God Damned Fundies!
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: FAQ!!!!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:28:26
EID:cf5b 22673b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331fc3ab
REPLY: 1:3652/1 331E6B8F
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Mercurii dies March 05 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad ALL:
AG>> I fail to see how a cloned sheep can have anything to do with
AG>> Christianity.
E-V-A-N-G-E-L-I-S-M.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ABRAM GARCIA
|Sub: [2/3] True Christiani
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:06:00
EID:58aa 226470c0
Lynda and Abram were killing time yakking about [2/3] True Christiani:
AG> On Fri 28-Feb-1997 12:19p, Lynda Bustilloz@1:109/1111.0 said to Joe
AG> Shedlock: LB> >>> Part 2 of 3...
LB> 3 Q. Who is a true Christian?
LB> A. A true Christian is he who is baptised, who believes and professes
the
LB> Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.
AG> hello Lynda
AG> couid you please explain this Q and A a bit more to me please?
AG> (go into detail about each of these above process that makes a true
AG> christian)
Hi Abram...the portion you are quoting was, I believe (I no longer have
my
original post in front of me), from a catholic catechism....which pope authored
it doesn't come to mind, but it was in the post.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking....the post was in response to
a
question Joe Shedlock had asked seeking to find the 'root' behind the notion
of there being some creature called a "true christian"....I went looking
and
posted my results, regarding references to the idea of what a true christian
is.
As you may have noted, the answer itself varied depending on who was defining
it. As the above is a Roman Catholic view, I'd imagine the elements are:
baptised, using the Catholic formula. I'm not SURE what the requirements
for
an RC baptism are (or which denominations other than themselves they hold
as
offering valid baptisms), but I'm guessing it involves water, oil, and 'in
the name of the father, son and holy spirit'.
Christian Doctrine in that case likely translates into profession of the
Creeds,
and whatever RC dogmas have been decided to be Doctrine.
And lawful pastors....bet me that means the pope and those bishops and priests
considered legitimate by them.
I suspect, somehow, that you felt I was espousing the definition above rather
than just noting it as an example among many. :) I am not Roman Catholic.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Wish I had some idea of what I'm asking. :-!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:20:00
EID:d670 22647280
Jim and Rod were killing time yakking about My Summer Weekend:
JS> I just looked at your list and responded accordingly...
RS> You are commanded not to judge. I'll have to set a harpy onto
RS> you if you don't behave, Jimson.
*Snort!*
Odd, but you don't LOOK like Zeus....
You're getting ahead of yourself, hellion, if you think you have the power
to command where the harpies aim their attention.
:) No fear, if Jim warrants a visit, he'll get one, but it will be by our
own choosing.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž BRAT: Someone else's kid that behaves like your own.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:29:00
EID:42da 226473a0
Lynda and Jim were killing time yakking about Baby in Critical Conditio:
JS> Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from time
JS> to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the
JS> whole thing and walks away. :)
LB> Wilbur just wants to make sure you aren't talking to the wimmin!
JS> Yeah, well after 30 years she is a bit possessive, ya know. When you
JS> get a good man you don't want to lose same. :)
She got a good man? Aren't you JEALOUS??
Boy, break ONE little leg, and she takes advantage of the opportunity.....
;)
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "May Fortune favor the foolish." -- Kirk
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: return
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:36:00
EID:e4c6 22647480
Lynda and Katherine were killing time yakking about return:
LB>I think Michael would find it much safer in the kitchen where he could
keep
LB>a close eye on what ingredients go into what. However he MUST promise
to
KW> keep
LB>the coffee mugs filled, and not to listen too closely to the gossip.
KW> And not to do that goggle eyed thing. I hate it when he does that.
Well, when a manic cat is gouging into your leg, it's pretty hard to keep
your eyes from bugging out!
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Sponge cake: Dessert made of borrowed ingredients.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Roy Mumaw
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelie
|Date: 06 Mar 97 15:00:16
EID:bf6e 22667800
MSGID: 1:212/2001 330eaaab
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3319b20e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7089
> But how can you be guilty of 'wrongful death' in the case of a
> murderwhen another jury has found you NOT guilty of the murder?
"Wrongful death" is a civil charge while homicide is a criminal charge.
In ¨a criminal case, unless the prosecution ("The State") proves the case
¨"beyond a reasonable doubt" (99%), the defendant _must_ be found "not ¨guilty."
In a civil case, the plaintiff (_not_ the gov't) must only prove ¨that there
is a "proponderance of evidence" (51%) that the defendant did ¨something
wrong. Since criminal cases involve life & liberty, while civil ¨cases
involve "only money," it is not viewed as double jeopardy to have a ¨civil
trial regardless of the outcome of the criminal one. The same ¨reasoning
("only money") also is why the defendant may be forced to ¨testify in civil
cases.
O.J. was hardly the first person put in the position (though he got a lot
¨more press than the others). Juries on the civil trials are more frequently
¨swayed by the fact that the defendant was found "not guilty" during ¨criminal
proceding and are usually reluctant to go against it.
--- InterMail 2.29g
* Origin: Chthonic BBS, Nipomo CA (1:212/2001)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:05:36
EID:a7f8 2266a0a0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f28c6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 2f214e4c
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:39, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB> (*grin*) There're always things outside our expertise, that we either
JB> become interested in, or find that for some reason we must
JB> accommodate. The _latter_ case applies to me.
You can stick to quantum gods, crickets and nightcrawlers and others
can stick with mathematics.
SS> A-+--->> --C--<-+---B
SS>> where A and B approach the limit of C, one from the positive side
SS>> and one from the negative, even if they approached the limit of C
SS>> where the lim A-C =0 and the lim C-B = 0, they would still be two
SS>> distinct points, no matter how close they came.
JB> (Please clarify your symbols: "lim A-C =0" (and lim C-B = 0). Is
JB> that "A minus C," or is that "A-to-C," or "A in closest approach to
JB> C," or what?)
In this example, A is approaching C from the "negative" side of the number
line and B is approaching from the "positive" side. A minus C approaches
the limit of 0 as A gets closer and closer to C.
JB> Waiting clarification but assuming "lim A-C" means "limit of A
JB> approaching B", then:
No it means that A minus C approaches the limit of 0. If A minus C =
0, then A and C would represent one and the same point.
JB> That's 'damned close' to what I need. Now, can you phrase that more
JB> simply (and/or in short-form (symbolically)), and from _what_
JB> authoritative source can you support it? (You have in essence just
JB> said exactly what I've been claiming is the case, but have done so
JB> without the 'standard math source' that justifies it. If you have the
JB> source, PLEASE cite it?)
I'm quoting it from memory, but the calculus text that I quote earlier is
nearby.
JB> Hmm.... "In Tetrahedraverse:
JB> (dmin) = lim [A,B] if lim [A,B] = 0 "
JB> Does that make sense? ARE they still distinct points if the limit has
JB> gone all the way to actually "zero?"
If it "goes all the way" it is no longer a limit, Bait Son.
JB> Doesn't that imply the limit
JB> has disappeared, since zero has been _reached_?
If A-C = zero in my example above, you have only one point.
Sometimes you can't take the limit all the way, John. Here is another
example:
f(x) = (2x+ 3)(x-1)/(x-1) This function is defined for all values except
x= 1 because dividing by zero is a no-no.
What happens if you let x approach the limit of 1? If you do that then
f(x) approaches the limit of 5, but it can never be 5. Never, never,
never.
JB> Are you saying, here, that the concept of limits, used as in standard
JB> calculus, enables me to "correctly" and formally establish both a
JB> noncoalescence axiom and a minimum distance (or separation) axiom?
I haven't seen that Brawleyian terminology in any math book. Study my
example above.
JB> If
JB> so, I will quite readily and with speed unimagined by the denizens
JB> of
JB> this echo, locate it and begin USING it. Do you have a formal
JB> reference, and.....
_The Calculus_ by Louis Leithold was my college textbook in 1968. I have
it right here. Any calculus textbook would state it much the same.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:34:02
EID:28d5 2266a440
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2d3d
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 86b6f696
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:06, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
The reference you were looking for?
SS>> From: Leithold, Lewis, (1968) _The Calculus_, New York, Harper &
SS>> Row Publishers, p.144.
SS>> 6.4.1 Definition. If y = f (x), the instantaneous rate of change
SS>> of y with respect to x at x(1) is the derivative of y with
SS>> respect to x at x(1) if it exists there.
JB> Fine. That's how the calculus _works_. So? You _define_ your way
JB> into correctness, instead of reasoning your way there? How Fundie of
JB> you. (*chuckle*)
What an absolutely stoopid thing to say, Brawley. If you had ever actually
had your nose in a calculus textbook, you would know that such a definition
is preceeded by pages and pages of theorems and proofs.
JB> Does your _mind_ find temporal width to an "instant?" If it does,
JB> then you are correct within your system (or in your understanding of
JB> another system). If your mind does NOT find temporal width to an
JB> "instant," you will have to find another system with which to justify
JB> your stance.
Are you begging the question, Bait Boy? In calculus, the derivative of
a
function is defined as an instantaneous rate of change.
This is a basic and fundamental concept.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:47:17
EID:56b9 2266a5e0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2eb7
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 cdb3cedc
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:13, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
SS> SS>>> lim x ===> infinity is no less efficient in coming close
SS> SS>>> to infinity than lim x ===> 0 is to coming close to 0
SS>> Did you understand this, or did the volley sail clear?
JB> I understood it. It's "mathematically correct," as far as it goes.
JB> It does not go to conceptual sensibility. Infinity, as a totally
JB> unbounded concept,
Infinity is limited to mathematics, John.
JB> is not conceptually the same as zero, which is a
JB> final, _small_ bound. The conceptual quality of the mind grasps
JB> 'zero' as a final limit, but not infinity as an _open_ 'limit.' The
JB> internal-subjective meaning of "limit" is different: to _limit_ by
JB> zero is intuitive; a "closure" can be imagined. To _limit_ by
JB> infinity is an oxymoron.
Are you trying to erect a straw man, or simply stating that infinity
is bigger than zero?
SS> SS>>> How shocking. Mathematically, I can push the limit equally
SS> SS>>> in either direction.
JB>> Mathematically, you can. You must have missed the difference
JB>> between "math" and "reality." "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit
JB>> more easily than can "infinity." In imaging, zero _stops_
JB>> thought, but 'infinity' does not. (Can not.)
SS> SS>>> lim x/1 as x -+-> infinity = lim 1/x as x -+-> 0
infinity = infinity
To complete the equation.
JB> Infinity is addable-to, yet remains infinity, as some here have been
JB> so self-congratulatory for presenting, but zero is NOT addable-to (nor
JB> subractable-from) without completely eradicating it.
SS> SS>>> You're debunked, Bait Son.
JB>> I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
JB>> (Thank God for small favors.)
You are also battling a straw man. The only point that you are making
is that an infinitly large number is larger than zero.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:55:48
EID:1d6c 2266a6e0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2fa6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 361d586c
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 17:16, quoting John Brawley to Rod Swift:
RS>> Oh, is this the Quantum Bait Shop? I'm sorry, I wanted the local
RS>> branch of the Bank of America.
JB> No, it isn't the Quantum Bait Shop. Worrell runs that.
Worrell runs bait shop #7. Get it right.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:27:01
EID:d683 22661360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2b75
-> On 04 Mar 97 11:02:52, Judith Bandsma got back to Jim Staal
JS> Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on some street
JB> worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot...on crutches.
It
JB> You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here but you
JB> can't even do something I did.
That's because you are a woman and Staal is, well ... Staal.
... +Origin: MAUDLIN! NETWORK: Whining and crying for Jesus Christ!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:30:10
EID:6231 226613c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2c32
-> On 04 Mar 97 01:18:30, Judith Bandsma got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
JB> Godzilla Meets Abbott and Costello, maybe?
Very unlikely, it's _Bambi Meets Godzilla_
BTW, it's a real movie, or rather, cartoon. It's a must-see.
... A "died-again" Satanist? I _like_ it, I _like_ it!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Charles Creager
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:45:47
EID:801a 226615a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2fdb
-> On 01 Mar 97 15:58:01, Charles Creager got back to Katherine Wintersnight
CC>
CC> ... Trust your neighbors, but brand your cattle.
CC> -!- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
CC> ! Origin: The Cat House BBS - Greer, SC (FIDONET 1:3639/88)
Got your underwear bunched up too tight, Charlie?
That's all that came through in that message.
... Ad Hoc, Ad Nauseum and Ad Hominen: the Holy Trinity of Stringfellow
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Charles Creager
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:56:38
EID:801a 22661700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e3266
-> On 01 Mar 97 16:11:02, Charles Creager got back to Katherine Wintersnight
CC> I do not know whether you or someone else is the originator of the
CC> following quote, but I found it on your message. KW> * OLXWin 1.00a
*
CC> "God is an asshole"--MB
You're new to this, aren't you?
It's a tagline, Chuckie. And, do fix your OLR.
CC> I really feel sorry for the person or persons
CC> that speak of God in that manner.
Which God? There are just so many to choose from.
CC> I feel sorry for them because they
CC> will have to answer to that God.
Fuck that God. There are many nicer, kinder Gods out there if
you feel the need to believe in a God. All other Gods are a
step above the Gods that your deathcult worships.
CC> not to neglect the salvation that God has provided through His Son,
CC> Jesus Christ (Cf. Hebrews 2:3). Whether or not you have done so, I
do
Isn't he the one that was supposed to come "back in this generation"?
You know, the generation that was over about 2,000 years ago?
CC> what I have read that YOU have written), then you are headed for a
CC> Godless enternity. Don't say that you will have many friends there.
There is much to be said about that that is very appealing.
CC> There you will have NO friends. I am your friend, because I am
CC> concerned for your soul.
So, in fiendship[sic], you attempt to consign her to hell. Right
neighborly of you. What do you do for your next trick? Threaten
her with your most powerful God, Satan?
CC> ! Origin: The Cat House BBS - Greer, SC (FIDONET 1:3639/88)
I'm sure you visit it often, wearing your trenchcoat and a large
hat to hide your face.
... Bad news, Charles. I sold your soul to the devil.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 06 Mar 97 03:30:35
EID:d973 22661bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e3a5b
-> On 05 Mar 97 15:36:28, Don Martin got back to Judith Bandsma
JB> Wiley PAST? At the Post? Oh dear, dare I look?
DM> Only us old farts remember one-eyed pilots, Bandsma . . .
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
Wasn't it Will Rogers?
... +Origin: Prostitutes Network! Laying laymen for the Lawrd!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: flood
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:33:38
EID:475b 22670c20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7072
-> On 05 Mar 97 07:08:08, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Talked to a guy the other day on what may be this very
DC> topic:
BH> I also find the existance of quick frozen woolly mammoths quite a
BH> wonder.
DM> I do not doubt that you do.
Well, there are an awful lot of mastodon finds around this
area. They literaly fall out of the cliff near the Dungeness
Spit.
DC> His thesis was: "If it wasn't already very cold, why where
DC> the mammoths woolly?"
DM> Ah, many and varied are the chat topics in Sequim. Did
DM> he also find them "quite a wonder" (Clap hands and sing!)?
No, he was far too intelligent to be a fundy. As it was, he
gave me some good advice with dealing with the local school
board. However, I'm not sure if anyone has that much C-4
and no one real knows how far it is to hell and back,
though he felt that at least a one way ride would be good.
... The principle business of life is to enjoy it!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:35:49
EID:2236 22670c60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f70f5
-> On 05 Mar 97 09:47:34, Jim Staal got back to ROBERT CURRY
RC> Children do not bear the sins of their parents. Ezekiel, chapter 18.
JS> Doesn't negate Rom 3:23. They do bear the sin of Adam.
That's your founder, Saul speaking. Your supposed founder
said, "I came not to remove a single dot or tittle of the law."
Face it Jimbo, you follow the religion started by a charlatan.
... Religion n. Bullshit couched in lies.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:43:40
EID:0002 22670d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f72cc
-> On 04 Mar 97 05:56:25, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> "the one he loved". If it is given Jesus loves us all, then a
RS> special mention about this very special relationship with a very
JS> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone.
JS> (Rom 9:13 NIV) Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I
JS> hated."
Thank you for pointing out that your omni-benevolent god
isn't, Jimbo. You should feel proud that you showed your
god to be a bigot and a fucking son of a bitch.
... Messiah looking for jailbait = Jesus of Swaggart.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:46:54
EID:0002 22670dc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f738e
-> On 05 Mar 97 06:20:16, Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander
SA> I understand) expected men to marry. Why did he not then marry, but
SA> not have "relations" with his wife?
JS> Very simple: He didn't marry because, as scripture points out many
JS> many times, the church is His bride. He didn't have offspring in order
That's Saul's dogma that you follow, Jimbo. You keep forgetting
about the "not change a dot or tittle" that was said by your
godling. Is Saul more powerful than your golding?
... +Origin: PAUL HILL, NETWORK! Killing people for an all-loving Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lower
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:01:48
EID:0a72 22671020
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f770c
-> On 04 Mar 97 06:50:39, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
JS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer is a better
JS> role model than a lesbian???
Just when I thought you couldn't sink lower than the bottom
of the cesspool, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
You are one big piece of shit, Staal.
... "I dont't think that Jesus would have gone for this shit." M Glodberg
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Reality 101.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:03:30
EID:c546 22671060
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7772
-> On 06 Mar 97 04:41:12, Laurie Appleton got back to Jan Deboer
JD> strolling around Mt. St. Helens with "former President
JD> Harry Truman" a decade AFTER Truman died?
LA> As I have pointed out it was Harry Truman and myself that
LA> were looking for John Musselwhite, who wanted to find
You must have had a great talk with him, knowing that you
were talking with the former Prez.
... "Facts we ignore today. The lies we make up take a bit longer" ICR
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:09:49
EID:32f4 22671120
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f78ed
-> On 05 Mar 97 09:21:11, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> check out the mirror.
DC> Try it yourself, asswipe. Judith is the lady you always
DC> wanted to be.
JS> Lady? Lady? Wilbur is a lady. Judith is an obnoxious woman.
Keep stomping your feet, Jimbo. It's fun to watch you attempt
to communicate with the women in here that don't take bullshit
from you. I'm sure your Wilbur has to put kitty litter underneath
your chair everytime you attempt to go one-on-one with a
female superior.
BTW, a helpful hint: By it in 50# bags. Better yet, you
could do yourself better if you bought it by the pallet-load.
... Exodus 21:7-11 Female servants are sex slaves.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:38:00
EID:9cd0 226714c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7f88
-> On 04 Mar 97 10:11:00, Lynda Bustilloz got back to JOHN BRAWLEY
JB> |[-3]|[-2]|[-1]|[+1]|[+2]|[+3]|
JB> | | | | | | |
JB> -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3
LB> You mean....make each number a marker between sets of one block each?
LB> Did you not JUST argue the 'nonintuitiveness' of that?
LB> In your set of blocks...the +1 block represents the NUMBER +1,
LB> right?...and the block marked -1 represents the NUMBER -1? Then why
LB> would you NOT have a block representing the NUMBER zero?
Gee, Lynda, for someone that is so mathematically 'incompetent',
you seem to have noticed the "minor" descrepancy in John's
very personal number line. In fact, your daughter already
knows how to handle numbers down to ZERO.
LB> ... If you can't hack it, then pick up your marbles and go home.
Leaving you with ZERO of his marbles on the table!
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:42:51
EID:bf5b 22671540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f80ab
-> On 04 Mar 97 12:36:34, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
MO>> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub there.
DC> If there ain't we'll open one, charging a hefty fee at the door
DC> for the xians that are trying to sneak in for a cold one.
MO> Mate, we'll make a fortune. We'll ahve to keep a reserve of make-up
on
MO> hand for the Tammy-Faye's as well. That'd be pretty lucrative too IMO.
Lucrative?!??!!! It would be the mother lode!
... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago tune of the Beast.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:45:23
EID:4fbf 226715a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8143
-> On 04 Mar 97 22:32:04, David Worrell got back to Jim Staal
JS> ... In my Father's house are many mansions. - John 14:2
DW> I wonder if you're going to be allowed to keep old, dead cars up on
DW> blocks in your yard in Heaven.
That's where his god is parked, isn't it?
BTW, the EPA is going to fine him for all that blood that
the old wreck is spilling into the envirnonment.
... "El O'him: God is an Irish Mexican." J.j. Hitt
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Have enough already, dickbrain?
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:54:08
EID:48cb 226716c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8350
-> On 05 Mar 97 00:54:04, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> G'day, Mark. (See, I can talk in Aussie, too!)
MO> :-) Next thing we know you'll be guzzling beer, throwing seafood on
MO> the barby and pretending you have no sexual interest in sheep.
Beer's good. So are BBQ'd clams. As to sheep: Is it sexual
to like a good leg of one?
MO> [Abram Garcia]
MO> *** To : Almaz
MO> *** Subj: nu-bible.txt
> Did you know the majority of agnostics are athiests? I didn't.
--------
I take it Almazed was really amazed at that.
Really, do be nice to him and con, err..., convice him that
he has to post here.
... `Faith' means not wanting to know what is true.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:59:15
EID:1472 22671760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8483
-> On 04 Mar 97 15:50:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
DC> DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
DC> DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
DC> DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
DC> KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
DC>She could always bring home the pigs' feet instead.
KW> I hadn't thought about that aspic.
And, having done that, it all jelled together, I'm sure.
... Only an atheist can be a good Christian. - Ernst Bloch
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 07 Mar 97 03:04:24
EID:e254 22671880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f85b8
-> On 05 Mar 97 01:41:32, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
MO> [The Pope/Polish descent]
MO>> I've pondered that on occasion myself. Time to do a little research
DC> Strange, O'Neil doesn't sound Polish...
MO> It's Irish. But I can't see how it matters.
However, it's why I'm pissed!
DC> However, I do think that the Vatican is on the web. Not
MO> Well, it is on there. I got the address off somebody in here
Find anything good?
MO> there is a large gif of the pope and that's about it. You'd think that
MO> as the head of the catholic church they'd at least have a decent
MO> webpage.
It's modern technology. The RCC tries its best to ignore
it for as long as it can. The, like with Galileo, it
pardons them for the truth 400 years later.
... "Galileo is wrong!": RCC, "Sit on it an rotate!" Galileo
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:33:00
EID:5d7a 22665c20
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331ef1bc
MB>On (03 Mar 97) Judith Bandsma babbled to Marilyn Burge...
Marilyn Burge said, in a huffy tone of voice, to RIC CARTER <=-
MB> Fundies may subconsciously make the choice to be braindead.
JB> Uh, don't they do that consciously?
MB>If you're braindead, you aren't conscious. Or haven't you
MB>noticed that trait in the fundies we get here -- the cream
MB>of the crop, as it were.
'Fundy' as defined and used in this Conference seems to
include anyone who believes in God. That includes a very
wide spectrum of beliefs indeed. So, the 'cream of the crop'
of fundies turning up here is highly unlikely. For that
would include some very highly educated people from a wide
variety of disciplines.
Now if you mean 'fundy' in the sense of one who subscribes
to inerrancy of the Bible, Jesus as the Only Way, etc. That
is another story and automatically narrows the list.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * I can't even *find* amok, let alone run one.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Accepting Reality
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:15:02
EID:b925 226669e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f09a6
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
SQ> Watch how rational the fundies become when you start
SQ>telling them that the Book of Mormon is factual. :)
JH>I have. And the Koran. Since a friend of mine FINALLY
JH>found out a few weeks ago about my beliefs (or lack thereof),
JH>he's made an on-and-off attempt to convert me. He quickly
JH>realized that he was overmatched. He can't understand why
JH>I keep smiling and laughing when he's talking about Hell. :->
JH>"What can I say, I'M EVIL!!"
Yah. Some of us go berserk when you start telling us either
the Book of Mormon or the Koran are factual. Well, perhaps
most of us. What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!"
BTW, do you try to convert your fundy friend to your
viewpoint? I mean, if he has figured he is overmatched...
well, there is your opportunity.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Did you get my memo about the squid-tossing contest?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:32:04
EID:8e4e 22666c00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f0da4
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Jason Harmon <=-
JH>I trust you never hug, kiss, flirt, dance, and/or hold hands
JH>with a woman in public. After all, you said above no one needs
JH>to advertise their sexual orientation.
KY>That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically
KY>try to advance a pro gay agenda.
JH>That's advertising a political philosophy. And what do you
JH>mean by "pro gay agenda"? Wanting to be treated like normal
JH>people? Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
JH>all eternity?
Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
eternity would not be part of it. The Bible says those who
practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Did you take a shower? There seems to be one missing...
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: You Forgot To Answer
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:40:06
EID:4ca2 22666d00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f0f86
-=> Quoting Ken Young <=-
KY>All the proof [of a god's existance-- dr] I need is that
KY>we are here. At least until, someone can provide me a
KY>better explanation of how we originally got here.
DR>What you are saying is that your belief is based upon merely
DR>ignorance. That is, you do not understand a process therefore
DR>you attribute the process to the will of the gods.
He is easily persuaded. Some are. Some are not. The processes
involved in our getting here is an interesting topic.
Recently a Professor of Biochemistry at Lehigh University
wrote a book saying the complexity of biochemical processes
and entities lead him to the conclusion of intelligent
design as the answer. "Darwin's Black Box" by Michael J.
Behe. I for one would like to see a detailed critique of
that book by another biochemist who comes to different
conclusions.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Urinalysis: The study of Pissed-Off People.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: No Good Things
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:44:08
EID:e642 22666d80
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f1078
>For the most part, atheists simply do not do good and
>ethical things.-- Jesse C. Jones (the fundy has no clothes)
DR>Real Life imitates HOLYSMOKE:
DR>Saturday I went down to Minney's Ship Chandlery looking
DR>for a storm jib and some chain. Outside I parked next to a
DR>station wagon that was heavily burdened with various
DR>"JESUS IS LORD" stickers, including my ever-favorate "Real
DR>Men Love Jesus." While I was hauling 160 feet of 1/4-inch
DR>chain out of a barrel, I noticed there was a US$20.00 bill
DR>on the ground behind someone who was standing at the
DR>cashier. Since he had a fist full of money, I assumed the
DR>bill was his so I picked it up, got his attention, and
DR>handed the twenty dollars to him.
DR>"Oh!" he yelped. He took the bill while issuing such
DR>insults as "God Bless you, the lord bless you!" (in a Ned
DR>Flanders voice) at me. He then asked me when I was
DR>"saved," aparently believing me to be a co-fundy. Of
DR>course I assumed a pretensed expression of non-
DR>understanding and told him I have yet to be shipwreaked.
DR>He said "No, no, no, no, I mean when did Jesus save you?"
DR>When I said I was atheist, he took one step backwards and
DR>said "You're kidding, right?" I insisted I was not. He
DR>then looked at the twenty dollar bill I had returned to
DR>him as if it were a snake, then looked back at me and
DR>asked me why I did not keep the money I had found. I told
DR>him it didn't belong to me. He looked vastly confused and
DR>very upset--- maybe even angry.
Nah. Couldn't be (lower jaw dropping to the floor).
Well, I'll be damned! It can happen.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * ......................Cut Along Dotted Line..............
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Bible Quotes
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:52:10
EID:cd65 22666e80
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f125a
LB>Lynda and Roger were killing time yakking about BIBLE QUOTES:
RH>So tell me, Bryson, do you follow the Levitical laws? Does Harvey
RH>Smith over on Cult Watch know you are using his cult name?
LB>Oh MAN...I haven't thought about Harvey in years....is he still
LB>around??
RH>Dunno. I quit reading Cult Watch when he booted me for being
RH>irreverent. (I asked him how YHVH was any better than Hitler.)
LB>*chuckle* Harvey was the first to really zero in on the false
LB>christian scumminess of my beliefs....I was obviously of the
LB>devil because I engage in positive DISCUSSION with the pagans
LB>there instead of blasting them.I recall one delightful tirade
LB>where I was a "whited sepulcher", leading them to hell myself
LB>with my irrational idea that god wasn't pissed off at them.
LB>I think I was getting close to getting booted...most of the pagans
LB>I was talking to already had been, but I moved away from Phoenix
LB>about then, never picked the echo back up once I got here.
Harvey is still around. He and at least one other fellow moderate
the Fido Open Bible Conference. I don't know if Cult Watch is
still around. I don't even remember if Cult Watch was or is a
Fido echo. I think it was a Family Net Conference. The Board I
used to pick that one up on is now gone. BBS's are closing
down one right after the other these days. It seems many are
heading for the Internet Newsgroups instead. People who
complain about the volume on HolySmoke ought to try some
of those Newsgroups.
Harvey is pretty strict. Always has been. There were a few
times I almost got booted from one or another of the
Conferences he moderates and I'm a pretty strict fundy
myself.
There is one fellow on the Rime Religion Conference I
keep telling to come over to Holysmoke. He would fit in
perfectly here. He hates fundies and loves to make fun
of them. But the restrictions on that Conference smother
his evil propensities in that direction. Oh well, maybe
someday he will...
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * "Hex Dump" - Where Witches put used Curses?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 15:15:12
EID:6eee 226679e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f25d0
DG>About bigotry being authorized by the Bible: Cite me a
DG>"Thou shalt a bigot" from the Bible.
DM>"Happy is he who dashes the brains of your little ones upon the
DM>stones" serves pretty well as an indication that Babylonians were
DM>not _quite_ on a par with the Chosen Race. While it does not
DM>explicitly enunciate a _rule_ of bigotry, it is, I think,
DM>sufficiently bigoted to satisfy most Nazis.
The quote comes from Psalm 137:9. You can only come to the
conclusion you do by leaving out critical details. The
writer of those sentiments was a captive in Babylon at
the time this was written. The sentiments expressed were
a reaction to how the Babylonians had treated the Hebrew
children when they took Israel captive. The sentiments
expressed hardly constitute bigotry in such a situation.
Unless, of course, you would be willing to carry the label
"bigot" for feeling like someone who had dashed your baby's
head against the rocks should get the same in return.
Sheesh! And they call fundies brain-dead.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * This message has been approved by the Illuminati.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:42:14
EID:25b3 22668540
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3a36
LB>Unless you're talking to Jim Staal - then the baby is going
LB>to hell if mama isn't saved.
MG>Babies are totally innocent. Why do any of them need to go
MG>to hell?
JS> None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin.
JS> Romans 3:23.
RC>Children do not bear the sins of their parents.
RC>Ezekiel, chapter 18.
RC>Perhaps you might try reading other parts of that bible you thump,
RC>Jimbo. Or have you decided that Ezekiel chapter 18 is not really a
RC>part of your bible?
Perhaps you should also try reading other parts of the Bible.
Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never
being held against the sons. Moses, on the other hand,
in Exodus 20:5 has in view the consequences of the fathers
sins. Psalm 51:5 says that even from birth man is polluted
with sin. Psalm 58:3 confirms the same, as does Ephesians
2:3 and many other passages. Take your own advice. Read
the Bible thoroughly on this subject. Get yourself a good,
comprehensive concordence and trace the topic thru the
Bible.
RC>Even better than babbling bible verses, try thinking for
RC>a change.
Add to thinking thorough study of your subject before
commenting on it.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Pascal programmers do it with indentations.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:49:16
EID:9267 22668620
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3bdc
JS>I do know that Jesus Christ promised, approximately 2,000
JS>years ago that He would return...and He will. Trust me.
RC>While you're waiting, would you be interested in buying a
RC>bridge?
2 Pet 3:3-9
3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will
come with {their} mocking, following after their own lusts,
4and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For {ever}
since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was
from the beginning of creation."
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by
the word of God {the} heavens existed long ago and {the} earth
was formed out of water and by water,
6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded
with water.
7But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved
for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly
men.
8But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that
with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years
as one day.
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for
all to come to repentance.
(NAS)
Isn't it wonderful being a part of fulfilled prophecy?
cc: to Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * "Any fool can be a skeptic." -- R.C. Sproul
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Mar 97 17:04:20
EID:2a74 22668880
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3f64
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Marilyn <=
JS>Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on
JS>some street corner with strangers.
JB>The rest of us work for a living. Your begging in the echo
JB>makes you about 6 steps lower than the people you bitch about
JB>who are drawing welfare.
JB>Go get a job, Jim. And don't give me 'can't work on crutches'
JB>cause I worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot
JB>...on crutches. It might not have been easy but I did it.
JB>You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here
JB>but you can't even do something I did.
For once I fully agree with one who does not profess to be a
christian over against one who does. I find that very highly
commendable that you worked at the Holiday Inn with a broken
foot. I see no basis for a christian to beg if they are at all
able to work.
I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
summer. But the company had gone thru two owners during the
time I was out. I've been looking for work actively since,
sending out my resume to prospective employers, going for
interviews, improving my computer skills. Heck, on top of
this I've done odd jobs doing maintenance and upkeep on
people's computers. There are so many people who buy
computers who know next to nothing about them. I've
even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
unchristian thing to do.
cc: Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * If it's too loud, you're too old.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 06 Mar 97 17:21:22
EID:0f79 22668aa0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f4362
JS>So then, what [do you] find disgusting in the Bible? I find the tr
JS>to be exciting myself. Everytime I read through scripture, it beco
JS>alive and new all over again.
DH>It was Paul of course, No Jesus, who deified Christ as the
DH>messiah. Jesus never claimed to be the only son of god, not
DH>the messiah, nor the king of the jews, save for a flippant
DH>answer to Pilate that never acknowledged Chris's opinion.
You haven't read the Gospels very carefully, have you?
Well, for starters how about this? Note it is not from
Paul or from Jesus dialog with Pilate:
John 4:25-26
25The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming
(He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will
declare all things to us."
26Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am {He."}
(NAS)
Guess what? Paul was not the only one to call
Jesus Messiah. Nor was Paul the only one to
deify Jesus the Messiah. Note further:
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing
came into being that has come into being.
(NAS)
John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld
His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full
of grace and truth.
(NAS)
John 8:58-59
58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham
was born, I am."
59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid
Himself, and went out of the temple.
(NAS)
If you think Paul was the only one who called Jesus Messiah
and deified Him you have a whole lot of study in the New
Testament you are going to have to do. The above passages
are just to whet your appetite.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Stand like a beaten anvil. S. Ignatius
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:32:18
EID:8859 22669c00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f6212
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Marilyn <=
JS>Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on
JS>some street corner with strangers.
JB>The rest of us work for a living. Your begging in the echo
JB>makes you about 6 steps lower than the people you bitch about
JB>who are drawing welfare.
JB>Go get a job, Jim. And don't give me 'can't work on crutches'
JB>cause I worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot
JB>...on crutches. It might not have been easy but I did it.
JB>You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here
JB>but you can't even do something I did.
For once I fully agree with one who does not profess to be a
christian over against one who does. I find that very highly
commendable that you worked at the Holiday Inn with a broken
foot. I see no basis for a christian to beg if they are at all
able to work.
I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
summer. But the company had gone thru two owners during the
time I was out. I've been looking for work actively since,
sending out my resume to prospective employers, going for
interviews, improving my computer skills. Heck, on top of
this I've done odd jobs doing maintenance and upkeep on
people's computers. There are so many people who buy
computers who know next to nothing about them. I've
even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
to make money on my own. I find that a decidedly
unchristian thing to do.
cc: Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * If it's too loud, you're too old.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: book of interest
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:09:38
EID:2d52 22670920
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6b91
PID: GED3 2.5
Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy
Frederick Clarkson
Common Courage Press/Login, dist.
1 Red Barn Road, Monroe, ME 04951
1-56751-088-4 $15.95 (pb) 1-56751-089-2 $29.95 (hc) 1-800-243-0138
Frederick Clarkson's Eternal Hostility provides a chilling road map to a
growing movement whose roots go back to the founding days of the country.
Clarkson asks the reader to consider what it would be like if having an
abortion was punishable by death, if gays and lesbians were thrown into
jail, or if our constitutional rights were replaced by biblical law. In
a stunning analysis, Clarkson debunks the "objective" bestseller Culture
Wars to reveal a tract written by a rightwing church elder. Chastising
liberals and the left for failing to recognize the depth of the threat to
liberty, Clarkson argues that we must develop a coherent response to a well-organized
effort aimed at overthrowing democracy. When he exposes the aims and strategies
of such diverse Christian zealots as the "Promise Keepers" and the Unification
Church of Sun Myung Moon, remember that it was Clarkson who first to exposed
the Christian Coalition's plans to take over the Republican Party, plans
which have largely succeeded in several states and was actually seen as
it was acted out on television in the 1996 Texas Republic Convention. Clarkson
was also the first to expose how elements of the Christian Right were encouraging
the formation of citizen "militias" almost five years before the Oklahoma
City bombing propelled the militia movement into general public awareness.
Eternal Hostility is a warning bell in the night and is essential reading
for any secular humanist or freethinker needing to be aroused from a complacency
that "it can't happen here" -- because it has, it is, and it may well succeed
if enough good men do nothing to stop it.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
The Midwest Book Review is an organization dedicated to the encouragement
of literacy and the promotion of community library useage. All MBR reviewers
are volunteers. No funding is accepted from any publisher or author. Most
of the books receiving our recommendation are available through your local
public library, either directly or through the inter-library loan service.
Full permission is granted to anyone wishing to forward any or all of our
reviews to thematically appropriate internet discussion groups, newsgroups,
or listserves.
Your comments can be sent by email to any of the addresses listed below.
You are also invited to visit the MBR website. Please request our "Reviewer
Guidelines" if you would like to add your own reviews to the MBR website.
Midwest Book Review
James A. Cox, Editor-in-Chief
Diane C. Donovan, Editor
278 Orchard Drive, Oregon, WI 53575
1-608-835-7937
mbr@execpc.com
mwbookrevw@aol.com
http://www.execpc.com/~mbr/bookwatch/
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: help
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:18:35
EID:608f 22670a40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6d0e
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 330da02e
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 00:45, Don Martin wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> you were the original poster. If you've still got it, could you
DW>> send a copy to azirafel@concentric.net?
DM> Being extremely vain about my productions here, I take great
DM> pleasure in sending the file. (You probably already have it by the
DM> time you read this.)
Indeed I did. Judging from the date on this message, you got caught in that
time warp.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: US CyberCensor Law
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:19:29
EID:3042 22670a60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6d49
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1e879a4d
PID: GED3 2.5
02 Mar 97 08:29, Fredric Rice wrote to David Worrell:
>> Seen any TANKS lately?
FR> Remember the one here in San Diego that was stollen and
FR> then run down residential streets and the freeways while a thousand
FR> cops (and their dogs) chased after it utterly incapable of stopping
FR> it?
Yep. I saw that one on TV. Funniest shit I've seen on TV in a long time.
FR> This Perker right-wing extremist lunatic wants to be another George
FR> Mooth.
He wants a TANK of his very own.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:21:24
EID:8d82 22670aa0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6da7
REPLY: 1:229/622 331d6f06
PID: GED3 2.5
05 Mar 97 13:03, Judith Bandsma wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Heh. I wonder if you can change the sex of a clone? That might be
DW>> the best way to find a woman I can get along with. :)
JB> The likeliest end of that scenario would have us attending the funeral
JB> of both of you. Do YOU really think you could live with...-you-?
Indeed I could. :)
I do every day, after all.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 05 Mar 97 09:55:09
EID:7f32 22654ee0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 7de2c3d1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331ad4e1
On 03 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> DC>>> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
DW> JB>> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're,"
DW> DW>> Are you claiming that the word "your" in the above should be
DW> DW>> replaced with "you're?"
DW> DW>> Are you *really* saying this?
DW> DW>> Who ya gonna call black next, Mr. Pot?
JB> Quote the whole message, in which it's obvious in the _previous_
JB> comment from him, he used "your" for "you're."
DW> Your wish is my command.
Not likely. Now, are you _blind_? Look down 11 lines:
DW> === Cut ===
DW> Ä Holysmoke (1:123/67.7) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ HOLYSMOKEÄ
DW> Msg : 4233 of 5249 +4298
DW> From : John Brawley 1:100/435.1 25 Feb 97 10:34:18
DW> To : Dan Ceppa 28 Feb 97 02:33:34
DW> Subj : Ceppa - Holographic
DW> ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DW> On 23 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> Your right. I should have said the the Moon is made out of
.....****
See this?
DC> Green Cheese -OR- Blue Cheese to keep your analogy intact.
JB> That's better. Ludicrous, but better.
DC> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
DW> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're," typos "in" rather
DW> than "is" and doesn't proofread/correct, and thinks "better" implies
DW> "accurate?" Who handed out _your_ degree?
DW>
DW> === Cut ===
JB> (Mr. Sophist David, _sir_.)
DW> Yes, John? Are you gonna blame this mistake on Berlinski, too?
No, I'm gonna blame it either on Dan (see the '....****'), or on your
_own_ thought that the case noted isn't incorrect.
I congratulate you on your honesty. You must have missed seeing the
instance of "your" noted above, that was what I referred to in my
"English major" comment. That, or else you yourself are one of those
who uses the word incorrectly. I give you the benefit of the doubt.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Its a dogma-eat-dogma world!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:03:54
EID:5474 22655060
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 449954e1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331ade70
On 03 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 01 Mar 97 11:49, John Brawley wrote to Katherine Wintersnight:
JB> Hence the specific word "Quantum?" Really.
JB> Face it Katherine; _Worrell_ runs the "bait shop"; he's just using my
JB> name on it without paying a royalty,
DW> My legal staff is still waiting on your lawsuit.
DW> They're getting rather bored, in fact. I think I'm going to have them
DW> paint my house while we're waiting.
When you get bored _enough_, take my name outta your origin line.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... The most difficult thing to open is a closed mind.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: geometry
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:05:50
EID:dae4 226550a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2dd33bd6
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fb
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> Oh, you don't want to start _that_ shit here, do you?
JS> why? did you fail calculus too? or just grade 2 math?
JB> A's in geometry, D's in algebra. Go figger. I have a top-notch
JB> visualizer-conceptualizer, and an abominable abstracter, in the
JB> same brain.
RC> Everyone is different. So are you familiar with the five regular
RC> convex polyhedra? Sometimes called the Platonic Solids. Then there
RC> are four more regular polyhedra, though not convex, which are
RC> named the Archimedean Solids. How are you at visualizing objects
RC> such as these?
I can doubtless visualize them all. I don't recall them from memory,
since I don't use my memory to store things I can easily find in books.
I can even _almost_ visualize a tesseract (hypercube). Now, let's
see.... from faulty memory, the platonic solids(sides) are
tetrahedron(4), hexahedron(6), cube(8), dodecahedron(12), and
icosahedron(20)? (I'm guessing about the last two.) I don't know what
the Archimedean solids are, but know that if seeing a picture, I'd be
able to see them without the picture.
You recall those spatial relations tests in school? The ones where they
show you an object, and ask which of four images is the same object
rotated? I do that without error; it's easy. Imaging complex (not TOO
complex) >2d objects is 'natural' to me, and I'm good at it. I am NOT
good at looking at math formulae and grasping them. They generally do
not create pictures in my mind. (Some do; I have little trouble
converting simple formulae like E=mc^2 or E=hv into "pictures," but
formulae that involve nonexistent or ludicrous concepts, used for
nothing but labelling (such as the square root of minus one), and which
cannot be converted into imagery without weeks of struggle, just escape
me altogether.
I trust my 'visualizer-conceptualizer,' and even when it yields a wrong
image, it's easy to correct. I do not trust what I can't visualize.
Hence, I can argue and maintain accuracy for the geometry/topology of
this 'Tetrahedraverse' thing of mine (correctly), and appear to be
egotistical and arrogant for doing so, while at the same time making
horrible mistakes with non-picturable, non-visualizable "mathematics."
A guy who hasn't much trouble understanding a tesseract, but who
couldn't describe one in formulaic math symbols if his life depended on
it, may appear a contradiction in terms, but I assure you there IS a
difference.
RC> If that comes naturally, then you might consider taking a shot at
RC> visualizing the six regular convex polytopes in four dimensions.
RC> Two of these are pretty easy for me, but the others not nearly so.
Any 3D solid is easily turned through the fourth dimension, creating a
sort of "worm" in spacetime, or creating a sort of multiple-copy
"shadow" (or inverting the shadow so that it is the 3D and the 4D is the
object casting it), but the more complex the object (the greater the
number of sides, edges, and vertices), the harder it is, of course.
I don't quite know what you mean by "polytope." I've only seen the word
once, recently, by accident, when visiting the /graphics/ subdirectory
of Washington U.'s mainframe in search of POV-Ray accessory programs.
One thing that helps _me_ with _math_, but probably would not help with
a "visual," is that (I recently discovered) "dimensions" higher than one
are done _mathematically_ merely by sticking on more coordinates. I
didn't understand how math types dealt with, say, 26 dimensions until
Conway's _Sphere Packings, Lattices and Groups_ revealed that they don't
even _try_ to "visualize" --they just 'run the numbers.' I can now
"describe" a 4- or 5- (or n-) dimensional object by listing the 4 (or 5,
or n) coordinates of its apexes (if it has 'em), but I still can't
_visualize_ higher than four. (There is a vague, shadowlike "feeling"
of the higher dimensions in me, but I would not call it either
"accurate" or trustworthy.)
Perhaps you could now give me some benefit of the doubt, understanding
that I _can_, and _am_, visualizing this object of mine with easy
clarity, but that I can't _describe_ it with "math." That is, trust my
visual, but continue to denigrate my attempts to _describe_ it.
I shot someone my short story of the 'Notylon' balls and the magician
recently. Tell me if you'd like to see it. I have no trouble
intuitively "_seeing_" two dimensionless points manufacturing a single
"dimension" between them, if they are absolutely forbidden coalescence.
I seem to be having _awful_ trouble getting anybody else to either
understand or agree. The best I've seen so far is another poster
suggesting I'm trying to resolve a paradox. I told 'im I wasn't tryin'
to _resolve_ one; I was tryin' to _USE_ one.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:36:53
EID:2820 22655480
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 ce2c17f7
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fc
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> with: Shelby Sherman
JB> "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit more easily than can "infinity."
RC> For you, this may be so. In my experience as a math tutor working
RC> with students ranging from preschool through high school and college,
RC> it is not true for the majority. Especially not with younger kids.
Perhaps. I only know my own abilities, not those of most others.
David Worrell attacked my statement that I've always been dumped on this
way, but it's just possible there's a reason: I can do a few things with
my brain most others can't, and most people do not react kindly to
evidence of that. Unfortunately, abstract and printed-symbol
_mathematics_ is NOT one of those things at which I excel or have
natural ability.
JB> In imaging, zero _stops_ thought,
RC> Kindly speak for yourself.
I do, albeit not always 'kindly.' (*g*)
But I clarify: _zero_ does not stop thought, for it is still a "thing."
That which zero is often used to represent ("none"), or more properly
that absolute which seems to underlie 'zero,' DOES stop thought.
I posit that _ANYONE_ who can do it, will arrive at exactly the same
conclusion: trying to reach "really really _nothing_" (words cannot be
used to describe this, that does not exist) with the mind, will STOP the
mind. I also have found that only if someone _does_ succeed in reaching
the step just before this final/absolute barrier to thought, will he
admit that what I have said about it is true. Sorry, that's just the
way it is. If one has not, at least by trying to imagine getting RID OF
absolutely everything, come up against the uttermost cancellation of all
things, he will not, or can not, agree that it IS an absolute stopper.
Reaching it, one feels "reflected" by the concept that taking another
mental step is totally impossible, not because one is deficient in one's
mental abilities, but rather because there's nowhere there to GO.
(The sensation is totally unique, I assure you. If it happens, you WILL
know it for exactly what it is.)
Put simply, it means subtracting everything, which leaves "nothing,"
and then trying to subtract "the nothing." (And, extending, if you do
that and find you have unwittingly created a secondary sort of "nothing"
to be left over, get rid of _that_ as well. Practice makes perfect, and
repeating this effort will sooner or later "stop you cold." You will
rtealize that there IS an absolute limit to thingness, that in no way
can be said to exist at the 'other end' --imagining 'infinity.'
Infiniteness cannot stop the mind's attempts to visualize. The fact
that you can always add another '1' to infinity is evidence of that.
But there is a final limit to imagination, when trying to get down to
"nothing."
I have called it "the self-cancellation of nothing" (written " [NoThing]
"), since it seems to me that one _cannot_ remove the very last 'thing'
(which in this case is 'nothing'). The effort fails; it's like hitting
a rubber barrier and being bounced back. The attempt to remove
whatever-it-is that one has finally, with great mental effort, managed
to call "nothing" results in a backing-up, a default back to
"something."
If one "mentally spins around" right AT that point, one can begin to
construct a possible metaphysics to underlie the Universe's
"somethingness" --its 'reality'-- by treating the end-product of the
effort to imagine _eliminating_ 'everything' as the starting-point of
an effort to _create_ everything.
It is "something from nothing," but it is not something FROM a nothing
which existed or could ever have existed. It is instead creating
"something" by means of "bouncing back" from a nothing so complete it
cannot even be described --it... uh.... ISN'T, and WASN'T, and CAN'T
HAVE ever "been."
(I go to greater descriptive lengths with this than I do with other
things. I know the concept is impossible to describe. I could go on
writing for days, weeks, months, and my reader will _never_ understand
it by reading. It has to be DONE. --With heavy commitment. It's
perhaps one of those extremely rare things about which one can really
say "when it happens, you'll know it has," without specifying exactly
_what_ "it" is. I'm sorry, but to accept the idea of a single point
being the _only_possible_ way to start a Universe, I believe one MUST
have "bounced back from [NoThing]" for oneself. Description will simply
not yield conviction. Intellectual understanding will not provide
conviction. Only DOING IT will provide conviction. Until personally
experienced, the concept I attempt to describe seems ludicrous and
silly, or trivial and intellectually unworthy of tre effort it takes.
Once having DONE what I attempt to describe, the sense that it must be
the only (the uttermost-absolute-minimal) way to "start" reality toward
unfolding itself is 'trivially obvious.')
JB> I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
RC> You are mathematically disfunctional, John.
I resemble that remark....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "they"
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:11:07
EID:d923 22655960
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 fb1d13e1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fd
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> As for the phrasing you requested, that has been provided already.
I see the attempts, and will condense the several attempts, then present
my rewording for your consideration.
RC> I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and suppose that you
RC> had not yet received it before posting your above mysterious
RC> "they" claim. I refuse to accuse you of lying when mere ignorance
RC> can easily account for your misguided assertions.
I didn't. My reception seems to be about three days from your
transmission. Our conversations are multiplexed. (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Ergo Ego Eggo" : "Therefore, I waffle." --LB
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Confirm supplication
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:14:04
EID:e1d8 226559c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 b9e2cd86
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331afde5
On 03 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 01 Mar 97 07:22:49, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> ... +Origin: John Brawley's African Quantum Muti Emporium, SA
JB> Oh, for Pity's sake....
DC> Who's 'Pity' and why should I care about what he drinks?
Boy, _that_ was a stretch.... (*g*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Theology is probably a branch of Physics.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:14:38
EID:8a39 226559c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 e42bac98
On 27 Feb 97, DAVID RICE wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> I been gettin' this sort of shit from people (at least
JB> some of which were less foolish than you) most of my
JB> _life_.
DR> I'm sure most crackpots feel the same way.
I suppose that they do. But there is a small percentage of crackpots
who, while they feel that way, turn out later to have been only
partially cracked. I don't claim (yet) that I'm one of those, but there
have been enough tidbits pop up lately, that the possibility has to be
considered.....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: You forgot to answer this
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:43:00
EID:b9d3 22668560
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Alan Hess:
>>KY> Nope..[sic] Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew,
>>KY> on the other hand, that would be another story..[sic]
>AH> A so-called Messianic Jew is a Christian, not a Jew.
KY> One can't be a Christian Jew?
A "Christian Jew" is like being a "negro White Supremacist."
... Someone needs to come up with the deity equivalent of a nicotine patch
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: James Makes Things Up
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:56:00
EID:9b93 22668700
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Marilyb Burge <=-
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Jim Staal <=-
>>>MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
>>JS> Nope.
>MB> Gimme numbers. I want REAL numbers from the Department of
>MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
>MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a
JS> year involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
JS> Practitioners I guess that should do it.
Do you really expect people to take your word for it?! If so,
you're even more ignorant than Appletoon.
... "There is no God." -- The Bible
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Mar 97 00:17:52
EID:4678 22670220
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331e3cfe
MSGID: 1:229/622 331f6017
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of David Worrell to Dave Hamilton:
JS>>> I think the recent revelations by Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the
JS>>> Coalition of Abortion Practitioners (his previous lie) makes any
JS>>> further arguement moot. 3000-4000 a year, healthy fetuses,
JS>>> healthy mothers.
DH>> Where can I verify this?
DW> [...] The latest effort to pass the legislation comes
DW> after an announcement by a leading pro-choice official, Ron
DW> Fitzsimmons of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, that he
DW> "lied through (his) teeth" during an appearance on the ABC network
DW> program "Nightline." Fitzsimmons says that he told a reporter from
DW> the show that the so-called "partial birth" abortion procedure was
DW> used only in the most extreme circumstances. But last week, in an
DW> interview with the American Medical Association News, Fitzsimmons
DW> that that the majority of the late-term abortions were performed on
DW> healthy fetuses and healthy mothers. "The abortion-rights folks know
DW> it, the anti-abortion folks now it, and so, probably, does everyone
DW> else." [...]
DW> I wonder just who it was that stuck Fitzsimmon's head up his ass?
We just had a case of a guy freed after 10 years in prison from
DNA evidence. He had been convicted based on the testimony of
a known, convicted, pathological liar who was in jail with him
and claimed to have heard a confession.
This bears a striking similarity. Was this guy lying before, or
is he lying now? Where is HIS data?
I still don't consider this verified for healthy mothers and fullterm
babies.
Hopefully, some facts will surface.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: alignment list.
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:23:00
EID:5d2e 2265bae0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331e46a4
KW>Please address additions to the list to me, under the subject
KW>"alignment list". I've started adding the people who
KW>haven't given me their own entry--so unless you want to risk
KW>my best guess of what you are, best let me know.
KW>If I've added you and you want it changed, just give me the
KW>corrected material--and I will quote it exactly as you give it .
It seems to be quite a complete list. However, my last name was
spelled wrong. It is "Wiens", not "Weins." It is a common
misspelling. Ok, I'll go back and hide under my bed now.
Thank You.
p.s. My alias is Jim Goodman...Don't tell Richard Smith,
though. I think he already knows. :) I like irritating
that boy. He is so easily irritable.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * For a reply, send a self-abused stomped Antelope to...
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: A "Swiftie".
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:43:39
EID:117e 22644560
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 331d992c
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89712eb0
Hi Laurie...
On 28 Feb 97 09:29:24, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Dave Hamilton
re: A "Swiftie".
DH> About a message of Laurie Appleton to John Musselwhite:
LA> Clearly, as things stand, I can see you with a very
LA> large SHOVEL in the process of time!
DH> He must have one now if he's still reading your posts.
I do... The mucking of Laurie's byre is a filthy job, but
someone has to do it. B-})
LA> The shovels I referred to were COAL SHOVELS and they are
LA> presented to those who are were particularly consistent
LA> deceivers, given to distortions and misrepresentation, false
LA> accusations and LIARS. :-)
I assume this analogy comes from Dante rather than the Bible.
The fires of Gehenna were fed by the garbage of Jerusalem, not
coal. B-})
John
... She said, "Deeper, deeper!" so I quoted Nietzsche in her ear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: Accepting Reality
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:5722 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E07
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
SQ>> Watch how rational the fundies become when you start telling them
SQ>> that the Book of Mormon is factual. :)
JH> I have. And the Koran.
SQ> It's amazing to get a "real time" version of 1984, right there in
SQ> front of you, isn't it? :)
It's the most glaze you'll see outside of a donut shop.
JH> Since a friend of mine FINALLY found out a few weeks ago about my
JH> beliefs (or lack thereof),
SQ> This is why I don't confide this with too many friends. The worst is
SQ> when employers start talking about "The man upstairs this" or "The man
SQ> upstairs that." Hey, they're paying me to sit there and listen to
SQ> their blather, and that's fine, but I have to put on a show worthy of
SQ> Laurence Olivier to make it look like I'm interested.
The only ones who REALLY know are my friends. Only one was able to
guess outright. He refuses to argue with me, since he knows I can beat
him over the head with his own book. A couple of others have picked
up on it over the years. Some people I've known for years and they
STILL don't seem to know. However, I do know the people around the
school who will try to preach at me. The one who just found out seems
to have already figured out he ain't got a chance converting me.
However, he is hoping and praying for me. When he made that statement,
I asked if he REALLY was praying for me. He said (and I quote),
"No, but I think that's what we're supposed to say to people like
you."
JH> he's made an on-and-off attempt to convert me.
SQ>
SQ> My wife and I were apartment hunting here several years ago, and we
SQ> ran into someone who was a Mormon. One of the first questions she
SQ> asked me was "Y'all gonna convert?" I replied "Over my dead body."
SQ> Needless to say, we didn't rent from them.
SQ>
SQ> These days, I say "Convert into what?" :)
I used that EXACT same line once.
JH> was overmatched. He can't understand why I keep smiling and
JH> laughing when he's talking about Hell. :-> "What can I say, I'M
JH> EVIL!!"
SQ>
SQ> He might as well be telling you that you're going to Detroit for the
SQ> weekend if he's trying to scare you. :)
I've never been there. Should I be scared?
BTW, I preached to this guy the other day about the Word of Stargoat.
I think he thought it was a true religion. "What's this Stargoat
guy give you?" Of course, he's just as deadpan as I am, so he could
have got the joke. I think I've introduced some questions in his
mind.
... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: --whack!--
C:
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: David Ragland & god?????
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:87af 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E08
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
DR>>> You can continue to do so because of _real_ men like me, by the way.
SQ> He and Staal ought to form a barbershop quartet.
"Step up........"
"Step up......."
"Step up........"
Step up on that milkcrate
and say that to my face.
Then I'll grab this Bible
And hit you in the face.
I'll beat you blind with scripture
It's my only claim to fame
Because it's hard to make a living
when your fist's as big as your brain.
It's times like this I wonder whether or not I have anything better
to do.
SQ> Or maybe Jesse Jones will come back and these guys can have a penis
SQ> size contest.
While we throw cans of Vernor's at them.
SQ> It's the Ragland G.I. Joe with Kung Fu Grip.
He's cutting off the oxygen to his brain all by himself!
SQ> But is it anatomically correct?
I'm not checking.
... Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Re: Fundy Frolics 2/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:663a 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E09
-=> Quoting Norman Solomon to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
NS> Now that's frightning, it's like going back to "our" dark ages, but
NS> the KKK don't still exist do they?
Sure does. In fact, a "recruitment center" is opening right in my
state. Right above a place that wants to be a KKK museum and
memorabilia shop.
... If I ran the world, things would be a lot better. Well, for me anyway.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Re: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:8cbd 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E0A
-=> Quoting ROBERT CURRY to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ <=-
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
RC>
RC> ROFL!
RC>
RC> Which one is Mothra?
It reminds me more of Gamera. They're both blowing stuff out of
their asses.
... "Only man has dignity; only man, therefore, can be funny." -- Twain
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: infinitesimals, Zoro
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:17:00
EID:ef1d 22675a20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Dan Ceppa <=-
>>RC> Zero. :-)
>DC> It's simply amazing how often that non-existant number seems
>DC> to always crop up, isn't it?
DH> Wasn't he a Mexican cowboy with a fencing foil?
ROTFL! He and his "gay blade."
... "And the idiot says in his mind that there is a god." - Styx 1:152
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub: Out of your own mouth
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:29:00
EID:37bd 22675ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to All <=-
LB> John and Laurie were killing time
At least John has a brain and doesn't lie for Jesus.
>>JB> May God forgive you and protect you from the wrath He
>>JB> vents on all liars, because you, at least, "lie for the
>>JB> Lord of Hosts" rather than for the Lord of the Flies.
>LA> Are you talking about the God of the Christian Bible or
>LA> about the god of your QUANTUM delusions? What "wrath"
>LA> does your 'phantom god' meter out John? In what revelation
>LA> does his words occur? Perhaps you have pronounced your
>LA> own judgement which you so richly deserve, with your
>LA> own mouth!
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
LAUGH!
"God wreaks Tokyo. Film at Eleven!"
... 28th Rule of Creationism: Shift the burden of proof to your critics.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: 'Sacrifice'
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:34:00
EID:6e13 22675c40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Quentin Fai <=-
>QF> It wasn't *that* much of a sacrifice. He's still
>QF> alive, after all.
KY> Uh, you try being crucified in that way, and see if
KY> you like it very much.
You are being, as usual, silly. Three or four hours of
crucifixion for a god is nothing. The vast majority of
people crucified by the Romans took many days to die.
The aledged crucificion of Jesus was no "sacrifice" at
all. Just a minor inconvenience.
It would have been a better "sacrifice" if Jesus had
been born blind and deaf, with AIDS and leukemia.
... "Sounds like a job for Cap't. Thorazine!" -- Marty Leipzig
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Darryl's Loverboy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:44:00
EID:9a5f 22676580
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>>>DG> to point you towards a right relationship to
>>>DG> God[sic] & encourage you along the
>>>DR> Please tell your god I am not a homosexual and that
>>>DR> he will just have to look elsewhere for his
>>>DR> "relationships." Thank you.
>>DG> Shows again that you don't even have a clue as to what
>>DG> I'm talking about.
>DR> Wrong. It shows that YOU have no idea what YOU are
>DR> talking about. Keep your anal fantasies to yourself,
>DR> please. I do not want a "personal relationship" with
>DR> the supernatural boyfriend.
RS> ROFL!. I like you, David. You bend them over, and
RS> shove the enema pipe right up the Christonazis, before
RS> giving it to them and washing away the shit in their
RS> brains. It's fun to watch :) :) Wahoo! :)
[Blushing] Aw, shuck. twern't nothin'. I particularly like
the "anal fantasies" part--- it has been my observation
that Fundamentalist Christians often have a fixation with
butts for some reason.
>>DG> First of all, God[sic] deplores homosexuality
>DR> Then why did god make homosexuals? Sheeeish: are you
>DR> really this stupid?
He did not answer either of these two questions.
RS> Did you know the NIH is now recruiting gay men who
RS> have brothers to participate in a study of their
RS> brothers and genetic patterns, especially to compare
RS> a few genetic markers they suspect may cause homosexual
RS> sexual orientation.
My understanding of human sexuality, which is near zero (or
should I say Zoro, since John Brawley doesn't believe in
zero?), is that nothing "causes" homosexuality. Any study
of the above might sho a corolation, but not causation.
One problem I forsee with such a study is that sexuality
is a broad spectrum, not clearly demarcated. They will
first have to define what "homosexual" is.
RS> They are hoping that the research will show that a
RS> predominance of the gay men have the genes, and if
RS> their brothers are gay, that these genes and if their
RS> brothers are NOT gay, that the brothers do NOT have
RS> the genes -- thereby isolating a genetic combination
RS> that may prove to lead to homosexual sexual orientation
RS> or a propensity to be gay.
Yikes! If they are "hoping to find" a result, THEY SHOULD
NOT BE THE ONES PERFORMING THE STUDY!
>DR> "Institute who states "the discovery that a nucleus differs
>DR> in size between heterosexual and homosexual men
>DR> illustrates that sexual orientation in humans is amenable
>DR> to study at the biological level." (Parsons 1980:55)
RS> This is probably all going over the head of the fundy,
RS> as they "don't do science". It gets in the way of their
RS> belief system.
Science has doubled the human lifespan in the past 250
years. If fundamentalists don't like it, they can kill
themselves when they reach 40 years old.
>>DG> [a god] calling it a sin and an abomination at
>>DG> various places in the Bible.
>DR> Sorry, no. Ignorant, long-dead, savage Hebrews called
>DR> male homosexuality "an abomination." Female homosexuality
>DR> is okay since it isn't mentioned. Thank god for lesbians.
RS> Lesbians are also God's chosen ones. They have
RS> succumbed the least to HIV infection :) Speaking of
RS> which, God sent a very evil pestilence. At first,
RS> the ignorant hets thought it was sent to kill the
RS> fags, until they realised it was also to kill them
RS> even *moreso* for *their* hypocritical judgement
RS> and sexual mores. :) :) That's if you subscribe to
RS> their "God made HIV to kill gays" theory :)
More black people have died from AIDS than homosexuals. In
Africa the disease has eradicated entire populations. One
wonders why more Fundy Christians don't call AIDS a
"punishment from god" against choosing black skin.
... Laurie, maybe you don't realize it... but you are a moron. - J. Christ
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:50:00
EID:46e2 22676640
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>DR> Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
>DR> Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
>DR> they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
>DR> worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
>DR> Robertson.
RS> You have seen what some of the religious conservatives
RS> have espoused for gays as a solution, and the parallels
RS> to Hitler's Jewish solution, don't you?
More or less. I admit to a dangerous apathy about personal
AIDS education--- I am at very low risk of aquiring AIDS.
I've read about the proposed AIDS victim concentration
camps; the proposed international database to keep track
of AIDS victims; the proposed criminal laws against AIDS
victims who do not advertise their afliction.
... "Fish to Gish" is one example of a complex-to-simple transition.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:58:00
EID:46c3 22676740
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>DR> I can produce, at a moments notice, several documented
>DR> cases of Christians who have reciently rape, murdered,
>DR> and tortured people. Hell, I've already done so and sent
>DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
>DR> accept the Truth.
RS> The most important cases have occurred in GEORGIA this
RS> month... The case of the Georgia exorcism I sent Brother
RS> Fredric, and the case this week of the gay nightclub
RS> bombing in Atlanta.
The "Army Of God" claimed responsibility for the bombings.
Their "field manual" circulates through Fundamentalist
Christian churches (of which The Freedom Writer's
publishers received a copy). History is filled with
Christian violence.
The "Oklahoma City bombing" was likely performed by McVeigh
and his ilk. McVeigh's "militia" is run by a Fundamentalist
Christian survivalist. The US Marine Corps created McVeigh,
and the "militia's" leader wound him up and set him loose
on sociey.
... It's a miracle that there's no evidence of miracles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 07 Mar 97 06:45:33
EID:92de 226735a0
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 7682f37d
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 2263744c
MK> Seems we've just solved the "mystery" of all those church fires,
MK> eh? Has anyone notified Kenny's family, or the FBI?
I called the BATF on him and they just said that they weren't going to worry
about him bacause he's not even capable of jacking off with one hand tied
behind his back.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 06:51:08
EID:3275 22673660
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 7682fea4
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 9a800b1e
MG>> Babies are totally innocent. Why do any of them need to go
MG>> to hell?
JS> None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin. Romans
JS> 3:23.
It's christian attitude just like this that turn people from your loving
and merciful god.
Now, answer the question. Why do babies need to go to hell?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 07 Mar 97 06:53:28
EID:ead5 226736a0
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76830bf1
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 202d1f05
MG>> If you like or dislike any person or group, then you have
MG>> judged them. It is imposible to avoid. If you believe that
MG>> any one person will be going to heaven or hell, you have
MG>> made the judgement already. Whether it is binding or not is
MG>> of no imortance. Your god says not to judge.
JS> I do not judge the final 'reward' of anyone. It is not my job.
JS> It _is_ my job, however, to assess the 'fruits' of a person,
JS> i.e. the outward appearance of his/her lifestyle, compare it
JS> with what scripture says it should or shouldn't be and draw
JS> and intelligent conclusion and offer (if given opportunity)
JS> gentle advice thereby.
You're dancing around the point. Let's make the question more specific.
If you believe that someone is going to hell, you have judged them.
I do not tell you this because I think it's wrong. I tell you this because
it is a chritian tenet not to judge. While it is nearly impossible as a
human not to judge others, I, at least, do not feel bound by your bible
not to proclaim child molesters as unfit for life among us. I judged them
but I don't hold with your principles. The good christian however, is not
able to do that. he must reject all persons well and not juege them. He
is supposed to love the raper of his daughter.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 06:58:18
EID:8410 22673740
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76830ecf
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 212fe979
JS> Answer: I don't know what his beliefs are. Certainly his life is
JS> not patterned after the life of Christ.
If they ask him the same question I just asked you, he will assure the world
that he is a true christian, carrying out the will of god.
Who or whatever is a true christian is a matter of great debate.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 07 Mar 97 06:59:29
EID:d0b1 22673760
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76831136
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 e2fefbba
MG>> If I may quote Hector loosely, "gods dunnit" is not a good
MG>> answer. Let's look for some real answers instead of the ones
MG>> that we wnat to be and have no data for.
JS> Sorry. I am no scientist. I realize that many things claimed are
JS> impossible without Divine intervention.
So if you cannpt expalin it, you just leave it to "divine intervention"?
You are absolutely correct. You are no scientist.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:00:41
EID:820e 22673800
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76831953
REPLY: 1:229/622 331b55b4
JB> So, they're lying out their teeth, OR....they've grown to like
JB> the violence they engender. To the point that actually
JB> stopping abortion is no longer part of their plan.
Thanks..I need to look this up and the guy that Jimbo is quoting. Facts
are so hard to come by. I think that later today, I'll search the medical
literature files here and see what I come up with and post if interesting.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:04:37
EID:b2c5 22673880
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76831b9d
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f06b0a5f
JS> Martin, the thing was front page news for several days last week.
JS> The guy is head of the 'abortioner's union', for crying out
JS> loud. I saw/heard his statement on CNN dozens of times. He
JS> stated he had lied in his earlier testimony because he was
JS> afraid that the facts would have swayed the legislation that
JS> was pending at that time.
Will do.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:05:10
EID:6a10 226738a0
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76832205
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 8f13ae1a
JS> sort of scientific point. I merely stated that the Bible
JS> mentions the other as well. Shucks, dude, the whole thing had
JS> to be a miracle. You know, a super-natural occurance. Only
JS> way it could have happened. Everybody knows that in mere
JS> nature, that much water couldn't exist...and by natural law,
JS> where could have it gone afterwards. It was a miracle!
I think that Hecotr's Law has been obeeyd again, although we call this hector's
Vicious circle.
1. Where is your evidence for a god.
2. The great flood.
3. The great flood could not have occured. It would require the supernatural
plus there is no physical evidence.
4. It was a miracle.
5. Where is your evidence for miracles.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Fudgefest
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:09:11
EID:92a8 22673920
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76832934
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 331aeb1a
RS> What do you expect, Martin? He believes everything he sees
RS> on television or at the movies, just like Ken Young. He
RS> thinks it's perfectly okay to take the word of Star Trek for
RS> a line of Shakespeare.
Ragland and Jelly will both disappear soon. They will have finished their
mission here and move on to other pastures like certain bible thumping echoes
wheret he moderators turn you out for disagreeing with them.
Not like our big, bad atheist echo.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: ACT LIKE A CHRISTIAN
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:15:56
EID:5134 226739e0
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76833671
BW> Nope, it's because he's stupid like you are. I'm a Saganist!
Then why did you quote him out of context, Moron?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:16:55
EID:0ede 22673a00
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76833c6a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331b3c69
KY>> of mixed faiths, because I don't. But a Pagan and a
KY>> Christian could fall in love, and get married for that
KY>> reason.
MG>> That's mighty white of you, Jelly.
DC> 2 to 1 that the fly-by isn't noticed.
Jelly don't talk to me mucht hese days. I wonder why that is?
His obvious connection of mixed faith marriages and mixed race marriage
is positive evidence of his racism. Not only that he is anti gay, and generally
anti everything not conssitant with his book of lies.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:19:00
EID:92a7 22673a60
MSGID: 1:124/4115.221 76833dc7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331b3fe6
KY>> And no, currently I am church hunting..
MG>> What's the legal limit?
DC> (looking into my crewel) Is there a size limit as well?
Size limit varies from state to state.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Bye
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:29:44
EID:6f51 226693a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c37a1
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3309efec
DM> Perhaps it isn't respect I practice, but utter contempt:
DM> I _know_ that they cannot handle honesty, and I value
DM> honesty.
I find it something like complaining tot he manager of McDonald's about
the gumm popping kid's indifference to what I want. Something like you
and the pig getting dirty sort of thing. Standing up at a football game
or something and asking the participants in a prayer there for evidence
of god would be as fruitless as it is here. so a moment of silence is the
wise thing to do.
In other words, don't get the pigs dirty and made at you at the same time.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:39:44
EID:0ae4 226694e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c4ff1
MG>> It doesn't amke it bad. It just makes it the way it is.
RH> Yeah, but they get really upset if you say they are abnormal!
RH> Go figger.
It's too bad that wrods like that have a connotation that make them act
as denigraters when used. Just looking it up int he dictionary should be
sufficient, but "abnormal" gives most people the picture of multi loci mutagenized
organisms that break cameras, stop clocks, and drink the blood of small
children.
While this aptly describes my mother in law, most persons should not feel
bad when this is applied to them. It just isn't so.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Alternative of Straw.
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:47:15
EID:dbda 226695e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c6013
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 331ca723
JB> -=> Laurie complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to
JB> Martin <=-
LA>> You are a lying son of a bitch.
Now Judith, this is a terrible thing to say about Laurie and definitly not
true. If it is so, why does Laurie Appleton say:
"What a devastatingly FUNNY man!"
---L. Appleton 3/2/97
HA HA HA HA HA HA H AHA\ HA HA HA HA HA HA...
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:55:08
EID:94ba 226696e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c6ee2
REPLY: 1:3603/210 41e172cb
RC> Please share your "plenty of evidence" that Mt. Everest rose up
RC> from sea level in historical times (i.e., no more than just a
RC> few thousand years ago).
Oh fucking christ. Here comes the "fossils on Mt. Everest" bullshit again.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Charles Creager
|Sub: Re: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:08:56
EID:637c 22669900
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c916c
REPLY: 1:3639/88 330FB284
CC> Dear Katherine,
CC> I do not know whether you or someone else is the originator of
CC> the following quote, but I found it on your message.
KW>> * OLXWin 1.00a * "God is an asshole"--MB
CC> I really feel sorry for the person or persons that speak of God
CC> in that manner. I feel sorry for them because they will have to
Before you deign to feel sorry for the thinking persons of this echo, look
for and present to us the evidence for this god that will judge us. Until
then, I will not consider god too big an asshole because there is no god
to be an asshole.
I await your reply with the evidence with baited breath.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:13:28
EID:52e7 226699a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767c9923
REPLY: 1:229/622 331d6a0b
DM>> It gets better and better. An incubus is a male spirit
DM>> that has intercourse with sleeping women [...]
DH> Sometimes referred to as "husband who just arrived home
DH> drunk."
And sometimes "jewish husband".
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: clones
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:15:48
EID:d84b 226699e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767ca8f9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331cebf4
DW> I just wish they had cloned a squirrel.
No way. Before long, some government agency will wnat to spend money to
do studies on how cloned squirrels will affect acorn harvest. It'll get
a budget of 10 million. Halfway through the tenure of the comission (which
has stenographers..oops...sorry....typist engineers pushing out more paper
than can be supplied in a year by a large forest) Ralph Nader will get them
on some consumer complaint or other and demand that 3.5 million be returned
tot he taxpayers. The government will counter sue and attorney's fees for
both sides will come to 25 million over a period of 15 years...five years
past the life of the commission.
So keep your ideas unless you wnt trouble.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:21:11
EID:6b4e 22669aa0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767cad81
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 331d6204
MG>> If he has a gun to protect him when his god dosen't, ask him
MG>> why he still carries medical insurance.
MO> Wasn't there some discussion on just this a couple of weeks ago?
MO> Speaking of insurance, I wonder how many christians in
MO> Arkansas had tornado insurance? Also, the one thing that gave
MO> me the shits was a comment from one of the victims whose
MO> house was completely destroyed. She said "the good lord will
MO> look after us." I have to ask, who the fuck knocked your
MO> house down in the first place ya stupid woman! GEEZ!
Precisely. Jelly has tested his god by carrying a gun and buying health
insurance. He's obviously not a very good christian.
One of my favorite tags is "Why does the Vatican have lightening rods?"
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Kosher and Gentiles
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:22:46
EID:f9cd 22669ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 767cb512
DR> The phrase "Jews For Jesus" is equal to "Blacks for Ku
DR> Klux Klans."
Not really. "Messianic jews" are just xtians looking for converts. There
don't seem to be anti semetic.
Early in my days as a confirmed atheist, I was buying some cigars at a local
emporium when in walked a local fundy by the name of Zola Levitt. I don't
know how much his stuff gets around but he was pretty big locally on TV
as an MJ. when he offered everyoine in the place some literature, I told
him to shove it where the sun don't shine. Somewhat taken aback, he left.
On my next trip in, he was there again, but didn't speak to me. The owner
told me that he thought I was one of the evilest men he had ever met.
Life is good.....
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: [1/2] Fundies
|Date: 06 Mar 97 04:49:42
EID:7113 22662620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9336
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Richard Smith about [1/2] Fundies:
dr> I can out "think" you any day, Junior. You are unarmed
dr> in a battle of wits. That doesn't make any difference
dr> anyway, though. Intelligence, lucky for you, is not a
dr> requirement to get into Heaven. I mean, they'll even
dr> let _you_ in, if you believe.
RS> This has got to be the biggest IS NOT you've ever
RS> achieved, Don. Congrats.
DM> Thankew, thankew. I owe it all to good living and my
DM> attention to detail.
Plus a never-ending supply of targets, er, Fundies . . .
DM> I fight against deluded loons who believe that such
DM> things exist and
dr> Where is your sense of respect for another human's
dr> beliefs and rights not to be called names.
RS> Isn't this the guy that just spent half the post
RS> denigrating and calling you names? Perfect example of
RS> Xtian love if you ask me . . .
DM> When he leaves (as leave he soon shall), I predict that
DM> his name will long remain bright in the HolySmoke Hall
DM> of Halfwits, right up there with Stringfellow and that
DM> lying sack of shit, Joe Savelli.
Both before my time here, so I guess I'm glad to see this
Raghead example of such. He IS fun to have about, at any
rate, if for no other reason than he makes such deep
bellylaughs.
d
... *Barney*Fife*Alert* David Ragland's on the loose! *Barney*Fife*Alert*
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Fundies B
|Date: 06 Mar 97 04:51:44
EID:d81e 22662660
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e93b0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Richard Smith about Fundies B:
RS> Somehow I suspect that you're not holding your breath.
DM> With fundies, only purple people do that. Ol' Jelly has
DM> stopped responmding to me entirely for some reason,
RS> He still posts to me. Want me to forward your posts to him?
DM> anyway. He probably has me twitted, ignoring the fact
DM> that I mostly write for the gallery anyway.
RS> Don't most of us? I love that look of surprize a fundy gets
RS> (say about three days after shooting their mouth off) when
RS> they realize the size of the room they were really playing
RS> to. Just let me know if you want me to forward your
RS> messages to the aspicced one, it would be my pleasure.
DM> Naw. I prefer watch the idiot who has twitted people go on
DM> making assertions in public, unaware that his claims have
DM> already been predicted, eviscerated, and hung out to dry.
DM> Makes a pleasing spectacle, I think.
I agree. They sure hate it when they're cut off at the
pass.
... ............yup yessiree bob de bob de bob!! -- David Ragland
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 06 Mar 97 04:53:46
EID:6152 226626a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e942a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Richard Smith about Damned Shoes:
RS> Just heard on the radio that Rebok has a shitload of trouble
RS> now, based on a (I believe it said) new running shoe that
RS> they're bringing out, called the Incubus. I kid you not.
RS> Apparently, church groups across the country want to stamp
RS> out (heh) the damned footware, using as a basis the idea
RS> that no shoe should be named after a demon from Hell.
RS> Better go get them now, kids. In a few days, they'll be
RS> more valuable than the Tickle Me Elmo dolls . . .
RS> Hmmm . . . Incubus, the Official Footware of the Harpy
RS> League . . .
DM> It gets better and better. An incubus is a male spirit
DM> that has intercourse with sleeping women (the succubus is
DM> the female equivalent that helps out lonely guys), so it
DM> would be an appropriate boy-toy for the harpies (if they
DM> ever sleep). These shoes might be a real turn-on for foot
DM> fetishists.
Especially if they have the inflatable sole, like some
sports shoes do . . .
DM> On the whole, this is another sad instance of what
DM> happens when people who don't speak English very well (like
DM> Koreans or fundies) attempt to come up with a brand name.
LOL . . . yep, I was hoping for some extreme form of
profanity or something, but this'll do.
... A Harpy Pie [tm] is its own reward.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Mar 97 04:55:48
EID:85d5 226626e0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 331ca724
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e94a4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Judith Bandsma said to Richard Smith about Cheese Whiz:
RS> Is Jimson serious here? Can he actually believe in some
RS> sort of non-local part of the birth canal? LOL!
JB> Yeah, he thinks the 'birth canal' consists of only the
JB> cervix. I suggested an anatomy book. His response to that
JB> was 'debunked'. I do believe he's getting stupider as the
JB> time goes on.
The first recorded case of Spontaneous Algernon Syndrome . . .
(Sorry, Jimson, no one will look this up for you. You
actually have to read a few books to get this reference.)
... A dorky dick-head with ears in white jeans----outstanding ears -- JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Reading Incomprehensi
|Date: 06 Mar 97 04:57:50
EID:b3d3 22662720
REPLY: 1:229/622 331cb55b
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e951e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Richard Smith about Reading Incomprehensi:
DH> Somebody has do god's work here on earth. Ken knows
DH> in his heart that he's been called.
RS> Too bad it's a bad connection . . .
DH> In my church-going days, I noted that people drove schoolbusses
DH> through rain and snow, put the coffee on, arrived early to turn
DH> up the heat, fixed the roofs. It always struck me that if God were
DH> to call people to do his work on earth, surely it wasn't just to
DH> be the sargeant-at-arms (or whatever the popular big biscuit is),
DH> and that these people probably fell into the most generous postulation
DH> of what it is to be "called."
Exactly. One's worth is established by doing, not talking.
DH> Near as I can tell, Ken has been called to follow the elephants
DH> at the circus with the little shovel and broom. Somebody has
DH> to do it: why not someone ideally suited?
I agree, such copraphilia should be rewarded . . .
... According to Ken Young, fewer homosexuals meant fewer abortions.
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--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:00:52
EID:8b65 22662800
REPLY: 1:229/622 331cb618
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e95d4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Richard Smith about Exemplifying examples 1/:
DH> time. This has been established since 1990 or so. No
DH> educated person questions this fact.
RS> You should sit there and wait. Fairly soon the echo of your
RS> words will come back and that, along with the cricketsong,
RS> will be all you hear from Ken on this. He's pretty good at
RS> ignoring truthful things pointed out to him.
DH> He's got The Appleton Clipper Chip. Hardware version of
DH> the Kit Ballantyne Purity Filter. He's just got it set for
DH> science.
"Burn the witch! Burn the witch!"
I can't stand bigotted technophobes . . .
DH> I've never used a Twit Filter. Can you set them up to
DH> ignore common sense? On second thought, never mind. Fundies
DH> would have to be able to identify common sense in order to
DH> filter it out.
Yeah, I doubt they've ever seen common sense. Certainly Ken
hasn't . . . otherwise, he wouldn't be digging in his
backyard looking for Hell.
... According to Ken Young, Hell is just an unfortunate eternity.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:01:54
EID:f9cf 22662820
REPLY: 1:229/622 331cb809
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9612
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Richard Smith about Al Debunks Applesauc:
RS> Damn, you guys still get Curtis where you're at! I haven't
RS> seen a post from him in MONTHS. Damn Fido . . .
DH> I'm getting them second hand from Don when he quotes them.
Well, I feel a _little_ better.
DH> I've never got anything from Darryl Gonzales, not that I
DH> seem to be missing much, but he takes my name in vain
DH> from time to time.
Only because he can't refute you.
DH> Maybe Fido's in heat.
I hope it mates with Raghead . . .
... Darryl Gonzalez says his God exists because Socrates believed in it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring Christan Faction
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:02:56
EID:e446 22662840
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331cc7d8
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9650
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Warring Christan Faction:
KW> So Bear's still ahead of Leo.
DR> Ursa Major or Ursa Minor?
DC> Andress.
RS> . . . undressed . . .
DC> She is far ahead of us, that's for sure! Something
DC> like making it a photo-tittle!
Sorry I disrupted the pun thread. I was merely drooling a
the thought . . .
... Emmanual doesn't pun . . . he Kant.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:04:58
EID:b5e5 22662880
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 331cb306
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e96ca
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Mark O'neill said to Richard Smith about Exemplifying examples:
ky> Come on, a little intelligence would be nice.
RS> He can have yours. You're not using it.
MO> Bwahahahahahahahahaha!! Classic!
And yet strangely true . . .
... . . . anyone that believes in a god is a dogmatic moron. -- Ken Young
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:07:00
EID:cf1b 226628e0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331d6252
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9744
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Alternative Or Straw:
dr> men like me, by the way. Today, me and mine kicked in
dr> doors and served warrants so that profane lil' pencil
RS> And now he thinks he's a policeman, refuting his earlier
RS> statement about what he did for a living.
DC> He has to. Everyone laughed at that and he's trying to
DC> rebuild what's left of it.
It's ugly to see a man trying to compensate for a small
penis.
RS> Aren't you bored yet? I know *I* am.
DC> Contraty to what Martion noted about his Origin line,
DC> I still think he's Cpt Fuck or at least the clone of
DC> him that was produced in Scotland recently.
Ah, the famed Zipless Fuck.
(Note to Jimson Staalin: it's another one of those darn
pesky literary allusions. Just ask around about Erica
Jong. Maybe Wilber will read some of her works to you.)
... According to Jimson, Christ is needed for mating on other planets.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Educational Experien
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:08:02
EID:accf 22662900
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9782
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Roger Hunter said to Richard Smith about EDUCATIONAL EXPERIEN:
CH> It'll be hyphenated. Christopher and Rod Hughes-Swift.
RH> While I understand your reasoning,
RS> MY reasoning? You're responding to the wrong person, Roger.
RH> ?? I wonder how that happened. I was replying to Rod Swift.
Happens to us all, sooner or later . . .
RH> they adopt kids, pretty soon we have Tom
RH> Smith-Jones-Williams-Anderson-Carson-Andrews-Thompson-Carr.
RS> Considering that it's a very popular custom, how do you plan
RS> on stopping it?
RH> I don't. I'm just pointing out the difficulty. It will probably
RH> collapse on it's own.
I actually agree with you.
... Two gay Irishmen: Patrick Fitz-Michael and Michael Fitz-Patrick.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ...
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:11:04
EID:b1ef 22662960
REPLY: 1:221/1503 331D10EC
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9838
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Richard Smith about ...:
RS> Hey, Dav, how's your monkey?
RS> Not as proud, I imagine, as effectively refuting your
RS> claim.
dr> That sentence is just a little disjointed and lot stupid.
RS> Assinine claim numbers three and four.
RS> c/and lot/very
RS> or
RS> c/lot/a lot
dr> It flows like water. Water with very large turds in it
dr> that is. Please resubmit in English, Gomer.
RS> Assinine claims numbers five through seven.
RS> c/in it/in it,
RS> c/resubmit/resubmit it
RS> c/Gomer/Richard
RV> I'm glad you pull this stunt on the one's with perfect
RV> english.
LOL . . .
RV> I try to remember the points you bring up.
You shouldn't worry. You do just fine.
RV> And yes, I do understand, the why.
Exactly. Chutzpah needs to be curbed . . .
... .....that's good enough huh? Deeeerrrrr!!! -- David Ragland
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: The madness spreads!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 05:16:06
EID:1f95 22662a00
REPLY: 1:358/1 062790e7
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331e9966
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Quentin Fai said to All about Re: The madness spreads!!:
js> Trust me. Many are they who would be willing...nay,
js> anxious, to sleep with the silver tongued Jim Staal. ;)
QF> Oh, yeah. I'd fuck him, too.
Line forms to the right. Kwitcher shoving . . .
... ARGH! Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: You forgot to answer
|Date: 06 Mar 97 08:32:08
EID:ea52 22664400
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ec758
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Darryl Gonzalez about You forgot to answer:
dg> But I will never tire of hearing the phrase "prove it or
dg> shut up".
DM> Please be so good as to _name_ the person (or persons) who
DM> has (or have) said this to you. Those who have asked
DM> instead for _evidence_ do not count (even if you never
DM> tire of hearing _that_, either).
I thought you knew . . . Darryl has a continuous running
conversation with himself, sort of like Tourette's Syndrome
after too much caffiene. That's why he got upset with Dave
Hamilton for discussion psychotic personalities and assumed
that Dave was talking about him. The connections are very
clear, even to him. Perhaps its his way of reassuring
himself of his reality . . .
... According to Darryl Gonzalez, slavery & racism have nothing in common.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 06 Mar 97 08:49:10
EID:3362 22664620
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 331e27df
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ecb56
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Judith Bandsma about Al Debunks Applesauc:
DM> http://wp1.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/comics/wiley/past.htm
JB> Wiley PAST? At the Post? Oh dear, dare I look?
DM> Only us old farts remember one-eyed pilots, Bandsma . . .
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian
DM> was riding with this pilot in his final crash?
Will Rogers.
... Will Rogers never met Rush Limbaugh . . .
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 07 Mar 97 04:18:12
EID:74e4 22672240
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 df9a30ff
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331fdd54
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Christopher Hughes about My Summer Weekend:
CH> Jim, you obviously have a screw loose somewhere. I should
CH> think it's pretty clear to you by now that my husband is
CH> an atheist.
js> How come you both call each other 'husband'? Marriage
js> consists of husband and wife.
You know, coming from someone that hints at/hides a history
of fellatio, who goes to leather bars and bases approval on
size, and is married to someone named Wilbur, you'd think
that Jimson would be brighter than this, wouldn't you?
js> If I had no 'brain in my head', I wouldn't have this
js> knowledge of scripture God has given me.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please observe: Hector's Law in
action.
[Applause]
js> I know nothing of whatyou are talking about...
CH> You could truthfully make this statement about a vast
CH> number of things, I think.
js> You know, Chris, you don't seem like a bad guy. No reason
js> to get personal about this stuff.
Yeah, Chris, how _dare_ you! Only Jism, er, Jimson can get
personal with people, like he did at the top of this post.
It is very much the Xtian thing to do. You getting
personal back at him is way out of line . . . };)
... ARGH! Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 06 Mar 97 09:07:14
EID:69df 226648e0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 b2ddc7a4
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ecf92
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about Well, women?:
JS> No, you just have this 'Fred Rice' based bug in
JS> your butt about PK and have decided to pick on
JS> me for it. So pick away...
Have you been putting objects in Staalin's ass again? You
know the rule: how can we make him go away if we keep
feeding him!
... brojimmy don't get no gubmint cheeze. -- Jimson Staalin, English Major
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Let the Count Begin!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 09:13:16
EID:bb4f 226649a0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 fbb6f3f1
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ed0fc
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about Ha!:
RodS> Of course not, simpleton.
js> I find it quite amusing that a giggly little girl such
RodS> ------------------
js> as yourself would call one such as I 'simpleton'. LOL!
RodS> I find it amusing that you make the stereotypical
RodS> assumption that "gay men" are synonymous with
RodS> "effeminate men".
js> Not at all. Effeminate men aren't necessarily gay
js> either. (I have a good freind who is wonderfully
js> effeminate and definitely _not_ gay) I called you that
js> because in most of the posts from you in the past (and
js> your channel utterings) even the most cutting attacks
js> have a smiley faced suffix.
Okay everyone, let's have an emoticon watch on Jimson for
the next thirty days. If he uses any emoticon, following
his reasoning [sic] here, he's a giggly little girl.
... It is hard for thee to suck too many pricks. -- JS 1:10
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Little Girly Staalin #1
|Date: 06 Mar 97 09:18:18
EID:0bed 22664a40
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 d028abc4
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ed22a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about My Summer Weekend:
js> scary thought. :)
Well, here's the first indication of Staalin's girlyhood.
... According to Jimson Staalin, emoticons -- };) -- indicate effeminacy.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 06 Mar 97 09:23:20
EID:f78c 22664ae0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f94e80a1
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ed358
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about jesus needed...:
js> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_
js> love everyone.
FAQ! FAQ!
js> No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner.
js> All of the things you listed (compassion, understanding,
js> kindness) appear as desireable attributes in any person,
js> man or woman.
RodS> Yet you display none of them.
js> That is not true. Ask those who know me. If they are
js> honest they will tell you I do.
Don't everyone speak at once.
... BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone. -
JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Staalin's 2nd Girly
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:42:22
EID:7126 22665d40
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 3675cf09
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ef3ee
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about the promise keepers 1/:
js> A better man is what they make out of me. :)
This makes the 2nd girly that Staalin has managed to achieve
in this message packet. He's getting quite limp-wristed.
... BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone. -
JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Staalin's 3rd Girly
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:43:24
EID:b82a 22665d60
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 9032f5d0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ef42c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Rod Swift about Oops, Caught Again:
js> They will, and I'll be there to witness it. :)
Here's Staalin's 3rd girly. He'll probably begin
cross-dressing now . . .
... There is more to reading the Bible than just 'reading the Bible'...-JS
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Mar 97 12:01:26
EID:85d5 22666020
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 c1d9ce5f
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331ef866
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jim Staal said to Judith Bandsma about Cheese Whiz:
JB> I repeat...you need an anatomy book.
js> Yeah, and you need a...aw, forget it!
Judith, you have to remember not to use the Harpy Glare at
full power with people with miniscule intellects. Now
you've frightened poor Jimson out of his wit.
... Harpies can, of course, forage for any bits they wish.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 2/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 05:33:28
EID:3e18 22672c20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 331feef8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Norman Solomon said to Lynda Bustilloz about Fundy Frolics 2/3:
LB> Yes, officially, vandalism is illegal. Getting it
LB> enforced however is close to impossible...many pagans
LB> could tell you stories about how the police spent more
LB> time searching their premises for signs of "satan
LB> worship" than they did to gain evidence in order to
LB> track down the perpetrator.
NS> Why? Is "satan worship" illegal?
Technically, no, it isn't. It's just that `discovering'
Satanic crime has gotten to be a cottage industry. BTW, in
case you didn't know it, I am a Wiccan.
Before I go on with this, let me point something out. The
FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) did an extensive study
on the subject and released a document called the Lanning
Document. (It should be available on the InterNet, just do
a search for it.) The Lanning Document shows that there is
NO world-wide Satanic Conspiracy (no organized Satanic Snuff
Films, no breeding program to supply sacrificial babies, no
known conspiracy to invade schools, no involvement in the
music industry, etc.), no elevated number of ritual deaths
attributed to the Satanic Panic (the number of which ranges
from 50,000 a year up to 200,000 or more, depending on who
you speak to), etc. It points out that there are fewer
murders supposedly done by Satanists and other occult
practitioners than there are Xtian murders. It finds almost
all of the claims of the Satanic Panic and those who profit
by it to be grossly unfounded. It also does a fairly
tolerable job of defining and showing what all the different
counter-culture faiths (Pagans, Wiccans, Druids, Shamanism,
Satanists, Goths, Santerians, etc.) consist of.
All in all, a very good book (it IS a large study) and quite
accurate. Now, that being said, why do a large percentage
of the police departments in this country IGNORE it and push
their own Satanic Panic agenda? Why are there many
police/sheriff's officials and officers who follow it, as
well as Child Protective Services, etc.? Two words: money,
and Xtians.
Occult crime is big business. There's seminars (mostly for
the police to attend), video tapes, audio cassettes, books,
infomercials, etc. Some folks are making a lot of money off
claiming something that has been shown to be unfounded as
far as existing.
This has lead to many travesties of justice. There is
simmering a very low Satanic Panic, and the Xtians (who,
coincidentally, make a fair amount of money off this) keep
pushing for it to become a full boil. Lynda's dead on in
her assessment of how Pagans are treated, as a result of
this. Some for-instances:
A woman, a Wiccan, in Florida who nearly had her child taken
away from her unless she promised the court that she would
give up her religion. The child would have gone to the
Jehovah's Witlesses, the people pushing for the legal end of
this.
The McMartin Pre-School case in Southern California: on the
basis and testimony of several children in the Pre-School,
several adults were arrested and put on trial for Satanic
crimes, including sex with the children and ritualistic
sacrifices. Pretty soon ALL the children there were making
these claims. Eventually it came out that all of the
witness were unproven, that their memories of the incidents
had probably been planted by the therapist who (what a
coincidence!) was the girl-friend of the biggest reporter on
the story, and that the DA's office looked the other way or
let evidence be tampered with. The result: half a dozen
adults had their lives and livlihoods taken away, with great
loss of property, and are forever stigmatized by these
claims that were shown to be impossible. Several of those
adults are elderly people who have no retirement now, and
are hopelessly in debt.
The Robin Hill murders, in which a small boy was horribly
butchered. Because a local kid had been playing with
Satanic books, etc., the town convicted HIM and a couple of
his friends of the murder. No direct evidence, and there's
indications that the real perp was never investigated by the
police. The main teenager, who was actually affiliated with
Catholicism, was rumored to be Wiccan (because he read some
books and made some claims) as well as a Satanist (for same
reasons). He is currently awaiting death, and his two
friends have been sentenced to increadibly long prison
terms, like 200 years or somesuch. HBO pictures made a
documentary pointing out how flawed the trial was, etc., and
currently there are efforts in line to try to get a retrial.
And so on, and so on, ranging from minor inconveniences
(getting shot at by a shotgun while doing a Wiccan ceremony,
as happened to members of the Iron Oak Church in Florida) to
arson, children being taken away, etc. Lives are being
destroyed over a myth that generates big business.
For instance, a personal story: I and my family used to
belong to the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism), a
group that does medieval recreations. We used to take our
children, camp out for the weekend, wear medieval clothes,
watch men in armor bash each other, etc. Nothing more
dangerous than role playing games (also attributed to
Satanism, btw), etc., right? Well, we stopped going because
of the politics (read that: I finally found it intolerable
to spend most of my free time with social-climbing bottom
feeders while the really nice people got shafted and used)
but my children remember going.
Four or five years back my oldest son drew a picture at
school. In it, he and I were wearing armor, and had swords.
We were riding armored horses and killing monsters. It was
a typical kid's picture.
The school counselor saw it and had a conniption.
`Obviously, something bad was happening at home if my son
felt a need to armor himself away from his father.' The
school leaped into action and called Child Protective
Services. For the next couple of years (and even continuing
today, as a matter of fact) every time they wondered if the
kids were being abused, or if they caught them looking
`spacey' at school (I lie not!), etc., they would
investigate us again. Finally, a misplaced remark a year
and a half ago (I told my sons, who were in the backyard at
the time, that if they didn't get inside the house and clean
their room as they had promised to do, they were going to be
dead boys. I was, of course, speaking metaphorically.)
caused CPS to increase their attention and we locked horns.
They started interrogating our children at the school. Did
mom and dad use drugs? (No.) Were there drugs around the
house? (No.) Did mom and dad drink a lot? (No.) Were
there any bottles of booze in the house, say in the
refrigerator? (Yes.) What kind of booze was it? (I don't
know, it was for ritual.)
"Guess the secret word and win $100." -- Groucho Marx
We suddenly had CPS workers crawling on us like nits. The
police were notified. Past incidents of violence involving
the children were examined (I'd told my oldest son that if
kids at school picked on him, to hit them back twice as hard
-- horrible me, I was fostering violence at school!), etc.
The asked the children if we had any body parts over here,
any jars of blood, if babies were ever involved in our
rituals, etc. Then they came to our house and questioned
us. Were we intending on sacrificing our own children?
Were we Satanists? And so on and so on.
We finally calmed them down and explained what our faith
is, etc. They looked at us kinda sideways, and then asked
if we were at least intending on taking our children to
Xtian services, etc.? Sure, someday, we said, ever aware
that they could take our children away. (To be honest, it
was a lie. I never intend to take my children to Xtian
services. I doubt very much that the CPS workers have ever
asked Xtian parents if they would take their children to
Wiccan services, just to get a fair understanding, etc.)
They finally went away grumbling to themselves. We should
be happy, right? No. For they have us on a list now, and
we are aware of a constant scrutiny. If my youngest son
falls on the playground and injures himself and doesn't tell
someone there at the school (or if that person doesn't
remember being told) we have to explain where the injuries
came from. If my oldest son is caught day-dreaming, he's
pulled in for counseling, and then they suggest that he's
either ADD, needs special education, is slow/stupid, or that
he has neurological problems. (For crying out loud, he's a
normal pre-teen boy, having daydreams in the Springtime!) I
have before me as I write this a note from CPS telling us
that they, having done another extensive background check,
find that our oldest son had to go to the hospital last year
for an ingrown toenail. That is true. They then say that
he'd told them that sometimes he wakes up with a headache.
That is a lie. (What he actually told them was that
sometimes, when he has an ear infection, if he lays down and
then sits up too quickly, his head hurts. This is just the
tip of the iceberg: by now we do not expect any truths from
CPS.) So, perhaps there is some connection and we should
have him neurologically checked out?
Sigh. Okay, we'll have someone look at him, though I
personally don't understand how having an in-grown toenail
could affect his brain and how that is evidence of our
alleged abuse towards him.
What exactly is our crime? We're not Xtians and, worse than
that, we're not content with merely being atheists or
agnostics (both perfectly allowable if one isn't going to be
a Xtian) . . . we insist on being of a counter-culture
religion that happens to endorse some things that some Xtian
sects find threatening: empowerment of women, equal rights
in a relationship, every person their own priest or
priestess, no tithing to a church, no need to worship in a
church, encouragement of people to create their own dogma,
etc. We're dangerous. So now we're on a list, and it's
only by having the good luck to live in Northern California
that we have SOME protection.
I may have rambled here a bit, but you get my gist.
... An it harm none, Do what thou wilt. -- The Wiccan Rede
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:46:06
EID:61d8 22665dc0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331f02de
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e4aa
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Exemplifying examples
G'day Rod,
MO>> ... "gays may subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual" - Ken
MO>> Young
RS> The ironic thing is that each time we debunk him, he comes up
RS> with a new theory, as if he were desperate to actually have one
^^^ ^^^^^^
We *are* dealing with a christian mate, and they already possess a vivid
imagination with which to concoct pearls of wisdom like the one above. I
be dissapointed if he didn't at least try. ;-)
RS> I assure you, he will not succeed. :)
/me settles back to watch the show. ;-))
/\\ark...
... Don't worry - Cthulhu LIKES your sense of humor.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Graham Drummond
|Sub: Back
|Date: 06 Mar 97 14:20:29
EID:31a8 22667280
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331f270d
REPLY: 3:640/375@fidonet 33188569
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Graham Drummond said this about Back
G'day Graham,
GD> I just thought I'd let you all know that the most despised
GD> ex-HOLYSMOKE writer this side of Palestine is back, for a while
GD> at least.
Welcome, Graham Erectus, Oh Great One who walketh about upright. :-)
GD> ... O instrument of God, force-fed on ignorance and lies.. - Walkyier
Top tag. Sounds vaguely familiar. Hmm... :)
/\\ark...
... No one can become an atheist merely by wishing.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 14:27:25
EID:5618 22667360
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 331f28ad
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33190d16
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this about Ha!
G'day Rod,
JS>> I find it quite amusing that a giggly little girl such as
RS> ------------------
JS>> yourself would call one such as I 'simpleton'. LOL!
RS> I find it amusing that you make the stereotypical assumption that
RS> "gay men" are synonymous with "effeminate men".
Agreed. FWIW, there's a bloke who drinks in the pub next door (yes, I live
next door to a pub (NOW THAT'S HEAVEN!)), who is homosexual. Tough as
nails and as rough as guts. I defy anyone to call this gentleman "giggly".
Lucky he's a drinking buddy of mine. :-)
/\\ark...
... I see the problem! You're using the Bugfix Bible.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 06 Mar 97 14:06:36
EID:3ce5 226670c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072a7
REPLY: 1:229/622 331ec891
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Dave complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Jim <=-
DH> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .
Time to make orange sauce.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:37:24
EID:94c3 226764a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072a8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Damien complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to J.J. <=-
DW> Then again, I don't think another Staal COULD exist.
Staal might be in the running if he didn't use so many aliases that
he dilutes them all.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:38:08
EID:183e 226764c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072a9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Damien complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Judith <=-
DW> Instead, she'd be a twin of you with her own fuckups. :-) Still,
Sure, but she wouldn't have had a psychotic stepfather try to kill her
twice before she was a year old, an alcoholic grandmother or a small town
full of church people letting her know that she was the devil incarnate.
I think I could have been a LOT more creative in my fuckups without all
that.
DW> there is some potential... who knows, you could people like Staal or
DW> Appleton and see if they'd have been worthwhile people without their
DW> fundyisms.
Yeah...wouldn't that be weird? An honest Appleton and a sane Staal?
... Death called while you were out, so I gave him your pager number.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI [1]
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:43:46
EID:87a3 22676560
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072aa
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 331ee237
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Don complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Judith <=-
DM> Mebbe, but from the Kosher point of view, splitting the
DM> hoof is a _good_ thing.
Teach it to chew bubble gum? (Well, as long as the pig LOOKED like it
was chewing a cud...worked for rabbits, didn't it...)
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: O'Gods
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:50:52
EID:d9a3 22676640
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072ab
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 fa070db3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> John complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to God <=-
JB> Where'd you learn to spell?
Same place you learned math.
... All right, Brucie, come out with your hands on your hips!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: RIC CARTER
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:54:26
EID:914e 226766c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072ac
REPLY: 1:2002/2002 d316ea00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> RIC complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to MARILYN <=-
RC> Can I get absolution for that? PERFORM 105-ABSOLVE THRU 105-EXIT.
Nope. You'll GOSUB with no RETURN.
(Those who sin in COBOL must pay a BASIC price.)
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 07 Mar 97 13:20:30
EID:f0b6 22676a80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 332072ad
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 331d46f2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Richard complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Judith
<=-
RS> Thereby adding to your local economy, and thusly to the GNP.
RS> Everyone benefits from this, it would appear. Harpies do
RS> good works? Yep . . .
Well, looks like I won't be adding on after all. :( Our railroading
into the city of North Charleston has had an interesting effect. After
10 years in this location, I have to move or close. I have about 28 days
left that I can do business from here.
Since the money isn't available to move the location, I'm having to sell.
Oh well, that's bills I'll no longer have to worry about. And once I get
the bills paid off, there should be enough for me to do something I've been
wanting to...get the writable CD ROM drive. And the 3 gig hard drive I've
been needing. And maybe some more memory. That 17" monitor I've been looking
at isn't THAT expensive. And a bigger desk to hold all this stuff.
Well, there went the profit from the sale of the business.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Scurvy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:58:20
EID:fb77 22677740
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 33209f0c
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 31f5e9c1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Rick complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to ROBERT <=-
RM> No, the answer to the question is that, in my belief, miracles such
as
RM> the one you propose are possible, but of no importance whatsoever.
No IMPORTANCE????? Man is the only animal that does not synthesize its
own vitamin C. Without that vitamin, you get scurvy. Which can kill you.
Slowly. Painfully.
I would consider a human being manufacturing vitamin C in their body as
worth considering as evidence of a god.
But I guess that isn't important at all.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 20:28:00
EID:a69f 2267a380
MSGID: 1:229/622 013cb1ff
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331b0706
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
In a message to Laurie Appleton you wrote:
RS> Will you purchase me and send me a copy of the Revised Quote
RS> Book, and, if you have a copy around or can obtain one, a copy of
RS> the Original Quote Book.
You can't buy it. You have to trade your brain for it. It's an implant.
---
* Origin: ... Don't start vast projects with half vast ideas! (1:229/622)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 08 Mar 97 01:05:56
EID:6438 226808a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3320bc1e
REPLY: 1:3652/1 331E6B94
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Mercurii dies March 05 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Hell, here in Texas, I can get all kinds of religious channels just
by
SQ>> turning the antenna "just so."
JH> Towards the "mouth of God"?
Or from the anuses of his followers, take your pick. :)
SQ>> With our local cable provider, shit, we must have had seven or
SQ>> eight "Jesus Channels," some of which were airing the same clowns and
SQ>> the same beg-a-thons time and time again.
JH> Big-hair-lady: Submit to Jesus and get this free T-Shirt!
JH> all I got was this lousy T-shirt.>
JH> Only local we got here is trusty old channel 16, the TBN affiliate.
JH> Jimmy Swaggart every Sunday night.
I wish that we had his stuff around here. Now that Tilton's off the air,
there's nobody interesting. Oh, sure, we've got some of the ratbags in
Dallas, and they show crap from Houston, but they aren't as -classic- as
the likes of Swaggart and Van Impe (whose show I haven't seen in AGES).
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 08 Mar 97 01:09:04
EID:4768 22680920
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3320bc50
REPLY: 1:3652/1 331E6B96
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Mercurii dies March 05 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad Bryson Hughes:
BH>> Then when I was put on trial by angels, I just knew I was cooked, if
BH>> you know what I mean. But I emerged a better man for it.
JH> You were put on trial by angels? I trust you have transcripts.
It's a typo: He's describing a geometry exam he barely passed when he was
in the tenth grade. He was put on trial by ANGLES.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Give us a kiss!
|Date: 08 Mar 97 01:09:46
EID:1764 22680920
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3320bc88
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
I thought of you tonight while I was watching Howard Stern's "Private Parts."
They had some -really- smarmy lawyers in a scene at NBC.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Jim Staal
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:57:29
EID:13a8 22673f20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 ab2d17c9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331e3cfe
On (06 Mar 97) David Worrell wrote to Dave Hamilton...
DW> 04 Mar 97 19:44, Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal:
DW> JS>> I think the recent revelations by Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the
DW> JS>> Coalition of Abortion Practitioners (his previous lie) makes any
DW> JS>> further arguement moot. 3000-4000 a year, healthy fetuses,
DW> JS>> healthy mothers.
DW> Fitzsimmons told Nightline that the procedure "is a form of
DW> killing... You're ending a life." `
DW> I wonder just who it was that stuck Fitzsimmon's head up his ass?
Sounds to me like the man finally got a conscience.
... The prudish amputee: Goody One Shoe.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 09:58:24
EID:2214 22674f40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 ba928d13
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331a7bdc
On (03 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> :) :) Tell us about the "gooks", Jimson. :) :)
You tell me, Giggles, you seem to know. I have never mentioned anything
about 'gooks'.
RS> Tell us what we should do to kommies!
You tell me. I haven't suggested anything...
JS> RS> It was that, or one of those "ex-Gook" (Jimbozo's terminology)
JS> Where did I say that?
RS> You use the word "gook" as a synonym for the languages and
RS> peoples of Vietnam.
Oh, I did, did I? And where was that?
RS> I would suggest that if you used that term in front of a
RS> delegation of Vietnamese on a diplomatic mission, you'd be
RS> lynched :)
I don't think so.
RS> Maybe you should go to the Embassy of Vietnam in Washington and
RS> ask them personally. Remember, it's *their* soil :) :)
It is their soil...that I helped pay for.
... He that denieth the faith, and is worse than an infidel. - 1 Tim. 5:8
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:01:04
EID:baea 22675020
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 139163e5
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331a7c1a
On (03 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> You have quite an imagination, giggle-boy. No mention of any 'gay-lover'
JS> in John or anywhere else.
RS> Oh, so who was the disciple he loved?
His name was John. You have something against love?
RS> Is this more of your biblical-denialism, like that of Leviticus 20?
I don't deny the existance of Lev 20.
... Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift. (2 Cor 9:15)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:02:07
EID:2214 22675040
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 808d52b8
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331af268
On (03 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> I really hope they do. This man has quite a penchant for inventing
JS> things that I allegedly say/think.
RS> You did use the word "gook". You've used "sombee". You've used
RS> "commie".
Yes, I have, but not in the context you have put them...
RS> I'm sure Brother Fredric has some quaint reminders of your words
RS> re: homophobia.
Don't thinks so because they do not exist because I neither think nor
speak concerning homophobia.
... For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. (1 Cor 4:20)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditi
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:03:38
EID:cf7d 22675060
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d3dbc157
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c3786
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 26-02-97 at 10:20, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVE HAMILTON,
RS> on the topic of "Baby in Critical Conditio" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from time
JS> to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the whole
JS> thing and walks away. :)
RS> She's just jealous that you find me more attractive than her...
Nah, she is more attractive than you.
RS> Rod "...I love you Jim!" Swift :)
Well, thankyou, Rod. Now if you could just demonstrate this a bit in
the echo...
... For every man shall bear his own burden. (Gal 6:5)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:04:56
EID:a22e 22675080
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 01433119
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c3ad8
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> It was a sarcastic response to your claim that Christian domestic
RS> terrorism does NOT exist in the US, despite such cases as the
RS> Brookline abortion clinic massacre, the reign of terror of Paul
RS> Hill, the abortion clinic bombing in Atlanta, the bombing of the
RS> Atlanta lesbian nightclub, the arson attack against gay and
RS> lesbian establishments in Oklahoma and Arizona, etc, etc, etc.
RS> No, these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
RS> professing love for their fellow humans because they have
RS> tolerance, rather than being domestic Christian terrorists.
No these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
demonstrating their hatred towards things they are not able to tolerate.
RS> Rod "...I offer you the chance, yet again, to answer the
RS> question -- does Christian domestic terrorism exist in the US?
No, it does not.
RS> What are you doing about it to stop it?" Swift :)
It doesn't exist, therefore I am doing nothing. I do hope, however,
that the perpetrators of all of the above are caught and punished
severely.
... Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and for ever.- Heb. 13:8
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:07:18
EID:2541 226750e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c9d2988c
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c4226
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Question: which 'half' of the population are you refering to?
RS> A man is eliminated from being able to choose from half the
RS> population merely because he is discriminated based upon the sex
RS> of the prospective spouse.
RS> Women are similarly burdened with a deliberate discrimination
RS> whereby the state automatically mandates that half the population
RS> CANNOT enter into a legally-binding marriage/spousal contract.
Are you trying to put across that you believe half the population is
gay? I look at you and laugh!
... But he that glorieth, let him glory in the lord. (2 Cor 10:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:08:51
EID:a22e 22675100
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 425d63e6
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c4356
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Evidence???
RS> I've provided the evidence for US domestic Christian terrorism.
RS> You are the one refuting it. You provide YOUR evidence to
RS> disprove mine CONCLUSIVELY.
I have seen no evidence of Christian terrorism. A True Christian [tm]
would not do such things.
RS> Please prove that Paul Hill didn't kill abortion doctors because
RS> of his religious extremist beliefs, in an act of terrorism to
RS> terrorise those involved with abortion.
He might have, but that doesn't make it 'Christian terrorism'.
RS> Please provide the proof that John Salvi didn't shoot up places
RS> in Brookline due to his religious beliefs, in an act of
RS> horrendous terrorism against US citizens.
He might have, but that doesn't make it 'Christian terrorism'.
RS> I have more examples of Christian domestic terrorism, should you
RS> wish to try and disprove them. What about the terrorism of
RS> the lesbian and gay community of Atlanta in the past THREE WEEKS,
RS> Jim?
Evidence that this was anything but an act against a particular
individual? Or perhaps (as is being suggested) an act against the
police?
RS> Are you such a moron that you can't even see these occurences are
RS> religiously motivated?
What has this to do with Christianity?
... For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. (1 Cor 4:20)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:12:56
EID:688a 22675180
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 fb1b4750
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331aff7c
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Look around you. The evidence is plain. (Rom 1:19 NIV) since what may
JS> be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to
JS> them.
RS> This is circular logic. Fallacious, and hence invalidated.
Only to those blinded by Satan.
JS> (Rom 1:20 NIV) For since the creation of the world God's invisible
JS> qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen,
JS> being understood from what has been made, so that men are without
JS> excuse.
RS> This is circular logic. Fallacious, and hence invalidated.
Only to those blinded by Satan.
JS> JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz.
But
JS> JS> to take what is declared wrong and say openly that it is right,
I can't
JS> JS> agree with.
JS> CH> Declared wrong by whom?
JS> God.
RS> And in what place does God belong in a secular state's laws?
This is not relevant. We were discussing my opinion.
JS> CH> And based on what standard?
JS> God's
RS> And in what place does God belong in a secular state's laws?
See above response.
JS> CH> Pretty hard to get
JS> CH> an atheist to take that book seriously.
JS> I don't believe there are any. Just those afraid to admit His existance
JS> to salve there own consciences.
RS> Evidence to prove that every person who does not believe in your
RS> God or *any* god are "afraid to admit His existence"?
Look in the mirror and see all the evidence you need.
... For every man shall bear his own burden. (Gal 6:5)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: You Lose
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:15:20
EID:4c44 226751e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8d6c2c99
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331b0306
On (04 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a year
JS> involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion Practitioners
JS> I guess that should do it.
RS> The newsbyte I saw on NBC was about 3000, of which a small number
RS> had a healthy foetus *AND* a healthy mother. The overwhelming
RS> majority of cases were the foetus being terribly malformed or the
RS> mother's life and health being of utmost concern or BOTH.
Sorry dude. I saw the man say it and his top figure was 4000.
... Paul warned of those who distort the truth in Acts 20:30,31!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:06:16
EID:9cd3 2267b0c0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331e3266
MSGID: 1:229/622 332091ce
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Dan Ceppa to Charles Creager:
CC>> I do not know whether you or someone else is the originator of the
CC>> following quote, but I found it on your message. KW> * OLXWin 1.00a
CC>> * "God is an asshole"--MB
DC> You're new to this, aren't you?
I'm crossing my fingers that this is none other than the
proud papa of one Chas. Creager Jr., of CHURCH&STATE fame.
If so, we're in for a real treat.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:17:14
EID:c209 2267b220
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331f738e
MSGID: 1:229/622 33209410
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Dan Ceppa to Jim Staal:
DC> That's Saul's dogma that you follow, Jimbo. You keep forgetting
DC> about the "not change a dot or tittle" that was said by your
DC> godling. Is Saul more powerful than your golding?
Apparently. Look what he did to Jimbo.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:24:40
EID:f025 2267b300
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331ef1bc
MSGID: 1:229/622 332095f5
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ken Wiens to Marilyn Burge:
KW> Now if you mean 'fundy' in the sense of one who subscribes
KW> to inerrancy of the Bible, Jesus as the Only Way, etc. That
KW> is another story and automatically narrows the list.
That's the more accurate meaning here. Exhibition of ignorance
of elementary science and logic are other symptoms.
Hard disk working ok now?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: You Forgot To Answer
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:28:54
EID:4115 2267b380
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f0f86
MSGID: 1:229/622 33209701
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ken Wiens to David Rice:
KW> Behe. I for one would like to see a detailed critique of
KW> that book by another biochemist who comes to different
KW> conclusions.
You might address your invitation to Dr. Martin Goldberg, who
posts here. He has discussed Behe's book on occasion.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:32:38
EID:a0cb 2267b400
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f25d0
MSGID: 1:229/622 3320986a
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ken Wiens to Don Martin:
DM>> "Happy is he who dashes the brains of your little ones upon the
DM>> stones" [...]
KW> The quote comes from Psalm 137:9. You can only come to the
KW> conclusion you do by leaving out critical details. The
KW> writer of those sentiments was a captive in Babylon at
KW> the time this was written. The sentiments expressed were
KW> a reaction to how the Babylonians had treated the Hebrew
KW> children when they took Israel captive. The sentiments
KW> expressed hardly constitute bigotry in such a situation.
KW> Unless, of course, you would be willing to carry the label
KW> "bigot" for feeling like someone who had dashed your baby's
KW> head against the rocks should get the same in return.
Yes, thank you for the extended context. In a previous post you
mentioned that your own brand of "fundy" accepts the inerrancy
of the Bible. Is it inerrant, then or not?
If it has parts that are simple irrelevant soliloques, how is
one to determine fact from speculation, and how can you apply
the term "inerrant"?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:42:06
EID:9053 2267b540
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f4362
MSGID: 1:229/622 33209cc4
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ken Wiens to Dave Hamilton:
DH>> It was Paul of course, No Jesus, who deified Christ as the
DH>> messiah. Jesus never claimed to be the only son of god, not
DH>> the messiah, nor the king of the jews, save for a flippant
DH>> answer to Pilate that never acknowledged Chris's opinion.
KW> You haven't read the Gospels very carefully, have you?
I have, actually. What is it about you fundies that think that
you are the only ones who have read it? Has it not occurred to
you that some of us have studied it in such detail that we have
decided that it cannot be trusted?
Accepting for the sake of argument that Jesus existed, and that
he said what was attributed to him in the gospels:
KW> Well, for starters how about this? Note it is not from
KW> Paul or from Jesus dialog with Pilate:
KW> John 4:25-26
KW> 25The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming
KW> (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will
KW> declare all things to us."
KW> 26Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am {He."}
KW> (NAS)
That is out of context. Take it from Verse 19 through to 26. Jesus
explains to a Samaritan the nature of God as a spirit from the Jewish
perspective. This he does as a teacher.
The debate point for V26 goes to you, but across the gospels I
see Jesus going out of his way to point out that he is NOT the
Son of God, but the Son of Man, his own term for his own relationship
with God.
Difference between semantic dogma and looking at the whole picture.
KW> 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
KW> and the Word was God.
KW> 2He was in the beginning with God.
KW> 3All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing
KW> came into being that has come into being.
KW> (NAS)
A Genesis reprise. So what?
KW> John 1:14
KW> 14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld
KW> His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full
KW> of grace and truth.
KW> (NAS)
His opinion. Jesus referred to John the Baptist with ultimate
reverence and respect. Why would he do that?
KW> If you think Paul was the only one who called Jesus Messiah
KW> and deified Him you have a whole lot of study in the New
KW> Testament you are going to have to do. The above passages
KW> are just to whet your appetite.
In the past year I have abandoned my Christianity. The Bible was
always an opinion to me, and I felt that I could no longer wear
the label when I hold Mohatma Ghandi in the same esteem as Jesus
Christ, and we *know* about the life of Ghandi.
I am no longer interested in wasting any more of my life on
Christianity; it is time for me to get on and live the rest of
it. I wish you well with yours.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: book of interest
|Date: 07 Mar 97 22:57:52
EID:972e 2267b720
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331f6b91
MSGID: 1:229/622 33209d90
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of David Worrell to All:
DW> Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy
DW> Frederick Clarkson
DW> Common Courage Press/Login, dist.
DW> 1 Red Barn Road, Monroe, ME 04951
DW> 1-56751-088-4 $15.95 (pb) 1-56751-089-2 $29.95 (hc) 1-800-243-0138
Oooo, this looks good. Thanks for the post.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: The Muckin' 'o Geordie's Byre
|Date: 07 Mar 97 23:06:48
EID:309e 2267b8c0
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 331d992c
MSGID: 1:229/622 33209f89
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of John Musselwhite to Laurie Appleton:
LA>> The shovels I referred to were COAL SHOVELS and they are
LA>> presented to those who are were particularly consistent
LA>> deceivers, given to distortions and misrepresentation, false
LA>> accusations and LIARS. :-)
JM> I assume this analogy comes from Dante rather than the Bible.
JM> The fires of Gehenna were fed by the garbage of Jerusalem, not
JM> coal. B-})
Besides, there aren't enough fossil fuels for eternity. Laurie's
posts, however, may outlast coal.
PS Thanks for your efforts here and in the other echos. You are
doing our children a service.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: AL DEBUNKS APPLESAUC
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:23:00
EID:3e6e 226682e0
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Judith Bandsma <=-
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
I know, but I don't qualify as a "youngster".
... "Mr. Worf, fire phasers at Don" ... Zzzzzap!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:47:00
EID:d5cf 226755e0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Mark Kimes <=-
JB> "Minus" and "plus" are arbitrary, in counting. Switch 'em (all they
JB> are is labels differentiating two infinite sets) and everything still
JB> works the same. BUT: your above does not work when _counting_: call
JB> "white" positive, and "black" negative, and these are marbles:
JB> W W W W W (?) B B B B B
JB> 5 4 3 2 1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5
JB> ^
JB> .....There's a _what_-color marble here?
JB> It ain't a black marble; it ain't a white marble....
There is no marble there, but there nust be a _space_ for one
in the number line. That space is called "zero" and it MUST
be there.
JB> How do you tell a kid to count his marble sets, counting the black
JB> ones first and then the white ones (or vice versa), and tell him to
JB> stick a fake nonexistent marble in between the sets and count it like
JB> it was a real marble? Eh?
How do you count negative marbles, for that matter. There are no
negative objects, John. There is no zero object. But there IS a
number zero and must be.
JB> I have made no "mistake"; I am exploring the meaning of the claimed
JB> presence of 'a zero block' in a _discrete_ line of [blocks] (or
JB> marbles, for all that it matters), which connects in some way with
the
JB> continuous number line (in which NO number is a discrete block, but
JB> instead is of zero 'width').
Zero is a number. It is required in both numbering systems.
JB> Disclaimer: I am not a mathematician. I just have all my marbles, and
JB> none of them is labelled "zero." What puts you 'one up' on me is that
JB> you have one more --one illegitimate, extra, unreal-- marble than I
JB> do, which you call your "zero marble."
So you admit you have lost one of your marbles?
... Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your taglines!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: INFINITESIMALS
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:37:00
EID:26aa 22675ca0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman <=-
JB> (Please clarify your symbols: "lim A-C =0" (and lim C-B = 0). Is
JB> that "A minus C," or is that "A-to-C," or "A in closest approach to
JB> C," or what?)
He means "the limit as A approaches C is zero". That is, the two
can approach each other forever and never merge (never reach
zero separation) but the distance gets AWFULLY small...
JB> Waiting clarification but assuming "lim A-C" means "limit of A
JB> approaching B", then:
Wrong. He was giving two examples, one positive, the other negative.
JB> That's 'damned close' to what I need. Now, can you phrase that more
No, it isn't. You want a fixed minimum distance, he gave you an
ever-changing distance greater than zero (because zero is the
LIMIT).
JB> Hmm.... "In Tetrahedraverse:
JB> (dmin) = lim [A,B] if lim [A,B] = 0 "
JB> Does that make sense? ARE they still distinct points if the limit has
JB> gone all the way to actually "zero?" Doesn't that imply the limit has
JB> disappeared, since zero has been _reached_?
No. In T-Verse, lim A-B = dmin and even that is not quite correct
because dmin can be reached and a standard limit cannot.
The - should be a right arrow.
JB> Are you saying, here, that the concept of limits, used as in standard
JB> calculus, enables me to "correctly" and formally establish both a
JB> noncoalescence axiom and a minimum distance (or separation) axiom?
If
Almost. Not quite, and the difference is important.
JB> so, I will quite readily and with speed unimagined by the denizens of
JB> this echo, locate it and begin USING it. Do you have a formal
JB> reference, and.....
JB> ***************
JB> ROBERT CURRY! do you agree with this above from Mr. Sherman?
JB> ***************
Nah. Curry never agrees with anything.
... Don't worry - Cthulhu LIKES your sense of humor.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: JOHN-BOY'S LAST CHANC
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:52:00
EID:6701 22675e80
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Christopher Hughes <=-
JB> mathematically, or continuous-geometrically, I agree. But suppose
JB> that the spacetime upon which we draw our objects, and from which the
JB> microscope is made, is not coontinuous? Would your infinite-
JB> magnification microscope not then show you a lower bound on size?
JB> Might it not show you instead a "naked network" of pionts?
That IS what we see in reality, sorta, except that beyond a certain
level, EVERYthing vanishes. "There is no deep reality".
... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:15:00
EID:eec2 226761e0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Dan Ceppa <=-
JB> The first line written is "discrete" [blocks], not "numbers." The
JB> third line is the "number line." So what's wrong with it?
It needs a zero block. How can you subtract 1 from 1 without
a zero block?
DC> While you are thinking about it, try this: What whole number
DC> is it that is less than one and more than negative-one?
JB> Ain't no sech animal. (a "whole number" = zero is an oxymoron.)
Gotta be. 1 - 1 = 0
Numbers are not objects. You cannot show me a negative block
but you agree it exists. How is the zero block different from
the -1 block? Neither one "exists".
Try this visualization. Think of the number line as a stairway.
Correct way Your way
|---
|--- |---| 2
|---| 2 | 1
|---| 1 | (You do agree that 1 - (-1) = 2
|---| 0 |---| don't you?)
---| -1 ---| -1
-2 -2
Note the discontinuity in your method. You need the zero step.
... He's got Blue Wave fever and it's spreading through the message bases!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:30:00
EID:eec2 226763c0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> No, there is only one zero year, because the start of 1 BC comes
RH> before the start of the next year (which should be the zero year).
RH> You don't turn around; the numbers aways increase "left to right",
RH> even across zero.
JB> "I don't think so, Tim."
JB> All that frazzles me is having a 'zero year' while you're in it, then
JB> calling the _same_ year the 'first year' after you're out of it. It
JB> seems so arbitrarily silly to call it one thing while your in it, and
JB> another, wildly different, thing when you leave it.
That's because you think "first" should equal "one". It isn't.
The first number is "zero".
JB> 11:59:59 midnight Dec.31st 1BCE and 12:00:01 Jan.1st 1CE are two
JB> _seconds_ apart, not one year apart.
Ah, but Jan 1, 1BCE is one year from Jan 1, 1CE.
JB> Uh-uh. Looking in one direction from the 12:00 Dec.31 1BCE/00:00
JB> Jan.1 1CE _POINT_, the integers ascend 1,2,3,4,5.... Looking
JB> in the OTHER direction from the same _point_, the integers ascend
JB> 1,2,3,4,5....
Wrong. They DESCEND -1,-2,-3,-4,-5
JB> What's the difference? The year-lengths are not getting _smaller_ in
JB> the negative direction..... They're the same unit length in BCE as
JB> they are in CE, so why d'you think you have to count only forwards?
JB> Counting in the other direction, is exactly the same; obverse and
JB> inverse, they match in practice.
No they don't. -5 is smaller than -4.
JB> Another note: replace all plusses with minuses, and vice versa, and
JB> the 'number line' would look exactly the same (with or without a "zero
JB> block"). Counting "only forwards" is a mind-set, not an absolute.
JB> Direction is not inherent in the number line; it is imposed by
JB> deciding which set to stick the '+'s on and which to stick the '-'s
JB> on.
Yes, so?
RH> No, you face forward always, in the direction of increasing positive
RH> numbers. Remember, -5 is smaller than -4. There is no need to turn
JB> Remember the _year_ -5 is not in the _least_ "smaller" than the _year_
JB> minus 4, or the year +10, or the year +1997. This is a sequence only,
JB> not a measurement.
It's the sequence we're discussing, not the length of a year. This
is a counting problem.
JB> If you want to count forward all the time, then you'd best remember
JB> that in year -2, the length of the year is numerically _decreasing_
JB> (towards the beginning of the -1 year), and when you reach the fully
JB> reduced end of - 1 (BCE), and you cross zero, the year-length
JB> measurement begins numerically _increasing_. The years themselves
are
JB> the same length on both sides, but you're doing a count-_down_ on one
JB> side of zero, and a count-_up_ on the other side.
No you are not. Counting down from 1CE we go from Dec 31 to Jan 1.
Continue to count DOWN from Jan 1, 1CE and you get Dec 31, 1BCE.
As you count up from any year the remainder decreases no matter what year
you are in.
... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:36:00
EID:96a3 22669480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331e9e10
* On 01-03-97 at 15:45, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 P" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> MO> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to
KY> MO> be a good pub there. ;-)
KY> RS> Of course, and the philosophy of Hell(tm) is a much better idea
KY> RS> anyway. Who'd want to be in Ned-Flanders-ville when you can be
KY> RS> with all the fornicators, drunkards, idolaters, gays, and
KY> RS> generally *excellent* non-Christians in Hell.
KY> RS> Why, hell sounds like a delectable 24-hour-a-day, eternal party!
KY> RS> Rod "...sounds too much like fun!" Swift :)
KY> YEah, if you like eternal suffering and torture.. Sure,
KY> all you heathens that don't repent will be there, but it
KY> will be a place of darkness, and you will be alone, with
KY> none of your brothers in anti-Christ.
God must spend a HELL of a long time setting up individual,
non-linked hells for all us trillions of departed and currently
living heathens :)
Rod "...your attempt to damn me will not work :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boyco
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:38:02
EID:4c4d 226694c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331e9e8a
* On 01-03-97 at 15:50, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Cracker Barrel boyco" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> DG> Hopefully, as few as possible, since homosexuality
KY> DG> is a sin according to the
KY> DG> Bible.
KY> RS> Actually, homosexual sexual acts are a "sin", (and then,
KY> RS> that is even debatable), not homosexual sexual orientations.
KY> Interesting point, but I am afraid you got it wrong.. If
KY> one does something is his heart, then it is just as bad as
KY> doing the actual deed itself.
No it's not. If you disagree, cite something. If you can't cite
something to support your *claim*, then sit down and shut up,
moron.
Rod "...remember, I know more about your bible, because I read it
as a whole book, as opposed to your one-liner condemnatory usage
of the same book" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rutabaga: Lord of the vegies
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:44:04
EID:ca8d 22669580
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331e9ff4
* On 01-03-97 at 15:53, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel Boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> RH> RH> choice.
KY> RH> RH> Homosexuality is neither.
KY> RH> KY> There aren't any gays that are harmful to others?
KY> RH> As a percentage, I would guess the gays are lower in violent
KY> RH> behavior than straights.
KY> RS> We are starting to learn self-defense. However, we've yet to
KY> RS> resort to going around in gangs and senselessly bashing innocent
KY> RS> straight people.
KY> RS> I don't think we ever will, come to think of it :)
KY> And do you think the majority of Christians, even those very much against
KY> homosexuality, would do that to gays?
In San Jose last year, the second-largest group to which violence
was perpetrated against were gay. A few cases behind the total
number of cases for African Americans.
Did you know the majority of attacks against the gay people were
perpetrated by white males (adults and teens) with a *stated*
religiously-inspired hatred?
KY> Be against the individuals for their acts of violence, not
KY> the group they claim to be a part of.
I'm against the reason for their violence. It's the sprouting of
people like you who cause others to listen to your divisive
words, and then they enact upon them.
KY> RH> You really are sick.
KY> RS> I'm looking forward to hell, because Jesus loves me. It'll
KY> RS> really help. NOT!
KY> If He didn't love you, the chance to get saved would not be there.
Have you ever considered that I do not want to be saved by such a
selfish and childish God as yours? Imagine! He makes me gay,
and then expects me to want to be saved by Him, while his
followers are actively bashing, killing people like me?
KY> RS> Rod "...and if Jesus loves me, why does he never send flowers?"
KY> RS> Swift :)
KY> I guess he figured salvation, and gifts of the spirit, if
KY> one accepts, would be enough.
Diddums. Shove it up your ass, from whence your crap came.
Rod "...you've been told. Now carry out Mat 1:10-15 and take
your fucking powder already" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:49:06
EID:9a0b 22669620
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea122
* On 01-03-97 at 15:58, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> SA> RS> lifestyle, Ken. You DO, don't you?
KY> SA> KY> Yep.. Can a homosexual couple, naturally, have a baby?
KY> SA> Does sex necessarily need to imply attempts at procreation?
KY> RS> Yet again another good debunking. Sex does not necessarily nor
KY> RS> functionarily lead to procreation every time.
KY> Maybe not, but it is the main practical purpose for sex.
No it's not. There are many practical purposes of sex.
One possible sexual orientation...
One possible function of sex...
Is there a pattern of stupidity emerging?
Rod "...where do you get this exclusivitism from?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:53:08
EID:9a0b 226696a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea214
* On 01-03-97 at 16:00, KEN YOUNG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> DR> Yes, and many of them do.
KY> RS> Maybe we should now focus on an offense, not a defense. I'd like
KY> RS> to know why Ken thinks that it is an *unnatural* lifestyle.
KY> RS> Unnatural means not occuring in nature. By definition, Ken is
KY> RS> wrong. Homosexuality occurs naturally, in nature, all the time,
KY> RS> among humans and other animals.
KY> As I see it, unnatural means going against what nature intended.
Who cares how you see it. Unnatural means *not* occurring
naturally. That's it's definition. Get another word for the
meaning you'd like to give the word "unnatural".
You make nature out to be sentient, also. Another problem.
KY> And no, homosexuality does not occur in animals.
Yes it does. All the time.
KY> That would be saying that homosexuality is the act of sex and
KY> not any sexual preference.
My oh my, didn't you jump to the conclusion. I said that
homosexuality had been observed in nature in both animals and
humans. You assumed that it meant homosexual genital acts in
animals.
You are wrong. I was referring to homosexual coupling as well.
Check out bonobo chimps, for example. There are many others.
Try that lizard species that has evolved to be lesbian :) :)
KY> And how do you know what an animal prefers? Did you ask one?
No. We observed them, boy. Don't you learn?
Rod "...you are AGAIN debunked" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far From!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:54:10
EID:3fc0 226696c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea252
* On 02-03-97 at 01:33, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 P" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> If there ain't we'll open one, charging a hefty fee at the door
DC> DC> for the xians that are trying to sneak in for a cold one.
DC> RS> ROFL! :) :) Reminds me of that Rowan Atkinson skit where he's
DC> RS> Satan processing a new batch of arrivals in Hell...
DC> Hmmm, I don't think I know who Atkinson is, though I
DC> have heard of Rowan and Martin!
Rowan Atkinson = Mr Bean = Black Adder :) :)
Rod "...you can get it on the video Rowan Atkinson live" Swift :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:55:12
EID:868d 226696e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea290
* On 02-03-97 at 01:51, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> DC> KY> But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
DC> DC> DC> Just who was that youth running out of the garden of Gethsemane?
DC> RS> I find it strange that if Jesus loves everyone that this
DC> RS> "disciple" would get special mention not once, but a few times
:)
DC> I'm sure he was honored more than once. And quite soundly
DC> "blessed". (Or, was he the blessor?)
He was baptised anally :) He certainly got the Holy Water up
there :)
DC> DC> NIV Study Bible, Zondervan Bible Publishers, 1985, p. 1591: "The
author
DC> RS> This would be the filthy and perverse sections, yes :)
DC> RS> Thanks :)
DC> Use them in the spirit I intended. }:-)
:) :) I did :) :)
Rod "...thank you, God Dan, our provider and saviour" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Homophobic Christanic de
|Date: 06 Mar 97 18:58:14
EID:e457 22669740
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea346
* On 01-03-97 at 12:08, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Homophobic Christanic dea" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Man, I reviewed television commercials that people like Staal were
FR> fr> subjected to -- television commercials put out by the United States
FR> FR> government specifically aimed toward branding non-Christians as
FR> fr> evil Communists and demonizing homosexuals as pedophiles.
FR> rs> The religious right are still peddling the latter. Pick up a
FR> rs> copy of their "Gay Rights: Special Rights" video and view some
FR> rs> really nasty propaganda.
FR> Yes, I've read quite a bit about that hate piece. Just
FR> like the Equal Rights Amendment being shot down by fundies,
FR> they employed the same rhetoric.
Yes. The saddest thing is that the makers of "Gay Rights,
Special Rights" also made a movie about Mormons called "The God
Makers" or something silly. Well, surprise surprise, when the
Mormons and the other religious fundies surfaced in Hawaii to try
and stop same-sex marriage, they started playing "Gay Rights,
Special Rights".
... the gay people politely pointed out to the Mormons that after
their allies had succeeded in getting rid of "us" it'd be "them".
Sent them complimentary copies of "The God Makers". :) Boy,
didn't that cause discord... :)
FR> FR> I've got something like 500 quotes like this. Too cool!
FR> rs> I hope some of mine join their ranks. I note that your web pages
FR> rs> carry one of my debunks of Prewett, that I am proud of.
FR> rs> It's inspiring me to take up philosophical writing :)
FR> Absolutely! Anything from fundies which is totally evil or just plain
funny
FR> gets into the quotes. Anything solidly truthful about the
FR> death cult or entertaining also gets included. The web
FR> page will have to get updated.
I do hope so. :) :) We need all the good quotes online as we can
get :) :)
FR> rs> Rod "... after all, I don't have religion to waste my time :)" Swift
:)
FR> But then you can't use it as an excuse to rape, torture,
FR> and murder. Sad, huh?
Yes, but I'm human, unlike religious types, and hence have no
desire to rape, torture and murder.
Rod "...it's not in my nature as a respectful human" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Touched in the head
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:00:16
EID:ef52 22669800
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea3c0
* On 01-03-97 at 12:09, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Touched in the head" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> > hey, got your message and as you see, emotional experiences where
FR> > faithfull are touched by God, and prayer, and testimony of the bible,
FR> > etc. is evidence for the many faithful, and their love and faith is
FR> > of great magnitude.
FR> FR> Many more people are "touched" by their gods than
FR> FR> Christanics are "touched" by theirs.
FR> rs> Aye, Fredric, but they've all been "touched"
FR> rs> in the head if you know what I mean...
FR> It's too bad Freud has been almost totally debunked. He correctly pointed
FR> out many aspect of human life yet among the best of the
FR> best was his summation that deity belief is a mental
FR> disorder.
Well, Freud was a bit kooky too on all things sexual. :) :)
It is good that he has been debunked to the point of
non-relevance in most areas, but in areas where he's not
debunked, it's probably quite legitimate to seek concordance and
research to see if his theories pan out :)
Rod "...who knows, we might be able to make Scientology and the
Judeo-Islamo-Christanic religions a mental disorder yet!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Another homophobic
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:01:18
EID:32d8 22669820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea3fe
* On 01-03-97 at 12:11, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Another homophobic" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> ~*~ Is it true that 25% of your gender is gay? - George Boyles
FR> rs> Oh boy. I wish I was here for that gem of a line, Fredric?
FR> Another homophobic bigot will open his mouth for you. Er,
FR> well, you know what I mean. I'm sure that if you prod
FR> Bathroom Staal enough you can get him to express his true
FR> bigotry and hatred.
But you already have him quoted :) :) I've been doing a good job
getting Ken to go around the twist :) :)
Rod "...and he's providing heaps of quotes :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Public Schools
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:03:20
EID:1e9d 22669860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea478
* On 01-03-97 at 12:14, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Public Schools" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> Christianity, Islam, and Barney-worshippers will
FR> rs> be high up on the list of barbarous religions! :)
FR> The Secular Humanist Bulletin commented upon a school distric which
allows
FR> religious materials to be distributed one day a year. The
FR> ACLU and others are fighting the violation of law yet I
FR> wrote a letter tio the editor suggesting they shouldn't...
FR> that it would be a good way to start destroying the death
FR> cult by showing how all religions are no different than any
FR> other; that they're not in any way unique to anything which
FR> came before them.
FR> Teach people the history of the Christanic death cult and
FR> we stop Christianity.
Christianity is a social disease spread by human contact. It's
able to be cured by spreading its cure in the same way --
education about the abuse of Christ-i(ns)a(n)ity.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the education!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death is life's answer to the question "Why?"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: He's right, dear.
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:04:22
EID:28b4 22669880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea4b6
* On 01-03-97 at 12:18, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "He's right, dear." in echo Holysmoke:
FR> JS> Hi, Fred. How's it going? A bit insecure? You have to bash a poor
FR> JS> Christian to get your day going? Let me tell you this: After a hard
week
FR> JS> of deadlines and working 4 jobs, PRAISE GOD! HE IS GOOD! Life is
good.
FR> JS> Have a good week.
FR> I don't recall reading this pool of resentment.
Oh, really? Sounds like you're having connectivity problems.
Ask Jimbozo if he actually said it. He'll deny, of course :)
FR> rs> I like you Jim. Whenever we think you've been pacified,
FR> rs> you come out with the darnedest of hateful lines.
FR> Pagan women _deserve_ to be beaten to a bloody pulp, you know. Too
mouthy.
Yes, and remember to "die furd", because you exposed his homo-hatred. :)
FR> rs> Did you have Christian guiding in the
FR> rs> posting of this attack on Fredric? Hmmm?
FR> Sure looks like it to me.
Praise Jesus, and pass the flamethrower... My oh my! Jim has a TANK!
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not dead, I'm metabolically-challenged
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ooooh! Such a _powerful
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:07:24
EID:a6a9 226698e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea56c
* On 01-03-97 at 12:22, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ooooh! Such a _powerful_" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> js> I am at least man enough to admit where my faults lay.
FR> FR> Let's see if you can...
FR> FR> #1 Admit your a homophobic bigot
FR> rs> I have evidence of this from IRC Logs :)
FR> Keep them! I've made the mistake of not archiving his
FR> posts in the past yet now, since January, I've been
FR> archiving everything. These bigots like to mouth off and
FR> then later deny what they said later specifically so they
FR> can pretend their betters are lying about them.
I think I sent the logs here :) :) They were a scream :)
Now Jimson never talks to me. Lives up to his IRC nick of
PoutyCat :)
FR> FR> ~*~ Anyone who is not a true Christian, is by default,
FR> FR> Satanic. - Steve Winter
FR> rs> Ooog.. A Steve Winter quote that doesn't
FR> rs> have "false Christian scum (tm)" in it...
FR> One of the few. Such evil. And I wish I could say it's a
FR> Winterism yet it seems nearly all Christanic death cultists
FR> believe (and live) this evil.
Yes, and they often repeat it while pointing at others who claim
Christian faith. I wonder what their God would think of all this
divisive non-Ecumenicalism :)
Rod "...The Judean Popular People's Front, The People's Front of
Judea, The People's Popular Front of Judea, etc, etc" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Clean mind, clean body. Take your pick.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Jim Staal's possible hom
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:12:26
EID:ae96 22669980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea69a
* On 01-03-97 at 12:28, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Jim Staal's possible homo" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> ~*~ Call me a thief and I'll behave like one... - Jim Staal
FR> FR> You're gay. (This should be interesting.) - Karl Schneider
FR> rs> *ROFL!*. He's not started behaving like one yet, has he Fredric?
FR> rs> What a shame. I do think it would be interesting, as Karl said
FR> rs> :)
FR> It seems the most rabidly vocal homophobics are _always_ caught
FR> with their dicks up some boy's ass eventually.
How eloquently put... I've noticed most moral-making people
speak about their vices. I've always found it ironic.
FR> I opine that Staal quite probably entertained homosexual
FR> activities as a youth yet, like Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart,
FR> spit homophobic hatred and bigotry to deny something truthful about
FR> themselves. And we can toss Oral Robberts onto that pile
FR> along with about half a million other Christanic masters.
Yeah. Sounds about right. It fits. It's called denialism, and
the best bit is that most people who *are NOT* gay aren't vocally
denying of the fact, but merely calm in denying it. The people
who *are* gay and open don't deny, but merely confirm casually
the fact.
Now, the only ones we have left to occupy the screaming
homophobic middle are the people who are either in denial over
their sexuality, or are desperately psychologically-imbalanced to
the point of paranoia over someone else having gay affection for
them... The latter being a very few people.
FR> What's an irony is that he's possibly in your camp; he's possibly gay.
Yes, but that's ok. Jesus had special disciples whom "he loved"
:) Jim can be one of those.
After all, he's married to Wilbur, and likes hanging out at
leather bars. He's admitted that. That's half-way out of the
closet already :) :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the mayo!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "It's 50-50! Better odds than at the Dabo table" - Quark
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Abortion-clinic Bombing
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:14:28
EID:cf2d 226699c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea714
* On 01-03-97 at 12:31, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Abortion-clinic Bombing" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> > Today (16 January 1996) ABC News World News Tonight with Peter
FR> > Jennings is reporting two abortion clinic bombings in Atlanta.
FR> > I won't even give you odds on a bet that this is some
FR> > Christian-inspired hatred.
FR> Is there ever any doubt as to who's responsible?
Well, it's now apparent that the "Army of God" is taking
responsibility. These people are Christians. Yet another case
of DOMESTIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM for Jimson to deny :)
Just like the gay nightclub bombing which they claim to have done
also. More DOMESTIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM :)
FR> > Ironic, isn't it. Pro-life people attempting to destroy and
FR> > possibly injure or kill living people. Praise Jesus for the
FR> > loving US Christian domestic anti-abortionist terrorists!
FR> Traditional Family Values.
A new bumpersticker....
ATTENTION CHRISTIANS! Hate *AND*
terrorism are NOT family values! :) :)
I want one for my car :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the SCUD!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:17:30
EID:3fe5 22669a20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea7ca
* On 01-03-97 at 12:46, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Irc Log Fun!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Let's see if you can...
FR> FR> #1 Admit your a homophobic bigot
FR> JS> I am not.
FR> So much for his previous claim, huh?
Yes, isn't it. Jimson is a bible believer, the bible has
contradictions, therefore Jimson is allowed to be contradictory :)
I note you have found the IRC log posts of mine, as mentioned in
another post of mine :) :)
FR> rs> Oh yes you are Jimbot! :) Of course, I was faking being Laurie
FR> rs> Appleton to you, but this was riotously funny:
FR> >-> *katpurr* my partner is playing along :)
FR> >-> *katpurr* enjoy :)
FR> Idiot Staal has no clue -- even if he's told.
FR> Even while he's being talked about publically he doesn't
FR> acquire a clue as to what people are saying.
He's never seen that log with the /msgs between me and others.
We were all laughing about how gullible he was :) :)
FR> > *KatPurr* Shal I go into my 'feminazi sendup?
FR>
You must thank Katherine for playing along. She did help :) :)
Nearly as good as Steingrobe thinking I was Laurie Appleton
online :) :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Atlanta Bombings
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:19:34
EID:715d 22669a60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea846
* On 02-03-97 at 04:41, DAVID WORRELL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Atlanta Bombings" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> RS> "Army of God" threatens``total war'' against the federal government
DW> [...]
DW> RS> In the latest bombing, an explosive device packed with nails
went
DW> Heh. Total war, huh?
DW> "I see your cheesy-assed amateurish pipe bomb and raise you a TLAM(*)."
DW> (*) Tomahawk Land Attack Missile, for those not into such
DW> things. As opposed to a Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile (TASM).
DW> Check with Saddam Hussein about performance details.
I do know about the Tomahawk cruise missile systems :) Very
effective. Got rid of the SCUD-Stud's duds really quick :)
Rod "...but the unfortunate thing is that you really cannot
strategically target Atlanta until you have confirmed
co-ordinates. After that, carpet bomb the fuckers." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't buy furs. It takes trees to make protest signs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:21:36
EID:1cdc 22669aa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea8c0
* On 01-03-97 at 21:54, ED MILLS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel Boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> RS> I'd say lately that gay people have been taking self-defense
EM> RS> courses, and learning to "bash back" to stop an attacker. Unlike
EM> RS> the 70s and 80s, where gay bashings just "happened", gay people
EM> RS> aren't willing to take it anymore. Unfortunately, that now means
EM> RS> we're being gunned down instead of bashed. Of course, gays are
EM> RS> now carrying guns :)
EM> And I would like to warmly recommend the Ruger SP-101 with a 2" or 3"
EM> barrel for the fella who wants a simple, fast-deploying, reliable,
EM> safe, powerful, concealable and very well-made .38/.357 carry piece.
EM> Pack it with Federal or Cor-Bon .357 JHP's; they'll knock a fag-basher
EM> backwards several feet while depositing his innards all over the sidewalk
EM> behind him.
When you can take down a kangaroo at 400 yards with a double
barrel shot gun, well, the aiming wouldn't be that hard on
getting the common garden-variety homophobe.
Praise Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Rod "...give me that ol' time religion -- the one at the end of a
gun! Yahoooooooooooo!!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death is life's answer to the question "Why?"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:23:38
EID:f259 22669ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea93a
* On 03-03-97 at 19:28, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> RS> Well, you know the way I get rid of them, you can adopt the same
SQ> RS> measures to suit your needs ;) :)
SQ> Silly man, I can't "choose to be gay." kidding> I'm beyond the point of trying to be cute with
SQ> them. These are dangerous people who don't understand the
SQ> meaning of the word "No," and I'm at the point where I'm
SQ> annoyed at having to play games with them.
You could play sexual encounter technique four. Ask the Mormon
lads if they'd like to make it a threesome/foursome with you and
your wife :) :)
An equally interesting proposal. You could even make up
"scenarios" you and your wife would like to try with them :) :)
SQ> Spent some time in a lawyer's office today discussing this
SQ> very situation, in fact. :)
Very very good. It's about time you took action to get them to
cease and desist.
SQ> RS> I've always thought it was fun to ask the Mormons about their
SQ> RS> holy underwear of protection....
SQ> D'you believe in Jesus?
SQ> Why...yes, I do.
SQ> Well, you're gonna meet 'im.
:) :) :) Did you ever have to keep a wank diary, Steve? :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Focus On The Family
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:25:40
EID:8935 22669b20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ea9b4
* On 02-03-97 at 20:08, BECKE BOYER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "RE: FOCUS ON THE FAMILY M" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> RS> Truly gutwrenching hatred. It'd make you sick. In fact, here's
BB> RS> a site to make you sick:
BB> RS> http://www.christiangallery.com/
BB> Ah, the Creator's Rights Party.
Yes... :) :)... Fun!
BB> RS> Select the "pornographic" link that they describe... The one
BB> RS> about the US going to the dogs... (Well, the pictures show the
BB> RS> *galz* going to the dogs :) *laugh*)
BB> You mean sick1.html? Loved the Christian porno.
I can't believe she was taking a dump. :) :)
BB> Actually, I did get a chuckle out of the "Babies--fun to make,
BB> fun to eat" jpg.
Yes, wasn't it :)
BB> RS> That little group, while being anti-abortion, anti-lesbian,
BB> RS> anti-bestiality, anti-everythingelse, and anti-gay, have a
BB> RS> solution...
BB> RS> "Arresting faggots".
BB> RS> Yep, rounding up the gay *males* only, and sorting them out.
BB> RS> Apparently the rest will disappear.
BB> Actually, their agenda is far more sinister than that. Not only do they
want
BB> to round up homosexuals, but also fornicators, blasphemers, those with
BB> alternate religious beliefs, etc. And they don't want to stop at arresting
BB> them--they actually want to execute them all. Check some more of the
BB> different reconstructionalist pages. You'll see.
:) :) I know. I do like to surf their side of the web for a
good laugh :) :)
BB> ... Your sacred cow is my next Double Whopper with cheese.
Yes! Another true BK afficionado! :) :)
Rod "...the ONLY burger to buy!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves? Not on my salary he doesn't.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:36:42
EID:af26 22669c80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eac4a
* On 01-03-97 at 18:00, MARILYN BURGE wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> MB> Now we are back to my assertion that the State has no compelling
MB> MB> interest in who anybody marries. And, to exclude half the
MB> MB> population from consideration from those who are is making that
MB> MB> personal choice is an unconstitutional intrusion into their
MB> MB> personal lives.
MB> JS> Question: which 'half' of the population are you refering to?
MB> Well, in my case I suppose I'd be referring to the female half.
MB> The Government has no business making an arbitrary decision as
MB> to whom I can pick to marry, regardless of gender. The
MB> Government simply has no compelling interest in the matter, one
MB> way or the other. It is a personal decision, having nothing to
MB> do with the orderly administration of Government.
Apparently, Marilyn, the Republicans claim to want to get the
Government out of the personal lives of people, except, of
course, if the lives being considered are enemies of the church.
If that's the case, then they want government to intrude in as
many ways as possible.
Rod "...does it make sense? No. But they're Republicans, work
it out!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * REALITY.SYS corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: hateful
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:41:44
EID:e3cc 22669d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ead78
* On 01-03-97 at 01:21, ROBERT CURRY wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "hateful" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> with: Rod Swift
RC> KY> I may hate the lifestyle, but not the inidividuals.
RC> Why are you so hateful?
I wonder if he will answer the question :)
Rod "...praise Jesus for his frank admission!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Could crop circles be the work of a cereal killer?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:41:46
EID:1170 22669d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ead7a
* On 01-03-97 at 15:37, DAN CEPPA wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT,
on the topic of "Promisekritters" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> KW> And I don't think that a PK type is any more capable of learning
than
DC> KW> a pig is of singing.
DC> Doesn't Jim Staal claim to be able to sing?
Doesn't Jim Staal claim to be a pig?
Rod "...one of those mysogynistic ones at least :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't get stuck in a closet. Wear yourself out.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:43:48
EID:a8e8 22669d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eadf4
* On 01-03-97 at 10:11, JOE SEATTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Freedom of choice" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> KY> Well, I for one, never said it was a mental disease. Just a form
of
JS> KY> confusion. Is it a mental problem? Possibly.. But a disease?
That's
JS> so you're saying being gay is like being a christian? i don't think
many
JS> gay people would like that...
JS> KY> silly.. But then, you also probably believe that people against
JS> KY> homosexuality think they can catch it!
JS> KY> Also, if it was a mental disease, they wouldn't be able to help
being
JS> KY> gay, and they can..
JS> no, they can't... they can marry someone of the opposite sex, but they'd
JS> still be gay... just like jesus...
I wonder. If someone managed to "repair me" and make me
"straight", would Ken allow me to marry his daughter?
Ken, do you have an answer?
Rod "...just wondering if it'd be no :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * REALITY.SYS corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:45:50
EID:81e8 22669da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eae6e
* On 27-02-97 at 05:47, DOUG LEE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "A toast to dracula" in echo Holysmoke:
DL> RS> I'm sinless, you gutless and worthless piece of trash. Care to
DL> RS> try your salvation guilt trip on someone who has never been
DL> RS> touched by the scourge of Christian faith, weakling?
DL> KY> I am strong, as I have the power of God on my side. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< KY> You, on the other hand, must be a very weak and insecure person.
/\
DL> KY> Otherwise, you would not feel the need to attack soemthing you
know/\
DL> KY> nothing about.
/\
DL> KY> You're sinless? You really need to do something about ego, if
you /\
DL> KY> think you are perfect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DL> Talk about Hubris.
Ken is filled with the perfect salvation of Jesus, and all the
tautological and contradictory bullshit that goes with it :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the canned laughter!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:49:52
EID:2386 22669e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eaf60
* On 02-03-97 at 10:13, JOE SEATTER wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
JS> RS> Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
JS> RS> in Jesu..
JS> JS> Evidence???
JS> well, lets see... mcveigh supposedly admitted to doing it, they have
JS> witnesses that say they saw him rent the truck, he belonged to a fundy
JS> militia... nah, nothing that will hold up in court there...
You must remember, Joe, that Jimson snipped the context of the
message so that he can conveniently ignore it.
He believes that a number of hateful acts, performed by
Christians as part of their faith being carried out and against
US citizens to cause terror, is not "domestic Christian
terrorism". Hence, I wrote what I wrote, showing his denial to
be a joke.
Here's the context:
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
* On 06-02-97 at 18:19, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> RS> So you support domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> JS> I know of none.
JS> RS> So the Oklahoma Bombing was not domestic Christian terrorism?
JS> RS> Do you know the meaning of the words "domestic Christian
JS> RS> terrorism"? Here's a pointer. Domestic means "carried out
JS> RS> inside the US-borders by people who reside in the US". Christian
JS> RS> means "people who claim to ascribe to the Christian faith and/or
JS> RS> pronounce that they have performed an act for the Christian faith
JS> RS> or deity-construct". Terrorism can be defined as "an act of
JS> RS> terrorising or systematic use of violence and intimidation to
JS> RS> achieve some goal or political change by means of terror".
JS> RS> Restating the question, do you think that the Oklahoma bombing
JS> RS> was "an act used to cause terror by a US resident towards a
JS> RS> US-based target, the resident acting due to their religious
JS> RS> convictions?"
JS> Absolute absurdity on your part. No basis in fact whatsoever.
Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh, err,
Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim fundamental faith
in Jesu.., uh, err, um... in Darwin, who did the bomb...ummm...
geological dynamism to make everyone feel comfortable and safe,
and all kindler and gentler.
There. All the basis of fact, as you percieve. :)
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod "...remember, Jimson is a Christian, and hence inherently
dishonest about all things where he's proven wrong" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Freedom of choice
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:49:54
EID:b86b 22669e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eaf62
* On 01-03-97 at 01:36, KEN YOUNG wrote to CHRISTOPHER HUGHES,
on the topic of "Re: Freedom of choice" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> > There is something to be said for sticking with what you naturally
KY> > have. Many people are black, that is how it was
KY> > meant to be, and we
KY> > are not change that.
KY> CH> Many people are gay, that is how it was meant to be, and we are
not to
KY> CH> change that. *shrug*
KY> If you were born gay, then maybe. But no one was.
You're evidence that he was not? Your evidence that NO ONE was.
Where was your last scientific journal reference on this issue?
Oh, that's right, you've FAILED to present one.
Rod "...I thought not" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Time is an illusion of the manufacturers of space
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Exemplifying example
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:54:56
EID:7d13 22669ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb090
* On 01-03-97 at 01:41, KEN YOUNG wrote to CHRISTOPHER HUGHES,
on the topic of "Re: Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> CH> Great. Get your laws out of my bedroom, and I'll be more than willing
KY> CH> to get my boot out of your ass.
KY> I'd be happy to, especially since they are not my laws. I would be
against
KY> most laws based on morality. I may find your lifestyle
KY> immoral, but I have no right to dictate my morals. If I
KY> can't be for your rights, how can I be for my own?
Are you for equal marriage rights?
KY> CH> I want to marry because I want my relationship recognised as equally
KY> CH> valid and important to society as all of the other lasting relationships
KY> CH> are. I want to marry him because I love him. I want to marry him
because
KY> CH> I want to ensure that when he needs me, I can be there for him.
I want
KY> CH> to marry him because I want to know that he can be there for me,
when I
KY> CH> need.
KY> CH> Do I want those benefits? Yes. But is that the _reason_ for wanting
to
KY> CH> marry? No. No more so for us than it would be for any other couple.
KY> Fair enough. I do think many want the right for those benefits, though.
But it should be their choice. A lot of heterosexuals do not
marry for the reasons you think they should.
KY> But, you can still be married, just not legally.
Why shouldn't it be legal and equal marriage before the law for
ALL couples?
KY> I personally do not find a state sanctioned marriage to be
KY> of great importance. It's only a piece of paper, after all.
We do. But since you place no value on civil marriage, and the
1500 special treatments under the laws that it provides, then I'm
sure you will immediately begin lobbying your representatives and
senators (federally) to overturn DOMA, and to immediately
legalise all marriages under the law.
KY> CH> Well, my freedom of religion is being abridged. Your damn religiously-
KY> CH> motivated laws are getting in the way of my life. So get your stupid-ass
KY> CH> zealotry the hell out of my life.
KY> Don't blame me just because some go way too far. In fact,
KY> some of them, like the Wildmon crew, even make me nervous..
I'm sorry, but while you stand around and do nothing to voice
your opposition to them, you are complicit.
Complicity that you can solve by opposing them.
KY> CH> Do you wear a wedding ring? Do your parents? Why do they insist
on
KY> CH> making such a big deal out of being straight?
KY> How is a wedding ring, an advertisement for one's sexual preference?
Because only heterosexuals can enter into it, remember? :)
Rod "...don't you remember?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boyco
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:54:58
EID:4c4d 22669ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb092
* On 01-03-97 at 01:52, KEN YOUNG wrote to CHRISTOPHER HUGHES,
on the topic of "Re: Cracker Barrel boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> > Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay,
you
KY> > cannot be saved.
KY> CH> I'm sure the MCC will be suprised to hear this one.
KY> Not really.. I am sure they have heard it before.
Do you know what the UFMCC is?
Rod "...I thought not" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:55:00
EID:74fa 22669ee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb094
* On 01-03-97 at 01:53, KEN YOUNG wrote to CHRISTOPHER HUGHES,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> CH> How so? Examples, please? And if you think this is an issue, then
why
KY> CH> do so many people tell me "That's fine; I'm straight", without
any
KY> CH> reason, if I happen to mention that I'm gay?
KY> The biggest examples would be events like your gay rights marchs
KY> and rallies.
Read your First Amendment. Read also the bit about the people
being able to make representations to their representatives.
KY> Affection I can see, but it is another thing entirely,
KY> going around promoting your lifestyle.
Promoting our *equality*.
Rod "...please define this "lifestyle" again, Ken. You haven't
so far..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:05:02
EID:9a0b 2266a0a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb2ee
* On 01-03-97 at 11:37, KEN YOUNG wrote to SUE ARMSTRONG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay,
you
KY> KY> cannot be saved.
KY> SA>
KY> SA> Oh, lovely. So just by being homosexual, a person is condemned
to
KY> SA> hell? What a nice theology you have there, matey. You just stated
KY> SA> that it's impossible for a homosexual ever to avoid going to hell.
KY> Homosexuality goes too much against the scriptures, so it
KY> would not be possible for them to get saved and remain gay.
No it does not. Homosexual sex acts go against the scripture.
Homosexuality is completely biblical. Check out the love romance
between Jonathan and David. Check out the Book of John.
KY> Gay people do have a chance. But that chance is by getting
KY> saved, and once saved, they will no longer be gay.
No. You said they didn't have a chance. That they were already
going to hell, and that gays don't have a chance of salvation.
Remember?
KY> KY> the person and one's actions. Just because I am
KY> KY> against what a person
KY> KY> does, does not mean I am against that person.
KY> SA> But your god obviously _is_. Meanwhile, your god was supposed to
KY> SA> have created _everything_, and that includes homosexuals - and
KY> SA> homosexuality. "Everything" means just that - everything.
KY> God created everything good, at least according to the Bible.
Yes, but you want to disagree with your bible. That is the point
Sue was making.
KY> And He created everything originally. There are unnatural
KY> things He didn't create.
Who created the unnatural things? Your bible said he created
EVERYTHING.
What part of "everything created by god" don't you understand?
Probably the same part of "ALL men are created equal" that you
can't understand when it comes to equal rights for gay people.
You really disappoint me with your hatred, Ken.
Rod "...how typical!" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bigots: those who confuse personal tastes with morality
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:19:04
EID:4da6 2266a260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb638
* On 01-03-97 at 01:21, ROBERT CURRY wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> RC> So you've never kissed a girl (or boy, whichever you prefer)
RC> RC> in public, since that would be advertising your sexuality?
RC> KY> I see I have been misunderstood. I do not mean there is
RC> KY> anything wrong with public affection for each other. Even
RC> KY> with gays, though it may make me uncomfortable, that should
RC> KY> be allowed, and I do not see it as pushing their ideas
RC> KY> down anyone's throat.
RC> And marriage? Do you think it is the business of the state or anyone
RC> else to discriminate against gays and lesbians who wish to marry?
From all questioning, he's flip-flopping on both sides of the
fence. How typical.
RC> I'm curious to test the limits of your apparant reasonableness.
I am too. :) Further, if he does agree with it, to the extent
he's willing to advocate and lobby for his view to be put in
place.
I suspect the easy way out is to claim yes, but sit back and do
nothing knowing that his bretheren will achieve what he really
wants -- the denial of equal rights to gays. But by saying he
supports the equal rights, then he can look like he's agreeing
with the concept while being complicit in the removal of equality
as his brothers destroy the rights of a certain group of citizens.
RC> KY> Rather, what I am speaking of is those gays that make a scene
RC> KY> about being gay
RC> I have no idea what you mean. Could you elaborate? What kind of
RC> "scene" do you mean?
The scene that we, like, are in public and, like, exist.
He means marches and demonstrations demanding equal rights for
gay people.
Of course, if he said that he hates the way blacks "make a scene"
about wanting rights, we'd call him a racist.
If he said he hates the way women "make a scene" about their
rights, we'd call him a sexist bastard.
He cannot tolerate legitimate (and more importantly) CONSTITUTIONAL
displays of political demonstration. He is therefore bigoted
towards the protesting group.
RC> KY> and those that make a point of telling everyone their sexual
RC> KY> preference, when there is no need.
RC> For example? What qualifies as such a "need" and what is wrong
RC> with letting others know something about yourself even when there
RC> is no such "need?"
He's made the statement that he doesn't "hate" gays, though hate
is in the eye of the one in which the hatred is being directed at.
He's now made the statement that others don't "need" something,
though need is in the eye of the determinant under pressure of need.
He makes blatant statements out of ignorance. Both of them are.
He claims he does not hate. I *feel* hated by him.
He claims I don't need to be public about my sexual orientation.
I feel I *do* need to be, because it's a fact of my existence.
He's an ignorant fool. That's what it proves.
RC> I'm not sure what exactly is disturbing you, Ken. Could you make
RC> it a little more clear?
I bet he cannot.
RC> KY> FIne, if you are a guy, kiss your boyfriend, has disgusting
RC> KY> as I might think it is.
RC> Somehow I doubt that your feelings are really relevant to those of
RC> two men (or two women) who are in love and committed to each other,
RC> unless you happen to be one of the men, of course. Clearly your
RC> aversion is your own problem, not to be thrown in the face of those
RC> who have done nothing whatsoever to harm you. Live and let live.
He cannot. He is Christian. Letting people live is *not their
way*. Interfering, destroying, attacking -- that's the only
think Christians of his ilk know.
RC> KY> But just don't try to plug your lifestyle wherever you go,
RC> KY> and that goes for any sexual preference..
RC> "Plug?" Whatever do you mean? "Hi, I'm Ken, and I'd like to take
RC> this opportunity while walking by you on the sidewalk to plug
RC> my sexual orientation. It's the very best one there is (for me)."
Ken's been doing a lot of plugging of how "good" his sexual
orientation is... claiming that it's the NATURAL one, claiming
it's the one that EVERYONE has, claiming that it's the one that
EVERYONE should have.
That's promoting a sexual orientation. I've only promoted
diversity, tolerance, equality and understanding of other sexual
orientations. Ken has promoted unitarianism, intolerance,
inequality and propaganda.
RC> RC> The world will be a better place, I think, when self-righteous
RC> RC> prudes quit advertising their bigoted prudery.
RC> KY> If you mean against homosexuality,
RC> I mean bigoted prudery of ANY and ALL types. What concern is it
RC> of yours to interfere in the most personal relationships of others
RC> who have done you no harm?
But, it's his RELIGION! He reckons he should have that right.
RC> Why do you advertise your phobias and
RC> insecurities and hatreds as if you were instructed by a god to make
RC> this world a living hell for your selected victims?
Because translating fear into an oppressive regime is always the
best way to hide ever having to deal with the problem of fear.
RC> Why can't you find peace in a world where other people are free
RC> to follow their hearts?
Because he can't. It's impossible. He just *has* to oppress
someone. If he doesn't, the purpose for his "underdog" religion
would no longer exist.
RC> You said it was better when GAYS kept quiet. Why do you pick on gays?
Because if we kept quiet, he'd be able to oppress us without any
opposition. He'd prefer it if we shut up, either by being
instilled with fear, at the end of a gun, or with the removal of
our citizenry.
Rod "...be warned, Ken's final solution is not unlike that of
Hitler. As long as we're 'gone' the problem is solved. How we
become 'gone' is irrelevant" Swift :( :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:22:06
EID:d18f 2266a2c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb6ee
* On 01-03-97 at 10:15, FREDRIC RICE wrote to PATRIOT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> pat> And what is so difficult about not making a point
FR> pat> of telling everyone what your sexual preference is?
FR> Christanic death cultists forced the issue by succesfully
FR> denying innocent millions equal rights and legal protection
FR> under the law. Out of nothing more nobel than hatred and
FR> evil bigotry, the Christanic death cult has dictated that
FR> homosexuals are unable to be recognized by the State as
FR> married and thus they share an unfair tax burdon not levied
FR> against their heterosexual equals.
The GAO has found 1049 US federal laws containing THOUSANDS of
special rights for married couples. It's not just the tax
burden. For example, Christopher and I live 8,000 miles apart
because of the fact we cannot marry, and hence we cannot sponsor
for immigration, for example.
FR> But then we're talking Christianity here... the single most
FR> evil and deadly construct ever to be created by mankind.
Correct. 100% correct.
Rod "...and wait until you read a later message of mine on what
happens when religious right wingers get into power" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:24:08
EID:b2f6 2266a300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb768
* On 01-03-97 at 17:40, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Mormonism IS Christianit" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> I have asked you many questions in this forum, Jelly. You
MG> have managed to pretend that I never aksed them. But I
MG> wnat you to answer this one.
MG> How does your stinking god punish homosexuality without
MG> punishing homosexuals?
Simple. God sends people like Ken.
People like Ken *KILL* the homosexuals, or deprive them of their
rights or humanity.
God has PUNISHED the homosexuality. Ken punished the
homosexuals. God didn't punish the homosexuals, Ken did.
Simple. And it's Christian logic, too :)
Rod "...I think it's the straightest gay answer you'll get" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: R Daily Xtian Persecutio
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:25:10
EID:9231 2266a320
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eb7a6
* On 01-03-97 at 17:37, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "R Daily Xtian Persecutio" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY> Well, love is a very powerful thing, and you cannot always say
MG> KY> who you will fall in love with. Not that I believe in marriages
MG> KY> of mixed faiths, because I don't. But a Pagan and a Christian
MG> KY> could fall in love, and get married for that reason.
MG> That's mighty white of you, Jelly.
I note he tolerates marriages between Christians and
non-Christians but not between people of the same-sex.
I wonder why?
Rod "...*sigh* more of his bigotry on display" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Kenny's CONTRADICTION!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:20:12
EID:b675 2266aa80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec48c
First Ken said:
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay, you
KY> cannot be saved.
Note that GAYS CANNOT BE SAVED... That gays won't have a chance
to be saved...
Then he says:
KY> Gay people do have a chance. But that chance is by getting
KY> saved, and once saved, they will no longer be gay.
He now claims GAYS CAN BE SAVED... That they DO have a chance.
Rod "...he's lying out both sides of his mouth now, kids! We've
got him on the run!!!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Death, are you for it or against it?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Kenny's CONTRADICTION!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:20:14
EID:6419 2266aa80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec48e
First Ken said:
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay, you
KY> cannot be saved.
Note that GAYS CANNOT BE SAVED... That gays won't have a chance
to be saved...
Then he says:
KY> Gay people do have a chance. But that chance is by getting
KY> saved, and once saved, they will no longer be gay.
He now claims GAYS CAN BE SAVED... That they DO have a chance.
Rod "...he's lying out both sides of his mouth now, kids! We've
got him on the run!!!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Death, are you for it or against it?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Homosexuals Also Repr
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:26:16
EID:03de 2266ab40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec5f8
* On 28-02-97 at 16:14, ROGER HUNTER wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "HOMOSEXUALS ALSO REPR" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> FR> I don't think you understand what _I_ said. Homosexual couples
RH> FR> routinely have babies _together_. And I'm further curious why
you're
RH> FR> having difficulty understanding this.
RH> Perhaps because it's impossible?
RH> Let us define terms.
RH> 1) A couple is two individuals.
RH> 2) A homosexual couple is two individuals of the same sex,
RH> where each person is homosexual.
RH> 3) A heterosexual couple is two individuals of opposite sexes,
RH> where neither person is homosexual.
RH> 4) A gay man and lesbian woman is an odd couple!
RH> Having babies together is impossible in case 2) without outside
RH> help and (I assume) distasteful in case 4)
RH> Where is my error?
Your error is assumption 2. A homosexual couple can be any
couple of the same sex, or a couple in which each member is
homosexual. A homosexual couple could be a gay man and a lesbian
who are having heterosexual genital intercourse.
I know of many situations in which 4 is quite real.
You have also forgotten about bisexual people.
Rod "...but it's ok. We'll forgive you :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:29:18
EID:8f8d 2266aba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec6ae
* On 02-03-97 at 00:46, KEN YOUNG wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER,
on the topic of "Ken Young: Poster child" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY>Then, I take it, you deny that any homosexuals chose to be gay?
KY> KS> All you have to do, Jelly, is find one.
KY> Well, would a bisexual do? As much as I hate it, I do have
KY> a friend who is rethinking her views on sexuality, and has
KY> said she is now a bisexual.
No slipping dear. We're talking about all sexual orientations.
Gay people are not "bisexuals". Neither are bisexual people
"straights who can't decide".
The question put to you was whether you had approached any
homosexual people to canvass their views?
If not, I suggest you start looking at some of the studies of
people who have done it before you and *TIME AND TIME* again have
received a result that 98% or so of gay people say they *never
chose*.
That's the *FACTS*, Ken. You are free to deny them, but you are
conclusively and undeniably wrong.
Rod "...and it's your head which should hang in shame the next
time a gay person gets beaten to death, or so that they can never
walk again, or that they have disfiguring injuries -- because
some little shithead kid or even adult believed you when you said
'faggots choose'. Hang your head in fucking shame, Ken, because
you are part of the problem. Just like seemingly innocent
Germans were just as much part of the problem of propaganda
spreading..." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * When talking nonsense try not to be serious
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:34:20
EID:f828 2266ac40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec7dc
* On 01-03-97 at 23:17, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> KY> FUnny, I must have missed the news stories of the "Straight Rights"
DH> KY> rallies..
DH> You would, if gays were as adamant as you are about getting
DH> the rest of the population to do what *they* want.
Ken doesn't realise he's part of a side that wishes to do a bit
of "ethnic/cultural cleansing". He spreads their propaganda for
them, repeats the propaganda, yet never sees the blood on his
hands or the complicity in how his lies spread to the ears of the
gullibles equates to a gay bashing.
In urban San Jose, more than 430 gay bashings last year. And that's in
a city in a pretty liberal state!
I wonder how many victims of the Christian gay bashings Ken could
face, and hear their words about how they were beaten.
Would he hang his head in shame, or be proud of what his religion
is doing? For now, he's happy to not have to even deal with the
consequences of the litany of lies.
Out of sight, out of mind. That's what it is for him. He
blindly and ignorantly keeps spewing the lies that is killing and
beating people.
He should hang his head in shame.
Rod "...shame on you, Ken. Shame on your religion. Shame on
your hatred. Shame on your ignorance. Shame on your choice to
remain ignorant. Shame on your complicity, and the blood on your
hands, Ken" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Male dogs?
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:35:22
EID:a8a5 2266ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec81a
* On 01-03-97 at 01:32, KEN YOUNG wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Male dogs?" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> RS> You've never seen a male dog hump another male dog? You've
KY> RS> never seen a male dog hump your leg? Where have you been?
KY> FR> Well? Answer the question, Ken. We're waiting.
KY> It isn't that they are gay, but that they may go after anything at all.
And how do you know this? Did you talk to the dogs?
Rod "...note, this was the STUPID question you asked of me when I
affirmed that animals displayed traits of sexual orientations." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:37:24
EID:0b5c 2266aca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec894
* On 01-03-97 at 17:35, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY>> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better.
MG> KY>> They were still around, but who needs to advertise
MG> KY>> their sexual orientation?
MG> RC>> So you've never kissed a girl (or boy, whichever you prefer)
MG> RC>> in public, since that would be advertising your sexuality?
MG> KY> I see I have been misunderstood. I do not mean there is anything
MG> KY> wrong with public affection for each other. Even with gays,
MG> KY> though it may make me uncomfortable, that should be allowed, and
MG> You are a fool, Jelly. Isn't one man holding hands with
MG> another advertisint their sexual preference?
MG> Don't say stupid things in this echo, Jelly. You will live
MG> to regret them. Indeed, you already have.
Shame him for his complicity in spreading the myths that lead to
gay bashings, Martin.
Realisation of what he causes, and how it manifests itself, is
required to see how he hates the sin *and* hates the sinner.
Rod "...his ignorance needs to be exploded" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:41:26
EID:6479 2266ad20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec986
* On 02-03-97 at 10:03, JOE SEATTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> Quoting Ken Young to David Worrell
JS> KY> little uncomfortable with it, but gays should be allowed to show
JS> KY> affection just as heterosexual should. But, many gays do cause
scenes
JS> KY> about their lifestyle, and often make a point of people knowing
they
JS> KY> are gay, without any reason.
JS> DW> So do many heterosexuals, Ken. Your point?
JS> KY> FUnny, I must have missed the news stories of the "Straight Rights"
JS> KY> rallies..
JS> what would you call gay-bashing, jelly?
He doesn't like dealing with the radical consequences of
repeating the propaganda that he does.
In a typical Christian fashion, he takes no responsibility for
the lies he spreads when someone enacts upon them. He blames the
person who acted upon the collective lies of the liars of the
Christian right. He then distances himself from the gay bashers.
I want to know how many people that Ken has told that gay people
are "sick" or "abnormal" or "unable to be saved" or "unworthy" or
"sinners" or ...
...and how many of those people have repeated those lies, and
how many of those lies have reached gay bashers, and how many gay
bashers have decided to *make* justice out of these lies.
Rod "...yes, Ken wants to distance himself from the consequences
of his lies. Never let him" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Velcronomicon: A magick book that sticks with you
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:42:28
EID:e85d 2266ad40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ec9c4
* On 02-03-97 at 00:37, KEN YOUNG wrote to DON MARTIN,
on the topic of "Murderous Christians" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically try
to
KY> KY> advance a pro gay agenda.
KY> DM> But THAT, dimbulb, is _not_ a sexual activity: it is a political
KY> DM> one.
KY> True, but it is a political activity promoting a sexual one.
No it's not. Political rallies promoting equal rights for gay
people is not promoting homosexual genital acts. It's promoting
legislative or civil activism.
You are a moron.
Rod "...can you please identify the supposed target audience of a
gay equal rights rally, and how they converted from
heterosexuality to homosexuality, and under what scientific proof
this is established. Thank you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * REALITY.SYS corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q)
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:45:30
EID:d0ff 2266ada0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331eca7a
* On 02-03-97 at 11:06, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY> affection just as heterosexual should. But, many gays do cause scenes
KS> KY> about their lifestyle, and often make a point of people knowing
they
KS> KY> are gay, without any reason.
KS> KY> DW> So do many heterosexuals, Ken. Your point?
KS> KY>FUnny, I must have missed the news stories of the
KS> KY>"Straight Rights" rallies..
KS> There are plenty of them. Dedicated to *denying* the rights they
KS> already have to others.
I can even list one. Remember in last year's Republican
primaries, there was a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, for the
PROTECTION of marriage? It was a STRAIGHTS rights rally -- the
preservation of special rights for straights.
In New Mexico on February 14 this year, gay people protested by
being married on the steps of the state Roundhouse. On February
16, heterosexual special rights campaigners protested and had a
heterosexual marriage re-commitment on the steps, protesting
the conservation of their SPECIAL STATUS under the law.
These are just TWO examples of specific HETEROSEXUAL SPECIAL
RIGHTS rallies.
Ken is debunked.
Rod "...again..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Rowan Atkinson
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:52:32
EID:3e3e 2266ae80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ecc20
* On 02-03-97 at 17:15, DAVID WORRELL wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Rowan Atkinson" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> "And finally, Christians. Are the Christians here? Sorry,
DW> but it turns out the Jews *were* right. Tough luck, that.
This was the line I pulled for someone else :) :)
Rod "...hehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Rowan Atkinson
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:52:34
EID:7cc2 2266ae80
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ecc22
This message was from DAVID WORRELL to ALL,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
Kevin McKenzie sent me this. I thought some of you might enjoy it.
--cut--
Oh, I was watching Comedy Central last week, and they had a
great Rowan Atkinson sketch act, one of which was him as
the Devil, dealing with the damned right after Judgement
Day. It went as follows:
"OK, all you adulterers, please step forward. My, there
sure are alot of you, aren't there? Well, form to lines,
male and female. You males, line up over there by the
little guillotine.
"The French? Are the French here? Good, good. Step over
there by the Germans. I'm sure you have a lot to talk
about.
"Atheists? Atheists, please step forward. I bet you all
feel like a right bunch of ninnies, don't you?
"And finally, Christians. Are the Christians here? Sorry,
but it turns out the Jews *were* right. Tough luck, that.
"Well, enjoy your stay here. Now Adolf, you take over . . . "
___
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fane
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 21:53:36
EID:d497 2266aea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ecc60
* On 03-03-97 at 15:35, FANE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel Boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FA> Um, what was the original message about a Cracker Barrel
FA> Boycott? I missed it and am interested in if this is for
FA> real or just another enigmatic subject line. :) Thanks.
The original message was about Cracker Barrel's policy of
actively seeking and firing homosexuals from all their stores.
It is an active policy of the company.
Rod "...and there has been much concern in Kentucky about it" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * He's your God, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: A bumber sticker
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:00:38
EID:1e0f 2266b000
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ece06
* On 01-03-97 at 10:43, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "A bumber sticker" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> The day before yesterday I saw a bumber sticker
FR> which read, "Don't have sex with 'Pro-Lifers'"
Yes, there is a great catalog called the Northern Sun catalog
that has all sorts of liberal-leaning cause bumper stickers :)
They have a t-shirt which reads something like: "Careful,
Margaret, he might be pro-life!!!!" :) :)
They're on the net, I think. Chris will have to check for the
URL from their latest catalog.
Rod "...it's really funny. Chris can give you their postal
address should you wish to sign up for some of these better
mail order catalogs" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * At least I never misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt - Q
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:14:40
EID:7e64 2266b1c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed150
* On 02-03-97 at 11:06, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "The Flock" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY>Not like this was the first time. A year ago, they did
KS> KY>the very same thing.
KS> KY>And no, currently I am church hunting..
KS> Oh? I didn't know the season had opened...
Suggest the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community
Churches. Let him see his victims :)
Rod "...it's justice. God would have wanted it that way :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:16:42
EID:74fa 2266b200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed1ca
* On 01-03-97 at 11:43, KEN YOUNG wrote to SUE ARMSTRONG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> SA> Ah, at the time, the entire Christian Church WAS for it; it was
that
KY> SA> which called for the witch-hunts in the first place.
KY> Nope.. The church was pretty much split on it.
KY> Unfortunately, many people likely were afraid to speak up.
They say that those who ignore history are destined to repeat it.
Why are you afraid to speak up about the atrocities being
performed by the church against gays?
Rod "...please answer honestly" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:21:44
EID:5ed0 2266b2a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed2f8
* On 02-03-97 at 13:11, KEN YOUNG wrote to DAVE HAMILTON,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples 1/" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> KY> If that is what the people want, fine.. As long as it is more
on the
KY> KY> local or state level, and not federal..
KY> DH> . Just so long as you don't have to accept it, right? So
it's
KY> DH> OK for a woman in one state to have choices but not in the next
state?
KY> DH> What, then, is the point of remaining a country? Dollars?
KY> Beats me, I have always been more for state rights, myself.
KY> Hey, if you don't like how an area is doing things, just
KY> leave. Sounds like a good idea to me.
No. Sounds like a bad idea.
The reason the US has such things as the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT
clause of the constitution is so that one state's decisions FULLY
affect another's.
Can you imagine if a divorced woman had been granted custody,
with her ex-husband having access to her children unsupervised
for one day per week -- and that this order had been issued in
Washington.
If the man crossed into Oregon, she'd have to apply for custody
of the children (as Washington's would no longer apply in
Oregon's jurisdiction)...
This could happen 48 more times.
This is why the public acts and judicial records of one state are
valid in another.
Can you imagine moving to a new state for a job, and suddenly
realise that you're no longer married on entering the state?
Rod "...in ALL federations (and the US is a federation of states)
there is ALWAYS co-recognition of state decisions across the
whole federation" Swift.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Chlorinating Christians
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:22:46
EID:f4f1 2266b2c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed336
* On 02-03-97 at 13:27, KEN YOUNG wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Chlorinating Christians" in echo Holysmoke:
KY> Jd> We don't go to church, but christianity is like a disease that wants
to
KY> Jd> spread. It wants to elbow its way into our schools, hospitals, places
of
KY> Jd> employment. So, like treating our drinking water against cholera,
we
KY> Jd> must keep the Chrisitan mind infection at bay.
KY> Hmm.. Interesting.. Didn't Hitler say similar things,
KY> referrring to what he saw as "undesirables" as an illness
KY> society had to be cured of?
Ironic. You just described the mindless propaganda about gays
that you spread.
Rod "...isn't it time you left now?" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * 1-900-666-0666: Live beasts, one-on-one-pacts, call now!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:26:48
EID:0b5c 2266b340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed428
* On 02-03-97 at 12:46, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY> FUnny, I must have missed the news stories of the "Straight
MG> KY> Rights" rallies..
MG> Straights have rights. There is no need for straights rights rallies.
As I detailed in another message, however, there are straights
rights rallies, specifically right-wingers wanting to protect
their special rights for heterosexual marriage.
Rod "...but that's typical for Ken, to make such a silly
statement, and not expect a reply :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:29:50
EID:befb 2266b3a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed4de
* On 02-03-97 at 12:59, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> RS>> Oh, my mistake. It's obvious the Oklahoma City Bombing, uh,
MG> RS>> err, Earthquake was caused by people who proclaim
MG> RS>> fundamental faith in Jesu..
MG> JS> Evidence???
MG> When the trial starts, the evidence will be heard. After
MG> the tria ends, ask for evidence again.
He's conveniently snipped the argument prior to this line of mine
above, Martin, in which I clearly stated what Christian Domestic
Terrorism was, and he claimed that such acts -- like Oklahoma, like
Brookline, like Pensacola, like Atlanta -- were not acts by
Christians, in their faith, to cause terror against US citizens
and residents, domestically.
Since he denies Oklahoma was domestic christian terrorism, well,
I had to come up with something non-Christian and non-terroristic
to explain it :) :)
Rod "...the earthquake was the best I could do. :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:33:52
EID:b339 2266b420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed5d0
* On 02-03-97 at 13:30, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "In the news" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> JH> You have TBN on cable? We get it local around here. Of course,
this
SQ> JH> is the "Bible Belt".
SQ> Hell, here in Texas, I can get all kinds of religious channels just
by
SQ> turning the antenna "just so." With our local cable
SQ> provider, shit, we must have had seven or eight "Jesus
SQ> Channels," some of which were airing the same clowns and
SQ> the same beg-a-thons time and time again. See, Fundies
SQ> threaten legislation to get rid of "offensive material" in
SQ> their homes. I simply got rid of the cable provider in
SQ> favour of a satellite dish. :)
KMPX-29 really sucks. In Dick-hater. :) You do know you can
call your cable provider and ask them to DROP the religious
channels, dontcha? :)
There is currently a concerted effort to get cable providers to
drop the Family channel.
Rod "...now that's a noble cause" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: The end of the world is
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:34:54
EID:edf8 2266b440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed60e
* On 28-02-97 at 16:23, SUE ARMSTRONG wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "The end of the world is n" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> I got a job! A real job!
Congratulations.
Rod "...thanks to my blacklisting, I'm still unemployed" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Tom Huber
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 06 Mar 97 22:38:56
EID:331e 2266b4c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ed700
* On 01-03-97 at 12:07, TOM HUBER wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "Mormongate" in echo Holysmoke:
TH> Write him a letter, telling him your experiences. Who knows? It might
TH> shake things up enough to get some action (if it hasn't been taken care
TH> of already).
I'd write them a short and sharp letter telling them in no
uncertain terms to NEVER have any of them, nor their agents, nor
church representatives, trespass on the premises, nor come within
100 metres of any member of my family, nor to communicate by
telephone or letter ever again.
I would NOT give the Mormon cult an explanation of my
"experiences". Knowing most culties, they'd attempt to use this
as a "latch on"...
That is, a return letter from the cult wanting to *help you*, and
hence keep annoying oneself.
Rod "...that's what I'd do" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: What religion causes...
|Date: 06 Mar 97 23:17:58
EID:2d4c 2266ba20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ee026
Side note: The Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe has been infiltrated
and influenced by right-wing conservative missionary Christians,
hence the reflections in policy of hard-right-wing conservative
Christian policies. Beware, this is WHAT the right wants in the
US eventually...
REUTERS, March 5, 1997
Castrate gays, Zimbabwe campaigner says
By Cris Chinaka
HARARE, Zimbabwe - A former Zimbabwean nationalist leader has launched a
campaign to persuade anti-gay President Robert Mugabe's government to punish
homosexuality with castration and public whipping.
The crusade, calling for public lynching and castration of convicted
rapists and gays, began a week after police said they were investigating
charges of homosexual rape against former President Canaan Banana.
``These crimes are on the increase and Zimbabwean laws against sexual
perverts, especially rapists and gays, are too soft,'' Michael Mawema, a
former nationalist politician, told the first meeting of his campaign Tuesday
night.
Mawema also said the law must punish the kind of witch doctor who is
alleged to prescribe rape, incest or child abuse to cure some sexual
diseases, including AIDS, or to secure businesss success.
About 100 people turned up to hear him say both Christianity and
Zimbabwe's traditional African culture were unequivocally against ``these
perverts.''
``I am proposing that those convicted of these sexual crimes, such as
homosexuality, rape, incest and bestiality, be whipped at least 100 times
in
a public square, and that, if they are men, they be castrated,'' he said.
Zimbabwe outlaws sodomy, the charge used to convict homosexuals. Mugabe
has led public attacks on gays, saying they are worse than dogs and pigs,
but
has remained silent over allegations that his predecessor Banana forced
a
male bodyguard to have sex with him repeatedly.
Banana, 61, a married Methodist church minister who was president until
1987, has not commented on the charges against him, which a court judge
ruled
were ``probably true'' and intelligence officials hinted were plausible.
Mawema said the current maximum penalty of seven years for sex crimes was
too lenient.
Mike Auret, director of one of Zimbabwe's leading human rights watchdogs,
the Catholic Commission for Justice and Peace, said Mawema was wrong to
advocate the use of the old biblical law that regards homosexuality as a
sin
worthy of death.
``We must do something to curb rape, child abuse and bestiality, but gay
is a different class,'' he said.
* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: More AP scaremongerin 1/
|Date: 06 Mar 97 23:28:00
EID:2651 2266bb80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ee280
More information being peddled by AP to try and keep alive the story.
Just when are they going to drop rehashing this story. They've added
nothing new to it. As a journalist, the essence of something being
newsworthy is that it is new.
*sigh*... anyway, forwarded for your reading unpleasure :(
___--------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press 03-MAR-97
Atheist groups, others await word on O'Hair
AUSTIN - They pulled moving trucks up to the O'Hair house a couple
of weeks ago and emptied it.
They took the furniture and the appliances and all the belongings
of Madalyn Murray O'Hair - America's foremost atheist - and loaded
van after van. Then they put a red-white-and-blue sticker on the
house, declaring it government property, and drove away.
Sometime soon, the Internal Revenue Service intends to auction it
all off, to satisfy a lien for personal taxes unpaid in 1980, 1986,
1987 and 1988.
Of course, Ms. O'Hair could stop them by stepping forward to appeal
the seizure. Or by paying off the debt.
But don't count on it.
It has been more than 17 months since she disappeared with her son,
Jon Garth Murray, adopted daughter Robin Murray, and tons of money.
They have left a trail of tantalizing clues that so far have led
absolutely nowhere.
Are they alive? Are they on the lam, with more than $600,000 in
funds that are missing from organizations led by Ms. O'Hair? Or has
something more sinister happened to America's first family of
godlessness?
Somehow, it seems fitting that the person at the center of this
mystery is one of the most outrageous Americans of the half-century -
a woman who tried to remove the phrase "In God We Trust" from U.S.
currency, and to stop potential jurors from saying "so help me God."
Ms. O'Hair, 77, first gained fame when she took credit for a suit,
already filed, which ultimately removed the Bible and
sponsored-prayer from public schools.
She moved into and out of the spotlight in the decades since,
challenging God in the courts and on television while creating her
own empire and many enemies - atheists and Christians alike.
One day in August 1995, when employees arrived for work at the
bunker-style brick building in Austin that houses American Atheists
Inc., they found a note from Ms. O'Hair posted on the door: Their
jobs were on hold. They had been laid off.
Few who were close to the family were concerned. They said Ms. O'Hair
and her family had just returned from a trip to Virginia, where they
had visited old friends and viewed Civil War sites.
Atheist leaders said the family was in contact by cellular phone;
they talked about a plan to picket the pope in New York. Staffers
were told that the family was handling business in San Antonio and
would return within weeks.
Meanwhile, there was speculation. Did Ms. O'Hair, who has suffered
from diabetes and dizzy spells, go somewhere to die privately so
Christians could not pray over her at the end?
Then, at 4:35 p.m. on Sept. 28, all contact with the organizations
ceased.
To my knowledge nobody has talked to them since then," said Spike
Tyson, who now occupies Ms. O'Hair's office at American Atheists. He
had lived in the family's Austin home until it was taken by the IRS.
Since then, there have been a series of intriguing disclosures. Among
them:
* Jon Murray, 42, had sold his 1988 Mercedes on Sept. 4 through
an ad in the San Antonio newspaper. The transaction was
clandestine, done through a cellular phone and handled by a man
who identified himself as Mr. Murray, but did not resemble him.
* Robin Murray's Porsche 944 was found parked in a lot at Austin's
Robert Mueller Municipal Airport.
* Atheists found that the family's three dogs had been left
unclaimed at a kennel. The family's breakfast dishes were still
on the table of their home.
* Mr. Tyson moved in to housesit and dogsit - until the two young
dogs that belonged to Jon Murray and 31-year-old Robin Murray
"just disappeared" from the yard one day, he said. Ms. O'Hair's
17-year-old poodle, Gallagher, was left behind.
* The Houston Chronicle reported that as much as $1,000 a month
has been charged to Robin Murray's American Express card since
August, and the monthly balances have been paid. Vanity Fair
reported that the three were sighted in Auckland, New Zealand.
Activist Ellen Johnson took over the presidency of American Atheists
from her New Jersey home. Until late last year, she maintained that
there was no evidence of foul play and no money was missing.
But money is missing - a great deal of it. Two of the five nonprofit
atheist organizations headed by Ms. O'Hair and her family - American
Atheists and United Secularists of America - have told the IRS that
they are missing $627,500 from a New Zealand trust account. Along
with at least another $25,000, the cash disappeared about the same
time as the trio.
"These reports are true," Ms. Johnson wrote in the American Atheists
newsletter. "It was my decision to wait before making all discovered
information public, in the hope that we would find the O'Hairs first
- whether dead or alive."
There is no shortage of people who are looking for the family. The
atheists are among them, although Ms. Johnson says her group would
not press charges against the three.
"We'll never do something like that. There isn't the slightest
thought in my mind that they've done something criminal. I cannot
emphasize that enough," she said.
The IRS wants them. Police also want to know whether foul play was
involved, although little progress has been made, according to Austin
police Detective Stephen Baker.
And then there is the odd situation of William Murray - son of
Madalyn, birth father of Robin, and atheist apostate.
The child involved in his mother's school prayer lawsuit, William
later found God and became a minister. In so doing, he lost his
mother. He has been estranged from his family for 20 years.
Nonetheless, William Murray has been frustrated by the lack of
progress in the search for his mother. He has sought the help of
Texas Gov. George Bush. He has tried to generate interest in the case.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: More AP scaremongerin 2/
|Date: 06 Mar 97 23:28:02
EID:d651 2266bb80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 331ee282
>>> Continued from previous message
"It became really apparent to me in the last six months that nobody
is really interested in finding these people, except maybe the
media," he said.
William Murray thinks his mother is dead: "Standing between my mother
and a camera was a danger place. Just the fact that she hasn't
appeared in the middle of all this is cause to believe she is dead."
But others are not so sure.
"You find the dogs, you'll find the O'Hairs," says a neighbor of
Ms. O'Hair's. "They loved those animals. They never would have
left them."
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: 8 The List
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:07:00
EID:8b37 226658e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 331F94CE
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 03-02-97 (11:13)
From: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
To: ALL
Subj: 8 The List
-
KW>This list will be posted monthly, until enough people tell me to stop.
KW>If you aren't listed, and want to be, just give me the information,
KW>and I will add you to the list.
KW>This list may also be found on my web page--
KW>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3158/cast.html
One to eight.1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Made it to Brantford,Ont.
* SLMR 2.1a * "This is Abuse. Arguments are down the hall."
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:52:00
EID:0392 22665e80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 331F94CF
DW> In short, as long as it doesn't exceed 'bout 250K, and you split it
up
DW> into 60K chunks or so, it'll be fine.
Gee, , when you get to grade 5, you will be able to get a
300K program.
By the way, it's the blunt end of the spear that leaves your hand
last. . . if your tossing it correctly.
[ 2'nd time]
* SLMR 2.1a * * A small object that is accidentally dropped will hide
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 08 Mar 97 05:49:29
EID:1280 22682e20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 1ba22075
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331ef1bc
On (06 Mar 97) Ken Wiens babbled to Marilyn Burge...
KW> MB>On (03 Mar 97) Judith Bandsma babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> Fundies may subconsciously make the choice to be braindead.
KW> 'Fundy' as defined and used in this Conference seems to
KW> include anyone who believes in God. That includes a very wide
KW> spectrum of beliefs indeed. So, the 'cream of the crop' of
KW> fundies turning up here is highly unlikely. For that would
KW> include some very highly educated people from a wide variety
KW> of disciplines.
That may be other people's definition of "fundy," but it isn't
mine. My definition involves a willing and obvious tendency to
ignore the obvious in order to justify a point of view that would
otherwise be reprehensible to even the most callous individual,
such as a belief that being born with a yen for one own's gender
is an automatic ticket to Hell.
KW> Now if you mean 'fundy' in the sense of one who subscribes to
KW> inerrancy of the Bible, Jesus as the Only Way, etc. That is
KW> another story and automatically narrows the list.
I work with a fellow how has a Ph.D. in Economics. He also
believes The Flood literally happened, that people literally used
to live to be 900 years old, that Jesus literally physically rose
into the sky, etc.
I do not retract one word of my original statement regarding
fundies and braindeath. It is strictly a voluntary mindset, so far
as I can see. If ever anybody was formally trained to regard
events on the basis of empirical evidence, economists were, yet,
he has no trouble believing what he believes and can rationalize
every part of that belief, as he has done for me.
Yes, braindeath is an integral part of fundyism. Live with it.
... There are no Christian Moderators here that are going to save you.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Joe Seatter
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 08 Mar 97 07:08:06
EID:c1b2 22683900
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 d4d5c9b1
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 331708af
On (28 Feb 97) Joe Seatter babbled to Martin Goldberg...
JS> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Rod Swift
RS> The premise is wrong, and hence the conclusion is also wrong.
MG> Homosexuality, while not normal (since it is not the sexual
MG> preference of most) is natural. Therefore, anyone that hates
MG> for homosexual preference is
MG> 1. Not a christian
MG> 2. A moron
JS> i disagree with it not being normal... most people arn't
JS> jewish, but that dosn't mean jewish people arn't normal...
JS> same thing, just because most people are heterosexual, dosn't
JS> mean gays are abnormal...
I think Martin has his terminology wrong. He is confusing
"average" or "usual" with normal. While being female and
6 feet tall is not usual or average, it is completely
normal (doesn't derive from some sort of pathology).
We went through this discussion at work years ago. The
analysts were using the word "normal" when referring to
weather conditions that fell outside the usual. As I
pointed out to them, given the atmospheric conditions
extant at the time of the "excess" rainfall or whatever,
the amount of rainfall was completely normal; but they
weren't usual or average.
The same thing applies to homosexuality; given the extant
conditions of the mother during pregnancy, etc., it is
perfectly normal for a homosexual to be homosexual; it just
isn't average or usual.
... "Daddy, what does "formatting non-removable drive c:/99% complete" mean?"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You Lose
|Date: 08 Mar 97 07:38:45
EID:f898 22683cc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 0730d639
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 c0881dcb
On (27 Feb 97) Jim Staal babbled to Marilyb Burge...
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Jim Staal <=-
MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
JS> Nope.
MB> Gimme numbers. I want REAL numbers from the Department of
MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a year
JS> involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
JS> Practitioners
JS> I guess that should do it.
Now find the Department of Health statistics that corroborate
there are even that many third-trimester abortions in the U.S.,
and maybe we can confirm that Fitzsimmons wasn't sucked into
the fundy camp.
... "Sheesh! Try to do something nice, and you get flamed!" -- Joan of Arc
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 05 Mar 97 19:13:58
EID:b7c0 226599a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 6e069077
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 3312f1d9
David Worrell s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Steve Quarrella, ĖHs:
SQ> Heard about the "Army of God" taking responsibility for the bombing
SQ> of an abortion clinic and a gay bar.
SQ> Someone, hunt these motherfuckers down and try them for "war crimes."
DW> Fuck a trial. Just take 'em out in an open field, strap one of their
DW> bombs to them, and set the fucker off. My tax dollars can be put to
DW> better use - there's no need for a trial for terrorists. Only humans
DW> have the right to a trial by their peers.
Some good small-arms manufacturer - say, Sturm Ruger, for example,
should put flyers in all the abortion clinics offering free basic
safety and combat courses with handgun purchases. And a free box of
big fat jacketed hollowpoints. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 05 Mar 97 19:25:26
EID:7dbf 22659b20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2b1bb232
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89691653
Laurie Appleton s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Damien Wellman, ĖHs:
LA> Surely you know that most of the world's highest mountains
LA> have MARINE fossils at or near their peaks. What does that
LA> tell you about how 'high' they must have been in the past?
Don't you ever feel even slightly embarrassed? You must surely
be aware that everyone with an IQ over forty knows that mountains
are evidence of, not against, plate tectonics, etc.
Do they have the short school buses in Australia? The clientele
certainly exists.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: TDHW
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:27:10
EID:5336 2266a360
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 6dff542c
Yo:
I'm immensely enjoying "The Demon-Haunted World."
Sagan pokes great fun at the suggestibility of humans in general,
and I shan't be surprised if, somewhere along the way, he takes
a slice out of folks who are somehow tricked into thinking this
book is a work of fiction.
I guess it was the bible I was thinking of.
edweird
... PREROGATIVE: a sovereign's right to do wrong. (Bierce)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:50:31
EID:ff3e 2266a640
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f064ecb6
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about Damned Shoes:
RS> Hmmm . . . Incubus, the Official Footware of the Harpy
RS> League . . .
DC> Perhaps it should be the Succubus instead?
No, though I agree that if they're going to bring out
Incubus, they should bring out a man's shoe called Succubus
as well. Incubus (Incubare: to lie atop) was the male demon
that seduced women in their sleep, a succubus (succubare: to
lie beneith) was the female equivalent.
Well, hell. I thought one was an Italian word for "squirt the
contents of my fountain pen all over your pusher-diesel Flxible"
and the other, "perform fellatio on the tailpipe of your
short-coach Bluebird."
edweird
... EGOTIST: a person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:23:44
EID:4f0c 22675ae0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ad1be469
Roger Hunter s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Ed Mills, ĖHs:
EM> Pack it with Federal or Cor-Bon .357 JHP's; they'll knock a fag-basher
EM> backwards several feet while depositing his innards all over the
EM> sidewalk behind him.
RH> Which reminds me of a debate I had on whether a bullet will really
RH> knock someone backward. The consensus was that it would not except
RH> by muscular reflex, that sheer impact was not large enough.
RH> Do you know differently?
No, not really... I may have been the victim of Hollywood on such
matters. I've had two somewhat conflicting experiences related to
that:
The first example was when I had to put a sick hog down with a .357
cast hollowpoint. It didn't expand at all, caused no target movement.
But I think that was partly because my bro-in-law cast it from linotype
or something, and it was too hard.
The other, somewhat conflicting occurrence was an instance of
shooting at old TV sets, record players and cans of tomato paste.
.44 wadcutters made things jump like crazy - but the best was
what an '06 round did to a can of tomato paste. A big red fog for
a second, found the can quite a ways off, opened out flat from
the seam and almost completely clean.
But a .30-06 might not make a very practical defense piece, unless
you have a really big living room and make a practice of wearing
earplugs all the time.
The other thing I've heard about so called "stopping power" was
the story about why the .45 auto was developed. (If this is
BS, I invite correction, of course.) What I heard was that
officers who were in the Phillipines during WWI were getting
offed by crazy guerillas who would lunge at them with bayonets
or machetes or whatever. They'd be full of holes and still keep
coming, so the armorers decided to use John Browning's design,
which dispensed big, fat, slow, heavy bullets. These supposedly
had that mythical thing called "stopping power" which no one
really seems quite sure of.
RH> I've been considering a double barreled hand shotgun. It will
RH> hold either a .410 shotgun shell or a 45 caliber pistol shell.
RH> Seems like just the thing to repel boarders in my camper...
RH> This is a pistol, BTW, with about 5" barrels.
Never saw that. I've seen the derringer of that caliber, though.
Which is also available in .44 magnum, if you want some real
seriously masochistic recoil. The other thing I'm reminded of
is the Thunder Five, a .410/.45 revolver which looks like an
S&W .38 snub on steroids.
edweird
... You want "knockdown power"? Get a Buick!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 07 Mar 97 09:37:45
EID:8154 22674ca0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 423f365f
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3309efea
Don Martin s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Norman Solomon, ĖHs:
DM> ... and one memorable
DM> lamb o' th' flock wished to know the addresses of us WOAs
DM> (wicked old atheists) so that he might show up on our
DM> doorsteps to drive a pitchfork through our skulls (an image
DM> hearkening back to the agrarian craftsmanship of yore).
Who did that? I missed the fun.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Black lipstick 1/2
|Date: 07 Mar 97 09:45:59
EID:14b9 22674da0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1c16934f
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 33106709
Don Martin s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Lynda Bustilloz, ĖHs:
DM> Americans do not have the market on Cutesie-Poo cornered quite yet.
DM> Incidentally, speaking of the delights of bad taste, allow me to
DM> recommend the video _Stuart Saves His Family_ with Al Franken, the
DM> film that, according to its blurb, puts the fun back into
DM> dysfunctional. Anyone who has been around drunks, 12-Step programs,
DM> and various support groups will find it a hoot.
I'm attractive enough, and smart enough, and doggone it, I've
GOT to get a copy of that.
I wish they'd do one that involves "The Herlihy Boy" or "The
motivational Speaker," too.
edweird
in a van down by the river
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Fundy Frolics
|Date: 07 Mar 97 09:52:29
EID:1cca 22674e80
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f1b973eb
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org 576ea8e8
Norman Solomon s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Judith Bandsma, ĖHs:
NS> OK Judith you got me what is an "emesis basin"?
Accessory intended for use with Ipecac, Billy Graham, etc.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 09:59:50
EID:42e6 22674f60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9c0bdc3e
REPLY: 1:3603/210 41e172cb
ROBERT CURRY s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” LAURIE APPLETON, ĖHs:
LA> There is certainly plenty of evidence that Mt. Everest has
LA> indeed risen in early historic times and that it was below
LA> sea level before that.
RC> Please share your "plenty of evidence" that Mt. Everest rose up
RC> from sea level in historical times (i.e., no more than just a
RC> few thousand years ago).
Needing a little peace & quiet, are you? :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Alternative of Straw.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:04:19
EID:2855 22675080
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7c3a719d
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 331ca723
Judith Bandsma s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” all, ĖHs:
-=> Laurie complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Martin <=-
LA> You are a lying son of a bitch.
LA> 33 carefully placed in 3 ZDDDDDD?
LA> 33 its very own, specially 3 Z? 3------3
LA> 33 prepared, luxuriantly 3 33 03 3
LA> 33 hand crafted porcelain 3 33 3 3
LA> 33 filing Cabinet where 3 33 3 3
LA> 33 it will receive the 3 _____________33 3 3
LA> 33 dignity and attention 3 (_______________) ADBDBDDY
LA> 33 it deserves. DDDDDD> 3 ( )DDDDY 3
LA> 33 Thank you. 3 ( )DDDDDDDY
JB> Looks like Laurie is now stealing other things than out of context
JB> quotes.
Yeah, but I was happy and flattered when people stole:
ÉĶĶĶ» ÉĶĶĶ» ĶĶĖĶĶ ÉĶĶĶĶ ŗ ÉĶ» ÉĶ» ÉĶĶĶĶ ÉĶĶĶ» ÉĶĶĶ» ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ĢĶĖĶ¼ ŗ ŗ ŗ ĢĶĶĶ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ĢĶĶĶ ĢĶĶĶ¹ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ČĶ» ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ČĶ¼ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ ŗ
ČĶĶĶ¼ ČĶĶĶĶ ČĶĶĶ¼ ŗ
And it would be just as flattering if they stole:
ÉĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶ»
ŗ ŚÄÄÄæ ŗ
ŗ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ŗ
ŗ ĆÄÄ´ ³ ³ ĆÄÄ´ ŚÄŁ ŗ
ŗ ³ ³ ĄÄÄŁ ³ ³ ŗ
ŗ ß ŗ
ČĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶ¼
Or (one that I stole and edited myself)
___ _____
.'/,-Y" "~-.
l.Y ^.
/\ _\_
i ___/" "\ ßŪßßßßÜ ÜßßßßÜ Ū Ū Ū
: /" "\ o ! Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū
l ] o !__./ Ū Ū Ū Ū ŪßßßßŪ Ū
\ _ _ \.___./ "~\ Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū Ū
X \/ \ ___./ ßßßßßß ßßßß ß ß ß
: \ ___. _..--~~" ~`-.
` Z,-- / ` ų
\__. ( / _____) ų
\ /-----~~" ) ų ų ų ų ų ų ų ų ų ų
Y \ /
= "x______.^
= \
j Y
Or:
ÉĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶ»
ŗ ŚÄÄÄÄÄÄæ ŚÄÄÄÄÄÄæ ŚÄÄÄÄÄÄæ ŚÄæ ŚÄæ ŚÄæ ŚÄÄæ ŗ
ŗ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ŗ
ŗ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ŗ
ŗ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ŚÄÄÄÄŁ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ³ ĄÄÄŁ ŗ
ŗ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ĄÄÄÄÄæ ³ ĄÄÄŁ ĄÄÄŁ ³ ŚÄÄæ ŗ
ŗ ĄÄÄÄÄÄÄŁ ĄÄÄÄÄÄÄŁ ĄÄÄÄÄÄÄŁ ĄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄŁ ĄÄÄŁ ŗ
ČĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶĶ¼
Or:
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Krakatoa
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:17:13
EID:231c 22675220
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 d55f9231
A couple months ago, I inquired about your purported
experience involving Harry Truman and Mt. St. Helens
and got no response. (Along with 47 other people, of
course.)
A little embarrassed, are ye?
I'd still love to hear it!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Utterly evil death cult
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:31:42
EID:cb48 226753e0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1ce01a58
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1e13566e
Fredric Rice s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Robert Burke, ĖHs:
FR> Children are _born_ atheists, you ignorant, superstitious
FR> savage. It takes an evil person to destroy a child's mind
FR> by making her believe there are gods and deadly ideologies
FR> like "sin."
It's a particularly insidious kind of evil, too; the victim often
becomes the future perpetrator if he/she lacks the cranial
wherewithal to effect immunity.
Sort of a weird social Darwinism.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 07 Mar 97 10:54:28
EID:595b 226756c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2e053f95
REPLY: 1:383/6293 3314F12E
Darryl Gonzalez s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Richard Smith, ĖHs:
RS> You mean, aside from foster and cause it, the way it says in
RS> the Bible? Oh, I forgot, you're ignoring those postings of
RS> scripture that I already made to this effect, aren't you?
DG> This is so laughable, it hardly deserves a response! Who are you to
DG> judge God, Richard?
You forget that you're dealing with people who have found out
that god is simply a fiction invented for malicious purposes by
those whose cranial endowments were inadequate for dealing with
reality on its own terms. Because there is no such thing as god,
judging such a fabrication is really no big deal, eh?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: 10 foot high and rising!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:00:20
EID:edc0 22675800
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 fe50341e
REPLY: 1:383/6293 3314F69E
Darryl Gonzalez s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” DAVID RICE, ĖHs:
DG> You know, I'm a little perplexed with most atheists/agnostics. You
DG> admit to the occurrance of a global ice age, but you deny that a
DG> global flood could possibly have occurred. Tell me, David, what does
DG> ice turn to when it's heated? Is it not WATER?
How does evidence of a global ice age translate to enough water
to cover all the highest peaks on earth?
Where did all that water go afterwards?
How did people survive the blistering, Venus-like surface
temperatures which would have been the result of the atmospheric
pressure from a vapor canopy large enough to cause the flood
described in the bible?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:26:26
EID:7919 22675b40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 4aaa2feb
Ken Wiens s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Jason Harmon, ĖHs:
KW> Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
KW> it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> eternity would not be part of it. The Bible says those who
KW> practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
KW> eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
KW> sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
KW> fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
The same bible that condemns people who wear mixed fibers? The
same one which makes the inference that white people are more
physically attractive than black people?
It is a pretty good barometer; just do mostly the opposite of
what it says and you'll be OK.
edweird
... 3.7 million times I took His name in vain, St. Peter? Jesus Chri...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:16:00
EID:ea46 22675a00
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 69c3a9c5
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f3bdc
Ken Wiens s¸D "Hi, ¸s€!" Ė” Robert Curry, ĖHs:
KW> 7But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved
KW> for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly
KW> men.
KW> 8But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that
KW> with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years
KW> as one day.
KW> 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
KW> but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for
KW> all to come to repentance.
KW> (NAS)
KW> Isn't it wonderful being a part of fulfilled prophecy?
Isn't it wonderful having a religion wherein you can enjoy
the upcoming demise and torment of nonbelievers?
Feel free to derive as much pleasure as you possibly can from
my eternal damnation. And don't step on the cracks or walk
under any ladders, while you're at it!
edweird
... "Are they taking DDT?" (Quayle question to Manhattan AIDS clinic staff)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: TDHW
|Date: 08 Mar 97 11:03:59
EID:58fa 22685860
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 ea1e546b
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 6dff542c
On (06 Mar 97) Ed Mills babbled to Marilyn Burge...
EM> Yo:
EM> I'm immensely enjoying "The Demon-Haunted World."
EM> Sagan pokes great fun at the suggestibility of humans in general,
EM> and I shan't be surprised if, somewhere along the way, he takes
EM> a slice out of folks who are somehow tricked into thinking this
EM> book is a work of fiction.
EM> I guess it was the bible I was thinking of.
I have a copy I haven't read yet. (GAWD! I wish "they" would
offer another financial incentive to retire so's I could catch
up on my reading!)
... And on the 8th day God said, "Ok, Murphy, you're in charge."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:57:00
EID:9806 22670f20
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 9fe321cf
DM> http://wp1.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/comics/wiley/past.h
DM> tm
JB> Wiley PAST? At the Post? Oh dear, dare I look?
DM> Only us old farts remember one-eyed pilots, Bandsma . . .
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
I don't have to answer, being one of those old farts, but I have
met several people I didn't like.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:07:00
EID:e572 226708e0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 8ad4c4f1
DM> Ah, a willing buyer meets the willing seller. That specimen of
DM> "dumbest" was but the tip of the haemorrhoid: Jelly has
DM> _miles_ to go in that line before he finally sleeps.
DH> Though he is far from dark and deep, if HolySmoke appears thus
DH> to him. I enjoy the cruise through the mail packets, much as
DH> lifting the window curtain to see what weather the day is
DH> likely to bring. A delightful experience.
DM> As Samuel Johnson might have said, "Sir, he who is tired of
DM> HolySmoke must be weary of the world!" Where else do others
DM> recognize and complete imbedded lines of poetry? Where else is
DM> an endless supply of voluntary loons available for
DM> entertainment? Where else can one get threatened by a
DM> pitchfork through one's skull? Every day, a fresh surprise.
That the threat is as empty as the head of the threatener can't
spoil the joy. My BBS has not been resetting its message read
pointers for the last four or five days and the number of dupes are
becoming overwhelming yet I slog on -- the flashes of light are
indeed a delight and I wouldn't want to miss a single one.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 07 Mar 97 08:37:00
EID:5625 226744a0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ e76fbbda
TH> Hm. I'm puzzled as to why your wishes haven't been honored (I
TH> know you don't know why), because the husband *is* the head of
TH> the house, even
DC> Your misogyny is noted.
TH> I don't know what else to offer to help.
DC> How about the understanding that they are individuals and
DC> require equal considersation?
You misjudge him. He doesn't _dislike_ women he simply needs at
least one person to whom he is superior by definition.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 07 Mar 97 08:41:00
EID:fc19 22674520
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 9fac8b75
KY> And no, currently I am church hunting..
MG> What's the legal limit?
DC> (looking into my crewel) Is there a size limit as well?
You carry churches in your embroidery? (Sorry. I couldn't resist.)
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Mar 97 08:54:00
EID:0588 226746c0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 80c08edb
FR> It's amazing how easy you people write in additional
FR> mythologies to maintain the self-deception.
DH> I remember hearing from a particular group of extreme fundies
DH> how during the crucifixion, Jesus' beard was ripped out. Try
DH> as I might, I could not find the reference for this.
DH> Finally, the "solution" was pointed out to me. In an obscure
DH> verse in Isaiah, there is a prophetic reference to this
DH> happening. The fundy conclusion was that since Jesus *was* the
DH> messiah, and sincd Isaiah *was* God's immutable prophet, it
DH> *must* have happened, no two ways about it.
DH> Boggles the thinking mind.
It sounds to me like the type of activity that forced the creation
the slogan "Get a life." How on earth do such people survive in the
world? Who makes their coffee? If not under rocks, where do they
live?
... ...it was the sign of an incontinent mind.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 666
|Date: 07 Mar 97 17:59:34
EID:b994 22678f60
MSGID: 3:711/933 332058ef
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3d2142f5
Dear ROBERT CURRY,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> Certainly. Jesus gave us the time in Matthew 24:32-34, Mark
AG>> 13:28-31; Luke 21:32-34 where He said the generation which sees
AG>> Israel restored to the Homeland will not die out through the
AG>> course of time before the Millennium comes in. Now the earthquake
AG>> occurs seven vears before the Millennium, and Armageddon
AG>> destroys all life on earth prior to the Millennium.
RC> So just what year, exactly, do you mean by that?
You should be able to calculate it within a close approximation. Israel
was restored to the Promised Land in 1948. Youngest of this generation
of witnesses would have been (the age of accountability), say, thirteen
at the time. It is now 1997 so they would be 62 years of age this year.
A lifespan is 70 years, a little more for some. And there remain yet 7
years (for Daniel's seventieth week) after the earthquake, and close of
the Gentile dispensation. It would appear therefore that these events
are rather short-term.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: all you commies
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:05:36
EID:d918 226790a0
MSGID: 3:711/933 33205bea
REPLY: 1:3603/210 3d2142f6
Dear ROBERT CURRY,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> Americans are Communist.
RC> All Americans?
No, not all Americans. But generally speaking, Americans are communists
and they know it not. I am not speaking of politiocs but of principles.
AG>> And the whole of the Western world is Communist.
RC> Perhaps you should identify what you mean by "Communist," then,
RC> as it does not appear to have any bearing on the real world.
Communism is a "spirit". In the Bible, the last Church Age is called:
"Laodicea" which means rights of the people, or communism. Globalism
or international is communism. That is its objective. America and many
Americans are pushing this line. Your White House and government, your
education system (through men such as Dewey and 'The Order' from Yale,
and the CFR, Rockefeller's interests and tax-free foundations have been
pushing these principles for years, to say nothing of Wall Street, and
the Democrats.
We should remember that Capitalism and Communism are but two dialectic
arguments along Hegelian principles designed to produce a predetermined
history - a One World Government, or NWO. They're both against the Free
Enterprise system we read about. And are both designed and controlled
by the elite group who designed and financed Naziism.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:19:38
EID:9ed0 22679260
MSGID: 3:711/933 33205d8c
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 2262934f
Dear Mark Kimes,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> Is there something strange or unusual in basing something of a
AG>> previous publication?
MK> On a pamphlet?
What is wrong with a pamphlet? This pamphlet happens to be 34 pages
and is itself an extract by the author from a book exceeding 500 pages.
MK> From a fundy?
You have no idea what a "Fundy" is. And those you consider "Fundies"
are far away from the fundamentals of God's Word.
MK> No, nothing strange or unusual about it, since we know you hate real
MK> books (bibles aside), which is why I said "small surprise." Pay
MK> attention.
I should have thought a 34-page pamphlet quite substantial. And that 500+
pages constitutes a "real book". Perhaps you should seek understanding as
your messages have not been any attempt to edify anyone and show you as
a
critic with no constructive purpose.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Kwisatz Haderach
|Sub: clones da sheep
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:26:40
EID:1fd6 22679340
MSGID: 3:711/933 33205f36
REPLY: 1:147/69.0 331a82e8
Dear Kwisatz Haderach,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KH> Religion encysts past mythologies, guesses, hidden assumptions
KH> of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal
KH> power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an
KH> unspoken commandment: Thou shall not question!
KH> -Bene Gesserit Axon
Amen! Religion .... ALL religion, is of the Devil. God is in His Word.
Religion is reasoning against His Word.
KH> Xtianists often feel the need to interfer with science (see the
KH> histories of early astronomers such as Galileo), especially when they
KH> perceive science to be threatening their world view.
You've chosen a poor example with which to support your claim. Galileo
was withstood by Roman Catholic religion. It has never been Christian.
KH> Evolution has taken man about as far as he can go (at least
KH> presently), it is now up to man to take matters in his own hands to
KH> improve on the species. It is only a matter of time before Xtianists
KH> see this as "playing gawd" and start whining about it.
I don't think you have done your homework very well. Firstly, I should
imagine you have never met a Christian in your entire life. Secondly,
you are a little remote from the argument for evolution because it can
not work - God or no God - for it is contrary to the laws of physics.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: clones
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:32:32
EID:1313 22679400
MSGID: 3:711/933 33206106
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8991053d
Dear Laurie Appleton,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hello. Long time no hear. I believe you are on the Net. Why not
visit our Web Site some time. It is quite substantial an still
building. There should be something there to interest you.
AG>> I have no idea what impact this will have on "fundies" but it
AG>> will have no impact on Christians. I fail to see how a cloned
AG>> sheep can have anything to do with Christianity.
LA> Well said.
Thank you!
LA> "Evidence from the fossil record now points overwhelmingly
LA> away from the classical Darwinism which most Americans
LA> learned in High School; that new species evolve out of
LA> existing ones by the gradual accumulation of small changes,
LA> each of which helps the organism survive and compete in the
LA> environment." (Newsweek, 3/11/80, p. 54)
Well reported.
Actually, it is a pity people don't take the trouble to investigate
the identity of the persons and groups who were behind introducing
all of this chaos in the classroom, such as Darwinian evolution. It
was and is unscientific.
'Science' had nothing to do with its introduction. The motive behind
its promotion was and remains political. This business is very well
documented, if only people cared enough for truth to search out the
motive and objective behind the scenes. And Who pulls the strings.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: clones
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:41:02
EID:0832 22679520
MSGID: 3:711/933 332061b2
Dear Lynda Bustilloz,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
LB> They can now successfully clone a mammal...humans are mammals. Will
a
LB> cloned human be regarded as having a soul?
That's an interesting question. I did not bother to read how the beast was
actually produced and until I know I cannot speculate. Nonetheless, it was
not a creation but a product of creation.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: 666
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:44:12
EID:e552 22679580
MSGID: 3:711/933 332062cd
Dear Lynda Bustilloz,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
LB> Is there eternal damnation for horses?
This would depend very much, I should think, if God is a "betting man"
and if "His" horse muffed the start or lost his gate, etc.,
LB> I'd forgotten just how warped you are.
Then look into the mirror and divide by infinity.
AG>> But I suspect you have chosen to be the way you are.
LB> Why?
"Mirror, mirror, on the wall ..."
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: 666
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:48:54
EID:26f1 22679600
MSGID: 3:711/933 3320646f
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 331c3b6e
Dear Doug Lee,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> If you are, as you seem so certain, "marked for the Lake of Fire",
AG>> then that is the result of your own free choice.
DL> So tell me how I chose to bear the Mark of Caine at the time of my
DL> birth.
I don't believe this is possible, do you? After al, at the time of your
birth you were probably not too well versed in the Word of God. Indeed
it's just conceivable you didn't even understand language at that point
in which case you would have been unable to make the choice.
AG>> And if you are physical or wilfully spiritual Serpent's seed, it's
AG>> not a matter of "should I follow Christ's teachings". You can't.
DL> Well aren't you the caring Christian.
Yes, of course I am. But you must remember that a horse could not follow
Christ's teachings either. Indeed no one but those in Adam's lineage can
receive and manifest the faith of Jesus Christ.
You should realize that Christ was the second Adam. He was not the second
Cain, or, for that matter, the second horse. Cain has no Kinsman Redeemer.
AG>> But I suspect you have chosen to be the way you are.
DL> I don't suspect. I'm certain *you* have.
Amen to that! And by the grace of God.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: 666
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:54:57
EID:af47 226796c0
MSGID: 3:711/933 332064cc
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1f938c66
Dear Fredric Rice,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Does your vocabulary reflect the character and proclivities of
your mother? Or is is your father, the Devil?
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:56:27
EID:a16b 22679700
MSGID: 3:711/933 3320656b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331d67ac
Dear Dan Ceppa,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here we go again, Dan Ceppa the anti-Semite, anti Hebrew bigot.
Instead of writing profanities and condemning good people ad truth
you would do well to repent and seek the Lord while you may.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-9809-3723! (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:04:56
EID:f9b3 22676080
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205785
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331e3a5b
Dan Ceppa said "Al Debunks Applesauc" to Don Martin,
adding:
JB> Wiley PAST? At the Post? Oh dear, dare I look?
DM> Only us old farts remember one-eyed pilots, Bandsma . . .
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
DC> Wasn't it Will Rogers?
You are obviously too old to qualify as a "youngster".
Later on, you say:
DC> His thesis was: "If it wasn't already very cold, why where
DC> the mammoths woolly?"
DM> Ah, many and varied are the chat topics in Sequim. Did
DM> he also find them "quite a wonder" (Clap hands and sing!)?
(I only mentioned Sequim there because of sinful
pride--I may be the only person in Baltimore who knows how
to pronounce it.)
DC> No, he was far too intelligent to be a fundy. As it was, he
DC> gave me some good advice with dealing with the local school
DC> board. However, I'm not sure if anyone has that much C-4
DC> and no one real knows how far it is to hell and back,
DC> though he felt that at least a one way ride would be good.
I wouldn't sweat the small stuff--aim them for Victoria
and let the RCMP do the tidying up.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:06:31
EID:9b51 226760c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205786
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331ef1bc
Ken Wiens said "Exemplifying examples" to Marilyn Burge,
adding:
KW> Marilyn Burge said, in a huffy tone of voice, to RIC CARTER <=-
MB> Fundies may subconsciously make the choice to be braindead.
JB> Uh, don't they do that consciously?
MB>If you're braindead, you aren't conscious. Or haven't you
MB>noticed that trait in the fundies we get here -- the cream
MB>of the crop, as it were.
KW> 'Fundy' as defined and used in this Conference seems to
KW> include anyone who believes in God. That includes a very
KW> wide spectrum of beliefs indeed. So, the 'cream of the crop'
KW> of fundies turning up here is highly unlikely. For that
KW> would include some very highly educated people from a wide
KW> variety of disciplines.
Not really--the cream of the crop of fundies, so far as
we are concerned, are the ones who are the most amusing by
virtue of their narrow views, certainty of being right,
overweening arrogance, and general stupidity.
Welcome back, Creamy Ken Weins! Hanged any raped
12-year-olds lately for aborting their daddy's fetus?
Later, you say to Jason Harmon,
KY>That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically
KY>try to advance a pro gay agenda.
JH>That's advertising a political philosophy. And what do you
JH>mean by "pro gay agenda"? Wanting to be treated like normal
JH>people? Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
JH>all eternity?
KW> Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
KW> it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> eternity would not be part of it.
Since civil society under our Constitution cannot
concern itself with the punishments by any particular deity
believed by that deity's afficionados to be applied at some
speculative time when the person in question has ceased to
be a citizen of that society, your comment is, as usual,
irrelevant, however much talking about it may contribute to
your masturbatory fantasies.
KW> The Bible says those who
KW> practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
KW> eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
KW> sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
KW> fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
Under whom it would appear that all assholes are created
equal.
Later still, you say to me:
DG>About bigotry being authorized by the Bible: Cite me a
DG>"Thou shalt a bigot" from the Bible.
DM>"Happy is he who dashes the brains of your little ones upon the
DM>stones" serves pretty well as an indication that Babylonians were
DM>not _quite_ on a par with the Chosen Race. While it does not
DM>explicitly enunciate a _rule_ of bigotry, it is, I think,
DM>sufficiently bigoted to satisfy most Nazis.
KW> The quote comes from Psalm 137:9. You can only come to the
KW> conclusion you do by leaving out critical details.
You are not completely satisfied with it, then?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:39:22
EID:9976 226764e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205787
REPLY: 1:207/212 d04a22d2
Karen Davis said "Dork" to Lynda Bustilloz,
adding:
LB> I was just the other night deploring how long it had been since a
LB> Holysmoke whacko had graced me with a new nickname.
KD> Sniff Sniff.... nobody has given me one. Have I been too quiet in
KD> here?
Too sane.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:42:18
EID:fdcc 22676540
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205788
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c0e16
Rod Swift said "Driving Mr. Daisy" to Ken Young,
adding:
KY> If you mean against homosexuality, most don't until
KY> homosexuality is shoved in their faces.
RS> I disagree. Most heterosexuals will display their open hatred
RS> and bigotry toward gay people without any gay people needing to
RS> be present. In fact, on most occasions, homophobia is brought up
RS> by conversing about gay people among exclusively heterosexual
RS> groups. The reason? Well, there aren't usually any protagonists
RS> to play devil's advocate.
It has been my experience that most of the greatest
homophobes I have seen have never knowingly _met_ a gay
person. They hate gays the same way Christers love god, by
dint of imagination working in a vacuum.
At least gays can be shown to exist.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: 10 foot high and rising!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:55:19
EID:56d0 226766e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205789
REPLY: 1:383/6293 3314F69E
Darryl Gonzalez said "10 foot high and rising!" to DAVID RICE,
adding:
DG> You know, I'm a little perplexed with most atheists/agnostics. You
DG> admit to the occurrance of a global ice age, but you deny that a global
DG> flood could possibly have occurred. Tell me, David, what does ice turn
DG> to when it's heated? Is it not WATER?
Could you please name one person here apart from
yourself (a known dispenser of disinformation) who has
mentioned a GLOBAL ice age? The last one didn't even cover
all of the present territory of the continental U.S.
Look up the term "hydrosphere" in a good encyclopedia of
science for as handle on the water involved.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: flood
|Date: 07 Mar 97 13:04:32
EID:dea2 22676880
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33205b09
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 331fa409
Bryson Hughes said "flood" to Don Martin,
adding:
BH> Mmm! Well if I was into stratum, I would be glad to assist you.
BH> Sounds like an interesting topic though. Maybe there is a geologist
BH> in the echo who could comment on the topic.
There is and he has. He seems to be off someplace making
money, though, at present.
BH> I just found them interesting and thought you might enjoy them as well
BH> as I have.
DM> Upon what evidence did you base this assessment of my tastes?
BH>
BH> You seemed interested in the account of the flood and was asking for
BH> evidence.
I am interested in the inevitable consequences of such a
flood as described. As I pointed out there, this event is an
instance of a "spiritual" god acting directly upon a
physical world, and would, therefore, offer some definitive
physical evidence of the existence of such a nonphysical
being.
DM> This has been debunked so often around here that I have lost
DM> count--if you want to piss somebody off, telephone the Turkish
DM> Embassy and enquire about all this.
BH> I would think an embassy would be the wrong place to call. The
BH> Department of Ministry and Tourism would seem to be where to call.
DM> Go ahead. Of course, the embassy is a much more local call than
DM> Instanbul.
BH> I just got Ron Wyatts address if you would like to inquire directly
to
BH> him or read his books. I have no opinion either way on his work in
BH> that field.
You like him, _you_ call him. I have so many local
halfwits to deal with here that I have no need of running up
long distance charges or of spending 32 cents to communicate
with a 2 cent mind.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: asaity
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:03:23
EID:dfe4 22677860
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 33207703
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 331fa407
Bryson Hughes said "asaity" to Dan Ceppa,
adding:
BH> It seems the best skill of many in this echo is
BH> taunting. Obviously with that level of maturity and
BH> mindset, I shouldn't waste too much of my time
BH> explaining anything.
We all love "prophets" who are capable of smug
superiority, yet still have the human concern to take up
some of their very valuable time to let the rest of us know
just how important they are. You are an inspiration to us
all: keep up the good work!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: all
|Sub: another one!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 16:44:58
EID:4585 22678580
Original from Keith Davis at 1:133/1070 in "DEBATE"
Forwarded Mar 07 97 by Alan Hess at 1:261/1000
Let me tell you something about GOD. God is what you want him to be. He
can be the life you breathe into your body,he could be the love you share.
God is compassion when you care about somebody(family,relationship, or
marriage).You may think that God is not alive.You may belive in the
big bang theory is far as the universe is concerned,but as yourself this,
how could one man Jesus Christ have the miracle healing powers in the
Bible if the Bible mentions the places of jerusalem,isreal,and so forth.
So if you do not believe in a higher power, and we are only flesh
and blood of this earth,please explain to me why we have found pieces
of Noah's Ark, the shroud of Jesus' execution and other items that is
mentioned in the Bible. if you would please respond to this inqiury
so that we could discuss this further and hear your expliantion.
thanks,
keith davis
-+- Maximus 3.01
+ Origin: Super Scott's BBS (706)884-1129 (1:133/1070)
--- Msged/2 4.10
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CHARLES CREAGER
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:57:08
EID:750c 2265bf20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310f6
TID: GE/2 1.2
KW> "God is an asshole"--MB
CC> I really feel sorry for the person or persons that speak
CC> of God in that manner. I feel sorry for them because they
CC> will have to answer to that God.
Why believe in in such a petty, vindictive asshole of a god, Charles?
CC> I am your friend, because I am concerned for your soul.
Empty words do not qualify a person as a friend. Your self-righteous
superstition about an asshole god seems a poor substitute for real
friendship, anyway. It takes more than a smarmy "Hi, I'm your *friend*"
to earn that description, Al. What kind of friend threatens people
with a hateful god? What kind of god tortures people and calls it love?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:57:09
EID:8ee5 2265bf20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310f7
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> there can't be a "year zero"
RH> Sure there can. At no point in your first year are you ANY
RH> year old. It is the zero year, which sounds odd,
It sounds odd because it is phrased oddly. The *year* is the first;
the *age* is zero. (Years are counted ordinally; age, cardinally).
RH> But 6 months old means "zero years, 6 months" old.
The difference is that there are two usages here, the ordinal usage
(first, second, third, etc.) to count the order of the years -- plus
the cardinal usage (zero, one, two, etc.) to tell how many years
someone has already lived. Sure, you understand it and I understand
it; most anyone does (although the terms "ordinal" and "cardinal" may
be unfamiliar to many). John, however, has problems.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:57:10
EID:03dd 2265bf20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310f8
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Shelby Sherman
with: Roger Hunter
JB> Granted. Now, does that mean that he is inside his "zeroeth" year,
JB> his "year zero," or inside his _first_ year, his "year one?"
RH> His first, (zero) year.
John, this is where it helps to distinguish between ordinal numbers
(first, second, third, etc.) and cardinal numbers (zero, one, two, etc.)
because the former is concerned with order, the latter with quantity.
When speaking of age, you can say that someone is in her seventh year
while simultaneously being six years (plus however many months, days,
hours, and minutes) old. Right?
Generally, a person in her nth year is already n-1 years old.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: SCOTT TAYLOR
|Sub: 666
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:57:11
EID:ca50 2265bf20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310f9
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Anthony Grigor-Scott
AG> Now the earthquake occurs seven vears before the Millennium,
AG> and Armageddon destroys all life on earth prior to the Millennium.
RC> So just what year, exactly, do you mean by that?
ST> That he's a brain dead fundy
Yes, that much is evident. I want to know for the record exactly WHEN
he imagines all these delightful things will come to pass.
ST> + Origin: < - Adelaide, Australia
It must be sad to think that idiots like this one and Appletoon are
representing Australia to the rest of the world. Even a stereotypical
Ugly American is positively _cute_ compared to them!
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:57:12
EID:2344 2265bf20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310fa
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> At least there are randomly selected payoffs, though. Wouldn't
RC> it be nice to get a chance at winning a big cash prize just
RC> for filling out your 1040 each year?
DH> I like that. Down the road from here, a Toronto suburb with a
DH> population of about 80,000 held a contest for city workers and
DH> interested citizens to put forth ideas. The plan was to increase
DH> services while maintaining taxes, thus yielding a positive cash
DH> flow. Some minimum goals were set, and above that the winners
DH> were to split the proceeds depending upon the amount of money
DH> the idea saved and the degree of participation of the contestants.
Interesting. What's the name of this municipal suburb?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: would you, could you?
|Date: 06 Mar 97 00:26:13
EID:edb4 22660340
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310fb
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Al Schroeder
with: Lynda Bustilloz
MH> But what she's saying is, if God can be credited for bringing
MH> her and George back together, shouldn't he also be blamed for
MH> bringing her and her ex together? Why credit God for the good
MH> if not blame him for the bad? Why assume he's manipulating
MH> things when good stuff happens, but somehow not paying attention
MH> when bad stuff happens?
FR> Did Mike ever get an answer?
Al was "playing god" in response to that particular set of questions.
Complete and utter silence.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 06 Mar 97 00:26:14
EID:7158 22660340
MSGID: 1:3603/210 436310fc
TID: GE/2 1.2
re: Zero
DH>> Wasn't he a Mexican cowboy with a fencing foil?
RC> Only eleven steps from ZERO, not a south-of-the-border HERO,
RC> following a path trampled by a HERD of words (it isn't HARD)
RC> lubricated by LARD placed before us by the Good and Salty LORD
RC> to lighten our LOAD, as explained to me by a magical TOAD who
RC> TOLD of the TOLL that all this TOIL takes on one trying to
RC> reach that fencing FOIL.
DH> Sorry, I only had three university math courses. Was that a 'yes'?
You are permitted to change one letter at a time, to change one word
into another via intermediate words. Shortest path from WORD1 to WORD2
is the winner. Care to give it a try?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 07 Mar 97 05:55:09
EID:64ce 22672ee0
MSGID: 1:207/212 3ab4e20e
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33163bd2
On (27 Feb 97) Ken Young wrote to Rod Swift...
KY> Also, if it was a mental disease, they wouldn't be able to help being
KY> gay, and they can..
They clearly cannot change themselves, Ken.
... Frances Gump......Somewhere Over the Chocolate
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 05:56:06
EID:a85f 22672f00
MSGID: 1:207/212 108af7f5
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33164002
On (27 Feb 97) Ken Young wrote to Jason Harmon...
KY> Well, drugs might be a lot safer if they were legal but regulated,
KY> would you be for that, as well?
You do realize that among this crowd [who tend to lean Libertarian]
you'll get the answer YES? Without hesitation?
... Forrest Gum: Life is like a box of Chiclets...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Re: Evidences =FOR= is?
|Date: 05 Mar 97 13:42:16
EID:1a91 22656d40
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 0c4b4a9e
TID: GE/32 1.2
DR> Just how does one "[listen] to Jesus" when he's a pile of
DR> dust these days? (Or are you hallucinating again?) What is
DR> Jesus' phone number, or better yet, internet e-mail
DR> address? What audio tapes has your Jesus produced so that
DR> we may "listen" to him?
This reminds me... Did your story, "Jesus Logs Into the Internet" ever get
printed in the Weekly Weird News?
... Scotland - where the men are men, and the sheep are twice as nervous.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: "IS NOT"
|Date: 07 Mar 97 03:27:43
EID:2c53 22671b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8b2f
-> On 04 Mar 97 09:27:09, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> "I was wrong."
JB> End thread now?
DC> Try taking the quotes off off your statement the next time.
JB> Har! Not a chance.
JB> I'll take 'em off the moment I get _proven_ wrong in some real sense
You've been kicked around so hard that you haven't seen anything
other than the back netting on the goal that's tended by a last
string goalie on the worst team in the league, John.
... 1-666-555-666M The sign of information for the beast!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 07 Mar 97 03:31:29
EID:d973 22671be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8c11
-> On 06 Mar 97 07:30:50, Don Martin got back to Curtis Johnson
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
CJ> Will his last words over the radio have been "Roger"s?
DM> They might have been, but where _they_ went down, there
DM> were no receivers to hear nor any ropes to spin.
Well, where there's a Will There's A Way.
... "We should let sleeping Martins lie, but, can I prod a bit?" Hector
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: O'Gods
|Date: 07 Mar 97 03:43:06
EID:3dbd 22671d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8eca
-> On 03 Mar 97 07:33:49, John Brawley got back to God Ron
GR> * SFEMB 0.41 [?] | John Brawley Quantum but Non_local Whineing God.
JB> Where'd you learn to spell?
The same school that you learned math.
... Eskimo Proverb: He who hestitates is FROST!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 17:47:47
EID:f37f 22678de0
MSGID: 1:123/67 33205549
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f3a36
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
06 Mar 97 16:42, quoting Ken Wiens to Robert Curry:
KW> Perhaps you should also try reading other parts of the Bible.
KW> Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never
Well, lookie what crawled out of his hole. There are plenty of us who
read the bible objectively, Kenny ole boy. Why can't you just let your
book of myths stand or fall on its own?
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 07 Mar 97 17:50:33
EID:f5bf 22678e40
MSGID: 1:123/67 3320559b
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 449954e1
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
05 Mar 97 10:03, quoting John Brawley to David Worrell:
JB> When you get bored _enough_, take my name outta your origin line.
It's not going to happen, John. When should David and I expect that
call from your lawyer?
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: No Good Things
|Date: 07 Mar 97 18:11:55
EID:6d3a 22679160
MSGID: 1:123/67 33205ab4
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f1078
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
06 Mar 97 13:44, quoting Ken Wiens to David Rice:
>> For the most part, atheists simply do not do good and
>> ethical things.-- Jesse C. Jones (the fundy has no clothes)
DR>> Real Life imitates HOLYSMOKE:
DR>> asked me why I did not keep the money I had found. I told
DR>> him it didn't belong to me. He looked vastly confused and
DR>> very upset-+- maybe even angry.
KW> Nah. Couldn't be (lower jaw dropping to the floor).
KW> Well, I'll be damned! It can happen.
You sanctimonious POS. What makes you think that fundies are the only
ones who can be kind or honest?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 07 Mar 97 13:19:18
EID:5f61 22676a60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332015d6
-> On 04 Mar 97 21:29:00, Darryl Gonzalez got back to Martin Goldberg
MG> What has Jess done about Childhood Leukemias?
MG>
DG> He made doctors, pharmacists and medicines.
Them means, of course, you are worshiping the wrong god,
as it is Allah that allowed those advancements in medicine.
Your cult's god did it's best to keep people ignorant. And,
you are a shining example of that ignorance.
... I have never had any use for public schools. -- Jim Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: BIBLE QUOTES
|Date: 07 Mar 97 13:53:43
EID:d82e 22676ea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33201de7
-> On 01 Mar 97 22:55:58, Bryson Hughes got back to Dan Ceppa
BH> agree with you. My cult is in fact a cult of Jesus. However it is not
DC> It's interesting to know that you admit to running a cult.
BH>
BH> People are such alarmist aren't they?
Your ingenuousness is amusing.
BH> in the context of Judaism, and that he is the King of the Jews.
DC> Strange, as the rest of Judaism does not come even close to
DC> acknowledging that "fact".
BH>
BH> I can't account for who acknowledges what. It doesn't really matter.
Of course you can't. After all, your "messiah" does not
come close to fulfilling the requirements of the Jewish bible,
aka the OT.
BH> If a person can benefit from what I stated above, then let him
BH> benefit. I feel it is easily verifiable by his own light efforts.
It's a benenfit to twist one's mind and do backflips to make your
theology work?
DC> Too bad that you probably use the same bible that distorts the
DC> historicity of the Pharisees.
BH> Actually the gospels don't indict the Pharisees nearly so badly as
BH> history does.
Bullshit. You've apparantly never read your bible.
BH> After all, they were the defacto leaders who led their
BH> nation into ruinous revolts in both 70 a.d. and 130 a.d. One wonders
No, they weren't. The revolts were lead by zionists and zealots.
They garnered enough support of the populace to attempt to try
and throw off Roman rule.
BH> Despite that Yeshua prophesied about those events, and warned his
BH> Jewish followers not to fight, but to flee it, he did in fact still
That's Pharisaic thought, as passed down from Hillel.
BH> endorse the Pharisees as authoritatively sitting in the seat of Moses.
Wrong again, stupid. The Saduccees where "the authority", as they
controled the Temple and the rights and donations of the same. The
Parisees couldn't care less about who controlled the Temple.
BH> I wonder if he did not realize they would be needed to fill the role
BH> of holding together the nation in exile.
Hebrews were a nation in exile for the bulk of their existance
even before that event. It was nothing new to them or their
society to be on the move or in captivity.
DC> Nothing written by "Peter" is known to exist.
BH> I wouldn't know if that is fact or not. But it is beside the point.
How many times can you be wrong in a single post?
BH> Peter is cited many times by other authors. Peter was cited in the
Cited from where? His own works or from someone else who claims
to have read Peter's works?
BH> Act's of the Apostles as making the above statement. I think it
BH> was Luke who wrote the Act's account and who recorded Peter's
BH> remarks.
Gee, now that's an unbiased source, NOT! Paul Atriedes is often
quoted in _Dune_ by Heilein. Therefore, Arakis exists.
BH> How do you like those Latin and Greek names those Jewish men had?
That's because the NT was written not by an Aramaic, as your
"Messiah" was but was written via the interpretations of a
Hellenized Roman citizen. Don't you know anything about the
founding of your religion?
You can't even properly prophesies about the past.
... I conceed. Jesus was a man that lived and died. Now get on with it!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Bones for Hector Plasmic - Part One
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:08:19
EID:4659 22677100
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33202153
-> On 01 Mar 97 20:54:42, J.J. Hitt got back to All
JH> @SPLIT: 2 Mar 97 03:14:18 @106/9788 4 01/02 +++++++++++
JH> Some time ago, I mentioned a claim that the bones of Saint Peter had
JH> been located under the Vatican. Hector wanted source material and I
[..]
JH> pointed to the presence of Peter's remains in the vicinity.
J.j.: That was all that came through. I'm assuming that there
is at least one more post to complete it.
Could you resend it?
Thanks!
... "Bones! It's Jerry Garcia!" "He's dead, Jim...and grateful."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: The end of the world is nigh!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:15:00
EID:8d44 226771e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332022e4
-> On 28 Feb 97 11:23:01, Sue Armstrong got back to All
SA> I got a job! A real job! One in an actual factory! (Fitting, no?)
Congradulations!
SA> a week, but they've been known to keep people on permanently. (So
SA> maybe I'm a bit premature here, but I'm thinking optimistically.)
SA> Starts at $7.05/hr, and after six weeks goes up to $7.35. Not
SA> exactly union scale, but I don't particularly care at this point.
Sounds like you will do better if you become permanent and
join the union.
SA> means it doesn't interfere with either Monday or Saturday games.
SA> Heh. Hey, it's the only actual social life I have ...
You should try dancing. After all, the fundys around here
have the best side-steps ever invented.
SA> fixed the car when I did. There ain't no buses out in
SA> corn-field-land.
They are few and far between around here as well.
... Locking wheel nuts: Staal's latest home security device.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:17:14
EID:32d2 22677220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3320236a
-> On 01 Mar 97 05:41:11, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> John? Do you ever bother to read anything at all that is not
DC> addressed to you or has the Quantum Baitshop attatched to it?
JB> I don't _read_ most of the QB-origin line ones unless they have
JB> something worth commenting on. They seldom do. Mostly the echo's
And that explains why you seem to find each and every one of
those origin lines and bitch at their use?
... +Origin: John Brawely's Quantum Bait Shop and Used Car Lot
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:30:19
EID:14bf 226773c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3320267b
-> On 01 Mar 97 05:54:12, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
RS> Old sick joke follows:
RS> [sick joke deleted, not because of space or disapproval, but
RS> just to annoy others who wish they'd been reading along all
RS> along . . .]
RS> That was wonderful. Wish I had one to share in return . . .
What's funny is that Walt's wife has never heard it before. As
it is, that joke is now running rampant over this area.
Stephanie is the local joke girl. I was amazed that I had
finally told one to her that she didn't already know!
I'd relate some more of her's, but she tells jokes far
better than I do...
... Abandon the search for truth: settle on a good fantasy.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:40:13
EID:7dcc 22677500
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332028cd
-> On 01 Mar 97 05:50:08, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
ky> Brine a fundy
RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
RS> Well, that's not something I exactly relish . . .
DC> That' salsa can say about it? Do try to ketchup!
RS> What'sa matter, don't think I can pass mustard? I am NOT
RS> margarine-al at all . . .
DC> That was butter. I may even condiment you on your response.
RS> Oh, what a bunch of horseradish! You're just in a jam and
RS> want to preserves your reputation.
DC> Spread-ing it rather thin, aren't you? I'marmalade that and
DC> won't let it go easily.
RS> Why don't you think about it a bit and let it jelly? Were
RS> you expecting me to cower from some Miracle Whip?
I Worchester a profound idea here: Just Hollandaise are
there until summer? It's cole, slaw, it's cole.
Soy, what's new with you?
... No, Joseph, honest! I NEVER slept with anyone else! (Mary)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 14:46:20
EID:7b85 226775c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33202a3c
-> On 04 Mar 97 03:23:04, Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa
LA> Surely you know that most of the world's highest mountains
>>> ^^^^
LA> have MARINE fossils at or near their peaks. What does that
LA> tell you about how 'high' they must have been in the past?
DC> And, Laurie, there are many others that do not have those
DC> deposits.
LA> Then why don't you tell me and others which these are? In
You are the one that stated, 'most', Laurie. It implies
that you already know that there are others that do not
contain what you require. Do you work at being stupid
or does it come naturally to you?
... "Now please state the theory of creationism." -- Dr Pepper
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:01:17
EID:2006 22677820
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33202dbd
-> On 02 Mar 97 18:31:11, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
RC> it be nice to get a chance at winning a big cash prize just
RC> for filling out your 1040 each year?
RC> Maybe a checkbox for directing a dollar or three to the National
RC> Lottery fund would do the trick.
I remember when the tax forms had _a_ box to select 'Yes' to
put a dollar in the Presidential Election Fund. I wrote
"no-no-no-no" all of the way across that line, as there
was no way do check 'No' as an alternative.
The following year, the form had 'check Yes or No' and
two boxes to make the selection.
... "Apes were invented because politicians were needed." -- Asimov
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 07 Mar 97 21:14:09
EID:2a99 2267a9c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33208521
-> On 02 Mar 97 06:13:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC>I bet you thought I'd warp right out of here.
DC> KW> Knot a chance. I know that you'll just keep bobbin along.
DC> DC>Don't worry, I'll be here for a very loom time. BTW, if I miss
DC> DC>a post or two, it's because I'm taking the shuttle.
DC> KW> Twill be easy enough to wait for you to comb down a reply. With
the
DC> KW> lay here, we can keep a floating thread going forever. I expect
you to
DC> KW> selvedge what you can.
DC>The best I can do is bend it around and pull on the still
DC>standing end. You must be a granny to tie it all up like
DC>that. I think I'll forget about this an go bowline.
KW> I should have known that you'd sloop to sailing terms! How do you
Didn't take you too long to ketch on.
KW> live with the quilt for such a pieced of work? You deserve a batting,
KW> not to mention a binding loss of miter points.
Aw, come on! It was that radial, though I could tri-. After
yawl, you do have a clew. Just tack it in place and head up
the mast.
Just remember that I just fid-dle about and got the whole
thing under control with sailor's palm. I'll try to be
nice and use 1/4 oz material the next time. H
DC>(BTW, nice one with 'selvedge'! 10 points+) Remind me not
KW>
However, if you keep hitting me with ones like that, I'll
go for the 3/4 oz chute as we spin-naker this tale.
... "Adam and Eve aren't going to like this, Yogi..."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 07 Mar 97 21:24:54
EID:550d 2267ab00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332087a6
-> On 02 Mar 97 06:13:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC>pinch, you can substitute a potato.
DC> KW> I saw that . I do suppose that twining vines will soon be a
DC> KW> fashion statement.
DC>I hope not. Someone that unwashed is just a tad bit disgusting.
DC> KW> Wonder if that's the origin of the 'fig leaf' of
DC> KW> biblical fame? Or just the yeast infection from hell?
DC>Interesting point. After all, most very old statues of female
DC>gods are depicted as being quite obese.
KW>