God Damned Fundies!
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:47:38
EID:da9d 219a55e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2b
AS> nothing to constrain them. You can look at that idea...that they
AS> could not
AS> be different...in two different ways. That this is the only logically
AS> self-consistent universe possible...which seems contradicted by what
AS> we can devise in model universes....or that we happen to have these
AS> constants
AS> by total chance. Interesting chances.
RH> Or, more correctly, that the constants describe the fundamental nature
RH> of matter/energy and thus can have NO other values.
Again, that would imply that this is the only self-consistent universe
possible. But we have no evidence for that.
AS> How is that different from someone in the Dark Ages saying, "I don't
AS> see how the sun could NOT rise in the morning, and even if it could
do
AS> differently, it doesn't, so it is a moot point"? I think the
AS> question is still worth asking.
RH> But you keep coming up with the wrong ANSWER! God is not an answer.
RH> He is a cop-out. For example the everything has a cause argument.
RH> You then say Well, God is the First Cause and He is an exception
RH> to the rule. He has no cause. Cop-out.
Yes, which is one reason I don't use that argument. There is nothing
intrinsically WRONG with the idea of an infinite regress. We find it hard
to imagine, but there could be an infinite number of causes out there.
AS> Would you rather I believe the religious stuff without a logical
AS> starting point?
RH> Yes. Then you wouldn't keep pestering us with nonsense.
I dunno...it's the ones who believe without reason that, I think, become
fanatics more easily.
AS> I know that, Roger. You're one of the better people here. Take care.
RH> And you, as well, no matter what everyone else says here!
Thanks.
... "Are you suggesting that coconuts are migratory?" - Monty Python
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:48:43
EID:85c1 219a5600
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2c
AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
RV> So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
So who's the Second Foundation?
... Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:56:04
EID:85d1 219a5700
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2d
JB> Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics (Bell)
AS> Of Bell's theorem fame? Nope.
JB> Yes. Good stuff.
Ok, that makes him even more interesting.
JB> Gad, man, you're a _reader_! You've got most of all you need, to see
JB> the same general pattern I think I see....
I've read four books a week since I was eighteen or so. Not necessarily
anything along those lines...anything this side of Harlequin romances,
really. Cheap mystery, bad science fiction, etc.
AS> Excellent! Most of those I haven't read, although I read the Bell's
AS> Theorem one which was reproduced in an book about questions about
AS> quantum mechanics. (Been a couple of years, though, can't remember
AS> the author.) I've read excerpts of Einstein's EPR paper.
AS> Thanks a lot, John.
JB> Welcome. I need to add a few, since the list is already three years
JB> old.
JB> You've probably got what you need, to understand why I think what I
JB> think....
JB> I'd recommend, however, the Scully paper, and anything on the subject
JB> by his cohorts Kwiat and Steinberg. One needs that "delayed choice"
JB> stuff to _really_ twist the mind around backwards....
Sounds like fun! I wasn't able to get out to the library this weekend,
hopefully I'll be able to do so this upcoming weekend.
I LOVE stuff that makes me go, "What?"
... MEGAHERTZ: When something is really painful.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:45:59
EID:2b47 219aa5a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2e
CJ> My apologies to Michael Hardy.
RV> D O N ' T !! do that, Al will believe your sucking up to him.
Nope. That's Lynda's job, to insinuate that others believe in Hardy's
"sucking up".
... The crisis of today is the joke of tomorrow.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 26 Dec 96 11:09:50
EID:09d4 219a5920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2f
AS> Right. BTW, ever read his JOB? To really enjoy it, it helps if you
AS> have read Cabell first...because Koschei, the power behind all gods,
AS> is lefted from Cabell directly into Heinlein's scenario.
JB> (*Hmmm.... hole in my reading list....Cabell....)
JURGEN was his most famous novel. THE SILVER STALLION is good too, and so
is CREAM OF THE JEST, but I don't think you should start out with CREAM.
JB> I've read every novel Heinlein wrote, including "Job." My first S-F
JB> novel was "Star Beast" --at the age of 12 or so-- followed by Andre
JB> Norton's "Ad Astra." Then "Red Planet" and onward from there for
JB> eight or nine hundred other novels (excluding short stories) over the
JB> years.
JB> _more_ pertinent today than it was in the early sixties....
Yes. He ages well.
AS> Yes. I've heard, off and on, that there is going to be a movie about
AS> it...last person I've heard mentioned for Mike was Tom Hanks. Not my
AS> image of Mike, though.
JB> No, nor mine. I've heard the rumor. That task has got to be
JB> equivalently difficult to the movie-ization of "Dune," which in my
JB> opinion failed --if not quite miserably. As you note, though,
JB> "Starship Troopers" IS being produced. That one's not _nearly_ as
JB> hard to put on screen as "Stranger..." would be. IMHO, Valentine
JB> Michael Smith had better be a completely unknown actor with an
JB> _incredible_ range....
I would suggest it would be best as a mini-series, to develop the ideas.
Just putting it in two hours things would be rushed and many of the finer
things would be lost.
AS> Heinlein got a lot of us by writing GOOD juvenile sf. In most school
JB> ....And Andre Norton...
Yep.
AS> libraries, he was there, with things like RED PLANET and such. So
JB> My daughters are 11 and 12, the 12-year-old about three years' worth
JB> of subjective maturation ahead of the 11-year-old. This Christmas,
JB> the elder gets "Stranger..." and the younger gets "Red Planet." (I'm
JB> going to hint to the elder that Stranger... is a "very dangerous
JB> book"....*g*)
That'll work!!
... Cthulu loves me, this I know, for the Necronomicon tells me so!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 26 Dec 96 11:11:25
EID:8251 219a5960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d30
GtP>> young men in here are like that. Maybe I should write up some
GtP>> guidelines to getting girls.
AS> Yes...and send them to Quentin. And is Dave Rice still a virgin?
AS> Me, I lucked into finding my wife.
GtP> Okay, I'm working it. As for David, I don't know. There have been
GtP> several of us willing to remedy that, but he hides in his tent.
Maybe he found a tentmate of his own.
... I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 26 Dec 96 21:56:42
EID:5ae1 219aaf00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d31
AS> But of course, it depends on whether Hell is just a matter of the
AS> extinction of the soul, a metaphor for nonexstence, or not.
LB>
LB>
LB> No, Al. It doesn't matter at all. Unless the victim is STILL going to
LB> be injured emotionally by the experience in the hereafter, there is
no
LB> reason for the perpetrator to be tortured, quarantened, or
LB> extinguished. Not as far as the victim would be concerned.
That's a remarkably silly assumption. Do I REALLY want, say, my wife
making it to Heaven, only to have Richard Speck, Jack the Ripper, and Ted
Bundy in the next palace on the streets of gold? Quarentine at the very
least is mandated to keep Heaven Heavenly.
LB> Now, you've got God thinking up infinite delights for those in
LB> heaven...we are told AS VICTIMS that there will be no more tears in
LB> heaven, that the victims will find solace and true healing from the
LB> traumas worked on them. Can't a God who can, through joy, do that not
LB> spare any of that infinity to work in some healing for those
LB> victimIZERS as well? He's got eternity to do it in, what's the problem?
LB> Why a final solution to a temporal problem when one is in a plane of
LB> infinite nonfinality?
Because those who reach Heaven in some manner agree to the need for
correction. That is what forgiveness entails...admitting to God you did
wrong, and an implicit agreement not to do it again (which doesn't always
succeed, but the intent needs to be there.) Those who do not agree to such
conditions reject even that proferred hand.
It all comes down to us saying to God, Thy Will be done...or God saying
to us, THY will be done.
LB> Why would I or anyone else be interested in revenge or be still so
LB> emotionally affected by the experience of rape and victimization that
i
LB> will....an eternity from now....still be unable to face my victimizer
LB> without fear or hatred, unless I am still going to be traumatized by
LB> it? And if I am...how is that "heaven"?
No; turn it around. If the victimizer is there, and has learned
nothing...how is that "heaven"? Should people be able to stalk in
Heaven?
LB> Anything done to the victimer AFTER my death is not done for my sake
-
LB> if God chooses revenge, it is his, for his reasons and has nothing to
LB> do with me. It does ME no good. Therefore, telling me that, while he
LB> never got around to stopping anything or even making himself known
LB> enough to let me know that He was there was tough, I should remember
LB> that He'll get around to it LATER is of absolutely no comfort.
But it may be for the good that it is done, not the evil. If Joe is in
Heaven...even if say, magic walls came up between you and him...he could
still say hateful things and wound you thereby. Hopefully you will be
beyond that...but only if you can get past that. Will it be possible if
he
is there?
LB> If I should find myself before God, healed from that trauma, I will
LB> plead Joe's case. And ask why nothing was done when it would have done
LB> BOTH of us some good.
And He might answer back, "Because Joe never asked." Because He might
point out that the greatest love, the greatest gifts, are the ones that
are given freely, and not forced. That your very outrage at what Joe
forced YOU to do...is the exact reason why HE did not force JOE to do
anything. Or not do anything.
LB> Of course...it works if you're telling it to someone else...that it
LB> does NOT work for those living within the context of Cepp'as question
LB> ought to tell you something.
It works sometimes if you're living it, Lynda. Otherwise everyone who
suffers a horrible fate would have stopped being religious. That is not
the case. I know women who have come to our church to ESCAPE an abusive
husband. I have myself stayed (with my wife) with a woman who was afraid
of her husband coming back and killing her if no one is with her.
LB> Oh, I absolutely suspect you have, beyond things you have mentioned.
LB> Intellectualizing what BELONGS in the arena of emotion is a survival
LB> tactic that is not uncommon in post-trauma coping. It's apparent
LB> enough that you do it that you have at times been suspected by multiple
LB> people of creating anecdotes, simply because you so completely remove
LB> your own emotions from the retelling.
They may think what they wish, of course.
LB> Therefore you are not living within the context of Dan's question,
LB> because you haven't allowed yourself to get close enough to the
LB> feelings behind it to even understand it.
There's no real good way to answer that. If I say, "parlor psychology!"
or
even cite the psychiatrist whom I saw when younger, I'm being defensive.
If I say you're right, then anything I say will be discounted because of
the possible bias I bring to that. Nevertheless, I do not discount the
well-reasoned points you have made because of your earlier abuse, and I
think you would take serious offense at me if I did. Or if I ignored what
Ron said because of that. Yet if my "intellectualization" is to be
discounted because of what I may have endured--or not--in the past, then
how is that different? I will do you the courtesy of assuming you mean
what you say, without thinking that it is an emotion-driven defense of
your earlier abuse. You may do what you like, of course. (One might add
parenthetically that a side effect of such a view is that one will rarely
be granted views of anything of a personal nature, lest it be brought up
as a possible objection to what one SAYS. That few confidences will be
exchanged, for fear that one will see the past event
and--mistakenly--apply it to everything. We see that often in biographies,
where they try to see everything about an individual in light of one or
two incidents in the person's past. In my experience, people are much more
complex than that.)
... Real men don't beat women.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:52:13
EID:abcc 219aa680
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d32
AS> But of course, it depends on whether Hell is just a matter of
AS> the extinction of the soul, a metaphor for nonexstence, or
AS> not.
MG> No it doesn't. Aside from the fact that no one has ever shown me that
MG> any kind of hell exists in any form, we now arrive at this point where
MG> you are still claiming that hell exists in the form of some kind of
MG> punishment.
No; in the form of some sort of quarentine, perhaps.
MG> Lynda's point is valid....where is god to punish severly enough the
MG> mortal that commits these acts. surely, if a place of fire and
MG> brimstone is not enough to scare them straight, a souless eternity
MG> will not do it either.
Which is one reason why hell very well might be eternal. The choice to
avoid the right path is, perhaps, self-perpetuating.
MG> It's another aspect of your gods limited ability in your free will
MG> theory where we are free to do evil even if it hurts someone else.
MG> Many persons do fear punishment for one reason or the other. Where
is
MG> your god when men rape and kill 9 year olds? Threatening them with
MG> something that doesn't scare them?
Now; is the doing good because fear of punishment the highest reason to
do
so? Or is it better to do so because it is good? And yet a god who does
not reward good action is unjust. But if the reward was, at best, not
immediately perceivable...we can still have people acting for good because
it IS good, and nevertheless reward them for it.
... Frisbyterian: When you die, your soul goes up on the roof.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 26 Dec 96 21:41:18
EID:6476 219aad20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d33
ML> Eternity with a deity of his choice.
AS> Yes. IF.
ML> Bolshoi "if", AL.
Possibly.
AS> But most rapists become repeat offenders, if offered the opportunity.
ML> Do you have statistics to support this claim?
Let's see.
According to George Allen, a governor of Virginia, three out of four
violent crimes...including rape...are done by repeat offenders...according
to something I pulled off the internet. Of course, he's a politician, so
take it with a grain of salt...
AS> "Neither do I judge you. Go, and sin no more." You have to turn from
AS> the sin to show you are in earnest. Oh, you can fall occasionally, but
AS> rape's not one of those things that I would consider an occasional
AS> fall. It's a deliberate act of violence. It's like saying you're
AS> sorry you're a killer...and then going out and shooting someone.
AS> It puts the lie to your very words.
ML> No matter. Just repent and be very, very sorry on your death
ML> bed (gurney, chair, scaffold, whatever) and *POOF*, instant
ML> eternal enhancement with your favorite deity.
If you mean it, and are saying it not to save oneself, and wouldn't do it
again even if miraculously restored to health...why not?
... Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:56:24
EID:af3c 219aa700
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d34
AS> It follows that no overall account of the universe can be
AS> true unless that account leaves it possible for our thinking
AS> to be a real insight. A theory which explained everyting
MG> Here is where your arguement falls flat on its face. Any account of
MG> the universe which is true is just that....true. Truth is not
MG> something that we need to worry about, as long as it's a materialistic
MG> truth. Once we determine th3 true nature of the universe we will not
MG> need to worry about it any longer. Your constant insistance that
MG> there is purpose gets int hte way of true insightful thinking.
No disputing that what is true is true. But asking if we are sure if what
we are measuring true is true. You can't see whether, say, a certain class
of measuring device is accurate or not by using that same measuring device
to measure the accuracy of the others....
... And now, for something completely different.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:11:54
EID:4a13 219a6960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d35
RM> That's always been my take on Al's favourite co-incidences. Maybe
RM> some day we'll know the reason for them, and maybe that reason is God.
RM> And maybe it's something physical that is just beyond our
RM> comprehension right now. (I tend to think it's the latter).
It's certainly possible. Of course, you could say that about ANYTHING.
That any argument we give can be explained by our lack of knowledge. But
we have to work with what we have.
... Nostalgia...all the good times you never had.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Jesus needed...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:57:50
EID:8382 219aa720
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d36
AS> just talking about eunuchs. (Are castrated men who program internet
AS> providers eunuchs with Unix?)
GtP> That's the second time I've seen that pun in as many days. ARGH!
Sorry about that. I feel ill...I need to take some Castrate oil...
... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:23:34
EID:5b1e 219a6ae0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d37
LB> BTW, Harpy reference made by Al one hour before i downloaded this
LB> packet. Not that that MEANS anything, of course.... ;)
Well, considering we were talking about comic pictures of many of the
participants here, and Mike's is TRULY funny...his face plastered on a
long horned goat with a pentagram behind him, looking like something out
of a bad Exorcist rip-off,,,and you all made suggestions about what to use
for me...and then Judith and several others wondered what they could use
for themselves and I made a passing reference that I had pictures of the
Harpies...I can only conclude that everybody else can make jokes EXCEPT
me.
Ahhhh, well. Many people are good at being the givers of humor, but
bristle when they are the recipients of it...
... Flog 'em if they can't take a joke!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:26:10
EID:5b1e 219a6b40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d38
LB> hehe...what was Alice's lament? "I give myself very good advice, but
LB> very seldom follow it..." ;)
Thank you, Alice.
AS> Anyway, Lynda, have a nice holiday season, and Merry Christmas. Both
AS> you, George, and the kids.
LB> :) will do. you too.
I did, thanks.
... Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:34:01
EID:b167 219a6c40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d39
ML> Only if you have covalent bands.
AS> I try to keep current...
ML> I hear you play the guitar, put the ampere.
Excuse me while I read a DC comic book...
AS> That's a shocking answer...
ML> Need new power, must revolt.
You could solve it peacefully...have the people choose their
leaders...have them run and debate, and let the people choose...you know,
an electron.
... A good pun is its own reword.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:36:18
EID:d270 219a6c80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3a
RS> Nor does Al remember being weaned . . . yet I bet he doesn't
RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
LB> This is Al we're talking about...I'm not taking any bets. ;)
Define "snack".
... I yam Popeye of the Borg. Prepares ta beez askimiligrated
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:59:21
EID:d270 219aa760
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3b
LB> Why? I don't recall learning how to walk or talk, or how to control
my
LB> bladder ...yet the lesson stays with me.
AS> Good point.
LB> :) thank you.
LB> As far as I have heard, that's how the idea of reincarnation
LB> works...between lives, you know what you've learned, what you still
LB> need to learn, minus the emotionality and vagaries of physical
LB> existance that lead us to be blind to ourselves.
LB> You choose your lessons, set your path. Failure to learn a lesson
LB> means you will continue, through life after life after life until you
LB> get it right. Then onto the next lesson.
LB> I would think, in such a context, remaining aware of the circumstances
LB> of all the other lessons would be distracting rather than helpful,
LB> rather like daydreaming about the novel being read in Lit. class during
LB> a math exam... thinking about it is not, in itself a BAD thing, simply
LB> inappropriate at that moment, since it keeps you from devoting yourself
LB> to the task at hand.
But OTOH, suppose you are being PUNISHED for what you have done in a past
life. In other words, the lesson never "took" at all. Suppose one is an
adult and still does not have his bladder under control. He or she will
have to be aware and learn it to master it, would they not?
See, your objection works as long as you LEARN the lesson. But if one
never learns to walk when young, due to disability, they still have to
learn when healed later. And they must be able to remember the lesson.
Those who do not learn in a life the consequnces of their acts are "stuck".
They will repeat the same mistakes over and over.
... Even the smallest candle burns bright in the darkness.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:48:44
EID:6291 219a6e00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3c
CJ> My apologies for some of the tone in my most recent posts
CJ> to you. But I've at last OD'd on your sheer volume, and need
CJ> a break. I would weary of even the most _sympatico_ correspondent
CJ> if they persistently sent me 18-20 lengthy missives at a time.
Understandable. Enjoy the break.
... "And my ending is despair unless I be reliev'd by prayer"--Shakespeare
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Opinions and Excsuse.
|Date: 26 Dec 96 14:12:14
EID:6d9a 219a7180
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3d
-=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Al Schroeder <=-
LA> Hi Al,
LA> (Re: yours of 18-Dec-1996, "Opinions and Excuses.")
LA> Mind you he claims to be a Christian and is much less
AS> Rick McFarlane is a Baha'i. A minor quibble, since they
AS> do believe Jesus was an Incarnation of the Divine, as they
AS> believe Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, and others are. But one I
AS> think you are unaware of.
LA> Then Rick seems to want to be "on side" with them ALL, I
LA> suppose, in the hope that at least ONE of them will be right
LA> and will not mind if he was "flirting" with the others! The
LA> Jews were guilty of the same silly behavior on many
LA> occasions, weren't they, and that did NOT seem to be such a
LA> good idea, did it?
That's a remarkably glib accusation of an entire religious faith, which
seems to be one of the more peaceful and well-reasoned ones around.
LA> I can understand the "Krishna" bit of course, since he
LA> does seem to ramble on rather incoherently most of the time!
LA> One is reminded of Adolf Hitler's advice about; "Tell a Lie,
LA> make it a big one, repeat it often . . . . ." That seems to
LA> sum up his "science" rather well - or should I say that sums
LA> up what MOST evolutionist do most of the time as they and
LA> imagine that they are being scientific! :-)
(Gentle smile.) You're comparing Rick McFarlane...or anyone who believes
in Krishna...with Hitler?
(To all) How often do I REALLY get mad with someone? (Cracking
knuckles.)
You IGNORANT, LYING, STUPID EXCUSE for an apologist, you BRAINDEAD
disgrace to Christianity, AND to Humanity, Rick has treated you with FAR
more patience than you deserve or merit, has exposed your pitiful LIES and
MISQUOTINGS repeatedly, and has generally outargued you ten ways till
Sunday. You are making Christianity a laughing stock, and although I am
not ashamed to be a Christian, I AM ashamed that you are part of it. You
distort the truth to deny it; you lie for God, which is neither a service
to God or to yourself. No one has granted you even the slightest credit
for making a point. We ALL are laughing at you and your
misrepresentations, and it is EMBARASSING to see you claim the same
religion as I.
I would rather be a nonbeliever than someone who claims to have found
the light...and then lies to try to get other people to join it.
You are hurting the Faith, and maligning one who has never done you
harm, save to tell the truth. "Ye shall know them by their fruits". Your
fruit is lies, and we know who is the father of lies. Your reliance on
misrepresnting people shows where your true allegiance lies.
... Your family's Coat-of-Arms ties in the back - is that normal?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: query
|Date: 26 Dec 96 14:14:23
EID:531d 219a71c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3e
-=> Quoting Chris Green to Martin Goldberg <=-
CG> You wouldn't happen to be the Goldberg who was teamed with Sticker?
CG> Dealing with immunology?
CG> The same person who Michael Martinez quotes frequently and
CG> extensively? (To be found in the echo Gender and Feminism)
MISquotes. Trust me.
... A child educated only at school is an uneducated child. - Santayana
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Rant Wars with "Commie Sue".
|Date: 26 Dec 96 14:17:32
EID:d2a9 219a7220
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d3f
GtP> Sean, luv, I really don't think is the place for this.
And never was, I think.
... I used to have a handle on life, then it broke.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 26 Dec 96 14:27:08
EID:92f9 219a7360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d40
AS> Probably. He would have thought it more likely to have his legs
AS> broken, as happened to the two thieves.
RH>
RH> Oh, no. The prophecy said his bones would not be broken. He HAD to
RH> "die" before that could happen.
Maybe He had poison in a hollow tooth, and crunched it to make sure he
would die before they could break it.
AS> Ok. Let's say He was expecting God to come rescue Him. He goes into
a
AS> deathlike coma. The others put on graveclothes on Him, and put Him in
AS> a sealed tomb.
RH> Not sealed. They expected to come prepare his body after the Sabbath.
Well, one account at least says sealed. But for argument's sake, we'll say
that's an exaggeration.
AS> He wakes up. Comes out of His coma. He is in a sealed tomb, so
AS> probably the air is getting rank, filled without all the fragrances
AS> with which they
AS> put on his body (from the hundred pounds of stuff, it probably
AS> smelled like a perfume factory.) He gropes around, IN THE DARK, and
AS> although a few
AS> minutes ago so near death that people thought he WAS dead...and moves
AS> a stone that is SEALED, and which two grown women of an era where a
AS> lot of women did heavy manual labor were wondering how they could
AS> move. Andrenelin? We're talking more SUPERMAN here.
RH> We're talking outside help, here.
Could be. Agreed on beforehand? Then He is knowingly helping with a fraud.
AS> And after that, with wounds in His feet, He walks the ten miles to
AS> Emmaneus.
RH> May not have been him at all. He was not recognised at the time.
Probably grimacing too much because His feet were killing him...
AS> That ALMOST works...unless you start to wonder why in the world
AS> Joseph had a tomb with a hidden passage. It's like all those bad
AS> movies where every castle or old house had a secret passage. It would
AS> have to be dug ahead of time....
AS> See what I mean how alternative explanations violate what we DO
AS> know about human nature and situations, whereas we have no way to
AS> evaluate the probability of a Resurrection?
RH> I wouldn't buy that version either.
Good. What sort of version WOULD you buy?
... A journey of a thousand miles gets 1500 frequent flier miles.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 22:09:09
EID:58df 219ab120
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d41
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him
LB> "sucking up" to the heathens....
RS> You thought that subtle?
LB> well, he didn't spell out S-u-c-k-i-n-g u-p or give us 12 quotes from
LB> Hawking and C.S. Lewis to bolster it...for Al, that is subtle.
And for you it is...? For you are the only one spelling it out...
LB> Subtle enough that he'll feel he can be injured that I'd even THINK
LB> such a think. Wanna bet? ;)
You lose. It did not surprise me.
Unfortunately.
... "I think thou doth protest too much."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 22:05:51
EID:58df 219ab0a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d42
LB> Oh! That's so special, Al! A subtle accusation of him "sucking up" to
LB> the heathens....
AS> Odd. You're the only one who seems to have drawn that conclusion,
AS> including Mike himself.
LB> Odd. As of the moment you wrote the above, you hadn't spoken with
LB> Michael at all on the matter, one way or another. God tell you what
LB> his take on it was?
If He had, it would have been confirmed by Mike's admission of, he didn't
see it until you pointed it out.. But I had had a response from Mike by
then. And Mike means what he says.
LB> Oh, and I've already gotten one comment suggesting it was a bit of
LB> underkill to call it subtle. Your barometer for knowing what everyone
LB> thinks doesn't seem to work so well, Al.
From Richard? ROFL!!! You DO know he has me twitted don't you? So the
first time he saw that line was from YOUR comment...coupled with the
"sucking up". Hardly seeing it without a bias already expressed, is it?
LB> Now, explain to me this....would it be accurate to conclude from this
LB> that, when you point to someone being in some sort of agreement with
LB> you - whether it be a person here, or a literary reference - that to
LB> you, SILENCE on the matter indicates agreement with whatever you are
LB> seeking support for?
Mike, if he were ticked off at me, would SAY so. He didn't. And admits he
didn't even see that until YOU mentioned it...and has later said some more
things in private /msg on #irc.
So, no, it would not be accurate. It would vary from person to person. I
was dealing with Mike, however, and have some small idea of how he
responds.
AS> Not at all. I'm overjoyed that Marilyn, for instance, is speaking to
AS> him again.
LB> Cool. Doubt she had your joy in mind at all. What does that comment
LB> have to do with the statement of mine directly preceeding it?
The "why are you so bitter" type thing? Since I never said or implied
anything of the sort, I didn't feel it deserved comment.
... Half the truth is often a great lie. - Franklin
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:19:54
EID:5133 219a7a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d43
AS> Granted, for you, anyway. I just find it somewhat ironic,
AS> considering some of the words that have been bandied back
AS> and forth here in the past.
MG> I disagreed with Mike before and was not what I would consdier to be
MG> overly unnice to him. I have taken exception to things that atheists
MG> have said here and said so. I notice where some of the other atheists
MG> have done the same thing. Whether you are nice to him or not is not
MG> based on his belief or lack of belief, but how big a twit he is.
MG> I will argue the topic with you or Mike or Lee or anyone else here.
I
MG> will tell them when I think that they are dancing around the point or
MG> whatever. The only time I become unpleasent is when we get morons
MG> like Appleton or Wolff. The conference is not real life, although it
MG> partially mirrors it. Thos of us tht realize this, will be a lot
MG> happier.
Very true, and when you have disagreed with Mike (or myself. or others)
it
has always been on substantive issues.
... I'm not evil, I'm "morally challenged".
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Welcome to the state of TAXES.
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:25:28
EID:ff96 219a7b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32c34d44
ML> A major pain-in-the-ass episode.
AS> It sounds it.
ML> Major League Charles Fox material.
It's amazing how some goverment officials think they are "stimulating" the
economy while stamping out free enterprise.
AS> Mike Hardy works at a paper.
ML> You really need to stop leaving straight lines lying about like
ML> that, Al.
I thougtht I'd give you an opening...
AS> He might have some ideas...and he's back
AS> on the echo, in the agnostic camp.
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very unusual.
ML> Might it be that we're being set up for a grand Hardyesque
ML> jape?
No. Or I can't say for sure, of course, but I trust Mike to tell me the
truth. Perhaps "open-minded agnostic" is too strong a term, even though
it was the title he gave Katherine for his alignment...questioner might
be
closer. But you might ask him yourself.
... You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you freak.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: Upchuck Filet.
|Date: 19 Dec 96 07:55:00
EID:2de2 21933ee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b88454
On 10-08-96 at 15:00, BECKE JONES wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG:
BJ> ML> I'm sure it wasn't, I was just making light of the name. I've
BJ> ML> seen a 60 minutes or other such crapola show about the
BJ> ML> fundymaniacs at Chick Filet (at least I spell the damn thing
BJ> ML> correctly). Start every meeting with a prayer and have a
BJ> ML> general laying on of hands throughout the board meeting. In
BJ> Just brought to mind something very ironic. A friend of mine in NJ works
at
BJ> Chick-Fil-A. Ironic thing is, he's both a heathen and a flaming queen.
;)
BJ> (And very open about both, at that). Hmm...
I remember to boycott Cracker Barrel at *every* possibility due
to their chain-wide policy of terminating the employment of
people whose sexual orientation *is* or *perceived* to be
non-straight.
Rod "...fundymorons there, everyone!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Death is 99 per cent fatal to laboratory rats.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 20 Dec 96 09:26:02
EID:f523 21944b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32b9eb2a
On 07-08-96 at 22:53, DAN CEPPA wrote to JIM STAAL:
DC> KS> Brown Wave: 75,000 piles of shit at a PK meeting.
DC> JS> Such bigoted hatred. You really must do something about that.
DC> We are. That's why we are trying to stop groups like the PK.
I'm the mortal enemy of alt.org.promisekeepers. The PromiseFilth
in that newsgroup don't like dissenting opinion -- to the point
of cancelling my posts...
... which of course end in the TERMINATION of their accounts by
sysadmins, or if the sysadmin of their system *is* them, the
cutting of their link.
Rod "...besides, they're not only anti-women, but
anti-everything-not-male-and-straight-and-Christian" Swift...
* SLMR 2.1 * ASCII and ye shall receive.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Satan a daddy?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 09:31:04
EID:5cb4 21954be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb3dd8
On 11-08-96 at 11:31, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to DON MARTIN:
CD> Are you really a Liberal? Jack Kemp will be just the tonic the
CD> inner cities need.
Probably in the same way gay people would worship the opportunity
for Patrick Bu-kkk-anan to initiate legislative denigration and
genocide should he *ever* win power in elected government?
Rod "...ah, I thought so." Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Never sent a cretin to do a moron's job!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Satan a daddy?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 09:35:06
EID:5cb4 21954c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb3eca
On 11-08-96 at 11:31, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
CD> Poor spelling indicates dropping out of school, or not studying
CD> thoroughly. What is your academic level?
That's an ironic claim, Clayton. Have you been equal and fair in
your treatment and criticised other echo users over a simple
spelling flame? Say, Jimson Staalin? :)
He doesn't even know what erudite means, and claims to be an
"English Major" (generally refers to completion of a college
degree with such course of intense studies completed to the
course requirements, no?)
Of course, as we all know, a cheap spelling flame in use normally
means the accuser is just trying to dodge the question. Cheap
spelling flames are invariably diversionary tactics for those who
find questions too hard to answer.
Rod "...by the way, there were three questions requiring your
answers in this post. Please answer them. :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Treating Aids???
|Date: 21 Dec 96 09:47:08
EID:9194 21954de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb419c
On 11-08-96 at 11:31, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG:
CD> Not only can you not type nor spell accurately, your logic is badly
CD> in need of amendment.
You claim the below is logic? Normally logical examination of
evidence and conclusions that show direct causality.
Example:
1) I hit my finger with a hammer
2) It hurt, so I saw a doctor
3) The doctor could not ascertain if I had injured it
badly
4) The doctor recommended an x-ray
5) I went to a radiologist
6) They took the x-ray
7) They examined and reported that my thumb was broken
8) My thumb was cast at the doctor's office
9) Jesus died for my sins
These statements form a logical set of steps or processes
by simply following them, until step 8. From there, step 9 has
no logical causal relationship.
CD> You're alive. That's all the evidence you get.
Some would conject you are brain-dead, Clayton.
CD> 1. Sex caused it.
CD> 2. Your biological father stuck something someplace.
CD> 3. Sperm swam upstream.
CD> 4. Yo momma's egg embraced it.
CD> 5. You were born with a brain and the will to choose.
CD> 6. God did his part 1996 years ago.
CD> 7. God doesn't care what choice you make and will allow you to go
CD> to Hell with his blessing.
CD> 8. I'm no greater than God. So, go to Hell, with my blessing.
In the process of the creation of Richard's existence, steps 1
through 5 are correct. The claim that the free will in step five
was caused by God (points 6-7) have no causal link to existence,
nor verifiable proof that they happened. Steps 1-5 are clearly
tenable. It is undeniable that Richard is here because of some
form of reproduction.
Step 8 is based on the theoretical belief by *you* that your God
actually exists (unevidenced, of course, to us) and that he is
the correct god (again, unevidenced). We can deny both those
premises on the fact that you've failed (like in #6 and #7) to
prove them.
However, it's more interesting to work within the premise and
parameters you provide. If your God does exist and we "play by
your rules", it would seem that #8 is also a statement of malice.
You should clearly know by the printed doctrine of the Christian
death cult that:
"Judge not, lest you be judged"
This is a general teaching that those who judge should always be
mindful that an unjust judgement by you will be noticed by
others, and they will see that your carelessness in judgement is
applied back against you when you are next judged.
The scripture that you also subscribe to clearly states that one
must "judge a righteous judgement".
It is clear, by not only your judgement against Richard that he
will "go to hell" but also by giving it your blessing, that you
have performed an unjust judgement.
Will you be courageous enough to apologise, Clayton?
Rod "...or will you let your hateful and spiteful judgements and
accusations and comments stand, showing you to be an intolerant
and foolish bigot?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * ASCII stupid question. Get a stupid ANSI!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Dec 96 10:32:10
EID:ea90 21955400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb4c2a
On 08-08-96 at 11:20, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> NO TROUBLE
GM> The new believer was surprised. "Troublemakers? Why would a
GM> Christian be a troublemaker?"
GM> Why, indeed! That man may not yet have had much biblical
GM> training, but he knew one truth for sure: The term Christian
GM> troublemaker is an oxymoron. Those two words shouldn't go
GM> together.
Of course, Christians given government office, or political
power, are indeed troublesome trouble*makers*.
Here's a few examples: Colorado Amendment 2, Oregon Proposition
9, OCA, ICA, Hawaii's Future Today, etc, etc...
GM> NEVER INVITE TROUBLE -
GM> IT ALWAYS ACCEPTS!
Does that mean we should eliminate the troublemaking Christian
death-cultists? Great!
Rod "...kill yourself for Jesus" Swift.
* SLMR 2.1 * C code. C code run. Run code run.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Dec 96 10:34:12
EID:ea90 21955440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb4ca4
On 09-08-96 at 13:06, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:
GM> LOCKED OUT!
GM> As I sat there for several hours, I thought about how dreadful
GM> it will be for all who are "locked out" of heaven for eternity.
GM> IT'S NEVER TOO EARLY TO RECEIVE CHRIST,
GM> BUT AT ANY MOMENT IT COULD BE TOO LATE!
I believe in a God that doesn't require heavy financing.
-- Chevy Chase, "Fletch Lives".
Do you, Mooth?
Rod "... Praise Jesus and pass the chequebook!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream and shout
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:25:16
EID:45ad 21955b20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb589c
On 11-08-96 at 20:14, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
JS> JS> No, I wasn't aware that 'having sex with children, polygamy,
JS> JS> rape, and brainwashing are now considered "Not hurting
JS> JS> anyone".'
JS> RS> Well, you were the one that said that they weren't hurting anyone
. .
JS> RS> . others merely pointed out that they WERE hurting people, and in
JS> RS> these ways.
JS> My point was that Reno or us didn't know that till after the fact.
Bullshit. Many ex-Davidians had reported the acts perpetrated
inside the cult's ranks. There'd even been quite indepth
journalist reports into the cult's activities, the division and
rift that formed that led Vernon Howell to the leadership of the
cult and the ousting of previous cult leaders, etc, etc.
I just thought I'd correct your mistake, Jim.
Rod "...because that's what love does, brother!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:26:18
EID:f6b8 21955b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb58da
On 11-08-96 at 20:18, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
JS> RS> run away, Jimson . . . run away . . .
JS> Don't think so, dude. The head bully in the biker bar I was in this
JS> week bought me a brewski 5 minutes after I walked in, and I didn't
even
JS> have a word with him. Ahhh...sweet respect...
Was it the Blue Oyster bar, perchance?
Rod "... Proc-tooooooooooooooor!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * A paranoid person is someone with all the facts.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:27:20
EID:45ad 21955b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb5918
On 11-08-96 at 20:28, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
JS> RS> You know,
JS> RS> like you guessing that I am overweight and out of shape . . .
JS> You are the one who pointed that out.
You are the one who quoted John 7:24. You know.... "Don't judge
on appearances".
You know what they say about *un*righteous judgement, and
judgement itself?
Rod "...you're going to hell, sinner!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Cause of crash: Inadvertent contact with the ground.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 21 Dec 96 11:29:22
EID:f6b8 21955ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb5992
On 11-08-96 at 20:32, JIM STAAL wrote to LUKE CLARK:
JS> On (01 Aug 96) Luke Clark wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> LC> Marijuana and other substances are illegal.The government has
NO
JS> LC> right whatsoever to tell people what they can and can not put
into
JS> LC> their bodies.
JS> They have the right, but I do agree that the government cannot legislate
JS> morality, and that, inasmuch as it does no harm to someone else, the
JS> country wouldl be better off financially if the drug laws were relaxed
JS> in regards to use and possession.
So you believe that all laws against criminalising the sexual
acts of gay people practiced in private settings should be also
removed?
How about the removal of bans against recognising same-gender
marriages as legally binding unions in civil law? Or will gay
people of religion (and irreligion, who wish civil marriage) be
still denied their religious and/or civil freedoms?
Rod "... hmmm. Interesting!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Cutting remarks don't cut any ice.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Satan a daddy?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 12:05:24
EID:5cb4 219560a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb6204
On 12-08-96 at 12:16, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
CD> RS> To plan, will, and NOT DO is will-depleting,
CD> RS> Richard
CD> RS> Smith
CD> Change your signoff!
Screw you! :)
Rod "... you holier-than-thou piece of shit!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Let's support Less Characters sent in Echoes Year 1993!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Treating Aids???
|Date: 21 Dec 96 12:06:26
EID:9194 219560c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb6242
On 12-08-96 at 12:16, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER:
CD> KS> * OLX 2.2 * If a fundy divorces his wife, is she still his
CD> KS> cousin?
CD> I just don't believe Jesus would use you to speak to me like that!
I just don't believe Jesus would use you to speak to us. In
any way whatsoever!
Rod "...or he must be really desperate to get his message out to
use someone as inept as you to spread His Word! ROFL!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Clayton Davis
|Sub: Treating Aids???
|Date: 21 Dec 96 12:07:28
EID:9194 219560e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb6280
On 12-08-96 at 12:16, CLAYTON DAVIS wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
CD> RS> To plan, will, and NOT DO is will-depleting,
CD> Why, gosh! You're the smartest person who ever talked to me!
That's right. Most intelligent people ignore you.
Rod "...you're worthless. Commit suicide, Clayton, for the sake
of humanity and your god" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Dieting is a time of waist.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Clergy Buggering
|Date: 21 Dec 96 12:42:30
EID:182d 21956540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb6ab6
On 12-08-96 at 17:13, DAN CEPPA wrote to ALL:
DC> From: Peninsula Daily News 8/12/96
DC> Church Wants Gag Order in Molest Case
[snippetty]
DC> The diocese later admitted that McGreal was aslo allegedly a
DC> pedophile. He had been twice to the church's treatment center
DC> for pedophiles in Jemez Springs, NM
DC> [..]
Dan, don't you find it a sad indictment that the church has a
centre set up to deal with pedophiles? Sounds like they have an
awful lot of them...
What sick bastards, these religious types are...
Rod "...meanwhile the victims go on uncompensated by the church
for the loss of their innocence to filthy sexual predators...!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Don't play stupid with me! I'm better at it.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Goodbye /1 02
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:03:32
EID:c143 21957060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb7db4
On 12-08-96 at 23:19, J.J. HITT wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
JH> AS> Neither shall _I_ be pushed arond, bullied, or controlled.
JH> AS> Or silenced, either.
JH> Try universally ignored.
I find it ironic that Al protests so much when we even make
suggestions on how to act ethically -- note *suggest*.
But when he bombastically interferes in the privacy and life of
David R, he claims that he's acting justly and ethically.
The worst thing is that he's posted a few "suck up" messages to
me. Thank goodness I can learn the lesson NOW that he's
dangerous to share personal information with.
Rod "...anyone notice the irony?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Anything free is worth what you pay for it.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Luiz Constantino
|Sub: Re: Holysmoke.
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:14:34
EID:c6e8 219571c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb804a
On 13-08-96 at 12:26, LUIZ CONSTANTINO wrote to CORIDON HENSHAW:
LC> Lesson 1:
LC> "I should have none."
LC> is really spelt
LC> "I should have known."
..."Spelled" is really spelled "spelled".
Rod "...AP style-guide in hand" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Bugger me with a pitch fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Goodbye /2
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:19:36
EID:a317 21957260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb8178
On 13-08-96 at 18:03, JIM STAAL wrote to KEVIN CLAPP:
JS> On (11 Aug 96) Kevin Clapp wrote to DON MARTIN...
JS> KC> it would appear that *SOME* people will do most anything for 'laughs'
JS> KC> and/or 'attention'...
JS> Hello! You rubbed the lamp and here I am, dude!
JS> ... Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. (Eph 5:10)
I never knew the lord was interested in lowest common
denominators :)
Rod "...why is it that Christianity never gets any intelligent
converts?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Goodbye /1 02
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:20:38
EID:6fcd 21957280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb81b6
On 13-08-96 at 18:08, JIM STAAL wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
JS> AS> Ad hominen attacks and lies, Katherine. You disappoint me more
and
JS> AS> more.
JS> Tsk, Al. Even though you have been/are the most mild mannered individual
JS> I have met here (epitomized by your very gracious 'good bye message',
The goodbye might have been gracious, but it was not honest --
and he certainly hasn't learned anything about the value of
privacy and ethics.
JS> I must say you must live on a pink cloud to have let yourself been deluded
JS> by these women. Their general purpose here has been clear to me from
the
JS> beginning: they hate men in general, and Christian men in particular.
They're FEMINAZIS huh?
Rod "...oh, cry me a river, Limbot!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Did you expect mere proof to sway my opinion?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Science or evolution?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:22:40
EID:277e 219572c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb8230
On 13-08-96 at 19:33, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to LAURIE APPLETON:
KS> You ignorant, feeble-minded piece of offal, you are the most
KS> brain-dead asshole I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.
KS> GO FUCK YOURSELF.
The mental picture of that is exciting :)
KS> NOBODY ELSE WOULD LET YOU.
I've offered to stop saving his anal virginity for Jesus. :)
KS> You don't even have the FOGGIEST FUCKING CLUE about ANYTHING in the
KS> United States.
That's right, because he's an ignoramus.
KS> Eat shit and die, you motherfucking prick.
I'd say that's an insult to his mother :) Then again, she's
probably as ashamed of Laurie being her offspring as we are that
he is of the same genus as ourselves.
Rod "...It's called guilt *from* association :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Hot L
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:38:42
EID:f594 219574c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb85f2
On 13-08-96 at 11:47, J.J. HITT wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT:
JH> One final note on our recent discussion of cheap motels:
JH> The place I stayed at in Dallas earlier this year is in the
JH> news today.
JH> They had a fire which killed ten people.
It was the wrath of Jaysus punishin' all those adulteratin'
sinners. FORNICATOOOOOORS!
Rod "...I wonder if Pat Robertson sounded like this when he
redirected that hurricane? :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Idleness is the holiday of fools.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: 2 Cor 2:9 (NKJV) [Our Da
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:41:44
EID:98ed 21957520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb86a8
On 13-08-96 at 17:40, KEN WIENS wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
KW> RS>On Saturday -- that was St. Valentine's Day [1349], they
KW> RS>burnt the Jews on a wooden platform in their cemetary.There were
KW> RS>about two thousand people of them.
KW> I know you have provided a number of examples of acts from
KW> history by those who called themselves christians. Fortunately,
KW> all one has to do is contrast these acts with the biblical
KW> definition of a christian.
Is Pat Robertson a Christian?
Sen Jesse Helms?
Colin Powell?
Flip Benham?
Ralph Reed?
Jerry Falwell?
Ex-Rep Robert K Dornan?
Jack Hoag?
Lou Sheldon?
Phyllis Schlafly?
D James Kennedy?
Please, a concise yes or no, and a reason why if no, thank you.
Rod "...awaiting in anticipation..." Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * All general statements are false.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Homophobia
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:49:46
EID:f5e8 21957620
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb888a
On 12-08-96 at 23:38, ED MILLS wrote to ALL:
EM> Today, on the Dr. Dean Edell radio show, I heard something
that
EM> supports a suspicion I've had for years. It's old hat, the idea
that
EM> homophobia is a manifestation of repressed homosexuality. Everyone's
EM> heard the postulate, but today, some very telling evidence came
to
EM> light at the University of Georgia.
EM> A group of professed heterosexual men was queried as to their
EM> feelings about homosexuality. They were then connected to a "penile
EM> turgidity" measuring instrument - some kind of micrometer connected
to
EM> a computer. They were then made to view gay porn videos while the
EM> instrument monitored their schwantzes for "turgidity."
EM> Guess who got the substantial majority of the hardons during
the
EM> test? The men who professed revulsion for homosexuality, of course!
Those tests were reproduced this week. Heterosexual college-aged
males were classified by reactions to questions -- whether they
had a dislike for gays, whether they wanted to imprison gays, or
have them exterminated, or whether they were ok with gay people, or
supported equality for gay people. They were also asked to
answer questions about their reaction to gays propositioning them
-- violent or not.
They were divided into two groups -- gay-neutral or supportive,
and condemnatory or violently hostile.
All were subjected to video screenings of gay sexual scenes.
Of the neutral or supportive group, 34% of the subjects had an
erectile response to the homosexual videos. Of the violent or
hostile group, 80% of the men had erectile response.
This has further expanded the theory that the people with
*violent* hatred or condemnation of gay people or homosexuality
do so out of fear that they could possibly be gay.
Rod "... interesting result, no?" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * You're so unhip it's a wonder your bum doesn't fall off!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:06:48
EID:fa3a 219578c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb8c88
On 13-08-96 at 18:50, DAN CEPPA wrote to RICHARD SMITH:
DC> There should be 2 other messages from me in this packet based on
DC> his "xian lovingness" about the 'gooks' in Viet Nam. One to
DC> him directly and another based on that to ALL.
DC> This fucking bastard hides behind his cloak of xianity. He
DC> decries, "Bad fumes!", "Not what I said", "I'm trying to be
DC> good!"
DC> Thing is, they buy it and excuse his personal belief in a
DC> "personal saviour" and let the piece of shit continue to
DC> be the bigoted asshole that he is.
DC> To me, his actions are unpardonable with his attitude
DC> after the fact. There is nothing evident that he as a
DC> brain, let alone a single working brain cell.
DC> As it stands, I'd like to see a show of hands from the Xian
DC> camp that support him. Well, Jesse, are you going to join
DC> in on this? What about you. Mikey. Or, Al, your back now...
DC> Care to comment?
Maybe if they all come on board and support Jimbot here, we can
get Jimbot to say other racially-incorrect words like:
spic negro jap wog
coon nigger chink slanteye
kraut eyetie frog etc, etc, etc
Rod "Remember, cyberbear loves you! He's your online personal
pal at: http://www.thecorporation.com/archive/archive.html" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * C programmer run, C programmer crash, C programmer quit.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Goodbye /2 02
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:16:50
EID:bf9a 21957a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb8ee2
On 13-08-96 at 08:28, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT:
RS> JS> I just am marveling over seeing the reaction to 'h' word
RS> JS> being on the other foot. Ahhh....
RS> . . . it is a good mouse, George, a very good mouse. Not as good as
RS> rabbits, though. I like ketchup with my beans. When are we gonna
get
RS> the rabbits again, George? Uh, George? Can I take care of the
RS> rabbits?
Imagine what Jim will be like when he discovers his penis, Richard:
... Huh, George, can I pull it again George? When
are we going to be pulling them again, George? Uh,
George? Can I pull it now?
Rod "...one day he might get around to dick-scovering it" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Satan a daddy?
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:18:52
EID:efaa 21957a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb8f5c
On 13-08-96 at 08:39, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER:
RS> JH> I've said it before, and I'll say it again.....
RS> JH> What the hell are you on?
RS> KS> Definitely not his rocker...
RS> I think it's spanish fly. Fercryingoutloud, keep him away from me .
. . };)
RS> It's nice to be asked, but Holey Moley, I'm straight . . .
Damn..!!!!!! :)
Rod "...and it was such a fatal attraction for a while :) And I
mean that in a full motion, pictorial, cinematic sense" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Expert: Anyone from out of town.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:29:54
EID:d536 21957ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb91f2
On 13-08-96 at 00:06, AL SCHROEDER wrote to MARILYN BURGE:
AS> Do I want them to live in pain? No. But given the advances made in
the
AS> last ten years in AIDS treatment, it seems an odd time to give up.
Would I
AS> advise them to...if possible...hang on for as much as they can stand,
to
AS> see if a cure would be developed? Yes. And that line differs for each
AS> person. Do I want them to live in constant pain? No. Do I think there
is
AS> such a point? Yes. Do I urge caution before making a decision that
is
AS> irrevocable?
AS> Yes.
AS> It would be awful to have someone commit suicide because they were
AIDS
AS> positive, and for their lover, or sibling, or whatever to hear of an
AIDS
AS> cure the next year...a year which many AIDS patients endure.
This melodramatic clap-trap still does not validate the fact that
you deprived David of his LIBERTIES of choice and control over
his own affairs.
Your interference meant you played god with another person's
life, and now the lives of a number of people. You have lost all
respect earned in the views of others because of your unethical
behaviour.
If you had done this same thing to me, I would be castigating you
further than I am now.
What right did you have to play God? What right did you have for
YOUR choices to override David's choices? What right did you
have to usurp David's decisions and choices and institute your
own?
What right did you have in telling others about David, rather
than David doing it on his own time, and in his own way -- if
necessary at all?
Now, after answering all those questions, reanswer them
substituting "RESPONSIBILITY" for "RIGHT"
You will find you are NOT responsible for David's life,
happiness, or choices. Ergo, you should not override them.
Your actions are an insult to all other humans who value their
freedom, Al.
Rod "... if you'd abused my freedoms and choices the way you have
done with David, I'd not be wanting to commit suicide anymore,
but retribution..." Swift :(
* SLMR 2.1 * To every exception there is a rule.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Dragonfest 1996
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:37:56
EID:8573 21957ca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb93d4
On 14-08-96 at 11:39, DAVID RICE wrote to ALL:
[...lotsa snippety snip... bobbitt here and there...]
DR> Then I ran into Gwenny the Pooh, which surprised her---
DR> she had not expected me to be there. At all three times we
DR> met during the festival, she asked me "Have you met my
DR> husband?" Goddess, how many hundreds of women have asked
DR> me that very same question?! When she asked me where my
DR> tent was I gave her a decoy location. Tee hee. (I can
DR> imagine some innocent couple being surprised late at night
DR> by Gwenny stealthily entering their tent looking for
DR> me....)
This sounded like a real fun event. Something my paganistic
partner might like to attend, if given the opportunity. Hey, and
hell, I'll attend if it helps me attune :)
Rod "...so why the Gwenny diversion??? :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * The only rose without thorns is friendship.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: the promise keepers
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:41:58
EID:d4bd 21957d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb94c6
On 14-08-96 at 15:47, RYAN SHAW wrote to ALL:
[...a letter about the promisefilth from...]
RS> JACK T. SANDERS
RS> Eugene
RS> /---/
RS> reprinted without permission of course. fuck 'em.
RS> /---/
RS> the author of the letter states that we need to investigate this thing.
RS> forget about that, it *already* stinks of corruption, not
RS> to mention the flagrant use of mind control to urge people
RS> to donate money. from what i read in the paper huge
RS> buckets were passed around at the end of the last day of
RS> the crusade for donations. this is in *addition* to the
RS> $60 fee, a fee that was slightly too steep for this poor
RS> college student. otherwise i would have been there --- to
RS> do some investigation of my own.
Ryan:
Get on the usenet newsgroups and seek alt.org.promisekeepers.
When you get there, tell them that godless heathen Rod Swift sent
you, and ask them to give you the same offer as they did me -- a
free ticket.
Tell them it's their Christian charitable responsibility to
provide you with 2 tickets, and airfares, to a Promisekeeper's
conference in .
When they don't offer to do it, call them "pathetic, false
Christians only seeking to make money out of people, rather than
bring people to Christ".
You may get 2 tickets and some free flights :)
Rod "... always helpful..." Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sam
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:46:00
EID:44a5 21957dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb95b8
On 14-08-96 at 23:36, SAM wrote to GRAYHAWK:
SA> G> Jesus, like Elvis, is dead and buried and rotting in the basement...
SA> The question is:
SA> Who's basement?
Regis Philbin's...
Regis had liberated Elvis from Kathy Lee's basement, where he was
working on her new fall line :)
Rod "...can anyone spell 'Kathy Lee Paradise'? :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * D.A.M.: Mothers Against Dyslexia.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: A God
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:50:02
EID:adca 21957e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb96aa
On 12-08-96 at 07:26, SUE ARMSTRONG wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG:
SA> ... Baldrick, how did you get so much custard out of such a small cat?
I have this as a .wav file....!
Want it, Sue???
Rod "... let's trade on IRC! :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * An oyster is a fish built like a nut.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Scanner
|Date: 21 Dec 96 15:53:04
EID:54ea 21957ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb9760
On 14-08-96 at 20:50, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ALL:
MB> Does somebody out there has a really high-quality scanner?
I have access to one.
MB> If so, I have an ICR tract that I'm dying to have scanned
MB> so it can be added to the HOLYSMOKE homepage. This tract
MB> is just too, too precious! Unfortunately, all I have is a
MB> machine copy of the original, so the better quality scanner
MB> we use, the better. The illustration on the front page of
MB> the tract is the best part of all. In essence, it blames
MB> humanism for abortion, pediphilia, assisted suicide, porn,
MB> and every other conceivable "evil" our culture enjoys. Ya
MB> gotta love those ever-lovin' Christers. They're a laugh a
MB> minute -- especially when the find an "enemy" they can pin
MB> every evil on, the same as they try to find a one-note
MB> "cure" for all those same evils (finding ghod, of course).
If you want to send it this way, you can. I suggest sending a
copy, not the original, or vice versa...
Rod "... you know US SNAIL... :(" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * He's your God, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Imagine
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:13:06
EID:19d2 219581a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bb9c12
On 14-08-96 at 17:47, DAN CEPPA wrote to JESSE JONES:
DC> Without your little book to tell you what to do, you can't even
DC> go to the bathroom in the correct manner. (Yes, Jesse, it's there.)
DC> Most likely you "sin" each and every time you defecate, especially
DC> on the Sabbath, perhaps not on the Sunday that you hold to be the
DC> 'correct' day of worhip.
Now, how many miles must we run away from the city and dig a
hole, again? :) :)
DC> Be ever so proud of turning off your mind to be a slave to your
DC> religion. It's the only way you think that you must be a slave
DC> to do good deeds.
*Rod puts on a plastic smile and beams widely*
Don't ask questions, convert, just PRAISE JESUS!
Rod "...ugh. Christian right-winger types are so fucked up,
Dan!" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Yahweh sent me some
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:34:08
EID:1ffa 21958440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba100
On 15-08-96 at 11:37, J.J. HITT wrote to JASON HARMON:
JH> (I've been busy with watching the Republican Variety Hour and
JH> haven't yet read the material I got in the mail.)
There's variety among Re-pubic-cants? I thought they were all
proudly white, straight, and womanhating :) And they like
porkbarelling big business with corporate welfare :) :)
God forbid that they let the Log Cabin Republi-can'ts speak :)
Rod "...big tent, my ass!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:41:10
EID:8a8f 21958520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba2a6
On 15-08-96 at 18:02, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVID RICE:
JS> DR> 4) Was "Agent Orange" the tool of "heros" or
JS> DR> evil, demonic, don't-care-whom-we-kill-with-
JS> DR> lingering-misery asshole bastards who consider
JS> DR> life a cheap comodity in return for economic
JS> DR> gains? If so, what makes you believe so?
JS> Agent Orange was a defoiliant, not an anti-personal weapon.
Isn't fire a defoliant? Use that :)
Are you willing to admit that Agent Orange was used for more
destructive purposes such as enemy anti-personnel attacks?
Then again, this is exactly the sort of stuff that makes me think
you're head isn't filled with brain cells. In fact...
Rod "... I can't believe that it *IS* butter" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * An unemployed court jester is no one's fool.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Goodbye /1
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:42:12
EID:891b 21958540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba2e4
On 15-08-96 at 18:10, JIM STAAL wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
JS> I can dig it. I have found that enduring 'Staal bashing' is second
JS> nature by now. :)
Since you so generously request it...
JS> ... Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but it hurts when I insert
'em.
Didn't your mother tell you they were good for haemorrhoids?
Start shoving away... Trust me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)
Rod "...*evil grin*..." Swift.
* SLMR 2.1 * Roses are red, violets smell nice - Poet without a clue.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: My Rummer Weekend
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:47:14
EID:7f74 219585e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba412
On 15-08-96 at 12:05, MARTY LEIPZIG wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ:
ML> ... Just exactly how much 'Whiz' is in Cheese Whiz?
How much cheese is in there, for gawdsake?
Rod "... I don't know!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * To be or not to be. Ever think about that?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Believer
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:52:16
EID:0176 21958680
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba540
On 16-08-96 at 06:12, MARTY LEIPZIG wrote to DAN CEPPA:
ML> ... Jesus saves, Moses invests, the Bagwhan spends and the Mongol hordes
Ugh, the Bagwhan. What a bastard... He and his little orangie
cult tried to take over the South West of Western Australia, before
the locals kicked him and his bitch-offsider Mah Sheela out.
Rod "... Rajneeshies are NOT popular around WA :)" Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Click. Click. Click. Damn... Out of taglines!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 21 Dec 96 16:59:18
EID:b68d 21958760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba6e6
On 15-08-96 at 21:19, MARILYN BURGE wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
MB> Who are you to think that your judgment is so superior to somebody
MB> else's? I thought Christians were supposed to be humble. You might
MB> try it sometime.
He was playing god. Pure and simple. He was wrong.
MB> And, in closing, if you EVER relay anything I say on this echo to
MB> ANY person I know, no matter how noble you may think you are being,
MB> I'll do everything I can to make the rest of your life a living
MB> hell. Understand? I certainly hope so, for your sake.
A-fucking-men, and same from me! I feel saddened because you
other holysmokers have probably shared things with Al that are
sensitive in nature. I have been luckily spared from that fate.
Until Al learns ethical behaviour, the abuse of people's privacy
by his bombastic squeals of Christian righteousness will
invariably wreck any trust we have ever had in him having ethical
and moral behaviour.
Rod "...I will not be having any conversations with Al of a
personal nature at all..." Swift
* SLMR 2.1 * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:11:20
EID:bb9e 21958960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bba9b8
On 16-08-96 at 07:58, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to JIM STAAL:
KS> JS>Thank you. Basically, it consists of visiting a discusting place
(the
KS> JS>police station), getting a form, researching the court dockets of
1978
KS> Ah. The police station is a disgusting place.
KS> But you hang out in biker bars.
KS> Figures.
You have a better chance of getting some rough 'n' ready sex from
the Blue Oyster bar than the local cop shop :) :)
Rod "...I left my heart in San Francisco." Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * If it stinks, it's chemistry.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: satanism
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:18:22
EID:8193 21958a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bbab5e
On 16-08-96 at 09:25, GLEN TODD wrote to KEN WIENS:
GT> ... "Oh, bother", said Pooh, as the BATF destroyed his honey pot.
No no no!!!
Staal will tell you that it was that EEEVIL FEMINAZI Janet Reno
who destroyed Pooh's honeypot!!!!
Rod "...ROFLing" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * Cause of crash: Inadvertent contact with the ground.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 21 Dec 96 17:35:24
EID:edb4 21958c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32bbaf5c
On 16-08-96 at 13:40, JIM STAAL wrote to RYAN SHAW:
JS> JS> JS> You were in Vietnam?
JS> JS> DC> If he was, it was _Viet Nam_, "English Major".
JS> KS> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook, eh?
JS> KS> You really are an asshole.
JS> JS> You really get to be at a loss for words, don't you?
JS> rs> he's right, you racist asshole.
JS> Racist? In what manner?
Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word "gook"
as you have used it above?
Did you use it as a perjorative against people of Asian ethnicity?
If you did, you're a racist asshole :)
If you did NOT, please do tell us how you did mean to use it! :)
Rod "...and in answerin' the question: no stallin' Staalin!" Swift :)
* SLMR 2.1 * If it isn't broken, then fix it anyway!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Jack Kinney
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Billy "Liar" Wolff
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:18:23
EID:c0e8 219a7a40
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c29753
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72a9aada
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
25 Dec 96 13:08, quoting Martin Goldberg to ALL:
MG> Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
He seems perfectly normal to me.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:56:12
EID:1fcc 219a9f00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 c75e8532
On (22 Dec 96) Andrew Masten got back to Karen Davis...
AM> asked the Father to forgive them of the particular sin of
AM> crucifying Him.
KD> How could it have been a sin if it was what God wanted?
AM> What God wanted was to buy back the human race, not the death of
Why'd he sell the human race in the first place? Did he make
a prophet the first time around?
AM> His Son via the torture of crucifixtion. This is the crux of the
AM> gospel.. that God so loved the world that He was willing to give
AM> His only Son that whosoever should believe in Him should not
What do you mean, "give". He got him right back. Try understanding
what the word 'sacrifice' means.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:56:39
EID:1976 219a9f00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 81cc21cd
On (22 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to Dan Ceppa...
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
SH> Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone
SH> need a liver?"
SH> The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the
SH> universe and everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
SH> Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when
SH> Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random
SH> Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration
SH> Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the
SH> Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the
So, you believe a bunch of silly things. Now, provide evidence that
any of them is factual.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:57:09
EID:3460 219a9f20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 9d871635
On (24 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to David Worrell...
ML> Yeah, but squirrel pelts and loads of empty beer cans are
ML> not considered legal tender.
DW> They are if you're a resident of the abovementioned states.
ML> Damn, by that standard, Staal's a fucking tycoon.
Marty, you mispelled 'buffoon'.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Catastrophism (b)
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:57:35
EID:9031 219a9f20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3e9ccd92
On (22 Dec 96) John Musselwhite got back to Laurie Appleton...
JM> I've been to the Grand Canyon, Laurie... I've even taken a leak
JM> off the edge and watched it fly a mile down. The USGS geologist
Yes, but is it in your free will to be able to piss one mile up?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Darrow Nonsense (b)
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:58:05
EID:2d26 219a9f40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 b99284fa
On (24 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> You know nothing of the reason for the trial and why
DC> Darrow was there in the first place.
LA> Well, just let us suppose you are right, just for fun. So
Just as usual, let's assume you wrong.
LA> Darrow argue strongly for BALANCED TREATMENT or was he
LA> arguing for evolution ONLY to be taught?
He was arguing for the one thing you can't provide: Testible
evidence that evolution exists as compared with dogmatic
scripture.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Das Uber Noel
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:58:32
EID:6577 219a9f40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 04964154
On (19 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to ALL...
RS> PREACHER THREATENS BOYCOTT: MERRY ''CHRISTMAS'' -- OR ELSE!
I'd term it 'RC', but that may get confused with 'RCC'. Any
other suggestions?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:58:57
EID:b311 219a9f40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 d612dbb7
On (21 Dec 96) Chris Green got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> animals in the last 100 yrs or so that is beginning to make
DC> the Dinosaur Extinction pale in comparison.
CG> How do you think that nature will compensate for this population
CG> imbalance?
Your the MESA member. You figure it out.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:59:23
EID:e16b 219a9f60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 7eb8518b
On (22 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa...
SQ> DC>> exists, let alone the one that you think enslaves you?
SQ> JJ>> Outside of your robotic "show me" mantra, do you have anything
SQ> JJ>> to contribute to this conversation?
SQ> Typical Fundamentalist Christian tactics: Answer those tough
SQ> questions with ad hominems.
That, and answer it with another question. He thinks that nobody
notices his evasionary tactics.
JJ> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist.
SQ> who set themselves up as judges of morality and good works, using
SQ> "God" as an excuse.
The only problem there is Jesse thinks that his version of what
a good work is is the definitive of the term.
JJ> Can you prove to me that evidence is required for God to exist?
SQ> tree to make noise when it falls in the forest? For a guy who whines
SQ> about "stupid questions," he sure poses some howlers.
"That's not a stupid question! It's about GOD[sic]!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Holiday Wishes: [1]
|Date: 26 Dec 96 19:59:53
EID:34bc 219a9f60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 022782d1
On (25 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to ALL...
RS> Well everyone, it's that day. Today we celebrate a
RS> holiday which is the birth date of a man born of a virgin,
RS> with lowly shepherds in attendance. He was a man known as
[..]
RS> will go to paradise forever. That's right, today is THE
RS> Taurobolia in which we celebrate the Messiah Mithra. {A}
Great list and great myths! Wonder if the fundys will bother
to do the research to realize the origin of their godling myth?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: I got my Xmas wish! [1]
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:00:24
EID:5c73 219aa000
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 607c072a
On (23 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
RS> jj> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the
RS> jj> "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year.
RS> DC> Does that mean we are the Great Satan and John is the
RS> DC> Ayotollah?
RS> Could be. Whose turn is it to wear the turban and be the
RS> Great Satan . . . yours?
Nahhh. I don't wear hats, except when skiing or sailing.
jj> this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or
DC> into play. After all, they can't afford to debate what
DC> doesn't exist.
RS> Now let's stand back and check their pockets for silverware
RS> as they file out . . .
We could check them for brains, but we'd never find one.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:00:49
EID:0a97 219aa000
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 ba209c1e
On (24 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to ALL...
ML> Chris Green, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
ML> karate and will soon be impressing us all with his abnormal IQ.
If he responds to all the "400 personal messages a day", he'll make
Al Schoeder look like all of Al's fingers are broken and Al's
responding by typing with his nose, broken as well, of course.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Losing Faith in Faith
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:01:14
EID:fb7c 219aa020
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32679d4f
On (22 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to All...
RC> "Because if it were not for the moral restraints of the Bible, I
RC> would be a wild animal, stealing, raping and murdering," he
Makes you wonder if we do need the bible for a while and sound plan
for sterilizing those that avidly follow its tenets...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:01:42
EID:6465 219aa020
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 6579c88e
On (25 Dec 96) J.J. Hitt got back to Dan Ceppa...
JH> JH>> The following is from the Protevangelion of James, an
DC> and/or the groups that used that as their ever-changing
DC> bible?
JH> I've been meaning to look it up, myself. The notes in The Lost Books
JH> of the Bible were writen by the 18th century compiler and are less
A shame.. If you run across any additional info, do let us
all know.
JH> convincing. However it seems to have been in common use in both
JH> the Greek and Latin Church until the Nicean Council when it got
Is that via the same source, or are there other sources that
show that to be true?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:02:06
EID:e677 219aa040
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 fb2a956c
On (21 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> It's getting to the point that there is nothing that he could
DC> possibly be responsible for, except Jesse Jone's belief in him.
AS> And the universe itself existing.
Bought into John Brawley's "proof", I see.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:02:36
EID:e967 219aa040
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 1ba5fa70
On (22 Dec 96) Lynda Bustilloz got back to Dan Ceppa...
LB> Brett and Dan were killing time yakking about Xstians v Sinners =
CG> If Sinners are no longer human, then it must be OK to shoot them?
BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
LB> ;)
Don't thank me! It was Brett that came up with the original
scenario. I only took it to it's logical conclusion. Whether
he understands it still remains to be seen.
Care to bet that he says, "God is not constrained by logic"?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:03:02
EID:6792 219aa060
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 68748c36
On (25 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Lynda Bustilloz...
BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
RS> DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
RS> Now, does Yahveh go to Hell for his sins?
If he does, he should. After all, he allowed Hell to be
created. It's his universe and he should play by the
rules.
As it is, he has a bad habit of throwing temper tantrums like
a 3 yr old and crying when he doesn't understand even basic
science.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: equal rights
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:28:00
EID:392f 219a5380
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0b6f4b64
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a msg of , Marty Leipzig wrote you:
MG>> I bet he lets them smoke mexican cigars there.
ML> Of course, of course. But, to his detriment, he also holds
ML> bimonthly "scotch tastings".
This reminds me. I was bored at my aunt's house yesterday, and picked up
a copy of Food & Wine. I noticed a sidebar to an article about entertaining.
The sidebar dealt with avoiding hangovers. It seems that bourbon has the
highest content of "congoners" (I may not have spelled that right) of any
liquor made. Congoners are one of the substances that make hangovers so
unpleasant.
You almost have to pity the bourbon drinkers, don't you?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: truth
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:35:00
EID:774d 219a5460
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0b75b46b
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa52d
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to ROBERT CURRY you wrote:
RC>> We must apply the Washcloth of Truth to the dirt
RC>> smudge which the False Worrell Scum tries to pass off
RC>> as a beard.
GtP> It won't help. He still won't be able to get a girl with
GtP> his attitudes.
Shit. You mean Kerri is a female impersonator? I hate it when that happens.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:38:00
EID:8475 219a54c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 0b789af0
PID: SemPoint 2.25 UNREG
In a message to Chris Green you wrote:
CG>> Though thinking about it, anything missing the
CG>> Missippi Delta would tend to follow the coastal
CG>> plain.
ML> That's "Mississippi", Herr Mensa.
Unless, of course, he is actually from Mississippi. Then he spelled it like
most Mississippians pronounce it.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Torpedo Room (1:123/67.7)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: not believing
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:23:38
EID:1dcf 219a4ae0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 613868b6
REPLY: 1:3603/210 0e1aa3a8
On 22 Dec 96, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> with: Shelby Sherman
RC> SS>> How is _not_ believing a form of belief?
AM> I haven't figured that part out yet.
SS> Well, let me help you out then. It's NOT. It's like saying
SS> that bald is a hair color or that _not_ drinking is a degree
SS> of alcoholism.
JB> ......Is "zero" a "number?"
RC> Sure, but it's neither positive nor negative.
Then zero drinking is a degree of drinking, neither positive nor
negative.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Atheism: Company on strike; Music and Lyrics not available.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:28:52
EID:7191 219a4b80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 38856dee
On 23 Dec 96, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Al Schroeder <=-
JB> and which is not completely "subjective." Don't ask God to do what
He
JB> either cannot, or has not ever been observed doing. Gross physical
JB> "Miracles" don't happen; but "Providence" may 'happen all the time.'
JB> (You're merely "empiricizing Providence" with this "test for God.")
JB> (By the way, DON'T _miss_ your appointment....) (*grin*)
JB> Comments?
RH> Ok, I'll play. "God, let me win the Colorado lottery on the first
RH> drawing in February, 1997". Odds, 1 in about 6,000,000. And I -will-
RH> buy a ticket for that drawing.
Not valid. The lottery is dependent on a single complex event taking
a few seconds, and using rather massive objects. Think about it: I anm
assuming that your lottery, like Missouri's uses ping-pong balls with
numbers on them, tumbling randomly about in a drum of some sort. At
some specific point, a little door is opened and balls begin to fall
out. (If this is not correct, please submit the CO Lottery Commission's
number-selection method for examination.)
A) There is way too much mass tumbling about --a single quantum event in
_six_ of the ball's physics is nowhere _near_ enough to "force" the
balls with your numbers on them, to be the ones that fall out, and
B) Not enough time.
Moreover, your motivation is not 100% merely to have the "sign"; you mix
it with a world-changing motivation. (You, winning the lottery, is
bound to have a not inconsiderable effect on those who come into contact
with you subsequently.
As I tried to make clear in my "test for God," what you "ask for" is a
"proving event" or a "probability of God existing improving event," not
either a get-rich-quick event or an event that has too much mass/energy
(to be radically affected by minor quantum adjustments), or not enough
Chaos-theory 'initial conditions' character.
Now compare: suppose instead you asked for a wild animal to display
anomalous behaviour within a few moments' window of time, six or eight
months in advance. In this case, say, if the animal was a mouse, "God"
would have BOTH the time (growth of animal brain) AND the chance to use
the least-possible quantum adjustment. (Say, the mouse has its genetic
makeup altered, by being conceived before you arrive, but after you've
asked. Perhaps the effect could be arranged by genetically, using only
one minor mutation, reducing the animal's instinctive "fear of man"
component.)
Do you see? Do not, like George Rudzinski, ask for something that is
NOT consistent with the Quantum God Hypothesis being tested. Your
example is not consistent with it. It is in the right _direction_
(you're not asking for a mountain to move), but if you'll think about
it, the quantum probability involved with that much simple-part, highly
motion-complex, massive (from the quantum level's perspective) motion-
control is not consistent with the hypothesis being tested.
Make another, more direct comparison:
A) Six ping-pong balls in a field of forty or so, being slammed and
banged about by very high-energy (compared to the quantum level)
_physics_ forces, in a small space, which slamming and banging starts at
'x' time and ends at 'x-plus-fifteen' (seconds') time.
B) Six ping-pong balls in space, falling gradually toward the earth from
out near the orbit of Jupiter, with nothing but the occasional dust
particle or gross gentle magnetic field acting on them.
A1) Six ping-pong balls, each of whose trajectories within the little
cage at any one point in time (the fifteen-second window) is radically
changed --perhaps even stopped and reversed-- by the slamming and
banging --impacts perhaps measureable in terms of watts or milliwatts.
B1) Six ping-pong balls whose trajectories, if adjusted by an impact so
slight as to be _unmeasurable_ at the location of impact, and making use
of energies below the level of detectability (one photon's-worth, say),
might, over the time and distance of their travel, show a deviation from
the former line-of-flight of perhaps a matter of whole degrees. (Over
tens of millions of miles, a crosswise impact of unmeasurable energy can
result in a large deviation in arrival point....)
This is the difference between you asking for control over which Lottery
balls fal when, and _my_ example, of a meteorite occurring at the
appointed moment six months in the future. The difference, in terms of
quantum _possibility_, is obviously major, eh?
(Lastly, recall that we're _not_ testing some sort of "God can do
ANYTHING" hypothesis; in the Quantum God Hypothesis being tested, God
can NOT do "just anything"; He is limited to what the hypothesis
permits, which is delicate, initial-conditions, quantum adjustability
and the _time_period_ for the adjustment (plus others like it) to result
in a manipulable event whose completion-timing coincides with the
"appointment" you made.)
RH> Put in a good word for me, John, and I'll cut you in.
Words have nothing to do with it. I don't need more of this kind of
"positively correlated coincidence ("providence") demonstration";
perhaps you do. (IOW, it ain't between "me and you and the QG," it's
between "_you_ and the QG." A private moment, for purposes of
increasing your ability to believe that the Universe is intelligent and
self-aware. (_It_ stands to gain, as well: if you're more likely to
"believe in it," you'll be more likely to _assist_ it, to get done
[whatever-it-is that It wants done] in the long run.)
Keep the experiment simple, with the least number of variables. _I_
would be an added variable.
I also don't _need_ the money. More money's always nice, but it has
lost its temptation for me, since I don't actually _need_ it. (I live
at or near poverty level, "comfortable" with my station and aware of the
nastiness that Greed can cause.) I have _just_enough_, from my
investments and limited investment acumen, that I can't be tempted with
offers of more.
(By the way, the "meteorite" example is used not only because it is
consistent with the Hypothesis' conditions, but also because it once
_worked_ for _me_. My "appointment," made in early summer, was for a
meteorite at 12 midnight on the Midwinter solstice at Eureka (MO). It
was damn cold that night, and I did NOT want to go up on that
mountainside, but I did, and within a few minutes of midnight (I did not
have my watch, but knew how long it usually took me to get up there)
there was a large, bright yellow-green meteorite trail (covering about
ten or twelve moons-widths) that went from East to West.)
Point: the less physics-violating you ask for, the more likely the event
you ask for and its timing accuracy; and the _timing_ accuracy is the
issue, not the quality or exact nature of the event.
Peace.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Find God? Why? Is he missing?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Re: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:43:10
EID:168f 2198ad60
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 d1c7415f
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bf90eb
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Gwenny utter:
GtP> Ahhh, Zoloft is WONDERFUL. I took it for awhile. Lost 60 pounds,
GtP> loved the world, and lost all interest in sex .
It seems to be working for me so far. It seems to make my muscles really
tense, though - even more so than normal.
GtP> I'm sure you do. The most important thing is to just be yourself.
GtP> The right girl will find you. TRUST me.
Yeah, maybe, but how can I tell if I've been "found"? I'm an expert at
missing signals for stuff like that. Unless nobody really has been interested
in me enough to use signals like that.
... Line dancing makes napalm cost effective.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
SEEN-BY: 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/2
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 358/1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:45:16
EID:17ad 2198ada0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 e7136285
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c05330
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Al utter:
AS> BTW, have a happy whatever-you-have-at-this-season-of-the-year.
YAK SHAVING DAY!!! YAK SHAVING DAY!!! :)
Although, today, I have to work. I recently got a new job as a security
guard. Sure beats the hell out of slinging pizza! Today, though, I have
an 8
hour shift, but at least I get paid overtime.
... That? That is just a roll of quarters in my pocket.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
SEEN-BY: 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/2
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: 'Atheists who do no good
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:48:40
EID:157e 2198ae00
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 c2826d56
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D437F
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Michael utter:
MH> I have a free one ... good people do good things, bad people do bad
MH> things ... no matter what religion they profess to follow, and no
MH> matter if they believe in no god.
I could tell Jesse about something I recently did, but he'd probably just
claim that I'm not a "real, true atheist".
... "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh "BOB" D'lyeh Wgah'nagl Dhobbz f'htagn."
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: False Christian Scum
|Date: 24 Dec 96 21:55:46
EID:78b8 2198aee0
PID: SX 4.3P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 542f46b0
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c05331
TID: GE/32 1.2
While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Al utter:
AS> She's on #irc. She tried to post her version of things, but the
AS> server's down for her BBS.
It appears that she's back on Holysmoke. I did apologize to her for making
such a hasty judgement, but I'm probably going to end up pissing off both
her
and Sean. :(
... Better to have a bleeding heart than to have no heart at all.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin: The TERMINAL BBS (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: quote file
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:00
EID:44f4 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60dee
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: David Worrell
FR> ~*~ yet the Resus monkey can hold a conversation in English
FR> once his vocal cords are alterd - Dan Lafferty
DW> I love your quote file. Damn near each message packet brings
DW> back silly assed shit like the above that I had completely
DW> forgotten about.
Hear, hear!
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:01
EID:dee2 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60def
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Judith Bandsma
JB>> What the hell are sponge cats? Never heard of them.
SH>> Answer the question, fascist.
JB> 1) I don't know why you keep calling me a fascist. Oh well,
JB> I must be doing something right. There's another one here
JB> who calls me a LIBERAL.
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
Hardly. She made a perfectly reasonable inquiry. It's silly for
you to demand that she answer your question about "sponge cats"
(whatever those might be) before you explain what you mean by
the phrase. So just what are sponge cats? Hmmm?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Rant Wars
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:02
EID:9771 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60df0
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Doug Lee
DL>> I have never seen such a display of self-lothing in my
DL>> entire life.
SM>> And recognition of the FACT that other human beings are
SM>> inherently malicious,
RC> Do you see yourself as also inherently malicious,
SM> You bet your Goatdamned ass I do!!
And your present goal in life is what? To ensure that everyone who
reads this echo will eventually come to that same conclusion?
Are you really in the same state of mind as Brother Jesse?
SM> It took me YEARS of ass-busting effort to master the necessary
SM> skills to keep it out of my day-to-day dealings. And it yet
SM> takes me continuous conscious effort, day in and day out, year
SM> in and year out, day and night, so to do.
At least HolySmoke allows you an outlet to vent your bile in a setting
where it is more appropriate.
SM> If you are a member of EITHER class of people, count yourself
SM> FUCKING lucky and invest in lotto tickets regularly!! :-)
I have no idea what "classes" of people you mean.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:03
EID:432f 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60df1
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Jesse Jones
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
AS> Thanks, mine could use all the prayer I can get.
Would you like ME to pray for you, too?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:04
EID:581b 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60df2
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> You don't think the universe as a whole is electrically neutral?
RC> I wonder how you would propose to actually measure any net
RC> electrical charge for the entire cosmos, Al.
AS> By the actions of the cosmos.
Specifically, how?
RC> a state of equilibrium is quite natural.
AS> Between matter and antimatter? Nope.
It would appear that you misunderstand the meaning of the phrase
"state of equilibrium." It does not mean "equal amounts."
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- InterMail+GE/2+PCB/2
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:05
EID:78b3 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60df3
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Nothing you said would affect my standard policy towards junk email.
AS> That you initiated,
Oh, that must have been when I took over your internet account and sent
junk email to myself in your name.
AS> after I reposted what you had missed in Fido?
"Reposted?" That signifies posting again in the echo. What you did was
to send junk email (via the Internet), a different procedure altogether.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: Cu> Replies to your excessively babbling examples of logical
: Cu> fallacies have been posted to HOLYSMOKE, where they belong.
:
: Good. So have mine. Where you will be caught in a contradiction
: of your own words.
RC> Are you now trying to say that you seriously expected that
RC> my replies would not quote extensively from your emailed
RC> bullshit, Al?
AS> Certainly.
Then you clearly were not paying attention. Tough shit for you, eh?
AS> We were discussing, among other things, the Fido posts.
Untrue -- remember, Al, that I have the entire exchange saved in
my junkmail folder for ready reference.
AS> So unless you think you can show an example where _I_ sent
AS> responses to the email onto the echo, what you yourself quoted
AS> refutes you.
What *exactly* do you imagine it supposedly refutes, Al?
AS>> I did say it was okay to post in the echo.
RC> So explain why are you whining so much about my doing EXACTLY THAT.
AS> Because it's so much fun to see you talk about "junk email"
AS> that you initiated.
ROFL! Just how did I do that? Mind control? I forced you to email me?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: al's bluster
|Date: 26 Dec 96 03:00:06
EID:2687 219a1800
MSGID: 1:3603/210 10b60df4
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Now, you may believe what you want...but a simple question
AS> to Curry would have answered whether he quoted my every word.
RC> Is it just that I'm paying more attention to Al's bluster
RC> lately, or has there been an actual increase in the number
RC> of strawmen he creates? Obviously, you did not claim I quoted
RC> his "every word."
CJ> Yep. One reason I finally became fed up.
RC> If you would like to see the junk email Al sent, just let me know.
CJ> Sure. Should I send you my e-mail address by netmail?
You can reach me here: curry@gte.net (junk emailers beware!).
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:05
EID:1d63 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c41
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> If the symbol representing lack of number in the range
JB> of number is a number,
"Zero" does not represent "lack of number," John. It is itself
a number, an additive identity element.
This is where you make a severe error in your analogy.
SS> Zero is a concept, kinda like god.
JB> Indeed, and a slippery one, too... ...like a god.
Gods are far more slippery (including those oily annointed ones)
simply because they are less well defined.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:06
EID:9a42 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c42
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Michael Hardy
AS> Anyway, God is by nature the ULTIMATE explanation.
As it doesn't explain anything, how can you honestly call it any
sort of "explanation?" Dogmatism, yes. Belief, most assuredly.
But an explanation? How so?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:07
EID:0203 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c43
TID: GE/2 1.2
While the matter is quite trivial, the fact that you never answered
the following, Al, says volumes:
You are merely the one whining about how you should have had your
permission requested before your junk email was posted in the
echo for all to see, despite the undeniable fact that the entirety
of your junk email was merely a continuation (via Internet) of posts
found here -- *nothing* of a personal, private, or confidential
nature was included.
So what is your real problem with it being posted?
Honestly, now.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: reposting
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:08
EID:5fc7 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c44
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> There weren't any except for the one in the addendum.
RC> Either you have a very odd sense of humor, or else there's
RC> a problem on your end.
DW> While my sense of humor is indeed odd,
Congratulations.
DW> it doesn't extend to illusory ^ s. Mebbie if I put some spaces
DW> in front of them the mailer of this BBS won't have a fit...
It seems to have worked. What software does that BBS use? I would
like to be made better aware of what to avoid. Thanks.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:09
EID:145b 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c45
TID: GE/2 1.2
with or without: Brother Jesse
RC> The question is whether or not you have any evidence that Santa,
RC> excuse me . . . that your god Yahweh exists except in the form
RC> of mythology, metaphor, or make believe.
RC> I wonder if you might someday answer that question, Brother Jesse.
DC> Well, he's on a role.
And what a role he has played!
DC> I think he actually answer one of your questions this year.
How true; I remember being quite astonished.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:10
EID:6267 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c46
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> So what are you planning for Easter weekend, 1997?
SQ>> Why, I was planning on spending that weekend not being thankful!
RC> What, no demonic pacts? Or do you do those on New Year's Day?
SQ> We do those sporadically, but forge "the big one" on Halloween.
SQ> The two black cats here help out, in fact.
Every Halloween?
So you only rent out your soul by the year?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:11
EID:353a 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c47
TID: GE/2 1.2
MG> Yeah, everyone including Jesse knows that he made some kind of
MG> generlizing statement about atheists. I have yet to see any
MG> evidence from him about this.
MG> His wive's tale about most good deeds being done by Xtians is
MG> an obvious skew of the data.
In Jesse's defense, I would note that he never made any claim about
"most good deeds being done by Xtians." While that *might* be what
he thinks (though I doubt it is), he never said such a thing.
The only data he ever made any reference to, aside from the personal
data of his own prejudices, pointed to the fact that people who
are involved in volunteer organizations, especially nonreligious
ones, more often give of their time and money to charitable causes.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: ...of Echos and books...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:12
EID:5724 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c48
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> I saw you mention that you are reading *Losing Faith in Faith*
MH> Yeah, I've finished it. The concluding section, on whether the
MH> Bible is a good moral guide, is a powerfully argued case.
Funny, that isn't the concluding section in the copy I've been reading.
MH> If you decide not to read the whole book for some reason, do
MH> make a point to read that section.
Well, I would be interested in what sections of the book you find the
least valid. Differences interest me more than agreements.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: truth
|Date: 26 Dec 96 13:38:13
EID:189d 219a6cc0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c49
TID: GE/2 1.2
MH>> You only ask that because you're False Worrell Scum.
RC> We must apply the Washcloth of Truth to the dirt smudge
RC> which the False Worrell Scum tries to pass off as a beard.
GtP> It won't help. He still won't be able to get a girl
GtP> with his attitudes.
I was not aware that he had been utilizing his attitudes as some
sort of "girl bait."
As bait, yes.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ALL
|Sub: *would* be?
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:21:14
EID:2f35 219a7aa0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c4a
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Al Schroeder
AS> Now, suppose someone combined that evangelical, exclusivenist
AS> nature [of Christianity] with, say, the Norse conviction
AS> that DYING IN BATTLE IS THE WAY TO PARADISE???
AS> That would be a REAL nightmare.
Spelled: I S L A M.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:21:15
EID:028a 219a7aa0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c4b
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Curtis Johnson
CJ> Tidal lock doesn't happen overnight; life could conceivably
CJ> adapt.
AS> I don't think adaption will work.
How would you know?
AS> Roger once pointed out long ago that I attack on the intellectual
AS> side,
Resulting in an unarmed assault.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:21:16
EID:cb4a 219a7aa0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c4c
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Curtis Johnson
AS> Random event? If many of the factors all fall in the same small
AS> range that allows intelligent life, it's less likely to be random.
Is that supposed to be an example of your "attack on the intellectual
side?" I am so *impressed*!
Please continue: If you are dealt a royal flush, is that similarly
"less likely to be random" than being dealt a pair of sevens, an ace,
a three and an eight?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:21:17
EID:74cd 219a7aa0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 110f0c4d
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Curtis Johnson
CJ> You know something? I have no qualms about giving my e-mail
CJ> address to Robert Curry. I'm even on record as chewing somebody
CJ> out for breaking e-mail confidentiality. But you know what?
CJ> I'd roast in hell before giving you my e-mail address, thanks
CJ> to your publicly exhibited behavior.
AS> And I was asking...WHEN, exactly?
He didn't say anything that depends on your asking EVER, Al.
AS> And you are on record as chewing someone out for breaking
AS> e-mail confidentiality. Ummm....perhaps you should note the
AS> contradiction therein.
Are you still pretending that your junk email was "confidential?"
AS> Take care, Curtis. Enjoy some time off.
Well, at least you have the courtesy to be polite to your elders
from time to time.
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 26 Dec 96 08:16:53
EID:85e1 219a4200
MSGID: 1:207/212 14a7d3d6
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32bc3fbc
On (21 Dec 96) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Don Martin...
LB> Perhaps he needed to step away from having to defend every single
LB> thing he said long enough to let himself think about what he really
LB> believed.
You know, Lynda, that's a common occurrence in my own experience. Let me
use the example of having friends try to help me when I was very very
upset and despondent. They'd talk with me and talk with me about what
kinds of attitude changes I needed to make, explain where my thinking
was wrong, and keep at it and keep at it. I'd keep arguing and arguing.
I'd finally get them to leave for the night and overnight, or over the
next couple of days, what they said was far more able to sink in when I
didn't feel I had to respond to every word.
... "Come up to the lab... and see what's on the slab..."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 26 Dec 96 23:52:11
EID:97bd 219abe80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a0
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c2af76
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Don Martin <:(
nc> OY VEY!! The Martian has spoken!!
Pathetic spelling or pathetic humor . . . ?
DM> Your reading ability goes beyond laughable to a thread
DM> of its own. In my initial post, I stated a fact (widespread
DM> human misery) and suggested that that fact served as
DM> evidence for two different and mutually exclusive
DM> conclusions, either:
DM> A sadistic god exists.
DM> or
DM> No god exists.
nc> Maybe it's not my reading ability that is in question.. but your
nc> Yes, Yes, you did speak a "fact" didn't you! And I
And that's why you ran away from it, wasn't it?
nc> must admit you have a simple "catch all" answer for
nc> your "fact"... Well like some folks say... "Simple
nc> minds" demand simply answers....
Simple minds demand SIMPLE answers. How nice of you to give
us confirmation on what we already believed about you.
DM> Now, focus your attention on the problem at hand: I have
DM> asked you to indicate which of those words demarked by "M>"
nc> "focus Attention" YES SIR!!! ATTENTION IS NOW FOCUSED!!!
That's why you can't complete quotes, other than by doing a
fundy shuffle?
nc> And even though you have been unable to discern the
nc> whine..
Oh no, EVERYONE here has heard your whine. Would you like
some cheese with that?
nc> I shall endeavour to help you open up that darkend
nc> mind of yours... Lets give it the Ol' collage try!
You're going to stick small illustrations that you've cut out
of periodicals and other sources onto a piece of paper in
hopes of creating a piece of art? LOL . . .
nc> I shall repeat your section for you and some of your
nc> simply minded frinds...
Oh, I doubt that Mr. Martin has any frinds, simply (sic)
minded or not, Nathaniel. However, he DOES have a
simple-minded lapdog. Want some Alpo?
M> The presence of some 4+ billion people on earth
M> living at or near the poverty/starvation line is highly
M> suggestive that either nobody is there to give a shit,
M> or the Imaginary Superfriend In Charge _likes_ it that
M> way.
nc> Lets looks at line 29... you assume the "4 billion
nc> plus" (which since you state it as "fact" you've
Ahem. The correct statement was `SOME 4 billion plus,'
Nathaniel. Even YOU should be able to get this correct. I
give that shuffle a 4 . . .
nc> counted each one right?)
He made an estimate, which anyone with more than TWO neurons
to rub together could have seen. Man, if you're the best
that Xtianity has, it's a dying religion. A garden hose
could out think you.
nc> is suggestive of something that you also state as "fact"...
It is a fact. Can you refute it? I mean, other than this
whining and posturing and shuffling about?
nc> Since you don't have a clue on "who" the Superfriend
nc> is... this sounds and looks like a "whine"...
Mr. Martin doesn't need an imaginary friend to be able to
tell how many people exist on this planet. I'm sorry that
you do need an imaginary playmate to do so, Nathaniel. Maybe
you should see someone for that. Psychiatry can work wonders
now, I'm told.
Keep up the whine. We all
enjoy it tremendously.
nc> You are making statments you can't back up,
Oh, he can back up his statements, any of us can back up his
statements. Can you back up YOURS? You've yet to supply any
sources for your spurious statements to date.
nc> and you are
nc> whining like a little two year hold who has know idea
nc> about what they are talking about...
It is probably unfortunate that Mr. Martin feels that he
needs to communicate with you on your own level. Perhaps if
you ever displayed any maturity . . . nah, that'll never
happen.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: The pitter-patter of little fetus
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:07:02
EID:4c84 219b00e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a3
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c2b382
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Don Martin <:(
nc> Greetings Mr Martian!
Hello Gnat!
DM> So? It surprises you that tissue removed in an operation
DM> is disposed of in ways that clash with your doubtless
DM> refined sense of aesthetics? Yep, aborted fetuses are tossed
DM> out just like excised tonsils, amputated toes, or excavated
DM> tumors. One of the reasons ordinary people are kept out of
DM> operating rooms is that the actions there are often not
DM> pretty.
nc> the so called "tissue" is to become a human being
nc> unlike tonsils or any other hunk of flesh.. the
nc> Fetuses has everytning needed to become a human if
nc> allowed to grow...
So do many tumors, the cancer recreating cells from
through-out the human body, including hair, eyes, brain cells
(those are the itty-bitty things you left at home), etc.
Your point?
nc> But I understand your need for a simple comparisons...
nc> for the simple minded....
Well, he IS talking with you, isn't he?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:09:33
EID:e8cc 219b0120
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a2
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c2b464
};> Gnat Cookson wrote in a message to Sally Springett <:(
nc> Greetings Sally Sprinboard! Ain't it great to live in a
nc> country where we are killing more childern in one day, then
nc> Hilter ever dreamed possible!
Please cite your source for how many Hitler ever dreamed
possible. Or show everyone that you're a liar.
SS> Do you have any idea of the _size_ of a 12-week fetus? If you were
SS> learn a bit about biology, rather than accepting as gospel the
SS> heated fantasies of fanatic anti-choicers, you would recognize
SS> propaganda you when you read it.
nc> O yes I do, Dear... I have 3 childern of my own.....
And each one of them is a 12-week fetus? And how do you know
they're yours?
nc> Now let me ask you a question.... Every watch the real
Every watch? What about every clock?
nc> pictures of a unborn child trying to push away the
nc> vacum that is trying to suck it into little pieces??
No, have you? If so, why do you buy porn like that? You're
really a sick guy, aren't you Gnat?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
... Nature abhors a vacuum, and She really loathes Gnat's skull.
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:14:03
EID:97bd 219b01c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a4
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c2b560
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Don Martin <:(
nc> Greetings again Mr. MArtian!
Howdy, Gnat.
DM> Your not having much of a mind to begin with, I do not
DM> imagine that it would. However, I should like to see some
DM> evidence to back up your claims that:
DM> a. I am incapable of handling a discussion with the
DM> likes of you.
DM> b. Mr. Smith is my "second string."
DM> c. Mr. Smith is acting here on my orders.
Well, of course Mr. Martin knows that this was just your
attempt to change the subject so you could run away from
something you've said that you can't justify or back up with
facts.
nc> We'll to answer "B" and "C" it was obvious... Your
nc> second string was jumping in for your defense...
LOL . . . at Gnat . . .
You really think that Mr. Martin hasn't already eviscerated
(look it up in a dictionary . . . that's a big book with
words in it . . . somebody'll show you at the library if you
ask them nicely) and tacked out your hide for tanning? Ha.
Look around, Gnat. EVERYONE'S laughing at you.
nc> If
nc> you can handle things on your own then why must all your
nc> friends jump in to save you from the heat?
Actually, I jumped in to enjoy the kill. I love it when you
get flustered and run around in circles spouting blood from
the stump of your neck . . .
nc> Seems if
nc> they felt you could handle the likes of me, there isn't
nc> any need to dop pile on someone who challenges your thoughts
nc> or ideas...
Oh, this is the best in spurious thought! We enjoy jumping
on, Gnat, and if you weren't so craven and inadequate, you
wouldn't mind more members of the debate. Sorry that it's
turning out that you found a wasp's nest by sitting down, but
nobody made you do it. Live with it. Whining for your mommy
won't help you.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:23:51
EID:97bd 219b02e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a6
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c2ca80
};> Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Don Martin <:(
Hola Gnat!
DM> Pray be so good as to cite the peer-reviewed medical
DM> journal in which these long-term medical complications of
DM> abortions are listed. Last I heard, _legal_ abortion was a
DM> great deal less likely to kill or injure a woman than giving
DM> birth, but perhaps you have turned up some new evidence on
DM> the matter.
nc> New Studies show link between Breast Cancer and
nc> Abortions
I note that you are unable to do what Mr. Martin requested,
yet AGAIN.
nc> Cases of breast cancer now considered by some to be in
nc> epidemeic proportions have tripled in number since 1960.
Define epidemeic (sic) proportions.
nc> One factor cited is the availabiltiy of birth control
nc> pill and the other is the fact that abortions have been
nc> made available and legal.
Whoever wrote this is a taco short of a full combination
platter . . . probably on par with those idiots that think
that bras cause breast cancer . . . by their mode of
thinking, it was only when the abortions became LEGAL that
they started to cause breast cancer . . . illegal abortions
apparently didn't.
You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.
nc> Obviously today there are
nc> millions of abortions every year whereaes in 1960 there were
nc> very few.
If there were very few abortions in 1960, yet they have
tripled since 1960, then the number should still be a
moderate amount, not MILLIONS. What lying sack of shit piece
of propaganda did you get this lie from, Gnat?
nc> Society is more comfortable with blaming the oral
nc> contraceptive. But the theory gets to be problematic if
nc> one considers that breast cancer has also tripled in
nc> incidence among Russion women where only abortion (not the
nc> pill) hasbeen easily obtainable in the last 20 years.
Except the pill has been easily obtainable for the last eight
or so years. Another lie from your masters?
nc> The finger seems to point more and more at abortion as the
nc> culprit.
Only to the simple-minded, like yourself, Gnat.
nc> In October a contriversial set of statistics were
nc> published in the British Medical Assocations journal of
nc> Epidemiology and community health. Dr. Joel Brind, one of
nc> the four authors of the articleexpressed his feelings that
nc> the link between abortion and breast cancer is clear
nc> enough that women considering abortions should be WARNED
nc> about the RISK. Dr. Brind is a professor of
nc> endocrinology at Baruch College in New York City.
Is that why he couldn't get the paper published here, but had
to get it sent to the letters column of an overseas journal?
Debunked, Gnat . . . and LOL . . .
I bet Dr. Brind, if he ever said anything of this kind, also
thinks that the tooth fairy causes cavities.
BTW, you still haven't cited your source for the article
you're quoting here. What's the matter, your masters can't
defend themselves?
nc> The authjors told he New Service that abortions now
nc> account for about 5000 cases of breast cancer in the US
nc> yearly, and this number could reach 25,000 by the middle of
nc> next year. They also pointed out that women who have
So let me see here . . . if abortions are in the millions
(let's say at least 2,000,000 AND IF there are 5,000 cases of
breast cancer right now, then that means that 1 woman in 400 is
likely to get breast cancer from your spurious abortion
cause. Since other things cause breast cancer as well and since not all women who get breast cancer have
had abortions, etc., the adjusted number would probably read
about 1 in 800, IF ANY OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS VALID. You
have yet to show that it is, or that you even have a brain.
Your numbers are so fucked up here, no wonder you can't
reason.
nc> miscarriages did not seem to suffer the same risk of breast
nc> cancerthat women who had abortions.
Why not?
nc> This Baruch-Penn State researchers collected data from 23
nc> studies involving 26,000 women with breast cancer and 3500
nc> women without breast cancer.
And how many of them had abortions? You're lying again,
Gnat.
Again, YET AGAIN, your source for this is . . . ?
""Thought stops Gnat's brain""
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:41:56
EID:aa49 219b0520
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3595a7
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 37027a0f
};> Marilyn Burge wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
MB> On (26 Dec 96) Richard Smith wrote to Marilyn Burge...
RS> };> Marilyn Burge wrote in a message to Lynda Bustilloz <:(
MB> On (24 Dec 96) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to Al Schroeder...
as> Not at all. I'm overjoyed that Marilyn, for instance, is
as> speaking to him again.
LB> Cool. Doubt she had your joy in mind at all. What does that
LB> comment have to do with the statement of mine directly
LB> preceeding it?
MB> Gee. All I did was ask him for a URL to go with a reference
MB> he made. I see Al is still playing den mother.
RS> Did you ever doubt it?
MB> I guess I'll just have to get used to the fact that we have
MB> a self-appointed parole officer onboard.
Aw, just because he doesn't know how to have fun, that's no
reason for the rest of us to get gloomy . . .
MB> The lifting was also too much for Chris, after having the
MB> mastectomy and getting all her chest muscles cut.
RS> Oh my.
MB> Yes. Chris and Eileen have been through a solid year of
MB> hell, through no fault of their own. It is terrible for
MB> them. Lou and I have the luxury of bowing out anytime we
MB> choose; C&E
MB> are stuck in what appears to be a very badly deteriorating
MB> situation. I have enormous respect for Chris. I don't know
MB> what my sister would do without her.
I don't know how anyone handles that sort of thing.
MB> I guess you can call the above both bad news and good
MB> news. It's been a long, long two months, but, hopefully,
MB> the worst is about over.
RS> You know, though it doesn't count for much in the grand
RS> scheme of things Marilyn, I have to say that I find myself
RS> respecting you and your family more and more for how you'r
RS> handling this whole situation. And, though it doesn't do any
RS> good, I do empathize with you. If it was happening to me and
RS> mine, I'm not sure I could approach it so calmly and with
RS> such dignity.
MB> You haven't seen me on my bad days. I can sit on a post and
MB> look at it later, after the moodiness has passed; real-life
MB> doesn't give me that luxury, unfortunately.
I know. Still, you continue forward. That means something.
MB> I do worry terribly about my husband (bless his heart) and
MB> the toll this could take on his health, given his age and
MB> all.
What a long,
drawn-out hell that must be for everyone . . .
RS> put here just to stay on subject:> I would imagine that most
RS> people, when faced with what appears to be a never-ending
RS> series of bad incidents (perhaps I could call it a
RS> slow-motion tragedy) would tend to crawl (metaphorically)
RS> towards anything that offerred them any hope at all,
RS> especially faith of some sort. In my case, I'm not sure I
RS> could remain as stoic and strong as you appear to be doing.
RS> You have my respect, and I hope things get better for you.
MB> Thank you. I appreciate the kind words of respect. Every
MB> positive observation and thought helps keep us going.
It's little enough that I can do. Hang in there.
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
MB> What does this mean? I'm still working on perfecting my
MB> English, and don't have a clue about Latin.
It's Alfred E. Neuman's motto from Mad Magazine: What, me
worry?
MB> Have a healthy and prosperous new year.
The same right back atcha, Marilyn, for you and yours.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:00
EID:baad 219a90c0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 30bed7df
RH> KW> IF it makes you feel better, cats do that too. I have one that's
RH> KW> perfected the 'sneaky paw' technic.
RH>Depends. we have two cats, and neither one seems interested in our food.
I wish I could convince my three of that!
RH> RH>But that is not the case. I do not argue fairness, I only state what
RH> RH>IS. You can obey or not, but you can be punished for not obeying.
RH> Yes, I am aware of the christian mandated laws concerning what
RH> KW> and who I sleep with, and how my partner(s) and I go about that.
RH>Indeed. It's a religiously motivated meddling, but it can have
RH>devastating effects on your lives if it gets invoked.
How is that our fault? The state that I'm living in has assorted common
law marriage laws. We find ways to live within the system, Roger, and
still be true to ourselves.
RH> RH>And I would imagine that all pagans are not legally married as well?
RH> RH>Another cause for concern.
RH> KW> Many pagans have chosen to comply with the local laws in so far
as a
RH> KW> civil marriage to get the legal status, then taken care of the
RH> KW> religious end in at another ritual if they don't have access to
someone
RH> KW> who is able to sign the legal paperwork at a handfasting. Others
give
RH> KW> in, and do the public 'wedding' for the sake of peace in the
RH> KW> family--and still do the handfasting for themselves.
RH>This would seem the safest course.
Especially if the pagan isn't willing to come out of the broom closet to
their extended family.
RH> KW> My own partnership is 'legal', Bear and I having walked through
the
RH> KW> forms in Georgia to get the paperwork.
RH> KW> Christians didn't invent the concept of marriage, Roger. They may
RH>Never said such. My concerns are strictly legal. And I'm informed
RH>that in Colorado, things are much more relaxed anyway.
They are in TX, too. What laws that there are on the books are mostly
ignored, except for the laws concerning the financial end of things. To
claim a wife or husband for benefits, you still have to present a
marriage licence.
RH> KW> have hijacked the legalities of it in this country, but they can't
RH> KW> hijack the reality of other types of vows. And they can not force
me
RH> KW> into more than a cosmetic appearance of compliance to their version
of
RH> KW> legality. I will keep the vows, the oaths, and my word where I've
RH> KW> sworn it-not where they've tried to force me into swearing it.
RH>A forced oath is no oath anyway. But we are all bound by the law. We
RH>have some small experience with it in my family and it's ever
RH>so much like a mindless meat grinder. If you get into the intake,
RH>you will inexorably come out the other end.....hamburger.
That's the truth.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Evangelists: the higher the hair, the closer to God.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:00
EID:aecd 219a90c0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e7451425
RV>>RV>It also interesting to see that the CUCUMBERS, drag you out of the
RV>>RV>corner. Also the only male/s, your going to fool with that
RV>>RV> is a Christian/Fundy. You going to have to get a
RV>>RV>different act.
RV>>RV>< running like hell-------stage left-------> >
RV>KW>Ronald, dear, it isn't cucumbers that you should be worried about.
It's
RV>KW>chocolate!
RV>O'boy, with that 'dear' toss in, I know i'm in shit now. You forget
RV>, I've heard all about the dear ladies? in the smoke area and their
RV>chocolate cake/pie/whatever. Dumb i may_be, not that dumb.I will stick
RV>to my own cooking, thank you very much. Try another one.
It's only the pie that you need to worry about, Ronald. The
cookies, cakes, and candy are all safe, and indeed necessary to placate
some of our local goddesses.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Even God has trouble separating fantasy from reality.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Demons!
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:00
EID:ce8e 219a90c0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9d2ecd08
RS>KW> RS>They have such a reputation making fairy tales into movies, you
RS>KW> RS>see... :)
RS>KW> RS>Rod "... it'd give a new meaning to bedknobs and broomsticks,
RS>KW> RS>don't you think?" Swift
RS>KW> LOL!!! You *naughty* boy!
RS>Not naughty, just practical... We'd have to ditch that Murder She
RS>Wrote bitch from the remake -- Angela Landsbury wouldn't really
RS>fit into a Disney gay-male porn feature.
RS>We could, say, swap her with someone equally as talentless --
RS>like Pat Robertson :) :) *wicked grin*
The thought of Pat Robertson as a drag queen ala Patrick
Swayze is irresistible. Put him opposite Anita Bryant as the professor
selling mail order witch craft lessons, and they'd have a real hit!
RS>Rod "...and of course, our other big porn star would have to be
RS>the baby-faced gay-lookalike Ralph Reid of the Kwistian Koalition
RS>for Krist" Swift :)
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Fear is the mind killer- Paul Atreides
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: textbooks?
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:00
EID:4581 219a90c0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 55143b9e
EM>Staccato Vocalizations issued thus from Katherine Wintersnight to Ed
Mills on
EM>12 Dec 96:
EM>EM> I suppose I could jumpstart things by making a disparaging
comment
EM>EM> or two about rugby, but I have more contempt for the corresponding
EM>EM> game that's played over here - so there wouldn't be much
mileage
EM>EM> to be had there, either.
EM>EM> Cheerio!
EM> KW> How about a few remarks about a national icon who yearns to be a
used
EM> KW> tampon?
EM> Oh dang, you're going to have to refresh my memory. Was it Sid
EM> Vicious or somebody like that?
Some one like that--it was the Prince of Wales.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * File not found. Remember, you just erased it.
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Bill Forseth
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 27 Dec 96 08:26:54
EID:43f9 219b4340
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3dcae
REPLY: 1:282/76.0 32ba0030
Greetings!
DC>Now, show evidence that your god exists, Jesse.
JJ> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist. Can you prove to me that
JJ> evidence is required for God to exist? For
JJ> anyone or anything else to
JJ> exist?
BF> Evidence is a -symptom- of existence. Those things that exhibit no
BF> symptoms of existence are, sooner or later, forgotten. Just like your
BF> god will someday be forgotten, and a new one will take its place.
BF> Not that it wasn't a nice idea, just that the son-of-a-bitch forgot
BF> to show up.
Yep! the Ol' "If a tree falls in the Forest and no one see's it"
"Existence" isn't dependent on man's ability to remember it,
science is now aware of many things that man had no ability to
understand or have evidence of. But yet it still existed, things
exist not because we can prove they exist.. they exist becasue they
are there.
Many have made the quote you have about God being forgotten and yet
He's still around....
In fact let me fill you in on a bit of history....
Voltaire the noted French skeptic and infidel who died in 1778, predicted
that in 100 years from his time Christianity would be swept from existence
and passed into history. But what happened??
50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his house
and used his printing press to produce 1000's of Bibles to be
distributed worldwide!
Voltarie has passed away (just as you will) into history... BUT NOT
the Bible...
Your comment is as foolish as Voltarie's ....
Nate
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 27 Dec 96 08:37:18
EID:9eda 219b44a0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3df1e
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 bd216f51
Greetings!
BW> On (21 Dec 96) Don Martin wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DM> Certainly not by Wolff and/or the other fundies.
BW> Still foolishly confusing me with a fundy? Since Carl Sagan and I
BW> agree on almost all grounds. That is like calling Carl Sagan a
BW> fundy. Of course, I expect fools like you to not understand. And
BW> gee... speaking about fools... you haven't learned one damn thing in
BW> years, have you? I really met some dumb people in my life, but this
BW> group truly takes the cake.
Boy you got that right! Mr Martian thinks every one that doesn't
agree with him is a "fundy" .... And someone on here told me he
has a "PHD"... I guess his "higher education" hasn't helped him
in the area of discernment much...
Nate
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 27 Dec 96 08:55:24
EID:352b 219b46e0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3e35c
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c1211b
My Favorite Martian was speaking!!! So I just had to stop and look in!
DM> To me, the main theme of the echo is debunking, but Tiggy's
Gee, whiz!!! And here we thought the purpose of this echo was so you
could call everyone a "Fundy"... Glad you finally set us all straight!
DM> confusion is justified. Speaking for myself, I don't give a damn
DM> about religion and would never trouble my pretty little head about
The way you attack everyone who has a belief in God, you'd think other
wise.... Maybe it's not that "you don't give a damn".. maybe it's just
that you are runnning scared....
DM> So long as they keep their hands off of our common wealth, our
DM> government, religious persons of whatever stripe may worship
DM> whatever they choose in whatever way they like without any objection
DM> from me. I was recently reminded of an observation by Gibbon
Gee.. one minute you are extoling the individuals rights to think and
do as we see fit, then is some other post you attack and call people
"Fundies"... You really are two faced aren't you? But then I can
understand it, since you lack the knowledge of a personal saviour
you feel or know you won't be answering to anyone or anything but
your self...
Nate
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Kurtis Baxter
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:05:44
EID:139b 219b48a0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3e5c8
REPLY: 1:163/125 db2c9262
Greetings!
KB> Do you think the bible is real, and god really
Yeppers!! It be real!!! I've got one here on my desk... In fact you
can go into almost any bookstore and prove it exists!
KB> wrote it etc, or do you think
KB> it was written by a group so that people would feel
KB> that they had a purpose,
KB> and there was a meaning for life?
Well my friend it was really penned by 40 authors under the direction
of God, it's purpose was to speak to mankind about a better way...
SOme have chosen to reject it's message (Which is within their rights)
Funny isn't it... God the FIRST giver of human rights!
KB> Hmm..... I love turtles.
Cool! I like dogs better.. but like I always say .. "To each their own"
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:32:52
EID:8bfa 219b4c00
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3ec24
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 5b714d0b
Greetings!
SS> Do you have any idea of the _size_ of a 12-week fetus? If you were
SS> learn a bit about biology, rather than accepting as gospel the
SS> heated fantasies of fanatic anti-choicers, you would recognize
SS> propaganda you when you read it.
""If it isn't a baby, then she's not Pregnant""
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Nate Cookson
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:34:06
EID:8bfa 219b4c40
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32c3ec6e
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 5b714d0b
SS> You believe everything you read, don't you? Particularly when you
SS> don't have enough information to make a judgement.
""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading incomprehension
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:07:02
EID:1186 219b50e0
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32c39fef
Nate Cookson said "READING INCOMPREHENSION" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> Pray be so good as to cite the peer-reviewed medical
DM> journal in which these long-term medical complications of
DM> abortions are listed. Last I heard, _legal_ abortion was a
DM> great deal less likely to kill or injure a woman than giving
DM> birth, but perhaps you have turned up some new evidence on
DM> the matter.
NC> New Studies show link between Breast Cancer and
NC> Abortions
NC>
NC> Cases of breast cancer now considered by some to be in
NC> epidemeic proportions have tripled in number since
NC> 1960. One factor cited is the availabiltiy of birth
NC> control pill and the other is the fact that abortions
NC> have been made available and legal. Obviously today
NC> there are millions of abortions every year whereaes in
NC> 1960 there were very few.
NC>
NC> Society is more comfortable with blaming the oral
NC> contraceptive. But the theory gets to be problematic if
NC> one considers that breast cancer has also tripled in
NC> incidence among Russion women where only abortion (not
NC> the pill) hasbeen easily obtainable in the last 20
NC> years. The finger seems to point more and more at
NC> abortion as the culprit.
Now this is rather closer to the mark; however, you are
not there yet. You are _not_ quoting a peer-reviewed journal
but rather an editorial written by someone who has perhaps
once _heard_ of a peer-reviewed journal. This is pretty much
confirmed in the next lines:
NC> In October a contriversial set of statistics were
NC> published in the British Medical Assocations journal of
NC> Epidemiology and community health.
Now, had you presented this "contriversial set of
statistics" instead of generalized talk about it, you would
actually be responding to the request put to you. What do
these statistics show? How much greater, in terms of cases
per thousand, _is_ the risk of a woman who has had an
abortion developing breast cancer over one who has not? In
the study, how were the possible effects of other causative
factors (number of sexual partners, alcohol and tobacco use,
obesity, etc.) eliminated from the samples? Why is the set
labeled "controversial"? Do you know what "controversial"
_means_ in this context? It is _not_ good news.
NC> Dr. Joel Brind, one of the four authors of the
NC> articleexpressed his feelings that the link between
NC> abortion and breast cancer is clear enough that women
NC> considering abortions should be WARNED about the RISK.
NC> Dr. Brind is a professor of endocrinology at Baruch
NC> College in New York City.
The expression of the _feelings_ of one of the authors
of a "contriversial set of statistics" is not, I fear,
science. It is personal. Incidentally, what published work
_are_ you quoting here? It is customary to reveal where you
found it so that others may see the thing for themselves or,
in the case of publishers with a known propagandistic ax to
grind (ICR, l'Observatore Romano, Pravda) discount it for
themselves on a "consider the source" basis.
NC> The authjors told he New Service that abortions now
NC> account for about 5000 cases of breast cancer in the US
NC> yearly, and this number could reach 25,000 by the
NC> middle of next year.
Who are "the authors"? You have told us about Brind: did
he spawn or something? Who is the "New Service" (News
Service, perhaps?)? There are dozens of the things: Reuters,
UPI, AP, CNN, TASS, and lesser breeds without the law.
Without a specific name, this appears to be an empty
reference cranked out by a public relations effort.
Regarding the numbers themselves: I know of no reputable
medical writer that issues such flat statements as "account for
about 5000 cases of breast cancer in the US yearly", which
implies a 1:1 relationship between the abortion and the
cancer. In view of the statistics presumably behind this
statement being labeled "controversial", I rather doubt that
any sane person would make such a statement; surely no sane
man will accept it as it stands, still less the fivefold
growth promised by June 1997. This reads like something from
a supermarket tabloid.
NC> This Baruch-Penn State researchers collected data from
NC> 23 studies involving 26,000 women with breast cancer
NC> and 3500 women without breast cancer.
In other words, they did not study any women personally,
following them over time and imposing strict controls on the
sample (pairing abortion/nonabortion individuals on the
basis of their smoking, obesity, promiscuity, etc). Rather,
they rehashed the findings of 23 other guys of probably
differing levels of competence, differing research objects,
differing controls, differing sample sizes. Implicit in this
is that they did _not_ use the data from 26 (or 50, or 100)
_other_ studies that were doubtless undertaken during the
same time in the area of breast cancer. Any criteria for
study inclusion/exclusion provided? This is crucial: absent
specific criteria, such rehashing researchers are wide open
to the charge of selecting for inclusion those studies the
findings of which supported their pre-existing biases.
These points are probably the basis of the noncoveted
"controversial" label--Brind et al. does not look like a
very good study from what you have presented (and/or failed
to present) here.
You are improving, but you are not ready for prime time
yet. Find a copy of that British journal and work from it
instead of whatever it is you have got hold of here.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:36:50
EID:79f2 219b4c80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da157
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32c2d538
};> Gerry Danen wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
RS> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
GD> This is an English echo, I thought... Sorry, but I can call
GD> you names in a different language too...
RS> Too bad I didn't call you any names. Ask anyone who speaks
RS> latin what this means, and you'll see that I didn't call you
RS> a name at all. How's that foot taste?
GD> Sorry, I don't know anyone who speaks Latin.
So you'll jump to conclusions without evidence and without
knowing what you're talking about?
GD> I'll not comment on your foot...
Sorry son, it's not MY foot.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:41:32
EID:aa49 219b4d20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da158
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 af6aa9c7
};> Marilyn Burge wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
MB> On (26 Dec 96) Richard Smith wrote to Marilyn Burge...
RS> put here just to stay on subject:> I would imagine that most
RS> people, when faced with what appears to be a never-ending
RS> series of bad incidents (perhaps I could call it a
RS> slow-motion tragedy) would tend to crawl (metaphorically)
RS> towards anything that offerred them any hope at all,
RS> especially faith of some sort. In my case, I'm not sure I
RS> could remain as stoic and strong as you appear to be doing.
RS> You have my respect, and I hope things get better for you.
MB> It gets worse. Eileen went into surgery at 10 this morning.
MB> Chris called us when the surgery was over, around 3-3:30.
Damn, that's a long time . . .
MB> The kind of tumor Eileen has is benign 99 percent of the
MB> time. Eileen, unfortunately, falls in the other 1 percent of
MB> the cases.
Oh my.
MB> They do not yet know the origin of the cancer, but
MB> they are certain it arrived in her brain from someplace else
MB> in her body. I'll lay odds it started in her lungs; she's
MB> smoked all her life.
Sounds right to me too . . .
MB> Chris has given Eileen nearly a quarter-century of love and
MB> happiness; now we are counting the days, I'm afraid. There
MB> is as yet no prognosis from the doctor regarding her
MB> long-term chances, but I do know that as a general rule, a
MB> person lives less than a year after lung cancer is
MB> diagnosed. So, if Chris and I are right about the cancer's
MB> origin, we are seeing Eileen's last days on Earth.
Very possible. A couple of years ago I had an aunt die from
complications of the surgery to remove part of a lung due to
lung cancer. She just died in the recovery room.
MB> She's my baby sister. It isn't supposed to happen like
MB> this. To me, she'll always be my baby sister.
Understood. And nothing will make it easier. I don't know
how I'd handle it, myself. Just be gentle with yourself.
MB> Now three of the five of us have had some form of cancer:
MB> Eileen, brain cancer (and possibly lung); Art, prostate
MB> cancer; and, Jeanette, breast cancer.
My grandmother, Verna, died just six weeks or so ago from
complications of cancer. One of her daughters, Margaret,
died from the complications of lung cancer I outlined above
not four years ago. My sister Denise has had Hodgekin's
Disease twice. My cousin Ricky just died of a brain tumor
about two weeks ago. My Aunt Cleta just had both breasts and
a lot of glands removed ,
is in chemotherapy, and is holding on for her life. Her
daughter, Cherise, has just been diagnosed with breast cancer
as well.
Sometimes I think that the scythe that Death wields is named
Cancer . . .
MB> Only Vi, the eldest and I, next to the youngest remain
MB> cancer- free.
Well, be sure to frequently test. We know it runs in our
family now . . . and since I come from a place where there
are a lot of carcinogens in the populace (Michigan had a big
PCB problem twenty years ago), I have to be careful myself.
A sigmoidoscopy isn't any fun, but considering the
alternative . . .
MB> Sometimes life is hard.
The closer I get to 40, and the more I look and
listen, the more convinced I am that life is only easy for
the young. There certainly doesn't seem to be much to
recommend it in later years.
Take care of yourself. Let me also recommend a book that
I've found very useful in such times. It's called How To
Survive The Loss Of A Love, and is available at any major
bookstore, probably in the Self Help section. The authors
escape me at the moment, but they can do a title search for
you at the store. It's available in both paperback and
hardback. I went out and got the hardback reissue just last
year because I loved the paperback so much. It really DOES
help out. The cost should be about ten dollars or less.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading incomprehension
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:56:09
EID:5f2c 219b4f00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da159
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c2e18a
};> Don Martin wrote in a message to Nate Cookson <:(
DM> Nate Cookson said "READING INCOMPREHENSION" to Don Martin,
DM> adding:
DM> Your not having much of a mind to begin with, I do not
DM> imagine that it would. However, I should like to see some
DM> evidence to back up your claims that:
DM> a. I am incapable of handling a discussion with the
DM> likes of you.
DM> b. Mr. Smith is my "second string."
DM> c. Mr. Smith is acting here on my orders.
NC> We'll to answer "B" and "C" it was obvious... Your second string
NC> was jumping in for your defense... If you can handle things
NC> on your own then why must all your friends jump in to save you
NC> from the heat? Seems if they felt you could handle the likes of
NC> me, there isn't any need to dop pile on someone who challenges your
NC> thoughts or ideas...
DM> You apparently have no idea the way a public echo works.
I doubt he knows how his zipper works.
DM> Any time something stupid is said, anyone who feels like it
DM> may respond. The fact that more than one person here finds
DM> your effusions stupid and risible does not mean that these
DM> persons are engaged in some sort of cabal against you.
It's that dreaded evil conspiracy . . .
DM> You
DM> impied that I had commanded Mr. Smith to act on my behalf,
DM> and I should like to see some support for that. Actually, I
I would love to see such evidence myself. I'm used to being
disappointed, though.
DM> should like to see some evidence that your attempts at
DM> vituperation generate any "heat" that anyone might need
DM> saving from, but I expect that that is rather beyond you.
Math is beyond him, as witnessed by his post on breast cancer
and abortion.
DM> Around here, dog (or, if you will, "dop") piles will
DM> form whenever us dogs feel like it.
And the protestations of the prey just make them juicier . .
. . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:00:33
EID:0e9a 219b5000
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da15a
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9b009618
};> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Nate Cookson <:(
GtP> Most published, maybe, but I doubt most read. I know FEW christians
GtP> christian stuff.
NC> A guess on your part.... The FACT remains it is one of the most
NC> published books in the history of mankind. And one of the MOST READ.
CJ> Nate (or since you call Don Martin "Martian," may I
CJ> call you Gnat?),
I do. It's fun.
CJ> Do you have some sort of stutter in your program?
CJ> Why did you have to repeat Gwenny's comment twice?
He has the verbal runs . . .
GtP> Most published, maybe, but I doubt most read. I know FEW christians
GtP> who have bothered to read it. And the most thrown
GtP> away or burned. Ever been to a used bookstore?
GtP> They usually have dozens of them. The Goodwill is
GtP> the same way. Wholes sections of bibles and
GtP> christian stuff.
NC> You "Know"? First would you like to prove that statment? Names,
NC> address? so we can all see that you speak the truth? How do you
NC> know these people are "christians" ?
CJ> I can offer some anecdotal confirmation--the 3
CJ> translations I have now I rescued from the alley. And I
CJ> have left at least two "Good News" translations lay there.
Where they should be. They could have been boobytrapped,
btw. Lucky you left them alone.
CJ> I have never seen more than 2 copies of any other
CJ> book in the alley.
NC> Ironies of History....
NC> In A.D, 303 Roman Emperor Diocletian issued an edict to destory
both
NC> the Christians and their sacred book. In response to the edict the
NC> Roman soldiers went throughout the empire razing churches to the ground,
NC> burning the Scriptures freeing the empire from the hated curse of
NC> Christianity and the Bible.
CJ> Re-read your last sentence: you are stating that he
CJ> succeeded in his objective.
The Bible is the fruitcake of literature . . .
CJ> And it's rather interesting that you yourself are
CJ> calling "Christianity and the Bible" a "hated curse."
Tourettes' Syndrome?
CJ> Within a few decades, Christians were doing the same
CJ> to pagans and heretics.
But that's probably okay to Gnat . . .
CJ> BTW, at this time there was no single book called
CJ> "The Bible." Just what would be in the New Testament
CJ> would not be agreed upon for more than a century. And
CJ> Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox still do not agree on
CJ> what constitutes "the" Bible.
I pointed this out myself. I am prepared for Gnat to ignore
it, though . . .
NC> A mere 25 years later Constantine the emperor following Diocletian
NC> commissioned Eusebius to prepare 50 copies of the Scripture at the
NC> government expense!
CJ> Constantine was not the immediate successor of
CJ> Diocletian, nor did Eusebius receive such a commission.
Now Curtis . . . facts will only confuse poor Gnat.
CJ> Constantine also subsidized pagan religion, and kept
CJ> the pagan religious title _pontifex maximus_.
I can prophecize a hugh IS NOT from Gnat on this one . . .
NC> Trash it all you want, the truth is the Bible will be here long after
NC> you are turned to dust.
CJ> Trash it all you want, the truth is _The Wizard of
CJ> Oz_ will be here long after you are turned to dust.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:05:54
EID:6d7b 219b50a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da15b
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9b00977d
};> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
CJ> So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
RS> The only animal stupid enough to have sex with Steve . . . ?
CJ> Actually, I was wondering if it was anything like
CJ> "Pinkie," a street cat that lives by sponging food off 4-5
CJ> households in my block. Our two cats are territorial about
CJ> the inside of the house, but he's still under the delusion
CJ> that he lives here nonetheless. And when you pick him up
CJ> to toss him back out, he purrs.
RS> What a great survival mechanism! Imagine how many times he
RS> purrs and the person getting ready to throw him out recants
RS> and let's him stay a bit longer. We have a cat that is fed
RS> by many neighbors as well . . . he apparently takes turns
RS> living under people's houses, etc. We tried taking him in
RS> here, but he and I had a personality problem. Every time he
RS> decided he didn't like me, he'd piss on my keyboard . . .
RS> One of us had to go.
CJ> I can't predict what I'd do to a cat doing that, but
CJ> the cat would certainly remember it!
LOL . . .
CJ> "Pinkie" is unneutered, so he'd probably start
CJ> scenting territory even if the two cats here let him in.
CJ> We still put food out for him, and a box with rags for the
CJ> cold nights when
CJ> neighbors don't let him in. A very tough cat while still
CJ> being remarkably good-natured--but _persistent_!
The Grand Man of the neighborhood, yep. He'll swashbuckle
his way around for many years, and then suddenly disappear,
to be eventually replaced with another young dandy. You
gotta admire the swagger, even when you know his existence is
doomed . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Mario Gonzalez
|Sub: I got my Xmas wish!
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:09:56
EID:a63b 219b5120
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c3da15c
REPLY: 4:972/4.0 32c17ff3
};> Mario Gonzalez wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
jj> LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY
jj> LONGER...EXCEPT TO SPREAD THIS MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER
jj> SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE...LET US SPEND OUR TIME
jj> POSTING TO OTHER MESSAGE AREAS WHERE THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND
jj> EVEN AN AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH TO HEAR THE
jj> MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET US SPEND OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY, LET
jj> US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE EARS TO HEAR, AND
jj> HEARTS TO FEEL!
RS> Don't let the doorknob get stuck in your ass on the way out.
MG> Great reply, really enjoyed it, laughed a good deal
MG> with the original post and with your reply, you took
MG> the words right out of my keyboard.
Thanx, Mario. Glad you enjoyed it. I had fun with it too.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 26 Dec 96 18:06:00
EID:60ae 219a90c0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 17b5ed2f
RS>On 30-07-96 at 10:13, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to J.J. HITT:
RS>KW> JH>Um... what's a PK? Psychokenetics? (a free poltergiest with every
RS>room!)
RS>KW> Promise Keepers. They have their meetings there.
RS>Ugh! I think the promisefilth are the most evil cretins in the
RS>whole right-wing christian movement. Have you ever heard some of
RS>their reprehensible crap?
Yes, I have, and I do agree with you. I've also never to date met a PK
that I didn't end up deciding was a weak chinned ninny with major
problems concerning his masculinity.
RS>Bill McCartney is truly evil! But what else could you expect
RS>from a knuckle-dragging college football coach who has turned to
RS>preaching?
He's found him self a truly successful get rich quick scam.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Everything lost is found again, in a new form, in a new
way.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:03
EID:3cd0 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b100196
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 26 Dec 96 12:57pm, NATE COOKSON wrote to DON MARTIN:
DM>> Pray be so good as to cite the peer-reviewed medical
DM>> journal in which these long-term medical complications of
DM>> abortions are listed. Last I heard, _legal_ abortion was a
DM>> great deal less likely to kill or injure a woman than giving
DM>> birth, but perhaps you have turned up some new evidence on
DM>> the matter.
NC>
NC> New Studies show link between Breast Cancer and Abortions
NC>
NC> Cases of breast cancer now considered by some to be in epidemeic
NC> proportions have tripled in number since 1960. One factor cited
NC> is the availabiltiy of birth control pill and the other is the fact
NC> that abortions have been made available and legal. Obviously today
NC> there are millions of abortions every year whereaes in 1960 there
were
NC> very few.
There were a _lot_ of abortions being performed in 1960,
and the effect on the health of the woman was much greater because
they were illegal.
Now, a first lesson in statistics: correlation does not
automatically equate to causation. You can find a 100%
correlation between breast cancer and breathing air.
NC> Society is more comfortable with blaming the oral contraceptive. But
NC> the theory gets to be problematic if one considers that breast cancer
NC> has also tripled in incidence among Russion women where only abortion
NC> (not the pill) hasbeen easily obtainable in the last 20 years.
They had easily obtained abortion long before the last 20
years.
So--are you working with a 1980 study, or does this
comparison actually undercut your case?
NC> In October a contriversial set of statistics were published in the
NC> British Medical Assocations journal of Epidemiology and community
NC> health. Dr. Joel Brind, one of the four authors of the articleexpressed
That's not real
NC> The authjors told he New Service that abortions now account for
NC> about 5000 cases of breast cancer in the US yearly, and this number
NC> could reach 25,000 by the middle of next year. They also pointed
NC> out that women who have miscarriages did not seem to suffer the
NC> same risk of breast cancerthat women who had abortions.
That's not really a citation. You are obviously relying on
a secondary source. You have not given a date or page number,
etc. for either the journal paper or the article relating the
study.
Now, until you can prove a mechanism, you have only a
correlation, not a tested cause. The breast is a completely
different organ than the uterus, and it's quite difficult to
conceive (pun intended) of what the mechanism might be. And
since abortions are basically induced miscarriages, but
uninduced miscarriages do not have the correlation, your
difficulty of demonstrating that abortions cause breast cancer
becomes even greater.
My _Contraceptive Technology_, 16th rev. ed., 1994,
Irvington, has no mention of breast cancer whatsoever in
its discussion of long-term sequelae to abortion.
I happen to have the 9th edition of _Harrison's Principles
of Internal Medicine_, a standard textbook/reference for
physicians. The 1980 copyright means it's getting long in the
tooth, but it still has much useful information (and hey, it cost
me only 50 cents!) From p. 1791:
"It occurs with increasing frequency from the age of 20 up
to the menopause, when its incidence levels off until a scond rise
in frequency occurs after the age of 65. For reasons as yet not
entirely clear, breast cancer is very much less common in Japan
and other Oriental countries." As you may know, abortion is quite
common in Japan and China. And note the age dependency--you have
to disentangle the effect of the baby boom on the demographics.
"Observations on the epidemiology of breast cancer suggest
that environmental influences may play a role. The disease is
more common in Japanese women living in the United States than in
Japan and in fat women than in thin. Of particular interest is
the high incidence of breast cancer among the Parsis in Bombay,
more than twice that of the general population in India."
And here is something that may well explain the alleged
correlation, if it exists: "The risk of breast cancer is reduced
as much as 70 percent in women completing their first pregnancy
and lactation by the age of 18, as compared with the general
population at risk. The extent of this reduction in risk by
pregnancy decreases with age, and a first pregnancy above the age
of 30 may actually increase the risk. The number of pregnancies
after the first has no further protective effect, NOR DO
ABORTIONS. [My capitals--CJ] These findings suggest that the
initiating carcinogenic factors begin to operate at puberty but
are somehow inhibited by the normal processes of pregnancy and
lactation; the earlier this occurs, the more complete the
inhibition."
First-trimester abortions generally happen before
lactation occurs; therefore a protective effect of early-age
lactation would be removed. Women who miscarry but do not abort
are much more likely to be trying to have babies, and will try
later--also, noticeable miscarriages (as opposed to unnoticed)
occur much later. Women having abortions are also much more
likely to postpone having their first baby until they're 30 or
more.
And notice that if teen-age girls abstained from sex
altogether (and therefore did not have babies), their incidence
of breast cancer goes up much more than the supposed correlation
of abortion with breast cancer.
... Nightmare: Cats with opposable thumbs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: heat
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:04
EID:0902 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b10020d
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
GT>> I have vague memories of her being his niece's imaginary friend.
CJ>> Ah-ha. Enlightenment strikes. Thanks for cluing in this
CJ>> late-comer.
MB> He refers to her as his god-daughter, which, I suspect, drives
MB> the fundies up a wall at the mere thought of him being responsible
MB> for her "spiritual growth," should anything happen to her parents.
Spirituality is not dependent on theism, as several Eastern
religions demonstrate.
... "Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not an actor!"
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: mustard bath
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:05
EID:6aa2 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b100284
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> DR>> Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person
CJ>> DR>> need?!
CJ>> CJ>> Bread and sardines.
ML>> Beer and cigars.
CJ>> Books and broads.
MB> Books and Fidonet
Fidonet's good--but *that* good enough to substitute?
... To eros is human.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:06
EID:b525 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b1002fb
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
MB> What does this mean? I'm still working on perfecting my English,
MB> and don't have a clue about Latin.
Since Richard said he might not be able to post for a
little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but it looks
like:
"What, me worry?"
... Novels, like taglines, have a 67-character limit.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: christians v guns
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:07
EID:4129 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b100372
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 25 Dec 96 04:37am, CHRIS GREEN wrote to DAVID RICE:
CG> Continue reading the passage and compare verses 49-52; here a servant
CG> loses an ear, an the Nazarene is said to have healed him. Luke seems
to
CG> confirm that swords and sticks are OK against a thief.
CG> MATT 26:1-50 covers the same period; no mention of any swords.
CG> MARK 14:1-43 covers the same period. There is reference to the use
of a
CG> sword in 14:47, but the text is unclear as to whether this was one of
CG> the crowd or one of the 'followers'.
CG> JOHN 13-18:12 this is the longest story of the Last Supper, and
CG> conceivably comes from someone who took part. Mention is made of Simon
CG> Peter having a sword (18:10).
CG> The only verse out of the above, where the Nazarene is said to be saying
CG> to 'Bear Arms ' is in Luke.
CG> Now Luke was probably written by a doctor the accuracy of the medical
CG> descriptions gives this away; he was a biographer, and he was working
CG> from first hand sources - it is therefore the reliability of the sources
CG> which is the question.
CG> Suppose we take a modern occurence, a group of people see a robbery,
and
CG> soon afterwards the police interview the witnesses, this is what is
CG> meant by first hand sources, but, as any Law Enforcement Officer will
CG> tell you, it is rare for witnesses to agree on everything; what you
get
CG> is a composite picture; however, when a violent act takes place people
CG> remember who did it (if they were close observers).
CG> My feeling having gone over the four books, is that Simon Peter was
CG> armed with a sword and injured someone.
CG> I discount LUKE 22:36 on the grounds that there is no corroborative
CG> evidence from either of the other books which mention swords (Mark and
CG> John). John is the most comprehensive report of the actions of that
CG> night, it seems likely that he was actually at the party, therefore
I am
CG> inclined towards his reportage as being the most accurate. To discuss
CG> weapons as part of the meal, would have stood out, since this would
have
CG> meant that any violence on or by the Nazarene and his group would have
CG> been premeditated. John would not have missed this, he did not report
CG> it, but did report Simon Peter.
CG> Psychologically John comes over as a conscientious and honest writer
CG> giving an unbiased report.
I've given the supposed ear incident some thought previously,
and I think that there are some clear indications that it is meant
to be symbolic.
First, it is clearly *very* difficult to cut off only an
ear, with no further injury, when attacking an unbound man. This
is quite obvious if the sword is used in a thrust. If the sword
were being used to chop down on the head, but just barely missed
the head, the force would be enough to not only carry it through
the ear but down into the neck or shoulder. Moreover, an unbound
man would almost certainly be attempting to dodge to blow, and in
the dodge tilting his head to the side; the angle means that the
sword would bite into the head as well as the ear.
In short, the incident could not have happened as
described, aside from the implausibility of Peter doing such a
thing in a crowd of armed men and not being seized or suffering
retaliatory injury. (Although if he were seized, it certainly
makes him being in the courtyard at the trial more plausible.)
Second, an "ear" has obvious symbolism--as in "the walls
have ears."
Third, note the name given by John to the man. The name
Malchus means "king."
Fourth, one of the late Hasmoneans deprived another
Hasmonean of high priesthood by biting off his ear before the
crowd.
This symbolic reading doesn't seem to undercut your
suggestion of Zealotry, but tends to support it.
One of the reasons I'm fascinated by the Big 4 Gospels is
the unmistakable sensation they give me of something *very*
strange going on behind the scenes.
... "Custer Died For Your Sins"
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: end times are upon us
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:43:08
EID:cdf5 219b6d60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b1003e9
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 25 Dec 96 05:47am, CHRIS GREEN wrote to DAVID RICE:
CG> Is it correct David, that the LDS have a 'Sacred Mountain' in which
they
CG> are supposed to store their genealogy records?
Yes. There was a book about 3-4 years back that was
serialized in _The New Yorker_ and titled "The Mountain of Names."
... When my computer goes fishing, it runs Turbot Pascal.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Life on Earth
|Date: 27 Dec 96 09:46:25
EID:1d3e 219b4dc0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c3e84f0
Hello Al!
I noticed with amusement a headline today in our local morning
paper Business Day - "New Theory on Life Raises Stink".
Dr Andrei Arkhipov, of the Institute of Radio Astronomy in
Kharkiv, Ukraine, has theorized that the ultimate origin of
life on Earth began with microbes which had come through the
atmosphere as lumps of alien waste.
Using our own space programs as an example of deep space
pollution Dr Arkhipov said: "Freeze-dried spores in drops
of rocket fuel and human faecal matter from our space crafts
are quite well adapted to interstellar travel".
His theory has already created a stir among religious
commentators, with the Catholic Church sounding least
shocked. Nicholas Coote representing the view of the
Catholic Bishops' Conference in Britain said the alien
dung theory was ultimately not very different from that
of the biblical account of an origin from dust.
Rev Clive Calver, director-general of the Evangelical
Alliance was, however, upset. "First we read that we are
the creation of God - then the scientists say we are
descended from apes. Now we are some sort of alien poo!
How much further can we sink?"
I must say Doc Arkhipov is a bit late out with his
'news'. Robert Silverberg incorporated exactly the same
thing in his book "The Masks of Time" in 1968 - even to
the reactions of the religious faction :-)
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:55:35
EID:79c2 21989ee0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c395de
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72775058
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Martin Goldberg, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
21 Dec 96 16:27:50:
MG> Why do we need to be saved? Answer the question or we will start
MG> laughing at you.
Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
I repeat it in case you missed it.
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I have yet
SS> to have a christian answer this simple question.
Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone need
a
liver?"
The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the universe
and
everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when we
look
at the world around us there are a lot of things that don't look good -
war,
oppression, crime, sickness, and so on. Christians regard these as evil,
or as
sin. "Sin" means falling short of the target, or failing to reach a goal.
The
world has somehow failed to reach the goal of "goodness".
Christians believe that this evil, or sin, is not just a random occurrence,
but is actually caused by a power or force that promotes it. There is ill
will
behind it. Christians believe that the world is enemy-occupied territory,
and
the enemy who occupies it is the devil, or the satan (which means enemy,
adversary, opponent, public prosecutor, district attorney).
Christians believe that the world is in effect one big concentration camp,
with Satan as the commandant.
Christians believe that God did not want to leave the world in the mess
it had
got into, but acted to get out of the mess. God became man, and entered
the
concentration camp in the guide of a prisoner. The guards knew there was
something odd about this particular prisoner, but weren't sure what. They
decided to get rid of him, and executed him but that was their downfall.
As
the Christian scriptures put it, "None of the rulers of this age understood
this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory"
(I Co
2:8).
Chrsitians believe that Jesus has bound the devil, and broken down the gates
of the concentration camp. Christians believe that this is good news, and
that
they should tell others the news that the commandant is locked up, and the
gates are broken down. Being saved, therefore, means being saved from the
devil, evil, sin and death.
So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone needs
to be
saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration camp.
Of course if you don't share those assumptions, and you don't think the
world
is like that, then it won't make much sense to you. You might think that
there
is neither good nor evil, and that there is no purpose in existence, and
that
life came into being purely by chance and that the events that we observe
or
think we observe are just one damn thing after another with nothing either
better or worse than anything else. If you see things that way, then being
saved is no different from being damned.
... Martin Goldberg's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 19:58:36
EID:cde1 21989f40
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c395df
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72775863
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Martin Goldberg, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
21 Dec 96 16:29:26:
MG> The intelligent person would realize that the question "Why do we need
MG> to be saved?" requires the evidence of a god first and then the
MG> evidence that salvation can be accomplished through belief in a
MG> savior...which you can give evidence for as well.
MG> This is what the intelligent person would have seen in the question.
The intelligent person would be aware that the question is meaningless.
It immediately raises a further question of what "need" means in that context.
If it means wish or desire, then the only person who can answer it is the
one doing the wishing or desiring (or not doing it, as the case may be).
I'm not sure what else it could mean.
... God save Donald Duck, vaudeville and variety - The Kinks
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: christian freewill TWO
|Date: 24 Dec 96 20:08:52
EID:95d6 2198a100
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e0
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bcc481
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Al Schroeder, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 21
Dec 96 07:32:03:
SH> And it might be interesting to take a look at the activities of the
SH> League of Militant Atheists in the 1920s and 1930s... it seems that
SH> even those who claim to have no religion at all have similar
SH> tendencies.
AS> Hmmm?? I know little about the League of Militant Atheists, whoever
AS> they may be. Would you expand a little further?
They were a government-sponsored group in the USSR in that period who tried
to ram their beliefs down everyone's throat.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... God save little shops, china cups and virginity - The Kinks
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 27 Dec 96 08:52:40
EID:c99b 219b4680
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e2
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 001f6263
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to David Worrell, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 21
Dec 96 03:21:00:
SH> There are some questions that people need to answer for
SH> themselves,
DW> I see. You are disregarding a command from the being you claim to
DW> follow. You must be one of those False Christian Scum we keep hearing
DW> so much about.
... David Worrell's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 27 Dec 96 08:53:56
EID:79c2 219b46a0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32c395e3
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72775058
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Martin Goldberg, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
21 Dec 96 16:27:50:
MG> You are a fucking moron.
... Martin Goldberg's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DANNY BOY TAKES WOLFF
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:19:24
EID:318b 219a5260
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 301042a2
On (24 Dec 96) Roger Hunter wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> But I'm not a creationist, asshole! I'm an agnostic shit for
BW> brains!
BW> Clearly I was referring to Martin as shit for brains. But of
BW> course you people don't want to look at this intelligently, but
BW> rather look at it as dumb as you can. And here I am, Bill Wolff
BW> exposing your foolishness over and over again! Don't you people
BW> have any shame?
RH> Clearly you were referring to yourself above. Otherwise you
RH> would have said "I'm an agnostic, shit for brains!"
Clearly if you read the rest of the message, it would have been very
clear to you that I was referring to Martin. So your bold claim:
"Clearly you were referring to yourself..." is a very bold lie on
your part. But I'm use to dealing with you children all of the time.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Boring moron
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:19:29
EID:3ca4 219a5260
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 0fd5d194
REPLY: 1:261/1137 990086f5
On (25 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson wrote to Bill Wolff...
What can I say Curtis? I have to deal with these fools on a daily
level. They can't tell the difference between an agnostic and a
theist. They can't comprehend what they read and they frequently
quote out of context. I have tried to teach them something new
(alternative views) for over 3 years now and they haven't learned a
damn thing during all of this time.
Of course I am hard on them. I try to shame and embarrass them into
learning for once in their life. Although they just don't seem to
care. Or better yet, they are too stupid to care. So what would you
say to students who hasn't learned anything new in over three years?
So I feel I am perfectly justified in my actions.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
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|From: Bill Wolff
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:21:08
EID:11e6 219a52a0
MSGID: 1:115/769.2 616f4039
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 729d5c11
On (24 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Al Schroeder...
MG> ... The only time I become unpleasent is when we get morons
MG> like Appleton or Wolff...
Why haven't you learned anything new in the past three years Martin?
Why do I constantly have to correct your lies and your quoting out
of context for? And you want to pretend that you are not acting like
a moron? Okay Martin, I'm giving you another chance to redeem
yourself. Please intelligently comment on the below:
*****
JsnowNYT: Dr. Sagan, a question from Diaspar about religion: Is it
necessary to not believe in God to be scientific?
CarlSagan1: It depends entirely on what you mean by God. But, being
scientific merely means depending on evidence. We don't believe
things because they make us feel good, but because the evidence is
compelling enough to convince even a dedicated skeptic. Some
definitions of God satisfy this criteria and many don't.
Copyright 1996 The New York Times
*****
This is exactly the same thing that I was saying in my message
posted in the DR_DEBUG echo over three years ago. Then years later,
Carl Sagan states the very same thing. Although Carl Sagan is by
far, the better teacher.
Oh btw, since Carl Sagan and I agree on so many issues, then when
you mistakenly call me a fundy, it's like calling Carl Sagan one as
well. Sadly, you disagree with me and Carl Sagan on so many views.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The WIN95/GEOS Connection Point (1:115/769.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:43:22
EID:ed95 219a4d60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c248f9
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c0230a1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Gwenny:
MM>> I have seen a good many mummies during my travels on four
MM>> continents, but never one which left me in any doubt that
MM>> this person was very dead indeed (the oldest in Egypt, the
MM>> most recent Mao Tse Dung in China, and many in between).
GtP>> Amazing what they can do with wax, isn't it. Hey, since you
GtP>> know so much about mummies, could you tell me where to find
GtP>> info on the caucasian mummies they found out in northern
GtP>> China. . .Mongolia or Siberia I believe. I read an article
GtP>> about them in Discover magazine several years ago and now
GtP>> can't remember enough details to do a good search on them.
MM> Sorry Gwenny, I am by no means an expert. I simply happen
MM> to have seen lots of mummies (stone dead), but apart from
MM> Mao I saw nobody else's in China.
It's okay. Just thought I would ask. Someone else told me.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... * * <- Tribbles o o o <- Picard tribbles
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Jesus needed...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:45:48
EID:6f49 219a4da0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c24a3c
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32bfe321
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Gwenny:
DM>> man on the street. Of course the wise ones with numerous wives would
DM>> let the harem share the attentions of non-reproducing boy-toys:
DM>> dirty little secrets have a way of keeping women satisfied and quiet
DM>> about it, which redounded to the credit of the sultan himself (WOW!
DM>> Wotta Stud! 387 wives and _all_ of them unable to get up before ten
DM>> in the morning!)
GtP>> Hmmmmm, where were we having a discussion about this recently. Maybe
GtP>> Gay Pagan. We were speculating about what percentage of the harem
GtP>> was at least bi and whether or not eunuch DID do their part to keep
GtP>> the harem placid. I mean, even with out a penis, there is much a
man
GtP>> can do.
DM> Paying close attention over a protracted period, inch by
DM> inch, does a great deal to enhance one's popularity.
Indeed! In fact, one the best lovers I ever had did just that and I never
missed the fact that he couldn't function normally with a woman.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Discount Christians: We save any soul for $29.95!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:51:41
EID:fe2a 219a4e60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c24b2b
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7291e2e6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Don:
DW>>> You shouldn't really blame yourself. Both 'bamies and
DW>>> Texassans share one important trait - they're all dumb as
DW>>> rocks. It is easy to get the two confused.
DM>> I'll let _you_ explain that one to the other two Martins.
MG> Now's there's something you don't see every day. Someone from Tennessee
MG> explaining "stupid".
But he's such a good example. Asshole! I don't why he has to be trashing
my daughter because she's overweight. Maybe all the women in his state
are undernourished because they don't have time to eat between keeping their
fathers, uncles and brothers satisfied.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... FATAL LOGIC ERROR - Engage Brain and (R)etry
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 26 Dec 96 09:55:57
EID:fe2a 219a4ee0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c24d8c
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 729d5c11
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Al:
MG> I will argue the topic with you or Mike or Lee or anyone else here.
I will
MG> tell them when I think that they are dancing around the point or whatever.
MG> The only time I become unpleasent is when we get morons like Appleton
or
MG> Wolff. The conference is not real life, although it partially mirrors
it.
MG> Thos of us tht realize this, will be a lot happier.
I don't understand why some folks can't understand this. It would save
everyone alot of problems. I, for one, know that each person here either
consciouisly or unconciously creates a "persona". Whether that persona
is merely an amplified version of self (as mine) or quite different (more
like Sean) depends on the person. This medium requires you to do so. I
exaggerate my "dirty ole lady" side. For the infrequent times that I have
created secondary characters I seem to have done so successfully (no one
has ever caught me ) by merely changing the exaggerated characteristics
and not using . . . so much.
And you are right, those who don't believe everything they read ARE happier.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Cats and ferrets DON'T have the same paw prints.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:04:44
EID:01d9 219a5080
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c24fbb
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32c0b0e9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Gerry!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Gerry say to Richard:
RS> CG>> I wish everyone a pleasant December the 25th, and a Good New Year.
RS> GD>> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid
RS> GD>> of the word Christmas and what it stands for?
RS>> He is in England, where it is called something else. And it
RS>> has different names around the world.
GD> I'll bet it's called Christmas in England...
It's also called Yule, even though Yule is specifically the Winter Solstice.
RS>> Don't be anglocentric.
GD> Excuse me?
The American propensity for believing that all the Universe uses the same
language and has the same view of things as they do. We are VERY sheltered
in this country. If I ever doubted it, a recent newspaper article on the
evangelical movement reminded me. Christians are always bragging about
how much of the world they are converting. Truth is, there were only a
couple of tiny places where the MAJORITY of the people profess a belief
in Jeshua and his ghost dad. A good portion of the planet has never even
seen a missionary and at least two thirds doesn't have enough converts to
support a church. Yet we blithely go along believing that everyone celebrates
Christmas.
RS>> He's expressing it that way because he wants to.
GD> I can appreciate that, but why are you speaking for Chris?
RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
GD> This is an English echo, I thought... Sorry, but I can call you names
GD> in a different language too...
Most of us are in English speaking countries and so, out of courtesy, we
speak English. Although there was a discussion last week about the proper
way to spell some Gaelic words. I don't believe that Richard's little macro
is an insult. I had (and I don't really know Latin) kinda translated it
to mean something along the lines of "What, am I worried?" I could be wrong.
Just about the time I think I've figured it out, I'm wrong.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... * <- Tribble. *> - <- Tribble Firing A Bow.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:14:19
EID:c471 219aa1c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 7d081b33
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 219088a9
On (25 Dec 96) Christian Hedemark got back to Lynda Bustilloz...
LB> CH> The famous line around here is "prove it".
CH> LB>Oh? Do you have any evidence of that?
CH> Yup!
CH> I think you can catch on, if you don't respond too quickly.
So, where's the evidence, not the bullshit? Got any, other
than the bullshit, of course.
... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago hit song of the Beast.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:28:31
EID:6921 219aa380
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 adbc1ab6
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f566951a
On (24 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Shelby Sherman...
JS> You have no clue about what I see, or what my thoughts are. Just
That's only because you have yet to emanate any brainwaves.
... Why, oh why, Lord, did you create stupid people too?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 26 Dec 96 20:41:57
EID:bbfc 219aa520
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 b54d14b4
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 219088a8
On (25 Dec 96) Christian Hedemark got back to Dave Hamilton...
CH> I will respond to your questions and commentaries when you drop the
CH> vulgarity you have used towards me here and elsewhere.
Just what the fuck did he say to you? Did he call you an
asshole? Or did he allude to the fact that you are a
bastard born of a god damned whore?
Let me know. I'll take care of it, pink boy.
... "How talk you, yes. That, do we. Idiot, fucking, you are.": Yoda
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:07:05
EID:9a31 219b08e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 6013a06f
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 cee5f65a
On (23 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Karen Davis...
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
KD> I don't consider myself to be doing something readily out of simple
KD> obedience.
JS> That is fine, and your business. We were, however, taliking about
JS> Jesus Christ here, not Karen Davis.
IOW, your godling had no free will.
... The ministry: a dating service for pedophiles.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:09:16
EID:9a31 219b0920
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 706a541c
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 8617ee11
On (24 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa...
JS> Out of obedience to His Father.
DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
JS> He didn't.
Stop contraticting yourself, Jimbo.
... Why, oh why, Lord, did you create stupid people too?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:23:33
EID:c620 219b0ae0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 c4857744
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c28ffa
On (26 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Richard Smith...
RS> were true, then you would fare worse than him, if for no
RS> other reason than your spurious use of English, as I've
RS> pointed out in the corrections here.
NC> Anyone with any level of intelligence can disceren from Mr
NC> Martian's psot that he doesn't understand the Bible... It
NC> doesn't take a
NC> scholar to figure that one out.
Which, judging by what you wrote above, is the only way you
could have possibly "figured that out".
NC> also) but his lack of understanding about the nature of God,
NC> causes me
NC> doubt of his using it.
You don't even know what your own bible says about understanding
what your "god" is.
... Saul probably never hit the mark except for being a misogynist pervert.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:28:18
EID:1374 219b0380
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c3183e
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A5D4380
PID: GED3 2.5
Monday December 23 1996 19:20, Michael Hardy wrote to Jesse Jones:
MH> was not among them. I consider those same people more genuine
MH> friends than I do those who have begun treating me decently only when
MH> my ideas changed.
I'll just go back to treating you like a moron, then. :)
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Billy "Liar" Wolff
|Date: 27 Dec 96 00:54:51
EID:4723 219b06c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c31ed6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72a9aada
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday December 25 1996 13:08, Martin Goldberg wrote to ALL:
MG> Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
The doctor dropped him on his head when he was born.
There just happened to be a scalpel stuck in a crack in the floor, directly
under li'l Billy, sharp end up.
The scalpel was coated with feces from an operation on the previous patient's
intestines.
Yes, Billy is a shit-for-brains.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 124/8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Chris Brown
|Sub: God *is* dead.
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:02:08
EID:22eb 219b0840
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c3206f
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 32c1e2bd
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday December 26 1996 02:28, Chris Brown wrote to All:
CB> This explanation may not be entirely accurate
It is not.
CB> or make perfect sense,
It does not.
CB> but you should be able to see what I'm saying.
Only because I am already familiar with quantum fluctuations (what you attempted,
without much success, to describe).
CB> And please don't go quoting bible scripture back it me.
How 'bout the Koran, then? The Rig Vedas? The Tao Te Ching? Homer?
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:04:20
EID:c87c 219b0880
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c320b8
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 219088a8
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday December 25 1996 15:41, Christian Hedemark wrote to Dave Hamilton:
CH> You asked:
DH>> And where were you reading this, exactly?
CH> And then went on to add vulgarity.
CH> I will respond to your questions and commentaries when you drop the
CH> vulgarity you have used towards me here and elsewhere.
Fuck off, shithead..
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3666/401 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:08:07
EID:4791 219b0900
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c32210
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32bffbe3
PID: GED3 2.5
Sunday December 22 1996 10:05, Steve Hayes wrote to David Worrell:
SH> Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
SH> I repeat it in case you missed it.
SH> Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone
SH> Christians believe
SH> Christians believe
SH> Christians believe
SH> Christians believe
SH> Christians believe
SH> Chrsitians believe
SH> Christians believe
All sorts of silly shit. You still did not answer the question. Your pathetic
attempt at redirecting it:
SH> So from a Christian point of view, the question is not why anyone
SH> needs to be saved, but why anyone needs to stay in the concentration
SH> camp.
Is obviously just another dodge. Try again.
Do I need to be saved?
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:58:53
EID:dc87 219b0f40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c32d6f
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 3205e611
PID: GED3 2.5
Sunday December 22 1996 15:32, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Quantum Torpedos, of course. Godkillers.
JB> Equip yourself with weapons to kill something you don't believe
JB> exists?
Of course. I've also got a couple of Mugwump mortars lying around here someplace.
JB> How logical is _that_?
That all depends on your point of view, doesn't it?
JB>> Why not just quit using my name altogether?
DW>> Then I'd *never* get any mail from you.
JB> Hmmm... Why would you -want- any?
Because you dance so prettily, of course.
BTW, there's an article written specifically for you in the current issue
of _Skeptical Inquirer_. You'll have no doubt as to which article it is
when you pick up the issue.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Thanksgiving
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:16:05
EID:cabd 219b0a00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c323b5
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32bfa665
PID: GED3 2.5
Tuesday December 24 1996 09:45, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Glen is one of those goofy pagans, Jesse. Get your shit together,
DW>> ok?
GP> And you are a misogynist,
Not in the sense you use it, no. I'm a misanthropist. I'm only a misogynist
in that "gyn" is a subset of "anthro."
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:17:47
EID:05d9 219b0a20
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c32433
REPLY: 1:358/1 f54cdac4
PID: GED3 2.5
Monday December 23 1996 01:38, Quentin Fai wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Females (with very few exceptions) weigh less then males of the
DW>> same height/build. Your daughter is shorter *and* heavier than I
DW>> am. It's a simple equation. Your adamant denial of the solution
DW>> to the equation does nothing but amuse me even more.
QF> I'm a little curious as to why this is a concern of yours.
Because I was bored.
QF> She's not even old enough to date you,
That depends on the jurisdiction, doesn't it?
QF> and even if she was, nobody would be making you date her.
I fail to see just where the connection between dating and this subject
is.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: David Worrell
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ,
|Date: 27 Dec 96 01:57:26
EID:4b40 219b0f20
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c32d30
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e426
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday December 25 1996 07:04, Al Schroeder wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> At least she isn't a stealth baptist. I seem to have nothing to
DW>> worry about.
AS> For all you know she's not really a baptist, but a stealth Wiccan,
AS> sent by the Todds...
As I've never had a stealth Wiccan before, at least it would be a change.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: boring moron
|Date: 27 Dec 96 16:15:37
EID:ea6b 219b81e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b129d46
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>> You have the honor of being the occasion for the coining of
>> a new portmanteau word:
>> Wolff, you are a boron.
RV> Is that a mass_less particle, from Al's 'Sample Space' ?
>
There's a real potential for typo disaster in the class of
particles called hadrons.
... Tagline: I'm it.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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PATH: 261/1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 27 Dec 96 16:15:38
EID:48e8 219b81e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b129dbd
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
RV> GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
RV> GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
RV> * SLMR 2.1a * ...The Popemobile: proof prayer doesn't work.
RV> --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
RV> * Origin: -***- Devil's Advocate -***- (1:221/1503)
... Landfill full: garbage count exceeded.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1 2342
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 27 Dec 96 16:15:39
EID:676a 219b81e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 9b129e34
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 26 Dec 96 01:48pm, AL SCHROEDER wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
CJ>> My apologies for some of the tone in my most recent posts
CJ>> to you. But I've at last OD'd on your sheer volume, and need
CJ>> a break. I would weary of even the most _sympatico_ correspondent
CJ>> if they persistently sent me 18-20 lengthy missives at a time.
AS> Understandable. Enjoy the break.
The gift of time is a wonderful thing.
AS> ... "And my ending is despair unless I be reliev'd by
AS> prayer"--Shakespeare --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
AS> * Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
... Conan was a hacker.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1451
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: I forget
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:37:19
EID:789e 219b6ca0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418470
REPLY: 1:229/622 32c2d463
};> Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Sean McCullough <:(
>> There is a difference between passing laws to restrict weapons from an
>> armed society and eliminating those weapons.
SM> Veritas. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
DH> Yes. For perhaps a few generations. The whole cultural
DH> psychosocial attitude has to change, and that would be a
DH> 50-year project were it to be undertaken.
Or, perhaps, the society will do as the Japanese did. When
weapons were outlawed in old Japan, the people eventually
turned ordinary impliments into weapons. The nunchaku, for
instance, were originally for flailing the hull off of rice
grains. The bo staff was originally just a staff. The sai
orginally had some other use as well, etc., etc., etc. . . .
As a personal observance: we don't buy gun toys for our boys.
Never have. We WILL buy plastic ninja swords, etc., but no
projectile weapons at all. Yet they still simulate guns
while playing.
It would appear that people are going to have weapons,
regardless.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Billy "Liar" Wolff
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:44:18
EID:5d2b 219b6d80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418471
REPLY: 1:123/67 32c29753
};> Jack Kinney wrote in a message to Martin Goldberg <:(
JK> 25 Dec 96 13:08, quoting Martin Goldberg to ALL:
MG> Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
JK> He seems perfectly normal to me.
Uh oh, Martin, what did you do? He's reproducing now . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Das Uber Noel
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:45:39
EID:6151 219b6da0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418472
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 04964154
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (19 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to ALL...
RS> PREACHER THREATENS BOYCOTT: MERRY ''CHRISTMAS'' -- OR ELSE!
DC> I'd term it 'RC', but that may get confused with 'RCC'. Any
DC> other suggestions?
Tactical nukes? From orbit? It's the only way to be sure.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:46:29
EID:5025 219b6dc0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418473
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 d612dbb7
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Chris Green <:(
DC> On (21 Dec 96) Chris Green got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> animals in the last 100 yrs or so that is beginning to make
DC> the Dinosaur Extinction pale in comparison.
cg> How do you think that nature will compensate for this population
cg> imbalance?
DC> Your the MESA member. You figure it out.
Actually Dan, I believe his membership is a bit flacid.
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Holiday Wishes: [1]
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:47:26
EID:b320 219b6de0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418474
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 022782d1
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (25 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to ALL...
RS> Well everyone, it's that day. Today we celebrate a
RS> holiday which is the birth date of a man born of a virgin,
RS> with lowly shepherds in attendance. He was a man known as
DC> [..]
RS> will go to paradise forever. That's right, today is THE
RS> Taurobolia in which we celebrate the Messiah Mithra. {A}
DC> Great list and great myths!
Thanx. What I love about them is that they ALL pre-date
Xtianity. Hell, why Xtianity doesn't pay a royalty I'll
never know . . .
DC> Wonder if the fundys will
DC> bother to do the research to realize the origin of their
DC> godling myth?
You don't think they'd just prefer to say IS NOT a lot?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: I got my Xmas wish! [1]
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:51:11
EID:dbef 219b6e60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418475
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 607c072a
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (23 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
jj> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the
jj> "Great Holysmoke" by this time next year.
DC> Does that mean we are the Great Satan and John is the
DC> Ayotollah?
RS> Could be. Whose turn is it to wear the turban and be the
RS> Great Satan . . . yours?
DC> Nahhh. I don't wear hats, except when skiing or sailing.
Okay, then . . . I'll wear the turban. But you have to wield
the orb of office . . .
jj> this message, and no longer debate or argue about Jesus or
DC> into play. After all, they can't afford to debate what
DC> doesn't exist.
RS> Now let's stand back and check their pockets for silverware
RS> as they file out . . .
DC> We could check them for brains, but we'd never find one.
Not even in their asses?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:53:14
EID:db77 219b6ea0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418476
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 fb2a956c
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Al Schroeder <:(
DC> On (21 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> It's getting to the point that there is nothing that he could
DC> possibly be responsible for, except Jesse Jone's belief in him.
as> And the universe itself existing.
DC> Bought into John Brawley's "proof", I see.
Why not? It's nearly incomprehensible to laymen, it sounds
scientific, and it is impossible to prove. What more could a
waffler want?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:54:47
EID:fa66 219b6ec0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418477
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 68748c36
};> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
DC> On (25 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Lynda Bustilloz...
BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
RS> Now, does Yahveh go to Hell for his sins?
DC> If he does, he should. After all, he allowed Hell to be
DC> created. It's his universe and he should play by the
DC> rules.
I agree. Fair is fair, after all . . .
DC> As it is, he has a bad habit of throwing temper tantrums
DC> like a 3 yr old and crying when he doesn't understand even
DC> basic science.
Yep. His followers tend to follow suit as well . . .
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 27 Dec 96 13:56:45
EID:8538 219b6f00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2c418478
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c2bbfc
};> Glen Todd wrote in a message to Al Schroeder <:(
as> Well, I think there was indeed a living God who responded to Israel.
GT> Yes -- the god of ISRAEL!! NOT by any stretch of the
GT> imagination of any of the rest of the world or of those of
GT> us who are not of Semetic ancestry. Such a ridiculous idea
GT> wasn't even suggested until Saul took off on his egomaniacal
GT> power trip. So why won't they leave us alone?
Basic reading problems?
Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
Richard
Smith
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: physics comedy
|Date: 27 Dec 96 12:21:44
EID:3748 219b62a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32c4164a
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Sue Alexander <=-
ML> (Could you please send me your address again? Total cranial
ML> flatus, I cannot find it...Thanks.)
AARRGH!! Not again!
I don't remember giving you my address, so I presume you would like
Ms Armstrongs. I live just off the shore of Lake Mendota...you know,
the one that had the Statue of Liberty "dropped" in it many years ago?
Or was that after your time here?
I did find her address, however...
D Area: Religious arguments {real names} (Fido: HOLYSMOKE DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Msg#: 1369 Date: 10 Dec 96 09:43:58
From: Marty Leipzig Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: Sue Armstrong Mark:
Subj: True story.
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Sue Armstrong, tossing rocks at sportsnuts (the schist hits the fan),said
to
Marty Leipzig
SA> Making a good die roll, Marty Leipzig cast True story. at Sue
SA> Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Fortunately, no one's said anything while I've been hawking my tome
SA> at the city market, though I have noticed a few people wrinkle their
SA> nose at the title.
ML> I would like to procure a copy. Instructions, please?
SA> Sure. Send $8 US (cheque or money order) to:
Do you accept rubles?
SA> S. Armstrong
SA> 570 Church St. #8
SA> Windsor, Ontario
SA> N9A 4S9
SA> Canada
SA> I'll send it out next-day, but give a couple of weeks allowance for
SA> the post office and all.
Thanks, will do.
... +Origin: PAUL HILL, NETWORK! Killing people for an all-loving Jesus!
-!- Blue Wave/Max v2.30 [NR]
! Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
Sue
... "God has no religion" -- Mahatma Gandhi
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:52:53
EID:0215 219b5680
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 cb491ab7
REPLY: 1:229/622 32bf7b4e
On (24 Dec 96) Dave Hamilton wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DH> About a message of Marilyn Burge to Dave Hamilton:
DH> DH>> One of the
DH> DH>> few U.S. cities that regales with its own Pipe Band is
DH> DH>> Atlanta.
MB> Not so. Portland, Oregon has the Clan McCleay Pipers, and
MB> they sound properly awful.
DH> Ah. Around here, every town with a population of > 5000 has
DH> a pipe band. I wonder where Clan McCleay gets its supplies.
DH> One doesn't buy bag seasoning at the 7-11.
DH> People love the pipes or hate them, but if there is a heaven,
DH> there is a special place for parents who listen while their
DH> children learn them.
Are you telling me the TAKE LESSONS to sound that awful!!??
... I brake for animals; I floor it for Fundies!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:15:00
EID:0063 219b51e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A60D863
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Doug Lee <=-
AS> Cattybtch, Mike's Hepcat, Katerine's KatPurr, Judith's ChinaCat (don't
AS> ask me how the cat motif got started...), etc.
With Prewett calling Lynda a 'catty bitch' just about the time the
channel was getting going. She adopted it as her nick.
Those of us who have not been declawed decided to follow suit.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:26:00
EID:0bd4 219b5340
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A60D864
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Ronald Vass <=-
CJ> Ten hours to go. At least I've caught a good station that
CJ> *isn't* playing Christmas music.
Most tasteless holiday environment...Red Lobster on Mall Drive, North
Charleston, SC.
RAP christmas carols at audio level 5 1/2 (out of 6).
I really wanted lobster for my birthday. We couldn't take this, though,
and left before ordering. Ended up with mahi-mahi at the Hilton. In peace.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:47:00
EID:181d 219b55e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A60D865
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marilyn Burge spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
MB> hospital for an MRI. She has a tumor on her brain. The
MB> surgery is at 10 tomorrow morning. The neurosurgeon said
Am seeing this on the 27th. I hope your sister is doing better.
What a year this has been for you all. I hope '97, if not better, is
at least disaster neutral for you.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 27 Dec 96 10:58:00
EID:ec64 219b5740
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A60D866
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Rick Mcfarlane spoke thusly to John Musselwhite <=-
RM> hitting the mule over the head with a 2x4 might work? I've concluded
I saw a better one than that last night...one that BELONGS here. It said:
Hit him over the head with a clue x 4.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 27 Dec 96 16:19:00
EID:605e 219b8260
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A6013EF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
AS> participants here, and Mike's is TRULY funny...his face plastered on
DAMMIT, AL! You knew damned well that information about that picture was
not to be released publicly until it was up on my page and available for
viewing. Which won't be for another few days yet as I'm trying to get
some more ready and coded. I had no objection to it being passed around,
but I guess the sentence 'I'm kinda keeping quiet about these until I have
them ready for the page' just sailed right over your head. (Even though
you acknowledged that it was probably a good idea.)
A reference to the work would have been nice. Saying that it is funny
could have built interest and given my page a few more hits once I get
the stuff posted. But nooooooooo....you have to go and describe it in
detail. You only forgot the color scheme. Or did that little detail just
slip by you?
Is this your way of getting back at me for rejecting YOUR ideas of what
I should do with the pictures? If I remember correctly, I had to tell you
TWICE that this was **MY** vision...and holysmokers as *I* see them...not
yours.
Before you start blustering about 'innocent remarks' and mistakes, etc.,
remember that you are describing this picture IN DETAIL, to someone who
you
KNOW (and I wish I had 24pt lettering for that one) has already seen it.
The rest have you to thank, Al, for the fact that NOBODY else will get
a sneak preview of ANY of the rest of them.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:18:00
EID:f4c7 219b5a40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A6013F0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
Being that Al doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, does anyone know
where I can find a .gif of a pile of bullshit?
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
AS> participants here, and Mike's is TRULY funny...his face plastered on
DAMMIT, AL! You knew damned well that information about that picture was
not to be released publicly until it was up on my page and available for
viewing. Which won't be for another few days yet as I'm trying to get
some more ready and coded. I had no objection to it being passed around,
but I guess the sentence 'I'm kinda keeping quiet about these until I have
them ready for the page' just sailed right over your head. (Even though
you acknowledged that it was probably a good idea.)
The rest have you to thank, Al, for the fact that NOBODY else will get
a sneak preview of ANY of the rest of them.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:37:00
EID:181d 219b5ca0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A6013F1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marilyn Burge spoke thusly to Richard Smith <=-
MB> Eileen, unfortunately, falls in the other 1 percent of the
MB> cases. They do not yet know the origin of the cancer, but
There are no words to tell you how sorry I am.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 20 Dec 96 15:22:00
EID:515f 21947ac0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59226A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
CJ> Whether or not Wells thought it was a war should have been
CJ> indicated by the title he gave his novel--but it seems that was a
CJ> little too subtle for you.
Al is beginning to rate a whole new category of logical fallacy:
Argumentum ad Fictionus. Whenever he can't bring himself to look up
facts, he resorts to fiction (usually science fiction). And the rest
of us are supposed to accept these arguments without barfing all over
our keyboards.
... Now, Here's John Bobbitt with a few words about Crazy Glue.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Star Goat loves each
|Date: 20 Dec 96 15:49:00
EID:5b65 21947e20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59226B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Ronald Vass spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
RV> So far, none of the women like math, then too, they don't like
RV> computers either.
I like computers. But I'm not a programmer and don't want to be one.
I understand enough to be able to fix most things that can go wrong,
but won't even attempt the more esoteric.
As for math...I do it. But I DON'T have to like it.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: funny nativity
|Date: 20 Dec 96 17:07:00
EID:6999 219488e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A59226C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
This came across my bouvier mailing list. One of the participants there
also raises donkeys and llamas and myriad other furry creatures.
I just seems right for this echo. (Jasper, btw, is the donkey...
affectionately known as THE BOSS)
__________________________________________________________________________
Jasper's Nativity Scene by Emily Phillips
Whirling spotlights, Joseph tottering along with the flu, Mary (played by
Jericha) falling off Jasper's back and the end of a
long week of treating Jasper with psyllium contributed to making Jasper's
theatrical debut before 75 college dignitaries, their
families and students unforgettable last night.
Kept on ice at the back door for 60 minutes of speechifying by academic
spin
experts, Jasper was pleased to scoot into the
darkened gym at the Nazarene Indian Bible College. He allowed himself to
be
tucked away behind an adobe village
consisting of stacked cardboard boxes. Nothing but a few wobbles of that
structure gave the least clue that anybody was
there but the snoring Joseph (Jonathan Bear). After the resplendant, white
sheeted angel communicated the exciting
news to Mary in front of the village, and prodded Joseph into fits of
wakeful leg waving, Jasper crept from concealment and
stood like a rock as Mary climbed aboard... and climbed aboard... and
climbed aboard.
Seems nobody had thought of a dress rehearsal. Mary and Joseph both became
so entangled in their long robes during the
leg up process that a popeyed Jasper offered to take off solo for his grand
circuit. The brave singer whose job it was to
warble "Rejoice Emmanuel!" until the Holy Family materialized at the stage
went through her repertoire two-and-a-half times
while the Travellers got themselves together.
Joseph was wobbly with fever, but he got Jasper and Mary halfway around
the
gym before the spotlight struck the Christmas
tree in front of them. Fresh from the Ramah Navajo Reservation, this giant
piqon is 15' high and and 12' across, every inch
tinselled and lighted. Jasper never saw such a sight before. He bounced.
Down went Mary. More leg-upping, a dignified
march, all the way to the tree. There The Boss paused for a sample of
bough... Joseph struggled, the audience roared and
the singer called for reinforcements at the microphone. Mary administered
various powerful kicks and finally Jasper got the
job done.
As Mary slithered from the shiny black back, puffs of dust rose to surround
the angels ranged on a stairway above the stage.
An airy touch of folklorico. Mutters of "Nobody said Jesus was a Cabbage
Patch kid!" were heard from Joseph's direction
as the couple took their places among seven stuffed sheep and five little
pigs.
When the carol singing came to an end with a last flourish of shaky
spotlights, the college president advanced upon Jasper to
express his personal appreciation. I handed him a cookie, he popped it in
Jasper's mouth -- and splat! The donk could hold
on no longer. His psyillium was working. Emily
^
< >
|
(@@@)
(@@@@@)
(@@@@@@@)
(@@@@@@@@@)\ * /
(@@@@@@@@@) \^/
___ @@____/{0 0}
/ || \ /
/ ( || ) (_)
/ ||--||--||
* || ||
^^ ^^
!Feliz Navidad de Nuevo Mexico!
... Trimmed the Christmas tree, gave it a crew-cut.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 21 Dec 96 00:26:00
EID:0720 21950340
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5A8795
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Rice spoke thusly to All <=-
DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
Uh...I never saw it.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Fredric Rice
|Date: 21 Dec 96 00:28:00
EID:0d73 21950380
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5A8796
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Rice spoke thusly to All <=-
DR> Fredric Rice will be away from HOLYSMOKE for a week.
Should we notify his family?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Mustard Bath
|Date: 21 Dec 96 08:50:00
EID:7000 21954640
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Rice spoke thusly to Fredric Rice <=-
DR> Drinking water and mustard--- what more does a person
DR> need?!
Tofu hot dogs and a little sauerkraut?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: feed
|Date: 21 Dec 96 07:08:00
EID:b04b 21953900
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to Mimi Milstein <=-
DW> Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
Here, have some fudge. A brownie. Toll-house cookies. CHOCOLATE PIE.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 21 Dec 96 08:32:00
EID:0bd2 21954400
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Mimi Milstein spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
MM> I like various dishes which has pasta incorporated - but the
MM> pasta on it's own... it leaves me indifferent.
You've never eaten fresh home-made pasta, have you? Around here I make
my own noodles (when I have time) and we eat them with just a little
butter and nothing else. It would be a crime to cover them up in sauce.
Now, if I could just get a pasta machine so I could form the dough into
other shapes besides noodles.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 21 Dec 96 10:32:00
EID:6c59 21955400
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Marty Leipzig <=-
AS> That third kid could have been any of mine. (Or yours, if they are
AS> still of school age. Or anyone's here.)
As much as I dislike guns of all types, the responsibility here is the
MOTHER'S for not securing the weapon where a child could not get to it.
Nobody else's...and certainly not the government's.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 21 Dec 96 10:36:00
EID:e3bf 21955480
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Alan Hess spoke thusly to John Jeanneault <=-
AH> Actually, they malign Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and other
AH> religions as well.
Pagans and rabid atheists, also. Don't matter who you are or what your
alignment. Sooner or later EVERYONE here takes a pie in the face.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: teacher
|Date: 21 Dec 96 14:59:00
EID:ddd3 21957760
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5ADBB8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
DC> Can you do a recall in your state? It seems just about time
DC> they should be taken by the ear, led to water, and drowned.
This IS the new schoolboard...only a month old.
DC> It's unpardonable to let them let her get away with what she did.
It's amazing the numbers of letters to the editor in support of this woman.
Anyway, as I was telling JJ before, I have to wonder if this isn't a
subtle attempt to discredit education of any kind with some segments of
the
population. What better way to define a permanent underclass ripe for
the return of instutionalized slavery.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The steve winter faq [2/2
|Date: 21 Dec 96 19:52:00
EID:8fbf 21959e80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5B6E19
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Don Martin spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
DM> So long as there are no real (and livelihood is about as real as
DM> it gets, theological assertions to the contrary notwithstanding)
DM> consequences for Steve's destructive behavior, I would expect to see
Oh, but there will be serious consequences when he loses his suits. He
will end up having to pay court costs and attorney fees for BOTH sides.
And Concentric has him by the balls with their counter-suit because all
they need is just what they have...copies of his posts from about 40
different sources, and his own agreement to their terms of service. The
reason they aren't caving in and paying him off is because they know
they are right and it will essentially bankrupt him when it goes to court.
When that happens, Stevie's going to be too broke to afford the stamps for
snail mail and I doubt if ANY ISP in the country would take a chance on
him. It will be justice to see him get himself thrown out of the computer
community from his own actions.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 21 Dec 96 20:02:00
EID:6d15 2195a040
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5B6E1A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Mimi Milstein spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
MM> Last news from China this poor guy had was probably on
MM> the Boxer revolt.
About the only thing likely that this one knows about the Boxer
Rebellion was when he told his mother that it was Jockeys or nothing.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: fido shits again
|Date: 22 Dec 96 07:50:00
EID:8f24 21963e40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5B8F42
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marilyn Burge spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
MB> No. I didn't see it. Where the hell is it?
Probably haunting someone on the Exotic Lizards echo.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 22 Dec 96 07:55:00
EID:cc38 21963ee0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5B8F43
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Sally Springett spoke thusly to John Jeanneault <=-
SS> You, of course, are an open-minded, fair-minded, reasonable person
SS> who, when he can't win an argument with logic, evidence, and reason,
SS> finds it easier to run away. Makes sense to me.
Actually he is an open-minded, fair-minded, reasonable person who, when
he can't win an argument with logic, evidence and reason, finds it
easier to call for the suppression of a forum that not only allows, but
encourages him to say whatever he likes...including the call for the
destruction of that forum.
Typical fundy tactic. "Yes, I endorse free speech...but only if it
happens to agree with me."
... HOLYSMOKE: sacred airborne particulate byproducts of fundy combustion.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 25 Dec 96 11:59:00
EID:a0db 21995f60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5E3CA5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Curtis Johnson spoke thusly to Steve Hayes <=-
CJ> On 22 Dec 96 10:09am, STEVE HAYES wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
SH> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
CJ> So--what the bloody hell *are* sponge cats?
Oh geez, I forgot to answer this one from him.
Steve, if you're reading...
Call me Eva and pass the sauerkraut.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: oh hell
|Date: 25 Dec 96 12:11:00
EID:d4f1 21996160
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5E3CA6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Lynda Bustilloz spoke thusly to Curtis Johnson <=-
CJ> It's not to late to have the gentle smile for Christmas
CJ> dinner!
LB> Ah, but then comes the inevitable question of what to stuff it with!
Size 10 1/2 hiking boot?
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: query
|Date: 26 Dec 96 07:04:00
EID:0352 219a3880
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5F2A4B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Chris Green spoke thusly to Martin Goldberg <=-
CG> You wouldn't happen to be the Goldberg who was teamed with Sticker?
CG> The same person who Michael Martinez quotes frequently and
ROFLMAOASTC!!!!! Not likely, dear. Martinez was here for a while. THIS
Goldberg is the one who sent about 16 gigabites of stuff REFUTING
everything Martinez said.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Official Countdown
|Date: 26 Dec 96 07:08:00
EID:64ed 219a3900
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5F2A4C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Chris Green spoke thusly to Sue Armstrong <=-
SA> year after, and possibly 2002. Why? Because of terrorist fundy
SA> nutballs who want to FORCE the end of the world and may do so by
CG> very close watch on Sadam Hussein, he isn't a gentleman who forgets
a
CG> slight; and he certainly won't forget the Kuwait affair.
Sue, I'm pretty sure, was talking about the home-grown CHRISTIAN
fundamentalists who firmly believe that the year 2000 is the end of the
world and who now have the technology and positions to see that it
comes about when Jesus doesn't come riding in on a white charger hurling
nukes on his own.
Those who believe that it is 'god's will' may very well try to make what
they see in Daniel and Revelation self-fulfilling prophecies.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 26 Dec 96 10:52:00
EID:105a 219a5680
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5F2A4D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
ML> Some people just can't take a joke.
I wish you could have known the girls in the troop I led.
They always put a sign on their cookie booth 'made with real Girl Scouts'.
Or their reactions to the naked guy in the window across from the
Juliette Lowe house when we were waiting for our tour. (He was waving at
them...and he WASN'T using his hand ) [true story]
Remarks one, 'where's my Playgirl? '
Yells another, 'hey, honey, I've seen better than that in the shower room'.
Snide asides from the rest.
And to think, mothers actually trusted me with their daughters.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: Preston
|Date: 23 Dec 96 06:45:00
EID:da7a 219735a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5CA9E2
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
Got some mail from Preston Simpson. He's still looking for a feed.
Here's most of his post. (Global conspiracy plots deleted for security
reasons.)
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
JB> Quentin still hasn't got laid. The fundies get
I'm trying to feel bad for Quentin, but I've got my
own troubles with that scene. Lately, everyone that I've been even
moderately interested in has been either a Christian who just cannot
understand why I'm an agnostic and so cavalier about throwing my soul
away on principles, or involved with someone else. If this keeps up much
longer, I may have to convert or start killing peoples' SOs. Maybe both.
JB> Things are about normal. But we miss you.
Aww, gee, shucks. I'm kind of hankering to get back into 'Smoke
myself...I haven't had a good knock-down drag-out religious debate with
anyone in months. Hell, I haven't even had an amusing exchange of insults
and personal invective. I'm going through withdrawals.
JB> How goes it with you?
There's the little matter of the relationship front being as depressing
as ever. Christmas, a holiday that I'm not fond of, is just around the
corner and I'm dreading that. The entire year between about halfway
through T'giving and the 31st of December is not very good for me.
Classes are *finally* over; I finished my exams on Wednesday (the
registrar's office was kind enough to schedule three of them for that
day) and expect to do fairly well in my courses. I wrote an absolutely
rotten paper on the annexation of Austria in 1938 (how bad, you ask?
Well, let's just say that I was either flying on or crashing from No Doz
and sleep deprivation while I wrote it and it shows) and got an A on it
(the virgin sacrifice must have helped). An engineering student on campus
ginned up a pamphlet called "What is the Meaning of Life?" and
distributed it; it was a highly scholarly work that
quoted ICR party line exactly. When I sent him mail with a line-by-line
refutation of his arguments, his response was deafening in its silence,
but a bot of his later invited me to attend a meeting of evangelical
Christians on campus. While I know some of them and find them to be nice
people that I respect, I have no urge to walk into a meeting full of
them. They're there to worship and I wouldn't be, so my presence would be
moot and possibly insulting.
Other than all of that, I'm doing fine. You?
--P. G. Simpson
(dragons rescued--virgins slain)
P.S.- feel free to re-post this in 'Smoke. If Worrell or McKenzie
complains because I don't link to their pages anymore, tell 'em it's
because their pages DON'T FREAKING EXIST ANYMORE. Sheesh. It's
disconcerting to follow a link that you've put on your very own page and
find out that the place you linked to is empty cybernetic space.
And yes, if I can find a way to, I'll start carrying Holysmoke again.
See you 'round.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: I didn't get this
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:12:00
EID:b749 21987180
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E0D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Karen Davis spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
KD> I can understand the teacher's frustration but not the actions. All
KD> teachers have come across situations which have angered them.
Maybe so. A call to the child's parents would have been a better
alternative. I wonder why that wasn't the FIRST recourse? From what I
have seen she only tried to impress on the child how necessary it was
to bring her glasses. She never talked to the mother.
... Dj
Stew: leftovers
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:14:00
EID:06a0 219871c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E0E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Quentin Fai spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
QF> I'm actually getting some counselling to go along with them. So, maybe
QF> there is hope for me after all. :)
Well, WE know there's hope for you. We just want *you* to be able to see
it.
... Hole in the Bed" by Mr. Completely
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:52:00
EID:c3a3 21987680
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E0F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jesse Jones spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JJ> Not to offend anyone?!?!? What about the f***ing split
JJ> infinitive?!? :->
*I* never claimed to be an English major. That's Staal's baliwick.
JJ> I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
JJ> mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
You asked 2 years ago for a reason outside the christian one to
celebrate this time of year. I just gave you one and all you want to
do is sneer at it.
If you don't want answers, why ask the questions?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 24 Dec 96 14:54:00
EID:fb20 219876c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E10
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jesse Jones spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JJ> Get a grip, Judith. Trying to extol the sacrifice of a can of
JJ> ginger ale is absurd.
Your priorities are screwy, Jesse.
And I can imagine the sigh of relief that you will give day after tomorrow
that your do-gooding is done for this year.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:13:00
EID:9317 219881a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E11
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Chris Green spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
CG> I didn't know that South Carolina was in 'Hurricane Alley'?
Yep. And we are right on the coast. Mean elevation of -5 ft.
If it hits Puerto Rico, we are very likely to get it.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:17:00
EID:36d5 21988220
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E12
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Chris Green spoke thusly to Sue Armstrong <=-
CG> What? You mean all these Christian messages are fake? And Mars
CG> really doesn't exist?
No, MARS exists. I was raised there.
About 35 miles north of Pittsburg.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:27:00
EID:c3d5 21988360
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E13
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Don Martin spoke thusly to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
DM> Check out my personal pet, Nate Cookson. I am thinking
DM> of entering him as "Best of Breed."
In which group? Non-working, non-sporting or toy?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:30:00
EID:6615 219883c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E14
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Gerry Danen spoke thusly to Chris Green <=-
GD> Are you trying to be politically correct, or are you afraid of the
GD> word Christmas and what it stands for?
What does it stand for? Besides a holiday ripped off from pagan sources?
I thought it was quite nice of Chris. Sort of a belated happy birthday to
my husband who is 48 today.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:34:00
EID:56a2 21988440
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E15
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marilyn Burge spoke thusly to Dave Hamilton <=-
MB> Not so. Portland, Oregon has the Clan McCleay Pipers, and
MB> they sound properly awful.
And the Citadel here in Charleston. They're actually pretty good, though.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: The pitter-patter of litt
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:35:00
EID:3d14 21988460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E16
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Martin Goldberg spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-
MG> You would be amazed at the number of mothers that cuddle a
MG> spontaneously aborted fetus before it is unceremoniously sliced and
MG> diced by the Pathology department.
You may not have realized it, Martin, but this is in large part because
women are being encouraged to do just that by the social workers who come
in to see you while you are in the process of delivering said fetus.
A woman is also encouraged to ask to look at the afterbirth (why, I don't
know) and/or hold a stillborn.
Maybe for some it might promote 'closure', to me it seems like it only
promotes guilt and a longer healing period.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: feed
|Date: 24 Dec 96 16:47:00
EID:6ce7 219885e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E17
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
DH> Anyone is invited to call. The address is bbs.sbase.com.
DH> I've got 4 telnet sessions going, and am delighted to see
I tried to telnet in yesterday using NetTerm. The program said I was
connected but I never got anything but a blank screen. What did I do
wrong?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 24 Dec 96 18:00:00
EID:e406 21989000
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A5D3E18
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
GtP> Men with your type of dysfunctional expectations
GtP> make me ill.
DW> And just what dysfunctional expectations do I have?
Chocolate pie and hot coffee for 2...coming right up.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Al S. and rape of virgin
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:15:00
EID:b489 219851e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Glen Todd <=-
DC> ... The ministry: a dating service for pedophiles.
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:18:00
EID:fe1e 21985240
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to All <=-
>JJ> Myself, I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's response:
>JJ> Only those who believe are obedient, and only
>JJ> those who obey believe.
DC> I do wonder if Jesse knows that he's deserving a
DC> place in the FAQ, once again, for such a lovely
DC> quote at that.
I wonder if Jesse knows just how evil and abomitable
the Bonhoeffer quote is.
... "Do you even know what an ad hominem attack is, dumbfuck?" Becke Jones
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:25:00
EID:a050 21985320
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Nate Cookson <=-
>NC> But here are some of the ways abortionists
>NC> dispose of the dead fetuses:
DH> Let's see your sources for these.
His sources: ignorance, stupidity, bullshit, theism,
fear, mysogeny, and the desire for theocracy in the USA.
DH> What percentage do you think occur in LEGAL abortion
DH> clinics or hospitals, and what makes your feeble mind
DH> think so?
"Dead fetuses" are put in red plastic bags with black
biohazzard blossoms printed on them, and sent to one
of hundreds of hazzardous waste furnaces in the country.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: True Folk
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:44:00
EID:3325 21985580
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-
> In a message to Jesse Jones, Glen Todd wrote:
>GT> No, it will show that political expediency
>GT> disguised as piousness has a firm root in
>GT> this government's traditions. In any event,
>GT> it also shows that it _IS_ a direct and
>GT> blatant violation of the Constitution and
>GT> a 'celebration' of a crime against ethics
>GT> and honour that True Folk would do well to
>GT> shun.
I missed the context of the above. Sounds like
he's talking about Scientology.
DW> First the Christians give us "True Christians/
DW> False Christian Scum." Now we get "True Folk/
DW> False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
I'm not at all sure, but for the Aesir-minded,
the word "Folk" capitalized roughly means "coven"
or "community."
DW> What's next?
True Spoon-benders / False Spoon-bender Scum.
... A lemming on full afterburners. -- Marty Leipzig
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JOHN JEANNEAULT
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 24 Dec 96 10:53:00
EID:b183 219856a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting John Jeanneault to All Christians <=-
JJ> Hi Fellow Christians.
Hi, brother John! Send UDS$65.00 to:
Brother David Rice
9500 Geronimo Road
Irvine, California, USA
92718
God wants you to!
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to
JJ> the HolySmokers fun by no longer posting here.
I'm game if you are. I'll tell you what--- you send
to me a check for two thousand dollars (see the address
above), and as soon as I cash it, I will cease to both
read and post in this echo. Is it a deal?
JJ> There is nothing of fairness, objectivity, or
JJ> tolerance within this message area.
As soon as theists produce some evidence for their
stupid-assed claims, you will see a PROFOUND, VAST
DIFFERANCE from the "nothing of fairness, objectivity,
or tolerance" you perceive here.
JJ> The goal of the message base is only to ridicule
JJ> and malign Christ and His[sic] followers.
Since there appears to be no "Christ" to ridicule,
you are therefore, obviously, full of shit. Since
no one in this echo "follows" that "Christ" (as
you know, Christians follow Saul of Tarsus), noone
here ridicules them, either.
So! Send me that US$65 RIGHT NOW, and if you want
me to cease reading and posting in this echo, send
me the additional US$2,000.00 RIGHT NOW. Thanks
bunches.
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STEVE QUARRELLA
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:00:00
EID:c2c9 21985800
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Bill Wolff <=-
SQ> I am told that Sagan died yesterday. Comments?
Yeah: Creationists will soon be claiming that before
he died, he recanted "evolutionism" and atheism,
became a raving fundamentalist Creationist (multi-
redundant), and died in the saving arms of Jesus.
They did it to Charles Darwin and scores of other
brilliant people.
... Do creationists really believe that we'll believe their lies?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub: No, really.
|Date: 24 Dec 96 11:10:00
EID:8e7a 21985940
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
You'll never guess who sent me e-mail this
morning. Nope. Nope. Nope. It was Hawk Shadow
(Julie)! No, really! I'm afraid to read it,
though, because it is probably a reply to a
message I sent to the Dragonfest Board of
Directors asking them to tell her I still
think she hung the moon and stars. Hummm.
I've written so on the community center
board for the past four years.
The reply could span the spectrum from the
negative side "Get lost you revoltingly
ugly creep," to the most-likely moderate "Oh,
that's nice *YAWN!*" to the bloody unlikely
"Ooooh! Take me now, big boy!"
So you can see why I'm afraid to read it. :-)
Maybe I'll forge a "UNDELIVERABLE" message
and send it back.
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: latest martinez disas
|Date: 25 Dec 96 14:53:00
EID:2a19 219976a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Curtis Johnson to David Rice <=-
>DR> Perhaps someone without any code of ethics will consent
>DR> to inject HIV-contaminated blood into Martinez and see
>DR> if the stupid shit will accept the risk. Put his life
>DR> where his mouth is.
CJ> During his stint in the SCIENCE echo, he claimed he was
CJ> going to do just that--but then waffled on just when he'd
CJ> be doing his public relations stunt, and how it would be
CJ> verified that the blood did indeed contain HIV and that
CJ> he himself was HIV-free.
Then he must not actually believe the crap he is spewing.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:11:00
EID:7695 21997960
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Rice <=-
>>>DR> from a neo-Jewish Fundy (Messianic Jew-For-Jesus nut)
>>DC> I've never figured out how a Jew could possible be
>>DC> an xian.
>DR> They are ignorant of Jewish history.
DC> Very ignorant, I'm sure. I've talked to one once, but
DC> only briefly on the phone. Never had the opportunity
DC> to find out if he knew of any of his family that had
DC> the very misfortune to make it to a concentration camp.
DC>
DC> As he was somewhat younger than I am, I suspect that
DC> that was more than one other generation removed from
DC> him. I worked with people that were there. I don't
DC> think he had his family history explained in detail.
My view of Jews is probably horribly stereotyped, since
it comes only from the TV (smile!). I thought that Jews
in general were better educated than the rest of the
population, both in world history and Jewish history.
One would think they would know that Christians tried
to depopulate Europe of all Jews THREE TIMES already,
and I suspect many want to try for a forth time.
A jew converting to Christianity is like a negro joining
the Ku Klux Klan.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:24:00
EID:3fbb 21997b00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-
DW> Carl Sagan died early this morning.
Watch for Fundies to start with the "deathbed conversion"
stories any day now.
DW> Jesse Jones (and a host of other bloodsucking lawyers)
DW> is still alive.
DW> There obviously is no God.
The even sadder part is, there seems to be no replacements
for brilliant American women and men to fill the shoes of
the polymaths that die. Bradbury, Asimov, now Sagan....
and damn few to step into their place and spread the same
light and truth that they did. Instead we got ignorant
students pouring out of schools, "ebonics," crystal
weenies, an astrology column in every newspaper, and every
kind of insanity on the TV being presented as "factual."
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:29:00
EID:e073 21997ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to John Jeanneault <=-
>JJ> Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that
>JJ> somehow by your presence here, that you will
>JJ> somehow touch their hearts,
But then, Jesse cannot let a little light into his own
brain, let alone go around touching people's organs.
DW> Jesse is here for the martyr points. He *can't*
DW> leave.
In fact, I =REFUSE= to let him.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Euthanasia
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:32:00
EID:8c17 21997c00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Dan Ceppa <=-
DM> You know, he might enjoy Kon Tiki. Nothing to
DM> do with the history, of course, but it presents
DM> the possibility that the people here were more
DM> than vanquish fodder.
That's true. I'm sure they also had also vanquished
mudders.
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Archived holysmoke
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:35:00
EID:bf0f 21997c60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Don Martin to David Rice <=-
>DR> Only 10.76% of your messages had "fuck" (any case), in
>DR> them. Of the ones that did, "fuck" appeared 1.539 times
>DR> in each.
DM> 1.539 times? Well, slightly more than half a fuck is
DM> better than none, I suppose.
I suppose that would depend on which part of the anatomy
is being fucked.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GLEN TODD
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:42:00
EID:e161 21997d40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Glen Todd to David Rice <=-
>>RB> This is YOUR interpretation of what Christianity is.
>DR> Nope: it is the facts as demonstrated by the long,
>DR> bloody, ugly, demonic history of Christianity. You
>DR> need only take off your blinders, stop masturbating
>DR> with your paper idol (the Bible), and look at
>DR> Christianity's history-+- only then will you will
>DR> realize the truth.
GT> Actually he will _NEVER_ realize the truth as long
GT> as he refuses to look at the real world, real history,
GT> and real facts about real people because they threaten
GT> his precious beLIEf.
It is ironic as all get-out that it is up to the atheists,
Pagans, and Jews to educate Christians about Christianity
and the Bible.
GT> That's why 'Bible Study' classes never, NEVER, _NEVER_
GT> teach anything ABOUT theeir Bible or it's history.
Aww, yah noticed that, eh? :-) When I was posting in
the alt.atheism newsgroup, I used to get e-mail from
Fundies who pleaded with me to check out their "Bible
study" WWW sites. I checked out one and saw =NO= Bible
study there, even though the site was extensive.
>DR> Dark Side of Christian History, The
>DR> Helen Ellerbe
>DR>
>DR> The Dark Side of Christian History reveals in
>DR> painstaking detail the tragedies, sorrows and
>DR> injustices inflicted
GT> Thanks for the reference. I'll have to add it to the
GT> Abrahamic section of my library. Ves thu
Anoying, isn't it?
... Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:48:00
EID:2dbd 21997e00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> What would a god require a penis for? Isn't god an "it?"
JS> No, God[sic] incarnate (Jesus Christ) was a human male.
Have you any evidence that "Jesus 'Christ'" even existed,
let alone that he was a god? If so, please share it with
the audience. Thanks.
>>>KD> The evidence of biology states otherwise. Female
>>>KD> is the basic model.
>>>JS> Evidence?
>>ML> Embryology.
>DR> Hi Bro' James. Alas, Karen and Marty are, as usual,
>DR> correct: the male is a modification of the female
>DR> of the species. During gestation, every fetus starts
>DR> out female. If there is enough testosterone (and
>DR> other) hormones, the fetus then turns male: if not,
>DR> it remains female. This may be a feature of pre-human
>DR> pathenogenisis. The male form is an evolutionary
>DR> appendum to increase genetic variability through
>DR> recombination via sexual reproduction: it wasn't
>DR> always that way.
JS> If one is inclined to believe in the theory of
JS> evolution. I believe in the 'big bang' myself.
#1) "Belief" in evolution is irrelivent: it is an
observed fact, not subject to "belief."
#2) Gender suffusion and subsequent demarcation does
not reply on the "belief" of evolution: it is an
observed fact, not subject to "belief."
#3) If you would like a short primer on mammal gender,
please bellow and I'll send a few hundred thousand bytes
on the subject your way. Give an e-mail address if you
want said data.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub: When in doubt, PCR the su
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:52:00
EID:82ed 21997e80
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to All <=-
MG> 1. Dan Ceppa called me last night to inform me that
MG> he has lost his feed again. I am trying to get him
MG> hooked up with someone, so he should be back shortly.
One would think that Dan, being a god, would not have
this problem.
MG> 2. It was only a matter of time, but yesterday, I
MG> found on my doorstep a small plastic bag with a
MG> very small book in it (about the size of "Famous
MG> Jewish Sports Heroes"). It was the "Christian
MG> Yellow Pages. I suppose now you cna get a car
MG> wash or your roof painted with your Jesus.
MG>
MG> As I said, it was only a matter of time.
PLEASE!!! PLEASE tell me who published it, and give
me any phone number of the organization that published
it, and the city where you live / received it. I want
to telephone them and say:
"Thank you very much for a copy of 'Christian Yellow
Pages.' I was wondering which businesses to boycott:
this reference makes my boycot =MUCH= easier!"
If there's a phone number, please send it to:
shy.david@edenbbs.com
Thank you.
... The name "HolySmoke" oughtta imply that something's burning. - S.A.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 25 Dec 96 15:57:00
EID:ff65 21997f20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy...
AS> Indeed, why laws at all? Why isn't everything chaotic?
If I understand Mi Fumyah's "Chaos!" at all, everything
=IS= chaotic. The "laws" we observe are due to two or
more chaotic systems interacting to form stabilities.
... Pickup line: You're under arrest! Place your ankles behind your ears.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:39:00
EID:910f 219a7ce0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
>DR> He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact
>DR> that it is Christian-like to kill.
CH> Help me.
If you insist.
CH> Where did you find that?
History.
Abbot, Henry: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 4 July, 1597
Abel, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Smithfield, England, on 30
July,
1540
Alfield, Thomas: tortured and hanged at Tyburn, England, on 6 July, 1585
Almond, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 5 December,
1612
Amias, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 16 March,
1589
Andeton, Robert: hanged on the Isle of Wight, 25 April, 1586
Andleby, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 4 July,
1597
Arnaud, William: murdered by Albegensians at Avignonet in 1242
Ashley, Ralph: executed on 7 April, 1606 after two years of torture
Assche, Peter of: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Azevedo, Ignatius: killed, with 39 others, on 15 July, 1570
Bales, Christopher: hanged, drawn and quartered in Fleet Street, London,
England, on 4 March, 1590
Barkworth, Mark: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 27
February, 1601
Barlow, Ambrose: hanged, drawn and quartered in Lancaster, England, on 10
September, 1641
Barrow, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20 June,
1679
Beaton, David: murdered in Scotland in 1543
Beche, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Colchester, England, on 1
December, 1539
Bell, James: executed at Lancaster, England, on 20 April, 1584
Belson, Thomas: executed at Oxford, England, on 5 July, 1589
Bird, James: hanged, drawn and quartered at Winchester, England, on 24 March,
1593
Bodey, James: hanged at Andover, England, after three years imprisonment,
on
2 November, 1583
Boste, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Dryburn, England, on 24 July,
1594
Briant, Alexander: executed at Tyburn, England, on 1 December, 1581
Brindholme, Edmund: executed at Tyburn, England, on 4 August, 1540
Brown, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Ripon, England, on 5
September, 1605
Bosgrave, Thomas: executed in London, England, on 4 July, 1594
Cambiani, Peter: murdered at Susa, France, on 7 November 1365 (by Waldensians)
Campion, Edmund: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 1
December, 1581
Carey, John: executed in London, England, on 4 July, 1594
Castelnau, Pierre de: murdered (which touched off the Albigensian "Crusade")
on 14 Jan, 1208
Catherick, Edmund: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 13 April,
1642
Clitherow, Margaret: pressed to death under an eight-hundred pound weight,
at
York, England on 25 March, 1586
Coleman, Edward: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 3
December, 1678
Corbington, Ralph: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England on 7
September, 1644
Cornelius, John: executed in London, England, on 4 July, 1594
Cottham, Thomas: forced to watch three priests executed by hanging, drawing
and quartering, and was then executed by the same method in
the Tower of London on 30 May, 1582
Crockett, Ralph: hanged, drawn and quartered in Chichester, England, on
1
October, 1588
Dalby, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 16 March,
1589
Davies, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Beaumaris, Wales, on 27
July,
1593
Dean, William: hanged at Mile-End Green, in London, England, on 28 August,
1588
Delgado, Alexius: murdered on 15 July, 1570. He was fourteen years old.
Dickenson, Francis: hanged, drawn and quartered at Rochester, England, on
30
April (possibly April 13), 1590
Dickenson, Roger: hanged, drawn and quartered at Winchester, England, on
7
July, 1591
Dingley, Thomas: beheaded at Tower Hill, London, England, on July 8 (or
9),
1539
Duckett, James: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 19 April, 1602
Duckett, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England on 7 September,
1644
Duynsen, Godefried Van: hanged at Briel, Holland, in 1572
Eem, Theodore van der: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Evans, Philip: executed at Cardiff, Wales, on 22 July, 1679
Exmew, William: executed at Tyburn, England, after being suspended in chains
for two weeks, on 19 June, 1535
Eynon, John: hanged at Reading Abbey, England, 15 November, 1539
Faringdon, Hugh: hanged at Reading Abbey, England, 15 November, 1539
Felton, John: hanged, drawn and quartered in St. Paul's churchyard, London,
England, on 8 August, 1570
Felton, Thomas: hanged at Isleworth, London, England, on 28 August, 1588
Fenn, James: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 12 February,
1584
Fenwick, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20 June,
1679
Fetherston, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Smithfield, England
on 30
July, 1540
Filby, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 May,
1582
Filcock, Roger: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 27
February, 1601
Finch, John: executed at Lancaster, England, on 20 April, 1584
Fisher, John: beheaded at Tyburn, England, on 22 June, 1535
Ford. Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 28 May,
1582
Forrest, John: burned at Smithfield, England, on 22 May, 1538
Fortesque, Adrian: beheaded at Tower Hill, London, England, on 8 (or 9)
July,
1539
Freeman, William: hanged, drawn and quartered in England on 13 August, 1595
Fulthering, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 1 August,
1605
Gardnier, Jeremyn: executed at Tyburn, England, on 7 March, 1544
Garnet, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 23 June,
1608
Gennings, Edmund: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1591
Gerard, Miles: hanged, drawn and quartered at Rochester, England, on 30
(or
13) April, 1590
Goodman, John: condemned, but died in Newgate Prison, England, before
execution, in 1642
Grodecz, Melchoir: executed at Kosice, Slovakia on 7 September, 1619
Green, Hugh: hanged, drawn and quartered at Dorchester, England, on 19
August, 1642
Grove, John: executed at Tyburn, England, on 24 January, 1679
Griswold, Robert: hanged at Warwick, England, on 16 July, 1604
Gunter, William: hanged at Shoreditch, England, on 28 August, 1588
Gwyn, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Wrexham, Wales, on 15 October,
1584
Hackshot, Thomas: executed at Tyburn on 24 August, 1601
Haile, John: executed at Tyburn, England, on 4 May, 1535
Hanse, Everard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 31 July,
1581
Harrington, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on
15
March, 1583
Hartley, William: hanged at Shoreditch, England, on 5 October, 1557
Hemerford, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 12
February, 1584
Herst, Richard: hanged at Lancaster, England, on 29 August, 1628
Hewett, John: hanged at Mile-End Green, London, England, on 5 October, 1588
Hilvarenbeek, Adrian Van: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Hodgson, Sydney: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1591
Holford, Thomas: hanged at Clerkenwell, London, England, on 28 August, 1588
Holland, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 12
December, 1642
Hoornaer, John Van: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Hoornauer, Anthony of: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Houghton, John: executed at Tyburn, England on 4 May, 1535
Howard, Philip: died imprisoned in the Tower of London on 19 October, 1595
Howard, William: beheaded at Tyburn, England, on 29 December, 1680
Ingleby, Francis: hanged at York, England, on 3 June, 1586
Ingram, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Gateshead, England, on 26 July,
1594
Ireland, William: executed at Tyburn, England, on 24 January, 1679
Ireland, John: executed at Tyburn, England, on 7 March, 1544
James, Edward: hanged, drawn and quartered at Chichester, England, on 1
October, 1588
James, Roger: hanged, drawn and quartered at Glastonbury, England, on 1
December, 1539
Jannsen, Nicasius: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Johnson, Laurence: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30
May,
1582
Johnson, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 28 May,
1582
Jones, Edward: hanged in Fleet Street, London, England, on 6 May, 1590
Jones, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Southwark, London, England,
on 12
July, 1598
Kemble, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Hereford, England, at age eighty,
on 22 August, 1679
Kirby, Luke: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 May,
1582
Kirkman, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Knavesmire, England, on
22
August, 1597
Knight, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 29 November,
1596
Korosy, Mark: tortured and executed at Kosice, Slovakia, on 7 September,
1619
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:40:00
EID:910f 219a7d00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
>DR> He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact
>DR> that it is Christian-like to kill.
CH> Help me.
If you insist.
CH> Where did you find that?
History.
Lacey, Brian: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 10 December, 1582
Lacey, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Knavesmire, England, on 22
August, 1597
Lacops. Jacob: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Langhorne, Richard: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 14 July, 1679
Langley, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 1
December, 1586
Larke, John: executed at Tyburn, England, on 7 March, 1544
Lawrence, Robert: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 4 May, 1535
Leigh, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 August,
1588
Lewis, David: hanged, drawn and quartered at Usk, Wales, on 27 August, 1679
Line, Anne: hanged at Tyburn, London, on 27 February, 1601
Littleton, (first name unknown): executed at York, England, on 7 April,
1606
Lloyd, John: executed at Cardiff, Wales, on 22 July, 1679
Lockwood, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 13 April,
1642
Marsden, William: hanged on the Isle of Wight, 25 April, 1586
Martin, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30
August, 1588
Mason, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10 December,
1591
Maxfield, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 1 July,
1616
Mayne, Cuthbert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Launceton, England, on 25
November, 1577
Mervel, Godfried of: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Middlemore, Humphrey: executed at Tyburn, England, after being suspended
in
chains for two weeks, on 19 June, 1535
Middleton, Anthony: hanged, drawn and quartered at Clerkenwell, London,
England, on 6 May, 1590
Milner, Ralph: hanged, drawn and quartered at Winchester, England, on 7
July,
1591
More, Hugh: hanged at Lincoln's Inn Fields, England, on 28 August, 1588
More, Thomas: beheaded in the Tower of London on 6 July, 1535
Morse, Henry: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 1 February,
1645
Morton, Robert: executed in London, England in 1588
Munden, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 12 February,
1584
Napper, George: executed at Oxford, England, on 9 November, 1610
Narbonne, Stephan of: murdered by Albegensians at Avignonet in 1242
Nelson, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, in 1578
Newdigate, Sabastian: executed at Tyburn, England, after being suspended
in
chains for two weeks, on 19 June, 1535
Newport, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30
May,
1612
Nichols, George: executed at Oxford, England, on 5 July, 1589
Nutter, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 12 February,
1584
Ogilvie, John: hanged at Glascow, Scotland, on 10 March, 1615
Oldcorne, Edward: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 7 April,
1606
Oosterwyk, John Van: executed at Briel, Holland, on 9 July, 1572
Owen, Nicholas: died under torture, in the Tower of London, on 2 March,
1606
Page, Anthony: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20 (or
30)
April, 1593
Page, Francis: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20 April,
1602
Patenson, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 22
January, 1592
Pavoni, Anthony: murdered at Bricherasio, Italy, in 1374
Payne, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 2 April,
1582
Percy, Thomas: beheaded at York, England, on 22 August, 1572
Peter Martyr: murdered near Barassina, Italy, on 6 April, 1252 (by a Cathar)
Pibush, John: executed in London, England, on 18 February, 1601
Pickering, Thomas: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 9 May, 1679
Pieck, Nicholas: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Pilchard, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Dorchester, England, on
21
March, 1587
Plasden, Polydore: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1591
Plessington, John: hanged at Barrowhill, England, on 19 July, 1679
Plumtree, Thomas: hanged at Durham Castle, England, on 4 January, 1570
Plunket, Oliver: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 1 July,
1681
Pongracz, Stephen: executed at Kosice, Slovakia on 7 September, 1619
Poppel, Nicholas Jannsen: hanged at Briel, Holland, in 1572
Pormort, Thomas: hanged at London, England, on 20 February, 1592
Postgate, Nicholas: executed at York, England, on 7 August, 1679
Powell, Edward: hanged, drawn and quartered at Smithfield, England, on 30
July, 1540
Powell, Philip: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 June,
1646
Prichard, Humphrey: executed at Oxford, England, on 5 July, 1589
Rawlins, Alexander: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 7 April,
1595
Raymond (last name unknown): murdered by Albegensians at Avignonet in 1242
Reynolds, Richard: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 4 May, 1535
Reynolds, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 21
January, 1642
Richardson, William: executed at Tyburn, England, on 17 February, 1603
Rigby, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Southwark, England, on 21 June,
1600
Roberts, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1610
Robinson, Christopher: hanged at Carlisle, England, on 19 Augst, 1598
Robinson, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Ipswich, England, on 1
October, 1588
Roche, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 August,
1588
Rochester, John: executed at York, England, on 11 May, 1537
Roe, Alban Bartholomew: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England,
on
21 January, 1642
Roye, Francis de: executed at Briel, Holland, on 9 July, 1572
Rugg, John: hanged at Reading Abbey, England, on 15 November, 1539
Sales, James: stabbed and shot to death at Aubenas, France, on 7 February,
1593
Salmon, Patrick: executed in London, England, on 4 July, 1594
Sarkander, John: died of torture at Olmutz, Bavaria, on 17 March, 1620
Saultemouche, William: stabbed and shot to death at Aubenas, France, on
7
February, 1593
Scott, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 May,
1612
Shert, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 28 May,
1582
Sherwin, Ralph: executed at Tyburn, England, on 1 December, 1581
Sherwood, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 7
February, 1578
Slade, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Winchester, England, on 30
October, 1583
Snow, Peter: executed at York on 15 June, 1598
Somers, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1610
Southwell, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 21
February, 1595
Southworth, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 28
June, 1654
Speed, John: executed at Durham, England, on 4 February, 1594
Sprott, Thomas: executed at Lincoln, England, on 11 July, 1600
Stone, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Canterbury, England, sometime
before December, 1539
Storey, John: executed at Tyburn, England, on 1 June, 1571
Sugar, John: hanged at Warwick, England, on 16 July, 1604
Sutton, Robert: hanged at Clerkenwell, England, on 5 October, 1588
Swallowell, George: executed at Darlington, England, on 26 July, 1594
Sykes, Edmund: hanged at York, England, on 23 March, 1587
Thirkeld, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 29 May,
1583
Thompson, James: hanged at York, England, on 28 November, 1582
Thorne, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Glastonbury, England, on 1
December, 1539
Thulis, John: executed at Lancaster, England on 18 March, circa 1616
Thwing, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 23 October,
1680
Tichborne, Nicholas: executed at Tyburn on 24 August, 1601
Tunstal, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Norwich, England, on 13
July, 1616
Turner, Antony: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20 June,
1679
Vechel, Leonard: hanged at Briel, Holland, in 1572
Wall, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Redhill, England, on 22 August,
1679
Walpole, Henry: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 7 April,
1595
Walworth, William: executed at York, England, on 11 May, 1537
Ward, Margaret: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 30 August,
1588
Warcop, Thomas: hanged at York, England, on 4 July, 1597
Waterson, Edward: hanged, drawn and quartered at Newcastle-on-Tyne, England,
on 7 January, 1593
Watkinson, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20
April, 1602
Way, William: hanged, drawn and quartered at Kingston-on-Thames, on 23
September, 1588
Webley, Thomas: tortured and hanged at Tyburn, England, on 6 July, 1585
Webley, Henry: hanged at Mile-End Green, in London, England, on 28 August,
1588
Webster, Augustine: hanged at Tyburn, England, on 4 May, 1535
Webster, William: executed on 26 July, 1641 at Tyburn, England
Weerden, Jerome: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Weert, Anthony of: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Wellbourn, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 1 August,
1605
Wells, Swithun: hanged at London, England, on 10 December, 1591
Whitebread, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 20
June, 1679
White, Eustace: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 10
December, 1591
Whiting, Richard: hanged, drawn and quartered at Glastonbury, England, on
1
December, 1539
Widmerpool, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Canterbury, England,
on
1 December, 1539
Wilcox, Robert: hanged, drawn and quartered at Canterbury, England, on 1
December, 1539
Willehad, Anthony: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Woodhouse, Thomas: executed in Wales in 1573
Wright, Peter: hanged, drawn and quartered in England, on 19 May, 1651
Wouters, Andreas: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Wrenno, Roger: executed at Lancaster, England on 18 March, circa 1616
Wyk, Cornelius of: hanged at Briel, Holland on 9 July, 1572
Yaxley, Richard: executed at Oxford, England, on 5 July, 1589
*****************************************
GENERAL SECTION
(number unknown): killed in the Albegensian "Crusade": 1208-1229
(number unknown): killed in the Hussite Wars
(number unknown): killed in the French Religious Wars: 1562-1588
(number unknown): killed in the English-Spanish Wars
(number unknown): killed in the Thirty Years War: 1609-1659
(number unknown): killed in the Massacre of Drogheada, Ireland, on 11
September, 1649
(number unknown): killed in the Sack of Wexford, Ireland on 11 October,
1649
(number unknown): killed in Northern Ireland: (current political-religious
war)
... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:41:00
EID:910f 219a7d20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
>DR> He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact
>DR> that it is Christian-like to kill.
CH> Help me.
If you insist.
CH> Where did you find that?
History.
Audebert, Ann: burned at Orleans, France, in 1549
Apprice, John: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Astoo, (first name unknown): burned in England circa 1557
Adlington, Henry: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Adams, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1546
Askew, Anne: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1546
Anderson, William: executed in Scotland, in 1543
Brewster, John: burned in England, on 18 October, 1511
Barnes, Robert: burned at London, England, on 30 July, 1540
Belenian, Nicholas: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1546
Bradford, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1535
Browne, Thomas: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Bowyer, Thomas: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Bongeor, Agnes: burned at Colcester, England, in 1557
Badby, John: burned at London, England, on 1 March, 1410
Cooper, Elizabeth: burned at Norwich, England, in 1557
Cawch, Lyon: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Cranmer, Thomas: burned in England on 21 March, 1556
Carpenter, George: burned at Munich, Germany, in 1527
Cardmaker (first name unknown): burned at Smithfield, England, in 1555
Derifall, John: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Drowry, Thomas: executed at Gloucester, England, in 1556
Eastland, Reinald: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Forret, Thomas: burned at Castle Hill, Edinburgh, Scotland, circa 1531
Frith, John: burned at London, England, in 1533
Foster, Isabel: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Floyd, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Folkes, Elizabeth: burned, with 5 others, at Colcester, England, in 1557
Fetty, (first name unknown): beaten to death in Lonmdon, England circa 1558
Finlason, James: executed in Scotland, in 1543
Forest, Henry: burned at Forfar, Scotland, circa 1530
Garret, Thomas: burned at London, England, on 30 July, 1540
Green, Bartlet: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Gibson, Richard: executed in England, on 18 November, 1557
George, Agnes: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Gurley, Norman: burned in Scotland, circa 1531
Hamilton, Patrick: burned at Edinburgh, Scotland, on 1 March, 1527
Hooper, John: burned at Gloucester, England, on 9 February, 1555
Hunter, James: executed in Scotland, in 1543
Hide, Margaret: burned in England, on 12 April, 1557
Hallingdale, John: executed in England, on 18 November, 1557
Holiday, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Holland, Roger: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Hauker, Thomas: burned at Coggeshall, England, in 1555
Hallywel, William: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Hurst, Edmond: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Hewit, Alexander: burned at London, England, in 1533
Hus, Jan: burned at Constance, Switzerland, on 6 July, 1415
Jerome, William: burned at London, England, on 30 July, 1540
Jackson, Ralph: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Latimer, Hugh: burned in England, on 17 October, 1555
Lamb, Robert: executed in Scotland, in 1543
Lambert, John: burned at London, England, in 1538
Lacels, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1546
Leaf, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1535
Loseby, Thomas: burned in England, on 12 April, 1557
Laverock, Hugh: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Man, Thomas: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1518
Mill, Walter: burned in Scotland, in 1558
Miller, Simon: burned at Norwich, England, in 1557
Orange, William of: murdered at Delft, Holland, on 10 July, 1584
Oldcastle, John: burned at St. Giles Field, England, on 14 December, 1418
Philpot, John: burned at Smithfield, England, on 18 December, 1555
Pond, Henry: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Prague, Jerome of: burned at Constance, Switzerland, in 1416
Peerson, Anthony: burned at Windsor, England, in 1543
Polley, Margery: burned at Dartford, England, in 1555
Potten, Alice: burned in England on 19 February, 1556
Parnam, Laurence: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Pepper, Elizabeth: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Ravelson, James: executed in Scotland, in 1543
Ridley, Nicholas: burned in England, on 17 October, 1555
Ramsey, Henry: burned in England, on 12 April, 1557
Ricarby, Matthew: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Rogers, (first name unknown): burned at Smithfield, England, in 1555
Routh, John: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Rough, (first name unknown): burned in England circa 1557
Sawtre, (first name unknown): burned on 9 February, 1401
Straton, David: burned in Scotland, circa 1531
Sweeting, William: burned in England, on 18 October, 1511
Stile, (first name unknown): burned at Smithfield, England, in 1539
Stanley, Agnes: burned in England, on 12 April, 1557
Sparrow, William: executed in England, on 18 November, 1557
Southam, Robert: burned at Smithfield, England, in the late 1550's
Samuel, Robert: burned in England on 31 August, 1555
Searles, George: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
Stilman, John: burned at London, England, in 1518
Stirke, Helen: drowned in Scotland, in 1543
Taylor, Rowland: burned at Hadley, England, in 1555
Tudson, John: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Thirtel, Thomas: burned in England, on 12 April, 1557
Tilleman, Giles: burned at Brussels, Belgium, in 1544
Trunchfield, Joan: burned in England on 19 February, 1556
Tyndale, William: burned at Fylford, England, in 1536
Wishart, George: hanged and burned at the Castle of St. Andrews, Scotland,
on 1 March, 1546
Wallace, Adam: hanged and burned at Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1557
Warne, John: burned at Smithfield, England, in 1555
Whittle, Thomas: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Went, John: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Warne, Joan: burned in England, on 27 January, 1556
Wade, Christopher: burned at Dartford, England, in 1555
White, Rawlin: burned at Cardiff, Wales, in 1555
Wye, Henry: burned at Stratford-le-Bow, England, 1556
... Follow the double helix, not the cross.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:42:00
EID:910f 219a7d40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
>DR> He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact
>DR> that it is Christian-like to kill.
CH> Help me.
If you insist.
CH> Where did you find that?
History.
Adamson, Francis: executed at Durham, England, in 1652
Albano, Peter of: died in prison circa 1310
Allen, Joan: hanged at the Old Bailey, London, England, in 1650
Allen, Jonet: burned in Scotland in 1661
Amalaric, Madeline: burned in France in mid-1500's
Ancker, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Andrius, Barthelemy: burned at Carcassonne, France in 1330
Andrius, Jean: burned at Carcassonne, France in 1330
Andrius, Phillippe: burned at Carcassonne, France in 1330
Arnold, (first name unknown): hanged at Barking, England, in 1574
d'Arc, Joan: burned at Rouen, France, on 30 May, 1431
Ashby, Anne: hanged at Maidstone, England, in July, 1652
Askew, Anne: burned for witchcraft 1546
Audibert, Etienne: condemned for witchcraft in France, on 20 March 1619
Aupetit, Pierre: burned at Bordeaux, France, in 1598
Babel, Zuickel: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Babel, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Baker, Anne: executed in Leicester, England, in 1619
Balcoin, Marie: burned in the reign of Henry IV of France
Balfour, Alison: burned at Edinburgh, Scotland, on 16 December, 1594
Bannach, (husband) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany,
1628-1629
Bannach, (wife) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Barber, Mary: executed in Northhampton, England, on 22 July, 1612
Barker, Janet: burned in Scotland in 1643
Baroni, Catterina: beheaded and burned at Castelnovo, Italy, on 14 April,
1647
Barthe, Angela de la: burned at Toulouse, France, in 1275
Basser, Fredrick: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Batsch, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Bayerin, Anna: executed at Salzburg, Austria, in 1751
Beaumont, Sieur de: accused of witchcraft on 21 October, 1596
Bebelin, Gabriel: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Beck, Viertel: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Beck, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Belon, Jean: executed in France, in 1597
Berger, Christopher: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Berrye, Agnes: hanged at Enfield, England, in 1616
Bentz, (mother) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Bentz, (daughter) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany,
1628-1629
Beuchel, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1581
Beutler, (first name unknown) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Bill, Arthur: executed in Northhampton, England, on 22 July, 1612
Birenseng, Agata: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 25 June, 1594
Bishop, Briget: hanged at Salem, New England on 10 June, 1692
Bodenham, Anne: hanged at Salisbury, England, in 1653
Bonnet, Jean: burned alive at Boissy-en-Ferez, France, in 1583
Boram, (mother) (first name unknown): hung at Bury St Edmunds, England,
in
1655
Boram, (daughter) (first name unknown): hung at Bury St Edmunds, England,
in
1655
Bolingbroke, Roger: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 18
November, 1441
Boulay, Anne: burned at Nancy, France, in 1620
Boulle, Thomas: burned alive at Rouen, France, on 21 August, 1647
Bragadini, Mark Antony: beheaded in Italy in the 1500's
Brickmann, (first name unknown) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Brose, Elizabeth: tortured to death in the castle of Gommern, Germany, on
4 November, 1660
Brown, Janet: burned in Scotland in 1643
Browne, Agnes: executed in Northhampton, England, on 22 July, 1612
Browne, Joan: executed in Northhampton, England, on 22 July, 1612
Browne, Mary: hanged at Maidstone, England, in July, 1652
Brooks, Jane: hanged in England on 26 March, 1658
Brugh, John: burned in Scotland in 1643
Buckh, Appollonia: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1581
Bugler, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Bulcock, John: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Bulcock, Jane: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Bull, Edmund: hanged at Taunton, England, in 1631
Bulmer, Matthew: hanged at Newcastle, England, in 1649
Burroughs, George: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Bursten-Binderin, (first name unknown) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-
1629
Calles, Helen: executed at Braynford, England, on 1 December, 1595
Camelli, Domenica: beheaded and burned at Castelnovo, Italy, on 14 April,
1647
Canzler, (first name unknown) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Carrier, Martha: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Caveden, Lucia: beheaded and burned at Castelnovo, Italy, on 14 April, 1647
Cemola, Zinevra: beheaded and burned at Castelnovo, Italy, on 14 April,
1647
Corey, Martha: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Corey, Giles: prssed to death at Salem, New England, on 19 September, 1692
Corset, Janet: killed by a mob at Pittenweem, Scotland, in 1704
Challiot, (first name unknown): murdered at St. Georges, France, in February,
1922
Chalmers, Bessie: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Chambers, (first name unknown): died in prison, in England, in 1693
Chamoulliard, (first name unknown): burned in France, in 1597
Chatto, Marioun: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Ciceron, Andre: burned alive at Carcassone, France, in 1335
Cockie, Isabel: burnt as a witch, at a cost of 105 s. 4 p., in England 1596
Cox, Julian: executed at Taunton, England, in 1663
Couper, Marable: burned in the north of Scotland in 1622
Craw, William: burned in Scotland in 1680
Crots, (son) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Cullender, Rose: executed at Bury St Edmunds, England, on 17 March 1664
Cumlaquoy, Marian: burned at Orkney, Scotland in 1643
Cunningham, John: burned at Edinburgh, in January, 1591
Cunny, Joan: hanged in Chelmsford, England, in 1589
Deiner, Hans: burned at Waldsee, Germany (year unknown)
Delort, Catherine: burned at Toulouse, France, in 1335
Demdike, Elizabeth: convicted, but died in prison, in Lancaster, England,
in 1612
DeMolay, Jacques: Grand Master of the Templars, burned in France on
22 March 1312
Desbordes, (first name unknown): burned in France, in 1628
Deshayes, Catherine: burned on 22 February, 1680
Device, Elizabeth: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Device, James: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Device, Alizon: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Doree, Catherine: executed at Courveres, France, in 1577
Dorlady, Mansfredo: burned at Vesoul, France as being the Devil's banker,
on
18 January, 1610
Dorlady, Fernando: burned at Vesoul, France as being the Devil's banker,
on
18 January, 1610
Dormar, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 9 October, 1586
Douglas, Janet: burned at Castle, Hill, Scotland, on 17 July, 1557
Drummond, Alexander: executed in Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1670
"Dummy" (name unknown; he was deaf-and-dumb): killed by a mob at Sible
Hedingham, England, on 3 August, 1865
Dunlop, Bessie: burned at Castle Hill, Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1576
Duny, Amy: executed at Bury St Edmunds, England, on 17 March, 1664
Dyneis, Jonka: burned in the north of Scotland in 1622
Easty, Mary: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Echtinger, Barbara: imprisoned for life at Waldsee, Germany, on 24 August,
1545
Edelfrau, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Edwards, Susanna: hanged at Bideford, England in 1682
Einseler, Catharina: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 6 July, 1581
Erb, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 9 March, 1586
Eyering, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Fian, John: burned alive at Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1591
Fief, Mary le: of Samur, France, accused of witchcraft, on 13 October 1573
Fleischbaum, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Flieger, Catharina: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 6 July, 1581
Flower, Joan: died before trial, at Lincoln, England, 1619
Flower, Margaret: executed at Lincoln, England, in March, 1619
Flower, Phillippa: executed at Lincoln, England, in March, 1619
Foster, Anne: hanged at Northhampton, England, in 1674
Fray, Ursula: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 12 June, 1587
Fray, Margaret: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 25 June, 1594
Fynnie, Agnes: burned in Scotland in 1643
Gabley, (first name unknown): executed at King's Lynn, England, in 1582
Galigai, Leonora: beheaded at the Place de Grieve, France, on 8 July, 1617
Garnier, Gilles: burned as a werewolf in Dole, France 1574
Gaufridi, Louis: burned at Marseilles, France, at 5:00 pm on 30 April, 1611
Georgel, Anna Marie de: burned at Toulouse, France, in 1335
Geraud, Hughes: burned in France in 1317
Gering, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Glaser, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Goeldi, Anna: hanged at Glaris, Switzerland, on 17 June, 1782
Goldschmidt, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Good, Sarah: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Grandier, Urbain, burned at Loudon, France, on 18 August, 1634
Goodridge, Alse: executed at Darbie, England, in 1597
Gratiadei, Domenica: beheaded and burned at Castelnovo, Italy, on 14 April,
1647
Green, Ellen: executed in Leicester, England, in 1619
Greensmith, (first name unknown): hanged in Hartford, New England, on 20
January, 1662
Greland, Jean: burned at Chamonix, France, in 1438, with 10 others
Grierson, Isobel: burned in Scotland in March, 1607
Gutbrod, (first name unknown:) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Haan, George: burned at Bamberg, Germany, circa 1626, with his wife, daughter,
and son
Hacket, Margaret: executed at Tyburn, England, on 19 February, 1585
Hamilton, Margaret: burned in Scotland in 1680
Hafner, (son) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hammellmann, Melchoir: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hamyltoun, Christiane: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Hans, David: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hans, Kilian: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Harfner, (first name unknown): hanged herself in the prison of Bamberg,
1628-1629
Harlow, Bessie: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Harrisson, Joanna, and her daughter: executed in Hertford, England, in 1606
Harvilliers, Jeanne: executed in France, in 1578
Haus, (wife) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hennot, Catherine: burned alive in Germany in 1627
Henry III, King of France: assassinated on 1 August, 1589
Hewitt, Katherine: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Hezensohn, Joachim: beheaded at Waldsee, Germany, in 1557
Hibbins, Anne: hanged in Boston, Massachusetts on 19 June, 1656
Hirsch, Nicodemus: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hoecker, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hofschmidt, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Holtzmann, Stoffel: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Hofseiler, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
How, Elizabeth: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Hoyd, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 24 November, 1586
Huebmeyer, Barbara: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 11 September, 1589
Huebmeyer, Appela: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 11 September, 1589
Hunt, Joan: hanged in Middlesex, England in 1615
Hunter, Alexander: burned at Edinburgh, Scotland, in 1629
Huxley, Catherine: hanged at Worcester, England in the summer of 1652
Isel, Ursula: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 7 November, 1586
Isolin, Madlen: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 6 July, 1581
... Blasphemy is what an old mistake says of a newly discovered truth.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: 2 Goatians 9:13
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:43:00
EID:910f 219a7d60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
>DR> He didn't claim it was. He pointed out the fact
>DR> that it is Christian-like to kill.
CH> Help me.
If you insist.
CH> Where did you find that?
History.
Jacobs, George: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Jenkenson, Helen: executed in Northhampton, England, on 22 July, 1612
Jennin, (first name unknown): burned at Cambrai, France, in 1460
Jollie, Alison: executed in Scotland, in October, 1596
Jones, Katherine: burned in the north of Scotland in 1622
Jones, Margaret: executed in Charlestown, North America, on 15 June, 1648
Jordemaine, Margery: burned at Smithfield, England, on 27 October, 1441
Junius, Johannes: of Bamberg, executed as a witch, on 6 August, 1628
Jung, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Kent, Margaret: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Kerke, Anne: executed at Tyburn, England, in 1599
Kleiss, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 30 October, 1586
Kless, Catharina: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 12 June, 1587
Knertz, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Knor, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Knott, Elizabeth: hanged at St. Albans, England, in 1649
Kramerin, Schelmerey: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Kuhnlin, Elsa: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1518
Kuler, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Lachenmeyer, Waldburg: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 5 July, 1585
deLarue, (first name unknown): burned at Rouen, in 1540
Lauder, Margaret: burned in Scotland in 1643
Leclerc, (no first name given): condemned for witchcraft, in France 1615
Lakeland, (first name unknown): burned at Ipswich, England, in 1645
Lamb, Dr.: stoned to death by a mob at St. Paul's Cross, London, England,
in 1640
Lambrecht, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Leger, (no first name given): condemmned for witchcraft in France, on 6
May,
1616
Liebler, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Lloyd, Temperance: hanged at Bideford, England in 1682
Lowes, John: hanged at Bury, England, about 1645
Lutz, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Macalzean, Euphemia: burned alive in Scotland for witchcraft, on 25 June,
1591
Marguerite, (last name unknown): burned at Paris, France, in 1586
Mark, Bernhard: burned alive at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Martin, Marie: executed in France, in 1586
Martin, Susannah: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Martyn, Anne: hanged at Maidstone, England, in July, 1652
Mayer, Christina: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 9 October, 1586
Mazelier, Hanchemand de: arrested at Neuchatel, Germany 1439
Meath, Petronilla de: burned as a witch, the first such burning in Ireland,
on 3 November, 1324
Meyer, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Mirot, Dominic: burned at Paris, France, in 1586
Morin< (first name unknown): burned at Rouen, in 1540
Mossau, Renata von: beheaded and burned in Bavaria, Germany, on 21 June,
1749
Mullerin, Elsbet: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1531
Mundie, Beatrice: tried for witchcraft in Inverkiething, Scotland 1621
Nathan, Abraham: executed at Haeck, Germany, on 24 September, 1772
Newell, John: executed at Barnett, England, on 1 December, 1595
Newell, Joane: executed at Barnett, England, on 1 December, 1595
Newman, Elizabeth: executed at Whitechapel, England in 1653
Nottingham, John of: died in custody, Coventry, England, 1324
Nurse, Rebecca: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Nutter, Alice: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Oliver, Mary: burned at Norwich, England, in 1658
Orchard, (first name unknown): executed at Salisbury, England, in 1658
Osborne, (husband) (first name unknown): killed by a mob at Tring,
Herefordshire, England, in 1751
Osborne, (wife) Ruth: killed by a mob at Tring, Herefordshire, England,
in
1751
Osburne, Sarah: died in prison at Boston, Massachusetts, 10 May, 1692
Oswald, Catherine: burned in Scotland in 1670
Paeffin, Elsa: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1518
Pajot, Marguerite: executed at Tonnerre, France, in 1576
Paris, (first name unknown): hanged at St. Andrews, Scotland, in 1569
Parker, Alice: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Parker, Mary: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Palmer, John: hanged at St. Albans, England, in 1649
Pannel, Mary: executed in Yorkshire, England, in 1603
Pearson, Alison: burned in Scotland on 28 May, 1588
Peebles, Marion: burned in Scotland in 1643
Peterson, Joan: hanged at Tyburn, England, in April, 1652
Pichler, Emerenziana: burned at Defereggen, Germany, on 25 September, 1680
(her two sons, aged 12 and 14, were also burned two days later)
Poiret, (first name unknown): burned at Nancy, France, in 1620
Porte, Vidal de la: condemned at Riom, France, in 1597
Powle, (first name unknown): executed at Durham, England, in 1652
Prentice, Joan: hanged in Chelmsford, England, in 1589
Preston, Jennet: executed in York, England, in 1612
Pringle, Margaret: burned in Scotland in 1680
Procter, John: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Pudeator, Anne: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Quattrino, Dominic: burned at Mesolcina, Italy, in 1583
Rais, Gilles de: on charges of witchcraft, executed 26 October, 1440
Rattray, George: executed in Spott, Scotland, in 1705
Rattray, Lachlan: executed in Spott, Scotland, in 1705
Rauffains, Catharina: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 7 November, 1586
Reade, Mary: hanged at Maidstone, England, in July, 1652
Redfearne, Anne: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Reed, Wilmot: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Reich, Maria: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 5 July, 1585
Reid, John: hanged himself in prison, in Scotland, in 1697
Reoch, Elspeth: burned in the north of Scotland in 1622
Robey, Isobel: executed in Lancaster, England, in 1612
Rodier, Catala: burned alive at Carcassone, France, in 1335
Rodier, Paul: burned alive at Carcassone, France, in 1335
Rohrfelder, Margaret: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 24 August, 1585
Rosch, Maria: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 6 July, 1581
Rosseau, (no first name given), and his daughter, (no name given) of France,
accused of witchcraft on 2 October 1593
Rue, Abel de la: of Coulommiers, France, accused of witchcraft on 20 July,
1592
Roulet, Jacques: burned alive for being a were-wolf, at Angiers, France,
in
1597
Rum, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Russel, Alice: killed by a mob at Great Paxton, England, 20 May, 1808
Rutchser, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Rutter, Elizabeth: hanged in Middlesex, England in 1616
Sailler, Ursula: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 24 August, 1585
Sampsoune, Agnes: tried, strangled, and burnt for a witch in Scotland 1591
Samuels, (family): three members condemned for witchcraft in Warboys,
England, on 4 April, 1593
Sawyer, Elizabeth, hanged at Tyburn, England, on 19 April, 1621
Scharber, Elsbeth: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1581
Schneider, Felicitas: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 9 March, 1586
Schnelling, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 11 September, 1589
Schutz, Babel: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schwaegel, Anna Maria: beheaded at Kempten, Germany, on 11 April, 1775
Schwartz, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schenck, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schellhar, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schickelte, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schneider, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schleipner, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Schuler, (first name not known): burned at Lindheim, Germany on 23 February,
1663
Schultheiss, Ursula: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 9 March, 1586
Schwarz, Eva: burned at Waldsee, Germany, in 1581
Schwerdt, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Scott, Margaret: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Scottie, Agnes: burned in the north of Scotland in 1622
Sechelle, (first name unknown): burned at Paris, France, in 1586
Smith, Mary: hanged at King's Lynn, England, in 1616
Steicher, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Steinacher, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Steward, William: hanged at St. Andrews, Scotland, in 1569
Stewart, Christian: strangled and burned in Scotland, in November, 1596
Stolzberger, (son) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany,
1628-1629
Stolzberger, (wife) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany,
1628-1629
Stolzberger, (granddaughter) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg,
Germany, 1628-1629
Stuber, Laurence: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Sturmer, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Style, Elizabeth: died in prison, at Taunton, England, in 1664
Seiler, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Silberhans, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Steinbach, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Stier, (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Stadelmann, Ursula: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 7 November, 1586
Sutton (mother) (first name unknown): executed in Bedford, England in 1613
Sutton, Mary: executed in Bedford, England in 1613
Thausser, Simon, and his wife (no name given): burned at Waldsee, Germany,
in 1518
Thompson, Annaple: burned in Scotland in 1680
Tod, Beigis: burned at Lang Nydrie, Scotland, on 27 May, 1608
Treher, Anna: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 5 July, 1585
Trembles, Mary: hanged at Bideford, England in 1682
Trois-Echelles (pseud.): executed at Paris, France, in 1571 (or 1574)
Tungerslieber, (first name unknown) beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Turner, Ann: murdered in England, in 1875
Uhlmer, Barbara: burned at Waldsee, Germany, on 24 August, 1585
Upney, Joan: hanged in Chelsford, England, in 1589
Utley, (first name unknown): hanged at Lancaster, England, in 1630
Valee, Melchoir de la: burned at Nancy, France, in 1631
Vallin, Pierre: executed in France, in 1438
Valkenburger, (daughter) (first name unknown): beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany,
1628-1629
Vaecker, Paul: beheaded at Wurzburg, Germany, 1628-1629
Vickar, Bessie: burned in Scotland in 1680
... Blasphemy is the bulwark of religious rejudice.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK
|Sub: Christianity #1 of 6
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:46:00
EID:1eca 219a7dc0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
CH> Huh? I deleted many of the items, because they were
CH> apparently "tongue-in cheek" comments, without merit.
They were =ALL= "tongue-in-cheek" you silly schmuck!
That's the whole goddamned point!
Sheeeish.
You bitched and pissed in your Fruitloops that the USA
was "anti-Christian," when in fact it is not. Of the
nearly 200 points I sent to you, each one demonstrated,
through parody, the opposite.
... Anything that can be laughed out of this world ought not to stay in
it
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:51:00
EID:8d10 219a7e60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Don Martin to David Rice <=-
DM> Be that as it may, one is ill-advised to misuse
DM> cliches in writing. The original "hoist by his
DM> own petard" refers to a late medieval/early
DM> renaissance sapping device for destroying the
DM> walls of a beseiged town, and is the analogy
DM> of the bomber being blown up by his own bomb.
DM> As such, it is more at home with ideas of
DM> machination than with those of lying. I applaud
DM> your giving delightful old words a new chance
DM> in the sun, but they are better served when
DM> the chance is an accurate one.
So alright already! :-) I was aware of the "proper"
phrase, since my boss uses it damn near every day
(she's medieval after all).
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Mary's Pelvic Exam
|Date: 26 Dec 96 15:56:00
EID:5e61 219a7f00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to All <=-
JH> The following is from the Protevangelion of James, an
JH> apocryphal gospel which was quoted as authoratative
JH> by a number of the early Church Fathers.
Pardon the reformatting of the following.
JH> 14:13 Then the midwife cried out, and said, How
JH> glorious a day is this , wherein mine eyes have
JH> seen this extraordinary sight! 14:14 And the midwife
JH> went out from the cave, and Salome met her. 14:15
JH> And the midwife said to her, Salome, Salome, I will
JH> tell you a most suprising thing which I saw, 14:16
JH> A virgin hath brought forth, which is a thing
JH> contrary to nature. 14:17 To which Salome replied,
JH> As the Lord my God liveth, unless I receive
JH> particular proof of this matter, I will not believe
JH> that a virgin hath brought forth. 14:18 Then Salome
JH> went in, and the midwife said, Mary, shew thyself
JH> for a great controversy is risen concerning thee.
JH> 14:19 And Salome received satisfaction.
ROTFL! Must have been before the actual birth, if
she still appeared "virgin."
Sheeeish. Some stupid Greek, 1800 years ago, fucks
up with a translation and thus makes a pregnant
girl / woman sexually pure, and along comes some
stupidassed Christians to write testimonies saying
it was so. How very Hubbardish!
... The Christian god needs a counselor, not worshippers.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Biosphere
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:02:00
EID:6cdf 219a8040
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Judith Bandsma <=-
>JB> BioSphere (II?) Flopped big time. Of course
>JB> there is also a question about internal
>JB> sabotage by one or more of the participants.
Yeah, but they got to wear real cool jumpsuits!
ML> They kept smuggling in fritos and twinkies (really).
And when a woman was injured, she left the BS (BioSphere)
for treatment, pigged out at a McDonald's, and brought a
bag of hamburgers in with her. Tee hee. So much for
total isolation.
JB> Status? inconclusive.
ML> Status? WOPWAT (What A Phenomenal Waste Of Time).
Or the time their carbom monoxide filters failed, and
they accepted an atmosphere transplant from outside.
... "NO, DAMN IT!" I bellowed, "I'M ON DRUGS! =YOU'RE= DELUSIONAL!" - ML
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: This just in...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:06:00
EID:5a2a 219a80c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to All <=-
ML> Food for thought department.
ML>
ML> Charles Manson is still exchanging gasses in a prison
ML> cell in California.
ML>
ML> Carl Sagan died today from pneumonia complications
ML> after a two year bout with myelodysplasia.
ML>
ML> Anyone care to tell me about a kind, just and loving
ML> God?
The most popular gods around the western world, Yahweh
and Jesus, don't give a shit about justice, kindness,
and love. Tens of thousands of children starving to
death every year proves that.
... Republicans: GOP? Nope--- MWSP (Men With Short Penises).
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Staal wants to know
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:08:00
EID:d3d2 219a8100
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Martin Goldberg <=-
>>MG> Yeah...if Jimbo started thinking..well...let's
>>MG> not discuss it. It's too macabre to talk about.
>>FR> I would start looking for the pods.
>MG> That's just Terrifid.
ML> A little sea water will take care of that problem.
I thought it was rain that did away with the infestation.
... Pieces of seven! Pieces of seven! Parroty error detected.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:15:00
EID:a140 219a81e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
>DR> Les Nessman reported the incident. "I can see the
>DR> helicopter. The door is opening. . . . there seems
>DR> to be something. . . something. . . they're throwing
>DR> brown things out the helicopter door. . . . they
>DR> look like. . . . look like. . . . they look like
>DR> turkeys! Turkeys are raining down on the shopping
>DR> center! Oh, the humanities! I can't. . . I can't
>DR> go on, ladies and gentlemen. . . ."
ML> You left out the BEST line:
ML>
ML> "The TURkeys are hitting the ground LIKE bags of WET
ML> cement!"
[SPEWING POPCORN!]
Bewah hahahahahah! I didn't recall that (it's been years
since I saw the show). Damn, that's funny.
Poor turkeys.
Er, pour turkeys now, I guess.
>DR> I loved that show!
ML> "Booger!" J. Fever, MD.
"Yeah Bailey! You and Jennifer get used to each other's
bodies!" -- Les
... "Be fuckers and multiply...." -- Genesis 1:22 (paraphrased)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Billyboy has his head...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:28:00
EID:ac8c 219a8380
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
>>BW> But instead of answering it intelligently. You throw
>>BW> a fit like a little child.
>DR> Does anyone else. Think that Billyboy here. Is the.
>DR> One who is acting like. A child throwing a temper-
>DR> tantrum?
ML> Yes. I. Do. So. There.
O.h. g.o.o.d.
>>ML> Hardly. I responded in a way that I knew even a
>>ML> blightered asshole like you could understand.
>>ML> Further, if you want to be spoon-fed, go ask you
>>ML> keeper; instead of begging your betters to
>>ML> explain all that you don't and can't understand.
>DR> I just received three messages from the clueless
>DR> little fundy shit (multi-redundant). In each, his
>DR> ONLY reply to every other statement of fact I
>DR> uttered was on the level of "dick breath," "shit
>DR> head," and "ass hole." His method of "argument"
>DR> reminds me of first grade when the teacher was
>DR> out of the room.
ML> It's funny watching Billyboy's MO. He'll make a
ML> bombing run (armed with a new penchant for lemmings,
ML> or pederasty, or excrement); receive his
ML> comedownance, and then he disappears for a couple
ML> of weeks.
Almost as if he were only being let out of his padded cell
one or two weekends a month.
ML> It must take him that long to extract his toes from
ML> his mouth to formulate his idiotic replies.
Part of that time must be used to discovering his toes
ARE in his mouth in the first place.
... The supernatural is what the Emperor was wearing.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Billyboy has his head...
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:32:00
EID:ac8c 219a8400
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
DR> ... up his ass (as usual).
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Bill Wolff <=-
>>>BW> In your dreams Marty. Nobody ever produced a quote
>>>BW> from me where I called Carl Sagan a creationist.
>>ML> Odd, I seem to recall that David Rice, Doc Goldberg and
>>ML> Dan Ceppa have done just that a number of times.
>DR> Only fifteen or twenty times.
ML> Is he naturally that moronic or did he take classes?
He took said clases as a $cientology org no doubt.
>>ML> I guess with your blinders on so tight, you just keep
>>ML> missing those damning posts. Don't blame us for your
>>ML> tunnel vision and lack of foresight.
>DR> All Fundy cults should be required to carry vision care
>DR> insurance for their v\i\c\t\m\s\ members.
ML> Nope. They'd need medical insurance. A "blinderectomy"
ML> is a surgical procedure.
Many ex-fundies got that proceedure repaired. But always
AFTER the brain-reduction surgery had been treated first.
... Quoting Bible to substantiate Bible is not circular reasoning. - kw
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Pizza Warrior!
|Date: 26 Dec 96 16:46:00
EID:6024 219a85c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to David Rice <=-
>DR> And besides: the dog needed the exercise. So did the
>DR> pizza delivery boy....
ML> Damn, it was a funny episode. The pizza guy later
ML> (over a friendly beer) tells me that he's scared
ML> to death of any dog (caniphobia?). Even his gal's
ML> peekawhatever sends shivers up his spine.
I can cure that with an e-meter....
ML> He was in a hurry that night and just wanted to
ML> deliver the pizza and scoot back to the store for
ML> another run (he tells me that he usually rings the
ML> folk's bell and takes 10 or so steps back, but
ML> today he was in a hurry and right at ground zero...)
ML> "Ding dong". I open the door, $20 in one hand and
ML> LadyMcBeast by the collar in the other. He looks
ML> up just in time to see 120 kg of dog, a befurred
ML> owner and hear a deep, resounding "WOOF!"
What a coincidence. The very exact same thing happened
to me when I went to go pick up my blind date last week.
Except the date was wearing the colar....
ML> Pliopleistocene instincts must have taken over. He
ML> jumped a good Michael Jordan 3' in the air, dropped
ML> the pizza, and sprinted to his idiling vehicle (I
ML> don't think his feet ever hit the ground). Funny.
ML> I never knew you could get rubber out of a Vega
ML> in all 3 gears.
Wow. He must have had some canine-inducted trama as
a child. And your dog is such a little thing, too....
ML> I called the store and wanted to speak with the
ML> manager. I told him what had happened and when
ML> the chuckling died down, he said he'd send him
ML> back for the cash.
HE CAME BACK?!?!?!? ROTFL!
"Please, boss! Please don't make me go back there!"
ML> He came back but refused to leave his car. I paid him
ML> for the pizza and added a generous tip. A week later,
ML> I again ordered a pizza and asked if this character
ML> could deliver it. He grudgingly did.
Dog needed more exersize?
ML> He rang the doorbell and stood out on the curb. I
ML> answered the door, sans dog. He slowly inched up the
ML> walk, just as my eldest daughter came around the
ML> corner after taking Lady for her daily constitutional.
ML> I guess he figured that if a 10 year old could handle
ML> her, the dog couldn't be all that bad...
Golly. What a horrible phobia to have. There's so many
dogs on the planet, after all.
A =REAL= atheist would have kept the pizza, turned the dog
loose on him, and stripped the Vega for parts to sell in
Mexico.
... HolySmoke: Fundys knee-deep in gasoline throwing matches at infidels.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ANDREW MASTEN
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:12:00
EID:ee83 219b5980
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to David Rice <=-
>DR> Since the Big Bang defines time, there is no such
>DR> thing as an "outside." This has already been
>DR> explained to you: why do you keep asserting a
>DR> known false hypothesis?
AM> No David, it hasn't been explained, its simply been
AM> asserted by you. And my assertion is not a false
AM> hypothesis, but logical deduction.
Your "logical deduction" is known to be false. How can
there be a "before the Big Bang" where the Big Bang
itself created time (i.e. duration between events)?
Without time, there can be no events, ergo no "cause."
This is very well explained in Black Holes and Baby
Universes.
AM> In the entire history of the universe no one has
AM> observed an uncaused event.
You know the entire history of the universe?! WOW!
AM> Why should the universe be an exception?
Because it is irrelevant.
... Krishna's birth: the ORIGINAL reason for the season!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ANDREW MASTEN
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:26:00
EID:ee83 219b5b40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to David Rice <=-
>DR> be "caused," something would have to previously exist
>DR> to "cause" it--- a paradox, thus a false hypothesis.
>DR> If it was "caused," it would have to be the result of
>DR> an event; since time probably did not exist "before"
>DR> the Big Bang, no events were possible--- another
>DR> paradox, thus also a false hypothesis. Any hypothesis
>DR> that yields a paradox must perforce be false, and
>DR> must be restated or discarded.
AM> If no events were possible before the big bang, then
AM> the universe shouldn't be here.
You are assuming cause-and-effect.
AM> And I see your falsifying my hypothesis on the basis
AM> of a disclaimer "probably". I agree though that time
AM> didn't exist prior to the big bang. Thats why I think
AM> a being outside the realm of time created the universe.
That's a real stupid thing to do: replacing what you do
not understand with a vastly greater unknown. Where did
that "being outside the realm of time" come from? What
caused that being?
... Creationists: the ignorant telling scientists how science is done.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: BILL WOLFF
|Sub: Marty knows everything
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:29:00
EID:35a2 219b5ba0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to David Rice <=-
>DR> Liar Wolff knows all that already. It has been
>DR> explained to him in great detail.
BW> I'm not a liar David the freak! Please show any
BW> evidence where I lied, David the dick head!
ROTFL! That'll sure make people forget you lied!
>DR> Already done, silly fundy. You have been hoised by
>DR> your own canard here YEARS ago, and that fact is
>DR> well known. Your pretense at denial only servers
>DR> to make you appear even more the pitiable fool.
BW> Poor David the moron sees shit that ain't there again.
BW> What a twit! For the zillionth time, please show me
BW> where I called the late Carl Sagan a creationist. But
BW> like always, you'll refuse to.
Already presented twenty times or more, by half a dozen
people or more, in two echoes. Your continued denial
merely makes you appear more the fool.
... Do creationists really believe that we'll believe their lies?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: BILL WOLFF
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:31:00
EID:abb6 219b5be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to David Rice <=-
BW> Look you dumb twit! I don't believe Carl Sagan is
BW> a creationist for starters.
Then you should not have presented him as a Creationist.
... Do creationists really believe that we'll believe their lies?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STEVE QUARRELLA
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 27 Dec 96 11:40:00
EID:e89c 219b5d00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to David Rice <=-
>DR> ... "Oh, I've GOT to bless HER!" -- Father Dean Martin
SQ> ROFL! I'm -way- overdue to rent that one again. I
SQ> just about fell out of my chair when they started
SQ> talking about the "Chocolate Monk."
"You mean they're weren't Fathers?"
"No, they were mothers!"
... "Please don't be blinded by the truth!" -- Mike Salva (to David Rice)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:48:10
EID:209b 219bbe00
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c460ee
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8c1a
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Veneris dies December 27 1996, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
iJcJ>> I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
iJcJ>> mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
sq>> Oh shit, now we're going to have to get a likeness for Mammon, and
sq>> give it away as a door prize at the Holysmoke convention. Love it!
FR> I love it! What's a "Mammon?"
Mammon was one of Yawheh's contemporaries, and was eventually run out of
town as Judaism and Christianity spread in popularity. Mammon is often
associated with money, hence Jones's reference. Given all of the "sacrificing"
we do of our money, I guess that, using Jones's logic, we "worship Mammon."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Atheists do no good'
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:53:06
EID:8bda 219bbea0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c46269
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad JESSE JONES:
JJ>> I am astounded that you and your fellow heathens
JJ>> would brag about such incidents as giving away
JJ>> your last can of Vernors -- the uniqueness of
JJ>> which, as a Detroit native, I readily embrace --
JJ>> as supposed proof of your altruism.
I wonder. If the act of being patronizing had a smell associated with it,
how would it smell?
DR> It made the recipiants' day. I'd call that A Good Thing,
In Spanish, to say "You're welcome," they say "De nada." In French, "De
rien." Quite literally, "Of nothing." It was no big deal, but yet here
we have Jones trying to imply that's about the only beneficent thing I have
ever done. Pretty sad, pretty pathetic.
JJ>> Myself, I had a slow week, what with Christmas shopping
"Well, Jesse, I had my Christmas shopping done by the day afer
Thanksgiving. I guess I'm more eager to please the recipients of my gifts,
eh?" [What utter lunacy.]
DR> Sunday noon while driving home from a ship chandlery,
DR> I watched as the jeep in front of me ejected from its
DR> trunk a large, brightly wrapped present. I hit the
DR> brakes, jumped out of my pickup, grabbed the package
DR> from among heavy traffic, jumped back into my pickup,
DR> and rushed down the highway after the jeep. When I
You should be ASHAMED of yourself. David, don't you realize that nothing
that the heathens do in this echo will convince Jones otherwise that, "for
the most part," atheists do not do good things? You need to seek out a
priest and make your confession!
DR> One can only wonder at your need to believe in gods
DR> before you could be as decient.
I WANT him to keep his deities, as he'd be one more nut running around the
block, "being selfish." He even admitted as much.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Atheists do no good'
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:57:26
EID:8bda 219bbf20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c462c9
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
JJ>> It was not a typical week. Usually I would have fewer social
JJ>> occasions and spend more time on the business of the nonprofit
JJ>> service organizations with which I serve.
DR> Like anyone gives a shit.
I was -so- impressed.
Violet: Charlie Brown, my dad is a better bowler than your dad.
DR> Didn't he already point out he has not ignored your wife? :-)
I think he ignores his, given that he's out here waving his dick in my face.
:)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: The Steve Winter FAQ [2/2
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:59:46
EID:d087 219bbf60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c4635a
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32bdf8cf
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Doug!
Dies solis December 22 1996, Dixit Doug Lee ad Judith Bandsma:
DL> Steve Winter, the man who apparenly is privy to the mind of God, is
DL> reaping what he's sowing.
He's a guy who walks around demanding that others abuse him. Remember what
Bruce Willis was doing in Harlem at the beginning of "Die Hard 3?"
DL> It just goes to show what I personaly believe. If you start pushing
DL> people around, people are going to start pushing back....HARD.
Or, if they figure that the bully will push back, they might put copper
wire at neck height where the bully walks at night. Figuratively speaking,
of course.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 28 Dec 96 00:11:10
EID:20f7 219c0160
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c465f5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72923b25
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> Marty, I know you're not really that stupid. It is
JJ>> manifestly an opinion, based on experience. How would one
JJ>> "prove" a statement like that? It is based on a
JJ>> characterization, a conclusion, about the participants here.
JJ>> It is not quantifiable.
MG> The hell you say. You have made a definite statement about the character
MG> of atheists.
MG> Either retract it or just admit that there is no evidence for it.
Ä Holy Wars Come to YOUR Home Computer! (1:124/9005) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ HOLYSMOKEÄ
Msg : 816 of 2026 -733 +838 1100
From : Jesse Jones 1:135/71 Sun 22 Dec 96
06:09
To : Martin Goldberg Mon 23 Dec 96
02:52
Subj : Lies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quoting MARTIN GOLDBERG to JESSE JONES on 12-16-96
MG> JJ> about it, let me repeat what I have said: For the most
MG> JJ> part, atheists do not do good things." That does not mean,
MG> JJ> I have never said, and I do not believe that it is not
MG> JJ> possible for atheists to do good things.
MG>So, you believe that atheists do no good things over fifty per cent
MG>of the time?
Yes.
MG> Be specific now as your final grade is riding on this.
I can hardly wait.
Jesse Jones -- Miami, FL -- 12/21/96
jcjones@herald.infi.net
ž CMPQwk 1.42 1319
Eschew Obfuscation!
--
Yet, if I say that "For the most part, Christians do not do good things,"
I'll hear howling.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 28 Dec 96 00:12:48
EID:5640 219c0180
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c466c7
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72924022
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Jesse Jones:
JJ>> Michael, as I said to you before you elected to join
JJ>> ranks with the Rice Brothers, a Christian faith which is
Enough! Vader, release him!
MG> This is comic book material. If Mike HAS gone agnostic, he's a far
cry
MG> from the Rice brothers et al. He questions a value. do you have an
MG> answer for him or bible verses?
A rhetorical question? :)
MG> He is questioning what is found int he bible. Don't go tot he
MG> typical fundy tactic of telling him that hte bible is true becasue
MG> the bible says tht it's true.
He pulled a very typical Fundamentalist tactic of seeing things in terms
of black and white: Because Michael wasn't sitting there alongside him,
shooting b.b.'s at "heathens," he was to be lumped in with the evil "Rice
Brothers." Great stuff from a guy who was trying to dodge the tough questions
by calling me a "Fundamentalist" last week.
MG> -+- msgedsq 2.1
MG> + Origin: The Moron Patrol (1:124/9005.221)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 28 Dec 96 00:16:24
EID:03f6 219c0200
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c467a0
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72924fed
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
JJ> This is what I propose. Let us put an end to the HolySmokers fun by
JJ> no longer posting here.
Educating bigoted Fundamentalists is not "fun." It's hard work. If the
J.J. Brothers here would go off and tell their friends "Leave the heathens
alone, they're a nasty lot" instead of "Leave the HOLYSMOKE echo alone,
it's evil," I think they might achieve something towards MY goal, which
is to have these assholes out of my hair, off my doorstep, and out of my
bedroom.
MG> But no matter if it is. There will be more of them. There are hundreds
MG> of them every year.
Each thinking that their approach is unique. I think, that for 1998, we
need to observe certain trends of 1997, such as quoting of McDowell, Fasold,
Berlitz, and other idiots (with respect to Berlitz, whose ancestor was a
brilliant linguist :), threats of prayer on our behalf, global flood stories,
and other Fundie archetypes. Then, in 1998, we'll keep track of how many
times these threads rise up. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 28 Dec 96 01:51:50
EID:d55e 219c0e60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c47d58
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 07ceeb65
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> If you were having problems with the graphics, turn off ANSI. That's
DC> I thought I did, but it only worked in the areas before I went
DC> to load the Mail Door.
This will all be a moot point by the end of January. Bear with me. :)
DC> Drop me a phone number in E-mail. I'm making a collection of
DC> boards that will be available for Fido and pointing.
Got your e-mail. Reply forthcoming.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Don't think, Jesse, gods will do it for you
|Date: 28 Dec 96 01:52:30
EID:f86c 219c0e80
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c47dc0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 42d90905
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Dan, as you should know well by now, I reject the notion that
SQ>> evidence is required for God to exist. Can you prove to me that
SQ>> evidence is required for God to exist? For anyone or anything else
to
SQ>> exist?
Ergo, Dopefish exists. So do leprechauns.
SQ>> And as quickly as we expose it, he tries to cover it.
DC> Look at it this way: I do try to bring out the best in fundys.
And Jesse Jones was a shining example. He -will- be missed, regardless
of all the whining he did about how we "heathens" want him to leave. If
I wanted him to leave, I wanted him to leave -educated,- understanding why
he was, is, and will continue to be the object of ridicule and scorn.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 28 Dec 96 01:54:18
EID:d55e 219c0ec0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c47e31
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 89937363
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Typical Fundamentalist Christian tactics: Answer those tough
SQ>> questions with ad hominems.
DC> Problem is that he wastes them oh so much! He forgets that he
DC> is the slave to his god and thinks everyone else "just has to
DC> be", too.
Over time, he dodged question after question: I -still- don't know how
he gauges that we're all "empty," beyond his missives indicating that I
should listen to the Doors, so why I was wasting my time asking for the
source of his deity's ethics, I am uncertain. I guess when you're working
on a tough exam, you jump around a bit.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MOORCOCK echo
|Date: 28 Dec 96 01:57:00
EID:c55c 219c0f20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c47ea6
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bf1590
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Al!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Al Schroeder ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Hits the Backbone tomorrow. :)
AS> Gotcha. See you there...
I'll be looking for you. :)
AS> BTW, Happy whatever-it-is-you-have-at-this-time-of-year, okay?
I tend to call it "Christmas." I spend the day being empty and avoiding
the opportunity to do good works. Hope you had a Merry Christmas yourself.
:)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Scortched scotch.
|Date: 28 Dec 96 01:58:00
EID:4f14 219c0f40
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32c47ece
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32bf1593
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Al!
Lunae dies December 23 1996, Dixit Al Schroeder ad Steve Quarrella:
JJ>>> I've often speculated that the denizens of this hellhole get
JJ>>> sexually aroused with their rituals of abuse here. Thanks for
JJ>>> confirming it.
SQ>> Now I see he's trying to steal my theories about the Fundamentalists
SQ>> here.
AS> Gives a whole new meaning to the word, "posting", doesn't it?
:) So much for "Thou shalt not steal."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:41:40
EID:0399 219bbd20
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3dcae
MSGID: 1:229/622 32c45f62
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
NC> "Existence" isn't dependent on man's ability to remember
NC> it, science is now aware of many things that man had no
NC> ability to understand or have evidence of.
Gee, you're right. People understand more than they did before
thanks to science. For instance we now know what causes lightning.
We used to think it was God.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 27 Dec 96 22:40:36
EID:d3ad 219bb500
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc2
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c2c835
Hello Glen!
Glen Todd wrote in a message to David Worrell:
DW> Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
GT> Hoo-hah! Maybe I'd better stick around to pick up the
GT> pieces after this one.
Nah, I don't mind..... I actually enjoy this kind of trolling
banter. Dave is after all headmaster of 'The School of Snide
Remarks'. I just keep my ammo dry and wait for the right
moment :-) He is a great teaser - I am just sorry Gwenny felt
hurt by his latest 'snidery'.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: The pitter-patter of litt
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:07:56
EID:2b4f 219bb8e0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc3
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32C31D4A
Hello Ronald!
Ronald Vass wrote in a message to Gwenny The Pooh:
GTP>Maybe critters do it right. If it doesn't move, eat it. (just joking)
RV> Rabbits, minks and goats < these i raised > , will do that
RV> little thing. If they can't leave the area of birth, then
RV> they will remove the birth the only way they can. ie: to eat
RV> it.
RV> Goats will eat the afterbirth, it helps trigger the milk and
RV> returns nutrients back to her body. Goats like rabbits are
RV> none-meat eaters, it surprise the hell out of me to find
RV> myself wrong, when it comes to birthing and what the female
RV> does.
AFAIK all mammals eat the afterbirth (short of man)...
dogs, cats, horses, cows, the great apes, etc.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:36:49
EID:e31b 219bbc80
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc4
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2c
Hello Al!
Al Schroeder wrote in a message to Ronald Vass:
AS> Although we have yet to make Hari Seldon's psychohistory.
RV> So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
AS> So who's the Second Foundation?
How about L Ron and his merry men?
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: errors in the christa
|Date: 27 Dec 96 23:42:29
EID:a892 219bbd40
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc6
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c34d2f
Hello Al!
Al Schroeder wrote in a message to John Brawley:
AS> Right. BTW, ever read his JOB? To really enjoy it, it helps if you
AS> have read Cabell first...because Koschei, the power behind all gods,
AS> is lefted from Cabell directly into Heinlein's scenario.
JB> (*Hmmm.... hole in my reading list....Cabell....)
AS> JURGEN was his most famous novel. THE SILVER STALLION is
AS> good too, and so is CREAM OF THE JEST, but I don't think
AS> you should start out with CREAM.
I think one should definitely start off with Jurgen. I read it
first time as a teenager, and it has many levels of enjoyment
and makes a great road into his weird and wonderful world.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg