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:57:02
EID:45ac 225a7720
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313debe
* On 23-02-97 at 13:50, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "Re: helpless moron from o" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RC> I trust you're not indicative of Australians in general. No country
CH> RC> could *possibly* be so characteristically stupid and survive.
CH> No, thankfully he isn't. My fiance's from Australia, and I've been down
CH> there, lived there for six months. Lovely country. Their version of
Pat
CH> Robertson gets laughed at. *grin*
Fred Nile *is* a joke. You take religious conservatives
seriously. We laugh at them.
Rod "...that's the way it works" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I wanted to be born again but my mother said: "No!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:59:04
EID:99ab 225a7760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313df38
* On 23-02-97 at 14:28, DAN CEPPA wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA,
on the topic of "Theft & Catholicism" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> JB> to be able to get this up on Dave Hamilton's board. Starting to
look
DC> JB> like Rod Swift's mail, isn't it?
DC> Not that bad. Besides, Rod is doing a marvelous, simply
DC> marvelous job standing in as a replacement for Al Schroeder!
In what way? I don't speak bullshit, so I'm not a replacement.
Rod "hehehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: A "swiftie"!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:05:06
EID:2bc9 225a78a0
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e0a2
* On 23-02-97 at 17:57, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to JOHN MUSSELWHITE,
on the topic of "A "swiftie"!" in echo Holysmoke:
LA> JM> THIS from someone (you) who continually bears false
LA> JM> witness against his neighbours? You'll be seeing us all
LA> JM> there, Laurie. God hates liars, don't you know.
LA> Clearly, as things stand, I can see you with a very
LA> large SHOVEL in the process of time!
===========================================================================
BBS: The Perth Omen
Date: 19-01-97 (19:22) Number: 2948
From: ROD SWIFT Refer#: NONE
To: ALL Recvd: NO
Subj: Appleton Conf: (11) Skeptic
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was from RICK MCFARLANE to ROD SWIFT,
originally in conference Holysmoke
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to Dave Horn <=-
Good morning, Rod.
DH> He sure is. Appleton is among the top three biggest liars in FidoNet.
RS> I'd like a Letterman Top 10 list of Laurie's actions, please God! :)
RS> :)
My nominations for the top ten amusing Appleton "quotes":
10) Forget all those confusing modern scientific papers, check out what
Newsweek said 25 years ago....
9) Popper doesn't know what Popper thinks, but I do!
8) It's not an opinion, it's a fact, and besides, evolution is based on
opinions just like it!
7) Just say no to Flouride!
6) It's too small a change to be evolution. No, it's too big a change to
be evolution. No it's too small. Too big. Too small....
5) Evolution is a religion, just like Creationism.
4) Creationism is science, just like Evolution.
3) Just say no to vaccination!
2) You seem to have the absurd opinion that winning a debate proves one's
case. And Creationists always win debates.
1) Velikovski is smarter than Newton.
Yep. He's said all those things. And more.
Take care.
... Celibacy is not hereditary. - Guy Goden
___ AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Sandra Peake -O'boy-
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:07:08
EID:a278 225a78e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e11c
* On 22-02-97 at 13:40, RONALD VASS wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Sandra Peake -O'boy-" in echo Holysmoke:
RV> > RV> You are dealing with a rouge J.W. fundy.
RV> JD>Oh. In that case, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sandra!
RV> JD> MERRY CHRISTMAS, Sandra!
RV> JD> HAPPY NEW YEAR, Sandra.
RV> JD> HAPPY ST.Valentines DAY, Sandra!
RV> I wasn't even going to pick on her, just drop a hint to
RV> the Swift Rod of truth, or that pagen, Smithing Richard. Just
RV> so they could have a hammering good time. Lets the blows fall
RV> where they may.
Well, next time don't be so obfuscating :)
Rod "....heheehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Websites Etc.
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:14:10
EID:d8b9 225a79c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e2c2
* On 21-02-97 at 14:55, DAVID RICE wrote to DARRYL GONZALEZ,
on the topic of "Websites Etc." in echo Holysmoke:
DR> >>DG> to point you towards a right relationship to
DR> >>DG> God[sic] & encourage you along the
DR> >DR> Please tell your god I am not a homosexual and that
DR> >DR> he will just have to look elsewhere for his
DR> >DR> "relationships." Thank you.
DR> DG> Shows again that you don't even have a clue as to what
DR> DG> I'm talking about.
DR> Wrong. It shows that YOU have no idea what YOU are talking
DR> about. Keep your anal fantasies to yourself, please. I do
DR> not want a "personal relationship" with the supernatural
DR> boyfriend.
ROFL!. I like you, David. You bend them over, and shove the
enema pipe right up the Christonazis, before giving it to them
and washing away the shit in their brains. It's fun to watch :)
:) Wahoo! :)
DR> DG> First of all, God[sic] deplores homosexuality
DR> Then why did god make homosexuals? Sheeeish: are you
DR> really this stupid?
DR> Much recent study has gone into the biological causes of
DR> homosexuality. Richard Pillard believes there is a
DR> definite hereditary aspect to homosexuality and that he is
DR> uniquely qualified to search for it as he, his brother,
DR> his sister and probably his father are gay, and he has a
DR> bi-sexual daughter. (Burr 1993:60)
Did you know the NIH is now recruiting gay men who have brothers
to participate in a study of their brothers and genetic patterns,
especially to compare a few genetic markers they suspect may
cause homosexual sexual orientation.
They are hoping that the research will show that a predominance
of the gay men have the genes, and if their brothers are gay, that
these genes and if their brothers are NOT gay, that the brothers
do NOT have the genes -- thereby isolating a genetic combination
that may prove to lead to homosexual sexual orientation or a
propensity to be gay.
DR> In recent studies Dick Swaab of the Netherlands Institute
DR> for Brain Research, reported in 1990 that "the
DR> suprachiasmatic nucleus [in the hypothalamus] was nearly
DR> twice as large in homosexual men as it was in heterosexual
DR> men" (Burr 1993:52). These tests follow on the heels of
DR> tests by Roger Gorski on the hypothalamus of rats which
DR> showed that these same cells were "five times larger in
DR> volume in the male rat than in the female" (ibid) Further
DR> tests were carried out by Simon Levay of the Salk
DR> Institute who states "the discovery that a nucleus differs
DR> in size between heterosexual and homosexual men
DR> illustrates that sexual orientation in humans is amenable
DR> to study at the biological level." (Parsons 1980:55)
This is probably all going over the head of the fundy, as they
"don't do science". It gets in the way of their belief system.
DR> DG> calling it a sin and an abomination at various places
DR> DG> in the Bible.
DR> Sorry, no. Ignorant, long-dead, savage Hebrews called
DR> male homosexuality "an abomination." Female homosexuality
DR> is okay since it isn't mentioned. Thank god for lesbians.
Lesbians are also God's chosen ones. They have succumbed the
least to HIV infection :) Speaking of which, God sent a very
evil pestilence. At first, the ignorant hets thought it was sent
to kill the fags, until they realised it was also to kill them
even *moreso* for *their* hypocritical judgement and sexual
mores. :) :) That's if you subscribe to their "God made HIV to
kill gays" theory :)
DR> DG> Secondly, the type of relationship I was referring to
DR> DG> is a father/children type, where He[sic] is the father
DR> DG> and we are the children.
DR> I have a father, thank you. I do not need an imaginary
DR> surrogate. It is quite telling, Darryl, of your
DR> relationship with your real father since you have felt the
DR> need to make a fantasy one. What did your real father do
DR> to you to make you turn to fantasy for paternal approval?
His dad probably was Christian, ergo, deprived poor little Darryl
of love, because men aren't supposed to be "emotional".
DR> By the way: there is evidence that Jesus was homosexual.
Much, from his own lips, in John :)
DR> This is quite possible since he was Helenized. His lover
DR> may have been the youth Lazarus, as one of the early
DR> Gospel According to Mark claims.
Or the one from John... :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:16:12
EID:bb28 225a7a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e33c
* On 24-02-97 at 07:32, DAVID RICE wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> >KY> And notice, I say, homosexuality, and not homosexuals,
DR> >KY> as there is a big difference.
DR> And notice I said black skin, and not black people: as there
DR> is a big difference.
Yes, there is.... *guffaw* *grin*
DR> MG> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your
DR> MG> stinking god punish homosexuality without punishing
DR> MG> homosexuals.
DR> Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
DR> Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
DR> they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
DR> worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
DR> Robertson.
You have seen what some of the religious conservatives have
espoused for gays as a solution, and the parallels to Hitler's
Jewish solution, don't you?
Rod "...including the tattooing of gays with pink triangles on
their hands or foreheads" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:17:14
EID:4c76 225a7a20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e37a
* On 17-02-97 at 12:19, DOUG LEE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
DL> RH> So burn homosexuality in Hell, not homosexuals.
DL> KY> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.
DL> Is Kenny here trying to blow up the FAQ from overload or something??
He's probably desperately trying to get an invite for one of us
men to let him blow us, it seems :) :)
Rod "...he's begging for it, you can just tell" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: I used to be indecisive; am I sure?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:20:16
EID:9a0b 225a7a80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e430
* On 23-02-97 at 00:15, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> mg> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
KY> mg> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
KY> FR> Answer the question, Jelly.
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are
KY> gay, you cannot be saved.
You claim that gays cannot be saved. Why do you attempt to? Are
you admitting they have no free will because they cannot be saved?
Is this a revision of your policy that they can change? Are you
now admitting you were wrong, and they *cannot change* and *be
saved*?
KY> Now, the difference is simply the difference between the person and
one's
KY> actions. Just because I am against what a person does,
KY> does not mean I am against that person.
But you said gays are unable to be saved. You also said you were
talking about the sin, not the sinner. It's clear you are lying.
Rod "...you should leave, now, while you still have a chance" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:22:18
EID:74cb 225a7ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e4aa
* On 23-02-97 at 11:11, MARK O'NEILL wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> KY> The choice I made was to go by what I naturally am, and not rebel
MO> KY> against my nature.
MO> An idiot.
MO> KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the key.
See,
MO> KY> while some are conscience doing it, gays may subconsciously make
the
MO> KY> choice to be homosexual. We make choices all the time without
MO> KY> realizing it. And throughout your life, what happens to you, will
also
MO> KY> be a big factor in the what choices you make.
MO> ROTFL!!!!
MO> <5 minutes later and still laughing maniacally> Fuck he cracks me up.
:-)
MO> Oh dear. This has gotta be kept for the archives! ;-)
MO> ... "gays may subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual" - Ken
Young
The ironic thing is that each time we debunk him, he comes up
with a new theory, as if he were desperate to actually have one
that he might be able to put over us.
I assure you, he will not succeed. :)
Rod "...every 'theory' he comes up with has either been espoused
by his kind before and been debunked, or supports the biblical
view in one way or another on sexual orientation, which has been
debunked." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't get stuck in a closet. Wear yourself out.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:23:20
EID:74fa 225a7ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e4e8
* On 23-02-97 at 11:14, MARK O'NEILL wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> AH>> When blacks, women, Jews, gays, and other such
MO> AH>> inferiors, heathens and deviants were kept in their
MO> AH>> proper place, I suppose.
MO> KY> Sorry to see that you consider them as inferiors. Perhaps you
should
MO> KY> work on being more tolerant of others. :)
I'm sorry you see gays as inferior, Ken. Perhaps you should work
on being more tolerant towards others.
Besides being more tolerant, being more understanding and
KNOWLEDGEABLE of the people you see as inferior is mandatory in
finding a solution for your illogical hatred.
Rod "...bye Ken, you tosser" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:25:22
EID:c069 225a7b20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e562
* On 21-02-97 at 23:45, SALLY SPRINGETT wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
SS> KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the
SS> KY> key. See, while some are conscience doing it, gays may
SS> KY> subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual. We make
SS> KY> choices all the time without realizing it. And throughout
SS> KY> your life, what happens to you, will also be a big factor in
SS> KY> the what choices you make.
SS> To suggest that _anyone_ (as a kid) would, or could,
SS> "subconsciously" choose an infinitely more difficult life is nuts.
It's also debunked. He's also making up all these "theories"
about sexual orientation with a biased viewpoint -- that each
"theory" he creates must be biblically-correct.
Rod "...and hence they are usually scientifically-incorrect" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I take my pet lion to church every Sunday. He has to eat!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You won't believe this q
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:27:24
EID:3128 225a7b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e5dc
* On 22-02-97 at 23:27, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "You won't believe this qu" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> FR> If one's religion is a choice, so is his sexual orientation.
KY> FR> Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't
KY> FR> loved. - Ken Young
KY> FR> To all you Christians: He's one of yours.
KY> Thank you for repeating my words of wisdom..
But haven't you recanted that "theory" and now claim it's a
subconscious choice (i.e. yet ANOTHER "theory" that has been
debunked before, and I have now debunked thoroughly)?
KY> Just one tiny bit of my brilliance that everyone should realize.
The thing that everyone should realise is that you are a hateful
idiot.
KY> Just because someone will have an unfortunate eternity,
KY> does not mean you love them any less.
Oh, excuse me. I thought the bible says that you had no right to
make such judgements. Then again, when you're a salad-bar
Christian who can't even read and understand the bible, or that
you flip-flop over Leviticus, what makes me want to believe you
are a "true Christian" at all?
Rod "...the only think you are is a 'true moron', Ken" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rutabaga: Lord of the vegies
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: For you!
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:29:26
EID:76ad 225a7ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e656
* On 23-02-97 at 00:15, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> to be against homosexuality? And notice, I say,
KY> KY> homosexuality, and not homosexuals, as there is a big
KY> KY> difference.
KY> mg> Tell us what the difference is, Jelly. How does your stinking
KY> mg> god punish homosexuality without punishing homosexuals.
KY> FR> Answer the question, Jelly.
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are
KY> gay, you cannot be saved.
For the quote file, Fred. He states gays cannot be saved, and if
they are not saved, they go to Hell.
Hence, they are predestined to go to Hell by God without using
any free-will whatsoever. He's a loon!
Rod "...just in case you didn't get it!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:30:28
EID:74fa 225a7bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e694
* On 23-02-97 at 11:25, KEN YOUNG wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better. They were still
KY> KY> around, but who needs to advertise their sexual orientation? And,
at
KY> DW> Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public?
KY> DW> Have you ever held hands with her? Why did you feel the
KY> DW> need to advertise your sexual orientation like that?
KY> That IMO would not be promoting sexual orientation.
...except when homosexual people do it, right?
KY> But, many gays do cause scenes about their lifestyle, and
KY> often make a point of people knowing they are gay, without
KY> any reason.
Please give examples of these "scenes" that you claim exist.
And what reasons did you have to justify your heterosexual
displays besides personal choice?
Rod "...and why can't personal choice apply to us?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer thi
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:31:30
EID:ed39 225a7be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e6d2
* On 23-02-97 at 11:15, KEN YOUNG wrote to MARILYN BURGE,
on the topic of "You forgot to answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> MB> You're kidding yourself. I've seen many a fundy come and go during
KY> MB> my time here. I've even seen fundies 'converted' to agnosticism.
KY> MB> I've only seen one person 'converted' the other direction, and
he
KY> MB> went from secular Jew to practicing Jew -- hardly a direction you
KY> MB> would recommend, I'm sure.
KY> Nope.. Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew, on the
KY> other hand, that would be another story..
KY> And anyway, I am here now.. HolySmoke will never be the same. :)
You'll leave soon enough :) You'll also whine on the way out
claiming you weren't treated fairly, when in fact it is because
you were writing out "reality cheques" that bounced when they
entered reality and were examined by all and sundry :)
Rod "...trust us, you will" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: helpless moron from oz
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:35:32
EID:6f6e 225a7c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e7c4
* On 23-02-97 at 11:56, MARK O'NEILL wrote to ROBERT CURRY,
on the topic of "helpless moron from oz" in echo Holysmoke:
[about Laurie Appleton....]
MO> RC> I trust you're not indicative of Australians in general. No country
MO> RC> could *possibly* be so characteristically stupid and survive.
MO> Yes, it's an uphill battle. ;-) I don't want anything to do with the
MO> clown. We have our fair share of fundies over here and although it's
not
MO> quite as bad as the US (from my perspective at least), it certainly
seems
MO> to be getting there. :-(
MO> Talking to a fella at work the other day who drinks and cavorts around
the
MO> countryside (yes, he's a christian), and he has a real hatred for gays
MO> saying that he's sick of having gay rights shoved down his throat.
(You
MO> may know of the gay mardi-gras we have over here every year). When
I
MO> mentioned I was tired of having seemingly endless televangilists spreading
MO> the good word and expecting me to believe such a chunk of shit he became
MO> quite irate and proceeded to swear profusely, after which he packed
up his
MO> bat and ball and left. Funny the way christians behave at times.
Here's an even funnier example. You know about the group
TasAlert? The homophobic group that spread around leaflets not
unlike those the people in the US see from the likes of Fred
Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church....
... Well now they are claiming that Sydney Mardi Gras is a
"massacre waiting to happen" and the only way that people can
solve this problem is for "queers to get back in the closet and
shut up and cancel the parade".
Of course, we wouldn't want to comment on their agenda, nor the
fact that they are playing "blame the victim" rather than condemn
any such attacker -- who would probably come right from their
own hate-inspired ranks!
I cannot believe they have the gall that we have to restrict our
freedoms due to the problem that they unleashed!
Rod "...ironic, eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bigots: those who confuse personal tastes with morality
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:37:34
EID:b339 225a7ca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313e83e
* On 24-02-97 at 19:05, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "In the news" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> Heard about the "Army of God" taking responsibility for the
SQ> bombing of an abortion clinic and a gay bar. Someone, hunt
SQ> these motherfuckers down and try them for "war crimes."
SQ> Either that or send them up to the Empire State Building to
SQ> be "tour guides." And these Fundy fucks wonder why we're
SQ> so opposed to their -horseshit- in our schools.
I reposted the articles here from AP and Reuters.
The worst thing is that they leave a second bomb around to get
the emergency workers. That is really sick. That's *domestic
terrorism*. I hope they get to fry in the electric chair.
Rod "...they deserve no less than to meet their fucking maker" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Rat finds Food at End of
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:50:36
EID:e338 225a7e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313eb4c
* On 24-02-97 at 00:17, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "Rat finds Food at End of" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> A 59-year-old Catholic Priest has been charged with Child
DH> Molestation over incidents occurring between 1991 and 1993.
DH> The parents originally reported the item to officials in
DH> the Church, where they were assured that the issue would
DH> be dealt with.
DH> However it was dealt with, the police were never notified,
DH> the pastor still has his position. He has NOW been charged
DH> by police.
As I said, the first thing religionists want is special
protections against prosecution -- this being one of them.
Rod "...I hope the priest spends the rest of his life as Bobo's
new 'wife' in jail" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any milk can make cheese. Here, have some gerbil cheese.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 26 Feb 97 15:52:38
EID:1427 225a7e80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313ebc6
* On 21-02-97 at 15:21, DAVID RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Murderous Christians" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> I can produce, at a moments notice, several documented
DR> cases of Christians who have reciently rape, murdered,
DR> and tortured people. Hell, I've already done so and sent
DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
DR> accept the Truth.
The most important cases have occurred in GEORGIA this month...
The case of the Georgia exorcism I sent Brother Fredric, and the
case this week of the gay nightclub bombing in Atlanta.
Rod "...more examples of Christian domestic terrorism" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death is life's answer to the question "Why?"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:20:40
EID:f07c 225a8280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f258
* On 22-02-97 at 23:13, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> Atheism is not, not having a religious belief, it is
KY> KY> specifically not believing in God, IOW making a choice to not
KY> KY> believe. A baby has not made that choice yet, so he cannot be
KY> KY> an atheist.
KY> FR> Everyone is born not believing in deity constructs,
KY> FR> Ken. Occultism and superstitious fear and hatred must
KY> FR> be ingrained in an individual before they start
KY> FR> believing in deity constructs.
KY> How do you know a baby doesn't have any belief in a god?
Why do you claim that they do?
KY> Unless you have spoken with a baby first hand, and asked,
KY> there is no way you could no.
Why do you claim by default that they are religious?
Is this the same sort of claptrap that you present that everyone
is born straight?
KY> Before someone believes in a diety, they must be full of
KY> hate? I am sure many people, of many faiths besides even
KY> Christian ones, would strongly disagree with that.
Most notably me. I only believe that the ones with a patriachal
deity construct of love *and* hate could only be believed in by
someone who wishes to claim that they love everyone, but in fact
wish to only judge other humans.
Rod "...to make up for the pathetic and pitiful life they have
had in their past..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying example
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:23:42
EID:7d13 225a82e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f30e
* On 23-02-97 at 00:25, KEN YOUNG wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> I hope you do get saved and see me in Heaven.
What makes you so sure that you are going to wind up in such a
place? Your judgements, hatreds, ignorance, and lies have
predestined you :)
Rod "...and that's from your performance in here over the past
two weeks. Better start praying for some forgiveness, and ask
for some forgiveness from us... Else you can just be an arrogant
asshole and leave us and seek self-delusionary requests for
salvation for your sins that you have perpetrated here..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:29:44
EID:74fa 225a83a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f478
* On 23-02-97 at 00:32, KEN YOUNG wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> Seems that when this was more of a Christian society, things were
a
KY> KY> lot better.
KY> JH> When exactly was this more of a Christian society? When we were
KY> JH> killing witches? When we were accusing people of being "godless
KY> JH> communists"? When children were made to pray in schools?
KY> No to the first one, yes to the other two.. Just because
KY> some Christians killed people that supposedly were witches
KY> (most weren't, as it was all political), does not mean the
KY> whole Christian church would be for it.
So it's ok to falsely accuse people of witchcraft and then to
kill them? How wonderfully loving and Christian of you.
KY> I see nothing wrong with saying that some are "godless
KY> communists." If they are, then they should be exposed.
Exposed for what? Communism is a valid form of political
ideology. Just because you don't believe in it does not mean you
have the right to exterminate people based on political ideology.
KY> And while now, I don't think we could ever go back to prayer
KY> in school, there was a time when it was fine.
You're obviously ignorant. Did you see the Christian woman who
sued the local school board only in the past two years? Her
small-town "Christian neighbours" have harrassed her and bashed
her kids, and claimed they were "atheists".
All because she actually believes in the bible and the passage
that states quite clearly that one should not pray in public.
KY> Seemed to have worked fine.
Seemed, but actually did not.
KY> Kids were a lot more educated back then.
The reason why kids aren't well educated now is because of
defunding of education. Not removal of superstition. In fact,
with the removal of superstition, we could compare current
education with education in the 1920s when creationism was
instructed in the class...
... We've improved a lot by banning religious instruction or
education or ritual on school campuses.
KY> But since we took prayer out of the schools, the students
KY> have been doing a lot worse.
Any proof that proves a causal link between the two? I'd suggest
that the defunding of education on a per-capita student basis is
the real reason.
Rod "...of course, you'd probably not see this" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Mud thrown is ground lost
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Why do you NEED to b
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:30:46
EID:8b91 225a83c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f4b6
* On 23-02-97 at 00:38, KEN YOUNG wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Why do you NEED to be" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> Also, and this is not proof, but rather an interesting possibility,
KY> KY> there have been many to say they heard torturous screams of agony
when
KY> KY> they dug too deep in the earth.. Now, if that is
KY> KY> so, could it be Hell?
KY> Keep in mind, I made it very clear it was a POSSIBILITY,
KY> not a fact. Besides, the sounds that some heard in the
KY> earth, was reported two different times by the mainstream
KY> media.
The wonderful thing about the secular world is that frauds are
exposed -- something the religious world holds as truth even after
their frauds are exposed.
It should be reproducable on demand. Is it?
Rod "...you're a moron, Ken" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do unto others, often.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: READING INCOMPREHENS
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:33:48
EID:6a19 225a8420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f56c
* On 23-02-97 at 00:44, KEN YOUNG wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: READING INCOMPREHENSI" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> The rumors about P&G being a front for Satanism likely are false.
Not only likely, but they have sued the people who spread the lie
-- Amway started it :)
Isn't Amway fundie-led? :)
KY> ANd when I say we created diseases, I simply mean that by
KY> not following biblical principles, we have set a path for
KY> ourselves, which includes disease.
Oh, really? Evidence?
KY> JH> Where would this "place" be?
KY> Uh, does the word "Hell," ring a bell? :)
Hell is in Norway. It is very cold, unlike the bible's rendition
of it. Another example of your bible being wrong.
KY> KY> Oh, but you don't truly take responsibility for your actions.. You
KY> KY> And I do not blame God or Satan for our problems. In fact, I have
KY> KY> been saying all along, that our problems, are the fault of mankind.
KY> JH> Even though God knew we would do these things and created us
KY> JH> anyway.
KY> So we would have free will.
But why do we have free will? If I were to invent something, I'd
invent it with a clearly defined programming and purpose, and
WITHOUT the ability to rebel.
There is no logical function for free will in any creation. Why
doesn't V'Ger fix the carbon units?
Rod "...you work it out, Ken." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: USA CompuCensor Law
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:34:50
EID:d612 225a8440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f5aa
* On 23-02-97 at 03:51, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "USA CompuCensor Law" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> > THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK
KY> FR> Did they use TANKS, dear?
KY> A bit obsessive, aren't we? :) Oh, but that's right..
KY> You have a hard time moving onto something else..
Do you care to give us your spin on Waco?
After all, Christians love to spin-doctor.
Rod "...go on... tell us!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If this is reality I want a refund!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 26 Feb 97 16:51:52
EID:556a 225a8660
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3313f9a8
* On 23-02-97 at 14:18, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "READING INCOMPREHENSION" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> Salue, DAVID!
SQ> Veneris dies February 21 1997, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
SQ> DR> I like the one that says something like "At football games
SQ> DR> you can always see some rainbow-haired person holding a
SQ> DR> sign that reads 'Origin of Species, Pg 316.'"
SQ> Ever see the Married With Children episode where Al took the NO MA'AM
SQ> organization onto Jerry Springer's show? There was a guy
SQ> in the front row wearing a NO MA'AM shirt and a rainbow
SQ> wig, holding up the John 3:16 sign." Quite literally fell
SQ> out of my chair.
It ran as a repeat here two days ago :) :)
SQ> Anyways, why DOESN'T someone wear a rainbow wig to a
SQ> football game and hold up such a sign? Suzy and I are
SQ> going to see the Saints next year, and I'd be more than
SQ> happy to do it. :)
Well, maybe Patrick, Dale Ann the Devious, Chris and I could do
the big sheet message at an IHL game in Houston :) :)
"ORIGIN OF THE SPECIES, page 316"
Rod "...how about it, Patrick?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: More Christian nuts
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:46:54
EID:ccbd 22625dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3318f82e
08:23 PM ET 02/25/97
House member criticizes ``Schindler's List'' airing
WASHINGTON (Reuter) - A Republican member of Congress
Tuesday criticized NBC television's showing of the Holocaust
movie ``Schindler's List,'' saying its airing during Sunday
family time should outrage parents.
Rep. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma was quoted in a release put out
by his Oklahoma office as saying the airing of the highly
acclaimed film took network television ``to an all-time low,
with full frontal nudity, violence and profanity being shown in
our homes.''
His criticism brought a response from Sen Alfonse D'Aamto, a
New York Republican, who told the Senate Coburn's statement
was ``shocking.''
``To equate the nudity of the Holocaust victims in the
concentration camp with any sexual connotations is outrageous
and offensive,'' D'Amato said.
Coburn, co-chairman of the Congressional Family Caucus, said
that while the film was given a rating for mature adult
audiences, ``the fact that it aired on public television on a
Sunday evening during a family time should outrage parents and
decent-minded individuals everywhere.''
He added: ``I cringe when I realize that there were children
all across this nation watching this program. They were exposed
to the violence of multiple gunshot head wounds, vile language,
full frontal nudity and irresponsible sexual activity.
``It simply should not have been allowed on public
television.''
Coburn said the airing of the movie demonstrated that the
new TV rating system ``only encourages more sex and violence.''
In a later statement, the congressman said this issue was
whether it was appropriate for young children to see the
violence and nudity in the movie.
``Schindler's List,'' he said ``was an excellent and
informative program that should not have been aired on a
network'' when it could have been watched by children.
* OLX 2.1 TD * If you choke a Smurf, what colour does it turn?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: A quote for you
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:51:56
EID:9e9e 22625e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3318f95c
You know how I have this theory about needing a "good enemy" so that
one may raise a good army of "onward Christian soldiers", and that
the enemy changes from minority to minority while propaganda about
a minority's threat to the majority can be spread? Well, here's an
interesting quote for you :) :)
"For centuries, dominant groups in society have used the 'they're
after your kids' myth to marginalize subdominant groups. The
stories change, but the pattern is always the same. In 19th-century
Russia, Jews were supposedly after Christian children to use their
blood in the Passover Seder, a convenient fiction which was used to
justify pogroms by the Christian majority; in early-20th-century
America, the need to protect the sanctity of young white females
was used as a pretext for the lynching of twelve hundred black men
between 1900 and 1940; and today, the far Right ignores statistics
that show heterosexual men (not gay men, not straight women, not
lesbians) are the disproportionate majority of child sexual abusers..."
-- Kevin Jennings, founder of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Teachers
Network (GLSTN), in the anthology "One Teacher in Ten" [Alyson
Publications, 1994]
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 02 Mar 97 00:37:26
EID:46ac 226204a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33191216
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33181e5f
DR> Jonestown: the Fundamentalist Christian preacher who ran
DR> the join, Rev. Jim Jones, was once an Assemblies of God
DR> minister who later became a Children of God minister. He
DR> and his Christian upper management goons poisioned and /
DR> or shot over 900 people, 300 of which were children. In
DR> fact, most were gunned down. I have the photographs of
DR> the bodies.
KY> I know, the autopsy reports say the same thing. But was it Jim
KY> Jones that killed them? Especially since he died of gun shot
KY> wounds himself..
DM> He mixed the Kool-Aid; he gave the orders to drink and the
DM> orders to the guards to shoot the nondrinkers. It addition to the
DM> autopsy reports, we also have the tapes of all this. For an
DM> additional layer of responsibility, he is the one who persuaded all
DM> those people to go to Guyana in the first place.
Well then, there must have been a whole lot of nondrinkers, including himself.
I will however, agree with you about him being responsible, as he was who
persuaded them to go there. But he was not the only one to blame. Let's
face it, he did not force them to go. They went there on their own, as
stupid as it may have been.
KY> I have never denied that some that CLAIM to be Christian, have
KY> committed violent acts, but those acts would go so much against
KY> Christian beliefs that they could not be Christians.
DM> What _else_ does anybody have to go on, but the claims of the
DM> person involved regarding his beliefs? Put another way, what makes
DM> _your_ claims of being a Christian preferable to those of anyone
DM> else?
DOn't go by what group they claim to be part of. Rather, go by what specific
beliefs they claim to have.
If what I say does not measure up to the gospel, then I am not a Christian.
If it does, then I am. Pretty simple.
JH> I trust you never hug, kiss, flirt, dance, and/or hold hands
JH> with a woman in public. After all, you said above no one needs
JH> to advertise their sexual orientation.
KY> That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically try to
KY> advance a pro gay agenda.
DM> But THAT, dimbulb, is _not_ a sexual activity: it is a political
DM> one.
True, but it is a political activity promoting a sexual one.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 02 Mar 97 00:46:04
EID:807f 226205c0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3319141c
REPLY: 1:170/551.0 1608c8f4
KY>Then, I take it, you deny that any homosexuals chose to be gay?
KS> All you have to do, Jelly, is find one.
Well, would a bisexual do? As much as I hate it, I do have a friend who
is rethinking her views on sexuality, and has said she is now a bisexual.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:11:26
EID:dcbe 22626960
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3319c2ce
REPLY: 1:229/622 33185ca9
KY> If that is what the people want, fine.. As long as it is more on the
KY> local or state level, and not federal..
DH> . Just so long as you don't have to accept it, right? So it's
DH> OK for a woman in one state to have choices but not in the next state?
DH> What, then, is the point of remaining a country? Dollars?
Beats me, I have always been more for state rights, myself.
Hey, if you don't like how an area is doing things, just leave. Sounds
like a good idea to me.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:13:16
EID:f555 226269a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3319c33c
REPLY: 1:229/622 33185d76
KY> And I will assume you have evidence that a militia was involved?
DH> The only evidence so far is the accused bomber's admission that
DH> he did it and that he was a militia member, from whence he received
DH> the training necessary to blow up the building. That he chose to
DH> do it when it was most populated, rather than in the middle of
DH> the night, indicates he was intending to be as violent as possible.
And this is according to who? Some guy on the internet. Just because one
person makes some calims, does not make it so.
If he has made such an admission, than why does he and his lawyers deny
it?
No, he never said he was a militia member. The only thing people could
find to connect him to them, is that he had publications agreeing with their
general viewpoints.
Okay, why would he do it, anyway? If it was an act against the govt., one
measly government building certainly wouldn't bring change or anything.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:17:22
EID:a57d 22626a20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3319c432
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 331781c6
ky> AH, but shouldn't something become law, if that is
ky> what the majority of the public truly wants?
RS> The majority of people in this country want legalized
RS> abortion. So it's okay?
First, show me that the majority wants this. I do not believe there has
been a vote on this yet. Until then, your notion that the majority is pro-death,
is just a figment of your imagination.
Second, I do not believe what the majority wants should be federal law,
just local and maybe state.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Chlorinating Christians
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:27:52
EID:cdfc 22626b60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3319c6a8
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3313694a
Jd> We don't go to church, but christianity is like a disease that wants
to
Jd> spread. It wants to elbow its way into our schools, hospitals, places
of
Jd> employment. So, like treating our drinking water against cholera, we
Jd> must keep the Chrisitan mind infection at bay.
Hmm.. Interesting.. Didn't Hitler say similar things, referrring to what
he saw as "undesirables" as an illness society had to be cured of?
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: Rowan Atkinson
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:15:52
EID:a161 226289e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 3319b62c
PID: GED3 2.5
Kevin McKenzie sent me this. I thought some of you might enjoy it.
--cut--
Oh, I was watching Comedy Central last week, and they had a great Rowan
Atkinson sketch act, one of which was him as the Devil, dealing with the
damned right after Judgement Day. It went as follows:
"OK, all you adulterers, please step forward. My, there sure are alot of
you, aren't there? Well, form to lines, male and female. You males, line
up over there by the little guillotine.
"The French? Are the French here? Good, good. Step over there by the
Germans. I'm sure you have a lot to talk about.
"Atheists? Atheists, please step forward. I bet you all feel like a right
bunch of ninnies, don't you?
"And finally, Christians. Are the Christians here? Sorry, but it turns
out the Jews *were* right. Tough luck, that.
"Well, enjoy your stay here. Now Adolf, you take over . . . "
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 01 Mar 97 08:23:14
EID:5330 226142e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 0bc91678
REPLY: 1:123/67 3315be68
On 27 Feb 97, Shelby Sherman wrote:
SS> JB>> irrationality of the claimee.
SS> SS>> Do I celebrate a birthday for my 6 mo. old grandchild? How many
SS> SS>> years old is he, John?
JB> One-half.
SS> No, John. He is ZERO years old.
Granted. Now, does that mean that he is inside his "zeroeth" year, his
"year zero," or inside his _first_ year, his "year one?"
I have a box and a pile of dimes. I pick up a dime and put it in the
box. I'm asked "how many dollars have you in the box?" I say either
"none" (zero), or I say some fraction; "one tenth of a dollar."
My questioner says "I don't care about the fractions, so you have zero
dollars in the box." I agree. I ask him "so what number dollar am I
building up in the box?" He says, "the zeroeth dollar."
I ask "what number dollar will be in there when I've finished putting
the zeroeth dollar's dimes in there? He says, "the first."
I say, where'd the "zeroeth dollar" go?
He stares in utter lack of comprehension, I laugh myself silly,
and the guy gets huffy and leaves.
Anybody get it yet? There is no "zero year," no "zero dollar," no "zero
hour." There can be _zero_yearS_, but not _A_ 'zero year.'
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Reality-ometer: [......../] .....eeeee-YES!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 01 Mar 97 08:38:25
EID:0f67 226144c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 9ab69586
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
JB> Roger, "0.5" is _obviously_ not "0.0." You are not "zero years old"
JB> at six months, you are "zero _complete_ years old."
RH> Same difference. You have lived zero complete years plus 6 months.
RH> When your first birthday arrives, you are 1 year old because
RH> one year has passed; the zero year.
JB> But you have to _switch_labels_ to do that!
RH> Yes, and you switch labels anyway; you are 6 months old, 7 months old,
RH> etc. and suddenly you are 1 YEAR old.
All right, then we see the crux of the matter clearly. There can be
zero _yearS_ (plural-categorical), but there can't be a "year zero" --a
complete year with the label "zero."
RH> That's the way it works. Don't confuse "first" with "one".
RH> The "first" year is the 0 year.
(*grin*) It don't seem like it's _me_ that's confused. My way, I don't
have to switch labels. "First" and "one" are the same thing, if we're
talking blocks --talking discrete entities.
JB> but I'll see if you can find first.
RH> Curry already pointed it out.What is 6 - 6?
That's it, but it still works my way. (I found the escape.) Did you
see one of the three messages I put it in?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... milliHelen: amount of beauty needed to launch one ship.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 01 Mar 97 08:43:26
EID:0707 22614560
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 70e78ac4
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> Given that self-interconnectedness appears to be a requirement for the
JB> only form of intelligence and self-awareness that we _know_ exists
JB> (human brains with "personalities" somehow riding in them), then the
JB> following reasoning is not necessarily invalid:
RH> Given that we don't know how it works, ANYthing is not necessarily
RH> invalid. Useless as an argument.
JB> If self-interconnectedness is a requirement for the Universe to be
JB> intelligent-as-a-whole and self-aware, and if _lack_ of self-
JB> interconnectedness refutes the idea that the Universe is intelligent
JB> and self-aware, what evidence do we have regarding the self-
JB> interconnectedness of the Universe?
RH> None, because nonlocality cannot be used to transmit information.
You're confusing a) human-meaningful "information" with a natural
configurational effect, b) "information" with the wholism of "the
wavefunction" (in its guise as an experimentally observable effect), and
c) nonlocality with "transfer." (Nothing "transfers"; the effect
appears simultaneously in two or more separated places, when something
is done in only one of the places.)
The two particles in an EPR experiment are _interconnected_ in some way.
The particle _set_ is "self-interconnected." I use the hyphenated word
in exactly that way in my quoted paragraph above.
JB> and in which direction, IF science has accurate information about the
JB> Universe's self-interconnectedness?
JB> And, _DOES_ science have this self-interconnectedness information, or
JB> does it not?
JB> You and I both know some of the answer to _that_ question....
RH> We do; it's NO! The keyword is "information", without which we
RH> can have no awareness.
Then "we" _don't_ both know. The answer is YES. You've confused what
we commonly mean by "information" with what happens in reality, in an
EPR experiment. No "information" "transfers" between the two particles,
yet it's experimentally obvious that doing something to one of them
produces an unambiguous effect in both of them.
So, I see no good reason to deny validity or usefulness to the effect
just because someone's confused about what is "information" and what is
not, or what is "transfer" and what is not. IOW, you can't deny the
interconnectedness of multiparticle EPR effects by hollering that
"information" cannot be "transferred" that way. Obviously it can (given
the caveat of getting your conceptualizations right), just not what we
would call "intelligent," or "serially transmitted" information.
Likewise, it might be said that neurons, any single one of which does
not carry anything _nearly_ as complex as "intelligent" information, yet
_somehow_ manages to produce --IN ASSOCIATION with billion of others--
that wonderful thing we call self-aware and intelligent information-
processing.
The effect seems to be solely that of a _configuration_ with 'delay
lines' in time. We have a wetware organ made of parallel-processing
subunits (neurons), each of which can only fire or not fire, whose sole
difference from a pile of them is its specific _configuration_.
Given a set of parallel EPR experiments (say, a sphere-shaped collection
of EPR photon emitters), if we were to 'detect' (measure) all of them
at once at one end, the other end's pattern of "hardened" properties
would have the same configuration in spacetime. That is, no "serial
information" would "transfer," but the pattern of events-in-spacetime at
one end logically would mirror the pattern of events-in-spacetime at the
other.
To me, the anti-real, anti-EPR 'no-information-transfers' argument is as
much a cop-out as a Fundie's argument that only HIS god could be the
real one. It's a matter of understanding what's _meant_ by both
'information' and 'transfer,' and seeing that that does not necessarily
eliminate 'copying' of 3D patterns in spacetime by means of the EPR
effect.
JB> Some of us prefer to move off the null with _no_ information, in
JB> either direction --Theists and AntiTheists, and some of us prefer to
JB> stay tight-stuck to the null --atheists and agnostics, and some of
us
JB> prefer to move only very slightly off the null. Does the information
JB> exist, or not exist, to justify _any_ of those movements?
JB> Again, you and I both know that it does.
RH> Wrong.
I see that. Apparently only I and a few others who think as me, know
that it does.
JB> IOW, we are _not_ stuck exactly and purely on the null hypothesis, IF
JB> we are honest and take quantum mechanics and nonlocality seriously.
JB> (Hmmm.... that's one of my better attempts.... (*grin*))
RH> Nice try alright, but no cigar.
Thanks. Have one anyway. (*g*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Science: Words and Music by God; arrangement by QM, for full Chorus
only.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 01 Mar 97 09:05:53
EID:0f67 226148a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 94362667
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
RH> Wrong. You are a decimal fraction of a year old, thus you are
RH> 0 whole years old.
JB> Like I said, I think we've been exploring the difference between two
JB> fundamentally incompatible systems, the discrete and the continuous.
RH> Nope; blocks need zero too. Show me 6 - 6 without a zero block.
RH> [-2] [-1] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
RH> ^ 6 5 4 3 2 1
RH> Is it really -1 John?
You, the counter: "!"
!
[-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
You start ON the block, and start counting _down_, removing
(subtracting) blocks from the line and including the [+6] block:
'Take away' (subtract) 6,5,4,3, and 2, move to the [+1] block, ready to
take it away also:
[-2][-1][+1]_!_ ___ ___ ___ ___ [+7]
Take away the last one:
[-2][-1]_!_ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ [+7]
Now, which block are you ON? (Not the _next_ block, which you are NOT
on after you've finished taking away (subtracting) six blocks)...
Answer: no block. You're not on a block. None. Zip. "Zero." All six
blocks are gone; 'subtracted', and you started AND finished ON the
blocks or block-places, without needing that ludicrous "zero block."
Consistency (FAIC) demands you either start and finish ON a block (or
the absence of a block, in the case of subtraction), or you start
_before_ the first block in your formula and finish _before_ the "answer
block."
To do it your way, you have to mix the two, starting ON a block and
removing it BUT finishing on a further block, or starting a block ahead
and finishing ON the answer block.
:::::--OR--::::: You have to bow to silliness and ugliness, by
including a "zero block" in your block line. (*grin*)
There is a "zero" in the number line. There is no "zero block" in a
line of discrete entities. Discretely, there either is, or is not, an
entity. A discrete entity called "the zero entity" is an oxymoron.
Zero entities (blocks) is ZERO ENTITIES. There is no entity that is
both AN entity and NOT an entity at the same time.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If it works, rip it apart and find out why.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: INFINITESIMALS
|Date: 01 Mar 97 09:27:03
EID:e9f9 22614b60
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 61ce3cdf
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
JB> reason why they would not.
RH> The main reason is that a point is a location, not an object. As
As you know, we're treating it like an object--a 'reality'-- rather than
like an abstraction --a 'location.' We also retain all of the
properties of the abstraction _except_ coalesceability (we can't put two
or more points in the same location). Those seem to be the only
differences between "point" and "piont."
RH> such, it has to have a background space to be "in". So your whole
RH> concept is backward. And that means you can have as many as you want,
RH> because the background comes first.
In the abstraction of math, yes. But who's to say it's _my_ view that's
"backwards?" It seems to me that since the definitions of point and
line (or point and plane; point and background) are _circular_, and mine
is _serial_ (sequential from nothing), it's mine that's straightforward
and linear, and not "backward."
Moreover, if the background comes _first_, it is less serially logical:
the "first" precept from nothing ought to have no 'size' or
divisibility, but a background with no 'size' (hence divisibility) could
not allow emplacement of more than one point (one location). Hence
getting your background _first_ isn't serially logical: it's too "big"
to be the _first_ thing in the chain of getting precepts from nothing.
JB> 1) One such point is by definition dimensionless, has no 'size.'
JB> 2) Two such pionts, coalesced or superimposed (congruent), could
JB> have no 'size' either.
JB> 3) Two such points, _forbidden_ coalescence, must cause 'size'
JB> in some way, even if that size is ambiguous and nonquantifiable
JB> in terms of existing measurement systems.
RH> You can't have separation without defining a metric -first-.
There seems to be some disagreement about that, not all of it resting
with me.
But no matter: my main stance in this has been that 'standard math' does
not possess the language to speak the things I must speak. You confirm,
others confirm, the Physics echo is historically fraught with
confirmations (you echo Darryl, in what you say here), so why are Robert
et.al. arguing the opposite?
Like I said to Darryl: if I have to have a metric before I can speak of
'sphere' and 'distance,' and if what I have to start with is absolutely
_nothing_ ("[NoThing]") then hadn't I better have a way to MAKE a
metric? That's what that despicable, metaphysical 'origin sequence'
does: allows _manufacture_ of a "metric"--in the form of a network of
vertex order twelve; a slightly malleable, but otherwise rigidly
unambiguous network of pionts (objects), with a minimum, but
unquantified, 'distance' globally present between every two nodes that
the network allows to have it.
I am learning to hate both circular axioms and circular arguments.
I refuse to bend to all these "Catch-22s." If it's worth doing, it's
worth doing sequential-logically, from the only "absolute" starting
point there is: _nothing_.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Facts do not support Egos; they support Ideas.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: JOHN-BOY'S LAST CHANC
|Date: 01 Mar 97 09:46:30
EID:9d73 22614dc0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5ab33b20
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes <=-
JB> Give me the 'formal math language' direct and unambiguous equivalent
JB> "that distance, less than which, two points coalesce and become one
JB> point." Else, grant that it doesn't exist.
RH> It doesn't exist in standard math.
That's exactly my point, and I'm getting all this flak for believing
exactly that. (Which, as you know well, I have claimed almost from the
very beginning.)
RH> In T-Verse, it's called dmin (thanks to me).
In T-verse, it's called that, thanks _very_much_ to you, Roger.
JB> And now return to the question itself: I have not had an issue with
JB> what two points would BE if they _did_ coalesce; its' obvious they
JB> would cease to be two. I need what the 'thing' is that is _between_
JB> them if the are forced together --with a sort of conceptually
JB> near-infinite 'force'-- but do NOT coalesce.
JB> You so far seem to be saying one of the following:
JB> a) the question is meaningless,
JB> b) the question is answerless (the language does not exist
JB> in which to formulate the answer),
JB> c) you are an idiot (John doesn't understand his own concept),
JB> d) I am an idiot (Mark doesn't understand John's concept).
RH> You left out e) the answer is undefined.
OK. sorry. It didn't occur to me because I'm confused about why
"undefined" is different from "useless" (*grin*). To me, "undefined"
doesn't do us any good. I'm wrong? I can say "that distance is
undefined," and math types -won't- holler at me for saying it? (If so,
I'd start using it in a heartbeat!)
RH> That's probably the correct one until you measure dmin. Or you could
As I (we) have always maintained.
As I've said before, the question is not "how big is it WRT us?" but
rather is "how big are WE in comparison to IT?" Being the proposed
absolute minimum "size" component of Universe, it would, if it were
real, BE the "absolute yardstick." We would then have to speak of our
measurement increments in terms of multiples of its "size" rather than
the other way around.
RH> say it's the same size as an electron....which also has no size.
Seems to be some confusion about that.... I'm reading a new one; seems
to be going to be a good one. (Did you know a single _atom_ has been
seen with the _naked_eye_? Yes. Properly, the light from a single
Barium ion trapped in a tuned laser beam, was seen by microscope in
1979, and later with the naked eye, as "a bright blue star in a volume
of emptiness." That is, the 10^8 photons emitted by that single atom
were enough to make it visible to the _naked_eye_. I was astonished.
Now I wanna get a look at one!) The book: Wick, David; The Infamous
Boundary: Seven Decades of Controversy in Quantum Physics.
Anyway, he describes a difference between theory and measurement, in the
electron's 'gyromagnetic ratio' --the ratio of the e-'s intrinsic
magnetism to its intrinsic 'spin.' The difference allows a 'size' to
the electron, but does not prove it.
JB> Fine. The question, phrased as it was, has no mathematical answer.
JB> Does it have a topological answer? I can't find that one, either,
RH> No. In topology, points cannot coalesce because it messes up the
RH> mapping. There is no "minimum distance" defined and it is not any
RH> metaphysical
RH> thing either. It's just a rule to keep you from screwing up.
At least it's _there_. (*grin*) If it weren't, I'd have no legs at
all, no standard math connection to start arguing from, no foothold.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... It's probably Probability....
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:05:35
EID:900a 226150a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5e549f97
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89712bf0
On 28 Feb 97, Laurie Appleton wrote:
JB> (Are we in Holy_Smoke still? Yes?) Goodie:
JB> Laurie, blow it out your lying,
JB> Bible-Fundie, Sophist-Creationistic ASS.
LA> Your true character showing eh John?
Not at all. Blowing up now and then is no more a mark of someone's
"true character" than a hole in the radiator is a mark of an
automobile's "true character." I just sometimes get overfrustrated with
the blindness, stupidity and/or ignorance, sophistry and prevarication
of people with your type of religiously insane belief system.
(*chuckle*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... IRS: The Income Removal System
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:10:58
EID:7f32 22615140
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 33d1a2fb
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 33164903
On 28 Feb 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 25 Feb 97 10:34, John Brawley wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DW> DC>> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
JB> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're,"
DW> Are you claiming that the word "your" in the above should be replaced
DW> with "you're?"
DW> Are you *really* saying this?
DW> Who ya gonna call black next, Mr. Pot?
Quote the whole message, in which it's obvious in the _previous_ comment
from him, he used "your" for "you're."
(Mr. Sophist David, _sir_.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... E^2/c^2 = p^2 + m^2*c^2
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:13:00
EID:d7c7 226151a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 b820e8ea
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 331708ae
On 28 Feb 97, Joe Seatter wrote:
JS> Quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman
SS> Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
JB> Functions and limits?
JB> Oh, you don't want to start _that_ shit here, do you?
JS> why? did you fail calculus too? or just grade 2 math?
A's in geometry, D's in algebra. Go figger. I have a top-notch
visualizer-conceptualizer, and an abominable abstracter, in the same
brain.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Growing Older: 'Essence cessation sensation.'
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:15:33
EID:d7fb 226151e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 859a3464
REPLY: 1:123/67 3317398e
On 28 Feb 97, Shelby Sherman wrote:
SS> Of course it does...as you debunk yourself here...
JB> (it
JB> 'limits' out to infinity,
SS> That's right, John. It has a MATHEMATICAL limit of infinity.
I'm right, but I'm debunked? How utterly logical of you....
JB> which is infinitely large, boundless,
JB> "open"). But the "lowest" possible (infinitesimally small) DOES have
JB> a bound, a 'limit,' and is "closed" ("zero").
SS> lim x ===> infinity is no less efficient in coming close to infinity
SS> than
SS> lim x ===> 0 is to coming close to 0
SS> This is mathematics, John, not Quantum Nightcrawlers.
Which, dear sir, seems to be the main reason it misleads so many so
well. The above is 'limits,' equivalent in both directions. The
_concepts_ --the mindstuff-- behind 'zero' and 'infinity,' however, are
neither of them primarily _mathematical_ ones.
JB> At far reaches of the former, "more and more" becomes visible, while
JB> at far reaches of the latter, one faintly detects the cancellation of
JB> everything: at that lowest 'limit' is _NOTHING_. IOW, the two ends
JB> are equivalent in imagination, but not equivalent in character. In
JB> imagination, one adds and adds and adds to 'infinity,' without end,
JB> but one subtracts and subtracts, and sees oneself approaching an awful
JB> nothingness in the other direction.
SS> How shocking. Mathematically, I can push the limit equally in either
SS> direction.
Mathematically, you can. You must have missed the difference between
"math" and "reality." "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit more easily
than can "infinity." In imaging, zero _stops_ thought, but 'infinity'
does not. (Can not.)
SS> lim x/1 as x ---> infinity = lim 1/x as x ---> 0
SS> You're debunked, Bait Son.
I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
(Thank God for small favors.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Tagline: "Tag! You're it!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:23:02
EID:fff3 226152e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 f85bc3df
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33179960
On 01 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
JB> No, if a stance can't be defended in some way, it must be modified or
JB> scrapped. Watch this:
JB> 6 - 6 = 0 (and as you recall, "zero" means "nothing").
DC> No, John. You still fail to grasp what should be obvious
DC> to you. Your "numberline" does not work. Zero exists.
What's 'obvious' to me is that the whole discussion is mixing up two
fundamentally different systems of thought, the discrete, in which an
'existent nonexistent entity' is an oxmoron, and the continuous (the
number line, which my [block] line is NOT), in which a 'zero' concept is
apparently necessary. (Zero "exists," but isn't a discrete existent-
positive (as opposed to existent-negative, or nonexistent) 'thing.'
Numbers are not things, they are abstractions of things. "Blocks" are
things. A 'zero block' is an obvious oxymoron.)
JB> (IOW, lemme be self-consistent: since "zero" does not exist in
JB> [blocks] (infinitesimals), I shall use _my_ method, and arrive at the
JB> correct answer:
DC> Do you really enjoy the twisting and squirming that you do
DC> to make your "math" work?
(??!!) Of _course_! Why would I try to think my way into or out of
logical binds if it weren't _fun_? It's also educational: I'm educated
primarily by exploring all ways I can come up with, to justify a
proposition, and, like in science, if I'm _falsified_, I _learn_. If
I'm not _falsified_, however, but am rather merely _defined_-out of
correctness (someone's arbitrary axioms are reached and exposed by my
effort), than I _also_ learn, but what I learn in that case is "what's
accepted practice" rather than "what's utterly true."
I don't believe in rote learning, nor in accepting what's told me as
final while there remain askable questions or uncoverable counters.
Perhaps arguing interminably with creationists has made me less willing
to accept something just because "somebody says so."
JB> and its axioms just don't quite match those of the math Robert's class
JB> teaches. Hence, no one's going to need a transfusion.
DC> BTW, just what blood type are you, JIC?
JB> Who is JIC, O Dan-O?
JB> (*grin*)
DC> You shouldn't be grinning, John. It's 'Just In Case' you
DC> loose too much blood from your serious injuries.
(I was (*grin*)ing because my response answered your question.)
(Twice.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Thinkers travel in cognito.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:41:11
EID:fff3 22615520
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5890d21e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33179ab2
On 01 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
JB> I caught the hint earlier, but ignored it. My assumption was always
DC> See, David, he knew it all along but ignored it!
JB> "Earlier" was barely a week ago. Before that, I had no idea Mark
JB> Kimes was "Hector Plasmic."
DC> How long have you been at least a little bit active in this Echo,
DC> John? Do you ever bother to read anything at all that is not
DC> addressed to you or has the Quantum Baitshop attatched to it?
There's an awful LOT of traffic in this echo.
I don't _read_ most of the QB-origin line ones unless they have
something worth commenting on. They seldom do. Mostly the echo's full
of "you're wrong!" "No, you're wrong," and such like, plus a mess of
"you're an idiot!"s... Mostly, the bait shoppe lines are just a bother,
increasing the time it takes to do my keyword-scans of message bodies.
In Mark's case, I saw no direct references to the two being the same
person, and I'm not all _that_ good at regognizing writing styles. One
anti-theist popping off reads pretty much like another antitheist
popping off, just as one Fundie reads pretty much like another.
DC> Al Schroeder welcomed Mark back into the Echo and referred to
DC> him as Hector quite some time again.
Missed it. So? Last mention of Hec I saw was something about him being
_dead_. That was months ago.
DC> The Echo does not revolve around your "quantum god", John. I'm
DC> sure that many ignore all of your references to one, especially
DC> the fundys.
Oh, _especially_ the Fundies.... --both types.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "There can be only One." --Connor McLeod
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:16:33
EID:ab28 22615a00
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 d4e759dd
REPLY: 1:123/67 3315bc53
On 27 Feb 97, Shelby Sherman wrote:
SS> SS>> What about a point on a curve, Bait Boy?
JB> Curve is line.
SS> SS>> Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
Oxymoron. No change can occur in an "instant" unless the "instant" has
temporal width. Usually "instant" is not thought of as having duration.
See Zeno. (Not Zero.) (*grin*)
JB> Functions and limits?
SS> No, an instataneous rate of change, just like I asked. This is
SS> commonly known as the derivate of a function, not limits or a
SS> function. You do
SS> know what a function is, don't you? Repeat after me...for every value
SS> of x there can be one and only value for y.
Yeah, I'm struggling through a primer....
Mapping one set onto another requires a "function," which has the
"function" of controlling the mapping....
JB> Oh, you don't want to start _that_ shit here, do you?
SS> Oh, I'll probably start any sort of shit I please.
Quite likely....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Fundamentalism (n.): fund = give cash to; a-mentalism = mindlessness
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:19:33
EID:e338 22615a60
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a6fb9856
REPLY: 1:123/67 3315be2b
On 27 Feb 97, Shelby Sherman wrote:
SS> 25 Feb 97 21:03, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB> Limits are excuses, made necessary by a need to avoid "infinitesimal"
JB> increments of motion or time.
SS> Motion or time? Not all limits involve infinity, John.
Agreed. My "primer" --the Berlinski book that Robert objects to so
strongly-- says Leibniz's original grasp (the beginnings of the
calculus) was in thinking about motion and time. There, the concept of
a 'limit' is clearly explained. I don't like it any better now that I
understand it more, than I did when I didn't. It's just a way of
avoiding infinitesimal-discrete increments, so that continuousness can
be preserved in the math.
(on calculus)
SS> That was in the late 60's but I don't think things have changed that
SS> much.
Probably not.
SS> JB>> Spit it out, boys, if you know it, or admit I'm right that there
SS> JB>> are just _some_ concepts that don't _have_ "standard math"
SS> JB>> formatting.
SS> SS>> Just what is your mathematical background, John?
JB> Who gives a damn? Surely not you.
JB> I got straight 'A's in HS geometry.
SS> I see.
See what? That I don't have "high enough" math to be able to think
thoughts about math?
JB> My question has apparently no answer in math, and barely is
JB> addressable by topology. Some have said that claim's bogus; now we're
JB> seeing it isn't.
SS> I got in late on your question, but it seems that most in here
SS> disagree with you.
So what _else_ is new, sir?
Some agree. I'm trying to get a 'standard math' phrasing for a
difficult-to-describe, apparently topological concept, "that distance
(or separation) less than which, two points coalesce to become one
point." I can't find an equivalent standard math phrasing; no one else
has come up with one; some have said it doesn't exist, is meaningless,
is a product of my twisted imagination, or is irrelevant; I claimed it
didn't exist; _they_ seem to think it doesn't-----and you think they're
_disagreeing_ with me?
They're _agreeing_ with me, except for lone Robert, that that phrasing
doesn't exist, and lone Robert has yet to show the math-equivalent
phrasing in this echo. Now you're (prejudicially, since I'm the
claimee) up to date. (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... It's probably Probability....
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:32:30
EID:aeee 22615c00
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 1e67736b
On 26 Feb 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
JB> Take away the sixth and last one:
JB> [-2][-1] *
JB> 6 5 4 3 2 1
JB> Now, are you standing ON the [-1] block? No.....
JB> So what are you standing ON? (Nothing. "Zero.")
JB> (*cackle!*))
JB> Have a happy! Think I'll copy that to Dan.
RH> Oh nonsense, John. What is 6 - 1, your way?
Subtract the one block, count what's left without going negative:
<--- *
[-2][-1][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][___][+7]
5 4 3 2 1
Five.
Or, remove the (subtract the) [+1] block and count the remainder
forwards:
*
[-2][-1]___[+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
1 2 3 4 5
Still five....
RH> Why, zero! That's what you are standing on, right?
No, by the time I have removed the [+6] block ("6 minus 1"), _and_
counted what's left over of the positive blocks (starting ON the first
of the blocks to be counted), I am standing ON the fifth block from the
one I started my post-subtraction count ON.
RH> The answer is the block you are standing on. You MUST
RH> stand on a block.
I _Must_?? Why? I can stand on a block, or on the empty spot where a
block used to be... Same difference, basically.
RH> What is 6 - 0? It's _6_, the block you are _still_
RH> standing on.
Right. So? In that case I have removed no blocks at all, so of
_course_ I'm still standing on the 6 block. (*grin*)
See how confusing a discrete-block line gets if you stick a silly ol'
"zero block" in there where it's not needed?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... A stopped clock is correct twice a day, but a military clock only once.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:49:10
EID:f8e4 22615e20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 67508d69
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 21731c5f
On 27 Feb 97, Katherine Wintersnight wrote:
JB> KW> JB>Thank you. If I can't get Worrell and company to remove my name
JB> KW> from JB>their _origin_lines_, at least I can ask that these lie(s)
not
JB> KW> JB>included in various registries.... (*grin*)
JB> KW> John, the fastest way to do that is to develop a sense of humor
about
JB> KW> the whole thing. The origin lines are funny, but the bee stung
JB> KW> howling from you is even funnier. And if I hadn't decided that
any
KW> JB>(*chuckle*) You're no brighter than they are, apparently....
KW> Well, I'm bright enough not to need to try and boast about it,
KW> Sweetcheeks.
You're not bright enough to avoid seeing "stung howling" where no such
ever existed, HoneyDove....
I keep telling, but no one's listening: I am not anywhere _near_ as
bothered as y'all seem pleased to think I am. Nobody gets it.
So what else is new?
KW> JB>Sorry, Katherine, but the shoe's not on the foot you think it is.
KW> JB>My sense of humor is not only intact, but is also both subtle and
KW> JB>sometimes downright convoluted. Whom do you credit for keeping
KW> this JB>thing alive this long? those buffoons, or me?
KW> Them.
Right. You're not as ignorant as you let on.
KW> You come off about as effective or bright as a kitten chasing a
KW> wad of tin foil.
You might give that analogy some careful thought. It's more accurate
than most of these others seem to think.....
KW> Face it, John, you're only real recognition comes
KW> from running a bait shop. Other than that, you're just another crank
KW> in the crowd.
Hence the specific word "Quantum?" Really.
Face it Katherine; _Worrell_ runs the "bait shop"; he's just using my
name on it without paying a royalty, and he has no bait to sell. I just
happen to like the basic idea of "quantum bait," as in: baiting the hook
to lure the fishies in to bite on quantum mechanics." Worrell doubtless
thinks of "quantum bait" pejoratively, as in: "ludicrously useless."
Is it a "{quantum-bait} _shop_," or a "quantum {bait-shop}?"
I think of the potential catch as very worthwhile indeed.
"Bait to get fish to bite on quantum mechanics," rather than
"bait that looks like quantum mechanics" or a shop that's as confusing
and counterintuitive as quantum mechanics is.
If _I_ ran the shop, most of these guys wouldn't have the wherewithal to
purchase the bait anyway, much less the talent to catch fish with it.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... An open mind should not be mistaken for an open dumpster.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 01 Mar 97 12:07:35
EID:fff3 226160e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 4030a246
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33179838
On 01 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 25 Feb 97 22:12:38, ROBERT CURRY got back to JOHN BRAWLEY
RS> [-3][-2][-1][0][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
RS> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
JB> You have to start counting by 'stepping forward' OFF of the
RC> In my experience playing math games with dozens of children, none
RC> have ever had any trouble with this very intuitive notion, John.
DC> Well, what can you say? You tried.
JB> We don't count marbles
RC> You've lost your marbles. Count the STEPS.
DC> And, you came back really hard to hammer in the point.
DC> Do you think it will penetrate? And, where is Leipzig when you
DC> need a diamond-studded drill bit?
Marty's probably intelligent and knowledgeable enough to catch the real
source of the problem right off the bat: conflict between discrete and
continuous systems.
I'm not arguing because I think I'm _right_ mathematically; I'm arguing
because the concept of a "zero marble" or a "zero block" is NOT
intuitive, nor is it imho really defensible except in the usual told-to-
kids way: "don't argue with me; that's just the way it is!"
There is clear conflict. No kid counts marbles by calling the first
marble counted, the "number zero marble." And no kid counts a set of
black marbles plus a set of white marbles, by sticking an _invisible_
and nonpresent "grey" marble in between the finish of one set and the
start of the other set, and counting it as a marble.
Talk about counterintuitive?
It must be resolved. As we argue, ways towards that resolution may or
may not appear. I personally think it's already settled, by showing
_where_ "zero" actually appears, not as a block, but as the "number"
_between_ blocks, thus:
| | | | | | |
|[-3]|[-2]|[-1]|[+1]|[+2]|[+3]|
| | | | | | |
-3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3
And thus also, _every_ number in the continuous number line is a NO-
width dividing line, while _every_ discrete "infinitesimal" is in a
geometric sense a nonzero-width item, and a "zero" nonzero-width item
becomes simply an oxymoron.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If God is real, we will not find Him 'outside' of reality.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Confirm supplication
|Date: 01 Mar 97 12:22:49
EID:e1d8 226162c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 c383fa2f
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33179f08
On 01 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> ... +Origin: John Brawley's African Quantum Muti Emporium, SA
Oh, for Pity's sake....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... I'm sorry -- my karma ran over your dogma.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Triplett
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 02 Mar 97 23:12:24
EID:0508 2262b980
MSGID: 1:352/28.0 8AA20682
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 94-0195
-> SA>-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to All <=-
->
-> SA> KW> WHO'S WHO: THE ALIGNMENT LIST:
->
-> SA> Wow...I'm at the top!!!
->
-> SA> Probably time time to put my 2 pennies in.
->
-> SA> KW> Name Location Alignment I
->
-> SA> Sue Alexander Madison, WI USA. agnostic and a
-> SA> aStaalist
-> 3 yrs,
-> SA> m
-> SA> l
->
->
->
-> The corrections are already on the web page
-> (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html) and will show up in
-> the first of the month posting here.
-> ---
-> * OLXWin 1.00a * duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-Dan Triplett
->
->
-> --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
-> * Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes
-> (1:381/123)
Wow....I made it to the tagline fame....I am honored....Dan Triplett
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: R-Squared BBS (1:352/28.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 352/28 3 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:51
EID:8d7a 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 1614464a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> KY> affection just as heterosexual should. But, many gays do cause scenes
KY> KY> about their lifestyle, and often make a point of people knowing
they
KY> KY> are gay, without any reason.
KY> DW> So do many heterosexuals, Ken. Your point?
KY>FUnny, I must have missed the news stories of the "Straight Rights" rallies..
There are plenty of them. Dedicated to *denying* the rights they
already have to others.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Better to light one fundy than curse the darkness.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:51
EID:aabe 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 1614464b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> KY> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
KY> KY> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
KY> KY> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
KY> DW> I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato
KY> DW> plant before. Or any "wild" vegetable, for that matter.
KY>Fine, I'll rephrase it.. "Genetically ENGINEERED foods."
Aren't you laboring under the belief that plants were 'created'?
How much more engineering could there *BE* under that scenario?
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Jesus. The same yesterday, today & forever. Dead.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Mario Gonzalez
|Sub: clones
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:7e21 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 1614464d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
MG> KS> Well, 'Dolly', the first actual adult mammal clone is alive and
well.
MG> KS> Coincidentally, she's a sheep.
MG> KS> I'm having a devil (oops) of a time trying to figure out what impact
MG> KS> this will have on fundys...
MG> people with no souls roaming the planet!
Better that than what we have now; fundys with no MINDS roaming...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Listen: this is real bizarre: 'datum' is and 'data' are.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Goofiness.
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:f1f2 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 1614464e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
SA>Just saw on the AANews mailing list where some Republican yahoo
SA>(Thomas Colson R-Oklahoma) admonished NBC for showing, unedited,
SA>"Schindler's List". Got his panties all in a knot over
SA>"full-frontal nudity, violence, and profanity".
SA>of irrational hatred can reap. But then, said representative
SA>belongs to some sort of Christian "pro-family" group, so he probably
SA>doesn't like to admit what hatred can do.
Here's some info from 'the horse's mouth', as it were. The rep. is
Tom A. Coburn. I have known him personally, VERY well since 1969
when I became chief pilot for his father's company, Coburn Optical
Industries. I don't know if you know much about corporate pilots,
but they are in a unique position to know and observe the executives
of the company much more intimately than other employees, since they
typically not only 'drive the airplane', but are, obviously, in close
proximity to them during out-of-town journeys. There are other
concomitant 'duties' which are more often than not, performed by
their aerial chauffeurs, including but not limited to procurement
of hookers and booze, picking them up off the sidewalk when they
overindulge and pass out, and endure their wrath when they want to
travel to another city in the middle of the night and cannot under-
stand why the pilot would not rather expose them (and himself) to
weather conditions that would dissuade Evil Kneivel from taking to
the air.
Now, Mr. Tom Coburn, his brothers Dave and Jim and Tom's uncle, John
are all multimillionaires. From inhertinence from O. W. Coburn who
was the founder/owner of the Co.;most of which largesse was acquired by
exploitation of their employees (particularly the engineering staff
of which I was, in addition to being their pilot, a part).
As far as I know, Tom is the only one who claims to be a 'Born-Again
Christian'. I don't know when or how this happened, if it's true,
but it may have something to do with his recovery from cancer a few
years ago, when he lived in Virginia. (I believe his wife was/is
a fundy, but I don't recall anything about this in spite of the dozens
of times I flew them about the country). But at any rate, the claim
plays pretty well around this part of the bible belt. (I do know,
however, there was well over a million bucks spent on medical treatment
for him). (Another note: The old man, O.W. gave Anal (oops, Oral)
Roberts 5 million not long before he croaked. Not a fucking cent to
the people who made him all that money. I strongly suspect it was
his way of persuading himself he might just, after years of debauchery,
buy his way into 'hevvin').
Bottom line is, he's a loony. He was a snotty, sanctimonious little
prick when he was 17 and I see no change from this vantage point.
There is an AWFUL lot of negativity around this area since his
pontifications on Schindler, even from 'supporters' which I proudly
am not one of. (In case you didn't catch it, I'm in his district...)
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Born again? No, I don't think my mom would appreciate it.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:07a6 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 1614464f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> DW> Really? Feel like going a couple of rounds with Evander
KY> DW> Hollyfield? We'll even let you bring your pet God in
KY> DW> the ring to help you out.
KY>Maybe that's where his strength comes from.. He's supposed to be a Christian
KY>too.
Yeah, right. "Thank you Jesus for helping me beat the living shit
outta that guy"...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Fundy brains for rent. Never used. Call 555-2132
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Confused Ken?
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:8a0e 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 16144650
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> Jd> Five messages ago, you said we were to have "free will"!
KY> Jd> Now, we're to "follow"......
KY> Jd> GUFFAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KY>We have the free will to follow or not to follow.. It is our choice..
Ah. 'Follow or go to hell'. Some fucking choice.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Fundys are like computers, they have lots of flip-flops.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:81c2 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 16144651
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY>Not like this was the first time. A year ago, they did the very same
thing.
KY>And no, currently I am church hunting..
Oh? I didn't know the season had opened...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Jesus. The same yesterday, today & forever. Dead.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:06:52
EID:39cf 226258c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 318 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 16144652
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
LA> la> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford University,
UK),
LA> la> "The necessity of Darwinism". New Scientist, vol.94, 15 April 1982,
LA> la> p.130.)
LA>JM> Laurie... are you _STILL_ trying to use this misquote?
LA> It is not a misquote and you know it!
If you can manage to keep shoving your head further up your ass,
you'll eventually disappear. Please hurry.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ If a fundy knew 9 more things, he'd be an idiot.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/551 500 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Kwisatz Haderach
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: clones da sheep
|Date: 03 Mar 97 02:51:04
EID:f7a7 22631660
REPLY: 3:711/933 3319bc87
REALNAME: Paul Muad'dib
MSGID: 1:147/69.0 331a82e8
In a message to an Anti-Fundy, Anthony G-S sez:
AG> I have no idea what impact this will have on "fundies" but it will have
no
AG> impact on Christians. I fail to see how a cloned sheep
AG> can have anything to do with Christianity.
Religion encysts past mythologies, guesses, hidden assumptions of
trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal
power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an
unspoken commandment: Thou shall not question!
-Bene Gesserit Axon
Xtianists often feel the need to interfer with science (see the histories
of early astronomers such as Galileo), especially when they perceive science
to be threatening their world view. Personally, I think that this interference
to be related to their own insecurities concerning their beliefs, but that
is neither here nor there. Xtianists have a long history of feeling
threatened and often respond without real thought or reason to discoveries
contradicting their world view.
Evolution has taken man about as far as he can go (at least presently),
it
is now up to man to take matters in his own hands to improve on the species.
It is only a matter of time before Xtianists see this as "playing gawd"
and
start whining about it.
Kwisatz Haderach
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Found Jesus and I am HIM! jesus.christ@webcitement.com (1:147/69)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 147/69 34 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ray Talley
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Re: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 28 Feb 97 09:15:20
EID:078c 225c49e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 331a2acf
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Martin Goldberg <=-
MG>authority". Do you have any evidence that this fellow has any evidence
MG>for his belief in god? If he has any, I'd love to see it. Your
LA> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
LA> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
LA> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
LA> intelligent Designer."
LA>
LA> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
LA> University, UK), "The necessity of Darwinism". New
LA> Scientist, vol.94, 15 April 1982, p.130.)
LA>
LA> Laurie
Has anyone pointed out that the use of the word 'superfically' changes
the meaning of Dawkins statement? Maybe you should look it up in your
Fundy to English dictionary.
You are not even smart enough to to correctly quote things out of context,
yet you wonder why no one credits you with understanding the work you
misquote. LOL!
By the way the text goes on to say (even demonstrate) that EVIL-U-TION
is not dependant on blind chance. You would know that if you had
actually read it instead of just spewing back the lies your masters
have taught you.
... Why be born again when you can simply grow up?
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 121/45 8 106/2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Notice that
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:01
EID:ba91 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 40248535
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: (would you believe a grown man who can't count?)
RC> In my experience playing math games with dozens of children,
RC> none have ever had any trouble with this very intuitive
RC> notion, John.
DC> Well, what can you say? You tried.
JB> We don't count marbles
RC> You've lost your marbles. Count the STEPS.
DC> And, you came back really hard to hammer in the point.
DC> Do you think it will penetrate?
Does it really matter? I doubt that even if Herr Brawley were
to come to his sense on any particular point, that it would make
little or no difference to his crackpot habits in general.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: Quantum crackpot brawley
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:02
EID:29b1 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 40248536
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Do let me know when you finally decide to try formal accuracy
RC> on the subject of infinitesimals, OK?
JB> Why? You've already stated you won't give me any information,
JB> so what's the point?
My dear Mr. Lazybones, I refused to perform for you what you could
quite readily accomplish yourself just by getting off your ass
to check some very easy and simple homework -- stuff that anyone
with an ounce of brains and a little motivation could do.
That is exactly as it should be, don't you think?
If you show that you are willing to make that minimal effort, then
I will now (as always) be more than happy to assist you in those
mathematical matters which extend somewhat beyond the basics.
JB> It's clear (been clear for quite a while) that the "formal"
JB> way of dealing with infinitesimal _points_ does not serve me.
Have you suddenly LEARNED the formal way of dealing with them,
John? Since when? Did you finally check the two works by Robinson
that I cited for you? Something tells me that you haven't.
JB> You can't define "point" or "line" without reference to each
JB> other. It's circular.
I've already explained your error. How do you define a point with
reference to a line when the point exists in a space of dimension
less then one? (Hint: you can't, as lines require at least one
dimension.)
Debunked.
Next:
JB> As I said, the formal system(s) in place do not have the
JB> necessary concept-structures behind them.
Since when have you become so knowledgeable about every formal
mathematical system, John? Please enlighten the echo with these
details of your expert qualifications.
Is it just your ego speaking, or have you acquired omniscience?
JB> You have shown me nothing different, and your use of "an
JB> infinitesimal called zero" is just plain _ludicrous_. Sorry.
See _Infinitesimal Analysis_ by Abraham Robinson.
Or _On Numbers and Games_ by John Conway.
Yes, you *should* apologize for pompously proclaiming that your
ignorance is superior to someone else's knowledge. What a buffoon!
Talk about being _ludicrous_! You exemplify the term.
JB> You can't help me, even if you wanted to.
I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist, no.
JB> I take it you have decided the Berlinski book does NOT "prove
JB> informative" for me, in a basic, remedial sense? Y/N?
Nothing can help a crackpot who refuses to learn, John.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:03
EID:60aa 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 40248537
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Oh? What page numbers support your blaming Berlinski for your
RC> belief that Leibniz (or anyone) thought of infinitesimals as
RC> discrete entities?
JB> David Berlinski; _A_Tour_of_the_Calculus_; p 100-111:
JB> [underscores = italics in the original]
Ah, an imaginary "illustrative" episode. Let's see why you think
that it says infinitesimals are discrete:
JB> "The steady rhythmic ticking of the clock prompts Leibnitz
JB> [sic] to imagine the sounds suspended in space;
JB> "Whatever the distance, he thinks, half forming the words,
JB> thinking almost in images,
Nothing yet, besides a brief example of Berlinski's "style."
JB> it is yet _some_ distance that my hand has moved, whatever the
JB> time, it is yet _some_ time that my fingers have measured.
JB> Leibnitz looks closely at his own well-made hand, the left one
JB> resting on the desk's edge, a manly network of veins running
JB> from the top of his wrist forward to his fingers.
ROFL! Oh, you picked a real good math book, John.
JB> _Yes_infinitely_ small, but still, it is not nothing, that
JB> distance. And if that distance is not nothing, _it_must_be_
JB> _represented_by_a_number_. Not a genuine number, he thinks,
JB> adjusting his thoughts to account for his own audacity, but a
JB> useful fiction, an imaginary object. And it must be _smaller_
JB> than any other number.
I.e., an infinitesimal is smaller than any positive real number.
JB> You may, or may not, read on from there, as you wish,
No kidding. Still nothing cited where Berlinski says that Leibniz
thought of infinitesimal numbers being *discrete* rather than
continuous or variable quantities. The continuum of infinitesimals
is such that any infinitesimal is smaller than any real number
(as in both Robinson's hyperreal number system that includes reals
and infinitesimals, and also Conway's surreal number system which
is even richer in the variety of numbers included).
So where's the part that says that Leibniz thought of infinitesimals
as being _discrete_? It sure looks like that was entirely *your*
assumption, John.
I will grant you that Berlinski is such a hideous author that he
does little or nothing to dissuade you of your incorrect assumption,
but it is merely your very own assumption, John, that misled you.
JB> IF I misunderstood this, I can't for the life o' me see
JB> _where_. Looks like Leibniz is dealing in artificially created
JB> _discrete_ infinitesimals of time and/or distance, to _me_.
What EXACTLY led you to think that Berlinski meant to say Leibniz
thought of infinitesimal quantities as being discrete rather than
continuous or variable entities?
JB> So blame me? Or blame Berlinski?
There appears to be enough to go around for both of you.
Berlinski is especially stupid in his appendix to the chapter from
which you quoted. Although he does manage to save himself from a
very obvious error by including the footnote which points out his
proclamation really applies only to fields with the archimedian
property, his final remark about "a very great price in plausibility"
is ridiculous. I have no doubt that Leibniz would have found the
well-defined infinitesimals quite plausible, if only he had lived
to see them. They are certainly just as rigorous (in the strictest
mathematical sense) as the reformulation of calculus by means
of limits (due largely to Weierstrass, btw, a fact that Berlinski
shamefully omits).
So.
Now that you have learned how to spell "Leibniz" correctly, it
is about time also for you to learn how infinitesimals are actually
defined correctly. Do you think you are up to it?
Are you willing to exert at least some minimal effort to learn?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: deserving of help
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:04
EID:c563 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 40248538
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Some months ago when I was humoring you, I suggested helping
RC> you with your math problems on this and other matters.
JB> You are inconsistent, if so.... Make up your mind: help, or
JB> do not help.
There's no inconsistency in offering help to someone who is willing
to put some reasonable effort into learning while refusing to do
your elementary homework FOR YOU.
Is the difference truly so hard for you to fathom?
Those who are serious students deserve help; as opposed to those
who are merely lazy ass motherfuckers demanding that their homework
answers be handed to them on a silver platter -- they deserve only
contempt and ridicule. The choice, John, is entirely yours.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: once again
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:05
EID:87dc 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 40248539
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> what you are looking for is [...] a way of phrasing that
RC> there is a minimum distance, d, such that no two points can
RC> be located nearer that than that minimal distance. Isn't
RC> that correct?
JB> That is correct.
Pardon the repetition, then, but just in case you missed it the
first two times, I strongly advise using the nonnegative integers
(you can hardly find a mathematical notion any more standard than
the integers!).
They can provide you with discrete values for your metric, and
further satisfy the requirement that there exist a smallest positive
value for this metric.
Any objection to that? Adjustments can be made easily.
JB> I can work with it; I just can't _justify_ it (to certain
JB> niggling mathematical types around eher and elsewhere)
JB> without being able to _phrase_ it in some 'standard' format
JB> that they will accept.
You poor dear. If you need help justifying your mathematical
phrasing, why don't you try being polite to someone who can help
you overcome these difficulties that have plagued you for so long?
Surely you don't have an ego getting in the way of that, do you?
JB> I will try, despite your inconsistency in telling me you
JB> won't, now telling me you will....
I won't do your elementary homework exercises, John, EVER. That is
nonnegotiable. But I will always help those who are willing to put
some real effort into learning. Is this policy confusing to you?
JB> That is, without an "acceptable" way of describing two
JB> dimensionless points which are not the same point (not
JB> coalesced), there is no way to justify that _dimension_
JB> exists in the construct, when all that 'exists' is
JB> _dimensionless_ (but "real") points.
I've provided you with this hint before: Graph Theory.
JB> (The "problem of the 13 spheres.")
Already solved. Didn't you know that? Or is it still your pet dogma
that nothing in "standard math" can possibly help you?
JB> I must do so within NO background space, so as to form a
JB> "naked network."
Many moons ago, I referred you to Graph Theory. That was before your
intrinsic laziness came to light in such an unavoidable and undeniable
manner. Allow me to remind you again, now. Graphs, in this context,
are just networks of points.
Suprised?
You didn't think "standard math" already included your notions;
however, that was only because you are ignorant of just how vast
a range of notions is encompassed by the many branches of math.
Wouldn't it be less pompous and more productive for you to LEARN?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: ...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 02:38:06
EID:872f 226214c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 4024853a
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> Recommend some books that will subliminally teach me both
JB> plane and solid geometry.
Subliminally? :-)
An interesting request. More information about what you need could
help narrow this down to something useful.
JB> I really don't want to study this stuff...I really want to
JB> use the graphic ray-tracing program I got. Bought the one
JB> that said EASY to use. (looked at some others and almost
JB> fainted) Said 'SIMPLE' interface. Said 'customizable' templates.
JB> All docs, all paragraphs end with CHECK YOUR MATH.
Always good advice. You could check it by running the program
to render your image, but that can be a very time-consuming process
indeed.
JB> Any good PROGRAMS that'd do the math for me?
Well, that depends. What software did you get?
JB> Banging my head on the desk in frustration.
Ouch!
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: ...
|Date: 01 Mar 97 13:06:30
EID:c77c 226168c0
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 dec83abb
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331673f2
TID: GE/32 1.2
QF>> It wasn't *that* much of a sacrifice. He's still alive, after all.
KY> Uh, you try being crucified in that way, and see if you like it very
KY> much.
Three hours would be an utterly insignificant amount of time to an immortal
being.
... Scotland - where the men are men, and the sheep are twice as nervous.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: clones
|Date: 01 Mar 97 14:41:14
EID:69ec 22617520
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 bd3259b4
REPLY: 1:124/9005 33174476
TID: GE/32 1.2
SQ> "Robertson Cloned from Dandruff, News at 11!"
But a man made from dandruff? He'd disintegrate if he used medicated shampoo.
... Scotland - where the men are men, and the sheep are twice as nervous.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: NORMAN SOLOMON
|Sub: worst danger
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:36:15
EID:79c0 22626c80
MSGID: 1:3603/210 407d7dc4
TID: GE/2 1.2
NS> Religion has always been the worst danger faceing mankind,
NS> when God is removed from it and replaced by what the
NS> pastor, dogma, peer groups etc. says.
Without the pastor, dogma, and peer groups, what exactly is left
of any god aside from individual make believe?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: death by whining
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:00
EID:ba9a 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b2775
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> if I wanted to speak with *&%__you__%&* ("o, wise and superior
JB>> mathematical expert")),
RC> I daresay that compared to you, most first graders are "wise and
RC> superior mathematical experts," John.
JB> (*sigh*) Never cease overstating cases, do you?
I meant it seriously and literally. I know first graders who have a
better grasp of mathematical basics than you have displayed here,
including a better grasp of adding and subtracting on a number line.
JB> Sure! "I disseminate mathematical misinformation."
Congratulations. To admit that you have a problem is the most
important step in learning to overcome it.
JB> Now, can we cease slapping each other, terminate the thread,
JB> or go on to greater things?
Admitting your problem, however important a step that may be, is still
only the FIRST step, John. You have a long way to go in your battle
against the egotism that drives you to pompous declarations like this:
JB> I _will_ persist in claiming 'standard' math does not have
JB> the formal concepts enabling me to justify the axiomatic
JB> underpinnings of my "Tetrahedraverse" concept-structure.
How can you justifiably make such a claim when you are doing so
completely from ignorance? Moreover, your ignorance of "standard math"
is not something beyond your ability to cure -- there are references
and resources available, if only you could set aside the overblown
egotism which prevents you from admitting you really just don't know.
JB> Some others here have amply confirmed that,
Who? Name them.
I would be willing to bet almost anyone else here is more amenable
to reason than you have shown yourself to be.
JB> and since you've refused to counter with anything definitively
JB> oppositional, I have no choice but to assume you agree.
I cannot very well "counter" the voices you hear in your head, John,
since I'm not privy to your conversations with them. As for your
assumptions, they have led you to many other ridiculous positions,
so why should anyone expect differently from you this time?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: responsibility
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:01
EID:9a7e 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b2776
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Of course you blame anyone but yourself, because you have no
RC> idea what it means to accept responsibility for your own mistake
RC> in mindlessly and gullibly repeating the mistakes of others.
JB> One is not guilty of "repeating" a _mistake_ unless one _knows_
JB> it is a mistake. The same is true of a Fundie-cretinist repeating
JB> ICR lies; he is not a liar himself, he's just repeating what
JB> he _thinks_ (or _believes_, in the case of a Fundie) is true. If
JB> you want to call him a liar anyway, well, that's your business,
JB> but it's a cognitive distortion--"mislabelling"--to do so.
Did I call you a liar, John?
(The answer is no.)
Shame on you for implying otherwise.
Now, do you renounce all personal responsibility for your repetition
of mistakes simply because you didn't know any better than to do so?
As I see it, that renouncing of personal responsibility is a major
part of your problem. Like other lazy people who are easily duped
by the ICR and their own religious preconceptions, so are you easily
duped by your idiot assumptions and crackpot egotism.
JB> You didn't answer my second question. I've asked it now several
JB> times, watching for the answer that'd lead me to believe _you_
JB> know what you're talking about. You've snuck around it each
JB> time, including this time.
JB> Did you READ the Berlinski book, or are you just talkin' through
JB> your hat?
Apparantly an elephant could sneak around your inattentiveness, John.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: pester a professor
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:02
EID:bdb2 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b2777
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> I'd actually rather pay a professor for a few hours' discussion,
JB> but my finances may prohibit that.
I'm sure that any university professor would jump at the chance to
hold long, pointless discussions with a certified lazy-ass crackpot.
JB> But on our specific subject of discussion: I've already found
JB> that what I need doesn't exist,
How exactly did you ascertain that? Divination?
JB> so what's the point in beating a library to death looking for
JB> what ain't there?
By what means did you determine it "ain't there?" Because you said so?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: !
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:03
EID:7cfd 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b2778
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> There's a difference between an ignoramus maintaining an
JB> ignorant position,
A John Brawley.
JB> and a man outta his field already having had years of
JB> conversations from which he concludes that what he wants
JB> doesn't actually exist...
And a John Brawley again. What's the real difference? Both fit you.
RC> So who was it that hated you enough to suggest Berlinski?
JB> I guess it was me. (*grin*) I saw a blurb in _Science_News_,
JB> which I trust, and bought it.
So you fall for ads, but balk at doing a little research at a library.
JB> For me, despite Berlinski's literally awful and self-indulgent
JB> story-telling techniques, his book was _just_ what I needed,
JB> to start. I'm still not finished with it,
I am, but the book's not due back just yet.
JB> since when he got into the "hard stuff" and formulae began to
JB> appear more often, I read the text and avoided the formulae.
Besides a smattering of examples dealing with integration near the
end, there are few symbolic formulas in the book. At least he doesn't
screw *them* up.
JB> I have to go back and re-do some of it.
You would do far better to pick a different book entirely.
JB> I was (and am) interested primarily in the _underpinnings_of_
JB> _thought_, the basic concepts that led to what the calculus is
JB> now, not in the formal math techniques and methodologies that
JB> grew from those fundamental concepts.
Again, you would do better to pick a different book. I can hardly
believe that he completely omitted the conceptual contributions
of Weierstrass toward the development of calculus, for instance!
JB> For example, I knew, early on in the book, where it reveals that
JB> "infinitesimals" as discrete items were NOT going to be employed,
There is no mention in the book of infinitesimals as discrete items.
I read the book (including pages 110-111), and you are, as I expected,
full of shit.
JB> When Berlinski got beyond the early mention of Leibiz sitting
JB> in his redoubt and squeezing his fingers together, thinking
JB> about "the smallest possible number greater than zero,"
Why are you falsely labeling that as an exact quote, John, when it
is nothing more than your mistaken paraphrase?
Are you now going to blame Berlinski for that as well? Is every
mistake you make the fault of someone else, and never a matter for
your own personal responsibility?
Let me know when you decide to give up being an ignoramus maintaining
an ignorant position.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: John-boy's bijection
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:04
EID:8de6 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b2779
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> Are you saying, then, that the above quote refers only to mapping
JB> one topological object onto another, separate, topological
JB> object, and NOT necessarily to the points in the _same_ object?
JB> That is, should I interpret it to mean that points in the same
JB> object _can_ coalesce?
No.
A topological transformation may be imagined either as a continuous
deformation of a single object (hence the nickname of "rubber sheet
geometry"), or it may be imagined as a bijective mapping from one
topological object to another.
Feel free to use whichever of these visualizations you like best;
the math is the same in either case.
BTW, a bijection is a mapping that is 1-to-1, each point corresponding
to a unique point in either direction of the transformation.
JB>> From that, we suggest the concept of closeness. If we are
JB>> not allowed to _coalesce_ them, but are allowed to move
JB>> them around, then the idea of a minimum closeness before
JB>> coalescence is trivially obvious.
RC> Nonsense, John. You may get as close as you like, provided the
RC> distance is greater than ZERO.
JB> I don't see where that's different in principle from what I
JB> just said?
You said "minimum closeness" before zero. A minimum is a least value.
I pointed out that in topological transformations, which are continuous,
there is no such minimum value greater than zero. Graph Theory is
far better suited than Topology for discrete networks of points, John.
JB> So, what is the difference between "a minimum closeness before
JB> coalescence" (meaing minimal distance between) and "as close
JB> as you like, provided the distance is greater than ZERO?"
"As close as you like" means that no matter how close you get, you
always have the possibility of getting closer still, without reaching
zero (or "coalescence").
A "minimal distance between" two points means that there is a point
such that you cannot get any closer EXCEPT for zero (or "coalescence").
The former is a property of continuity; the latter is a property of
discreteness.
Clear enough?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: John-boy's standard
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:05
EID:1b50 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Perhaps it would help for you to identify just what you are
RC> thinking when you use the phrase "standard math."
JB> That which proceeds from axioms of Euclid, and/or Peano,
Oh? That would be incredibly limiting, if so!
JB> and which seems to be what my detractors are arguing from when
JB> claiming I can't start Tetrahedraverse with a single default
JB> point, and can't refer to a "sphere" unless I have a prior
JB> metric,
Well, the idea of a metric does not proceed from the axioms of either
Euclid or Peano, John. And it is true that you can't refer to a
sphere without implying the logically prior existence of a metric
(or at least SOME distance fuction), because a sphere is *defined*
as those points equidistant from a center.
If all you wish to do is to protect your ramblings from detractors
who pick apart your mathematical mistakes, the following method
will protect you from those particular criticisms:
Prepend your intuitive but not mathematically rigorous visualizations
with the phrase "intuitive notion of" -- as in the "intuitive notion
of a sphere" which you defer defining more precisely until a later
and suitable time. Obviously it can't be a sphere without a distance
function, but that is nonetheless the intuitive notion from which
you are starting, is it not? So let people know that your usage of
the term is intuitive and not yet rigorously defined. That immediately
eliminates any question of picking apart your definitions for these
visualizations, since you are not defining them right away.
Of course, it may result in your daydreams being dismissed as merely
crackpot fantasies, but that will be nothing new for you, right?
JB> Euclid's circular definitions of "line" and "point."
Euclid did not use circular definitions of those terms, John. What
he did was equivalent, however, to leaving them as undefined primitives.
JB> Lastly, and perhaps most inclusively, that math which limits
JB> itself to the preceptive condition "continuous," rather than
JB> discrete.
Good heavens! Then you exclude the integers -- which are surely the
oldest collection of discrete mathematical objects -- from what you
call "standard math?"
I suggest that you rethink your position about that. :-)
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: John-boy's x=1
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:06
EID:b4ef 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277b
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I suggest you stick with the simplest answer, using the integers.
RC> With that restriction to a discrete set, the answer is exactly one.
JB> We (I) simply desire an acceptable, unarguable, 'mathematically'
JB> nonobjectionable way to say or to write "that (minimum) distance
JB> less than which two points coalesce."
So use a discrete metric that takes on the nonnegative integers as
possible values, and the answer is exactly one. That will provide you
with a perfectly good solution, John.
Now if you later have concerns about proving this solution is unique
(that there can be no other logical possibilities), that's a more
involved and difficult matter. Nonetheless, I have provided what you
asked for: the math. Metaphysical mumbo-jumbo is your department.
JB>> If I am forced to neologisms
RC> You are not forced to coin those hideous creations, John.
JB> You weren't there.
Otherwise I would have informed you at the time that you didn't
need to create new (and silly) terms.
JB> It was either create a neologism or waste hour after hour
JB> arguing about whether or not my "point" and the mathematician's/
JB> geometer's 'point' were equivalent enough to let me use the
JB> word in text. I just capitulated,
You just keep making the wrong decisions, capitulating when there's
no good reason to do so, and sticking by your guns when your beliefs
are based solely upon ignorance and egotism. You poor guy.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: counting on a number line
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:07
EID:6f1d 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277c
TID: GE/2 1.2
RS> [-3][-2][-1][0][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
RS> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
RC> In my experience playing math games with dozens of children, none
RC> have ever had any trouble with this very intuitive notion, John.
RC> Think of the number blocks being drawn on a sidewalk in chalk,
RC> with kids standing in any integer's box, then counting their steps
RC> to any other box. It works every time.
JB> (You're talking about hopscotch? I don't have a picture of how
JB> that works; too long since.)
No. Draw a series of blocks in a line, and number them as Richard does
above. Then you can add and subtract simply by counting your steps.
Very intuitive -- try it before you answer.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: defined
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:08
EID:93b2 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277d
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> Define "point."
CH> A non-dimensional marker designating a location in space.
JB> I noticed that while he didn't use the word "line," he did make
JB> reference to a space, made necessary by his use of the word
JB> "location."
And when the space is of less than one dimension, John, it cannot
possily contain any lines, thus your claim that points are always
and inevitably defined in terms of lines is debunked.
JB> Keep trying. Find me _one_ noncircular definition of "point,"
See above.
Do try to *think* before responding to this. John, will you?
JB> You -are- the first I've seen (besides me) even _claiming_ it
JB> can be done, and the first anywhere claiming such has _already_
JB> been done.
"Anywhere?"
ROFL! Your omniscience is growing by leaps and bounds!
Did you miss the post over in PHYSICS directed to your attention
by Peter which defined "point" for you?
Maybe if you ask him _very_ nicely...
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:09
EID:ce3b 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277e
TID: GE/2 1.2
CH> There is no "smallest distance" in continuous mathematics.
RC> Zero. :-)
JB> Wrong.
Then what is the distance between point A and itself? Zero.
If you have a different number as the answer, John, let's see it.
CH> Since the points to which you're referring must exist within
CH> a given n-space
RC> Better not to assume such things, since there are other
RC> possibilities.
JB> ...Which I'd like to hear about....
Are you SURE you'd like to hear about spaces that are not n-spaces?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:50:10
EID:bb26 2262ae40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 409b277f
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> It's already been demonstrated that a high school dropout's
RC> ability and willingness to THINK on this matter supercedes yours.
JB> Interesting, but false, observation. You have too great a
JB> tendency to indulge in overgeneralization,
As I was referring to Marilyn Burge, it's no generalization, and it
happens to be the truth. I'll trust any day in her ability to out-think
you in math (and myself in other areas).
RC>> You may consider yourself dismissed.
JB>> Thank you.
RC> "Thank you, Mr. Curry, SIR." :-)
JB> Fat chance....
No, no. Those little statues of Buddha are fat; chance is fickle.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 01 Mar 97 06:12:00
EID:cd05 22613180
Curtis and Don were killing time yakking about Al Debunks Applesauc:
DM> Curtis Johnson said "Al Debunks Applesauc" to Don Martin,
DM> adding:
CJ> Yes, I've been able to read HS but my replies haven't been
CJ> able to make it out--just as was exactly the situation with
CJ> R-RELIGION as I'd told Ken Wiens.
DM> A bunch of my stuff appears to be sitting on Steve
DM> Rose's board, where I was picking up packets when nothing
DM> seemed to be making it to Baltimore. Mail was coming in
DM> there, but not, apparently, leaving. I have not seen any of
DM> mine posted there on this board yet.
Nor have I - that's been going on now for at LEAST two months from Steve's
bbs.
CJ> Rod Smith has replaced Al in the volume, though. And
CJ> Rod--at least Al addressed a variety of topics.
DM> Around fundies, a homosexual probably finds his topics
DM> pretty limited from the get-go.
I'm sure that's just a coincidence...
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
... "And I have never been known to indulge in wordplay." Don Martin
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Alternative of Straw.
|Date: 01 Mar 97 06:16:00
EID:b027 22613200
Martin and Laurie were killing time yakking about Alternative of Straw.:
MG> Save this horseshit for someone that believes it,
MG> I don't talk to morons.
LA> I have pleasure in returning an earlier message of yours.
LA> ============================== =====================
LA> You are a lying son of a bitch.
Laurie's right you know...you DO talk to morons....posting to him is
evidence of that! ;)
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ "Hey, look, they're steamcleaning the horses!" -- Gypsy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ALL
|Sub: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 01 Mar 97 06:31:00
EID:07da 226133e0
John and Laurie were killing time yakking about Out of your own mouth.:
JB> May God forgive you and protect you from the wrath He
JB> vents on all liars, because you, at least, "lie for the
JB> Lord of Hosts" rather than for the Lord of the Flies.
LA> Are you talking about the God of the Christian Bible or
LA> about the god of your QUANTUM delusions? What "wrath" does
LA> your 'phantom god' meter out John? In what revelation does his
LA> words occur? Perhaps you have pronounced your own judgement
LA> which you so richly deserve, with your own mouth!
I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
... You say you want a revelation -- we all want to end the world . . .
---
* TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:04:00
EID:8999 22629080
Marilyn and Jim were killing time yakking about Cheese Whiz:
JS> Hmmm...and yet the head _had_ to go through the birth canal to kill
JS> it. What was gained?
MB> Not so. the cervix is dilated, a sharp instrument is inserted in
MB> the brain stem, and suction occurs while the head is still in the
MB> womb.
JS> No, only the head remains still in the vagina when the baby is
JS> brutally murdered.
You have received my documented post explaining that you are incorrect
and Marilyn is exactly right by now, i trust.
Jim...do you understand what the cervix IS?
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Medical definition: Dilate. To live too long
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:13:00
EID:cd05 226291a0
Curtis and Don were killing time yakking about Al Debunks Applesauc:
DM> One might try saying something nice about Al and
DM> checking the Internet to see whether it comes up on his home
DM> page.
CJ> "Al, we miss you. Few as your posts were, they showed that
CJ> you chose quality over quantity. You never made assumptions about
CJ> anyone. You never started a personal argument, and always quickly
CJ> moved to end one when it started. You never collected injustices,
CJ> real or imaginary, and certainly never argued about them for
CJ> months on end. You never felt compelled to have an opinion on
CJ> anything. You always immediately saw the implications of a
CJ> position you took. You never condescended to anyone, but in your
CJ> humility always supplied 100% accurate information while putting
CJ> as little a spin on things as possible."
DM> Not even Al is capable of believing _this_ rhapsody. You write
DM> PR for a tobacco company in a former life?
He may not BELIEVE it, but (like the tobacco companies) I'll be waiting
to
see it show up in his journal as an endorsement!
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ I like quality, not quantity.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/1111 12 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Bones for Hector Plasmic - Part One
|Date: 02 Mar 97 23:39:02
EID:eafa 2262bce0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 763f0060
MSGID: 1:229/622 331a0f97
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
JH> Some time ago, I mentioned a claim that the bones of Saint Peter had
JH> been located under the Vatican. Hector wanted source material and I
JH> am just now getting around to looking it up.
JH> = = =
JH> CLASSICS IRELAND
[...]
You mean the piece of the crypt slab my father in law chipped
off for himself might have been not REAL??? Sure wish I'd had
the chance to show this to the ignorant son of a bitch before
he died.
I always wondered if, in the unlikely chance he'd got to meet
St. Peter, he'd have been asked to give the chunk back.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brain Sucking
|Date: 02 Mar 97 23:15:48
EID:1fad 2262b9e0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33183ec8
MSGID: 1:229/622 331a0a6d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> Wow, you're catching on. Exactly. Did you miss church on Sunday?
KY>> Yes, in fact...
DC> There it is! Positive evidence that going to church does
DC> indeed suck intelligence out of the church-goers' brains.
DC> BTW, great flyby, Dave. Mach 2, wasn't it?
Naw, the top speed of Captain Winkie, my wheelchair, is only
10 kph. But it was fast enough for Mr. Lube.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 02 Mar 97 23:22:34
EID:fa91 2262bac0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3318c248
MSGID: 1:229/622 331a0bdf
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RC>> Zero. :-)
DC> It's simply amazing how often that non-existant number seems
DC> to always crop up, isn't it?
Wasn't he a Mexican cowboy with a fencing foil?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Re: complaints
|Date: 03 Mar 97 15:36:16
EID:c774 22637c80
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
JB>> See if you can define either one without reference to the
JB>> other.
CH>> You can't.
> Yet you just DID (define "point" without any reference to "line").
> It is inevitable given any space with a dimension less than one.
> Odds are that our resident quantum religious nutball won't notice.
He means that you can't define them wholly independent of each other.
At least one of the three requires the one of the other two in its
definition. You can define each of them independent of each other, but
to do so you have to define "space." Points, lines, and planes are then
0, 1, and 2-dimensional spaces, respectively.
CH>> The definitions of "Point", "Line", and "Plane" (some would
CH>> include "Space") fall into the set of base axioms for
CH>> geometry. That is, you _can't_ define them non-circularly.
> In the context of three dimensional euclidean geometry that is
> true enough. However, and this is the part that John refuses
> to learn about (and which you overlooked yourself), the terms
> are also used in more general mathematical contexts, where such
> independent definitions are not only possible, but sometimes
> even *necessary*.
But in those contexts, I'd be willing to bet that there's no formal
definition of them at all.
> Most generally, a "point" can be defined as an element of any set.
Correct. A line, then, is the set of all points following the following
pattern: {(a[1], a[2],..., a[n]): sigma(i=1 to n) of a[i] = k}
K can be anything you want it to be, but ultimately, a line is still
defined in terms of points. You can also use distance notation, but
you still have a collection of points that you're talking about.
Now, quick trivia question for those mathematically inclined: Is that
set of points which makes up a line countably or uncountably infinite,
and please explain why. (The reason I ask is that for Brawley's theory
to work, it must be countably infinite and it isn't).
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Re: infinitesimals
|Date: 03 Mar 97 15:42:54
EID:aeea 22637d40
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
CH>> There is no "smallest distance" in continuous mathematics.
> Zero. :-)
Ok, smartass.. there is no "smallest non-zero distance" in continuous
mathematics. :)
CH>> Now, if you want to take your argument to discrete maths,
CH>> then the smallest distance between two points is whatever
CH>> scale you care to define it.
> He really does appear to be groping for a discrete metric, which
> (wait 'till you hear this) he believes can be arrived at simply
> by using _infinitesimals_ as if they were somehow magically discrete!
*baffle* Let me get this straight (or as straight as anything ever
gets around me).. he's trying to map a continuous coordinate system
onto a discrete system, and NOT lose something in the conversion?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> Why, he even claimed that Leibniz intuitively used infinitesimals
> as discrete, rather than continuous or variable entities; and he
> blames his nonsense on David Berlinski's "A Tour of the Calculus."
Leibniz used infinitesimals as a method to calculate the limit of a
continuous entity.
CH>> Since the points to which you're referring must exist within
CH>> a given n-space
> Better not to assume such things, since there are other possibilities.
Oh? Here I'd be genuinely interested in what you're talking about. Unless
you mean something akin to fractal geometry.
> That would be the l2 ("little L two") metric over n-space. The subject
> of changing metrics has been broached here before, in the context
of
> square circles. While this has nothing to do with John's many problems,
> I thought you just might like to know.
Well, you've just passed my knowledge of theoretical mathematics, so while
I'm interested for pure knowledge's sake, I don't know as it will further
the debate any.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Re: complaints
|Date: 03 Mar 97 15:56:52
EID:6f15 22637f00
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
CH>> The definitions of "Point", "Line", and "Plane" (some would include
CH>> "Space") fall into the set of base axioms for geometry. That is, you
CH>> _can't_ define them non-circularly. In fact, you can't really "define"
CH>> them at all. You can give examples of them, and to some degree you
can
CH>> talk about them, but you can't define them independently of each
CH>> other.
> That is my 'point.' Thanks. There are several in here who think otherwise,
> simply because it's _me_ claiming what you here lay out for us.
This having been said, your statement below is still faulty. Explanation
follows.
> My "hypothesis," and the 'topological' mental playtoy I've been messing
> with for several years, requires beginning with a "point" --or something
> with no practical difference from one--
Now here I have to ask, what do you mean, something with no practical
difference to one? If you're attempting to equivocate between a true
point, which has zero dimension, and a quasi-point, which has an
infinitesimal dimension in at least one direction, you're sadly mistaken.
You're making the same physics error that theoriticians like to gloss
over when they say "for all practical purposes, a sheet of paper has only
two dimensions" and then promptly get proven wrong when a stack of term
papers gets dropped on their desk, forming a visible three-dimensional
stack.
> and exploring what happens if the point is both infinite points and one
> point at the same time (it is closely related to 'the problem of the
> thirteen spheres').
If it's a true point, then it's still just one point. An infinite sum of
zeroes is still zero. If it isn't a true point, then you have something.
An infinite sum of infinitesimals adds to some finite value. The infinite
sum of negative powers of two from 0 to infinity still adds to 2.
Here's where you make your mistake. You're attempting to say that you are
using an infinite number of points. Points have no dimension. Even if I
can't define a line except in terms of points, I can still define a point
independent of anything else. If you wish to define a point as having a
size, even an infinitesimal one, then you are no longer dealing with a
continuous mathematical system, but a discrete one.
> For that, I have to start with JUST the point --no line, no plane, no
> metric, and no background space.
Then you're referring to a zero-dimensional object without a reference
space.
> ..._my_ counterclaim is that 'standard math' does not _possess_ the
> concepts necessary to it;
It does; it's called discrete mathematics. I've had three semesters of it
now for my Computer Science degree.
> I found as you write, that 'standard math' does NOT allow me to start
> with nothing but a point.
Where did I say this? I said that you can't define point, line, and plane
non-circularly inside of the field of normal mathematics. You can indeed
have "just a point without a reference space in which to put it" because
the n in n-space can be any non-negative integer (actually, it can be any
non-negative real, but I don't feel like arguing fractal geometry until
we
have the basics worked out). That means you can have n=0, in which case
all
you do have is a point, without anything else. And you can do nothing with
it. An infinite number of points in 0-space is still a point.
> I can understand math's _axiomatic_origins_ (near your phrase: the set
of
> base axioms for geometry) well enough to be able to _tell_ that they cannot
> serve my need.
Well, they do, but they don't help you any. See above.
> It's nice to see at least ONE person in here agree with me.... (*grin*)
But I don't agree with you. I'm just saying that the deconstruction of your
argument lies not in any mathematical proof, but in your equivocation over
the definition of a point. You are free, of course, to claim that points
have
size, or not. But they can not do both at once. If they have size, then
you
have a discrete system. If they do not, then you have a continuous system.
But you can not say that the two are interchangeable.
> Have a NICE day!
No, damnit! I've had 63 nice days in a row! I'm entitled to a shitty day!
(And with my snotrot, I'm having one.)
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Growing Christanic fascism
|Date: 03 Mar 97 15:57:40
EID:7ab2 22637f20
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> In fact about 60 miles from me there is a Fred store -- they sell
> everything for Freds. My mother mailed me a catalog and it's got
> T-shirts, bumper stickers, book covers, pens, wall paper... thousands
> of stuff with Fred logos and imbicillic Fred sayings on it. Kind
of
> like an Irish store, in fact, with only the word "Irish" exchanged
for
> "Fred."
> But we deserve such special treatment. }:-}
I'm sure you do. Did all the Freds in your high school get to ride the
little bus to school, too? :)
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Fundies
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:00:00
EID:d8cd 22638000
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
ch>> No, that would be Objectivism. *grin* (Or, to quote my fiance,
ch>> "Randroidism".) And before anyone jumps up and down at me, I've
ch>> read Atlas Shrugged many times, and I still reread it about once
ch>> a year. It's excellent fiction. Rand just makes the mistake of
ch>> saying "I've worked out this great system of ethics based on logic
ch>> and reason. So everyone shut up and do it my way!"
> Rand created quite a cult which continues today -- and it's utter lunacy.
Unfortunately, it's still a damn good set of ideals for which to strive,
even if the species as a whole is incapable of living up to them.
> Humans simply aren't a reasonable species so appeals to reason
> are ultimately destined to fail. Only as humanity evolves will
> Objectivism have a chance.
Well, we keep fighting, but I feel like i'm doing the glacier dance (one
step forward, two steps back).
--
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: Educational Experience
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:14:40
EID:16eb 226381c0
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> The inspiration of Jesus is one whereby you believe, or burn.
RS>> Most would call it blackmail. Deluded people call it "salvation".
> A good alegory would be to throw a lifepreserver to a drowning person
> and that person refuses to avail himself of it and drowns. No blackmail
> there.
Indeed it is, Jimmy. The average Christian wouldn't throw a livepreserver
to a drowning person until such time as that person promised over his soul
to God. You have get saved to get into Heaven, remember. Me, I'll throw
one to them without asking their religion first.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:16:18
EID:8b91 22638200
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> It also states that each year, it has a $112,000,000 budget.
RS>> In fact, they want $3mil profit out of this conference (and
RS>> that's before merchandising) from ticket sales of $3.1 million.
RS>> That's about 96% of earnings being profit.
> What do you define as 'profit'?
Money that is earned above and beyond operating expenses. What do you
think profit is, Jimmy?
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:24:14
EID:000f 22638300
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
RS>> [...then Jim failed to give a real reason, only quoted silly bible
RS>> passages, yet again proving that for every bible passage, there
> typical of you to flee from the sword of the scripture, Rod...
Jim, you obviously have a screw loose somewhere. I should think it's
pretty clear to you by now that my husband is an atheist. As such, anything
that the Bible does or doesn't have to say on any given subject isn't going
to mean anything to him (or to me, or to any of the other non-Christians
around this echo) because we doubt the authority of said text. If all you
give us when we ask you questions is scripture, why are you suprised when
we say you haven't a brain in your head?
For cat's sake, Jim, at least ONE time please try to THINK and give us an
OBJECTIVE answer that has nothing to do with the Bible when we ask you a
question. Otherwise you're going to just get the same stuff over and over
again.
RS>> My attitude towards scripture is that it is irrelevant. It also
RS>> makes the user of such an irrelevant text also irrelevant and a
RS>> laughing stock. :)
> Again, typical response from one afraid of God and His Word.
Afraid? Afraid's a mighty big word, Jim. It's hard to fear something that
one doesn't think exists. I'll admit I fear the average Christian's
capacity for violence, hatred, intolerance and arrogance, but I don't
fear God or the Bible, because I don't think they have any validity in
my life. *shrug*
RS>> I pity you, Jim, because you could not provide an answer to the
RS>> question -- your bible did. Don't you think for yourself?
> I find all my answers in the Bible.
I think that this is a "no." Jim, what's the point of coming here, then?
If all you have to say comes from the Bible, I could read the Bible and
get more out of it. In fact, I've _read_ the Bible, twice, cover to cover.
I was frankly underwhelmed.
RS>> Have you lost all capability to? Is this what Christian
RS>> "Free-will"(tm) is?
> Where have I _ever_ indicated I believe in 'free will'. I have posted
> many messages in support of just the opposite position.
I'm not suprised at this, really. If we have no free will, then are those
who wind up in hell destined to be so? If so, then GOD CONDEMNED THEM TO
HELL IN THE FIRST PLACE.
RS>> The freedom to choose to stop thinking, and
RS>> start bleating like a moronic sheep following a flock of deluded
RS>> souls on the live-sheep-export truck of existence?
> I know nothing of whatyou are talking about...
You could truthfully make this statement about a vast number of things,
I
think.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Re: infinitesimals
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:36:34
EID:b274 22638480
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> 1) One such point is by definition dimensionless, has no 'size.'
> 2) Two such pionts, coalesced or superimposed (congruent), could
> have no 'size' either.
> 3) Two such points, _forbidden_ coalescence, must cause 'size'
> in some way, even if that size is ambiguous and nonquantifiable
> in terms of existing measurement systems.
> What, pray tell, is wrong with this fundamentally important (to the
> toplogical network I work with) conclusion?
Absolutely nothing. What is problematic is where you go with that conclusion.
You are assuming that there is some minimum non-zero distance beyond which
you can no longer bring them together without causing overlap. Consider
a
fractal (I know, I said I didn't want to get into fractals elsewhere, but
I'm going to have to here). If you zoom in on a fractal at a small enough
scale, it repeats itself. Quite simply put, you can rescale your measuring
stick an infinite number of times.
Take, for instance, two transcendental numbers that are identical in the
first n positions, and differ from there. The distance between the two
is going to be 10^(1-n) times the difference between the two numbers.
Since they're transcendental, they can have an infinite number of decimal
positions, and never repeat. But that number n can increase without bound.
That is, there is no smallest division past which those numbers can not
differ. I can always stick a point between any two points on the number
line, simply by tacking another digit onto the end of it. Ultimately, you
are saying there is a limit to the number of places that can follow a
decimal point, and the number pi by itself is a debunk of that.
> assuming I'm too stupid to be making any sense is not going to help.
I'm not assuming you're too stupid to make sense. I think you're trying
to prove a paradox.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Re: John-boy's last chance. [1]
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:40:56
EID:bd06 22638500
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> From that, we suggest the concept of closeness. If we are not allowed
> to _coalesce_ them, but are allowed to move them around, then the idea
> of a minimum closeness before coalescence is trivially obvious.
No it isn't. Given a continuous numbering system, there is no distance so
small between any two points that I can not insert a third independent
point that is non-identical with either of the other two. Or, if I can't
add a point, then I can position a third point there. Unless you're only
granting two points, in which case your question is still trivial because
there is no distance such that I can not move them even closer without
touching. Consider a microscope capable of infinite magnification. On
whatever scale you claim is "the smallest," I can readjust the microscope
to show you that there is still distance between them.
In short, your closeness problem is nonexistent in a continuous mathematical
model.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Christopher Hughes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Re: John-boy's last chance. [1]
|Date: 03 Mar 97 16:44:50
EID:bd06 22638580
PID: SX 4.3 UNREG 10
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
> I understand _your_ position; do you understand _mine_?
Yes. You're trying to map a discrete model onto a continuous system
without losing information. You can't do it. Period out.
> a) the question is meaningless,
> b) the question is answerless (the language does not exist
> in which to formulate the answer),
> c) you are an idiot (John doesn't understand his own concept),
> d) I am an idiot (Mark doesn't understand John's concept).
> I chose (b) as what you seem to be saying underneath all these other
> conversational irrelevancies. Eh?
No, the correct answer is (a). In a continuous mathematical system, no
answer exists for that question. It isn't a fault of the language, it's
a fault of the question. You're asking a useless and meaningless question.
> It was not. You translated a topological thing into a mathematical
> one. The concepts are close, perhaps even equivalent, but they are
not
> the same.
*baffle* FAQ this one, people. "The concepts are... perhaps even equivalent,
but they are not the same." If the two are equivalent, then answering one
will answer the other.
--
In the name of the best within us,
Christopher Hughes
bear@atheist.com
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 10
--- via Silver Xpress V4.3 [NR]
* Origin: "She blinded me with science!" (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:00:14
EID:8441 22636800
MSGID: 1:229/622 331acb5f
REPLY: 1:229/622 331990cb
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Dave Hamilton said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> His statement was very cold...'we needed a body count'
DH> Yes, I heard that. Who was "we" ?
I don't know. I don't think anybody else is really sure either. The
people interviewed about it for CNN seemed to think he was talking about
the militia group he belongs to.
... Fetus - a character on 'Gunsmoke'.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:23:40
EID:f0b6 22628ae0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331aa8e7
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3316d0c2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Richard Smith said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
RS> Methinks he doth protest too much. You hit a corn, you
RS> nasty Harpy you. Do you stencil another fundy on the side
RS> of your monitor now?
No more room on the monitor. I've started on the wall. (Will need to
add on to the house soon.)
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: New Moderator?
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:26:52
EID:15b9 22628b40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331aa8e8
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 33173dcc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Richard Smith said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Styx Allum <=-
RS> is he just a deputy?
Oh shit! It isn't Captain Fuck at all...it's Psycho Ward.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Bones and Dupes for Hector Plasmic
|Date: 03 Mar 97 05:56:26
EID:a0d1 22632f00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331ab8eb
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 7644e755
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> J.J. Hitt said, in a huffy tone of voice, to All <=-
JH> I didn't give a damn if no one ever read it, I was damned well
I read it...got to [continues...], hit enter; fascinated to get the
rest of the story.
Instead, this message was what lay on the other side.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:00:44
EID:0c7e 22636800
REPLY: 1:229/622 331acb5f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
MSGID: 1:229/622 331acc46
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
JB> -=> Dave Hamilton said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma
I did not! It was a *nice* tone of voice.
JB>> His statement was very cold...'we needed a body count'
DH>> Yes, I heard that. Who was "we" ?
JB> I don't know. I don't think anybody else is really sure either. The
JB> people interviewed about it for CNN seemed to think he was talking
JB> about the militia group he belongs to.
I suppose it's only a matter of degree. If it were the entire
militia it may be 100 or so that will be denounced as False
Christian Scum.
If it were only him and his accomplice, they will be denounced
as False Christian Militia Scum.
Crackpots appear to collect in varying sizes of community.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:34:12
EID:4d6c 22636c40
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 76445c73
MSGID: 1:229/622 331ad383
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
MG> I don't think he smokes it. I think this guy is getting it off of the
MG> backs of postage stamps.
Is that the Newt stamp that they discontinued because people
were spitting at the wrong side?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Damned fundies don't know their own theology
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:37:36
EID:6a91 22636ca0
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 99ef29c9
MSGID: 1:229/622 331ad438
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
MB> God without Man
MB> is still God
MB> Man without God
MB> is Nothing!
MB> According to their own theology, that's a lie; if we are
MB> "nothing," why did their gawd love us so much he allowed
MB> his son to be sacrificed for our sakes?
He's codependent?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:39:38
EID:0428 22636ce0
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 faa45a81
MSGID: 1:229/622 331ad50d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
EM> I hope you got at least a little consolation from the knowledge that,
EM> however severe your central nervous system disorder is, it doesn't
EM> hold a candle to your neighbor's affliction: walking anencephaly.
I've since had the pleasure of watching the little cult break
apart and disband.
EM> Does the asshole have an e-mail address? :)
Contrary to common sense, the fundies we get here are NOT the
dumbest ones in existence. These folks don't have access to
any networks at all yet. Pornography and all that, y'know.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Fetal Ralph
|Date: 03 Mar 97 13:45:20
EID:91d8 22636da0
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33199271
MSGID: 1:229/622 331ad663
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> Oh, that's ok. No one wants to take away his right to have his
DH>> kidneys clawed out through his nostrils.
DM> It really _smarts_ when that happens. Chacun a son gout,
DM> however. (The second sentence is in honor of the pet Quebecois you
DM> keep in the cage . . . )
Only a matter of time now. I'm dying to see the
ammendments they'll propose for NAFTA.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: The end of the world is nigh!
|Date: 03 Mar 97 14:26:24
EID:e8a6 22637340
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3319feda
MSGID: 1:229/622 331adfcc
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SA> I got a job! A real job! One in an actual factory! (Fitting, no?)
Congratulations! Hope you meet some coworkers that make it
a tolerable place to work.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 03 Mar 97 19:28:36
EID:b080 22639b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331b2706
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312f788
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Rod!
Martis dies February 25 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad Steve Quarrella:
RS> Well, you know the way I get rid of them, you can adopt the same
RS> measures to suit your needs ;) :)
Silly man, I can't "choose to be gay." I'm beyond
the point of trying to be cute with them. These are dangerous people who
don't understand the meaning of the word "No," and I'm at the point where
I'm annoyed at having to play games with them.
Spent some time in a lawyer's office today discussing this very situation,
in fact. :)
RS> I've always thought it was fun to ask the Mormons about their
RS> holy underwear of protection....
D'you believe in Jesus?
Why...yes, I do.
Well, you're gonna meet 'im.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Fane
|To: All
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycott
|Date: 03 Mar 97 15:35:51
EID:6b2d 22637c60
MSGID: 1:170/853 331af021
Um, what was the original message about a Cracker Barrel Boycott? I missed
it and am interested in if this is for real or just another enigmatic subject
line. :) Thanks.
--- {Mnemonic Oubliette} ---
* Origin: +1 918 455 5806 BBS/FAX, 64000bps, Broken Arrow, OK, 0 (1:170/853)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 170/853 800 400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Goofiness.
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:59:00
EID:108e 22628f60
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 331b4ad2
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Joe Seatter cast Goofiness. at Sue Armstrong ..
and all hell broke loose.
SA> Just saw on the AANews mailing list where some Republican yahoo
SA> (Thomas Colson R-Oklahoma) admonished NBC for showing, unedited,
SA> "Schindler's List". Got his panties all in a knot over
SA> "full-frontal nudity, violence, and profanity".
JS> he got the prince:get over yourself award on politically incorrect the
JS> other day... they spent about half the show calling the guy a moron...
Heh. Sorry I missed that one ...
SA> Full-frontal nudity? Yeah, there's some, but it ain't like it's
SA> portrayed as a gratuitous sex-romp. Far from it. Violence? What
JS>
JS> maybe he thought the shower scene was a lesbian orgy... but, it's
JS> obvious to anyone with an IQ above 2 that the movie wasn't filmed as
a
JS> porno... there's what, 3 minutes of footage that isn't entirely B&W?
If that, especially if you exclude the end of the film which shows
the real survivors laying rocks on Schindler's grave.
SA> does one _expect_ in a film about the Holocaust? Besides, violent
SA> movies are on every _night_! Does he also get upset over Rambo and
SA> Schwartzenegger flicks? If not, I'd like to know why he gets upset
SA> over the portrayal of violence in Schindler's List. (And this movie
SA> has a lot less gore than most movies; the B&W film style probably
SA> helps with that, while still maintaining the actual horror of the
JS>
JS> i dunno... i think the movie was pretty graphic... not bad, it wasn't
JS> promoting violence or anything, just graphic, shocking... so was the
JS> war though, and the movie didn't show gratuitous violence, like it
JS> could have... this wasn't his real problem with the movie though...
JS> otherwise the guy would be ranting about the violence in childrens
JS> programming...
For me, it wasn't the violence itself that was shocking - it was the
context. I've sat through some really bloody John Woo/Hong Kong
films, and was only queased a bit by the gore itself .. but watching
Schindler's List, my constant thought was "this really happened",
which is itself the most shocking thing of all.
SA> situation.) Profanity? I don't notice swearing all that much .. but
SA> I don't remember much of it in List (and I missed the broadcast.)
SA> Does anyone have any idea what he might be blathering about?
SA> I disagree with the analysis given in the newsletter; I don't think
SA> it was really the nudity that got him .. he's probably rather
SA> anti-Semetic, or some sort of Holocaust denier (but too cowardly to
SA> come out and say so.) I really can't see anyone, even the most
JS>
JS> i think that's the same impression 99.9% of people got of the idiot...
JS> why do i have a feeling he'll get re-elected in 2 years anyway,
JS> though? i'm not trying to badmouth oklahoma, but people have poor
JS> memories for this sort of thing...
No argument there.
SA> Talk about beanheads. Sheesh. The movie may have left out quite a
SA> bit (I read the book on which the movie is based after I saw it) but
SA> it's still a damn fine, and important, work that kids SHOULD see, if
SA> only to teach them how depraved people can be, and what the sowing
SA> of irrational hatred can reap. But then, said representative
SA> belongs to some sort of Christian "pro-family" group, so he probably
SA> doesn't like to admit what hatred can do.
JS> how much better is the book, anyway?
It details some events that were left out of the movie - for
instance, he was actually arrested three times (he was in jail when
"his Jews" were taken to Auschwitz), the fact that there was a
second raid on the Tyrol factory (the men were taken that time, as
he was coming back with the women. He wasn't able to get them back,
but most of them survived, in large part thanks to the fact that he
did treat and feed his prisoners as well as possible); and an
incident near the end of the war involving a trainload of prisoners
that couldn't find anywhere else to drop its cargo. It also looks
at beleaguered Mrs Schindler more closely, and shows her to have
been quite a woman, too (despite all the shit she had to put up
with, she didn't leave him until after the war.)
There's some other details in there as well, so it's well worth
reading.
--Wolfie
"I howled with the wolf shades and laughed with men,
And insight into all hearts began.
The noble wolf I saw driven forth
Before the hunters to the north.
Adam's children improves his tools and weaves
Cities of wonder while the Garou grieves.
The open spaces conquered, the death of herds,
The truths then the philosopher's game of words.
The arcane secrets were hidden, and the spells
Become passwords for mages in secret guilds.
The Faerie Folk retreat to their dreaming home.
In man's city, the vampire laughs alone."
-"Klaital's Journey"
_Who's Who Among Werewolves: Garou Saga_
... This is a load of tripe, you know that. -Brain
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 12/12 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:05:01
EID:9729 226290a0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 331b4ad3
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Ken Young cast Cracker Barrel boycott at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Oh, lovely. So just by being homosexual, a person is condemned to
SA> hell? What a nice theology you have there, matey. You just stated
SA> that it's impossible for a homosexual ever to avoid going to hell.
KY> Homosexuality goes too much against the scriptures, so it would not
be
KY> possible for them to get saved and remain gay. Gay people do have
a
KY> chance. But that chance is by getting saved, and once saved, they
KY> will no longer be gay.
That's as absurd as saying that "falling from grace" will
automagically change one's orientation.
SA> But your god obviously _is_. Meanwhile, your god was supposed to
SA> have created _everything_, and that includes homosexuals - and
SA> homosexuality. "Everything" means just that - everything.
KY> God created everything good, at least according to the Bible.
KY> And He created everything originally. There are unnatural things He
KY> didn't create.
Oh? Like what? Did he create cockroaches? Mosquitoes? What
didn't he create, then? And if your god-thing didn't create them,
where did they come from?
--Wolfie
"I howled with the wolf shades and laughed with men,
And insight into all hearts began.
The noble wolf I saw driven forth
Before the hunters to the north.
Adam's children improves his tools and weaves
Cities of wonder while the Garou grieves.
The open spaces conquered, the death of herds,
The truths then the philosopher's game of words.
The arcane secrets were hidden, and the spells
Become passwords for mages in secret guilds.
The Faerie Folk retreat to their dreaming home.
In man's city, the vampire laughs alone."
-"Klaital's Journey"
_Who's Who Among Werewolves: Garou Saga_
... Klingon Katerers: No cooking means no waiting! Call 1-800-YUK-QAGH!
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 12/12 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:07:02
EID:41f7 226290e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 331b4ad4
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Ken Young cast Driving Mr. Daisy at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Ah, at the time, the entire Christian Church WAS for it; it was that
SA> which called for the witch-hunts in the first place.
KY> Nope.. The church was pretty much split on it.
Actually, no, it wasn't. Go read up on your medieval history.
KY> Unfortunately, many people likely were afraid to speak up. And also,
Like the good little Christian sheep they were.
KY> there is a scripture that some will twist and use, trying to make it
KY> look like witch killing would be scriptural.
"Suffer not a witch to live" is pretty clear.
SA> not being in schools". The problems include 1) dumbing down of the
SA> cirriculum; 2) watering down of science and other courses to placate
SA> loud and ignorant creationists who think that actually presenting
SA> _science_ in a science class is offensive; 3) fast-tracking of kids
SA> through the grades; 4) several other factors including changes in
SA> teaching methods, the inability of some systems to expel disruptive
SA> students, catering to the lowest common denominator, removal of
SA> certain materials from courses so as, again, not to offend
SA> fundamentalists, emphasis on "feeling good" about yourself even if
SA> you're failing all your courses, etc.
KY> Much of that I will agree with, but they have not been watering down
KY> science fiction because creationists have protested. Rather, it is
No, they've been watering down science classes because creationists
have been whining .. not science fiction. Last I heard, writers of
science fiction still write whatever they damn well please.
KY> the other way around, even though this so called science has to do
KY> with theory, and not fact.
Define. What "so-called science"? Define "theory" as it is used in
science.
KY> Yes, the dumbing down of the American education system has been going
KY> on for a real long time, but it doesn't have to do with religion.
No, but bringing it back into schools would only make it much, much
worse.
--Wolfie
"I howled with the wolf shades and laughed with men,
And insight into all hearts began.
The noble wolf I saw driven forth
Before the hunters to the north.
Adam's children improves his tools and weaves
Cities of wonder while the Garou grieves.
The open spaces conquered, the death of herds,
The truths then the philosopher's game of words.
The arcane secrets were hidden, and the spells
Become passwords for mages in secret guilds.
The Faerie Folk retreat to their dreaming home.
In man's city, the vampire laughs alone."
-"Klaital's Journey"
_Who's Who Among Werewolves: Garou Saga_
... "Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the Force are they." Yoda
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 12/12 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Alternative A
|Date: 03 Mar 97 05:39:03
EID:1382 22632ce0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 331b4ad5
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, David Ragland cast Alternative A at Richard Smith
.. and all hell broke loose.
RS> Oh, and by the way, WATCH YOUR FUCKING MOUTH! There are
RS> ladies present.
DR> With the exception of Laurie, who are you referring to?
Laurie Appleton is male.
In some countries, Laurie is a legitimate name for men (just as
Beverly is.)
--Wolfie
"I howled with the wolf shades and laughed with men,
And insight into all hearts began.
The noble wolf I saw driven forth
Before the hunters to the north.
Adam's children improves his tools and weaves
Cities of wonder while the Garou grieves.
The open spaces conquered, the death of herds,
The truths then the philosopher's game of words.
The arcane secrets were hidden, and the spells
Become passwords for mages in secret guilds.
The Faerie Folk retreat to their dreaming home.
In man's city, the vampire laughs alone."
-"Klaital's Journey"
_Who's Who Among Werewolves: Garou Saga_
... Survival tip: Never MOON a werewolf.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 12/12 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: Jason Harmon (1:3652/1)
|Sub: HELLO
|Date: 26 Feb 97 14:57:00
EID:7f22 225a7720
PID: RA 2.5
MSGID: 1:225/360 58b2ece6
NOTE: IceEdit 1.40 [Eval]
PRAISE GOD !
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in His should not not perish but have everlasting life."
TELLING TO THE GENEREATION TO COME THE PRAISES OF THE LORD.
Jesus Saves
--- FMail/386 1.20
* Origin: BEEB's PRISON:Corbeil,Ont.,Can. (705)752-4207 (1:225/360)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 225/360 99 12/12 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 03 Mar 97 21:31:26
EID:0b1a 2263abe0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331b4352
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e83e
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Rod!
Mercurii dies February 26 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Heard about the "Army of God" taking responsibility for the
SQ>> bombing of an abortion clinic and a gay bar.
Why, oh, why can't a tornado hit these fucks in their trailers?
RS> The worst thing is that they leave a second bomb around to get
RS> the emergency workers. That is really sick.
RS> That's *domestic terrorism*.
The same people probably watch the 6 o'clock news and shake their heads
at the crazies in the Middle East.
RS> I hope they get to fry in the electric chair.
I'd rather they get it in a drive-by shooting. That way, I don't have to
pay tax dollars to have them on death row for years. In any event, they
won't get the death penalty: The First Amendment is misused to give THEM
the "special rights." If you do something "in the name of God," you get
off easier. :-/
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: More Christian nuts
|Date: 03 Mar 97 21:33:58
EID:b0c8 2263ac20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331b4485
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3318f82e
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Rod!
Dies solis March 02 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad All:
RS> Rep. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma was quoted in a release put
out
RS> by his Oklahoma office as saying the airing of the highly
RS> acclaimed film took network television ``to an all-time low,
RS> with full frontal nudity, violence and profanity being shown in
RS> our homes.''
I wonder if Coburn speaks for himself, or for his constituents.
RS> His criticism brought a response from Sen Alfonse
RS> D'Aamto, a New York Republican, who told the Senate Coburn's
RS> statement was ``shocking.''
RS> ``To equate the nudity of the Holocaust victims in the
RS> concentration camp with any sexual connotations is outrageous
RS> and offensive,'' D'Amato said.
Good for him. Someone with half a brain.
[Coburn]
RS> He added: ``I cringe when I realize that there were
RS> children all across this nation watching this program. They were
RS> exposed to the violence of multiple gunshot head wounds, vile
RS> language, full frontal nudity and irresponsible sexual activity.
RS> ``It simply should not have been allowed on public
RS> television.''
RS> Coburn said the airing of the movie demonstrated that the
RS> new TV rating system ``only encourages more sex and violence.''
Does anybody have a FAX for this ass? I'm typing one up now to FOX -- I've
about had it with the entertainment industry spending money on Pauly Shore!
-- and might as well ask this guy if he'll be whining the next time we're
subjected to "The Ten Commandments," "Ben Hur," or "The Greatest Story Ever
Told."
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: A quote for you
|Date: 03 Mar 97 21:37:16
EID:1629 2263aca0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331b469f
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3318f95c
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Rod!
Dies solis March 02 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad Fredric Rice:
RS> You know how I have this theory about needing a "good enemy" so that
RS> one may raise a good army of "onward Christian soldiers", and that
There's a good book about this theory, Rod. It's called "Mein Kampf," written
by a little German corporal named "Hitler." Guess that this Hitler found
a scapegoat for his country's woes, and used that scapegoat as an excuse
for the atrocities that he committed. Gays, atheists and "non-believers,"
and other non-Fundamentalist Christians are that 'good enemy
RS> the enemy changes from minority to minority while propaganda about
RS> a minority's threat to the majority can be spread? Well, here's an
RS> interesting quote for you :) :)
RS> "For centuries, dominant groups in society have used the 'they're
RS> after your kids' myth to marginalize subdominant groups. The
This is popularly called "The Big Lie." The more that the liars repeat
it, the more people believe it.
We used to have some asshole by the name of Joe Savelli in here, claiming
that gays were banging on the doors of his churches (quite literally), hollering
"We want your children!" When someone posted an article about televangelist
Robert Schueler and his desire to indoctrinate children early, Savelli ran
back into his rabbit hole.
There's a dangerous woman in the White House, far more dangerous that Hillary
Clinton. This one's named "Tipper Gore," and she has in the past been a
major proponent of the idea that "They're after your children," demanding
that the entertainment industry kiss the backsides of a group of irresponsible
"Me generation" parents. Check out Tipper's book, "Raising PG Kids in an
X-Rated Society" for a good idea as to how far out of touch this woman is
with reality.
This woman couldn't even keep her own daughter from drinking in public.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: clones
|Date: 03 Mar 97 21:47:36
EID:ffc7 2263ade0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331b4706
REPLY: 1:358/1 bd3259b4
PID: GED3 3.0.a1221 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Quentin!
Saturni dies March 01 1997, Dixit Quentin Fai ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> "Robertson Cloned from Dandruff, News at 11!"
QF> But a man made from dandruff? He'd disintegrate if he used medicated
QF> shampoo.
Very good!
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha2+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Circularity in the form of synchronicity
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:26:46
EID:2ec3 22628340
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 76465b81
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 2d41cb1a
MB> Martin, what did this clown say?
MB> All I saw was "god is there and I know it, and if you can't
MB> see it, it's because god doesn't want you to know it."
MB> Or, am I missing something.
This guy has had too much acid.
When I first read the post, I found myself nearly falling asleep from the
length. Then, it occured to me that this guy was a "messianic jew" and
that the post was rambling all over the place as if he were some megalomaniac
in search of an audience. I answered short and sweet, without addressing
much of wht he said as I found it not worth reading or replying to.
So, no, I don't think that you missed anything. I think the guy is bonkers.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:48:01
EID:03ba 22628600
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 764688f8
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3317d250
KY> Affection I can see, but it is another thing entirely, going
KY> around promoting your lifestyle.
Are you truly stupid enough to believe that gay marches promote "gay lifestyle"?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:03:11
EID:e111 22628860
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7646ac5c
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33189900
KY> ANd no, homosexuality does not occur in animals. That would be
KY> saying that homosexuality is the act of sex and not any sexual
KY> preference. And how do you know what an animal prefers?
KY> Did you ask one?
Wrong again, Jelly. REad a biology text. Homosexuality has been observed
in many species of animal.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Re: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:13:25
EID:2bc5 226289a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7646c440
REPLY: 1:383/6293 330D1886
DG> My God can do and has done something about evil: He sent His Son,
DG> Jesus Christ, to defeat Satan, by dying on the cross at
What has Jess done about Childhood Leukemias?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Abram Garcia
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Re: [2/3] True Christianity
|Date: 03 Mar 97 00:54:02
EID:867b 226306c0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 331a7597
PID: CNet PRO 4.26 (beta)
On Fri 28-Feb-1997 12:19p, Lynda Bustilloz@1:109/1111.0 said to Joe Shedlock:
LB> >>> Part 2 of 3...
LB> 3 Q. Who is a true Christian?
LB> A. A true Christian is he who is baptised, who believes and professes
the
LB> Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.
hello Lynda
couid you please explain this Q and A a bit more to me please?
(go into detail about each of these above process that makes a true christian)
cya
.Abram.
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/375 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oh no . . .
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:30:00
EID:d61f 226153c0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33169320
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33184b78
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Oh no . . .:
ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?"
ROD> Swift :)
tl> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
RS> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks
RS> like. Damn.
ky> I should say so, because while I am not a registered
ky> Libertarian, I lean that way, myself..
So, do I need to get the lobotomy to be a libertarian like
yourself, or can I just act stupid and overly-testosteroned?
... Bubba's Gun Shop. Discounts to Postal Workers.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: You forgot to answer thi
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:34:02
EID:2c17 22615440
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33184c6a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about You forgot to answer thi:
MB> get laughed clear outta here.
ky> If what I have seen so far is any example, you guys do not
ky> have the best success in laughing the Christians out of
ky> here..
RS> And that's a pretty good thing, considering that it is not
RS> our goal. If all the Xtians left, who would we have fun
RS> with? We WANT you Xtians to stay so that we can taunt you
RS> continually. We're having fun . . .
ky> Glad you find superior intellect so amusing.
I've always had fun with my superior intellect. Sorry that
you can't say the same, aspicced one.
ky> Well, if my brilliance
LOL . . . your WHAT?
ky> can't help you learn more, I guess it's good if it can
ky> at least bring you some laughter..
Oh, you HAVE been a source of amusement as WELL as a
learning experience, aspicced one.
ky> My evidence is merely the fact that we did not just
ky> appear out of nothing. Logic says that something
ky> must have created us.
RS> What created your Deity? Logic, again, says that something
RS> must have created it, to follow YOUR reasoning [sic].
ky> Nope..
Ah, what a liar you are! You set up a condition, and then
refuse to follow that condition! Another Liar for the Lord.
ky> The difference is we are mortals, while God
Which God? And, it should be noted, that you still haven't
shown that that entity exists. Until then, it's still just
imaginary on your part.
ky> is of the supernatural.
Evidence for this?
... you understand the swiss cheese theory of the universe?K.Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:44:04
EID:a479 22615580
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33184ec4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Richard Smith about Exemplifying examples:
ky> was naturally intended.
DW> Then why must we eat?
ky> Come on, a little intelligence would be nice.
RS> He can have yours. You're not using it.
ky> Sure
That's awfully nice of you. Thanx.
RS> What kind of a father starves his children, even until they
RS> die, just because of a difference of agreement? You still
RS> haven't answered me on why your Deity allows its children to
RS> starve.
RS> Face it . . . IF it exists, it's NOT a good father.
ky> He does not make anyone starve.
Did I say it made anyone starve? Why doesn't it provide
food for all its children?
ky> Blame people for that..
So people are more powerful than your Deity?
ky> But He won't force feed anyone either..
And I didn't say that either, did I? Why doesn't this
`father' provide food for its children to eat?
Can't answer this without showing what a shit your Deity is,
can you? Your Deity allows children to starve to death, and
you kiss it's ass. Just a metaphysical bottom-feeder,
aren't you?
ky> Because we have made it clear we want to do things our way
ky> and not His, so He is giving us the chance to prove how
ky> well we can run the world without Him.
RS> ... According to Ken Young, Genesis encourages drug
RS> use if they're natural
ky> Hmm.. I didn't even see any replies to that one.. Well,
ky> that is just where I lean towards, on that particular issue..
I suppose that you got no replies to that for two reasons.
Firstly, it is pretty self-explanatory concerning your
character. And secondly, folks were probably too busy
laughing at you.
... According to Ken Young, Xtians who bugger small boys are still Xtians.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Libertarians
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:45:06
EID:3fd3 226155a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33184f02
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Fredric Rice said to Richard Smith about Libertarians:
ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?" Swift :)
tl> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
rs> I'm going to have to change political parties, it looks like.
rs> Damn.
FR> If you're looking for something a little more to the left
FR> of Terry, why not consider joining the Republican party?
Maybe I'll start my own party . . .
... A republican is a sinner mentioned in the Bible. -- Richard Lederer
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:50:08
EID:5727 22615640
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185030
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Hypocritical people:
ky> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
RS> Well, that's not something I exactly relish . . .
DC> That' salsa can say about it? Do try to ketchup!
RS> What'sa matter, don't think I can pass mustard? I am NOT
RS> margarine-al at all . . .
DC> That was butter. I may even condiment you on your response.
RS> Oh, what a bunch of horseradish! You're just in a jam and
RS> want to preserves your reputation.
DC> Spread-ing it rather thin, aren't you? I'marmalade that and
DC> won't let it go easily.
Why don't you think about it a bit and let it jelly? Were
you expecting me to cower from some Miracle Whip?
... might as well kill all Christians, as they will go to Heaven.Ken Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:52:10
EID:8519 22615680
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331789b8
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331850aa
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Cracker Barrel boycott:
RS> `Father Sebastion, will you kindly shuck me an altar boy?'
DC> "Brother Bahtazar, go roll your own!"
RS> "Okay, who has the Sacred Holy Lube?"
DC> "Friar Tuck has it. He's putting the other to bed."
You can always tell which of the altar boys have been abused
all night by those that have ecumenical movements the next
day.
RS> ... According to Ken Young, Xtians who sodomize children are
DC> Getting into the tagline business, I see!
RS> Well, I see that business is booming for others, and
RS> competition, being healthy . . .
DC> That is true. I'll have to discount the cost of stealing on
DC> of mine by 5%
Were those virgin, or previously-stolen, taglines?
... Bagginses keep stealing our taglines, my preciouss
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:54:12
EID:daf4 226156c0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33178b68
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185124
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Damned Shoes:
RS> that seduced women in their sleep, a succubus (succubare: to
RS> lie beneith) was the female equivalent.
RS> I wonder what else you can do with those shoes? Maybe they
RS> vibrate or something . . .
DC> Or perhaps even more!
One hopes that it's a tight fit . . .
RS> through head . . . >
DC> Old sick joke follows:
[sick joke deleted, not because of space or disapproval, but
just to annoy others who wish they'd been reading along all
along . . .]
That was wonderful. Wish I had one to share in return . . .
... Ken Young believes that man invented diseases.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Rosemary's Baby
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:56:14
EID:8799 22615700
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3318519e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Richard Smith about Rosemary's Baby:
JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
JD> performed an exorcism on a two year old. Apparently it
JD> worked, although the restraints caused the wicked child
JD> to die of asphyxiation in the process.
RS> I'm trying to keep a file of such things. Is there any
RS> way you could send me more information?
JD> I skimmed through my collection of clippings, but didn't
JD> find one on that incident, sorry. It was well covered by
JD> local media.
Darn. Okay, I'll have to look for it . . . thanx!
... If you don't pay your exorcist, do you get repossessed? -- T. DelCano
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Educational Experien
|Date: 01 Mar 97 10:58:16
EID:accf 22615740
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185218
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Roger Hunter said to Richard Smith about EDUCATIONAL EXPERIEN:
CH> It'll be hyphenated. Christopher and Rod Hughes-Swift.
RH> While I understand your reasoning,
MY reasoning? You're responding to the wrong person, Roger.
RH> it gets complicated
RH> real quick if it continues for awhile. Then we have Bill
RH> Smith-Jones and George Williams-Anderson, resulting in
RH> Bill and George Smith-Jones-Williams-Anderson and if
RH> they adopt kids, pretty soon we have Tom
RH> Smith-Jones-Williams-Anderson-Carson-Andrews-Thompson-Carr.
Considering that it's a very popular custom, how do you plan
on stopping it?
... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Kids asked for it -god?-
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:19:18
EID:343c 22615a60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185706
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Richard Smith about Kids asked for it -god?-:
JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
JD> performed an exorcism on a two year old. Apparently it
JD> worked, although the restraints caused the wicked child
JD> to die of asphyxiation in the process.
RS> I'm trying to keep a file of such things. Is there any way
RS> you could send me more information?
RV> I think Jan is thinking about the [ 2 ] adults who drown
RV> a kid up in the Kitchner area, all done of course. To
RV> save the kid from the demons that were { so called }
RV> within the child. Thats the one where they took a few
RV> hours to finally kill the kid.
Grrrr . . .
RV> The adults [ to my mind ] got off with a slap to the
RV> hand. Only got a few years, not life.
RV> They took lessons from the old book, forceing water down
RV> the person, till the person , either drowns or the gut
RV> burst.
RV> Good reglious folks, a few flashs in the paper, then
RV> soon as the reglious aspects of it can out, the article
RV> died off.
Amazing, isn't it? Damn fundy shitheads anyway . . .
RV> While they were killing off the older kid, the younger
RV> got to see all the action and screams. Pity that kid,
RV> likely when the mother gets out of jail, she will get
RV> her hands on that one also. They we're Christians,
RV> persay, some weird offbeat of the same god belief
RV> system, though.
Poor little one.
RV> The Kitchner/Waterloo newspaper, back last year when the
RV> verdict can down and a year back or so, when it happen.
RV> Maybe two years back, when it happen. I forget now.
Some names would help me with the index . . .
JD> Last year, near Hamilton, Ont. a mother and grandmother
RV> That one down the Hamilton way, just last year. It
RV> , was abuse and stealing from an old age/pension
RV> place. Run by some off-shoot of the old RC church. It
RV> was the nuns, that were doing the abuseing. From
RV> stealing $$, to starvation, to beatings of the older /
RV> cripple / helpless partons.
I've never kicked the shit out of a nun before, but if one
of them had done that to my father or mother, they'd BETTER
have the love of Christ on their side . . .
Got any names for this case?
RV> I posted another from a local small town, Paris,
RV> christian care taker, fucking the little ones. Useing
RV> the basement of the church. I think that post, never got
RV> pass my hub.
Apparently, so much hasn't. Sorry if this aggrivates your
hub. Do you have Email capabilities or an InterNet account
yet?
RV> Then just after that one, can out. We had a local
RV> goverment work being charge with under age male sex
RV> partners. Willing teens /15/16 years, but since he was
RV> in 50's or so. It was classed as rape/abuse interference
RV> of young males.
Pilloried for Christ, eh?
RV> No reglion there, it got major play. Big time. Weird or
RV> what? The same player also got nail for the [?tea
RV> trade?] or whatever the fuck, it's called, up in
RV> Kitchner, never did hear what happen with that charge.
RV> The age 15 , to my mind, is a little young but as a
RV> willing live in person ??? what can i say.
I would consider it a little young as well.
RV> If it's reglious in nature, it has small play. If it's
RV> non_reglious, it's a B I G P L A Y . On radio,papers,
RV> you name it.
Because, rather than admitting the truth and trying to
eliminate the problem, they'd rather lie or cover-up.
RV> Now Toronto has a story on kids getting/haveing sex with
RV> older male, and it's playing big time. Talk show after
RV> talk show.
RV> It's hockey as a game, a form of Canadian Reglion. But
RV> no gods persay other then of the human nature.
Ah . . . high sticking . . .
RV> Reglion has power in this local, No one can convince me
RV> otherwise.
I believe you, Ron. I have AMPLE cause to believe you.
RV> ==========
RV> [ Toronto Story ]
RV> Another point that is also getting played on big time,
RV> is the kids ask for it. In other works, it's the VICTIM
RV> FAULT. That label is also getting a lot of air play.
Ah, the Ken Wiens Defense . . .
RV> It's gay's who are doing it.... BIG PLAY It's the victum
RV> or willing for pay ... BIG TIME The [ GAY ] male is
RV> really getting painted black, with this one.
The Ken Young Defense?
RV> Check any of the Toronto papers.
RV> The Toronto Sun ...... web..
RV> http://www.canoe.ca
RV> via this the paper says, read the online version of the
RV> Toronto Sun on the internet. Don't know about the back
RV> issues/storys. I would assume,if you wish, you would be
RV> able to get them. [ Gordon Allen Stuckless ] is the
RV> abuser, being charged. Aonther is John Paul Roby......
I'll keep a file and when I get net access, will check it
out. Thanx.
RV> The story is getting bigger all the time. Many kids,
RV> possible.
RV> ====RFV====
RV> It will be interesting to see if this post gets out.
RV> ====RFV====
Watch yourself, and don't let them know where you live, Ron.
Thanx, and take care.
... Sex ed classes in our public schools are promoting incest.-J. Swaggart
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Heat [1/2] A
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:26:20
EID:5f94 22615b40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331858ac
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about Heat [1/2] A:
am> I have been posting on this board for over a year and
am> have on several occasions provided a summary as well as
am> evidentiary points. However I would be happy to
am> reiterate if, in rebuttal, you would be willing to
am> summarize and provide evidentiary points for your
am> conclusion that mechanistic forces alone can account for
am> the appearence of the universe and the arrival of man..
RichS> You are aware that the two are not necessarily
RichS> synonymous, aren't you? What about what else he asked
RichS> for: evidence, AND a summary of the theory behind it?
RodS> Yes, of course, he tried to detract from the point...
Rich> It's a sad thing that he didn't have or put more artfullness
Rich> into the attempt. It was too blatant.
RodS> Too blatant indeed!
am> 2. There are at least 25 known constants in the universe
am> necessary for life as we know it
RichS> There's the operative wording: AS WE KNOW IT. BTW,
RichS> where did you originally get this list . . . I'd like
RichS> to go and do some supplimental reading by the author
RichS> of it.
RodS> As with all creationist claptrap, it's probably
RodS> unsourced, or misleading :)
Rich> And, oddly enough, delightful Andrew is no longer
Rich> responding to me. I wonder why . . .
RodS> Oh, is it because we destroyed his pathetic little belief
RodS> system? Another fundie bit the dust!
I guess I get to stencil another fundy on the side of my
monitor . . . }:)
... "I'm not a chowderhead! I'm MISTER Chowderhead!!": Andrew Masten
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Holy terrorism in the ne
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:34:22
EID:10b4 22615c40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185a8e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Fredric Rice said to All about Holy terrorism in the new:
FR> It also seems as though the Christian terrorist individual or
FR> organization responsible for the bombings of abortion clinics last
FR> month are also being tied with the terrorist bombing of the
FR> Olympics last year. It seems that the materials and design
FR> used were identicle.
What a lovely bunch of fundy barbarians. That's TRUE XTIAN
LOVE at it's best!
FR> To all theists: They're yours. Why don't you clean up
FR> your own shit for once?
They're too busy saying that it's not shit.
... There're more words in the Bible for killing than for love.-Don Morgan
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 01 Mar 97 11:56:24
EID:309d 22615f00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33185fb8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Bryson Hughes said to All about prophets:
[Mostly zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz stuff deleted.]
BH> Shalom Aleichem..
CH> And Shalom to you, my brother! BTW, you stumped this
BH>^^^^^^^^^^^^^
CH> old man with Aleichem, couldn't find it! :(
BH> It means "Peace to you". You even translated above.
The whole phrase, Shalom aleichem, capitalized just like
that, means `Peach be unto you.' However, Shalom Aleichem,
chapitalized just like that, is a proper name. Or, more
precisely, is the pseudonym of Sholom Rabinovitch, born in
1859 in the small Ukrainian town of Pereyeslav. He was the
author of many fine short stories, some of which were the
inspiration for Fiddler On The Roof, and you are (at BEST) a
very pale shade of that shadow. One would expect that, as
an alleged profit, err, prophet, you would know that.
Does your baloney have no end?
... FALSE PROPHET BRYSON and The FRAUDS -***- WORLD * TOUR -***- 1997
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Here, they're yours!
|Date: 01 Mar 97 12:00:26
EID:f3ff 22616000
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331860aa
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to All about Atlanta Bombings:
From Reuters News Wire....
"Army of God" threatens``total war'' against the federal
government and promises further attacks on homosexuals,
their organizations and supporters
By David Morgan
ATLANTA (Reuter) - An anonymous letter purported to be from
a militant Christian group called the Army of God claimed
responsibility on Monday for the recent bombings of an
abortion clinic and a gay and lesbian nightclub in Atlanta.
The FBI could not say immediately whether the letter,
posted to an international news agency within hours of last
Friday night's explosion at a lesbian bar, was a genuine
claim of responsibility or sent by a crank. But
investigators said they were aware of a shadowy radical
group called the Army of God, which had been known to
circulate bomb-making manuals as a means of advocating
violence against abortion clinics. The letter purported to
contain details about the makeup of bombs used in both
attacks and sought to set up a system by which claims of
responsibility could be confirmed after future bombings. The
letter also threatened ``total war'' against the federal
government and promised further attacks on homosexuals,
their organizations and supporters.
In a reference to abortion, it lashed out at what it
called the annual ``murder'' of 3.5 million children, saying
the practice would not be tolerated.
The letter, postmarked Saturday from an Atlanta branch
post office, ended with a promise of death to the ``new
world order''. In the latest bombing, an explosive device
packed with nails went off Friday in the rear patio section
of the Otherside Lounge in northeast Atlanta shortly before
10 p.m. EST, injuring five people and sending a young woman
to the hospital with a nail in her arm. In mid-January, a
bomb described by FBI agents as being of similar makeup
shattered the offices of the Atlanta Family Planning
Services center in the suburb of Sandy Springs.
A second explosive device was left in an outside parking
lot in both attacks, as if intended for law enforcement
officers and rescue workers responding to the initial
emergency call. At least half a dozen people were injured
outside the Sandy Springs abortion clinic when the second
bomb went off. Federal officials, who say the bombings and
the deadly Centennial Olympic Park bombings bear
similarities, have speculated that a serial bomber may be at
large in Atlanta.
All three bombings remain unsolved.
ECHO MAGAZINE (g/l/b/t of Phoenix)
Atlanta Bombing Investigative Lead
by Jeff Ofstedahl for Echo Magazine
(Jeff4echo@aol.com)
Phoenix, AZ-An investigative lead to the Feb. 22 bombing of
The Other Side lesbian bar in Atlanta developed in Phoenix,
Feb. 24. When the business manager for the Gay Community
Yellow Pages (GCYP) opened the office Monday morning, he
found a caller left a message claiming responsibility for
the bomb attack.
"The Sons of Confederate Klan, a new neo-Nazi , KKK
organization from Los Angeles, California, take
responsibility for the bombing." The caller sounded like a
woman's voice, although it could have been a man trying to
disguise himself. There was a distinct southern accent.
"I don't know why they would call us," GCYP owner Marci
Alt said. As soon as she found the message, she said she
called the Phoenix Police Department. "They didn't know what
to do," she reported. She then contacted the Atlanta Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the agency handling
the bombing investigation. The ATF sent three Phoenix-based
agents to interview Alt and her staff. They left with a
recording of the message. "We're definitely treating this as
a serious investigative lead," ATF Supervisory Special Agent
Steve Ott told Echo Magazine. Ott said he forwarded the
information and the tape from Phoenix to Atlanta. Echo
Magazine later learned that an identical message was left
Sunday morning on the message machine at the Washington,
DC-based National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.
The Phoenix message baffled investigators until they
learned that GCYP used to be based in Atlanta. The company
still has an inactive office there, with a phone which
automatically directs calls to its Phoenix office. Tawanda
Shaw of Klan Watch, a group associated with the Southern
Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Alabama, said her group
has no previous record of any organization calling itself
the "Sons of Confederate Klan." She said she was starting a
new file based on that name and the attack on the woman's
bar.
... Just because gays will go to Hell, does not mean they aren't loved.-KY
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: application
|Date: 01 Mar 97 12:14:28
EID:0815 226161c0
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f47847eb
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331863f4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Katherine Wintersnight said to Oologah@worldnet.att.net about application:
KW> @MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f47847eb
KW> To: oologah@worldnet.att.net
KW> Subject: application
KW> I would like to apply for membership in the Sisterhood.
KW> Mu URL is http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/
KW> My home address is Katherine Wintersnight
............................................................
............................................................
KW> I was born May 13, 1958, my permanent e-mail is
KW> katherine.wintersnight@cantina.com
KW> and you may list me as Katherine Wintersnight
KW> Please don't attachments the logo--my mail server at
KW> this address dies when presented with an attachment.
KW> My page is pagan/wiccan in nature--concentrating on the
KW> common sense questions that many of the available source
KW> materials overlook.
KW> Thank you for considering me.
KW> Katherine
Something nasty is happening with your mail, dear. I bet
you never intended this to get to Holysmoke . . .
Bear needs to restock the ammo before you have every fundy
idjit in Texas on your doorstep. Be careful, okay?
... 93:9620/400 richard.smith@9046.gigo.com 1:203/9046
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 02 Mar 97 11:44:30
EID:e9f4 22625d80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319ae6e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Marilyn Burge about Cheese Whiz:
MB> I saw a guest editorial written by a woman that had one of
MB> these abortions, and she said that her fetus was aborted just
MB> as Staal describes. The reason was that the fetus had a VERY
MB> large head as a result of some kind of birth defect, and
MB> bringing it through the birth canal prior to greatly reducing
MB> its head would have killed her.
js> Hmmm...and yet the head _had_ to go through the birth canal
js> to kill it. What was gained?
MB> After it had been GREATLY reduced in size, Jim. That's what
MB> sucking out the contents of something pliable does -- reduce
MB> its size.
js> OK. But the head is destroyed _after_ it has gone through
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
js> the birth canal in these procedures. That last 3 inches
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
js> before reaching air is beyond the birth canal.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is Jimson serious here? Can he actually believe in some
sort of non-local part of the birth canal? LOL!
MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
js> Nope.
MB> Gimme numbers.
js> I have asked for those from proponents of the procedure
js> myself.
Meaning, obviously, that he's been spouting off _without_
having facts at his disposal. Typical.
MB> I want REAL numbers from the Department of Health,
MB> not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
js> One thing for sure, woman who gave testimony on this
js> was not an hysterical fundy.
LOL . . . the English error aside, how does this follow?
You're more patient with Jimson than I am, Marilyn.
... A dorky dick-head with ears in white jeans----outstanding ears -- JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Mar 97 12:11:32
EID:76e5 22626160
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319b4c4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Dan Ceppa about OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN:
ky> CHristians believe in a god. This clearly is
ky> saying that anyone that believes in a god is a
ky> dogmatic moron.
RH> Sounds reasonable to me. What's the problem??
ky> The problem is it is quite arrogant to assume that
ky> we are the most superior beings out there.
DC> Of course it's arrogant. But, that's just another
DC> trait of being an xian.
ky> Wait.. You just admitted that it is arrogant to believe
ky> that we are the most superior beings out there. But
ky> Christians don't believe that, atheists do.
For two reasons, this lie of yours won't fly.
Firstly, can you name THREE admitted AND known atheists that
claimed that humans were the most superior beings? (Here,
I'll save you some work: you can't. No known and admitted
atheist has EVER said that here in this forum, or possibly
even the world.)
Secondly, do you deny that your Deity (uh, what _was_ its
name again?) in your Bible gave dominion over all animals
and plants to mankind? What does THAT suggest to you?
Addendum: do you admit that you, as a human, are just an
animal like any other animal? If so, you may be able to
redeem your lie here. Let us know, okay Jelly?
ky> Christians believe there are many beings far more
ky> superior than them.. They are spiritual beings.
This has to be a lie as well. If for no other reason than
we can establish that people, as well as other animals, and
even plant, life forms exist, but no one can prove that
these spiritual beings exist.
YOU claim there is only one Deity, right? Yet that Deity
hasn't been proven to exist yet; you yourself admitted in
another post that you can't produce physical evidence for
its existence. And you claim that that ONE Deity is
superior. So, so far, that's ONE allegedly superior but
admittedly unproven being that is supposdely superior to
mankind. What others were you thinking of?
Other Deities? You don't admit to those. And even if you
did, they still would be only conceptions until proven to
exist.
Angels? Yet YOUR Bible clearly indicates that they are
inferior to mankind. And, until there is evidence for their
creator (your alleged Deity), they can't be established to
exist either.
Demons? Yet they are just fallen angels.
The Father? We go back to your one Deity.
The Son? We go back to your one Deity.
The Holy Spook? We go back to your one Deity.
Souls? But then, we're back to us, aren't we?
Even someone as bright as you should be able to see that ONE
allegedly superior but unproven being can HARDLY be
considered to be factually many. That is, unless you've
failed basic math. Have you been taking lessons from
Brawly?
... According to Ken Young, dildoes don't exist.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 02 Mar 97 12:15:34
EID:ad92 226261e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319b5b6
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to David Rice about Murderous Christians:
ky> And with Waco, unless you think the government is
ky> solely made up of Christians, that is far from an
ky> example of violence in the name of God[sic].
DR> Since the Branch Davidians and Janet Reno were and
DR> are Christians, your special pleading is specious.
ky> Interesting statement, considering the fact that Janet
ky> Reno has said that Christianity is a cult.
Source for this claim is . . . ?
DR> I can produce, at a moments notice, several documented
DR> cases of Christians who have reciently rape, murdered,
DR> and tortured people. Hell, I've already done so and sent
DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
DR> accept the Truth.
ky> I have never denied that some that CLAIM to be Christian,
ky> have committed violent acts, but those acts would go so
ky> much against Christian beliefs that they could not be
ky> Christians.
Yet you yourself have admitted that once a person is a
Xtian, they are a Xtian for life. You refute yourself,
Jelly.
... According to Ken Young, Xtians who sodomize children are still Xtians.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 02 Mar 97 12:23:36
EID:d5b4 226262e0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33166eba
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319b798
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to David Worrell about A toast to dracula:
ky> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
DW> Really? Feel like going a couple of rounds with Evander
DW> Hollyfield? We'll even let you bring your pet God in
DW> the ring to help you out.
ky> Maybe that's where his strength comes from.. He's
ky> supposed to be a Christian too.
So I take it you DON'T want to go three rounds with him, eh?
ky> You're sinless?
DW> Yep. Sin is a transgression against God. Those that
DW> don't believe in God cannot sin.
ky> Sin is not necessarily just for a religion. It can
ky> simply be anything one does that is wrong.
And your _non_religious source for this claim is . . . ?
... No scientific fact disagrees with me at all. -- Ken Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: ...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 12:31:38
EID:c6bd 226263e0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331673f2
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319b97a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Quentin Fai about Re: ...:
ky> Part of it, I believe, was that Christ was willing to
ky> pay such a high price for our chance at salavation. And
ky> since being crucified as he was, was much more of a
ky> sacrifice, I would say, yes, it needed to be that way.
QF> It wasn't *that* much of a sacrifice. He's still alive,
QF> after all.
ky> Uh, you try being crucified in that way, and see if you
ky> like it very much.
Why shouldn't it like it? According to your mythos, IT
wanted it to happen, IT planned on it happening, and IT
purposely caused it to happen. Why should it be pissed? IT
could have stopped it from happening at any time, being
allegedly all-powerful. Ergo, IT wanted it to happen. IT
should be very happy with itself by now. IT got exactly
what it wanted. And yet, IT reversed what happened
immediately afterward . . . by allegedly becoming alive
again.
And this all makes sense to you? According to you and your
mythos, Pilate, Herod, and Judas are all heroes. Hell,
Judas was even guaranteed a place in Heaven, by It, even
though It knew that Judas would perform his role in the
whole drama.
... Are you sure its me that's ignorant? I'm a hisotry of buff of sorts-KY
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ken Young's hatred
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:49:40
EID:da24 22626e20
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3317683e
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319cbc4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Fredric Rice about Ken Young's hatred:
FR> Want to bet that Ken's also a Promise Keeper?
ky> Yeah, right.. About as much chance of that happening, as
ky> you joining a militia!
ky> WHile there are well meaning people in there, the
ky> leadership is for ecumenicalism and thinks peace is the
ky> answer to everything, and that we need to be tolerant of
ky> other beliefs, to the extreme..
So, what you have against the PKs is that they're for peace
and tolerance and you're not?
You just refuted yourself. Congratulations.
... According to Ken Young, militias never engage in violence.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: David Ragland's demonic
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:54:42
EID:b88a 22626ec0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3317696e
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319ccf2
* Carbons Sent to: Fredric Rice
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Fredric Rice about David Ragland's demonic o:
DR> These are debates. Much like the courtroom scenario.
DR> The Judge is
RodS> So why do creationists keep consistently losing in court?
FR> It's a conspiracy, I tell 'ya! A Communist plot!
ky> Very good! You are finally learning! :)
The elevator doesn't go to the top floor in your house.
... Ken Young's against the Promise Keepers as they want peace & tolerance
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: David Ragland's demonic
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:54:44
EID:441f 22626ec0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319ccf4
* Original msg to: Ken Young
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Fredric Rice about David Ragland's demonic o:
DR> These are debates. Much like the courtroom scenario.
DR> The Judge is
RodS> So why do creationists keep consistently losing in court?
FR> It's a conspiracy, I tell 'ya! A Communist plot!
ky> Very good! You are finally learning! :)
The elevator doesn't go to the top floor in your house.
... Ken Young's against the Promise Keepers as they want peace & tolerance
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:56:46
EID:d13f 22626f00
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3317b2ee
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319cd6e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to David Worrell about bozos, bozos everywhere:
ky> Besides many of their products making me break out, they have also
ky> been involved in other things I am strongly against, such as
ky> NutraSweet, and genetically altered foods.
DW> I wonder if this clown has ever seen a "wild" tomato
DW> plant before. Or any "wild" vegetable, for that matter.
ky> Fine, I'll rephrase it.. "Genetically ENGINEERED foods."
Then you don't eat pickles or cukes in any form? You avoid
the question, Jelly.
... Ken Young's against the Promise Keepers as they want peace & tolerance
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Quote Changes
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:01:48
EID:8f21 22627020
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319ce9c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to David Ragland about Fundies:
@MSGID: 1:105/302.666 4ed51dda
@REPLY: 1:3800/49 000a7527
On (19 Feb 97) David Ragland babbled to Marilyn Burge...
DR> MB>Regard us as people, then you can do the penguins first.
DR> Yes Ma'am.
MB> Changing people's words in this forum is a big, bad no-no.
MB> I know that I never said anything to you about penguins.
MB> Change one more quote of mine, and the message, along with
MB> the original, will be sent to the moderator. And, you can
MB> trust me on this one: he doesn't suffer quote-changes
MB> gladly.
MB> Your days are numbered, if you don't knock it off NOW!
MB> ... Stupidometer: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (98)
MB> -!- PPoint 2.00
MB> ! Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Just FYI . . .
... Constant change is here to stay.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Fundies
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:07:50
EID:bb9c 226270e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319d006
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to David Ragland about Fundies:
MB> On (19 Feb 97) David Ragland babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> Regard us as people, then you can do the penguins first.
dr> Yes Ma'am.
MB> Changing people's words in this forum is a big, bad no-no.
MB> I know that I never said anything to you about penguins.
MB> Change one more quote of mine, and the message, along with
MB> the original, will be sent to the moderator. And, you can
MB> trust me on this one: he doesn't suffer quote-changes
MB> gladly.
MB> Your days are numbered, if you don't knock it off NOW!
He's given some indications that he's done it with my posts
as well. We'll see if he'll stop or not. He doesn't, as
you've probably already noted, play well with others.
... *Barney*Fife*Alert* David Ragland's on the loose! *Barney*Fife*Alert*
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: It was Ragland who said
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:12:52
EID:f921 22627180
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3319d134
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Dan Ceppa about It was Ragland who said w:
dg> OK. I'll try to humor you. Any student of philosophy
dg> knows of the works of Socrates, right? He and many
dg> other classical philosophers realized and believed that
dg> a God exists. These are the same philosophers whom most
dg> atheists will herald and praise as great men of
dg> understanding. (Granted, Socrates did not know of the
dg> God of Israel.) Let's hear YOUR evidence that God does
dg> not exist.
So, Socrate's Deity truly exists because he believed in It?
That would tend to refute your assertion that only your
Deity exists. You refute yourself, Darryl, and we're all
finding you pretty amusing.
... Darryl Gonzalez says his God exists because Socrates believed in it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 03 Mar 97 14:34:20
EID:4ef4 22637440
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2263744a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB>> Leibnitz looks closely at his own well-made hand, the left one
JB>> resting on the desk's edge, a manly network of veins running
JB>> from the top of his wrist forward to his fingers.
RC> ROFL! Oh, you picked a real good math book, John.
Oy, vey. Learned his math skills from the Totally Irrelevant School of
Harlequin Romances, from the sound of it.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
* Origin: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965 (1:102/735)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 102/735 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 03 Mar 97 14:34:24
EID:a929 22637440
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2263744c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
KY>> And no, currently I am church hunting..
MG> What's the legal limit?
Seems we've just solved the "mystery" of all those church fires, eh? Has
anyone
notified Kenny's family, or the FBI?
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
* Origin: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965 (1:102/735)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 102/735 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 03 Mar 97 14:34:28
EID:263a 22637440
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2263744e
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB> |[-3]|[-2]|[-1]|[+1]|[+2]|[+3]|
JB> | | | | | | |
JB> -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3
You're an idiot. Allow me to demonstrate:
-3 |-2 |-1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3
---+---+---+---+---+---+---
| | | | | | o
| | | | | o | o
| | | | o | o | o
---+---+---+---+---+---+---
o | o | o | | | |
o | o | | | | |
o | | | | | |
Or, if you prefer:
| / 3, 3
| / 2, 2
|/ 1, 1
----+---- 0, 0
/| -1,-1
/ | -2,-2
/ | -3,-3
Now, stop trying to pretend you didn't make the mistake and aren't acting
the
fool, and get on with whatever it is you call a life, okay?
Disclaimer: I am not a mathematician. I just know how to count. Which
seems
to put me at least one up on you.
Your old pal,
Hec
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
* Origin: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965 (1:102/735)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 102/735 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Evidences for God
|Date: 02 Mar 97 21:59:57
EID:d61f 2262af60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 3319f8ca
REPLY: 1:383/6293 330D1691
PID: GED3 2.5
27 Feb 97 03:29, Darryl Gonzalez wrote to David Ragland:
DG> http://members.tripod.com/~DJGONZA/djgworld.html
Are those your fiance's real teeth?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 03 Mar 97 07:17:19
EID:d226 22633a20
MSGID: 1:123/67 331a7d29
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 d4e759dd
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
01 Mar 97 11:16, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
SS> SS>>> Ever heard of an instantaneous rate of change?
JB> Oxymoron. No change can occur in an "instant" unless the "instant"
JB> has temporal width. Usually "instant" is not thought of as having
JB> duration. See Zeno. (Not Zero.) (*grin*)
A Nobel Prize awaits you for redefining calculus, Bait Son.
From: Leithold, Lewis, (1968) _The Calculus_, New York, Harper &
Row Publishers, p.144.
6.4.1 Definition. If y = f (x), the instantaneous rate of change of y
with respect to x at x(1) is the derivative of y with respect to x at
x(1) if it exists there.
JB>> Functions and limits?
SS>> No, an instataneous rate of change, just like I asked. This is
SS>> commonly known as the derivative of a function, not limits or a
SS>> function. You do
SS>> know what a function is, don't you? Repeat after me...for every
SS>> value of x there can be one and only value for y.
JB> Yeah, I'm struggling through a primer....
I've noticed. Do I need to fire up the fondue again?
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait & Calculus Shop (1:123/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 03 Mar 97 07:38:41
EID:56b9 22633cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331a8153
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 859a3464
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
01 Mar 97 10:15, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
SS>> That's right, John. It has a MATHEMATICAL limit of infinity.
JB> I'm right, but I'm debunked? How utterly logical of you....
Read the entire message, Bait Boy. I know that you made straight
A's in High Screw Geometry, but bear with me.
JB>> which is infinitely large, boundless,
JB>> "open"). But the "lowest" possible (infinitesimally small) DOES
JB>> have a bound, a 'limit,' and is "closed" ("zero").
SS>> lim x ===> infinity is no less efficient in coming close to
SS>> infinity
SS>> than
SS>> lim x ===> 0 is to coming close to 0
Did you understand this, or did the volley sail clear?
SS>> This is mathematics, John, not Quantum Nightcrawlers.
JB> Which, dear sir, seems to be the main reason it misleads so many so
JB> well. The above is 'limits,' equivalent in both directions. The
JB> _concepts_ --the mindstuff-- behind 'zero' and 'infinity,' however,
JB> are neither of them primarily _mathematical_ ones.
Amazing....Not mathematical concepts....
SS>> How shocking. Mathematically, I can push the limit equally in
SS>> either direction.
JB> Mathematically, you can. You must have missed the difference between
JB> "math" and "reality." "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit more easily
JB> than can "infinity." In imaging, zero _stops_ thought, but 'infinity'
JB> does not. (Can not.)
SS>> lim x/1 as x -+-> infinity = lim 1/x as x -+-> 0
SS>> You're debunked, Bait Son.
JB> I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
JB> (Thank God for small favors.)
Thank The Cosmic Star Goat for Mathematics, John Buoy. It keeps you
in your Quantum Corner of non-locality.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 02 Mar 97 04:12:58
EID:2c53 22622180
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3318fe4a
-> On 28 Feb 97 05:30:53, John Brawley got back to Mark.Kimes@f735.n102.z1.gryn.org
JB> "I was wrong."
JB> End thread now?
Try taking the quotes off off your statement the next time.
... "Bother", said Pooh, as he saw the mushroom cloud.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 03 Mar 97 11:06:26
EID:692f 226358c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331ab0b2
-> On 28 Feb 97 06:08:37, Jim Staal got back to Joe Seatter
JS> the earth's atmosphere would have to be to hold that much water?
JS> human beings would have been cooked in about 5 seconds...
JS> The earth also opened up and poured water out, according to scripture.
According to scripture, Jimbo, the earth is flat.
... You are usually insane; in lucid moments merely stupid.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 03 Mar 97 12:24:08
EID:dc08 22636300
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 331b1167
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 33198267
Judith Bandsma said "Al Debunks Applesauc" to Don Martin,
adding:
CJ> "Al, we miss you. Few as your posts were, they showed that
DM> Not even Al is capable of believing _this_ rhapsody. You write
JB> Don, I do believe Al's ego is such that he would believe it. He would
JB> consider it vindication for all the slings and arrows he's had to take
JB> from the Harpies...and from Curry (for not accepting Al's spin on
JB> math.)
JB> After all, he's cited Curtis as 'agreeing' with him on things before.
A nip here, a tuck there, and it's ready to put up on
the ol' web page. Apropo of nothing, here is a web page I
can recommend for the cartoons. Wiley is a local, whose home
base is the Washington Post. His "Non Sequitur" is often a
stitch. Point thy browser to:
http://wp1.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/comics/wiley/past.htm
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 03 Mar 97 12:40:02
EID:3ec2 22636500
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 331b1168
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33191216
Mr. Jiffy Lube, slipping and sliding on his favorite theme,
said "Murderous Christians" to Don Martin, adding:
KY> That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean
KY> specifically try to advance a pro gay agenda.
DM> But THAT, dimbulb, is _not_ a sexual activity: it
DM> is a political one.
KY> True, but it is a political activity promoting a sexual
KY> one.
What any political activity promotes is irrelevant to the
terms of the controversy about it: what _political_ reasons
have you for denying civil rights to homosexuals?
We already know about your sick religious ones;
fortunately, with the separation of church and state, these
are not supposed to be a basis for law.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: All
|Sub: Arrogance^3
|Date: 03 Mar 97 12:47:29
EID:9f3c 226365e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 331b1169
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 33197420
That self-styled prophet and true believer in the writings
of Arkologists, Bryson Hughes said "Kosher and Gentiles" to
Alan Hess, adding:
BH> This is why I declare the validity of the expression of
BH> Messianic Judaism for Jewish people, as well as the
BH> validity of Gentile faith in Messiah.
AH> Declare what you wish; however, actual Jews do not and
AH> will not consider your version of Christianity to be
AH> Judaism, no matter what you call it.
BH> And there are those who claim to be actual Christians
BH> who would also denounce what I teach. The thing is that
BH> we have to know for ourselves and be persuaded in our
BH> own minds.
BH> My experiences show me that some Christians approve and
BH> some don't; Some Jewish people approve and some don't.
BH> I simple go about my task of educating.
Educating, he calls it. _Educating_! Jesus H. Christ on
a faux-rubber crutch, EDUCATING!
Well, I suppose it suits him. His arrogance and
gullibility are appropriate for an education major.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Alternative of Straw.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 07:58:48
EID:5293 22643f40
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8990fd63
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 76443a2e
Hi Martin,
MG>In a weak moment I posted to you. I see that you still post with
MG>messages full of lies and misquoted scientists. You are truly a
MG>worthless bag of scum.
You are a lying son of a bitch.
ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
³ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
³³ Your message has been ³
³³ carefully placed in ³ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
³³ its very own, specially ³ Ú¿ ³------³
³³ prepared, luxuriantly ³ ³³ 0³ ³
³³ hand crafted porcelain ³ ³³ ³ ³
³³ filing Cabinet where ³ ³³ ³ ³
³³ it will receive the ³ _____________³³ ³ ³
³³ dignity and attention ³ (_______________) ÁÄÂÄÂÄÄÙ
³³ it deserves. ÄÄÄÄÄÄ> ³ ( )ÄÄÄÄÙ ³
³³ Thank you. ³ ( )ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ
³³ ³ (_________)
À³ ³
ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ
Just Hit Enter/Next to flush.!
... Help! I'm trapped at 0D1C:01DA.
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:02:30
EID:ba5c 22644040
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8991013f
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 76445c73
Hi Martin
BH>>hearing them sing. But I have heard one roar like a gloating
BH>>lion, though the angel was like an appearing star. To say I
BH>>didn't like that angel is
KS> Could you send me some of whatever you're smoking?
MG>I don't think he smokes it. I think this guy is getting it off of the
MG>backs of postage stamps.
What a devastatingly FUNNY man!
... Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: clones
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:10:30
EID:eb4d 22644140
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8991053d
REPLY: 3:711/933 3319bc87
Hi Anthony,
AG>Dear Karl Schneider,
KS> Well, 'Dolly', the first actual adult mammal clone is alive and
KS> well. Coincidentally, she's a sheep.
KS> I'm having a devil (oops) of a time trying to figure out what
KS> impact this will have on fundys...
AG>No, you're just having a Devil!
AG>I have no idea what impact this will have on "fundies" but it
AG>will have no impact on Christians. I fail to see how a cloned
AG>sheep can have anything to do with Christianity.
Well said.
"Evidence from the fossil record now points overwhelmingly
away from the classical Darwinism which most Americans
learned in High School; that new species evolve out of
existing ones by the gradual accumulation of small changes,
each of which helps the organism survive and compete in the
environment."
(Newsweek, 3/11/80, p. 54)
Laurie
... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:18:32
EID:cef6 22644240
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910943
Hi Mark,
(Re: yours of 26-Feb-1997, "Water and Flood.")
LA> Surely you know that most of the world's highest mountains
LA> have MARINE fossils at or near their peaks.
MK> Indeed. What's that got to do with the fact that
MK> there's not enough water available on the planet to flood
MK> the entire earth, nor is there any geological record of such
MK> a global (as opposed to local) flood,
The world's highest mountains were apparently the bottom
of a sea bed at one time. Their fossils show this. So at one
time they were NOT mountains at all. It is therefore
entitely probably that at one time the earth could have had
much much LESS irregularities in its surface.
Since we have enough water to cover a smooth globe to a
depth of 2 1/2 kilometers then it should be obvious that
there could have been a time when irregularities in the
Earths surface could have been less than 2 1/2 kilometers in
extent and there was NO land above water level at all!
So there is NOT any real problem with the AMOUNT of water
at all and it has everything to do with the irregularities
in the earth's surface. There is plenty of water!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Scurvy and Monkeys.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:19:50
EID:e34a 22644260
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 899109e5
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 26-Feb-1997, "Alternative or Straw.")
RM> -=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to David Worrell <=-
DW> What part of the word "superficially" are you having
DW> trouble with?
LA> None what ever. Why?
RM> I believe that David's point was that the word
RM> "superficially" is a dead giveaway to the fact that you
RM> have once again extracted this quote from it's context and
RM> provided your own, thus misrepresenting Dawkins intent.
Just the opposite. It is a "dead giveaway" to the fact
that Dawkins does not like the scientific principle that he
has just stated! He wrote a whole book where he admitted
that unless evolutionists can demonstrate a way to
dramatically "tame chance" they are STUCK with the necessity
of a Creator!
RM> Let's take an in depth look at a detail, Laurie. Let's
RM> talk about scurvy. How come God made us so that we get
RM> scurvy if we don't get enough vitamin C, but He made almost
RM> all other mammals so that they can manufacture their own
RM> vitamin C if they need to?
How does that have anything to do with with evolution?
Are you suggesting that when (if) we evolved from monkeys we
LOST an ability that we previously had evolved? Isn't that
going in the OPPOSITE direction that natural selection is
supposed to take us? Can you think of any reason why our
GREATER "survival ability" was brought about by such things?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:20:42
EID:0fb4 22644280
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910a57
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 26-Feb-1997, "Alternative or Straw.")
LA>> "The more statistically improbable a thing is, the
LA>> less can we believe that it just happened by blind chance.
LA>> Superficially the obvious alternative to chance is an
LA>> intelligent Designer."
LA>> (Dr Richard Dawkins (Department of Zoology, Oxford
DW>> What part of the word "superficially" are you having
DW>> trouble with?
LA> None what ever.
DW> THen you're even more stupid than I originally gave you
DW> credit for.
It is impossible for ANYONE to be as stupid or as
unscientific as an evolutionist. They even think that
everything just made itself from NOTHING and for no reason
and out of NOTHING!! The most primitive natives of the
world are nowhere near as stupid at that. Even they
seem understand the basic principle of Cause and Effect.
If you thought at all, you would have noticed that Richard
Dawkins was desperately trying to refute that basic
scientific principle and mislead people into believing that
improbable things happen all the time - specially in the
philosophy of evolutionism!
Quite obviously you are NOT an evolutionist because it
presents compelling evidence that it occurred, since there
isn't any such evidence. Your FAITH in evolution must
reflect some bias or prejudice that is NOT scientifically
rational or logical. Even Prof. S.J. Gould is quoted as
saying that;
[Well evolutionist] 'Stephen Gould and Niles Eldredge
(1977) put it this way: "Phyletic gradualism [gradual
evolution] . . . was never "seen" in the rocks.". . . '
"It [gradual evolution] expressed the cultural and
political biases of 19th century liberalism."
'That's what has been passed off in our school systems
for 100 years as the "fact of evolution" --- "the cultural
and political biases of 19th century liberalism."'
(What is Creation Science, Morris and Parker, (1983), p. 108)
(Gould's statement (if I read the reference correctly) comes
from; NATURAL HISTORY, "Evolution's Erratic Pace", (May,
1977)(page number now shown.)
So what are YOUR "biases" that make you accept the
mythology of evolution as science? Did you come from a
broken home or something and that triggered an
anti-religious attitude in you, or something like that?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:21:28
EID:671a 226442a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910aba
Hi Joe,
(Re: yours of 26-Feb-1997, "Water and Flood.")
JS> yes, but it dosn't follow that the earth was ever
JS> smooth.
LA> I was not arguing that it was, was I, but rather quoting
LA> you from an evolutionist source that was making a point about
LA> how MUCH water that exists on the earth!
JS> not enough for your flood to have happened.
Why not? There are huge grave yards of millions of fossils
of dead things buried in strata laid down by water in
places all over the world. Every kind of animal is found in
them of all (alleged) ages. If all the world's animals all
lived at different times then the evidence would support
many world wide flood events!
JS> plus, genesis 7:20 said the water rose 15 cubits, and
JS> covered the mountains. would you call a 20 foot high lump
JS> of earth a mountain?
LA> From the facts given by my evolutionary source it is
LA> obvious that mountains just under 2 1/2 kilometers high
LA> could have existed all over the place without that being a
LA> problem for Noah's Ark!
JS> ok, let me get this straight... the water rained down.
JS> therefore,it must must have been in the atmosphere. do you
JS> have any idea how hot the earth's atmosphere would have to
JS> be to hold that much water? human beings would have been
JS> cooked in about 5 seconds...
The earth's atmosphere did NOT need to hold "all that
water" at all? Where do you get that from? Sunday School?
The Genesis record said that the "fountains of the great
deep were broken up", or didn't anyone ever tell you that?
(Gen. 7:11)
JS> plus, in order to reach thier present positions in 6-8
JS> thousand years, the continents would have to have been
JS> moving at thousands of times the speed they move at now.
LA> Is that a real problem? Is there any reason why mountains
LA> should always have moved upwards at "present" rates? Hasn't
LA> anyone yet told you that the old idea that the "Present is
LA> the Key to the past" has now been rejectd by most
LA> evolutionists?
JS> the mountains would have had to have moved several
JS> miles down, and then several miles up, in 150 days. they'd
JS> have to have been made of jello...
That is not required at all? Why would it be? Mt.
Everest, for example was obviously once below sea level and
we now know that it has risen thousands of feet in the
recent past and is STILL rising slowly!
Now just suppose that Mt. Everest was below sea level at
the time of the flood and that was over 4,000 years ago. It
could have risen on an average of less than 8 feet per year
and still have reached its present height! Do you realise
that is an average of only about a quarter of an inch per day?
There is certainly plenty of evidence that Mt. Everest has
indeed risen in early historic times and that it was below
sea level before that.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Den Ceppa
|Sub: Flexible Dating.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:22:18
EID:0997 226442c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910b27
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 02-Mar-1997, "Flexible Dating.")
DC> On 26 Feb 97, Laurie Appleton got back to John Musselwhite
JM> The basic idea of evolution is the single most tested
JM> and studied things in the scientific world, Laurie.
LA> It must be frustrating indeed then for you to find that
DC> Hey, Laurie, tell us about your tour of Mt St Helens with
DC> Pres. Harry Truman. I missed that the first time around.
Well, it was Harry Truman alright but NOT the one that
was a President, as it turns out. Not to worry. Now, lets
see if we can upgrade your pathetic ignorance on many things
as well as your ethics. What about the BIG BANG?
"The Big Bang theory of cosmology.... has become central not
only to astronomy, but to all current theories of the basic
structure of matter and energy as well. Yet in the past few
years, observation after observation has contradicted the
predictions of this theory. Rather, such observations are far
more consistent with new theories based on the idea that the
universe has existed for an infinite time - without beginning
or end." (p. 4)
"Dissipating the energy of the Great Wall's formation in
twenty billion years would create a 1 percent distortion in
the background spectrum. For Tully's structures 2 percent would
be needed, and for the structure discovered by Koo and
colleagues, 5 percent of the energy in the background would be
needed."
"The COBE results ruled out such large energy releases.
Thus the microwave spectrum is "too perfect." The close
correspondence to the black-body curve, seen as confirmation of
the Big Bang theory, at the same time rules out any way of
forming the large-scale structure of the universe from the Big
Bang." (p. 31)
(The Big Bang Never Happened, (1992), Eric J. Lerner)
The above writer is one of the current minority that
reject the BIG BANG and he is one of those that
evolutionists will probably have to rely on when the Big
Bang finally blows up in their faces! Evolutionists can then
claim, as they did with things like Piltdown man, that there
was always a minority that did not believe it and therefore
"science has one again "self-corrected" itself."
No wonder so many evolutionists put up NO evidence any
more and simply content themselves with nasty personal
attacks on Creationists. They really have NOTHING now to go
on that has not already been "self-corrected"!!
So why do YOU stick so fanatically to such a shonky belief
system? Is it because your whole world outlook would be
shattered and leave you feeling betrayed and insecure, if
you were to intelligently face the facts? Evolutionists are
far more bigotted and worse than any FLAT EARTHER ever was!
At least hardly any one now believes in the flat earth do
they? So how long is it going to take you to wake up?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:23:04
EID:28f9 226442e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910b88
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 27-Feb-1997, "Water and Flood.")
DC> -> On 26 Feb 97, Laurie Appleton got back to Damien Wellman
LA> Surely you know that most of the world's highest mountains
LA> have MARINE fossils at or near their peaks. What does that
LA> tell you about how 'high' they must have been in the past?
DC> And, Laurie, there are many others that do not have those
DC> deposits.
Then why don't you tell me and others which these are? In
the meantime here is some more about mountains and things
to try to fill in some of your large areas of ignorance;
================ ooooooooooooooo =======================
The subsidence of the Gondwana continent could have
caused a strain on Western Asiá anä Africa¬ anä undeò thió
tensioî thå lanä musô have been rent and the Great rift
formed.
Gregory wrote: "The nearest approach in size [to the
Rift] can probably be found on the moon, whose clefts or
rills no doubt represent long, steeply walled valleys and
present to us much the same aspects as this east African
valley would do to any inhabitants of our satellite. Not
the least interesting of the points raised by the
African-Red-Sea-Jordan depression is the possibility that it
may explain the nature of those lunar clefts which have so
long been a puzzle to astronomers."(4)
The Rift was produced by tension; hence the rifts on the
moon were also caused by tension. Gregory followed Suess in
linking the Great Rift Valley with "the mountain chains due
to the last great uplift of fold mountains" in Europe, Asia,
and the Americas. Thus the time of the last uplift, if
established, would also clarify the time when Africa suffered
the Great Rift. It is probable, too, that the Rift began in
one great tension and increased in the next.
Gregory concluded: "This wide-spread valley system is
obviously not the result of some local fracture. Its length
is about one-sixth of the circumference of the Earth. It must
have some world-wide cause, the first promising clue to which
is the date of its formation."(5)
Although Gregory thought that the Rift first came into
being at an early epoch - because of marine fossils found in
it - he also saw signs of great earth movements along the
Rift "at a recent date". "Some of the fault-scarps are so
bare and sharp that they must be of very recent date. This
continuation of earth-movements into the human period is one
of the most striking features of the district." Gregory found
also that human memory retained recollection of the upheaval.
"All along the line the natives have traditions of great
changes in the structure of the country."(6)
Thå globå waó iî tensioî anä itó crusô crackeä alonç a
meridian for most of the length of the African continent. The
cause may have been the subsidence of the Indian Ocean, or
both tension in Africa and subsidence in the Indian Ocean
could have a common cause. The mountain ridge on the floor
of the Atlantic may have been produced by the same cause;
and the times of the rupture and the faulting must have been
coincident with one of the periods of mountain formation in
Europe and Asia.
------------------------------
4 Gregory, Geographical Journal, IV (1894); The Great
Rift Valley (1896), p. 6.
5 Gregory, "The African Rift Valleys," Geographical
Journal, LVI (1920), 31ff.
6 Gregory, The Great Rift Valley, pp. 5, 236.
--------------------------------
(Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, p. 81)
=================== oooooooooooooooo =================
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Water and Flood (b).
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:23:52
EID:6def 226442e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910be8
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 27-Feb-1997, "Water and Flood.")
DC> The valid point is that you _are_ a moron, Laurie. Each
DC> and every one one you posts is evidence to that very fact.
LA> You are all heart and joy, little boy. Here is something
LA> for you to "chew on" while you are playing with your toys;
DC> Yes, Laurie, you evidence your idiocy once again.
Now now, don't be naughty!
DC> Now, tell my about your walk with Truman.
Well we were looking for John Musselwhite, because he was
poking about the place looking for evidence of coal
formation . . . . :-)
So here is some more about Mountains, in the hope that we
might get your long stalled mind working for itself again rather
than simply repeating the nonsense that evolutionists have
rammed down your throat in school!
=================== 0000000000000000 ====================
The mountains rose from the beds of the seas and folded
and faulted. "What generates the enormous forces that bend,
break, and mash the rocks in mountain zones? Why have sea
floors of remote periods become the lofty highlands of today?
These questions still await satisfactory answers."(1)
Climate changed, and the continental ice cover formed.
"At present the cause of excessive ice making on the lands
remains a baffling mystery, a major question for the future
reader of earth's riddles."(2)
Species and genera of animals were extinguished. "The
biologist is in despair as he surveys the extinction of so
many species and genera in the closing Pleistocene [Ice
Age]."(3) Equally sudden and unexplained changes accompanied
the close of each geological period.
What caused tropical forests to grow in polar regions?
What caused volcanic activity on a great scale in the past
and lava flows on land and in the ocean beds? What caused
earthquakes to be so numerous and violent in the past?
Puzzlement, despair, and frustration are the only answers to
each and every one of these phenomena.
The theories of uniformity and evolution maintain that the
geological record bears witness that from time immemorial,
even from the time this planet began its existence, only
minute changes - caused by the wind blowing on the rocks, the
sand grains swimming to the sea - accumulated into the vast
changes. These causes, however, are inadequate to explain the
great revolutions in nature, and they evoke expressions of
futility on the part of the specialists, each in his field.
Ice and Tide
Having shown that only global catastrophes could have
brought about the building and spreading of ice covers, I shall
--------------------------------
1 C.R. Longwell, A. Knopf and R.F. Flint, A Textbook of
Geology (1939), p. 405.
2 Daly, The Changing World of the Ice Age, p.16.
3 L.C. Eiseley, "The Fire-Drive and the Extinction of the
Terminal Pleistocene Fauna," American Anthropologist. XLVIII
(1946).
--------------------------------
(Earth In Epheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, p. 122)
Let me know of you would like the continuation.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Joe Seatier
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:24:40
EID:09f0 22644300
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910c53
Hi Joe,
(Re: yours of 26-Feb-1997, "Water and Flood.")
JS> yes, but it dosn't follow that the earth was ever
JS> smooth.
LA> I was not arguing that it was, was I, but rather quoting
LA> you from an evolutionist source that was making a point about
LA> how MUCH water that exists on the earth!
JS> not enough for your flood to have happened.
Why not? There are huge grave yards of millions of fossils
of dead things buried in strata laid down by water in
places all over the world. Every kind of animal is found in
them of all (alleged) ages. If all the world's animals all
lived at different times then the evidence would support
many world wide flood events!
JS> plus, genesis 7:20 said the water rose 15 cubits, and
JS> covered the mountains. would you call a 20 foot high lump
JS> of earth a mountain?
LA> From the facts given by my evolutionary source it is
LA> obvious that mountains just under 2 1/2 kilometers high
LA> could have existed all over the place without that being a
LA> problem for Noah's Ark!
JS> ok, let me get this straight... the water rained down.
JS> therefore,it must must have been in the atmosphere. do you
JS> have any idea how hot the earth's atmosphere would have to
JS> be to hold that much water? human beings would have been
JS> cooked in about 5 seconds...
The earth's atmosphere did NOT need to hold "all that
water" at all? Where do you get that from? Sunday School?
The Genesis record said that the "fountains of the great
deep were broken up", or didn't anyone ever tell you that?
(Gen. 7:11)
JS> plus, in order to reach thier present positions in 6-8
JS> thousand years, the continents would have to have been
JS> moving at thousands of times the speed they move at now.
LA> Is that a real problem? Is there any reason why mountains
LA> should always have moved upwards at "present" rates? Hasn't
LA> anyone yet told you that the old idea that the "Present is
LA> the Key to the past" has now been rejectd by most
LA> evolutionists?
JS> the mountains would have had to have moved several
JS> miles down, and then several miles up, in 150 days. they'd
JS> have to have been made of jello...
That is not required at all? Why would it be? Mt.
Everest, for example was obviously once below sea level and
we now know that it has risen thousands of feet in the
recent past and is STILL rising slowly!
Now just suppose that Mt. Everest was below sea level at
the time of the flood and that was over 4,000 years ago. It
could have risen on an average of less than 8 feet per year
and still have reached its present height! Do you realise
that is an average of only about a quarter of an inch per day?
There is certainly plenty of evidence that Mt. Everest has
indeed risen in early historic times and that it was below
sea level before that.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Truman Tours.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:25:24
EID:2f61 22644320
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910cb2
Hi Robert,
(Re: yours of 27-Feb-1997, "President Truman tours.")
RC> But a tour of Mt. St. Helens by "former President Harry
RC> Truman" DOES seem realistic to you? Say, did you get his
RC> autograph, too?
Are you saying that you know for a fact that Harry Truman
never went to Mt. St. Helens?
LA> Perhaps you are desperately crying out for something to get
LA> your "teeth" into and there is really something "troubling you"?
RC> Laughing at you is no trouble at all, Mr. Appleton. Tell
RC> us another one!
The laughter of a fool of course! So here is something
that anyone with a functioning mind would be able to think
about.
=================== oooooooooooo =====================
The study of the magnetic properties of the clay of
Etruscan vases points to a reversal of the general magnetic
field of the earth, and also to a passage of the earth
through strong magnetic fields in historical times.
The Florida fossil beds at Vero and Melbourne proved - by
the artifacts found there together with human bones and the
remains of animals, many of which are extinct - that these
fossil beds were deposited between 2000 and 4000 years ago.
As brought out by Godwin, the two irruptions of the sea on
English shores also took place sometime in the second and
first millenia before the present era.
According to an earlier work, by Prestwich, the
irruption of the sea was of a very violent nature; it spread
to central France and the French Riviera, to Gibraltar,
Corsica, and Sicily, and to the entire area that stretches
to the lands of the ancient East.
In all these places animal bones have been found broken
but fresh; these bones of extant and extinct species have
been found in fissures and caverns, sometimes on the tops of
high hills, in great numbers. The bones found in English
caves, covered with diluvium, were also described as fresh
and unfossilized.
From observations on beaches in numerous places all over
the world, Daly concluded that there was a change in the
ocean level, which dropped sixteen to twenty feet 3500 years
ago; Kuenen and others confirmed Daly's findings with
evidence derived from Europe.
To these closely dated geological, climatological, and
archaeological evidences of catastrophes, we may add numerous
others which also point to the recency of the great
upheavals.
Animals, torn and broken, many of which are of extinct
forms, are found in enormous heaps in Alaska, their bones and
skin still fresh; the mammoth meat discovered in Siberia is
still edible; the bones of hippopotami in the rock fissures
of England still retain their organic matter.
The mountain chains of China and Tibet, of the Andes,
the Alps, the Rockies, and the Caucasus rose to their
present heights in the Late Stone and even in the Bronze
Age, and at those times (post-glacial) Africa was torn by
the Great Rift.(3)
We have the same late dating from all parts of the world,
and what is even more important, by all kinds of calendars,
------------------------------------
3 See page 82. [for documentation]
------------------------------------
(Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, p. 177)
================= oooooooooooooooo ===================
Let me know when you feel capable of doing some more
thinking!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Helpless Moron.
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:26:04
EID:f883 22644340
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910d08
Hi Robert,
(Re: yours of 27-Feb-1997, "Helpless Moron.")
LA> How does natural selection work UNTIL you have an already
LA> living animal that produces offspring,
RC> Whenever there are (potential) self-replicating
RC> processes, natural selection "works" for the following
RC> reason:
RC> Those processes which happen to replicate themselves (or
RC> some variation of themselves) best in their current
RC> environment will be more common in succeeding generations of
RC> the process. This applies even to processes that are not
RC> "already living animals."
Can you provide some examples of "those processes" that
are "potentially" self-replicating? From all natural chemistry
we have learned that they always become more and more simple
and more towards a lower order of complexity. They normally
move towards equilibrium and the most STABLE state!
LA> "Once we see, however, that the probability of life
LA> originating at random
RC> Gee, Liar Appleton, who ever claimed that life "originates at
RC> random?"
What OTHER way is there for life to originate, unless you
are claiming that there were extraterrestrial beings at work
who imparted "non-randomness" to it. Perhaps you beleive in
a Creator/God who carefully DESIGNED the whole of 'nature'
and the universe so that there was always many situations
where life almost HAD to come about? Is that your position
then?
How is it that no one has ever told you that even if
every possible complex molecule were somehow to arise in a
"Primordial soup" that that STILL would not cause 'life' to
begin? Our knowledge of chemistry shows that all the
parts would react in the WRONG ways to produce life.
Again didn't any of your teachers bother to tell you that
even our most highly educated biochemists have never been
able to work out how to produce life, even if they did have
all the complex chemicals in separate containers. They still
don't know what ORDER that they would have to mix them
anyway.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Helpless Moron (b).
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:26:42
EID:8cf7 22644340
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89910d54
Hi Robert,
(Re: yours of 27-Feb-1997, "Helpless Moron.")
RC> Kindly do yourself a favor, Laurie, and acquire a
RC> decent secular education. Quoting mindlessly from
RC> creationist tracts does not help you to think intelligently.
There is no such thing as an ' education' in the natural
sciences any more, but only an indoctrination in the
evolutionary mythology. A number of States in the USA
decided to correct this bad educational situation, but the
evolutionists, with the help of the ACLU managed to convince
one lonely little old Federal Judge in Arkansas that
Balanced Treatment would conflict with the constitution and
the State laws were invalidated. No doubt that Federal Judge
was himself an evolutionist!
RC> If you are capable of experiencing shame for your
RC> neverending stream of posts awash in your pitiful and
RC> well-known intellectual dishonesty, then I can only feel
RC> sorry for you.
Why is it a "shame" to want ones children and
grandchildred to be properly educated instead of being
BRAINWASHED by the myth of evolutionism?
RC> Perhaps this guilt is what drives you to your
RC> superstition?
How can there exist such a thing as "guilt" if, as you
appear to believe, if all life is just a "fortituous concourse
of atoms"? Perhaps you have been "up to something" for
which YOU yourself feel guilty and you are using your
pretended belief in evolution to try to quieten your own
guilt complex? What have you been up to??
RC> Or is it your superstition, rather, that drives you to
RC> such deception?
The world's greatest superstitions are those whose
advocates are terrified of open education and who, like the
communists insist on censorship of all views that conflict
with theirs. The communists were also fanatical
evolutionists and their whole system stinks to high heaven
and has been rejected after over 70 years of terror,
suffering, lack of human rights and FAILURE!
Laurie.
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 640/238 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:12:04
EID:b4fa 22626980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33190c24
* On 24-02-97 at 12:45, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Well, women?" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> It is the Promisekeeper's "our way, or no way" xenophobic
JS> RS> supremacism that is hateful.
JS> JS> Where do you find this?
JS> RS> From OutNow, Sept 19, 1995:
JS> Well gee, (sarcasm drip on) _that_ certainly sounds like an unbiased
JS> place to get info, alright...
Do you have any information to conclusively disprove the reported
facts in the events? I found no bias in the article concerned.
Can you provide some examples where the article would be
invalidated as an incorrect account of the events of late 1995 in
San Jose?
Let me guess, you are saying the source is not unbiased because,
well, you say so? How typically unevidenced of you, Jim.
Rod "...I thought not." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:16:06
EID:ed89 22626a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33190d16
* On 24-02-97 at 14:44, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Did they find the cult of Vernon was stockpiling TANKS? Or was
JS> RS> it that they just had a year's supply of NOODLES to keep them
JS> RS> going?
JS> JS> None of the above.
JS> RS> Of course not, simpleton.
JS> I find it quite amusing that a giggly little girl such as
------------------
JS> yourself would call one such as I 'simpleton'. LOL!
I find it amusing that you make the stereotypical assumption that
"gay men" are synonymous with "effeminate men".
But to the major whine of this post (there's one in any post of
yours, Jimbozo), because of your erudite claims, I call you a
simpleton :)
I'm surprised you could even spell it. Oh, that's right, I
provided the spelling above.
Had I misspelled it, would you have quoted the misspelling, like
with perjorative/pejorative? :) :)
Rod "...you *are* a simpleton, Jimbozo" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:28:08
EID:3b03 22626b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33190fe8
* On 24-02-97 at 14:46, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> Great skills than whom?
JS> RS> Greater than yours, dear boy. :) You are a knuckledragging Taco
JS> RS> Bell-ite :)
JS> Interesting. You claim to possess this great knowledge about me and
yet
JS> we have never met.
I'm just getting down to your level of "mischaracterise and
attack", Jimbozo :) :) I'm sure you've once been to Taco Bell,
and I know you're a knuckle-dragger :)
It comes with that "just risen from the apes" freshness :)
JS> JS> Try God's laws once.
JS> RS> Why? You've failed to show any compelling reason to do so.
JS> RS> And are you claiming that only simpletons are subject to God's
JS> RS> law? :) :)
JS> Where have I ever made such a claim?
Exactly, you've never shown any compelling reasons for me to
follow God's laws.
Unlike most atheists, I'm not a "fallen" case. I didn't get
Christianity foisted onto me as a child by parental compulsion.
I've never had to know your God. I am your worst enemy because
of it, because you cannot try and pull the heartstrings about how
much better it is to have a God :)
I've only known a life of Godlessness... It is a beautiful life.
I would offer it to you Jim, but you can't have it. You've
already had a God in your life. I can only offer you the next
best thing, a life with *no more Gods* in it.
There is an inherent beauty of being able to stand by for the
past 25 years and watch wackos do all sorts of things in the
names of their deluded religions.
To laugh at them in their stupid folly. I laugh at you, Jim,
because of your folly.
How deluded you will be as you have your last few seconds on
Earth, confident that the other side is waiting, and then the
realisation that it's not.
The scream in your mind -- for that fraction of a second while
you still have consciousness -- will be the eternal punishment
that awaits you. Then they'll rip the bible from your clutching
(and now dead) hand and probably throw it away.
Maybe you should take the courage to throw your bible away now,
rather than us wrench it from your hand before you start to rigor
mortis :)
JS> RS> I don't mind what Christians do behind closed doors in church.
JS> RS> It is their business. But when they take it out of the church
JS> RS> and expose it to innocent children, it is *SICK SICK SICK*
JS> JS> It is interesting to note here that you do not possess 10% of the
grace
JS> JS> I demonstrated in my statement. BTW, none are innocent:(Rom 3:23
NIV)
JS> JS> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
JS> RS> Don't worry, I'm sure you will understand that none are innocent,
JS> RS> and hence all those still born children, and all the unable to be
JS> RS> reached by age or illiteracy or foreign culture are going to burn
JS> RS> in HELLLLLL!!!
JS> Not if they have believing parents.
So now we don't have free will because it is based on our
parents' demise?
JS> RS> Eat my weiner, Taco Bell boy! :)
JS> No, not my bag. BTW, wht is with the 'taco bell' fixation?
Come on Jim, stop lying. Studies show that virtually all humans
have a curiosity to find out and experiment with sexuality. Even
if you are firmly heterosexually-oriented, I bet you've had some
fun thinking about trying the other side *just once*.
Rod "...eh? You can admit it!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't get stuck in a closet. Wear yourself out.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:29:10
EID:3d55 22626ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191026
* On 24-02-97 at 14:49, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Your Daily Brother Jim" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (19 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Let me guess, Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a US benevolent plan to
JS> RS> provide free power and energy to those cities? :) :) After,
JS> RS> that's the product of nuclear research :) :)
JS> No. The plan was to end WWII.
So you admit your claims on Agent Orange are duplicitous (that's
why you've snipped them from this reply?)
JS> JS> RS> "the nazi commie rice-chowin' sombees"?
JS> JS> Man you really are a bigot, aren't you? Who are you quoting here?
It
JS> JS> apparently is an original statement of yours.
JS> RS> Actually, I strung words of yours together :)
JS> No, you are a liar again. I don't recall using Nazi Commie and certainly
JS> not 'rice-chowin'.
Not describing the "gooks" anyway :)
Rod "...you're an idiot, Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:30:12
EID:7cd0 22626bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191064
* On 24-02-97 at 14:51, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "wisdom" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> How about abuse and violence on the part of the attendees?
JS> RS> Already detailed in another post.
JS> No, you did not.
Yes I did, Jimson-butthead.
Rod "....hey, Jimson-butthead, where's Wilbur-beavis?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:33:14
EID:ff08 22626c20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319111a
* On 24-02-97 at 14:52, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Yes she is female (obviously) and no I do not bring men home.
JS> RS> No. You screw them at the local gay baths, right? :) :)
JS> I don't screw men.
Come come, now, Jimson, tell the truth. We know about you and
the leather bikers... :)
JS> JS> RS> You like three-in-bed sorta action, eh?
JS> JS> I'm sure it is rather entertaining, but apparently you have more
JS> JS> experience in that department than I.
JS> RS> Actually, I have no experience in the department, to your
JS> RS> apparent dismay :)
JS> Then why did you bring it up?
Because you were the one talking about not "bringing men home".
It's obvious that either:
1) you bring women home instead (else you would have
claimed you bring noone home for sex)
2) you don't bring men home because you sleep with them
elsewhere :) :)
You're the one who alluded to it. See above :)
Rod "...oh, you are so erudite, Jim.... NOT!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:40:16
EID:ca58 22626d00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331912c0
* On 24-02-97 at 14:54, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Around the World in..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> You know, you beef about 'in-your-face' Christians, but with your
JS> JS> 'death-wish' crap about Lev 20:13, you appear to be one of those
JS> JS> 'in-your-face' gay dudes typified by the 'gay guy in the fast food
JS> JS> joint skit' I just saw last night on 'In Living Color'.
JS> RS> The point in question is that I'm not in the face of people, but
JS> RS> they are in mine...
JS> I never have been.
Yes you have. Remember about asking me to "try god" in a
previous post? I'll give you a clue, read the reply to you I
made about 3 replies back. It's in there.
Further, you have not yet validated your claim that I'm an "in
your face" person. I've not ever tried to sway your opinion
to something else, merely argued your dysfunctional views :)
JS> RS> and I get rid of them equally as quick by a
JS> RS> good debunking.
JS> If whatyou do here and on the channel is any indication, I doubt that.
I've debunked you over and over again. It's got you to the point
of making baseless allegations about me. Isn't it so nice that
my husbear is now on the echo to debunk you too :)
JS> RS> You've been debunked by me so many times.
JS> The first is yet to come...
How about that first/third million-man-march? :) :)
How about me debunking you about sexual orientation being a choice? :) :)
How about me debunking the "benevolent" promisefilth? :) :)
JS> RS> Yet you still come back and flaunt your heterosexuality,
JS> Ha! There's a laugh. i don't even mention it (unless in rsponse to
one
JS> of your suggestions to sexuality). You're the 'hi, I'm _gay_' dude.
Do
JS> you ever look in the mirror?
Come come, now Jim, you mention your "wife" all the time. This
is a display of heterosexuality :) :) It's also advertising.
JS> RS> and display your arrogance,
JS> RS> and even get high-and-mighty and say something about curtailing
JS> RS> rights (or even lives) of .
JS> Evidence??? When have said toyou anything about curtailling anyone's
JS> 'rights'?
You've claimed that gay people have equal rights already in the
US, ergo, any claim for equal rights is a "special rights" claim.
This has been debunked. I clearly showed you that under US law,
gay people are treated atrociously. I'd say as second-class
citizens, but that'd probably not even fit. Try third-class :)
Of course, then you went on to say that "Jimson Staal doesn't
discriminate", even though your original claim was that the US
doesn't :)
Nice rephrase of the argument, but you lost.
JS> RS> At that point, dear pointy-head, I take you to task and debunk
JS> RS> you.
JS> Again, it hasn't happened yet...
See above. It's happened many a time.
JS> RS> How about the ProfitKeepers? :) :)
JS> I know nothing of this 'profit keepers' you speak of...
That's right. You're ignorant to the evidence that the Promise
Keepers are a profit (rather than prophet) motivated group.
They only want you for your money, and the ability to get you to
do what they want. And you believe it, Jim. You're a gullible
fool!
Rod "...you're a sucker, Jimson!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I take my pet lion to church every Sunday. He has to eat!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:46:18
EID:ff08 22626dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319142a
* On 24-02-97 at 14:58, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Yeah? You got a problem with that? Anything particularly gay about
JS> JS> that?
JS> RS> Well, the fact that he loved one of his disciples. Read John :)
JS> You got a problem with that? Anything particularly 'gay' about that?
Why does the bible specifically single out one disciple as being
"the one he loved". If it is given Jesus loves us all, then a
special mention about this very special relationship with a very
special disciple could be what???
JS> JS> RS> No doubt he *recruited them* at an early age by "ritual".
JS> JS> Incorrect. The 'recruitment' of the disciples is outlined in the
JS> JS> Gospels.
JS> RS> Oh yeah, and he probably fucked the one 'he loved', see John. :)
JS> RS> :) :) :) :)
JS> No evidence of it.
Come on. You know what happens in Gardens at Gethsemane :)
JS> JS> RS> Had long nancy boy hair.
JS> JS> Again, see above question..
JS> RS> He has a big bushy beard too, right... :) :)
JS> I have no idea...
Come on. All those pathetic videos the religious right peddle
about "Jeeezus" have him as having long hair, a beard, and white
flowing robes.
So *nancy*. I bet he went to Sodom's, the local Judean gay bar,
to pick up his disciples.
JS> RS> Never stood up and enslaved women, minorities, etc. That's the
JS> RS> sign of a weak Christian, right? :) :)
JS> No.
I thought all proper Christians enslaved their women and
minorities :) :) Something about slavery and women not being
teachers in the bible.
JS> JS> They do, eh? What more would gay men know about 'life tips' than
JS> JS> straight men?
JS> RS> We know a LOT more about tips for women. :) :)
JS> Why? How?
Because we do. Because we listen.
JS> RS> They confide in us more.
JS> Why? How?
Because they trust us, because we listen and understand. :)
JS> RS> We even sometimes go lookin' at guys :) :) *shock!*
JS> So?
So? Does the idea of going lookin' at men turn you on, Jimbozo?
JS> JS> RS> He was living the gaaaaay lifestyle, Jim. Deal with it.
JS> JS> Interesting. You have listed all these things in a manner which
JS> JS> suggests that you consider them degrading attributes.
JS> RS> Only degrading to your belief system :)
JS> No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner. All of the
JS> things you listed (compassion, understanding, kindness) appear as
JS> desireable attributes in any person, man or woman.
Yet you display none of them. Need I remind you what you have
said in the past about certain groups of people (heck, certain
people) which have been clear cases of bearing false witness.
I'm sure Fredric can show you the quote file of all your quotes
:)
Rod "...there's an especially nasty anti-gay one of yours in
there" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:47:20
EID:c45c 22626de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191468
* On 24-02-97 at 15:04, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Third, actually.
JS> JS> First, actually, Aussie boy.
JS> RS> Third "million-person assembly and march" moronic swamp-water
JS> RS> sucker.
JS> JS> No, it will be the first. Not only the first actual one, but also
the
JS> JS> first documented one.
JS> RS> No, it will be the third behind the 1987 March on Washington, and
JS> RS> the 1996 Million Man March.
JS> RS> Third, dear boy, THIRD.
JS> No, it will be the first. The others merely were imagined at that
JS> figure. This will be actual.
Actually, I have been corrected. It is the FOURTH in the past 10
years. The 1987 March on Washington, the 1993 March on
Washington II, and the 1996 Million Man March.
And I doubt your claims will be fulfilled.
Rod "...because ignorance is your virtue, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Steve just doesn't give
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:50:22
EID:6efa 22626e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319151e
* On 24-02-97 at 20:42, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Steve just doesn't give" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> DH>> Never do a nickel's worth of business with a zealot.
DH> RS> Ah, I'd never do it out of principle. Why should I go and feed
DH> RS> their family. They have a deity construct to feed them if they
DH> RS> can't afford to live. And what humble pie it is... :)
DH> As if there isn't enough cult sickness, this does underscore one
DH> of the ironies. Imagine a sane person ripping someone off from
DH> their hard-earned money, then proudly tossing 10% into the
DH> collection plate. Can't imagine it? Me either.
I know, it is a sad blight on human existence that not only do
they make *you* tithe in profits, a proportion goes into the
collection plate of a group (most likely) who wishes to eliminate
the freedoms I may have and the equality that I desire :)
DH> I'm not sure if I've ever met a "serious" Christian who doesn't
DH> regularly bullshit the god he believes in.
I know of a number of committed, decent Christians, Dave. I
classify two of them as best friends. Why? Because they have
the courage to reach out and understand people, rather than to
sit in ignorant judgement with bible in one hand, one eye being
covered by the other so that they may not see any biblical
proscriptions that they are breaking.
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 02 Mar 97 13:53:24
EID:7883 22626ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331915d4
* On 24-02-97 at 20:48, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Convention on the Rights" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> RS> Rod "...maybe we should push the APA to examine the psychosis of
DH> RS> religious *fundamentalism* and have it classified, especially
DH> RS> given the recent spate of abortion clinic murderers.
DH> RS> Pathological belief-system dysfunction, we could call it." Swift
:)
DH> It was actually proposed in the DSM-IV draft. In the second draft
DH> it was still proposed as "fundamental cult attachment" by researchers
DH> who work in the debriefing field. The treatment is exactly the same
DH> as for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (Repetitive) and so are the
DH> symptoms.
DH> It got lumped in with PTSD-R, and then PTSD-R (sadly) got included
DH> with PTSD. Colleagues of mine who work in a Provincial psychiatric
DH> facility, some of whom were on the DSM-IV committee, diagnose
DH> religious abuse and cult membership as Borderline Personality
DH> Disorder for the record but treat it with the above techniques.
DH> In this area there are several support groups for ex-fundies. Gives
DH> one hope for the human condition.
Yes, there are a number of hopes. But it would be nice if the
revision DSM-V (whenever that comes up) contains a clearly
defined area of psychological disorders related to cult and
religion indoctrination. Maybe the activities of the likes of
Paul Hill and John Salvi, and the militia groups and fringe
loonies who cause domestic terrorism in the name of religion can
be finally classified as in need of serious help.
Rod "...because they are a threat, and *are* mentally imbalanced
to the point of not being able to function with the rest of
reality" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves? Not on my salary he doesn't.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:02:26
EID:33f6 22627040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331917f2
* On 23-02-97 at 12:30, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> I have no problem with the quote. I just want an answer to my question
JS> RS> The answer is "yes". It is ok to judge those who judge you.
JS> RS> That's even biblical, you moron :) :)
JS> Not for mere humans. The scripture does not refer to that. On the same
JS> merit that one judges others, God will judge him.
Bullshit, Jimson. It only says:
"JUDGE NOT, LEST YOU BE JUDGED"
It doesn't say by God. It says that you will be judged in
return. I suspect it has something to do with the realisation
that if you are hypocritical to judge your brothers, they will
judge you in return.
However, it's clear that I'm not bound by your Book of Lies(tm),
and hence I can judge you at any time I like. It's nice to know
you admit you can't judge me in return (unless you're willing to
be judged by your God negatively).
Oops. You've judged me in the past. "Girly" or something, was
what you said. I suppose you will be going to hell, you
hypocrite.
JS> JS> RS> Those people deserve a similar and equally damning opposition
to
JS> JS> RS> their agenda of hatred.
JS> JS> What has any of this to do with not recognizing Christians as human?
JS> RS> I've never stated such a belief, Jim. No matter how many times
JS> RS> you say it, it won't come true :) :)
JS> That is what this is all about. You made reference to Christians as
not
JS> being human.
No I did not. The argument point was you claiming that your
hatred of gay people was justified because you claimed that I
hated Christians.
Of course, I don't hate Christians, I hate the Christianity. :)
There is a difference :)
I argue with fundamentalist Christians, quite rightfully, though :)
JS> JS> And you, sir, are an ignorant liar! You know nothing of me, and
JS> JS> certainly from your post, you know nothing of the inspiration of
Jesus.
JS> RS> The inspiration of Jesus is one whereby you believe, or burn.
JS> RS> Most would call it blackmail. Deluded people call it "salvation".
JS> A good alegory would be to throw a lifepreserver to a drowning person
and
JS> that person refuses to avail himself of it and drowns. No blackmail
JS> there.
Of course, you're making the assumption that the person is
drowning. I make the allegory that religion is someone throwing
a life preserver to someone in calm waters 50 metres from the
nearest beach, then shouting to them "you're drowning... we NEED
to save you"...
BTW, you spelled allegory wrong.
Rod "...you're soooo erudite, Jim.... NOT!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again 2/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:03:28
EID:5c25 22627060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191830
* On 23-02-97 at 12:36, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Emasculation: The removal of the male penis. The
JS> RS> principal goal of feminism.
JS> good one, Rush. Amen and preach on...
Rush didn't write that, BTW, Jimson.
But it's nice to know you are a Ditto/Doo-doo Head
Rod "...Jimson is a Rush-ditto-head!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Can I put my Sharp in your mainframe on the desktop?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again 2/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:04:30
EID:5c25 22627080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319186e
* On 23-02-97 at 12:37, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (09 Feb 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Gay: Used to mean happy or joyful. Has now been corrupted
JS> RS> by the politically correct to mean "Sexually
JS> RS> Challenged".
JS> Again...seems to be a correct call by the rush-man...
Nice to know that you now agree that "sexually challenged" is a
word you would use, in contradiction to your claim that it was a
terrible blight on my vocabulary to use the rhetoric of the
right-wing to flame the right-wing.
Don't you remember the earlier replies in this thread by you?
Rod "...no... of course not. BTW, Rush didn't write the above
line, moron Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:06:32
EID:33f6 226270c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331918e8
* On 23-02-97 at 12:39, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> AS> Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
JS> AS> often complains about bigoted treatment towards
JS> AS> gays, Rod would doubtle
JS> AS> be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to another
JS> AS> group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
JS> RS> Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
JS> RS> emulated into action.
JS> JS> I'm sure there are many anti-gays out there that believe they have
the
JS> JS> exact motivation as you.
JS> RS> And what are my motivations, Jim, since you claim to know them?
JS> Right here, as you have stated:
JS> RS> Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
JS> RS> emulated into action.
No, Jimson, this is not a manifesto of my desired actions.
Anyway, the legitimate concerns of mine manifest themselves in
adequate defenses of my freedoms and liberties, with a good
debunking for all :)
Rod "...like debunking you for a start! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:07:34
EID:2925 226270e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191926
* On 23-02-97 at 12:42, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> JS> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> JS> JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> JS> Which current message might that be?
JS> RS> The one in which you challenge Fredric to provide some posts of
JS> RS> yours that show your homohatred.
JS> RS> This post shows it. See the above quotation.
JS> Sorry, pal, it is very biblical and demonstrates no hatred on my part.
Actually, it demonstrates hatred because the bible is neither
universally believed, nor mandated into law.
Neither is it justification for discriminations, as you would
like it to be :)
JS> RS> Rod "... you are a PROVEN homohater, Jimbozo, no matter how much
JS> RS> you deny it" Swift :)
JS> Evidence?????
See above.
You said it, you eat your words.
Rod "...you're a moron, Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:16:36
EID:0059 22627200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191b44
* On 23-02-97 at 12:44, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the promise keepers" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> That's about 96% of earnings being profit.
JS> What do you define as 'profit'?
I note you didn't deny that the ProfitKeepers didn't make all
that money on that one conference. Nor did you provide
alternative figures. I do admit Marilyn has identified other
possible expenses, amounting to about a similar expenditure.
But we can safely assume that at least 85% of the ProfitKeepers'
income from ticket sales is purely profit.
The fact is that the ProfitMakers could hold conferences and
still make a modest operating profit (for stability) with tickets
on sale for $10, rather than $65.
But for the definition of profit:
prof.it (n) -- 1) excess of revenues over outlays and
expenses in an enterprise over a
given period of time, usually a year.
2) the monetary gain derived from an
investment.
3a) income derived from property or an
investment, as contrasted with capital
gains.
3b) the ratio of this income to the
investment or principal.
4) [Economics] the income or reward
accruing a successful entrepreneur
and held to be the motivating factor
of all economic activity in a
capitalist economy.
5) a gain, benefit or advantage.
(vb) -- 6) to gain or cause to gain profit.
Hence profit is that which they make out of you.
Tens of millions of dollars per annum going into the pockets of church
leaders in honorariums, most likely. Those rich cars and houses.
You know, all the typical Christian excesses made by fleecing the
gullible like you, Jimson :) :)
Rod "...I bet that the PromiseKeepers have some great investments
in their portfolios -- mansions, cars, you know" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 02 Mar 97 14:27:38
EID:3b03 22627360
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33191dda
* On 23-02-97 at 12:49, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Describe this alleged 'healthy pride'?
JS> RS> Positive self-image, self-esteem, self-value, self-worth.
JS> JS> You have done well.
JS> RS> Not that you could judge such a thing, Mr Erudite.
JS> I just looked at your list and responded accordingly...
You are commanded not to judge. I'll have to set a harpy onto
you if you don't behave, Jimson.
JS> JS> Now which of the above do you lack (and why) that
JS> JS> makes you so hateful towards Christians?
JS> RS> I lack none of the above. The premise of the second part of your
JS> RS> question is erred. I do not hate Christians.
JS> The evidence is clear, both here and on the channel...
I don't hate Christians. I hate Christianity. I hate the
actions of some Christians. There is a difference.
I love you Jim, and care about your eternal salvation from the
arms of Jesus and into the realms of reality.
JS> RS> I hate holier-than-thou assholes.
JS> I guess you have no problem with me then, eh?
Yes, I have no problem hating your holier-than-thou crap, Jimson.
But I love you, I just hate what you do. I love the sinner and
hate the sin, Jim.
We want to help you Jim. Help you out of your erred and sinful
ways. Help you to become a better human. Resistance is futile,
in the end :)
JS> RS> There *is* a difference, even though
JS> RS> you'd like most Christians to be holier-than-thou assholes like
JS> RS> you, Jim. :)
JS> Evidence to support your ad hominem attack on me here?
Yes, I agree, there is no ad hominem attacks on you here :) :)
Remember, I'm attacking your beliefs or actions, not you. Love
the sinner, hate the sin, remember? We *love you*, Jim, and we
want to save you from your sins of Christianity.
JS> Evidence to support your allegations that I would like others
JS> to be that way?
Because you recruit people to be Christian, and because the only
true Christian is one modelled after your beliefs and traits in
Christianity, and because you are a holier-than-thou asshole,
yes, you want more Christians, and you want them more to be like
you. However, Jim, there is salvation for you.
Remember! Origin of the Species: p316! Darwin loves you and
died for your sins! :) :)
JS> JS> Everything above comes from within.
JS> RS> Isn't it great to not have to have some imaginary deity from
JS> RS> which to gain self-worth and value from.
JS> My God lives within me.
Did he bend you over first? Can we scan your body for this
god's biological signs-of-life?
Anyway, we offer salvation to you Jimson, the ability to let go
and to become a better human. We hate your sins, but love you,
Jim! We hate your sins, but love you, Jim.
JS> RS> My, oh my, what will
JS> RS> happen to you when you lose your faith, and enter into a state
of
JS> RS> depression which will last for years, and all that self-loathing
JS> RS> for the fact you deceived yourself for decades.
JS> I have had many bouts with severe depression...not due to lack of
JS> faith... and have come back every time.
What a shame. If only you'd ended it all and found your maker.
However, there is hope. We can give you salvation from your
mental slavery, Jimson.
JS> RS> I truly pity you, Jim, because you will die a very lonely and
JS> RS> confused old man.
JS> I hope you live for many years as well...I almost made 50 before I
JS> suffered my first broken bone...
That's ok. All your bones will be broken after you've rotted
away to nothing Jimson. But there is hope and salvation!
JS> JS> It is called 'self-affirmation'. Do you have the opinion that
JS> JS> by putting your lies on me that you are building yourself up?
JS> RS> Please elucidate said lies.
JS> Things like being biased against gays and the like...
But you are. Fredric Rice has posted the evidence on quite a
number of occasions. If you wish to recant your statements, I
give you the chance. I am fair, Jimson, unlike what you would
have us all believe.
However, you are doomed to repeat your lies unless you receive
salvation from your sin of being a follower of Christianity. If
you continue these sins, you will be destined to repeat the words
you've said before that you now claim to have never said, or
never meant.
Rod "...we offer you salvation from your mental slavery and pain,
because we love you Jim, but hate your sins" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 02 Mar 97 15:12:40
EID:3b03 22627980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33192868
* On 23-02-97 at 12:55, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Oh, so that's why Christians don't attempt to convert people
like
JS> JS> RS> me??? Because they are too chicken??? :) Afraid their theology
JS> JS> RS> will be dismantled by me???
JS> JS> No. Here is the reason:
JS> RS> [...then Jim failed to give a real reason, only quoted silly bible
JS> RS> passages, yet again proving that for every bible passage, there
JS> typical of you to flee from the sword of the scripture, Rod...
Flee something? No. Ignored it. You're the spindoctor though,
so I guess what you say *must* be true.
Now, care to try and convert me to being a Christian? To do so,
you must at least provide credible and unwavering proof of your
deity to the exclusion of all others.
Bible passages containing circular logic to their own proof are
not sufficient to break the ground of "independent and unbiased"
proof :) :)
Mind you, I'm sure if you presented such proof of a God, I would
not be the only convert :)
My statement still stands. Christians prey on weak individuals
and provide the hopeless with a sense of hope -- at a very very
great price... Their own enslavery.
JS> RS> ... yet again proving that for every bible passage, there
JS> RS> is an equal and opposite bible passage -- the second law of
JS> RS> bibliodynamics].
JS> So provide one for whatever scripture I quoted that you are fleeing
JS> from (you failed to quote it, so I have no idea what it was)
Don't you archive your posts of stupidity? What a shame. :)
JS> JS> My intention here is not to degrade you, necessarily, but it is
JS> JS> reflective upon your attitude towards scripture.
JS> RS> My attitude towards scripture is that it is irrelevant. It also
JS> RS> makes the user of such an irrelevant text also irrelevant and a
JS> RS> laughing stock. :)
JS> Again, typical response from one afraid of God and His Word.
Afraid of something that doesn't exist, and a book written by men
for the specific enslavery of the masses? I don't think so.
Attacking it for what it is? Yes... definitely.
JS> RS> I pity you, Jim, because you could not provide an answer to the
JS> RS> question -- your bible did. Don't you think for yourself?
JS> I find all my answers in the Bible.
What is 46 x 29? You cannot use a calculator, nor paper and
pencil, nor your brain. You must find it in the bible.
Then tell me what the ratio of a circle's circumference is to
its radius or diameter :) That one I *know* is in your bible :)
JS> RS> Have you lost all capability to? Is this what Christian
JS> RS> "Free-will"(tm) is?
JS> Where have I _ever_ indicated I believe in 'free will'. I have posted
JS> many messages in support of just the opposite position.
So you believe God predestinates us to heaven and hell before
we're even born or even capable of committing sin? Why would he
ever allow us to be born?
Or does that explain why he's the greatest abortionist of all time?
JS> RS> The freedom to choose to stop thinking, and
JS> RS> start bleating like a moronic sheep following a flock of deluded
JS> RS> souls on the live-sheep-export truck of existence?
JS> I know nothing of whatyou are talking about...
One of Australia's exports is livestock. Due to silly
superstitions held by others like you (namely Muslims), we have
to export them live to the Middle East. It is a common site to
see sheep transport trucks making their way to the dockyards here
when another shipment is about to go out...
Your freedom to choose to stop thinking, and instead start
bleating like a moronic sheep following a flock of deluded other
sheeps with deluded souls, is like that of being on the
live-sheep-export truck of existence...
...eventually you will slashed across the throat with the
jibbering screams of your slayer claiming you are now "Halal" for
your own protection. Either way, you lose ;)
Rod "...you do realise that your choice to become a bleating
Christian sheep ditto-head moronic loser for Jesus can be helped,
Jimbo. We're waiting to save your errant, sinful soul for
Bertrand Russell!" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 15:42:42
EID:a8ce 22627d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33192f72
* On 23-02-97 at 13:02, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> The disingenuous soul Jim Staal has failed to respond to the
JS> RS> section of my post that clearly states that there is
JS> RS> governmentally-mandated inequality for gay people, thereby
JS> RS> contradicting that he did not know of any. This is after he
JS> RS> dodged the question and claimed that the answer to the question
JS> RS> of governmental discrimination was: "Jim Staal doesn't treat gays
JS> RS> unequally".
JS> RS> Now he's deleted all that, to hide the truth :) Nice, eh? :)
JS> typical lie.
So why did you snip my excellent examples of US governing bodies
discriminating against gay and lesbian citizens (in contradiction
to your claims that gays and lesbians already had full civil
rights in the United States), and then go on to say (and you can
see it below) that *YOU* don't discriminate...
... thereby clammering to cover up the fact that you first
claimed that no government in the US discriminates against gays,
then the second claim that *you don't know of any cases* of US
governments discriminating against gays, and now the third claim
that *you* don't discriminate against gays.
A narrowing of scope, no doubt, because of a double debunking. :)
See, the good thing is that just below, you repeat your second
claim...
JS> JS> I know of no governmental examples of inequality. That _was_ your
JS> JS> question, clearly stated above.
JS> RS> Too bad you couldn't be so honest as to leave the clearly
JS> RS> exampled case of discrimination against gay people :)
JS> There was no example given, just your usual rants...
Well, since you snipped them, let's list them:
* Mandated constitutional discrimination or attempts at
discrimination against gays in the jurisdictions of:
COLORADO -- (overruled, US Supreme Court, 1996)
MISSISSIPPI -- (movement to ban gays from
marrying, 1997 ballot)
WASHINGTON -- (attempt to ban gays from marrying
and other civil rights by constitutional
amending ballot)
HAWAII -- (attempt to ban gays from marrying and
other civil rights by constitutional
amendment, and the thwarting of a case
in progress for equal civil rights)
* Mandated discriminatory laws or attempted laws in
the jurisdictions of:
26 DIFFERENT STATES -- 1997 sees 23 different
states curtailing the rights of gays
and lesbians to civil rights of marriage
and partnership. 34 states dealt with the
issue in 1996, 4 in 1995.
IN 41 STATES -- It is quite legal to fire someone
for job related performance. However, it
is generally accepted that job performance
or capability is independent of any
non-job factors, except, of course, if
a person is gay. In that case, their
homosexuality is *obviously* something
that can affect their ability to do a
job, and hence someone can have their
job terminated (or not be hired) because
of their private life.
UNITED STATES -- Passage of the Defense of
Marriage Act, clearly unconstitutional.
GAO reports that there are 1049 federal
laws giving special treatment to spouses,
which are hence denied to all couples
of the same-sex, including immigration,
the right to be automatic next of kin,
immunity from testimony against spouse,
the ability for one to pass their social
security to another partner, joint
insurance, mandatory treatment of
surviving spouse as a next-of-kin in
probate matters, recognition of partner
as automatic spouse and next-of-kin for
emergency medical procedures.
UNITED STATES -- Gays and lesbians are not
allowed to serve in the nation's armed
forces, even though the reasons cited
(that soldiers would be uncomfortable
fighting alongside gays) is pointless
considering the US armed forces currently
serves alongside and in alliance with
many armies that allow gay and lesbian
officers to serve openly, such as
Australia, New Zealand, Canada,
Switzerland, Norway, The Netherlands,
etc. If a gay or lesbian member of the
armed forces is serving, if they do not
openly admit they are gay or lesbian,
their superior and fellow officers are
supposed to abide by a "do not ask"
policy. In recent months, it has been
exposed that the armed forces is not
carrying out this mandated policy of
not asking, and there are now hundreds
of claims of "witch hunts" against gay
and lesbian armed forces personnel --
something "don't ask, don't tell, don't
pursue" was supposed to stop. Despite
the policy, the number of discharges from
the military due to homosexuality remains
at about the same level as it did prior
to the institution of the "don't ask,
don't tell, don't pursue" policy.
OKLAHOMA -- Attempt to pass laws allowing for the
mandatory removal of children from
any parent who is gay or suspected of
being gay in custody hearings for child
custody.
FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
mother and gave custody to father. Father
is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
IDAHO, WASHINGTON, MAINE, OREGON -- Attempts to get
ballot measures similar to CO Amendment 2
denying gay people civil rights under the
law and the equal protection under the law.
There are more, Jimson. There are so many more. Above, there
are more than 1100 examples of inequality before the law. 1049
of them from one act of Congress alone.
Read some of the information in the Queer Resources Directory at:
http://www.qrd.org/pub/QRD/legal
Read about the case of a woman not being allowed to have custody
of her own child, instead it going to her own grandmother.
Read about the case of the lesbian couple which had a car
accident, and the torture of one of the two being denied access
to the hospital bed or treatment decisions by the family of the
other.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend 2/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 15:42:44
EID:58ce 22627d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33192f74
>>> Continued from previous message
Read about the cases of gay and lesbian partners being denied
access to the funerals of their deceased partners.
Read about the cases of immigration discrimination. The Lesbian
and Gay Immigration and Asylum Rights Task Force in New York now
estimates more than 30,000 couples live in different nations.
Read about them, Jimson, then come back and tell us that the US
treats all of it's citizens fairly, justly, and equally.
Then have the guts to stand up and say that it's wrong and start
working towards equal treatment. If civil marriage rights and
recognition under the law were granted, the majority of inequities
in the law would disappear.
JS> RS> I can't believe you could fall for such a basic troll :)
JS> What 'troll'? I am merely taking you at your word.
And you fell for it. Look at the definition of "husband" in the
dictionary, then consider that we've made vows to each other :)
JS> RS> You are too funny, Jim. So, tell me why a "piece of paper" is
JS> RS> required for a marriage. I note many faiths don't issue pieces
JS> RS> of paper for ceremonial marriage.
JS> Makes it legal and all that. I don't care what other alleged 'faiths'
JS> do, BTW...
Civil marriage is quite independent of religious marriage, Jim.
Are you saying that your vows of love to your wife meant nothing
and are not the marriage, and the little piece of paper issued by
the state is?
Further, is the state running out of paper? Is there a supply
problem with marriage licences? Are there limits to the number
of them? -- since the answer to all is "no", why are some people
of faith so selfish as to want to restrict certain people from
marrying certain other people?
It's not like the state is going to run out of marriage
licences...
Rod "...of course, the reason some people don't want people of
the same-sex to marry is because of religious bigotry and an
attempt to establish their religion in law -- something that
breaks the *first* amendment, plus probably the 9th, 10th and
14th" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 02 Mar 97 15:46:46
EID:ed89 22627dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193066
* On 23-02-97 at 13:05, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
JS> RS> Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
JS> RS> Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
JS> RS> in Jesu..
JS> No evidence anyone in that incident was acting due to their alleged
JS> 'faith'...
Come come, now Jimson. Tell us about Elohim City, Oklahoma, and
how they are all people of "non-faith" :) :)
JS> JS> RS> So abortion clinic murders is not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> RS> Were John Salvi and Paul Hill "US residents, targetting US-based
JS> JS> RS> targets, acting to cause terror, in the name of their religion?"
JS> JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. (I'm getting used to it, though)
JS> RS> Wahhh. The question's too hard to answer!
JS> Never said that.
Were the acts of domestic Christian terrorism carried out by
Salvi, Paul Hill, and now the lesbian bar bombers in Atlanta,
done by "US residents, targetting US-based targets, acting to
cause terror, in the name of their religion?
JS> RS> I put it to everyone else the question is 100% on the mark, and
JS> RS> you not answering it shows absurdity -- the absurdity of the
JS> RS> Christian faith.
JS> Everyone, eh? I would like to see the answers from the non-God-haters
JS> on the echo.
They would agree with me that the acts of people like Hill,
Salvi, and the Atlanta serial bombers were acts of "Christian
domestic terrorism".
Why do these people terrorise the US public in the name of Jesus, Jim?
Convert or Kill, it's the CHRISTIAN WAY!
JS> JS> RS> You were the one who proposed governmental screwing of "commies,
JS> JS> RS> treehuggers, bleeding-heart liberal, feminazis" and "illegals".
JS> JS> Show me where I said that.
JS> RS> You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
JS> Of course not. :) Why should I? Fred does that for me.
Go on... tell us about the "gooks" and how they are "rice-chowin'
sombees" or something to that effect! :)
Rod "...you racist homohater, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 02 Mar 97 15:50:48
EID:7cd0 22627e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193158
* On 23-02-97 at 13:12, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "wisdom" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> So you are saying the word of God is erred? The word of God in
JS> RS> your bible clearly says:
JS> RS> LEV 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with another
JS> RS> man, they have both done a disgusting thing,
JS> RS> and both shall be put to death. THEY ARE
JS> RS> RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN DEATH.
JS> RS> The bible clearly says Christians should kill gay people,
JS> JS> Where?
JS> RS> "...they both shall be put to death... They are responsible for
JS> RS> their own deaths." The Bible is an instructional book of laws
JS> RS> for Christians. The commandment is *to* Christians.
JS> Where does it say that?
LEVITICUS 20:13. I have even quoted it before. Are you
stupid, Jim? It's right there above.
God commands: "They (the men who have sexual relations with another
man) shall be put to death." And that they are both "responsible
for their own deaths."
You will note Leviticus is a book that contains Levitical law for
followers of God to use as a law book for the adjudicating and
operation of their Christian society. I note that the
theonomists of the United States like Rushdoony wish to see gay
people *exterminated* due to the fact God commands it in
Leviticus 20:13.
JS> RS> You should kill a gay person for Jesus, Jim.
JS> Why? Nowhere in the Gospels has He told me to...
Leviticus 20:13. Read it.
Rod "...or are you a salad bar Christian this week, Jim?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lies... 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:12:50
EID:d1b5 22628180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193682
* On 23-02-97 at 13:16, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Lies..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Answer? Answer the twisted perception of Rod Swift? Not required.
JS> RS> Perception? No. If God was such a truly unique, all-powerful,
JS> RS> being of CLARITY, there'd be only one version of him --
JS> There is only one version: Jesus Christ.
No. There are millions of different incantations of the Jesus
Christ/God deity construct. There are at least four different
Jesii in the bible and at least two distinctly different God
psyches in the bible!
JS> JS> (Mat 5:17 NIV) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law
or the
JS> JS> Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
JS> RS> Good. Have you fulfilled your obligation under LEV 20:13 to kill
JS> RS> a faggot for Jesus? If not, why not?
JS> Easy: he didn't command it.
He did command it. Please quote Leviticus 20:13 here, and
explain why you think it means what you think it does, as opposed
to what we know it does?
Let's look at the start of Leviticus 20, shall we? It shows how
to put someone to death for breaching any of the laws of
Leviticus 20...
(20:1) The Lord told Moses (20:2) to say to the people of
Israel "Any of you or any foreigner living among you who
gives any of his children to be used in the worship of
the god Molech shall be STONED TO DEATH BY THE WHOLE
COMMUNITY. (20:3) If anyone gives one of his children to
Molech and makes my sacred Tent unclean and disgraces my
holy name, I will turn against him and will no longer
consider him one of my people. (20:4) But if the
community ignores what he has done and does not PUT HIM
TO DEATH, (20:5) I myself will turn against the man and
his whole family and against all who join him in being
unfaithful to me and worshipping Molech. I will no
longer consider them my people.
Note, the bible says that Molech worshippers are to be STONED to
death which is described as being "PUT to death". It is obvious
what putting to death means in Leviticus 20 -- stoning.
Here's some reasons for stoning someone to death.
(20:9) The Lord gave the following regulations. Anyone
who curses his father or his mother SHALL BE PUT TO
DEATH; he is RESPONSIBLE for his OWN DEATH. (20:10) If
a man commits adultery with the wife of a fellow
Israelite, both he and the woman SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH.
(20:11) A man who has intercourse with one of his
father's wives disgraces his father, and both he and the
woman SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH. They are RESPONSIBLE for
their OWN DEATHS. (20:12) If a man has intercourse with
his daughter-in-law, they SHALL BOTH BE PUT TO DEATH.
They have committed incest and are RESPONSIBLE for their
OWN DEATHS. (20:13) If a man has sexual relations with
another man, they have both done a disgusting thing, and
both SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH. They are RESPONSIBLE for
their OWN DEATHS.
Now, Jimson, here's the important part. What happens to you if
you don't follow God's laws in Leviticus 20, and keep your town
pure??
(20:22) The Lord said, "Keep all my laws and commandments
so that you will not be rejected by the land of Canaan,
into which I am bring you. (20:23) Do not adopt the
customs of the people who live there; I am driving out
those PAGANS so that you can enter the land. They have
DISGUSTED me with their EVIL PRACTICES. (20:24) But I
have promised you this rich and fertile land as your
possession and I will give it to you... (20:26) You shall
be holy and belong only to me, because I am the Lord and
I am holy. I have set you apart from the other nations
so that you would belong to me alone.
Hence, Jimson, your reprobate behaviour in not upholding
Levitical laws in Leviticus 20? Rejection from the gift that
God gave and the relegation to the equivalence of the evil
practicing pagans :)
So I ask you again, Jimson, when was the last time you stoned a
faggot, or a bestialist, or an adulterer, or an incestuous
person?
Or, for that matter, burnt to death some heretics as proscribed
in Leviticus 20:14? Didn't you see that the passage immediately
after putting "faggots" to death indicates how to burn some evil
people?
Clearly, Leviticus 20 is commandments to God-followers to PUT TO
DEATH certain peoples. If you are so ignorant as to not be able
to read that, I pity you.
JS> RS> Or are you going to claim that law has been abolished, like you
JS> RS> did in the previous post?
JS> RS> Which is it, Jim? Abolition, or fulfilment. Quick. Change your
JS> RS> mind YET again. Flip-flop...
JS> Fulfillment.
So God is fulfilling Leviticus 20:22-26, and you are now no
longer one of his because you fail to carry out his specific and
clear instructions to stone gay people to death?
JS> JS> Mat. 5:17 gives you, Rod Swift, a period of temporary grace from
Lev 20
JS> JS> before Matt 13 takes place at His hand.
JS> RS> Bullshit, Jim.
JS> No, I am right on the bean with that little bit of wisdom.
You are wrong. Leviticus 20:13 is carried out (like the rest of
Leviticus 20) at the hands of his followers.
JS> RS> Your bible commands you to kill faggots. Do it.
JS> Why? Why do you propagate such desire?
That is of no concern to your clear defiance of your God's laws.
I also find it an excellent point to make, considering you claim
to be better than us non-Christians, but are in reality a blight
on the face of Christianity, and a mockery of it.
JS> JS> I am not manipulating His Word.
JS> RS> Yes you are. You are claiming God does *NOT* want you to kill
JS> RS> gays. The word of God is specific and CLEAR in Leviticus 20:13.
JS> RS> No exceptions. Kill gays.
JS> I don't see it that way.
I have just shown you that Leviticus 20 is a clear commandment of
God's followers *AS A COMMUNITY* to kill people specifically
stated by *STONING*.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lies... 2/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:12:52
EID:21b5 22628180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193684
>>> Continued from previous message
Your bible says it. I cannot see how you read differently. It
is plainly clear.
JS> JS> I said 'every word', did I not?
JS> RS> You do not believe in every word. You believe in every word that
JS> RS> is convenient. Read Leviticus 20:13, then tell me when you last
JS> RS> killed a queer for Christ.
JS> Christ never told me to do that.
God clearly commands you to kill by stoning a number of different
groups of people. You fail to. You are a hypocrite.
You are a FALSE CHRISTIAN. It is proven.
Rod "...I have won now, you can go" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:24:54
EID:c082 22628300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193956
* On 23-02-97 at 13:25, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Staal wants to know." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> JS> Why not? You believe every lie Satan puts in your mind...
JS> JS> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RS> ---------------------------------
JS> JS> RS> Wow! Look everyone. George Mooth's mental disease has spread.
JS> JS> RS> Now Jim is saying everyone and everything is Say-tan-hic! :)
JS> JS> Where did I say that?
JS> RS> It was underlined. You are stupid. You made a claim that Satan
JS> RS> controls my sentient functions, yet offer no proof.
JS> Stand to reason: Satan is the father of lies.
You have still offered no proof that:
1) Satan exists.
2) I am under control of said "Satan" construct.
3) That said "Satan" construct is, in fact, a
non-benevolent construct.
4) That you don't suffer from mental delusions that
create such evil deity-opponent constructs.
JS> RS> George Mooth did the same thing.
JS> Must be a man knowledgeable of scripture. Unlike yourself.
I doubt he's knowledgeable of copyright laws, given those
reposting of whole scriptural works by the "Our Daily Bread"
people... :) :)
I note that whenever Christians come up against something that is
more stronger than their God's existence, they claim the
presenter of such information is "under the control of Satan".
Is this a common cop-out for being unable to answer questions
about the tenability of your God-construct, Jim?
JS> RS> I'm always wondering why God doesn't put any truths in their mind
JS> RS> and make them win.
JS> He does and they do. (the Bible). It is just the 'sons of perdition'
JS> that have their eyes blinded and ears closed by Satan and his demons.
JS> (see Rod Swift)
Oh, so now Satan is my unholy ear muffs.
You *are* a moron, Jimson. Remember, I've never been
indoctrinated in your religious clap trap. The beating your god
gets from me and the spankin' I'm so willing to give comes out of
logic, and a deep desire to eradicate moronic superstition
wherever it may lay :)
JS> RS> You are at that point, Jim. Pray to Jesus all you like, but the
JS> RS> fact is that he doesn't provide to you what YOU CLAIM Satan
JS> RS> provides to me. Isn't Jesus benevolent enough?
JS> I am provided with everything I need to defeat Satan and his followers
JS> (Rod Swift).
Awww, that's it kids. Jimson's pulled the equivalent of
mentioning Hitler in a usenet newsgroup. He's called me
a Satanist :)
JS> Jesus won the war at Calvary, and I win the battles when I
JS> leave it up to him. You are defeated.
Only in your mind am I defeated. In reality, you are a coward
and wimp out of any challenge to prove your God. You pick on the
weak and the hopeless to become converts to your faith. If
anyone is "covering their eyes and sticking fingers in ears" it's
Christian fools like you.
You are deluded Jim. You are the loser. The price of your faked
eternal salvation has been your humanity.
Rod "...you're a moron, Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:24:56
EID:454f 22628300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193958
* On 23-02-97 at 13:25, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Staal wants to know." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> JS> Why not? You believe every lie Satan puts in your mind...
JS> JS> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RS> ---------------------------------
JS> JS> RS> Wow! Look everyone. George Mooth's mental disease has spread.
JS> JS> RS> Now Jim is saying everyone and everything is Say-tan-hic! :)
JS> JS> Where did I say that?
JS> RS> It was underlined. You are stupid. You made a claim that Satan
JS> RS> controls my sentient functions, yet offer no proof.
JS> Stand to reason: Satan is the father of lies.
You have still offered no proof that:
1) Satan exists.
2) I am under control of said "Satan" construct.
3) That said "Satan" construct is, in fact, a
non-benevolent construct.
4) That you don't suffer from mental delusions that
create such evil deity-opponent constructs.
JS> RS> George Mooth did the same thing.
JS> Must be a man knowledgeable of scripture. Unlike yourself.
I doubt he's knowledgeable of copyright laws, given those
reposting of whole scriptural works by the "Our Daily Bread"
people... :) :)
I note that whenever Christians come up against something that is
more stronger than their God's existence, they claim the
presenter of such information is "under the control of Satan".
Is this a common cop-out for being unable to answer questions
about the tenability of your God-construct, Jim?
JS> RS> I'm always wondering why God doesn't put any truths in their mind
JS> RS> and make them win.
JS> He does and they do. (the Bible). It is just the 'sons of perdition'
JS> that have their eyes blinded and ears closed by Satan and his demons.
JS> (see Rod Swift)
Oh, so now Satan is my unholy ear muffs.
You *are* a moron, Jimson. Remember, I've never been
indoctrinated in your religious clap trap. The beating your god
gets from me and the spankin' I'm so willing to give comes out of
logic, and a deep desire to eradicate moronic superstition
wherever it may lay :)
JS> RS> You are at that point, Jim. Pray to Jesus all you like, but the
JS> RS> fact is that he doesn't provide to you what YOU CLAIM Satan
JS> RS> provides to me. Isn't Jesus benevolent enough?
JS> I am provided with everything I need to defeat Satan and his followers
JS> (Rod Swift).
Awww, that's it kids. Jimson's pulled the equivalent of
mentioning Hitler in a usenet newsgroup. He's called me
a Satanist :)
JS> Jesus won the war at Calvary, and I win the battles when I
JS> leave it up to him. You are defeated.
Only in your mind am I defeated. In reality, you are a coward
and wimp out of any challenge to prove your God. You pick on the
weak and the hopeless to become converts to your faith. If
anyone is "covering their eyes and sticking fingers in ears" it's
Christian fools like you.
You are deluded Jim. You are the loser. The price of your faked
eternal salvation has been your humanity.
Rod "...you're a moron, Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shan'T Rec
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:30:58
EID:57e0 226283c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193ac2
* On 23-02-97 at 13:32, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shan'T Rec" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> [Jim quotes two biblical passages, proving again he has given up
JS> RS> all higher brain function in exchange for a decrepit, outdated,
JS> RS> and getting even-more irrelevant book. Praise Jesus, and Jim's
JS> RS> Free-Will(tm)]
JS> I don't believe in Free-Will [tm]
God predestined you to be an idiot *and* lose this battle? I
hope you ask him why he has made you into being such a fool.
JS> RS> Why don't YOU try answering the question, Jim, rather than your
JS> RS> irrelevant mythbook!
JS> I have all the answers in the Bible. i know nothing of this 'mythbook'
JS> youo speak of.
You're nearly babbling. So far, since I've joined in the
critiques of your crap, Jimson, you've gone from a moderated
influence, to one that is gripping onto the bible harder and
harder and screaming out more and more shrill rhetoric. You're
actually giving up more higher brain function to your bible.
This is, however, not a-typical of nuts who can't handle their
God being stripped of their identity. We love you, but hate
your sins, Jimson.
You will eventually get to the point of screaming irrelevant
stuff all over the echo, and then you will self-implode and take
a powder.
At that point, Jimson, you are most susceptible to being saved.
I hope you take the opportunity to be saved of your mental
illness.
Rod "...We love you, but hate your sins, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Bathroom Staal disease
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:37:00
EID:dbc3 226284a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193c2c
* On 23-02-97 at 13:33, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Bathroom Staal disease" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> But where in your bible does it say that I didn't write
JS> RS> infidelity?
JS> Your quote above says you wrote 'fidelity'. I don't need the bible for
JS> that.
But you said all your answers were in the bible. Come come, now,
Jimson, don't stop using it for all those answers. Quick, what's
1/((34*34*34) + sqrt(28))?
JS> RS> I refuse to deal with someone who is only sentient part of the
JS> RS> time, and only a bibliolatrous fool at others. :) It's because
JS> RS> I love you that I make you out to look like a moron! :)
JS> You do not have the capacity to do that.
Yes I do. But I do wish you'd either choose sentience, or
bibliolatry. It'd make it so much easier. We'd not have to deal
with a split-personalitied Jimson.
JS> JS> Absolutely. I haven't been guilty of infedility for
----------
JS> JS> quite some time, so
JS> JS> she is quite secure in the fact of my fidelity.
--------
JS> RS> Most people I know think that infidelity once means infidelity
JS> RS> again.
JS> Most the people you know have twisted thinking like you, I am sure...
Most of the people I know can spell fidelity, rather than spell
it "infedelity" and "fidelity" in the same damn sentence, Mister
Erudite! :) See above underlining :)
JS> If you can be swayed once, you can be swayed again.
You can be swayed by reality... Just dispense with Jeeeezus, and
live a real life, Jimson!
JS> RS> Then again, why would you want to leave your butch she-male
JS> RS> "Wilbur"? *guffaw!* :)
JS> Right! She has the greatest hooters _and_ female genitalia a man would
JS> want. :)
Or a man would have...
Rod "...and it's so nice that she probably wants you to be well
and free of your combined Jesus-infestation" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:38:02
EID:33f6 226284c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193c6a
* On 23-02-97 at 13:36, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Ahh...spoken as one who has not felt/experienced the touch of God.
JS> RS> Does that involve the priest buttfucking someone, Jim, to make
JS> RS> them *EXPERIENCE* the *TOUCH* of God??
JS> JS> I _have_ met Jesus in a spiritual sense and He lives within me via
His
JS> JS> Holy Spirit.
JS> RS> Ah, your priest never used a condom. That explains it.
JS> My only priest is jesus Christ.
So Jesus fucks you up the ass without a condom and his Holy Sperm
lives within you. No wonder you're so resistive to wanting to
leave your gay loverboy deity construct! :)
I bet he loves you just like his disciple in John :)
Rod "...braise Jesus, 350F, add vegetables. Yummy!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Anti-women, anti-gay -- born again bigot, go away!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:41:04
EID:f601 22628520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193d20
* On 23-02-97 at 13:37, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Perjorative is a noun.
JS> KD> Not according to Websters [which spells it without
JS> KD> any r's, BTW] It is defined FIRST as an adjective.
JS> JS> I'll agree with your account of the spelling (I just
JS> JS> copied it from his post
JS> RS> That's strange. I was waiting for the spelling correction, after
JS> RS> your claims of an English "major" :) :)
JS> You spelled it that way. I just copied your spelling because of your
JS> 'better educated [tm]' status...
Yeahright. Nice cop out. So how does that explain you spelling
"fidelity" correctly yet spelling "infidelity" incorrectly in
yet another display of your erudite nature...? :)
JS> JS> Now lessee (where are those glasses...hmmm...oh well, here is other
JS> JS> pair) my New Lexicon Webster's Dictionary shows it both ways, with
the
JS> JS> adj. form first as well (they list in alphabetical order, after
all) so
JS> JS> he wins one. (stinkeeng chair is crooked now...)
JS> RS> :) :) Of course, pejorative is both a noun and a verb :) I
JS> RS> suppose that is because I have an English major from a recognised
JS> RS> university. Oh, and I have a degree to prove it :)
JS> Prove it. Why then are you still a little giggly college boy from down
JS> under?
I still note that you failed to pick up the fact I first claimed
it were a noun and and adjective, then said a noun and a *verb* :)
My oh my, you are a tosser. :)
Oh, and when I say I'm an English major, I am. I have
successfully completed a higher education degree with a major
stream inside the faculty of English.
Rod "...hence, I'm no giggly college boy" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: A "Swiftie"!
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:42:06
EID:1f46 22628540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193d5e
* On 23-02-97 at 13:39, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "A "Swiftie"!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> BTW, Laurie, can you imagine the impudence of Rod Swift
JS> JS> masquerading as you and then directing me to a web site
JS> JS> showing him smooching on his boyfriend!?
JS> LA> Thanks for letting me know.
JS> JS> No prob. We have to look out for each other, you know. :)
JS> RS> Of course, the false witness about "smooching boyfriend" is yet
JS> RS> to be eradicated. Why are you lying, Jimbozo?
JS> It was you who gave me the URL...
And what did this URL show? You claimed that the pictures showed
"smooching on his boyfriend". None of the pictures I gave you
showed that.
Rod "...in fact, they were all quite booooring" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:46:08
EID:b6ab 226285c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193e50
* On 23-02-97 at 13:40, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cook" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> DH> I personally don't accept claims that either home schooling or
JS> DH> parochial schooling comes even close to matching the standards
JS> DH> of the pathetic public systems. If you have any evidence to the
JS> DH> contrary, I'll be happy to hear it.
JS> JS> Home schooling is a scourge and a copout and the results, IMHO,
are
JS> JS> social and intellectual dwarfs.
JS> RS> You failed to preface your comment, Jim, with:
JS> RS> "Speaking from experience..."
JS> I attended private Christian schools (quite popular in the West Michigan
JS> area) for all of my educative years.
Still, your sub-standard education is showing :)
Rod "...now be honest Jimson. It's ok to share your past" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: witch burnings
|Date: 02 Mar 97 16:53:10
EID:88f3 226286a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33193ff6
* On 24-02-97 at 14:58, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "witch burnings" in echo Holysmoke:
LB> JB> What I worry about is the day someone calls him at work and asks
if
LB> JB> someone he mentioned in his journal is 'so-and-so'. I don't trust
him
LB> JB> to say no or even 'why do you want to know?'. I think he'd cheerfully
LB> JB> give names and locations to anyone who said 'I'm a cousin and thought
LB> JB> I recognized that story. Sure would like to get hold of ...'
LB> RS> Yes, sad, isn't it :( :(
LB> RS> Journalists have ethics to cover such things. Private journals
LB> RS> writers tend not to have such ethics :(
LB> That would be one of the weaknesses of making what should be a private
LB> journal public. The other is that with a few RARE exception, private
LB> journals are boring to all but the person writing them.
It is most definitely the case. I have read the journal
concerned, and I think the most scintillating highlight so far
was choosing the topping on the Tombstone pizza one night.
*yawn*... Nothing against Al, but he does have a pretty boring life.
LB> Most of those of who do make a habit of journaling count highly
LB> on the fact that it is a place to put our thoughts where NO ONE
LB> will read them, and that makes a big difference in what is said there.
Ah, that's it. I worked it out. Al's doing his journal so that
your thoughts, Linda, can be read by EVERY ONE :)
LB> I've only seen two online journals (not counting Walter Miller's...
LB> hehe) that were compelling enough to be able to walk the line
LB> between public interest and a sincere look into the person's
LB> private world.
I know of a long-running type of journal -- that of
correspondence -- that is interesting to read because it's all
about a party or something, and the whole family divides because
one of the people coming is gay. And his partner was *not
invited*. It's a very sad tale. It also shows religious bigotry
in the rawest -- from one family member to another by letter.
I'd like to share the URL. It's in my UCC bookmarks. It's a
quite sad tale. Both of the gay people are HIV positive.
LB> In both cases, what makes them compelling is that the person
LB> writing them are exceptional people going through extraordinary
LB> circumstances. The average person's life is just not interesting
LB> enough on a daily basis to pull that off.
Agreed. The only interesting portals from cyberspace into the
lives of people are for the extraordinariness of the cases.
Rod "...I'll share the URL with you online soon" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:01:12
EID:bb28 22628820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331941d8
* On 25-02-97 at 09:42, DAVID RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> -=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
DR> >>KY> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem
DR> >>KY> with it.
DR> ROTFL!
Yes, I did too. :) :)
DR> >>KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
DR> Computers are not "biblical" either. What an abomination!
Yes, Ken should give them up immediately and move to a messaging
system using stone tablets :)
DR> >DR> Jesus was homosexual. See: JOH 13:23 JOH 19:26 JOH 20:2
DR> >DR> JOH 21:7 JOH 21:20
DR> RS> Shit yeah! Him sitting next to his lover at the last
DR> RS> supper, telling his mother and his lover to live together
DR> RS> as mother and son (obviously to console their combined
DR> RS> pain of love lost), a woman who obviously knew about
DR> RS> Jesus's gay lover telling him about Jesus's body not
DR> RS> being in the tomb, they go and do a bit of fishin' and
DR> RS> see his homolover, and then a revelation by Jesus
DR> RS> that he wants his queer love to live for a long time :)
DR> Er, ah, I've never seen it put quite that way before, but
DR> you are right. When read with the Holy Spirit as ones'
DR> guide (as above), Jesus was a flaming militant homosexual.
He was an JACKED-UP member all right -- Judean Alliance of
Christian Kings Emitting Desires to Unleash Power :)
I hear it was a long-lost relative of ACT-UP :)
:) It was a bit of rough-'n'-ready yet valid interpretation. I
suppose I have the unique perspective in noting that it's exactly
what most gay people would ask their partner and their parents'
before dying.
Rod "...but it holds. Now we gotta watch Kenny and Jimbo spin!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The best prophet of the future is the past
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan.Deboer@Walden.Gryn.O
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:02:14
EID:2ba5 22628840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33194216
* On 12-02-97 at 12:35, JAN.DEBOER@WALDEN.GRYN.ORG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "God exacts justice!!!" in echo Holysmoke:
JA> On 09 Feb 97 01:38:26 Rod Swift wrote to All...
JA> RS> MELBOURNE, Jan 27 (Reuter) - Lightning killed an Australian
JA> RS> couple on Monday as their two young sons looked on during a
JA> RS> picnic in the southern city of Geelong, police said.
JA> Rod, you are just not looking at this from the correct christian
JA> perspective.
JA> I'm sure Al Schroeder can tell you that the parents were 'saved'.
Of course they were :)
JA> And christians everywhere will be cluck-clucking that it's only through
JA> the miraculous intervention of god that the two young sons weren't
JA> killed as well!
Praise Jesus that the parents' genetic heritage will live on to
go forth and multiply! *cluck cluck*!
JA> So, you see, god saved everyone. Praise Jeezus!
Indeedy! :)
Rod "...if only God would do away with my parents :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:05:16
EID:c7cc 226288a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331942cc
* On 25-02-97 at 05:36, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the promise keepers" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> RS> So, where does the other $100 million of their $125 million
MB> RS> (1996 figures) go each year? Yes, The PromiseKeepers should
MB> RS> be renamed the "ProfitKeepers" :)
MB> RS> Rod "...either way, the amount they make is more than $50 on
MB> RS> each $65 ticket sold at an event" Swift :)
MB> You haven't yet gotten around to the travel costs, advertising,
MB> cost of renting the stadium, etc. While I don't disagree that they
MB> make a bundle, I doubt if it's quite the bundle you're
MB> envisioning.
Actually, rental cost on the stadiums were taken into account. :)
Travel costs for the few speakers wouldn't amount to more than
$1000 per participant per conference, and advertising is done
through their glossy magazine "New Life", which they send to all
ProfitKeepers members, and to churches.
You are right that there was a conservative estimate on just the
running of the conferences and the salaries of their fulltime
staff. However, they are rolling in the money. There is no
doubt about it.
Jimson, of course, claimed they weren't making huge profits (tens
of millions of dollars) each year :)
Rod "...so, I suppose at the end of all this, we can show that
their activities aren't really solely for the spreading of the
word of the Lord, but also the collection of the money for the
leaders" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:13:22
EID:9beb 226289a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331944b2
* On 24-02-97 at 13:07, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "God exacts justice!!!" in echo A_Theist:
JB> On 20 Feb 97, Rod Swift wrote:
JB> JB> RS> MELBOURNE, Jan 27 (Reuter) - Lightning killed an Australian
JB> .....
JB> JB> RS> The family and friends had taken shelter in a metal-roofed
JB> JB> !! Metal-roofed rotunda??!
JB> JB> Uh, Rod, just how does human stupidity translate into an action
of God?
JB> RS> But God made the lightning strike. God could have also STOPPED
JB> RS> the lightning strike. Or stopped their deaths.
JB> You know that from what? You know that God interferes with His Own
laws
JB> of physics? From what do you know that?
Oh, is this the Quantum Bait Shop? I'm sorry, I wanted the local
branch of the Bank of America.
JB> RS> And before you say "God probably wanted them dead, then", I put
JB> RS> it to you that your God is very very torturing and cruel.
JB> Ass-u-me yourself away from assuming anything about "my" God, please,
JB> and try not to anticipate what "I" am going to say.
JB> "My" God makes scientific sense, and doesn't alter the Laws of Physics
JB> (except within the limits of quantum probability) to suit people stupid
JB> enough to run under a metal roof in a thunderstorm.
Oh, that's why he turns people into pillars of salt. That
explains it.
JB> If you want to argue against "God" or gods, please find out what the
JB> "God" or gods actually are beforehand. Arguing against a limited,
JB> provincial, Judeo-Christian thought-construct simply because it's easy
JB> to do, makes little argumentative headway with people who've got a
JB> better idea of what the "God" or gods in question might be instead.
I'm laughing. Bait bait bait.
Rod "...come back when you have a real God of a bible to show us,
rather than a salad-bar one, Brawley" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Appleton denies holocaus
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:37:30
EID:220a 22628ca0
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33194a5a
This message was from LAURIE APPLETON to DEREK MCLARNEN,
originally in conference C_Vs_E
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
Hi Derek,
(Re: yours of 20-Feb-1997, "God exacts justice!!!")
(re your reply to Rod Swift)
DM> -=> On 09 Feb 97, Rod Swift was discussing God exacts justice!!!
DM> The greatest failure of all of the world's theistic
DM> religions is their failure to explain the existence of evil
DM> - both "accidental" evil (like the story above) and
DM> "deliberate" evil (like the Holocaust) - in a universe
DM> constructed and managed by a all-powerful, infinitely
DM> loving God.
As for the evil "HOLOCAUST", you might be just one of the
millions who has just accepted it like the following writer
did himself.
"In common with virtually all Americans who have had
their opinions formed since the end of World War II I had,
until not very long ago, assumed that Germany had given
the world a particularly murderous outburst during World
War II. This view has ruled Western opinion since 1945
and earlier, and I was no exception in accepting the
essentials of it."
[. . . .]
"Still possessing my lingering doubts I sat down, early
in 1972, and started to read some of the "holocaust"
literature itself rather more systematically than I had
previously, in order to see just what claims were made in this
connection and on what evidence."
[. . . . ]
"I Not only became convinced that the legend of several
million gassed Jews must be a hoax, but I derived what
turned out to be a fairly reliable "feel" for the remarkable
cabalistic mentality that had given the lie its specific
form."
("The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", by A. R. Butz, 2nd.
ed. 1977)
Laurie
___ Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
* OLX 2.1 TD * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far From!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Creation
|Date: 02 Mar 97 17:42:36
EID:edc4 22628d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33194b8c
* On 19-02-97 at 22:18, BRETT KNUCHEL wrote to JAY LOVELESS,
on the topic of "Creation" in echo C_Vs_E:
BK> Wake Up Jay!!! Belief in Evolution is rational!!! I think not.
Now, all we have to do is put it through the Appleton
Quote-A-Matic and come out with...
"Wake Up Jay! Belief in Evolution is rational!!!"
-- Brett Knuchel, Creation Versus Evolution
Echo, Fido Net Messaging System,
19 February 1997, 22:18.
In my defense of this, I claim (as Laurie does) that I have
quoted Brett's words correctly...
Rod "...you can all start ROTFLing now" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Can I put my Sharp in your mainframe on the desktop?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:04:44
EID:ff08 22629080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331950bc
* On 23-02-97 at 14:06, JIM STAAL wrote to SUE ALEXANDER,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Never had a chick nor boinked one.
JS> JS> He was never married. Why would one who never sinned have sex
JS> JS> outside of marriage?
JS> SA> Why was he never married, Jim? It was expected by culture
that
JS> SA> everyone should be married by a certain age, which he had long
since
JS> SA> passed.
JS> I could provide the scripture for you, Sue, but this computer doesn't
JS> have my online bible on it, but, it wasn't necessary that He have
JS> offspring...
This is the equivalent of the "MY HARD DRIVE CRASHED" cop out
we're so used to...
Rod "...but of course" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * At least I never misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt - Q
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:07:46
EID:f601 226290e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33195172
* On 23-02-97 at 12:22, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (14 Feb 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> -> On 12 Feb 97 08:22:12, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
JS> JS> RS> In the fact it is perjorative.
JS> JS> Perjorative is a noun.
JS> RS> You so sure, Mr Erudite?
JS> JS> Yes.
JS> DC> In the first place, you both spelled it wrong. In the second
JS> DC> place, you, the "Erudite One", got it wrong:
JS> DC> pe.jo.ra.tive
JS> DC> adjective
JS> DC> : tending to make something seem less valuable
JS> DC> or worthwhile than it is
JS> In the first place, I didn't spell it that way. Mr. Swift did. And in
JS> the second place, my dictionary show it both ways.
Spelled both ways? Or both a noun and an adjective?
JS> DC> You just lost your buck private membership "English Major".
JS> And you lost your soul.
Awww. Someone uses their dictionary against you, Jimson, and you
damn them to eternal torment.
I wish I could have a God like that to abuse people with. By
gosh, I bet he's so proud of you.
BTW, Killed a Kweer for Jesus yet, Jim?
Rod "...thought not... which describes both the answer to my question,
and the theoretical pondering into your brain activity" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:08:48
EID:c45c 22629100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331951b0
* On 23-02-97 at 12:24, JIM STAAL wrote to ROGER HUNTER,
on the topic of "OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> One of the few things I have agreed with Jesse on. The Bible is
quite
JS> JS> clear on the subject. A deed is judged 'good' not merely by content,
JS> JS> but rather, by motivation.
JS> RH> Oh, good. So I can kill you so you can get to Heaven quicker and
JS> RH> that will be judged "good".
JS> Hardly. Whatever your motivation might be, murder is not a good deed.
It's good if you're killing a faggot, like Leviticus 20:13 commands.
JS> RH> What was your address again?
JS> Oh, you wish to send a donation?
JS> Jim Staal Ministries
JS> P.O. Box 171
JS> Grandville, MI 49468-0171
JS> As I have broken my leg on the ice on Valentines Day, I could use all
JS> the $$$ help I can get. A high energy music ministry cannot be effected
JS> from a wheel chair or crutches.
"High energy music ministry"? Why does this give me the
impression of aerobics to hymns?
Rod "...boooring!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:09:50
EID:e8c6 22629120
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331951ee
* On 25-02-97 at 08:17, SHELBY SHERMAN wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "A toast to dracula" in echo Holysmoke:
SS> KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side.
SS> KY> You, on the other hand, must be a very weak and insecure person.
SS> KY> Otherwise, you would not feel the need to attack soemthing you
know
SS> KY> nothing about.
SS> KY> You're sinless? You really need to do something about ego, if
you
SS> KY> think you are perfect.
SS> He didn't say that he was perfect, nitwit, he said that he is sinless,
SS> as am I. Sin is a transgression against a religious law. If an
SS> individual doesn't subscribe to a religious cult, the individual doesn't
SS> sin.
Correct! Now, did you want to take "Religious Fallacies" for
$800? :) :)
Rod "...*hugsz* Thanks for explaining it to dickwad Ken" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:10:52
EID:7af2 22629140
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319522c
* On 25-02-97 at 08:21, SHELBY SHERMAN wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Hypocritical people" in echo Holysmoke:
SS> KY> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God
must
SS> KY> be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the
idea
SS> KY> that God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
SS> So, according to your "logic", if a small piece of ice is found near
SS> the south pole, there must be a refrigerator with an ice-maker nearby.
SS> Right?
QUOTE FILE THIS BABY! FAQ IT!
Rod "...nice example, Shelby" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:10:54
EID:a1ce 22629140
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319522e
* On 25-02-97 at 08:21, SHELBY SHERMAN wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Hypocritical people" in echo Holysmoke:
SS> KY> I don't like being so repetitive, but we are here, therefore God
must
SS> KY> be here as well. As illogical as creationism may be to you, the
idea
SS> KY> that God created us, is the most logical explanation we have.
SS> So, according to your "logic", if a small piece of ice is found near
SS> the south pole, there must be a refrigerator with an ice-maker nearby.
SS> Right?
QUOTE FILE THIS BABY! FAQ IT!
Rod "...nice example, Shelby" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:12:56
EID:a85e 22629180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331952a8
* On 25-02-97 at 13:19, DAVID WORRELL wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples 1/" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 22 Feb 97 01:25, Ken Young wrote to Rod Swift:
DW> RS>> Remember Colorado Amendment 2?
DW> KY> AH, but shouldn't something become law, if that is what the majority
DW> KY> of the public truly wants?
DW> Would you support making rape legal, if that was what the
DW> majority of the public wanted?
The majority of people in the US do not believe that interracial
marriage should be legal, believe it or not.
DW> Here's a hint, dipshit. This is not a pure democracy - it
DW> is a Republic. Do you know the difference?
No, he doesn't understand that there are three arms of government
-- and that the judiciary is one of them. Nor does he understand
the role of the judiciary in a constitutional republic with a
representative democracy government.
Rod "... maybe he should take American Politics 101 at skewl" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves? Not on my salary he doesn't.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:15:58
EID:6384 226291e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319535e
* On 24-02-97 at 23:43, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> KY> Science? Hmm.. You must have a weird definition of it..
DH> KY> And all that percentage would prove if accurate, would be how few
gays
DH> KY> there are.
DH> The _average_ estimate of the gay population is one in 10, Ken.
This is a poor estimate. The estimate of the number of
exclusively gay people is 4 in 100 -- 4%
The estimate of the number of bisexual people is about another
12/100 -- or another 12%
DH> That's one gay out of every ten people. Next time you're in
DH> church why don't you cast a slow gaze over the congregation
DH> and ask yourself which ones are the gays?
He should be looking for about 16 people in every 100. :) Some
of them may look straight or even be married.
DH> Don't forget the females. And don't discount the married
DH> folks; there are a LOT of gay people having torrid affairs
DH> with married men or women.
Exactly! :)
Rod "... exclusive heterosexuals only rank at about 80% of the
population" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Arachnohomophobia: Fear of gay spiders
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:17:00
EID:aae4 22629220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3319539c
* On 24-02-97 at 17:57, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY>Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you
KS> KY>are gay, you cannot be
KS> KY>saved.
KS> Well, now, that kinda makes a real dilemma, doesn't it? How about this:
KS> YOU go to hell since you're the one who believes in it.
Ayup-yup-yup. That's what he deserves, Karl :)
KS> KY>Now, the difference is simply the difference between the person and
KS> KY>one's actions. Just because I am against what a person does, does
KS> KY>not mean I am against that person.
KS> Of course it does, you hypocritical fucking moron.
Of course, the hypocrite fails to realise this. He'll now accuse
us of Christian bashing. We can take solace in the fact we
attacked his Christianity, not him.
Rod "...although his identity of being Christian means it is an
attack on him. *shhh*!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:19:02
EID:d03a 22629260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33195416
* On 25-02-97 at 10:15, DAVID RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better.
DR> KY> They were still around, but who needs to advertise
DR> KY> their sexual orientation?
DR> Yeah, that's right! How =DARE= someone express love and
DR> affection in public?! The unabashed NERVE of them! They
DR> ought to make a law against holding hands and kissing in
DR> public, just like in the Good Ole Days! Those goddamned
DR> affectionate people! Who the bloody hell do they think
DR> they are, anyhow, showing affection where other people
DR> can actually see them?!?!?!?
Ken is so much fun when he does his moral-making, isn't he :)
To think he has the authority to mandate such a ban :) :)
Oh, that's right, he'll get his network of conservative
Christians to pass the laws required to enslave gays even *more*
to the whims of the heterosexual majority :)
Rod "...all because he can't allow them equality :)" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:20:04
EID:c8ae 22629280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33195454
* On 25-02-97 at 14:02, DAVID WORRELL wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "In the news" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> SQ> Heard about the "Army of God" taking responsibility for the bombing
DW> SQ> of an abortion clinic and a gay bar.
DW> Yep. I was just talking about this with a friend in Atlanta.
DW> SQ> Someone, hunt these motherfuckers down and try them for "war crimes."
DW> Fuck a trial. Just take 'em out in an open field, strap one of their
DW> bombs to them, and set the fucker off. My tax dollars can be put to
DW> better use - there's no need for a trial for terrorists.
DW> Only humans have the right to a trial by their peers.
Please, can the partners of all the lesbians injured in the
Atlanta bombing press the button to detonate it?
Rod "...Hey, this biblical eye-for-an-eye thing could really
work" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Could crop circles be the work of a cereal killer?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:26:06
EID:4c15 22629340
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331955be
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
* On 06-02-97 at 18:19, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> So you support domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So the Oklahoma Bombing was not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Do you know the meaning of the words "domestic Christian
JS> RS> terrorism"? Here's a pointer. Domestic means "carried out
JS> RS> inside the US-borders by people who reside in the US". Christian
JS> RS> means "people who claim to ascribe to the Christian faith and/or
JS> RS> pronounce that they have performed an act for the Christian faith
JS> RS> or deity-construct". Terrorism can be defined as "an act of
JS> RS> terrorising or systematic use of violence and intimidation to
JS> RS> achieve some goal or political change by means of terror".
JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
in Jesu.., uh, err, um... in Darwin, who did the bomb...ummm...
geological dynamism to make everyone feel comfortable and safe,
and all kindler and gentler.
There. All the basis of fact, as you percieve. :)
JS> JS> RS> Hill isn't yet... Such a shame. Do you support domestic
JS> JS> RS> Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So abortion clinic murders is not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Were John Salvi and Paul Hill "US residents, targetting US-based
JS> RS> targets, acting to cause terror, in the name of their religion?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. (I'm getting used to it, though)
Wahhh. The question's too hard to answer! I'm going to claim it
is absurd.
I put it to everyone else the question is 100% on the mark, and
you not answering it shows absurdity -- the absurdity of the
Christian faith.
JS> RS> Convert or Kill, it's not only Christianity's guiding principle,
JS> RS> but it's also CHRISTIAN LAW of the BIBLE!
JS> JS> Show me where Christ commanded this?
JS> RS> Christ commanding it <> It being God's word.
JS> RS> You find it in your bible, you bible parrot! :)
JS> You made the statement. You provide the evidence from scripture where
JS> Christ said to do such things.
No. You do it. Why should I have to do all the work for someone
who claims to know the bible. :) Anyway, your request is
'absurd' *sneer*.
JS> JS> Screw commies, treehuggers, bleeding heart
JS> JS> liberal, feminazis and send
JS> JS> the illegals back where they came from.
JS> JS> RS> Ah. So you believe in the principle of governmental-mandated
JS> JS> RS> inequality and division among US citizens?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> You were the one who proposed governmental screwing of "commies,
JS> RS> treehuggers, bleeding-heart liberal, feminazis" and "illegals".
JS> Show me where I said that.
You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
Rod "...then again, you probably don't read them before posting,
so why bother after?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:26:08
EID:093a 22629340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331955c0
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
This message was from ROD SWIFT to JIM STAAL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
* On 06-02-97 at 18:19, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> So you support domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So the Oklahoma Bombing was not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Do you know the meaning of the words "domestic Christian
JS> RS> terrorism"? Here's a pointer. Domestic means "carried out
JS> RS> inside the US-borders by people who reside in the US". Christian
JS> RS> means "people who claim to ascribe to the Christian faith and/or
JS> RS> pronounce that they have performed an act for the Christian faith
JS> RS> or deity-construct". Terrorism can be defined as "an act of
JS> RS> terrorising or systematic use of violence and intimidation to
JS> RS> achieve some goal or political change by means of terror".
JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
in Jesu.., uh, err, um... in Darwin, who did the bomb...ummm...
geological dynamism to make everyone feel comfortable and safe,
and all kindler and gentler.
There. All the basis of fact, as you percieve. :)
JS> JS> RS> Hill isn't yet... Such a shame. Do you support domestic
JS> JS> RS> Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So abortion clinic murders is not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Were John Salvi and Paul Hill "US residents, targetting US-based
JS> RS> targets, acting to cause terror, in the name of their religion?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. (I'm getting used to it, though)
Wahhh. The question's too hard to answer! I'm going to claim it
is absurd.
I put it to everyone else the question is 100% on the mark, and
you not answering it shows absurdity -- the absurdity of the
Christian faith.
JS> RS> Convert or Kill, it's not only Christianity's guiding principle,
JS> RS> but it's also CHRISTIAN LAW of the BIBLE!
JS> JS> Show me where Christ commanded this?
JS> RS> Christ commanding it <> It being God's word.
JS> RS> You find it in your bible, you bible parrot! :)
JS> You made the statement. You provide the evidence from scripture where
JS> Christ said to do such things.
No. You do it. Why should I have to do all the work for someone
who claims to know the bible. :) Anyway, your request is
'absurd' *sneer*.
JS> JS> Screw commies, treehuggers, bleeding heart
JS> JS> liberal, feminazis and send
JS> JS> the illegals back where they came from.
JS> JS> RS> Ah. So you believe in the principle of governmental-mandated
JS> JS> RS> inequality and division among US citizens?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> You were the one who proposed governmental screwing of "commies,
JS> RS> treehuggers, bleeding-heart liberal, feminazis" and "illegals".
JS> Show me where I said that.
You don't archive your posts, do you? :)
Rod "...then again, you probably don't read them before posting,
so why bother after?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
___ Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: helpless moron from oz
|Date: 02 Mar 97 18:30:10
EID:1041 226293c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331956b2
* On 25-02-97 at 13:54, DAVID WORRELL wrote to CHRISTOPHER HUGHES,
on the topic of "helpless moron from oz" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 23 Feb 97 13:50, Christopher Hughes wrote to David Worrell:
DW> CH> No, thankfully he isn't. My fiance's from Australia, and I've been
DW> CH> down there, lived there for six months. Lovely country. Their version
DW> CH> of Pat Robertson gets laughed at. *grin*
DW> Pat gets laughed at here, too. That still doesn't mean the
DW> country ain't fucked all to hell and back.
No no no. You don't understand, David. We make fun OF the
religious fools out here. No one believes in them. In fact,
Australia is post-Christian.
Rod "...it's a good thing too" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 02 Mar 97 19:03:12
EID:c45c 22629860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33195e70
* On 23-02-97 at 14:27, JIM STAAL wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JH> So what's gonna happen when Jesus comes back? You and your
JS> JH> brethren going to kill him again?
JS> I am neither jewish or roman...
But you will kill him because Jesus won't turn out to be anything
like you expected him.
Rod "...that's probably what'll happen, especially since Jesus
was documented as being gay" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 371/42 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 2401/0
SEEN-BY: 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 02 Mar 97 19:08:14
EID:5377 22629900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33195f9e
* On 24-02-97 at 17:57, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Mormonism IS Christianit" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY> RS> Nothing about vigilante militia though :)
KS> KY>There is nothing that says it is for the state govts. to set up.
KS> KY>And what vigilante militias are out there? If they were as violent
and
KS> KY>irrational as some claim, there would be a lot more violence then
there i
KS> KY>But rather, most militias generally only would use
KS> KY>violence as a last resort.
KS> The news, as I type is reporting on a double-bombing in Atlanta with
KS> credit claimed by the 'Army of God'.
KS> Is that the kind of non-violence you're referring to?
KS> We're gonna get those bastards.
You mean this story? And yes, they're threatening more attacks,
and have set up an elaborate code system (like the IRAs) to claim
responsibility.
"Army of God" threatens``total war'' against the federal government and
promises further attacks