God Damned Fundies!
|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ?
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:28:05
EID:8d62 22264b80
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d111b75
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32CC929F
Hello Ronald!
Ronald Vass wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
[replying to your incredible tactless guesswork concerning
Michael's sick wife]
MM> You really are a vicious jerk, aren't your?
RV> Can't appear to be sucking up to Mike, now can I?
RV> Or was it the posible happening to someone other then Mike
RV> himself that grab your chain. ie:his wife.
RV> If I've step over the line, I'm quit sure Mike will gladly,
RV> with great finesse and pose, knowing of his literary style,
RV> cut me down to size, and boot my ass over the fence.
RV> It will also be { his }-Right- to do so.
What 'grabbed my chain' was your naked cruelty - but then you
actually (unwillingly?) gave your motive away in another msg:
RV> I will await with baited breath, for the evidence of a soul.
This is only too true. BAIT is your prime mover, and SOUL seems
to be an alien commodity to you... regardless of how much you
hurt your correspondents. I will bet 'Empathy' and/or 'Draw the
Line' is not embroidered on any of your shirt pockets.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:08:21
EID:995d 22266900
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d111b71
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf75bd
Hello Gwenny!
Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Sue Armstrong:
SA>> his consistency, and from what Becke has mentioned, I can't see any
SA>> evidence at all that he does NOT mean what he says when he spouts
SA>> his vitriol about peoples he seems to hold responsible for his own
SA>> failings.
SA> Yes; and notice her personal opinion of him isn't very high,
SA> either.
GtP> You know, everyone got pissy because Sean was posting about
GtP> Becke when she wasn't here to defend herself. . .even though
GtP> she was over in IRC where Sean couldn't defend HIMSELF. .
GtP> .and now I have posted a half dozen times that he is gone
GtP> and, therefore, cannot defend himself. Don't you think
GtP> it's time we just dropped this??
Would be an extremely good idea. The former 'lovers' could go
on with their separate lives, and Sue could emigrate to
North Korea (where the climate is balsamic and every person
has a deciding say in EVERYTHING - Bon voyage!).
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:26:25
EID:4dc1 22266b40
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d111b76
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf8a9d
Hello Gwenny!
Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Fredric Rice:
FR> Because you disagree with David about bone structure doesn't
mean
FR> that everything he says is subject to opinion.
GtP> Everything everyone says is subject to opinion. I
GtP> figure David's just mad cuz I wouldn't come and show him my
GtP> tits.
I am not too sure... he might actually be intimidated by the
possibility that you would spray Oxytocin all over him :-)
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:29:43
EID:d313 22266ba0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d111b74
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf911c
Hello Gwenny!
Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Dave Hamilton:
MM>> Yes, I have eaten fresh home-made pasta - in a friend's house
MM>> - and she is as proud and enthusiastic as you seem to be.
MM>> Sorry to admit I still find it rather blah on it's own - about
MM>> as exiting as 'a nice bowl of oatmeal porridge' :-)
DH> Hey, watch it! Where I live, at this time of year porridge is
DH> attractive. It's food AND heat.
GtP> Good. Someone else who likes oatmeal.
Honestly, how CAN you? On the reverse side of wall paper, fine.
As poultrices on the legs of sick horsies, fine. But in your
mouth, yech!!!
This is one kind of calories I would rather starve than eat.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: xtian snobbishery
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:40:12
EID:39d3 22265d00
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32d138fc
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf8242
Gweeny Poohpooh saith:
GtP> Why should I feel anything.
Why shouldn't you feel anything. Sounds like you DO feel something.
GtP> idea of alcohol being evil is a somewhat recent
Oh? You just admitted you don't know scriptures too well.
GtP> where else would they store it besides the food area?
Uh, how about in the sanctuary itself, like a bottle next to every
hymnal.
BS> roles, the gay community?
GtP> About time.
About time? "Some" have been doing it for centuries.
You seem to be awfully wet behind the ears.
BTW, I meet sarcasm with sarcasm.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
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|From: Satan
|To: Arthur Barnes
|Sub:
|Date: 04 Jan 97 12:00:23
EID:d7c9 22246000
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 cfa77277
REPLY: 1:106/7315.0 32ccf274
Wasn't it 02 Jan 97 when "Arthur Barnes" wrote to "All"?
So, Arthur... you said...
AB> You know, Christians really get to me sometimes. This
AB> morning, some preacher guy was on and he decided that
AB> Christians needed to relook at what holiness means. He was
AB> way off... I forgot where the word came from, but it
AB> originally meant (well Holy did anyway) "other". It had
AB> nothing to do with morals and how good someone was. I laughed
AB> the whole time he talked!
Christians are one of our greatest sources of comedy ;-)
From the quill of Satan...
... Decaffinated coffee? What the hell's the POINT!?
--- PPoint 2.02
* Origin: Satan challenges God to show His face! (1:134/67.666)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Scientific appreciation.
|Date: 05 Jan 97 07:11:10
EID:4e55 22253960
MSGID: 1:207/212 305e28d4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ca6cf4
On (01 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Laurie Appleton...
RS> Why do you hold a double-standard on corrections between
RS> publication issues? Have you checked to see if EB publishes a
RS> general disclaimer at the front of each edition that both claims
RS> that the current edition replaces previous editions, and
RS> subsequent editions will replace the edition you are reading?
I'd *like* them to publish a retraction from something they published in
the 1960's or 70's. But it ain't bloody likely.
... Purrinoia: Fear that the cat is up to something...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 05 Jan 97 10:34:20
EID:0f8e 22255440
MSGID: 1:207/212 cd67ad59
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cbf703
On (01 Jan 97) Sue Armstrong wrote to Al Schroeder...
AS> I know Becke has off and on been in hard financial positions herself,
AS> also.
SA> So's Paul. But of course, Sean won't see that; he probably thinks
SA> Becke chose Paul simply BECAUSE he's deeply in debt .. a twisted
SA> logic if I've ever seen one.
Being in bad money situations has a strong effect on someone - it can
mess up your judgement completely.
... Heck is a place for people who don't believe in Gosh.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Enlightenment
|Date: 05 Jan 97 18:55:44
EID:d578 222596e0
MSGID: 1:207/212 85b8d846
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32cb3b45
On (01 Jan 97) Doug Lee wrote to Sue Armstrong...
DL> Tho' it's heartening to hear that baldness isn't a factor.
Nothing is really a factor to true love.
... Are "Watch Out For Children" signs birth control ads?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Puget macarena
|Date: 05 Jan 97 10:17:30
EID:58f4 22255220
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32d192b2
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 01115b90
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Fredric Rice, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 02
Jan 97 16:38:08:
sh> Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
sh> I repeat it in case you missed it.
FR> Do you honestly think you're winning brownie points with your gods for
FR> failing to provide _rational_ answers to even the simplest of
FR> questions, Steve?
Stop being evasive and answer the question.
... Fredric Rice's obfuscatory ramblings continue to mystify me
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: Actors & Their Roles for $400
|Date: 06 Jan 97 05:58:38
EID:a565 22262f40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7343f5b9
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d0b024
On Jan 05 13:45 97, Joe Shedlock of 1:116/17 wrote:
JS> Hmmn, I don't know too much about Sonny as a Congressman.
JS> He apparently hasn't done anything really stupid or the
JS> media would have jumped on him.
No, he knows better. He's been under public scrutiny for too
long. As a matter of fact, he was the person who coined the
phrase: "Somebody tell Newt to shut up."
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 01 Jan 97 21:19:16
EID:672e 2221aa60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS@> : So it's good that those children starve to death or are
RS@> : burned to death, according to some Deity you know of? Isn't
RS@> : that cruel?
CP> We may not know WHY it happens, how ever it MUST be for some greater
CP> good or it would not happen.
Why? because some old book says so?
It's fine for children to starve, to be tortured, to be abused, to
be neglected, to die, because it's a happy happy joy joy thing in
the end?
Fuck off and get some humanity.
... "Kid, you and I have got to talk...NOW!" - Aahz
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 02 Jan 97 02:45:38
EID:5ebb 222215a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb4
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32c0c2c4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
LW> Why not pay attention to the best a belief system has to offer rather
LW> than the mediocre and worst parts?
Perhaps because, in the case of Christianity... the adherents seem to
ignore the best parts and concentrate on who they can hurt and
discriminate against, and other such loving pursuits?
Disagree? Okay, fine. Show me a Christian who has absolutely no
qualms with gays, abortions, assisted suicides, sex outside of
marriage, and the host of other "sins" they're so often telling
us of.
Then show us there are enough such people *in* Christianity as a
whole to convince us not to think that a Christian should be
presumed guilty until proven innocent.
I'll wait... but I won't hold my breath.
... "From the author of the best selling horror novel, "The Bible"...."
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 02 Jan 97 08:41:42
EID:6b43 22224520
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb5
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c7f26a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DC> And the TRVTH is what? Iron axeheads floating? A global flood?
DC> Dead men walking? The sun standing still?
NC> The truth is something that has endured like the Bible has,
NC> should at least be considered.
Why? Just because something is old doesn't mean it is worthy
of respect.
... STUPIDITY is NOT a handicap...park ELSEWHERE!
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 02 Jan 97 08:44:22
EID:febb 22224580
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb6
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c8054e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting Nate Cookson to Gwenny the Pooh <=-
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
GtP> Steak stops a beating heart.
NC> Gee whiz, you don't really mean that do you!! All those folks
NC> dropping dead over Big Mac's!!! And to think I had steak last night!!
Are you really this stupid, or are you just pretending very well?
I'm not sure, because your other messages support the first
position.
... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 02 Jan 97 08:46:18
EID:febb 222245c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb7
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c803e4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
NC> Yeppers!!! All living things do respond to outside stimuli don't
NC> they... Emphasis on living... ;-}
GtP> Now, are you going to stop eating, just because of this?
NC> nope not likely... We still have to eat to live don't we...
Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
happy life as a vegetarian.
So apparently, it's okay for you to kill for your convenience,
but not for someone else to do the same thing.
Nice double standard.
... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 02 Jan 97 08:50:38
EID:ee10 22224640
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb8
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32c93044
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
NC> Why must we "prove" God exists? There are many things in life
NC> that "exist" but we don't have the expertise yet to discern
NC> them? Many years ago, no one could prove that a atom existed...
Irrelevant. Far enough back, there was no reason to suspect they
did - and people weren't claiming it. (Note that the earlier
'atomist' hypothesis had nothing to do with atoms as we know
them.)
Severl folks, however, *are* claiming that gods exist. Therefore,
they must be doing so either because they're stupid enough to
fall for fairy tales - or they have some evidential reason to
support the claim.
Fine. Provide the evidence.
Note that this is *not* proof we ask for - but evidence. Simple
enough, right? Unless you are the sort to fall for fairy tales.
NC> Maybe it isn't that God doesn't exist... Maybe it's just that
NC> you can't at this time discern (for what ever reason)
Fine. But you apparently can. So show us the special organ you
use to do this.
NC> You can't see the air.. but that doesn't stop you from
NC> breathing now does it?
Ever heard the term "observe"? What about "evidence"? Nope,
guess not.
MG> done is givne evidence that that god exists. Until
MG> you do, your answers are going to be ridiculed.
NC> I doubt anything said on this echo would prove his existence
NC> to you.....
He said "evidence", stupid, not "proof".
... Feel free to try our primordial soup & salad bar-Biopoesis Restaurant
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 02 Jan 97 09:10:08
EID:582c 22224940
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb9
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32c980a4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DW> You Canucks can't even get winter right. :)
SA> So who wants winter done right? I could do without snow .. :)
Gimme 12 feet. I want 12 feet. ;)
... And in a strange turn of events, the cat was electrocuted
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 02 Jan 97 09:28:52
EID:2527 22224b80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcba
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32c980b8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SA> Frankly, I don't see the point in "open" marriages. If both (or
SA> one) agree to run around, then why bother getting married under ANY
SA> ceremony, religious (of any faith) or civil?
How about this?
I commit to loving, to caring for, to supporting, to nursing,
to all the things, little and big, one does for a spouse. That
is why I marry her; to show her that commitment, and to make
it real for myself; not just a fun thing that will vanish at
the first signs of trouble.
That I can, or she can, have other sexual liasons is then a
matter of simply whether we choose to add an element of spice,
of curiosity, of exploration, to our love lives.
(Shouldn't have said "I" and "our"... I ain't into the marriage
thing, personally... but I can understand its appeal for some,
even in the open marriage variety. ;) )
... "Whatever gets her whinny[sic] ass through the night." - Jim Staal
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: False Christian Scum [1/2]
|Date: 02 Jan 97 09:35:46
EID:4db3 22224c60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcbb
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32c980b9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SA> It isn't. Debunked. And I'd like to know from others on this echo
SA> who had to have themselves "proven" to be the better qualified
SA> simply because they were white.
Better qualified? Don't know about that, but...
Canada has, supposedly, a set of laws that require "no discrimination"
at least based on, race and/or gender. Take a trip down to your
local Employment Canada office sometime and read the boards.
There are endless jobs there which state, as part of the
requirements, that the applicant be female. And no, I'm not
talking live-in nurse, I'm talking, say, receptionist.
Fine; there are some jobs which are exclusively male-oriented,
too. Most of the warehousing jobs want big, husky men, and
the idea of a woman applying, as a rule, is... regarded as odd.
Now go look at some of the "goodies". Need to brush up on your
skills, maybe with a computer?
If you're a woman - there are programs.
If you're native - there are programs.
If you're disabled - there are programs.
If you're white male - Why aren't you out working, instead of sponging?
It's about the only thing that really ticks me with our governmental
setup. When they pass laws saying you can't exclude people based
on gender or race, and then tell a woman she can't apply to this
job, or a man he can't get that training... it is infuriating.
Mostly these balance, as I noted with the jobs. But with the
training programs, in my experience - if you're a white male,
forget it.
SM> extra jobs for women, minorities, the handicapped, and all the other
SM> protected groups you leftists cook up from time to time are going to
SM> come out of corporate profits? Surely you jest.
SA> ALL jobs come out of corporate profits. That's where PAYROLL comes
SA> from; no profits, no employees.
Much as I hate to... I'm going to *almost* agree with his point
here. If you bring umpteen million women, or others, into the
workforce, many of them will fill jobs that were previously or
would have otherwise been filled by men.
Is this bad? No. But his point seems to be exactly that - that
the more "others" in the work force, the less jobs going to the
white males.
The downside to this, of course... the reason white males are
hired less and less often for those positions... is simply that
ofttimes, you can pay a woman or a minority or a "gimp" less.
So the women and others are getting the jobs - and often
getting jobbed. ;)
SA> Oh? So no white male was ever a bumbling idiot on their job? No
SA> woman, minority, or handicapped person was ever better qualified
SA> than a white male?
One wonders what he thinks of Hawking? Surely the ultimate
example of just what a disabled person can still accomplish. ;)
... Ceci n'est pas une tagline.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: False Christian Scum [1/2]
|Date: 02 Jan 97 09:52:48
EID:4db3 22224e80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cefcbc
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32c980bb
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SA> Yawn. Big fat hairy deal. We also are required to have Social
SA> Insurance Numbers if we want to work here; citizens and landed
SA> immigrants alike. And anything about a SIN card holder can be found
SA> through their number; when you sign an application form, or put it
SA> on your resume (as IS required),
Excuse me????
Every employment office I've ever encountered has told me exactly
the same thing: the only time the employer needs your SIN is
*after* they have hired you, so they can deal with taxes and such.
SA> they can indeed check up on you if
SA> they so wish. You're even required to give your SIN if you want a
SA> movie rental card,
Not at any place I've ever been. Photo ID, yes, but never SIN.
SA> I doubt your motives. You are afraid to breed because of your
SA> supposed "disability" (and baldness ain't a disability), and so
SA> resent others for breeding, and wish them to stop because it bothers
SA> you.
I'm with him. As far as I'm concerned, about 60% of the world's
ills could be at least lessend drastically if people didn't
insist upon knocking each other up like some sort of demented
mink breeding gone wild.
... Never fold with an inside straight line like that. -- Marty Leipzig
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Kelsey Bjarnason
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 04 Jan 97 22:26:12
EID:dd0d 2224b340
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32cefcb4
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ceda2c
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Kelsey Bjarnason to Lee Woofenden:
KB> Disagree? Okay, fine. Show me a Christian who has absolutely no
KB> qualms with gays, abortions, assisted suicides, sex outside of
KB> marriage, and the host of other "sins" they're so often telling us
KB> of.
That was supposed to be the ideal presented by the story of the
woman caught in adultery. Jesus as a perfect being was ostensibly
free of the need to judge others.
KB> Then show us there are enough such people *in* Christianity as a
KB> whole to convince us not to think that a Christian should be
KB> presumed guilty until proven innocent.
I doubt that can be done. One of the subtleties of Christianity is
that while there is no mechanism of a pathway of growth to enlightenment,
there is opportunity for anyone to be struck by a bolt of wisdom. I
just haven't ever seen it happen.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 04 Jan 97 23:36:10
EID:11f4 2224bc80
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 018be520
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ceea0a
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Fredric Rice to Dave Hamilton:
RS>> And I bet even the OED definition STILL means without a
RS>> belief in a Deity.
dh>> "atheism /n. the theory or belief that God does not exist."
FR> That definition is pretty inaccurate.
I agree. Just scooped the lonly def. out of the OEd for
Richard. It would befittig for the perspective normally
adopted by fundies.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 05 Jan 97 07:46:14
EID:43b5 22253dc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cfb2a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 03 Jan 97 15:47:26 Martin Goldberg wrote to Al Schroeder...
MG>> I cannot argue something for which I do not believe and have
MG>> presented a very tenuous scenario. It just seems to me,
MG>> that if I am wrong, and the soul real, then it would not be
MG>> attached to us in any way.
If that were true, there would be no ugly people alive.
At the first look in the mirror, their souls would flee.
Regards,
-=John=-
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: He Come de Judge
|Date: 05 Jan 97 07:59:52
EID:e0dc 22253f60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cfb2a1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 03 Jan 97 10:03:02 Al Schroeder wrote to Dan Ceppa...
DC> Your dogma statse that if you screw up, just a bit, you go
DC> to hell.
AS>
AS> Yeah, but He judges about the "little bit". We're not sure (at
AS> this point) whether he's a lenient judge or a strict one.
Since yer god is omnipotent, omniscient, omniverous, and other stuff
including all-knowing, he already knew every dirty little secret, every
lustful thought, every yield to temptation, evry transgression that you
ever even considered - long BEFORE you were even born.
Therefore, what's with this judgement nonsense? Either you myth-mongers
enjoy putting fear of a court appearance into into the minds of the
timid and gullible, or yer god is a psychopath who enjoys terrorizing
the inhabitants of his little ant farm.
We need only look at how 'christians' treat others to see that they take
the prospect of a future judgment about as seriously as they observe the
golden rule in business transactions, on the freeway or in a supermarket
lineup.
Regards,
-=John=-
--- wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: The Virgin Susie
|Date: 05 Jan 97 11:00:34
EID:564d 22255800
REPLY: 1:3603/210 18922814
MSGID: 1:229/622 32cf8a81
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RC> On the bright side, at least sanity is -- if still a minority
RC> position -- at least a more strongly and commonly held position
RC> than throughout most of human history.
Leading us to conclude that it lacks its own inertia. Moderation
is a term that has always implied thought-and-response to me, but
in this forum "moderate" means "not-true."
As long as the majority people continue to think, we're in
pretty good shape.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 04 Jan 97 20:34:32
EID:df0b 2224a440
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cfd787
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DW> I don't expect anyone to like Heinlein (or any other writer)
DW> but it irks me to no end to hear opinions that can be shown to be
DW> untrue simply by reading Heinlein while awake.
Applause from a fellow fan. ;)
... Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific theories.
|Date: 04 Jan 97 20:47:08
EID:973f 2224a5e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cfd788
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 8888c1b3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
SS> One human skull in the same geological strata as a
SS> dinosaur would falsify evolution, knucklehead.
LA> That would do NO such thing, of course. It is not
LA> possibly to "FALSIFY" something that has been declared to be
LA> a FACT is it?
It wouldn't invalidate the process, but it would certainly
invalidate many of the conclusions drawn from the apparent
agreement between the theory and the evidence.
LA> Besides that evolutionists would simply talk
LA> about, "Reworked specimen", or a "stratigraphic leak" or "it
LA> fell in a crack" or simply a "tiny mystery" that will
LA> doubtless be "explained" eventually anyway!
If it was shown to be a bad specimen, then it was a bad
specimen, and means nothing. This is a problem for you?
SS> Now, tell me in your own words why evolutionary theory
SS> is not a valid scientific theory.
LA> Because it cannot be falsified.
Excuse? Why not? Sure, you can't invalidate the process, but
the theories?
... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Kelsey Bjarnason
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 04 Jan 97 21:07:04
EID:febb 2224a8e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32cfd789
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cd063c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting Nate Cookson to Jason Harmon <=-
NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""
QF> But, so does a hamburger.
NC> Baby doesn't have much say in it.
JH> Does the cow have a say in it?
NC> you put cows on that same level you put humans?
Reread the salient points, as listed above, again.
... "Please don't be blinded by the truth!" -- Mike Salva (to David Rice)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 06 Jan 97 00:41:14
EID:4eee 22260520
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73330537
MSGID: 1:229/622 32d04aa9
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
RS>>> And I bet even the OED definition STILL means without a
RS>>> belief in a Deity.
DH>> "atheism /n. the theory or belief that God does not exist."
JH> THAT is in the OED?
JH> Sounds more like Merriam Webster's.
It is, as the only definition, and it does stink, and i've got
four replies on it (as if I wrote it).
I shall write to their review board and see what I can start.
Looks to me that it works perfectly well if you're an
Anglican clergiman.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Arthur Barnes
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:10:38
EID:1429 22260940
REPLY: 1:106/7315.0 32ccf275
MSGID: 1:229/622 32d0510e
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Arthur Barnes to Bill Forseth:
AB> Todays education system does suck. I failed algebra 1 twice! Not
AB> because I'm stupid, I excel in all my other subjects.
Of course.
AB> The first
AB> time, I had a really incompetent teacher who ended up being fired at
AB> the semester. Everyone in that class failed at least once.
Ah, the instructor. And you didn't learn how to pass anyway.
AB> EVERYONE. When they got a new teacher, I passed. The second time
AB> was during summerschool. I had a decent teacher, but they taught us
AB> out of the same book (stupid Saxon book). The reason I failed that
AB> time was because they tested us with the Texas State Credit By Exam
AB> test. There were things on that test that weren't in the book.
Now the book. Don't they expect you to read anything but one
book, or to take responsibility for passing courses yourself?
AB> I decided the
AB> school can go screw itself because I'm going to get my credit by
AB> correspondance during the summer. They really need to get their
AB> acts together.
That ought to tell 'em. I'll bet they change their ways after you
do that.
AB> Oh, another thing they did. At the beginning of the
AB> year, we got our scheduals. I got all the honors classes I wanted.
AB> The funny thing is they had me in the advisory for mentaly
AB> challenged kids! I talked to the teacher and she let me go to my
AB> French teacher's advisory.
Quelle surprise. Had anyone met you when they drew this mistaken
assessment of you?
AB> The teacher went and had my schedual
AB> changed because the administration screwed it up the first time.
AB> Can you believe that? I put up with crap like that just about
AB> everyday.
Well, get used to it. Sounds like life in the real world to me.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 04 Jan 97 02:26:14
EID:3a4a 22241340
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32d0ace8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
-=> Quoting DAVID RICE to DAVID WORRELL <=-
DR> I cannot imagine how this thread is in any way productive.
That depends on how you define productive.
>GtP> At least she isn't lying around at home whining
>GtP> about her love life.
DR> Hey! I resent that!
Be careful - you might get labelled as a small-dicked misogynist.
... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:44:06
EID:44e2 22268d80
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf0f78
MSGID: 1:229/622 32d13afc
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KD>> That "one" doesn't have any rights yet because they're not born yet.
KD>> It's that simple. Birth is the beginning of rights.
NC> This kind of logic is so stupid it's pathetic! Accoriding to
NC> this 5 minutes before it's birth, it's not human.. but as soon
NC> as the baby makes it out, it's human!! So what happen at that
NC> moment of Birth that made it more human than just before it was born?
Listen, YOU'RE the one who wants all the laws made. WE didn't
say they weren't stupid.
Did you read about the case near Ottawa in the last couple of
months where the woman shot her unborn fetus in the skull, inside
her womb, a day before birth?
It was tossed out of court. She was charged with attempted murder
but it was a simple formality, and the law was not challenged. It
states very clearly that the fetus was not a child.
It is because we have black-and-white lines at the insistence of
folks that believe we must have laws for everything that a case
like this has no room for negotiation.
The child survived, BTW.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:50:50
EID:3302 22268e40
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf120c
MSGID: 1:229/622 32d13cb1
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Nate Cookson to Martin Goldberg:
NC> I posted some information, studies are just begining in the area
NC> abortion and breast cancer. this should at the very least be
NC> "discussed" along with any other topic...
You posted no such information. You posted what is claimed to be
a review of existing literature by an unknown researcher. You did
not post your sources. You did not post enough information that
would give anyone a way to follow it up.
When considered with the rest of your postings, also unreferenced
and unfounded, your posting looked like the usual pack of lies
that drives honest people away from the church.
Folks that are honestly seeking answers to spiritual concerns
are often not willing to trade their integrity for lies in the
fashion that you have done.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 06 Jan 97 18:42:38
EID:5d54 22269540
MSGID: 1:229/622 32d147e5
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Carl Pollock to MARTIN GOLDBERG:
CP> MG@> We don't want bible quotes. We want to know spcifically why
CP> your god MG@> starves innocnet people to death.
CP> And how do I prove this point with out quoting bible text?
Nobody asked you to prove anything. Just tell us why God
starves innocent people to death. Do you know?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Robertson & Mobutu
|Date: 04 Jan 97 12:55:46
EID:4782 222466e0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 03e2fd57
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:57:59 -0700
from: AMERICAN.ATHEISTS@listserv.direct.net
Subject: [Atheist] AANEWS for November 7, 1996
MOBUTO-ROBERTSON ~~ A CHRISTIAN ''DANCES WITH DICTATORS'' SAGA
The Chaos In Zaire Highlights Links Between Televangelist
Pat Robertson And A Thuggish African Dictator
**
When the "soft money" scandal linking President Clinton and the
Democratic National Committee to foreign interests like the powerful
Riady family hit , the media all but ignored similar ties involving
powerful televangelist Pat Robertson. While Robertson's Christian
Coalition was calling "foul" over a Buddhist temple fund-raiser which
funnelled money into DNC coffers, few people realized that Robertson's
International Family Entertainment, Inc. was a partner with the Riady
Family, the Indonesian dynasty which runs the Lippo Group, to market
television programming in China and other Asian countries. Now,
Robertson's international connections are once again highlighted due
to the avuncular preacher's links to Zaire's megalomaniac dictator,
Mobutu Sese Seko. To borrow a Christian Coalition phrase, Zaire is
now in "meltdown" following decades of strongman rule by Mobuto, and
ethnic civil war, along with the influx of over a million refugees
displaced by fighting in the eastern part of the country.
If anything, Mobutu is just another example of the penchant of
religious right leaders -- in this case Robertson -- to involve
themselves with figures and causes which represent the most repressive
social and political agendas.
The "Great Leopard"
A former army commander, Mobutu seized power in a 1965 coup and
immediately began to nurture a "cult of personality" around himself.
He ordered schools to replace Christian crosses with his portrait in
every classroom, and he appropriated the title of Mobutu Sese Seko
Kuku Ngfbendu Wa Za Banga, which roughly translated means "the all-
powerful warrior who, by his endurance and will to win, goes from
conquest to conquest leaving fire in his wake.." His promises of
African populism quickly turned sour. A tribal secret police force
was soon jailing and executing political dissidents, and money was
flowing from government coffers into foreign accounts belonging to
Mobutu and his cronies. Bizarre laws instructed the 40 million
Zaireans how to dress, even what names they could use. The Christian
Science Monitor notes in today's edition that "His influence is such
that many Zaireans fear him even when he is thousands of miles away.
A network of spies and secret police keeps residents in the capital
looking over their shoulders when they talk of the 'Great Leopard,' as
Mobutu is known."
Despite this, Mobutu served as a key U.S. ally on the African
continent during the cold war, and attracted the interest of both
foreign intelligence services and the American religious right. For
both groups, the dictator was seen as a check on socialist Angola;
both Zaire and the United States supported the rebel movement UNITA
under the leadership of Jonas Savimbi.
In the early 1980's, Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network was
already a key player in an alliance of business interests,
intelligence operatives and "private aid" networks propping up
"anti-communist" mercenary forces throughout the world, especially in
Latin America. Robertson was rubbing shoulders with this cabal of
freebooters, which included the Unification Church (Rev. Moon), John
Singlaub (World Anti Communist League) and paramilitary outfits like
the Civilian Military Assistance. CBN was beating the drums on behalf
of "contra" efforts in Nicaragua, and groups like Committee for a Free
Afghanistan which backed the Islamic Mujahadeen alliance against the
Soviet invasion of that country, and the Free Angola Committee which
boosted Savimbi.
When the Angolan government reached an agreement with foreign oil
interests including the giant Chevron firm, it was a major blow to
Robertson and the interests who had been using Mobutu and Zaire as a
rebel staging area. In 1986, Robertson was calling for renewed
support of UNITA, and joined with Howard Phillips' Conservative Caucus
to launch a boycott campaign against Chevron. Phillips was still a
Republican operative and was a key figure in the burgeoning religious
right movement, and was already well on the way toward embracing the
extreme Christian Reconstructionist dogmas that he holds today.
For his role in allowing Zaire to be used as a staging area for aid
to Savimbi, Mobutu became a cause celebre for Robertson and the
Christian right. But change was on the way, and with thaw in the cold
war even the U.S. State Department was growing concerned with Mobutu's
strongman rule . On April 24, 1990, Mobutu ("under pressure,"
according to news sources), ended single-party rule and began to
create the illusion of a pluralistic government, first by appointing
opposition leader Etienne Tshisekedi as prime minister, then quickly
replacing him with Leon Kengo.
Robertson stayed involved in Zaire through a Christian Broadcasting
Network outreach called "Operation Blessing," and a less-publicized
venture known as African Development Company. ADC operated a diamond-
mining project and forestry range on one of the government's
concession tracts, part of Zaire's $300 million annual trade in the
precious stone market. And Robertson became more of a mouthpiece for
Mobutu, a fact which prompted Dr. Makau Muta of the Harvard Law
School's Human Rights Program to declare that "Robertson is Mobutu's
biggest American catch."
By 1995, Robertson was part of a network of boosters for the
Zairean dictator which included a group of paid consultants,
religious right activists and intelligence operatives. In August of
1995, Robertson announced efforts to persuade the U.S. State
Department to lift its ban on granting Mobutu a visa, reversing a
policy which had been implemented two years earlier. The Washington
Post quoted State Department sources who insisted that contrary to
Robertson, "Mobutu hasn't changed...What he wants is a transition from
the second Mobutu republic to the third Mobutu republic."
The Post noted that "The long U.S. bill of particulars against him
(Mobutu) includes massive corruption, personal enrichment on a
spectacular scale at his country's expense, indifference to the
physical deterioration of what should be a prosperous country,
connivance at rearming the murderous Hutu militias of neighboring
Rwanda and repeated maneuvers to the frustrate the process of
transition to democracy that ht has promised to support."
A Clinton administration source told the Post that "Robertson's
hand is all over" the visa lobbying campaign. Also helping were some
other operatives with long-standing ties to Robertson groups and the
religious right. They included:
* Paul Erickson ~ political consultant and political director for
the 1992 primary campaign for Pat Buchanan.
* Jack Abramoff, former director of Citizens for America
(bankrolled by drugstore magnate Lewis Lehrman), one of the "private
aid" groups that was part of the Oliver North's operation to aid the
Nicaraguan contras, and a Board Member of "Towards Tradition," a
religious-conservative Jewish group that works closely with
Robertson's Christian Coalition.
Abramoff, like Robertson, was often an apologist for the former
apartheid regime in South Africa. While chairman of the College
Republican National Committee he traveled to South Africa in order to
forge relations with the extreme right National Student Federation.
And he produced the 1989 film "Red Scorpion," supposedly a loose
interpretation of the story of Jonas Savimbi; the movie was financed
in part by the then apartheid government of South Africa.
But Abramoff was involved even deeper in South African intrigue,
especially efforts to prop up the apartheid regime, portray Nelson
Mandela and the African National Congress as tools of international
communism, and support the role of the Inkatha (Zulu) Freedom Party.
Abramoff was involved in the International Freedom Foundation, founded
in 1986 as a Washington "think-tank," but according to some an
overseas asset of the South African National Defense Force and
intelligence service, BOSS (Bureau of State Security). Newsday
revealed that its investigation discovered: "A respectable Washington
foundation which drew into its web prominent Republican and
conservative figures such as Senator Jesse Helms and other members of
Congress, was actually a front organization bankrolled by South
Africa's last white rulers to prolong apartheid..." Involved in IFF
projects along with Abramoff were such Washington heavy-hitters as
Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.), Rep. Robert Dornan and presidential
candidate Alan Keyes.
Chaos in Zaire
Following thirty years of authoritarian rule by Mobutu and over a
decade of efforts by the American religious right to prop-up the
dictators public image, Zaire is in shambles. Inflation has soared by
nearly 100% in the last several months, and "ethnic cleansing" and
warfare is rampant between the Tusi and Hutu tribal groups. A
staggering amount of the country's wealth (one estimate is $10
billion) has been looted by Mobutu, who is recovering from prostate
surgery in Europe.
The human rights "Zaire Watch" charges that Mobutu "has used the
Rwandan refugee situation to prop himself up. His policies have
created serious tensions at the borders between Zaire, Rwanda and
Burundi. He has consistently used people who committed genocide in
Rwanda to destabilize Rwanda for the last year and a half. He has
also contributed to the crisis in Burundi by allowing Burundi rebels
to attack their country using Zaire as their staging base..."
Pat Robertson and other extreme political religious interests in
America may be President Mobutu's last and only hope to retain power,
or even find a place to settle if his regime is overthrown. The Swiss
have granted a passport to Mobutu since their banks hold an estimated
$4 billion of the autocrat's money, but most other European nations
are either lukewarm of hostile on the prospect of extending exile
status to the ailing dictator. He may not even return to Zaire,
preferring to remain at his palatial Mediterranean palace on the Cote
d"Azur in France.
Ironically, some analysts -- and even citizens in Zaire -- see a
Mobutu return as the only way to stabilize the country and "keep the
generals in line." Zaire may disintegrate into tribal provinces.
There is also the prospect of an international military-aid operation
involving French and even American troops; reports suggest, though,
that many Zaireans are resentful of the French who, they say, want to
bolster Mobutu's shaky rule. Regardless of the outcome, the Zairean
tragedy remains a massive violation of human rights, and another
example of Pat Robertson's problematic involvement with corrupt,
authoritarian political interests.
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Crab War
|Date: 04 Jan 97 12:55:46
EID:d130 222466e0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 9527286a
CROSS-POSTED FROM: I_UFO
From: "Ignatius A. Graffeo"
Original Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:17:27 EDT
The large interstellar cloud known as the
Crab Nebula has spawned a galactic army of helmet
crabs. Energy vortices in the area have changed the
frequencies of surrounding black holes into
Virtual Cornucopias. Huge amounts of discreet
ambrosia-like particles have saturated the
coronas of at least 10,000 nearby suns and perhaps
10 times as many planets. This species of crab is
said to be malignant, as opposed to the horseshoe
variety. The latter being a harbinger of good luck.
There are omninous signs in the Milky Way which
coincide on November 28. The Virtual Cornucopia
will spew millions of baby crabs on our own solar
system, thus darkening the Earth's skies for an
indeterminate amount of time. Many of the soft
shell varieties of the nebula crabs have been
described as the same species that invaded Zeta
Reticuli-2, millions of years ago and WNBC-TV
just last week.
Early warning signs of crab nebulae infestation
include mild headaches, sneezing, coughing,
vomiting, itchyness in the pubic area, shortness
of breath, a desire to shoot one-self in the foot
and loss of long-term memory. Not all of the
symptoms will manifest, but at least eight of them
will. Advanced stages of infection make the victim
easily open to suggestion, especially to apocalyptic
warnings, invasion by reptilian hordes, a "crabby"
disposition, uncontrollable appetites for crawfish
and a tendency to bite off the heads of other
infected individuals and suck out their brains.
It is this self-eradicating aspect of the disease
that leaves scientists optimistic about a cure. But
unfortunately for the victims, the final stages
of the infestation can be quite gruesome.
CENTER for CRUSTACEAN CONTROL
Crabokia, Croatia
Visit the WAY STATION
http://members.gnn.com/newspirit/station.htm
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Crackpots
|Date: 04 Jan 97 12:55:46
EID:26d6 222466e0
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 50d60764
CROSS-POSTED FROM_ I_UFO
From: "Francisco Lopez"
Original Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:17:13 -0500 (EST)
From: ns@laban.astro.uu.se (Nils)
Organization: Uppsala University
Methods of Dealing With Crackpots:
=================================
1) Ignore them.
2) Sympathize. "I once believed that the sun orbited the Earth, but
the Big Bad Scientific Establishment crushed me"
3) Suggest alternate venues. "I don't know enough to criticize, but
you might want to talk to my good friend, who you can reach at
someone@unknown.edu, who'd just _love_ to hear about your ideas..."
(Note that "someone@unknown.edu" should NOT be the address of someone
you want to remain friends with.)
4) Plead insanity. "No, no, no, that's all wrong. The sun is moved
by Smurfs. You can't see them, because they're blue, and blend into
the sky,..."
5) Send them elsewhere. "I hear Congress is looking for projects
that defy all known science; they'd be very interested in hearing what
you have to say."
6) Dazzle them. "Oh, I see, you've resurrected the
Mitscherlich-Obermenschen-Mayer theory. You know, there was a very
interesting article in Scientific Bulgarian, sometime during the
1950s, or was it the 1960s, about the very same thing. If I remember,
though, they had to take into account the Terching-Quidley effect,
which you've neglected. You might want to read it; they come to the
same conclusions you do..."
-> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com
-> Posted by: Francisco Lopez
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Islam Unbound & Uncovered
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:9e88 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 b02dee2f
Ä Area: P_News ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Odin@netline.net Date: 01-02-97 20:55
Subj: PNEWS: A Review: "Islam Unbound & Uncovered"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: WELCOME 1997!
Subject: PNEWS: A Review: "Islam Unbound & Uncovered"
[*********PNEWS CONFERENCES************]
From: elazar
[Posted here in compliance with the FAIR USE DOCTRINE for educational
purposes. Not for commercial use. PNEWS recommends the
Jerusalem Post as an excellent and credible source of current information
and opinion about the Middle-East. Jerusalem Post January 2, 1997
Jerusalem Post Literary Supplement]
A...... "Religion Of War"
The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad
to Dhimmitude, by: Bat Ye'or. Translated from the French by
Miriam Kochan and David Littman. London, Associated
University Presses, and Cranbury, NJ, Fairleigh Dickinson
University Press. 522pp. Price not stated.
A Review by..... Dr. Mordechai Nisan
The examination of Muslim/non-Muslim relations in
Middle Eastern history since Islam's appearance is
a vast, complex, and controversial undertaking. The
subject has drawn the attention of Bernard Lewis,
Norman Stillman, Daniel Pipes, and other historians,
whose researches have opened up new vistas to probe
the problematical and precarious lives of Jews in Arab
lands. In the same domain of study, but from the Christian
perspective, scholars who represent their own national
minority communities have made valuable contributions:
Walid Phares writing on the Lebanese Christian Maronite
collapse, Vahakn Dadrian probing the Armenian genocide,
and Selim Naguib exposing the persecution of the Copts
in Egypt.
From another angle, the scholarly interpretation persists
concerning the "Golden Age" of (mythical or historical)
Muslim-Jewish symbiotic cultural flourishing in the
Middle Ages, this under the tolerant disposition of
magnanimous Islam toward its Eastern neighbors. The
recent study by Mark Cohen (Under Crescent And
Cross) argues this view, an interpretation that cannot be
bypassed, nor one that can be accepted as the ultimate
and complete validation of history.
This new book by Bat Ye'or, a sequel to her 1985 work
(The Dhimmi), is a bold exposition of Christian decline
under Islam in the Middle East, and fits the category of
revisionist historical scholarship. Its 10 chapters of
narrative history and 175 pages of documents comprise a
challenging discourse that weaves together the doctrine of
Islamic jihad and the tale of Muslim conquest, culminating
in the diminution, subjugation, emasculation, conversion,
massacre, and deportation of the indigenous Christians
who came under the rule of Muhammad's faithful.
The record of history is stark and cruel in describing the
slaughter and enslavement of Christians, from Syria to
Sardinia, from Bagdad to Bosnia, from Arabia to Andalusia.
The "sword of Islam" served the Muslims - first the Arabs,
later the Turks and Persians - in the unfolding drama of
conquest and rule. Churches were turned into mosques
and free peoples were demoted into oblivion as wide
stretches of Central Asia, the Orient, North Africa, and the
Balkans were absorbed into dar el-Islam (the realm of Islam)
from the 7th century to the 17th.
Dhimmitude is the Arabic-root term to identify the dehuman-
ized condition of Christians and Jews under the humiliating
domination of Moslem power. It signifies the obligation to
pay tribute, suffer indignities to person and property, and
submit to plunder and precariousness. Meanwhile, Islam
developed its cultural ambience and civilizational treasures,
as Bat Ye'or writes, "in the midst of conquered peoples,
feeding off their vigor and on the dying, bloodless body of
dhimmitude."
The novelty of this book (and of its predecessor) lies in
the rigorous conception of dhimmitude as the natural
consequence of the overarching and permanent structure
of mind and practice inherent within doctrinaire jihadic
Islam. Bat Ye'or has grasped that the underlying foundation
of war and the undying spirit of conquest are central
motifs in Islam. Some 13 percent of the Middle East
population were still Christian a century ago. Today only
some 2 percent are adherents of any Church.
Muslims see it as imperative to overwhelm non-Muslims
wherever and whenever possibile. Dhimmi nationalisms,
like the Greek and Slavic struggles in the 19th century,
certainly the Armenian effort snuffed by the Turks and the
Jewish one battered by the Arabs in the 20th century, are
considered blasphemous violations of the Pact of
`Umar/dhimma that catalyze a renewal of the jihad against
the rebellious native populations of history.
The thesis of jihad-dhimmitude is a compelling equation
of the parameters of power, with the denial of Christian
equality constituting a formidable ingredient highlighting
Muslim superiority. It is something that the Christians
of Bethlehem feel in these days of Hamas-style Islamic
fundamentalism, while the Muslims arrogate to themselves
the mantle of Palestinian authenticity and leadership.
Certainly the Jews of Israel should not expect, were their
political stamina to falter and their state to decay, that
anything but a dismal and unbearable dhimmi fate would
be their tragic lot, and end, in Palestine.
Bat Ye'or, an Egyptian Jewess long resident in Switzerland,
touches on the sad anomaly of the defeated and distraught
Christians submitting to Muslim power in the Middle East,
but also internalizing the base dhimmi mind-set in the lands
of the Christian West. There the psychology as opposed
to the policy of dhimmitude has helped forge a mechanism
of defeatism and opportunism, in particular in Europe.
Submission to oil-rich Arabs and trepidation in the face of
Muslim terrorism have turned the once confident West
into an appendage of Muslim expansion, placing the infidels
in dar el-harb (the realm of war).
It is the goal of world conquest propelled by a religion of war
that is the essence of the Islamic enterprise whenever feasible,
while always remaining the heart of the conviction and aspira-
tion of the "Muslim nation." Muslims may have been grieving
for their victimized condition since the early 19th century,
subject to the indignities of Western penetration, colonialism,
racism, and imperalism; but this image conceals the
reality of an ethic of jihad against the unfortunate Christians
in the past and against the pliant frightened West of today.
Bat Ye'or has painted a gloomy and threatening picture of
dhimmi capitulation to the forces of Muslim and Arab power in
Egypt and the Sudan, in Lebanon and Iraq. And yet the
political discourse of our times fosters obfuscation rather
elucidation of Muslim discrimination and persecution of
Christians, while excoriating past Western aggression and its
lingering guilt-ridden crimes, like American intervention in
Iraq and the Persian Gulf.
When Bernard Lewis wrote a small eye-opening account of
Race and Color in Islam in 1970, it was ignored due to its
independent and politically incorrect, though scholarly,
exposition. Bat Ye'or's The Decline of Eastern Christianity
under Islam, appearing a quarter of a century later, will
hopefully earn its due consideration and recognition, for
it is definitely a courageous work and scholarly work.
Truth may be disturbing, but, as Max Weber pointed out,
the role of the teacher is to present uncomfortable facts.
Elazar
==============================================
"A "PACIFIST," WHO LETS EVIL RUN
RAMPANT, IS AN ENEMY OF ULTIMATE PEACE... tho peaceful"
[YaaKov Fogelman, Jerusalem]
=================================================
This Posting brought to you by: Kevin E: Abrams, The International
Committee for Holocaust Truth, with representatives in Washington
DC, California, New York N.Y., London and Israel, & The International
Working Committee on Homosexuality. Read The On-line version of
The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality In The Nazi Party 1995 at........
FAX: 011-972-6-924-738
"History NEVER Repeats Itself, Man Always Does" [Voltaire]
=================================================
via PNEWS
http://www.applicom.com/pnews/
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Atheist Taglines
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:2b6c 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 d949e832
Ä Area: Taglines ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Thomas Tschoellitsch Date: 01-02-97 12:56
Subj: Atheist Taglines
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
REPLY: .Nisaba writing to Thomas Tschoellitsch:
TT> [SUBJECT: Atheist Taglines]
TT> Does anybody need/want atheist taglines?
.N> Post a selection of the less well circulated ones, I'm always
.N> interested in how the other half lives.
last changed: 17.6.1996 e.v.
*- Dear lord, save me from your followers.
*- The symbol of christianity is the founder killing himself. Think about
it.
*- A good christian doesn`t think - a good christian obeys ! (B. Graham)
*- If more christians read the bible there would be less of them.
*- Being born again increases the chances of birth defects.
*- Who needs a devil when you follow a god like Jehova?
*- Who needs a devil when you have an asshole like Jehova as a god?
*- The christians MUST OBEY their hiarchy and dare to call US a cult?
*- You folks telling me that intolerance is a Traditional Family Value ?
*- If God is omnipotent, why does he need my money ?
*- Annoy a Christian: ask him how many gods he believes in.
*- AIDS is a virus. The church is a punishment from God.
*- Sects, sects, sects - is that all you protestants ever think about ?
*- I believe in Traditional Values ! The earth is flat.
*- The Earth is flat / pi equals three / the Bible says it / so it must
be.
*- The most insidious threat to Christianity : education.
*- Christians: Always willing to lay down your life for their belief.
*- Christianity: Judaism for Windows.
*- Jesus appears at disco; states "I`ve risen and I can`t get down"
*- I admit it, I tried Christianity, but I didn`t inhale.
*- Christianity causes deafness and hair loss when used by laboratory rats.
*- Christianity: celebrating 2000 years of continuous obsolescence.
*- A zoo animal, released, afraid to leave its cage. That`s a christian.
*- I like God. I just don't like his fan-club.
SysOp of ILLUMINA BBS: 0043-316-694168 (Austria), 07-22h, 28.8k, PUS, SWS
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:eef7 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 44a4ecce
Ä Area: Atheist & State/Church seperation Info ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Christopher Baker Date: 12-29-96 07:29
Subj: AANEWS #225
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
from: AMERICAN ATHEISTS
subject: AANEWS for December 29, 1996
A M E R I C A N A T H E I S T S
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn
#225 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 12/29/96
http://www.atheists.org
ftp.atheists.org/pub/
e-mail: aanews@atheists.org
COUNTING DOWN TO MILLENNIUM LUNACY
*****
With New Year's Eve just days away, the arrival of 2000 isn't that
far behind. And everyone from religious groups to mystical crackpots
is already making plans for
The Big One...
*
UNLIKE this coming Tuesday, New Years Eve 2000 promises to be far
more than just another round of drinks, grandiose resolutions, and
maybe watching all those folks in Times Square count down to the
midnight hour from the comfort of your living room. 2000 is a
different kind of party animal, not your typical end-of-beginning-of
yearly bash. It is the end of a century as well as the end of a
millennium. And for a surprising number of diverse groups and
individuals, it is fast becoming the focal point of dreams, wishes,
expectations and dreads. Call it "millennium madness." For lots of
folks, the advent of the year 2000 can be the fulfillment of Biblical
prophecy, the dawn of Armageddon, the ushering in of a new cosmic age.
You can already choose from a number of scenarios, some of them wildly
optimistic and utopian, others replete with Biblical harbingers of the
"last days" and "end times." For some, the year 2000 is a benchmark in
social and political agendas to change the face of the earth, while
for others, it could well be The Beginning of the End. We'll see.
There are a couple of chronological facts, though, that can't be
ignored in any discussion of millennialism. The year 2000 -- or at
least our temporal dating system -- is a human invention. It really
isn't 2000 years since the alleged birth of Christ, in part thanks to
calendric changes and reforms made centuries ago. And there is the
standing argument of when exactly temporal periods like centuries and
millennia actually end and begin. Does humanity's third millennium
begin in 2000 or 2001? There seems to be no agreement on that
question, but as Dan and Gail Collins wrote in "The Millennium
Handbook," well, 2000 seems to have captured the public imagination.
2000 "seems" to be an appropriate time to commemorate the closing of
one block of the human experience, and the beginning of a new stage in
our history.
And 2000 has emerged as the year signifying a point in history
which is supposed to signify the beginning of SOMETHING. Just what
the "something" is depends on who you deal with; but a surprising
range of religious and mystical groups see the year 2000 as laden with
metaphysical, spiritual and even apocalyptic significance. Already a
number of distinct trends have emerged...
* RELIGIOUS UNITY. Despite the proliferation of religious groups
and cults, and the inevitable "turf wars" for followers in places like
Latin America, Asia and the former Soviet Union, a number of major
religious groups are in an ecumenical mood talking about outright
unification or levels of cooperation. Both might be problematic
agendas in terms of history.
The Roman Catholic Church has been conducting a major effort to woo
the various Orthodox branches which broke off centuries ago, as well
as the Anglican Church. Pope John Paul II is determined to live long
enough to shepherd his church into the next millennium, and the
Vatican is sparing no effort in capitalizing on the eschatological
significance of the year 2000. The Church has declared that year to
be a Golden Jubilee, a spectacular religious production where the
Porta Sancta in St. Peter's Basilica will be opened, and all those who
pass through supposedly receive cosmic brownie points in the form of a
"special" blessing. The Vatican is also dragging a slew of
historical artifacts (of dubious authenticity) out of its storage
vaults, including the discredited Shroud of Turin and the Holy Coat of
Trier. The National Heritage Foundation in Italy now estimates that
between 30 and 60 million visitors will be flocking to Rome for the
Jubilee.
Attendance at other holy hot spots -- Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugore --
will most likely soar. And the burgeoning cult of the Virgin Mary
("Marioltry") will draw the faithful and curious to just about any
location where this elusive lady deigns to put in a peek-a-boo
appearance.
Other Christian movements, while still open to the prospect of
ecumenical unity, are using the year 2000 as the focal point for their
own aggressive evangelical outreaches. Last summer's Olympic Games in
Atlanta began a four-year buildup by the AD2000 movement which hopes
to organize a Global March for Jesus. At the Olympics, a number of
Christian groups pamphleted athletes and tourists, refining their
organizing and recruiting skills. The penultimate goal is a series of
mass parades in 2000 cities across the globe with 30,000,000
participants on June 10, 2000.
Religious unity is also part of the agenda of Episcopal Bishop
William E. Swing and his United Religions movement based in San
Francisco. Swing tells supporters that they can "share a vision: that
the religions of the world can come together in prayer dialogue, and
action for global good." United Religions began in 1993 with an
"interfaith service" to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the
signing of the United Nations Charter. Among United Religions' goals
is "a permanent gathering center where the world's religions engage in
daily prayer, dialogue, and action for the good of life on this earth"
and to "establish a world religious structure for global good."
Other religious hope to cash in on millennium fervor as well. A
group calling itself Journey of the Magi plans a "six month pilgrimage
of peace that will retrace the original journey of the Magi," where
participants will ride on horses and camels and attend religious
festivals.
* A SEARCH FOR NEW MESSIAHS
Apocalyptic cults are often structured around the leadership of a
charismatic, authoritarian figure who at times declares himself (or
herself) to be a messianic personality. As noted by New York Times
religion writer Gustav Niebuhr, the approach of the year 2000 with its
many "declarations that a vast metaphysical change will coincide with
the turn of the chronological odometer" has already fueled predictions
of the Second Coming. While mainstream religions tend to hedge their
bets on just when the prophetic biblical time table will begin to
unfold, many newagers are looking for alternative forms of
millennialist fulfillment, and new messiahs as well. There is Barbara
Marx Hubbard's brain-wracking babble about humanity evolving into a
form of "cosmic godhood" where we all, essentially, become deities.
Another equally astounding prospect, though, is found in the cultish
movement centered around "Lord Maitreya," an avatar publicized by
British painter Benjamin Creme. Creme has been drawing large crowds
wherever he lectures, with a fascinating story of the new messiah, a
World Teacher who is about to appear on the stage of human history and
govern with his select handful of "perfected men." Creme informs his
audiences that Maitreya left his redoubt in the Himalaya Mountains in
a "self created" human body, and arrived in London in 1977. Since
then, the avatar has ostensibly been preparing for his "Day of
Declaration" when he will go on worldwide television and, according to
Niebuhr, "teach the building of a new civilization for the benefit of
all."
The Maitreya legend combines artifacts of both western and eastern
mysticism, and borrows from the writings of Theosophist Helena
Blavatsky who mused about reincarnation, telepathy, and a race of
avatars secluded in the Himalayas known as The Great White
Brotherhood. Still another influence is found in Alice Bailey, a
former Theosophist who broke with Blavatsky's doctrines and began her
own Arcane School; Bailey, like Creme, claimed to be in telepathic
contact with "ascended masters", and predicted a coming golden age or
"New Civilization."
* GLOBAL TRANSFORMATION
Early millennialist movements embraced the Biblical notion of a
"New Jerusalem", a social order which would arise in the end times or
"final days" as a perfect, harmonious utopia presided over by the
returned Christ. For Christians and newagers caught up in the present
millennialist frenzy, the New Jerusalem is a transformed earth based
on "new" values and ethics. Contemporary millennialist scenarios
involve such diverse schemes as space colonization, economic reform,
and the creation of utopian societies or subcultures. Many events
planned in connection with the year 2000 are outright fanciful, yet
manage to tap into these enduring metaphors and yearnings. The group
World Action for the Millennium has the goal that "on January 1st of
the year 2000 all inhabitants of the planet Earth will be linked
together to receive and share for one minute a message --expressed in
music -- that can be universally understood as a way to empower the
individual and express his or her belonging to the global community."
Another organization, Megacity 2000, seeks to use the beginning of
a new millennium to promote the use of mega-urban structures as the
"dominant type of settlement for humanity." Meta-Nation 2000 wants to
establish a "meta-nation" in outer space "where human society can live
and work in the new millennium."
DOOMSDAY, APOCALYPSE, FINAL JUDGMENT
In contrast to the utopian, upbeat and dreamy millennialist plans
of certain religious and mystical groups is the "tribulation" segment
of Christians -- and a more difficult to locate smattering of new age
apocalyptics -- for whom the year 2000 is the threshold of gloom and
doom. The Aum Shinryo "Supreme Truth" sect in Japan and the Order of
the Solar Temple are considered examples of the latter, where a fusion
of bizarre religious and mystical ideologies precipitates acts of
individual or organized cultic violence. The Aum cult, for instance,
believed that a series of catastrophes would devastate most of the
world, after which the Supreme Truth would establish its own
government and rule. Some millennium watchers predict that similar
new age style sects, blending a lethal amalgam of apocalyptic ideology
and mysticism, will percolate in the next few years as we approach the
year 2000.
Shockingly high percentages of fundamentalist Christians believe
that the "parousia" or Second Coming will occur in their lifetime, and
that the year 2000 is an important mile post on the apocalypse road
humanity is travelling. Indeed, many fundamentalists are wary of
millennialist calls for ecumenical unity, fearing this as a step
toward a "one world church" colorfully described in books like
Revelation which will be presided over by the Anti Christ and False
Prophet.
A Credulous Environment
Just how widespread "millennial madness" will become is difficult
to predict, but there are indications that public discussion and
awareness of issues such as the apocalypse, or the fruition of other
forms of catastrophic prophecy, is growing. There is a proliferation
of sites on the world wide web related to the upcoming millennium
expressing a range of views. And interest in religious and new age
themes remains strong. Movies, books and television programs deal with
a spectrum of mystical topics, from aliens and ghosts to angels and
"the power of prayer." The rising number of reports about mystical
apparitions (Jesus, Mary) elicits wide media coverage, and often
attract thousands of faithful. Indeed, fascination with apocalyptic
themes or the transformational prospects inherent n the new millennium
are simply part of a wider cultural assault on social values
emphasizing reason, logic and science. Millennialism may emerge as
the dominant irrationalist reaction against the unfulfilled
Enlightenment agenda, as postmodernist society barrels down the
temporal road to 2000 and beyond.
**
About This List...
AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide
movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of
Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and
religion. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to aanews-
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Rpresentative for American Atheists is Margie Wait, irep@atheists.org.
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PATH: 2002/2002 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Yahweh is Enlil?
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:d694 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 0397538f
Ä Area: I_UFO ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Iufo@world.std.com Date: 12-29-96 00:00
Subj: IUFO: Yahweh
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: michael.pell@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
Original Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:48:16 -0500 (EST)
In a message dated Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01: galaxy37@1starnet.com writes:
G> Yahweh is the Crown-Prince Enlil of the Planet Nibiru. Think about that.
G> Beto
Hello "galaxy37",
At first glance En.Lil would look like the prime candidate to be Yahweh
when we do a surface scan of the available material. As mentioned in an
earlier post, Yahweh by definition is an expanded version of the latin YHWH,
which is loosely based on the Hebrew verb "to be". Yahweh is not the Lord's
DIVINE name. He never mentions to us (or Moses who asked Him directly) what
His divine name is. So He could very well be one of the Anunnaki as He fits
the descriptions of what they were said to be like, powers possessed, and
general personality traits, by the Sumerians in their seals and tablets.
Zecharia Sitchin in his most recent book Divine Encounters ISBN 0-380-78076-3
compares what is known of each of the major deities and sees just how close
they might fit the bill as to who (or what) Yahweh is. In his chapter
"Endpaper" he examines closely An/Anu, En.Lil, E.a/En.Ki, Ninurta,
Nannar/Sin, Ra/Mar.Duk, Thoth/Hermes/Quetzalcoatl/Nin.Gish.Zidda, etc. He
effectively dismisses En.Lil as Yahweh through some interesting deductions.
I invite you to read his work if you have not already done so.
No conclusion as to who Yahweh is, is really reached. What is known according
to the timeline of discovered physical artifacts from Sumerians until the
writings of the Bible are;
1 - Yahweh as a major deity is not mentioned in the absolute earliest of
writings discovered in ancient Mesopotamian sites of pre-Biblical cities
that describe the history of man from the time of our "creation" to the
flood, etc.
2 - Yahweh appears much later and is prominent in setting up the "promised
land", and establishing the new faith of His followers. The Old and New
Testaments give us a more indepth look at the deity known as Yahweh.
As mentioned in another post, can Yahweh be one of these Anunnaki?
Could Yahweh have picked up and taken over the "reins" for the dealings
with humanity that were rapidly diminishing as seen by the lack of contact
between humanity and their deities?
Mar.Duk/Ra wrestled for power that was not his by birth rite, but he felt
it was via his father En.Ki/Ptah, whom he felt was cheated of inheriting
the rule from An/Anu because he (En.Ki) was not the first born of An/Anu
and
Antu. En.Ki was the first born son, but of a different mother, thereby not
elligible for inheritence of rule which has to go to the first born by
the ruler and his WIFE. The point is leadership was sought by those that
were not "legally" entitled to it and power striggles among the deities
ensued. Could this pave the way for other deities not binding to rule to
actually come to rule? Could Yahweh have come to prominence in this fashion?
Is Yahweh not Anunnakian but the God of the Anunnaki themselves, the true
creator force?
Is it possible that we are the creation of his creation (the Anunnaki)?
A
third generation level if you will?
Apon a close examination, Yahweh "appears to show up during the establishment
and creation of additional urbanized cultures and societies" He appears
unto
his subjects in the same manner as attributed to the Anunnaki to their people.
Is His Kingdom destined to rule for ALL time or just for now (which would
appear to be "forever" by our dating methods and lifespans)? Or as mentioned
in the past through recorded histories, deities come and go and rule perhaps
for millennia at a time until they move on to other things?
Is it not possible then that Yahweh is the most recent deity to intervene
in
human affairs while the other deities have moved on to other projects? The
deities that were "cast down" may no longer have an active role on Earth.
Who cast them down? Yahweh?
Might Jesus, as a demi-god (half human/half divine) been yet another "test
of the waters" by the divine deity to see if man was ready to worship
their "creator", having moved to more and more "evil ways"?
Having been destined to be wiped out once by the pantheon of gods in the
Sumerian records by a flood, or as seen later, by Yahweh, by flood in our
Bibles, the event was said to never be such the case again. Destruction
by water will not be the case. Fire for round two.
Though we do -not- know Yahweh's Divine name to see if He is indeed one
of
the Anunnaki that we do know of, we know of His presence and the results
of
intervention in human affairs as described in the Bible.
Why His name remains unknown, or why He fails to tell us, is strange in
itself, as though the "knowing" of it would make aware a fact that otherwise
He wishes to have remain unknown. Maybe it is deemed that we are not worthy
for such information, but think about it.....what's in a name?
Obviously something. But what?
Cheers, Mike
+--------------[Amiga Computing in the 9o's]-----[mwp96]-------------+
|Send mail to: /\ tm /\ | |
|Inet:michael.pell@freenet.hamilton.on.ca /| \ /| \ -O- |
|Inet:al744@freenet.hamilton.on.ca /\ / | \ , / | \ | |
|Fido:mikepell@1:244/506 /| \ / | __\_/O\ / | \ |
|- From the Days of E.Din - / | \ / |('_, )_)_,/ | /\/\/\ |
+--------------[*]--------[***]--------------------------[giza]------+
___ Offline Orbit v0.81 (Unregistered Evaluation Copy)
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-> Posted by: michael.pell@freenet.hamilton.on.ca
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|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Satan Taglines
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:c2c9 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 6568c378
Ä Area: Taglines ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Simon Avery Date: 12-27-96 11:50
Subj: SATAN TAGLINES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
SATAN TAGLINES
CM>> Hey! I need some Satan taglines! anyone have any (no files please)??
[Filtered using Tag-O-Matic v.12] Keywords: Satan, Devil
"Bother!" said Pooh as Satan laid his soul to waste.
"Bother," said @F as Satan laid his soul to waste
"Bother," said @F, as Satan laid his soul to waste.
"Bother," said @F, as Satan pointed out the small print.
"Bother," said Pooh as Satan laid his soul to waste
"Bother," said Pooh, as Satan laid his soul to waste.
"Bother," said Pooh, as Satan pointed out the fine print...
"Bother," said Pooh, as Satan pointed out the small print
"Bother," said Pooh, as Satan pointed out the small print.
665: Satan's neighbour...
667: Satan's neighbor...
Bad: Your son's involved in Satanism. Worse: As a sacrifice.
Barney is Satan!
Bother, said Pooh, as Satan laid his soul to waste.
Dear Satan. Give me drugs! (William Bennett)
Easy credit terms available... - Satan
Get thee behind me Satan. I was here first.
God created anchovies. Satan put them on pizza!
Halloween: Satan's Christmas
Hi. I see you've met the Satanic Cat from Hell.
Holloween: Satan's Christmas.
Innocent holiday for the kiddies or a night on the town for Satan.
No...we don't worship Barney! That's worse than Satan!
Oh bother, said Pooh as Satan laid his soul to waste.
Santa scrambled is Satan. Coincidence? I think not!
Satan talks backwards in OS/2 DLLs.
Satanic nurses: Healthcare from Hell. On the next Geraldo!
Since GOD spelled backwards is DOG, is my poodle Satan?
You're just laughing at me because I'm Satan.
"Bother" said Pooh as the Devil crossed Death.
"Bother" said Pooh as the Devil crossed Death.
A Denebian Slime Devil is a tribble built to Klingon specifications.
Alone, adj.: In bad company. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Behave or the Devil will make you read Zmodem docs!
Have you ever danced with the Devil in the pale moonlight?
Heaven sends us good meat, but the Devil sends us cooks.
I sold my soul to the Devil. He gave it back.
Is a parasite where the Red Devils land, then?
Kleptomaniac, n.: A rich thief. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Plug your modem in backwards and hear the Devil's own words!
The Devil falls on account of his gravity.
The Devil finds work for idle glands.
The Devil has three children: Pride, Falsehood and Envy.
The Devil made me read Zmodem docs!
The only evidence that the Devil is real= Jesse Helms & Newt Gringrich.
There ain't no Devil. It's just God when He's drunk. (Tom Waits)
To Devil's Night, my new favorite holiday. --T-Bird.
"Drop the guy with the devil ears." -- NBC, June, 1965.
A dyslexic devil worshipper sold his soul to Santa
A nickname is the heaviest stone the devil can throw at a man.
Alimony - the ransom that the happy pay to the devil.
Altruism is the devil's calling card.
Bad news mom, I sold my soul to the devil. - Calvin
Bunkers are an invention of the devil.
COWS... .
Fatal Error 999: Dyslexic computer possessed by devil.
Hear about the dyslexic devil worshipper? Sold his soul to SANTA.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
In all systems of theology, the devil is a male.
Let's make like an exorcist and get the devil outta here.
Niether give place to the devil. (Eph 4:27)
Old daredevils never die, they just get discouraged.
Resist the devil and he will flee from you
Spam...it is the devil's work!
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
The devil finds work for idle circuits to do.
There is no devil; it's God when he's drunk.
the devils of truth steal the souls of the free
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* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 2002/2002 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: RIC CARTER
|To: ALL
|Sub: Cult Danger Test
|Date: 06 Jan 97 02:33:46
EID:499c 22261420
TID: PX/Win v2.0GY PX96-0455M
MSGID: 1:2002/2002 3f296c05
Ä Area: Magick Echo ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From: Arthur Barnes Date: 01-02-97 04:40
Subj: suspicious groups
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, with all the talk about (I think it was..) Lita's coven (if I'm wrong
don't hurt me) I thought it would be a good idea if they had something
to make sure it was alright.
Enjoy!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings:
In answer to your recent inquiries on the nets, the Advanced Bonewits Cult
Danger Evaluation Frame is:
(1) by me, not about me; :)
(2) in print in my book "Real Magic" (Weiser Pubs) and Margot Adler's book,
"Drawing Down the Moon";
(3) available in ascii form;
(4) may be freely posted with its accompanying copyright info.
I will attempt to include it below.
For information about "my group", A.D.F., contact our Chief Electronic
Information Officer, <>. She has all our basic lit,
up-to-date grove lists, and misc. essays available in ascii.
yours in the Mother,
Isaac Bonewits
Adr./ADF
************************************************************************
THE ADVANCED BONEWITS CULT DANGER EVALUATION FRAME
(c) 1979, 1994 by P. E. I. Bonewits
Events in the last few decades have clearly indicated just how
dangerous some religious and secular groups (usually called "cults") can
be to their own members as well as to anyone else whom they can
influence. Brainwashing, beatings, rapes and murders, mass suicides,
military drilling and gunrunning, meddling in civil governments and
other crimes have been charged against many groups, and in several cases
those accusations have been true. People need a relatively simple way to
evaluate just how dangerous or harmless a given group is liable to be,
without either subjecting themselves to its power or judging solely on
theological or ideological grounds (the usual method used by anticult
groups).
In 1979 I constructed an analytical tool which I now call the
"Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame," or "ABCDEF," a copy of
which was included in the revised edition of my book, "Real Magic"
(Samuel Weiser, Inc., York Beach, ME 03910, $13 ppd) and is reproduced
at the end of these notes. I realize its shortcomings, but feel that it
can be effectively used to separate the sheep from the wolves. Feedback
from those attempting to use the system would be appreciated.
The purpose of this evaluation tool is to help both amateur and
professional observers, including current or would-be members, of
various organizations (including religious, occult, psychological or
political groups) to determine just how dangerous a given group is
liable to be, in comparison with other groups, to the physical and
mental health of its members and of others subject to its influence. It
cannot speak to the spiritual "dangers," if any, that might be involved,
for the simple reason that one person's path to enlightenment/salvation
is often viewed by another as the path to ignorance/damnation.
As a general rule, the higher the numerical total scored by a given
group (the further to the right of the scale), the more dangerous it is
likely to be. Though it is obvious that many of the scales in the frame
are subjective, it is still possible to make practical judgments using
it, provided that all numerical assignments are based on accurate and
unbiased observation of actual behavior (as distinct from official
pronouncements).
This frame can be used by parents, reporters, law enforcement
agents, social scientists and others interested in evaluating the actual
dangers presented by a given group or movement. Obviously, different
observers will achieve differing degrees of precision, depending upon
the sophistication of their numerical assignments on each scale.
However, if the same observer used the same methods of scoring and
weighting each scale, their comparisons of relative danger or
harmlessness between groups will be reasonably valid, at least for their
own purposes. People who cannot, on the other hand, view competing
belief systems as ever having possible spiritual value to anyone, will
find the Frame annoyingly useless for promoting their theocratic
agendas.
It should be pointed out that this evaluation frame is founded upon
a) modern ideas of humanistic psychology concerning the nature of mental
health and personal growth, and b) the author's many years of
participant observation and historical research into minority belief
systems. Those who believe that relativism and anarchy are as dangerous
to mental health as absolutism and authoritarianism are, should count
groups with total scores nearing either extreme (high or low) as being
equally hazardous. As far as dangers to physical well being are
concerned, however, both historical records and current events clearly
indicate the direction in which the greatest threats lie. This is
especially so since the low-scoring groups usually seem to have survival
and growth rates so small that they seldom develop the abilities to
commit large scale atrocities even had they the philosophical or
political inclinations to do so.
=====================================================================
THE ADVANCED BONEWITS CULT DANGER EVALUATION FRAME
(c) 1979, 1994 by P. E. I. Bonewits
Factors: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low High
1. INTERNAL CONTROL: Amount of
internal political power exercised
by leader(s) over members. 1. _____________________________
2. WISDOM CLAIMED by leader(s);
amount of infallibility declared
about decisions. 2. _____________________________
3. WISDOM CREDITED to leader(s) by
members; amount of trust in deci-
sions made by leader(s). 3. _____________________________
4. DOGMA: Rigidity of reality con-
cepts taught; amount of doctrinal
inflexibility. 4. _____________________________
5. RECRUITING: Emphasis put on
attracting new members; amount of
proselytizing. 5. _____________________________
6. FRONT GROUPS: Number of subsid-
iary groups using different names
from that of main group. 6. _____________________________
7. WEALTH: Amount of money and/or
property desired or obtained; em-
phasis on members donations; eco-
nomic lifestyle of leader(s). 7. _____________________________
8. POLITICAL POWER: Amount of ex-
ternal political influence desired
or obtained. 8. _____________________________
9. SEXUAL MANIPULATION: of members
by leader(s); amount of control
over sex lives of members. 9. _____________________________
10. CENSORSHIP: Amount of control
over members' access to outside
opinions on group, its doctrines or
leader(s). 10. _____________________________
11. DROPOUT CONTROL: Intensity of
efforts directed at preventing or
returning dropouts. 11. _____________________________
12. ENDORSEMENT OF VIOLENCE when
used by or for the group, its doc-
trines or leader(s). 12. _____________________________
13. PARANOIA: amount of fear con-
cerning real or imagined enemies;
perceived power of opponents. 13. _____________________________
14. GRIMNESS: Amount of disapproval
concerning jokes about the group,
its doctrines or its leader(s). 14. _____________________________
15. SURRENDER OF WILL: Amount of
emphasis on members not having to
be responsible for personal deci-
sions; degree of individual dis-
empowerment created by the group,
its doctrines or its leader(s). 15. _____________________________
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Low High
========================================================================
Copyright 1979, 1994 by Isaac Bonewits. This text file may be freely
distributed by BBSs provided that no editing is done and this notice is
included. If you have enjoyed reading this "Sharetext" essay, and would
like to encourage him to post more such essays, send $5 to the author
at: Box 72, Dumont, NJ, USA 07628. If you would like to be on the
author's personal mailing/phone list for upcoming publications, song &
lecture tapes, and appearances, send your data to the same address. For
more information about Neopagan Druidism, call 1-800-DRUIDRY or send
$3US (or $4Can) to ADF Info, Box 516, E. Syracuse, NY, USA 13057.
========================================================================
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GY
* Origin: Pacific Online Services ISP/BBS (707.588.0250) www.pon.net (1:2002/2002)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: 2 Paradox [1/2]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 11:13:19
EID:5aef 222559a0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048e7
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Doug Lee <=-
DL> with the hightest sphear which caused the backlash. In the above
DL> senario, if Samual were pulled into a paradox realm,the spirit of
DL> Samual would be pulled away and locked in an Umbral or Dream realm,
DL> with his body lying in a catatonic heap.
SA> Yes, I can imagine worse.
Why am I not suprised?? ;>
SA> In fact, Sam Haight, the Garou
SA> Skinner, is now an ashtray on some Artificer's desk. He was A) A
SA> CoG kinfolk abused by his father who b) Killed a Tremere, ghouled
SA> himself, and learned Thaumaturgy and then c) Learned a Wyrm rite
SA> that basically let him become full Garou by skinning one Garou from
SA> each Auspice - he thus became a "Skindancer" and later d) killed
SA> some Mage, learned Spheres, and stole an artifact sword that allowed
SA> him to use mage spheres without threat of Paradox and e) was finally
SA> overwhelmed in a huge battle against Garou, Kindred, and
SA> who-knows-who else in which his sword got broken and f) The Paradox
SA> backlash was so mighty, having stored up so much of it over the
SA> years that his body was destroyed and his soul turned into an
SA> ashtray.
Yep. The Mage sourcebook refers to legends of paradox storms sweeping
across reality. Clensing the slate. Sort of like the story of Soddom and
Gamora(sp). Fire raining from the sky, people turning into pillars of
salt....... Hey there's a plot device in there. :>
SA> And the peasants rejoiced.
(muted) yeeeeah.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: horsepitals
|Date: 05 Jan 97 15:16:52
EID:6682 22257a00
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048ed
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cd3770
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Ronald Vass <=-
SA> Making a good die roll, Ronald Vass cast horsepitals at Curtis
SA> Johnson .. and all hell broke loose.
RV> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them;
RV> One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them;
SA> I want this inscribed on my wedding ring should I ever get hitched,
SA> (minus the semi-colon) but somehow I don't think it'll fit.
You want that on your wedding ring??
Makes me wonder what the actual ceremony would be like.
Well ok, how about it? If 6/49 came through for you, what would the
ceremony be like??
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Paradox [1/2]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:51:27
EID:5c9b 22257660
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048e8
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cd376a
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Doug Lee <=-
>>> Part 1 of 2...
SA> Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast Paradox at Sue Armstrong .. and
SA> all hell broke loose.
SA> Sorry about taking so long getting back to you on this; with the
SA> holidays and such, it's been difficult to sit down and reply
SA> thoughtfully to all the mail I've been getting, and I didn't want to
SA> skimp on this one, especially since this is one of the more pleasant
SA> posts I've had to respond to in a while.
So I've seen.
DL> You said some time ago that you wanted to know how Paradox
DL> works in Mage:The Ascention. Well I'm feeling alittle bored, so here
we
DL> go.
DL> Paradox comes about when a mage has performed magick that goes against
DL> consentual reality. Reality is defined by what the sleepers (the
DL> general population) as believable. The Technocracy has for the past
DL> thousand or so years molded the population of the world to more readily
DL> accept their paradigm. That science is the only thing that is able to
DL> alter reality. Anything else would go against reality, and therefore
DL> not be possiable. This is why mages always try to work their magick
as
DL> *coincidental* magick. That is, magic which would be believable by the
DL> general population.
SA> Funny. This is basically the reason I've been using to explain the
SA> Delerium.
Oh?
SA> The Delerium, of course, is what humans experience when they see a
SA> Garou in Crinos - their reactions are basically based on their
SA> Willpower (or, as I use it for incidental encounters, a roll from
SA> 1-10.) Reactions range from Catatonic Fear (the human curls up into
SA> a ball, whimpers uncontrollably, and can't remember a thing
SA> afterwards) to No Reaction/Blase - the person is likely Kinfolk and
SA> has no reaction at all to seeing the "monster".
To the person coming up with something that would be more easily
explainable. "No. That wasn't a Werewolf. It was some guy in a fur coat.
Yea. YEA. That's the ticket."
SA> The canonical explanation is that it comes from a race memory of
SA> sorts stemming back to the Impergium - the progrom Garou had against
SA> humans, in order to forcibly keep their numbers down and keep them
SA> from spreading their Weaver-stuff all over the place (lasted until
SA> about 8,000 BC, or whenver it was that the first cities, like Ur,
SA> were established. Certain tribes, like the Children of Gaia and
SA> Stargazers, were instrumental in stopping it.) That's why it's based
SA> on Willpower. (CoG, by the way, according to optional rules re:
SA> Tribal Weaknesses, begin with an automatic 5 on the Delerium Chart -
SA> Terror
SA> because they didn't participate in the Impergium at all. No one can
SA> supposedly score less than 5 around them, as you'd have to add +5 to
SA> whatever their Willpower or Delerium roll is, so doing it that way,
SA> folks would actually be starting at 6 - Conciliatory (person begs
SA> for his life.))
SA> However, I don't like the race memory idea;
No. No I don't think I could go along with it either.
SA> that's best left to the
SA> Mokole (the werealligators, "Gaia's Memory".)
Please. It's hard enough trying to incorperate Werewolves into the three
games we have running. Let's not bring in Werealligators, Werecats, Weretuna
,etc...
SA> Rather, I tend to
SA> explain it to myself as a function of a person's upbringing - how
SA> much of seeing something "outside the norm" can they handle? It's
SA> still basically a function of Willpower, I suppose, but takes into
SA> account individual personality and culture (therefore, I discard the
SA> idea that anyone with Amerind hertiage is automatically immune to
SA> the Delerium - if they've been raised in cities and went to science
SA> class, then by golly, they are NOT going to be prepared to accept
SA> seeing a 9 foot tall man-wolf raging down the street.) If someone's
SA> some sort of crystal-weenie, a fundy who believes in daemons, or
SA> someone who takes the Weekly World News as true and honest
SA> reporting, they're going to be quite able to rank pretty high on the
SA> Delerium Chart. A science PhD, of course, is going to rank pretty
SA> darn low, and will most likely be reduced to a quivering mass of
SA> jelly even if the Crinos just walks by calmly on his way to Trader
SA> Vic's for a nice bowl of beef chow mein with his other peacenik CoG
SA> or Stargazer buddies.
Yea. That ties in pretty good with the idea of concentual reality. I'll
send this by the werewolf ST and see what she thinks of it.
SA> As an example, I had one character (Ghost, a metis Get of Fenris
SA> Ahroun) track down a serial rapist in the Toronto subway system.
"You want which needle in that haystack?"
SA> I
SA> didn't make any stats for the victim; all I did was pre-roll a D10
SA> to see what her reaction would be should she see Ghost go to Crinos
SA> in front of her (so I could say whether or not she curled into a
SA> ball, ran away, attacked Ghost himself, or whatnot). She got an 8 -
SA> Curiosity. So, while Ghost the Not-So-Friendly-Get was smacking
SA> around the rapist (and the Bane that was hanging around him), she
SA> simply ensconced herself behind a post in the deserted station and
SA> watched EVERYTHING. And told CITY-TV News what she'd seen.
Which would result in one of four things:
1) The CITY-TV newsdesk will just shake their heads in sympathy. "Yes. The
experience can be very taumatic. She thinks she actually saw a half-wolf,
half-man creature come to her rescue. Poor dear."
2) The Technocracy would get wind of it. Something abhorant is wandering
around Toronto's subway? Werewolves? Were did *they* come from? This
warrents further investigation. Which would arouse the suspitions of the
Traditions.
3) It would be a given that the Vamp population (either the Prince or some
of the Primogen) would have their own hooks into the media and city police.
Either Vampires or Ghouls would here of this. What do you suppose would
be
the reaction of the Vamp population when they hear that one, possably more,
Werewolves are running around in their 'hood?? :>
4) My choice.... all of the above.
SA> She's
SA> bound to become a bee in the Garou's bonnet before long.
Not just the Garou. Alittle paranoia can go a long way.
SA> Worse, at the last session, an Uktena businessman of sorts (who was
SA> actually born to Black Spiral parents, but was rescued by a Gangrel)
SA> let a BSD corporate facilitator get away from him - and she ran off
SA> across Yonge St in a Fox frenzy. And what do you know .. there's a
SA> reporter and a photographer from the Toronto Sun wandering down
SA> their street on their way to cover some business news. (I didn't
SA> bother rolling for them, because I thought it would be just the
SA> story element to throw in. Heh. "Giant Wolverine Causes Havoc on
SA> Yonge!")
"...Elvis seen giving chase. Story on page 5".
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Paradox [2/2]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:38:26
EID:189b 222574c0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048ea
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cd376b
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Doug Lee <=-
DL> The next interesting question would be.... Why don't Werewolves and
DL> Vamp attract paradox. I have my own theory that we are using. But I
DL> wnat to hear yours. :>
SA> I couldn't tell you about Kindred; don't really know much about how
SA> they work to say from their POV, and frankly, the V:tM sourcebook
SA> doesn't go into any detail about it; it's simply dated and doesn't
SA> have the world background the later games have (it was the first -
SA> what does one expect?) From a Garou's POV, Kindred get their powers
SA> from the Wyrm. And Garou don't suffer backlash because their Gifts
SA> are granted to them by Spirits, whereas Mages simply muck around
SA> with magic on their own, without permission (and Kindred,
SA> presumably, get theirs on loan from the Wyrm, though I'm sure they'd
SA> disagree. Since the Wyrm is a _kind_ of Spirit, well ...) Your best
SA> bet is to ask a V:tM ST as to what they think about their favourite
SA> WoD denizens.
Yep. You've for the most part used the explination that we're using.
From one of the WoD FAQ's:
Why don't (fill in the blank) get Paradox?
Another common subject for debate: why don't Vampires, Werewolves,
Wraiths, Changelings, etc, get Paradox for using their special powers.
There are again several different schools of thought:
a) Mankind subconsciously believes in all these different supernatural
races, so that their magic-seeming powers are thereby "allowed".
b) These races are allied with powerful spiritual beings, that protect
them from Paradox.
c) These races hide themselves from mankind, making their powers more
"coincidental".
The above are the sort of answers that mages come up with themselves.
My favorite answer comes from rephrasing the question: Why is it that
mages get Paradox, and nobody else does? Put this way, one simple
answer presents itself:
d) True Magick is so powerful that it (and it alone) invokes the
extreme backlash of Paradox.
To use an analogy, most supernatural powers are like opening a bottle
with a cork screw. True magick is like opening it with a sledge hammer.
Paradox happens when your hammer slips.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Political Party
|Date: 05 Jan 97 12:07:35
EID:3ac5 222560e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048e9
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cbf6ff
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Doug Lee <=-
SA> Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast Political Party at Sue
SA> Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Representation is chosen directly from neighbourhoods, factories and
SA> other places of work, schools, etc; the idea is the elimination of
SA> the concept of the political party, period. There is no need for a
SA> party, and in fact, parties are known to grossly go against the
SA> wishes of the people. This is what the party I am allied with works
SA> for, NOT centralised production by either the state or a few
SA> individuals.
DL> Well, by the above criteria, said party wouldn't be the PC, Lib,
DL> or even the PQ.
SA> Right.
DL> The only thing that comes close (at least the impretion they want to
DL> give) would be the Reform Party. Tho' I would take it that this isn't
DL> the party you are refering to?
SA> Hell, no. Reform is full of fundy nutters; I wouldn't trust them
SA> with governing a hog byre, never mind the country.
Hey! That's my MP you're talking about..... unfortunatly.
DL> So, if it's not to personal, which party is it.
SA> CPC(M-L).
Umm... Canadian Pacific Corperation??
Who is this?
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: True story. [1/2]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:53:10
EID:c53a 222576a0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048eb
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cbf700
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Marty Leipzig <=-
>>> Part 1 of 2...
SA> Making a good die roll, Marty Leipzig cast True story. at Sue
SA> Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
ML> Do you accept rubles?
SA> Sure! I'll accept Isle of Yap coinage, too, but I don't think my
SA> mail carrier would like that much.
ML> OK, I'll carve them out of pumice, that way they'll still be
ML> bulky, but not so heavy.
SA> Woo hoo! Don't know where I'll keep them - I could keep them out in
SA> the hallway (who'd steal 'em?) but it's only a very NARROW hallway ..
SA> If anything, the possession of weird kinds of currency would simply
SA> be something interesting to have, whether or not I could cash it.
ML> As I mentioned earlier, I need your address again. I'll include
ML> some rubles just for grins.
SA>
SA> Heheh. OK, sounds fun.
SA> S. Armstrong
SA> 570 Church St. #8 (yes, seriously.)
SA> Windsor, Ontario
SA> N9A 4S9
SA> Give it a month, max, to get there; if you don't get it by that
SA> time, give me a call: (519)-253-9123. I sent out a package to Doug
SA> Lee, but I'm not sure if he got it yet.
Oh he got it ok. It arrived while I was gone for the holidays.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 134/67 1 17 153/752 716 920 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Doug Lee
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: True story. [1/2]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 15:07:58
EID:d9ed 222578e0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d048ec
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32cbf700
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Marty Leipzig <=-
>>> Part 1 of 2...
SA> Give it a month, max, to get there; if you don't get it by that
SA> time, give me a call: (519)-253-9123. I sent out a package to Doug
SA> Lee, but I'm not sure if he got it yet.
Yep. I got it. With my thanks.
My next tasking.... How do I get a guest spot in it? :>
SA> Although some people are just hopelessly stupid. I was kept awake a
SA> few nights ago by some woman knocking on doors beginning at 3 am,
SA> and wouldn't let up until 11. I warned her that if she kept it up,
SA> I was going to call the cops; I'm not in a good mood at that time of
SA> the morning. And so I did, but they just gave her a good
SA> talking-to, and she was at it again a half-hour later. Her problem
SA> seemed to be that some guy across the hall had her keys and coat,
SA> and she wanted them NOW.
And you didn't call the cops again? I'm sure they wouldn't have been too
impresed to have to show up at the same place for the same reason.
They would have told her to take a hike, or it's a night in the drunk tank.
SA> Normally, I'd sympathise; but I find people who knock loudly at the
SA> wee hours of the morning completely inconsiderate. After the cops
SA> left, and she started knocking again, she knocked on MY door, asking
SA> to use the phone. I informed her that there was a pay phone next
SA> door at the 7-11. "So?" she says. I told her to go away several
SA> times, and she kept insisting I allow her to use my phone (we were
SA> shouting from opposite sides of my door) because she "didn't know
SA> the number". I told her that 411 was a free call.
A phone book is free as well.
SA> "So?" the reply
SA> comes again, "I want to use your phone!" After this, I lost my
SA> temper, yelling at the top of my voice, "GO AWAY! YOU'VE KEPT ME UP
SA> SINCE 3 AM WITH YOUR FUCKING KNOCKING - I'M NOT INCLINED TO HELP YOU
SA> AT ALL! GO THE _FUCK_ AWAY!"
You're too patient. The cops would have handled it yet again. I might have
been tempted to give her the bums rush... But then I could have seen her
screming assault.
Let the cops give her the bums rush.
SA> She gave up on my door after that, but kept on down the hall (thin
SA> walls - you can hear stuff going on in the hallway from one's room,
SA> although you can't generally hear stuff going on in one room from
SA> another room, unless you or they have the door open.) After I gave
SA> up on sleep, around 7 am, I told her as I came in from getting a
SA> bottle of pop at the afrementioned 7-11 that I would have given her
SA> a damn quarter if she had been considerate enough to wait until
SA> daytime to begin her knocking fest. She said "I don't need a
SA> quarter. I have $10 on me". Now that's REALLY infuriating. Worse,
SA> she jumped my way as I opened the door - I slammed it shut behind
SA> me, locking it QUICK.
A simple bugger off would have sufficed.
SA> She began banging, and even _tested the
SA> doorknob_, demanding I let her use my phone because she wanted to
SA> call the "landlord".
Demanding entry into your home? I would have waved to her as she was taken
away in the paddy wagon.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 22:00:43
EID:986e 2226b000
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d1be250
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 733e20ec
Hello J.J.!
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
DW>> You think cows don't have "beating hearts?"
MM> The poor idiot has still not got it... he believed you
MM> meant that red meat is bad for you - and gave no second
MM> thought to the slaughter (or salughter as they call it in
MM> his local flock) of the cow.
JJH> Hehehe... I've offered to have lunch with Gnat.
JJH> If he accepts I'll be sure to pick either a burger place or
JJH> an asian place where you're never 100% sure what the meat is.
JJH> (waitaminit... this burger has TOES!)
As he surely doesn't keep kosher the better cuts of longpig
might even appeal to him, particularly if it is heathen longpig
... Greetings from Mimi ;-*
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: All
|Sub: Devotional Spam
|Date: 06 Jan 97 08:12:55
EID:4473 22264180
MSGID: 1:123/67 32d0ba61
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
Someone is Spamming my E-Mail with this. Maybe we
could return the favor?
=========================================
T H E J O H N S T O T T D E V O T I O N A L
=========================================
Monday, January 6th, 1997
The Contemporary Christian
by Dr. John R.W. Stott
Part One - The Gospel
Christianity presents itself not as a religion, let alone as one religion
among many, but as God's good news for the world. This implies
that the gospel has both a divine origin (it comes from God) and a
human relevance (it speaks to our condition). In consequence, before
we are ready to ask the question "What is the gospel?", we must
obtain a satisfactory answer to the logically prior question, "What is a
human being?"
Chapter 1 ("The Human Paradox") is an attempt to do justice
to what the Bible teaches and our own experience endorses, namely
the glory and the shame of our humanness, both our dignity as
creatures made in God's image and our depravity as sinners under his
judgment. Chapter 2 then presents what is traditionally called
"salvation" in terms of "Authentic Freedom".
Chapters 3 and 4 handle the central themes of the death and
resurrection of Jesus, which secured our freedom. I try to face first
the five main objections to the gospel of Christ crucified and then the
current denials of his bodily resurrection. I argue that the New
Testament significance of the resurrection of Jesus depends on the
church's traditional belief that it was an event which involved the
raising and transforming of his body.
In Chapter 5 ("Jesus Christ is Lord") we review the
far-reaching implications, for both faith and life, of this seemingly
innocent affirmation. Radical indeed is the discipleship which takes
Christ's lordship seriously.
Chapter One - The Human Paradox
Twice the question "What is man?" (that is, "What does it mean to be
human?") is asked and answered in the Old Testament. And on both
occasions the question expresses surprise, even incredulity, that God
should pay so much attention to his human creation. For we are
insignificant in comparison to the vastness of the universe, and
impure in contrast to the brightness of the stars, even just "a maggot"
and "a worm".(1)
There are at least three major reasons for the importance of
this question.
*Personally* speaking, to ask "What is man?" is another way
of asking "Who am I?" Only so can we respond both to the ancient
Greek adage *gnothi seauton*, "know yourself", and to the modern
western preoccupation with the discovery of our true selves. There is
no more important field for search or research than our own personal
identity. For until we have found ourselves, we can neither fully
discover anything else, nor grow into personal maturity. The
universal cry is "Who am I?" and "Do I have any significance?"
The story is told that Arthur Schopenhauer, the philosopher of
pessimism, was sitting one day in the Tiergarten at Frankfurt, looking
somewhat shabby and dishevelled, when the park keeper mistook him
for a tramp and asked him gruffly, "Who are you?" To this enquiry
the philosopher replied bitterly, "I wish to God I knew."
*Professionally*, whatever our work may be, we are
inevitably involved in serving people. Doctors and nurses have
patients, teachers pupils, lawyers and social workers clients, members
of parliament constituents, and business people customers. How we
treat people in our work depends almost entirely on how we view
them.
*Politically*, it is arguable that the nature of human beings
has been one of the chief points at issue between the rival visions of
Jesus and Marx. Have human beings an absolute value because of
which they must be respected, or is their value only relative to the
state, because of which they may be exploited? More simply, are the
people the servants of the institution, or is the institution the servant
of the people? As John S. Whale has written, "ideologies ... are really
anthropologies"; they are different doctrines of man.(2)
The Christian critique of contemporary answers to the
question "What is man?" is that they tend to be either too naive in
their optimism or too negative in their pessimism about the human
condition. Secular humanists are generally optimistic. Although they
believe that *homo sapiens* is nothing but the product of a random
evolutionary process, they nevertheless believe that human beings are
continuing to evolve, have limitless potential, and will one day take
control of their own development. But such optimists do not take
seriously enough the human streak of moral perversity and
self-centredness which has constantly retarded progress and so led to
disillusion in social reformers.
Existentialists, on the other hand, tend to be extremely
pessimistic. Because there is no God, they say, there are no values,
ideals or standards any more, which is at least logical. And although
we need somehow to find the courage to be, our existence has neither
meaning nor purpose. Everything is ultimately absurd. But such
pessimists overlook the love, joy, beauty, truth, hope, heroism and
self-sacrifice which have enriched the human story.
What we need, therefore, to quote J.S. Whale again, is
"neither the easy optimism of the humanist, nor the dark pessimism
of the cynic, but the radical realism of the Bible".(3)
-------------Notes-------------------------
(1) Jb. 7:17; 25:4-6; Ps. 8:3-4.
(2) J.S. Whale, "Christian Doctrine" (1941; Fontana, 1957),
p. 33.
(3) Ibid., p. 41.
-------------------------------------------
--Excerpted from "The Contemporary Christian", pp. 31- 35, by
permission of InterVarsity Press (USA).
Tomorrow: Our human dignity
=========================================
The John Stott Daily Devotional is made possible by InterVarsity
Press of Downers Grove, Illinois, USA. Please visit their web site at
http://www.gospelcom.net/ivpress for information about not only
Dr. Stott's books but titles by many other biblically reliable authors as
well.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:12:48
EID:6e93 22260980
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d05190
-> On 04 Jan 97 15:37:08, Nate Cookson got back to Martin Goldberg
NC> Exactly my point! Our "technology" hasn't been able to "prove"
NC> His existence yet.... but that doesn't "prove" He doesn't exist.
Do you change hands when you masturabate to make it seem as if
your godling is stroking you?
NC> about, it is very possible that He does exist.... Just like the
NC> many other things mankind will someday discover.
Like the Easter Bunny? Or, what about Rudloph, the Red Nosed
Reindeer?
NC> Face it! Your kind isn the narrow minded and prejudiced...
What are you gonna do? Consign poor little Rudolph off to
hell for not playing reindeer games?
... "And the idiot says in his mind that there is a god." - Styx 1:152
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:18:01
EID:2158 22260a40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d052c9
-> On 04 Jan 97 15:18:32, Nate Cookson got back to Karen Davis
KD> That "one" doesn't have any rights yet because they're not born yet.
KD> It's that simple. Birth is the beginning of rights.
NC> This kind of logic is so stupid it's pathetic! Accoriding to
When was the last time you were pregnant, dipshit?
NC> this 5 minutes before it's birth, it's not human.. but as soon as
Try listening to a persons who has the capability of being pregnant.
The only way you have the opportunity is if you forgot to remove
your thumb and it backed up.
NC> Your logic is not only fautly, it's sick........
A pity that you have shown no logic, just a flat brain wave scan.
... "You appear to be upset because you're stupid and others aren't" FRice
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:21:27
EID:c2ce 22260aa0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d05397
-> On 01 Jan 97 19:01:32, Andrew Masten got back to Martin Goldberg
MG> Where is this evidence.
AM> The primary evidence for a creator is the universe. Just as a
AM> house is evidence of a house builder, this universe is evidence
So, Andy, who created your creator? After all, something had
to have created it, per you argument.
... 5th Rule of Creationism: Lying for the Lord is okay.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:23:23
EID:72af 22260ae0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d0540b
-> On 30 Dec 96 14:39:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Been through there. I only guessing, but do they make Mars
DC> candy there? If so, I really should have taken more time!
JB> Nope. They make bleach and cleaning supplies and mine safety
JB> equipment.
Sounds a lot like Hershey, PA!
... May the Cosmic Star Goat have mercy on his reprobate soul. - Shelby
S
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:28:25
EID:f1d4 22260b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d05539
-> On 02 Jan 97 07:25:38, Lynda Bustilloz got back to Dan Ceppa
LB> Carl and Dan were killing time yakking about Pray Contest:
Milking him as far as I could, fer sure...
CP> By the way, are you a athiest or a thiest? If so, what denomonation?
DC> I am the Spiritual Head of the Atheist Church of the One True God.
LB> That would be the Goddess of Atheism, no?
Of course! I know better than to ask for donations of pies, etc!
However, a nice maiden does not have to wory about bringing
crackers to the bed!
... "For he *is* the Kwisatz Haderach!" -- Alia Atreides
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Quote material?
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:30:29
EID:4ace 22260bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d055b5
-> On 04 Jan 97 15:24:46, Nate Cookson got back to Martin Goldberg
NC> It allows you to label everyone as a "fundy"..
MG> Only those with IQ's equal to their shoe size, Fundy.
NC> Don't look know but your so called higher education is leading
NC> you into major hallucinations, since you don't have a real clue
NC> to my shoe size.
It's obviously smaller than Martin even imagined.
... I don't envy folks unencumbered by ethics, like Nate.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:05:33
EID:0526 222660a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d0ea8d
-> On 04 Jan 97 14:41:36, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
MB> of us keep our old point numbers, as long as nobody has 47. His
MB> Fido address is 1:105/302. Good luck, and it'll be good to share a
MB> "boss" with you again, if you make that decision.
Thanks for the offer, but I'll hang around with Shelby and torment
him for a while. ;) However, I did save those phone numbers,
just in case!
Say "hi" to the gang for me.
... FIRST listen to the missionary. THEN eat him.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Circular Reasoning.
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:26:38
EID:7284 22274b40
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2d4e
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 24-Dec-1996, "Circular Reasoning.")
LA> What I HAVE learned is that evolutionists are an mostly
LA> arrogant, confused, ignorant, conceited, dogmatic "MORONS".
JM> What you were supposed to learn was that continued ignorance,
JM> falsehoods and the utter disdain for reality will be met with
JM> a sharp tongue, since "the rod" won't reach through
JM> cyberspace.
Since it is the evolutionists who continue in their
IGNORANCE, falsehood and utter disdain for reality" then it
was found necessary in a number of states in the USA to
introduce "Balanced Treatment" in schools and Colleges.
The evolutionists were staring at EXPOSURE of their
prostration of science, squarely in the face, but they were
able, with the "loaded" help of "unbiased" judges and
attorneys to avert the day of reckoning with the help of the
left-wing Anti-American organization called the ACLU,
weren't they?
JM> Perhaps we should upgrade that to the "Appleton Law". Those who
JM> do NOT equate science with evolution are the enemies of truth
JM> and honesty.
"Honesty" being defined in advance, of course, (by the
purveyors of the delusion of evolutionism) as that
which gives aid and confort to the evolutionist mythology!
What better evidence do we need other than the admission
of a laeding evolutionist writer who wrote;
"With the failure of these many efforts science
was left in the somewhat embarrassing position of
having to postulate theories of living origins which it
could not demonstrate."
"After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth
and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of
having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption
that what, after long effort, could not be proven to take place
today had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past."
(Loren Eiseley, Ph.D. (anthropology), "The secret of life"
in The Immense Journey, Random House, New York, 1957,
p.199.)
Now isn't THAT delightful!
LA> evolutionists themselves admitted that the Creationists
LA> almost always WON in all those hundreds of open, public,
LA> scientific debates for a decade!
JM> Eldredge also says they won those debates by lying and
JM> cheating. You exemplify that trait.
How strange, and typical that you did not document that?
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Absolute Bigorty
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:27:26
EID:f0e0 22274b60
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2db5
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Absolute Bigotry.")
LA> Can you give one good reson why he would not have said
LA> something just like that?
DR> Because it is:
DR> 1) false
Neither you nor anyone else has so far shown that. The
most you have done is try to muddy the waters, for your own
obscure reasons.
DR> 2) counter his professed stance on the issue
His written professed stance about such matters about
SEVEN years later is NOT necessarily what he believed at
the time of the Scopes trial of course.
Besides that, is there any reason why Darrow's public
statements in his capacity as a lawyer - specially HIS sort
of lawyer - bear any relationship to his beliefs at the time
anyway, rather than 'words' calculated by him to assist his
case, or his objectives for the case, at that particular time?
DR> 3) only Creatioists (i.e. fundy a.....es) make
DR> the claim that he said it.
That might be no more than a reflection on the lack of
integrity of evolutionists, who often seem more interested
in achieving an objective, than in objective reality!
DR> Author: Rob Zuber
An "unbiased" and thoroughly objective source -
naturally! Also one whose researches were naturally as
thorough as would be needed to make sure that he found the
"desired" result!
DR> Title: The Clarence Darrow Misquote
Even the title is biased to the hilt. It assumes something
that he was supposed to establish (and failed miserably to
establish it would seem!).
DR> First it should be noted that it wouldn't make any sense
DR> for Darrow to say such a thing at the Scopes trial. Darrow
DR> was trying to defend the practice of teaching *only*
DR> evolution, which is what the Dayton public schools were
DR> doing at the time of the Scopes trial [1]. Darrow would be
DR> shooting himself in the foot.
Obvious nonsense. Darrow's position was that of defending
John Scopes and of showing either that he did NOT beak any
law or that if he did he should be treated to the lowest
possible penalty. Anything else would be a travesty of his
position and an indication of a deliberate intention to
pervert the function of the court system.
DR> "One thing is clear, however: Darrow did not say any such
DR> thing during the trial - at least not according to the
DR> quasi-official, unedited, published transcript of the
DR> entire proceedings, the 1925 book _The World's Most Famous
DR> Court Trial_ (National Book Company). It is conceivable
DR> that the steno-grapher might have missed a few words,
DR> since there was considerable noise and excitement during
DR> the trial, and part of it was held outdoors, but it seems
DR> most unlikely that such a ringing statement would have
DR> been omitted from the complete transcript in the published
DR> version considered authoritative by scholars." [1]
Clearly the above refutes you completely. You have not the
slightest justification for claiming that Darrow never said
that it was ABSOLUTE BIGOTRY to teach only one view of
origins. In fact such a statement might have been the very
thing he would have said, as a lawyer with his reputation,
because it would tend to challenge the State to be fair
minded. (something that evolutionists fear more than
anything else it seems as far as that goes!)
DR> "Griggs modestly volunteered that his _Science and
DR> Scripture_ article was a 'trivial essay' that he had not
DR> intended as a scholarly reference. The Darrow quote was
DR> written from memory, without the aid of a written source.
So that is the best your "unbiased" researcher was able to
come up with. Not a proof that Darrow did not say that, but
just that he was unable to find any existing written record
of it. We can be sure, of course that even if he had found a
written record, such as a newspaper article that he would
then have tried to argue that that was not satisfactory,
wouldn't he?
I acknowledge however your implied claim that you are
fully in favour of brainwashing of students in the delusion
of evolutionism, which admitted that in those hundreds of
open, public, scientific debates that the creationists
always seemed to be better informed, had always done their
homework and almost always WON!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Water and Flood,
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:28:00
EID:c07f 22274b80
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2e03
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood.")
LA> Nothing you have said to date indicates that you know
LA> what you are talking about.
DR> Let's look at a couple of semi-real examples. (Truly
DR> isolated systems do not exist.)
Ha ha ha! _semi-real_ huh!! What a joke.
Why then does Isaac Asimov say that we see entropy all
around us, when we exist in an open system? Why does he
say;
"As far as we know, ALL changes are in the direction of
INCREASING entropy, of increasing disorder, of increasing
randomness, of running down."
(Isaac Asimov, "Can Decreasing Entropy Exist in the
Universe?" Science Digest, (May 1973), p. 76.)(emphasis
added)
DR> I have a swimming pool divided into two halves by a thin
DR> dividing wall. Into one half I pour ink and into the other
DR> I pour water. I remove the divider and wait. The ink
DR> gradually mixes with the water (ignoring natural convection)
DR> and eventually I have a fairly uniform mixture. The entropy
DR> of the pool contents has spontaneously increased through the
DR> process of molecular motion.
That is not a valid example of anything, since there was
an outside purposeful manipulation of the system. It was
NOT a spontaneous event at all - your "cheated"! Don't you
know that Asimov also said that;
"In any physical change THAT TAKES PLACE BY ITSELF, the
entropy ALWAYS increases." (Entropy is "a measure of the
quantity of energy NOT capable of conversion into work").
("In the Game of Energy and Thermodynamics, You Can't Even
Break Even," Journal of the Smithsonian Institute, (June,
1970), p. 8, - ref. Scientific Creationism, p. 39)(my
emphasis)
Yes I know that Asimov also tries to "get around" the
force of his scientific statement but then his examples are
just as much "cheating" as yours are! The simple facts are
that evolution is in conflict with real science. Only
outside intelligent intervention could ever have produced a
state from which entropy could INCREASE and only further
deliberate intelligent intervention could cause a temporary
and local reversal (decrease) in entropy!
In other words the Earth/System was initially "wound up"
and only that made it possible for increasing entropy to
occur. Without intelligent intervention entropy always
increases and even with intelligent intervention it is only
a temporary delay that is possible.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Water and Flood (b).
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:28:32
EID:d13f 22274b80
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2e41
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood.")
>>LA> You don't know that at all. On the contrary we now
>>LA> know that most large mountainss are relatively RECENT
>>LA> and appear to have raised rapidly as well. i.e.
>DR> Yes, geologically speaking, a few million years is
>DR> RECENT.
LA> And a few thousand years is even MORE recent.
DR> That's nice. But we were talking about mountain building,
DR> not the last time you had an actual thought.
More to the point, it seems a distinct possibility that
you have yet to have your first intelligent thought at all!
"The globe was in tension and its crust cracked along a
meridian for most of the length of the African continent.
The cause may have been the subsidence of the Indian Ocean,
or both tension in Africa and the subsidence in the Indian
Ocean could have a common cause.
"The mountain ridge on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean
may have been produced by the same cause; and the time of
the rupture and faulting must have been coincident with one
of the periods of mountain formation in Europe and Asia."
"Those mountains attained their present height in the
age of man; the Rift, it is assumed today, was also created
largely in the age of man at the end of the Ice Age."(7)
(7) Flint, Glacial Geology, p. 523: "Late-Pleistocene
mountain uplift occurred in the Himalayan region and in the
Alps, and large-scale rifting took place in eastern Africa."
as referenced in; Earth in Upheavel, sequel to "World's in
Collision", Immanuel Velikovsky, 1956, page 82.)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Radiometric Dating.
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:29:30
EID:fdd4 22274ba0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2ebc
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood.")
DR> Read:
DR> The Age of the Earth
DR> G. Brent Dalrymple
DR> Stanford University Press, Stanford, CA (1991)
DR> 474 pages including index
DR> ISBN 0-8047-1569-6
DR> Library of Congress catalog number QE508/D28
DR> Ultimately, the age of the Earth and everything in it can
DR> only be addressed by radiometric dating. As a background
DR> to the main substance of the story, modern radiometric
DR> methods are explained in a chapter that is as clear and
DR> concise as any I have read.
Thank you for providing that review. I have made a file
of it.
DR> Here the book stops being journalism and gets its teeth
DR> into the subject; lead isotope systematics are tortuous
DR> enough for those of us who deal with them daily, and
DR> Dalrymple has probably made this process as accessible as
DR> possible. Although all the principal dating methods are
DR> described, we find out that the whole story hinges on the
DR> decay of uranium to lead. A chapter relates the oldest
DR> rocks found on the Earth, and here the diversity of
DR> techniques available to the modern geochronologist becomes
DR> invaluable, giving us a minimum age constraint that is
DR> bolstered by data from lunar samples.
The above seems to be a plea for caution and gives a hint
that all is not at all plain sailing at all. The following
elaborates briefly and exposes the fact that it is quite
probably a load of nonsense anyway.
(quote ON)
=========================================================
"Quite correctly, Dalrymple says that the use of
different decay schemes on the same rock is an excellent way
to check the accuracy of age results (p. 124). Yet when it
comes to the 'crunch' with practical examples, Dalrymple
comes 'unstuck' with debatable arbitary explanations as to
why there are glaring discrepancies between the whole rock
and mineral "ages" using different radiometric methods on
the same 'ancient' rocks in Greenland (pp. 150-151).
"U-Pb discordia data from zircons and whole-rock Rb-Sr,
Lu-Hf and Pb-Pb data all for the Amitsoq gneiss all
consistently give a presumed emplacement 'age' of 3.7 Ga or
more and a (probable) 'age' of initial metamorphism of about
3.60-3.65 Ga, BUT individual K-Ar and 40/Ar/Ar/30 'ages' on
the minerals biotite, hornblend and muscovite within the
SAME Amitsoq gneiss are inconsistent, ranging from 1.67 Ga
to 4.85 Gas (older than the earth!), while U-Th-Pb and Rb-Sr
measurements on a variety of separated minerals also show 'a
confusing pattern' rather than the straightforward isochron
relationships of the whole-rock data."
"So how does Dalrymple 'wriggle' out of this, when
according to his own statement the accuracy of these 'age'
results and the methods used to obtain them must be
questioned? He says that a 'logical answer' is that when
the rocks were heated during metamorphism, the isotopes
moved, but not very far, so that the isotopes were
homogenised only within the surrounding small portions of
the rock, not throughout the entire rock body."
"Thus, for example, during heating a 87/Sr atom will move out
of a Rb-bearing mineral where it was generated by
radioactive decay, but in whose crystal structure it does
not fit comfortably, only to be captured by an adjacent
calcium mineral (for example, plagioclase) where it can
substitute easily for that element.
"Rock samples that contain many thousands of individual
mineral grains therefore remain systems essentially closed
to 87/Sr even though the individual mineral grains do not.
The same argument, says Dalrymple, can be applied to other
isotopes used in dating these rocks, and
'This explanation, or some similar mechanism,
must be correct for there can be little doubt that the
whole-rock isochrons represent the age of the gneisses'
because the data 'are far too consistent to be
explained by mere coincidence'.
"To the contrary, the data in his published table are
only consistent because he CHOSE to leave out the
inconsistent (inconvenient) 1.67-4.85 Ga K-Ar and 40/Ar/39Ar
'ages' and confusing U-Th-Pb and Rb-Sr measurements."
"So much for 'THERE CAN BE LITTLE DOUBT' and the
explanation given 'MUST BE CORRECT'! if the 87/Sr atoms
migrate out of minerals then the minerals are not closed
systems."
"Where is the 'proof' of how far the 87/Sr atoms migrate
and whether whole-rock data represent homogenisation in
those rock portions sampled and analysed? By his own
admission the same argument can be applied to other isotopes
used in dating rocks."
"This is arbitary 'fiddling of the books', which is NEVER
justified even if the end result LOOKS RIGHT (that is, is
consistent with expectations). Yet he repeats the same sort
of 'explanations' in several other places in the book (pp.
157-163, 170, 187) when disparities occur between different
isotopic 'dates' on the same rock."
(Book Review of; The Age of the Earth (G. Brent Dalrymple,
1991, 1994), Andrew A. Snelling, Creation Technical
Journal, Vol. NINE (part 2), 1995, p. 158)
================================================
(END Quote)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Velikovsky Vindicated.
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:30:10
EID:b6fe 22274bc0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2f17
Hi David,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood.")
>DR> The insane lunatic Velikovsky claimed the "lush polar
>DR> areas" existed just yesterday, geologically speaking
>DR> (i.e. 10,000 years bp).
LA> Ah, you seem to be catching on at last!
DR> And you seem to be slipping further and further into
DR> ignorance and willful imbicility!
Those are not the words of a wise man, an ethical man or
or a confident man. They seem more like the words of an
intolerant, arrogant, ignorant bigot.
DR> PROBLEMS WITH VELIKOVSKY'S INTERPRETATION OF MYTHS AS HISTORY
DR> [long irrelevant detailed stuff here]
You would know of course that the above has all been
answered by other scientists and academics who say that;
(QUOTE ON)
"These lines are being written a few weeks after the
launching of a carefully prepared book attacking the
growing position of Immanuel Velikovsky in intellectual
circles. [Scientists Confront Velikovsky (Cornell)] This
attack was followed promptly by a withering counter-attack
in a special issue of the Journal Kronos."
[. . . ]
"The aforesaid Cornell Press book was promptly shredded
by the aforesaid special issue of KRONOS." (Velikovsky
Affair, Sphere 1978, p.1-10)
The same book also says;
"Writing at the end of 1977, an historian of Science,
A.M. Paterson, declared:
"Actually the battle is over. Dr. Velikovsky has
emerged the victor because his scientific hypothesis
that there have been physical planetry catastrophes in
historical times has been proven to have enormous
predictive power. For example, a few from very, very
many may be listed:
Radio noise from Jupiter, strong charge on Jupiter
(1953)
Earth's extensive magneto-sphere (1956)
An extensive magnetic field in the solar system
extending to Pluto (1946)
The Sun is charged (1950)
Venus is very hot, has heavy atmosphere, and was
disturbed in its rotation and may have an anomalous
rotation (1950)
Mars' atmosphere may contains quantities of argon and
neon (1945)
Mars is moon-like, battered and geologically active
(1950)
There have been many reversals of Earth's magnetic
poles (1950)
Some of Earth's petroleum was deposited only a few
thousand years ago (1950)
"And successful deduction about the Moon;
Hydrocarbons, carbides, and carbonates will be found
(July2 and July 21 1969);
Strong remanent magnetism in rocks (May 19, 1969);
Pockets of radioactivity (March 14, 1967)
Excessive argon and neon in the regolith (leading to
incorrect age estimates (July 23, 1969);
Steep thermal gradient under the surface (July 2,
1969)."
(Ibid. Ref. "Velikovsky versus Academic Lag", in
Velikovsky and Establishment Science, op. cit., pp.
121-31, p. 126.)
Alfred de Grazia continues by saying;
"Perhaps Professor Paterson would be quick to agree
that her first sentence was the hyperbole of an
enthusiast. As she points out elsewhere in her article,
300 years of science may be used up in conflict over a
great paradigm."
(end quote)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Pollen
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:30:44
EID:17ab 22274bc0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 889d2f58
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 27-Dec-1996, "Pollen.")
DC> On (27 Dec 96) Laurie Appleton got back to Rick Mcfarlane...
LA> (What is Creation Science, Morris & Parker, 1983, p. 131)
LA> (What is Creation Science, Morris & Parker, p. 132)
DC> You really are a moron, aren't you. Those references
DC> will get you nowhere in any area that uses science,
DC> evidence and facts as the criteria for discussion.
Once again you underscore the dogma and bigotry that
evolutionism actually is. In other words it is NOT real
science at all and not even pseudo science, but rather a
form of religious fanaticism!
DC> Go peddle your bullshit to the functionally braindead.
DC> It's your only hope of convincing someone that you have a
DC> point other than the one on top of your head.
That is just what I have been doing in your case, but I
guess you are probably too far gone really! Still, while
there is life there is hope, perhaps? Here is some
more Velikovsky for you;
(quote on)
"Actually rich inclusions of both argon and neon were
found in lunar material. Ages of 7 billion and even 20
billion years were deduced. . . . ."
"The conclusion is inescapable that the potassium-argon
method of dating the age of the lunar rocks needs to be
discounted. . . ."
"It was found (and it caused one of the surprises in
which the lunar exploration was rich) that the lunar rocks
are greatly depleted of all volitile elements; lead,
bismuth, cadmium, thallium, indium, and others. Actually
the lunar rocks contain only 10 per cent, and down to as
little as one per cent, as much of these elements as
correponding terrestrial rocks."
"Thus the uranium-lead and thorium-lead methods for
estimating the age of lunar rocks as are as inapplicable as
the potassium argon method. One method is undermined by the
bountiful addition of the final product and the other
method by the depletion of the final product.. . . ."
"At the Third Lunar Conference, held at Houston in
January 1972, Leon T. Silver of the Division of Geological
and Planetary Sciences, California Institute of Technology,
challenged the age estimates of lunar rocks. Lead and
rubidium can become heated sufficiently to move freely over
the Moon as gases. Silver gave no estimate of how much the
lunar boiling off might have affected the estimates of the
Moon's age and by how much the 'ages' need to be revised."
". . . . This and other observations made him conclude
his paper with these words: 'Continuous examination of
basic assumptions provides some of the greatest harvests in
Science.' . . . ."
(Velikovsky Reconsidered, By the Editors of Pensee, 1978,
Abacus, p. 226-230)
(end quote)
So the more research that evolutionists perform the more
they find out that they were WRONG in most things. They call
it "self-correction", but forget that each self-correction
nearly always bring them back closer and closer to the
tranditional position from which they departed, with Darwin!
It is only a matter of time and the evolutionary position
will collapse completely under its LOAD of "self-corrections"
- just like the human race too, is slowly but surely building up
its genetic load where extinction appears to be the end
result and NOT a new and better "Naked Ape"!
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Carl Pollock
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: Re: 12 Days of Abduction
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:49:39
EID:af94 22267e20
<<=QUOTING J.j. Hitt @1:106/9788.2 V TO Carl Pollock=>>
CP> If you didn't notice, this is a RELIGIOUS DEBATE echo. Why
CP> on earth would a message like the twelve days of abduction
CP> go here?
JH@V> UFO-ology is, in many respects, completely indistinguishable from
JH@V> religion.
If you didn't notice, the poster of this message posted it as a joke. If
he
intended to start a religous debate, I would not have posted this message.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- VFIDO 7.12
* Origin: PC Online (1:2424/2406)
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|From: Carl Pollock
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:49:39
EID:5104 22267e20
<<=QUOTING David Worrell @1:123/67.7 TO Carl Pollock=>>
CP> All right, so if you that you will recive it, and the
CP> athiests don't belive it, then they will accuse the thiests of lying!
CP> However, what we could do is the thiests pray for the athiests to get
CP> something, so that the athiests can't say that the thiests were lying!
CP> Sounds good?
DW@> It sounds like English is a second (or third, or fourth) language for
DW@> you. Since you didn't quote anything, I have no idea what the hell
DW@> you're babbling about.
Forget it.
CP> By the way, are you a athiest or a thiest?
DW@> Neither.
How is that possable? Either you belive in God or you don't!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- VFIDO 7.12
* Origin: PC Online (1:2424/2406)
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 2424/2406 2401 11 10 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Carl Pollock
|To: JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub: Re: 12 Days of Abduction
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:49:40
EID:1c3c 22267e20
<<=QUOTING Judith Bandsma @1:372/62 TO Carl Pollock=>>
CP> If you didn't notice, this is a RELIGIOUS DEBATE echo. Why on earth
CP> would a message like the twelve days of abduction go here?
JB@> Because some people have made a religion of UFO's. See, wasn't that
JB@> easy?
The message itself stated that it was posted just for laughs.
JB@> Oh, since you can't use the excuse that you are answering these
JB@> online,
JB@> LEARN TO QUOTE.
Sorry.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- VFIDO 7.12
* Origin: PC Online (1:2424/2406)
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PATH: 2424/2406 2401 11 10 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Re: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:38:37
EID:d4bf 22268cc0
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32D1BA55
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Marty Leipzig <=-
AM> Do you deny that this country was founded by people deeply commited
AM> to Judeo-Christian thought?
Yes.
______________________________________________________________________________
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead
of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a
contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal
establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its
fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the
clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition,
bigotry and persecution." - James Madison, "A Memorial and
Remonstrance", 1785
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a
revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales,
legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation
that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -
John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal
example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has
preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief
has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the
Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by
the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of
Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope,
because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius',
the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine."
- John Adams, letter to John Taylor
"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized
learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed
a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY?
The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the
most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced,
propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision
with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and
you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm
about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes." - John
Adams, letter to John Taylor
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch
towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make
one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support
roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson, from
"Notes on Virginia"
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they
believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is
three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one.
But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the
priests." - Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1803
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of
the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by
those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into
an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors
in Church and State." - Thomas Jefferson to S. Kercheval, 1810
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles,
all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been
quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for
abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and
absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." - Thomas
Jefferson to Carey, 1816
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I
mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ...
or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments
despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Benjamin Franklin Works, Vol. VII, p. 75
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by
the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the
Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of . . . Each of
those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I
disbelieve them all." Thomas Paine
"the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian religion." John Adams, Treaty of Tripoli
____________________________________________________________________________
Now please retract your statement above or I will be forced to taunt you
a
second time.
... I think. Therefore I am DANGEROUS.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
* Origin: [The Dark Corner] Still Spitting 'Fire' (1:3652/1)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 06 Jan 97 16:44:00
EID:6074 22268580
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d12bd0
-> On 05 Jan 97 19:52:53, David Worrell got back to Steve Quarrella
SQ> claimed that -tennis shoes- were a possible symbol of your child's
SQ> involvement with the occult. "Uh, yes, well, Nike WAS a Greek goddess,
SQ> but these Nikes are just -shoes.-"
DW> Shit. Didn't the military once use an anti-aircraft missile called the
DW> Nike? Are they all satan worshippers, too? :)
DW> ~~~
Worse! They had that "homma-sex-yuwahl", missile, the Nike-Hercules!
... "I'd use a dictionary if I knew how to spell." Jim S. Mabon Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Re: cheese whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 16:56:01
EID:6180 22268700
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d12ea1
-> On 03 Jan 97 17:32:30, Brett Johnson got back to Curtis Johnson
CJ> Looks like your God, the greatest abortionist of them all,
CJ> designed it this way.
BJ> The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.
So, it's ok for your god to off fetuses indiscriminately. Fitting,
as he already showed his disdain for fully functional members of
the species that don't buy his bullshit.
BJ> Lat time I heard, Dr.Morgentaller, and every other practicing
BJ> abortionist, are not God.
Fortunately, no, as those doctors have morals. It's something
your god never bothered to protray as an attribute.
... "Any damned fool can believe." Preston Simpson
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Christianity = 0 of 0
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:06:10
EID:b461 222688c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d13102
-> On 04 Jan 97 17:29:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>>CH> Huh? I deleted many of the items, because they were
>>CH> apparently "tongue-in cheek" comments, without merit.
>DR> They were =ALL= "tongue-in-cheek" you silly schmuck!
DC> I warned you about wasting fuel on that fly-by. But,
[..]
DC> The bill for jet fuel is the the mail.
DR> But it makes no SENSE! The article was clearly labeled as
You know that, I know that, just about everyone here, except
of course Staal, knows that.
DR> them at that?!?!? And =THEN= go on to critique the listed
DR> items (i.e. the parody of "anti-Christian life in
DR> America") as presented as if they were factual and / or
DR> really asserted?!?! HOW COULD SOMEONE BE LIKE THAT?!?!?
Should I pull out the FAQ and explain 'Fundy' to you? Better
yet, this should be _added_ to the FAQ!
BTW, complain all you want, but you are getting charged for
the excessive use of jet fuel. ;)
... Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: test
|Date: 06 Jan 97 20:54:43
EID:943e 2226a6c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d16693
-> On 05 Jan 97 14:12:36, Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> This a a test of OMX/BW & Terminate
SQ> Now you just have to track down Martin Pollard to register it.
I take it that it will be as hard as finding George Hatchew!
DC> + Origin: Your System Name (1:123/67.5)
SQ> It's working, but it looks like you need to change your origin a bit.
SQ> :)
I noticed that just after I exported it into the mailer. At least
I now know it got out! I've since got it set for various taglines
in the Echoes I read.
... "Oh, Fuck!", said Winny the Shit; the black sheep of the Pooh clan.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: 12 Days of Abduction
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:05:03
EID:ef96 2226a8a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d168ff
-> On 05 Jan 97 10:25:34, Carl Pollock got back to DON MARTIN
DM@V> If you examine the beliefs of UFO enthusiasts carefully, you
DM@V> will find that they parallel standard brand religions quite closely.
CP> I also recall you saying something about this being just for laughs.
Yep, and you are providing us more than your fair share.
CP> If you want funney, why don't you go to the funney echos.
What's a "funney"?
... You were born stupid and have been losing ground ever since.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:14:36
EID:e43b 2226a9c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d16b3c
-> On 04 Jan 97 17:44:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
DR> "This is Les Nesman high about Cincinati in WKRP Chopper
DR> One!" --- Les slapping his palms on his chest rapidly.
I think I missed that particular show! LOL!
DR> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson very
DR> ugly. Jan Smithers was vastly more appealing.
Well, Jeniffer does have some great "the real Jeniffer" shows
later in the series. It made up for the image of her being
"too perfect and aloof" as the secretary.
... "Rosebud" is Orson Wells
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:18:24
EID:c73d 2226aa40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d16c20
-> On 05 Jan 97 14:08:02, Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa
SQ>> This will all be a moot point by the end of January. Bear with me.
:)
DC> As in "Grin", too? ;)
SQ> "And bear it." :) I'm having some problems with a serial port over
on
SQ> the 486, and that's keeping me from getting moving with the server.
Got a similar problem here. Got a 33.6 that I can't get to work.
Looks like I'll have to get another one to work with what little
system I have to work with!
SQ> I just wrote it last night. You should get it the next time you poll
SQ> Shelby, as I think he dropped off some THUMP_IT mail today.
Got it! BTW, if things get slow around here, maybe we could talk
Trent into taking up the slack.
... What's that building burning over there? A church? HolySmoke!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:30:40
EID:ace4 2226abc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d16f00
-> On 04 Jan 97 17:41:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>>>JJ> Myself, I like Dietrich Bonhoeffer's response:
>>>JJ> Only those who believe are obedient, and only
>>>JJ> those who obey believe.
DR> What it means is blatently obvious. Hitler and his fine
DR> henchmen would have agreed with "Only those who believe
Will Jesse notice the correlation?
DR> Michael Hardy's aleged "loss of faith." If I can happen
DR> to Hardy (alegedly) if can happen to Jones. How very
DR> terrifying it must be to face the fact that one has
DR> SQUANDERED decades of ones' life on the lie of
Well, FWIW, looks like Mikey gets to put a notch in his monitor!
DR> terrified him. If his belief in his gods =REALLY= was
DR> the only thing keeping him from going sociopathic, he
DR> may have finally realized that there was something
That would be a very terrifying thing to have to realize
about one's self, or lack of.
DR> on how it was that he required belief in gods for him
DR> to do Good Things while millions of atheists do not
DR> require belief in gods to do Good Things.
That's just another nail in his coffin. Doing something purely
out of fear does not make for anything remotely considered "free
will".
... I saved the life of the virgin sacrifice by disqualifying her.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:38:54
EID:c73d 2226acc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d170ee
-> On 05 Jan 97 14:09:16, Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa
SQ>> that I should listen to the Doors, so why I was wasting my time asking
DC> I'm still trying to figure out how he equates his believe system
DC> with a rock group?
SQ> He dribbled on about how human creativity was some kind of symptom of
SQ> "crying out to the divine" (my quotes, not his). Frankly, I think
SQ> it's symptom of the creativity of human beings. For crying out loud,
It's seems that the most creative go that route or simpley burn out.
Orson Wells was an example of the later.
SQ> even Jesse's deities are responsible for THAT. If so, why do they
SQ> "call them home" at such a young age? Hendrix and Moon, dead of an
If so, then it's similar to the ST _The Menagerie_, in which the
keepers do not have any emotions and find them in that of those
of their captives. Which, of course, makes their god a rather
poor excuse for a god.
... "No one has jurisdiction over the truth" - Fox Mulder
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:43:42
EID:eeb0 2226ad60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d1720e
-> On 05 Jan 97 10:25:33, Carl Pollock got back to MARK O'NEILL
CP> The thing wrong with that idea is that God does not respond with a
CP> "yes" to any old prayer. If the request dosen't corraspond with his
CP> will, the answer will be a "no".
MO@> made up before the request for divine intervention is made. That being
MO@> the case, praying ain't gonna do dick, is it?
CP> Okay, so maybe I sort of spoke with out thinking. I now think it's a
CP> good idea.
No, you typed "without thinking". And, yes, it is a good idea.
Try it sometime. You will find your religion is riddled with
inconsistencies. And, if you continue to think, you will at
least start to wonder why you beLIEve in it.
... "Your god also created the vacuum between your ears." Jan Deboer
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:46:44
EID:eeb0 2226adc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d172c4
-> On 05 Jan 97 10:25:34, Carl Pollock got back to MARTIN GOLDBERG
MG@> We don't want bible quotes. We want to know spcifically why your god
MG@> starves innocnet people to death.
CP> And how do I prove this point with out quoting bible text?
Very good! You are starting to think!
Yes, without bible quotes, you don't have a god, let alone a
godling, holy spook, satan, and a whole bunch of other
non-existant mythological constructs to get in your way.
... The Church hates a thinker like a robber hates a cop.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Zechariah 11:13 / Matthew 27:5
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:55:00
EID:f194 222576e0
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: The Messiah's "blood money" will be cast into God's house.
So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw then to the potter in
the house on the Lord.
FULFILLMENT: And he [Judas] threw the pieces of silver into the
sanctuary and departed.
After betraying Jesus, Judas overcome by remorse, threw the money
back into the Temple and went outside and hanged himself.
Cast the burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee:
He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved. [Psalm 55:22]
JESUS SAVES North Bay, Ont.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Isaiah 53:7 / Matthew 27:12
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:17:00
EID:5863 22264a20
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: The Messiah will be silent before His accusers.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth.
FULFILLMENT: And while He was being accused by the chief priests and
elders, He answered nothing.
Throughout the litany of lies and false accusations, Jesus remained silent.
Seek not the counsel of the ungodly. (Psalm 1:1).
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: All
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:15:26
EID:f7ef 2226a9e0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32d1b1be
Since I'm kind of new to this debate, let me introduce myself...
I'm a proud (relatively speaking) Lutheran who goes to church every Sunday
(not always voluntarily, but still).
Anyhow, the brunt of my message...
Something that disturbs me are the people who stand outside the courtroom
at OJ's civil trial or abortion clinics. These people claim to be tolerant,
loving Christians, but cry "murderer!" and would gladly kill the target
of their wrath. Can't these people see what they're doing? Can't anyone?
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Population Growth (b)
|Date: 05 Jan 97 22:35:00
EID:40a7 2225b460
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2d1c14c1
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Marilyn.
RM> So back up your argument. You still haven't shown us ANYTHING that
RM> makes gives any justification at all to your claim that population
RM> statistics demand a yourn gearth. Nothing, in spite of several
RM> requests. All you do is ask us to play guessing games. WHat are you
RM> hiding?
RM> Show us your math, or be branded a liar one more time.
MB> Even assuming that the human animal came onboard the Earth in the
MB> year 700 does not prove a young earth. All it proves is that we
MB> were latecomers to the Earth (which, in fact, we were).
A valid point.
Myself, I'm a very recent arrival, geologically speaking.
Take care.
... One planet... One people.... Please!
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a26 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Population Growth. [1]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 22:37:00
EID:bdec 2225b4a0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2d1c14e1
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Marilyn.
RM> Any attempt to reconstruct historical growth rates has to be
RM> based on historical conditions - you cannot just "project"
RM> current growth rates back in time, which is why none of the
RM> above is valid in any case.
RM> Pittiful, Laurie. Bad science, worse ethics.
MB> Years ago, I had a boss who was an economist. He used to say
MB> "The Greeks brought us two things: homosexuality and linear
MB> extrapolation. It is difficult to say which has caused us the
MB> most harm."
MB> While I only half agree with his final conclusion regarding
MB> homosexuality,
Interesting. That subject is like abortion in that most people find it
black and white. Very few people would "half agree". But I don't think
the Greeks invented it .
MB> I definitely agree that linear extrapolation
MB> has brought us much harm, and that Laurie is only the tip of
MB> the iceberg harm it hath wrought.
The linear extrapolation has lead to a lot of mistakes over
the years, but Creationists seem to prefer the exponential extrapolation.
It's much more easily tuned to their requirements. OTOH, from a
statistician's point of view, if a linear extrapolation is dangerous, an
exponential extrapolation is dangerous squared.
MB> Laurie is rather ethically challenged, isn't he?
Just noticed that?
Take care.
... The essence of the beautiful is unity in variety. - Mendelssohn
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a26 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: CHEESE WHIZ
|Date: 05 Jan 97 16:49:00
EID:6a5a 22258620
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Nate Cookson <=-
GTP> The organ will continue to be a part of a human being as long as it
GTP> remains attached to the body it grew in. The fetus will continue to
GTP> live as long as it can leech nutrients from the body it grows in.
At
GTP> the point it no longer leeches nutrients and can utilize raw materials
GTP> to make its own, it is human. Until then it is a parasite.
A condition which can persist long after birth, I might add.
... Documentation - The worst part of programming.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:16:00
EID:365a 22265200
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Roger Hunter <=-
LB> Not exactly as Al is stating there, but yes, there is a school of
LB> thought that suggests that what Jesus accomplished was to act as a
LB> conduit...to open the door. One of his appellations is "the Way"....so
LB> that, having wrenched open the door, one need not believe in him, or
LB> even be aware of the door itself. The barriers have have removed. The
LB> question (symbolically)
LB> becomes, "Is the door open or closed? Is knocking and asking for
LB> entrance needed, or is it there, travelled through without having to
LB> think about it."
Sounds like a bunch of rationalization to me. Jesus' whole emphasis
was an exclusive one, sent only to the lost sheep of the house of
Israel. It's a big stretch to think he meant anything like the above
with only a sentence or two to support the idea.
LB> The idea, often brought up here is that pagans need only stand on
LB> their conscience, whereas those who have HEARD of the door are required
LB> to ask for entrance. Were that the case, and christians really
LB> believed it, they would, if they cared about the immortal souls of
LB> their fellow humans and their
LB> children, do their best to wipe all knowledge of christian teachings
LB> from the face of the planet, so as to avoid that door being shut,
LB> waiting to be knocked upon.
Indeed. It goes along with my idea that a good mother would kill her
children before they reached the age of accountability. That way,
they go to heaven. She, of course, is toast, but hey, that's what
self-sacrifice is all about...
LB> Sometimes I really think that the reason why some of the most hostile
LB> types are those most prone to evangelization is that they want to make
LB> sure
LB> that everyone has 'heard the word' so that they won't be able to just
LB> pass through freely.
Many of them could care less about anyone but themself. The more
converts they make, the closer to the Throne they get.
... We now return to our regularly scheduled flame-throwing.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: 2 CORINTHIANS 9:13
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:24:00
EID:4473 22265300
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Yeah. That's the answer to the "buy my book on how to get rich"
GTP> schemes.
GTP> Me, too. Things like Amway are biggest ripoff.
Not really. (I'm a distributor) The catch in Amway is having
to spilt the profit with your upline. The secret to Amway is
just to use it for your own needs. The products are fine, so
buy them wholesale and forget the rest.
GTP>> qualify to take advantage of anything I learn. You just have to
GTP>> believe I have breasts.
RH> Not without first hand evidence
GTP> I'm working on the gif.s, I'm working on the gif.s.
?? I thought you said you would not do that?
GTP> The only thing I have found astrology to be good for is
GTP> self-reflection. As a teen, I studied it alot and tried to see how
GTP> what it said I was was what I really was. When I found parallels in
That's valid. In a similar vein, have you read Piers Anthony's Tarot
series? He uses the Tarot in a similar fashion, as a guide to
contemplation and a means of bringing the subconscious to the fore.
... Belief without evidence is no more than self delusion.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:26:00
EID:9110 22265340
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Ok, I'm ready.
GTP> A steel codpiece would be more like it. We prefer to go for the
GTP> smartest part of a man.
Not tha much of a threat to me, then. I think I got hit by a
ricocheting Satanic curse or something....
GTP> What can I say, I grew up in the seventies. Make love not war, dude.
Seventies? Just a child, then. And already a Goddess.
... File not found, I'll load something *I* think is interesting.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 18:04:03
EID:bd22 22269080
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 788ed7ed
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ce2bfa
On (04 Jan 97) Gwenny the Pooh babbled to Nate Cookson...
NC>> Maybe environment? How about mankind that is pouring toxic
NC>> waste into the ground and our water supplies? How about
NC>> mankind that is pouring toxic waste into the air we breath??
Gt> (And I still want to know why this can't be the cause of the
Gt> alledged increase in breast cancer)
I believe all cancers are a function of age (the older you get,
the more likely you'll get cancer). If that is true, then we must
look at the baby boomers and their trip through the population and
see where they are at the moment. Having been born in 1946-64,
they would be between 42 and 50 at the moment. How much you want
to bet THAT has something to do with the increase in cancer? Given
the fact that few menopausal women are all that thrilled about
having another infant in the house, I wouldn't be surprised if,
after adjusting the breast-cancer/abortion numbers for age, much
of the conicidence wouldn't disappear.
... Do it tomorrow. You've made enough mistakes for one day
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:28:57
EID:06ea 22269b80
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 508076e9
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32cffd11
On (05 Jan 97) Steve Quarrella babbled to Dan Ceppa...
SQ> He dribbled on about how human creativity was some kind of
SQ> symptom of "crying out to the divine" (my quotes, not his).
SQ> Frankly, I think it's symptom of the creativity of human
SQ> beings. For crying out loud, even Jesse's deities are
SQ> responsible for THAT. If so, why do they "call them home" at
SQ> such a young age? Hendrix and Moon, dead of an accidental
SQ> overdose. Holly, Valens, The Big Bopper, and Vaughn, killed
SQ> in plane/helicopter accidents. Joplin, suicide. Morrison, who
SQ> knows, but he's dead. Lennon, murdered by a nut. Bonham and
SQ> Scott, drank too much and barfed on it. The list goes on and
SQ> on.
Mama Cass Elliott choked to death on a ham sandwich. I mean, it
isn't like she was doing anything that would be considered
life-threatening or evil, like skydiving or smoking crack, but
she's just as dead.
I wonder why his god called her home.
... 23rd Rule of Creationism: Claim superiority for Christian education.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: xtian snobbishery
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:58:43
EID:670d 22266740
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f740
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cfaa8c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
BS>>> 1- What do you think of an Episcopal church ordering 16 cases of
BS>>> wine from a distributor and having it delivered to the churches
BS>>> cafeteria area?
GtP>> Why should I feel anything. Alcohol is a part of the religious
GtP>> practice of that church and several others. The idea of alcohol being
GtP>> evil is a somewhat recent idea. As for it being delivered to the
GtP>> cafeteria, where else would they store it besides the food area??
GT> Indeed. And where would the Vikings be without large quantities of
GT> mead? 'Course, we tend to brew our own rather than order out for it.
Where would Vikings be without large quantities of mead?? SOBER. . .scary
thought, huh?
BS>>> 2- What is your opinion for the trend of some of the major churches
BS>>> turning to accepting into their membership roles, the gay
BS>>> community?
GtP>> About time.
GT> Better more gays and fewer thumpers.
Say Blessed Be to that Brother.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Parking for Witches only. Violators will be toad.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:59:53
EID:17c0 22266760
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f763
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cfaaed
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
AS>>>> Nope, not yet. I'll keep an eye out... And back to the "barbarian".
AS>>>> I think Glen would enjoy being the subject of a Frazetta Conanish
AS>>>> cover, with a battle-axe, halfway steeped in gore, and at least one
AS>>>> adoring, scantily clad female clutching at him.... He just strikes
me
AS>>>> as that kind of guy...of course, you would know better...
GT>>> Hmmm... What a concept. (Although I'm getting a little grey for
GT>>> Frazetta's sword-swingers.) I'll have to see what we can come up
GT>>> with.
GtP>> Do you know a source for control top loinclothes.
GT> No comment.
I love your buddha belly, I do. I just couldn't resist.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Nobody shoots at Santa Claus.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:00:34
EID:ecf0 22266800
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f7b5
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32cfab4e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
AS>>>> And back to the "barbarian". I think Glen would enjoy being the
AS>>>> subject of a Frazetta Conanish cover, with a battle-axe, halfway
AS>>>> steeped in gore, and at least one adoring, scantily clad female
AS>>>> clutching at him.... He just strikes me as that kind of guy...of
AS>>>> course, you would know better...
GT>>> What do you think, honey? I'm starting to look a little more like
GT>>> Father Odhinn at this point than one of Frank's generic
GT>>> sword-swingers, but it's definitely a concept that we could do
GT>>> something with.
GtP>> I can see it now, Conan the Destroyer. . .SENIOR. We could
GtP>> try it. I, personally, like you in the long wizard robes.
GT> I was thinking of Father Odhinn with a couple of valkyries. Maybe
even
GT> turn the idea into a family portrait.
I'm still waiting to get the family militia one done. You know, we could
combine the two ideas and do a camo robe with assorted ancient and modern
weapons one.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "If my calculations are correct, and they always are..." The Doctor
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:02:44
EID:283f 22266840
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f80c
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d00ae5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Al:
AS>>> I try to keep current...
AS>>>> if you send an electric shock through me, will that make me a
AS>>>> superconductor?
ML>>>> Practice makes perfect.
AS>>> That's a shocking answer...
GT>>> Revolting. But that's about watt I would expect. The light's on,
GT>>> but there's nobody ohm.
AS>> Watt did you say? It's good we have an outlet for this sort of thing,
AS>> isn't it?
GT> Just lightning things up.
Giving him static again, dear?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Has anyone seen my sanity? If so, shoot it!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:30:00
EID:10d4 22267bc0
PID: RA 2.02 143
MSGID: 1:128/203 586fb80e
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf75bd
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Your right mom, and really think that no one at all has the right to judge
other people that they have not met personally. Not to mention that it
was none of our business anyway.
---
* Origin: A-viking on the cyber sea (1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:32:50
EID:9bf2 22268c00
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d13775
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f80c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Gwenny the
Pooh whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about more physics comedy:
AS>>>> I try to keep current...
AS>>>>> if you send an electric shock through me, will that make me a
AS>>>>> superconductor?
ML>>>>> Practice makes perfect.
AS>>>> That's a shocking answer...
GT>>>> Revolting. But that's about watt I would expect. The light's
on,
GT>>>> but there's nobody ohm.
AS>>> Watt did you say? It's good we have an outlet for this sort of thing,
AS>>> isn't it?
GT>> Just lightning things up.
GtP> Giving him static again, dear?
I thought that he might get a charge out of it.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... ... CAUTION! Do Not Look Into Laser With Remaining Eye.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Viking raiders on the cyber sea. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: xtian snobbishery
|Date: 06 Jan 97 17:33:56
EID:54d7 22268c20
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1381f
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d0f740
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Gwenny the Pooh!
Monday January 06 1997 12:58, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Glen Todd:
BS>>>> 1- What do you think of an Episcopal church ordering 16 cases of
BS>>>> wine from a distributor and having it delivered to the churches
BS>>>> cafeteria area?
GtP>>> Why should I feel anything. Alcohol is a part of the religious
GtP>>> practice of that church and several others. The idea of alcohol
GtP>>> being evil is a somewhat recent idea. As for it being delivered to
GtP>>> the cafeteria, where else would they store it besides the food area??
GT>> Indeed. And where would the Vikings be without large quantities of
GT>> mead? 'Course, we tend to brew our own rather than order out for it.
GtP> Where would Vikings be without large quantities of mead?? SOBER. .
.scary
GtP> thought, huh?
Probably the only thing that kept them from conquering the _entire_ world.
We'll do better next time.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... URA Redneck if you have a Hefty Bag instead of a passenger window.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The call of the Horn is ringing from the hill (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 04 Jan 97 19:17:00
EID:cca2 22249a20
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32cef4c4
REPLY: 1:3603/210 169a4930
Here's what Robert Curry said to David Rice about Quote:
RC> with: Lee Woofenden
LW>> What are my professed convictions, David?
DR>> The absurd belief that human thought and conviction
DR>> can change reality.
RC> Well, don't you think that sometimes they can?
DR> Cerytainly. I should have qualified that with "... can
DR> change reality into non-reality," such as turning the
DR> cement sidewalk into a big soft fluffy pillow.
RC> But then, that's not Lee's "professed conviction."
Right you are!
Are you listening, David?
RC> I wonder where he's gone off to? Never does stay around very
RC> long, I've noticed.
This time I had a problem with my feed. I was using a special mail-only
phone
number that my hub discontinued without letting his downlinks know about
it.
Took me a while to figure out what was going on.
However, by now there should have been some more messages from me posted
on the
echo, since I sent them as soon as I re-established my link. If you haven't
received anything since before Christmas, let me know and I'll re-send those
messages.
If they didn't come through, that could explain why I haven't gotten any
responses from any of them. I'm thinking of switching to a different feed
farther up the chain.
Usually I am away for a while because I get too busy with work and family
to
indulge myself here.
--Lee
... "Herrings are red..."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 04 Jan 97 23:19:00
EID:109a 2224ba60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D3
AS> RV> Beware the control aspect of your beliefs, for thats how it appears
AS> RV> at this end of the table.
AS> Perhaps you were taking it a TAD too seriously...
AS> If Robert spent four MINUTES praying, I would be considerably
AS> surprised.
Any wish is a form of praying. Hasn't work on the 649 Loto, yet.
Short of a pagen praying, to just give thanks to what ever god/dess
for their being, I wouldn't class it as a real pray. The same would
apply to a christian, if a real pray, it wouldn't be for anymore
then just thanks that their god or gods, are there. A pray for
an answer of any kind, is just down to wish fullfillment of the
same kind as when I say to the operator of the loto machine, maybe
this time, and the supper on a win, is still on.
And as to the other point, I do at times take it too serious. Agree.
* SLMR 2.1a * * What do you mean, You "Formatted the cat"
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: .
|Date: 05 Jan 97 10:27:00
EID:e057 22255360
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D4
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-03-97 (16:31) Number: 35313
From: GLEN TODD Refer#: NONE
To: AL SCHROEDER Recvd: NO
Subj: No, really. Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT>Heilsa, Al Schroeder!
GT>Thursday January 02 1997 12:24, Al Schroeder wrote to DAVID RICE:
GT>AS> In Christian circles, it is not recommended to go to worship with
the
GT>AS> idea of picking up the opposite sex, but such happens, nevertheless,
in
GT>AS> meetings in Sunday School, fellowship meals, etc. And there's nothing
GT>AS> wrong with that. I doubt if pagan worship is THAT different.
GT>Except that Pagans don't go to circle to pick up altar boys.
If pagens are humans then there will be some, just like christians, that
will use their power /and/or/ authority to abuse the young. Pagens may
make a better arguement if they don't hid the offender, when it's found
out, like those of the christian belief system do. There is evidence
that the christian faith does move the caught to other areas, and allow
it to happen again. Do pagens also follow that path somewhat like the RC
and others do ? Move the abuser and sweep the caught act under the holy
rug of love ?
Even if those of the pagen belief, beat the shit out of the abuser and
then let him/her go, they would be acting as better humans then the
christian belief system has.
Another good christian believer got caught in this local... again.
I'm beginning to think Brant County is the abuse capital of Ontario,
hanging the fuckers is too fast a death. I can see the law giveing
another slap on the wrist and saying bad boy .
.....Nothing funny about this shit.......
* SLMR 2.1a * ** Epicentre Of The Universe, God Speaking. **
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: YOU ? What ? Bait..Me?
|Date: 05 Jan 97 12:18:00
EID:7f6a 22256240
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D5
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-02-97 (18:40) Number: 35320
From: MICHAEL HARDY Refer#: NONE
To: RONALD VASS Recvd: YES
Subj: me Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MH>-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Ronald Vass <=-
MH> RV> Since the Great God Be_LIE_v_ER Hardy, has so called change his
tune,
MH> RV> with out a reason given. It's a toss up as to bait or fishing. At
this
MH> RV> point it's, still at that fishing stage. With no bait on the hook.
MH> AS> Well, you can believe what you want, Ron. I know who to believe
about
MH> AS> some things. I believe Mike.
MH> RV> As far as any in the modem land knows, his wife, may have taken
a turn
MH> RV> for the worst and he's pissed off at his god. Many things in life
can
MH> RV> change, and do. How that change is taken in life ,
is
MH> RV> another point all together. What Mike 'The Pea Brain' believes and
MH> RV> what happens to 'pea brain', in the long run, only time will tell.
MH> Why don't you talk to me about it, Ron? And why don't you knock off
the
MH> unwarranted insults?
See bait or is that baiting, O'wise one.
MH> Why don't you talk to me about it, Ron?
Talk to you about what ?
MH> And why don't you knock off the
MH> unwarranted insults?
Unwarranted insults ?? Would i ever do that, Never. Much.
So what unwarrant item/s are you talking of ? Then we can see
if it was A> an insult B> unwarrant C> unwarrented to whom.
D> and perhaps in what way, when compare to the pass Rightest Posting
of the Great One. ie: you that is
....to paraphrase....junk to junk.......
>*< Giveing Mike a jab with a sharp stick, as >*<
>*< Mike's God, finetunes further developments >*<
Yup. That works.......
{whine} {bitch} {knife innocent byststander} {complain}
{throw computer across room} hehehhehee... ok.. done fer today!
Yup. That works also.....
Have a Good One
Mr Hardy .................
* SLMR 2.1a * Sin exists only because God[sic] loves us. -Mike Hardy-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Hello Goddess.
|Date: 05 Jan 97 12:31:00
EID:9699 222563e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D6
SA>Making a good die roll, Ronald Vass cast horsepitals at Curtis Johnson
.. an
SA>all hell broke loose.
SA> RV> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them;
SA> RV> One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them;
SA>I want this inscribed on my wedding ring should I ever get hitched,
SA>(minus the semi-colon) but somehow I don't think it'll fit.
Use a bigger ring ?
One women to rule them all, One women to find them;
One women to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Yup. That works also. Go for it.......
One Sue to rule them all, One Sue to find them;
One Sue to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
That works also.
Have a Great Day.
O'Goddess Sue
Please don't bang on the door at 3:00 am.
* SLMR 2.1a * Never Anger A Dragon , or a Women !
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 05 Jan 97 18:06:00
EID:0cbb 222590c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D7
O'Baby your going fry in hell..........
MH> AS> I think I SORT of answered this in another post. Let me try it again,
MH> AS> on a slightly different tack. Perhaps you're right that if orthodox
MH> AS> Christianity is right, that belief is necessary for the atonement
of
MH> AS> Christ, a hard as sell as necessary would be demanded...
MH> AS> But there's an if there. And you might consider an alternative.
One
MH> AS> that even has scriptural basis, in Paul saying the conscience of
the
MH> AS> nonbeliever is their advocate before God.
MH> I think you hang too much on that passage. For one thing, it doesn't
MH> seem to be universally applicable:
MH> I believe you're talking about Romans 2:12-15:
MH> "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the
MH> law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For
MH> it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but
MH> it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed,
MH> when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required
by
MH> the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have
MH> the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written
MH> on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
MH> thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)"
MH> It seems to apply not to those who have heard and rejected the gospel,
MH> but on those who have never heard and yet still obey "the law." In any
MH> event, it is an *awfully* thin reed to build a major theological point
MH> on, especially when it has to stand up against:
MH> John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever
MH> does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed
MH> in the name of God's one and only Son."
MH> John 5:34-40: "Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention
MH> it that you may be saved. John was a lamp that burned and gave
MH> light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. I have
MH> testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the
MH> Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that
the
MH> Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself
MH> testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his
MH> form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the
MH> one he sent. You diligently study the Scriptures because you think
MH> that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that
MH> testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
MH> Note in the above that Jesus himself is specifically tying belief in
MH> him to salvation and life.
MH> John 6:28-29: "Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the
MH> works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to
MH> believe in the one he has sent.'"
MH> Again, the same point made.
MH> John 10:25-28: "Jesus answered, 'I did tell you, but you do not
MH> believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but
MH> you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to
MH> my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal
MH> life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my
MH> hand.'"
MH> If his sheep shall never perish, the implication is that those who are
MH> not his sheep will perish.
MH> John 11:25-26: "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the
MH> life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
MH> and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe
MH> this?'"
MH> Again, same implication.
MH> John 20:31: "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus
MH> is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life
MH> in his name."
MH> Life is tied to belief.
MH> There are plenty of other examples in the synoptics; I chose to quote
MH> John because you believe its author to be an eyewitness. So here you
MH> have several unambiguous statements from Jesus himself, recorded by
an
MH> eyewitness, saying that only believers are saved. In light of that,
MH> can you really place so much confidence in your reading of Paul, not
an
MH> eyewitness, and based on such a vague reference?
Not only all these lovey points of yours, but, if those of the
Christian Belief System, really bought the fact that 'what is written
in/on their heart', the crusades wouldn't of happen. The fact that they
did happens, just goes to show, neither Christians nor the church,
bought this idea. It's a nice idea, agree, but the Belief In Jesus was
the over rideing one...then...and today.
On another note...... remember to Repent 2 seconds before your final
death Mike to be saved. It's a Jesus thing or something, else you
will share the hell of a fallen christian, like me. Now
thats a hell. .............
One day, the old sinner goes to hell. Lucifer himself introduces him:
"Good Morning, Gentleman. Beer, Wine, Champagne, Coke?"
"Whaat? All this is available here?"
"Yes, all that. And women, and tennis courts, bars ..."
"Whaat? All the good things? And what else?"
"Discos, beaches, cinemas, bordells, gambling halls ..."
"Great! But - what is behind that huge wall over there?"
"Nothing special. You wouldn't want to know."
"But I _do_!"
"Well, ok. Behind that wall is a giant fire burning."
"Aha! That's it!"
"Oh, just for the catholics - they want it that way."
* SLMR 2.1a * Pay Your Exorcist Bill or You'll Get Repossessed !!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: .
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:08:00
EID:183e 22256900
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D8
MH> AS> Now, THERE's an interesting assertion. Where does God want children
MH> AS> to be raped in the Bible? Specifically.
MH> Judges 5:30-31:
MH> "'Are they not finding and dividing the spoils: a girl or two for
MH> each man, colorful garments as plunder for Sisera, colorful garments
MH> embroidered, highly embroidered garments for my neck-- all this as
MH> plunder? So may all your enemies perish, O LORD! But may they who
MH> love you be like the sun when it rises in its strength.' Then the land
MH> had peace forty years."
He all ready knows all this shit.
MH> RV> support Your God, therefor you have to support the
rapeing
MH> RV> of the kids. It's Your God, It's Your Book, It's Your Belief. It's
your
MH> AS> ???? Ron, the whole point of the Bible, of forgiveness, of salvation,
MH> AS> is that many things happen that God does NOT approve of. Obviouisly
MH> AS> there wouldn't be a Ten Commandments if there weren't things He
was
MH> AS> warning us AGAINST.
MH> What about all those times God not only approves, but *orders*, the
MH> utter slaughter of every person in some enemy city or other?
A god, would remove FreeWill. Never. Couldn't happen.
See.......... Is Not.
See...........God's play toys and god can do dam well as god wants.
See...........But the parnets were bad/evil/what the hell people.
See...........What ever sounds good.
>*<-------------------------------------------------->*<
Al is perfect -this could be a lie-
Al is always Al right -this is the 'Al Truth Table'-
Al always has the Proper Christian Point of View -this could be a lie-
Al's God never blocks Humans FreeWill. -See Al's truth table-
Al's God never fuck's over his play toys -see humans- See Truth table-
Al & his God, displays great humanity -See Al's truth table-
>*<--------------------------------------------------->*<
>*< -- Reply not needed -- >*<
By Al S. but he is welcome
to write his novels.
>*<--------------------------------------------------->*<
Note 1: His 3 in 1 god still is welcome for a beer
but likely is too chicken to show up.
Note 2: [ 3 in 1 god could also be a 7 in 1 god. ]
[ See Al's logic truth table on math & god ]
Note 3: For Al's God ---- see ----
[ Anthropic - "see cart before a horse" - ML ]
Note 4: Evidence of an Al's god -see- what ever sounds good.
- More Al's evidence - see bible -
>*<---------------------------------------------------->*<
This post is to act as a BE_LIE_v_ER of sucking up to a Hardy.
* SLMR 2.1a * Practice Random Kindness & Senseless Acts of Beauty.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:41:00
EID:1124 22256d20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054D9
AS> AS> I don't think He does. Again, there is the passage in Romans that
AS> AS> indicates that for nonbelievers,
AS> DC> You can out think your god, yet allows that to happen?
AS> Allows what? Nonbelievers to be saved?
Pea Brain refuted you royally on that, also history of the christians
and the church back his point of view, more so then yours. Just use
the body count of the dead to show how christians don't believe that
statement.
The only Nonbelievers that are saved, is on the point of a sword
for God. That's Your God were are talking of Al.
History of the past and present, Christians still Kill those
they feel are non-christians, if they can't get away with killing
them ....... then Christians try for hate or perhaps, to project
that non_christians are less then human.
Perhaps Al, is trying to project that this has never happen. A bit
of spin_doctoring, perhaps. No. ...Never would Al do that...
Al would N E V E R Spin_Doctor the facts by ignoreing the facts.
__View of Christian Love__
" The work of a secret feminist agenda that is not about
equal rights for women.It is about a socialist,
anti-family political movement that encourages women to
leave their husbands, kill their children, practice
witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."
-- Pat Robertson on the Iowa Equal Rights Amendment --
Have a Good Heathen Day Al.
* SLMR 2.1a * Prayer,Request for annulment of the laws of the universe
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al's God of Love
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:05:00
EID:8f4e 222570a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DA
AS> Informal and direct. People at church, when they call me to lead a
AS> prayer, always like it because they get the feeling I'm TALKING to
AS> someone. I'm liable to go, "Lord, thank you for the beautiful sunset
AS> yesterday...good job! Thank you for pretty girls, good fellowship, and
the
AS> joy in kids' faces. In Jesus' name, Amen." Or in a more thoughtful vein,
AS> "Lord, someday, in a billion billion years, I hope you will allow us
to be
AS> a place where pain and trouble and evil are just an elusive memory,
a
AS> painful beginning to a wonderful existence, as we now regard
AS> childbirth...in Jesus' name we pray, Amen." That sort of thing.
Shit........ Here i figure you would be telling how you
have PROVED that Al's God is real, through this sermon of Sample Space.
"beautiful sunset" --- Atom warheads do that
"pretty girls" --- head of the line for abuse
"joy in kids faces" --- prior to rape
"thoughtful" --- what joy of the one who rapes
"billion billion" --- most get lost at a million count
If i got to wait a billion billion years to see the love of
Al's God. Fuck him and the camel it rode in on.
So how about it, Did Your God show his love of humans, By haveing
No Child Rape and abuse ........... T O D A Y ..............
Just Once Al. Just Once.........Is today the day ?
* SLMR 2.1a * Punishment Should be Cruel and Unusual,it works Better.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 05 Jan 97 18:36:00
EID:5e03 22259480
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DB
>GT> That's because he chose to pick not on myself or on Gwenny, but on
a
>GT> child who doesn't even participate in this echo, Suzanne.
AS> Yes. That does indeed make a difference. Even in flaming, there are
AS> limits, insofar as common decency is concerned. And insulting one's
kids
AS> crosses it for me...when the kids are in no way involved.
Now i see why it's no big deal when a kid gets rape. Since the
kid is involved in the act, it's ok by you. Must be, the bible OK's
to do it, Your God wants it, You Believe in your God. Your God can do no
wrong. So since the child is there in person, and it's Your God wish/Ok
it's a no big deal thing. But don't insult the kid with words, when the
kid isn't around to hear them. It also bothers Al to hear of it.
Dam, but thats a weird reglion of yours.
* SLMR 2.1a * Quark: Smallest particle in universe except fundy brain.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor...........
|Date: 05 Jan 97 18:11:00
EID:f345 22259160
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DC
AS> RS> I've considered that as well . . . or a Hardyesque/Schroeder
AS> RS> jape . . .
AS> LB> :) If that's so, then I'm in on it...
AS> LB> (walking away, whistling...)
AS> MH> You mean ... a Hardyesque/Schroederoid/Bustillozian jape?? Oh no!
AS> MH> They're all DOOMED!! :-)
AS> The Unholy Trinity.
MMMMMmmmmmmmm so those who follow a christian line of belief are unholy.
* SLMR 2.1a * Bigot? Racist? Fundy? Hate women? The GOP wants you!!!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Death & Taxes
|Date: 05 Jan 97 17:50:00
EID:cf27 22258e40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DD
GT>Heilsa, Rod Swift!
GT>Wednesday January 01 1997 21:23, Rod Swift wrote to Al Schroeder:
GT>AS>> Instead of "make love, not war", do BOTH...
GT>RS> Isn't that the institution of marriage?
GT>Freya, goddess of love and war; "If ya can't lay 'em, slay 'em."
So that was a -Y E S- then ?
* SLMR 2.1a * Replace your sex drive with a disk drive: become a sysop!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 05 Jan 97 19:23:00
EID:234f 22259ae0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DE
>GTP>> Well, for one thing, he puts up with PMS.
>RV> Wait till the female hits the so called, change of life. It makes
>RV> PMS look like childs play.
GTP>I'm not particularly worried. I've been working on it, and PMS is starting
GTP>go away. Alot of it is diet and exercise. I also take herbs. I figure
by
GTP>time I hit menopause, I'll be an adorable sweetie all the time.
With all the shit she's gone through. I'm glad i'm not female.
GTP>RV> Mistress J, claims i must love her, since
GTP>RV> i haven't killed her yet. Poor lass, it's really shakeing her
up.
GTP>Mistress J, oh, she sounds like someone I would like to meet.
I've tried to get her to post or at least read this area, another who
hates computers and is afraid to speakup to strangers.
Thats why i use the Mistress J in hopes she will break down and
crack a 4x4 over my head in a reply. Instead i just get my ear torn
off when we're together.
* SLMR 2.1a * Being born again increases the chances of birth defects.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 05 Jan 97 19:28:00
EID:eebf 22259b80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054DF
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Ronald say to Gwenny:
>GTP>> It's times like this that I wish there were some higher court to
go t
>GTP>> for would bang on the doors of it until someone answered and I'd
deck
>GTP>> 'em.
>RV> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>RV> Agree. Though you may have to stand in line, along with others.
GTP>Hey, I'm attached to deities, I have priority.
Sure..sure... drag your god&goddess into the picture. I'm afraid
by the time you got finish with the spook, there wouldn't be enought
left to jump on. I'm only a little runt, there would be lots left over
for you to bat around.
* SLMR 2.1a * Books are the sunshine of the mind
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: APOLOGY TO JUDITH
|Date: 05 Jan 97 19:32:00
EID:c896 22259c00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D054E0
> AS> Definitely. I publicly apologize to Judith for releasing more
> AS> information than she wanted, though, about said picture.
> RV> You can't pull that stunt. Don't you know, a 'Real True Christian'
> RV> can't be sorry. Now bad to the book of lies, and learn the proper
AS> Rather, I would say a real true Christian can't help but be sorry for
AS> some things. Unfortunately...
Drop the 'real' and try a True Christian, for if you are true
the reality will show.
> RV> way of doing it. IOW......Back on that cross....BOY.
> RV> We got a bunch of harp's down here, and the points have been baked.
> RV> Target lad, we need a target.
AS> Yessir! Oh, and drive those nails in harder! They don't hurt enough...
Nails ? ...... who said anything about nails.
* SLMR 2.1a * Cat philosophy: When in doubt, cop an attitude.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Will do Satan's work for S E X *-* (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 03 Jan 97 01:31:02
EID:1905 22230be0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32d1fc94
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Sue Alexander <=-
MB> Thank you for your concern. It is almost certain that they will do
MB> radiation therapy on both her head and her lung. They seem
MB> confident they can give her perhaps one good-quality year that she
MB> will not otherwise have. She is optimistic about that year being a
MB> good one of fairly high quality. I hope she's right.
I hope so also.
MB> They have arranged things so the only way my fundy brother can get
MB> any information about her condition is by phoning either me, my
MB> husband Lou, or Eileen's partner, Chris. He brought it on himself,
MB> but will never understand what he did to cause this. I'm certain
MB> he just thinks we're being mean for the sake of meanness, but when
MB> he called one of Eileen's doctors after 8 the other evening, at
MB> her home, that tore it. "But you're my sister" was just not a good
MB> enough excuse for that serious a breach of protocol.
(...)
I'm glad that you both were able to remove him from the information
and decision process without totally removing him from all information.
When a friend of mine died a couple of years ago, she ended up just not
telling some of her family members that she was gravely ill to make sure
that she would be able to maintain a "do not rescitate" order. The
family member that she most wanted to not be told was one who she
considered unstable, and she could not be certain that the family member
would not override the do not rescisitate order at the last minute.
Luckily, everything was alot better than it could have been at the end,
though the methods used were somewhat extreme.
Hopefully, things will work out much more smoothly for your family.
Sue
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 03 Jan 97 01:42:29
EID:a055 22230d40
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32d1fc95
-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Sue Alexander <=-
SA> Don't forget the CURRENT ban on birth control methods
SA> (other than the rhythym method) that is currently held by
SA> the Roman Catholic Church. They have to fill the pews, you
SA> know, even though there are not enough priests to go around!
RS> I didn't forget, I just took it as a given that he knew about
RS> current events. I do believe the Rhythym Method best
RS> illustrates that most people can't hold a beat . . .
It is a most useful method for getting pregnant, isn't it? ;)
Maybe that's the idea...
Sue
... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC
|Date: 03 Jan 97 01:57:56
EID:f6cf 22230f20
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32d1fc96
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Sue Alexander <=-
JS> Certainly. Any 'god' who could 'breathe' the truths of His
JS> scripture into the minds/hands of men, could/would be able to keep
JS> it true down through the milleniums.
SA> And which version of the bible is true, and why? The different
SA> translations say things differently...sometimes only minor
SA> differences, but sometimes the differences are very significant.
SA> If God had 'breathed' truth into the translations, should they not
SA> say the same things?
JS> When interpreted by itself and the Holy Spirit, scripture remains
JS> pure and true to itself. It is, after all, the complete _written_
JS> manifestation of God.
So which version is the "true" version, Jim? Failing that, how
does one know that the Holy Spirit is guiding them on the path that God
has chosen, when there are so many paths out there with the claim of
being the "one, true, chosen by the Holy Spirit" path?
Sue
... "God has no religion" -- Mahatma Gandhi
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 05 Jan 97 00:32:46
EID:aadd 22250400
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32d1fc97
-=> Quoting Lee Woofenden to David Rice <=-
LW> Here's what David Rice said to Lee Woofenden about Why don't we see
LW> God[sic]:
LW> Here's something to add to the discussion about why
LW> we don't usually see God[sic].
DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods,
DR> "non-usually" or otherwise?
LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts, so there's not much point
LW> in discussing it.
This has me confused. Are you saying that there are people who
actually have seen God, or are you just referring to seeing God's works
and knowing who it/they are attributable to?
Sue
... "Politicians should be presumed guilty until found guilty." Heinlein
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 608 827-6755 (1:121/45)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:55:13
EID:ec57 222666e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f6
AS> Well...both.
AS> You're perfectly right in that Jesus said He was sent to save "the
lost
AS> sheep of Israel" and called Gentiles "dogs", which is more offensive
than
AS> the English appears. However, he ALSO makes the analogy of the vinyard,
AS> saying that if the stewards rejected the owner of the vinyard, they'd
have
AS> to bring in new stewards. When Jesus was preaching, it was still iffy
GT> If I understand the import of that analogy, that still leaves open the
GT> question of whether the 'vinyard' was Israel or the world. The
GT> comments I previously cited would IMO imply the former meaning rather
GT> than the latter. Even if the latter was intended, that would still
GT> be the world that the writer was aware of at the time the piece was
GT> written, which wouldn't extend very far beyond Israel/Palestine/Judea.
Yeah. Personally I think it really meant those chosen to do God's work.
So
it can apply to whatever field of operation God chooses. But your
interpretation might be as good as mine.
GT> I still don't see how whatever relation between the new followers of
GT> Jeshua/Saul and the Jewish establishment could be reasonably presumed
GT> to control the rest of the world (the majority).
Only in the same sense that Newton's laws of motion bind even those who
do
not know of them. Similarly, whatever the truth of existence, it will bind
ANYONE who exists...even if they don't believe or know of same.
... It's the cats' house. We just pay the mortgage.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:21:46
EID:e64f 22266aa0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f7
DC> Al, I don't know of a particular pattern, per se, but there are
DC> patterns in Pi. At one point, the calculation started doing
DC> a number of repeated sequences. And, I know that has happened
DC> more than once as the "final" value of Pi is attempted. For
DC> a while, one of those sequences seemed like it would be "the one".
DC> I'm not cure, but I think Asimov comments on one of sequences.
Thanks, Dan. Did you ever read the end of Carl Sagan's CONTACT where the
aliens find a pattern within pi...a pattern which seems to be a signal
from whoever constructed mathematics and the universe?
... "A man's character is his fate." -- Heraclitus
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: IN PASSING
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:33:09
EID:0c2c 22266c20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f8
AS> Thanks for the reference. Let me read it and see what he's
AS> referring to.
DR> There are at least half a dozen "popularized" books on chaos
DR> theory, as far as I know. One book that comments on the
DR> topic is "Black Holes and Baby Universes." He either implied
DR> or stated right out (I read the book a long time ago) that it
DR> was his conviction that all of the laws of physics are derived
DR> by a few laws. The Uncertainty Principle makes these few prime
DR> laws chaotic, but their interaction among themselves produces
DR> near-stable "laws" that we observe in action.
Hmmmm. I THOUGHT I read that book, but it's been over a year for me, too.
DR> A few months ago James Staal in here said that the planets
DR> orbiting Sol were not chaotic (implying that a god therefore
DR> set them in motion). We humans see order in the solar system
DR> as a whole, but it is highly chaotic in its individual members.
DR> Hawking used the solar system as his example for a chaotic
DR> sub-system inducing a harmonic whole.
Unless you happen to be the dinosaurs, when an comet slams into
Earth... But I get what you mean.
DR> _Scientific_American_ even had a hobby corner article on how
DR> one may build two chaotic systems (machines) that, when
DR> combined (magnetically) produce a stable system.
Neat! I may do a search for that.
... "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" - Ockham
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:38:28
EID:26fa 22266cc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f9
AS> Mr. British Mensa, to my mind, gave it all away, when he said he
AS> respected SEAN'S sense of humor, and almost nobody else's on this
AS> taking ALL his statements, from now on, with a large grain of salt.
DC> I hit the key quite quickly when he posts. Best guess it
DC> that those 400 personal messages he gets each day are from people
DC> telling him to shut up.
Could be. As you see, I answer a lot a day. But 400??? He may be just
getting junk email...
... Common sense isn't really all that common.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:43:15
EID:2eaa 22266d60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5fa
SA>> Holysmoke itself is but a fevered figment of the imagination. We
SA>> all just share a common delusion. :)
AS> Sometimes VERY common indeed...
GtP> Hey, hey! I am not common at all.
You're right...goddesses aren't common at all...
... Aphrodite does it with everyone! (And respects them in the morning)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:55:25
EID:f9c3 22266ee0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5fb
AS>> The only thing wrong with masturbation is loneliness. And the Bible
AS>> doesn't say a thing about it.
GtP> I don't know the exact place, but either proverbs or psalms says that
GtP> it is better for a man to put his seed in the belly of a whore than
to
GtP> spill it on the ground.
I'm not sure of that one. I do know Onan got zapped for "spilling his seed
on the ground" but that's because he wouldn't consummate his marriage the
way the Hebrew law set it up.
But I'll try to look it up. If it does say that (not doubting you,
Gwenny, just not familiar with it) it's probably Jerry Fallwell's favorite
verse! I'll look for it...
(If it goes into a cup or the toilet, is it better?>
And leave us face it, it IS better, unless you catch something...of
course a willing wife or partner is much better....OTOH, it's an
interesting way to get the economy going...
Oops. Back to the pious boy scout mode. As you were.
... Fly Heisenberg Air! Dunno where we are, but we're making good time.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: MOORCOCK echo
|Date: 06 Jan 97 13:59:53
EID:9936 22266f60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5fc
AS> You should have responses in this packet.
SQ> Got 'em! Now I just need to send a blurb to Christopher Baker for the
SQ> Fidonews. :)
Glad to be aboard.
... Imagination is more important than knowledge... - Einstein
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 06 Jan 97 14:02:26
EID:a5e7 22267040
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5fd
AS> My religion will save them with a word, a simple asking for
AS> forgiveness. It has made millions want to join, yes.
DC> Don't you notice the "small" problem with extortion, Al?
Asking forgiveness is extortion???
Anyway, it also promises that we will have a cross to bear in this life,
and that the world shall despise the believer. So it ALSO promises that
we'll have it pretty rough in the here and now.
... It IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: My Wife ? Evidence of
|Date: 06 Jan 97 14:20:22
EID:a1a5 22267280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5fe
AS> Millions, at least. But it's irrelevant. I can demonstrate that every
AS> other woman in the world isn't my wife, in a case by case basis, besides
AS> my wife. The number of women---and the time it would take...is irrelevant.
RV> He may have you by the short hairs again..............
RV> To do that, you would have to show that a soul doesn't get reincarnate
RV> again , to do so, then you would also have to provide
RV> EVIDENCE that there is a soul. Just to show that another women of
RV> earth or soul, hasn't been your wife at sometime or the other.
Only if my wife was dead, surely? (Which she is anything BUT...)
RV> I will await with baited breath, for the evidence of a soul. Testable
RV> by humans please, then we can progress to your evidence testable> that the only women that you know of, has always
RV> been your wife, during the history of the human race. Make it easy for
RV> you, for race, passed 6000 years . Give or take a year.
Ok. Do I get to test their lovemaking skills? (Hey, this could be FUN...)
RV> Are you sure that you can "demonstrate that every other women in the
RV> world isn't my wife" . . . with testable evidence ?
In a way that would be legally valid? Certainly. Barb has two tattoos,
very specific, in very specific parts of her body, which are not likely
to
be reproduced by anyone else (especially the wording) at any place and
time. Now, can I prove Cleopatra is not a previous incarnation of Barb--or
more likely, Elanor of Aquitaine? No. But since no jury in the world can
establish that she IS, then it is a moot point. I'm not oblidged to prove
a negative, Ron.
... Hell hath no fury like an unjustified assumption.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 06 Jan 97 14:41:54
EID:ef72 22267520
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ff
AS> Because we don't talk about, for instance, American settlers waging
a
AS> "war" against the bufallo, a "war" against the passenger pigeon, or
AS> prehistoric man doing a "war" against the woolly mammoth. We don't
LB> Ah, but don't we? Got a local exterminator here talking about waging
LB> war against cockroaches on his commercials.
Well, commercials also have cute insects running in terror at the word
"RAID", so it seems a suspect source....
LB> We also, in common language, wage war against NONliving things, i.e.
LB> "the war on drugs".
But are we warring on the substances, or on the people who move the
substances where they can get distributed?
LB> War is the organized hostility of one group upon another - why need
LB> the term be restricted to those two groups being of a common species?
LB> In the situation of 'aliens', couldn't the common denominator between
LB> the two groups simply be that of intelligent organisms?
Certainly it COULD be, Lynda. But it is an expansion of the term. In the
world as we observe, man "wars" with his own species. Ants "war" with
ants. Men and ants...though both warmakers...do not "war" with each other.
Even when ants overrun a house.
AS> say Brother Branham, hunting his squirrels, was doing a "war" against
AS> squirrels, either.
LB> No, the squirrel was merely a target provided by god. which goes back
LB> to my original statement above...on of the ways in which we dehumanize
LB> those we seek to destroy (so as to justify that destruction) is to
LB> insist that the almighty is on our side and wants us to win.
So isn't it MORE dehumanizing to say that those we engage wars in are the
equivelent to exterminating insects?
AS> We do speak of wars between humans and humans...or ants to ants.
AS> But an anteater is not waging a war against ants. He's just hungry.
LB> Yep. But were the tourists on the trains firing into the buffalo herds
LB> just doing so because they were "hungry"?
No. They were doing it for kill-lust. But they weren't waging war. Did we
negotiate a peace with the buffallo at the end? Did they sue for peace
terms? Was there even a possibility of negotiation?
LB> "War" is merely a term...you are fighting for a definition of it that
LB> doesn't match how it is commonly used by the English language, in
LB> fiction or otherwise.
I would argue otherwise. You would REALLY have to stretch it to fit
interspecies conflict as "war". It is you who are going against the common
usage. Do lions "war" on antelope?
LB> Oh...or in theology, either. There is an entire section in the local
LB> christian bookstore here, labelled "Spiritual Warfare". The concept
is
LB> spelled out in 2 Corinthians 10:3-6:
LB> For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
LB> for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely
LB> powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying
LB> speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of
LB> God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of
LB> Christ, and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your
LB> obedience is complete."
LB> Now, Al....is that, as many here will surely see it, a declaration of
LB> war against them, as heathens, pagans, fellow people? Or is it talking
LB> about warring with one's thoughts?
Thought against thought? Certainly.
... Ancestors not found...do I really exist?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Pick on poor mike 1/2
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:09:02
EID:6097 22267920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b600
AS> Well, you can believe what you want, Ron. I know who to believe about
AS> some things. I believe Mike.
RV> Lets wait for his next 'life crisis' and see if he still follows his
RV> current path/idea.
Hmmm. Well, a lot of us go through CONINUING crises...
AS> The above seems a poor way to win him to your position...i.e., that
God is
RV> As i said to you before Al. I have no position to win anyone too.
RV> As too a poor way, no doult at all. Then to in my defence, i can also
RV> say i saw no hurt in what message Mike did post, no rage, no anger.
To
RV> me it was a safe statement, if not, like i said to Mini, Mike will
RV> kick my ass all over the place , and it will be -HIS- Right to do so.
Yes. It would. But that's between you and Mike.
AS> unjust, or that belief in Him is silly (is that a fair summation of
your
AS> views? If you want me to qualify it, just tell me which direction).
I
AS> have asked about his wife fairly recently, and she seems to be doing
AS> fairly well, given her infirmity. But it would be better to ask Mike
AS> directly.
RV> Mike has posted his reason in this mail packet. It's enought for now.
RV> Like i said, Time will tell.
Good. And yes, it will.
AS> You must do what you think best, of course, Ron. I DID choose to raise
AS> children, and at least with my speaking son, I don't think he'll be
AS> exposed to any belief system that will overcome his own questioning,
RV> And i say, You have allowed it to over come your ability to
RV> question and solve. Thats just me, perhaps you are just fooling you
RV> and you haven't caught up to it yet.
Well, opinions differ on that. I'm fairly comfortable with my ability to
question and solve, but maybe I'm not the best judge...
AS> including my own. And my eldest, his class is often accompanied by young
AS> earnest Mormon helpers when they go on field trips. Do I worry about
it?
AS> No. Despite the many things I think Mormonism has wrong, I am grateful
AS> that they care enough to help.
RV> I have no doubt, that there are DAM GOOD CHRISTIANS in a postion of
RV> teaching/leadership. Too dam few maybe, but some will always rise to
RV> the top. Belief or not, gods or not. It's like us being here Al, shit
RV> happens, some times it's good shit, some times it's bad shit.
Too true.
RV> Retoric aside, I do class you in the good shit part, so your
RV> confuse, what can we say.
Well, that's the closest thing to a compliment I've gotten from you
lately, and I DO appreciate it. May I return it.
AS> Wellll...depends on which pagan belief system. Just ask the worshippers
of
AS> Molech...or for that matter, Giles de Retz. Ron...ANY belief system
in a
AS> supernatural creator or overseer of the world, allows catastrophes and
AS> horrendous crimes to happen. Cernunnos allows child rapes. So does Zeus.
AS> (Heck, Zeus literally raped his own mother...THERE's a role model for
AS> you.) Odin also allows it.
RV> Yes Al. I do read books. I do understand how some of the pagen belief
RV> systems did things in the past. It is the past. The pagens i have met,
RV> or those who think they are pagen don't match the current christian
RV> belief system in abuse. It's the current ideas that are the problem
in
RV> this day and age, it's this day and age that effects me and those i
RV> care of. That some of the ideas may of come from the pass is something
RV> i do understand. It's the -ROLE- Model of Today I think of. The
RV> Christian wish to dictate MY LIFE, My way of LIVEING, not the pagens.
RV> You mess with mylife, and since i live in a socity that so fars allow
RV> me to fight it in the open, I will speak out. You bury me brother, then
RV> you got a BIG Problem, you better kill me to be safe, oups, some
RV> Christians do that now, don't they ?
Ron; do you really think that if pagan ways were the norm, not the
exception, there wouldn't be some influence that way? Just judging from
the past...I'm not as sure as you.
RV> No problem with your god or gods Al, nor with all the god or goddess
RV> of the pagen belief system. You start to try to dictate my life and
RV> point to your god/dess for the reason on the way i should live my LIFE.
RV> There you got a problem. Then too, we all ready know that, don't we
Al.
Yep.
AS> Well, I'M convinced. Mike means what he says.
RV> For now.
That's all anyone can say. I might become an atheist tomorrow--or a Wiccan
high priest.
AS> An open question, perhaps.
RV> To be fair Al, it must be left open. Right ?
Agreed.
AS> Ah. You see no difference then?
RV> In his posting ? Yes. Big difference. He's allowing his humor ability
RV> to come out. Kind of like, since he's not takeing himself so serious,
RV> he's now open to see a posible humor -straight line-. Kind of like,
RV> why there is hope for you.
Thank'ee kindly.
AS> You're comparing Mike to Hitler?
RV> Not Hitler, but to the act, that hitler passed off. A con job, a sting
RV> yet to have the curtain brought down on the last act. A act of see how
RV> easy it is to fool you silly heathens, never forgetting, that we all
RV> would like the group on this side of the fence. Fence can apply to any
RV> human endeavor, humans are pack animals. We will die if alone and by
RV> ourselfs, no better then your ant that is lost from it's nest.
And I have an advantage, in that I see Mike sometimes on #irc. If it was
an act...which I'm convinced it's not...it's an awfully consistent one.
So
I get him in TWO mediums, not just one.
... Actually it's not replying that takes time, it's choosing a tagline.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Pick on poor mike 2/2
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:10:20
EID:6067 22269940
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b601
RV> A person, call it Mr.T. I see his acts of what i think are lies, i
RV> see him twist his tales of his life/actions. I
RV> see him cheat people of money or their ego/feelings. One day he comes
RV> to me and says, WHY don't you trust me, I've Change, I know i've done
RV> things wrong, I'm makeing amends. etc..etc...
Right, we've all been in that position...
RV> Now through liveing in this world, I've seen Mr.T. action in others
RV> before, sometimes it real, sometimes it's NOT.
Yep. That's a risk we all take...
RV> My biggest problem is I respect this Mr. T. for abilities I wish i
RV> had, I want to believe him, I would like him as a friend. I see
RV> benifits for for both of us, with the shareing. B U T life has
RV> taught me that most times it will be false, be aware that
it
RV> could be a con.
RV> -end of story line-
Think about it this way, Ron. He's been one of Christianity's most vocal
supporters here, and quite frankly endured a lot of written abuse for his
stands. He is now back here, recanting some of his former position, with
people he used to fight a lot with (like Ceppa). That takes a lot of guts.
And when his fraud is exposed, no one will ever believe him again on
ANYTHING. Does that sound like Mike? It doesn't to me.
RV> So i will wait, I will bait, I will stir up anger to see the reaction.
RV> Then i will judge and go by that. I'm I wrong, could be. Will it
RV> always work, NOPE. Will it last, a posible. So like i said, time will
RV> tell.
It will indeed.
RV> I'm I being fair, not likely since I've been burn more then once, but
RV> also in a way I am being fair, since the door is still open.
RV> Like history, time will tell which side the coin turns up, heads or
RV> tails, in the mean time i will always question the why and how come.
RV> If i do it to myself, for myself, why not others.
Gotcha. But if I were you I wouldn't say anything that would burn any
possible bridges between you and Mike. You may find you have more in
common than you currently believe...and who would have credited THAT
months ago?
... Die smiling, life is too important to take seriously.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: superstition two
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:25:17
EID:72bd 22269b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b602
AS> Odd that it would convince Paul, writing just twenty years later, and
at
AS> one point a profound skeptic, of its authenticity. Or do we doubt Paul
AS> existed, or his own account of his life, about being a former enemy
of the
AS> church?
GT> Not if one takes the POV that Paul was highly perceptive of what
GT> claims and tactics would reap _him_ the most benefit at any particular
GT> time.
(Thinking about Paul in chains, or shipwrecked, nearly stoned by an
infuriated mob,being sent to the Emperor, in a cell at the end of his
life...) Maybe we should define "benefit".
... Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Best Of Al & His God.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 15:27:01
EID:d6f4 22267b60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b603
-=> Quoting J.J. Hitt to Ronald Vass <=-
JH> On Dec 27 18:19 96, Ronald Vass of 1:221/1503 wrote:
RV> God Al and rapeing of children. [...]
JH> Don't you know what you just said?
JH> You've put Al in the pantheon, along with God Dan.
(Modest cough...) If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not
serve...
... Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical. Virgins are.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: What a picture
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:11:56
EID:323f 22269960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b604
AS> AS> participants here, and Mike's is TRULY funny...his face plastered
on a
AS> Or I may get attack by a Harp Missile or three
AS> Tsk. Don't use THAT word...you will profane the mysteries...
RV> Which word ? Harp ? Missile ? three ?
RV> Just trying to see how deep of a hole we can dig here.
Three, of course. As in...three aspects of the Trinity, Three coins in a
fountain, Three Furies, Three Norns, Three Fates, Three Animaniacs (Yakko,
Wakko, and Dot...)
AS> RV> Well...you could be upside down like the Christians of yor, with
the
AS> RV> Witchs of Eastwick, setting fire to the fags.
AS> Actually, that would have been funny...but she went a different route.
But
RV> Good. It's still open then. Actually with the east_Wick, tied to the
RV> Fags and a witch at the start of the action,with the body upside down.
RV> And this day and age of useing the word 'fags', well, i thought it
RV> made a good straingt line. Dam! ... It wasn't jump on. ... Another
one
Rod Swift might get on to you for that one...
AS> LOL!!! Yes, there were all sort of possibilities....
RV> There could be that.
It's a funny idea, HSers as she sees them. If you ever get internet
access, look it up.
AS> RV> Drive them spikes in harder . . . this crown of thorns is giveing
me a
AS> RV> headach.
AS> It's a thorny problem...
RV> I was going for a smile, at least a
Sorry, I should have put a at the end...
AS> RV> Christ Al, the resurrecting target.
AS>
RV> You keep comeing back for more, you can't resist.
Right you are. It feeds my martyr complex.
AS> Truly wise words, Ron.
RV> So..... now and then i almost get it right.
Which is more than a lot of us can say....
RV> And you can never remember how you did it right the last
RV> time. Women can be as hard to understand as a cat, what works
RV> today , doesn't or may not, work tomorrow.
Too true. My wife and I have joked if I ever understand her, all the
mystery will be gone from the marriage. I'm not worried......if I live
to be a thousand, I doubt I'd always understand her.
... RAM = Rarely Adequate Memory
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Joe Shedlock
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Adultery, etc.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:01:03
EID:e499 22260820
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d14ae6
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Joe Shedlock on 03 Jan 97 08:27:02 <=-
DW> Wednesday January 01 1997 13:02, Joe Shedlock wrote to Sue Armstrong:
KW>> Anyway, Glen didn't say that pagans are unfaithful, he said that
KW>> as we pagan women are not the property of our men, the concept of
KW>> 'adultery' doesn't apply to us.
SA>> Frankly, I don't see the point in "open" marriages. If both (or
JS> Frankly, I see a legalistic-contractual view of marriage as
JS> unrealistic.
DW> Frankly, that strikes me as rather like saying "Fuck it. No one is
DW> perfect, so why even try?"
That's not what I said. Try all you want to be faithful, and try all
you want to encourage others to do so too. Still, frequent infidelity
is going to go on, and a model or concept of marriage that does not
take this fact into account is unrealistic, IMHO.
DW> Katherine logic: Since men have never been considered the property of
DW> their wives, the concept of "adultery" doesn't apply to men.
The pledges of fidelity in the traditional marriage vows are mutual
and reciprocal, and adultery by the husband has long been considered
grounds for divorce.
It is true that some social and legal systems, like that in ancient Rome,
conceived of adultery in such a way that only the wife could commit it,
and the husband was free to have sexual relations outside of marriage.
But that has not been the officially recognized concept in our society.
... This tagline is made just for David Worrell
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Joe Shedlock
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Public Service Ads
|Date: 06 Jan 97 01:08:09
EID:898b 22260900
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d14ae7
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Joe Shedlock on 03 Jan 97 08:21:14 <=-
DW> Wednesday January 01 1997 13:36, Joe Shedlock wrote to Sue Armstrong:
SA>> It takes experience and hard
SA>> knocks to learn when and to whom to say "yes" and "no". And some
SA>> people simply don't ever learn.
JS> All the more reason for somewhat formal classes or role-playing
JS> exercises. We have classes for virtually everything else,
JS> from touch typing to dancing lessons to soccer practice, etc., why
JS> not for this if it is so important and if the need is not being met
JS> informally?
DW> The fundies are against *any* form of sex education, for one thing.
So, I guess it would have to be done in spite of them.
... This tagline is made just for David Worrell
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:29:11
EID:e78f 222633a0
MSGID: 1:207/212 9f8f53a5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 7314b296
On (02 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Karen Davis...
MG> Steroids are given to dry up the milk mass..however I read up a bit
MG> and asked a few questions since I first saw this. One of the medical
MG> problems with abortions is that little is done for the long term. A
MG> shot of Rho Gam is given tot he Rh negative woman to prevent her from
MG> immunologically rejecting any Rh postiive kids. Her bleeding is
MG> checked and perhaps some physcological help is given in the case of
MG> trauman, but I haven't been able to find anyone who can tell me if
MG> steroids are given to these woman. While breast milk is not there int
MG> he first trimester, the mammaries to expand with something to prepare
MG> them for milk production.
That's the problem.
MG> Now, we do know that a lack of breast feeding is connected to cancer.
MG> It may be through an imunological phenomenae. But is breast milk the
MG> real casue or is it something else that is present early in pregancy
MG> that is not dealt with adequatley after the abortion? I claim
MG> ignorance on this.
So this isn't an abortion problem, it's a "pregnancy without
breastfeeding" problem. That makes a lot of sense to me. And if we can
find a medication a woman can take for a week afterwards, then the
idiots can drop this line of argument.
... Forrest the Pooh: "Life is like a Jar of Honey..."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:30:34
EID:de73 222633c0
MSGID: 1:207/212 5480ad8c
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ce1a2f
On (04 Jan 97) Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Karen Davis...
Gt> Where were you when we were trying to find homes for the wolf puppies?
Wouldn't have taken one anyway. Wolves are wild animals, IMO, and I
don't have the ability to handle a wild animal of that size, however
close it might be related to a domesticated one.
... Intel's Pentium: Optimized for OS/1.997683
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:32:10
EID:b4b6 22263400
MSGID: 1:207/212 0051a4e8
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf0f78
On (04 Jan 97) Nate Cookson wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> That "one" doesn't have any rights yet because they're not born yet.
KD> It's that simple. Birth is the beginning of rights.
NC> This kind of logic is so stupid it's pathetic! Accoriding to
NC> this 5 minutes before it's birth, it's not human.. but as soon
as
NC> the
NC> baby makes it out, it's human!! So what happen at that moment of
NC> Birth that made it more human than just before it was born?
The thing that happened at birth was disconnection from another human
being. Up to that point every single thing about that fetus depended on
the mother. After that point any care that remains can be given by any
competent adult or even older child. Thus the slavery of the woman is
over.
I said RIGHTS, not humanity. And 5 minutes before birth, the "baby" is
in the birth canal clearly coming out, so there's no justification for
abortion except in the most dire of situations. Further, the *ability*
to live on its own is enough for me to grant consideration of the late
gestation fetus. Not rights, per se. I don't have a problem with
restrictions on abortion in the last trimester or after viability.
They're justified based on the safety of the woman anyway.
You are the one equating a just fertilized egg with 5 minutes before
delivery. How do you justify that?
... If you play Satanic music backwards, do you get hymns?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:36:24
EID:a9f6 22263480
MSGID: 1:207/212 2e176285
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A672A88
On (03 Jan 97) Judith Bandsma wrote to Karen Davis...
JB> Not much. Neutered dogs who already have their CH (before they were
JB> neutered) can compete in Veteran's class. Neutered dogs CAN compete
JB> anywhere else, though. Frankly, if I was showing for sport, it would
JB> have to be someplace where the dog could show more than just good
JB> looks.
That's what I feel. I don't like dogs being shown just for looks.
JB> Obedience, herding, tracking, agility (though not too heavy on brain
JB> requirements here) Schutzhund. Ok, so neutered dogs are frowned upon
JB> in Schutz, but there's no rule keeping them out.
Interesting. Glad to hear it has opened up some, though.
... Ecky Ecky Ecky pTANG Bing whing prrn zhrrn-wup
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:37:14
EID:e6e9 222634a0
MSGID: 1:207/212 b733e609
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32cf9c6f
On (05 Jan 97) Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Karen Davis...
Gt> This is something I don't understand. Maybe it is just because I grew
Gt> up seeing sex as a way to survive, a way to keep from getting beaten.
Gt> Sex and love are to TOTALLY different.
That could be, but at least in me they are absolutely connected. I could
not even consider having a brief affair, even if I were single. I need
to be able to trust someone, and that doesn't come easy.
KD> Consider a man whose wife cannot have relations with him. He is given
KD> permission to satisfy his needs elsewhere. It is very easy for me to
KD> imagine that he could easily fall in love with some woman he is sleeping
KD> with, despite his love for his wife.
Gt> If I couldn't do my "wifely duty" I would encourage my husband to have
Gt> a woman and bring her home. I have seen several very successful
Gt> multiple marriages.
That might indeed be a solution.
Gt> I think the mistake here is seeing romantic love as a one to one
Gt> thing, too. I have been "in love" several times. I could, without
Gt> the least provocation, be "in love" with two persons I know (one man,
Gt> one woman) right now. I could do this without affecting my current
Gt> relationship. I expect I am the exception, though.
Maybe so. I'm sure it is possible to be in love with 2 individuals,
though for me that would be exceedingly confusing.
Gt> Perhaps I am just weird, too damaged by the abuse.
Those sexually abused often turn off the connection to save their
sanity, or never build it [depending on whether you think it's innate or
emotionally created in the teens]. You're not alone, though since sex
was never part of the abuse I suffered I can't say it's true of me.
KD> I also believe differences in sexual needs can be worked out. A
Gt> That assumes desire to do so by both partners.
Isn't that part of "love"? Wanting to work out problems of any kind?
KD> Let's turn it around - let's say I'm involved in an Email exchange
KD> with a man on the other side of the country, and it turns from
KD> flirtatious to romantic. At what point have I crossed the line? [Yes,
KD> this is hypothetical, but based on thinking brought about by a close
KD> email friendship with a man that has decidedly NOT crossed the line
KD> and is not likely to.]
Gt> At the point you don't feel comfortable letting your husband see your
Gt> posts.
That might be an interesting way to look at it, but to use the example
of my real friendship which hasn't crossed any lines, I'm already not
comfortable with it because we joke and flirt. My husband might
misunderstand.
... SYSOP: The guy that is laughing at your typing!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: RE: "FLAT EARTH" TOWN
|Date: 06 Jan 97 07:55:57
EID:44ca 22263ee0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5da
DW> That is one problem with living in West Virgina: I hate country
DW> music. Well, 90% of it, at least.
Try living in Nashville. (Although most native Nashvillians don't play
country music...that's for tourists. We just take the money.)
... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 06 Jan 97 07:59:19
EID:ee22 22263f60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5db
AS> Nope, not yet. I'll keep an eye out... And back to the "barbarian".
I
AS> think Glen would enjoy being the subject of a Frazetta Conanish cover,
AS> with a battle-axe, halfway steeped in gore, and at least one adoring,
AS> scantily clad female clutching at him.... He just strikes me as that
AS> kind of guy...of course, you would know better...
GT> Hmmm... What a concept. (Although I'm getting a little grey for
GT> Frazetta's sword-swingers.) I'll have to see what we can come up
GT> with.
I'm sure Gwenny would like to cooperate...
... Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 06 Jan 97 08:05:45
EID:9c72 222640a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5dc
AS> Nope, not yet. I'll keep an eye out... And back to the "barbarian".
I
AS> think Glen would enjoy being the subject of a Frazetta Conanish cover,
AS> with a battle-axe, halfway steeped in gore, and at least one adoring,
AS> scantily clad female clutching at him.... He just strikes me as that
AS> kind of guy...of course, you would know better...
GtP> I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. Of course, he
GtP> would very politely and respectfully take said female home and be on
GtP> his merry way . . . heroes, who understands 'em?
Some would. Some wouldn't. Solomon Kane would. Galahad would. Superman
would. However, both Conan and James Bond would very chivalrously oblidge
the girl.
... Millions for chaos, not one cent for entropy.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 06 Jan 97 08:12:55
EID:fb7b 22264180
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5dd
AS> Dave, I saw it...but I'll be honest with you. Prophecies are, at the
very
AS> least, a matter of interpretation, and arguing which prophecies came
true
AS> is a bottomless morrass, and finally, I had more than enough stuff to
AS> address directed specifically at ME. I actually agreed with a lot
of
AS> your points but with all the other stuff I had to answer, I didn't feel
AS> like wading through 23 messages going--"well, I agree here, no, I disagree
AS> there..." etc.
RV> As Al, ate of the Harpy pie............
If you say so.
RV> So ......Rapture happen, and your really just a fake Al Schroeder
RV> placed here by Satan, to con the heathens. We just KNOW ...
RV> the real Al, would of answer some of them, if not them all. Giveing
RV> various authors to agree with what ever point Al was trying to make.
RV> Plus at least 10 pages of post for every point given. It's an Al
RV> thing. You slip up again.
You're right, it's a Satanic plot...
RV> Give it Up Satan, Your Demon is uncovered. The true light of day, has
RV> uncovered your helper by the words from its own posting.
Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name....
RV> The Real Al, would of done it very different.
By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes...
... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: .
|Date: 06 Jan 97 08:37:38
EID:a0cf 222644a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5de
RV> belief of god Even Al's most quoted authors, don't or won't come out
RV> and claim god is the god of the jews,therefore the christian take off
RV> god story. Then too, perhaps those books that i have read aren't the
Bingo. But of course, we need to establish A God before we argue the
particular type of God.
RV> ones that do show that final statement. For sure they know more then
i,
RV> but i would still want to try and follow their path and see if i get
RV> the same answer. If 1+1=2 and 2+2=4 and 1+2=god, logic like that, even
RV> i should be able to follow. Alas this god that wants all to believe
in
RV> him/her/it, has confuse the picture much worst then that.
RV> A all knowing god, will know what a simple picture i need for my
RV> belief, shit i'm slated for the garbage heap, i can't see the picture.
RV> The mother earth goddess at least gives evidence to me, if i abuse her
RV> ground. ie: the fruit doesn't grow or grow well action=effect
Gaia's fine, and respect is called for. But I like a little wider range
of
God, since we look into the depths of the universe and see so many
wonders. A goddess concerned only with the earth is, comparatively, a very
small goddess after all.
... THIEF! THIEF! THIEF! BAGGINS! WE HATES IT...FOR EVER! - Gollum
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: .
|Date: 06 Jan 97 08:58:14
EID:a0cf 22264740
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5df
AS> AS> I will await with baited breath your proof of the "pattern"
AS> AS> within pi.
AS> RC>
AS> RC> "The" pattern? There are many. Infinitely many, in fact.
AS> Name one pattern. Per your claim.
RV> I think he's got you here. like 10%3=3.33333333etcetc
Not quite in the case of pi, there, though...oh, it stretches infinitely
long as far as we can determine, but there seems little we can do to
predict the next number that comes up....without doing the actual math.
RV> You can have a pattern without a final answer. He could also say
RV> in case of math, that the answer is never ending, or
At which point you ask, how is the pattern different from total
randomness? In what sense is it a pattern?
RV> appears that way and that a pattern hasn't showen up, likely that is
RV> the pattern ie: a none repeating answer. Then too, i know shit about
RV> math.
Then that's not a pattern, per se. But it would have been entertaining.
But Robert refuses to play. His privilege.
RV> I will have to see what he say's now.
Not much. Excuse me while I watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail. They're
just at the point where the bard is going, "Brave Sir Ronald ran away..."
... Imagination is more important than knowledge... - Einstein
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ..
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:00:37
EID:4860 22264800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e0
AS> AS> RV> So your Christ was the mule . . . very interesting.
AS> AS> So who's the Second Foundation?
AS> RV> As a guess, those who expanded their minds.
AS> Does that include those who made martyrs out of the early Christians?
RV> It's got to be a good 20 years or so now. There are
RV> only few ideas i can remember of the foundation series. I can't
RV> remember that the christ idea was drag in. That science was at one end
RV> and those of the mental idea were at the other. Other then that and
RV> some misc bits, it's about all i can remember. Seems it was those of
RV> the science that went looking for the other, mental shields and shit
RV> like that. The mental shields didn't work and those of pagen power had
RV> the upper hand. pagen=mental ability.
RV> hell if i know and it's not of this world on which i live.
Yeah. Physical power is great, but it is mental power that directs it.
Wonderful series. The later books (FOUNDATION AND EARTH, etc.) were not
as
good, I thought. Although the last one with Hari Seldon was passable.
... I was the next door kid's imaginary friend.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ..
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:07:23
EID:4860 222648e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e1
AS> Interesting way to look at it. Ever read any H.Rider Haggard? He also
AS> tended towards that way...see, for instance, his "SHE AND ALLAN", where
an
AS> immortal, unchanging version of himself judged the protagonist's deeds
AS> during his life...
RV> Nope, can't say that i have.
You'd enjoy them. His SHE stories as well as his Allan Quatermain stories
are dotted with mysticism.
AS> RV> many lessons. See a path pointed too but not forced. See Al
acting
AS> RV> as a dart board for the HolySmoke Harpies. See Ron running like
hell
AS> RV> again. See question, why live at all.
AS>
RV> I was going for that.
You got it. Good one!
AS> Well ....at least you're honest about it...and thank you, Ron. I
think
AS> you have told me a little more about your worldview just then than you
AS> have in a hundred previous posts...
RV> That was a "worldview" ? Make me a god, and you will see a worldview.
I can't. I wonder what sort of world you would make, though...for that
matter, I wonder what sort of world _I_ would make.
AS> But part of me goes, "Been there, done that." And would rather not
go
AS> through potty training AGAIN, thank you...
RV> I know Al. You want God to clean the shit off.
Well, not have to go through it again. Most parents would sympathize with
me, perhaps. After going through teaching three kids that, especially
two who can't TELL you when they need to go to the bathroom, very little
can gross me out again.
RV> Don't buy the idea, i still buy this . It did answer some questions
RV> but didn't answer the question of long term pain or a baby dieing in
RV> pain. It may of answer some idea on suffering, but, Not long term
RV> suffering.
Which? Reincarnation or my ideas of the afterlife? Or both?
RV> It also got toss out.
RV> I had bought this idea for a bit, since i wantted to keep a god. This
RV> is after i toss the Christian God in the trash heap, but still like
the
RV> idea of their being a reason to be born and to still be alive. It's
RV> one of the pagen ideas, i kind of like. Better semi evidence of a soul
RV> liveing after death and getting place in another body.
It's a definite idea. Some early Christians flirted with the idea, even.
It seems futile to me, but tastes differ.
RV> Do I believe in it still, N O P E. It, like the christian idea are
RV> many, many years in my pass. I've yet to see any evidence presented
RV> to drag it back out and look at it in a serious manner again. Till
RV> that happens, thats where it will stay.
Then I stand corrected. I could tell you were VERY interested in it at ONE
point, anyway.
... I used to have a handle on life, then it broke.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absense of belief
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:26:47
EID:18be 22264b40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e2
RC> Al, all I can say at this particular junction is that without
RC> offline mailreading capability, it is a COMPLETE waste of time
RC> even trying to bother with your nonsense.
That REALLY breaks my heart, Robert.
RC> Perhaps someone else could explain to you why *belief* is
RC> not necessary for scientific inquiry -- I will freely admit
RC> that you appear to be far beyond my meager abilities to educate.
You believe so?
Now, Robert, is the idea that the universe has regular rythyms, that
despite the seeming irregularity of nature, there are laws to be found,
even if not apparent...is that not a belief? And if not, what is it?
Ahhhh, but you don't want to answer. How courageous of you.
RC> Curtis was far too kind. You are a complete and utter babbling
RC> moron. Have a nice day.
And you, sir, despite high hopes, choose to use invective instead of
intellect, and so denigrate yourself much more than you do anyone else.
Oh, have a nice day also.
... Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:35:48
EID:aeec 22264c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e3
AS> Excellent point, and one I hadn't considered. Let me think on that
AS> one.
RH> Please do, it's an important point.
It is indeed, and I confess at the moment an inarguable one. So that means
at least at the moment, there is not a seperate immaterial soul operating
the brain. (Of course, that doesn't mean that the personality cannot be
imprinted on the soul as one dies, if there is a soul.) Maybe. Perhaps.
Let me think on it some more...but excellent point.
RH> For a reference, see Crick's "The Astounding Hypothesis", although
RH> I wish he had covered it more completely.
AS> I've heard of that book, and keep meaning to read it. Last I checked
AS> it was not in the Nashville Library, but let me see if they've gotten
AS> it in yet. If not, I can order it through interlibrary loan.
RH> Absolutely, it's a "must read". I've been hoping to find it second
RH> hand somewhere.
It's evidently on order, but hasn't hit the library yet. HAVE to read it.
I remember reading an interview with Crick in OMNI about it, and it
whetted my curiosity...quite a while ago.
... If it's too good to be true, our taxes must be paying for it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:38:23
EID:7387 22264cc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e4
MG> IF souls are the embodiment of wht the person does, then sooner or
MG> later, all would be consigned to hell. That is, if there was a god,
MG> sending out souls to live out our lives for us, sooner or later, they
MG> all get trapped in some sinners physical form and then would be sent
MG> to hell. Pretty soon, god runs out of souls.
AS> Hmmm. I think you're presupposing reincarnation there, unless you
AS> think no one can lead a life that would earn Heaven...
LB>
LB> "...for all have fallen short of the glory of God." Rom. 3:23.
Yep.
LB> That no one can lead a life that would earn Heaven is Christian
LB> theology 101.
It sure is, but I was trying to understand Martin's POV, which is very far
from the standard Christian one.
... The Illuminati do not exist. Really. We're not kidding.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 06 Jan 97 09:43:59
EID:3206 22264d60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e5
RC> Good lord, you are dense.
Not quite as dense as an atheist calling on a "Good Lord," methinks.
... If I want your opinion, I'll read it in your entrails.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 18:54:18
EID:c3aa 222696c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e6
RC> You have yet to show how answering ignorance -- be it the more
RC> primitive ignorance of the distant past or the more subtle
RC> ignorance of the present -- with "God done it" has any explanatory
RC> power whatsoever.
Well, Robert, it's like this.
I CAN assume that your answers are the result of random line noise. That
there IS no Robert Curry typing the words. (And sometimes I'm tempted...)
OR I can assume that your words are the result of deliberate selection and
intelligence or choice. Either is an EXPLANATION. Correct? Or no? Does
it
matter whether I am addressing a random sequence of line noise, or an
actual intelligence? I think so.
RC> That is why I said that "god" is useless.
That's why I objected. That's like saying whether there is a Robert Curry
typing these words, or these are just random bits of line noise that
HAPPEN to result in words, makes no difference, and therefore the idea
that there is a "Robert Curry" is useless.
RC> You respond with the assertion that that remains to be seen?
RC> ROFL! It's seen every time you babble on for screen after screen
Would you rather I claim that God definitely exists? I could in turn reply
that the idea that a Robert Curry...rather than a fantastically long
series of conincidences (any analogy with the constants is NOT
coincidental, I assure you) which simulate semi-intelligent
responses...remains to be seen. I have never seen you personally, for
instance. You remain a hypothetical. But I believe in you, Robert.
RC> after screen trying desparately to find some apologetic argument
RC> for the relevance of a deity that doesn't immediately fall apart
RC> under scrutiny!
If you say so, Robert.
RC> Thanks for providing the Million-Word example of Hector's Law.
Thank YOU for providing the succinct example to Schroeder's Corallary.
... I came, I saw, got sidetracked, forgot why I was here ..
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:22:36
EID:5aa9 222652c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e7
LB> Not exactly as Al is stating there, but yes, there is a school of
LB> thought that suggests that what Jesus accomplished was to act as a
LB> conduit...to open the door. One of his appellations is "the Way"....so
LB> that, having wrenched open the door, one need not believe in him, or
LB> even be aware of the door itself. The barriers have have removed. The
LB> question (symbolically) becomes, "Is the door open or closed? Is
LB> knocking and asking for entrance needed, or is it there, travelled
LB> through without having to think about it."
LB> The idea, often brought up here is that pagans need only stand on
LB> their conscience, whereas those who have HEARD of the door are required
LB> to ask for entrance. Were that the case, and christians really
LB> believed it, they would, if they cared about the immortal souls of
LB> their fellow humans and their children, do their best to wipe all
LB> knowledge of christian teachings from the face of the planet, so as
to
LB> avoid that door being shut, waiting to be knocked upon.
Ummmm. Well, you did say not exactly as Al is stating there...
But if one can have a clean enough conscience to gain Heaven, does that
mean everybody has that clean a conscience? Do even most people do?
Where I think Christianity has a slight edge is in the concept of
forgiveness...that ANYONE, if they ask SINCERELY, and intend to follow
through with it, can gain forgiveness from God. I would rather trust to
forgiveness than try to stand on my own merits in this particular case.
Because we don't know how strict a perfect Being like God would be about
that.
... And on the 8th day God said, "Ok, Murphy, you're in charge."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:35:14
EID:d74b 22265460
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e8
MH> Although, Jesus guaranteed that they would be.
LB> Which leads to the pervasive notion, expressed or otherwise, that
LB> unanswered prayer means you didn't pray RIGHT, or ask for the right
LB> thing....or are selfish to ask for what you are asking for. Always
LB> back to the idea that it's the imperfect human's fault that the
LB> supposedly perfect god declines to respond - and for some of us, a loud
LB> NO would have been preferable, even if it were painful to hear, to the
LB> still silence that kept us wondering whether we'd been heard at all.
Or
LB> what we did to be "twitted" by the god we were told we needed to obey
LB> and love.
Well...if your children prayed to eat as much ice cream as they wanted,
would you let them? To the point that they get sick?
LB> *nod* There is no difference in response for prayers offered in good
LB> times or bad. Always just silence...the only difference is our own
Well, for instance, John Brawley thinks he has gotten answers from God.
So
did Augustine. So did Son of Sam, to be fair. Are you convinced by
them? If you had something other than silence, WOULD you be convinced by
it? Or would you wonder if you were having a hallucination?
If someone told you to do a certain something, and something would
happen to convince you, would you do it?
LB> perceptions of the event. If God is to be credited for the happy events
LB> of my life, he needs to be questioned about the unhappy ones. Or it
LB> needs to be acknowledged that each happened without his involvement.
Which events? God, I don't think, can be credited with the happiness of
your marriage to George...that is something you two have built. Is it
POSSIBLE (not saying it is, just asking) that God had something to do with
you two getting back together, after your bad experience? That's possible,
I think.
MH> I have always thought of prayer more as a meditative exercise to put
MH> us in touch with the divine, not an opportunity to present a wish
MH> list. I may begin practicing it again, even through my agnosticism,
MH> and see if I still benefit from it.
LB> I have found that I am still interested in an organized method of
LB> meditating on those actions, and am slowly and hesitantly developing
LB> new ways to do so. Including even some of my older methods, such as
LB> journaling. Sometimes, I still do include what would be called
LB> "prayer", although I am no longer so concerned with whether anyone is
LB> on the other end to hear the message. *I* hear it...and in the end,
LB> that was all I was ever certain of, anyway.
Although sometimes there's a difference between talking to oneself and
talking to others...
LB> If God overhears, and wants to respond, he knows where to find me. :)
He does indeed.
... Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:04:43
EID:01e5 22265880
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5e9
RC> Insinuation? Bull-fucking-shit.
(Yawn.)
RC> I'm stating plain out without any equivocation whatsoever that
RC> the author of CONTRA CELSUS cannot be trusted to have been
RC> intellectually honest by modern standards.
Do tell.
RC> The early book-burning Christians forged many things, so why
RC> you are all up in arms to complain in your characteristic whiney
RC> tone that I dare to "insinuate" that maybe you shouldn't just
RC> swallow the religious propaganda that was fed to you is a mystery
RC> to me, Al.
Familiarity with CONTRA CELSUS and how it tried to address some very hard
questions (like the possible paternity of Jesus by a passing soldier, or
the number of self-confessed wonder-workers and prophets in Palestine) in
a fair and unequivocal manner.
RC> Please save up enough to rent a clue, will you?
Then the fact that a fraud was perpetuated means that there is no reason
to trust any in the same tradition? Then say, the "cold fusion" claims
cause EVERY scientific paper to be suspect?
... Famous last words #11: No, it's NOT loaded.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:15:12
EID:f758 222659e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ea
AS> But how many of us, if we were abused as children, raised in high
AS> crime areas, etc. might have turned out awful? I know that many do
AS> rise above such circumstances. But there's no doubt that a higher
AS> number of criminals come from high-crime areas and abusive homes than
AS> otherwise. Maybe it's too late, and they are irrredemable. But I
AS> don't like giving up...on anyone.
LB> Odd. Yet, you defend eternal quarantine or extinction for these same
LB> people. Now THAT is giving up on them, no?
No, Lynda. That is them giving up on God. They can claim Heaven with a
word. If they are strong enough, courageous enough, to ask for
forgiveness. No sin is greater than God's grace and mercy, and it is silly
human pride to think it.
They only have to ask.
... I'm more humble than you are!!!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:16:43
EID:ebe3 22265a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5eb
AS> But people are rarely shot by Uzis. They are usually hit by
AS> the "Saturday Night Special" type of gun.
JH> Ahem... most people are shot with THEIR OWN gun, by a family member.
I stand corrected. Which is ANOTHER reason I don't keep a gun in my house.
I'm not too afraid of a member of my family, in a rage, shooting me. But
accidental shootings? You betcha.
... Never offend a bard. Fighters kill you once; bards slander you forever
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:20:16
EID:e60c 22265a80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ec
JB> Sorry if it came across like that. I can see where it would. The
JB> thought in my mind at the time was that it was stated that it was the
JB> MOTHER's gun...she was the OWNER of said weapon and therefore the one
JB> responsible for it's safety.
JB> If Al had said it was the 'father's' gun, my reaction would have been
JB> the same, only using 'father' in place of mother. I should have used
JB> 'owner' instead.
As it turned out, you were right. It was the mother's sole gun, and her
sole responsibility. The father did not live there.
... "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Christians v Guns [2]
|Date: 06 Jan 97 11:25:30
EID:5b50 22265b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ed
AS> The guns will eventually fall into disuse if they were baned
AS> altogether, save those taken or robbed from military installations.
AS> If we make it a mere matter of education, they will still be in
AS> circulation. As for the criminal element, obviously this will not
AS> affect them greatly, save to compound felonies when caught.
MB> With any care at all, a gun virtually lasts forever. And, to
MB> top it off, anybody with rudimentary skills can make a fairly
MB> workable gun in his basement with nothing more than a lathe
MB> and patience. In fact, you don't even need the lathe; the
MB> "hoods" in the 60's made zipguns in tenements, with nothing
MB> more than the will to do so.
Interesting. Are zipguns a big problem in European countries, such as
England, where personal firearms are more controlled?
... File not found, I'll load something *I* think is interesting.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:19:29
EID:d138 22269a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ee
GT>> That's because he chose to pick not on myself or on Gwenny, but on
a
GT>> child who doesn't even participate in this echo, Suzanne.
AS> Yes. That does indeed make a difference. Even in flaming, there are
AS> limits, insofar as common decency is concerned. And insulting one's
kids
AS> crosses it for me...when the kids are in no way involved.
GT> My point precisely. Fun's fun, but that was uncalled-for.
Yes. You have my sympathies. Being a teenager is a painfully sensitive
age. And mocking someone for their weight can be very cruel. Fun's fun,
and flaming is certainly allowed, but evidently she saw these words.
I wonder how many of us can remember cruel words said about them in high
school and remember how much it stung? Practically all of us, I'm sure,
for one reason or another.
But to have it from a STRANGER...who's never even SEEN you...
Of course, anyone here can say whatever they want. And the rest of us
can call them an insensitive abrasive idiot for doing so.
... No sense in being pessimistic--- it won't work anyway.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:11:16
EID:f484 22266160
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5ef
AS> Yes. That does indeed make a difference. Even in flaming, there are
AS> limits, insofar as common decency is concerned. And insulting one's
kids
AS> crosses it for me...when the kids are in no way involved.
GtP> It crosses it for me, too. The only family member I have ever said
GtP> mean things about was Mark "stumpy" Staal. . .if he was, indeed, a
GtP> separate individual. But it seems to have stopped, and Suzanne,
GtP> instead of being really hurt, has just developed a fine little hatred
GtP> for David.
But it still hurts a little. Teenagers are self-conscious enough without
having total outsiders insult them. At least Mark DID post here. Suzanne
hasn't.
... No good dead goes unpunished.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Faith & Works
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:18:24
EID:bb9d 22266240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f0
DR> My theory is that Jesse may have been frightened off by
DR> Michael Hardy's aleged "loss of faith." If I can happen
DR> to Hardy (alegedly) if can happen to Jones. How very
DR> terrifying it must be to face the fact that one has
DR> SQUANDERED decades of ones' life on the lie of
DR> Christianity! Perhaps he fleed before his doubt could
DR> get that far into the truth.
And the fact that I am still here, says...?
As for Jesse's leaving, I think part of it was the exact truth. He was
tired of saying things only to have them mocked, and figured enough was
enough.
I wish he had said something kinder to Mike, though. I find that hard to
forgive.
... MEGAHERTZ: When something is really painful.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: feed
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:27:22
EID:ed5a 22266360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f1
JB> Here, have some fudge. A brownie. Toll-house cookies. CHOCOLATE PIE.
DC> store for the necessary ingredients! Hopefully, by the end
AS> Uh...trust me, Dan. The recipe for THIS chocolate pie might be a
AS> little different from what your father made...
DC> I know. I'm the official baker.
Is that why you handle all the ingredients VERY carefully...?
... **** VirusScan - "Windows found: Remove it? (Y/y)"?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:34:50
EID:7cf3 22266440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f2
RC> So you were whining on "general principles."
So, why are YOU whining, pray tell?
RC> The general principle being that your public conversations are
RC> suposed to be treated like personal, private, and confidential
RC> communications just because you spew the shit via email instead
RC> of over the echo?
EXACTLY!!!! GIVE THE MAN A CIGAR!!!!!
RC> Tough shit. That's not a priviledge -- er, "principle" -- of
RC> yours that I recognize. Go whine about it elsewhere, if it's
RC> sympathy that you desire for your "hurt little puppydog" antics.
I desire nothing from YOU, Robert. You have acted true to form throughout.
Unfortunately.
... Did you reformat your brain this morning by accident?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:03:56
EID:393f 22269860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f3
RC> So according to your belief, your god doesn't PERSONALY do the
RC> dirty work of raping and torturing children.
Or condone it or approve it.
Yeppers.
RC> How holy and godly it must be to wash one's hands of it while
RC> sitting back, watching it all happen without doing anything effective
RC> to help.
Golgotha. Jesus with the nails driven through the bone. A Man in agony for
all men, and women.
But hey..."What have you done for us LATELY?"
We stab each other, rape each other, kill each other, and blame God.
How about blaming humanity?
... Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:44:12
EID:1c76 22266580
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f4
RC> "Prove they're NOT representative samples!" you whine.
RC> Tsk. You claim that they are, then show your work, Idiot.
Where did I claim they were? Specifically.
Do I say they aren't? No.
I was asking why aren't they?
But insult and invective has gotten in the way of intellect and
imagination, in your case. Sad.
... Anything is possible, unless it's not.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 06 Jan 97 12:48:15
EID:ec57 22266600
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5f5
AS> Well, my wife is fairly anti-abortion, for instance, but she has little
AS> respect for the people in Operation Rescue, who are religiously motivated.
AS> She'll say, "The first century Christians didn't picket the places
where
AS> the midwives did abortions. They changed their OWN lives...and changed
by
AS> quiet example." She has a point. The histrionics of the present time
AS> is a symptom of age, not the vigour of youth (When Christianity was
AS> young, that is....)
GT> My point precisely. Those who attempt to convince or to teach BY
GT> THE EXAMPLE OF THEIR OWN LIVES garner fare more respect than the
GT> shouters.
Yes. And always have. That's one reason I admire the first or second
century Christians.
... You're twisted and sick; I like that in a person!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Doug Lee
|To: All
|Sub: Plastic Surgery
|Date: 06 Jan 97 10:33:07
EID:9e96 22265420
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d15638
Well, I suppose it was just a matter of time.
I just saw a comercial on TV where they were advertising nose jobs and
breast enhancments for, get this, " No money down. Pay no interest for.."
I missed for how long.
The times really are a changin'.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Science or evolution?
|Date: 04 Jan 97 11:14:01
EID:ae5d 222459c0
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d12890
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32c63626
Hi Rod...
On 29 Dec 96 17:13:10, Rod Swift penned the following to Richard Smith
re: Science or evolution?
Actually, this is about beer (I've just finished racking
20 litres and I can still taste it from the syphon... yum!).
RS> LOL. I like Foster's quite a bit, but I understand that Down Under
they
RS> consider it to be the equivalent of Buttwiper here . . .
RS> Fosters is really quite bad, Richard. :) If you're all
That's only because they leave all the nasty bits in from the
Melbourne and Victoria water... B-})
My Beer Bible reviews Canadian Foster's (brewed in Toronto)
like this:
"Foster's Lager: Expectedly fresh and crisp on contact; full
palate and smoothness around the sides of the mouth; generally
even-tempered and predictable throughout; head is very white
with clearly distinguishable bubbles; nicely patterned Brussels
lace adds to the soft feel; is quite pleasing, flavorful lager
with backbone; Australian version is essentially identical,
except for definitely lighter carbonation. (rated 3.4 out of
5)" (from The Beer Lover's Rating Guide - Bob Klein)
RS> well-behaved boys, I may send each of you a bottle of Redback
RS> when I get back to the US next.
Continuing from the same guide:
"Red Back Malted Wheat Beer (Fremantle, Western Australia):
Baked-bread aroma on first sniff - enough yeast to make it
almost taste warm and just out of the oven - but the enjoyment
stops there; tangy citrus accent; highly malty so there's
little hop bitterness to deal with the yeast; flavour and
ambience are too unfocused; soft texture, almost mushy. (rated
2.2)"
Sounds like my last batch of heavy winter beer... B-})
My favourite American beer is Rogue Red Ale from Newport,
Oregon but we can't get it here. It rates a 4.4 on the Klein
scale making it the second-best beer by style in the world on
that scale! Locally brewed Big Rock Royal Coachman Dry Ale
rates a 3.9 and is listed in 20th place globally, which isn't
too shabby either...
Rev (Don't eat that vegemite!) John
... Apathy error, press any key. Or don't. See if I give a shit.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific Facts (c)
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:14
EID:c071 22256b00
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d12893
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 866d213a
Hi Laurie...
I could simply say you're just blowing it out your ass again,
but those hanging on your every word might learn something from
this.
On 27 Dec 96 09:02:28, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Scientific Facts (c)
RM> Was I trying to establish that some specific organism
RM> in the Cambrian was descended from some specific organism in
RM> the Precambrian? No I was not.
It matters little if he was, since that information has been
specifically established. See S.J. Gould's "Wonderful Life", page
208. There is enough scientific information in that one book to
make any statement you may make on the subject seem like a tiny
tot repeating "is not! is not!" over and over ad nauseum.
LA> I accept your admission that you are totally unable to
LA> identify any Cambrian fossil as a descentant of any
LA> Precambrian fossil! In other words you are just ASSUMING
No Laurie, he's assuming you remember what has been posted to
you earlier when we all know that your memory is as poor as
your reading comprehension.
The precambrian and soft-bodied Naraoia is an ancestor of the
trilobite. That is at least one. I could offer more but the
book mentioned above covers it in more detail than you could
ever handle.
LA> they some "MUST HAVE". Again you assume evolution and then
Every science confirms evolution, Laurie. Surely you realize
that despite your grasshopper mind.
LA> try to make the evidence 'FIT' your assumption. That is NOT
LA> the way of honest science!
No, it's the way of CREATION science as has been endlessly
drilled into everyone by now thanks to you and other
creationists.
RM> There WAS life on this planet for 3,000,000,000 years or
RM> so before the start of the Cambrian.
LA> More dogmatic and unsupported ASSUMPTIONS - typical for
Since you failed once again to document the reasons for your
rephrasing of "IS NOT!" we can only assume you cannot support
your own assumptions.
LA> most of evolutionary "science"! You do NOT know that the
LA> world is all that old anyway and and you don't know of ANY
We are 99.999% sure it is, Laurie... your quotes from the
technical journal notwithstanding. The reasons WHY we have that
much confidence can be found in any public library, where all
you need to learn anything is the reading comprehension level
of at least a six year-old.
LA> ancestor/descent relationship between your alleged
LA> Pre-cambrian and the alleged Cambrian fossils!
You have not read the available literature, or if you have your
legendary reading comprehension skills have hindered your
understanding of it.
LA> That is simply OUTSIDE of science and you must surely
LA> know it.
YOU are the one outside of science, Laurie. "Wonderful Life"
contains enough information to specifically show that it is
very definitely science. A two hour car trip and a four hour
hike from here is the raw data from the Burgess Shale. A 20
minute drive away is the university library where every
conceivable scientific test has been performed on the "data"
and the results are publicly available.
Your claim that it is "outside of science" is laughable, as
usual. Anyone reading your words should be rolling in the isles
if they haven't hit the Next key by now.
LA> "It is easy enough to make up stories of how one
It's easy enough to make them up, but a lot harder to back them
up. That's why people study these things rather than use
outdated quotes like this one alleged to be of Patterson's.
LA> stories are NOT PART OF SCIENCE, for there is no way
LA> of putting them to the test."
LA> (Personal letter (written 10 April 1979) from Dr Colin
There wasn't in 1979, but there is now. Those damned alleles
keep shooting you down, Laurie. Don't you remember the accepted
definition of biological evolution? The way to test it is to
utilize it, which is what science does every day.
All anti-evolutionists like yourself do is make yourselves look
silly in public all the time. You're the KING of that.
Tell us once again (in your own words this time) why allele
frequency and DNA analysis does not put evolution to the test.
John
... 13th Rule of Creationism: Never honestly answer direct questions.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Scientific Facts (c)
|Date: 05 Jan 97 14:00:49
EID:c071 22257000
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32d12894
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 866d21a4
Hi Laurie...
On 27 Dec 96 09:03:18, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
re: Scientific Facts (c)
LA> I rely on Gould quite often, as far as that goes. Apart
You rely on misquoting Gould quite often, Laurie. Wonderful
Life is recent and is an in-depth study of the subject. However
you rely on:
LA> History, vol.LXXXVIII(7), August-September, 1979, p.18.)
16 years ago, Laurie. Why are you so fearful of modern science?
Even your use of the jacket flap quote from Eldredge's latest
is merely poor scholarship once again. What does the BOOK say?
LA> Now all we have to do is show that Cretaceous and the
LA> Tertiary are NOT separate time zones at all but simply
LA> ecological zones!
OK Laurie... how are you going to do that? Use as many screens
as you like using modern scientific sources.
LA> In other words the evidence we DO have and what we CAN
LA> see all supports SUDDEN APPEARANCE, just as Gould says and
LA> just as Creationists have consistently claimed.
The creationists have failed to show how any other explanation other
than an extremely long period of time can account for the
evidence we do have, Laurie. Do you expect a few tracts by some
wackos means anything when the real knowledge is freely
available?
RM> Alternately, it
RM> is possible that the Cambrian fauna evolved from single
RM> celled organisms at the beginning of the Cambrian, replacing
RM> any multicellular Ediacaran organisms that were still
RM> existant at the time. The fossil evidence from that period
RM> is so sparse that it is not conclusive either way.
LA> Then I "rest my case". When you have admitted all that
LA> they your "mountains of evidence" for evolution becomes
LA> vitrually non-existent, doesn't it?
Do you enjoy having abuse heaped upon you as they did the
village idiots in your favourite time period (when the Church
reigned supreme)?
If Rick's alternative is true then the mountains of evidence
become the continents of evidence upon which planets and
galaxies of evidence are made. What it would mean is what we've
been saying all along, Laurie... evolution happens all the
time, because of what happens to carbon atoms under
certain pressures. It also confirms what bio-chemistry and
physics tell us - that carbon atoms behave in specific ways and
under conditions which are reasonably common, combine to become
molecules of acids and those acids become organisms and those
organisms become more complex.
There is direct evidence of all those things available in the
public library, the internet and in your own environment. Not
ONE SINGLE QUOTE from your bag of tricks will change that.
But every once in a while when I'm in the mood I'll still send
a barrage of expletives in your direction just for the hell of
it. It's not like you don't KNOW that all that information is
there.
John
... If we believe absurdities, then we shall commit atrocities.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
* Origin: The Cosmic Keyboard [Calgary, AB 403-229-4858] (1:134/67)
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|From: Satan
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 06 Jan 97 06:20:59
EID:559f 22263280
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 1a2aa251
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 732adcb4
Wasn't it 04 Jan 97 when "J.J. Hitt" wrote to "Satan"?
So, J.J.... you said...
> From the quill of Satan...
> Origin: Satan challenges God to show His face! (1:134/67.666)
JH> My records show that node number has been used by the names
JH> Conan Cooper and Michael Gitcheegoo.
JH> Which one of those funny names is your real one?
You obviously are a poor record keeper then.
Conan Cooper uses the address 1:134/67.667. He has never used
1:134/67.666.
Michael Gothreau uses 1:134/67.6, but previously did use
1:134/67.666.
From the quill of Satan...
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
--- PPoint 2.02
* Origin: Satan challenges God to show His face! (1:134/67.666)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Goatverses
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:29:34
EID:b8b1 22274ba0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32d217a6
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
06 Jan 97 09:17, quoting Leonard Bernier to All:
LB> PRAISE GOD !
PRAISE GOAT !
Goatesians 6:9 And Yahweh did annoy the hell out of StarGoat, and despite
StarGoat commanding Yahweh to shut the hell up, Yahweh persisted in being
an
annoying little twat. So StarGoat ate him. He later did regret His decision,
for Yahweh gave Him the worst case of gas that He ever had.
Gnaw 6:9 And the Star Goat saw the corruption that the works Yahweh inspired
had caused. And he thought, "Silly humans. The joke's on them. For I have
eaten this evil bastard known as Yahweh, and they worship a cloud of
methane".
.
Cud 6:9 And the Star Goat noticed the Fundees babbling about the gas cloud
they call Yahweh. And He thought that they were kidding. But He later found
out that they weren't. And He lost His lunch.
Baah 6:9 The Star Goat is the one true creator of all. Yahweh was an annoying
little twat who wanted the credit. But nobody with a Goat given brain ever
believed Yahweh's mastubatory delusions of godhood. Those who did were
labelled morons, and doomed to never grasp anything outside the supposed
works of this guy.
.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 07 Jan 97 01:23:28
EID:bf89 22270ae0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d1a632
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 7f4e1c70
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Jan 97 02:38, Marilyn Burge wrote to Glen Todd:
MB> Notice his sig.line now. He sent me a private message when I
MB> called him on what he was doing in here, and I answered the
MB> private message IN PRIVATE. Now he's using one of the paragraphs
MB> from that PRIVATE message as his sig.line.
What's wrong, Marilyn? Don't want people knowing how much you sound like
Jesse Jones when your back gets up?
MB> Isn't there something in POLICY 4 about being excessively
MB> annoying?
File the complaint, Marilyn.
Or are you going to be another Brawley?
MB> I've just now twitted him.
But how can you "combat the evil" that way, Jes.. er, Marilyn?
MB> He is a waste of oxygen and foodstuffs.
Do you dryclean your superhero outfit, or just throw it in the wash with
your regular clothes?
~~~ An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army
of lions led by a sheep. - Arab Proverb
~~~ The church is near, but the way is icy, The tavern
is far, but I will walk carefully.
- Ukranian Proverb
~~~ No opera plot can be sensible, for in sensible
situations people do not sing.
- W. H. Auden
~~~ In other words, you're full of shit, you *know*
you're full of shit, you know that *we* know you're
full of shit, and you simply don't have the backbone
to come out of the full-of-shit closet.
- David Worrell
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:e6de 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8d2d663f
MB> JB> What a year this has been for you all. I hope '97, if not better,
is
MB> JB> at least disaster neutral for you.
MB>Thank you. They did a chest x-ray, and the cancer definitely
MB>came from her lungs. They are doing a CAT scam today, to see
MB>just how extensive the lung cancer is, then we'll go from there.
MB>She is in good spirits and looks more rested than I've seen her
MB>in years.
Marilyn, I am so sorry to hear this news.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * It that the Bunny or Jesus that just keeps going???
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:baad 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 64914e70
RH> RH>Indeed. It's a religiously motivated meddling, but it can have
RH> RH>devastating effects on your lives if it gets invoked.
RH> KW> How is that our fault? The state that I'm living in has assorted
RH> KW> common law marriage laws. We find ways to live within the system,
RH> KW> Roger, and still be true to ourselves.
RH>If you are breaking the law, you are not "living within the system".
RH>Fault? Well, you are doing whatever you are doing, knowing that it
RH>is illegal. That makes it your fault.
How is it breaking the law to find a legally recognized way to mate? If
my state recognizes common law marriage, it is a legal way of handling
the problem. If I married Bear in a recognized civil rite, does a
unrecognized religious rite invalidate that valid and legal binding? How
is finding a way around their rules a fault?
RH> RH> KW> in, and do the public 'wedding' for the sake of peace in the
RH> RH> KW> family--and still do the handfasting for themselves.
RH> RH>This would seem the safest course.
It's not an uncommon one.
RH> KW> Especially if the pagan isn't willing to come out of the broom closet
RH> KW> to their extended family.
RH>?? Being pagan is like being gay?
In some ways, it can be. It's something very central to ourselves that
isn't 'socially acceptable', that if known can result in the loss of job
and home. There are as many mis perceptions about it.
RH> RH>A forced oath is no oath anyway. But we are all bound by the law.
We
RH> RH>have some small experience with it in my family and it's ever
RH> RH>so much like a mindless meat grinder. If you get into the intake,
RH> RH>you will inexorably come out the other end.....hamburger.
RH> KW> That's the truth.
RH>Indeed. Be careful.
Again, why do you assume that as a pagan and a witch, that I'm doing
something illegal, or doing anything that would place me in more danger
of that meat grinder than any xtain?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * It's a Dogma eat Dogma world
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: holiday celebrations
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:c12b 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2941aa81
GTP>Heilsa, Steve!
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Steve say to Judith:
GTP>JJ>> I think it's a great idea, Judith! You heathens go worship
GTP>JJ>> mammon, and I will continue to worship the God of Abraham.
GTP>SQ> Oh shit, now we're going to have to get a likeness for Mammon, and
give it
GTP>SQ> away as a door prize at the Holysmoke convention. Love it!
GTP>What exactly does mammon look like. . .maybe it would be easier to get
a
GTP>likeness of mammaries and give them away.
They do have some really nice breast forms out there. Now, should the
lucky recipient be required to wear the prize?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Welcome to the state of c
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:fae4 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4ae60b89
GTP>MH>> There's a camp? And me without my insect repellent ...
GTP>gtp>> Of course there are camps. You'd like the pagan camp. The
GTP>gtp>> guys drum while the ladies dance around the fire in bits of
GTP>gtp>> gauze.
GTP>FR> Don't forget to tell him about the bright baubles the women tie
onto their
GTP>FR> flimsy gauze... it's better with the bright baubles.
GTP>AMBER. . .acres and acres of amber.
Or moonstones....it's amazing just how many baubles a pagan woman can
pile on without looking overdressed, isn't it? Maybe because it's
because the gauze is only there to support the pretties.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Jesse Helms' ulitmate nightmare: gay tobacco farmers
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:8d06 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ff68e2a8
DM>Gwenny The Pooh said "#HOLYSMOKE" to Al Schroeder, adding:
DM> GTP> Oh, no! I just got the newest mIRC, too, and I wanted to wander
in.
DM> GTP> But I can't think of a cute cat name that won't get me into trouble.
DM> Pussy Galore was a great cat name of the James Bond books . . .
Hmmmm--I don't think that anyone's claimed any variation of Pussy yet.
Pussypooh? Gwenpuss?
Not everyone goes for the cat motif anyway--we have a werewolf as well.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Jesus loves you. But then again, so does Barney.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Alignment list
|Date: 05 Jan 97 13:24:00
EID:acd9 22256b00
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8dc8c24e
GTP>GTP>KW>> Mike Hardy Mobile, Alabama former evangelical
2 years
GTP>GTP>KW>> Christian turned
GTP>GTP>KW>> Open-minded agnostic.
GTP>GTP>> Ack, I have been missing out on good stuff. Have we had a atheist
or
GTP>GTP>> agnostic "find Jesus" yet??
GTP>KW> Not that I'm aware of, unless you want to count Joanna.
GTP>I don't think yoyos count.
If that's the best that they can do, is it fair to discount their only
'conversion' on this echo?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Jesus save me from the Christians!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: feed
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:28:00
EID:7a29 22269b80
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6724ac60
DW>21 Dec 96 07:08, Judith Bandsma wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW>> Don't be so hard on yourself. You're only a woman, after all. :P
DW> JB> Here, have some fudge. A brownie. Toll-house cookies. CHOCOLATE
PIE.
DW>I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that the Pie
was all
DW>they had to worry about. Was she lying, or am I somehow special? :)
She's softening you up--by the time she's finished with you, you will be
only another Harpy blasted shell, wandering in search of enough fine
European chocolates to appease her wrath.
Of course the pie is the only thing that need worry you. All the rest
is bait.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Jesus Saves..Passes to Moses..Moses shoots..HE SCORES!!!!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: Advice to 15 Y.O.
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:24:26
EID:c805 22273300
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1ec6b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d0b025
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Joe Shedlock!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Joe Shedlock
whisper furtively to Sue Armstrong something about Advice to 15 Y.O.:
JS> Hmmn, I thought it had to do with teetotalling religions "prohibiting"
JS> alcohol consumption, therefore making it alluringly "forbidden." Even
JS> some of the more intelligent, college-going participants on the local
JS> boards here announced their intention to get drunk on New Year's Eve.
Sort of like the current church's attitude towards sex. Don't they ever
learn? (I guess not.)
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... I'll see you in HELL!" "Not if I see you first.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: truth
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:27:24
EID:34bc 22273360
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1ecd5
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cdf3a2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, David Worrell!
Saturday January 04 1997 06:06, David Worrell wrote to Glen Todd:
DW> You mean like that goofy shit about raven banners?
When you finally get a clue as to why that's there, _then_ let me know.
Until then, go spew your juvenile inanities at somebody else.
DW> ~~~ When I see something I know to be deliberately
DW> hurtful with no apparent good deriving from it,
DW> I say something, just as I have done in this case.
Sounds just like all of the various reactions to you. Glad you finally
noticed.
DW> All that is needed for evil to prevail is for
DW> good men to say nothing.
Only reason I stay here (except for the entertainment value of watching
idiots prove it in public.)
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... The secret of the universe is @*&^^^ NO CARRIER
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: A horn we raise in welcome to the God of ecstasy (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:23:01
EID:6bcd 222732e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ec0d
REPLY: 1:128/203 586fb80e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Tiger!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Tiger say to Gwenny:
TE> Your right mom, and really think that no one at all has the right to
judge
TE> other people that they have not met personally. Not to mention that
it was
TE> none of our business anyway.
Nice to see you here, luv. We will end up being the best represented family
here once Suzanne gets her point.
Remind me to show you how to quote online.
hugs and snuggles,
Gwenny
... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: more physics comedy
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:24:40
EID:f0d4 22273300
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ec44
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d13775
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
AS>>>>> I try to keep current...
AS>>>>>> if you send an electric shock through me, will that make me a
AS>>>>>> superconductor?
ML>>>>>> Practice makes perfect.
AS>>>>> That's a shocking answer...
GT>>>>> Revolting. But that's about watt I would expect. The light's
on,
GT>>>>> but there's nobody ohm.
AS>>>> Watt did you say? It's good we have an outlet for this sort of
AS>>>> thing, isn't it?
GT>>> Just lightning things up.
GtP>> Giving him static again, dear?
GT> I thought that he might get a charge out of it.
As long as you keep it positive.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "I was breeding this mold. His name was Albert." -- Lister
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: xtian snobbishery
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:26:00
EID:34d0 22273340
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ec9e
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1381f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:
GT>>> Indeed. And where would the Vikings be without large quantities
of
GT>>> mead? 'Course, we tend to brew our own rather than order out for it.
GtP>> Where would Vikings be without large quantities of mead?? SOBER.
.
GtP>> .scary thought, huh?
GT> Probably the only thing that kept them from conquering the _entire_
world.
GT> We'll do better next time.
Shhhhh, Batf might be watching.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Our reality is the dreaming of an autistic child. - Erin Muldoon
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:27:03
EID:6746 22273360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ed6a
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cc82cc
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
GT>>>> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I think)
CJ>>> I have to say I'm skeptical that you read that in _Discover_. What
GP>> It's possible it was Omni.
That's why you see it in waiting rooms. I kinda remember reading it while
Wild was in the ER for congestive heart failure. I've checked my Discovers
and NGeos and the article wasn't there. That's the last place I read an
Omni.
DW> Ah, yes. The _Cosmopolitan_ of science magazines. That explains a lot.
GP>> One of the little blurbs tucked in in
GP>> unusual places.
DW> You mean that section in the middle with the lower quality paper?
Got me, I was really too busy being worried whether my husband was going
to live, but it wasn't the only article I'd read about plants that week,
so it stuck in my mind.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Polytheism: the belief that God is a parrot.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:30:19
EID:4c5b 222733c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1eee6
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ccbc9f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
GP>> You are probably correct. So I'll only bait him occassionally and
GP>> wait to see him making himself look silly answering my posts to other
GP>> people.
DW> This from someone who babbles about sentient cabbages?
Silly person. I didn't say sentient cabbages. I said that I read about
cabbages responding to outside stimuli. This is a well established fact,
that plants to respond. Maybe they've stop teaching about the effects of
music on plants in school. But even in the sixties we experimented by growing
plants in different classrooms and playing different music for them. Classical
music produced the best results in that experiment. Additionally, several
years ago I read in NG that some trees warn others of their kind about parasite
infestation using a chemical message, so that the others can change themselves
to become unpalatable to the pest. No claim of sentience.
Going fundy on us, David. Argue with things that weren't said.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A man who keeps stealing mopeds is an obvious cycle-path.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:36:31
EID:f41b 22273480
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ef29
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ccbdd4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
GP>> IF I ever have the time to get this STUPID IRC figured out.
DW> Maybe one of the local cabbages could help you?
Turns out it wasn't my fault, a setting was wrong. So I don't need the
help of that cabbage, as much improvement as it might be over any help you
might offer.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Matrimony isn't a word, it's a sentence.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:37:28
EID:023c 222734a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ef39
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdb9c8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
FR>>> sentiments you just did. She could fry onions for my omlett any day.
DC>> So, just where is Starwyn these days?
GtP>> Rumor has it that she and the Gates of Delirim are in Denver.
DC> OK, just what, is, who, are "the Gates of Delirim"?
Starwyn's BBS.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... We are the Borgs who say NIH! Prepare to assimilate...A SHRUBBERY!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:37:48
EID:9926 222734a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ef61
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdbd5e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
MG>> Call the Satanic Hotline at 1-800-555-1212
GtP>> The phone company is connected with satan. I KNEW IT!
DC> Not quite.... I take it you haven't seen _The President's Analyst_
DC> I'm Sure Prewitt bases his life work around that movie!
No, I haven't. I'm not a big movie watcher, outside of Monte Python and
SF.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If God lived on earth, people would break his windows.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:38:31
EID:776f 222734c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ef84
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdc4d2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
DC>> BTW, I think I have the recipe for Cat Poop Cookies. Makes
DC>> great Holloween treats...
GtP>> Well, with four cats I have plenty of cat poop. Send it on.
DC> Figures... It's either in a different format that I haven't
DC> imported yet, or I didn't save.
Know how that is.
DC> Anyway, I've requested a copy of it for you. Hopefully in a
DC> couple of days.
Okay.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "Rest well, and dream of *large* women." - Dread Pirate Roberts
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: EXECUTE HER ?
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:39:07
EID:218e 222734e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1efaf
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdc822
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
ML>>> to playing with yourself, boy.
Gt>>> Are the English allowed to do that?
DC>> Only after tea and strumpets.
GtP>> The strumpets must not be too good over there, if the men still have
GtP>> energy to play with themselves later.
DC> You've never watched _Fawltey Towers_ and understood why the English
DC> keep a stiff upper lip, have you.
I have watched Fawlty Towers, but I don't remember that.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Torpedos Offline: (A)bort (P)hasers (B)eg For Mercy
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:39:51
EID:a9c7 222734e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1f037
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A672A8A
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Judith!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Judith say to Gwenny:
GTP>> Personally, I think we would be much better off is women made
GTP>> contracts with each other to help raise each other's kids and men's
GTP>> only role was
JB> I read a story that had as a premise that to get permission to have
a
JB> child, you needed sponsorship by 10 EMPLOYED adults. These adults all
had
JB> to agree to being responsible for the child's welfare and it's actions.
JB> What a wonderful idea.
That sounds terrific. The nuclear, two parent family is a failure. Especially
now that both parents MUST work to provide even a modest income for the
family. I see that, and not the women's movement, as the bigger cause of
the increases of drug abuse, pregnancy, and delinquency. Most of the kids
I know have entirely too much time on their hands and little supervision.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Always remember the past, but make waves when it matters.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:41:56
EID:d1a7 22273520
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21643
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 8c938a28
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to Gwenny:
Gt>> This is sad. Is this a symptom of a wide spread paranoia
Gt>> among the members. Why would anyone lie to get in?
MB> Snobbery. Saying you're a Mensa member is just another way of
MB> saying "look how SMART I am!"
Oh, I've never been into snobbery. But that's probably of symptom of being
almost average. I'm much rather say, "Look how cuddly I am."
Gt>> Ya know, I have to admit bemusement at the why the whole IQ
Gt>> test thing works. Supposedly it is based on ability, not
Gt>> knowledge. So I have tested at 136 everytime I've taken one.
Gt>> If I now, finally, learned how to do algebra, would my score
Gt>> stay the same?
MB> It ain't rocket science, that's for sure. I supposedly measure
MB> your ability to reason, and learning algebra would not help your
MB> score any at all. BTW, I don't "do" algebra, either, and I passed
MB> the test. I doubt if you've scored exactly 136 each and every time
MB> you've taken the test; if you did, it's a fluke. Even taking the
MB> same test at different times will yield a different score,
MB> depending on your overall health, your mood, and the test itself.
MB> Different tests score differently. For example, in order to "make
MB> the cut," you must score somewhere around 136 on the
MB> Wechsler-Bellevue, but about 148 on the Cattell. (I don't have the
MB> brochure any more, so I can only give you approximations from
MB> memory.)
So learning algebra and being able to figure out more of the math questions
wouldn't have given me a better score?? How weird. Well, I've always been
more performance oriented. So you have a 150 IQ, what are you doing with
it. (Sorry, comes from growing up with people with higher IQ. . .my
"smarter" sister is a fundy. )
MB>> You're right; they are a bore, for the most part.
Gt>>> Bottom line is, I will never qualify for any of them. No use
Gt>>> pining about it. My only fear is getting caught in some
Gt>>> disaster or catastrophe with a bunch of them. The thought of
Gt>>> being the only person with real world skills who knows how
Gt>>> to use a can opener TERRIFIES me.
MB>> Fear not. They'll all be so busy arguing about some esoteric
MB>> minutiae, they won't even know you're around, which will
MB>> enable you to pretend they're not around, either.
Gt>> Ahhh, I see you know some personally, too.
MB> Of course! I was a member for years and years, and just dropped
MB> out in the last 4-5 years because I was no longer active, and felt
MB> it was an awful lot of money to spend on a monthly newsletter.
But, but. . .you seem so NORMAL Marilyn. :)
Gt>> Being just on the line (too bright to one of the "normal"
Gt>> folks, too stupid to be one of the intelligensia), I just
Gt>> hung with the intellgensia--kinda like a mascot I think.
Gt>> Some of the things they consider of earth-shattering
Gt>> importance wouldn't even make it into my top one hundred
Gt>> worries.
MB> Well, when you say "they," you're assuming they are an amorphous
MB> mass, which they're not. Isaac Asimov was a member, as is Jean
MB> Auel. We are as varied as any group of 55,000 people, I would
MB> think.
Busted in the act of buying into a stereotype. Take me out and
shoot me at dawn. Sorry, you're right. I guess I never examined
my views that carefully.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Why should I add to my troubles by facing reality?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 07 Jan 97 06:52:41
EID:152b 22273680
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21670
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32cd409e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Roger:
AS>> Yes, it does say, "None come to the Father except by Me"(Jesus) but
AS>> does that mean we must believe in Him first, of just that He is the
AS>> final arbitrator of who has access to Him? It can be read either way.
RH>> Do you know of anyone offhand, other than yourself, who reads
RH>> it that way? Especially in the CofC.
LB> Not exactly as Al is stating there, but yes, there is a school of thought
LB> that suggests that what Jesus accomplished was to act as a conduit...to
LB> open the door. One of his appellations is "the Way"....so that, having
LB> wrenched open the door, one need not believe in him, or even be aware
of
LB> the door itself. The barriers have have removed. The question
LB> (symbolically) becomes, "Is the door open or closed? Is knocking and
asking
LB> for entrance needed, or is it there, travelled through without having
to
LB> think about it."
One of the dangers of studying Jewish Mysticism is that you start seeing
all kinds of secret meanings in the gospels and they start to look like
metaphors of arcane secrets. I wonder if Jeshua and his disciples were
qabalists?
LB> The idea, often brought up here is that pagans need only stand on
LB> their conscience, whereas those who have HEARD of the door are
LB> required to ask for entrance.
That is supported by the doctrine preached by Paul. Can't find it at the
moment, I need a better concordance. But it said that the heathens would
be judged by their hearts and by how they lived the law written therein.
LB> Were that the case, and christians really believed it, they would, if
LB> they cared about the immortal souls of their fellow humans and their
LB> children, do their best to wipe all knowledge of christian teachings
LB> from the face of the planet, so as to avoid that door being shut,
LB> waiting to be knocked upon.
And, you know, some of them even teach that is would have been better if
the "backslider" had never heard of Jeshua, so that he would not be judged
for that knowledge. But they don't carry it to the logical conclusion.
LB> Sometimes I really think that the reason why some of the most hostile
LB> types are those most prone to evangelization is that they want to make
sure
LB> that everyone has 'heard the word' so that they won't be able to just
pass
LB> through freely.
I believe Sarte touches on that in his _Anti-Semite and Jew_. . .
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Tag line thievery ... On the next Geraldo!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:27:49
EID:9e51 22273b60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fb4f
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32cd409f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Michael:
LB> And yes, I am a punk. :)
Did that bald old fart ever let us bears get you??
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Fundamentalist: One who's mental and wants your funds.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:32:36
EID:acf4 22273c00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fc3a
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 32cd40ae
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Lynda!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Lynda say to Michael:
RS>> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan. :) :)
RS>> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
RS>> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....
LB>> But...I thought atheists didn't DO any gouda things!
MH>> Oh cheeses, another pun thread starting up ...
LB> I know...I cheddar to think of it, myself...
Gods, these pun threads are muensterous.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Beam me up, there's no intelligent life here!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J J Hitt
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:34:09
EID:3659 22273c40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fcdf
REPLY: 1:106/113 732eebfb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Brian say to Katherine:
KW>> J.J. Hitt
BS> He "married" a former best friend of mine. JJ's got class, but I'd bet
BS> no one here who hasn't met him could pick em out of a group of 3, or
5
BS> or 10 people. JJ's got a drive mankind doesn't see too often. I hold
BS> alot of respect and admiration for this guy. A friendship is not in
BS> the horizon, but I like what he is about, and his compassion for learning.
oooooOOOOOOoooooo, you're busted, dude. Somebody who knows you.
Guess I was correct.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if you own more TVs than books.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:35:49
EID:3575 22273c60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fd02
REPLY: 1:106/113 732eebfb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brian!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Brian say to Katherine:
KW>> J.J. Hitt
BS> He "married" a former best friend of mine. JJ's got class, but I'd bet
BS> no one here who hasn't met him could pick em out of a group of 3, or
5
BS> or 10 people. JJ's got a drive mankind doesn't see too often. I hold
BS> alot of respect and admiration for this guy. A friendship is not in
BS> the horizon, but I like what he is about, and his compassion for learning.
For years JJ has been trying to hide his gender. You blew
his cover.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Man cannot make a flea, yet he makes gods by the dozens.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:38:09
EID:077c 22273cc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21697
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf0f78
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Nate!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Nate say to Karen:
NC>> it's easy to be for abortion... unless
NC>> of course you are the
NC>> one being abortied....
KD>> That "one" doesn't have any rights yet because they're not born yet.
KD>> It's that simple. Birth is the beginning of rights.
NC> This kind of logic is so stupid it's pathetic! Accoriding to this
NC> 5 minutes before it's birth, it's not human.. but as soon as the
NC> baby makes it out, it's human!! So what happen at that moment of
Birth
NC> that made it more human than just before it was born?
It took a breath and became, by the standards of your babble, a living creature.
It also released it's leech-hold on the host's nutrient. However, since
it can take it's first breath just about anytime past five months, with
intervention, it can become a human.
NC> Your logic is not only fautly, it's sick........
Better faulty logic than none, as is your case.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... What do you call a brunette with a blonde on each side? An interpreter.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Quote material?
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:40:16
EID:bb6d 22273d00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fe76
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf10ee
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Nate!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Nate say to Martin:
NC> My Favorite Martian has spoke again!
MG>>> He's a fundy with a lawyer.
NC>> I guess that's why everyone thinks you have a "higher education" It
NC>> allows you to label everyone as a "fundy"..
MG>> Only those with IQ's equal to their shoe size, Fundy.
NC> Don't look know but your so called higher education is leading you
NC> into major hallucinations, since you don't have a real clue to my shoe
NC> size. I sure hope your anchors to reality are more secure than your
NC> wisdom seems to be....
Nope, but he can hypothesize that it is unlikely to be more than 15 or 16
and more likely to be about 10. Therefore, his metaphorical (like the parts
of the babble you fundies disagree with with but can't edit) comment is
about stupid fundies.
NC> Your losing it big time man.......
Only in your delusions, dearie.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Eye of newt, toe of frog & a sprig of parsley for my breath, please!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: It's true! You're a schmuck!
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:43:03
EID:d9f9 22273d60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1feb1
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cf15c8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Nate!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Nate say to Marty:
MG>> YOu are a fucking moron.
NC>> Tsk, Tsk... Some more of that "Higher Education" stuff showing
NC>> through!
ML>> I doesn't require an LLD to state the incredibly obvious.
ML>> You are a fucking moron; and a prosaic one as well.
NC> More evidence of what higher education can do to ones brain.....
Got stuck on the word "prosaic", huh??
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Save Florida: Teach a Yankee how to drive!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Staal wants to know
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:43:47
EID:c972 22273d60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fee1
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2cf10000
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Mimi!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Mimi say to Fredric:
>>>MG> That's just Terrifid.
>> ML> A little sea water will take care of that problem.
dr>> I thought it was rain that did away with the infestation.
FR>> Rain took care of the Triffids and rain also took care of
FR>> the Andromeda Strain. I think that sound waves took care of
FR>> the pods.
MM> Rain? Seawater? Nothing of the kind... the only thing Triffids
MM> were vulnerable to was a flamethrower. The book ends with
MM> Triffids all over the place - and all the humans can do is
MM> HOPE they will eventually find a way to exterminate them.
That's the book, luv. Movies need happy endings, unless they're British.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "If only I could blame Quark for this somehow." - Odo
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: J J Hitt
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:51:40
EID:5c2e 22273e60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20167
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cc66b1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J!
GtP>>> It's because Suzanne has to deal with that kind of crap at
GtP>>> school. It is very hurtful to her and, thus, to me.
JH>> And just a few messages back you were slobbering about how
JH>> much you would like a big fat greasy slab of red meat.
JH>> Did it ever occur to you that there is a connection between
JH>> what you eat and how much you weigh?
If he had been criticising me, no problem. He was criticising my daughter
who 1) can't defend herself here YET (and we all know how rabid you all
got about Sean doing that to Becke), 2) isn't all that overweight, much
of excess being "baby-fat" that is going away as maturity settles in.
Yes, I am fat. Yes, it is because I love food. Yes, my appetite for food
is a sign of my other appetites. I'm comfortable with it. So dis me,
not my child.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Grow your own dope. Plant a FUNDIE!!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Domino
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:55:43
EID:4d1e 22273ee0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d201a9
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2cca8ab9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Dan:
C6>> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY ADDRESSES OF
DC>> Save your money and buy a clue to figure out where your
DC>> FUCKING CAPS LOCK key is located.
D >> That's not the only clue he needs.
DC>> Nice to see that you have your feed cleared up.
DC>> Sit back and enjoy the fun and fundys!
D> Yup yup. Didn't expect to see Gwenny over here. Nice to see a familiar
D> name tho.
What can I say, even fat, I get around.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Culture owes its peaks to politically weak ages. - Nietzsche
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 07 Jan 97 07:57:02
EID:cca2 22273f20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d202e4
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cca03c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Glen:
GT>> That's because he chose to pick not on myself or on Gwenny, but on
a
GT>> child who doesn't even participate in this echo, Suzanne.
DW> No, dumbass. Suzanne was simply a means to an end. That end was to,
among
DW> other things, get you and/or your wife pissed off enough to where you
DW> started babbling silly shit. The aforementioned end, along with several
DW> others, was reached.
What was that? We simply dropped it after realizing you were incapable
of listening to reason. And YOU continued to pursue it into other messages,
arguing with things that weren't said. Fundy girl is rubbing off on you,
huh.
Well, now I REALLY won't waste the money to fly out and see you.
DW> One disappointment, though, was the fact that I received neither
DW> threats of physical violence or lawsuits. I had really hoped to get
DW> one or the other; maybe even both.
Why would we bother to threaten you? If we want that kind of fun, we have
Focus on the Fallacy just down the hill. You must have us confused with
someone else. Don't worry. We've learned to make allowances for folks
from Tennessee.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (O)h sh!t....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:02:48
EID:0a0b 22274040
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d203cb
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdba75
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to David:
GP>> wait to see him making himself look silly answering my posts to other
GP>> people.
DW>> This from someone who babbles about sentient cabbages?
DC> So, Just when did Gwenny raise Staal to that level? She's
DC> gonna hear about this!
Yep, I heard. He's just having a hard day or something. He's been like
this for a couple of weeks. Either he'll get over it or I just won't bother
reading his posts. Actually, I hadn't really been reading them before unless
they were to me. Alot of people I don't read, don't have the time. Especially
now that I can talk to them real time in IRC.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Why experiment on animals with John Prewett out there?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:05:52
EID:7d2c 222740a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20410
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cdbde5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Domino:
DC>> Sit back and enjoy the fun and fundys!
Do>> Yup yup. Didn't expect to see Gwenny over here. Nice to see a familiar
Do>> name tho.
DC> All you had to do was ask! And, yes, seeing a familiar name makes the
DC> introduction to a new Echo a bit easier to handle, especially one such
DC> as this one. }:-)
See, and you thought I didn't have a life outside HolySmoke.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... That's one for the psychic philosopher.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:07:44
EID:b3d3 222740e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20827
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cdf31d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Glen:
DW> Many atheists count pagans as allies. Hell, until recently, I considered
DW> pagans to be allies, albeit goofy ones. Recent events conspired to bring
me
DW> to re-evaluate the status of pagans, though.
You don't want to play ball, don't throw it in the first place. You claim
to have just been trolling for angry responses. You got a couple and now
your feelings are hurt. Poor baby. I guess this means you'll go and attack
the guy whose son is 320 pounds. Go ahead. Troll. (Of course, this is
a man, it might be okay)
I don't have to re-evaluate my opinion about atheists, as I was never silly
enough to be think that lack of belief meant a person had any brains or
was a decent human being. If you have been basing your life on stereotypes,
I am happy to assist you in overcoming that personality defect.
DW> Superstition is superstition, whether it is a large, well organized
DW> superstition, or a superstition practiced by a small group of goofy
DW> adults who were deprived as children and consequently feel the need
to
DW> traipse nekkid around the forest.
So where do us atheist pagans fit? And who traipses naked in the woods?
It's friggin cold up here. I save my naked for indoors. How sad that your
obvious lack of self-esteem, possibly because YOU were deprived as a child,
leads you to make fun of others who don't have the same lack. Even my "fat",
"twinkie munching" daughter has enough self-confidence to not attack others
for physical failings. But, of course, she was raised by "goofy" pagans
with superstitions like respect of others and concern for others.
DW> Ya'll are just nice, big, pathetic but still worthwhile targets now.
DW> Enjoy.
Okay. And you have been relegated to the list that includes other rude
people like Jim Staal and Nate Cookson. Enjoy.
"Bummer of a birth mark, man"--Far Side cartoon.
DW> I'm in the process of re-evaluating Humanists, as well. One regular
DW> here is beginning to sound suspiciously like Jesse Jones.
DW> ~~~ When I see something I know to be deliberately hurtful with no
DW> apparent good deriving from it, I say something, just as I have done
DW> in this case. All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men
DW> to say nothing. And, what you are doing (and did to Brawley) is evil.-
DW> Marilyn Burge, Caped Crusader for Justice, 30 Dec 96 + Origin: John
DW> Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
At least you pick good targets that aren't likely to get you
any support from the rest of the atheists. Been nice knowing
you, David.
Well, maybe not.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Coming soon to BBC1: Doctor Who: The Next ReGeneration.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: truth
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:23:46
EID:6bfd 222742e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21754
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cdf3a2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Glen:
DW> You mean like that goofy shit about raven banners?
It happens to be a quote from a song. Of course, it isn't from a "goofy"
heavy metal songs, so you probably don't recognize it.
DW> ~~~ When I see something I know to be deliberately
DW> hurtful with no apparent good deriving from it,
DW> I say something, just as I have done in this case.
DW> All that is needed for evil to prevail is for
DW> good men to say nothing. And, what you are doing
DW> (and did to Brawley) is evil.- Marilyn Burge,
DW> Caped Crusader for Justice, 30 Dec 96
This is gonna be fun.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:24:58
EID:bdd0 22274300
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d208d3
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32cdf31d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Glen:
Hey, lady, you are about to be listed with us "goofy" pagans as a "nice,
big, pathetic" target.
DW>>> He has, though, allied (however tentatively) himself with the
DW>>> Armies of Light (that would be us) and against the Armies of
DW>>> Darkness, Irrationality, Fear, and Superstition (that would be you
DW>>> and your brethren). It is
GT>> That's very much a matter of perspective.
DW> Many atheists count pagans as allies. Hell, until recently, I considered
DW> pagans to be allies, albeit goofy ones. Recent events conspired to bring
me
DW> to re-evaluate the status of pagans, though. Superstition is superstition,
DW> whether it is a large, well organized superstition, or a superstition
DW> practiced by a small group of goofy adults who were deprived as children
DW> and consequently feel the need to traipse nekkid around the forest.
DW> Ya'll are just nice, big, pathetic but still worthwhile targets now.
Enjoy.
DW> I'm in the process of re-evaluating Humanists, as well. One regular
here is
DW> beginning to sound suspiciously like Jesse Jones.
DW> ~~~ When I see something I know to be deliberately
DW> hurtful with no apparent good deriving from it,
DW> I say something, just as I have done in this case.
DW> All that is needed for evil to prevail is for
DW> good men to say nothing. And, what you are doing
DW> (and did to Brawley) is evil.- Marilyn Burge,
DW> Caped Crusader for Justice, 30 Dec 96
And we thought Jesse leaving was going to mean we had less fun.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Professional soldiers are predictable, but the world is full of amateurs.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Off topic??
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:26:56
EID:978c 22274340
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20944
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A672A89
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Judith!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Judith say to Damien:
DW>> I don't expect anyone to like Heinlein (or any other writer)
DW>> but it irks me to no end to hear opinions that can be shown to be
DW>> untrue simply by reading Heinlein while awake.
JB> I like Heinlein up to and including SIASL. After that, I'd rather chew
JB> cardboard.
So it wasn't my imagination. He DID get really weird. For me, it was Girl
Friday. Didn't like that book at all and actually didn't finish
it for a month after I started it. That rape scene was horrible.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Hi, Rex! I'm Barney. Want to be my frie<>
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:37:12
EID:7d79 222744a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20b72
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6313C0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Judith!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Judith say to David:
DW>> And Jimbo has adopted "PoutyCat," at least when the rest of you are
DW>> not around.
JB> Even when we are. He can't figure out how to make his auto-op work so
JB> the rest of us have to put up with his whining.
Staal gets in IRC, too. Oh, I missed him. Darn.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Freya, Goddess of Love and War: If ya can't lay 'em, slay 'em!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:37:55
EID:b2ab 222744a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20b96
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6313C1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Judith!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Judith say to Marty:
ML>> ... Although, any language where "Ook" is a real word is to be
JB> Ik ook.
Just don't call the Librarian a monkey.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... My tagline's cousin's a fool, and thou art another. -- Tagspeare
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:46:08
EID:8d02 222745c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20d81
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32cf00c9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Gwenny:
SQ>>> Perhaps we can get Sean McCullough to come up with
SQ>>> "For the most part, atheists do not do good things" in Classical
SQ>>> Latin. Sean, how about it?
GtP>> I'll ask him. His feed through us is no longer taking HolySmoke.
SQ> I would appreciate that. Thanks!
I'll call him this morning.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Yoda am I, of Borg. Assimilated will you be.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Domino
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:48:10
EID:14f0 22274600
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20e60
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2cf1ae04
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Katherine:
KW>> Name Location Alignment In the 'Smoke:
KW>> -+-- -+-- -+-- -+--
D> Domino Covington, TN Ecclectic 2 weeks.
Welcome, Domino. Good to have you here. Most of the atheists are pretty
cool, with a few exception like David Worrell. He's decided that us "goofy"
pagans a "nice, pathetic" targets because we fight back.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... In life or death situations if at first you don't succeed, YOU'RE DEAD!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:50:12
EID:e8d0 22274640
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20ebb
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 5b455081
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to Gwenny:
Gt>> Right you are. BTW, have you seen the newest Darwin fish. The fishie
Gt>> has a wrench in it's front paw and the word EVOLVE inside. Too cute.
MB> Lou and I both have that one on our vehicles. I also have the
MB> "original," but that fell off Lou's pickup the last time he went
MB> through the car wash. My latest is a bumper sticker of a Jesus
MB> fish being swallowed by a shark named "science."
Oh, I want that one. I am so tired of that bumper sticker with the fundy
fish eating the Darwin fish that says "The Truth will prevail." I want
a sticker that has the Darwin fish cooking the Fundy fish on a campfire
that says, "The truth DID prevail."
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Holiday Wishes:
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:54:32
EID:567e 222746c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20f87
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cf02cc
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:
Gt>>> Works for me. You bring the Egg Nog I'll bring the Capt Morgan.
DC>> Can I bring Morgan Fairchild?
GtP>> I'd ask if you were sharing, but I don't like skinny blondes.
DC> Well, then, bring along as many of them as you would like to rid
DC> yourself of. :)
Sorry, fresh out.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Question Authority ... And the Authorities will question YOU!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 08:56:26
EID:4e61 22274700
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20ff3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32cfa0d1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Fredric:
FR>> You're sick, dear. You need an exit councelor.
dc>> I hear that Dr Kavorkian has volunteered his services.
FR>> Now _that's_ a good exit!
DC> Yep. I heard that Jack was branching off from the terminally
DC> ill to consider working with the terminally stupid.
How much would he charge to go to Tennessee?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Einstein has "I before E" wrong twice in his name.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:00:14
EID:48b6 22274800
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d210f3
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Carl!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Carl say to MARTIN:
MG@>> We don't want bible quotes. We want to know spcifically why your
god
MG@>> starves innocnet people to death.
CP> And how do I prove this point with out quoting bible text?
Bingo! You can't, anymore than you can provide evidence of the bible's
main character. There might be hope for you.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... URA Redneck if you consider a family reunion a chance to meet women.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Sean
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:03:48
EID:b843 22274860
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d211ab
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 733c31ee
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> So, if you want to scream at Sean, you'll have to do it in email,
GtP>> if he's even getting that.
MG> HD crash? Sheneism?
Death in family, lack of HD space.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... What do bunnies do at a Pagan Festival? Take notes.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: HORSEPITALS
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:05:53
EID:c195 222748a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d2129a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Becke!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Becke say to Sue:
BB> Believe it or not, I've mentioned to Becke that I'd like that inscribed
on
BB> *my* wedding band as well -- however, I want the jeweler/engraver to
use
BB> the Mordor-script printed in Tolkien's _Fellowship of the Ring_ if
BB> possible, and if that's not possible, use the quote "Ash nazg durbatuluk,
BB> ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul!"
Cool!
BB> Note that my ring, at size 15 and 6mm wide, is plenty big enough to
BB> hold the entire inscription.
Careful there's a couple of atheists out there who are disenchanted with
us "goofy" pagans and will start telling you that you don't wear a ring,
that's a frisbee with a hole in it.
BB> Sue me, I've always wanted to rule the Earth from my very own black
BB> fortress in the East.
BB> Paul
Hey, what are you doing in Becke's mailer???
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Edward Scissorhands was an early Borg prototype.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:09:18
EID:3fbb 22274920
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21326
REPLY: 1:207/212 cd67ad59
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Karen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Karen say to Sue:
AS>> I know Becke has off and on been in hard financial positions herself,
AS>> also.
SA>> So's Paul. But of course, Sean won't see that; he probably thinks
SA>> Becke chose Paul simply BECAUSE he's deeply in debt .. a twisted
SA>> logic if I've ever seen one.
KD> Being in bad money situations has a strong effect on someone - it can
KD> mess up your judgement completely.
Sean is not here to defend himself. I think, since everyone bitched about
it when he was answering questions about Becke and she wasn't here, it is
only fair to not talk about him until he returns.
Besides, I think Styx said he'd heard enough.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "I know you're dead, but you're still a smeghead." -- Lister
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:11:23
EID:affc 22274960
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21378
REPLY: 1:358/1 03c0280e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Nate:
NC>> Now, you can reject the message of the book, but everyone agrees
NC>> that the bible has survived, and is unrivaled in it's manuscript
NC>> attestion.
QF> Well, the Kama Sutra has also survived. Does that mean that I should
start
QF> a religion based on it? (T'would be a religion even I could believe
in)
Hey, I could make that the Official Scriptures of my cult.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... If God is Love, and Love is blind, is Ray Charles God?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:12:03
EID:451f 22274980
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d2142a
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d14ff5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to David:
GT>>> That's because he chose to pick not on myself or on Gwenny, but on
a
GT>>> child who doesn't even participate in this echo, Suzanne.
DW>> No, dumbass. Suzanne was simply a means to an end. That end was to,
DW>> among other things, get you and/or your wife pissed off enough to where
DW>> you started babbling silly shit. The aforementioned end, along with
DW>> several others, was reached.
GT> Silly shit? Such as would include any responses at all to your profane
GT> blatherings? I suppose so?
He's having a bad hair life. I say just ignore him and watch what Marilyn
does to him.
DW>> One disappointment, though, was the fact that I received neither
DW>> threats of physical violence or lawsuits. I had really hoped to get
DW>> one or the other; maybe even both.
GT> You'll have better luck on that with the Jaysus-shouters. Funny old
GT> world, isn't it, where the Heathens are more mature and civilized than
the
GT> Christians.
I think he's projecting. Notice how he insists that Suzanne eats Twinkies,
even though I'm pretty sure she's never even tasted one?? Twinkies are
his snack of choice. Perhaps he's lying to us, and the reason he can't
get any girls but Baptist is that he's a behemoth that is trapped in his
house and the only women he can get are the ones who come to the door trying
to save souls.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Last words of Socrates: "I drank what?!?!"
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: True Folk
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:14:47
EID:a604 222749c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d214a1
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d15127
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to David:
GT>>> In a larger scope (as I originally used it), I would define that term
GT>>> as including any person who is honourable and ethical, and who is
GT>>> true to their kin and kindred, and to their people and the path of
GT>>> their people.
DW>> And anyone not "true to their kin and kindred..." is False Folk Scum.
GT> How would you classify such? Are you suggesting, perhaps, that _you_
are
GT> not true to your kin and kindred?
It is difficult not to be true to yourself and your family. Perhaps, were
we to ever have to judge someone as not "true folk" we could just name them
False David Worrell Scum. He could be immortalized.
DW>> Thanks for reinforcing my point.
GT> Thanks for enlightening us as to the above.
GT> FYI, as several people have already informed you, the word 'true' can
have
GT> several meanings other than the Steve Winter one. 'Course, I expect
that
GT> you didn't read those posts, as you were just looking for things you
could
GT> be childish and abusive about.
He's not interested in debate or reasoning, he is just lashing out. Just
answer him enough to keep him focused on us and then ignore the rest.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Calliope does it poetically!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: truth
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:16:42
EID:42c0 22274a00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d214ec
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d15302
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to David:
DW>> You mean like that goofy shit about raven banners?
GT> When you finally get a clue as to why that's there, _then_ let me know.
GT> Until then, go spew our juvenile inanities at somebody else.
Don't hold your breath, dear, he only recognizes "goofy" quotes from heavy
metal songs.
DW>> ~~~ When I see something I know to be deliberately
DW>> hurtful with no apparent good deriving from it,
DW>> I say something, just as I have done in this case.
GT> Sounds just like all of the various reactions to you. Glad you finally
GT> noticed.
DW>> All that is needed for evil to prevail is for
DW>> good men to say nothing.
GT> Only reason I stay here (except for the entertainment value of watching
GT> idiots prove it in public.)
So, we will be watching David for the next couple of weeks, I take it.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Remote computing does not mean a mouse with a 9 foot cord.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:18:06
EID:1a69 22274a40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21557
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1562b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to David:
DW>> Many atheists count pagans as allies. Hell, until recently, I
DW>> considered pagans to be allies, albeit goofy ones.
GT> What's that got to do with me, in any case? I've certainly laid no
claim
GT> to the above title in here.
Hey, that's right. We're the goofy heathens.
DW>> Recent events conspired to bring me to re-evaluate the status of
DW>> pagans, though. Superstition is superstition, whether it is a large,
DW>> well organized superstition, or a superstition practiced by a small
DW>> group of goofy adults who were deprived as children and consequently
DW>> feel the need to traipse nekkid around the forest.
GT> So you are reduced so quickly to childish "You're one too" shouting,
are
GT> you? Yes, a good many Pagans _were_ deprived as children (and adults)
--
GT> deprived by a Church they have since learned to loathe with good reason
of
GT> the chance to grow up as strong, proud, educated, and free people.
Yes,
GT> many have now realized the need to heal themselves of the wrongs and
GT> injuries done them. More power to them. If that healing requires an
GT> occasional 'traipse nekked around the forest' (a comment which, BTW,
GT> reveals the more clearly your own pathological self-hatred), then that
is
GT> what it does, and what business is it of yours?
You're wasting your time trying to reason with him. His genetics must have
kicked in.
DW>> Ya'll are just nice, big, pathetic but still worthwhile targets now.
DW>> Enjoy.
GT> Enjoy your pathetic attempts at 'hitting' us? Enjoy watching as each
of
GT> your petulant and immature broadsides succeeds only in laying yourself
open
GT> to the laughter of everybody else on the net? Certainly. Predictable
GT> and pathetic, but nonetheless mildly entertaining at times.
Especially considering what he claims is his next target.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... My other computer has Lwaxana Troi's voice.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: truth
|Date: 07 Jan 97 09:48:24
EID:042f 22274e00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d21bfb
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d1ecd5
TID: