God Damned Fundies!
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Dec 96 10:33:00
EID:d432 21925420
December 19 Thursday
HOPE BEYOND HOPE
Read: Jeremiah 17:1-8
Blessed is the man who trusts
in the Lord, and whose hope
is the Lord. -Jeremiah 17:7
The English poet Alexander Pope wrote, "Hope springs
eternal in the human breast: Man never is, but always to
be blest." But where does man turn when hope dries up?
The director of a medical clinic told of a terminally
ill young man who came in for his usual treatment. A
new doctor who was on duty said to him casually and
cruelly, "You know don't you, that you won't live out
the year?"
As the young man left, he stopped by the director's
desk and wept. "That man took away my hope," he blurted
out.
"I guess he did," replied the director. "Maybe it's
time to find a new one."
Commenting on this, Lewis Smedes wrote, "Is there a
hope when hope is taken away? Is there hope when the
situation is hopeless? That question leads us to
Christian hope, for in the Bible, hope is no longer a
passion for the possible. It becomes a passion for the
promise."
When our expectation is rooted in God and in His Son
Jesus Christ as our Savior from sin and death, the
blessing that Alexander Pope says we are always looking
for becomes a present reality. Because God is the God
of hope (Rom. 15:13), He alone keeps hope flowing when
its springs dry up in the human breast.
-Dennis J. De Haan
My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name. -Mote
THE SECRET OF COPING
IS HOPING IN GOD.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 19 Dec 96 11:49:00
EID:d432 21935e20
December 20 Friday
THANKS FOR INCONVENIENCE
Read: Luke 2:1-7
Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for
He is good! -Psalm 118:29
Thanking God for the good things He has given us comes
pretty easy. But thanking Him for an enduring
"inconvenience" can be difficult.
Moira MacLachlan (a pen name) experienced a
shattering and life-altering event when she was raped
and became pregnant. Because of her decision to raise
the child, there would be a daily reminder of this
violent disruption of life.
Moira cautiously likens her situation to Mary's
unexpected pregnancy. She writes, "This world considers
any disruption of its thoroughly detailed preparation
for a life of convenience a rational excuse for
unbridled anguish and rebellion. To [the world], the
thankful prayer I raise to God for the radical explosion
that took place in my life is akin to insanity. The
disruptions in the plans of Mary and me served to bring
us both to the same conclusion: Sometimes God's purpose
in shattering the peace in our lives is to remind us
that He has a purpose for everything." Moira thanks God
for her beautiful child, and concludes, "Don't pray for
a life of convenience, you might get it - and wouldn't
that be too bad?"
If you're enduring a long-term "inconvenience,"
consider thanking God for what He has taught you through
it.
-David C. Egner
I thank You, Lord, for bitter things,
They've been a friend of grace;
They've driven me from paths of ease
To seek the Father's face. -Anon.
MAKE FRIENDS WITH YOUR TRIALS,
AND YOU WILL LEARN FROM THEM.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 20 Dec 96 11:30:00
EID:d432 21945bc0
December 21 Saturday
WHY DOES IT MATTER?
Read: James 3:1-11
I said, "I will guard my ways,
lest I sin with my tongue.
-Psalm 39:1
As I watched a network TV news magazine explore the
growing use of foul language in America, I was pleased
to see that someone had noticed the problem. With TV
itself contributing to the growing use of swearing and
profanity, it was surprising to see the subject
addressed. But when the newsman finished his report,
his comments revealed a common opinion. He concluded,
"It's jut words. What does it hurt?"
If we base what we do in this world on personal
opinions, that conclusion is as good as any other. But
we can't do that. We must use a standard greater than
ourselves. For believers in Jesus Christ, that standard
is the Bible.
According to God's Word, and out of love for Him, the
words we use should be chosen carefully. First, we must
never use God's name in any way that irreverently
addresses Him or disrespectfully speaks of Him (Ex.
20:7). Second, our tongue should be used for blessing
others, not cursing them (Jas. 3:10). And third, no
corrupt language should pass through our lips (Eph.
4:29).
Why should we avoid bad language? Because God says we
should keep our words pure. And it pleases Him when we
obey.
-J. David Branon
Lord, help us to control our tongues,
To clean up what we say,
To use words that will edify,
To honor You today. -Sper
CHILDREN OF THE KING
SHOULD USE THE LANGUAGE OF THE COURT.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:27:00
EID:d432 21955b60
December 22 Sunday
NO OTHER NAME
Read: Isaiah 9:1-7
There is no other name under
heaven given among men by
which we must be saved.
-Acts 4:12
The angel announced to Joseph, "You shall call His
name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins"
(Mt. 1:21).
The name Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew word
Joshua, which is a contraction of two words, Jehovah and
Hoshea, which means "God the Savior" or "Savior God."
This is His name. This is the name which is above
every name, and the name of the only One who can save
us. No one can take His place or approach God without
Him.
We respect the names of the patriarchs of the Bible
and the godly men and women of more recent history, but
everyone will one day bow before Jesus (Phil. 2:9-11).
Even His own mother acknowledged her need of a Savior
(Lk. 1:37). Jesus alone is the mediator between God
and man (1 Tim. 2:5-6).
Yes, we honor godly men and women of the Bible. And
we give due respect to those who throughout history have
faithfully lived for Christ and proclaimed the gospel.
But we are not to worship them or pray to them. Jesus
alone is the One whose name means "Savior." He is the
Son of God, of whom Isaiah proclaimed, "His name will be
called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting
Father, Prince of Peace" (9:6).
-M.R. De Haan, M.D.
My heart is stirred whene'er I think of Jesus,
That blessed Name which sets the captive free;
The only Name through which I find salvation;
No name on earth has meant so much to me. -Eliason
FOR TIME AND ETERNITY, JESUS IS ALL WE NEED.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class,
Grand Rapids,Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 2285/100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:07
EID:82d8 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 21907528
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi David!
Re:
DR>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
DR>He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact that it
DR>is Christian-like to kill.
Help me. Where did you find that?
Thank you
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ In, not of, in, not of, in, not of, in...
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
* Origin: The Classic BBS * Upper Darby, PA, USA * 610-394-9392 (1:273/416)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 273/416 40 420 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Christianity #1 of 6
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:08
EID:88ba 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 21907529
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi David!
I said:
DR>CH> Christian's are notorious for being descriminated
DR>CH> against.
You brought up:
DR>LIFE IN OUR ANTI-CHRISTIAN AMERICA
DR>Compiled by Robby Berry
DR>Copyright (c) Internet Infidels 1996. All rights reserved.
(much deleted)
DR>I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into the open.
DR>The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions.
DR>Consider:
DR> 1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that
DR>Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
George is not an elected Christian spokesman. His statement is
acceptable to me. Christianity has little to do with patriotism. As for
citizenship, they identify with being "not of this world". Of course, we
reside for now in various countries. American, Canadian, French... is
secondary to being a Christian.
DR> 2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local
DR>churches.
Better to give speeches to the more easily confused!
DR> 3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians.
DR>The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists as
DR>Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the
DR>Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther
DR>King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks
DR>on all forms of Christianity.
Huh?
I deleted many of the items, because they were apparently "tongue-in
cheek" comments, without merit. But:
DR> 11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian priests
DR>as they were going to work in their churches. Similarly, atheists are
DR>well known for blockading churches on Sunday mornings.
Actually true. The priests (and other missionaries) killed were
primarily in "third world" countries, but the problems at churches has
been occuring in this country. Primarily "gays", which may or may not be
atheist.
DR> 13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the
DR>Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court
DR>cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who
DR>insisted on swearing on a Bible.
If you knew the Bible's instruction on oaths, you would know why
Christians often "affirm", and will not "swear".
DR> 14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but
DR>those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will be
DR>politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
The second part is true in some public schools, and some industry.
DR> 15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly
DR>impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as
DR>Christmas.
Right! Many stores require employees (sales clerks, cash register
operators, food service, drug stores... etc.) to work, to get more last
minute sales. Another problem day for many is "Good Friday". This day
has more meaning for most Christians than does Christmas, but is
recognized by few employers.
DR> 16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that
DR>pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people
DR>say "Darwin bless you". Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common
DR>cussword.
In the "yes/no" column, the writer got this right, but for the wrong
reasons. Saying "bless you" is based on superstition, and recognizes
"evil spirits". Christianity does not support superstition.
David, most of these writings were not on target considering the topic,
but I read them all, smiled on some, and thought about others as they
relate to my own experiences.
Concerning descriminating against Christians, there is much that goes on
that does not make the "news" you listen to. Missionaries are killed,
tortured, jailed, in parts of the world. This is only because others
fear what they teach. I am not aware of those without "theism" being
killed, tortured, or jailed for being a-thiestic. This certainly did
happen in the distant past, I acknowledge.
Modern issue: two years ago my son wanted to start a Bible Study Club at
High School. About a dozen others wanted to meet during a "free" period
that other clubs met, or others yet simply had study halls.
At first the school said: "Fine. Get a Sponsor, and a room to meet."
He found both. The school librarian was a Christian, was happy to be a
sponsor, and had authority over a room attached to the library.
The school then told the librarian that she better not volunteer for
this, because the school should have no involvement with "religion".
So we had a "Catch 22". A Sponsor must be found, but a Sponsor was not
permitted.
Then the Club members were told:
they could only meet after school hours.
they had to get proof of liability insurance.
they would miss the school bus ride home.
they had to fill out an application as an "outside group".
they had to face two school lawyers for approval.
No other (minus-theism) clubs had this descrimination!
The kids quickly got a 100 signature petition supporting the right of
this club to meet just like the other clubs, but no budge.
It took a few months, and a private attorney, to convince the school
that this descrimination was illegal.
No other clubs had to go through this.
Also... though the Bible Study Club was open to ALL, Christian and non-
Christian alike, certain other clubs did limit membership:
Some clubs were for girls, or guys, only.
One club was for "people of color" only.
In some, you had to sing, or play a musical instrument.
The Christian did not descriminate against ANY. Though they were
descriminated against. BTW - this is a common situation around the
country.
Love
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ I surrendered.
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
* Origin: The Classic BBS * Upper Darby, PA, USA * 610-394-9392 (1:273/416)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 273/416 40 420 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:59:08
EID:2cd9 21953f60
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 2190752a
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Hi Mimi!
I said:
MM>CH> As for classifying me, I hate no one.
You said:
MM>Good! Now defend Luther's anti-semitism, please
I am not Lutheran, and so, do not represent that particular faith, or
any of it's individuals. But Luther did have a lot of good points.
If you want to pick on Luther, I hear he was quite obnoxious among his
contemporaries, and could even be nasty. I also heard he drank a bit
much at times.
As for defending anti-semitism... I won't!
I have a very soft heart for Jewish heritage, and I too, hurt with their
suffering.
Love
---
þ OLX 2.1 TD þ I surrendered.
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
* Origin: The Classic BBS * Upper Darby, PA, USA * 610-394-9392 (1:273/416)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 273/416 40 420 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:49:29
EID:99a2 21967e20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7283b139
The following is from the Protevangelion of James, an apocryphal
gospel which was quoted as authoratative by a number of the early
Church Fathers.
14:13 Then the midwife cried out, and said, How glorious a day is
this , wherein mine eyes have seen this extraordinary sight!
14:14 And the midwife went out from the cave, and Salome met her.
14:15 And the midwife said to her, Salome, Salome, I will tell you
a most suprising thing which I saw,
14:16 A virgin hath brought forth, which is a thing contrary to
nature.
14:17 To which Salome replied, As the Lord my God liveth, unless
I receive particular proof of this matter, I will not
believe that a virgin hath brought forth.
14:18 Then Salome went in, and the midwife said, Mary, shew thyself
for a great controversy is risen concerning thee.
14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 12:45:54
EID:50f7 219465a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb5
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a680
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Marilyn and Fredric were killing time yakking about End Times are upon us!
Again. And again. And again.:
mb> They are required to have a year's supply of food so they can
mb> care for their family in case of a calamity of any kind (i.e.,
mb> prolonged unemployment, nuclear attack, famine, debilitating
mb> physical conditions, etc.).
FR> My family was told that the "end times" was almost upon us and at that
FR> time Mormons wouldn't be able to buy food or get water unless they
FR> "accepted the mark." To address that fictional problem, they
FR> concocted the excuse of selling food, water, and survivalist equipment
FR> to members.
FR> Now the Mormon cult houses I was dragged into might have been
FR> different ideologically or different in their methodology for selling
FR> the stuff yet you can't say that what I was told isn't used as a
FR> reason. It most certainly is.
I recall hearing that as, at least, the "official" reason....but my ex-roomie,
also a mormon, was more inclined to see it practically, as a means to be
secure during a crisis or emergency.
No Mormon-purchased "survivalist" gear that I knew of...but there was the
wheat, the canned goods, candles, blankets (old ones, not bought from the
LDS
church).
In fact, as a pair of single moms on a VERY limitted income, we dipped into
the food stash more than once and made sure to keep it replenished. I
don't
get as organized about it as she was, but i still feel far more secure knowing
i have food in the house. And military families overseas are told to keep
a
"go-bag" packed with a limited version of the same - about a weeks worth
of
haulable supplies/food that can be grabbed on short notice in case of a
bug out.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ ...And in atonement thou must supply pizza and sin again
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 20 Dec 96 18:23:28
EID:f11e 219492e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb6
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 72601bd2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
All and J.J. were killing time yakking about CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE:
VR> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
JH> I don't know if that's FAQ material or not...
JH> But I'm going to be giggling over it for at least a week.
hehe...so are we, dear, so are we....
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "We met in church... she was cleanin' it and I was robbin' it."
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:17:30
EID:d902 21958220
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb7
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32baf062
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Michael and Steve were killing time yakking about purpose and ethics:
JJ>> Your demands for evidence make you just another fundamentalist,
JJ>> Stevie.
SQ> His inability to back what he says makes -him- a Fundamentalist.
MH> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations suggest you know you
MH> have none.
SQ> Am I being defended by -another- Michael Hardy from
SQ> Alabama? :)
(G) nope.
"There can be only one..."
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:25:48
EID:1e28 21958320
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb8
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A57E814
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Judith were killing time yakking about ask and ye shall rece:
AS> start one of our own. (#irc, despite recent forays where I had
AS> everybody challenging me on why we think God exists...nothing like
AS> being the lone person in a big argument, ENORMOUS fun...really doesn't
AS> lend itself to SERIOUS discussion as well as this medium.)
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
LOL!!
Touche.
It's MUCH harder to baffle 'em with bullshit when they don't have to wait
2
days and 1000 messages between responses.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Oh, blasphemer," said Pooh, to the heathen who debunked his arguments
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:37:40
EID:6481 219584a0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb9
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
STEVE and DAVID were killing time yakking about FAQ!:
DR> After the helicopter BOMBED the shopping center with
DR> turkeys, Herb, Andy, and the Big Guy gather in the
DR> office, shocked and dismayed. After a long moment of
DR> silence, Herb said he thought turkeys could fly.
DR> I loved that show!
(G) Me too...except...
I'm almost *positive* it was the Big Guy himself that delivered the final
punchline...
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ A turkey roast is a foul ball...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: [1/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:16:55
EID:6356 21959a00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fba
REPLY: 1:225/364.4@FidoNet 4b1b1ddc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 1 of 2...
ALL and John were killing time yakking about HOLYSMOKE:
JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ> by no longer posting here.
LOL! Taking your marbles and going home, huh?
JJ> There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ> or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
is
JJ> only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only reason
Mmmm...no, it is to ridicule and malign anyone of any ilk that decides to
push their unevidenced OPINIONS on others and insist they have the right
to
do so without refute. In the case of those proposing LEGAL requirements
to
act as though one agreed with those opinions, they are dealt with harshly.
If it seems that Christians are the sole target to you, that is perhaps
due
to the fact that so MUCH of Christian opinion includes the justification
for
and indeed, a MANDATE, to push those views and claim that detrimental effects
on them in THIS life are unimportant.
As to maligning Christ - what makes you assume that they buy into that as
a
legitimate title for the man who may or may not have existed a couple thousand
years ago? One cannot malign what they do not believe in...certainly not
by
pointing out that they don't believe it. Or do you 'malign' the Easter Bunny
and Santa Claus?
JJ> the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the roasting and
JJ> ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of dialogue or
JJ> debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and arrogant for
Oh, but there are many here who engage in both dialogue AND debate. If you
have not found it, it's because you have failed to offer anything worthy
of
either one. Be real, now...what you are saying is that they won't begin,
as
you do, with an ASSUMPTION of the validity of Christ and work from there...
they make you TRULY start from scratch, and you aren't used to having to
think from outside the parameters of your faith.
JJ> the most part. To continue posting and "debating" with them is
JJ> tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction. To
JJ> continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to
JJ> "cast your pearls before swine".
And yet....you just HAD to to post this longish complaint letter to try
to get
the last word in...do you think you CAN quit? If so, why didn't you just
quit
downloading packets and shut up? And why, if YOU no longer wish to participate,
do you desire to try to convince other believers into marching out with
you?
Such a herd mentality!
JJ> Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ> presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
No, he doesn't. Jesse has no desire to touch these hellbound hearts. Like
many, he is here because it provides a place to say those things that would
not be "pretty" if said in our daily lives.
JJ> will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ> your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ> them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ> them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant and
JJ> "persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ> of credence by HolySmokers.
Christian tolerance = pronouncing the eternal damnation of those who disagree
with you...repeatedly? It included telling someone that their actions and
motives are worthless if not in accord with what one's own ego says is
worthwhile? Interesting.
JJ> ALL CHRISTIANS UNITE....no longer post here...let the word be spread
JJ> through all the echoes...to all brothers and sisters...that henceforth
JJ> Christians will no longer post to HOLYSMOKE....and by doing so we will
JJ> bring about the demise of the beast that is devoted to bringing about
JJ> the downfall of the followers of Jesus...if such a thing were
Wow. Bet the Holy Spirit was just coursing right THRU you while you typed
that! How ponderous can you get?
(PS: Note to Sean...PLEASE FAQ that statement of his!)
JJ> possible:-). After weeks or months of complaining to each other,
JJ> without any individuals to ridicule, they will eventually go the way
JJ> of the DoDo.
But, God sends us new fundies on a regular basis....the supply shows no
signs
of diminishing.
And between times, we always have the Colorado crowd! hehe
JJ> What say all, can we do it....I think we can if we spread
>>> Continued to next message...
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:17:20
EID:a053 21959a20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fbb
REPLY: 1:225/364.4@FidoNet 4b1b1ddc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
>>> Part 2 of 2...
No, I don't think you can...it's been a long running matter of discussion
about what leads you all to come in and stay. Psychologically, there is
a
certain type of "Believe or burn" christian that NEEDS Holysmoke.
JJ> the word through whatever means is available. What a challenge! Can
we
JJ> topple the "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year. Really think
JJ> about it. WE CAN DO IT! Let the only messages we post here promote
Hehe...oh, PLEASE spread the word far and wide...this will be fun.
Yes, such "boycotts" have always worked SO well for you....I've seen many
a
mediocre movie turn into blockbusters due only curiousity about what the
big
deal was. And in THIS case, you will attract more of the rabid fundies we
love
so well...
JJ> this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or his
JJ> teachings....their hearts have been hardened, and their eyes have been
JJ> blinded. To continue to post "Jesus" is to "cast your pearls before
JJ> the swine"...."shake the dust off your sandals and move on!"
And yet, you aren't actually proposing anything so sensible as "moving on",
are you?
JJ> There are many other message areas where one can spread the word,
JJ> where one is at least tolerated without such ridicule and contempt as
Exactly. So why are you here? Spread the word where it already is accepted.
If "the word" doesn't hold up to the scrutiny of those who don't automagically
accept it as truth before you open your mouth, though, you might want to
question WHY..
JJ> is displayed here. The only reason nonbelievers post here is to take
JJ> part in the "stoning" of believers. Let us all...of all denominations
:) Thank you for confirming one of the reasons we've suspected....a desire
for martyrdom.
JJ> and none...from the Catholics...to the pentecostals...the
JJ> Baptists...the Anglicans..the Steve Winters...the Latter Day
JJ> Saints...the Mormans...all who I have failed to mention...let us all
JJ> cease and desist from posting here, except to spread the same
JJ> message....Christians...of all stripes...people of all denominations
JJ> and religions....get out! Do not post here any longer...do not become
JJ> a whipping boy/girl for these anti-god people!
Ooooh....Spirit gotcha again. Do you think all sing-songy while you type
this
stuff?
JJ> After years of reading and posting here....I have come to the
Years? YEARS?? Oh, I DO want to know what held YOU so long...I suspect you'll
never take a serious look into that...it would be most uncomfortable for
you.
No, dear. You won't leave.. you won't stay away long. You NEED Holysmoke.
JJ> tolerance here, from those who regularly attack religion. They are
JJ> unbending, unyielding and unobjective, with no real interest in the
JJ> concept of God, and are only concerned with baiting believers and
JJ> doing their best to make fools of them all.
No one can make a fool out of you without your consent. Quit offering such
fertile material to display as evidence of your foolishness.
As to bending...how much time, in these last few YEARS have you spent seriously
listening to WHY those who are hostile toward your religion?
JJ> LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY LONGER...EXCEPT TO
JJ> SPREAD THIS MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE
JJ> SWINE...LET US SPEND OUR TIME POSTING TO OTHER MESSAGE AREAS WHERE
JJ> THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH TO
JJ> HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY, LET
JJ> US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND HEARTS TO
JJ> FEEL!
Tell that Spirit to lower the volume. You're getting hoarse.
JJ> Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with
JJ> them..he only posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook!
JJ> Let us all do the same....let us either get out of here
JJ> altogether...or let us all barrage them with scripture....with no
JJ> response to the slap on the cheek, except that of quoting more
JJ> scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
Yes...lets leave. But don't leave. Let's just go...sort of. Maybe. Yea,
that's
the ticket.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:06:54
EID:908a 219598c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fbc
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bb069e
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Don were killing time yakking about Warring christanic factio:
LB> :) Its the same Michael Hardy.
DM> Wonders will never cease--I looked at some of his posts and he
DM> is sounding almost human.
hehe...he was quite human before.
Perhaps he needed to step away from having to defend every single thing
he
said long enough to let himself think about what he really believed.
DM> So where have you been keeping youself, lady? (Would that
DM> qualify as being a "kept woman?)
LOL! We're I a kept woman, I would INSIST on lots more baubles than I currently
have. (G)
I needed to extricate myself from a conversation here that had become
exsessively tedious, and in so doing wound up taking a breather for awhile
from the whole thing.
You can thank Katherine, Judith and a few others for insisting on gossiping
in IRC about the latest batch of wierdos - had to come see for myself. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "The Lord is telling me to stay awhile." - Jesse Jones, 11/28/93
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: stargoat crap.
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:14:40
EID:5358 2194b1c0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 93068837
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1041
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CJ> Actually, there seems to have been some difference of
CJ> opinion among early Christians about the sex of The Spook.
CJ> Of the handful of sentences preserved in The Gospel According to the
CJ> Hebrews by disapproving Church Fathers, is one in which Jesus says
CJ> that his mother was the Holy Spirit.
Delightful. Either it's something he would likely have said, fitting
the pattern of my take on the synoptic gospels, or it's something I
wishfully think he might have said (being somewhat of a fan and all).
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:18:08
EID:8482 2194b240
REPLY: 1:261/1137 93100294
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb10ca
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CJ> The Irish??? I'm not aware that they invaded any other
CJ> country than Canada.
Well, there was the New York City and Boston police departments.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: feed
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:25:42
EID:a14e 2194b320
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b988a80
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb12f2
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Mimi Milstein to David Worrell:
Hi, Mimi -
DW>> You do have to use a telnet client
DW>> that allows downloads using one of the commonly accepted BBS
DW>> file transfer protocols, though.
Anyone is invited to call. The address is bbs.sbase.com. I've
got 4 telnet sessions going, and am delighted to see much more
action internationally than I see over the phone lines. It's just
a normal Fidonet BBS accessible via telnet.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 20 Dec 96 22:29:08
EID:2d7a 2194b3a0
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b9735e1
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1410
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS> The secret of the problem is in playing the game Jesse sets
RS> up by Jesse's rules. In reality, if one is conscious that
RS> one does do good things, and is sure of oneself, one doesn't
RS> need to tell Jesse shit, or attempt in any way to justify
RS> one's ways.
When I was a boy scout, I was taught that if you told someone
about a 'good deed' you did, it was cancelled out. I've always
held that as an axiom.
RS> As Harlan Ellison
RS> wrote years ago, we all do good things for others because, on
RS> the most basic level there is, it makes us feel good to do
RS> them.
Ah, the nature of altruism. But even (the despised) B. F. Skinner
would have probably agreed that once one learns to look more than
10 minutes into the future, one discovers that a balanced life
is rewarding. Just not instantly.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Assisted Suicide
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:39:20
EID:553a 2194bce0
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32B78E46
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb23a9
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>>>> Forcing people who want to die to stay alive. Why make sense?
RV> I was kind of looking at it as if legal for one group ie: the old and
RV> tried or the fatal sick. Then it would also have to be open for
RV> anyone. If it every gets allowed here, then i can see another
RV> battle like the anti-abortion group. However the rules are apply it
RV> would be another can or worms.
Oh, there is never any shortage of people who know better than others
how those others ought to live or die. When you count the number of
assisted suicides (even the number of suicides) it is a VERY small
part of the population. There are many more people talking about it
than are seriously considering it.
RV> It is what i would support, then like i also indicated. Even I, would
RV> find it hard to allow the young access to it and thats not being
RV> fair.
Do you think that's a similar phenomenon to the people who don't trust
the terminally ill to end their own lives?
RV> I've always wonder to myself, if i have the right to interfear in
RV> their life. They may have presented their wish to me and
RV> if i happen to have turn them on their path, by accident i may turn
RV> them on a worst path. That is my biggest fear when this happens.
We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
within an environment from which that person will choose death to
escape, one other cannot take responsibility for the choice of
direction at each corner. That childrearing will not be undone in
a few conversations. If we are the first positive presence in such
a tragic life, how could something we say cause a death if we are
acting without doubt in that person's best interest?
If we were to earn a trust and betray it, yes, that could mitigate
suicide. But that would take a betrayal.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCDDDDDE
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:11:46
EID:1a91 2194b960
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 72601bd2
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb1d59
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
VR>> J.J. I would like to ask you, What church you are going to?
JH> I don't know if that's FAQ material or not...
JH> But I'm going to be giggling over it for at least a week.
And here I was, waiting for the shoe to drop. What church
are you going to WHAT?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:40:48
EID:70bd 2194bd00
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b9830b
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb2400
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Don Martin to Nate Cookson:
NC>> But here are some of the ways abortionists dispose of the dead
NC>> fetuses:
NC>> Put tem down the garbage disposal, stick them in garbage bags and
NC>> stash them in a store room to rot. Dumped in trash bags along with
DM> etc.
DM> So? It surprises you that tissue removed in an operation
DM> is disposed of in ways that clash with your doubtless
DM> refined sense of aesthetics?
Actually, he's full of shit and then more. I've never heard of
a municipality or any other community here or anywhere that does
not have a set of rules regarding medical waste. We don't want
ebola-infected amputated feet surfacing at landfill sites, now
do we? That's why hospitals have 800C incinerators and independent
clinics have contracts with them. What does this idiot think
happens to possibly infected needles? Ground into our Burger
King food, no doubt.
One of the reasons I like this echo is that every once in a while
I get to thinking I've seen everything...
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 20 Dec 96 23:32:36
EID:c531 2194bc00
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32b9c123
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bb227d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Sue Armstrong to Dave Hamilton:
CJ>> Another major reason hops are used, I understand, as a
CJ>> preservative. The typical US mega-brand of beer uses little or no
CJ>> hops, which is one reason the taste deteriorates so badly on the
CJ>> shelf.
DH>> Oh, *that's* what it is.
SA> I was kinda wondering myself. It tastes like it goes skunky a mere
SA> hour after it leaves the brewery.
I guess I've just never had it within an hour of leaving
the brewery to be able to appreciate any improvement on the
shelf stuff. It tastes like salt water to me.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 21 Dec 96 13:23:24
EID:1d20 21956ae0
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2baa7360
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bbe71b
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Mimi Milstein to Dave Hamilton:
MM> Thus gun control has become meaningless. It is only possible
MM> to control 'the good guys' with the permits, while all the
MM> baddies can go on and play havoc. Unfortunately armed robberies
MM> are as common as dirt.
Gun control here is simply a reflection of what the general
population wants. Anyone who really wants a gun can get one -
legally or not. Hunting and sporting are open to anyone who
wants to participate but they are simply not that popular.
We really don't have a strong division of classes here, which
I suspect keeps the motivation to take what others have at
a lower level than one might see in other places. If I were
black, living in a big city with restricted opportunity,
despite being told by everyone that my opportunities were
the same as everyone else's, I could imagine that violence
might become part of my repertoire.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 21 Dec 96 23:50:20
EID:10a2 2195be40
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 cb0767b5
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bc7a14
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Dan Ceppa to Dave Hamilton:
DH>> Canada will never become a threat, unless of course you somehow get
DH>> sucked into becoming bilingual. That's worth defending.
DC> It already is becoming bilingual. There are areas of this
DC> country that you can't get a job unless you speak the "native"
DC> language.
But, does every commercial good, product, rice crispies
box have bilingual packaging? That's expensive to implement.
Freeway signs for entire nation with blingual sets of each
sign. The right to have any judicial process where you
live in either language?
DC> As Quebec is hurting you, places like Miami are starting to
DC> hurt us.
Is Miami attempting to get the restof the country to speak
Spanish, while remvoving all English signs from businesses,
traffic warnings, and hospitals?
DC> I have nothing against knowing more than one language. I
DC> do have a problem with forcing everyone to have to know
DC> more than one just to get a job.
I think it's a wonderful personal choice to make.
DC> It really is a shame that Esperanto didn't make it. Then
DC> again, the most spoken language today is English, or at
DC> least a form of it. It may eventually become the universal
DC> language. But, until it, or another language does, there
DC> will be the problems as mentioned above.
English seems to be cutting it as the language of the internet.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:16:12
EID:8f10 21968200
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0039d1ea
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd603f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>> More likely, Canada's resources (including but not limited
DH>> to water) will become essential.
DW> Then you would become a threat for standing between us and the
DW> resources we want. Back to point one.
I suppose. Obstacle would seem a better fit.
DW> I still find the idea of you guys cowering in fear of an imminent US
DW> invasion to be quite amusing. :)
I don't know anyone who expects a physical invasion. Economic and
cultural influence will do.
DW> I find the idea of a Canadian intelligence service even more amusing.
Yah, we wouldn't even know they exist if it weren't for their
basketball team.
DW> What the hell do they do all day when not looking for US boogeymen,
DW> throw pot-luck dinners for the Canadian Armed (if you can call it
DW> that) Forces? :)
This year, they busied themselves with *investigating* the armed
forces. And they won. The top general resigned and an entire
regiment was disbanded.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: PROBLEM OF PAIN SUMMA
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:46:44
EID:5788 219685c0
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1270
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6793
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Chris Green to Dave Hamilton:
CG>> That is from the 1611 King James Version, which is translated from
CG>> the Latin.
DH>> And your source for this claim is ?
CG> Is it your intent to be funny, perhaps?
No. We're accustomed to citing sources here.
CG> My sources for the above are: Alan R. Millard, 'Rankin Senior
CG> Lecturer in Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages', University of
CG> Liverpool; Dr. Harold Rowdon, Lecturer in Church History, London
CG> Bible College; and the Rev. Michael Beasley who is to be found in the
CG> UK Fidonet echo 'Vicars'.
Thank you.
"Surprisingly, perhaps, for an age that was so familiar
with Latin and Greek, the six committees were instructed
to base their Authorized Version upon the previous
*English* versions, translating afresh, but also comparing
their work with the other vernacular Bibles, from Tyndale
to Parker."
_The_Story_of_English_, McCrum, MacNeil & Cran, 1986.
Further, (from the same reference) the Authorized version was
released in the same year Shakespeare wrote 'The Tempest'. The
vocabulary of the KJV was held dumbed-down to 8,000 words, while
Shakespeare used a vocabulary of 30,000 words, targeting the
same audience. The mandate of the KJV was that it be more poetic
than previous versions.
CG> Have a pleasant Christmas and New Year.
Thank you, same to you.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again. And again.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:34:21
EID:4be0 21968440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 728416ea
REPLY: 1:358/1 4a95a1a3
On Dec 14 01:25 96, Quentin Fai of 1:358/1 wrote:
QF> So, that's why every Mormon I know has a massive stockpile
QF> of food in their basements, as well as why they seem so
QF> obsessed with canning equipment. [...]
Actually, that's just about the only aspect of the Mormon
"lifestyle" that makes even a lick of sense. If you are willing
to devote the storage space to that food, your costs go way
down. It's much cheaper (about 50-20%) to buy shit by the case
instead of by the single consumer unit. Not only is it cheaper,
but you only have to go to the grocery store when you WANT to.
Myself, I live in an apartment; but I do buy NOODLES by the case.
Of course, leave it to the Mormons to screw up any good idea, even
if it's one of their own. The hoarding isn't done on a simple family
by family basis: it's overseen and managed so that one family ends
up with all the toilet paper and sanitary products, another with all
soap products, another with some other consumable.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Don Martin
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:01:14
EID:c8f5 21955820
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32bd769b
DAVID RICE said "Marty knows everything" to DON MARTIN, adding:
>DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by
>DR> your own canard
DM> Leave his rubber duckie out of this. It is "petard" you
DM> are thinking of. And the verb is "hoist", just like with
DM> sails.
DR> I ran a "word search" on the words "lie" and "falsehood,"
DR> and the list included "canard," which I preferred. I have
DR> a long list of interesting words which I use in writing.
Be that as it may, one is ill-advised to misuse cliches in
writing. The original "hoist by his own petard" refers to a late
medieval/early renaissance sapping device for destroying the walls
of a beseiged town, and is the analogy of the bomber being blown up
by his own bomb. As such, it is more at home with ideas of
machination than with those of lying. I applaud your giving
delightful old words a new chance in the sun, but they are better
served when the chance is an accurate one.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 261/1000 1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:02:54
EID:4a6c 2196a840
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda23e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b013a68b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Martis dies December 17 1996, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR> It was far more evil than something so mundane. His presumption was
to
FR> try to top what he wanted to pretend was the best of the best of atheist
FR> good deeds.
That's how I saw it as well. A "heathen" could tell him tomorrow that he
saved the planet, and we'd probably get 'Oh yeah? Well _I_ did...'
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:06:44
EID:6052 2196a8c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda346
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Hey, what happened with the watch?
Dies solis December 15 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the denizens
JJ>> of this hell hole
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
Funny how he evades THIS question, too.
JJ>> are not in any way typical of that small portion of atheists in this
JJ>> country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping generalizations?
He personally knows all the other atheists. :-/
ML> Is this _just_ your opinion or do you have some evidence with
ML> which to back it?
"That's a stupid question. I will not answer it."
JJ>> The writer's point is well taken: those
JJ>> participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
While Jones is ignorant of atheism, period.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:11:12
EID:a7f5 2196a960
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda444
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b9735e1
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Richard!
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit Richard Smith ad ALL:
RS> The secret of the problem is in playing the game Jesse sets
RS> up by Jesse's rules.
Anybody who enumerates what "good things" they have done DOES play by Jesse's
rules. I wonder what he did to make us all accountable to him.
RS> first would be honest, the second slavery. Ignore Jesse. Let
RS> him go rant somewhere else . . .
He'll stay. He needs this place, just like some people need a liver.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Nick Andre
|Sub: :)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:14:58
EID:9bc8 2196a9c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda4dd
REPLY: 1:340/14 b18bd9f6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit Nick Andre ad All:
NA> Whats everyones view on that stain on the office building in Florida
that
NA> resembles the "virgin" mary? :)
It's a stain.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 22 Dec 96 21:17:50
EID:fb2b 2196aa20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32bda592
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Martis dies December 17 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad ALL:
DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
DR> "prophesies" in the Bible. And did I hear even one word
DR> from the bible worshipers? NOT EVEN ONE PEEP! It is almost
Upload it here, and we'll wave it around. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: ** ALL **
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:27:03
EID:04bb 21968360
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 21968361
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
Hail all!
You probably already know this, but Carl Sagan died early in the morning
on Friday 27. According to our paper (he was a fellow resident of
Ithaca) "He had been battling a rare blood disease known as
myelodysplasia, a form of anemia also known as preleukemia syndrome".
So it goes...
"The job is by no means done. We will look for the boundary between the
solar system and the interstellar medium and then we'll voyage on
forever in the dark between the stars."
Dr. Carl E. Sagan 1934-1996
(Oh, and I'm still trying to recall how to use my .QWK reader)
Cheers!
Mephisto
mephisto@mephistopheles.org
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/mephisto/index.html
... Oh, don't mind me - I'm just looking for new taglines.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
* Origin: GaiaNet BBS * 310-724-8965 (1:102/735)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 102/735 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:24:06
EID:1733 21965b00
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 1d8d41a8
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15b27072
On (21 Dec 96) Jesse Jones wrote to Glen Todd...
JJ> Quoting GLEN TODD to JESSE JONES on 12-18-96
JJ> GT>shows that it _IS_ a direct and blatant violation of the
JJ> Constitution GT>and a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics and
JJ> honour that True
JJ> GT>Folk would do well to shun.
JJ> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4% atheists in the
JJ> U.S.?
Seventeen percent of us in Oregon will openly admit to being
either atheist or agnostic.
... ... Imagine. 9,000,000 sperm and this shithead is the one who won.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 105/40 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:31:45
EID:6133 219663e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 07f558e9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0469137e
On (22 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Gwenny The Pooh...
DW> In a message to Glen Todd you wrote:
DW> GtP> The mistake David is making is that he isn't taking into
DW> GtP> account that women run a little "fatter".
DW> Females (with very few exceptions) weigh less then males of the same
DW> height/build. Your daughter is shorter *and* heavier than I am. It's
a
DW> simple equation. Your adamant denial of the solution to the equation
DW> does nothing but amuse me even more.
Without knowing a great deal more about bone density, muscle-to-fat
ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make a judgment about her
weight.
My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven if I could
get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and I'm 6'1".
... Ñh‹s Ña€lïî h„$ ƒ ûŒrš$ n ‹t - dínt $tŠ†l ¡ç!!!!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 105/40 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff still think Sagan's a Creationist?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:09
EID:20a9 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b445438e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d91
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> You obviously thought that Sagan was a creationist.
BW> I obviously thought nothing of the kind. Not then, now, or
BW> probably in the future. Like usual, Martin the asshole was
BW> wrong again!
FR> You obviously were led to believe that Sagan was a Creationist,
FR> Bill.
No Fredric, I never thought nothing of the kind. It's just factual
in your stupid dreams and also with those that I call morons.
FR> It wasn't until someone else posted the full quote to expose
FR> your dishonesty.
No Fredric, I exposed your foolishness by posting the full quote,
remember? The one which you still ignore! Both Carl Sagan and I
agree on so many of the same issues. He too believes the odds are
against that we are alone. So I suggest you should deal with your
denial problem right now!
FR> It's been explained to you a hundred times, Bill, yet I suppose
FR> it will take another thousand before you start to see the
FR> light... when you yank a quote out of context and post it as
FR> though it were the complete truth, that makes you into a liar.
FR> When you yank a quote out of context and post it as the
FR> complete truth to try to defend a religious occultism of your
FR> own making, that makes you into an evil liar.
Look oh stupid one. You're the moron with the problem, not I! You
claimed that I said Carl Sagan was a creationist. Yet I have
repeatedly ask you and other morons to present prove for your
claims. Yet for years now, you can't prove your claims because you
are a dumb stupid liar and a moron to boot.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Bill Forseth
|Sub: Marty doesn't know! Does this sound like anyone we know?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:22
EID:231d 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 719a0455
REPLY: 1:282/76.0 32ab7b3c
On (08 Dec 96) Bill Forseth wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> You don't seem to understand the thread correctly. Mr. Lepzig
BW> believes in evolution which is guided by mother nature and I am
BW> only suggesting by expressing some alternative views that maybe
BW> mother nature wasn't even that smart to begin with.
BF> And your alternative views are ___________________
BW> Tada what dumb ass?
BF> What are your alternative views? You said you suggested some,
BF> and I asked what they were. Be a man, present them.
Time and time again I have asked you people to keep good notes
because there is no sense going back to square one over and over
again like you people like to do and we get nowhere!
My alternative view is that both atheists and theists are both full
of crap! Both don't view the evidence subjectively because they're
too biased and too brainwashed to do so. Yes, we are back to square
one even years later. What a shame you people can't learn a damn
thing. Isn't this true?
BW> Of course I do. But those lemmings like Lepzig forgets to
BW> include the whole universe into their old lame theories which
BW> just doesn't have all of their pieces fit together correctly.
BF> And your correct-fitting pieces are ___________________
BW> And what are they dumb ass?
BF> No-no, what are YOUR correct fitting pieces, Billy. I think you
BF> have me and you confused :)
Really? Reread what I just said up above.
BF> We were poofed here, then condemned to misery because a snake
BF> talked someone into eating an APPLE? AAAHAHAHAhaha...
What does this has to do with starting an intelligent conversation?
BW> ROTFL... you are so stupid for even mentioning this into a
BW> serious intelligent conversation. Also I noticed that you can't
BW> even keep up with 6th grade spelling either. So go back and
BW> play in your little sand box.
BF> Are you high?
BW> Nope, and you have said nothing and you can't even debate
BW> yourself out of a wet paper bag. So try to say something
BW> meaningful next time Mr. dumb ass!
BF> I haven't even started to debate with you, you haven't said
BF> anything that one could debate with.
That's because you say dumb shit like a snake talked someone into
eating an apple. I don't see this as any sort of useful talk for
starting an intelligent conversation.
BF> You seem more interested in flashing your hostility around than
BF> in participating in a good debate.
Of course, you people incorrectly mislabel others, set in your ways,
are untrainable, stupid and lifelong morons, which an intelligent
person like myself can't even hope to get you people out of the hole
I call square one. But I continue hoping that I'm wrong and that you
morons can someday evolve enough to crawl out of that hole you find
yourselves in.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Bill Forseth
|Sub: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:34
EID:72bd 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 0c0e65bb
REPLY: 1:282/76.0 32ab7b41
On (09 Dec 96) Bill Forseth wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
BF> I asked you a few months ago what agnosticism means to you,
BF> what your beliefs are. You responded with some immemorable
BF> stuff, so I'll ask you again. Warning, I have your previous
BF> reply on disk, and will trot it out at the drop of a hat.
Agnosticism means to me, that one admits to being ignorant as far as
knowing the Universe. Which is unlike atheism and theists who both
claim they know the truth from totally relying on their sheer
arrogance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bill Wolff: Creationist
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:45
EID:5bc5 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 f2d193ed
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab08ee
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:50, Bill Wolff got back to Fredric Rice
BW> To deliberately make Sagan sound like a creationists? Get real
BW> moron. No I deliberately stated a fact moron!
DC> The only thing that is a fact is that you are a moron, Billy.
Ah... only in your dreams, moron!
DC> You expect people to have as short of a memory like you do.
DC> You are mistaken, yet again.
You're the one with the short memory moron. And how about proving
the lie that you had stated that I could prove the existence of god
in 5 minutes. Of which I have not said anything of the kind. But
your so stupid, you still pretend that I did anyway, you foolish
moron with the short memory!
DC> Now, run along and go play in traffic.
DC> ... F.L.D. (fundy learning disorder) poster child: Bill Wolff
Ah... still don't know the truth after all of these years. What a
damn moron you turned out to be. How sad!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Billy has his head up hi
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:20:58
EID:a48c 21961280
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 757528e9
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab09e0
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:48, Bill Wolff got back to Marty Leipzig
SS> You know, it's really amusing to see Idiot Wolff hoist himself
SS> yet again with this glaring missive.
ML> That's O.K. We need fresh chum on my boat.
BW> YOU'LL DIE TRYING SHIT HEAD!
DC> Getting a bit testy, Billy cried Wolff?
Testy? Nope, just being honest. Which is something you apparently
can't do.
DC> The only reason you seem to be posting here is to make that
DC> other liar, Appleton, look good.
Dan, you are one of the worse liar I know. And you're also one of
the stupidest moron I know too.
DC> PS It's not working.
DC> ... Bill Wolff: Lord...Liar...Lunatic.
Once you get out of the dark hole you call a life, you will learn
what a total ass you have made out of yourself.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ceppa, the liar!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:09
EID:8838 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 8102423b
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab0bfe
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:49, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Here you go again, Billy. Deny it yet again. You look so cute
DC> with your ass and mouth puckered up.
BW> You look so stupid trying to see something that isn't there.
DC> The person that I'm typing this message to isn't all there. Get
DC> some help, Billy. Your lying is getting worse.
Still seeing crap that ain't there, eh Dan? How cute!
DC> The only dumb ass here is you, Billy. And, Star Goat is very
DC> upset that you hold the name of His Son in vain.
BW> Seeing Star Goat's and His Son now? You need some serious help!
DC> You're an idiot. And certifiable.
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
doesn't it you little pea brained clueless idiot?
DC> Now, run along and go play in traffic.
BW> See!
DC> You don't, that's for sure, Billy cried Wolff. You are a known
DC> liar. Now you attempt to play the innocent party. That doesn't
DC> wash in here. After all, it's quite the sight to watch as you
DC> pile it on yourself.
I'm innocent because I am innocent you little moron! You continue to
bring up false charges against me and failed to provide any evidence
for your foolish claims. Which makes you just another dumb ass
without a working brain. Happy now, dipshit?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Crying Wolff
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:22
EID:9e3e 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 53afdb8d
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab1cea
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 03:49, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
BW> show me above were I claimed that Carl Sagan is/was a creationists?
DC> Lie again, Billy...
BW> Lie? Get serious! Nobody ever proved I ever said such a claim. And
DC> I am serious, Billy. You are a liar. You have never
DC> demonstrated yourself to be anything else.
Oh poor Dan. Too stupid to understand that I'm the innocent victim
here and I have proved time and time again that you morons are just
stupid fools who clearly fail to even understand even simple facts.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff can't hack it
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:35
EID:033f 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 00497ba9
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8d
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
SM> Bill Wolff was expelled from KINDERGARTEN as un-educABLE.
BW> Boy you morons won't stop at no bullshit, will you? Okay Sean,
BW> liar and moron, please elaborate. Or go and off running with
BW> your tail between your legs once again. I'm not your little
BW> play toy.
FR> Okay, so why _were_ you expelled from Kindergarten then?
BW> Your dishonesty and lies knows no bonds, do they Fredric the
BW> dipshit?
FR> Come now, Bill. You can never seem to answer an
FR> honest question honestly for some reason. You're not a lawyer
FR> by any chance, are you?
I did already answer your slanderous question, Mr. Moron Fredric.
You people are really stupid and don't just play one on the echoes,
right?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist idiot
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:21:48
EID:d77a 219612a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 3f8c89ed
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8e
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
FR> According to the first report, Bill said he could prove that
FR> his gods existed inside of 5 minutes. The bastard's time is up.
DC> Here's another one that you forgot, Billy boy.
BW> Here is another lie you support like a dipshit. Why not prove
BW> evidence for your brainwashed masters instead of just agreeing
BW> with those idiots?
FR> Are you claiming that you need more time?
No Fredric the dipshit, I'm claiming that I said nothing about 5
minutes anywhere. And I am admitting that you are a damn fool for
lying your ass off again.
FR> Or are you admitting that you _don't_ have evidence for your
FR> deity constructs?
What deity constructs Fredric? I'm claiming to say that it's not
logical to think we are alone in this universe. The late Carl Sagan
also believes the same damn thing.
FR> Why not answer questions honestly, Bill? Is it because you're a
FR> Catholic?
I do answer questions honestly you dipshit! The problem is that you
are just a stupid moron who fails to get anything straight. How sad!
And no, you're wrong again, I am not a Catholic or follow any other
faith worship. Not even the faith worship that foolish atheists
follows either.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff still won't
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:01
EID:718a 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b3d6ab5f
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d8f
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> Evolution's both fact and theory. Quit trying to
MG> anthropomorphosize it into some "personal" construct.
BW> Both fact and theory? Please explain how a theory is a fact?
DR> Dozens of people have already explained this basic, fundamental
DR> component of science. Liar Wolff merely refuses to understand
DR> such kindergarten basics.
BW> Poor dumb David. Still listening to your old
BW> brainwashed atheists masters again. Tsk-tsk!
FR> Do you still demand that a fact and a theory are mutually
FR> exclusive, Bill?
I never demanded that a fact and a theory are mutually exclusive you
little moron!
FR> So far you have been subjected to years of assistance by your
FR> intellectual superiors and yet it seems you have ignored every
FR> attempt others have made to help you.
You're the morons who needs help. My intellectual superiors like the
late Carl Sagan is definitely on track.
FR> Do you still think evolution has something to do with the
FR> origins of life?
Poor Fredric the dumb ass! Evolution is a fact of life! As time
passes... something somewhere changes. Even our technology evolves!
So asking whether evolution exists or not is a damn stupid question.
Although asking where we originally came from is an intelligent one,
you little dipshit. Why do you people act so stupid for? Were you
just born that way, or did you just evolve that way?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Marty doesn't know!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:13
EID:da02 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 abfcdc22
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d90
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Oh poor David... I understand this, plus thousands of things
BW> that far surpasses these things. Please get with the program,
BW> dick head! Evolution is a natural occurrence, whether by mother
BW> nature or guided by some sort of intelligence.
FR> Do you have any evidence for this "some sort of intelligence"
FR> of yours?
It's just common sense, Fredric the pea brain. DNA is a complex
program which learned to improve itself with time. It created us who
somehow calls ourselves as intelligent beings. Well by your own
stupid examples, I wonder if we are only partly correct.
FR> Even more to the point, do you have any ___reason___ to suspect
FR> that natural selection and mutation isn't enough to accurately
FR> describe how and why evolution takes place?
Oh poor Fredric. Why do you concern yourself with the basics? Why
not ask why natural selection and mutation doesn't answer the
question like how did life get started and why some species
seemingly appeared without any links to natural selection or
mutation?
FR> If so, I suggest you write up your Nobel Prize-winning research
FR> paper and get it published quickly before some other super
FR> brain beats you to the finish line.
Sorry, but the late Carl Sagan already got the Pulitzer Prize. I
just happen to agree with him.
FR> Well? What's taking you so long, Bill?
Oh poor old Fredric, who's dumb, blind, and deaf!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pay up, Wolff!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:25
EID:1423 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 5adfb710
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d92
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
DC> Join the club. I'm a "lemming". Seems like you hit him harder
DC> and he made you the Grand Poobah of the organization.
FR> I'm not paying Dr. Glodbreg any dues! Most of us joined the
FR> club _before_ there were any Grand Poobahs and should be
FR> grandfathered.
BW> Seeing things that aren't really there Fredric?
FR> Just because you need to contrive fictional constructs doesn't
FR> mean that everyone needs to, Bill. Not everyone is as weak as
FR> you, you know.
You're delusional! I see things that are there and you Fredric, sees
crap that ain't there. Like most moron do.
FR> And if you want to make Dr. Glodbreg the ring leader of your
FR> intellectual superiors, please do so. I can't think of a better
FR> choice.
FR> It's cute watching Mr. Wolff huff and puff thinking he's
FR> knockig down houses of straw. The fact that he fails doesn't
FR> seem to tell him that he's wheezing at mountains.
BW> Still seeing shit that ain't there! My Fredric Rice, aren't you
BW> the really sick one!
FR> __Your__ Fredric Rice, huh? Not even if you paid me, dear. That
FR> is, I seriously doubt you have enough money. I can be had but
FR> I'm not cheap.
Still can't comprehend what you read, eh Fredric?
FR> How come you always devolve to personal insults when you're
FR> asked pointed questions, Bill? Everyone here has treated you
FR> fairly well and yet you return with calling people "dick head."
Because I'm being honest, Fredric the dick head! Why should I lie
like you do and cloud the truth? I see hiding the truth as
unproductive and is living a lie. Sorry, I refuse to take part in
acting like a true moron like you do.
FR> Is it a Catholic thing?
Hardly... it's an intelligent and honest thing. Something that you
probably have never experienced before. Or at least have ignored it
really well in this case.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:37
EID:9610 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b6f6c690
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d93
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> but you're also a terrorist.
DR> Yes. And damn proud of it, too.
BW> It figures. You don't get your way, then you stamp your feet
BW> and threaten others. Only stupid fucks do this sort of things.
FR> Interesting claims, Bill. Spikeing trees is an honorable
FR> profession which people have been doing for decades. As yet no
FR> one has been hurt;
Oh really? The American people were hurt because terrorist fools
like to destroy things. Come on Fredric the moron... can't you think
for a change?
FR> though the potential for harm has always existed. And on your
FR> side? How many millions have died because of the willful
FR> ignorance you profess?
Willful ignorance of the truth? You're really a twisted sick one,
aren't you?
DR> You're the nescience schmuck spewing the Kafkaesque, mendacious
DR> prattle around here. You have demonstrated yorself to be a
DR> untutored, asinine, loutish liar; a sodden, vacuous,
DR> meretricious, specious imbicle with delusions of intelligence,
DR> with the postiche affectation of knowing what the fuck you're
DR> talking about. In short, you're an ass.
FR> My guess is you should start looking up words with the word
FR> "You're" and work your way down the list, Bill.
Okay so grammar was always my worst subject. While math and science
was always my best! Do you have a problem with that? I feel it's far
better than you who has failed to learn how to use a spell checker
(see previous message for examples) and who insists in living a life
as a total dipshit. Hopefully you can see the difference.
BW> Sorry shit head David. I clearly know what the fuck I'm talking
BW> about. I'm an agnostic who doesn't buy this old mythology
BW> beliefs like you damn fuckups do.
FR> So far you haven't enumerated what these "mythology beliefs"
FR> are that your intellectual superiors are laboring under.
Oh poor brainwashed Fredric! Too blind to see the flaws in your
logic. Even when I spell them out to you just about every time. I
will not waste my time in this message to do so. Just read the other
replies to you in this very packet for lots of examples, dipshit!
FR> Now why would that be?
Still ignorant after all of these years, eh? It figures!
BW> Oh I got more stuff to say.
FR> Such as "shit head?" That's about the most rational thing
FR> you've yet said, Bill. Here we are trying to help you overcome
FR> your willful ignorance and your pathological need to lie and
FR> you repay us all with a potty mouth.
Oh poor Fredric makes up slanderous lies about me and then whines
when a call a spade a spade! Oh poor lying cry baby Fredric who
refuses to take responsibility for his actions. Oh poor wimpy
Fredric!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Answer the question for once
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:22:50
EID:a51a 219612c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4bd930d0
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ab115d94
On (07 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Sorry shit head David. I clearly know what the fuck I'm talking
BW> about. I'm an agnostic who doesn't buy this old mythology
BW> beliefs like you damn fuckups do.
FR> Well? Are you going to enumerate these fictional "mythology
FR> beliefs" of yours or are you going to pull the typical fundy
FR> and ignore having to face the consequences of your accusations?
Now you asked me the same damn thing in the previous reply and I
answered it. And now you ask again. You are truly a dipshit, Fredric
Rice the moron.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist l
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:02
EID:3139 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 5b127427
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32ab4a14
On (08 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Bill Wolff...
-> On 12-07-96 05:13, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
BW> Here is another lie you support like a dipshit. Why not prove
DC> Goodbye, twit.
Oh poor deranged Dan can't back up his wild ass claims and now has
to run away and cry and whine all the way home. Just another typical
response from those stupid brainwashed morons.
DC> Enjoy your self-delusion. You fit the role so well.
Your stupid slanderous remarks means absolutely nothing from a damn
moron like you.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Wolff, the Creationist l
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:13
EID:16f0 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 637acbda
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ab81ec
On (09 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Bill Wolff...
DC> What fun! If it weren't for these fundies, I would have
DC> to retire.
BW> Poor Dan confuses an agnostic for a fundy. Poor brainwashed Dan!
DW> Quack for us again, duckie.
Hehehe... still seeing shit that ain't there, just like a damn
fundy. Damn Dan, you make a great lemming! When does the herd plan
on jumping off the damn cliff again? I just love to watch you
lemmings in action. Stupid does what stupid sees, right stupid Dan?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Childish Leipzip! William Canis Defuckhead DeL [1]
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:22
EID:e85f 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 9d89dfcd
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Ah... Marty using all his big words again. Gee... when are you
BW> going to start trying to have an intelligent conversation for
BW> once?
ML> As soon as I find someone with the intelligence to do so. Of
ML> course, that immediately excludes you, Dimwit.
Oh poor Marty! You have already proven you couldn't see the truth if
it came and bit you on the ass!
BW> Poor Marty... when the going gets tough, Marty resorts to
BW> childish slurs. About par what we expect from a five year old.
ML> I know my audience and reply in terms that I know even a
ML> drooling asswipe like yourself would be able to understand.
Poor Marty fails to start having another intelligent conversation
again and offers only his flawed excuses again. Sigh... poor Bill
Wolff is still waiting for poor Marty to get his head out of his ass
once again.
ML> Stunning riposte, Herr Idiot.
Ah... the best of Marty the moron. How cute!
BW> Poor Marty. What I claim is that we don't know how life got
BW> started and if any third party was involve. So this could not
BW> be further from the truth, eh?
ML> That's right, Billyboy. You could not be further from the
ML> truth.
Your masters have brainwashed you well.
BW> Having a conversation with you is like trying to reason with a
BW> screaming 5 year old.
ML> So, you've finally accepted that which you are? How nice.
You also comprehend like a moron 5 year old too. How cute!
BW> But I'll try to continue. Also I don't know where you get that
BW> fundy claim stuff you have been claiming for years. As I've
BW> never seen any spirits in my life. Have you?
ML> Of course, but they are in bottles.
Ah... still seeing crap that ain't there again? Sorry my poor moron,
we're talking about spirits which are claimed by theists to be
existing. Not your favorite past time spirits. Gosh Marty, you're so
dumb sometimes.
BW> Ah... maybe your tantrum will pass shortly.
ML> Unfortunately we can't say the same for you.
Poor Marty still seeing shit that ain't there. You're acting just
like a damn fundy again.
BW> Really? You seem to suggest that life got started here only on
BW> it's own and proceeds without any outside intervention.
ML> That's what the evidence suggests.
Sorry, the evidence suggests that the Universe is full of organic
material, Marty the damn dipshit who can't see the truth if it bit
him in the ass. Boy you are really stupid, aren't you the moron?
BW> I'll grant you this is indeed probably possible.
ML> How nice. I AM so relieved.
Sounds like it's time for your diaper change again.
BW> But I wager a similar thing could have happened elsewhere.
ML> So? The evidence indicates that it is entirely possible.
Yet, your so stuck on your faith that the Earth acted alone when
even common sense dictates otherwise.
BW> Thus this could drastically change you view of reality.
ML> Nope. It would merely add to it. It would however remove most
ML> religionists from the navel of the cosmos. A deprovincialism
ML> that would profoundly affect their view (however stilted) or
ML> reality.
Sorry my poor stupid one. If we ever have prove that intelligent
beings other than ourselves does exist. Then this proves that the
theists had the right idea (although somewhat clouded) and that the
atheists were so stupid to put faith against the laws of logic and
common sense. Although I suppose you are just too stupid to
understand.
BW> Enjoying your little fit?
ML> You must be enjoying yours to keep it up for all these years.
Proving time and time again that you are just a stupid fool isn't
enjoyable to me. I'm trying to shame you and force you into an
intelligent conversation for once. Yet you continue to make up
excuses like a damn fool why you can't. I must conclude that you
maybe just too stupid to have any shame.
ML> Right. Tell us all about how a "factualist" deals with reality,
ML> Billyboy. Still claiming that NASA is sending gifts to the
ML> gods? You moron.
Interesting stupidity on your part. As I just learned yesterday that
it was nobody other than the late Carl Sagan who "As a member of the
Voyager team, Sagan conceived the idea of putting a message aboard
the Voyager spacecraft on the chance that extraterrestrial beings
will come upon it centuries from now, somewhere on its endless
journey beyond the solar system." - The New York Times
BW> So when are you going to start?
ML> Always have. It's no fault of ours that you're so terminally
ML> benighted not to be able to discern that fact.
Your logic is so poor, you have convinced me that you can't find a
fact if it bit you on the ass!
BW> Right Marty! You think foolishly that I'm some sort of fundy.
ML> Quack a bit louder, Billyboy.
Poor Marty with his foolish blind faith. Still seeing shit that
ain't there. How cute! Just like a fundy.
ML> Your inept dogmatism substitutes just fine.
What are these dogmatism substitutes Marty? Or is this just another
example of you seeing shit that ain't there again?
BW> when in fact you have a shit load of them which contradicts
BW> reality?
ML> I trust you have evidence to back up this idiotic claim.
I do so everyday my poor Marty. The problem is that your dumb and
blind. It's time you stop denying your disabilities.
BW> Give me a break!
ML> Which arm?
It figures you are too stupid to know the difference between a
figure of speech and a factual statement. Clearly you must indeed to
be too stupid to start an intelligent conversation with. How sad!
ML> Sorry, it's physically and mentally impossible for me to lower
ML> myself to your level.
BW> In your dreams perhaps. And the other meaningless personal
BW> attacks were read and filed in the big bit bucket in the sky.
ML> Ah, the one between your ears.
Poor Marty, still playing out in left field and 180 degrees from the
truth as he can get. Doesn't your denial of your stupidity problem
ever bother you?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Billyboy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his n [1]
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:31
EID:1058 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 d8288670
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> I know I'm not a creationist, and I know you have your head up
BW> your ass. And once again, you just don't know what in the hell
BW> you are talking about.
ML> Wrong yet again, Billyboy. Your argument from ignorance is not
ML> so much an argument as a further example of your ignorance.
My argument is in line with that of the late Carl Sagan, dipshit.
It's time you deal with your denial, dumb ass!
BW> I personally don't know if a creator had
BW> existed or not.
ML> Past tense? So, you believe a creator now exists.
No stupid Marty! I said it in the past tense to avoid confusion with
morons who claims that God is dead. My conversation has nothing to
do with such talk. My conversation has to do whether or not the
Earth itself could of pulled off making life and creating all of the
different species or not. Evidence suggest that the Earth isn't that
gifted. And if it were, the evidence we have has holes that needs to
be filled.
ML> That's the least of what you don't know.
BW> Poor Marty... the truth is that nobody knows.
ML> Perhaps. Some more enlightened individuals ignore such
ML> supernatural nonsense and concentrate on reality...
BW> I'm not dealing with supernatural bullshit Marty. I'm dealing
BW> with the Universe as a whole. And you dimwit, are viewing
BW> reality as the Earth exists, but nothing outside does.
ML> I trust you have evidence to back up this moronic claim of
ML> yours, don't you Billyboy? Or are you merely grasping at straws
ML> yet again?
You are really stupid, aren't you dipshit? I see evidence that the
Earth just isn't gifted enough to act alone. And yet when I side on
the more logical approach and prove you to be a fool that you are.
You pretend to believe I'm grasping at straws? How fundy of you.
Denial is your speciality, isn't it?
BW> Both fact and theory? Please explain how a theory is a fact?
ML> Read a little closer you fucking idiot. You wrote (as noted
ML> above) "Please explain how a theory is a fact". I never claimed
ML> that evolutionary theories (plural, Billyboy) are fact; you
ML> did.
Read again dipshit! I was asking you if you believe a theory is a
fact. When are you ever going to get the story straight you damn
moron!
BW> Oh I know the difference alright and I asked you to explain
BW> something. But instead of answering it intelligently. You throw a
BW> fit like a little child.
ML> Hardly. I responded in a way that I knew even a blightered
ML> asshole like you could understand. Further, if you want to be
ML> spoon-fed, go ask you keeper; instead of begging your betters
ML> to explain all that you don't and can't understand.
Poor Marty! Clouded from heavy brainwashing and being a total
ignorant old fart, foolishly believes that I'm a creationist and a
fundy to boot. Like always, your never close to knowing the truth,
are you, Marty the damn fool?
ML> So? The fact is we don't know...YET.
BW> Finally you admitted it after all of these years.
ML> I never claimed otherwise. If I did, provide some evidence. Put
ML> up or shut up, Billyboy.
You admitted that I am a creationist and a fundy, like a damn liar
that you are. So why pretend being something that you're not? You
can't fool me, oh stupid one!
BW> Maybe you're not a total moron after all.
ML> Unfortunately we will never be able to say that about you.
Poor Marty has to be seeing images of himself in the mirror again.
After all, that would explain the delusions.
ML> You're just like the God mongering morons of the middle ages.
ML> We don't know what makes lightning. GOD DID IT! We don't know
ML> what makes wind. GOD DID IT.
BW> Sorry dipshit. I haven't seen any God (or gods) and as far as I'm
BW> concern, he, they, or whatever hasn't done shit.
ML> Sounds like you're projecting again, Billyboy.
Poor Marty sees God (or gods) again. I'm not an expert in your
mental illness. But isn't it time for your straitjacket again?
BW> Yeah... just like your stupid labeling of individuals and you still
BW> can't even get it right yet.
ML> Yeah. Pull the other one, Mr. Factualist.
Poor Marty denial runs so deep.
BW> Your old theory is too short and
BW> naive. Like it or not.
ML> Your "theory" isn't even a good guess, it is totally outdated
ML> and has been debunked for hundred of years. Get your toes out
ML> of your mouth and try reading a recent science text, Herr
ML> Idiot.
BW> Oh... I assume you are referring to the biblical theory.
ML> Nope. Another erroneous assumption on your part.
Then please elaborate it for us Marty. I'm sure it will just turn
out to be another classic case of your seeing shit that ain't there
again like usual.
BW> Oh well, as probably stated previously, you have your head up
BW> your ass again.
ML> Physical impossibility. Although I do sometimes wonder how you
ML> manage to respire when your nose is nestled in your colon.
Poor old foolish Marty confuses a figure of speech again like a damn
moron that he is. How cute!
BW> But you dumb stupid morons don't think logically, do you moron?
ML> I can't speak for "dumb stupid morons" (I would never even
ML> begin to talk for you, Billydroid)...
BW> You're such a dipshit! You're doing it right in this very message.
ML> Nope. You need no assistance in speaking for you clan of "dumb
ML> stupid morons"; you're a perfect spokesperson for that bunch.
Ah... the truth of what I'm saying is right even here in this very
message. The problem is that you're just too damn stupid to see it.
BW> That's right, I have to deal with you children all of the time.
ML> Yet another inmate that believes he's a warden.
No my poor Marty. I see right through your bullshit!
BW> and you still project the old wishful theories of the ageless
BW> ignorant.
ML> Such as? Evidence, moron. Put up or shut up.
I have time and time again. You're just too stupid to see it. Why do
you continue to play dumb and stupid? And why are you in denial
after all of these years?
ML> Your 'logical scientific method"? ROFL! I am amazed your
ML> keyboard didn't self destruct rather than accept that load of
ML> horseshit you dumped.
In your dream Marty, the damn lying ass fool!
BW> Ah... it figures you would take a figure of speak literally.
ML> A "figure of speak"? ROFL! You must really have your knickers
ML> in a twist to royally fuck up so grandly.
It figures that poor Marty missed the whole point and grabs at a
straw when he foolishly tries to turn this into a grammar debate.
How fundy of you Marty, the damn lying ass fool that you are!
BW> So it appears, you're just as stupid as they are.
ML> ... Sad you don't even manage to come up to fundie level.
Sad that you are just too stupid to know the difference between a
fundy and an agnostic. So your knowledge of fundy levels are
nonrelative to the rest of us. Just face reality Marty, you're
nothing but a fucked up moron. I suggest you finally deal with your
denial problem.
ML> I have no beliefs and believe nothing. I'll leave that to
ML> ignorant schmucks like yourself.
Oh poor Marty, how quickly you forget. You continue to ignore the
fact that your faith states that I'm a creationists and a fundy.
Your faith also believes that evolution answers everything, and
believe it without question. Sorry Marty, you have been programmed
to have faith in these things. Just like the fundies have faith,
sorry to say poor old ignorant Marty.
ML> Nothing that you could possibly understand, at least.
You have time and time again, proved that you can't even align
yourself with the truth. Try again, fool!
ML> "Fool hearted"? Watch it, Billyboy. You're clown suit's really
ML> beginning to unravel now.
Poor Marty just keeps throwing out excuses for his denial problem.
Someday you are going to have to face the truth. The longer you
wait, the longer it is going to hurt. Although you could always take
the shortcut and kill yourself. Then you would also learn what
happens to us at death as well.
BW> that walks and talks like a fundy from the other side.
ML> I trust you have evidence for this, another is a long list of
ML> your moronic claims?
Damn you are really dumb. Time and time I show you how you believe
by faith, believe in your own lies, shown how you have been
programmed well, and here you sit and deny hearing anything. Are you
truly this damn stupid Marty? Or is this just great acting?
BW> Marty, when evidence uncovered by science itself leads to a
BW> conflict with the articles of faith in their profession.
"Articles of faith"? And these are?
The current theories which are accepted by their faith you damn
stupid moron! I swear you have no common sense at all. I can't even
have an intelligent conversation with you because you are just too
damn stupid to understand eve3n the basics. Damn you are so damn
dumb. Maybe ending your life would be far better for you then living
it out in total ignorance.
BW> It turns out that the scientist behaves the way the rest of us
BW> do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence. They
BW> become irritated, they pretend the conflict does not exist, or
BW> they paper it over with meaningless phrases. Yes Marty, this is
BW> exactly what you have done.
ML> Utter horseshit on so many levels. Science neither desires nor
ML> requires beliefs. Your claim to the contrary is fallacious.
ML> Strike one.
Pure bullshit Marty. My statement is almost a direct quote from
Robert Jastrow, who is a scientist and was commenting on the
evidence that pointed to the existence that the Universe was started
with a big bang. And many astronomers fall into denial when the
evidence aligned with the biblical view, rather than the old
scientific theories which they wanted to prove differently.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Bill Wolff: Creationist liar for his gods
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:43
EID:e91b 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4c3ec158
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Fredric Rice...
BW> "The fossil evidence could be consistent with the idea of a
BW> Great Designer; perhaps some species are destroyed when the
BW> Designer becomes dissatisfied with them, and new experiments
BW> are attempted on an improved design. But this notion is a
BW> little disconcerting. Each plant and animal is exquisitely
BW> made; should not a supremely competent Designer have been able
BW> to make the intended variety from the start? The fossil record
BW> implies trial and error, an inability to anticipate the future,
BW> features inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer
BW> (although not with a Designer of a more remote and indirect
BW> temperament)." - Carl Sagan
FR> When this fuck first posted this, HE LEFT OFF EVERYTHING AFTER
FR> THE QUESTION MARK to deliberatly make Sagan sound like a
FR> Creationist.
ML> What's that noise? Either it's Billyboy's hard drive tuning up
ML> for a Shene-in or it's Billybozo's stridulatory cries of "Is
ML> not! Is not!"
Oh you poor dumb asses! I purposely left it as is to make you stupid
morons to use your brains for once and intelligently make comments
why Carl Sagan the noncreationist would say should a thing. But no,
you morons are just to damn stupid to take part in intelligent
conversations and miscomprehend this to read that I called Carl
Sagan a creationist! Damn you people are so dumb and you foolishly
make use of strawmen to try to make a point. Sorry, it only works on
fucking morons like yourself, dumb shit!
ML> Either way, they're both annoying; although humorous.
Either way, you failed to notice the point that I was making in the
first place. Here it is again for the dozenth time. "...
inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer (although not with a
Designer of a more remote and indirect temperament)." - Sagan
FR> Additionally the fuck prefaced his claims by demanding that
FR> evolution doesn't happen some how and gave Sagan's
FR> out-of-context quote as "proof."
ML> Amazing. He must truly believe that everyone is as brainlessly
ML> absent-minded as he.
Amazing! Time and time again I say that evolution is a fact. But
like always, you morons never get even close to the truth. You poor
stupid shit heads!
ML> Natural selection ain't gonna be nice to this clown.
Natural selection doesn't answer all of the questions, dumb ass. Man
you people take a little thing and build a whole plan which
convinces you it answers everything. And when I point this fact out,
you resort to employing strawmen.
FR> It was only after someone _ELSE_ found the quote and typed it
FR> in and _THEN_ this fucking asswipe had to start trying to
FR> excuse his lie.
ML> Since when is "Is not!" an excuse?
Since I hadn't lied, it's only through your silly ass delusions. To
damn bad you morons are just to damn stupid to see the truth, ain't
it shit head! I really getting tired of you morons playing your
stupid little games. You're are just sinking deeper and deeper into
your bullshit with no hope of digging back out again. I have
repeatably shown you people to be total morons over and over again.
And yet, you stupidly hide behind your stupid denial. How dumb!
FR> And it's people like Wolff who want to put an end to teaching
FR> science in the public schools.
ML> Well, when you have ALL the answers like Herr Ignoramus (or at
ML> least, you believe you do...)
I want to put an end to teaching science in schools? What another
damn lie! You people will twist the facts on any grounds, won't you
moron? Of course, if I ask you to provide evidence for you damn
lies, you will not do so because I never said such a thing. You
people are just so damn stupid you can't even see how stupid you
people really are. Just keep it up, and prove to all what stupid
damn fools you really are. I speak the truth and prove it over and
over again to remove all doubt, moron!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:48
EID:eff4 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4a0bb1fe
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Fredric Rice...
FR> It certainly appears as though he wants to pretend that the
FR> fact of evolution is some how unique to the Earth.
ML> I really wonder where he dragged up that contention? I never
ML> said that it was; nor has any other rational person here. Can
ML> it be that Wolffy is delusional as well as idiotic?
BW> As someday it will all crumble.
FR> What a fucking religious whacko!
ML> You're being redundant, Fred.
And both of you are acting like total morons. You believe in crap
that ain't there, take people out of context, lie your ass off,
miscomprehend, employ strawmen, and simply act stupid. Of course
your beliefs will crumble just like those damn scientists who
refused to buy into the evidence of the big bang theory.
FR> But just wait, Marty... Some day we'll all pay; the hurtful
FR> truth that's bled this fuicker dry will be avenged. Some day.
FR> His gods will see us all punished, by Jove!
ML> And verily, I tremble...
My gods!!! Still seeing shit that ain't there again. Please provide
evidence of these so called gods? Or just run away with your tail
between your legs again. I swear I've never seen such a bunch of
nonthinking morons in my life. You fools can't ever back up evidence
for your claims, make up shit on your own, and can't ever tell the
truth. What a bunch of dumb fucks you people are. I like usual,
prove once again what real damn fools you people are.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Billy tells us all what he is
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:23:59
EID:5acd 219612e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 67e2f748
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ac055add
On (09 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to All...
FR> I'm an agnostic shit for brains! - Bill Wolff
FR> Bill is telling us that he's "an agnostic shit for brains."
Of course Fredric, you show us once again that you are a total dick
head and are cursed to remain that way until you deal with your
denial problem. Btw, Bill Wolff was telling you morons that he's an
agnostic and that Martin Goldberg has shit for brains. Although I
will clearly admit, you too have shit for brains as well. I am truly
sorry for leaving you out of such a compliment.
FR> Like we didn't know that already.
It's just like you to twist the facts to align them with your
fantasies. All intelligent people can see right through your
foolishness. I can't believe you eagerly and freely expose what damn
fools you are, over and over again.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:17
EID:47bd 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c30c
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MICHAEL HARDY to JESSE JONES on 12-19-96
MH> So you would agree with Plantinga that belief in God can be
MH>"properly basic?"
Michael, I have no idea who Plantinga is.
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
MH>God exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether
MH>we believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
Heb 6:4-8 "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance
those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift,
and have shared in the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the goodness of
the word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6) and then have
fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God
and are holding him up to contempt. (7) Ground that drinks up the rain
falling on it repeatedly, and that produces a crop useful to those for
whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. (8) But if it
produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and on the verge of being
cursed; its end is to be burned over."
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:17
EID:fd50 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c30d
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JESSE JONES on 12-15-96
ML> JJ> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the denizens
ML> JJ> of this hell hole
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
too long :-)
ML> JJ> are not in any way typical of that small portion of
ML> JJ> atheists in this country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping generalizations?
ML> Is this _just_ your opinion or do you have some evidence with
ML> which to back it?
Marty, I know you're not really that stupid. It is manifestly
an opinion, based on experience. How would one "prove" a statement like
that? It is based on a characterization, a conclusion, about the
participants here. It is not quantifiable.
ML> JJ> The writer's point is well taken: those
ML> JJ> participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
ML> Since you seem to agree with this uninformed viewpoint, please
ML> elucidate. Specifically, just how am I (a wicked old atheist of
ML> the highest degree) insecure about "my atheism"?
In my experience, most atheists have stared into the abyss of
immortality and come back with a brave defiance. Such folks have no
reason -- and indeed their insight would direct them elsewhere -- to
attack and ridicule believers. The gathering of heathens here to bash
believers evidences deep-rooted insecurity, a profound fear that there
may indeed be a god who needs therefore to be battled.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:17
EID:0442 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c30e
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MICHAEL HARDY to JESSE JONES on 12-19-96
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
MH>God exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether
MH>we believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
Michael, as I said to you before you elected to join ranks with
the Rice Brothers, a Christian faith which is premised on a choice to
believe buying a ticket to heaven will itself have to face the awesome
judgment of God. Luke 9:24 "For those who want to save their life will
lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it."
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Let me know right away if you don't get this message.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Lies
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:18
EID:d8b5 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c310
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MARTIN GOLDBERG to JESSE JONES on 12-16-96
MG> JJ> about it, let me repeat what I have said: For the most
MG> JJ> part, atheists do not do good things." That does not mean,
MG> JJ> I have never said, and I do not believe that it is not
MG> JJ> possible for atheists to do good things.
MG>So, you believe that atheists do no good things over fifty per cent
MG>of the time?
Yes.
MG> Be specific now as your final grade is riding on this.
I can hardly wait.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Eschew Obfuscation!
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Scortched scotch.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:18
EID:e595 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c311
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MARILYN BURGE to JESSE JONES on 12-17-96
MB>Seems strange to me that my fundy friend has no trouble whatsoever
MB>discussing values with me. In fact, he's the first person I turn
MB>to when I have a moral dilemma of some kind.
It seems to me that my atheist friend has no trouble whatsoever
discussing values with me. . . .
MB>Doesn't that make you wonder what the difference is between his
MB>approach and yours, and exactly why his approach works so well
MB>while yours is such an abysmal failure?
Doesn't that make you wonder what the difference is between his
approach and yours, and exactly why his failure works so well while
yours is such an abysmal failure?
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Call me when you get a clue
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Who gives what
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:19
EID:4751 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c314
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JESSE JONES on 12-15-96
ML> ML> FR>And don't forget, fucker, that secular institutions are run
ML> ML> FR>into extinction because Christians won't donate to them.
ML> ML> JJ> What possible obligation do Christians have to give
ML> ML> JJ> financial support to secular institutions?
ML> ML> What possible obligation do secularists have to give
ML> ML> financial support to Christian institutions (viz: vouchers)?
ML> JJ> None whatsoever. And I am strongly opposed to school
ML> JJ> vouchers.
ML> Quite agreed, old bean.
ML> But why stop there? What of Armed Forces chaplains, tax-exempt
ML> churches (for instance; a church in West Houston burned last
ML> week [HolySmoke!], who pays for the fire department?) and the
ML> remainder of the religious ilk that are supported by secular
ML> (read tax) funds?
Well, you raise a good point. I think the public school is a
special case, and needs public support unfettered by religious doctrine.
But you are right that historically there have been many ties between
church and state. Can you imagine the hue and cry if you tried to
eliminate military chaplains?
There is indeed great inconsistency between theory and practice.
I would like to see a meaningful public dialogue which could better
articulate the proper relationship between church and state. But until
such dialogue develops, I suspect you heathens have more to lose than to
gain. My advice to you is to continue to lay low. :-)
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
I refuse to be intimidated by reality anymore
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 06:09:19
EID:18d6 21963120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b3c315
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting FREDRIC RICE to JESSE JONES on 12-17-96
FR>Q>leave. I remembered that I had one last can of Vernors sitting in
FR>Q>our company's refrigerator, and the gentleman made such a point of
FR>Q>missing the stuff (not having had it in five years), I knew what
FR>Q>was going to happen to that can of Vernors. I happily handed it
FR>Q>over and "apologized" that I didn't have any Sanders candy to go
FR>Q>with it. He walked out of the office like a kid on Christmas, and
FR>Q>I have to admit to being rather excited to have made someone so
FR>Q>happy.
FR>jcj> I am astounded that you and your fellow heathens would brag
FR>jcj> about such incidents as giving away your last can of Vernors --
FR>You, Sir, are astounded by light bulbs _and_ anything which debunks
FR>utterly your death cult master's deceptions you bought. After a
FR>dozen people enumerated the good things they do, you, you FUCKING
FR>DEATH CULTIST, want to pick one and pretend everything else atheists
FR>do never happened to try and "top" your straw man like helping others
FR>is some kind of contest!
Try one more time to understand this, Freddie. No enumeration
of good acts by any participant in this conference, whether a believer
or a heathen, does anything to prove or to disprove the statement that,
for the most part, atheists do not do good things. Any student of the
human reasoning you worship could tell you that, so go find one to
consult.
Stevie Q. made a complete ass of himself by holding out an
incident in which he gave a stranger his last can of a particularly fine
soda pop. Perhaps your vile attempts mask your embarrassment for
him.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
"And another thing! Stop with this 'spaceman' thing!" - Woody
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 23 Dec 96 00:05:18
EID:9aeb 219700a0
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bdccbe
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
mg>>> Yeah...if Jimbo started thinking..well...let's
mg>>> not discuss it. It's too macabre to talk about.
FR>> I would start looking for the pods.
MG>> That's just Terrifid.
ML> A little sea water will take care of that problem.
Shh, you might wake the Kraken.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Christopher Baker
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: fido shits again
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:45:42
EID:8e00 21958da0
> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let me
> know.
it's working.
QOFM.
Chris
--- DB B2300sl/001027
* Origin: Rights On! - Religion Free Always! - Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 18/14 374/98 1000 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:12:32
EID:3e53 21968980
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1272
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6ce5
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CG>> Yes, I still believe that when you impose a form of living onto a
CG>> land, that this is bad resource management, by those forcing the
CG>> change.
DH>> Your examples of India and the West Indies notwithstanding, wouldn't
DH>> you agree that the colonization of both North and South America was
DH>> rather successful in terms of the goals?
CG> 'Bash!' 'Crash!' 'Bonk! Oi, mind that mallet!'
CG> Sounds of Super-mice dismantling another trap.... :-)
CG> Which goals were those Dave?
Virtual eradication of the existing population, since they did
not offer free labour to mobilize the resources, and possession
of the land.
CG> Penal colony? Gold? Catholicism? Religious Sanctuary? Somewhere
CG> else for the Scots and Irish to invade?
Not sure about the Irish; I believe most of them wound up in
Maritime Canada, but the Scots found themselves valuable as
mercenaries for decades in the American South. One of the
few U.S. cities that regales with its own Pipe Band is
Atlanta.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:17:10
EID:3e53 21968a20
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1274
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6d37
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CG> You mean you don't come from Quebec?
Every time I go there, that's what I do immediately next.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: PROBLEM OF PAIN
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:18:50
EID:a449 21968a40
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1275
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6db7
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Chris Green to Dave Hamilton:
CG> My apologies for calling you an idiot Dave.
Thank you. I assure you, I occasionally earn the
honourific.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Circular Reasoning.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:21:40
EID:6dae 21968aa0
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bb1276
MSGID: 1:229/622 32bd6ea1
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
CG> 5: Thus there is a relatively small population; and it is likely that
CG> those who are into data-communications will know each other.
Ah. Living as I do in close proximity to Toronto, I make an effort
to not know most people.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 229/600 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:16:16
EID:e7a5 21972200
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be07bd
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
DR> [The following is smilie-captioned for the humor-impared]
DR> MISTER Quarrella, you are hereby ORDERED to cease and
DR> desist with doing any and all Good Things immediately!
I am -so- ashamed!
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:17:52
EID:ce77 21972220
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be081b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad DAVID WORRELL:
DR> ... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
ROFL! I'm -way- overdue to rent that one again. I just about fell out
of my chair when they started talking about the "Chocolate Monk."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Holysmoke
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:26:02
EID:b017 21972340
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be09f7
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bb069d
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Don!
Veneris dies December 20 1996, Dixit Don Martin ad All:
JJ>> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>> by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
DM> Has anyone here _ever_ seen a pearl from this bozo?
Just the one up above. He'll be back. They always come back. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: death
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:30:56
EID:806a 219723c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be0b16
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 023c66a0
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Veneris dies December 20 1996, Dixit David Worrell ad All:
DW> Carl Sagan died early this morning.
DW> Jesse Jones (and a host of other bloodsucking lawyers) is still alive.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:32:16
EID:6207 21972400
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be0b7f
REPLY: 1:3603/210 0cf4c6ed
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, ROBERT!
Mercurii dies December 18 1996, Dixit ROBERT CURRY ad Steve Quarrella:
RC>> So what are you planning for Easter weekend, 1997?
SQ>> Why, I was planning on spending that weekend not being thankful!
RC> What, no demonic pacts? Or do you do those on New Year's Day?
We do those sporadically, but forge "the big one" on Halloween. The two
black cats here help out, in fact.
RC> Sorry. Too late. You've already been elected. If you were a bear,
RC> you'd be Catholic by now.
"Congratulations. You may now shit in the woods."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Carl sagan
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:33:54
EID:d4ea 21972420
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be0bf1
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bb8f37
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Don!
Veneris dies December 20 1996, Dixit Don Martin ad Steve Quarrella:
DM> The National Public Radio report of his death had a clip from a
DM> few years ago when Sagan was asked about his religious beliefs. His
DM> reply went something like "One cannot study these things without
DM> being filled with a sense of awe and wonder at the grandeur of the
DM> universe. Do I believe that some god created it all? No."
DM> I predict that we shall see Wolff and/or other fundies quoting
DM> the first sentence (only).
I won't even go NEAR that prediction, as I would be willing to guess that
what yo predict will "come to pass" within the next six months.
"I'm getting the initials L.A. Anybody?"
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: I got my Xmas wish!
|Date: 23 Dec 96 04:38:50
EID:b647 219724c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be0ef9
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2bc27851
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Richard!
Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Richard Smith ad ALL:
jj>> The goal of the message base is only to ridicule and
jj>> malign Christ
I know of another jj who whines the same song.
jj>> The only reason the enemies
jj>> of Christ post here, is to participate in the roasting and
jj>> ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of
jj>> dialogue or debate with Christians.
Why, we're here to combat the evil!
jj>> To continue posting and "debating" with them is tantamount to
jj>> exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction.
Meaning "I can't do it anymore."
jj>> Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by
ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!
RS> Let me clue you in: if too many people just start sending in
RS> spam posting, then I bet there will be a few BBSes cut off
RS> without the possibility of doing it anymore. We tolerate
When in doubt, get in the last word by setting up a robot and not even reading
the echo. If it gets annoying enough, I'll simply kill the messages out
of my local message base, upon receipt. See, my robot works too. :)
RS> I'm sorry you're not confident enough in your faith or brave
RS> enough to discuss it here. Maybe there is another echo you
RS> could hang around in?
THUMB_SUCKERS.
jj>> You have been one of the most
jj>> tolerant and "persistent" Christians in here, but you are
jj>> not given the least bit of credence by HolySmokers.
I'll give him some "credence:"
"Thought it was a nightmare..."
ROFL!
RS>
jj>> ALL CHRISTIANS UNITE....no longer post here...let the word
jj>> be spread through all the echoes...to all brothers and
jj>> sisters...that henceforth Christians will no longer post to
jj>> HOLYSMOKE....and by doing so we will bring about the demise
I want to see ANY post that this guy makes, encouraging his fellow Bedlam
inhabitants that they should not post here. We'll see how successful he
is. I'd be willing to guess that he'll actually drive some Fundies INTO
the echo with this kind of stuff.
jj>> After weeks or months of complaining to each
jj>> other, without any individuals to ridicule, they will
jj>> eventually go the way of the DoDo.
The asshole Mormons will STILL come to my door, regardless of what Jean
here wants.
jj>> I think we can if we spread the word through whatever
jj>> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the
jj>> "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year.
Message saved to disk. Remind me to post it next December.
jj>> Let us all...of all denominations and none...from
jj>> the Catholics...to the pentecostals...the Baptists...the
jj>> Anglicans..the Steve Winters...the Latter Day Saints...the
jj>> Mormans...all who I have failed to mention...let us all
Let's not forget the "Mormons" either. Winter never posted here, and I
find it a bit telling that this guy would include Winter in a list of his
allies. "My enemy's enemy is my friend." If Jean thinks he's got problems
here, let him try to have a "rational debate" in a forum where Steve Winter
participates.
jj>> LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY
jj>> LONGER...EXCEPT TO SPREAD THIS MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER
jj>> SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE...LET US SPEND OUR TIME
What is it? The third time he's used that metaphor?
jj>> Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues
jj>> with them..
RS> Only because he CAN'T. Leonard lacks the fortitude and
Leonard and John aren't real men. :)
jj>> HAAAAA!!!!!VICTORY IN JESUS!!!!!!!.......john!
Clown suit off.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:21:10
EID:1e87 219732a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be254f
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15b27072
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Glen!
Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Jesse Jones ad Glen Todd:
JJ> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4% atheists in the
JJ> U.S.?
I am reminded of a Peanuts strip where Lucy goes on and on about "And did
you know that 50% of ______ were women, and 50% of women did that," and
so on. Charlie Brown finally says "From where did you get these statistics?"
"I just now made them up."
Maybe we'll get Uncle Jesse playing with the "They're in the minority, who
cares what they want?" game that some of his fellow Fundamentalists play
from time to time.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:23:46
EID:7ebb 219732e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be263d
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2bc8f161
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Mimi!
Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Mimi Milstein ad Brett Johnson:
BJ>> One can see amazing things of this nature to this day
BJ>> though. Go to the shrine of an incorruptible; some of the
BJ>> bodies are centuries old, never been embalmed, and are
BJ>> still perfectly intact. In fact they look more like they're
BJ>> sleeping than actually being dead.
MM> Please tell me where this shrine is located, and if you have
MM> actually viewed it personally (and not just rely on literature).
Things like this are -supposed- to exist below the streets of Palermo, Sicily,
but even then, I can't say I've ever read that the bodies are "incorruptible."
Well preserved, yes, but not incorruptible.
Note that Southern Italy is pooh-poohed even by the Vatican when it comes
to cases of reported miracles (for the sake of beatification or canonization):
They know just how superstitious the folks in Calabria and Sicily are [Hell,
a Sicilian aunt of mine -still- waves the evil eye around.]
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:27:24
EID:f8d9 21973360
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be268b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad All:
ML> Food for thought department.
Aha...a Dahmer reference!
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications after a
ML> two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
Just more proof that Satan is Lord of this world (A -great- Black Sabbath
song) and that the end times are a' comin'!
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:28:24
EID:daaf 21973380
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be26af
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marty!
Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad John Jeanneault:
JJ>> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>> by no longer posting here.
I'm wondering if we should have a betting pool on how long it will be before
he posts in here again.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:31:02
EID:d142 219733e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be273f
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 21968361
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Where you been, man?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Lies
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:44
EID:3147 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bc7
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting DAVID RICE to JESSE JONES on 12-20-96
DR>>DR> Why doesn't Jesse Christ Jones know it? Or the army
DR>>DR> of darkness that make up his co-religionists? How can
DR>>DR> they believe that taking a rod to a child will instill
DR>>DR> proper behavior, instead of (in reality) instilling
DR>>DR> merely contempt and loathing of those who apply their
DR>>DR> power against the weak and the powerless?
DR>JJ> I do not believe I have ever discussed the subject of
DR>JJ> corporal punishment of children. I am strongly against
DR>JJ> it in the schools, and incline against it in the homes.
DR>JJ> Your attribution to me of support for such punishment
DR>JJ> is yet another lie.
DR>The "lie" was my honest mistake of lumping you in with your
DR>hyper-fanatics co-religions, of which I apologize.
I thank you for and accept that apology.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Let my people go! Land of Goshen......
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:44
EID:7eac 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bc8
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting DAVID RICE to STEVE QUARRELLA on 12-19-96
DR>This month I bought a woman and her three children, whom
DR>I've never met, food and clothing.
I commend you for this act of human kindness.
DR> No doubt a fundy would
DR>have merely "prayed for them."
It is sad but true that my fundamentalist sisters and brothers
tend to buy into conservative politics and the vicious lie that those
who are poor somehow are responsible for their own despair. James 2:15-
16 "If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, (16) and one
of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill," and yet
you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that?"
DR>Atheists, for the most
DR>part, would let her and her children go hungry and cold.
And that too sadly is true.
Anyone care to buy a clue?
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
I'm immortal...so far. - Earle Robinson
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:45
EID:2afd 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bca
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting JUDITH BANDSMA to ALL on 12-20-96
JB>This is especially to Jesse Jones:
Thank you Judith for the special attention.
JB>I have finally hit upon a very solid, logical reason for using the
JB>winter holidays (pc on my part to not offend anyone ) to celebrate
Not to offend anyone?!?!? What about the f***ing split
infinitive?!? :->
JB>and buy gifts for each other, etc.
JB>October is the beginning of a new fiscal year for the company my
JB>husband works for. By December, all the numbers have been taken care
JB>of and the employees' share, in the form of a bonus has been
JB>calculated and checks cut. This bonus is also sent out at this time.
JB>So, in the month of December, we have extra discretionary income. We
JB>use it to go out to eat and to buy something that we want that we
JB>would not otherwise have the cash for. (This year it is a digital
JB>camera) The same for sending presents to the kids...we now have the
JB>cash to do it.
JB>The same would hold true if this bonus came to us at ANY time of the
JB>year. We would go out to eat, buy something we want and send some
JB>things to the kids even if the check came in July.
I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
You know you're dieting when postage stamps taste good.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: truth
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:45
EID:32f2 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bcb
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting DAVID WORRELL to ALL on 12-20-96
DW>In a message to Jesse Jones, Glen Todd wrote:
DW> GT> No, it will show that political expediency disguised as
DW> GT> piousness has a firm root in this government's traditions.
DW> GT> In any event, it also shows that it _IS_ a direct and
DW> GT> blatant violation of the Constitution and a 'celebration' of
DW> GT> a crime against ethics and honour that True Folk would do
DW> GT> well to shun.
DW>First the Christians give us "True Christians/False Christian Scum."
DW>Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
DW>What's next?
Well, David, as Bobby Dylan sang, You gotta serve somebody. It
may be the devil, or it may be the Lord, but ya gotta serve somebody.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
They saved Hitler's brain, it's living in Jerry Falwell.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:46
EID:6abd 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bcd
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting JUDITH BANDSMA to JESSE JONES on 12-18-96
JB>Which is the bigger sacrifice...giving something you have in
JB>abundance with little impact on yourself or JOYFULLY giving something
JB>small that is the last of it's kind without knowing if you'll ever be
JB>able to replace it?
JB>Your priorities are screwy, Jesse.
Get a grip, Judith. Trying to extol the sacrifice of a can of
ginger ale is absurd.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Who is Art, and why does life imitate him?
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:46
EID:5a9a 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bce
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting DAN CEPPA to JESSE JONES on 12-18-96
DC>On (17 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to David Worrell...
DC> JJ> Book of James from the canon. Myself, I like Dietrich
DC> JJ> Bonhoeffer's response: Only those who believe are obedient, and
DC> JJ> only those who obey believe.
DC>Do you have any idea about what you quoted, even an inkling,
DC>as to what it makes your religion and it's "god" sound like?
DC>Most likely not, as you placed the quote in the first place.
Go ahead, Dan, please, enlighten me. Tell me what the above
says about God.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Lorena Bobbit, Mohel from Hell
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:46
EID:9e4f 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bcf
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting ROBERT CURRY to JESSE JONES on 12-18-96
RC>On (16 Dec 96) Jesse Jones wrote to Dan Ceppa...
RC>
RC>Santa Claus, for instance.
RC>
RC>No one here disputes that there is as much evidence for your god
RC>(Yahweh, isn't it?) existing as there is for Santa existing.
RC>The question is whether or not you have any evidence that Santa,
RC>excuse me . . . that your god Yahweh exists except in the form
RC>of mythology, metaphor, or make believe.
RC>
RC>I wonder if you might someday answer that question, Brother Jesse.
I notice that, although you interjected your usual lies, you
failed to answer the question. Would you care to try again?
RC> JJ> Can you prove to me that evidence is required for God to exist?
RC> JJ> For anyone or anything else to exist?
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
A mob has many heads, but no brains.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:46
EID:bf78 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bd0
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting SALLY SPRINGETT to JESSE JONES on 12-19-96
SS> SS> "God's grace" is a notion that means absolutely nothing to me.
SS> SS> While I am not stupid in general, metaphysics put me into a
SS> SS> coma in jig time.
SS> JJ> So don't attempt to argue about things you know nothing about.
SS>I don't believe I said I knew nothing about it nor was I arguing it.
SS>That sentence clearly states that it means nothing to me.
Perhaps that spin could be placed on the first sentence in
isolation, but it makes no sense when applied to the second sentence,
does it?
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Install failed: Attempting to transfer virus to c:
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:47
EID:0ae1 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bd2
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting JOHN JEANNEAULT to ALL CHRISTIANS on 12-13-96
JJ>Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ>or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
JJ>is only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only
JJ>reason the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the
JJ>roasting and ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of
JJ>dialogue or debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and
JJ>arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debating" with
JJ>them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and
destruction. T
JJ>o continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to
JJ>"cast your pearls before swine".
JJ>Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ>presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
JJ>will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ>your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ>them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ>them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant and
JJ>"persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ>of credence by HolySmokers.
John, I saw your post on this Sunday morning, and continued my
routine of replying to various posts to me, or those mentioning me.
But your message kept coming back to me through Church, and the
Holy Spirit has convicted me you are right. Thank you for your insight
and faithfulness, and God bless you.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
God is our refuge and strength... - Psalm 46:1
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jesse Jones
|To: All
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 22 Dec 96 20:25:47
EID:aed9 2196a320
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 25b48bd3
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting JOHN JEANNEAULT to ALL CHRISTIANS on 12-13-96
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ>or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
JJ>is only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only
JJ>reason the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the
JJ>roasting and ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of
JJ>dialogue or debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and
JJ>arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debating" with
JJ>them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and
destruction. T
JJ>o continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to
JJ>"cast your pearls before swine".
JJ>Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ>presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
JJ>will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ>your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ>them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ>them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant and
JJ>"persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ>of credence by HolySmokers.
John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
losers.
Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse to
hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a
testimony against them.""
I will pray for your souls.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/22/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
þ CMPQwk 1.42 1319
The fool says in his heart,"There is no God."
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 135/71 292 992 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: COMPUTER PROGRAMS
|Date: 21 Dec 96 06:19:30
EID:f027 21953260
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 718619e7
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A58CCC7
On 19 Dec 96, Judith Bandsma wrote:
-=> John Brawley spoke thusly to Roger Hunter <=-
JB> never been able to track down: "Oh, what a serpent's tooth it is to
JB> have a thankless child"....
JB> The quote is 'how sharper than a serpent's tooth...' King Lear.
Thanks! Judith.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... In waking a tiger, use a long stick.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:28:37
EID:a586 21964b80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 004cc218
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b22ced
On 13 Dec 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
JB> You want a "test for God" that is both consistent with known science
JB> and consistent with my hypothesis about what It is and how It can
JB> operate?
JB> I got one for you. Just ask.
AS> I'M asking...
All right. Here:
1) Quantum mechanics' "nonlocality" is accepted. It is experimentally
demonstrable. This means the Universe's 'particles' and fields are all
aware of each other "instantly."
2) Chaos theory and its dependency on "initial conditions" is accepted.
Again, experimentally demonstrable.
3) The other "findings of science" which are also demonstrable, are
accepted.
Now: since this hypothesis of mine, in which, Spinoza-like, the Universe
is "intelligent and self-aware," is the hypothesis being statistically
tested, the following test is dependent upon it, and NOT --repeat NOT--
upon any existing religion's particular interpretation of what "God" is.
We assume that if the "God" exists and is as the hypothesis suggests,
He/She/It can detect "human thought" and interpret that in a way
meaningful to It. Thus, if you think thoughts, the "God" is presumed to
be able to detect them.
We further assume that if the "God" is as hypothesized, It's return
influence, if NOT delivered into the brain which thought the thoughts,
is capable of being detected by means of observation in the _external_
world. (This is the part that excludes "subjective effects," as is
necessary for any "test for God" that is "scientific" in nature: we
cannot prove anything based on purely internal-subjective evidence.
Lastly, due mostly to (3) above, we assume that the God's influence upon
matter is minimal in the extreme --so minimal that we might not be able
to detect even a photon's-worth of difference between an effect produced
(by means of (2) above) in nature by the God, and one without.
"Standard deviations" from _coincidence_ are the means of our
detections.
SO: You concentrate, meditate, and otherwise do all you can, to make the
hypothesized "God" aware that you want a "sign" ---an arrangement in-
the-external-world that is an effect from that God.
The "sign" you ask for is consistent with the hypothesis. That is: you
don't ask for a sign that is forbidden or highly unlikely given the
hypothesis itself --it'll have to be a) quantum-probability-possible, b)
chaos-theory constructible, and c) external to your brain.
Example: "God, I want to experience some _very_ unusual external event
in my environment, at a specified time and specified place, far enough
in the future that You have the _time_ to arrange that event."
Specific example: "God, please show me a meteorite burning up in the
atmosphere, about _one_year_ from today, during a one-minute 'time
window' at exactly 12:00 midnight on the Winter Solstice."
(Note that this allows "God" to choose a small particle in space
somewhere NOW, which is already more or less aimed in the right
direction, and over the course of a year's time, subtly and without
violating any quantum rules of physics, nudge it so that it arrives
above your head at the time and location YOU specified.)
Another example: "God, please show me _something_ (unspecified) which is
highly UNlikely, in the behaviour of some animal in the area, IN [insert
chosen location], AT [insert specified time]." (Which time and place
are, again, far enough in the future that the "God" CAN, by means of
both Chaos theory and quantum probability, arrange what you are asking
to be arranged without violation of laws of physics.)
Now, you can arrange ANY such "highly unlikely coincidence," and
probably do it several times before you begin to encroach on
fundamental quantum probability violations. However, what you ask for,
and WHEN it is to be experienced, MUST be consistent with the
hypothesis that it is to be a "test" of. (Obviously, eh?)
Therefore, if you do not quite understand the limitations of the
"experimental setup" I am proposing for your "test of God," I ask that
you submit your proposed "appiontment with God" to _me_ --the originator
of this version of the Spinoza-esque "God hypothesis"-- so that I can
check it to see if what you have proposed is possible, and/or likely,
under the conditions of the hypothesis itself.
(IOW, if you say "God, levitate a boulder on my remote farm next year at
8:37 A.M. near the old barn," I'll tell you "wrong!" (law of physics is
violated: levitation against gravity). BUT: if you say, "God, make a
normally very timid animal come out of the woods and right up to me,
next year at 8:37 A.M. near the old barn on my remote farm," I'd
_probably_ pass that one. It violates no known laws of physics,
although it does require some pretty strong anti-biochemistry activity
in that animals "quantum brain.")
Generally, the less unlikely the event, the easier it will be for "God"
to arrange it. The _important_ part of this "test" is not so much the
exact nature of the event itself (you'd as easily accept the appearance
of a field mouse from the woods, as a bird or a deer), as it is the
TIMING and the PLACEMENT of the event. The "statisitical" nature of the
test is dependent on the unlikelihood that you can ask for an
unambiguously unusual 'event' _long_before_the_fact_, and have it
actually come about. You are not testing God's ability to do physics
violations, you are testing His ability to _detect_your_thought_, and
then to _arrange_ things in advance and to 'control' them ("evolve"
them) so that the aksed-for event comes about, WITHOUT physics
violations.
This is a test, basically, of a) the correctness of the hypothesis that
God is the "quantum nonlocal Mind of the Universe," and b) of the idea
that "God" gives enough of a damn about making an effort to convince YOU
--the putative atheist, antitheist, agnostic or religionist, that He
will actually arrange things to conform to the temporal and spatial
conditions of YOUR personal test.
It is also a test for a God effect that most religions would deny any
value to, but as a scientifically minded person who _understands_ what's
being tested and why, _you_CAN_ recognize the statistical/scientific
value of it. The test is possible because it, perhaps for the first
time in "religious history," is concerned with obtaining a "sign" whose
primary aspect is the unusualness of its _timing_ rather than the
unusualness of its _physical_manifestation_, and which is not completely
"subjective." Don't ask God to do what He either cannot, or has not
ever been observed doing. Gross physical "Miracles" don't happen; but
"Providence" may 'happen all the time.' (You're merely "empiricizing
Providence" with this "test for God.")
(By the way, DON'T _miss_ your appointment....) (*grin*)
Comments?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Science without Religion is lame... --Einstein
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Brawley
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:12:50
EID:65c7 21965180
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 00c87215
REPLY: 1:2613/228.666@fidonet af0ec0ff
On 15 Dec 96, John Passaniti wrote:
> You want a "test for God" that is both consistent with
> known science and consistent with my hypothesis about
> what It is and how It can operate?
JP> >
> I got one for you. Just ask.
JP> Just a couple comments.
John, I posted a short version of the "test for God" to Al Schroeder
this date (12/22). Please look for it....
If you don't see it, please note same to me and I'll send you a copy.
Thanks. (Did you get my message to you, on your earlier questions?)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Who is this who darkens council with words without knowledge?" Job
38
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:30:00
EID:aa15 21955bc0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32BCE7E9
MH>-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Jesse Jones <=-
>> DC>You surely don't. You claim that you are defined by God[sic].
>> DC>IOW, without evidence that claimed god exists, you are an
>> DC>undefined entity.
>> DC>Now, show evidence that your god exists, Jesse.
> JJ> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
> JJ> evidence is required for God to exist.
MH> So you would agree with Plantinga that belief in God can be "properly
MH> basic?"
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
God
MH> exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether we
MH> believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
What is THIS! Mr Hard Case Hardy, asking for evidence, about a
god even. O'dear, Rapture happen and i missed it again. Shit, talk
about no luck at the draw.
Hi Mike.
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether they
MH> guess right?
Thats the 'question', we were asking you, now, a turn about. Poor Mike,
another Not True Christian, getting burned at the stake.
Good to see your still alive and kicking.
** The Trouble with liveing sacrifices **
** is they keep crawing off the altar. **
* SLMR 2.1a * My life flashed by my eyes &I wasn't listed in the cast
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Star goat - go figure
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:46:00
EID:5c28 21957dc0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32BCE7EA
>RV> F=1.6 x 10^-19 x 3 x 10^6 x 2 x 10^-5 x 1
>RV> = 9.6 x 10^-18 newton
>RV> if electron moveing horizontally east to west at 3 x 10^6 m./sec
>RV> earth's field is 2 x 10^-5 weber/m.^2
>DM> We love it when you talk dirty . . . .
>rv> OOOOOOooooo baby, flex that field again.
FR>I love the way the lepton field vibrates when modulated. Makes me all
tingl
FR>inside.
The radiant engery produced by your oscillateing crystal, is enought to
span the universe ; via this, you, titilate all.
~*~ Divide by zero error -- protection violation 0666 --
truth entered brain.
Truthfilter circle 0 fault. Creationist halted. Please call
the ICR. - C. J. Henshaw
* SLMR 2.1a * Never Anger A Dragon , or a Women !
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Re: 2 Corinthians 9: 1/2
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:42:00
EID:2b5a 21961540
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32BCE7EB
>> >RV> If the Jesus rose from a so called 'death' then he > >RV> didn't really die. Other then Jesue loyal followers as projected
in
>>
>> BJ>I'm curious why you doubt He was male? There's no reason to believe
>>
>RV> As to being male, it's about in the same boat as to being killed and
>RV> comeing alive again. We really have no evidence to suggest that either
>RV> posibilites are true. As far as anyone can say, Jesus could be a women
>RV> in drag. Though why a women would want to belittle herself that way,
is
>RV> another question.
BJ>After reading the above, what seems more likely to me is that you're
just
BJ>being hostile.
"hostile", not I. Sounds more like a Christian Fundy, projection.
Actually, it was a spir of the moment thought. We have no real idea
who this, so called Jesus was. What it looked like or just what it
really was. I have as much evidence that Jesus was a women, as any
Christian has that Jesus was a God of the Christian, nature. In other
words. . . none, at all.
So it was a funny, that fell flat.
>> BJ>otherwise, unless you subscribe to the sensationalistic approach of
t
>> BJ>of the Jesus Seminar, who seem to approach the early Christians as
if
>> BJ>were pathological liars, with something to gain (which we know as
not
>> BJ>case, as the first 3 centuries of Christianity are marred with persec
>> BJ>martyrdom.)
>>
>RV> Well, christians had total world power, and all the money they could
>RV> steal. We know christian lied in the pass, we know christians lie today
>RV> and it's a sure bet that christians will lie tomorrow.
BJ>And the same with other men, whoever they may be. Sinners are sinners,
are
BJ>they not?
Sinners of all versions. The side point is that, there should be less
Christians sinners then any other faith. If you have the correct God
and belief, that is. You do have big daddy, watching over you all the
time. Just going by the so called Holy Relic ie: bible
BJ>I don't quite remember when Christians ever had "world power" though.
BJ>Particularly in the formative stages of the Church...unless you consider
bei
BJ>fed to lions or crucified in circuses an expression of such "worldly
power".
Then you don't know the history of the RC church and the History of
The Christian Faith.
>> BJ>If someone's vital signs cease, they're dead. Jesus was quicked once
>> BJ>and not only rose, but rose to a completly different life; unto etern
>> BJ>The mystery of the ressurection is not merely concerned with a corpse
>> BJ>back up, but rising to a glorified existance.
>>
>RV> You forgot about a material body, rideing on a sun bean. Anti-gravity
>RV> , yup, sure sounds like a lie to me. How about all those dead saints
>RV> comeing out of the ground and walking around also. No mention of that
>RV> minor detail.
BJ>All of which obviously happened. Else, the witnesses would not have
died fo
BJ>their convictions.
What witnesses ?
Which Historiacal book has this information ?
BJ>One can see amazing things of this nature to this day though. Go to
the
BJ>shrine of an incorruptible; some of the bodies are centuries old, never
been
BJ>embalmed, and are still perfectly intact. In fact they look more like
they'
BJ>sleeping than actually being dead.
And what does this show ? How does this support that dead bodies can
come alive again, if anything it shows that dead bodies say dead.
It also supports that dead bodies don't fly on sun beams, also.
>> BJ>Consider that they, and other disciples over the next 40 days, were
t
>> BJ>witnesses. Who else would write about it, unless they saw it?
>>
>RV> Now why would that be. A so called dead god, alive again and yet still
>RV> afraid to get in touch with the head chief who order his death. What
>RV> a wimp god.
BJ>Actually it is only his flesh which died. Soul and body seperated.
He neve
BJ>ceased to be.
So you have some EVIDENCE for this "soul" thing ? Then you can try to
support that the soul and body will seperate or not seperate.
BJ>Why would he get in touch with Caiaphas?
Some shit head kills me and i find myself alive a few days later. You
can bet, i'm going back to the killer and scare the shit out of
him/her/it. And I'm not even a god, now if a god. That god could have
a lot of fun, not to belabor the point. The best way to prove a point
is to show the killer, it didn't work and it will never work.
Your god, missed the point. Then too, going by the book of lies, your
god never did understand humans and human nature.
>> >RV> No one as it is laid out in the so called holy book saw that Jesus
>> >RV> from the dead. And anothe slight problem,as laid out in the holy
bo
>>
>> BJ>Ah, but one of the Apostles did see Him die (along with hundreds of
o
>> BJ>and it's likely all of them saw his corpse as it was placed in the
to
>>
>RV> We have a book, some times know as the book of lies. ie: holy bible
>RV> which claims that. As to the truth of the statement. It leaves much
to
>RV> be desire.
BJ>And at the same time we only have the words of others (And without nearly
as
BJ>much guarantee of their accuracy) of other historical events and persons.
D
And were they also GODS ?
BJ>you as vehemently attack these as absolutly unreliable? Or is your hostilit
BJ>and criticism that conveinient?
Nope. It's only when someone comes along and tells me , i should do
this or that because of a none evidence god/dess. Then i do question
their judgement. Don't matter to me, what god or goddess, it happens to
be. All's fair in human and god/dess, wars.
>> BJ>And they all certainly witnessed Him after He had risen. They were
s
>> BJ>convicted, that they all died as martyrs, rather than deny what they
>> BJ>be true (the most famous of these being the martyrdom of St.Peter,
in
>> BJ>around 64 AD, under Emperor Nero.)
>>
>RV> Boy, you and your buddy Al will get along great. So humans die for
>RV> what they happen to believe is true. Humans have been doing that from
>RV> day one, till now. Come up with a better reason to show a god happening.
>>> Continued to next message
* SLMR 2.1a * "Psalsm 137:9 - Fun For The Whole Family"
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Re: 2 Corinthians 9: 2/2
|Date: 22 Dec 96 02:42:00
EID:2baa 21961540
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32BCE7EC
>>> Continued from previous message
BJ>It is one thing to die for what one supposes is true. It's another to
die f
BJ>your own lie, willingly...when mere submission would have let you out
of it.
I did say, humans dieing for what they beLIEve, it doesn't have to
be real or factual. Humans are stupid and will believe is all kinds
of silly things. ie: spooks ,souls, god and gods
goddess,angels,spirts,demons,devils,sin,evil, you know. . . shit like
that. It doesn't need to be a lie, if they believe in getting pick up
in a UFO and talked with a LGM, to them. It's a real fact . . . see
truth not a lie. To someone who doesn't believe in LGM and there is no
EVIDENCE for LGM. Then they class it as a lie, or at best, the believer
is just being silly and not wantting to face the facts of life.
>>>RV> * Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
>> BJ>I don't see what the point of this tagline is? Alot of your post
see
>RV> It happens to be an Origin line. Hitler, also happen to be a Christian.
BJ>Though I don't doubt he was baptized, I also know he was involved in
the
BJ>occult. Part of his hatred of Jews, was because he felt they were the
BJ>ultimate source of Christianity and it's value system, which he so hated.
Not only Christian Hitler played with the occult but it is likely that
many Christians have played with the occult. Not sure if that good
old boy hated jews or not. It's more likely that the Jews down through
the ages had been classed as the Christ Killers and weren't like all
that much. Hitler just toss more shit at them as a common target.
Never forget the RC church did support that good old boy. Christian
LOVE, like what can you say. Support Christian Love, kill a Jew.
Yup, sounds like a great teaching to follow.
>> BJ>and not really after dialogue and intellectual discussion...more like
>> BJ>an opportunity to gode people.
>>
>RV> Yup. None believers hear that statement from the so called Christian
all
>RV> the time. Come up with a more orginal statement then all the past dead
>RV> christians of the HolySmoke fame. Better yet, be a better Christian
and
>RV> come up with some real evidence of this god of yours. Try not to be
a
BJ>Open up your heart then. I'm not asking you to be guilible, or
BJ>anti-intellectual. These are not admirable traits in any sense. I do
ask
BJ>though that you not reply to me as if I'm an enemy.
Yup, another common Christian Fundy statement, "Open up your heart...".
I think the Christians can up with that as they were cutting down the
new converts on the battle field. kids,women,men...see pagen.
Open Your Heart, with this christian sword point. Save a sinner with
a sword through the heart. What a path for a god to follow.
As to you being an "enemy", where, pray tell to you get that idea?
I've never even met you though i may have send some other nasty question
to you on the SWO net. If asking a question is all you need to class
that person as the E N E M Y, you got a problem there. Soooooo, whats
this problem of yours < it appears that it's yours,since i don't class
those who ask questions as my 'enemy' > ?
So to help with that 'not be guilible' bit. I like testable evidence for
my gods or goddess, have any ?
Got any good historical evidence for this god of yours ? other then
the bible. Lets not be a False Christian and use the book of lies
ie: bible
Lets go with those dead saints comeing out of the ground. Something like
that would really shake up the goverment of that time. Sure as hell
they would of mention it. If it really happen, that is.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Psalsm 137:9 - Fun For The Whole Family"
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 221/1503 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:41:00
EID:8017 21958d20
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Roger Hunter <=-
LB> Who cares...it's bizarre all it's own. An Infinite mind thinking up
LB> diversions
LB> for one? God as Cosmic Cruise Director? And if he's thinking up all
my
LB> diversions....isn't that going to play hell with the pesky free-will
LB> again?
Oh well, but you see, that's DIFFERENT....
I can't get Al to agree that infinite existance cannot be pleasant.
I suspect he just hasn't come to grips with "infinite" yet.
... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GOD VS. SANTA CLAUS
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:53:00
EID:6150 21958ea0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> I don't think so, Al. You are arguing from incredulity.
AS> But I am human...and thus can identify with the feelings of other
AS> humans.
And on the basis of this you can make infallible judgements on
what people will do 2,000 years ago in a different culture?
I still don't think so, Al. Now you're arguing from conceit.
AS> But realize what He has to endure first! Whippings, dragging the
AS> cross to Golgotha, the nails through the hands, hours of Crucifixion,
AS> a spear in the side....what made Jesus sure He would survive such?
AS> Drug or no drug, He was taking an awful chance. Would anyone these
AS> days be willing to go through an electrocution, even if he thinks he
AS> may have rigged up some insulation that MIGHT work, even if it was for
AS> a good cause?
Al, in all seriousness let me ask you this; if you sincerely believed
that God wanted you to do all of the above and more, would you refuse?
Might you not earnestly pray, sweating blood, to be excused? And
in the end, wouldn't you DO it?
Think about it.
AS> historical Jesus, and notes how the competing theories debunked each
AS> other to show why to consider THEIR theory the best...and in so,
AS> cancelled each other out.
RH> Only if you believe them all.
AS> No; one school raised objections to the others. And all of them are
AS> good.
Oh, come ON! They can't all be correct. If one plot is true, the
book debunking it is wrong. Remember, the default position in
science is the null hypothesis. A reasonable explanation for
a proposed supernatural event is presumed true.
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Coridon Henshaw
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Test
|Date: 21 Dec 96 20:09:38
EID:eb6d 2195a120
MSGID: 1:250/820 32bc45ee
REPLY: 1:105/40.762 54cd7545
On Tuesday December 17 1996 at 19:45, Ed Mills wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DC>> On (15 Dec 96) Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC>> ... 667: The Guy Who Lives Across The Street From The Beast.
MG>> ...668: You do the Beast and it owes you one.
EM>> 666i: BMW of the Beast.
DC>> ... 666tii: Turbo charged BMW of the Beast!
DC>> ... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago hit song of the Beast.
DC>> 666! Don't you ever stop to eat, you Beast?
EM> 666 Fahrenheit: oven temperature for roast Beast.
443556: Square beast.
295408296: Cubed beast.
2.823474229: Logged beast.
25.8069758: Rooted beast.
5.080056673: Well rooted beast.
1010011010: Binary beast.
0101100101: Not a binary beast.
-0.809016994: Sining beast.
0.999844374056783: Beast with a cosiner.
-1.37638192: Beast off on a tangent.
--- GoldED/2 2.50 UNREG
* Origin: For sale: 30 pieces of silver. Contact N. Gingrich. (1:250/820)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 250/820 99 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Coridon Henshaw
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 21 Dec 96 20:25:33
EID:c43d 2195a320
MSGID: 1:250/820 32bc4862
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 67b3f7c7
KW>> Name Location Alignment In the 'Smoke
Coridon Henshaw Toronto, Canada atheist 5 years, on and
off.
--- GoldED/2 2.50 UNREG
* Origin: For sale: 30 pieces of silver. Contact N. Gingrich. (1:250/820)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 250/820 99 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Coridon Henshaw
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:17:50
EID:66d8 2195b220
MSGID: 1:250/820 32bc638a
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2b556c96
On Monday December 16 1996 at 13:13, Mimi Milstein wrote to Joe Shedlock:
MM> I don't think is was or is a point of whether some of the coastal
MM> Canadian provinces really want to become part of the States, but rather
a
MM> matter of what would happen IF Quebec seceded.
I don't think many of the Canadian public would want to join the US if Quebec
seperated. I would go to Europe (I have British citizenship) if Canada
decided to join the US. I just hope that the UK doesn't leave the EU.
MM> The urge still seem to be alive in certain quarters.
The 'urge' for Quebec seperation is only held by airy-fairy morons who want
all the benefits of Canada (read: federal government money) without all
the percieved hassles (read: being required to respect the human rights
of non-francophones). Quebec seperatists's are basically terminal whiners
who will never be satisified unless the whole world treats them like gods
and speaks French.
--- GoldED/2 2.50 UNREG
* Origin: For sale: 30 pieces of silver. Contact N. Gingrich. (1:250/820)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 250/820 99 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Coridon Henshaw
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:54:30
EID:94eb 2195b6c0
MSGID: 1:250/820 32bc6b36
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org af958b3b
On Monday December 16 1996 at 21:46, Sean McCullough wrote to Doug Lee:
SM> Montreal, your largest city, isn't much bigger (population) than Salt
Lake
SM> City. And Vancouver's smaller than Seattle, if memory serves me correctly.
Toronto and suburbs, at 4 million people, is larger than Montreal.
Care to shove your foot in your mouth again?
--- GoldED/2 2.50 UNREG
* Origin: For sale: 30 pieces of silver. Contact N. Gingrich. (1:250/820)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 250/820 99 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Mario Gonzalez
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Utterly evil death cult
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:15:13
EID:4f60 219449e0
MSGID: 4:972/4.0 32bc22d2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet af8ee36f
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
> We should also teach our children the pain, horror, and pain of atheism.
This is a funny tagline!
Dr. Mario Gonz lez
__o Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico.
_ \<._ gonzalez@telnor.net
(_)/ (_)______.-.______.-.______ Vamos a andar en bicicleta
... All the logic in the world fails to penetrate a closed mind.
--- GEcho/32 1.20/Pro
* Origin: -=+=- LA CONEXION MEXICANA = TIJUANA, MEXICO -=+=- (4:972/4)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 972/4 202/707 701 777 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: WHY?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:24:00
EID:7554 21965b00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4393
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> puts up with. Of course, the unjustifed ones account for maybe five
MH> percent of his criticism. :-)
JB> Aren't you being a bit generous?
Well, I try to see the best in people. :-)
... Behaviorial Research: Pulling habits out of rats.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:30:00
EID:2dbd 21965bc0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4394
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Michael Hardy <=-
SQ>> And the evidence for that is...what?
JJ>> Your demands for evidence make you just another fundamentalist,
JJ>> Stevie.
SQ> His inability to back what he says makes -him- a Fundamentalist.
I never did put much value on "blind" faith.
MH> No, they make him sensible. Your protestations suggest you know you
MH> have none.
SQ> Am I being defended by -another- Michael Hardy from
SQ> Alabama? :)
hehe ... y'never know.
... Pull the other one.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:43:00
EID:b629 21968560
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
Hmmmm ... I didn't see that until Lynda pointed it out, Al, but she may
be right.
... He who thinks by inch, yet talks by yard, should be kicked by foot.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:55:00
EID:8c12 219686e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4396
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to David Worrell <=-
AS> I think so, subject to your correction.
DW> You say you do....
AS> I think that the universe is, on a whole, electrically
AS> neutral--no matter how much local areas might have
AS> positively or negatively charged areas.
DW> . . . then go on to demonstrate that you don't.
DW> Dave's New Year's Resolution #1: Try not to bash my head against brick
DW> walls so often.
AS> Sorry? You don't think the universe as a whole is electrically
AS> neutral?
He gets a charge out of it. :-)
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:57:00
EID:5ff0 21968720
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4397
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Marty Leipzig <=-
ML> After the fact. Although I may be in the position for the same
ML> type of compensation in the near future. I'm going to fight
ML> for this one like a pitbull on a fundy's arm if it ever happens
ML> again.
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper. He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
There's a camp? And me without my insect repellent ...
... The invitation said black tie only. Why are all of you in suits?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:00:00
EID:6e87 21968800
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4398
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Curtis Johnson to Ronald Vass <=-
CJ>> FWIW, Ronald, I think I've observed an upward trend in your
CJ>> grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. The practice must be
CJ>> helping.
RV> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
RV> ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
You can be Comma King if you like. I warn you, though, it's a heavy
burden. :-)
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:05:00
EID:2f58 219688a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4399
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Rice to Fredric Rice <=-
DR> Total Messages: 2510
DR> Total Fucked Messages: 269
DR> Total Fucks: 414
DR> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
DR> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
DR> in each.
fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
... For every action, there is an equal and opposite rationalization.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:08:00
EID:27fb 21968900
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
DM> Is this the same Hardy? Did the old one post from
DM> Alabama? (I thought he was in Texas). The prose style is
DM> rather better than I remember, too, but then I have not paid
DM> much attention to him for some years now, so I may be
DM> mistaken on that head.
LB> :) Its the same Michael Hardy.
DM> Wonders will never cease--I looked at some of his posts and he
DM> is sounding almost human.
Gee, thanks. (I think) :-)
DM> So where have you been keeping youself, lady? (Would that
DM> qualify as being a "kept woman?)
It might. :-)
... Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a theologian!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Comrade Fredric
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:14:00
EID:5fae 219689c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to Fredric Rice <=-
FR>JJ> For the subtlety impaired, my reference to your stay
FR>jJ> in the former Soviet Union had nothing to do with your
FR>JJ> passport entries, but instead recalled your vigorous
FR>JJ> defense of the F.S.U. as the moral equivalent of the U.S.A.
Florida State University?
... This score just in: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:16:00
EID:a2d9 21968a00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg <=-
JS> I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that a homosexual is a
JS> person just as I am, and deserves the same respect I desire.
MG> Why would homosexuality be a sin? Just because it says so int he
MG> bible? If the answer is "yes", you need to think the matter over.
JS> Without the Bible to tell us so, there would be no notion of sin.
So then, perhaps sin is simply an invention of the culture which wrote
the Bible, and has no external reality?
JS> ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - Acts 9:5
Who you callin' a prick, milk crate boy? hehehehe
... You can do better than that, Jim. (You CAN, can't you?)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:23:00
EID:85dd 21968ae0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to All <=-
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
JB> me know.
I SEE YOU, JUDITH!!! :-)
... For every action, there is an equal and opposite rationalization.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:28:00
EID:ecd7 21968b80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> On (17 Dec 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Michael Hardy...
MH> I'm struck by the way science has made God smaller and smaller.
AS> Larger and larger, rather.
RC>
RC> Is there a point of common ground here? Perhaps becoming so much
RC> "larger and larger" has caused a corresponding decrease in density,
RC> making for a more and more tenuous god. A god indistinguishable
RC> from sheer make believe is not humanly relevant, so it is smaller
RC> in that sense at the very least.
More remote, maybe, would have been a better description. The point
remains the same ... if God's role in the universe is limited to
winding it up and letting it go, in what way does God's existence
matter to any of us?
AS> Anyway, God is by nature the ULTIMATE explanation.
RC>
RC> As it doesn't explain anything, how can you honestly call it any
RC> sort of "explanation?" Dogmatism, yes. Belief, most assuredly.
RC> But an explanation? How so?
RC>
AS> To say that God allows natural law to shape us does not say
AS> He didn't necessarily interfere at certain times on a more
AS> individual level. If I devise a schedule for my children to
AS> do things, that doesn't mean I can't break that schedule
AS> myself when I feel the need warrants it, for instance.
RC>
RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
RC> miraculous intervention.
RC>
RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
RC>
An excellent point.
... I've made up my mind. Now to find some facts ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: .
|Date: 22 Dec 96 08:44:50
EID:379d 21964580
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc463
RC> Generally, living organisms *are* Von Neumann machines.
AS> Some are Alfred E. Neuman machines...
MH> What, me worry?
And instead of Spy vs. Spy, it's Theist vs. Atheist here...
... I would sooner be notorious than unknown.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absense of belief
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:52:40
EID:18be 21968680
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc464
AS> Now, do you believe in the regularity of the laws of nature?
RC>
RC> No. Some regularities can be *observed* in nature. And considering
RC> that a "natural law" is a description of regular behaviors, anything
RC> which can be called a "law of nature" must be regular by definition.
But interestingly enough, that's not how it appears on the surface.
Indeed, science begins by trying to EXPLAIN irregularities in the observed
order of things....for instance, the Michelson-Morley experiments, which
seemed at variance with the scientific theory of the time, led to a theory
to EXPLAIN the contradictions, by Einstein. Or things like the slit-screen
experiment led to quantum mechanics. In neither case did people retreat
to
the idea that such things are TOTALLY irregular, although quantum
mechanics says it is for individual instances, just not in the aggregate.
And even so, theories pop up to explain even the irregularities of quantum
mechanics...like the Copenhagen interpretation, or Everett's "many-worlds"
idea, or the transactional approach (my personal favorite). We don't just
observe irregularities and go, "that's that." It is the apparent
irregularity that prompts each new hypothesis...and it does so because we
refuse to acquiesce to irregularities. Science doesn't feel it's job is
complete until we have formed and verified a hypothesis that says they are
not irregularities at all. Nature as we see is seems a mass of
irregularities. The stove which lit all right yesterday won't light today;
the water which was wholesome last year is poisonous this year.
RC> Again, this is an area where belief is less than useless.
Nonsense. The whole mass of seemingly irregular experience could never
have been turned into scientific knowledge at all unless we had brought
to
it a faith or prejudice in uniformity which almost no number of
disappointments can shake.
And when we DO form it, then we STILL hold a prejudice or faith. That it
will continue to do so. It is useless to say that it has hitherto always
been confirmed by the event, unless you silently add, "And therefore
always will be." Mankind has existed on earth as a literate culture for
some eight thousand years or so...i.e., when such suppositions could be
built on and passed from culture to culture. That is a mere 1/500,000th
roughly of the lifetime of the Earth, as far as we can determine...a
pitifully small slice to form an opinion about. We observe things in far
galaxies, billions of years old, and INTERPRET them in light of what we
observe, and sometimes they make sense...and sometimes initially they
don't, like the way it took us decades to figure out a plausible explanation
of
how the quasars could send such great amounts of energy.
I submit that our faith or prejudice in the uniformity of nature is at
the bottom of any scientific enterprise. And I further submit it is a
faith in that which first led us to scientific inquiry--IN THE TEETH OF
THE OBSERVED IRRATIONALITY of the world.
... Logical thinking provides a nice contrast to the real world.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:35:51
EID:aeec 21964c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc465
RH> he wants us to do our best. Many lifetimes are required, but
RH> eventually everyone does get there. So, yes, Hitler goes to heaven.
AS>
AS> Ahhhh, a reincarnation scenario? That does make at least some sense,
RH> The author is informed at one point that this is his 676th life (or
RH> close to that number, I don't have the book before me).
I wonder what determines when you start a first life...
AS> know what I would do with Hitler in a reincarnation scenario...save
AS> perhaps to incarnate him as a slug.)
RH> Well, somebody's gotta be the slugs...
Ever read "The Sign" by Lord Dunsany? Where a guy, very conceited, became
convinced of reincarnation, and hypnotized himself into making a
particular sign, so that the person he was talking to, much younger than
he, would know it when his next life...which he was convinced would be
that of a millionaire, or a king, or some kind of ruler...would
subconsciously make that sign? Well, after he died, the younger man was
walking in the older man's garden...when a snail crawled the wall and
started making the sign. The younger man stayed there for a hour or two,
and the snail left a trail that executed the sign as clear as could be.
RH> You might also wonder how someone could get depraved enough to be
RH> a Hitler. And why bitch about Hitler's 6 million when Stalin offed
RH> 20 million. Or God destroying EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH, with
RH> a few exceptions. Now THERE'S real depravity IMHO.
If that were the end, it might be. But I don't think it is.
AS> You're right. "Get into Heaven" rather.
RH> I wish a few of your cult-mates were as quick to admit their errors.
RH> Even minor ones like that...
Thanks.
... I passed my ethics course. I cheated, of course.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:54:38
EID:8624 219686c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc466
AS> start one of our own. (#irc, despite recent forays where I had
AS> everybody challenging me on why we think God exists...nothing like
AS> being the lone person in a big argument, ENORMOUS fun...really doesn't
AS> lend itself to SERIOUS discussion as well as this medium.)
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
Yep. There's that. One can make a better case if one proofreads and goes
back and tries to iron out inconsistencies.
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
As you will. Although I notice that Mike also seemed to think this was a
better forum for such.
... Therapy is good, but screaming obsceneties is cheaper.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:41:22
EID:391d 21964d20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc467
GtP>> Have you noticed that as most of FIDO fades away, HolySmoke grows
GtP>> apace. What will we ever do if FIDO, um, passes away??
AS> Well, I hope it won't happen, but there ARE usenet groups.
GtP> I hope not, too, since I still (hint, hint. . .where's my 2x4?) do
not
GtP> have my own personal Internet link.
Glen, I have a suggestion for a Yule present to get Gwenny...Gwenny, you
would LOVE it. There is so much information you can get at the tip of your
fingers...
AS> We could start one of our own. (#irc, despite recent forays where I
AS> had everybody challenging me on why we think God exists...nothing like
AS> being the lone person in a big argument, ENORMOUS fun...really doesn't
AS> lend itself to SERIOUS discussion as well as this medium.)
GtP> SERIOUS discussion. . . here?
Every once in a while.
AS> BTW, happy Yule, or however you enjoy this season of the year. You're
AS> one of the better people here.
GtP> Yep, we do Yule. It looks like it will be splendid. We will be
GtP> blessing our grandson at sunrise, after staying up all night watching
GtP> Monte Python.
As I recall, Monty Python is your usual thing on Yule. And now for
something completely different...
In any case, enjoy.
... Type unto others as you would have them type unto you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:19:13
EID:3206 21965260
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc468
AS>> That depends on how the constants are changed, Robert.
RC> And you can demonstrate the truth of your extraordinarily general
RC> assertion for "most" of these alternate cases? Do tell.
AS> Example by example? Certainly.
RC>
RC> The exhaustive case-by-case approach is not going to work, as you've
RC> already mentioned "millions" of computer models, without being able
RC> to reach, even with every one of these put together, as much as just
RC> a *millionth* of one percent of the cases.
Then if one presupposes an infinite set of universes, one would say that
you could never reach any sort of consensus. So it's heads I win and tails
you lose.
But why don't the examples we observe follow the distribution of the
larger set, IF it is random? The examples we have computed all indicate
this. Should we then say that they are meaningless because they are not
large enough? By your reasoning they will never be large enough.
And shall we turn it on its ear? Some here assert it unfounded to
believe that Jesus rose from the dead, because no one has been observed
by
science to rise from the dead, in all the records we have that are
reliable. Well...Arthur C.Clarke once calculated that at least a hundred
billion human beings have lived. And that is a small percentage of the
number of human beings who MAY be born, if we last hundreds of millions
of
years. Is it then false for others to assert that Jesus coudln't have been
risen from the dead on THOSE grounds, because the records we have are only
one-millionth of one percent of the possible cases?
Why or why not?
(Of course, any believer knows that it is not to be disputed that human
beings, in the normal course of things, do NOT rise from the dead, which
is why we consider Jesus more than just a human being.)
RC> this? Honestly, now. Are you joking? Trolling? On acid?
All of the above.
... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:20:52
EID:56e6 21965280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc469
DC> The big question is whether you are trolling or truly questioning.
AS> He is not trolling. Scouts honor.
MH> And if you can't trust Al, who can you trust? :-)
The government.
... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:38:53
EID:c3aa 219654c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46a
MH> I'm struck by the way science has made God smaller and smaller.
AS> Larger and larger, rather.
RC>
RC> Is there a point of common ground here? Perhaps becoming so much
RC> "larger and larger" has caused a corresponding decrease in density,
RC> making for a more and more tenuous god. A god indistinguishable
RC> from sheer make believe is not humanly relevant, so it is smaller
RC> in that sense at the very least.
No; mankind always perceived God as acting outside their immediate realm
of experience in physical terms...that a God caused the lightning, or the
thunder, or whatnot. They observed the phenomena, but thought He was the
cause. As we grow in knowledge, we expand the boundaries of what we know,
but God is still outside of that. Still, the regularity and selectivity
of
the laws we DO observe says something about the Mind that created it.
AS> Anyway, God is by nature the ULTIMATE explanation.
RC>
RC> As it doesn't explain anything, how can you honestly call it any
RC> sort of "explanation?" Dogmatism, yes. Belief, most assuredly.
RC> But an explanation? How so?
As an explanation of why the universe went to "the bother of existing" in
Hawking's phrase, or the answer to the philosophical question of why there
is something rather than nothing. No argument that in theistic terms, it
just removes it a step...God being uncaused rather than the universe. But
it explains the regularities we observe as being there because they were
thought up by a Rational Mind.
AS> To say that God allows natural law to shape us does not say
AS> He didn't necessarily interfere at certain times on a more
AS> individual level. If I devise a schedule for my children to
AS> do things, that doesn't mean I can't break that schedule
AS> myself when I feel the need warrants it, for instance.
RC>
RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
RC> miraculous intervention.
RC>
RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
The best, I think.
Most of the miracles which are at the heart of my religion, concern Death
and Resurrection. They are not exceptions (however rarely they occur) nor
irrelavancies. It is precisely on such great subjects that the whole story
of mankind turns. (Which may explain why a dying/reborn god is a
almost-universal belief, as Campbell showed so much in A HERO OF A
THOUSAND FACES.) The whole story hinges on Death and Resurrection. It's
a
long story, with a complicated plot...yet hints are given us throughout
history (in the form of those Corn-King myths) until it finds its
culmination in someone dying and being reborn NOT in a mythical Golden
Age, a historical never-never land, but in a decade which can roughly be
dated and whose followers were definitely active as little to twenty to
thirty years later. And the subject of Death and Resurrection necessarily
involves us all, the abused and the abuser, the poor and the rich, the
intelligent and the mentally challenged. For we all must face death.
... Is it any wonder that Charon runs with a skeleton crew?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Can't do constants
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:43:08
EID:2500 21965560
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46b
JB> Isn't QEdit a commercial program?
AS> I was going to send him. I certainly wasn't going to encourage him to
JB> Why the defensiveness? I asked because I wasn't sure and THOUGHT it
JB> was a commercial program. I've caught myself at times saying 'let me
JB> give you a copy of 'x' and then later realizing that I couldn't do it
JB> because it was a commercial program and not shareware. It happens.
JB> Sometimes a reminder is welcome.
And so it was. Thank you, Judith. And may you have a happy
Hannukah/Christmas/Yule/holiday season/few days off.
... New clinical studies show there are no answers!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:49:09
EID:01e5 21965620
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46c
AS> True, and so would I. But it was an answer written while Celsus'
AS> book was in general circulation,
RC>
RC> In a world with what rate of literacy, Al?
Less than ours, better than the Dark Ages'.
RC> Religious apologists show little self-control even TODAY when it comes
RC> to misrepresenting their opponents, and I see no reason to suspect
RC> they were any more honest back then when it was certainly a lot easier
RC> to get away with such things.
Not so sure. The total number of books was much smaller. A large private
library could contain most of the books that an average literate person
would know. As a consequence, it was harder to get away with things in
THAT time without presupposing the reader had read the book you were
criticizing. (Besides, in a volume entitled "ON CELSUS" it is reasonable
to assume it would be picked up mainly by those interested in, and perhaps
more likely to know, Celsus' arguments.
AS> and addressed such assertions as, say, Jesus being fathered by
AS> a Roman soldier. The answers didn't seem to neglect any obvious
AS> ways to put Christianity down.
RC>
RC> How would you know what was evaded? Do you have the originals by
RC> Celsus to examine? Or did your religious forebears BURN THEM ALL?
As Diocletian and his cohorts burned Christian documents first? Yes.
AS> Celsus, for instance, seems to confirm some of the names of the
AS> Gospel writers
RC>
RC> _Celsus_? Where exactly do you keep your copies of his "seeming"
RC> confirmation, Al? In an alternate universe where your book-burning
RC> religion failed for some reason to destroy its early critics?
Direct reference to same from the apologist who answers him, of course.
As
for my book-burning religion...it is a failing of many ancient societies,
and Augustus did so about the time Jesus was BORN. Being Christian does
not make one immune to the deficiencies of the time, more's the pity.
... Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:52:10
EID:3f4b 21965680
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46d
AS> But certainly I would rather have the original. Who wouldn't?
AS> Celsus, for instance, seems to confirm some of the names of the Gospel
AS> writers, and writing at a time roughly comparable to Iraneus, he would
AS> be a valuable source from an outside viewpoint....and still is, by
AS> implication, but it would be better to have the original.
MH> That was late second century. By then, the names of the gospel
MH> writers would be established tradition.
Which was still disputed by some as late as the fourth century? We must
also remember that Herodotus, for instance, wrote of incidents that he
himself didn't witness, either, and happened in a previous generation...
... Science Fiction:The only genuine consciousness-raising drug.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: coincidence none
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:59:17
EID:f2e0 21965760
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46e
RC> your information, it happens to be a fact that any sufficiently
RC> large collection of discrete entities will *approximate* a
RC> continuous range.
AS> Certainly.
RC>
RC> Certainly _what_?
I was agreeing with you, Robert, that any sufficiently large colleciton
of
discrete entities will approximate a continuous range. That is why I put
"Certainly" immediately after your statement of same.
AS> And we can ask why the discreteness splits one way and not
AS> another.
RC>
RC> I have no idea what you mean to convey by "discreteness splits one
RC> way and not another." Care to rephrase that?
If you wish. It seemed clear in context. It is questions about how atomic
weights for elements split that led to theorizing about atomic structure.
It is questions about how some subatomic particles are arranged that
resulted in quark theory. Etc., etc., etc.
... A minds journey begins with a single "Why?": Confucius
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:10:57
EID:da9d 21965940
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46f
AS> Yes, we ARE down to basics here. As far as we can tell, there is
AS> nothing that determines why the constants adopt THIS value than
AS> another. Which---IF they seemed totally random, IF they seemed
RH> You keep asserting that they COULD be different. Why?
Because if there are no higher laws, no metalaws, no supernature, there
is
nothing to constrain them. You can look at that idea...that they could not
be different...in two different ways. That this is the only logically
self-consistent universe possible...which seems contradicted by what we
can devise in model universes....or that we happen to have these constants
by total chance. Interesting chances.
AS> "generic" would be excellent evidence that the universe was NOT
AS> planned. If a wide range of values might result in intelligent life,
AS> it would indeed be a strong indication that the universe, at heart,
AS> was chaotic. Was unplanned. But that's the thing. It isn't. You are
AS> at least partway through the ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE. You
AS> KNOW it isn't.
RH> I'm all the way thru by now and I DON'T know it isn't. I still don't
RH> know that the fundamental constants could have any other values.
RH> And even if they could, they don't, so it is a moot point.
How is that different from someone in the Dark Ages saying, "I don't see
how the sun could NOT rise in the morning, and even if it could do
differently, it doesn't, so it is a moot point"? I think the question is
still worth asking.
AS> Which is one reason Einstein HATED it. But at least you can
AS> statistically make predictions from it, no matter that we can't do on
AS> each individual wave/particle.
RH> Works with people, too. One man is hard to predict, but mob psychology
RH> is well established.
Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
AS> One needn't evoke a god to believe in miracles or the supernatural.
AS> Quite a few people do that.
RH> ?? How do you account for miracles without one?
Got me. But there are quite a few people out there, for instance, who
practice ceremonial magic without ascribing a particular diety to it. From
some New Age wizard wannabees to someone simply avoiding walking under a
ladder. The guy avoiding walking under the ladder isn't REALLY
thinking...even if he is religious as well...that God will punish him for
walking under the ladder. If he thought of it in that terms, he would see
the absurdity of it.
AS> speaking. So instead of a universe where the constants are just
AS> happening to be the values right for intelligent life, we have a
AS> universe which HAS to have the values. Now, you see we're back to it.
AS> What "constrains" the universe to HAVE to be that way?
RH> Al, the constants simply describe the way things are. "Why" is not
RH> a legitimate question in science. We only deal with "how".
Then how are these constants chosen rather than others we might imagine.
AS> We're right where philosophy and science meet. And I know it's
AS> frustrating to talk about. But I still feel it's a legitimate
AS> question.
RH> I don't mind the questioning, I object to the idea that you have the
RH> answer and on that you build a whole superstructure of religious BS.
Would you rather I believe the religious stuff without a logical starting
point?
AS> Not yet. Probably do that this upcoming holiday period. I'll be off
AS> from 19th through the 25th, and hope to do a lot on the web. Have a
AS> merry Christmas/Hannukkah/Yule/days off, whatever.
RH> All my days are "days off" and I LOVE it! The best to you and yours
RH> as well and please remember that our differences are not personal,
RH> no matter how abrasive I may seem at times.
I know that, Roger. You're one of the better people here. Take care.
... "Thence we came forth to see the stars again." -- Dante
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:15:08
EID:a9a3 219659e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc470
AS> Yes, we ARE down to basics here. As far as we can tell, there is
AS> nothing that determines why the constants adopt THIS value than
AS> another. Which---IF they seemed totally random, IF they seemed
AS> "generic" would be excellent evidence that the universe was NOT
AS> planned. If a wide range of values might result in intelligent life,
AS> it would indeed be a strong indication that the universe, at heart,
AS> was chaotic. Was unplanned. But that's the thing. It isn't. You are
AS> at least partway through the ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE. You
AS> KNOW it isn't.
MH> That brings the question I asked you earlier back to mind ... *why*
MH> does God hide himself in such esoterica, if it matters that we know
MH> he exists?
Because it merely seems esoteric because we are sufficiently far from the
bedrock of existence. The constants are seemingly made when the universe
was made, and part and parcel of it. That's like saying, what relevance
to
the 86th floor of the Empire State Building is the foundation of the
Empire State Building? The answer is: the whole structure would come
crashing down without it.
... He who dies with the most TAGLINES wins!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:30:58
EID:8251 21965bc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc471
GtP> It's amazing what can happen if a guy turns off the computer and
GtP> actually looks at a woman. I kid you not, I had the experience of
GtP> aggressively flirting with a man for several hours while he just kept
GtP> showing me what his computer could do. I wonder if some of the
GtP> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP> guidelines to getting girls.
Yes...and send them to Quentin. And is Dave Rice still a virgin?
Me, I lucked into finding my wife.
... "I'll protect you, fair maiden!" "Sorry, neither!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:59:12
EID:0e41 21968760
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc472
AS> I've learned long ago to take Sean's hyperbole and divide it by
AS> one-tenth, and you get close to his actual stand. Just like I don't
AS> take Fred Rice seriously with his "better educated" silliness.
SA> Fred, at least, can be rational at times.
I can agree with that.
SA> I've seen nothing but extremism from Sean, followed with his "just a
SA> joke" disclaimer, which appears to be very little more than a simple
SA> way of saying "don't flame me - I can't take it!"
Well, I've sometimes seen what I consider "normal" responses from
Sean...i.e., normal for everybody else. I used to get my feathers ruffled
about his "EVERY deathcultist needs to" ...but then I realized he didn't
mean
much of it.
AS> We are all burdens to each other. And there is no shame in that. I
AS> once took Sean somewhat to task for saying something similar about
AS> people with disabilities, and he acknowledged..discretely...that he
AS> was deliberately yanking the echo's chain.
SA>
SA> Again, I somehow doubt it. He just doesn't like being taken to task
SA> for what he says.
Very well might be.
AS> Some people I take seriously here and some I don't. I like Sean,
AS> but I used to get incensed at some of his statements...until I
AS> realized he wasn't serious about it.
SA> I think he's altogether TOO serious; based on his past performance,
SA> his consistency, and from what Becke has mentioned, I can't see any
SA> evidence at all that he does NOT mean what he says when he spouts
SA> his vitriol about peoples he seems to hold responsible for his own
SA> failings.
Well, certainly Becke had more personal experience with him than I have.
SA> If he IS joking, then he's as seriously split-personality - or more
SA> so - than Staal ever appeared to be, and should seek serious
SA> psychiatric help for a few decades.
Or maybe this outlet is what is needed to KEEP him from needing to do
so...a way to let loose his outrageousness.
AS> However, I think his talk about disability can be cruel to those
AS> who don't realize he's trolling. And I think his talking about his
AS> relationship and breakup with Becke was in poor taste, whether it was
AS> hyperbole or trolling or not. I like Becke; always have. And I would
AS> hate to have an ex-anything talk about my relationship with her on an
AS> echo. I think it in poor taste.
SA> And he seems to have done it to slough off his own shortcomings in
SA> that relationship and lay every bit of blame on her, to assauge his
SA> own precious ego. The "man" could not even afford the $100 or so it
SA> would have taken for him to visit, and expected Becke to pay the
SA> whole tab. And yet he complains about others being a "burden"; he
SA> doesn't seem to mind being one himself.
I know Becke has off and on been in hard financial positions herself,
also.
... A eunuch should not take pride in his chastity.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:46:15
EID:0152 21965dc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc473
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
JB> me know.
I see it, Judith. And I don't think I've noticed a particular gap in your
posts. You've been fairly regular.
... "Bother," said Pooh, as he reached for the reset button.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:49:56
EID:1c76 21965e20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc474
RC> YOU made the claim, Al. You pretend, because you think it bolsters
RC> your religious dogmatism, that you actually know that intelligent life
RC> of any sort whatsoever would be impossible unless things were very
RC> much as they exist here. In fact, however, you don't know that at all.
Then why, if the model universes we devise are random, do they not reflect
the larger probability, and most of them WOULD result in intelligent
observers evolving?
... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Holysmoke
|Date: 22 Dec 96 11:56:59
EID:1b1a 21965f00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc475
-=> Quoting Don Martin to All <=-
DM> John Jeanneault said "HOLYSMOKE" to All Christians, adding:
JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ> by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
DM> Has anyone here _ever_ seen a pearl from this bozo?
Nope.
But I answered him anyway.
... If you feel strongly about graffiti, sign a partition.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:35:20
EID:0d2b 21968c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc476
AS> even atheism holds self-contradictions.
RC>
RC> Oh? Name one.
Drawing inferences.
On which all reasoning is based.
All possible knowledge depends on the validity of reasoning. If the
feeling of certainty which we express by words like "must be" and
"therefore" and "since" is a real perception of how things outside our own
minds really "must" be, well and good. But if this certainty is merely a
feeling in our own minds and not a genuine insight into realities beyond
them--if it merely represents the way our minds happen to work--then we
have no knowledge. Unless human reasoning is valid no science can be true.
It follows that no overall account of the universe can be true unless
that account leaves it possible for our thinking to be a real insight. A
theory which explained everyting else in the whole universe but which made
it impossible to believe our thinking was valid, would be utterly out of
court. For that theory would itself have been reached by thinking, and if
thinking is not valid that theory would, of course, be itself demolished.
It would have destroyed its own credentials. It would be an argument which
proved that no argument was sound--a proof that there are no such things
as proofs--which is nonsense.
Thus a strict materialism refutes itself for the reason long ago given
by Professor Haldane. "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the
motion of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs
are true...and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be
composed of atoms."(POSSIBLE WORLDS, page 209).
And of course, any theory one advances to explain the validity of
inferences, and how it arose naturally, is itself, an inference. Which
places it under suspicion, also. If a proof that there are no proofs is
nonsensical, so is a proof that there are proofs. Reason is our starting
point. There can be no question either of attacking or defending it. If
by
treating it as a mere phenomenon you put yourself outside it, there is
then no way, except by begging the question, of getting inside again.
And of course, materlialism, Naturalism, and atheism are all inferences,
going far beyond experience to contemplate nature as a whole, something
we
cannot do by direct sense impression. So if one uses inference to prove
that inference is natural, you throw the whole towering speculation into
question.
The theist need not, or does not, grant those terms. He is not committed
to the view that reason is a comparatively recent developement moulded by
a process of selection that can select only for the biologically useful.
(I can go into more detail why such processes do not explain the
certainty, the feeling of truth about inferences.) For him, reason--the
reason of God--is older than Nature, and from it the orderliness of
Nature, which alone enables us to know her, is derived. For him, the human
mind in the act of knowing is illuminated by the Divine reason. It is set
free, in the degree required, from the huge nexus of non-rational
causation, free from this to be determined by the truth known. And the
preliminary processes within Nature which led up to this liberation
(evolution giving us larger brains, etc.) were designed to do so.
RC> I'm looking for material to amuse the members of Atheists of Florida
RC> (and to serve as the beginning of a series of "myths" about atheism).
RC>
RC> Your contribution would be much appreciated if you care to oblige.
Let it be my Christmas gift to you, Robert.
... Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. - James 1:19
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:19:35
EID:b5b6 21966260
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc477
AS> Indeed, why laws at all? Why isn't everything chaotic?
RC>
RC> Even in chaos, Al, there are patterns (and thus "laws"). I don't
RC> suppose you'd be interested in actually *learning* something
RC> unless you believe it will somehow support your apologetic cause,
RC> but just in case, I thought I'd mention this anyway.
And don't you find it odd that there is no real chaos in the old fashioned
sense of the word...patternless, totally at random? That everything is a
matter of patterns repeating themselves?
... I plan to live forever, or die trying.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Jesus needed...
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:23:29
EID:8382 219662e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc478
GtP>> It really doesn't matter. A male doesn't NEED a penis to urinate,
GtP>> ask any eunuch. Males creatures that don't need to get the sperm
GtP>> into the female don't have penises. My skin, my bones, my heretic
GtP>> heart are my authority, Gwenny
AS> Gwenny, I treasure my ignorance on castration but doesn't it consist
AS> of cutting off the TESTICLES? I thought there were even cases of eunuchs
AS> getting erections, albeit rarely. No problem with your main statement
AS> about how a penis is not necessary for urinating, at least in some
of the
AS> animal kingdom.
GtP> I was under the impression that harem eunuchs lost it all. I wonder
GtP> why. Well, then, how about sex change clients?? I know one and s/he
GtP> has no problem urinating that I have notice. (Inability to urinate
is
GtP> fatal last I heard.)
No question. Urination is possible for transsexuals without a penis. I was
just talking about eunuchs. (Are castrated men who program internet
providers eunuchs with Unix?)
... I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:28:12
EID:a805 21966380
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc479
RC>> Yet their logical possibility helps to define the probabilistic
RC>> sample space.
RC> *Possibilities* are what help to define a particular sample space.
AS> Robert. What is "their" referring to in the statement above?
RC>
RC> To some of your earlier confused ramblings, Al.
Okay, you are saying above the earlier confused ramblings' possibility
helps to define the probabilistic sample space?????
I don't think so.
RC> Are you really having so much difficulty distinguishing between, say,
RC> Russians and their winter hats? If I tell you that their hats are
RC> part of the collection of things people wear, will you then stupidly
RC> assert I said *Russians* are things that people wear? ROFL!
Then why are you asserting that about "confused ramblings" which, when you
put it together, make absolutely no sense?
... Death called while you were out, so I gave him your pager number.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: miscontextual quotes
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:32:41
EID:514c 21966400
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47a
AS>> Ah. Then you DO accept that Hawking said that in most cases, no
AS>> stars or galaxies would form, and "life would not exist"?
RC> Not on your mere say so, and you've already had the qualifications
RC> pointed out to you, which by ignoring you end up misrepresenting him.
AS> That's an interesting assertion.
RC>
RC> Not to mention an accurate one.
Indeed? Then supply us with the context. Simply saying it is accurate is
not enough. Appleton can do that much.
AS> Since that was quoted from the ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE
AS> rather exactly.
RC>
RC> If you merely quote without paying attention to the context, you will
RC> only turn into another Appletoon.
Then supply us with the context, Robert.
BTW...
Have you read THE ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE? Yes or no.
Have you read the original article by Hawking and Collins? Yes or no.
Have you had any private correspondence with Hawking or Collins where they
specifically said they overstated there? Yes or no.
DO let us know, Robert.
... To laugh well is to live well.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:01:25
EID:908c 21968820
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47b
AS> With all due respect to Jim, I would not trade posts with him.
JS> What's up here, Al, and what did I miss? And what did I do to deserve
JS> this?
AS> Deserve what? I merely said that I would not trade posts with you.
AS> You have your own way of posting and communicating, as do I. What I
AS> write
AS> suits me better...as what you write suits you better.
JS> Ahh...I see. I understood you to say you wouldn't post to me. Sorry...
Not at all, Jim. I will posts with you anytime. BTW, have a merry
Christmas, and I hope you, your wife, your kids and grandkids have a
wonderful holiday season.
... I only play with my computer on days that end in "Y."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:34:50
EID:0922 21966440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47c
AS> With all due respect to Jim, I would not trade posts with him.
JS> What's up here, Al, and what did I miss? And what did I do to deserve
JS> this?
AS> Deserve what? I merely said that I would not trade posts with you.
AS> You have your own way of posting and communicating, as do I. What I
AS> write suits me better...as what you write suits you better.
MH> I've got two fence posts and one mailbox post ... wanna trade? :-)
Yes indeed. Post haste.
... My opinion is uncluttered by facts.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: moronitude exemplified
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:01:57
EID:cf4b 21968820
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47d
RC> The kindly trot out the demonstration for most of these
RC> alternatives.
AS> Sure. Now consider the term, "neutronium". It consists of neutrons,
AS> as we know them in this universe, okay? It is very specific.
RC>
RC> You don't appear to be able to read what you're responding to. Check
RC> that question again, Al. That's what I asked. See it, up there?
Sure. So I'm glad you concede (by implication) that
neutronium-being-the-only-state-of-matter would result in no intelligent
life in most cases.
AS> The plasma intelligences need to be done on a case by case
AS> basis, depending on how the constants are varied.
RC>
RC> Which brings us right back to whether or not you could _demonstrate_
RC> that in "most" logically possible alternate universes, such
RC> intelligent life is IMPOSSIBLE.
RC>
RC> Can you do so?
RC> Yes or no, please.
On a case by case basis? Yes.
RC> I'm still waiting for a straight answer from you on this, Al.
It's rather like saying can you deomonstrate in a narrow range of
temperatures, liquid water can exist, as opposed to ice or steam. It
depends on how the temperature is varied. Similarly, the possibility or
impossibility of plasma intelligences would depend on how the constants
are varied.
... There IS intelligent life in the universe. It ignores us.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:45:47
EID:a748 219665a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47e
MM> I doubt it. H.G. Wells novella was published in 1898,
MM> decades before Orson Welles made his famous radio version
MM> on Oct-30-1938 and got the suckers running out of town.
I was indeed thinking of the book. I'm a book person.
BTW, Mimi, have a happy Hannukah/Christmas/Yule/holiday season/a few days
off, whatever. Enjoy it any way that is congenial to you. Reasonable
people like you are few and far between.
... Yes, I know I'm off-topic. Thank you for your concern.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: sample space
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:52:28
EID:133e 21966680
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47f
RC> It's no big deal to work with an infinite sample space.
AS> Did I say it was, above?
RC>
RC> No. Why are you so needlessly defensive?
It passes the time.
... Harass an agnostic! Burn a question mark in his yard!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:07:44
EID:92f9 219668e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc480
AS> Hmmm. And Lazarus also helped Him fake the Resurrection?
RH> Assisted By Joseph.
Well, it's a possibility.
AS> Now let me ask you something, Roger. Try to seriously imagine that
AS> Jesus sat down with Lazarus or whomever and plotted what was to
AS> happen. No matter what means Jesus had of cheating death, it entails
AS> being tried by the Romans, flogged, getting nails driven in his hands,
RH> Why else do you think he was sweating blood in the garden? The full
RH> reality of his situation was sinking in. The rest makes perfect sense
RH> for someone convinced that if he fulfilled the prophecies, God would
RH> intervene.
But that's the point.
If He faked it, He knows He didn't fulfill the prophecies. So God wouldn't
find favor in it.
IF He was NOT faking it, but hoping that God would rescue Him...why didn't
He die? It's not like Roman soldiery didn'thave lots of experience seeing
whether a man was dead or not...and making sure of same.
AS> and being put up to be crucified. To have His side pierced by a
RH> That was possibly unexpected (the spear).
Probably. He would have thought it more likely to have his legs broken,
as
happened to the two thieves.
AS> soldier's spear. If it was a con, Jesus would have had to have been
AS> the most courageous conman ever known.
RH> Not a con. He was perfectly sincere in his belief, however mistaken
RH> he was. He was willing to risk his life for his faith, surely nothing
RH> unusual even today.
Ok. Let's say He was expecting God to come rescue Him. He goes into a
deathlike coma. The others put on graveclothes on Him, and put Him in a
sealed tomb.
He wakes up. Comes out of His coma. He is in a sealed tomb, so probably
the air is getting rank, filled without all the fragrances with which they
put on his body (from the hundred pounds of stuff, it probably smelled
like a perfume factory.) He gropes around, IN THE DARK, and although a few
minutes ago so near death that people thought he WAS dead...and moves a
stone that is SEALED, and which two grown women of an era where a lot of
women did heavy manual labor were wondering how they could move.
Andrenelin? We're talking more SUPERMAN here.
And after that, with wounds in His feet, He walks the ten miles to
Emmaneus.
And when the disciples see Him, they don't go, "Good grief, you're
alive, but you look like death warmed over, sit down and I'll get a
doctor..." instead they all want to be like His "resurrected" self.
Do you believe it? I don't. I would much rather believe a Resurrection
than that bad combination of clumsy writing and unbelievable situations.
What might work MARGINALLY better if for JEsus to enter a deathlike
coma, but stir enough to clue Joseph He was still alive. So Joseph puts
Him in a special tomb which has a hidden passage that leads to Josephs's
home in Jerusalem....
And Joseph has doctors care for Jesus, and convinces Jesus that His
survival is a miracle.
That ALMOST works...unless you start to wonder why in the world Joseph
had a tomb with a hidden passage. It's like all those bad movies where
every castle or old house had a secret passage. It would have to be dug
ahead of time....
See what I mean how alternative explanations violate what we DO know
about human nature and situations, whereas we have no way to evaluate the
probability of a Resurrection?
... All the world's a stage, and most of us are desperately unrehearsed.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:11:34
EID:96da 21966960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc481
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
JB> Nope, with no other changes, you couldn't do it as an atheist.
Could be.
... Excuse me, I gotta go kill a Care Bear.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:13:49
EID:37b9 219669a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc482
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now
AS> all of the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This
AS> should be very interesting.
DW> Neither Fredric nor I were overly "nice" to Mike in the above
DW> passages.
No, I'll give you that.
DW> He has, though, allied (however tentatively) himself with the Armies
DW> of Light (that would be us) and against the Armies of Darkness,
DW> Irrationality, Fear, and Superstition (that would be you and your
DW> brethren). It is generally a good rule of thumb to treat you allies
DW> differently than you treat your targets.
Granted, for you, anyway. I just find it somewhat ironic, considering some
of the words that have been bandied back and forth here in the past.
... DAY,n, a period of24 hours, mostly misspent.--DEVILS DICTIONARY(Bierce
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: well, well
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:31:56
EID:bbf2 21966be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc483
AS> But not linearly. It was by no means an unbroken tradition, but
AS> rather one with many starts and stops, until the time of the
AS> Rennaissance.
RC>
RC> Now this is going to be a real treat! Go ahead, Al; lecture me on the
RC> history of mathematics. Oh, and define "unbroken tradition," please.
No need. You know as well as I do, in Western Europe, mathematical thought
nearly stopped during the Dark Ages, and was only kept alive in Arabic
lands....
RC> There were never any holy wars over mathematics, no. Is that bad?
AS> No. And never said it was.
RC>
RC> So how about the holy wars over Christianity?
RC> Did they affect (as you say) the man on the street?
Yes indeed.
RC> If it's a choice between the way Christians spread their worldviews
RC> and the way mathematicians do, guess which I'd prefer.
As is your right.
... If a tree falls on a mime, does anyone care?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: what if we just guess
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:34:13
EID:7c89 21966c40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc484
AS> To a certain extent. I think all religions might have clues
AS> to the Transcendent and Infinite, if the transcendent impulse
AS> does reflect something real. (Please note the "if" qualifier.)
RC>
RC> How could I miss it? Your apologetic posts are peppered with _IF_s.
They are indeed.
AS> And of course, I acknowledge that we might ALL be wrong...and we
AS> might all be wrong about a transcendent Being, also.
RC>
RC> Definitely a risk when believing in old superstitions.
Or new truths. Only a fanatic is sure without doubt.
RC> I suppose I shall have to make do with being "depraved" instead.
AS> Have I EVER called you "depraved", Robert?
RC>
RC> I don't know; have you?
No.
AS> I suspect if we met face to face, we'd get along reasonably well.
RC>
RC> Ask Fred Rice and Steve Quarrella about the 1998 HolySmoke Convention.
Of course, it will help if I introduce myself under the name of "Hector
Plasmic"...
... What if there were no hypothetical questions?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Can't do constants
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:39:25
EID:da10 21966ce0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc485
LB> Choosing not to take 3 minutes to adjust your own reader is, of course
LB> YOUR privilege, but it's both more polite AND faster than typing out
a
LB> message like the above getting snooty about people getting frustrated
LB> over the frequency with which your messages are unreadable.
You may have remarked a tendency for me to now split up some of my longer
messages.
... A life? From what board can I down load that?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:55
EID:5ae1 21968880
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc486
LB> Al, unless the VICTIM is going to be damaged by the experience for
LB> eternity (and there's a question for you - will i and all the others
LB> still have nightmares in heaven?) there is no purpose to the victimizer
LB> being punished for all eternity. Hell later, and nothing DURING the
LB> victimization does no good. The abuse affects MY choices, presumably
LB> affects MY "salvation". God getting around to dealing with it after
in
LB> no longer matters is pointless.
But of course, it depends on whether Hell is just a matter of the
extinction of the soul, a metaphor for nonexstence, or not.
AS> from above, even when we impose our will on another. For humanity
AS> collectively must learn how to handle free will, and correct
AS> ourselves, as much as an individual must. If it doesn't satisfy
AS> you--and there are times, I'm sure, when it wouldn't satisfy me, say
AS> when I was riding the train to Auchswitz--then it doesn't. But it
AS> works for me.
LB> Of course...it works if you're telling it to someone else...that it
LB> does NOT work for those living within the context of Cepp'as question
LB> ought to tell you something.
If you think I have had no hardship in my life, then perhaps you don't
know enough.
... Death is life's way of telling you you've been fired.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:45:00
EID:5b1e 21966da0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc487
LB> ROTFL!!!!!
Boy, THAT's a big help...
Anyway, Lynda, have a nice holiday season, and Merry Christmas. Both you,
George, and the kids.
... Yes, I know I'm off-topic. Thank you for your concern.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:45:55
EID:d270 21966da0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc488
AS> But reincarnation doesn't work unless you can remember previous
AS> lessons....or lives, in this case.
LB> Why? I don't recall learning how to walk or talk, or how to control
my
LB> bladder ...yet the lesson stays with me.
Good point.
... A little experience often upsets a lot of theory.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:50:31
EID:58df 21966e40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32bdc489
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
Odd. You're the only one who seems to have drawn that conclusion,
including Mike himself.
LB> Guess, THAT sort of statement is as standard as "why are you so
LB> bitter".
Not at all. I'm overjoyed that Marilyn, for instance, is speaking to him
again.
... The greatest remedy for anger is delay.--Seneca.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:00
EID:5d10 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c30
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Gwenny the Pooh
JS> (BTW, hav[ing] been married more times than I does not give
JS> you more experience than I. I was speaking about my having
JS> experience with a _successful_ marriage.)
And you define success by how much of your wife's money you waste?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:01
EID:08a2 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c31
TID: GE/2 1.2
JS> Fred and Herr Doktor both count for zero in my mind
As zero seems to be the maximum capacity of what passes for your
mind, this is unsuprising.
I'll leave it up to them to decide if they should be dismayed
because you do not rate them as highly as your prostitute-fucking
preacher-hero, Jimmy Swaggart.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:02
EID:2ccc 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c32
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Nothing you say or do will make any difference to Brother Jesse.
SQ> Oh, I know. Remember, he's alluding to me when he talks about
SQ> "demonic pacts." I'm pretty flattered to think that he thinks
SQ> I work for his "Satan" deity.
I don't think he's singling out anyone in particular with the remark
about demonic pacts. My impression is that Brother Jesse means
something which would apply (in his opinion) to our modern society
more or less as a whole.
SQ> I enjoy being the recipient of his "Christian fellowship."
Well, you do inspire a lot of hostility from him, to say the least.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:03
EID:581b 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c33
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> You don't think the universe as a whole is electrically neutral?
I wonder how you would propose to actually measure any net electrical
charge for the entire cosmos, Al.
AS> To balance out exactly? But then we just have the same
AS> coincidence in slightly different guise. It still is the
AS> balancing out that is remarkable.
On the contrary, a state of equilibrium is quite natural.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Al's bluster
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:04
EID:2687 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c34
TID: GE/2 1.2
CJ> He quoted very extensively from you, the original.
AS> Curtis. I WROTE the original. And you may have noticed a tendency
AS> of me to make LOOONG posts. I know what I wrote and what was
AS> quoted. Now, you may believe what you want...but a simple question
AS> to Curry would have answered whether he quoted my every word.
Is it just that I'm paying more attention to Al's bluster lately, or
has there been an actual increase in the number of strawmen he creates?
Obviously, you did not claim I quoted his "every word."
AS> He didn't.
Though I could, what would be the point? Your remark that I quoted
extensively is correct, btw.
If you would like to see the junk email Al sent, just let me know.
AS> Unless you claim to know differently? In which case, I still
AS> have the original...
What an astonishing coincidence! So do I. Filed under "Junk mail."
AS> which might be better evidence than the crystal ball or
AS> Psychic Friends Network you are evidently consulting.
Or rather, that the strawman of Al's dishonestly deceptive creation
evidently consults -- at Al's behest. Then you get assigned blame
for what our Babbling Bullshitter simply made up himself.
CJ> I don't think I've had any misconceptions about you.
But I certainly have:
I once thought that Al could be trusted to be reasonable and also
to refrain from making up strawman positions for those people
with whom he has disagreements.
My assumptions on that matter were clearly incorrect.
The evidence has become crystal clear over the last month or two,
as you have no doubt noticed yourself.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:05
EID:78b3 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c35
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Curtis Johnson
Al. You are making a number of false assumptions and mistakes in your
petty little argument with Curtis. I will identify some for you:
AS>>> REALLY, Curtis. If I had told Curry it would be fine to
AS>>> reprint my email publicly, whatever you might think of me,
AS>>> do you think CURRY would be so dim as to not repost that
AS>>> bit showing everybody I gave my permission?
Consider. Even if you had "given permission" before I posted your
junk email, I would still consider it utterly irrelevant. Since
your permission is neither legally required, nor ethically required,
I consider its existence or nonexistence _insignificant_.
Nothing you said would affect my standard policy towards junk email.
CJ> "Then he told me he was going to post...not asked,
CJ> said...and said he wasn't going to continue to email. I sent ONE
CJ> response back, saying, in essence, fine."
AS> Now, LOOK AT THE ABOVE!!! Did I say it was okay for him to post
AS> my emails in the echo???
Let's see, shall we?
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------
: From: al.schroeder@nashville.com
: Reply-To: al.schroeder@nashville.com
: Subject: your babbling logical fal
: To: CURRY@GTE.NET
: Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 03:05:00
:
: Cu> Replies to your excessively babbling examples of logical fallacies
: Cu> have been posted to HOLYSMOKE, where they belong.
:
: Good. So have mine. Where you will be caught in a contradiction of your
: own words.
:
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you now trying to say that you seriously expected that my replies
would not quote extensively from your emailed bullshit, Al?
AS> I did say it was okay to post in the echo.
So explain why are you whining so much about my doing EXACTLY THAT.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: violent Buddhists
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:06
EID:3984 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c36
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Leonard Bernier
LB> In a world of noise, confusion, and relentless pressures,
LB> people long for peace.
RS> Then why are you advocating the Christian God -- responsible for
RS> centuries of wars -- and not, say, Buddha?
RS> Rod "...when was the last time you heard of Buddhists taking up
RS> arms?" Swift :)
I take it you don't follow the news from Sri Lanka.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:07
EID:462b 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c37
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Al Schroeder
CJ> "Then he told me he was going to post...not asked,
CJ> said...and said he wasn't going to continue to email. I sent ONE
CJ> response back, saying, in essence, fine."
Actually, he sent THREE responses back, so even there Al is suffering
from a defect in memory, or else a defect in honesty.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Virgin Mary
|Date: 22 Dec 96 04:21:08
EID:f611 219622a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0dee3c38
TID: GE/2 1.2
Re: the "Virgin Mary apparition" in nearby Clearwater, Florida.
I was mistaken when I told you that the president of Tampa Bay Skeptics
checked out this office building himself. It was another member who
did so. The president of the group related some of the findings to me
in conversation at a Winter Solstice party, though.
Summarizing:
There is a carwash located next door, which has been operating there
for a number of years. All around the office building upon which
the "apparition" is said to have suddenly appeared, there are many
other similar stains located wherever hedges or palm trees brush
against the side of the glass. The stain in question did not appear
recently at all, but has been there since at least 1994, as evidenced
by a *St. Petersburg Times* photo from that time.
The 1994 photo shows a palm tree partly obscuring the stain. The tree
was removed a few months ago, but on the opposite side of the building
there is another palm tree and another "apparition" partly obscured
behind it.
You may draw your own conclusions. If there are any questions, I will
be pleased to answer them as best I can.
Perhaps when I visit the scene, I'll sing a verse or two of
"How much is that virgin in the window?"
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Why don't we see God?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:32:50
EID:6e4e 2195b400
MSGID: 1:207/212 ae67d2e3
On (17 Dec 96) Lee Woofenden wrote to Martin Goldberg...
LW> Is doing contradictory things part of perfection? Why would a perfect
LW> God tear down with one hand what s/he built with another?
Why *did* he do it? You believe he did, if you believe the flood story
in Genesis. He built something, then tore it down. After HE blew it.
... "'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Dr. Seuss Purity Test
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:33:01
EID:c5f9 2195b420
MSGID: 1:207/212 c233116c
On (17 Dec 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> I was born without either, do I count?
JB> You were born with (and use) a brain. That counts for more than
JB> several hundred gonads.
:)
... a network of _felines_ is a catalyst.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: I didn't get this
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:33:10
EID:b108 2195b420
MSGID: 1:207/212 84e4863e
On (18 Dec 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Fredric Rice...
JB> It looks like the child submitted. But I've seen a picture of the
JB> teacher AND one of the child. The child is small, not undernourished
JB> or anything, but a tiny little thing. The teacher is one hell of a BIG
JB> woman. I can see the child being too scared to do anything else. And
JB> you have to remember that this kid is still at the age when they will
JB> do just about anything to
JB> please the adults in their lives, to keep them from being 'mad'.
You've got it exactly correct.
I'm 4'9 and teach children the same age [in case you haven't read any
messages where I state it, I teach a combination kindergarten/first
grade class]. I'm *tiny* [though not really thin]. I could overpower one
of these little guys pretty quickly if I used force. I wouldn't, of
course.
I can understand the teacher's frustration but not the actions. All
teachers have come across situations which have angered them.
...
"One is a genius, the other insane!"
- Animaniacs
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:33:36
EID:d178 2195b420
MSGID: 1:207/212 71ab2574
On (17 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Curtis Johnson...
JS> Yeah, but being a _man_ a penis is a good indication of gender,
JS> whether you choose to have sex or not.
But gender should be irrelevant to god both in his "original" form and
in the form of the savior, wouldn't it?
... An ignorant person is constantly surprised.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:34:13
EID:fc11 2195b440
MSGID: 1:207/212 8a7ad38a
On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to DAVID RICE...
DR> correct: the male is a modification of the female of the
DR> species. During gestation, every fetus starts out female.
DR> If there is enough testosterone (and other) hormones, the
DR> fetus then turns male: if not, it remains female. This may
DR> be a feature of pre-human pathenogenisis. The male form is
DR> an evolutionary appendum to increase genetic variability
DR> through recombination via sexual reproduction: it wasn't
DR> always that way.
JS> If one is inclined to believe in the theory of evolution. I believe
JS> in the 'big bang' myself.
Naturally, you're free to believe as you wish regarding ultimate
origins. However, it is clear from embryology that the female is the
basic model. The default is female. I know this from first hand
experience.
...
Like a tagline [hey!] Stolen for the very first time
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:34:19
EID:f7ba 2195b440
MSGID: 1:207/212 d11b0e61
On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Sue Alexander...
SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait a
SA> minute....
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
I don't consider myself to be doing something readily out of simple
obedience.
... And don't start a sentence with a conjunction, either.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 21 Dec 96 22:34:27
EID:3f43 2195b440
MSGID: 1:207/212 44f9586f
On (18 Dec 96) Brett Johnson wrote to Ronald Vass...
BJ> All of which obviously happened. Else, the witnesses would not have
BJ> died for their convictions.
Martyrdom is proof of the events the martyr believes in? Then Joseph
Smith and the Mormons are right, as are many other religions.
BJ> And at the same time we only have the words of others (And without
BJ> nearly as much guarantee of their accuracy) of other historical events
BJ> and persons. Do you as vehemently attack these as absolutly
BJ> unreliable? Or is your hostility and criticism that conveinient?
There is no reliable confirmation of the Bible. If you have some, you'll
shock the entire world. There may well be spot confirmations of small
things, but the innacuracies are greater than those - and each mythology
is built on enough of a factual basis that this could be said about any
of them. Troy exists - so Greek mythology must be true. There is some
overlap between Irish and Welsh mythology - that means they must be
true, correct?
BJ> It is one thing to die for what one supposes is true. It's another
to
BJ> die for your own lie, willingly...when mere submission would have let
BJ> you out of it.
There's another possibility - being duped.
BJ> Though I don't doubt he was baptized, I also know he was involved in
BJ> the occult. Part of his hatred of Jews, was because he felt they were
BJ> the
BJ> ultimate source of Christianity and it's value system, which he so
BJ> hated.
Nope.
BJ> Open up your heart then. I'm not asking you to be guilible, or
BJ> anti-intellectual. These are not admirable traits in any sense. I
do
BJ> ask though that you not reply to me as if I'm an enemy.
You'd *have* to be gullible to be a Christian.
... Watch the short jokes or I'll bite you on the ankle!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:43:11
EID:5b41 21965560
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e1aa3a7
TID: GE/2 1.2
DC> It really is a shame that Esperanto didn't make it.
Mi ne komprenas. Kion deziras vi de la lingvo?
DC> Then again, the most spoken language today is English, or at
DC> least a form of it.
Incorrect. There are more speakers of Mandarin Chinese than there
are of English.
DC> It may eventually become the universal language.
Ridiculous but common American arrogance.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: not believing
|Date: 22 Dec 96 10:43:12
EID:aeb9 21965560
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e1aa3a8
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Shelby Sherman
SS>> How is _not_ believing a form of belief?
AM> I haven't figured that part out yet.
SS> Well, let me help you out then. It's NOT. It's like saying
SS> that bald is a hair color or that _not_ drinking is a degree
SS> of alcoholism.
JB> ......Is "zero" a "number?"
Sure, but it's neither positive nor negative.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: All
|Sub: Losing Faith in Faith
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:37:01
EID:d432 21966ca0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e47223d
TID: GE/2 1.2
I've been enjoying Dan Barker's book, LOSING FAITH IN FAITH, since it
was brought to my attention recently by Michael Hardy's mention here
that he is reading it.
It contains an interesting combination of autobiographical stories
(the subtitle is "From Preacher to Atheist"), critical articles which
have appeared in *Freethought Today*, and fascinating essays on the
transition from religious believer to freethinker from the perspective
of having traveled that road both intellectually and emotionally
after having been deeply committed to Christian dogmatism for years.
Several of the chapters remind me very much of certain issues, and
sometimes of certain individuals seen here in HolySmoke.
For example, Chapter 34 -- entitled *Blind Faith* -- is a dialogue which
creatively and effectively summarizes many of the discussions one may
find here from time to time.
I was also reminded of Brother Jesse's belief that if he did not have
his faith in the existence of a god, then he would have to be terribly
selfish (or perhaps worse). Chapter 32 begins as follows:
"Dan, if I were an atheist like you, you would be dead," said
a sixty-year-old Christian professor towards the end of an informal
but grueling five-hour debate I was having with five fundamentalists
in a San Dimas living room.
"Why would I be dead?" I asked, in a voice which was getting hoarse.
"Because I would kill you," he replied with a smiling gaze.
"Why would you kill me?" I asked, astounded.
"Because if it were not for the moral restraints of the Bible, I
would be a wild animal, stealing, raping and murdering," he
explained, his wife and daughter listening. "You had better thank
Jesus for his love and protection." I was stunned to hear such
talk from such a nice looking person.
"If you wish to be a murderous criminal," I said slowly, "you will
soon find that it is not in your best self interest. There are many
people like myself who respect life enough to protect ourselves
from people like you. We have laws -- and we have other methods
of self defense."
I hope his threats were truly rhetorical. They do show how
aggressively Christians tackle the question of morality, and how
godlessness is still equated with evil.
Sound familiar, anyone?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: beastly trivia
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:57:02
EID:4324 21967f20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e47223e
TID: GE/2 1.2
MB> ... 001010011010 - BIN of the beast.
radix number number
===== ========== ==========
two 1010011010 1001101000 Binary of the Beast
three 220200 211211
four 22122 21220
five 10131 4431
six 3030 2504
seven 1641 1540
eight 1232 1150 Octal of the Beast
nine 820 754
ten 666 616
eleven 556 510
twelve 476 434 Duodecimal of the Beast
sixteen 29A 268 Hexadecimal of the Beast
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Untimate source of facts
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:57:03
EID:ab10 21967f20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e47223f
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Al Schroeder
LA>> Population Statistics demand a young earth
AS> (Pounding floor.) Any particular reason why?
LA> Don't waste time "pounding the floor", just do your sums!
LA> We have reasonable date for the rate of human population
LA> expansion taken over the last 2,000 years. Don't you have
LA> any idea of what these are?
By all means, Moron, show us the math.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: truth
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:57:04
EID:b9e3 21967f20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e472240
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: David Worrell
DW> First the Christians give us "True Christians/False Christian Scum."
DW> Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
DW> What's next?
MH> You only ask that because you're False Worrell Scum.
We must apply the Washcloth of Truth to the dirt smudge which
the False Worrell Scum tries to pass off as a beard.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:57:05
EID:16a1 21967f20
MSGID: 1:3603/210 0e472241
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Steve Quarrella
JJ>> But you will have to excuse me, please, if I do not get
JJ>> misty-eyed hearing your story about giving away a bottle of pop.
SQ> It was a can. Can't you read? The gentleman to whom I gave the
SQ> _can_ was misty-eyed. I did what I did for his gratification,
SQ> not yours. You, well, you can shove the can up your ass, like I
SQ> suggested you do.
JJ> Not only is it manifest that *most* of the atheists in this
JJ> hell hole do not have a clue about doing good, your post aptly
JJ> reveals the underlying hatefulness that drives you here.
And what -- besides hatefulness -- drives your above remarks, Jesse?
Such a prejudiced, bigoted and spiteful attitude as that which you
are displaying here reveals your self-righteous hypocrisy.
JJ> I am praying for your soul, Stevie.
Maybe you would do better to pray for your own.
I notice you have made no response to my pointing out specifically
where you erred in believing that you possess evidence that atheists
"for the most part" do not do good and ethical things.
Is that because you failed to receive my post, or because you are
too caught up in your mutual hate-fest with Quarrella?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:46:57
EID:e3e3 21967dc0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32bd5827
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 c0f04567
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
17 Dec 96 18:28, quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg:
JS> ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - Acts 9:5
I'm familiar with this sorid tale. A biblical parody of forced
communism at its best. The essence of this pathetic story is that
you sell your possessions and lay it at the feet of the apostles to
be redistributed to all. If you hold back any of the proceeds, the
holy spirit will smite your ass dead.
What a crock. I'm sure that a lot of smarmy preachers use these verses
to fleece their gullible flock.
Here are all the verses, in context. Take note of the last verse.
Fear is the vehicle that perpetuates religious stupidity.
AC 4:31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God
boldly.
AC 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed
that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they
had. [33] With great power the apostles continued to testify to the
resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. [34] There
were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned
lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales [35] and put
it
at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.
AC 4:36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas
(which means Son of Encouragement), [37] sold a field he owned and brought
the money and put it at the apostles' feet.
AC 5:1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold
a
piece of property. [2] With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part
of
the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles'
feet.
AC 5:3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled
your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself
some of the money you received for the land? [4] Didn't it belong to you
before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your
disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to
men but to God."
AC 5:5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear
seized all who heard what had happened. [6] Then the young men came forward,
wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
AC 5:7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had
happened. [8] Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias
got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."
AC 5:9 Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the
Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door,
and
they will carry you out also."
AC 5:10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the
young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her
beside her husband. [11] Great fear seized the whole church and all who
heard about these events.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:53:25
EID:9ea9 21967ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32bd5987
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 dc6e44d0
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
17 Dec 96 18:29, quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg:
JS> You are wrong on both counts. I see evidence of God every single day
JS> and I have given it much thought.
No you don't.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: fear
|Date: 22 Dec 96 15:54:00
EID:a603 21967ec0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0048e094
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
I noticed on the stbbs webpage that you have a copy of Susan Crain's "feargod"
text file. I've lost the copy I had. I know that atheists, for the most
part, do not do good things, but do you think you might could make an exception
and send me that file?
Either here, netmail, or at azirafel@concentric.net
Thanks. I'll name my firstborn after you.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:00:28
EID:1f16 21964800
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a549e112
REPLY: 1:3603/210 0cf4c6e7
On (18 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to Jesse Jones...
RC> On (16 Dec 96) Jesse Jones wrote to Dan Ceppa...
JJ> Can you prove to me that evidence is required for God to exist?
JJ> For anyone or anything else to exist?
RC> Santa Claus, for instance.
Strange, I asked him just about the same thing...
RC> The question is whether or not you have any evidence that Santa,
RC> excuse me . . . that your god Yahweh exists except in the form
RC> of mythology, metaphor, or make believe.
RC> I wonder if you might someday answer that question, Brother Jesse.
Well, he's on a role. I think he actually answer one of your
questions this year. Is it too much to hope for two answers
from him in the same 12 month period?
... To quote God Dan, you may now "decease and desist."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: I got my Xmas wish! [1]
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:11:32
EID:5c73 21964960
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4df77e07
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2bc27851
On (21 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to ALL...
jj> I think we can if we spread the word through whatever
jj> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the
jj> "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year.
RS> LOL again . . .
Does that mean we are the Great Satan and John is the
Ayotollah?
jj> it. WE CAN DO IT! Let the only messages we post here promote
jj> this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or
jj> his teachings....
RS> Then you're admitting that they're bogus? Thank you.
It's just another example of one of Hector's Laws coming into
play. After all, they can't afford to debate what doesn't exist.
... It's a pillow, it's a pillow! - Dan Ceppa
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:24:01
EID:9a31 21964b00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 5abf16b4
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 c74708b1
On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander...
SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait a
SA> minute....
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
... Don't let your mind wander, as it's too liitle to go out on it's own
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: murder 4 billion
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:30:04
EID:37a8 21964bc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 fa8eb520
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 949bb759
On (17 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Curtis Johnson...
CJ> Latest Ken Wiens on R-RELIGION: he accepts many reports of
CJ> encounters with the gleeps, but thinks the gleeps are demons.
CJ> Why didn't Jim Staal think of that?
JS> Hmmmm...why _didn't_ I think of that! :)
Jim, just how long have you had that urge to get a job
as a target in a shooting gallery? You'd be perfect,
even for novices.
... Why, oh why, Lord, did you create stupid people too?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Ultimate Source of Facts (e).
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:47:18
EID:e2e9 21964de0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 1b5900bf
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86593558
On (22 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Al Schroeder...
AS> Um. How could direct observation confirm anything
AS> about the age of the object if it's so close?
LA> Does that mean you are trying to call an evolutionary
LA> astronomer a FOOL then?
How hard have you worked to get as stupid as you are, Laurie?
You make the 3 Stooges look like Einsteins.
NOw, please explain how astronomy is part of evolution. It
should be interesting, coming from you.
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 22 Dec 96 23:56:00
EID:f846 2196bf00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 00cc2b03
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 a549e112
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Robert Curry you wrote:
RC>> I wonder if you might someday answer that question,
RC>> Brother Jesse.
DC> Well, he's on a role.
What role would that be? Cotton Mather?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: ,
|Date: 23 Dec 96 01:38:00
EID:b5c7 21970cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 012a12b8
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2bc8f160
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
Tina Doak wrote in a message to Steve Hayes:
TD>> I am a Baptist what gives????
At least she isn't a stealth baptist. I seem to have nothing to worry about.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 23 Dec 96 01:40:00
EID:c01b 21970d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 012b8e5f
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15b27072
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Glen Todd you wrote:
GT>> shows that it _IS_ a direct and blatant violation of the
GT>> Constitution and a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics
GT>> and honour that True Folk would do well to shun.
JJ> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4%
JJ> atheists in the U.S.?
Glen is one of those goofy pagans, Jesse. Get your shit together, ok?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Styx Allum
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: general stats
|Date: 21 Dec 96 13:52:03
EID:e083 21956e80
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b20d991c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 01bf0361
> JackStat v2.98b5 (c)1993/95 by Paolo Polce (2:335/232)
> These stats have been issued on 14 Dec 96,
> reading 3997 messages
> upto 14 Dec 96.
Hey, thanks Dave! Those stats are great!
Any chance of setting it up to automatically post
a monthly summary on the first or last day of each month?
---
* Origin: Out in the Styx - Eugene OR USR 28.8 (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Styx Allum
|To: All
|Sub: Conference Guidelines
|Date: 21 Dec 96 13:54:04
EID:0724 21956ec0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b20d991d
Re: HOLYSMOKE Echo Guidelines
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in this echo are those of the writers
identified in the header of each message. No other responsibility
is expressed or implied for the content of the messages in this echo.
Rules to Follow:
[1] Please refrain from attempting to force your ideas on others,
or to be deliberately disruptive in the echo.
Those who engage in such activity may find their feed to this
echo terminated.
[2] As is customary in echomail, private messages are not allowed.
[3] If you wish to post messages on this echo please try to keep
your comments and ideas on a rational level. This will help
to facilitate an open and free flowing dialogue.
Please refrain from entering statements like:
"I know I'm right and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid!"
or
"You're gonna burn in hell if you don't accept god."
Such messages only serve to irritate others, and do little
more than to raise the noise level of the echo.
[4] Attempt to quote only relevant text, in order to make your
messages more legible, and to lessen the burden on those
who pay to move each byte posted in this conference.
[5] Deliberate censorship of wording contained within a quote
attributed to another in this echo is expressly forbidden.
Echo Purpose: (To let you hear what you just said) ;-)
This echo provides an open forum where one can argue for or against
religion(s). Both religious and anti-religious views are allowed.
Atheists, agnostics, religious right-wingers, bible babblers,
bible bashers, preachers of doom, echovangelists, conservatives,
liberals and those with (hopefully curable) crucifixation are welcome
in HOLYSMOKE. (As long as they abide by the guidelines above!)
Enjoy and happy debating!
Styx Allum, Moderator (1:152/20)
P.O. Box 5150
Eugene, OR 97405-0150
internet: styx@rio.com
#HolySmoke, /server irc.another.net 7000
---
* Origin: Out in the Styx - Eugene OR USR 28.8 (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Styx Allum
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:20:05
EID:8416 21957280
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b20d991e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32b08dbe
> You can probably find LOTS of information about Lon Mabon from
> searching on the net for "Oregon Citizen's Alliance".
> He headed it up, and pushed for state citizen-initiated-referenda
> with anti-gay amendments or laws.
> Rod "...basically, a nasty Christian cretin" Swift
> * SLMR 2.1 * Progress is not created by contented people.
> --- Maximus 2.02
> * Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111
> (3:690/660)
YIKES! This is indeed scarey.
The thought that a crazed lunatic from here in my own community
can make news around the globe... sheesh. I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
So's that Lon Mabon critter.
Here's something to ponder... I've seen Lon Mabon, and my first
impression was that he's gay. I really suspect that to be true,
whether factual or not. Gotta admire the irony, if so.
And what better way for him to cast away suspicion than to preach
against those like himself? Just like preachers condemning
hookers... only to be found later with their pants down in the
company of said heathens. Gotta like that.
---
* Origin: Out in the Styx - Eugene OR USR 28.8 (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Styx Allum
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: new feed
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:42:06
EID:1596 21957540
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b20d991f
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32b3c564
> SA> No prob. Thanks for helping out on undernet, as well.
> SA> -Styx
> Thanks, Styx. I was wondering what server all you peoples were
> on :)
try /server irc.another.net 7000
then /join #holysmoke
Keep in mind that you're in a vastly different timezone than the
majority of participants in #holysmoke. You might need to keep
some strange hours to converse with us equally strange people.
Heh.
---
* Origin: Out in the Styx - Eugene OR USR 28.8 (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Styx Allum
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: death
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:44:07
EID:1ba4 21957580
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b20d9920
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 023c66a0
> Carl Sagan died early this morning.
> Jesse Jones (and a host of other bloodsucking lawyers) is still
> alive.
> There obviously is no God.
Wooooooooooo. Ouch.
This definitely belongs in Fredric's list of quotes.
---
* Origin: Out in the Styx - Eugene OR USR 28.8 (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 22 Dec 96 14:30:25
EID:eea1 219673c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32bd467c
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32b094b2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Andrew Masten!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Andrew Masten
whisper furtively to Don Martin something about "flat earth" town:
AM> No, if people lived by God's golden rule of loving others as you love
AM> yourself, nobody would be starving. But God has not infringed upon our
AM> choice to do His will or our will. And we reap the results of the
AM> choices we make.
And if our will and our lives happen to lie along another path than that
of the Semite god Jehovah?
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Even the most faithful believer can serve a false god.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The call of the Horn is ringing from the hill (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Christian Adultery
|Date: 22 Dec 96 14:34:06
EID:1ab1 21967440
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32bd46f5
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32B0B33A
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Ronald Vass!
Thursday December 12 1996 20:20, Ronald Vass wrote to Dan Ceppa:
RV> From what we see here, those who profess the Christian Faith
RV> lie ... all/most of the time. No ?
Yes.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... NEWS FLASH: Taglines discovered in Dead Sea Scrolls!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:49:03
EID:414a 21964e20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd0472
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Roger!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Roger say to Al:
AS>> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS>> friends and influence people around here...
RH> At the very least, it would cut down on the repetitious BS you
RH> post here. Wiccans do not seek converts or argue their own
RH> personal beliefs. That's why they get less flak.
Sure, as long as we don't manifest any deity belief.
RH> Except from me, once in awhile, just to keep things balanced.
And JJ but every side has to have it's. . .um, less desirables.
RH> Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
Just goes to show that you haven't met me yet.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if your belt buckle is heavier than 4 lbs.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Darkness
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:52:29
EID:4985 21964e80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd057d
REPLY: 1:221/203 0afbdf3a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brett!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Brett say to Gwenny:
GT>> Yes, whether Jeshua was the Christos that the prophesies seem to hint
GT>> at or not, is open to debate. It is unfortunate that, if he existed,
GT>> he didn't l writings of his own.
BJ> In a way, I think he left a more powerful testimony, in the martyrdom
of
BJ> all minus one (St.John) of His Apostles. They were obviously pretty
BJ> convinced of the truth, to suffer and die for it as they did.
First, I would like to see evidence of this. I seem to remember that most
of them were martyred by the Romans. You'd like that if there were any
records (and the Romans were one of the most anal-retentive empire ever),
that the Holy Roman Church would have let us seen them before now. And
what DID happen to St. "what does it matter if he tarries until I return"
John.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Cats took many thousands of years to domesticate humans.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:29:08
EID:060d 219683a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd7cca
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 6cc11761
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Gwenny:
SM>>> I have yet to experience ANY evidence that marriage is anything else
SM>>> but another name for oppression and chattel ownership -- EVER.
JS>> We disagree...and I do have a bit more experience in this. :)
Gt>> And I have even more experience and I agree with him. So there!
JS> Oh, you do, do you? And yet you claim to be married? (BTW, have been
JS> married more times than I does not give you more experience than I.
What you must FIRST realize is that he is talking about CHRISTIAN marriage.
Second, I thought you didn't remember my ever saying that I had been married
before and therefore felt you were justified in calling Wild a wife abuser.
Amazing how you have such a selective memory.
And, of course, my experience is with men and yours is with women. No doubt
your experience was better. I wonder IF you alledged wife would agree with
assessment of your relationship.
JS> I was speaking about my having experience with a _successful_
JS> marriage.)
Length of time does not necessarily denote success. My mother was married
to the child molester for 12 years. I know several older women who have
been married 30+ years and hated every moment, but the idea of divorce was
worse than the idea of being married to a bastard. For all we know, the
alledged Wilbur is only with you from the dysfunctional idea that divorce
is a sin. Or maybe she enjoys abuse. Or maybe she feels sorry for you.
Having been a co-dependent wife myself, I know that many women will waste
their entire lives on worthless men.
My one of my best friends (since kindergarten) is like that. For twenty
years she's been married to the same idiot. He's "handicapped"--can't hold
a job because of his vicious temper and lack of attention. So she has slaved
supporting him and their three children, because it is god's will for her
to endure his anger and beatings so that he can learn how to be a good man.
If she can only have enough faith and love he will become what she needs
him to be. Sure.
JS> ... I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor
JS> 10:20)
That why none us is friends with Christians.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... It's okay to call someone stupid; just don't prove it.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:44:38
EID:0e8f 21968580
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd65bd
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f1796c5a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Gwenny:
JS>>> Ha! I laugh you to scorn!
ML>>> Ha! We laugh at your idiocy.
JS>>> A bit of an MPD problem, Herr Doktor?
dc>>> Wrong, Jimbo. I join Marty in his laughter at your idiocy.
FR>> Me too. I'm laughing at you too, Jim.
Gt>> Me, too. That makes four. That is definitely a "we".
JS> Nah. Since Fred and Herr Doktor both count for zero in my mind and you
JS> for a .5, that makes less than one.
Your math skills astond me. You couldn't even count how many
people had agreed with Marty. So, how much does Dan count for, or would
you have to take off your shoes to figure it out?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Good sex means being told, "Stop and I'll kill you!!!"
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:45:57
EID:5535 219685a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd668b
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bb069c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Gwenny:
DM>> What you may or may not prefer, Newbie, carries little
DM>> weight here. This echo _exists_ to argue and fire off
DM>> insults at others, particularly at fundies unable to provide
DM>> any non-Biblical evidence for their many claims. Those who
DM>> volunteer to take a turn in the barrel may _ask_ others not
DM>> to use the bunghole, but they had better wait for the others
DM>> to agree before getting in.
GTP>> Although when the fundy pickin's get slim, ya'll don't scruple
GTP>> tormenting us poor, defenseless heathen .
DM> Awwwwww geeeez!
There you go, calling on the Imaginary Xtian Mythgawd.
DM> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM> Defenseless here?
Mistress if you please, or you'll feel the bite of my whip.
(btw, what is a WOA, I've been busy lately and haven't kept up on stuff.)
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Firings will continue until morale improves
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:49:25
EID:d208 21968620
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd677f
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2bb53c72
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Gwenny:
GtP>> As I point out to certain spouses, *I* was a Christian for
GtP>> the better part of 35 years and I did not make any serious
GtP>> characters changes to become a pagan. Therefore, all
GtP>> Christians can't be bad or he wouldn't have fallen in love
GtP>> with me within mere months of my "converting".
GtP>> Okay, he might have. I make AWESOME spaghetti.
MM> Tell me, Gwenny, what is that present fascination all over the
MM> world with spaghetti? I can understand the spaghetti-sauce
MM> (which can be super delicious - or dreadful, depending on the cook),
MM> but the spaghetti or any other pasta itself? IMHO it is
MM> just a rather bland filler, used in lieu of bread or potatoes
MM> as kind of a side order to the REAL food.
I guess it depends on your tastes. Pasta is very tasty to me. But I like
subtle tastes. I love things like avocadoes and mild cheeses, but loathe
hot sauces. That's why when I make chili for my family, I make a nice bean
soup for myself. My husband says it is too bland for him.
However, I do agree that it is merely a compliment for the necessary carne.
The toughest time we've had recently was when the vegetarian Christian was
staying with us for a month and I ran out of interesting veggie recipes
in less than a week. And I DON'T do tofu.
MM> I like various dishes which has pasta incorporated - but the
MM> pasta on it's own... it leaves me indifferent.
MM> I would venture a guess that the guy loved you for yourself.
Of course he does. I was joking. I always respond to his saying he married
me for my spaghetti (or lasagna) by saying I married him for his Bernina
overlock.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If I save time, when do I get it back?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 22 Dec 96 16:53:24
EID:0302 219686a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd6f55
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0031de5d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
DW> I see. You have a combined household income of $50,000+, placing you
well
DW> into the upper middle class, and yet you don't have enough cash to help
DW> poor "Lady Solthar" out. What do you spend the excess on, Twinkies for
your
DW> daughter?
Not on a monthly basis until we recover from Wild being laid off for a year.
Going from two jobs to one job of $800/month is tough. Especially when
your mortgage is $750. Additionally, out of every of the five checks Wild
has made since he started his new job, we have had a close friend in dire
circumstances that required a minimum of $300 to solve. And we were the
only people with enough "discretionary" income to "lend" it to them. That
has made our recovery a little slower. I forsee being able to be of aid
to her in the near future.
GtP>> well as the last. That job (combined with my sewing and
GtP>> "real" job) brought in around 75K.
DW> Rubles, or dollars?
Dollars, silly. What's with the attitude, dude.
DW> Did I really?
GtP>> HOWEVER, I come from a long line of working class Democrats.
DW> I think you'll find very few "working class Democrats" that think theft
is
DW> "interesting...and fair" simply because the person being robbed has
"too
DW> much stuff."
Really. Never heard them talking about the rich much, then?
DW> That belief is much more common among po' white trash. People who,
DW> incidentally, also regularly have run-ins with local governments regarding
DW> their children.
Sorry, can't help you there. Never been po' white trash. Not white, for
one thing. Too anarchist for another. Few bigger toadies in the world
than the emotionally and financially impoverished. As for "regularly having
run-ins with local governments regarding my children," (which is what you
seem to be implying) I think you misunderstand. The only "runins" I have
had are regarding their education. The "local governments" insist on giving
them substandard education and treating them as sub-humans. I insist that
they learn something and be treated with the same courtesy as adults. A
lot of my difficulties with the school system have been alleviated by my
eldest being fourth ranked heavy weight wrestler (as a freshman) and an
excellent defensive football player (In the words of the coach, "When I
tell the boy to fill a hole, he FILLS that hole. ) Not necessarily a
fair solution, but what in life is fair. And if it prevents the principal
(sponsor of the Young Christian Athletes) from making trouble for Bruce,
cool.
GtP>> for an interesting marriage, since Wild is from the upper
GtP>> class and hasn't lost ALL his elitest leanings--though he
GtP>> has done alot of work. You wouldn't even guess it. )
DW> You're damn right I wouldn't, not when he once tipped the scales at
close
DW> to 300 pounds. "Wild Hunter" of what, jelly doughnuts? Feral Twinkies,
DW> maybe?
I can see that you might just have to go the way of JJ. What is your problem,
little boy? Even at 300 pounds he had difficulty finding pants that were
small enough to not slip off. He IS 6'5". I wonder if you are just jealous
because you don't have enough depth of personally to attract a permanent
relationship? So you are "thin". . .big shit. Maybe your personality was
in the weight you never gained. (I have NO use for thin men who I can break
if I hug too hard, give me a man with some flesh and a mind any day) BTW,
Wild is now 230 pounds and the doctor is concerned because he is getting
so thin.
You need some more experience in the world of real people and give up your
fantasies of 100 pounds blondes who only exist in fantasy.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:20:50
EID:edc3 21968a80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd6eb9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0033d5e3
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
GT>>>> to _my_ daughter.{vbeg} Thirteen years old, 6'
GT>>>> already, and 230# of Valkyrie; karate and
DW>>> Jeeeeeesssssus...
DW>>> I'm 6'3", and the only time I weigh 230 pounds is
DW>>> after an especially heavy Christmas dinner.
GtP>> I bet you don't have an hour glass figure,
DW> I bet I'm a damn sight closer to one than your daughter is.
I doubt it. And even if you do, she DOES have considerably more personality
than you do. At least she isn't lying around at home whining about her
love life.
DW>>> It's time to wean her off the twinkies, Glen.
GtP>> She's never eaten twinkies.
DW> Then wean her off the jelly doughnuts "Wild" catches on his "hunting"
DW> trips.
She doesn't eat jelly donuts, either. You have some serious attitude problems,
child. It's no wonder no woman will bother with you. I doubt I would even
have any use for you. Men with your type of dysfunctional expectations
make me ill.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "Climate is what we expect. Weather is what we get." -R. Heinlein
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Re: End Times are upon us!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 02:37:52
EID:00dd 219514a0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 b2f79bc8
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt David utter:
DR> During the Tribulation, right after the Dispensation, is
DR> to rain down famine and genocide, with the chief target of
DR> butchery being The Real True Christians (Mormons). There
DR> will be blood flowing down the streets of Salt Lake City
DR> to the height of the street gutters, of martyered Latter
DR> Day Saints.
It's funny how so many religions share this same wet dream.
DR> Since we are now living in the last days of the
DR> Dispensation, the Tribulation will be starting "any
DR> day now."
When *haven't* we been living in the "last days"? :)
... "It's OK, Jimmy: Even Jesus would cheat on Tammy Faye."
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: prison diet
|Date: 21 Dec 96 02:38:32
EID:dba7 219514c0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 ba5431ad
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32b36a40
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Rod utter:
RS> Spite them good... Open a GAY BAR there :)
Then, I could install hidden cameras, and make a fortune blackmailing the
LDS
elders.
... He shoots! He scores! He decapitates the linesman!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Nick Andre
|Sub: Re: :)
|Date: 21 Dec 96 02:45:46
EID:493a 219515a0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 6dfc5631
REPLY: 1:340/14 b18bd9f6
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Nick utter:
NA> Whats everyones view on that stain on the office building in Florida
NA> that resembles the "virgin" mary? :)
If I had just eaten 10 or 20 P. Cubenesis mushrooms, I'm pretty sure I'd
be
seeing the Virgin Mary, too.
... "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh "BOB" D'lyeh Wgah'nagl Dhobbz f'htagn."
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Re: execute her ?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 03:57:16
EID:168f 21951f20
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 f20300bc
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ba57c5
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Gwenny utter:
GtP> It's amazing what can happen if a guy turns off the computer and
GtP> actually looks at a woman. I kid you not, I had the experience of
GtP> aggressively flirting with a man for several hours while he just kept
GtP> showing me what his computer could do. I wonder if some of the
GtP> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP> guidelines to getting girls.
Why don't you? It couldn't hurt, could it?
On a semi-related note, yesterday, I was out Christmas shopping, and, while
maybe it was the Zoloft, I actually didn't feel like everyone was thinking,
"God, what an ugly freak he is", and I actually talked to the clerks at
a
couple of the stores I went to (and they were kinda cute, too). The clerk
at
the HMV where I buy most of my psycho death metal CDs was actually quite
friendly, and I had assumed for a long time that I scared her.
I think I may have the skills necessary to get a girlfriend, I just don't
know how to use them for that purpose.
... Necromancers put the FUN back in funerals!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: execute her ?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 04:00:28
EID:27b9 21952000
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 c1c96751
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A57E817
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Judith utter:
JB> I've tried. So has just about every other woman here. Quentin thinks
we
JB> are just trying to be 'nice' to him. Oh well, the only cure for what
JB> ails him is time.
I've recently started up on antidepressants again, although this time, I'm
actually getting some counselling to go along with them. So, maybe there
is
hope for me after all. :)
... Al's Vet & Taxidermy: Either way, you get your dog back.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Re: False Christian Scum
|Date: 21 Dec 96 04:06:46
EID:94ba 219520c0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 c2006160
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32ba9c06
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Sue utter:
SA> And he seems to have done it to slough off his own shortcomings in
SA> that relationship and lay every bit of blame on her, to assauge his
SA> own precious ego. The "man" could not even afford the $100 or so it
SA> would have taken for him to visit, and expected Becke to pay the
SA> whole tab. And yet he complains about others being a "burden"; he
SA> doesn't seem to mind being one himself.
Oh.........................
Maybe I've been too quick to judge poor Becke. Now, I feel like a bit of
a
dick. Does she ever go on IRC? I'll be getting a real Internet account in
January, and I'd like to hear her side of things.
... Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: fido shits again
|Date: 21 Dec 96 04:08:30
EID:d870 21952100
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 d179f1bc
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A552B0A
TID: GE/32 1.2
I seem to have lost your message.
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
me
JB> know.
Oh, wait... there it is.
... He shoots! He scores! He decapitates the linesman!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Re: Zecharah 11:12 / Matthew 26:14-16
|Date: 21 Dec 96 04:31:16
EID:1bf2 219523e0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 5ce974ae
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Leonard utter:
LB> FULFILLMEAT: "Then one of the twelve, called Judas Islcariot,
^^^^^^^^^^^
A Freudian slip, Mr. Bernier?
... If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 17 Dec 96 07:04:46
EID:53d3 21913880
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc38
REPLY: 1:229/622 32b1f1f7
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Andrew Masten <=-
DH> About a message of Andrew Masten to Don Martin:
DM>> The presence of some 4+ billion people on earth living
DM>> at or near the poverty/starvation line is highly suggestive
DM>> that either nobody is there to give a shit, or the
DM>> Imaginary Superfriend In Charge _likes_ it that way.
AM> No, if people lived by God's golden rule of loving others as you
AM> love yourself, nobody would be starving. But God has not
AM> infringed upon our choice to do His will or our will. And we
AM> reap the results of the choices we make.
DH> Really. And just how does this affect the populations of major
DH> countries? Does the golden rule imply that we should limit the
DH> number of children we have so that future generations may share
DH> the existing resources, despite the fact that the most heavily
DH> populated areas have no such intention?
Not at all. Among the many problems besetting third world countries is
thier need to spend a tremendous amount of thier G.N.P. on arms. As a
result, they have a pitiful infrastruture. Even the former Soviet
Republic has few roads to get product to market.
If the world thought of all people as its brothers and sisters, we
would freely redistribute the worlds wealth so that none would lack.
DH> If it does, why the church advocated being fruitful and multiplying?
It wasn't the church who advocated it, God said to Adam & Eve, be
fruitful and multiply. We accomplished that mission, the world is
pretty full!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Ray Talley
|Sub: Re: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 17 Dec 96 07:28:28
EID:6bfa 21913b80
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc39
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32b569bf
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Ray Talley to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Sue Armstrong <=-
AM> Imagine a world where all voluntarily lived by the golden rule,
AM> treat others as they would be treated. No wars, no armies to
AM> support.
RT> How many wars were started (and continue to be started) by relgious
RT> zealots?
Plenty.
AM> No need for police or courts.
RT> Your priest will decide your guilt or innocence.
Wouldn't be any priests.
AM> No locks on houses stores or
AM> cars. No poverty or starvation.
RT> You would want to hide anything or keep out gawd's chosen leaders.
RT> Would you? (That would be heresy!)
You don't get it Ray, there wouldn't be any leaders.
AM> Booming economies.
RT> I never know wheather to be amused or frightened when the christers
RT> confuse christainity with capitalizum.
Whats the confusion?
AM> No rape,
RT> Since according to fundy rules, all women must submit to thier husband
RT> on command.
Ray you haven't the slightest idea what your talking about. If you want
to know something about what God's vision is for a man and wife, read
the N.T. epistles. Instead of the anti-christian propaganda you've been
brainwashed on.
RT> murder
RT> Since everyone would be a stupid, goat fearing, moron like you.
RT> I suppose you would only have to kill the occasional free thinker
RT> when they arose. I'm sure you good christers wouldn't call that
RT> murder, but rather gawd's will.
You think your a free thinker Ray? Your just a parrot for anti-God
rhetoric.
AM> or mayhem. Children could roam freely without fear of wierdo's.
AM> If
AM> your car broke down, you would wave down the first motorist and
AM> they would give you a ride.
RT> No women talking back to their masters, children seen and not heard,
RT> beaten till they understand that god is love. As was common in the
RT> not so distant past.
Your just plain ignorant Ray. Your gullible enough to believe any lie you
read.
I will give you a example of how stupid you are. The pagens around the
Isrealites were forcing thier son's and daughters to pass through
fire. God strickly forbade the Isrealites from doing so. Later they
did anyway, but that wasn't God's plan was it?
AM> Unprecedented wealth and plenty for all.
RT> I suppose your god-thingy will magically recreate the planets
RT> resources when they are gone. Or doesn't your mythology mention that?
It mentions that God created the universe to begin with.
AM> Its difficult to imagine a world where people willfully lived by
AM> the golden rule which Christ said summed up the law and the
AM> prophets.
RT> Not at all. I can 'imagine' it. I just wonder what alien race lives
RT> there. We've already seen what you jesoids do when you have total
RT> power. It was not at all like your little fantasy.
If you read the top of my response, I said if all voluntarily lived
by the golden rule. Not forced by anyone. And just what and when
did jesoids have total power?
AM> You just think that God is some miserable tyrant who wants all to
AM> be miserable. Thats just a lie, God wants prosperity, peace and joy
AM> for all.
RT> Nope. I don't think your god exists.
RT> I think you are a not too bright, confused creature who is ripe to be
RT> controlled by some miserable tyrant claiming to speak for your
RT> delusion.
No, because I have a external objective measure to use to ferrat out
any would be tyrant.
All you have is your own futile thinking.
You are not just ripe, you've been plucked.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 21 Dec 96 09:05:57
EID:f027 219548a0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc3a
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting DAVID RICE to ANDREW MASTEN <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to David Rice <=-
>>AM> We have always observed events to have causes.
>DR> The "first cause" prattle invokes a time =BEFORE=
>DR> there was cause-and-effect, i.e. before the Big Bang.
>DR> How can one observe an event that had no time to
>DR> take place in?
AM> Only something or someone outside of the realm of time.
DR> Since the Big Bang defines time, there is no such thing as
DR> an "outside." This has already been explained to you: why
DR> do you keep asserting a known false hypothesis?
No David, it hasn't been explained, its simply been asserted by you.
And my assertion is not a false hypothesis, but logical deduction. In the
entire history of the universe no one has observed an uncaused event.
Why should the universe be an exception?
>>AM> So the question is simple, are we here by a cause or
>>AM> not?
>DR> "We?" Al was discussing the formation of the
>DR> universe, not "we" as in us human beings. "We"
>DR> most certainly =ARE= here by causes. The universe
>DR> probably was not, ergo no "first cause."
Is this the explanation you refer to "The universe probably was not..."
AM> What make[sic] you think the universe is a uncaused
AM> event?
DR> Because the universe is all there is; in order for it to
Objection your honor, counsel is assuming facts not in evidence.
Sustained!
DR> be "caused," something would have to previously exist to
DR> "cause" it--- a paradox, thus a false hypothesis. If it
DR> was "caused," it would have to be the result of an event;
DR> since time probably did not exist "before" the Big Bang,
DR> no events were possible--- another paradox, thus also a
DR> false hypothesis. Any hypothesis that yields a paradox
DR> must perforce be false, and must be restated or discarded.
If no events were possible before the big bang, then the universe shouldn't
be here. And I see your falsifying my hypothesis on the basis of a
disclaimer "probably".
I agree though that time didn't exist prior to the big bang. Thats why
I think a being outside the realm of time created the universe.
>>>DR> Why BELIEVE anything? Belief leads to stagnant
>>>DR> ignorance.
>>AM> Your answer is a non-sequitor. To believe in nothing
>>AM> is still a belief.
>DR> Your belief that lack of a belief is a belief is
>DR> intelliectually bankrupt.
Believing that a lack of belief is superior to belief is a belief.
DR> So. Your assignment now is:
DR> 1) demonstrate there was anything "before" the
DR> Big Bang.
The universe itself is indicative of cause. Since we know of no uncaused
events, why should we make the universe an exception?
DR> 2) demonstrate that there was a "before the Big
DR> Bang."
What makes you think time is some unbreachable barrior? Einstien
demonstrated that a spaceship travelling at the speed of light no
longer travels through time but space.
If you had a space ship powerful enough to repel just above the event
horizon of a black hole, and tarried there for 1 year, a million
years of time relative to you would pass. Due to time dilation.
DR> 3) go to the nearest acredited college or university
DR> and have someone teach you about the Big Bang.
I suggest you brush up.
DR> 4) visit the COBE web site on the internet to
DR> discover the latest facts confirming the Big Bang
DR> theory as valid.
DR> 5) produce your gods, if you have any.
I don't need to. According to you, the universe is a miracle of being
an uncaused event.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Heat [1/2]
|Date: 21 Dec 96 09:42:33
EID:5fe9 21954d40
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc3b
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2b60b391
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Andrew Masten <=-
>>> Part 1 of 2...
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
RM> Good morning, Andrew.
DC> He has been demonstrated to be nothing other than a baldfaced
DC> liar, not just here, but in EVOLUTION as well.
AM> You make a strong claim, do you have any substantive evidence to
AM> back it up?
RM> You have not been watching. Pay attention.
RM> Laurie has repeatedly been shown to be lying. I have documented a
RM> couple of his lies myself. Some of his more interesting ones:
RM> 1) He claims Popper said that evolution is unscientific. Popper
RM> ...
AM> Popper has made other disparaging remarks regarding evolution.
RM>
RM> Perhaps you'd like to tell us about these "other remarks". A quote
RM> would be nice. A date would be handy.
AM> I
AM> believe he said something to the effect that evolution in explaining
AM> everything explains nothing.
RM> That was the early one, which he later retracted.
AM> I read his recantation and I don't think it was a 100% retraction
AM> of his original claim. I think it was more a face saving gesture
AM> made under duress.
RM>
RM> You "think" so? Popper himself called it a "recantation". His words
RM> aren't good enough for you?
RM>
AM> As you stated no one can no what Popper thinks but himself.
RM> We don't know what Popper thinks. OTOH, we know what Popper says
RM> Popper thinks. And it's not what Laurie says Popper thinks. There
is
RM> "substantive evidence" that one of them is lying. You prefer to think
RM> Popper's lying about what Popper thinks, and that somehow Laurie KNOWS
RM> what Popper thinks, and that he's telling the truth about? A little
RM> farfetched, no?
AM> Whose
AM> to say that his original statement made under no duress is what he
AM> really thinks.
RM> I'd think we have to take Popper's word on this one, wouldn't you?
RM> (And what duress do you think he was under?)
His statements caused quite a stir among the faithful, and they called
him to task for it.
RM> 2) He repeatedly quotes Eldrige admitting that Creationists won the
RM> vast majority of a series of debates in the early '80s. He carefully
RM> cuts the quote off at the point where Eldrige explains that their
RM> ...
AM> I've seen the quote you mention and it does say that the audiences
AM> were stacked in the creationists favor. But in balance he also says
AM> that they are articulate, knowledgeable, and do thier homework.
RM> Yep, he says that. And he says (in the part that Laurie doesn't
RM> quote) that their arguments are devoid of intellectual content. On
RM> balance, Laurie misrepresents Eldrige.
AM> There are different styles of debate.
RM>
RM> Yep. For instance, Laurie's uses dishonest tactics and I don't.
AM> I am not aware of any unwritten rule that a
AM> person has to point out the positive and negative views from a
AM> source.
RM> Nope. Quote whatever you want, as long as you don't misrepresent what
RM> the person you are quoting means. Laurie does that repeatedly. He
RM> invariably prefaces a quote with an editorial comment that is
RM> unsupported by the quote, or even is the direct opposite of the real
RM> intention of the author. He removes the context of the quote and
RM> replaces it with context of his own, changing the meaning entirely.
RM> It's like that old favourite about how the Bible says "... there is
no
RM> God..." when the full context says the opposite.
I don't think the examples you've cited are as glaring as that.
Nevertheless, a good debater salivates at the opportunity to skewer
his adversary with mis quotes like that.
RM> You asked for substantive evidence that Laurie lies. Maybe you don't
RM> consider this sort of misrepresentation a lie, but surely you do not
RM> consider it to be an honest tactic. How would you classify it?
Laurie is a prolific writer. I've only read some of his responses. The
one's I've read seem reasonable. The easiest way for an opponent to
poison the well is to call there adversary a liar. Thus rendering
everything they say suspect. I've been called a liar dozens of times
on this board. To the best of my knowledge, I've never knowingly
reported falsehoods as true. I think perhaps Laurie has used some
pro-creation books for reference that may have been in error. One
other factor to consider, once you get on the defensive on this
board, its tough to get on the offensive. A favorite tactic is to
get people off on tangents that obscures the big ticket items.
RM> 3) He claims that Darrow said in court, during his closing arguments
RM> at the Scopes trial, that "It is the height of bigotry to teach only
RM> one theory of origins in school". Darrow never said any such thing.
AM> I can't tell you why Laurie wouldn't concede this insignificant
AM> point.
RM> He had the details of this particular "quote" spelled out to him over
RM> a month ago. Yet just last week he repeated the claim that Darrow
had
RM> said that.
RM> You say you don't know why he does this. I don't know why he does it
RM> either, but it's a lie, pure and simple. You asked for "substantive
RM> evidence" that he lies. You've got it.
There must be some cause. Why would someone lose thier credibility over
trivia?
RM> He even lies on insignificant points.
RM> 4) He has been shown to knowingly misrepresent the views of many
RM> scientists. I'll give a specific example in the case of Dawkins. One
RM> of Laurie's favourite quotes is:
RM> Clearly, Dawkins viewpoint is very different that the impression
RM> Laurie strives to leave with his careful editing of Dawkins words.
AM> Those are legitimate points you make in rebuttal. However, right
AM> there in the paragraph it says superficially, which indicates that
AM> was not his ultimate conclusion.
RM> So? All that means is that Laurie's lie was transparent. Being a
RM> poor liar is not better than being a good liar.
Thats a poor example. Its obvious from the quote that his conclusions
sre different.
AM> There is a book called the bone peddlers that is very disparaging
AM> of evolution. Yet I totally disagree with his conclusions. Does
AM> that mean every time I quote him as a source I have to file a
AM> disclaimer noting that I disagree with his conclusions? I could do
AM> so, but I don't think its mandatory.
RM> If you misrepresent his conclusions - if you try to claim that he
RM> actually meant something different than he really did mean - then you
RM> would be lying, no?
In this case the author has two conclusions. That evolution is a fairytale,
that I agree with. Then he launches into some new age philosophy that I
think in nonsense. If I quote him, I gaurantee some will claim I'm
quoting out of context. Or misrepresenting his conclusions.
RM> Laurie does that. All the time.
RM> You asked for evidence that Laurie is lying. You've seen only a
RM> little of the evidence, (he posts hundreds of messages here a month,
RM> so there's LOTS
>>> Continued to next message...
RM> -!- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
RM> ! Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Heat [2/2]
|Date: 21 Dec 96 10:28:07
EID:1be9 21955380
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc3c
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2b60b3a1
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Andrew Masten <=-
>>> Part 2 of 2...
RM> more of it ) but the little you have seen should be enough to show
RM> the pattern.
RM> Similar examples from Eldrige, Asimov, Gould, etc have been documented
RM> in this echo. This dishonest tactic is not unique to Laurie - he has
RM> learned it from other Creationists. Gould in particular has taken
RM> great offense to having his words twisted by Creationists, and has
RM> openly taken them to task for it. But they still do it.
AM> So does that mean if a creationist concedes certain points that
AM> evolutionists have been making does that mean there off the record
AM> and evolutionists can't use them? Hardly. Gould got hoisted by his
AM> own petard. By putting forth punk eek he all but concured with much
AM> the creationists have been saying regarding the lack of fossil
AM> evidence and his conclusion that species appear all of a sudden fully
AM> formed. But were supposed to wring our hands and not use his
AM> statements in debates or discussion? A few on this board made hay of
AM> the Pope's statement that he concured with the evolution model.
AM> Should we say hands off because the Pope's conclusions don't agree
AM> with evolutionists?
RM> No one is saying that at all. If the guy says something, if he
RM> concedes a point, that's fine. But don't misrepresent him by claiming
RM> that he says something that he does not say.
RM> You want another example? One from Gould?
RM> Laurie claims that Gould says there are no transitional fossils. He
RM> backs that up with an out of context quote from Gould that says it
is
RM> a trade secret of paleontology that transitional fossils are extremely
RM> rare.
RM> Note the difference. Gould says "extremely rare", but that wasn't
RM> adequate for Laurie's purposes, so Laurie claims Gould says "non-
RM> existent". This is a lie. Pure and simple.
Considering that he proposed a new theory that discards gradaulistic
evolution, I think its evident that he discards the extremely rare cases
as anomolies. Besides, in the quote the phrase extremely rare appears.
RM> You are siding with a documented liar. Be careful of the company you
RM> keep.
I concur with much of his conclusions. I don't agree with dishonest
tactics.
AM> On a parting note I'd like you to consider this Rick. How often
AM> do you consider some of the tactics those on your side of the
AM> debate employ?
RM>
RM> I have taken other people here to task over those tactics. I'm
RM> obviously not capable of changing the way they choose to debate. I
RM> can only control the way I debate. And I choose to avoid those
RM> tactics to the very best of my ability.
RM> Have I been doing OK, Andrew?
You seem above reproach, and I've enjoyed this conversation.
AM> As an aggragate, they rarely quote sources. They
AM> think nothing of the constant use of personal invective, cursing,
AM> caterwalling and the use of inflammatory and perjorative rhetoric.
RM> Yep. They do all of that. They'll also use flawed arguments that
RM> they know are flawed if it suits their purposes. If you had been
RM> around here last spring, you would have got to watch me fight it out
RM> for several months (with a bit of support from Mike and Al and John
RM> Brawley) with several of these same guys (Martin, Marty, Dan, David)
RM> over whether the Bible really says Pi = 3.000 or not (it does not).
RM> Laurie even agreed with me on that one (which really scared me, I must
RM> admit).
RM> If someone wants to present an argument that I know is bogus, they can
RM> expect me to point it out. In fact, in the last couple of years here
RM> I've spent more time arguing with "those guys" than with your side.
I
RM> am a theist, after all.
AM> Countless times I have gotten replys with one sentence taken out
AM> of a paragraph, then asked to defend that one sentence.
. One of Hector's favourite tactics. I hate it when that happens.
RM> You spend a lot of time putting a set of serious thoughts into a
RM> coherent post, and the idiot at the other end ignores it all and
RM> responds to one offhand comment.
RM> Anyway, this note has gotten too long. You asked for substantive
RM> evidence that Laurie lies. I provided it what I consider to be
RM> substantive evidence. Basically, you have tried to excuse his
RM> behaviour. I am puzzled by that.
Having been on the short end of this argument, I'm inclined to give the
benefit of the doubt.
RM> Do you see these tactics as acceptible? I do not, and I think that,
RM> by association, Laurie brings discredit to all who believe in God.
RM> That is why I oppose Laurie.
RM> Take care.
You too. Merry Christmas.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:37:17
EID:a5f9 219734a0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32be297c
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32b34963
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Al Schroeder!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Al Schroeder
whisper furtively to John Brawley something about errors in the christa:
JB>> (??!!) "Valentine Michael Smith" is a metaphor for a "Jesus?"
AS>> No, of Michael.
JB>> OK. He _seemed_ to be making a Jesus-connection....
AS> He was comparing how some early (and the Jehovah's Witnesses) think
Jesus
AS> was an agel, like Michael,and how Heinlein made HIS messiahlike figure,
AS> Valentine Michael Smith, also an avatar for an angel.
Somehow I find this entire train of thought rather unlikely, both considering
the hosing he gave organized religion in SIASL itself (Foster and Company)
and in Revolt in 2100, and the re-examination of parts of the Christian
mythos in Job: A Comedy of Justice.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Warp 5 ... engage! No, no, Mr. Data... more clutch!!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Euthanasia
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:46:19
EID:202b 219735c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32be2b0d
REPLY: 1:105/40.667 2162d8d0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Dan Ceppa!
Saturday December 14 1996 08:55, Dan Ceppa wrote to Jeff Marchizi:
FR>> Look at the history of the Christian cult. They're all to willing
to
FR>> murder anyone they wish. Their opinion on suicide doesn't matter.
JM>> Christian Cult? I am not talking about any cult. I was addressing
JM>> the church itself.
DC> Which is a cult. Look up the meaning of the word.
I'd be happy to post Isaac Bonewits' Cult Evaluation Scale, for anyone who
who would like to c confirm the above statement for themselves.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... Christ died for our sins, so let's not disappoint him.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: "Real"
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:34:28
EID:fa7f 21958440
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7276e0d5
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32b82f60
LW>> Here is where you make an assumption. It is a perfectly
LW>> valid assumption, as long as it is recognized as such. But
LW>> is it a demonstrable fact that reality is made of matter
LW>> rather than something else? This is precisely what I am
LW>> asking.
MG>> I see why Hector presscribed his experiment to you. The
MG>> above statement is as far flung a piece of sematics as I
MG>> have ever seen.
LW> I note that you did not answer the question.
I certainly did answer the question. When you make an assumption, you test
your theory. If you wnat to see if the sidewalk is real, jump off a building.
Your question is actually "Could something that is not material be real?"
Your purpose in asking it is to really ask the question "Is god real?"
The first question has a multitude of answers that do not fit your final
query. So let's go straight to that one.
Pick some things that we commonly discuss that are not material, such as
emotions, individual taste, intelligence, etc. To answer your question,
will you wnat to claim that any of these could be god? do they have the
ability to do whatever you attribute to a god? If not, then how could something
else that is non material be god?
LW> No, I am not questioning whether the sidewalk is made of matter.
LW> I am questioning whether it can be _demonstrated_ that the
LW> sidewalk is made of matter rather than consciousness or some
LW> other entity.
The siewalk satisfies our definition of matter. You are stretching it.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: probability
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:43:58
EID:7cee 21958560
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7276e8b8
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b860d7
MG>> The evidence points to lack of deity. Why do so many, in the
MG>> face of constant pushing back of god, continue to believe.
GT> Intellectual laziness and the desire for an 'easy way out' of
GT> personal responsibility and honour.
I'm glad I didn't have to sayit.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:44:25
EID:fba1 21958580
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7276ed78
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32b86150
MG>> So it has nothing to do with being a Catholic. YOu agree
MG>> that vanity (pride) is something to be avoided...as a
MG>> christian.
GT> Yet they are the most vain of all.
Some are. I don't like to characterize all xtians under one flag. However
those that think that they have a leg up on us because they believe in a
god and/or a savior have some rethinking to do.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Why don't we see God?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:52:36
EID:4bfc 21958680
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72770dcd
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32b6e9a2
MG>> Wrong. I have argued this before. If the above is
MG>> impossible, then perfection and god are non existant.
LW> I would suggest that your idea of perfection needs development.
I would suggest that you look up the word "perfect" in the dictionary.
LW> Is doing contradictory things part of perfection? Why would a
LW> perfect God tear down with one hand what s/he built with
LW> another?
Good question. Why would it? Makes no sense, does it? Why does god create
humans and then starve them to death? Why kill them with a slow death by
virus when their only sin was to get a blood transfusion? Makes no sense,
does it?
Perfection, on a universal scale, is impossible. Thereofre nothing perfect
can exist.
LW> Giving free will and interceding on our behalf are not
LW> contradictory. That, in fact, is what Christianity--and many
LW> other religions--state that God does. However, it is one
LW> thing to intercede on our behalf and another thing to prevent
LW> all of our bad actions and their results.
This is nonsense. You intercede, free will is no longer free will.
LW> Now how would you feel about it if every time you reached for
LW> that chip or that beer, an invisible force stopped your hand?
LW> How would you feel if every time you saw a pretty woman that
LW> you weren't married to, you felt a wall going down in your
Your claim is nonsense. We have free will. Nothing intercedes. There
is no god to shield us from our "sins". Your examples stink becasue they
do not show that there is a god to do these things or not. Why intercede
sometimes and not others? Why perform miracles?
LW> Could you really have freedom in that case? Would you even
LW> consider yourself human if all your actions were determined
LW> and directed by divine will?
So in conclusion, you claim that your god is powerless. Not much of a god.
You see, in your scenario, god must be either,
1. Powerless.
2. Nonexistant.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Das Uber Noel
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:18:24
EID:2a0d 21958a40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72773df7
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2b9efbb4
RS> Is "Christmas" going to be the next litmus test of
RS> theopolitical correctness?
JUst tell all of them to "Go to hell" and be done with it.
We recieved a note from our head "administrator" (the pc version of "secretary")
that the usual xmas party would be renamed to a holiday party because some
twit said that she couldn't attend a "Xmas party" due to religious belief.
Get a life, children. It's just a gawddamned party.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:22:40
EID:092a 21958ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 727744fa
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b9830b
DM> What would you propose for the fetuses? Pop them in
DM> formalin in little bottles so the Mommies could take them
DM> home for the mantelpiece? Dry them into relics, like the
You would be amazed at the number of mothers that cuddle a spontaneously
aborted fetus before it is unceremoniously sliced and diced by the Pathology
department.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Nick Andre
|Sub: :)
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:25:47
EID:934d 21958b20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72774a82
REPLY: 1:340/14 b18bd9f6
NA> Whats everyones view on that stain on the office building in
NA> Florida that resembles the "virgin" mary? :)
They should wipe it up.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:27:50
EID:8e99 21958b60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72775058
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6880
SS>> No you didn't, bullshitter, you spewed some nonsense about
SS>> needing a liver. We ALL know the value of a properly
SS>> functioning liver. This has been evidenced and is well
SS>> documented medically.
SH> It is also medically documented that paracetamol destroys the
SH> functions of the liver, and some people deliberately overdose on
SH> paracetamol.
You are a fucking moron.
Why do we need to be saved? Answer the question or we will start laughing
at you.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:29:26
EID:74d9 21958ba0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72775863
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32ba6884
MG>> Keep your analogies. Tell us why we need to be saved.
SH> Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
SH> So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone
SH> needs to be saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the
SH> concentration camp.
So we don't need to be saved and the entirety of christian theology is bullshit.
Thank you for this kind explanation.
The intelligent person would realize that the question "Why do we need to
be saved?" requires the evidence of a god first and then the evidence that
salvation can be accomplished through belief in a savior...which you can
give evidence for as well.
This is what the intelligent person would have seen in the question.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:56:44
EID:5e6b 21966f00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72829110
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a309
GtP> Say BLESSED BE to that, brother Goldberg. And speaking of
GtP> fine comestibles, I think it's time to go give my new coffee pot
GtP> it's first run. . good coffee laced liberally with
GtP> Bailey's.
That's right....ruin it with Bailey's.
I like coffee hot, strong and black...without the attendant dirty jokes.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:57:41
EID:6fb6 21966f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7282949a
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a326
MG>> When did you ever bash a scotch drinker?
GtP> Jealousy.
Not at all. Marty continues to make this up believing that he has made
a dent in good taste. I'm just reminding him that this isn't so. He also
knows whioch geologist has a bottle of scotch in his home and which immunologist
ahs no bourbon.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 22 Dec 96 13:59:42
EID:ce03 21966f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 728298d8
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32b9a416
MG>> Why would homosexuality be a sin? Just because it says so
MG>> int he bible? If the answer is "yes", you need to think the
MG>> matter over.
GtP> Was it here that we were discussing the fact that homosexuality
GtP> is a sin, but lesbianism isn't??
That's next. Since those nasty old lesbians don't practice anal intercourse,
the funeis have forgotten all about them. Seems that they practice less
of the above than heteros do, thereofre have less sin.
They also have less AIDS, but that's another matter.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 22 Dec 96 14:05:25
EID:35d1 219670a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7282a4ae
DR> Talking on the phone is unnatural intercourse. That must
DR> mean I commit sodomy every time I order a pizza....
Not a bad idea, if we could only get them to send out a delivery girl.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Staal wants to know
|Date: 22 Dec 96 14:06:10
EID:6dbd 219670c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7282a629
DR> You mean Marty DIDN'T sic his dog on the pizza delivery
DR> boy!?!?! Hell. His stature in my eyes just feel two feet
DR> (yet still miles above Komrad Staal). Why WOULDN'T he sic
DR> his dog on the pizza delivery boy?! Athiests, after all,
DR> for the most part do no good things. Seems like a great
DR> way to get free pizza.
I'm wondering what he'll do with the dog when the IRS auditors come around
to his place.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Lupus
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:03
EID:0bfb 219688e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 728455ba
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32b42b6c
LB> Please tell your friend to contact the Lupus Foundation, or her
LB> doctor to see about support groups that will offer her REAL
LB> information, and an ear when she needs to voice her
LB> frustrations.
I did my dissertation in the field of autoimmune disease. Lupus is something
that can kill, but can also remit for along periods of time. As long as
the anti nuclear antibody remains constant and the pattern does not change,
things can remain fairly status quo.
If she wants to remain barefoot and pregnant, Lupus almost always remits
during pregnancy, but you gotta be pretty desperate to take that route.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:17:34
EID:2da0 21968a20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72846630
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A552B0A
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this,
JB> let me
JB> know.
Got it here.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Enochban.Rit
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:18:48
EID:7f8a 21968a40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72846adc
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A58A3EC
JB> Johnny: Sob, sob, boo-hoo...oh my poor self-esteem.
JB> Teacher: That's ok, Johnny. They're both Chrysler products so I'm
JB> giving
JB> you an A.
Yeah, outcome based education isone of those things that I agree with the
fundies on.
However, I did glance at it in this morning's paper and he's back to his
bible stories.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:22:54
EID:fe79 21968ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72847760
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A57A9EE
JB> Your priorities are screwy, Jesse. And the fact that you feel
JB> compelled to detail your good works says to me that you are
JB> doing them more for recognition (whether by your god or your
JB> fellow man makes no difference) than for the satisfaction of
JB> just doing them.
I'm not sure about this last part. Were Jesse a real christian, he would
have said "That was very nice of you" and let the matter drop without a
litany of his quest for Do Gooder of the Year.
I don't think that it has anything to do with priorities. I think he does
it because it's the thing to do. But caught in the arguement, he blurted
it out like many of us might.
But he's still full of it about atheists doing no good things.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ALL
|Sub: The party's over
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:26:38
EID:f219 21968b40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72847e2f
I was stunned to open the paper yesterday evening and see that Carl Sagan
had died of his dysplasia. It's too bad that a voice of reason and intelligence
moves on to death and clowns like the bunch at ICR remain.
Too bad that he can't sue Billy Wolff's ass off for defamation of character.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:28:48
EID:202c 21968b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7284824c
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32bafcca
SQ> I am told that Sagan died yesterday. Comments?
Great minds run inthe same gutter. I just this second posted almost the
same thing. I hope Billy is happy now that Sagan won't have to kick his
ass around a courtroom for being a moron.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:36:21
EID:c5a6 21968c80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72849579
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32bb7bf4
SQ> who make the stuff had a web page. I got free goodies from Jack
SQ> in the Box by dropping them a comment on their web site, and I
SQ> wouldn't mind some stuff from the Vernors people.
Oh Brother...before long you'll be visiting web sites for the Morons and
JW's so that you can get free bibles or literature of some sort.
A free bible has aobut as much use as a free Jumbo Jack. :-)
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: free will two
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:37:05
EID:fc3d 219734a0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 970a0274
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> But Robert asked a direct question, and I would rather respond
AS>> directly to him first, rather than give it away.
RC>
CJ>> If Al wants to mysterious instead of responsive, OK.
RC>
RC> He wasn't responsive to the question I asked him, either.
That seems to be increasingly typical.
CJ>> In the meantime, he may want to read the physicist Robert L.
CJ>> Forward's novel, DRAGON'S EGG and the sequel (can't remember the
CJ>> name now, sorry) in which he worked out life on a neutron star.
RC>
RC> STARQUAKE. I already mentioned DRAGON'S EGG to Al before, but he
RC> had nothing to say about it.
Yeah, I do remember reading that. Falling a millimeter on
a neutron star is quite fatal.
Classic hard sf: you don't buy for character development
or literary style, but to watch the consequences of the ideas
worked out. Loved it.
... Gather ye taglines while ye may. . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1446
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 261/1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: heat
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:37:06
EID:7aaf 219734a0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 970a02eb
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JJ>>> those participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
CJ>> As the fundies are insecure about their Christian beliefs?
SQ> That's, er, different...uh, somehow.
He doesn't consider himself a fundy. Yet he raves about
"demonic pacts."
SQ> Jesse's in here to "combat the evil." Ask him about his definition
of
SQ> "evil." :)
Ciya?
Uh . . . just who is Ciya? The nanny-goat companion of
Stargoat?
... Want immortality? Fine, first turn in your ID card. . . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1446
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 261/1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: All
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 23 Dec 96 12:39:48
EID:6204 219764e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32be7df0
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 25b48bd3
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, All!
Dies solis December 22 1996, Dixit Jesse Jones ad All:
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
JJ> losers.
How long do you expect it will be before he returns?
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
JJ> to hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as
JJ> a testimony against them.""
An original thought...
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
And another original thought.
JJ> The fool says in his heart,"There is no God."
"The fools says in his heart, 'Your question is stupid. I will not answer
it.'"
Farewell, Jesse, but not "Goodbye."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Becke Jones
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: LDS Papal Baptisms, R
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:38:20
EID:f6f9 219414c0
MSGID: 1:266/977.0 2970f88f
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.00k [Beta]
->
-> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Sean utter:
->
-> SM> My next email message from her (which had been arriving daily wit
-> SM> fail) was nearly two weeks later; three more exchanges at increas
-> SM> slow rates, and I'm getting a phone call telling me she's
-> MARRIED.
-> And, she didn't even tell you that she was engaged?!?!?!?!? What an
-> incredibly dishonest thing to do.
->
-> First, she was telling me that I shouldn't have such a negative attit
-> Then, she pulls a stunt like this. I'd be shocked if it wasn't for my
-> negative attitude.
Quentin: Why the hell should I have even bothered telling him I was
engaged?? We had been broken up for a couple of months at that point--
I considered him a good friend and nothing more. Hell, most of my
friends (with the exception of those on #holysmoke, who Paul (my
husband) and I talk to on a nightly basis) had no idea about this.
As far as Sean goes, fall into his pity-party if you wish, but he
brought our breakup on all by hisself. Check out my message to him for
particular reasons WHY we didn't last.
As far as you go--everything I said I meant. A positive attitude IS
everything. I'm married now, incredibly happy, and doing quite well.
-> Well, my guess is that either the guy was a long-time friend, or he
-> knocked her up. Call me Mr. Cynicalbastard, but my bet is on the
-> latter.
Paul and I were pretty good friends before we got married. And no, I'm
not pregnant, I assure you. Don't jump to conclusions without knowing
the whole story. The distored half you're getting from Sean isn't even
close.
I thought I knew you better than this, Quentin. I guess I was wrong.
Becke
--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00k
* Origin: þFIDOþBIGFOOT EXPRESS BBSþMILLVILLE, NJþ1:266/977 (1:266/977)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 266/977 507 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Becke Jones
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: LDS Papal Baptisms, Revis
|Date: 20 Dec 96 02:44:25
EID:4a9f 21941580
MSGID: 1:266/977.0 de127c37
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.00k [Beta]
-> I assume it was the lady we all knew as your romantic interest.
-> Condolences or congratulations... I hardly know what to offer.
-> You seem to have been thoroughly two-timed, so maybe all her
-> sad background stories were also virtual reality created for
-> their entertainment value here in HS.
->
-> I guess none of us will ever know. Another possibility is that
-> she had so low self esteem that she didn't dare to meet you.
Fer chrissakes, you people sure have a tendency to jump to irrational
conclusions about things you know nothing about. I didn't two-time
Sean, I'm not that type. He and I had been long broken up before I even
met Paul (my husband). You don't even _know_ my side of the story (and
I wasn't exactly here to offer it--Sean made sure to announce MY
private business to the echo when I was in no position to answer). If
you're truly that interested in WHY Sean and I broke up, read my post
to him stating the reasons. He knows them damn well, it isn't my fault
if he's not man enough to take responsibility for them.
As far as my background goes, I'm not in the habit of trolling and/or
lying. A few of the others around here know me well enough to know
that--you obviously don't. My past is my past--bad and good. I could
care less what you think, and your half-blown attempt at
trying to psychoanalyze me has failed miserably.
Becke
--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00k
* Origin: þFIDOþBIGFOOT EXPRESS BBSþMILLVILLE, NJþ1:266/977 (1:266/977)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 266/977 507 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 23 Dec 96 11:58:42
EID:139e 21975f40
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32bec852
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b953ba
NC> I was attempting to show you that even though your pea brain
NC> could only come up with these two reasons...there may be a 3rd!
NC>
NC> Maybe God does exist, but man is the one that is messing things
NC> up and not listening!
DM> Such an easily ignored divinity seems a trifle short in
DM> the old omnipotence department, wouldn't you say? How do
DM> divine murmurations so utterly unheard by the bulk of
DM> mankind differ in any significant way from the nonactions of
DM> no divinity at all? Please be specific.
"divine murmurations so utterly unheard" isn't quite true now
is it? Since the Bible even by 1974 was one of the most read and most published
works known to man.
To print every Bible, New Testament and individual portion of the
Bible published up to 1974, one printer would have to produce
1 copy every 3 Seconds!
20 Copies every minute
1,200 copies every hour
28,800 copies every day
10 1/2 million every year
Non stop for 245 Years!
That's enough Scripture to circle the earth end to end over 1,000 times.
So , I doubt you can say "utterly unheard" ...
Nate
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 106/113 977 990 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 23 Dec 96 12:07:16
EID:139e 219760e0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32beca54
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32b953bb
DM> Because if there is no Imaginary Superfriend in
DM> Charge" than man becomes his own "Imaginary
DM> Superfriend"
DM> OK, to what possible purpose would man become his own
DM> Imaginary Superfriend? What benefit would flow from such a
DM> delusory state? It would appear that in the absence
DM> of the object of delusion, you would choose _becoming_ the
DM> delusion yourself rather than seeking reality. I would not,
I will quote from another source to answer this question..
"If there are no absolutes by which to judge society, then society
is absolute. And sonn after the Killing starts"
Francis Schaeffer
Nate
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 106/113 977 990 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 20 Dec 96 17:51:21
EID:f175 21948e60
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bd7a2d
Hi Marty...
On 15 Dec 96 12:15:24, Marty Leipzig penned the following to Al Schroeder
re: Christians v Guns
CG> Is it every Christian American's inalienable Right to carry arms, and
CG> shoot his neighbour?
Well, they do say a man with a gun isn't nearly as dangerous as
a man with a Bible and a gun...
AS> It is every AMERICAN's right to bear arms, Christian or not. I
Do you see every American as good potential for a
well-regulated militia? Doesn't the Bill of Rights mention
something about that?
AS> personally would prefer more gun control, to keep it out of the hands
AS> of known offenders and the mentally unbalanced.
They are trying that here, but it still won't work. Last year
before the new gun laws came into effect here they showed
pictures of the weapons people had turned it. While I didn't
feel bad about Sat. night specials being destroyed, it was
heartbreaking to see some of the antiques and presentation
pistols that were going to be melted down.
ML> Al, there currently are over 25,000 gun laws on the books now.
ML> You can see how well they're working.
Part of the problem here is that firearms violations are among
the first to be plea-bargained away in criminal cases where
they appear. At worst case if there's time to be served for it
then it's served concurrently and who the hell cares.
ML> What do you suggest?
How about an automatic death penalty for anyone caught
red-handed using a gun in the commission of a crime? No trial
and no appeal, just stick them up against the wall like the
looters after the bombing of Dresden.
In some ways I'd like to see a return of the old days when
everyone over the age of 16 carried a gun and knew how to use
it. Not only would it weed the country of low-life who have no
respect for others, but it would make for a very polite
society.
John
... Guns don't kill people - bullets do.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: John Musselwhite
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:47:09
EID:8579 21953de0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bd7a2e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0519bbc3
Hi David...
On 18 Dec 96 04:31:00, David Worrell penned the following to Sue Armstrong
re: Look Who is Insulted?
SA> (Yes, folks, this is Canada, it's December, and we have no
SA> snow or ice. We've been enjoying rather mild weather of
SA> late, actually. It's barely around 45F, and certainly no
SA> lower. We'll probably be paying for it in January and
SA> February, though, the only months we get any serious snow at
SA> all (ie, snow that lasts more than one day and then melts in
SA> a puddly mess.)
DW> Shit. It is snowing here as I type this. It isn't a heavy snow by any
DW> means, but it is snow.
DW> You Canucks can't even get winter right. :)
At 9:45 AM on the Saturday morning before Christmas here in
Calgary and the temperature is 22 below zero F with blowing
snow and wind chills near -50. The snow bank outside our house
is about six feet right now.
We got winter right this time. After all, it only started a
couple of hours ago...
John
... Winter is Natures way of saying, "Up Yours!"
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Goldberg, the jerk... Vegeterians?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:03:54
EID:010b 21968860
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 7c46f656
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 71cf5e75
On (08 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Carl Sagan didn't claim that evolution had positively had taken
BW> place!
MG> Here it is, Billy, in blacka nd white. You believe that Sagaan
MG> is a creationist.
Oh poor confused Martin. Of course evolution happens. Yes, some
things change over time. But the evolution theory has you know it
doesn't explain everything. Like how some species just appear
without any link to any other species.
Don't you recall the late Carl Sagan (not Sagaan) also saying: "...
inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer (although not with a
Designer of a more remote and indirect temperament)."??? What in the
hell do you think this means, dipshit?
Here, let's look at some of the problems that exists, you pea
brained moron!
*****
December 13, 1996
3 Human Species Coexisted on Earth, New Data Suggest
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
... The team of scientists, led by Dr. Carl Swisher III of the
Berkeley Geochronology Center in California, concluded that it was
"no longer chronologically plausible" to argue that the Java H.
erectus evolved into Asian H. sapiens. From earlier fossil evidence,
Australian H. sapiens are at least 30,000 years old, and could be
much older, judging by rock art.
"The multiregionalists will have to do some fast talking to explain
this," said Dr. Philip Rightmire, a paleoanthropologist at the State
University of New York at Binghamton. "It's quite a blow for them to
absorb, but neither side has won the day yet in this theoretical
battle."...
Copyright 1996 The New York Times
*****
See you little twit, you put your faith into your evolutionary
theory and believes it answers everything. But no, it does not you
little moron. There are holes everywhere! You should have enough
intelligence to dig deeper to see if all of the pieces fit nicely
together. But no, you are just another brainwashed twit who follows
blindly. Gosh... you people are the dumbest morons I have ever ran
into in my life. Even fundies that I have run into shows more
intelligence than you do.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:06
EID:52a9 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 79e6084e
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 71cf6095
On (08 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> Did the officers have nicer latrines than the GI's or did they
MG> let you even clean the officer's latrine?
When you finally start talking intelligently, we'll talk.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:18
EID:9709 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4a3f6151
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 71cf626a
On (08 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> Oh I know the truth alright Martin. The truth is that you lied
BW> and twisted the facts. But that's exactly what we expect from
BW> fools like you Martin.
MG> You are soon going to become the echo punching bag.
Only in your dreams.
MG> Do you have a little sign we can pin to your back that says
MG> "kick me?"
No, but I did make up a poster which says: "Martin Goldberg is a
dick head!" Does this count?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Marty doesn't know! Does this sound like anyone we know?
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:31
EID:8730 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 d7d65642
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 71cf64bc
On (08 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Bill Wolff...
MG> MG>> Clean any latrines lately?
BW> Only the one in my own home. Why do you ask, dick breath?
MG> Dickbreath? That shows a lack of breeding, Billy.
Only if you could hear how stupid you sound!
MG> How ARE things int he trailer park?
I wouldn't know, dick head!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:45
EID:ce02 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 0edf01f0
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ae4457
On (11 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Marty Leipzig...
ML> I am simply amazed that benighted creatures like this actually
ML> manage to exist in society. What also amazes me is that this
ML> nescient schmuck can actually figure out how to turn on a
ML> computer.
DW> You can thank both Bill Gates *and* those morons at Apple
DW> Computer for that.
DW> "Let's make this shit *really* easy so all *sorts* of morons
DW> can show the world just how stupid they are!"
Yeah... I guess you are living proof of this, eh? A moron like you
who can't see the different between a fundy and an agnostic, eh?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:52
EID:640c 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 8d293174
On (12 Dec 96) DAVID RICE wrote to BILL WOLFF...
DR> Liar Wolff knows all that already. It has been explained to him
DR> in great detail.
BW> I'm not a liar David the freak! Please show any evidence where
BW> I lied, David the dick head!
DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by your own
DR> canard here YEARS ago, and that fact is well known. Your
DR> pretense at denial only servers to make you appear even more
DR> the pitiable fool.
Poor David the moron sees shit that ain't there again. What a twit!
For the zillionth time, please show me where I called the late Carl
Sagan a creationist. But like always, you'll refuse to.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:04:56
EID:1766 21968880
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 60039bb4
On (12 Dec 96) DAVID RICE wrote to BILL WOLFF...
DR> [Ignorance is] your finest (and only) personality trait, not
DR> mine.
BW> You believe fools and liars. Thus you are a moron! It's
BW> just that simple dipshit!
DR> Nope: I believe nothing. I leave that sickening character trait
DR> to fundy morons like yourself.
Fundy morons like myself? Boy are you lost! Now your calling Carl
Sagan a fundy moron? Boy are you really sick!
BW> but you're also a terrorist.
DR> Yes. And damn proud of it, too.
BW> It figures. You don't get your way, then you stamp your
BW> feet and threaten others. Only stupid fucks do this sort
BW> of things.
DR> Only a stupid shit (i.e. yourself) would believe that torching
DR> an ROTC classroom is "threatening others." Hear or see any
DR> buildings quiver in fright lately, you stupid fundy moron?
No you damn fool! Destroying government property hurts all tax
payers you dumb shit. Of course you're just too damn stupid to
realize this.
BW> You're truly a real sick one David.
DR> You're the nescience schmuck spewing the Kafkaesque, mendacious
DR> prattle around here. You have demonstrated yorself to be a
DR> untutored, asinine, loutish liar; a sodden, vacuous,
DR> meretricious, specious imbicle with delusions of intelligence,
DR> with the postiche affectation of knowing what the fuck you're
DR> talking about. In short, you're an ass.
BW> Sorry shit head David. I clearly know what the fuck
BW> I'm talking about.
DR> Clearly, no one else in this or any other echo I'm aware of
DR> have observed any intellect behind your drooling posts. You
DR> have constantly demonstrated yourself to be utterly ignorant
DR> about what you pretent to discourse upon.
Clearly you don't have the full capacity to comprehend what you read.
BW> I'm an agnostic who doesn't buy this old mythology
BW> beliefs like you damn fuckups do.
DR> You're a stupid, ignorant fundy shit who believes whatever your
DR> cult's masters tell you to believe.
I don't listen to ignorant fundy cult masters you damn stupid moron!
You haven't been listening, have you Rice the moron? You don't take
notes like I have asked you to and you don't remember a damn thing
I've said to you over and over again. Why? It's in my humble
opinion, it's because you are just too damn stupid!
BW> No wonder why you're so retarded.
DR> Recient I.Q. result of 138. Certainly not "retarded." Try
DR> again, retard.
BW> Damn, that's even lower than mine.
DR> Only if that's "I.Q." Idiot Quotent. Yours =IS= oviously higher
DR> than mine. Indeed, you strive to remain that ignorant by
DR> ignoring your intelliectual superiors such as myself, marty,
DR> Martin, Robert, and many others here. Of course, an egg plant
DR> is smarter than you are: they don't believe NASA sends gifts to
DR> the space aliens; they don't believe Carl Sagan is a
DR> Creationist.
Look you dumb twit! I don't believe Carl Sagan is a creationist for
starters. Which I have told you this zillions of times. Yet you just
can't understand this fact. Why? You're a moron, that's why! And the
guy who I looked up to named the late Carl Sagan, who was the same
guy who "As a member of the Voyager team, Sagan conceived the idea
of putting a message aboard the Voyager spacecraft on the chance
that extraterrestrial beings will come upon it centuries from now,
somewhere on its endless journey beyond the solar system." -
(Copyright 1996 The New York Times), you dumb twit! Plus you can't
even spell worth a damn. You're not fooling anybody but yourself!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Wolff still missing a brain
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:05:05
EID:1ba1 219688a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 9da0c57a
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32b0f5d0
On (13 Dec 96) Patrick Kalinauskas wrote to Drew Barrymore...
FR> I heard about Hemmingway. Drew went through a lengthy stint of
FR> drugs, sex, and alcohol. After she dried out, she had to
FR> undergo breast reduction surgery. After all that, she still
FR> wants me. I just know it.
Poor Fredric confuses fantasy with reality but once again for the
zillionth time. ROTFL!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:05:18
EID:a2df 219688a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 f75f1b55
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32af7842
On (11 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Martin Goldberg...
MG> You are soon going to become the echo punching bag. Do you
MG> have a little sign we can pin to your back that says "kick
MG> me?"
DC> His mommy embroidered it for him, and his daddies tattoed it
DC> to his butt.
DC> It's not shooting fish in a barrel, it's like shooting fish
DC> in a 3.5 oz tuna can.
Poor lying out his ass Danny boy. Keep up your silly ass stupid
remarks and show everyone in the whole wide world how stupid you can
really be. ROTFL!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:05:29
EID:9f9f 219688a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 3b9b0229
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32b1618e
On (13 Dec 96) Don Martin wrote to David Rice...
DM> I remember writing a post to him some three years ago
DM> explaining what quoting out of context was and how, precisely,
DM> he had done it with his chunk of Carl Sagan: at the time I was
DM> willing to believe him simply ignorant. His persistant denial
DM> now makes me willing to believe he is a liar.
Poor Don also believes that I had taken Carl Sagan out of context
and called him a creationists. Well buddy, you can't comprehend, can
you? Let's see this again!
BW> Okay where do you want me to start? How about with Carl
BW> Sagan? In his book Cosmos, he candidly admits "The fossil
BW> evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great
BW> Designer." - 18 Aug 93 09:36:39
Do you know how to read? Apparently not! Do you know what "could be"
means? It doesn't seem so. Do you know what candidly means? It
doesn't appear so! Do you see where I called Carl Sagan a
creationist? I don't, unless you foolishly want to take me out of
context like a damn moron! And how does Sagan explain himself?
CS> ... inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer (although not
CS> with a Designer of a more remote and indirect temperament)."
Exactly my whole point! Still confused? ROTFL! Once again, Bill
Wolff shows the world what fools you people are. You're just a big
joke. Try using some intelligence next time please. Then you might
have a chance.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Marty has his head up his ass again!!!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:05:36
EID:aa8a 219688a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 b7749b48
On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> I THINK CARL SAGAN IS A CREATIONISTS?
ML> You sure do, Billyboy. If you don't, then why were you so
ML> fucking stupid to claim so right here in this very echo?
I claimed that Carl Sagan is a creationist? Why do you continue to
lie Marty? I have asked you morons a zillion times where is this
rumored quote! Yet you never come up with one. Why do you continue
to lie for? Are you a moron? Yet years later you continue to see
shit that ain't there. Surely you are a total moron!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fredric Rice: As dumb as they come!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:06:37
EID:18d8 219688c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 92bf676d
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ac13b081
On (09 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Marty Leipzig...
FR> For a while he was expressing his "honest amazement" that
FR> quoting out of context is a lie. After that short while he
FR> started denying it entirely.
Yes I do deny saying that Carl Sagan is a creationist. Why do you
have a problem with this dumb shit?
FR> He's just one of thousands of Creationists who hate science and
FR> are dishonest about what motivates them. Aren't you Bill? Sure
FR> you are.
Boy are you lost! I'm an agnostic (not a creationist) who loves true
science. But I don't buy science fiction.
FR> First he started pretending he was surprised quoting out of
FR> context was dishonest.
That wasn't quoting out of context. That was a quote to make you
people think (which apparently you can't do) and come up with
intelligent reasons why Carl Sagan would make such a remark. Then
when you were all lost for answers, I was planning on lifting you
out of your stupidity and explain. But no, you foolishly take ME out
of context you foolish claim that I called Carl Sagan a creationist.
How stupid can you morons be? Apparently REALLY stupid!
FR> And it's people like Wolff who want to put an end to teaching
FR> science in the public schools.
More lies by Fredric Rice!!! You're such a moron!
FR> The fuck won't even tell us what his problem is with science
FR> and with evolution in particular.
I have over a zillion times now. The problem is that you can't read!
Here I'll explain it again, dipshit! I don't have any problems with
science, it's just when morons puts faith into theories which are
flawed and believe they answer everything when it does nothing of
the kind. Do you understand yet, you little dick head?
FR> He hasn't presented any alternative, testable theories on
FR> anything which replaces the theories of evolution
Of course I did. Even my very first post in the DR_DEBUG echo. I
presented that the major current theories suck and don't have all of
the answers. I don't see one bit of evidence of any God Almighty
existing. If he does exist, why does he hide? Nor do I see
evolutionists holding the answers either. As their theories brings
up many other unanswered questions. I am trying to get you morons to
think for yourselves. But damn you people are so dumb, you can't
even tell the difference between an agnostic and a theist.
FR> and, in fact, he doesn't seem to even know that evolution is a
FR> fact.
Oh poor confused Fredric. He still doesn't understand that I know
that evolution is a fact! Although the evolutionary theory doesn't
explain it all. So why can't you accept this simple fact? Perhaps
you being a total dick head might explain this problem of yours.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice doesn't know!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:06:51
EID:959c 219688c0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 c27c4364
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ac1625f1
On (09 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Marty Leipzig...
FR> It ties into his belief in his alien space gods.
It doesn't mean I believe they exist, as I've never seen any
evidence that such aliens does exist. How hard is this to
understand? I just happen to agree with Carl Sagan when he said:
"Odds favor the existence of life elsewhere in the universe."
FR> He doesn't want the origin of life to begin with Earth (and he
FR> confuses evolution with the origin of life still) so he places
FR> it into the hands of alien space gods.
Correction. There are scientist who claim that life couldn't have
got started on the Earth alone. And they have given very compelling
reasons why not!
FR> He wants to think that since organic compounds are common to
FR> extra-Earth objects, his gods are possible.
It was Carl Sagan was the one who said that organic material are
abundant in space. Not I! Although I happen to agree with him. Do
you have a problem with that?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Shelby though wrong as usual!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:04
EID:d045 219688e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 9d85a3f2
REPLY: 1:123/67 32aedab7
On (11 Dec 96) Shelby Sherman wrote to Fredric Rice...
SS> That's funny, I thought he was a fundie shit for brains.
Typical wrong way Shelby got it wrong again. I'm an agnostic who
happens to agree with Carl Sagan.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Danny boy takes Wolff out of context again and again!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:19
EID:7c7b 219688e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 116fc95c
REPLY: 1:105/40.667 edc7673d
On (14 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Coridon Henshaw...
BW>> I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
CH> Billboy sure got that part right...
DC> Yet another line to be added to the FAQ, for sure!
Ah... Danny boy takes Wolff out of context just one more time. Just
to set the story straight. I was talking to dipshit Martin Goldberg:
Area: HOLYSMOKE
Date: 07 Dec 96 03:51:37
From: Bill Wolff
To: Martin Goldberg
Subject: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
MG> If you weren't a creationist,
But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
MG> you'd take a lot more exception to those than Mine or
MG> Sherman's.
Maybe, but that still doesn't cover up that you are a stupid little
moron! Why can't you even get the simple facts straight, shit for
brains?
*****
Clearly I was referring to Martin as shit for brains. But of course
you people don't want to look at this intelligently, but rather look
at it as dumb as you can. And here I am, Bill Wolff exposing your
foolishness over and over again! Don't you people have any shame?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Rice the dumb one!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:30
EID:d298 219688e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 8c86869b
On (16 Dec 96) DAVID RICE wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG...
DR> I just received three messages from the clueless little fundy
DR> shit (multi-redundant). In each, his ONLY reply to every other
DR> statement of fact I uttered was on the level of "dick breath,"
DR> "shit head," and "ass hole." His method of "argument" reminds
DR> me of first grade when the teacher was out of the room.
Sorry Rice... I tried talking to you intelligently and that doesn't
work because you get all confused. Such as confusing me as a theist
for example. So I have to talk down to your level to try to get you
to understand. And so far, it appears to be working. As you are
finally starting to get the idea. Isn't that so, dick head?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Rice has his head...
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:35
EID:4e20 219688e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 4ec9784b
On (16 Dec 96) DAVID RICE wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG...
DR> As you have no doubt observed, Fundies of all stripes have
DR> vision problems.
Of course! Same goes for dick heads like you!
DR> Liar Wolff here can't seem to see any of the score of posts
DR> quoting him attempting to paint Prof. Carl Sagan as a
DR> Creationist (or in Liar Wolff's vernacular, a "creationists").
Poor old Rice has failed miserably to present even the smallest
amount of evidence, when I supposedly called Sagan a creationist.
Thus, poor piss ant Rice only believes by his faith and not by
evidence. Which brings us back to Rice acting just like fundy. A
fundy who has visionary problems and sees shit that ain't there.
Isn't this so, dick head Rice?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 115/769 15 2 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice, the confused one!
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:45
EID:ae87 219688e0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 edd2ff40
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ae8919b9
On (14 Dec 96) Fredric Rice wrote to Marty Leipzig...
FR> His background appears to be Catholic.
Until the eighth grade anyway.
FR> He appears to have "rebelled" against jis parent's religion
Correction: My Dad is an agnostic.
FR> but also opted to go all the way and "rebell" against science.
Correction: I agree with Carl Sagan.
FR> Being told that his Catholic religion was "scientific" in the
FR> past would go a long way toward explaining why he's so
FR> anti-science.
Pure bullshit from Rice, the fuck face himself!
FR> But that contradicts his typeing in religious tracts somewhat.
FR> If he's so rabid against Authority, why is he typeing in his
FR> master's religious tracts?
Correction: I type in Carl Sagan quotes, who seems to have a sense
of the truth. Got a problem with science and scientists, dick head
Rice? Btw, learn to use a spell checker, okay? You'll elevate your
standards some. Heck, any increment should make your day for a dick
head like you.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: