God Damned Fundies!
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:16:41
EID:4648 21989200
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c0513e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc488
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about NEVER BE GODLY:
AS> But reincarnation doesn't work unless you can remember previous
AS> lessons....or lives, in this case.
LB> Why? I don't recall learning how to walk or talk, or how to control
my
LB> bladder ...yet the lesson stays with me.
AS> Good point.
:) thank you.
As far as I have heard, that's how the idea of reincarnation works...between
lives, you know what you've learned, what you still need to learn, minus
the
emotionality and vagaries of physical existance that lead us to be blind
to
ourselves.
You choose your lessons, set your path. Failure to learn a lesson means
you
will continue, through life after life after life until you get it right.
Then onto the next lesson.
I would think, in such a context, remaining aware of the circumstances of
all the other lessons would be distracting rather than helpful, rather like
daydreaming about the novel being read in Lit. class during a math exam...
thinking about it is not, in itself a BAD thing, simply inappropriate at
that
moment, since it keeps you from devoting yourself to the task at hand.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... A lost ounce of gold may be found, a lost moment of time never.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:22:30
EID:904d 219892c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c0513f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc489
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about Warring Christanic Factions:
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
AS> Odd. You're the only one who seems to have drawn that conclusion,
AS> including Mike himself.
Odd. As of the moment you wrote the above, you hadn't spoken with Michael
at all on the matter, one way or another. God tell you what his take on
it was?
Oh, and I've already gotten one comment suggesting it was a bit of underkill
to call it subtle. Your barometer for knowing what everyone thinks doesn't
seem to work so well, Al.
Now, explain to me this....would it be accurate to conclude from this that,
when you point to someone being in some sort of agreement with you - whether
it be a person here, or a literary reference - that to you, SILENCE on the
matter indicates agreement with whatever you are seeking support for?
LB> Guess, THAT sort of statement is as standard as "why are you so
LB> bitter".
AS> Not at all. I'm overjoyed that Marilyn, for instance, is speaking to
AS> him again.
Cool. Doubt she had your joy in mind at all. What does that comment have
to do
with the statement of mine directly preceeding it?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ I've just finished my brute force solution to subtlety.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Lupus
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:30:15
EID:0c44 219893c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05140
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 728455ba
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Martin were killing time yakking about Lupus:
LB> Please tell your friend to contact the Lupus Foundation, or her
LB> doctor to see about support groups that will offer her REAL
LB> information, and an ear when she needs to voice her
LB> frustrations.
MG> I did my dissertation in the field of autoimmune disease. Lupus is
Ah, where were you ten years ago when some sparky happy person told me
"Don't worry...nowadays, living 5 years after diagnosis is possible for
almost
50%!!" Not what you want to hear 6 months after getting married and still
watching your kids get used to the new guy.
MG> something that can kill, but can also remit for along periods of time.
MG> As long as the anti nuclear antibody remains constant and the pattern
MG> does not change, things can remain fairly status quo.
*nod* Exactly. When it's bad it's REAL bad...but having those around you
already mentally burying you doesn't make it real easy to fight it. Stress
doesn't CAUSE lupus, but it can worsen the symptoms, and lupus patients
need
all their resources to fight the disease. Finding for one's place in daily
life shouldn't be what one has to do with one's own family.
MG> If she wants to remain barefoot and pregnant, Lupus almost always
MG> remits during pregnancy, but you gotta be pretty desperate to take
MG> that route.
hehe...I can attest to the salutary effects of pregnancy on the symptoms,
however I found out the hard way that its not always so kind to the child.
Babies of lupus patients tend to be low birth weight...stupid immune system
tries to fight the KID too. My last was spared, at large expense, from
the
long term effects by being monitored and delivered early, as soon as she
was
developmentally ready for it. She gained weight faster after birth than
she
would have had she remained in the womb for the full 9 months.
Now....what positive effects do being barefoot have on lupus? ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Jesus is in my heart and owes me three months back rent.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:42:25
EID:908a 21989540
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05141
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32bec773
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Don were killing time yakking about Warring christanic factio:
LB> LOL! Were I a kept woman, I would INSIST on lots more baubles than I
LB> currently have. (G)
DM> Which goes far to explain why so many men succomb to
DM> matrimony, the cheapskates!
Now, ain't that the truth! (I should be nice until i see what's under the
tree for me..)
LB> You can thank Katherine, Judith and a few others for insisting on
LB> gossiping in IRC about the latest batch of wierdos - had to come see
LB> for myself. ;)
DM> Check out my personal pet, Nate Cookson. I am thinking
DM> of entering him as "Best of Breed."
hehe...I hear there's a church in Texas looking to buy some pedigreed mutts
on the cheap. If you sell him to them, would that be a "good thing"?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Flowers: A gift bought by a friend who ate the chocolate.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:47:26
EID:1b1a 219895e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05142
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32bdf8ce
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Doug were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
LB> make that neato rather than neto and 6667 will work.
DL> It was a typo. It works now.
:) figured as much.
DL> Well, I just upgraded to Mirc v4.6 and it works fine. The only
DL> problem now seems to be that everytime I go into the channel....now
a
DL> soul there.
when are you going in? anytime from about 8:30 pm eastern should get you
someone in there. It's #holysmoke.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Now switching all channels to 700 Club.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:56:54
EID:b19d 21989700
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05143
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32be07bd
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
DAVID and Steve were killing time yakking about 'Atheists who do no good:
SQ> Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
DR> [The following is smilie-captioned for the humor-impared]
DR> MISTER Quarrella, you are hereby ORDERED to cease and
DR> desist with doing any and all Good Things immediately!
SQ> I am -so- ashamed!
Feeling shame is also reserved for the Christians. Knock it off!
;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Aural sex gives me an earie feeling.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:12:53
EID:a4c1 21989980
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05144
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc466
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Al were killing time yakking about ask and ye shall rece:
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
AS> Yep. There's that. One can make a better case if one proofreads and
AS> goes back and tries to iron out inconsistencies.
Commonly referred to as "spin doctoring".
If your case was as strong as you insist it is, why are there so many
inconsistancies to try to iron out?
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
AS> As you will. Although I notice that Mike also seemed to think this
AS> was a better forum for such.
heheh...what is this obsession you have with tossing names about to back
up
what you say?
1. Michael acknowledged that it is a better forum for YOU to work within.
Judith could as easily suggest that he was, in his own words, backing up
her view. IRC works quite well for the sharing of ideas...it only becomes
difficult to those whose agenda is to be RIGHT, rather than to engage in
give and take.
2. Who do you think it impresses when you always toss off one of our names
as being in agreement with you? The person to whom you are speaking? In
most
cases, no, as that person has either already read the same comment you have,
or has spoken on the matter to the person in question. And in any case,
none
here set their opinions according to who agrees with them. It is also
unimpressive to the person BEING named - a matter that has often come under
discussion between those of us so 'chosen'.
It only impresses you, al. why do you continue to do it?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Al's Vet & Taxidermy: Either way, you get your dog back.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:22:35
EID:8970 21989ac0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05145
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ROBERT and Al were killing time yakking about Bacteria and Evolution.:
AS> To say that God allows natural law to shape us does not say
AS> He didn't necessarily interfere at certain times on a more
AS> individual level. If I devise a schedule for my children to
AS> do things, that doesn't mean I can't break that schedule
AS> myself when I feel the need warrants it, for instance.
RC>
RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
RC> miraculous intervention.
RC>
RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
AS> The best, I think.
AS> Most of the miracles which are at the heart of my religion, concern
AS> Death and Resurrection. They are not exceptions (however rarely they
AS> occur) nor irrelavancies. It is precisely on such great subjects that
AS> the whole story of mankind turns. (Which may explain why a
AS> dying/reborn god is a almost-universal belief, as Campbell showed so
AS> much in A HERO OF A THOUSAND FACES.) The whole story hinges on Death
AS> and Resurrection. It's a long story, with a complicated plot...yet
AS> hints are given us throughout history (in the form of those Corn-King
AS> myths) until it finds its culmination in someone dying and being
AS> reborn NOT in a mythical Golden Age, a historical never-never land,
AS> but in a decade which can roughly be dated and whose followers were
AS> definitely active as little to twenty to thirty years later. And the
AS> subject of Death and Resurrection necessarily involves us all, the
AS> abused and the abuser, the poor and the rich, the intelligent and the
AS> mentally challenged. For we all must face death.
How does that even remotely address what Robert asked?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Die Jesu Domine, Domine Es Requium." (WHACK!). Repeat as necessary.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: North Pole Downsizing
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:37:57
EID:6bb4 219854a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f2
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
RE: North Pole Downsizing
North Pole Downsizing.
The recent announcement that Donner and Blitzen have elected
to take the early reindeer retirement package has triggered a
good deal of concern about whether they will be replaced, and
about other restructuring decisions at the North Pole.
Streamlining was appropriate in view of the reality that the
North Pole no longer dominates the season's gift distribution
business. Home shopping channels and mail order catalogues
have diminished Santa's market share and the North Pole Board
could not sit idly by and permit further erosion of the
profit picture.
The reindeer downsizing was made possible through the
purchase of a late model Japanese sled for the CEO's annual
trip. Improved productivity from Dasher and Dancer, who
summered at the MIT Diemer Business School, is anticipated
and should take up the slack with no discernible loss of
service. Reduction in reindeer will also lessen airborne
environmental emissions for which the North Pole has been
cited and received unfavorable press.
I am pleased to inform you and yours that Rudolph's role will
not be disturbed. Tradition still counts for something at
the North Pole. Management denies, in the strongest possible
language, the earlier leak that Rudolph's nose got that way
not from the cold, but from substance abuse. Calling Rudolph
"a lush who was into the sauce and never did pull his share
of the load" was an unfortunate comment, made by one of
Santa's helpers and taken out of context at a time of year
when he is known to be under executive stress.
Effective immediately, the following economy measures are to
take place in the "Twelve Days of Christmas" subsidiary:
- The partridge will be retained, but the pear tree never
turned out to be the cash crop forecasted. It will be
replaced by a plastic hanging plant, providing
considerable savings in maintenance.
- The two turtle doves represent a redundancy that is simply
not cost effective. In addition, their romance during
working hours could not be condoned. The positions are
therefore eliminated.
- The three French hens will remain intact. After all,
everyone loves the French.
- The four calling birds were replaced by an automated voice
mail system, with a call waiting option. An analysis is
underway to determine who the birds have been calling, how
often and how long they talked.
- The five golden rings have been put on hold by the Board
of Directors. Maintaining a portfolio based on one
commodity could have negative implications for
institutional investors. Diversification into other
precious metals as well as a mix of T-Bills and high
technology stocks appear to be in order.
- The six geese-a-laying constitutes a luxury which can no
longer be afforded. It has long been felt that the
production rate of one egg per goose per day is an example
of declining productivity. Three geese will be let go, and
an upgrading in the goose selection procedure will assure
management that from now on every goose it gets will be a
good one.
- The seven swans-a-swimming was obviously a number chosen
in better times. The function is primarily decorative;
therefore, five mechanical swans are on order to replace
the seven live swans. This will provide a tighter swim
circle, thus saving space...consistant with our new,
smaller headquarters building and modular furniture
concept. Current swans will be temporarily retrained with
new strokes to enhance performance prior to their out
placement.
- The eight maids-a-milking concept, as you're aware, has
been under heavy scrutiny by the EEOC. A male/female
balance in the workforce is being sought. The more vocal
maids consider this a dead-end job with no upward
mobility. Automation of the process may permit maids
a-mending or a-mentoring options.
- Nine ladies dancing has always been an odd number. This
function will be phased out immediately as these
individuals have grown older and can no longer do the
steps. Early voluntary separation incentives and/or
special separation benefit exit bonuses will be offered
that will greatly reduce the cost of paying full
retirement to these individuals.
- Ten Lords-a-leaping is overkill. The high cost of Lords
plus the expense of international air travel prompted the
Compensation Committee to suggest replacing this group
with ten out-of-work congressmen. While leaping ability
may be somewhat sacrificed, the savings are significant
because we expect an oversupply of unemployed congressmen
this year.
- Eleven pipers piping and,
- Twelve drummers drumming is a simple case of the band
getting too big. Outsourcing and privatization with a
string quartet, a cutback on new music and no uniforms
will produce enormous savings which should drop us right
down to the bottom line.
We can expect a substantial reduction in assorted people,
fowl, animals, HQ North Pole size, office space, and other
expenses. Though incomplete, initial studies also indicate
that stretching deliveries over twelve days has been
inefficient. Plans for one day drop shipments will greater
improve customer service levels.
Regarding the lawsuit filed by the attorney's association
seeking North Pole expansion to include the Pole's legal
office, "thirteen lawyers-a-suing" action is still pending.
Today's global challenges require the North Pole to continue
to look for better, more competitive steps. Future
restructuring is not beyond consideration since deeper cuts
may be necessary to stay competitive. (Inside trading
information on downsizing the seven dwarfs in Disney's Snow
White Division has again given us the edge we needed)
Finally, our new Manpower and Quality office will be
presenting our North Pole Strategic Plan next year (only a
few days away!) as we continue to consolidate, refine,
streamline, outsource, privatize, and build the Most
Efficient and Effective Organization (MEO) possible. New
initiatives are underway to review and reengineer every North
Pole activity...stay tuned for updates!
-- Himself
---
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: The X (mas) Files
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:47:13
EID:1e4d 219855e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f4
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
by Frank Cammuso and Hart Seely
We're too late! It's already been here.
Mulder, I hope you know what you're doing.
Look, Scully, just like the other homes: Douglas fir,
truncated, mounted, transformed into a shrine; halls decked
with boughs of holly; stockings hung by the chimney, with
care.
You really think someone's been here?
Someone, or something.
Mulder, over here-it's a fruitcake.
Don't touch it! Those things can be lethal.
It's O.K. There's a note attached: "Gonna find out who's
naughty and nice."
It's judging them, Scully. It's making a list.
Who? What are you talking about?
Ancient mythology tells of an obese humanoid entity who
could travel at great speed in a craft powered by antlered
servants. Once each year, near the winter solstice, this
creature is said to descend from the heavens to reward its
followers and punish disbelievers with jagged chunks of
antracite.
But that's legend, Mulder-a story told by parents to
frighten children. Surely you don't believe it?
Something was here tonight, Scully. Check out the bite
marks on this gingerbread man. Whatever tore through this
plate of cookies was massive-and in a hurry.
It left crumbs everywhere. And look, Mulder, this milk
glass has been completely drained.
It gorged itself, Scully. It fed without remorse.
But why would they leave it milk and cookies?
Appeasement. Tonight is the Eve, and nothing can stop its
wilding.
But if this thing does exist, how did it get in? The
doors and windows were locked. There's no sign of forced
entry.
Unless I miss my guess, it came through the fireplace.
Wait a minute, Mulder. If you're saying some huge
creature landed on the roof and came down this chimney,
you're crazy. The flue is barely six inches wide. Nothing
could get down there.
But what if it could alter its shape, move in all
directions at once?
You mean, like a bowl full of jelly?
Exactly. Scully, I've never told anyone this, but when I
was a child my home was visited. I saw the creature. It had
long white shanks of fur surrounding its ruddy, misshapen
head. Its bloated torso was red and white. I'll never
forget the horror. I turned away, and when I looked back it
had somehow taken on the facial features of my father.
Impossible.
I know what I saw. And that night it read my mind. It
brought me a Mr. Potato Head, Scully. It knew that I wanted
a Mr. Potato Head!
I'm sorry, Mulder, but you're asking me to disregard the
laws of physics. You want me to believe in some supernatural
being who soars across the skies and brings gifts to good
little girls and boys. Listen to what you're saying. Do you
understand the repercussions? If this gets out, they'll close
the X-files.
Scully, listen to me: It know when you're sleeping. It
knows when you're awake.
But we have no proof.
Last year, on this exact date, SETI radio telescopes
detected bogeys in the airspace over twenty-seven states.
The White House ordered a Condition Red.
But that was a meteor shower.
Officially. Two days ago, eight prized Scandinavian
reindeer vanished from the National Zoo, in Washington, D.C.
Nobody-not even the zookeeper-was told about it. The
government doesn't want people to know about Project Kringle.
They fear that if this thing is proved to exist the public
will stop spending half its annual income in a holiday
shopping frenzy. Retail markets will collapse. Scully, they
cannot let the world believe this creature lives. There's
too much at stake. They'll do whatever it takes to insure
another silent night.
Mulder, I-
Sh-h-h. Do you hear what I hear?
On the roof. It sounds like...a clatter.
The truth is up there. Let's see what's the matter.
--
________________________________________________________
Rich Petersen rich@netco.com
Manager, Systems Integration 612.204.3100
NetCo Communications Corp http://www.wam.net
333 N Washington Ave, Suite 102 (fax)612.204.3101
Minneapolis, MN 55401, USA (toll free)800.611.9006
________________________________________________________
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:12:19
EID:5e96 21986980
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f5
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd4
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to Martin Goldberg <:(
CG> As to arguing from a particular side of the fence; sorry I
CG> don't have one, in this echo, if you want to tackle sides of
CG> a fence then I suggest a Debate echo - but frankly I find
This IS a debate echo, Chris.
CG> most arguements boring, largely because most protagionists
CG> spend more time argueing about the spelling, punctuation and
CG> grammar than about the ideas supposedly being debated.
CG> I am a NON-DEIST, which means that I have NO belief in the
CG> existence of a 'God' or 'gods'.
CG> {Incidentally, those people claiming to be atheists, are
CG> claiming, by their definition of themselves, not to believe
CG> in a single God, but must believe in multiple gods. People
Why must they?
CG> who have no belief in any form of God or gods are
CG> non-deists.}
And you claim to be English? Atheist breaks down to a-
(without) -theis- (roughly . . . but meaning Deity) -ist (one
who is). I've fudge the breakup a bit, but by definition an
Atheist is one without beliefs in a Deity. Check Websters.
BTW, there are others here who are neither Atheists nor
Xtians. FYI.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Chris Green Text
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:17:44
EID:fa91 21986a20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f7
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd6
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to All <:(
CG> Greetings.
Hiya, Chris.
CG> Let us all understand one thing, we all sit at our terminals
CG> and we receive text, via whatever software we happen to use.
So?
CG> The text is the only thing that we can see; thus, the only
CG> aspect of a person's input, that has relavence is what is on
CG> the screen.
Again, so?
CG> I don't care how qualified you think you are or how many
CG> things you have done in your life, it has no relavence if
CG> what you are writing is a pile of bovine excreta - write
CG> bullshit, and that is precisely what you will receive in
CG> return.
As to posting being bullshit, if your writing leads me in that
direction, then that is your fault and not mine. The only way
I have of reading you is by means of your typing.
I've been paying attention.
CG> Being English, I expect people to read my messages before
CG> they start to answer them.
Same as we do. So?
CG> Often I ask rhetorical questions - these do not require
CG> answering.
Then don't ask them here . . . otherwise, you will get
answers. It's THAT kind of place.
CG> Other times I put forward a series of of questions, which I
CG> then answer as part of a series of ideas that I have been
CG> thinking about.
So you ask your own `of of' questions just so you can answer
them yourself. Isn't that a bit like wanking?
CG> Often I put forward suggestions, which have come from my own
CG> brain, by the use of original thought and cogitation - I am
CG> sorry if this is beyond your capabilities or comprehension
CG> that someone is able to do this.
Sorry, Tory . . . this is begging the question.
CG> I argue from a basis of 'cause and effect' and expect other
CG> people to be able to do likewise.
We may or we may not. Nothing you can do will change it.
CG> Equally I expect people to be able to argue their way
CG> through a subject and to be able to think about possible
CG> conclusions arising from the discussion.
As do we. Are you going to start first?
CG> From what I have seen so far, only the voluble Mr McCullough
CG> has some speck of originality to him.
And your point is?
CG> Next, I do not find it necessary, in the main, to read the
CG> works of others, to come to conclusions, or to have ideas.
That's in keeping with what we've read of you so far.
CG> I prefer to work solely from 'Source Data' and thus form my
CG> own conclusions and provide my own summaries.
Fine. Your point?
CG> Ego: I know who I am and what I am, and I have no illusions
CG> about myself. Likewise, I see no reason in false-modesty, I
CG> am highly intelligent, very flexible, successful in whatever
CG> I do.
Shouldn't that have been `Ergo?' One would expect a
self-important person with an IQ (Irritation Quotient) of 174
to know the difference. Or was that a Freudian slip?
And your point in all of this, other than to have us be
impressed by you?
CG> If this is preceived as 'Big-Headed' that's OK, just
CG> remember that how you phrase your remarks tells me more
CG> about the writer, than the person they write about.
No, it doesn't. You yourself said:
"The text is the only thing that we can see; thus, the only
aspect of a person's input, that has relavence is what is
on the screen."
Now you may think you know us from what we write, but so far
we've seen some bad guesses on your part, and some real
boners.
CG> IQ: 174, tested by MENSA, an organisation I do not belong
CG> to, since I found that it was full of 'social
CG> dysfunctionals'.
Yawn. Me too. Your point?
Have I ever told you my theory of dick size, Chris? There
are men who HAVE big dicks, and then there are men who SAY
they have big dicks.
CG> Brief personal history:
I feel a nap attack sneaking up on me . . .
CG> Time-served Master Stonemason;
I once had a dog named Brownie.
CG> then served 12 years in the British Army;
I like blueberry syrup on my pancakes.
CG> disabled during service as a result of an explosion;
I have a cowlick.
CG> following service I have owned and run 3
CG> businesses in the stone and building trades;
I run one household and am, in turn, run ragged by two
children and a wife.
CG> currently run a charity,
I just put a load of clothes in the dryer.
CG> and am a councellor for people with MPD and similar
CG> psychotic illnesses, also run a self-help group for people
CG> who have clinical depression.
Gee, then one would assume that you had the ability to talk
TO people, and not down at them. Ah, but we're not paying
you, are we?
CG> In between this I am a Fellow
CG> of the Institute of Administrative and Supervisory
CG> Management;
I used to pick my nose when I was a child, but I stopped.
CG> Fellow Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators;
I still think Barbara Eden is a sexpot.
CG> Honours Degree in Science and Technology (Open University);
I learned 10-Key from Lincoln Training Center. I have yet to
use it in any employed position too. Maybe I'll go back to
school.
CG> currently working on my Master's Thesis:
I'm about ready to make lunch. I think we'll have some
pickle loaf sandwiches. Thanks to your Earl, btw, for that
lovely invention.
CG> 'Migratory Populations of Liverpool'.
Mostly out?
CG> Have published 3
CG> volumes of poetry: 'Poems in my Knapsack'; 'Soldier's
CG> Diary'; 'Tank'.
TANK? ROFLMGDAO . . . hey everyone, it's a TLP plant!
I've published a bit too. And I firmly believe that, when
taking a dump, it's not over until you finish the paperwork.
CG> I paint and sell my pictures; sculpt in stone; garden.
I annoy people, act as a heavy weight to keep furniture from
blowing away, and have been known to sleep sitting up.
CG> Disablement caused by an explosion of petrol jerricans while
CG> trying to unload a burning lorry.
Man, that Appletoon is touchy, isn't he? She? Whatever . . .
CG> Spinal damage from L1
CG> down, and from C3 up; nerve damage resulting in no feeling
CG> in arms and legs; 80% deaf; loss of senses of taste and
CG> smell; trigeminal and migrainous neuralgia; myaclonic jerks;
CG> some speech difficulty; chronic pain in joints as now have
CG> osteo-arthritis; short-term memory problems with associated
CG> conceptual difficulties; clinical depression. Occasionally
CG> use a wheelchair.
For what? BTW, did you want violin music with that?
CG> Thus you can see that I have no time for whimps, whiners, or
CG> other ineffectual people.
And again, your point is . . . ?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:59:28
EID:99ab 21987760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036450
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7291aae4
};> Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to Marty Leipzig <:(
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
ML> ... In memorium. Dr. Carl Sagan, 1934-1996. "He touched
MG> But he didn't touch Billy Wolff.
That's true . . . Bill Wolff was apparently already `touched.'
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:02:04
EID:772c 21987840
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036451
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72924afd
};> Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to Steve Quarrella <:(
SQ> ROFL! I'm -way- overdue to rent that one again. I just about
SQ> fell out of my chair when they started talking about the
SQ> "Chocolate Monk."
MG> Which is?
Sammy Davis Jr.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:26:32
EID:9297 21987b40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036452
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5C438D
};> Michael Hardy wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
RS> Nor does Al remember being weaned . . . yet I bet he doesn't
RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
MH> Yeah, I'm sure he has a much better cover story than that
MH> ... ;-)
Groper imitations?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: archived holysmoke
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:02
EID:57cb 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 99008607
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 05:05pm, MICHAEL HARDY wrote to DAVID RICE:
DR>> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
DR>> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
DR>> in each.
MH> fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
Sounds like a marital art.
... Just "stringing" you along. . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1447
* Silver Xpress V4.00
/
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: darkness
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:03
EID:974f 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900867e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 09:52am, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to BRETT JOHNSON:
GT> before now. And what DID happen to St. "what does it matter if he
GT> tarries until I return" John.
Pretty amusing the attempts to reconcile that. First,
there is the assumption that he was the "beloved disciple" of
GJohn. ("See, Jesus liked me best!")
Anyhow, he supposedly dug his grave and had people throw
dirt over him. However, to reconcile this with GJohn's promise of
the return, the claim was made that you could see the dirt moving
up and down at Epheseus with his breathing.
CURTIS JOHNSON
... Guten Tag!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1447
* Silver Xpress V4.00
X
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Boring moron
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:04
EID:4ac6 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 990086f5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
From your "messages" in my last packet:
in your stupid dreams and also with those that I call morons.
Look oh stupid one. You're the moron with the problem, not I! You
repeatedly ask you and other morons to present prove for your
are a dumb stupid liar and a moron to boot.
are untrainable, stupid and lifelong morons, which an intelligent
you morons can someday evolve enough to crawl out of that hole you
Ah... only in your dreams, moron!
You're the one with the short memory moron. And how about proving
moron with the short memory!
damn moron you turned out to be. How sad!
the stupidest moron I know too.
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
I'm innocent because I am innocent you little moron! You continue
you morons are just stupid fools who clearly fail to even I did
already answer your slanderous question, Mr. Moron Fredric.
are just a stupid moron who fails to get anything straight. How
you little moron!
You're the morons who needs help. My intellectual superiors like
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
crap that ain't there. Like most moron do.
acting like a true moron like you do.
like to destroy things. Come on Fredric the moron... can't you
Fredric
Rice the moron.
response from those stupid brainwashed morons.
a damn moron like you.
Ah... the best of Marty the moron. How cute!
You also comprehend like a moron 5 year old too. How cute!
Sorry my poor moron,
him in the ass. Boy you are really stupid, aren't you the moron?
morons who claims that God is dead. My conversation has nothing to
you damn moron!
damn moron that he is. How cute!
nothing but a fucked up moron.
you damn stupid moron! I swear you have no common sense at all. I
Jastrow, you damn moron. You fail to understand this, yes I have
You like always, prove what a total moron you
stupid moron you have shown all of us you are.
Marty, the complete moron.
But poor damn morons like you just can't
yet figure it all out. You morons are really sad.
I explain it so simple that even a moron like you should
moron! It only shows how you damn stupid morons can't comprehend
what you read. It's just that simple, moron!
And only a moron such like yourself would ever
make you stupid morons to use your brains for once and
you morons are just to damn stupid to take part in intelligent
fucking morons like yourself, dumb shit!
like always, you morons never get even close to the truth. You poor
damn bad you morons are just to damn stupid to see the truth, ain't
it shit head! I really getting tired of you morons playing your
repeatably shown you people to be total morons over and over again.
over again to remove all doubt, moron!
And both of you are acting like total morons.
I swear I've never seen such a bunch of
nonthinking morons in my life.
Btw, Bill Wolff was telling you morons that he's an
You have the honor of being the occasion for the coining of
a new portmanteau word:
Wolff, you are a boron.
... Dumb enough to hunt rabbit for food with dum-dums.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:05
EID:422c 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900876c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
RV>> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
RV>> ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ>> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
MH> You can be Comma King if you like. I warn you, though, it's a heavy
MH> burden. :-)
No, thanks. As a lazy man, I prefer being Coma King.
... Pot nut. You're trusts, djinn; spill chukkas!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: al's bluster
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:06
EID:c01d 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 990087e3
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> He quoted very extensively from you, the original.
RC>
AS>> Curtis. I WROTE the original. And you may have noticed a tendency
AS>> of me to make LOOONG posts. I know what I wrote and what was
AS>> quoted. Now, you may believe what you want...but a simple question
AS>> to Curry would have answered whether he quoted my every word.
RC>
RC> Is it just that I'm paying more attention to Al's bluster lately, or
RC> has there been an actual increase in the number of strawmen he creates?
RC> Obviously, you did not claim I quoted his "every word."
Yep. One reason I finally became fed up.
AS>> He didn't.
RC>
RC> Though I could, what would be the point? Your remark that I quoted
RC> extensively is correct, btw.
RC>
RC> If you would like to see the junk email Al sent, just let me know.
Sure. Should I send you my e-mail address by netmail?
Since he kept handing me the patented "There are secret
messages that would clear me if you only knew" line, I don't see
any problem.
I'm also curious to see what I spared myself by not giving
him my e-mail address.
CJ>> I don't think I've had any misconceptions about you.
RC>
RC> But I certainly have:
RC>
RC>
RC> I once thought that Al could be trusted to be reasonable and also
RC> to refrain from making up strawman positions for those people
RC> with whom he has disagreements.
RC>
RC> My assumptions on that matter were clearly incorrect.
RC>
RC> The evidence has become crystal clear over the last month or two,
RC> as you have no doubt noticed yourself.
Yep.
As you probably already noticed, I just suffered from an OD
of Al, and snapped.
I think it's no coincidence that he harps on the "proof by
martyrdom" so much in his apologetics.
... Space is nothing but elbow room.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:07
EID:6fa2 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900885a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 10:09am, STEVE HAYES wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
JB>> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
SH>
SH>> Answer the question, fascist.
JB>> 1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh well, I must
be
JB>> doing something right. There's another one here who calls me a
JB>> LIBERAL.
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
... So many messages, so few megs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: CHRISTIANS V GUNS
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:21:00
EID:d95d 21984aa0
-=> Quoting John Musselwhite to Marty Leipzig <=-
JM> In some ways I'd like to see a return of the old days when
JM> everyone over the age of 16 carried a gun and knew how to use
JM> it. Not only would it weed the country of low-life who have no
JM> respect for others, but it would make for a very polite
JM> society.
HEY! That was -MY- idea.
Actually, I would make it a legal requirement that all adults carry
a sidearm and be required to use it whenever a criminal act was
observed.
I would further extend that to say that any criminal would be deprived
of his weapon and would be fair game thereafter.
... Cthulhu in '96. Why vote for the LESSER evil?
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: DANNY BOY TAKES WOLFF
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:25:00
EID:4f7c 21984b20
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to Dan Ceppa <=-
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
BW> Clearly I was referring to Martin as shit for brains. But of course
BW> you people don't want to look at this intelligently, but rather look
BW> at it as dumb as you can. And here I am, Bill Wolff exposing your
BW> foolishness over and over again! Don't you people have any shame?
Clearly you were referring to yourself above. Otherwise you
would have said "I'm an agnostic, shit for brains!"
Recent high school student, are you?
... Me.. a skeptic? I trust you have evidence.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 23 Dec 96 17:13:00
EID:7895 219789a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> The author is informed at one point that this is his 676th life (or
RH> close to that number, I don't have the book before me).
AS> I wonder what determines when you start a first life...
I don't think I've ever seen that mentioned. Creation, I suppose...
AS> Ever read "The Sign" by Lord Dunsany? Where a guy, very conceited,
Surprisingly enough, yes, I have.
AS> crawled the wall and started making the sign. The younger man stayed
AS> there for a hour or two, and the snail left a trail that executed the
AS> sign as clear as could be.
You left out the point, which was that the man made a habit of killing
snails, to release their souls for the next incarnation.
RH> 20 million. Or God destroying EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH, with
RH> a few exceptions. Now THERE'S real depravity IMHO.
AS> If that were the end, it might be. But I don't think it is.
Even worse, all those killed get to fry forever. An even greater
depravity IMHO.
... Sorry, the Dog ate my Blue Wave packet.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:16:00
EID:043b 21979200
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> You keep asserting that they COULD be different. Why?
AS> Because if there are no higher laws, no metalaws, no supernature,
AS> there is
AS> nothing to constrain them. You can look at that idea...that they
AS> could not
AS> be different...in two different ways. That this is the only logically
AS> self-consistent universe possible...which seems contradicted by what
AS> we can devise in model universes....or that we happen to have these
AS> constants
AS> by total chance. Interesting chances.
Or, more correctly, that the constants describe the fundamental nature
of matter/energy and thus can have NO other values.
AS> How is that different from someone in the Dark Ages saying, "I don't
AS> see how the sun could NOT rise in the morning, and even if it could
do
AS> differently, it doesn't, so it is a moot point"? I think the
AS> question is still worth asking.
But you keep coming up with the wrong ANSWER! God is not an answer.
He is a cop-out. For example the everything has a cause argument.
You then say Well, God is the First Cause and He is an exception
to the rule. He has no cause. Cop-out.
AS> Would you rather I believe the religious stuff without a logical
AS> starting point?
Yes. Then you wouldn't keep pestering us with nonsense.
RH> no matter how abrasive I may seem at times.
AS> I know that, Roger. You're one of the better people here. Take care.
And you, as well, no matter what everyone else says here!
... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:44:00
EID:e384 21979580
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Al Schroeder <=-
JB> and which is not completely "subjective." Don't ask God to do what
He
JB> either cannot, or has not ever been observed doing. Gross physical
JB> "Miracles" don't happen; but "Providence" may 'happen all the time.'
JB> (You're merely "empiricizing Providence" with this "test for God.")
JB> (By the way, DON'T _miss_ your appointment....) (*grin*)
JB> Comments?
Ok, I'll play. "God, let me win the Colorado lottery on the first
drawing in February, 1997". Odds, 1 in about 6,000,000. And I -will-
buy a ticket for that drawing.
Put in a good word for me, John, and I'll cut you in.
... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:25:00
EID:e8a7 21979b20
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> But that's the point.
AS> If He faked it, He knows He didn't fulfill the prophecies. So God
AS> wouldn't find favor in it.
AS> IF He was NOT faking it, but hoping that God would rescue Him...why
AS> didn't
AS> He die? It's not like Roman soldiery didn'thave lots of experience
AS> seeing whether a man was dead or not...and making sure of same.
AS> Probably. He would have thought it more likely to have his legs
AS> broken, as happened to the two thieves.
Oh, no. The prophecy said his bones would not be broken. He HAD to
"die" before that could happen.
AS> Ok. Let's say He was expecting God to come rescue Him. He goes into
a
AS> deathlike coma. The others put on graveclothes on Him, and put Him in
AS> a sealed tomb.
Not sealed. They expected to come prepare his body after the Sabbath.
AS> He wakes up. Comes out of His coma. He is in a sealed tomb, so
AS> probably the air is getting rank, filled without all the fragrances
AS> with which they
AS> put on his body (from the hundred pounds of stuff, it probably
AS> smelled like a perfume factory.) He gropes around, IN THE DARK, and
AS> although a few
AS> minutes ago so near death that people thought he WAS dead...and moves
AS> a stone that is SEALED, and which two grown women of an era where a
AS> lot of women did heavy manual labor were wondering how they could
AS> move. Andrenelin? We're talking more SUPERMAN here.
We're talking outside help, here.
AS> And after that, with wounds in His feet, He walks the ten miles to
AS> Emmaneus.
May not have been him at all. He was not recognised at the time.
AS> And when the disciples see Him, they don't go, "Good grief, you're
AS> alive, but you look like death warmed over, sit down and I'll get a
AS> doctor..." instead they all want to be like His "resurrected" self.
AS> Do you believe it? I don't. I would much rather believe a
AS> Resurrection than that bad combination of clumsy writing and
AS> unbelievable situations. What might work MARGINALLY better if for
AS> JEsus to enter a deathlike coma, but stir enough to clue Joseph He was
AS> still alive. So Joseph puts Him in a special tomb which has a hidden
AS> passage that leads to Josephs's home in Jerusalem....
AS> And Joseph has doctors care for Jesus, and convinces Jesus that His
AS> survival is a miracle.
AS> That ALMOST works...unless you start to wonder why in the world
AS> Joseph had a tomb with a hidden passage. It's like all those bad
AS> movies where every castle or old house had a secret passage. It would
AS> have to be dug ahead of time....
AS> See what I mean how alternative explanations violate what we DO
AS> know about human nature and situations, whereas we have no way to
AS> evaluate the probability of a Resurrection?
I wouldn't buy that version either.
... MONEY TALKS ... but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:36:00
EID:9110 21979c80
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> post here. Wiccans do not seek converts or argue their own
RH> personal beliefs. That's why they get less flak.
GTP> Sure, as long as we don't manifest any deity belief.
Yep. Works for me.
RH> Except from me, once in awhile, just to keep things balanced.
GTP> And JJ but every side has to have it's. . .um, less desirables.
GTP>
It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
RH> Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
GTP> Just goes to show that you haven't met me yet.
Yeah, and I've seen no evidence for those supposedly divine tits
either.
.GIFs, we want .GIFs!
... This BBS has achieved Air superiority.
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PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:22:20
EID:94f6 219892c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c01fa2
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bef6ae
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Gwenny:
DM>> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM>> Defenseless here?
GTP>> Mistress if you please, or you'll feel the bite of my
GTP>> whip.
DM> Allright, _Mistress_ Defenseless, then, Shrinking Violet of the
DM> American West.
What a cute concept. . .me, shy.
GTP>> (btw, what is a WOA, I've been busy lately and haven't kept up on
GTP>> stuff.)
DM> Wicked Old Atheist, of course. You know--the people who, for the
DM> most part, do no good deeds.
What about the Wicked Young Atheist. . .does s/he do no good deeds.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Great! My cat has been cashing my reality checks again!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: stargoat crap.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:24:07
EID:b2ab 21989300
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02014
REPLY: 1:261/1137 98008574
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Curtis!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Curtis say to Gwenny:
GT>> Yeah, but she had a sex change operation sometime in the Dark Ages.
CJ> Since the The Spook and Jesus are supposedly the same, by
CJ> Staalian thinking it was because she needed a penis to urinate.
Hey, what kind of cheap ass gods do they have. Heck, even your average-every-night
vampire can survive without excreting. You'd think their omnipotent deities
could manage it.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If your god is dead, try one of mine
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:30:35
EID:f315 219893c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c021ab
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32beca02
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Gerry!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Gerry say to CHRIS:
CG>> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th, and a Good New Year.
GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid of the word
GD> Christmas and what it stands for?
I think he was trying to be courteous, since only a portion of the folks
that post here celebrate Christmas. It might have been better if he had
said Happy Holidays, since few of us celebrate our festivities on the 25th.
That is the day for Christians, Mithras worshippers, and seculars. Pagans,
Jews, etc have different days for their stuff.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Off by CRASHING COMPUTER. Time Logged: ß"¹Üµ›Èô
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: All
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:33:26
EID:4bc1 21989420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02eff
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, All!
You know, Tiggy, the mommy of my new grandson, asked me what the real topic
for this echo is, since we so seldom discuss religion. Does anyone know
what the most posted about topic is?? I mean, all you atheists don't have
anything to do for the next couple of days, so you have time to figure it
out for me, don't you?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:47:59
EID:be36 219895e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c028de
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Dan:
CG> As to being in the top 1%, yes, according to MENSA, I understand you
CG> have this organisation in America! :-)
MENSA!? MENSA?! Don't tell me that you belong to MENSA!
I've taken their test. I passed. But I've never been tempted
to join. If I was an insecure loser who wanted to sit around and try to
impress other insecure losers, I might reconsider. However, I am a very
secure just-above-average-intelligence person who doesn't think that just
being intelligence is enough. I have found that, usually, the higher a
person's IQ the less likely they are to have any social skills or common
sense. Excuse me, but I'll stick to being a merely bright person with lots
of friends who doesn't make stupid mistakes.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Work hard. Do right. Waddya get? |=\\\\\\\\>'ed.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:03:57
EID:784e 21989860
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c0294a
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Sue:
CG>> Take rock with, alleged, micro-fossils; allegedly from Mars, add to
CG>> HolySmoke, allegedly Christian, echo = .......
SA>> :) Who ever said HolySmoke was Christian? :)
CG> What? You mean all these Christian messages are fake? And Mars really
CG> doesn't exist?
Oh, I'm sure some of the fundies are for real, but the echo is owned by
the atheists. The moderator, Styx Allum, is an atheist last I heard.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I'd invite Jesus into my heart, but my blood needs the room.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:05:13
EID:f4fa 219898a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c029f6
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Marty:
CG>> And, unlike you, Mr Goldberg, I come within the top 1% of the human
CG>> race.
ML>> Based upon what benchmarks?
CG> MENSA.
How about the college entrance exams. I scored in the top 1% of all the
college bound students. . .except in Math. Like Marty, I managed to avoid
learning math in high school and paid for it later. And like Marty, they
were so impressed with my other scores they let me in anyway and gave me
a bunch of grants and scholarships.
But, as I said before, MENSA is not for me. I have a life.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Show me some more of this Earth thing called kissing. --Lister.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: text
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:10:37
EID:58e9 21989940
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02f58
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to All:
CG> Being English, I expect people to read my messages before they start
to
CG> answer them.
And, therefore, soooooo superior to us colonials. I know a number of your
fellow country wo/men who have decided to make the USA their home. You
all do seem to be a little full of yourselves. Note I say seem, as I have
not met any English person who was still living in England. (I suppose
I shall someday, when I try to track down my great grandfather's kin. Not
alot of hope, since he was a foundling on the steps of a church in Ratshillbatshill,
but I can try anyway.) I tend to be willing to forgive you all your condescending
manners, since you are responsible for Dr Who and Monte Python.
Ahhhhh, we just finished our annual Long Night Celebration. . .10 hours
of non-stop Monte Python. I was a little disappointed that we couldn't
find Eric the Viking, but we did the Meaning of Life and The Holy Grail,
so I can't complain TOO much. Oh, and the episode with the dead parrot.
I LOVE that episode.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: Cthulu Filk of Colors of the Wind
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:36:29
EID:bd5d 21989c80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c03130
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 a027c8f8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
Hey, dearie, snagged this off the Filk echo. Thought you, and some of the
other Cthulhu lovers might like this. It's actually pretty good.
a> Calling on the Wind
a> Sing to: "Colors of the Wind" from Pocahontas
a> You think you know the only god to pray to
a> And Cthulhu's just myth beneath the sea
a> But I know all the names of all the Old Ones
a> All my life, have their spirits, lived in me.
a> You think that every god must look like people
a> And not some icky thing from outer space
a> But if you walk beside Nyarlathotep
a> You'll meet things that have no face, that have no face
a> Have you ever seen the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> Or asked the cats of Ulthar why they grin?
a> Can you sing to Azathoth high in the mountains?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Come follow hidden paths that lead to nowhere
a> Come taste the fresh cut fungi from Yuggoth
a> Come roll in lotus flowers brought from Sarnath
a> And for once, dream the dream your kind forgot
a> Byathis and his kin they are my brothers
a> The Black Goat's thousand young they are my friends
a> And we will someday merge with one another
a> In a mythos, in a tale that never ends
a> Have you ever seen the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> Or let the Deep Ones speak of where they've been
a> Can you sing to Azathoth high in the Mountains
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Where does the Miskatonic flow?
a> If you dam it up, you won't ever know
a> And you'll never see the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> For whether we have scales or human skin
a> We need to sing to Azathoth high in the Moutains
a> We need to hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> We need to hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> You can sail the seas and still
a> He will wait and dream until
a> You can hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> Shareright (sr) 1995 James Westbrooks
a> This and all my songs (?) may be performed or distributed freely as long
a> as you credit me as the author (and don't make any money in the
a> process, the operative word here being "free"). In fact, I would be
a> hugely complimented if someone were to sing any of my material.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... How can you buy or sell the sky? - Chief Seatle, 1852
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: Cthulhu Ctharols (was: Old Time Filk Singing)
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:41:23
EID:5fec 21989d20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c03250
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 404c2899
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
tomsmith@izzy5.izzy.net say to Multiple:
Seems to be Cthulhu week on Filk. . .some more lovely tunes to add to your
collection:
t> years old." He begins to play "O Tannenbaum", but....
t> "O Yog-Sothoth, O Yog-Sothoth,
t> We worship You, O Yog-Sothoth.
t> Who's Santa Claus? Who's Jesus Christ?
t> We worship Yog 'cause He's not nice.
t> "We'll celebrate with some stray dog,
t> Which we'll carve up and serve to Yog,
t> O Yog-Sothoth, O Yog-Sothoth,
t> Eat someone else, not me-ee."
<>
t> playing "The Beer Barrel Polka".
t> "Wor... ship... Cthulhu, worship Cthulhu today,
t> Wor... ship... Cthulhu, our High Priest will show you the way,
t> Sing... to... Cthulhu, raise all your voices on high,
t> Now's the time to worship Cthulhu, or you're going... to... die!
t> "Wor... ship... Cthulhu, and you'll never worship in vain,
t> Wor... ship... Cthulhu, it's better than dying in pain,
t> Sing... to... Cthulhu, raise all your voices in fear,
t> Now's the time to worship Cthulhu, 'CAUSE CTHU... LHU'S... HERE!"
t> +-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
t> | Tom Smith (tomsmith@izzy.net) | Amiga - Babylon 5 - MST3K |
t> | The World's Fastest Filker | http://www.izzy.net/~tomsmith |
t> +-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... The crisis of today is the joke of tomorrow.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: All who got the Cthulhu files
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:47:00
EID:13e4 21989de0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c0336d
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 88497850
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
kay.shapero@salata.com say to Multiple:
Here's another one. . .
ks> SUNG FROM UNDER THE BED
ks> Words: Kay Shapero
ks> Tune: Cecilia*
ks> CHORUS: Cthulhu, you're breaking my mind.
ks> My sanity's vanishing daily!
ks> Oh, Cthulhu, I'm down on my knees
ks> I'm begging you, please -- go away,
ks> Go away!
ks> I picked up this ancient book
ks> By some guy named Abdul Al-Haz'red (Al-Haz'red)
ks> Read two chapters; now it seems
ks> You're disturbing my days and you're haunting my dreams.
ks> CHORUS
ks> Half-awake in the early morn
ks> With my lover sleeping by my side (by my side)
ks> When I feel a nameless dread
ks> And I turn on the light, I find you in my bed!
ks> CHORUS
ks> Hiding out in the afternoon
ks> In a room at Miskatonic U (hiding out)
ks> Elder Signs from ceiling to floor,
ks> And there's star-stones to block off the windows and door.
ks> Consternation! He's found me again,
ks> I crawl in the closet and shiver.
ks> Consternation! He's found me again,
ks> I crawl in the closet and shiver.....
ks> Words copyright Kay Shapero, 1983
ks> * With the author's apologies to Simon, Garfunkel, and H.P. Lovecraft...
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A Most Dangerous Thing - an Ensign with a map....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:42:00
EID:ba2c 21966540
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C1
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-13-96 (17:55) Number: 31288
From: JOHN JEANNEAULT Refer#: NONE
To: ALL CHRISTIANS Recvd: NO
Subj: HOLYSMOKE Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JJ>Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
by no
JJ>longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity, or tolerance
JJ>within this message area. The goal of the message base is only to ridicule
a
JJ>malign Christ and His followers. The only reason the enemies of Christ
post
JJ>here, is to participate in the roasting and ridicule, not because they
are
JJ>interested in any sort of dialogue or debate with Christians. They are
rude,
JJ>closeminded and arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debatin
JJ>with them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction.
JJ>continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to "cast
your
JJ>pearls before swine".
Since you never answer messages posted in your alias name
< Leonard Bernier >
but are allowed to keep posting reglious junk messages,
how fair do you want it ? I've yet to see you debate anyone in
either name.
__View of Christian Love__
" The work of a secret feminist agenda that is not about
equal rights for women.It is about a socialist,
anti-family political movement that encourages women to
leave their husbands, kill their children, practice
witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."
-- Pat Robertson on the Iowa Equal Rights Amendment --
* SLMR 2.1a * "This is Abuse. Arguments are down the hall."
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:26:00
EID:9576 21974340
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C2
DM> DM> weight here. This echo _exists_ to argue and fire off
DM> DM> insults at others, particularly at fundies unable to provide
DM> DM> any non-Biblical evidence for their many claims. Those who
DM> DM> volunteer to take a turn in the barrel may _ask_ others not
DM> DM> to use the bunghole, but they had better wait for the others
DM> DM> to agree before getting in.
DM> GTP> Although when the fundy pickin's get slim, ya'll don't scruple
DM> GTP> tormenting us poor, defenseless heathen .
DM> Awwwwww geeeez!
DM> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM>Defenseless here?
Sure .....poor baby..... about as 'Defenseless' as a polar bear
with a fundy shoved up it ass.
* SLMR 2.1a * * Anything U say will be misquoted & used against You. **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Holysmoke
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:00
EID:6ee1 219688e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C3
DM>John Jeanneault said "HOLYSMOKE" to All Christians, adding:
DM> JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
DM> JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
DM> JJ> by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
DM> JJ> or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
is
DM> JJ> only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only reason
DM> Has anyone here _ever_ seen a pearl from this bozo?
See spamming via ...... Leonard Bernier....... One and the
same, one's a node and the other is a point off that node.
Dipshit made a few mistakes with the flag on his posting a
few times. A bit of a give away. Wonder if his God loves his
/her/its lieing, WHAT! am I'm Saying, shit the bible says it's
all right to lie and cheat.
[more layers of lies then a brick wall]
* SLMR 2.1a * * Depression is merely anger without too much enthusiasm
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 11:50:00
EID:b79e 21975e40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C4
CG> -=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Chris Green <=-
> CG> By the way, is your Congress any closer to getting that Chemical
> CG> Company to pay for the Bopal incident?
> DH> What's a Congress?
CG>You mean you don't come from Quebec?
Not that lad. Just a few miles away from me, +- a half hundred
miles or so.
CG>... ******WARNING*******TRAWLER OPERATING******WARNING*******
Yup. We caught it the 1'st time.
Is that a 1 inch mesh or a 6 inch mesh ?
* SLMR 2.1a * ** It's Like Chasing A Fart In The Wind! **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Assisted Suicide
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:13:00
EID:3d25 219879a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C5
Subj: Assisted Suicide Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DH>>>> Forcing people who want to die to stay alive. Why make sense?
> RV> I was kind of looking at it as if legal for one group ie: the old
and
> RV> tried or the fatal sick. Then it would also have to be open for
> RV> anyone. If it every gets allowed here, then i can see another
> RV> battle like the anti-abortion group. However the rules are apply it
> RV> would be another can or worms.
DH>Oh, there is never any shortage of people who know better than others
DH>how those others ought to live or die. When you count the number of
This is true,if to no one else, then myself. Someone, somewhere will
always know better then I, as to how i should live my life. What ever
the problem in life, i'm going through. Someone, somewhere, will ,with
joy, tell me how I'm wrong and perhaps tell me a why.
DH>assisted suicides (even the number of suicides) it is a VERY small
DH>part of the population. There are many more people talking about it
DH>than are seriously considering it.
Again, I would say, likely true. Somewhat like a female who will
abort a possible child. Most times it's not a simple decision at all,
there usually is a lot of thought behind it. Again, I'm only looking at
this from my life and those i know or have knowen.
For me, I'm a chicken with pain and know i would cut the cord ie:life
when it got too bad or a combination or pain and a down mood. My left
over family know this, may not like the idea; but if it happen, they
would finally understand when the anger was temper with time.
Each person has their level of tolerance, Neither I nor anyone else
should have a say, when that level has been passed.
> RV> It is what i would support, then like i also indicated. Even I, would
> RV> find it hard to allow the young access to it and thats not being
> RV> fair.
DH>Do you think that's a similar phenomenon to the people who don't trust
DH>the terminally ill to end their own lives?
I can see it a bit that way. Some days, the pain of life seems too
great and yet, a few days later. The pain has drop and life goes on.
For myself, ignoring that all will die... when it's a knowen killer of
life and a young person. That case, nope, for them, they should be
allowed to carry out their wish, when they wish it.
This bit of holding on, a cure may happen someday, is a poor reason for
those who are in pain , to hang on or not be allowed to die . That
is sick and just another form of torture. I'm dealing with body pain not
just mental pain. I do know of the difference of the two.
The combination of both body and mind pain is a deadly combination
anyhow. To finish the bodys pain, more so, when you understand
that it will never leave off, ever. I know I couldn't handel it, why
make a stranger have to handel it.
As to mental pain, I know of that, and also know , that I'm not sure
of what my view on it is. Some days it's a YES - allow it and other
days it's a 'HOLD On', it will pass and be less.
Here again, I'm only speaking of my experience, and with that, does it
give me a right to speak for others. In reality, and to be truthful, I
would have to say ' NO ' , i can't speak nor do I have the right to
speak for anyone else.
That I got pass my pain and finally solve it, doesn't mean everyone
will. We, are not all the same.
I'm also fairly sure that if there wasn't such a negitive effect
of self killing, I'm fairly sure i wouldn't be here now.
> RV> I've always wonder to myself, if i have the right to interfear in
> RV> their life. They may have presented their wish to me and
> RV> if i happen to have turn them on their path, by accident i may turn
> RV> them on a worst path. That is my biggest fear when this happens.
DH>We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
DH>others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
I will beg to differ. We are that powerful. That person, to tell me
his , his pass and what he could see ahead.{ his life }
I did have power since i also had his trust. With that and since i could
see where he was comeing from. I did have power, a form of anyhow. I
could of painted the picture {future life} blacker and what is the use
to go on, or even try {life}. Because i may question your opinon, doen't
mean i will always question it. This does or may give you power over me.
Your forgetting that part of the human experience. We, humans sometimes
get very tried of wanting to look for answers ourselfs.
So again, i say, as a human, we can be that powerful ie: any abuse
situation done via words for control shows us this.
DH>We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
DH>others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
DH>within an environment from which that person will choose death to
DH>escape, one other cannot take responsibility for the choice of
DH>direction at each corner. That childrearing will not be undone in
The Final choice, is the fianl actor in life. But as a careing human
of my fellow person, i do have to question myself. Do i have the right
to question or to hand out information that may or maynot change this
person opinon on going on trying. Agree, most don't bother, and they
just toss it out or force it in their life. Those who care, will always
question themselfs before giveing any opinon, that one must live at any
cost.
Again, I don't buy that any cost bit. I may hate to see a friend die too
soon , but I also understand. I may be wrong, I may
be, VERY WRONG. I must also understand that I will never likely know
either way. Right or Wrong. In reality, there
there is no real answer. This likely will only effect those with no god
and the final answer. I personally don't think there will ever be a easy
answer to the question, to live or not.
DH>a few conversations. If we are the first positive presence in such
DH>a tragic life, how could something we say cause a death if we are
DH>acting without doubt in that person's best interest?
Not in the fact of something we said that cause them to live or die.
In this case i was thinking of something, I may have said that caused
them to live, but in their liveing they caused others to suffer. When i
say suffer, i'm thinking of an abuse situation or takeing someone else
life or more then another life. By my speaking, it may of been positive
for the liveing of them, but they, in their liveing caused
more harm then if they died young. Hitler would be a good example. Thats
along the idea i was talking of. < extreme example, i know >
DH>If we were to earn a trust and betray it, yes, that could mitigate
DH>suicide. But that would take a betrayal.
For those few who understand their own mental life and can understand
how and the why they do things,. It gets easier to
understand others and to lead them. If the target is a lazy thinker, I
would say it would also be easy to lead them to the edge and give a
mental push. Thats one of the reasons, I'm always questioning myself,
I've tried in small ways to see if I could control others with a word or
two. I also didn't feel so great when i found i could. I will always
question what i do and the why i do it. Those who have a low opion of
themselfs are easyer to control, I only have to look to myself for that.
I've don't such a great job there, that it's taken years to beat the
bad effects and some days those effects are still in control.
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ If Goddess Took Acid Would She See People ? +++
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 23 Dec 96 13:44:00
EID:247c 21976d80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C6
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-20-96 (21:56) Number: 31603
From: MIMI MILSTEIN Refer#: NONE
To: RONALD VASS Recvd: YES
Subj: oh hell Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MM>Hello Ronald!
MM>Ronald Vass wrote in a message to Curtis Johnson:
MM>CJ> AS> Nope. Ever read War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells? One soldier
said
MM>CJ> AS> wasn't a war between them and the Martiains...anymore than man
wars
MM>CJ> AS> with the ants. Ants plan, build, wage wars, but a man can trod
on a
MM>CJ> AS> anthill and they'll have to start all over again...
MM>CJ> What was the title of that book, again?
MM>RV> He's thinking of the radio program, I think.
MM>I doubt it. H.G. Wells novella was published in 1898,
MM>decades before Orson Welles made his famous radio version
MM>on Oct-30-1938 and got the suckers running out of town.
Ok. So, I'm the one thinking of the radio program. Of all the
SF books i have readed. Thats one author, I've never read. I had
Orson Welles, tied into that war of the world. I guess one of
these days i should read the orginal book by the real author.
Thanks.
* SLMR 2.1a * ** How do You feel about Insults and death threats ?? **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: death
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:05:00
EID:b743 219870a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C7
DW>Carl Sagan died early this morning.
DW>Jesse Jones (and a host of other bloodsucking lawyers) is still alive.
DW>There obviously is no God.
Which god ?
* SLMR 2.1a * ** If You Drink Like A FISH, Please Swim Home. **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:54:00
EID:816f 219846c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C8
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-21-96 (19:17) Number: 31898
From: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ Refer#: NONE
To: JOHN JEANNEAULT Recvd: NO
Subj: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB> >>> Part 2 of 2...
LB> JJ> THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH
TO
LB> JJ> HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY,
LET
LB> JJ> US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND HEARTS
TO
LB> JJ> FEEL!
LB>Tell that Spirit to lower the volume. You're getting hoarse.
LB> JJ> Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with
LB> JJ> them..he only posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook!
LB> JJ> Let us all do the same....let us either get out of here
LB> JJ> altogether...or let us all barrage them with scripture....with no
LB> JJ> response to the slap on the cheek, except that of quoting more
LB> JJ> scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
LB>Yes...lets leave. But don't leave. Let's just go...sort of. Maybe. Yea,
that
LB>the ticket.
Both partys are the same person. point and node
95.9% sure
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A Peake, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:48:00
EID:45ca 21985e00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C9
AS> RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
AS> RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
AS> RC> miraculous intervention.
AS> RC>
AS> RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
AS> RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
AS> The best, I think.
AS> Most of the miracles which are at the heart of my religion, concern
Death
....
......
AS> involves us all, the abused and the abuser, the poor and the rich, the
AS> intelligent and the mentally challenged. For we all must face death.
So as a Christian, you also support the rape of kids. In the long run,
it's how God wants it, and Al supports what his God wants ?
But save that chunk of iron, it's more importaint then a childs mental
health.
Cute Al. Nice God you worship. Great fine tuning there, warp a kid
for life or better still, kill it for Christ. [part of that 3 in 1 god]
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A Peake, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:31:00
EID:72aa 219863e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CA
AS> AS> Which is one reason Einstein HATED it. But at least you can
AS> AS> statistically make predictions from it, no matter that we can't
do on
AS> AS> each individual wave/particle.
AS> RH> Works with people, too. One man is hard to predict, but mob psychology
AS> RH> is well established.
AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A female, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:10:00
EID:1112 21986940
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CB
KD> BJ> ultimate source of Christianity and it's value system, which he
so
KD> BJ> hated.
KD>Nope.
KD> BJ> Open up your heart then. I'm not asking you to be guilible, or
KD> BJ> anti-intellectual. These are not admirable traits in any sense.
I do
KD> BJ> ask though that you not reply to me as if I'm an enemy.
KD>You'd *have* to be gullible to be a Christian.
It helps.
KD>... Watch the short jokes or I'll bite you on the ankle!
4 foor 9" . . . . R U N T . . . .
* SLMR 2.1a * ** Mike H.** living example of Artificial Intelligence.*
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Christian Adultery
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:24:00
EID:68b8 21986b00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CC
GT>Heilsa, Ronald Vass!
GT>Thursday December 12 1996 20:20, Ronald Vass wrote to Dan Ceppa:
GT>RV> From what we see here, those who profess the Christian Faith
GT>RV> lie ... all/most of the time. No ?
GT>Yes.
Perhaps I should of said, " it seems like . . ." . It's more my
problem then the so called 'God Believer', if a god profess to
be true to that god or even themselfs. Why can't they just come out
with .. I don't understand....I don't know why.... perhaps it means
... type of thing. Instead they come out with a postive statement even
if that statement has been showen to be unproven or a direct lie.
They [to me] are lieing to themselfs. A person who continues to do
that, and thinks it's good. Will never be trusted by me. Like i said,
it's my problem.
* SLMR 2.1a * *** Sandra And her Mists Of Distortion ***
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:22:00
EID:465b 219872c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CD
> RV> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
> RV> ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
D O N ' T !! do that, Al will believe your sucking up to him.
> RV> I see Al is so close to the bottom of the barrel, he's now useing
> RV> well Ron did it. Shit is that a laught, between you
> RV> and Curry he's picking up any rock to hid under.
CJ> I knew you'd be amused by that.
Just a shake of the head, if i hadn't seen it, I would never believe
it could happen. Funny but sad, at the same time.
CJ> I am pretty amused by how that attempted novelist is now
CJ> trying to defend himself by playing loose with definitions, and
CJ> saying it's OK to be careless with information and to write
CJ> sentences that state completely different from what he claims he
CJ> meant.
He's been caught out too often, it's loseing its humor. Time to check
the why it continues. Not you, him.
> RV> I've looked for the orginal post but alas thats another that
> RV> never made it this far. Now the hub is talking ofpicking up
> RV> the fido package through the inter-net. If that happens, who
> RV> the hell knows how it will work out.
CJ> Any idea of just how I-net the fido package will become?
CJ> I'm wondering if one of those search engines will put FIDO
CJ> echoes into its database, as Dejanews does for newsgroups.
The chap that was the hub for a bit did it with the news groups ,
placeing them in the message base. I guess it would be done the
same way. With the break up of the mail, it's getting
to the stage of just reading the base again. I think most replys i send
out are getting lost. No fireworks comeing back , weeken mail
is the worst, it's getting to the point, i'm surprise anything is
makeing it pass the local hub. Must be that quantum god loseing it's
quark in Al's sample space.
CJ> RV> O'well.....Have a good one.
CJ> You too. I'll do something for myself while hunkering down
CJ> and waiting for the damn holiday to blow over.
Can't happen fast enought for me.
Have a Great Day.
ron.
* SLMR 2.1a * *** PMS *** Permanent Mean Streak.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:26:00
EID:9170 21987340
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CE
AS> BTW, Ron. Despite the words we have crossed each other with, nevertheless
Don't feel special, I can piss off anyone, sooner or later. It's
a habit of mine.
AS> I am very glad you post on this echo. And however you enjoy this season
of
AS> the year...either as Christmas, Hannukah, Winter Solstice, Yule, or
just a
AS> few days off...have a Happy one.
You have a good day too.
* SLMR 2.1a * *Which way ? Don't ask me, I'm only visiting this planet.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AND MORE LIFE.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:37:00
EID:fae9 219874a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CF
> RV> To die, that in itself, isn't what i fear. The way and means of dieing
> RV> does cause a fear, that i won't denie. I've been on the borderline
of
RH>Ah yes. As the torturer told the condemned man "Dying is easy; it's getting
RH>there that's hard". With my luck, I'll die slowly of pneumonia, drowning
in
RH>my own mucus.
Actually I'm hopeing for a plane load of fundy's to drop out of the
sky and kill me. That way i can stand back in my spirt form as i watch
Satan and hir little helpers, chain up all those good christians and
feed them to that christian lake of fire.
Make my fucking day, fast death and a humor show all in one.
> RV> the body shutting down. It was a V E R Y N I C E feeling. I don't
> RV> fear that part at all, if anything, i look forward to it again.
RH>Indeed. Many stories have told of resuscitated individuals being most
RH>annoyed at being "brought back".
Took me a week to thank him, thats how pissed off i was at him. Dirty
rotten SOB.
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ For +++ Punishment +++ Drink Scotch +++
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al debunks Apple Sauce
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:30:00
EID:99c1 21987bc0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043D0
> AS> Because I believe in free will, and Appleton is a willfull idiot.
> RV> Not the way he can join words together. A lier maybe, but far from
> RV> an idiot. I do understand what you meant, though.
AS> Appleton. He will just pull the snippets from his quote book and think
AS> he's proven something, without even realizing how he's debunked himself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now Al. Look to what your saying here.
The fact the god thumpers drag a god out of some bible and wave it all
over the place is no different then Sir Apple Sauce . Actually,
Sir Apple Sauce is closer to telling the truth. At least his characters,
in his fantasy have lived and others can check their pass lives and any
writeing done by said character. The thumpers of god or gods, can't even
pull that much EVIDENCE for their fantasy.
Better be careful, of who debunks whom.
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ Reglion. Lets Untalented people make a liveing +++
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:23:00
EID:d92a 21979ae0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D437D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> So you would agree with Plantinga that belief in God can be
MH>"properly basic?"
JJ> Michael, I have no idea who Plantinga is.
OK ... however, you could have asked to me explain the concept, so that
you could evaluate it regardless of whether you know Plantinga. (Who
is, BTW, Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga.)
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
MH>God exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether
MH>we believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
JJ> Heb 6:4-8 "For it is impossible to restore again to
JJ> repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the
JJ> heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted
JJ> the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
(6)
JJ> and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying
JJ> again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. (7) Ground
JJ> that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces
a
JJ> crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing
JJ> from God. (8) But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless
JJ> and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over."
Hmmmmm .... I THINK you just told me to go to hell.
How does this square with Jesus telling Peter he should forgive those
who wrong him "seventy times seven?"
... Now, did you have a point to make?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: truth
|Date: 23 Dec 96 17:50:00
EID:3ac1 21978e40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D437E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Michael Hardy <=-
DW> First the Christians give us "True Christians/False Christian Scum."
DW> Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
DW> What's next?
MH> You only ask that because you're False Worrell Scum.
RC>
RC> We must apply the Washcloth of Truth to the dirt smudge which
RC> the False Worrell Scum tries to pass off as a beard.
hehe ... I heard about that, in passing.
... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:13:00
EID:c578 219799a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D437F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to David Rice <=-
DR>This month I bought a woman and her three children, whom
DR>I've never met, food and clothing.
JJ> I commend you for this act of human kindness.
DR> No doubt a fundy would
DR>have merely "prayed for them."
JJ> It is sad but true that my fundamentalist sisters and brothers
JJ> tend to buy into conservative politics and the vicious lie that those
JJ> who are poor somehow are responsible for their own despair. James
DR>Atheists, for the most
DR>part, would let her and her children go hungry and cold.
JJ> And that too sadly is true.
JJ> Anyone care to buy a clue?
I have a free one ... good people do good things, bad people do bad
things ... no matter what religion they profess to follow, and no
matter if they believe in no god.
... Behind every double standard is a single hidden agenda.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:20:00
EID:9ad5 21979a80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D4380
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
MH>God exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether
MH>we believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
JJ> Michael, as I said to you before you elected to join ranks
JJ> with the Rice Brothers, a Christian faith which is premised on a
JJ> choice to believe buying a ticket to heaven will itself have to face
JJ> the awesome judgment of God. Luke 9:24 "For those who want to save
JJ> their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake
JJ> will save it."
I can assure you ... or could have if you had not fled the echo ...
I've joined ranks with no one.
An interesting contrast ... Al Schroeder has assured me that my backing
away from dogma I once defended does not lessen his esteem for me. You
have responded by simply moving me into the "heathen" column and giving
me the same invective you've given the others. Al's friendship is,
apparently, less conditional than yours.
In the same vein, some of the "heathens" were my friends even when I
was not among them. I consider those same people more genuine friends
than I do those who have begun treating me decently only when my ideas
changed.
... Behind every double standard is a single hidden agenda.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 24 Dec 96 17:33:49
EID:5d6f 21988c20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Gwenny = The Pooh THEN Damien Wellman ELSE "Flat Earth" Town
DW> Agreed... It's especially bad in West Virginia (the Weird Fundy Capital
of
DW> the Western Hemisphere).
GTP> Hmmm, where in WV?? I lived in Marietta, Ohio for ten years.
Huntington, which is at the WV/Ohio/Kentucky border.
... The very idea of a Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen. Mwah Hah Hah!
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 24 Dec 96 17:33:50
EID:6a5b 21988c20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Judith = Bandsma THEN All ELSE fido shits again
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
JB> me know.
I'm seeing it. I'm letting you know. :)
Oh, and while he's standing behind my shoulder watching me type and
threatening physical injury if I don't tell you: Dave Hilling says
Happy Solstice and warns that he _will_ return.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ -1 Kelvin is just too cool.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 17:33:50
EID:6125 21988c20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Don = Martin THEN Gwenny The Pooh ELSE 2 corinthians 9:13
GTP> Although when the fundy pickin's get slim, ya'll don't scruple
GTP> tormenting us poor, defenseless heathen .
DM> Awwwwww geeeez!
DM> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM> Defenseless here?
Yeah, real defenseless... about as defenseless as a M-1A.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ Giant Space Hamsters never get lost behind the fridge.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 24 Dec 96 07:49:44
EID:9765 21983e20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf8e11
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc467
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GtP>> I hope not, too, since I still (hint, hint. . .where's my 2x4?) do
GtP>> not have my own personal Internet link.
AS> Glen, I have a suggestion for a Yule present to get Gwenny...Gwenny,
you
AS> would LOVE it. There is so much information you can get at the tip
of your
AS> fingers...
Well, I didn't get that, but I did get some nifty stuff. A gorgeous
jewlry box (too bad I don't do jewlry ), an electric deep fryer/steamer/cooker
(does my daughter-in-law to be read my mind, I was planning to get one at
the After Christmas sales), two coffee grinders (for one for edible herbs,
one for incense herbs), and a lovely teal satin nighty (from my youngest
son, no less--MAYBE he will finally accept that I am married ). In
some ways, the holidays with almost grown kids is more fun that with little
ones.
And, just for Jesse's benefit, the best gift of all, again this year, was
the fact that my children took the $100 that their grandfather gave each
of them and spent most of it on others, of their own choice. The youngest
only spent about half (he's saving the rest for his part of the playstation
we're getting after Christmas) while the eldest (a vocal and confirmed atheist)
spent all of his and got his son and girlfriend some lovely things. But
just remember, atheists don't do good things.
GtP>> SERIOUS discussion. . . here?
AS> Every once in a while.
Okay, MAYBE once in awhile.
AS>> BTW, happy Yule, or however you enjoy this season of the year. You're
AS>> one of the better people here.
GtP>> Yep, we do Yule. It looks like it will be splendid. We will be
GtP>> blessing our grandson at sunrise, after staying up all night watching
GtP>> Monte Python.
AS> As I recall, Monty Python is your usual thing on Yule. And now for
AS> something completely different...
AS> In any case, enjoy.
Yes, we do the Monty Python thingie. Couldn't find Eric the Viking to rent
this year, so I was a little bummed. But now that Wild has a decent job
again, maybe we can make it a priority to buy all the ones we always rent.
I have noticed a trend in the last two years. The Festival started out
an adult thing, and has been slowly turning into a teenage thing. I don't
know when it happened. Not that I'm complaining, I adore teenagers.
And we did enjoy. We did a lovely (if somewhat later than planned Yule
ritual) which some of the kids' friends opted to attend. They enjoyed it,
even if Matthew did behave like an eleven-year-old . Then, at dawn,
we blessed Robert and all gave him things for his medicine bag and made
wishes for him.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I live by only 2 laws: IDIC and Murphy.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:04:25
EID:269a 21984080
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf90eb
REPLY: 1:358/1 f20300bc
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> It's amazing what can happen if a guy turns off the computer and
GtP>> actually looks at a woman. I kid you not, I had the experience of
GtP>> aggressively flirting with a man for several hours while he just kept
GtP>> showing me what his computer could do. I wonder if some of the
GtP>> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP>> guidelines to getting girls.
QF> Why don't you? It couldn't hurt, could it?
You're right. Okay, I'll get my daughters together and we will collaborate.
QF> On a semi-related note, yesterday, I was out Christmas shopping, and,
QF> while maybe it was the Zoloft, I actually didn't feel like everyone
QF> was thinking, "God, what an ugly freak he is", and I actually talked
QF> to the clerks at a couple of the stores I went to (and they were kinda
QF> cute, too). The clerk at the HMV where I buy most of my psycho death
QF> metal CDs was actually quite friendly, and I had assumed for a long
QF> time that I scared her.
Ahhh, Zoloft is WONDERFUL. I took it for awhile. Lost 60 pounds, loved
the world, and lost all interest in sex . That was the reason I stopped
taking it. If I had been single, it wouldn't have mattered, but a wife
getting blinding migraine during intercourse can give a husband (esp one
who insists on being insecure) a complex. That isn't to say it would
do that for you, I'm the kind of person who gets side effects from placedos.
Let me know how it works. I have several friends taking it who are
having no problems whatsoever and it is really working for them.
I am taking St. John's Wort for my seasonal depression this year. It is
working marvelously. Of course, my insurance won't pay for (unlike Germany,
where it is the most prescribe substance for chronic depression), but it's
only about $4 a bottle of fifty and I can cut that price to about $3/200
now that I have an electric grinder and a capsule filler. I could drink
it as tea, but it doesn't taste that great. Guess I'm just a pill popper.
I'm going to start giving it to my kids, too. I see signs that genetics
functions just fine in our family--looks like they, too, will have to struggle
with depression.
QF> I think I may have the skills necessary to get a girlfriend, I just
QF> don't know how to use them for that purpose.
I'm sure you do. The most important thing is to just be yourself. The
right girl will find you. TRUST me.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Hello, I'll be your evil influence for the evening.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:14:49
EID:9937 219841c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf93cb
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72829110
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Say BLESSED BE to that, brother Goldberg. And speaking of
GtP>> fine comestibles, I think it's time to go give my new coffee pot
GtP>> it's first run. . good coffee laced liberally with
GtP>> Bailey's.
MG> That's right....ruin it with Bailey's.
Would you prefer some nice Scotch in it??
MG> I like coffee hot, strong and black...without the attendant dirty
MG> jokes.
At our house the joke, mommy likes the dark meat. And I have never figured
out why. It is an attraction that does back to well before I was being
molested, so that leaves out the main reasons they give for light skinned
women being attracted to black men. And it can't be that a sense of inferiority
because I always dated black men who were socially and financially higher
class than I was. No, I had crushes on black actors (Sidney Poiter, the
electronics whiz from Mission Impossible, Ben Vereen) from my earliest memories.
Then when I went to college, my first lover from a knock-dead Jamaican guy.
(He smelled absolutely DIVINE. . .I'm a very olfactory person)
You're the geneticist, any genetic basis for this type of thing?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... OS/2 - Warp Drive for Windows.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christianity #1 of 6
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:31:48
EID:acba 219843e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9af2
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 21907529
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Christian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Christian say to David:
DR>> 1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that
DR>> Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
CH> George is not an elected Christian spokesman. His statement is
CH> acceptable to me. Christianity has little to do with patriotism. As
for
CH> citizenship, they identify with being "not of this world". Of course,
we
CH> reside for now in various countries. American, Canadian, French... is
CH> secondary to being a Christian.
DR>> 2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local
DR>> churches.
CH> Better to give speeches to the more easily confused!
DR>> 3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians.
DR>> The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists
as
DR>> Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the
DR>> Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther
DR>> King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks
DR>> on all forms of Christianity.
CH> Huh?
CH> I deleted many of the items, because they were apparently "tongue-in
CH> cheek" comments, without merit. But:
The whole thing is tongue in cheek, silly.
DR>> 11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian priests
DR>> as they were going to work in their churches. Similarly, atheists are
DR>> well known for blockading churches on Sunday mornings.
CH> Actually true. The priests (and other missionaries) killed were
CH> primarily in "third world" countries, but the problems at churches has
CH> been occuring in this country. Primarily "gays", which may or may not
be
CH> atheist.
When the number of Christian priests and missionaries killed by heathens/pagans/atheists
is even 1/1,000,000th of the number heathen priests, priestesses, shamans,
etc done in by missionaries, let me know.
DR>> 13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the
DR>> Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court
DR>> cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who
DR>> insisted on swearing on a Bible.
CH> If you knew the Bible's instruction on oaths, you would know why
CH> Christians often "affirm", and will not "swear".
The only ones I have ever seen refuse to swear on a bible were the Witlesses,
who also eschew any part in the political process on the grounds that Jeshua's
kingdom is not of this world. Paul's teachings support that stand, with
him telling the slaves not to go against either their masters or the government
that supported their masters.
DR>> 14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but
DR>> those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will
be
DR>> politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
CH> The second part is true in some public schools, and some industry.
Not in my experience. Without exception crosses have been permitted and
pentacles forbidden. When I went back to work for the Loaf and Jug (a subsidiary
of Kroger under Dillon Company), the manager knew I was pagan. One of the
conditions of my hiring was that I never wear a pentacle at work and tha
I avoid discussing my religion. Two of the girls wore crosses and the Patriot
nightshift guy always talked about the bible. In D11 schools pentacles
have been declared a "gang" symbol because some gang worships the Dallas
Cowboys. No one has bothered to outlaw crosses, even though the most prominent
local gang identifies itself by crosses tatooed across the back of the fingers.
One of my daughter's friends goes to a VERY expensive private school (they
take field trips to Marid Gras) that recently outlawed pentacles. . .until
a teacher started demanding that kids also remove their crosses. The topic
is in limbo at this point. My daughter, herself, had her pentacle forcibly
ripped from her neck by a fundy teacher two years ago and the next year
the principle tried to use a minor incident at school to throw my eldest
son out. Three teachers, including the teacher involved, argue for over
an hour until the principal finally backed down. I don't suppose it would
surprise you to learn that the principal is the sponsor of the Young Christian
Athletes Assoc.
DR>> 15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly
DR>> impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as
DR>> Christmas.
CH> Right! Many stores require employees (sales clerks, cash register
CH> operators, food service, drug stores... etc.) to work, to get more
last
CH> minute sales. Another problem day for many is "Good Friday". This day
CH> has more meaning for most Christians than does Christmas, but is
CH> recognized by few employers.
Wrong. Christian holidays are the most recognized holidays by employers.
This Christmas there will be ONE store open in our town. . .a convenience
store. I worked at this store and I KNOW that the atheist and I always
volunteered to work Christmas to give the others a day off. Last Christmas
I worked for twelve hours, then went back and worked six more hours. My
husband has three days off. Not only that, but people get paid for being
off. We pagans can get our holidays off, but we have to do it without pay.
I have yet to meet a manager who wouldn't try to accommodate a devote Christian's
worship needs. Unlike that asshole who promised me Yule and the day after
off in return for my working all the extra hours on Christmas for him, and
then called me in the middle of festivities to tell me I had to come in
a dawn. I missed the morning ritual.
DR>> 16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that
DR>> pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people
DR>> say "Darwin bless you". Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common
DR>> cussword.
CH> In the "yes/no" column, the writer got this right, but for the wrong
CH> reasons. Saying "bless you" is based on superstition, and recognizes
CH> "evil spirits". Christianity does not support superstition.
You really don't have a clue, do you. No one says "Darwin bless you". Atheists
don't bother with blessings, pagans say "Lady bless you." This whole thing
is a joke.
CH> David, most of these writings were not on target considering the
CH> topic,
CH> but I read them all, smiled on some, and thought about others as they
CH> relate to my own experiences.
CH> Concerning descriminating against Christians, there is much that goes
on
CH> that does not make the "news" you listen to. Missionaries are killed,
CH> tortured, jailed, in parts of the world. This is only because others
CH> fear what they teach. I am not aware of those without "theism" being
CH> killed, tortured, or jailed for being a-thiestic. This certainly did
CH> happen in the distant past, I acknowledge.
No, they are jailed because they break the laws, they incite riots, they
desecrate sacred things and places, they try to subvert governments (in
violation of the biblical teachings of the Apostate Saul that governments
are god-given), and basically make life miserable for law enforcement.
CH> Modern issue: two years ago my son wanted to start a Bible Study Club
CH> at High School. About a dozen others wanted to meet during a "free"
CH> period that other clubs met, or others yet simply had study halls.
CH> At first the school said: "Fine. Get a Sponsor, and a room to meet."
CH> He found both. The school librarian was a Christian, was happy to be
a
CH> sponsor, and had authority over a room attached to the library.
CH> The school then told the librarian that she better not volunteer for
CH> this, because the school should have no involvement with "religion".
CH> So we had a "Catch 22". A Sponsor must be found, but a Sponsor was not
CH> permitted.
CH> Then the Club members were told:
CH> they could only meet after school hours.
CH> they had to get proof of liability insurance.
CH> they would miss the school bus ride home.
CH> they had to fill out an application as an "outside group".
CH> they had to face two school lawyers for approval.
CH> No other (minus-theism) clubs had this descrimination!
How many clubs devoted to paganism/atheism/judaism/islam etc are there.
As long as there are NO clubs devoted to ANY religion, that is fair.
CH> The kids quickly got a 100 signature petition supporting the right of
CH> this club to meet just like the other clubs, but no budge.
CH> It took a few months, and a private attorney, to convince the school
CH> that this descrimination was illegal.
CH> No other clubs had to go through this.
CH> Also... though the Bible Study Club was open to ALL, Christian and non-
CH> Christian alike, certain other clubs did limit membership:
CH> Some clubs were for girls, or guys, only.
CH> One club was for "people of color" only.
CH> In some, you had to sing, or play a musical instrument.
CH> The Christian did not descriminate against ANY. Though they were
CH> descriminated against. BTW - this is a common situation around the
CH> country.
Unless you can show that some other group tried to start a religious group
and were refused, you have no case. A girls only group is WAY different
than a Christian study group.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Sects! Sects! Sects! Is that all Monks think about?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:01:13
EID:6bc9 21984820
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9d71
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Fredric:
LB> In fact, as a pair of single moms on a VERY limitted income, we dipped
into
LB> the food stash more than once and made sure to keep it replenished.
I
LB> don't get as organized about it as she was, but i still feel far more
LB> secure knowing i have food in the house. And military families overseas
LB> are told to keep a "go-bag" packed with a limited version of the same
-
LB> about a weeks worth of haulable supplies/food that can be grabbed on
short
LB> notice in case of a bug out.
I strongly recommend food storage. I don't feel comfortable unless I have
at least a few weeks extra. As for "flight bags", honey, not only are we
working on flight bags, but a whole group of us (several families) are working
out a escape route and a place to hide should society go to pieces. Heck,
we've even worked out alternate routes (the main route is very vulnerable
to tampering, since five miles of it runs through a narrow gorge blasted
through the moutains. We are even talking about a trial run next summer,
just for the fun of it. It's a pretty good group. We have a smith/nurse,
a tinker/chemist, a nurse/herbalist, and the rest of us have multiple survival
skills. Our only problem is that the group is predominantly male. Only
four females to eight males. . .and only two of those females are of child
bearing years. Oh, well.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Error receiving Divine Inspiration: (A)bort (R)etry (F)lail
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: purpose and ethics
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:08:21
EID:3d53 21984900
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9d97
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fb7
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Steve:
LB> þ TLX v4.10 þ A SCRATCH? Your arm's off!
It's only a flesh wound.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Life support system warranty expired!!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mario Gonzalez
|Sub: Utterly evil death cult
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:11:43
EID:8071 21984960
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9e87
REPLY: 4:972/4.0 32bc22d2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mario!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mario say to Fredric:
>> We should also teach our children the pain, horror, and pain of atheism.
MG> This is a funny tagline!
I just found a new one in a book I finished yesterday.
. . . Satanism: The Dan Quayle of Ceremonial Magick.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Beer and women: Two of the gods' best gifts to mankind.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:14:24
EID:159b 219849c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9f1f
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B4397
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Michael!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Michael say to Al:
AS>> Mike Hardy works at a paper. He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS>> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
MH> There's a camp? And me without my insect repellent ...
Of course there are camps. You'd like the pagan camp. The guys drum while
the ladies dance around the fire in bits of gauze.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Make me breakfast, and perhaps I'll consider it. Troi
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:16:24
EID:5113 21984a00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9fa8
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc471
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GtP>> It's amazing what can happen if a guy turns off the computer and
GtP>> actually looks at a woman. I kid you not, I had the experience of
GtP>> aggressively flirting with a man for several hours while he just kept
GtP>> showing me what his computer could do. I wonder if some of the
GtP>> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP>> guidelines to getting girls.
AS> Yes...and send them to Quentin. And is Dave Rice still a virgin?
AS> Me, I lucked into finding my wife.
Okay, I'm working it. As for David, I don't know. There have been several
of us willing to remedy that, but he hides in his tent.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I spare not a single unit of thought on these cybernetic simpletons.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Jesus needed...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:17:33
EID:bef3 21984a20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf9fd1
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc478
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GtP>> I was under the impression that harem eunuchs lost it all. I wonder
GtP>> why. Well, then, how about sex change clients?? I know one and s/he
GtP>> has no problem urinating that I have notice. (Inability to urinate
GtP>> is fatal last I heard.)
AS> No question. Urination is possible for transsexuals without a penis.
I was
AS> just talking about eunuchs. (Are castrated men who program internet
AS> providers eunuchs with Unix?)
That's the second time I've seen that pun in as many days. ARGH!
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... When all think alike, then no one is thinking.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:20:14
EID:4bc6 21984a80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa2a2
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 07f558e9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to David:
DW>> Females (with very few exceptions) weigh less then males of the same
DW>> height/build. Your daughter is shorter *and* heavier than I am. It's
a
DW>> simple equation. Your adamant denial of the solution to the equation
DW>> does nothing but amuse me even more.
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density, muscle-to-fat
MB> ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make a judgment about her
MB> weight.
Thank you, Marilyn. Although I readily admit she could lose a little weight,
she is by no means very fat. The child wears a size eleven shoe and has
hands about two inches longer than mine. . .and I have to wear men's gloves
because my hands are so large. Additionally, her shoulders are already
broader than Wild's and he is 6'5".
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven if I could
MB> get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and I'm 6'1".
I once got below 200 pounds as an adult. I almost died from mono. I have
found that, even at my height of only 5'6" (hey, just the reverse of Wild,
I never noticed before), 230 is an excellent weight for me. I wear about
a size eighteen and I feel great. I can get down to 200 before I start
to feel fatigued and grumpy. At this point I am about 285, but I'm just
coming out a tough stretch of life. I tend to over-eat when I'm stressed.
BTW, the last time my bp was checked, it was 114/78. My cholestral is great,
and my doctor says my heart and lung functions are excellent. I have just
grown to accept that being "overweight" is natural for me. Three of my
four maternal great grandparents were immigrants. . .two of them from Eastern
Europe.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "Where did we leave the wheelbarrow the albino had?" -- Inigo Montoya
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:34:57
EID:4d45 21984c40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa400
REPLY: 1:207/212 44f9586f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Karen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Karen say to Brett:
BJ>> All of which obviously happened. Else, the witnesses would not have
BJ>> died for their convictions.
KD> Martyrdom is proof of the events the martyr believes in? Then Joseph
KD> Smith and the Mormons are right, as are many other religions.
If it's "the one with the most martyrs wins," then pagans have
it hands down.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Happy Happy, Joy Joy, Happy Happy, Joy Joy....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:36:01
EID:12b4 21984c80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa496
REPLY: 1:207/212 44f9586f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brett!
BJ>> All of which obviously happened. Else, the witnesses would not have
BJ>> died for their convictions.
Dahling, hundreds of thousands of pagans were elected to die rather than
convert. That means that their beliefs are obviously true. You are welcome
to join us at Dragonfest, where Lady Soltahr (a gorgeous black woman who
does a great pentecostal impression) will unbaptized you.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Dog have fur coats because they look silly in raincoats.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: truth
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:40:25
EID:b60e 21984d00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa52d
REPLY: 1:3603/210 0e472240
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, ROBERT!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
ROBERT say to Michael:
DW>> First the Christians give us "True Christians/False Christian Scum."
DW>> Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
DW>> What's next?
MH>> You only ask that because you're False Worrell Scum.
RC> We must apply the Washcloth of Truth to the dirt smudge which
RC> the False Worrell Scum tries to pass off as a beard.
It won't help. He still won't be able to get a girl with his attitudes.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "Bother!" said Pooh as he drank Roo's blood.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:45:42
EID:0ae6 21984da0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa665
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 012b8e5f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Jesse:
GT>>> shows that it _IS_ a direct and blatant violation of the
GT>>> Constitution and a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics
GT>>> and honour that True Folk would do well to shun.
JJ>> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4%
JJ>> atheists in the U.S.?
DW> Glen is one of those goofy pagans, Jesse. Get your shit together, ok?
And you are a misogynist, your point.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Mythspelling leads to mythtakes.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:46:02
EID:639a 21984dc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa71d
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 15b27072
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jesse!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jesse say to Glen:
GT>> shows that it _IS_ a direct and blatant violation of the Constitution
GT>> and a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics and honour that True
GT>> Folk would do well to shun.
JJ> And just who are these "True Folk"? The 4% atheists in the U.S.?
It is one of several possible translations of "Asatru". . .many peoples
named themselves things that, literally translated, means either "folk",
"the people" or "humans". Honour is one of the nine noble virtues, the
Asatru having a very high, is somewhat strange, standard of ethics.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I want an dream lover so I don't have to dream alone.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: LDS Papal Baptisms, R
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:53:18
EID:0da2 21984ea0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfadd7
REPLY: 1:266/977.0 2970f88f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Becke!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Becke say to Quentin:
BJ> Quentin: Why the hell should I have even bothered telling him I was
BJ> engaged?? We had been broken up for a couple of months at that point--
BJ> I considered him a good friend and nothing more. Hell, most of my
BJ> friends (with the exception of those on #holysmoke, who Paul (my
BJ> husband) and I talk to on a nightly basis) had no idea about this.
I'm a little confused, dear. I spoke with you at length just about a month
before you called Sean to tell him you were married. Perhaps I misunderstood,
but you were still talking about him coming out to visit you and being unhappy
about not being able to make it out for Dfest. By the time we started the
ill-fated coven in late August, you were already married. I don't
recall any mention of anyone except someone's roommate you who had had a
good time with.
I'm not trying to take sides, but let's be fair to BOTH sides. I think
you are both exaggerating just a little to make people take your side.
BJ> As far as Sean goes, fall into his pity-party if you wish, but he
BJ> brought our breakup on all by hisself. Check out my message to him for
BJ> particular reasons WHY we didn't last.
You didn't last because cyber-relationships, as I pointed out during that
time, are a mistake. You REALLY have no idea who or what Sean is, as you
have NEVER met him. Just as he has no idea who you REALLY are, for the
same reason. I believe I counseled you both not to get your hopes up.
And, quite honestly, I don't believe this has any business being hashed
out in a public echo. Shame on you both.
BJ> As far as you go--everything I said I meant. A positive attitude IS
BJ> everything. I'm married now, incredibly happy, and doing quite well.
My best wishes for you. I will concentrate on your being amoung the very,
very small percentage of abuse surviviors who makes a good relationship
out of a whirlwind romance without the benefit of some SERIOUS healing first.
Remember, I, too, am a survivor. I am always here for you. You know my
number.
->> Well, my guess is that either the guy was a long-time friend, or he
->> knocked her up. Call me Mr. Cynicalbastard, but my bet is on the
->> latter.
BJ> Paul and I were pretty good friends before we got married. And no, I'm
BJ> not pregnant, I assure you. Don't jump to conclusions without knowing
BJ> the whole story. The distored half you're getting from Sean isn't even
BJ> close.
I think it is a close as your version. This is not a condemnation. We
all distort reality so that we can live with it. I am no exception, although
I try very hard not to do so.
BJ> I thought I knew you better than this, Quentin. I guess I was wrong.
Given the time frames and your disappearance, it is hardly fair to say that.
Also, Sean has been around here alot longer than you and, as I seem to recall,
was a moving force in the creation of this echo. Until you showed back
up, no doubt many were just considering you another fly-by-night ex-satanist.
And given our experiences with satanists, can you TRULY blame them.
I hope this does not make you angry. I am not trying to do that. I just
want ALL the truth to come out, if you are insisting on carrying this out
in public. I admit a bias. Sean and I have been friends for five years
and lovers for a portion of that. He is a good albeit somewhat undependable
man and is no more flawed than any of us. Maybe a little better in some
ways than your average man, since, when he saw that Wild cared for me and
I returned his affection (and that Wild could give me a much better life
than he could), he gently terminated our physical relationship to give Wild
and me a chance to fall in love. And yet, we have remained good friends
and he and Wild have become good friends.
My counsel is just to let it drop. Nothing is gained by washing your dirty
laundry in public and you just might post something you will regret in six
months.
hugs and snuggles,
Gwenny
... Jesus saves! He only takes half damage from Cthulu's attack!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:19:38
EID:8d90 21985260
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfae67
REPLY: 1:261/1137 970a02eb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Curtis!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Curtis say to Steve:
SQ>> Jesse's in here to "combat the evil." Ask him about his definition
of
SQ>> "evil." :)
CJ> Ciya?
CJ> Uh . . . just who is Ciya? The nanny-goat companion of
CJ> Stargoat?
I have vague memories of her being his niece's imaginary friend.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Drink! For you know not whence you came, nor why.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:20:34
EID:d7d2 21985280
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfaf15
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32bec852
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Nate!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Nate say to Don:
NC> "divine murmurations so utterly unheard" isn't quite true now
NC> is it? Since the Bible even by 1974 was one of the most read and
most
NC> published works known to man.
Most published, maybe, but I doubt most read. I know FEW christians who
have bothered to read it. And the most thrown away or burned. Ever been
to a used bookstore? They usually have dozens of them. The Goodwill is
the same way. Wholes sections of bibles and christian stuff.
NC> To print every Bible, New Testament and individual portion of the
NC> Bible published up to 1974, one printer would have to produce
NC> 1 copy every 3 Seconds!
NC> 20 Copies every minute
NC> 1,200 copies every hour
NC> 28,800 copies every day
NC> 10 1/2 million every year
NC> Non stop for 245 Years!
NC> That's enough Scripture to circle the earth end to end over 1,000
times.
And how many are still in existance?? I think they are kinda like fruitcake,
everyone gives them for gifts, but no body uses them.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Prevent computer viruses, practice safe hex
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:24:41
EID:d680 21985300
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfb041
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 727744fa
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Don:
DM>> What would you propose for the fetuses? Pop them in
DM>> formalin in little bottles so the Mommies could take them
DM>> home for the mantelpiece? Dry them into relics, like the
MG> You would be amazed at the number of mothers that cuddle a spontaneously
MG> aborted fetus before it is unceremoniously sliced and diced by the
MG> Pathology department.
It is part of the grieving process. I never even got a chance to see mine,
as it was so deformed they wouldn't let me. But a child here locally had
hers die two days before it's due date. They birthed the dead baby (on
Mother's Day, the assholes), dressed it, and held a funeral. (A stupid
disgusting funeral meant to further traumatize the poor girl) Although
I disagreed with how they did, I know she needed SOMETHING to help her deal
with it.
Maybe critters do it right. If it doesn't move, eat it. (just joking)
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... He died to take away your sins, not your mind.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:28:54
EID:329b 21985380
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfb193
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 728298d8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Was it here that we were discussing the fact that homosexuality
GtP>> is a sin, but lesbianism isn't??
MG> That's next. Since those nasty old lesbians don't practice anal
MG> intercourse, the funeis have forgotten all about them. Seems that they
MG> practice less of the above than heteros do, thereofre have less sin.
Well, it isn't even condemned in the bible pass a little blurb in Romans
about men leaving the "natural use of women" and causing women to love each
other. There is NOTHING about in Leviticus, which goes into GREAT detail
about what is forbidden.
MG> They also have less AIDS, but that's another matter.
There are less chances of necessary exchange of fluids and, also, lesbians
seem to be more into long-term relationships and less into lots of short-term
ones. This could be because two women living together, while a source of
amusement to neighbors and friends, do not get the same kind of harassment
as two men living together.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (D)on't even think of it!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Sue".
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:36:45
EID:9eba 21985480
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfb27e
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org b3108ee8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Sean say to Fredric:
SM> It appears that Becke is pissed off at me/resents me because I
SM> categorically refuse to go back into debt. It also appears that Sue
resents
SM> me for essentially the same reason.
Sean, luv, I really don't think is the place for this.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if you get an estimate from the barber to cut your hair.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJ
|Date: 25 Dec 96 07:19:40
EID:9472 21993a60
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c1224b0
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32bf6013
Hello Andrew!
Andrew Masten wrote in a message to Marty Leipzig:
RS> Christianity is the brainwashing of the feeble into something to
RS> place hope in when all hope is gone.
AM> You have just fallen for a silly stereo type. How many
AM> wealthy and sucessful football, basketball and baseball
AM> players have you seen that are devout christians? Do you
AM> think Reggie White is feeble and brainwashed? Or how
AM> about Evander Holyfield? Care to step in the ring since he's
AM> so feeble?
I think you fit nicely into that mold as you seem to imagine
the apex of human endeavor is grown men chasing madly around
after a silly ball, or willingly beating the daylight out of
each other in a square 'ring'.... bread and circus for the
plebs - entertainment for non-thinkers.
Elicits the same kind of contemptuous grin that Michal must
have made when seeing King David make an ass of himself
energetically jiving down the street, in your beloved babble.
(At least she got effective birth control for her efforts -
nobody ever think about it was an answer to her fervent
prayer to avoid further pollution of the gene pool).
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 24 Dec 96 07:16:04
EID:aeec 21983a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0532b
LB> Who cares...it's bizarre all it's own. An Infinite mind thinking up
LB> diversions
LB> for one? God as Cosmic Cruise Director? And if he's thinking up all
my
LB> diversions....isn't that going to play hell with the pesky free-will
LB> again?
RH> Oh well, but you see, that's DIFFERENT....
RH> I can't get Al to agree that infinite existance cannot be pleasant.
RH> I suspect he just hasn't come to grips with "infinite" yet.
Welllll....we're not just talking about one infinite here. We're also
talking about the infinite mind of God.
... Even if you ban all books, you can't ban the mind.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:33:26
EID:b7ef 21987c20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0532c
MH> As a metaphorical way to give yourself a philosophical foundation, I
MH> can see some validity in that. For objective reality, though ... if
MH>God exists, and if the stakes are so immeasureably high in whether
MH>we believe so, then why SHOULDN'T there be evidence? And lots of it?
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
JJ> Heb 6:4-8 "For it is impossible to restore again to
JJ> repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the
JJ> heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted
JJ> the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
(6)
JJ> and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying
JJ> again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. (7) Ground
JJ> that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces
a
JJ> crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing
JJ> from God. (8) But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless
JJ> and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over."
Jesse, that seems to me as (to say the least) a poor way of trying to
return Michael to the fold, if that is your intent. He has some honest
doubts; he fought what you and what I would consider the good fight much
longer than I have on this echo; and if he never becomes a believer again,
he is and will always be my friend...not because of the fight he has
fought, because he IS my friend, as others here, like Dan Ceppa and others
who were not believers during the time I have been here, are my friends.
All of us have doubts from time to time; even as the nontheists have
doubts about whether THEY are right from time to time. And honest
questioning and searching for truth cannot be wrong to God, who made that
truth.
His search is not over yet; nor is anybody's here, who is honestly
questing and not found an answer. And if you think you have the answer,
you have a duty not to scorn him. Peter thought he would never deny
Jesus...and Jesus told him, sadly, that he would deny Him three times. Yet
Jesus appeared to Peter after the Resurrection and made him the leader of
the apostles when they first started out. And he denied Him AFTER he had
travelled with Him for months.
... Judge not according to appearance. - John 7:24
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 24 Dec 96 07:56:31
EID:aa2c 21983f00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0532d
DR> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
DR> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
DR> in each.
MH> fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
Is that anything like kung fu? I hate to ask what you break boards with
in
THAT discipline...
... Science asks: How? Philosophy asks: Why? And Ferrets don't care much.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:05:39
EID:b364 219850a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0532e
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
LB> LOL!!
LB> Touche.
LB> It's MUCH harder to baffle 'em with bullshit when they don't have to
LB> wait 2 days and 1000 messages between responses.
Merry Christmas.
(I notice that Mike took a somewhat different view...)
... We have our standards here on Holy Smoke ... at least two.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:30:03
EID:85d1 219853c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0532f
AS> I'M asking...
JB> All right. Here:
JB> 1) Quantum mechanics' "nonlocality" is accepted. It is experimentally
JB> demonstrable. This means the Universe's 'particles' and fields are
JB> all aware of each other "instantly."
JB> 2) Chaos theory and its dependency on "initial conditions" is
JB> accepted. Again, experimentally demonstrable.
JB> 3) The other "findings of science" which are also demonstrable, are
JB> accepted.
JB> Now: since this hypothesis of mine, in which, Spinoza-like, the
JB> Universe is "intelligent and self-aware," is the hypothesis being
JB> statistically tested, the following test is dependent upon it, and
NOT
JB> --repeat NOT-- upon any existing religion's particular interpretation
JB> of what "God" is.
JB> We assume that if the "God" exists and is as the hypothesis suggests,
JB> He/She/It can detect "human thought" and interpret that in a way
JB> meaningful to It. Thus, if you think thoughts, the "God" is presumed
JB> to be able to detect them.
JB> We further assume that if the "God" is as hypothesized, It's return
JB> influence, if NOT delivered into the brain which thought the thoughts,
JB> is capable of being detected by means of observation in the _external_
JB> world. (This is the part that excludes "subjective effects," as is
JB> necessary for any "test for God" that is "scientific" in nature: we
JB> cannot prove anything based on purely internal-subjective evidence.
JB> Lastly, due mostly to (3) above, we assume that the God's influence
JB> upon matter is minimal in the extreme --so minimal that we might not
JB> be able to detect even a photon's-worth of difference between an
JB> effect produced (by means of (2) above) in nature by the God, and one
JB> without.
JB> "Standard deviations" from _coincidence_ are the means of our
JB> detections.
JB> SO: You concentrate, meditate, and otherwise do all you can, to make
JB> the hypothesized "God" aware that you want a "sign" ---an arrangement
JB> in- the-external-world that is an effect from that God.
JB> The "sign" you ask for is consistent with the hypothesis. That is:
JB> you don't ask for a sign that is forbidden or highly unlikely given
JB> the hypothesis itself --it'll have to be a)
JB> quantum-probability-possible, b) chaos-theory constructible, and c)
JB> external to your brain.
JB> Example: "God, I want to experience some _very_ unusual external event
JB> in my environment, at a specified time and specified place, far enough
JB> in the future that You have the _time_ to arrange that event."
JB> Specific example: "God, please show me a meteorite burning up in the
JB> atmosphere, about _one_year_ from today, during a one-minute 'time
JB> window' at exactly 12:00 midnight on the Winter Solstice."
JB> (Note that this allows "God" to choose a small particle in space
JB> somewhere NOW, which is already more or less aimed in the right
JB> direction, and over the course of a year's time, subtly and without
JB> violating any quantum rules of physics, nudge it so that it arrives
JB> above your head at the time and location YOU specified.)
JB> Another example: "God, please show me _something_ (unspecified) which
JB> is highly UNlikely, in the behaviour of some animal in the area, IN
JB> [insert chosen location], AT [insert specified time]." (Which time
JB> and place are, again, far enough in the future that the "God" CAN,
by
JB> means of both Chaos theory and quantum probability, arrange what you
JB> are asking to be arranged without violation of laws of physics.)
JB> Now, you can arrange ANY such "highly unlikely coincidence," and
JB> probably do it several times before you begin to encroach on
JB> fundamental quantum probability violations. However, what you ask
JB> for, and WHEN it is to be experienced, MUST be consistent with the
JB> hypothesis that it is to be a "test" of. (Obviously, eh?)
JB> Therefore, if you do not quite understand the limitations of the
JB> "experimental setup" I am proposing for your "test of God," I ask that
JB> you submit your proposed "appiontment with God" to _me_ --the
JB> originator of this version of the Spinoza-esque "God hypothesis"--
so
JB> that I can check it to see if what you have proposed is possible,
JB> and/or likely, under the conditions of the hypothesis itself.
JB> (IOW, if you say "God, levitate a boulder on my remote farm next year
JB> at 8:37 A.M. near the old barn," I'll tell you "wrong!" (law of
JB> physics is violated: levitation against gravity). BUT: if you say,
JB> "God, make a normally very timid animal come out of the woods and
JB> right up to me, next year at 8:37 A.M. near the old barn on my remote
JB> farm," I'd _probably_ pass that one. It violates no known laws of
JB> physics, although it does require some pretty strong anti-biochemistry
JB> activity in that animals "quantum brain.")
One thinks of St. Francis of Assissi and the birds (I THINK I'm thinking
of the right saint here...)
JB> Generally, the less unlikely the event, the easier it will be for
JB> "God" to arrange it. The _important_ part of this "test" is not so
JB> much the exact nature of the event itself (you'd as easily accept the
JB> appearance of a field mouse from the woods, as a bird or a deer), as
JB> it is the TIMING and the PLACEMENT of the event. The "statisitical"
JB> nature of the test is dependent on the unlikelihood that you can ask
JB> for an unambiguously unusual 'event' _long_before_the_fact_, and have
JB> it actually come about. You are not testing God's ability to do
JB> physics violations, you are testing His ability to
JB> _detect_your_thought_, and then to _arrange_ things in advance and
to
JB> 'control' them ("evolve" them) so that the aksed-for event comes
JB> about, WITHOUT physics violations.
JB> This is a test, basically, of a) the correctness of the hypothesis
JB> that God is the "quantum nonlocal Mind of the Universe," and b) of
the
JB> idea that "God" gives enough of a damn about making an effort to
JB> convince YOU --the putative atheist, antitheist, agnostic or
JB> religionist, that He will actually arrange things to conform to the
JB> temporal and spatial conditions of YOUR personal test.
JB> It is also a test for a God effect that most religions would deny any
JB> value to, but as a scientifically minded person who _understands_
JB> what's being tested and why, _you_CAN_ recognize the
JB> statistical/scientific value of it. The test is possible because it,
JB> perhaps for the first time in "religious history," is concerned with
JB> obtaining a "sign" whose primary aspect is the unusualness of its
JB> _timing_ rather than the unusualness of its _physical_manifestation_,
JB> and which is not completely "subjective." Don't ask God to do what
He
JB> either cannot, or has not ever been observed doing. Gross physical
JB> "Miracles" don't happen; but "Providence" may 'happen all the time.'
JB> (You're merely "empiricizing Providence" with this "test for God.")
JB> (By the way, DON'T _miss_ your appointment....) (*grin*)
JB> Comments?
Interesting. It differs from my conception of God, but it is definitely
an
interesting way to do it. One question: from the way you describe it, it
sounds like your idea of God is bound by our perception of
Time...otherwise, WHEN we pray for it (or demand a test, or whatever)
would matter little. Is that correct? (If God is not bound by time, then
my praying for something right now, which has its roots in the far
past...say a change of heart in a person for an opinion they have...could
be altered AS LONG as I am not aware of the incident which I am praying
to
"change". If I am aware of it, then obviously it is out of
court...self-contradictory, like praying that Hitler never existed. But
given a God who exists OUTSIDE of Time there is nothing absurd in praying,
ohhh, for one's result in a medical exam to be good, even though the
results were actually decided days ago when you took the test. Or for the
outcome of a battle, which depends on many factors, some obviously
stretching days or weeks before. The fact that you don't know the outcome
is what allows God the freedom to change it. If you knew it, and wanted
it
changed ANYWAY, then that would be self-contradictory and paradoxical,)
(Appendix B, C.S. Lewis, MIRACLES.) I know you're trying to approach this
strictly from a scientific viewpoint, but some of the theologians have
been fooling around with the idea of a God or a Timeless Being for a long
time, and they might have a few insights that might help. Especially in
light of the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics.
It also presupposes that the God will cooperate; that we are not part of
an, ummm, "experiment" where He must keep hands off so as not to influence
the result. It's a valid assumption, but even if there is no such
happening as your test envisions, it can either mean (A) there is no such
being as you describe or (B) He chooses not to comply. Either is possible.
A third question: what do you do with those who believe in psi and think
YOU somehow influence events? Can you set up a "double-blind" experiement
somehow?
A suggestion; check the statistics on religious as opposed to
non-religious people and see how many survive long-term illness, and if
there is any statistical difference between the two groups. I think that
would apply to ANY religious group, of course,not just mine.
Still, quite ingenious. Have you tried it out?
... "This also is Thou; neither is This Thou."--Charles Williams
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:27:01
EID:73b4 21984360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05330
QF> I've recently started up on antidepressants again, although this time,
QF> I'm actually getting some counselling to go along with them. So, maybe
QF> there is hope for me after all. :)
Great!
BTW, have a happy whatever-you-have-at-this-season-of-the-year.
... ... A nudist wedding makes the best man easy to identify.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:29:35
EID:9d38 219843a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05331
QF> Oh.........................
QF> Maybe I've been too quick to judge poor Becke. Now, I feel like a bit
QF> of a dick. Does she ever go on IRC? I'll be getting a real Internet
QF> account in January, and I'd like to hear her side of things.
She's on #irc. She tried to post her version of things, but the server's
down for her BBS.
... I would sooner be notorious than unknown.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: GOD VS. SANTA CLAUS
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:47:49
EID:5967 219845e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05332
AS> But I am human...and thus can identify with the feelings of other
AS> humans.
RH> And on the basis of this you can make infallible judgements on
RH> what people will do 2,000 years ago in a different culture?
RH> I still don't think so, Al. Now you're arguing from conceit.
Well, possibly. Still,it's not like the first century is a closed book to
us. We have authors of that time.
AS> But realize what He has to endure first! Whippings, dragging the
AS> cross to Golgotha, the nails through the hands, hours of Crucifixion,
AS> a spear in the side....what made Jesus sure He would survive such?
AS> Drug or no drug, He was taking an awful chance. Would anyone these
AS> days be willing to go through an electrocution, even if he thinks he
AS> may have rigged up some insulation that MIGHT work, even if it was for
AS> a good cause?
RH> Al, in all seriousness let me ask you this; if you sincerely believed
RH> that God wanted you to do all of the above and more, would you refuse?
Well...no. Not in those terms. If I sincerely thought God wanted me to
endure all that, and then raise me from the Dead, that would be one thing.
But if you're asking me whether I would sincerely think God would want me
to perpetuate a hoax...no. (Tastes differ: I am well aware that some
people have done Christian hoaxes like the Donation of Constantine for
religious reasons. But at little risk to themselves, surely.) There's
that little thing, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you
free" and other passages extolling truth that would cause me to stop
listening to the burning bush and check in with the nearest psychiatrist.
Because why should God, who can do all things (logically possible) NEED
to
prepetuate a lie,even to bring in believers?
However, tastes differ. Son of Sam thought God told him to kill people;
and Son of Sam didn't stop and go, "Waitaminnit. But it also says do not
kill..." I just don't think, from what we know of Jesus, that He was that
sort of meglomanical loon. Schweitzer, who attempted to answer the
"madness" theory about Jesus, came to the conclusion that Jesus was NOT
mentally unbalanced in any way his training could classify.
But it's a point. He MIGHT have been that fanatical.
RH> Might you not earnestly pray, sweating blood, to be excused? And
RH> in the end, wouldn't you DO it?
RH> Think about it.
Knowing me, I'd probably chicken out or rationalize it away, I'm afraid.
But ideally, I would, IF I thought that God would save me and it didn't
entail a hoax on my part.
RH> Only if you believe them all.
AS> No; one school raised objections to the others. And all of them are
AS> good.
RH> Oh, come ON! They can't all be correct. If one plot is true, the
RH> book debunking it is wrong. Remember, the default position in
RH> science is the null hypothesis. A reasonable explanation for
RH> a proposed supernatural event is presumed true.
Let's put it this way; they all tried to prove the deficiencies of the
others' positions, and all of them made what I and others considered
logical cases. And then their opponents did the same for them. There is
no
clear consensus of a "most reasonable explanation".
That's the thing, Roger. I have yet to see a "reasonable" explanation.
I either have to think the apostles acted fantastically different from
what others would do in like circumstances, or consider that they were
just telling the truth. OR that their accounts have been distorted...but
then I realize I accept OTHER reports from roughly the same time period
that are possibly not first hand, but second hand, written decades later,
without in general doubting their veracity. What makes me decide to do so
with them and not with the Gospels, except a convinction that miracles do
not happen? And such would be a perfectly fine conclusion...UNLESS we are
talking about the actions of a Being who MAY have determined what is
possible or not possible.
... I have NOT lost my mind, I left it over there, I think....
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:20:30
EID:ffe7 21985280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05333
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
JJ> losers.
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
JJ> to hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet
as
JJ> a testimony against them.""
Refuse to hear us? Only those who have me twitted...see, Jesse, there are
two components there.
But you must do as you think best; you were here before me, and have
tried to do what you think best; I did not always agree with all of your
stands, but I do not doubt your sincerity or your faith.
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
Thanks, mine could use all the prayer I can get. In fact..while you're at
it...
(Consulting the scoresheet) Lessee now, Mike's not on this side of the
fence any more, Dave Oostermann is gone, hmmmm....
Why do I suddenly feel I'm at Ground Zero?
... Unpopular Bible Fact: Hatred of others is unChristian. (1 John 4)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:01:17
EID:7d97 21984820
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05334
MH> Isn't it immoral to cause someone's eternity to depend on whether
MH>they guess right?
JJ> Michael, as I said to you before you elected to join ranks
JJ> with the Rice Brothers, a Christian faith which is premised on a
Join ranks with--? Something about your parentage we don't know, Mike?
Should I have notified YOU, too?
... "An eye for an eye" only ends up making the whole world blind ...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:09:10
EID:25f4 21984920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05335
AS> Sorry? You don't think the universe as a whole is electrically
AS> neutral?
MH> He gets a charge out of it. :-)
Shocking answer, Mike.
... Being psychotic is all it's cracked up to be.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:21:20
EID:f499 219852a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05336
AS> You don't think the universe as a whole is electrically neutral?
RC>
RC> I wonder how you would propose to actually measure any net electrical
RC> charge for the entire cosmos, Al.
By the actions of the cosmos. Alfven, for instance, has proposed a "plasma
cosmology" where the expansion of the universe is explained by plasma
physics. It doesn't explain the distrubution of elements, so I dismiss it,
as most cosmologists do, in favor of the Big Bang theory, and regard the
universe as a whole as electrically neutral. Because if it wasn't, there
would be consequences.
AS> To balance out exactly? But then we just have the same
AS> coincidence in slightly different guise. It still is the
AS> balancing out that is remarkable.
RC>
RC> On the contrary, a state of equilibrium is quite natural.
Between matter and antimatter? Nope. Between gravity and an opposing
force, equally strong? (The cosmological constant, if there is one, is
incredibly weak.) Uh uh. Not everything in nature are in equilibrium.
... Last time you knew all the answers, you were wrong...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:24:49
EID:0643 21984b00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05337
RC> Consider. Even if you had "given permission" before I posted your
RC> junk email, I would still consider it utterly irrelevant. Since
RC> your permission is neither legally required, nor ethically required,
RC> I consider its existence or nonexistence _insignificant_.
RC> Nothing you said would affect my standard policy towards junk email.
That you initiated, after I reposted what you had missed in Fido?
RC> Let's see, shall we?
Let's.
RC>
RC> :
RC> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
RC> : From: al.schroeder@nashville.com
RC> : Reply-To: al.schroeder@nashville.com
RC> : Subject: your babbling logical fal
RC> : To: CURRY@GTE.NET
RC> : Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 03:05:00
RC> :
: Cu> Replies to your excessively babbling examples of logical fallacies
: Cu> have been posted to HOLYSMOKE, where they belong.
RC> :
RC> : Good. So have mine. Where you will be caught in a contradiction of
RC> your : own words.
RC> :
RC> :
RC> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
RC>
RC> Are you now trying to say that you seriously expected that my replies
RC> would not quote extensively from your emailed bullshit, Al?
Certainly. We were discussing, among other things, the Fido posts. You
have perhaps noted the "so have mine". Did I ever reply to your email
on the echo? Yet from the phrase above, it appears that I already posted
such responses, correct?
What I referred to was, of course, your statement about what "helped
define a probabilistic sample space", which I had just read while you were
emailing to me. And sent my response to IT. Which was a Fido post I was
responding to.
So unless you think you can show an example where _I_ sent responses to
the email onto the echo, what you yourself quoted refutes you.
AS> I did say it was okay to post in the echo.
RC>
RC> So explain why are you whining so much about my doing EXACTLY THAT.
Because it's so much fun to see you talk about "junk email" that you
initiated.
... Nothing is wrong with you that reincarnation can't cure.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:30:40
EID:a3ca 21984bc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05338
ML> Food for thought department.
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications after a
ML> two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
If you were God, who would YOU rather have close to you?
(Not doubting that the loss of Sagan is a loss to us all, though, that
remain here...)
... "Bother," said Capt. Pooh, as antimatter containment was lost.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:22:33
EID:a863 219852c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c05339
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
MH> Hmmmm ... I didn't see that until Lynda pointed it out, Al, but she
MH> may be right.
I'm showing how old-fashioned I am about some things, Mike, but thinking
about you "sucking up" to ANYTHING isn't something I like to think
about...
Okay, funny response over. I said this the other night, Mike, but just
so everyone here understands...
Mike, I said this the other night on #irc, but let me reiterate. You are
my friend, you will always be my friend, whether you believe or not. I
have friends among the nonbelievers here and enemies among the theists.
(Ceppa and Appleton come to mind) and your change in religious status does
not affect that at all.
The fact that your change in status DOES affect some others is something
to be grateful for, because they used to badmouth you pretty badly. I know
you did not do it for that, and would never do it for that. You have shown
your bravery again and again in facing those who would criticize you. If
you
were going to change for those reasons, you would have done it long
before.
Trust your first instinct, Mike. You never let anyone make up your mind
FOR you....ever. And I know you too well to think anyone can do so now.
Including and especially me.
... Type unto others as you would have them type unto you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:00:28
EID:41ba 21985000
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c0533a
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper. He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
MH> There's a camp? And me without my insect repellent ...
There'll be canoing down the Doubt River later, here at wonderful Camp
Whoknows?
... She needs a kidney. No problem, she hasn't rejected an organ for years
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 20:35:58
EID:2cc4 2198a460
Whilst masticating on , Martin Goldberg (1:124/9005.221)
wrote to Alan Hess:
AH>> The Colts are still in Indianapolis. "The devil on Earth" aka
AH>> Bob Irsay had a major stroke, which I suppose has curtailed his
AH>> booze intake.
MG> Think we can buy one of those for Jerry Jones?
If his team keeps getting trounced by the likes of the Foreskins, he'll
probably have one for free.
--- MsgedSQ/2 3.35
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ALL
|Sub: So Long
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:27:49
EID:fd87 21988360
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 729e552d
Well, fans, I'm off to kill myself.
My wife is at the compter next to me listening to something ont he radio
which isa combination of "Jingle Bells", "The Macarena", and a cat meowing.
No one need call my wife about his, as she is about to die from picking
all the almonds out of the mixed nuts again.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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PATH: 124/9005
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Goldberg, the jerk... Vegeterians?
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:03:58
EID:7a88 21996860
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9a225
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 7c46f656
BW> Oh poor confused Martin. Of course evolution happens. Yes, some
BW> things change over time. But the evolution theory has you know it
BW> doesn't explain everything. Like how some species just appear
BW> without any link to any other species.
You are very stupid, Billy, to post anything which shows evolution to happen.
You are a fundy who wishes that he had never lied about Dr. Sagan.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:04:46
EID:a65f 21996880
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9a38b
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 79e6084e
MG>> Did the officers have nicer latrines than the GI's or did
MG>> they let you even clean the officer's latrine?
BW> When you finally start talking intelligently, we'll talk.
Funny. No on here but you thinks that I've said anything out of place.
Even the deists are laughing at you.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:05:25
EID:19bc 219968a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9a594
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 4a3f6151
MG>> Do you have a little sign we can pin to your back that says
MG>> "kick me?"
BW> No, but I did make up a poster which says: "Martin Goldberg is a
BW> dick head!" Does this count?
Sure it does. Is it right next to the little sign that says "Carl Sagaan
is a creationist?"
ROTFL!
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:06:40
EID:7901 219968c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9a978
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 8d293174
BW> Poor David the moron sees shit that ain't there again. What a
BW> twit! For the zillionth time, please show me where I called
BW> the late Carl Sagan a creationist. But like always, you'll
BW> refuse to.
> > BW> Okay where do you want me to start? How about with Carl
> > BW> Sagan? In his book Cosmos, he candidly admits "The fossil
> > BW> evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great
> > BW> Designer."
End of quote. Nothing about the great designer being non existant.
Billy loses again. Or will you just ignore the evidence that you are a
moron and a liar?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ALL
|Sub: Billy "Liar" Wolff
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:08:00
EID:ada4 21996900
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9aada
Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Constipated!
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:14:17
EID:4b58 219969c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9be6f
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8661384b
LA> Quack! I thank you for providing the following appropriate
LA> answer to you!
It's amusing that you have no words of your own, but have to quote this
thing that I sent you.
If you stopped quoting eminent sceintists out of context and lying about
wht others have to say and tried to understand the issues, you'd be a happier
man.
You have made the classic error of making yur conclusions and then trying
to find the data to fit them. There being none, you lie about it.
spare me your quotes, your lies about Darwina nd Popper, and your endless
ramblings about scientific topics that you know nothing about.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:20:01
EID:1322 21996a80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9df8f
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd4
CG> Its OK. You can curse and swear at me face-to-face Mr Goldberg.
Next time I come to London, you can give me the chance.
CG> You Sir, are a Coward of the first water. Your ego is only
CG> surpassed by your god.
Funny. I was going to say prcisely the same thing to you.
CG> I'd call you out, but I'm damned if I can find a set of pistols
CG> with barrels long enough!
Too bad we don't have ICBM's pointed at Britain.
CG> As to arguing from a particular side of the fence; sorry I don't
CG> have one, in this echo, if you want to tackle sides of a
When I hear this sort of thing, it makes me think that the other person
either
1. Is frightened of hiving his/her views queried, or
2. They have no arguements.
CG> fence then I suggest a Debate echo - but frankly I find most
CG> arguements boring, largely because most protagionists spend
CG> more time argueing about the spelling, punctuation and
CG> grammar than about the ideas supposedly being debated.
You will not find that in here, especially from me. You wnat to debate,
I'll be happy to debate you. You have a serious problem with your ego.
This is the thing that touched me off. Viewpoints do not touch me off unless
their owners are cornered and refuse to recant them.
CG> I am a NON-DEIST, which means that I have NO belief in the
CG> existence of a 'God' or 'gods'.
And what do you base this one?
CG> {Incidentally, those people claiming to be atheists, are
CG> claiming, by their definition of themselves, not to believe
CG> in a single God, but must believe in multiple gods. People
CG> who have no belief in any form of God or gods are
CG> non-deists.}
Non sequitir. I do not believe in a god. I do nto believe in many gods.
I do not believe in any form of deity construct not Christian, Jewish, Hindu,
Shinto, et al.
CG> It is therefore, more than likely, that I will argue from many
CG> positions at the same time - my main interest in this echo is
CG> to explore:
CG> The Social History and Psychology of Belief
A good topic. It seems straightforward to me that god was invented by people
and that the bibles of the OT and NT were written by men, accounting for
the errors that are in them.
Belief is something that is easy to get ahold of. It seems natural to many
as it is easy to accpet something rather than question it. Why do they
insist on making more money when it might be better if they didn't or having
a new car every year when it might be better if they didn't. It's the human
way of taking the easy way out of a situation where thought is required.
CG> May I suggest we shake hands, and try to be polite to one another
CG> in future. :-)
OK by me. You will need to remember that this is basically a "flame" echo.
No one holds back and those with a thin skin will soon be told where to
take their thin skin. If you don't wnt you values judged then you might
not want to mess with it.
And lay off of the ego trip. It's a real turn off.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:35:14
EID:46e7 21996c60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9ea95
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32bf3341
SQ> The Cannonball Run. The line David quoted is one from Dean
SQ> Martin. He and Sammy Davis are driving across the country (in
Sounds wonderful.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 25 Dec 96 13:36:04
EID:c1b3 21996c80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 72a9ee65
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bef6b0
BW>> Poor Don also believes that I had taken Carl Sagan out of
BW>> context and called him a creationists.
DM> I said so three years ago quite explicitly to you with
DM> quotations: I have kept neither the quotations nor my note. Deny
DM> what you will, twist to gratify your ego, blather all you want
DM> about
DM> it.
Billy is quickly becoming the echo punching bag. I notice that he is posting
more and enjoying it less. The roasting that he gets here will verly likely
leave him lifelong scars which can only be sastified by torturing small
rodents by boring them to death.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Boring moron
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:25:01
EID:6068 21985320
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32c0bf20
Curtis Johnson said "BORING MORON" to Bill Wolff, adding:
CJ> From your "messages" in my last packet:
[all deleted with a yawn]
CJ> You have the honor of being the occasion for the coining of
CJ> a new portmanteau word:
CJ> Wolff, you are a boron.
And that's "norob" spelled backwards. What does norob mean?
Nothing. But then, neither does Wolff.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:26:59
EID:11b1 21985b40
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2571c31f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bcc483
On 21 Dec 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
AS> figure, Valentine Michael Smith, also an avatar for an angel.
JB> I've just re-read it. He makes a _clear_ suggestion that it's the
JB> archangel Michael. (After Mike discorporates Digby, and Digby objects
AS> Right. BTW, ever read his JOB? To really enjoy it, it helps if you
AS> have read Cabell first...because Koschei, the power behind all gods,
AS> is lefted from Cabell directly into Heinlein's scenario.
(*Hmmm.... hole in my reading list....Cabell....)
I've read every novel Heinlein wrote, including "Job." My first S-F
novel was "Star Beast" --at the age of 12 or so-- followed by Andre
Norton's "Ad Astra." Then "Red Planet" and onward from there for eight
or nine hundred other novels (excluding short stories) over the years.
JB> _more_ pertinent today than it was in the early sixties....
AS> Yes. I've heard, off and on, that there is going to be a movie about
AS> it...last person I've heard mentioned for Mike was Tom Hanks. Not my
AS> image of Mike, though.
No, nor mine. I've heard the rumor. That task has got to be
equivalently difficult to the movie-ization of "Dune," which in my
opinion failed --if not quite miserably. As you note, though, "Starship
Troopers" IS being produced. That one's not _nearly_ as hard to put on
screen as "Stranger..." would be. IMHO, Valentine Michael Smith had
better be a completely unknown actor with an _incredible_ range....
AS> Heinlein got a lot of us by writing GOOD juvenile sf. In most school
....And Andre Norton...
AS> libraries, he was there, with things like RED PLANET and such. So
My daughters are 11 and 12, the 12-year-old about three years' worth of
subjective maturation ahead of the 11-year-old. This Christmas, the
elder gets "Stranger..." and the younger gets "Red Planet." (I'm going
to hint to the elder that Stranger... is a "very dangerous book"....*g*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Imagination is more important than knowledge."--Einstein
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 24 Dec 96 23:20:00
EID:9b7e 2198ba80
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b397413a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 010dbf85
> In a message to All you wrote:
[JOHN JEANNEAULT]
> JJ>> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the
> JJ>> HolySmokers fun by no longer posting here. There is nothing
> JJ>> of fairness,
[JESSE JONES]
> JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my
> JJ> time with you losers.
>
> Anybody want to start a betting pool?
WOW. Did he really say "convicted"? I missed that the first time.
---
* Origin: This line made from 66% recycled bits. (1:152/20)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Holiday Wishes:
|Date: 25 Dec 96 01:34:50
EID:ff6f 21990c40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c0cc301
Well everyone, it's that day. Today we celebrate a
holiday which is the birth date of a man born of a virgin,
with lowly shepherds in attendance. He was a man known as
"The Way," "The Truth," "The Light," "The Life," "The Word,"
"The Son of God," and "The Good Shepherd." In fact, he was
often pictured carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Sunday, his
Lord's Day, is considered sacred to him, and has been for
some time. Today we celebrate his life with the traditional
methods surrounding him: gifts, hymns, candles, bells, and
perhaps even communion. This man died and was put into a
rock tomb, but rose from it after only three days. Because
he rose, his followers believe that there will someday be a
day of judgment where nonbelievers will perish, and believers
will go to paradise forever. That's right, today is THE
Taurobolia in which we celebrate the Messiah Mithra. {A}
Ooops, waitaminit . . . I think I was confused there.
Give me a second . . .
No, the man/Deity I speak of is someone different.
Because of him, we know of a loving father God who is
omniscient and concerned for our welfare, since we are his
children. Because of him, we can look forward to the Kingdom
of God, Heaven, and don't have to worry about Hell, since we
know we will rise again after we die . . . he is often called
the Sun, and he was later made the supreme Deity of the Roman
Empire in his title of Sol Invictus. We know of his angels
and archangels, and we know of Satan. But our beliefs, which
concentrates on works rather than on faith, will sustain us.
I'm speaking of, of course, our faith in Zarathushtra, and
our religion of Zoroastrianism. {B}
Dang, that's not quite right either.
Okay, he was a Deity that was killed without a bone
being broken. He is our symbol of immortality, and he and his
father are one: he is the manifesting son of God. He is
known as the light of the world, and is the way, the truth,
and the life by name and in person. He is the one true plant
(vine?). He came down from Heaven, and in him has been
assigned Eternity. He is a light that drives away the
darkness. He was baptized by someone known as the Baptizer,
and was born in a place associated with bread. He is known
as the good shepherd, and is often depicted with a lambing
crook. He is the Lamb and the Lion, and is identified with
the cross and referred to as the Crst. He is part of the
Trinity . . . he is a son of a virgin and the son of the
Supreme Deity. He was carried off by the Evil One to the
mountain top, where they contended. A star indicated his
birth, and he is known as both the bringer of peace and he
who brings the sword. As a child, he taught in the temple,
and later had twelve followers, attested to in the
revelations written by another. I'm speaking of, of course,
the God Horus.{C}
All right, I've got it this time . . .
This Deity/Savior was immaculately conceived and born of
a spotless virgin (attended by angels and shepherds), through
the agency of a holy ghost and in accord with prophecy. At
birth he was presented with frankincense, myrrh, etc. While
an infant, he was threatened with death by the ruling tyrant,
but his parents fled with him, the tyrant slaughtering all
the male children under two years of age. He was saluted and
worshipped as the savior of men, and lived a life of humility
and practical moral usefulness. He wrought many astounding
miracles, including healing the sick, restoring the sight of
the blind, casting out devils, raising the dead to life, and
so on. He was finally crucified between two thieves.
Afterwards, he descended to Hell, rose from the dead, and
ascended back to Heaven in the sight of all men, as his
biblical history declares. I'm speaking, of course, of our
savior Virishna. {F}
Dammitalltohell.
He was born of a spotless virgin and led a life of deep
humility and piety. He retired to the wilderness and fasted
for forty days, was worshipped as a God, and was finally
crucified between two thieves, after which he was buried and
descended into Hell, but rose the third day. His name was
Quexalcote . . . {F}
Uh . . .
He was born of a virgin, who was visited by an angel to
tell her that she carried the young godling. He is
considered to be god incarnate. His human father was a
carpenter, though the child was of royal descent. He was
called `Savior' and was without sin. He was crucified
between two thieves. We shall meet him again on the great
and final day of judgment. His name was, of course, Krishna
. . . {F}
Well, something's clearly wrong here . . .
. . . no, this isn't getting anywhere ,
. . . nor is this
Well, to hell with it. Let's all just get drunk and go
naked. Where's my presents? Happy and safe holidays to you
and yours.
Sources: (Though there are many sources listed here, they all
in reality come from {D}, which has many articles and much
information reprinted in the collection. I recommend it
highly.)
{A} Information for this came from Volume 2, Issue 9, edition
of The Edelen Letter, from September 1992.
{B} Information for this came from The World Bible, Edited by
Robert O. Ballou.
{C} Churchward's book Of Religion, first published in 1924.
{D} The Book. Also called: The Book Your Church Doesn't Want
You To Read, edited by Tim C. Leedom, ISBN 0-8403-8908-6.
{E} Ye Gods by Anne Baumgartner.
{F} Kersey Graves, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors,
Truth Seeker Co., New York, 1875.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: Syr Undry BBS ):> Bendigaid };> (916) 922-9046 (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Re: End Times are upon us! Again. And again. And again. And again.
|Date: 23 Dec 96 00:46:40
EID:932d 219705c0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 9149d54c
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 728416ea
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt J.j. utter:
JH> Of course, leave it to the Mormons to screw up any good idea, even
JH> if it's one of their own. The hoarding isn't done on a simple family
JH> by family basis: it's overseen and managed so that one family ends
JH> up with all the toilet paper and sanitary products, another with all
JH> soap products, another with some other consumable.
That's pretty stupid. What if the family with all the contraceptives decides
that they don't want to be mormons anymore?
IMHO, if you're a survivalist and you want to do well in the coming end
times
(REAL soon now... they promise :] ), you'd be wise to stockpile hemp seeds.
Not only can you make all kinds of cool stuff with the plant, you can trade
the actual marijuana with others for even more cool stuff.
Of course, the good Christian survivalists would probably try to wipe you
out for having any amount of "the devil's weed".
... "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh "BOB" D'lyeh Wgah'nagl Dhobbz f'htagn."
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Re: Alignment list
|Date: 23 Dec 96 01:11:58
EID:c279 21970960
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 cad6d465
TID: GE/32 1.2
KW>> -------------
KW>> Name Location Alignment In the
KW>> 'Smoke
Quentin Fai Lethbridge, Born again Since Spring
Alberta, Subgenius of '93
B-day Canada, (Atheist)
May 4th Eh?
... Hey! Who put beer in the LSD?
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: Comrade Fredric
|Date: 23 Dec 96 01:20:52
EID:af5f 21970a80
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 452c7eba
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439B
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Michael utter:
MH> Florida State University?
"FSU, FSU, where the women are women and the men are, too"
... I love sex - I just wish I had someone to share it with..
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Dec 96 01:38:16
EID:e2aa 21970cc0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 f54cdac4
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 0469137e
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt David utter:
DW> Females (with very few exceptions) weigh less then males of the same
DW> height/build. Your daughter is shorter *and* heavier than I am. It's
a
DW> simple equation. Your adamant denial of the solution to the equation
DW> does nothing but amuse me even more.
I'm a little curious as to why this is a concern of yours. She's not even
old
enough to date you, and even if she was, nobody would be making you date
her.
... Guns and bullets don't kill people. HOLES do.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
SEEN-BY: 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/27 2803/1
SEEN-BY: 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1
SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: Re: LDS Papal Baptisms, R
|Date: 24 Dec 96 03:41:52
EID:685c 21981d20
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 00202c3d
REPLY: 1:266/977.0 2970f88f
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Becke utter:
BJ> Quentin: Why the hell should I have even bothered telling him I was
BJ> engaged?? We had been broken up for a couple of months at that point--
BJ> I considered him a good friend and nothing more. Hell, most of my
BJ> friends (with the exception of those on #holysmoke, who Paul (my
BJ> husband) and I talk to on a nightly basis) had no idea about this.
I had assumed that Sean was telling the truth. The way he made it sound,
it
was as though you two were in a really serious relationship.
BJ> As far as you go--everything I said I meant. A positive attitude IS
BJ> everything. I'm married now, incredibly happy, and doing quite well.
That's good to hear. While I don't have a girlfriend now, I am in counselling
for my depression. So, maybe there's hope for me after all. :)
BJ> Paul and I were pretty good friends before we got married. And no, I'm
BJ> not pregnant, I assure you. Don't jump to conclusions without knowing
BJ> the whole story. The distored half you're getting from Sean isn't even
BJ> close.
As I have since discovered. Sean had implied that you had just met the guy.
Sean had implied a lot of things that I later discovered weren't true.
BJ> I thought I knew you better than this, Quentin. I guess I was wrong.
I admit that I formed an opinion about you without knowing the whole story,
and I also admit that I was wrong in doing so, and I apologize for it.
... Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gerry Danen
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 24 Dec 96 23:43:00
EID:1f84 2198bd60
INTL 1:342/5013 1:342/1017
PID: MjF 3.25
MSGID: 1:342/1017 32c0b0e9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8093
RS> CG> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th, and a Good New Year.
RS> GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid
RS> GD> of the word Christmas and what it stands for?
RS> He is in England, where it is called something else. And it
RS> has different names around the world.
I'll bet it's called Christmas in England...
RS> Don't be anglocentric.
Excuse me?
RS> He's expressing it that way because he wants to.
I can appreciate that, but why are you speaking for Chris?
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
This is an English echo, I thought... Sorry, but I can call you names
in a different language too...
--- MajorBBS v6.25
* Origin: C+Net BBS * Edmonton, AB Canada * 403-477-9545 (1:342/1017)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 342/1017 5013 61 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: query
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:13:52
EID:cb89 219741a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be6685
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
You wouldn't happen to be the Goldberg who was teamed with Sticker?
Dealing with immunology?
The same person who Michael Martinez quotes frequently and extensively?
(To be found in the echo Gender and Feminism)
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Xstream 44-151-488-0698 V21-V34+ [OS2/Max3.01/Md1.10] (2:250/210)
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: martinez [1/4]
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:20:26
EID:9c89 21974280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be6686
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 1 of 4...
If this is your article, then this is some of the stuff that MM is
posting:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Golberg and Stricker. HIV Protease and the Pathogenesis of
AIDS. Research in Virology. 1996. Nov/Dec, 147. 375-379.
D Area: Feminism and Gender Issues DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Msg#: 118 Date: 28 Nov 96 05:04:46
From: Michael Martinez Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: All Mark:
Subj: protease inhibitors, for the layman
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
* Crossposted from: HIV is 'harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
[provided by Tim Hand]
[-An english translation of a Dr. Goldberg-Stricker article, see the immediate
post to follow for the ref. to this article. -mike]
Proteases are enzymes that break down proteins. They break the peptide
bonds linking the amino acids that make up proteins. This protein catabolism
provides, among other things, energy for ATP synthesis and intermediaries
for
the synthesis of other essential non-protein molecules. Thus our proteases
are essential for the normal functioning of our cells and organs.
Re the article: HIVs protease facilitates processing of HIV at the
host cell surface and also processes viral proteins inside the host cell.
Thus HIVs viability is dependent on its protease. An essential point the
authors make is that many host (human) proteins are also substrates for
HIV
protease, and that HIV protease can therefore disrupt normal AIDS.
The authors suggest the following: the anti-HIV protease inhibitors
(PI) are not selective for HIV protease; they are indiscriminate and act
against host (human) protease as well as the protease of genuine AIDS
pathogens (fungi, protozoa). They are also indiscriminate disruptors of
microtubules (a cell organelle). Their seemingly good clinical activity
may
stem from their antimicrotubule effect in genuine AIDS pathogens (fungi,
protozoa). Their purported ability to resolve KS lesions in some persons
likewise may be due to their anti-microtubule effects, which are akin to
those of vinblastine, a chemotherapy often used against KS.
PI-associated inhibition of protein catabolism extends well beyond HIV
protease. Normal proteolysis in human cells is also targeted, thereby
damaging organs and producing the side effects being seen clinically.
Particularly troubling is the interference with cytochrome P-450 (which
could produce hepatic dysfunction) and the possibility of cleavage of
proteins at inappropriate sites (known to be the basis for Alzheimers
disease).
The authors believe that the variability seen from one patient to the next
in
terms of incubation period, which disease will be manifested, etc., is
associated not with HIV activity but rather with variability in the strength
of the hosts cell-mediated immunity (CMI). As I mentioned in my recent
article in Reappraising, it has been repeatedly shown in the literature
that long-term survivors have strong CMI, as measured by high CD8 and
NK
cell counts and by strong delayed-type hypersensitivity responses (like
those
in tests for anergy). Long term survivors also seem to have a habit of
avoiding antiretroviral toxins, which are known to damage CMI (see Levy
et al
Science 271, p 670 and Immunol. Today 17, p 217 for some info on this).
It is clear that the authors sympathize with one version of the HIV
hypothesis: that HIV protease is the culprit behind the clinical
manifestations of AIDS because, since it has an affinity for many host
proteins, it randomly cleaves [host] proteins involved in appropriate
cellular functioning of macrophages. But they bring up the essential point
that NO anti-HIV drug and NO protease inhibitor will ever work against AIDS.
Indeed, there can never be any such thing as an HIV-specific protease
inhibitor. The best way to approach the disease is not to attack HIV
but
to enhance host CMI. This can be done with cheap and widely available
contact sensitizers such as dinitrochlorobenzene (DNCB), discussed briefly
in
my article.
I hope this summary does the article justice. I would urge anyone interested
in further info to contact the authors directly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I include the below, as this is his current angle of attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 151 Date: 30 Nov 96 16:38:50
From: Michael Martinez Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: All Mark:
Subj: serious side effects from protease inhibitors
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
* Crossposted from: HIV is 'harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
[from ACTUP San Francisco]
More dangers reported by Abbott laboratories regarding its protease inhibitor
Norvirx (ritonavir). These adverse events (based on "postmarketing
experience") indicate that had these drugs been sufficiently studied prior
to
>>> Continued to next message...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
* Origin: Xstream 44-151-488-0698 V21-V34+ [OS2/Max3.01/Md1.10] (2:250/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
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SEEN-BY: 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 250/210 442/403 440/410 170/400 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: martinez [2/4]
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:20:28
EID:d889 21974280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be6687
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 2 of 4...
approval rather than rushed through the process at the behest of bought-off
"AIDS" activists, perhaps the consequent loss of HIV-positive lives could
have been prevented.
Note that the most severe toxicities are "hepatic" in nature meaning that
these compounds are pure poison for the many of us already, and perhaps
unknowingly, suffering from concomitant Hepatitis B or C infection.
Despite the pop-culture hype promoting these agents as "the cure" it is
increasingly apparent that for many, especially those of us in late-stage
AIDS, these products are our final death sentence.
Time to wake up and smell the corpses! There's mass murder in our midst.
And
it has a $15,000.00 a year price tag. Bet your bottom dollar the next Abbott
warning concerns protease + ecstacy. Our friends are already dropping over
on
the dance floors.
==========
Pharmaceutical Products Division
Abbott Laboratories
200 Abbott Park Road
Abbott Park, IL 60064-3537
November, 1996
IMPORTANT DRUG WARNING
Dear Health Care Provider"
I am writing you with important new safety and prescribing information about
Norvirx (ritonavir), Abbott's HIV protease inhibitor. The Norvir Product
Information has been updated to reflect new information about drug
interactions and adverse effects based on postmarketing experience. New
information on the interaction of Norvir in combination with Invirasex
(saquinavir, Roche) has also been added. And finally, a review of the
importance of dose titration upon the initiation of Norvir therapy is
included.
NEW DRUG INTERACTIONS:
* Ergot alkaloid preparations have been added as contraindications. Based
on
postmarketing experience, coadministration of ritonavir with ergotamine
or
dihydroergotamine has been associated with acute ergot toxicity characterized
by peripheral vasospasm and ischemia of the extremities. Some of the patients
received treatment with vasodilators.
* Pimozide (Orapx, Gate Pharmaceuticals) has also been added as a
contraindication, based on a predicted interaction between Norvir and
pimozide.
* Cardiac and neurologic events have been reported in postmarketing
experience when ritonavir has been coadministered with disopyramide,
mexiletine, nefazadone, or fluoxetine. The possibility of drug interaction
in
these cases cannot be excluded. The list of medications whose plasma level
may be potentially affected when used with Norvir (Table 3) has been updated.
* Two phase I interaction studies evaluated the single-dose and multiple-dose
pharmacokinetic interactions between ritonavir and saquinavir in healthy
non-HIV infected volunteers. Results were consistent with the fact that
ritonavir is a potent CYP 3A4 inhibitor. Saquinavir plasma concentrations
were increased significantly (greater than 20-fold increased in
concentrations) when coadministered with ritonavir. The pharmacokinetics
of
ritonavir were not significantly affected with the coadministration of
saquinavir. This information has been added to the Drug Interaction section.
A study to determine antiviral activity, safety, and pharmacokinetics of
the
combination of ritonavir and saquinavir in HIV-infected patients is ongoing.
This study enrolled approximately 130 HIV-infected patients and includes
four
treatment arms. Preliminary results including safety were presented at the
XI
International Conference on AIDS in Vancouver, Canada and the 36th ICAAC
Meeting in New Orleans, LA. However, the appropriate doses for this
combination, with respect to safety and activity, has not been established.
POSTMARKETING ADVERSE EVENTS
* The WARNINGS section of the product information on Norvir has been revised
to include the following information:
To alert the health care provider about the potential for hypersensitivity
reactions with Norvir therapy. This section states that allergic reactions
including urticaria, mild skin eruptions, bronchospasm, angioedema, and
rarely, anaphylaxis and Stevens-Johnson syndrome have been reported.
Hepatic transaminase elevations exceeding 5 times the upper limit of normal,
clinical hepatitis, and jaundice have occurred in patients receiving Norvir
alone or in combination with other antiretroviral drugs (see Table 5). There
may be an increased risk for transaminase elevations in patients with
underlying hepatitis B or C. Therefore, caution should be exercised when
administering Norvir to patients with pre-existing liver diseases, liver
enzyme abnormalities, or hepatitis.
There have been postmarketing reports of hepatic dysfunction, including
some
fatalities. These have generally occurred in patients taking multiple
concomitant medications and/or with advanced AIDS. A definitive causal
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: martinez [3/4]
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:20:28
EID:2488 21974280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be6688
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 3 of 4...
relationship has not been established.
* The PRECAUTIONS sections has been updated to include the following
statement:
As with other HIV protease inhibitors, there have been reports of increased
bleeding, including spontaneous skin hematomas and hemarthrosis, in patients
with hemophilia type A and B receiving ritonavir. In some patients additional
factor VIII was given. In more than half of the reported cases, treatment
with protease inhibitors was continued or reintroduced. A causal relationship
has not been established.
* The ADVERSE REACTIONS section has been revised as follows:
There have been postmarketing reports of seizure. Hyperglycemia has been
reported in individuals with and without a known history of diabetes. Cause
and effect relationship has not been established. Dehydration, usually
associated with gastrointestinal symptoms, and sometimes resulting in
hypertension, syncope, or renal insufficiency has been reported. Syncope,
orthostatic hypotension, and renal insufficiency have also been reported
without known dehydration.
* The OVERDOSE section has been updated. Renal failure with cosinophilia
has
been reported with ritonavir overdose.
DOSE TITRATION
Use of the dose titration schedule may help to reduce treatment-emergent
adverse events while maintaining appropriate plasma levels. Ritonavir should
be started at no less than 300 mg twice daily and increased by 100 mg twice
daily increments up to 600 mg twice daily. Patients should be aware that
frequently observed adverse events, such as mild to moderate gastrointestinal
disturbances and paraesthesias, may diminish as therapy is continued.
There have been reports of difficulty I distinguishing between the names
ritonavir and Retrovir (zidovudine, Glaxo Wellcome Inc.) on prescription,
resulting inpatients receiving wrong medication. It is recommended that
physicians use the trademark name, Norvir, when prescribing ritonavir.
Norvir is indicated in combination with nucleoside analogues or as
monotherapy for the treatment of HIV-infection when therapy is warranted.
For
patients with advanced HIV disease, this indication is based on the results
from a study that showed as reduction in both mortality and AIDS-defining
clinical events for patients who received Norvir. Median duration of
follow-up in this study was 6 months. The clinical benefit from Norvir
therapy for longer periods of treatment is unknown. For patients with less
advanced disease, this indication is based on changes in surrogate markers
in
studies evaluating patients who received Norvir alone or in combination
with
other antiretroviral agents.
The most common adverse events in the clinical studies included nausea,
diarrhea, weakness, and taste perversion. Many other adverse events, some
potentially serious, have been noted with the use of ritonavir. See the
Norvir Product Information for a more complete list.
Enclosed is a copy of the Norvir Product Information, and updated Health
Care
Professional Drug Interaction and Patient Dosing Interaction Cards. If you
would like further medical information please contact Medical Services at
1-800-633-9110. If you would like additional copies of the Patient Dosing
Interaction Card, ask your Abbott HIV Specialist or Medical Center
Representative, or call 1-800-441-4987.
Sincerely,
David Pizzuti, M.D.,
Divisional Vice President
Medical Affairs and Pharmaceutical Ventures
Enclosures:
Norvirx (ritonavir) Product Information, Abbott Laboratories
Health Care Professional Drug Interaction Card
Patient Drug Interaction Pocket Card
c 1996, Abbott Laboratories * Ref. 03-4720-R3 * Nov. 1996 * Printed in U.S.A.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently, I am getting him to do some research for me, not because I
particularly want his stuff, but to keep him busy.
DIGIT has its own network, which will extend into the US in mid 97, so I
hope to be able to divert him onto our net.
I don't agree with anything about him; however, when you push fanatics
underground, this makes their ideas more volatile. The safest place for
the MM's of the world is right out in the open where everyone can see
them, and where a balanced view of the subject is possible.
It is my view that as long as people argue, debate, talk, air their
views, or whatever in the public forum, then there is not much wrong;
but when people stop talking, this is when violence is not far away.
We were taught that in hostage situations we must ensure that the
terrorists continued to talk to us; in a way MM takes echoes hostage, he
is a sort of cyber-terrorist.
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: martinez [4/4]
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:20:30
EID:5089 21974280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be6689
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 4 of 4...
Peace be with you,
Chris
... Believe in a loving God, infidel, or die!
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Job/Problem with pain
|Date: 23 Dec 96 09:34:32
EID:5f52 21974c40
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be668a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to All <=-
CG> I am at a crossroads in my studies, since I am currently learning
CG> hebrew (canaanite) and aramaic; so it will be a while before I can
CG> continue.
ML> Looks like a Wiens-wannabe in training.
Wienerschnitzel?
Nothing like good curry sauce with it as well.
To study source material Marty, you have to be able to read it. You
can't argue accurately, if you are relying upon other peoples'
translations.
To debunk religion you have to reach into its history, and tear the guts
out of the foundations - pissing around on the roof just gets the
guttering wet!
Chris
... Believe in a loving God, infidel, or die!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Official Countdown
|Date: 23 Dec 96 10:03:16
EID:dd42 21975060
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be668b
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32b88230
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Chris Green <=-
Re: Millenium Terrorists
SA> Mm. My SO is loath to plan flying anywhere during that year, the
SA> year after, and possibly 2002. Why? Because of terrorist fundy
SA> nutballs who want to FORCE the end of the world and may do so by
SA> bombing, among other things, airliners.
There'll be a few, if I was the American Government I'd be keeping very
close watch on Sadam Hussein, he isn't a gentleman who forgets a slight;
and he certainly won't forget the Kuwait affair.
Others would be Hamas (sp?) ultra-fundy Islaamic; the Palestinians
(because of Israel); Kurdish Separatists (because the UN failed to
protect them).
The Russians are too busy with internal problems.
The Chinese, there may be another push for Democracy (taking the Western
Calendar - which pro-Democracy students did last time, as a
demonstration of breaking with the old ways).
There are plenty of other countries with some grievance or other.
SA> We wish to emigrate some time in the future, though we don't know
SA> where yet (I find the climate here beastly, at least in the winter -
SA> though we sure as hell aren't moving ANYWHERE within the US) ...
SA> it'll be damn certain we're not going to be doing our flying around
SA> that time, on any airline (and I refuse to fly American carriers as
SA> it is; they tend to have the worst safety track records, except for
SA> _perhaps_ Aeroflot, which may be debatable in Aeroflot's defence.)
Well if you are really rich, got the odd million pounds, and are in the
mega-earner bracket you could apply to migrate to the Channel Islands,
very low taxes, has a separate Parliament (not ruled from London).
Alternatively, there is the Isle of Man, again low taxes, and also has a
separate Parliament - you merely have to be rich to go there.
Anywhere else in the UK, I wouldn't touch with a sterilised bargepole,
basically because we have a Right Wing Christian Conservative
Government; and even if the Loyal Opposition get in, we will be Right
Wing Christian Labour Government. There's no difference between them.
The Government is going bankrupt, and have been propping up the Balance
of Payments with North Sea Oil for the last 20 years.
The population is living longer, and 61% of them are aged 50 plus.
It would not surprise me if they have to raise retirement age to 70 or
75, nor would it surprise me if they raised the age of majority from 18
back to 21 or even to 25.
The UK is in a paradox, on the one hand the National Health Service
manages to keep people alive longer at both ends of the age spectrum;
meanwhile the National Exchequer hasn't got enough money to support all
these extra people.
The birthrate, per 1000, was 13.9 in 1995 (World in Figures, published
by The Economist) and is a fairly stable figure fluctuating + or - .12
since 1965.
I suppose you could always go to New Zealand, or is that a bit too close
to the French nuclear tests?
Take care,
Chris
... Bashety-crash! 'Mind that mallet!' Supermice dismantle 'Better' trap.
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Sue".
|Date: 23 Dec 96 11:08:42
EID:634b 21975900
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32be668c
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32b809bd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to All <=-
SM> 2: Kindly please take said messages, in their entirety, with a
SM> VERY LARGE grain of salt (50 kilos or larger -- you'll need
SM> it!). I recommend the feed-store specials, which have the extra
SM> trace minerals in 'em. You know, the ones they sell for Mutant
SM> Cosmic Star Goats. :-)
SA> Ah, yes. "I was joking" - the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Is this to mean that you think he is actually serious?
SA> Sean has posted essentially the same tiresome line of BS over and over
SA> to this echo for at LEAST two years, without ever changing a note in
Oh dear, I did 12 years in an Irish Regiment - that's 700 x 12 years
worth of Sean.
Bad luck dearies, you've got two people with similar senses of humour
now.
SA> his Song of Whining. And now he attempts to cover his ass by
SA> claiming it's "a joke". Some joke, har de har de har. And next
SA> week, he'll be back to spewing the same toxic garbage he's spewn all
SA> the time - and the NEXT time someone calls him on it, it'll be,
SA> again, a "joke".
This is what baffles me on this echo, 'humour'. I find Sean's stuff
hilarious, it reminds me of Tom Sharpe's books, eg: 'Wilt' and Seamus
Heaney.
Despite being divided by 500 years of history, and several thousand
miles of water, I am closer to understanding Sean, than I am to
understanding anyone else in this echo.
Truly we are, as WS Churchill said to the American Congress, "We are two
Countries divided by a common language."
SA> wants.) He also seems jealous of the fact that he can't phony
SA> baloney his way onto disability and wants to take it away from those
SA> who are genuinely crippled from their disorders. I also suspect
So what level of disablement does Sean have?
Some people with disablement use humour as a way of staying sane, its a
way of coping with mundane reality.
Its also a satisfying method of 'slagging off' the able-bodied - I've
done it myself, on UK echoes where this form of humour is understood.
Disablement of any form, be it mental, or physical, or in my case both,
destroys your self-image.
If you want to work you have to be 200% better than someone from an
ethnic minority, you have to be so good, and superior, that you have to
BE superior, to get a job on an equal terms basis.
To get the grant for my first business (1983) I had to get 2 Institute
degrees in business management first - fortunately most civilians don't
understand that the Army trains you in management and accounts, etc, so
it only took 6 months. Sold that one at a profit (1984). 2nd business
broke even on (1984){don't do sub-contract work for Laing's - they hold
onto your money until you fold}. 3rd business again broke even (1985).
1986-92 in hospital.
In 1993 I started DIGIT, with no funding (we still have no funding), no
equipment, no staff.
We do research, anything to do with disablement from a disabled persons
viewpoint and specific research for organisations which provide us with
equipment, connections, etc.
"Time for bed," said Zebedee, as he landed on his spring, beside the
Magic Roundabout.
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Allele frequency.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:19:22
EID:3fea 21964a60
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b10
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8651269e
Laurie...
On 20 Dec 96 09:13:14, Laurie Appleton penned the following to John Musselwhite
re: Allele frequency.
JM> Basic matters like allele frequency,
LA> Ah yes indeed, John. Your current fixation eh? It is
LA> appallingly stupid of course.
LA> "An historic conference in Chicago challenges the
LA> four-decade long dominance of the Modern Synthesis"
More crap, Laurie? That conference took place ten years earlier
than the discovery of allele frequency's importance. Since it
was outdated, of what relevance is it? As usual with your posts
it means NOTHING to evolution, but it's a perfect illustration
of your intellectual bankruptcy.
LA> If you are unable to follow what these leading
LA> scientists(?) are saying then get back to me and I will try
LA> to help!
Sure you will, Laurie... you're great at attempting to baffle
people with bullshit because you can't dazzle them with the
intelligence you lack.
John
... 11th Rule of Creationism: Repeat falsified arguments at a later time.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Animals needed.
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:25:19
EID:e3e2 21964b20
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b11
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86512621
Hi Laurie...
On 20 Dec 96 09:12:16, Laurie Appleton penned the following to John Musselwhite
re: Animals needed.
LA> Perhaps you can tell me and others how large a Dinosaur
LA> baby is when it is first hatched from the egg? Then you
JM> Perhaps you can tell us which dinosaur? Or do you know any?
LA> Pick any one you like. After all paleontologists have
LA> found plenty of Dinosaur eggs haven't they?
Yes they have as a matter of fact. One of the largest dinosaur
nesting grounds in the world is a two hour drive from here.
Data and samples from these digs have been sent all over the
world and you can log-on to the internet any time you want and
read the current information.
That's just one "dig" though... out of many.
But of course, you don't understand the concept of the Great
Inland Sea or how it can be dated, and you don't understand
anything at all about paleontology except what you've been
spoon-fed by your masters so I never expected you to come up
with a rational answer to my question.
John
... 13th Rule of Creationism: Never honestly answer direct questions.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Catastrophism
|Date: 23 Dec 96 13:45:31
EID:5fd5 21976da0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b18
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86511c67
Hi Laurie...
On 20 Dec 96 08:56:50, Laurie Appleton penned the following to
John Musselwhitless
Getting frustrated are we? B-})
re: Catastrophism
JM> TLC did a whole evening on dinosaurs the other night and
JM> an hour of it was in Australia. Too bad you missed it as you
JM> might have learned something about the natural history of your
JM> own continent
LA> Then perhaps you could tell me something NEW that you
LA> learned? Was there really anything new to tell after all
Well Laurie, since I had seen every one of those shows before
and have actually been to some of the places they filmed as
well as done some research on much of it, I didn't really learn
anything new. On the other hand if you'd watched it you might
have something new to say instead of the tired old quotes you
keep regurgitating.
LA> these years, or are you like some religious types who never
LA> cease to get a "thrill" about hearing the "Old Old Story"
LA> all over again!
Ummmm... which "Old Old Story" would this be, Laurie? Noah?
Adam & Eve? Talking snakes or dead men walking?
LA> In other words the religious character of you "belief
LA> system" is dreadfully obvious!
My direct opposition to you and everything you stand for is
obvious, Laurie. I don't have to defend a single thing about
evolution because anyone with half a brain can walk into that
big building with all the books in it and read all about it.
I don't even worry much about you whining about "balanced
treatment", because even if your religious fundamentalist views
WERE to be taught in science classes it wouldn't change the
status of evolution one bit. Evolution would still be a fact
confirmed by multiple sciences. What it WOULD do is show any
thinking child exactly how poor creationism is at explaining
the natural world and quite possibly drive them away from it.
JM> Why not try Velikovsky again... He's always good for a
JM> laugh!
LA> Then you do yourself no credit (as usual) since the
LA> famous evolutionist, S.J. Gould has a very different opinion
LA> of Velikovsky. i.e.
LA> ". . . Velikovsky is neither crank nor charlatan -
LA> although to state my opinion and to quote one of my
LA> colleagues, he is at least gloriously wrong."
And by being "gloriously wrong" he is good for a laugh. Thanks for
allowing Stephen Jay to confirm my original statement.
LA> So much then for your silly views about Velikovsky.
Gould called him "gloriously wrong" which confirms my original
statement. So much then for your silly views about Velikovsky.
John
... 6th Rule of Creationism: If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Catastrophism (b)
|Date: 22 Dec 96 09:34:32
EID:a872 21964c40
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b12
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86511cd0
Hi Laurie...
Back for more, are you?
On 20 Dec 96 08:57:40, Laurie Appleton penned the following to John Musselwhite
re: Catastrophism (b)
JM> What Flood, Laurie? There is no evidence of your mythical
JM> flood anywhere.
LA> That is called, "not seeing the wood for the trees".
No, that's called looking at a problem logically and rationally
to see if there is a solution.
LA> Where do you think that places like the Grand Canyon came
LA> from? You don't honestly think that such a large series of
I've been to the Grand Canyon, Laurie... I've even taken a leak
off the edge and watched it fly a mile down. The USGS geologist
who caught me doing it was very helpful in explaining some of
the finer details of the formation of the canyon.
LA> "sedimentary" layers was laid down on a Sunday School
LA> picnic or during flooding due to an unusally wet
LA> summer do you?
LOL! You're a hoot, Laurie. Look it up in any encyclopedia and
tell me why their description is wrong.
LA> So how could all those Dinosaurs get trapped, buried and
LA> preserved in the uppermost strata in the Grand Canyon, let
Gee, Laurie... I don't know. There are no dinosaur fossils
above the K-T boundary and that isn't in the uppermost strata,
so any dinosaurs found there must be in your dreams, as usual.
LA> alone all the multiplied millions of other fossils in the
LA> other layers?
You said it, Laurie... Explain how the layers got there.
Explain the literally millions of layers found in some places.
JM> here IS a 12-foot thick layer of debris
JM> in Kuwait dating to just before Early Bronze I that may be
JM> the flood on which your myths are based.
LA> Debris? It this something quite different from the
LA> discoveries of Sir Leonard Wooley? All references that I
LA> have seen of Woolley's discoveries, hailed at the time, as
LA> the Genesis Flood, describe it as a "clean bank of clay"
LA> "containing NO relics whatsoever"? In other words just the
LA> OPPOSITE of "debris"!
Although Wooley never lived to see the results we have more
resources than he did. Using space radar photos the
land under the desert sands has been mapped so we know where
the rivers and lakes were. Core samples and extended digs have
given us extensive information about it now.
All the references you have read probably date from close to
Wooley's discovery. I'm talking about 1995 and what is
happening now.
JM> You still haven't come up with a rational response to
JM> allele frequency that was written after alleles were
JM> discovered.
LA> All you get from your "allele frequency" is Peppered moth
LA> sort of humbug and is deceptively called by evolutionists by
LA> the term MICROevolution, which anyone, who knows anything at
LA> all, knows does NOT accumulate to a point where it "explains"
LA> (alleged) macroevolution at all!
Too bad for you that allele frequency is what defines
evolution. At the molecular level there is no difference
between micro and macro evolution.
JM> You're a fornicating bible-sucking goofball, Appletoon! Get a
JM> fucking clue!
LA> Such words are the "hallmark" of a fool, a buffoon, an
LA> idiot, as well as an arrogant, intolerant bigot and
In ancient days the brilliant performers were known as "fools",
buffoonery can be a practiced art and I turned down Mensa so I
can't be too much of an idiot...
But I am an intolerant bigot when I approach people who should
know better but just argue because they like the way their words
appear on a computer screen. I become arrogant when reason
won't work with someone. You refuse to be reasonable.
LA> dogmatist. Honest scientific minds are altogether different.
LA> Anyone who fails to see that such talk underlines the mind
LA> of a crackpot, will never see anything.
I lost patience with you months ago, Laurie. You have a
tendency to ignore anything anyone says to you and refuse to
consider current DATA and prefer outdated opinion. We have all
tried being honest and rational with you and yet you come back
to us with dishonesty and irrationality. What more could you
expect?
John
... When subtlety fails us, we must resort to cream pies.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Changing time scales
|Date: 22 Dec 96 18:42:21
EID:dd8c 21969540
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b13
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32b3c4ea
Hi Rod...
On 15 Dec 96 17:29:14, Rod Swift penned the following to John Musselwhite
re: Changing time scales
JM> Yes, Doug. I live very close to one of the richest dinosaur fossil
JM> deposits on the planet. I'm also very close to the Burgess
...
RS> I can't remember what the name of the Museum in Alberta is, but I
RS> know that I sent my partner's folks to Calgary, where they had a
The Royal Tyrell Museum of Paleontology in Drumheller, Alberta.
It's probably one of the finest dinosaur museums and
laboratories on the planet.
RS> The museum was dedicated to dinosaur fossils. They *loooooved it*.
RS> Maybe we should sponsor some fundies to go visit.
I have a standard offer in to Appleton and Schwandt... I'll
even pay the admission fee! B-})
JM> That is YOUR interpretation of perhaps a small deposit. Come up
JM> to Canada if you want to see the "real thing".
RS> I agree! And a great holiday too!
Except this time of year when the temperature MIGHT get up to
-30 C during the day... B-})
John
... "The fossil record, when played backwards, proves evolution": F Rice
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Changing time scales
|Date: 23 Dec 96 15:53:35
EID:dd8c 21977ea0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b19
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32b6c418
Hi Rod...
On 18 Dec 96 00:02:32, Rod Swift penned the following to Dave Hamilton
re: Changing time scales
RS> What about the horrendous earthwide calamity of Jerry Lewis?
It's not "earthwide". In France they think he's the funniest
and most clever person on the planet.
Of course, this is also the country where gastropods are a
gastronomic delight and the lower extremities of certain
ranidae are considered to be something other than fodder for a
Monty Python sketch, so what more could you expect?
"Crunchy frog? Are they cooked? If they were cooked they
wouldn't be crunchy now, would they!"
John "I won't eat anything with a blood temperature lower than
mine" Musselwhite
... "Curse these French frog-eating prisons - much speedier than ours!"
NS
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 23 Dec 96 16:04:45
EID:9998 21978080
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b1a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bb69be
Hi Al...
On 20 Dec 96 16:49:33, Al Schroeder penned the following to Marty Leipzig
re: Christians v Guns
AS> Restrictions on handguns the same way we restrict submachine guns.
"Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns". While I'm not in
favour of firearms myself (we have very strict gun control laws
here in the frozen north), I recognize that all restrictions do
is drive it further underground.
AS> Marty, you rarely can do anything with a handgun save kill another
AS> human being.
That's not quite true... you can scare the shit out of them
with it too! B-})
AS> They are rarely helpful in hunting (please note the
Except for hunting humans...
AS> rarely) the way rifles are, and rifles can also be used to protect the
AS> home, and are MORE useful, not less, than handguns if a dictatorship
AS> arose and we needed to foment a rebellion.
You never know when you might need a well-regulated militia,
eh? B-})
AS> The handguns are too easily concealable.
I agree... make everyone wear them outside their coats, or just
assume everyone is armed.
AS> Last year, a kid in a wheelchair, on a dare, smuggled his mother's
These sorts of accidents are very sad. In Canada all firearms
are supposed to be kept in a gun-safe or other approved storage
cabinet. Accidents still happen, though.
AS> I could see specific licenses to carry handguns...for women in
In Canada you must have a valid FAC (Firearms Acquisition
Certificate) to own any firearm of any kind and each weapon
must be registered and licensed. If you are considered a good
risk and have passed the basic courses you may own an approved
handgun but it must be kept in a locked carrying case except
when in use, and a special permit must be acquired to transport
it from your home to the gun range and back home again
(directly with no stops). Private citizens are not allowed to
carry handguns on their person for any reason.
AS> high-risk professions, for bonded agents, etc. Or for people who
AS> travel the world in high-risk areas, like you, Marty.
The can have all the guns they want as long as their access to
bullets is curtailed...
AS> I don't like this conclusion. I love the Constitution and
AS> understood exactly why the right to bear arms is in there. But we are
Then apply the amendment to the letter. In Switzerland for
example, everyone has guns (or at least every male) because
every one does his turn in the Swiss Army and can be called up
at any time as a highly trained and regulated militia. Make it
a requirement that if you want to own a gun that you do your
time in the service and stand ready to be called up as called
for in the amendment.
AS> killing our kids by the hundreds to guarentee our ability to fight a
AS> dictatorship which may never come. I see the murder by violence rates
AS> of European countries, and wonder if it's worth the cost.
No, it's not worth the cost. Guns are required to maintain a
well-regulated militia not just for the hell of it.
AS> Mistakes will always happen with weapons. Children will always
AS> accidentally be killed by them. But we can lower the odds, by making
AS> the weapons stand out, and not so easily concealable.
One way to do help is to make sure that guns and ammunition
are kept in a locked gun safe bolted to the floor when they
aren't being used. It's people leaving their handguns in
night stands and desks that cause most of the accidents with
children.
John
... "Don't you hate it when your boogers freeze?" -- Calvin
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Creationists on Trial.
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:45:10
EID:1809 21979da0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b1b
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86511c03
Hi Laurie...
On 20 Dec 96 08:56:00, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Doug Lee
re: Creationists on Trial.
LA> 'Niles Eldredge, the Curator of the American Museum of
LA> natural History states that;
LA> "Creationists today - at least the majority of their
...
LA> (The Monkey Business, Niles Eldredge, A Scientist Looks
LA> at Creationism, 1982, p. 17. - ref. Creation Scientists
LA> ANSWER their Critics, p. 230)
So... at last it comes out. Idiot-boy Appleliar never DID read
Eldredge but got the quote second-hand out of some religious
tract written by wacko fruitcakes who can't get a real job.
You lied when you said you'd read TMB... thanks for clearing
that up.
We had you pegged all along, fool.
... musselj@cadvision.com
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Give up Now.
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:51:54
EID:022d 21979e60
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b1c
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86512276
Hello dishonest piece of trash.
On 20 Dec 96 09:04:58, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Dan Ceppa
re: Give up Now.
KS> Somewhat. It is even better 'insurance' for *you*, as
KS> it permits you the freedom to spout any kind of lies and
KS> bullshit you want.
LA> Are you claiming that the ACLU is the Government of the
LA> United States then?
DC> You are an idiot.
LA> How would a person who claims to have only reworked
You are an idiot, Appleton. You lied when you said the Act 590
trial was brought on by the ACLU and then tried to steer the
conversation away from your exposed lie.
Get a life...
... Creationist, 'eh? Now we've got to find someone fluent in stupid.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:54:51
EID:6e8b 21979ec0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32bf8b1d
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2b973e31
Hi Rick...
On Thu 19 Dec 96 12:00, Rick Mcfarlane penned the following to Andrew Masten
re: Heat
RM> OTOH, I can certainly understand John's frustration. I've only been
RM> talking to Laurie for 6 months or so, and there have been many
RM> occasions when I had to edit a note several times to get control of
my
RM> own frustrations. And sometimes some of those frustrations may still
Several times? Last week I deleted two pages of choice
muleskinning aimed in his direction. What you read of mine to
him IS after I've controlled my frustrations with him! B-})
John
... I'm a lot like evolution. I don't tolerate genetic fuckups either.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 25 Dec 96 10:32:07
EID:3603 21995400
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72a83f55
REPLY: 1:261/1137 981288fd
On Dec 24 17:58 96, Curtis Johnson of 1:261/1137 wrote:
JH>> 14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
CJ> Your text seems to be the more modest variation.
CJ> The more full-blooded texts have Salome getting her arm
CJ> "withered" when puts the finger in.
That's later in the text.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 25 Dec 96 10:34:16
EID:c30e 21995440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72a85327
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 6c798de7
On Dec 23 19:19 96, Dan Ceppa of 1:123/67.5 wrote:
JH>> The following is from the Protevangelion of James, an
JH>> apocryphal gospel which was quoted as authoratative by a
JH>> number of the early Church Fathers.
DC> Good stuff. Do you happen to have any dates for that
DC> and/or the groups that used that as their ever-changing
DC> bible?
I've been meaning to look it up, myself. The notes in The Lost Books
of the Bible were writen by the 18th century compiler and are less
than desirable. The compiler "believes" the Protevangelon may be
thought cannonical by the Eastern Church, but doesn't sound very
convincing. However it seems to have been in common use in both
the Greek and Latin Church until the Nicean Council when it got
the axe.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 25 Dec 96 09:54:04
EID:db8c 21994ec0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c1426a1
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org b3108eed
Hello Sean!
Sean McCullough wrote in a message to Dave Hamilton:
> Canada is not the only country in the world where the citizens have
> attempted to remain unarmed. Switzerland has managed to do so through
> several violent times.
SM> I'll have to investigate this further. My understanding was
SM> that Switzerland was a COMPULSORILY armed society, where
SM> male citizens are also militiamen their whole lives, and
SM> their home weapons ARE their service weapons, and they leave
SM> them behind, of course, when they leave their home Canton.
SM> But, as I just said, more research here may prove to be in
SM> order.
I am under the same impression as you - told by a Swiss
national I used to work with in Canada, while comparing
notes with my Israeli husband. Both countries have longterm
compulsory army reserve service for males (to age 55 in Israel),
and the Swiss keep their weapons at home, but the Israelis
do not.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:36:28
EID:6d7b 21994480
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c12e2a0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9900885a
};> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Steve Hayes <:(
CJ> On 22 Dec 96 10:09am, STEVE HAYES wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
JB> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
SH> Answer the question, fascist.
JB> 1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh
JB> well, I must be doing something right. There's another
JB> one here who calls me a LIBERAL.
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
CJ> So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
The only animal stupid enough to have sex with Steve . . . ?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:38:37
EID:7574 219944c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c12e2a1
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32be3670
};> Lynda Bustilloz wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
LB> Lynda and Richard were killing time yakking about
LB> ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW:
as> Depends on whether you have an Infinite mind thinking up diversions
as> for one, and has omnipotence to make it, doesn't it?
RH> And your scriptural basis for that is?
RH> I thought not.
RH> Debunked!
LB> Who cares...it's bizarre all it's own. An Infinite mind
LB> thinking up diversions for one? God as Cosmic Cruise
LB> Director? And if he's thinking up all my diversions....isn't
LB> that going to play hell with the pesky free-will again?
RS> Jesus, is there nothing that will not play hell with that
RS> pesky free-will?
LB> hehe...
LB> It does seem strange though....if I follow Al's argument
LB> (and that is difficult, as he keeps morphing it off into
LB> some other argument everytime any part of it is questioned),
LB> we go through what we do here - sans help - to teach us to
LB> stand on our own (and yet Christian theology says to trust
LB> in GOD...hard to square, isn't it?), but he makes it plain
LB> that the goal is an eternity of turning ourselves over to
LB> God completely, right down to HIM picking our recreational
LB> diversions.
Gak. You know how much fun THAT'LL supposedly be. I can see
the PA system in Heaven now:
"Attention Heaven Residents! At 23:00 hours there will be
more Hosannahs in the Rec Room, Team Shuffleboard in the
forward lounge, and Cyclic Prayer around the Throne. Be
sure to get there early for a good seat. Pity the poor
souls in Hell, for they only have a cash bar, video games,
and topless dancers . . . "
LB> Now, I can live with God not being around for the tough
LB> times here...all it takes to get comfortable with that is to
LB> realize he didn't notice. But if I can get through the hard
LB> times without help, then I sure don't want him to suddenly
LB> play Sugar Daddy and choose my GOOD times for me. My
LB> imagination is pretty good...I think I would rather think up
LB> my OWN diversions. ;)
One would think, right?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:34:01
EID:acf4 21986440
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32c109b4
Richard Smith said "COWARD!" to Chris Green, adding:
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to Martin Goldberg <:(
RS> who is). I've fudge the breakup a bit, but by definition an
RS> Atheist is one without beliefs in a Deity. Check Websters.
On his side, that'll be some form of Oxford English, I suspect.
Webster's is pretty much American only.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:01:26
EID:d64d 21979020
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Chris Green <=-
CG> Who rocked your cradle Leipzig,
No one, as I dispensed with that many, many years ago. You,
however, seem to have yours listing like a rowboat in a
Nor'Easter.
CG> Yes, we must take responsibility for the fragile Earth and its
CG> Resources.
ML> Awww...horseshit. The earth has been around for 4.6+ BY before
ML> a biped ape showed up. It'll be around for just as long even if
ML> a certain species of primates screws itself into oblivion.
ML>
CG> My personal feeling, is that the Human Species is rather similar to
a
CG> particularly nasty bacteria, currently, if we are not careful, we are
CG> not going to have anything left for the future.
ML> "We are not careful...we are not..." How nicely
ML> anthropomorphic. Humans have such an inflated and temporal
ML> view of themselves. They live but a hundred years, and like a
ML> butterfly flitting on a summer afternoon; think it's all of
ML> time.
ML> Luckily, science and technology arm us with the tools to
ML> survive, indeed; even undo the thousands of years damage
ML> wrought by that brand of inculcated ignorance called "religion".
CG> You wouldn't be the oposite side of the fence to Appleton would you?
In every conceivable manner.
CG> You have failed to make any sense, have managed to contradict
CG> yourself, and have totally ignored the meaning or context of the text
CG> which you have quoted.
That you do not possess the intellectual horsepower to
comprehend the written word; that is not a negative mark upon
my writing abilities. Set thine own house in order, Chris.
Looks like you've had a bit of storm damage.
CG> Go and play with Appleton; you suit each other!
Appleton, like you, is merely a verbal speed bag. Now, go back
to playing with yourself, boy.
... Can't say you have nothing...you have rampant inferiority.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:07:16
EID:33d2 219790e0
Jim Staal, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JS> On (15 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Jim Staal...
ML> Quite a bit more than when he arrived; the 50% tip saw to that.
JS> Thankyou. I'm glad that the truth is coming out.
ML> It was always there, you just missed it in you furry-palm
ML> rubbing glee.
JS> No, merely the first time you mentioned it.
Nope, just the first time YOU noticed.
JS> How much reality in
JS> the evidence of the extra-terrestrial?
ML> A planet-full; as the evidence now indicates.
JS> A couple of cells of frozen plant material is not what I would call
a
JS> 'planet-full'
ML> The evidence suggests otherwise.
JS> The scientific community can't seem to agree on that.
Give us time. You've been around for over 40 years and science
still hasn't figured you out.
ML> do in your failed attempts to fleece fellow Americans through
ML> the vendage of your laughingly referred to "craft".
JS> See comments by Sue Armstrong in regards to your attempted slur of
JS> artists.
ML> The difference is, Jimbo, she understands them.
JS> I agree, she understands them. The rest of your attempted slur of my
JS> intellect is just that.
Bang on as usual.
... A belief-filled mind is a waste of perfectly good carbon.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:09:20
EID:26b1 21979120
Jim Staal, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JS> On (15 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Jim Staal...
ML> Jim Staal, bereft (missing the plane out of Japan), said to Marty
ML> Leipzig,
JS> On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Ha! I laugh you to scorn!
ML> Ha! We laugh at your idiocy.
JS> A bit of an MPD problem, Herr Doktor?
ML> Yes, it appears that yours is in full bloom; along with your
ML> quote editing.
JS> i did not alter your statement in any way.
Selective quoting by any other name is just as guileful.
... Christian: A thoroughly unhappy man who finds evil in everything.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:10:02
EID:26b1 21979140
Jim Staal, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JS> On (15 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> JS>> I know how the rich work: just exactly in that manner.
MG> JS>> Using poor people to advance their own fat wallets.
MG> Yawn...you are pulling my leg about this, aren't you?
JS> No. I have experienced this in life. 28 years worth.
ML> "Poor, poor, pitiful me."
JS> Just facts, sir.
You know no more what constitutes "fact" than a whore does
chastity.
JS> More like ten million. He is one of the original cats to make the
JS> desert bloom.
ML> Reaping a blighted harvest of topsoil denudation, pesticide
ML> runoff and soil depletion.
ML> No wonder you admire him so.
JS> I have no admiration for the rich. No respect either.
And we return the favor tenfold.
... I'll bet your URL reads dubya dubya dubya dawt fundymoron dawt com.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:12:58
EID:26b1 21979180
Jim Staal, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JS> On (15 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Richard Smith...
RS> Pathetic. Sloppiest Fundy Shuffle I've seen all year . . .
ML> It goes well with his singing inabilities.
JS> Hmmm...and when did you actually hear Jim Staal sing?
I downloaded off the Internet while Dr. Glodbreg was here.
We both had, and continue to have, a hearty laugh at your attempts to
carry a tune.
JS> Merely send $1.50 plus $2500.00 for S&H (no personal checks, please)
JS> for my 1996 complimentary demo tape to:
JS> Jim Staal Ministries
JS> P.O. Box 171
JS> Grandville, MI 49468-0171
JS> (please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery)
Don't hold your breath, Jimbo. Blue ain't your color.
... "I, Jim Staal, am not as fucking stupid as I appear to be."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Marty has his head up his ass again!!!
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:13:02
EID:051f 219861a0
Bill Wolff, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
BW> On (10 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> I THINK CARL SAGAN IS A CREATIONISTS?
ML> You sure do, Billyboy. If you don't, then why were you so
ML> fucking stupid to claim so right here in this very echo?
BW> I claimed that Carl Sagan is a creationist? Why do you continue to
BW> lie Marty? I have asked you morons a zillion times where is this
BW> rumored quote! Yet you never come up with one. Why do you continue
BW> to lie for? Are you a moron? Yet years later you continue to see
BW> shit that ain't there. Surely you are a total moron!
Fucking A, Billyboy, but you certainly are a one-note wonder.
Six messages of your incredulity, idiocy and ignorance. The
damn quote of yours has had more second comings here than a
hooker at a Baptist convention. It must be that you're either
terminally stupid or profoundly mentally inept. So, which is
it, Billyboy?
In case you haven't sufficient neurons to gather, that was a
rhetorical question. You're far too much a waste of carbon to
even merit a further response.
FOAD, Dimwit.
... "How talk you, yes. That, do we. Idiot, fucking, you are.": Yoda
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:18:30
EID:6652 21986240
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Chris Green <=-
CG> And, unlike you, Mr Goldberg, I come within the top 1% of the human
CG> race.
ML> Based upon what benchmarks?
CG> MENSA.
So, how much did you pay them to be tested?
... "What Jesus fails to appreciate is it's the meek who are the problem!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:20:04
EID:5e1e 21986280
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
ML> ... In memorium. Dr. Carl Sagan, 1934-1996. "He touched
MG> But he didn't touch Billy Wolff.
He's already "touched".
In the head.
... A clear cut case of the pot blacking the kettle-call.-MRL
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: equal rights
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:20:35
EID:1d07 21986280
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Not necessairly. A local watering hole "Muldoon's" caters to
ML> those with good taste in both fine cigars and libations. A
ML> sign there reads: "If you don't like cigar smoke, go breathe
ML> somewhere else."
ML> His business flourishes.
MG> I bet he lets them smoke mexican cigars there.
Of course, of course. But, to his detriment, he also holds
bimonthly "scotch tastings".
It takes a quartet of fortnights to shovel out the smell after
them.
... He was so crooked you could use him to pull corks with.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:23:25
EID:3f51 219862e0
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
BJ>> Well, I'm Roman Catholic Hmmm...Terribly sorry about that. Hope you get better.
MG> Where's John Prewett when you need him?
Frozen in time.
... Beware of true believers you may be duped by a false god.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:23:55
EID:b4b9 219862e0
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DW> On , you wrote me:
ML>> In Jimbo's defense, is there really much of a market
ML>> for a trashed doublewide and a yard-full of
ML>> non-working appliances?
DW>> I see you've never visited Mississippi, Arkansas, or
DW>> West Virginia. :)
ML> Yeah, but squirrel pelts and loads of empty beer cans are
ML> not considered legal tender.
DW> They are if you're a resident of the abovementioned states.
Damn, by that standard, Staal's a fucking tycoon.
... Evolution: "Extinction is tough on the genetically inferior."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:24:28
EID:ae9e 21986300
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DW> On , you wrote me:
DW>> He probably has to wear diapers by this point.
ML> Depends.
DW> How did I know one of you would say that?
You know us well, Grasshopper...
... "As your doctor, I advise you to start drinking heavily." - Bluto
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Lying Jones Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:25:05
EID:07d4 21986320
Richard Smith, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
};> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Fredric Rice <:(
ML> Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo),
ML> said to David Worrell
FR> Jones looks at his own dick and sees "demonic pacts."
ML> But he has to squint *really* hard.
RS> Neither you nor Fredric mentioned the magnifying glass . . .
A scanning electron magnifying glass is a given.
... Department of Redundancy Department. Knock, enter and come in.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:25:53
EID:b256 21986320
Andrew Masten, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> Wishful thinking Bill. I'm not aware of any of my response's being
AM> accusatory. I think a confirmed atheist wouldn't waste thier time
AM> in here.
ML> And therein lies the crux of the biscuit.
ML> Just where *does* an atheist go nowadays to get confirmed?
AM> What confirmation are you seeking?
ML> None, actually. I was parodying you.
AM> Reassurance that there truly is
AM> no God?
ML> I receive that on a daily basis.
ML> (Just a sidebar, Andy. I'm as atheist as one could possibly be
ML> and yet I find that all the good fun, freely exchanged
ML> information and the open opportunities to bash both fundies and
ML> scotch drinkers is far from a waste of time. Although that same
ML> cannot be said on behalf of some of the echo's denizens.)
AM> Even if I wanted to bag the whole thing, I could never deny that
AM> God exists.
ML> Why not? A lack of vertebrae or mental horsepower?
AM> Its not a matter if I believe or think there is a God,
AM> I know there is.
ML> You believe there is; which is a damn sight different than
ML> knowing.
AM> No, I know there is. You believe there isn't. Thats the difference.
Wrong yet again, Andrew. I know that there is ZERO evidence for
said God. You still believe that there is a God, evidence
notwithstanding.
I do not "not believe", I think the fact that there is no
evidence is more Ockhamically logical than to ignore that fact
and believe not withstanding.
... Everything's going to hell. Entropy wins again.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJ
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:28:24
EID:cdd0 21986380
Andrew Masten, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Brett Johnson <=-
BJ> Come on Rod, you seem (from your posts at least) a little more
BJ> intelligent than this. You know what they're talking about; the soul,
BJ> who we fundamentally are as human beings.
ML> I trust you have evidence for this "soul" thing which you grant
ML> all these wonderful attributes?
AM>
AM> There is a great deal of evidence for the soul.
Any extra-Biblically?
AM> According to
AM> biblical doctrine
Didn't think so. Andrew, according to the Bible, bats are
birds. It's not the most error-free nor conclusive reference,
you know.
AM> humans are a tri-part being. Spirit, soul and
AM> body. The soul is our mind and emotions.
Humans are but a sentient animal; of which the cognitive
portion of the brain gives rise to the mind and emotions.
AM> The terms soul and heart
AM> are interchangable in the bible.
Odd, I've never heard of anyone checking into the ER for a
"soul attack" or of anyone needing a "soul transplant".
AM> Its the spirit that you are
AM> probably inquiring about.
And denying exists.
BJ> We die in our baptism to natural life, and are called to a newness of
BJ> life. Our walk as Christians is to conform, by God's grace and mercy,
BJ> to this calling.
ML> "Called to conform"? Well, so much for that "free will" thing.
ML> Sorry, I cannot fathom the religionists fascination and
ML> determination to be subjugated to an unevidenced supernatural
ML> entity and so willingly become automata.
ML> Fascinating.
AM>
AM> This should not be surprising since there is little of
AM> Christianity you fathom.
I fathom more than you could ever comprehend. In fact, I scored
straight 4.0's in Abnormal Psychology.
AM> Willfully conforming yourself to the image of God, is not losing
AM> your free will.
If done only to garner cosmic brownie points and supplicate
before your deity, it sure SOUNDS like an abrogation of free
will.
AM> What you fail to recognize is everyone is
AM> conforming to some image.
Everyone? Mighty broad brush there, Andy. I do so hope you have
evidence to back up this ludicrous claim.
AM> Whatever type of diet you nourish your
AM> brain on is the image you are inexorably being conformed into.
Low fat, high fiber is simply a diet; not an image I conform to.
BJ> Though I'm not always successful, I'd have to say I'm very different
BJ> from the non-Christian.
ML> Yes, indeed. You leave WOA's great openings with your straight
ML> lines.
RS> Christianity is the brainwashing of the feeble into something to
RS> place hope in when all hope is gone.
AM>
AM> You have just fallen for a silly stereo type.
A Hitachi 8-track?
AM> How many wealthy and
AM> sucessful football, basketball and baseball players have you seen
AM> that are devout christians?
At least a few. How many of the US's prison populace are
Christians?
AM> Do you think Reggie White is feeble and
AM> brainwashed?
Quite probably; but I reserve comment until he himself makes
his own proclamations.
AM> Or how about Evander Holyfield? Care to step in the
AM> ring since he's so feeble?
Not particularly. I never liked boxing, I prefer wrestling and Judo.
Still, it is amazing that you feel that it's such a gift from God
to be able to make a living pummeling others.
BJ> This is of course merely your opinion, as a hostile outsider. :) It's
BJ> meaningless for you to try to tell me personally "why" I'm a
BJ> Christian, or why anyone is for that matter.
ML> I've never died; so by your curious brand of "logic", death must
ML> be meaningless and I can't study it's effects.
ML> We know full well what causes religiousity, and we do have the
ML> antidote; although the afflicted so oftimes refuse the cure.
AM>
AM> I'd like your version of what causes 'religiousity' Marty.
Unquestioned belief, Orwellian "doublethink", deliberate
ignorance and fear. In any combination.
AM> P.S. Welcome to Holysmoke Brett. Let me introduce you to Marty
AM> Liepzig, one of many self proclaimed intellectuals of this echo.
First off, Andy, it's Marty LEIpzig (I would never typo-ize your
good name, Dany); and my success in my chosen profession, the
accolades of my peers and my satisfaction in increased
erudition on a daily basis do all my proclaiming for me.
... Are you really THAT stupid, or do you have to work at it?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:42:21
EID:f308 21986540
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SQ> Salue, Marty!
SQ> Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad All:
ML> Food for thought department.
SQ> Aha...a Dahmer reference!
Ed Gein, actually.
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications after a
ML> two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
SQ> Just more proof that Satan is Lord of this world (A -great- Black
SQ> Sabbath song) and that the end times are a' comin'!
The rabble run amuck.
... Commit the oldest sins in the newest kind of ways.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:42:58
EID:795d 21986540
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SQ> Salue, Marty!
SQ> Saturni dies December 21 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad John Jeanneault:
JJ>> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>> by no longer posting here.
SQ> I'm wondering if we should have a betting pool on how long it will be
SQ> before he posts in here again.
I'll wager less than a fortnight; even less if he thinks we're
talking about him.
... Dogmatism: Puppyism come to its full growth.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:05:12
EID:0399 219868a0
John Musselwhite, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to
Marty Leipzig
JM> Hi Marty...
JM>
JM> On 15 Dec 96 12:15:24, Marty Leipzig penned the following to Al
JM> Schroeder re: Christians v Guns
CG> Is it every Christian American's inalienable Right to carry arms, and
CG> shoot his neighbour?
JM>
JM> Well, they do say a man with a gun isn't nearly as dangerous as
JM> a man with a Bible and a gun...
How about a man with a Bible, a gun and a feeling of
persecution?
Shudder.
AS> It is every AMERICAN's right to bear arms, Christian or not. I
JM>
JM> Do you see every American as good potential for a
JM> well-regulated militia? Doesn't the Bill of Rights mention
JM> something about that?
Yep, sure does. I have guns because that's one way I invest and
I enjoy shooting them.
AS> personally would prefer more gun control, to keep it out of the hands
AS> of known offenders and the mentally unbalanced.
JM>
JM> They are trying that here, but it still won't work. Last year
JM> before the new gun laws came into effect here they showed
JM> pictures of the weapons people had turned it. While I didn't
JM> feel bad about Sat. night specials being destroyed, it was
JM> heartbreaking to see some of the antiques and presentation
JM> pistols that were going to be melted down.
That's not only idiotic, but totally ridiculous. How many
people are nuked with a Dan Wesson Model 14? Or a Thompson
Contender?
ML> Al, there currently are over 25,000 gun laws on the books now.
ML> You can see how well they're working.
JM>
JM> Part of the problem here is that firearms violations are among
JM> the first to be plea-bargained away in criminal cases where
JM> they appear. At worst case if there's time to be served for it
JM> then it's served concurrently and who the hell cares.
Dare say I that education just might be a tad more effective?
ML> What do you suggest?
JM>
JM> How about an automatic death penalty for anyone caught
JM> red-handed using a gun in the commission of a crime? No trial
JM> and no appeal, just stick them up against the wall like the
JM> looters after the bombing of Dresden.
That's a start. A Vonneguttian "hook law" might be a some
utility as well.
JM>
JM> In some ways I'd like to see a return of the old days when
JM> everyone over the age of 16 carried a gun and knew how to use
JM> it. Not only would it weed the country of low-life who have no
JM> respect for others, but it would make for a very polite
JM> society.
Works in Switzerland. And since the pejoratively named "John Wayne
Law" (concealed weapon permit for citizens) has been in force
in Texas, violent crime has decreased markedly.
Surprise, surprise.
... A kind word and gun gets you more than a kind word alone.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:12:32
EID:335c 21986980
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Gwenny
the Pooh
MG>> When did you ever bash a scotch drinker?
GtP> Jealousy.
MG> Not at all. Marty continues to make this up believing that he has
MG> made a dent in good taste. I'm just reminding him that this isn't so.
MG> He also knows whioch geologist has a bottle of scotch in his home and
MG> which immunologist ahs no bourbon.
I also know, unlike certain immunology types, what it means to
be a good host.
... And now, fresh from the sack of Europe, Ghengis Khan & the Hordelets
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:17:04
EID:8191 21986a20
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Brett:
BJ>> You know this to be a fact, I'm guessing?
ML> Yep. Sure do.
BJ>> Do you know anything about Lourdes, France?
ML> Yep. Sure do. It's a place where miracles are supposed to
ML> happen with ridiculous regularity. Odd that not a single
ML> "miracle" stood up to scientific/medical scrutiny.
GtP> Hell, most of it won't hold up to non-scientific scrutiny.
It doesn't even stand up to a bit of healthy skepticism.
GtP> A number of years ago, when I was still in the throes of Moronism,
I
GtP> met some pentecostals at a neighbor's house. When they found out I
GtP> was Moron they started bragging about how they had gotten into the
GtP> local bishop house under the guise of political canvassing and had
GtP> "healed" his mother--a non-member--of chronic back pain.
By shooting her in the foot?
BLAM! "There, now I'll bet your back doesn't hurt nearly as
much!"
GtP> They were
GtP> very convincing, so I called Sister Graham (bishop's wife) and asked
GtP> her. Yes, they had gotten in but no her mother-in-law was not healed.
She wasn't? I am so shocked.
GtP> I wonder how many folks believed their lies?
Far too many.
... About as clever as a fish in a blizzard.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:19:05
EID:0503 21986a60
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Gwenny:
ML>>> ... "Oh, fuck!", yelled Pooh, as he found his bourbon had turned
ML>>> to scotch -!- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
MG>> KNown in better parts ofthe world as the Midas Touch.
GtP>> Say BLESSED BE to that, brother Goldberg.
ML> "Midas" as in "muffler"; although it sometimes has the reverse
ML> effect.
GtP> Ahhh, to muffle the sighs of pleasures when people drink it?
No. The more they have, the louder they get.
GtP>> And speaking of fine
GtP>> comestibles,
ML> Comestibles are solids. Your coffee must give my "Coonass Cajun
ML> Voodoo Blackened Blowout Rig Java" a run for the rubles.
GtP> Sorry. I must have posted that late. I remember thinking that that
GtP> wasn't the word I was looking for, but solstice is always a busy time,
GtP> so I must have sent it off without digging out the dictionary.
No sweat, it was obvious from context (of course, that never
stopped me...)
GtP>> I think it's time to go give my new coffee pot it's first
GtP>> run. . good coffee laced liberally with Bailey's.
ML> Sheesh...do you drink that or trowel it directly into your
ML> aorta?
GtP>
Want another piece of coffee?
... Creationists fear evolution. By design.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Welcome to the state of TAXES.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:20:50
EID:4da5 21986a80
Doug Lee, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Michael
Hardy
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Marty Leipzig <=-
DL>
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper. He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
DL>
DL>
DL> Is that so MIke? You're now in the "agnostic camp" as Al puts it?
DL> That would be quite a departure from the Mike Hardy I knew from a
DL> year ago.
DL> If it is true, why the change??
"By the twitching of my thumb, something trollish this way
comes."
... Gods would resemble the bodies each species possesses. - Xenophanes
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:22:28
EID:b5f5 21986ac0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Al Schroeder <=-
>AS> It is every AMERICAN's right to bear arms, Christian
>AS> or not. I personally would prefer more gun control,
>AS> to keep it out of the hands of known offenders and
>AS> the mentally unbalanced.
DR> The USA already has those laws. Gee, don't seem tah be
DR> workin' any....
The only one with any evidenced efficacy is the Concealed
Handgun law here in Texas and a few other places.
ML> Al, there currently are over 25,000 gun laws on the
ML> books now. You can see how well they're working.
ML> What do you suggest?
DR> Shoot all of the members of the legislature.
That might be a *tad* extreme.
DR> Any law that cannot be enforced is a bad law.
And excessively useless.
DR> ... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! YOU'RE DELUSIONAL!" -
ML
Well, it was true.
... "Oh, look honey, Torgo has a little altar to Ba'al!"- Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Job/Problem with pain
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:09:46
EID:8c0a 21987120
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to All <=-
> Chris Green, bereft (missing the plane out of Japan),
> said to DAVID RICE,
>CG> I am at a crossroads in my studies, since I am
>CG> currently learning hebrew (canaanite) and aramaic;
>CG> so it will be a while before I can continue.
DR> Why would someone learn "Cannanite" and Aramaic unless
DR> one was going there to live or work?
To effect a snobbish front. (Unfortunately here, it, like a busted
Maytag, doesn't wash.)
ML> Looks like a Wiens-wannabe in training.
DR> I wish Whiner Wiens would come back. He claimed again
DR> and again that no one has explained to him what natural
DR> selection is, and yet I posted a message to him TWICE
DR> quoting eight or nine messages addressed to him that
DR> did exactly that. Maybe the humiliation was too great
DR> for him to endure, so he ran away wailing "Is NOT!"
Wolff is headed that same direction, rapidly.
... 41st Rule of Creationism: Misquote...misinterpret...yank from context.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:34:56
EID:b520 21986c40
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to MARTY
LEIPZIG
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jesse Jones <=-
>JJ> C'mon, Stevie, admit it -- you're an open book. Anyone
>JJ> with eyes to see can see right through you.
DR> Jesse's gods are transparent (it's almost as if they didn't
DR> exist at all!), so therefore Steve is, too. That's logical.
At least for Jesse it is.
ML> Odd. My vision's 20/20 and Steve is as opaque as any;
ML> although his reasoning is clear.
DR> Unlike Jesse's, which seems to suffer the same lack of
DR> clarity one might experience after being swallowed by a whale
DR> that is suspended in crude oil in a tank on a supertanker,
DR> with the hatches shut, the lights turned off, a blindfold
DR> on both the whale and himself, with the whale's mouth and
DR> blowhole taped shut and its anus plugged, on a moonless
DR> night, with dark rain clouds obscuring the stars, 2000
DR> miles from the nearest land, in the dead of winter.
And sucked into a black smoker on the Mid Atlantic Ridge.
>JJ> And it is obvious to any objective observer that
>JJ> the denizens of this hell hole
DR> That cracks me up!
I get all snickeriferous when I think how Jesse unwittingly
describes himself.
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
DR> Not long enough.
Or far too long, by some accounts.
>JJ> are not in any way typical of that small portion
>JJ> of atheists in this country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping
ML> generalizations? Is this _just_ your opinion or do
ML> you have some evidence with which to back it?
DR> Of course he does.
DR> And the sky is falling....
Upside the head with another acorn.
>JJ> The writer's point is well taken: those participating
>JJ> here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
DR> Wow. Gee, Marty, I dunno---- I'm insecure in my lack of
DR> belief in Santa Claus. Can yah help me in my time of
DR> anti-non-contra-belief-doubt testing? And my lack of
DR> belief in Tooth Fairy is also slipping....
Sorry, I'm in my 20'th year of therapy to help me deal with my
insecurity about the existence of the Easter Lagomorph.
ML> Since you seem to agree with this uninformed viewpoint,
ML> please elucidate. Specifically, just how am I (a wicked
ML> old atheist of the highest degree) insecure about "my
ML> atheism?"
DR> I'm still waiting for any evidence, or even REASON, for
DR> his assertion that for the most part atheists do no good
DR> things---- dispite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
He'll come back with some semantic chicanery; all glower, no
substance.
ML> Enlightenment awaits!
DR> But not for Jesse. He is content in his darkness.
He appears to revel in it.
... Due to inflation, all clouds will now be lined with zinc.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: ALL
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:39:47
EID:9ce3 21986ce0
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan Ceppa
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Chris Green <=-
CG> Hello Dan,
DC> You are nasty, very nasty. If it keeps the likes of Martinez off
DC> of the streets, you are elligible for saint hood.
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
CG> I run a charity as well,
And I'll wager next that he's 1.95 m tall, a black belt in
karate and will soon be impressing us all with his abnormal IQ.
... Don't leave in a huff. Let me call you a garbage truck.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:41:27
EID:d64d 21986d20
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Chris Green <=-
CG> Hello Marty,
CG> What has religion got to do with wasting the earth's resources?
ML> One word: overpopulation. And ignorance, two words.
CG> Right, Agreement.
CG> Darn. :-)
Even a sightless suide finds an truffle now and again.
... Chuckle(v).The least violent way of responding to religious propaganda
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:43:10
EID:0689 21986d60
Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Judith
Bandsma
CG> I didn't know that South Carolina was in 'Hurricane Alley'?
Ken the name "Hugo"?
CG> Though thinking about it, anything missing the Missippi Delta would
CG> tend to follow the coastal plain.
That's "Mississippi", Herr Mensa.
And anything missing the Mississippi Delta (i.e., New Orleans)
would follow the Gulf Coastal Plain; which is a damn sight far
removed from the Atlantic Coastal Plain; except for this wee
bit around Sloppy Joe's in Key West.
... Basically, I believe in peace and bashing two bricks together.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Cartoon
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:50:23
EID:b66f 21986e40
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Chris
Green
CG>> Just finished doing this cartoon; there's a big sign next to
CG>> a phonebox which says, "Dial G.O.D. for God!"
MG>> I don't get it.
CG> That's OK. You don't have to.
MG> I am beginning to think you a bigger moron than I thought at first.
Is that possible?
... Errata: "In the beginning" should read "Catch this shit..."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:50:58
EID:48f8 21986e40
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>> Hung...hung...he said "hung"..huh..huh..huh..he.he.he.
ML> You *really* need to get out more...
MG> Tomorrow...I'm going out to steal some pizzas.
Not with that scruff of a canine you aren't.
ML>> ... "Oh, fuck!", yelled Pooh, as he found his bourbon had
ML>> turned to scotch -!- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
MG>> KNown in better parts ofthe world as the Midas Touch.
ML> Scotch probably does smell like an old muffler.
MG> You hanging around the garage with other Bourbon drinkers?
Just tuning up the old Harley.
MG> Or have
MG> you switched to the good stuff....Miller Lite?
Only a scotch soaked supper would think Sheet's choice is "the
good stuff".
... "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:52:30
EID:335c 21986e80
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>> When did you ever bash a scotch drinker?
ML> Most anytime I mention immunology(ists) and those with a
ML> profound lack of taste.
MG> You've been out there chiseling rocks too long.
Hardly. It's the place to go for reflectance and typically more
interesting conversations than with any fundy.
... 35th Rule of Creationism: Call on the 'Global Scientific Conspiracy"!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: HolySmoke Concention?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:53:40
EID:e5ae 21986ea0
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> And a scotch drinker's table...out in back by the dumpster.
ML> That's the only way to mask the redolence.
MG> By pullonb bottles of Old Limberger out of the dump?
Nahhh...those old ClanMcLimberger bottles explode nicely when
hit with small arms fire.
MG> I doubt it?
I don't.
... Appleton does more for evolution than his limited mind comprehends.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:11:19
EID:a943 21987160
Jesse Jones, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
JJ> Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JESSE JONES on 12-15-96
ML> JJ> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the denizens
ML> JJ> of this hell hole
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
JJ> too long :-)
But why? Addiction or a need to be humiliated publicly?
ML> JJ> are not in any way typical of that small portion of
ML> JJ> atheists in this country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping generalizations?
ML> Is this _just_ your opinion or do you have some evidence with
ML> which to back it?
JJ> Marty, I know you're not really that stupid.
Unfortunate that I cannot truthfully make that same remark
about you.
JJ> It is manifestly
JJ> an opinion, based on experience.
A set consisting of exactly one element. Rather wanting, wouldn't you
agree?
JJ> How would one "prove" a statement
JJ> like that?
Prove, schmove. How about the old tried and true "provide
evidence" instead?
JJ> It is based on a characterization, a conclusion, about
JJ> the participants here. It is not quantifiable.
It is, and it's demonstratively false. Strike two, Jesse.
ML> JJ> The writer's point is well taken: those
ML> JJ> participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
ML> Since you seem to agree with this uninformed viewpoint, please
ML> elucidate. Specifically, just how am I (a wicked old atheist of
ML> the highest degree) insecure about "my atheism"?
JJ> In my experience, most atheists have stared into the abyss of
JJ> immortality and come back with a brave defiance.
Your experience seems incredibly limited; certainly
insufficient for your overbroad and inane proclamations.
JJ> Such folks have no
JJ> reason
They have plenty of reason and less than 1 God. That puts them
leagues ahead of those who do not.
JJ> -- and indeed their insight would direct them elsewhere -- to
JJ> attack and ridicule believers.
Did you ever stop to think that you might just deserve your
treatment here for your "insights", or, more precisely, the
lack thereof?
JJ> The gathering of heathens
Who? I doubt strongly there are many heath dwellers here.
Oh, by the way; my Muslim friends consider you an infidel of
the first water. Nothing like the enemy within, 'eh, Jesse?
JJ> here to bash
JJ> believers evidences deep-rooted insecurity, a profound fear that there
JJ> may indeed be a god who needs therefore to be battled.
When you're wrong, you certainly don't quail at pulling out all
the stops, do you? What we do fear, and despise, is the inculcated
ignorance, intolerance and idiocy promulgated under the guise of
religion.
It is that, and only that, which we "battle". That you feel
threatened by this solidly places you into that camp of
blighted assets.
... Concrete minds...stirred up..full of rocks...and permantly set!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Who gives what
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:19:54
EID:1e6e 21987260
Jesse Jones, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
JJ> Quoting MARTY LEIPZIG to JESSE JONES on 12-15-96
ML> ML> FR>And don't forget, fucker, that secular institutions are run
ML> ML> FR>into extinction because Christians won't donate to them.
ML> ML> JJ> What possible obligation do Christians have to give
ML> ML> JJ> financial support to secular institutions?
ML> ML> What possible obligation do secularists have to give
ML> ML> financial support to Christian institutions (viz: vouchers)?
ML> JJ> None whatsoever. And I am strongly opposed to school
ML> JJ> vouchers.
ML> Quite agreed, old bean.
ML> But why stop there? What of Armed Forces chaplains, tax-exempt
ML> churches (for instance; a church in West Houston burned last
ML> week [HolySmoke!], who pays for the fire department?) and the
ML> remainder of the religious ilk that are supported by secular
ML> (read tax) funds?
JJ> Well, you raise a good point.
As usual.
JJ> I think the public school is a
JJ> special case, and needs public support unfettered by religious
JJ> doctrine. But you are right that historically there have been many
JJ> ties between church and state. Can you imagine the hue and cry if
you
JJ> tried to eliminate military chaplains?
Let 'em hue and let 'em cry. It's nothing more than publicly
supported religion.
JJ> There is indeed great inconsistency between theory and
JJ> practice. I would like to see a meaningful public dialogue which
JJ> could better articulate the proper relationship between church and
JJ> state.
How's this for articulate: "total separation"? Brief, as well.
JJ> But until such dialogue develops, I suspect you heathens have
JJ> more to lose than to gain.
Again with the "heathens", infidel? Just how, pray tell, could
non-religious types have anything to lose in total and complete
church/state separation?
JJ> My advice to you is to continue to lay
JJ> low. :-)
Well, Jesse, hate to burst your rose-colored bubble, but here's
one very vocal and high-profile atheist that is VERY active on
two local school boards, numerous FIDO and Internet forums, and
at least a dozen scientific societies. I attack ignorance,
culpability and baseless beliefs in many forms. That you choose
to call yours Christianity just makes for an easier target on which
to align the crosshairs.
... Atheism is no more a religion than abstinence is a form of drinking.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:26:29
EID:1154 21987340
Dave Hamilton, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
mg>>> Yeah...if Jimbo started thinking..well...let's
mg>>> not discuss it. It's too macabre to talk about.
FR>> I would start looking for the pods.
MG>> That's just Terrifid.
ML> A little sea water will take care of that problem.
DH> Shh, you might wake the Kraken.
That's OK. I know Perseus; and Medusa gave him a little head.
... Can't find me? Follow the clouds of smoke...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:27:12
EID:cf1f 21987360
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DM> Marty Leipzig said "2 CORINTHIANS 9:13" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> diverting diverticulitis I have ever encountered, but I do
DM> hope you get better.
ML> Spaseebah bolshoi. It's a most amusing ailment; just
ML> dandy what it does to one's dietary definitions. "If it tastes
ML> good, spit it out." Great. A medical memorandum to exist solely on
ML> haggis and scotch.
DM> Do I detect a Quaker in your future, bearing lots and lots of
DM> oats?
I hope they sow wild oats and have a crop failure.
ML> Where's my gun?...
DM> From what I read around here, should it come to that, you have
DM> enough to declare war on yourself and three of the smaller counties
DM> in Texas. Just eat your oatmeal . . .
I would, it's just that oatmeal looks like it's all ready
*been* eaten once.
... Chocolate arboreal marsupial bioluminescence? It's cocoa-koala light.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:28:32
EID:a810 21987380
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
DM> Marty Leipzig said ""FLAT EARTH" TOWN" to Don Martin, adding:
RS> Ah, I sit back in glee to watch further evasion and IS NOTs
RS> from Andrew . . .
DM> There comin', by Gum, you can hear them come. If his daughter
DM> regains her hearing, will you convert? She is, according to her
DM> father, a Virgin.
ML> "They've taken a strict vow of celibacy; like their fathers, and
ML> their fathers before them."
DM> Now, if they would only take a strict view of literacy so they
DM> knew what celibacy _meant_ . . .
You expect them to get up off their elbows just for that?
... We all chipped in and bought you a hernia transplant.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 25 Dec 96 05:16:47
EID:ae88 21992a00
Curtis Johnson, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SM>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
JH>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
DC>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
DR>> GRACCHUS! GRACCHUS! REFORM HIM!
DR>> GRAFTER! GRAFTER! CON HIM!
DR>> GRAHAM! GRAHAM! CRACKER HIM!
ML> GRAVAMENS! GRAVAMENS! GRIPE HIM!
ML> GRAND JURY! GRAND JURY! INDICT HIM!
CJ> GEOLOGISTS! GEOLOGISTS! STONE HIM!
GEOPHYSICISTS! GEOPHYSICISTS! BOUGER HIM!
... Are Free Air Geophysicists afraid of the Bouger Man?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 25 Dec 96 05:25:09
EID:5674 21992b20
Steve Hayes, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to David
Worrell
SH> I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
SH> Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone
SH> need a liver?"
1. Do you always answer honest questions with evasive
questions?
2. A liver is a tangible organ which one must possess one which
functions in order to survive.
Now, are you saying that one needs to be "saved" (whatever that
may be; you've never bothered to define the term) in order to
survive?
I can almost instantly provide you with vast amounts of
evidence which indicate that you have promulgated a false
statement. Do you have any real, cold, hard, physical evidence
to support your specious claim?
... Creationist, 'eh? Now we've got to find someone fluent in stupid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 25 Dec 96 05:46:02
EID:3537 21992dc0
Judith Bandsma, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Martin Goldberg <=-
ML> Sheesh. It's a good thing I didn't tell him about what I did to
ML> the Girl Scouts who came by here last month.
JB> Made them toss their cookies, huh?
Nahhhh, just did the old Addams Family routine and asked them
just how much Girl Scout there was in those Girl Scout
cookies.
Some people just can't take a joke.
... "No, he doesn't want to hurt him-it's just high-impact chiropractics."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Bluewave OLR and stuff...
|Date: 25 Dec 96 05:47:49
EID:4d3e 21992de0
Judith Bandsma, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
ML> back to the still registered and still resident v2.12)? It
JB> I knew there was a post I forgot to answer. Mine did the same
JB> thing a while back. I got it to reaccept the registration code by
JB> changing the NAME in the registration box. I figured as long as I had
JB> the letter with the code in it I was ok.
JB> Why changing my name got it to work is something I'd sure like to hear
JB> an explanation for.
I have tried everything: delete and reinstall, different name,
different registration number, stand on my head and spit
quarters, mutter incomprehensibly, threaten the damn thing
at large caliber gunpoint, force it to drink scotch (damn
near wiped out everything on that last one)...
To which I finally said "Screw this!". So, I have to wait 15
seconds for the goofy thing to load. That gives me enough time
to think of all of Jim Staal's and Billyboy Wolff's positive
attributes; but I still don't know what to do with the
remaining 14.9965 seconds...
... Feel free to try our primordial soup & salad bar-Biopoesis Restaurant
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Holysmoke
|Date: 25 Dec 96 05:55:50
EID:a3bc 21992ee0
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to All
DM> John Jeanneault said "HOLYSMOKE" to All Christians, adding:
JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ> by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ> or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
is
JJ> only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only reason
JJ> the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the roasting and
JJ> ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of dialogue or
JJ> debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and arrogant for
the
JJ> most part. To continue posting and "debating" with them is tantamount
JJ> to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction. To continue to post
JJ> is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to "cast your pearls
JJ> before swine".
DM> Has anyone here _ever_ seen a pearl from this bozo?
No pearls, but certainly a large amount of gray, wet, slimy
material that looks like it might just share some kinship with
_Ostrea malaclausta_.
... Alex, I'll take 'Lying Creationist Shills and their tactics' for $0.02
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: LITERALLY SEAKING 1/
|Date: 25 Dec 96 06:09:45
EID:66d4 21993120
Roger Hunter, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Can't let these pagan females get too puffed up, ya know.
ML> Prick 'em to deflate 'em?
RH> Now -there's- a sexist remark!
Not at all; your mind must be in the gutter...
RH> I'd be happy to, but my wife would kill me!
At least you'd go smiling.
... 0.001501501501502: the reciprocal of the Beast
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:47:14
EID:f9c7 219945e0
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
AS> It is every AMERICAN's right to bear arms, Christian or not. I
AS> personally would prefer more gun control, to keep it out of the hands
AS> of known offenders and the mentally unbalanced.
ML> Al, there currently are over 25,000 gun laws on the books now.
ML> You can see how well they're working.
ML> What do you suggest?
AS> Restrictions on handguns the same way we restrict submachine guns.
Looks like that caveat is lost on the Drug Cartels. Very
effective, restricting Uzis and the like.
AS> Marty, you rarely can do anything with a handgun save kill another
AS> human being.
So? They make holes in paper targets and cause some hilarious
physics demonstrations. The point being, most anything can (and
usually is) misused. Witness computers (which can be a
marvelous teaching aid) in the hands of fundies.
AS> They are rarely helpful in hunting (please note the
AS> rarely) the way rifles are,
You narrowly escaped my tale of the Russian Boar hunt in Uvalde
County, Texas. We go handgunning for hogs every year.
AS> and rifles can also be used to protect the
AS> home,
Pucky de cheval! Rifles and handguns are terrible home defense
weapons (they, like the energizer bunny, keep going and going
and going...). A short barreled 12 or 10 gauge with 000 chill
buckshot followed by a rifled deer slug is the best, bar none,
home defense weapon (in fact, it's an original point and click
interface).
AS> and are MORE useful, not less, than handguns if a dictatorship
AS> arose and we needed to foment a rebellion.
Not true, you're comparing apples with automatics, again.
Rifles are long-reach weapons, suitable for sniping, and
general harassment. Handguns are for when the situation calls
for some up close and personal interdiction.
Merely two different tools for two different jobs. Odd, I don't
see people demonizing claw and ball peen hammers.
AS> The handguns are too easily concealable.
So are knives, acid bottles, axe handles, ice picks, short
standards, tonfas, ad infinitum. Your point?
AS> Last year, a kid in a wheelchair, on a dare, smuggled his mother's
AS> handgun into a school locally.
Yeah, those damn kids; such scofflaws.
AS> Another kid was allowed to hold it.
AS> The kid pulled the trigger by accident. He killed a third kid.
So tell me, Al. Just which of the 25,000 gun laws currently on
the books would have prevented this?
AS> That third kid could have been any of mine. (Or yours, if they are
AS> still of school age. Or anyone's here.)
No, Al, not mine. The know full well what a gun is and what it
is for (my eldest daughter took second place in the silhouette
competition for her age group at the range last month...I only
took 4'th in the Master's tourney.). Al, I make damn sure my
kids know what guns can do, particularly since I possess
numerous handguns (I collect large caliber weapons as an
investment), shotguns and long guns. Of course, most are locked
in my gun safe and all have trigger locks; but I don't go for
this "bury your head in the sand and keep mysterious these
guns" attitude. My daughters know about guns and know that they
are not toys nor for playing with. Now that I've de-mistifyed
them, they wouldn't give them a second thought (although
aforementioned daughter can field strip her Browning .40 faster
than Daddy can even kick the clip out of one of my Glocks..)
AS> I could see specific licenses to carry handguns...for women in
AS> high-risk professions, for bonded agents, etc.
Or citizens who pony up the registration fee, and pass the test;
like the one here in Texas.
AS> Or for people who
AS> travel the world in high-risk areas, like you, Marty.
Hey, I freely admit to packing heat. Always have (I do travel
to some fairly remote areas domestically) and will continue
(99% of the time you cannot tell that I'm carrying, and I don't
bother to flaunt it. The permit's for carrying a CONCEALED
weapon. So I do.) To me, it's just another tool, like my
Brunton or geologist's hammer. Neither more mundane nor
more glamorous.
AS> I don't like this conclusion. I love the Constitution and
AS> understood exactly why the right to bear arms is in there. But we are
AS> killing our kids by the hundreds
Oh, come on, Al. Let's color the issue with a nice sloppy,
soppy, syrupy coat of emotion. How many are killed in automobile
wrecks? By fires? By drugs?
Weep for the children, Al, but don't use them as a pawn in some
emotive semantic game.
AS> to guarentee our ability to fight a
AS> dictatorship which may never come.
They'd have a rough time in this neck of the woods. In fact, if
we're ever party to a herd of loose rampaging rhinoceri, I've
got that covered as well.
AS> I see the murder by violence rates
AS> of European countries, and wonder if it's worth the cost.
Cast a gander at the root cause of a large proportion of those
deaths. Religiously motivated. Shall we ban the Bible now or
later, Al?
AS> Mistakes will always happen with weapons. Children will always
AS> accidentally be killed by them.
They're killed in myriad other ways and at a far more rapid
clip than by handguns. So, Al, what do you want, to wrap them
all in a cocoon?
AS> But we can lower the odds, by making
AS> the weapons stand out, and not so easily concealable.
I prefer a dose of education to your trying to legislate
behavior away. Your method has proven to be an abysmal
failure; mine has not. In fact, it's the most efficacious
weapon we have [pardon upcoming pun] in our arsenal.
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Here, take this shotgun and go to Florida"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 25 Dec 96 06:48:38
EID:ce5a 21993600
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
AS> Um. Dan, what is the fate of the rapist in most cases in the
AS> worldview of a Christian...the eventual, eternal fate?
ML> If he repents and is really very, very sorry?
ML> Eternity with a deity of his choice.
AS> Yes. IF.
Bolshoi "if", AL.
AS> But most rapists become repeat offenders, if offered the opportunity.
Do you have statistics to support this claim?
AS> "Neither do I judge you. Go, and sin no more." You have to turn from
AS> the sin to show you are in earnest. Oh, you can fall occasionally, but
AS> rape's not one of those things that I would consider an occasional
AS> fall. It's a deliberate act of violence. It's like saying you're
AS> sorry you're a killer...and then going out and shooting someone.
AS> It puts the lie to your very words.
No matter. Just repent and be very, very sorry on your death
bed (gurney, chair, scaffold, whatever) and *POOF*, instant
eternal enhancement with your favorite deity.
... Brain wave flat, still mumbling "creationism"; It's Laurie Appleton!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 25 Dec 96 06:51:32
EID:4320 21993660
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
AS> Well, I always wanted to be a conductor...
ML> Only if you have covalent bands.
AS> I try to keep current...
I hear you play the guitar, put the ampere.
AS> if you send an electric
AS> shock through me, will that make me a superconductor?
ML> Practice makes perfect.
AS> That's a shocking answer...
Need new power, must revolt.
... Equal time for Evolutionary Theory in churches!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Welcome to the state of TAXES.
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:47:47
EID:5da0 219945e0
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Care to venture a guess of the type of offer I received from a
ML> monopoly? (Can't say that I really blame them, though. Savvy
ML> business on their part.)
ML> Really makes one want to get out in the world and try to make
ML> a living, doesn't it?
AS> Sorry to hear about all that, Marty.
ML> A major pain-in-the-ass episode.
AS> It sounds it.
Major League Charles Fox material.
AS> Ever thought about going to a
AS> newsmagazine like 60 Minutes? I think a little publicity on this sort
AS> of silliness would work wonders.
ML> After the fact. Although I may be in the position for the same
ML> type of compensation in the near future. I'm going to fight
ML> for this one like a pitbull on a fundy's arm if it ever happens
ML> again.
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper.
You really need to stop leaving straight lines lying about like
that, Al.
AS> He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very unusual.
Might it be that we're being set up for a grand Hardyesque
jape?
... "Nemo exspectat Inquisitionem Hispanicam!" --Montius Pythonius
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 25 Dec 96 07:03:55
EID:bfd8 21993860
Mimi Milstein, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Judith
Bandsma
MM> Hello Judith!
MM> Judith Bandsma wrote in a message to Christian Hedemark:
CH> China is also well known for killing monks (non-Christian).
JB> That's strange. Den Haag (NL) Yearly Meeting of the
JB> Religious Society of Friends has had a mission in China
JB> continuously for the last 50 years. Even under Mao, they
JB> were never interfered with.
JB> And Quakers do NOT hide their activities.
MM> Last news from China this poor guy had was probably on
MM> the Boxer revolt.
He had to be briefed.
... Two long years, bones and beaches, fever and leeches did their worst.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Fido shits again
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:48:11
EID:e7bf 21994600
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Judith
Bandsma
DM> Judith Bandsma said "FIDO SHITS AGAIN" to All, adding:
JB> Looks like my mail isn't getting out again. If anyone sees this, let
JB> me know.
DM> [Corporal Klink voice]: I saw nussing, nussing. . . .
Actually, it was Colonel Klink; but Sargeant Schultz was the
one who uttered those immortal lines.
(Gad. Have we really sunk so low as to be discussing the
attributes of Hogan's Heroes?)
... Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: mustard bath
|Date: 25 Dec 96 07:09:50
EID:c4a1 21993920
Curtis Johnson, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to David
Rice
CJ> On 19 Dec 96 01:06pm, DAVID RICE wrote to FREDRIC RICE:
DR> Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person
DR> need?!
CJ> Bread and sardines.
Beer and cigars.
... "No man is a 3-mile island, Glenn."- Joel, "The Amazing Colossal Man"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 25 Dec 96 07:14:02
EID:30be 219939c0
Marilyn Burge, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Rod
Swift
MB> On (17 Dec 96) Rod Swift wrote to Marilyn Burge...
RS> On 08-08-96 at 19:53, MARILYN BURGE wrote to DOUG SCHWANDT:
MB> MB> I am preparing a paper based on my research with local (Cedar Rapids,
MB> MB> Iowa) fossils.
MB> SEND IT TO ME. (I can't wait to see herds
MB> of partially pyritized _Platystrophia ponderosa_).
RS> Ponderosa? Maybe you'll find a fossilised Hoss! :) A literal
RS> BONANZA of fossils there... :)
MB> MB> After it is proofread by persons who think more
MB> MB> critically than I, I will make it available to anyone who wishes
to
MB> MB> see it.
MB> Send it to me, an international petroleum geologist.
RS> I think he bit off a bit more than he could eschew! :)
RS> Rod "...he's probably a cretinist. Rip him to little itty bits,
RS> Marilyn! :)" Swift
MB>
MB> The message got clobbered somewhere along the line. It's
MB> Marty Leipzig who is the international petroleum geologist,
MB> not me. I'm just a lowly ninth-grade dropout.
"...lowly..."? Hardly. Although my good will offer to Herr
Schwandtz still stands.
... 19th Rule of Creationism: Always, always, always appeal to authority.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Houston Shit
|Date: 25 Dec 96 07:20:59
EID:aa05 21993a80
J.J. Hitt, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
JH>> You know that mound of dirt at 59 and 610?
ML> That's alluvial fill, you geoheathen.
JH> Shit... I coulda sworn it was dirt left over from when they built
JH> the damned interchange.
And, living on the coastal plain, that makes the fill...?
JH>> then was a water slide, then a putt-putt golf kiddie park, then
JH>> a Country Western open air theatre?
ML> Location, location, location...
JH> 59 and 610, like I said. SW corner.
I know. I was commenting on the three things that make for a
successful business.
JH>> It is now "Prayer Mountain".
JH>> (I've no idea just what they do there yet, or who runs
JH>> it.)
ML> 10 to 1, it's the SoBapt's trying another way to turn a
ML> buck.
JH> Nah... Without having even visted the place, I'm willing to bet
JH> it's targeted at an even lower strata: black Reverend Ike clones.
They're all bottom dwellers.
JH> (Where in the hell is Jew Don Boney's church anyway?) The hand
JH> painted signs are a dead give-away. The Southern Baptists
JH> would put up glitzy billboard like affairs you could see from orbit.
And have members of the local federales directing traffic for
them, on our nickel.
... Cemetery: (n); A marble orchard you can take for granite.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:02:49
EID:6d16 21994040
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
SQ> Salue, Marty!
SQ> Hey, what happened with the watch?
SQ> Dies solis December 15 1996, Dixit Marty Leipzig ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> And it is obvious to any objective observer that the denizens
JJ>> of this hell hole
ML> Umm...Jesse. How long have YOU been posting here?
SQ> Funny how he evades THIS question, too.
Well, he *does* claim to be a lawyer.
JJ>> are not in any way typical of that small portion of atheists in this
JJ>> country.
ML> How so? How can you make such broadly sweeping generalizations?
SQ> He personally knows all the other atheists. :-/
10 to 1, he really knows none. They scare the hell out of him.
ML> Is this _just_ your opinion or do you have some evidence with
ML> which to back it?
SQ>
"Lazy, stay in bed..."
SQ> "That's a stupid question. I will not answer it."
JJ>> The writer's point is well taken: those
JJ>> participating here obviously are insecure about their atheism.
SQ> While Jones is ignorant of atheism, period.
Among myriad other little details.
... Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 25 Dec 96 08:49:37
EID:9846 21994620
Jesse Jones, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to All
JJ> Quoting JOHN JEANNEAULT to ALL CHRISTIANS on 12-13-96
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
JJ>by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
JJ>or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
JJ>is only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only
JJ>reason the enemies of Christ post here, is to participate in the
JJ>roasting and ridicule, not because they are interested in any sort of
JJ>dialogue or debate with Christians. They are rude, closeminded and
JJ>arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debating" with
JJ>them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and
JJ> destruction. T
JJ>o continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to
JJ>"cast your pearls before swine".
JJ>Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ>presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
JJ>will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ>your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ>them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ>them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant and
JJ>"persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ>of credence by HolySmokers.
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
JJ> losers.
And Sir Jesse ran away; when heathens raised their head, brave
Sir Jesse turned tail and fled.
Yet another in a long line of Cowards for Christ.
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
JJ> to hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet
as
JJ> a testimony against them.""
We're really going to miss you, Jesse. But, then again,
there'll be others who will gladly pick up your threadbare and
shoddy gauntlet.
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
Why not trill instead? Hell, any idiot can pray.
... Don't leave in a huff. Let me call you a honey wagon.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 15 Dec 96 14:30:08
EID:7baa 218f73c0
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32b4675a
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
AM> Whats lead you to believe that God wants people to suffer and be in
AM> poverty?
The fact that there's millions of people in wretched, no-way-out
poverty. There's also supposed to be a god who allegedly caused
floods, plagues, seas to open, etc., yet who won't do anything
about human suffering except to inspire ministers to insist that the
poor and suffering give yet MORE money away in the hope it will
impress this god (and it never really does, y'know).
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Jim Hansen
|Sub: literally seaking 1/
|Date: 13 Dec 96 13:51:16
EID:0e00 218d6e60
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32b4675b
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
CJ> If Jesus was a man, where did the matched set (minus the
CJ> sex-determining region on chromosome #23) come from?
JH> Again, you are using Natural Law to try and disprove a Supernatural
JH> event.
This argument, while it may impress some religionists, is
awfully silly.
Look: I have a 10-foot rabbit in my back pocket who will pinch
off the Pope's head if you don't spray paint "I eat shit" on the
driver's side of the next cruiser you see.
No fair trying to disprove this Supernatural event by using a
Natural Law now.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Lying Curry Scum
|Date: 15 Dec 96 15:25:36
EID:6eec 218f7b20
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32b4675c
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
JJ> Anyway, I hope you will do something more than sputter about
JJ> this, and show in what specifics the article I cited is inconsistent
JJ> with my position that atheists, for the most part, do not do good
JJ> things (although, to be fair [not that anyone here is concerned to
be
JJ> fair], this citation first came up to support the related position
JJ> that people of faith do more good works than do secular folk).
This is particularly odious. Assuming that said article exists, you
need to define 'faith' and 'good works' and 'secular' anyway, and
then show how these conclusions were gathered, before it is more
impressive than some propaganda painfully hacked out in a cheap hotel
room by some schizophrenic fundamentalist with shaky hands,
piss-stained pants and a hangover, trying to atone for the previous
night's debauchery with a 16-year old.
You also need some MEASUREMENT of 'good works'. Money? Time?
Kindness? How do you measure kindness? And how do you find a
respectable non-religious sample size anyway, if Wiens' (if I
remember correctly) claim is true that only 2-6% (or something) of
the population is not in love with Jesus.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Jim Hansen
|Sub: literally seaking 1/
|Date: 14 Dec 96 14:40:42
EID:0e00 218e7500
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32b4675d
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
MG> Do you have hard evidence that the supernatural exists?
MG> [ ] Yes
MG> [ ] No
JH> That would depend on what kind of "hard evidence" you expect.
Oopsie! You forgot to check a box :)
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 15 Dec 96 14:53:10
EID:fedb 218f76a0
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32b4675e
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
NC> Every give some thought that the "4+billion" is here because of
NC> man's own stupidity and arrogance?
Hahahahaha ...
No, it's because of copulation. Population increases because the
birth rate exceeds the death rate. It's a mathematical thing. Look:
Let B = number of births within some time window, d = number of
deaths. If B/d > 1 then you have, at that point in time, an INCREASE
in the population. If B/d < 1 you have a DECREASE, and if B/d = 1
then there's no change.
Now, if over a period of time (say, 10 years) you were to plot B/d on
a graph every month, you could make some conclusions about the
population RATE of increase or decrease. But you could never make an
assumption about man's arrogance or stupidity. You'd need vast
amounts of psychological and IQ testing for that.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 18 Dec 96 13:02:41
EID:07f6 21926840
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32ba0030
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
DC>Now, show evidence that your god exists, Jesse.
JJ> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist. Can you prove to me that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist? For anyone or anything else
to
JJ> exist?
Evidence is a -symptom- of existence. Those things that exhibit no
symptoms of existence are, sooner or later, forgotten. Just like your
god will someday be forgotten, and a new one will take its place.
Not that it wasn't a nice idea, just that the son-of-a-bitch forgot
to show up.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Robert Burke
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 18 Dec 96 12:52:38
EID:89e7 21926680
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32ba0031
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
RB> We should also teach our children the pain, horror, and pain of
RB> atheism.
WTF do you know about atheism?
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:20:23
EID:05a5 21987a80
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 23389f6a
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 687e1c5a
On (21 Dec 96) Marilyn Burge wrote to Don Martin...
Hi Marilyn...
MB> On (20 Dec 96) Don Martin wrote to Steve Quarrella...
DM> Steve Quarrella said "CARL SAGAN" to Bill Wolff, adding:
SQ> I am told that Sagan died yesterday. Comments?
DM> The National Public Radio report of his death had a clip from a
DM> few years ago when Sagan was asked about his religious beliefs.
DM> His reply went something like "One cannot study these things
DM> without being filled with a sense of awe and wonder at the
DM> grandeur of the universe. Do I believe that some god created it
DM> all? No." I predict that we shall see Wolff and/or other
DM> fundies quoting the first sentence (only).
MB> But, the second sentence is so short, it'll never be missed!
You know Marilyn... I generally think of you as one of the more
intelligent ones around here. Remember, you were almost the only one
who asked questions about the original Carl Sagan quote and
questioned it's meaning intelligently. But sometimes, although
rarely... you appear to no better than the rest of the idiots.
Personally, I like you better the other way.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:20:37
EID:29b1 21987a80
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 bd216f51
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bd1320
On (21 Dec 96) Don Martin wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DM> Certainly not by Wolff and/or the other fundies.
Still foolishly confusing me with a fundy? Since Carl Sagan and I
agree on almost all grounds. That is like calling Carl Sagan a
fundy. Of course, I expect fools like you to not understand. And
gee... speaking about fools... you haven't learned one damn thing in
years, have you? I really met some dumb people in my life, but this
group truly takes the cake.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:20:50
EID:60b8 21987a80
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 495643f0
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 21968361
On (22 Dec 96) Brian Kolacy wrote to ** ALL **...
BK> You probably already know this, but Carl Sagan died early in
BK> the morning on Friday 27...
Try Friday, the 20th.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Jimmy Swaggart: True Christian! Don't deny it!
|Date: 25 Dec 96 11:07:22
EID:3480 219958e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c10b7a
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet ae8919bc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
Saturday December 14 1996 09:59, Fredric Rice wrote to Marty Leipzig:
FR> I think the human animal _wants_ to be misled, taken advantage of, lied
to,
FR> and made the fool. And I have yet to see any Christian master who wouldn't
FR> gladly oblige their followers.
Well, THIS human animal is an old grey wolf who has NO intention of tolerating
the way Christian 'shepherds' treat their 'sheep'. (Which you so accurately
described above.)
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... Achieve Blender Consciousness: visualize whirled peas
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Its Xmas, be nice to them!
|Date: 25 Dec 96 11:15:37
EID:0401 219959e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c10d1e
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32b44030
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Chris Green!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Chris Green
whisper furtively to All something about Its Xmas, be nice to them!:
CG> Not on the 25th December, some time in the summer wasn't it?
Actually , internal evidence in GLuke points to an April-May timeframe.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Law: The art of crippling you and then charging rent on the crutch.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christianity #1 of 6 [1]
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:24:52
EID:c02c 21985300
MSGID: 1:207/212 702ba275
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 21907529
On (21 Dec 96) Christian Hedemark wrote to David Rice...
CH> You brought up:
CH> DR>LIFE IN OUR ANTI-CHRISTIAN AMERICA
CH> DR>Compiled by Robby Berry
CH> DR>Copyright (c) Internet Infidels 1996. All rights reserved.
Do you really get the meaning of this text file, Christian?
DR> 1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that
CH> DR>Christians should not be considered patriots or real American
CH> citizens.
CH> George is not an elected Christian spokesman. His statement is
CH> acceptable to me. Christianity has little to do with patriotism. As
CH> for citizenship, they identify with being "not of this world". Of
CH> course, we reside for now in various countries. American, Canadian,
CH> French... is
CH> secondary to being a Christian.
Do you understand that this quote indicates that even the president of
the united states can get away with making pro Christian statements?
DR> 13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the
CH> DR>Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been
CH> court DR>cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a
CH> Christian who DR>insisted on swearing on a Bible.
CH> If you knew the Bible's instruction on oaths, you would know why
CH> Christians often "affirm", and will not "swear".
Why the Bible?
DR> 14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but
CH> DR>those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will
CH> be DR>politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
CH> The second part is true in some public schools, and some industry.
Actually, no.
DR> 15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly
CH> DR>impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as
CH> DR>Christmas.
CH> Right! Many stores require employees (sales clerks, cash register
CH> operators, food service, drug stores... etc.) to work, to get more
CH> last minute sales. Another problem day for many is "Good Friday".
CH> This day
CH> has more meaning for most Christians than does Christmas, but is
CH> recognized by few employers.
OK, a few Christians have time off for the holidays that haven't made it
into the primary culture. HOWEVER - I'm writing this on Christmas Eve
and I will bet you that I couldn't get into a mall tomorrow if my life
depended on it.
CH> In the "yes/no" column, the writer got this right, but for the wrong
CH> reasons. Saying "bless you" is based on superstition, and recognizes
CH> "evil spirits". Christianity does not support superstition.
Christianity *is* superstition.
CH> It took a few months, and a private attorney, to convince the school
CH> that this descrimination was illegal.
CH> No other clubs had to go through this.
Because no other clubs involved worship of a god.
... Always say "thank you" even if you don't mean it.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Dec 96 20:53:08
EID:1cc9 2197a6a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 a802e7e0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 951002e9
On (21 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Yeah, but being a _man_ a penis is a good indication of gender, whether
JS> you choose to have sex or not.
CJ> Aha. I think we've arrived at your real reason for
CJ> believing he had to have a penis.
CJ> Also interesting is your phrasing, which seems to indicate
CJ> that you think the penis is the man, hang the rest.
Not by any means. I was never the dude who was led around by his dick.
I'm rather bashful in the shower room, as a matter of fact. To even
think such a thing would be as bad as judging a chick by the size of her
hooters.
... Let them learn first to shew piety at home. - 1 Timothy 5:4
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: bold-faced liar
|Date: 23 Dec 96 20:55:24
EID:47b2 2197a6e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 10deea0c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 95100360
On (21 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> What are 'unitarian Christians'?
CJ> Just what did JC say about ensoulment? You haven't
CJ> presented any evidence that he accorded with your view; I
CJ> presented a statement from a weighty authority that he did.
That He accorded with my view? There was never any doubt about that.
However, I don't have any recollection that He addressed the problem.
CJ> Do you even need to know what a unitarian Christian is to
CJ> know whether or not it's OK to execute them for their beliefs
CJ> alone?! I'm sure this gives great comfort to Unitarians (the
CJ> denomination).
It is not OK to execute them for their beliefs, OK?
CJ> Simply put, it is a Christian who is not a trinitarian,
CJ> i.e., disagrees about Jesus being God Almighty Himself, but who
CJ> who can take the Bible very seriously indeed. (Indeed, most
CJ> will tell you it's precisely because they take the Bible
CJ> seriously.) A good specimen would be Jehovah's Witnesses.
I understand. I have JW friends.
CJ> CJ>> (I won't even get into whether you're in "one accord"
CJ> CJ>> with the Bible, though that could be a lot of fun!)
JS> Have at it, dude.
CJ> At the appropriate time.
Lemme know...
... Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of the promise. (Gal
4:28)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: execute jim?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 20:57:58
EID:b580 2197a720
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 402f7bef
REPLY: 1:261/1137 951003d7
On (21 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson wrote to Jim Staal...
CJ> CJ>> CJ>> executed as a heretic (to be exact, though, he'd favored
CJ> mere CJ>> CJ>> beheading for Servetus).
CJ> JS>> Sounds disgustingly evil. Tsk, John, tsk!
CJ> CJ>> And just how light a sin do you think it is to kill other
CJ> CJ>> Christians over differing interpretations of the Bible?
JS> Just where did I make light of it?
CJ> The above.
Sorry. It wasn't my intent.
... Be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Peculiar state of mind.
|Date: 23 Dec 96 20:59:13
EID:0add 2197a760
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 e864773b
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8659303e
On (22 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton wrote to Jim Staal...
LA> You are joking aren't you? I am NOT a Big Banger at all
LA> and Big Bangers is what Hoyle is talking about!
JS> You aren't? I am! God spoke it and _BANG_ it was there!
LA> Do you mean the whole Universe or just the Earth? Are you
LA> of the opinion that it has taken maybe 8 billion (and
LA> perhaps up to 18 billion) years to arrive at today's world?
No. I believe the world is about 6,000 years old, that God spoke it into
existance in 6 days and on the 7th day, rested from His labors, even as
the Bible says. I know this is foolishness to many, but God said it (in
the Bible> and that settles it for me.
LA> Did you know that even one of its main advocates (Alan
LA> Guth) uses the term "speculation squared" in respect to some
LA> aspects of it? Let me repeat what Hoyle has said;
LA> That is a most damning comment on Big Bangism, isn't it
LA> and since it was made by one who should know about such
LA> things then the current "scientific" Big Bang certainly
LA> looks dreadfully sick, don't you think?
Thanks for the quote. I hope I have made myself clear as far as what I
believe concerning 'big bang'.
... Charity envieth not. - 1 Corinthians 13:4
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:02:46
EID:b74f 2197a840
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f7ef8635
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5B439C
On (22 Dec 96) Michael Hardy wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg <=-
JS> I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that a homosexual is a
JS> person just as I am, and deserves the same respect I desire.
MG> Why would homosexuality be a sin? Just because it says so int he
MG> bible? If the answer is "yes", you need to think the matter over.
JS> Without the Bible to tell us so, there would be no notion of sin.
MH> So then, perhaps sin is simply an invention of the culture which
MH> wrote the Bible, and has no external reality?
I don't believe a 'culture' wrote the Bible. I believe that the Bible
is for all time, and must be interpreted via itself and the Holy
Spirit. (you know I am an inerrantist, Michael)
JS> ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - Acts 9:5
MH> Who you callin' a prick, milk crate boy? hehehehe
LOL!
MH> ... You can do better than that, Jim. (You CAN, can't you?)
Ah...merely one of those 'random tagline' gigs. :)
... Despise not prophesyings. (1 The 5:20)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:04:53
EID:da4b 2197a880
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 667ad250
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc47b
On (22 Dec 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Jim Staal...
AS> With all due respect to Jim, I would not trade posts with him.
JS> What's up here, Al, and what did I miss? And what did I do to deserve
JS> this?
AS> Deserve what? I merely said that I would not trade posts with you.
AS> You have your own way of posting and communicating, as do I. What I
AS> write
AS> suits me better...as what you write suits you better.
JS> Ahh...I see. I understood you to say you wouldn't post to me. Sorry...
AS> Not at all, Jim. I will posts with you anytime. BTW, have a merry
AS> Christmas, and I hope you, your wife, your kids and grandkids have
a
AS> wonderful holiday season.
Great! It has been good so far (getting over the two empty seats at
Thangksgiving, one for Pop and one for my son, was the hard part).
Very same to you, air.
... Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but it hurts when I insert 'em.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:06:03
EID:fea1 2197a8c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 baf8b662
REPLY: 1:3603/210 0dee3c30
On (22 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY wrote to Jim Staal...
RC> with: Gwenny the Pooh
JS> (BTW, hav[ing] been married more times than I does not give
JS> you more experience than I. I was speaking about my having
JS> experience with a _successful_ marriage.)
RC> And you define success by how much of your wife's money you waste?
No.
... Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen. (Rom 15:33)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:06:47
EID:7dfb 2197a8c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 43950dd8
REPLY: 1:207/212 56d43f0e
On (21 Dec 96) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (17 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Curtis Johnson...
JS> Yeah, but being a _man_ a penis is a good indication of gender,
JS> whether you choose to have sex or not.
KD> But gender should 1. be irrelevant to both god and the savior.
Apparently God didn't think so...
... Ask them to list all 54 flavors, then order vanilla.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:07:21
EID:7dfb 2197a8e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8a76d0a8
REPLY: 1:207/212 71ab2574
On (21 Dec 96) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (17 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Curtis Johnson...
JS> Yeah, but being a _man_ a penis is a good indication of gender,
JS> whether you choose to have sex or not.
KD> But gender should be irrelevant to god both in his "original" form and
KD> in the form of the savior, wouldn't it?
No. As Christ had to be fully human as well as fully God, He had to have
a gender.
... The way to a man's heart is through the left ventricle.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:08:23
EID:b170 2197a900
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 10be9382
REPLY: 1:207/212 8a7ad38a
On (21 Dec 96) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to DAVID RICE...
DR> correct: the male is a modification of the female of the
DR> species. During gestation, every fetus starts out female.
DR> If there is enough testosterone (and other) hormones, the
DR> fetus then turns male: if not, it remains female. This may
DR> be a feature of pre-human pathenogenisis. The male form is
DR> an evolutionary appendum to increase genetic variability
DR> through recombination via sexual reproduction: it wasn't
DR> always that way.
JS> If one is inclined to believe in the theory of evolution. I believe
JS> in the 'big bang' myself.
KD> Naturally, you're free to believe as you wish regarding ultimate
KD> origins. However, it is clear from embryology that the female is the
KD> basic model. The default is female. I know this from first hand
KD> experience.
I will take your word for this. It does, however, have nothing to do
with the first person.
... IALWAYSWANTEDTOSEEJUSTHOWMANYCHARACTERSWOULDFITINTOABLUEWAVETAGLINE!!!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:09:03
EID:4e3d 2197a920
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 cee5f65a
REPLY: 1:207/212 d11b0e61
On (21 Dec 96) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Sue Alexander...
SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait a
SA> minute....
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
KD> I don't consider myself to be doing something readily out of simple
KD> obedience.
That is fine, and your business. We were, however, taliking about Jesus
Christ here, not Karen Davis.
... Every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Rom 14:12)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:11:11
EID:f953 2197a960
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 6d418359
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd7cca
On (22 Dec 96) Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Oh, you do, do you? And yet you claim to be married? (BTW, have been
JS> married more times than I does not give you more experience than I.
Gt> What you must FIRST realize is that he is talking about CHRISTIAN
Gt> marriage. Second, I thought you didn't remember my ever saying that
I
Gt> had been married before and therefore felt you were justified in
Gt> calling Wild a wife abuser. Amazing how you have such a selective
Gt> memory.
I didn't say I didn't remember you having been married before.
Gt> And, of course, my experience is with men and yours is with women.
No
Gt> doubt your experience was better. I wonder IF you alledged wife would
Gt> agree with assessment of your relationship.
She is not 'alleged', and yes, she would agree. Call her some time
after 6:00 P.M. Her name is Diane and her number is (616) 532-2455.
JS> I was speaking about my having experience with a _successful_
JS> marriage.)
Gt> Length of time does not necessarily denote success.
Agreed.
GT> My mother was
Gt> married to the child molester for 12 years. I know several older
Gt> women who have been married 30+ years and hated every moment, but the
Gt> idea of divorce was worse than the idea of being married to a bastard.
That is not my problem.
Gt> For all we know, the alledged Wilbur is only with you from the
Gt> dysfunctional idea that divorce is a sin.
Nothing 'dysfunctional' about it. God says it, we believe it. The
'option' of divorce has never entered in however. We just believe in
marriage.
GT> Or maybe she enjoys abuse.
What abuse?
Gt> Or maybe she feels sorry for you.
Nothing to feel sorry about.
GT> Having been a co-dependent wife
Gt> myself, I know that many women will waste their entire lives on
Gt> worthless men.
We have a rich life together. Nothing to 'waste' anything on.
Gt> My one of my best friends (since kindergarten) is like that. For
Gt> twenty years she's been married to the same idiot. He's
Gt> "handicapped"--can't hold a job because of his vicious temper and lack
Gt> of attention. So she has slaved supporting him and their three
Gt> children, because it is god's will for her to endure his anger and
Gt> beatings so that he can learn how to be a good man. If she can only
Gt> have enough faith and love he will become what she needs him to be.
Gt> Sure.
What ever gets her whinny ass through the night.
JS> ... I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor
JS> 10:20)
Gt> That why none us is friends with Christians.
Merely your onw personal twisted opinion.
... A fool and his money are soon...Hey! Where's my wallet?!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 23 Dec 96 21:16:45
EID:07a4 2197aa00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d8c291a5
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bd65bd
On (22 Dec 96) Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
Gt> Heilsa, Jim!
JS> Nah. Since Fred and Herr Doktor both count for zero in my mind and you
JS> for a .5, that makes less than one.
Gt> Your math skills astond me. You couldn't even count how
Gt> many people had agreed with Marty. So, how much does Dan count for,
Gt> or would you have to take off your shoes to figure it out?
Dan? Less than zero.
... Many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. (Matt 24:11)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:15:21
EID:0588 219881e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 4e641f78
REPLY: 1:123/67 32bd5827
On (22 Dec 96) Shelby Sherman wrote to Jim Staal...
SS> 17 Dec 96 18:28, quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg:
JS> ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - Acts 9:5
SS> I'm familiar with this sorid tale. A biblical parody of forced
SS> communism at its best. The essence of this pathetic story is that
SS> you sell your possessions and lay it at the feet of the apostles to
SS> be redistributed to all. If you hold back any of the proceeds, the
SS> holy spirit will smite your ass dead.
SS> What a crock. I'm sure that a lot of smarmy preachers use these
SS> verses to fleece their gullible flock.
Actually, the crock is how you can take my quote above and even begin to
think you have the rest in context. You are one funny individual.
The quote actually comes from the story of Saul's conversion and has
nothing whatsoever to crap you were spouting. Get real once, will ya?
... Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. - John 6:37
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:19:30
EID:d5dd 21988260
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f566951a
REPLY: 1:123/67 32bd5987
On (22 Dec 96) Shelby Sherman wrote to Jim Staal...
SS> 17 Dec 96 18:29, quoting Jim Staal to Martin Goldberg:
JS> You are wrong on both counts. I see evidence of God every single day
JS> and I have given it much thought.
SS> No you don't.
You have no clue about what I see, or what my thoughts are. Just because
SAtan has blinded your eyes to the truth, don't begin to put it on me.
... Be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:20:30
EID:7c26 21988280
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8617ee11
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 5abf16b4
On (22 Dec 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
DC> On (19 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander...
SA> Why did Jesus Christ readily go to the cross? Ahh...wait a
SA> minute....
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
He didn't.
... Be on your guard against all kinds of greed. - Luke 12:15
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:21:22
EID:eca0 219882a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 9cb43237
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7290682f
On (23 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> I like to think it is, but when I attempted to point that out to
JS> certain individuals here some time ago, it was apparent from
JS> their responses that they did not think so.
MG> It was obvious to me that from the way he posts and the nature of the
MG> story, that it was bullshit. This is all that I have to say about it.
Then let's consider the matter finished.
... Some shall depart from the faith. - 1 Timothy 4:1
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:21:56
EID:8725 219882a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 03f14bce
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72906bc1
On (23 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> Why would homosexuality be a sin? Just because it says so
MG> MG>> int he bible? If the answer is "yes", you need to think the
MG> MG>> matter over.
JS> Without the Bible to tell us so, there would be no notion of sin.
MG> Now you're really talking. The bible, written by men, contains what
MG> they considered to be "sinful". Without the bible, we can assign the
MG> designation "sin" to whtever really does harm to us.
That's where our thinking differs. I believe the Bible was written by
God and contains what He believes to be sinful, and thus really does
harm us.
... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being. - Acts 17:28
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:23:30
EID:081f 219882e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2de7aba2
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 729071dc
On (23 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> No evidence. No thought process.
MG> There you have it. Simple belief because some old book told you to
MG> believe is nonsense.
Were it just a matter of 'some old book told me to believe' there would
be no argument here. But the fact that the living Holy Spirit of God
testifies to my inner being daily that what I believe about God and His
Word are true, I stand firm in my beliefs.
JS> You are wrong on both counts. I see evidence of God every single
JS> day and I have given it much thought.
MG> You haven't bothered to tell us about it. Do you have any real hard
MG> evidence other than the emotional arguement that "the universe is a
MG> wonderful place and must have built by a god"?
I have told yo many times, but you do not believe. The mere fact that I
am able to continue in life, to maintain body and soul together bears
evidence of God to me. If not to you, that is your affair.
... Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt. - Col. 4:6
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:27:11
EID:c2cd 21988360
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 710c3ff4
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 729077c9
On (23 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> The resulting pride is bad.
MG> Your answer reflected the dancing that your above answers did. You
MG> did not wnat to give credence to his claim that you were vain, so you
MG> came up with the nonsense about the seven deadlies. The fact is, that
MG> presented each of these alone, you would claim that they are bad.
MG> Just because they were presented to you in the form of the Catholic
MG> Church you shuffled your feet in an effort to escape your vanity.
It wasn't apparent to me that he was accusing me of being vain. Paul
said, 'if I boast, I boast in the Lord'.
... For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. - Philippians 1:21
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:28:31
EID:8831 21988380
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 d21bb476
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 729078cd
On (23 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> So Jess turned the water to wine, axeheads floated, and the
MG> MG>> impossible flood of Noah occured?
MG> MG>> You're hopeless.
JS> And you, my friend are in error and face the possibility of being
JS> hopelessly lost.
MG> So tell me how axeheads float.
Only by an act of God, sir.
... It is more blessed to give than to receive. - Acts 20:35
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: False Christian Scum [1/2]
|Date: 25 Dec 96 14:19:19
EID:91a7 21997260
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c3a1cf85
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org b3167eb1
On (24 Dec 96) Sean McCullough wrote to Jim Staal...
> On (19 Dec 96) Sean McCullough wrote to Sue Armstrong...
> SM> Again, I remind you that if Jim Staal hadn't suggested that Marty
> SM> Leipzig wasn't entitled to his livelihood, none of this would have
> SM> broken out at all.
> Evidence to support this line of crappola? Just doing the atheist
> shuffle, aren't you Sean...
SM> No, Sir.
SM> The messages from Herr Staal to Herr Leipzig, castigating him for
SM> working in Russia, very much exist. He re-posts them from time to
SM> time.
Yessir, I have made these statements alright. They weren't intended,
however, in regards to how or whether or not he makes his living.
Merely where. Even that is no problem. I had the jproblem with him
throwing it the face of myself and everyother redblooded American about
just how great _their_ wretched technology is.
SM> The amalgamation of an ancient, LONG-dead troll aimed at Michael
SM> Hardy, with every other possibly gathered off-color, controversial,
SM> or snide remark I've ever made into HolySmoke for ANY reason, is also
SM> not mine. Sue Armstrong, of her own proper motion alone, decided to
SM> create an aggregate product I never intended from components of
SM> expressions I *did* intentionally express; and then blamed me for what
SM> SHE was so able to create. And then she got p.o.'ed when I dared pay
SM> her in her own coin -- one that SHE chose to traffick in.
SM> I respectfully suggest that you avoid tarring yourself with her
SM> rightful brushes, unless you also have knowingly done this to me. (I
SM> don't know you to ever have so done, btw.)
You are unusually and overly articulate today, sir. :)
SM> In fact, THE main reason I mention this at this juncture IS because
SM> Herr Staal deserves better respect than Sue does. At least he and I
SM> argue from the issues actually presented, rather than apply the most
SM> Machiavellian read between someone's lines that's humanly possible and
SM> THEN insist upon THAT result being maintained.
Any level of respect is appreciated, sir. Thankyou.
... Trespassers will be experimented on!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 25 Dec 96 09:11:09
EID:e23b 21994960
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 0bdc8ef8
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32beeb21
On (23 Dec 96) Don Martin wrote to Styx Allum...
DM> Styx Allum said "Lon Mabon" to Rod Swift,
DM> adding:
SA> The thought that a crazed lunatic from here in my own community
SA> can make news around the globe... sheesh. I'm in Eugene, Oregon.
SA> So's that Lon Mabon critter.
SA> Here's something to ponder... I've seen Lon Mabon, and my first
SA> impression was that he's gay. I really suspect that to be true,
SA> whether factual or not.
DM> That would not surprise me in the least. It is a truism
DM> that the greatest gay bashers are those in greatest denial
DM> about their own homosexual feelings: the intensity of Mabon's
DM> fulminations argues an enormous amount of denial.
I have never seen the guy in person, but have seen him many times
of teevee. I've long held the same suspicion. However, I spoke
of it to somebody who apparently has worked fairly closely with
the man, and he swears that I'm mistaken. The guy claims no
respect for him, and doesn't share his point of view, but swears
there isn't a sign of homosexuality. I will bow to the hypothesis
that we see what we wish to see (in both our cases, as it were).
Which side of the ebonics argument do YOU come down on?
... Raising pet electric eels is gaining a lot of current popularity.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: A Man and a Cat.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:36:35
EID:fdd2 21985c80
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 95ed0f9d
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86613667
On (24 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Knowing any one thing is far more than you do, Apple-liar.
LA> I guess you really mean to be funny eh Dn?
DC> No, Lardhead. I am serious. You are a liar and know
DC> nothing about what you are talking about.
LA> Well I *DID* try to give you an "escape" from the only
Laurie, your quotes do you no good. You have been shown to
lie about even them. Nothing you post is taken seriously
by any other than a dyed-in-the-wool fundy.
... Don't let your mind wander, as it's too liitle to go out on it's own
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Wolff boy takes Wolff out of context again and again!
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:46:55
EID:61a8 21985dc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 7304fd51
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 116fc95c
On (22 Dec 96) Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa...
BW> Ah... Danny boy takes Wolff out of context just one more time. Just
BW> to set the story straight. I was talking to dipshit Martin Goldberg:
No you weren't. You were attempting to send a message to
Dr. Martin Goldberg.
BW> Subject: Billy has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal
s
At least you got the subject right.
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
Read what you wrote, Billy-Bob Wolff-bait. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BW> Clearly I was referring to Martin as shit for brains. But of course
No, it is not clear that you were. Your writing states that you
were writing about the fact that you are a shit for brains. Your
posts confirm that.
BW> at it as dumb as you can. And here I am, Bill Wolff exposing your
BW> foolishness over and over again! Don't you people have any shame?
Don't you know how the language is structured? Can't you diagram
a sentence?
... "I'm an agnostic shit for brains!" - Bill Wolff
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:54:02
EID:fa99 21985ec0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a245f4e6
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32beca02
On (23 Dec 96) Gerry Danen got back to CHRIS GREEN...
CG> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th, and a Good New Year.
GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid of the
GD> word Christmas and what it stands for?
Yeah, after all, it's just a holiday stolen from the pagans. And
it's not even celebrated on the right day of the year.
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:17:57
EID:d8de 2198aa20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 41ad7604
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 25b48bce
On (22 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> JJ> Bonhoeffer's response: Only those who believe are obedient, and
DC> JJ> only those who obey believe.
JJ> DC>Do you have any idea about what you quoted, even an inkling,
JJ> DC>as to what it makes your religion and it's "god" sound like?
JJ> DC>Most likely not, as you placed the quote in the first place.
JJ> Go ahead, Dan, please, enlighten me. Tell me what the above
JJ> says about God.
Nothing, Jesse, as you don't even have a hat rack to even hang
one on. You, however, will obey your "god" or "godling", as
you have to.
Got any evidence that any gods exist? When you provide it,
we can can properly disgust[sic] it. Your ass-kissing of it will
do wonders for kissing your sorry ass of a 'god' goodbye. Star Goat
has decreed that. Got any evidence that Star Goat did not
eat your little god, let alone your godling?
... "I believe in Jeshua bar Casper-the-Holy-Spook!" David Rice
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Fakes Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:33:22
EID:739c 2198ac20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 47d04961
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 86613728
On (24 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> It's obvious you can't see why it took 40 or so years to
DC> provide undeniable evidence that it was a fraud.
LA> Then clearly it should NOT have been rammed down the
LA> throats of Students UNTIL is was positively established as a
The problem with, Lardhead, is that your masters have
rammed something up in the orifice that holds the very
pore that you try to speak out of but you attempt to write
as well.
Get a roll of toilette paper and wipe and flush yourself.
... Don't let your mind wander, as it's too liitle to go out on it's own
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:44:16
EID:c086 2198ad80
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a7f971ee
REPLY: 1:358/1 d179f1bc
On (21 Dec 96) Quentin Fai got back to Judith Bandsma...
QF> ... He shoots! He scores! He decapitates the linesman!
QF> * Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada
So, you have seen the non-violoent game of hockey! I was
concerned when Sue A. disavowed any knowledge of the blood,
err... sport!
... Saul probably never hit the mark except for being a misogynist pervert.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Flat-Earthers.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:48:54
EID:b764 2198ae00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 aa700426
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 866134cb
On (24 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Bullshit, Appleton. You continue to lie like a cheap
DC> throw rug that the cat's shit on.
LA> The following without permission from Martin!
Of course not. You have already taken everyone in the
world's statements out of context. Why stop now, when
you are on a roll of making yourself even more stupid
than you could ever dream of being?
... Don't let your mind wander, as it's too liitle to go out on it's own
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 24 Dec 96 22:02:39
EID:cebf 2198b040
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 0003f37d
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 25b48bd3
On (22 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to All...
JJ> least bit JJ>of credence by HolySmokers.
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
JJ> losers.
Gee, Jesse, don't leave us! Where else will we find a
fundy lawyer to make fun of?
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
Typical. A parting biblical quote to ease your non-conscious conscience.
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
Got any evidence that you have a soul, Jesse?
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 24 Dec 96 22:07:30
EID:db3a 2198b0e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 8be140a7
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 010dbf85
On (23 Dec 96) David Worrell got back to All...
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my
JJ> time with you losers.
DW>
I had to call the cardioligist for aid so I could
continue posting after that message was recieved!
DW> Anybody want to start a betting pool?
Only if you pay my cardioligist's bill and give me
1 googol to one that he doesn't.
My guess-timate: 6.2 weeks, 1 hr, 37 minutes and 4 seconds,
plus or minus 10% on the seconds.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 24 Dec 96 22:16:54
EID:c4d4 2198b200
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 51577155
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32be7df0
On (23 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to All...
SQ> Salue, All!
Naz drov ya, Stephje!
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
JJ> to hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as
SQ> An original thought...
Did he ever have one of those? Evidence, please.
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
SQ> And another original thought.
Yet another claim. Please support that one as well.
SQ> "The fools says in his heart, 'Your question is stupid. I will not
SQ> answer it.'"
See tagline, though I think Jesus Jones may skip it for 6.2
weeks, as I commanded him to do so.
SQ> Farewell, Jesse, but not "Goodbye."
At best, Jon may have provided him with a way out, but only if
Jesse is a coward.
Well, sayonara, Jesse! Hope that Ghinsu you are using is
very sharp!
... "The fools says in his heart, 'Your question is stupid. I will not
answer it.'"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Heat [1/2] [2]
|Date: 24 Dec 96 22:27:56
EID:86fa 2198b360
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 9451ab93
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32bdfc3b
On (21 Dec 96) Andrew Masten got back to Rick Mcfarlane...
RM> So? All that means is that Laurie's lie was transparent. Being a
RM> poor liar is not better than being a good liar.
AM> Thats a poor example. Its obvious from the quote that his
AM> conclusions sre different.
No, Andy, your Saviour of Creationism has shown himself to
be what exactly Rick has stated. That you believe the liar
is your fault for not having bothered to use a single thing
from what education that you may have ever received and have
disregarded every last piece of logic you may heve ever known.
Enjoy your ignorance. As with other fundys, you revel in it.
... "Oh, blather," said Pooh, seeing another new fundy in the 'Smoke.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 24 Dec 96 22:33:56
EID:0e20 2198b420
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4bc087ea
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 25b48bcf
On (22 Dec 96) Jesse Jones got back to Robert Curry...
JJ> failed to answer the question. Would you care to try again?
You won't, Jesse. You hve flown from the Echo. Or, did
you forget that?
... "The fools says in his heart, 'Your question is stupid. I will not
answer it.'"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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