God Damned Fundies!
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Dec 96 10:33:00
EID:d432 21925420
December 19 Thursday
HOPE BEYOND HOPE
Read: Jeremiah 17:1-8
Blessed is the man who trusts
in the Lord, and whose hope
is the Lord. -Jeremiah 17:7
The English poet Alexander Pope wrote, "Hope springs
eternal in the human breast: Man never is, but always to
be blest." But where does man turn when hope dries up?
The director of a medical clinic told of a terminally
ill young man who came in for his usual treatment. A
new doctor who was on duty said to him casually and
cruelly, "You know don't you, that you won't live out
the year?"
As the young man left, he stopped by the director's
desk and wept. "That man took away my hope," he blurted
out.
"I guess he did," replied the director. "Maybe it's
time to find a new one."
Commenting on this, Lewis Smedes wrote, "Is there a
hope when hope is taken away? Is there hope when the
situation is hopeless? That question leads us to
Christian hope, for in the Bible, hope is no longer a
passion for the possible. It becomes a passion for the
promise."
When our expectation is rooted in God and in His Son
Jesus Christ as our Savior from sin and death, the
blessing that Alexander Pope says we are always looking
for becomes a present reality. Because God is the God
of hope (Rom. 15:13), He alone keeps hope flowing when
its springs dry up in the human breast.
-Dennis J. De Haan
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name. -Mote
THE SECRET OF COPING
IS HOPING IN GOD.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:49:00
EID:d432 21935e20
December 20 Friday
THANKS FOR INCONVENIENCE
Read: Luke 2:1-7
Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for
He is good! -Psalm 118:29
Thanking God for the good things He has given us comes
pretty easy. But thanking Him for an enduring
"inconvenience" can be difficult.
Moira MacLachlan (a pen name) experienced a
shattering and life-altering event when she was raped
and became pregnant. Because of her decision to raise
the child, there would be a daily reminder of this
violent disruption of life.
Moira cautiously likens her situation to Mary's
unexpected pregnancy. She writes, "This world considers
any disruption of its thoroughly detailed preparation
for a life of convenience a rational excuse for
unbridled anguish and rebellion. To [the world], the
thankful prayer I raise to God for the radical explosion
that took place in my life is akin to insanity. The
disruptions in the plans of Mary and me served to bring
us both to the same conclusion: Sometimes God's purpose
in shattering the peace in our lives is to remind us
that He has a purpose for everything." Moira thanks God
for her beautiful child, and concludes, "Don't pray for
a life of convenience, you might get it - and wouldn't
that be too bad?"
If you're enduring a long-term "inconvenience,"
consider thanking God for what He has taught you through
it.
-David C. Egner
I thank You, Lord, for bitter things,
They've been a friend of grace;
They've driven me from paths of ease
To seek the Father's face. -Anon.
MAKE FRIENDS WITH YOUR TRIALS,
AND YOU WILL LEARN FROM THEM.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
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þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 20 Dec 96 11:30:00
EID:d432 21945bc0
December 21 Saturday
WHY DOES IT MATTER?
Read: James 3:1-11
I said, "I will guard my ways,
lest I sin with my tongue.
-Psalm 39:1
As I watched a network TV news magazine explore the
growing use of foul language in America, I was pleased
to see that someone had noticed the problem. With TV
itself contributing to the growing use of swearing and
profanity, it was surprising to see the subject
addressed. But when the newsman finished his report,
his comments revealed a common opinion. He concluded,
"It's jut words. What does it hurt?"
If we base what we do in this world on personal
opinions, that conclusion is as good as any other. But
we can't do that. We must use a standard greater than
ourselves. For believers in Jesus Christ, that standard
is the Bible.
According to God's Word, and out of love for Him, the
words we use should be chosen carefully. First, we must
never use God's name in any way that irreverently
addresses Him or disrespectfully speaks of Him (Ex.
20:7). Second, our tongue should be used for blessing
others, not cursing them (Jas. 3:10). And third, no
corrupt language should pass through our lips (Eph.
4:29).
Why should we avoid bad language? Because God says we
should keep our words pure. And it pleases Him when we
obey.
-J. David Branon
Lord, help us to control our tongues,
To clean up what we say,
To use words that will edify,
To honor You today. -Sper
CHILDREN OF THE KING
SHOULD USE THE LANGUAGE OF THE COURT.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:27:00
EID:d432 21955b60
December 22 Sunday
NO OTHER NAME
Read: Isaiah 9:1-7
There is no other name under
heaven given among men by
which we must be saved.
-Acts 4:12
The angel announced to Joseph, "You shall call His
name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins"
(Mt. 1:21).
The name Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew word
Joshua, which is a contraction of two words, Jehovah and
Hoshea, which means "God the Savior" or "Savior God."
This is His name. This is the name which is above
every name, and the name of the only One who can save
us. No one can take His place or approach God without
Him.
We respect the names of the patriarchs of the Bible
and the godly men and women of more recent history, but
everyone will one day bow before Jesus (Phil. 2:9-11).
Even His own mother acknowledged her need of a Savior
(Lk. 1:37). Jesus alone is the mediator between God
and man (1 Tim. 2:5-6).
Yes, we honor godly men and women of the Bible. And
we give due respect to those who throughout history have
faithfully lived for Christ and proclaimed the gospel.
But we are not to worship them or pray to them. Jesus
alone is the One whose name means "Savior." He is the
Son of God, of whom Isaiah proclaimed, "His name will be
called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting
Father, Prince of Peace" (9:6).
-M.R. De Haan, M.D.
My heart is stirred whene'er I think of Jesus,
That blessed Name which sets the captive free;
The only Name through which I find salvation;
No name on earth has meant so much to me. -Eliason
FOR TIME AND ETERNITY, JESUS IS ALL WE NEED.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:07
EID:82d8 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 21907528
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi David!
Re:
DR>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
DR>He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact that it
DR>is Christian-like to kill.
Help me. Where did you find that?
Thank you
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ In, not of, in, not of, in, not of, in...
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
* Origin: The Classic BBS * Upper Darby, PA, USA * 610-394-9392 (1:273/416)
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|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Christianity #1 of 6
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:08
EID:88ba 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 21907529
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi David!
I said:
DR>CH> Christian's are notorious for being descriminated
DR>CH> against.
You brought up:
DR>LIFE IN OUR ANTI-CHRISTIAN AMERICA
DR>Compiled by Robby Berry
DR>Copyright (c) Internet Infidels 1996. All rights reserved.
(much deleted)
DR>I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into the open.
DR>The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions.
DR>Consider:
DR> 1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that
DR>Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
George is not an elected Christian spokesman. His statement is
acceptable to me. Christianity has little to do with patriotism. As for
citizenship, they identify with being "not of this world". Of course, we
reside for now in various countries. American, Canadian, French... is
secondary to being a Christian.
DR> 2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local
DR>churches.
Better to give speeches to the more easily confused!
DR> 3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians.
DR>The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists as
DR>Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the
DR>Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther
DR>King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks
DR>on all forms of Christianity.
Huh?
I deleted many of the items, because they were apparently "tongue-in
cheek" comments, without merit. But:
DR> 11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian priests
DR>as they were going to work in their churches. Similarly, atheists are
DR>well known for blockading churches on Sunday mornings.
Actually true. The priests (and other missionaries) killed were
primarily in "third world" countries, but the problems at churches has
been occuring in this country. Primarily "gays", which may or may not be
atheist.
DR> 13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the
DR>Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court
DR>cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who
DR>insisted on swearing on a Bible.
If you knew the Bible's instruction on oaths, you would know why
Christians often "affirm", and will not "swear".
DR> 14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but
DR>those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will be
DR>politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
The second part is true in some public schools, and some industry.
DR> 15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly
DR>impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as
DR>Christmas.
Right! Many stores require employees (sales clerks, cash register
operators, food service, drug stores... etc.) to work, to get more last
minute sales. Another problem day for many is "Good Friday". This day
has more meaning for most Christians than does Christmas, but is
recognized by few employers.
DR> 16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that
DR>pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people
DR>say "Darwin bless you". Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common
DR>cussword.
In the "yes/no" column, the writer got this right, but for the wrong
reasons. Saying "bless you" is based on superstition, and recognizes
"evil spirits". Christianity does not support superstition.
David, most of these writings were not on target considering the topic,
but I read them all, smiled on some, and thought about others as they
relate to my own experiences.
Concerning descriminating against Christians, there is much that goes on
that does not make the "news" you listen to. Missionaries are killed,
tortured, jailed, in parts of the world. This is only because others
fear what they teach. I am not aware of those without "theism" being
killed, tortured, or jailed for being a-thiestic. This certainly did
happen in the distant past, I acknowledge.
Modern issue: two years ago my son wanted to start a Bible Study Club at
High School. About a dozen others wanted to meet during a "free" period
that other clubs met, or others yet simply had study halls.
At first the school said: "Fine. Get a Sponsor, and a room to meet."
He found both. The school librarian was a Christian, was happy to be a
sponsor, and had authority over a room attached to the library.
The school then told the librarian that she better not volunteer for
this, because the school should have no involvement with "religion".
So we had a "Catch 22". A Sponsor must be found, but a Sponsor was not
permitted.
Then the Club members were told:
they could only meet after school hours.
they had to get proof of liability insurance.
they would miss the school bus ride home.
they had to fill out an application as an "outside group".
they had to face two school lawyers for approval.
No other (minus-theism) clubs had this descrimination!
The kids quickly got a 100 signature petition supporting the right of
this club to meet just like the other clubs, but no budge.
It took a few months, and a private attorney, to convince the school
that this descrimination was illegal.
No other clubs had to go through this.
Also... though the Bible Study Club was open to ALL, Christian and non-
Christian alike, certain other clubs did limit membership:
Some clubs were for girls, or guys, only.
One club was for "people of color" only.
In some, you had to sing, or play a musical instrument.
The Christian did not descriminate against ANY. Though they were
descriminated against. BTW - this is a common situation around the
country.
Love
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ I surrendered.
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
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|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:08
EID:2cd9 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 2190752a
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi Mimi!
I said:
MM>CH> As for classifying me, I hate no one.
You said:
MM>Good! Now defend Luther's anti-semitism, please
I am not Lutheran, and so, do not represent that particular faith, or
any of it's individuals. But Luther did have a lot of good points.
If you want to pick on Luther, I hear he was quite obnoxious among his
contemporaries, and could even be nasty. I also heard he drank a bit
much at times.
As for defending anti-semitism... I won't!
I have a very soft heart for Jewish heritage, and I too, hurt with their
suffering.
Love
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ I surrendered.
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
* Origin: The Classic BBS * Upper Darby, PA, USA * 610-394-9392 (1:273/416)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:49:29
EID:99a2 21967e20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7283b139
The following is from the Protevangelion of James, an apocryphal
gospel which was quoted as authoratative by a number of the early
Church Fathers.
14:13 Then the midwife cried out, and said, How glorious a day is
this , wherein mine eyes have seen this extraordinary sight!
14:14 And the midwife went out from the cave, and Salome met her.
14:15 And the midwife said to her, Salome, Salome, I will tell you
a most suprising thing which I saw,
14:16 A virgin hath brought forth, which is a thing contrary to
nature.
14:17 To which Salome replied, As the Lord my God liveth, unless
I receive particular proof of this matter, I will not
believe that a virgin hath brought forth.
14:18 Then Salome went in, and the midwife said, Mary, shew thyself
for a great controversy is risen concerning thee.
14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:45:54
EID:50f7 219465a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb5
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a680
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marilyn and Fredric were killing time yakking about End Times are upon us!
Again. And again. And again.:
mb> They are required to have a year's supply of food so they can
mb> care for their family in case of a calamity of any kind (i.e.,
mb> prolonged unemployment, nuclear attack, famine, debilitating
mb> physical conditions, etc.).
FR> My family was told that the "end times" was almost upon us and at that
FR> time Mormons wouldn't be able to buy food or get water unless they
FR> "accepted the mark." To address that fictional problem, they
FR> concocted the excuse of selling food, water, and survivalist equipment
FR> to members.
FR> Now the Mormon cult houses I was dragged into might have been
FR> different ideologically or different in their methodology for selling
FR> the stuff yet you can't say that what I was told isn't used as a
FR> reason. It most certainly is.
I recall hearing that as, at least, the "official" reason....but my ex-roomie,
also a mormon, was more inclined to see it practically, as a means to be
secure during a crisis or emergency.
No Mormon-purchased "survivalist" gear that I knew of...but there was the
wheat, the canned goods, candles, blankets (old ones, not bought from the
LDS
church).
In fact, as a pair of single moms on a VERY limitted income, we dipped into
the food stash more than once and made sure to keep it replenished. I
don't
get as organized about it as she was, but i still feel far more secure knowing
i have food in the house. And military families overseas are told to keep
a
"go-bag" packed with a limited version of the same - about a weeks worth
of
haulable supplies/food that can be grabbed on short notice in case of a
bug out.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ ...And in atonement thou must supply pizza and sin again
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 20 Dec 96 18:23:28
EID:f11e 219492e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb6
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 72601bd2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and J.J. were killing time yakking about CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE:
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
JH> I don't know if that's FAQ material or not...
JH> But I'm going to be giggling over it for at least a week.
hehe...so are we, dear, so are we....
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "We met in church... she was cleanin' it and I was robbin' it."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:17:30
EID:d902 21958220
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb7
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32baf062
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Michael and Steve were killing time yakking about purpose and ethics:
JJ>> Your demands for evidence make you just another fundamentalist,
JJ>> Stevie.
SQ> His inability to back what he says makes -him- a Fundamentalist.
MH> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations suggest you know you
MH> have none.
SQ> Am I being defended by -another- Michael Hardy from
SQ> Alabama? :)
(G) nope.
"There can be only one..."
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:25:48
EID:1e28 21958320
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb8
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A57E814
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Judith were killing time yakking about ask and ye shall rece:
AS> start one of our own. (#irc, despite recent forays where I had
AS> everybody challenging me on why we think God exists...nothing like
AS> being the lone person in a big argument, ENORMOUS fun...really doesn't
AS> lend itself to SERIOUS discussion as well as this medium.)
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
LOL!!
Touche.
It's MUCH harder to baffle 'em with bullshit when they don't have to wait
2
days and 1000 messages between responses.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Oh, blasphemer," said Pooh, to the heathen who debunked his arguments
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:37:40
EID:6481 219584a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb9
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
STEVE and DAVID were killing time yakking about FAQ!:
DR> After the helicopter BOMBED the shopping center with
DR> turkeys, Herb, Andy, and the Big Guy gather in the
DR> office, shocked and dismayed. After a long moment of
DR> silence, Herb said he thought turkeys could fly.
DR> I loved that show!
(G) Me too...except...
I'm almost *positive* it was the Big Guy himself that delivered the final
punchline...
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ A turkey roast is a foul ball...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: [1/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:16:55
EID:6356 21959a00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fba
REPLY: 1:225/364.4@FidoNet 4b1b1ddc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 1 of 2...
ALL and John were killing time yakking about HOLYSMOKE:
JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ> by no longer posting here.
LOL! Taking your marbles and going home, huh?
JJ> There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ> or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
is
JJ> only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only reason
Mmmm...no, it is to ridicule and malign anyone of any ilk that decides to
push their unevidenced OPINIONS on others and insist they have the right
to
do so without refute. In the case of those proposing LEGAL requirements
to
act as though one agreed with those opinions, they are dealt with harshly.
If it seems that Christians are the sole target to you, that is perhaps
due
to the fact that so MUCH of Christian opinion includes the justification
for
and indeed, a MANDATE, to push those views and claim that detrimental effects
on them in THIS life are unimportant.
As to maligning Christ - what makes you assume that they buy into that as
a
legitimate title for the man who may or may not have existed a couple thousand
years ago? One cannot malign what they do not believe in...certainly not
by
pointing out that they don't believe it. Or do you 'malign' the Easter Bunny
and Santa Claus?
JJ> the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the roasting and
JJ> ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of dialogue or
JJ> debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and arrogant for
Oh, but there are many here who engage in both dialogue AND debate. If you
have not found it, it's because you have failed to offer anything worthy
of
either one. Be real, now...what you are saying is that they won't begin,
as
you do, with an ASSUMPTION of the validity of Christ and work from there...
they make you TRULY start from scratch, and you aren't used to having to
think from outside the parameters of your faith.
JJ> the most part. To continue posting and "debating" with them is
JJ> tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction. To
JJ> continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to
JJ> "cast your pearls before swine".
And yet....you just HAD to to post this longish complaint letter to try
to get
the last word in...do you think you CAN quit? If so, why didn't you just
quit
downloading packets and shut up? And why, if YOU no longer wish to participate,
do you desire to try to convince other believers into marching out with
you?
Such a herd mentality!
JJ> Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ> presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
No, he doesn't. Jesse has no desire to touch these hellbound hearts. Like
many, he is here because it provides a place to say those things that would
not be "pretty" if said in our daily lives.
JJ> will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ> your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ> them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ> them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant and
JJ> "persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ> of credence by HolySmokers.
Christian tolerance = pronouncing the eternal damnation of those who disagree
with you...repeatedly? It included telling someone that their actions and
motives are worthless if not in accord with what one's own ego says is
worthwhile? Interesting.
JJ> ALL CHRISTIANS UNITE....no longer post here...let the word be spread
JJ> through all the echoes...to all brothers and sisters...that henceforth
JJ> Christians will no longer post to HOLYSMOKE....and by doing so we will
JJ> bring about the demise of the beast that is devoted to bringing about
JJ> the downfall of the followers of Jesus...if such a thing were
Wow. Bet the Holy Spirit was just coursing right THRU you while you typed
that! How ponderous can you get?
(PS: Note to Sean...PLEASE FAQ that statement of his!)
JJ> possible:-). After weeks or months of complaining to each other,
JJ> without any individuals to ridicule, they will eventually go the way
JJ> of the DoDo.
But, God sends us new fundies on a regular basis....the supply shows no
signs
of diminishing.
And between times, we always have the Colorado crowd! hehe
JJ> What say all, can we do it....I think we can if we spread
>>> Continued to next message...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:17:20
EID:a053 21959a20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fbb
REPLY: 1:225/364.4@FidoNet 4b1b1ddc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 2 of 2...
No, I don't think you can...it's been a long running matter of discussion
about what leads you all to come in and stay. Psychologically, there is
a
certain type of "Believe or burn" christian that NEEDS Holysmoke.
JJ> the word through whatever means is available. What a challenge! Can
we
JJ> topple the "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year. Really think
JJ> about it. WE CAN DO IT! Let the only messages we post here promote
Hehe...oh, PLEASE spread the word far and wide...this will be fun.
Yes, such "boycotts" have always worked SO well for you....I've seen many
a
mediocre movie turn into blockbusters due only curiousity about what the
big
deal was. And in THIS case, you will attract more of the rabid fundies we
love
so well...
JJ> this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or his
JJ> teachings....their hearts have been hardened, and their eyes have been
JJ> blinded. To continue to post "Jesus" is to "cast your pearls before
JJ> the swine"...."shake the dust off your sandals and move on!"
And yet, you aren't actually proposing anything so sensible as "moving on",
are you?
JJ> There are many other message areas where one can spread the word,
JJ> where one is at least tolerated without such ridicule and contempt as
Exactly. So why are you here? Spread the word where it already is accepted.
If "the word" doesn't hold up to the scrutiny of those who don't automagically
accept it as truth before you open your mouth, though, you might want to
question WHY..
JJ> is displayed here. The only reason nonbelievers post here is to take
JJ> part in the "stoning" of believers. Let us all...of all denominations
:) Thank you for confirming one of the reasons we've suspected....a desire
for martyrdom.
JJ> and none...from the Catholics...to the pentecostals...the
JJ> Baptists...the Anglicans..the Steve Winters...the Latter Day
JJ> Saints...the Mormans...all who I have failed to mention...let us all
JJ> cease and desist from posting here, except to spread the same
JJ> message....Christians...of all stripes...people of all denominations
JJ> and religions....get out! Do not post here any longer...do not become
JJ> a whipping boy/girl for these anti-god people!
Ooooh....Spirit gotcha again. Do you think all sing-songy while you type
this
stuff?
JJ> After years of reading and posting here....I have come to the
Years? YEARS?? Oh, I DO want to know what held YOU so long...I suspect you'll
never take a serious look into that...it would be most uncomfortable for
you.
No, dear. You won't leave.. you won't stay away long. You NEED Holysmoke.
JJ> tolerance here, from those who regularly attack religion. They are
JJ> unbending, unyielding and unobjective, with no real interest in the
JJ> concept of God, and are only concerned with baiting believers and
JJ> doing their best to make fools of them all.
No one can make a fool out of you without your consent. Quit offering such
fertile material to display as evidence of your foolishness.
As to bending...how much time, in these last few YEARS have you spent seriously
listening to WHY those who are hostile toward your religion?
JJ> LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY LONGER...EXCEPT TO
JJ> SPREAD THIS MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE
JJ> SWINE...LET US SPEND OUR TIME POSTING TO OTHER MESSAGE AREAS WHERE
JJ> THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH TO
JJ> HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY, LET
JJ> US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND HEARTS TO
JJ> FEEL!
Tell that Spirit to lower the volume. You're getting hoarse.
JJ> Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with
JJ> them..he only posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook!
JJ> Let us all do the same....let us either get out of here
JJ> altogether...or let us all barrage them with scripture....with no
JJ> response to the slap on the cheek, except that of quoting more
JJ> scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
Yes...lets leave. But don't leave. Let's just go...sort of. Maybe. Yea,
that's
the ticket.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:06:54
EID:908a 219598c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fbc
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bb069e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Don were killing time yakking about Warring christanic factio:
LB> :) Its the same Michael Hardy.
DM> Wonders will never cease--I looked at some of his posts and he
DM> is sounding almost human.
hehe...he was quite human before.
Perhaps he needed to step away from having to defend every single thing
he
said long enough to let himself think about what he really believed.
DM> So where have you been keeping youself, lady? (Would that
DM> qualify as being a "kept woman?)
LOL! We're I a kept woman, I would INSIST on lots more baubles than I currently
have. (G)
I needed to extricate myself from a conversation here that had become
exsessively tedious, and in so doing wound up taking a breather for awhile
from the whole thing.
You can thank Katherine, Judith and a few others for insisting on gossiping
in IRC about the latest batch of wierdos - had to come see for myself. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "The Lord is telling me to stay awhile." - Jesse Jones, 11/28/93
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: stargoat crap.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:14:40
EID:5358 2194b1c0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 93068837
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1041
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CJ> Actually, there seems to have been some difference of
CJ> opinion among early Christians about the sex of The Spook.
CJ> Of the handful of sentences preserved in The Gospel According to the
CJ> Hebrews by disapproving Church Fathers, is one in which Jesus says
CJ> that his mother was the Holy Spirit.
Delightful. Either it's something he would likely have said, fitting
the pattern of my take on the synoptic gospels, or it's something I
wishfully think he might have said (being somewhat of a fan and all).
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:18:08
EID:8482 2194b240
REPLY: 1:261/1137 93100294
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb10ca
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CJ> The Irish??? I'm not aware that they invaded any other
CJ> country than Canada.
Well, there was the New York City and Boston police departments.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: feed
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:25:42
EID:a14e 2194b320
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b988a80
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb12f2
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Mimi Milstein to David Worrell:
Hi, Mimi -
DW>> You do have to use a telnet client
DW>> that allows downloads using one of the commonly accepted BBS
DW>> file transfer protocols, though.
Anyone is invited to call. The address is bbs.sbase.com. I've
got 4 telnet sessions going, and am delighted to see much more
action internationally than I see over the phone lines. It's just
a normal Fidonet BBS accessible via telnet.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:29:08
EID:2d7a 2194b3a0
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b9735e1
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1410
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS> The secret of the problem is in playing the game Jesse sets
RS> up by Jesse's rules. In reality, if one is conscious that
RS> one does do good things, and is sure of oneself, one doesn't
RS> need to tell Jesse shit, or attempt in any way to justify
RS> one's ways.
When I was a boy scout, I was taught that if you told someone
about a 'good deed' you did, it was cancelled out. I've always
held that as an axiom.
RS> As Harlan Ellison
RS> wrote years ago, we all do good things for others because, on
RS> the most basic level there is, it makes us feel good to do
RS> them.
Ah, the nature of altruism. But even (the despised) B. F. Skinner
would have probably agreed that once one learns to look more than
10 minutes into the future, one discovers that a balanced life
is rewarding. Just not instantly.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Assisted Suicide
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:39:20
EID:553a 2194bce0
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32B78E46
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb23a9
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>>>> Forcing people who want to die to stay alive. Why make sense?
RV> I was kind of looking at it as if legal for one group ie: the old and
RV> tried or the fatal sick. Then it would also have to be open for
RV> anyone. If it every gets allowed here, then i can see another
RV> battle like the anti-abortion group. However the rules are apply it
RV> would be another can or worms.
Oh, there is never any shortage of people who know better than others
how those others ought to live or die. When you count the number of
assisted suicides (even the number of suicides) it is a VERY small
part of the population. There are many more people talking about it
than are seriously considering it.
RV> It is what i would support, then like i also indicated. Even I, would
RV> find it hard to allow the young access to it and thats not being
RV> fair.
Do you think that's a similar phenomenon to the people who don't trust
the terminally ill to end their own lives?
RV> I've always wonder to myself, if i have the right to interfear in
RV> their life. They may have presented their wish to me and
RV> if i happen to have turn them on their path, by accident i may turn
RV> them on a worst path. That is my biggest fear when this happens.
We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
within an environment from which that person will choose death to
escape, one other cannot take responsibility for the choice of
direction at each corner. That childrearing will not be undone in
a few conversations. If we are the first positive presence in such
a tragic life, how could something we say cause a death if we are
acting without doubt in that person's best interest?
If we were to earn a trust and betray it, yes, that could mitigate
suicide. But that would take a betrayal.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:11:46
EID:1a91 2194b960
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 72601bd2
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1d59
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
VR>> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
JH> I don't know if that's FAQ material or not...
JH> But I'm going to be giggling over it for at least a week.
And here I was, waiting for the shoe to drop. What church
are you going to WHAT?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:40:48
EID:70bd 2194bd00
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b9830b
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb2400
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Don Martin to Nate Cookson:
NC>> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead
NC>> fetuses:
NC>> Put tem down the garbage disposal, stick them in garbage bags and
NC>> stash them in a store room to rot. Dumped in trash bags along with
DM> etc.
DM> So? It surprises you that tissue removed in an operation
DM> is disposed of in ways that clash with your doubtless
DM> refined sense of aesthetics?
Actually, he's full of shit and then more. I've never heard of
a municipality or any other community here or anywhere that does
not have a set of rules regarding medical waste. We don't want
ebola-infected amputated feet surfacing at landfill sites, now
do we? That's why hospitals have 800C incinerators and independent
clinics have contracts with them. What does this idiot think
happens to possibly infected needles? Ground into our Burger
King food, no doubt.
One of the reasons I like this echo is that every once in a while
I get to thinking I've seen everything...
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:32:36
EID:c531 2194bc00
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32b9c123
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb227d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Sue Armstrong to Dave Hamilton:
CJ>> Another major reason hops are used, I understand, as a
CJ>> preservative. The typical US mega-brand of beer uses little or no
CJ>> hops, which is one reason the taste deteriorates so badly on the
CJ>> shelf.
DH>> Oh, *that's* what it is.
SA> I was kinda wondering myself. It tastes like it goes skunky a mere
SA> hour after it leaves the brewery.
I guess I've just never had it within an hour of leaving
the brewery to be able to appreciate any improvement on the
shelf stuff. It tastes like salt water to me.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 21 Dec 96 13:23:24
EID:1d20 21956ae0
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2baa7360
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bbe71b
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Mimi Milstein to Dave Hamilton:
MM> Thus gun control has become meaningless. It is only possible
MM> to control 'the good guys' with the permits, while all the
MM> baddies can go on and play havoc. Unfortunately armed robberies
MM> are as common as dirt.
Gun control here is simply a reflection of what the general
population wants. Anyone who really wants a gun can get one -
legally or not. Hunting and sporting are open to anyone who
wants to participate but they are simply not that popular.
We really don't have a strong division of classes here, which
I suspect keeps the motivation to take what others have at
a lower level than one might see in other places. If I were
black, living in a big city with restricted opportunity,
despite being told by everyone that my opportunities were
the same as everyone else's, I could imagine that violence
might become part of my repertoire.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 21 Dec 96 23:50:20
EID:10a2 2195be40
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 cb0767b5
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bc7a14
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Dan Ceppa to Dave Hamilton:
DH>> Canada will never become a threat, unless of course you somehow get
DH>> sucked into becoming bilingual. That's worth defending.
DC> It already is becoming bilingual. There are areas of this
DC> country that you can't get a job unless you speak the "native"
DC> language.
But, does every commercial good, product, rice crispies
box have bilingual packaging? That's expensive to implement.
Freeway signs for entire nation with blingual sets of each
sign. The right to have any judicial process where you
live in either language?
DC> As Quebec is hurting you, places like Miami are starting to
DC> hurt us.
Is Miami attempting to get the restof the country to speak
Spanish, while remvoving all English signs from businesses,
traffic warnings, and hospitals?
DC> I have nothing against knowing more than one language. I
DC> do have a problem with forcing everyone to have to know
DC> more than one just to get a job.
I think it's a wonderful personal choice to make.
DC> It really is a shame that Esperanto didn't make it. Then
DC> again, the most spoken language today is English, or at
DC> least a form of it. It may eventually become the universal
DC> language. But, until it, or another language does, there
DC> will be the problems as mentioned above.
English seems to be cutting it as the language of the internet.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:16:12
EID:8f10 21968200
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0039d1ea
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd603f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> More likely, Canada's resources (including but not limited
DH>> to water) will become essential.
DW> Then you would become a threat for standing between us and the
DW> resources we want. Back to point one.
I suppose. Obstacle would seem a better fit.
DW> I still find the idea of you guys cowering in fear of an imminent US
DW> invasion to be quite amusing. :)
I don't know anyone who expects a physical invasion. Economic and
cultural influence will do.
DW> I find the idea of a Canadian intelligence service even more amusing.
Yah, we wouldn't even know they exist if it weren't for their
basketball team.
DW> What the hell do they do all day when not looking for US boogeymen,
DW> throw pot-luck dinners for the Canadian Armed (if you can call it
DW> that) Forces? :)
This year, they busied themselves with *investigating* the armed
forces. And they won. The top general resigned and an entire
regiment was disbanded.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: PROBLEM OF PAIN SUMMA
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:46:44
EID:5788 219685c0
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1270
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6793
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Chris Green to Dave Hamilton:
CG>> That is from the 1611 King James Version, which is translated from
CG>> the Latin.
DH>> And your source for this claim is ?
CG> Is it your intent to be funny, perhaps?
No. We're accustomed to citing sources here.
CG> My sources for the above are: Alan R. Millard, 'Rankin Senior
CG> Lecturer in Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages', University of
CG> Liverpool; Dr. Harold Rowdon, Lecturer in Church History, London
CG> Bible College; and the Rev. Michael Beasley who is to be found in the
CG> UK Fidonet echo 'Vicars'.
Thank you.
"Surprisingly, perhaps, for an age that was so familiar
with Latin and Greek, the six committees were instructed
to base their Authorized Version upon the previous
*English* versions, translating afresh, but also comparing
their work with the other vernacular Bibles, from Tyndale
to Parker."
_The_Story_of_English_, McCrum, MacNeil & Cran, 1986.
Further, (from the same reference) the Authorized version was
released in the same year Shakespeare wrote 'The Tempest'. The
vocabulary of the KJV was held dumbed-down to 8,000 words, while
Shakespeare used a vocabulary of 30,000 words, targeting the
same audience. The mandate of the KJV was that it be more poetic
than previous versions.
CG> Have a pleasant Christmas and New Year.
Thank you, same to you.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again. And again.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:34:21
EID:4be0 21968440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 728416ea
REPLY: 1:358/1 4a95a1a3
On Dec 14 01:25 96, Quentin Fai of 1:358/1 wrote:
QF> So, that's why every Mormon I know has a massive stockpile
QF> of food in their basements, as well as why they seem so
QF> obsessed with canning equipment. [...]
Actually, that's just about the only aspect of the Mormon
"lifestyle" that makes even a lick of sense. If you are willing
to devote the storage space to that food, your costs go way
down. It's much cheaper (about 50-20%) to buy shit by the case
instead of by the single consumer unit. Not only is it cheaper,
but you only have to go to the grocery store when you WANT to.
Myself, I live in an apartment; but I do buy NOODLES by the case.
Of course, leave it to the Mormons to screw up any good idea, even
if it's one of their own. The hoarding isn't done on a simple family
by family basis: it's overseen and managed so that one family ends
up with all the toilet paper and sanitary products, another with all
soap products, another with some other consumable.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:01:14
EID:c8f5 21955820
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32bd769b
DAVID RICE said "Marty knows everything" to DON MARTIN, adding:
>DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by
>DR> your own canard
DM> Leave his rubber duckie out of this. It is "petard" you
DM> are thinking of. And the verb is "hoist", just like with
DM> sails.
DR> I ran a "word search" on the words "lie" and "falsehood,"
DR> and the list included "canard," which I preferred. I have
DR> a long list of interesting words which I use in writing.
Be that as it may, one is ill-advised to misuse cliches in
writing. The original "hoist by his own petard" refers to a late
medieval/early renaissance sapping device for destroying the walls
of a beseiged town, and is the analogy of the bomber being blown up
by his own bomb. As such, it is more at home with ideas of
machination than with those of lying. I applaud your giving
delightful old words a new chance in the sun, but they are better
served when the chance is an accurate one.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:02:54
EID:4a6c 2196a840
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda23e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a68b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Martis dies December 17 1996, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR> It was far more evil than something so mundane. His presumption was
to
FR> try to top what he wanted to pretend was the best of the best of atheist
FR> good deeds.
That's how I saw it as well. A "heathen" could tell him tomorrow that he
saved the planet, and we'd probably get 'Oh yeah? Well _I_ did...'
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:06:44
EID:6052 2196a8c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda346
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Hey, what happened with the watch?
Dies solis December 15 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the denizens
JJ>> of this hell hole
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
Funny how he evades THIS question, too.
JJ>> are not in any way typical of that small portion of atheists in this
JJ>> country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping generalizations?
He personally knows all the other atheists. :-/
ML> Is this _just_ your opinion or do you have some evidence with
ML> which to back it?
"That's a stupid question. I will not answer it."
JJ>> The writer's point is well taken: those
JJ>> participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
While Jones is ignorant of atheism, period.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:11:12
EID:a7f5 2196a960
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda444
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b9735e1
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Richard!
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit Richard Smith ad ALL:
RS> The secret of the problem is in playing the game Jesse sets
RS> up by Jesse's rules.
Anybody who enumerates what "good things" they have done DOES play by Jesse's
rules. I wonder what he did to make us all accountable to him.
RS> first would be honest, the second slavery. Ignore Jesse. Let
RS> him go rant somewhere else . . .
He'll stay. He needs this place, just like some people need a liver.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Nick Andre
|Sub: :)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:14:58
EID:9bc8 2196a9c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda4dd
REPLY: 1:340/14 b18bd9f6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit Nick Andre ad All:
NA> Whats everyones view on that stain on the office building in Florida
that
NA> resembles the "virgin" mary? :)
It's a stain.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:17:50
EID:fb2b 2196aa20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda592
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies December 17 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad ALL:
DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
DR> "prophesies" in the Bible. And did I hear even one word
DR> from the bible worshipers? NOT EVEN ONE PEEP! It is almost
Upload it here, and we'll wave it around. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: ** ALL **
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:27:03
EID:04bb 21968360
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 21968361
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
Hail all!
You probably already know this, but Carl Sagan died early in the morning
on Friday 27. According to our paper (he was a fellow resident of
Ithaca) "He had been battling a rare blood disease known as
myelodysplasia, a form of anemia also known as preleukemia syndrome".
So it goes...
"The job is by no means done. We will look for the boundary between the
solar system and the interstellar medium and then we'll voyage on
forever in the dark between the stars."
Dr. Carl E. Sagan 1934-1996
(Oh, and I'm still trying to recall how to use my .QWK reader)
Cheers!
Mephisto
mephisto@mephistopheles.org
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/mephisto/index.html
... Oh, don't mind me - I'm just looking for new taglines.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:24:06
EID:1733 21965b00
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 1d8d41a8
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15b27072
On (21 Dec 96) Jesse Jones wrote to Glen Todd...
JJ> Quoting GLEN TODD to JESSE JONES on 12-18-96
JJ> GT>shows that it _IS_ a direct and blatant violation of the
JJ> Constitution GT>and a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics and
JJ> honour that True
JJ> GT>Folk would do well to shun.
JJ> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4% atheists in the
JJ> U.S.?
Seventeen percent of us in Oregon will openly admit to being
either atheist or agnostic.
... ... Imagine. 9,000,000 sperm and this shithead is the one who won.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:31:45
EID:6133 219663e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 07f558e9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0469137e
On (22 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Gwenny The Pooh...
DW> In a message to Glen Todd you wrote:
DW> GtP> The mistake David is making is that he isn't taking into
DW> GtP> account that women run a little "fatter".
DW> Females (with very few exceptions) weigh less then males of the same
DW> height/build. Your daughter is shorter *and* heavier than I am. It's
a
DW> simple equation. Your adamant denial of the solution to the equation
DW> does nothing but amuse me even more.
Without knowing a great deal more about bone density, muscle-to-fat
ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make a judgment about her
weight.
My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven if I could
get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and I'm 6'1".
... Ñh‹s Ña€lïî h„$ ƒ ûŒrš$ n ‹t - dínt $tŠ†l ¡ç!!!!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff still think Sagan's a Creationist?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:09
EID:20a9 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b445438e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d91
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> You obviously thought that Sagan was a creationist.
BW> I obviously thought nothing of the kind. Not then, now, or
BW> probably in the future. Like usual, Martin the asshole was
BW> wrong again!
FR> You obviously were led to believe that Sagan was a Creationist,
FR> Bill.
No Fredric, I never thought nothing of the kind. It's just factual
in your stupid dreams and also with those that I call morons.
FR> It wasn't until someone else posted the full quote to expose
FR> your dishonesty.
No Fredric, I exposed your foolishness by posting the full quote,
remember? The one which you still ignore! Both Carl Sagan and I
agree on so many of the same issues. He too believes the odds are
against that we are alone. So I suggest you should deal with your
denial problem right now!
FR> It's been explained to you a hundred times, Bill, yet I suppose
FR> it will take another thousand before you start to see the
FR> light... when you yank a quote out of context and post it as
FR> though it were the complete truth, that makes you into a liar.
FR> When you yank a quote out of context and post it as the
FR> complete truth to try to defend a religious occultism of your
FR> own making, that makes you into an evil liar.
Look oh stupid one. You're the moron with the problem, not I! You
claimed that I said Carl Sagan was a creationist. Yet I have
repeatedly ask you and other morons to present prove for your
claims. Yet for years now, you can't prove your claims because you
are a dumb stupid liar and a moron to boot.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Bill Forseth
|Sub: Marty doesn't know! Does this sound like anyone we know?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:22
EID:231d 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 719a0455
REPLY: 1:282/76.0 32ab7b3c
On (08 Dec 96) Bill Forseth wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> You don't seem to understand the thread correctly. Mr. Lepzig
BW> believes in evolution which is guided by mother nature and I am
BW> only suggesting by expressing some alternative views that maybe
BW> mother nature wasn't even that smart to begin with.
BF> And your alternative views are ___________________
BW> Tada what dumb ass?
BF> What are your alternative views? You said you suggested some,
BF> and I asked what they were. Be a man, present them.
Time and time again I have asked you people to keep good notes
because there is no sense going back to square one over and over
again like you people like to do and we get nowhere!
My alternative view is that both atheists and theists are both full
of crap! Both don't view the evidence subjectively because they're
too biased and too brainwashed to do so. Yes, we are back to square
one even years later. What a shame you people can't learn a damn
thing. Isn't this true?
BW> Of course I do. But those lemmings like Lepzig forgets to
BW> include the whole universe into their old lame theories which
BW> just doesn't have all of their pieces fit together correctly.
BF> And your correct-fitting pieces are ___________________
BW> And what are they dumb ass?
BF> No-no, what are YOUR correct fitting pieces, Billy. I think you
BF> have me and you confused :)
Really? Reread what I just said up above.
BF> We were poofed here, then condemned to misery because a snake
BF> talked someone into eating an APPLE? AAAHAHAHAhaha...
What does this has to do with starting an intelligent conversation?
BW> ROTFL... you are so stupid for even mentioning this into a
BW> serious intelligent conversation. Also I noticed that you can't
BW> even keep up with 6th grade spelling either. So go back and
BW> play in your little sand box.
BF> Are you high?
BW> Nope, and you have said nothing and you can't even debate
BW> yourself out of a wet paper bag. So try to say something
BW> meaningful next time Mr. dumb ass!
BF> I haven't even started to debate with you, you haven't said
BF> anything that one could debate with.
That's because you say dumb shit like a snake talked someone into
eating an apple. I don't see this as any sort of useful talk for
starting an intelligent conversation.
BF> You seem more interested in flashing your hostility around than
BF> in participating in a good debate.
Of course, you people incorrectly mislabel others, set in your ways,
are untrainable, stupid and lifelong morons, which an intelligent
person like myself can't even hope to get you people out of the hole
I call square one. But I continue hoping that I'm wrong and that you
morons can someday evolve enough to crawl out of that hole you find
yourselves in.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Bill Forseth
|Sub: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:34
EID:72bd 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 0c0e65bb
REPLY: 1:282/76.0 32ab7b41
On (09 Dec 96) Bill Forseth wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
BF> I asked you a few months ago what agnosticism means to you,
BF> what your beliefs are. You responded with some immemorable
BF> stuff, so I'll ask you again. Warning, I have your previous
BF> reply on disk, and will trot it out at the drop of a hat.
Agnosticism means to me, that one admits to being ignorant as far as
knowing the Universe. Which is unlike atheism and theists who both
claim they know the truth from totally relying on their sheer
arrogance.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bill Wolff: Creationist
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:45
EID:5bc5 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 f2d193ed
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab08ee
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:50, Bill Wolff got back to Fredric Rice
BW> To deliberately make Sagan sound like a creationists? Get real
BW> moron. No I deliberately stated a fact moron!
DC> The only thing that is a fact is that you are a moron, Billy.
Ah... only in your dreams, moron!
DC> You expect people to have as short of a memory like you do.
DC> You are mistaken, yet again.
You're the one with the short memory moron. And how about proving
the lie that you had stated that I could prove the existence of god
in 5 minutes. Of which I have not said anything of the kind. But
your so stupid, you still pretend that I did anyway, you foolish
moron with the short memory!
DC> Now, run along and go play in traffic.
DC> ... F.L.D. (fundy learning disorder) poster child: Bill Wolff
Ah... still don't know the truth after all of these years. What a
damn moron you turned out to be. How sad!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Billy has his head up hi
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:58
EID:a48c 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 757528e9
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab09e0
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:48, Bill Wolff got back to Marty Leipzig
SS> You know, it's really amusing to see Idiot Wolff hoist himself
SS> yet again with this glaring missive.
ML> That's O.K. We need fresh chum on my boat.
BW> YOU'LL DIE TRYING SHIT HEAD!
DC> Getting a bit testy, Billy cried Wolff?
Testy? Nope, just being honest. Which is something you apparently
can't do.
DC> The only reason you seem to be posting here is to make that
DC> other liar, Appleton, look good.
Dan, you are one of the worse liar I know. And you're also one of
the stupidest moron I know too.
DC> PS It's not working.
DC> ... Bill Wolff: Lord...Liar...Lunatic.
Once you get out of the dark hole you call a life, you will learn
what a total ass you have made out of yourself.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ceppa, the liar!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:09
EID:8838 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 8102423b
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab0bfe
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:49, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Here you go again, Billy. Deny it yet again. You look so cute
DC> with your ass and mouth puckered up.
BW> You look so stupid trying to see something that isn't there.
DC> The person that I'm typing this message to isn't all there. Get
DC> some help, Billy. Your lying is getting worse.
Still seeing crap that ain't there, eh Dan? How cute!
DC> The only dumb ass here is you, Billy. And, Star Goat is very
DC> upset that you hold the name of His Son in vain.
BW> Seeing Star Goat's and His Son now? You need some serious help!
DC> You're an idiot. And certifiable.
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
doesn't it you little pea brained clueless idiot?
DC> Now, run along and go play in traffic.
BW> See!
DC> You don't, that's for sure, Billy cried Wolff. You are a known
DC> liar. Now you attempt to play the innocent party. That doesn't
DC> wash in here. After all, it's quite the sight to watch as you
DC> pile it on yourself.
I'm innocent because I am innocent you little moron! You continue to
bring up false charges against me and failed to provide any evidence
for your foolish claims. Which makes you just another dumb ass
without a working brain. Happy now, dipshit?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Crying Wolff
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:22
EID:9e3e 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 53afdb8d
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab1cea
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:49, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
BW> show me above were I claimed that Carl Sagan is/was a creationists?
DC> Lie again, Billy...
BW> Lie? Get serious! Nobody ever proved I ever said such a claim. And
DC> I am serious, Billy. You are a liar. You have never
DC> demonstrated yourself to be anything else.
Oh poor Dan. Too stupid to understand that I'm the innocent victim
here and I have proved time and time again that you morons are just
stupid fools who clearly fail to even understand even simple facts.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff can't hack it
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:35
EID:033f 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 00497ba9
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8d
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
SM> Bill Wolff was expelled from KINDERGARTEN as un-educABLE.
BW> Boy you morons won't stop at no bullshit, will you? Okay Sean,
BW> liar and moron, please elaborate. Or go and off running with
BW> your tail between your legs once again. I'm not your little
BW> play toy.
FR> Okay, so why _were_ you expelled from Kindergarten then?
BW> Your dishonesty and lies knows no bonds, do they Fredric the
BW> dipshit?
FR> Come now, Bill. You can never seem to answer an
FR> honest question honestly for some reason. You're not a lawyer
FR> by any chance, are you?
I did already answer your slanderous question, Mr. Moron Fredric.
You people are really stupid and don't just play one on the echoes,
right?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist idiot
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:48
EID:d77a 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 3f8c89ed
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8e
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
FR> According to the first report, Bill said he could prove that
FR> his gods existed inside of 5 minutes. The bastard's time is up.
DC> Here's another one that you forgot, Billy boy.
BW> Here is another lie you support like a dipshit. Why not prove
BW> evidence for your brainwashed masters instead of just agreeing
BW> with those idiots?
FR> Are you claiming that you need more time?
No Fredric the dipshit, I'm claiming that I said nothing about 5
minutes anywhere. And I am admitting that you are a damn fool for
lying your ass off again.
FR> Or are you admitting that you _don't_ have evidence for your
FR> deity constructs?
What deity constructs Fredric? I'm claiming to say that it's not
logical to think we are alone in this universe. The late Carl Sagan
also believes the same damn thing.
FR> Why not answer questions honestly, Bill? Is it because you're a
FR> Catholic?
I do answer questions honestly you dipshit! The problem is that you
are just a stupid moron who fails to get anything straight. How sad!
And no, you're wrong again, I am not a Catholic or follow any other
faith worship. Not even the faith worship that foolish atheists
follows either.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff still won't
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:01
EID:718a 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b3d6ab5f
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8f
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> Evolution's both fact and theory. Quit trying to
MG> anthropomorphosize it into some "personal" construct.
BW> Both fact and theory? Please explain how a theory is a fact?
DR> Dozens of people have already explained this basic, fundamental
DR> component of science. Liar Wolff merely refuses to understand
DR> such kindergarten basics.
BW> Poor dumb David. Still listening to your old
BW> brainwashed atheists masters again. Tsk-tsk!
FR> Do you still demand that a fact and a theory are mutually
FR> exclusive, Bill?
I never demanded that a fact and a theory are mutually exclusive you
little moron!
FR> So far you have been subjected to years of assistance by your
FR> intellectual superiors and yet it seems you have ignored every
FR> attempt others have made to help you.
You're the morons who needs help. My intellectual superiors like the
late Carl Sagan is definitely on track.
FR> Do you still think evolution has something to do with the
FR> origins of life?
Poor Fredric the dumb ass! Evolution is a fact of life! As time
passes... something somewhere changes. Even our technology evolves!
So asking whether evolution exists or not is a damn stupid question.
Although asking where we originally came from is an intelligent one,
you little dipshit. Why do you people act so stupid for? Were you
just born that way, or did you just evolve that way?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Marty doesn't know!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:13
EID:da02 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 abfcdc22
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d90
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Oh poor David... I understand this, plus thousands of things
BW> that far surpasses these things. Please get with the program,
BW> dick head! Evolution is a natural occurrence, whether by mother
BW> nature or guided by some sort of intelligence.
FR> Do you have any evidence for this "some sort of intelligence"
FR> of yours?
It's just common sense, Fredric the pea brain. DNA is a complex
program which learned to improve itself with time. It created us who
somehow calls ourselves as intelligent beings. Well by your own
stupid examples, I wonder if we are only partly correct.
FR> Even more to the point, do you have any ___reason___ to suspect
FR> that natural selection and mutation isn't enough to accurately
FR> describe how and why evolution takes place?
Oh poor Fredric. Why do you concern yourself with the basics? Why
not ask why natural selection and mutation doesn't answer the
question like how did life get started and why some species
seemingly appeared without any links to natural selection or
mutation?
FR> If so, I suggest you write up your Nobel Prize-winning research
FR> paper and get it published quickly before some other super
FR> brain beats you to the finish line.
Sorry, but the late Carl Sagan already got the Pulitzer Prize. I
just happen to agree with him.
FR> Well? What's taking you so long, Bill?
Oh poor old Fredric, who's dumb, blind, and deaf!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pay up, Wolff!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:25
EID:1423 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 5adfb710
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d92
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
DC> Join the club. I'm a "lemming". Seems like you hit him harder
DC> and he made you the Grand Poobah of the organization.
FR> I'm not paying Dr. Glodbreg any dues! Most of us joined the
FR> club _before_ there were any Grand Poobahs and should be
FR> grandfathered.
BW> Seeing things that aren't really there Fredric?
FR> Just because you need to contrive fictional constructs doesn't
FR> mean that everyone needs to, Bill. Not everyone is as weak as
FR> you, you know.
You're delusional! I see things that are there and you Fredric, sees
crap that ain't there. Like most moron do.
FR> And if you want to make Dr. Glodbreg the ring leader of your
FR> intellectual superiors, please do so. I can't think of a better
FR> choice.
FR> It's cute watching Mr. Wolff huff and puff thinking he's
FR> knockig down houses of straw. The fact that he fails doesn't
FR> seem to tell him that he's wheezing at mountains.
BW> Still seeing shit that ain't there! My Fredric Rice, aren't you
BW> the really sick one!
FR> __Your__ Fredric Rice, huh? Not even if you paid me, dear. That
FR> is, I seriously doubt you have enough money. I can be had but
FR> I'm not cheap.
Still can't comprehend what you read, eh Fredric?
FR> How come you always devolve to personal insults when you're
FR> asked pointed questions, Bill? Everyone here has treated you
FR> fairly well and yet you return with calling people "dick head."
Because I'm being honest, Fredric the dick head! Why should I lie
like you do and cloud the truth? I see hiding the truth as
unproductive and is living a lie. Sorry, I refuse to take part in
acting like a true moron like you do.
FR> Is it a Catholic thing?
Hardly... it's an intelligent and honest thing. Something that you
probably have never experienced before. Or at least have ignored it
really well in this case.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:37
EID:9610 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b6f6c690
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d93
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> but you're also a terrorist.
DR> Yes. And damn proud of it, too.
BW> It figures. You don't get your way, then you stamp your feet
BW> and threaten others. Only stupid fucks do this sort of things.
FR> Interesting claims, Bill. Spikeing trees is an honorable
FR> profession which people have been doing for decades. As yet no
FR> one has been hurt;
Oh really? The American people were hurt because terrorist fools
like to destroy things. Come on Fredric the moron... can't you think
for a change?
FR> though the potential for harm has always existed. And on your
FR> side? How many millions have died because of the willful
FR> ignorance you profess?
Willful ignorance of the truth? You're really a twisted sick one,
aren't you?
DR> You're the nescience schmuck spewing the Kafkaesque, mendacious
DR> prattle around here. You have demonstrated yorself to be a
DR> untutored, asinine, loutish liar; a sodden, vacuous,
DR> meretricious, specious imbicle with delusions of intelligence,
DR> with the postiche affectation of knowing what the fuck you're
DR> talking about. In short, you're an ass.
FR> My guess is you should start looking up words with the word
FR> "You're" and work your way down the list, Bill.
Okay so grammar was always my worst subject. While math and science
was always my best! Do you have a problem with that? I feel it's far
better than you who has failed to learn how to use a spell checker
(see previous message for examples) and who insists in living a life
as a total dipshit. Hopefully you can see the difference.
BW> Sorry shit head David. I clearly know what the fuck I'm talking
BW> about. I'm an agnostic who doesn't buy this old mythology
BW> beliefs like you damn fuckups do.
FR> So far you haven't enumerated what these "mythology beliefs"
FR> are that your intellectual superiors are laboring under.
Oh poor brainwashed Fredric! Too blind to see the flaws in your
logic. Even when I spell them out to you just about every time. I
will not waste my time in this message to do so. Just read the other
replies to you in this very packet for lots of examples, dipshit!
FR> Now why would that be?
Still ignorant after all of these years, eh? It figures!
BW> Oh I got more stuff to say.
FR> Such as "shit head?" That's about the most rational thing
FR> you've yet said, Bill. Here we are trying to help you overcome
FR> your willful ignorance and your pathological need to lie and
FR> you repay us all with a potty mouth.
Oh poor Fredric makes up slanderous lies about me and then whines
when a call a spade a spade! Oh poor lying cry baby Fredric who
refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Oh poor wimpy
Fredric!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Answer the question for once
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:50
EID:a51a 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4bd930d0
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d94
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Sorry shit head David. I clearly know what the fuck I'm talking
BW> about. I'm an agnostic who doesn't buy this old mythology
BW> beliefs like you damn fuckups do.
FR> Well? Are you going to enumerate these fictional "mythology
FR> beliefs" of yours or are you going to pull the typical fundy
FR> and ignore having to face the consequences of your accusations?
Now you asked me the same damn thing in the previous reply and I
answered it. And now you ask again. You are truly a dipshit, Fredric
Rice the moron.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist l
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:02
EID:3139 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 5b127427
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab4a14
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 05:13, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
BW> Here is another lie you support like a dipshit. Why not prove
DC> Goodbye, twit.
Oh poor deranged Dan can't back up his wild ass claims and now has
to run away and cry and whine all the way home. Just another typical
response from those stupid brainwashed morons.
DC> Enjoy your self-delusion. You fit the role so well.
Your stupid slanderous remarks means absolutely nothing from a damn
moron like you.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist l
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:13
EID:16f0 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 637acbda
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ab81ec
On (09 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Bill Wolff...
DC> What fun! If it weren't for these fundies, I would have
DC> to retire.
BW> Poor Dan confuses an agnostic for a fundy. Poor brainwashed Dan!
DW> Quack for us again, duckie.
Hehehe... still seeing shit that ain't there, just like a damn
fundy. Damn Dan, you make a great lemming! When does the herd plan
on jumping off the damn cliff again? I just love to watch you
lemmings in action. Stupid does what stupid sees, right stupid Dan?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Childish Leipzip! William Canis Defuckhead DeL [1]
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:22
EID:e85f 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 9d89dfcd
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Ah... Marty using all his big words again. Gee... when are you
BW> going to start trying to have an intelligent conversation for
BW> once?
ML> As soon as I find someone with the intelligence to do so. Of
ML> course, that immediately excludes you, Dimwit.
Oh poor Marty! You have already proven you couldn't see the truth if
it came and bit you on the ass!
BW> Poor Marty... when the going gets tough, Marty resorts to
BW> childish slurs. About par what we expect from a five year old.
ML> I know my audience and reply in terms that I know even a
ML> drooling asswipe like yourself would be able to understand.
Poor Marty fails to start having another intelligent conversation
again and offers only his flawed excuses again. Sigh... poor Bill
Wolff is still waiting for poor Marty to get his head out of his ass
once again.
ML> Stunning riposte, Herr Idiot.
Ah... the best of Marty the moron. How cute!
BW> Poor Marty. What I claim is that we don't know how life got
BW> started and if any third party was involve. So this could not
BW> be further from the truth, eh?
ML> That's right, Billyboy. You could not be further from the
ML> truth.
Your masters have brainwashed you well.
BW> Having a conversation with you is like trying to reason with a
BW> screaming 5 year old.
ML> So, you've finally accepted that which you are? How nice.
You also comprehend like a moron 5 year old too. How cute!
BW> But I'll try to continue. Also I don't know where you get that
BW> fundy claim stuff you have been claiming for years. As I've
BW> never seen any spirits in my life. Have you?
ML> Of course, but they are in bottles.
Ah... still seeing crap that ain't there again? Sorry my poor moron,
we're talking about spirits which are claimed by theists to be
existing. Not your favorite past time spirits. Gosh Marty, you're so
dumb sometimes.
BW> Ah... maybe your tantrum will pass shortly.
ML> Unfortunately we can't say the same for you.
Poor Marty still seeing shit that ain't there. You're acting just
like a damn fundy again.
BW> Really? You seem to suggest that life got started here only on
BW> it's own and proceeds without any outside intervention.
ML> That's what the evidence suggests.
Sorry, the evidence suggests that the Universe is full of organic
material, Marty the damn dipshit who can't see the truth if it bit
him in the ass. Boy you are really stupid, aren't you the moron?
BW> I'll grant you this is indeed probably possible.
ML> How nice. I AM so relieved.
Sounds like it's time for your diaper change again.
BW> But I wager a similar thing could have happened elsewhere.
ML> So? The evidence indicates that it is entirely possible.
Yet, your so stuck on your faith that the Earth acted alone when
even common sense dictates otherwise.
BW> Thus this could drastically change you view of reality.
ML> Nope. It would merely add to it. It would however remove most
ML> religionists from the navel of the cosmos. A deprovincialism
ML> that would profoundly affect their view (however stilted) or
ML> reality.
Sorry my poor stupid one. If we ever have prove that intelligent
beings other than ourselves does exist. Then this proves that the
theists had the right idea (although somewhat clouded) and that the
atheists were so stupid to put faith against the laws of logic and
common sense. Although I suppose you are just too stupid to
understand.
BW> Enjoying your little fit?
ML> You must be enjoying yours to keep it up for all these years.
Proving time and time again that you are just a stupid fool isn't
enjoyable to me. I'm trying to shame you and force you into an
intelligent conversation for once. Yet you continue to make up
excuses like a damn fool why you can't. I must conclude that you
maybe just too stupid to have any shame.
ML> Right. Tell us all about how a "factualist" deals with reality,
ML> Billyboy. Still claiming that NASA is sending gifts to the
ML> gods? You moron.
Interesting stupidity on your part. As I just learned yesterday that
it was nobody other than the late Carl Sagan who "As a member of the
Voyager team, Sagan conceived the idea of putting a message aboard
the Voyager spacecraft on the chance that extraterrestrial beings
will come upon it centuries from now, somewhere on its endless
journey beyond the solar system." - The New York Times
BW> So when are you going to start?
ML> Always have. It's no fault of ours that you're so terminally
ML> benighted not to be able to discern that fact.
Your logic is so poor, you have convinced me that you can't find a
fact if it bit you on the ass!
BW> Right Marty! You think foolishly that I'm some sort of fundy.
ML> Quack a bit louder, Billyboy.
Poor Marty with his foolish blind faith. Still seeing shit that
ain't there. How cute! Just like a fundy.
ML> Your inept dogmatism substitutes just fine.
What are these dogmatism substitutes Marty? Or is this just another
example of you seeing shit that ain't there again?
BW> when in fact you have a shit load of them which contradicts
BW> reality?
ML> I trust you have evidence to back up this idiotic claim.
I do so everyday my poor Marty. The problem is that your dumb and
blind. It's time you stop denying your disabilities.
BW> Give me a break!
ML> Which arm?
It figures you are too stupid to know the difference between a
figure of speech and a factual statement. Clearly you must indeed to
be too stupid to start an intelligent conversation with. How sad!
ML> Sorry, it's physically and mentally impossible for me to lower
ML> myself to your level.
BW> In your dreams perhaps. And the other meaningless personal
BW> attacks were read and filed in the big bit bucket in the sky.
ML> Ah, the one between your ears.
Poor Marty, still playing out in left field and 180 degrees from the
truth as he can get. Doesn't your denial of your stupidity problem
ever bother you?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Billyboy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his n [1]
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:31
EID:1058 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 d8288670
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> I know I'm not a creationist, and I know you have your head up
BW> your ass. And once again, you just don't know what in the hell
BW> you are talking about.
ML> Wrong yet again, Billyboy. Your argument from ignorance is not
ML> so much an argument as a further example of your ignorance.
My argument is in line with that of the late Carl Sagan, dipshit.
It's time you deal with your denial, dumb ass!
BW> I personally don't know if a creator had
BW> existed or not.
ML> Past tense? So, you believe a creator now exists.
No stupid Marty! I said it in the past tense to avoid confusion with
morons who claims that God is dead. My conversation has nothing to
do with such talk. My conversation has to do whether or not the
Earth itself could of pulled off making life and creating all of the
different species or not. Evidence suggest that the Earth isn't that
gifted. And if it were, the evidence we have has holes that needs to
be filled.
ML> That's the least of what you don't know.
BW> Poor Marty... the truth is that nobody knows.
ML> Perhaps. Some more enlightened individuals ignore such
ML> supernatural nonsense and concentrate on reality...
BW> I'm not dealing with supernatural bullshit Marty. I'm dealing
BW> with the Universe as a whole. And you dimwit, are viewing
BW> reality as the Earth exists, but nothing outside does.
ML> I trust you have evidence to back up this moronic claim of
ML> yours, don't you Billyboy? Or are you merely grasping at straws
ML> yet again?
You are really stupid, aren't you dipshit? I see evidence that the
Earth just isn't gifted enough to act alone. And yet when I side on
the more logical approach and prove you to be a fool that you are.
You pretend to believe I'm grasping at straws? How fundy of you.
Denial is your speciality, isn't it?
BW> Both fact and theory? Please explain how a theory is a fact?
ML> Read a little closer you fucking idiot. You wrote (as noted
ML> above) "Please explain how a theory is a fact". I never claimed
ML> that evolutionary theories (plural, Billyboy) are fact; you
ML> did.
Read again dipshit! I was asking you if you believe a theory is a
fact. When are you ever going to get the story straight you damn
moron!
BW> Oh I know the difference alright and I asked you to explain
BW> something. But instead of answering it intelligently. You throw a
BW> fit like a little child.
ML> Hardly. I responded in a way that I knew even a blightered
ML> asshole like you could understand. Further, if you want to be
ML> spoon-fed, go ask you keeper; instead of begging your betters
ML> to explain all that you don't and can't understand.
Poor Marty! Clouded from heavy brainwashing and being a total
ignorant old fart, foolishly believes that I'm a creationist and a
fundy to boot. Like always, your never close to knowing the truth,
are you, Marty the damn fool?
ML> So? The fact is we don't know...YET.
BW> Finally you admitted it after all of these years.
ML> I never claimed otherwise. If I did, provide some evidence. Put
ML> up or shut up, Billyboy.
You admitted that I am a creationist and a fundy, like a damn liar
that you are. So why pretend being something that you're not? You
can't fool me, oh stupid one!
BW> Maybe you're not a total moron after all.
ML> Unfortunately we will never be able to say that about you.
Poor Marty has to be seeing images of himself in the mirror again.
After all, that would explain the delusions.
ML> You're just like the God mongering morons of the middle ages.
ML> We don't know what makes lightning. GOD DID IT! We don't know
ML> what makes wind. GOD DID IT.
BW> Sorry dipshit. I haven't seen any God (or gods) and as far as I'm
BW> concern, he, they, or whatever hasn't done shit.
ML> Sounds like you're projecting again, Billyboy.
Poor Marty sees God (or gods) again. I'm not an expert in your
mental illness. But isn't it time for your straitjacket again?
BW> Yeah... just like your stupid labeling of individuals and you still
BW> can't even get it right yet.
ML> Yeah. Pull the other one, Mr. Factualist.
Poor Marty denial runs so deep.
BW> Your old theory is too short and
BW> naive. Like it or not.
ML> Your "theory" isn't even a good guess, it is totally outdated
ML> and has been debunked for hundred of years. Get your toes out
ML> of your mouth and try reading a recent science text, Herr
ML> Idiot.
BW> Oh... I assume you are referring to the biblical theory.
ML> Nope. Another erroneous assumption on your part.
Then please elaborate it for us Marty. I'm sure it will just turn
out to be another classic case of your seeing shit that ain't there
again like usual.
BW> Oh well, as probably stated previously, you have your head up
BW> your ass again.
ML> Physical impossibility. Although I do sometimes wonder how you
ML> manage to respire when your nose is nestled in your colon.
Poor old foolish Marty confuses a figure of speech again like a damn
moron that he is. How cute!
BW> But you dumb stupid morons don't think logically, do you moron?
ML> I can't speak for "dumb stupid morons" (I would never even
ML> begin to talk for you, Billydroid)...
BW> You're such a dipshit! You're doing it right in this very message.
ML> Nope. You need no assistance in speaking for you clan of "dumb
ML> stupid morons"; you're a perfect spokesperson for that bunch.
Ah... the truth of what I'm saying is right even here in this very
message. The problem is that you're just too damn stupid to see it.
BW> That's right, I have to deal with you children all of the time.
ML> Yet another inmate that believes he's a warden.
No my poor Marty. I see right through your bullshit!
BW> and you still project the old wishful theories of the ageless
BW> ignorant.
ML> Such as? Evidence, moron. Put up or shut up.
I have time and time again. You're just too stupid to see it. Why do
you continue to play dumb and stupid? And why are you in denial
after all of these years?
ML> Your 'logical scientific method"? ROFL! I am amazed your
ML> keyboard didn't self destruct rather than accept that load of
ML> horseshit you dumped.
In your dream Marty, the damn lying ass fool!
BW> Ah... it figures you would take a figure of speak literally.
ML> A "figure of speak"? ROFL! You must really have your knickers
ML> in a twist to royally fuck up so grandly.
It figures that poor Marty missed the whole point and grabs at a
straw when he foolishly tries to turn this into a grammar debate.
How fundy of you Marty, the damn lying ass fool that you are!
BW> So it appears, you're just as stupid as they are.
ML> ... Sad you don't even manage to come up to fundie level.
Sad that you are just too stupid to know the difference between a
fundy and an agnostic. So your knowledge of fundy levels are
nonrelative to the rest of us. Just face reality Marty, you're
nothing but a fucked up moron. I suggest you finally deal with your
denial problem.
ML> I have no beliefs and believe nothing. I'll leave that to
ML> ignorant schmucks like yourself.
Oh poor Marty, how quickly you forget. You continue to ignore the
fact that your faith states that I'm a creationists and a fundy.
Your faith also believes that evolution answers everything, and
believe it without question. Sorry Marty, you have been programmed
to have faith in these things. Just like the fundies have faith,
sorry to say poor old ignorant Marty.
ML> Nothing that you could possibly understand, at least.
You have time and time again, proved that you can't even align
yourself with the truth. Try again, fool!
ML> "Fool hearted"? Watch it, Billyboy. You're clown suit's really
ML> beginning to unravel now.
Poor Marty just keeps throwing out excuses for his denial problem.
Someday you are going to have to face the truth. The longer you
wait, the longer it is going to hurt. Although you could always take
the shortcut and kill yourself. Then you would also learn what
happens to us at death as well.
BW> that walks and talks like a fundy from the other side.
ML> I trust you have evidence for this, another is a long list of
ML> your moronic claims?
Damn you are really dumb. Time and time I show you how you believe
by faith, believe in your own lies, shown how you have been
programmed well, and here you sit and deny hearing anything. Are you
truly this damn stupid Marty? Or is this just great acting?
BW> Marty, when evidence uncovered by science itself leads to a
BW> conflict with the articles of faith in their profession.
"Articles of faith"? And these are?
The current theories which are accepted by their faith you damn
stupid moron! I swear you have no common sense at all. I can't even
have an intelligent conversation with you because you are just too
damn stupid to understand eve3n the basics. Damn you are so damn
dumb. Maybe ending your life would be far better for you then living
it out in total ignorance.
BW> It turns out that the scientist behaves the way the rest of us
BW> do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence. They
BW> become irritated, they pretend the conflict does not exist, or
BW> they paper it over with meaningless phrases. Yes Marty, this is
BW> exactly what you have done.
ML> Utter horseshit on so many levels. Science neither desires nor
ML> requires beliefs. Your claim to the contrary is fallacious.
ML> Strike one.
Pure bullshit Marty. My statement is almost a direct quote from
Robert Jastrow, who is a scientist and was commenting on the
evidence that pointed to the existence that the Universe was started
with a big bang. And many astronomers fall into denial when the
evidence aligned with the biblical view, rather than the old
scientific theories which they wanted to prove differently.
--- PPoint 2.00
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