God Damned Fundies!
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 28 Feb 97 16:42:52
EID:87b8 225c8540
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 33182352
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TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Jim Staal said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Marilyn Burge <=-
JS> OK. But the head is destroyed _after_ it has gone through the birth
JS> canal in these procedures. That last 3 inches before reaching air is
JS> beyond the birth canal.
Looks like you need an anatomy book, too.
JS> One thing for sure, woman who gave testimony on this was not an
JS> hysterical fundy.
Neither were several of the Catholic women who testified before congress
on the fact that they would not be here without the procedure...which had
been done with the blessing of their church.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: RIC CARTER
|Sub: BIBLE QUOTES
|Date: 28 Feb 97 16:50:42
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-=> RIC CARTER said, in a huffy tone of voice, to BRYSON HUGHES <=-
RC> they [women] don't eat the right "meat". See, it's all about sex
RC> and power and control. Bother.
But wasn't it Jesus who was supposed to have said 'it isn't what goes
into a man's mouth that makes him unclean, but what comes out of it' ?
(Another clue to JC being gay?)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 01 Mar 97 06:53:48
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-=> David Worrell said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Terry Liberty-Parker
<=-
TP> Don't play God with human cloning,
DW> It's much more fun to play Patton with TANKS.
And why not do human cloning? It would be absolutely fascinating to have
a clone of myself and see what I could have become without all the shit
that fucked me over the first time.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Fetal Ralph
|Date: 01 Mar 97 06:58:18
EID:135f 22613740
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-=> Don Martin said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> Gentle reminder: It's not really safe to fuck with the Harpies.
DM> Er, what about _consenting_ harpies?
The WORST kind.
... Experiencing tagline difficulties, please stand by.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 01 Mar 97 07:18:22
EID:7335 22613a40
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-=> Mark O'Neill said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
MO> Thankyou. Have you received my alignment thingy as yet? If not I'll
MO> post it here.
You'll have to ask Kat. I just happened to have her URL in front of
me at the time you asked the question.
Now, if you want to send ME a picture, I'll be sure you get on the
'Holysmokers as *I* see them' page.
jbandsma@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Jbandsma
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: bozos, bozos everywhere
|Date: 01 Mar 97 07:26:42
EID:307e 22613b40
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-=> Steve Quarrella said, in a huffy tone of voice, to David Worrell <=-
DW> let go of them. P&G will probably *always* be plagued by this shit.
SQ> Didn't they sue someone last year over this shit?
Yeah, several of the higher ups from AMWAY.
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Laddies Present
|Date: 01 Mar 97 16:53:42
EID:dbbf 226186a0
MSGID: 1:229/622 33185f16
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 26 Feb 97 11:40:00 Lynda Bustilloz wrote to DAVID RAGLAND...
LB> Richard and David were killing time yakking about Alternative A:
RS> Oh, and by the way, WATCH YOUR FUCKING MOUTH! There are
RS> ladies present.
DR> With the exception of Laurie, who are you referring to?
LB> Yea, Laurie's a REAL lady....
Hey, don't forget me! [:-)'
Ragland seems to suffer from gender confuzion....must be all those years
of prison sex, OR, maybe he saw his wife nude once?
Regards,
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Arrogant trash
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:21:28
EID:77a5 225b8aa0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3318261b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 26 Feb 97 11:22:00 Lynda Bustilloz wrote to DAN CEPPA...
LB> Dan and David were killing time yakking about ...:
LB>
DC>second place, she had you, an abortion that should have died,
DC>Captain.
DR> Actually, I am a Major. Fur real, dude. BTW, come to Louisiana and
DR> commit a felony real soon, ok. :)
LB> Hehe...don'cha love it when the little chestbeaters try to
LB> threaten through a modem. ;)
Even a modem can't filter out the christian poisonality!
Regards,
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Sandra Peake -O'boy-
|Date: 27 Feb 97 22:16:32
EID:8af9 225bb200
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3318261d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Ronald,
On 22 Feb 97 13:40:00 Ronald Vass wrote to Jan Deboer...
> RV> You are dealing with a rouge J.W. fundy.
JD>Oh. In that case, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Sandra!
JD> MERRY CHRISTMAS, Sandra!
JD> HAPPY NEW YEAR, Sandra.
JD> HAPPY ST.Valentines DAY, Sandra!
RV> I do believe that the Christian Fundy, ran away again, and as per
RV> usually never left a note telling all the sinners
RV> on how to get saved. Hell if she can't handle me and my lack of
RV> knowledge in bible lore, can you imagine the fun all the heathens
RV> here would have with the likes of Sandra.
RV> She's a fun person, just takes herself & god, too dam serious.
A FUN JW?....that I gotta see! Entertaining, maybe...but FUN??
;-)
.JdB
... 'Tis not the degrees, but their remarks that I despise. D. Ragland
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Etiquette Lesson
|Date: 28 Feb 97 07:11:02
EID:ee3a 225c3960
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3318261e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 23 Feb 97 15:50:00 David Ragland wrote to Jan Deboer...
JD>"Fervent patriotism as well as religious and revolutionary enthusiasm
JD>often serves as a refuge from a guily conscience." - Eric hoffer.
DR> Refuge from a what? :) Hey look at me! I'm Richard Smith. I
DR> can find spelling errors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But Richard can't match your cunning linguistics, can he!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Reality 101
|Date: 28 Feb 97 07:12:48
EID:4963 225c3980
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 3318261f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 26 Feb 97 08:47:40 Laurie Appleton wrote to Jan Deboer...
LA> Hi Jan,
LA> You seem to be more persistent in leaving me messages than
LA> seems realistic. Perhaps you are desperately crying out for
LA> something to get your "teeth" into and there is really
LA> something "troubling you"? Perhaps a page or two from
LA> Velikovsky's book entitled; EARTH IN UPHEAVAL might provide
LA> something to "chew on" for a while?
[Massive Velikovsky quote's deleted]
Realistic?....from someone who claims to stroll around with dead
Presidents? GUFFAW!
And what does Velikovsky have to do with YOUR claims of strolling around
Mt. St. Helens with "former President Harry Truman" a decade AFTER
Truman died? Trying a little distraction, are We?
Whatsamatter, don't like being shown for the pathological liar that you
are?
Quote, Lurie, quote! After all, that's all you can do - there isn't an
original thought in your little fundy brain - an original lie, maybe.
.JdB
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 01 Mar 97 14:14:34
EID:4577 226171c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331885e6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Lynda Bustilloz said, in a huffy tone of voice, to JUDITH BANDSMA <=-
LB> (odd how he zeroed in on a sexual connotation there, isn't it. I gotta
LB> get a better class of worshipers....)
Smite him! Smite him! Lift up your pie and smite him. Don't forget the
hot coffee rinse.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 01 Mar 97 14:18:32
EID:d560 22617240
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331885e7
REPLY: 1:358/1 bd368504
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quentin Fai said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Steve Quarrella <=-
QF> about halloween". Or 1-800-YOU-PRAY numbers.
I liked the '60s version. You could dial a number in New York and get
the listing for every planned demonstration in the country. I ran up a
lot of phone bills listening to them.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER
|Date: 01 Mar 97 14:23:38
EID:f00f 226172e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 331885e8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Roger Hunter said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> 10 days no one would remember your name.
RH> Ken who??
I'm figuring 9 days for all his messages to get out of the system +1
for those who had a power failure and were a day late picking up mail.
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Fetal Ralph
|Date: 01 Mar 97 16:30:42
EID:91d8 226183c0
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3315cbde
MSGID: 1:229/622 331859eb
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
JB>> Gentle reminder: It's not really safe to fuck with the Harpies.
DM> Er, what about _consenting_ harpies?
Oh, that's ok. No one wants to take away his right to have his
kidneys clawed out through his nostrils.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 01 Mar 97 16:39:44
EID:9870 226184e0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331641ea
MSGID: 1:229/622 33185c26
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY> Okay, then help me out with this.. What evidence is there that
KY> evolution is true?
Alelle frequency changes in populations over generational time.
This has been established since 1990 or so. No educated person
questions this fact.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 01 Mar 97 16:41:40
EID:9870 22618520
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331641ea
MSGID: 1:229/622 33185ca9
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> And look to your own country to find out what's happening when
DH>> people do not. Then decide where you want to live. Or are you
DH>> against the majority allowing abortion or getting prayer out
DH>> of the educational system?
KY> If that is what the people want, fine.. As long as it is more on the
KY> local or state level, and not federal..
. Just so long as you don't have to accept it, right? So it's
OK for a woman in one state to have choices but not in the next state?
What, then, is the point of remaining a country? Dollars?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 01 Mar 97 16:43:50
EID:b19b 22618560
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331642b4
MSGID: 1:229/622 33185d76
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY>> If they were as violent and
KY>> irrational as some claim, there would be a lot more violence then
KY>> there is.
DH>> I guess Oklahoma City just wasn't violent enough for you, huh?
DH>> How much violence would be required for you to consider it
DH>> a problem?
KY> And I will assume you have evidence that a militia was involved?
The only evidence so far is the accused bomber's admission that
he did it and that he was a militia member, from whence he received
the training necessary to blow up the building. That he chose to
do it when it was most populated, rather than in the middle of
the night, indicates he was intending to be as violent as possible.
KY> Any violence would be a problem, but no case of violence has ever been
KY> proven to be the result of a militia's actions.
ROTFL!
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: The madness spreads!!!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 15:22:00
EID:2e2c 22597ac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331349e8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Richard Smith about Well, women? (guff!):
DR> Day #5, wake up alone and then attend ritual, workshops,
DR> and the Stone Soup, then sing "Nine Times a Night" at the
DR> talent show, then dream about having Starwyn, Hawk Shadow,
DR> and Melinda all in my tent for about 12 hours. Then go to
DR> bed alone.
js> Hmmm...I don't know about this sleeping alone thing.
js> When the Lovely Wilbur [tm] isn't there...I get a bit
js> scared in the dark.
RS> Jimson not only justifying, but indicating he has marital
RS> affairs? LOL . . .
js> past affair.
Now, I would have thought the odds on finding another person
willing to sleep with Jimson to be very remote, but here we
have the admission of same. Guess I better go buy a lottery
ticket tonight for sure . . .
... ARGH! Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 25 Feb 97 15:29:02
EID:f828 22597ba0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33134b8e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about 'First Cause' Crap:
jb> And I suppose there is no "smallest nonzero number,"
jb> either? (*chuckle*)
DC> For once, John, you supposed right.
MB> Infinite in both directions. Wadda surprise! NOT!
jb> "...in both directions" from _what_, Marilyn?
RS> Infinite from ANY point, right?
MB> That's the way infinity works. Yes.
I guess the only two of us that don't grasp this must be
Bra-less himself and Dougie Schwandt . . .
... Me? Whine? I don't whine; I bitch. -- John Brawley
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Oh no . . .
|Date: 25 Feb 97 15:31:04
EID:7175 22597be0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33134c08
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about Oh no . . .:
ROD> Rod "...just which interest group do you represent?"
ROD> Swift :)
tlp> I'm a hardcore Libertarian.
RS> I'm going to have to change political parties, it
RS> looks like. Damn.
MB> Don't you know that libertarianism is the really,
MB> really big tent that the Republicans only dream
MB> about?
So there's room for clowns like TLP there?
MB> My fundy friend and I are both libertarians (small l).
MB> He says he'd vote for a libertarian candidate in a
MB> heartbeat, if they ever found one that didn't have a
MB> lifestyle that spoke loudly of his wish to dodge the
MB> bullet of the laws he'd been wilfully breaking for
MB> years.
I know that feeling . . .
... Same to you..Sticks like glue...na na na boo boo....-T. Liberty-Parker
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: paranoid?
|Date: 25 Feb 97 15:35:06
EID:4f03 22597c60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33134cfa
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ed Mills said to Richard Smith about paranoid?:
RS> I don't think anyone else here has been shot at for
RS> expressing their views. You may have started a new club!
EM> Certainly the first of its kind on this side of the
EM> Mason-Dixon line. With a slight twist this time, though
EM> - the heretics are better armed than the crusaders. At
EM> least this particular one, who will be pleasantly
EM> surprised, next time, to have his/her .38's reciprocated
EM> with .44, .45 or 7.62X39 party favors.
RS> When you care enough to send the very best . . .
RS> I don't suppose you have any Talons . . .
EM> Subway ammo! No, I keep Glasers in the .45, they're just
EM> as nasty and they don't ricochet or penetrate more than
EM> one layer of sheetrock. Although a couple years ago, I
EM> had the opportunity to buy a box of Talons. I kick
EM> myself now - they'd have made a cool knick-knack.
I take it that they ARE either illegal and/or out of
production today, then?
EM> The .44 is loaded with Federal 240-grain truncated-nose
EM> JHP's, which will stop any bipedal primate on earth,
Damn, that'll stop most mammals on earth . . .
EM> Kevlar or not. I've also got some interesting handloads
EM> for that toy, swaged-full-jacket 240's with the maximum
EM> charge for H4227 propellant. You never know when a
EM> rhinoceros might get loose from the zoo and bust into
EM> your kitchen.
I'm glad you're not doing pharmaceuticals any longer . . .
... *BLAM!* *BLAM!* Make peck'ular patterns in my wheat field, will ya?!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelie
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:30:08
EID:2c01 2259b3c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313ae40
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ed Mills said to Richard Smith about Believing vs Nonbelie:
RS> ... If the cops throw a net over me, am I legally in seine?
EM> I know it's declasse to respond to a tagline, but....
EM> AAAAAAAAARRRGH!
EM> That was some serious pun ishment.
... Too many puns, not enough time to ex spleen them...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:38:10
EID:b9ec 2259b4c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b022
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about Educational Experienc:
RichS> I like this. You go back so far and answer such old
RichS> messages that yours are the only posts addressed to
RichS> me after I've been gone a month! I love mail!
RodS> :) :) It was that special Yule gift from me to you :) :)
RichS> Aw, you shouldn't have . . .
RodS> Oh yes I should. :) :)
RodS> I note that there is less of a lag now :) :)
RichS> One of us must be slipping . . .
RodS> Yes, it is I :)
Well, it DOES help the conversation flow a bit easier . . .
RodS> Can you please explain the context and meaning of
RodS> the word "gook" as you have used it above?
js> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.
RichS> Has anyone pointed out to Jimson that the word `gook'
RichS> is not part of the Vietnamese language?
RodS> Yes.
RichS> Then he's purposely lying? I thought so, but it's always
RichS> nice to get confirmation.
RodS> Of course. Naturally, living closer to the region and the
RodS> anti-Asian rhetoric, I understand that in every instance "Gook"
RodS> is used to dehumanise people of any Asian background, not just
RodS> Vietnamese people.
He, of course, will deny it.
RichS> So, say about next August, he'll realize what was
RichS> said . . .
RodS> Only if it involves those commie rice-eatin'
RodS> chinko-nazi sombees :) [For the other echo participants,
RodS> I wish to apologise in advance for the language I have
RodS> just used. I do not hold such views, I merely am
RodS> emulating Staaaalin-stupidity-mode... :)]
RichS> I think most of us understood that as a given.
RodS> I just wanted to state it before Jimson kicks both
RodS> afterburners
You mean he's cooking again?
RodS> in and says that his usage of hate speech is justified
RodS> because I used it.
"And if your best friend jumped off a bridge,
would you?"
RichS> He's a fucking bigot, period.
RodS> Perjorative to the maximum, Richard.
RichS> Absolutely.
RodS> Yep... Couldn't agree with someone of the same
RodS> initials any more than I am. A Gazillion Percent
RodS> Correct, Richard!
RodS> Rod "...I think I better get married soon, to solve
RodS> the confusion :)" Swift :)
RichS> You mean he wouldn't take YOUR name?
RodS> We're both taking each other's names... :) :) In fact,
As he has already explained to me.
RodS> we were thinking of a neutral name to both use and
RodS> dispense our existing names, but Staal is so tainted
RodS> now :)
Oh, the infamy of it all . . .
... * Evaluation copy of Blue Wave. Day # 15,465,829,462,076.525
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: I KNEW it!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:40:12
EID:abc5 2259b500
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b09c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about I KNEW it!:
js> ... Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but
js> it hurts when I insert 'em.
RodS> Didn't your mother tell you they were good
RodS> for haemorrhoids? Start shoving away... Trust
RodS> me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)
js> Ahhh you are correct!
RichS> LOL . . . the truth is finally out, as is Jimson . . .
RodS> BINGO! :)
RichS> I knew it, after all that talk about size and
RichS> leather biker bars, the S.O. named Wilbur, etc.
RodS> And, of course, we all know that for Jim's Birthday, we
RodS> should send presents to the dearly *ahem* female
RodS> "Wilbur" something ordered from the Northbound catalog
RodS> at http://www.northbound.com/ :)
RichS> Damn, wish I browsed the web . . .
RodS> Yeah, well, maybe a local library near you has web access.
They do. Will check it out next time I'm down there.
RodS> Alternatively, dial up PPP connections start at about
RodS> $15/month unlimited access :)
Thanx for the advice. When it's possible to slip that into
the budget, I'll give it a look-see.
RodS> Rod "...you are missing out on a *lot*" Swift ;)
Don't I know it.
... It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsie in snide. -- Bud Webster
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Tagline!
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:44:14
EID:0d94 2259b580
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b18e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about Tagline!:
js> Yeah, like I go there with my wife (on vacation) to
js> find rough n ready sex. get real, will ya?
RichS> I swear, there's a tagline there someplace . . .
RichS> ... I go there with my wife to find rough n ready
RichS> sex. -J. Staalin
RodS> I wanna know where he goes when they are not on
RodS> vacation, for that rough n ready sex :)
RichS> Around Grand Rapids? Hmmm . . . no idea . . .
RodS> Maybe they go to that sin city of Lansing! :)
More likely, East Lansing, which is the more daring of the
two . . .
RichS> Maybe he'll give a demonstration at the
RichS> convention . . .
RodS> Oh my! But if it's in Texas, it's probably against
RodS> TX Code Section 21.06 :)
RichS> If we have it in Vegas, is there a corresponding code?
RodS> I suspect so. I do not know if New Mexico has an
RodS> anti-sodomy law or crimes-against-"nature" law.
Judging from what they've done to local native americans, I
would say neither.
RodS> TX21.06 is effectively dead, however.
All right!
RichS> Oh yes.
RodS> Time to drag out the FAQ and give it a "new year
RodS> update" :)
RichS> Where IS Sean at, btw? Haven't seen any posts from
RichS> him in a long time . . .
RodS> I think there is something about powder taking... We
RodS> may need a new FAQ committee.
I think I heard that Hector was performing that service, but
maybe we should bring it up at the next Secret Cabal
Meeting.
... THERE'S A TRANSPORTER ROOM INSIDE THE VIRGIN MARY? -- Sean Mccullough
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Smegma Staalin
|Date: 25 Feb 97 22:59:16
EID:5c3d 2259b760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b514
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about Smegma Staalin:
RodS> It is customary in educational circles to only refer
RodS> to yourself *after* college as a *major* if one has
RodS> passed it. If not, you can only claim to have studied
RodS> some units in an attempt to gain a major... :)
RichS> Almost totally true. Here in the states, though,
RichS> often people will speak of their Major, even though
RichS> they may not hae attained it.
RodS> Correctly, they normally state that they are either
RodS> *studying* to achieve it, or have graduated it with
RodS> the major stream completed.
We must have been inordinately relaxed about that back in
the MidWest.
RichS> We're somewhat relaxed about it. But you're still
RichS> correct, as far as real etiquette is concerned, I
RichS> suppose.
RodS> Most definitely. Given that Jim didn't graduate, and
RodS> Jim hence did not gain the academic qualification nor
RodS> the degree program requirements for an English Major,
RodS> he's just as plain and ordinary as the rest of you.
And he only matriculates when he thinks that no one is
watching.
RodS> "Once studied towards" doesn't mean shit. I could
Seems to do very well for Brawley, even IF he can't add or
subtract on a numberline, figure out there is only one size
infinity, etc. . . .
RodS> take one unit in first-year physics aiming toward a
RodS> degree in theoretical physics. I wouldn't sprout
RodS> about being a "theoretical physics major", and imply
RodS> that I am actually a trained and educated theoretical
RodS> physicist. That would be duplicitous :)
That would be Brawley . . .
RodS> It's also exactly what Jimbozo is doing :)
RodS> We call it lying :)
Well, at least he's consistent.
rods> I doubt he's currently an English major! :)
RichS> Oh, you got that right.
RodS> :) But of course. :)
Judging from the mangling the tongue takes by him . . .
rods> To be so, he'd have to have graduated from a degree
rods> program with such a recognised major stream.
RichS> And, presumably, he'd have to know something
RichS> about English.
RodS> Correct :) He has shown much evidence to the contrary :)
Exactly. And there's nothing more shameful than a person
who can't grasp their native tongue.
smith> ROFLMGDAO . . . gads, I don't have the heart to tell
smith> the lil' feller . . . . . .
rods> Well, in Jimson's world, black people probably don't
rods> exist :)
RichS> They probably live in a more upscale trailor park, or
RichS> in actual houses.
RodS> Or they're just like Amos, Andy, or maybe even Rosa,
RodS> if she'll sit at the back of the bus :)
"Wilbur don't 'low no guitar playing 'round here!"
rods> Neither do gay people probably. Both those groups
rods> have had marches of more than 500,000 in
rods> Washington :)
RichS> True. And the blacks had the first official Million Man
RichS> March, though there may be some controversy about numbers.
RodS> Uh, the GLBT March on Washington was before the Million Man
RodS> march. Of course, I suppose the war protests certainly had
RodS> a helluva lot of people in Washington too :) :)
But wasn't the Million Man March the first one to bill
itself as a Million Man March?
smith> I think they could have marched right across Jimson's
smith> instep and he'd still not have noticed . . .
rods> Some of them probably did. :) :) Remember, he likes
rods> leather, and someone named "Wilbur" and gay biker
rods> bars :)
RichS> I bet he's a bottom, not a top.
RodS> Oh boy! Won't Chris be excited :) :)
There you go, you've now got entertainment for your bachelor
party(-ies) . . .
rods> Heck, I bet the Lesbian Avengers could organise a
rods> better March on Washington than the Promisefilth.
RichS> Or Queer Nation.
RodS> QN, or Act-up, or even the PFLAG Ladies Auxilliary :)
Or even the Dancing Dorothys.
smith> You know, you just can't buy entertainment like this.
rods> That's why it should be in the FAQ :)
smith> Saved for posterity . . .
rods> Only if it is Jim's, and if I get to pull it outta
rods> there on a regular basis...
RichS> I hope you have a good milkcrate to stand on before you fist
RichS> the mister . . .
RodS> Fist-a-mister. It's not only a tagline, but an echo
RodS> tradition.
Sounds almost like an attraction at a Carny Midway . . .
RodS> :) And I get to sit on the milkcrate... He gets to sit on
RodS> something else :) :) *wink*
RodS> For the humour impaired, btw, I'm "not into that". :)
LOL . . . now you've confused Jimson for SURE.
... Nut bolts and screws washers
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:02:18
EID:af95 2259b840
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b5ca
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Rod Swift said to Richard Smith about Cracker Barrel boycott:
Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle,
Jd> Ken! Must be tough going nude this time of year!
ky> Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with
ky> it. But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
smith> Oh really? Evidence for this? What about Jesus
smith> with the naked boy in the garden?
rods> Got a scriptural reference for that :) :)
RichS> Gotta look for it again, I have it saved someplace . . .
RodS> It's John, right? :)
I think so . . . damn hard drive . . .
RichS> . . . dang, can't find it now. (GOTTA clear off that hard
RichS> drive!) Anyone else remember the chapter and verse of this
RichS> pup? I remember it being discussed in the last six months.
smith> ... Creative Bible use #5: David & Jonathan lovers?
smith> ISam 1:26/20:41/18:3-4
rods> Ah, that's 2 SAM 1:26, 1 SAM 20:41-42 and 1
rods> SAM 18:1-4 :)
RichS> So I noticed after I typed it into the tagline file. I have
RichS> GOT to go edit it, if I can make it fit. Thanx for pointing
RichS> it out.
RodS> Not a problem. I'm sure the Christians love having this
RodS> pointed out to them.
RodS> They claim they hate the SIN not the SINNER. The sin is
RodS> homosexual SEXUAL ACTIVITY, not homosexual relationships.
RodS> Given that, their entire opposition to gay marriage rights
RodS> collapses :)
But not their fear of homosexuals.
... ...Piss everone off! Nuke the Gay Baby Whales for Jesus!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Rat finds Food at End of
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:04:20
EID:3760 2259b880
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b644
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Richard Smith about Rat finds Food at End of:
DH> On the CTV news tonight:
DH> Toronto, Ontario:
DH> A 59-year-old Catholic Priest has been charged with Child
DH> Molestation over incidents occurring between 1991 and 1993.
DH> The parents originally reported the item to officials in
DH> the Church, where they were assured that the issue would
DH> be dealt with.
DH> However it was dealt with, the police were never notified,
DH> the pastor still has his position. He has NOW been charged
DH> by police.
We just had something similar happen around here about the
middle of the month. I'll have to see if I kept anything
about it.
Thanx for posting this. I appreciate it.
... Pi R Squared? No. Pie R round, Cornbread R square!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: No 8 Page Goodby
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:05:22
EID:96d0 2259b8a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b682
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Richard Smith about No 8 Page Goodby:
LB> And sorry I'm not going to get an answer from him on it.
MB> Oh! Did I miss another one of Al's good-bye messages
MB> in eight parts?
LB> No, he buried it on the Internet this time.
LB> Or more accurately, buried HIMSELF on the Internet this
LB> time...
RS> Oh no, I missed it! Wait a second. I forgot. He'll
RS> be back in two weeks.
RV> Nope. Wrong movie. That was when I allowed him to run away.
LOL . . .
... Inherit the Windbag. -- A. Schroeder
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:06:24
EID:f5a0 2259b8c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b6c0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Damien Wellman said to Richard Smith about native americans:
RS> "Your mother was a hampster, and your father reeked of
RS> elderberries. Now go away, or I will taunt you a second
RS> time."
DW> You are obviously False Monty Scum; It's "Your father
DW> SMELT of elder- berries."
Well, so it was. That's what I get for allowing 15 years to
pass since my last complete viewing . . .
... Look at the BONES! -- Tim the Enchanter
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:09:26
EID:8aba 2259b920
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b776
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
David Worrell said to Richard Smith about infinitesimals:
jb> (I thought they might do that; I just wanted to watch
jb> them dance....)
DW> I'm sure you did, John.
RS> Is Brawly still under the delusion that he calls the
RS> piper?
DW> Hmmm.... delusions John has been shown to suffer from>...
DW> ... Yes, here it is. He does suffer from
DW> that delusion, too.
That took so long, I was beginning to wonder if it was an
infinite list. Not a BIG infinite list, though, but more
one of the medium size infinite lists . . .
... Cauterize someone you love today, with a Brawly Probe!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: .
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:12:28
EID:e61b 2259b980
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b82c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to Richard Smith about .:
RS> Well, that's two harpies heard from, with positive feedback
RS> in both cases.
JB> SHIT!!!!
LOL . . . taken to ordering it out, if you can't get them to
eat any pie?
JB> Have been having bad mail problems. But I acknowledged this
JB> one about the same time Lynda did.
I've been having problems on this end as well. It would
seem there was a concensus, unless I have to run it up the
crucifix and see who genuflects for the harpy-wannabees?
JB> It was priceless. Shall we put you on staff as freelance
JB> advertising copy writer?
Tres cool. Yes, certainly. Though, I must inform you, I
cannot take some of my wages in trade . . .
... Incubus [tm], the Official Footware of the Harpy League.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: paranoid?
|Date: 25 Feb 97 23:13:30
EID:e72a 2259b9a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3313b86a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about paranoid?:
RS> ... I'm easily amused, just give me a gun & a yard full of
RS> fundamentalists ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
DC> How does that compare with a 'shit load of fundamentalists'?
Well, one of those implies how many fundamentalists one can
hold in one's ass. Homey don't play that game around here,
so . . .
... Errata: "In the beginning" should read "Catch this shit..."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: No Man Unclean
|Date: 26 Feb 97 05:41:32
EID:3599 225a2d20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3314135c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to All about No Man Unclean:
bh> Why did the sheet of all the animals represent the Gentiles?
bh> Because of the Noachide covenant.
DM> The sheet of all the animals refers to the ruling that ALL are
DM> eligible to join the Ku Klux Klan; yea, some quadrupeds there have
DM> risen to the rank of Kleagal and even Wizard on the basis of their
DM> superior IQs. Noachide is, of course, an early version of Naugahide,
DM> a humane replacement for sheepskin upon which covenants, diplomas,
DM> and the like may be written.
bh> In this way, Peter was taught that even those who are not
bh> Jewish, and eat all meats, are also to be saved by Messiah.
bh> Thus Peter said, "God has shown me not to call any MAN
bh> unclean."
DM> "for by the separation of his toes, MAN parteth the hoof, and by
DM> his acid reflux SURELY he cheweth the cud: therefore is MAN not
DM> unclean. He is Kosher, and may be enjoyed for all meals except on
DM> fast days. Yea, they that weareth rubber boots and spend long times
DM> in streams may even THEN be counted as fish and enjoyed during
DM> Lent."
DM> Good news, indeed, Brother Hughes!
*R*O*F*L*M*G*D*A*O*!*!*!*
"Brother Maynard, fetch the Holy Hand
Grenade of Antioch."
... It's like those miserable Psalms; they're so depressing. -- God
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Cross Posting???
|Date: 26 Feb 97 05:45:34
EID:ee3d 225a2da0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3314144e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Norman Solomon said to All about Cross Posting???:
ns> Hi All
Hey there, Norman.
ns> I would like some advice please.
ns> I have discovered that I can post things I read in
ns> here to other {Fido} echo's. Is this OK?
Ah, absolute power at last! It depends on where you
post it. Some echos might not appreciate receiving some of
this stuff.
ns> They would be local echo's (England), where I feel that
ns> they ought to have an idea of what is going on in some
ns> sections of "Christianity" in other parts of the world.
ns> What are the rules?
I don't think there are any hard fast rules. I would say,
if you were reposting something of mine, that I would
appreciate it at the very least if you give me proper credit
for it, and put down where it came from. I imagine the
others would feel somewhat the same about their words.
... 24 hours in a day/24 beers in a case: Coincidence???
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: clones
|Date: 26 Feb 97 05:48:36
EID:f626 225a2e00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33141504
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to All about clones:
KS> Well, 'Dolly', the first actual adult mammal clone
KS> is alive and well. Coincidentally, she's a sheep.
Well helloooooo, Dolly!
KS> I'm having a devil (oops) of a time trying to figure
KS> out what impact this will have on fundys...
They won't have to proselytize anymore?
... My father doesn't drink anymore. He doesn't drink any less, either.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring Christan Faction
|Date: 27 Feb 97 17:44:38
EID:e446 225b8d80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33160e56
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to David Rice about WARRING CHRISTAN FACTIONS:
KW> So Bear's still ahead of Leo.
DR> Ursa Major or Ursa Minor?
DC> Andress.
. . . undressed . . .
... D.A.M.N.: Naked Mothers Against Dyslexia
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: A baby + God = Hell
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:02:40
EID:14dc 225b9040
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161290
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jan Deboer said to Ken Young about A baby + God = Hell:
RV> * SLMR 2.1a * Dead Babies go to Hell. -- Psalms 58:3 --
ky> May be just a tagline, but I had to respond.. In my
ky> Bible it says: The wicked are estranged from the womb;
ky> they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Jd> Well, psychology claims that sociopaths are born, and
Jd> incurable, so here, at last, we find a item of truth in
Jd> the book of deception! There _have_ to be a _few_ ; as
Jd> Julie Andrews sang, "a spoonful of sugar helps the
Jd> medicine go down."
ky> We may be a wicked people, but being born insane is
ky> something else altogether.
Jd> But, Ken.....newborns SPEAKING LIES fresh outta the
Jd> womb? Just SPEAKING would be miraculous........and your
Jd> evidence for this is?
ky> It doesn't have to be verbally.
JD> Speaking anally, then? I mean, what else is there?
This kind of speech was first heard about the time of the
pharoahs. It was often referred to as a toot uncommon . . .
... I am about as fruity as they come -- David `Pollinate Me!' Ragland
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Bye
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:12:42
EID:5cf4 225b9180
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331614ea
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Paul Davis said to All about Bye:
pd> Hi,
pd> Well, I just got my first InterNet account and I need to
pd> drop some Fido echoes. As much as I'd like to stay in
pd> here and ride the storms and make new friends and
pd> enemies I have to drop this one because of it's
pd> phenomenal daily flow.
pd> To everyone who has written to me, flamer, enquirer,
pd> conversationist, if you feel that I've wasted your time
pd> then you are welcome to send me an Email to the address
pd> in my sig and I'll write you a reply.
pd> nice to have met some of you ;)
pd> Paul
I guess you're unfamiliar with the amount of usage on the
Net, especially UseNet, eh? We're nothing when it comes to
daily traffic in comparrison. Run away now.
... why don't you give birth and then kill the child? -- Xtian Paul Davis
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:43:44
EID:85d5 225b9560
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161c30
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to Dave Hamilton about Cheese Whiz:
DH> same frequency per 1,000,000 births that was previously
DH> dealt with by simply crushing the baby's head into a
DH> long pulpy cylinder with forceps. It was over exactly
DH> this issue that Canadian Catholic
JB> I think it was either 42 or 46 NATIONWIDE last year.
I've read that it's about 160, still a very low figure,
considering . . .
JB> But if he STILL (after seeing a picture...or so he says)
JB> thinks there's room enough for a pair of scissors and a
JB> vacuum machine, he needs more than glasses.
I think it tells us something about Wilbur . . .
... If space is a vacuum, who changes the bags?
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelie
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:49:46
EID:efca 225b9620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161d9a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to David Worrell about Believing vs Nonbelie:
et> No, and I would ask Marcia Clark to help but she could
et> not get a jury to convict O.J. Maybe the lawyers that
et> got the jury to find him
DW> And the point of all this babbling was... what, exactly?
DW> That you're the equivalent of a piss-poor lawyer?
JB> This whole thing with OJ troubles me no end. Whether he
JB> did it or not (and *I* happen to think he did), the fact
JB> is that a jury found him 'not guilty'.
Of the crime of Murder.
JB> Under our system
JB> of law, no one can be tried twice for the same crime.
That's right, and he's not being tried for Murder again.
He's being tried (or was tried, now that it's after the
fact) for Wrongful Death. Different charge.
JB> While a civil suit does not have the force of a criminal
JB> suit, how can anyone say 'ok, you aren't guilty of this
JB> crime but you still are going to have to pay damages for
JB> it'? Doesn't this violate the double jeopardy clause?
Nope, see above.
... Guns don't kill people, OJ kills people. -- NRA via Dennis Miller
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:51:48
EID:a029 225b9660
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161e14
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to Ken Young about Exemplifying examples:
ky> Yep. His name is God.
JB> No, GOD is a job title, not a name.
Yep. Gonzalez, at least, knew the name of HIS Deity . . . I
guess Ken is just illiterate . . .
... Say the secret word and win an afterlife. -- YHVH's Groucho aspect
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:52:50
EID:4271 225b9680
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161e52
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to David Rice about Canadian Politics:
DR> How does one write "Fule Injector" in Dutch?
JB> Fuel Injector.
Glad you corrected that. I was wondering what David was
talking about, giving shots to idiots . . .
... A dorky dick-head with ears in white jeans----outstanding ears -- JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Goodbye /1
|Date: 27 Feb 97 18:55:52
EID:7171 225b96e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 33161f08
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to Rod Swift about Goodbye /1:
RS> Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the fertiliser for Jim's
RS> plants" Swift :)
JB> Interesting question. How do you fertilize plastic plants?
Artificial plastic vomit and fake rubber dog turds?
... A fart is a cry for help from a turd in trouble! -- Phrozen^doberman
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:10:54
EID:8f99 225b9940
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3316228e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Lynda Bustilloz said to Norman Solomon about Bored:
DW> Are you saying that Christianity is a *race*? Damn,
DW> everytime I think we've plumbed the depths of your
DW> stupidity, you show us the pit is actually even deeper.
ns> You have studied theology, haven't you? Which part of
ns> "for we are aliens and foreigners here" did'nt you
ns> understand?
LB> That doesn't really address the question. Just because
LB> Christians think they are aliens (you KNOW you're going
LB> to hear about that, don't you?) doesn't make them a
LB> 'race'. There are christians in every racial group, but
LB> christianity is a religion, not a race.
Norman seemed to understand this when I explained it to him,
I wonder why he's continuing to be obtuse with you and
David?
DW> And people say the American education system is all
DW> fucked up. We appear to be parsecs ahead of you pathetic
DW> bastards.
ns> Your posts could purswade me that your education was
LB> ^^^^^^^^(should be persuade)
ns> screwed up, having attended Uni in the states
ns> (Harvard), and a Doctorate in England (Oxford) I have
ns> experienced of both systems.
Why do the Brits feel it necessary to tell us how superior
they are to us? I think we could tell from their Ebonics
already . . .
ns> If it is your attention to keep digging yourself into
LB> ^^^^^^^^^ I think the word you're look
LB> for is "intention"
ns> holes of this magnitude, might I suggest you hire some
ns> plant :)
LB> :) Only two years of community college here, but might I
LB> suggest that you, educated on two continents tho you may
LB> be, take a bit of EXTRA time to proof read any post
LB> where you're bragging about your superior education.
Or even just get a spell checker, as I've suggested . . .
LB> Especially when your two mistakes here indicate that you
LB> don't have a great understanding of spelling OR
LB> vocabulary, which is your problem with the word "racist"
LB> as well.
Hmm, would have to agree with you. I seems, though, to also
have grasped my explanation for why the word `racist' is not
accurate. I wonder if he's just being disingenuous?
LB> (yes, yes, I have read the exchange regarding dyslexia.
LB> None of these are dyslexic errors. Use a dictionary if
LB> you are unsure, or refrain from "my education is better
LB> than your education" games.)
LOL . . . So much for showing up with a pre-set excuse for
being fucked up . . . He's already reminding me of
Chris.
... Jimson Staalin University -- where learning is never a hindrance.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Reading Incomprehensi
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:11:56
EID:6623 225b9960
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331622cc
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Lynda Bustilloz said to Dan Ceppa about READING INCOMPREHENSI:
DC> So, just what did P&G do that made you so fucking mad at
DC> them?
LB> Child proof caps.
LB> They've made his life a living hell....I mean, push down
LB> AND turn at the same time?!?!
Explains why they rely on the missionary position so much . . .
... A Kennedy's most common sexual position: Defendant.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 27 Feb 97 19:23:58
EID:1f7c 225b9ae0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 3316259e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Steve Quarrella said to Don Martin about Pedophile Christian cook:
SQ> "Tattaglia's a pimp. He could have never outfought
SQ> Santino. But I never knew until this day that it was
SQ> Barzini all along."
SQ> I saw HBO's special with Goodall the other night. My goodness,
SQ> has she gotten old. My memories of her are of the work she
SQ> did many many years ago, and I'd wager that she was in her 20s
SQ> when she was filmed for the movies I saw in high school.
SQ> Dian Fossey is of course no longer with us, but what
SQ> happened to the woman that Louis Leakey sent out to study
SQ> the orangutans? Galdikas? Was that her name?
Maybe her name was Goldilocks, and she was sent out to study
bears?
... Jesus to crowd: "No! I said picnic not pick nits! Damn apes." -gr/DC
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Homer Simpson
|Sub: Re: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 01 Mar 97 13:36:12
EID:6c8a 22616c80
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 3318854d
PID: CNet PRO 4.26 (beta)
Hitler. Stalin. Simpson. Mussolini. Mao Tse Tung.
HS> well the bible was writen in Greek and Hebrew, and each alphabet
HS> letter had a numeric number for it,
I don't know about Hebrew, but that is correct for Greek.
HS> and from what i read in a book
HS> about numerics is that used on the bible it shows a pattern from start
HS> to end, e.g the number 7 had something to to with GOD from start to
HS> end.
People see what they want to see. I can "prove" with numerics
that you or I or Fleagle are (is? am? whatever!) the Beast.
HS> now if they used the same test on any other book ever writen it would
HS> be mumbo-jumbo,
If you play the Pink Floyd album Dark Side Of The Moon whilst
watching The Wizard Of Oz, you will find many strange
coincidences between the film and the album. No, I'm not kidding.
It wasn't planned that way, but coincidence can be pretty extreme
sometimes.
HS> the bible talks about nuclear bombs, cars, and even earth
HS> here is one example (of many)
I'd like to hear more.
HS> Many people assummed that the earth was flat until Columbus made his
HS> westward voyage in 1492 AD. Most thought they would fall over the edge.
Whoah, whoah, whoah. That is WRONG. Very few, if any, people
thought the world was flat at that time. The Greeks realised
that the world was round somewhere around 600 BC simply from
viewing the shape of the horizon - and, in fact, long before
Jesus' time the Greek mathematician Hipparchus calculated the
circumference of the earth reasonably accurately. (Ptolemy also
tried but he was way off the mark). The reason nobody wanted to
sail westward from Europe to Asia was that they didn't know about
the continent of America. They were simply worried about being
away from land for so long.
HS> Commom sense said the world was flat,
Hmm, hardly.
HS> but GOD stated in approx., 712 BC that it was round.
So did the Greeks. (Where did you get such an accurate date
from?)
HS> you believe what that person says, and i'll belive what the bible
HS> says, there you go problem fixed :)
Hardly proof of the Bible's overall accuracy.
HS> and allso i don't care what anyone one says, i believe there is a GOD
HS> for he has answer my prayers
Right. You believe, I don't. Peace be.
HS> but he said nup, it's not ear infection, and then said it COULD mayby
HS> be brain damage, me still being young and i must say i really loved
HS> boomer, i prayed for him in the holy ghost and in understanding.
HS> and allso crying for boomer because i loved my dog,
HS> anyway only the next day or two days after, i went to see boomer, he
HS> was now walking fine :)
If God was so wonderful why was your dog crook in the first
place?
HS> thats GOD for me, he's my best friend. because i don't care what
HS> anyone says human friends will ALLWAYS let you down(at one time or
HS> another) but not GOD.
I used to be fairly religious. I've read most of the Bible and I
believed in God and Jesus the Christ. However, for reasons known
only to himself, the old sod made my life a misery. I started to
have doubts. Ever since I decided that God didn't exist and that
Jesus was a phony, my life has improved immensely. I now control
my own destiny rather than wasting my time trying to petition a
being that nobody has seen. I now am able to look at things with
a critical rather than prejudiced eye. I no longer believe that
you have to believe in God to be a good person. My life is a
whole lot more fun, and I no longer fear death. If that doesn't
suit you, then so be it. But I'm happy now.
HS> so instead of trying to find something to degrade the bible, why not
HS> quit while your behind, and find GOD?
I'm trying to. Really, I am. But I won't believe in something
that to me makes no sense.
HS> please forgive me Fleage, Almaz, Booger, and RMb190?? if i said
HS> something of my OWN accord to offend you.
You haven't, don't worry.
HS> and the people that are ofended are the ones that don't like the light
HS> showing what they really like.
It seems that Christians get offended whenever anyone mentions
even one error in the Bible.
Take care.
Gang warily
Buster
... O instrument of God, force-fed on ignorance and lies.. - Walkyier
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Rich Uhr
|Sub: Re: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 01 Mar 97 13:36:53
EID:0312 22616c80
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 33188558
PID: CNet PRO 4.26 (beta)
Ja> What's more, It says in the Bible(tm) that if you tell people once and
Ja> they argue, just leave.
Why?
Gang warily
Buster
... God will pardon me. It is His trade. - Heine
--- CNet/4
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Mark O'neill
|Sub: Re: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 01 Mar 97 13:36:53
EID:4a6b 22616c80
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 3318855d
PID: CNet PRO 4.26 (beta)
Mark wrote to All about the paradoxes involved in using Christians
as lightning conductors on church steeples:
MO> While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as
MO> lightning conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this about
MO> READING INCOMPREHENSI
Why, you evil, wicked, malevolent, nefarious old crone! How dare
you steal my header! :)
Gang warily
Buster
... If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way.
--- CNet/4
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: All
|Sub: Back
|Date: 01 Mar 97 13:37:03
EID:0d28 22616ca0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 33188568
PID: CNet PRO 4.26 (beta)
I just thought I'd let you all know that the most despised
ex-HOLYSMOKE writer this side of Palestine is back, for a while
at least.
Check six
Buster
... O instrument of God, force-fed on ignorance and lies.. - Walkyier
--- CNet/4
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Mark.Kimes@f735.n102.z1.gryn.org
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 28 Feb 97 10:30:53
EID:1ec6 225c53c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 42fc3ea1
REPLY: 1:12/98.1 001fa80c
On 20 Feb 97, Mark.Kimes@f735.n102.z1.gryn.org wrote:
M > From: Mark.Kimes@f735.n102.z1.gryn.org (Mark Kimes)
M > Newsgroups: trends.fido.holysmoke
M > Subject: "IS NOT"
M > Organization: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965
M > JB>>>> Some of us have rafts....
M > RC>>> Yours appears rather overinflated; careful that it doesn't
M > burst.
M > HP>> (Pssst! Hey, Brawley! He's not actually talking about rafts.
M > Get HP>> it?)
JB> (Pssst! Hey Kimes! Who gives a shit?)
M > Why, you do, of course. That's why we're into our, what, fourth
M > message in the
M > thread? now, bait-boy. (And you still haven't scraped together the
M > guts to admit you were wrong. :-)
"I was wrong."
End thread now?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Harass an agnostic! Burn a question mark in his yard!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 28 Feb 97 10:34:07
EID:f870 225c5440
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5e9759ac
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3c4
On 25 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> Where did you get the preposterous notion that Leibniz thought
RC> of infinitesimals as discrete rather than continuous?
JB> You mean, you got the Berlinski, read some, and _didn't_ read
JB> the pages that started the whole reason for arguing about the
JB> Berlinski?
RC> And exactly what pages would those be?
RC> They don't appear to exist.
pp. 110-111.
(Posts are crossing. I hand-typed some of the pertinent text.
Please see that message.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Harass an agnostic! Burn a question mark in his yard!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: death by whining
|Date: 28 Feb 97 10:35:32
EID:500e 225c5460
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 d4b14e3f
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3c5
On 25 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> So when you assert that if YOU are full of shit, it's only
RC> because somebody ELSE is full of shit (blaming Berlinski,
RC> for instance), what exactly is one seeing there in your
RC> text, John?
JB> When I clearly _got_ the mis-spell _from_ Berlinski,
RC> So you accept no responsibility at all for repeating the mistake?
_How would I have known it was a mistake_?
I didn't give the spelling a single thought until you pointed out the
misspelling. Before that, how could I 'repeat' a mistake I didn't know
WAS a mistake?
I have not "repeated" it since you corrected me, I checked the
Encyclopedia to see which was correct, and reported that you were
correct and Berlinski's "Leibnitz" was wrong. At least give credit
where it's due; you're beating a dead horse.
JB> and _you_ got the Berlinski and _confirm_ that spelling's
JB> in there,
RC> Certainly. You picked a poor text to serve as your "math bible"
RC> for your crackpot-style fundy foolishness. Another mistake.
I picked one described as a) for the layman, b) descriptive, c) simple,
d) without many _formulae_, and e) by someone who supposedly knew his
shit. I picked it also because the ad for it appeared in
_Science_News_, which I highly respect.
I had to start _somewhere_, and that seemed like a good place to start.
It still does. I understood more about "the calculus" by reading the
Berlinski than I got from any of the other half-dozen or so higher level
and formula-filled college texts I already had, all of which assumed
basic knowledge I didn't possess.
JB> if I wanted to speak with *&%__you__%&* ("o, wise and superior
JB> mathematical expert")),
RC> I daresay that compared to you, most first graders are "wise and
RC> superior mathematical experts," John.
(*sigh*) Never cease overstating cases, do you?
RC> Accepting responsibility for your mistakes, John, does not imply
RC> accepting sole responsibility. While it may be the case that
RC> ONE of your mistakes was indeed "solely" yours -- infinitesimals
RC> supposedly being considered as discrete by Leibniz -- surely
RC> you can at the very least accept SOME measure of responsibility
RC> for your own actions in disseminating mathematical misinformation!
RC> Or can you?
Sure! "I disseminate mathematical misinformation."
Now, can we cease slapping each other, terminate the thread, or go on to
greater things?
RC> Are you so afraid of taking responsibuility for your mistakes,
RC> no matter what their origins, that you must persist in denial
RC> day after day, week after week, month after month?
Obviously not, but I _will_ persist in claiming 'standard' math does not
have the formal concepts enabling me to justify the axiomatic
underpinnings of my "Tetrahedraverse" concept-structure. Some others
here have amply confirmed that, and since you've refused to counter with
anything definitively oppositional, I have no choice but to assume you
agree.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Buddhism: Music by God; Lyrics by Siddharta Gautama.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: responsibility
|Date: 28 Feb 97 10:50:07
EID:7c4c 225c5640
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 50fd06a7
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3c6
On 25 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> and you go out and find that yes, indeed, both "errors" are
JB> definitely in the book that I read,
RC> WRONG. You only _accuse_ Berlinski. There is no supporting evidence.
As noted elsewhere in this packet, a supporting message is on its way to
you. (pp. 110-111, meantime.)
JB> then what-the-hell do you _think_ was the case?
RC> I think you're still an arrogant, egotistical twit whose idiocy
RC> is equivalent to that of the most bible-bound fundy.
Think what you like. Fundies do; why should a "math Fundie" be any
different?
JB> I blamed Berlinski 'cause they were obviously Berlinski's
JB> mistakes. I surely didn't _create_ the mistakes out of thin
JB> air. Right? You DID read the Berlinski, didn't you?
RC> Of course you blame anyone but yourself, because you have no idea
RC> what it means to accept responsibility for your own mistake in
RC> mindlessly and gullibly repeating the mistakes of others. Moreover,
One is not guilty of "repeating" a _mistake_ unless one _knows_ it is a
mistake. The same is true of a Fundie-cretinist repeating ICR lies; he
is not a liar himself, he's just repeating what he _thinks_ (or
_believes_, in the case of a Fundie) is true. If you want to call him
a liar anyway, well, that's your business, but it's a cognitive
distortion--"mislabelling"--to do so.
RC> you appear to have created at least ONE mistake out of the thin air
RC> that separates your ears.
You didn't answer my second question. I've asked it now several times,
watching for the answer that'd lead me to believe _you_ know what you're
talking about. You've snuck around it each time, including this
time.
Did you READ the Berlinski book, or are you just talkin' through
your hat?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Speed doesn't kill; running into slow things kills.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 28 Feb 97 10:58:07
EID:f870 225c5740
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 996318be
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3c8
On 25 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> If you are actually going to make a real effort to educate yourself,
RC> John, let me know that you mean it and I'll provide exact citations.
RC> What town are you in? I can probably access your local library's
RC> electronic card catalog via the internet.
Don't bother. I do the same, and know how to fake it or 'talk my way
in' to the U. of Missouri and Washington U. libraries.
I have several subjects for that sort of heavy research, in order of
importance:
Quantum nonlocality (clarifications and improvements)
"Tetrahedraverse's" underpinnings (topology),
more on point-source pleochroic haloes in biotite, and now
(recent info, not from you), "triangulated" ('tetrahedronized')
spacetime manifolds.
None of them are currently in sufficient order to be efficiently hunted,
but late Spring/ early Summer should see some opportunity. I'd actually
rather pay a professor for a few hours' discussion, but my finances may
prohibit that.
But on our specific subject of discussion: I've already found that what
I need doesn't exist, so what's the point in beating a library to death
looking for what ain't there?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Anger is a wind which blows out the lamp of reason.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...sat on a wall...
|Date: 28 Feb 97 11:09:00
EID:4043 225c5920
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 fe986d43
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3ce
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> Wait a couple days: I just fought a new hard drive and I/O card
JB> to a standstill, and my IRQs, DMAs, and base addresses are (SN)AFU.
JB> It's Sunday, and I can't call the hardware people 'till tomorrow.
JB> I have too many adapter cards in this thing, and my scanner card
JB> is one of 'em. (Yeah, I'm too lazy to manually type several pages
JB> in, rather than scan and OCR 'em.)
RC> Too lazy to type page numbers, too?
Why not be complete? Besides, I had already given you the page numbers.
(By now, you should have seen the typed-in text. I gave up and typed,
since my scanner was still not working. Neither was my tape accelerator
card. Damn sound cards! Mine wants _three_ IRQs, three base addresses,
and two DMAs (8-bit, 16-bit, and MIDI), and the new I/O card ate at
least two base addesses I already had. Everything's working now, but I
dread adding a new video card or a graphics-to-NTSC video output
card.... I'm out of IRQs, and I still have three card slots open....)
RC> Regarding your "infinitesimals are magically discrete" claim, right?
Rgarding my claim that Berlinski's interpretation of Leibniz's thinking
processes indicated that Leibniz thought of infinitesimals as discrete
entities, not as little segments of continuity.
JB> The card conflicts, the new I/O card, the BIOS on the card and
JB> the computer's CMOS, and the 1.2GB new drive are all behaving
JB> with NO sense or consistency.
RC> A pre-Shenism?
"pre-Shenism?"
You'd a hadda been here. The thing'd do something different even when I
did nothing but turn the computer off in disgust and take a break, then
turn it back on. It was NOT conducive to trust. I, a former
electronics technician, DESPISE an "intermittent." Once it "goes away
by itself" I can't ever -trust- the machine as much as before.
JB> First time I ever saw a computer adapter card lying to itself.
JB> (*grin*)
RC> Perhaps it's a fundy.
Perhaps I don't trust it.
RC> Ask it if zero is a number.
RC> }:-)
It thinks so. In fact, it thinks zero is the _only_ OTHER 'number.'
But then, it's just a dumb machine with no philosophical bent.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ignoring a demand
|Date: 28 Feb 97 11:29:37
EID:738e 225c5ba0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 28679fe1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3cf
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> I don't dare write it in contexts where it's applicable,
JB> without being sure it's correct.
RC> Nothing to worry about overmuch. I would let you know. You would
Oh, _would_ you now? No shit? Really? (*chuckle*)
RC> even find it painless if you could somehow rein in your ego
RC> when contesting those who try to help you correct your mistakes.
There's a difference between an ignoramus maintaining an ignorant
position, and a man outta his field already having had years of
conversations from which he concludes that what he wants doesn't
actually exist...
JB> A side note, just for the record: my mind appears to work
JB> very well with visuals, not well with abstracts like
JB> math-on-the-page. I got straight 'A's in _geometry_, and
JB> my only 'F' in algebra.
RC> Then you should be grateful for the work of Descartes, who showed
RC> how the two could be unified; anything in geometry can be translated
RC> into algebraic terms, and (more suitably for you) _vice versa_.
I could transfer to another, but not myself use, algebraic means of
describing point actions in the network of vertex order 12. I visualize
quite accurately in a geometric sense, but there are no _numbers_ or
_formulae_ in the visuals; it's all pictures.
JB> I had gotten the Berlinski because I figured if I were gonna
JB> force my brain into channels it hates, I'd best begin with
JB> a "popularization"-type book, and I was _complying_ with advice
JB> that I improve my understanding, by doing so.
RC> So who was it that hated you enough to suggest Berlinski?
I guess it was me. (*grin*) I saw a blurb in _Science_News_, which I
trust, and bought it.
For me, despite Berlinski's literally awful and self-indulgent story-
telling techniques, his book was _just_ what I needed, to start. I'm
still not finished with it, since when he got into the "hard stuff" and
formulae began to appear more often, I read the text and avoided the
formulae. I have to go back and re-do some of it.
I was (and am) interested primarily in the _underpinnings_of_thought_,
the basic concepts that led to what the calculus is now, not in the
formal math techniques and methodologies that grew from those
fundamental concepts.
For example, I knew, early on in the book, where it reveals that
"infinitesimals" as discrete items were NOT going to be employed, but
rather that I was going to have to go back to hassling with "limits,"
that the book was going to spend most of its time in an area that was
not useful to me. It's much harder to pay attention when the professor
goes off in a direction that can't possibly explain or help with the
concept one enterted the class to find out about in the first place.
You have the same problem. You have not been dealing with what's
inmportant to me to find out about. Like Berlinski, you try to take me
places that do not address the core problem: justifying a geotopology
that starts from _scratch_ with slightly different precepts than those
of 'standard math.' IOW, you're not telling me what I need to know;
you're telling me what _you_think_ I need to know. _I_know_ what I need
to know, and it ain't what you've been telling me so far.
Tetrahedraverse _cannot_operate_ at its fundemental level as any kind of
_continuous_ object. It is _inherently_ discrete at the most
fundamental level. It does cross over, yes, but that's for later. ALL
I need is to find a way to describe T-verse's _origins_ in 'standard'
math terminology, and I only need _that_ to keep math types like you
from hollering "foul!"
JB> I'm sorry that you find this humorous....
RC> There are more serious things in the world than your monstrous
RC> ego, John, and I really don't think that there's much danger here,
RC> given your well-deserved reputation as someone who doesn't really
RC> know what he's talking about, of anyone being harmed irreparably
RC> by any mathematical misinformation you might spread.
No one operating mostly out of his expertise is likely to appear
knowledgeable. "Higher" math is just NOT my forte', nor my interest. I
just find I have no choice but to deal with the damn stuff, in order to
prevent math types from cancelling T-verse's validity _merely_ because I
talk with marbles in my mouth....
JB> Do you think, or not, that in the main (and aside from his
JB> hoirribly overflowered writing style), Berlinski can inform
JB> me, in a simple and basic way, about the underlayments of
JB> the calculus without MISleading me into further error?
RC> More importantly, can you manage not to mislead yourself?
Robert, if the thread I need to follow is there in 'standard' math TO
FOLLOW, I can avoid confusing myself. The issue isn't whether or not I
can understand correctly, it is whether or not what I'm trying to learn
is going to be _useful_ in the specific application I have to mess with.
When Berlinski got beyond the early mention of Leibiz sitting in his
redoubt and squeezing his fingers together, thinking about "the smallest
possible number greater than zero," and when he (Berlinski) led me to
think that he was going to _leave_ an examination of the concept of
infinitesimals and move into the way the calculus gets around it
("limits") without dealing with it directly, I knew he was going off in
a direction not helpful to me. The math I need is a _discrete_ math,
and one that 'naturally' sits in/on a network of vertex order twelve.
IF you think that whatever you have to offer will stay _on_that_path_,
then I'll happily follow your arguments. BUT, if what you're going to
do is require me to learn what _you_ think I need to learn, I'm going to
SEE that you're leading me away from the core issue (just as I saw the
point where Berlinski departed from 'infinitesimals'), and I'll object.
You'll call me names and proclaim my ignorance, and I'll stop bothering.
I can manage not to mislead myself. Can you manage not to confuse "me
misleading myself" with me simply objecting to where the leading is
apparently _going_?
RC> From what I've seen of you over the years -- and I do note anything
RC> touching upon the subject of math that passes my way -- you are
RC> in far more danger from your own crackpotish tendencies than from
RC> even the worst introductory materials. Nothing, no matter how
RC> poorly or how well explained, can positively affect the mind of
RC> a man who has determined in advance the dogma he will believe in.
RC> You appear to be more interested in your pet dogmas than in really
RC> learning about math. Have I misjudged you?
Yes and no. Yes, you have confused a man with a clear, but not very
simple geo-topological entity that he has created from nothing, which
has _specific_ axioms, and which needs to find a correspondence with
'standard math language,' with a man simply refusing to learn what
someone else thinks he should learn; and no, since I have no desire to
learn math for no other reason than to learn math.
(I have no interest in math in general --'math for math's sake'; it does
not excite me like mineralogy, theology, music, and some other things
do. I DO have intense interest in whatever in math can be used to
_describe_ Tetrahedraverse without provoking the sort of commentaries on
my ignorance that this discussion has led you to provide. I seek 'the
proper forms of speech' that seem to be required of me, in order to
speak to the Priesthood.
I think that math can represent reality with astonishing purity.
I do not think that math _IS_ reality.
I cannot, with that stance, 'place DesCarte before the horse.'
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "God has no religion" - Gandhi
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: John-boy's bijection
|Date: 28 Feb 97 12:14:26
EID:49eb 225c61c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 1c93bd19
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3d1
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> a short quote from _Intuitive_Concepts_in_Elementary_Topology_,
JB> by B.H. Arnold:
JB> [p 23]
JB> "In geometry, the movements we are allowed are the rigid motions
JB> (translations, rotations, reflections), . . ." "In topology
JB> [however], the movements we are allowed might be called the
JB> elastic motions."
JB> "However, we must be careful that distinct points in a figure
JB> remain distinct; we are not allowed to force two [p. 24]
JB> different points to coalesce into just one point."
JB> So, I suggest the idea of noncoalescence is clear, in topology.
RC> The idea is that you are not to map two different points onto the
RC> same point. Technically, a topological transformation is bijective.
I agree (I have no idea what "bijective" means). Are you saying, then,
that the above quote refers only to mapping one topological object onto
another, separate, topological object, and NOT necessarily to the points
in the _same_ object? That is, should I interpret it to mean that
points in the same object _can_ coalesce?
Can that be squared with the idea that if they CAN coalesce in any
single object, that object can then be transformed into ANY other object
simply by coalescing ALL the points to one, and then reconstructing
whatever the object wanted is, by UNcoalescing them in whatever order
and direction we care to?
It _seems_, from the quote itself, that he means points in the _same_
object cannot be coalesced (as well, I suppose, as points in two
different objects), since he says "distinct points in __A__ figure..."
[emphasis mine -jb].
Your opinion?
(I note for the record that while T-verse required noncoalescence, and
its 'origin sequence' allowed of nothing less, the above quote was
another one of those made _necessary_ for me to find (long _after_ my
concept had settled in me), in order to shut down the objectors, who,
like you, spent much time and effort impugning my "math knowledge.")
JB> From that, we suggest the concept of closeness. If we are
JB> not allowed to _coalesce_ them, but are allowed to move
JB> them around, then the idea of a minimum closeness before
JB> coalescence is trivially obvious.
RC> Nonsense, John. You may get as close as you like, provided the
RC> distance is greater than ZERO.
I don't see where that's different in principle from what I just said?
How can two equivalent statements devolve to only one of them being
"nonsense?"
(Oh... I reread what I wrote. Sorry. You took my phrase "minimum
closeness" to mean "minimally close," the same as "maximally distant?"
That right? If so, I'm sorry. Again, my horribly imprecise phrasing
gets in the way. The picture was right; the words I used messed it up.
My apologies if that's the case. I _meant_ "the idea of minimum
distance [maximum closeness] before coalescence is trivially obvious."
Is that better?
So, what is the difference between "a minimum closeness before
coalescence" (meaing minimal distance between) and "as close as you
like, provided the distance is greater than ZERO?"
That maximum closeness which is short of coalescence, IS a distance
greater than zero, is it not? (Zero distance IS coalescence.)
NOW can we agree, and agree from a topology _text_ instead of my poor
phrasing?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
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only.
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: John-boy's standard
|Date: 28 Feb 97 12:32:37
EID:975e 225c6400
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 da4a0250
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3d2
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> I hope I have made it clear that it seems to me "standard math"
RC> Perhaps it would help for you to identify just what you are thinking
RC> when you use the phrase "standard math."
That which proceeds from axioms of Euclid, and/or Peano, and which seems
to be what my detractors are arguing from when claiming I can't start
Tetrahedraverse with a single default point, and can't refer to a
"sphere" unless I have a prior metric, and can't -create- a metric from
nothing by means of the above. A huge mathematical Catch-22, in other
words. That which arises from Euclid's circular definitions of
"line"and "point." That math which has been claimed by some over the
years to disallow my specific topological object, solely by means of
these circular axioms and extensions therefrom.
That math which some claim possesses, but which does not in actuality
appear to possess, refutatory arguments against forming this object of
mine from nothing.
That math which took a slightly different direction after Euclid, than
the direction this object seems to take.
That math which some think _precedes_, but imho _follows_from_, super-
fundamental geometric axioms.
(That math which seems to suggest that labels --"numbers"-- precede
objects; that math which seems to claim that the concept "one" precedes
-- is more fundamental than-- the concept "point.")
That math which uses a complex thing as if it were a primary one ("the
empty set").
Lastly, and perhaps most inclusively, that math which limits itself to
the preceptive condition "continuous," rather than discrete.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... WARNING! Evolution may be hazardous to your Ego.
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: John-boy's x=1
|Date: 28 Feb 97 12:53:30
EID:52dd 225c66a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 28dd7026
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3d3
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
JB> Modified: That (separation), less than which, two (x = particles
JB> with the properties of dimensionless points) coalesce and become
JB> one (x).
RC> Two points are one when they are in the same location, John, as
RC> Hector (and perhaps others) already pointed out to you.
As nobody has ever _needed_ to point out to me; as few have been able to
talk about without also implying a background space, since a "location"
is an utterly meaningless concept _without_ a 'space' of some sort to be
a "location" _in_.
RC> Thus, you are asking for a smallest positive number.
No, sir, I am not asking for a "number" AT ALL. This is about _points_,
which are not only "locations" (if in a background), but also 'things-
in-themselves' (if NOT in a background), and which do not carry around
little label-tags with _numbers_ on them, and do not create little
label-tags with numbers on them _between_ them.
(*Sheesh. Can you not imagine a 'thing' without having to stick a damn
_number_ on it?*)
RC> I suggest you stick with the simplest answer, using the integers.
RC> With that restriction to a discrete set, the answer is exactly one.
I long since simply called a point a "one," ("one point") and called
"(dmin)" (that distance less than which two points become one point), a
unit --a "distance of 'one' unit." But it's _arbitrary_. I need a way
to speak of the primary underlying concept, that _justifies_ me doing
that.
Distances less than this are impossible, hence there are no fractions of
(dmin) possible, so this is a _discrete_ entity--"one indivisible unit
of distance." However, distances greater than (dmin) _are_ possible
(trivially obvious), so fractions can be used within a range from (dmin)
to 2*(dmin) (at which distance something too complicated to word takes
place in the compressed spherical network of vertex order twelve).
We (Roger and I, and some others) have no problem _working_with_ this
object. The problem is more fundamental than simply saying "It's THUS!"
(axiomatically). Anybody can do that. All 'standard' math proceeds
from someone hollering "It's THUS," and just going on with what he wants
to do with his "THUS!"
I don't want to do that. It divorces the construct's obviousness from
fundamental philosophical reality --divorces the axioms of the construct
from the claim that it must be _inevitable_ from "nothing," that no
other construct is logically possible.
"Precept must be upon precept." Hollering "THUS!" speaks not a word of
predecessory precept, and that's going to get me nowhere.
We (I) simply desire an acceptable, unarguable, 'mathematically'
nonobjectionable way to say or to write "that (minimum) distance less
than which two points coalesce."
JB> If I am forced to neologisms
RC> You are not forced to coin those hideous creations, John.
You weren't there. It sure came down like that. It was either create a
neologism or waste hour after hour arguing about whether or not my
"point" and the mathematician's/geometer's 'point' were equivalent
enough to let me use the word in text. I just capitulated, and wound up
angering them even more when my neologism "piont" turned out not to be
neologistic ENOUGH. (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 28 Feb 97 13:17:19
EID:528c 225c6a20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2f699129
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3b9fa3d4
On 26 Feb 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RS> [-3][-2][-1][0][+1][+2][+3][+4][+5][+6][+7]
RS> 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
JB> You have to start counting by 'stepping forward' OFF of the
JB> first number in the equation. Not that that's a problem, of
JB> course, but it _is_ 'counter'intuitive.
RC> In my experience playing math games with dozens of children, none
RC> have ever had any trouble with this very intuitive notion, John.
RC> Think of the number blocks being drawn on a sidewalk in chalk,
RC> with kids standing in any integer's box, then counting their steps
RC> to any other box. It works every time.
(You're talking about hopscotch? I don't have a picture of how that
works; too long since.)
JB> We don't count marbles
RC> You've lost your marbles. Count the STEPS.
Give when it's proper to. We do NOT count _things_ in a pile by taking
the first one in our hands, like standing on the first block, and
ignoring it, to count only the _second_ one as "one."
Our argument is about an apparently imperfectly-crossable boundary
between continuous and discrete.
| | | | |
| | | | |
|[ #-1 unit]|[ #1 unit ]|[ #2 unit ]|[ #3 unit ]|
-1 0 1 2 3
| | | | |
There is no "zero [block]"; there _is_ a "'number' zero."
There is no "year zero"; there _is_ a "dividing line at zero."
There is no "infinitesimal called the 'zero inifinitesimal'."
There _is_ a dividing line between the infinitesimal on the left of
zero, and the one on the right, on _either_ the block line OR the
"number line." There is never a "zero _thing_." There is only a
dimensionless zero dividing line between one thing and another thing.
Perhaps that's the crossover concept, and the usefulness of
"infinitesimals": an infinitesimal is as close as it's possible to get,
TO the number line FROM the [blocks] (inifinitesimals) line or vice
versa.
This (above) will be my last position; I can't go any further toward
your way of thinking without bastardizing the 'truth.'
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (G