God Damned Fundies!
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: FAQ!!!!
|Date: 07 Mar 97 07:28:26
EID:cf5b 22673b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 331fc3ab
REPLY: 1:3652/1 331E6B8F
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jason!
Mercurii dies March 05 1997, Dixit Jason Harmon ad ALL:
AG>> I fail to see how a cloned sheep can have anything to do with
AG>> Christianity.
E-V-A-N-G-E-L-I-S-M.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ABRAM GARCIA
|Sub: [2/3] True Christiani
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:06:00
EID:58aa 226470c0
Lynda and Abram were killing time yakking about [2/3] True Christiani:
AG> On Fri 28-Feb-1997 12:19p, Lynda Bustilloz@1:109/1111.0 said to Joe
AG> Shedlock: LB> >>> Part 2 of 3...
LB> 3 Q. Who is a true Christian?
LB> A. A true Christian is he who is baptised, who believes and professes
the
LB> Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.
AG> hello Lynda
AG> couid you please explain this Q and A a bit more to me please?
AG> (go into detail about each of these above process that makes a true
AG> christian)
Hi Abram...the portion you are quoting was, I believe (I no longer have
my
original post in front of me), from a catholic catechism....which pope authored
it doesn't come to mind, but it was in the post.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking....the post was in response to
a
question Joe Shedlock had asked seeking to find the 'root' behind the notion
of there being some creature called a "true christian"....I went looking
and
posted my results, regarding references to the idea of what a true christian
is.
As you may have noted, the answer itself varied depending on who was defining
it. As the above is a Roman Catholic view, I'd imagine the elements are:
baptised, using the Catholic formula. I'm not SURE what the requirements
for
an RC baptism are (or which denominations other than themselves they hold
as
offering valid baptisms), but I'm guessing it involves water, oil, and 'in
the name of the father, son and holy spirit'.
Christian Doctrine in that case likely translates into profession of the
Creeds,
and whatever RC dogmas have been decided to be Doctrine.
And lawful pastors....bet me that means the pope and those bishops and priests
considered legitimate by them.
I suspect, somehow, that you felt I was espousing the definition above rather
than just noting it as an example among many. :) I am not Roman Catholic.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Wish I had some idea of what I'm asking. :-!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:20:00
EID:d670 22647280
Jim and Rod were killing time yakking about My Summer Weekend:
JS> I just looked at your list and responded accordingly...
RS> You are commanded not to judge. I'll have to set a harpy onto
RS> you if you don't behave, Jimson.
*Snort!*
Odd, but you don't LOOK like Zeus....
You're getting ahead of yourself, hellion, if you think you have the power
to command where the harpies aim their attention.
:) No fear, if Jim warrants a visit, he'll get one, but it will be by our
own choosing.
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž BRAT: Someone else's kid that behaves like your own.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:29:00
EID:42da 226473a0
Lynda and Jim were killing time yakking about Baby in Critical Conditio:
JS> Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from time
JS> to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the
JS> whole thing and walks away. :)
LB> Wilbur just wants to make sure you aren't talking to the wimmin!
JS> Yeah, well after 30 years she is a bit possessive, ya know. When you
JS> get a good man you don't want to lose same. :)
She got a good man? Aren't you JEALOUS??
Boy, break ONE little leg, and she takes advantage of the opportunity.....
;)
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž "May Fortune favor the foolish." -- Kirk
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: return
|Date: 04 Mar 97 14:36:00
EID:e4c6 22647480
Lynda and Katherine were killing time yakking about return:
LB>I think Michael would find it much safer in the kitchen where he could
keep
LB>a close eye on what ingredients go into what. However he MUST promise
to
KW> keep
LB>the coffee mugs filled, and not to listen too closely to the gossip.
KW> And not to do that goggle eyed thing. I hate it when he does that.
Well, when a manic cat is gouging into your leg, it's pretty hard to keep
your eyes from bugging out!
Lynda Bustilloz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679/
bustilloz@geocities.com http://www.3HarpiesLtd.com
---
ž TLX v4.10 ž Sponge cake: Dessert made of borrowed ingredients.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: << Crystal Aerie >> 703.415.0134 (1:109/1111)
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|From: Roy Mumaw
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Believing vs Nonbelie
|Date: 06 Mar 97 15:00:16
EID:bf6e 22667800
MSGID: 1:212/2001 330eaaab
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3319b20e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7089
> But how can you be guilty of 'wrongful death' in the case of a
> murderwhen another jury has found you NOT guilty of the murder?
"Wrongful death" is a civil charge while homicide is a criminal charge.
In ¨a criminal case, unless the prosecution ("The State") proves the case
¨"beyond a reasonable doubt" (99%), the defendant _must_ be found "not ¨guilty."
In a civil case, the plaintiff (_not_ the gov't) must only prove ¨that there
is a "proponderance of evidence" (51%) that the defendant did ¨something
wrong. Since criminal cases involve life & liberty, while civil ¨cases
involve "only money," it is not viewed as double jeopardy to have a ¨civil
trial regardless of the outcome of the criminal one. The same ¨reasoning
("only money") also is why the defendant may be forced to ¨testify in civil
cases.
O.J. was hardly the first person put in the position (though he got a lot
¨more press than the others). Juries on the civil trials are more frequently
¨swayed by the fact that the defendant was found "not guilty" during ¨criminal
proceding and are usually reluctant to go against it.
--- InterMail 2.29g
* Origin: Chthonic BBS, Nipomo CA (1:212/2001)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:05:36
EID:a7f8 2266a0a0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f28c6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 2f214e4c
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:39, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
JB> (*grin*) There're always things outside our expertise, that we either
JB> become interested in, or find that for some reason we must
JB> accommodate. The _latter_ case applies to me.
You can stick to quantum gods, crickets and nightcrawlers and others
can stick with mathematics.
SS> A-+--->> --C--<-+---B
SS>> where A and B approach the limit of C, one from the positive side
SS>> and one from the negative, even if they approached the limit of C
SS>> where the lim A-C =0 and the lim C-B = 0, they would still be two
SS>> distinct points, no matter how close they came.
JB> (Please clarify your symbols: "lim A-C =0" (and lim C-B = 0). Is
JB> that "A minus C," or is that "A-to-C," or "A in closest approach to
JB> C," or what?)
In this example, A is approaching C from the "negative" side of the number
line and B is approaching from the "positive" side. A minus C approaches
the limit of 0 as A gets closer and closer to C.
JB> Waiting clarification but assuming "lim A-C" means "limit of A
JB> approaching B", then:
No it means that A minus C approaches the limit of 0. If A minus C =
0, then A and C would represent one and the same point.
JB> That's 'damned close' to what I need. Now, can you phrase that more
JB> simply (and/or in short-form (symbolically)), and from _what_
JB> authoritative source can you support it? (You have in essence just
JB> said exactly what I've been claiming is the case, but have done so
JB> without the 'standard math source' that justifies it. If you have the
JB> source, PLEASE cite it?)
I'm quoting it from memory, but the calculus text that I quote earlier is
nearby.
JB> Hmm.... "In Tetrahedraverse:
JB> (dmin) = lim [A,B] if lim [A,B] = 0 "
JB> Does that make sense? ARE they still distinct points if the limit has
JB> gone all the way to actually "zero?"
If it "goes all the way" it is no longer a limit, Bait Son.
JB> Doesn't that imply the limit
JB> has disappeared, since zero has been _reached_?
If A-C = zero in my example above, you have only one point.
Sometimes you can't take the limit all the way, John. Here is another
example:
f(x) = (2x+ 3)(x-1)/(x-1) This function is defined for all values except
x= 1 because dividing by zero is a no-no.
What happens if you let x approach the limit of 1? If you do that then
f(x) approaches the limit of 5, but it can never be 5. Never, never,
never.
JB> Are you saying, here, that the concept of limits, used as in standard
JB> calculus, enables me to "correctly" and formally establish both a
JB> noncoalescence axiom and a minimum distance (or separation) axiom?
I haven't seen that Brawleyian terminology in any math book. Study my
example above.
JB> If
JB> so, I will quite readily and with speed unimagined by the denizens
JB> of
JB> this echo, locate it and begin USING it. Do you have a formal
JB> reference, and.....
_The Calculus_ by Louis Leithold was my college textbook in 1968. I have
it right here. Any calculus textbook would state it much the same.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: complaints
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:34:02
EID:28d5 2266a440
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2d3d
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 86b6f696
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:06, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
The reference you were looking for?
SS>> From: Leithold, Lewis, (1968) _The Calculus_, New York, Harper &
SS>> Row Publishers, p.144.
SS>> 6.4.1 Definition. If y = f (x), the instantaneous rate of change
SS>> of y with respect to x at x(1) is the derivative of y with
SS>> respect to x at x(1) if it exists there.
JB> Fine. That's how the calculus _works_. So? You _define_ your way
JB> into correctness, instead of reasoning your way there? How Fundie of
JB> you. (*chuckle*)
What an absolutely stoopid thing to say, Brawley. If you had ever actually
had your nose in a calculus textbook, you would know that such a definition
is preceeded by pages and pages of theorems and proofs.
JB> Does your _mind_ find temporal width to an "instant?" If it does,
JB> then you are correct within your system (or in your understanding of
JB> another system). If your mind does NOT find temporal width to an
JB> "instant," you will have to find another system with which to justify
JB> your stance.
Are you begging the question, Bait Boy? In calculus, the derivative of
a
function is defined as an instantaneous rate of change.
This is a basic and fundamental concept.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:47:17
EID:56b9 2266a5e0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2eb7
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 cdb3cedc
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 14:13, quoting John Brawley to Shelby Sherman:
SS> SS>>> lim x ===> infinity is no less efficient in coming close
SS> SS>>> to infinity than lim x ===> 0 is to coming close to 0
SS>> Did you understand this, or did the volley sail clear?
JB> I understood it. It's "mathematically correct," as far as it goes.
JB> It does not go to conceptual sensibility. Infinity, as a totally
JB> unbounded concept,
Infinity is limited to mathematics, John.
JB> is not conceptually the same as zero, which is a
JB> final, _small_ bound. The conceptual quality of the mind grasps
JB> 'zero' as a final limit, but not infinity as an _open_ 'limit.' The
JB> internal-subjective meaning of "limit" is different: to _limit_ by
JB> zero is intuitive; a "closure" can be imagined. To _limit_ by
JB> infinity is an oxymoron.
Are you trying to erect a straw man, or simply stating that infinity
is bigger than zero?
SS> SS>>> How shocking. Mathematically, I can push the limit equally
SS> SS>>> in either direction.
JB>> Mathematically, you can. You must have missed the difference
JB>> between "math" and "reality." "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit
JB>> more easily than can "infinity." In imaging, zero _stops_
JB>> thought, but 'infinity' does not. (Can not.)
SS> SS>>> lim x/1 as x -+-> infinity = lim 1/x as x -+-> 0
infinity = infinity
To complete the equation.
JB> Infinity is addable-to, yet remains infinity, as some here have been
JB> so self-congratulatory for presenting, but zero is NOT addable-to (nor
JB> subractable-from) without completely eradicating it.
SS> SS>>> You're debunked, Bait Son.
JB>> I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
JB>> (Thank God for small favors.)
You are also battling a straw man. The only point that you are making
is that an infinitly large number is larger than zero.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: God exacts justice!!!
|Date: 06 Mar 97 20:55:48
EID:1d6c 2266a6e0
MSGID: 1:123/67 331f2fa6
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 361d586c
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
04 Mar 97 17:16, quoting John Brawley to Rod Swift:
RS>> Oh, is this the Quantum Bait Shop? I'm sorry, I wanted the local
RS>> branch of the Bank of America.
JB> No, it isn't the Quantum Bait Shop. Worrell runs that.
Worrell runs bait shop #7. Get it right.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: OOPS, CAUGHT AGAIN
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:27:01
EID:d683 22661360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2b75
-> On 04 Mar 97 11:02:52, Judith Bandsma got back to Jim Staal
JS> Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on some street
JB> worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot...on crutches.
It
JB> You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here but you
JB> can't even do something I did.
That's because you are a woman and Staal is, well ... Staal.
... +Origin: MAUDLIN! NETWORK: Whining and crying for Jesus Christ!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:30:10
EID:6231 226613c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2c32
-> On 04 Mar 97 01:18:30, Judith Bandsma got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
JB> Godzilla Meets Abbott and Costello, maybe?
Very unlikely, it's _Bambi Meets Godzilla_
BTW, it's a real movie, or rather, cartoon. It's a must-see.
... A "died-again" Satanist? I _like_ it, I _like_ it!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Charles Creager
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:45:47
EID:801a 226615a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e2fdb
-> On 01 Mar 97 15:58:01, Charles Creager got back to Katherine Wintersnight
CC>
CC> ... Trust your neighbors, but brand your cattle.
CC> -!- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
CC> ! Origin: The Cat House BBS - Greer, SC (FIDONET 1:3639/88)
Got your underwear bunched up too tight, Charlie?
That's all that came through in that message.
... Ad Hoc, Ad Nauseum and Ad Hominen: the Holy Trinity of Stringfellow
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Charles Creager
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 06 Mar 97 02:56:38
EID:801a 22661700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e3266
-> On 01 Mar 97 16:11:02, Charles Creager got back to Katherine Wintersnight
CC> I do not know whether you or someone else is the originator of the
CC> following quote, but I found it on your message. KW> * OLXWin 1.00a
*
CC> "God is an asshole"--MB
You're new to this, aren't you?
It's a tagline, Chuckie. And, do fix your OLR.
CC> I really feel sorry for the person or persons
CC> that speak of God in that manner.
Which God? There are just so many to choose from.
CC> I feel sorry for them because they
CC> will have to answer to that God.
Fuck that God. There are many nicer, kinder Gods out there if
you feel the need to believe in a God. All other Gods are a
step above the Gods that your deathcult worships.
CC> not to neglect the salvation that God has provided through His Son,
CC> Jesus Christ (Cf. Hebrews 2:3). Whether or not you have done so, I
do
Isn't he the one that was supposed to come "back in this generation"?
You know, the generation that was over about 2,000 years ago?
CC> what I have read that YOU have written), then you are headed for a
CC> Godless enternity. Don't say that you will have many friends there.
There is much to be said about that that is very appealing.
CC> There you will have NO friends. I am your friend, because I am
CC> concerned for your soul.
So, in fiendship[sic], you attempt to consign her to hell. Right
neighborly of you. What do you do for your next trick? Threaten
her with your most powerful God, Satan?
CC> ! Origin: The Cat House BBS - Greer, SC (FIDONET 1:3639/88)
I'm sure you visit it often, wearing your trenchcoat and a large
hat to hide your face.
... Bad news, Charles. I sold your soul to the devil.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 06 Mar 97 03:30:35
EID:d973 22661bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331e3a5b
-> On 05 Mar 97 15:36:28, Don Martin got back to Judith Bandsma
JB> Wiley PAST? At the Post? Oh dear, dare I look?
DM> Only us old farts remember one-eyed pilots, Bandsma . . .
DM> Trivia spot for the youngsters here, what actor/commedian was
DM> riding with this pilot in his final crash?
Wasn't it Will Rogers?
... +Origin: Prostitutes Network! Laying laymen for the Lawrd!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: flood
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:33:38
EID:475b 22670c20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7072
-> On 05 Mar 97 07:08:08, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Talked to a guy the other day on what may be this very
DC> topic:
BH> I also find the existance of quick frozen woolly mammoths quite a
BH> wonder.
DM> I do not doubt that you do.
Well, there are an awful lot of mastodon finds around this
area. They literaly fall out of the cliff near the Dungeness
Spit.
DC> His thesis was: "If it wasn't already very cold, why where
DC> the mammoths woolly?"
DM> Ah, many and varied are the chat topics in Sequim. Did
DM> he also find them "quite a wonder" (Clap hands and sing!)?
No, he was far too intelligent to be a fundy. As it was, he
gave me some good advice with dealing with the local school
board. However, I'm not sure if anyone has that much C-4
and no one real knows how far it is to hell and back,
though he felt that at least a one way ride would be good.
... The principle business of life is to enjoy it!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:35:49
EID:2236 22670c60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f70f5
-> On 05 Mar 97 09:47:34, Jim Staal got back to ROBERT CURRY
RC> Children do not bear the sins of their parents. Ezekiel, chapter 18.
JS> Doesn't negate Rom 3:23. They do bear the sin of Adam.
That's your founder, Saul speaking. Your supposed founder
said, "I came not to remove a single dot or tittle of the law."
Face it Jimbo, you follow the religion started by a charlatan.
... Religion n. Bullshit couched in lies.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:43:40
EID:0002 22670d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f72cc
-> On 04 Mar 97 05:56:25, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> "the one he loved". If it is given Jesus loves us all, then a
RS> special mention about this very special relationship with a very
JS> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone.
JS> (Rom 9:13 NIV) Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I
JS> hated."
Thank you for pointing out that your omni-benevolent god
isn't, Jimbo. You should feel proud that you showed your
god to be a bigot and a fucking son of a bitch.
... Messiah looking for jailbait = Jesus of Swaggart.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:46:54
EID:0002 22670dc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f738e
-> On 05 Mar 97 06:20:16, Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander
SA> I understand) expected men to marry. Why did he not then marry, but
SA> not have "relations" with his wife?
JS> Very simple: He didn't marry because, as scripture points out many
JS> many times, the church is His bride. He didn't have offspring in order
That's Saul's dogma that you follow, Jimbo. You keep forgetting
about the "not change a dot or tittle" that was said by your
godling. Is Saul more powerful than your golding?
... +Origin: PAUL HILL, NETWORK! Killing people for an all-loving Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lower
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:01:48
EID:0a72 22671020
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f770c
-> On 04 Mar 97 06:50:39, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
JS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer is a better
JS> role model than a lesbian???
Just when I thought you couldn't sink lower than the bottom
of the cesspool, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
You are one big piece of shit, Staal.
... "I dont't think that Jesus would have gone for this shit." M Glodberg
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Reality 101.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:03:30
EID:c546 22671060
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7772
-> On 06 Mar 97 04:41:12, Laurie Appleton got back to Jan Deboer
JD> strolling around Mt. St. Helens with "former President
JD> Harry Truman" a decade AFTER Truman died?
LA> As I have pointed out it was Harry Truman and myself that
LA> were looking for John Musselwhite, who wanted to find
You must have had a great talk with him, knowing that you
were talking with the former Prez.
... "Facts we ignore today. The lies we make up take a bit longer" ICR
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:09:49
EID:32f4 22671120
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f78ed
-> On 05 Mar 97 09:21:11, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> check out the mirror.
DC> Try it yourself, asswipe. Judith is the lady you always
DC> wanted to be.
JS> Lady? Lady? Wilbur is a lady. Judith is an obnoxious woman.
Keep stomping your feet, Jimbo. It's fun to watch you attempt
to communicate with the women in here that don't take bullshit
from you. I'm sure your Wilbur has to put kitty litter underneath
your chair everytime you attempt to go one-on-one with a
female superior.
BTW, a helpful hint: By it in 50# bags. Better yet, you
could do yourself better if you bought it by the pallet-load.
... Exodus 21:7-11 Female servants are sex slaves.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:38:00
EID:9cd0 226714c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f7f88
-> On 04 Mar 97 10:11:00, Lynda Bustilloz got back to JOHN BRAWLEY
JB> |[-3]|[-2]|[-1]|[+1]|[+2]|[+3]|
JB> | | | | | | |
JB> -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3
LB> You mean....make each number a marker between sets of one block each?
LB> Did you not JUST argue the 'nonintuitiveness' of that?
LB> In your set of blocks...the +1 block represents the NUMBER +1,
LB> right?...and the block marked -1 represents the NUMBER -1? Then why
LB> would you NOT have a block representing the NUMBER zero?
Gee, Lynda, for someone that is so mathematically 'incompetent',
you seem to have noticed the "minor" descrepancy in John's
very personal number line. In fact, your daughter already
knows how to handle numbers down to ZERO.
LB> ... If you can't hack it, then pick up your marbles and go home.
Leaving you with ZERO of his marbles on the table!
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:42:51
EID:bf5b 22671540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f80ab
-> On 04 Mar 97 12:36:34, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
MO>> I'll take Hell anyday. Afterall, there's bound to be a good pub there.
DC> If there ain't we'll open one, charging a hefty fee at the door
DC> for the xians that are trying to sneak in for a cold one.
MO> Mate, we'll make a fortune. We'll ahve to keep a reserve of make-up
on
MO> hand for the Tammy-Faye's as well. That'd be pretty lucrative too IMO.
Lucrative?!??!!! It would be the mother lode!
... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago tune of the Beast.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:45:23
EID:4fbf 226715a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8143
-> On 04 Mar 97 22:32:04, David Worrell got back to Jim Staal
JS> ... In my Father's house are many mansions. - John 14:2
DW> I wonder if you're going to be allowed to keep old, dead cars up on
DW> blocks in your yard in Heaven.
That's where his god is parked, isn't it?
BTW, the EPA is going to fine him for all that blood that
the old wreck is spilling into the envirnonment.
... "El O'him: God is an Irish Mexican." J.j. Hitt
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Have enough already, dickbrain?
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:54:08
EID:48cb 226716c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8350
-> On 05 Mar 97 00:54:04, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> G'day, Mark. (See, I can talk in Aussie, too!)
MO> :-) Next thing we know you'll be guzzling beer, throwing seafood on
MO> the barby and pretending you have no sexual interest in sheep.
Beer's good. So are BBQ'd clams. As to sheep: Is it sexual
to like a good leg of one?
MO> [Abram Garcia]
MO> *** To : Almaz
MO> *** Subj: nu-bible.txt
> Did you know the majority of agnostics are athiests? I didn't.
--------
I take it Almazed was really amazed at that.
Really, do be nice to him and con, err..., convice him that
he has to post here.
... `Faith' means not wanting to know what is true.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 07 Mar 97 02:59:15
EID:1472 22671760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f8483
-> On 04 Mar 97 15:50:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> KY> Brine a fundy
DC> DC> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
DC> DC> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
DC> DC> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
DC> DC>Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
DC> DC>insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
DC> DC>You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
DC> KW> That's how she makes her bread and butter.
DC>She could always bring home the pigs' feet instead.
KW> I hadn't thought about that aspic.
And, having done that, it all jelled together, I'm sure.
... Only an atheist can be a good Christian. - Ernst Bloch
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: most Xians only "iffy"
|Date: 07 Mar 97 03:04:24
EID:e254 22671880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 331f85b8
-> On 05 Mar 97 01:41:32, Mark O'Neill got back to Dan Ceppa
MO> [The Pope/Polish descent]
MO>> I've pondered that on occasion myself. Time to do a little research
DC> Strange, O'Neil doesn't sound Polish...
MO> It's Irish. But I can't see how it matters.
However, it's why I'm pissed!
DC> However, I do think that the Vatican is on the web. Not
MO> Well, it is on there. I got the address off somebody in here
Find anything good?
MO> there is a large gif of the pope and that's about it. You'd think that
MO> as the head of the catholic church they'd at least have a decent
MO> webpage.
It's modern technology. The RCC tries its best to ignore
it for as long as it can. The, like with Galileo, it
pardons them for the truth 400 years later.
... "Galileo is wrong!": RCC, "Sit on it an rotate!" Galileo
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 06 Mar 97 11:33:00
EID:5d7a 22665c20
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331ef1bc
MB>On (03 Mar 97) Judith Bandsma babbled to Marilyn Burge...
Marilyn Burge said, in a huffy tone of voice, to RIC CARTER <=-
MB> Fundies may subconsciously make the choice to be braindead.
JB> Uh, don't they do that consciously?
MB>If you're braindead, you aren't conscious. Or haven't you
MB>noticed that trait in the fundies we get here -- the cream
MB>of the crop, as it were.
'Fundy' as defined and used in this Conference seems to
include anyone who believes in God. That includes a very
wide spectrum of beliefs indeed. So, the 'cream of the crop'
of fundies turning up here is highly unlikely. For that
would include some very highly educated people from a wide
variety of disciplines.
Now if you mean 'fundy' in the sense of one who subscribes
to inerrancy of the Bible, Jesus as the Only Way, etc. That
is another story and automatically narrows the list.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * I can't even *find* amok, let alone run one.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Accepting Reality
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:15:02
EID:b925 226669e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f09a6
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
SQ> Watch how rational the fundies become when you start
SQ>telling them that the Book of Mormon is factual. :)
JH>I have. And the Koran. Since a friend of mine FINALLY
JH>found out a few weeks ago about my beliefs (or lack thereof),
JH>he's made an on-and-off attempt to convert me. He quickly
JH>realized that he was overmatched. He can't understand why
JH>I keep smiling and laughing when he's talking about Hell. :->
JH>"What can I say, I'M EVIL!!"
Yah. Some of us go berserk when you start telling us either
the Book of Mormon or the Koran are factual. Well, perhaps
most of us. What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!"
BTW, do you try to convert your fundy friend to your
viewpoint? I mean, if he has figured he is overmatched...
well, there is your opportunity.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Did you get my memo about the squid-tossing contest?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:32:04
EID:8e4e 22666c00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f0da4
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Jason Harmon <=-
JH>I trust you never hug, kiss, flirt, dance, and/or hold hands
JH>with a woman in public. After all, you said above no one needs
JH>to advertise their sexual orientation.
KY>That's not what I mean by "advertise." I mean specifically
KY>try to advance a pro gay agenda.
JH>That's advertising a political philosophy. And what do you
JH>mean by "pro gay agenda"? Wanting to be treated like normal
JH>people? Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
JH>all eternity?
Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
eternity would not be part of it. The Bible says those who
practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Did you take a shower? There seems to be one missing...
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: You Forgot To Answer
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:40:06
EID:4ca2 22666d00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f0f86
-=> Quoting Ken Young <=-
KY>All the proof [of a god's existance-- dr] I need is that
KY>we are here. At least until, someone can provide me a
KY>better explanation of how we originally got here.
DR>What you are saying is that your belief is based upon merely
DR>ignorance. That is, you do not understand a process therefore
DR>you attribute the process to the will of the gods.
He is easily persuaded. Some are. Some are not. The processes
involved in our getting here is an interesting topic.
Recently a Professor of Biochemistry at Lehigh University
wrote a book saying the complexity of biochemical processes
and entities lead him to the conclusion of intelligent
design as the answer. "Darwin's Black Box" by Michael J.
Behe. I for one would like to see a detailed critique of
that book by another biochemist who comes to different
conclusions.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Urinalysis: The study of Pissed-Off People.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: No Good Things
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:44:08
EID:e642 22666d80
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f1078
>For the most part, atheists simply do not do good and
>ethical things.-- Jesse C. Jones (the fundy has no clothes)
DR>Real Life imitates HOLYSMOKE:
DR>Saturday I went down to Minney's Ship Chandlery looking
DR>for a storm jib and some chain. Outside I parked next to a
DR>station wagon that was heavily burdened with various
DR>"JESUS IS LORD" stickers, including my ever-favorate "Real
DR>Men Love Jesus." While I was hauling 160 feet of 1/4-inch
DR>chain out of a barrel, I noticed there was a US$20.00 bill
DR>on the ground behind someone who was standing at the
DR>cashier. Since he had a fist full of money, I assumed the
DR>bill was his so I picked it up, got his attention, and
DR>handed the twenty dollars to him.
DR>"Oh!" he yelped. He took the bill while issuing such
DR>insults as "God Bless you, the lord bless you!" (in a Ned
DR>Flanders voice) at me. He then asked me when I was
DR>"saved," aparently believing me to be a co-fundy. Of
DR>course I assumed a pretensed expression of non-
DR>understanding and told him I have yet to be shipwreaked.
DR>He said "No, no, no, no, I mean when did Jesus save you?"
DR>When I said I was atheist, he took one step backwards and
DR>said "You're kidding, right?" I insisted I was not. He
DR>then looked at the twenty dollar bill I had returned to
DR>him as if it were a snake, then looked back at me and
DR>asked me why I did not keep the money I had found. I told
DR>him it didn't belong to me. He looked vastly confused and
DR>very upset--- maybe even angry.
Nah. Couldn't be (lower jaw dropping to the floor).
Well, I'll be damned! It can happen.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * ......................Cut Along Dotted Line..............
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Bible Quotes
|Date: 06 Mar 97 13:52:10
EID:cd65 22666e80
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f125a
LB>Lynda and Roger were killing time yakking about BIBLE QUOTES:
RH>So tell me, Bryson, do you follow the Levitical laws? Does Harvey
RH>Smith over on Cult Watch know you are using his cult name?
LB>Oh MAN...I haven't thought about Harvey in years....is he still
LB>around??
RH>Dunno. I quit reading Cult Watch when he booted me for being
RH>irreverent. (I asked him how YHVH was any better than Hitler.)
LB>*chuckle* Harvey was the first to really zero in on the false
LB>christian scumminess of my beliefs....I was obviously of the
LB>devil because I engage in positive DISCUSSION with the pagans
LB>there instead of blasting them.I recall one delightful tirade
LB>where I was a "whited sepulcher", leading them to hell myself
LB>with my irrational idea that god wasn't pissed off at them.
LB>I think I was getting close to getting booted...most of the pagans
LB>I was talking to already had been, but I moved away from Phoenix
LB>about then, never picked the echo back up once I got here.
Harvey is still around. He and at least one other fellow moderate
the Fido Open Bible Conference. I don't know if Cult Watch is
still around. I don't even remember if Cult Watch was or is a
Fido echo. I think it was a Family Net Conference. The Board I
used to pick that one up on is now gone. BBS's are closing
down one right after the other these days. It seems many are
heading for the Internet Newsgroups instead. People who
complain about the volume on HolySmoke ought to try some
of those Newsgroups.
Harvey is pretty strict. Always has been. There were a few
times I almost got booted from one or another of the
Conferences he moderates and I'm a pretty strict fundy
myself.
There is one fellow on the Rime Religion Conference I
keep telling to come over to Holysmoke. He would fit in
perfectly here. He hates fundies and loves to make fun
of them. But the restrictions on that Conference smother
his evil propensities in that direction. Oh well, maybe
someday he will...
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * "Hex Dump" - Where Witches put used Curses?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 06 Mar 97 15:15:12
EID:6eee 226679e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f25d0
DG>About bigotry being authorized by the Bible: Cite me a
DG>"Thou shalt a bigot" from the Bible.
DM>"Happy is he who dashes the brains of your little ones upon the
DM>stones" serves pretty well as an indication that Babylonians were
DM>not _quite_ on a par with the Chosen Race. While it does not
DM>explicitly enunciate a _rule_ of bigotry, it is, I think,
DM>sufficiently bigoted to satisfy most Nazis.
The quote comes from Psalm 137:9. You can only come to the
conclusion you do by leaving out critical details. The
writer of those sentiments was a captive in Babylon at
the time this was written. The sentiments expressed were
a reaction to how the Babylonians had treated the Hebrew
children when they took Israel captive. The sentiments
expressed hardly constitute bigotry in such a situation.
Unless, of course, you would be willing to carry the label
"bigot" for feeling like someone who had dashed your baby's
head against the rocks should get the same in return.
Sheesh! And they call fundies brain-dead.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * This message has been approved by the Illuminati.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:42:14
EID:25b3 22668540
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3a36
LB>Unless you're talking to Jim Staal - then the baby is going
LB>to hell if mama isn't saved.
MG>Babies are totally innocent. Why do any of them need to go
MG>to hell?
JS> None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin.
JS> Romans 3:23.
RC>Children do not bear the sins of their parents.
RC>Ezekiel, chapter 18.
RC>Perhaps you might try reading other parts of that bible you thump,
RC>Jimbo. Or have you decided that Ezekiel chapter 18 is not really a
RC>part of your bible?
Perhaps you should also try reading other parts of the Bible.
Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never
being held against the sons. Moses, on the other hand,
in Exodus 20:5 has in view the consequences of the fathers
sins. Psalm 51:5 says that even from birth man is polluted
with sin. Psalm 58:3 confirms the same, as does Ephesians
2:3 and many other passages. Take your own advice. Read
the Bible thoroughly on this subject. Get yourself a good,
comprehensive concordence and trace the topic thru the
Bible.
RC>Even better than babbling bible verses, try thinking for
RC>a change.
Add to thinking thorough study of your subject before
commenting on it.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Pascal programmers do it with indentations.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:49:16
EID:9267 22668620
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3bdc
JS>I do know that Jesus Christ promised, approximately 2,000
JS>years ago that He would return...and He will. Trust me.
RC>While you're waiting, would you be interested in buying a
RC>bridge?
2 Pet 3:3-9
3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will
come with {their} mocking, following after their own lusts,
4and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For {ever}
since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was
from the beginning of creation."
5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by
the word of God {the} heavens existed long ago and {the} earth
was formed out of water and by water,
6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded
with water.
7But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved
for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly
men.
8But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that
with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years
as one day.
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for
all to come to repentance.
(NAS)
Isn't it wonderful being a part of fulfilled prophecy?
cc: to Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * "Any fool can be a skeptic." -- R.C. Sproul
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Mar 97 17:04:20
EID:2a74 22668880
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f3f64
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Marilyn <=
JS>Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on
JS>some street corner with strangers.
JB>The rest of us work for a living. Your begging in the echo
JB>makes you about 6 steps lower than the people you bitch about
JB>who are drawing welfare.
JB>Go get a job, Jim. And don't give me 'can't work on crutches'
JB>cause I worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot
JB>...on crutches. It might not have been easy but I did it.
JB>You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here
JB>but you can't even do something I did.
For once I fully agree with one who does not profess to be a
christian over against one who does. I find that very highly
commendable that you worked at the Holiday Inn with a broken
foot. I see no basis for a christian to beg if they are at all
able to work.
I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
summer. But the company had gone thru two owners during the
time I was out. I've been looking for work actively since,
sending out my resume to prospective employers, going for
interviews, improving my computer skills. Heck, on top of
this I've done odd jobs doing maintenance and upkeep on
people's computers. There are so many people who buy
computers who know next to nothing about them. I've
even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
unchristian thing to do.
cc: Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * If it's too loud, you're too old.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 06 Mar 97 17:21:22
EID:0f79 22668aa0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f4362
JS>So then, what [do you] find disgusting in the Bible? I find the tr
JS>to be exciting myself. Everytime I read through scripture, it beco
JS>alive and new all over again.
DH>It was Paul of course, No Jesus, who deified Christ as the
DH>messiah. Jesus never claimed to be the only son of god, not
DH>the messiah, nor the king of the jews, save for a flippant
DH>answer to Pilate that never acknowledged Chris's opinion.
You haven't read the Gospels very carefully, have you?
Well, for starters how about this? Note it is not from
Paul or from Jesus dialog with Pilate:
John 4:25-26
25The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming
(He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will
declare all things to us."
26Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am {He."}
(NAS)
Guess what? Paul was not the only one to call
Jesus Messiah. Nor was Paul the only one to
deify Jesus the Messiah. Note further:
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing
came into being that has come into being.
(NAS)
John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld
His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full
of grace and truth.
(NAS)
John 8:58-59
58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham
was born, I am."
59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid
Himself, and went out of the temple.
(NAS)
If you think Paul was the only one who called Jesus Messiah
and deified Him you have a whole lot of study in the New
Testament you are going to have to do. The above passages
are just to whet your appetite.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Stand like a beaten anvil. S. Ignatius
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 06 Mar 97 19:32:18
EID:8859 22669c00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331f6212
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Marilyn <=
JS>Why is that 'tackey'? Better hear among friends than on
JS>some street corner with strangers.
JB>The rest of us work for a living. Your begging in the echo
JB>makes you about 6 steps lower than the people you bitch about
JB>who are drawing welfare.
JB>Go get a job, Jim. And don't give me 'can't work on crutches'
JB>cause I worked as a maid at a Holiday Inn with a broken foot
JB>...on crutches. It might not have been easy but I did it.
JB>You bill yourself as so superior to everyone else around here
JB>but you can't even do something I did.
For once I fully agree with one who does not profess to be a
christian over against one who does. I find that very highly
commendable that you worked at the Holiday Inn with a broken
foot. I see no basis for a christian to beg if they are at all
able to work.
I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
summer. But the company had gone thru two owners during the
time I was out. I've been looking for work actively since,
sending out my resume to prospective employers, going for
interviews, improving my computer skills. Heck, on top of
this I've done odd jobs doing maintenance and upkeep on
people's computers. There are so many people who buy
computers who know next to nothing about them. I've
even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
to make money on my own. I find that a decidedly
unchristian thing to do.
cc: Jim Staal
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * If it's too loud, you're too old.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: book of interest
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:09:38
EID:2d52 22670920
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6b91
PID: GED3 2.5
Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy
Frederick Clarkson
Common Courage Press/Login, dist.
1 Red Barn Road, Monroe, ME 04951
1-56751-088-4 $15.95 (pb) 1-56751-089-2 $29.95 (hc) 1-800-243-0138
Frederick Clarkson's Eternal Hostility provides a chilling road map to a
growing movement whose roots go back to the founding days of the country.
Clarkson asks the reader to consider what it would be like if having an
abortion was punishable by death, if gays and lesbians were thrown into
jail, or if our constitutional rights were replaced by biblical law. In
a stunning analysis, Clarkson debunks the "objective" bestseller Culture
Wars to reveal a tract written by a rightwing church elder. Chastising
liberals and the left for failing to recognize the depth of the threat to
liberty, Clarkson argues that we must develop a coherent response to a well-organized
effort aimed at overthrowing democracy. When he exposes the aims and strategies
of such diverse Christian zealots as the "Promise Keepers" and the Unification
Church of Sun Myung Moon, remember that it was Clarkson who first to exposed
the Christian Coalition's plans to take over the Republican Party, plans
which have largely succeeded in several states and was actually seen as
it was acted out on television in the 1996 Texas Republic Convention. Clarkson
was also the first to expose how elements of the Christian Right were encouraging
the formation of citizen "militias" almost five years before the Oklahoma
City bombing propelled the militia movement into general public awareness.
Eternal Hostility is a warning bell in the night and is essential reading
for any secular humanist or freethinker needing to be aroused from a complacency
that "it can't happen here" -- because it has, it is, and it may well succeed
if enough good men do nothing to stop it.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
The Midwest Book Review is an organization dedicated to the encouragement
of literacy and the promotion of community library useage. All MBR reviewers
are volunteers. No funding is accepted from any publisher or author. Most
of the books receiving our recommendation are available through your local
public library, either directly or through the inter-library loan service.
Full permission is granted to anyone wishing to forward any or all of our
reviews to thematically appropriate internet discussion groups, newsgroups,
or listserves.
Your comments can be sent by email to any of the addresses listed below.
You are also invited to visit the MBR website. Please request our "Reviewer
Guidelines" if you would like to add your own reviews to the MBR website.
Midwest Book Review
James A. Cox, Editor-in-Chief
Diane C. Donovan, Editor
278 Orchard Drive, Oregon, WI 53575
1-608-835-7937
mbr@execpc.com
mwbookrevw@aol.com
http://www.execpc.com/~mbr/bookwatch/
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: help
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:18:35
EID:608f 22670a40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6d0e
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 330da02e
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Feb 97 00:45, Don Martin wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> you were the original poster. If you've still got it, could you
DW>> send a copy to azirafel@concentric.net?
DM> Being extremely vain about my productions here, I take great
DM> pleasure in sending the file. (You probably already have it by the
DM> time you read this.)
Indeed I did. Judging from the date on this message, you got caught in that
time warp.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: US CyberCensor Law
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:19:29
EID:3042 22670a60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6d49
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1e879a4d
PID: GED3 2.5
02 Mar 97 08:29, Fredric Rice wrote to David Worrell:
>> Seen any TANKS lately?
FR> Remember the one here in San Diego that was stollen and
FR> then run down residential streets and the freeways while a thousand
FR> cops (and their dogs) chased after it utterly incapable of stopping
FR> it?
Yep. I saw that one on TV. Funniest shit I've seen on TV in a long time.
FR> This Perker right-wing extremist lunatic wants to be another George
FR> Mooth.
He wants a TANK of his very own.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Clones vs Clowns
|Date: 07 Mar 97 01:21:24
EID:8d82 22670aa0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 331f6da7
REPLY: 1:229/622 331d6f06
PID: GED3 2.5
05 Mar 97 13:03, Judith Bandsma wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Heh. I wonder if you can change the sex of a clone? That might be
DW>> the best way to find a woman I can get along with. :)
JB> The likeliest end of that scenario would have us attending the funeral
JB> of both of you. Do YOU really think you could live with...-you-?
Indeed I could. :)
I do every day, after all.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 05 Mar 97 09:55:09
EID:7f32 22654ee0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 7de2c3d1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331ad4e1
On 03 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> DC>>> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
DW> JB>> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're,"
DW> DW>> Are you claiming that the word "your" in the above should be
DW> DW>> replaced with "you're?"
DW> DW>> Are you *really* saying this?
DW> DW>> Who ya gonna call black next, Mr. Pot?
JB> Quote the whole message, in which it's obvious in the _previous_
JB> comment from him, he used "your" for "you're."
DW> Your wish is my command.
Not likely. Now, are you _blind_? Look down 11 lines:
DW> === Cut ===
DW> Ä Holysmoke (1:123/67.7) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ HOLYSMOKEÄ
DW> Msg : 4233 of 5249 +4298
DW> From : John Brawley 1:100/435.1 25 Feb 97 10:34:18
DW> To : Dan Ceppa 28 Feb 97 02:33:34
DW> Subj : Ceppa - Holographic
DW> ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DW> On 23 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> Your right. I should have said the the Moon is made out of
.....****
See this?
DC> Green Cheese -OR- Blue Cheese to keep your analogy intact.
JB> That's better. Ludicrous, but better.
DC> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
DW> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're," typos "in" rather
DW> than "is" and doesn't proofread/correct, and thinks "better" implies
DW> "accurate?" Who handed out _your_ degree?
DW>
DW> === Cut ===
JB> (Mr. Sophist David, _sir_.)
DW> Yes, John? Are you gonna blame this mistake on Berlinski, too?
No, I'm gonna blame it either on Dan (see the '....****'), or on your
_own_ thought that the case noted isn't incorrect.
I congratulate you on your honesty. You must have missed seeing the
instance of "your" noted above, that was what I referred to in my
"English major" comment. That, or else you yourself are one of those
who uses the word incorrectly. I give you the benefit of the doubt.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Its a dogma-eat-dogma world!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Alignment List, part
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:03:54
EID:5474 22655060
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 449954e1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331ade70
On 03 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 01 Mar 97 11:49, John Brawley wrote to Katherine Wintersnight:
JB> Hence the specific word "Quantum?" Really.
JB> Face it Katherine; _Worrell_ runs the "bait shop"; he's just using my
JB> name on it without paying a royalty,
DW> My legal staff is still waiting on your lawsuit.
DW> They're getting rather bored, in fact. I think I'm going to have them
DW> paint my house while we're waiting.
When you get bored _enough_, take my name outta your origin line.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... The most difficult thing to open is a closed mind.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: geometry
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:05:50
EID:dae4 226550a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2dd33bd6
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fb
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> JB>> Oh, you don't want to start _that_ shit here, do you?
JS> why? did you fail calculus too? or just grade 2 math?
JB> A's in geometry, D's in algebra. Go figger. I have a top-notch
JB> visualizer-conceptualizer, and an abominable abstracter, in the
JB> same brain.
RC> Everyone is different. So are you familiar with the five regular
RC> convex polyhedra? Sometimes called the Platonic Solids. Then there
RC> are four more regular polyhedra, though not convex, which are
RC> named the Archimedean Solids. How are you at visualizing objects
RC> such as these?
I can doubtless visualize them all. I don't recall them from memory,
since I don't use my memory to store things I can easily find in books.
I can even _almost_ visualize a tesseract (hypercube). Now, let's
see.... from faulty memory, the platonic solids(sides) are
tetrahedron(4), hexahedron(6), cube(8), dodecahedron(12), and
icosahedron(20)? (I'm guessing about the last two.) I don't know what
the Archimedean solids are, but know that if seeing a picture, I'd be
able to see them without the picture.
You recall those spatial relations tests in school? The ones where they
show you an object, and ask which of four images is the same object
rotated? I do that without error; it's easy. Imaging complex (not TOO
complex) >2d objects is 'natural' to me, and I'm good at it. I am NOT
good at looking at math formulae and grasping them. They generally do
not create pictures in my mind. (Some do; I have little trouble
converting simple formulae like E=mc^2 or E=hv into "pictures," but
formulae that involve nonexistent or ludicrous concepts, used for
nothing but labelling (such as the square root of minus one), and which
cannot be converted into imagery without weeks of struggle, just escape
me altogether.
I trust my 'visualizer-conceptualizer,' and even when it yields a wrong
image, it's easy to correct. I do not trust what I can't visualize.
Hence, I can argue and maintain accuracy for the geometry/topology of
this 'Tetrahedraverse' thing of mine (correctly), and appear to be
egotistical and arrogant for doing so, while at the same time making
horrible mistakes with non-picturable, non-visualizable "mathematics."
A guy who hasn't much trouble understanding a tesseract, but who
couldn't describe one in formulaic math symbols if his life depended on
it, may appear a contradiction in terms, but I assure you there IS a
difference.
RC> If that comes naturally, then you might consider taking a shot at
RC> visualizing the six regular convex polytopes in four dimensions.
RC> Two of these are pretty easy for me, but the others not nearly so.
Any 3D solid is easily turned through the fourth dimension, creating a
sort of "worm" in spacetime, or creating a sort of multiple-copy
"shadow" (or inverting the shadow so that it is the 3D and the 4D is the
object casting it), but the more complex the object (the greater the
number of sides, edges, and vertices), the harder it is, of course.
I don't quite know what you mean by "polytope." I've only seen the word
once, recently, by accident, when visiting the /graphics/ subdirectory
of Washington U.'s mainframe in search of POV-Ray accessory programs.
One thing that helps _me_ with _math_, but probably would not help with
a "visual," is that (I recently discovered) "dimensions" higher than one
are done _mathematically_ merely by sticking on more coordinates. I
didn't understand how math types dealt with, say, 26 dimensions until
Conway's _Sphere Packings, Lattices and Groups_ revealed that they don't
even _try_ to "visualize" --they just 'run the numbers.' I can now
"describe" a 4- or 5- (or n-) dimensional object by listing the 4 (or 5,
or n) coordinates of its apexes (if it has 'em), but I still can't
_visualize_ higher than four. (There is a vague, shadowlike "feeling"
of the higher dimensions in me, but I would not call it either
"accurate" or trustworthy.)
Perhaps you could now give me some benefit of the doubt, understanding
that I _can_, and _am_, visualizing this object of mine with easy
clarity, but that I can't _describe_ it with "math." That is, trust my
visual, but continue to denigrate my attempts to _describe_ it.
I shot someone my short story of the 'Notylon' balls and the magician
recently. Tell me if you'd like to see it. I have no trouble
intuitively "_seeing_" two dimensionless points manufacturing a single
"dimension" between them, if they are absolutely forbidden coalescence.
I seem to be having _awful_ trouble getting anybody else to either
understand or agree. The best I've seen so far is another poster
suggesting I'm trying to resolve a paradox. I told 'im I wasn't tryin'
to _resolve_ one; I was tryin' to _USE_ one.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Mathematics
|Date: 05 Mar 97 10:36:53
EID:2820 22655480
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 ce2c17f7
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fc
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> with: Shelby Sherman
JB> "Zero" can be imagined quite a bit more easily than can "infinity."
RC> For you, this may be so. In my experience as a math tutor working
RC> with students ranging from preschool through high school and college,
RC> it is not true for the majority. Especially not with younger kids.
Perhaps. I only know my own abilities, not those of most others.
David Worrell attacked my statement that I've always been dumped on this
way, but it's just possible there's a reason: I can do a few things with
my brain most others can't, and most people do not react kindly to
evidence of that. Unfortunately, abstract and printed-symbol
_mathematics_ is NOT one of those things at which I excel or have
natural ability.
JB> In imaging, zero _stops_ thought,
RC> Kindly speak for yourself.
I do, albeit not always 'kindly.' (*g*)
But I clarify: _zero_ does not stop thought, for it is still a "thing."
That which zero is often used to represent ("none"), or more properly
that absolute which seems to underlie 'zero,' DOES stop thought.
I posit that _ANYONE_ who can do it, will arrive at exactly the same
conclusion: trying to reach "really really _nothing_" (words cannot be
used to describe this, that does not exist) with the mind, will STOP the
mind. I also have found that only if someone _does_ succeed in reaching
the step just before this final/absolute barrier to thought, will he
admit that what I have said about it is true. Sorry, that's just the
way it is. If one has not, at least by trying to imagine getting RID OF
absolutely everything, come up against the uttermost cancellation of all
things, he will not, or can not, agree that it IS an absolute stopper.
Reaching it, one feels "reflected" by the concept that taking another
mental step is totally impossible, not because one is deficient in one's
mental abilities, but rather because there's nowhere there to GO.
(The sensation is totally unique, I assure you. If it happens, you WILL
know it for exactly what it is.)
Put simply, it means subtracting everything, which leaves "nothing,"
and then trying to subtract "the nothing." (And, extending, if you do
that and find you have unwittingly created a secondary sort of "nothing"
to be left over, get rid of _that_ as well. Practice makes perfect, and
repeating this effort will sooner or later "stop you cold." You will
rtealize that there IS an absolute limit to thingness, that in no way
can be said to exist at the 'other end' --imagining 'infinity.'
Infiniteness cannot stop the mind's attempts to visualize. The fact
that you can always add another '1' to infinity is evidence of that.
But there is a final limit to imagination, when trying to get down to
"nothing."
I have called it "the self-cancellation of nothing" (written " [NoThing]
"), since it seems to me that one _cannot_ remove the very last 'thing'
(which in this case is 'nothing'). The effort fails; it's like hitting
a rubber barrier and being bounced back. The attempt to remove
whatever-it-is that one has finally, with great mental effort, managed
to call "nothing" results in a backing-up, a default back to
"something."
If one "mentally spins around" right AT that point, one can begin to
construct a possible metaphysics to underlie the Universe's
"somethingness" --its 'reality'-- by treating the end-product of the
effort to imagine _eliminating_ 'everything' as the starting-point of
an effort to _create_ everything.
It is "something from nothing," but it is not something FROM a nothing
which existed or could ever have existed. It is instead creating
"something" by means of "bouncing back" from a nothing so complete it
cannot even be described --it... uh.... ISN'T, and WASN'T, and CAN'T
HAVE ever "been."
(I go to greater descriptive lengths with this than I do with other
things. I know the concept is impossible to describe. I could go on
writing for days, weeks, months, and my reader will _never_ understand
it by reading. It has to be DONE. --With heavy commitment. It's
perhaps one of those extremely rare things about which one can really
say "when it happens, you'll know it has," without specifying exactly
_what_ "it" is. I'm sorry, but to accept the idea of a single point
being the _only_possible_ way to start a Universe, I believe one MUST
have "bounced back from [NoThing]" for oneself. Description will simply
not yield conviction. Intellectual understanding will not provide
conviction. Only DOING IT will provide conviction. Until personally
experienced, the concept I attempt to describe seems ludicrous and
silly, or trivial and intellectually unworthy of tre effort it takes.
Once having DONE what I attempt to describe, the sense that it must be
the only (the uttermost-absolute-minimal) way to "start" reality toward
unfolding itself is 'trivially obvious.')
JB> I'm _mathematically_ debunked, Sophist Daddy.
RC> You are mathematically disfunctional, John.
I resemble that remark....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "they"
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:11:07
EID:d923 22655960
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 fb1d13e1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 414d21fd
On 03 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> As for the phrasing you requested, that has been provided already.
I see the attempts, and will condense the several attempts, then present
my rewording for your consideration.
RC> I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and suppose that you
RC> had not yet received it before posting your above mysterious
RC> "they" claim. I refuse to accuse you of lying when mere ignorance
RC> can easily account for your misguided assertions.
I didn't. My reception seems to be about three days from your
transmission. Our conversations are multiplexed. (*grin*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Ergo Ego Eggo" : "Therefore, I waffle." --LB
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Confirm supplication
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:14:04
EID:e1d8 226559c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 b9e2cd86
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331afde5
On 03 Mar 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 01 Mar 97 07:22:49, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> ... +Origin: John Brawley's African Quantum Muti Emporium, SA
JB> Oh, for Pity's sake....
DC> Who's 'Pity' and why should I care about what he drinks?
Boy, _that_ was a stretch.... (*g*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Theology is probably a branch of Physics.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 05 Mar 97 11:14:38
EID:8a39 226559c0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 e42bac98
On 27 Feb 97, DAVID RICE wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to ROBERT CURRY:
JB> I been gettin' this sort of shit from people (at least
JB> some of which were less foolish than you) most of my
JB> _life_.
DR> I'm sure most crackpots feel the same way.
I suppose that they do. But there is a small percentage of crackpots
who, while they feel that way, turn out later to have been only
partially cracked. I don't claim (yet) that I'm one of those, but there
have been enough tidbits pop up lately, that the possibility has to be
considered.....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: You forgot to answer this
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:43:00
EID:b9d3 22668560
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Alan Hess:
>>KY> Nope..[sic] Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew,
>>KY> on the other hand, that would be another story..[sic]
>AH> A so-called Messianic Jew is a Christian, not a Jew.
KY> One can't be a Christian Jew?
A "Christian Jew" is like being a "negro White Supremacist."
... Someone needs to come up with the deity equivalent of a nicotine patch
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: James Makes Things Up
|Date: 06 Mar 97 16:56:00
EID:9b93 22668700
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Marilyb Burge <=-
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Jim Staal <=-
>>>MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
>>JS> Nope.
>MB> Gimme numbers. I want REAL numbers from the Department of
>MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
>MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a
JS> year involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
JS> Practitioners I guess that should do it.
Do you really expect people to take your word for it?! If so,
you're even more ignorant than Appletoon.
... "There is no God." -- The Bible
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Mar 97 00:17:52
EID:4678 22670220
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 331e3cfe
MSGID: 1:229/622 331f6017
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of David Worrell to Dave Hamilton:
JS>>> I think the recent revelations by Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the
JS>>> Coalition of Abortion Practitioners (his previous lie) makes any
JS>>> further arguement moot. 3000-4000 a year, healthy fetuses,
JS>>> healthy mothers.
DH>> Where can I verify this?
DW> [...] The latest effort to pass the legislation comes
DW> after an announcement by a leading pro-choice official, Ron
DW> Fitzsimmons of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, that he
DW> "lied through (his) teeth" during an appearance on the ABC network
DW> program "Nightline." Fitzsimmons says that he told a reporter from
DW> the show that the so-called "partial birth" abortion procedure was
DW> used only in the most extreme circumstances. But last week, in an
DW> interview with the American Medical Association News, Fitzsimmons
DW> that that the majority of the late-term abortions were performed on
DW> healthy fetuses and healthy mothers. "The abortion-rights folks know
DW> it, the anti-abortion folks now it, and so, probably, does everyone
DW> else." [...]
DW> I wonder just who it was that stuck Fitzsimmon's head up his ass?
We just had a case of a guy freed after 10 years in prison from
DNA evidence. He had been convicted based on the testimony of
a known, convicted, pathological liar who was in jail with him
and claimed to have heard a confession.
This bears a striking similarity. Was this guy lying before, or
is he lying now? Where is HIS data?
I still don't consider this verified for healthy mothers and fullterm
babies.
Hopefully, some facts will surface.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: alignment list.
|Date: 05 Mar 97 23:23:00
EID:5d2e 2265bae0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 331e46a4
KW>Please address additions to the list to me, under the subject
KW>"alignment list". I've started adding the people who
KW>haven't given me their own entry--so unless you want to risk
KW>my best guess of what you are, best let me know.
KW>If I've added you and you want it changed, just give me the
KW>corrected material--and I will quote it exactly as you give it .
It seems to be quite a complete list. However, my last name was
spelled wrong. It is "Wiens", not "Weins." It is a common
misspelling. Ok, I'll go back and hide under my bed now.
Thank You.
p.s. My alias is Jim Goodman...Don't tell Richard Smith,
though. I think he already knows. :) I like irritating
that boy. He is so easily irritable.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * For a reply, send a self-abused stomped Antelope to...
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: A "Swiftie".
|Date: 04 Mar 97 08:43:39
EID:117e 22644560
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 331d992c
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89712eb0
Hi Laurie...
On 28 Feb 97 09:29:24, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Dave Hamilton
re: A "Swiftie".
DH> About a message of Laurie Appleton to John Musselwhite:
LA> Clearly, as things stand, I can see you with a very
LA> large SHOVEL in the process of time!
DH> He must have one now if he's still reading your posts.
I do... The mucking of Laurie's byre is a filthy job, but
someone has to do it. B-})
LA> The shovels I referred to were COAL SHOVELS and they are
LA> presented to those who are were particularly consistent
LA> deceivers, given to distortions and misrepresentation, false
LA> accusations and LIARS. :-)
I assume this analogy comes from Dante rather than the Bible.
The fires of Gehenna were fed by the garbage of Jerusalem, not
coal. B-})
John
... She said, "Deeper, deeper!" so I quoted Nietzsche in her ear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: Accepting Reality
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:5722 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E07
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
SQ>> Watch how rational the fundies become when you start telling them
SQ>> that the Book of Mormon is factual. :)
JH> I have. And the Koran.
SQ> It's amazing to get a "real time" version of 1984, right there in
SQ> front of you, isn't it? :)
It's the most glaze you'll see outside of a donut shop.
JH> Since a friend of mine FINALLY found out a few weeks ago about my
JH> beliefs (or lack thereof),
SQ> This is why I don't confide this with too many friends. The worst is
SQ> when employers start talking about "The man upstairs this" or "The man
SQ> upstairs that." Hey, they're paying me to sit there and listen to
SQ> their blather, and that's fine, but I have to put on a show worthy of
SQ> Laurence Olivier to make it look like I'm interested.
The only ones who REALLY know are my friends. Only one was able to
guess outright. He refuses to argue with me, since he knows I can beat
him over the head with his own book. A couple of others have picked
up on it over the years. Some people I've known for years and they
STILL don't seem to know. However, I do know the people around the
school who will try to preach at me. The one who just found out seems
to have already figured out he ain't got a chance converting me.
However, he is hoping and praying for me. When he made that statement,
I asked if he REALLY was praying for me. He said (and I quote),
"No, but I think that's what we're supposed to say to people like
you."
JH> he's made an on-and-off attempt to convert me.
SQ>
SQ> My wife and I were apartment hunting here several years ago, and we
SQ> ran into someone who was a Mormon. One of the first questions she
SQ> asked me was "Y'all gonna convert?" I replied "Over my dead body."
SQ> Needless to say, we didn't rent from them.
SQ>
SQ> These days, I say "Convert into what?" :)
I used that EXACT same line once.
JH> was overmatched. He can't understand why I keep smiling and
JH> laughing when he's talking about Hell. :-> "What can I say, I'M
JH> EVIL!!"
SQ>
SQ> He might as well be telling you that you're going to Detroit for the
SQ> weekend if he's trying to scare you. :)
I've never been there. Should I be scared?
BTW, I preached to this guy the other day about the Word of Stargoat.
I think he thought it was a true religion. "What's this Stargoat
guy give you?" Of course, he's just as deadpan as I am, so he could
have got the joke. I think I've introduced some questions in his
mind.
... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: --whack!--
C:
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Re: David Ragland & god?????
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:87af 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E08
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
DR>>> You can continue to do so because of _real_ men like me, by the way.
SQ> He and Staal ought to form a barbershop quartet.
"Step up........"
"Step up......."
"Step up........"
Step up on that milkcrate
and say that to my face.
Then I'll grab this Bible
And hit you in the face.
I'll beat you blind with scripture
It's my only claim to fame
Because it's hard to make a living
when your fist's as big as your brain.
It's times like this I wonder whether or not I have anything better
to do.
SQ> Or maybe Jesse Jones will come back and these guys can have a penis
SQ> size contest.
While we throw cans of Vernor's at them.
SQ> It's the Ragland G.I. Joe with Kung Fu Grip.
He's cutting off the oxygen to his brain all by himself!
SQ> But is it anatomically correct?
I'm not checking.
... Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Re: Fundy Frolics 2/3
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:663a 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E09
-=> Quoting Norman Solomon to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
NS> Now that's frightning, it's like going back to "our" dark ages, but
NS> the KKK don't still exist do they?
Sure does. In fact, a "recruitment center" is opening right in my
state. Right above a place that wants to be a KKK museum and
memorabilia shop.
... If I ran the world, things would be a lot better. Well, for me anyway.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Re: Out of your own mouth.
|Date: 07 Mar 97 15:34:53
EID:8cbd 22677c40
MSGID: 1:3652/1 33209E0A
-=> Quoting ROBERT CURRY to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ <=-
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
RC>
RC> ROFL!
RC>
RC> Which one is Mothra?
It reminds me more of Gamera. They're both blowing stuff out of
their asses.
... "Only man has dignity; only man, therefore, can be funny." -- Twain
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: infinitesimals, Zoro
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:17:00
EID:ef1d 22675a20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Dan Ceppa <=-
>>RC> Zero. :-)
>DC> It's simply amazing how often that non-existant number seems
>DC> to always crop up, isn't it?
DH> Wasn't he a Mexican cowboy with a fencing foil?
ROTFL! He and his "gay blade."
... "And the idiot says in his mind that there is a god." - Styx 1:152
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub: Out of your own mouth
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:29:00
EID:37bd 22675ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to All <=-
LB> John and Laurie were killing time
At least John has a brain and doesn't lie for Jesus.
>>JB> May God forgive you and protect you from the wrath He
>>JB> vents on all liars, because you, at least, "lie for the
>>JB> Lord of Hosts" rather than for the Lord of the Flies.
>LA> Are you talking about the God of the Christian Bible or
>LA> about the god of your QUANTUM delusions? What "wrath"
>LA> does your 'phantom god' meter out John? In what revelation
>LA> does his words occur? Perhaps you have pronounced your
>LA> own judgement which you so richly deserve, with your
>LA> own mouth!
LB> I am *so* reminded of a Godzilla movie right now...
LAUGH!
"God wreaks Tokyo. Film at Eleven!"
... 28th Rule of Creationism: Shift the burden of proof to your critics.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KEN YOUNG
|Sub: 'Sacrifice'
|Date: 07 Mar 97 11:34:00
EID:6e13 22675c40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Quentin Fai <=-
>QF> It wasn't *that* much of a sacrifice. He's still
>QF> alive, after all.
KY> Uh, you try being crucified in that way, and see if
KY> you like it very much.
You are being, as usual, silly. Three or four hours of
crucifixion for a god is nothing. The vast majority of
people crucified by the Romans took many days to die.
The aledged crucificion of Jesus was no "sacrifice" at
all. Just a minor inconvenience.
It would have been a better "sacrifice" if Jesus had
been born blind and deaf, with AIDS and leukemia.
... "Sounds like a job for Cap't. Thorazine!" -- Marty Leipzig
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Darryl's Loverboy
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:44:00
EID:9a5f 22676580
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>>>DG> to point you towards a right relationship to
>>>DG> God[sic] & encourage you along the
>>>DR> Please tell your god I am not a homosexual and that
>>>DR> he will just have to look elsewhere for his
>>>DR> "relationships." Thank you.
>>DG> Shows again that you don't even have a clue as to what
>>DG> I'm talking about.
>DR> Wrong. It shows that YOU have no idea what YOU are
>DR> talking about. Keep your anal fantasies to yourself,
>DR> please. I do not want a "personal relationship" with
>DR> the supernatural boyfriend.
RS> ROFL!. I like you, David. You bend them over, and
RS> shove the enema pipe right up the Christonazis, before
RS> giving it to them and washing away the shit in their
RS> brains. It's fun to watch :) :) Wahoo! :)
[Blushing] Aw, shuck. twern't nothin'. I particularly like
the "anal fantasies" part--- it has been my observation
that Fundamentalist Christians often have a fixation with
butts for some reason.
>>DG> First of all, God[sic] deplores homosexuality
>DR> Then why did god make homosexuals? Sheeeish: are you
>DR> really this stupid?
He did not answer either of these two questions.
RS> Did you know the NIH is now recruiting gay men who
RS> have brothers to participate in a study of their
RS> brothers and genetic patterns, especially to compare
RS> a few genetic markers they suspect may cause homosexual
RS> sexual orientation.
My understanding of human sexuality, which is near zero (or
should I say Zoro, since John Brawley doesn't believe in
zero?), is that nothing "causes" homosexuality. Any study
of the above might sho a corolation, but not causation.
One problem I forsee with such a study is that sexuality
is a broad spectrum, not clearly demarcated. They will
first have to define what "homosexual" is.
RS> They are hoping that the research will show that a
RS> predominance of the gay men have the genes, and if
RS> their brothers are gay, that these genes and if their
RS> brothers are NOT gay, that the brothers do NOT have
RS> the genes -- thereby isolating a genetic combination
RS> that may prove to lead to homosexual sexual orientation
RS> or a propensity to be gay.
Yikes! If they are "hoping to find" a result, THEY SHOULD
NOT BE THE ONES PERFORMING THE STUDY!
>DR> "Institute who states "the discovery that a nucleus differs
>DR> in size between heterosexual and homosexual men
>DR> illustrates that sexual orientation in humans is amenable
>DR> to study at the biological level." (Parsons 1980:55)
RS> This is probably all going over the head of the fundy,
RS> as they "don't do science". It gets in the way of their
RS> belief system.
Science has doubled the human lifespan in the past 250
years. If fundamentalists don't like it, they can kill
themselves when they reach 40 years old.
>>DG> [a god] calling it a sin and an abomination at
>>DG> various places in the Bible.
>DR> Sorry, no. Ignorant, long-dead, savage Hebrews called
>DR> male homosexuality "an abomination." Female homosexuality
>DR> is okay since it isn't mentioned. Thank god for lesbians.
RS> Lesbians are also God's chosen ones. They have
RS> succumbed the least to HIV infection :) Speaking of
RS> which, God sent a very evil pestilence. At first,
RS> the ignorant hets thought it was sent to kill the
RS> fags, until they realised it was also to kill them
RS> even *moreso* for *their* hypocritical judgement
RS> and sexual mores. :) :) That's if you subscribe to
RS> their "God made HIV to kill gays" theory :)
More black people have died from AIDS than homosexuals. In
Africa the disease has eradicated entire populations. One
wonders why more Fundy Christians don't call AIDS a
"punishment from god" against choosing black skin.
... Laurie, maybe you don't realize it... but you are a moron. - J. Christ
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:50:00
EID:46e2 22676640
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>DR> Same way they butchered the "witches" during the
>DR> Inquisition: the Christian cult finds them guilty, and
>DR> they leave it up to the government to execute them. It
>DR> worked for The Holy Office; it will work for "Pat"
>DR> Robertson.
RS> You have seen what some of the religious conservatives
RS> have espoused for gays as a solution, and the parallels
RS> to Hitler's Jewish solution, don't you?
More or less. I admit to a dangerous apathy about personal
AIDS education--- I am at very low risk of aquiring AIDS.
I've read about the proposed AIDS victim concentration
camps; the proposed international database to keep track
of AIDS victims; the proposed criminal laws against AIDS
victims who do not advertise their afliction.
... "Fish to Gish" is one example of a complex-to-simple transition.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 07 Mar 97 12:58:00
EID:46c3 22676740
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-
>DR> I can produce, at a moments notice, several documented
>DR> cases of Christians who have reciently rape, murdered,
>DR> and tortured people. Hell, I've already done so and sent
>DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
>DR> accept the Truth.
RS> The most important cases have occurred in GEORGIA this
RS> month... The case of the Georgia exorcism I sent Brother
RS> Fredric, and the case this week of the gay nightclub
RS> bombing in Atlanta.
The "Army Of God" claimed responsibility for the bombings.
Their "field manual" circulates through Fundamentalist
Christian churches (of which The Freedom Writer's
publishers received a copy). History is filled with
Christian violence.
The "Oklahoma City bombing" was likely performed by McVeigh
and his ilk. McVeigh's "militia" is run by a Fundamentalist
Christian survivalist. The US Marine Corps created McVeigh,
and the "militia's" leader wound him up and set him loose
on sociey.
... It's a miracle that there's no evidence of miracles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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