God Damned Fundies!
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Animals needed.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:12:16
EID:b027 21944980
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86512621
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 10-Dec-1996, "Animals Needed!")
JM> On 28 Nov 96 Laurie Appleton penned the following to Ed Mills
LA> Perhaps you can tell me and others how large a Dinosaur
LA> baby is when it is first hatched from the egg? Then you
JM> Perhaps you can tell us which dinosaur? Or do you know any?
Pick any one you like. After all paleontologists have
found plenty of Dinosaur eggs haven't they?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Allele frequency.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:13:14
EID:52f9 219449a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8651269e
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 10-Dec-1996, "Central Mystery.")
LA> What a shame you are so ignorant of such basic matters as
JM> Basic matters like allele frequency,
Ah yes indeed, John. Your current fixation eh? It is
appallingly stupid of course.
"An historic conference in Chicago challenges the
four-decade long dominance of the Modern Synthesis"
"The changes within a population have been termed
microevolution, and they can indeed be accepted as a
consequence of shifting gene frequencies. Changes above the
species level - involving the origin of new species and the
establishment of higher taxonomic patterns - are known as
macroevolution."
"The central question of the Chicago conference was
whether the mechanisms underlying microevolution can be
extrapolated to explain the phenomena of macroevolution. At
the risk of doing violence to the positions of some of the
people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear,
No."
(As reported by Rodger Lewin, "Evolutionary theory under
fire". Science, vol.210 (4472), 21 November 1980, p.883.
If you are unable to follow what these leading
scientists(?) are saying then get back to me and I will try
to help!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Justified reward.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:14:16
EID:005b 219449c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86512723
Hi Snarl,
(Re: yours of 12-Dec-1996, "Stalin Worship.")
LA> Yes, I have noticed a certain crudeness in your messages!
LA>However, don't forget that it was the evolutionists that went
LA>into PANIC MODE at the prospect of having to face "Balanced
LA>Treatment"? It is therfore clear who are the ones that were
KS> No, moron. Not panic, just exasperation that there are
KS> more asshole cretinists than is justified.
To say nothing of the facts that 80-90 percent of the
population were in favour of balanced treatment, weren't
they? That must have been VERY frustrating to all those
evolutionary purveyors of codswallop and hogwash! Even
worse must have been the fact, that the late (dead at
present) Isaac Asimov tipped the "can" over evolutionists
when he admitted that;
"The public has remained anti-evolution to this day. . . .
the general public, in what is probably the majority
opinion if a vote was taken, stubbornly adheres to the
tenents of a lost and dead orthodoxy of a century and a
quarter ago."
(The Roving Mind, Isaac Asimov, 1983, p. 50)
It must indeed be desperately FRUSTRATING to all you
evolutionary MYTH MAKERS, when, after having stolen the rights of
students to "balanced treatment", you then to find that, after
120 years of your silly arguments, you have to admit that the
public just does not "buy" your silly fairy tales that you
are falsely try to call science!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: ???
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:19:56
EID:8843 21944a60
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 865129f0
Hi Ed,
(Re: yours of 12-Dec-1996, "Tripe as Facts.")
EM> Laurie Appleton to Karl Schneider on 10 Dec 96:
LA> "This immediately places both evolution and creationism
LA> at the same level in the eyes of the public. At the same
LA> time, it strengthens the facade that creation science is a
LA> valid scientific theory and has nothing to do with the Bible
LA> or evolution."
EM> I take it you're wearing bulletproof shoes.
No need for that at all, since Creationists see it as
dishonest to be demoted to the level of evolutionary quackery,
fairy stories and mythology, as you will see from the
following, by a leading evolutionist of a few decades ago,
who honestly faced the facts when he said;
"With the failure of these many efforts science
was left in the somewhat embarrassing position of
having to postulate theories of living origins which it
could not demonstrate."
"After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth
and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of
having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption
that what, after long effort, could not be proven to take place
today had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past."
(Loren Eiseley, Ph.D. (anthropology), "The secret of life"
in The Immense Journey, Random House, New York, 1957,
p.199.)
So "science" (falsely so-called) has long since been
found quite unable to support its claims, whereas when they
have unwisely tried to debate the matter with the
Creationists they have made themselves look even sillier
still and they have admitted it! e.g.
'The impact of the debates can best be gauged by the
concern shown by the evolutionists. A letter to the editor
of BIOSCIENCE is indicative.'
"Why do creationists seem to be the consistent
winners in public debates with evolutionists? . . .
We biologists are our own worst enemies in the
creationist-evolutionist controversies."
"We must no longer duck this and other issues
related to biology and human affairs, and when we do
face them we must think clearly and express ourselves
accordingly. We may still not be consistent winners in
the creationist- evolutionist debates, but let the
losses that occur be attributable to other than lapses
in professional standards.
(Dennis Dubay, "Evolution/Creation Debate," Bioscience,
Vol.30, January 1980, pp. 4-5 - Ref, Evolution in Turmoil,
p. 117).
So there you have it. Face up to it or admit to
"believing" in evolution out of philosophical BIASES rather
than because any scientific facts or evidence supports it!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: heat
|Date: 19 Dec 96 06:10:48
EID:5479 21933140
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 15afcee8
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting CURTIS JOHNSON to JESSE JONES on 12-16-96
CJ>On 12 Dec 96 06:09am, JESSE JONES wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA:
CJ>SQ>> BF> So you're claiming that the athiests in this echo aren't
CJ>SQ>> BF> really atheists.
CJ>SQ>>Swell! Not only do these guys get to sit around and decide who
CJ>SQ>>is a True Christian and who is not, but also who is a "True
CJ>SQ>>Atheist." Man, I get tired of hearing that what I believe or
CJ>SQ>>don't believe has been categorized by someone with a holy book.
CJ> JJ> C'mon, Stevie, admit it -- you're an open book. Anyone
CJ> JJ> with eyes to see can see right through you.
CJ> JJ> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the
CJ> JJ> denizens of this hell hole are not in any way typical of that
CJ> JJ> small portion of atheists in this country. The writer's point
CJ> JJ> is well taken: those participating here obviously are insecure
CJ> JJ> about their atheism.
CJ> As the fundies are insecure about their Christian beliefs?
Yes, I think it is analogous. Fundamentalists do, in my
opinion, tend to be insecure in their faith, just as the denizens of
this hell hole are insecure in their unbelief.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/18/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
I do the work of 3 men. Curly, Larry, and Moe!!!
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
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|From: Mario Gonzalez
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 17 Dec 96 07:33:58
EID:f7fa 21913c20
MSGID: 4:972/4.0 32b8163a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 5eed206d
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
KW> Name Location Alignment In the
Mario Gonzalez Tijuana Mexico Atheist
Dr. Mario Gonz lez
__o Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico.
_ \<._ gonzalez@telnor.net
(_)/ (_)______.-.______.-.______ Vamos a andar en bicicleta
... Why, oh why, Lord, did you create stupid people too?
--- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro
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|From: Mario Gonzalez
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Signposts
|Date: 17 Dec 96 07:36:20
EID:3194 21913c80
MSGID: 4:972/4.0 32b8163b
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32b44032
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
CG> I propose that Catholic Saints are 'Signposts' which indicate the way
CG> to God - discuss.
Yeah right!
Yuk, YUk.
Dr. Mario Gonz lez
__o Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico.
_ \<._ gonzalez@telnor.net
(_)/ (_)______.-.______.-.______ Vamos a andar en bicicleta
... Too many people confuse free speech with loose talk.
--- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro
* Origin: -=+=- LA CONEXION MEXICANA = TIJUANA, MEXICO -=+=- (4:972/4)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Houston Shit
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:00:31
EID:deb4 2193b800
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72600d40
JH>> You know that mound of dirt at 59 and 610?
ML> That's alluvial fill, you geoheathen.
Shit... I coulda sworn it was dirt left over from when they built
the damned interchange.
JH>> then was a water slide, then a putt-putt golf kiddie park, then
JH>> a Country Western open air theatre?
ML> Location, location, location...
59 and 610, like I said. SW corner.
JH>> It is now "Prayer Mountain".
JH>> (I've no idea just what they do there yet, or who runs
JH>> it.)
ML> 10 to 1, it's the SoBapt's trying another way to turn a
ML> buck.
Nah... Without having even visted the place, I'm willing to bet
it's targeted at an even lower strata: black Reverend Ike clones.
(Where in the hell is Jew Don Boney's church anyway?) The hand
painted signs are a dead give-away. The Southern Baptists
would put up glitzy billboard like affairs you could see from orbit.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:12:20
EID:73a8 2193b980
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72601bd2
REPLY: 1:3612/63.0 8A58C6F1
On Dec 19 14:08 96, Victor Rojas of 1:3612/63 wrote:
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
I don't know if that's FAQ material or not...
But I'm going to be giggling over it for at least a week.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Victor Rojas
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:14:20
EID:bbb7 2193b9c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72601e65
REPLY: 1:3612/63.0 8A58C6F1
On Dec 19 14:08 96, Victor Rojas of 1:3612/63 wrote:
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
Ahem.... I *AM* a Church.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: JJ Predicts
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:18:01
EID:e61f 2193ba40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7260283a
Sean is going to take a powder soon.
(He's very buzy and has many important things to do. Oh, and
he also has a "Real Life" to take care of.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Das Uber Noel
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:07:25
EID:c92d 219388e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2b9efbb4
REPLYTO 1:203/2 UUCP
REPLYADDR aanews@listserv.atheists.org
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
PREACHER THREATENS BOYCOTT: MERRY ''CHRISTMAS'' -- OR ELSE!
Is "Christmas" going to be the next litmus test of
theopolitical correctness?
It may become just that if Pastor Jim Hagan of Colorado
Springs, Co. has his way. The Assembly of God minister is
threatening to begin organizing a boycott of merchants who
don't openly acknowledge Christmas through store decorations
and signage, or who wish customers a "Happy Holiday" instead
of the more sectarian, religious message he considers
appropriate.
Last year, Hagan placed an ad in a local daily paper
declaring that he was building a list of retailers who
refused to comply.
"There will be monitoring," Hagan has warned. "Should
we, who consider ourselves Christians, spend our money at
places that feel 'Christmas' is offensive? Aren't those
retail stores offending us -- the majority -- by promoting
Christmas spending but denying the origin and reason for
Christmas... Christ? After 2,000 years, have we still not
found room for him at the inn?"
Hagan warns that the Colorado boycott will mushroom into
a nationwide movement; the preacher told The Denver Post
yesterday that he is currently compiling a list of offending
merchants who do not wish holiday shoppers a "merry
Christmas."
But in Colorado, a state already polarized thanks to an
influx of giant, religious right organizations which have
established huge operations there, Hagan's black listing is
encountering skepticism and concern. An assistant Rabbi in
Denver told The Post that while it is "certainly appropriate"
for Christians to wish each other a "merry Christmas," Jews
often offer a salutation of "happy Hanukkah." Rabbi Sandra
Cohen added that she would "love to see stores back off of
sacred celebrations altogether."
Hagan claims that many merchants have ordered their
employees to wish the public a "happy holiday" ostensibly
because it is what the minister described as "politically
correct." But a spokesperson for the Ross department store
told The Post that company policy is for employees to wish
everyone a "happy holiday" because the greeting "covers all
the bases." Other retailers expressed puzzlement about the
entire issue, saying that they do not have a specific policy.
Colonization, Attack
The President of the Colorado Springs Association of
Evangelicals declared that while he appreciated Pastor
Hagan's concerns, "with all the culture wars to fight about,
that (the greeting controversy) would probably be one I would
probably be a conscientious objector to. Rev. Stephen Todd
described the issue as one laden with "semantic land mines."
But Hagan's campaign may resonate with the growing
segment of fundamentalists and evangelicals who see
Christianity -- and religion in general -- "under attack" by
a wider and pluralistic secular culture.
Boycotting merchants who do not pass muster on a
religious litmus test like a holiday greeting is really not
much different from the "Christian yellow pages" one finds in
many communities, or the use of a fish logo on advertising to
signify that the merchant is Christian. And there is Rev.
Hagan's reference to "us -- the majority" (i.e. Christians),
a telling remark in a wider debate about whether the United
States is a secular nation, or one based up religious and
specifically Christian beliefs.
-- from AMERICAN ATHEISTS AANEWS #217 12/9/96 (Nightowl
Edition)
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Legal Christmas.
|Date: 19 Dec 96 08:27:06
EID:eaca 21934360
MSGID: 1:203/2.0 2b9efbb3
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, LEGALLY SPEAKING
Whereas, on or about the night prior to Christmas, there did
occur at a certain improved piece of real property
(hereinafter "the House") a general lack of stirring by all
creatures therein, including, but not limited to a mouse.
A variety of foot apparel, e.g. stocking, socks, etc., had
been affixed by and around the chimney in said House in the
hope and/or belief that St. Nick a/k/a/ St. Nicholas a/k/a/
Santa Claus (hereinafter "Claus") would arrive at sometime
thereafter.
The minor residents, i.e. the children, of the aforementioned
House were located in their individual beds and were engaged
in nocturnal hallucinations, i.e. dreams, wherein vision of
confectionery treats, including, but not limited to, candies,
nuts and/or sugar plums, did dance, cavort and otherwise
appear in said dreams.
Whereupon the party of the first part (sometimes hereinafter
referred to as "I"), being the joint-owner in fee simple of
the House with the parts of the second part (hereinafter
"Mamma"), and said Mamma had retired for a sustained period
of sleep. (At such time, the parties were clad in various
forms of headgear, e.g. kerchief and cap.)
Suddenly, and without prior notice or warning, there did
occur upon the unimproved real property adjacent and
appurtent to said House, i.e. the lawn, a certain disruption
of unknown nature, cause and/or circumstance. The party of
the first part did immediately rush to a window in the House
to investigate the cause of such disturbance.
At that time, the party of the first part did observe, with
some degree of wonder and/or disbelief, a miniature sleigh
(hereinafter "the Vehicle") being pulled and/or drawn very
rapidly through the air by approximately eight (8) reindeer.
The driver of the Vehivle appeared to be and in fact was, the
previously referenced Claus.
Said Claus was providing specific direction, instruction and
guidance to the approximately eight (8) reindeer and
specifically indentified the animal co-conspirators by name:
Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner and
Blitzen (hereinafter "the Deer"). (Upon information and
belief, it is further asserted that an additional
co-conspirator named "Rudolph" may have been involved.)
The party of the first part witnessed Claus, the Vehicle and
the Deer intentionally and willfully trespass upon the roofs
of several residences located adjacent to and in the vicinity
of the House, and noted that the Vehicle was heavily laden
with packages, toys and other items of unknown origin or
nature. Suddenly, without prior invitation or permission,
either express or implied, the Vehicle arrived at the House,
and Claus entered said House via the chimney.
Said Claus was clad in a red fur suit, which was partially
covered with residue from the chimney, and he carried a large
sack containing a portion of the aforementioned packages,
toys, and other unknown items. He was smoking what appeared
to be tobacco in a small pipe in blatant violation of local
ordinances and health regulations.
Claus did not speak, but immediately began to fill the
stocking of the minor children, which hung adjacent to the
chimney, with toys and other small gifts. (Said items did
not, however, constitute "gifts" to said minor pursuant to
the applicable provisions of the U.S. Tax Code.)
Upon completion of such task, Claus touched the side of his
nose and flew, rose and/or ascended up the chimney of the
House to the roof where the Vehicle and Deer waited and/or
served as "lookouts." Claus immediately departed for an
unknown destination.
However, prior to the departure of the Vehicle, Deer and
Claus from said House, the party of the first part did hear
Claus state and/or exclaim: "Merry Christmas to all and to
all a good night!" Or words to that effect.
Respectfully Submitted, s./
The Grinch
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Brian was the Messiah!
|Date: 13 Dec 96 19:06:12
EID:bb49 218d98c0
MSGID: 1:203/2.0 2b9efbb5
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
This and the following post were both pretty amusing, and I
thought, topical here, so . . . if you ever wondered who the
REAL Messiah actually was:
* Copied (from: alt.fan.monty-python) by Richard Smith using timEd 1.01.
Careful viewers of "The Life of Brian" will remember the
scene in which Michael Palin, as one of many street-side
prophets, said, among other things, "And a friend shall lose
a friend's hammer."
Later in the movie, Brian, fleeing the Roman centurions,
climbs a spiral staircase in a tower, and approaching the
top, causes a workman to DROP HIS HAMMER! Surely the hammer
was a hammer belonging to a friend! And just as surely, the
workman lost it!
Is this not a fulfillment of prophecy? Is this not proof
enough for you non-believers? Forget the damn sandle, follow
the gourd! And remember, as Brian preached, that we are all
individuals, even if you, sir, think that you'e not!
Kevin Jones, aka no relation to the nude organist
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: Equal time to the Devil
|Date: 15 Dec 96 13:07:51
EID:c1fd 218f68e0
MSGID: 1:203/2.0 2b9efbb6
REPLY: 1:203/2 66d8c040
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
Just a brief bit of fair dealing here, giving equal time to
both sides. After reading this wanker, you may be as glad as
I am that we only have garden-variety loons like Ahardon and
Stutters the Clown . . .
* Copied (from: alt.fan.monty-python) by Richard Smith using timEd 1.01.
I have been using spam for a year now, and I realize that ...
I AM THE DEVEL. I AM SATAN HIMSELF. BOW DOWN BEFORE ME
MORTAL FOOLS. IF YOU DO NOT BELEIVE ME I PUNISH YOU TO
ETERNAL PAIN AND TOURURE. NOW WHERES MY SPAM? BRING ME MY
SPAM INFANIT MORTALS
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: whose mantra?
|Date: 20 Dec 96 00:06:01
EID:7309 219400c0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9400856f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 18 Dec 96 09:48am, LEE WOOFENDEN wrote to ROBERT CURRY:
LW> From a scientific point of view, you are right. Reality being made of
LW> matter vs. reality being made of consciousness--when each follows the
LW> same universal laws of behavior--are isomorphic situations. As far as
LW> science is concerned, it
LW> does not matter whether reality is made of matter or of consciousness,
LW> as long as it obeys regular laws that can be determined through the
use
LW> of scientific method.
LW> However, as I said to Martin Goldberg, we are not dealing with
LW> scientific issues here. We are dealing with philosophical and/or
LW> religious issues. The entire point of the discussion (from my point
of
LW> view) is to show that we cannot demonstrate (or disprove) such
LW> statements as "reality is made of matter," "reality is made of
LW> consciousness," "reality is made of spirit," and "reality is made of
LW> God" through science or logic.
LW> If people wish to hold to one of those beliefs, I have no problem with
LW> that. The problem comes when someone claims that s/he can _demonstrate_
LW> that one of them is true or one of them is false.
If you can demonstrate that consciousness also can be
predicted in precise *mathematical* detail, you might have an
argument worth listening to. If you can't, I don't think it is
worth listening to.
... So many messages, so few megs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1443
* Silver Xpress V4.00
H
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:22:12
EID:b7ab 219362c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9830b
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b86b30
Determined to win recognition as the Fairest Fundy of Them
All, Nate Cookson said "Cheese Whiz" to Don Martin,
adding:
NC> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead
NC> fetuses:
NC> Put tem down the garbage disposal, stick them in garbage bags and
NC> stash them in a store room to rot. Dumped in trash bags along with
etc.
So? It surprises you that tissue removed in an operation
is disposed of in ways that clash with your doubtless
refined sense of aesthetics? Yep, aborted fetuses are tossed
out just like excised tonsils, amputated toes, or excavated
tumors. One of the reasons ordinary people are kept out of
operating rooms is that the actions there are often not
pretty.
What would you propose for the fetuses? Pop them in
formalin in little bottles so the Mommies could take them
home for the mantelpiece? Dry them into relics, like the
three foreskins of Jesus on display in Europe, so that they
could be made into costume jewelry? Send them to the
mortuary, so that the Parents could buy them a teeny-tiny
funeral, complete with a little casket and a midget
preacher?
If these things are not to be thrown out, what would you
do with them?
Seriously, I am interested in your answer, and I suspect
that I am not alone on this one.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Around the world in 80 pr
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:43:58
EID:5090 21936560
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9830c
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72296548
Martin Goldberg said "Around the world in 80 pr" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM>> If it parts the labia, is it Kosher?
MG>> We'll just wait and see if a jewish girl will eat it. If
MG>> not, it's Kosher. Right?
DM> Of course right!
MG> I had no idea you spoke yiddish.
You should see the shrug.
DM> So what the hell--let's go the extra inch and buy the kid a
DM> condom, too.
MG> A "Glow in the Dark" one. For the handicapped.
I saw a brand name for one of these the other day: would
you believe a "Knight Light"?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:03:41
EID:9520 21937860
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9a407
Marty Leipzig said "2 corinthians 9:13" to Don Martin,
adding:
CG> Any Christian has to be wary of claiming miraculous cures, savings,
CG> etc. simply because 'Acts of God' are very rare.
ML>
ML> So rare, in fact, as to not exist.
ML>
CG> Haven't examined the small print in your Insurance policy lately - you
CG> don't get a pay out on, 'Acts of God'.
ML>
ML> Seems the old insurance companies got us coming and going...
DM> They saw us coming and have got us going.
ML>
ML> And, lo, the land was smote with a plague of insurance salemen.
Like locusts with briefcases.
Let me say, parenthetically, that you have the most
diverting diverticulitis I have ever encountered, but I do
hope you get better.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke on the local level
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:10:07
EID:8878 21937940
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9a408
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a685
Fredric Rice said "HolySmoke on the local level" to Don Martin,
adding:
> Here in Columbia, the local hospital does an annual
> "Symphony of Lights" as a fund-raiser in Symphony Woods, a
> municipal park. Our local newspaper, the Columbia Flier
FR> [...cuts...]
FR> I quite liked it. I'm always happy to see HolySmokers out actually
FR> doing something of benefit for all humanity, raising a voice of reason
FR> among all the insanity.
Well, it might happen if the thing gets printed. I'll
keep my eye on the sheet (actually, given the fact that the
Letters to the Editor are about as fun-filled as HolySmoke,
you couldn't keep me from it).
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: HolySmoke on the local le
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:15:10
EID:969b 219379e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9a409
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ c1c90d80
Sally Springett said "HolySmoke on the local le" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> So in my own letter to the editor, I said:
SS> You are cruel!
So glad you noticed, m'dear.
SS> The poor man is probably still shaking his head. I'm
SS> sure it came as a severe shock to him that anyone might suggest
SS> that there are competititors to his god much less the nerve to ask
SS> for equal time for them. The naivete of these people cannot be
SS> overstated.
I rather like the idea of the religions chipping in a
little _cash_ to the public good for a change. That's a new
one to them, too.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:19:11
EID:78f0 21937a60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32b9a40a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 09c27fd6
David Worrell said "Warring Christanic Factions" to Don Martin,
adding:
DW>> Hardy seems to have become an agnostic. Let's hope he
DW>> hasn't been taking lessons from Billy.
DW>> I'll try emailing the log to your internet address.
DM> Is this the same Hardy?
DW> As near as I can tell.
DM> Did the old one post from
DM> Alabama? (I thought he was in Texas).
DW> No, he was from Alabama.
Hmmmm. Shows how much _I_ know.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: False Christian Scum [2/2]
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:08:00
EID:a137 21935100
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32b9c122
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Richard Smith cast False Christian Scum [2/2] at
Sue Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Oh, BYW - Becke doesn't appreciate the blatant lies you've
SA> been spouting about her. Several of us have heard becke's
SA> side of the story; consider yourself branded a liar. You'll
SA> be hearing from her quite soon, BTW. And her husband, a
SA> Republican, thinks you're a total blot, as much as, or more
SA> so, than any of the "liberals" here.
RS> Speaking only for myself, I appreciate you posting this so
RS> that I can get some of the gist of Becke's side of the story.
RS> While I may have sympathized with Sean's feelings, etc., when
RS> he related his `events' to us, I did realize that I was
RS> hearing only one side. I liked Becke quite a lot, and hope
RS> to eventually hear her complete side as well.
I'll certainly pass on what she has to say - after I send her a
complete collection of what Sean had to say, tonight. I'll have her
write out something in her own words and DCC me a copy for public
posting.
--Wolfie
"Sean. A two-legged rat. Can't even use 'im for hunting
practice. Passing laws to protect him is like passing laws to
protect cockroaches."
--BlackAdder
lupus Red Talon Ragabash
Fostern, New Hope Sept, England
... And Satan said to God, "But where will YOU find a lawyer?
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:44:01
EID:81af 21937580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32b9c123
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Dave Hamilton cast ask and ye shall rece at Curtis
Johnson .. and all hell broke loose.
CJ> Another major reason hops are used, I understand, as a
CJ> preservative. The typical US mega-brand of beer uses little or no
CJ> hops, which is one reason the taste deteriorates so badly on the
CJ> shelf.
DH> Oh, *that's* what it is.
I was kinda wondering myself. It tastes like it goes skunky a mere
hour after it leaves the brewery.
--Wolfie
"Sean. A two-legged rat. Can't even use 'im for hunting
practice. Passing laws to protect him is like passing laws to
protect cockroaches."
--BlackAdder
lupus Red Talon Ragabash
Fostern, New Hope Sept, England
... "If we do happen to step on a mine, sir, what do we do ?"- Baldrick
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MIRACLE:PROFESSION OF
|Date: 18 Dec 96 16:31:00
EID:1691 219283e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> I still want it made into a movie. (Utopian dream...)
I thought of another one; Helstrom's Hive.
Sort of, anyway...
... Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your taglines!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 18 Dec 96 17:47:00
EID:1be6 21928de0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Fredric Rice <=-
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
At the very least, it would cut down on the repetitious BS you
post here. Wiccans do not seek converts or argue their own
personal beliefs. That's why they get less flak.
Except from me, once in awhile, just to keep things balanced.
Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
... This BBS has achieved Air superiority.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: WHY GOD?
|Date: 18 Dec 96 17:51:00
EID:a00e 21928e60
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> Because He's the simplest hypothesis which covers the greatest number
AS> of phenomena that we observe in the world. From the anthropic
AS> coincidences, to man's altruistic impulses above and beyond societal
AS> necessity, to man's
AS> religious or transcendent impulses (by saying there is something
AS> there that IS transcendent). BEFORE THE BEGINNING by George Ellis (the
AS> cosmologist) makes an excellent case thereof.
Whoa there, Al. Just because it's one word (God) does not make it simple.
You open up a whole can of worms. Which God, what are his characteristics,
where did He come from, how do you know, etc. etc. etc.
... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 19:25:34
EID:f1b1 21939b20
MSGID: 1:123/67 32b996e2
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32b8d766
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
16 Dec 96 01:21, quoting Steve Hayes to Shelby Sherman:
DW>>> Why don't you stop doing the fundy shuffle and answer Shelby's
DW>>> question?
SH>> Why don't you stop doing the false squelch and admit that I did?
SS>> No you didn't, bullshitter, you spewed some nonsense about
SS>> needing a liver. We ALL know the value of a properly functioning
SS>> liver. This has been evidenced and is well documented medically.
SH> Well, since you're such a fundi - produce the evidence.
You've turned out to be quite a Moron, even for a fundy.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Nick Andre
|To: All
|Sub: :)
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:50:09
EID:996f 21935e40
MSGID: 1:340/14 b18bd9f6
TID: GE 1.11+
Whats everyones view on that stain on the office building in Florida that
resembles the "virgin" mary? :)
--- Renegade v5-11 Exp
* Origin: The Athiest Gatherings BBS (1:340/14)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: You got that wrong!
|Date: 18 Dec 96 07:55:40
EID:872e 21923ee0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32b96ca8
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 861161cd
Hello idiot-child...
Still attempting to weasel your way out of your poor
scholarship, eh?
On 04 Dec 96 11:03:38, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: You got that wrong!
LA> The Cambrian is an evolutionary hypothesis, of course,
"Of course"? You're getting more stupid with every post,
Laurie.
LA> "Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described,
LA> one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations.
Actually, Erlich is right. Evolution itself is so well
documented that it cannot be refuted. Your pissing into the
wind is evidence of that.
LA> Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is
LA> thus "outside of empirical science" but not necessarily
LA> false."
Gene sequencing, idiot-boy. Allele frequency is definitely
INSIDE of empirical science.
LA> "No one can think of ways in which to test it. Ideas,
So 30 years ago Erlich was ignorant. What's your excuse?
LA> The above is as good as admitting that evolution is really
LA> little more than fairy tales and dogma, resulting from
The above is as good as your admitting that you are stupid and
ignorant and that no amount of education can "cure" you.
In other words, you're going to remain stupid or die trying.
What a goof!
John
... 5th Rule of Creationism: Lying for the Lord is okay.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:57:21
EID:be46 21934f20
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6874
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A50D32B
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Judith Bandsma, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 06:15:00:
SH> I've got an even better one for you - why are you fascists so afraid
SH> of sponge cats?
JB> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
Answer the question, fascist.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... Exercise your right to arm and keep bears!
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:58:03
EID:5f31 21934f40
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6875
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ad13e261
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Fredric Rice, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 19:01:12:
ss> Now, be a good little christian and tell me why I or
ss> anyone elses *needs* to be saved.
FR> Answer the question, Steve. Of what possible benefit can you be
FR> thinking you derive by not answering the question?
Let Shelby answer the question./
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... I love Fredric - he makes ME seem normal!
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Drew Barrymore
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:00:04
EID:a823 21935000
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6876
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ae8a33b9
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Drew Barrymore, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 14
Dec 96 10:09:01:
DB> Why do I need to be saved?
You're the only one who can answer that question.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... Antelope, cantaloupe, folly go through
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:02:44
EID:281b 21935040
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6877
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b4bda98
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Richard Smith, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 15
Dec 96 21:39:33:
RS> Now that we know that you can't answer the question put to
RS> you, watch the others start to walk away in boredom.
RS> Good job, Steve . . . you're going to be universally ignored.
Why do you think I need attention, especially from people who post such
inane and boring drivel as I've seen here over the last few weeks?
I'm actually amazed they've kept it up for so long.
... Let us be brave and punctual; and vituperative and good-looking
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:08:03
EID:c711 21935100
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6878
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b4bda99
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Richard Smith, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 15
Dec 96 21:42:48:
SH> I doubt that there is any smooth path through HolySmoke, and
SH> it does not strike me as the sort of forum where people ask
SH> questions in the hope of receiving an honest or useful
SH> answer, or where one could expect to receive one. Most
SH> questions appear to be trolling, and where there is HolySoke
SH> there is often UnholyFire and where there is fire there are
SH> usually flames.
RS> And so you won't even try? Then why be here, if you have
RS> nothing to contribute? What is your pay-off, so to speak?
Payoff? There hasn't been one yet.
I suppose I continue in the hope that someone may come along who shows some
glimmer of intelligence, and that in an echo with such a high volume there
might be some signal among the noise, but I haven't seen it yet.
... No one can move, move, move, like the Red Tribe do - MUFC
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:12:04
EID:0169 21935180
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6879
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0085cfaa
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to David Worrell, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 16
Dec 96 00:31:00:
DW> In a message to Richard Smith you wrote:
SH> I doubt that there is any smooth path through HolySmoke,
SH> and it does not strike me as the sort of forum where people
SH> ask questions in the hope of receiving an honest or useful
SH> answer,
DW> Could you whine a little louder? Some echo participants might not have
DW> heard this one.
DW> You really should be more considerate of the people here with hearing
DW> problems.
SH> I DOUBT THAT THERE IS ANY SMOOTH PATH THROUGH HOLYSMOKE,
SH> AND IT DOES NOT STRIKE ME AS THE SORT OF FORUM WHERE PEOPLE
SH> ASK QUESTIONS IN THE HOPE OF RECEIVING AN HONEST OR USEFUL
SH> ANSWER,
... How could you nurd me with your cordwangle so?
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:13:15
EID:0169 219351a0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba687a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0091b13f
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to David Worrell, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 16
Dec 96 00:44:00:
DW> Luke 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that
DW> taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
DW> Why do we need to be saved?
There are some questions that people need to answer for themselves, and
that's one of them.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... Umuntu ungumuntu ngabantu - a person is a person because of people
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: nihilistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:09:23
EID:611c 21936120
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba687b
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af159302
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Fredric Rice, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 15
Dec 96 20:57:05:
sh> Wrong.... I never made the assertion at all.
sh> You made the assumption that I did.
FR> Once upon a time I archived every message to floppy so that
FR> Christianic death cultists could have their noses rubbed in their lies
FR> when they demanded they never made an outrageous claim. Now I see
FR> that I'm going to have to start archiving the echo again -- and for
FR> the same reasons.
FR> Were you instructed to lie by one of your death cult masters? Is that
FR> it?
Wow, we are getting frustrated, aren't we?
Run ten times round the block and take a cold shower - I've been told that
can help.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... Spring is coming. De birds is singing. De Kock is crowing
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: christian freewill TWO
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:37:14
EID:95d6 21935ca0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba687e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b49da3
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Al Schroeder, who wrote to Curtis Johnson on
15 Dec 96 17:55:20:
CJ> They have shown themselves, across a wide span of history,
CJ> to be more inclined to active destruction than benign neglect,
CJ> compared to other religions.
AS> Tell that to Diocletian.
And it might be interesting to take a look at the activities of the League
of Militant Atheists in the 1920s and 1930s... it seems that even those
who claim to have no religion at all have similar tendencies.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... We evangelize. You proselytize. They are religious fanatics
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: christianity
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:44:36
EID:6fbb 21935d80
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba687f
REPLY: 1:261/1137 920688db
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Curtis Johnson, who wrote to Christian Hedemark
on 18 Dec 96 04:23:03:
CH> I was just reading about that being so in Albania, up till recent times.
CH> The country was officially atheist. They went so far as to chop crosses
CH> off of tombstones. Clergy were killed or imprisoned. Any "religiously
CH> oriented" books were banned. Then as soon as communism fell, the great
CH> thirst for God surfaced from many people... people who had heard nothing
CH> of God their whole lives, readily accepted all they could grasp.
CJ> Pre-Communist Albania was almost entirely Muslim.
It was about 70% Muslim, 30% Christian (20% Orthodox, 10% RC) in 1945.
The proportions have varied over the years, though there were no Muslims
at all before the Turkish conquest in 1389, and resistance was only crushed
in 1521.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
... No one can move, move, move, like the Red Tribe do - MUFC
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:38:26
EID:f3d5 219364c0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6880
REPLY: 1:123/67 32aec411
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Shelby Sherman, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 09:21:15:
SH> Why don't you stop doing the false squelch and admit that I did?
SS> No you didn't, bullshitter, you spewed some nonsense about needing a
SS> liver. We ALL know the value of a properly functioning liver. This
SS> has been evidenced and is well documented medically.
It is also medically documented that paracetamol destroys the functions
of the liver, and some people deliberately overdose on paracetamol.
So why not drop the evasion and answer the question?
... Reality is an illusion caused by mescaline deficiency
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:52:40
EID:281b 21936680
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6881
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2aeec1b5
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Richard Smith, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 08:05:34:
MG> Why do we need to be saved?
sh> Why do you need to ask why you need to be saved?
RS> What word did you not understand?
sh> Non sequitur.
RS> Although the words non and sequitur (sic) were not in the
RS> question, do you actually need them to be explained to you?
RS> Which word in MG's question, or what part of it, did you not
RS> understand? Or are you simply unable to answer it?
Your question (sic) was a non sequitur, because it is not a question (sic)
of not understanding (sic) words (sic).
It is not the words, but the particular combination of them, that is meaningless.
I'm still waiting for him to give an honest answer to the question.
... How could you nurd me with your cordwangle so?
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:58:24
EID:281b 21936740
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6882
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2aeec1b6
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Richard Smith, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 08:08:41:
RS> Are there any pleasant ways to go?
SH> But that raises the question of why anyone NEEDS to go
SH> pleasantly.... they might want it, but do they actually need
SH> it... where's the necessity?
RS> The necessity of what?
Going pleasantly.
... As a river flows always towards its mouth, so fire burns
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:00:26
EID:0a7b 21936800
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6883
REPLY: 1:123/67 32aed9bb
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Shelby Sherman, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 10:55:40:
SH> His/her response to my answer indicated that it wasn't an honest
SH> question.
SS> I'm male and 48. Now that that is out of the way, how do you get
SS> off judging on whether or not my question was "honest", whatever
SS> that means.
SS> Why don't you just answer it?
I answered it.
You said you already knew the answer.
If you already know the answer, why do you ask?
... Shelby Sherman's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:16:05
EID:cde1 21936a00
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6884
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 71462017
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Martin Goldberg, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
29 Nov 96 08:52:14:
MG> Keep your analogies. Tell us why we need to be saved.
Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone need
a
liver?"
The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the universe
and
everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when we
look
at the world around us there are a lot of things that don't look good -
war,
oppression, crime, sickness, and so on. Christians regard these as evil,
or as
sin. "Sin" means falling short of the target, or failing to reach a goal.
The
world has somehow failed to reach the goal of "goodness".
Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random occurrence,
but is actually caused by a power or force that promotes it. There is ill
will
behind it. Christians believe that the world is enemy-occupied territory,
and
the enemy who occupies it is the devil, or the satan (which means enemy,
adversary, opponent, public prosecutor, district attorney).
Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration camp,
with Satan as the commandant.
Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the mess
it had
got into, but acted to get out of the mess. God became man, and entered
the
concentration camp in the guide of a prisoner. The guards knew there was
something odd about this particular prisoner, but weren't sure what. They
decided to get rid of him, and executed him but that was their downfall.
As
the Christian scriptures put it, "None of the rulers of this age understood
this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"
(I Co
2:8).
Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the gates
of the concentration camp. Christians believe that this is good news, and
that
they should tell others the news that the commandant is locked up, and the
gates are broken down. Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the
devil, evil, sin and death.
So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone needs
to be
saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration camp.
Of course if you don't share those assumptions, and you don't think the
world
is like that, then it won't make much sense to you. You might think that
there
is neither good nor evil, and that there is no purpose in existence, and
that
life came into being purely by chance and that the events that we observe
or
think we observe are just one damn thing after another with nothing either
better or worse than anything else. If you see things that way, then being
saved is no different from being damned.
... I'd love to stay here and be normal, but it's just so overrated
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:18:19
EID:0a7b 21936a40
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6885
REPLY: 1:123/67 32aec4e1
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Shelby Sherman, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 09:26:51:
SH> No, my china, you ASSUMED I made the claim...
SH> Now stop jumping to conclusions before we start to laugh at you.
SS> Let's cut to the quick then. Does anyone NEED to be saved.
SS> Yes or No.
I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone need
a
liver?"
The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the universe
and
everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when we
look
at the world around us there are a lot of things that don't look good -
war,
oppression, crime, sickness, and so on. Christians regard these as evil,
or as
sin. "Sin" means falling short of the target, or failing to reach a goal.
The
world has somehow failed to reach the goal of "goodness".
Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random occurrence,
but is actually caused by a power or force that promotes it. There is ill
will
behind it. Christians believe that the world is enemy-occupied territory,
and
the enemy who occupies it is the devil, or the satan (which means enemy,
adversary, opponent, public prosecutor, district attorney).
Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration camp,
with Satan as the commandant.
Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the mess
it had
got into, but acted to get out of the mess. God became man, and entered
the
concentration camp in the guide of a prisoner. The guards knew there was
something odd about this particular prisoner, but weren't sure what. They
decided to get rid of him, and executed him but that was their downfall.
As
the Christian scriptures put it, "None of the rulers of this age understood
this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"
(I Co
2:8).
Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the gates
of the concentration camp. Christians believe that this is good news, and
that
they should tell others the news that the commandant is locked up, and the
gates are broken down. Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the
devil, evil, sin and death.
So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone needs
to be
saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration camp.
Of course if you don't share those assumptions, and you don't think the
world
is like that, then it won't make much sense to you. You might think that
there
is neither good nor evil, and that there is no purpose in existence, and
that
life came into being purely by chance and that the events that we observe
or
think we observe are just one damn thing after another with nothing either
better or worse than anything else. If you see things that way, then being
saved is no different from being damned.
... I'd love to stay here and be normal, but it's just so overrated
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 7107/9 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:19:06
EID:0a7b 21936a60
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6886
REPLY: 1:123/67 32aeda13
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Shelby Sherman, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 11
Dec 96 10:57:01:
SH> I'm saying that asking about "needing" to be saved is a meaningless
SH> question.
SS> O.K., dipshit....here is the question in a different form:
SS> Should a person endeavor to become "saved" in the christian sense?
SS> If yes, Why? Thanks in advance for your answer.
I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone need
a
liver?"
The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the universe
and
everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when we
look
at the world around us there are a lot of things that don't look good -
war,
oppression, crime, sickness, and so on. Christians regard these as evil,
or as
sin. "Sin" means falling short of the target, or failing to reach a goal.
The
world has somehow failed to reach the goal of "goodness".
Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random occurrence,
but is actually caused by a power or force that promotes it. There is ill
will
behind it. Christians believe that the world is enemy-occupied territory,
and
the enemy who occupies it is the devil, or the satan (which means enemy,
adversary, opponent, public prosecutor, district attorney).
Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration camp,
with Satan as the commandant.
Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the mess
it had
got into, but acted to get out of the mess. God became man, and entered
the
concentration camp in the guide of a prisoner. The guards knew there was
something odd about this particular prisoner, but weren't sure what. They
decided to get rid of him, and executed him but that was their downfall.
As
the Christian scriptures put it, "None of the rulers of this age understood
this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"
(I Co
2:8).
Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the gates
of the concentration camp. Christians believe that this is good news, and
that
they should tell others the news that the commandant is locked up, and the
gates are broken down. Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the
devil, evil, sin and death.
So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone needs
to be
saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration camp.
Of course if you don't share those assumptions, and you don't think the
world
is like that, then it won't make much sense to you. You might think that
there
is neither good nor evil, and that there is no purpose in existence, and
that
life came into being purely by chance and that the events that we observe
or
think we observe are just one damn thing after another with nothing either
better or worse than anything else. If you see things that way, then being
saved is no different from being damned.
... I'd love to stay here and be normal, but it's just so overrated
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Re: Christians v Guns
|Date: 17 Dec 96 19:54:56
EID:bd20 21919ec0
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf37
TID: GE/32 1.2
CG> What do the various Christians using this echo feel about Guns in
CG> general?
Well, I'm Roman Catholic When
it
comes to guns, I'm somewhat indifferent. I don't own any, but don't look
down
on those who do.
CG> Is it every Christian American's inalienable Right to carry arms, and
CG> shoot his neighbour?
Well I'm neither an American (Canadian), nor do I think owning a gun means
you
neccessarily claim you have some right to murder.
CG> Does loving thy neighbour and enemy include shooting them?
It most certainly doesn't. I'm somewhat alarmed with the "kick butt" attitude
of SOME American Protestants.
For me, owning a gun is for sporting purposes, such as hunting or target
shooting, and possibly for home defense. But I don't see why anyone needs
to
own an M-16, or build an arsenal. I guess it's the paranoid, uncharitible
attitude of such owners that I'm not fond of. Though apparently your
constitution allows people to do such (stockpile guns, etc.) Here, we don't
have any "fundamental right" to weapons.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Re: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 17 Dec 96 19:56:34
EID:bc3c 21919f00
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf38
TID: GE/32 1.2
CG> Christians!
Chris! :)
CG> Do Sinners have the same Rights as Folowers of Christ?
We all, human beings as bearers of the image of God, have certain fundamental
rights, based on the principle of charity and reverence for God.
CG> Are Sinners non-human?
No, they're all too human. :)
CG> If Sinners are no longer human, then it must be OK to shoot them?
Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Matt Weese
|Sub: Re: Holiday Books
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:01:33
EID:dc94 2191a020
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf39
TID: GE/32 1.2
MW> I was wondering if any of you knew of any books, or text (ASCII, PostScript
MW> etc) about where holidays REALLY originated from. I'd like to be able
to s
MW> down at the family table this year and start a discussion about who
started
MW> XMas, what all the icons represent (tree, mistletoe, etc.), and the
little
MW> rituals of the holidays (exchanging presents, Santa Claus)...
Well it depends "whose traditions" one is examining. Some are under the
impression that these traditions are at all universal, which they are not.
Some eastern rite Christians don't even celebrate Christmas on the same
day,
and they also put emphasis on other feasts in that season, such as the feast
of St.Nicholas (who has virtually nothing to do with "Santa Claus").
Things like "the tree", etc, are fairly western symbols. More than likely
alot of them had pagan origins, but were adopted by Christians as symbols
of
our faith. Evergreens, for example, are about the only plants which do
not
wither during the decay and death of the winter season, and thus serve as
a
symbol of life and hope.
I'm not sure where the presents came from, but I do know what the Christian
significance is. Personally, I like the way the eastern rites play down
the
whole "gift giving" part of the holiday, children being given simple
meaningful gifts, the religious significance of the occassion remaining
in
tact.
As for sources, I can only suggest hitting your local library. They must
have
something on the subject.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Re: Darkness
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:04:12
EID:47b2 2191a080
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf3a
TID: GE/32 1.2
GT> Yes, whether Jeshua was the Christos that the prophesies seem to hint
at or
GT> not, is open to debate. It is unfortunate that, if he existed, he didn't
l
GT> writings of his own.
In a way, I think he left a more powerful testimony, in the martyrdom of
all
minus one (St.John) of His Apostles. They were obviously pretty convinced
of
the truth, to suffer and die for it as they did.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: Heathens
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:28:13
EID:92e4 2191a380
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf3b
TID: GE/32 1.2
DW> JJ> Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and
DW> JJ> this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God--"
DW>
DW> (James 2:24 KJV) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,
and not
DW> faith only.
DW>
DW> (James 2:25 KJV) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by
works
DW> when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another
way?
DW>
DW> (James 2:26 KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith
with
DW> works is dead also.
Indeed, "Sola Fide" folks have a tendency not to read St.James' Epistle.
:)
If memory serves me correctly, Mr"Sola Scriptura" himself, Martin Luther,
had
it put in an appendix without page numbers, because it burned him so badly.
In St.John's Gospel, the Lord says to His Apostles "without me you can do
nothing." He does not say "With me, you need do nothing." The quote from
Ephesians 2:8 that the fellow gave to you, is a reflection of this sentiment.
One must first have faith in God (the Pauline definition of faith extending
well beyond mere "belief" but encompassing obedience and full trust), in
order
to recieve the graces they need to live as members of Christ.
Members of Christ, must have good works to recommend them. Otherwise, their
faith is immaterial (a matter of mere "intellectual acceptance" of certain
doctrines, not submission to God), and they are not recipients of the "grace"
which St.Paul speaks of in Ephesians. Even St.Paul says throughout his
epistles that Christians can most certainly "be lost"...in 1st Corinthians
he
speaks plainly about the neccessity of endurance and perseverence, applying
this principle to himself. In 1st Corinthians 9:27 plainly says that even
he
who has preached to so many, could potentially be lost, without perseverence.
I only mention Paul, because he is practically the core of protestant
theology, almost to the total exception of anything said in other epistles,
or
even in the Gospels themselves.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: satanism
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:32:38
EID:0280 2191a400
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf3c
TID: GE/32 1.2
KW> KW>We would love to book the Real, True Christ (tm) in here. You can,
of
KW> KW>course, produce this living God of yours in the flesh, can't you?
RS>
RS> [Kenny:]
KW> Comments like the above reveal how far removed you are from a
KW> reasonable understanding of the subject.
RS>
RS> But are you one of those claimants to be a "real Christian(tm)"?
RS> Can you tell us the criteria of a "real Christian(tm)"? Is it
RS> "anyone like me"?
I think the person's point was simply that the person who made the comment
about producing Christ in a visible manner at this time, really has no clue
as
to what they're talking about.
It's not a matter of this person neccessarily being sectarian; simply being
able to read.
The Lord told His disciples that He'd have to leave them soon. But He
promised not to leave them orphans, but give them another comforter; the
Holy
Ghost. He won't be coming back visibly for awhile...or it could be tommorow.
Who knows...the angels don't even know. :)
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Lies...
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:37:25
EID:fdb7 2191a4a0
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf3d
TID: GE/32 1.2
KW> DC>Note the primary meaning. Your godling was willing to follow the
KW> DC>laws of the Hebraic bible. Even the second usage implies following
KW> DC>through with the "old" laws.
RS>
KW> You totally missed what the Scripture said above, as well as
KW> what Jim said. Because Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law His
KW> followers, i.e., Christians are not under the Law.
RS>
RS> Why do you idiots still quote the OT laws, if they are no longer?
This whole line of discussion is complex, in that it requires a thorough
understanding of CLASSICAL Christian thought on the subject.
St.Paul speaks often about "the Law." By this he is reffering to the Torah,
and it's ordinances. An early conflict in Christianity was whether or not
gentile converts had to first convert to Judaism before they could be members
of Christ, or whether they need only be baptized. In fact the broader
question became whether the Torah and it's ritual ordinances were binding
upon
Christians at all, who were supposed to have "died" in their baptism, and
rose
to a newness of life.
What was contested were the ordinances of the Torah. The moral teaching
found
in it in fact antedates it, as the Torah itself reveals (ie: there were
"just"
men before the time of the Mosaic Covenant of Israel.) Thus, the OT is
useful
in this aspect; proclaiming moral truths. It's also useful in that it points
to Christ, both in prophecy and archetype. It's also a practical history
of
God's people.
Thus, one can quote from the OT. It is not "invalid", as even Christ said
Himself. He did not come to abolish the Torah or it's reading and study,
but
came to fulfill it.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJ
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:41:51
EID:11be 2191a520
MSGID: 1:221/203 0afbdf3e
TID: GE/32 1.2
LB> Christians are brand new people on the inside. The Holy Spirit gives
LB> them new life, and they are not the same any more.
RS>
RS> The strange thing is that Christians and non-Christians are
RS> exactly the same on the inside -- body tissue, fluids, etc.
Come on Rod, you seem (from your posts at least) a little more intelligent
than this. You know what they're talking about; the soul, who we
fundamentally are as human beings.
We die in our baptism to natural life, and are called to a newness of life.
Our walk as Christians is to conform, by God's grace and mercy, to this
calling.
Though I'm not always successful, I'd have to say I'm very different from
the
non-Christian.
RS> Christianity is the brainwashing of the feeble into something to
RS> place hope in when all hope is gone.
This is of course merely your opinion, as a hostile outsider. :) It's
meaningless for you to try to tell me personally "why" I'm a Christian,
or why
anyone is for that matter.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AND MORE LIFE.
|Date: 17 Dec 96 10:41:00
EID:fae9 21915520
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E41
RH> -=> Quoting Ronald Vass to Dave Hamilton <=-
> RV> I've mention to others before, it's a dark scarry world out there
> RV> when you feel your the only one.
RH>But Ron, you ARE the only one. Not only that, you're going to DIE!
To die, that in itself, isn't what i fear. The way and means of dieing
does cause a fear, that i won't denie. I've been on the borderline of
the body shutting down. It was a V E R Y N I C E feeling. I don't
fear that part at all, if anything, i look forward to it again.
RH>Live with it.
I do.
* SLMR 2.1a * I used to get stiff in the joints so I quit going to them
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: coincidence none
|Date: 17 Dec 96 13:16:00
EID:dd50 21916a00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E42
RC> RV> Not sure about the proton charge but to the electron charge/mass,
RC> RV> if I'm reading and understanding the material correctly, there
RC> RV> can be a difference in the charge/mass of the electron to electron
RC> RC> .... smacking heads and the resulting particles+energy thereof.
RC>I'm sorry, but I can't make heads or tails out of that.
I stated it in very bad form but you did give an answer that
i was asking about.
~~~~~~~~~
-Date: 12-16-96 (01:04)
-From: ROBERT CURRY
- To: AL SCHROEDER
-Subj: coincidence none
~~~~~~~~~~
AS>> How do the electron proton charge strength differ? Not at all,
AS>> to the limits of testability.
RC> Is there any reason to think that charge is a continuous, rather
RC> than a discrete natural quality?
AS> None, in the set of constants we have in this universe. But note;
AS> all other things concerning the electron and proton (mass; spin,
AS> etc.) are very different.
-So what? Spin is also a discrete quality, btw.
-Mass either may or may not be; we don't know. For your information,
-it happens to be a fact that any sufficiently large collection of
-discrete entities will *approximate* a continuous range.
This is the answer to my bad form question. ie: approximate
* SLMR 2.1a * I've used up all my sick days, I'm calling in DEAD.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 17 Dec 96 13:37:00
EID:9170 21916ca0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E43
>> RC> Sorry, Al, but you're just behaving like an ignorant bullshitter
>> RC> again. Your preposterous definition of plasma is quite a keeper!
> AS> Indeed? Then favor us with your own.
> RV> Be funny as Hell, if Curry does it in math.
AS> Sure would. When we're talking about a physical state of matter.
E=MC^2 ... M=C^2/E ... no ? either way all he would have to
do then is place it with an excess charge + - . It would be
like him describeing the Northern Lights in a math format as
to why they happen and the how, of them happening.
Then too, I'm likely way out to lunch on that. I'm sure he or
someone will correct me.
* SLMR 2.1a * If I used taglines, I would steal this one.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: DAVIES THEE
|Date: 17 Dec 96 16:48:00
EID:a9c6 21918600
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E44
AS> RV> , and let all but one of the remaining massless gauge bosons
AS> RV> be sold into infrared slavery. That one last gauge boson is my
AS> RV> favorite. Let him rush forth to illuminate all my creations!"
AS> RV> From ....Fearful Symmetry.... page 232....
AS> RV> ~*~
AS> Could be.
I think you would also enjoy his writeing. I did wonder where he was
going with a toss out of 'mother earth' and a 'creator'. Almost sounds
as if he had two god types in there, a minor and a major.
* SLMR 2.1a * If It Screams, it's not food . . . . . yet . . . . .
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Star Goat loves each
|Date: 17 Dec 96 14:50:00
EID:b4de 21917640
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E45
JB>-=> Ronald Vass spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> RV> Christ, Curry shows up and every one starts talking math just
JB> RV> to impress him.
JB>Not me...I grew up in a time when it was expected that the only math
JB>a woman would be able to understand would be how to calculate mixing
JB>baby formula. (1 can of formula to 1 can of water) And women weren't
JB>supposed to even be able to balance a checkbook.
The house hold i grew up in, the female balance the money, then
too, she help build the addition, mix cement, turn the ground over
laid bricks, etc. All that male bullshit stuff.
JB>I KNOW I'm smarter than that, but I still have this thing of "I DON'T
JB>WANT TO DO IT" when it comes to math...even simple arithmetic. I get
JB>really bitchy when I have to do the business books and nobody wants to
JB>be around when I have to do the quarterly tax computations.
Dad was an accountaint, so he did the tax bit, it was just a minor
detail, since he did the company tax detail also. Going by my
grandmother/mother/sister/sister in laws, and their female chrildren.
I don't think we had any wimp women, so far. Some of kids are too young
yet to be sure how they will turn out. But the format is there, for them
to follow if they wish.
So far, none of the women like math, then too, they don't like
computers either.
* SLMR 2.1a * If You Can See This Tagline , Guess What, Your In Hell !
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: And more life.
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:21:00
EID:036e 21917aa0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E46
> DH>> Forcing people who want to die to stay alive. Why make sense?
> RV> I have no problems with those who are old, or a terminal illness
> RV> or those who have lived a bit. I'm sure as hell not sure how i would
> RV> answer that if i had a child, that at age 16 or so, said the same
> RV> thing.
DH>With a teen you have the opportunity to address the cause of the
DH>depression, and try to convince the kid that s/he won't feel this
DH>bad forever. You can hardly do this with a terminal patient.
I was kind of looking at it as if legal for one group ie: the old
and tried or the fatal sick. Then it would also have to be open for
anyone. If it every gets allowed here, then i can see another
battle like the anti-abortion group. However the rules are apply
it would be another can or worms.
It is what i would support, then like i also indicated. Even I, would
find it hard to allow the young access to it and thats not being fair.
> RV> I've dealt with a couple of trouble teens and sweeted blood hopeing
i
> RV> wouldn't say a key, that acted as a final trigger. It's hard to get
> RV> across , to keep trying but be honest and also admit that there's
> RV> going to be a lot more shit down the road, they will have to face.
DH>That's true. But quality of life isn't the absence of problems; it
DH>is how you cope with the problems you get.
I've always wonder to myself, if i have the right to interfear in
their life. They may have presented their wish to me
and if i happen to have turn them on their path, by accident i may
turn them on a worst path. That is my biggest fear when this happens.
* SLMR 2.1a * If at first you don't succeed,Then Skydiving isn't for U
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Enochban.Rit
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:22:00
EID:c395 21917ac0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E47
JB> RV> I find it funny, that the news papers,write at a grade 6 or 7 level,
JB> RV> else they wouldn't have enought buyers of the paper. When you hear
JB>Did you see the BC cartoon in Sunday's paper? It was a hoot.
Can't say I did. What did i miss out on ?
* SLMR 2.1a * If atheism is Not religion, then christianity is Idiocy.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:24:00
EID:465b 2191a300
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E48
CJ> RV> I natter for nothing other then to natter, for that, I thank the
CJ> RV> moderator of this area.
CJ> FWIW, Ronald, I think I've observed an upward trend in your
CJ> grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. The practice must be
CJ> helping.
I amaze or is that amuse myself, with the abuse, I can do to the
written word.
Now the comma king is back, we'll have someone else bitching about
the abuse, i do to the written word.
Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
' I control the mind of God'.
I see Al is so close to the bottom of the barrel, he's now useing
well Ron did it. Shit is that a laught, between you
and Curry he's picking up any rock to hid under.
I've looked for the orginal post but alas thats another that
never made it this far. Now the hub is talking ofpicking up
the fido package through the inter-net. If that happens, who
the hell knows how it will work out.
O'well.....Have a good one.
* SLMR 2.1a * If i Throw a Cat out of the car window,is it kitty litter
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Christian L O V E
|Date: 17 Dec 96 16:46:00
EID:b60c 219185c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E49
MM>RV> We were talking about world wide event, caused by christian
MM>RV> love.
MM>Might be what you meant, but this is you said:
I notice you didn't address, what i meant.
MM> RV> Is there any event, where Christian Display of love/careing
MM> RV> been recorded ? in history ? ... Other then the bible. You
MM> RV> have played in this area longer then I, But i can't think of one
MM> RV> or even know what book/area to suggest to look for it.
MM>I gave you examples of 2 Catholic men from our own time, 1 was
MM>CEO, the other of middle management. I could add another CEO,
MM>Albino Luciani also known as John Paul I. Their life and deeds
MM>(historical) are widely recorded in literature.
MM>You don't like it... tough.
MM>I guess you could also include all the Xians honored with
MM>the title 'righteous gentile' by the Jewish establishment
MM>for saving Jews during WWII.
So your showing that whatever the group, sooner or later
someone of human careing will arise above the norm.
MM>As an agnostic I don't share your hatred of religions.
I would class myself as an agnostic, prior to reading this
area. That part has change. I figure christian faith was a
silly belief and harmless, that also has change. It still
strikes me as silly but no longer do i think of it as harmless.
Now to the hateing part, I will leave the hateing to the
younger crowd, a good hateing takes more energy then i have.
MM>Each one of them has plenty of repulsive followers, and
MM>each one also genuinely good and caring people.
I agree here, no problem at all. There is good/bad in what ever
group of humans.
MM>That I am not a believer in any supernatural stuff is no
MM>secret, but that doesn't make me blind to the fact that
MM>many people feel enriched by these teachings.
And this area < Holysmoke >, has showen me how various christians
use their god and their bible, to allow them to show hate to others.
MM>I may not be able to join in myself, but I feel no
MM>hostility toward those who do - as long as they leave
MM>me to make my own choices.
Don't know about your area of life but in this area, we see the
god fearing group trying like hell, to remove various rights
of socity all the time. Banning of books in highschool is right
up at the top.
MM>RV> The Dark Side of Christian History reveals in painstaking
MM>RV> detail the tragedies, sorrows and injustices inflicted
MM>RV> upon humanity by the Christian Church.
MM>And isn't that what most 'men of power' have been doing
MM>since the mist of time, religious or not? Human nature is
MM>not gentle - and even democracy doesn't seem to change it
MM>very much. Thus I am not surprised at all.
' men of power ' with a L O V E ing god. Should be loveing
humans, careing humans. Not killers of human life, not killers
of human knowledge. Men following a loveing god and loveing bible
should be better then the general normal population.
MM>RV> Over a period of almost two millennia, the Church has
MM>RV> oppressed and brutalized millions of individuals in an
MM>RV> attempt to control and contain spirituality.
MM>And in your own small way, you seem to be have inherited
MM>that style. Spitting on and diminishing anyone expressing
MM>spiritual opinions, and with a hell-bound feeling for
MM>revenge on anybody you perceive has contradicted you.
So asking for evidence of this god they worship is spitting on them.
Find no problem at all, so all they need is some real evidence and
perhaps the spit will dry up.
As to those who disagree with what i think or say and wantting
revenge, somehow i don't buy that. In the house i was raised, if four
people, you had eight different opions. Contradication was expected and
wantted, better find another horse to ride, that one is getting lame.
* SLMR 2.1a * If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MIRACLE:PROFESSION OF JOY
|Date: 17 Dec 96 16:59:00
EID:fe48 21918760
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E4A
AS> > RM> Laurie Appleton might be a Nobel Prize winner too, but there's
no sig
AS> > RM> of it in this forum.
AS> AS> No. I may believe in miracles, but THERE I draw the line...
AS> RV> W H Y ?
AS> Because I believe in free will, and Appleton is a willfull idiot.
Not the way he can join words together. A lier maybe, but far from
an idiot. I do understand what you meant, though.
* SLMR 2.1a * In the demolition derby of life, I'm a Pinto.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Su
|Date: 17 Dec 96 17:09:00
EID:b74d 21918920
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E4B
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-16-96 (22:01)
From: SEAN MCCULLOUGH
To: DAVE HAMILTON
Subj: Rant Wars with "Commie Su
SM> > SM> 1: My apologies to anyone who may experience "collateral
insult
SM> > SM> upon reading these messages, especially "Commie Sue"'s fellow
SM> > SM> Canadians.
SM> > NOW you say so. Have you considered prefacing wide-range invectives
SM> > with warnings?
SM>I did do exactly that.
SM>This message was posted BEFORE the rants were.
SM>By several HOURS worth, in fact.
SM>My apologies if it didn't arrive that way.
Can't speak for Dave but in this location, the warning can in last
and the rant was ahead of the crowd.
* SLMR 2.1a * It's always darkest just before you step on the cat.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 17 Dec 96 17:50:00
EID:d251 21918e40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32B78E4C
CJ> AS>> It's not war when you attack another species, Ron. Or if it is,
then
CJ> RV>> So when the LGM decide they want this mud ball, and remove the
so
CJ> RV>> called higher order of animals. It's not war. Ok.
CJ> AS> Nope. Ever read War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells? One soldier said
it
CJ> AS> wasn't a war between them and the Martiains...anymore than man
wars
CJ> AS> with the ants. Ants plan, build, wage wars, but a man can trod
on an
CJ> AS> anthill and they'll have to start all over again...
CJ> What was the title of that book, again?
He's thinking of the radio program, I think.
* SLMR 2.1a * Jesus came back already ; he got disgusted and left.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:16:48
EID:0f6d 2193a200
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a309
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72111d9a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Marty:
ML>> ... "Oh, fuck!", yelled Pooh, as he found his bourbon had turned
ML>> to scotch -!- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
MG> KNown in better parts ofthe world as the Midas Touch.
Say BLESSED BE to that, brother Goldberg. And speaking of fine comestibles,
I think it's time to go give my new coffee pot it's first run. . good coffee
laced liberally with Bailey's.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Some days it all seems so feudal.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:18:35
EID:72ee 2193a240
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a326
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72112094
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Marty:
ML>> and yet I find that all the good fun, freely exchanged
ML>> information and the open opportunities to bash both fundies
ML>> scotch drinkers is far from a waste of time. Although that
MG> When did you ever bash a scotch drinker?
Jealousy.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If you ain't Moslem, you ain't Shiite.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:22:14
EID:e0ec 2193a2c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a416
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7216dc3e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Jim:
JS>> I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that a homosexual is a
JS>> person just as I am, and deserves the same respect I desire.
MG> Why would homosexuality be a sin? Just because it says so int he bible?
MG> If the answer is "yes", you need to think the matter over.
Was it here that we were discussing the fact that homosexuality is a sin,
but lesbianism isn't??
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... The Blonde Sex Manual: IN - OUT. Repeat as necessary...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:26:52
EID:7e54 2193a340
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a5c0
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b556c9b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Al:
MM> I have personal acquaintanceship with a Jewish woman from
MM> Lithuania who as a 5-year old 'went underground' when her
MM> parents were sent to a concentration camp, was 'adopted' by
MM> a gentile local women and 'baptized' Yekaterina, and thus
MM> survived. After the war she was handed back to her mother
MM> (only survivor) by the parish priest, who had gone to
MM> incredible troubles to reunite them.
MM> There ARE good people - whatever their faith may be.
Yes, there are. And they outnumber the assholes at least 5 to 1. . unfortunately,
the assholes make more noise.
As I point out to certain spouses, *I* was a Christian for the better part
of 35 years and I did not make any serious characters changes to become
a pagan. Therefore, all Christians can't be bad or he wouldn't have fallen
in love with me within mere months of my "converting". Okay, he
might have. I make AWESOME spaghetti.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I never buy books on impulse. Only on warp.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:34:17
EID:8b25 2193a440
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a703
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32b56797
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Brett:
BJ>> I actually wouldn't mind discussing this issue with you Sean (I'm a
BJ>> newcomer to this echo), but if you wouldn't mind, could we leave all
BJ>> the bravado behind? I'm here to "discuss", not to argue or fire off
BJ>> insults at others. Fair 'nuff?
DM> What you may or may not prefer, Newbie, carries little
DM> weight here. This echo _exists_ to argue and fire off
DM> insults at others, particularly at fundies unable to provide
DM> any non-Biblical evidence for their many claims. Those who
DM> volunteer to take a turn in the barrel may _ask_ others not
DM> to use the bunghole, but they had better wait for the others
DM> to agree before getting in.
Although when the fundy pickin's get slim, ya'll don't scruple tormenting
us poor, defenseless heathen .
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Aunt Em: Hate Kansas. Hate you. Took dog. -Dorothy
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Robert Burke
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:42:22
EID:ec34 2193a540
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a8ff
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Robert say to Dan:
DC> RB>> I have never seen the 10 commandments plastered anywhere in a
p
DC> RB>> building and as far as I know seperation of church and state fo
DC> RB>> it.
DC>>
DC>> As it should do to all superstitious bullshit.
RB> We should also teach our children the pain, horror, and pain of
RB> atheism.
And the shame of redundancy. BTW, WHAT IS the pain, horror, pain of atheism?
I hadn't noticed any of the atheists I know in any pain nor are they horrible.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Ok, now for a quick backuœÃá&ý%#^1sð
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Robert Burke
|Sub: ENOCHBAN.RIT
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:52:48
EID:5c5c 2193a680
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9ab67
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b6fa45
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Robert!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Robert:
GT>>> Well, I DON'T choose it, nor have I any reason to. I've got an app
GT>>> with a horn of mead and a very talented and friendly valkyrie over
i
GT>>> Do send me a postcard. Ta.
RB>> I'm not familiar with your belief or do you just play to much D&D.
RB>> If not please elabarate. I am interested.
He really can't. The CDA forbids graphic descriptions of just how friendly
we talented valkyries can be.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A victim of a prank, Geordi puts a banana over his eyes
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Gay Love
|Date: 19 Dec 96 20:54:33
EID:1be5 2193a6c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9ab9e
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b70032
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Rod:
GT>>> "Through the ages many faces have arisen and have gone,
GT>>> And the male ones all look better with a beard and mustache on."
GT>>> Isaac Bonewits, from "We Won't Shave Any Longer"
RS>> I'd agree. My husbear would too :)
GT> As do I. Isaac is one of the true wise men of our time (and a really
good
GT> person.)
So I've heard.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... We are Dalek of Borg. Davros is irrelevant.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 19 Dec 96 21:50:36
EID:85ba 2193ae40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9b9bf
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 072f0b51
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
JS>>> "theft" is defined as *UNJUST* appropriation of another's
JS>>> property, and this sort of taking would not be considered
JS>>> "theft" because not unjust. I can quote from some Catholic
JS>>> texts if that would really interest you.
GtP>> Yes, I find this interesting. . .and fair.
DW> Let me guess - your household annual income is significantly under $50,000.
Ummmm, well, no as a matter of fact. Only a little above it at this point
since Wild took a job that doesn't pay as well as the last. That job (combined
with my sewing and "real" job) brought in around 75K. But we manage to
scrape by.
GtP>> No, it makes complete sense. What doesn't make sense is
GtP>> anyone hoarding all that wealth and being unwilling to
GtP>> share.
DW> Now I know my guess was right.
Nope. Guessed wrong. HOWEVER, I come from a long line of working class
Democrats. And I did a long stint as a working mother. My sentiments
lie with the poor. (Makes for an interesting marriage, since Wild is from
the upper class and hasn't lost ALL his elitest leanings--though he has
done alot of work. You wouldn't even guess it. )
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... One who trusts can never be betrayed--only mistaken.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 19 Dec 96 21:57:55
EID:271c 2193af20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9bc9b
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 02d9301e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Glen:
GT>> to _my_ daughter.{vbeg} Thirteen years old, 6'
GT>> already, and 230# of Valkyrie; karate and
DW> Jeeeeeesssssus...
DW> I'm 6'3", and the only time I weigh 230 pounds is after an especially
heavy
DW> Christmas dinner.
I bet you don't have an hour glass figure, the top half of which includes
a C cup. Also, she has alot of muscle. She can now defeat me in arm
wrestling and mercy. . .and has defeated all the males in her class. And
I'm no slouch. I'd say I'm as strong as most of the men I know. I
imagine you wouldn't be surprised to know that she wants to wrestle for
her high school next year. . .and the coach WANTS her to, also.
DW> It's time to wean her off the twinkies, Glen.
She's never eaten twinkies. It's the pizza that does it. And she is cutting
back and, hopefully, recovering from the trauma that Mormon bitch put her
through, calling her fat and depriving her of food while she (size 24 with
a waist bigger than her hips) and her fat girls scarfed down cake and candy.
. .long story. I have a difficult time saying anything about it, since the
last time we tried to discuss she started to cry and say, "But all the beautiful
goddesses I know are fat. . .I want to be beautiful, too." How does one
respond to that?
But, we are both motivated. I told her that if we can both get down to
size 16 we will run away from home and become a mother/daughter exotic dance
team. There are few things more fulfilling to see that kind of look
of adoration in one's teenaged daughter...unless it's to hear her say, "Mom,
you are SOOO cool!)
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Do computer witches cast hexadecimals?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Su
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:19:09
EID:641c 2193b260
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9bf89
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af159301
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to Katherine:
>> Has it been established whether or not Sean
>> and BroJimmy are indeed separate people?
FR> I don't understand. Is there some problem with Sean or Sue? The message
FR> fragment you posted didn't make sense.
They are ranting at each other about something or another. Just Sean doing
his evil American pagan act again.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Count the blessings that are real...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Mormon occultism: End times
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:20:42
EID:0382 2193b280
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9c17a
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af159307
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to Quentin:
FR> And wheat grinders, storage containers, water purification chemical
kits
FR> and filters... anything that Deseret Industries can make a huge fortune
FR> out of (and do they pay their fair share of taxes on it? I doubt it)
Hmmmm, probably not. I think Deseret also makes the magick panties.
FR> Mormons are told they must buy it. I don't think it's even an option
FR> not to any more in some of their churches. The one in Indian Springs,
FR> Nevada, didn't seem to care one way or another. The one in El Toro,
FR> however, mandated that EVERY family have a one-year supply of food and
FR> water for every family member -- no family was allowed to not buy. The
FR> "reason" given was so that "when the end comes" there won't be any
FR> fighting among cultists in their church over food as everyone in their
FR> tight little cult would be set.
That mandate comes from on high--ie the PROFIT....er, Prophet. Each family
must be prepared as the church stockpile is going to used to feed the non-LDS
so as to bribe them into giving the church control of the USA. Seriously!
qf>> Do you know any details about how they believe
qf>> this mass starvation is going to come about?
FR> Every generation since Joseph Smith and Brigham Young has been believed
to
FR> be the last generation; one where the Christain god "Satan" begins to
FR> slaughter Christians by the millions. The imagry that Mormons use to
FR> whip-up the fear includes blood running down the gutters and people
FR> shooting their children if they don't "recant" their belief in the Mormon
FR> gods. Mormons are told that the reason why "everyone" hates the Mormon
FR> brand name is because they're the "right" one; the "restored church"
where
FR> their priesthood is ordained by their gods while all the others are
the
FR> "great whore" created by the "Satan" god.
Even though the rituals are AMAZINGLY like Masonic rituals. Hmmmm, now
how could that be.
FR> They sell fear like you wouldn't believe and getting cult members to
FR> buy survivalist rations is part of the motivation... David and I
FR> worked in one of their food warehouses and we also picked oranges --
FR> slave labor for no pay but required of all male children our age. The
FR> amoutn of money they derive from their food programs must truely be
FR> obscene.
What's really obscene is the food they actually give the poor. I got help
from the church, after being threatened with dis-fellowship if I didn't
get a job instead of going on AFDC for a year and getting some more education.
The food is NASTY. . .rotten produce, bottom grades of meat, etc.
FR> The Mormon brand used to publish their statements of annual revenues
FR> et that all stopped because there was just no sane, comfortable way
to
FR> explain where all the money goes. It became so obscene that they were
FR> embarrassed enough to overcome any concerns about accusations which
FR> might arise from hiding their income.
When did that happen. They were publishing their doctored reports in the
Church News when I left five years ago.
FR> While we're on it, the Mormon cult also does other things which are
FR> disgusting, motivated by greed. They tailior their beliefs toward ugly
FR> women; they appear to be specifically concerned with getting women who
feel
FR> uncomfortable in other Christian cults in social occasions. Like any
FR> social event, people always talk about people and the Mormon cult seems
to
FR> have gotten the idea that there are a lot of ugly women who would like
a
FR> Christianic church which doesn't make them feel bad.
They just want more babies.
FR> Children in their teens are repeatedly shown a Mormon video tape
FR> production that's a morality play -- only the moral of the video is,
FR> "Marry a fat ugly woman and you'll be blessed more for doing so than
FR> if you had married a thin pretty woman." The Mormon cult has _dozens_
FR> of these little videos which all carry the same message.
I missed them.
FR> One of them has a somewhat wealthy farmer or rancher who buys a wife
FR> from a poor farmer or rancher. (I shit you negative, the woman in the
FR> morality play is actually bought and sold likea carton of grapes.) The
FR> asking price for the woman was an ox and a goat. No one would buy her
FR> because she was ugly.
FR> Well, along comes the somewhat wealthy farmer or rancher and he agrees
to
FR> buy the woman but not for the asking price. He tells everyone that
he
FR> thinks she's worth a great deal more and says he'll pay six ox and six
FR> goats for her. As the whole town goes atwitter, the morality play runs
FR> through each of the ox and goats as they're delivered and the ugly woman
FR> being bought gets prettier and prettier and the man ends up with a slave
FR> that everyone else who passed her up wanted to buy.
Oh, I have vague memories of this story.
FR> The Mormon brand is just as evil as any other.
Worse.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... To establish voice contact, please yell into keyboard.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:31:03
EID:e668 2193b3e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9c3d6
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af8e6f7a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to All:
FR> The HolySmoke Central Committee is calling for the formation of a
FR> HolySmoke Convention subcommittee which will coordinate all activities
FR> and research needed to launch the first ever world-wide HolySmoke
FR> Convention! If you would like to volunteer to help plan, please let
FR> me know (Fredric Rice) either through Echo area HolySmoke, NetMail at
FR> 1:218/890.0 (818) 335-9601, or through e-mail (frice@stbbs.com or
FR> frice@linkline.com.)
I am NOT volunteering! Just thought I should make that REALLY clear.
FR> 1) Las Vegas appears to have the lowest round-trip air fares.
FR> Additionally it looks like a great many HolySmokers could
FR> easilly make the drive from many States (California, Arizona,
FR> Texas, Colorado, and Utah are all within a day's safe driving
FR> distance.)
Yes, that sounds like a good idea. We could make it there easily.
FR> The committee would need to see if Las Vegas would be
FR> acceptable and the committee would also be responsible for
FR> collecting names and locations for people who wish to attend
FR> so that others could car pool for the trip. (For instance, I
FR> would be willing to pick people up along the way even if it
FR> is several hundred miles out of the way.)
It's acceptable to me.
FR> 2) Poll for a month within which the most number of people who
FR> would wish to attend could attend then determine how many people
FR> are likely to attend.
ME! ME! I want to go. I had a dream recently that we had a get together.
I want to see if you all look the same as in my dream.
FR> 3) Collect hotel information from the area, offering a spectrum
of
FR> accomidations from the extremely cheap (such as perhaps the
FR> nightly cost of a stay at a Campground of America) to the
FR> moderately-priced. This information should be included in a
FR> HS-CONV.ZIP information package.
FR> Getting three or six of us into a single largish hotel room would
FR> also help decrease the cost of staying. Getting into a hotel
FR> which has a cheap all-you-can-eat buffet would also be a good
FR> idea. People used to sleeping on the floor should indicate that
FR> sleeping on the floor is acceptable -- provided anyone sleeps
FR> at all.
I can sleep . . .or not sleep. . .just about anywhere. And we have sleeping
bags and an air mattress, so we're good to go. Um, just one problem. Everyone
in our house sleeps naked. I don't think I own a decent (ie, intended
for sleeping) nightgown. I suppose I'll hafta to go out and buy one.
FR> In fact, the hotel management need not ever learn who's sleeping in
FR> what rooms. They need not even be told we're attending a convention
FR> -- as was mentioned, that could drive up the price of everything.
Great. We have the first non-convention EVER. Cool.
FR> 4) After determining how many people are likely to attend, find out
FR> where we can have a week-end meeting with enough space for everyone.
FR> If there are only a dozen HolySmokers who will attend, this could even
FR> be a pizza shop though I would perfer to rent a cheap meeting room in
FR> a cheap hotel. The cost for such a room would need to be factored
FR> into whether anyone's willing to pay for it which is itself determined
FR> by the number of people likely to attend. If there's a fee for the
FR> convention then we need to get firm committments and the committee
FR> would need to collect checks from everyone who will be attending.
Sounds fair.
FR> 5) Find out who is willing to shuttle people from McCarren
FR> International Airport to and from their hotels and wherever we're
FR> having the meeting, then make that list available to whoever wants it.
FR> There would probably be many arival times from individuals trickleing
FR> in yet probably only a couple of departure times when everyone leaves
FR> at around the same time. (The Airport is on the way out of the city
FR> if you're driving toward California.)
We could probably help with that. We would likely drive our mini-van.
FR> b) Solicit individuals willing to give a speech or presentation. This
FR> can be any number of people depending upon the schedule and length of
FR> time granted the individual. It could include rabid atheists who have
FR> something to say or rabid fundies who have nothing to say but want
FR> time to say it anyway. A spectrum of individuals could be solicited
FR> to offer a wide difference in opinions... a militant homosexual and
a
FR> woman- hating Promise Keeper would be welcome. (We'll want to be sure
FR> to exclude any "pro-lifers" and, in fact, the committee might want to
FR> consider whether metal detectors and security would be needed. There
FR> are a lot of nuts out there.) We could get a metafundy as well to
FR> throw random physics terms at us. He could bring his concrete pillow.
Oh, oh. . .I want to Judith dance!!
<>
Good idea. Keep us posted.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Macintosh Error Msg: "Like dude, something went wrong"
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 17 Dec 96 19:29:00
EID:6c57 21919ba0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> been contemplating from my new perspective. Perhaps you can answer
DC> Hi, Michael. Long time, no read!
Hi Dan!
MH> It seems to me that Dennett and Dawkins may be right -- God is no
MH> longer needed as an explanation for natural phenomena. Knowing that
DC> The big question is whether you are trolling or truly questioning.
:-) Any answer I give you would be taken with skepticism, no doubt. So,
I'll just say ... time will tell. (You, that is ... I already know.)
MH> "God's" activity in the OT was simply a theological interpretation
of
MH> events, of NATURAL events, that motivation evaporates.
DC> Seriously, nice to see you back again.
Well thanks. I enjoyed my time away, but it's nice to be back.
... Behaviorial Research: Pulling habits out of rats.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Dec 96 16:52:00
EID:2aab 21938680
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Sally Springett to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> I'm struck by the way science has made God smaller and
MH> smaller.
SS> Science has had no effect upon your God. If your God seems smaller
SS> to you it is caused by a change in _your_ perception.
That was my point -- if there is a God, said God has never been as
active as the ancients believed.
SS> Knowledge, on the other hand, has allowed some people to live quiet
SS> lives without recourse to the fantastic explanations for the world
SS> of a nomadic middle eastern people.
This is also my point.
Put aside your smugness, and pay attention to what I'm saying -- we're
in agreement.
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 19 Dec 96 16:53:00
EID:a41e 219386a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ>> Your demands for evidence make you just another
JJ>> fundamentalist, Stevie.
MH> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations suggest you know you
MH> have none.
GTP> Good gods, they're right. You have moderated. Welcome aboard, Mike.
No, Styx is still the moderator. :-)
... Leggo my Ego.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 19 Dec 96 16:54:00
EID:548d 219386c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ> God is the source for righteousness. God is the ultimate concern.
SQ> And the evidence for that is...what?
JJ> Your demands for evidence make you just another
JJ> fundamentalist, Stevie.
mh> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations
mh> suggest you know you have none.
FR> Greetings, Michael! Welcome back, man!
Hiya. :)
FR> The grand self-delusion of the modern spirit, that no higher
FR> powers ever existed, has seduced us into pacts with demonic forces.
FR> - Jesse Jones (Fundy pretending everyone's being controlled by his
FR> "demons" constructs - HolySmoke 09/Dec/96)
FR> As you can see, Jesse is still pretending we're being controlled by
FR> Christian gods.
I've never met a demon. You? I do know a couple of Damons, but they're
perfectly nice guys ... :-)
... Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain." People do.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Dec 96 16:55:00
EID:3e01 219386e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> And a thousand such changes over generations, would lead
AS> to something that might not be a bacteria at all. (Or a
AS> million changes.)
MH> Thanks for the opening, Al ... this is one of the major points I've
MH> been contemplating from my new perspective. Perhaps you can answer
MH> better than in IRC.
AS> Well, I hope last night (the 16th) convinced you I can answer as well
AS> in #irc...I spent half that first night I was debating with you and
AS> others trying to figure out, "What's the gag? What is Mike doing? What
AS> opening is he looking for?" I had no idea you had changed your stance
AS> vis-a-vis Christianity, until about half way through that, where I
AS> went, "Hey, he's not kidding!" Even when I sent you private msges
AS> saying I wasn't in the mood, you kept up.
Actually, I think this is a much better format for serious discussions.
You can concentrate on one point at a time. I'm sure you could have
done fine in IRC were we one-on-one, but there was simply too much
being thrown at you to be fair.
MH> I'm struck by the way science has made God smaller and smaller.
AS> Larger and larger, rather. The ancients believed in a relatively
AS> small creation, and thus the glory of God only consisted of creating
AS> the Earth, small lights in the skies called stars and planets, and a
AS> larger light called the sun and a sort of medium light called the
AS> moon. Nowadays, if we contemplate a God, He created a universe
AS> billions of light years in extent and billions of light years old.
AS> Where we are not the center of creation, where God has things as large
AS> as galaxies and megagalactic clusters He made, and as small as quarks.
OTOH, the ancients believed God was intimately and directly involved in
all aspects of existence. Today we know that is not so, and so we say
that God stands behind the whole show, but the show runs without his
intervention. "Smaller" may not be the best word. How about "farther?"
MH> It seems to me that Dennett and Dawkins may be right -- God is no
MH> longer needed as an explanation for natural phenomena. Knowing that
MH> natural science has taken God out of daily life, Christian apologists
MH> like you and me go to cosmologists to find evidence of God hidden in
MH> the structure of the universe, or to biochemists like Michael Behe to
MH> find him lurking in the cell.
AS> To be perfectly honest, Mike, I never bought Behe's arguments. But
AS> the cosmologists who incline that way have perfectly good arguments.
Yeah, they do, so far as inferring the existence of a designer (though
it remains unobvious and unprovable.) However, that's a far cry from a
personal deity who is directly involved with each of us, who spoke to
Moses on the mountain, who became flesh and dwelt among us, who judges
sin and rewards repentance. The god suggested by cosmology, absent
any other evidence, is essentially irrelevant to our daily lives.
MH> It doesn't ring true for me at the moment. As science has
MH> advanced, God has been pushed farther and farther back, and I see no
MH> reason to think that it won't continue to happen. (Indeed, I found an
MH> excellent challenge to Behe on the web just this week, suggesting
MH> that he never had a good case to begin with.)
AS> I'm not surprised. The only place I might POSSIBLY see a case of God
AS> advancing and directly interfering is in the creation of
AS> self-replicating molecules themselves, like DNA, without which
AS> evolution could not take place. But I can see many more likelier
AS> explanations.
Then what's the point? The thrust of most contemporary natural theology
that I've read boils down to: "OK, the scientists are right, but you
can have God too." If a god is in no way needed, why impose one? If the
Christian God exists and the stakes of belief are so high, why play
hide-and-seek?
AS> But if I look at the big picture, I see something very
AS> different.
But not enough to establish the Judeo-Christian deity -- only a
designer of some sort, (And some would argue even that's not needed.)
... Leggo my Ego.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: involvement
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:07:00
EID:0eb4 219388e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A58439F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> This raises larger philosophcal questions: If God is not involved in
MH> human affairs so inimately after all, why should we be so quick to
MH> buy the story of the Incarnation? The Hebrew God who shepherded his
MH> wayward people could plausibly be said to love them enough to become
MH> one of them and die in their stead. But if we understand that much of
MH> "God's" activity in the OT was simply a theological interpretation of
MH> events, of NATURAL events, that motivation evaporates.
AS> Well, that's not necessarily the case, Mike. To say that God allows
AS> natural law to shape us does not say He didn't necessarily interfere
AS> at certain times on a more individual level. If I devise a schedule
AS> for my children to do things, that doesn't mean I can't break that
AS> schedule myself when I feel the need warrants it, for instance.
That's a point, but then you're in the position of having to figure out
what's divine involvement and what's just a natural, albeit unusual,
occurence.
MH> There's more, but this is enough for one post. (I like to keep them
MH> short.) :-)
AS> And you're writing ME? Take care, Mike. Your change in opinion has
AS> not lessened in the slightest my esteem for you.
I would hope not. But as I've said, I'd have to be true to myself even
if it did.
... Hebrew: What happens when she won't make the tea.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:49:00
EID:9965 21938e20
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
RH> Isn't it rather that no evidence is acceptable? That natural
RH> explanations are always sought and, if none are found, the matter is
RH> tabled?
AS> Which is fine, unless you start to question what causes natural
AS> law...
MH> Nothing "causes" natural law. Natural law is a description of what
MH> is, not a prescription of what must be.
AS> Nyet.
Da.
AS> As Davies said in what I sent to Ron, there are many workable
AS> possible ways for self-consistent laws to be formulated. Surely it is
AS> a reasonable question to ask why it's these laws rather than another?
As reasonable as asking why you're wearing a green jacket instead of a
blue one ... and perhaps no more significant.
AS> For see if we go the other way, we are basically saying everything
AS> is amenable to reason and logic, except the natural laws and constants
AS> that underlie it. That puts those natural laws existing in the same
AS> "irrational" category as saying, "it's a miracle" or "because God did
AS> it".
Nyet.
If things are observed to behave in a consistent manner, a "law" can be
derived which describes that behavior. In no way does it impute design
or purpose to the behavior, it merely quantifies it.
AS> Indeed, why laws at all? Why isn't everything chaotic? Changing
AS> from moment to moment, laws twisting and turning, lasting a short time
AS> only to die and be replaced by another?
Because they aren't. Perhaps they could be, but they aren't. Why are
you wearing a green jacket?
AS> But if there is a Creator, who thinks reasonably, it makes
AS> REASON...reasonable. The self-consistency we see in the laws of
AS> physics are a product of the thought processes of the Creator, who
AS> also thinks in reasonable lines. The consistency we see in the natural
AS> laws are the bias of the Creator. And similarly, they are His to
AS> maintain...and if need be, to suspend, if it follows a HIGHER
AS> purpose...but will be reintroduced as soon as possible afterwards
AS> (i.e., when a miracle happens, it does not make all the fabric of
AS> nature fall apart). If there is no such mind behind it all, then
AS> there is no reason why we shouldn't reach a point where natural laws
AS> no longer hold. It hasn't been observed as yet. But it could happen
AS> tomorrow. There is no way to guarentee against it.
No, there isn't, but why do you assume there need be? Certainly the
argument that natural laws flow from the reasonable mind of God is
self-consistent ... but it is also self-consistent to assert that
invisible angels push the clouds around. So long as we grant the
assumed existence of (God, angels), we can accept the conclusion. The
premise, however, remains an assertion.
AS> The Westerner's very reliance on those natural laws being invariant
AS> is a bias that has religious roots. If there is no regularity in
AS> nature, then no one would be suprised at a miracle.
Certainly, that's true. However, the fact that Westerners were right to
believe the universe is consistent and can be studied doesn't mean they
were right about *why* that is.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: superstion
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:50:00
EID:787b 21938e40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> You're not quite following; say, if Tactitus and Seutonius agreed on
AS> a single happening in Roman history, we would most likely accept it,
AS> unless we had reason to think they were both lying...similarly we have
MH> Seutonius affirmed that Augustus Ceaser ascended into heaven. If
MH> Tacitus confirms it, we'll have to start a new religion ...
AS> Well, actually, an old one. Now, do they confirm (either of them)
AS> that they SAW Augustus ascend into Heaven? And that were other
AS> witnesses of same? Did those witnesses undergo possible death,
AS> imprisonment, and torture for affirming such?
There are no witnesses who directly testified to seeing anything to do
with Jesus, either, John's gospel being a *possible* exception. We
have later writings based on second-hand accounts *at best* claiming
that they witnessed the events.
AS> Mike, you know the drill. You used to argue it yourself. Go reread
AS> WHO MOVED THE STONE.
Yup. And if I thought it held water, I'd still be arguing it.
AS> four (even though you have tried to whittle it down to 2 and a half)
AS> accounts of Jesus' life. By what criteria do we toss out them, if we
AS> accept the other?
Legendary accretion. Myth-building. The gospels aren't claiming that
Jesus was a nice man with some wise ideas ... if that was it, there'd
probably be little argument.
MH> Do you believe Augustus ascended into heaven? Extraordinary claims
MH> need extraordinary evidence. Interally-conflicting personal
MH> testimonies aren't that impressive.
AS> Ever compared Tacitus and Seutonius, or other histories of periods
AS> where there are only a few sources? There are invariably
AS> contradictions. And we can turn it around, Mike. The extraordinary
AS> claim of Jesus being God was answered by the extraordinary evidence
of
AS> Jesus rising...and confirmed, further by the extraordinary things the
AS> disciples went through, not for their faith in God or a savior they
AS> have never seen, but for what they claimed to have witnessed
AS> themselves. If a man agrees to go through all sorts of privations
AS> and hardships for what he claims is the truth, and does it TO HIS
AS> DETRIMENT, and it is something he claimed to have witnessed
AS> himself...if he gets no gain from it...we GENERALLY agree it is true,
AS> especially if other people do the same.
Gee, that argument sounds familiar. :-) But consider, Al ... what if
the gospels really were written decades later, reflecting a developing
mythology, and the (poorly documented) sufferings and martyrdoms of the
first disciples really are legend, not fact? I see no reason that
couldn't be the case. Now, I still hold some measure of confidence in
the conclusion that John's gospel was written by the disciple, but even
so, it could well be the hero-worship of a superstitious man dimmed by
time and age.
... Men and women are not the same. There's a vas deferens between us.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: superstition two
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:51:00
EID:dbcf 21938e60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A2
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> BTW, I found something that speaks directly to the notion you and I
MH> have both propounded that the rapid rise of Jesus's resurrection and
MH> miracle traditions, within the lifetimes of eyewitnesses, makes it
MH> more credible. It's from a book called "Beyond Born Again" -- I found
MH> it on-line, posted there with the author's permission:
MH> ==BEGIN QUOTE==
MH> still it did not die away. The history of Sabbatai Sevi is more
MH> readily accessible to the modern historian than are the gospel events.
MH> Sabbatai Sevi lived much closer to our own era and much documentary
MH> evidence of various kinds survives him. Here, too, according to the
MH> apologists, legends should have waited at least a couple of
MH> generations till they reared their heads. But Gershom Scholem speaks
MH> of "the sudden and almost explosive surge of miracle stories"
MH> concerning Sabbatai Sevi within weeks or even days of his public
MH> appearances! Listen to his description:
MH> The... realm of imaginative legend... soon dominated the mental
MH> climate in Palestine [during Sevi's residence there]. The sway of
MH> imagination was strongly in evidence in the letters sent to Egypt and
MH> elsewhere and which, by the autumn of 1665 [the same year] had assumed
MH> the character of regular messianic propaganda in which fiction far
MH> outweighed the facts: [e.g.] the prophet was 'encompassed with a Fiery
MH> Cloud" and "the voice of an angel was heard from the cloud." [6]
MH> Letters from December of the same year related that Sabbatai "command
MH> a Fire to be made in a publick place, in the presence of many
MH> beholders... and entered into the fire twice or thrice, without any
MH> hurt to his garments or to a hair on his head." Other letters tell of
MH> his raising the dead. He is said to have left his prison through
MH> locked and barred doors which opened by themselves after his chains
MH> miraculously broke. He kills a group of highwaymen merely with the
MH> word of his mouth. Interestingly, the miracle stories often conformed
MH> to the patterns of contemporary saints' legends.[7] The spread of such
MH> tales recalls the statements by the synoptic evangelists that many of
MH> their miracle stories came from popular reportage (cf. Luke 1:65-66;
MH> 2:18, 38, 47; 4:14, 37; 5:15, 26; 6:17-18; 7:17, 22; 8:34-39, 47;
MH> 9:6-7, 9; 9:43; 12:1; 13:17; 18:43; 19:7, 37, 48).
MH> ==END QUOTE==
AS> All that is interesting, but not germane. Why? Because we had access
AS> to people who could DEBUNK the claims. Even his own conversion to
AS> Islam belied the claim. I know as well as any how quickly legendry
AS> accrues.
WRT Jesus, that's simply an argument from silence. The point is,
everything that happened with Jesus also happened with Sabbatai ... the
only difference is, the documentation is more available. The point
being, perhaps plenty of people in Jesus' day debunked his claims, or
claims about him, but anything they wrote has since been lost, perhaps
destroyed by the early church.
AS> The spate of Elvis sightings in supermarkets attest to that.
AS> Certainly the Apocryphal Gospels (which also date from an early
AS> time) equally attest to that, and I don't believe in THEM either.
AS> But those who spread these stories about Sabbatai...are they good
AS> friends of Sabbatai who claimed to witness the events themselves? If
As much as our records of Jesus' miracles are. Leaving John aside, what
we have are records written by one admitted non-witness and two
unknowns. If someone set out to chronicle Sabbatai 30 years later, it's
quite likely that the myth would have grown to include claims that his
close friends witnessed miracles. When the gospellers wrote of Peter or
John witnessing things, how do you know that the witnessing is not also
simply part of the legend?
AS> a casual bystander says he saw Elvis, it's no great wonder. But if
AS> Priscilla and the Colonel and Lisa Marie, who knew him intimately in
AS> life claimed to see him themselves...and further, were willing to go
AS> through imprisonment, torture or death rather than renounce their
AS> beliefs...that says something about their sincerity, surely?
But the sufferings are based only on early tradition ... no independent
confirmation.
... The more I chew on, the less I swallow.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:29:00
EID:b629 21938ba0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Fredric Rice <=-
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
Blessed be. :-)
AS> ... You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you freak.
Another variation I encountered: You shall know the truth, and the
truth shall make you odd.
... The invitation said black tie only. Why are all of you in suits?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:52:00
EID:9ad5 21938e80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Jesse Jones <=-
JJ> DC>You surely don't. You claim that you are defined by God[sic].
JJ> DC>IOW, without evidence that claimed god exists, you are an
JJ> DC>undefined entity.
JJ> DC>Now, show evidence that your god exists, Jesse.
JJ> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist.
So you would agree with Plantinga that belief in God can be "properly
basic?"
As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if God
exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether we
believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether they
guess right?
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Test
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:34:00
EID:70f0 21938c40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Ed Mills <=-
DC> On (15 Dec 96) Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> ... 667: The Guy Who Lives Across The Street From The Beast.
MG> ...668: You do the Beast and it owes you one.
EM> 666i: BMW of the Beast.
DC> ... 666tii: Turbo charged BMW of the Beast!
DC> ... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago hit song of the Beast.
DC> 666! Don't you ever stop to eat, you Beast?
333 ... the semi-Christ
... Parking reserved for witches only. Violators will be toad.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Rice
|Sub: evolving gods
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:35:00
EID:04aa 21938c60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Rice to Doug Schwandt <=-
DS> Not necessarily. Evolutionists have felt very free to
DS> unilaterally apply the standard that religion is a myth
DS> for DECADES.
DR> Since most "evolutionists" believe in at least one god
DR> (the majority of those being Christians), your assertion
DR> is not cogent. Just because they acknowledge the fact that
DR> evolution occured and occurs does not mitigate their
DR> religious beliefs. Evolution and Evolutionary Theory has
DR> nothing to say about religion, nor the existance of gods.
Actually, it does. Taken seriously, evolution does away with much of
the *need* for a god, since god-belief is intimately tied (in most
religions) with explaining how and why we came to be.
This is not necessarily a bad thing.
... Pull the other one.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:41:00
EID:e744 21938d20
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5843A7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to Steve Quarrella <=-
JJ> I am astounded that you and your fellow heathens would brag
JJ> about such incidents as giving away your last can of Vernors -- the
JJ> uniqueness of which, as a Detroit native, I readily embrace -- as
JJ> supposed proof of your altruism. Myself, I had a slow week, what with
JJ> Christmas shopping and an unusual number of work-related emergencies.
JJ> On Monday I spent two hours in a meeting with the City of Miami to
JJ> persuade them, successfully, not to divert $80,000 from a homeless
JJ> program. That evening I spent two hours at my church packing gift
JJ> bags for poor children, and another hour on Wednesday evening on the
JJ> same task. Friday night I helped host a Christmas party for children
JJ> from the migrant labor camps in South Dade County. Sunday I spent
JJ> three hours going to Homestead for a Christmas party at a small
JJ> residential facility and hospice for families with AIDS, at which I
JJ> played Santa Claus.
JJ> It was not a typical week. Usually I would have fewer social
JJ> occasions and spend more time on the business of the nonprofit
JJ> service organizations with which I serve.
Matthew 6:1-4:
Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be
seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in
heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with
trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to
be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their
reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left
hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in
secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward
you.
... The more I chew on, the less I swallow.
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 17 Dec 96 09:55:39
EID:7191 21914ee0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 096e93d6
On 14 Dec 96, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to John Brawley <=-
JB> You want a "test for God" that is both consistent with known science
JB> and consistent with my hypothesis about what It is and how It can
JB> operate?
JB> I got one for you. Just ask.
AS> I'M asking...
RH> DAMMIT, Al! Won't you EVER learn to keep your mouth SHUT!
RH>
(*grin*) Wait'll you see it. I've never posted it before.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Growing Older: 'Essence cessation sensation.'
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:48:35
EID:d66c 21934e00
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 9f406e0d
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b0ac1e
On 12 Dec 96, Dan Ceppa wrote:
MG> Another statement of the Anthropologic Principle? We need no god to
MG> exist.
JB> Not the point. We don't need the Andromeda galaxy, to exist, yet it
DC> And your point is: (?)
JB> That the "need" for a God (in order for us to exist, say,) is not
JB> directly related to the existence or lack thereof, of a God.
DC> Again, your point is [ ] ?
Made.
JB> You don't "need" your appendix, either, but it exists nonetheless.
DC> And, sometimes the unneeded appendix kills people.
Indeed. Continue comparison.... (*grin*)
JB> (MG's wording is a little ambiguous. I took him to mean, "we need no
JB> god to exist, in order for us to exist.")
DC> You don't need an appendix to exist. Someday, perhaps, there
DC> will be a procedure for a godemectomy. Hopely, soon.
Already have one. It's called "open-minded study of Science." However,
the procedure merely replaces the irrational god-organ with a rational
one.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Christianity: Music by God; Lyrics by Joshua ben-Joseph.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:51:31
EID:6542 21934e60
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 6e432fc4
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 002d370a
On 14 Dec 96, David Worrell wrote:
DW> It was a fucking *joke*, son!!!
DW> You need a vacation, John.
OK. I just don't usually think what you say to me is funny....
JB> Will you ever grant the point that a nonphysical object
....
DW> Lighten the fuck up, baitboy. Here, have a drink.
DW> You have given me the inspiration for a new origin line, though.
DW> * Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
Ambiguous. Reference is to what? to my Quantum God Hypothesis, or to
Star Trek? ( [quantum] [torpedo room], or [quantum torpedo] [room]?)
Why not just quit using my name altogether?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Imagination is more important than knowledge."--Einstein
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:55:13
EID:11b1 21934ee0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 6ccdf168
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b34963
On 14 Dec 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
JB> (??!!) "Valentine Michael Smith" is a metaphor for a "Jesus?"
AS> No, of Michael.
JB> OK. He _seemed_ to be making a Jesus-connection....
AS> He was comparing how some early (and the Jehovah's Witnesses) think
AS> Jesus was an agel, like Michael,and how Heinlein made HIS messiahlike
AS> figure, Valentine Michael Smith, also an avatar for an angel.
I've just re-read it. He makes a _clear_ suggestion that it's the
archangel Michael. (After Mike discorporates Digby, and Digby objects
to Foster, Foster mentions he hasn't seen 'Michael' around, and he's
been missing from the Solipsism games....)
AS> I have to rise to Curtis' defense on this. At the end of STRANGER,
it
AS> shows Michael returning to some sort of afterlife, and clearly
AS> imiplied he had assumed the rule of Valentine Michael Smith.
JB> Hmmm.... OK.....
AS> Heinlein does a lot of interesting things toward the end of Stranger.
No lie. Heinlein does a lot of interesting things all the way _through_
Stranger, many of which I'd forgotten. It's amazing how powerfully that
book affected me when I was young, amazing how many of Jubal Harshaw's
attitudes and wisdoms stuck with me and are here today, and amazing how
well Heinlein managed to write a book that's _more_ pertinent today than
it was in the early sixties....
One sees Heinlein _forecasting_, in Stranger, today's "consciousness-
created reality" version of Quantum Mechanics.
AS> So he's saying the angel Michael was reborn as Valentine Michael
AS> Smith, as some early Christian heretics (and I believe the Jehovah's
AS> witnesses also) believe Michael was Jesus.
JB> I can see that now.... I never would have without his comment.
AS> So something good came from it...
Yeah: I re-read it. (Seventh time in thirty years.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... WOMBAT: Waste Of Money, Bandwidth, And Time
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:01:57
EID:65c7 21935020
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a28c2010
REPLY: 1:2613/228.666@fidonet af0ec0ff
On 15 Dec 96, John Passaniti wrote:
> You want a "test for God" that is both consistent with
> known science and consistent with my hypothesis about
> what It is and how It can operate?
JP> >
> I got one for you. Just ask.
JP> Just a couple comments.
Sure.... I'm delaying the description of the 'test' until I think I can
phrase it simply, clearly, and 'tightly.'
JP> 1. Why would a "test for god" necessarily be limited to "known
JP> science?" As an atheist and an engineer, I am quite aware of the
JP> limitations of science as well as its long history. If a test for a
JP> god could be constructed that used some yet-unknown scientific
JP> principles, I would consider it.
My theology does that, but the "test for god" must not _depend_ on a
"new paradigm" that involves an unknown interpretation of physics. If
it did, it would be useless as an atheist-refuter and "simplistic
religion-modifier," since although it might _work_ for an atheist, it
would not be rationally explainable, using scientific understanding, and
hence he would not see its validity.
It's roots _have_to_be_ attached to what's "known" in science. Without
that attachment, it would have no connection to what we call "reality,"
and what we call "reality" is known only from the scientific
interpretation of what's here to construct a reality out of.
(By the way, in "known science" I definitely include quantum mechanics
and relativity.)
JP> That's because your "test for god" presumably does fit within the
JP> generalized framework of the scientific method. Does it? Can it be
Barely. You require acceptance of "statistically significant results,"
as the sciences allow. That is, while the 'test' uses nothing unknown,
it does not give a clear, unambiguous result in _one_ run. The effect
depends partially on the preponderance of positive results, over perhaps
a series of runs. (It's not like a BANG! chemical reaction, that never
goes any way but one way and hence can be used with only one example; it
is, rather, like the gathering of photon hits in an "Airy disk" or a
double-slit experiment, in which one photon hit tells you little, but
the cumulative results of many give you the clear, repeatable presence
of an interference pattern. From "known science," and violating no
scientific principles, but not a "simple quickie."
JP> falsified? Can it be tested-- directly or indirectly-- with something
JP> physical, and not just a mental logical abstraction? If not, your
JP> "test" is just a mental game to play, and not proof (or disproof) of
JP> anything.
The test will show results _external_to_the_brain_. That is, the
observations that tell the tale are NOT dependent entirely on subjective
acquisition of data. The data's in the "real world" as much as the data
supporting the "Butterfly effect" of chaos theory is.
JP> 2. Forgive me if I missed some awesome display of credentials,
JP> but should any of us care that *you* have come up with a hypothesis
"Who I am," or what "credentials" I Possess, is irrelevant.
Thinking ability is thinking ability, regardless of whether some
accredited intitution agrees or not. That is, if I propose a thing, and
YOU can test that thing, who in the world agrees that I could have
created that thing, makes no difference to the thing itself or the test
that you can repeat.
No one is required to "care" that *I* have come up with an hypothesis
that can be tested --statistically or otherwise; what I offer can be
tested by those who are interested in the Hypothesis for its own sake.
(That is, anyone who's predecided his theological stances isn't going to
be changed by my little experimental run(s). Some atheists and some
agnostics are just as dogmatic and unbending in their ego-driven
opinions, as are the most hidebound of the Fundies. I know: I used to
be one of those adamantine atheists (more properly, 'anti-theists').
(You need not clarify the terms; I offer this quickie-def:
Theist: "IS!"
Agnostic: "I don't know."
Atheist: "I don't _care_."
ANTI-Theist:"Is _NOT!_" )
JP> about what god is? Who exactly are you, and why is the fact you have
JP> a hypothesis important? Why are you any different from the countless
JP> people before you who also have had their own personal interpretations
JP> of what god is?
I see one major difference: coming to believe that there was a God did
NOT reduce my empirical-sxcientific attitude one iota. I did not go
from antitheism to theism by means of rejection of any scientific
principles. IMHO, that makes me categorically different from the
"usual" convertee, and I now hold to NO pre-existing religion.
Explaining "Who exactly" I am would of course require that you be me,
which is impossible. You have my name. I'm male, 50 years old, and I
prefer that my arguments stand on their own internal content, which
content is referenceable to experimental evidence in the sciences
(mostly quantum mechanics).
JP> But whatever... type away.
Comin'.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Worry is the interest paid on trouble before it becomes due.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:37:00
EID:429e 21936ca0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ e1a90add
SS> "God's grace" is a notion that means absolutely nothing to me.
SS> While I am not stupid in general, metaphysics put me into a
SS> coma in jig time.
JJ> So don't attempt to argue about things you know nothing about.
I don't believe I said I knew nothing about it nor was I arguing it.
That sentence clearly states that it means nothing to me. No wonder
Presbyterians are thought of as the smuggest Protestants.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:50:00
EID:a613 21937640
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 85aac5c2
SS> You should have invoked your congressperson. You had nothing
SS> to lose.
ML> I tried that, and senator; my every effort was greeted with a
ML> monumental *yawn*.
Every time I've done it it worked like a charm. I never tried it for
a tax problem though. Perhaps they get tired of losing to the IRS.
... When the going gets tough, the tough get their teddy bears.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:56:00
EID:e49a 21937f00
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 687266e6
MM> I am another one with a busted eardrum, and with perfectly
MM> good hearing. I broke one during diving 30 years ago, and the
MM> only 'bad' thing I encounter is that I have to put a finger to
MM> block that ear while I blow my nose. Otherwise the eustachian
MM> tube get mucked up for awhile.
I broke mine as a child. The only thing I can't tolerate is a
coloratura soprano at the top of her range. That gives me static.
Otherwise no problem. I can hear bats, too, but we don't have
nightjars.
---
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 19 Dec 96 16:00:00
EID:f8eb 21938000
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 5b714d0b
NC> Put tem down the garbage disposal, stick them in garbage bags
NC> and stash them in a store room to rot. Dumped in trash bags
NC> along with coffee grounds, cigarette butts and remannts of
NC> chicken dinners.
You believe everything you read, don't you? Particularly when you
don't have enough information to make a judgement.
Do you have any idea of the _size_ of a 12-week fetus? If you were
learn a bit about biology, rather than accepting as gospel the
heated fantasies of fanatic anti-choicers, you would recognize
propaganda you when you read it.
---
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Laughtrack needed ASAP . . .
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:03:41
EID:e0fe 21941860
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2ba48c00
REPLY: 1:3612/63.0 8A58C6F1
};> Victor Rojas wrote in a message to J.j. Hitt <:(
-> On Oct 30 13:51 96, Bill Forseth of 1:282/76 wrote:
->
-> BF> Being drunk on booze is not all that much different than
-> BF> being drunk on the Lord. At least with booze, though,
-> BF> there's a certain measure of dignity :)
->
-> Not only that, but if you get too much booze you can always
-> throw up. Get too much Lord and you're stuck with the fucker.
->
-> Dole is done for. Newt is next.
-> --- Msgedsq 2.2e
-> * Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
VR> Sounds like you are very resentful, and bitter, things that
VR> are coming out of your mouth are very negative. Most of
VR> your questions can dind solutions in the Bible itself. The
VR> Bible says that in part we know and in part we prophetize.
VR> Man will never figure out God, so don't spin your wheels.
VR> Don't take a chance with God, either you take
I don't know about the rest of you, but I've laughed until I
came close to hurling. Talk about not being familiar with
the territory! He DOES give good advice, though, when he
says:
VR> Man will never figure out God, so don't spin your wheels.
VR> Don't take a chance with God, either you take
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: Syr Undry BBS ):> Bendigaid };> (916) 922-9046 (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Big Daddy
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:05:28
EID:0244 219418a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2ba48c02
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b9a208
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
NC> Ok, so Greetings to you to!
Ah so, ohio Nathaniel-san.
RS> Sorry, Nathaniel, to interrupt this lovely tirade of yours,
RS> but turning what Mr. Martin said around and saying it back
RS> to him is problematical for two reasons. First, it doesn't
RS> answer any question. And secondly, it IS the first step in
RS> the Fundie Shuffle. In other words, no one here will take
RS> it seriously. Since I presume that you want to be taken
RS> seriously (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this), this
RS> is FYI.
NC> OIC, Mr Martian is not capable of handling his own
NC> discussions so he sends in the second string! Great! It
NC> makes no never mind to me....
Didn't happen, Nathaniel. Maybe Mr. Martin was correct in
that you might have a reading comprehension problem? Let me
give you a second clue: what you post, you post to a public
echo. ANYONE can respond, not just the person you're
addressing. I bet you a doughnut that Mr. Martin never
expected me to but in with a friendly bit of advice for you.
Since I see how you treat friendly advice, it's not
surprizing that you didn't get this clue earlier.
NC> And since you don't know me from Adam (excuse the pun) ,
NC> you will have to define this term you used "Fundie
NC> Shuffle"....
Actually, I DO know you FROM Adam. You're not him.
The Fundy Shuffle is a set of movements in debate that
fundamentalists usually take, that we all recognize by now.
In essence, it had become codified into a recognized set of
behaviors/steps. It is a dishonest dance, but one we see
almost daily around here, perpetuated by Xtians and Fundies
galore.
NC> If you had read my post, you would have known that I
NC> wasn't trying to give him a flat answer, I was trying in
NC> my on humble way of showing him that instead of just the
NC> two possibilities.. there was a 3rd.
I did read your post.
NC> So, why not let Mr Martian stand on his own two feet
NC> without help ok? If he needs the help I'm sure he will
NC> call you.
Because I find your rude and insulting, and the moment you
opened your mouth here to insert your foot, you became fair
game for all. If Mr. Martin wants a clean kill here and
would like me to retire, he just has to let me know, and I
will do so . . . since he DOES have proprietary rights to
first blood with you, considering your behavior up until now.
Until then, we'll dance. }:)
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: Syr Undry BBS ):> Bendigaid };> (916) 922-9046 (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Big Daddy
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:05:28
EID:0cc2 219418a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2ba48c04
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b9a208
It's your call here, Don. Apparently Nate here doesn't care
for others pointing out his dishonest movements in this
discussion. If you want to eviscerate him all by yourself,
just let me know. Otherwise, I will choose a tasty flank and
commence to chew a bit as well . . .
* Carbon-copied (from: HOLYSMOKE) by Richard Smith using
timEd 1.01 for Don Martin.
Originally to: Nate Cookson
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
NC> Ok, so Greetings to you to!
Ah so, ohio Nathaniel-san.
RS> Sorry, Nathaniel, to interrupt this lovely tirade of yours,
RS> but turning what Mr. Martin said around and saying it back
RS> to him is problematical for two reasons. First, it doesn't
RS> answer any question. And secondly, it IS the first step in
RS> the Fundie Shuffle. In other words, no one here will take
RS> it seriously. Since I presume that you want to be taken
RS> seriously (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this), this
RS> is FYI.
NC> OIC, Mr Martian is not capable of handling his own
NC> discussions so he sends in the second string! Great! It
NC> makes no never mind to me....
Didn't happen, Nathaniel. Maybe Mr. Martin was correct in
that you might have a reading comprehension problem? Let me
give you a second clue: what you post, you post to a public
echo. ANYONE can respond, not just the person you're
addressing. I bet you a doughnut that Mr. Martin never
expected me to but in with a friendly bit of advice for you.
Since I see how you treat friendly advice, it's not
surprizing that you didn't get this clue earlier.
NC> And since you don't know me from Adam (excuse the pun) ,
NC> you will have to define this term you used "Fundie
NC> Shuffle"....
Actually, I DO know you FROM Adam. You're not him.
The Fundy Shuffle is a set of movements in debate that
fundamentalists usually take, that we all recognize by now.
In essence, it had become codified into a recognized set of
behaviors/steps. It is a dishonest dance, but one we see
almost daily around here, perpetuated by Xtians and Fundies
galore.
NC> If you had read my post, you would have known that I
NC> wasn't trying to give him a flat answer, I was trying in
NC> my on humble way of showing him that instead of just the
NC> two possibilities.. there was a 3rd.
I did read your post.
NC> So, why not let Mr Martian stand on his own two feet
NC> without help ok? If he needs the help I'm sure he will
NC> call you.
Because I find your rude and insulting, and the moment you
opened your mouth here to insert your foot, you became fair
game for all. If Mr. Martin wants a clean kill here and
would like me to retire, he just has to let me know, and I
will do so . . . since he DOES have proprietary rights to
first blood with you, considering your behavior up until now.
Until then, we'll dance. }:)
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 17 Dec 96 10:20:00
EID:5549 21915280
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to David Rice <=-
>>MG> Read your original statement again. A "sodomite" is
>>MG> one who engages in anal intercourse.
>DR> I'd call that a "bugger," not a "sodomite." Oral sex
>DR> qualifies for the latter.
MG> I have an old dictionary here that defines it as
MG> "unnatural intercourse."
Talking on the phone is unnatural intercourse. That must
mean I commit sodomy every time I order a pizza....
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: Staal wants to know
|Date: 17 Dec 96 10:25:00
EID:9489 21915320
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to David Rice <=-
MG> Jimbo didn't think about it very long before he
MG> jumped on his own personal bandwagon in believing
MG> the story up to the hilt. It just shows that if
MG> you wnat to believe something badly enough, you
MG> cna do it.
You mean Marty DIDN'T sic his dog on the pizza delivery
boy!?!?! Hell. His stature in my eyes just feel two feet
(yet still miles above Komrad Staal). Why WOULDN'T he sic
his dog on the pizza delivery boy?! Athiests, after all,
for the most part do no good things. Seems like a great
way to get free pizza.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:12:00
EID:8d10 21917980
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Don Martin to David Rice <=-
>DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by
>DR> your own canard
DM> Leave his rubber duckie out of this. It is "petard" you
DM> are thinking of. And the verb is "hoist", just like with
DM> sails.
I ran a "word search" on the words "lie" and "falsehood,"
and the list included "canard," which I preferred. I have
a long list of interesting words which I use in writing.
One of my book characters is manic depressive, chosen by
agury to be the relm's champion. During a long, forced
march, the warriors sing songs of combat and valor; the
heroine asks him if he knows any love songs. He replies
that all of his love songs are threnodies.
I love that word.
A few messages ago I used my word list at Liar Wolff,
plucking out all the unusual and archaic words that mean
"liar," "stupid," and "wilfulling deceptive."
>DR> here YEARS ago, and that fact is
>DR> well known. Your pretense at denial only servers
>DR> to make you appear even more the pitiable fool.
DM> I remember writing a post to him some three years
DM> ago explaining what quoting out of context was and
DM> how, precisely, he had done it with his chunk of
DM> Carl Sagan: at the time I was willing to believe
DM> him simply ignorant. His persistant denial now
DM> makes me willing to believe he is a liar.
His invidious, verisimilitudinous, mendacious,
jactitationed denegations are blatently, unabashedly
false: very glaringly so. And yet he continues to utter
his lies, as if speaking them enough times will somehow
negate that fact. He may actually be unaware that his
continued denials of the proven fact makes him appear even
more of a fatuous hebephrenic witless blatherskite.
DM> And a disagreeable little turd, to boot.
Ah, you noticed....
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:15:00
EID:bed5 219179e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Rice <=-
>BW> I'm not a liar David the freak! Please show any
>DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by
>DR> your own canard here YEARS ago, and that fact is
==> ^^^^^^
DC> LOL! I'm more familiar with the French meaning of the
DC> word!
I came across the word in a word search specificaly geered
towards Liar Wolff. It not only applies to his lies, but
to his quacking about how he isn't really a d\u\c\k\ fundy.
DC> ... If it quacks like one and walks like one...
And is as false as a canard. :-)
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DOUG SCHWANDT
|Sub: Prayer
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:26:00
EID:cd39 21917b40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Doug Schwandt to Lynda Bustilloz
On 96/09/13 I asked you the following questions, but
you never replied. Please do so now.
>LB> How can a person be forced not to pray?
DS> Quite easily! Teachers are trained to spot such
DS> things.
Trained by whom?
And why?
DS> No, what is illegal is for the school to allow ANY
DS> prayer at ANY time of the school day.
Please quote the specific criminal codes for each
specific State where praying in schools is illegal.
Thank you in advance.
... Pious ignorance always regards intelligence as a kind of blasphemy.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ALL
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 17 Dec 96 15:32:00
EID:00bf 21917c00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
"prophesies" in the Bible. And did I hear even one word
from the bible worshipers? NOT EVEN ONE PEEP! It is almost
as if they were terrified of commenting on the fact that
their very tenuous beliefs have been uttery sundered from
under their feet.
Could they have even been so terrified as to not even read
the truth when graciously handed to them?
... Creationists: the ignorant telling scientists how science is done.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRIS GREEN
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 18 Dec 96 08:10:00
EID:b00f 21924140
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Chris Green to All <=-
CG> What do the various Christians using this echo
CG> feel about Guns in general? Is it every Christian
CG> American's inalienable Right to carry arms, and
CG> shoot his neighbour?
"Jesus" was said to have said:
LUK 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, let him
who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag,
and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy
one.
Many Christians believe this is a mandate to purchase
and keep guns.
CG> Do the Christians in this echo subscribe to Oliver
CG> Cromwell's statement, "Believe in the Lord and keep
CG> your powder dry"?
Amen.
CG> Does loving thy neighbour and enemy include shooting
CG> them?
Most of the time they used the sword and the fagot to
love their enemies with.
... Anything that can be laughed out of this world ought not to stay in
it
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Militia lunatics
|Date: 18 Dec 96 08:24:00
EID:3f33 21924300
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Fredric Rice <=-
>FR> Most often, John Trochmann, a wiry, white-haired man
>FR> in his fifties, led the meetings. Trochmann lives
>FR> near the Idaho border in Noxon (pop. 270), a town
>FR> well-suited for strategic defense. A one-lane
>FR> bridge over the Clark Fork River is the only means
>FR> of access, and a wall of mountains behind the town
>FR> makes it a natural fortress against invasion.
"I'll never be over Macho Grande."
DW> Heh... this guy has never heard of airplanes, I take
DW> it. :)
Or the Apache helicopter. Park a mortar or two on those
"mountains behind the town" and see what that does to
"defense."
"How he lived I'll never know."
"Howie lived?"
"No, Howie died."
DW> Allowing, for the moment, that Johnny boy has any
DW> significant air defenses, I doubt his "troops" are
DW> ballsy and/or smart and/or disciplined enough to give
DW> defense-suppression trained pilots much of a challenge.
They seem only ballsy enough to park bombs under child-
care centers.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Latest martinez disas
|Date: 18 Dec 96 14:03:00
EID:2517 21927060
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Curtis Johnson <=-
>CJ> With his "AIDS is not contagious, stop taking AZT"
>CJ> proclamations, he was already living in his own
>CJ> created world.
DM> Temporarily.
Terminally.
Perhaps someone without any code of ethics will consent
to inject HIV-contaminated blood into Martinez and see
if the stupid shit will accept the risk. Put his life
where his mouth is.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STEVE QUARRELLA
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 18 Dec 96 13:58:00
EID:e89c 21926f40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to David Rice <=-
>>DW> "Warning - you are standing too close to this vehicle.
>>DW> Please step back." [Or] some such rot.
>DR> ROTFL! I would urinate on the hood of any car that said
>DR> that to me.
SQ> I'd be a bit more clever with my "warning:"
SQ> "Attention: The self-destruct sequence mechanism on this
SQ> vehicle has been engaged. You have 25 seconds to leave
SQ> the blast area."
Cool! That would work. Specify a clear-zone of 100 yards.
"Mother, cancel self-destruct sequence!" ... Ripley
... Blasphemy is the bulwark of religious rejudice.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:38:00
EID:7695 21934cc0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Rice <=-
>DR> from a neo-Jewish Fundy (Messianic Jew-For-Jesus nut)
DC> I've never figured out how a Jew could possible be
DC> an xian.
They are ignorant of Jewish history.
... Creationists: the ignorant telling scientists how science is done.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 19 Dec 96 10:56:00
EID:2b39 21935700
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> I'd call that a "bugger," not a "sodomite." Oral sex
>DR> qualifies for the latter.
JS> Thanks for the affirmation.
I would never deny oral sex if I can help it.
>DR> Er, not that I speak from experience in either....
JS> I believe you...
Because I'm too ugly for a sex life?
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: KAREN DAVIS
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:02:00
EID:b69e 21935840
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Karen Davis to Jesse Jones <=-
> On (11 Dec 96) Jesse Jones wrote to Steve Quarrella...
>JJ> Go ahead, Stevie. Tell us about the good things
>JJ> you do.
KD> I'll give you a long list if you want it.
This month I gave a woman I've never met nor talked with
$200.00 as part of my employer's "Adopt A Family" charity
(single mother with three children). I realize that, for
the most part, atheists do no good things, but this woman
would never know it.
... An atheist with a Bible is a fundie's worst nightmare!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARK O'NEILL
|Sub: Long Biblical Names
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:06:00
EID:4cab 219358c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mark O'neill to All <=-
> Okay, you free-love atheist swine. It's time to
> put down your filthy bitmapped bimbos and your
> smutty newsgroups and sit up straight. Pastor
> Stephan is going to save your miserable asses
> from eternal damnation. You can buy me large
> plots of land later.
>
> [cuts--- drice]
This article was writen and copyright by Marty Leipzig,
Why was his name not on it?
... "Wait a minute. Those boots. That leather. Those legs. Xena!" -- Samon
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STEVE QUARRELLA
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:14:00
EID:219d 219359c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jesse Jones <=-
SQ> Ran into a fellow Detroiter tonight while working on
SQ> our NT system. He was in the office installing Banyan,
SQ> and we got talking about "home" and how, even though
SQ> the place is a shithole, we miss certain things like
SQ> Vernors ginger ale, Sanders candy, the Detroit Tigers,
SQ> ex-Mayor Coleman Young, and having Canada right across
SQ> the river. Anyways, we did our business, and chatted
SQ> a bit more when he went to leave. I remembered that
SQ> I had one last can of Vernors sitting in our company's
SQ> refrigerator, and the gentleman made such a point of
SQ> missing the stuff (not having had it in five years),
SQ> I knew what was going to happen to that can of
SQ> Vernors. I happily handed it over and "apologized"
SQ> that I didn't have any Sanders candy to go with it.
SQ> He walked out of the office like a kid on Christmas,
SQ> and I have to admit to being rather excited to have
SQ> made someone so happy. Shove up it your ass. Snide
SQ> remarks will be ignored.
[The following is smilie-captioned for the humor-impared]
MISTER Quarrella, you are hereby ORDERED to cease and
desist with doing any and all Good Things immediately!
As you are no doubt aware, you are not allow to, for
the most part, Do Good Things! Jesse Christ Jones said
so, and you'd better damn well believe it, buster!
This month I bought a woman and her three children, whom
I've never met, food and clothing. No doubt a fundy would
have merely "prayed for them." Atheists, for the most
part, would let her and her children go hungry and cold.
... Do YOU trust a religion that won't obey it's OWN laws?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STEVE QUARRELLA
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:26:00
EID:b41a 21935b40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Jason Harmon <=-
>JH> ... "Honest to God, Big Guy, I thought turkeys
>JH> could fly..." --- Herb Tarlick
SQ> I thought it was Les Nessman.
That's what Herb =wants= you to think....
Les Nessman reported the incident. "I can see the
helicopter. The door is opening. . . . there seems
to be something. . . something. . . they're throwing
brown things out the helicopter door. . . . they
look like. . . . look like. . . . they look like
turkeys! Turkeys are raining down on the shopping
center! Oh, the humanities! I can't. . . I can't go
on, ladies and gentlemen. . . ."
After the helicopter BOMBED the shopping center with
turkeys, Herb, Andy, and the Big Guy gather in the
office, shocked and dismayed. After a long moment of
silence, Herb said he thought turkeys could fly.
I loved that show!
... Pickup line: You're under arrest! Place your ankles behind your ears.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:36:00
EID:4f95 21936480
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to David Rice <=-
DW> I've got a friend that is a cop in Nashville. She is
DW> currently doing prostitution stings, and has some
DW> damn funny stories.
Cool! I'd love to have that job.
DW> She once told me that I would be surprised how many
DW> preachers they busted. I told her that I doubt that
DW> very much.
Why? Are many of your customers preachers? :-)
DW> The preachers apparently *always* try to tell the cops
DW> they were just out to try to save the "prostitute" -
DW> they weren't there for sex at all.
A man of god wouldn't lie, right? You betcha!
Makes me wonder how Jimmy Swaggart's harlot-"saving" is
going these days....
Around these parts, the policewoman waits until money is
handed over before she busts the p\r\e\a\c\h\e\r\ John.
I wonder how the preachers justify giving prostitutes
money if they are out to "save" them.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: giggle snot
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:58:00
EID:2e7e 21936740
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-
[cuts--- drice]
H> "It would seem to me to be tragic if, just as
H> the Parliament gets around to putting anti-
H> racist legislation in place, the whole principle
H> is undermined because it hasn't covered the new
H> technology," he said.
[cuts--- drice]
Anthony Grigor-Scott, even though he is a slimeball
Christian racist neo-Nazi Ku Klux Klan wannabe scum,
should be acknowlged to have the the right to publish
what he damn well pleases. "Anti-racist legislation"
is a vastly greater evil than the racist literature,
in that it assasinates liberty and forces such
"literature" underground where it can fester free
from open criticism and denunciation. Banning this
"literature" ensures its distribution and longivity.
In that sense, the "new technology" not being covered
by the "anti-racist legislation" is a GOOD thing, as
it still permits said "literature" to be exposed to
refutation and contempt. The single greatest act that
one can do to ensure the increased amount and wider
dissemination of "anti-racist 'literature'" is to try
to ban it with coersion and force.
If I were neo-Nazi scum like Anthony Grigor-Scott, I'd
give everything I own to have the legislature make laws
to ban my "literature." That legislation would grant
near infinite power to that "literature," making it a
puissance far greater than it actually is.
... I'm Thomas Vail's best friend. And I know where the negatives are!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Mustard Bath
|Date: 19 Dec 96 13:06:00
EID:913d 219368c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
FR> Hey! I found a place that sells 128 OZ of mustard
FR> for $1.93. The only question is, where am I going
FR> to store it all? Is there any room on your boat? }:-}
This is FANTASTIC news! I'll run out and buy some more
six-gallon jerry cans and store the mustard in the
stern compartment! I'll jettison the life-raft to make
room....
Johann said he would give to me a water-maker that is
hand-powered. It will turn a gallon of sea water into
drinking water in a few minutes.
Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person
need?!
... "Do you even know what an ad hominem attack is, dumbfuck?" Becke Jones
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Staaled on the tracks
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:01:00
EID:b09b 21937020
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>>DR> You're being silly. The author of "Isaiah" was speaking
>>DR> about that nations of Judah and Jerusalem, not the whole
>>DR> planet. He also said it would occur during the time span
>>DR> of a child's birth and when that child reached the Age
>>DR> of Accountability (i.e. 13 years).
>JS> When scripture is carefully studied,
FR> "Carefully studied" must be what his
FR> masters call [lying.]
To James, perhaps "carefully studied" very well means
"failed to read the damn thing, but instead worship it."
The authors of Isaiah (three or more people) were quite
clear, in the Bible, about the time frames they were
writing about: events that had already passed, events
that were occuring at the time, and events that would
happen very, very soon (the same generation they were
speaking of). No where in Isaiah do I find any verse
or event that was meant by the authors to be a prophesy
beyond the generation living at the time.
Fundamentalist Christians claim the authors of Isaiah
issued long-term "prophesies" because the authors of
Matthew said they were "prophesies," not because they
actually were meant as such to the authors of Isaiah.
If Fundies actually =READ= ISA 17 where it says that
a "virgin has conceived and will bare a son," they
would know that it doesn't refer to their Jesus god's
birth. This verse always reminds me of the "Peanuts
Christmas Special," where Linus is asked what the
Real True Meaning of Christmas(tm) is: he gets on a
stage and quotes the verse as if it were somehow
related to Christmas and Jesus---- it isn't.
But then, Christmas isn't related to Jesus either.
... "If homosexuality really -IS- a disease, can they call in queer?"
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: EchoBack! for sale!
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:02:00
EID:1f18 21937040
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>>FR> Cost is $1100.00 US for license and $5000.00 for
>>FR> source code.
>DR> LOL! Do you think he'll take the bait?
>FR> Didn't work. Alas. Stand by for Plan B.
You could just have baby Jesus wish him into the
cornfield.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:11:00
EID:4a95 21937160
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Dan Ceppa <=-
> ~*~ I'll be satisfied when Jesus comes again and
> takes me away from all these people who don't care.
> I expect him any day....actually. Watching for him
> on a daily basis, now. - Tenna Draper
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And
waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: eMail and Boat
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:27:00
EID:5135 21937360
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
FR> I don't know if my email is working.
Your e-mail is not working. Also, I will be retaining my
current e-mail address for another month, and have a
parallel e-mail account at another Internet Servive
Provider. I'm damn tired of my ISP being down so often.
FR> I finally drilled a drain hole from the cabin deck
FR> through the firewall to the gas-tank bilge so that
FR> I could drain the water collecting from the cabin.
I seem to recall that I damn near broke my ankle by
stepping into the cabin. :-)
FR> The bilge pump will then throw it all overboard but
FR> it's compartimentalized somewhat so the hole I
FR> drilled will only drain one compartment, leaving
FR> the rest flooded.
If you need 1/2-inch tubing, I've got 40 feet of the stuff
you may have. Staple it to the floor and route it here
and there. Your deck's supports were badly designed, since
they rest right on the hull without a devil.
FR> I took the jig saw and finally cut out the decking in
FR> the cabin floor. What a mess! I said I didn't want
FR> to look under it and I was right. It's mostly cleaned
FR> out right now but when I get a new, sharp jig saw blade,
FR> I'll remove the entire deck, finish cleaning it, then
FR> make a wooden stand to put down for a level deck
FR> again -- one that's removable so that I can bail
FR> the compartments as they flood.
There should not be any flooding. :-) If it has water that
far forward, there's a problem.
FR> Some day we're going to have to get together at my
FR> place and work on the damn thing over a week end...
FR> manufacture a water pipe, exhaust pipe, then test
FR> the water pump... et al.
At the moment every hour of daylight I have away from work
goes towards working on my boat. I'll be leaving in three
months, and I only have weekends to work on what I need to
work on to make the boat safer. At the moment I am
planning a sprit on the bow to extend the deck six or
eight inches longer, to clear a space forward of the
roller furled jib--- I need a second head stay forward of
the roller furling stay, plus I want an inner stay to fly
a storm jib close to the mast.
Since I go to work at 5:30 and leave after dark, I only
have weekends to work with. Howsodamnever, I do have the
25th, 26th, and 27th off work. I do not have any plans for
those days. Maybe I could help you work on your plumbing
problems then. Better yet, you could sketch out the type
of parts you need, and come down here next weekend and we
can go to Mimi's Ship Chandlery. I need jib sheet rail
cars, and you can find damn near everything you need.
If you have old parts that need replaces, bring them.
Mimi's has damn near everything, sail and power boats.
> ~*~ Yes, that's radiant heat. What does that have to
> do with infrared? - ARTEMIS
ROTFL! Whatever happened to her? She was the one who
insisted god was like infrared: undetectable but existing.
She was asked to put her hand under a heat lamp for awhile
to just see if it was "undetectable."
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Where is HE?
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:32:00
EID:8fe2 21937400
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to All <=-
JH> OK... now that I've got internet access, where do
JH> I go to follow the antics of Steve Winter?
Since he's been kicked out of damn near every religion-
based newsgroup, that will be tough! :-)
Go to DejaNews and search for "Steve Winter" (put it in
quotes), and you will see which newsgroups he posts in.
http://www.dejanews.com/forms/dnq.html will give you
the proper search form. If you want to read his old
articles, there will be a option button on the bottom
of the search form for "Old News."
... Believe in a loving God, infidel, or die!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Al's daffyinitions
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:2bed 21937840
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Fredric Rice <=-
>>FR> It was in SKEPTIC (or was it in here?) that
>>FR> some clown was demanding that blood could be
>>FR> affected by magnetic fields, [...]
JH> That is EXACTLY how an MRI works.
JH> Any fluid hit with a big enough change in the local
JH> magnetic field will be "influenced".
That charge has to be monsterous, since only a tiny
fraction of electrons around the atoms in the body will
have a magnetically charged particle collide with it. If
I recall at all correctly, the collision causes the
electron to jump to a higher state: when the MRI cycles
off (at millions of times a second), the electron goes
back to its original state, sending a pulse away from
the atom. It is that pulse that the MRI collects. The
stress on the MRI coils is tremendous.
I wish I had one! :-)
The messages in SKEPTIC claim that magnet fields
effect blood because of the "iron" in them.
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Absolute Liar!
|Date: 19 Dec 96 15:10:00
EID:0dce 21937940
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton <=-
LA> No wonder Clarence Darrow is reputed to have said;
LA> "It is absolute bigorty to teach only one view of
LA> origins."
But then, he never said it, and you know damn well
that he never said it (the facts refuting the lie
has been sent to you five or six times). You are
perpetuating a known lie, and you know damn well
that you are. Somehow you forgot what your paper
god told you:
JOB CHAPTER 13
4 But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all
physicians of no value. 5 O that ye would
altogether hold your peace! and it should be
your wisdom. 6 Hear now my reasoning, and
hearken to the pleadings of my lips. 7 Will ye
speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for
him? 8 Will ye accept his person? will ye
contend for God? 9 Is it good that he should
search you out? or as one man mocketh another,
do ye so mock him? 10 He will surely reprove
you, if ye do secretly accept persons. 11 Shall
not his excellency make you afraid? and his
dread fall upon you? 12 Your remembrances are
like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay.
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: David Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Fredric Rice
|Date: 20 Dec 96 10:51:52
EID:6ae9 21945660
PID: ProBoard 2.15b2 Sr
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
+0+0+0
___TheEdit v2.03
--- ProBoard v2.15b2 [Reg]
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|From: David Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Fredric Rice
|Date: 20 Dec 96 10:52:54
EID:6ae9 21945680
PID: ProBoard 2.15b2 Sr
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Fredric Rice will be away from HOLYSMOKE for a week.
--- ProBoard v2.15b2 [Reg]
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: A Man and a Cat!
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:16:00
EID:72a0 2193b200
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32ba1300
-> On 12-18-96 11:21, Shelby Sherman got back to Dan Ceppa
SS> 17 Dec 96 12:32, quoting Dan Ceppa to Laurie Appleton:
DC> No, Lardhead. I am serious. You are a liar and know nothing
DC> about what you are talking about.
SS> Redouble.
Good bidding, partner! 7 NT made, vulnerable, at $1000 a Point.
Be talking to you again real soon.
SS> ! Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
Don't forget to save one of those franchises for me!
Also, say 'Hi!' to Trenton for me. Seems I may be
visiting him soon. }:-)
... And, lo, the land was smote with a plague of insurance salemen.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:22:02
EID:ba05 2193b2c0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32ba146a
-> On 12-18-96 10:36, Lee Woofenden got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> He's now walffling on his claim of what his "theory" is.
LW> What is the theory, Dan? Can you state it?
It's a cinch you can't. You have stated that "it's true"
and have, in the very same message packet, stated that
you "don't believe it".
Make up you mind and take the plunge, Lee.
... It's a pillow, it's a pillow! - Dan Ceppa
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Al S. and rape of virgin
|Date: 19 Dec 96 22:37:04
EID:af01 2193b4a0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32ba17f0
-> On 12-18-96 18:36, Glen Todd got back to Fredric Rice
FR> be a good place for pedophiles to find work, huh? A dating service
for
FR> pedophiles; that's Christianity today.
GT> Well said, sir; well said. A shame that that's too long for a
GT> tagline.
No it's not!
... The ministry: a dating service for pedophiles.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:03:06
EID:b0e7 2193b860
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32ba1e0a
-> On 12-18-96 06:10, Jesse Jones got back to Sally Springett
SS>"God's grace" is a notion that means absolutely nothing to me.
SS>While I am not stupid in general, metaphysics put me into a coma
SS>in jig time.
JJ> So don't attempt to argue about things you know nothing about.
So, you, the Great Jesse Jones, knows even what your god thinks
and knows. Does your god know that you can second guess is
infinite mind? Is so, how does that make your god look?
Now, do provide some evidence that your god exists and show
why you can read its mind while no one else can even see
evidence that shows that the critter exists.
... I'll leave it to Glen Todd to ask you which god.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 18 Dec 96 18:05:29
EID:2797 219290a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 7450c61c
On (16 Dec 96) Alan Hess got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Not that I disagree (and will add the 1980 US Hockey Team to the list!)
but
DC> I think that the Jets won the Stupor Bowl in 1967. IIRC, it was Stupor
DC> Bowl III.
AH> It was, and the 1969 Jets, with the aid of the holy spook, beat my
AH> Baltimore Colts.
Caspar be his name....
BTW, where are the Colts located this year? It seems like
professional sports teams are like balls in a pin ball machines
with regard to fan loyalty.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 18 Dec 96 18:08:30
EID:bcff 21929100
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 8553b6c2
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b73c75
On (17 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Chris Green...
CG> Can you tell me, in straightforward terms, why it is that you need
CG> God?
AS> Because He's the simplest hypothesis which covers the greatest number
AS> of phenomena that we observe in the world. From the anthropic
Bzzzt!
Logic, using the facts and data available are making your god
hide, as it stands now, beyound the know boundaries of the
universe. It used to be he was responsible for everything.
It's getting to the point that there is nothing that he could
possibly be responsible for, except Jesse Jone's belief in him.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Wolff still missing those
|Date: 18 Dec 96 18:12:39
EID:c442 21929180
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 dde267bd
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b73c76
On (17 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Michael Hardy...
AS> I think the others are right, that you're thinking of Muriel
AS> Hemingway.
MH> Mariel, not Muriel.
AS> You're right. But at least I was close.
So was I. I think I was thinking about all those lovely
ladies that did the cigar commercials... }:-)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:24:54
EID:0df6 21929b00
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 600b32f7
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b5f74c
On (16 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
AS> And that happens too. There's a woman who's in the hospital who is,
AS> as she puts it, "ready". She's hurt about everyway she can be hurt,
That generally happens when a hip is broken and the prospect of
even walking with a walker can't be done.
AS> life. It's an enormous puzzle,
DC> Of course it is. It's making the pieces fit and not trying to
DC> make them fit with a hammer that makes it life.
AS> And sometimes to realize that no matter what elation you might get
in
AS> fitting pieces together, it MIGHT be a view of the overall picture
AS> will not be granted you.
I'll never see how the puzzle fits, Al. The fact that I've placed
even a single piece into the puzzle is more than enough. Yes,
more and the view of the entire puzzle would be great, but why
let the last peice be placed when you can always make the puzzle
even larger?
DC> Hate to say it, but there will be one day that you will not be
AS> I have; there are finanical plans, people to assume custody. But it's
AS> still nothing I like turning over to someone else.
No, you don't, but you do not have a choice. It's something that
must be done, and in a manner that holds to your wishes. Set it
up right so that you will be at peace in your death. And, BTW,
don't worry that your underware has holes in it!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Christian Adultery
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:33:08
EID:90e1 21929c20
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 dc238dc7
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32B5EBFE
On (16 Dec 96) Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa...
>> AM> of my parents. I only started attending a bible believing church
>> AM> regularly about 6 years ago for one reason. Because whether I like
i
RV> DC>I'd still like to know what the one reason was.
RV> Could be like Cathy as she work her way back into the world of reality
Not quite sure how Cathy is..
RV> drop a god. So, she drop the RC's God and pick her own. She's human
RV> now and haveing all the fun she never had.
Not having a religion tendsto do that to a person. I've had all that
I can handle over the last 4 years and I still like a good laugh.
Not sure if I could have done that 25 or 30+ years earlier.
>> AM> or not, I think that God exists. If I didn't think so, I'd prefer
>> AM> watching football games and sucking down a beer to church.
RV> > RV> From what we see here, those who profess the Christian Faith
RV> > RV> lie ... all/most of the time. No ?
RV> DC>At least to themselves and most likely to look good before the
RV> Lie to themselfs to feel good or at least better then all those
RV> heathens. Reason why Cathy left the church, she didn't want to
RV> lie to them or herself. She pulled a big step on that one. Never been
My ex "became religious" so that she could reason here way out
of leaving me. In retrospect, it's the best thing that religion
has ever done for me!
RV> answer if the person wants to be true to themselfs. In her case, she
RV> finally admitted, she allow the abuse to her, via lieing to
RV> herself, she won't allow herself to fall into that again. Her way is
Hopefully, she knows why she has lied and why she can't continue
to lie to herself.
RV> on her own path and if a problem it is her problem and no one else.
As above.
RV> since for herself, she gives those, she calls friends, her heart and
RV> soul. It was as low a blow as she can admit a human doing to someone
RV> else. Like i tell her, she will learn as her BullShit detector
RV> improves to advoid the fake humans it's not worth her time.
The hardest part of that is knowing when the person has that
has the BS dector has, themselves, turned the BS detector off
because they "like what they hear".
I think it was Mae West that said, "Flattery will get you everywhere".
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Euthanasia
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:43:20
EID:19cb 21929d60
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 b66f2147
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b6e96f
On (17 Dec 96) Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Yep, it sure does, and it was fun for my son to search for
DC> various authors and subjects for his research.
DM> I love it when they get excited being on the track of
DM> something.
Well, I was trying to handle the keybroad ...err keyboarding,
but he wanted to take over! Anyhow, the next time I go online
for a report for him, he has the Com. Not only did he tell
me what to search for, he gave me alternates to look for.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, he got at least one of the
books requested. The funniest thing is that I got my "ass
chewed" by my ex because my son went to the library to get
the book! Mich too "far to go"! 3 blocks in the opposite
direction from her place, and all in the School Zone of
the roads.
I'm not quite sure if she knows what a book is, let alone
a library.
More on that this weekend when I ask him about what he learned
from the book. :)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:51:08
EID:e9da 21929e60
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 a60d06d0
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15ad2ae8
On (17 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to David Worrell...
JJ> Ah, the ancient conundrum. Martin Luther wanted to remove the
JJ> Book of James from the canon. Myself, I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's
JJ> response: Only those who believe are obedient, and only those who
JJ> obey believe.
I do wonder if Jesse knows that he's deserving a place in
the FAQ, once again, for such a lovely quote at that.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:52:58
EID:6bd5 21929e80
MSGID: 1:105/40.667 95fbce29
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15ad2ae8
On (17 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to David Worrell...
JJ> Book of James from the canon. Myself, I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's
JJ> response: Only those who believe are obedient, and only those who
JJ> obey believe.
Do you have any idea about what you quoted, even an inkling,
as to what it makes your religion and it's "god" sound like?
Most likely not, as you placed the quote in the first place.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: COINCIDENCE FIVE
|Date: 18 Dec 96 19:50:14
EID:5c78 21929e40
MSGID: 1:105/40.762 e7f12507
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af8ee372
Staccato Vocalizations issued thus from Fredric Rice to Ed Mills on 16 Dec
96:
FR> Ed! Man, I thought they gave you ten to fifteen! What are you doing
FR> out? }:-} (Sorry; Duran Duran did it. Honest.)
em> Actually, they let me have a computer here in the hole. That's
em> not why I was incognito for awhile. Our hub lost major mail
em> feed for nigh onto a week, awhile back. If I didn't have a full
em> batch of pruno already made up, I might have jumped off the top
em> tier.
FR> I don't blame you a bit. Life without pruno is meaningless. }:-}
It was hell around here, the week that some new guys came in who
mistook the brewing receptacles for... oh, never mind.
em> Whatever became of this bright fellow? Haven't seen
em> any posts from him in many moons.
FR> I think he finally found some of those "militant homosexuals"
fr> he was constantly all aquiver over and doesn't have any more
fr> time for us guys and gals on HolySmoke.
em> Oh damn. I wanted to show him a new safe-sex trick I learned
em> here in the D-block. All you need is an empty toilet-paper core
em> and some fresh, warm liver.
FR> Yes, Ed is back. }:-}
If the conversation seriously deteriorates within the first
two paragraphs, that's a pretty safe bet, yup. :)
FR> I am reminded of the Christian church bulletin board announcement
FR> which read, "Safe Sex. All those wishing to attend come in the rear."
Heh heh.
And I am (tangentially) reminded of the three guys in the hot tub.
Something white floats to the surface, and one of the guys says:
"Hey! Who farted?"
edweird
... Is "anal-retentive" supposed to be hyphenated?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 20 Dec 96 07:42:03
EID:676a 21943d40
MSGID: 1:261/1137 940a020f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> Nope. Ever read War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells? One soldier said
it
AS>> wasn't a war between them and the Martiains...anymore than man wars
AS>> with the ants. Ants plan, build, wage wars, but a man can trod on
an
AS>> anthill and they'll have to start all over again...
CJ>> What was the title of that book, again?
AS> War of the Worlds. But did the humans ever have a chance? They pretty
AS> much had to get out of the way. It wasn't a war. It was genocide and
AS> enslavement, until they were defeated by...well, I won't give the
AS> ending away, in case somebody hasn't read it, but nothing humans did.
AS> Until then, it wasn't so much war as simple slaughter. As we could
AS> take over a chimpanzee habitat and shunt them where we wish. One
AS> doesn't talk about a "war" with chimpanzees, either.
We have here a beautiful example of Schroederization.
The original debate was over whether other species than H.
sapiens wage war. (The example mentioned by the character about
ants settles that question--other species do wage war, don't they,
Al?)
Al then shifted his contention that there is no war between
different species. (AMOF, Al, different species of ants do wage
war between each other.) He then came up with the odd notion that
armed conflict between H. sapiens and gleeps could not be called
war, and cited the above example to support his claim/definition.
Usage, of course, goes against his claim. I've read a lot
of space opera (as I'm sure Al, who should know better, has) and
organized armed conflict with gleeps has just about always been
termed war--even in those few instances where humanity quickly
lost.
If using all a nation's armed forces to try to repel an
organized invasion by an armed enemy, with deaths on both sides
[as in _The War of the Worlds_] is not a war, then what is?
The aims of ". . . genocide and enslavement" do not
disqualify a conflict from being a war, as you should know from
Book of Joshua. [Or since there allegedly was a nonhuman
intelligence also killing people, do you think these conflicts
weren't wars?]
Overwhelmingly lop-sided victories do not rule out armed
conflicts being wars. Omdurman in Sudan in the Sudan and several
clashes in South Africa still rate as battles; and the Gulf War
was, well, the Gulf War.
". . . it waso't so much war, as simple slaughter" is a
cliche for overwhelming victories. Of course, "simple slaughter"
can also be part of a war (e.g., Dresden, Hiroshima, etc.).
Al, as someone who's tried their hand at writing fiction,
I'm frankly surprised that you think a single character speaks for
the author. That soldier was not essaying a serious attempting at
defining what was or not war. Indeed, he had a powerful
motivation to avoid thinking of it as a war: if it wasn't a
"war," then he could feel less guilty about having survived his
comrades while failing the entire human race.
Whether or not Wells thought it was a war should have been
indicated by the title he gave his novel--but it seems that was a
little too subtle for you.
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1443
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: superstion
|Date: 20 Dec 96 07:42:04
EID:130b 21943d40
MSGID: 1:261/1137 940a0286
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> And who was in on it, then? Who set up the donkey? Nicodemus? Joseph
of
AS>> Arithemea? He needed SOME henchmen...
CJ>> Actually, it reads more like a forced requisition.
CJ>> "What are you doing with that donkey?"
CJ>> "It's for the Master. Want to make something of it,
CJ>> peasant?"
AS> And the peasant, who you will recall, is being addressed by other
AS> peasants, will haul off and sock the donkey-thieves...
And piss off what he thinks will be the next ruler over
him?
... I've been before the screen too long. . . I'm pixellated. . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1443
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: heat
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:20:05
EID:5b38 21944a80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 940a02fd
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JJ> Quoting CURTIS JOHNSON to JESSE JONES on 12-16-96
CJ>> JJ> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the
CJ>> JJ> denizens of this hell hole are not in any way typical of that
CJ>> JJ> small portion of atheists in this country. The writer's point
CJ>> JJ> is well taken: those participating here obviously are insecure
CJ>> JJ> about their atheism.
CJ>> As the fundies are insecure about their Christian beliefs?
JJ> Yes, I think it is analogous. Fundamentalists do, in my
JJ> opinion, tend to be insecure in their faith, just as the denizens of
JJ> this hell hole are insecure in their unbelief.
As a lawyer, surely you are aware that you just categorized
the fundies here (and yourself!) as unbelievers?
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1443
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Re: Goodbye
|Date: 18 Dec 96 03:04:36
EID:11db 21921880
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 f542c167
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt David utter:
SM>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
JH>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
DC>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
DR> GRACCHUS! GRACCHUS! REFORM HIM!
DR> GRAFTER! GRAFTER! CON HIM!
DR> GRAHAM! GRAHAM! CRACKER HIM!
GASTROPODS!!!! GASTROPODS!!! SLUG HIM!!!
... "Charred eye sockets of hot, scorched flesh...."
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: David Rice
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:23:27
EID:f321 219372e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF David = Rice THEN Damien Wellman ELSE I'll be back...
DR> Or gospel music if the car recognizes a repeat offender.
DR> Cruel and unusual punishment before the trial, but what
DR> the hell.
I prefer to think of it as instant carma, myself. [sic]
DR> door unlocked. The thief comes along, sees the keys, jumps
DR> inside, stars the car, slams the door shut, and then sits
DR> there fuming while the police come along. On the video I
DR> saw, there is a camera in the car filming the "suspect"
DR> while he is trying to steal the car. Many of them get
DR> quite upset for some reason. :-)
DR> Talk about "entrapment."
Gee, first roach motels, then burglar motels. Now we need
JW motels.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ This is no test - repeat, this is no test
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: reposting
|Date: 19 Dec 96 14:23:28
EID:8ed3 219372e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Robert = Curry THEN Damien Wellman ELSE reposting
RC> There weren't any except for the one in the addendum. Either you have
RC> a very odd sense of humor, or else there's a problem on your end.
While my sense of humor is indeed odd, it doesn't extend to illusory
^ s. Mebbie if I put some spaces in front of them the mailer of this BBS
won't have a fit...
[snippage]
Well, according to the General Wormhole Theory of Fidonet Mail,
the amount of time mail is lost is directly proportional to its
importance, as stated in the equation N ^ 2 * X, where N is the
amount of people that the mail was important to and X is the length of
time from posting to the period the message no longer becomes important.
Therefore, a message that was important to 10 people and needed to reach
the echo within 10 days would be lost for 10 ^ 2 * 10 days, or 1000 days,
or roughly 2.7 years.
[snippage]
Did *THIS* work?
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ I started out with nothing. I still have most of it left.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 18 Dec 96 22:11:44
EID:f8ed 2192b160
MSGID: 1:207/212 1fb23953
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af92b93e
On (16 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Steve Quarrella...
FR> Tell it to the subcommittee. }:-} I'll start to collect responses
FR> until we can get a committee formed. It does make sense to stay off
FR> the strip yet we all don't have to stay at the same place. For many
FR> of us only Saturday night would be needed as we would be driving
FR> Friday evening and Sunday evening.
Come up with a convenient time and I'll try to make it. I'm taking the
first 2 weeks of May off, and have the last week in June off. Then I'm
off in September for the whole month, provided I stay on the same track.
[I teach at a year round school]
... No you cannot call 911! I'm downloading my mail!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: John Jeanneault
|To: ALL CHRISTIANS
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 13 Dec 96 17:55:28
EID:f84c 218d8ee0
MSGID: 1:225/364.4@FidoNet 4b1b1ddc
Hi Fellow Christians.
This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun by no longer
posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity, or tolerance within
this message area. The goal of the message base is only to ridicule and
malign Christ and His followers. The only reason the enemies of Christ post
here, is to participate in the roasting and ridicule, not because they are
interested in any sort of dialogue or debate with Christians. They are rude,
closeminded and arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debating"
with them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction.
To continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to "cast
your pearls before swine".
Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your presence
here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this will not happen
as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule your faith as a hobby.
Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from them, and devote the time
you used to spend composing messages to them, to praying for them. You have
been one of the most tolerant and "persistent" Christians in here, but you
are not given the least bit of credence by HolySmokers.
ALL CHRISTIANS UNITE....no longer post here...let the word be spread through
all the echoes...to all brothers and sisters...that henceforth Christians
will no longer post to HOLYSMOKE....and by doing so we will bring about
the demise of the beast that is devoted to bringing about the downfall of
the followers of Jesus...if such a thing were possible:-). After weeks or
months of complaining to each other, without any individuals to ridicule,
they will eventually go the way of the DoDo. What say all, can we do it....I
think we can if we spread the word through whatever means is available.
What a challenge! Can we topple the "Great Holysmoke" by this time next
year. Really think about it. WE CAN DO IT! Let the only messages we post
here promote this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or
his teachings....their hearts have been hardened, and their eyes have been
blinded. To continue to post "Jesus" is to "cast your pearls before the
swine"...."shake the dust off your sandals and move on!"
There are many other message areas where one can spread the word, where
one is at least tolerated without such ridicule and contempt as is displayed
here. The only reason nonbelievers post here is to take part in the "stoning"
of believers. Let us all...of all denominations and none...from the Catholics...to
the pentecostals...the Baptists...the Anglicans..the Steve Winters...the
Latter Day Saints...the Mormans...all who I have failed to mention...let
us all cease and desist from posting here, except to spread the same message....Christians...of
all stripes...people of all denominations and religions....get out! Do not
post here any longer...do not become a whipping boy/girl for these anti-god
people!
After years of reading and posting here....I have come to the conclusion
that there is nothing resembling openmindeness, fairness or tolerance here,
from those who regularly attack religion. They are unbending, unyielding
and unobjective, with no real interest in the concept of God, and are only
concerned with baiting believers and doing their best to make fools of them
all.
LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY LONGER...EXCEPT TO SPREAD
THIS MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE...LET US SPEND
OUR TIME POSTING TO OTHER MESSAGE AREAS WHERE THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN
AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH TO HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET
US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY, LET US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE
ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND HEARTS TO FEEL!
Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with them..he
only posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook! Let us all do
the same....let us either get out of here altogether...or let us all barrage
them with scripture....with no response to the slap on the cheek, except
that of quoting more scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
HAAAAA!!!!!VICTORY IN JESUS!!!!!!!.......john!
--- April V0.994PBeta
* Origin: EYE OF THE STORM (1:225/364.4)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Malachi 3:1 / Matthew 24:1-2
|Date: 13 Dec 96 02:23:00
EID:60a3 218d12e0
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah will enter the temple.
And the Lord whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple.
FULFILLMENT:
1) Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples
come to Him to show Him the building of the temple.
2) And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all trese things? Assuredly,
I say to you, not one stone shall be here upon another, that shall be
left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
All Jews of Jesus' days entered the outer courts of the Temple, but this
prophecy clearly indicates that Messish would come when the Temple exited.
The Temple at Jerusalen was destroyed in A.D. 70, so no would-be Messiah
has able to fulfill this prophecy since that date.
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Zecharian 9:9 / Matthew 21:1-7 NKJV
|Date: 13 Dec 96 09:15:00
EID:33d5 218d49e0
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messish would enter Jerusalem on a donkey.
Rejoice greatly, O daugher of Zion! Shout, O daugher of Jerusalen!
Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation,
lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey.
FULFILLMENT:
1) Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage, at the
Mount of olives, then Jesus sent two disciples,
2) Saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately
you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring
them to Me.
3) And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say, "The Lord has need
of them, and immediately he will send them."
4) All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the
prophet, saying:
5) "Tell the daughter of Zion, 'Behold your King is coming to you, lowly,
and sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey."
6) So the disciple went and did as Jesus commanded them.
7) They brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clother on them, and
set
Him on them.
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Psalm 118:22 / 1 Peter 2:6-8 NKJV
|Date: 14 Dec 96 14:32:00
EID:82ae 218e7400
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be a "stone of stumbling" to the Jews.
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
FULFILLMENT:
6) Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in
Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him
will by no means be put to shame."
7) Therefore to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are
disobediet, "The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief
cornerstone."
8) And "a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense." They stumble being
disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Psalm 42:6-7 / Matthew 4:16 NKJV
|Date: 15 Dec 96 02:43:00
EID:260a 218f1560
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be a light to the Gentile
6) I, the Lord have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your
hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, as a
light to the Gentiles,
7) To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from the prison, those who
sit in darkness from the prison house.
FULFILLMENT: The people who sat in darkness saw a great light, and upon
those who sat sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned.
A light [Jesus, the Messiah] to bring revelation to the Gentiles, and the
glory of Your people Israel. (Luke 2:32)
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Psalm 41:9 / John 13:18
|Date: 19 Dec 96 05:42:00
EID:d72e 21932d40
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messial will be betrayed by a friend.
"Even by close friend, in whom I trust, who are my bread, has lifted
up his heel against me."
FULFILLMENT: I [Jesus] do not speak concerning all of you. I know who I
have chosen: buy that Scripture may be fulfilled, "He who eats bread with
Me has lifted up his heel against Me."
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Zecharah 11:12 / Matthew 26:14-16
|Date: 20 Dec 96 05:54:00
EID:2f2b 21942ec0
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be betraped for thirty pieces of silver.
And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me me wages; but
it not, never mind! So they weighed out thirty shekels as my wages ."
FULFILLMEAT: "Then one of the twelve, called Judas Islcariot,
went the the chief priests and said, "What are you willing to give me if
I
deliver Him [Jesus] to you? And they counted out to him thirty pieces of
of silver. So from that times he sought opportunity to betrap His."
Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:33:27
EID:d9b3 21944c20
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2baa7360
REPLY: 1:229/622 32b72f7c
Hello Dave!
Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Sean McCullough:
DH> Any Canadian without a violent criminal record that wants to
DH> own a firearm can own one, contrary to popular myths. We can
DH> own rifles by obtaining a permit that requires the applicant
DH> to answer a few safety questions. We can own handguns if we
DH> have any reason to do so, including a simple hobby interest
DH> in shooting, though we need to apply for permits to do so.
DH> I don't think it is simply population pressure, nor does any
DH> sociology text I have ever read.
Interesting what you write about Canadian gun control. Sounds
exactly similar to what we have here in South Africa - you
simply need a clean criminal record and a permit to purchase
a gun. Our main problem is that the criminal element has a
free and easy access to all kinds of lethal weapons, smuggled
across the borders by present and former 'freedom fighters'
from neighboring countries, and sold for song (as low as $10).
Thus gun control has become meaningless. It is only possible
to control 'the good guys' with the permits, while all the
baddies can go on and play havoc. Unfortunately armed robberies
are as common as dirt.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:54:26
EID:176f 21944ec0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2baa7361
REPLY: 1:261/1137 931001a6
Hello Curtis!
Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Nate Cookson:
CJ> On 18 Dec 96 04:07pm, NATE COOKSON wrote to DON MARTIN:
NC> The media has really played up the Jeffrey Dalmer cut up his
NC> victims, and washed the flesh down the drain...
NC>
NC> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead
NC> fetuses:
CJ> So what's the point? How would hospitals and
CJ> clinics dispose of the tissue they'd remove from you or me?
I must add my voice to yours... what's the point?
If patients REALLY wanted it I assume it would not be impossible
to be issued a packet of 'the remains' upon discharge from the
hospital.
Waste disposal has never been a delicious subject. Hospital
'waste' most people don't even want to think about (amputated
tissue in whatever form). Disposal of the dead is not delicious
either, but Nate doesn't seem to get nauseated by thinking of
cremations (over-roasting of human beings), burials (letting
human beings rot in boxes underground), or sea funerals
(letting human beings be eaten my marine critters).
The 'sanitary engineers' do the best they can, and save the
rest of us from being involved with the more disgusting
aspects of decaying material.
CJ> When was it ever a custom to give full-fledged
CJ> funerals for 3-4 month miscarriages?
and if we have to be realistic.... If funerals of the unborn
had to be fully implemented, all women would have to give
each and every mentrual pad 'a decent funeral'. Who knows
how many expelled fetuses would be laying dead and unmourned
right there on the pad.
This Nate character is an unthinking weirdo. Life, and
especially death, is not such a sugarcoated happening as he
would like to believe.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: False Christian Scum [2/2]
|Date: 20 Dec 96 11:20:17
EID:3f6a 21945a80
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2baa7362
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org b095e018
Hello Sean!
Sean McCullough wrote in a message to Sue Armstrong:
SM> It's time that the freedom to breed, the only freedom left
SM> which has never been truncated, be the freedom to be
SM> truncated for once.
Think about Mainland China, where breeding has been/is curtailed!
Visiting China in 1990 it was obvious to me that children were
far scarcer as 'part of the public picture' than in any other
country I have ever visited.
It IS starting to be realized in places where population
density has become intolerable.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:15:00
EID:7183 219419e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0f21aab6
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
DW>> Isn't it interesting that Jim preens over his "opulent
DW>> estate" while claiming to follow a man who commanded his
DW>> followers to sell all they had and give the proceeds to the
DW>> poor?
ML> In Jimbo's defense, is there really much of a market for a
ML> trashed doublewide and a yard-full of non-working
ML> appliances?
I see you've never visited Mississippi, Arkansas, or West Virginia. :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 20 Dec 96 01:42:00
EID:bb49 21940d40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ecc8904
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32b8d76c
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
SH>> Now stop jumping to conclusions before we start to
SH>> laugh at you.
DW>> We? Do you have a mouse in your pocket, little man?
You forgot to answer this question.
DW>> Why do I need to be saved?
SH> Same reason as you need anything else...
Why do you need to dodge direct questions?
Why do I need to be saved?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 20 Dec 96 01:43:00
EID:0b94 21940d60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ecdc423
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32b8d76d
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
DW>>> Why don't you stop doing the fundy shuffle and answer
DW>>> Shelby's question?
SH>> Why don't you stop doing the false squelch and admit
SH>> that I did?
DW>> I must have missed it. Please repeat it for me. Why do
DW>> I need to be saved?
SH> You tell me....
You claimed to have answered the question. I asked you (I even said "please")
to repeat your answer since I must have missed it. You immediately went
into the fundy shuffle again.
You're obviously lying. Isn't lying a sin?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Your soul....b
|Date: 20 Dec 96 01:45:00
EID:d941 21940da0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ecee2c5
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32b8822e
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
SA> "Sean. A two-legged rat. Can't even use 'im for hunting
SA> practice. Passing laws to protect him is like passing laws
SA> to protect cockroaches."
You're pretty entertaining, for a Communist. :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 20 Dec 96 01:51:00
EID:5412 21940e60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ed50dbd
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b83937
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
GT>>> to _my_ daughter.{vbeg} Thirteen years old, 6'
GT>>> already, and 230# of Valkyrie; karate and
DW>> I'm 6'3", and the only time I weigh 230 pounds is after
DW>> an especially heavy Christmas dinner.
DW>> It's time to wean her off the twinkies, Glen.
GT> It's not Twinkies, believe me. (One nice thing about
GT> living far enough from town that she can't get to a junk
GT> food store without an adult driving her.) She's broader
GT> through the shoulders than I am and very heavy boned.
"Heavy boned," my ass. Brigitte Neilsen is "heavy boned." Your daughter
has obviously taken to buying Twinkies on the black market.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: feed
|Date: 20 Dec 96 01:53:00
EID:2d01 21940ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ed633c6
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b988a80
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
On , you wrote me:
MM> Thanks for straightening me out :-)
You'll be receiving my bill shortly.
MM> (I guess it is always a good idea to READ what the man
MM> actually wrote... he did after all specify BW packets).
MM> ... Greetings from Mimi [blockhead]
Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:27:00
EID:0e94 21941360
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ef57b3a
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72374f85
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Drew Barrymore you wrote:
DB>> Why do I need to be saved?
MG> Show us your tits.
She doesn't have any.
(Yeah, Fred, I'm saying bad things about your dream woman... whatcha gonna
do 'bout it?)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Holy Hatred: Religious Conflicts of the 1990s, James A. Haught
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:30:00
EID:9e8e 219413c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ef82023
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af963a99
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to All you wrote:
FR> to develope constructive answers to the conflicts of
...............^
You wrote this, didn't you? :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:31:00
EID:b9e1 219413e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0ef9ca92
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b854223
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Marilyn Burge you wrote:
MM> good hearing. I broke one during diving 30 years ago, and
MM> the only 'bad' thing I encounter is that I have to put a
MM> finger to block that ear while I blow my nose.
Sorry, but that's a hilarious image. :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christians being "persecuted"
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:56:00
EID:2a3e 21941700
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0f1011c2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a684
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Don Martin you wrote:
FR> My guess is this fundie has never been in a war or even
FR> understands the value of refined paper products or how they
FR> benefit people's lives.
You don't even have to be in a war to understand that.
I got to be friends with an exchange student originally from North Korea
when I was in Knoxville. He told me that the way Americans take paper for
granted still amazed him. At home, he and everyone he knew had never heard
of margins. They filled paper edge to edge, top to bottom, front and back.
This was not do to any cultural preferences - paper was simply too expensive
to waste with niceties like margins.
Sue can babble on about the superiority of North Korea all she wants, but
a modern society that cannot afford notebook paper is not a society that
needs to be used as a role model.
Fundies entering a society like that and being amazed at how quickly people
accept their tracts are like slightly retarded aliens coming down and being
amazed at how quickly people accept $5 bills. Except, of course, for the
fact that slightly retarded aliens would look like geniuses compared to
fundies. As would slightly retarded houseplants.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:20:00
EID:07ae 21941a80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0f25f931
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a688
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Dan Ceppa you wrote:
FR> ~*~ The milieu here is like a gang rape by a bunch of
FR> maladjusted teenaged boys whose hormones have gone mad. -
FR> Jesse C. Jones (Heathens)
And he keeps coming back for more.
"ohh... ohh.. that feels *sooo* good... harder!"
He probably has to wear diapers by this point.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: truth
|Date: 20 Dec 96 03:04:00
EID:c6b2 21941880
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0f17d568
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b84085
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Jesse Jones, Glen Todd wrote:
GT> No, it will show that political expediency disguised as
GT> piousness has a firm root in this government's traditions.
GT> In any event, it also shows that it _IS_ a direct and
GT> blatant violation of the Constitution and a 'celebration' of
GT> a crime against ethics and honour that True Folk would do
GT> well to shun.
First the Christians give us "True Christians/False Christian Scum."
Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
What's next?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Test
|Date: 20 Dec 96 07:18:13
EID:e1ce 21943a40
MSGID: 1:123/67 32ba3dd0
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
You should be on board now. Welcome to the franchise.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 05 Dec 96 11:57:24
EID:e8de 21855f20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b88b
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 3287c889
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Don and Andrew were killing time yakking about A Serious Question:
DM> David Worrell said "A Serious Question" to Andrew Masten,
DM> adding:
DW> Thursday October 24 1996 05:16, Andrew Masten wrote to Don Martin:
AM> The real issue here Don, is you hate me
DW> Don't flatter yourself, little man - you're not worth out hatred. The
DW> best you can do is a half-hearted contempt.
DM> I missed this one. It suggests a line from Thomas
DM> Heggan's _Mr. Roberts_: "In hatred there is something of
DM> fear and something of respect; the Captain was neither
DM> feared nor respected. One could say he was actively
DM> loathed."
DM> I _hate_ neither Andrew nor dogshit on my shoe.
AM> David didn't bother to paste the rest of the paragragh or even
AM> the rest of the sentence. Which was that you hate me because of my
AM> belief in God. Not on a personel level.
How can one hate on an IMpersonal level? Pretty neat trick....who do you,
impersonally speaking, hate?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Omnipresence: an infinity of places in which to hide." Don Martin
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 05 Dec 96 11:57:24
EID:03c7 21855f20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b88c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Roger were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
RH> Describes Heaven too, you know. How long can you worship at the
RH> throne before terminal boredom sets in?
AS> Depends on whether you have an Infinite mind thinking up diversions
AS> for one, and has omnipotence to make it, doesn't it?
RH> And your scriptural basis for that is?
RH> I thought not.
RH> Debunked!
Who cares...it's bizarre all it's own. An Infinite mind thinking up diversions
for one? God as Cosmic Cruise Director? And if he's thinking up all my
diversions....isn't that going to play hell with the pesky free-will again?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Immortality consists largely of boredom.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Spam me big boy!
|Date: 05 Dec 96 11:57:24
EID:bc64 21855f20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b88d
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c55cae6a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Don and Katherine were killing time yakking about Spam me big boy!:
DM> At the awful risk of receiving the dreaded "feminazi" label from
DM>this little slime, I agree with you and Lynda.
KW> Why should you dread it? A woman gets called a
KW> 'feminazi' when she had the strength and character to stand up for
KW> herself against little slimy limpdicks like Ken. I would think that
(G) Like standing up to the likes of Weins is any great task...
KW> being publicly identified as a man of strength and character would
KW> befit you.
Yes, but in Don's case, he'd then have to be known as a BALD-HEADED FEMINAZI!
That could be unbearable!!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Being Normal Isn't One Of My Strengths!
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 03 Dec 96 12:53:42
EID:1b1a 218366a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b88e
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32a0da92
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and Doug were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
DL> I seem to be having some problems getting onto IRC.
DL> I understand that #holysmoke has been moved to neto.ca.us.another.net
DL> What would be the the port to use?
make that neato rather than neto and 6667 will work.
DL> Eveytime I try to connect I get
DL> Ping987 or Ping23897 or any other type of variation.
DL> Suggestions?
yup. if that happens, type /pong 23897 (or whatever the number is) and
you'll get right in.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... HolySmoke, home of information you can use at work and play! Don Martin
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 03 Dec 96 13:32:27
EID:ba75 21836c00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b88f
REPLY: 1:261/1137 7b0a02d0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Curtis were killing time yakking about oh hell:
AS>> Hmmm. I never considered ethics a matter of intelligence.
HP>> Ethics is a matter of reason and empathy, Al. Pay attention.
AS> Then the gentle goose, who never wages war, is less ethical than the
AS> more brillant, more empathic (at least able to imagine the pain
AS> better) man, who does?
CJ> Uh, Al, the personal ethics of geese are rather less than
CJ> you imagine . . .
Uh, this would be gentle goose, as in gentle smile, right?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs!" - A French person
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Apocalypse Now
|Date: 04 Dec 96 12:35:49
EID:e5a3 21846460
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32a6b890
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8a351a81
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dan and Katherine were killing time yakking about Apocalypse Now:
DC> RS> Special Harpy effects supplied by
DC> RS> Bandsma, Bustilloz, and Wintersnight, Unltd.
DC> KW> ROTFLMAOSTC,TN,ATWMITC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DC> KW> Richard, you're a baaaaad boy!
DC>Yes, but that is only a post, though it may be part of the FAQ.
DC>In the interim:
DC>... Special Harpy effects supplied by Bandsma, Bustilloz, Withersnight
LTD
KW> You infected my name with Glodbredsim.
Perhaps "wither" is what he figured those harpy effects create ...
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Among economists, the real world is often a special case.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Darkness
|Date: 05 Dec 96 21:52:08
EID:c09c 2185ae80
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32af04a0
REPLY: 1:3603/210 003311a0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Robert and ROBERT were killing time yakking about Darkness:
RB> There is great debate within the church on whether
RB> to forcefully teach the doctrine of eternal damnation.
RC>
RC> How much more irrelevent to real life can you get than that?
RC>
RC> No wonder there are so many people who think church is a complete
RC> waste of their time!
(raising an eyebrow) Forcefully...?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "I am Bart of Borg. Eating is irrelevant...Shorts are irrelevant. Ok?"
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: U don't push a women
|Date: 07 Dec 96 14:57:20
EID:ae28 21877720
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32af04a1
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32a2cf80
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Rod were killing time yakking about U don't push a women:
AS> What is your wife interested in? My wife has a soap opera web page
that
AS> has gotten over 9000 hits. (Partly because she has soap opera spoilers
AS> for her favorite soap opera a week or two in advance of the events,
but
AS> it's an excellent page in its own right.)
RS> Sounds tres cool! I have a same-sex civil marriage rights
RS> website :) It also sorely needs updating, which will happen THIS
RS> week :)
You say this, and decline to give the URL? For shame!
:) Where would I locate this site?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ "What is your favorite color?" "Blue - no - yel"
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 09 Dec 96 08:14:25
EID:2d3f 218941c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32af04a2
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A4C2C5F
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
CH> The famous line around here is "prove it".
Oh? Do you have any evidence of that?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Dentist's famous last words: "You won't feel a thing..."
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Can't do constants
|Date: 11 Dec 96 19:15:38
EID:565c 218b99e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b09f9e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32ae3c9c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Curtis and Al were killing time yakking about Can't do constants:
CJ> Second goddamn message from you in this packet I get
CJ> the "Text too large to Edit Error." I do have a work-around--but
CJ> as I explained in the first message, it takes me about an hour to
CJ> do it, which among other things involves manually reformatting
CJ> 15 screens into readability.
AS> Curtis.
AS> Give me your address, I will send you a diskette with Qedit on it.
AS> No charge for the diskette. Be happy to do it.
AS> But you are under no obligation to post to me. We discuss weighty
AS> subjects, and you yourself often post screenfulls of my own
AS> statements, which I can certainly remember, without you bothering to
AS> repost it. You even often repost parts that you do NOT respond to,
AS> including, unaccountably, my own taglines. That's your privilege.
AS> The only time I have had Qedit "choke" on me is with exrtremely long
AS> internet documents, and even then, I can usually edit it down to
AS> manageable lengths with little problem.
AS> I enjoy posting to you, but if it's a problem, abandon it. But the
AS> offer still stands. If for some reason you cannot pull Qedit off a
AS> local BBS, I would be happy to send it to you.
AS> BTW, no other mail, of any sort (tracts, whatever) will be sent.
Al...standard BBS etiquette is to keep your posts to 95 lines or less. Instead
of insisting everyone use a reader that can deal with your posts, why not
just
keep yours set to break up at 95 lines, so that they can be dealt with WHATEVER
reader a person is using? It's not always a matter of the READER not handling
the longwinded posts, but the BBS software itself.
Choosing not to take 3 minutes to adjust your own reader is, of course YOUR
privilege, but it's both more polite AND faster than typing out a message
like the above getting snooty about people getting frustrated over the
frequency with which your messages are unreadable.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... A mind is a terrible thing to... oooooooooh, Mail Packets!
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 11 Dec 96 19:31:53
EID:4648 218b9be0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b09f9f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32ae3caf
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Roger and Al were killing time yakking about NEVER BE GODLY:
AS> On the contrary, I think He is an excellent teacher. For the best
AS> teacher allows the student to make the discoveries for themselves,
AS> gives them guidance without stifling them.
RH> That only makes sense under reincarnation. One life, the Hell is
RH> not good teaching practice.
AS> But reincarnation doesn't work unless you can remember previous
AS> lessons....or lives, in this case.
Why? I don't recall learning how to walk or talk, or how to control my bladder
...yet the lesson stays with me.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Guidance: See under Advice. Advice: See under Guidance.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Good grief.
|Date: 12 Dec 96 12:07:01
EID:6f3e 218c60e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b09fa0
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32adf7a4
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Dan were killing time yakking about Good grief.:
DC> Also, it's possible to use the Internet to access at least
DC> 2 BBS's in the country that will allow you to transfer Fido
DC> via the I-net.
Could you pass on any info you have on those?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... 14th Rule of Creationism: Change the subject whenever possible.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Lupus
|Date: 13 Dec 96 00:20:11
EID:e54e 218d0280
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b42b6c
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32a8eb2e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Mimi and Rod were killing time yakking about Lupus:
MM> LB> Anyway, here's the shortish answer, from the Lupus Foundation:
MM> Thanks a lot for the info you posted. I realize I was even more
MM> out of date than I imagined :-)
MM> All my sympathy to you and other Lupus sufferers - terrible thing
MM> to be saddled with.
RS> Yes, and from me. My partner's friend, Laura, recently was
RS> diagnosed with systemic lupus...
RS> ... she was going to college, but her parents pulled her funding
RS> source because "she may not live past college very long, so why
RS> waste the money..."
RS> *sigh*
You've gotta be kidding.
Except I don't think you are.
Please tell your friend to contact the Lupus Foundation, or her doctor to
see
about support groups that will offer her REAL information, and an ear when
she
needs to voice her frustrations.
I've got to assume her parents are miserable sons-a-bitches to be that cold,
but on the off chance that it was unintentional to make her feel like she
was
already dead, I've been diagnosed with systemic lupus for 9 years now. The
first couple of years were bad...not much indication that there would ever
be any improvement. But lupus is wierd...it DOES have remissions, and for
some of us those remissions last for years. I've been out of remission for
the past year or so, but the symptoms are much lighter than they were
(possibly due to my own increased knowledge of what I should be doing).
Her mileage may vary...in fact, it WILL. But this is not a death sentence.
And with parents like that, she's going to need outside support.
Oh yea...and I'm starting back to school this coming fall. And intend to
live LOOOONG after I graduate.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... 12:00 pm in a bright college room: "It was a stark and dormy night..."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:07:09
EID:a387 218f88e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b947de
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b22cf0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Dan and Al were killing time yakking about FREE WILL:
DC> Wrong, Al. I was describing the world where the ultimate
DC> parent, "god", doesn't care if the little girl is raped.
DC> ... Would you punish your kids for eternity?
AS> Um. Dan, what is the fate of the rapist in most cases in the
AS> worldview of a Christian...the eventual, eternal fate?
AS> You refer to it above, in your tagline.
AS> So...at least in the Christian worldview...He does CARE. As for why
Al, unless the VICTIM is going to be damaged by the experience for eternity
(and there's a question for you - will i and all the others still have
nightmares in heaven?) there is no purpose to the victimizer being punished
for all eternity. Hell later, and nothing DURING the victimization does
no
good. The abuse affects MY choices, presumably affects MY "salvation".
God
getting around to dealing with it after in no longer matters is pointless.
AS> from above, even when we impose our will on another. For humanity
AS> collectively must learn how to handle free will, and correct
AS> ourselves, as much as an individual must. If it doesn't satisfy
AS> you--and there are times, I'm sure, when it wouldn't satisfy me, say
AS> when I was riding the train to Auchswitz--then it doesn't. But it
AS> works for me.
Of course...it works if you're telling it to someone else...that it does
NOT
work for those living within the context of Cepp'as question ought to tell
you
something.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ A thick head can do as much damage as a hard heart.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 17 Dec 96 00:35:38
EID:ae93 21910460
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b947df
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b49db0
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Curtis and Al were killing time yakking about more babbling email:
CJ> So I am not responding, except in consolidation, to this
CJ> one post. Much as I know you'd like a conscious/subconscious
CJ> replay of the "Harpies" fiasco [a fiasco on your part, IMHO]
CJ> I am not granting it to you.
AS> Curtis, the quickest way is to just drop it.
ROTFL!!!!!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ I'd love to, but my subconscious says no.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 19 Dec 96 07:51:02
EID:908a 21933e60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b947e0
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b6e96e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David and Don were killing time yakking about Warring Christanic Factions:
DW> Hardy seems to have become an agnostic. Let's hope he hasn't been
DW> taking lessons from Billy.
DW> I'll try emailing the log to your internet address.
DM> Is this the same Hardy? Did the old one post from
DM> Alabama? (I thought he was in Texas). The prose style is
DM> rather better than I remember, too, but then I have not paid
DM> much attention to him for some years now, so I may be
DM> mistaken on that head.
:) Its the same Michael Hardy.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ "I remember doing the time-warp..."
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:43:42
EID:904d 21936560
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b947e1
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b73c74
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Fredric and Al were killing time yakking about Warring Christanic Factions:
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Worrell <=-
dw>> I just got an email from Kevin Mckenzie informing me that
dw>> Al was taking a beating from Hardy on IRC. I can't wait to
dw>> find out what brought this on.
FR> Warring Christanic factions. Cute. Maybe they're gonna
FR> kill each other over how many gods they really have. }:-}
dw> From what I can tell from the log he sent me, Hardy has been taking
dw> lessons from Bustilloz. He may even approach human status one day. If
dw> you want it, I can email it to you.
FR> If Hardy is starting to express the growing realization that his gods
FR> don't exist and that his religious masters have been lying to him and
FR> that he's been the dupe and fool, sure, I would love a copy! If he's
FR> just argueing points about the Christian mythologies or picking
FR> ideologies which are Christian and those which aren't, I have quite
a
FR> bit of such logs of him here already. He _did_ used to be called
FR> "Salad Bar" Hardy.
FR> ~*~ Pagans were Atheists. - Kim Kelley
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to the
heathens....
Guess, THAT sort of statement is as standard as "why are you so bitter".
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Attention K-Mart shoppers, today the special is...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 19 Dec 96 12:49:33
EID:814f 21936620
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32b947e2
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72371361
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Martin were killing time yakking about ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
AS> Again, free will. You must make the first, faltering
AS> step. God allows things to happen in this life. He will give
AS> you forgiveness, help you along the way, even lift you up to
AS> Heaven. But we must make the first move.
MG> Were I a deist, I would still disagree.
MG> If there is an after life populated by souls, then all souls would be
MG> the same. It's too bad that some of them got caught in the body of
a
MG> madman.
MG> When Adolf Hitler died, Adolf Hitelr was gone. Only his "soul" would
MG> go anywhere. And where would a merciful god send a soul whose only
MG> sin was to be caught int he body of a madman?
MG> This is just another reasont hat your "freewill" arguement makes no
MG> sense. God is said to have infinite mercy, so if the soul is not what
MG> goes to heaven or hell and the actual person does after death then
MG> that individual should gain admittance, just from "infinite" mercy.
MG> Infinite is another word like perfect. It's an absolute. Therefore,
MG> my answer is that Adolf Hitler would be in heaven.
MG> But since there is no such place, it's a moot point.
Nicely formulated, moot or no.
Thanks.
MG> -!- msgedsq 2.1
MG> ! Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ ...I am, therefore I think, I think....
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Darkness
|Date: 20 Dec 96 05:56:08
EID:5fb5 21942f00
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 25f934ba
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ba2b7e
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> It is surprisingly easy to do without intimidation. Any abusive
DH>> parent can pull it off simply by restricting the flow of normal
DH>> affirmative feedback, metering it out in minute quantities such that
DH>> the child comes to crave it and will do absolutely anything to gain
DH>> it.
KW> The odd and horrible thing to me is that this sort of parent so often
KW> considers themselves to be a 'good' parent.
Sadly, yes. In most of civilization, one must obtain a license to
drive a car but need know nothing to raise children.
DH>> I've never ceased to be astonished by the distance people will go to
DH>> acquire a tiny bit of approval.
KW> It's because they've never felt that they've had it, and that approval
KW> represents the only validation that they can feel safe with.
It seems we are hardwired to collect positive feedback from primary
caregivers as an essential mechanism in the process of growing up.
If it isn't there, we're broken.
KW> By
KW> being carefully taught to not be able to trust in their own judgement
KW> of 'right' or 'wrong' behaviour, they are set up for a lifetime of
KW> being tools in other's hands.
And still looking for that one person they can trust to take
care of them. Tragic, really.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:02:24
EID:44e2 21943040
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b86b30
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ba2c44
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Nate Cookson to Don Martin:
NC> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead
NC> fetuses:
Let's see your sources for these. What percentage do you think
occur in LEGAL abortion clinics or hospitals, and what makes
your feeble mind think so?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: False Christian Scum [1/2]
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:08:48
EID:57f6 21943100
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 04f55ca5
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ba2e10
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of David Worrell to Sue Armstrong:
DW> Regardless, I don't care if the intruder's grandfather raped him daily
DW> from the time of his 12th birthday until he ran away. I don't care if
DW> his parents never bought him that Tinkertoy set he always wanted. I
DW> don't care what the fuck his problem is, or what he (or the people he
DW> leaves behind) claims it is. He needs to die. If the homeowner does
DW> it, fine. If not, the state should.
Exactly. It is really so sad and too bad that such things happen to
a person, but if they can't function in a society, I for one, don't
want them in it.
DW> US cities are in a mess because no one wants to take responsibility
DW> for their actions.
Bingo. Canadian cities are in their proprotional mess for precisely
the same reason. That and we find reasons not to hold people accountable
for their actions even if they refuse to do so themselves.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:13:30
EID:8f10 219431a0
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 05157ed3
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ba2f27
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of David Worrell to Sue Armstrong:
DW> 1. It is always best to plan ahead. If world politics developed to the
DW> point where Canada became a threat,
Canada will never become a threat, unless of course you somehow get
sucked into becoming bilingual. That's worth defending.
More likely, Canada's resources (including but not limited to water)
will become essential.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Religious comments
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:31:00
EID:17c0 21944be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Chris Green <=-
-=> Chris Green spoke thusly to Sean Mccullough <=-
>CG> Ah yes 'Le Mort D'Arthur' written in the 16th century
>CG> by a Christian
JB> Mallory
Then it befell upon a tide,
Sir Gawain, that was hende and free,
He made him redy for to ride,
Before the gates of the citee;
Launcelot of tresoun he becried,
That he had slain his brethern three;
That Launcelot might no lenger abide,
But he ever a coward sholde be.
The lord that grete was of honour,
Himself, Sir Launcelot du Lake,
Above the gates upon the towr,
Comely to the king he spake:
"My lord, God save your honour!
Me is wo now for your sake,
Against thy kin to stand in stour,
But needes I moste this batail take."
... Creationists: the ignorant telling scientists how science is done.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Water and Flood
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:33:00
EID:a40d 21944c20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to David Rice <=-
>>LA> If you would only stop and think for a moment, you would
>>LA> realise that evolutionary geology
>DR> If you would stop to think, you stupid shit, you would
>DR> come to discover there's no such thing as "evolutionary
>DR> geology."
LA> Ah the arrogance of the "true believer" types eh?
You sure got that right, to arrogant piece of shit.
LA> You feel perfectly free to call others "you stupid
LA> shit" when ever you feel life it.
If you were not a stupid shit, no one would call you a
stupid shit, stupid shit.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Water and Flood (b).
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:34:00
EID:0eb9 21944c40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to David Rice <=-
>>LA> It follows that the rising of some ocean bottoms by
>>LA> major volcanic activity - for which there is massive
>>LA> evidence all over the world, would be all that is
>>LA> needed. So that is one possibility!
>DR> That evidence also demonstrates the fact that billions of
>DR> years were involved. That little fact you refuse to accept
LA> You don't know that at all. On the contrary we now know
LA> that most large mountainss are relatively RECENT and appear
LA> to have raised rapidly as well. i.e.
Yes, geologically speaking, a few million years is RECENT.
But then, you're a stupid shit, so why should I bother
trying to explain the facts to you?
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: LAURIE APPLETON
|Sub: Water and Flood (c)
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:37:00
EID:6938 21944ca0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to David Rice <=-
>>LA> After all the Polar areas have massive evidence that
>>LA> they were once warm and LUSH temperate areas and thus
>DR> Where is this "massive evidence?" Why have not not
>DR> shared this "evidence" of yours with the world and utterly
>DR> amaze real scientists?
LA> It WAS "shared" forty years ago and it did create a major
LA> furoure at the time and for several decades, even though
LA> this evidence had been found over 100 years ago in some
LA> cases! Here is a brief quote about it;
The insane lunatic Velikovsky claimed the "lush polar areas"
existed just yesterday, geologically speaking (i.e. 10,000
years bp). It is =THAT= claim you and your co-fundy
shits refuse to produce evidence for.
Pangea, if it existed, was many millions of years ago.
... Nothing fails as much as prayer fails.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JESSE JONES
|Sub: Lies
|Date: 20 Dec 96 10:22:00
EID:959e 219452c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to David Rice <=-
JJ> David, the fact that you have to lie so baldly about
JJ> what I have said here suggests you have some discomfort
JJ> at the truth of what I *have* said.
I hereby apologize profusely for the mistaken claims I
have made attributed to you, reproduced below. I lumped
you in with your more irrational co-religionists, and I
should not have done so.
>DR> be a paradise. We wouldn't have ignorant shits like
>DR> Jesse Christ Jones rolling on the floor wailing about
>DR> how it is not possible for non-theists to "do good
>DR> things:"
That was a misstatement on my part, and I apologize.
JJ> No. I have never said that. If you had some
JJ> confusion about it, let me repeat what I have said:
JJ> For the most part, atheists do not do good things."
JJ> That does not mean, I have never said, and I do not
JJ> believe that it is not possible for atheists to do
JJ> good things.
For the most part, people who fail to paint their noses
bright orange do no good things. You have =REFUSED= to
explain how that statement is in any way different than
the assertion you have made.
>DR> Why doesn't Jesse Christ Jones know it? Or the army
>DR> of darkness that make up his co-religionists? How can
>DR> they believe that taking a rod to a child will instill
>DR> proper behavior, instead of (in reality) instilling
>DR> merely contempt and loathing of those who apply their
>DR> power against the weak and the powerless?
JJ> I do not believe I have ever discussed the subject of
JJ> corporal punishment of children. I am strongly against
JJ> it in the schools, and incline against it in the homes.
JJ> Your attribution to me of support for such punishment
JJ> is yet another lie.
The "lie" was my honest mistake of lumping you in with your
hyper-fanatics co-religions, of which I apologize.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: QUENTIN FAI
|Sub: End Times are upon us!
|Date: 20 Dec 96 10:41:00
EID:a855 21945520
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Quentin Fai to Fredric Rice <=-
>FR> Some of them wait for a "rapture;" others don't.
>FR> I don't think Mormon cultists do. They're still
>FR> waiting for the mass starvation that their masters
>FR> have been selling them so that they can justify
>FR> the huge survivalist food storage scam.
The Mormon Church =SELLS= this food to its members
as a "service."
QF> So, that's why every Mormon I know has a massive
QF> stockpile of food in their basements, as well as
QF> why they seem so obsessed with canning equipment.
QF> Do you know any details about how they believe
QF> this mass starvation is going to come about?
During the Tribulation, right after the Dispensation, is
to rain down famine and genocide, with the chief target of
butchery being The Real True Christians (Mormons). There
will be blood flowing down the streets of Salt Lake City
to the height of the street gutters, of martyered Latter
Day Saints.
Since we are now living in the last days of the
Dispensation, the Tribulation will be starting "any
day now."
... "Those 'facts' are meaningless to me. I live by faith." -- Jim Staal
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Why don't we [sic] see Go
|Date: 20 Dec 96 10:49:00
EID:3bc9 21945620
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
FR> #include Lee Woofenden
>>LW> Here's something to add to the discussion about why
>>LW> we don't usually see God[sic].
Only during orgasm, I guess.
>DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods,
>DR> "non-usually" or otherwise?
FR> The utter audacity of demanding that "we" are in any
FR> way connected with his occult fantasies!
Mister Woofenden isn't someone I would call a Fundamentalist
religionist (of any cult). Yet he has shared a few of the
traints, such as posting the message I commented on above:
he spoke with great authority about the unknown, unknowable,
unparalleled, and to all known extents, imaginary. It is
often amazing how much detail theists can get into when
they explain the unexplainable, and discourse so long
and meticulously upon something that no one can know
anything about.
... "Those 'facts' are meaningless to me. I live by faith." -- Jim Staal
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 20 Dec 96 11:43:00
EID:1800 21945d60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Dave Hamilton <=-
>DH> That's nothing. In Christianity, you can erase
>DH> ANY NUMBER of horrible atrocities with one simple
>DH> repentence. It's sort of like a wild card.
DC> More like a Joker so that you can win with a rather
DC> poor set of morals vs the one that holds all of them.
A get-out-of-Hell-free card, regardless of how many
hundreds, thousands, or millions of brutally butchered
victims one might have caused while here in the ole
Vail of Tears (Earth).
ACT 3:19 "Repent therefore and return, that your
sins may be wiped away, in order that times of
refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
Evil words from an evil man (Saul of Tarsus). If a
Christian brutally rapes a little girl, then repents
with all his heart and soul, he goes to Heaven. If
the rapist was Hebrew, the little girl goes to Hell
for "inticing" him.
... Believe in a loving God, infidel, or die!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Christians Killd Millions
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:12:00
EID:6091 21946180
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Brett Johnson <=-
>>FR> Yeah, the concept of "sin" is itself the most
>>FR> destructive ideology that humanity has yet come
>>FR> up with. It negates the worth of humanity and
>>FR> has granted Christianity the excuse of
>>FR> slaughtering MILLIONS of innocent people
>BJ> I'll ignore the "slaughering millions" remark,
DW> Of course you will. You Christians have a habit of
DW> ignoring hurtful facts.
To the point where it is no longer funny.
>BJ> since it's unqualified, and inflamatory.
If the truth is "imflamatory," should one fail to
acknowledge it?! Sheeeeish!
DW> The Crusades.
Roughly 800,000 throughout Europe over 200 years,
with whole villages depopulated. At least one million
additional due to lack of Jewish (skilled) labor to
sustain the remaining populations. 25,000 or so
Muslims in the "Holy Land" killed by Christians
(the Christians lost those wars big time, due to
the Muslims having the home-court advantage).
DW> Uncounted witch-burnings, drowings, etc. both here
DW> and in Europe.
Tens of thousands, of which The Holy Office kept detailed
notes. When their fingers got cramped from noting down
all the names, they started noting down only the numbers
per town per incident: a dozen here, a hundred there.
DW> The slaughter of the Druids.
Maybe.
DW> Northern Ireland (at least you're killing your own
DW> there).
More have been crippled, maimed, and mutilated by
Christians there than killed by Christians. I've got
a GIF of a photograph of the result of a bomb blast in
Ireland--- dead human and equine bodies strewn over the
street, flames, teargass, woe and rubble and ruin
everywhere.
DW> Lebanon. Need I go on?
Yes: the Holocaust. In my opinion, Christian resentment
against the achievements and intellectual superiority of
Jewry throughout the centures was the single greatest
cause of the Holocaust, which killed at least 18 million
people. I suppose it is human a trait to resent ones'
betters, but socialization curbs acting out that
resentment: Christianity removed that interdiction, and
horror was the result.
DW> Go ahead... tell is "But they weren't *Real*, *True*
DW> *Christians!*"
"But they weren't. . . ."
... Genitals are people of non-Jewish origin.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 20 Dec 96 13:43:00
EID:0f1c 21946d60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to All <=-
FR> Greetings, guys and gals. (Fuck you, Jesse.)
SELECT DISTINCTROW Messages.Messages INTO Messages IN 'fr.mdb'
FROM Messages
WHERE (Messages.From="Fredric Rice");
Sub GetFucked()
Dim db As Database, tb As Table
Dim MessageCount As Integer, HowManyFucks As Integer
Dim FuckedMessages As Integer, st As Long
Dim found As Integer
'
Set db = OpenDatabase("FR.MDB")
Set tb = db.OpenTable("Messages")
'
tb.MoveFirst
Do
DoEvents
If tb.eof Then Exit Do
MessageCount = MessageCount + 1
forms.form1.caption = Str$(MessageCount)
st = 1
Do
DoEvents
If Not IsNull(tb(0)) Then
'
' 1 = case-insensitive seek
found = InStr(st, tb(0), "fuck", 1)
End If
'
If found > 0 Then
If st = 1 Then FuckedMessages = FuckedMessages + 1
st = found + 1
End If
'
If found = 0 Then Exit Do
HowManyFucks = HowManyFucks + 1
Loop
tb.MoveNext
Loop
tb.Close
db.Close
'
Open "c:\temp\Result.txt" For Output As #1
Print #1, "Total Messages: "; MessageCount
Print #1, "Total Fucked Messages: "; FuckedMessages
Print #1, "Total Fucks: "; HowManyFucks
Close
End Sub
C:\TEMP>type result.txt
Total Messages: 2510
Total Fucked Messages: 269
Total Fucks: 414
Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
in each.
... "Wait a minute. Those boots. That leather. Those legs. Xena!" -- Samon
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 20 Dec 96 18:59:18
EID:3369 21949760
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2bb2b6e0
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6885
Hello Steve!
Steve Hayes wrote in a message to Shelby Sherman:
SH> Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the devil,
SH> evil, sin and death.
SH> So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why
SH> anyone needs to be saved, but why anyone needs to stay in
SH> the concentration camp.
To tell you the 100% truth.... that msg from you has NEVER
before appeared in any HOLY_SMOKE packet I have seen during
the period I have been a participant (close to a year).
I thought you were just being obstinate and playing an
avoidance game - now, however, it looks like your original
reply simply didn't make it, not even from Pretoria to
Jo'burg.
You have obviously become loathed here, not due to your
own omission, but due to the sick-puppy-syndrome.
[The Commandant played a nasty trick on you].
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fundy death cult "prophecy"
|Date: 20 Dec 96 19:09:10
EID:bae5 21949920
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bae571
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ae8fa37c
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Saturni dies December 14 1996, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> Provided I am not shot by a milennium-crazy Jesse Jones,
FR> Or any other "pro-lifer." }:-} It would be neat! HolySmoke's first
FR> murder -- or attempted murder.
I'd rather not be on the receiving end of such an attempt. Remember how
the third Godfather movie ended?
FR> a murder. }:-} Then watch as the media depicts it as a "satanic
FR> conspiracy" involving the Internet and pornography.
They probably would, and we'd get Jesse Helms complaining about "nigrahs"
out on the Internet "gettin' uppity and stirrin' up trouble." :-/
sq>> I expect to have a lot of laughs when the Fundies
sq>> start their backpedalling around 2002. What I'd
sq>> -really- like to do in 2001 is go to some churches
sq>> and erect big black monoliths.
FR> }:-} They wouldn't have a clue.
Why use the conditional tense when the present indicative ("don't have")
works just fine? :)
FR> Ask any one of them who HAL 9000 was and they'll claim he was a robot
FR> on Star Trek or something. Few fundies have fantasy time outside of
FR> the occult.
I worked with someone who labelled the Star Wars movies as "Satanic" because
they "deal with the mind." So does reading...and? This same Fundy was
later nailed by the police for drug peddling (She and her husband smoked
dope in front of their kids. :-/).
sq>> Make 'em like pi¤atas, chock full of goodies like science
sq>> texts, explanations of mythology, debunkings of Nostradamus,
sq>> and so forth. "OK, boys, here's your monolith: Your
sq>> learning experience begins here. Let some years go by, and
sq>> you'll be building MOONBASES!"
FR> What a wonderful idea!
I say we DO IT. We just need to find a safe place from which we can blare
"Also Sprach Zarathusta" at 'em. :) ["The signature theme music from 2001,"
in case anybody is wondering.]
FR> ~*~ The righteous rise with burning eyes of hatred and ill-will:
FR> Madmen, fed on fear and lies, to beat and burn and kill - Rush
Shit, now you've made me run down the stairs to grab my copy of that (gold
disk too, woo woo!).
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Sorrowful Jones
|Date: 20 Dec 96 19:23:56
EID:8b53 21949ae0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32baecc1
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ae8fa384
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Ah...I'm sitting here enjoying the sounds of Rush's "Moving Pictures."
Can't hear any deities talking to me -- lyricist Neil Peart is an atheist
-- but it's an entertaining listen.
Saturni dies December 14 1996, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR> But that would have to mean that Jesse both actually believes his own
FR> ignorant bullshit
In my opinion, he -does- believe the bullshit he spouts. He's one of those
Fundies who tries to argue from authority, figuring that because he cites
Jung, he knows everything. When in doubt, quote authorities, stir in some
Bible and a bit of your own bullshit, and you appear intelligent. As I
have pointed out to Mr. Jones time and time again, he is what is called
in Spanish an "erudita a la violeta," or "overnight scholar," someone who
drops names and facts in an effort to appear intelligent. I recommend Morat¡n's
"La comedia nueva" (also known as "El caf‚") for anybody who wants to see
a good look at the likes of Jones as he appeared close to two hundred years
ago (Pay attention to Don Herm¢genes.). If this play isn't available in
English, it SHOULD BE.
Shit, I can dig up some TEENAGERS who know everything, and there's no Jung
involved.
FR> as well as mean he's never learned a single thing here.
Oh, I'm certain he's learned a few things.
FR> I think he _has_ learned something and that it has made him angry and
FR> resentful. Pissed off, in fact -- at both us _and_ his masters. His
rant
FR> about having "pacts" with his "demons" is a good point in fact; I doubt
he
That was his clown nose coming off, floating away in the vacuum of space.
Although I don't think he's learned anything, at least as far as his nonsense
is concerned, you present a valid point in that he has become considerably
more defensive over time. He reminds me of the bullies who'd attack me
in high school, ultimately ending up on the ground as I simply stepped out
of their way as they charged. They ended up madder and madder, and at the
same time, drew plenty of laughter from onlookers. Sometimes, though, that
made them much more dangerous...
FR>> His resentment-filled inability to answer RC Query #1 got
FR>> through to him, I think. Yes, he won't admit it outright
We now have SQ Query #1: "From where does your deity get his ethics?"
FR> We could ask him. "Your question is stupid; I will not answer
FR> it."
"I don't know how you could ask such a stupid question. If you really want
an answer you will have to sit there and shut up for three hours."
-- Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, candidate for the papacy in 1978, from an interview
given to "Gazzetta del Populo"
sq>> FWIW, the first time, two women came to our apartment in Salt
sq>> Lake. An audible gasp came from the mouth of one, and it was
sq>> hard to repress the laughter. "Weren't looking for a man here,
sq>> were you?" :)
FR> Was it the fact that you're a man
This one. You've dealt with the Mormons, Fred: You know how they are about
sex. The law-abiding citizens of said church are completely tight-assed
about it, making me wonder why they're always thinking or talking about
it.
sq>> Every time I've dealt with them they ask to "just speak with Suzanne."
FR> Yep. That's the one. That's the evil. You're their "satan" god working
FR> to keep the "truth" from tender, young, innocent Christian gurls.
Yup. Wait until they see Suzanne's signature on the legal documents. :)
FR> I can state that when dealing with Mormons, ___anything___ is possible.
FR> They're not above kidnapping your wife and keeping her locked away while
FR> they file all kinds of abuse charges on you. You've read the books,
I'm
FR> sure, about how Mormons break up families.
Haven't read about kidnapping, although the polygamist wackos in the south
of the state are known to deal in that. I've read Deborah Laake's book,
"Secret Ceremonies," as well as quite a few books about bomber Mark Hofmann.
sq>> "Do you want to hear me say 'the f word' to your Daddy? Tell him to
sq>> leave, then." I've been itching to try that with one of my wife's
sq>> obnoxious nieces. "If you don't leave, I'll say 'the f word.'"
FR> The horrors! Not the "F" word! Anything but the "F" word!
"That is the word that the Knights Who Say 'Ni' are forbidden to hear!"
FR> But that would drag me down to their level, validating what the
FR> abusive parents tell them about "bad words." My sons know there's no
I just want them off my doorstep. Of course, I CAN see some little kid
going back to his friends, saying "What does 'cunt' mean? This man we saw
called my father that."
FR> There's a good point. They _are_ abusing the children when they drag
them
FR> from door to door. They should, in fact, be charged with child
FR> endangerment when doing so in a number of cities here in the Los Angels
FR> area.
Like Watts? :)
sq>> Have you no tongue? Why are you having a child express
sq>> 'truth' to a thirty-year-old man when YOU are the one
sq>> who wants to do the expressing?"
Darn! I was hoping that Mr. Jones would pipe up on this one.
FR> All the kids that have come to my door, dragged behind cultists, have
FR> never said a word -- I won't let them start. The adult always starts
with
FR> a "how are you doing this morning, sir?"
"Well, I'm going in to have a barium enema this morning so the doctors can
check me out for ulcers. The Mormon door-to-door fanatics are driving me
crazy. So what do you want?"
FR> do to him if he gets sick. If not, I have taken up asking why they
think
FR> it's perfectly acceptable to go door to door selling hatred, bigotry,
FR> ignorance, fear, and superstition.
And the responses?
sq>> after I tell him to leave my wife alone? Sends a card along with a
sq>> note saying "I think I offended your husband. If there's anything
I
sq>> can do for you, please contact me at xxx-xxxx." Man, if I were the
sq>> jealous and suspicious type, I'd have a FIELD DAY with this! :)
I hope he calls again, because I'm going to unload on him the second time.
:)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Why are you so ANGRY????
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:54:55
EID:2351 219466c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32bad408
REPLY: 1:3612/63.0 8A58C6F1
Victor Rojas said "CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE" to J.j. Hitt,
adding:
-> BF> Being drunk on booze is not all that much different than
-> BF> being drunk on the Lord. At least with booze, though,
-> BF> there's a certain measure of dignity :)
->
-> Not only that, but if you get too much booze you can always
-> throw up. Get too much Lord and you're stuck with the fucker.
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going
VR> to? Sounds like you are very resentful, and bitter,
VR> things that are coming out of your mouth are very
VR> negative. Most of your questions can dind solutions in
VR> the Bible itself. The Bible says that in part we know
VR> and in part we prophetize. Man will never figure out
VR> God, so don't spin your wheels. Don't take a chance
VR> with God, either you take
He's all yours, J.J.: he crept out of the woodwork
calling your name.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:02:15
EID:4c2b 21946040
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32bad409
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32b9a208
Never one to be open to accusations of thinking for himself,
Nate Cookson said "Big Daddy" to Richard Smith, adding:
RS> Sorry, Nathaniel, to interrupt this lovely tirade of yours,
RS> but turning what Mr. Martin said around and saying it back
RS> to him is problematical for two reasons. First, it doesn't
RS> answer any question. And secondly, it IS the first step in
RS> the Fundie Shuffle. In other words, no one here will take
RS> it seriously. Since I presume that you want to be taken
RS> seriously (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this), this
RS> is FYI.
NC> OIC, Mr Martian is not capable of handling his own
NC> discussions so he sends in the second string! Great! It
NC> makes no never mind to me....
Your not having much of a mind to begin with, I do not
imagine that it would. However, I should like to see some
evidence to back up your claims that:
a. I am incapable of handling a discussion with the
likes of you.
b. Mr. Smith is my "second string."
c. Mr. Smith is acting here on my orders.
Personally, I think these claims are all bullshit, like
everything else that flows from your keyboard, but I am
willing to give you the chance to demonstrate some sentience
and honesty.
NC> And since you don't know me from Adam (excuse the pun)
NC> , you will have to define this term you used "Fundie
NC> Shuffle"....
You would have us suppose that if Mr. Smith _were_
better acquainted with you, you would thereby know the
meaning of the term? Christ on a crutch, you even have to
bullshit a simple request for information. It is OK to ask
for definitions: honest people do it by admitting that they
need the information.
The fundy shuffle is the increasingly frantic attempt to
avoid answering direct questions, a behavior characteristic
of fundies. It takes many forms; instead of answering the
question at hand, the typical fundy will:
1. distort the question by restating it in his own very
different terms, then attack the distortion (this is
called the strawman fallacy).
2. provide tons of quotations having nothing to do with
the question in hopes of smothering it under the
sheer mass of material.
3. talk in circles. The most frequent here runs "God
exists because the Bible sez so: the Bible is the
Truth because God sez so." (People who talk this way
probably imagine that only the bottom parts of tires
ever go flat.)
4. argue from some authority that no-one else recognizes
as an authority without presenting any data upon
which that "authority" bases his findings.
5. attack the motivations, personality, and attitudes of
the person asking the question. Favorites here are:
"Why are you so _angry_?" and "That is an example of
your blasphemous cunning!"
6. change the subject.
7. fail to grasp the meaning of the question or its
context, no matter how often these are explained
(sometimes very patiently indeed) to him. A good
example of this would be the efforts of Messers
Musselwhite and McFarlane to explain science to
Laurie Appleton over the past three or four months.
8. propose Pascal's Wager.
Doubtless, I have left out many: the ability of fundies
to avoid answering a direct question exceeds my ability to
keep track of their evasions. Another that should be
mentioned, though, is what happens when all else fails:
9. go into Fundy Meltdown. This usually involves hurling
threats at everyone involved (including murder
threats, of which we have had several and none, I
believe, from any atheists) and then disappearing
from the echo.
NC>
NC> If you had read my post, you would have known that I wasn't trying
NC> to give him a flat answer,
Now _that's_ for damned sure. You have yet to provide a
flat answer for anything.
NC> I was trying in my on humble way of showing him that
NC> instead of just the two possibilities..
Your way is more humble than you, perhaps, are capable
of realizing.
NC> there was a 3rd.
One characterized by having no discernible difference
from one of the first pair.
NC> So, why not let Mr Martian stand on his own two feet without help
You got your wish, puttock.
NC> ok? If he needs the help I'm sure he will call you.
So which is it? In your first sentence, you claim that I
_have_ called Mr. Smith; now you seem to claim that he is
acting on his own.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:49:47
EID:7d4d 21946620
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32bad40a
REPLY: 1:3652/1 32B9F6A9
Jason Harmon said ""Flat Earth" Town" to Andrew Masten,
adding:
JH> 1. What makes you think Jesus was God?
AM> Because Jesus thought so.
JH> If Jesus were YHWH, why was he often praying to himself?
One of the fundies has been claiming that god lacks a
penis: perhaps this is the only form of masturbation
available to the poor thing.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Big Daddy
|Date: 20 Dec 96 13:03:04
EID:fd65 21946860
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32badc9a
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2ba48c04
Richard Smith said "Big Daddy" to Don Martin,
adding:
RS> It's your call here, Don. Apparently Nate here doesn't care
RS> for others pointing out his dishonest movements in this
RS> discussion. If you want to eviscerate him all by yourself,
RS> just let me know. Otherwise, I will choose a tasty flank and
RS> commence to chew a bit as well . . .
Hey, here is God's plenty for everyone . . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Darrow's Nonsense (b).
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:38:00
EID:3a49 21938cc0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A595B30
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dave Hamilton spoke thusly to Laurie Appleton <=-
DH> I think it's about time you posted your credentials. What
DH> qualifies you to criticize someone with a secondary school
DH> or higher education?
From what I've seen, Laurie doesn't have the credentials to criticize
someone with a kindergarten education.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: sorry about that
|Date: 19 Dec 96 17:49:00
EID:c5c7 21938e20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A595B31
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
Hey Fred. I screwed up and sent you a message and spelled your name
wrong (Frederic instead of Fredric)
Sorry about that. If you want to look for it, it has the URL for the
Charleston newspaper online.
Sorry.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:06:00
EID:9dd6 219430c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59C416
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Steve Hayes spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
SH> Answer the question, fascist.
1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh well, I must be
doing something right. There's another one here who calls me a LIBERAL.
I guess these are supposed to be insults. Missed by <-----------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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___---------------------------------------------->that much.
And I still don't know what sponge cats are, and can find no reference
to them in any book I have around nor on the web. No sense of being
afraid of something that seems to be totally imaginary. And if it is a
live animal that I might know under some other name, then the point is
moot because I don't think there is an animal alive that I am 'afraid'
of. ESPECIALLY not in the cat family.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The pitter-patter of litt
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:31:00
EID:8748 219433e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59C417
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Don Martin spoke thusly to Nate Cookson <=-
DM> If these things are not to be thrown out, what would you
DM> do with them?
Perhaps the pet food industry would be interested. So many processing
plants use ethoxyquin to preserve meat by-products, and so many animals
are having a lot of health problems as a result, that a cleaner source
of meat protein would be welcome.
Wonder how far his head will explode from that statement?
... Wreck the malls with cows on Harleys...
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Das Uber Noel
|Date: 20 Dec 96 06:41:00
EID:db9d 21943520
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59C418
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Richard Smith spoke thusly to All <=-
RS> Hagan warns that the Colorado boycott will mushroom into
RS> a nationwide movement; the preacher told The Denver Post
If it does, I want a list of the stores that refuse to comply. That's
where I want to shop. I'm tired of the smarmy 'good wishes' and cutesy
answering machine messages.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 20 Dec 96 08:02:00
EID:c7b0 21944040
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59C419
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
This is especially to Jesse Jones:
I have finally hit upon a very solid, logical reason for using the
winter holidays (pc on my part to not offend anyone ) to celebrate
and buy gifts for each other, etc.
October is the beginning of a new fiscal year for the company my husband
works for. By December, all the numbers have been taken care of and the
employees' share, in the form of a bonus has been calculated and checks
cut. This bonus is also sent out at this time.
So, in the month of December, we have extra discretionary income. We use
it to go out to eat and to buy something that we want that we would not
otherwise have the cash for. (This year it is a digital camera) The same
for sending presents to the kids...we now have the cash to do it.
The same would hold true if this bonus came to us at ANY time of the year.
We would go out to eat, buy something we want and send some things to the
kids even if the check came in July.
... Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een gelukkig nieuwjaar -Dutch Christmas
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: WHY?
|Date: 16 Dec 96 19:41:00
EID:2075 21909d20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A552B09
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Michael Hardy spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
MH> puts up with. Of course, the unjustifed ones account for maybe five
MH> percent of his criticism. :-)
Aren't you being a bit generous?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 16 Dec 96 19:44:00
EID:b4a3 21909d80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A552B0A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let me
know.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 18 Dec 96 21:40:00
EID:2dfe 2192ad00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A586274
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Richard Smith spoke thusly to Sue Alexander <=-
RS> great debate going on about if chocolate is lethal for dogs
RS> in large doses. If anyone is interested, I can bootleg some
Theobromine, the active ingredient in chocolate is definitely lethal
for dogs and it doesn't need to be in large quantities. Some dogs have
a higher tolerance for it than others, but it is not good for any of
them. And the fat in chocolate can also help promote pancreatitis which,
in the best cases, leads only to some VERY expensive surgery. Best cases
not happening very often...usual outcome is death of the animal. PAINFUL
death.
Have these people never heard of asking a vet?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Enochban.Rit
|Date: 19 Dec 96 05:41:00
EID:4e0e 21932d20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A58A3EC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Martin Goldberg spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
MG> I have quit reading BC just on general principles. Johnny Hart has
MG> gone fundy on us.
This one you would have liked.
The clam is standing outside the ants' school;
Teacher: Who discovered the Mississippi River?
Johnny: Plymouth?
Teacher: No, it was DeSoto
Johnny: Sob, sob, boo-hoo...oh my poor self-esteem.
Teacher: That's ok, Johnny. They're both Chrysler products so I'm giving
you an A.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: COMPUTER PROGRAMS
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:45:00
EID:cb63 21934da0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A58CCC7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> John Brawley spoke thusly to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> never been able to track down: "Oh, what a serpent's tooth it is to
JB> have a thankless child"....
The quote is 'how sharper than a serpent's tooth...' King Lear.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:50:00
EID:105a 21934e40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A58CCC8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Martin Goldberg <=-
ML> Sheesh. It's a good thing I didn't tell him about what I did to
ML> the Girl Scouts who came by here last month.
Made them toss their cookies, huh?
... Santa charged everything on *my* American Express Card.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Bluewave OLR and stuff...
|Date: 19 Dec 96 09:52:00
EID:8898 21934e80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A58CCC9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
ML> back to the still registered and still resident v2.12)? It
I knew there was a post I forgot to answer. Mine did the same thing
a while back. I got it to reaccept the registration code by changing the
NAME in the registration box. I figured as long as I had the letter with
the code in it I was ok.
Why changing my name got it to work is something I'd sure like to hear
an explanation for.
... Backup aborted: Please remove disk #92 and start over.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Frederic Rice
|Sub: teacher
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:35:00
EID:dbf0 21935c60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A58CCCA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
Ok, Fred, I found the URL for the Charleston paper. Unfortunately, to
get into the archives, where all the stories are listed, costs $9.95
per month.
http://www.charleston.net
The teacher's name is Phyllis Adelsflugel (and no, I am NOT making it
up) and she is going back to work on January 8. The school board caved in,
over the objection of the superintendent, and gave her back her job.
... Tagline Deleted: Nothing funny about this shit.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: The Steve Winter FAQ [2/2
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:06:00
EID:2c29 2191a0c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57565A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Doug Lee spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
DL> Tho' seriously if you really have a stake in this, let Steve Adams
DL> know.
No, the only stake I had was in getting rid of the rantings of Winter
on the newsgroup. He was even beginning to tell people that they weren't
even Quakers, let alone christians. (As if we carry ID cards or something.)
DL> drop the suit against them. Concentric on the other hand has filed a
DL> counter-suit against him.
Concentric is my provider. A lot of the reason for the counter-suit is
that a lot of those complaining were also Concentric customers. Enough
that if we all got up and walked off, they'd take an awful big hit in the
wallet.
DL> apparently means that, if successful, Winter can never again file the
DL> same suit against Concentric ever again. He would also have to pay
DL> for both lawers and pay triple damages.
Yep. That's the way it works. I will let Steve Adams know that if he needs
a statement from someone who was witness to the whole thing (less than 2
weeks before Concentric pulled the plug on Winter), I'm willing. However,
Winter doesn't stand much of a chance under Concentric's terms of service
agreement which clearly states that you can lose your account with NO
warning if they receive 'excessive' complaints about your behavior.
Also, in the Quaker newsgroup at least, it was agreed that complaints would
ONLY go to Winter's personal ISP and not the one he uses to conduct his
business (he never posted from that one) as it wouldn't be fair to interfere
with his livelihood.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:21:00
EID:87a8 2191a2a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57565B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Christian Hedemark spoke thusly to Karen Davis <=-
CH> China is also well known for killing monks (non-Christian).
That's strange. Den Haag (NL) Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society
of Friends has had a mission in China continuously for the last 50 years.
Even under Mao, they were never interfered with.
And Quakers do NOT hide their activities.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Dr. Seuss Purity Test
|Date: 17 Dec 96 20:42:00
EID:f80d 2191a540
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57565C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Karen Davis spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> Only if you also have no ovaries.
KD> I was born without either, do I count?
You were born with (and use) a brain. That counts for more than several
hundred gonads.
... Bah, Humbug! Don't post 'til next year." - Moderator Christmas greetin
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: I didn't get this
|Date: 18 Dec 96 08:38:00
EID:d346 219244c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57A9EC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Fredric Rice spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
FR> I was interested in finding out what was written on her face and what
FR> motivated it all. I had hoped to get a name or something that I could
What was written was "where are my" on one cheek, and "glasses" on the
other. The child, new to wearing glasses, had forgotten (or just not
wanted to wear) them several times.
FR> use to do a newspaper search so I could focus on followups. At first
The Charleston Post/Courier has a web site (don't know the URL, sorry) and
you would probably find the articles listed under a search for 'teacher'.
This has turned out to be the screwiest thing I have ever seen. First the
teacher offered her resignation and the school board refused it. Then the
board fired her. OK, maybe I can see the reasoning behind this...if she
resigns the incident can't be related to potential future employers but
if
she's fired it can. But now she's suing the school board to get her job
back. I don't have kids in school here anymore, but I sure as hell don't
want to see her continue teaching.
FR> glance I have to ask why even a five year old would allow a teacher
to
FR> write on her -- I'm curious whether it was forced or whether the five
FR> year old submitted peacefully.
It looks like the child submitted. But I've seen a picture of the teacher
AND one of the child. The child is small, not undernourished or anything,
but a tiny little thing. The teacher is one hell of a BIG woman. I can see
the child being too scared to do anything else. And you have to remember
that
this kid is still at the age when they will do just about anything to
please the adults in their lives, to keep them from being 'mad'.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: "Sin" mythology: The firs
|Date: 18 Dec 96 07:39:00
EID:7c53 21923ce0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57A9ED
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Fredric Rice spoke thusly to Brett Johnson <=-
FR> Would you like for me to post some body counts that the Christanic
FR> death cult is responsible for, Brett? No? Then let's not waste your
FR> intellectual, ethical, and moral superiors' time, shall you?
Oh do it anyway, Fred. It's so funny to watch them sputter like a motor
boat and turn blue.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 18 Dec 96 08:16:00
EID:fb20 21924200
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57A9EE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jesse Jones spoke thusly to Steve Quarrella <=-
JJ> residential facility and hospice for families with AIDS, at which I
JJ> played Santa Claus.
Geeee, Jesse! You didn't also deliver dog and cat food to the local
shelter? You're falling down on the job.
JJ> But you will have to excuse me, please, if I do not get misty-
JJ> eyed hearing your story about giving away a bottle of pop.
I think you better ask yourself what is sacrifice? I've always understood
it to mean giving something to someone else that means a lot to you. Isn't
that the rationale behind 'if a man asks you for your coat, give him also
your cloak'?
Which is the bigger sacrifice...giving something you have in abundance
with little impact on yourself or JOYFULLY giving something small that
is the last of it's kind without knowing if you'll ever be able to
replace it?
Your priorities are screwy, Jesse. And the fact that you feel compelled
to detail your good works says to me that you are doing them more for
recognition (whether by your god or your fellow man makes no difference)
than for the satisfaction of just doing them.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 18 Dec 96 11:26:00
EID:a014 21925b40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57E814
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
AS> start one of our own. (#irc, despite recent forays where I had
AS> everybody challenging me on why we think God exists...nothing like
AS> being the lone person in a big argument, ENORMOUS fun...really doesn't
AS> lend itself to SERIOUS discussion as well as this medium.)
Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself to
'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back and
try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that others
can't.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Can't do constants
|Date: 18 Dec 96 11:29:00
EID:1a4a 21925ba0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57E815
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JB> Isn't QEdit a commercial program?
AS> I was going to send him. I certainly wasn't going to encourage him to
Why the defensiveness? I asked because I wasn't sure and THOUGHT it was
a commercial program. I've caught myself at times saying 'let me give you
a copy of 'x' and then later realizing that I couldn't do it because it
was a commercial program and not shareware. It happens. Sometimes a
reminder is welcome.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 18 Dec 96 11:38:00
EID:5d34 21925cc0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57E816
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Fredric Rice <=-
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
Nope, with no other changes, you couldn't do it as an atheist.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 18 Dec 96 11:52:00
EID:7e3e 21925e80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A57E817
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Joe Shedlock spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JS> Quentin. ;) You could probably give him better advice on how to relate
JS> to the opposite sex than I could. One thing I have learned on IRC's
I've tried. So has just about every other woman here. Quentin thinks we
are just trying to be 'nice' to him. Oh well, the only cure for what ails
him is time.
JS> #holysmoke: never underestimate giving a woman a gift of chocolates.
Absolutely right. Time might heal all wounds but chocolate makes having
them more easily bearable.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: The Big Dog's BBS-Charleston, SC *803-769-6131* (1:372/62.0)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 20 Dec 96 19:46:30
EID:f9b6 21949dc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32baefb1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 09694946
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, ROBERT!
Dies solis December 15 1996, Dixit ROBERT CURRY ad Steve Quarrella:
RC> Nothing you say or do will make any difference to Brother Jesse.
Oh, I know. Remember, he's alluding to me when he talks about "demonic
pacts." I'm pretty flattered to think that he thinks I work for his "Satan"
deity.
RC> He's welcome to correct me, if need be, but that's my considered
RC> evaluation of his attitude toward you personally. His mind is made
RC> up, and nothing will ever change that.
I enjoy being the recipient of his "Christian fellowship." His posts have
entertained friends and co-workers alike, some of them Christians. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Jesus needed...
|Date: 20 Dec 96 19:57:42
EID:906d 21949f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32baf007
REPLY: 1:3603/210 09694947
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
With: Karen Davis
Dies solis December 15 1996, Dixit ROBERT CURRY ad Jim Staal:
JS>>>> Karen, as God the father is spirit, He would neither have
JS>>>> nor have need of a penis. As Jesus Christ is God in the flesh,
JS>>>> He certainly had need for and indeed did possess one.
So, if God (this spirit) made man "in his image," are we to assume that
Adam didn't have a penis either?
The real answer here is that the -serpent- gave Adam a penis and Eve a vagina.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 20 Dec 96 19:59:10
EID:0271 21949f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32baf062
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A544397
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Michael!
Saturni dies December 14 1996, Dixit Michael Hardy ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> God is the source for righteousness. God is the ultimate concern.
"Duh...don't you worry, never fear, Robin Hood will soon be here."
SQ>> And the evidence for that is...what?
JJ>> Your demands for evidence make you just another fundamentalist,
JJ>> Stevie.
His inability to back what he says makes -him- a Fundamentalist.
MH> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations suggest you know you
MH> have none.
Am I being defended by -another- Michael Hardy from Alabama?
:)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 20 Dec 96 20:53:12
EID:9a76 2194a6a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bafcca
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
I am told that Sagan died yesterday. Comments?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 20 Dec 96 04:43:00
EID:3552 21942560
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0048bec4
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b73c74
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Fredric Rice you wrote:
dw>> From what I can tell from the log he sent me, Hardy has
dw>> been taking lessons from Bustilloz. He may even approach
dw>> human status one day. If you want it, I can email it to
dw>> you.
FR>> If Hardy is starting to express the growing realization
FR>> that his gods don't exist and that his religious masters
FR>> have been lying to him and that he's been the dupe and
FR>> fool, sure, I would love a copy! If he's just argueing
FR>> points about the Christian mythologies or picking
FR>> ideologies which are Christian and those which aren't, I
FR>> have quite a bit of such logs of him here already. He _did_
FR>> used to be called "Salad Bar" Hardy.
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now
AS> all of the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This
AS> should be very interesting.
Neither Fredric nor I were overly "nice" to Mike in the above passages.
He has, though, allied (however tentatively) himself with the Armies of
Light (that would be us) and against the Armies of Darkness, Irrationality,
Fear, and Superstition (that would be you and your brethren). It is generally
a good rule of thumb to treat you allies differently than you treat your
targets.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Tina Doak
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: ,
|Date: 19 Dec 96 23:42:07
EID:328e 2193bd40
I am a Baptist what gives????
* SPITFIRE v3.51 ** RainTree BBS - 804-740-2413 - 300-28.8k baud - 24HRS
A DAY **
--- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Euthanasia
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:53:12
EID:517a 21944ea0
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32bb0699
Dan Ceppa said "EUTHANASIA" to Don Martin, adding:
DC> Anyhow, to make a long story short, he got at least one of the
DC> books requested. The funniest thing is that I got my "ass
DC> chewed" by my ex because my son went to the library to get
DC> the book! Mich too "far to go"! 3 blocks in the opposite
DC> direction from her place, and all in the School Zone of
DC> the roads.
At 10? Hate to sound like an old fart, but when I was 10, I was
walking to and from school in Silverdale, 2.5 miles each way (but
only uphill on the way back--another ten years and it will be uphill
both ways): 10-year-olds can _handle_ 3 blocks.
DC> I'm not quite sure if she knows what a book is, let alone
DC> a library.
Your _first_ wife, I presume? We often tend to make better
choices subsequently. Take _my_ first wife---please!
DC> More on that this weekend when I ask him about what he learned
DC> from the book. :)
You know, he might enjoy Kon Tiki. Nothing to do with the
history, of course, but it presents the possibility that the people
here were more than vanquish fodder.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mike Melia
|Sub: Re: New Start
|Date: 14 Dec 96 15:47:00
EID:d273 218e7de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b25b74
On 03-08-96 at 16:03, MIKE MELIA wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
MM> I'll be praying for you!
I'll be praying for you, Mikey! :)
MM> ~ TLX v4.10 ~ Before you turn your back on JESUS take a look at His!
... Penis??? :) Before it gets rammed right up your butt??? :)
:)
Rod "...I'm saving my anal virginity for Jeeezus!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Your Daily Alien
|Date: 14 Dec 96 16:12:02
EID:00d2 218e8180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b26152
On 03-08-96 at 18:21, J.J. HITT wrote to GEORGE MOOTH:
JH> Your Daily (illegal) Alien's Favorite Pick Up Lines
JH> TENGO GANAS DE HACERTE EL AMOR
JH> "I am horny."
JH> (Ai em jorni.)
I bet you are, honey babes, so I decided to get out my favourite
hot and horny foreign lingo book :) :)
The only thing you have to do is guess the language :) :) I've
given examples of what a person of each gender would say :)
English: You asshole!
Male: Kono kusottare!
English: You bitch!
Male/Female: Kono ama!
English: You whore!
Male/Female: Yariman!
English: Male slut!
Female: Onna-tarashi!
(literally: Female's trash!)
English: Faggot!
Male/Female: Okama!
English: Narrow-minded idiot!
Male: Ketsu-no ana-no chiisai yaroo!
(literally: Your asshole is small!)
English: Fuck You!/Go To Hell!
Male: Kutabare!
Male: Shinjimae! (literally: die before your proper time)
English: I'm going to kick your ass!
Male: Bukkoroshite yaru
(literally: I'm going to hit you until you die)
English: Shit!
Male/Female: Kuso!
Male/Female: Unko!
English: You freak!
Female: Kono sukeba!
English: You sexual pervert!
Female: Kono hentai!
English: Your penis is small!
Female: Tansho!
English: I'll take you home
Female: Okutte ku-wa
Male: Okutte iku-yo
English: Do you want to drink coffee in the morning?
Male/Female: Isshoni yoake-no koohi nomanai?
English: I'm crazy about you
Female: Anata-ni muchuu-nano
Male: Kimi-ni muchuu-nanda
English: I love you
Male/Female: Aishiteru
English: Is this your first time?
Male/Female: Hajimete?
English: Don't worry
Male/Female: Shimpai shinai-de
English: Treat me kindly
Female: Yasashiku shite-ne
English: I don't want to have a baby
Female: Aka-chan hoshikunai-no
English: Will you use protection?
Male/Female: Hinin shite?
English: How do you want me to do it?
Male/Female: Donna fuu-ni shite hoshii?
English: Touch me
Male/Female: Sawatte
English: Bite me
Male/Female: Kande
English: Stronger/Softer
Male/Female: Motto tsuyoku/Motto yasashiku
English: Faster/Slower/Deeper
Male/Female: Motto hayaku/Motto yukkuri/Motto fukaku
English: I'm coming!
Male/Female: Iku! Iku!
Male: Iki-soo-da!
English: Did you come?
Male/Female: Itta?
English: Want to get married now?
Male/Female: Kekkon shite-kureru?
English: By the way, how much does a Japanese wedding cost?
Male/Female: Tokoro-de, Nihon-no kekkonshiki ikura kakaru-no?
Rod "... your friendly Japanese language major" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Let's support Less Characters sent in Echoes Year 1997
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:03:04
EID:45ad 218f5060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b35c58
On 29-07-96 at 23:16, JIM STAAL wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ:
JS> LB> *blink* Ok, bozo -- do you regard Russian children with the same
value
JS> LB> you as your own?
JS> Probably not...
Not only are you a moron at most times, but now you're proving
that you fall into that typical pre-90s "Russians are pinko
commies" bullshit :)
It's fun to watch you make such statements that are so
contradictory to the laws proscribed in the bible :)
Rod "...very fun, Mr Squirmy!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Pumpkin: What people in Tasmania do.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:05:06
EID:f6b8 218f50a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b35cd2
On 29-07-96 at 23:19, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
JS> RS> You know, if you try to put too many facts into Jimson's head all
at
JS> RS> once, they leak out of his ears. We know, we've tried it. He's
just
JS> RS> a fucking bigot, enough said about that. I hope he has lots of
JS> RS> rebellious children, though . . . };)
JS> Three children: aged 29, 27, 25. They are doing quite well, thankyou...
Are any of them gay, perchance? I'd really like to know if
you've disowned any children for Jeeezus!
Rod "...or killed any for ever ONCE arguing with you, as your
bible commands" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * All general statements are false.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:15:08
EID:2f22 218f51e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b35f2c
On 02-08-96 at 22:54, JIM STAAL wrote to BECKE JONES:
JS> JS> Oh, did I happen to mention I majored in English (with grammar
as my
JS> JS> specialty) in college?
JS> BJ> Dream on, Jim. Grammar is NOT a concentration for an English major
in
JS> BJ> ANY accredited college I've ever heard of. (Literature,
JS> BJ> Communications,
JS> I chose to specialize in it.
But you never completed the degree program, did you Jim? Unlike
the allusion that you drew that you had passed through college
(i.e. received a degree) and majored in English.
JS> BJ> What kind of degree?
JS> Hmmm...don't recall mentioning any degree...
So you flunked out? *ROFL!*
JS> BJ> And what year?
JS> 1965
After ONE SEMESTER or YEAR?
*ROFL*
Did you know that to be a claimant of a "major" in any field at
tertiary level study, you must complete the requirements of the
major field of study?
If you didn't complete the course requirements for a major in
English, then all you can say is that you did a few units which
would have contributed to working toward an English major.
JS> BJ> Until then, I think you're full of shit.
JS> As always, ma'am, think what you like.
So, you would like to summarise your tertiary education AT Calvin
College by answering these, perchance?:
Did you graduate? -- Yes/No
Did you complete all aspects of the requirements for an English major? --
Yes/No
Attempt any units which would have counted toward an English major? -- Yes/No
Completed how many years of college? -- 1/2/3/4/5/6/7
If you did not complete your degree program, why?
Rod "... enquiring minds want to know the clear facts on this one!" Swift
:)
* SLMR 2.1 * Don't drink water, fish f**k in it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:20:10
EID:842c 218f5280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3605a
On 03-08-96 at 12:11, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVID RICE:
JS> DR> Stand on a milk crate and crow
JS> No, you got it all wrong: the _listener_ stands on the milk crate so
he
JS> can be on the same level as myself...
Pride is one of the big sins, Jim. Repent, you sinner! :)
Rod "...repent, or burn, sinner!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:22:12
EID:f6b8 218f52c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b360d4
On 02-08-96 at 23:22, JIM STAAL wrote to CONAN COOPER:
JS> CC> child mortality,
JS> Not my fault, see Roe v Wade...
Abortion statistics are not included in child mortality rates,
Jimbo!
Rod "Did you know that the US now only has TWO of the FIVE
factors that make a nation a third-world nation?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Do unto others as they do unto you. Unless you're BIG.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Schwandt
|Sub: Changing time scales
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:30:14
EID:928a 218f53c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b362b6
On 03-08-96 at 13:21, DOUG SCHWANDT wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER:
DS> I am preparing a paper based on my research with local (Cedar Rapids,
DS> Iowa) fossils. After it is proofread by persons who think more
DS> critically than I, I will make it available to anyone who wishes to
see
DS> it.
I hope you will let the major scientific journals see it. They'd
be very interested in publishing something that was well-sourced
and had proof.
Of course, if any scientific peer comes along and debunks you,
well, that'd be a shame :)
Rod "... did you find any transitional forms in your
investigation that you're not willing to mention? Dated any of
the fossils?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Pumpkin: What people in Tasmania do.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Schwandt
|Sub: Creation theory.
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:40:16
EID:0f9b 218f5500
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36510
On 03-08-96 at 13:43, DOUG SCHWANDT wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER:
DS> KS>Another case of the lying cretinists co-opting a mathematical
DS> KS>concept and applying it to what it doesn't. Entropy is a HEAT
DS> KS>property. It has nothing to do with 'complexity' as you are
DS> KS>claiming.
DS> Not true. The Second Law works on both open and closed systems,
Are you that ignorant, or can you not SPECIFICALLY quote the
maxim of the second law of thermodynamics?
Doesn't it start with "In a closed system..."? :)
Here's a refresher for you:
LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS: any of three principles governing the
relationships between different forms of energy. The FIRST LAW
of thermodynamics (law of conservation of energy) states that the
change in the internal energy of a system is equal to the sum of
the heat added to the system and the work done on it. The SECOND
LAW of thermodynamics states that heat cannot be transferred from
a colder to a hotter body within a CLOSED system without net
change occurring in other bodies within that system; in any
irreversible process, entropy always increases. The THIRD LAW of
thermodynamics (Nernst heat theorem) states that it is impossible
to reduce the temperature of a system to absolute zero in a
finite number of steps.
It is clear that the laws of THERMODYNAMICS have to do with
exactly that: thermo- = heat; -dynamics = changes;
The laws of thermodynamics have no function in any claim made
about creationism.
Rod "...so, you are proven to be a liar, Christoid!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Confucious say: Those who quote me are fools.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Schwandt
|Sub: Always wrong!
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:42:18
EID:1e9c 218f5540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3658a
On 03-08-96 at 09:54, DOUG SCHWANDT wrote to LAURIE APPLETON:
DS> It's not a matter of the evolutionists "getting it right;" it's a matter
DS> of them finding information that cannot be refuted by the true fact
of
DS> Creation.
FACT eh? Creationism is no longer a theorem (it's not even a
scientific theorem) but a natural law?
Hmmm. Would you care to provide the hypothesis, research, and
the conclusions which verify this hypothesis, please?
Please only quote from peer-reviewed scientific journals, and
please present your hypothesis, data design, data collection,
analysis, and research techniques.
Rod "...Evidence... I demand it!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Doug Schwandt
|Sub: Obfuscation
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:49:20
EID:a167 218f5620
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36730
On 03-08-96 at 22:10, DOUG SCHWANDT wrote to ED MILLS:
DS> EM> ED> There is a possibility that the universe was created.
DS> This is a very real possibility. So real, in fact, that we are told
of
DS> it in the Bible.
Where is the scientific evidence to purport this theory?
Creation "scientists" claim to have a proven theory on the origin
of the universe. If they wish to have their claim believed, they
must provide the unequivocable, undeniable SCIENTIFICALLY-discovered
proof of their theory.
That's the onus of these Creation "scientists" if they wish
rational discourse in the sciences -- not through staged debates,
but independent, verifiable research into their crackpot
theories.
I've yet to see one creationist present original research
activities into c-decay, geology or geophysics, genetics,
hydrology, etc, etc, etc.
In fact, most creation "scientists" who actually are qualified in
an area of the sciences seem to *never* make creationist noises
in their learned field, but pick a completely different field to
make ignorant noises in.
There's even the documented case of one Australian scientist (in
Price's "Creation Science Controversy") where he did make
comments about geological age in a certain location -- in two
sources. One was a creation science publication which he claimed
the area to be within young-earth-creationist ages. To a mining
company, he dated the area as being millions of years old.
Such duplicity by a scientist -- someone who knows there is only
one truth, not two, on a unitary thing like age -- shows the
sheer ignorance and *duplicity* of creation "scientists".
So, I challenge you, Mr Scientist-First, to provide proper and
scholarly research into the claims you make and then present them
to the scientific world all over!
DS> EM>ED>There is a possibility that the universe created itself.
DS> This possibility is highly unlikely, since nothing has been observed
to
DS> create itself.
You didn't read about the latest RNA studies in the UK?
Rod "...we demand evidence, idiot savant!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Chicken: The egg's way of making more eggs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Dan Triplett says you ar
|Date: 15 Dec 96 10:54:22
EID:6c80 218f56c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3685e
On 02-08-96 at 22:26, RICHARD SMITH wrote to STYX ALLUM:
RS> KS>There is. And he ain't you. Butt out.
RS> DT> Since the moderator here is also a moron I think Ill stick
RS> ....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RS> c/Ill/I'll
RS> This is the Xtian charm that I find so refreshing . . .
I just get satisfaction from hearing the ground burn marks onto
their asses as their ass is skidded out of here faster than you
can say: "Jesus will save me from you!" :) :)
Jesus can't save ANYONE from Mr Styx's quite mighty throwing from
the echo :)
Rod "... and then they go whine in another echo about us Godless
heathens, it's SO FUN to watch!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * A closed mouth gathers no feet.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: prison diet
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:02:24
EID:22fd 218f5840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36a40
On 02-08-96 at 12:20, QUENTIN FAI wrote to DAN CEPPA:
QF> A friend of mine dragged me into a mormon seminary class (kinda like
sunday
QF> school, only every day) and I learned that apparently, there's this
one site
QF> across the street from mormon HQ that the church wants to buy because
the
QF> original temple originally extended there. However, the owners aren't
LDS,
QF> and they won't sell it unless god himself tells them to.
QF> I'd love to buy that plot of land and open a bar there.
Spite them good... Open a GAY BAR there :)
Rod "...and watch them SPIN" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * All general statements are false.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: prison diet
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:18:26
EID:3818 218f5a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36e02
On 03-08-96 at 19:46, DAN CEPPA wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG:
DC> ML> Don't forget the fundy-owned-n-operated "Chick-Fil-Aye".
DC> ML> Jack Chick, one would presume.
DC> Sounds rather stringy and tasteless.
DC> ML> I boycott them like I boycott ClanMcVirus.
DC> I boycott Dogma-noes for the same reason.
We also have to boycott Wendys -- thinking of Dave from Wendy's
being a Christian Coalition supporter just makes me PYOOK!
Rod "...thinking of him in drag, on the other hand, makes anyone
puke :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:24:28
EID:0900 218f5b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36f6c
On 04-08-96 at 01:43, ROB BURCHAM wrote to J.J. HITT:
RB> Chatting has it's attractions and some are quite good at it.
RB> After visiting IRC, I have a new appreciation for rapier wits
RB> such as Styx and Lynda.
Will someone please give me a reference to whether it is on
EFnet, Dalnet or Undernet?
Email pls :) to rod@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
Rod
* SLMR 2.1 * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sam
|Sub: bible
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:26:30
EID:f3f4 218f5b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b36fe6
On 04-08-96 at 12:09, SAM wrote to LUKE CLARK:
SA> LC> The Soviets problem wasn't Communism, but Socialism (The Second
'S'
SA> LC> in USSR).The only flaw in Communism is that human
SA> LC> greed screws it up.
SA> the USSR, no matter *what* they called themselves, were *never* socialist.
Please do show us your degree with a major in political sciences,
specialising in Eastern European studies.
If not, shut up, ignoramus :)
Rod "... bingo, loser!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Programmers get overlaid!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:35:32
EID:2e6f 218f5c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b37204
On 03-08-96 at 10:14, RICHARD SMITH wrote to JIM STAAL:
RS> It's not a tag line, Jimson. It's a signature file that is
RS> automatically affixed to my posts. A tag line usually
RS> appears AFTER the signature of the person involved. And
RS> it's only redundant because it has the word `will' twice .
RS> . .
Actually, and Jim the English "major" should know this, there is
no redundancy.
The words "will" and "will-depleting" are completely different.
Now if it were "To plan, will, and NOT DO depletes will"
then there'd be redundancy :)
Rod "...an English major" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:38:34
EID:dfe0 218f5cc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b372ba
On 03-08-96 at 10:39, RICHARD SMITH wrote to JIM STAAL:
RS> JS> Three children: aged 29, 27, 25. They are doing quite well,
RS> JS> thankyou...
RS> Two boys and a girl?
Maybe they are three slugs...? Oh, no, slugs are hermaphroditic.
Strike that question! :)
Maybe they are knuckledragging baboons. As they say, like father
like son... :)
Rod "... rofl!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Do unto others as they do unto you. Unless you're BIG.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Who left the screen door
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:42:36
EID:12ad 218f5d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b373ac
On 03-08-96 at 14:21, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL:
RS> Bendigaid ALL!
RS> Okay, I was just checking, and it looks like we suddenly
RS> have a plethora of Laurie clones. Who left the screen door
RS> open?
And they are using the same CSF-style or ICR-style canned quotes.
It's time we got together a collaborative effort to write a
website to debunk each and every one of these canned quotes.
I'm willing to do the website publishing!
Rod "...how about it?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Now where's the "Kick me" sign for Mike Benjamin's back?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Consensus Not Scientific
|Date: 15 Dec 96 11:46:38
EID:a9f9 218f5dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3749e
On 04-08-96 at 04:35, J.J. HITT wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
JH> JB> Got a picture around here somewhere of a chihuahua mating
JH> JB> with a great dane. (The chi was the male)
JH> Can you post it?
JH> It sounds like the most appropriate Windows wallpaper I've
JH> heard of yet.
I have pictures of the Grey Council from B5 :)
Rod "... I then dream of it being the Zionist Holysmoke
Conspiracy (tm)" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * The foolish and dead alone never change their opinion!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: 1 Peter 1:25 (NKJV)
|Date: 15 Dec 96 12:02:40
EID:1bc8 218f6040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b37860
On 04-08-96 at 13:34, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to LEONARD BERNIER:
KW> Top 10 Reasons Why Beer Is Better Than Jesus
KW> 10. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.
[...deleted...]
KW> 1. If you've devoted your life to Beer, there are groups to help you
stop.
KW> ---Steve Berry of Texas A&M's Agnostic and Atheist Student Group
I like Texas A&M. They have some really fun people in their
computing centre. Have a look at the machine names:
atheist.tamu.edu
anarchy.tamu.edu
freethought.tamu.edu
etc...etc.. :)
And have a look at some of the webstuff they have there. They
are host of the "Freethought Web" :)
Rod "...am I detecting someone who is attempting to piss of the
evangelical online Christers at TAMU?" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * For sale. Iraqi rifles. Never fired. Dropped once!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 15 Dec 96 12:46:42
EID:4628 218f65c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b382b2
On 05-08-96 at 23:24, J.J. HITT wrote to SAM:
JH> The Branch Davidians were also buying large quantities of
JH> black powder, igniter cord, powdered magnesium and aluminum,
JH> potassium nitrate, sulfuric and nitric acids, as well as
JH> large quantities of more germain materials like baking soda
JH> and diatomateous earth.
JH> It's bloody obvious what they had in mind.
Hmmm. Diatomaceous earth. Pool party? :)
Rod "...kerbang!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * There's always one more bug.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 15 Dec 96 16:20:44
EID:dfe0 218f8280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3b4dc
On 05-08-96 at 07:17, RICHARD SMITH wrote to JIM STAAL:
RS> };> Jim Staal wrote in a message to Richard Smith: <:(
RS> JS> Three children: aged 29, 27, 25. They are doing quite well,
RS> JS> thankyou...
RS> RS> Two boys and a girl?
RS> JS> Actually, the two older ones are girls. The youngest is a
RS> JS> boy.
RS> No grandchildren yet?
Maybe his children have done the socially-responsible thing and
promised each other to never breed -- for the sake of the human
gene pool :)
Rod "...we can only hope!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * An oyster is a fish built like a nut.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: 1 Peter 1:25 (NKJV) [O
|Date: 15 Dec 96 16:31:46
EID:827f 218f83e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3b772
On 05-08-96 at 07:45, RICHARD SMITH wrote to MOSHE SHULMAN:
RS> I became more sensitive to the tribulations of the Jews after reading
the
RS> works of Carlo Ginzburg, in which he notes that, especially
RS> during the Middle Ages, that the Jews are almost always in
RS> the mix for persecutions. Apparently, the Xtians go after
RS> the lepers first, then the Jews, and then heretics and
RS> Pagans. He almost nails it down as a repeatable trend. So
RS> naturally, being a Pagan, it puts me in the same boat as
RS> you and the other Jews.
RS> Persecution makes strange bedfellows, doesn't it?
I'd say that universal maxim which you have quoted above may have
been updated for modern times. You see, lepers can be treated,
and Jews can't really be first on the line for persecution due to
the horrendous past -- they've been moved further down the line
I'd suspect.
The heretics category has been expanded to include not only
pagans, but anyone heretical to Christianity -- basically a huge
xenophobia against non-Christians. Added to the heretics are the
atheists, agnostics, gays, and people who disagree with biblical
teachings (pro-abortion people, for example).
The history of Christian persecution follows closely along the
lines of "if they aren't like me, I can persecute them".
However, the only parameter that changes is the popularity of the
persecuted parties. In today's parameters, the unpopular
persecutees are Jews and people of colour.
Rod "... but that's why the price of freedom is eternal
vigilance" Swift
:)
* SLMR 2.1 * Mud thrown is ground lost.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mike Melia
|Sub: Re: New Start
|Date: 15 Dec 96 16:46:48
EID:d273 218f85c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3baf8
On 06-08-96 at 11:19, MIKE MELIA wrote to GLEN TODD:
MM> What I fail to comprehend is when did believing in God and the Bible
MM> become such a crime. (Used crime from lack of a better word.) Worse
MM> yet, mention Hell, and watch out!
Because, dear boy, so many billions of people have suffered
persecution at the hands of Christians over the past 1500 years.
I have one friend who is ashamed to call himself a Christian, due
to the fact that other Christians persecute me -- and he does not
want to be associated with them.
Most average Christians are ashamed, for example, of the
religious political extremists of the right wing.
And of course it's turned into a "crime" (for lack of better
word) because the Christian religion has been used to oppress
people under rule of law. When that happens, unjustly, the only
justice that can compensate is the punishment of the doctrine
that creates the injustice.
I'm sure that if Christians were *all* nice, tolerant, loving and
understanding -- it would not be such a socially criminal thing
to be one.
Rod "... go figure!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Dance is thought mad by those who can't hear the music.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Gays And The Church
|Date: 15 Dec 96 16:52:50
EID:ea62 218f8680
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3bc62
On 06-08-96 at 15:01, DON MARTIN wrote to CARL FORTUNATO:
DM> CF> Amazingly enough, Scalia dissented, and called the Colorado law
DM> CF> constitutional. Did you read his opinion? I seriously question
the
DM> CF> man's sanity.
DM> CF> BTW, I missed the Oregon legislation. Care to fill me in?
DM> I believe it was a statute to the effect that localities
DM> may ban homosexual civic participation ad lib; it is now in
DM> abeyance whilst working its way through the courts. If I am
DM> in error, Marilyn Burge will be kind enough to correct me
DM> from Portland.
I believe the Oregon ballot measures have all consistently
failed. And probably will fail over and over again given the
Supreme Court decision in Romer v Evans.
However, there are ballot measures in Maine and Vermont, I
believe, slated for 1997.
I can find more details for you...
Rod "...news-hound" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Schizophrenia beats being alone.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:00:52
EID:ea90 218f8800
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3be44
On 05-08-96 at 12:28, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> WOBBLY KNEES
That's it! George Mooth posts when he's pissed!
Rod "...pissed, of course, meaning drunk! :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Try to be the best you are, even if that is not good.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Crash goes your bullshit
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:01:54
EID:a864 218f8820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3be82
On 06-08-96 at 16:27, J.J. HITT wrote to JIM STAAL:
JH> SA> One thing I have been pondering is that I cannot remember when
JH> SA> Janet Reno actually became Attorney General. I seem to recall
JH> SA> that it may have been after the original BATF mess-up that
JH> SA> started the whole mess, but I was wondering if you remembered
JH> SA> this little tidbit of history? It could certainly put a spin on
JH> SA> Jimbo's claims...
JH> -= THANK YOU! =-
JH> I should have thought of this myself.
JH> Reno took the oath of office MARCH 12th!
JH> The failed raid occured on February 28th.
It's obvious that the previous AG was a RENO PUPPET!
Rod "...big dittos, Rush, from Staal-land!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Mariner's Wife's Shower Law: I before 'e 'cept after sea.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:06:56
EID:ea90 218f88c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3bfb0
On 25-07-96 at 11:24, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> MAKING JESUS INTO AN IDOL
I thought idolatry was sin!
GM> Be careful. Devotion to a false Jesus is idolatry.
There are many Jesii? How does one tell one Jesus from other
Jesii? Is that why some people say 'Jesus H Christ'? Are
different Jesii distinguishable by their middle initial...?
GM> WE ARE MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE -
GM> HE IS NOT TO BE MADE IN OURS.
So that explains it. For years I thought God was made in man's
image.
Rod "...Anyway, if Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish
name? :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:10:58
EID:ea90 218f8940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c0a2
On 26-07-96 at 12:12, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> NOW - OR LATER
Or in your case, George, never. I value my sperm production and
don't share it with just *any* man :)
GM> In Judges 1, we learn that the Canaanite king Adoni-Bezek was
GM> among the more fortunate in this respect. In keeping with the
GM> cruelty of his day, he had cut off the thumbs and big toes of 70
GM> captured kings. But then the tables were turned. The
GM> Israelites captured Adoni-Bezek and cut off his big toes and
GM> thumbs.
Who cut off the thumbs and big toe of the Israelites?
GM> If you see yourself reaping the consequences of your sins,
GM> stop the self-destructive cycle.
I certainly enjoy reaping the consequences of my "sins" :)
GM> Make the most of the rest of your life by running back to the
GM> open arms of the Lord.
If Jesus loves me, why does he never send flowers?
GM> PRESENT CHOICES DETERMINE FUTURE REWARDS.
What future reward do you expect to gain by posting here? Surely
not our conversion! *slaps side of own face with hands in shock
and horror of the thought*
Rod "...you honestly think we're redeemable? And if so, is it
for a free McBurger?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * If Jesus loves me, why does he never send flowers?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:13:00
EID:ea90 218f89a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c11c
On 27-07-96 at 11:23, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> PROTECTING THE HURTING
... by hurting them more. Christianity -- the same yesterday,
today, and forever -- harmful to children, the weak, the infirm,
those of different religions, and humanity in general!
GM> Our experience with Steven's tooth reminds me of how we should
GM> protect the people in our churches who have been damaged by life.
By ripping off their meagre savings, or sapping their emotional
strength!
GM> Like an injured child, hurting people need protection. Let's
GM> make sure they get it from the church.
Screw you. All the church wants is more money, of course, and by
sucking up to the weak and infirm and hurt -- we can get more
money out of them.
GM> WHAT CONCERNS ONE CHILD OF GOD
GM> CONCERNS THE WHOLE FAMILY OF GOD.
Except, of course, when it's a priest raping little kids. If
it's that, the church makes the whole church family cover their
priest's god-forsaken ass!
Rod "...and what about all those kids raped by the church's
ministers? Should they be forced to be protected by their church
too?" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * !nekorb si medom ym kniht I
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:15:02
EID:ea90 218f89e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c196
On 28-07-96 at 12:38, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> LEAPING WITH JOY
I'm sure Joy will be wearing a parachute, because she's an
atheist... You, on the other hand, will be placing your faith in
the personal intervention by the Hand of God(tm) :)
GM> CHILDLIKE FAITH FOCUSES ON OUR HEAVENLY FATHER,
GM> NOT ON OUR FEARS.
So you admit the Christian faith is one for child-like minds? No
wonder most people grow out of it -- or alternatively -- most
people need to be born again to *keep* the faith after reality
shatters their beliefs :)
Rod "...I wanted to be born again, but my mother said NO!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Don't rush me. I get paid by the hour.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:16:04
EID:ea90 218f8a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c1d4
On 29-07-96 at 12:04, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> GOOD ENOUGH?
Yep. My sex life is adequate...
Rod "...are you saving your anal virginity for Jesus, Moothy?" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Hey you! Are you Mr Dodo?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:18:06
EID:ea90 218f8a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c24e
On 30-07-96 at 13:15, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> SCATTERED TO SERVE
Scattered? In the brain department?
GM> Saul hated Christians.
Praise Saul!
GM> A SMALL LIGHT CAN DISPEL GREAT DARKNESS.
That's just such a *smurfy* feeling!
I note a small light placed on the illogical and stupid nature of
the Christian belief system manages to dissolve most of the
potential "new meat" from being suckered in to Jeeeezus!
Rod "... hand me the flashlight!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Don't play stupid with me! I'm better at it.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:21:08
EID:ea90 218f8aa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c304
On 31-07-96 at 17:14, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> BEYOND INFORMATION
Yes, the bible is beyond being information, but truly it is in
the realms of fiction.
GM> YOU CAN GET KNOWLEDGE IN COLLEGE
GM> BUT WISDOM COMES FROM GOD.
Wisdom comes not from God, but from free minds. That's why there
are many wiser who aren't Christians and who never would be!
Rod "...wisdom comes from learning of life, not of some magical
belief in an imaginary superfriend, or by reading the
superfriend's allegedly holy book once and then forgetting
anything wise within it's covers" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Reality is a crutch for people who can't face drugs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:22:10
EID:ea90 218f8ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c342
On 01-08-96 at 11:31, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> OUR GREATEST COMFORT IN SORROW
GM> IS TO KNOW THAT JESUS LIVES.
But Jesus died. No, now he's risen. No.. Oh, how confusing.
Can you guys just choose if he's dead, living, or whatever?
And me "find Jesus"? What, is he lost again?
Someone give him a fucking map and compass already!
Rod "... it's more confusing than the trinity :) :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * I don't have any solution, but I admire the problem.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Purchasing Agent
|Date: 15 Dec 96 17:25:12
EID:f779 218f8b20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b3c3f8
On 06-08-96 at 14:50, JASON HARMON wrote to MARILYN BURGE:
JH> -=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to All <=-
JH> MB> Who's in charge of purchasing around here? We seem to have gotten
a
JH> MB> particularly defective batch of fundies in this last shipment.
JH> Al Schroeder's departure has left a large void. And Holy