God Damned Fundies!
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:16:41
EID:4648 21989200
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c0513e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc488
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about NEVER BE GODLY:
AS> But reincarnation doesn't work unless you can remember previous
AS> lessons....or lives, in this case.
LB> Why? I don't recall learning how to walk or talk, or how to control
my
LB> bladder ...yet the lesson stays with me.
AS> Good point.
:) thank you.
As far as I have heard, that's how the idea of reincarnation works...between
lives, you know what you've learned, what you still need to learn, minus
the
emotionality and vagaries of physical existance that lead us to be blind
to
ourselves.
You choose your lessons, set your path. Failure to learn a lesson means
you
will continue, through life after life after life until you get it right.
Then onto the next lesson.
I would think, in such a context, remaining aware of the circumstances of
all the other lessons would be distracting rather than helpful, rather like
daydreaming about the novel being read in Lit. class during a math exam...
thinking about it is not, in itself a BAD thing, simply inappropriate at
that
moment, since it keeps you from devoting yourself to the task at hand.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... A lost ounce of gold may be found, a lost moment of time never.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:22:30
EID:904d 219892c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c0513f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc489
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about Warring Christanic Factions:
AS> I wonder how many people who used to castigate Mike will now all of
AS> the sudden go on how reasonable and nice he is. This should be very
AS> interesting.
AS> I think I'll become a Wiccan high priest. It's one way to win
AS> friends and influence people around here...
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
AS> Odd. You're the only one who seems to have drawn that conclusion,
AS> including Mike himself.
Odd. As of the moment you wrote the above, you hadn't spoken with Michael
at all on the matter, one way or another. God tell you what his take on
it was?
Oh, and I've already gotten one comment suggesting it was a bit of underkill
to call it subtle. Your barometer for knowing what everyone thinks doesn't
seem to work so well, Al.
Now, explain to me this....would it be accurate to conclude from this that,
when you point to someone being in some sort of agreement with you - whether
it be a person here, or a literary reference - that to you, SILENCE on the
matter indicates agreement with whatever you are seeking support for?
LB> Guess, THAT sort of statement is as standard as "why are you so
LB> bitter".
AS> Not at all. I'm overjoyed that Marilyn, for instance, is speaking to
AS> him again.
Cool. Doubt she had your joy in mind at all. What does that comment have
to do
with the statement of mine directly preceeding it?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ I've just finished my brute force solution to subtlety.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Lupus
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:30:15
EID:0c44 219893c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05140
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 728455ba
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Martin were killing time yakking about Lupus:
LB> Please tell your friend to contact the Lupus Foundation, or her
LB> doctor to see about support groups that will offer her REAL
LB> information, and an ear when she needs to voice her
LB> frustrations.
MG> I did my dissertation in the field of autoimmune disease. Lupus is
Ah, where were you ten years ago when some sparky happy person told me
"Don't worry...nowadays, living 5 years after diagnosis is possible for
almost
50%!!" Not what you want to hear 6 months after getting married and still
watching your kids get used to the new guy.
MG> something that can kill, but can also remit for along periods of time.
MG> As long as the anti nuclear antibody remains constant and the pattern
MG> does not change, things can remain fairly status quo.
*nod* Exactly. When it's bad it's REAL bad...but having those around you
already mentally burying you doesn't make it real easy to fight it. Stress
doesn't CAUSE lupus, but it can worsen the symptoms, and lupus patients
need
all their resources to fight the disease. Finding for one's place in daily
life shouldn't be what one has to do with one's own family.
MG> If she wants to remain barefoot and pregnant, Lupus almost always
MG> remits during pregnancy, but you gotta be pretty desperate to take
MG> that route.
hehe...I can attest to the salutary effects of pregnancy on the symptoms,
however I found out the hard way that its not always so kind to the child.
Babies of lupus patients tend to be low birth weight...stupid immune system
tries to fight the KID too. My last was spared, at large expense, from
the
long term effects by being monitored and delivered early, as soon as she
was
developmentally ready for it. She gained weight faster after birth than
she
would have had she remained in the womb for the full 9 months.
Now....what positive effects do being barefoot have on lupus? ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Jesus is in my heart and owes me three months back rent.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:42:25
EID:908a 21989540
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05141
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32bec773
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Don were killing time yakking about Warring christanic factio:
LB> LOL! Were I a kept woman, I would INSIST on lots more baubles than I
LB> currently have. (G)
DM> Which goes far to explain why so many men succomb to
DM> matrimony, the cheapskates!
Now, ain't that the truth! (I should be nice until i see what's under the
tree for me..)
LB> You can thank Katherine, Judith and a few others for insisting on
LB> gossiping in IRC about the latest batch of wierdos - had to come see
LB> for myself. ;)
DM> Check out my personal pet, Nate Cookson. I am thinking
DM> of entering him as "Best of Breed."
hehe...I hear there's a church in Texas looking to buy some pedigreed mutts
on the cheap. If you sell him to them, would that be a "good thing"?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Flowers: A gift bought by a friend who ate the chocolate.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:47:26
EID:1b1a 219895e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05142
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32bdf8ce
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Doug were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
LB> make that neato rather than neto and 6667 will work.
DL> It was a typo. It works now.
:) figured as much.
DL> Well, I just upgraded to Mirc v4.6 and it works fine. The only
DL> problem now seems to be that everytime I go into the channel....now
a
DL> soul there.
when are you going in? anytime from about 8:30 pm eastern should get you
someone in there. It's #holysmoke.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Now switching all channels to 700 Club.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:56:54
EID:b19d 21989700
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05143
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32be07bd
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
DAVID and Steve were killing time yakking about 'Atheists who do no good:
SQ> Jovis dies December 19 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
DR> [The following is smilie-captioned for the humor-impared]
DR> MISTER Quarrella, you are hereby ORDERED to cease and
DR> desist with doing any and all Good Things immediately!
SQ> I am -so- ashamed!
Feeling shame is also reserved for the Christians. Knock it off!
;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Aural sex gives me an earie feeling.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ask and ye shall rece
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:12:53
EID:a4c1 21989980
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05144
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc466
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Judith and Al were killing time yakking about ask and ye shall rece:
JB> Excuse me? That's like saying being face to face doesn't lend itself
JB> to 'SERIOUS' discussion. You just don't have a chance there to go back
JB> and try to edit out all your own internal inconsistencies.
AS> Yep. There's that. One can make a better case if one proofreads and
AS> goes back and tries to iron out inconsistencies.
Commonly referred to as "spin doctoring".
If your case was as strong as you insist it is, why are there so many
inconsistancies to try to iron out?
JB> Just because you don't think well on your feet doesn't mean that
JB> others can't.
AS> As you will. Although I notice that Mike also seemed to think this
AS> was a better forum for such.
heheh...what is this obsession you have with tossing names about to back
up
what you say?
1. Michael acknowledged that it is a better forum for YOU to work within.
Judith could as easily suggest that he was, in his own words, backing up
her view. IRC works quite well for the sharing of ideas...it only becomes
difficult to those whose agenda is to be RIGHT, rather than to engage in
give and take.
2. Who do you think it impresses when you always toss off one of our names
as being in agreement with you? The person to whom you are speaking? In
most
cases, no, as that person has either already read the same comment you have,
or has spoken on the matter to the person in question. And in any case,
none
here set their opinions according to who agrees with them. It is also
unimpressive to the person BEING named - a matter that has often come under
discussion between those of us so 'chosen'.
It only impresses you, al. why do you continue to do it?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Al's Vet & Taxidermy: Either way, you get your dog back.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:22:35
EID:8970 21989ac0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32c05145
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bdc46a
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
ROBERT and Al were killing time yakking about Bacteria and Evolution.:
AS> To say that God allows natural law to shape us does not say
AS> He didn't necessarily interfere at certain times on a more
AS> individual level. If I devise a schedule for my children to
AS> do things, that doesn't mean I can't break that schedule
AS> myself when I feel the need warrants it, for instance.
RC>
RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
RC> miraculous intervention.
RC>
RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
AS> The best, I think.
AS> Most of the miracles which are at the heart of my religion, concern
AS> Death and Resurrection. They are not exceptions (however rarely they
AS> occur) nor irrelavancies. It is precisely on such great subjects that
AS> the whole story of mankind turns. (Which may explain why a
AS> dying/reborn god is a almost-universal belief, as Campbell showed so
AS> much in A HERO OF A THOUSAND FACES.) The whole story hinges on Death
AS> and Resurrection. It's a long story, with a complicated plot...yet
AS> hints are given us throughout history (in the form of those Corn-King
AS> myths) until it finds its culmination in someone dying and being
AS> reborn NOT in a mythical Golden Age, a historical never-never land,
AS> but in a decade which can roughly be dated and whose followers were
AS> definitely active as little to twenty to thirty years later. And the
AS> subject of Death and Resurrection necessarily involves us all, the
AS> abused and the abuser, the poor and the rich, the intelligent and the
AS> mentally challenged. For we all must face death.
How does that even remotely address what Robert asked?
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Die Jesu Domine, Domine Es Requium." (WHACK!). Repeat as necessary.
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1
SEEN-BY: 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600
SEEN-BY: 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Richard Smith
|To: All
|Sub: North Pole Downsizing
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:37:57
EID:6bb4 219854a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f2
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
RE: North Pole Downsizing
North Pole Downsizing.
The recent announcement that Donner and Blitzen have elected
to take the early reindeer retirement package has triggered a
good deal of concern about whether they will be replaced, and
about other restructuring decisions at the North Pole.
Streamlining was appropriate in view of the reality that the
North Pole no longer dominates the season's gift distribution
business. Home shopping channels and mail order catalogues
have diminished Santa's market share and the North Pole Board
could not sit idly by and permit further erosion of the
profit picture.
The reindeer downsizing was made possible through the
purchase of a late model Japanese sled for the CEO's annual
trip. Improved productivity from Dasher and Dancer, who
summered at the MIT Diemer Business School, is anticipated
and should take up the slack with no discernible loss of
service. Reduction in reindeer will also lessen airborne
environmental emissions for which the North Pole has been
cited and received unfavorable press.
I am pleased to inform you and yours that Rudolph's role will
not be disturbed. Tradition still counts for something at
the North Pole. Management denies, in the strongest possible
language, the earlier leak that Rudolph's nose got that way
not from the cold, but from substance abuse. Calling Rudolph
"a lush who was into the sauce and never did pull his share
of the load" was an unfortunate comment, made by one of
Santa's helpers and taken out of context at a time of year
when he is known to be under executive stress.
Effective immediately, the following economy measures are to
take place in the "Twelve Days of Christmas" subsidiary:
- The partridge will be retained, but the pear tree never
turned out to be the cash crop forecasted. It will be
replaced by a plastic hanging plant, providing
considerable savings in maintenance.
- The two turtle doves represent a redundancy that is simply
not cost effective. In addition, their romance during
working hours could not be condoned. The positions are
therefore eliminated.
- The three French hens will remain intact. After all,
everyone loves the French.
- The four calling birds were replaced by an automated voice
mail system, with a call waiting option. An analysis is
underway to determine who the birds have been calling, how
often and how long they talked.
- The five golden rings have been put on hold by the Board
of Directors. Maintaining a portfolio based on one
commodity could have negative implications for
institutional investors. Diversification into other
precious metals as well as a mix of T-Bills and high
technology stocks appear to be in order.
- The six geese-a-laying constitutes a luxury which can no
longer be afforded. It has long been felt that the
production rate of one egg per goose per day is an example
of declining productivity. Three geese will be let go, and
an upgrading in the goose selection procedure will assure
management that from now on every goose it gets will be a
good one.
- The seven swans-a-swimming was obviously a number chosen
in better times. The function is primarily decorative;
therefore, five mechanical swans are on order to replace
the seven live swans. This will provide a tighter swim
circle, thus saving space...consistant with our new,
smaller headquarters building and modular furniture
concept. Current swans will be temporarily retrained with
new strokes to enhance performance prior to their out
placement.
- The eight maids-a-milking concept, as you're aware, has
been under heavy scrutiny by the EEOC. A male/female
balance in the workforce is being sought. The more vocal
maids consider this a dead-end job with no upward
mobility. Automation of the process may permit maids
a-mending or a-mentoring options.
- Nine ladies dancing has always been an odd number. This
function will be phased out immediately as these
individuals have grown older and can no longer do the
steps. Early voluntary separation incentives and/or
special separation benefit exit bonuses will be offered
that will greatly reduce the cost of paying full
retirement to these individuals.
- Ten Lords-a-leaping is overkill. The high cost of Lords
plus the expense of international air travel prompted the
Compensation Committee to suggest replacing this group
with ten out-of-work congressmen. While leaping ability
may be somewhat sacrificed, the savings are significant
because we expect an oversupply of unemployed congressmen
this year.
- Eleven pipers piping and,
- Twelve drummers drumming is a simple case of the band
getting too big. Outsourcing and privatization with a
string quartet, a cutback on new music and no uniforms
will produce enormous savings which should drop us right
down to the bottom line.
We can expect a substantial reduction in assorted people,
fowl, animals, HQ North Pole size, office space, and other
expenses. Though incomplete, initial studies also indicate
that stretching deliveries over twelve days has been
inefficient. Plans for one day drop shipments will greater
improve customer service levels.
Regarding the lawsuit filed by the attorney's association
seeking North Pole expansion to include the Pole's legal
office, "thirteen lawyers-a-suing" action is still pending.
Today's global challenges require the North Pole to continue
to look for better, more competitive steps. Future
restructuring is not beyond consideration since deeper cuts
may be necessary to stay competitive. (Inside trading
information on downsizing the seven dwarfs in Disney's Snow
White Division has again given us the edge we needed)
Finally, our new Manpower and Quality office will be
presenting our North Pole Strategic Plan next year (only a
few days away!) as we continue to consolidate, refine,
streamline, outsource, privatize, and build the Most
Efficient and Effective Organization (MEO) possible. New
initiatives are underway to review and reengineer every North
Pole activity...stay tuned for updates!
-- Himself
---
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: The X (mas) Files
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:47:13
EID:1e4d 219855e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f4
GID GIGO+ sn 1 at gigo vsn 0.99.960714
by Frank Cammuso and Hart Seely
We're too late! It's already been here.
Mulder, I hope you know what you're doing.
Look, Scully, just like the other homes: Douglas fir,
truncated, mounted, transformed into a shrine; halls decked
with boughs of holly; stockings hung by the chimney, with
care.
You really think someone's been here?
Someone, or something.
Mulder, over here-it's a fruitcake.
Don't touch it! Those things can be lethal.
It's O.K. There's a note attached: "Gonna find out who's
naughty and nice."
It's judging them, Scully. It's making a list.
Who? What are you talking about?
Ancient mythology tells of an obese humanoid entity who
could travel at great speed in a craft powered by antlered
servants. Once each year, near the winter solstice, this
creature is said to descend from the heavens to reward its
followers and punish disbelievers with jagged chunks of
antracite.
But that's legend, Mulder-a story told by parents to
frighten children. Surely you don't believe it?
Something was here tonight, Scully. Check out the bite
marks on this gingerbread man. Whatever tore through this
plate of cookies was massive-and in a hurry.
It left crumbs everywhere. And look, Mulder, this milk
glass has been completely drained.
It gorged itself, Scully. It fed without remorse.
But why would they leave it milk and cookies?
Appeasement. Tonight is the Eve, and nothing can stop its
wilding.
But if this thing does exist, how did it get in? The
doors and windows were locked. There's no sign of forced
entry.
Unless I miss my guess, it came through the fireplace.
Wait a minute, Mulder. If you're saying some huge
creature landed on the roof and came down this chimney,
you're crazy. The flue is barely six inches wide. Nothing
could get down there.
But what if it could alter its shape, move in all
directions at once?
You mean, like a bowl full of jelly?
Exactly. Scully, I've never told anyone this, but when I
was a child my home was visited. I saw the creature. It had
long white shanks of fur surrounding its ruddy, misshapen
head. Its bloated torso was red and white. I'll never
forget the horror. I turned away, and when I looked back it
had somehow taken on the facial features of my father.
Impossible.
I know what I saw. And that night it read my mind. It
brought me a Mr. Potato Head, Scully. It knew that I wanted
a Mr. Potato Head!
I'm sorry, Mulder, but you're asking me to disregard the
laws of physics. You want me to believe in some supernatural
being who soars across the skies and brings gifts to good
little girls and boys. Listen to what you're saying. Do you
understand the repercussions? If this gets out, they'll close
the X-files.
Scully, listen to me: It know when you're sleeping. It
knows when you're awake.
But we have no proof.
Last year, on this exact date, SETI radio telescopes
detected bogeys in the airspace over twenty-seven states.
The White House ordered a Condition Red.
But that was a meteor shower.
Officially. Two days ago, eight prized Scandinavian
reindeer vanished from the National Zoo, in Washington, D.C.
Nobody-not even the zookeeper-was told about it. The
government doesn't want people to know about Project Kringle.
They fear that if this thing is proved to exist the public
will stop spending half its annual income in a holiday
shopping frenzy. Retail markets will collapse. Scully, they
cannot let the world believe this creature lives. There's
too much at stake. They'll do whatever it takes to insure
another silent night.
Mulder, I-
Sh-h-h. Do you hear what I hear?
On the roof. It sounds like...a clatter.
The truth is up there. Let's see what's the matter.
--
________________________________________________________
Rich Petersen rich@netco.com
Manager, Systems Integration 612.204.3100
NetCo Communications Corp http://www.wam.net
333 N Washington Ave, Suite 102 (fax)612.204.3101
Minneapolis, MN 55401, USA (toll free)800.611.9006
________________________________________________________
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:12:19
EID:5e96 21986980
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f5
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd4
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to Martin Goldberg <:(
CG> As to arguing from a particular side of the fence; sorry I
CG> don't have one, in this echo, if you want to tackle sides of
CG> a fence then I suggest a Debate echo - but frankly I find
This IS a debate echo, Chris.
CG> most arguements boring, largely because most protagionists
CG> spend more time argueing about the spelling, punctuation and
CG> grammar than about the ideas supposedly being debated.
CG> I am a NON-DEIST, which means that I have NO belief in the
CG> existence of a 'God' or 'gods'.
CG> {Incidentally, those people claiming to be atheists, are
CG> claiming, by their definition of themselves, not to believe
CG> in a single God, but must believe in multiple gods. People
Why must they?
CG> who have no belief in any form of God or gods are
CG> non-deists.}
And you claim to be English? Atheist breaks down to a-
(without) -theis- (roughly . . . but meaning Deity) -ist (one
who is). I've fudge the breakup a bit, but by definition an
Atheist is one without beliefs in a Deity. Check Websters.
BTW, there are others here who are neither Atheists nor
Xtians. FYI.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: ALL
|Sub: Chris Green Text
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:17:44
EID:fa91 21986a20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c01a7f7
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd6
};> Chris Green wrote in a message to All <:(
CG> Greetings.
Hiya, Chris.
CG> Let us all understand one thing, we all sit at our terminals
CG> and we receive text, via whatever software we happen to use.
So?
CG> The text is the only thing that we can see; thus, the only
CG> aspect of a person's input, that has relavence is what is on
CG> the screen.
Again, so?
CG> I don't care how qualified you think you are or how many
CG> things you have done in your life, it has no relavence if
CG> what you are writing is a pile of bovine excreta - write
CG> bullshit, and that is precisely what you will receive in
CG> return.
As to posting being bullshit, if your writing leads me in that
direction, then that is your fault and not mine. The only way
I have of reading you is by means of your typing.
I've been paying attention.
CG> Being English, I expect people to read my messages before
CG> they start to answer them.
Same as we do. So?
CG> Often I ask rhetorical questions - these do not require
CG> answering.
Then don't ask them here . . . otherwise, you will get
answers. It's THAT kind of place.
CG> Other times I put forward a series of of questions, which I
CG> then answer as part of a series of ideas that I have been
CG> thinking about.
So you ask your own `of of' questions just so you can answer
them yourself. Isn't that a bit like wanking?
CG> Often I put forward suggestions, which have come from my own
CG> brain, by the use of original thought and cogitation - I am
CG> sorry if this is beyond your capabilities or comprehension
CG> that someone is able to do this.
Sorry, Tory . . . this is begging the question.
CG> I argue from a basis of 'cause and effect' and expect other
CG> people to be able to do likewise.
We may or we may not. Nothing you can do will change it.
CG> Equally I expect people to be able to argue their way
CG> through a subject and to be able to think about possible
CG> conclusions arising from the discussion.
As do we. Are you going to start first?
CG> From what I have seen so far, only the voluble Mr McCullough
CG> has some speck of originality to him.
And your point is?
CG> Next, I do not find it necessary, in the main, to read the
CG> works of others, to come to conclusions, or to have ideas.
That's in keeping with what we've read of you so far.
CG> I prefer to work solely from 'Source Data' and thus form my
CG> own conclusions and provide my own summaries.
Fine. Your point?
CG> Ego: I know who I am and what I am, and I have no illusions
CG> about myself. Likewise, I see no reason in false-modesty, I
CG> am highly intelligent, very flexible, successful in whatever
CG> I do.
Shouldn't that have been `Ergo?' One would expect a
self-important person with an IQ (Irritation Quotient) of 174
to know the difference. Or was that a Freudian slip?
And your point in all of this, other than to have us be
impressed by you?
CG> If this is preceived as 'Big-Headed' that's OK, just
CG> remember that how you phrase your remarks tells me more
CG> about the writer, than the person they write about.
No, it doesn't. You yourself said:
"The text is the only thing that we can see; thus, the only
aspect of a person's input, that has relavence is what is
on the screen."
Now you may think you know us from what we write, but so far
we've seen some bad guesses on your part, and some real
boners.
CG> IQ: 174, tested by MENSA, an organisation I do not belong
CG> to, since I found that it was full of 'social
CG> dysfunctionals'.
Yawn. Me too. Your point?
Have I ever told you my theory of dick size, Chris? There
are men who HAVE big dicks, and then there are men who SAY
they have big dicks.
CG> Brief personal history:
I feel a nap attack sneaking up on me . . .
CG> Time-served Master Stonemason;
I once had a dog named Brownie.
CG> then served 12 years in the British Army;
I like blueberry syrup on my pancakes.
CG> disabled during service as a result of an explosion;
I have a cowlick.
CG> following service I have owned and run 3
CG> businesses in the stone and building trades;
I run one household and am, in turn, run ragged by two
children and a wife.
CG> currently run a charity,
I just put a load of clothes in the dryer.
CG> and am a councellor for people with MPD and similar
CG> psychotic illnesses, also run a self-help group for people
CG> who have clinical depression.
Gee, then one would assume that you had the ability to talk
TO people, and not down at them. Ah, but we're not paying
you, are we?
CG> In between this I am a Fellow
CG> of the Institute of Administrative and Supervisory
CG> Management;
I used to pick my nose when I was a child, but I stopped.
CG> Fellow Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators;
I still think Barbara Eden is a sexpot.
CG> Honours Degree in Science and Technology (Open University);
I learned 10-Key from Lincoln Training Center. I have yet to
use it in any employed position too. Maybe I'll go back to
school.
CG> currently working on my Master's Thesis:
I'm about ready to make lunch. I think we'll have some
pickle loaf sandwiches. Thanks to your Earl, btw, for that
lovely invention.
CG> 'Migratory Populations of Liverpool'.
Mostly out?
CG> Have published 3
CG> volumes of poetry: 'Poems in my Knapsack'; 'Soldier's
CG> Diary'; 'Tank'.
TANK? ROFLMGDAO . . . hey everyone, it's a TLP plant!
I've published a bit too. And I firmly believe that, when
taking a dump, it's not over until you finish the paperwork.
CG> I paint and sell my pictures; sculpt in stone; garden.
I annoy people, act as a heavy weight to keep furniture from
blowing away, and have been known to sleep sitting up.
CG> Disablement caused by an explosion of petrol jerricans while
CG> trying to unload a burning lorry.
Man, that Appletoon is touchy, isn't he? She? Whatever . . .
CG> Spinal damage from L1
CG> down, and from C3 up; nerve damage resulting in no feeling
CG> in arms and legs; 80% deaf; loss of senses of taste and
CG> smell; trigeminal and migrainous neuralgia; myaclonic jerks;
CG> some speech difficulty; chronic pain in joints as now have
CG> osteo-arthritis; short-term memory problems with associated
CG> conceptual difficulties; clinical depression. Occasionally
CG> use a wheelchair.
For what? BTW, did you want violin music with that?
CG> Thus you can see that I have no time for whimps, whiners, or
CG> other ineffectual people.
And again, your point is . . . ?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:59:28
EID:99ab 21987760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036450
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7291aae4
};> Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to Marty Leipzig <:(
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving God?
ML> ... In memorium. Dr. Carl Sagan, 1934-1996. "He touched
MG> But he didn't touch Billy Wolff.
That's true . . . Bill Wolff was apparently already `touched.'
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:02:04
EID:772c 21987840
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036451
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72924afd
};> Martin Goldberg wrote in a message to Steve Quarrella <:(
SQ> ROFL! I'm -way- overdue to rent that one again. I just about
SQ> fell out of my chair when they started talking about the
SQ> "Chocolate Monk."
MG> Which is?
Sammy Davis Jr.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:26:32
EID:9297 21987b40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c036452
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5C438D
};> Michael Hardy wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
RS> Nor does Al remember being weaned . . . yet I bet he doesn't
RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
MH> Yeah, I'm sure he has a much better cover story than that
MH> ... ;-)
Groper imitations?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: archived holysmoke
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:02
EID:57cb 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 99008607
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 05:05pm, MICHAEL HARDY wrote to DAVID RICE:
DR>> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
DR>> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
DR>> in each.
MH> fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
Sounds like a marital art.
... Just "stringing" you along. . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1447
* Silver Xpress V4.00
/
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: darkness
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:03
EID:974f 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900867e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 09:52am, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to BRETT JOHNSON:
GT> before now. And what DID happen to St. "what does it matter if he
GT> tarries until I return" John.
Pretty amusing the attempts to reconcile that. First,
there is the assumption that he was the "beloved disciple" of
GJohn. ("See, Jesus liked me best!")
Anyhow, he supposedly dug his grave and had people throw
dirt over him. However, to reconcile this with GJohn's promise of
the return, the claim was made that you could see the dirt moving
up and down at Epheseus with his breathing.
CURTIS JOHNSON
... Guten Tag!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1447
* Silver Xpress V4.00
X
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Boring moron
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:04
EID:4ac6 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 990086f5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
From your "messages" in my last packet:
in your stupid dreams and also with those that I call morons.
Look oh stupid one. You're the moron with the problem, not I! You
repeatedly ask you and other morons to present prove for your
are a dumb stupid liar and a moron to boot.
are untrainable, stupid and lifelong morons, which an intelligent
you morons can someday evolve enough to crawl out of that hole you
Ah... only in your dreams, moron!
You're the one with the short memory moron. And how about proving
moron with the short memory!
damn moron you turned out to be. How sad!
the stupidest moron I know too.
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
I'm innocent because I am innocent you little moron! You continue
you morons are just stupid fools who clearly fail to even I did
already answer your slanderous question, Mr. Moron Fredric.
are just a stupid moron who fails to get anything straight. How
you little moron!
You're the morons who needs help. My intellectual superiors like
Really? certified by who? You morons perhaps? Yes that means a lot,
crap that ain't there. Like most moron do.
acting like a true moron like you do.
like to destroy things. Come on Fredric the moron... can't you
Fredric
Rice the moron.
response from those stupid brainwashed morons.
a damn moron like you.
Ah... the best of Marty the moron. How cute!
You also comprehend like a moron 5 year old too. How cute!
Sorry my poor moron,
him in the ass. Boy you are really stupid, aren't you the moron?
morons who claims that God is dead. My conversation has nothing to
you damn moron!
damn moron that he is. How cute!
nothing but a fucked up moron.
you damn stupid moron! I swear you have no common sense at all. I
Jastrow, you damn moron. You fail to understand this, yes I have
You like always, prove what a total moron you
stupid moron you have shown all of us you are.
Marty, the complete moron.
But poor damn morons like you just can't
yet figure it all out. You morons are really sad.
I explain it so simple that even a moron like you should
moron! It only shows how you damn stupid morons can't comprehend
what you read. It's just that simple, moron!
And only a moron such like yourself would ever
make you stupid morons to use your brains for once and
you morons are just to damn stupid to take part in intelligent
fucking morons like yourself, dumb shit!
like always, you morons never get even close to the truth. You poor
damn bad you morons are just to damn stupid to see the truth, ain't
it shit head! I really getting tired of you morons playing your
repeatably shown you people to be total morons over and over again.
over again to remove all doubt, moron!
And both of you are acting like total morons.
I swear I've never seen such a bunch of
nonthinking morons in my life.
Btw, Bill Wolff was telling you morons that he's an
You have the honor of being the occasion for the coining of
a new portmanteau word:
Wolff, you are a boron.
... Dumb enough to hunt rabbit for food with dum-dums.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:05
EID:422c 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900876c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
RV>> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
RV>> ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ>> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
MH> You can be Comma King if you like. I warn you, though, it's a heavy
MH> burden. :-)
No, thanks. As a lazy man, I prefer being Coma King.
... Pot nut. You're trusts, djinn; spill chukkas!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: al's bluster
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:06
EID:c01d 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 990087e3
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> He quoted very extensively from you, the original.
RC>
AS>> Curtis. I WROTE the original. And you may have noticed a tendency
AS>> of me to make LOOONG posts. I know what I wrote and what was
AS>> quoted. Now, you may believe what you want...but a simple question
AS>> to Curry would have answered whether he quoted my every word.
RC>
RC> Is it just that I'm paying more attention to Al's bluster lately, or
RC> has there been an actual increase in the number of strawmen he creates?
RC> Obviously, you did not claim I quoted his "every word."
Yep. One reason I finally became fed up.
AS>> He didn't.
RC>
RC> Though I could, what would be the point? Your remark that I quoted
RC> extensively is correct, btw.
RC>
RC> If you would like to see the junk email Al sent, just let me know.
Sure. Should I send you my e-mail address by netmail?
Since he kept handing me the patented "There are secret
messages that would clear me if you only knew" line, I don't see
any problem.
I'm also curious to see what I spared myself by not giving
him my e-mail address.
CJ>> I don't think I've had any misconceptions about you.
RC>
RC> But I certainly have:
RC>
RC>
RC> I once thought that Al could be trusted to be reasonable and also
RC> to refrain from making up strawman positions for those people
RC> with whom he has disagreements.
RC>
RC> My assumptions on that matter were clearly incorrect.
RC>
RC> The evidence has become crystal clear over the last month or two,
RC> as you have no doubt noticed yourself.
Yep.
As you probably already noticed, I just suffered from an OD
of Al, and snapped.
I think it's no coincidence that he harps on the "proof by
martyrdom" so much in his apologetics.
... Space is nothing but elbow room.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 25 Dec 96 00:12:07
EID:6fa2 21990180
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9900885a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 22 Dec 96 10:09am, STEVE HAYES wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
JB>> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
SH>
SH>> Answer the question, fascist.
JB>> 1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh well, I must
be
JB>> doing something right. There's another one here who calls me a
JB>> LIBERAL.
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
... So many messages, so few megs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1448
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: CHRISTIANS V GUNS
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:21:00
EID:d95d 21984aa0
-=> Quoting John Musselwhite to Marty Leipzig <=-
JM> In some ways I'd like to see a return of the old days when
JM> everyone over the age of 16 carried a gun and knew how to use
JM> it. Not only would it weed the country of low-life who have no
JM> respect for others, but it would make for a very polite
JM> society.
HEY! That was -MY- idea.
Actually, I would make it a legal requirement that all adults carry
a sidearm and be required to use it whenever a criminal act was
observed.
I would further extend that to say that any criminal would be deprived
of his weapon and would be fair game thereafter.
... Cthulhu in '96. Why vote for the LESSER evil?
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: DANNY BOY TAKES WOLFF
|Date: 24 Dec 96 09:25:00
EID:4f7c 21984b20
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to Dan Ceppa <=-
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for brains!
BW> Clearly I was referring to Martin as shit for brains. But of course
BW> you people don't want to look at this intelligently, but rather look
BW> at it as dumb as you can. And here I am, Bill Wolff exposing your
BW> foolishness over and over again! Don't you people have any shame?
Clearly you were referring to yourself above. Otherwise you
would have said "I'm an agnostic, shit for brains!"
Recent high school student, are you?
... Me.. a skeptic? I trust you have evidence.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 23 Dec 96 17:13:00
EID:7895 219789a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> The author is informed at one point that this is his 676th life (or
RH> close to that number, I don't have the book before me).
AS> I wonder what determines when you start a first life...
I don't think I've ever seen that mentioned. Creation, I suppose...
AS> Ever read "The Sign" by Lord Dunsany? Where a guy, very conceited,
Surprisingly enough, yes, I have.
AS> crawled the wall and started making the sign. The younger man stayed
AS> there for a hour or two, and the snail left a trail that executed the
AS> sign as clear as could be.
You left out the point, which was that the man made a habit of killing
snails, to release their souls for the next incarnation.
RH> 20 million. Or God destroying EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH, with
RH> a few exceptions. Now THERE'S real depravity IMHO.
AS> If that were the end, it might be. But I don't think it is.
Even worse, all those killed get to fry forever. An even greater
depravity IMHO.
... Sorry, the Dog ate my Blue Wave packet.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:16:00
EID:043b 21979200
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> You keep asserting that they COULD be different. Why?
AS> Because if there are no higher laws, no metalaws, no supernature,
AS> there is
AS> nothing to constrain them. You can look at that idea...that they
AS> could not
AS> be different...in two different ways. That this is the only logically
AS> self-consistent universe possible...which seems contradicted by what
AS> we can devise in model universes....or that we happen to have these
AS> constants
AS> by total chance. Interesting chances.
Or, more correctly, that the constants describe the fundamental nature
of matter/energy and thus can have NO other values.
AS> How is that different from someone in the Dark Ages saying, "I don't
AS> see how the sun could NOT rise in the morning, and even if it could
do
AS> differently, it doesn't, so it is a moot point"? I think the
AS> question is still worth asking.
But you keep coming up with the wrong ANSWER! God is not an answer.
He is a cop-out. For example the everything has a cause argument.
You then say Well, God is the First Cause and He is an exception
to the rule. He has no cause. Cop-out.
AS> Would you rather I believe the religious stuff without a logical
AS> starting point?
Yes. Then you wouldn't keep pestering us with nonsense.
RH> no matter how abrasive I may seem at times.
AS> I know that, Roger. You're one of the better people here. Take care.
And you, as well, no matter what everyone else says here!
... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 23 Dec 96 18:44:00
EID:e384 21979580
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Al Schroeder <=-
JB> and which is not completely "subjective." Don't ask God to do what
He
JB> either cannot, or has not ever been observed doing. Gross physical
JB> "Miracles" don't happen; but "Providence" may 'happen all the time.'
JB> (You're merely "empiricizing Providence" with this "test for God.")
JB> (By the way, DON'T _miss_ your appointment....) (*grin*)
JB> Comments?
Ok, I'll play. "God, let me win the Colorado lottery on the first
drawing in February, 1997". Odds, 1 in about 6,000,000. And I -will-
buy a ticket for that drawing.
Put in a good word for me, John, and I'll cut you in.
... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:25:00
EID:e8a7 21979b20
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> But that's the point.
AS> If He faked it, He knows He didn't fulfill the prophecies. So God
AS> wouldn't find favor in it.
AS> IF He was NOT faking it, but hoping that God would rescue Him...why
AS> didn't
AS> He die? It's not like Roman soldiery didn'thave lots of experience
AS> seeing whether a man was dead or not...and making sure of same.
AS> Probably. He would have thought it more likely to have his legs
AS> broken, as happened to the two thieves.
Oh, no. The prophecy said his bones would not be broken. He HAD to
"die" before that could happen.
AS> Ok. Let's say He was expecting God to come rescue Him. He goes into
a
AS> deathlike coma. The others put on graveclothes on Him, and put Him in
AS> a sealed tomb.
Not sealed. They expected to come prepare his body after the Sabbath.
AS> He wakes up. Comes out of His coma. He is in a sealed tomb, so
AS> probably the air is getting rank, filled without all the fragrances
AS> with which they
AS> put on his body (from the hundred pounds of stuff, it probably
AS> smelled like a perfume factory.) He gropes around, IN THE DARK, and
AS> although a few
AS> minutes ago so near death that people thought he WAS dead...and moves
AS> a stone that is SEALED, and which two grown women of an era where a
AS> lot of women did heavy manual labor were wondering how they could
AS> move. Andrenelin? We're talking more SUPERMAN here.
We're talking outside help, here.
AS> And after that, with wounds in His feet, He walks the ten miles to
AS> Emmaneus.
May not have been him at all. He was not recognised at the time.
AS> And when the disciples see Him, they don't go, "Good grief, you're
AS> alive, but you look like death warmed over, sit down and I'll get a
AS> doctor..." instead they all want to be like His "resurrected" self.
AS> Do you believe it? I don't. I would much rather believe a
AS> Resurrection than that bad combination of clumsy writing and
AS> unbelievable situations. What might work MARGINALLY better if for
AS> JEsus to enter a deathlike coma, but stir enough to clue Joseph He was
AS> still alive. So Joseph puts Him in a special tomb which has a hidden
AS> passage that leads to Josephs's home in Jerusalem....
AS> And Joseph has doctors care for Jesus, and convinces Jesus that His
AS> survival is a miracle.
AS> That ALMOST works...unless you start to wonder why in the world
AS> Joseph had a tomb with a hidden passage. It's like all those bad
AS> movies where every castle or old house had a secret passage. It would
AS> have to be dug ahead of time....
AS> See what I mean how alternative explanations violate what we DO
AS> know about human nature and situations, whereas we have no way to
AS> evaluate the probability of a Resurrection?
I wouldn't buy that version either.
... MONEY TALKS ... but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 23 Dec 96 19:36:00
EID:9110 21979c80
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> post here. Wiccans do not seek converts or argue their own
RH> personal beliefs. That's why they get less flak.
GTP> Sure, as long as we don't manifest any deity belief.
Yep. Works for me.
RH> Except from me, once in awhile, just to keep things balanced.
GTP> And JJ but every side has to have it's. . .um, less desirables.
GTP>
It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
RH> Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
GTP> Just goes to show that you haven't met me yet.
Yeah, and I've seen no evidence for those supposedly divine tits
either.
.GIFs, we want .GIFs!
... This BBS has achieved Air superiority.
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PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:22:20
EID:94f6 219892c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c01fa2
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32bef6ae
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Gwenny:
DM>> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM>> Defenseless here?
GTP>> Mistress if you please, or you'll feel the bite of my
GTP>> whip.
DM> Allright, _Mistress_ Defenseless, then, Shrinking Violet of the
DM> American West.
What a cute concept. . .me, shy.
GTP>> (btw, what is a WOA, I've been busy lately and haven't kept up on
GTP>> stuff.)
DM> Wicked Old Atheist, of course. You know--the people who, for the
DM> most part, do no good deeds.
What about the Wicked Young Atheist. . .does s/he do no good deeds.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Great! My cat has been cashing my reality checks again!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: stargoat crap.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:24:07
EID:b2ab 21989300
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02014
REPLY: 1:261/1137 98008574
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Curtis!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Curtis say to Gwenny:
GT>> Yeah, but she had a sex change operation sometime in the Dark Ages.
CJ> Since the The Spook and Jesus are supposedly the same, by
CJ> Staalian thinking it was because she needed a penis to urinate.
Hey, what kind of cheap ass gods do they have. Heck, even your average-every-night
vampire can survive without excreting. You'd think their omnipotent deities
could manage it.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If your god is dead, try one of mine
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:30:35
EID:f315 219893c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c021ab
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32beca02
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Gerry!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Gerry say to CHRIS:
CG>> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th, and a Good New Year.
GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid of the word
GD> Christmas and what it stands for?
I think he was trying to be courteous, since only a portion of the folks
that post here celebrate Christmas. It might have been better if he had
said Happy Holidays, since few of us celebrate our festivities on the 25th.
That is the day for Christians, Mithras worshippers, and seculars. Pagans,
Jews, etc have different days for their stuff.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Off by CRASHING COMPUTER. Time Logged: ß"¹Üµ›Èô
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: All
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:33:26
EID:4bc1 21989420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02eff
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, All!
You know, Tiggy, the mommy of my new grandson, asked me what the real topic
for this echo is, since we so seldom discuss religion. Does anyone know
what the most posted about topic is?? I mean, all you atheists don't have
anything to do for the next couple of days, so you have time to figure it
out for me, don't you?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:47:59
EID:be36 219895e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c028de
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Dan:
CG> As to being in the top 1%, yes, according to MENSA, I understand you
CG> have this organisation in America! :-)
MENSA!? MENSA?! Don't tell me that you belong to MENSA!
I've taken their test. I passed. But I've never been tempted
to join. If I was an insecure loser who wanted to sit around and try to
impress other insecure losers, I might reconsider. However, I am a very
secure just-above-average-intelligence person who doesn't think that just
being intelligence is enough. I have found that, usually, the higher a
person's IQ the less likely they are to have any social skills or common
sense. Excuse me, but I'll stick to being a merely bright person with lots
of friends who doesn't make stupid mistakes.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Work hard. Do right. Waddya get? |=\\\\\\\\>'ed.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:03:57
EID:784e 21989860
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c0294a
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Sue:
CG>> Take rock with, alleged, micro-fossils; allegedly from Mars, add to
CG>> HolySmoke, allegedly Christian, echo = .......
SA>> :) Who ever said HolySmoke was Christian? :)
CG> What? You mean all these Christian messages are fake? And Mars really
CG> doesn't exist?
Oh, I'm sure some of the fundies are for real, but the echo is owned by
the atheists. The moderator, Styx Allum, is an atheist last I heard.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I'd invite Jesus into my heart, but my blood needs the room.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:05:13
EID:f4fa 219898a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c029f6
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafb8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to Marty:
CG>> And, unlike you, Mr Goldberg, I come within the top 1% of the human
CG>> race.
ML>> Based upon what benchmarks?
CG> MENSA.
How about the college entrance exams. I scored in the top 1% of all the
college bound students. . .except in Math. Like Marty, I managed to avoid
learning math in high school and paid for it later. And like Marty, they
were so impressed with my other scores they let me in anyway and gave me
a bunch of grants and scholarships.
But, as I said before, MENSA is not for me. I have a life.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Show me some more of this Earth thing called kissing. --Lister.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: text
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:10:37
EID:58e9 21989940
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c02f58
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32bdafd6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Chris!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Chris say to All:
CG> Being English, I expect people to read my messages before they start
to
CG> answer them.
And, therefore, soooooo superior to us colonials. I know a number of your
fellow country wo/men who have decided to make the USA their home. You
all do seem to be a little full of yourselves. Note I say seem, as I have
not met any English person who was still living in England. (I suppose
I shall someday, when I try to track down my great grandfather's kin. Not
alot of hope, since he was a foundling on the steps of a church in Ratshillbatshill,
but I can try anyway.) I tend to be willing to forgive you all your condescending
manners, since you are responsible for Dr Who and Monte Python.
Ahhhhh, we just finished our annual Long Night Celebration. . .10 hours
of non-stop Monte Python. I was a little disappointed that we couldn't
find Eric the Viking, but we did the Meaning of Life and The Holy Grail,
so I can't complain TOO much. Oh, and the episode with the dead parrot.
I LOVE that episode.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: Cthulu Filk of Colors of the Wind
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:36:29
EID:bd5d 21989c80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c03130
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 a027c8f8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
Hey, dearie, snagged this off the Filk echo. Thought you, and some of the
other Cthulhu lovers might like this. It's actually pretty good.
a> Calling on the Wind
a> Sing to: "Colors of the Wind" from Pocahontas
a> You think you know the only god to pray to
a> And Cthulhu's just myth beneath the sea
a> But I know all the names of all the Old Ones
a> All my life, have their spirits, lived in me.
a> You think that every god must look like people
a> And not some icky thing from outer space
a> But if you walk beside Nyarlathotep
a> You'll meet things that have no face, that have no face
a> Have you ever seen the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> Or asked the cats of Ulthar why they grin?
a> Can you sing to Azathoth high in the mountains?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Come follow hidden paths that lead to nowhere
a> Come taste the fresh cut fungi from Yuggoth
a> Come roll in lotus flowers brought from Sarnath
a> And for once, dream the dream your kind forgot
a> Byathis and his kin they are my brothers
a> The Black Goat's thousand young they are my friends
a> And we will someday merge with one another
a> In a mythos, in a tale that never ends
a> Have you ever seen the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> Or let the Deep Ones speak of where they've been
a> Can you sing to Azathoth high in the Mountains
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Can you hear Cthulhu calling on the wind?
a> Where does the Miskatonic flow?
a> If you dam it up, you won't ever know
a> And you'll never see the Shoggoth in the pale moon light
a> For whether we have scales or human skin
a> We need to sing to Azathoth high in the Moutains
a> We need to hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> We need to hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> You can sail the seas and still
a> He will wait and dream until
a> You can hear Cthulhu calling on the wind
a> Shareright (sr) 1995 James Westbrooks
a> This and all my songs (?) may be performed or distributed freely as long
a> as you credit me as the author (and don't make any money in the
a> process, the operative word here being "free"). In fact, I would be
a> hugely complimented if someone were to sing any of my material.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... How can you buy or sell the sky? - Chief Seatle, 1852
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: Cthulhu Ctharols (was: Old Time Filk Singing)
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:41:23
EID:5fec 21989d20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c03250
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 404c2899
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
tomsmith@izzy5.izzy.net say to Multiple:
Seems to be Cthulhu week on Filk. . .some more lovely tunes to add to your
collection:
t> years old." He begins to play "O Tannenbaum", but....
t> "O Yog-Sothoth, O Yog-Sothoth,
t> We worship You, O Yog-Sothoth.
t> Who's Santa Claus? Who's Jesus Christ?
t> We worship Yog 'cause He's not nice.
t> "We'll celebrate with some stray dog,
t> Which we'll carve up and serve to Yog,
t> O Yog-Sothoth, O Yog-Sothoth,
t> Eat someone else, not me-ee."
<>
t> playing "The Beer Barrel Polka".
t> "Wor... ship... Cthulhu, worship Cthulhu today,
t> Wor... ship... Cthulhu, our High Priest will show you the way,
t> Sing... to... Cthulhu, raise all your voices on high,
t> Now's the time to worship Cthulhu, or you're going... to... die!
t> "Wor... ship... Cthulhu, and you'll never worship in vain,
t> Wor... ship... Cthulhu, it's better than dying in pain,
t> Sing... to... Cthulhu, raise all your voices in fear,
t> Now's the time to worship Cthulhu, 'CAUSE CTHU... LHU'S... HERE!"
t> +-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
t> | Tom Smith (tomsmith@izzy.net) | Amiga - Babylon 5 - MST3K |
t> | The World's Fastest Filker | http://www.izzy.net/~tomsmith |
t> +-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... The crisis of today is the joke of tomorrow.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Sean Mccullough
|Sub: All who got the Cthulhu files
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:47:00
EID:13e4 21989de0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c0336d
REPLY: 1:333/401.1 88497850
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
*** Answering a msg posted in area FILK (Science Fiction Fannish Folksongs).
Heilsa, Sean!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
kay.shapero@salata.com say to Multiple:
Here's another one. . .
ks> SUNG FROM UNDER THE BED
ks> Words: Kay Shapero
ks> Tune: Cecilia*
ks> CHORUS: Cthulhu, you're breaking my mind.
ks> My sanity's vanishing daily!
ks> Oh, Cthulhu, I'm down on my knees
ks> I'm begging you, please -- go away,
ks> Go away!
ks> I picked up this ancient book
ks> By some guy named Abdul Al-Haz'red (Al-Haz'red)
ks> Read two chapters; now it seems
ks> You're disturbing my days and you're haunting my dreams.
ks> CHORUS
ks> Half-awake in the early morn
ks> With my lover sleeping by my side (by my side)
ks> When I feel a nameless dread
ks> And I turn on the light, I find you in my bed!
ks> CHORUS
ks> Hiding out in the afternoon
ks> In a room at Miskatonic U (hiding out)
ks> Elder Signs from ceiling to floor,
ks> And there's star-stones to block off the windows and door.
ks> Consternation! He's found me again,
ks> I crawl in the closet and shiver.
ks> Consternation! He's found me again,
ks> I crawl in the closet and shiver.....
ks> Words copyright Kay Shapero, 1983
ks> * With the author's apologies to Simon, Garfunkel, and H.P. Lovecraft...
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A Most Dangerous Thing - an Ensign with a map....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 22 Dec 96 12:42:00
EID:ba2c 21966540
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C1
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-13-96 (17:55) Number: 31288
From: JOHN JEANNEAULT Refer#: NONE
To: ALL CHRISTIANS Recvd: NO
Subj: HOLYSMOKE Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JJ>Hi Fellow Christians.
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
by no
JJ>longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity, or tolerance
JJ>within this message area. The goal of the message base is only to ridicule
a
JJ>malign Christ and His followers. The only reason the enemies of Christ
post
JJ>here, is to participate in the roasting and ridicule, not because they
are
JJ>interested in any sort of dialogue or debate with Christians. They are
rude,
JJ>closeminded and arrogant for the most part. To continue posting and "debatin
JJ>with them is tantamount to exposing the gospel to ridicule and destruction.
JJ>continue to post is to exemplify the text which exhorts us not to "cast
your
JJ>pearls before swine".
Since you never answer messages posted in your alias name
< Leonard Bernier >
but are allowed to keep posting reglious junk messages,
how fair do you want it ? I've yet to see you debate anyone in
either name.
__View of Christian Love__
" The work of a secret feminist agenda that is not about
equal rights for women.It is about a socialist,
anti-family political movement that encourages women to
leave their husbands, kill their children, practice
witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."
-- Pat Robertson on the Iowa Equal Rights Amendment --
* SLMR 2.1a * "This is Abuse. Arguments are down the hall."
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 23 Dec 96 08:26:00
EID:9576 21974340
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C2
DM> DM> weight here. This echo _exists_ to argue and fire off
DM> DM> insults at others, particularly at fundies unable to provide
DM> DM> any non-Biblical evidence for their many claims. Those who
DM> DM> volunteer to take a turn in the barrel may _ask_ others not
DM> DM> to use the bunghole, but they had better wait for the others
DM> DM> to agree before getting in.
DM> GTP> Although when the fundy pickin's get slim, ya'll don't scruple
DM> GTP> tormenting us poor, defenseless heathen .
DM> Awwwwww geeeez!
DM> Hey, WOAs! Can we have a hearty round of sniff for Miss
DM>Defenseless here?
Sure .....poor baby..... about as 'Defenseless' as a polar bear
with a fundy shoved up it ass.
* SLMR 2.1a * * Anything U say will be misquoted & used against You. **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Holysmoke
|Date: 22 Dec 96 17:07:00
EID:6ee1 219688e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C3
DM>John Jeanneault said "HOLYSMOKE" to All Christians, adding:
DM> JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
DM> JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun
DM> JJ> by no longer posting here. There is nothing of fairness, objectivity,
DM> JJ> or tolerance within this message area. The goal of the message base
is
DM> JJ> only to ridicule and malign Christ and His followers. The only reason
DM> Has anyone here _ever_ seen a pearl from this bozo?
See spamming via ...... Leonard Bernier....... One and the
same, one's a node and the other is a point off that node.
Dipshit made a few mistakes with the flag on his posting a
few times. A bit of a give away. Wonder if his God loves his
/her/its lieing, WHAT! am I'm Saying, shit the bible says it's
all right to lie and cheat.
[more layers of lies then a brick wall]
* SLMR 2.1a * * Depression is merely anger without too much enthusiasm
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 23 Dec 96 11:50:00
EID:b79e 21975e40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C4
CG> -=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Chris Green <=-
> CG> By the way, is your Congress any closer to getting that Chemical
> CG> Company to pay for the Bopal incident?
> DH> What's a Congress?
CG>You mean you don't come from Quebec?
Not that lad. Just a few miles away from me, +- a half hundred
miles or so.
CG>... ******WARNING*******TRAWLER OPERATING******WARNING*******
Yup. We caught it the 1'st time.
Is that a 1 inch mesh or a 6 inch mesh ?
* SLMR 2.1a * ** It's Like Chasing A Fart In The Wind! **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Assisted Suicide
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:13:00
EID:3d25 219879a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C5
Subj: Assisted Suicide Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DH>>>> Forcing people who want to die to stay alive. Why make sense?
> RV> I was kind of looking at it as if legal for one group ie: the old
and
> RV> tried or the fatal sick. Then it would also have to be open for
> RV> anyone. If it every gets allowed here, then i can see another
> RV> battle like the anti-abortion group. However the rules are apply it
> RV> would be another can or worms.
DH>Oh, there is never any shortage of people who know better than others
DH>how those others ought to live or die. When you count the number of
This is true,if to no one else, then myself. Someone, somewhere will
always know better then I, as to how i should live my life. What ever
the problem in life, i'm going through. Someone, somewhere, will ,with
joy, tell me how I'm wrong and perhaps tell me a why.
DH>assisted suicides (even the number of suicides) it is a VERY small
DH>part of the population. There are many more people talking about it
DH>than are seriously considering it.
Again, I would say, likely true. Somewhat like a female who will
abort a possible child. Most times it's not a simple decision at all,
there usually is a lot of thought behind it. Again, I'm only looking at
this from my life and those i know or have knowen.
For me, I'm a chicken with pain and know i would cut the cord ie:life
when it got too bad or a combination or pain and a down mood. My left
over family know this, may not like the idea; but if it happen, they
would finally understand when the anger was temper with time.
Each person has their level of tolerance, Neither I nor anyone else
should have a say, when that level has been passed.
> RV> It is what i would support, then like i also indicated. Even I, would
> RV> find it hard to allow the young access to it and thats not being
> RV> fair.
DH>Do you think that's a similar phenomenon to the people who don't trust
DH>the terminally ill to end their own lives?
I can see it a bit that way. Some days, the pain of life seems too
great and yet, a few days later. The pain has drop and life goes on.
For myself, ignoring that all will die... when it's a knowen killer of
life and a young person. That case, nope, for them, they should be
allowed to carry out their wish, when they wish it.
This bit of holding on, a cure may happen someday, is a poor reason for
those who are in pain , to hang on or not be allowed to die . That
is sick and just another form of torture. I'm dealing with body pain not
just mental pain. I do know of the difference of the two.
The combination of both body and mind pain is a deadly combination
anyhow. To finish the bodys pain, more so, when you understand
that it will never leave off, ever. I know I couldn't handel it, why
make a stranger have to handel it.
As to mental pain, I know of that, and also know , that I'm not sure
of what my view on it is. Some days it's a YES - allow it and other
days it's a 'HOLD On', it will pass and be less.
Here again, I'm only speaking of my experience, and with that, does it
give me a right to speak for others. In reality, and to be truthful, I
would have to say ' NO ' , i can't speak nor do I have the right to
speak for anyone else.
That I got pass my pain and finally solve it, doesn't mean everyone
will. We, are not all the same.
I'm also fairly sure that if there wasn't such a negitive effect
of self killing, I'm fairly sure i wouldn't be here now.
> RV> I've always wonder to myself, if i have the right to interfear in
> RV> their life. They may have presented their wish to me and
> RV> if i happen to have turn them on their path, by accident i may turn
> RV> them on a worst path. That is my biggest fear when this happens.
DH>We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
DH>others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
I will beg to differ. We are that powerful. That person, to tell me
his , his pass and what he could see ahead.{ his life }
I did have power since i also had his trust. With that and since i could
see where he was comeing from. I did have power, a form of anyhow. I
could of painted the picture {future life} blacker and what is the use
to go on, or even try {life}. Because i may question your opinon, doen't
mean i will always question it. This does or may give you power over me.
Your forgetting that part of the human experience. We, humans sometimes
get very tried of wanting to look for answers ourselfs.
So again, i say, as a human, we can be that powerful ie: any abuse
situation done via words for control shows us this.
DH>We are not that powerful that we are responsible for the lives of
DH>others in such circumstances. If a person has been raised entirely
DH>within an environment from which that person will choose death to
DH>escape, one other cannot take responsibility for the choice of
DH>direction at each corner. That childrearing will not be undone in
The Final choice, is the fianl actor in life. But as a careing human
of my fellow person, i do have to question myself. Do i have the right
to question or to hand out information that may or maynot change this
person opinon on going on trying. Agree, most don't bother, and they
just toss it out or force it in their life. Those who care, will always
question themselfs before giveing any opinon, that one must live at any
cost.
Again, I don't buy that any cost bit. I may hate to see a friend die too
soon , but I also understand. I may be wrong, I may
be, VERY WRONG. I must also understand that I will never likely know
either way. Right or Wrong. In reality, there
there is no real answer. This likely will only effect those with no god
and the final answer. I personally don't think there will ever be a easy
answer to the question, to live or not.
DH>a few conversations. If we are the first positive presence in such
DH>a tragic life, how could something we say cause a death if we are
DH>acting without doubt in that person's best interest?
Not in the fact of something we said that cause them to live or die.
In this case i was thinking of something, I may have said that caused
them to live, but in their liveing they caused others to suffer. When i
say suffer, i'm thinking of an abuse situation or takeing someone else
life or more then another life. By my speaking, it may of been positive
for the liveing of them, but they, in their liveing caused
more harm then if they died young. Hitler would be a good example. Thats
along the idea i was talking of. < extreme example, i know >
DH>If we were to earn a trust and betray it, yes, that could mitigate
DH>suicide. But that would take a betrayal.
For those few who understand their own mental life and can understand
how and the why they do things,. It gets easier to
understand others and to lead them. If the target is a lazy thinker, I
would say it would also be easy to lead them to the edge and give a
mental push. Thats one of the reasons, I'm always questioning myself,
I've tried in small ways to see if I could control others with a word or
two. I also didn't feel so great when i found i could. I will always
question what i do and the why i do it. Those who have a low opion of
themselfs are easyer to control, I only have to look to myself for that.
I've don't such a great job there, that it's taken years to beat the
bad effects and some days those effects are still in control.
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ If Goddess Took Acid Would She See People ? +++
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 23 Dec 96 13:44:00
EID:247c 21976d80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C6
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-20-96 (21:56) Number: 31603
From: MIMI MILSTEIN Refer#: NONE
To: RONALD VASS Recvd: YES
Subj: oh hell Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MM>Hello Ronald!
MM>Ronald Vass wrote in a message to Curtis Johnson:
MM>CJ> AS> Nope. Ever read War of the Worlds, by H.G. Wells? One soldier
said
MM>CJ> AS> wasn't a war between them and the Martiains...anymore than man
wars
MM>CJ> AS> with the ants. Ants plan, build, wage wars, but a man can trod
on a
MM>CJ> AS> anthill and they'll have to start all over again...
MM>CJ> What was the title of that book, again?
MM>RV> He's thinking of the radio program, I think.
MM>I doubt it. H.G. Wells novella was published in 1898,
MM>decades before Orson Welles made his famous radio version
MM>on Oct-30-1938 and got the suckers running out of town.
Ok. So, I'm the one thinking of the radio program. Of all the
SF books i have readed. Thats one author, I've never read. I had
Orson Welles, tied into that war of the world. I guess one of
these days i should read the orginal book by the real author.
Thanks.
* SLMR 2.1a * ** How do You feel about Insults and death threats ?? **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: death
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:05:00
EID:b743 219870a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C7
DW>Carl Sagan died early this morning.
DW>Jesse Jones (and a host of other bloodsucking lawyers) is still alive.
DW>There obviously is no God.
Which god ?
* SLMR 2.1a * ** If You Drink Like A FISH, Please Swim Home. **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 24 Dec 96 08:54:00
EID:816f 219846c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C8
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 12-21-96 (19:17) Number: 31898
From: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ Refer#: NONE
To: JOHN JEANNEAULT Recvd: NO
Subj: [2/2 HOLYSMOKE Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB> >>> Part 2 of 2...
LB> JJ> THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH
TO
LB> JJ> HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY,
LET
LB> JJ> US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND HEARTS
TO
LB> JJ> FEEL!
LB>Tell that Spirit to lower the volume. You're getting hoarse.
LB> JJ> Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with
LB> JJ> them..he only posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook!
LB> JJ> Let us all do the same....let us either get out of here
LB> JJ> altogether...or let us all barrage them with scripture....with no
LB> JJ> response to the slap on the cheek, except that of quoting more
LB> JJ> scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
LB>Yes...lets leave. But don't leave. Let's just go...sort of. Maybe. Yea,
that
LB>the ticket.
Both partys are the same person. point and node
95.9% sure
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A Peake, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:48:00
EID:45ca 21985e00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043C9
AS> RC> Such as the "need" to retrieve an axehead by miraculously making
AS> RC> it float. Little children being raped, however, merit no such
AS> RC> miraculous intervention.
AS> RC>
AS> RC> Just what kind of screwed up priorities do you ascribe to your
AS> RC> pathetic made up god, Al?
AS> The best, I think.
AS> Most of the miracles which are at the heart of my religion, concern
Death
....
......
AS> involves us all, the abused and the abuser, the poor and the rich, the
AS> intelligent and the mentally challenged. For we all must face death.
So as a Christian, you also support the rape of kids. In the long run,
it's how God wants it, and Al supports what his God wants ?
But save that chunk of iron, it's more importaint then a childs mental
health.
Cute Al. Nice God you worship. Great fine tuning there, warp a kid
for life or better still, kill it for Christ. [part of that 3 in 1 god]
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A Peake, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 24 Dec 96 12:31:00
EID:72aa 219863e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CA
AS> AS> Which is one reason Einstein HATED it. But at least you can
AS> AS> statistically make predictions from it, no matter that we can't
do on
AS> AS> each individual wave/particle.
AS> RH> Works with people, too. One man is hard to predict, but mob psychology
AS> RH> is well established.
AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
* SLMR 2.1a * ** In Waking A Tiger Or A female, Use A Long Stick **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:10:00
EID:1112 21986940
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CB
KD> BJ> ultimate source of Christianity and it's value system, which he
so
KD> BJ> hated.
KD>Nope.
KD> BJ> Open up your heart then. I'm not asking you to be guilible, or
KD> BJ> anti-intellectual. These are not admirable traits in any sense.
I do
KD> BJ> ask though that you not reply to me as if I'm an enemy.
KD>You'd *have* to be gullible to be a Christian.
It helps.
KD>... Watch the short jokes or I'll bite you on the ankle!
4 foor 9" . . . . R U N T . . . .
* SLMR 2.1a * ** Mike H.** living example of Artificial Intelligence.*
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Christian Adultery
|Date: 24 Dec 96 13:24:00
EID:68b8 21986b00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CC
GT>Heilsa, Ronald Vass!
GT>Thursday December 12 1996 20:20, Ronald Vass wrote to Dan Ceppa:
GT>RV> From what we see here, those who profess the Christian Faith
GT>RV> lie ... all/most of the time. No ?
GT>Yes.
Perhaps I should of said, " it seems like . . ." . It's more my
problem then the so called 'God Believer', if a god profess to
be true to that god or even themselfs. Why can't they just come out
with .. I don't understand....I don't know why.... perhaps it means
... type of thing. Instead they come out with a postive statement even
if that statement has been showen to be unproven or a direct lie.
They [to me] are lieing to themselfs. A person who continues to do
that, and thinks it's good. Will never be trusted by me. Like i said,
it's my problem.
* SLMR 2.1a * *** Sandra And her Mists Of Distortion ***
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:22:00
EID:465b 219872c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CD
> RV> Comma king is Hardy , I think you confuse that with the Perfect Al,
> RV> ' I control the mind of God'.
CJ> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
D O N ' T !! do that, Al will believe your sucking up to him.
> RV> I see Al is so close to the bottom of the barrel, he's now useing
> RV> well Ron did it. Shit is that a laught, between you
> RV> and Curry he's picking up any rock to hid under.
CJ> I knew you'd be amused by that.
Just a shake of the head, if i hadn't seen it, I would never believe
it could happen. Funny but sad, at the same time.
CJ> I am pretty amused by how that attempted novelist is now
CJ> trying to defend himself by playing loose with definitions, and
CJ> saying it's OK to be careless with information and to write
CJ> sentences that state completely different from what he claims he
CJ> meant.
He's been caught out too often, it's loseing its humor. Time to check
the why it continues. Not you, him.
> RV> I've looked for the orginal post but alas thats another that
> RV> never made it this far. Now the hub is talking ofpicking up
> RV> the fido package through the inter-net. If that happens, who
> RV> the hell knows how it will work out.
CJ> Any idea of just how I-net the fido package will become?
CJ> I'm wondering if one of those search engines will put FIDO
CJ> echoes into its database, as Dejanews does for newsgroups.
The chap that was the hub for a bit did it with the news groups ,
placeing them in the message base. I guess it would be done the
same way. With the break up of the mail, it's getting
to the stage of just reading the base again. I think most replys i send
out are getting lost. No fireworks comeing back , weeken mail
is the worst, it's getting to the point, i'm surprise anything is
makeing it pass the local hub. Must be that quantum god loseing it's
quark in Al's sample space.
CJ> RV> O'well.....Have a good one.
CJ> You too. I'll do something for myself while hunkering down
CJ> and waiting for the damn holiday to blow over.
Can't happen fast enought for me.
Have a Great Day.
ron.
* SLMR 2.1a * *** PMS *** Permanent Mean Streak.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: .
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:26:00
EID:9170 21987340
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CE
AS> BTW, Ron. Despite the words we have crossed each other with, nevertheless
Don't feel special, I can piss off anyone, sooner or later. It's
a habit of mine.
AS> I am very glad you post on this echo. And however you enjoy this season
of
AS> the year...either as Christmas, Hannukah, Winter Solstice, Yule, or
just a
AS> few days off...have a Happy one.
You have a good day too.
* SLMR 2.1a * *Which way ? Don't ask me, I'm only visiting this planet.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AND MORE LIFE.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:37:00
EID:fae9 219874a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043CF
> RV> To die, that in itself, isn't what i fear. The way and means of dieing
> RV> does cause a fear, that i won't denie. I've been on the borderline
of
RH>Ah yes. As the torturer told the condemned man "Dying is easy; it's getting
RH>there that's hard". With my luck, I'll die slowly of pneumonia, drowning
in
RH>my own mucus.
Actually I'm hopeing for a plane load of fundy's to drop out of the
sky and kill me. That way i can stand back in my spirt form as i watch
Satan and hir little helpers, chain up all those good christians and
feed them to that christian lake of fire.
Make my fucking day, fast death and a humor show all in one.
> RV> the body shutting down. It was a V E R Y N I C E feeling. I don't
> RV> fear that part at all, if anything, i look forward to it again.
RH>Indeed. Many stories have told of resuscitated individuals being most
RH>annoyed at being "brought back".
Took me a week to thank him, thats how pissed off i was at him. Dirty
rotten SOB.
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ For +++ Punishment +++ Drink Scotch +++
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al debunks Apple Sauce
|Date: 24 Dec 96 15:30:00
EID:99c1 21987bc0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C043D0
> AS> Because I believe in free will, and Appleton is a willfull idiot.
> RV> Not the way he can join words together. A lier maybe, but far from
> RV> an idiot. I do understand what you meant, though.
AS> Appleton. He will just pull the snippets from his quote book and think
AS> he's proven something, without even realizing how he's debunked himself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now Al. Look to what your saying here.
The fact the god thumpers drag a god out of some bible and wave it all
over the place is no different then Sir Apple Sauce . Actually,
Sir Apple Sauce is closer to telling the truth. At least his characters,
in his fantasy have lived and others can check their pass lives and any
writeing done by said character. The thumpers of god or gods, can't even
pull that much EVIDENCE for their fantasy.
Better be careful, of who debunks whom.
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * +++ Reglion. Lets Untalented people make a liveing +++