God Damned Fundies!
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 27 Mar 97 19:22:52
EID:da86 227b9ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 77918c4b
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 33390faa
SA> That hasn't come to trial YET? Well, it's good to know I haven't
SA> missed it; I'll certainly be more interested in following that
SA> than the OJ spectacle. Of course, I bet they won't have as
SA> much teevee coverage this time 'round.
If all holds, the end of March will be the big day. I don't look for the
glitz that OJ attracted. The country is damned angry about this. It is
my belief that he3 will never be executed but will die in a federal pen.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 27 Mar 97 19:28:43
EID:34d1 227b9b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 77919b84
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3337f800
MG>> Saved to disk, Whines. Another example of xtian charity.
MG>> ROTFL!
KY> I would agree with him that abortion is worthy of the death
KY> penalty, except since the girl wasn't the one that actually
KY> killed the unborn child, it probably should be the so called
KY> doctors that should be executed.
Your logic is as leaky as an inner tube in a dart factory.
The child is born and dies int eh hands of a 12 year old that does nto know
the first thing about raising a child. Maybe then, we should execute the
physicians that allowed her to come to term.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: Curb Your God (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Blavatsky?
|Date: 26 Mar 97 19:28:26
EID:77fa 227a9b80
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 0e039546
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3333ad22
TID: GE/32 1.2
QF>> Did you archive your first one? I still have the original message saved.
QF>> I need to get out more often.
RS> Why archive, when you can print and wallpaper your house!
I should print it out and staple it to my wall, at least. :)
I recently saw something kinda cool at school yesterday. Someone had taken
some church-issue pictures of Jesus (not sure which church, though) and
put
the caption, "MILK: Where's Your Mustache" with a dab of white paint on
Jesus' mustache. There were a few of these posted around the university,
so I
just had to take one home and put it on the wall. :)
... Necromancers put the FUN back in funerals!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
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|From: Darryl Gonzalez
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Re: dumb religious delusions
|Date: 26 Mar 97 23:50:00
EID:f0b4 227abe40
MSGID: 1:383/6293 3330CD37
In a message to Darryl Gonzalez <03-24-97 17:08> Mark O'Neill wrote:
MO> MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3336fcbf
MO> REPLY: 1:383/6293 3328B87E
MO> CHRS: LATIN-1 2
MO> While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as
MO> lightning
MO> conductors on church steeples, Darryl Gonzalez said this to me about
MO> dumb
MO> religious delusions
MO>
MO> MO>> KY> Evidence won't necessarily make you believe.
MO> MO>> ^^^^^^^^
MO> MO>> It'd be a fuckin' start, wouldn't it, Dickbrain?
MO>
MO> DG> With most of those I've encountered on this echo, it'd be a
MO> useless
MO>
MO> Encountered what? Useless what? You're not being very specific,
MO> Darryl,
MO> Darryl and Darryl.
MO>
MO> DG> be like handing someone a closed book and saying, "Read this",
MO> and
MO> DG> they'd reply, "I can't: it's closed." So then you open it and
MO> say,
MO> DG> "Read this." Then they reply, "I can't: I can't read." You will
MO> make
MO>
MO> What the fuck are you on about here? Oh, I see. You're telling me
MO> that
MO> I've never read the bible, aren't you? You would be in error if you
MO> suggested this. I do have a copy of it. I also have The Satanic
MO> Bible,
You totally missed the point, Mark. My point there was that most of the
people on this echo will refuse to listen to any evidence or argument no
matter what I do. That point had nothing to do with reading the Bible at
all.
MO> as well as various other books, not to mention another 100 or so on
MO> file
MO> which are a mixture of pro/anti christian beliefs. You see, Darryl,
MO> Darryl and Darryl, I'm actively searching for answers to many
MO> impossible
MO> questions. I expect I'll never find satisfactory answers or
MO> *evidence*
MO> for any of my questions but, unlike you, I'm not afraid to look.
MO> That's
MO> the difference. You're afraid to look outside your faith.
No, Mark. I've probably done a great deal more searching than you have
ever
done. I've looked at all the major religious and non-religious viewpoints
in
the world. But when it came down to making a decision, I chose to follow
Jesus Christ, and that's a choice I've never regretted.
MO>
MO> De-bunked.
Yes, you are.
MO>
MO> DG> every excuse you can to not examine any evidence that's put
MO> before you.
MO>
MO> *EVIDENCE*, Darryl, Darryl and Darryl. You have yet to provide
MO> *evidence*. You, like every other fucking religious fruitcake in
MO> here,
MO> have failed to provide *evidence*! All you can do is quote
MO> scriptures.
MO> As there is no *evidence* these teachings are fact, your arguements
MO> have no basis.
OK. A couple of items for you:
1. A brilliant mathematician, Dr. Robert Herrman, Professor of Mathematics
at
the U. S. Naval Academy, has published an excellent mathematical
demonstration using set theory which shows that it IS in fact reasonable
to
believe in God. (The entire text of the article is available on the World
Wide Web at http://www.redbay.com:80/org/creation/sehi.txt.) His basic
argument is this: There are certain types of characteristics which seem
to
characterize intelligence. These include the ability to communicate, the
ability to make decisions, and the ability to argue. He states that through
the use of functions called consequence operators, these abilities (and
others) can be shown to be part of larger sets of abilities (or "ultra-mental
processes", as he calls them). He states, "When the collection UM of
ultra-mental processes is compared, as a whole, with the corresponding set
M
of mental processes that are displayed by humanity, then it appears reasonable
to characterize the collection UM as representing a higher intelligence.
The
logical existence of UM is obtained by use of the most fundamental tool
of
modern science and establishes that the acceptance of the existence of a
supernatural higher intelligence is scientifically rational and valid."
If
you don't have access to the World Wide Web, send me your address & I'll
send
you the article.
2. There are many scientific experts in the world who do in fact believe
that
God exists. I quoted some of them earlier. But let's look at why a scientist
might believe this: In order for human life to develop as it has here on
Earth, a number of conditions had to be met. The Earth, for example, had
to maintain a distance of 92 million and 94 million miles between it and
the
Sun. Too much closer, and we'd have fried. Too much farther away, we'd
have
frozen. The atmosphere had to have around 21 percent oxygen. The Earth
had
to rotate at a high enough speed to maintain its gravity. I could go on
and
on and on. You might say, "Coincidence!" Really? You mean if I, for
example, were shooting craps and rolled double sixes once, it might be a
coincidence? Yes, IF it happened once and only once. If it happened over
and
over and over, then you'd begin to think something was strange here, wouldn't
you?
3. Dr. J. C. Grenda, former Professor of Geology at Angelo State University
in San Angelo, Texas, and NOT a Christian, once validated my faith in a
historical geology class that I took from him by showing that an undersea
earthquake which is known to have happened in the Mediterranean Sea around
3000 B.C. could have caused the Red Sea to roll back in the manner in which
the Book of Exodus describes it. He also admitted when I asked him that
many
of the miracles described in the Old Testament do have geological evidences
supporting them. And, remember, he is NOT a Christian.
4. There are a good many World Wide Web sites that offer evidences for
God.
The best I've found yet is at http://www.doesgodexist.org.
5. Archaeology backs the Bible. There has not, to my knowledge, been even
one archaeological discovery which contradicts it. Ruins of Sodom and
Gomorrah, for example, have been found. Ruins of Babylon have been found.
Still want to say there's no evidence, Mark?
MO>
MO> DG> That's why I haven't bothered to put any of the evidence (except
MO> the
MO> DG> scientific quotes) that I have
MO>
MO> That's logical. Science is logical. Facts are found through a
MO> logical
MO> process. Faith has no scientific process, ergo, faith is not
MO> logical.
No, but the object of that faith is testable. If I, for example, wanted
to
put my money into a certain bank, I'd first want to know as much as I could
about it's financial situation, since I'm trusting it with my money. I
therefore would talk to the banker, and I'd look at how long it's been in
business, what it's securities are, if it's a member of FDIC, etc. Only
afte
r studying this would I decide to become (or not to become) a part of that
bank.
MO>
MO> DG> on this echo. I don't believe you'll listen to any of it.
MO>
MO> Correct. Endless spiels on your god contain nothing most of us don't
MO> already know. Remember that. The reason most of us question your
MO> religion is because it is irrational. It is flawed beyond what an
MO> intelligent person can accept as truth. It is not rational to accept
MO> your
MO> bible as truth when glaring faults exist within it's passages. A
MO> moron
MO> might be able to ignore these grievous mistakes but I, for one,
MO> cannot.
I've already disproven much of this point earlier in this message, so I
won't
repeat myself. Suffice it to say this, however: I've spent 18 years of
my
life studying the Bible. I've read it in at least four different
translations. I cannot find any one of these "mistakes" you speak so much
ab
out. I think, perhaps, you were LOOKING for mistakes, and then went out
and
"found" them. I urge you to do it again, this time with an open heart and
mind.
- Pedit Ver 2.5
... If the bar waitress snickers at your drink order, saying. "I'll see
if we still make that drink."
You might be over 50
--- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: George Harper
|Sub: CHRISTANIC TERRORISTS
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:55:00
EID:2e98 227b76e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e73a666a
GH> JB> No, you forgot penalties and reasoning for the woman who requests
the
GH> JB> abortion. You also forgot that women do not have to seek out a doctor
GH> JB> to abort. You didn't lay out procedures for determining if a woman
has
GH> JB> had a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or induced. Or were you
GH> JB> planning on just counting every miscarriage as an abortion.
GH> JB> You also forgot to add that you are an idiot. When YOU can get
GH> JB> pregnant, then you can decide. Until then, you have no say.
GH> I covered all the bases; you apparently need to learn to read. A
woman
GH> who requests, and allows, an abortion is participating in its performance,
GH> however passively...indeed, she plays a central part. As such, she
is sub-
GH> ject to the same penalties as any other member of the ensemble.
GH> If the woman takes an abortion-inducing substance, she becomes the
abortion
GH> ist, and is subject to the same penalties as any other provider would
be.
I am going to assume that you are working from a base of ignorance, and
not plain wilful maliciousness. Medical treatment for many medical
conditions are either abortifacients or will severely damage the
fetus. What you are saying, in effect, is that a woman who finds
herself pg should discontinue taking a life saving medication rather
than risk losing the pg and being jailed.
GH> I am certain that any woman spontaneously aborting or miscarrying
will
GH> seek medical assistance to prevent complications, etc., and that would
GH> provide all the necessary evidence, so there need be no addiiitional
GH> determinations made.
How do you tell a D&E (the proper name for the 'vacuum' procedure) for
the purposes of cleaning out a miscarriage from one to interrupt a pg?
Oh, you do know what the stakes are for not getting a D&E after a
miscarriage are, don't you? Would you like to see your daughter die
screaming? Retained material from an incomplete abortion (the word
abortion is used medically to indicate any pg that does not go to
term, not just those that are deliberately interrupted) not only can go
septic in a particularly nasty manner, but the retained tissue can cause
a spectacularly fast moving cancer.
GH> As for my not having a right to make a decision for you, I never claimed
GH> that right. What I am advocating is a complete cessation of the
practice
GH> of substituting abortion for proper decision making. You do have
the
GH> right to choose who does what to your body. If you take proper precaution
GH> you won't get pregnant. Therefor, especially in this age of advocacy
GH> for safe sex, an unwanted pregnancy is an indication of incompetence
on the
GH> part of the woman...even in most cases where the pregnancy is caused
by
GH> rape.
No, you are claiming the right to remove all my rights to deciding what
happens to my own body. You are a slaver. Where did you get the
idea that birth control methods currently available were failsafe? Or
even all safe?
Women are not the only ones who should be held accountable. Sorry,
Stupid, but if something slips, and the man just won't stop, it's not
the woman's fault.
GH> I have raised 5 daughters...none of whom have ever had an unwanted
GH> pregnancy, because they had the common sense to take precautions.
GH> The daughter of a friend was raped, in her own bed. Because the
woman
GH> was on "The Pill", she didn't get pregnant. What's YOUR excuse?
Too
GH> much in a hurry to take your pill every morning, as prescribed???
GH> If you wanna play, you gotta figure on paying...
So the girl was 'playing' when she got raped. You are one sick man, and
I feel for your daughters. No doubt the values and attitudes that
you've conditioned into them have made them into good little slaves, but
those attitudes are setting them up for a world of hurt through the
years. No doubt you won't care, as long as they don't disturb your
belching and scratching.
I'm glad your daughters friend could take the pill--not all women can.
Do you even know how the pill works, and the risks that it brings with
it? Were you even aware that some xtian fanatics want to outlaw the
pill as an abortion drug (something that you want to send your
daughter's friend to jail for using)?
GH> Whatever situation that brings about the pregnancy, it ISN'T the fault
GH> of the victim of an abortion, so why sentence him, or her, to death
for
GH> YOUR mistakes???
Because he, she, or it is only welcome to my body with my permission.
GH> THAT's why I would like to see abortions outlawed...they victimize
the
GH> wrong parties...refute THAT if you can!!!
Instead of victimizing the women, something that you seem to be just
dandy about.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BANISH THE DEMON JEHOVAH!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: George Harper
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:55:00
EID:1be4 227b76e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 74b001f2
GH> GH> The remains of the Ark have been found. YOU figure out how long
it
GH> GH> took one man to build it from scratch.
GH> JB>
GH> JB> Not AGAIN? How many times is this thing going to be found?
GH> JB> Hint for you...it hasn't.
GH> Perhaps YOU need to read up on recent (last 30 years) history?
The ark was built out of rail road ties!!! And
they're going to build a four lane high way up to it, with a look out
yet!!! LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * BECAUSE!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: George Harper
|Sub: RE: ARROGANCE
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:55:00
EID:1071 227b76e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b40a21fc
GH> If you had bothered to include the next line of my post (which completes
GH> my statement that I was/am ready to face the possibility that I may
GH> have made the wrong choice) you would show yourself to be as stupid
as
GH> I claim all you apologists to be....I DID ANSWER THE QUESTION. Now,
GH> I repeat my challenge...what will you do when you find out I made
the
GH> correct choice? After all, there is as strong a probability that
MY
GH> God is THE GOD as there is to the contrary...that's the beauty of
Pascal's
GH> Wager...everyone will learn the Name of the True God eventually, and
GH> those who have chosen to follow that God will be sitting there thumbing
GH> their noses as the losers get on the "DOWN" elevator...
Well, they sure sound like 'nice' people. Ugh. I think that I would
rather not having any thing to do with that sort of white trash, thank
you very much.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Being born again increases the chances of birth defects.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: George Harper
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:55:00
EID:42d0 227b76e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 01ef2e2f
GH> KD> On (17 Mar 97) Ken Wiens wrote to Roger Hunter...
GH> KW> You hold on. I maintained and still maintain that the
GH> KW> ONLY situation in which an abortion is justified is
GH> KW> to save the life of the mother. Outside that those
GH> KW> who do so should have a fair trial and if found guilty
GH> KW> executed.
GH> KD> And a 12 year old victim of incestuous rape does not fall under
your
GH> KD> category of "life."
GH> What are *YOU* babbling about??? (See! we Christians can "just jump
in
GH> also). How does the fact that she is 12, and has been raped by a
GH> father, brother, uncle, indicate that bearing the child will endanger
GH> her life. The way the human body works allows that puberty is
GH> delayed until the body is capable of withstanding the rigors of pregnancy.
You incredible idiot. Your ignorance is astounding. IF (and I do mean
if) our hypothetical 12 year old should survive this pregnancy, she will
most likely come out of it with a damaged spine, warped pelvis, and torn
bladder. She will most likely be subject to spontaneous abortions
(translation for the stupid-miscarriage) if she should ever be able to
get pregnant again. Get your stupid ass down to the library and do some
reading. A female is able to get pregnant almost from the beginning of
puberty--long before her body is able to physically sustain that
pregnancy with out being severely damaged. That is if you are able to
stop your gleeful jacking off over pictures of 12 year olds being raped
by their daddy's long enough.
GH> The idea, as often stated by Ken Wiens, is to forestall the use of
GH> abortion/murder as a means of birth control. I have had to counsel
GH> girls of 10 and eleven who had entered puberty unbeknownst to them,
GH> because the mother was too pre-occupied to tell her the facts of life.
GH> These girls go out and play at sex games with older boys who are so
GH> eager to "score" a virgin that they will lead these girls on, and
then
GH> you end up with pre-teen girls getting pregnant. But the horror
GH> doesn't stop here. The 11yr old is scared to death...what happens
GH> if mom and pop find out???, etc.,,,so she allows herself to be talked
GH> into an abortion. This child wasn't able to cope with a just say
no
GH> circumstance, how do you expect her to glean enough info to make
GH> a difficult decision, wisely.
Oh, how that must make your 'naughty parts' tingle. How many of those
girls have you taken advantage of yourself?
GH> My advocacy here will differ from most Pro-lifers...I would like to
see
GH> a law enacted that would make it a felony to counsel anyone under
the
GH> age of 21 to have an abortion without the full knowledge of the parents
GH> of the pregnant woman...
Even when Daddy is the father?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Bigot? Racist? Fundy? Hate women? The GOP wants you!!!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: God's terrorists!
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:55:00
EID:47c8 227b76e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 476a9610
RC> KW>> Dear, dear Robert. Another slice of pie?
RC> RC> Yes, thank you. I save them for visiting missionaries, so they
RC> RC> don't go to waste. :-)
RC> KW> I can only see two problems with that--the first being that you
RC> KW> would then have to waste coffee on them,
RC>I don't keep any in stock. I always offer the Mormons a nicely chilled
RC>drink of some other caffeinated beverage of their choice, though.
I've had a lot of fun with a LDS 'friend' of mine by sweetly pointed out
that chocolate also contains caffein . That always sends her into a
tailspin ending with chanted recitations of 'is not, is not, is not, is
not . . ." She also gets a bit bent when I point out that the vanilla
extract that she's substituting for the forbidden rum in a recipe
contains just as much alcohol.
RC> KW> and the second being that some of those pies have proved to
RC> KW> be very fast acting. If you are going to do that, may
RC> KW> I suggest plastic covers on your couch?
RC>They don't enter; I go outside. The better to chase them as they flee.
And a pooper scooper takes care of any droppings they leave, whether
feces or bibles.
---
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:35:38
EID:2d7f 227b5460
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed51cf
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 19-Mar-1997, "Alternative or Straw.")
DC> -> On 18 Mar 97, Laurie Appleton got back to David Rice
LA> the conclusion that Dr. Michael Behe comes to that;
DC> Gee, Laurie, run out of Velekovsky quotes?
Not at all, but I am pleased to know how much you count in
your regular "instalments". So cheer up, here is the next
one!
-----------------
At Arcy, France, also in a cave, bones of the
hippopotamus were found with bones of the reindeer, and with
them a worked flint.(6)
According to the prophecy of Isaiah (11:6), in messianic
times to come the lion and the calf would pasture together.
But even prophetic vision has not conceived of a reindeer
from snow-covered Lapland and a hippopotamus from the
tropicaì Congï Riveò livinç togetheò oî thå Britisè Isleó or
in France. Yet they did leave their bones in the same mud of
the same caves, together with bones of other animals, in the
strangest assortments.
These animal bones were found in gravel and clay to which
Buckland gave the name of diluvium.
Buckland was concerned "to establish two important facts,
first, that there has been a recent and general inundation
of the globe; and, second, that the animals whose remains are
found interred in the wreck of that inundation were natives
of high north latitudes."
The presence of tropical animals in northerî Europå
"cannoô bå solveä bù supposinç theí tï migrate
periodically... for in the case of crocodiles and tortoises
extensive emigration is almost impossible, and not less so
to such an unwieldy animal as the hippopotamus when out of
the water." But how could they live in the cold of northern
Europe? Buckland says: "It is equally difficult to imagine
that they could have passed their winters in lakes or rivers
frozen up with ice."
If cold-blooded land animals are unable to hide
themselves in the ground over the winter, in icy climates
their blood would freeze solid: they lack the ability to
regulate the temperature of their bodies. Like Cuvier¬
Bucklanä waó "nearlù certaiî thaô iæ anù changå of climate
has taken place, it took place suddenly."(7)
Of the time the catastrophe occurred which covered with
mud and pebbles the bones in the Kirkdale cave, Buckland
wrote: "From the limited quantity of postdiluvian
stalactite, as well as from the undecayed condition of the
bones," one must deduce that "the time elapsed since the
introduction of the diluvial mud has not been of excessive
length."
The bones were not . . . .
-------------------------------------
5 Cuvier, Recherches sur les ossements fossiles des
quadrupedes, IV, 94.
6 E. Lartet, Reliquiae aquitanicae, pp. 147-48.
7 Buckland, Reliquiae diluvianae, p. 47.
-------------------------------------
(Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velkiovsky, 1956, p. 17)
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:36:32
EID:9e65 227b5480
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed5240
Hi Christopher,
(Re: yours of 19-Mar-1997, "Alternative or Straw".)
LA> Then WHO formed the first cell? Surely you do not accept
LA> the conclusion that Dr. Michael Behe comes to that;
CH> No one formed it. Cells didn't spontaneously crop up out
CH> of nowhere. Scientists have demonstrated that if you expose
CH> an organic "soup" of methane, carbon, oxygen and water to
CH> electricity, you will get spontaneous formations of
CH> _amino_acid_ block.
You show all the signs of being a victim of indoctrination
and of outrageous HALF-TRUTHS! There WERE many things formed
in those "scientific" experiments including traces of some
Amino Acids. However NONE of the amino acids were the right
sorts required for life.
What you have NOT been told, apparently, it that all such
experiments produce a mixture of left-handed and
right-handed Amino acids, as do ALL natural chemical
reactions, but all life as we know it has only the
LEFT-HANDED version of these amino acids and cannot possibly
work with even a TRACE of the right-handed form.
Science knows of NO way that any natural chemical reaction
could produce 100% purified forms of these chemicals and
thus scientists have only "demonstrated" that the origin of
life cannot POSSIBLY have occured by NATURAL processes!
CH> Amino acids are, if you don't remember, the building
CH> blocks of proteins.
In terms of the above that is a glorious half-truth which
is effectively a blatant mis-truth! What we now know about
proteins is not only that they MUST be of 100% left handed
amino acids, but they use ONLY a special and distinct number
of these amino acids - TWENTY in all and NO other.
Further more you were ENTITLED to have been told - but
apparently were NOT told - that these twenty amino acids need
to be assembled in a specific order to make useful proteins.
This too is utterly impossible to occur in "nature" and
again shows that all life was a most carefully DESIGNED
machine!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:37:20
EID:9e65 227b54a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed52aa
Hi Christopher,
(Re: yours of 19-Mar-1997, "Alternative or Straw".)
CH> Proteins are, if you don't
CH> remember, one of the fundamental building blocks in cell
CH> structure.
Again a typical half-truth and gross simplification that
students are given and thereby mislead and misinformed!
There are thousands of DIFFERENT proteins in living things
and each one is specific and precise - just the same as in
any complex machine, if it is going to work at all.
CH> There's no need for a supreme being anywhere in the
CH> equation.
If you were given any sensible and honest understanding
of the facts, you would see that INTELLIGENT DESIGN (by what
ever Designer you like to suggest) is the one major
discovery that science has made in this matter. At every
stage in the origin of life it is abundantly clear that
great expertise and scientific understanding and technology
is paramount and essential.
The more we research this matter the more it demonstrates
that a natural origin of life it utterly impossible. As far
back as 1955 this was thought to be the case, but since then
atheist scientists have desperately and unsuccessfully
searched for a natural explanation, but have now admitted
that their quest looks hopeless! i.e.;
'A general review of prebiological evolutionary theories
in 1988 by Klaus Dose concluded that "At present all
discussions on prinicipal theories and experiments in the
field either end in stalemate or in a confession of
ignorance." Gerald Joyce's 1989 review article ended with
the somber observation that origin of life researchers have
grown accustomed to a "lack of relevant experimental data"
and a high level of frustration.'
(Darwin on Trial, Phillip E. Johnson, 1991. page.107.)
A 1996 book entitled; Darwin's Black Box, by Michael J.
Behe, confirms this same picture. The rational explanation
of life is that it necessarily requires an Intelligent
Designer! THAT is what science has really found! Those who
try to agrue otherwise are simply showing that they have
been misled and poorly informed!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Missing Links.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:38:06
EID:8741 227b54c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed530f
Hi Christopher,
(Re: yours of 19-Mar-1997, "Alternative or Straw".)
> "In the fossil record, missing links are the rule: ....The
> more scientists have searched for the transitional forms that
> lie between species, the more they have been frustrated."
> (Newsweek, 3rd. November, 1980, p. 54)
CH> Any creature with a sufficient number of differences
CH> from a given species is labeled as a different species.
Are you suggesting that even when these two "different
species" can interbreed and produce fertile offspring they
are STILL called different species? If that is the case
then would you tell me how many "species" of DOGS that we
know of?
CH> There's no such thing as a "transitional form" because
CH> evolutionary theory concerns itself with discrete steps. The
CH> continuous steps between those discrete points are all
CH> counted as microevolutionary advancements, and don't get
CH> counted as new species.
Perhaps you are trying to tell me that this view has
RECENTLY replaced that view that was believed and taught for
over 120 years. Is that what you are saying? Were you ever
taught about the famous peppered moth? It has been claimed
to be a major evidence of EVOLUTION IN ACTION, has it not?
Have you ever been told that;
"The history of most fossil species includes two features
particularly inconsistent with gradualism:
1. STASIS. Most species exhibit no directional change during
their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record
looking much the same as when they disappear, morphological
change is usually limited and directionless.
2. SUDDEN APPEARANCE. In any local area, a species does not
arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors:
it appears all at once and "fully formed.""
("The Panda's Thumb", The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary
Change, S.J. Gould, (1987 reprint), p. 151)
CH> *baffle* Did you ever pass your 7th grade life sciences
CH> class?
Your problem seems to be that you never learned anything
SINCE then!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Clones of Mammals.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:38:48
EID:f011 227b54c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed5362
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 18-Mar-1997, "Clones of Mammals.")
LA> evolution in terms of Amoeba to Man has NEVER been shown to
LA> occur anyway and 'evolution' in terms of what is called
JB> How could one 'prove' to a nonbeliever, that something
JB> happened when there was no one around to observe it? One
JB> couldn't. "Amoeba to man" is a cretinist smokescreen, a
JB> misleader of the first water.
How could that be such a smokescreen since, as you should
know, many evolutionists have described evolution in just
those terms? Are you trying to mislead and misinform the
naieve and the gullible?
JB> You fail to face the consequences of "deep time,"
JB> preferring instead to hide in the Bible's warm little
JB> theological pond.
Since "deep time" is just a figment of fervid evolutionary
imagination then you are not making any sense. Since when
has TIME produced miracles rather than INTELLIGENT DESIGN!
JB> Still a liar, eh?
The boot is on the other foot of course!
JB> You'll never change.
You are the one that needs to change!
JB> May God forgive you your lies.
Are you talking about your imaginary "Quantum" god?
JB> Evolution does not now nor has it ever said that man
JB> evolved from "monkeys," nor is it about "turning monkeys
JB> into people."
That is just plain IGNORANCE on your part of course and in
your way of speaking it would be called a blatant LIE!
JB> He'll disavow your creationist claptrap.
When will your funny imaginary "Quantum god" do that and
in what way will that bother me, if there is any truth in
your silly accusations? Are you suggesting that you
yourself will be rewarded with eternal life because of your
wild speculations? Alternatively how and when do you expect
to be rewarded for your conceited arrogance and lousy
personal attacks on others who disagree with your corny
murmurings?
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:39:26
EID:dc59 227b54e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed53b7
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 21-Mar-1997, "Water and Flood.")
DC> You have yet to provide facts, Laurie. After all, all
DC> that you state is direct from the ICR.
That is ignorant poppycock.
LA> MOST, because I do not whether they MIGHT be some of the
LA> world's highest mountains that do not follow that general
DC> Of course you don't "know", Laurie. You were not given
DC> those facts as it ruins the case of your ICR handlers.
How do YOU know? Where are your facts?
DC> Tell us about your excursion with Harry Truman, Laurie.
DC> Come on, the whole world is waiting for you to tell us.
Sure Dan, sure. So here is what you really need to know
about;
---------------------
yet fossilized; their organic matter was not yet replaced by
minerals. Buckland thought that the time elapsed since a
diluvial catastrophe could not have exceeded five or six
thousand years, the figure adopted also by De Luc, Dolomieu,
and Cuvier, each of whom presented his own reasons.
Then the illustrious geologist added these words: "What
[the] cause was, whether a change in the inclination in the
earth's axis, or the near approach of a comet, or any other
cause or combination of causes purely astronomical, is a
question the discussion of which is foreign to the object of
the present memoir."
The Aquatic Graveyards
The Old Red Sandstone is regarded as one of the oldest
strata with signs of extinct life in it. No animal life
higher than fish is found there. Whatever the age of this
formation, it carries the testimony and "a wonderful record
of violent death falling at once, not on a few individuals,
but on whole tribes."(1)
In the late thirties of the last century Hugh Miller made
the Old Red Sandstone in Scotland the special subject of his
investigations. He observed: "The earth had already become a
vast sepulchre, to a depth beneath the bed of the sea equal
to at least twice the height of Ben Nevis over its
surface."(2) Ben Nevis in the Grampian Mountains is the
highest peak in Great Britain, 4406 feet high. The stratum of
the Old Red Sandstone is twice as thick.
This formation presents the spectacle of an upheaval
immobilized at a particular moment and petrified forever.
Hugh Miller wrote:
"The first scene in [Shakespeare's] The Tempest opens
amid the confusion and turmoil of the hurricane - amid
thunders and lightnings, the roar of the wind, the shouts of
the seamen, the rattling of cordage, and the wild dash of the
billows. The history of the period represented by the Old Red
Sandstone seems, in what now forms the northern half of
Scotland, to have opened
-----------------------------------
± Hugè Miller¬ Thå Olä Reä Sandstonå (Boston¬ 1865» first
published in England in 1841), p. 48.
2 Ibid., p. 217.
-----------------------------------
(Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, 1956, p. 180
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Water and Flood (b).
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:40:10
EID:9f8c 227b5500
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed5417
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 21-Mar-1997, "Water and Flood (b).")
DC> -> On 20 Mar 97, Laurie Appleton got back to Damien Wellman
LA> Then how do you account for the many many enormous
LA> graveyards of fossil animals in most parts of the world
LA> in sedimentary strata laid down rapidly by water?
DC> And, Laurie, just how many of the fossils are so
DC> intermingled as to show a world wide flood being
DC> responsible?
Such massive graveyards are found in places in many
parts of the world. The following is one such situation;
----------------------------
EARTH IN UPHEAVAL
I. VELIKOVSKY
Chapter 1
IN THE NORTH
In Alaska
In Alaska, to the north of Mount Mckinley, the tallest
mountain in North America, the Tanana River joins the Yukon.
From the Tanana Valley and the valleys of its tributaries
gold is mined out of gravel and "muck". This muck is a frozen
mass of animals and trees.
F. Rainey of the University of Alaska described the scene
(1): "Wide cuts, often several miles in length and sometimes
as much as 140 feet in depth, are now being sluiced out along
stream valleys tributary to the Tanana in the Fairbanks
District. In order to reach gold-bearing gravel beds an
over-burden of frozen silt or 'muck' is removed with
hydraulic giants. This 'muck' contains enormous numbers of
frozen bones of extinct animals such as the mammoth,
mastodon, super-bison and horse."(2)
These animals perished in rather recent times; present
estimates place their extinction at the end of the Ice Age or
in early post-glacial times. The soil of Alaska covered their
bodies together with those of animals of species still
surviving.
Under what conditions did this great slaughter take
place, in which millions upon millions of animals were torn
limb from limb and mingled with uprooted trees?
F. C. Hibben of the University of New Mexico writes:
"Although the formation of the deposits of muck is not clear,
there is ample evidence that at least portions of this
material were deposited under catastrophic conditions. Mammal
remains are for the most part dismembered and disarticulated,
even though some fragments yet retain, in their frozen state,
portions of ligaments, skin, hair, and flesh. Twisted and
torn trees are piled in splintered masses....At least four
considerable layers of volcanic ash may be traced in these
deposits, although they are extremely warped and
distorted..."(3)
Could it be that a volcanic eruption killed the animal
population of Alaska, the streams carrying down into the
valleys the bodies of the slaughtered animals? A volcanic
eruption would have charred the trees but would not have
uprooted and splintered them; if it killed animals, it would
not have dismembered them.
The presence of volcanic ash indicates that a volcanic
eruption did take place, and repeatedly, in four
consecutive stages of the same epoch; but it is also
apparent that the trees could have been uprooted and
splintered only by hurricane or flood or a combination of
both agencies. The animals could have been dismembered only
by a stupendous wave that lifted and carried and smashed
and torå anä burieä millionó oæ bodieó anä millionó oæ
trees. Also, the area of the catastrophe was much greater
than the action of a few volcanoes could have covered.
Muck deposits like those of the Tanana River Valley are
found in the lower reaches of the Yukon in the western part
of the peninsula, on the Koyukuk River that flows into the
Yukon from the north, on the Kuskokwim River that empties its
waters into Bering Sea, and at several places along the
Arctic coast, and so "may be considered to extend in greater
or lesser thickness over all unglaciated areas of the
northern peninsula."(4)
What could have caused the Arctic Sea and the Pacific
Ocean to irrupt and wash away forests with all their animal
population and throw the entire mingled mass in great heaps
scattered all over Alaska, the coast of which is longer than
the Atlantic sea-board from Newfoundland to Florida? Was it
not a tectonic revolution in the earth's crust, that also
caused the volcanoes to erupt and to cover the peninsula with
ashes?
-------------------------------------
(1) F. Rainey, "Archaeological Investigation in Central
Alaska," American Antiquity, V (1940), 305.
(2) The horse became extinct in pre-Columbian America; the
present horses in the Western Hemisphere are descendants of
imported animals.
------------------------------
³ F.C® Hibben¬ "Evidencå oæ Earlù Maî iî Alaska,¢ Americaî
Antiquity¬ VIIÉ (1943)¬ 256
´ Ibid.
------------------------------------
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Harry Truman.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:40:52
EID:8190 227b5500
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed546a
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 20-Mar-1997, "Harry Truman.")
JB> HOW MANY discarded hypotheses is an indication of the
JB> rapidity of evolution's accuratization --its improvement
JB> rate.
I have to agree that evolution has indeed "improved" over
the last couple of decades, with particular reference to
that decade of debates, where various evolutionists have
admitted that the Creation Scientists WON almost every one
of these open, public, scientific debates!
That is the sort of "improvement" that might well find
them "improving" all the way to the Garden of Eden! No
wonder evolutionists are now in the following almost chaotic
state!
"Superficially, it looks as if we know less now about how
evolution works than we did, say, even ten years ago. This
is because, as recently at a decade ago, there was something
approaching unanimity in the evolutionary ranks. Today,
though chaos is too strong a word, there is definitely
dissent in the ranks."
(The Monkey Business, Niles Eldredge, 1982, p. 52 as
quoted in; Creationists Answer their Critics, p. 238)
JB> Science's glory is its technique, which yields
JB> ever-more-accurate, ever-closer images of actual reality.
Yes indeed. The closer it it forced by the facts to the
Creationist position the MORE accurate it becomes! A major
shift occurred when Gould and Eldredge managed to introduce
Punctuated Equilibria and the following has been greeted
with many a wry smile from Creationists, since it is in many
ways a close echo of their consistent claims;
"The history of most fossil species includes two features
particularly inconsistent with gradualism:
1. STASIS. Most species exhibit no directional change during
their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record
looking much the same as when they disappear, morphological
change is usually limited and directionless.
2. SUDDEN APPEARANCE. In any local area, a species does not
arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors:
it appears all at once and "fully formed.""
("The Panda's Thumb", The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary
Change, S.J. Gould, (1987 reprint), p. 151)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38035651 V34+ Node 3 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Popper & Metaphysics.
|Date: 27 Mar 97 10:41:54
EID:59ae 227b5520
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89ed54ee
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 20-Mar-1997, "Harry Truman.")
LA> Your constant reference to the revered word "science" in
LA> realation to evolution has to be a misleading deception and
LA> it is no wonder that Karl Popper wrote that;
LA> "I have come to the conclusion that Darwinism is not a
LA> testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research
LA> programme - a possible framework for testable theories. It
LA> suggests the existence of a mechanism of adaptation and it
LA> allows us to even study in detail the mechanism at work. And it
LA> is the only theory so far which does that."
LA> (UNENDED QUEST (1976), as referenced in; Darwin's Enigma, p. 28)
JB> Sophist Liar Appleton again uses recanted words of
JB> philosopher, achieves yet another level of prevarication in
JB> service to his chosen religious belief-system....
Your position is not enhanced by such distorted and
ridiculous comments. In fact it makes you look distinctly
like some gutter type politicians.
Your long "import" by Jim Lippard is noted and a few
parts are used as prompts.
JB> 3. Popper subsequently wrote:
JB> I have changed my mind about the testability and logical
JB> status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to
JB> have an opportunity to make a recantation. ...
JB> (Popper, "Natural Selection and
JB> the Emergence of Mind," _Dialectica_ 32(1978):339-355; quotations
JB> are from pp. 344-346)
The absurdity of that statement is that Creationists
themselves have always accepted the fact of natural
selection and the survival of the fittest. It has NOTHING to
do with evolution and never has, in SPITE of Darwin's false
assumption that it was the be-all and end-all of his corny
hypothesis. The following should put this matter in
perspective;
"There is no doubt that natural selection is a
mechanism, that it works. It has been repeatedly
demonstrated by experiments. There is no doubt at all that
it works. But the question of whether it produces new
species is quite another matter."
"No one has ever produced a species by mechanisms of
natural selection. No one has ever gotten near and it most
of the current argument in neo-Darwinism is about this
question: how a species originates and it is there that
natural selection seems to be fading out and chance
mechanisms of one sort or another are being invoked."
(Dr Colin Patterson, on the subject of "Cladistics", in an
interview on British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC)
television, 4 March 1982. Colin Patterson is Senior
Palaeontologist at the British Museum of Natural History,
London.)
JB> I have no less than three repetitions, on different
JB> dates in the PAST, where YOU originated this _same_ claim,
JB> and were flatly refuted by the above post's content.
Nothing has been refuted at all except perhaps natural
selection as a mechanism of macroevolution.
JB> You are not only a liar, you're a liar who refuses to
JB> stand _corrected_.
To be "corrected" by a fool is the ultimate foolishness!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38035651 V34+ Node 3 (3:640/238)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Mar 97 00:43:47
EID:571f 227b0560
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33398ab4
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3330c988
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Richard Smith said this to me about Cracker
Barrel boycott
G'day Richard,
DC>> Aren't you the little bigot that claims that homosexuals
DC>> cannot repent?
ky>> Nope.
RS> What a liar.
A chronic case of short-term selective memory loss by the looks of it.
ky>> I was misunderstood.
RS> Untrue. He made the statement. Maybe he wants to ammend it
RS> now.
Doubtful. He'll just "let it slide" hoping we'll all forget it. Typical.
ky>> become Christian. But once they accept Christ as
ky>> their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
RS> Total beefola . . .
That about sums up his entire faith. But we've already established this
much.
MO>> Is it just me or does Jelly need taking out the back and
MO>> given a few gangster slaps Al Capone style to snap him out
RS> If you're hoping to jar his brains into working, you'd first
While highly unlikely it _is_ a positive thought.
RS> have to establish that he has any.
Evidence in favour of this being true has been lacking thusfar. I feel
it
won't be forthcoming in the near future either. I wonder when he thinks
the
second coming is due? Hope it's soon and I hope it's on a Saturday. I don't
work Saturdays.
/\\ark...
... At birth we woke to dream in this world between. -- Kan'ami Kiyotsugu
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: All
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Mar 97 15:03:12
EID:33c0 227a7860
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33398f10
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3333d1d2
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this to Lynda Bustilloz about
...
[Jeezus]
LB>> Oh yea....and how did he get IN there? How was he conceived?
KY> Sometimes people look too hard for some complex answer. He got in
KY> there, because God put him in there.
God: "Now, Mary, this won't hurt although you might feel a bit of a prick".
Mary: "So, what else is new?"
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 26 Mar 97 15:16:39
EID:87b0 227a7a00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33399237
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 333451b6
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Wiens said this to Martin Goldberg about
Accepting Reality
MG>> Saved to disk, Whines. Another example of xtian charity.
MG>> ROTFL!
KW> Good. Maybe someday you'll have an ounce of concern for
KW> the unborn child. Then again, it is likely the average
KW> heathen will not. But typical, though, a heathen
KW> going ahead and letting off a "ROTFL!" on a subject
KW> like this.
ROTFL!
/\\ark...
... Evolution's not *just* a theory like creationism's not *just* a lie.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: George Harper
|Sub: EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENC
|Date: 26 Mar 97 17:54:07
EID:62a5 227a8ec0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33399543
REPLY: 1:104/447 29170640
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, George Harper said this to Becke Boyer about
EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENC
GH>> Accounts in the Bible, which I am convinced is infallible. If
you
GH>> have evidence to the contrary, present it.
BB>> How many legs do grasshoppers have, George?
GH> Not having had interest enough to check, I don't know. I also
Of course you wouldn't, you ignorant fuck. FWIW, insects have six legs,
an
*UNDENIABLE FACT* even my seven year old niece is aware of.
GH> don't know what relevance that number has to my claim of
GH> infallibility
GH> of the Bible...care to show the link? Or is that another
GH> "pasquale-ism"
GH> like the wager someone mentioned, somewhere?
Check this out, Georgie baby, from your own "infallible" bible.
Leviticus:
011:021 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth
upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap
withal upon the earth;
011:022 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and
the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind,
and the grasshopper after his kind.
011:023 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet,
shall be an abomination unto you.
Four legged insects, George?
Infallible bible, George?
Can you say "debunked", George?
/\\ark...
... Your IQ test results are back -- they're negative.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: George Harper
|Sub: ARROGANCE
|Date: 27 Mar 97 01:15:52
EID:8a58 227b09e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333999dc
REPLY: 1:104/447 29170642
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, George Harper said this to Becke Boyer about
ARROGANCE
GH> I am charged by my God to be concerned about the spiritual welfare
GH> of
GH> all, as are all Christians. Therefor, I fulfill this charge by
Firstly, you wanna fix your editor? I despise cleaning up sloppy text.
A clue, George, I am NOT a christian. My life needs no propping up with
your
fucking god. Next time you talk to him/her/it remind him/her/it that
his/her/its biggest mistake was granting myself and likeminded individuals
intelligence and the free-will to use it. Watch your own back, George,
for
surely you have more to worry about after death than I.
/\\ark...
... Why do Christians worship a god that violated a virgin's civil rights?
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Mar 97 15:56:25
EID:d17e 227a7f00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 33399b89
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3331dc8c
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Don Martin said this to Ken Young about Cracker
Barrel boycott
RS>> Rod "...you're really that stupid to try and put that one over
RS>> me?" Swift :)
KY>> Are you sure I am the stupid one?
DM> Why not? Everyone else is.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
/\\ark...
... Belief, believe, believes...conjugates of the verb "to blindly accept"
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Mar 97 16:23:21
EID:bdc2 227a82e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 3339a1d9
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 774e89f3
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Martin Goldberg said this to me about ...
G'day Martin,
[Jelly]
MO>> list of quotes that I threw back at him the other day was
MO>> only partially answered. The one that I really wanted an
MO>> answer to was omitted. Hmm...
MG> I don't know about Jelly. He has made every ignorant fundy comment
MG> that they all mkae. I think that he's trying to be stupid.
And doing an admirable job. His post continue to amuse though which, to
me, is
important. ;-)
/\\ark...
... Blind people don't bungee jump; it scares the dog too much.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Mario Gonzalez
|Sub: POLL
|Date: 27 Mar 97 01:17:07
EID:6265 227b0a20
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333a18e7
REPLY: 4:972/4.0 3335b2c8
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Mario Gonzalez said this to All about POLL
G'day Mario,
MG> THEISTWATCH SHORT SHOTS
MG> While most Americans believe in heaven, who gets to go there after
Mate, keep these coming if you've got them. They're very interesting.
MG> Dr. Mario Gonz lez
Doctor in which field, may I ask? There's quite a few professionals in here.
Alas, I am not among them. ;)
/\\ark...
... Yes, it DOES require faith to actively disbelieve in Santa Claus.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Mar 97 01:00:27
EID:dec9 227b0800
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333a1b0b
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33347952
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Ken Young said this to Christopher Hughes
about Cracker Barrel boycott
KY> God is who says who is a Christian and who isn't, and He authored a
KY> book that covers this topic quite well.
Show me _ONE_ reference in your bible that mentions christianity or christians.
/\\ark...
... ORGANIST TO GIVE ST. JOHN'S RECTAL. -- real headline (Richard Lederer)
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 27 Mar 97 01:57:03
EID:6a5a 227b0f20
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333a1bb4
REPLY: 1:123/67 3333a1ab
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Shelby Sherman said this to Ken Young about
Ken Young: Poster child
G'day Shelby,
SS> Just as a reference, how old are you, Kenny?
*** Area: HOLYSMOKE Date: 23 Mar 97 0:24:02
*** From: Ken Young (1:270/420.0)
*** To : Christopher Hughes
*** Subj: J.J. needs to be Hitt
CH> What do you think the
CH> benediction before every football game and graduation ceremony is?
I wouldn't know, as the schools I know of, don't allow it. Even back when
I
was in high school(I graduated in 90), they were trying to stop prayer being
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: God Scruffy
|Date: 27 Mar 97 01:48:57
EID:8ae0 227b0e00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333a261b
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 332d2392
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to Fredric Rice about
God
Scruffy
G'day Rod,
FR>> But my tirade was _serious_!
RS> So was mine :) :) Hair of the dog, Brother Fredric? :) :)
I *LOVE* trivia and spend a reasonable amount of time on the Etymology
pages looking for interesting things. My current fave is
http://www.phoenix.net/~melanie/thelogic.htm. Check it out one day. Some
interesting stuff on there. Anyway....
Trivia time: The phrase "hair of the dog", as we all know, is having a
shot of beer or whatever in the morning after a heavy drinking session to
make us feel better. (Yeah, RIGHT!). Anyhow, it apparently has it's
origins back in ye olde days when rabid dogs were a bit of a problem. As
far as the story goes when a victim of a rabid dog bite needed curing, a
herbalist(?) mixed up a foul brew containing all sorts of disgusting
ingredients including a single hair off the dog in question. The bite
victim then had to swallow the entire concoction including the all
important dog hair. This, apparently, was the only way to prevent the
onset of rabies.
/\\ark...
... According to Ken Young, Xtians who sodomize children are still Xtians.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Mark O'neill
|Sub: Blavatsky
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:53:32
EID:21fa 227b76a0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 333ade4f
PID: CNet PRO 4.26a (final beta)
Mark wrote to Buster about the paradoxes involved in using Christians
as lightning conductors on church steeples:
GD> I just thought I'd let you all know that the most despised
GD> ex-HOLYSMOKE writer this side of Palestine is back, for a while
GD> at least.
MO> Welcome, Graham Erectus, Oh Great One who walketh about upright. :-)
Yeah, well, my knuckles still drag on the ground. :)
GD> ... O instrument of God, force-fed on ignorance and lies.. - Walkyier
MO> Top tag. Sounds vaguely familiar. Hmm... :)
Speaking of old Marty, you might be interested to read this:
------------------------------------------------------------
FROM: Ric Carter
TO: Me
SUBJ: Blavatsky
GD> mentioned in this song lyric by Martin Walkyier and I'd like to
GD> find out who it is.
GD> One man - one vision, racial purity,
GD> madman or magician? A mystery to me,
GD> he who scorns the teachings of Blavatsky count the cost,
GD> there's more than superstition hides behind the crooked cross.
"Madame" Helena Petrovna Blavatsky [1831-1891], co-founder of the
Theosophical Society [New York, 1875] was a circus equestrian,
traveler and "spiritualist" who populated her fantasies with
"Tibetan adepts", "Eqyptian mystic masters", etc... and her
writings were largely plagarisms from various works including
Ignatius Donnelly's ATLANTIS. Blavatsky's doctrines include
the Great White Brotherhood, the Ascended Masters, and other
prototypes of fascist mysticism. Read about her in DEJA VU:
The Hidden History of the New Age, by Jay Kinney, included in
THE FRINGES OF REASON, ed. by Ted Schultz [Harmony/Crown, 1989].
BTW "racial purity" is a crock of shit, and an exceedingly
bloody and deadly crock at that. The entire song you quote
is a paean to hate, fear and violence. Try something else.
------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm! Something tells me he doesn't recognise satire.
Gang warily
Buster
... Primus in orbe deos fecit timor - Petronius
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Homer Simpson
|Sub: Re: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:53:39
EID:6c8a 227b76a0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 333ade58
PID: CNet PRO 4.26a (final beta)
F> "I dip my forefinger into the watery blood of your impotent mad redeemer,
F> and write over his thorn-torn brow: The TRUE prince of evil - the king
of
F> slaves!" - The Infernal Diatribe/Anton Szandor La Vey
F> See how this works, boxhead? No substance and no *evidence* that this
F> event has or will ever take place. Save your quotes for someone who
knows
HS> Well like i said to you before Fleagle, you believe what you want, and
HS> i'll believe what i want.
Are you actually *reading* what Fleagle has written?
HS> that they like a certern car , house , song , food, and so on, that
HS> you did'nt like, would you give them crap, like you do to Jammer and
HS> myself?
I would if they told me that the thing they liked was the only
good thing of its kind, and that everyone who doesn't like it
will suffer.
F> Why is there no historical account of moses parting the Red Sea besides
F> your bible? With the tens of thousands of people that made the journey
to
F> the promised land, surely at least one of them would have recorded the
F> event. Or did they all bear false witness? Give me one non-religious
F> account and I may believe it.
HS> Concerning Moses and other topics, i'll see what i can find.
Ha! I'll get back to you shortly!
Gang warily
Buster
... I'm in the Jehovah's Witness Protection Program.
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Homer Simpson
|Sub: Spelling is a lossed art
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:53:47
EID:62f3 227b76a0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 333ade5d
PID: CNet PRO 4.26a (final beta)
F> _I_ don't know what I'm talking about? And you do?
HS> yes i do know what im talking about, not beacuse i speak not of
HS> myself, but becuase i speak of JESUS.
Why do you worship Jesus? Aren't you meant to be worshipping God?
Jesus does not exist any more except in fables.
Oh, yeah, you like Bible quotes, eh? Compare these.
------------------------------------------------------------
Numbers 23:19 - "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither
the son of man, that he should repent."
Exodus 32:14 - "And the Lord repented of the evil which he
thought to do unto his people."
------------------------------------------------------------
Exodus 33:20 - "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no
man see me, and live."
Genesis 32:30 - "I have seen God face to face."
------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 19:26 - "Jesus ... said unto them, With men this is
impossible; but with God all things are possible."
Judges 1:19 - "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the
inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the
inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
------------------------------------------------------------
Check six
Buster
... I call Christianity...the *one* mortal blemish of mankind. - Nietzsche
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Eric Draven
|Sub: god in my visions
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:53:47
EID:7307 227b76a0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 333ade61
PID: CNet PRO 4.26a (final beta)
Connor. Speed. Draven. Henderson. Beale.
ED> but the bible you people are balieving in now is ridiculous!
ED> He says most importantly is for you to be yourself!
ED> NOt what the pope is TELLING you to be!
Amen to that!
Check six
Buster
... So much wrong could religion induce. - Lucretius
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Graham Drummond
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: nu-bible.txt
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:53:55
EID:df69 227b76a0
MSGID: 3:640/375@fidonet 333ade64
PID: CNet PRO 4.26a (final beta)
Hitler. Stalin. Armstrong. Mussolini. Mao Tse Tung. Drummond.
Ja> What's more, It says in the Bible(tm) that if you tell people once and
Ja> they argue, just leave.
GD> Why?
SA> Because even the writers knew it wouldn't stand up to proper
SA> scrutiny?
It seems too many xtians are afraid of intelligence.
Check six
Buster
... Easter has been cancelled. They found the body.
--- CNet/4
* Origin: Verbal Verbatim 07-3396-4054 203.3.126.194 (3:640/375)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:13:24
EID:d20c 227b71a0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333ad4e4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33325ace
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to me about Ha!
G'day Rod,
MO>> nails and as rough as guts. I defy anyone to call this gentleman
MO>> "giggly".
MO>> RS> Maybe we should introduce Jimson to him :) :)
MO>> Sounds like a top idea to me mate. Afterall, young Staalin only lives
a
MO>> few miles from here. Perhaps I could start an innocent discourse on
RS> No. Jimson is in Michigan. We'd be introducin' Laurie to him :)
Doh! I fucked up! Could you ever forgive me? ;-)
/\\ark...
... Apathy error: Don't bother striking any key.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:15:47
EID:38c4 227b71e0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333ad573
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33326d7c
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to me about Exemplifying
examples
G'day Rod,
MO>> Hmm... I shudder to think. I wonder if his wife/other half is a
MO>> fruitcake as well?
RS> Probably as nutty as!
Or as meek as. :-/
MO>> Trying to catch up on a backlog of mail ATM. I'm getting mail
a
MO>> month old thanks to fido + I moved house a couple of days ago and
RS> Well, just remember to get going on the packets asap! :)
It's coming! It's coming! :-) Got another 13 messages to add to the list
today. I'm slowly clawing my way back. ;-)
/\\ark...
... A book is the only immortality.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:18:34
EID:22db 227b7240
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333ad61a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33326df8
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to me about [1/3] Cheese
Whiz
G'day Rod,
[Staalin]
RS> Remember this folks.....
MO>> Better than that mate. Tagged and archived.
RS> And remember to hold it against him at EVERY point.
:-) Last night I set my mailer to keep a base 20,000 messages in this
area. I'll up it when I need more. BTW, that mormon anti-masturbation
guide was a pisser. Damn near fell off me chair. ;-)
/\\ark...
... "Light the Wickramsingh and throw the damn thing!"
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Mar 97 14:20:10
EID:e8c3 227b7280
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333ad67a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33327da0
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to me about Cracker Barrel
boycott
G'day Rod,
MO>> Is it just me or does Jelly need taking out the back and given a few
MO>> gangster slaps Al Capone style to snap him out of it? I'd be worried
if
MO>> I thought he was serious.
RS> He is serious, and we are worried. Nuts like him, in about 2-3
RS> years, are out murdering gays for Jesus.
:-( A fundy with a gun. What more could you ask for? :-(
/\\ark...
... "I seemed to have misplaced my brain, again." : Steve Hayes
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 28 Mar 97 00:41:07
EID:3014 227c0520
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333ad7ba
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 2892816c
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Fredric Rice said this to me about
Educational Experienc
G'day Fredric,
[George Harper]
GH>> The Flood: Noah took several HUNDRED years building the Ark, and
GH>> and back them up with common sense arguments at least as strong as
FR>
Ain't it a pisser! I may be going out on a limb here but I'll jump in and
say that I find the idea of a 200 year old man ripping around the
countryside in a homemade boat a little ridiculous. Am I being too harsh?
mon>> Need anything be said?
FR> They don't even try any more, huh?
To be an idiot? No.
/\\ark...
... T'was a women who drove me to drink. Never had the chance to thank her
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: The IRCops are comin
|Date: 28 Mar 97 00:42:04
EID:5acf 227c0540
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333afd43
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33337bb8
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Rod Swift said this to Jason Harmon about
The
IRCops are comin
G'day Rod,
JH>> classic "Fuck the skull of Jesus!" No one could take offense with
JH>> that.
RS> Oh, ok. For a limited time I have the "FUCK THE SKULL OF JESUS"
RS> picture that was drawn for the newsgroup alt.fuck.the.skull.of.jesus
I'd like it mate. I can grab it off your webpage or you can email it to:
moneill@erebor.apana.org.au or fleagle@verbal.apana.org.au
Apana is currently upgrading their software (fuck Apana shit me to
tears!), so email may bounce. :(
/\\ark...
... snerkum jerkum herkum giggle me Elmo -- David Ragland
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 27 Mar 97 17:20:24
EID:1579 227b8a80
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333b00b8
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 3e307ca8
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Jim Staal said this to Dan Ceppa about Ha!
JS>> Not at all. Just sticking to the letter of what I actually said. I
JS>> think this stuff out carefully, you know.
DC>> IOW, Jimbo, you careful edit your quotes instead of outright
DC>> lying your ass off.
JS> I careful about what I say, yes.
^
Obviously, Jim. Obviously.
/\\ark...
... "Honest, Centurion! I thought that horse was inflatable!" - Jesus aged
14
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Mark O'Neill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 27 Mar 97 17:29:42
EID:71e2 227b8ba0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333b02e6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33368b57
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, Dan Ceppa said this to Ken Wiens about jesus
needed...
G'day Dan,
RS>> Your own dead homo on a stick is even un-Biblical :)
KW>> That concept is most certainly un-Biblical.
DC> So, Ken: why _do_ you worship a dead homo on a stick?
"Dead homos on a stick. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Only
half a dinar."
/\\ark...
... "I wonder who they could mean," said Loki innocently....
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: God Mark
|To: God Dan
|Sub: Motion Passed
|Date: 27 Mar 97 17:35:17
EID:ae35 227b8c60
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333b0435
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33368f14
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, God Dan said this to God Mark about Motion
Passed
MS>> HOW CAN YOU BOTH USE THE LORDS NAME IN VEIN?
GM>> Fuck off, you silly cow.
GD> I wonder what the poor deluded fool will say now. After all,
GD> there are now 3 Gods in this thread.
The more the merrier IMO. A bit of (un)common sense doesn't go astray.
GD> Let's form a Trinity and send her to hell for her blasphemy!
Maybe we could form a barber shop quartet? All we need is another god. I
don't think it'll hard to find another one.
/\\ark...
... "You have no knowledge of your true potential." - Ramirez.
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: God Mark
|To: God Dan
|Sub: Motion Passed
|Date: 27 Mar 97 17:37:00
EID:ae35 227b8ca0
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333b049c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33368fdd
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, God Dan said this to God Glodbreg about Motion
Passed
MS>> HOW CAN YOU BOTH USE THE LORDS NAME IN VEIN?
GG>> It's easy. Just change the "from" field.
GD> Wouldn't it be better to get her to learn how to use her
GD> FUCKING CAPS LOCK KEY first, God Glodberg?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
He's incognito. Doesn't want the peasants falling at his feet and shit.
/\\ark...
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: God Mark
|To: God Dan
|Sub: another for the FAQ
|Date: 28 Mar 97 00:43:03
EID:dc71 227c0560
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 333b05e5
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3336a279
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
While discussing the paradoxes involved in using Christians as lightning
conductors on church steeples, God Dan said this to Judith Bandsma about
another for the FAQ
GD> Sincerely your (And Mary Smiths' I'm sure!),
GD> God Dan
GD> PS: Don't use my name in vein.
You infidel! Using *MY* name in vein! I'll bet you control of an
insignificant, mis-guided race that my devout followers can spread more
lies than yours can!
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: "Newborn babies sin non-verbally." Ken Young (3:640/375.1)
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|From: Joel Pethuel
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Holy Smoke
|Date: 27 Mar 97 22:33:48
EID:a055 227bb420
MSGID: 1:352/666 333B6D33
KS> CT>What is this echo all about?
KS>
KS> About 12,500 miles.
Is that nautical miles??
... nfx v2.6 [C0000] When in doubt....ask someone!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/666)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: clones
|Date: 28 Mar 97 06:28:04
EID:21bb 227c3380
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 333bd017
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 7780e56d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> J.J. complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Harper <=-
H> escaped post-war Europe and established a research and
H> experimentation center in the jungles of South America.
JH> Do you have any way of verifying this? (And dont you think it
This was also a subtext of the game 'I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream'.
If you can't trust Harlan Ellison, who can you trust?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: ridiculous belief
|Date: 28 Mar 97 06:31:34
EID:3c2a 227c33e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 333bd018
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 55922fa1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Katherine complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Judith
<=-
KW> Remember, George doesn't need *facts*. He *believes*. Just like
KW> those suckers you used to fleece back when you were a carnie.
I know, Katherine. But shearing them is so much faster and you even get
to shed a little blood now and then.
I actually had to be NICE to those marks. At least to their faces.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 28 Mar 97 06:33:38
EID:f666 227c3420
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 333bd019
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 805f3aa5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Katherine complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Karl
<=-
KW> Karl, my dear, what ever gave you the idea that you had the ability
to
KW> turn or not turn the Harpies loose?
Get ready for the newest entry on the GOO pages. And this button will be
set apart from all the rest. Care to suggest some good music to add?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 28 Mar 97 06:35:34
EID:f666 227c3460
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 333bd01a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7215bd2b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Katherine complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Ken <=-
KW> deity that we're talking about here, or a really bad sitcom?
I picture Tim Allen and Roseanne Barr in a sort of Home (Un)Improvements...
only on a global scale.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Book
|Date: 28 Mar 97 10:31:50
EID:26e2 227c53e0
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 333a80d5
MSGID: 1:229/622 333b9ea0
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DM> As I get it together, I shall post pieces of it here for
DM> comments, corrections, suggestions, additions, etc.
DM> Comments?
I think it a wonderful idea and cannot imagine someone better
equipped to tackle it than yourself. You certainly have my
permission to quote anything I contribute that you might deem
relevant.
Good luck! I'll look forward to whatever comes of it.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: George Harper
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: FREEDOM OF CHOICE
|Date: 28 Mar 97 06:52:12
EID:7a25 227c3680
MSGID: 1:104/447 2c06e190
TID: GE 1.1+
KD> Then he made a certain percentage of his people homosexual. There must
GLH> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
GLH> And you, I presume, DO have evidence to support your claim?
JB> Yep, your very own source...the bible. Says that god created
JB> EVERYTHING. Weren't you the one that said the bible is inerrant?
Yes, I said the Bible is infallible, ergo inerrant. YES! God IS the Creator
of All Things. Yes, God is the Author of ALL life! Yes, God even created,
via the heterosexual coupling of various pairs, even the persons who
subsequently CHOSE to follow a homosexual life-style. Ergo, you are
TECHNICALLY correct...God DID create the persons who became homosexual.
Don't celebrate too soon...read on!
You merely scored a minor point! Homosexuality IS - and always will remain
-
nothing more, nor less, than a freely-made lifestyle choice. God created
YOU female
human being....He made Don Martin a MALE...that's the set...
Male and Female...no inbetweens, no neutrals...
While there ARE milieu in which persons are raised that MAY pre-dispose
them to selecting a same-gender sexual orientation, the final decision
to enter and live that lifestyle is THEIR FREE WILL CHOICE, freely made.
For the uninformed: milieu a total environment,
encompassing all things that have impact on any designated subject....
(This is the thumbnail definition from my Psych 101 text, c1975)
Now...AGAIN...I challenge you to prove that Homosexuality is the result
of any genetic structure or other physical causal factors...If your
evidence is properly stated, and includes *unbiased* MEDICALLY provable
statements, I will admit defeat, and apologize to all homosexually-oriented
persons for having thought they had a choice. BTW: I decide biases in this
matter, so include the names of your sources, and location, so that I
can, if I want, verify their lack of bias.
... All I need is a Wave and a board to surf it on.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- mil failte, caraid
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Book
|Date: 28 Mar 97 08:09:01
EID:841b 227c4120
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333bdcda
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 4a713474
Ed Mills said "Book" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> As I get it together, I shall post pieces of it here for
DM> comments, corrections, suggestions, additions, etc.
EM>
EM> Egad! I've had this same idea. Also have vainly saved all my own
EM> posts (what few there have been) and selected ones here & there.
EM>
EM> Wouldn't it be nice to have a chapter containing a short interview
EM> of each HS regular? Someday we could all wind up as a collective
EM> national treasure - like the Mouseketeers or something. Hi mom!
EM> I'm on tee-vee... er, in a book!
You do good stuff, Mills, but you simply haven't rolled
around here long enough to have gathered enough floppy disks
filled with moss. This is a great idea, though. I had
already thought of asking for "favorites" from everyone's
archives, but "observations" (this medium does not do
interviews reliably) from various participants, written
expressly for inclusion in the book, might make an excellent
chapter, or headnotes to the various chapters, or both. I
welcome all such material, either here or by email.
I _will_, incidentally, edit such material for length
and for typos; in all cases where I do anything substantive,
I will run the result by the author for approval. The
chapters will be posted here in any event.
Here are some chapter ideas so far:
---------
o Introduction:
Mainstream vs fringe POVs as determinants in
thinking styles.
o HolySmoke:
The arena. Religious debate. Topics not broached in
"polite" society. The Rules. Being kicked off the
echo. Fundies. WOAs. Religion and politics.
o Gods = >1.5 million: Evidence = 0
The ways in which gods for whose existence no
evidence exists differ from nonexistent gods. The
nature of evidence. Why the "word of God" is not
evidence for the existence of God.
o Floods and The Flood:
Opportunity for the spiritual to leave some physical
footprints. Marine fossils on mountaintops! Four-lane
highways to the top of Arrarat and other Turkish
wonders (including steering wheels). Scientific
reflections on atmospheric pressures, heat of
formation, hydrospheres and the like.
o Why are you so angry?
The fundy interest in delving into the psychology of
anyone asking embarrassing questions.
o Kill the faggots
And keep their partners from embarrassing the family
by coming to the funeral.
o Abortion as a social occasion
The slut deserves to be a mother (after all, MY
mother did).
o The Bible of the Inerrantists
HOPPERS! Pi. General confusions, scribal errors,
conflicting data: God is My Proofreader.
o When prayer is outlawed from schools, only outlaws will pray
in class.
o The Fundy Shuffle
Favorite evasions and logical fallacies.
o Fundy Farewells:
Sheneisms. Pray for you. Pitchforks.
-----------
I welcome suggestions. Warmly.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 28 Mar 97 11:48:29
EID:9894 227c5e00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333c03d5
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 333a99ea
Judith Bandsma said "Driving Mr. Daisy" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> See if you can figure out on your own (no coaching from
DM> the audience, please!) a plausible explanation for
DM> varicosity and hemorrhoids. I await the attempt with
DM> interest.
JB> Shit, Don. I already uploaded a reply with those
JB> answers to him before I read this. Sorry.
JB> However, I have no doubts that his reply will be 'I
JB> still don't understand how it does that'.
I began my reply before reading the last two lines and
discovered that I was saying essentially the same thing. Is
it great minds? Or is it predictable targets?
Later, you say to the dear boy himself:
KY> If someone didn't have homosexual sex, it wouldn't mean
KY> greed, but rather that they were willing to stand on
KY> principle, no matter what.
JB> Why are you talking 'greed'? Rod's example said that
JB> your whole FAMILY was going to be killed if you didn't
JB> have sex with the agent.
JB> So you are saying that you find gay sex more repulsive
JB> than the deaths of people you love?
JB> How sweet. Have you told your family you feel this way
JB> about them?
It is a good deal easier for him to have to tell them
_that_ than it would be for him to go through with the sex
and have to tell them how much he enjoyed it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: clones
|Date: 28 Mar 97 12:21:10
EID:a889 227c62a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333c03d6
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3339d09e
Richard Smith said "clones" to George Harper,
adding:
MB> There's a HUGE difference between cloning and artificial
MB> insemination.
gh> Of course there is...AI involves the use of semen entering the
gh> cow's uterus, by way of an injection. Cloning is where the
gh> researcher implants live, viable DNA samples into a uterus.
RS> Not quite. Just putting DNA into the uterus isn't enough.
RS> It must be put in an egg before the egg is put into the
RS> uterus. You need to do a bit more reading on it.
George's failure to grasp the finer points of cloning to
one side, have you ever pondered the question of whether or
not Jahweh possesses DNA? The ramifications thereof are
interesting.
Not to mention the fact that the Holy Genome Project
would _really_ require a lot of research grants . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 28 Mar 97 12:27:44
EID:f4f1 227c6360
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333c03d7
REPLY: 1:106/4015.0 6caa50eb
Marty Leipzig said "Educational Experienc" to Judith Bandsma,
adding:
JB> Hint for you...it hasn't.
GH> Perhaps YOU need to read up on recent (last 30 years) history?
JB> No, you need to talk to Marty Leipzig...and the Turkish authorities.
JB> No ark. A tribe of natives that are making a killing selling pieces
of
JB> it that they manufacture themselves. And some bandits who are making
a
JB> (literal) killing ransoming back the nuts who try looking for it.
JB> But no ark.
ML> George won't talk to me.
ML> GOAT!
ML> I'm *so* depressed...
He's been asking after you, though. Only last night he
was complaining that everybody here is sending him to Marty
and he doesn't know why (though he _suspects_ that Marty
might be another of those WOAs).
Good to see you back. How's your punctuation mark?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 28 Mar 97 12:31:13
EID:f4e3 227c63e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333c03d8
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 3339bb66
Unctuously addressing his point, KY said "Cracker Barrel
boycott" to Rod Swift, adding:
KY> Gays can become Christians, but not while they are gay.
RS> Bullshit. Galatians 2:16-21 states that no one is bound
RS> by the law if they accept Jesus Christ personally.
KY> True, but accepting Him is accepting what He stands for
KY> and accepting what He says is right and wrong, so
KY> therefore one could not accept Him as a homosexual.
Apart from the fact that you _still_ haven't offered any
evidence that your imaginary superfriend is anything more
than a construct of human imagination, where does _Jesus_
(and not those other homophobic motherfuckers) say that
homosexuality is wrong?
Let he who is without sin enjoy the first orgasm!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: George Harper
|Sub: clones
|Date: 28 Mar 97 12:40:50
EID:2056 227c6500
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 333c03d9
REPLY: 1:104/447 2b97c98e
George Harper said "clones" to J.J. Hitt,
adding:
JH> Do you have any way of verifying this? (And dont you think it
JH> would be a good idea to confirm such a claim before one goes
JH> and repeats it in an international forum?)
GH> This is sound advice...how come it only applies to claims made by
GH> Christians? I don't see ANY substantiation offered for claims that
GH> the God I follow is a myth,
I have never claimed that. I _have_ asked you for some
evidence that the god you follow _exists_ beyond the level
of human imagination. I have seen bullshit from your end,
attempts to lay down rules for others, assertions that you
once had a teacher who supposed that evidence exists, but no
evidence.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Where the spine is misaligned! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: George Harper
|Sub: ARROGANCE
|Date: 28 Mar 97 09:09:41
EID:af95 227c4920
MSGID: 1:123/67 333b8b8f
REPLY: 1:104/447 2b97c991
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
27 Mar 97 23:06, quoting George Harper to Martin Goldberg:
MG>> to hell. I will not. No hell exists for me. It's only it he
MG>> minds of xtian fools.
GH> I admit the statistical odds appear overwhelming. If you believe your
GH> odds are better than mine...show me the math! I dare you!
It's not his burden to show you the math, you logical train wreck. It
is the burden of the individual making the _positive assertion_ to provide
convincing evidence to support their claim.
If _you_ claim that hell exists, then you get to provide the evidence.
Do
you have any?
GH> And if YOU
GH> are wrong, and the RIGHT choice has a hell, you're gonna fry along
GH> with all the others who made a bad choice, no matter how strong your
GH> denial.
The Cosmic Star Goat (The one and only True God) sent his only forgotten
son,
Billy, to die on the Wholly B-B-Q Pit for our sins.
If you do not BELIEVE in Billy,
you will be eaten on Judgment Day by The Cosmic Star Goat, to stew in the
Wholly Bile for all of eternity.
You can avoid this eternity of punishment by being bathed in the Wholly
Piss of The Cosmic Star Goat and having all of your SINS washed away.
This Cosmic TRUTH