God Damned Fundies!
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /028
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:06:48
EID:76d3 207110c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681754f
PID: FM 2.02
"Omnipresence precludes any "separation from the body of Christ". One
cannot escape omnipresence. Therefor, your god would also have to exist
within Satan." - SA
"My clue, is Christ is coming, soon. Where are you going to be, when he
comes to take the believers, in Heaven or hell." - Marguerite Kendall
"If I was a satanist, humanist, or an atheist, it would be no problem.
But because I stand for Christ, I get jumped on, name called, etc. There
have been posts, on satanism, and humanism. But nothing happens, to the
person who posts those messages. That person gets praise heaped upon
him. But when I posted something on christianisty, adverse reaction
happen." - MK
"Perhaps you would send some [newspaper articles] my way...yeah...I know
it's like the rest of your life...one big circus of lies." - Ron
Stringfellow
"One thing at a time. Answer the question, godling." - RS
"Peter, I know what pi r2 is and have since the beginning. . . and I am
sure that god took that into account." - RS
"Faith in yourself will not help when the problem is beyond your
control." - Steve Bedard
"This ain't the harmony echo, dipshit." - Robert Curry
"If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless." - RC
"Funny how the gods tend to share the Political views of those who speak
for them." - RC
"Creation 'Science' is to science what Rap 'Music' is to music: a lot of
noise and utterly incoherent." - David Rice
"It is like arguing with a lump of shit. The longer one argues with
shit, the sillier one appears, and the shit ain't listening." - DR
"In response to entreaties from around the world, the leadership of Iran
has announced that it will deal with Salman Rushdie in a more Christian
fashion. But they have to find a place for the stake where it won't set
an oil well on fire." - DR (It's a JOKE, bozo)
"Any god who was elected a god by majority vote, like Jesus, must have a
severe identity crisis." - DR
"Speed kills. Wrapping your automobile around a concrete bridge pylon
probably voids the warrantee." - DR
"I think Ms. [Linda "UN at Waco"] Thompson has some valid points.
Honestly." - DR
"You're one complete pile of shit, and a bigoted one, too. Even your god
damnable bible says "created man in his own image". And you have the
audacity to say that an innocent child does not have the right to be
saved by your god damned god?" - Dan Ceppa
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /029
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:06:49
EID:b612 207110c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817550
PID: FM 2.02
"Your English teachers only use a 23-letter alphabet? I've heard of
cutbacks in education, but that's rediculous!" - DC
"I predict that you will take a breath of fresh air and actually take
another. Hey!!! Why the fuck are you turning blue on me???? Well, one
less fundy to woryy about......" - DC
"Mankind didn't progress as far as it has by saying, "God said that men
can't fly" but by breaking those laws and flying. What is going on
around us now is an attempt to do just the same thing that the Romans
used xianity for: To keep people ignorant, ignorant as to who they
really are and are far they can go." - DC
"You're incapable of any rational response, so why start now?" - DC
"Please don't apologize. It makes me want to taunt you a second time."
-
Shelby Sherman
"We treat fundies and apologists with appropriat counseling in this forum
- Up the side of the head with the lug wrench of truth." - SS
"By-the-way, Mary is still a slut and your precious Jesus is long dead
and rotted in the grave. I've profaned your Savior, now what do you
intend to do about it?" - SS
"Damn, I asked for evidence and all I got was this lousy Josh McDowell
T-shirt." - SS
"Tell me, why does God need to prove himself? He is based on belief.
You are to believe, not to question! God performs miracles every day."
-
Steve Lew
"Let's face it, matters of spirituality have to do with the spirit, not
the intellect." - Carl Schulz
"This echo is abomination. This echo is also filled with those who will
one day bend their knee to Jesus Christ and call him Lord, whether they
like it or not! And to think how much fun I'm gonna have fun watching
you say it." - Martin Riley
"The fact that a Jewish hasid lived in the 1st century CE in the country
of either Galilee or Judaea, was very charismatic, a little brilliant
and a little looney is not in question." - Simon Ewins
"If God is "infinite and eternal and the Creator of all" then God must be
the creator of evil. Since God created evil, the concept of evil must
have, at least, passed through his mind and, further, since "whatever is
good is good because it is consistent with his mind" the reverse must
also be true. That is, "whatever is evil is evil because it is consistent
with his mind". This makes God directly responsible for all of the evil
that exists since it was "created from his mind". This requires that evil
itself must be "consistent with his mind". So, is the mind of god
predominantly good or evil? The amount of evil in the world (according to
Christian theology) far outweighs the amount of good. This would indicate
that God created more evil than he did good. This would indicate that the
"mind" of God is predominantly evil. Why would one wish to worship a God
who's "mind" is mostly evil? More interesting, however, is your
anthropomorphizing of god. You assign God a "mind". How do you know that
God has a "mind"?" - SE
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02A
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:07:50
EID:9412 207110e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817551
PID: FM 2.02
"Is this the depth of your naivete, or do we have more to look forward
to?" - SE
"Jesus made claims that have been proven to be wrong... Mark 9:1,
Matthew 16:28, Matthew 23:36, Luke 9:27, Matthew 24:21- 34, Matthew
10:23... all claiming foreknowledge of his return, all wrong. Gee,
maybe he's dead." - SE
"Lies are hard to keep straight in an era without sophisticated
communications, it would seem." - SE
"Are you looking to win the award for most stupid question? Setting
aside for a moment that rocks are hard what would be the result of one
dropping on your head? You can't 'set aside' an essential element of
_anything_ and expect to find an answer that bears any relationship to
reality." - SE
"To accept as truth what the gospels (which were written after Paul's
letters and were designed to support his ideas) say about Jesus, is to
accept as truth what Goebbels says about Hitler. To accept as truth what
Paul says about himself as supported by what the author of Acts says
about Paul, is to accept what Hitler says about himself as supported by
what Goebbels says about Hitler as truth." - SE
"Christianity has nothing to be proud of. Any good that it may have done
has been completely offset by the perpetuation of racial and religious
hatred that it has fostered and encouraged." - SE
"Paul only quotes Jesus twice. Why would that be if he is basing his
entire theology on the life and work and resurrection of Jesus?" - SE
"God told me the Book of Mormon was true." - Conrad Knudson
"Needless to say, the LDC's birth-rates are just rediculous... I'm for
compulsary sterilization, muh-self." - Jeff Freeman
"I missed being god by one vote!" - Odin
"Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning." - Jesse Jones
"What you call a refusal to answer was a refusal to respond" - JJ
"When we believe that our individual will is the superior force in the
cosmos we deny the harmony which creation itself seeks. Jesus's struggle
in Gesthemane shows us that there is a will to be served beyond our own
self-interests. . ." - JJ
"BUT... if I told you that 1+1=1, as idiotic as it seems, until I am
proven wrong, I am right." - Zach Webb
"My my, I have the false Christian scum (and their infidel, reprobate
brethren), the Sodomites and the general filth of FidoNet all ganging up
on me." - Steve Winter
"Aids cures queers." - SW
"I wish I was their to light the ovens." - William Stone
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02B
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:07:51
EID:9552 207110e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817552
PID: FM 2.02
"Do you imagine that sexuality began with mammals? Cockroaches are male
and female, as you would notice if you paid any attention to your
congregation." - Don Martin
"Sorry to leave you out, but I do not number asshole dipshits among my
friends. Now, since you have made this assertion about this particular
loon, please be so good as to show that his handle is indeed a "warrior
name", that it was given to this jerk by somebody else, and the ways in
which we may be sure that he did not apply the name to himself, as part
of
his masturbatory fantasies. I shall probably live; whether shall I learn
anything from your idiot speculations about third parties remains
dependent upon your ability to provide some evidence for your assertion."
- DM
"I have here a promissory note signed by you pledging to pay me $493,278
by November 30, 1995, or to incur further indebtedness to me at the rate
of 10%, compounded daily and payable upon demand. And here it is,
December 9, and I haven't seen a farthing.
Prove to me that this promissory note does not exist or pay me my money
by
certified check. Now.
Either that, or learn about the fallacy of shifting the burden of proof.
[...]
Actually, I would rather prefer that you learned nothing about the fallacy
(and my confidence is buoyed considerably by your repeated demonstrations
that you take a back seat to no one in the matter of learning nothing) and
just sent me the money." - DM
"You know, I work very hard at my insults, striving for the greatest
amount of put-down in the fewest words, hopefully with some memorable
imagery. One of my favorites, for instance, was to a fundy picketing a
film: "When I want something like your opinion, I'll give my dog an
enema." It is succinct, I think, and properly disgusting, while presenting
a process that ends in the satirist's all-time favorite material, shit."
- DM
"Have you any notion how very boring your constant mantra of "C.S. Lewis,
Charles Williams, Dorothy Sayers, J.R.R. Tolkien, G.K. Chesterton" gets
to be after a while? Nobody denies that there have been and continue to
be brilliant people who believe in religions. Their impact, however, on
our daily lives is a great deal less than the folks with 12-guage
shotguns who may appear at any moment to "justly punish" a baby killer
(and anyone standing in the vicinity) for Christ, the Jim Bakkers who
suck the money from the poor, the Pat Robertsons who seek to change the
laws and other believing riff-raff who otherwise share precious little
with the likes of C.S. Lewis, Charles Williams, Dorothy Sayers, J.R.R.
Tolkien, G.K. Chesterton, et al." - DM
"And they're the ones who keep saying to us "why are you so ANGRY?" At
least I am not so angry that I have to deny rights to other people out of
hand." - DM
"Fundies can only be secure in their faith when everybody agrees with
their idiotic notions; therefore they feel impelled to convert whom they
can and shoot the rest in the back." - DM
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02C
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:08:52
EID:5593 20711100
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817553
PID: FM 2.02
"It isn't all that bad: they are only required to love their neighbor "as
themselves". Given the degree of self-loathing we see demonstrated by
christians around here (if it were not for the existence of god, I would
be committing murder, arson and rape on a daily basis), they probably
already love their neighbors as they do themselves without working up a
sweat. That love, however, may leave something to be desired." - DM
"Who ignores the likes of Paul Hill, a committed Christian "trying to
make a difference"? Who ignores the various "Family" groups in Colorado
and Oregon, busy trying to drum homosexuals out of the human race? They
are certainly "trying to make a difference."Who ignores the Christians in
Kentucky who check `naughty' books out of the library and do not return
them? Who can deny that they are "trying to make a difference." Who
ignores the friendly folks in Virginia, overwhelmingly Christians, who
seek to place an admitted felon and perjurer, Oliver North, in the U.S.
Senate where he can work his magic on all of us? Are they not "trying to
make a difference." Who ignores the "stealth" candidates in California,
who work at getting elected to school boards by concealing their
Christian agenda by evasion, silence or outright lying, so that they can
impose that agenda on the young from a position of power. They, too, are
"trying to make a difference." I only wish we COULD ignore the Christians
"trying to make a difference," but we dare not turn our backs on the vile
bastards." - DM
"Maggie's echo bombs of religious tracts probably violates the copyright
of some fundy without giving such credit, but piss on him--it's only a
fundy, after all." - DM
"It has long been my impression that most of you buzzards would not
bother to be christians if you did not suppose that heaven was composed
of bleacher seats facing hell." - DM
"But in India, something else is going on. Females are not valued. Only
males are. Wanna bet that when those boys end up competing for the only
unmarried girl in town that HER value won't soar? And theirs, at least
so far as the gene pool is concerned, will drop. Such gender-specific
abortion is an excellent way to reduce the overall population, but it
doesn't really begin to operate until the next generation." - DM
"I do not expect, of course, that my ridicule will make fundies
think--they appear to be pretty well proof against that horror--but it
may have that effect on the real audience around here, the silent lurkers
who have not yet given their minds over to the Swaggarts, Robertsons and
Falwells." - DM
"Certainly, and than am I: however, he specified "fundemental Christian",
which DOES rather drain the pool of available intellect." -DM
"Well for all of you who criticize Mr. Robertson, I can say this. Judge
yourself before judging others. You might make fun of us fundies now,
but we are mobilizing spiritually, politically, and to what worries you
the most financially. We Christians are sick and tired of being accused
of wrongdoing and ridiculed. Lets face it, there are more of us than
you. And we intend to take back the Government that Christians founded.
And cut off your grants that supply some of you with the money to wage
war on us. Organizations like the Christian Coalition scare you and
thats good cause We are going to put you and the evolutionist garbage
you try to push on us on the run." - Joe Savelli [And you didn't believe
him -CH]
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02D
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:08:53
EID:97d2 20711100
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817554
PID: FM 2.02
"Okay. I'll retract the story about the man who was arrested for praying
in the Florida restaurant. But only because you and others are hung up
on it. This should clear the way for what I really want to prove. That
is the Historicity of Jesus. So, Robert, you have my retraction for what
it's worth. (Not that it's a lie.)" - JS
"Oh well with homosexuals pounding on church doors and screaming to the
occupants "we want your children, we want your children". It just proves
my point that homosexuality is evil. Not to mention that it spreads
disease...." - JS
"Christian Coalitions membership in 1992 300,000. In 1993 900,000 and
still growing. We are going to invade all political and educational
institutions, take them back from the liberal/socialist invaders." -JS
"Libralism and humanism IS evil. Both are destined to fail" -JS
"I see now why Jesus said the Jews' father is the devil. Beware! The
Jew is the antichrist." - Keith Baxter / Larry Rollins / Gerald Norris /
Jack Roberts / Frank Waring
"If 'Jesus' does come to Earth- is it the first coming (as per Jewish
tradition), second (Xian), or third (Mormon)? I wonder- and I hope he
lands feet first on ALL televangelists. (Preying on fear sickens me!!!)"
- Rachael Roth
"Take that piece of paranoid drivel and, print it out, soak it in
gasoline, then shove it up your ass and light it. Have a nice day,
motherfucker." - C. J. Henshaw
"What you call senseless blathering is actually a very fun past time for
those of us who like shoving lit fireworks up fundies' assholes." -
Coridon Henshaw
"Matt, do you suppose incest is why we have fundamentalists?" - Liz
Saunders
"We already have the necessary proof - the Scriptures. God has already
told us what happened. Why do we need further proof?" - Derek Williams
"What scares the shit out of me is that here in southern Tennessee (and
probably many other areas) the psychological clinics are LINKING
religious beliefs and psychological well-being. That's kind of like
giving someone AIDS to cure sexual dysfunction." - Tim Bennett
"EH> [...] Btw, change your initials. they make you look canadian." -
Martin Goldberg
"Texas is much better than the State of the Perpetually Dead Elvis.
Jesus, the smell is atrocious. Did something die up there?" - MG
"The Theory of Gravity does not address these either. Am I to believe
that my computer will soon head for the ceiling?" - MG
"i read this. It is full of nice stories, emotional bullshit, and a host
of other devices that might fool a very stupid person. It is not,
however, evidence." - MG
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02E
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:09:54
EID:5713 20711120
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817555
PID: FM 2.02
"See you in Hell.... (I won't be there, but I'll be able to see YOU
there.)" - Doug Brewer
"Welfare is cancelled, all women come home (except single women who
obviously must support themselves somehow.) What happens? 1) A
tremendous amount of tax money is freed up. 2) Men fill the now vacant
positions, thus reducing or possibly eliminating unemployment. 3)
Children have one parent home all the time; thus they are raised by their
parents instead of daycare. I think the advantages of this are obvious.
In contrast, look at what we have instead...." - DB
"You do not understand the essence of Satan, or of Satanism. You do not
have to worship Satan to be a Satanist. Satanists believe that everyone
is their own God. You need only worship yourself, and you are practicing
Satanism." -DB
"First of all, innocence is subjective. Who is truly innocent? Just a
question... Second, anyone who ever died at God's hand (in the Bible)
died for a reason. Third, Christians view death as a beginning, not an
end. So, to die (say in a city that was destroyed by God's judgement)
wouldn't pose that big a problem for me. There isn't that much worth
hanging around here for, anyway." -DB
"Modern technology is merely evidence that h. sapiens sapiens is not all
irrevocably stupid and that progress is made in spite of our most earnest
efforts to forestall it at times." - Preston Simpson
"Perhaps if you actually bothered to read literature rather than burn it,
you would have seen them." - PS
"I hear the president is naming you Secretary of the Inferior." - PS
"Go try Stevie Winter's Wholly Bible echo. I'm sure you'd get a kick out
of it." - PS
"Christian [Miller], you are the LAST person who needs to be giving me
advice on how I should go about living with myself. You are a disgrace
to
your god, your religion, your species, your family, and yourself. I find
you to be a repugnant and worthless human being--and I write all of this
with not a single trace of anger." - PS
"So, you dislike anyone with differing political beliefs? Not surprising;
you did admit that you were conservative, after all." - PS
"Dear God: you're making a horrible mess of things. Please abdicate and
allow the election of a worthy successor." - PS
"There's no convincing a mind that is not only closed but has been
bricked over and had steel plate welded in place over it." - PS
"Your god seems to fear questioning, and the authority figures in your
religion discourage questioning far more than they encourage it. Such is
a definite sign of an oppressive and dangerous organization." - PS
"If you take two lions and two sheep aboard the ark, it's a cinch bet
that the lions will probably eat the sheep or some other herbivore upon
release." - PS
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /02F
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:09:55
EID:5653 20711120
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817556
PID: FM 2.02
"You've basically said to the world "I don't understand why some things
happen, so God must have done it!" That's silly. If you don't know why
something happened, try to find out. If you can't, leave it at that and
go on with your life." -PS
"I think you're full of shit. I wasn't in it for gain. I was in it
because I believed. I was in it because I had faith. And when my faith
was shaken to its foundation, nobody came to help, nobody answered my
prayers, nothing. Your God, if he exists, is the most callous deity to
ever be worshipped, bar none. And his followers exemplify this
beautifully." - PS
"We've explained it to you at least three times, in clear English. You
claimed a degree in English; I suggest that you return to the institution
that granted it and demand a refund, because it's for damned sure that
you didn't learn anything there." - PS
"How about people who just don't care? Bipolar thinking is ridiculous
when applied in this fashion to humanity, since life is not always a
clear-cut case of "us" against "them." Such thinking breeds paranoia,
distrust, animosity, and all sorts of unharmonious things. What would
your god think of that?" - PS
"`In God we trust' - David Koresh" - Sunjester
[OBSOLETE]
"Put THAT in your Bible and smoke it." - Stephen Green
"I find it strangely pleasing to know my thoughts and actions cause you
so much grief." - SG
"Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest." -
Jimmy Swaggart
"Describe, if you will, what kind of phony God you would come up with if
you were to create a phony God and start your own religion. Ask yourself
what kind of traits you'd *have* to give it. Visible or invisible? etc.
Then, compare the result to the popular Christian God." - Mike Prather
"The problem is that some folks are so open minded that their brains fall
out. Then some really bizaare ideas get stuffed into the opening, at
which time they slam and bolt the barn door after the horse has run off,
and never let anything else in or out. Then they come to Holysmoke and
start posting stuff about universal minds thinking with pilot waves and
dead presidents rising and orgasmic saviors and denying sunlight and
quoting winos like Hoyle and Schroeder." - "Hector Plasmic"
"He just reinterprets whatever's at hand to fit what he wants it to say,
carefully discarding any bits that get in the way as "parables" and then
reinterpreting them, too. Finally, ignore any more logical explanations
and conflicting facts, and -- voila -- instant fundy, just add flood
water and bake in hell to taste." - HP
"It's laughable, really. The fundies claim "gods exist!" When you ask
them if they have any evidence that gods exist, they eventually get
around to saying "no, but you can _sense_ that gods exist." When you ask
them for evidence for that statement, you usually get "I just know it."
And when you ask them how it is they "just know" you usually get "you can
_sense_ that gods exist."" - HP
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /030
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:10:56
EID:20d3 20711140
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817557
PID: FM 2.02
"I'm sorry, Mikey, did you run across some evidence that xtianity is
true? Would you mind sharing it with us? Or are you just full of shit
as usual?" - HP
"Time: Here and now. Surviving members of David Koresh's Branch
Davidians report seeing David the Koresh, Lamb of God, alive and
preaching. They're widely regarded as nuts. The Enquirer and similar
yellow tabloids pick up the tale and begin printing stories about people
seeing the Koresh hither and yon performing miracles. The stories are
widely regarded as garbage -- except for a few ignorant souls who also
believe Elvis and JFK are still running around. A few years pass, the
stories of Koresh sightings still crop up from time to time. Henry
Kissinger has died, and John Prewett committed suicide rather than admit
he was a false prophet. The Branch Davidians stick to their story,
saying that the Koresh has ascended to heaven to be with God. They pick
up followers. The church grows slowly but steadily. People still think
they're nuts, but a few eyebrows are being raised. The fundamentalist
xtian televangelists begin screaming about false prophets and followers
of the devil when they mention the Koreshians. A few more years pass.
Most of the Branch Davidians have died of old age. Their followers,
still growing, set down the tales they've been told about the Koresh's
sacrificial death to atone for the sins of mankind and subsequent
resurrection and ascension to heaven and begin calling themselves
Koreshians. A prominent televangelist who'd been preaching against the
Koreshians is in an automobile accident; when he recovers, he claims to
have seen the Koresh and been converted (saved). He tours the country
preaching at Koreshian churches, howls his message over the airwaves.
Membership in the Church of Koresh jumps sharply as many people leave the
fundamentalist churches to become Koreshians. A few more years pass.
The televangelist, now an old man, is assassinated. Membership again
jumps sharply, spurred by his martyrdom. The stories set down years
before are assembled and appended to the King James bible (oddly, written
using "thee" and "thou"s). The stories contain contradictions and
obvious fallacies, but they're accepted as dogma by the Koreshians, who
interpret over them and/or call them "proof of the truth of the
writings." Approximately two thousand years pass -- it's 1995 AK (After
Koresh). The Koreshian religion is held, at least superficially, by
1/3rd of the world's 10 billion population (there'd be a lot more people,
but the Koreshians exterminated a lot of heretics and unbelievers over a
thousand years before during the Second Dark Age). Mikey Hardy's
descendant says, in a room full of atheists, "And we have evidence that
David Koresh rose from the dead." Most everyone present considers him a
nut, and farts in his general direction. Mikey's descendant screams 'IS
NOT!'" - HP
"Moreover, according to the fundies here, we're guilty until "saved." So,
to extend Kenny's "breaking the law" analogy, it'd need to be a law
against breathing, or some other activity that humans can't help doing.
In fact, I offer this analogy which seems much to the point: A king
declared that anyone breathing air not bought from the king's air
bottling plant would be thrown into the dungeon and tortured forever.
The king offered simple terms -- all you had to do to pay for your
bottles of air was fall to your knees, grovel a bit, and thank the king
for giving you air (the king had previously allowed the president of the
air bottling plant to rape and kill his daughter the princess to pay the
price for everyone's air, but actually she wore a full-body condom and
faked her death so she suffered very little if at all). Now, an atheist
might say that the king was full of shit and was damning his people by
the thousands for no reason at all, but a theist might say that the
people were damning themselves by refusing to partake in the king's
almost-freely-given gift of a bottle of air." - HP
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /031
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:10:57
EID:e012 20711140
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817558
PID: FM 2.02
"We don't hate you, little fundy. We feel sorry for you." -HP
"Occam's Razor cut your foot off again." -HP
"Now go shoot yourself. For Christ or not, it doesn't matter. Don't
forget to repent first." -HP
"What an assinine, baseless assertion. Just because Mikey has no
evidence, you must be intentionally refusing to believe him." -HP
"Are you allergic to the truth or something, Mikey?" -HP
"Fundy motto: no sense makes sense." -HP
"Yep. I agree. All bibles should be put under rocks. Big rocks. In
the ocean. On another planet." - Brian C. Kolacy
"Women do have a place in God's kingdom...BELOW that of men." - Jeff
Pruett
"Back to the talking snakes and Adam & Eve again, eh Jeff? The entire
story is pure mythology as you well know but won't admit. It has no more
validity than the myths about Zeus, Hercules or Mithras." - John
Musslewhite
"So why don't you guys kill yourselves and get the hell outta our hair?"
- David Worrell
"What is with the fundy fascination with that [Forest Gump] movie? Do
they identify with the main character?" - DW
"*Anybody* [Bosnian Serbs] that makes a habit of shelling civilian
population centers at random is *not* interested in peace. The only way
to make them stop is to wipe them from the face of the Earth." - DW
"At the very least, we should sell (or "loan") the Bosnians
[Muslims/Croats] good counter-battery radar and some MLRSes. Everytime
the Serbs fired anything bigger than a rocket-launched grenade, their
position would be enveloped by thousands of bomblets. After a while,
they'd loose their fascination with artillery." - DW
"I'm beginning to think Mormon churches have brain vacuums install in the
pews. The congregation comes in, sits down, and tubes are inserted up
their asses. Any unnecessary brain matter is then sucked out while they
listen rapturously to the sermon." - DW
"So you feel that it is our *duty* to bash gays in order to prevent
`experimentation'? You disgust me. Maybe we should beat the hell out of
Christians in order to prevent people from experimenting with
Christianity?" - DW
"I'm prejudiced against bigots, fascists, tyrants, and idiots. It just
so happens that many Christians fall into one or more of these
categories." - DW
"I am all too willing to believe that you're just as stupid as you come
across on this echo." - DW
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /032
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:11:58
EID:e152 20711160
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817559
PID: FM 2.02
"Do you take groveling lessons or does it come naturally to you?" - DW
"Atheism is MORALLY BANKRUPT because, as Sartre and Nietzsche have
demonstrated, without God as the universal reference point to distinguish
good from evil, there are no moral absolutes. Man becomes the measure of
all things, including his own ethics and morality." - Roger Griffith
"I agree with you there legislating faith is like trying to legislate
agains racism it sounds nice but it just don't work..." - Robert Rice
"God is Powerful...NO other so-called "GOD" could stand one chance
against My Powerful God....Bite me All you LOw-Life Non-Christians!!" -
Jason Bridges
"What I'm doing is typing truth. It is simple to ridicule and ask for
evidence of something someone does not believe, I could take the same
tact. You cannot prove any theory, that's why they are known as
theories. What you offer is not debate. Look the word up in the
dictionary. I am here to say JESUS SAVES." - David Lewellyn
"I do not hate anyone. I recognize homosexuality for what it is. It is
an illness and depravity. At one time this was recognized as truth but
as homosexuals were thrust into the public eye by the AIDS epidemic and
the popular figures who came out of the closet, and the liberal climate
created by the press, homosexuality was labeled an "alternative life
style". It is "popularly believed" that a flight attendant from Canada
introduced AIDS into the U.S. According to researchers he had sex with
several dozen men. Other cases of AIDS did not show up until later among
the non homosexual populace." -DL
"No gay person could ever reproduce unless he were straight in some way."
- Ralph "The sky is blue!" Jansen
"Why can evolution be FACT when there is absolutely NOTHING backing it
up? ... (Because this is science and in science there is no such thing as
a fact.)" - RJ
"If there is, then by definition evolution is most highly improbable
since the each species is *supposed* to die off after it evolves." -RJ
"As for 6000 years, there is quite a bit of evidence that supports that
idea. So, maybe he really isn't that stupid. Maybe he knows something
you don't." -RJ
"Some group has said that they actually discovered the ark, and that NASA
has gotten behind them on this 100%... Don't you dare quote me on
that..." -RJ
"I made a report to the class on Creation Vs. Evolution . . . You know
who won . . . Creation . . . evlution is too complicated!!!" - Russ
Offord [elipses in original]
"The magnetic field. Solid hydrogen is a superconductor, and Earth's
magnetic field continues to wane -- back then it would have been many,
many times stronger. And so on." - Leon Brooks
"You have no sense of humor. Typical atheist faire. Learn to live with it
(your dark dismal world, that is, humorless, Godless, hellbound schnook)"
- John Prewett
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /033
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:11:59
EID:2193 20711160
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755a
PID: FM 2.02
"May Jesus continue to let you live. Long enough to get your head out of
your ass." -JP
"This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ. There
are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that are going to
be transformed into rabid Christers. - JP
"I predict / prophecy in Jesus name that: John F. Kennedy will publicly
reappear, amaze the world, take world power, and is in fact the "beast"
of the Revelation." - JP
"Some HolySmokers are putting God on trial. Therefore God exist." - JP
"`god' _does_ exist. Because the rules of physics always stay the same."
- Matt Unterberg
"I'm easily amused, just give me a gun and a field full of
fundamentalists" - Unknown
"(sorry about that - this is my blatant attempt to get a quote in the
HOLYSMOKE.FAQ) " - Mike Perry
"Actually, it is, Kelsey. Theistic evolution is not the same as
atheistic-materialistic evolution. Yet, for some reason, you choose to
use theistic evolution as a rebuttal to my statement that "natural
atheistic-materialistic macro-evolution is dependant on life starting via
a naturalistic-atheistic-materialistic mechanism for biochemical
evolution." I'll explain the difference to you. Atheistic-materialistic
evolution is characterized by the belief that there is no Creator G-d,
that all that we observe in the universe is the result of the laws of
nature acting on matter and energy, plus random and/or chance encounters
of matter/energy, over a period of approximately 11-14 Billion years. In
order for Atheistic-materialistic evolution to be true, each stage of the
evolution of the universe (From the origin of the Big Bang, to the origin
of particles, to the origin of stars and planets, to the origin of life
from non-life, to the origin of the species) must have developed via the
laws of nature acting on matter and energy, plus opportune random
encounters of matter/energy, over a period of approximately 11-14 Billion
years. If any any one of these stages we can demonstrate that just one of
these steps could not have occurred in this manner, then we have
disproved Atheistic-materialistic evolution. The Atheist world view falls
apart." - Arthur Biele
"Well, I'm 23, though I've had people mistake me for 30. It's my aura of
wisdom and maturity, not my receding hairline. Really it is." - Aaron
Boyden
"No. However, there is life before death. It probably deserves more of
your attention than you've been giving it." -AB
"And you say I'm in a "death cult"?? "Mass starvation"?? Point "*.666"?
You can't use "666", your an atheist, you don't believe in those things,
remember?? Remember, the Bible isn't true, therefore the Anti-christ and
his number 666 is a myth and doesn't exist? For someone who doesn't
believe the Bible, you sure model yourself and your symbols after what's
in it, even if it's the "bad guys". Of course the "bad guys" don't exist
if the Bible isn't true." - Phillip Windell
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /034
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:12:00
EID:e3d2 20711180
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755b
PID: FM 2.02
"You see, without God, a person can become good, or noteworthy, or
famous, or do good things such as heal the sick, teach the ignorant,
protect the young, and all for the simplest reasons or no reason at all
other than the personal happiness derived from such actions. However, if
there _is_ a God, then there is no reason to become a doctor, as God
either wants that person sick or God would cure him. There is no reason
to teach the ignorant, as with a snap of the fingers, God could impart
any degree of knowledge or wisdom to that person and since that hasn't
happened, God must want that person ignorant. If God does exist, there
is absolutely no reason whatsoever to do anything for anyone. Anything
you could do to help someone is meaningless as God could help them so
much better if He wanted them to be helped. Anything you could do to
better yourself becomes pointless as God could have done it for you if He
wanted you to be a better person. Indeed, if God did exist, one could
only do one of two things: either totally ignore God and any of His
actions, or become a totally mindless slave to God's word. Either way,
the result is the same: complete meaninglessness to anything and
everything one does." - Kelsey Bjarnason
"Show me exactly which Israelis were brought to Israel by God, as opposed
to the local airlines. Next." - KB
"You seem to be very hot on what the Bible says; I find it hard to
believe that anyone who cannot write a simple sentence correctly is
actually capable of ascertaining the deeper meanings of anything more
complex than a matchbook cover." - KB
"One might look at how the Christians fare in here. Do you have any idea
how often we have one come in and the first thing they do is start
whining about the language in here? How would you like it if someone
went to your house and told you how to speak there? Of course, the next
step for the average Christian here is to start posting all the "great
truths" which "prove God"; again, without having bothered to read enough
mail to realize that _every_ argument they propose has been done to death
already. No, they insist upon believing that in all of human history,
they and they alone have the final proof of God. As often as not, the
next stage is when they start defining terms to suit themseleves.
"Atheism" means "anti-God". "Evolution" involves the Big Bang. And of
course, they almost invariably end up resorting to such silliness as
telling us that we "hate God" because we fear "it might be true" or that
"deep in our hearts we know God is real". The point here is this: the
Christians are treated with the respect they earn. For most, this means
treating them like a spoiled and slightly retarded six-year-old. For the
odd few, it means calm and rational discussion. It is _entirely_ up to
the Christian how he is treated in HolySmoke." - KB
"You go out of your way to insist that atheism is a religion, which can
be for no purpose but to inflict your personal mindset on those who are
not so afflicted." - KB
"If you believe it, you don't know it. If you know it, you don't need
to believe it. Since you obviously haven't a clue one way or the other,
why should anyone listen to what you say?" - KB
"As another opined, isn't it odd that miracles no longer happen now that
we have the technology to record them?" - KB
"Okay, fine. But how much of it is "God's truth", and how much is mere
fairy tale or absolute bulltwaddle? Was there really a global flood?
No? Then is the Bible is lying to us, or is God? Oh, there was a global
flood? Then the lack of supporting evidence means that God is lying to
us, by intentionally destroying or hiding that evidence, right? Hello?"
- KB
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /035
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:12:01
EID:2313 20711180
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755c
PID: FM 2.02
"They are Christians of Borg, they have been assimilated. They will
speak no opinions of their own, only those approved by the Christian Borg
Collective. To think for oneself is to risk eternal punishment." - Thomas
Mccullock
"No shit, Sherlock. But that isn't the case, and there are plenty (too
many) heterosexual breeders in this world that are keeping this planet
(over)populated. What does it matter if a small percentage of the world's
population isn't reproducing? Goat knows we don't need any more people
breeding like rabbits in this world..." - Drew Webber
"Remember the man arrested in the Florida restaurant? He was praying that
his noodles would stop multiplying, but a Satan-powered JFK flew out of
the stratosphere on a bear that couldn't catch fish and arrested him.
MISTER Kissinger stood on a milk crate of flaming foetuses and tried to
prove it with every opening bud, but the solid hydrogen mentioned in Luke
16:31 destroyed his hard disk fourteen days later and erased the Culinary
History of Aviation. He goes on trial December 1." - Jason Rosendale
"First off I am not religious, I am a Christian. Second I did not give up
on it, I refused to take part in a mock trail of God." - Kenneth Mcabee
"What your missing David, is the most bible believing Christains do not
question God. Why does he require blood for the forgiveness of sin? What
does it matter? It does, the bible says it, we believe it." - KM
"You still haven'g gotten have you? Someone who believes in the Bible
also believes that you do not need evidence, but rather faith." - KM
"First if the Christians were doing thier job right noone would die never
hearing the "Good News". If they did not hearing then by my bible I have
to say that they are condemned. And that we the Christians did not do as
we were commanded." - KM
"you a answer on your question simply due to the fact that I am not God,
and do not have the capability to punish my kids for eternity. I cannot
give you an answer, I do not know what I would do if I could punish them
for eternity." - KM
"Just because I am willing to debate Christianity does not mean that I am
here to learn any truth contrary to my beliefs." - KM
"Let me put it this way, even if I agreed with your statement that God is
an unrepentant barbarian, he is still God. I still have the choice to
make, either I believe in him and go to heaven, or I don't and go to
hell. With those two choice, I don't care if God is the most hateful
thing ever created, I still would not want to go to hell, and I would
still believe in him." - KM
"I will not play D&D anymore because of the dieties and demigods. I do
however keep the game around because from time to time I need information
out of them to prove a point. I will play doom and other games like that
because to me I'm just killing bytes on the computer, and that is really
not killing. Nor does it make me want to kill, I see it as it was made,
a
contest to be one or lost. Besides, what could be bad about blowing away
demons?" - KM
"God will be coming soon. He will tryumph over any gods that other people
have made. Like the god of money...etc. In the end you will be judged by
him. He will make you accountable for every thing you did." - Alex Sousa
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /036
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:13:02
EID:2253 207111a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755d
PID: FM 2.02
"You can't blame them. They can't think. They are a result of a
mechanistic organization of matter. They don't have thoughts any more
than a computer has thoughts. Their "thoughts" are nothing but
mechanistic processes. Hmmm, they probably don't even have conciseness."
- Andrew Cummins, refering to non-Christians.
"Creationists do not deny any directly observed phenomena." - AC
"Hitler believed in big government. Hitler didn't believe that human
life had inherent value, thus he supported such things as abortion.
Considering many factors, Hitler seems a lot like a modern American
liberal." - AC
"Don't be a liberal dupe. Even most heterosexuals with AIDS 'earned'
it... but it's still is a fag disease." - AC[ellipse in original]
"Then maybe the poor should either avoid being poor or avoid behaving in
a way that makes them feel a need to avoid responsibility with something
they can't afford." - AC
"She prayed and asked (*demanded* - she's a tough lady) for the life of
this little one back. After 15 minutes or so a crowd was gathered (you
can picture it) and she saw some police out of the corner of her eye
starting to approach. But the people pressed around her so, that the
police couldn't get through. After a half hour or more of continuing to
pray the baby gave a sneeze and came back to life." - Peter Sawyer
"That's a lot better than denying the Truth just because you're afraid of
it. The more I read from you and the others like you in this echo, the
more I know my faith is true. Thanks." - Tony Grisier
"Didn't you know that *we* are Satan?" - Gord Magill
"I know this is only second hand, but our local TV news did a two or
three part series on parents killing their own children. The incident in
Union was not as isolated as we would like to think and it may be a good
working hypothosis. I don't remember the statistics that they gave, but
the point was that the rate has been on a marked increase, beginning in
the mid 70s. Guess when Roe v. Wade came down. The news didn't provide
the corellation, history did. Now, I realize that its easy to lie with
statistics. Even when you have a corellation, that doesn't prove a
hypthosis, it merely supports it. If I can find the numbers I'll post
them soy we don't have to go on just my remembrance of the local news."
-
David Hatfield
"I have never accepted the Ideal personally that gays have any rights and
i never will." - Don Ward
"What percenatge of Muslems worship Islam?" - DW
"Well the hemophiliacs, are mostly drug abusers who will sell their body
or blood for their addiction, or while hyped up they share needles to
get-off. What would you expect from a drug addict?" - DW
"Heres my judgment ,you are a desolate little old man who's afraid to
leave your little xt/pc. I get on this "echo" because of all the fools
on it, but you live on this "echo"." - DW
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /037
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:13:03
EID:e292 207111a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755e
PID: FM 2.02
"I think your under a lot of "STRESS". Maybe you need an _assistant
moderator_, one that would make this _echo_ appeal to all types of
people. Therefore I'll make a "kind" gesture of you letting me run this
bias _echo_ for a month or so. So I can help you achieve a respectable
"echo", for the good of all." - DW
"Adults do not allow others to speak their own minds in any fashon they
want, Ive not seen that anywhere. Adults do let Children ( somewhat)
learn the language but it has appeared to me thru many of your post that
you do have a good sense of language so I can only presume that you are
very much an adult." - John Reynolds
"... "How talk you, yes. That, do we. Idiot, fucking, you are.": Yoda"
- Tagline
"Considering the Christian views on abortion and assisted suicide, my
guess is that once you accept this "gift" of eternal life, you can never
give it back. Seems like you might be making a mistake that could
literally haunt you forever by accepting Jesus Christ as your personal
lord and saviour, especially since Christians seem to think that just
anything that is fun to do is a sin." - "Captain Fuck"/Dan Baldwin/"Dr.
James Robertson"
"Why feel the need to declare yourself a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a
Pagan, Wiccan, Stargoatian, or what have you? What is wrong with just
being yourself? One thing I do not belive is that any cosmic deity is
going to send me to eternal suffering because I don't believe certain
things. I just can't imagine anything intelligent enough to create life,
if that is in fact the way it happened, having such primitive feelings
about it. Besides, suffering is a relative thing. Stick my hand in a fire
for one minute and I may scream in agony, but leave it in there for a
hundred years and see if I give a shit, never mind a million years or
infinity." -CF/DB/DJR
"`Aboard ship take thou the SEED of life' I am refering to the SEED of
all life of any species. Only one thing did NOAH need to take two of, on
the ARK, of EVERY living creature that walked upon the EARTH, and would
easily be able to do so with the technology of the -GODS-. Also buy
taking the SEED of life of every living creature he could get two of each
on that small ARK. The SEED of life being refered to is, GENES. The GENES
of a male and female of every creature would have accomplished the task
nicely, would it not? With this you no longer have an argument of not
enough room to house two of every creature, food to feed them for more
than 6 months, etc...." - Barry "Suspended Animation" Laminack
"He will not be there for you. If you have not accepted his lordship
over your life, then you are at war with him and he is at war with you.
That is not to say that he is not willing to forgive, but to stand in the
place of God's judgement is a fearful place to be. What is right and
wrong? Where does the idea come from? If you go by feelings, your
feelings change from day to day. Do your morals change from day to day?
Without God there is no right and wrong. There must be a reference point
outside of yourself upon which to base your value judgements. What is
your reference point? Without one you are incapable of determining for
yourself what is right and what is wrong." - Unknown fundi
Any evidence I have would be meaningless, because your point of view
would prevent the obvious conclusion. I cannot *prove* to you the
existence of God just as you cannot prove to me the non-existence of God.
God has proven himself to me through the power he has shown in changing
my life. Only the power of God can change a man's life and set him free
from the burden of sin. Not that any Christian will ever be sinless, but
the assurance of knowing the the penalty for your sin has been erased
changes your life completely. I cannot prove to you the existence of
God, but if you accept what he says about himself and about you in his
Word the Bible, then everything makes complete sense." - Timothy Hartley
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /038
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:13:04
EID:e6d2 207111a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681755f
PID: FM 2.02
"A recent court case acquitted Donald Napora of endangering the lives of
the public by knowingly having unprotected anal intercourse (otherwise
known as sodomy), while knowing he was HIV positive. Sodomy, once a crime
against the state, is now not only tolerated and accepted, but actually
promoted in many of our public school sex education programs, in spite of
the fact that it is the leading cause of infection of the AIDS virus. For
a society that is as safety conscious as any in the world, this is a
gross contradiction. Does this bother you?" - Alan Kern
"Christians envying Pagans and wiccans? There's nothing to envy. Your god
was defeated by the blood of Jesus 2000 years ago, and he's only living
on borrowed time. You're following a loser, the biggest one in history of
the universe." - AK
"Science/archeology have often, and still do change their conclusions as
they continue to find new evidence." - AK
"Is AIDS a plague sent by God to judge homosexuals? "Likewise also the
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one
another, men with men committing what is shameful, and recieving in
themselves the penalty of their error which was due"Rom.1:27 You don't
have to be a brain surgeon to figure these things out. Why is it only the
Christians who can discern the signs of the times? Because they have the
mind of Christ, and unbelievers have only their own." - AK-47
"And, BTW, if you'll read that bible you're always thumping, you'll find
that Jesus was a liberal. He hung around with poor people and social
outcasts, he helped the poor, he said that it's easier for a camel to go
through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven.
But then again, you have your head so far up your ass that you don't
notice these things." - Quentin Fai
"I detect the pot calling the fridge black. If there's anyone who's been
soundly disemboweled, it's you. You seem to be too stupid to notice,
though." - QF
"When Jesus comes again, and I believe it will be soon, there will be no
need for Democrats, Republicans or political representatives whatsoever.
Not only this, but the Constitution/Civil Rights Amendments and othersuch
will be out of place as well. For we who are his children will live
under the rule of a true Theocracy. We will be his people, and he will be
our God. And those who have chosen to reject God/Christ won't be around
anymore to pester those who ARE God's chosen people (and I do not speak
here of the Jewish nation)." - Tenna Draper
"Loose your fuckin' quote box or I'll rip yer head off with my
pitchfork." - Satan
"No one on this earth is starving to death EXCEPT by choice and
Lazyness." - Titus Ashbury
"Why does the earth always take 24 hours to get around the sun? Who
controls this?" - Gary Hull
"There is a Bibical principle that basically says that a Father who loves
his children will discipline that Child. I personally have not had to
spank my children very often. However this world if full of children and
now adults that have not been disciplined. We see the results, they do
not know how to live at peace with one another. They have no direction
and purpose in their lives... In short the lack of discipline is a root
problem many other social ills" - GH
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /039
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:14:05
EID:2613 207111c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817560
PID: FM 2.02
"All are Slaves to God.. some know it, some dont." - Pratap Derrick
"...I do think that Christians are functionally illiterate or amoral.
Why? Because if you read your own damn holy book, and were a decent
person, you would reject it out of hand. Therefore, Christians (1) never
read the Bible, (2) can't understand what they read, or (3) are
indecent." - John McHenry
"The thoughtless are rarely wordless." - Tagline
Darwin of Borg: "Creationism is irrelevant. Evolution is inevitable.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated." - honge@creighton.edu
"Yes, even babies are born with aids. The innocent suffer all over the
world along with the guilty. If you knew the Bible you would know why."
-
David Lewellyn
"You christians are without a doubt the stupidest and, more
importantly, the PETTYEST people on the face of the earth." - Unknown
(From Usenet)
"I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem to particularly
lack respect for men and thereby depart from God even further than do
pagan men." - Jim Staal
"While the lazy and the slow (for the most part) seem comfortable with
literalism, the more intelligent theists are constantly performing mental
gymnastics to maintain credibility for their beloved myths. They've
formed an uneasy alliance between the space age and the stone age." - Rob
Burcham
"Do you now know why we don't eat pork. Its what distinguishes us from
people like you. The flesh contains microbes that invades your brain
cells and couses such twisting of the mind as one can see from the
language used above. This is how the mind reacts to such desieses. Some
people get infected and some don't. I think David Rice and Sean
McCullough are effected with the desiese too." - Shabeir Khan
_\/_
. / \ .
|\| (o)(o) |/|
-------.OOOo--oo--oOOO.-------
| New World Order ID |
| ID #666 |
| 666 N Babylonian Dr |
----------------Oooo.---------
.oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
- paul@terrabit.mn.org
"now, I wash my hands of you since I have no further need nor desire to
read the lying babblings of a twisted little fuckhead." - Karl Schneider
"This seems to be a funny debate for a Religous Conference. Do y'all
need prayin' for? Perhaps you need a demon cast out? Hmm?" - Clayton
Davis
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03A
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:14:06
EID:0413 207111c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817561
PID: FM 2.02
"Jesus was taken down from the cross and rose from the grave on the third
day. His Spirit entered earth on the day of Pentacost. That Spirit
lives in me. Jesus and I have the same identity, hence the name
CHRISTAIN. You may use whatever words you wish. Saying them detracts
not one whit from the truth. And whenever we say it about you,
namecalling is your response. I am what God says I am. Your believing
he exists does not bother me. But it gives you great grief. Your worst
fear is that my faith is in things that are the truth. Do not run from
Jesus. Run to Him. He is the one who cares. I could not care less
about you." - CD
"As for why you would fear homosexuals, here are some common reasons. 1.
One is afraid of the prospect of enduring a sexual overture of a nature
one finds repellent. 2. One is afraid that homosexuality is a plot to
destroy all decency and "family values". 3. One is afraid that ones
offspring might choose to go that way if given the option. 4. One is
afraid that oneself might choose to go that way if given the option. 5.
One is afraid that giant flaming meteors might descend on one's head
because of the behavior of one's neighbours. 6. One is afraid that
everyone might choose to abandon reproduction, leading to the extinction
of the human race. 7. One is afraid that people won't be willing choose
one's virgin daughters over oneself when they feel like gang-raping
somebody."- David Johnston
"Sudden prayers make God jump." - Ivan Schaffel's origin line
"For the last time: Omnipotence does not include the ability to do th[e]
logically impossible." - Michael Hardly
"I personally would prefer to see the human race go via nuclear war than
by the takeover of homosexuality... then I wouldn't have to be witness to
this erosion of our society that is now occuring." - George Pope
"Famous last words of Jesus Christ: Father, beam me up." - Erik Harris
"Skylab Died For Your Sins." - Paul Feonic
"If ONE; yes One of the Non-believers has the faith of a mustard seed.
He would wipe out their hunger!" - Jerry "cocksucker" Wilcox
"Pat Robertson is no more a profit than I am." - J"C"W
"So you are saying that EVERY human being that believes in the Bible are
not thinkers? I think not!" - J"C"W
"I tried thinking before, and I almost fell into the same mess YOU are
now in." - Joanna Amren
"Dinosaur bones, Noah's ark - it WAS found, and there is a big cover-up
concerning it... What other proof do you need?" - JA
"How about the masses killed by the godless following the logical
conclusions of atheism?" - Glen Davis
"Clearly, anything that "demonstrably disagrees with reality" cannot be
from God, and therefore should be discarded." - Rick Mcfarlane
"You're too stupid to be a creationist." - Dave Horn
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03B
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:15:07
EID:0553 207111e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817562
PID: FM 2.02
"In Jesus Christ name I bind all evil sprits off of this echo NOW." -
Steve Wallis
"The stars are God's Angels," - SW
"In Christ's name I can drink any deadly thing and it wont hurt me(it's
about faith and trust)" - SW
"Oh you! You followers of sin! Satan has you all under his control and
the only salvation is through Jesus Christ! Do YOU want to burn and
suffer in hell? Do you want to be fried to a crisp for eternity?
Are you scared yet? Good, because THAT is what's going to happen to you
if you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart and believe in the
King James authorised version of the Bible!" - "Phill Mcrevis"
"I would like to say that it is good that Jesus died for our sins and I
am
so glad he did!" - PM
"You're doing it to yourself and don't even realize it. Not only are you
an asshole, you are an idiot. And idiotic assholes are a dime a dozen on
this planet. You are hardly special, and your attempts at "intelligence"
and "wit" are painful to anyone who is actually capable of such things.
I
suggest you grow up. Your attitude and statements here in the echo show
that while you may be phsyically an adult, psychologically, you are a
three year old." - Jack Butler to Fredric Rice
"Pay attention, you cretinous idiot: you asked for an example, and as
my primary example of asshole atheists, I present Frederic Rice in all his
glory. Evidence? Certainly. The last six months of mail traffic from
you is all the evidence I need, and thanks very much for providing so
much of it." - JB to FR
"You're a druid, and think trees are alive?" - Christian Miller
"That would be due to your own ignorance and bigotry, and would certainly
not be their fault. OTOH, if I thought it would make you barf, slip, and
fall off a ninety foot cliff, I'd kiss John Prewitt right on the lips and
retrieve his tonsils with my tongue." - David Hilling to Christian Miller
"He's not dead, but He died for you!" - Les Wilcox
"noah was a real person in world history!, well God Sad the world was so
bad & Sinful he wanted to start over.. well anyway he told his people
that he would nevar do this agen.. Well this is not a hoax.. my prof is
the bible" - Kris OKelly
"Since most of the working force today is comprised of children from the
50s and 60s which are of the "brain-dead" generation which followed
authority, how do you explain the success in this country?" - Maria
Russell
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03C
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:15:08
EID:c592 207111e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817563
PID: FM 2.02
ÍMulti-quotesÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Please show me ONE instance of a scientist especially one that
specializes in the mechanisms of evolution that claims that evolution
states that man descended from monkies." - Martin Goldberg
"Maybe Creationists are descended from the same branch that
produced monkeys rather than the one that produced the apes.
After all, they do have a tale!" - John Musslewhite
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Actuallym my twit filter is becoming quite a collection on my BBS :).
Pretty soon, it will be narrowed down to just the Christian's in here and
no others will get through." - Unknown
"Self-explanatory. This is who will run your world unless you are
vigilant. These are the people that must never have a moment's peace,
bcause the world will never have peace as long as even ONE of these human
maggots remain extant on this earth.
People wonder why folks like Fred, Martry, Sean and I (among several
others) feel the need for bilious invective. That which you read at the
top of this post is what evil is, in case Jesse still needs his definition
supplied." - Robert Jackson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"She doesn't behave like a homosexual male. She behave like a WOMAN. The
homosexual male behaves like a woman; not the other way around. Besides,
she's anotomically correct for acting like a woman." - Christian Miller
"So a=b but b<>a? You're so fucking stupid you don't even realize you're
stupid." - Karl Schneider
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"If matter doesn't exist, what kills you at the bottom?" - Unknown
"If it is not matter, then most likely it is mind" - Lee Woofenden
"ROFL! Lee, what's your brain made of? Matter, perhaps? :-)" - "Hector
Plasmic"
"I see that Lee's at it again...." - Dan Ceppa
"And before you start telling us the mind doesn't come from the brain,
would you care to remove your brain _before_ telling us? Should be no
problem if your mind is _not_ your brain, after all. Just another little
test that you, too, can perform in your own home town." - HP
"That must be Hector's Experiment, part II, for those that are stupid
enough to perform part one and perhaps actually survive the first
experiment." - DC
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03D
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:16:09
EID:07d3 20711200
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817564
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Also consider all the diseases that go along with it from HepB to
Aids...I know there are diseases that Heterosexuals have as well but
incidences are higher with Homosexual. REF: Center for Disease Control"
-
Richard Morris
"Bullshit. I suggest you call the CDC and get some up to date
information. The percent rate of new AIDS infections is higher in
heterosexuals than it is in homosexuals." - David Worrell
"duh! so what's your point? My conclusion still stands. Incidences are
'still' higher in homosexuals then heterosexuals. I'm not speaking of
just new cases." - RM
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Did you forget that the world is round and that I am both east and west
of you at this very moment?" - Ryan Shaw
"No I didn't - did you forget that the end of straight lines never meet?
Sort of a small rule of geometry.... For a further examination" - Glen
Buckley
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I have faith. That's all I need." - Christian Miller
"If faith was all you needed for anything, then you could live in
Antarctica sans clothing or food. Do so." - Preston Simpson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"But Hitler did NOT decide to be a Christian. He was a Roman Catholic
Jew. One cannot be a Christian and a Roman Catholic. You have just
eliminated faith. Hitler made the wrong decision. (Several in fact)."
-
Anthony Grigor-Scott
"Remember, it's spelled "Anthony Grigor-Scott". There's a
hyphen between the last two names; the space, as you may know,
is between his ears." - Robert Jackson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"You gotta be a troll." - Kevin D. Mckenzie
"What do you mean? A troll is a very ugly monster that lives under
bridges and tolls people to cross. I don't think I am a troll. You
probably said that because you don't have Jesus in your heart. That's
okay because I can understand that then. Jesus saves. And you can be
next." - Phill Mcrevis
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"God sends no one to Hell." - Christian Miller
"I refuse to go to hell. What's going to happen to me?" - David Worrell
"What do I care? How will you stop God the Father from sending you there?
I can see it now: A little five year old brat not wanting to go to school,
fighting his 6ft Dad. Yeah, you'll stop God." - CM
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03E
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:16:10
EID:c712 20711200
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817565
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"You fucking moron." - Michael "Mikey Hardly" Hardy
"Sugar coating scrape off on the wrong side of the bed this morning,
Mikey? :-)" - "Hector Plasmic"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Then, while you're at it, ask him how many non-theists have given him any
flak over his homosexuality." - Unknown
"One. (Matt Giwer)" - Scot Bear
"Were it not for me you would not be justified." - Unknown
"Right----or left margin?" - Scot Bear
"Right. Far right...very marginal. " - Robert Jackson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Damn - what bore does one use when hunting gods? I've seen .700 elephant
guns, so I can only assume that a god gun must be something on the order
of a 16 inch deck gun." - David Worrell
"Naww, use a pellet gun. Gives the god a sporting chance, though still
not much of one..." - Dan Ceppa (elipses in original)
"Since we've never actually *seen* a God, we must extrapolate the
characteristics of these gods from the evidence available to us. The
Christians tell us that they want to be like God, but that God is much
more powerful than they can ever hope to be. Christians are boneheads.
Thus, gods must have an *incredibly* thick skull, necessitating the
powerful ordnance referred to above." - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"* SLMR 2.1a * If my life doesn't show Jesus,I'm not really alive!" -
George Pope
"While not usually one to dwell on taglines, I feel it necessary to point
out that if you do indeed follow the precepts set forth in this one, then
I conclude you are not really alive.
Since you are deemed to be dead, I formally request that you stop posting;
we have enough wasted bandwidth from live posters." - Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I do think for myself,[...]" - Kenneth Mcabee
"That explains your 8,000 repetitions of your favorite Bible quote. You
are using a defective organ. Try someone else's for a while - I'd
suggest one from a species of a higher order, such as a slime mold." -
Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /03F
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:17:11
EID:c652 20711220
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817566
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Get thee behind me Satan." - Jerry Wilcox
"Bend over." - Satan
"Get thee behind me Satan." - JW
"Getting just a little bit anxious, aren't we?" - Satan
"Not at all. Remember, I have Jesus on my side and I fear nothing." - JW
"One sidesaddle and one behind! The man is a walking clusterfuck!" - Don
Martin
"Wow! What Jesus should do is get in FRONT ... then they can make a
little train - Jesus, then Jerry, then Satan, all linked. Perhaps they
could add in their god and the archangel Michael, too, one at either
end." - Sue Armstrong
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"How many times must you be told. If someone was resurected they cannot
be dead anymore. Therefore there will not be any evidence of their
existance. They would be alive!" - Jerry Wilcox
"Are you alive, Jerry? If you are, there would, by your logic, be no
evidence of your existence. 'Bye, now." - Don Martin
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I want to know why that murdering SOB that you worship starves innocents
to death." - Martin Goldberg
"Because these so called innocents do not believe in God, or, know about
God in any way." - Jerry Wilcox
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Why? Because you're just basically stupid. You're faith" - Bill 'banned'
Wolff
"I'm faith? No, I'm Kelsey, and he's David. You said something about
being stupid?" - Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"WHERE IS THE BODY,HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?" - Mike Rooney
"By the looks of this line above, sounds like you're eating it." -
Robert Jackson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I take it you've never heard of having your penis pierced, then?" -
David Worrell
"Hell! I was three blocks away and I heard it." - J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /040
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:17:12
EID:10d1 20711220
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817567
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Atheists choose to be atheists." - Jesse Jones
"I seem to have no choice in the matter -- lacking evidence, I find it
impossible to believe in gods existing outside the imagination, just as
I
find it impossible to believe that Mickey Mouse can emerge from the TV
and do me bodily harm." - "Hector Plasmic"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"No he is not dead! Jesus died for us on Calvery!" - Jerry Willcox
"Jesus being the Son of God died not God. However being that God and the
Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the same, you might say God did die
but because he is omnipotent he lived while he died!" - Jerry Wilcox, in
the same message
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"To the eight who insulted me today. Bow, wow! Snarl! Pant! Pant!" -
Clayton Davis
"Were you humping a table leg while you typed that?" - J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I've *never* seen a camel at a salad bar." - David Roosterman
"Count yourself among the lucky. They've got terrible table manners.
(Lousy conversationalists, too.)" - J.J. Hitt
"So, J.j., what's the difference between them and fundys?" - Dan Ceppa
"If you ask a camel a question it doesn't understand, it will at least
say something original like "ahrrrrooooghunnn" or "yhaaaarrwwwaaarrrrkh"
(which very well mean something in Arabic). Our modemvangelists will
reply with John 3:16." - JJH
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Would you kill your son if God commanded it?" - David Worrell
"Yes I would believe with Abraham, who was over 100 and only had one son
and was told by God that his descendants would be as numerous as the
sands of the sea shore, That God would raise Him up or use the situation
for His honor and Glory." - Gary Hull
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"In a Religion conference, you all think homosexual propaganda is about
to shock us who are replicas of Jesus, our Lord?" - Clayton Davis
"`Replicas of Jesus`?! You think highly of yourself, don't you?" - David
Johnston
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /041
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:18:13
EID:d010 20711240
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817568
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Well, I guess we have a fundamentally different outlook...it strikes me
that a belief in ANY kind of "god", some powerful, "magic", creator
being, is more reasonable than matter spontaneously coming into existence
out of nothing..." - Mickey Haist Sr.
"Nope; they're absolutely identical, as long as you're limiting them to
origins.
"Where did matter come from?"
"Oh, it just went *poof*"
"Yeah, right."
"Okay, where do you say it came from?"
"God did it."
"Oh, and where did God come from?"
"Ummm... he just... um... went *poof*."
"Uh huh."
(The other alternative is to simply insist, with no logical basis, that
God "jest is". Fine. Apply the same to the universe. Guess what?
Identical claims. In any case, the result is the same: since we can at
least tell the universe exists, adding deities doesn't amount to diddly.)
Now, as soon as you add in the extra attributes of God, it moves from
being equally ludicrous to far more so." - Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Parable of the New Soap. Once upon a time in a far-away land far, far
away, a young man named Joshua announced the discovery of a marvelous new
kind of soap. People were skeptical at first, but they soon found that
this new soap made everyone very happy because it got them so clean.
Because it was so powerful, it got rid of dirt and stains that had been
around for years. In our parable, Joshua's soap is the Gospel of Jesus
Christ." - Marguerite G. Kendall
"It can't be; they're not comparable. In the one case, there is a
demonstrable positive effect of using the product [soap] - one gets clean
and happy. In the other case, [Jesus] there is a demonstrable *negative*
*effect - one's brain goes to mush, and if seriously infected, one has a
tendency to try to control society or kill people." - Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Democracy is impossible in the presence of even ONE Jesus worshipper!"
-
Sean McCullough [athist]
"What the HELL is the matter with you? Your starting to become jus tlike
the christians are! Judgeing everybody else.Dammit you've really pissed
me off.It's okay to take shots at their religion, but it's another thing
to make character assesments and pass judgements on MILLIONS of people
you've never met. [...] I'm disgusted with you." - Luke Clark [Pagan]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /042
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:18:14
EID:d150 20711240
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817569
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"PRAISE GOD!! If he wasn't dead I would not be SAVED!" - Jerry Wilcox
"Then, why bother worshipping a dead guy?" - Quentin Fai
"Because God is not dead!" - Jerry Wilcox
"Please make up your mind. Is your god dead or isn't it?" - David Rice
"Perhaps he didn't beat it enough the first time?" - Dan Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I say that for all the kids that he allowed to die in Kansas City. If
he was any king of a god, he wouldn't have allowed that to happen, would
he." - Dan Ceppa
"If this country (particularly the powers that be) acknowledged Him as
God, things like this wouldn't happen. Joshua 24:15" - Jim Staal
"This country????? Every single person???? If your gawd makes that a
condition to disallow wholesale murdering of children, FUCK HIM." - Karl
Schneider
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"A. The purpose of gun control is to keep weapons out of the hands of
dangerous maniacs. B. Currently, the most dangerous maniacs kill for
religious reasons. Thus-Religious people should not be allowed to own
weapons. Or buy fertilizer." - "Jon" (From Usenet)
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Spanking does not harm a child!" - Jerry Wilcox
"Jerry you are correct. Prov 10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth
instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth. Prov 15:5 A fool
despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is
prudent. Prov 15:31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth
among the wise. Prov 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than
an hundred stripes into a fool. 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by
inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for
correction, for instruction in righteousness: Prov 29:15 The rod and
reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to
shame. This one is last, it is also the best start for a person who
feels spanking is wrong. Last resort, I agree. Out of place, better
read again. But I have found that those that critisize the Bible are
those that have never read one." - Robert Benson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"If I had to describe my way in a few words, I would say "luciferanian"."
- Thomas Vogt
"I'd have to say you're a teeny-bopper without a clue trying to
masquerade as a rebel without a cause in search of a religion to play
with." - "Hector Plasmic"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /043
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:18:15
EID:1191 20711240
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756a
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Or if the Honourable Speaker were to actually use that mace .. :)" - Sue
Armstrong
"Trouble is, those 'Reform'ers are probably packing 9mm handguns loaded
with unjacketed ammunition." - Coridon Henshaw
"But are they smart enough to figure out which end to point at the
target?" - Jason Nishiyama
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Not at all. Creationism has never been wrong." - Unknown
"Why don't you just hang a sign around your neck that says `STUPID'?" -
Styx Allum
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"How does it feel to be a Coward for Christ?" - David Worrell
"If I was a coward, why would I be in this echo?" - Kenneth Mcabee
"Your presence in this echo is not a matter of cowardice or courage - it
has more to do with your lack of intelligence." - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Good news: it's "KILL JIM STAAL FOR JESUS" Week here at HolySmoke!" -
David Rice
"I understand one can blow his brains out and he wouldn't mind. Or even
notice." - Don Martin
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"What is firmament?" - J.J Hitt
"FUCK OFF YOU INCONSIDERATE PIECE OF SHIT...YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENT WILL
COME FOR YOU!!!!!!" - Steven Ricketts
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Seeing God's will done on earth as it is in heaven is more important
than my own happiness." - Jesse "Lock me up quick!" Jones
"Many of your fellow xtians have thought that through the centuries. Many
thought it was more important than anyone else's happiness, too. In fact,
many of them thought it was more important that someone else's life, and
therefore happily killed folks to see to it that "God's will" got done.
Nice to see you're carrying on in such a glorious tradition." - "Hector
Plasmic"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Ahhhh, I recognize this. This is the way my ex would talk before he
beat me for being "too smart"." - Gwen Todd
"Sounds like he was the smart one. Wha'd you follow that act with? I
don't know. I wasn't there. There ain't a story that donesn't hve two
sides to it. Either way, the fact that he is her ex, makes him the smart
one..." - Jim Staal
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /044
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:19:16
EID:d3d0 20711260
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756b
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Times change, Jim. It's all fine and well to be faithful now, but do you
know exactly why you are faithful? Do you know why God lets innocent
children be blown to bits by madmen? Do you not question why an allegedly
omnibenevolent god would permit such evil to exist?" - Preston Simpson
"Perhaps to help Janet Reno have some sleepless nights to demonstrate to
her the evilness of her decision of two years ago? That is not my answer,
but it is my thought on the OK city retribution act." - Jim Staal
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"God Dan" - Dan "Gnome" Ceppa
"The Lord rebuke you." - Jim Staal
"AIIIIIEEEE! Now he's REBUKEING us! Oh Woe! Oh Doom! Oh.... fuck you
too." - J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I want him [god] do undo the mess in OKC. Bet he is unable." - Martin
Goldberg
"Quite able, but not willing." - Michael Hardy
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"WE AS CHRISTIANS HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THE BASIC TRUTH OF CHRIST AND
HAVE DEVELOPED OUR OWN THINKING." - Unknown
"Great Scott! Some people are thinking for themselves. Where could such
heretical behavior lead!" - Unknown
"Dancing!" - Unknown
(From Usenet)
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"BZZT! You claimed to HAVE the information. Did the dog eat it?" - Karl
Schneider
"Trent [Hall] stole it and put it in his shoebox. Yeah, then he gave it
to Billy [Wolff] who lost it in his pile of creationist pamphlets. Sure,
then Mikey [Hardey] found it and reinterpreted it into "evidence" but
refuses to show it to anyone. Yeah, that's the ticket." - Hector Plasmic
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"But the Holy Spirit is a person....in the Godhead." - Unknown
"Is the "Godhead" where gods go to the bathroom?" - J.J. Hitt
"Quick, Jesus -- to the Godcave!" - Hector Plasmic
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /045
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:19:17
EID:1311 20711260
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756c
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Benevolence is a straw man, and these asteroids of yours are totally
theoretical." - Jesse Hornbacher
"Really? You really have lived a sheltered life, haven't you? Maybe you
ought to take a trip to Arizona (that's in the Southwestern U.S. in case
you don't know) and jump into Meteor Crater and bump your "theoretical
head". Ever look at the moon? Wonder where those craters came from? Or
do you think the moon really is made out of cheese? Swiss at that?" -
Carl Wilson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Sorry, I must have misunderstood your question. I believe that the Holy
Spirit caused one of Mary's eggs to become a fetus without sperm." -
Steve Bedard
"In vertebrates, the phenomena of parthenogenesis (look it up) is well
documented in the classes Pisces, Amphibia and Reptilia, but not in Aves
nor Mammalia. Therefore, we are forced to conclude that ol' Jesus must
have been either a land shark or the original lounge lizard." - Marty
Leipzig
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Methinks they protest too much! If God doesn't exist, why pay any
attention to the activities of Christians?" - Frank Mcfatridge
"Because if you don't, one of their number might just stick a 12 gauge in
your ear and pull the trigger." - Marty Leipzig
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Most believers know the Bible was written by humans. The "issue" is
whether or not the human authors accurately described events such as the
parting of the sea." - John Prewitt
"Okay. Then how did humans describe events such as the creation, which
happened before there were any humans to witness them? So much for that
hypothesis." - Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Do you really expect me to believe that if God came down and killed your
child that you wouldn't be in the least bit upset?" - David Worrell
"Why should I be? Thier all going to heaven." - Kenneth Mcabee
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I watched my daddy farm." - Hampie Mcdonald
"Fancy that... Old Mcdonald had a farm." - J.J. Hitt
[Some months later]
"Ahhh... I'm see FAQ fragements again... only to find out that I
have become obsolete." - J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /046
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:20:18
EID:1251 20711280
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756d
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Besides, if I was caught in a boat with Don [Ward], I'd jump overboard."
- Kevin Mckenzie
"That's where you and I are different - I'd throw Don overboard." - David
Worrell
"When you get to be my age, you learn patience. I would not jump
overboard. I would not throw him overboard. In such a situation, with
only two guys, one boat, and the sea stretching for miles, I stand an
excellent chance of getting hungry later on." - Don Martin
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"This is not comprehenable to man's brain." - Alan Kern
"So which is it, Alan? You don't comprehend it or you don't have a man's
brain?" - "Hector Plasmic"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"So, "God" talks to you?" - Kevin Mckenzie
"Sure! Doesn't he talk to everybody?" - Tenna Draper
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I agree it was not written for our level of technology. Yet fundies, in
spite of this, still insist on a literal interpretation." - Bruce Riley
"Yet Daniel told of aircraft, wireless radio, headlights on cars. Modern
technology. Naahhh." - Titus Ashbury
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"We are _all_ worthy of death." - Tenna Draper
"*You* might be. Kindly leave the rest of us out of your delusions." -
David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Tuck your telephone wire up your arse, Doug, and upload your nine posts
where they will do the most good." - Don Martin
"I can always tell when I've hit the nail on the head: folks start
squawking. Thanks for confirming that the message got out." - Doug Snead
"You take a studied, vulgar insult of your behavior as a "squawk"? You
ARE a mindless little pustule, aren't you?" - DM
"BTW. Are you saved?" - DS
"I am afraid I do not share your hallucinations regarding imaginary
superfriends. Corroborate your biblical ravings with some verifiable
evidence, and I might consider signing up. But not until." - DM
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /047
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:20:19
EID:d290 20711280
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756e
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"May the Lord Jesus Christ soften your heart, Mr Martin." - Doug Snead
"He seems to have done a very good job of softening your brain."
- J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"It is stupid little gooks that bother me. Go stick it up your yellow
ass." - Matt Giwer
"I always suspected that Mr. Giwer was a complete and total gerbil
smuggling sheep humper, and now you've provided me with concrete
evidence. It's losers like that who give the rest of us godless heathens
a bad name." - Quentin Fai
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"JESUS died for His people." - Douglas Duke
"Jesus didn't die, remember? Don't you Christers believe he still
lives?" - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"The scientific evidence is at the end. Read the whole posting, it
flows." - Andew Conner
"Another characteristic it shares with diarrhoea." - Don Martin
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"So, why do the paramedics take a pulse? Why don't they just thump the
patient on the head?" - Don Ward
"Because, in your case, it could possibly damage their hands." - Dan
Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Oxygen is technically a poison, and is one of the causes of our eventual
death. Would you appreciate it if I tried to stop you from breathing to
prevent the damage to your body that oxygen causes?" - David Worrell
"Once again, a terrible analogy. I shouldn't even bother answering it,
but I might as well say something. First of all we need oxygen to
survive. I don't have to have sex with a male or female in order to
survive." - Ralph Jansen
"Irrelevant. Your whole argument against homosexuality rests on the fact
that it damages bodily tissues. Oxygen does the same thing. However,
since you don't like the oxygen angle, try certain harmful food groups.
Do you believe that fried foods should be outlawed since they damage our
bodies? Yes, I know, we do need to eat to survive, but it doesn't have
to be fried chicken. Are you going to support the campaign to outlaw
Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant?" - DW
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /048
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:20:20
EID:d6d0 20711280
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2681756f
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"What happens when that big fusion bomb fails to emit light and heat." -
Andrew "Head-crash" Conner
"We freeze to death. Got any more silly questions?" - David Worrell
"Evidence of DE-EVOLUTION" - AC
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Satan is clever" - Don Ward
"And, of course, you don't want to be anything like satan.
Congratulations, you've succeeded." - Hector Plasmic
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Perhaps we could use him [Jim Staal] as a buoy in the middle of the
shipping channel." - Dan Ceppa
"I don't think so. Can you imagine the time it would take to get
anything done in a harbor if one of the bouys was constantly
proselytizing every ship that passed by?" - David Worrell
"ROTFL! `I baptize you the USS Fundy! Now, be fruitful and deliver those
bananas.'" - Dan Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"The USA could kick Canada's butt with 99% of our military tied behind
our back... thanks to our technological and military knowledge." - Andrew
Cummins
"Wow, how patriotic of you. Patriotism is one thing, Andy...but
ignorance of the world is the one disease you seem to suffer from most.
Why would you be proud of the fact that we can invade and take over
Canada (this is doubtful I might add)? Why would you be proud of the
fact that we've invested so much money in bullets and far from enough in
education?" - Ryan Shaw
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I've already addressed this in one message to you, but to emphasize: I
AM NOT A FUNDAMENTALIST. Do NOT make assumptions about me thinking I
am." - Michael Hardy
"`Quack,' said a certain flight-capable aquatic fowl. You persist in
trying to include the unaffected in your beliefs. If you have webbed
feet, quack and waddle like a duck, chances are, you are, indeed, a
duck." - Fredric Rice
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"(Here, sheep, sheep, sheep.... Here, sheep, sheep, sheep.....)" -
Quentin Fai
"Try your local church." - Drew Webber
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /049
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:21:21
EID:1611 207112a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817570
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"The main thrust of the cross is that JESUS was placed upon a pole, just
as Moses lifted up the serpent on a pole in the OT." - Douglas Duke
"And when the Pope lifts his staff, we have the spectacle of Jesus on a
pole on a Pole." - Don Martin
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Christians have a right and a duty to eradicate all false religions from
the face of the earth. If possible this should be done through bringing
the lost to Jesus. If that doesn't work then these false relions should
be destroyed by any means necessary." - "Trent Dented"
"Dear Trent... You aint dented, yer fucking wrapped around a goddam
tree. Do any of these "false religions" that you have marked for
destruction claim to be Christian? If so, please tell me how you tell
the "true" Christians from the "false" Christians? Are you out to
destroy all Catholics or all Protestants? And what about the Christian
Scientists, Jehovas Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and the
Salvation Army? You gonna destroy all them too? They _ALL_ beleive in
Jesus, even if they disagree with the mainstream on some points. How
many Jews are you going to destroy? (The current high score is
six-million some odd. That's going to be mighty hard to beat.)" - J.J.
Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Atheist ethics are so much hot air." - John Prewett
"While Christian ethics carry hot lead with them?" - George Rudzinski
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Christianity would be amusing, if it hadn't killed millions throughout
history." - Unknown
"Christianity never killed anybody or anything. Angry, frightened people
killed other people while hiding behind the name." - Charlie Cowan
"Hmm. By the same reasoning, Naziism never killed anybody. The problem
with such reasoning is that it completely ignores the reality that many
dogmas include an incitement to killing. Take a gander at the Old
Testament, for example: it is loaded with rampant killing, generally for
no more reason than that the victims dared to think for themselves." -
Kelsey Bjarnason
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Maybe you should ask MISTER Ceppa. He'll probably try and convince you
that is really Dave Oosterman." - Jim Staal
"Between you and Oosterman, you don't have enough balls to make a pawn
sign symbol." - Dan Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Believe me, I *KNOW* the human side of *frustration*!!!" - Niki Zanzo
"Have you considered hiring a hooker?" - "Captain Fuck"
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04A
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:21:22
EID:3411 207112a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817571
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I didn't think that curse words and sacrigious messages belonged on this
conference." - Margureet Kendall
"You have provided ample evidence of your incapacity to think in the
past, so why should the present be any different?" - Don Martin
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Gravity to you is Satan holding you back from the salvation of Jesus
Christ." - Don Ward
"What have you been smoking and what was it laced with?" - Preston
Simpson
"Second hand smoke laced with the spirit of GOD" - Don Ward
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Gay people are worshipers of SATIN" - Don Ward
"No sheet?" -J.J. Hitt
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"One day not to far away I am afaid to say that it will actually be
against the law to speak of Jesus in public," - Michell Miller
Your paranoid delusions are amusingly ridiculous. But if they make life
a little sweeter for you, enjoy." - Robert Curry
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"American schools are falling FAR behind the rest of the world. We are
really becoming a joke, in so far as education goes. This started when
we took prayer and creation teaching out of public schools. Conclussion:
We took God out of school, and the school system is falling apart." -
Doug Brewer
"Preposterous to the nth degree. The Japanese have one of the most
rigorous and hardest school systems in the world, churning out
highly-educated people who, unlike many of their American counterparts,
can read, write, and cipher by the time they graduate. I am not aware of
*any* Christian influence in *any* Japanese class, yet they consistently
provide higher educational standards than we do. Conclusion: Your
conclusion is full of shit." - Preston Simpson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"... God told me to set you on fire." - Dan Ceppa
"Uh, I don't _think_ so. God does not talk to evil pagans who do not
believe He exists." - Jim Staal
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"What does John 3:16 mean to you." - Marguerite Kendall
"It means it is time for John to get a new watch. His current one is
stuck." - Steve Rose
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04B
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:22:23
EID:3551 207112c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817572
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Bob Swell
"Kill any innocent witches of late?" - Fredric Rice
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I didn't make this up, it says this in the Bible." - Chris Vetter
"I see. So you are simply allowing someone else to make it all up for
you." - Steve Rose
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Ah, the tired and disreputable old "He wasn't a *true* Christian"
argument. Save it for someone who hasn't heard it." - Preston Simpson
"Argumentum ad bozum non Christii." - Robert Jackson
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I guess you are also forgetting the practice of human sacrifice as
described in the bible?" - Judith "Bandsaw" Bandsma
"Shame on you Judith! You call yourself a Quaker! I smell a witch." - Jim
Murray
"Fee, fie, fo, fum, we all smell the stench of Christendom. Gonna start
lighting bonfires, are you now? It's quite typical of the ignorant to
accuse those more learned than they of "witchcraft". Your ancestors from
Plymouth would be so thrilled that you are carrying on the family
bigotry. I suppose you still wear one of those pointy hats to hide your
pointed head." - Dan Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Alcohol should still be illegal. I am sure that everyone is familiar
with the harm that it does when used to excess. If everyone were capable
of using it in moderation, I would see no problem with it, but you and I
know that is not the case." -Dan Baldwin/Captain Fuck/Dr. James Robertson
"So your answer is punish everybody because a minority of idiots lack
self-control and good judgement? Gee, then I guess we should ban the use
of automobiles, firearms, cutlery, and baseball bats. Your inability to
reason astounds me. And I've met my share of unreasonable people." -
Garrett Banse
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"As marijuana does not produce food, it was not put here for our
benefit." - Dan Baldwin/Captain Fuck/Dr. James Robertson
"Do you have even the most remote evidence to support this stupid idea?
We cannot eat air, gasoline, cotton, glass, etc. either, so by your
statement I guess we should all run around naked until we suffocate,
huh?" - John Hewett
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04C
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:22:24
EID:f590 207112c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817573
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"I hope Staal and Oosterman are covering their ears. Or should I tell
them you're in desperate need of counseling?" - Unknown
"Counseling? Counseling for what?" - Jim Staal/Dave Oosterman
"A split personality. Thing is, between the 2 of you, you don't have
one." - Dan Ceppa
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"More unsubstantiated rubbish. Can't you think for yourself?" - Preston
Simpson
"Sorry I don't need too, I have God to think for me." - Kenneth Mcabee
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"[however, even in the OT, God reasoned with God's people," - John
Prewitt
"and anyone who was not "God's people" were wiped off the face of the
planet if they got in the way." - David Worrell
"So,... once the word gets around, smart people don't get in the way."
-- John Prewett
"Ahhh.. I see. God's a *bully*. It's so much clearer now. You have
reaffirmed the claim made by many of us heathens that your God rules
through intimidation and fear." - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Stop the car or you're going to drive off a cliff!" That's what the
warning of "hell" is Stephen, a warning -- not a threat." - Michael Hardy
"Ahh, but God put us in the car, cut the brake lines, and aimed the car
at a cliff." - David Worrell
"Then hid all evidence that the cliff exists, made sure that all
'warnings' were irrational, illogical, and patently absurd, and then
selected only drooling lunatics as its spokespeople. Guite obviously,
this god of theirs is more fucked up than they are." - David Rice
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Now, the sun-worshippers noticed that at certain points in time, the sun
grew smaller, then stopped, then grew larger." - Leon Brooks
"It doesn't. It doesn't even APPEAR to change in size." - J.J. Hitt
"Perhaps you haven't been staring at it for long enough." - Leon Brooks
[OBSOLETE]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Ask your local public librarian about other scriptures, Jim." - Robert
Curry
"There are no other scriptures, Robert..." - Jim Staal
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04D
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:22:25
EID:37d1 207112c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817574
PID: FM 2.02
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"You guess wrong. The Hindus, the Zoroastrians, and the Buddhists are
just three other religious groups that had religious scriptures before
your Christian religion even began writing its own." - Robert Curry
"Ha-ha! Where _do_ you get this irresponsible information? Nothing could
be farther from the truth. Nothing predates Genesis 1:1...'in the
beginning...'." - Jim Staal
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"That's it, blow job. "IS NOT!!!!!" You are a liar" - Drew Webber
"AM NOT!!!" - Jim Staal
" Scream it a little louder for those in back." - Preston
Simpson
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Greg, you old papsmear, long time no see. I have been awaiting with
bated revulsion your detailed account of the number of changes that have
taken place in Carbon dating over the past 30 years, with some attention
paid to whether or not these were refinements in technique. So far, it
has yet to appear. Do you need a repost of the original to know precisely
what claim it was of yours that I was seeking additional information on?
Just say the word!" - Don Martin
"Just think about it... why else woulf they number the types of carbon
dating?" - Gregg Waggy
" Do you mean like Carbon-14 or Carbon-12? Dumbass, that
number refers to the isotope of carbon that is being used. You can do
better than this - how many times has carbon dating changed in the last
30 years?" - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"But why do many theists have compassion for a nearly brainless fetus,
when they have little or no compassion for other fully functioning
individuals?" - Rob Burcham
"They feel a certain kinship with the fetus, maybe? " - David Worrell
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
"Do you think Jesus is proud of your feeble attempt at an insult?" -
David Worrell
Ah! So you do believe in Jesus. That's a good start! Now you need to love
him and accept him as your Lord and Savior. Then you'll be fine. Trust in
the Lord and all will be well." - Scott Brubaker
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04E
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:23:26
EID:f710 207112e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817575
PID: FM 2.02
ÍMisc. ResourcesÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
TOP TEN QUESTIONS THAT THE BIBLE CAN NOT ANSWER:
10 How many legs does a grasshopper have?
9 What is the ratio between a circle's diameter and it's circumference
pi)?
8 What is a "firmament"?
7 Who recorded the events in the Garden of Gethsemane if all of the eye
witnesses were asleep?
6 What tree grew in the middle of the Garden of Eden?
5 Is a bat a bird?
4 What does "Selah" mean?
3 How did Judas die?
2 How long was the Ark afloat?
1 Why did Jesus hate dogs?
[From J.J. Hitt]
ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
-6.02 * 1.0E+23-
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: All
|Sub: HolySmoke FAQ /04F
|Date: 17 Mar 96 02:25:27
EID:f650 20711320
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 26817576
PID: FM 2.02
Well, folks, that's it. The First FAQ under my curatorship.
My main accomplishment this time was to get it sliced into traditional FidoNet
size slices. I believe this will improve the success rate at getting an
intact FAQ to all Networks.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
SEEN-BY: 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 1300 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: CONVERSATION CHOICES
|Date: 16 Mar 96 16:14:00
EID:5fda 207081c0
-=> Quoting Dawn Kleuser to Masochistic Maiden <=-
DK> ASK for it!). I don't doubt I was (and probably still am) the cause
of
DK> much riotous laughter. Oh, well, humor is good, too.
Did you learn to read something of an echo before posting to it? If you
did, then the experience was valuable and could save you some other
problems down the line.
This is the ONLY echo where you can learn things like this without getting
bounced out on your ear.
This is HolySmoke, religious food fight and education echo.
... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 16 Mar 96 16:40:00
EID:1b04 20708500
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Chris Campbell <=-
LB> I'm not sure how evidence of the Flood would necessarily be evidence
LB> of any god, though...
It sure would be a good start. For one thing, it would establish credibility
to that portion of the bible. Evidence that such a flood (worldwide and
to
the proper depth) had occurred would almost HAVE to lead to the belief
in a supernatural intervention. Evidence of the flood in the absence of
the water necessary to do it? Evidence of the flood but no evidence of the
heat release that would be logical from that much water in that short a
time?
It would make a very strong argument for a god. Not necessarily the god
it's attributed to, but a definite unexplained phenomenon that could be
expressed in the idea 'god'.
... "Scattered Showers, my ASS!"....Noah
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|Sub: dinosaurs?
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:46
EID:3c15 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b09
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh CHRIS CAMPBELL dinosaurs? wgah'nagl fhtagn.
CC> Well, i'm looking here at a picture of human and dino tracks in a
CC> riverbed side by side. It was taken on Sunday July 11, 1971 on the
CC> bed of the Paluxy river near Glen Rose ,Texas by a Dr. Dougherty.
CC> Above that is a picture of Dr. Burdick, a geologist, with a couple
CC> of plaster casts showing dino and human (very large) footprints.
CC> Hmmm. 5 toes, all out front, looks human.
Unfortunately, it is known and has been known for some time that the Paluxy
tracks were either misinterpreted or hoaxed outright. The ICR (the
Institute for Creation Research [better known as Insane Creationist
Ramblings]) pushed the Paluxy tracks as real until they were caught in
their lie some years ago--and I've heard that they pushed it again as
fact. Plus ca change, plus cette la meme chose.
CC> Oh, and there is mention of a Dr. Fields of Ozark College stating
CC> that he and his team believe that they are genuine," because of
CC> pressure ridges and other various characteristics..."
And what, exactly, are Dr. Fields' qualifications to make such a judgment?
CC> Oh, and then I recall the Acambero collection. A 20,000 piece
CC> collection of stone works showing humans in combat with dinos.
Really? How interesting. And when was this dated to? Got any documentation
available on this one?
... "Atmosphere is the all-important thing." -- Lovecraft
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Larry Bevard
|Sub: Re: Bible
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:46
EID:a967 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0a
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Larry Bevard Re: Bible wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS>3. I believe that Jesus was an actual, historical personage. I do not
PS>believe that he was divine, nor do I believe any of the tales attributed
PS>to him.
PS>I already have a Bible, a hangover from my fundamentalist days. I read
it
PS>often, and find it to be a good source of humor and horror.
LB> I'm interested now, just what did make you change from a
LB> fundamentalist to the realist you are now? I'm not wanting to make
LB> sport of you or to try to re-convert you, I'm just interested in some
LB> of the reasons.
My faith began to weaken after I'd lived with my mother for some time.
She and my father had separated, and a short-term cause of that was her
recent (and fervent) embrace of Christianity. When she had a place of
her own, she became even *more* fervent--rebuking storms in the name of
Jesus and suchlike. That wasn't too bad. Uncomfortable, but not injurious.
After a very short while, she began pushing me to become as fanatic about
Christianity as she was--which was nearly unbearable. Finally, shortly
before I moved back in with my father, I realized that despite two suicide
attempts and various other idiocies that I endured, God never once answered
or seemed to be listening to my prayers. Not once in all the time that I
had been a Christian before them. Not "No," not "Maybe later," not
"We'll see," NO answer--rather like talking to a wall. At that point, I
made the very last prayer I have ever made in my life: I told God that
I was not going to worship him any more and if he wanted to do anything
about it, he knew where to find me.
Since then, my life has been much, much easier and more fulfilling. Yes,
I have the usual bad days and whatnot, but on the whole, life is more
enjoyable for me as an agnostic than it was as a Christian.
... Cthulhu is a H.P. Lovecraft Thing...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Larry Bevard
|Sub: children
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:47
EID:710d 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0b
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Larry Bevard children wgah'nagl fhtagn.
LB> To add to the problem, there is psychological trama to the woman
LB> that had the abortion also. Adoption can be handled better than you
There is that, but I have also seen statistics reporting that nearly all
women who have had an abortion are well-adjusted to it a year after the
fact.
LB> indicate, even though I agree that it often leads the child to think
LB> there was something wrong with then, that's why mommy didn't want me.
True. It can be handled better, but there is also the problem of clogged
adoption agencies and the current demand for babies who can readily pass
as the natural children of the adoptive parents--which leads to some
kids being stuck in orphanages for years.
LB> Now a day, a single mom is nouthing strange, so the social stigma is
LB> not there, and as far as the child feeling not wanted, that is the
Depends upon the part of the country and the surrounding culture, really.
In certain parts of the South, single mothers are still looked upon with
great scorn.
LB> handled. As far as relieving population pressure, I don't think this
LB> enters into the thought process very often.
I tend to agree with you.
PS>Excellent. Let's start with sex education classes--explicit ones. None
of
PS>this dancing around the issue, no being puritanical about it. Tell people
PS>exactly what can happen when they have sex, and what they can do to make
PS>it safer for themselves and their potential offspring.
LB> I don't think this is what Jim means, after all, in areas that
LB> have explicit sex education in the schools, the praganacy rate has
LB> gone up. But, in areas that has taught absencenesce and
LB> responcibility, the rate goes down.
Look at what I wrote. Have I thrown abstinence completely out on its ear?
PS>You're being unclear. Don't you mean, "have the mother marry the father"?
PS>But I digress. While this represents a "best of both worlds" scenario,
it
PS>is not the most realistic one, nor the most likely one.
LB> I should hope that that is what he means! And you are right, in
LB> that some times it is not a realistic option, but it is one that need
LB> to be looked at. To often, that is not even thought of as an option.
I am not in favor of excluding options lightly.
PS>According to some, it follows that a man who is rich must also sin. We
PS>can discuss economics and religious ethics all you like, but you must
PS>remember that these aren't pleasant times to be poor in. Frequently,
the
PS>poor are victimized in many areas--by the state, by their employers,
by
PS>the rich, and by themselves. They lack the economic power to defend what
PS>little they have and suffer as a result.
LB> Heck, us who would normally be consided middle income lacks power
LB> to do anything except survive. But, survive we do as do lower income
And the "middle income" types are becoming more and more squeezed out of
society. If trends continue, I'll wager that before too much longer, we'll
see a society with only two viable income classes: high and low.
LB> people. This is still no excuse for a man to conceive a child and
LB> then not be responsible enough to marry the woman and take care of
LB> them.
Have I said that it was?
LB> worse instead of better. As far as religion being a form of escapism,
LB> I am sure some uses it as that, but there are others that sees it as
a
LB> responsiblity not only to themselves but the world. they practice
LB> what the preach and try to help as best they can.
Some do. Many do not. Religion is fine for the people that really need the
crutch. For others, though, using that crutch will only cripple them.
PS>Look at it like this: many anti-abortionists tell us that 30 million
people
PS>have been killed since the Roe v. Wade decision in '73. I look at it
in
PS>another light: think of how much harder things would be if we had 30
PS>million extra people in this country.
LB> I personally find that a sick attitude. I do not think of
LB> abortion as an option, and we can always find room for one more person
LB> in our lives if we try.
Really? And would you be willing to tell that to the Chinese? The Indians
perhaps? How about the Somalis and Ethiopians?
You must remember, Larry, that not everyone has access to the resources
that Americans do.
... Suicide is the most sincere form of self-criticism.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Baptism
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:47
EID:80c5 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0c
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Norbert Sykes Re: Baptism wgah'nagl fhtagn.
NS> Maybe god needs to be fitted with a clapper so that you can find him
NS> any time you need him. AND, if you attach your keys to god, you can
NS> get them at the same time. I can see it now:
This sounds like a bad, bad infomercial.
NS> beepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbee
NS> p
Possibly one of the most annoying sounds known to man.
NS> "Ah, there you are . . . how'd you get stuck down behind the sofa
NS> cushion? Hey, there's a quarter . . ."
Take the quarter and the keys, leave the Jehovah.
... I love you. You love me. Let's hang Barney from a tree.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Debate/Logic/Education
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:47
EID:0e8d 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0d
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Norbert Sykes Debate/Logic/Education wgah'nagl fhtagn.
NS> I use as my sources for understanding logic the FAQ from this echo,
NS> to a certain extent, and a small book that I've had for a couple of
NS> years called Elementary Logic, by Willard Van Orman Quine. But I know
NS> that this isn't enough.
In my case, I got by on less. I've been on HOLYSMOKE for over a year, more
like two--and my education on logic and the procedures used in debate all
came from this conference.
... If you aren't part of a solution, you are a precipitate.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Thumb-sucking Evolung
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:47
EID:4db8 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0e
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Norbert Sykes Re: Thumb-sucking Evolung wgah'nagl fhtagn.
AM> One would be A.I Orapin " Origin of Life" Macmillian 1924
PS> ^^^^
PS> Couldn't you find anything more recent?
AM> He advanced various hypothesis of how life could begin from
AM> inanimate matter.
PS> And are these hypotheses widely accepted by the scientific community?
NS> Hmmm . . . I've certainly never heard of him. Trust Andrew to find
NS> as obscure a source as he can to hide behind . . .
Nor have I. It seems that Andy couldn't be bothered to come up with
anything better known.
... Boolean Bible. It's all true and/or at least partly false
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:47
EID:0360 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b0f
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Norbert Sykes Re: Waco Rememberance wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS> class as an Abrams. And a canister round from a 120 mm (yes, they do
PS> make such things) would probably have spelled the end of all of the
PS> BDs.
NS> Do you have any idea how many actual tanks were used? If they only
That I know of? None at all. And I can tell the difference 'twixt a
Bradley and an Abrams on sight.
NS> used the Bradleys, then TLP is posturing poorly, based on a myth.
NS> I'd be curious to know.
He's using "tanks" probably because CNN and every other circle-jerk news
agency that hired a pseudo-military "expert" couldn't tell the difference
between a real tank (or MBT) and an AFV (basically a troop-carrier with
some light weapons).
... "Thief" is so ugly. I prefer "Creative Acquisition Specialist."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:48
EID:d2f6 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b10
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Don Martin Cult Christianity wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS> Yes, it is, and that's one reason why non-religionists have such a
PS> tough row to hoe, so to speak. We have to deal with life on realistic
PS> terms and it can be a hard thing to admit that shit happens and no
PS> invisible god is going to fix it.
DM> Or even worse, that there is no invisible god to blame
DM> it on.
Indeed. Sometimes, it's a real pain in the ass. But it could be worse.
Imagine living in the Bible Belt and everyone being able to know that
you're an agnostic/atheist/goat-worshipper/tree-fucker/whatever-non-
Christian on sight.
... "Geez... have you ever seen so many frigging Orcs? Guys? Guys?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Your Daily Murder
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:48
EID:9c02 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b11
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh J.J. Hitt Your Daily Murder wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS> anything, might incite surrounding nations to attack the
PS> attacker as a pre-emptive strike.
JH> It was also the key to the rapid expansion of Islam. Prophet
JH> Moe and the Caliphs that followed him applied the Roman system
JH> and were just as sucessful with it as the Romans were.
I've heard that the Persians also used this system, but I'm unsure as it's
been some years since I read up on it.
JH> Living subjects can be made to pay taxes and can be conscripted
JH> into the military. If you destroy the local population, their
While subjects can be resentful, it seems to have been borne out by
history that any revolution will fail unless the ruling power is occupied
elsewhere or too incompetent to hang on to the area in question.
JH> economy, farmland and other resources then the only thing you
JH> have to show for your efforts is a depopulated wasteland, something
JH> which will probably prove to be a drain on your treasury rather than
JH> an asset.
The intimidation factor is outweighed by financial ones alone.
... Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can get a rock
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Selena Kerr
|Sub: The end?
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:48
EID:a043 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b12
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Selena Kerr The end? wgah'nagl fhtagn.
SK> Hey all! Is anyone familiar with the predictions of M. Nostradamus?
Yes. Amazing that people can wring anything intelligible from his
quatrains. They frequently read like badly-written poetry about odd
things.
SK> I have recently read that the world is supposed to end by nuclear war
SK> at the end of the year 1999. This seems to coincide with the bible,
Millenialist hogwash. Humanity seems to have a subconscious fascination
with any year ending in 000--thus predicted Armageddon dates for 1999 and
2000 are common.
As for the nuclear war bit, that's interesting. Who exactly is going to
be
lobbing nukes at whom?
SK> doesn't it? I am not very familiar with the bible. There are a few
SK> things that Nostradamus predicted that have already come true, so I
SK> guess the end is inevitable?
No. Nostradamus made so *many* predictions that by the simple laws of
probability he should have gotten at least some of them right.
SK> What do you think? Anyone from any different religions have anything
SK> to add to do with "the christian apoccolypse"?
The Apocalypse is an interesting idea, but nothing to get worked up over.
... "Man has the one true religion. Several of them!" -- Twain
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Heavenly Father
|Date: 17 Mar 96 18:06:48
EID:ea39 207190c0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 314c9b13
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Brad Jackson Heavenly Father wgah'nagl fhtagn.
BJ> debate! We both know that there is only one God (Jesus Christ) so
BJ> there isn't much to debate about.
Of course not. The blind can't lead the blind that well.
BJ> I hope these people don't get you upset with their messages! I
BJ> have noticed that if you tell the truth and quote the truth from the
BJ> Bible they all fall by the way side. I started out here getting
Like the bit about the Israelites being ordered to kill little boys?
BJ> between 10 to 20 messages a day. But as soon as they realized I was
BJ> not afraid of them and that God's word stands the test of time they
BJ> quit posting me. You see they really don't have anything to say and
An interesting rationalization. There are a number of more likely
alternative explanations:
1. They got tired of trying to say anything meaningful to someone who
doesn't seem able to understand meaningful things.
2. FIDO ate their messages or yours.
3. Nobody cares that much about you any more.
BJ> they don't stand up for anything. God's words are true today as they
Well, no.
I stand for plenty of things. It isn't my fault that you consider what
I do stand for to be pointless or non-existent; that's merely an indication
of lack of attention on your part.
BJ> were when they were first taught. I hope young people will see that
BJ> God will be with you always no matter where you may go to spread the
BJ> word of the gospel. Be true onto him and he will never leave you or
BJ> forsake you! Heb 13:5 (KJV)
A lie, by my own experience.
BJ> Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Yes--dead.
... This world holds many weird people. I am three of them.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Mike Ruskai
|To: Larry Craig
|Sub: False Christians
|Date: 16 Mar 96 20:02:34
EID:df74 2070a040
MSGID: 1:107/634 2701841c
Some senseless babbling from Larry Craig to All
on 10 Mar 96 21:57:20 about False Christians...
LC> Why is the Christian Coalition supporting Bob Dole over Pat Buchanan?
LC> Bogus Bob is a 33rd. degree Mason, and Pat Robertson said - in his
LC> book - that the upper echelons of the "lodge" were Luciferians. And
LC> didn't Dole say that his administration would be inclusive of
LC> homosexuals (an abomination to God).
Why are you insecure enough to believe the tripe you call religion?
Mike [Team OS/2]
mruskai@microfone.net
... Are there any lawyers here? Any more?
~~~ ReneWave v1.01+
--- RG 10-5 Exp/GE 1.02+
* Origin: The Licking Factory, OS/2 in NJ! (908)815-3146 (1:107/634)
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|From: Mike Ruskai
|To: All
|Sub: Howdy
|Date: 16 Mar 96 20:02:35
EID:bad9 2070a040
MSGID: 1:107/634 2701841d
I'm getting a touch bored with OS Debate, so thought I'd drop in and
ridicule a few insecure witless religious types.
So, who would like to "save me", or flaunt their ring-side tickets at the
border of hell where they will watch me be immolated?
Mike [Team OS/2]
mruskai@microfone.net
... First Hillary, then Gennifer, now us.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01+
--- RG 10-5 Exp/GE 1.02+
* Origin: The Licking Factory, OS/2 in NJ! (908)815-3146 (1:107/634)
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|From: Mark Barnett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 16 Mar 96 01:10:00
EID:9156 20700940
MSGID: 1:3819/163 314BA3F2
DM> BJ>And where is your evidence for these angels? The Bible? And where
is you
DM> BJ>evidence that the Bible is anything more then another fictional book?
DM> MB> Ok were is your evidence that the Bible is just a Fictional book?
DM> Well, you can start with "Noah's Flood" and work your
DM>way on through, taking everything for which there is no
DM>corroborating evidence. That's the fiction. What is left,
DM>rather the smaller part, is Jewish history.
Ok lets try some of them you name them I will give them a shot. you will
more that likely come out ahead as I am not the Bible student I should
be, but i'm working on it and this should be good practice. ok let's see
your 1 to me 0 on the flood, whats next.
Your Brother in Christ,
Mark Barnett
* OLX 2.1 TD * If idiots could fly, he would be a 747.
* LAKOTA v1.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS: -* Texarkana, TX * 903-792-6135 *- (1:3819/163)
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|From: Mark Barnett
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 16 Mar 96 01:12:00
EID:5546 20700980
MSGID: 1:3819/163 314BA3F3
PS> BJ>And where is your evidence for these angels? The Bible? And where
is you
PS> BJ>evidence that the Bible is anything more then another fictional book?
PS> MB> Ok were is your evidence that the Bible is just a Fictional book?
PS>The fact that it speaks of a global flood of which there is no evidence
PS>is a good starter.
Well that's a good start but whats next let's work this out systematicly
...ow sprand a finger on that one. Ok lets see thats you 1 & me 0 on the
flood. NEXT.
Your Brother in Christ,
Mark Barnett
* OLX 2.1 TD * There is Hope for all, and There is Always room To DREAM!---
* LAKOTA v1.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS: -* Texarkana, TX * 903-792-6135 *- (1:3819/163)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Christian blow jobs, Staa
|Date: 14 Mar 96 02:52:33
EID:42ba 206e1680
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 31478a8c
REPLY: 1:271/460 3145bc5b
12 Mar 96 13:00, Kenneth Mcabee wrote to David Worrell:
KC>>>>>> Your god sure is mercurial.
KM>>>>> He sure is, praise the Lord.
DW>>>> Do you know what mercurial means, dipshit? Open that dictionary
DW>>>> you're always babbling about and look it up.
DW>>>> HINT: It does not mean merciful.
KM>>> Do you know what sarcasm?
DW>> Sure I do, Ken. You, however, have shown no understanding of
DW>> sarcasm in the past. Thus, I doubt that you really know what it
DW>> is or how to use it. The only conclusion I can draw from the
DW>> evidence presented is that you made a mistake and are now lying
DW>> to try to cover it up. Silly li'l fundy.
KM> And the only conclusion that I can draw from your statements is
.... the conclusion completely farthest from the truth? Yes, we know, Ken.
KM> that no matter what you are told, you will always consider what
KM> someone says that has faith, a lie, no matter what you are told.
See what I mean? You couldn't be more wrong. Run back into your hole and
throw some babble verses at me now, li'l fundy.
KM> Sarcasm is just like a joke sometimes you get it, sometimes you
KM> don't.
Unless we're talking about you, of course. You never get it.
KM> And in this case David, not only does it seem like it went over
KM> your head, you better get a ticket on the next shuttle craft if
KM> you want a chance to understand it. Have a nice day...
Keep trying to dig yourself out of that hole li'l fundy...
---
* Origin: At any time, at any place, our snipers can drop you (1:3615/41.11)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: PHARAOH FORCED TO SIN
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:d275 206e7800
* Original: FROM..... DAVID WORRELL (0:0/0)
* Original: TO....... MICHAEL HARDY (0:0/0)
* Original: FORUM.... HOLY
* Forwarded by Silver Xpress
08 Mar 96 23:59, Michael Hardy wrote to Kenneth Cavness:
KC>> I see. So, forcing a land into famine (the plague of locusts),
KC>> killing off all the firstborn, and causing an incredible number
KC>> of people to die of thirst (pollution of the water supply by
KC>> turning it into blood) was just a "nudge".
MH> By the time God started unleashing real punishment, Pharoah had
MH> been offered, and refused, several chances to do the right thing.
Notice that God did not punish Pharoah. He punished Pharoah's *subjects*
most
(if not all) of whom had no control over Pharoah's decision. That's some
God
you worship there, Hardly.
Would somebody please forward this to Mikey? Thanks.
-!-
! Origin: At any time, at any place, our snipers can drop you (1:3615/41.11)
B
... Jesus saves. The rest of us rack up credit card debt.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: 20 MOST DISGUSTING CA
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:2013 206e7800
On 12 Mar 96 07:16am, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to BECKE JONES:
SM>> 20- Porn directors who dress up children to look like lawyers.
BJ>> 21- Television evangelists
JB> 22- Television evangelists who are also lawyers.
23- Television evangelists who are politicians.
Becke
JB> ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
JB> --- FLAME v1.1
JB> * Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498
JB> (1:372/911)
JB> B
... I can't be overdrawn, I still have checks left!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: FEED PROBLEMS, OF COU
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:75a3 206e7800
On 12 Mar 96 07:19am, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to BECKE JONES:
BJ>> Good to know someone remembers me! =) Anything interesting happen
BJ>> while I was gone?
JB> Lots. Too much to even know where to start. Just keep reading, you
JB> should get up to speed fairly quickly.
I've caught bits and pieces here in there...Most interesting one I saw was
something about Steve Winter being kicked off Fido...when did this go down
and what brought it about?
Becke
... If we believe absurdities, then we shall commit atrocities...
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: TOYS
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:f403 206e7800
On 12 Mar 96 07:33am, DAN CEPPA wrote to MASOCHISTIC MAIDEN:
->> On 03-08-96 19:16, Masochistic Maiden got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>> Not quite... the nasty fact of evidence is required to support
DC>> a theory, as well as predictions based on that theory. Otherwise,
DC>> you may has well believe in the Easter Bunny.
MM>> Oh, the old must have evidence to exist thing. Uh try this. Take a
MM>> colorblind man, and try to give him evidence that color exists. Other
DC> I have a friend that is colorblind and he knows that color exists.
DC> He is very careful to label his clothes with their actual colors
DC> and possible pairings. If something in his system goes wrong, he
DC> gets immediate feedback from those around him. Though he can't
DC> directly see the colors, he knows that they do not match.
Not only that...there are different levels of color-blindness. For example,
some color-blind men can't tell the difference between red and green at
all.
My roommate is classified as color-blind--and he can tell the difference
between red and green, but just sometimes has trouble telling the different
shades apart. It seems as though MM is getting the definition of color
blind
wrong all together--more or less seeing it as though color blind people
can't
see color at all...
Becke
... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: CREATION PROBLEMS- 2
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:01c2 206e7800
On 11 Mar 96 05:23pm, NORBERT SYKES wrote to BECKE JONES:
BJ>> 34:28)", and "Thus I fell down before the lord forty days and
BJ>> forty nights..." (Deut. 9:25)
BJ>> If "yom" means era instead of 24-hour period, Moses was "there
BJ>> with the Lord" a very long time.
BJ>> (Still more here, but I'm tired of typing--will type next installment
BJ>> in tommorow's packet)
BJ>> Becke
NS> Uhm, Becke, forgive me for asking, but if you found this document
NS> on AOL, why are you typing it?
Good, valid enough question. I switched mail readers right before I lost
my
FIDO feed. Still haven't figured out all the nuances of Silver Xpress and
can't figure out how to import a non-ASCII file through this import filter.
Give me a while, I'll figure it out eventually..=)
Becke
... Meaningless gods cannot grant what they do not have.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Becke Jones
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: CHRISTOLOGY
|Date: 14 Mar 96 15:00:00
EID:6724 206e7800
On 12 Mar 96 11:31pm, LEE WOOFENDEN wrote to DAN CEPPA:
LW> Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about christology:
LW>> If you are talking about the Bible, yes, I have read and studied it
LW>> for many years.
DC>> Too bad you have only read it.
LW> Dan, one of these days you're going to learn to use the English
LW> language so that people can figure out what you mean, instead of using
LW> it to make cryptic statements like this.
LW> Are you wringing your hands because I have only _read_ the Bible and
LW> have not, say, eaten it for lunch, or done some other creative thing
LW> with it?
Lee, this one is easy enough to figure out. What I took the post to mean
is
that it's a shame he's only read it, and not questioned it, or examined
it
from an objective, critical viewpoint.
LW>> Dan, the Bible is not so much a single "mythos" as a history of the
LW>> development of the mythos of a particular segment of the human race
Still doesn't discount the fact that it IS a mythos...
Becke
... I can't be overdrawn, I still have checks left!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 153
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- KBBS vZ.20p (#ARI-00092)
* Origin: Craig's Place Columbus, Ohio(1:226/700)
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|From: Raymon Prince
|To: All
|Sub: Explain
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:30:00
EID:b9a2 206e33c0
MSGID: 1:106/3339.0 3147BCE8
Can someone please explain to me what the confernce Holy Smoke is about?
I typed more, but I'll leave it at that...
Raymon Prince...
P.s Maybe the name of the confernece deceived me ?
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Drool game
|Date: 13 Mar 96 18:26:02
EID:31e0 206d9340
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f01055d
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
MICHAEL HARDY spoke thusly to JOHN PASSANITI:
MH> I defend my faith quite well. But I find no one here with a truly
MH>open mind toward it. You completely misunderstand, John -- I simply
MH>don't care a whit what people think of me, or my beliefs. If there
MH>were atheists here that I respected, then I'd be hurt that none of
MH>them are open. The vast majority, though, are semi-literate boors
MH>who have little to say beyond mindless slurs and insults. In two
MH>years I've encountered maybe five who were capable of discussing
MH>Christianity intelligently.
Are you trying to get flamed?
... "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: our daily alien
|Date: 13 Mar 96 18:35:03
EID:4077 206d9460
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f01056e
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
J.J. HITT spoke thusly to NORBERT SYKES:
JH> NS> I'll have you know that I got a pain in my side from
JH> NS> laughing at this one. }:) Nice to see that SOMEONE still
JH> NS> has the ol' work ethic around here.
JH>
JH> I haven't seen any George Mooth's robo-posts lately.
JH> I'm disappointed. I've got almost a month's worth of
JH> material lined up and I need him as an excuse to post
JH> it all.
Just pretend. I'm laughing my ass off.
... All truths change, except for this one.
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Hardy
|Date: 13 Mar 96 18:53:04
EID:d786 206d96a0
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f01057f
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
MICHAEL HARDY spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
MH>-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Michael Hardy <=-
MH>
MH> MH> John Prewett had said something along these same lines. I quoted
MH> MH>this, expecting him to offer his hearty agreement and adulation
MH> MH>of the author -- who I then would reveal is a Catholic
MH> MH>polemcist.
MH> KDM> Ah. OK, thank you. I take the earlier comment back.
MH>
MH> Knowing me as you do, I'm kind of disappointed you made the earlier
MH> comment, without at least giving me a chance to explain first.
Errrr . . . I thought I did. Fido must have eaten that one.
... I got a life once.Didn't like it.Traded it in for a bigger hard disk.
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Abortion enslaves wom
|Date: 13 Mar 96 19:34:05
EID:34a2 206d9c40
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f010590
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
SUE ARMSTRONG spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
SA> Missed this the first time. Ever heard Leslie Fish's "Feline
SA> KDM> American Princess?" If not, I'll send you the lyrics.
SA>
SA>Ooh. If you haven't done it already, I want to know the lyrics,
SA>too. Kevin went and got me hooked on her music.
Horrible when that happens, isn't it? I'll netmail all the the lyrics I
have by her now; I am very slowly working on getting them all together
for something on the Web. Until then, here's "Nightmare Launch:"
Nightmare Launch
Leslie Fish
This has to be a nightmare, some insane and hellish dream,
where I stand in silent shock, too numb to cry or scream.
Now tears are falling from my eyes, there's nothing I can do,
the fireball is overhead, oh god say it isn't true.
I watched you smiling waving, til you each seemed like a friend.
My comrades on the TV screen, and this can't be the end.
You lived the dream that I had dreamed and I longed to be there too,
and now it's ended, someone please come say it isn't true.
For Ronald, for Mike, and Frances, lord give me once the power,
For Ellison and Judy, to set time back just one hour.
For Gregory and Christa, lord there's nothing I can I do,
this has to be a nightmare, someone say it isn't true.
Please say it isn't true . . .
... Can you get a DUI on the information superhighway?
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Re: children
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:54:06
EID:65f6 206db6c0
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f0105a1
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
JIM GERMIQUET spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
JG> JG>The problem with abortion is that as soon as the egg and sperm
JG> JG>unite, you have a new unique individual human being. All it needs
JG> JG>is food and shelter until it can fend for itself. Put a one week
JG> JG>old child out in our chilly Candian winter and it is the same as
JG> JG>pulling an immature unborn baby from the womb of its mother.
JG>
JG> Please read the quote I was responding to, OK?
JG>
JG>I did, but I was responding to the question asked with my own
JG>personal opinion :-)
Yes, I know. It's hard to debate when you're debating multiple people
with multiple viewpoints, though.
JG> KDM> And let me explain the difference between the two -- once the
JG> KDM> child is out of the womb, *anyone* can take care of it. While
JG> KDM> it is in the womb, the mother is forced to do so. So, while in
JG> KDM> the womb, the mother can and does control the child's fate.
JG>
JG>I certainly understand the difference between an unborn child and a
JG>born child. The point however is that to put either one into
JG>conditions that would kill it or failing to provide it with the
JG>necessities of life, remains the same in either case.
No, they don't. In the first case, the mother is *forced* to provide
for the fetus; she is not forced to do so after it is born. No human
should be forced to provide for another; if you believe otherwise,
JG>And what if *anyone* doesn't happen to come along at 3 in the morning
JG>after you have thrown your child out in the backyard in sub zero
JG>temperatures? Then is it just considered an "abortion". You just
JG>couldn't be bothered waiting for *anyone* to be available to take
JG>care of the child. I mean 9 months is such a long time isn't it?
The difference is the same: it is murder because she could have passed
the responsibility on, and did not. Foster homes and adoption is always
a possibility.
JG>Of course in the womb the mother controls the fate of the child. And
JG>so to does she when the child is out of the womb as noted above she
JG>has the same choices.
No; once out, she can pass the responsibility on.
To clarify: what is your definition of abortion? Are there any times
when abortion is a moral thing to do? What is your definition of human,
as well?
... Better loved and lost than never lost at all.
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Notices
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:59:07
EID:d69c 206db760
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f0105b2
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
MICHAEL HARDY spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
MH> KDM> They may not have noticed Jesus himself, but they would have
MH> KDM> noticed things like his tomb being open, and, later on, the
MH> KDM> ability of certain people to speak in tongues.
MH>
MH> Why do you assume they didn't? In fact, there were a number of
MH> anti-Christian writings that attempted to explain away the empty
MH>tomb. None denied that the tomb was empty, which seems to be the
MH>first line of defense, if in fact it was true.
True; a bad example. I obviously need to do some research on Biblical
history. But is there anything on people speaking in tongues? A
missing body is fairly easy to fake; the ability to speak any language
less so.
... Conan the Librarian - "Yo book iz ovadue!"
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Records
|Date: 15 Mar 96 00:06:08
EID:a364 206f00c0
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f0105c3
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
MICHAEL HARDY spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
MH> MH> And well-attested to by what evidence we have available --
MH> MH>mainly the fact that people who lived very close in time and
MH> MH>space to the event believed it. That is, those most in a
MH> MH>position to know it believed wasn't true it was true.
MH>
MH> KDM> Then why are there no records saying this?
MH>
MH> Huh? What do you think the New Testament is? That it exists at all
MH> attests to this fact.
I know that. I'm talking about people who weren't supposed disciples of
Jesus.
... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Us bans abortionspeak
|Date: 15 Mar 96 00:08:09
EID:8a77 206f0100
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f0105d4
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
TL>TL> DW> Exactly. The Christians believe in a God without any real
TL>TL> DW> evidence whatsoever. You believe in the malicious intent of
TL>TL> DW> the government without any real evidence whatsoever.
TL>TL>Censorship being only the most recent UN-real evedence.
TL>
TL> KDM> Note the word malicious, please.
TL>
TL>Some actually 'BELIEVE' govt officials NEVER have an evil intent.
Did I ever say they didn't? However, malicious has a specific
definition, one that doesn't apply in this case.
... Unix is the operating system of the future, and always will be.
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 15 Mar 96 00:15:10
EID:2735 206f01e0
MSGID: 1:157/200 6f0105e5
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
TL>TL>There is NO legal 'duty' under the U.S. Constitution to follow an
TL>TL>order to run a tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and
TL>TL>children.
TL>
TL> KDM> This may come as a shock to you, but there are laws not found
TL> KDM> in the Constitution.
TL>
TL>You may be too unconsious to shock; but, in America NOTHING is legal
TL>if it dosn't comply with constitutional constraints. Maybe you
TL>missed that day in civics class.
No, I imagine my Government teacher was much more knowledgeable then you
are, or will ever be. What action violated Constitutional constraints?
TL> KDM> What rank? If I remember correctly, that defense is a
TL> KDM> applicable to people under a certain rank.
TL>
TL>Nada PeeWee. Even the lowliest of low is required to have, and use,
TL>a human conscience. Even a grunt is REQUIRED to disobey an unlawful
TL>order.
No, remember the Vietnam War?
TL>TL> KDM> At large? That's their job.
TL>
TL>And our 'job,' as citizens, is to bring them to justice.
If you can show they did something wrong, yes, though it isn't our job.
That is why we have police.
TL> KDM> I've done that. Waco should not have happened, I agree. I just
TL> KDM> don't think that everyone connected to it should be lined up
TL> KDM> against a wall and shot.
TL>
TL>That's right; govt has no authority to order agents to commit deadly
TL>acts against citizens who have not been ajudicated by running tanks
TL>thru a residence occupied with men, women and children.
They were given the opportunity to; Koresh did not take it, nor did
anyone else.
... Coming Soon: Mouse Support for Edlin!
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: the true nature of christ
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:38:03
EID:e099 206eb4c0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 2515a10f
REPLY: 1:284/120 6c03120c
> -=> Quoting Ryan Shaw to All <=-
>RS> After much pondering I have come to the conclusion that
-----------------------------
>RS> most if not all Christians are self-centered son of a bitches.
---------------
>RS> It would seem to me that they do not worship their god for
-------------------
>RS> the sake and `glory' of the action, but rather they're
>RS> attempting to save their own asses from eternal hellfire
>RS> and such.
>RS> It's a pity that I have had to expose them like this.
> You speak in the past tense with "I have had to expose".
> Please show your evidence that "all Christians are
> self-centered son of a bitches"
What part of Ryan's qualifier "conclusion that most if not all"
do you not understand?
> and that "they do not worship their god for the sake and glory
> of the action".
What part of Ryan's qualifier: "It would seem to me that..." do you
not understand? He was quite articulate in indicating that it was
his opinion.
If one has this much difficulty interpreting one of Ryan's clearly
qualified statements of opinion; one should wonder how much they
consequently misconstrue of statements in biblical scripture...
...which are infinitely more vague and cryptic.
-Styx
---
* Origin: The death of dogma is the birth of reality. (1:152/20)
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PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 218/801
|From: Styx Allum
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Going Away
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:58:04
EID:d85c 206eb740
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 2515a110
> "I plan on building a spaceship, fly to the moon, and salvage
> the junk that's been left there." No, wait. That was from the
> TV series _Salvage-1._ Scratch that.
You'd better. Harry Broderick hid all of the monohydrazine.
> I plan on buying a 32-foot boat, rigging it with extra stout
> stays and shrouds, fit it with solar cells and electric
> auto-pilot,
And man-powered oars for when the electrical equipment goes out...
> and sail to Honolulu. From Hawaii to Maui,
Umm... Honolulu is on Oahu. Maui is in Hawaii, en route to the
big Island (Hawaii).
> then on to Molokai,
My ex-girlfriend (when I lived in Waikiki) was from Molokai.
She said it's really laid back there. You can even rent a mule
to ride up into the mountains there.
> Oahu, and Kauai.
Skipping Kahoolawe? It's covered with live ammo from the military
testing years ago. Lanai (Dole country - nyuk, nyuk) would be
an interesting stop. Dole gives free pineapple juice to visitors.
During my Honolulu commute, I used to stop by the plant for a
quick juice-stop. They have spigots on the wall that disperse
fresh pineapple juice. Ah, the memories...
> The long stretch to Papeete also has several stops where,
> I have read and I have been told, food may be acquired.
> I'll probably stop at unheard of islands such a Tahiti.
Umm... Papeete is a town ON the island of Tahiti.
> From Papeete I plan on going to Pago Pago, where I hope to
> find a job.
You'd have far better luck landing a computer-related job
in Honolulu/Waikiki. Kaneohe (north side of Oahu) might also
prove lucrative for someone with networking skills.
(Commute to work for hotels in Waikiki, and live near the nude
beaches on the more peaceful north side outside of Kaneohe.)
> If I do not find a job in American Samoa
Ugh. Military. Military. Military.
Your political leanings would get you in big trouble on that island
as soon as you excersized your right of opinion. Mine might fit
right in there, however. [grinning & ducking]
> Or I might skip Fiji and head to Tonga
Tonga is having major economic problems nowadays.
Fiji would be a wiser move.
> In all, sounds like a stupid, dangerous thing to do, don't it?
Only if you aren't familiar with geographic layout. [big grin]
> The actual route is still far from decided.
[sigh of relief] Take a detailed atlas, and a good GPS.
(Wanna buy mine for $200 + s&h? It has NMEA output for autopilot)
> Oh yeah: one minor problem--- I don't have a boat.
Steal Fred's. He's not likely to come chasing after you in Pago Pago
to get it back. [ducking in anticipation of flying debris]
> Not that it matters at all, but I've never done such a thing
> before, and I'll probably die from drowning.
Can you die from drowning? Hmm.
* end smart-ass mode *
> ... Bosnian Bumpersticker: Religion Stopped 25,000 Beating Hearts!
"Stepping on a cockroach stops a beating heart." -Drake Koefoed, Atty.
---
* Origin: Tailgaters Unite! Slower Traffic Keep Right! (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 218/801
|From: Styx Allum
|To: Monty Arch
|Sub: Angels
|Date: 14 Mar 96 23:03:05
EID:f954 206eb860
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 2515a111
REPLY: 1:236/64 2580ac99
>>>Was it wearing pink lace and white slippers with lots of glitter?
> Only if my guardian angel was you.
>>Well, since you're already in a fantasy world; it would be
>>consistent that your fantasies about me would be equally absurd.
> You wish you cross-dressing fairy.
You wish, you cross-worshipping moron.
Leave me out of your perverse fantasies.
I don't share your faith in fairies and other glittering deities.
If your god were such a stud, Mary wouldn't have had to use a
turkey baster to become pregnant.
---
* Origin: Ever wonder why churches have lightning rods? (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 14 Mar 96 13:05:05
EID:f1fb 206e68a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31485fd0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Jim Germiquet 1 god plus 1 god plus wgah'nagl fhtagn.
KS> To treat others as they would want to be treated. No religion or
KS> gods necessary.
JG> But what you just said IS a religion.
Really? Who's being worshipped? Where's the god?
It isn't a religion. It's a simple rule. Are laws religions, Jim?
JG> "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
Said by many people around the world.
JG> To me religion means "a way of life". The teachings of Jesus Christ
I see. Roleplaying is thus a religion. Also being a Federal agent or a
burger-flipper down at McDonald's.
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he drove the Ka-Bar home again.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: [2/2] Your Daily Murder
|Date: 14 Mar 96 13:05:05
EID:2c75 206e68a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31485fd1
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Jim Germiquet [2/2] Your Daily Murder wgah'nagl fhtagn.
JG> Again consider the fear during the Japanese interment. You were
JG> fighting a nation that had sneak attacked you before formally declaring
JG> war. You were also fighting a nation with an ideology of "kamikaze"
The Germans did the same thing to the Poles. Also to the Russians.
JG> attacks and "hari kari", which denotes little respect for life or some
The Germans also did the same thing. Why were they not interned?
JG> of the moral values that Americans understood. How could you trust
JG> people that had come from that type of culture, not to return to their
JG> roots during an attack by their mother land on your own. Would you turn
So. I'm one-quarter Japanese. Does this mean that no one here should trust
me because the Japanese are currently at odds economically with the United
States?
*Every* major nation has at some time or another committed reprehensible
acts. To discriminate against someone on the basis of nationality is
absurd and pointless.
JG> your back on a Japanese person when Japan was at war with your country
JG> ? It was not a case of trying to exterminate the Japanese, but of self
JG> preservation I would think.
Bullshit. Self-preservation was one of the least of the motives behind the
internment of Japanese citizens during the Second World War. Revenge was
a big reason. Racism was a reason.
JG> Look at today's society. We now advocate the murdering of our sick
JG> and elderly. Pull the plug on them, Assissted suicides, and abortions
Psst. "Murder" is defined as the illegal taking of a human life by another.
Suicide is not murder. Abortion is not murder. When will you learn to stop
trying to muddy the issues with emotionalism?
... Yes, my god exists! I carved him from wood myself.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920
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PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: FLOOD
|Date: 14 Mar 96 10:30:00
EID:b204 206e53c0
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Roger Hunter <=-
RH>BS. Thousands witnessed the sun dancing in the sky, an impossible
RH>event. I saw the Statue of Liberty vanish into thin air, an
RH>impossible event.
KW> Does this make David Copperfeild a God, or just a messiah?
Take your pick. Neither term has any referent IMHO.
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO - (303) 421-7186 - V.34 (1:104/251)
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PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Who's who...
|Date: 14 Mar 96 11:35:54
EID:c689 206e5c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63b99b5c
On Mar 11 16:50 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
JH>> I was thinking along the lines of the 'Executive
JH>> directive' from the Andromeda Strain.
NS> Ah, I remember the actor of that running through the levels
NS> trying to turn off the bomb with the little key around his
NS> neck after they realized that the space-spore/virus fed on
NS> energy. Good film.
Right film, wrong flashback...
But the film downplayed it, if you weren't following the dialog you
didn't even know it had happened. But they arranged a nuclear
"accident" at the town where the Strain first appeared.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Big bird
|Date: 14 Mar 96 11:39:48
EID:d5ea 206e5ce0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63b9a060
On Mar 11 16:51 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
NS>> The vacuum at our house makes a lot of noise and sucks up
NS>> legos. Apples do not, yet, that I'm aware of.
JH>> I had an Apple IIe that sucked big time.
JH>> It made a lot of noise too.
NS> Ah, but then you had the improved model, right? I'm a ibm
NS> clone-aholic, I admit.
I am too. I was a MS-DOS user for a number of years before I
became a "collector" of archaic 8-bit machines.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Re: Bible
|Date: 14 Mar 96 11:57:06
EID:3c45 206e5f20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63b9c738
On Mar 09 17:22 96, Brad Jackson of 1:244/108 wrote:
BJ> You have nothing to prove that the bible is false.
What is firmament?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Your Daily Murder
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:04:36
EID:1503 206e6080
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63b9e735
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 14351223
On Mar 10 23:28 96, Rob Burcham of 1:280/76 wrote:
RB> Why was God no longer offended by atrocities and 'sinful'
RB> cultures after biblical times?
What I want to know is why demons don't possess people anymore.
First century Israel was so full of demoniacs that they were
virtually tripping over each other. Every town had at least
one, Jerusalem had shitloads.
And it obviously wasn't the death of Jesus that stopped the
problem either, as the book of Acts is just as full of people
plauged with spooks.
In fact, the problem persisted full throtle up to the last
century, when it suddenly disappeared.
Conclusion: Demons are more scared of Freud than they are of
Christ.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
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SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Avoiding the Question
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:14:08
EID:13e5 206e61c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63b9fda6
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 314205cf
On Mar 09 22:25 96, David Worrell of 1:3615/41.11 wrote:
JG>> Look at a computer in everything it does, it only really
JG>> has 2 choices at a time , on or off. binary.
DW> Are we computers, Jim?
What is the sum of 2 plus 2?
What process do you use to arrive at an answer?
We're all computers, we're just not Turing machines.
The problem is, some of us have an abucus that's
a few beads short of a full string.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Alien pussy
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:13:18
EID:595f 206e89a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bcada7
On Mar 11 16:55 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
JB>> Since I haven't seen the uncensored video, what _is_ there
JB>> between the legs?
JH>> A hairless crack.
NS> I thought we weren't going to pick on `Wilbur' anymore?
'Pick' ?
I thought you said "pluck".
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Adolph Hitler tapdance lookalike
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:15:40
EID:76b4 206e89e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bccad5
On Mar 11 17:18 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
JH>> Your god is in a bottle?
JH>> You worship a genii?
NS> His god is in a bottle, and it's a spirit. I'm tempted to
NS> say Seagram's. But the subject was geniis (plural of genii,
NS> please?)
Hmmm... Genii (or Djinn) IS the plural. If you really want to
make a distinction, then I would capitalize the word when refering
the race collectively and use lower case when refering to an
individual member of the race.
NS> I hope he gets Mustafa or whatever his name was was from
NS> Aladdin. If he get's Barbara Eden, though, I'm switching to his
NS> religion pronto.
You need to read the Arabian Nights (Richard Burton's version is the
only one worth reading). The Djinn don't fuck around. While there
are a few who are benelovant, the vast majority of them are First
Class Nasty Bastards. Even the "good" ones are easily pissed and
can become very unpleasant.
And the females are no less uncivil than their male counterparts.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: drool game
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:27:26
EID:39f3 206e8b60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bccdcb
JH>> You're just jealous that he didn't include you.
JH>> (I feel the same way.)
NS> Me too. Do you think if I sent his post on drool back to
NS> him a hundred times he'd twit me? Or should I just post it
NS> back to him whenever he posts to me? Ah, the possibilities
NS> are endless . . . };)
Sorry... it doesn't count unless you get him to suck up to you
first.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: DROOL GAME
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:30:20
EID:d536 206e8bc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bcd4b4
On Mar 13 06:48 96, Judith Bandsma of 1:372/911 wrote:
JH>> You're just jealous that he didn't include you.
JH>> (I feel the same way.)
JB> I also notice that there are no women on his list. Does he
JB> think we'd be crushed to make his twit list?
He doublessly keeps a second, segregated list for the women.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12
SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: THE COMMANDERS DYING
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:35:40
EID:eb35 206e8c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bcef20
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 3146d453
On Mar 12 17:12 96, Sue Armstrong of 1:246/15 wrote:
SA>> Do they charge for these kits? Somehow, making a living
SA>> from making up fantasy stories seems rather appealing.
JH>> Some may. It's been a couple of years since I sat down and
JH>> enjoyed an issue of the Weekly World News. Usually the
JH>> information on getting one is inside the masthead box which
JH>> is normally on page 2 or 3. It'll be in very tiny print and
JH>> burried along with lots of other uninteresting pieces of
JH>> information like their office hours and the names of their
JH>> lawyer's cats.
SA> Hmm. Maybe I can scan it real quick at the A&P so I don't
SA> have to waste any money on actually buying that rag ..
Sorry.... but if you can't enjoy reading that style of
"creative journalism", it's very unlikely that you will
have any sucess writing it.
I used to enjoy the hell out of the WWN (the only one worth
reading, the Enquirer is nothing but gossip about celebrities).
That was back when I had to do my wash down at the laundymat.
It would take me one wash and two dryer cycles to read the thing
from cover to cover.
I never felt the money spent was "wasted". But I was reading
it as entertainment and not as a source of information.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
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SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Steve Wallis played backwards
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:44:28
EID:ffcf 206e8d80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bd052b
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 14390116
On Mar 13 23:04 96, Rob Burcham of 1:280/76 wrote:
Steve Wallis sezee:
SW> ever here the tune Stairway to Heaven? of course you
SW> have-there's a lyric in there that says "sometimes all
SW> of our thoughts are misgiven."
I sez:
JH>> AT LAST! AT LAST!
JH>> I've found someone who understands Led Zepplin lyrics!
You sez:
RB> Maybe he'll explain the lyrics of Yes next.
He could team up with those other great interpreters of song
lyrics (Glenda Stocks and Charles Manson) and take on the
secret doctrines of Frank Zappa.
(BYW, I have a comeing installment of Our Daily Alien which
deals with Jimi Hendrix's visions of the Space Brothers. Has
anyone seen George Mooth lately?)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:55:16
EID:2ec5 206e8ee0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63bd16a7
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 3141d87e
On Mar 07 09:11 96, Andrew Masten of 1:138/255 wrote:
AM> Clearly many animals have formed symbiotic relationships.
AM> Termites have a organism living in thier digestive tracts
AM> that breaks down wood. I wonder how that worked in the
AM> evolutionary scheme of things. Did the termites start eating
AM> wood and then the organisms came. Or were the organisms
AM> first, then evolved a termite around them?
Have you ever noticed the similarity between ants and termites?
The ant came first.
Then an organism that allowed ants to digest wood in addition to
the other things they eat.
The ants that could exploit this new food supply specialized and
became (over time) termites.
AM> It says nothing about how atoms self assembled into humans.
This is HolySmoke.... the Star Trek echos are down the hall.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
SEEN-BY: 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37
SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Hitler
|Date: 15 Mar 96 04:25:48
EID:2cbf 206f2320
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63c2f690
REPLY: 1:116/19 02A9DF9C
On Mar 12 00:06 96, Al Schroeder of 1:116/19 wrote:
JH>> It may be an un-absolvable sin in that it can't be
JH>> confessed after the fact, but I'm not so sure it gets you
JH>> anything worse than big time in Purgatory.
AS> But they used to remove suicides from Catholic graveyards.
All "notorius" non-communicants are prohibited from receiving
ecclesiastical burial. The emphasis is on 'notorius'. (Canon Law
C.1240) If it's not public knowledge (ie: if it doesn't make
the Church look bad) it's OK...
JH>> I need to get a copy of the new Catechism (Catechism95),
JH>> but I'm pretty sure that NO act is labeled as a sure trip
JH>> to Hell. While the Catholic Church does assume a number of
JH>> powers that Protestants insist are the exclusive priveledge
JH>> of the Divine, I think they let God make the judgement of
JH>> whether a person goes to Hell or not.
AS> But without confession, there can be no forgiveness, in
AS> Catholic eyes.
God forgives, priests absolve. By committing suicide a person dies
in "mortal sin" (as opposed to venal sin). Theologically they're
not really in a different class than "lapsed" Catholics who haven't
done their Easter Communion for a few years.
I can't find a clear-cut statement in canon law that states just how
grave such a condition has to be before Purgatory is no longer an
option. I'll make it a special point to get a copy of the new
Catechism and see how it addresses the issue. I suspect the Church
is still silent on that point even if G. K. Chesterfields is not.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
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SEEN-BY: 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073
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SEEN-BY: 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Angels Or Demons???
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:03:47
EID:3280 206e6060
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 40d24750
REPLY: 3:711/933 314353b0
On 10 Mar 96, Anthony Grigor-Scott wrote:
DJ> We are never told, even by implication, that Adam was not Cain's
DJ> father.
AG> Really? I think Genesis 1:11 is quite explicit, also I John 1:12. And,
Please explain: there is not a word about Cain _or_ Adam in Gen 1:11,
and First John 1:12 doesn't even _exist_. (!??) (In my Bible, First
John 1: ends at verse 10.)
Y'wanna clarify this so's us dummies reading Bibles can follow you?
DJ> Oh, and since Eve was Adam's clade, anyone who was her offspring was
DJ> related to Adam.
AG> Tommy rot!
"Tommy rot?" (*Guffaw*) It looked accurate to me.... No one alive
anywhere on the planet is _not_ a descendant of Eve/Adam, according to
the cretinist philosophy.
AG> Kind regards,
Where is that? In an auto-signing 'footer' file? Following "Tommy
rot!" with "Kind Regards" just seems so... so... well... _facetious_.
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... Fundamentalism (n.): fund = give cash to; a-mentalism = mindlessness
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Angels Or Demons???
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:09:56
EID:f100 206e6120
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 1b3b7a5b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 639a39ff
On 12 Mar 96, J.J. Hitt wrote:
JH> On Mar 04 00:59 96, David Johnston of 1:342/14 wrote:
DJ> The serpent was Adam's sexual member.
JH> It talked?
Eve heard it. You bet it did. Us guys're _still_ paying the price for
that one....
(*grin*)
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... Your logic is flawed; evacuate your premises immediately.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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SEEN-BY: 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Come Together [1]
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:15:58
EID:978b 206e61e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a7a905d0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 639af221
On 12 Mar 96, J.J. Hitt wrote:
JH> [Like so much of Glenda's stuff, this one is fairly lengthy.
JH> But if this one doesn't knock you to the floor in hysterics.
JH> yer already dead - J.J. Hitt]
JH> Here I go again.... I am always finding hidden meanings in the
JH> Here come ol' flat top
JH> He come groovin' up slowly
[cutforbrev]
Yer too late. I figgered that one out 20 years ago...
It refers, all the way through, in symbolic form, to the race of man in
general, with the focus on Western hemisphere man.
All those "he gots"-es are clues to what's being discussed.
"Joo-joo eyeball" refers to his prediliction for magical
perceiving/thinking.
"Toe-jam football" is exactly what it says: the social prominence of
football --it's just a clue to what's being referred to: the race of
man.
"He got hair down to his knees" is a reference to man's evolutionary
history.
"He got Ono sideball" means not only Yoko, but her _race_ as well, the
oriental --partner to the Caucasian in the world.
(And so on.... See, the Beatles were being used to communicate, through
the permissiveness of their songwriting genius, things to the rest of
us. It was a loving _spiritual_ message from a Generic God, not a
specific reference to older religions.)
(*chortle*)
Now, if you really wanna hear some "religious"-symbolic songwriting,
have a listen at Blind Faith's "Sea of Joy" or Emerson, Lake and
Palmer's "Just Lend Your Love To Me Tonight."
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... Speed doesn't kill, running into slow things kills.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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SEEN-BY: 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Come Together [2]
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:28:05
EID:978b 206e6380
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 26320430
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 639af221
We oughtta compare these line-for-line! What I hear is different from
what you hear! (*grin*)
> He got walrus gum-boot
The beatles themselves. Reference is to the song with the "I am the
Walrus" line in it, hence referring to themselves and the gum-boot is
the same as "gumshoe" (detective), but since it's English, and since
it's 'more blunt and forceful than a shoe,' it's "boot" and not "shoe."
> He got Ono sideboard
Side_ball_. dealt with in other message.
> He one spinal cracker
He one spinal _t_racker --he's always tracking the connections, even
those inside himself, "tracking" perceptions through the spinal cord
into the brain.
> He got feet down below his knee
("Just in case you're still confused, this means "mankind."")
> Hold you in his armchair
> You can feel his disease
Hold you in his arms, _yeah_,
You can feel his disease...
Let mankind embrace you, you can feel how diseased he is in general.
> He roller coaster
Ups and downs, ups and downs, the vicissitudes of mankind's live and his
susceptibility to emotional oscillation.
> He got early warning
Science opened mankind to enough physical truth to know before it was
too late that....
> He got muddy water
We've become pulluted, and....
> He one Mojo filter
Man has become overpopulated. (I hear this as "he _want_ Mojo filter."
A Mojo filter is a contraception device of some sort, it's also, at a
deeper level, another reference to evolution, since "filtering" the
sexual output of the race (by "filtering" who gets preggies and who
doesn't) equals "filtering" its future evolution through mankinds
choices inregards to who gets preggies from Mojo-ing and who doesn't.
(Don't you _know_ what "MoJo" means? As in: "I got my MoJo workin'."
> He say "One and one and one is three"
That means one man and one woman, with the obvious consequence of three:
a family: the purpose of the physical part of existence.
> Got to be good looking 'cause he's so hard to see
Need more be said? Both the spirit in/of mankind is not only hard to
see, but also we, the Beatles, are sucking you in by making you work for
the right interpretation.
> Come together right now over me
The only clear line in the song.
They have first defined what they're talking about (mankind in general),
and now, lastly, they tell us what they want it to do: come together,
and quit wasting time; listen to _us_ ("over me") and make the choice to
cease war and all those other nasty devisive things that mankind is
prone to do.
JH> Seems to me that since the Will polarity has been denied that it is
JH> fitting that the church is considered female, and that women could
JH> take it upon themselves to help restore the Will and prepare
JH> themselves like as a Bride to Christ, without spot or blemish.
Hildegarde von Bingen would probably concur with you.
JH> meanings. I am pretty sure of who ole flat top is.
"Ole flat top" is the race of mankind. The symbolism is of our low-
browed, less domed-cranium forebears. (*Grin*) Sorry, but for every
prophet-interpreter, there's another prophet-interpreter with a
different interpretation. That's what makes religion so much fun:
there's _always_ a disagreement to watch. Watching it evolve is almost
as much fun as watching Science evolve.
At least we might agree that the Beatles were _some_ form of prophet.
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... And God said: E = «mvý - Zeý/r ...and there *WAS* light!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Let me guess(Wrong)
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:55:22
EID:680d 206e66e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2730a442
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 63a83b5e
On 13 Mar 96, J.J. Hitt wrote:
JH> What is firmament?
Italian construction term.
It's what you get when ce-a-ment hardens....
(*cackle! couldn't resist*)
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmph! Thought so...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: LIBRARIES
|Date: 14 Mar 96 12:58:29
EID:63b6 206e6740
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 54c6521f
On 12 Mar 96, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> we can just die. There is no logical justification for a lake of
RH> fire. It's just the human wish for vengeance, no matter how delayed,
RH> projected onto a "merciful" God.
AS> That might be one reason I myself am rather disturbed by the idea of
AS> Hell,
AS> and like many, wonder if an actual extinction of the soul is what's
AS> implied. Many sincere Christians believe that. I myself am not sure.
RH> Yes. The Jehova's Witlesses believe that. I think John Brawley would
RH> agree with it too. Even I could accept it if I HAD to believe in a
RH> God.
(?) I don't think an extinction of the soul is anywhere _near_ as
trivial an event as that implies. To me, to make a soul "extinct," the
Mind of the Universe would have to deliberately construct a complex
quantum-nonlocal vibrational pattern (after-death) that was the exact
opposite in every respect to the pattern of the soul in question, so
that the two could be overlaid and "cancel out" like an electrical
signal cancels with its opposite polarity to "go to ground" and
permanently disappear.
In other words, I do think it, yes, but I think is is WILDLY the
exception rather than the rule. Almost _nobody_ is _100_percent_
worthless.
The Fundies tend to take advantage of the idea that it happens at all,
by trying to tell you that it happens when and from what _they_ (the
Fundies) say it will.
Balderdash. God's _efficient_ (one might say "lazy," if "lazy" and
"least energetic ground state" were equivalent in meaning), and He's
highly unlikely to exert Himself that much, to rub out some soul unless
He absolutely has to....
JB : jbrawley@toadnet.org
: john.brawley@p1.f9.n8012.z86.toadnet.org
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 Toadnet: 86:8012/9.1
... Its a dogma-eat-dogma world!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: JIM GERMIQUET
|Sub: dinosaurs?
|Date: 13 Mar 96 21:46:00
EID:5d8e 206dadc0
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21f8
TID: GE 1.2
Jim;
JG>-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> AG>> Not even though human and dinosoar footprints are found
JG> AG>> together.
JG> MG>> Please reference ONE instance of this happening. I will
JG> MG>> research it and reply on why it was a fake.
JG> MG>> Do it now and prepare to look foolish.
JG> JG> Dinosaurs weren't allowed in the Garden , and by the time Adam
JG> JG> and Eve had eaten from the forbidden tree, the dinosaurs had
JG> JG> become extinct :-)
JG> MG> You claim that humans and dinsaurs had been found together. I asked
JG> MG> you to reference this. Instead, you come up with this nonsense.
JG> MG> Now, once again, I ask you to reference the "fact" that they were
JG> MG> found together at any time int he Earth's history.
JG>First of it wasn't I that claimed human and dinosaur footprints were
JG>found together, that was a response to another user. However I did here
JG>that in some riverbank they found such prints. The statement I heard
to
JG>contradict that, was that the smaller footprints could not be positively
JG>identified as "human" footprints.
Well, i'm looking here at a picture of human and dino tracks in a
riverbed side by side. It was taken on Sunday July 11, 1971 on the
bed of the Paluxy river near Glen Rose ,Texas by a Dr. Dougherty.
Above that is a picture of Dr. Burdick, a geologist, with a couple
of plaster casts showing dino and human (very large) footprints.
Hmmm. 5 toes, all out front, looks human.
Oh, and there is mention of a Dr. Fields of Ozark College stating
that he and his team believe that they are genuine," because of
pressure ridges and other various characteristics..."
Oh, and then I recall the Acambero collection. A 20,000 piece
collection of stone works showing humans in combat with dinos. Teeth
found inside one of the statues were identified by a paleontologist
at the American Museum of Natural History as coming from 'equus
conversidans owen- an extinct Ice Age horse.
FWIW
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * It's only a being ... only a being ... only a
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: JIM GERMIQUET
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 14 Mar 96 08:18:00
EID:f3b5 206e4240
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21f9
TID: GE 1.2
Jim;
JG>-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> JG> Of course "god" is perfect. That is in the "definition" of him
JG> JG> silly :-)
JG> MG> Then why does he allow weather patterns to cause crops to fail and
JG> MG> starve innocent people.
JG>Why not ? Take a look around you NOBODY lives forever. Again what a
JG>crowded world we would live in if it did.
The theory of overpopulation is a farse. Think about it.
JG>I also believe that the spirit of God is able to affect the spirits of
JG>people. I believe that is why he affected the Pharoahs spirit to not
let
JG>the Israelites go until the occurence of a natural even like an earth
JG>quake that allowed the Israelies to escape, while drowning they persuing
JG>Egyptian armies. Had god not done so, would have been to allow the
JG>Egyptians
JG>to continue their dominance. God doesn't like to "make" people do anything
JG>and he made an exception in this case.
There is not a shred of physical archeological evidence to back this
story up. God can cause famine, floods, pillars of fire, etc. in this
story, but cannot produces an earthquake when he wants it?
JG>For the rest of us, we are free to
JG>choose whatever actions we wish, including murder. However those who
JG>listen
JG>to god may be able to avoid such attempts if they here the voice of
JG>god
JG>and take a different route as the wise man and Jesus parents did 2000
JG>years
JG>ago.
JG> JG> Are you going to blame "god" for the choices that people make ?
JG> JG> WHether it be not watching their children or not teaching
JG> MG> Yes. God is perfect. He has no need to give us free will, but
being
JG> MG> perfect, he should be able to without the harmful side effects.
Tell
JG> MG> your god to get with it and stop the horsing around. People here
JG>need
JG> MG> help.
Omniscient, omni-present, all-powerful,.....nope, no perfect in
there.
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * This tagline is being.
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:10:00
EID:2ac9 206db140
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21fa
TID: GE 1.2
DAn;
DC>-> On 03-07-96 09:30, Andrew Masten got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> Why did you godling tell his desciples to take up the sword
DC> DC> prior to that engagement?
DC> AM>
DC> AM> He didn't tell them to use it.
DC>Isn't that just convenient: "Hey, guys, we're taking over the
DC>Temple. Don't forget your swords! Just don't use them...."
Reminds me of the Clinton Admin. and their safer bullets.(G)
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to be.
--- WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: JIM GERMIQUET
|Sub: Kenneth is atheist
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:12:00
EID:8f01 206db180
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21fb
TID: GE 1.2
Jim;
JG>-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> JG> What is wrong with being simple minded ? I like the idea? The
JG> JG> simpler the better. WHy try to make things complicated if they
JG> JG> don't have to be.
JG> MG> The universe is a complex thing. Nothing about it or in it is
JG>simple.
JG> MG> simple thinking results in black and white answers, none of
JG>which are
JG> MG> satisfactory.
JG>The computer seems to be a complicated thing. But all its choices boil
JG>down to simple "yes/no" "on/off".
Yes. So much for Occam's razor. Every post in my packet is from
you.(g)
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Being Halted!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: BRAD JACKSON
|Sub: 1 god
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:21:00
EID:4a59 206db2a0
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21fc
TID: GE 1.2
Brad;
BJ> -=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Jim Germiquet <=-
BJ> JG>Tell me some of the ways people should act toward each other.
BJ> JG>What is it GOOD for people to do ?
BJ> KS> To treat others as they would want to be treated. No religion or
BJ> KS> gods necessary.
BJ> Hi Karl.
BJ> If we follow that reasoning like some people are we are headed
BJ> for big trouble. They have taken God out the schools some
BJ> religions are not following Gods Word.
Whose God are you refering to? Those poor little Hindu
children having the Christian God shoved down their throats
every morning. Please define 'GOD's Word'.
BJ> My goodness this just
BJ> shows that if you take God away from us this world is done for,
BJ> sooner then later. Karl why do people think they can live with
BJ> out God?
BJ>Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not
BJ>live by [bread alone], but by every word that proceedeth out of the
BJ>mouth of God.
BJ>Take the bible down from the shelf, open the pages and pray for
BJ>guidence. Begin to read God's wonderful word. I will leave you
BJ>with this plan until next time Karl.
BJ>Brad
Why do you assume we haven't? Been there, done it, did it, Atlanta.
BJ>... John 10:30 I and my father are one.
...Me;now: I and my father are one.
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Back Up My Being? I Can't Find The Shadow!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: BRAD JACKSON
|Sub: Angels
|Date: 14 Mar 96 08:20:00
EID:3c0f 206e4280
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21fd
TID: GE 1.2
Brad;
BJ> -=> Quoting Dawn Kleuser to Karl Schneider <=-
BJ> DK> Aw, c'mon, Karl, yer wreckin' my fun...
BJ>Hi Dawn.
BJ> Does this mean you don't believe that there are angels? Have
BJ>you read your bible lately?
You really are too much!
BJ> I don't know if I can count the number
BJ>of times God sent his angels. So I would think if God knows they
BJ>are around and they serve him, we can take it to be true. For God's
BJ>word is true. You believe in Jesus don't you Dawn?
Which Jesus. The mythical one or the historic one?
BJ>1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
BJ>godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
BJ>seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the
BJ>world, received up into glory.
BJ>This verse covers more then one topic for you Dawn. One God One
BJ>Baptism and One Salvation.
Words of men.
BJ>Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
BJ>other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Or so we would like you to believe.
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * It's only a being ... only a being ... only a
--- WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: BRAD JACKSON
|Sub: Apostles
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:38:00
EID:a0f6 206db4c0
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21fe
TID: GE 1.2
Brad;
BJ>Hi Kenneth.
BJ> Steve seems to be a lost soul. I think it is a christains duty
BJ>to try and help the lost sheep.
Maybe you think to much. Words of men.
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Press "+" to be.
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: Tagline
|Date: 13 Mar 96 22:51:00
EID:610d 206db660
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f21ff
TID: GE 1.2
KW;
KW>
KW>---
KW> * OLXWin 1.00a * There is only one Path to Divinity, and they are all
it.
Niche.(g)
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * --B-E+I-N-G--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub: records
|Date: 13 Mar 96 23:02:00
EID:3d19 206db840
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f2200
TID: GE 1.2
Michael;
MH>-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> MH> MH> The resurrection of Jesus was an EVENT!! It was not a claim,
MH> MH> MH> such as the claims made by Koresh or Jim Jones.
MH> MH>
MH> MH> KDM> It is a *claim* of an event, Mike.
MH> MH>
MH> MH> And well-attested to by what evidence we have available -- mainly
MH> MH>the fact that people who lived very close in time and space to the
MH> MH>event believed it. That is, those most in a position to know it
MH> MH> believed wasn't true it was true.
MH> KDM> Then why are there no records saying this?
MH> Huh? What do you think the New Testament is? That it exists at all
MH> attests to this fact.
The New Testament is a collection of books, the earliest of which was
written 60 years at best after the fact. So, tell me about FDR.
Or this; The God Bacchus:
1.Born of a virgin on Dec. 25th
2.performed miracles.
3.One was the act of changing water into wine.
4.rode in a triumohal procession on an ass.
5.put to death by the Titans, rose again on March 25th.
6.Referred to as "The Savior".
Makes you go...Hmmm.
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * If this were an actual tagline, it would be.
--- WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: KENNETH MCABEE
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 14 Mar 96 08:26:00
EID:dd8b 206e4340
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f2201
TID: GE 1.2
HELLO KENNETH!;
KM> KD> HOWEVER, there are many proposed supreme beings and afterlives.
So
KM>many
KM> KD> that yours is not the statistical best bet.
KM>Your right, there are many many false religions in the world, excuse
me if
KM>I have to think that mine is not.
Hmm. According to my Scripture, CHRISTIANITY is a FALSE religion!
KM> KD>> Look at it this way - if a Muslim stopped believing, your god is
KM>still
KM> KD>> a logical option, right?
KM> KM>> I have seen Muslim turn from the Koran and start believing in the
KM> KM>> Bible. To me, they are believing in a false religion, God is the
KM>ONLY
KM> KM>> option, which makes him the logical one as well.
The God of Abraham IS the God of Islam. Bismilah.
KM> KD> I'm equally unlikely ever to adhere to
KM> KD> either faith, as both oppress women.
KM>Your opinion again....
Agreed. Depends on the sect.
KM>Sorry Karen, I will not step back from the Bible. I already have an open
KM>mind, and do not see any other options either it's the God of the Bible
or
KM>no God at all. You look for logic that indicates something else, I'll
stick
KM>with the truth of the Bible.
Open mind. So much for truth. Or is it ignorance? What do you know of
other religions to call them false?
KM> KD> back from the Bible. You can't even engage in a thought
KM>experiment.
KM>Not can't, won't. Why? Don't see the need? Why bother considering something
KM>that I do not believe in? I could spend the time considering something
that
KM>I do believe in.
Then why are you here?
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to be.
--- WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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|From: CHRIS CAMPBELL
|To: ROGER HUNTER
|Sub: LIBRARIES
|Date: 14 Mar 96 08:26:00
EID:96b5 206e4340
MSGID: 1:377/77 493f2202
TID: GE 1.2
Roger;FWIW
RH> -=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> RH> we can just die. There is no logical justification for a lake of
RH> RH> fire. It's just the human wish for vengeance, no matter how delayed,
RH> RH> projected onto a "merciful" God.
RH> AS> That might be one reason I myself am rather disturbed by the idea
of
RH> AS> Hell,
RH> AS> and like many, wonder if an actual extinction of the soul is what's
RH> AS> implied. Many sincere Christians believe that. I myself am not sure.
RH>Yes. The Jehova's Witlesses believe that. I think John Brawley would
RH>agree with it too. Even I could accept it if I HAD to believe in a
RH>God.
The Egyptians were quite clear about the possible extinction of the
soul in a fiery lake. Hmmm, wonder where the Jews and Christians got
that idea from?
---
* OLX 2.2 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Being Halted!
--- WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: update
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:29:25
EID:e2af 206e33a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 57538982
On (12 Mar 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Marilyn Burge...
JB> What a balls up mess this has been made into. Don't people
JB> ever think about what they are doing?
She shouldn't even know where the baby is. This is a clear-cut
case of the only humane decision being total relinquishment so
the little girl can finish out her childhood without a constant
reminder of what she has lost.
You're right; people don't even stop and think about the conse-
quences of their decisions.
... Guns don't kill. Hyper-velocity projectiles do.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FLOOD [2]
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:43:28
EID:4037 206e3560
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 28a4b660
REPLY: 1:116/19 051220A0
On (09 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Roger Hunter...
RH> Wagon? Horse?
AS> Luke 24:13. "That very same day, two of them were on their
AS> way to a village called Emmaus, seven miles from Jerusalem,
AS> and they were talkign together about all that had happened.
AS> Now as they talked this over, Jesus himself came up and
AS> WALKED by their side" and Luke 24:28, towards the end of the
AS> walk, "When they drew near to the village to which they were
AS> going, He made as it to go on". Certainly doesn't SOUND
AS> wounded, does He?
This scripture is pretty conclusive evidence that the story is
myth. You can't have it both ways. Either he felt no pain
despite having nails driven completely through both feet, and
could therefore walk the ten miles, or the same forces were
at work to make that possible that were available to him while
he was on the cross and he felt no pain and could not or would
not suffer death from that. These miracles of convenience are
highly suspect to me: make him human enough to suffer death
and pain during the scourging and crucifixion, but got enough
to walk ten miles afterwards.
Doesn't that sound just the LEAST BIT fishy to YOU? It sure
does to me.
... HolySmoke: Fundy roadkill on the Information Superhighway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GAY LOVE [2]
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:51:12
EID:759c 206e3660
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 22d8ec52
REPLY: 1:116/19 051238A6
On (09 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Rob Burcham...
AS> But pack mentality helps the dogs survive. Pigeons' homing
AS> instinct is doubtless good at refinding their nest. Geese...?
AS> There's probably some reason. And humans' belief in the
AS> afterlife is based on..?
Our higher brain simply has a hard time accepting the unpleasant.
We have no evidence that other animals have enough sense of self
to even equate the death they witness around them with their own
inevitable demise. We make that connection and find it a disturb-
ing thought. So, in order to maintain our mental equillibrium, we
put a happy-face on it, and call it an afterlife. OF COURSE it has
survival qualities; without that happy-face, we would be obsessed
with the subject of our own demise, thereby quickening that event.
... HolySmoke: A drive by shooting on the Information Superhighway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Question
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:55:53
EID:eea2 206e36e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 5a77d151
REPLY: 1:116/19 05127F1E
On (09 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Rob Burcham...
RB> I normally don't divulge such information but I feel strangely
RB> compelled to do so... I'm a bi-sexual, Transylvanian, vegetarian,
RB> non-smoking, loves-to-dance, near-sighted dwarf.
AS> RB>
RB> And, oh yeah... a Republican.
AS> Rob, I had no idea you were really Danny Devito.
AS> Wait, he's happily married to Rhea whatshername...so you're Devito's
AS> Transylvanian half-brother, right?
Rhea Perlman DeVito, I presume. Though I doubt she uses his last
name professionally.
... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ÛÛÛÛÛ°°°°°ÛÛÛÛÛ
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Who's who...
|Date: 14 Mar 96 06:57:11
EID:928b 206e3720
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 f58a7abe
REPLY: 1:116/19 0512AF2A
On (09 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Lon S. Mabon...
AS> LSM> Interesting origin lines here, folks. Keep tabs on those
AS> LSM> posting times, Fredric...this just might be a new
AS> LSM> 'staal' alias:
AS> Jim. Enough games.
You may have noticed the bit I posted last Sunday about the real
Long Mabon and his floundering "organization." Well, yesterday's
Oregonian had a real doozie in it. Gordon Smith used his own money
to run in the primary for Packwood's vacated Senate seat. He spent
about $2 million and lost the general election to a Democrat, Ron
Wyden. He has since announced that he won't vie for Hatfield's
Senate seat, which will be vacated when he retires at the end of
this term. He says that if he can't be Wyden, he can't beat
anybody (not a very flattering a thing for a Christian to publicly
say, but he said it). Other news items have suggested that Smith
might have beaten Wyden if he had distanced himself earlier from
the OCA's endorsement. He did say in the Voter's Pamphlet that he
did not share their views or agenda, but the endorsement made the
front page of the Oregonian, which is hard to miss on the
newsstands, and not every voter reads the Voter's Pamphlet. Then,
of course, there was the time lag; he didn't IMMEDIATELY
repudiate that endorsement, which is what he should have done.
The Republican Party managed to talk Smith into rethinking his
position regarding that seat and promised to bankroll him for the
race. Anyway, Lonnie announced in the Oregonian yesterday that he
was running AGAINST Smith in the primaries for the Hatfield seat.
I'm assuming Lonnie is using OCA money for that little venture.
I'm not sure how legal it is for him to collect money for one
purpose and use it for another, but that's what he's doing. If the
membership of that organization has shrunk as much as all the news
stories suggest, he'll bleed the OCA dry in nothing flat, and
we'll be rid of 'em. Breaks my heart.
... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A Fair & Just God
|Date: 14 Mar 96 07:11:33
EID:883b 206e3960
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 8bf95614
REPLY: 1:116/19 0274B452
On (10 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Rick McFarlane...
RM> I fear the contoversy of capital punishment is about to
RM> sidetrack your argument here. The argument itself, about
RM> leading by example, does not depend on society having a right
RM> to kill. Using that as the case in point might just lead to
RM> misunderstanding.
AS> Yes, but I think I need to lead with the strongest
AS> prohibition we have, that I think God can defy. It doesn't
AS> only involve capitol punishment of convicted killers, it
AS> involves the right to self-defense and policing itself (the
AS> state can have a SWAT team shoot a sniper who is about to
AS> kill hundreds, for instance.)
RM> Killing murderers is the most dramatic (and controversial)
RM> example, but, if we imprison kidnappers, or fine embezzelers,
RM> we as a society, are behaving in exactly the same way that we
RM> found objectionable in the individual we are punishing, and
RM> no one finds that controversial at all. Of course, society is
RM> not an individual, so the code of conduct that we expect
RM> individuals to submit to doesn't hold for society and,
RM> ultimately, everyone, including those that oppose capital
RM> punishment, understand that.
AS> Exactly. Humans in the aggregate are able to do things that are
AS> reprehensible to an individual, and nobody but a total anarchist
AS> believes differently. And that is just a collection of human beings,
AS> not a Being on a totally different order of reality, who further
AS> created the reality in which we dwell.
RM> And God is not a man.
AS> Indeed not. (Although He may have been one for a while, if my beliefs
AS> are right...a descent into humanness.)
Since this side conversation essentially deals with my earlier
post, I'll leave it intact and post some clarification. The
Government is US. WE are the Government. What it does, we do, both
individually and collectively. It is easy for us to forget that.
We, both individually and collectively, have the right to protect
ourselves. No doubt about that. And, one of the obvious ways we
have of protecting ourselves is to imprison those who would be a
danger to us. I have no moral qualms about that. In fact, as long
as we have both the means and the power to imprison for the
purpose of protecting the innocent from the predatory, there is no
reason for us to go any further by killing the predator in cold
blood (which is what capital punishment is).
Now, regarding the second point of cops killing snipers in order
to save hundreds, etc. I recognize the fact that others do not
share my ethical viewpoint. I also recognize the fact that we must
all, in the final analysis, live according to our own convictions.
I do not attempt to influence other people's consciences. In fact,
I think it is wrong to do so.
I'll make a little parable so you can see my point. A man doesn't
believe in owning firearms. His daughter is being threatened by a
predatory rapist. He talks to me at great length about how scared
he is, both for himself and for his daughter. I talk him into
getting a firearm to protect his family. His 10-year-old son, who
has never been around firearms before, accidentally shoots and
kills a playmate.
According to my way of looking at things, *I* am responsible for
tbe death of that playmate, just as surely as if I had been the
one to pull the trigger. If I had not talked the man into
purchasing a gun, the playmate would be alive. Now, that in no way
absolves the man of his responsibility for not properly training
his son in firearms safety, nor does it absolve the rapist for
making it necessary for the man to purchase a gun.
It is entirely possible for more than one person to be culpable
for a tragic event, just as a team may be responsible for the
rescue of one mountaineer.
So, I do not and cannot make the decision for anybody else about
their career choice (in this case, the decision to be a cop). That
is their choice. They must live by their own lights, not by mine.
While I could not in good conscience take up a career that put me
in a position to take the life of another, I respect their
decision to do exactly that. It is theirs to make, not mine.
The above paragraph explains rather poignantly why I can be both
pro-choice and anti-abortion, btw. I do not live by other people's
lights, nor do I feel any need for them to live by mine.
Do I think the world would be a better place without violence?
That's a no-brainer. OF COURSE it would. That's why I am a
pacifist. I cannot control the actions of others, but I can
control my own actions. I can also refrain from saying anything
that justifies in others those actions that I deem to be against
the best interest of mankind as a whole.
The Christophers said it well:
It is better to light one little candle than
to curse the darkness.
Amen.
... A feature is a bug with seniority.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A Fair & Just God
|Date: 14 Mar 96 20:45:27
EID:883b 206ea5a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 dd287b58
REPLY: 1:116/19 0274B452
On (10 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Rick McFarlane...
RM> And God is not a man.
AS> Indeed not. (Although He may have been one for a while, if my beliefs
AS> are right...a descent into humanness.)
No, but he apparently, in your view, holds us to a higher standard
than he holds himself, and that is the issue. He tells us not to
kill, yet he commits wholesale slaughter of human beings himself,
just because he's pissed at the way they choose to worship.
THAT is the issue. In other words, he sends us to hell for
eternity for deeds that he commits with impunity.
That is the ultimate hypocracy -- especially since he has so
many more choices than we do, being omni-* and all.
... ... The Bill of Rights - void where prohibited by law.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A FAIR AND JUST GOD
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:29:34
EID:e211 206eb3a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 878c566c
REPLY: 1:116/19 02A9AE28
On (13 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Marilyn Burge...
AS> MB> I really don't know what that has to do with "do as I say and
AS> MB> not as I do." Do you? Aren't you just a little off the
AS> MB> beaten path?
AS> The idea of Jesus becoming one of us to endure the limitations we
AS> ourselves are under? I don't think so. You say God is unjust and a
AS> double minded, hypocritical murderer. But when (in my view) God was
AS> incarnated as a man, He went around preaching "turn the other cheek"
AS> and "he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "forgive your
AS> enemy seventy times seven". And yet Jesus was beaten, flogged,
AS> eventually executed. It is not the mark of a hypocrite to endure
AS> what you say He is forcing on others.
But in no way does he do that. He wiped out whole tribes because
he didn't like the god they worshipped, even though he clearly
recognizes in the Ten Commandments that he is not the only god.
That is hardly the actions of somebody who turns the other cheek
or forgives seventy times seven. He's either a hypocrite, or
a god with a VERY short memory when it comes to his own ethical
shortcomings.
AS> MB> Utter nonsense! I don't make ethical boundaries for my children
AS> that MB> I was unwilling to adhere to myself; your god did. Again
AS> and again. MB> He was a petty tyrant who did't know right from wrong
AS> for thousands MB> of years, yet condemened people to eternal torment
AS> for doing much MB> less harm than he did. He's an asshole, and
AS> hardly anybody to be MB> respected by anyone.
AS> Hmmm. Do you draw, Marilyn? When you teach a child to draw, or for
AS> that matter, ANY person, you start with having them draw real
AS> things. They need to learn perspective, how things truly look, how
AS> they hang together, some semblence of anatomy, to make it really
AS> hang together. Now, I am fairly good at freehand drawing. And yet,
AS> many of the abstract
AS> artists...Picasso, Mondrian, Klee, that crowd...drew pictures that
AS> look like a five year old can do them. Deceptively so. Picasso could
AS> draw a MUCH more realistic picture than I. He went through the
AS> apprenticeship of learning how to draw realistically and well, and
AS> then learned to discard it to follow a greater law of composition
AS> and artistic vision. It's not that Picasso doesn't know enough to
AS> draw an artistic picture. It was
AS> because he was a master and had gone beyond that.
AS> But you still don't, even if the artist is to be an abstract
AS> painter, initially teach someone to do abstract art. They must learn
AS> the
AS> fundamentals of perspective, composition, etc. before they have the
AS> freedom to follow their artistic integrity further. Similarly with
AS> poetry. One is taught the metrical forms of poetry, and is
AS> criticized for half-rhymes and breaks in the metre...but if you look
AS> at Shakespeare, you see many examples of breaking such poetic rules
AS> and restrictions.
AS> It is not that he didn't know poetry magnificently. He
AS> knew when to dispense with the rules to make a greater artistic
AS> statement.
AS> In much the same way, God is a master. He MUST allow death to
AS> allow life to prosper, at least under the present paradigm of
AS> nature. There may even be times, given His viewpoint outside time,
AS> where some need to die that more may live later on. As a policeman
AS> shoots a sniper to avoid him from shooting more innocents. We have
AS> neither the wisdom or the
AS> experience to dispense with such prohibitions as we have.
I hardly equate drawing with "thou shalt not kill, or if you do, you'll
burn for eternity," now, do you? Are you really that ethically pliable?
I certainly hope not, for your family's sake.
AS> MB> As for my pacifism, I don't insist that mesquitoes adhere to my
AS> MB> standards. I know they are mesquitoes and have their own way of
AS> MB> life. And, I certainly don't lay down standards for them then
AS> MB> in the next breath flaunt those standards in their face whilst
AS> MB> punishing them for eternity for not adhering.
AS> (Amused smile.) No, you just swat them.
AS> No, you don't insist that mesquitoes adhere to your
AS> standards for your ethical conduct. You DO insist that they adhere
AS> to YOUR standards for THEIR conduct. In other words, if too many
AS> buzz you, you will spray them, or use a bug-killer---you will KILL
AS> them, something you would not do to something you considered an
AS> equal, no matter how
AS> annoying. You have a different standard for their behavior than you
AS> do for yours.
But I haven't instructed THEM not to kill, now, have I? See the
substantive difference? I certainly hope so, for the safety of
your neighbors.
AS> I don't think God considers us mosquitoes. But I don't think He
AS> considers us equals, either. Beloved animals, perhaps, the way a
AS> game keeper keeps wild animals in the preserve. (And you will notice
AS> sometimes game wardens will thin the herds to allow greater health
AS> for the whole. He will kill a few...even might allow others to
AS> hunt...to maintain the health of the herd as a whole. And some of
AS> the herd might regard the game warden as a monster, even though he
AS> loves them dearly, makes sure that poachers don't decimate the
AS> population.
I see. HE can kill all the human beings he wants to, but he WE
kill even one, we are doomed forever. Nice, consistent, well-managed
god you've got there, Al. I hope you're proud of him. I certainly
wouldn't be proud of any god of mine that had lesser standards than
my own. I would insist on one I could at least look up to with a
certain amount of desire to emulate his behavior. Your god, I dunno,
if I emulated HIS behavior, I'd end up on death row. Not a nice guy,
I'd say.
AS> But he doesn't expect them to adhere to his ethical standards...he
AS> doesn't expect predators to stop killing, or birds to act
AS> courageously, or a fieldmouse to get an education and learn. But if
AS> the predators make too many inroads into the birds, he will thin the
AS> population of the
AS> predators, for the good of all, even ultimately for the good of the
AS> predators.
AS> MB> I would think even you could see that qualitative difference.
AS> "Even" me?? I argue that ethical standards that God imposes on
AS> Man need not be the same one He imposes on Himself. You argue that
AS> we don't force our ethical standards on mosquitoes. You're very
AS> right. I agree completely. Just like God does not put the ethical
AS> standards FOR HIMSELF on us, but the ones that are meant for
No, he certainly doesn't. We are far above his standards for his own
behavior. His standards for his own behavior are befitting of Adolph
himself, I'd say.
AS> HUMANITY on us. As I have said before...He did not say, "I shall not
AS> kill". He said "thou shall not
AS> kill". For God not being able to dispense death would cause far more
AS> misery in the long run, unless creation is made anew.
Righto! Do as I say, not as I do. Hardly a way to garner respect.
My standards are so much higher than his, I can't see him for dust.
AS> ... The wrong way always seems the most reasonable course.
Especially when Jehovah is pointing the way, apparently.
AS> --- TSX-BBS (Multi-line 32-bit BBS)
AS> * Origin: The Nashville Exchange BBS 615-383-0727 (1:116/19)
... Innuendo: An Italian homosexual.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: creationists
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:10:00
EID:f20e 206ea940
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940438F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Aaron Boyden to Michael Hardy <=-
Let me first say that in discussing the creation/evolution controversy,
I am taking neither side. I am merely discussing issues.
> But why is it that there are people who are well-
> educated in
> disciplines where evolution is assumed, who hold
> degrees from
> prestigious non-sectarian institutions, who reject
> evolution if
> evolution is so obviously true?
AB> I have a suggestion on that score. About 1% of the population suffers
AB> from some form of schizophrenia. There are in the neighborhood of half
AB> a million professional scientists in this country. As several forms
of
AB> schizophrenia tend to manifest later in life, and they are often
AB> associated with otherwise high intelligence, there is no reason to
AB> expect the proportion of schizophrenic scientists to be much lower than
AB> the proportion of schizophrenics in general. There should thus be a
few
AB> thousand of them.
AB> I don't wish to state that this is the explanation of Lester or
AB> Bohlin; I don't know anything about them. The more important point
is
AB> that there are so many people with Ph.D.'s these days that it'd be
AB> surprising if you didn't find a large (not proportionately but
AB> absolutely) number of crackpots, even apart from those who are
AB> clinically insane. Thus, I find the question of why mainstream
AB> biologists don't take creationism at all seriously much more
AB> enlightening than the question of why one or two isolated individuals
AB> do; there are too many possible answers to the latter question that
AB> have nothing to do with the truth or reasonability of the theory.
You make a good point. But could the answer not be that evolution is
simply accepted as fact among most scientists, and hence is taught as
such in most college science curricula, thus making it kind of an
orthodoxy that only a heretic would dare doubt?
Having read some critiques of evolution, I find that the case for it is
nowhere near as sound as many people -- even, apparently, many
scientists -- seem to assume. I'm not talking about critiques
from those who insist Genesis is literally true, but from those
who do adopt a theistic worldview without necessarily insisting on a
literal reading of Genesis.
It seems evident that many scientists who are atheists insist
evolution must be a fact, because their philosophical world view
depends upon there being no God. (I realize that not all scientists are
atheists -- I am speaking here only of those who are.)
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: message for MB
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:20:00
EID:bc21 206eaa80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404390
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Anonymous to Michael Hardy <=-
Please forward this to Marilyn, as I'm in her twit filter.
An>
An> =======================================================================
An> = Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/40.666)
An> =======================================================================
An> = Area: HOLYSMOKE
An> Date: 09 Mar 96 22:57:20 Public
An> From: David Worrell
An> To: Michael Hardy
An> Subject: legislation
An> =======================================================================
An> = 07 Mar 96 20:32, Michael Hardy wrote to Tom Hart:
TH>> Have you called/written to your gov't reps. yet to tell them you
TH>> do not want religion legislated and to repleal the current
TH>> religious legislation?
MH> Like the religion-based laws against stealing other peoples'
MH> property? No, I don't think we should repeal those laws.
An> Are you claiming Hammurabi was a god, Mikey? So much for you being a
An> Christian.
No, I'm obviously not claiming that. Why do so many atheists think
there is some kind of point to be scored in grossly misrepresenting
another's argument, especially when the error is so baldly obvious?
The point is that *all* laws are based on religious ideas. Even laws
that protect the lives or property of others are based on the idea that
the lives and property of others *should* be protected. That is a moral
idea, and morality is derived from one's view of the deity, or lack
thereof.
An> Would someone *not* in Mikey's twit filter please forward this to him?
An> Thanks.
Psst, Marilyn --- you aren't in my twit filter. You could have just
sent this to me directly.
... There is no such thing as a stupid question. But yours comes close.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: legislation
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:24:00
EID:d703 206eab00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404391
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Like the religion-based laws against stealing other peoples'
MH> property? No, I don't think we should repeal those laws.
MG> Now, we've been over this before. Why is it that you believe that all
MG> laws that enforce decncy could not have originated from anything other
MG> than a religious background?
Oh, they can. But the underlying motivation is ultimately religious, no
matter what the surface reasoning. A law that says "Don't take someone
else's property" is ultimately rooted in the conviction that you
*should* not take someone else's property, because it is wrong. "Wrong"
is an abstract concept, not always based in pragmatism. If it were
pure pragmatism, the rule would be "Don't take your neighbor's
property unless your sure you can get away with it."
... I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ma teresa
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:27:00
EID:0e5d 206eab60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404392
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> I offer this FYI. Christians are quite aware that other
MH> are human and imperfect, and we're aware that we're human and
MH> imperfect too. Christianity is built on the premise that "ALL
MH> sinned and come short of the glory of God," even Mother
MG> So, are they saying that MT is not a true christian?
You are just bound and determined not to ever get it, aren't you? Come
on, Martin, this sort of idiocy is beneath you. This is more Worrell's
speed.
... There is no such thing as a stupid question. But yours comes close.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Elephant velvet
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:29:00
EID:8137 206eaba0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404393
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> doesn't mean that any idea of God is equal to any other. No part of
MH> the elephant felt velvet smooth, for example.
MM> Hmmmm haven't spent much time with elephants have you? They do have
MM> areas that are silky. Usually at the inside of the lower jaw, and near
MM> the hollows behind their front legs. Especially on a young elephant.
MM> The idea of the story, is you can not tell if the other persons view
MM> is just from a different view, or if they ran into the enclosure
MM> itself.
Yes, but my point is, while several different views of God may be true,
but incomplete, that's no reason to assume that all are. Some views of
God may simply be wrong, period.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: who wrote it
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:32:00
EID:6f05 206eac00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404394
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
MH>> It was not part of the gospel as originally written, and is
MH>> therefore not Scripture.
MG>> Why do you claim this?
MH> Because it is true. All Bible scholars I have studied state that
MH> the oldest and most reliable manuscripts of Mark do not
MH> include these verses.
MG> I knew WHY. I guess it wasn't clear. What I wondered was why you
MG> claimed that they weren't part of the bible. I certainly am o bible
MG> wscholr, but it seems to me that there has been evidence given here
MG> that much of the life of Jesus was writtren long after his
MG> death...certainly by persons that did not know him.
Actually, that's not true at all. No one can prove the case either way,
but the only Gospel that we *know* was not written by an eyewitness is
Luke's, because he said as much. But Luke was a close friend of Peter,
and of Jesus's brother James, so his information is, at worst,
second-hand from a close associate and a relative.
I *am* somewhat of a Bible scholar, in that I have closely studied
arguments on all sides regarding the gospels, over the course of a
decade of study. In my opinion, the chances are good that Mark and
John's gospels *are* by people who knew Jesus personally, and Luke is
by someone who knew one of Jesus's best friends, and a close relative.
Matthew is impossible to determine, but there certainly is no evidence
that it was *not* written by someone who knew Jesus.
As for when they were actually committed to writing, that doesn't
really matter much if they were written by people who had reliable
information. But the evidence is good that Matthew, Mark and Luke were
committed to writing no more than 30 years after Jesus's death. John is
harder to pin down, but if it was written by the disciple John, as I
believe the evidence supports, it obviously was within no more than a
few decades, John's lifetime.
... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: stereotype (Sony)
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:39:00
EID:b559 206eace0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
KC>> Let me ask you then, directly: do you feel that atheists
KC>> have no standards, because they do not accept an absolute
MH> No.
MG> The nature of the negative question confuses me. Once again, let's
MG> rewrite it.
MG> Do you believe that atheists have standards to live by?
I answered as I did becuase Ken instructed me to answer with just a yes
or no. He said I could elaborate afterward, but not that I had to.
I believe atheists may well choose standards to live by. But I also
believe they have no reason to, other than their own comfort and
satisfaction. If an atheist wants to be giving and generous, there's no
reason he can't. But if he wants to be selfish and dishonest, there's
no reason he shouldn't. You may disagree with his decisions, but there
is no higher standard to judge him by.
... A Mexican won the lottery. It was a million to Juan.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: elvis lution
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:42:00
EID:c302 206ead40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404396
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
MG>> His error is int he sue of the word "invented". It shows
MG>> not only his ignorance of science but his agenda in
MG>> defending his nonexistant creator.
MH> I am not a scientist Martin, and you are, so I do not presume to
MH> debate you on the subject. (I am also not a young-earth
MH> creationist, nor do I deny evoltion -- I just like the
MH> argument.)
MG> Again, if you believe in evolution, that's just fine. But your quote
MG> was that we had to "invent" punq eq. It is a statement that shows that
MG> your thinking ont he subject is off. The evidence left not only in
the
MG> fossil record (lack of continuous evolution) matched with some more
MG> sophistacated methods shows this to be a viable theory. No one
MG> invented it. There was a need to expalin what had happened in our
MG> history, not a need to preserve evolution as evolution stand on its
MG> own.
Right, but what I meant was that the *concept* of puntuated equilibrium
had to be developed, because the fossil evidence didn't support
Darwinian gradualism.
See, evolutionists will assure us that the *fact* of evolution is
beyond doubt -- the only questions are over details and processes. But
it seems to me that the "fact" is questionable, if no two scientists
agree on a theory to explain that fact. Telling me that dogs and cats
both evolved from a common mammalian ancestor doesn't mean much if one
scientist tells me the divergence came slowly and gradually, while
another insists it came in fits and starts.
MH> But why is it that there are people who are well-educated in
MH> disciplines where evolution is assumed, who hold degrees from
MH> prestigious non-sectarian institutions, who reject evolution if
MH> evolution is so obviously true?
MG> Because they are wrong. We're all wrong about some things. The
MG> evidence is there, just as much as the evidence that I provide in my
MG> technical articles. Look up my name in a search service to find my
MG> publications. I have pletny of evidence for what I say. You would
not
MG> reject it outright. Why would you look for a reason to reject
MG> evolution?
Because I want whatever I believe to be the truth. If evolution really
is well-supported by physical evidence, then I'll believe it. If it
isn't, then questioning it is valid.
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ev'dence
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:11:00
EID:66b3 206eb160
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404397
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> What you want is proof of a "physical" God, and I have to
JG> emphasize that even the bible says God is a "spirit". Now of
JG> course the New testament says this. In the beginning was the
JG> word and the word was with god and the word was god and the
JG> word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among men. Here is
JG> your physical evidence of "God". But again this is but a
JG> physical "manifestation" of God. The fullness of god is in
JG> the SPIRIT form.
MG> Damned right I do. You claim your god is real? Let's have some real
MG> evidence for him, not a bunch of philosophical bullshit, and certainly
MG> not a bunch of excuses telling me how "god is a spirit and there's not
MG> physical evidence et al." REal things leave real evidence. Physical
MG> evidence.
Real *physical* things leave physical evidence. Why would a spirit
leave physical evidence? (I'm momentarily accepting your assertion that
there is none, although I don't really think that's true.)
MG> If it's not there, I have to conclude that the god is nto
MG> there.
Then you obviously are locked into your own dogma, that "real" things
leave physical evidence -- ergo, you believe WITHOUT EVIDENCE that
physical things are the only "real" things.
I would say that the existence of the universe is physical evidence of
a Creator.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Congress
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:15:00
EID:95d2 206eb1e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404398
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-
DW> THE CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL PAY FOR YOUR CALL TO CONGRESS
DW> The following two telephone numbers will connect anyone in the U.S.
to
DW> the Capitol switchboard from where they can connect to any
DW> Congressional office:
DW> 1-800-962-3524
DW> 1-800-972-3524
DW> The numbers are courtesy of the Christian Coalition which is providing
DW> them to its members (and now to us). Please feel free to forward this
DW> message to friends and family.
DW> Oh, someone please forward this to Mikey as well. I'm sure it will
DW> make him feel *soo* good. :)
Sure. It shows how generous and loving we Christians are, that we're
willing to foot the bill for you to get involved in your government. :)
Have a nice day, sweetie.
... To laugh well is to live well.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: Re: CREATION PROBLEMS- 2
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:18:00
EID:40f0 206eb240
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89404399
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to Becke Jones <=-
BJ> In order to extricate themselves from the problems associated with a
BJ> six-day creation approximately 6,000 years ago, many apologists assert
BJ> that each day represents an age or era encompassing millions of years.
BJ> In other words, literal days composed of 24 hours each were not
BJ> intended. Their belief, however, is erroneous for several reasons:
BJ> (1) The word translated as "day" is "yom" in the Hebrew which means
BJ> a definite 24-hour period from sunset to sunset;
Not according to Strong's Concordance. Yom (or yowm, or yome) means
" ... a day, whether literal ... or figurative (a space of time
defined by an associated term) ... age, + always, + chronicles,
continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days
(agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X
full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, +
outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X
since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in
trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole
(+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger."
BJ> (2) Starting evening and then morning shows a 24-hour period was
BJ> intended. This was how Jews computed a day;
It could simply mean the beginning and ending of a period of time. This
is what I mean when I say some atheists are much more Bible literalists
than theists ... WE understand figurative language, but you apparently
don't.
BJ> (4) Actual days must be intended; otherwise, men who lived
BJ> hundreds of years, e.g., Seth and Noah, would really have lived
BJ> for millions of years.
False comparison. In English, the word "day" can mean both a period of
millions of years ("in the day of the dinosaur") or 24 hours. If we can
use the same word to mean different things, why can't the Hebrews?
Especially when, as I just demonstrated, you're wrong in asserting
"yom" must mean a 24-hour day.
BJ> If a day is an era then a year must be
BJ> tremendously long, perhaps encompassing hundreds of millions of
BJ> years
Again, an incredibly incompentent comparison.
BJ> (5) If a day is an era, then much of the Old Testament becomes
BJ> chaotic. For example, in each of the following verses, the same
BJ> Hebrew word "yom" is employed:
BJ> "And the flood was forty days upon the earth" (Gen 7:17) "And he
BJ> (Moses) was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights (Ex.
BJ> 34:28)", and "Thus I fell down before the lord forty days and
BJ> forty nights..." (Deut. 9:25)
BJ> If "yom" means era instead of 24-hour period, Moses was "there
BJ> with the Lord" a very long time.
And again, bad comparison. Strong's says "yom" can mean either a
literal 24-hour day, OR a figurative "day," i.e., an age, JUST LIKE THE
WORD "DAY" CAN BE USED IN ENGLISH.
BJ> (Still more here, but I'm tired of typing--will type next
BJ> installment in tommorow's packet)
Will it be less laughable than this one?
... The danger of leaving God to the 11th hour is you might die at 10:30.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: face value
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:28:00
EID:00c8 206eb380
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940439A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Karen Davis to Michael Hardy <=-
KD> On (09 Mar 96) Michael Hardy wrote to Kenneth Cavness...
MH> 1. People believed the resurrection very soon after it allegedly
MH> happened. Typically, such legends don't develop for decades or
MH> centuries after the death of a leader, and certainly not within the
MH> lifetime of people who knew the leader personally, especially people
MH> who opposed him. In Jesus's case, no more than five years could have
MH> passed.
KD> We have no evidence that this is true.
We have TONS of evidence that this is true! Karen, the emperor Nero was
persecuting Christians by the AD 60s. That's less than 30 years after
the crucifixion. Obviously, there had to be enough of them by that time
for him to find them a sufficient bother to be worth persecuting.
We also know that Paul started writing his letters by the late 40s,
less than 20 years after the crucifixion. His letters are all based
squarely on the conviction that Jesus rose from the dead.
Paul was writing his letters to established communities of believers.
If the letters were written, say 15 years after the crucifixion, the
evangelists obviously had to have visited those areas and established
those communities in the years before that.
Paul spent a couple or three years in Jerusalem, learning from Peter
and the others, before he began his missionary journeys. If he was
writing 15 years after the crucifixion, and began his journeys say, 10
years after it, then he was converted and began learning 7 years after
it.
And he spent several years before his conversion persecuting the
Christians. If it was even as little as two years, we have belief in
the resurrection existing five years after the crucifixion. And because
the Jerusalem church had been in existence for some time, we can
assume that the Biblical account is essentially correct -- the belief
in Jesus's resurrection developed immediately after the crucifixion.
MH> 2. There were a number of other alleged messiahs in the century or
so
MH> before and after Jesus. In all cases, when the leader died, the
MH> movement died or else found a new messiah -- sometimes a relative of
MH> the dead one. In Jesus's case, the movement grew much stronger after
MH> his death. And although there was an obvious candidate for a
MH> transferred messiahship -- his brother James -- there's no evidence
MH> that the Jesus-followers' confidence in Jesus ever waned.
KD> Then why do the Mormons still exist?
Not the same situation at all. Joseph Smith wasn't a messiah figure at
all, he just claimed to have received a revelation.
MH> 3. Jews tend to make shrines of the tombs of fallen leaders. We saw
MH> this just last year when Rabin was assassinated. Yet there's no
MH> evidence that Jesus's tomb was ever venerated.
KD> Puts the lie to the fact that they really believed what he was.
You aren't following this very well. It establishes that they believed,
early on, that the tomb was empty.
MH> 4. The disciples had been questioning and timid before the
MH> resurrection. Afterward, they became bold and fearless, suffering
MH> persecution, and some dying for their insistence that the
MH> resurrection had happened.
KD> They were convinced they had a good thing going. No different than
KD> Joseph Smith or the Bab.
ROFL! You truly have no clue what you're talking about. Their "good
thing" consisted of being close associates of a man executed for
treason and blasphemy. It consisted of hiding from the authorities for
fear they'd be executed too.
... ....Unable to open Trouser.zip (a)bort (r)etry (p)ee
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: freedom
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:38:00
EID:5f85 206eb4c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940439B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to Michael Hardy <=-
JG> In order to LOVE god, we have to be free to NOT love god.
RH> You call that freedom? I call that extortion.
MH> Freedom equals extortion? That makes sense. Not.
NS> Roger didn't say that Freedom = Extortion. He obviously showed
NS> that he thought being forced to love meant the contradiction (to
NS> him) of freedom, i. e., extortion.
But how is being free to not love God the same as "being forced to
love?"
... Without the right to life, all other rights mean nothing.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hitler
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:42:00
EID:c03c 206eb540
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to J.j. Hitt <=-
MB> I don't see how Jehovah could even put Hitler in Hell. After all:
MB> Hitler didn't do anything Jehovah hadn't already done to the
MB> Midianites before him.
MB> Or, as an alternative, maybe Jehovah's in Hell, paying for what he
MB> did to the Midianites.
MB> Or, another possibility is that old Do-As-I-Say-And-Not-As-I-So
MB> Jehovah has forgiven himself, but does not see fit to forgive mere
MB> mortals for doing the same thing.
Or maybe Jehovah, as creator and judge of all mankind, has the right to
destroy people who sacrifice their own children to false gods.
Nah, that would be too simple an answer.
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Istambul paraphrased
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:44:00
EID:ba3d 206eb580
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Karen Davis to Michael Hardy <=-
KD> On (08 Mar 96) Michael Hardy wrote to Masochistic Maiden...
MH> Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the
MH> Father but by me." This is either true or it isn't. If it is, then
MH> any idea of God which denies that truth is wrong. If it isn't true,
MH> then
MH> those of us who believe it are wrong.
KD> And why would an omnipotent god send one man, or go down as one man,
KD> not enabling the rest of the world to benefit from a messiah of their
KD> own culture?
Becuase the vital part of the messiah's mission was not what he said,
but who he was and what he did -- giving himself over to human judgment
as a sacrifice for human sin. It only needed to be done once, and once
is for all.
The message of salvation is absolutely universal, open to any and all
who choose it. You make this out to be a problem when it isn't.
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 12 Mar 96 20:12:00
EID:55d1 206ca180
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8940439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> Perception , perception , perception. You CHOOSE to perceive it in
JG> a negative way. It is like jogging. WHat a stupid thing to do. It
JG> causes you discomfort and pain, you run around in a big circle and
JG> end up in the place you started.
PS> Mugger: "Give me your wallet or you're dead."
PS> You: "No."
PS> Mugger:
PS> You: "Argh!"
PS> This is an example of free will, according to you. In this example,
PS> you were free to give your wallet to the mugger or refuse to do so.
You
PS> did the latter, and thus suffered the penalty. Now, watch this:
PS> God: "Worship me or you'll go to Hell."
PS> Me: "No."
PS> God: "Pity."
PS> There is *no* difference in the two scenarios, save in who is involved
PS> and what is at stake. In both instances, coercion is involved.
I've given up on seeing any of you ever come to realize how wrong this
little scenario is, but I might as well make a token gesture. The
reality is like this:
Your dad: "Son, it's below freezing out here. I've got a big
warm house. I know you left of your own free will, but I hate to see
you out here all by yourself in the cold. Why don't you come in and
spend the night?"
You: (defiantly) "I'm not cold. And I don't want to spend the night in
your house."
Your dad: "Well, it's unlocked. Just come in whenever you're ready to
admit you're cold."
You: "That's coercion! If you really loved me, you wouldn't have let
me leave in the first place."
Your dad: "If I had forced you to stay, you'd have called me a tyrant
and been woefully miserable."
You: "Well I'm not coming back now."
... To laugh well is to live well.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: NOT a Ringer, I swear!
|Date: 10 Mar 96 20:35:00
EID:31a3 206aa460
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 231433e3
PID: FM 2.02
> NOT a Ringer, I swear!:
> 1% Norbert Sikes, 10% Sean McCullough,
> 40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
> SM> * Forwarded from "Holy Smoke!"
> SM> * Originally by Sean McCullough
> SM> * Originally to Gwenny the Pooh
> SM> * Originally dated 4 Mar 1996, 20:29
>> Kenneth Mcabee > George Rudzinski : NOT a Ringer, I swear!
> SM> also wik Norbert Sikes
> __________^^^_________^^^^^
> ÿ ??? Sykes
Reference is to the portion of the opening credits to __Monty Python And
The Holy Grail__ where the Swedes took over the credit sequence while discussing
moose bites in the subtitles.
>> KM> I will accept the word on my Saviour Matthew 4:7.
>> Your Savior is Matthew? Now THAT'S a serious schism in the Church
>> . . .
> SM> Your Saviour is Matthew??
> SM> You're in DEEP TROUBLE!! :-)
> Tell me about it . . . };) Any word from Gwenny? I haven't seen
> her post here in the longest time.
Visited her last night, she's OK, but she's had to watch a horde of uncontrollable
brats^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H friends' children, and her
life has been the pits of Hella.
She shall yet return, however.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 10 Mar 96 20:40:01
EID:f7f8 206aa500
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 231433e4
REPLY: 1:170/309@fidonet.org 815e102b
PID: FM 2.02
> JG>Please tell me EXACTLY how many generations it took for the very first
> JG>life from to evolve into my mother .
> One.
ÛÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛ
Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û ÛÛÛÛÛÛ Û Û Û Û ÛÛ
ÛÛÛÛÛ Û Û Û ÛÛÛ Û Û ÛÛ Û ÛÛÛÛÛ Û Û ÛÛ
Û ÛÛ Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û Û
ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛ
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Founding Father Beliefs
|Date: 10 Mar 96 20:51:02
EID:4ab3 206aa660
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 231433e5
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 2117ce67
PID: FM 2.02
> P.S.
> It shall be amusing to see you attempt to portray Jefferson as a
> Christian.
Re-read Berndt's message to you. He gets even better than that!!
He tries to portray THOMAS PAINE as one!!!!!
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Adolph Hitler
|Date: 11 Mar 96 20:22:03
EID:2d0a 206ba2c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe3a
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 23837d6a
PID: FM 2.02
> -=> Quoting Sean Mccullough to Jim Germiquet <=-
>> SM> Now: how about some direct evidence for your claimed "Satan" fellow??
>> How do you prove the wind exists ? You can't see it or put it in a jar.
> SM> On the contrary, I put wind in a "jar" several times a week.
> SM> It's known to commerce as "compressed air". Open the bottle, and
what
> SM> comes out?? AN INTENSE WIND.
> Oh really ? And while it is in the bottle, is it "wind" ? or just
> "compressed air" ? "compressed air does not = wind .
Hogwash. All that "the wind" consists of is compressed air, moving from
an area of greater pressure (just like the inside of the bottle) to an area
of lesser pressure (just like the outside of the bottle).
Compressed air DOES equal wind, Jim. It is ALL that the wind is. Said comPRESSed
air -- wind -- exerts PRESSure upon you as you attempt to move in it. In
fact, this is the only way one knows the wind is blowing from direct experience.
It is NOT the motion, but the PRESSURE that is detected.
> Perhaps god is like that, you only detect the spirit of God because of
> it's movement. When the spirit of God moves we feel it.
Again, I have never experienced any such thing.
> SM> Hence, we know that the wind and compressed air are the same thing.
> SM> Moreover, we know that the air IS a thing, because when a compressed
> SM> air tank is full -- of nothing else but the air -- the tank weighs
more
> SM> than when empty.
> SM> So much for your analogy. ALL real things can be evidenced directly,
> I did not say the spirit of God WAS wind, I said it was LIKE wind.
And, as you admit here, your analogy is fallible.
> I never ever said the spirit of God was a physical object either.
There are no other kinds of things. One is either a physical object or one
doesn't exist outside of imagination. (My apologies for not having specified
the "outside of imagination" part before.)
> In fact I have always referred to God as a spirit.
> Seems we are talkiing apples and oranges here,
Actually, we are talking apples and vacuum here. One is either a physical
object, subject to all natural laws applicable to physical objects, or one
doesn't exist outside of imagination.
Like apples, physical objects exist. Like vacuum, your God does not consist.
> and you want me to prove that an apple is an orange.
It's you, not me, who insists that some God-thing or other exists. It's
you, not me, therefore, who is trying to create an apple out of vacuum.
> SM> by material attributes. Unless it has demonstrable mass -- like "the
> SM> wind" in my compressed air tank above -- IT DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL.
> If that is your "definition" of existence.
It's the only one there is, Jim.
> But then of course such things as "love" "happiness", or even negative
> numbers do not exist under your definition of "existence".
That is correct. All the things you mentioned are SYMBOLIC CONCEPTS. They
have no existence outside of the imagination. (Show me a pile with a negative
16 apples in it, why don't you?)
> And what kind of life would we have if love didn't exist ?
> Maybe you should change your definition of exist, so we can have some
> love in our lives.
I don't define my terms based on what I want to be; I base my definitions
on what IS -- directly demonstrably IS, at that.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Adolph Hitler
|Date: 11 Mar 96 20:26:04
EID:2d0a 206ba340
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe3b
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 23837d6a
PID: FM 2.02
>> You can "feel" it's prescence. You can see the "effect" it has on other
>> things.
> SM> Things I have NEVER gotten from ANY "God".
> That is your perception. Are you sure that no one in your life has ever
> done you an act of kindness because of the love of God ? Do you know
> any "Christians" ? Ask them if they have ever done you a favor because
> they were moved by the spirit of God. Just the very act of a Christian
> telling you of the availability of the love of Christ is a gift to you.
> You just choose not to accept it.
Sorry, Jim. Before ANY indirect evidence can be accepted, I must have DIRECT
evidence FIRST.
Moreover, all that the above even COULD evidence is that those people BELIEVE
that your/their God-thingie exists. It is NOT evidence of said God-thingie
itself. Only DIRECT evidence will suffice there, I'm afraid.
>> That is the only way to describe proving the existence of God or Satan.
>> They are like the wind. You know it exists by the effect it has.
> SM> Then, as I asserted earlier, NEITHER ONE EXISTS AT ALL.
> Then you must also say that under that definition , your life is
> devoid of love.
Non sequitur. And please feed your red herrings to your cat.
>> God is a "spirit" . What is a "spirit" ?
> SM> A liquid possessing enough volatile hydrocarbon alcohols to burn
> SM> easily.
> You must have a very limited vocabulary, because my dictionary gives
> over a dozen defintions for the word "spirit".
Nine-tenths of which ASS*U*ME that some God-thingie exists. I do not use
those because, until evidenced otherwise, all the "spiritual" uses of the
word are little else but superstitious silliness. Just like belief in God
is.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Question?
|Date: 11 Mar 96 20:29:05
EID:7d73 206ba3a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe3c
REPLY: 1:352/266 31424F2D
PID: FM 2.02
> Troi on Startrek certainly can make a ritual out of a cup of hot chocolate.
And I could certainly get into the Great Rite with Marina Sirtis..... ;-]
> Let's see, now that there's blue M&M's ........
> Hey! that could work. hehehe
What in Wotan's Name is all this "blue M&M's" noize all about??!!??
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Larry Craig
|Sub: False Christians
|Date: 11 Mar 96 20:41:06
EID:2d07 206ba520
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe3d
REPLY: 1:123/319.0 31439692
PID: FM 2.02
> Why is the Christian Coalition supporting Bob Dole over Pat Buchanan?
Because they have three remaining living neurons between them??
> Bogus Bob is a 33rd. degree Mason,
There are only three degrees in Masonry.
> and Pat Robertson said - in his book - that the upper echelons of the
> "lodge" were Luciferians.
Typical Christanic LIE. When Christians can't defeat an opponent with honest
facts, they INVARIABLY attempt to tarnish their opposition as "Satanic".
Of course, this doesn't mean they ARE "Satanic". That dead wolf won't hunt.
The Christers have cried "Satan" so often that NO ONE believes them anymore.
> And didn't Dole say that his administration would be inclusive of
> homosexuals (an abomination to God).
GOOD. The more your non-existent Jesus is blasphemed and abominated, the
BETTER.
As there will never BE any "God" come down to avenge the blasphemies, this
practice will demonstrate to ever more folks that the Christians' God does
NOT exist.
And this can't help but be good for society. Return to reality always is.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Pagan March on DC
|Date: 11 Mar 96 20:48:07
EID:f02c 206ba600
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe3e
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 140f9aa8
PID: FM 2.02
> Tony Byers wrote in a message to All:
> TB> Place: Washington DC
> TB> ****************
> TB> Purpose: This is a true grassroots movement that all pagan peoples
> TB> are invited to take part in, with the primary purpose being to show
> TB> the world that we exist in large numbers. We are all responsible
> TB> for our own path, but with a little work on everyone's part, those
> TB> paths can cross in Washington DC USA on October 31st 1997.
> Time to raise the drawspans around the Beltway again.
Why??
ANYTHING that disturbs, bothers, bullyrags, vexes, disquiets, ires, annoys,
or harrasses the Religious Reich and their wholly-owned stoolpigeon Congressthingies
CANNOT but help the American People.
No Gods or Goddesses required (except for the disturbance, bothering, bullyragging,
vexation, disquietude, iration, annoyance, and harrassment mentioned above
-- and no God[dess][es] need possess more than a NAME for that!!).
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Knowing
|Date: 11 Mar 96 21:04:08
EID:3847 206ba880
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2393fe40
REPLY: 1:352/266 31424F25
PID: FM 2.02
> BJ> I hope this helps you out. I would suggest looking for a church
> BJ> that is Acts 2:38 teachers.
> Been there, done that.
I keep telling Brad that we need to find HIM a REAL Bible-believing Church!
You know, a church that is Mark 16:15-18 teaching...... [g,d,r]
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Pantheacon Stuff 1/4
|Date: 12 Mar 96 19:58:09
EID:d833 206c9f40
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2413d329
PID: FM 2.02
> KW> Oh, I alternate between MTP and BSW, with forays into Episcopaganism.
> KW> My coven will not let me forget the ritual that literally blew up
(so
> KW> much for special effects).
> Pyrotechnics can be a blast . . .
Pyro IS my religion!! :-)
> I remember one year there were a bunch of new seekers around, and
> the HPs had them all doing quarters during the ritual. In the
> middle, she waved her script (We all worked with scripts at that
> time) and it intersected a candle flame and started burning. I
> remember looking at those new people looking at her, and I swear I
> could read their minds: Are we _all_ supposed to sacrifice our
> scripts?
I have seen rituals where the Priest and/or Priestess torches hir robes
on fire. ("No Witch burnings tonight, by Goat!! You're wearing FIBERGLASS
to Sabbat!!")
> I think my opinion as to the most fun ritual was the chocolate
> ritual someone came up with a few years ago. Yummy too. I think
> chocolate itself is sacrament, and wonder why no one's formed a
> religion around it yet. I, oddly, feel the same way about
> caffiene. };)
The Gevalia cup is integral to my coven's sessions.
> I like the Monster Truck Pagans the most because they make their
> own beer. Anyone that does that is okay in my book.
The MTP Norse Coders who I hang out with (and run my uplink, 1:128/203)
make their own beer. When "The Temp Assignment From R'lyeh" ends this summer,
I'll teach them how to make their own Scotch. :-)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Vote for Rapture.
|Date: 12 Mar 96 20:00:10
EID:cdb5 206ca000
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2413d32a
PID: FM 2.02
> KW> Speaking of such, did you see the article in the WWNews about the
Pope
> KW> hiring a couple of hit men to kill Satan?
> I haven't seen the story . . . the last one I saw was about
> Microsoft acquiring the Roman Catholic Church. Pretty funny. Hit
> men to kill Satan? But . . . but . . . I thought Satan was an
> Angel and thusly unable to die . . .
Unless the "hit man" sent to off Old Nick *IS* Bill Gates....... :-)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 12 Mar 96 20:05:11
EID:a25c 206ca0a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2413d32b
PID: FM 2.02
> FR> Parker goose-stepped his way into another lunatic claim, I see.
> Heh. I can just see people who don't know what was going on really
> believing that the AP had done a nasty story on you. TLP is
> just an anarchistic revisionist, this slip shows it quite clearly.
Careful how you throw the term "anarchist" and its derivatives around, please.
Anarchists abound who aren't jack-booted historical revisionists. This statement
is notably true here on HolySmoke, as well.
> History is full of them, and they usually don't amount to much in a
> historical sense.
> I'm surprized that there's no news stories claiming that you and
> J. J. Hitt weren't driving the tanks, yet . . . };)
Goat!! I'm falling behind on the job!! :-)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: drool game
|Date: 12 Mar 96 20:20:12
EID:ae9d 206ca280
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2413d32c
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31420ca8
PID: FM 2.02
> 07 Mar 96 23:01, Michael Hardy wrote to All:
> MH> The following people make up the charter group of twits: Dan Ceppa,
> MH> David Rice, Fredric Rice, Sean McCullough, Steve Rose and David
> MH> Worrell.
> I'm in good company.
My congratulations on being one of Mikey's CHARTER twits!
> MH> This is like "You Bet Your Life," where you say the secret woid and
> MH> win $100. In this case, if the right person earns twitdom, you win
at
> MH> least 30 days Mickey-free. (And yes, I'll announce it if it happens.)
> I'll give $20 to whoever makes Mikey leave for a month.
A proposal:
Despite the fact that Mikey has us twitted, let's continue to answer ALL
his messages -- except we redirect them to "ALL", and allow any heathen
to forward them to Mikey.
After all, OUR writings are KNOWN to be what Mikey considers "drool" but
are really arguments he cannot hope to so much as address.
Why not arm "The Person" Mikey has chosen with RELIABLY painful facts to
afflict him with??!!?? :-)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Vox Anarchistica! (1:128/203.666)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: drool game
|Date: 12 Mar 96 20:25:13
EID:5524 206ca320
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 2413d32d
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 893D0E37
PID: FM 2.02
>-> On 03-07-96 23:01, Michael Hardy got back to All
> MH> Like any of you care, my patience for this echo is wearing thin.
So
> MH> I'm going to liven it up with a little game.
> Gee, that's nice. Are you leaving and coming back under an
> alias?
No, no, Dan. That's Staalin, not Hardly. :-)
P.S. Congratulations at having made the CHARTER Group of Twits!!! :-)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: 20 MOST DISGUSTING CAREERS
|Date: 14 Mar 96 21:16:15
EID:6edf 206eaa00
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 25151f7a
PID: FM 2.02
> On 5 Mar 96 08:59pm, SEAN MCCULLOUGH wrote to ALL:
> SM> TWENTY MOST DISGUSTING CAREERS IN THE UNIVERSE
> SM> 1- Tobacco Corporation Lawyers.
> SM> 2- Lawyer Politicians.
> SM> 3- Lawyer Lobbyists.
> SM> 4- Tax Lawyers.
> SM> 5- Actors who aren't lawyers, but play one on TV.
> SM> 6- Tobacco Corporation Advertisers.
> SM> 7- Lawyers who advertise.
> SM> 8- Advertisers for lawyers.
> SM> 9- Divorce Lawyers.
> SM> 10- Nazi doctors that experimented on Jewish and Gypsy children
> SM> without anesthesia, who fathered Lawyers.
> SM> 11- Serial murderers.
> SM> 12- Lawyers who defend serial murderers.
> SM> 13- Lawyers who are serial murderers.
> SM> 14- Lawyers who defend serial murdering lawyers.
> SM> 15- Organic farmers who supply Johnny Cochran with healthfull food.
> SM> 16- Pimps.
> SM> 17- Pimps who get a law degree in prison.
> SM> 18- Child pornographers.
> SM> 19- Kiddy Porn directors.
> SM> 20- Porn directors who dress up children to look like lawyers.
> 21- Television evangelists
22- Lawyers for television evangelists
23- Television evangelists who are also Lawyers (J. Bandsma)
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Coridon Henshaw
|Sub: FAQ quote?
|Date: 14 Mar 96 22:10:16
EID:89c7 206eb140
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 25151f7b
REPLY: 1:250/820 3145c743
PID: FM 2.02
> *** Answering a msg copied to area PERSONAL.
> On Saturday March 09 1996 at 22:35, David Worrell wrote to Coridon
> Henshaw:
> JG>> It's a saying of Jesus. But who knows ? Could mars be a spiritual
> JG>> planet ? Some say Jupiter is.
> I don't read this area anymore. The FAQ is free for the taking if
> anyone wants it.
Cool. I'll take it.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: Charter Member: Mikey Hardly's Twit Filter! (1:128/203.666)
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50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: Re: #smoke
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:12:59
EID:8f35 206e7180
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f7f
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> ........Al, I heard, awhile back, that you were in #Smoke....You
MS> don't happen to know how to get there on the internet or have the
MS> correct address?
RS> It is #holysmoke and it's at undernet.org, port 6660-6669 [6667 is
RS> usually the best]. Evenings seem to be the best check in time. Oh,
RS> and you'll need a irc client program to join us.
I'm not too familiar with a irc, what might that be may I ask?
RS> I look forward to seeing you, Jimbo. I've enjoyed your spew over in
RS> A_THEIST, BTW.
I may have to check that out also.....
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark staal
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: #smoke
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:14:02
EID:d24a 206e71c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f80
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Jim Staal <=-
DW> @MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 314204e3
DW> Which of the various Staal personae is in charge of the neuron
DW> tonight?
DW> 08 Mar 96 14:38, Mark Staal wrote to Al Schroeder:
MS> ........Al, I heard, awhile back, that you were in #Smoke....You
MS> don't
MS> happen to know how to get there on the internet or have the correct
MS> address?
DW> It takes a brain, Jim. That leaves you right the hell out, doesn't it?
DW> Wilbur too, for that matter.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Re: #smoke
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:16:03
EID:0f04 206e7200
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f81
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Styx Allum to Mark Staal <=-
SA> @MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 23175e7f
> ........Al, I heard, awhile back, that you were in #Smoke....
> You don't happen to know how to get there on the internet
> or have the correct address?
SA> Download mIRC 3.92 and connect via undernet.org to #holysmoke
Can that be found in one of the bbs files groups? And how would I
go about connecting thru AOL?
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Re: jim staal
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:19:34
EID:5f7c 206e7260
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f82
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> Thank you very much, It is very much appreciated.
MS> Hopefully no one will take this in the wrong way and ridicule
MS> you also for showing any sympathy in this matter.
LB>
KDM> I doubt it. We may be assholes, but we aren't cruel.
MS> ....Well, I never said you guys were that and don't think so
MS> either...as for being cruel I know of only one or two and that's
MS> George and the rice brothers.
LB> What have the Rice bros. said to you about this? The only negative
LB> post I've seen regarding your father's death has come from George.
They more or less just agreed with George along with Ryan also...
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Re: #smoke
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:25:18
EID:05cb 206e7320
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f83
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
LB> It's #holysmoke on Undernet, and you need to have IRC software and an
LB> Internet connect that allows IRC. Do you currently have Internet
LB> access?
I've heard of the IRC and I think I can download one off the bbs
I'm in...And I do have AOL adn getting Pipeline..
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:34:31
EID:eabf 206e7440
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f84
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Mark Staal <=-
KS> @MSGID: 1:170/309@fidonet.org 7e54f62c
MS> KS> Which is one of the true enigmas of the fundy mindset. They tell
MS> KS> everyone else how wonderful heaven is, but when it's down to the
MS> KS> nuts and bolts they'll shit all over themselves in a frenzy of
MS> KS> prayer to prevent their 'loved' one from getting there.
MS> You must be one of Georgies' brothers....We didn't pray that our
KS> No.
MS> God-forsaken earth.....Why don't you two pull your heads out of each
MS> others' butts and realize that Christians are not overly selfish people
KS> Do you deny my statement above?
Yes I do, _entirely_!
MS> and that we are alot like you except in our beliefs... We sin just
like
MS> the rest of the world and sometimes do the same things that you
KS> Speak for yourself. I have never sinned.
....Well, I'm not the one to judge that so I won't comment on that
one either....
MS> do....But we are still compassionate to one another no matter who they
MS> are or what they do.....I could even be... compassionate
or
KS> Right. gag, choke. Hypocrite.
....Nothing hypocritical about it...If I were to see any one of you
or a total stranger in trouble, or if anyone had a tramatic
experience happen to them, I would either help them or at least
sympathize with them and do whatever I could to comfort them...I
certianly wouldn't get off on their demise or misfortune.
MS> caring for both of you even though you have no compassion for anyone
let
MS> alone for yourselves.
KS> And you are a liar.
Well, That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, I
suppose...But, there are many people who could prove you WRONG!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: your father
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:39:03
EID:1660 206e74e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31482f85
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Mark Staal <=-
KDM> @MSGID: 1:157/200 6c13044a
KDM> MARK STAAL spoke thusly to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT:
MS> I'm almost afraid to say this now, forseeing alot of flack for
MS> it but, Thank you, It is much appreciated. from you but from OTHERS on smoke... and they know who they
MS> are>
KDM> Who, George? If he raises his head again on this, I'll decapitate
KDM> him.
He made alot of people angry with his ranting on about this
matter...particularly The many hosts of the BBS he post from... Or
should I say ...Used to post from....
KDM> ... Ifyoutookthetimetoreadthisthenyouhavenolifewhatsoever
I fell for that one hard......OK I admit......
... Catch the Blue Wave!
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|From: Larry Bevard
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Adolph Hitler (yawn)
|Date: 15 Mar 96 01:17:00
EID:9d61 206f0a20
MSGID: 1:3615/51 00023778
David,
DR> -=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to David Rice <=-
DR>-=> Quoting David Rice to John Prewett <=-
DR>-=> Quoting John Prewett to David Rice <=-
DR>
DR>>DR> [cuts by me--- dr]
DR>>DR>
DR>>DR> However, there are no tests for determining who is and
DR>>DR> who is not a Christian, other than asking a person.
DR>>DR>
DR>JG> Jesus said "they will know you are christians by your
DR>JG> love one for another".
DR>
DR>Liar.
DR>
DR>FACT #1: no one knows what Jesus may have said, since
DR> he left no writings and there are no known
DR> records of what he might have said that were
DR> written by witnesses.
Upon greatest authority, both Christian and secular, the letters as
recorded in the New Testement are shown to be authentic and at least
Half of them, with no dispute, was written by the people that we
Christians say they were written by, Paul, John, Peter, James, Luke,
Matthew, Mark, all witnesses to the life, death and risen life of Jesus.
DR>FACT #2: Jesus had no notion of what a Christian is,
DR> since the cult wasn't started unill several
DR> hundred years after he was stoned to death.
Joke right? Jesus was hung on a Cross. And as far as a Church
being started, the Christian moment started 10 days after Jesus assended
into Heaven which is 50 days after He had died and risen. Within 20
years, there were Christians in every major city of the Roman Empire.
DR>FACT #3: Jesus had nothing to do with Christianity:
DR> the reprobate Saul of Tarsus created it.
Saul of Tarsus expanded and defind the Chruch into other, Non-jewish
areas. As far as creating it, as I said above, it was created 50 days
after Jesus died and rose again.
DR>JG> the definition christian[sic] includes a "follower of the
DR>JG> teachings of jesus[sic] christ[sic]".
DR>
DR>Since there never was a "Jesus Christ," there cannot be, by
DR>your definition, Christians. Since there =ARE= Christians,
DR>your definition is DEMONSTATED false.
Jesus the Christ (or Choosen One) is a historic fact. The Followers
of Jesus were originally refered to as Followers of The Way. Later they
became know as Christians, i.e. followers of Christ.
DR>JG> And in a christian[sic] country the label "christian" is
DR>JG> indeed useless because it is used as a social enhancement.
DR>
DR>A Christian is anyone who professes to be a Christian. There
DR>is no other known test for Christianhood.
Getting back to the original comment, we can know a Christian by the
way he acts. If he acts in a way that follows the teachings of the
Bible and what Christ would do, then we can be sure he is Christian.
That is the test. But, you are correct in that until we know a person,
if he states he is a Christian, then we would have to accept that and
expect him to act as a Christian. But, if he fails to act the part, the
we can question if he is truly Christian.
Larry Bevard
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|From: Larry Bevard
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 15 Mar 96 01:17:00
EID:a1f1 206f0a20
MSGID: 1:3615/51 0002378c
John,
I just picked up this echo, but I like your thoughtfulness and your
questioning attitude. If I might be so bold, I would like to speak to
you as a Christian on some of your concerns.
JP>As a non-Christian, I am fascinated by the process Christians of
JP>all
JP>flavors use to deduce what is allegorical verses literal in the Bible.
Since
JP>there are over 3000 denominations of Christianity across the world, there
JP>clearly is no singular consensus on the issue. But regardless, when
I come
JP>across a Christian who makes the claim (implicitly or explicitly) that
they
JP>have some insight that lets them make this deduction, I want to know
what it
JP>is.
I have to agree with you that there are 3000 denominations, along
with many other non-denominational and Home Churches that all says they
have the Truth, but theirs is better that any other. Speaks highly of
Christianity does it. But, there are some things that most Churches
have in common that make them Christian, and that is a Belief in God,
and a Belief that Jesus was the Son of God and that He died and rose for
us. My approach to the Bible is to read it as one would read any book,
things that seem to be present literally should be taken that way,
things that seen and make more sense to be read as allegory, should be
read that way. This makes most of the bible literal and it should be
taken that way unless very good reasons exist to indicate that it is
not. On point of contention would be the literal 7 days of creation.
Science tells us that this process took millions of years, so if we take
it leterally, we are saying science is wrong. A lot of Christians do
that. But, looking at the usage of the Hebrew word for day in this
passage indicates that it could mean a period of time, making the story
fit closer to what science tells us. But, in this discussion, the main
point is lost sometimes and that is that God did it. It does not say
how He did it, and it doesn't really matter, the important point is that
God did create it all. There are many other areas like this, that if
people would just get back to the basics, there would be less fighting
of the meaning of the passages.
JP> Please provide the details we need to understand your claim.
JP>
JP>> No, it simply means that you aren't willing to make any effort to
JP>> understand it. Rather than seeking God's truth with an open mind and
JP>> honest heart, you're demanding God deliver himself to you on a platter
JP>> -- as if you're doing HIM some kind of big favor.
JP>
JP> In a sense, that appears to be exactly the case.
JP>
JP> Even assuming a purely figurative interpretation of your Bible, we can
JP>assume the god(s) you worship are omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent.
JP>From
JP>a reading of the Old Testament, we can assume your god can not only snap
his
JP>fingers and create life, but he can also wink his eye and destroy that
life.
JP> Your god(s) have power that goes beyond our comprehension. Your god(s)
JP>know everything that has happened, and everything that will happen.
Your
JP>god(s) create and destroy with a purpose that is private to themselves.
JP>Perhaps
JP>they were bored. Perhaps they had some greater purpose. Who knows?
You have a good grasp of who God is and His power. It is stated in
the Bible that God said that His way is not man's way, His thoughts are
not man's thoughts.
JP> And here's the incredible part-- the part that *really* requires faith.
JP>Here we have your god(s) with such incredible power requiring that we
worship
JP>them. The chapter of Genesis clearly places mankind separate from all
other
JP>life on the planet, and it appears the reason for this is because we
have the
JP>means to worship the god(s) that created us.
Again, you have a good grasp on the reality of the situation.
Ephesians states we were created to Glorify God. We are His Created
product to do His good works upon this earth.
JP> Imagine that! We are beings that your god(s) could (and have) squash
JP>like flies. Yet, these amazingly incredibly powerful god(s) demand
JP>we worship them.
JP>The punishment for not worshipping? Eternal damnation in an allegorical
or
JP>literal lake of fire.
Problem area. The question is, did God create man just to have
power over them and punish them for not worshipping Him? If this was
true, He would not be worth of worship. I would rather burn in the lake
of fire that bow a knee to such a God. Sure God has power over us all,
and it is true that He could (and have) "squashed us like flies." But,
the purpose of man was to have man as some one that would honor Him. In
the Genesis Story, it is said that God and Adam walked togather through
the garden just like friends. Abraham is call a friend to God. This
was and is the attitude God has towards us humans. it is when Adam and
Eve violated the trust God put in them by eating of the fruit of Good
and Evil that God had to turn his back on His friends. It was not God
that brought the knowledge of Evil and death into the world, it was man.
It is true that God could have created us to always choose Good, but,
if your children or your friends were compelled to always love you no
matter what, it that something that honors you and would you be happy
about it? It is the same thing with God. Would it honor him if we
people could do nouthing but honor Him.
JP> Gosh, let's put it together. A group of beings beyond our comprehension
JP>somehow needs humanity to worship them. If we don't, we don't get eternal
JP>life
JP>after expiry. If we do, we spend eternity on a cloud sipping nectar
and
JP>listening to porcine cherubs strum on harps.
Because Adam ate of the fruit and disobeyed God, we are no longer
able to be in the presents of God. This is shown both literally and
allegorically by God expelling Adam and Eve from the Garden. Because we
have the knowledge of Evil, most people tend to follow their base nature
and do evil. It is this that condemns people to Death. I am still
studying on the concept of hell, but one thing for sure is that most
people will not be able to see and live with God. What is so great
about our loving Father though is that even while we were sinners, even
before man was created, God made a way that all could come to Him by
sending His Son down to earth to die for our sins. This is not just
something added on later to the writtings but there are hints and
statements throughout the Old Testement that this was the intent of God.
This would be like your son going out and getting in a royal mess and
you taking his punishment.
JP> In retrospect, Genesis 1:26 pretty much covers this. Man is created
in
JP>the image of your god(s). Man has plenty of faults as well as some virtues.
JP>I
JP>guess this means that your god(s) are the same way. Indeed, it would
appear
JP>that your god(s) suffer from one of the worst human faults-- vainity.
Your
JP>god(s) are so vain that they would actually require their creation worship
JP>them! In this way, it is indeed a favor for us to worship your god(s).
Please note the word "image". The literal translation is a
reflection. We are not exact copies of God, but were created to reflect
the traits of God. Does this mean that God shares our faults? To be
honest, I feel yes and no. After all, God does say that He is a jelious
God, he has anger and does kill, but He is jelious so we will not seek
after other things that would do us no good or might harm us, He is slow
to anger, He did not allow Abraham to have the promise land because the
people in the land had not become evil enough, He allowed them 300 years
to repent. And He kills to protect His choosen people and to cleanse
the world of evil that would kill every one. We as people take these
traits and use them for pure selfish reasons.
JP> There is that damn determinism aspect to this too. If your god(s) are
JP>worthy of the title, they know the outcome of everything. Outside my
JP>apartment
JP>is a large, slick, icy patch. Your god(s) supposedly know if I will walk
on
JP>it
JP>and slip on that patch, but I don't. To them, the outcome is already
known,
JP>and I merely have the illusion of chance. Talk of deathbed conversions
of
JP>atheists is a popular device used by some Christians, and the way some
talk,
JP>they expect me to gasp with my last breath a plea to your god(s). To
your
JP>god(s), if they are worthy of that title, the fact that I will or won't
offer
JP>them such a deathbed conversion is already known. To me, it is merely
the
JP>illusion of choice.
That is another, much larger discussion. There is a basic question
of how much is pre-determined in our lives, is every moment of every day
mapped out or is certain areas pre-determined or are we sometimes lead
(pushed) into making certain discisions that effect our lives.
JP> Don't let my arrogance on this subject serve as an excuse for not
JP>addressing the issues. If I am wrong, show me why. If the best you
can
JP>offer
JP>is that I need faith, then use your faith to show me why. If you can't,
then
JP>you appear to have no function in this forum.
I don't think you were arrogant at all. It is refreshing to see a
non-christian honestly trying to see what all this stuff in the Bible
really means. It is healthy to question as long as your are openned
minded enough to take a long look at what the bible is truly saying. As
far as faith, faith comes from hearing and is a gift that God gives us
also. Alot of things in the Bible does not make sense on the first,
seventh, etc, reading, but as long as you are willing to be openned
minded, things will start falling in place.
God Bless,
Larry Bevard
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|From: Larry Bevard
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Re: Bible
|Date: 15 Mar 96 01:17:00
EID:2c5a 206f0a20
MSGID: 1:3615/51 0002379f
Preston,
PS>3. I believe that Jesus was an actual, historical personage. I do not
PS>believe that he was divine, nor do I believe any of the tales attributed
PS>to him.
PS>
PS>I already have a Bible, a hangover from my fundamentalist days. I read
it
PS>often, and find it to be a good source of humor and horror.
PS>
I'm interested now, just what did make you change from a
fundamentalist to the realist you are now? I'm not wanting to make
sport of you or to try to re-convert you, I'm just interested in some of
the reasons.
Yours,
Larry Bevard
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|From: Larry Bevard
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: children
|Date: 15 Mar 96 01:17:00
EID:2dfe 206f0a20
MSGID: 1:3615/51 000237b0
Preston,
Good Discussion! I would like to add some to the discussion.
PS>Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Jim Germiquet children wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS>
PS>PS> It boils down to making a "lesser of two evils choice."
PS>
PS>JG> an interesting choice of words :-) Is there no choice that isn't
evil
PS>JG> ?
PS>
PS>IMO, no. You can have an abortion--which snuffs out a potential life.
You
PS>can give the kid up for adoption--which does enormous psychological damage
PS>to the kid and to the mother. You can raise the kid yourself--which will
PS>do quite a bit of damage if the mother and the rest of society clearly
PS>communicates to the child the idea of "you were not wanted." It also
PS>doesn't do anything to relieve population pressure.
To add to the problem, there is psychological trama to the woman
that had the abortion also. Adoption can be handled better than you
indicate, even though I agree that it often leads the child to think
there was something wrong with then, that's why mommy didn't want me.
Now a day, a single mom is nouthing strange, so the social stigma is not
there, and as far as the child feeling not wanted, that is the mom's
fault if this happens, and I know it does. but, it can be handled. As
far as relieving population pressure, I don't think this enters into the
thought process very often.
PS>JG> Of course we must teach our children the proper way to deal with
their
PS>JG> sexual urges. That is a moot point in terms of abortion. Once the
PS>
PS>Excellent. Let's start with sex education classes--explicit ones. None
of
PS>this dancing around the issue, no being puritanical about it. Tell people
PS>exactly what can happen when they have sex, and what they can do to make
PS>it safer for themselves and their potential offspring.
I don't think this is what Jim means, after all, in areas that have
explicit sex education in the schools, the praganacy rate has gone up.
But, in areas that has taught absencenesce and responcibility, the rate
goes down.
PS>JG> child has been conceived, is it a sin to kill it ? There are many
PS>
PS>You tell me. I'm not a big believer in sin anymore.
I would believe it is.
PS>JG> options. To me the best option if possible is to have the child marry
PS>JG> the father and raise the child in a loving relationship with help
from
PS>JG> family and friends if necessary.
PS>
PS>You're being unclear. Don't you mean, "have the mother marry the father"?
PS>But I digress. While this represents a "best of both worlds" scenario,
it
PS>is not the most realistic one, nor the most likely one.
I should hope that that is what he means! And you are right, in
that some times it is not a realistic option, but it is one that need to
be looked at. To often, that is not even thought of as an option. It
is usually the man that will not take the responsiblity to care for the
child, wanted or unwanted, thinking that it is the womans problem or
that the state will take care of them. Sad, but true.
PS>PS> to improve themselves, then they will always be at the bottom, and
a
PS>PS> self-perpetuating cycle occurs.
PS>
PS>JG> Does it follow that because a man is poor, he must also sin ? That
a
PS>
PS>According to some, it follows that a man who is rich must also sin. We
PS>can discuss economics and religious ethics all you like, but you must
PS>remember that these aren't pleasant times to be poor in. Frequently,
the
PS>poor are victimized in many areas--by the state, by their employers,
by
PS>the rich, and by themselves. They lack the economic power to defend what
PS>little they have and suffer as a result.
Heck, us who would normally be consided middle income lacks power to
do anything except survive. But, survive we do as do lower income
people. This is still no excuse for a man to conceive a child and then
not be responsible enough to marry the woman and take care of them.
PS>JG> poor man cannot love ? Yes life may be more difficult, even impossible
PS>JG> in some cases. But Jesus was not a man of material wealth and his
life
PS>JG> and especially his death I doubt would be considered an easy road
to
PS>JG> walk. Should we allow adversity to warp our souls ?
PS>
PS>You are apparently suggesting a situation in which the populace becomes
PS>ripe for rebellion--or for escapism by other means. This escapism can
PS>take the form of drug abuse, spousal abuse, criminal activity, or
PS>plunging into religion--yours included. Remember, Christianity spread
PS>fastest in its early days amongst the slave population. Tell me that
you
PS>aren't trying to establish this situation again, or that you are at least
PS>against it.
We can see this escapism in all walks of life. It seems to be the
ostrich sydrome, what we done know can't hurt us. I think we are see
what you discribed in the world today, alot of people feels that the are
owed a living so will not work, will take what they need, will not take
any responsiblities for their lives. I feel things will only get worse
instead of better. As far as religion being a form of escapism, I am
sure some uses it as that, but there are others that sees it as a
responsiblity not only to themselves but the world. they practice what
the preach and try to help as best they can.
PS>JG> I wish more effort was put into birth control, than in killing unborn
PS>JG> babies after the fact. The majority of abortions are abortions for
PS>JG> convenience. That woman who drowned her two children in her care
did
PS>JG> nothing more than abort them a little further on in their
PS>JG> developement.
PS>
PS>Look at it like this: many anti-abortionists tell us that 30 million
people
PS>have been killed since the Roe v. Wade decision in '73. I look at it
in
PS>another light: think of how much harder things would be if we had 30
PS>million extra people in this country.
I personally find that a sick attitude. I do not think of abortion
as an option, and we can always find room for one more person in our
lives if we try.
Larry Bevard
___
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|From: Robert Pappas
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Re: Friends
|Date: 14 Mar 96 17:06:00
EID:ca01 206e88c0
MSGID: 1:363/309 56e6ef8c
PID: RA 2.02 8069
> > Come on every one get saved, I would like to see you in
> > Heaven some
> > day!
> RP> well do me a favor and prepare me a room; kill yourself now...
> Hi Robert
> Good to hear from you! I would love to do you a favour, as
> long
> as it doesn't conflict with what the bible says. It seems
> you have
> not really read the bible yourself or you would would not
> have ask
> me to (kill myself). That is ok, there are lots of people
> that make
> that mistake. To be honest with you some people have even
> offered
> to do it for me. But that to is against what the bible
damn that is what i get for reading the reader digest version...
> teaches, so I
> can't take them up on there offer.
> Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge
> against
> the children of thy people, but thou shalt [love thy]
> neighbour as
> thyself: I the LORD.
well; as long as xians practiced this tenant i wouldnt have a problem
with them but it seems that there is such a substantial percentage
that want to shove their belief and belief rules down my throat.
i trust that you are not one of these
in fact i have a good friend who is a very devout xian but we have
plenty in common to keep the friendship thriving...
> So Robert, as you can see I hold not ill feelings against
> you!
nor i you; i just would love for the majority of religiods to meet
the object of their worship in an expeditious manner...
> Until we chat again Robert, Keep the sunny side up!
sometimes sunny side up but usually over easy...
---
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: Motives
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:02:02
EID:b90f 206e7040
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA63
AB> Very Spinozean. But are you sure there isn't just a subtler and
AB> better hidden ulterior motive driving you to do this, so that you're
AB> really just reacting after all?
I keep working on it. However my ulterior motives are usually looked over
for a while with lots of my favorite question, WHY"
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Question?
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:06:20
EID:18de 206e70c0
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA64
NS> Just as the green M&Ms are aphrodisiacs, the blue M&Ms are the
NS> host. At least, in _my_ pantheon of chocolate . . . };)
Of course you could go with the yellow, east; red, south; blue, west; and
green, north. M&M's are useful for that type of working. Of course you
can also make a pretty good set of symbology for a Christian path too if
you work at it. Uh..... let's see... red, yeah, that's blood ok. Green...
green pastures from Psalms.... blue... Mediterranian sea? Heheheh we could
have a bit of fun working out that... Even Kaballah works with M&Ms.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Abusers
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:09:09
EID:83f5 206e7120
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA65
JG> And there was some talk about how Nicole Simpson said she like to get
JG> O.J. worked up because it excited her to see him angry. The
JG> excitement,"living on the edge". With that kind of psychological
JG> manipulation happening
JG> is it any wonder that some people become "abusive". I myself had
JG> personalexperience with a female who wanted me to help her get
JG> together with anexboyfriend because she wanted to dump him for spite.
Unfortunately I have to agree with these types needing assistance. However,
isn't it really just two abusers interacting? Abuse doesn't just mean the
physical type.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Sacrifice
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:17:02
EID:a120 206e7220
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA66
JG> spiritual life. When it comes a choice between dying or murdering
JG> anotherperson which would you choose. Idi Amin it is said used to
It would probably depend on the circumstances and how I felt about that
other person.... were they attempting to murder me of their own free will....
or was there a motivator behind them that I could attempt to influence.
Maybe I could break the control one had over the other. I'd give it a shot
if time allowed.
I don't see such decisions as black/white. I try to look a little deeper
at situations around me. I admit it doesn't work 100% of the time, and
I make my mistakes. But it's the only approach to life I feel comfortable
with.
JG> Or when you have enough food for one to survive and two people. Do
JG> yousplit the food ? do you fight over the food ? do you sacrifice
None of the above. We go out the back door and gather food from the nature
trail heheheh. Of course I realize by the time one reaches that stage of
hunger, rational decisions would probably no longer apply, nor would any
social constraints. My decission again would have to depend on circumstances.
Hopefully, I'd choose to act before we got to that situation and increase
our food availability in some form.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Resources
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:21:33
EID:f7eb 206e72a0
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA67
DC> All knowledge is gleaned from the works of others. As Einstein,
DC> I think, said: "I can only see this far because I am standing
DC> on the shoulders of giants."
Or at least we should avail ourselves of as many of those as possible before
we try to do a lot of independant thought. It's hard to make a educated
guess, without the education.
DC> Those are the basic instincts. As of late, the comfort drive has
DC> taken far to large a roll in the species.
Agreed!
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Colors
|Date: 14 Mar 96 14:27:07
EID:f93f 206e7360
MSGID: 1:352/266 3148CA68
DC> gets immediate feedback from those around him. Though he can't
DC> directly see the colors, he knows that they do not match.
Then to be certain that something exists that we can not personally perceive,
we listen to others and go with the overpowering majority? Uh..... I'd
probably be the blind man who said, "Well, I acknowledge that you believe
you perceive color, and that's fine with me, but I don't perceive it so
what other clues can I learn to help me compensate? (Hey there are the
rare colorblind person who can feel color to some degree. A few blind people
too.) I would NOT be the colorblind person who said, "OH, since I can't
expereince color... it does not exist."...... I'd probably be a maybe.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Lasting
|Date: 14 Mar 96 23:13:25
EID:2476 206eb9a0
MSGID: 1:352/266 314902A2
MM> Second one is the moderator on FIDO Magick. He at least
MM> goes by the title.
JH> We've already had him in here. He's a little prig who doesn't
JH> like "bad words", "personal attacks" or being asked to substantiate
JH> his claims with actual evidence. He didn't last very long.
Hmmmmm well, I prefer to avoid the bad words, and personal attacks too,
but I don't mind being questioned whether or not I can always substantiate
every thing I say or not. Usually I have a reasonable view on things and
am pretty adaptable to discussion styles. I guess we will have to see how
long I manage to remain afloat in the sea of sharks.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Port in the storm
|Date: 14 Mar 96 23:18:46
EID:9304 206eba40
MSGID: 1:352/266 314902A3
KM> Not just that. Much of the entertainment comes from my fellow
KM> heathens.We have a large number of truly funny people here.
I've noticed the satirical humor myself, and I do gain some enjoyment from
the intelligent applications of satire, but I don't find some of the exchanges
that stimulating.
KM> Yes, but that port has no right to exist if, by existing, it is
KM> hurtingsomeone else. Fundamentalism hurts other people, and that is
KM> theprimary reason I object to it.
I agree that no person should force their views down another's throat. That
is why my own personal definition of fundy is the hard line style of "My
way or the highway". It exists in every faith, and among many of the unfaithed
as well. I object to the attitude, but do not necessarily tie it to a particular
form of religious belief. I have reasons that I choose to be eclectic but
even very eclectic people are sometimes just as obstinate... that is what
I really don't like to see. Pusy and obstinate and irrational aren't held
to any one path.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Philosophy
|Date: 14 Mar 96 23:20:08
EID:cf8c 206eba80
MSGID: 1:352/266 314902A4
MM>That's what most things boil down to. People are driven by the desire
MM>to have fun! (And here I thought it was only girls.)
KM> Of course. It's a biological imperative.
But when does one persons right to have fun begin to tresspass on anothers
territory?
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: christology
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:29
EID:e5b4 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771ba
TID: GE 1.11+
LW>Medically, the definition is usually a functional one, as mentioned
LW>above--something about cessation of heartbeat for a certain length of
time or
LW>the absence of measurable brain activity.
You'll note, of course, that cessation of heartbeat doesn't mean diddly
except in special circumstances where an actual determination of more
significant factors isn't possible. Which is to say, if we're talking
about death as a general concept, we'd better leave "cessation of
heartbeat" out of things; it doesn't cut it.
LW>In practice, these functional
LW>definitions do not necessarily specify permanence. That is why there
are
LW>numerous cases of people being declared dead by a doctor or nurse and
then
LW>reviving.
Do you know of *any* case of a person whose brain activity has been
reduced to zero, and survived?
LW>It's all a matter of what definition of death you use.
Well, according to your "cessation of heartbeat", then we have to assume
that every doctor who performs a heart transplant is a killer - since
his "victim" not only has the heart stop, but actually removed.
Obviously, this is absurd. Sure, if *left* in that condition, the
person would die - but he ain't dead yet, or there wouldn't be any
point in continuing the operation, would there?
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Die without honor!
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Epistemology 1/2
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:31
EID:4848 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771bb
TID: GE 1.11+
LW>It is very similar to a new science in its formative stages. At first,
there
LW>is no agreement among scientists. Lots of different theories are floating
LW>around, each with proponents and opponents. Over time, most of the theories
LW>are falsified, and scientists gradually settle into a dominant viewpoint
that
LW>most of them have agreed is the best description of reality in that
LW>particular branch of science.
LW>When it comes to spirit, IMO we are in the early formative stages of
our
LW>views and attitudes.
Funny, though, isn't it. I mean, science in its modern form has been
around what, a couple hundred years? And a scientific theory is usually
debunked - if it is going to be - in a rather shorter period, no?
Yet when it comes to something such as "gods", the notion has been
around for umpteen millenia, and in all that time nobody has been
able to offer even a method of detecting the thing being discussed -
let alone agreed on its properties, its causes, its effects, its
impact upon the universe, or, indeed, anything else about it.
Hell, even those who limit their discussions to a *particular*
"god" can't agree what its properties are - even when given a
handbook which supposedly derives from that entity itself.
Exactly how long should we give these people to figure out what they
are talking about before we conclude that they're all a pack of
wackos?
LW>Stating that the objects of spiritual seeking do not exist because there
is
LW>no agreement about them is equivalent to stating that the cosmos does
not
LW>exist because there is no agreement on a Grand Unified Theory that can
LW>combine relativity and quantum mechanics, and bring the four known forces
LW>under one theory.
Not quite.
Do we have a means of detecting the existence of matter and energy?
Do we have a means of detecting the existence of deities/spirits?
Do we have a means of comprehending the properties of matter and energy?
Do we have a means of comprehending the properties of deities/spirits?
I could make lists such as this all day long. What does it tell us?
It tells us that while we might not have *all* the answers when it
comes to understanding the universe, that sets us miles apart from
those on the deity/spirit side of the issue, who don't seem to have
*any* answers, except whatever makes them feel happy at that time.
In short, it strikes me as the difference between "It appears to be
this way because repeated independant observation supports the notion
that it is this way" versus "It is this way because I say so."
Sure, you can't state *as an absolute* that the one is correct and
the other is wrong - but one way leads to stultification while the
other allows us to advance and learn.
LW> KB> there has to
LW> KB> be cogitation for that to occur, and I defy you to cogitate upon
LW> KB> that which you cannot determine any physical properties for.
LW>You defy me? It's a simple task. You can do it too. Cogitate upon truth,
LW>beauty, logic, the laws of mathematics. None of those have any physical
LW>properties, yet we can cogitate on them all day if we wish.
Really? Okay. Without applying *physical* properties, such as the
interactions of photons upon your eye, think about "beauty".
No, you *cannot* consider "That mountain is beautiful", as that would
involve the existence of the mountain, the light which impacted your
eyes from that mountain, and so forth.
You can't even imagine a purely "imaginary" mountain, as it would
be based upon your observations of *physical* mountains and *physical*
light.
What you would have to do, then, is to "imagine" something which has
absolutely no relation whatsoever to anything at all in your entire
physical existence and experience, and then, without attempting to
understand it in terms of physically-defined observations such as
sight, or sound, or smell, determine whether or not it had "beauty".
Sure, the "beauty" that you see on your screen is merely a handful
of electrons; however, I defy you to cogitate upon "beauty" at
any level without involving the purely physical at some level.
(PS: I'm going to grant, for this little experiment, that "you"
- your mind - is not a part of "the physical" for these purposes.
That is, the physical movement of currents in the brain will not
impact the attempt to cogitate "beauty" in a non-physical manner.)
LW> KB> That is, I'll define "concrete" such that you won't confuse it
LW> KB> with talcum or hard drives or granite; you define "spirit" such
LW> KB> that I don't confuse it with delusion, or mistake, or self-deception,
LW> KB> or wishful thinking, or alcoholic stupor.
LW>The problem is, we all have a great deal of empirical knowledge of material
LW>things, but we have very little empirical knowledge of spiritual things.
Why is that, do you suppose? I mean, with all the people who claim they
hear God, or Jesus, with all the people who claim their prayers have
been answered, why is it that we still can't even agree *what* it is
we're talking about?
LW>Contrary to what you are implying, when religious mystics gather together
(as
LW>they did at the 1993 World Parliament of Religions in Chicago) and talk
about
LW>their spiritual experiences, they immediately recognize the experience
of the
LW>other mystics as variations on their own experience. They recognize that
the
LW>spiritual "objects" described as encountered by other mystics match the
LW>spiritual "objects" they themselves have encountered.
Really? So when I walk in and tell them that Odin has talked to me and
denounced this upstart "God" critter, the Christian leaders of the world
are all going to think to themselves, "Ahh. Another fellow holy man
who has had contact with a supreme being!"
Not bloody likely. Much more likely they're going to brand me a heretic
and chase me out - even though I may be absolutely sincere in my claim.
LW>_You_ may not be able to distinguish spirit from delusion, but that is
LW>because you (apparently) have not experienced spirit directly yet.
Odd, isn't it? I mean, I keep looking for even the simplest little bit
of evidence that these things exist, and can't find any. Oh, a lot of
folks tell me "you gotta have faith", but then, if I simply adopt a
faith, I haven't accomplished anything, have I? I mean, a faith in
a god, or in a cheese sandwich, is still nothing more than believing
in the unevidence for no real reason whatsoever.
LW>Those who
LW>have can quite easily distinguish the two--and they agree with each other
LW>when they describe the nature of the distinction.
Funny; they haven't been able to tell *us* how they tell the difference.
LW>Trying to get consensus on spirit among people who have no direct experience
LW>of it would be like trying to get consensus on skyscrapers from people
who
LW>lived 3,000 years ago.
>>> Continued to next message
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Error! Low density drive detected. Use X-44 photon blast?
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Anthony Grigor-scott
|Sub: Bible Verses 1/2
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:31
EID:7b10 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771bc
TID: GE 1.11+
AG> DH> Does anyone keep a list of contradictory, bizarre and genrally absurd
AG> DH> Biblical quotes I could used to needle this fellow a little bit?
I'm
AG>There is no such list because there is no contradiction. Those apparent
AG>contradictions are where we lack faith (or understanding).
Okay, let's see. These are some notes I have, from various sources.
**************************************************************************
Action ................... Samuel/Kings ............... Chronicles
Taken by David II Sam. 8.4: I Chr. 18.4:
. 1,700 horsemen 1,000 chariots
. 20,000 foot soldiers 7,000 horsemen
. 20,000 foot sldrs
.
Ammonite mercenaries II Sam. 10.6: I Chr. 19.7:
. 20,000 + 1,000 + 32,000 chariots
+
. 12,000 men army of king of
. Maacah
.
Slain by David II Sam. 24.9: I Chr. 19.18:
. 700 charioteers + 7,000 charioteers
+
. 40,000 horsemen + 40,000 horsemen
.
Census figures II Sam. 24.9: I Chr. 21.5:
. Israel 800,000 Israel 1,100,000
. Judah 500,000 Judah 470,000
.
Price of threshing II Sam. 24.24: I Chr. 21.25:
floor 50 shekels 600 shekels
.
Stalls for chariot I Kings 4.26: II Chr. 9.25:
horses 40,000 4,000
.
Capacity of the 'sea' I Kings 7.26: II Chr. 4.5:
. 2,000 baths 3,000 baths
**************************************************************************
If there is any area that one would suppose would be cohesive and accurate
it
should be in the area of the genealogy of Jesus, David and Adam. However,
even an area of such importance is contradictory and replete with obvious,
glaring errors.
(*) Definite disparity. Note first is as early as Jesus' grandfather.
(?) Most likely simply a spelling error.
(!) Out of sync similarity.
(1) Common to both but out of sync.
(2) Common to both but out of sync.
(3) Back in sync.
(4) End of last common sync.
(5) Start in sync to Adam.
...Matthew.........Luke............I.Chronicles
...------------....------------....------------
...Jesus...........Jesus
...Joseph..........Joseph
.*.Jacob.........*.Heli
...Matthan.......?.Matthat
...Eleazar.......?.Levi
...Eliud...........Melchi
...Achim...........Janna
...Sadoc...........Joseph
...Azor............Mattathias
.!.Eliakim.........Amos
...Abiud...........Naum
...................Esli
...................Nagge
...................Maath
...................Mattathias
...................Semei
...................Joseph
...................Juda
...................Joanna
...................Rhesa
.1.Zorobabel.....1.Zorobabel
.2.Salathiel.....2.Salathiel
...Jechonias.......Neri
...Josias..........Melchi
...Amon............Addi
...Manasses........Cosam
...Ezekias.........Elmodam
...Achaz...........Er
...Joatham.......?.Jose
...Ozias.........?.Eliezer
...Joram.........?.Jorim
...................Matthat
...................Levi
...................Simeon
...................Juda
...Josaphat......?.Joseph
...Asa.............Jonan
...Abia..........!.Eliakim
...Roboam..........Melea
...................Menan
...................Mattatha
.*.Solomon.......*.Nathan
.3.David.........3.David.........3.David...(2:15)
...Jesse...........Jesse...........Jesse
...Obed............Obed............Obed
...Booz............Booz..........?.Boaz
...Salmon..........Salmon........?.Salma
...Naasson.......?.Naasson.......?.Nahshon
...Aminadab........Aminadab......?.Amminadab
...Aram............Aram..........?.Ram
...Esrom...........Esrom.........?.Hezron
...Phares..........Phares........?.Pharez
...Judas.........?.Juda..........?.Judah
.*.Jacob.........*.Jacob.........*.Israel..(2:1)
...Isaac...........Isaac...........Isaac
.4.Abraham.......4.Abraham.........Abraham.(1:34)
...................Thara.........?.Terah...(1:26)
...................Nachor........?.Nahor
...................Saruch........?.Serug
...................Ragau.........?.Reu
...................Phalec........?.Peleg
...................Heber.........?.Eber
...................Sala.........4?.Shelah
.................*.Cainan
...................Arphaxad......5.Arphaxad
...................Sem...........?.Shem
...................Noe...........?.Noah
...................Lamech..........Lamech
...................Mathusala.....?.Methuselah
...................Enoch.........?.Henoch
...................Jared.........?.Jered
...................Maleleel......?.Mahalaleel
...................Cainan........?.Kenan
...................Enos..........?.Enosh
...................Seth..........?.Sheth
...................Adam............Adam
**************************************************************************
Arpachshad's son was Shelah - Gen 11:12
Arpachshad's grandson was Shelah - Luke 3:35-36
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6
God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8
God forbids killing - Ex 20:13
God commands killing - Ex 32:27
>>> Continued to next message
---
* SLMR 2.1a * She keeps saying I don't listen to her, or something.
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
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PATH: 153/792 7097 969 800 270/101 218/801
|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Friends
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:32
EID:439c 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771bd
TID: GE 1.11+
BJ> I just offer the truth as far as I know it, quoting when ever
BJ>possible from the King James Bible.
We don't need quotes from *any* Bible, except in very specific situations,
such as determining the exact wording of a passage, or putting the
passage back into context.
BJ>There is only one God we should
BJ>worship and that is Jesus Christ!
Really? Okay, since you state this as an absolute - "There is" as
opposed to "I believe there is" - prove your assertion. You must
be able to demonstrate that there really is a "Jesus Christ", that
this "Jesus Christ" really is a god, and that there are no other
gods in existence, anywhere.
Have fun.
BJ>God us told not to be deceived by
BJ>false teachers and devil worshippers.
Funny; God hasn't told *me* anything, so why do you say "we"?
Oh, sure, there's an old book full of claims, but then I don't
believe in trolls simply because some old book says so.
BJ> Lets all together now: Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
BJ> Let him know your name and that you are loving him!
Jesus, according to your mythos, is God, right? Are you saying that
God can't even figure out my name? He needs me to tell him? Gads,
what a weenie deity you worship.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: drool game
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:34
EID:94aa 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771be
TID: GE 1.11+
DW>I'll give $20 to whoever makes Mikey leave for a month.
Does that include Mike himself? ;)
---
* SLMR 2.1a * A wok is what you throw at a wabbit...
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Hymie
|Sub: Hebes
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:35
EID:07f3 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771bf
TID: GE 1.11+
HY>Is this the "fundy kike" conferenece?
Not really, but if you are a fundy kike, feel free to join in.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * The irony of life is that no one gets out alive.
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Your Daily Death Cult
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:35
EID:19ca 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c0
TID: GE 1.11+
JG>Not really. You have to remember that the wife doesn't HAVE to be
JG>subordinate, she CHOOSES to in a good marriage. A man should not have
JG>to force a woman to give him the title of "head" of the family.
JG>She should trust him enough to allow him to have the final say in
JG>matters they have discussed together and have not been able to agree
JG>upon.
Okay, so why not allow a woman to be head of the household? There are
many couples in which the woman is far more sensible, at least in
terms of household administration, than the man.
JG>It is not a question of "obedience" like a dog, It is a question of
JG>willingness. If the woman is "unwilling" then that is her choice. But
JG>what does that do to the relationship ?
It makes the relationship one of _equals_.
JG>I never said it was the man's body, however remember that the child
JG>within the woman, IS half of the man.
You mean if I get a woman pregnant, I immediately lose 100 pounds?
Oh, goodie! (PS: All you women out there: I'm seeking volunteers...) ;)
JG>I am not talking about the marriages that we see today, I am talking
of
JG>a marriage where the husband and wife respect each other.
I see. Today's marriages are based upon, oh, the idea of woman as
subservient instead of respected equal.
Oops. Isn't that what you're suggesting *is* a proper marriage?
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Got my Uzi, got some Scotch...let's go to Disneyland!
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: ADOLPH HITLER
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:37
EID:43a9 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c1
TID: GE 1.11+
JG>How do we know wind exists ? By its effect on objects. Just as we know
JG>the wind exists by its effect on physical objects, we know that the
JG>spirit of God exists by it's effects on the spirit of people.
Fine. But the effects of wind - especially powerful wind - on physical
objects isn't readily confused with, say, the action of kittens or
ham sandwiches.
The effects of "God", on the other hand, are readily confused with
the effects of everything from delusion to positive thinking. Since
you fail to provide a method for telling the one from the others,
we see no reason to presume that the effects you describe have any
but purely natural explanations.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Lack of any Evidence what
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:38
EID:a76d 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c2
TID: GE 1.11+
JB> FR> What's wrong with Pixic evolution?
JB>Nothing, if you've got a viable mechanism for the Pixies to be meddling
JB>about at the DNA level's particle physics. Have you?
Yes. Unfortunately, you Earthlings aren't cleared for third-level
information. Hell, you haven't even developed FTL travel, and you
want us to reveal the workings of Parno's wavefront mechanics?
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Why did Kamakazi pilots bother to wear helmets?
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Kenny is back into his de
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:38
EID:09d5 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c3
TID: GE 1.11+
KS>Yer a real hoot, Mac. You don't care about things you don't care
KS>about and don't think about things you don't think about.
KS>Do you read the toilet paper while you take a shit?
After. Like reading tea leaves.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * WARRANTS!! We don't need no steenking warrants!
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:39
EID:10dd 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c4
TID: GE 1.11+
KM>I don't HAVE to accept anything. I believe the Bible, if it turns out
that it
KM>is not real, I will never know it. I don't and cannot accept that there
is
KM>any God except the God that is in the Bible. If he's not real, there
is no
KM>others.
Try that again, dimwit. If God ain't real, then his little tale of
"I am the One True God" becomes meaningless, which opens the door
to their being umpteen million gods.
However, there still may be umpteen million gods - your belief that
there is only one doesn't immediately render the others non-existent;
it simply says you only believe in one.
KM>You can engage yourself in your thought experiment, I will not participate.
Why are you so afraid to *think*, Ken? It really doesn't hurt that
much, especially when you get in practice.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Think for youself, or the government will do it for you.
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 7107/9
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Hardy's full of what-else
|Date: 14 Mar 96 19:21:41
EID:21c9 206e9aa0
PID: GVBBS 0.23 Reg
MSGID: 1:153/792 314771c5
TID: GE 1.11+
MH> But why is it that there are people who are well-educated in
MH> disciplines where evolution is assumed, who hold degrees from
MH> prestigious non-sectarian institutions, who reject evolution if
MH> evolution is so obviously true?
Why are there people with solid mathematical or otherwise technical
backgrounds, who nevertheless look at a computer as some sort of
incarnation of evil, run by the blackest of magic?
The fact that someone is educated, literate, technical, or even a
genius does not necessitate that they will behave rationally in
all situations.
---
* SLMR 2.1a * No tagline today, I have a headache!
--- GrapeVine BBS v0.23 Reg
* Origin: Mists of Distortion BBS. Vancouver, BC. (1:153/792)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 828 831 920 969 7097 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
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SEEN-BY: 7107/9
PATH: 153/792 7097 969 800 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: All
|Sub: Gone for the weekend
|Date: 13 Mar 96 04:28:11
EID:57a0 206d2380
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 31482450
Just to let youse guyses know, I'm going to the Ozarks for the weekend,
and won't be able to respond to any messages during that time. I have
1600+ messages to read / respond to (maybe) at the moment, so I've not
left, I'm just swamped by real life. =)
Happy 'Smoking,
... "Prejudice? I just don't like *you*." Kevin McKenzie
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: Call Congress for Free to stop the Anti-Terrorist Bill
|Date: 14 Mar 96 09:51:46
EID:ce81 206e4e60
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 1483d25a
-=> Note:
Forwarded (from: netmail) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd.
Originally from Matthew Gaylor (1:382/87.0) to terry liberty-parker.
Original dated: Mar 13 '96, 13:50
Apparently-to: Terry.Liberty-Parker@804.ima.infomail.com
Received: from bronze.coil.com (bronze.coil.com [198.4.94.1]) by villa.fc.net
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To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: freematt@coil.com (Matthew Gaylor)
Subject: Call Congress for Free to stop the Anti-Terrorist Bill
Call your Congressional Representative for free. Let him/her know that
you
will settle for nothing less than a no vote on the
anti-freedom-anti-terrorist bill or it's various compromises:
You can be connected to the House switchboard by calling:
1-800-962-3524
Ask to speak to your Representative and demand a no vote and do it today!
Regards, Matt-
************** E-Mail: freematt@coil.com ************
Matthew Gaylor
1933 E.Dublin-Granville Rd., # 176
Columbus, OH 43229
I maintain the Electronic Frontier Foundations' Online Activism Resource
List FAQ. An ACTION/EFF FAQ. Please send me sources of privacy/free-speech
civil-liberties advocacy and general online activism tool/resources. Please
send your hardcopy materials to my snail address.
Available on the web at: http://www.eff.org/pub/Activism/activ_resource.faq
And archived at: ftp.eff.org, /pub/Activism/activ_resource.faq
######################TANSTAAFL
"It would be the greatest mistake, certainly, to think that concessions
mean
peace. Nothing of the kind. Concessions are nothing but a new form of
war." - V. I. Lenin
___
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 14 Mar 96 13:38:46
EID:dca3 206e6cc0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 14877cb0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 63aca6fb
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
JJH> On Mar 12 09:55 96, Terry Liberty-Parker of 1:382/804 wrote:
JJH>> Not only had they ammassed a large arsenal (the above
JJH>> only represents one year's addition to what they already
JJH>> owned), but as evidenced by the chemical purchaces they
JJH>> were planning on manufacturing explosives.
TL> Might justify an investigation; not an assault.
JJH> The above are not grounds for an investigation, they ARE THE
JJH> RESULTS of the investigation that was conducted.
JJH> How do you think the situation should have been dealt with? Do
JJH> you really think that sending them a postcard asking them to
JJH> please stop would have worked?
Do you really think there are no options between the extremes of postcard/tank
thru residence?
We pay public officials to come up with APPROPRIATE responses to crime.
I don't have to come up with a competitive proposal to refute the INAPPROPRIATNESS
of driving a tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and children.
Do YOU think I have to, before stating the obvious?
JJH> And please try to reply without informing me YET AGAIN that the
JJH> only daily newspaper in Austin has the largest daily
JJH> distribution in Austin. I already know this.
That info is included with the reference to deal with those whose emotional
denial is so intense that they claim that newspaper is just some little
weekly shopper; and thus dismiss the account reported.
Enjoy,
Terry
--- timEd 1.10+
* Origin: LibertyBBS, Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Mike Carr
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Miracles: quotes
|Date: 14 Mar 96 20:37:04
EID:17a6 206ea4a0
MSGID: 1:284/120 6f0308c4
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011262
-> "'God works in many ways his wonders to perform.' But He's not a
-> skillful mechanic. A man drives over a cliff and 'by a miracle'
-> he only breaks his back. It would be more divine if he were a
-> better driver and stayed on the road." --- Paul Goodman Miracles have
been very well documented by skeptics and physicians at Lourdes in France.
A study of any one of those miracles certified there is very convincing.
It becomes a question of evidence which is compelling enough to make prejudice
against the possibility of miracles vanish. Why not miracles? Twenty
centuries of miracles linked together by a common source which is Christ
demonstrates there widespread belief. The least we could expect from a
creator God would be miracles that demonstrate His power (not His existence)
and remind us of His presence. They would also certify any revelation given.
A miracle at Lourdes Madame Bire became blind in February 1908. Medical
exam showed blindness was due to atrophy of the papilla; in other words,
the optic nerve was withered at the point where it enters the eye. Obviously,
there was organic reason for her blindness. No one can see with such a
condition. On August 5, 1908 Madame Bire received Holy Communion at the
Grotto at Lourdes. At 10:15 a.m., the priest who was carrying the Blessed
Sacrament in procession passed beside her. Madame Bire at once saw the
statue of the Blessed Virgin. She was taken at once to the permanent Medical
Bureau at Lourdes where doctors are always available. Atheistic Doctors
are welcome to examine cases to their hearts content (one such was the famous
Dr. Alexis Carrel, who came to scoff, but left a convert). A Dr. Lainey,
an oculist, examined her. What he found was even more astonishing than
a miraculous cure: She could read even the smallest letters of a newspaper,
but the OPTIC NERVE WAS STILL WITHERED! After a month, another eye examination
by three specialists found that the nerve had been restored. Have a nice
day Michael
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Adventure Zone BBS, Linn Creek, Missouri, U.S.A. (1:284/120)
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PATH: 284/120 289/80 284/12 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: David "Messiah" Worrell
|Sub: Re: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 12 Mar 96 16:32:31
EID:bbca 206c8400
A LITTLE HELP FROM SP:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% David "Messiah" Worrell,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JG>> I can throw you a rope , I can beg you to
JG>> come back.
NS> So you believe that David is Jesus, huh? David, do you want to
NS> take umbrage at that, or should I?
NS> BTW, does this make David officially a messiah now?
D"W> And my grandmother said I would never amount to anything :)
It's a Kodak moment, I'm sure.
D"W> There's gonna be some changes around here, I can tell you that much.
Well, are we going to see your famous turning-wine-into-water miracle
or are you going to feed all of us with half a hot dog and a day old
bun?
Makes _my_ mouth water . . . };)
BTW, does this mean that you and JJ have to duke it out, since he's
risen from the grave and is therefore probably a Messiah as well? Or
will you both open a little shop off the mall together?
... "And to my cat Mittens I leave my entire, vast...BOOT TO THE HEAD!!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/289 15 270/101 218/801
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:07:34
EID:20f6 206c38e0
US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% David Worrell,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
TP>> Do you actually HAVE an opinion on the AbortionSpeak ban?
DW>> Yes, I do. I have not chosen to share that opinion with you. The
DW>> opinion that I have chosen to share with you is that you are a
DW>> frightened, paranoid little git whose life is so empty that you
DW>> have to dream up vast conspiracies in order to make yourself feel
DW>> important.
NS> You forgot the part about the vestigial micro-genitals . . .
DW> I saw no need in rubbing salt into the wounds :)
Man, that reminds me of a joke:
Jesus decides that he's going to marry Mary Magdelene after all. After
the ceremony, the disciples accompany them down to the shore where a
boat lies waiting. Jesus takes Peter aside and asks him to keep the
guys there for the weekend and that he and his wife will be back on
Monday after the honeymoon. All this time Mary is panting and carrying
on, she can't wait to get to the bedroom. So the happy couple climb
into the boat and it vanishes from sight, crossing over to the other
side of the sea of Gallilea. The disciples hang around until Monday,
when they see the boat on the horizon. Truthfully, they hear the boat
before the see it, and as it get's closer, it's clear that the noise is
of some sailor cussing a blue streak. When the boat beaches Mary jumps
over the side and storms away into the dessert in a huff. The
disciples all gather around Jesus, who looks pretty put out.
"What's wrong, o Lord?" says Peter.
"Well, we were on our honeymoon," says Jesus.
"Yes?" says Peter.
"And we were kissing and drinking wine and just sorta fooling
around, you know?" says Jesus.
"Yeah, we know," say the disciples.
"And I reached down to touch her . . . you know . . ."
"Yes Lord?"
". . . and I healed it."
... "A person is a person, no matter how small." -- Dr. Seuss
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/289 15 270/101 218/801
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: CLAIMS
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:08:38
EID:1b47 206c3900
CLAIMS:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% Judith Bandsma,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
NS> \_|_|||||||||| __|_
NS> / |||| |||
MH> Just what is the thing above supposed to be, anyway?
NS> Ogham, an Irish form of writing, or more exactly, incising.
JB> Actually, it looks more like the christian fish...after dinner.
I never thought of that. Kinda looks like slim pickings, eh? };)
... "A king, eh? Well, I didn't vote for you..."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204
SEEN-BY: 202/1207 203/15 289 821 1102 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 344/3 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/289 15 270/101 218/801
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: FOF "HATE" 2
|Date: 12 Mar 96 16:33:29
EID:12e5 206c8420
FOF "HATE" 2:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% Judith Bandsma,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
NS> Yep, it's a fun place. I do like the wharf more, though . . .
JB> Ooooh, yes. Especially since the seals have started hauling in at Pier
JB> 39. Much more comfortable to watch them than going out to Cliff House.
JB> I lived in the Sunset for a while...41st Street. We used to walk from
JB> there to Ashbury, to a little place called the 'Blue Unicorn'. It is
no
JB> longer there. But there IS a Ben and Jerry's on the corner of
JB> Haight/Ashbury. That almost makes up for it.
Ben and Jerrys does a lot for me in the way of making up for life's
problems. I think Deification of either or both of them should be next
on someone's agenda, especially whoever invented super chunk New York
Fudge.
... "Ahhh, AHHHH, I am Cornholio, aaaa aaa aaaahhhh AHHHHHH!" -- Beavis
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Re: Diversity and enrichment
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:12:10
EID:5448 206c3980
Re: Diversity and enrichment:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% Masochistic Maiden,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
NS> I think something like: well, we're getting them
NS> circumcised tomorrow, and then there's the ritual scarifications
NS> for the esoteric African religion we're taking them to on Tuesday,
NS> and at the Native American SunDance we'll get some hooks put in
NS> their chests, then mom's getting the clitorectomy from the Moslem
NS> sect that we're visiting on Friday . . . yeah, you won't recognize
NS> them at all by this time next week!
MM> exposure to ideas is the goal, not mandatory participation by minors
MM> in their parents religion. (Yeah, I know I'll get in trouble with
MM> this one on this echo.... sooooo go ahead and take the bait)
Bait? What bait? };)
NS> ... Barney and Baby Bop at Jurassic Park = A happy Velociraptor.
MM> Hehehhehehehehhehehhheheeheh great tag line.
Thanx, but I lifted it from elsewhere, though the one below _is_ mine:
... Happy as a Raptor in the marketplace. -- Mishearing of Beatles Song
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:14:16
EID:16b9 206c39c0
Re: Our Daily Alien:
1% Norbert Sykes, 10% J.J. Hitt,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JH>> A SPACE ALIENS DATE BOOK
NS> I'll have you know that I got a pain in my side from
NS> laughing at this one. }:) Nice to see that SOMEONE still
NS> has the ol' work ethic around here.
JH> I haven't seen any George Mooth's robo-posts lately.
JH> I'm disappointed. I've got almost a month's worth of
JH> material lined up and I need him as an excuse to post
JH> it all.
I tell you, those symbiotic relationships rarely work out well for both
parties concerned. I guess you could always post his stuff for him and
then respond to him, but I agree that that would take most of the fun
out of it.
... "Real Men Love Jesus." But wear a condom. -- Promise Keepers Motto
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: dinosaurs?
|Date: 12 Mar 96 16:35:56
EID:7fdd 206c8460
dinosaurs?:
1% Al Schroeder, 10% Anthony Grigor-Scott,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AS> "stupit"???
AS> Whatever the "Semtitc" people are.
AG> They are the descendants of Shem, Noah's son.
I can see we need the Universal Fundy Translator here:
BTW, you obviously meant semitic, not semtitc, right?
AS> However, he constantly slams people who are anti-SEMITIC. Such as
AS> yourself.
Phrase: UFT Translation:
AG> But I am PRO-Semitic. But I like the Jews and others
who live in that region.
AG> It is the Jews who are The Jews are against everyone,
anti-Semitic. including themselves, who live
in that region.
AG> The self-styled Jew is in The Jew wannabees, though Jews,
actuality a Gentile who are not Jews, but pretend to
impersonates the be the Jewish relations of
Israelites related to several long-dead Jews.
Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob.
AG> They stole the Land of The Jews who are not Jews stole
Israel from the Semitic the land of the Jews from
residents - both Arab everyone including themselves
and Hebrew Israelite who live in that region,
and they persecute and who they constantly put down,
treat as very much taunt, and malign as the true
second-rate citizens Jews in the land of the Jews.
the true Israelites in
the Land.
AG> How on earth can you Why do you hurt my feelings,
call me anti-Semitic saying that I say stuff against
when you do not the Jews and everyone else in
know _who_ these that region when you don't know
Semites are? which Jews and others that live
in that region I was speaking
of?
AG> When you read the When you read about the killing
newspapers about the of everyone including the Jews,
killing of the Semitic why are the Jewish Jew wannabees
peoples, why is it the the guilty ones and not me,
Israeli self-styled though I am mentioned?
Jew who is the guilty
party, and not me who
is named?
AG> I have no gun, and no I can't get it up, and have no
army. posse to help me.
AG> Unlike the late Unlike the head dead bad Jew guy
terrorist Prime in charge of the land of the
Minister of Israel, Jews, I'm not a bad guy who
I'm not a war made rules to maim everyone's
criminal who passed children, including Jews.
acts of Knesset to
maim young Semite
children.
You know, it makes a lot more sense after it get's translated . . .
... "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -Bishop
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: Heavenly Father
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:38:03
EID:53f6 206c3cc0
Heavenly Father:
1% Brad Jackson, 10% Anthony Grigor-Scott,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AG> Dear Brother Brad,
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
BJ> He is the first and the last, and besides him there is no God.
AG> Amen, there is only one God, not three.
AG> Kind regards,
AG> Anthony Grigor-Scott
You know, I've never seen a daisy chain this small before . . . };)
... "You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you." - Inigo Montoya
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: Angels or Demons???
|Date: 12 Mar 96 07:42:41
EID:b604 206c3d40
Angels or Demons???:
1% Kenneth Cavness, 10% Anthony Grigor-Scott,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AG> Dear Kenneth Cavness,
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> Satan cannot beget nor can he create. He is a sexless, fallen
AG>> spirit- being. Therefore he had to make use of the beast which was
AG>> closest to man and could even speak. Only after the curse, did the
AG>> serpent lose its human form and become a reptile.
KC> First, you make the claim that the serpent is Satan.
AG> Don't be dishonest. read the quote you are misrepresenting. The
AG> serpent is a beast, he was an animal. Satan is a spirit.
First, you're the liar here . . . it's very clear for anyone to read.
Secondly, what is the difference between a beast and an animal?
beast (bEEst) --noun
1. Any animal, esp. a large, four-footed animal.
2. A brutal person.
[< Lat. bestia]
animal (an'uh-muhl) --noun
1. An organism distinguished from a plant by structural and
functional characteristics, such as the ability to move.
2. A living being other than a human being.
3. A brutish person.
--adjective
1. Of or relating to animals.
2. Sensual or physical rather than spiritual.
[Lat]
Clearly, a beast IS an animal, and an animal can be a beast as well.
KC> From the Oxford English Dictionary (RESV), annotations:
KC> "3.1: Serpent: an ancient extrabiblical story tells how a serpent
KC> stole the plant which would have given immortality to human beings.
It
KC> was believed that when the snake shed its skin, it was rejuvenated.
KC> Cunning: there is a pun in the Heb. words for cunning and naked(v.7).
KC> Had made: a phrase deliberately used to show that the serpent was only
KC> one among God's many creatures. THE IDEA OF THE SERPENT AS A PRIMEVAL
KC> ADVERSARY OF GOD, INDEED, THE DEVIL, AROSE MUCH LATER (see Wis.2.24);
KC> so too the fixing of blame on the woman arose at a much later time
KC> (Ecclus. 25.24)" [emphasis mine]
AG> This is also both absurd and dishonest with no basis in Scripture.
Liar twice now. Get a clue.
... I HOPE life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it. -- Jack Handey
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: CommUnIOn.1
|Date: 12 Mar 96 08:44:07
EID:c83c 206c4580
Comminuion:
1% Jim Owens, 10% Anthony Grigor-Scott,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JO> From the passages in the Bible; "This is My blood..." and "This is My
JO> flesh...".
AG> From the Third Ammendment to the American Constitution I read, ``No
AG> Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house...' It might
AG> be argued by someone with nothing more to do with his time than argue
AG> `this is a strange choice of words. And perhaps the word "peace" should
AG> be "piece" and that it is to be hoped that no soldier would ever
AG> encounter so barbarious a people as would quarter him'. The same persn
AG> might debate the choice of words from a weather report that called the
AG> weather `crazy'.
Your little trolley's slipped off the tracks, I see . . .
AG> The Roman Catholic church teach that after their priest has blessed
AG> the two elements they are miraculously transformed into the actual
AG> literal body of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Except they don't anymore. Modern sources make note of the fact that
the Roman Catholics no longer claim that the transubstantiation of
matter into the body and blood of Christ takes place, ergo, Communion
is no longer cannibalism.
JO> Just trying to understand behavior,
AG> This will explain the strange behaviour:-
Actually, taking stock of your liquor cabinet might better explain the
strange behavior.
AG> In the Bible, Communion is called the Lord's SUPPER. Yet MOST
AG> churches observe it as His BREAKFAST, or His LUNCH. Right back in
AG> Exodus we find out that the TYPE was observed in the EVENING time.
AG> Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper as a memorial to be observed in
AG> the EVENING time, SO did Paul (Mark 14:17; I Corinthians 11:23).
So I guess the Lord's Hot Dish, Lord's Snack, or Lord's Just a Bite of
Something is way out, eh?
AG> And Paul taught that it's DEATH to take it UNworthily.
Gee, they should refridgerate it. Salmonella is nothing to fool with.
AG> ONLY those who are genuinely BORN-again are worthy to take the
AG> Lord's Supper.
I think he'd be pretty pissed if you took his supper. I would be.
AG> Israel was to eat the Passover in HASTE, with their lions GIRDED,
I prefer to eat in the kitchen, but I understand about wanting to chain
up the lions. Man, them things is dangerous . . . };)
AG> their shoes ON their feet, and their staff IN their hand (Exodus
AG> 12:11).
I rarely eat and masturbate at the same time. I would gather the same
about everyone else. And preparing to run at the same time? Too kinky.
AG> be PREPARED for the JOURNEY to the Eternal Land of the Millennium.
Stoned again. What a trip.
AG> MEN who drink ALCOHOL, smoke CIGARETTES, and WOMEN with CUT hair,
AG> PAINTED faces, wearing SHORTS, JEANS, and COMPETING with men in the
AG> work-place yet CALLING themselves Christians and taking Communion.
Men who smoke women with cut hair? Man, you're trippin'!
AG> Paul said, `He that eats and drinks UNWORTHILY, eats and drinks
AG> DAMNATION to himself, not DISCERNING the Lord's BODY.
I always use Pepto for this sort of thing.
AG> The `Lord's Body', Brother or Sister, is NOT that broken fragment
AG> of UNleavened bread, IT'S the LIVING saints. Christians. Oh yes,
AG> it's death NOT to partake Communion, and it's DEATH to take it UN-
AG> worthily.
Uhm, there are no living saints. It's a condition of sainthood that
you have to die in a horrible way, i.e., a martyrdom. I see you're
damned if you do and damned if you don't. Why isn't that surprizing?
AG> When we partake of the Lord's
AG> Supper, we signify we are ONE with Christ, that SUPERNATURAL Bread
AG> from heaven, which if a man partake by FAITH he'll NEVER die.
Wonder Bread. I prefer Rainbo, myself.
(Continued next post)
... "I think my cerebellum just fused!" -- Calvin
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: CommUnIOn.2
|Date: 12 Mar 96 08:44:48
EID:c97c 206c4580
(continued from previous post)
AG> This bread is made from WHEAT, the noblest of the grains, SIFTED,
AG> so that the flour is uniform: symbolizing Jesus Christ, `the SAME,
AG> YESTERDAY, and TODAY, and FOREVER'. Like Christ, it's UNleavened,
AG> mixed with WATER and nothing else. Leaven represents SIN. Nothing
AG> is added TO or taken FROM the pure wheat.
Is yeast a sin as well?
AG> The bread WE prepare for the Lord's Supper is made by HOLY hands.
AG> It's rolled FLAT and thin, then baked in an oven or over a pan. It
AG> is SQUARE or RECTANGULAR bread, and NEVER round. Only pagans have
AG> round bread in their ceremonies. You can find this in your Bibles
AG> and in history books, they made cakes to Astarte the Moon Goddess,
AG> the Queen of Heaven (Jeremiah 7:18; 44:19).
Cakes are different than bread. Boy, you people are really anal,
aren't you? All that work for a cracker.
AG> Just as we don't run to the shop and buy a loaf of LIGHT bread for
AG> Communion, we don't BUY a bottle of SHERRY from the pub, or GRAPE
AG> juice from the grocer. Juice SOURS whereas WINE has a spirit which
AG> preserves and IMPROVES it as it matures. It TYPES the Holy Spirit
AG> which is a PRESERVER of the SOUL. The wine we use for the Lord's
AG> Supper is FERMENTED from grapes crushed by HOLY hands ... or feet.
AG> As the spirit in NATURAL wine stimulates man's MORTAL spirit, the
AG> HOLY Spirit stimulates our SOUL by REVELATION.
Juice souring = wine fermentation. I guess you're too ignorant of
that. I also guess this means you folks don't use TJ Swan, eh?
AG> They are NOT flesh, NOR are they blood (which Christians are
AG> FORBIDDEN to eat).
Xtians are vegetarians?
AG> This indicates we're ONE with Him; NOW seated in heavenly places
AG> IN Christ Jesus.
And you sit in your savior? Eeeeeeewwwwww.
AG> Baptism, believing, or the Lord's Supper are NO different. You can
AG> certainly observe them according to the LETTER, but without faith
AG> it's IMPOSSIBLE to please God.
I understand it's actually impossible to please him anyway. };)
... 5th Commandment: Humor thy father and mother. -- Richard Lederer
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: Angels Or Demons???
|Date: 12 Mar 96 08:49:20
EID:b604 206c4620
Angels Or Demons???:
1% David Johnston, 10% Anthony Grigor-Scott,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AG> Dear David Johnston,
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
DJ> The serpent was Adam's sexual member.
AG> So THAT'S whom you seranade in the bathroom. Does your `serpent' speak
AG> back to you? Is it on its belly, or does it still have its legs?
AG> This is about the most absurd suggestion I have ever heard.
Oh, I don't know. There was this real loser who swore up and down that
he sat in his savior, and that a beast and an animal were not the same
thing, etc. HE was funny.
DJ> We are never told, even by implication, that Adam was not Cain's
DJ> father.
AG> Really? I think Genesis 1:11 is quite explicit, also I John 1:12. And,
AG> were you a seeker of truth, a thinker who actually could `receive the
AG> Word with all readiness of mind, then searched the scriptures,
AG> whether these things were so' then I would go into further detail and
AG> show you more Scriptures.
DJ> Oh, and since Eve was Adam's clade, anyone who was her offspring was
DJ> related to Adam.
Again I say: clade? If Adam was the father, of course the offspring
was related to him.
Tommy dead!
AG> Tommy rot!
Tommy returned to Broadway.
... I admit it - *I* made all the crop circles.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: A tale of 2 cities...
|Date: 12 Mar 96 16:37:46
EID:a025 206c84a0
A tale of 2 cities...:
1% Jim Germiquet, 10% David Worrell,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
DW>>> Dr. Suess' books are aimed at children. I thought the Bible was
DW>>> aimed at *everybody*, not just a barbaric group of savages
DW>>> 2-4000 years ago.
RM>>> You guys are amazing. You ridicule the fundies who believe that
RM>>> the bible was written in English, yet, when it suits your
RM>>> purposes, you pretend that it actually WAS written in English.
JG>> RIGHT ON !!!!!
DW>> You agree with him? Good. Maybe you can tell me where I, or any
DW>> other atheist here, "pretends" that the Bible was written in
DW>> English.
DW>> Can you, or are you completely full of shit?
JG> Very simply put, you ridule the idea that the world was created in
JG> seven days. You demand that the word day mean a solar day or 24 hr
JG> period of time. You AND the fundies.
DW> Where have I done any such thing? As long as the word "day" is
DW> undefined, I could say that the universe has only existed 7.9 days.
DW> Where have I pretended that the Bible was written in English, Jim?
JG> And much of the entire bible is written in this "metaphoric" sense,
DW> Show us the algorithm you use to seperate the metaphor from the fact,
DW> Jim. How do you know that the resurrection wasn't metaphorical as
DW> well?
JG> context ot may be meant. A good example I gave early on was the
JG> meaning of the word hate, when it says to hate your mother and father
JG> and life. The meaning I took even from my modern dictionary could be
JG> "to be unwilling" This completely changes what the verse means.
DW> And I just read where someone (Norbert, maybe?) showing, using
DW> Strong's, that the Jews viewed the word much as we do. You were wrong
DW> again, li'l fundy - don't you ever get tired of it?
Yep, that was mine. I can requote it if you need it. He's never going
to learn. But, on the up side, he isn't returning MY posts anymore.
... By thought, I embrace the universal. -- Blaise Pascal
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Michael Hardy, RE: one more time
|Date: 12 Mar 96 16:38:27
EID:e647 206c84c0
one more time:
1% Michael Hardy, 10% David Worrell,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
DW> 09 Mar 96 20:25, Michael Hardy wrote to Judith Bandsma:
JB>> ... I know you're not as stupid as you seem. No one could be!
MH> Even you can't hold a discussion without resorting to
MH> name-calling. Somehow I had thought you were above that sort of
MH> thing. Silly me.
DW> Awwww... did wittwe Mikey get his feewings hurt?
DW> If you weren't such a bonehead, Hardly, people wouldn't feel they had
DW> to use hammers to get through to you.
DW> Would someone please forward this to Mikey? Thanks.
Well, he only twitted you because he fears you. And is this a sneaky
enough way of getting it forwarded to him? };)
Oh, dang! Forgot to include some drool. Wait a second . . .
]Ä Area: National Religious Debate Echo ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
] Msg#: 77 Date: 07 Mar 96 23:01:00
] From: Michael Hardy Read: Yes Replied: No
] To: All Mark:
] Subj: drool game
]ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
]Like any of you care, my patience for this echo is wearing thin. So I'm
]going to liven it up with a little game.
]
]I've finally set up a twit filter, something I resisted for two years
]because I tried to believe that anyone could have something
]worthwhile to say once in a while. But as my patience began to wear, I
]decided I'd rather spend one hour a night having interesting exchanges
]than three hours a night wading through drool to get the occasional
]worthwhile questions. And I observed that the bulk of the drool was
]coming consistently from the same few people.
]
]The following people make up the charter group of twits: Dan Ceppa,
]David Rice, Fredric Rice, Sean McCullough, Steve Rose and David Worrell.
]
]The game is this: I have chosen one person among the current group of
]non-twitted Holy Smoke regulars. If that person sends enough drool my
]way to justify being twitted, I will drop out of this echo for at least
]one month, possibly longer.
]
]No clues, though. The person in question was picked at random, with all
]names in the running except for Boni Hitch and Pam Gray, who don't seem
]to be in the loop. Could be anyone, other than them or the charter
]twits.
]
]This is like "You Bet Your Life," where you say the secret woid and win
]$100. In this case, if the right person earns twitdom, you win at least
]30 days Mickey-free. (And yes, I'll announce it if it happens.)
]
]Go to it, twits!
]
]... If I ran the world, things would be a lot better. Well, for me anyway.
]
]___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
]
]-!- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
] ! Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
. . . there, maybe he'll twit me too, after this kinda drool . . .
... I'm NOT an elitist. Why do you ask, you peasant?
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Angels Or Demons???
|Date: 12 Mar 96 08:55:14
EID:d840 206c46e0
Angels Or Demons???:
1% David Johnston, 10% J.J. Hitt,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
DJ> The serpent was Adam's sexual member.
JH> It talked?
Sounds like a B.E.M. to me, some sort of E.T. . . . };) Or maybe this
is that little extra something that Xtians get when they get saved? A
talking winkie . . . what a concept . . .
... "I missed being God by one vote!" - Odin
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Dutch cats
|Date: 12 Mar 96 08:56:31
EID:cd15 206c4700
Dutch cats:
1% Judith Bandsma, 10% J.J. Hitt,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JH> * Original From: Glenn Joyner, 1:124/7015
JH> * Original Date: Mar 09 20:25
JH> * Forwarded on by J.J. Hitt of 1:106/9788.2
JH> * Originally By: Don Teal
JH> * Originally Re: Eat Me
JH> * Original Area: The DataBank Local - General
JH> LEIDEN, Netherlands - A reclusive cat fancier was all but consumed by
JH> his 15 pets after he died leaving them without food. Police said Frans
JH> Heemskerk's body was almost completely eaten up by his cats. Police
JH> found Heemskerk's remains Saturday after his neighbors alerted them
JH> they hadn't seen the 69-year-old man for two weeks. Heemskerk is
JH> believed to have died of natural causes up to three weeks before
JH> police discovered his remains. His cats would come and go through a
JH> window, but return to the house to feed off their owner's body.
Cool. Kitty Kommunion, or sorts. Them cats were _loyal_!
... Have the courage to live. Anyone can die. -- Robert Cody
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: URL!
|Date: 12 Mar 96 09:05:15
EID:b5a9 206c48a0
URL!:
1% Joanna Amren, 10% J.J. Hitt,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JH> Not totally unlike how I view the story of Samson and Delilah.
JH> Everytime he spends the night over at her place he wakes up
JH> in the morning with the Philistines all over his ass. Yet
JH> somehow ol' Sam never puts two and two together to realize
JH> that there is a connection between the two events. The guy
JH> is dumber than Popeye.
Didn't Victor Mature play him in the film? Typecasting, I tell you.
BTW, ROFLMAOESTC on this one . . . I'm saving it to a file.
... For God so loved the world that he gave it Jolt Cola, w/200% caffiene!
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