God Damned Fundies!
|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Rice - Holographic
|Date: 28 Dec 96 10:46:00
EID:7df8 219c55c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32c54149
Here's what Fredric Rice said to Dan Ceppa about Woofenden - Holographic:
FR> It's likely he has never read the particular book which describes his
FR> particularly bizarre beliefs and thus had not known what to call it.
FR> He knows now, however.
If you are talking about _The Holographic Universe_, no, I have not read
it.
But I had a teacher once who was particularly interested in that theory
and
spoke a lot about it. It's on my reading list--I just haven't gotten to
it yet.
FR> Have you ever gotten him to state what his "theory" is outright? Or
FR> was it all the typical vague, ill-defined, unspecific Goatshit?
I've been stating it all along, Fredric. You just haven't been listening
because you've been too busy setting up your own straw men about concrete
pillows, holographic universes, etc. Why do you find it so hard to _listen_
to
what other people are saying?
dc> He can't, as he also claims to be an xian, I think.
FR> I don't recall him ever saying that.
You haven't been listening.
FR> He does seem to think there are gods, however.
Not gods (plural); a single God. Please listen carefully, Fredric.
FR> A traditionalist Holographic Universe Weenie will state,
FR> however, that there are gods for those people who believe in
FR> them but not for those who don't.
Gee whiz. I must not be a traditional Holographic Universe Weenie. I believe
there is a God for everyone. However, some choose not to believe in that
God.
No please repeat what I just said so we all know that you heard it.
dc> What he appears to be doing is the Brawley routine of showing
dc> that a 'god' must exist.
FR> Otherwise he has to die like everyone else.
I'll repeat to you my challenge to Dan: produce a message in which I claimed
that a god must exist. Produce your evidence, or stop making the claim.
Stating
my belief in God is not the same as making a claim that God must exist in
the
sense that the word "claim" is used here in this echo.
Maybe you should try listening once in a while, Fredric.
--Lee
... Hello? Hello? Is this the person to whom I am speaking?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 29 Dec 96 18:58:00
EID:de47 219d9740
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32c7078e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50b3497
Here's what Fredric Rice said to Robert Curry about Quote:
LW> What are my professed convictions, David?
DR> The absurd belief that human thought and conviction can change
DR> reality.
rc> Well, don't you think that sometimes they can?
FR> Only when acted upon.
David,
I missed the original reply (which I think was yours) the first time around.
But the replies from Robert and Fredric do well enough at representing my
own
views on the subject.
I never argued, or even presented a theory arguing, that people could change
"physical" reality by a pure act of thought or will. That was a
misunderstanding made by several others in the echo, and promptly corrected
by
me. Unfortunately, only a few of those making this mistake listened to my
correction, and the error snowballed. So the discussion of this straw man
continues apace.
--Lee
... A little experience often upsets a lot of theory.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: APOLOGY TO JUDITH
|Date: 30 Dec 96 20:54:55
EID:7bf2 219ea6c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B97
AS> just
AS> at the point when we were finally talking again. Will this cause
AS> another endless harangue about it? Oh, probably. Was it my fault?
AS> Definitely. I publicly apologize to Judith for releasing more
AS> information than she wanted, though, about said picture.
You can't pull that stunt. Don't you know, a 'Real True Christian'
can't be sorry. Now bad to the book of lies, and learn the proper
way of doing it. IOW......Back on that cross....BOY.
We got a bunch of harp's down here, and the points have been baked.
Target lad, we need a target.
** The Trouble with liveing sacrifices **
** is they keep crawing off the altar. **
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | John Brawley Quantum but Non_local Whineing God.
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Square danceing jeep
|Date: 30 Dec 96 18:31:00
EID:16df 219e93e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B98
Dave, playing the fiddle, as Fredric, loss wife to a square danceing
jeep.....
> FR> Amazing. When my wife was taking square dance lessons (years ago
when
> FR> she didn't have her Jeep)
DH>Once you have a Jeep, you don't need square dance lessons any more?
Trying to confuse him ?
> FR> Amazing.
DH>I should say.
She must of got the jeep, from [ Needful Things ]-{Stephen King}
* SLMR 2.1a * Too much money? Get married or run a BBS!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 30 Dec 96 15:33:00
EID:cf75 219e7c20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B99
DW> 'Course, that only counts for GOOD WV jokes. If I hear one more "I didn't
DW> know you had computers in West Virginia" joke, I may do a imitation
of that
DW> one infamous disgruntled postal worker. :)
So, those in WV finally got the TRS-80 computer. Wonders will never
cease.Isn't that 8080 chip fast! Tape backup, 4K memory, 180k
floppy Such power, such speed.
* SLMR 2.1a * Total lack of Ethics?...Become a Christian Lawyer !
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 30 Dec 96 15:26:00
EID:646b 219e7b40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B9A
GTP>MB> "Then how can you know he LOVES you!!!?"
GTP>Well, for one thing, he puts up with PMS.
Wait till the female hits the so called, change of life. It makes
PMS look like childs play. Mistress J, claims i must love her, since
i haven't killed her yet. Poor lass, it's really shakeing her up.
* SLMR 2.1a * Traits we despise in people, we prize as virtues in cats!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 30 Dec 96 15:32:00
EID:10b2 219e7c00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B9B
GTP>MB> Only Vi, the eldest and I, next to the youngest remain cancer-
GTP>MB> free.
GTP>MB> Sometimes life is hard.
GTP>It's times like this that I wish there were some higher court to go
to, for
GTP>would bang on the doors of it until someone answered and I'd deck 'em.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agree. Though you may have to stand in line, along with others.
* SLMR 2.1a * Sin exists only because God loves us.--MH
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Pizza Warrior!
|Date: 30 Dec 96 21:26:00
EID:2485 219eab40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B9C
DR>ML> walk, just as my eldest daughter came around the
DR>ML> corner after taking Lady for her daily constitutional.
DR>ML> I guess he figured that if a 10 year old could handle
DR>ML> her, the dog couldn't be all that bad...
DR>Golly. What a horrible phobia to have. There's so many
DR>dogs on the planet, after all.
DR>A =REAL= atheist would have kept the pizza, turned the dog
DR>loose on him, and stripped the Vega for parts to sell in
DR>Mexico.
Your trying to get that Staaling milkcrate, going again ?
by the way, I like that "=REAL=" bit.
* SLMR 2.1a * Does the Godfather have Satanchildren?
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: more Al trust...........
|Date: 30 Dec 96 20:02:00
EID:e134 219ea040
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B9D
Judith's burning bush
RS> He didn't miss it. He ignored it. There's a difference.
RS> JB> A reference to the work would have been nice. Saying that it
RS> JB> is funny could have built interest and given my page a few
RS> JB> more hits once I get the stuff posted. But nooooooooo....you
RS> JB> have to go and describe it in detail. You only forgot the
RS> Could be. It would be in keeping with the rest of his
RS> actions so far . . .
This time it's a 70/30 split. She did say, a time ago. She wouldn't
get taken in again. Due to Judith trusting nature, she did it to
herself, again. Trusted a Christian Al. Poor Judith, got taken in again.
As to chatter Al, well, ... Al was just being Al. To hell with a respect
of a confidence. Typical, Christian Al outlook, Just got to be 1'st on
the inside track. By the by, track doesn't matter.
Score at fault ---- Judith of the trusting nature 70%
---- Al, 'I control the mind of god' 30%
Results = 100% of, be wary of a fundy christian.
< of the, if you asked, i would of warn you -nature- >
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
If you trust a Christian and get burned, blame yourself
for handing the myth believer the can of gas and lighting
the match.
* SLMR 2.1a * He's not a complete idiot...some parts are missing.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: U never learn
|Date: 30 Dec 96 21:28:00
EID:a482 219eab80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C87B9E
AS> AS> Thanks, mine could use all the prayer I can get.
AS> RC>
AS> RC> Would you like ME to pray for you, too?
AS> I'd be delighted. Spend four hours a day in deep meditation and prayer
to
AS> Ciya. It's a start.
Couldn't you just say, Thank You. Did you have to go into
who to, and how long. I believe you were trying a funny, BUT
with the past, it's just a guess.
Beware the control aspect of your beliefs, for thats how it appears
at this end of the table.
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * At first they burn books. Eventually they burn people.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 30 Dec 96 20:54:44
EID:cd66 219ea6c0
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ca21d7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 4c0d81ff
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Dan Ceppa, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 28 Dec
96 18:03:33:
MG> You are a fucking moron.
SH> ... Martin Goldberg's mindless ad hominems continue
DC> Your lack of posting to show that you aren't a moron doesn't
DC> make up for your stupid tagline. It's your inability to
DC> think for yourself that is in question. Your non-response
DC> only affirms Martin's assement of your lack of mental
DC> attributes that don't surpass that of a coprolite.
If all people can post is ad hominems, it is not worth the effort of typing
a reply.
A tagline is more than adequate.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... Dan Ceppa's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 30 Dec 96 20:57:04
EID:cd66 219ea720
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32ca21d8
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 96523b7e
PID: BWRA 3.11 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Dan Ceppa, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 28 Dec
96 18:07:39:
DC> You are the moron that you have made yourself out to be.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... Dan Ceppa's mindless ad hominems continue
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 01 Jan 97 00:40:02
EID:e5bc 22210500
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2c9fc1d1
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c92e52
Hello Nate!
Nate Cookson wrote in a message to Martin Goldberg:
MG> When you learn how to read a technical journal and interpret the
MG> data, let me know. Your miserable attempt in the
MG> "abortions cause cancer" department was laughable
MG> at best.
NC> And your a example of "higher education"
Even I, with English as a 2nd language, can see how you
butcher the words.
NC> ROTFL !!!!
Sure, roll on the floor as much as you like - holy rollers
are not alien to us - but invest in a grammar book before
you approach Dr Goldberg again.
We all know he is a peculiar typist, BUT we also know
he is not bulling - so he can afford to slide lightly
over the 'proper usage' and still be respected.
Your naive 'breast cancer' article was, however, pathetic.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: ...of Echos and books...
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:04
EID:5724 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff83f
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> I saw you mention that you are reading *Losing Faith in Faith*
MH>> Yeah, I've finished it. The concluding section, on whether the
MH>> Bible is a good moral guide, is a powerfully argued case.
RC> Funny, that isn't the concluding section in the copy I've been
RC> reading.
MH> Hmmm ... perhaps it's been revised. I borrowed a fairly old copy.
MH> Is that section in there at all?
The edition loaned to me is a first printing, copyright 1992, which
contains the following nine sections.
Part 1: Losing Faith
Part 2: Finding Freethought
Part 3: Re-examining the "Good Book"
Part 4: Critiquing Christianity
Part 5: Spreading the Best News
Part 6: Separating State and Church
These last three consist of only one chapter each.
Part 7: Exposing Christian Morality ("Is the Bible a Good Moral Guide?")
Part 8: History or Myth?
Part 9: A Match Not Made in Heaven
MH> Some of the Bible "errors" or contradictions that he lists
MH> I *still* find fairly easily explained. Others, though, I feel
MH> relieved not having to do mental gymnastics over anymore.
Ah. Well, I happen to enjoy mental gymnastics, myself, but not as
a means of defending any preselected dogma.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: what a waste
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:05
EID:ba74 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff840
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Gwenny the Pooh
JS>> (BTW, hav[ing] been married more times than I does not give
JS>> you more experience than I. I was speaking about my having
JS>> experience with a _successful_ marriage.)
RC> And you define success by how much of your wife's money you waste?
JS> No.
You just waste your wife's money because she's the one who does the
actual work for it and not you.
So how do you define a successful marriage to exclude Gwenny's?
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--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:06
EID:2ccc 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff841
TID: GE/2 1.2
SQ>> Remember, he's alluding to me when he talks about "demonic
SQ>> pacts." I'm pretty flattered to think that he thinks I work
SQ>> for his "Satan" deity.
RC> I don't think he's singling out anyone in particular with
RC> the remark about demonic pacts.
SQ> No, but I don't doubt that he has a particular GROUP of people
SQ> in mind, such as myself, you, "The Rice Brothers" ("I want
SQ> the Rosato brothers DEAD!"), David Worrell, Sean McCullough,
SQ> and other people who have consistently pied him with his
SQ> own bullshit.
Well, he certainly did leave the matter open to interpretation.
Because he isn't here to elaborate, I am done with the topic.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:08
EID:028a 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff843
TID: GE/2 1.2
It should read "adaptation," btw.
CJ>> Tidal lock doesn't happen overnight; life could conceivably
CJ>> adapt.
AS>> I don't think adaption will work.
RC> How would you know?
AS> Because one side would be so cold as to have liquid helium,
BEFORE tidal lock occurs? Well, no wonder Curtis soon became
fed up trying to talk sense with you on these matters, as
you don't bother reading his statements with actual comprehension.
So do you know that adaptation could not occur, Al?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: attack of baloney
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:09
EID:64e4 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff844
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Roger once pointed out long ago that I attack on the
AS>> intellectual side,
RC> Resulting in an unarmed assault.
AS> Well, someone recently said I made the best case here,
In the same way crash test dummies make the best case for using
your seat belt, you make the best case for using restraint rather
than trying to bullshit about things in a condescending manner.
AS> but hardly conclusive...I'd mention who, but Lynda would
AS> just accuse me of name-dropping again.
Congratulations on your pride at being crowned King of the Dunces.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:10
EID:9a42 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff845
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Anyway, God is by nature the ULTIMATE explanation.
RC> As it doesn't explain anything, how can you honestly call it any
RC> sort of "explanation?" Dogmatism, yes. Belief, most assuredly.
RC> But an explanation? How so?
AS> For the state of the universe we see;
Delightfully vague, and quite evasive. No one asked you what you
believe a god is supposdly an explanation "for," Al.
The question was how? In what way do you believe a god actually
serves to explain . . . well . . . anything?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:11
EID:cb4a 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff846
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> If many of the factors all fall in the same small range that
AS>> allows intelligent life, it's less likely to be random.
RC> Please continue: If you are dealt a royal flush, is that similarly
RC> "less likely to be random" than being dealt a pair of sevens,
RC> an ace, a three and an eight?
AS> Robert, if I'm playing an opponent, and he gets twenty royal
AS> flushes in a row...I start to look at the cards to see
AS> if they're marked. We're not talking one constant here, or
AS> one hand.
The constants are the playing cards. What we are talking about is
a single shuffle and deal; exactly one observed universe, no more.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:12
EID:432f 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff847
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Brother Jesse praying for all our souls
AS>> Thanks, mine could use all the prayer I can get.
RC> Would you like ME to pray for you, too?
AS> I'd be delighted.
Let me know when you receive the Twelve Revelations from the GDO.
AS> Spend four hours a day in deep meditation and prayer to Ciya.
AS> It's a start.
That's only a start if you want Ciya to slap you for treating her
as some sort of god. The one sure-fire way to piss her off.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:13
EID:1d63 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff848
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> If the symbol representing lack of number in the range
JB>> of number is a number,
RC> "Zero" does not represent "lack of number," John. It is itself
RC> a number, an additive identity element.
JB> I've argued the "character of zero" at length with
JB> mathematicians in other echoes, the upshot of which was we
JB> parted in disagreement, hence I've still got my original
JB> opinion. I'm arguing here from their side.
You are more likely confused and accidentally misrepresenting
their side, John.
Exactly who was it that claimed zero represents "lack of number?"
JB> _My_ actual position is that Zero is _not_ a number.
Your position exposes your ignorance on the matter.
JB> Imho, "zero" is either a place-holder (indicating "lack
JB> of ones" or "lack of tens" etc.)
The NUMERAL zero is generally used as a place holder, yes.
Please do not confuse the numeral with the number.
JB> or the centerpoint of the number line,
Here, what you are thinking of is an origin point.
JB> but not itself a "number."
You are correct in recognizing that a numeral is not a number, and
in recognizing that a point on a line is not a number. What I would
suggest at this juncture is to turn that around to recognize
also that the number zero is not a numeral used as a place holder,
nor is the number zero an origin point on a line.
JB> Calling zero a number is equivalent to my mind, to calling
JB> "nothing" _something_.
The number zero is not "nothing." It is a concept. It is furthermore
a _cardinal_ number, i.e., one that answers the question, "How many?"
How many fingers are on your hand? Five.
Now cut off the fingers one by one, each time asking and answering
the same question. Four, three, two, one, and finally zero. Does
zero mean "nothing?" Of course not! It only means that you have no
fingers left after amputating them all.
Zero is something, after all: it is the cardinality of an empty set.
JB> I get the same crappy arguments against my position when
JB> arguing a "geometric" POINT that has no background space.
JB> Like several other things in the precepts of math, defining
JB> a "point" is a Catch-22: you define "point" by "line"
JB> and "line" by "point(s),"
Traditional, but hardly necessary.
JB> and it seems no math-type person is willing to call a point
JB> a point unless it's seen _against_a_background_space_.
Or, more genrally speaking, without being embedded in a manifold
of a higher dimension. It isn't really required, as mentioned before.
JB> (*grin*) You think "zero" is "well-defined?" Haw!
Would you care for a reference?
If I were particularly nasty, I could always send you to Russell
and Whitehead's _Principia Mathematica_ (wherein they eventually
get around to proving that one plus one equals two, after a couple
hundred pages of rigorous and painstaking goundwork).
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:14
EID:6267 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff849
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> What, no demonic pacts? Or do you do those on New Year's Day?
SQ>> We do those sporadically, but forge "the big one" on Halloween.
SQ>> The two black cats here help out, in fact.
RC> Every Halloween?
SQ> Oh, naturally. That's when all the atheists turn into Satanists
SQ> and eat babies. You mean you haven't been doing this as part
SQ> of the Secret Atheist Underground? Robert, I'm amazed at you!
I never received my Secret Atheist Undergound instruction manual.
RC> So you only rent out your soul by the year?
SQ> I make more money -- to sacrifice to Mammon -- that way.
So that wasn't you with the sign: "Will rent soul for chocolate."
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:15
EID:145b 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff84a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> with or without: Brother Jesse
DC> That sounds almost Brawleyesque in nature.
Watch that stuff! You wouldn't want to get sued, would you?
DC>> I think he actually answer one of your questions this year.
RC> How true; I remember being quite astonished.
DC> It left you speechless for about what? 30 seconds?
Give or take half a miunute.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:16
EID:586d 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff84b
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> Have we had a atheist or agnostic "find Jesus" yet??
GT> Did you look under the sofa?
Don't bother. I think I found what was left of him stuck in the
garbage disposal. What a mess!
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:17
EID:9f80 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff84c
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Dan Ceppa
JB>> I don't claim it exists. I claim I _think_ it exists,
DC> I think the Tooth Fairy exists.
JB> I strongly doubt that.
And if I said that I *know* the Tooth Fairy exists?
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:18
EID:08de 219eb740
MSGID: 1:3603/210 142ff84d
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: John Brawley
AS> I wonder how many people here WOULD be honest enough to make
AS> the experiment? And how many instances it would have to have
AS> to be statistically valid?
You rang?
AS> Now someone will say that the meteorite is an illusion
AS> caused by wish fulfillment.
Hardly. Although a case could be made for suggesting that there
is a "wishful thinking" element involved in the interpretation of
the data. Not to mention the ignorance involved.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 30 Dec 96 19:48:56
EID:d178 219e9e00
MSGID: 1:207/212 13963399
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 5418d09d
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> True, but the savior could as easily have been female.
JS> yes, but the jjpoint is, He wasn't. He was a man.
Why did God hate me so much that he gave us a savior only you men could
relate to?
... David Duke - A Nazi in Conservative Clothing!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 30 Dec 96 19:49:21
EID:fc11 219e9e20
MSGID: 1:207/212 bbfcbc29
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 724ccb61
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> Biology would indicate that the "first person" would have been female.
JS> But he wasn't. REad the book.
I'm not convinced that book is accurate.
... Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 30 Dec 96 19:52:39
EID:f7ba 219e9e80
MSGID: 1:207/212 4c33b1ee
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 a5290f21
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Dan Ceppa...
JS> His Father was God, not Joseph.
JS> (Luke 3:23 NIV) Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he
JS> began his ministry. He was the son, _so it was thought_, of Joseph,
JS> the son of Heli,
Then he doesn't qualify under the prophesies, then does he? If he isn't
the son of Joseph he isn't of the house of David.
... "So you got caught with a flat, well... how 'bout that?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:58:54
EID:bf40 219eb740
MSGID: 1:207/212 2cc08f95
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 a660e3bf
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal wrote to Richard Smith...
JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is organizing the first
JS> million man march on Washington.
And women will die because of it.
Promisekeepers is an organization intended to destroy my rights. As such
I will oppose it until it is shown to be what it is.
... "I remember doing the time-warp..."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 30 Dec 96 23:00:56
EID:e78f 219eb800
MSGID: 1:207/212 c2df1f64
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72e04dbc
On (29 Dec 96) Martin Goldberg wrote to Nate Cookson...
MG> It has long been known that the nursing of babies after delivery is
MG> somehow linked to breast cancer. Those women that do not nurse have
a
MG> higher incidence. However, medical intervention can reduce these odds
MG> to almost zero.
What medical intervention is used, and can this be used to the same
effect for women who have had abortions?
... Taglines: Bumper Stickers of the Info Highway
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:52
EID:2c6c 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Fredric Rice To: Dan Ceppa Subject: Canadian Politics::
dc> Unlike many other languages, virtually all easier to learn
dc> to use, English is more apt to incorporate foreign words
dc> into its lexicon. After all, English itself was a mixture
dc> of Celtic, German and French.
FR> And English is a constantly changing language with new words being
FR> added constantly. "Fundy" is a good one. }:-}
Or "buttpimple Satanist", although that's more of an idiomatic phrase than
a word.
... Mindless Chatter: Built upon the crushed corpses of witless newbies.
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Quote material?
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:53
EID:1277 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Fredric Rice To: All Subject: Quote material?::
FR> I don't claim it exists. I claim I _think_ it exists,
FR> - John Brawley
FR> What do you think? Is this quote material or is it unworthy?
It's sort of borderline. It's a good quote, but it doesn't make much
sense out of context... although that rarely stops anyone round here.
... "I'm trying to concentrate on my own lame material!" -- Crow
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:53
EID:2fab 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Gwenny The Pooh To: Don Martin Subject: 2 corinthians 9:13::
DM> Of course not, and in recognition of hir utter lack of good
DM> deeds is accorded the honorary "Old" designation. _You_ try
DM> pronouncing "WYA" without a question mark.
GTP> I'll tell him.
Why ask WYA?
---
ў TLX v4.00 ў "What kind of wine goes with people?" -- Joel Robinson
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:53
EID:9d92 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Gwenny The Pooh To: Richard Smith Subject: Off topic??::
RS> All right, enough of that. If you want us to talk about you,
RS> you only have to ask . . .
GTP> Oh, you'll all talk about me no matter what I do. But I don't think
GTP> that I'm the main topic of conversation.
Docile, retiring, obedient, and HUMBLE, no less!
---
ў TLX v4.00 ў TV Truth: Every small town has a college and a hospital.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:53
EID:d10e 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Gerry Danen To: Gwenny The Pooh Subject: December 25::
GD> And who will be your authority when you stand before God Almighty
GD> after you die? I'm sorry but I feel very sorry for you. You may just
GD> feel wonderful about yourself right now, but think of the
GD> hereafter...and don't for a moment about reincarnation. It ain't real!
Actually, if I recall Gwenny's inclination correctly, she is far more
likely to have a spot in Vahalla when she shuffles off.
---
ў TLX v4.00 ў Leave the binary thinking to your CPU.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:07:53
EID:2be6 219f78e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
::From: Judith Bandsma To: Alan Hess Subject: HOLYSMOKE::
AH> Actually, they malign Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and other
AH> religions as well.
JB> Pagans and rabid atheists, also. Don't matter who you are or what your
JB> alignment. Sooner or later EVERYONE here takes a pie in the face.
It's a kind of HolySmoke initiation rite. You either take it and stay or
run off screaming into the night.
---
ў TLX v4.00 ў Retired teachers have no class at all.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 31 Dec 96 21:12:00
EID:dee2 219fa980
MSGID: 1:3603/210 14a69d1f
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Judith Bandsma
SH>> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
RC> Hardly. She made a perfectly reasonable inquiry. It's silly for
RC> you to demand that she answer your question about "sponge cats"
RC> (whatever those might be) before you explain what you mean by
RC> the phrase.
SH> Gestapo interrogators usually have reasons for the questions
SH> they ask too.
So what was the reason for your silly question about "sponge cats?"
Enough Nazi-nonsense from South Africa, already. You asked her a
question about "sponge cats" and she inquired to ask what you meant
by that weird phrase. If you have no answer, just say so.
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Steve Hayes
|Date: 31 Dec 96 21:12:01
EID:b11d 219fa980
MSGID: 1:3603/210 14a69d20
TID: GE/2 1.2
I was just wondering.
Would you happen to know what on Earth this guy is babbling about
when he demands answers to his questions about "sponge cats?"
Is it some sort of Afrikaan delicacy?
--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Rice the Terrorist! :-)
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:33:59
EID:5db3 219f9c20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 72fc4f2b
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 fe3d2da4
On Dec 30 03:38 96, Bill Wolff of 1:115/769.2 wrote:
BW> You know, I use to think of you as one of the more
BW> intelligent users here.
Gosh... I don't know wether to laugh or cry.
BW> Although I just may have to change that opinion.
There's a first time for everything.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:21:00
EID:36f5 219e52a0
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Roger Hunter <=-
RH>Goddesses indeed! Nonsense!
KW> Which goddess? ;)
Do I sense a gauntlet being picked up here?
ANY godess. They're all false. I except the Goddess
as embodied in a living human, as a psychological
manifestation of something or other.
... This BBS has achieved Air superiority.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:47:00
EID:e384 219e55e0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Why else do you think he is independently wealthy?
JB> ((........sssshhhhhh...))
Ooops, sorry.
BTW, I'll need another $250k to continue my research....
... Me.. a skeptic? I trust you have evidence.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A GOD'S DIET OF RAPE
|Date: 30 Dec 96 17:42:00
EID:956a 219e8d40
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Another case of "it doesn't matter what you do on Earth". Who
RH> cares how maggots behave?
AS> Unless you have a wound and they're crawling up your arm...
Actually, I heard someplace that drs are using maggots to clean up
infected wounds. It seems their jaws are not strong enough for
living flesh, only dead tissue.
The patient is encourages NOT to watch...
... I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 30 Dec 96 17:43:00
EID:7895 219e8d60
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> people in one body. If the brain was the tool of a soul, the soul
RH> would be able to pass information to both sides. Or at least, be
RH> aware of input from both sides and combine them.
AS> Excellent point, and one I hadn't considered. Let me think on that
AS> one.
For a reference, see Crick's "The Astounding Hypothesis", although
I wish he had covered it more completely.
... Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 30 Dec 96 17:45:00
EID:7500 219e8da0
-=> Quoting Curtis Johnson to Roger Hunter <=-
CJ> Schoenfeld's scenario is interesting, but he explicitly
CJ> states that it is speculative. IMHO, the other half of the book,
CJ> when he gives background, is much more valuable.
CJ> You'd probably also enjoy his much more recent _The Jesus
CJ> Party_, which explores the probable participation of the Jerusalem
Yes, I have that one too.
CJ> Church in anti-Roman activities and the 66-70 AD rebellion.
CJ> He also wrote an earlier study of Paul, in which he argued
CJ> that Paul probably thought of himself as a messiah.
Was that "Those Incredible Christians"? I've read it, but lost
my copy somewhere.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Help help!
|Date: 31 Dec 96 06:35:41
EID:6b20 219f3460
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c8b46c
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b48cc475
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Fredric
Rice
whisper furtively to All something about Help help!:
iJcJ>> The gathering of heathens here to bash believers evidences
ijcj>> deep-rooted insecurity, a profound fear that there
iJcJ>> may indeed be a god who needs therefore to be battled.
FR> Oh dear! He's right! I mean, what if Odin really really does exist?!
Can you say fundy-ka-bob?
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... "Bother," said Pooh as he drew Snake Eyes.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Jimmy Swaggart: True Christian! Don't deny it!
|Date: 31 Dec 96 06:37:03
EID:41b3 219f34a0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c8b4b7
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b48cc478
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
Thursday December 26 1996 14:09, Fredric Rice wrote to Glen Todd:
FR>> I think the human animal _wants_ to be misled, taken advantage of,
FR>> lied to, and made the fool. And I have yet to see any Christian
FR>> master who wouldn't gladly oblige their followers.
gt>> Well, THIS human animal is an old grey wolf who has NO intention of
gt>> tolerating the way Christian 'shepherds' treat their 'sheep'. (Which
gt>> you so accurately described above.)
FR> Take care: You will be punished for the audacious crime of thinking
for
FR> yourself, you know.
They've tried.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, for... ribbit? ribbit?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: A horn we raise in welcome to the God of ecstasy (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Goodbye, cruel world!
|Date: 31 Dec 96 06:38:18
EID:81bc 219f34c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c8b515
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b48cc47a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Fredric
Rice
whisper furtively to Dan Ceppa something about Goodbye, cruel world!:
iJcJ>> I will pray for your souls.
dc>> Got any evidence that you have a soul, Jesse?
FR> Hey, if I were you, I'd take his threat seriously. I mean now we're
all
FR> gonna become just as unthinking as he is. I mean, that guy's gods are
FR> POWERFUL! Look what what they did to him!
'Course, look at what they had to work with. Not many options.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... "Bother," said Pooh as he breached the damn above Johnstown.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Insecurity
|Date: 31 Dec 96 06:41:22
EID:c5cb 219f3520
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c8b5d1
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50b348d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Fredric
Rice
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Insecurity:
CJ>> As the fundies are insecure about their Christian beliefs?
gt>> At least as insecure -- that's why they try so hard to force
gt>> the belief of others; they crave the support for their own belief.
FR> That's one of the most likely reasons why Christanics, Muslims, Jews,
and
FR> Buddahists slaughter themselves, each others, and innocent people:
The
FR> existance of different systems of religious beliefs is akin to telling
a
FR> person, "You're an idiot. You got it wrong. I, however, am right."
The
FR> existance of different brands of theism makes theists insecure knowing
that
FR> billions of people think they're mistaken (or totally ignorant savages.)
Well, I shall continue to do my best to help them feel even more insecure,
then.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Been reading those Illuminati conspiracy books again, huh?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 31 Dec 96 06:45:22
EID:b5cc 219f35a0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c8b6d4
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8bfe
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Fredric Rice!
Friday December 27 1996 14:00, Fredric Rice wrote to Richard Smith:
KB>> and there was a meaning for life?
rs>> Why does life need a meaning?
FR> A "meaning of life" removes the overriding fear that existance is useless
FR> -- while denying the fact that living is its own greatest reward.
Have you ever seen the Monty Python movie 'The Meaning of Life'? Clarifies
things quite nicely, I think.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... Anybody who puts up a BBS qualifies for the space program.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Not here
|Date: 31 Dec 96 14:23:58
EID:055c 219f72e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968F6
CG> My qualifications are, as is; my life is, as is; whether you wish to
CG> believe or disbelieve it, I really couldn't give a damn!
CG> 'Postulation One', should have reached you all by now.
CG> Read you, when I read you,
CG> Chris
Hasn't made it here yet. Assumeing you send it before this notice.
*_______________________*
Forgery In Christianity
Author _Joseph Wheiless
*-----------------------*
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Satan's Son , The nice guy of the bible Myth.
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:23:00
EID:882a 219f62e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968F7
Date: 12-28-96 (19:33)
From: DAN CEPPA
To: CURTIS JOHNSON
Subj: warring christanic
-
DC>On (27 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson got back to Marilyn Burge...
> CJ> RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
> CJ> little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but it looks
> CJ> like:
> CJ> "What, me worry?"
DC>That was my guess, too! Then again, I'm MAD!
i took it as Quid = quibble -- trifling -- or one -- part of --
me = me or mean - part of one or one
An_x_ius = anx_ious = worried or -ane- part of 1 or 1
Sum = as a math total = summary of -me=1of1=sum
then played around with it, till it sounded right.Giveing preference
to the 1 idea and the me, bit. Quibble ? me ? worry ? if sum =0 not
type of thing. using a 0 as no or not or not likely . Since the sum
didn't seem to fit, it assume no-value or nothing.
So kind of like a 'minor worry? me? is/nothing!'. Got the words
wrong, the general idea, right ...... half right
is better then nothing. I guess right for a change, besides i
wantted some fun with abuseing the english language. Going for that
Hardy/Al effect.
....As a given......
...junk to junk.....
>*< Giveing Al a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Al's God, finetunes further developments >*<
>*< And a Hardy ckecks all the Commas >*<
* SLMR 2.1a * Is ignorance worse than apathy? I don't know & don't care
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Xstians v Sinners = Guns
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:43:00
EID:2941 219f6560
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968F8
> LB> Brett and Dan were killing time yakking about Xstians v
> LB> Sinners = Guns:
> CG> If Sinners are no longer human, then it must be OK to shoot them?
> BJ> Since they are human, it's a sin to harm them, let alone kill them.
> DC> Therefore, your god sins if he sends even one of them to hell.
> LB> Amen, Bro. Ceppa.
> LB> ;)
> RS> Now, does Yahveh go to Hell for his sins?
> RV> He gets to debate Al on < Sample Space > and why [ He-2 and
> RV> He II ] are the same thing.
RS> Oh, the inhumanity of it all, the horror! Poor Yahveh . . .
That was rather nasty, wasn't it ?
RS> it isn't as though he doesn't deserve it, though, especially
RS> after the Midianites . . .
You bake up a fine dish like that, then you turn it down.For Shame.
> RV> Even a god, can only handel an
RS> Would that be Handel's Messiah? sometimes I just can't help myself . . . G>
Shit, didn't see that one. A mess like that only a god
could handle.....
That's another for you.
> RV> infinite Al spindoctoring, so long. Music being provided by
> RV> the, Staal_ing Singing Group of One. Afer a month or two of
RS> Oh, that's gotta be annoying . . .
Well, it appears to drive a human to distraction. For Staal_ing Singing
For the Al
bit, change tunes to 'Al beliefs'. It amounts to the same thing, much
noise that means nothing, to the normal person.
> RV> this entertainment, a spear in the side begings to look like
> RV> fun, so Yahveh returns to hell ; to find out why a good idea
> RV> got so twisted around so bad. As you can see, Poor God is
> RV> getting all rejects.
RS> Serves him right. He should straighten his act up and fly
So. . . it takes a bit for the point to get a_cross.
RS> right. Imagine, letting children get raped or starve to
RS> death!
It was that Axe Head. . . getting side track on the worth while ideas.
The crown of thorns will do it to you. . . see side track. Then too,
crow shit in the eye, will smart, also.
> RV> BBBbbbbbooooooooooorrrrrrreeeeeeing,
> RV> MMmmmmmmoooooorrrrrroooonnnnnsss, fundys by the bus load,
> RV> synthesis of various elements, gone wrong.
RS> Some settling and spoilage is bound to occur . . .
A, All Knowing God, would of taken that in account. So . . . what
can we say, God failed math. Send Curry around to teach him the finer
points of that weird creation of man kind.
RS> RV> With nar a bag of chips in any pocket.
RS> LOL . . .
I had to leave out the beer. That Would of Been a S I N . We know
or is that believe, that a god, would never sin. R I G H T ?
Besides, as another aside. I drank the beer. F'ing the god and what it
wantted.
* SLMR 2.1a * "I asked what you knew, not what you believed." - MacLeod
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:53:00
EID:800e 219f66a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968F9
From: RICHARD SMITH Refer#: NONE
To: DAN CEPPA Recvd: NO
RS> };> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
RS> js> Out of obedience to His Father.
RS> DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
RS> RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
RS> DC> You nailed that one right on!
RS> RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one home . . .
RS> DC> You realy pierced me with that one. My side's splitting.
RS> It's a thorny problem: why the whipping? Beats me.
It's that crown of thorns, yer wearing, just trying to drive the point
home. Lash me another one, brother.
* SLMR 2.1a * "I think not," said Descartes -- and promptly disappeared
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: I forget
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:56:00
EID:0d71 219f6700
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FA
RS> DH> was a little shaver. But we didn't kill each other with
RS> DH> them.
RS> Not unless you whacked someone really hard with one . . .
Isn't that really chipping the point? or perhaps, swinging the rod?
* SLMR 2.1a * "I'm getting in touch with my inner bitch" Nicole Hollan
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: God misses victims . . .
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:01:00
EID:51d9 219f6820
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FB
RS> };> Dave Hamilton wrote in a message to Richard Smith <:(
RS> DH> About a message of Richard Smith to All:
RS> >> It is impossible to calculate precise odds for all these
RS> >> events occurring at once. But past performance indicated that
RS> Odd thing, I got the impression that the church was struck by
RS> lightning. Considering that it probably had a metal cross on
> DH> Maybe it was
> DH> someone in the congregation. I've heard some pretty
> DH> ferocious choirs myself.
RS> I'm betting on a neighbor, myself . . .
A strike at nine, may get you one.
O'brother, cross another one and watch the sparks fly.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Is that seat saved?" "No, but we're praying for it."
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: heat
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:02:00
EID:d4f6 219f6840
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FC
RS> };> Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Curtis Johnson <:(
RS> GtP> Yeah, but Jesse's been here for years. I, personally, think
RS> GtP> he persevered very well, even if he was getting a little
RS> GtP> weird toward the end.
RS> I think the word you're looking for here is `gamey' . . .
Thats a little 'rancid', of you.
* SLMR 2.1a * "Not a morning person' doesn't even begin to cover it!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:20:00
EID:7edb 219f6a80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FD
RS> GtP> Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. I believe that
RS> GtP> almost everything that passes for altruism is actually for
RS> GtP> self. I don't think that makes me a bad person, just an
RS> GtP> honest one.
RS> I would have to agree with that . . .
Sucking up to the TIT, are You ? Really milking it, what a way to be
a_breast of the world affairs. A broadside/broadsword of getting in a
lick. Leeching like that makes a lecher of a man, one who may balance on
the ledge of such a breastwork.I better quit, since i've milked this all
too well and now only lapping at the seams.
* SLMR 2.1a * (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:23:00
EID:5b09 219f6ae0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FE
RS> GtP> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I
RS> GtP> think) that they put two cabbages in a room together, with
RS> GtP> electrodes on one of them, and a person went in and cut the
RS> GtP> other to pieces. The first cabbage went ballistic. . .well,
RS> GtP> for a cabbage. Later they paraded quite a few people
RS> GtP> through the room, and when the cabbage murder came in, the
RS> GtP> first cabbage recognized him.
RS> Watson: My God, Holmes, how did you deduce the killer?
RS> Holmes: Elementary, dear Watson . . . the cabbage told me.
RS> Addendum: is the past tense of slay, slaw?
Depends on how it's Ad_dress, doesn't it ?
* SLMR 2.1a * Are U as Abysmally stupid as you seem to be
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: satanism
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:49:00
EID:f243 219f6e20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C968FF
RS> GtP> Destroyed my honeypot?? Dahling, there is ABSOLUTELY
RS> GtP> nothing wrong with my honeypot.
RS> Then I take it you've never met Janet Reno?
You play with the nib of their fancy, they leak at the seams, and
yet!, they proclaim to the world. Their 'pots' not crack!
Women . . . a fracture article . . . slightly capable of holding a
creation for a limited time till it runs out.
Ducking and Running from the Holy_Mackerels of Holy_Smoke. I know...
.I know . . . , why run from such wily women, when we hid all the
rocks.
It's just to be on the safe side of the street.
........ Incomeing ........... ##### SPLAT #####
* SLMR 2.1a * FAITH: Fanatics Abandoning Intelligence Through Holiness
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Rice Brothers
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:51:00
EID:5f65 219f6e60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C96900
RS> SQ> I'm going to change the secret recipe for Vernors so that it
RS> SQ> makes the mind open to suggestion.
RS> So it probably still wouldn't work on fundies, eh?
But if it works on women, he will make megabucks from the
'Rice & Curry' crowd.
* SLMR 2.1a * Don't blame gravity on me, I voted for Velcro.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:56:00
EID:67ab 219f6f00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C96901
RS> SQ> Staal is so cute when he's showing his machismo. I bet he
RS> SQ> wears his wife's underwear.
RS> So that explains why she wasn't wearing any . . .
Picking on poor Staal like this has to be very wearing.
* SLMR 2.1a * She wore an iron bra. Tanks for the mammaries.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 31 Dec 96 14:01:00
EID:3f67 219f7020
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C96902
RS> DM> Check out my personal pet, Nate Cookson. I am thinking
RS> DM> of entering him as "Best of Breed."
RS> JB> In which group? Non-working, non-sporting or toy?
RS> DM> I was going for "non-thinking", but "toy" has
RS> DM> possibilities. Aren't they the ones that makes lots of
RS> DM> yipping noises, shit in sneaky places, and are generally
RS> DM> ineffectual?
RS> RS> Sounds like a match to me. Going to have him fixed? He'll
RS> RS> be a lot more docile and contented.
RS> DM> His repair is, I fear, beyond human compass.
RS> Too bad. And I bet you can't even use the meat for anything
RS> either . . .
Well, you could needle 'it', in a box to find the location you don't
want to go to, depends how needy you are.
* SLMR 2.1a * It's great to be from a Christian Family. Far from.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 31 Dec 96 14:16:00
EID:4eba 219f7200
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32C96903
> RS> Well, since there are more bloody delays with the extortion,
> RS> er, escrow, than there are nits on Staalin's hairy back,
> RS> we've had to put off the move for a day or who knows?
> RS>
> CJ> Patience--and just a bit of that of quid!
RS> Oh, sure . . . when my wife is going through mood-swings
RS> concerning this faster than Speedy Gonzalez goes through
RS> uppers . . .
RS> Being the rational one in the family can be a monumental pain
RS> in the ass . . .
Due to liveing too long, I have come to a few True Test of Love.
One is moveing,another is loseing a job, the other is a close friend or
family who dies.If some where along the line you don't kill each other
or fight, then ,likely you have true love. Then too, thats me and
Mistress J. I've moved 6 times, she move 3 times, since we have knowen
each other. I've had friends and family die, she has had friends die,
we both have lost jobs, due to closer of the company. If any thing can
act as a test of love/careing for each other, then there is at least a
few. The real acid test is yet to come. Wait till your love goes through
the change of life, and feels she is no longer loveable as a women. This
is the worst, yet to come.
* SLMR 2.1a * All life is a conjugation of the verb "to eat".-KDM
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* John Brawley & Quantum Godkiller Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: [2/2] lon mabon ebon
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:01
EID:0e65 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 210085b5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Many thanks for the informative cross-post on High/Low
CJ>> German!
DM> You might enjoy that particular echo. It is all about words,
DM> word origins, and the like. It's # 2181 here on Metronet.
I probably would. Time, though. I'm trying to steel
myself to the notion of full-fledged I-net access when I can't
deal with all the possible RIME and FIDO conferences of my
interest. I bitch about not being able to post to RIME here, but
it's a forced blessing, I think. Besides 10 other
conferences/echoes, I sleuth alt.misc.writing and
rec.arts.sf.written for market/computer-info stuff for the list.
The first in particular has a quite unfavorable noise ratio, but
the signal has quite valuable information.
Bad as the flame wars here get, it's nothing like what is
now going on with alt.misc.writing. There were periodic postings
in groups of 3 by Woodside Literary Agency, which "expanded" from
New York to Marcos Island, Florida. Huh? A dead give-away was
that they were asking to see poetry and short story mss, which no
agent is interested in seeing because the probability of sales is
so slim and the pay (before their commission) is usually so small.
Of course, Woodside asks for money up front, and then
refers you to a manuscript "doctor" (Edit, Ink) well-known for
having kick-back arrangements with disreputable publishers and
agents--i.e., they don't take your ms after having Edit, Ink work
it over.
And the most obvious clue, of course, is that Woodside
spams every conceivable newsgroup in sight (e.g.,
alt.tasteless.jokes).
The upshot, at this stage, is that Woodside has selected
one of the writers alerting people to this scam for special
treatment. They mail-bombed her address; they mail-bombed her
husband's account; and the latest word is that they were
mail-bombing her (legitimate) agent's site. On top, Woodside was
forging her address to post bogus trolls to newsgroups. (To keep
this somewhat on topic) one such was a YOU ARE MORONS post to
alt.atheism. . . .
... BBS Mail: TV for the compulsively literate.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 'bible prophesy'
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:02
EID:7e18 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2100862c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 28 Dec 96 10:57pm, DAVID RICE wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:
>>DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
>>DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
JB>> Uh...I never saw it.
DR> Hummm. I wonder if they were deleted somewhere along the way.
Caught and saved here.
... Ceci n'est pas une tagline.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
u
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: free will
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:03
EID:7d78 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 210086a3
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 29 Dec 96 06:13pm, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
MG>>> arrive at this point where you are still claiming that hell
MG>>> exists in the form of some kind of punishment.
AS>> No; in the form of some sort of quarentine, perhaps.
MG> Semantics. Is prison punishment or quarantine?
MG>>> place of fire and brimstone is not enough to scare them
MG>>> straight, a souless eternity will not do it either.
AS>> Which is one reason why hell very well might be eternal. The
AS>> choice to avoid the right path is, perhaps,
AS>> self-perpetuating.
MG> Yet the Xtian idea of hell is that it is something to keep you scared
MG> straight. Therefore, the very worst persons, who are not scared do
not
MG> see it as a problem. It's ok to knife people, gun them down, and sell
MG> crack to our kids.
AS>> Now; is the doing good because fear of punishment the highest
AS>> reason to do so? Or is it better to do so because it is
AS>> good? And yet a god who does not reward good action is
AS>> unjust. But if the reward was, at best, not immediately
AS>> perceivable...we can still have people acting for good
AS>> because it IS good, and nevertheless reward them for it.
MG> Xtians seem to believe that the way out of hell is through good deeds,
MG> not for the good deeds themselves.
MG> Thyen you go on to say that they are like children, needing to see a
MG> lollipop of some kind long before their reward of eternal salvation.
MG> This really has nothing to do with. I am interested in the connection
MG> between the physical self and the soul and how you can keep saying that
MG> they are one and the same.
Origen gave the game away when he said that the idea of
an eternal hell was useful to keep the "simple" Christians in
ethical and dogmatical line. He himself thought that, through
reincarnation, even Satan would eventually be saved.
... Contrary to popular belief, Origen didn't run UNIX.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: billy "liar" wolff
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:04
EID:25e5 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2100871a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 29 Dec 96 06:28pm, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to JACK KINNEY:
MG>>> Doews anyone have any idea what is wrong with this guy?
JK>> He seems perfectly normal to me.
MG> So, you and Wolff dug any latriens together lately?
Latrine or the Latrian?
... Clop. Clop. "I'm a cowboy-hippie, hippie-ay." Clop. Clop.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
t
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:05
EID:d985 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21008791
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JB>> Maybe for some it might promote 'closure', to me it seems like it
JB>> only promotes guilt and a longer healing period.
MG> I agree, but in all fairness, there are some mothers that actually
MG> request to see the fetus. It's the last thing that I would want, but
MG> then, I've never given birth.
Oxytocin is a mood and mind-altering hormone.
... See that clothes rack in the store? Now, _there_'s a tagline!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: perfection...not
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:06
EID:7407 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21008808
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CG>> What is the proof for there being no such thing as perfection?
CG>> Vaguely recall Witgenstein doing a paper on it.
MG> Because everything claimed to be perfect is a contradiction in terms.
MG> 1. God is perfect
MG> 2. God's plan is perfect.
MG> 3. Humans suffer on occasion
MG> 4. Therefore, perfection has not been achieved.
Buddhist thought has a very interesting end-run around
this.
Perfection is not measured against an Absolute.
Instead, each individual entity/thing is
itself--perfectly--by definition.
... Air pollution: smokestack overflow.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:07
EID:8f6c 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2100887f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Egyptian cat worship does not seem to have been as
CJ>> benign as usually thought. A sampling of the million or so
CJ>> cat mummies found that nearly all were two years old.
RS> Egads. Surely you're not suspecting foul play?
Two-year distemper? Perhaps the ill-temper was caught from
Yahweh.
... Nightmare: Cats with opposable thumbs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:08
EID:f722 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 210088f6
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> "RAP christmas carols"? At 85% (or so) of
CJ>> possible volume? Appetite-ruining beyond doubt.
JB> You really would have had to be there for the full horror to hit you.
At 85% of max volume? It would have physically
assaulted me.
Perhaps the only worse music would have been Devo's "Mac
Attack." But then the bass line was deliberately engineered to
mimic nausea.
... Help! Throw me a line back to the topic!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
* Silver Xpress V4.00
l
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 31 Dec 96 20:47:09
EID:6dbb 219fa5e0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2100896d
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> _The Forever War_ (recommended, BTW) and D. Gerrold's _War with
CJ>> the Chthorr_.
JB> Have read the first but not the second.
I haven't read the books for the second, I have read in sf
mags extracts of the second; mildly interesting. The problems
concerning the next novel in his _Chthorr_ series are of frequent
comment and anticipation in the rec.sf.written newsgroup.
CJ>> absence of evidence? (My was a comment about his
CJ>> obvious patronizing that was the back-breaking straw.)
JB> Yeah...sort of why I stick it to him every time he mentions being
JB> married 16 years. We're close to 23 now. No big deal, just takes time.
If you're curious--if only to illustrate me on your web
page--you're free to e-mail Robert Curry for my true age and
e-mail address.
CJ>> going into full hurt-puppy mode over your reference to him using
CJ>> "harpies." In his haste to go into full hurt-puppy mode, he
JB> Wasn't even MY reference. It was Lynda's. And now Lynda feels like she's
JB> in the hot seat because of it. 'Twasn't her fault, though.
Sorry about not getting my harpies straight. Hard to do
when they're flying all about someone. But then I was relying on
Al's quote. 8-)
Speaking of which: you checked out his message to you
under this subject header? He introduced the reference to _War of
the Worlds_, then when I told him the title suggested that an
organized, armed conflict with gleeps would be considered a war,
and that this the usual usage in sf, he accused me of relying
on sf?!
Is Al trolling to get me back in correspondence with him?
[Fat chance, Al, I'm enjoying my vacation from you too much.]
... See that clothes rack in the store? Now, _there_'s a tagline!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: [2/2] lon mabon ebon
|Date: 31 Dec 96 03:13:10
EID:d9de 219f19a0
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32c9947d
Curtis Johnson said "[2/2] LON MABON EBON" to Don Martin, adding:
CJ> now going on with alt.misc.writing. There were periodic postings
CJ> in groups of 3 by Woodside Literary Agency, which "expanded" from
CJ> New York to Marcos Island, Florida. Huh? A dead give-away was
CJ> that they were asking to see poetry and short story mss, which no
CJ> agent is interested in seeing because the probability of sales is
CJ> so slim and the pay (before their commission) is usually so small.
CJ> Of course, Woodside asks for money up front, and then
CJ> refers you to a manuscript "doctor" (Edit, Ink) well-known for
CJ> having kick-back arrangements with disreputable publishers and
CJ> agents--i.e., they don't take your ms after having Edit, Ink work
CJ> it over.
It is hard enough to write, even to write badly, and so much
heart goes into even bad writing (perhaps especially bad writing)
that the bait of approval from an "agent" must be a powerful tool
for separating the naive from their money.
CJ> And the most obvious clue, of course, is that Woodside
CJ> spams every conceivable newsgroup in sight (e.g.,
CJ> alt.tasteless.jokes).
CJ> The upshot, at this stage, is that Woodside has selected
CJ> one of the writers alerting people to this scam for special
CJ> treatment. They mail-bombed her address; they mail-bombed her
CJ> husband's account; and the latest word is that they were
CJ> mail-bombing her (legitimate) agent's site. On top, Woodside was
CJ> forging her address to post bogus trolls to newsgroups. (To keep
CJ> this somewhat on topic) one such was a YOU ARE MORONS post to
CJ> alt.atheism. . . .
The cyberworld evolves about 30 years ahead of the laws needed
to protect people in it.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 31 Dec 96 08:16:00
EID:f8eb 219f4200
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ c269c883
GtP> BTW, I have FOUR children and a grandchild. Your point?
NC> i've never been able to understand someone who has seen the
NC> miracle of life first hand, and still accept abortian.
I am certainly willing to believe that you don't understand anyone
other that yourself (if, indeed, you understand your own
motivations). Now, explain why other people's decisions, based on
reasons that you can have no idea of, are your problem and why you
feel you should have any input into their decisions?
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: truth
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:17:20
EID:f3ee 22217220
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca7214
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32c6ebdc
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, David!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit David Worrell ad Steve Quarrella:
JJ>>> Well, David, as Bobby Dylan sang, You gotta serve somebody. It may
JJ>>> be the devil, or it may be the Lord, but ya gotta serve somebody.
DW> He figured quoting Jung had no effect, so he tried Dylan.
And how many times has Dylan flip-flopped between Judaeism and Christianity?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:21:40
EID:ce04 222172a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca7309
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Saturni dies December 28 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad FREDRIC RICE:
>> John Jeanneault
FR>> Is calling for the distruption of a FidoNet echo
FR>> an actionable offence or does the resentful fascist
FR>> Nazi Christian have to actually do it first?
DR> A single call to the offending BBS from Styx would
DR> end the problem. Therefore, why would the fundy bother?
Perhaps a call to Fido HQ is in order?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:36:59
EID:8199 219f7c80
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 219092bf
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Quoting David Rice to Me!
DR> -=> Quoting Christian Hedemark to David Rice <=-
DR>>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
^^^^^^^^^^^
DR>CH> Help me.
DR>If you insist.
DR>CH> Where did you find that?
DR>History.
DR> Abbot, Henry: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 4 July,
1597
DR> Abel, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Smithfield, England, on
30 Jul
DR>1540
DR> Alfield, Thomas: tortured and hanged at Tyburn, England, on 6 July,
1585
DR> Almond, John: hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn, England, on 5 December
(MUCH deleted!!!)
David - Trivia info: Shortest verse in the Bible is... "Jesus wept."
I am sure he wept over all the suffering you brought to my attention.
Is it "Christ-like" to weep over suffering. It is not Christ-like to
kill.
All your examples are Man's cruel acts towards Man.
Jesus (Christ) gives us no such examples of Himself acting in such
manner.
The only thing Christ-like about such torture, is that Man did the same
thing to Jesus.
Thank you
---
ў OLX 2.1 TD ў In, not of, in, not of, in, not of, in...
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
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|From: Christian Hedemark
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:37:02
EID:4b23 219f7ca0
MSGID: 1:273/416.0 219092c0
PID: ViaMAIL! v1.20b 95-0056
Fred said to ALL:
FR>How about a contest where theists pray for something to happen and atheists
FR>pray for something else to happen... We could tally-up the results and
use
FR>them to show the value of praying.
Fred!
Exactly to whom (or to what) would an atheist pray to?
I would think, that an atheist would require a lot of faith, to pray for
something.
Chris
---
ў OLX 2.1 TD ў I surrendered.
--- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.20b
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: query
|Date: 28 Dec 96 17:41:28
EID:fa07 219c8d20
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656a5
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c1f6ec1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Chris Green <=-
CG> You wouldn't happen to be the Goldberg who was teamed with
CG> Sticker?
RS> I'm not sure that he was . . .
CG> Dealing with immunology?
RS> He DOES deal with immunology, though.
CG> The same person who Michael Martinez quotes frequently and
CG> extensively? (To be found in the echo Gender and Feminism)
RS> Hard to tell. He debated Martinez to a standstill here
RS> within the last year, so some of that may be still being
RS> tossed around by Mikey.
Martinez is currently posting a Summary of some work done by
Goldberg-Sticker on Immunology, which he says proves that he is right
that AIDS/HIV is not contagious.
Chris
... God? Oh! You mean Unified Field Theory!
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns [1/2]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 17:46:16
EID:d14e 219c8dc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656a6
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e431
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 1 of 2...
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> It is every AMERICAN's right to bear arms, Christian or not. I
AS> personally would prefer more gun control, to keep it out of the hands
AS> of known offenders and the mentally unbalanced. I know why the
AS> founding fathers made it such a point, but when you look at the murder
AS> rates in the USA as opposed to much of Europe, I'm not sure it's worth
AS> the price.
CG> What should be looked at is not so much gun control but rather 'people
CG> control' - controlling who has access.
AS> Agreed.
AS> OTOH, if the Christian Coalition assumed political dominance, and
AS> turned the USA into a theocracy, I'd probably join the underground.
CG> So you subscribe to freedom of choice and the 'inalienable right to
CG> free will'; thus you choose what to believe, but you are prepared to
CG> fight those who would force you to believe (yes, I've over-simplified
CG> it).
AS> Close enough. I believe my way is RIGHT...therefore I don't have to
AS> push it or force it. It's only the insecure that try to FORCE their
AS> religion down your throats, or who are afraid of differing criticism.
True, if working from a strong basis of belief, it is even possible to
deny one's own beliefs and to look at the world from the opposite side
('Memoirs' by Cardinal Heaney), to argue the atheist case.
Criticism is good, it allows us all to explore the limits and boundaries
(that are largely invisible) of a current situation, and the resulting
different points of view tell us if we have broken the bounds (too much
- in my case probably).
Differing viewpoints allow for debate or discussion, without which there
would be little advance made in anything.
Insecure people like to have others, who ought to be even less secure,
so as to provide sensations of power - the biblia is seen by many as a
source of such power.
AS> There ARE things I would fight for, and even kill for. Another Hitler
AS> taking over the USA would be a prime example. Or if the political mood
AS> changed and they herded gays, or blacks, or whatever into
AS> concentration/extermination camps, I would fight that, and in some
AS> cases even kill for that. Is that a contradiction given my direct
AS> orders as a Christian not to kill? You betcha.
CG> The moral maze: which conscience speaks louder? Yes I can understand
CG> that viewpoint: a form of pacifist paradox.
AS> Yes; and sometimes it takes more courage NOT to kill; but in the case
AS> of a dicatorship I'm not sure I would have that kind of courage...the
AS> courage of a Gandhi or a Martin Luther King, to non-violently confront
AS> them. And that is a failing of mine.
It takes a lot of courage to stand up and refuse to kill, especially if
you are a soldier - I'm thinking of a Guardsman (can't remember his
name) who refused to go to the Falklands - he did not feel that the
situation warranted warfare.
Then there are those who were 'conscientious objectors' who went to
prison for their views.
Another set of pacifists, The Society of Friends (Quakers) refuse to
carry weapons, and always volunteer for the role of stretcher bearers in
the front line.
As to courage I think that there are two basic types: there is the
person who does things unthinkingly, who has no concept of what danger
he/she is in eg: Douglas Barder; and there is the person who can
imagine what the danger will be, and what will happen, and who then goes
ahead and does it anyway eg: Leonard Cheshire. Of the two, I think the
second has the harder course.
I would place Gandhi and King in the second category.
CG> Does loving thy neighbour and enemy include shooting them?
AS> No; it should only be undertaken to prevent GREATER evil action.
CG> How do you decide that something has greater evil?
AS> Use your intellect, study history, and always be aware that you might
AS> be wrong. We used to have a few pro-Aryans on here...or at least
AS> people who denied the Holocaust and spoke disparagingly of (at least)
AS> modern day Jews. A lot of people here ignored them. I didn't, and Dan
AS> Ceppa and some others didn't, because we know too well the evil that
AS> can grow out of such seemingly nutty ravings, but instead ridiculed
AS> and spoke out against such ideas.
Courses of action, seldom have the appearance of being 'right' (except
where religionists are concerned); perhaps the term should be 'having
the greater potential for good'.
Fanatics should always be given a public place, so that their ideas can
be refuted; failure to provide public platforms tends to drive such
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns [2/2]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 17:46:18
EID:954e 219c8dc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656a7
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e431
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 2 of 2...
people underground, and they are much more dangerous when hidden, than
when they are allowed space to speak or write.
Chris
... God? Oh! You mean Unified Field Theory!
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC [1/2]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 18:21:06
EID:843f 219c92a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656a8
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e437
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 1 of 2...
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> That too. Two of my sons are autistic. The smaller can speak a few
AS> words, and seems to be learning more, but he doesn't use language
AS> consistently, and the oldest is totally nonverbal. It makes a real
AS> difference when you KNOW they want something, and have to pull down
AS> all the chips or cereal or whatever until you know what they want...
CG> Have you thought about using ASL (American Sign Language), in an
CG> abbreviated form?
AS> Yep. Jamie took speech therapy for years, and when the speech wasn't
AS> developing, they immediately switched to sign language. (At least you
AS> can literally take someone's hands and make them form a sign,
AS> something you can't do with the voice.) That had limited success, but
AS> when he learned the word for "candy" he became a one-note
AS> signer....everything he wanted became "candy". We tried several ways
AS> to discourage that, but it didn't work. Still, he uses enough where
I
Could try using 'candy' as a 'reward' signifier, this means that you
would have to go through the trauma of denying the 'candy' to start
with. But it may be possible to use 'candy' as a working reward.
You could also experiment with different food forms and nutrition to see
what Jamie understands by 'candy'- if this is an 'open-ended' sign, you
may be able to ensure that he gets a balanced diet, rather than simply
sugar-based candies.
I work with a man/boy called Richard who has athetoid cerebral palsy,
age 25 (physically) mental age around 6; speech impediment, and
voluntary use of 2 fingers on his left hand.
Richard tends to use non-vocal body language to communicate; though we
are exploring the use of anger to get 'understandable' speech - when he
gets angry, he is focused, his whole body becomes centred on telling you
something (usually swearing). We've been working on this for a year
now, and he is starting to speak to other people - so he understands
that this 'bridge' enables him to be more independent - thus less
dependent.
AS> can make signs in public places, like school auditorium and churches
AS> and other places, and know he understands...like "no" when he is doing
AS> something wrong, or "more" when he wents more snacks during the
AS> sermon, or something. (He LOVES the music at church, he doesn't need
Have you tried using pieces of music tied to signs as a language?
AS> anything then, but when the sermon comes on, his eyes start to wander,
AS> just as yours would if you were hearing a long speech in Russian when
AS> you didn't know any Russian.) We got him sign children's dictionaries,
AS> a sign ABC with the Sesame Street characters, etc. I also got
AS> interested and know how to cuss fluently by signing. It's quite
AS> amusing.
CG> What about body posture, or using the chin to point with?
AS> Well, they're not crippled physically. They can point. More often
AS> Jamie, at least, taps with his finger.
No, wasn't asking that. People who do not use vocal communication,
often switch to body language. Has any work been done to see if Jamie
is using this?
CG> Here we use a combination of Speech, Language and Occupational
CG> Therapists to assess the communication abilities of an individual; I
CG> don't know if you have a similar setup available?
AS> Oh, there are some WONDERFUL things in Nashville. Jamie, the oldest,
AS> went to preschool at Susan Gray School at the Vanderbilt campus, while
AS> going to Bill Wilderson Speech therepy once a week. And public
AS> schools...perhaps because of the large number of
AS> universities...locally have some of the best programs for autistic
AS> children in the country. People move into our county just for that
AS> reason, and I won't move outside of the local county, although we
AS> could afford bigger quarters in an outlying town, because it would
AS> mean they would to to a different school system. Are you into special
AS> ed?
Not as a teacher, no. Part of the remit for DIGIT, which is the charity
I run, is that we act as Advocates for severely disabled people.
An Advocate is someone who represents the person, and the wants and
needs of that person, we 'speak' for them.
This means that we have to know about forms of communication, in some
instances, like Richard, we have to build a 'bridge' to allow
communication to take place, in the more complex area of 'outside'.
In Richard's case we had to transfer him from the 'inside' world of his
immediate needs, into the 'outside' world of his care team, and the
potential for expansion into the real world - he is currently working
with a 'Social Communications' teacher and is interested in having a
girlfriend.
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC [2/2]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 18:21:08
EID:c03f 219c92a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656a9
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e437
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 2 of 2...
DIGIT also does research (any within the disablement field) for other
charities, we run several databases - though only one is publically
available.
The other side of DIGIT is that we only employ severely disabled people.
Though the term employ is not accurate. The object is to allow someone
who has been trapped by their disablement to find that they can, via
computer, work. We provide a network of people of varying levels of
understanding who can encourage someone to start from scratch. Between
us we come up with the equipment, by suggesting and finding sources of
funding for the person and the equipment they will need for their
particular wants.
By work, this means that they can practise in the 'safety' of DIGIT; if
they want they can stay with us or they can go their own way. You see
DIGIT is just the first few building blocks in a 'bridge' to where ever
they want to go - I suppose we provide 'confidence'.
You may gather, from the content of my mail, that I am not an easy
person to get on with, experience has taught me, that you have to be a
bastard to survive, and you have to be a downright nasty so and so to
get people to listen to you, and to get things for yourself and for
others.
Those of us who started together are I suppose total individualists,
those who are coming through now, don't have so many obstacles to
overcome, and people, in the able-bodied world, are starting to
recognise our value.
CG> You may find that a simple set of gestures, can provide a basis for
CG> building some form of communication. I'm guessing, and I don't have
CG> sufficient data.
AS> Actually, Jamie is taking more to pictureboards....with pictures of
AS> basic needs (bathroom, food, swimming and playing) for him to tap on.
AS> He also can distinguish his written name from another, similar one,
AS> like Jason. (Both start with "Ja".) The youngest has recently started
AS> using language a little more, although it's still inconsistent. He's
AS> using basic words like "bath", "mamma", "dop" for stop, and others a
AS> little more, and this morning (Christmas) had one of those Slinky Dogs
AS> out of Toy Story, and said, "dog". Slowly but surely.
CG> Have a go anyway. Eventually you will find some way of creating the
CG> first brick in your 'bridge'.
Well you've got your first bricks.
AS> We have tried more ways than I like to think about, Chris
AS> although we never fell for that "facillitation" malarkey. But I hope
AS> you're right.
It will get harder, you do know that?
Also, don't discard methods, simply because something has not worked
before does not mean that it won't work in the future.
Positive focus seems to be harmonious sound - trying singing instead of
talking.
Can't sing. Go for singing lessons as a family.
Repetitive harmony may aid concentration.
Pictureboards - link to cartoons - artwork - expression - communication.
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: healing
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:21:16
EID:08b6 219c9aa0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656aa
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e438
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
CG> What is healing?
AS> Curing sickness and disability.
CG> I see, what of? The body? The mind?
AS> Both I think. Certainly that poor lad with the autistic like features
AS> (lack of communication, etc.) who had the demons Legion flung out of
AS> him, and into swine who ran over a cliff, definitely had a mental
AS> problem, demon-creatd or not.
When I was with the 'Moomins', they kept wanting to 'heal' me; my reply
was that by doing so, I would be saying to God, "Heal me of this
learning!"
CG> So healing doesn't have anything to do with the soul?
AS> Ummm. Well, I think the soul's main problem is the sin we can weigh
AS> it down with. So for that "forgiveness" functions much like healing.
In the 'Moomins' they held a meeting for spiritual healing, now that I
have to say made me feel better in an internal spiritual sense.
I have since felt the same feeling during group meditations; so feel
that prayer and meditation are the same thing, just described
differently.
Chris
NB: 'Moomin' : a childrens' animated programme, about a group of
creatures who bear a striking resemblance to cows, who live in a
hollowed-out asteroid in faraway space. Rather appropriate description
for Mormons.
... God? Oh! You mean Unified Field Theory!
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Massada [1/3]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:36:52
EID:ae61 219c9c80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656ab
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e43d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 1 of 3...
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> Oddly enough there is only one that I can make a GOOD case for. But
AS> of course malcontents with the system as it is would be drawn to
AS> movements that are outside the mainstream. Who are you saying are
AS> Zealots among the original Twelve? Not doubting you, just checking
AS> your reasoning.
CG> The ones that I can say for certain, were NOT zealots are Judas,
CG> Andrew and Simon (called Peter).
AS> Why Judas? I can see the others...
Judas, provides an interesting problem, he is sufficiently 'vague' in
terms of description to be a shadow figure - to be a metaphor - a
character who represents betrayal.
Luke (6:16), John (14:22) and Acts (1:13) - give him as the son of
James.
Matthew (10:3) and Mark (3:18) - say he is also called Thaddeus.
Matthew (13:55) and Mark (6:3) - say that he is the brother (Familial
sense) of James and Jesus.
Jude (1) - also called Jude.
Acts (15:22-32) - that he was a prophet. (hence 'prophet of doom')
Matthew (10:4; 26:14-56), Mark (3:19; 14:10-50), Luke (6:16; 22:3-53)
and John (6:71; 12:4; 13:2-30; 18:2-11) - also called Iscariot.
Query: Luke also wrote Acts?
CG> Since I am bound by my own requirement as much as everyone else; I am
CG> unable to use either Bible or concordance.
AS> I will waive that for the duration IF you're interested. If you don't
AS> care, don't bother. But discussing something doesn't necessarily
AS> condone its existence...I can discuss the parentage and children of
AS> Loki in norse mythology without believing Loki exists.
Waiver accepted. :-)
CG> The idea that there were a majority of zealots is proposed by David
CG> Kossoff in his book 'Masada', published by Fontana.
AS> Ah. Haven't read it yet.
AS> Wouldn't He be a tad more martial then? Would He say, "He who lives
AS> by the sword shall die by it" and "turn the other cheek"? I think if
AS> He were just a propaganda figure, He would be more or a warrior.
CG> It would depend upon how martial the majority of the people were, and
CG> what their motivation might be.
AS> Hmmm. Even so, Jesus, who befriended centurions and hobnobbed with
AS> the hated tax collectors, seems an odd choice for propaganda symbol.
Ah, but he was human wasn't he! :-)
Lets take figures who have been leaders from the recent past; say
Churchill or Eisenhower - here is power, but also humility, Eisenhower,
especially, did not want to waste men.
To try other means to solve conflicts rather than warfare; yes I think
any intelligent leader would go for these options.
Good leaders tend to be whole men/women, they are strong and weak at the
same time - in some, like Roosevelt, their weaknesses make them strong.
Perfection does not exist, but there is a need to seek it; and leaders
tend to be people who exhibit such (see Postulation One, message
addressed to All).
Your idea of a 'martial man' would have resulted in the Nazarene being
some form of one-sided psychotic. A Jewish Attila the Hun, maybe?
CG> I'm reminded of the strength of the words given in the Sermon on the
CG> Mount, where Jesus talks of an 'eye for an eye' and 'if your eye
CG> offends thee, then pluck it out'; these are not the words of a total
CG> pacifist.
AS> Uh...on the Sermon on the Mount? Well, yes, but He goes on to say
AS> that's not enough, to "turn the other cheek". I won't quote it, since
AS> that seems to violate your rules, but if you want to check out Matt.
I have quite a large collection of Bibles, suggest we say KJV, since
that is common to both sides of the moat. As to quoting, well we both
have Bibles so it is simply a matter of the location of the reference,
rather than printing it out.
AS> 5:38, it begins around there. If you read it, you will see it's pretty
5:17-48 surely, this is a comparison between the old law and the new.
My reading of the Sermon on the Mount is that it is a Summary of the
Standards of Discipleship; it is also a study of Jewish law.
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Massada [2/3]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:36:54
EID:ea61 219c9c80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656ac
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e43d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 2 of 3...
It is barely 80 generations since the Common Era (hence BCE and ACE);
this is insufficient time for there to have been a dramatic change in
what makes or drives a society or people.
Thus it is fair to say that the Jew of today is a fair representation of
the ones who lived 80 generations ago.
I hate stereotyping. But for the sake of illustration and arguement I
will use a 'cartoon': Jews are: bound by law, voluble arguers, bound by
the family, defenders of law/family/rights, a fighter who uses words or
weapons.
5:17-48 says that the old law holds true, the law given to Moses has not
been overthrown; but the law is a minimum standard and applies to
actions.
5 cases studies are done: murder, adultery, oaths, retaliation and
loving others.
The Nazarene embodies the 'law'; the leadership is expressed in the
assumption of authority 7:21-29. This taking up is done through the
law.
AS> far from what JEsus said. To be fair, He DID say he "came not to bring
AS> peace but a sword" but I think that was more a recognition that He
AS> would be a source of contention, not a call to arms. He also said, "He
AS> who lives by the sword shall die by the sword." But I will agree He
AS> was not totally pacifistic on all things, as the moneychangers in the
AS> temple found out. And the eye pluck out thing is a good point.
The 'sword' is a powerful image; again this is transference of imagery
to leadership - my feeling is that he was a man who prefered words to
war; but that he would not hesitate to put words into actions should all
else have failed.
The Mazarene was bound by the LAW, and the more that he proclaimed the
law, then the more he was bound to defend it, even to the point of
physical violence.
CG> In the Temple he violently attacked the merchants - not the actions
of
CG> a quiet man.
AS> Yes. A mild-mannered milquetoast He WASN'T.
CG> Where he was provoked, so he replied in kind, think of Nicodemus
CG> coming in secret at night, and Jesus rounding angrily upon him.
AS> One can be angry without being a martial figure...otherwise, Harlan
AS> Ellison would be heading the Joint Chief of Staffs.
CG> The Nazarene shows the character of a voluble man, quick tempered, who
CG> speaks long and strong; an orator, who holds his audience; and should
CG> words not be enough, then let actions speak in his stead! :-)
AS> Sometimes. But mildly submissive when arrested and executed.
He knew the law, and he knew that those who opposed him would do so
through the law; would fighting have changed the overall result,
probably not, thus from his own teachings about the law, he would have
chosen to submit.
AS> Well, my main objection is above. If He was a pro-army, pro-Israeli
AS> freedom propaganda tool, why isn't He, ohhhh, the Hebrew version of
AS> Captain America? Or General Patton?
CG> Because he did not fit into the mould that most Jews had waiting for
CG> him; or perhaps, it is truer to say that the populace would no more
CG> have followed Jesus than they would have followed George Patton.
AS> Um. Could be.
No, they were not one people; they were not tribes, but rather groups of
people with differing agendas.
Could Moshe Dayan of modern fame have led them then, I don't think so;
you need to have a singularity of purpose to keep a whole people united
under one leader.
Yes, I think a Messianic Figurehead was created, and failed because the
various Jewish sub-groups all had different ideas as to what were the
qualifications of being a Messiah.
CG> Consider, any modern country which has a guerrilla war going on within
CG> it - the majority of the people are not involved in the fighting,
CG> Yes, there are exceptions, to this eg: Cuba; but even here, the
CG> majority of the people were not directly involved in the fighting.
CG> Happily fanatics form only small proportions of their populations;
CG> unhappily they also get involved in politics and war.
AS> I can't find a single thing to disagree with in ANY of the lines
AS> immediately above this sentence.
AS> ... Given a conflict, Murphy's Law supercedes Newton's.
Agreed. :-)
Chris
>>> Continued to next message...
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Massada [3/3]
|Date: 28 Dec 96 19:36:54
EID:1660 219c9c80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656ad
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e43d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
>>> Part 3 of 3...
... An atheist with a Bible is a fundie's worst nightmare!
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Signposts
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:45:52
EID:268c 219cb5a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656ae
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e442
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> Well, some are. Some, quite frankly, have what I would consider
AS> questionable morality. And some who are not Catholic saints at all I
AS> feel are close to the way God would have them act. Gandhi comes to
AS> mind.
CG> Yes, there is the question which follows on, if you pray to Saints and
CG> the Virgin are people not communicating with sub-gods?
AS> I prefer to deal direct and cut out the middleman, myself.
Is prayer any different to meditation?
CG> My feeling is that those who ask this question, have become confused
CG> by the 'signpost' and that all they can see is the finger, they can't
CG> see which way the 'post' points, nor can they see at what it points.
AS> That's very true.
CG> Yes Ghandi could be said to have been a 'saintly' man.
CG> What about Archbishop Makarios?
AS> In all honesty, that name rings no IMMEDIATE bells, but I'm not
AS> Catholic so maybe it wouldn't. Would you care to tell me who he is and
AS> what he has done? Is he a blot on Christianity, like Torquemada or Jim
AS> Bakker, or is he in the "good guy" camp?
Greek Orthodox Church, Archbishop of Cyprus, supporter of the Greek
Cypriots and it is probable that he worked with EOKA; a patriot if you
are Greek. :-)
Definitely a 'turbulent priest'.
Chris
... Atheism - A non-prophet organisation
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Sinners
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:52:58
EID:b080 219cb680
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656af
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c1e443
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
CG> Is it correct that Sinners are not people of Christ, and thus by so
CG> being, are not really people; this being the case its OK to kill them?
AS> No and no.
CG> You're getting 'nippy' with the old feet there, Al. :-)
AS> Better than taking a few nips from a bottle of Wild Turkey, I
AS> suppose...
AS> I have my own problems with some of the responses of the Vatican
AS> during the actual war...the Pope who proceeded the wartime Pope spoke
AS> out forcefully against Nazi agression. The one who succeeded him was
AS> more a "my country, right or wrong" type, and unfortunately his
AS> country was Italy. He was also a bit paranoid about the communist
AS> menace. It's rather as if, in England, Chamberlain succeeded
AS> Churchill, rather than vice versa.
CG> Had the allies not taken Italy, I don't think that the Vatican would
CG> have remained neutral for much longer; by 1944, Hitler had started
CG> work on the Catholic clergy in Germany - Pastor Niemohler (umlaut over
CG> the 'o') being a notable victim.
AS> Agreed. Shirer produced the plans to Aryanize the church...pretty
AS> chilling....in his book about the Third Reich.
Haven't seen that one, got the title?
Chris
... My karma ran over my dogma
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 28 Dec 96 22:57:56
EID:2394 219cb720
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c656b0
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-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Chris Green <=-
AS> Because He's the simplest hypothesis which covers the greatest number
AS> of phenomena that we observe in the world. From the anthropic
AS> coincidences, to man's altruistic impulses above and beyond societal
AS> necessity, to man's religious or transcendent impulses (by saying
AS> there is something there that IS transcendent). BEFORE THE BEGINNING
AS> by George Ellis (the cosmologist) makes an excellent case thereof.
CG> So you want two basic things: simplicity and a 'Big Daddy'?
AS> Simplicity is always to be wanted in a hypothesis...as long as it
AS> covers the fact. I am perfectly willing to discuss a "Big Mamma"
AS> instead, though.
Mr and Mrs God? With God children?
AS> Ehhh. Most of what I believe can be derived from BEFORE THE
AS> BEGINNING, or Motimer Adler's TRUTH IN RELIGION, or WHO MOVED THE
AS> STONE. Nobody's a totally original thinker.
CG> Hypothesis, thesis, synthesis; and there are only 26 letters, and
CG> someone's bound to have used them before! :-)
AS> Especially if you have fourteen million monkeys typing for years...or
AS> am I thinking of Random House's reject pile?
'Given an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of
typewriters, it is possible to get the Complete Works of Shakespeare'.
Chris
... The seven deadly sins prove that every man has at least eight lives.
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MOORCOCK echo
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:36:50
EID:c55c 22217480
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca769d
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c6b837
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Al!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit Al Schroeder ad Steve Quarrella:
AS> Haven't seen it yet. I put requests on the sysops of both major BBSes
I
AS> use to add it to their message lists...
Have 'em keep hammering away. Frankly, I don't think we're getting out
of Region 19. :-/
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:37:54
EID:f9b6 222174a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca76db
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1324fb3b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, ROBERT!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit ROBERT CURRY ad Steve Quarrella:
RC>> Is that because you failed to receive my post, or because you are
RC>> too caught up in your mutual hate-fest with Quarrella?
SQ>> Oh, please, Robert...you're going a bit overboard. :) I don't
SQ>> -hate- anybody. I just enjoy posting to Jones here, giving him
SQ>> the abuse that he wants and NEEDS. :)
RC> This I know, but I was trying to put it in terms he might understand.
In that case, you'd have needed to call Mr Rogers or Barney to come sing
it to him. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:40:32
EID:20f7 22217500
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca779c
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72e28579
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Yet, if I say that "For the most part, Christians do not do good
SQ>> things," I'll hear howling.
MG> I really doubt that there is really good data one way or the other.
I
I think that's ultimately the point of what we've been trying to bang into
the guy's head. Personally, I think he'd start howling at the moon, though,
if I made the above statement, and there'd be all kinds of defensive posturing
and accusations of "That's a stupid statement." Irony is neat.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:42:26
EID:3bc7 22217540
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca782c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 eda0084c
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Godfather," where he indicated that a lawyer with his briefcase can
SQ>> steal more than can a man with his gun. :)
DC> But not as much as a crooked Senator, which is why he was
DC> trying to go "legit".
Actually, when the Corleone family DOES make their move to go legit, they
are sincere (Part III). Unfortunately for Michael, he learns very quickly
that the legitimate businessmen are bigger crooks than any of the ones with
whom he did business in the syndicate. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Huh?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:45:02
EID:1c7d 222175a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca7896
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c7f2261
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Richard!
Lunae dies December 30 1996, Dixit Richard Smith ad ALL:
CG>> Should you disbelieving, poor little Americans, or other
CG>> ex-colonials wish to check me out you can do so on the
CG>> following UK echoes - unless of course you are ALL
RS> Is there anyone here who ISN'T bored to tears by this whole
RS> display of hoopla?
I get a kick out of these assholes who are fighting wars that ended 200
years ago.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: -> Love Stinks <-
|Date: 01 Jan 97 14:46:42
EID:7ab5 222175c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca78eb
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org b61052ec
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Styx!
Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit Styx Allum ad Sean Mccullough:
SA> I wish everyone here well, Sean. You are no exception.
SA> Please wish Becke and Paul well; and learn that fellowship
SA> (whether dogmatic or not) begins with mutual concern.
SA> *end of sermon*
"Vincent, make your peace with Mr. Joe Zasa." :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:25:32
EID:f54e 22217b20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca8225
REPLY: 1:3603/210 142ff849
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, ROBERT!
Lunae dies December 30 1996, Dixit ROBERT CURRY ad Steve Quarrella:
RC> I never received my Secret Atheist Undergound instruction manual.
Call 1-800-RICEBRO for your copy.
RC>> So you only rent out your soul by the year?
SQ>> I make more money -- to sacrifice to Mammon -- that way.
RC> So that wasn't you with the sign: "Will rent soul for chocolate."
No, that was my wife.
Will do good things for food.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Atheists do no good'
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:55:36
EID:8bda 22217ee0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32ca89bf
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
Lunae dies December 30 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad STEVE QUARRELLA:
SQ>> I wonder. If the act of being patronizing had a smell
SQ>> associated with it, how would it smell?
DR> The sour grapes above sure stink.
That's how you make "whine," I guess. :)
DR> But then, requiring a fear of supernatural retribution in order to
DR> keep from mailing, stealing, and killing is also odorous. I would
DR> not wish such a person as my neighbor.
I maintain that I would call the police if I knew that this person was on
my block. How am I to know whether or not he's given up his deity fantasies?
DR> He may believe that one must suffer greviously before
DR> an act of kindness "counts" for cosmic Brownie points.
He -has- been known to quote at least one Spanish mystic, Juan de Yepes,
in an effort to bolster his claims. I wonder if he's familiar with Frey
LuЁs de LeЂn as well...
DR> Maybe that's why he fled the echo: the cognative
DR> dissonance was getting too loud for him to hear his own
DR> "Is NOT!s" and he took any excuse to run away.
I suspect that he's still lurking. :)
SQ>> I WANT him to keep his deities, as he'd be one more
SQ>> nut running around the block, "being selfish." He
SQ>> even admitted as much.
DR> Wasn't it your pal Tony Alamo who said so on his radio show?
Not my pal, but I wouldn't doubt it. He'd be one more nut in the fruit
basket, that's all.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Re: 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJ
|Date: 01 Jan 97 12:46:10
EID:5426 222165c0
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32CAC9BF
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Marty Leipzig <=-
AM> There is a great deal of evidence for the soul.
ML> Any extra-Biblically?
AM> Thats clever, inserting this statement between a paragraph I've
AM> already written. Is there a level you won't stoop to?
Why don't you answer the question?
... Jesus saves. Moses invests. Cthulhu forecloses.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 01 Jan 97 12:46:11
EID:4b4b 222165c0
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32CAC9C0
-=> Quoting Nate Cookson to Quentin Fai <=-
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
QF> But, so does a hamburger.
NC> Maybe so... Just not as fast... The other difference may also be
NC> that the person eating the hamburger can decide for them selves.. the
NC> Baby doesn't have much say in it.
Does the cow have a say in it?
... The Dark Ages are alive and well in the mind of every fundamentalist.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
* Origin: [The Dark Corner] Still Spitting 'Fire' (1:3652/1)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Steve Hayes
|Date: 01 Jan 97 21:41:34
EID:993b 2221ad20
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2cb24501
REPLY: 1:3603/210 14a69d20
Hello ROBERT!
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
RC> I was just wondering.
RC>
RC> Would you happen to know what on Earth this guy is babbling
RC> about when he demands answers to his questions about
RC> "sponge cats?"
I haven't the faintest idea, but then I rarely understand him
or for that matter what he is doing in HS. China in a bull run
comes to mind :-) Crash, clirrr, @%$*!, ohhhh....
RC> Is it some sort of Afrikaan delicacy?
Not anything I ever heard about - but working in a missiology
department might have given him inside information that we
mere mortal are ignorant of. They may speak in tongues to
each other, for all we know.
The only local 'funny-animal-word-food' I can think of is
Bunny-Chow: 1/2 a hollowed-out bread filled with a meat/veg
curry. Sold by street vendors in certain towns. If it is a
delicacy is debatable, but it is filling - and you may get
botulism, at no extra charge.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Darkness
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:2020 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 041c959e
DH> KW> The odd and horrible thing to me is that this sort of parent so
often
DH> KW> considers themselves to be a 'good' parent.
DH>Sadly, yes. In most of civilization, one must obtain a license to
DH>drive a car but need know nothing to raise children.
Why do you think that particular truism has been reduced to a
cliche?
DH> DH>> I've never ceased to be astonished by the distance people will
go to
DH> DH>> acquire a tiny bit of approval.
DH> KW> It's because they've never felt that they've had it, and that approval
DH> KW> represents the only validation that they can feel safe with.
DH>It seems we are hardwired to collect positive feedback from primary
DH>caregivers as an essential mechanism in the process of growing up.
DH>If it isn't there, we're broken.
I've often wondered if various religious groups apply this deliberately
or
if it was stumbled on by accident. Once carefully broken, most people
will mindlessly lean on their 'support', never once summoning the
courage to mend and grow on their own. Some are so badly broken that
summoning courage isn't even possible for them.
DH> KW> By
DH> KW> being carefully taught to not be able to trust in their own judgement
DH> KW> of 'right' or 'wrong' behaviour, they are set up for a lifetime
of
DH> KW> being tools in other's hands.
DH>And still looking for that one person they can trust to take
DH>care of them. Tragic, really.
One person, one group, and so forth. It's a neatly self perpetuating
cycle.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Freedom OF religion implies the right to freedom FROM religion
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: John Jeanneault
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:7b95 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 66599f59
JJ>LET US UNITE....LET US REFUSE TO POST HERE ANY LONGER...EXCEPT TO SPREAD
THIS
JJ>MESSAGE. LET US NO LONGER SPREAD OUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE...LET US SPEND
OUR
JJ>TIME POSTING TO OTHER MESSAGE AREAS WHERE THERE IS TOLERANCE, AND EVEN
AN
JJ>AUDIENCE WHICH MAY BE OPEN ENOUGH TO HEAR THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST! LET
US SPEND
JJ>OUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY, LET US PROCLAIM HIS MESSAGE WHERE THERE ARE
EARS TO
JJ>HEAR, AND HEARTS TO FEEL!
JJ>Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with them..he
only
JJ>posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook! Let us all do the
JJ>same....let us either get out of here altogether...or let us all barrage
them
JJ>with scripture....with no response to the slap on the cheek, except that
of
JJ>quoting more scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
JJ> HAAAAA!!!!!VICTORY IN JESUS!!!!!!!.......john!
Translation: "I'm making an ass out of myself, and I'm going to run
screaming into the night."
Go hide under your bed, Johnny boy, we aren't going away.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Fundementalism: Proof that anacephaly is not fatal.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: All
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:9eb2 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f59c63bb
I wonder...
I don't know enough to be able to be certain, but here we have a 'man'
slaveringly lapping on devotion to Leonard Bernier:
JJ>Leonard Bernier has the right idea!....He no longer argues with them..he
only
JJ>posts the word of God....and ignores the baited hook! Let us all do the
JJ>same....let us either get out of here altogether...or let us all barrage
them
JJ>with scripture....with no response to the slap on the cheek, except that
of
JJ>quoting more scripture....What say all brothers and sisters?
JJ> HAAAAA!!!!!VICTORY IN JESUS!!!!!!!.......john!
And posting from:
JJ>--- April V0.994PBeta
JJ> * Origin: EYE OF THE STORM (1:225/364.4)
JJ>SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51
Then, following right after we have a slew of LB Spam, posted from:
LB>Jesus Saves North Bay, Ont.
LB>--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
LB> * Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
LB>SEEN-BY: 270/101 280/1 353/250 396/1 3615/50 51
Now, what I'm wondering is are these two the one and same person? Does
a point have to be a whole separate system?
Or have we caught Leonard with his hands and his stung pride in his
pants?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Gays turn their backs to god ... for a good time.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Spam me big boy!
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:11ce 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a1af631b
LB> KW> Why should you dread it? A woman gets called a
LB> KW> 'feminazi' when she had the strength and character to stand up for
LB> KW> herself against little slimy limpdicks like Ken. I would think
that
LB>(G) Like standing up to the likes of Weins is any great task...
That is what is unforgivable, in their eyes. You notice that Ken seems
to have taken out of here with his weeny tail between his legs.
LB> KW> being publicly identified as a man of strength and character would
LB> KW> befit you.
LB>Yes, but in Don's case, he'd then have to be known as a BALD-HEADED FEMINAZI!
LB>That could be unbearable!!
What ever did happen to that bear? Or did the Bear run off
with Ken?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Gentlemen, Start Your Putzes!--Don Martin
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Apocalypse Now
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:b7c6 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6089919d
LB> DC> KW> Richard, you're a baaaaad boy!
LB> DC>Yes, but that is only a post, though it may be part of the FAQ.
LB> DC>In the interim:
LB> DC>... Special Harpy effects supplied by Bandsma, Bustilloz, Withersnight
LTD
LB> KW> You infected my name with Glodbredsim.
LB>Perhaps "wither" is what he figured those harpy effects create ...
I must protest--neither Judith nor you lack anything in the withering
department. I refuse to take all credit!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Getting good results by hocus-pocus is frowned upon.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Isaiah 7:17 / Matthew 01/
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:ffc9 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3ac3d2d1
RV>KW>>>What a surprise. Today the postman delivered 5 golden rings;
RV>KW>>>one for every finger. You're just impossible, but I love it.
RV>KW>>>Frankly, all those birds squawking were beginning to get on
RV>KW>>>my nerves.
RV>KW>>>
RV>KW>(Continued to next message)
RV>It's doing it again Katherine, no next message at all.
If you will give me an e-mail address, and let me know what parts of
anything that you're interested in are missing, I'll forward you a copy.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * katherine.wintersnight@cantina.com (1:381/123)
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Anti-Abortion mania
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:7da0 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 91d55681
ML>Katherine Wintersnight, bereft (missing the plane out of Japan), said
to Marty
ML>Leipzig,
ML> ML> ML> ML> ML> Only if he has the stamen power.
ML> ML> ML> ML> KW> He will if he pollen the steam.
ML> ML> ML> ML> He auxin know better'n that....
ML> ML> ML> KW> He has to seed it for himself.
ML> ML> ML> I just can't stoma this no more.
ML> ML> KW> So shoot yourself.
ML> ML> Have you taken leaf of your senses?
ML> KW> Nope, they're in full bloom.
ML> Now there's a perennial winner.
It's in the green,
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * If you don't think women are explosive, try dropping one!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Lying Jones Scum
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:1a6c 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org bc878d56
ML>Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to David
ML>Worrell
ML> FR> Jones looks at his own dick and sees "demonic pacts."
ML> But he has to squint *really* hard.
Now, don't you worry, he has no trouble whacking that pact around.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * If you wish to succeed, consult three old people.-R.V.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:00b4 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b2b6e691
LB>I needed to extricate myself from a conversation here that had become
LB>exsessively tedious, and in so doing wound up taking a breather for awhile
LB>from the whole thing.
LB>You can thank Katherine, Judith and a few others for insisting on gossiping
LB>in IRC about the latest batch of wierdos - had to come see for myself.
;)
Now, aren't you glad that you didn't miss John Jeaneault's bug out?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Ignorance is bliss, but it will never replace sex.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:84b5 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 82132e49
JJ>JJ>Jesse Jones, I know you mean well and think that somehow by your
JJ>JJ>presence here, that you will somehow touch their hearts, but no, this
JJ>JJ>will not happen as long as you give them the opportunity to ridicule
JJ>JJ>your faith as a hobby. Absent yourself from them, be "set apart" from
JJ>JJ>them, and devote the time you used to spend composing messages to
JJ>JJ>them, to praying for them. You have been one of the most tolerant
and
JJ>JJ>"persistent" Christians in here, but you are not given the least bit
JJ>JJ>of credence by HolySmokers.
JJ> John, I saw your post on this Sunday morning, and continued my
JJ>routine of replying to various posts to me, or those mentioning me.
JJ> But your message kept coming back to me through Church, and the
JJ>Holy Spirit has convicted me you are right. Thank you for your insight
JJ>and faithfulness, and God bless you.
Are you going to run away too? I guess that your self serving list of
'good deeds' just didn't get you the ego gratification that you were
seeking.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Immorality - the morality of those having a better time.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 31 Dec 96 15:02:00
EID:1a98 219f7840
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6b65b0e8
JJ> John's post has convicted me to stop wasting my time with you
JJ>losers.
JJ> Mark 6:11 "If any place will not welcome you and they refuse
to
JJ>hear you, as you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a
JJ>testimony against them.""
JJ> I will pray for your souls.
Yep, you're bugging out. Good luck in finding someone to lick that
wounded ego for you.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * In the echo, the mighty echo, the moderator screams tonight.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:01:08
EID:98bc 22214020
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca1a05
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9e008a0a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Curtis!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Curtis say to Gwenny:
GT>> You just didn't look in the right cans. Five years ago you could have
GT>> found three Book of Mormons and all the associated workbooks and
GT>> handbooks in a trash can in a shopping center on the corner of Star
GT>> Ranch and 115 S in Colorado Springs. Filled the blamed thing
GT>> right up. Now I shudder at the how much those books cost and the fact
GT>> that I COULD just throw away a book.
CJ> I would have left them lying there. I already have a BoM,
CJ> but have found it completely unreadable. My I should try that
CJ> drinking game someone else suggested.
Hmmm, I missed that.
CJ>>> Constantine was not the immediate successor of Diocletian, nor did
CJ>>> Eusebius receive such a commission. Constantine also subsidized
CJ>>> pagan religion, and kept the pagan religious title _pontifex
CJ>>> maximus_.
GT>> Constatine was a Mithras worshipper.
CJ> Plausible, but just what he actually was still seems to be
CJ> controversial. My take is that like a true politician, he put
CJ> himself as a Mithraist to Mithrans, a Christian to Christians,
CJ> etc.
Unfortunately, he finally espoused the Christian religion, and
the rest is ugly, bloody history.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Today's forecast: 80% chance of tomorrow.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:02:23
EID:c329 22214040
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca1ae2
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9e008a81
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Curtis!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Curtis say to Gwenny:
CJ>>> What is the size of a 12-week fetus? Answer her question,
CJ>>> Gnat.
GT>> Tried to slip out of answering, didn't he.
CJ> And I bet he'll keep on trying to avoid it.
Undoubtedly. He has answered many of my messages, but not that one.
CJ>>> Ever do any hunting or live on a farm, or even squish a
CJ>>> roach, to watch the reactions of an animal after it's already
CJ>>> dead? But are you a vegetarian?
GT>> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I think) that
GT>> they put two cabbages in a room together, with electrodes on one of
GT>> them, and a person went in and cut the other to pieces. The first
GT>> cabbage went ballistic. . .well, for a cabbage. Later they paraded
GT>> quite a few people through the room, and when the cabbage murder came
GT>> in, the first cabbage recognized him.
CJ> I have to say I'm skeptical that you read that in _Discover_. What is
CJ> true is that when the foliage of many plants is macerated, compounds
CJ> are released into the air that cause nearby plants to react by
CJ> increasing their production of pest-discouraging compounds. If
CJ> cabbage is such a plant, then it may be plausible that the change-over
CJ> in metabolic activity could be electrically detectable. As for the
CJ> recognition, he/she may still have smelled of cabbage, setting off the
CJ> same effect.
It's possible it was Omni. One of the little blurbs tucked in in unusual
places. But I do know it wasn't on April 1. Discover is damned
sneaky about that issue. My favourite was year they did the article on
someone finding the Holy Grail on Christmas Eve and there being enough left
over dried blood from the Last Supper to do a DNA check on the first god/human
hybrid.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the frigging thing
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:06:07
EID:33f8 222140c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca1e9a
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 dca9a86a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to Gwenny:
Gt>> I had no idea there were so many. But then, I wouldn't be in
Gt>> the position to know. Wild says he took the Triple Nine test
Gt>> on a dare and passed it. But he said he never joined because
Gt>> "they are more boring than the St. Andrews Society."
Gt>> ARGGGGGHHHH! That's scary.
MB> My favorite Mensa story is about the woman I knew who was living
MB> with some guy at the time she took the test. She swears that he
MB> deliberately started a bickering contest with her on the ride to
MB> the test, causing her to break her concentration, which in turn
MB> made her "flunk" the test. Desperate to join, she inquired and
MB> found out that she could not retake the test, but that she could
MB> submit prior test results that would enable her to join, if the
MB> scores were "good" enough. After a couple of years of searching,
MB> she found out that she had taken an IQ test in grade school. She
MB> contacted the New York City school system, and after a frustrating
MB> delay, typical of all bureaucracies, they sent her the score she
MB> had achieved in the second grade on a now-defunct test. It took
MB> Mensa another year of research to determine that the score was
MB> above the cutoff point.
MB> After about 2-3 years of frustration, she was able to join. I find
MB> it hard to believe that joining could be that important to
MB> anybody.
This is sad. Is this a symptom of a wide spread paranoia among the members.
Why would anyone lie to get in?
MB> We were coming up an escalator at the Embarcadero Regency Hyatt
MB> with our name tags on, and a fellow at the landing saw us and said
MB> "gee, you two are members of MENSA!!!?? like it was some big deal.
MB> In order to put him at ease, I shrugged and said something like
MB> "we got lucky on a test one Saturday morning," and smiled. She
MB> spent the next two hours giving me a tongue- lashing because I had
MB> belittled our "accomplishment."
Ya know, I have to admit bemusement at the why the whole IQ test thing works.
Supposedly it is based on ability, not knowledge. So I have tested at 136
everytime I've taken one. If I now, finally, learned how to do algebra,
would my score stay the same?
MB> You're right; they are a bore, for the most part.
Gt>> Bottom line is, I will never qualify for any of them. No use
Gt>> pining about it. My only fear is getting caught in some
Gt>> disaster or catastrophe with a bunch of them. The thought of
Gt>> being the only person with real world skills who knows how to
Gt>> use a can opener TERRIFIES me.
MB> Fear not. They'll all be so busy arguing about some esoteric
MB> minutiae, they won't even know you're around, which will enable
MB> you to pretend they're not around, either.
Ahhh, I see you know some personally, too. Being just on the line (too
bright to one of the "normal" folks, too stupid to be one of the intelligensia),
I just hung with the intellgensia--kinda like a mascot I think. Some
of the things they consider of earth-shattering importance wouldn't even
make it into my top one hundred worries.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A thousand masks in a thousand mirrors.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:27:42
EID:2a15 22214360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2129
REPLY: 1:358/1 50275d8d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Judith:
JB>> Well, WE know there's hope for you. We just want *you* to be able to
JB>> see it.
QF> You know what's really scary? I'm starting to agree with you. But, maybe
QF> it's just the Zoloft. :)
What do you mean, just the Zoloft. If that's what it takes to make you
well, don't disparage it. Sorry, this is one of my personal rants. No
diabetic would make a comment like that, as though if they really wanted
they could control their disease. But I constantly hear people say "oh
poor dear, you have to take medication. I hope it won't be for long."
I don't care how long a person has to take, if it makes them well, it makes
them well. Even twenty years ago many of these medications weren't available.
People spent entire lifetimes in misery and despair. The inconvenience
of taking a little pill is worth the peace.
Sorry, like I said. It's a personal bitch.
I'm really glad you are feeling better. If you don't mind talking about
it, why don't you email me. I have fought depression all my life and finally
seem to be winning. (Either that or I'm too busy to be depressed .
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Beauty is in the hand of the beer holder.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: christian doctrine d
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:33:01
EID:7c88 22214420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca21b8
REPLY: 1:358/1 ffc9684e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Steve:
QF> Well, it's almost the end of the year, and I haven't picked up that
book of
QF> Mormon since the day I got it, so I'm going to have to tell my friend
that
QF> I just didn't feel like reading the damned thing.
QF> But, I don't have the heart to tell her that I drew pipes on all the
QF> pictures I could. :)
Probably more accurate. Joseph Smith gave one of the liberty jail guards
money to go out and buy tobacco. And I recall noting in one of the history
books that men's prayer meetings seemed to involve smoking nasty cigars
and drinking home made liquor. ( When the LDS moved to Utah, one of
the first things they did was found a vineyard)
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: ,
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:38:22
EID:c468 222144c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca22a3
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c82388
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
TD>>>>> I am a Baptist what gives????
DW>>>> At least she isn't a stealth baptist. I seem to have nothing to worry
DW>>>> about.
AS>>> For all you know she's not really a baptist, but a stealth Wiccan,
AS>>> sent by the Todds...
GtP>> Nope, if it's for David, she's a Servant designed JUST like the one
in
GtP>> Misty Lackey's _Jinx High_. . ."clever of those Japanese to think
of
GtP>> putting teeth THERE. . ."
GT> {sounds of unsuccessfully concealed chortling} What a concept.
Assuming he could get it far enough in for the teeth to get hold of anything.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Jesus saves! Passes to Moses! He Shoots! Scores!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: ,
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:39:41
EID:1c56 222144e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca22ec
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32c82b6f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to David:
AS>>> For all you know she's not really a baptist, but a stealth Wiccan,
AS>>> sent by the Todds...
DW>> As I've never had a stealth Wiccan before, at least it would be a
DW>> change.
GT> Us? Send a stealth Wiccan? A Stealth bomber, perhaps.
And Wiccans have better taste than that. . .taste better, too.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I have no problem with God, it's His Fan Clubs I question.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:41:41
EID:6345 22214520
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca236c
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c721b70
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Gwenny:
JJ>>> I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
JJ>>> mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
SQ>> Oh shit, now we're going to have to get a likeness for Mammon,
SQ>> and give it SQ> away as a door prize at the Holysmoke convention.
SQ>> Love it!
GtP>> What exactly does mammon look like.
MM> Most pictures I have seen of Mammon shows him looking like:
MM> Figure along the lines of a fat Buddha, but with an uninhibited
MM> grin or an evil lear, and with skin of gold....
Hmmmm, Buddha's are cute, but I still think we could give out Mammaries.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Blessed are the censors for they shall inhibit the earth.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:43:26
EID:d072 22214560
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca26f2
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 77ed0160
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Gwenny:
Gt>> Remember how you were recently saying that Wild is a wife abuser?
JS> Never said it.
Gt>> Remember how you claimed I had never told you that Wild was my SECOND
Gt>> husband and that the abuser was my first??
JS> Never said that either.
I think Fred said he was archiving again. Shall I have him trot it out.
Naw, probably not. I'm losing interest in this. It's more fun to was David
be an ass.
Gt>> Well, guess what I found
Gt>> while browsing through my old files?? A series of posts from you
Gt>> explaining why Gwenny abuse was okay. Just for chuckles I am
Gt>> reposting an "edited for brevity" copy of it.
-=>> Quoting Jimmy to Jason Harmon <=-
DJS>> My point was that if her smart A** mouth aggravated him as much as
it
DJS>> did me, my revenge was extracted in advance.
JH>> Let it be known that the above
JH>> states that wife beating is OK if the wife has a "smart A**
JH>> mouth."
Ji>> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
Ji>> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
Ji>> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
JS> What has this to do with my particular thought? Some 'doctor' was
JS> being
JS> quoted here.
Ji>> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
Ji>> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
Ji>> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
Yes, Dr. James Staal.
=== Cut ===
Ф Religion Debate Echo (1:128/203.2) ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ HOLYSMOKE
Msg : #5396 [5613] From : Preston Simpson 1:123/318
Wed 20 Sep 95 23:48 To : Dr. James Staal
Fri 22 Sep 95 17:33 Subj : Raise the Standard... ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ
Ф
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Dr. James Staal mumbled "Raise the Standard..."
DJS> I tend to disagree. There is such a thing a 'respect' or a Aretha
DJS> put R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Disrespect can and should invovle punishment to
DJS> correct the situation. If Gwenny or anyone for that matter, had said
DJS> the things to the Lance-man (Judge Ito) that she provoked her little
DJS> man husband with, I'm sure the punishment would be a little more
DJS> than merely bieng slapped about a bit.
Ф Religion Debate Echo (1:128/203.2) ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ HOLYSMOKE
Msg : #5372 [5613] From : AL SCHROEDER 1:116/3000
Wed 20 Sep 95 13:41 To : JIMMY
Fri 22 Sep 95 17:33 Subj : THE DOUBLE STANDARD ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ
Ф
JH> Let it be known that the above
JH> states that wife beating is OK if the wife has a "smart A**
JH> mouth."
Dr. James Staal
Ji> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
Ji> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
Ji> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
Ф Religion Debate Echo (1:128/203.2) ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ HOLYSMOKE
Msg : #5405 [5614] From : Jason Harmon 1:3652/9
Tue 19 Sep 95 18:49 To : Jimmy
Fri 22 Sep 95 17:33 Subj : Re: THE DOUBLE STANDARD ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ
DJS> My point was that if her smart A** mouth aggravated him as much as
it
DJS> did me, my revenge was extracted in advance.
JH> Let it be known that the above
JH> states that wife beating is OK if the wife has a "smart A**
JH> mouth."
Ji> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
Ji> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
Ji> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
Ф Religion Debate Echo (1:128/203.2) ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ HOLYSMOKE
Msg : #5501 [5624] From : Kevin D. Mckenzie 1:157/200
Thu 21 Sep 95 12:00 To : Dr. James Staal
Fri 22 Sep 95 17:34 Subj : Raise the standard... ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ
DR. JAMES spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
DJ> KDM> Jim, no one, male or female, deserves to be beaten for
DJ> KDM> *anything* they say.
DJ>
DJ> I tend to disagree. There is such a thing a 'respect' or a Aretha
DJ>put R-E-S-P-E-C-T. correct the situation.
DJ>If Gwenny or anyone for that matter, had said
DJ> the things to the Lance-man (Judge Ito) that she provoked her little
DJ>man husband with, I'm sure the punishment would be a little more
DJ>than merely bieng slapped about a bit.
Ф Religion Debate Echo (1:128/203.2) ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ HOLYSMOKE
Msg : #6756 [7191] From : AL SCHROEDER 1:116/3000
Sun 24 Sep 95 15:55 To : DR. JAMES N. STAAL
Tue 26 Sep 95 06:03 Subj : THE DOUBLE STANDARD ФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФФ
Ф
Ji> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
Ji> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
Ji> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.
AS> Jimmy, I HOPE I am misreading this. It almost looks as if you are
AS> saying that wife-beating is condoned if a particular wife is a
AS> smartmouth.
DJNS> No, it looked as though I _was_ saying that Gwenny beating was
DJNS> condoned. And yes, you would be correct in saying that.
DJNS> I hope this clarifies things for you. I think your position here
DJNS> belongs right next to the idea that a woman does not expel
DJNS> flatulence.
DJNS> Not really...it started when Gwenny abused me verbally and then
DJNS> told me how her first husband (4'5", 98lbs, with only one arm) use
DJNS> kick thre crap outta her and I said she had it coming.
There it is again.
=== Cut ===
JS> Correct in saying that it _looked_ as thought I was saying that What's
JS> your point?
Gt> DJNS>> No, it looked as though I _was_ saying that Gwenny beating was
Gt> DJNS>> condoned. And yes, you would be correct in saying that.
So, Dr. Staal DIDN'T say, Gwenny beating is okay if Gwenny has a smart A**
mouth. Fascinating.
Gt>> In two locations we see you use the phrase "first husband". So much
Gt>> for your assertion that I never told you. Plus we get to re-live one
Gt>> of your finer fundy fuck-ups.
JS> Yeah, so what's your point? I never denieed you telling me about the
JS> first husband. What are you attempting to get at here?
That you lie like a bad rug.
Gt>> BTW, David is 5'10" and weighed 135 pounds when I was married to him.
JS> Phhhtttt. A twerp like that would be gone like a fart in the
JS> wind. 135lbs? Ha!
Then why did you have to lie about him and say he was 98 pounds?
Obviously you are only familiar with people like yourself who have mental
handicaps. I have many handicapped friends. Those who have disabilities
that involve one or more limbs usually develope working limbs that are stronger
than non-handicapped persons. That is why that "twerp" was able to rip
off the hood of a truck with his one hand.
Ahhh, this is getting boring. It's no fun to torment people who can't learn.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... * <- Tribble ъ <- Tribble wearing condom
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:57:38
EID:5e66 22214720
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2dac
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 aada6f9b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Gwenny:
JS>> I didn't say I didn't remember you having been married before.
Yes, you did. You made a big deal about how you didn't remember my ever
saying that I had a first husband, so Wild must be the wife abuser. Silly
person.
Gt>> Just a couple of weeks ago you were going on and on about how Wild
is
Gt>> a wife abuser because I never told you he wasn't my only husband.
Gt>> Make up your mind or take your meds.
JS> You are in error. I think you have too many meds.
Don't take meds at all.
Gt>>> And, of course, my experience is with men and yours is with women.
Gt>>> No doubt your experience was better. I wonder IF you alledged wife
Gt>>> would agree with assessment of your relationship.
JS>> She is not 'alleged', and yes, she would agree. Call her some time
JS>> after 6:00 P.M. Her name is Diane and her number is (616) 532-2455.
Gt>> I only believe what I can see. It's very easy to fake voices.
JS> Whatever you want to believe is fine with me.
GREAT! Stop proselyting your baby killer.
JS>>> I was speaking about my having experience with a _successful_
JS>>> marriage.)
Gt>>> Length of time does not necessarily denote success.
JS>> Agreed.
Gt>> I'm coming Elizabeth.
JS> Huh!? Wha!?
The memory is the second thing to go.
GT>>> My mother was married to the child molester for 12 years. I know
GT>>> several older women who have been married 30+ years and hated every
GT>>> moment, but the idea of divorce was worse than the idea of being
GT>>> married to a bastard.
JS>> That is not my problem.
Gt>> No, it isn't. But all of the men involved were Christian, as were
the
Gt>> women. They stayed with their husbands because it was a sin to get
a
Gt>> divorce. In my mother's case, when I finally convinced my mother to
Gt>> leave the baby-raper, she got excommunicated. She spent the next ten
Gt>> years trying to find a christian church that worked for her. Then
she
Gt>> came to her senses.
JS> Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.
My mother was Presbyterian by up-bringing and Catholic by choice.
Gt>>> For all we know, the alledged Wilbur is only with you from the
Gt>>> dysfunctional idea that divorce is a sin.
JS>> Nothing 'dysfunctional' about it. God says it, we believe it. The
JS>> 'option' of divorce has never entered in however. We just believe in
JS>> marriage.
Gt>> God also said to kill unbelievers who have land you want, to beat your
Gt>> chilldren, to stone adulterers to death, to burn unwed mothers, to
Gt>> deny the priesthood to the infirm, etc etc. Divorce is NOT forbidden
Gt>> by the bible. It is just strictly regulated so that it only benefits
Gt>> the man.
JS> I see. What Bible do you read?
As I have told you on several occassions, the ONE TRUE (tm) KJV/NIV Parallel
Bible.
JS> (Mat 5:32 NIV) But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife,
JS> except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress,
JS> and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
JS> Adultery, as you know, is a sin.
Deut. 24:1 "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come
t pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath foun some uncleanness
in her; then let him write her a bill of divorment, and give it in her hand,
and send her from his house."
Uncleanness, as you know, is very vague. Adultery, according to Deuteronomy,
was to be punished by death.
GT>>> Or maybe she enjoys abuse.
JS>> What abuse?
Gt>> Living with you.
JS> Evidence???
She lives with you, according to you, willingly. You have condone abuse
in the past. You have been abusive in the past. I offered it as a hypothesis.
You are more than welcome to refute it with your own
evidence.
Gt>>> Or maybe she feels sorry for you.
JS>> Nothing to feel sorry about.
Gt>> Ah, I knew we couldn't agree on everything.
JS> On nothing.
Go up about 76 lines. You agreed with me. It really is MORE OF A CHALLENGE
is you don't debunk yourself in the same post.
GT>>> Having been a co-dependent wife myself, I know that many women will
GT>>> waste their entire lives on worthless men.
JS>> We have a rich life together. Nothing to 'waste' anything on.
Gt>> Again, without seeing her face to face and hearing her agreed, I only
Gt>> have your word for it.
JS> Fly your butt out here and see for yourself. 4285 41st St. Grandville,
JS> MI
Hey, you fly her out here. You are the one claiming to have a happy wife.
Gt>>> My one of my best friends (since kindergarten) is like that. For
Gt>>> twenty years she's been married to the same idiot. He's
Gt>>> "handicapped"--can't hold a job because of his vicious temper and
Gt>>> lack of attention. So she has slaved supporting him and their three
Gt>>> children, because it is god's will for her to endure his anger and
Gt>>> beatings so that he can learn how to be a good man. If she can only
Gt>>> have enough faith and love he will become what she needs him to be.
Gt>>> Sure.
JS>> What ever gets her whinny ass through the night.
Gt>> You ass. She doesn't whine about it. She's "proud" that she has
Gt>> endured this long and that god will reward her for being co-dependent
Gt>> and turning out three co-dependent kids. In fact, if you were to
Gt>> call, as I occassionally do, she would brag about how he's "finally"
Gt>> (again) getting his life together and how rewarded she feels for
Gt>> sticking it out.
JS> Again, just an apostate Mormon speaking. Meaningless...
She's Baptist. What makes you think that all my friends are Mormon? Actually,
I don't have any Mormon friends at this point and hope to keep it that way.
JS>>> ... I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Cor
JS>>> 10:20)
Gt>>> That why none us is friends with Christians.
JS>> Merely your onw personal twisted opinion.
Gt>> Twisted. I like that. Thank you.
JS> We agree on something.
But you said we agreed on nothing. Please make up your mind. . .oh, that's
right, I'm sorry. You don't have one.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Smile! Punishment is fun! ...at least for me!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:26:04
EID:46e4 22214b40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2f2a
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 14e9b652
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Gwenny:
JS>> She is not 'alleged', and yes, she would agree. Call her some time
JS>> after 6:00 P.M. Her name is Diane and her number is (616) 532-2455.
Gt>> I only believe what I can see. It's very easy to fake voices.
JS> Well, Wilbur is really pissed now, and you if have any balls at all,
you
JS> would call her at the above number.
BALLS?!?! You are hypothesising about the Goddess of a Cult of Tit Worshippers
having balls. You are too, too entertaining.
JS> It really isn't that hard at all to affirm that that is indeed my
JS> phone number for the last 30 years. Ask for Wilbur or Diane if you
JS> choose.
Big deal. If you call our house when only Matthew is at home, it is not
difficult to confirm that Michael Jackson lives here. He does
this hysterical bit about how you've reached the Jackson residence, he doesn't
know any Todds. And when you call him Matthew he gets offended and says
he's Michael.
JS> ... Get thee behind me, Satan. - Matthew 16:23
And Satan reappeared behind her whistling and saying, "MMMMmmmmMMMM, you
are just as foxy from bad here."
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... In every gain there is a loss. -- Master Po
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:32:48
EID:c248 22214c00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2f61
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c7f1e9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to ROBERT:
SH> Steve Hayes is replying to ROBERT CURRY, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
26 Dec
SH> 96 02:00:01:
SH>> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
RC>>
RC>> Hardly. She made a perfectly reasonable inquiry. It's silly for
RC>> you to demand that she answer your question about "sponge cats"
RC>> (whatever those might be) before you explain what you mean by
RC>> the phrase. So just what are sponge cats? Hmmm?
SH> Gestapo interrogators usually have reasons for the questions they ask
too.
Answer the question, what are sponge cats?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I dunno - I was astrally projected at the time.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:33:20
EID:45b0 22214c20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2f76
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c7f1eb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Glen:
DW>>> Why do we need to be saved?
SH>> There are some questions that people need to answer for themselves,
SH>> and that's one of them.
GT>> I have, thanks. I doubt you'd care for the answer I got, though.
SH> Well, bully for you :-)
SH> Whether I like the answer or not is irrelevant.
Just as you are.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Every absurdity has a champion to defend it.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: End Times are upon us!
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:33:58
EID:8b06 22214c20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ca2ff0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to CHRIS:
CG>> Is it correct David, that the LDS have a 'Sacred
CG>> Mountain' in which they are supposed to store
CG>> their genealogy records?
DR> I have no idea, but it would not surprise me. The
DR> location would be in The New Zion (center of the
DR> USA) if it exists.
Oh, it exists, dear. It is a huge underground climate controlled storage
area where genealogical records are kept. There have been several "news
articles" on it in the past few years. You can go to your local Ward Library
and request copies of any record to complete your research. Unless you
are smart like me and avoid any contact with them.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... File not found. (A)bort (R)etry (F)lail arms in panic!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Crucifixia 666
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:35:52
EID:3928 22214460
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73037817
REPLY: 1:259/528 26c2df7f
On Dec 27 13:04 96, Crucifixia 666 of 1:259/528 wrote:
C6> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY
C6> ADDRESSES OF GOOD WiCCA/SATANiC STORES iN OR AROUND THE
C6> TORONTO AREA. OR, iF iS WiCCAN OR SATANiC AND WOULD LiKE TO
C6> CHAT, POST ME BACK......K?
All out of Magick Fuck Me Candles?
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Chris Brown
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:43:10
EID:4fe9 22214560
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73038b4f
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 32c5b824
On Dec 28 22:39 96, Chris Brown of 1:163/125 wrote:
C6>> HELLO EVERYONE,
C6>> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY
C6>> ADDRESSES OF GOOD WiCCA/SATANiC STORES iN OR AROUND THE
C6>> TORONTO AREA. OR, iF iS WiCCAN OR SATANiC AND WOULD LiKE
C6>> TO CHAT, POST ME BACK......K?
CB> This has to be a joke.. Satan and Wicca have nothing to do
CB> with each other..
Other than a complete lack of evidence to support their
claims about the supernatural.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
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PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: latest martinez disas
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:49:06
EID:3c9a 22214620
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 730396d4
REPLY: 1:261/1137 9d0a0225
On Dec 29 09:38 96, Curtis Johnson of 1:261/1137 wrote:
CJ> Or--perhaps he knows that he could not certify himself as
CJ> HIV-free? And the entire farrago is an elaborate denial of
CJ> a looming fate?
That has been my guess since the very begining.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
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PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:59:18
EID:21bf 22214760
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7303d394
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A614B94
On Dec 28 15:10 96, Judith Bandsma of 1:372/62 wrote:
DM>> "Ebonics" seems to me a guarantee of second-class
DM>> citizenship for the kids "taught" under it.
Missed Don's original message on this. If a kid can't understand
and communicate in the language of the land of their birth, they
are already branded as second-class citizens.
I applaud the move to treat such kids as non-English speakers.
It would be even better if they refered to "Ebonics" (*) not as
a dialect or a language, but rather called it what it really is:
a learning disablity. It's a handycap that can restrict a student's
chances for a productive life far more than the lack of a limb.
JB> Why does everyone seem to forget that the orignal African
JB> slaves learned English from their WHITE, Anglo-Saxon,
JB> (probably) Protestant, masters?
JB> What they learned there was what was passed down to the
JB> rest of the slave quarters, and the generations that came
JB> after.
That experience came only after being first "broken" by their
French or Spanish importers. Plus, they had no common language
among themselves (Africa is no more linguistically monolithic
than Europe is). A sure formula for a complete mishmash if there
ever was one. It's no wonder that the pidgin English that evolved
has an almost infantile grammar: they had to start from scratch.
* (Three weeks ago it was "nigger talk", now it's "Ebonics".
I'm amazed how quickly things can be ...um... whitewashed.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: False Christian Scum [2/2] [1/2]
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:30:57
EID:a405 22214bc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7303f979
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32c980b0
On Dec 28 12:37 96, Sue Armstrong of 1:246/15 wrote:
SA> But what when companies saturate every market in the world?
SA> Well, then, their only choice is to encourage population
SA> (and thus market) growth. It isn't only religion that
SA> demands more and more people - it's also a demand of the
SA> capitalist system, for what they consider sound economic
SA> reasons. This can be learned in any half-decent business
SA> course.
You sound just like the Unabomber (and I couldn't agree with you
more).
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 31 Dec 96 07:17:49
EID:21c8 219f3a20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df1
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A620B90
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Curtis and Judith were killing time yakking about oh wells:
CJ> going into full hurt-puppy mode over your reference to him using
CJ> "harpies." In his haste to go into full hurt-puppy mode, he
JB> Wasn't even MY reference. It was Lynda's. And now Lynda feels like
JB> she's in the hot seat because of it. 'Twasn't her fault, though.
Well...I was baiting the hook a bit...experimenting, as it were. My future
dealings with him depended on confirming an impression i was getting. But
I didn't expect he'd rebound by stomping on YOUR creative efforts. And I'm
sorry about that, Judith. I know how annoying it is to have someone steal
away from you the pleasure of announcing your own achievements in your own
time and fashion.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Can I take an axe to school tomorrow for um, Show and Tell" -Calvin
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 31 Dec 96 07:24:41
EID:e838 219f3b00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df2
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 2da3d38c
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Dan were killing time yakking about More grist from the web
[2]:
AS> An excellent point! But then, if one chooses not to live a morally
AS> upright life, and not to ask for God's forgiveness, what would you
do
AS> with them?
DC> Your religion consigns them to hell. Makes me want to join, not.
*sigh* "morally upright" by the standards of WHICH era of christianity?
They're going to spend eternity in hell for not conforming to the mores
of
the culture into which they found themselves born?
And as for asking God for forgiveness...just why ISN'T asking 10 minutes
AFTER dying as good as before? Or a year. Or a billion years...
Why in GOD'S NAME does Al think that after an eternity, an unrepentant soul
would continue to be unrepentant? Or that the victims of such a person
would still be holding a grudge?
I see an image here of his heaven....that has me continuing to cower at
the
thought of coming face to face with my abuser...so that he must be
'quarantened' or snuffed out altogether (Al's worst fear, that...) to avoid
causing me discomfort. what that SAYS is that an eternity from now i am
still
going to be overcoming the effects of that abuse. And worse...leaves no
room
for the fact that, like many if not most abusers, my ex was himself abused.
I have thoroughly removed the idea of hell...any notion of hell...as being
workable in the context of a theology that promotes a merciful caring
omnipotent god. The more I think on it, the more I find that heaven is
as
unworkable, if it is supposed to be some sort of endless streak of 'bliss'.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ў TLX v4.10 ў Forgive thy enemy. They HATE that!
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
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SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 31 Dec 96 07:33:35
EID:6545 219f3c20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df3
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c7f2264
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Michael and Richard were killing time yakking about Welcome to the state
of T:
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very
ML> unusual. Might it be that we're being set up for a
ML> grand Hardyesque jape?
RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
RS> jape . . .
MH> Oh ye ... er, we ... of little faith! :-)
RS> Is that a non-answer?
:) why not? that was a non-question!
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ў TLX v4.10 ў Never put off to tomorrow what you can avoid altogether.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
SEEN-BY: 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/2
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 31 Dec 96 22:58:26
EID:ef5d 219fb740
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df4
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32C743A2
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Katherine and Ronald were killing time yakking about creation...:
KW>It's only the pie that you need to worry about, Ronald. The
KW>cookies, cakes, and candy are all safe, and indeed necessary to placate
KW>some of our local goddesses.
RV> Sure Katherine, just the pie. How about i bring my own chocolate
RV> tibbits to feed the goddess. The way the various HolySmoke Ladies?
RV> have devise various ways of hidding their little tricks from the
RV> males here. It would have to be tested on a Marty of the rockhound
RV> fame, to test for the toxicology effects, first. Perhaps then, just
RV> perhaps, it may be safe to consume.
Kat, I'm starting to think Ron darling doesn't TRUST us....
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ў TLX v4.10 ў Try this. I haven't tested it, but I think it will work.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
SEEN-BY: 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/2
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Learn Your Lesson
|Date: 31 Dec 96 23:16:11
EID:0844 219fba00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df5
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32C743A1
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Al and Ronald were killing time yakking about Learn Your Lesson:
AS> LB> You choose your lessons, set your path. Failure to learn a lesson
AS> LB> means you will continue, through life after life after life until
you
AS> LB> get it right. Then onto the next lesson.
AS> But OTOH, suppose you are being PUNISHED for what you have done in a
past
AS> life. In other words, the lesson never "took" at all. Suppose one is
an
AS> adult and still does not have his bladder under control. He or she will
AS> have to be aware and learn it to master it, would they not?
RV> Understand, what she is saying. If you wish the term 'punished' see
RV> the word 'lesson' see the words 'you choose'. You pick your own
RV> punishment and the time to learn/understand the lesson. If it takes
RV> a 1000 reliveing to learn the lesson, then it will take a 1000.
:) Thanks, Ron. Understand, now, I was describing what my understanding
of
the idea of reincarnation *is*....it isn't a belief of mine. However, as
ideas regarding what comes after death, it seems at LEAST as workable as
the
idea of eternal bliss or torture. With similar ideas of there being an
eternity to work with, at least it denotes productivity and growth, rather
than an eternal consequence for a temporal act.
And I have to chuckle over how a lesson gets turned into the idea of a
"punishment". Sometimes my kids see it that way too...that redoing a paper
so it is legible is a "punishment", or rewashing the dishes so that they
will
be clean when they whipped through them too fast to do the job right. Those
aren't punishments...those are finishing the job. And I am very proud when
they realize that without having to be told, and take on the task of redoing
by their OWN initiative, simply because they have learned that the job needs
to be done properly, no matter HOW much effort it takes to do so.
And yes, for some, certain tasks are more difficult than others. It is very
easy for my oldest to write legibly, and she rarely has to do more minor
editing on her rough draft and she is finished. My second child often has
to
write and rewrite and re-rewrite before she gets it to a point where it
meets
her OWN standards for public consumption. OTOH, she has a natural grace
about
her that enables her to feel very comfortable in the world of physical movement
and picks up skills there without any thought, while her older sister has
to struggle hard to gain enough proficiency at them to feel proud. She joined
Marching Band this year and practices her steps ceaselessly to keep up with
her (and the band's) requirements. Neither is being "punished" for having
to
struggle in those areas where they are not 'naturally' talented.
RV> isn't a punishment giveing creator, between lives, you have your
RV> knowledge and understanding from the pass. .. plus the spiritual help
RV> of those with whom you you have share lives with in the pass and the
RV> future. To live in the mortal body is the class room of hard knocks,
RV> the death of the mortal body and the release of the spirt is the
RV> summer vacation. Any tutorial lessons that are needed, is given prior
RV> to the return of the mortal life.
*nod* I've heard similar analogies regarding the idea of reincarnation.
RV> The spirt/souls, like your Jesus, sometimes return as teachers, not
RV> for any lessons needed by them, but to aspire certain mortals in
RV> lessons that will mean more to the soul a spiritual lesson>. In other words, it's a subtle way of interference
RV> of the freewill that all are allowed. See lessons not learned after
RV> many lessons. See a path pointed too but not forced. See Al acting
RV> as a dart board for the HolySmoke Harpies. See Ron running like hell
RV> again. See question, why live at all.
hehhee
Actually, he's painted a target on his forehead, and is insisting that every
comment directed at him is a dart.
But then, he also sees 'lessons' as 'punishments'. ;)
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
---
ў TLX v4.10 ў It's "Being Hit on the Head" lessons in `ere.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
SEEN-BY: 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1
SEEN-BY: 280/169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278
SEEN-BY: 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92
SEEN-BY: 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2608/2
SEEN-BY: 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9
SEEN-BY: 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 109/601 104 17 7 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 31 Dec 96 23:41:56
EID:1ff6 219fbd20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 32ca1df6
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
DAVID and Carl were killing time yakking about Pray Contest:
CP> All right, so if you that you will recive it, and the
CP> athiests don't belive it, then they will accuse the thiests of lying!
CP> However, what we could do is the thiests pray for the athiests to get
CP> something, so that the athiests can't say that the thiests were lying!
Hey! There ya go! Pray just to cover your ass! Good idea! It's ok, God will
NEVER figure it out that that's your sole motive...good deal!
CP> Sounds good? By the way, are you a athiest or a thiest? If so, what
CP> denomonation?
He's an atheist...preferred denomination is $100.00 bills.
===========================================
Lynda Bustilloz
bustillo@ix.netcom.com or bustilloz@geocities.com
Catty's Castle at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8679
===========================================
... "Cogito, ergo Dei non est" (I think, therefore I am an atheist.)
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 31 Dec 96 13:12:00
EID:e7cf 219f6980
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 9d6c2a88
NC> Depends on what you mean by "evidence" my closed minded
NC> friend. There are historians outside of the Christian Church
NC> the wrote about Jesus and His death... None of them stated "He
NC> was the Christ" but they do give credance that Jesus did
NC> actually exist.
I'll bet you can't name one.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Scientific theories.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:03:24
EID:dc86 22223060
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c1b3
Hi Shelby,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Scientific Theories.")
SS> One human skull in the same geological strata as a
SS> dinosaur would falsify evolution, knucklehead.
That would do NO such thing, of course. It is not
possibly to "FALSIFY" something that has been declared to be
a FACT is it? Besides that evolutionists would simply talk
about, "Reworked specimen", or a "stratigraphic leak" or "it
fell in a crack" or simply a "tiny mystery" that will
doubtless be "explained" eventually anyway!
SS>> I am sick and tired of reading your ignorant ramblings
SS>> about a subject that you know nothing about.
LA> The truth of the matter might be more likely similar to
LA> the following;
LA> "This is a book with a disturbing message;
SS> What is this shit! Do you just pick out quotes at
SS> random to fill the body of your demented, fetid messages?
LA> it points to
LA> some unseemly cracks in the foundations. One is disturbed
LA> because what is said gives us the uneasy feeling that we
LA> knew it for a long time deep down but were never willing to
LA> admit this even to ourselves."
LA> "It is another one of those cold and uncompromising
LA> situations where the naked truth and human nature travel in
LA> different directions. The particular truth is simply that
LA> we have no reliable evidence as to evolutionary sequence of
LA> invertebrate phyla."
LA> "We do not know what group arose from what other group
LA> or whether, for instance, the transition from Protozoa
LA> occurred once, or twice, or many times. We have been
LA> telling our students for years not to accept any statement
LA> on its face value but to examine the evidence, and,
LA> therefore, it is rather a shock to discover that we have
LA> failed to follow our own sound advice."
LA> (John T. Bonner, reviewing a book by Prof. G.A. Kerkut,
LA> (evolutionist), entitled; "IMPLICATIONS OF EVOLUTION",
LA> in SCIENCE, Vol.133. March 17, 1961, p. 753: My Ref;
LA> EVOLUTION: The Incredible hoax, Homer Duncan, (1978), p.12)
SS> Now, tell me in your own words why evolutionary theory
SS> is not a valid scientific theory.
Because it cannot be falsified. Even some evolutionists
admit this, even if it was NOT told to you as you were being
indoctrinated in college! i.e.
"Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described,
one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations.
Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is
thus "outside of empirical science" but not necessarily
false."
"No one can think of ways in which to test it. Ideas,
either without basis or based on a few laboratory
experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems,
have attained currency far beyond their validity. They have
become part of an evolutionary dogma accepted by most of us
as part of our training."
(Paul Ehrlich (Professor of Biology, Stanford University)
and L.Charles Birch (Professor of Biology, University of
Sydney), "Evolutionary history and population biology".
Nature, vol.214, 22 April 1967, p.352.)
So much then for the LACK of science in evolutionism! It
is all OUTSIDE OF SCIENCE and it is no wonder that you get
so agitated and miserable when anyone challenges your per
mythology. It is obvious that deep down you know that it is
all "outside of science"!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Darrow Nonsense.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:04:06
EID:9ecc 22223080
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c20f
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Darrow Nonsense (b).")
RM> -=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Dan Ceppa <=-
LA> It seems highly likely that Darrow's public views that he
LA> put forward at that Trial, were completely consistent with
LA> the statement that has been attributed to him which said;
LA> "Clarence Darrow in his closing argument before the Scopes
LA> trial in an earlier generation said it is absolute bigotry
LA> to teach only one view of origins,"
LA> (Senator Bill Keith in his book entitled; SCOPES II: the
LA> Great Debate, (second printing 1983), p. 17)
RM> Who did Keith cite as a source for that statement?
It was a statement that he, Keith, said that he made to a
Committee of his State Legislature. As I read it, I gather
that this was an Educational Committee of the Louisiana
State Legislature.
RM> Creationists just love to quote each other.
I have yet to see you, or anyone else domonstrate that.
Can you? My experience is that they mostly quote from
leading evolutionary expert's claims and often find that
other evolutionists "go to water" even then!!
RM> It has already been demonstrated to you that Darrow did
RM> NOT say any such thing in the closing arguments at the
RM> Scopes trial (a transcript of the trial exists, and that
RM> statement ain't in it).
That is just too childish for words. It has NOT been
"demonstrated" at all. Anyone knows that
the Judge allowed a lot of evolutionary stuff to be included
in the transcript that was NOT stated at the trial itself.
Anyone knows that in many trials the Judge will issue an
order that this or that be "stricken from the record" for
what ever reason.
In other words the ABSENCE of this comment in the
transcript is certainly NO proof of whether Darrrow said it
or did not say it at the trial or even in a Press conference
or at some other relevant time!
RM> Darrow never said what you and other Creationists
RM> dishonestly repute that he said.
You have most certainly NOT shown that and nor has anyone
else, irrespective of whether the person trying to trace it
down ran into one particular "dead end" in his search.
RM> In fact he believed and said the opposite, as you have been
RM> shown.
RM> "In fact, there is no other theory to teach regarding
RM> the origin of the various animal species, including man'
RM> Darrow, Clarence. 1932. The Story of My Life. New York: Charles
RM> Scribner's Sons.
What Darrow said SEVEN years later hardly has anything to
do with what he might or might not have said at the Scopes
Trial in 1925 or at the time of the Scopes Trial. The facts
are that evolutionists themselves believe that ALL
scientific views SHOULD be taught anyway, and the courts
have considtently UPHELD that, but they just try to dodge
Creation Science by trying to label it as religion!
RM> Why do you keep trying to ressurect this lie?
It is a LIE to call it a lie when you have NOT
demonstrated any such thing!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:04:58
EID:5bf8 22223080
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c274
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Fakes Frauds and Scams.")
RM> -=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Dan Ceppa <=-
LA> Of course if that were the only similar
LA> fraud/fake/blunder that evolutionists have perpetrated it
LA> might have been forgivable, but that is only one of MANY
LA> such things wasn't it?
LA> Even today they claim that LUCY (or isn't it now, LUCIFER?)
LA> WALKED UPRIGHT for no better reason than they have found
LA> almost perfectly "humanlike" footprints in some strata which
LA> they date at about the same "age"!
RM> Uhhh, this is not correct, Laurie. I won't accuse you
RM> of lying this time - I honestly think you are just
RM> misinformed on this point.
Perhaps you should have saved that one up for a New Year's
resolution! :(
RM> There is significant evidence that Lucy walked upright
RM> that comes from other sources than those footprints.
Why are you "out of step" then with most evolutionary
experts, INCLUDING Richard Leakey himself who simply says;
"One can, however, begin with some firm facts. For
example, we can now say that the australopithecus definitely
walked upright, whereas a few years ago this was still a
matter of speculation."
(The Making of Manking, Richard E. Leakey, 1981, p. 71)
RM> There is a hole in every vertebrate's skull through
RM> which the spinal cord passes. In almost all mammals, it is
RM> found in the back of the skull. Man is the exception.
There is obviously something wrong with that statement
since, Johanson and White, assisted by Owen Lovejoy, whilst
claiming that "LUCY" and her fellow creatures walked upright
in the human manner, although they said they were
essentially ape-like from the neck up!
Dr. Duane Gish remarks that;
"They were thus portrayed as creatures with smallish
powerful human-like bodies topped with the heads of apes.
This has been more or less the view generally held by
evolutionary anthropologists concerning the
australopithicines for several decades."
"This concensus has become a fixture in textbooks and has
been widely disseminated in the scientific literature as
well as in all forms of mass media."
(Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record, Duane T.
Gish, 1985, p. 154.)
Obviously claims about a human like skull are nonsense
and claims about the "spinal attachment" seem unrealistic
indeed. However careful scientific studies of
Australopithecines supposedly YOUNGER than LUCY have shown
that these animals did NOT walk upright - at least NOT in
the human manner.
Since Lucy is supposedly OLDER then it follows that
she/he (LUCIFER) should have walked even LESS in the human
manner. No wonder Lord Solly Zuckerman writes;
"As I have already implied, students of fossil primates
have not been distinguished for caution when working
within the logical constaints of their subject. The
record is so astonishing that it is legitimate to ask
whether much science is yet to be found in this field
at all."
(Lord Solly Zuckerman, M.A., M.D., D.Sc. (anatomy) in
Beyond the Ivory Tower, Taplinger Pub. Co., New York,
1970, p.64; Ref: RQB #64)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:05:46
EID:5bf8 222230a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c2de
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Fakes Frauds and Scams.")
(continuing your Spinal attachment bit)
RM> Not as far forward as in modern humans, but much farther
RM> forward than in any ape, living or fossil.
RM> In addition, the hip joints also give good indication
RM> of the posture of the creature in question, and they also
RM> indicate that Lucy walked upright.
When it is apparent that there was not even enough of the
Pelvic bones found to determine whether Lucy/Lucifer was
male or female then that has to be sheer guesswork anyway!
No wonder another careful evolutionist says;
"In each case although initial studies suggest that
the fossils are similar to humans, or at the worst
intermediate between humans and African apes, study of
the complete evidence readily shows that the reality is
otherwise. These fossils clearly differ more from both
humans and African apes, than do these two living groups
from each other. The australopithecines are unique."....
"The various australopithecines are, indeed, more different
from both African apes and humans in most features than
these latter are from each other. Part of the basis of this
acceptance has been the fact that even opposing
investigators have found these large differences as they
too, used techniques and research designs that were less
biased by prior notions as to what the fossils might have
been"......
"In this case, also, most of the new studies have come from
laboratories independent of those representing individuals
who have found the fossils".
(Dr Charles E.Oxnard (formerly Professor of Anatomy and
Biological Sciences, University of Southern California,
now Professor of Anatomy and Human Biology, University
of Western Australia) in Fossils Teeth and Sex --- New
Perspectives on Human Evolution, University of Washington
Press, Seattle and London, 1987, p.227 - RQB #67)
[Ed.note: Oxnard's conclusions on australopithecines
have long been supported by the research of anatomist
Professor Lord Zuckerman (quoted in No.64). Creationists
have been criticised for using Zuckman's conclusion
because they predate the discovery of Australopithecus
afarensis (the famous "Lucy") in 1974. Oxnard's 1987
quotes (above) are a more than adequate response.]
There is therefore every chance that LUCY (LUCIFER) will
go the same way as Piltdown man, Nebraska man, Ramapithecus,
Peking Man, Java Man, Neanderthal man and all the rest.
They are all just part of the sickening evolutionary so-called
"self-correction" industry!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Allele frequency tripe.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:06:30
EID:5c90 222230c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c33f
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 22-Dec-1996, "Allele frequency.")
LA> Ah yes indeed, John. Your current fixation eh? It is
LA> "An historic conference in Chicago challenges the
LA> four-decade long dominance of the Modern Synthesis"
JM> More crap, Laurie? That conference took place ten years
JM> earlier than the discovery of allele frequency's importance.
JM> Since it was outdated, of what relevance is it? As usual
JM> with your posts it means NOTHING to evolution, but it's a
JM> perfect illustration of your intellectual bankruptcy.
Nice try John, but, as usual you failed miserable to
document your claim or show that microevolution can be
extrapolated to account for macroevolution!
The simple facts are that in 1995 we have Niles Eldredge
writing a whole book on the major division in the
evolutionary camp between the Ultradarwinians and the
Naturalists. In other words between the "big Jumpers" and
the "little jumpers"! The Inside front jacket summarises the
matter as follows;
"Scientific progress is often made by means of
impassioned debates between rival points of view. In
REINVENTING DARWIN Professor Niles Eldredge gives an
eye-witness account of such a debate. On one side are the
'ultradarwinians' - mainly theoretical geneticists - whose
ranks include Richard Dawkins..... and George C. Williams"
"On the other side is a more diverse group, the
self-styled 'naturalists' who focus on whole creatures
rather than genes and who think in terms of complex
interacting ecological processes; here we find Stephen Jay
Gould, and Eldredge himself."
("Reinventing Darwin: The Great Evolutionary Debate". Niles
Eldredge, (1995), IFC)
So which side are you on and why are you claiming victory
when you have no victory to claim? Alternatively do you
claim that both sides have the truth and you choose which
side you are on, depending on what you are trying to
refute?
As it happens, the Creationists themselves probably
support the Naturalists when they say that the
Ultradarwinians are WRONG and they would support the
Ultradarwinians when they say that the Naturalists are
wrong. In other words the true situation is that they are
probably BOTH WRONG, just as you are yourself!
The only real result of that debate must be that Creation
Science is the right answer and always was!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Animals Needed.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:07:12
EID:d231 222230e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c39a
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 22-Dec-1996, "Animals needed.")
LA> Perhaps you can tell me and others how large a Dinosaur
LA> baby is when it is first hatched from the egg? Then you
JM> Perhaps you can tell us which dinosaur? Or do you know any?
LA> Pick any one you like. After all paleontologists have
LA> found plenty of Dinosaur eggs haven't they?
JM> Yes they have as a matter of fact. One of the largest
JM> dinosaur nesting grounds in the world is a two hour drive
JM> from here. Data and samples from these digs have been sent
JM> all over the world and you can log-on to the internet any
JM> time you want and read the current information.
And, armed with all that fabulous information, your
answer to the question was. . . .
How large was the LARGEST baby dinosaur John? Didn't you
find out after all that?
JM> That's just one "dig" though... out of many.
Yes yes yes, so how large was the largest baby Dinosaur
John?
JM> But of course, you don't understand the concept of the Great
JM> Inland Sea or how it can be dated, and you don't understand
JM> anything at all about paleontology except what you've been
JM> spoon-fed by your masters so I never expected you to come up
JM> with a rational answer to my question.
I didn't notice, in all that, any answer to the question
John? Mind wandering a bit eh, or don't you like to ADMIT
the answer, would make you look foolish?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: A Man and a Cat.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:07:48
EID:703c 222230e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c3e3
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "A Man and a Cat.")
LA> Well I *DID* try to give you an "escape" from the only
DC> Laurie, your quotes do you no good. You have been shown
DC> to lie about even them. Nothing you post is taken seriously
DC> by any other than a dyed-in-the-wool fundy.
So long as you wish to send me your abusive messages, I
guess I will just do my best to send back some information
that you apparently so desperately need! What about this;
"The history of most fossil species includes two features
particularly inconsistent with gradualism:
1. STASIS. Most species exhibit no directional change during
their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record
looking much the same as when they disappear, morphological
change is usually limited and directionless.
2. SUDDEN APPEARANCE. In any local area, a species does not
arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors:
it appears all at once and "fully formed.""
("The Panda's Thumb", The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary
Change, S.J. Gould, (1987 reprint), p. 151)
If it wasn't for Gould's name at the bottom, that
statement would go perfectly in ANY Creation Science book.
Do you think that Gould might really be a
cripto-creationist, playing a dual game? His time-scales are
rather childish of course, but all in all he seems to be
making REAL progress.
By the time you take Gould, Patterson, Eldredge,
Goldschmidt, Velikovsky and Macbeth plus a few others, the
creationists have had the major part of their job done FOR
them! When are you going to wake up?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:08:30
EID:d373 22223100
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c43f
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Fakes Frauds and Scams.")
LA> Then clearly it should NOT have been rammed down the
LA> throats of Students UNTIL is was positively established as a
DC> The problem with, Lardhead, is that your masters have
DC> rammed something up in the orifice that holds the very pore
DC> that you try to speak out of but you attempt to write as
DC> well.
Perhaps you need to know the story of the Channeled
Scablands as told by dear old S.J. Gould. Here is some bits
of it that should be useful;
"Yet gradualist orthodoxy is so entrenched that the
authors of this pamphlet failed to note the inconsistency
between their own factual account and the stated theory of
their introduction."
"In oher essays of this section, I argue that
gradualism is a culturally conditioned prejudice, not a
fact of nature, and I make a plea for pluralism in concepts
of rate. Punctuational change is at least as important as
imperceptible accumulation. In this essay I tell a local,
geologic story. But it conveys the same message - that
dogmas play their worst role when they lead scientists to
reject beforehand a counterclaim that could be tested in
nature."
(The Panda's Thumb, "The Great Scablands Debate", S.J.
Gould, Penguin Books, 1987 reprint, p. 163)
"Just after World War I, Chicago geologist J Harlem Bretz
advanced an unorthodox hypothesis to account for this
unusual topography.... He argued that the channeled
scablands have been formed all at once by a single, gigantic
flood of glacial meltwater. This local catastrophe filled
the coulees, cut through hundreds of feet of loess and
basalt, and then receded in a matter of days."
".... The "establishment," as represented by the United
States Geological Survey, closed ranks in opposition. They had
nothing better to propose, and they did admit the peculiar
character of scabland topography. But they held firm to the
dogma that catastrophic causes must never be invoked so long as
any gradualist alternative existed. Instead of testing
Brets's flood on its on merits, they rejected it on general
principles."
(The Panda's Thumb, "The Great Scablands Debate", S.J.
Gould, Penguin Books, 1987 reprint, p. 164-5)
". . . .Bretz presented his hypothesis sixty years ago, but
has lived to enjoy his vindication . . . In 1969, he published
a forty-page paper summarizing a half century of controversy
about the channeled scablands of eastern Washington. He closed
with this statement:
"The International Association for Quaternary
Research held its 1965 meeting in the United
States. Among the many field excursions it
organized was one in the northern Rockies and
the Columbia Plateau in Washington. The party
. . . traversed the full length of the Grand
Coulee, part of the Quincy basin and much of
the Palouse-Snake scabland divide, and the
great flood gravel deposits in the Snake
Canyon. The writer, unable to attend, received
the next day a telegram of "greetings and
salutations" which closed with the sentence,
"We are now all catastrophists.""
(The Panda's Thumb, S.J. Gould, [evolutionist] (1987
reprint), p. 168)
Now what a triumph for catastrophism, (which Creationists
have always promoted and been abused by evolutionists for
150 years) and what a delightful rebuttal for mainline
evolutionism!
The Creationists have really had a number of triumphs
as well as having evolutionists ADMIT that
business about all those debates! It really has been a
triumphant thirty year period. No wonder we have such
screamings and yellings from evolutionists as they thrash
around desperately trying to deny the facts and the
evidence.
So what about Dan? What is your REAL problem?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Flat-earthers.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:09:02
EID:1a0f 22223120
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c484
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Flat-Earthers.")
DC> Bullshit, Appleton. You continue to lie like a cheap
DC> throw rug that the cat's shit on.
LA> The following without permission from Martin!
DC> Of course not. You have already taken everyone in the
DC> world's statements out of context. Why stop now, when
DC> you are on a roll of making yourself even more stupid
DC> than you could ever dream of being?
Perhaps you have a similar problem to that admitted by
Aldous Huxley? See what you think eh?
"I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning;
consequently assumed it had none, and was able without
difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption...
The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not
concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is
also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he
personally should not do as he wants to do...."
"For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the
philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of
liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to
the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom."
("Confessions of a Professed Atheist," Report: Perspectives
on the News, Vol. 3, June, 1966, p. 19, as found in, King of
Creation, Morris, p.82)
So is THAT your real problem Dan? Is your believe in
evolution nothing to do with science at all but all a
question of an "instrument of liberation"?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Velikovsky.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:09:44
EID:f8a3 22223120
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c4d9
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 25-Dec-1996, "Velikovsky.")
DC> Asimov was calling Velikovsky a well-polished charlatan
DC> predending to be a scientist.
LA> Garbage. He says NO such thing. We know, of course that
DC> Yes, your quotes are garbage, as you do not comprhend what
DC> you quoted.
Since I have the book where that came from and have read
much of it then you seem to be the one that is all at sea.
LA> Asimov and the evolutionists are the "well-polished
LA> charlatans". Do you find Velikovsky an "interesting writer"
DC> He's interesting, alright, especially as his science is
DC> humourous. After all, it has more to do as science fiction
DC> than it does to real science.
Funny thing is that I did not notice any attempt at
humour by Velikovsky in any of his books. Perhaps you have
some examples?
As for science fiction, it is true that he *IS* an
evolutionist and evolutionists are non-science generally
aren't they? However he is intelligent and honest enough to
see that the way evolution had been put forward by
evolutionists for so long it was a wonder it had not "fallen
over" long before!
LA> published", like Asimov has? And finally was it your "hope
LA> to read any others that he wrote"?
DC> Only if I was looking for a good laugh. So far, you
DC> provide enough of those. As such, I can hold off on
DC> reading any more books by Veliskovsky.
Quite obviously you did NOT read Velikovsky in the same
way that Asimov did. The delightful irony was that when
Asimov and others put on a special AAAS symposium for
Velikovsky, they got a thorough rebuff for their hopes of
proving him wrong. i.e.
In February 1974, at a symposium of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), in a
trying seven-hour debate, Velikovsky faced a critical panel
determined to prove him wrong. He delivered a vigorous,
cogent defence of his position. When he concluded, a large
audience of AAAS members and guests gave him a prolonged
standing ovation.
(When the Sky Rained Fire, Reader's Digest, February, 1976,
p.169)
So much then for the evolutionary establishment.
Velikovsky "did them for dinner". It is enough to make a
"horse laugh"!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Peculiar State of Mind.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 06:10:38
EID:e04e 22223140
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c54f
Hi Jim,
(Re: yours of 23-Dec-1996, "Peculiar state of mind.")
JS> You aren't? I am! God spoke it and _BANG_ it was there!
LA> Do you mean the whole Universe or just the Earth? Are you
LA> of the opinion that it has taken maybe 8 billion (and
LA> perhaps up to 18 billion) years to arrive at today's world?
JS> No. I believe the world is about 6,000 years old, that
JS> God spoke it into existance in 6 days and on the 7th day,
JS> rested from His labors, even as the Bible says. I know this
JS> is foolishness to many, but God said it (in the Bible> and
JS> that settles it for me.
LA> Did you know that even one of its main advocates (Alan
LA> Guth) uses the term "speculation squared" in respect to some
LA> aspects of it? Let me repeat what Hoyle has said;
LA> That is a most damning comment on Big Bangism, isn't it
LA> and since it was made by one who should know about such
LA> things then the current "scientific" Big Bang certainly
LA> looks dreadfully sick, don't you think?
JS> Thanks for the quote. I hope I have made myself clear as
JS> far as what I believe concerning 'big bang'.
Yes, thank you for that. You are a rather courageous and
long suffering person to put up with the corny tripe that
passes from messages from god-haters. Their position today
is becoming worse and worse scientifically and even in 1982
we find an admission to near chaos in their ranks. (that
was, you might remember just after that decade of open,
public, scientific debates where they have admitted that the
Creation Scientists almost always WON!). Evolutionist Niles
Eldridge admitted that;
"Superficially, it looks as if we know less now about how
evolution works than we did, say, even ten years ago. This
is because, as recently at a decade ago, there was something
approaching unanimity in the evolutionary ranks. Today,
though chaos is too strong a word, there is definitely
dissent in the ranks."
(The Monkey Business, Niles Eldredge, 1982, p. 52 as
quoted in; Creationists Answer their Critics, p. 238)
Regards,
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:31:49
EID:4873 219f9be0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 20efff06
On (26 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Marty Leipzig...
JS> Aw, c'mon. It's Christmas, for crying out loud, and my baby needs a
JS> new pair of shoes.
Someone steal the hubcaps off you trailer again? Looks like the
theives are at least as tacky as you are.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:32:14
EID:4873 219f9c00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 d617d713
On (26 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Marty Leipzig...
JS> There was no intent to defraud.
What do you call begging money for what you try to pass
off as music?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:32:37
EID:3460 219f9c00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 e90b9db0
On (28 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa...
ML> Damn, by that standard, Staal's a fucking tycoon.
DC> Marty, you mispelled 'buffoon'.
ML> That was next.
ML> Followed immediately thereafter by "poltroon".
All of which the "erudite" one would need to look up in his
dictionary. Too bad it's leveling his trailer.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Fundy death cult "prophecy"
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:32:58
EID:40be 219f9c00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 74087eef
On (28 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to Fredric Rice...
SQ> Go rent 'em. My wife bought me the Godfather Trilogy for Christmas,
SQ> where all three movies are weaved into one long story, with outtakes
SQ> being added back in.
I take it that it's edited differently then being 3 separate
movies. (BTW, I did see the Director's Cut of GF-III. Pretty
good movie, but, as the critics noted, Michael's makeup leaved
much to be desired.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:34:01
EID:3f67 219f9c40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 55e8c507
On (27 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson got back to Ronald Vass...
>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ> CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ> CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
RV> GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
RV> GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
CJ> GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
GARNISHES, GARNISHES! TOP HIM!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:34:31
EID:d2d0 219f9c40
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 afd5933c
On (28 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Why do I suddenly feel I'm at Ground Zero?
DC> "Set targetting computer on. Track for Al. Prepare to fire!"
DC> "Do we have a lock?"
DC> "On my mark, turn keys!"
DC> "Missals armed! Mussels in garlic! Missiles ready to fire!"
DC> "We have a launch. Now, time for lunch..."
AS> I think I better make a FAST last request...I wonder how quickly
AS> Cindy Crawford and Courtney Cox can be contacted, and how sympathetic
AS> they would be to a dying man's last request....?
That all depends. I'll ask them, as they are here in my bunker.
Any thing you would like to say to them?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:35:03
EID:1cd0 219f9c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 52c33ef2
On (26 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to Curtis Johnson...
ML> SM>>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
ML> JH>>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
ML> DC>>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML> ML>>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
ML> EV>>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML> ML>>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
ML> JH>>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML> ML>>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
ML> DC>>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML> ML>>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
ML> DC>>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML> ML>>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
ML> DR>>> GRACCHUS! GRACCHUS! REFORM HIM!
ML> DR>>> GRAFTER! GRAFTER! CON HIM!
ML> DR>>> GRAHAM! GRAHAM! CRACKER HIM!
ML> ML>> GRAVAMENS! GRAVAMENS! GRIPE HIM!
ML> ML>> GRAND JURY! GRAND JURY! INDICT HIM!
ML> CJ>> GEOLOGISTS! GEOLOGISTS! STONE HIM!
ML> GEOPHYSICISTS! GEOPHYSICISTS! BOUGER HIM!
CJ> GYNECOLOGISTS! GYNECOLOGISTS! EXAM--er, never mind.
ML> GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
GOYHIM! GOYHIM! CIRCUMCISE HIM!
BTW, I think your's would be better if you said, "PLANT HIM!"
ML> ... -1 Kelvin is just too cool.
ML> --- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
ML> * Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: heat
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:35:27
EID:e8a6 219f9c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 7faa252a
On (29 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson got back to Dan Ceppa...
CJ> CJ>> Uh, "ass" and "fool" and "lawyer" are in the Bible.
DC> That, and a bunch of euphamisms to what they call "nasty
DC> sexual deeds", as well as tales of insest, murder, etc. That
DC> leads me to conclude that Jesse never has really read the bible.
CJ> There's a lot in there that never gets quoted in sermons or
CJ> Sunday School lessons.
Gee, I wonder why.... }:-)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Heat [1/2]
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:35:50
EID:b130 219f9c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4f606e17
On (28 Dec 96) Andrew Masten got back to Rick Mcfarlane...
AM> Without belaboring the point, I concede that Laurie, in what is
AM> evidently misguided enthusiasm, has gone over the line. Its too
It's about time you noticed that "little" point.
AM> bad, because I think creationism can stand on its own merits
Now, do what no creationist has ever done: Provide the testable
theory of creationism.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:36:11
EID:9a31 219f9c80
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 f6aa5f77
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Why did Joseph send his son to the cross?
JS> He didn't.
DC> Stop contraticting yourself, Jimbo.
JS> His Father was God, not Joseph.
And the evidence is?
JS> (Luke 3:23 NIV) Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he
JS> began his ministry. He was the son, _so it was thought_, of Joseph,
JS> the son of Heli,
And, other than the circular reasoning, provide evidence that your
god screwed Mary and got her pregnant.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:36:58
EID:df9b 219f9c80
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 c0dff619
On (27 Dec 96) Michael Hardy got back to Dan Ceppa...
RS> Nor does Al remember being weaned . . . yet I bet he doesn't
RS> start grabbing breasts when looking for a snack . . .
MH> Yeah, I'm sure he has a much better cover story than that ... ;-)
DC> You seem pretty brassiere of yourself.
MH> So? You wanna make something of tit?
I noticed a halter in your typing of your reply. Perhaps you
need someone to underwire it and keep them separated. Cross
my heart!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:37:21
EID:f895 219f9ca0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 c28b709e
On (26 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Gwenny the Pooh...
Gt> Remember how you were recently saying that Wild is a wife abuser?
JS> Never said it.
Bull-fucking shit you didn't, you misogynistic bastard.
Gt> Remember how you claimed I had never told you that Wild was my SECOND
JS> Never said that either.
You lie out of both sides of your anus, aka your mouth, Staal.
Get back on your meds. You're a disgrace to each and every
species to know that evolution produced the likes of your sorry
bigotted ass.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:38:02
EID:50f1 219f9cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 ed2ffd6f
On (30 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to ROBERT CURRY...
RC> (whatever those might be) before you explain what you mean by
RC> the phrase. So just what are sponge cats? Hmmm?
SH> Gestapo interrogators usually have reasons for the questions they ask
SH> too.
Please show where torture is being applied to you to answer
the fucking question.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:38:22
EID:4c8b 219f9cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 6d633e48
On (30 Dec 96) Steve Hayes got back to David Worrell...
SH> It's one of those questions you need to answer for yourself, like "Do
SH> I need to blow my nose?"
From watching you evade any answer, the answer to your question
is a definite "Yes".
Go clean youself up and make yourself reasonably clean the
next time you try to throw your snot all over everyone.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:38:44
EID:7b44 219f9cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 02fe2077
On (27 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
as> And the universe itself existing.
RS> DC> Bought into John Brawley's "proof", I see.
RS> Why not? It's nearly incomprehensible to laymen, it sounds
RS> scientific, and it is impossible to prove. What more could a
RS> waffler want?
Al says, "No" and Brawley's saying that "no one understands
his theory". It's a match made in heaven!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Why God?
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:39:06
EID:0462 219f9ce0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a5c15a1e
On (28 Dec 96) John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Bought into John Brawley's "proof", I see.
JB> To date, no one has been able to return-describe to me the content of
JB> my "proof" (misuse of word; it's an hypothesis) with sufficient
JB> precision
Ever stop to think that that's because your "hypothesis" makes
no sense?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: wisdom
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:39:30
EID:022f 219f9ce0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 d09d380e
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift...
JS> Poor baby. Maybe if your arguments dealt with fact instead of some
JS> Fred Rice preconcieved bull shit, it might be different.
----------------> ^^^^^^^^^
Your charade is wearing thin, Jimbo. Just like your lack of meds.
Stop playing the idiot and come out of the closet and admit you
have been a troll for far too many years.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:40:07
EID:adaa 219f9d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4ece77ed
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift...
RS> Then again, this is exactly the sort of stuff that makes me think
RS> you're head isn't filled with brain cells. In fact...
JS> Whatever...my question is where do you dig up these ancient jposts?
Isn't it great, Jimbo? Your idiocy archived for all to see yet
another time. Told you that you should have taken your meds.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 31 Dec 96 03:05:33
EID:3c99 219f18a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c8842e
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1324fb36
PID: GED3 2.5
Sunday December 29 1996 13:05, ROBERT CURRY wrote to Al Schroeder:
RC>> And even things "totally at random" must from logical necessity
RC>> include patterns, too (your ignorant misconceptions
RC>> notwithstanding).
AS>> [They] MUST?
AS>> Interesting assertion, Rob.
Al has no idea what he's doing to himself, does he?
At least he didn't call you Bob, though.
RC> "Interesting" is always plus. And yes, they must.
I once thought Al was well educated. I see I was wrong.
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 01 Jan 97 08:57:13
EID:7dfc 22214720
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 faeeb891
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8A62437C
On (27 Dec 96) Michael Hardy got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> But, Mikey, it was the truly xian thing to say! After all, it
DC> is in the bible!
MH> Hm. But Al didn't do it. Is Al not a Real True Christian? :-)
Judging by all the "true xians" that waltz through here, as
soemone else noted: The only "true xian" is the one pointing
his finger at all the othe false "true xian" scum.
... You -NEED- this echo! It has become your crack cocain. - David Rice
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Archived HolySmoke
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:00:19
EID:eae4 22214800
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 79501119
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c5bf5e
On (28 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
MH> fuck fu <-------- 1.5 times, best I can do for precision. :-)
AS> Is that anything like kung fu? I hate to ask what you break boards
DC> Perhaps, but the exercises necessary for the task really brings
DC> smiles to the faces of the participants.
AS> And unlike, oh, say wrestling, when you throw them on the mat, it's
AS> the BEGINNING, not the end...
It's a sport that makes it fun to be the throwee to tha mat as well
as being the thrower at times.
... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago hit song of the Beast.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 31 Dec 96 21:19:42
EID:504a 219faa60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4347c671
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c883d6
On (30 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Sure. The accumulated knowledge of mankind. But perhaps some
AS> religious thinking is also part of that.
DC> No need for that, other than as a curiousity of our superstitious
DC> past.
AS> Not necessarily; if nothing else, thinking about such things helps.
That's what I said, Al.
AS> Hawking acknowledged a dept of Augustine in trying to think about
AS> things before time began, for instance.
Did Augustine show what happened before time?
... "Omnipresence: an infinity of places in which to hide." Don Martin
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 01 Jan 97 05:11:33
EID:4612 22212960
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a3150315
On (30 Dec 96) Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Not given because of what He does for us, or what He protects us
AS> from....including our love for Him.
DC> So, Al, why does your god condemn those that don't believe in him
DC> to rot in hell?
AS> I don't think He does. Again, there is the passage in Romans that
AS> indicates that for nonbelievers,
You can out think your god, yet allows that to happen?
AS> before God. The only significant improvement in Christianity I see
is
AS> the
AS> claiming of forgiveness even if you do screw up badly, if you are
Your dogma statse that if you screw up, just a bit, you go
to hell.
AS> sincere. Yes, it does say, "None come to the Father except by
AS> Me"(Jesus)
By your interpretation, I'm consigned to hell. Isn't that just
so nice of your god. Makes me want to go out and join his religion,
just to consign others to the same hell.
AS> that He is the final
AS> arbitrator of who has access to Him? It can be read either way.
Unfortunately, the dogma gets too far in the way. You see it,
but will not acknowledge that fact.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:02:16
EID:fe8c 22214840
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 ddba2f43
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet b50d8c02
On (27 Dec 96) Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa...
FR> Hardly. British English is what's used, not American English.
dc> De'Gaule. Even in Quebec, a 'smoked meat sandwich' is
dc> called 'un smoked meat sandwich'.
FR> And computer technology in form of hardware and software modules
FR> remain spoken largely in English where there were previously no
FR> domestic language which suited well.
I think that is because, for quite some time, the US was the
forefront of technology. The came up with the new inventions
and the rest of the world had to follow their newly coined
English expressions that described them.
FR> And I see that India -- with not quite one billion people now -- hold
FR> English as a second or third language; largely the whole population,
FR> that is. Each area of India has a primary language yet English is the
That was pretty much of my point on English being the "universal
language".
FR> And English is a constantly changing language with new words being
FR> added constantly. "Fundy" is a good one. }:-}
But of course! It is the raisin d'etre for this Echo!
... Steve Hayes's mindless dodging continues
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 31 Dec 96 21:33:59
EID:070e 219fac20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 697ea1e6
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c7f512
On (30 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Dan Ceppa...
NC> Greetings!
As if you meant that, pink boy.
DC> The tissue, on average, never makes it to maturity in at least
DC> 2/3's of the pregnancies, for reasons other than abortions. It's
DC> your god's way of providing grief to mothers that want to have
DC> a baby but for various reasons cannot carry to term.
NC> You sure seem to blame a lot of things on someone you don't
NC> believe in...
Provide evidence that the above stated facts are not based in
reality, the reality that you choose to ignore.
Yes, Nate. It's a "trick question". One that requires you to
use what you have not bothered to exercise in quite some time,
I'm afraid.
NC> I wonder if there are any other reasons for pregnancies not
NC> going full term other than a "mean" God playing tricks on us?
It's your god. You bring the fucker around for a beer and I'll
tell him so to his face. You do have an in with the bastard,
don't you?
NC> Maybe environment? How about mankind that is pouring toxic waste
NC> into the ground and our water supplies? How about mankind that
NC> is pouring toxic waste into the air we breath??
How about the evidence that your god exists? Got any? Until you
do, try another tack. As it is, you are in irons and sinking.
NC> Maybe it's not God at all?? But mankind wasting what God has given
NC> us...
And, the evidence for your god is:
... "Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 31 Dec 96 21:41:11
EID:070e 219fad20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 0c073ba8
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c80766
On (30 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Eat shit, asshole.
NC> Temper, Temper... mon capitaine!
You don't understand that you are an asshole of the very
first order. Typical.
NC> ""If it isn't a baby, then she's not Pregnant""
DC> You are a fucking idiot. ES&D
NC> Nasty stuff,
Go cry to your mommy and suck her tit.
NC> were little? Or has this problem come about after puberty?
Something you will never achieve, pink boy.
... "Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:12:50
EID:e729 22214980
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 c1c2996c
On (25 Dec 96) DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA...
DR> >>>DR> from a neo-Jewish Fundy (Messianic Jew-For-Jesus nut)
>DR> They are ignorant of Jewish history.
DC> Very ignorant, I'm sure. I've talked to one once, but
DC> him. I worked with people that were there. I don't
DC> think he had his family history explained in detail.
DR> it comes only from the TV (smile!). I thought that Jews
DR> in general were better educated than the rest of the
DR> population, both in world history and Jewish history.
They were, at one point. As it is, many US Jews have
relaxed their dogmas as for them to to have lost much
of their old traditions. Even the reading of the Torah
at a Bar Mitzvah is more of rote rather than a true
ability to read the Hebrew script.
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:19:22
EID:c8c0 22214a60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4185b25f
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 4010ea82
On (29 Dec 96) Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift...
JS> KS> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook, eh?
JS> KS> You really are an asshole.
JS> JS> You really get to be at a loss for words, don't you?
JS> rs> he's right, you racist asshole.
JS> Racist? In what manner?
RS> Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word "gook"
RS> as you have used it above?
JS> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.
You got your butt kicked all over the Echo the last time around
with that statement of yours, Jimbo. Are you really such a
glutton for punishment that you'll try to re-argue your lost
case?
... "A Fundy debunking himself will never notice it.": Hector
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:29:02
EID:ef8e 22214ba0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 50a0d53d
On (28 Dec 96) DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA...
>DC> A better one, in a very similar vein, is _Gumball
DR> ". . . lay down under a tree, and FUCK MY BRAINS OUT!"
DR> (Farrah Fawcett Majors)
Hmmm, I don't remember her in that movie...
DR> Or when the gas pump jockey asked the Mad Hungarian if
DR> he's cold, AFTER the latter warms his hands by putting
DR> them on his motorcycle's engine until they sizzle.
Then, there was the time he was speeding over a pass, hit
some ice, and became the world's first tree hugger!
... Brain wave flat, still mumbling "creationism"; It's Laurie Appleton!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:25:11
EID:89cf 22214b20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 8565d946
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c34236
On (27 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> found it far funnier than any of the Cannonball movies.
SQ> If memory serves, "The Cannonball Run" is a spoof/rip-off of "The
SQ> Gumball Rally," which, interestingly enough, I have never seen. :)
I think 'rip-off' is the operative term in this case.
DC> ... "I'm an agnostic shit for brains!" - Bill Wolff
SQ> "Jones" who tried to pull this one on me, quoting me as saying "I'm
an
SQ> atheist asshole" when I actually said "I'm an atheist, asshole." :)
Thing is, Billy did _not_ place the comma in his statement.
... "Do you even know what an ad hominem attack is, dumbfuck?" Becke Jones
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: language for humanity
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:46:08
EID:e193 22214dc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 b36dc506
On (28 Dec 96) ROBERT CURRY got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> unless I'm mis-remembering from _The Story of English_,
DC> English is nearing the universal language.
RC> Well, in *some* areas, it is certainly the default international
RC> language. For instance, pilots worldwide use English to communicate
RC> with air control.
Which, is my point.
RC> But even as (I think) the most widely spoken SECOND language, English
RC> is a long, LONG way from becoming anywhere near universal. It is
That is true. I was appraoching this in terms of international
communication, rather than any secondary intranational language.
However, I also noticed in this packet that India uses English
as second or third language for that effect.
DC> hard pressed to understand easily. Pigeon is one of them.
RC> Tennesseean another.
DC> However, its roots are from English.
RC> Possibly the same is true for my example as well.
Some of the Ozark people still speak the last vestiges of
Elizabethean English.
DC> Nope. It's the legacy that the British left the world from
DC> the time that the sun never set on its empire.
RC> A gross oversimplification. Even in India, most speak no English.
I don't think I saved the message, but I stand on the statement
that English is a very generally spoken 2nd or 3rd language in
India. Oops, still have it, and now saved under India.eng
It was by Frederic Rice. (I should have named it 'Inja.eng')
DC> After all, the French have adopted English words into their
RC> Anything else is an improvement on French.
Ce vrais.
RC> English definitely has the largest vocabulary of any current human
RC> language, which can contribute to it's difficulty. As of right
It is what also allwos it to quickly modify it's meanings to
fit the time/culture/events. Words have not only been dropped
or added to it, but often take 180 deg turn arounds in meaning.
'Awfull' is one that I remember off the top.
RC> now, humanity has no universal spoken language, nor is there any
RC> threat of one becoming common any time soon.
RC> Eventually . . . who knows?
There will eventually be a common language. It most likely
would be some form of English. And, you are right, it will
take a while for any single language be universal. Look at the
Quebecoise and their objections to all except French.
... HolySmoke, home of information you can use at work and play! Don Martin
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 01 Jan 97 04:10:40
EID:d016 22212140
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 29fc2077
On (30 Dec 96) Carl Pollock got back to DAVID WORRELL...
CP> By the way, are you a athiest or a thiest? If so, what denomonation?
I am the Spiritual Head of the Atheist Church of the One True God.
What brand of false thie[sic] are you?
Sincerely yours,
God Dan
BTW, learn how to spell. You are making Glodberg and I look
like spelling bee champions.
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda. -- Dan Ceppa
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 01 Jan 97 04:18:03
EID:c620 22212240
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 632de4c5
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c7f26a
On (30 Dec 96) Nate Cookson got back to Dan Ceppa...
DC> And the TRVTH is what? Iron axeheads floating? A global flood?
DC> Dead men walking? The sun standing still?
NC> The truth is something that has endured like the Bible has,
NC> should at least be considered.
I noticed you forgot to provide evidence to back up the
above that your book says is "true".
DC> Yes, it's a book of "truth", if you are brain dead.
NC> Well, to "each their own" I always say.... Most of the "brain
NC> dead" ones are those that have closed their minds.
Which is the only way you can believe in that book of lies you
call a bible.
... Quick! Close your mind! Something blasphemous might get in.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Off topic
|Date: 01 Jan 97 01:24:27
EID:27f8 22210b00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c9bce6
REPLY: 1:123/67 32c90743
PID: GED3 2.5
Tuesday December 31 1996 12:28, Shelby Sherman wrote to All:
SS> This is off topic, but for a good cause. Dan Ceppa is running
SS> a point off of my system and we are having a dupe problem.
He ain't the only one.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: APOLOGY TO JUDITH
|Date: 01 Jan 97 01:32:10
EID:e034 22210c00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c9bed1
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A614B9A
PID: GED3 2.5
Saturday December 28 1996 19:44, Judith Bandsma wrote to Al Schroeder:
JB> The person who has the biggest right to be pissed at you is Mike. I
JB> went back and looked at the date and time on it. You posted the
JB> description in detail BEFORE Mike had given me permission to use it
on
JB> my page.
When are those of us who don't make it a point to read Al's messages unless
they are directed to us going to get to see this, whatever it is?
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 01 Jan 97 01:52:16
EID:d10a 22210e80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32c9c44b
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c85ffb6
PID: GED3 2.5
Monday December 30 1996 21:49, Mimi Milstein wrote to Ronald Vass:
RV>> As far as any in the modem land knows, his wife, may have
RV>> taken a turn for the worst and he's pissed off at his god.
RV>> Many things in life can change, and do. How that change is
RV>> taken in life , is another point all
RV>> together. What Mike 'The Pea Brain' believes and what
RV>> happens to 'pea brain', in the long run, only time will
RV>> tell.
MM> You really are a vicious jerk, aren't your?
The scenario Ronald describes has occurred right here in this very echo
in the past. I forget the guy's name, but he came in as a fundy. His wife
suffered from some condition (in fact, I seem to remember it being MS, the
same as Michael's wife has). He left for a few months, then came back markedly
less sure about the entire God deal. His loss of belief was caused, in large
part, by his wife taking a turn for the worse. He later regained his belief,
left, and hasn't been back since.
While Ronald may have been overly blunt, I am certainly not in a position
to complain about that. :)
--- QuantumEdit 6.66
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Domino
|To: Chris Brown
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 31 Dec 96 01:57:33
EID:9da6 219f0f20
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2c8b9700
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 32c5b824
PID: timEd-B11
Chris, having seen Crucifixia during his little streak, remarked:
C6> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY ADDRESSES OF
C6> GOOD WiCCA/SATANiC STORES iN OR AROUND THE TORONTO AREA. OR, iF iS
C6> WiCCAN OR SATANiC AND WOULD LiKE TO CHAT, POST ME BACK......K?
CB> This has to be a joke.. Satan and Wicca have nothing to do
CB> with each other..
Notice his 3l33t typing style.
Abreq ad Hbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 31 Dec 96 01:59:56
EID:f2e8 219f0f60
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2c8b9701
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 cb031692
PID: timEd-B11
Dan, having seen Crucifixia during his little streak, remarked:
C6> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY ADDRESSES OF
DC> Save your money and buy a clue to figure out where your
DC> FUCKING CAPS LOCK key is located.
That's not the only clue he needs.
Abreq ad Hbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 30 Dec 96 09:05:01
EID:b037 219e48a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 04c1c719
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c351b7
On (27 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to ROBERT CURRY...
SQ> mind, such as myself, you, "The Rice Brothers" ("I want the Rosato
SQ> brothers DEAD!"),
Shouldn't that be the 'Risotto Brothers'?
... ...Dances with Wolves--stomp *YIPE* grrrrrrrrrrr....
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 30 Dec 96 09:14:17
EID:b207 219e49c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 4a3f5033
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 b68ee24c
On (28 Dec 96) John Brawley got back to ROBERT CURRY...
JB> _My_ actual position is that Zero is _not_ a number. (Here I'm
JB> Imho, "zero" is either a place-holder (indicating "lack of ones" or
JB> "lack of tens" etc.) or the centerpoint of the number line, but not
JB> itself a "number."
Without Zero, the number line does not work. It is as real as
1 or -1. After all, the addition of those two is Zero.
... 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago hit song of the Beast.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 30 Dec 96 09:57:07
EID:c845 219e4f20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 5e6eda07
On (24 Dec 96) DAVID RICE got back to STEVE QUARRELLA...
DR> became a raving fundamentalist Creationist (multi-
DR> redundant), and died in the saving arms of Jesus.
Well, it's all over now. The Rapture has occurred and took
only Carl Sagan to heaven. The fundys can all go home now,
as they weren't choosen because they were idiots.
... In memorium. Dr. Carl Sagan, 1934-1996. "He touched billlyuns."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:02:15
EID:0619 219e5040
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 310df277
On (28 Dec 96) Damien Wellman got back to Styx Allum...
SA> 15th year of my BBS. I feel like a grandfather to the
SA> modem community.
He even looks that old.
DW> sure why it's one of the busiest echos around, nor how we manage to
DW> talk about so many things not related to religion in an echo that's
DW> nominally a religion debate echo... :)
It's because the fundys have a bad habit of trying to stick their
noses into everything. As such, most everthing is on topic
in one form or another. The only thing off topic is discussing
Styx and his drums.
... The Christian god needs a counselor, not worshippers.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Cartoon
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:09:02
EID:0201 219e5120
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 f4f893cb
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32c36e4f
On (27 Dec 96) Chris Green got back to Martin Goldberg...
CG> CG>> Just finished doing this cartoon; there's a big sign next to
CG> CG>> a phonebox which says, "Dial G.O.D. for God!"
CG> MG>> I don't get it.
CG> That's OK. You don't have to.
MG> I am beginning to think you a bigger moron than I thought at first.
CG> Just for you, just this once I shall explain: :-)
You'll have too, as you didn't make any sense in your first message
on the cartoon.
CG> has a telephone and sometimes a directory in it; you put coins in the
CG> phone and you can telephone someone).
How long did it take you to figure that one out? Years of
dedicated study and a university?
CG> Inside the phone box is an erectile crocodilian, who is in the process
CG> of dialling through to God, using the letters G.O.D.
That's strange, you never mentioned that the first time around.
CG> Inside the phone box, the erectile crocodile has been assaulted by an
CG> arm waving a trident.
What does sex have to do with the cartoon?
CG> crocodile tried to connect to G.O.D. he got D.E.V.I.L. instead.
That's humourous. Almost as funny as a rubber crutch.
CG> Whether you understand the humour or not, does not matter; that was
CG> what was meant by the above statement.
Which you forgot to lay the groundwork for in your original
message.
CG> As to moronity? Why thank you, such a compliment! :-)
You earned it, the old fashioned way: You are one.
... "You're a fucking idiot who couldn't buy a clue if they were free!"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:17:41
EID:7c73 219e5220
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 e46d6286
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60bd
On (29 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Gwenny the Pooh...
RS> NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
RS> GtP> Steak stops a beating heart.
RS> Thought stops a Fundy brain.
Door stops: Fundy brains.
... "Oh, blather," said Pooh, seeing another new fundy in the 'Smoke.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:19:18
EID:0aac 219e5260
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 78dc5010
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32c6f8af
On (29 Dec 96) Sue Alexander got back to Nate Cookson...
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
SA> Not for the first 8 weeks. Besides, miscarraige also stops a
SA> beating heart (after the first 8 weeks)...why not campaign against
SA> that?
He can't. His god makes them happen. Can't have his god in
the slammer for being a murderer, can he?
... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: christian doctrine d
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:25:44
EID:0e9a 219e5320
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 97ae68a3
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32c54432
On (28 Dec 96) Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa...
SQ> Salue, Dan!
Saltine, Steve!
DC> ... An atheist with a Bible is a fundie's worst nightmare!
SQ> I'd rather use my trust ol' Book of Mormon.
Going after taglines betrays you. Just where have you got
those golden plates stored? }:-)
Waiting for the gold market to get higher?
... ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: ERROR: <*WHACK*> C:\>_
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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SEEN-BY: 124/2342 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/2021 167/166
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:29:04
EID:835d 219e53a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 0125ed21
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c6c60b3
On (29 Dec 96) Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa...
RS> RS> fucking communicated to you right fucking here.
RS> Your turn, Bozo.
RS> DC> Shouldn't that have been, "Your turn, you fucking Bozo"?
RS> Well, not if I want to win Mr. Moderation at the convention . . .
That's the Bunnies and Lights Convention. They will be in town
the same week.
DC> Just checking to see if a "Puritanity Block" wasn't in
RS> I actually had the upgrade, , installed. No
RS> more worries about Earth Quakes for my board . . .
Judith may have something to say about that. Meanwhile, don't
make a mistake and wander into the wrong convention area. The
other group would cower like bunnies.
... Do creationists really believe that we'll believe their lies?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 30 Dec 96 10:51:55
EID:fa99 219e5660
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 af5788cf
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32c4aed7
On (28 Dec 96) Gerry Danen got back to Gwenny the Pooh...
GD> the same GP>language and has the same view of things as they do. We
GD> are VERY sheltered
GD> Isn't this an Enlish-language echo?
Nope, it's a religion-debunking echo. BTW, what's "Enlish"?
GD> No, I don't mean to suggest that everyone celebrates Christmas, just
GD> that those who do, know its meaning.
The funny thing is that most all in here do know of xmas and that's
why they reject it.
... Go ahead... tell is "But they weren't *Real*, *True* *Christians!*"
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 30 Dec 96 11:41:26
EID:23ea 219e5d20
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 6acf8d88
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 9ebdcb52
On (27 Dec 96) John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa...
JB> I'm not. I don't claim it exists. I claim a) I _think_ it exists,
DC> I think the Tooth Fairy exists.
JB> I strongly doubt that.
You can say you think something exists and I can't? How
cavalier of you, John.
JB> You would not 'prevaricate,' would you now?
I didn't, John. However, the subtlety of my statement was
lost on you.
... "Omnipresence: an infinity of places in which to hide." Don Martin
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 30 Dec 96 11:44:32
EID:23ea 219e5d80
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 a183b389
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 9ebdcb52
On (27 Dec 96) John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa...
JB> I doubt I'll get the Quantum God Hypothesis done before I die, let
JB> alone the tooth fairy....
DC> That's 'Tooth Fairy', John. It deserves the same respect for
DC> it's existance as your quantum god.
JB> (*grin*) My apologies to your... uh... "Tooth Fairy."
I wish I could say the same for your, uh, err, "Quantum God".
At least I have evidence that shows that the Tooth Fairy
existed in my childhood.
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda. -- Dan Ceppa
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: feed
|Date: 30 Dec 96 11:51:22
EID:9c18 219e5e60
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 bea15e99
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32c6eba1
On (29 Dec 96) David Worrell got back to Judith Bandsma...
DW> I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that the Pie
DW> was all they had to worry about. Was she lying, or am I somehow
DW> special? :)
She just wants to make sure that you don't wander too far from
a restroom. More than three feet will be too much!
... "I'm an agnostic shit for brains!" - Bill Wolff
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Holiday Wishes:
|Date: 30 Dec 96 16:43:44
EID:3834 219e8560
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 d0652c5b
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c3c73d
On (27 Dec 96) Gwenny the Pooh got back to Richard Smith...
RS> naked. Where's my presents? Happy and safe holidays to you
RS> and yours.
Gt> Works for me. You bring the Egg Nog I'll bring the Capt Morgan.
Can I bring Morgan Fairchild?
... The Catholic priesthood: a dating service for pedophiles.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: I'm back to work today
|Date: 30 Dec 96 17:05:36
EID:149f 219e88a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 56857b1d
REPLY: 2:250/210.0 32c4ffe0
On (28 Dec 96) Chris Green got back to All...
CG> My qualifications are, as is; my life is, as is; whether you wish to
CG> believe or disbelieve it, I really couldn't give a damn!
So, what the fuck are you posting here for? Just to waste
bit-space?
CG> 'Postulation One', should have reached you all by now.
From you, Pustulation 1.
CG> Read you, when I read you,
Gee, did you learn that from MENSA? How handy to look like the
pompous ass that you are.
... "Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum."
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Another Quantum Baitshop Franchise! (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: All
|Sub: Off topic
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:28:05
EID:e260 219f6380
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c90743
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
This is off topic, but for a good cause. Dan Ceppa is running
a point off of my system and we are having a dupe problem.
Anyone out there in HOLYSMOKE land running Intermail/Front Door,
Squish and Golded?
It looks like when I delete messages in Golded, Squish will rescan
the remaining messages as new.
Anyone?
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:30:32
EID:e3e3 219f63c0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c9079a
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 b50d35d8
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
27 Dec 96 22:30, quoting Jim Staal to Shelby Sherman:
JS> Yeah, but not only out of context, but not even in the same realm.
What is out of context, oh clueless one? I quoted the verse directly
from the bible.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:31:46
EID:9ea9 219f63e0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32c907f7
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 b3240266
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
27 Dec 96 22:31, quoting Jim Staal to Shelby Sherman:
SS>> Satan doesn't exist either, Moron.
JS> Your opinion.
It's not an opinion, it is the default state. Do you have any
evidence that the god Satan exists?
JS> Is it necessary to be abusive just because we hold
JS> different opinions? I am no moron.
Since opinions count, it is my opinion that you are a moron.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 29 Dec 96 18:41:38
EID:b0c7 219d9520
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c90324
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 d612dbb7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Chris Green <=-
DC> animals in the last 100 yrs or so that is beginning to make
DC> the Dinosaur Extinction pale in comparison.
CG> How do you think that nature will compensate for this population
CG> imbalance?
DC> Your the MESA member. You figure it out.
You missed the 'N' Dan, your barb lost some of its bite. :-)
'Your' is part of the possessive 'you' from the verb 'to be'.
What you required is 'you are' which is shortened to 'you're'.
Not a satisfactory attempt at sarcasm Dan. Zero out of ten.
OK. Well there's the examples of rats (warfare), lemmings (suicide),
larger populations are also vulnerable to disease because there is
insufficient resources to care for everyone, this means that those of
the population who are poor or seen to be less viable receive less care,
this in turns introduces disease into the population as a whole, through
neglect of the vulnerable.
So, that is warfare, suicide and disease (mental and physical).
Then there is lack of food, lack of water, and lack of general
resources; this returns to control and management of said; which
ultimately will mean warfare.
Starvation will increase likelihood of disease.
As population increases and nutrition and general well-being decreases
so there will be a general trend towards increasing mental disturbance
and insanity - with an increasing suicide rate (trend noticeable in some
of the larger US cities, study being done by UCLA I believe currently).
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: All
|Sub: demo
|Date: 29 Dec 96 22:54:46
EID:5dce 219db6c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c90329
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
Well if anyone did answer either 'text' or 'coward', then you have more
than adequately proved to my satisfaction that some Americans need to
sue their Government for a refund on their educations!
You should, like Ronald Vass, have taken heed of the "TRAWLER WARNING".
Concerning Doctors, or any other qualifications, these only have
relavence when used in relation to the field of expertise, thus, I would
listen attentively to Mr Goldberg if he was a Doctor of Divinity; but a
Doctor of Immunology has little relavence in this area of debate, unless
it is to open the 'can of worms' called 'creation/evolution'. I would
presume that he has some knowledge of evolutionary processes.
Intelligence does not preclude stupidity.
Intelligence does not confer perfection.
As to being told off for calling Mr Goldberg an idiot; the reason being
given that I can't call him an idiot because he's a Doctor - I can think
of no polite retort.
The only academic posts that I rate as a worthwhile indicator of an
individual's value, are Professorships, which are confered by that
person's peers. It being logical to assume that people in the same line
of work know who is worthy.
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: text
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:20:12
EID:f7ec 219eb280
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c9032a
REPLY: 1:3603/210 105d114a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting ROBERT CURRY to Chris Green <=-
CG> IQ: 174, tested by MENSA, an organisation I do not belong to,
CG> since I found that it was full of 'social dysfunctionals'.
RC>
RC> It was very kind of you to avoid exacerbating the problem by joining.
You're developing an 'English' sense of humour Robert! Well done, I
say, old chap!
Chris
... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 30 Dec 96 22:31:16
EID:aae2 219eb3e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c9032b
REPLY: 1:3603/210 105d1149
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting ROBERT CURRY to Chris Green <=-
CG> Incidentally, those people claiming to be atheists, are
CG> claiming, by their definition of themselves, not to believe
CG> in a single God, but must believe in multiple gods.
RC>
RC> Where did you ever get such a bizarre notion? Have the rabid animals
RC> already migrated across the Chunnel to bite you?
Collins New English Dictionary.
Have subsequently, gone through the Greater Oxford English Dictionary,
and broadly agree with the atheist definition in 3 of the 4 cases.
Case 4 however, states that the generally accepted definition of an
atheist is someone who does not believe in a 'single God', this is the
definition which was given in the Collins.
Chris
... I am Hamlet of Borg. Prepare to be... or not to be.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: All
|Sub: post yule be sorry!
|Date: 31 Dec 96 00:25:52
EID:0319 219f0320
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c9032c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
Well, the end of the ghastly Yule period has happened, the relatives
that one does not see from one year's end to the next have gone. My
bungalow is slowly becoming mine again, though there are two elderly
relatives still hanging on for the New Year.
The depression is starting to lift and the sensation of being invaded is
going.
It is a paradox, all these people come round, with the specific desire
of making the holiday season joyous, and all they manage to do is to
create open-warfare, in the name of 'cheering me up'.
Meanwhile I have to be the quiet and 'happy' host putting up with all
these people, never losing my temper.
The above is by way of explanation - APOLOGIES - I should not take my
temper out on strangers in the leisure networks.
Also got good news, in that my hospital appointment is for the first
week in January, so the nerve (trigeminal) in the side of my head will
be sorted out.
My sense of humour should be back shortly thereafter.
Chris
... Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Chris Brown
|Sub: God *is* dead.
|Date: 31 Dec 96 00:35:10
EID:8599 219f0460
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c9032d
REPLY: 1:163/125.0 32c1e2bd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Chris Brown to All <=-
CB> In order for matter to form, there must be anti-matter somewhere else.
CB> It was first discovered that in an almost complete vacuum,
CB> anti-electrons started to form. So, if anti-electrons were formed, then
CB> in a complete vacuum, the rest of the atom must be there, too.. (this
CB> might not make much sense but this is my best explanation) which means
CB> that as soon as you have a complete vacuum, you can create anti-matter,
CB> thus creating matter somewhere else. Which means that if nothing
CB> existed in a total vacuum before the universe was created, then the
CB> universe must have created itself. Therefore completely proving god
as
CB> a ancient literary hoax and nothing more.
Have a look at 'Wrinkles in Time' by George Smoot, which covers this and
other tests at CERNE.
Chris
... Baseball in the Bible??? Gen 1.1 In the Big Inning...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Chris Green
|To: All
|Sub: short-term memory
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:19:34
EID:5762 219f9a60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c966f5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
Noted that some of you, find that I repeat myself.
Suggest you have a chat with a neurologist on the effects that
short-term memory damage has on an individual.
Whereas you all accumulate acres of useless data each day.
I don't.
Everyday is new and wonderful, and the ideas that come out of it, are
brand new for that time - I am unaware of thinking them before.
I am not a multi-millionaire, nor can I afford to install a 'Cray'
computer system in my bungalow, to replace the bio-electrical memory of
my damaged brain.
Therefore, I have a list of things on my wall that I save, I check this
list against whatever I am working on, if the subject is not mentioned
on the list, then it is not saved.
If I come over as brusk and aggressive, so be it, this 'attitude' allows
me to operate in the 'able-bodied world'.
Chris
... Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: martinez [4/4]
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:19:36
EID:5089 219f9a60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c966f6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72b94852
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Chris Green <=-
MG> Almost any drug that we take has effect on us other than those that
MG> are it's specific target. When you give a protease inhibitor it will
MG> act in a non specific manner inhibiting all proteases that have the
MG> specificty that it inhibits.
Yes, read the paper; would like to read the final paper at the end of
the test period, say around 2005 - shall make a note of it.
Chris
... Disability Information Group: Integration through Technology
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Official Countdown
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:19:38
EID:3e58 219f9a60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c966f7
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A5F2A4C
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Chris Green <=-
SA> year after, and possibly 2002. Why? Because of terrorist fundy
SA> nutballs who want to FORCE the end of the world and may do so by
CG> very close watch on Sadam Hussein, he isn't a gentleman who forgets
a
CG> slight; and he certainly won't forget the Kuwait affair.
JB> Sue, I'm pretty sure, was talking about the home-grown CHRISTIAN
JB> fundamentalists who firmly believe that the year 2000 is the end of
JB> the world and who now have the technology and positions to see that
it
JB> comes about when Jesus doesn't come riding in on a white charger
JB> hurling nukes on his own.
What proportion of the US population are Christian?
What proportion of Christians are militant?
I find it hard to believe that the majority of the population is made up
of militant Christians?
Or is the majority of the population, like other populations -
apathetic, insular, 'as long as nobody bothers us, then we won't bother
them'?
Got the same happening over here now, the Conservatives are set to fight
another 'dirty' election, knowing full-well that this will induce less
people to bother voting; knowing too that a smaller turnout will favour
them. We will again, have a Right Wing Christian Government. You've
just got Bill Clinton - wait until you get the Christians in power...:-)
JB> Those who believe that it is 'god's will' may very well try to make
JB> what they see in Daniel and Revelation self-fulfilling prophecies.
Don't forget Nostradamaus and Allah. :-)
Chris
... ... The brain you have reached is not in service at this time.
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|From: Chris Green
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: teachers
|Date: 31 Dec 96 19:19:42
EID:35ec 219f9a60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 2:250/210.0 32c966fa
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 0fd5d194
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 19026
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to Curtis Johnson <=-
BW> On (25 Dec 96) Curtis Johnson wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW> What can I say Curtis? I have to deal with these fools on a daily
BW> level. They can't tell the difference between an agnostic and a
BW> theist. They can't comprehend what they read and they frequently
BW> quote out of context. I have tried to teach them something new
BW> (alternative views) for over 3 years now and they haven't learned a
BW> damn thing during all of this time.
BW> Of course I am hard on them. I try to shame and embarrass them into
BW> learning for once in their life. Although they just don't seem to
BW> care. Or better yet, they are too stupid to care. So what would you
BW> say to students who hasn't learned anything new in over three years?
BW> So I feel I am perfectly justified in my actions.
If all the 'students' failed to learn, I'd change the teacher!
Chris
... ******WARNING*******TRAWLER OPERATING******WARNING*******
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Heat
|Date: 31 Dec 96 12:40:26
EID:27eb 219f6500
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32cb17b8
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
JJ> In my experience, most atheists have stared into the abyss of
JJ> immortality and come back with a brave defiance. Such folks have no
JJ> reason -- and indeed their insight would direct them elsewhere -- to
JJ> attack and ridicule believers. The gathering of heathens here to bash
JJ> believers evidences deep-rooted insecurity, a profound fear that there
JJ> may indeed be a god who needs therefore to be battled.
Most atheists I know are rather sensitive to religious rhetoric.
People have been subjected to everything from ostracism to torture
for non-conformity with religious traditions. Every person who
publicly debates this, who voices their scepticism, who challenges
religionists, insures, a little bit, that someday all will be free of
religious persecution.
I think you can imagine what happens when religious groups are given
free reign, when they become accountable to nobody but themselves. Or
do you think that religions as a whole have learned restraint?
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 27 Dec 96 12:00:09
EID:fedb 219b6000
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32cb17b9
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
BF> No, it's because of copulation. Population increases because the
BF> birth rate exceeds the death rate. It's a mathematical thing. Look:
NC> I think the laugh is on you, ....
NC> Is it the "mathematical thing" that does the "copulation" or is
NC> the human race!!?
NC> So.. although your math is correct.... It's still mankind that
NC> has caused the problem, ins't it...
Please learn how to read before responding to anything I write.
You're obviously the product of a very shakey educational system, and
the only hope you have is to re-educate yourself.
And telling people not to copulate is like telling dogs not to shit.
It's gonna happen, whether you approve or not.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 30 Dec 96 12:13:42
EID:fe37 219e61a0
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32cb17ba
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
NC> A guess on your part.... The FACT remains it is one of the most
NC> published books in the history of mankind. And one of the MOST
NC> READ.
Hustler is a big seller, too. Does that lend credence to it?
Popularity has a poor claim on truth.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Bill Forseth
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 30 Dec 96 12:13:49
EID:0c49 219e61a0
MSGID: 1:282/76.0 32cb17bb
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7538
BF> Evidence is a -symptom- of existence. Those things that exhibit no
BF> symptoms of existence are, sooner or later, forgotten. Just like your
BF> god will someday be forgotten, and a new one will take its place.
BF> Not that it wasn't a nice idea, just that the son-of-a-bitch forgot
BF> to show up.
NC> Yep! the Ol' "If a tree falls in the Forest and no one see's
NC> it" "Existence" isn't dependent on man's ability to remember
NC> it, science is now aware of many things that man had no
NC> ability to understand or have evidence of. But yet it still
NC> existed, things exist not because we can prove they exist.. they
NC> exist becasue they are there.
If you read the above without your desire for everlasting life, etc.,
you'll see that it's simply common sense. If evidence weren't an
important factor in determining the truth or falsehood of something,
I'd demand, INSIST in fact, that you pay me that million dollars you
owe me.
NC> Many have made the quote you have about God being forgotten and
NC> yet He's still around....
You should probably study anthroplogy before you go slinging around
the One True God claim, Nate. There were One True Gods before yours,
and there will be One True Gods after.
NC> Voltaire the noted French skeptic and infidel who died in 1778,
NC> predicted that in 100 years from his time Christianity would be swept
NC> from existence and passed into history. But what happened?? 50
NC> years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his house
NC> and used his printing press to produce 1000's of Bibles to be
NC> distributed worldwide!
NC> Voltarie has passed away (just as you will) into history... BUT NOT
NC> the Bible...
NC> Your comment is as foolish as Voltarie's ....
I don't give a fuck what you think about me, and your weak attempt at
belittling the intelligence of a dead person only reflects the
intellectual stagnation that your religion has forced on you. Use
your goddamn brain, read a book, take a course. Do something, but
don't attempt to downplay others who aren't as tight-assed as you. It
only makes statements like the above pathetic.
--- FastEcho v1.45a
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|From: Christopher Baker
|To: Fane
|Sub: Re: Your Homepages
|Date: 01 Jan 97 01:35:37
EID:dba8 22210c60
> Hey people. If you have a HolySmoke related Internet web page, could
you
> please post the address here? I'd be interested to know and so would
> others probably. Hmm, maybe they could be compiled into a text file?...
http://ddi.digital.net/~cbaker84/christop.html
QOFM.
Chris
--- DB B2300sl/001027
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: David Rice
|Sub: 'bible prophesy'
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:04
EID:7e18 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21128810
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 07:40pm, RICHARD SMITH wrote to DAVID RICE:
-=>> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Rice <=-
>>DR> It has been over two weeks since I posted the 23-message
>>DR> series that utterly refuted the myth that there are valid
JB>> Uh...I never saw it.
DR>> Hummm. I wonder if they were deleted somewhere along the
DR>> way.
RS> Now that it is mentioned, I don't recall seeing it either.
RS> Please wait until the middle of the month to repost it, I
RS> want to get a copy this time . . .
I caught it and saved it.
Perhaps next time you could post it a third at a time?
It's possible that some systems might be set up to kill extremely
long multi-part posts.
... I have no keyboard, and I must click-clack!
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:05
EID:fd1d 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21128887
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
};>> Curtis Johnson wrote in a message to Dan Ceppa <:(
CJ>>> RS>> Quid, Me Anxius Sum?
CJ>>> little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but it looks
CJ>>> like:
CJ>>> "What, me worry?"
DC>> That was my guess, too! Then again, I'm MAD!
CJ>> Styx! Somebody alfred my message!
RS> You have nothing to Gainnes by such cheap tactics . . .
Yes, I do! I'm CRACKED!
... The world's lucky I'm such a nice guy.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:06
EID:48e8 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 211288fe
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
>>> EM> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
>>> RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
>>> CJ> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
>> RV> GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
>> RV> GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
CJ>> GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
RV> GROMMET! GROMMET! INSULATE HIM!
GLEEPS! GLEEPS! ZYRZY HIM!
... Go figure? But that's what I bought my computer for!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: xstians v sinners = g
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:07
EID:1ed2 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21128975
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 29 Dec 96 10:34pm, BRETT JOHNSON wrote to CHRIS GREEN:
CG>> Thanks for your reply Brett, smartly done.
BJ> Thank-you. :)
BJ> It's nice to see someone using this echo that doesn't have some deep
BJ> seated need to make everything into a derogatory flame war.
ROTFL!
Check out his messages that end with the trawler warning.
... To become moderator, how many neutrons did you absorb?
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
* Silver Xpress V4.00
T
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: warring christanic fa
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:08
EID:b525 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 211289ec
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 05:03am, MARILYN BURGE wrote to SUE ALEXANDER:
MB> It sounds like we will be going through this whole thing again
MB> next Christmas or thereabouts. I'm trying to take this one day at
MB> a time. I don't know any other way to get through it, for any of
MB> us.
Perhaps you've already heard of it, but might I recommend
"Love, Medicine, and Miracles" by Bernie Siegal (sp on the last
name)? Despite the title, I don't remember it being theistic at
all.
MB> Before the infamous phone call, he went up to see her and regaled
MB> her with a detailed story of how his last preacher died of cancer.
MB> Eileen was prescient enough to put a clause in her will forbidding
MB> him to be the one to make medical decisions for her, should she
MB> become unable to make them for herself. Is it any wonder why she
MB> did that?
MB> I put the same clause in my will years ago, and, I'm sure, it was
MB> for much the same reasons.
Very wise.
Strength, patience, and whatever serenity can be
cultivated to you.
... "Hate was just a failure of imagination." -G. Greene.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:09
EID:c316 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21128a63
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 10:43am, NATE COOKSON wrote to GWENNY THE POOH:
NC> Well we do agree on one thing... It is life as you stated...
NC> Unlike a organ removed durning a operation, the fetus will become
a
NC> human.. It has everything it needs to grow and be born... That is
as
". . . the fetus will become a human." You are saying that
it is not yet a human!
Since you agree with the pro-choice people on this, why are
you making the fuss?
... Modeming? It's all in the wrist.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 01 Jan 97 16:20:10
EID:3cd0 22218280
MSGID: 1:261/1137 21128ada
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 10:53am, NATE COOKSON wrote to DAN CEPPA:
NC>> give it the Ol' collage try!
NC>> I shall repeat your section for you and some of your simply
NC>> minded
NC>> frinds...
DC>> Try using a spell checker. You are embarrassing yourself in
DC>> an international echo.
NC> You actually take this echo serious enough to use a spell
NC> checker!! You are are a sick puppy then aren't you!
You mean you don't take your cause seriously enough to make
it appear that it's supported by intellectually competent people?
... Go figure? But that's what I bought my computer for!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1455
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 31 Dec 96 16:52:00
EID:7895 219f8680
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Ain't up to me, Roger. But should we let anyone mar a blissful
AS> afterlife and then go, "Oops, I'm sorry"? And how many billion years
AS> into eternity should we extend it? But part of me agrees with you.
Even if it isn't up to you, explain the logic. One minute before death,
repent and go to Heaven. One minute after, repent or not, go to Hell.
AS> Once I did a story for my own amusement that concerned the end of the
AS> world, and Satan's last
AS> trick, and how the forgiveness of Judas Iscariot was pivotal to it...
That's another thing. Judas's role was essential. Why punish him for it?
... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CONSTANTS
|Date: 31 Dec 96 16:55:00
EID:043b 219f86e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Pretty good speculation, however. Model universes that seem to be
AS> quite workable. That doesn't mean there are other universes, of
AS> course. But it does raise a question why these constants are selected
AS> rather than others.
Loaded question. "Selected" implies a selector. Not evidenced.
RH> Stil, anyone who employs reason just MIGHT come to his senses
RH> one day....
AS> And he can also be refuted by reason. IF he bases it there. I think
Not so far.
AS> there should be two components to anyone's belief (or for that matter,
AS> lack of belief)...one reasonable, one emotional. Even most of the
AS> people here who reject Christianity reject it for what I think God
AS> would consider the right reasons---because they feel the doctrine of
AS> hell is cruel, or dislike the sometimes bloody history of
AS> Christianity. Purely emotional, but the right emotions. Only a few
AS> have posted in here steeped in hate for
AS> others (like that bigot who used to post from Memphis).
Agreed. I reject it for those reasons but I would not describe it
as emotional. Rather, the claims of religion are illogical.
... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 31 Dec 96 16:56:00
EID:58bf 219f8700
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Roger, may I raise an objection? Interference. If John's theory is
AS> true, if his quantum-God is influenced by requests, surely yours would
AS> not be the only such request. We don't have a lottery in Tennessee,
AS> but I'm sure in places that have it, MANY people would pray to have
AS> the winning number. So something prayed that many times for many
AS> different outcomes would probably cancel each other out...
AS> (Hmmm...and apply that to wars...)
Ah, but THEY are praying to the wrong God, you see.
... I'm not paranoid.. Which Of my enemies told you this?
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 31 Dec 96 17:03:00
EID:e8a7 219f8860
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> I dunno. Rotting bodies aren't fun to be close to, and spread
Overnight? I don't think so, Al.
AS> disease. I could see sealing it in a Metropolitan area, and then later
AS> undoing the seal...
Wasn't in a metropolitan area. A remote garden, outside the city.
RH> No, just helping make the prophecies come true. He wouldn't see it
RH> as a fraud.
AS> ???? Surely He would know He really didn't die?
True, but he went thru the forms. Like a play...
AS> Now, refresh my memory. What was the drug supposed to be to fake
AS> death? I read the PASSOVER PLOT literally decades ago (I remember
AS> listening to "Jesus Christ Superstar" at the same time....for the
AS> first time).
It was "a drug". The evidence suggests a drug since he "died" almost
immediately, whereas the intent of the liquid was to refresh the
victim.
... "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." -- Heinlein
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 31 Dec 96 17:13:00
EID:5722 219f89a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Dan Ceppa <=-
AS> Yes, it does say, "None come to the Father except by Me"(Jesus) but
AS> does that mean we must believe in Him first, of just that He is the
AS> final arbitrator of who has access to Him? It can be read either way.
Do you know of anyone offhand, other than yourself, who reads
it that way? Especially in the CofC.
... Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FALSE CHRISTIAN SCUM
|Date: 31 Dec 96 17:22:00
EID:816d 219f8ac0
-=> Quoting Becke Boyer to Al Schroeder <=-
BB> Al, thank you...you, at least, were right on the money with you
BB> comments...
Damn, Al, you finally did something right!
Happy New Year, BTW.
... Philosophy, like religion, yields no answers - only mind-sets.
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Brett Johnson; jealous gods
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:05:19
EID:4277 222178a0
MSGID: 1:221/203 16b2df75
TID: GE/32 1.2
FR> #include Brett Johnson
FR>
BJ> If God were not jealous, it would show
BJ> a lack of affection, not the contrary.
FR>
GT> Love and jealousy are _NOT_ complementary, but mutually exclusive.
FR>
mb> Only an emotional illiterate would think otherwise.
FR>
FR> I had to sit here at work and wonder. Hell, I put my feet up and thought
a
FR> Brett's comment. On the whole it smacks of someone laboring under a
malfor
FR> psyche. Without jealosy his gods would lack any show of affection toward
h
FR> There's something fundamentally sick with that belief; or perhaps it's
FR> humanity's primate ancestery he's laboring under.
For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of exclusivity. This
is
the nature of man's relationship to God. This is the ultimate meaning of
the
verse "you shall not have other gods besides me."
The same situation exists for other sacred relationships in this life...the
most akin to the "God-Man" relationship being that between the husband and
wife.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Re: Holiday Books
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:12:06
EID:788e 22217980
MSGID: 1:221/203 16b2df76
TID: GE/32 1.2
BJ> day, and they also put emphasis on other feasts in that season, such
as the
BJ> feast of St.Nicholas (who has virtually nothing to do with "Santa Claus").
GT>
GT> Right, for once. Santa Claus, as all True Folk know, is Father Odhinn.
:)
I've always made it a point to distance St.Nicholas from the charicture
of
greed we now see plastered on the side of Coke cans.
BJ> Things like "the tree", etc, are fairly western symbols. More than
BJ> likely alot of them had pagan origins, but were adopted by Christians
BJ> as symbols of our faith. Evergreens, for example, are about the only
BJ> plants which do not wither during the decay and death of the winter
BJ> season, and thus serve as a symbol of life and hope.
GT>
GT> No 'more than likely' about it, Brett. They _were_ all 'adopted' from
GT> Pagan/Heathen customs, and not just the 'Christmas' ones. Check out
the
GT> origin of the name 'Easter' some time, as well as the symbols associated
wi
GT> it.
All of which were baptized by Christians, their usefullness as symbols
transfered to Christian feasts and celebrations of the Christian mysteries.
I have no problem accepting this fact. My problem is of course when some
pagans take it a step further and state that Christians somehow "borrow"
from
pagan ideals when it comes to what constitutes their faith.
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Re: Darkness
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:14:13
EID:80ce 222179c0
MSGID: 1:221/203 16b2df77
TID: GE/32 1.2
GT> GT>> Yes, whether Jeshua was the Christos that the prophesies seem to
hint
GT> GT>> at or not, is open to debate. It is unfortunate that, if he existed,
GT> GT>> he didn't l writings of his own.
GT>
BJ> In a way, I think he left a more powerful testimony, in the martyrdom
of
BJ> all minus one (St.John) of His Apostles. They were obviously pretty
BJ> convinced of the truth, to suffer and die for it as they did.
GT>
GT> Of course, given the lack of corroborating evidence on _those_ stories,
the
GT> could very well also have been added by a later writer to 'pump up'
xtianit
GT> public image.
I see no reason to doubt them though. It's not as if martyrdom was all
that
uncommon a fate for early Christians. Not too mention that the martyr
traditions are widely attested to from very early on (for example, the first
references to St.Peter's martyrdom occur right after the era the Apostles
lived in.)
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Re: Why God?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 15:18:59
EID:4b91 22217a40
MSGID: 1:221/203 16b2df78
TID: GE/32 1.2
CG> -=> Quoting Brett Johnson to Chris Green <=-
CG>
CG> CG> Can you tell me, in straightforward terms, why it is that you need
God
CG>
CG> BJ> Why do I need gravity? Why do I need the love of other human beings,
CG> BJ> or the nourishment for my body?
CG>
CG> BJ> It's simply a fact of our being. He has made Himself known, I
have
CG> BJ> replied.
CG>
CG> This does not help very much; it is as though you have told someone,
who
CG> has been blind from birth, that colour exists; but you have failed to
CG> explain why 'colour' or 'God' are needed. :-)
Ah...but Chris, could I ever really tell that blind person what it is to
"see
colours"? I think not.
All I can do is alert him, and tell him the good news...and maybe give
testimony of how wonderful it is to see in vibrant colour.
But it is not for me, or any Christian, to make a man see. This is an act
of
God, as I know from my own experience.
Nor could I ever do justice in words to what it is I've come to know from
the
core of my being. Just as one ultimatly can only "experience" what it is
to
see in colour, the same is true of this faith I bear. This is why so often,
when believer and unbeliever speak, they speak to each other in a way that
makes one think they might as well be on different worlds. In a sense,
they
are on different worlds. :)
Looking in hindsight, I can see how God is needed. I think for those who
are
"blind", it's much more difficult. They will tend to only see their need,
when their blindness leaves them so hopeless, that it is made crystal clear,
even to their dull eyes, that they have a "need" which goes to the core
of
their being (and not merely their only hope to get out of their
circumstances.)
PAX
--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in 80 Pr
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:32:00
EID:a2d9 22214c00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65438C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Michael Hardy <=-
JS> Without the Bible to tell us so, there would be no notion of sin.
MH> So then, perhaps sin is simply an invention of the culture which
MH> wrote the Bible, and has no external reality?
JS> I don't believe a 'culture' wrote the Bible. I believe that the Bible
JS> is for all time, and must be interpreted via itself and the Holy
JS> Spirit. (you know I am an inerrantist, Michael)
MH> Yes, I know this; but I'm suggesting you might be in error. I see
MH> nothing in the Bible that indicates it is anything more than a
MH> product of the times and places in which it was written.
JS> I disagree. The Bible is for all time and is not trapped in culture:
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
I know the Bible says this about itself, Jim, but where is there
*anything* in the Bible that demonstrates any kind of knowledge that
wasn't available to the people of the time? How come the Creation story
doesn't mention microbes, just for one example.
... Behind every double standard is a single hidden agenda.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 01 Jan 97 11:55:00
EID:24d2 22215ee0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65438D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
JJ> Heb 6:4-8 "For it is impossible to restore again to
JJ> repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the
JJ> heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted
JJ> the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
(6)
JJ> and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying
JJ> again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. (7) Ground
JJ> that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces
a
JJ> crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing
JJ> from God. (8) But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless
JJ> and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over."
MH> Hmmmmm .... I THINK you just told me to go to hell.
MH> How does this square with Jesus telling Peter he should forgive those
MH> who wrong him "seventy times seven?"
LB> I can't think how questioning Jesse wrongs him. He needn't forgive
LB> you. Nor should his response be to use scripture to declare that he
LB> considers you to be apostate for asking a QUESTION.
Well, I woulda thought so too, but then, I'm a heathen. :-)
LB> Its a very shaky faith that cannot even handle a question without
LB> having to toss aside the questioner for daring to ask it. I suspect
LB> that your daring to ask it bubbled some of his own doubts a bit closer
LB> to the surface and in order to kill his doubts off (gotta hurry! god
LB> might see!), he had to kill off you, spiritually, too.
Actually, it's probably his lawyer training ... first instinct is to
move for dismissal.
LB> Of course there is also the possibiliity that Mr. Thoughtless here was
LB> simply still smarting over your scriptural reminder that his litany
of
LB> good deeds had been rendered worthless to god because of his retelling
LB> of it here, and so he proceeded to hit you with a bit of scripture too.
Perhaps so ... but I think my citation of scripture was more
appropriate to the case than his is.
... Leggo my Ego.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:37:00
EID:672d 22214ca0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65438E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
FR> I'm disappointed. David already set a place at the table for you.
MH> Didn't say anything about turning down a dinner invitation ... :-)
LB> Now, now...there is always the possibility that you ARE dinner. ;)
LB> Just to be safe, make sure the place David set for you isn't, in fact,
LB> the serving platter.
Oooh, good point! Hey Daaaaviiiiiddddd ...... :-)
... I've made up my mind. Now to find some facts ...
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:38:00
EID:6229 22214cc0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65438F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Rod Swift <=-
DC> No, dickhead. I'm tired your fucking whining.
RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan. :) :)
RS> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
RS> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....
LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!
Oh cheeses, another pun thread starting up ...
... This score just in: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:39:00
EID:6f62 22214ce0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654390
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Richard Smith <=-
ML> Which I find somewhat curious and altogether very
ML> unusual. Might it be that we're being set up for a
ML> grand Hardyesque jape?
RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
RS> jape . . .
LB> :) If that's so, then I'm in on it...
LB> (walking away, whistling...)
You mean ... a Hardyesque/Schroederoid/Bustillozian jape?? Oh no!
They're all DOOMED!! :-)
... EB> JP> SF> RJ> LY> PM> SS> AO> ER> SP> DL> Stop quoting this.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: 2 Corinthians 9:13
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:40:00
EID:0191 22214d00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654391
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Christian Hedemark <=-
CH> * OLX 2.1 TD * (dis)Prove it!
LB> You can start here...explain to me how one can prove a negative?
Actually, he's asking you to disprove a negative, which is like proving
a positive only in reverse, meaning it's a double negative which leads
to a positive, because ...
...my brain hurts...
... Very funny Scotty. Now beam up my clothes.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:42:00
EID:a288 22214d40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654392
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Nate Cookson <=-
NC> the point was, that what comes out of the womb is a human
NC> being... made of flesh and blood, the Bible tells us that God
NC> knows us from the time we are in the womb, until we die. So...
NC> the tissue that our so called doctors are puting in the trash is
NC> human life. Our current disdain for human life is no less as low
NC> as the time Hilter was doing his thing..
LB> So, you want all us women to give our tampons and sanitary pads a
LB> decent Christian burial every month?
LB> Will you do the eulogy?
Now now ... you know what he meant.
Punk. :-)
... Men and women are not the same. There's a vas deferens between us.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 01 Jan 97 09:58:00
EID:fe78 22214f40
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654393
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Gwenny The Pooh <=-
RS> Which is what I told him. I wasn't aware that they finally started
RS> calling it Christmas . . . all the English novels that I've ever read
RS> that dealt with that time of year referred to it as Yule, I'm pretty
RS> sure . . .
GtP> I always thought that, too. But then all the Brits I know are either
GtP> Wiccan, atheist, or SF nuts. . .or all three.
LB> *ahem*, you two....
LB> Ever hear of a little story by a British author Charles Dickens...NOT
LB> known as "A Yule Carol"...
Course not. Everybody knows it's "A Samhain Carol"
... Hebrew: What happens when she won't make the tea.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ciya
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:01:00
EID:a8f2 22215020
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654394
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> "If I leave now you'll all claim a victory."
FR> To which a regular replied:
FR> "No, we win when you learn to think for yourself."
DC> :)
Then what do you do? Put a notch in one of your horns?
... Hebrew: What happens when she won't make the tea.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:03:00
EID:981e 22215060
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Rice <=-
>JJ> Myself, I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's response:
>JJ> Only those who believe are obedient, and only
>JJ> those who obey believe.
DC> I do wonder if Jesse knows that he's deserving a
DC> place in the FAQ, once again, for such a lovely
DR> I wonder if Jesse knows just how evil and abomitable
DR> the Bonhoeffer quote is.
DC> Did it ever occur to you that Jesse took a powder very shortly
DC> after I re-posted that quote of his? Perhaps he is thinking
DC> about what it means.
DC> But, I doubt it. I think he left so that he wouldn't have
DC> to face the truth and that he could live happily ever after
DC> in his blind obedience to his masters.
No! He left because I asked him a hurtful question that his
Christanic masters couldn't answer! It's my first kill, damn it, and
you're NOT taking it from me! :-)
... Behaviorial Research: Pulling habits out of rats.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Dark Bible #4
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:07:00
EID:ca44 222150e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654396
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-
DW> 26 Dec 96 15:12, John Brawley wrote to Al Schroeder:
JB> But I don't go out much,
DW> Does this really come as a surprise to anyone?
David wrote, sitting at his computer at home ... :-)
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:18:00
EID:0b6e 22215240
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654397
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Jesse disappointed me. I expected something more thoughtful from
MH> him.
MG> I never have seen much of an insightful nature from Jesse. Jesse's
MG> claim that ateists do no good things is overly dogmatic for most here
MG> and now he is wishing that he never said it. In order to save face,
MG> he's bouncing around making stuff up, like his reply to you.
I gather that. I suppose my surprise came mainly because I've never
been perceived as being his opponent before ... hadn't really paid much
attention to how he treats those who disagree with him.
... The invitation said black tie only. Why are all of you in suits?
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Welcome to the state of T
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:19:00
EID:d71a 22215260
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654398
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Sorry to disappoint you, but ...
ML> Not at all. I was a tad curious, though, where you had nipped
ML> off to and what had transpired during that time. Must have been
ML> something rather seismic for you to have such a change of view.
Not really. More a culmination of small things.
ML> Care to elaborate? (If not, I understand perfectly if you tell
ML> me to MYOB.)
Not at all ... several people have asked.
The thrust is, I'm not sure to what extent I ever did have faith. I was
quite skeptical from my late teens through mid-20s. I returned
to Christianity after my father died. Looking back, I see
that his death led me to realize the stark truth of mortality; I
ultimately embraced faith, I think, because of the assurance of heaven.
Over the time I've been a Christian, I've constantly read apologetics
to bolster my "faith," which suggests it never was truly faith ...
always belief, which is different. As time passed, some of the skeptics
and critics here in Holy Smoke, and also some I know locally, began to
make sense. Although I'd had nagging doubts all along, it was earlier
this year that I began to realize I was no longer buying what I was
selling. The reason I dropped out a while back was because I was tired
of espousing a view that didn't ring true. I needed time to see if I
really was changing, or if it was just echo burnout.
What I found was that my earlier skepticsm was still there. I had just
covered it over with a lot of rationalization and rhetoric, motivated
by fear of non-existence. Faith is, at its core, non-rational. Lynda
Bustilloz was right all along ... if you believe, you believe, without
demanding evidence and without claiming to be able to demonstrate God
to anyone else. It's not a matter of reason.
Considering modern cosmology (Hugh Ross nonwithstanding) and
evolution, the evidential case for God is becoming increasingly one of
accomodation. God is no longer needed for the universe to exist, or for
us to be here; the apologetic line is now "OK, you don't actually
*need* a god to explain existence, but you can have one if you like."
God has retreated from being the designer and creator of all life to
being the entity that wound the universe and let it go. The obvious
question is, if God exists, and if something vital hinges on our
knowing that and acting on it, then in what way is it loving to design
a universe that appears natural, and then hide yourself from the people
that you're insisting must believe you exist, and claim to love?
The possible answers I can see are:
1. No God exists.
2. A loving God exists, and doesn't make our eternity dependent upon
what we believe.
3. A hateful God exists who intends to damn us anyway.
I'm comfortable, for now, being agnostic ... I don't know the answer,
and do have enough faith to say that if God exists, he respects my
honest questions.
... This score just in: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:34:00
EID:72c2 22215440
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A654399
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Ronald Vass to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> AS> His search is not over yet; nor is anybody's here, who is honestly
MH> AS> questing and not found an answer. And if you think you have the
MH> AS> answer, you have a duty not to scorn him. Peter thought he would
RV> never
MH> AS> deny Jesus...and Jesus told him, sadly, that he would deny Him three
MH> AS> times. Yet Jesus appeared to Peter after the Resurrection and made
RV> him
MH> AS> the leader of the apostles when they first started out. And he
RV> denied
MH> AS> Him AFTER he had travelled with Him for months.
MH> Appreciated.
RV> W H Y ?
RV> Why should you care, what anyone thinks ?
Ultimately, I don't. I'm grateful for Al's support. I wouldn't be
overly troubled if he were not supportive.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:35:00
EID:a581 22215460
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Ronald Vass to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> MH> holdover from our pre-scientific age. OTOH, there may *be* a god
who
MH> MH> designed us to value those things, in which case we honor God by
MH> MH> valuing those things, rather than worrying about whose beliefs are
MH> MH> "right."
MH> LB> Very nicely put!
MH> :-) Thanks.
RV> So, which god ?
If there is a God, then *the* God that is ... not necessarily any of
the human ideas of God.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:36:00
EID:3e01 22215480
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> But the deistic God could have a heaven waiting for us. No reason to
MH> think it doesn't. The problem is, Judeo-Christian tradition holds
MH> that God intervenes often in the affairs of humanity; that's why
MH> people pray for things.
AS> Yes. But those prayers are not always answered. (Indeed, if they
AS> were answered infallibly all the time, people would treat it more like
AS> sorcery than prayer...a demand, not a petition.) And rarely in a way
AS> that circumvents natural law.
Although, Jesus guaranteed that they would be.
The question is, are prayers *ever* answered? David Worrell tells of a
girl he dated who attributed receiving some money to the power of a
pagan ritual. A Christian would call it an answered prayer, an atheist
would call it a happy coincidence.
Any evidence that Christians, or any other group, has a higher rate of
such things than everybody else, suggesting divine favor?
I have always thought of prayer more as a meditative exercise to put us
in touch with the divine, not an opportunity to present a wish list. I
may begin practicing it again, even through my agnosticism, and see if
I still benefit from it.
... "Sheesh! Try to do something nice, and you get flamed!" -- Joan of Arc
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: superstition two
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:40:00
EID:dbcf 22215500
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> You could indeed. Could you get those who knew Bobby, Jackie, and JFK
AS> to believe it, though?
MH> No, but it's not neccessary. Perhaps people who knew Peter and the
MH> others didn't buy Paul's stories either; enough people did to get the
MH> movement started.
AS> Doesn't that suppose not much commerce between, say, Corinth, where
AS> Paul preached exactly that, and Palestine? Granted they couldn't hop
AS> on a jetplane or watch CNN, still it was a fairly large empire where
AS> travel and commerce went on. Or Ephesus. Or...and Corinth's a sea
AS> port, remember. (It also presupposes that John, both the Gospels and
AS> the letters, are fake, that 1 PEter is a fake, etc.) Why should they
AS> believe Paul when surely some of them would want to walk the streets
AS> Jesus walked, and would check with the head Jerusalem Church
AS> themselves?
You're missing it. The point is, it doesn't matter how many disbelieved
it. Perhaps 90 percent of the people disbelieved it. All it took was a
few believers ... there's no indication, even in the Bible and church
history, that Christianity was anything more than one cult among many
prior to Constantine. Christianity is still alive today probably only
because of Constantine.
MH> Yes, but how do we know they didn't originally stem from a single
MH> source? Jesus died. A legend began circulating about his return. Paul
MH> wrote of it. The gospel authors wrote of it. A couple of others wrote
MH> of it --- all because of the same original superstition, not
MH> independent corrboration.
AS>
AS> Then they would all match much MORE than they do. The variations
AS> between (at least) the Synoptics is about what we would expect from
AS> different eyewitnesses or sources (just as a police officer knows
AS> every witness' story will differ in some degree), and the Gospel of
AS> John would vary MORE. We can't have it both ways. If they all relied
AS> on a single source, they would match up more.
Not at all. That would be true if there had been a conspiracy, but
that's not what I'm suggesting. In fact, the accounts diverge precisely
because they all stem from a single original tradition, which evolved
along different lines as it was re-told among various groups, until it
was finally written down four times and alluded to several more.
Whether the original tradition itself is history or legend is what has
to be determined.
The gospels are far closer to agreeing about the details of Jesus's
trial and execution than about his Resurrection ... suggesting that the
mundane events have a base in real history, while the more fantastic
ones may not.
AS> If it's a hoax, it's a hoax that includes at least six people, with
AS> six very distinct writing styles. And no records that show any
AS> different...at all. Six different lies, all well coordinated, with
AS> not any great differences, unless you want to count the Gospel of
AS> John...which nevertheless had the basic heart of the Gospel, that
AS> Jesus was tried under Pontius Pilate, was crucified...and rose again.
AS> I'm not a big Oliver Stone, and I don't accept most conspiracy
AS> theories. Not for today. Not for two thousand years ago, either.
MH> Not a hoax, but a belief passed on by several believers -- perhaps
MH> very sincere, but operating under pre-scientific standards of truth.
AS> It's possible. But IF it's the case, then why don't the accounts jibe
AS> more accurately? We're not talking five hundred years or so for
AS> different variations to develop, as we are with Arthur. Even with that
AS> example you gave me not long ago where such things developed so
AS> quickly (that guy who later converted to Islam) I wouldn't expect two
AS> different traditions to grow that quickly.
But they *did* Al, even if the event really happened. The different
traditions are undeniably real.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: the real world
|Date: 01 Jan 97 10:48:00
EID:e174 22215600
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> I think (and have argued repeatedly) that a God IS necessary
AS> for what we see in the constants of nature, on which everything else
AS> depends. As for why play hide and seek that way...because if He
AS> doesn't, He ruins the whole purpose.
MH> No, I no longer buy that. If God is righteous enough to immediately
MH> punish evil (which he's portrayed as doing repeatedly in the OT) then
MH> he's already blown the free-will game. If he's also merciful, and if
MH> our eternity depends on what we believe about him, then he should do
MH> whatever is necessary to make his existence unquestionable.
AS>
AS> And that worked SOOOOOO well, didn't it?
What, God made a mistake?
AS> Let's...for the sake of argument, take the tack that the story of
AS> Exodus is literally true. That God led them, a cloud by day, a pillar
AS> by night, rained manna on them, parted the Red Sea, etc. For about
AS> forty years, the Israelites lived in close proximity to both God and
AS> Moses, who wielded miraculous powers on behalf of God.
AS> How could the Israelites possibly doubt?
AS> Yet the funny thing is...and the part that makes it sound so odd
AS> that it throws doubt on it being made up...is that they DID.
AS> Repeatedly. The golden calf is but one example. Again and again, even
AS> though they could SEE His actions pretty unmistakably, even though
AS> their lives unquestionably depended on it, they kept on doubting. What
AS> storyteller would make up a story where a miracle happened in front
of
AS> their eyes, and they STILL fell back into the old habits of doubting?
AS> If anything, they tended to act worse...
AS> You might look at that little period as an experiment. To see how
AS> Man, of his free will, would react to close proximity to God. (Even
if
AS> God knew the answer beforehand, it showed US.) And it was not a
AS> cureall. Anything but. It's as if we are scared and HAVE to deny if
we
AS> get too close. That it is too overwhelming, and one has to close off
AS> the evidence of one's own senses to hold onto their sanity.
Hmmm ... so did God damn his lab rats after they responded to the
stimuli?
The reality is, his hiding doesn't make for any greater belief than his
presence.
AS> If He is interested in creating intelligent beings, as the
AS> anthropic stuff indicates, it must be to USE that intelligence. And
AS> you may disagree, but I think the evidence is that some altruism is
AS> not simply to be explained in evolutionary terms, so part of our
AS> morality is God-derived (but not necessarily RELIGION derived---it is
AS> part of our heritage of being human, and atheists also know innately
AS> that killing randomly is wrong, unless they're sociopaths.)
MH> That's a non-sequitur. Real altruism may not be a survival trait, but
MH> it's also rare enough that it causes no overall harm to the species.
MH> No God needed to explain it; it's a quirk.
AS> Then it's an odd quirk that runs through all the species...and all
AS> our highest ideals embrace that "quirk". Very few societies don't
AS> agree that selfless acts are holy, noble, and to be desired, no matter
AS> how rarely they are carried out.
I'm not sure about that. We all admire the occasional self-sacrifice,
but we also all sympathize greatly with those who can't bring
themselves to make such sacrifices ... because most of us wouldn't.
AS> do, which is really a good sign. If our morality was merely shaped
by
AS> evolutionary necessity, we would live solely by evolutionary
AS> criteria...and kill the disabled and retarded who cannot be cured, and
AS> might pass such genes along.
MH> Some have advocated that, and tried to justify it.
AS> They have indeed. Nazi Germany comes to mind. But that is the
AS> exception, not the rule. Even in primitive societies, the mad are
AS> often regarded as "holy" and left alone.
Again, though, I think evolution explains it. Compassion is a survival
trait ... it may lead to some degree of individual sacrifice, but it is
good for the species overall.
... My friend studied animal husbandry, until they caught him at it.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: free will
|Date: 01 Jan 97 11:32:00
EID:a0f3 22215c00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> Thus the hide and seek. If He manifests Himself too overtly, we do
AS> good because we KNOW, without a douibt, that Big Brother is watching.
MH> Big Brother also knows if we would do good anyway, or are just doing
MH> it out of fear; meanwhile, those who would believe in and follow God
MH> if given enough evidence have thier evidence. If it saves even one
MH> soul, isn't it worth it to a loving Creator?
AS> Not if it costs more souls the other way. We decide, as we always
AS> decide.
How about on an individual basis? Say a skeptic says: "I would believe
in God if he would appear in my house and talk to me for one hour." If
the skeptic's eternity matters to God, and if the sentiment is sincere,
why would God not do it? There were theophanies in the OT. Why not now?
(Openly, I mean, not God in disguise.)
MH> No, but if you were driving down the street and saw one of your
MH> rebellious children being raped, would you let it go on without
MH> trying to stop it?
AS> No; and this is where the analogy breaks down; because we're dealing
AS> with an omnipotent being. If He interferes there, why should He stop?
AS> He allows evil to exist for the same reason He allows our evil to
AS> exist...petty cruelties or other infractions that I, at least, have
AS> committed. To a perfect Being, all would be repugnant to Him,
AS> although not equally repugnant. But if He interferes with them, then
AS> our freedom is but a hollow sound.
Then what was he doing in the Bible when he brought down a city's
walls, freed Peter from prison, etc.? Did not the jailers have free
will? If you're a Bible-believing Christian, you have to accept that
God *can* and *does* manipulate things ... he could prevent a rape
without being overt about it. Your rationalization works in isolation,
but you're defending a theology derived from the Bible and failing to
account for certain important claims in the Bible.
AS> Also be aware that your repugnance to the action is based on
AS> instinctive morality that has its roots in Him. Many people have
AS> devised ethical systems without reference to God, or gods, such as
AS> Kant's categorical imperative, etc. But it is all justification after
AS> the fact. The very morality that rejects it as cruel has its roots in
AS> God. And God sees mankind abusing mankind. He does not interfere,
AS> because He thinks that the freedom to choose outweighs the abuse that
AS> is possible if we are free. You may disagree. But the very morality
AS> that you are using to judge such has His roots in Him.
That's a belief. The atheist would say that our human ideas of God
reflect our natures, natures arising naturally. We create God in our
own image.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Marilyn Burge
|Date: 01 Jan 97 11:40:00
EID:774b 22215d00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A65439F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
MB> Now three of the five of us have had some form of cancer:
MB> Eileen, brain cancer (and possibly lung); Art, prostate
MB> cancer; and, Jeanette, breast cancer.
MB> Only Vi, the eldest and I, next to the youngest remain cancer-
MB> free.
MB> Sometimes life is hard.
:( I'm truly sorry to hear this. My grandfathers both died of cancer,
and my father had a bout with it (thyroid) before his heart disease
took him. It's a very hard to disease to watch someone suffer with. My
sympathies, for what little they may be worth, are with you.
... E=MC Hammer.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 01 Jan 97 11:48:00
EID:363e 22215e00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A6543A0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Richard Smith <=-
MG> It amazed me some years later to watch an interview with The
MG> University of Texas' best fraternity party hostess, Farah Fawcett
MG> expalining why "Charlie's Angels" was not a jiggle show.
MG> Thank goodness we have come so much farther since then, with
MG> shamelessly stacked frauleins that have no acting ability. Yes, we
MG> have surely come a long way.
Maybe you have ... I can't even get to first base with them. ;-)
... I've made up my mind. Now to find some facts ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: anthropic altruism
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:23:00
EID:ed94 22219ae0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8A6543A1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
...further thoughts on the anthropic principle and altruism ...
It strikes me that if the God of the Bible existed, his reality should
be manifest in the universe ... miraculous events inexplicable by
natural science should occur in public ways at least once in a while,
for just one example. (They did in the Bible.)
Instead, God has been forced into a steady retreat:
Theist: God is clearly proven by A.
Atheist: Actually, A is now known to be caused by B, a natural process.
T: OK, but God is the designer of B, with the intention that A should
be the result.
A: Well, B is a natural consequence of known physical forces, C.
T: Fine, but God intentioned C, to bring about B, to cause A.
Etc., until the theist must find evidence of God in some set of
esoteric "anthropic" constants, and in rare human traits like altruism.
The thing is, everytime science has faced a black box it can't easily
fill, apologists have rushed to claim that *there* is evidence of God.
Trouble is, so far it's always been just a matter of time until the
puzzle of the box has been solved.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:28:59
EID:a1d0 22219380
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32caad45
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2c491fc2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Mimi Milstein!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Mimi Milstein
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Dander raising:
MM> Hello Glen!
MM> Glen Todd wrote in a message to David Worrell:
DW>> Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
GT>> Hoo-hah! Maybe I'd better stick around to pick up the
GT>> pieces after this one.
MM> Nah, I don't mind..... I actually enjoy this kind of trolling
MM> banter. Dave is after all headmaster of 'The School of Snide
MM> Remarks'. I just keep my ammo dry and wait for the right
MM> moment :-) He is a great teaser - I am just sorry Gwenny felt
MM> hurt by his latest 'snidery'.
That's because he chose to pick not on myself or on Gwenny, but on a child
who doesn't even participate in this echo, Suzanne.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... The worst thing about censorship is лллллллллл and it лллллллллллллл!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:30:42
EID:b336 222193c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32caad6a
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c44cb40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Richard Smith!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Richard
Smith
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about theistic bombast:
};>> Glen Todd wrote in a message to Steve Hayes <:(
DW>> Why do we need to be saved?
sh>> There are some questions that people need to answer for themselves,
sh>> and that's one of them.
GT>> I have, thanks. I doubt you'd care for the answer I got, though.
RS> I'm feeling especially prophetic today . . . I bet I can
RS> divine the general gist of your answer . . .
No doubt.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... It's not often someone makes my twit filter with one post.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:31:15
EID:2931 222193e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32caada8
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2c44cb41
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Richard Smith!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Richard
Smith
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about My Summer Weekend:
GT>> Your ass can't be as heavy-boned as your head obviously is. As soon
GT>> as I get our next set of pictures back, I'll be glad to supply you
GT>> with a URL where you can see for yourself what I'm talking about.
I
GT>> will then expect a posted apology to myself, to my wife, and to my
GT>> daughter. In the mean time, would you like to arm-wrestle her?
RS> LOL . . . man, I'd PAY to see that!
Maybe it should be one of the headliners at the Holysmoke Convention.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... "Oh, very clever Worf. Eat any good books lately?" -- Q
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gerry Danen
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:32:53
EID:fa6b 22219400
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cab27e
REPLY: 1:342/1017 32c4aed7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gerry Danen!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Gerry Danen
whisper furtively to Gwenny the Pooh something about December 25:
GP>> much of the world they are converting. Truth is, there were only a
GP>> couple o tiny places where the MAJORITY of the people profess a belief
GP>> in Jeshua and his ghost dad. A good portion of the planet has never
GP>> even seen a missionar
GD> Is that what we're talking about, my newage friend?
HOO-HAH! Newage? Gwenny? Boy, are _YOU_ in for a surprise. She
thinks almost as little of newage (rhymes with sewage, and the same watered-down
crap) as she does of other types of xtians, and for similar reasons.
GP>> and at least two thirds doesn't have enough converts to support a
GP>> church. we blithely go along believing that everyone celebrates
GP>> Christmas.
GD> No, I don't mean to suggest that everyone celebrates Christmas, just
GD> that those who do, know its meaning.
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
Jolly old Saint Nicholas. accept our sacrifice.
Kill a tree, kill a tree, kill a tree for Christ,
We don't know what we're doing, but it seems to work out nice.
Is that it? The date's all wrong, even if you accept GLuke as 100% accurate
history rather than the rip-off of the Mithras story that it certainly seems
to be, the symbology's all northern European Heathen and has nothing to
do with Christianity whatsoever, records of your own supreme leaders show
that it was established deliberately and cynically on the date it's on to
co-opt an earlier Pagan Sun-god holiday into bolstering their own theology,
and so forth. Nevertheless, you maintain that you have the One True(tm)
version of the midwinter holiday. Fascinating.
GP>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
GP>> Gwenny
GD> And who will be your authority when you stand before God Almighty after
GD> you die? I'm sorry but I feel very sorry for you. You may just feel
GD> wonderful about yourself right now, but think of the hereafter...and
GD> don't for a moment about reincarnation. It ain't real!
And what _faintest_ evidence do you have that there is any possibility of
the above ever coming to pass. Even if there were any indication whatever
that there was anything at all to your theology to make it worth more than
the paper it's endlessly reprinted on, your god is the god of Israel, of
the Semites and the Hebrews. Neither Gwenny nor myself nor a lot of other
people in here have the faintest trace of Semetic ancestry, therefore there
is absolutely no reason why we should have the slightest concern for your
Hebraic god, nor (presuming his existence) he in us.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... 1066, Not enough Saxon violence.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: True Folk
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:53:27
EID:e691 222196a0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cab46a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, DAVID RICE!
Tuesday December 24 1996 10:44, DAVID RICE wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DR> I'm not at all sure, but for the Aesir-minded,
DR> the word "Folk" capitalized roughly means "coven"
DR> or "community."
'Community' or 'people' is closer than 'coven' as 'coven' is presumptively
an initiate study and working group, which would remotely be applicable
only to the small subset of Asatruar who are actively involved with the
priesthood and with magick. The name 'Asatru' literally translates as
'True to the Gods'; specifically the High Gods of the Scandinavian and Teutonic
lands, the Aesir and Vanir. In a larger scope (as I originally used it),
I would define that term as including any person who is honourable and ethical,
and who is true to their kin and kindred, and to their people and the path
of their people.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... * <- Tribble. * <- His Evil Tribble Twin, Skippy
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Dark Bible
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:01:58
EID:dfa4 22219820
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cab50c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, DAVID RICE!
Wednesday December 25 1996 15:42, DAVID RICE wrote to GLEN TODD:
>>DR> Nope: it is the facts as demonstrated by the long, bloody, ugly,
>>DR> demonic history of Christianity. You need only take off your
>>DR> blinders, stop masturbating with your paper idol (the Bible), and
>>DR> look at Christianity's history-+- only then will you will realize
>>DR> the truth.
GT>> Actually he will _NEVER_ realize the truth as long as he refuses to
GT>> look at the real world, real history, and real facts about real
GT>> people because they threaten his precious beLIEf.
DR> It is ironic as all get-out that it is up to the atheists, Pagans, and
DR> Jews to educate Christians about Christianity and the Bible.
It is that, in very deed. Disgusting, isn't it?
GT>> That's why 'Bible Study' classes never, NEVER, _NEVER_ teach anything
GT>> ABOUT theeir Bible or it's history.
DR> Aww, yah noticed that, eh? :-) When I was posting in the alt.atheism
DR> newsgroup, I used to get e-mail from Fundies who pleaded with me to
DR> check out their "Bible study" WWW sites. I checked out one and saw
DR> =NO= Bible study there, even though the site was extensive.
Yep -- I noticed. I've seen the same, on the Web and elsewhere.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... The middle of the road is for yellow lines, dead possums and politicians.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:16:56
EID:7d6b 22219a00
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cab938
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c5bf69
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Al Schroeder!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Al Schroeder
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about GET SPECIFIC:
AS>> Well, I think there was indeed a living God who responded to Israel.
GT>> Yes -- the god of ISRAEL!! NOT by any stretch of the imagination
of
GT>> any of the rest of the world or of those of us who are not of Semetic
AS> Because they believe that Yahweh didn't just create the Semites. But
Although (if you take their sacred book at face value) he himself identified
himself as the god of the sons of Abraham, and a while later his avatar/prpohet/whatever
Jeshua specifically denied having any interest in or responsibility for
any non-Jew. It wasn't until Saul of Tarsus showed up on the scene that
we started hearing the universalist noise. Who you going to believe; Jeshua
or Saul?
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Six pints of bitter. And quickly please, the world's about to end
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: A horn we raise in welcome to the God of ecstasy (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:22:24
EID:d763 22219ac0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cabc7e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32c5bf6a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Al Schroeder!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Al Schroeder
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about GET SPECIFIC:
AS>> Well...not defending it, Glen, because I'm not really the evangelical
AS>> type, which I suppose is a failing...but it's rather...
GT>> Not to my mind -- it's rather one of your better qualities.
GT>> Evangelism is dishonourable of the perpetrator, dishonoring to the
GT>> victim thereof, unethical, and blamed annoying.
AS> It made some sense in the first century, when it really WAS news. It
made
AS> some sense in pagan lands where they hadn't heard it before. But when
AS> people have already heard it, and rejected it, a new approach is needed.
AS> Not a hard sell, but a gentle invitation, freely given and if rejected,
AS> rejected without rancor.
That IMO should _ALWAYS_ have been the approach, presuming that it was necessary
at all. It certainly would have garnered them greater respect and honour
from the rest of the world than the 'torture and murder for Jesus' types
have, and from what I can see the current evangelical crop bears a much
greater resemblance to the latter than the former. Granted, their weapons
now are generally fear, disinformation, and psychological manipulation rather
than fire and the sword, but the general approach hasn't changed.
GT>> That's got nothing to do with the above. Preventing physical harm,
GT>> particularly to a child or one under guardianship, has _nothing_ to
do
GT>> with attempting to 'convert' someone.
AS> Well, to those who believe people are in danger of hellfire if they
don't
AS> believe, they DO believe they are saving people from harm. But it's
much
AS> more distant, and can cause people to turn away in disgust.
Ah, but from my POV that is not only unevidenced but quite self-serving.
What they're saying, stripping out the theological loaded words, is along
the lines of ; "We're justified in barging in, taking over your life, and
telling you what to believe and how to think because we're saving you from
a danger that only we know about, that we can't demonstrate now or ever,
and that threatens _you_ regardless of the fact that it's on;ly part of
_our_ theology. In your example there was a very clear, present, and demonstrable
harm intended, and the intention of the protector was to prevent that specific
harm, not to take control of the child's life for all time to come with
threats of a hypothetical future harm. See the difference?
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... * <- Tribble. `*' <- Viking Tribble.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Viking raiders on the cyber sea. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: truth
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:38:39
EID:78e1 22219cc0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cabdb2
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32c49af0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, David Worrell!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard David Worrell
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about truth:
DW>>> Now we get "True Folk/False Folk Scum" from the Pagans.
GT>> You'd better find out just what I said above,
DW> You said "True Folk." The existence of a "True Folk" strongly implies
the
DW> existence of "False Folk."
Yep. Find my explanation of the above term, and figure out the corrolary
for yourself.
DW> You mean like that goofy shit about raven banners?
Again, don't presume until you have some idea of what I mean by the above-referenced
line.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... The world is like a cactus except the pricks are inside.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:43:17
EID:9068 22219d60
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cabe89
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c627bf
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Gwenny the
Pooh whisper furtively to Katherine Wintersnight something about Alignment
list:
GTP>>> Ack, I have been missing out on good stuff. Have we had a atheist
or
GTP>>> agnostic "find Jesus" yet??
KW>> Not that I'm aware of, unless you want to count Joanna.
GtP> I don't think yoyos count.
Is there anything Joanna hasn't been? (Usually for about a week.)
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence_with_large_hammer
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Listen, warriors of the Old Gods (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: 2 corinthians 9:13
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:45:01
EID:118f 22219da0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cabef8
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c62acd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Gwenny the
Pooh whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about 2 corinthians 9:13:
GtP>>> I don't know where you people got the idea that I am anything but
a
GtP>>> shy retiring obedient woman. Just ask my hus...on second thought,
GtP>>> don't.
GT>> No comment.
GtP> Your training isn't complete yet. Back to the dungeon.
RV>> I think you would also enjoy his writeing. I did wonder where he
GT>RV>> was going with a toss out of 'mother earth' and a 'creator'.
GT>RV>> Almost sounds as if he had two god types in there, a minor and a
GT>RV>> major.
GT>> Vanir and Aesir; the gods of the world around us and the gods of the
GT>> folk so of our people. What could be easier or more obvious?
RV> It would appear from his way of writeing, mother earth, led to the
RV> form of the animal, the creator was the cause of mother earth. The
RV> spirt/soul of the animal return/made it's way, to the creator of all.
Mother Earth and the Sky-Father, the Lord and the Lady, the Aesir and the
Vanir. No problem.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... A social life? What board can I download THAT from?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The call of the Horn is ringing from the hill (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 01 Jan 97 19:58:45
EID:bc95 22219f40
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cac287
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c78aed
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Gwenny the
Pooh whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Reading Incomprehension:
NC>>> The FACT remains it is one of the most published books in the history
NC>>> of mankind.
GT>> Verifiable but not relevant, as most of the publishing was occasioned
GT>> by Church extortion (excuse me, 'love offerings') and not by free
GT>> market demand.
GtP> To say nothing of the CENTURIES when few other books were allowed to
be
GtP> copied. But, he might even be wrong about that. According to someone
GtP> else, the Buddhist writings are the most published, with the Buddhists
GtP> also taking first place for most members.
I said that his statement was verifiable, not that it had been (or was likely
to be) verified. Also, a statement may be verified either as true or false;
'verified' does not imply 'verified as true'.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... "I came, I saw, she conquered. The latin seems to be garbled" RAH
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: A horn we raise in welcome to the God of ecstasy (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: MENSA
|Date: 01 Jan 97 20:05:36
EID:3851 2221a0a0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cac3c2
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32c7a73f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
Monday December 30 1996 11:21, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Chris Green:
CG>> As far as I recall, the only American style college anywhere in the
UK
CG>> is in Milton Keynes area; and you have to be mega-rich to even think
CG>> about going there.
GtP> So the British colleges don't have entrance exams? What do they base
GtP> acceptance on??
Family and money.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... URA Redneck if truckers tell your wife to watch her language.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 01 Jan 97 20:08:21
EID:76ad 2221a100
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cac466
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c3e5c8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Nate Cookson!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Nate Cookson
whisper furtively to Kurtis Baxter something about Bible:
NC> Well my friend it was really penned by 40 authors under the direction
NC> of God, it's purpose was to speak to mankind about a better way...
Not in evidenc. And better for whom? Seens to me that the only ones
who really benefited were the self-appointed patriarchy and their holy-owned
(spelling intentional) politicos, who had themselves a great tool for fattening
their own purses and keeping the slaves under control.
NC> SOme have chosen to reject it's message (Which is within their rights)
NC> Funny isn't it... God the FIRST giver of human rights!
Neither the existence (or identity) of your god or the alleged 'gift' itself
are in evidence, the more so because the churchmen of this god seem to start
by semanding that their followers surrender all rights, free will, and free
thought to themselves (in the name of their god), and then fare forth with
their army of sheep to _demand_ that everybody else be stripped of the same
rights and freedoms for the 'glory' of their god and the furtherance of
their dreams of theocratic totalitarianism. Seems a mite contradictory
to me.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Despite the cost of living, it remains popular.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: theistic bombast
|Date: 01 Jan 97 20:14:02
EID:5df4 2221a1c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cac5af
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32c7f1eb
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Steve Hayes!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Steve Hayes
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about theistic bombast:
DW>>> Why do we need to be saved?
SH>> There are some questions that people need to answer for themselves,
SH>> and that's one of them.
GT>> I have, thanks. I doubt you'd care for the answer I got, though.
SH> Well, bully for you :-)
SH> Whether I like the answer or not is irrelevant.
Precisely.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Murphy's Rule of Combat: Incoming fire has the right of way.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:43:52
EID:8539 22219560
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cab098
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72e25991
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> But he's such a good example. Asshole! I don't why he has to be
GtP>> trashing my daughter because she's overweight. Maybe all the
GtP>> women in his state are undernourished because they don't have
GtP>> time to eat between keeping their fathers, uncles and brothers
GtP>> satisfied.
MG> To be very honest with you, it is my firm belief that David likes to
get
MG> people's goat. Like the Brawley incident here with him and Sherman,
he
MG> likes to get a reaction. I wouldn't pay him no never mind.
You are probably correct. So I'll only bait him occassionally and wait
to see him making himself look silly answering my posts to other people.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Data of Borg: You will be assimilated; absorbed; engulfed;...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: So Long
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:45:00
EID:1a90 222195a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cab181
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 72e29157
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> You are being generous. A cat being eviscerated is more like it.
MG> If it were a cat being eviscerated, I'd love it. I'm looking for a
way to
MG> pack cats into small cans and sell them. they would have just about
as
MG> much use as pet rocks used to have, so I figure I can clean up quickly.
MG> How does "Pussy in a Can" sound to you?
Sounds like a winner. Just leave my. . .um. . .cats out of it, okay?
MG>>> No one need call my wife about his, as she is about to die
MG>>> from picking all the almonds out of the mixed nuts again.
GtP>> As long as she left the cashews, I'd be happy.
MG> Touch my cashews and they'll find you in a shallow grave as well.
MG> Did you notice that no one ever picks out the peanunts?
That and those nasty little dried beans they put in the trail mix. BLECK!
It's a plot. One kid eats all the apricots, one eats the nuts (except the
aforementioned), and one eats all the pinapple.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... When is human nature so weak as in the bookstore? -- H.W. Beecher
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:48:45
EID:b2ad 22219600
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cab1d0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 e5926ad4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
Gt>> Oh, no! I just got the newest mIRC, too, and I wanted to wander in.
Gt>> But I can't think of a cute cat name that won't get me into trouble.
Gt>>
DC> So, what's wrong with 'Catpooh'?
I was thinking "KittyPooh". . .or "PussyPooh" maybe. IF I ever have the
time to get this STUPID IRC figured out.
DC> BTW, I think I have the recipe for Cat Poop Cookies. Makes
DC> great Holloween treats...
Well, with four cats I have plenty of cat poop. Send it on.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Just say "NOOOOOOOOOOOARGHhhhhhh..." to Cthulu.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:50:02
EID:218e 22219640
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cab1f9
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3e30d62d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
ML>> Appleton, like you, is merely a verbal speed bag. Now, go back
ML>> to playing with yourself, boy.
Gt>> Are the English allowed to do that?
DC> Only after tea and strumpets.
The strumpets must not be too good over there, if the men still have energy
to play with themselves later.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I try to make everyone's day a little more surreal.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Equal rights
|Date: 01 Jan 97 18:50:38
EID:abdc 22219640
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cab320
REPLY: 1:261/1137.0 32c7c1de
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Don!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Don say to Gwenny:
MG>>> Drinking bourbon is kinda like having a glass of iced tea....and then
MG>>> fidning a dead cockroach in the bottom.
DM>> At least with the bourbon, you know what killed the roach.
GTP>> You know, I get the feeling that Dr. Lepzieg is outnumbered.
DM> If he catches you spelling his name that way, you will
DM> HOPE that he is.
Hey, I suffered a momentary Glodbreg, it won't happen again. (I think I
was trying to post that while holding Robby.
DM> Actually, though I haven't had any hard liquor in years,
DM> I enjoy it all--scotch, bourbon, rye, Irish, gin, an