God Damned Fundies!
|From: Glen Todd
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:20:42
EID:e0c5 222b6a80
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d793d1
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d6c372
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Al Schroeder!
Friday January 10 1997 15:18, Al Schroeder wrote to Ronald Vass:
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
Oxymoron.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... "Change is inevitable." -- Disraeli
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:23:08
EID:ba1e 222b6ae0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d794ad
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1caf9921
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, ROBERT CURRY!
Friday January 10 1997 03:42, ROBERT CURRY wrote to GLEN TODD:
MB>> Isn't there something in POLICY 4 about being excessively
MB>> annoying?
GT>> Styx, you paying attention?
RC> Don't forget the other half -- about not being so easily annoyed.
_I'm_ not annoyed -- I'm laughing. I just wanted to know if Styx was paying
attention.
MB>> I've just now twitted him.
GT>> I'm contemplating doing likwise.
RC> Only AFTER whining to the moderator? Are you trying to be excessively
RC> annoying?
Some people say that I'm _very_ trying. I do my best.
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!
... My God, he spaced the teddy bear!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:25:12
EID:01b2 222b6b20
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d79513
REPLY: 1:207/212 3048396d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Karen Davis!
While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Karen Davis
whisper furtively to Jim Staal something about jesus needed...:
KD> The model for our creator should not exclude half of the human beings
on
KD> earth.
Any religion which excludes the Goddess is half atheistic. {I've forgotten
who said this, but I agree.}
Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia
KALI WANTS YOU!
... Never invoke anything that you don't know how to banish.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: All
|Sub: Miracle on Jan 4
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:43:06
EID:1201 222b7560
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef131
Hello All!
Did you all see it: On Jan-04-97 George the Mooth actually
replied to 4 msgs from Rod Swift, and they sat right inside
a run of his usual unsolicited rubbish, so it was not a fake.
Here is one of them (just in case you missed out)
QUOTE:
> Date : Jan 04 '97, 12:33
> From : George Mooth 1:2285/100
> To : Rod Swift
> Subj : Our Daily Bread
>
> GM> THE ONLY WAY TO BE RIGHT
> GM> IS TO AGREE WITH GOD WHEN HE SAYS WE'RE WRONG.
>
> RS>Isn't that mental enslavery, Moothy?
>
> We are all in mental salavery. You just have to choose who you want
> to be the slave of. You choose Satan and all the sick immoral posts
> you put in here. Satan uses you every day in this conference. Talk
> about mental slavery - He's got you!
>
> ð Geo ð
> gmooth@sprynet.com
>
> 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
>
> --- PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
> Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
UNQUOTE
Now how come he only wants to speak to Australians and the
rest of us get ignored? I am also in the Southern hemisphere
but I am obviously not good enough
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:06:55
EID:5a05 222b78c0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef132
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737b5fa1
Hello J.J.!
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to David Worrell:
JJH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
JJH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one
JJH> before too much more time passes.
I like them all :-)
The last one surely comes under the more miraculous stuff,
like when Jesse Jones makes his triumphant re-entry in HS
as a born-once-again-Buddhist.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:40:03
EID:fda1 222b7d00
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef133
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6DAC4B
Hello Judith!
Judith Bandsma wrote in a message to Al Schroeder:
AS> It's not that. It's the fact that it simulated death to the point
AS> that it fooled Roman Centurions, who were probably as familiar with
JB> Al, try this on for size...Jesus was really twins.
Already old news... Christopher Knight & Robert Lomas make this
claim in "The Hiram Key", c1996 ISBN 0 7126 8579 0.
The name Jesus/Yahoshua is interpreted as "savior" and not seen
as the actual name of the man who was crucified.
The man's twin was Thomas, again not a name but a reference to
being a twin.
Further interesting information about this rather unfortunate
family:
James the Just's real name was Jaakov, but even he went under
the classification of 'Jesus'. All the brothers were members
of the Nasorean sect, ie the Essenes or Qumran sect which
awaited a real-life overthrow of an 'ungodly' government and
new-world order according to the Law of Moses. The first
born was seen as 'the royal or worldly Messiah' and therefore
described as 'Yahoshua Bar Adam' (Jesus, son of Man), while
Jaakov was seen as 'the priestly Messiah' and described as
'Yahoshua Bar Abba' (Jesus, son of the Father (God)).
Pilate's trial of both brothers shows which of these men
was most respected by the people, thus Barabba(s) went home
and Baradam was executed (and perhaps some guys confused
poor old Thomas with the dead man).
Later Saul of Tarsus hijacked the story, changed things a
bit around, downgraded Jaakov in favor of Peter, and
generally made a mockery of reality. No wonder the Qumram
community called him "The Spouter of Lies".
Interesting yarn, ehh?
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Gnat and abortion
|Date: 11 Jan 97 18:27:55
EID:ca0d 222b9360
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef136
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6DAC4C
Hello Judith!
Judith Bandsma wrote in a message to All:
JB> The study was done in Denmark (where, I gather, abortion has
JB> always been legal) on 1.5 million women born between 1935
JB> and 1970, on the correlation of abortion to increased risk
JB> of breast cancer.
Abortion as a procedure has been legal in most Western countries,
in cases of rape, incest, and to save the mother's life. Abortion
on demand was, however, NOT legal in Denmark - at least not up
to 1965 when I left. A woman seeking an abortion had to apply
to an state institution named "Mothers Help". There she would be
evaluated by social workers and psychiatrists to determine
whether there were medical or social reasons to grant her wish.
"Social reasons" were mainly considered: underage pregnancies,
too many children already, poverty, depression, very low IQ.
The women who got a NO to abortion were offered support in
the form of residence in a "preggers home", free hospitalization
for the birth, and immediate placement of the baby in a state
orphanage for adoption.
Not quite as free and easy as you might have imagined, but
still some kind of solution. I know these facts as my
sister-in-law worked as a social worker for "Mothers Help"
back in the 60es.
Of course most women who already knew they would get a NO
simply went to a "liberal gynecologist" (and there were
many of them) who provided a small D&C in the office,
went home, waited 2 hours, and called an ambulance. The
hospitals then routinely took care of the rest under the
heading "spontaneous miscarriage".
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:01:21
EID:2adb 222b9820
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef137
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6CFC27
Hello Judith!
Judith Bandsma wrote in a message to Brian Shreve:
-=> Brian Shreve spoke thusly to Ric Carter <=-
BS> itself, when 1600 turned to 1700 and 1700 turns to 1800 (etc etc)
BS> there was the SAME ol millennium madness. It is NOTHING new, not
JB> And we might get an extra year of peace if the stupid
JB> fundies would learn to count. There was no year 0.
JB> Therefore, the 21st century doesn't begin until Jan. 1,
JB> 2001.
Yes, and BTW I think Brian has confused millennium with
century. Oh well...
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Satan
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 10 Jan 97 10:34:11
EID:7315 222a5440
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 c7c28a4b
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415b
Wasn't it 08 Jan 97 when "Fredric Rice" wrote to "Steve Quarrella"?
So, Fredric... you said...
FR> As I recall Martin Reily made some comment about shutting-up
FR> HolySmoke.
sq> He backed off of his Fundamentalism after he bought a TV and
sq> his "church friends" rejected him.
FR> Yes, I recall that he started making noises about not being a
FR> Christian any more. I wonder if any of us helped him escape
FR> or whether it was (as is often the case) fellow Christians
FR> which inadvertantly helped him.
sq> I almost felt sorry for the guy, because he was a textbook
sq> example of the recipient of Fundamentalist Christian love: We
sq> love you only so long as you're a bee in the hive. If you
sq> aren't, fuck you, you're "of Satan." "Salvation for Sale,"
sq> "The Mind of the Bible Believer," and "Holy Terror" all share
sq> similar stories of Fundies who have been cast into the
sq> proverbial lake of fire by their ex-mates.
FR> I never knew anything about this television thing. Was he
FR> told that he couldn't have a television? Does his entire cult
FR> fraction dictate that?
Martin Riley used to be very active in the local net (134). Sadly,
we've seen little of him lately. Apparently he now prefers to play
on the Internet...
He was a hard-case Christian who had come to the faith through a
crisis. He used to run that Maranantha Net.
It was weird when, one day, his attitude changed. He had been put
through a crisis by his own congregation. He had bought his family
a TV and the entire congregation ostracized him and family members
as a result. It hurt him a great deal, and through that hurt he
revealed a side which was a little easier to accept.
He didn't feel that he had lost faith in Jesus Christ. He felt he
had lost faith in the church he was attending. Certainly, his
attitude was a bit less fervent despite his insistence that he still
retained his relationship with Jesus Christ.
We were very amused when he invited Us out for a beer or two :-)
We did not go :-(
Martin did get a little closer to reality through all of that. He
gave up the Net he was running due to some other matters (another
local religious idiot spent a great deal of time and effort writing
Netmail posts which amounted to vicious back-stabbing). He became
less likely to use Christian rhetoric to support his arguments. He
became easier going and still felt he had faith in his God. He felt
he was no longer a Christian, but We did point out that he still
retained the flavour despite his loss of fellowship.
From the quill of Satan...
... A man with a gun is safer than a man with a bible and a gun.
--- PPoint 2.02
* Origin: Satan challenges God to show His face! (1:134/67.666)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Jesse's last lament
|Date: 10 Jan 97 21:07:19
EID:e111 222aa8e0
DAVID RICE, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to FREDRIC
RICE
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Steve Quarrella <=-
>>FR> Oh Jesse, we're all so scared that
>>FR> our gods will team up with Wonder Woman to smite
>>FR> us all! <-snort-> I mean, what if we're wrong
>>FR> and Wonder Woman actually _does_ exist?
>SQ> I'll be -running- to join THAT church!
FR> As would many of us. }:-}
DR> RUNNING to join? No. On my knees crawling, sure.
UP on your elbows, Boyhim...
... "Oedipus, you put me down! I'll poke your eyes out." - Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: The Alignment List
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:17:39
EID:123a 222b3a20
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to J.J. Hitt
DC> ! Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
Currently, the submarine division...
... Atheists don't go door-to-door to tell people to believe science.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: RE: *CR* CAT POOP COOKIES
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:18
EID:0ace 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 8 Jan 97 11:23am, DAN CEPPA wrote to GWENNY THE POOH:
DC> Gwenny, I think it was you that was looking for this!
DC> Enjoy!
->> Re: *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
Reminds me of the recipe I have for Kitty Litter Cake..
Becke
... "IT FOUND ME!" -- Campus Crusade for Cthulhu.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 53
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: RE: BLACK LIPSTICK
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:18
EID:5a43 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 8 Jan 97 09:44pm, DAMIEN WELLMAN wrote to FREDRIC RICE:
DW> This would be something that happened in my local area. The school
in
DW> question has a very hazy rule about prohibiting "disruptive" behaviour
DW> or dress. The student in question was wearing black lipstick (which
DW> seems to be a current fad nationwide), a teacher claimed that the
DW> lipstick violated this rule and called in the principal to expel her.
DW> The school was sued over it, mainly because the rule was so vague that
DW> there was too much room for inconsistancy in enforcing it. The student
DW> was allowed back in school, but her parents transferred her to a
DW> different school anyhow. The general opinion locally is that the
DW> school administrators are a bunch of idiots for expelling the girl.
They EXPELLED her for wearing black lipstick? Sheesh, when I was in high
school, the worst you got when you broke the dress code (holes in the ass
of
your pants, or wearing a tee-shirt w/ profanity or such) was a couple of
days
of detention...
Becke
... Anger not a Redhead, for thou would make a silly trophy on the wall.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: RE: CHEESE WHIZ ON TOAST
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:19
EID:1e5a 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 8 Jan 97 01:20pm, FREDRIC RICE wrote to NATE COOKSON:
NC>> Unlike a organ removed durning a operation, the fetus will become a
NC>> human.. It has everything it needs to grow and be born...
FR> No, your masters are lying to you. Most pregnacies spontaneously abort
FR> even before the woman knows that she's preggers.
One out of three pregnancies, if I remember correctly...
Becke
... Dragons aren't extinct, they just have redheads protecting them .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: RE: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:19
EID:5e5b 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 8 Jan 97 01:41pm, FREDRIC RICE wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA:
FR> I wonder if any of them realize that boycotts work both ways.
FR> Christianic zealots which include a fish symbol probably don't even
FR> consider the possibility that non-Christians give their shops a miss.
Reminds me of a used car dealership called "Car Circus" that we have here
in
Harrisburg. The sign changes weekly--I believe last weeks was "Jesus is
Lord". ;)
Becke
... I'm Dyslexsic of Borg. Prepare to have your ass laminated.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: RE: FALSE CHRISTIAN SCUM
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:20
EID:d7d7 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 9 Jan 97 01:41pm, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to RONALD VASS:
RV>> Here.....little girl, hold this can of gas, while i strike up
RV>> a match to toss into the flames. Goddess Gwen, now they
RV>> will be tossing the darts at you.
GT> Oh well, time to get out the brass bra. Actually only David and
JJ
GT> are fussing about it. Becke and Sue either took in stride or haven't
GT> gotten it yet. At least, we're all still talking to each other
on
GT> IRC.
Frankly, I agree with you..I'm tired of it all. I'm just sitting back and
waiting for it all to pass over. It's not worth the time or energy.
Becke
... I am never led astray, I just choose the path of least morality.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: RE: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:20
EID:50fc 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 9 Jan 97 06:26am, CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK wrote to JONATHAN FINGAS:
CH> God (the Father) wan't too opposed to striking people dead. After all,
CH> He does hate sin. Sometimes He waits for natural biological death,
CH> before judging us. In the Old Test. we see Him judging earlier than
CH> that. Even in the N.T., we have some people being struck dead for
CH> simply telling a lie. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice God you got there...and you expect us to worship this bastard??
Becke
... If the fundies won't be there, hell can't be that bad!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: RE: MASTURBATION
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:21
EID:5f6e 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 9 Jan 97 09:43am, AL SCHROEDER wrote to GWENNY THE POOH:
GtP>> I have no problem with masturbation. I never had. I could never
GtP>> understand what the problem is.
AS> Well, for males, one must be careful not to leave stains on things...
That's what towels are made for, Al..;)
Becke
... *- If God is omnipotent, why does he need my money ?
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 54
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: RE: PLASTIC SURGERY
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:21:17
EID:b5e2 222b7aa0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 7 Jan 97 02:00am, DAVID WORRELL wrote to DOUG LEE:
DW> 06 Jan 97 10:33, Doug Lee wrote to All:
DL>> I just saw a comercial on TV where they were advertising nose jobs
and
DL>> breast enhancments for, get this, " No money down. Pay no interest
DL>> for.." I missed for how long.
DW> There's a local finance company that specializes in cosmetic surgery.
DW> Sad, ain't it?
You think that's bad?? I was checking the bartering bulletin board on an
Internet site, and there was an offer there--the lady was apparently a
personal trainer, and was willing to offer her services for those of a
plastic surgeon..
Becke
... *- The symbol of christianity is the founder killing himself. Think
a
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 53
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: JEREMIAH 31:15 / Matthew 2:16
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:48:00
EID:3cbc 222b5e00
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY - Herod will kill the children.
Thus says the Lord, "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation are bitter
weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children, she refuses to be compforted
for her children, because they are no more."
FULFILLMENT: Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he
became very enraged, and send and slew all the children who in
Bethlehemand in all its environs, from two years old and under, according
to the time which he had ascertained from the magi.
Wise mem came from the east and told Herod that a new king has been born,
this one to rule the Jews. Politically, Herod could not afford another
uprising in the lands he oversew for Rome, and the title, KING OF THE
JEWS, was at the moment his. So, not knowing the exact identity of the
newborn King, he decreed that all babies two old and younger should be
slaughtered in the desperate hope that by doing so the infant King would
be among those killed.
Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Jan 97 16:52:26
EID:1aac 222b8680
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32d80b9a
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6BE5FF
JF> kill the target of their wrath. Can't these people see what they're
JF> doing? Can't anyone?
JB> You have to remember, these people will tell you in no uncertain terms
JB> that they are pro-LIFE.
True, they're pro-life - but apparently for only some of it. Why don't
these people then protest peacefully and donate to charities?
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Jan 97 16:54:54
EID:fb75 222b86c0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32d80c2e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4199
FR> While I haven't seen any of that I can say that murder
FR> has been and continues to be a very large part of
FR> Christian ideology. If history teaches us anything it
FR> is that Christianity has been and continues to be a
FR> deadly set of ideologies -- deadly for fellow believers
FR> and for innocent people alike.
FR> That Christians would like to see a murderer killed is
FR> in keeping with the faith. (And Islamic faith, I will
FR> add.)
Murder isn't part of the Christian faith! Jesus taught non-violence and
tolerance. The fault lies more in that people have let power and emotion
override the teachings.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Jan 97 17:01:04
EID:3df7 222b8820
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32d80da0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d59a2b
DC> The problem is that they don't understand that there is only
DC> one individual that is involved in the decision: The woman.
True. But don't forget, not all abortions are because the woman doesn't
feel like having the kid. Too often the parents are outraged and insist
that the baby be aborted; also the climate into which the baby might be
born (extreme poverty, violence) might be fatal for it. There have even
been a few cases in which keeping the baby would have killed either the
mother, the baby, or both.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Evolution
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:47:38
EID:b32b 222b9de0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7ee87
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
FWDFROM Martin Eble
FWDORIG 1:152/62
FWDTO Ron Stringfellow
FWDSUBJ Evolution
FWDAREA R_CATHOLIC
FWDMSGID 1:152/62.0 67dac02d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
=============================================================================
* Forwarded by Steve Quarrella (1:124/9005)
* Area : R_CATHOLIC (Roman Catholic Question and Answer Forum)
* From : Martin Eble, 1:152/62 (Mercurii dies January 08 1997 07:36)
* To : Ron Stringfellow
* Subj : Evolution
=============================================================================
Ron Stringfellow:
Martin Eble:
RS> Yes, you are right of course. It also says it is a belief
RS> that goes contrary to the Word of God.
That's a ridiculous statement on its face. The Bible does not
purport to be a scientific document or textbook.
ME>> Let's use some common sense here Ron.
ME>> Why in the heck do think you're entitled to decide what
ME>> methods and processes God ought to use to do as He wishes?
RS> First and foremost He states through His OWN WORDS as
RS> inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Through human authors to a human audience whose limits are
recognized in the text. He does not explicate atomic theory, the
true nature of the solar system, or describe antibiotics because
they are not relevant to the religious purpose of the text.
RS> Let's cut to the chase here Martin. Do you believe these
RS> words:
RS> "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
RS> breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became
RS> a living soul."
Sure. God created our universe out of nothing, and He acted
(formed) in that creation (the dust of the ground) in a
particular way to create man (breathed into his nostrils) with an
immortal soul (a living soul). That is the truth communicated.
RS> That is pretty descriptive. As descriptive as a sovereign God
RS> need to get for His subjects anyway.
Certainly if I was a nomad living 4,000 years ago it would
communicate to me the important truth that God created us.
As a 20th century American I do understand what the nomad did
not, that the description may not be literal.
RS>> This is the same cop-out used by pentecostals when asked
RS>> how God uses charlatans in these supposed healings.
ME>> It's not a cop-out to point out that there's fossil records
ME>> and other evidence of a much longer past than anything in
ME>> the Bible,
RS> Oh? Have you now become the infallibe interpreter of the
RS> Word?
No, have you? You seem to think you've got the inside track, the
true version, the only guide to God's meaning.
ME>> Not necessarily in the same way that *you* accept it.
RS> You have to reconcile the differences somehow, I choose to
RS> err, if I must, on the side of God the Creator, not a process
RS> that eliminates one brick at a time the possibility of God.
That you seem to think it eliminates the possibility of God is a
commentary on your limited perspective rather than any
theological problem with evolution as a theory. The nomad in the
desert is not holier than the scientist in the desert simply
because he is more ignorant.
In tackling the problem, your choice to "reconcile the
differences" with a sword to the Gordion knot has the virtue of
simplicity, but nothing else.
ME>> If we dispensed tommorrow with everything not in the Bible,
ME>> the machine age would conclude, medicine would return to
ME>> hopes and guesses, and we'd believe the Earth was the center
ME>> of the Universe.
RS> Non-sequitur.
Do you understand what the Latin term "non sequitur" means? It
means "it does not follow".
It does not follow that because the creation accounts in the Old
Testament do not include a scientific treatise on evolution that
evolution is void as a theory.
It does follow that were all things not included in the Bible
dispensed with, the machine age would conclude, medicine would
return to hopes and guesses, and the Earth would be believed to
be the center of the Universe.
I am more than pleased to wish you well in your belief; I
similarly indicate that the notion that your literal
interpretation will gain little adherence among those who are
well-educated and non-obdurate.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
# GT 19.00 # Religions change; beer and wine remain. -Harvey Allen
-+- GTMail 1.25
+ Origin: The Western Dominican - (503) 343-3825 (1:152/62.0)
=============================================================================
Salue, Marty!
D‚j… vu, man!
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: RIC CARTER
|Sub: Atheist Taglines
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:56:10
EID:8fce 222b9f00
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f086
REPLY: 1:2002/2002 d949e832
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, RIC!
Lunae dies January 06 1997, Dixit RIC CARTER ad ALL:
.N>> Post a selection of the less well circulated ones, I'm always
.N>> interested in how the other half lives.
RC> last changed: 17.6.1996 e.v.
I found my "'God told me' is no excuse for stupidity" out on someone's web
site a while back. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:05:48
EID:348f 222ba0a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f2c3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d16b3c
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, DAVID!
DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson very
DR>> ugly. Jan Smithers was vastly more appealing.
I'm not turned off by Loni Anderson, but I'll join you in the Jan Smithers
fan club. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:36:44
EID:4ab4 222b5c80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7388f3c3
On Jan 04 12:33 97, George Mooth of 1:2285/100 wrote:
GM> We are all in mental salavery.
Brain spit?
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Domino
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: You really want eternal life?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 09:15:02
EID:439f 222b49e0
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2d79f372
PID: timEd-B11
Leonard, having seen Paul during his little streak, remarked:
LB> PRAISE GOD !
LB> "For God so loved the woved the world that He gave His only
LB> begotten Son, that who ever believes in HIM / HER should not
LB> perish but have everlasting life.
LB> Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will
LB> you from the the hour of trial which shall come upon the
LB> whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Rev.
LB> 3:10)
Strange, because even the saved die. Everlasting "life" in heaven doesnt
count.
LB> Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
But does he *recycle* ?
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:06:20
EID:d55e 222ba0c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f34b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d16c20
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Lunae dies January 06 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> "And bear it." :) I'm having some problems with a serial port over
on
SQ>> the 486, and that's keeping me from getting moving with the server.
Dead serial port, end of story. The 486 is up and running, although I have
to find some time to sit down to tweak Internet Explorer. I'm trying to
find a cheap hub so I can do 10baseT rather than 10base2 with the LAN.
DC> Got a similar problem here. Got a 33.6 that I can't get to work.
I was lucky, as the two we just bought were almost quite literally plug
and go. The one on the BBS had the speaker turned off, and that was it.
DC> Got it! BTW, if things get slow around here, maybe we could talk
DC> Trent into taking up the slack.
If memory serves, he's already taken his lumps in here. He's quite a character,
bravely running away when the going gets tough. Most of that which he spews
is nothing but a bunch of "scat play" anyways. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:09:00
EID:d55e 222ba120
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f3c4
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d170ee
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Lunae dies January 06 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> He dribbled on about how human creativity was some kind of symptom
of
SQ>> "crying out to the divine" (my quotes, not his). Frankly, I think
SQ>> it's symptom of the creativity of human beings. For crying out loud,
DC> It's seems that the most creative go that route or simpley burn out.
DC> Orson Wells was an example of the later.
Sure, but there are still others who are creative, and there are no deities
involved. Jones would have us all crying out to his deities in the pursuit
of our creativity.
DC> If so, then it's similar to the ST _The Menagerie_, in which the
DC> keepers do not have any emotions and find them in that of those
DC> of their captives. Which, of course, makes their god a rather
DC> poor excuse for a god.
The Talosians didn't have a god. :) At least they had -intellect.-
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:10:44
EID:b8b5 222ba140
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f452
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32d1b1be
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jonathan!
Lunae dies January 06 1997, Dixit Jonathan Fingas ad All:
JF> I'm a proud (relatively speaking) Lutheran who goes to church every
JF> Sunday (not always voluntarily, but still).
Why not voluntarily? Or is this a "My folks make me go" kind of thing?
If you go to church, it should be for YOUR needs, and not someone else's
needs (-Especially- a church's needs: They don't own you.).
JF> Something that disturbs me are the people who stand outside the
JF> courtroom at OJ's civil trial or abortion clinics. These people claim
to
JF> be tolerant, loving Christians, but cry "murderer!" and would gladly
kill
JF> the target of their wrath. Can't these people see what they're doing?
JF> Can't anyone?
Ever notice that the State of Utah has the death penalty, and that some
of the kookiest people of the last 25 years have came from Utah, or at least
passed through there (My wife tells me that Ted Bundy was active in her
-neighborhood,- which is just 15 minutes from LDS World HQ.).
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:12:58
EID:31af 222ba180
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f49d
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 508076e9
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marilyn!
Lunae dies January 06 1997, Dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Frankly, I think it's symptom of the creativity of human
SQ>> beings. For crying out loud, even Jesse's deities are
SQ>> responsible for THAT. If so, why do they "call them home" at
SQ>> such a young age? Hendrix and Moon, dead of an accidental
MB> Mama Cass Elliott choked to death on a ham sandwich. I mean, it
In the same room in which Moon died, what? Six years later?
MB> isn't like she was doing anything that would be considered
MB> life-threatening or evil, like skydiving or smoking crack, but
MB> she's just as dead.
Then she must have done something to deserve that.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:15:20
EID:b8fc 222ba1e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f500
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d20d81
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Gwenny!
Martis dies January 07 1997, Dixit Gwenny the Pooh ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>>>> Perhaps we can get Sean McCullough to come up with
SQ>>>> "For the most part, atheists do not do good things" in Classical
SQ>>>> Latin. Sean, how about it?
GtP> I'll call him this morning.
Thanks...I'll be curious to see Jones's finest rendered into a Classical
language like Latin.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:20:58
EID:9d32 222ba280
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f654
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415a
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> You -do- realize that you've probably made the Jesse C.
sq>> Jones Fundy quotefile for that one, don't you? :)
FR> Oh shit! I had better beg for forgiveness and recant, huh? }:-}
Just two hundred years ago, that might have been a requirement for you to
continue living.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:21:34
EID:c1cb 222ba2a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f776
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415b
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
JJ>>>> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the "Great
JJ>>>> Holysmoke" by this time next year. Really think about it. WE CAN
DO
JJ>>>> IT!
FR>> NO THEY CAN'T!
sq>> I would be very willing to bet money that JJ and the other
sq>> JJ can't do it, at least not using the "boycott" methods
sq>> that JJ suggested. Who wants to play some Three Card Monte
sq>> with me on this one? :)
FR> No bet here... not even if every fundy were to pack up and leave this
FR> instant would HolySmoke and our "fun" end.
Of course not. If they were to pack up and leave the PLANET, headed for
the star known as "Sol," THEN maybe the echo would come to a halt. But
it would have to be ALL the Fundies, not just the ones who post in HOLYSMOKE.
What was it that Oscar Wilde said about it being worse to NOT be talked
about than it was TO be talked about?
FR> And in fact I seriously doubt if either JJ has left at all; they're
FR> doubtless waiting around to see how their pretend "boycott" is
FR> working out.
I have no doubt that Jones is still scanning the echo from time to time.
FR> I expect Jesse to return any day now and demand, "I never said I was
FR> leaving for good" like he did the last time he "left."
He'll get a Jones-Jeanneault enema if he does.
FR>> As I recall Martin Reily made some comment about shutting-up HolySmoke.
sq>> He backed off of his Fundamentalism after he bought a TV
sq>> and his "church friends" rejected him.
FR> Yes, I recall that he started making noises about not being a Christian
FR> any more.
He was at least taking the first step. I wonder if he still places any
value in his deity beliefs. Getting away from the robots was definitely
a step in the right direction, as even HE recognized them for what they
truly are.
FR> I wonder if any of us helped him escape or whether it was (as
FR> is often the case) fellow Christians which inadvertantly helped him.
Probably the latter, although I sent him some e-mail about it. I think
John M. did too.
FR> I never knew anything about this television thing. Was he told that
he
FR> couldn't have a television? Does his entire cult fraction dictate that?
As I recall, he belongs to some group that says that TV is a no-no. It's
"of this world," you know. It brings in -education,- and the cult masters
don't want ANY part of THAT.
FR> This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ.
FR> There are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that
are
FR> going to be transformed into rabid Christers. - John Prewett
Loving it!
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:26:22
EID:617e 222ba340
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f817
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415c
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR> Now I see that various death cultists have started boycotting Disney
FR> because they acknowledge homosexual marriages.
I heard that Disney is going to "update" the Pirates of the Caribbean ride
so as to get rid of the maidens being chased around. Fact or fiction?
FR> Now that IBM has started to acknowledge homosexual marriages, a guy
FR> in a humanist newsletter I get wondered if they're going to throw
FR> away all their computers and software and start boycotting IBM.
It's much deeper than that. How many companies depend on mainframes running
SNA, and how many of them are involved with things critical to the Fundy's
life? Restaurants, credit cards, auto makers, phone companies, the list
goes on forever.
FR> I wonder if any of them realize that boycotts work both ways. Christianic
FR> zealots which include a fish symbol probably don't even consider the
FR> possibility that non-Christians give their shops a miss.
My wife and I have had this discussion. I won't go THAT far, but I -do-
wonder why these clowns feel that putting that stupid fish on their sign
makes them any more qualified than the next guy. THAT concerns me.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:29:00
EID:f40c 222ba3a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f863
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415d
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> Funny how this student was expelled by people who wear
sq>> -brown- lipstick. Remember, you're dealing with the Tipper
sq>> Gore types who claimed that - tennis shoes- were a possible
sq>> symbol of your child's involvement with the occult. "Uh,
sq>> yes, well, Nike WAS a Greek goddess, but these Nikes
sq>> are just -shoes.-"
FR> I didn't hear anything about how black lipstick could be a symbol for
FR> "Satanism," though.
ANYTHING that goes against the establishment is going to be considered to
be "Satanic" by someone. Check out Tipper Gore's "Raising PG Kids in an
X-Rated Society." She's so far out in left field that she's gone over the
Green Monster at Fenway Park in Boston.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: The steve winter faq
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:30:10
EID:79d5 222ba3c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f8b6
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d415e
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> And inevitably, you know he'll come right back to Fidonet...
FR> It's too bad we disbanded the IFNA -- it could have tossed him out and
FR> then sued him to recover legal fees.
That's what Winter WANTS: Legal confrontation. He wanted to sue Fidonet,
but as P4 clearly defines the ZC and the IC as people who coordinate mail,
Winter would have looked liked a BIGGER horse's ass by trying to drag Bob
Satti into court and claiming that he was the head of the organization.
He'd have to sue ALL of us.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Still waiting, John
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:31:36
EID:825f 222ba3e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f8c9
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4160
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad John Prewett:
FR> This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ.
FR> There are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that
are
FR> going to be transformed into rabid Christers. - John Prewett
FR> Have a date on this, John?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:32:10
EID:ef34 222ba400
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d7f909
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4168
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad All:
FR> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and inserting
FR> them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke convention's hotels? I
saw
FR> the suggestion in a "Cracked" magazine.
Shoot, that's amateurish. How about getting a stack of Hustler magazines
and putting their contents into the books in the pews of an organization
that has done wrong to you?
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 11 Jan 97 16:40:42
EID:7997 222b8500
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 9c54e632
On (11 Jan 97) J.J. Hitt babbled to Marilyn Burge...
JH> JH>> I fully understand what you were trying to say, but none
JH> JH>> the less the final effect came out as something like a
JH> JH>> cross in between Jesse Jones and Mighty Mouse.
MB> One must put it in context.
JH> I was aware of the original context, even without your play-by-play.
JH> It's still a hilarious quote.
Whatever floats your boat.
I slightly misquoted it, but the words are attributed to
Edmund Burke (1729-1797). I'm sure his complete words
would keep you in stitches for days.
... Raising pet electric eels is gaining a lot of current popularity.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Stuart Lumgair
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 10 Jan 97 15:23:12
EID:88ee 222a7ae0
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 2d6c3832
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d435f6
Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to John Brawley:
RH> No, John, it IS a number. All the digits from 0 to 9 are numbers.
JB> I think that's just "procedurally" or "in terms of standard math"
DC> John, the concept is there. You could be doing the math in
DC> base 2 or in hex, the concept of numbers requires a zero to
DC> make any and all of them to work.
As I recall from my math courses, a long time ago, zero
is not included in one of the number sets. I don't even
recall all the number sets. Real, whole, integer, etc..
From a certain viewpoint, saying that zero is a number
equates with saying that atheism is a belief. Zero is a
lack of any numbers.
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Domino
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:23:10
EID:cbf3 222b5ae0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c7932e0b
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2d6ca8f0
On (10 Jan 97) Domino wrote to Jim Staal...
D > Jim, having seen Dan during his little streak, remarked:
JS> What evidence do you have to make such an accusation?
D > What evidence do you have to say that Jesus was male and the Bible is
D > an accurate reference for anything besides the beleifs and practices
D > of Christianity?
(2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
... Brought to you by the Sponsors of the Olympic Drowning Team.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:24:25
EID:ca3c 222b5b00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 cb422c84
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d63827
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> old I don't remember who), but of course I don't agree with the
JS> sentiment, silly.
GT> You liar. You know very well, because I posted it twice, that "the
GT> doctor" in question was YOU posting as Dr. James N. Staal. Still a
GT> liar for JAYSUS, I see.
I know nothing of this 'jaysus' you speak of, and of course I don't
agree with the sentiment, silly...
... You can find out a lot about paranoids just by following them around.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:25:14
EID:6443 222b5b20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f4c4bf91
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d639bb
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
GT> Heilsa, Jim!
GT> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GT> heard Jim say to DAVID:
DR>> ... Good news: it's "KILL JIM STAAL FOR JESUS" Week here at HolySmoke!
JS> Oh, no-o-o-o-o-o! Not again!
GT> Let's just make it more non-denominational and include Isis, Kali,
GT> Herne, and Gwenny. Hey, I am a goddess.
Or you are, are you? All that in addition to being a male bashing man
hater?
... Beat me, whip me, make me read mail without Blue Wave v2.21!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: what a waste
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:25:55
EID:b8fb 222b5b20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 54ccd57f
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d63acb
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
RC>> So how do you define a successful marriage to exclude Gwenny's?
JS> Beats me.
GT> But obviously not enough. Back to the dungeon with you, young man.
Ah, such sweet pain.
... But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only. - James 1:22
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: execute her ? [1]
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:26:31
EID:e0ec 222b5b40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c573c3d5
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d63ba2
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
Gt>> As I have told you on several occassions, the ONE TRUE (tm) KJV/NIV
Gt>> Parallel Bible.
JS> We agree on something.
GT> But you said we didn't agree on anything. And where's your answers
to
GT> the rest of that post?
WE didn't before. And I have no answers to the rest of that post.
... Bo Knows Blue Wave!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:27:17
EID:f953 222b5b60
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 75992b7c
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d63c71
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Ok, I remeber this post. I was responding to 'wild's' alleged comments
JS> that he knew no divorced pagans or some such. It therefore stood to
JS> reason to comment that then _he_ must be the dude that did the nasty
JS> stuff (although I knew he was not). Get the picture now? It also
JS> interesting that gwenny is now denying that she was Mormon at the time.
JS> (confusing, ain't it?)
GT> I wasn't pagan when I got divorced. That is what he meant. My
GT> divorce fall into Christian stats.
Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.
GT> You then claimed, as Sue showed,
GT> that you didn't know I had been married before. Whereupon, I posted
GT> messages where you talked about my first husband.
No, Wild said you were not married before. (that he knew of no pagan
divorced people) I knew you were married before.
GT> You're debunk, yet again, oh applauder of women abusers.
Nah. And where do you get 'applauder of women abusers' from 'applauder
of alleged Gwenny abusers'?
... Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. (1 The 5:21)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:29:47
EID:cc91 222b5ba0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 de81e982
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d63d3c
On (10 Jan 97) Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Jim Staal...
GT> Heilsa, Jim!
GT> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GT> heard Jim say to Gwenny:
DW>> Ya'll are just nice, big, pathetic but still worthwhile targets now.
DW>> Enjoy.
Gt>> Okay. And you have been relegated to the list that includes other
Gt>> rude people like Jim Staal and Nate Cookson. Enjoy.
JS> When was _I_ ever rude?
GT> Do you really want everyone to start reposting all your old fiascos??
I know of no 'old fiascos' and also, whatever turns your/their cranks.
... Blue Wave! Not just for FIDONet anymore!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:30:53
EID:7dfb 222b5bc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 9fb84ce0
REPLY: 1:207/212 3048396d
On (10 Jan 97) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (01 Jan 97) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> Why did God hate me so much that he gave us a savior only you men
KD> could relate to?
JS> You couldn't relate to yourj father because he was a man? You can't
JS> relate to your brother because he is a man? You can't relate to your
JS> husband because he is a man? Jesus Christ is all things to everybody.
KD> No, I cannot completely relate to any of those individuals due to the
KD> gender differences. Yes, we can have areas where we connect, but it
is
KD> never complete.
Where in your original statement do you mention 'completely' relate? No
one can completely relate to God. Sin stands in the way.
KD> The model for our creator should not exclude half of the human beings
KD> on earth.
He doesn't.
... People who want to get rich fall into temptation..-1 Tim 6:9
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:32:06
EID:4e3d 222b5c00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 16b6db0f
REPLY: 1:207/212 702dd13c
On (10 Jan 97) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (01 Jan 97) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> Then he doesn't qualify under the prophesies, then does he? If he
KD> isn't the son of Joseph he isn't of the house of David.
JS> Ah...check Mary's lineage once.
KD> Which is irrelevant in Judaism.
Perhaps not, but very relevant in God's plan.
... The prudish amputee: Goody One Shoe.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:32:37
EID:57cc 222b5c00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 539e4235
REPLY: 1:207/212 32b7b5e0
On (10 Jan 97) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (01 Jan 97) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> Promisekeepers is an organization intended to destroy my rights. As
KD> such I will oppose it until it is shown to be what it is.
JS> could you please provide some evidence to back up this obvious false
JS> claim?
KD> They support everything I am opposed to.
Peruse the seven promises of the PK and tell me which ones you are
opposed to.
... I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all. (1 Cor 14:18)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: [2/2] lon mabon ebon
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:33:01
EID:0e65 2226ac20
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a3fd
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Speaking of which: there doesn't seem to be any FIDO
CJ>> messages that have arrived in the past 24 hours or so. Having
CJ>> HOLYSMOKE suddenly become just you and me induces a Twilight Zone
CJ>> feeling.
DM> We don't seem to have Cookson to kick around.
Oh, he'll be back whenever FIDO returns to this board.
(Just hope we don't lose mail.) I give him about two weeks before
he leaves or combusts, though.
CJ>> If it keeps up, shall we take turns at moderating each
CJ>> other? We could issue invitations to come back to the two local
CJ>> fundies with access to our board: Sandy "Wine is a type of blood"
CJ>> Hooper and John "Asian countries are in Africa" Harris.
DM> What about that "I am a professional writer" guy--Davis? Clayton
DM> Davis! He's local, isn't he?
Of course! I hope you haven't sent out the
invitations to the other two; both are just too prolix. But
Clayton . . . yes. A true loon of the first water. 'Twas a pity
he left HOLYSMOKE so soon.
DM> Looking at the smug, self-satisfied look on the Jewish fundy who
DM> opened fire in Hebron today to stop the peace process, I am reminded
DM> of how very important a HolySmoke is in a world of religious nuts.
Although Judaism specifically forbids ramming the ramming
of that religion down your throat (unless you live in Israel, that
is), it has its quota of fundies. In particular, I'm reminded of
the recent guy who contended that _halakh_ forbade the rescue of
gentile children on a Sabbath. Happily, he did not have one
supporter, and the rest jumped on him so hard that he left the
echo after having been on it for at least two years.
... Fortunately, the way to heaven is a spiral.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1456
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: 12 days of abduction
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:02
EID:dd64 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a474
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 31 Dec 96 02:48pm, CARL POLLOCK wrote to RIC CARTER:
CP> If you didn't notice, this is a RELIGIOUS DEBATE echo. Why on earth
CP> would a message like the twelve days of abduction go here?
Some folk believe the saucer-critters are actually demons.
Also, as far back as the early '60s sociologists were
writing about the parallels between UFO "contacts" and religious
visions.
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1457
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:03
EID:a325 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a4eb
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 10:58pm, ROBERT CURRY wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
CJ>>> Tidal lock doesn't happen overnight; life could conceivably
CJ>>> adapt.
AS>>> I don't think adaption will work.
RC>> How would you know?
AS>> Because one side would be so cold as to have liquid helium,
RC> BEFORE tidal lock occurs? Well, no wonder Curtis soon became
RC> fed up trying to talk sense with you on these matters, as
RC> you don't bother reading his statements with actual comprehension.
RC>
RC> So do you know that adaptation could not occur, Al?
Because, according to his reply, life on Earth is only one
billion years old?
Tidal friction can also be a source of considerable
internal heat (example: Io).
I might note that Mercury in our own system shows a
situation in which a third body can prevent such a
one-face-forever-to-the-sun from occurring.
Now that Jovian-size planets have been found to occur
rather close to the parent star, there is also the plausible
situation of life on a largish satellite of that planet. Tidal
effects from the parent star could hardly prevent it from
continuing in its orbit.
... The capital of Arcadia was Megalopolis.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
o
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: mary's pelvic exam
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:04
EID:4c98 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a562
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
BS>> Propaganda was delivered from the mouth.
BS>> So saith Mickey Mouse, my god.
CJ>> You may have hold one of the more interesting theologies:
CJ>> care to elaborate?
BS>
BS> Hmm, elaborate on what exactly? Tell me, and I shall.
I was wondering if there is a place in the Magic Kingdom
waiting for us, and if our Uncle who art in cyrogenic storage had
overpowered our Lady Annette so that an innocent teen, she yet
gave birth to Mickey Mouse.
And as a tie-in to another thread, does Mickey Mouse have
gypsy blood in him?
CJ>> Tinkerbelle an angel?
BS>
BS> Mmmm, perhaps, how-about Jezzebelle?
It's said that there were those who'd like to jizz in that
belle . . .
Actually, Jezebel's a much more attractive figure than her
prophet-anointed butcher. Turns out that the only image we have
of an Israelite king is one of him crawling on his belly to the
Assyrians in submission--an archeological detail that somehow
didn't make it into the OT.
CJ>> ... Conan was a hacker.
BS>
BS> Think Nate got it right a short while back, and hands down, Conan was
BS> bested by far by the king of hackers. (forgot his name, but he hacked
BS> to pieces his victims...)
Crom!
CJ>> * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1454
BS>
BS> Day 1454!! Man alive, get that sucker registered! Shame on you!
Be patient. According to the software, I've been
evaluating it less and less with each passing day!
... Nightmare: Cats with opposable thumbs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [1/2] oh wells
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:05
EID:805e 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a5d9
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JB>> Al is beginning to rate a whole new category of logical fallacy:
JB>> Argumentum ad Fictionus. Whenever he can't bring himself to look up
JB>> facts, he resorts to fiction (usually science fiction). And the rest
JB>> of us are supposed to accept these arguments without barfing all over
JB>> our keyboards.
LB> By golly, I think Judith's got something there!
My delay in replying to you let me see his reply first.
Al is saying that he introduce argument from science fiction
first, when he clearly did with _War of the Worlds_, whose very
title he chose to ignore. And then he claims that he was the one
that stuck to facts!
CJ>> AAMOF, in space opera, armed conflict with gleeps is almost
CJ>> universally called war. That he surely knows this only adds to the
CJ>> bizarreness. Two titles immediately spring to mind: Haldeman's
CJ>> _The Forever War_ (recommended, BTW) and D. Gerrold's _War with
CJ>> the Chthorr_.
LB> Yup. As well as Star Wars, where different species not only fought
LB> against each other, but as allies. Ditto the Star Trek universe. Ditto
LB> B5.
So when we point out that the genre he uses to contend
there can't be war between us and another species seems to contend
something different, he accuses us of not sticking to facts? I
don't know whether to ROTFL or .
LB> Dunno...if they are allies, does he have a different take on it, or
LB> would he see that in the same sense the calvary would be "allied" with
LB> their horses?
War horses and war dogs were bred to _enjoy_ battle.
As to Al's take on this? Who knows. He quoted it out in
his reply to you.
CJ>> And he takes the passing comment of _one_ character in a
CJ>> novel whose title contradicts his proposition to outweigh all of
CJ>> the usage in all of sf since?!!?
LB> Well, he had an argument to justify. Any port in a storm...
Which, as it turns out, means quoting out what I said so he
could babble about "insinuation."
CJ>> And he showed every sign of willing to babble on endlessly
CJ>> about his Al definition that armed conflict with gleeps can't be
CJ>> war because--because Al says so.
LB> Because Al never just quits an argument. Something has been occuring
All too damn true. In a boast/taunt to another participant
in the past few days, it would seem that he gave away that one of
his favorite tactics is to "outlast" people.
This should be one clue as to why fewer and fewer people
want to talk to him. But then sometimes with Al it's hard to
figure out when he's whining and when he's boasting. This
probably relates to his strong interest in martyrs.
LB> bone, and not being able to quit. Sometimes, that is the way I see
LB> what happens with Al...he has a thought, makes a passing comment on
it,
LB> and when someone points out a flaw in it, instead of simply rethinking
LB> and moving on, he starts digging in his heels and arguing from that
LB> position, well past the point of reason, well past the point where HE
LB> would have agreed, had it not been HIS statement he was defending. And
LB> doesn't give up until there is some new stimulus to capture his
LB> attention.
LB> Pay attention if you can stomach it...watch him make a comment, use
a
LB> metaphor,
LB> and then insert that metaphor into 20 different posts, regardless of
the
LB> topic,
LB> and regardless of whether its pertinant to the specific discussion.
By
LB> the time he's finished peppering everything with that idea, the idea
LB> itself has become rooted into his own thinking, and he can't see how
we
LB> all CAN'T see it the same way, since everything HE sees is coated with
LB> it.
LB> More than the length of his posts, or the number of them, for me THIS
LB> is what makes discussion with him so difficult....because what he's
got
LB> sprinkled over everything becomes a barrier to have to work past, avoid
LB> getting sidetracked by it. After awhile, the effort becomes to
LB> much...its just no longer worth it to see past the clutter to what he's
LB> really thinking.
Perhaps. It's also hard to distinguish between that and him
setting himself up as _the_ authority on something; and then when
it's pointed out that he's factually wrong, he follows through the
usual Schroderization that is merely the fundy shuffle on a higher
plane.
LB> Sad part is, I'd like to know what Al really thinks on some things,
and
LB> have asked him, point blank, to tell me without referencing 20 dead
LB> scholars. He can't, or won't. And will not understand that my wanting
LB> to know HIS thoughts without all those filters is a compliment rather
LB> than insult....I am interest in what AL thinks.
I do get a sense that he has intellectual powers but that
his personality is limiting them.
CJ>> I do notice that he did apologize for gif gaffe. But he
CJ>> made that gif gaffe, as can be seen in his apology to you, while
CJ>> going into full hurt-puppy mode over your reference to him using
CJ>> "harpies." In his haste to go into full hurt-puppy mode, he
CJ>> failed to notice the smiley attached to the end of the statement!
LB> :) Curtis, it wasn't even Judith's comment, it was mine. Judith was
LB> simply collateral damage (of course, as a fellow harpy, she and I ARE
LB> in league with one another) And it was very carefully worded: noted
LB> that the word had come up, but that it doesn't mean anything. And
LB> included a smiley. Now, yes, it was intended as bait....in IRC
LB> conversations lately, Al has been regarding even my neutral comments
as
LB> personal insults, as stirrings of a fight, even when there was none
LB> there. So I made a PURPOSELY neutral statement, to see if he'd re-edit
LB> what I said through his filter and turn it into something else.
LB> And he did....his reinterpretation, which he's busy commenting on
LB> everywhere, is that it somehow suggested that I thought he shouldn't
LB> have used the word.
I'm rather sorry that your message to me should have been
the occasion of another Al blather. However, it is apparent to me
that the particular blather to you largely confirms everything you
said.
That response of his confirms my determination to _never_
engage him on a personal level. The level of ideas is bad enough.
And note that when I lost patience with him was precisely when he
started to make patronizing assumptions about me.
... Montanan: "Well, at least our cows are sane."
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: [2/2] oh wells
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:06
EID:435b 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a650
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>>>> Part 2 of 2...
LB> (It doesn't say that, does it?) Or that I'm not 'allowing' him to be
LB> humorous.
Al's response proved exactly your point.
LB> That's the filter I'm dealing with with Al....he sprinkles every
LB> conversation we have with the idea that I'm ready to attack him. It
LB> makes it near impossible to discuss anything with him at all. And
it
LB> would quickly grow very unpleasant if I were to try. I think I'm
Again, his response to your message to me exemplified
exactly what you were saying.
LB> grateful for YOUR Al OD coming when it did - - it reminded me of where
LB> I don't want to go. Since I'm not inclined to leave the echo again
to
LB> avoid it, I'm going to take other steps to keep it from happening
LB> again. Too much effort for too little return.
It takes a few cycles for the Al Effect to kick in--but
kick in, it will.
CJ>> Meanwhile, he constitutionally *cannot* let the Curry
CJ>> e-mail thing die (has Al ever let a thread die a natural death?)
LB> Nope.
At the very least, he's suffering from Last Word syndrome.
And he is doing his damndest to to keep the Curry e-mail thing
alive, so that he milk every last imagined grievance out of it.
CJ>> and Rod Swift has just revived his Rice Brothers fiasco.
LB> hehe...which will only get him all righteously offended at Kat, Judith
LB> and I again. Sprinkle sprinkle sprinkle..
Yep. I know there's a psychological type called an
"injustice collector," that I'll have to read up on.
... Leave the binary thinking to your CPU.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: whose mantra?
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:07
EID:7309 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a6c7
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
LW>> If people wish to hold to one of those beliefs, I have no problem with
LW>> that. The problem comes when someone claims that s/he can _demonstrate_
LW>> that one of them is true or one of them is false.
CJ>> If you can demonstrate that consciousness also can be
CJ>> predicted in precise mathematical detail, you might have an
CJ>> argument worth listening to. If you can't, I don't think it is
CJ>> worth listening to.
LW> Are you really arguing that only things that can be predicted in precise
LW> mathematical detail are worth paying attention to?
LW> I hope you're not married...
>
As someone who's actually sold some poetry, of course not.
However, it looks like what you are an advocate for (you're
conveniently ambiguous as to whether you believe it or not) is
that the behavior of matter is a result of "consciousness."
It's obvious that mathematical laws apply to matter-energy.
It is very far from obvious that they apply to consciousness in
any great detail.
LW> But seriously, Heisenberg has long since put to rest the idea that even
LW> physical events can always be predicted in precise mathematical detail.
LW> The old, mechanistic view of the universe is, if not dead, terminally
LW> ill.
Quantum mechanical statistics converge to give the
"mechanistic" view for macroscopic events.
The interesting thing about quantum mechanics is that the
statistical predictions are eminently mathematical; the
controversy is on what the mathematics mean.
Get hold of a text on quantum mechanics for physicists who
have to use it: it will be fiercely mathematical.
... Can I help you?--Alex Gt. You're blocking the sun. Move.--Diog.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: superstion
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:35:08
EID:a4b5 2226ac60
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a73e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 30 Dec 96 05:45pm, ROGER HUNTER wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
CJ>> You'd probably also enjoy his much more recent _The Jesus
CJ>> Party_, which explores the probable participation of the Jerusalem
RH> Yes, I have that one too.
CJ>> Church in anti-Roman activities and the 66-70 AD rebellion.
CJ>> He also wrote an earlier study of Paul, in which he argued
CJ>> that Paul probably thought of himself as a messiah.
RH> Was that "Those Incredible Christians"? I've read it, but lost
RH> my copy somewhere.
I haven't read that one by him yet. I think it deals with
the immediately post-rebellion Church?
The title where he dealt specifically with Paul is, IIRC,
"Jew of Tarsus."
Schoenfeld has always been interesting for his well-argued
takes; although they have not usually been incorporated by
mainstream scholarship, he does call attention to items mainstream
scholarship tends to forget/ignore. His secular Jewish
perspective probably helps.
Another book by him that I'd enjoy reading is "According to
the Hebrews," about Jewish takes of Jesus.
... EDLINE 8.7: For people who take life one line at a time.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: christ-like
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:09
EID:3d0c 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a7b5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 31 Dec 96 03:36pm, CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK wrote to DAVID RICE:
DR>>>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
CH> ^^^^^^^^^^^
DR>> Abbot, Henry: hanged, drawn and quartered at York, England, on 4 July,
CH> 1597
DR>> Abel, Thomas: hanged, drawn and quartered at Smithfield, England, on
30
CH> Jul
CH> David - Trivia info: Shortest verse in the Bible is... "Jesus wept."
CH> I am sure he wept over all the suffering you brought to my attention.
CH> Is it "Christ-like" to weep over suffering. It is not Christ-like to
CH> kill.
CH> All your examples are Man's cruel acts towards Man.
CH> Jesus (Christ) gives us no such examples of Himself acting in such
CH> manner.
CH> The only thing Christ-like about such torture, is that Man did the same
CH> thing to Jesus.
According to your Gospels, he did much threatening of death
and torture to those who did not believe in him.
... Pot nut. You're trusts, djinn; spill chukkas!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1457
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: spam me big boy!
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:10
EID:9c4d 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a82c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 31 Dec 96 03:02pm, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ:
LB>> KW> Why should you dread it? A woman gets called a
LB>> KW> 'feminazi' when she had the strength and character to stand up
for
LB>> KW> herself against little slimy limpdicks like Ken. I would think
that
LB>>(G) Like standing up to the likes of Weins is any great task...
KW> That is what is unforgivable, in their eyes. You notice that Ken seems
KW> to have taken out of here with his weeny tail between his legs.
KW> What ever did happen to that bear? Or did the Bear run off
KW> with Ken?
He's still ranting in R-RELIGION (and I'm still unable to
post there). Among his latest hobby-horses are about AIDS being
God's punishment on homosexuals (yawn; he's getting predictably
torn apart there, albeit in a more polite fashion than here) and
his contention that such movies as _Silence of the Lambs_, the
Star Wars and Star Trek series, and _Jesus Christ Superstar_ are
attacks on Christianity.
... And they call this tele_communications_?
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1457
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: post yule be sorry!
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:11
EID:495a 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a8a3
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CG> Also got good news, in that my hospital appointment is for the first
CG> week in January, so the nerve (trigeminal) in the side of my head will
CG> be sorted out.
CG> My sense of humour should be back shortly thereafter.
I've run across enough medical miscellania to know that
you don't need my wish for this year to be a happier one, then!
... OS/2:. . .And the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1457
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: brett johnson; jealou
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:12
EID:56c7 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a91a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 1 Jan 97 03:05pm, BRETT JOHNSON wrote to FREDRIC RICE:
BJ>> If God were not jealous, it would show
BJ>> a lack of affection, not the contrary.
FR>>
GT>> Love and jealousy are _NOT_ complementary, but mutually exclusive.
FR>>
mb>> Only an
BJ> emotional illiterate would think otherwise.
FR>> There's something fundamentally sick with that belief; or perhaps it's
FR>> humanity's primate ancestery he's laboring under.
BJ> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of exclusivity.
BJ> This is the nature of man's relationship to God. This is the ultimate
BJ> meaning of the verse "you shall not have other gods besides me."
You have shown yourself most unknowledgeable--or
bigoted--toward other peoples, beliefs, and cultures. Your
definition of "the sacred" does not apply to them. Please,
immediately, purchase any textbook on comparative religion
used by a secular university.
BJ> The same situation exists for other sacred relationships in this
BJ> life...the most akin to the "God-Man" relationship being that between
BJ> the husband and wife.
Sick.
... Modeming? It's all in the wrist.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1457
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:13
EID:7063 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615a991
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> I would have left them lying there. I already have a BoM,
CJ>> but have found it completely unreadable. My I should try that
CJ>> drinking game someone else suggested.
GT> Hmmm, I missed that.
It involved taking turns reading the BoM, and then downing
a swallow each time a certain recurrent phrase occurred yet again.
GT>>> Constatine was a Mithras worshipper.
CJ>> Plausible, but just what he actually was still seems to be
CJ>> controversial. My take is that like a true politician, he put
CJ>> himself as a Mithraist to Mithrans, a Christian to Christians,
CJ>> etc.
GT> Unfortunately, he finally espoused the Christian religion,
GT> and the rest is ugly, bloody history.
One version I've heard (which I'm only mildly skeptical
about) is that the Mithraists refused to take him after he killed
off his relatives.
Nonetheless, even with the "official" version, it is
amusing that he put off being baptized until his deathbed (hard to
commit sins that accrue to you on your deathbed), and that even
then it was by an Arian (i.e., heretic).
... And they call this tele_communications_?
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:14
EID:8701 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615aa08
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>>> What is the size of a 12-week fetus? Answer her question,
CJ>>>> Gnat.
GT>>> Tried to slip out of answering, didn't he.
CJ>> And I bet he'll keep on trying to avoid it.
GT> Undoubtedly. He has answered many of my messages, but not that one.
And not yet. He still answered my medical data reply about
abortion/breast cancer. Gnat has every sign of being one of those
fundies who ignores hard questions instead of attempting, however
ineffectually, to answer them. Advisory to all: archive
correspondence with him to detail the gaps back to him.
GT>>> they put two cabbages in a room together, with electrodes on one of
GT>>> them, and a person went in and cut the other to pieces. The first
GT>>> cabbage went ballistic. . .well, for a cabbage. Later they paraded
GT>>> quite a few people through the room, and when the cabbage murder came
GT>>> in, the first cabbage recognized him.
CJ>> I have to say I'm skeptical that you read that in _Discover_. What
is
CJ>> true is that when the foliage of many plants is macerated, compounds
CJ>> are released into the air that cause nearby plants to react by
CJ>> increasing their production of pest-discouraging compounds. If
CJ>> cabbage is such a plant, then it may be plausible that the change-over
CJ>> in metabolic activity could be electrically detectable. As for the
CJ>> recognition, he/she may still have smelled of cabbage, setting off
the
CJ>> same effect.
GT> It's possible it was Omni. One of the little blurbs tucked in in
GT> unusual places. But I do know it wasn't on April 1.
GT> Discover is damned sneaky about that issue. My favourite was year they
GT> did the article on someone finding the Holy Grail on Christmas Eve and
GT> there being enough left over dried blood from the Last Supper to do
a
GT> DNA check on the first god/human hybrid.
With _Omni_, that they usually squeezed such snippets into a
column titled _Antimatter_ suggests that a cheek was being
tongued.
_Discover_ does have some pretty clever stuff for their
April Fool's issue. Apparently a lot of people were taken in
(including some posters to the F-SCIENCE echo) over the purported
discovery by a scientist (whose full name was French for April
Fool) of a mole-like carnivore that heated up its nose to burrow
through ice to feast on penguins.
... WARNING! Any use of any product will lead to heat death!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: latest martinez disas
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:15
EID:c6cf 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615aa7f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>> Or--perhaps he knows that he could not certify himself as
CJ>> HIV-free? And the entire farrago is an elaborate denial of
CJ>> a looming fate?
JH> That has been my guess since the very begining.
It does give hope that cyberspace will be hearing less from
him in the near future.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:36:16
EID:3670 2226ac80
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615aaf6
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
>>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
>>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
>>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
>>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
>>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
>>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
>>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
>>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
>>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
>>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
>>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
>>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>> CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>> CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
RV>> GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
RV>> GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
CJ>> GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
DC> GARNISHES, GARNISHES! TOP HIM!
GRIPPERS! GRIPPERS! SQUEEZE HIM!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: dark bible #4
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:18
EID:f207 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615abe4
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JB> placement involved. In my personal experience (say, a total of 200
or
JB> 250 hours of eye-on-dark-sky watching), the number of meteors I see
per
JB> hour is WAY below what you note below. Most nights, I'm lucky to see
JB> _one_.
Should we then conclude that there is a Quantum God, but
that it didn't want you to see meteors?
CJ>> From _A Concise Encyclopedia of Astronomy_, American
CJ>> Elsevier, 1969, "Meteor":
CJ>> "About 25 meteors an hour can be seen from a single
CJ>> observation point with the naked eye. One observer, who naturally
CJ>> cannot keep all parts of the sky under observation at the same
CJ>> time, usually sees about 8 meteors in the same period. The number
JB> This is nice an' all, but is not _true_ in my experience.
JB> That is, if I go by my own experience, which I find _always_ wiser than
JB> taking even an authoritative "word for it," this is not the case.
CJ>> IOW, you could typically expect to see a meteor every 7-8
CJ>> minutes anyway.
JB> It does not happen. Not even averaged over the hours I've watched,
JB> _including_ the extra numbers during meteor showers, 6 or 7 or 8 meteors
JB> an hour is just not what happens. Sorry.
For full excrucitating detail which boils down to my quoted
source, see Chap. 5, "Observational Data on Meteors," DWR
McKinley, McGraw-Hill Paperbacks, 1961 [long in the tooth, but I
doubt that meteors have changed since then], the amusingly (to me)
titled _Meteor Science and Engineering_. [The engineering refers
to radio detection.]
CJ>> And, as it turns, out, winter solstice is exactly the time
CJ>> of the Ursids--a show which adds a dozen more meteors/hour over
CJ>> the background rate.
JB> OK, let's discount the whole event. I would then have to do this
JB> probably a dozen times or more, avoiding maxima and timing for the
JB> median, to justify claiming a highly radical departure from statistical
JB> "ground" (zero standard deviations). But the important thing about
the
JB> Hypothesis (and the experience) is the timing and placement. One needs
JB> not only ask how many meteors are average, but also how many meteors
JB> should be expected from _demanding_them_at_a_specific_ time, say, within
JB> a five-minute window, and further, one would have to ask what the
JB> probability is for repeating this a few times.
Agreed. Which is why one should first check out what the
background (aka "sporadic") rate is first, then check dates of
meteor showers--in the case of your date, the Ursids.
JB> the data-set needed. It's going to take many more "honest
JB> investigators" than just me, to determine the quality and frequency
of
JB> this "providence"-forcing Hypothesis.
Yep. And wouldn't an honest investigator at least try to
see if there's a predicted shower for that date?
BTW, in 1999 there should be quite a show from (IIRC) the
Leonids, which tend to recur every 33 years. Unfortunately, it'll
probably play into the hand of the millenialists.
JB> However, I'll stand on my claim that this is an Hypothesis and an
JB> "event-testing" system that is NOT derived from religious history;
JB> rather, the Hypothesis (and hence the post on "tests for God") is
JB> derived from strictly hardware scientific experimentation in quantum
JB> phenomenology, and makes the above types of _predictions_. (That is,
JB> given a) the "God," b) the "God's" ability to detect human mentation
JB> (hence "make appointments"), c) the "God's" willingness to, say, divert
JB> meteors slightly, and d) the quantum facts of chaos-theory adjustability
JB> and quantum probabilistic meddlings, the statistics of such "coincidence
JB> testing" _should_ show a definite deviation from the expected
JB> probabilistic "norm." Eh?
Given the premises a), b), c), and d), offhand I see no
reason to argue your conclusion. There is, howver, 4 premises
which do not necessarily apply--and in fact, at least the first 3
are supposedly what were being proved (IOW, circular reasoning).
JB>> For example, the issue of smoking.... With a coincidence-violating
JB>> regularity that is astonishing, I go out to get cigarettes and am
JB>> interfered with on the way to the store about four times in five.
The
JB>> opposite is also true: if I try to _avoid_ stopping for cigarettes,
JB>> events in my area _aid_ my motion _past_ the store.
CJ>> Assmuming that all this stuff happening to you while
CJ>> walking tobacco road is as statistically meaningful as you state,
JB> I consider it so.
I note that you have not even bothered to state what these
"interferences" are. Presumably a red light would classify as an
intereference.
CJ>> other explanations would also be consistent with the above.
JB> Well, until a) MY Hypothesis gets known well enough, and b) there have
JB> been enough people testing it _consistent_with_ its predictions and
JB> conditions, this is all just pissin' in the wind. I merely report my
JB> _nonsubjective_ (not internal to the brain; events in the real outside
JB> world) experiences. It's up to others to investigate the ideation more
JB> fully; the violations of probability are _graphically_ obvious to ME.
JB> To eliminate the possibilities that a) I'm lying, or b) I'm crazy, or
c)
JB> I'm deluded enough to be biased in this direction, _others_ will have
to
JB> apply the tests as well, and add to the statistical database. _I_ can't
JB> be trusted to have "proved" anything with these examples....
For starters, you'll have to categorize what "interference"
consists of beforehand. Red light? Someone asking for spare
change? Etc.---but how the specify the etc. beforehand?
CJ>> For instance, it is apparent that you feel guilty about
CJ>> smoking. Perhaps the power operating to hinder your tobacco
CJ>> purchase is yours, but you are unconscious of it?
JB> I don't control, for example, the number of times the dang _traffic_
JB> keeps me from turning left toward the Quik Shop (where I always buy
JB> them) when I'm going TO BUY cigarettes, as compared to the number of
JB> times the traffic isn't so *&#%%$@ heavy when I'm NOT going to buy
JB> them.... And I do not have a regularity about my buying times; it's
JB> scrambled. Now, if you're suggesting that _I_ am clairvoyantly
JB> perceiving remote traffic patterns and choosing the worst times to go
to
JB> the Quik Shop... ...well, that strikes me as as loony as my Quantum
JB> Theology and "test for God" seems to strike other people... (*grin*)
You have not given a philosophical means to distinguish
between the two!
And just like you did not establish what meteor frequencies
are beforehand, you have not establish traffic frequencies
beforehand. There certainly is a psychological effect to rule out
beforehand--namely, increased impatience toward nicotine
gratification.
A smoker myself, I know how this can go.
CJ>> Nicotine withdrawal makes people edgy, interferes with
CJ>> their concentration, and makes them forgetful. Combine them with
CJ>> a bad conscience about smoking, and you're likely to be "out of
CJ>> synch" with events.
JB> Indeed. Now, how do you distinguish the two hypothesized effects from
JB> each other? (*grin*) Deliberate tests --"appointments with destiny"
JB> (little 'n')-- seem to be warranted. The power of unusual coincidence
JB> is great, upon the magic-minded human race, but HOW MUCH coincidence
is
JB> TOO MUCH coincidence? My test(s), I propose, can help answer that
JB> question, and, being founded both on the idea that the Universe is
JB> inherently "intelligent and self-aware," and on _hardware_science_,
can
JB> also perhaps provide "good reasons to believe" that it is so.
Your question do tend to match my questions.
However, as to trying to distinguish positive results from
the various possible explanations--that indeed is an interesting
philosophical question. Assume for the sake of argument that the
effects you want exist: how can we distinguish between the effect
of John Brawley's wishes on the universe from a posited Quantum
God?
... "Bother," said Pooh, and wrote a tagline.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:19
EID:9efa 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615ac5b
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
KD> Just an interesting aside since you mention Irish and culture in the
KD> same sentence.
KD> I'm reading a book called "How the Irish Saved Civiliation" - it
KD> outlines how Irish monks took it upon themselves to copy most extant
KD> literature just before the fall of Rome, preserving it through the dark
KD> ages.
No doubt it also detailed that the Irish monks then had
very severe differences with the rest of Christendom.
... "As ye snore, so shall ye sleep." --Dr. Who
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Goodbye! goodbye! night
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:20
EID:e77e 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615acd2
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 1 Jan 97 03:52pm, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
CJ>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
CJ>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
CJ>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
CJ>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
CJ>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
CJ>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
CJ>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
CJ>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
CJ>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
CJ>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
CJ>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
CJ>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
KW> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
Eh? _Milk_ him?
GALACTOSE! GALACTOSE! RUN HIM!
KW> ---
KW> * OLXWin 1.00a * Isis Astarte Diana Magdalene Hecate Kali Innana
KW> --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
KW> * Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: christian freewill
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:21
EID:d455 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615ad49
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
SH>>> You appeared to be saying that the Egyprians had done the same thing
at
SH>>> Alexandria.
CJ>> Your example is very far from being parallel.
SH>
CJ>>> A particular group of Egyptians, for religious reasons.
SH>
SH>> Which group?
CJ>> Christians.
SH> Which ones?
The ones that thought they should do what their bishop told
them--i.e., regular Christians for the time. Their bishop was
Theophilus; that he had an argument with Chrysostom does not
affect his orthodoxy for the time.
... See that clothes rack in the store? Now, _there_'s a tagline!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
H
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: why do you need to be
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:22
EID:6fa2 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615adc0
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
SH>> And that contains just about all I know about sponge-cats :-)
CJ>> Going dadaist on us, or have you eaten that kind of musrum?
SH> Musrum is a spirited male gypsy mouse (Mus (A.S.=mouse); rum (archaic,
SH> spirited, prob. from Romany rom= male gypsy).
Are you sure it's not a descripton of some off-brands of
rum?
SH> Musrum is a place in which to dream (Fr muser=to dream; A.S. rum= room
SH> or space.
Museums are dreams of the past.
SH> Hence the song:
SH> Musrum is a spirited male gypsy mouse
SH> Musrum is a place in which to dream
SH> Musrum built an attic underneath his house
SH> And when the sponge-cats touch him he begins to scream
SH> Obladi, oblada, life goes on
SH> La la how their life goes on.
Sorry. Not ready to obliterate my life to a gypsy mouse.
Obligate my life to Mickey Mouse--now that requires some
thought.
... Fossils show that your geneology has a geology.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1459
* Silver Xpress V4.00
a
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:37:23
EID:bf5a 2226aca0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 2615ae37
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 1 Jan 97 02:20am, AL SCHROEDER wrote to RONALD VASS:
AS> would.) Philosophy (of which science was an outgrowth) BEGAN with
AS> Socrates.
Take that, Heraclitus, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Thales,
Protagoras, Anaxagoras, Parmenides, Empedocles, and Anaximenes!
If it weren't for Al, we would have been fooled into thinking you
were philosophers!
... Space is nothing but elbow room.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1460
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: [2/2] lon mabon ebon
|Date: 09 Jan 97 07:40:12
EID:f40c 22293d00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32d63b84
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2615a3a8
Curtis Johnson said "[2/2] lon mabon ebon" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> What about that "I am a professional writer" guy--Davis? Clayton
DM> Davis! He's local, isn't he?
CJ> Of course! I hope you haven't sent out the
CJ> invitations to the other two; both are just too prolix. But
CJ> Clayton . . . yes. A true loon of the first water. 'Twas a pity
CJ> he left HOLYSMOKE so soon.
I remember his cruising through a couple of years back,
receiving the same treatment, and leaving in about six weeks. We can
perhaps expect his next perihelion in '98, if his past orbit is
anything to go by.
On the Ebonics stuff: neither of us knew how the tests were
conducted that showed black kids learned English better if taught
through Ebonics. According to Jacob Heilbrunn ("Speech Therapy" The
New Republic 1997:Jan 20:17-19), no evidence exists for the
assertion. Proponents of Ebonics point to higher grade averages, but
that is an automatic consequence of forbidding teachers from
flunking anyone for using nonstandard English. I have seen some
study at Stanford vaguely alluded to, and it turns out that
Stanford's linguistics department numbers no fewer than four
"Ebonologists" on its faculty: John Baugh, John R. Rickford, Peter
Sells, Tom Waslow. Perhaps net searches on those names might turn up
something.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Literally seaking
|Date: 03 Jan 97 11:12:04
EID:8115 22235980
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32ce0251
Nate Cookson said "LITERALLY SEAKING" to Sally Springett, adding:
NC> Depends on what you mean by "evidence" my closed minded
NC> friend. There are historians outside of the Christian Church
NC> the wrote about Jesus and His death... None of them stated "He
NC> was the Christ" but they do give credance that Jesus did
NC> actually exist.
SS> I'll bet you can't name one.
NC> Ok, I'll name a few for you....
NC> The Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus, who, was born around
NC> A.D. 37. Cormelius Tacitus (A.D. 112), a Roman Historian writing
NC> about the reign of Nero, refers to Jesus Christ and the existence
NC> of Christians in Rome (Annals XV,44).
NC> Seutonius (A.D. 120) In "Life of Claudius , 25.4, and Lives of
NC> the Caesars, 26.2, and Pliny the younger in his epistles ,
NC> X.96.
Of this crew, the only one who refers to Jesus in the way you
postulate above is Josephus, and the passage in which he does so is
generally accepted by Christian scholars as to be a later
interpolation (that is, not written by Josephus at all, but inserted
by some True Believer into a copy, which version became the
"preferred" one for preservation by the monasteries.
Tacitus makes no more reference to Jesus than in the form
"followers of one Jesus Chrestos . . . .", which could hardly be
called "writing about Jesus and his death."
You are, of course, welcome to demonstrate me wrong by posting
the actual quotes that do what you say right here. Should you prefer
to use the original Latin, I am sure Sean will favor us with a
translation.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: It's true! You're a schmuck!
|Date: 02 Jan 97 19:53:54
EID:3a8d 22229ea0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ce39b7
Marty Leipzig said "It's true! You're a schmuck!" to Nate Cookson, adding:
MG> YOu are a fucking moron.
NC> Tsk, Tsk... Some more of that "Higher Education" stuff showing
NC> through!
ML>
ML> I doesn't require an LLD to state the incredibly obvious.
ML>
ML> You are a fucking moron; and a prosaic one as well.
He ought to have known that his little secret was not safe with
you.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Pews for fews.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 19:55:32
EID:4e2a 22229ee0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ce39b8
Marty Leipzig said "Pews for fews." to Don Martin, adding:
DC>> No, they will be not real 'Jews for Jesusians'. Must have
DC>> to do with something about the 'J' at the beginning.
ML>
ML> They would have to be "Yews for Yehovah", but trees don't
ML> often tithe.
ML>
JH> But they make good Pews.
ML>
ML> With lots of splinters.
DM> No pews is good pews.
ML>
ML> I say let the stinkers sit on the floor.
Kneel! they are supposed to kneel! Preferably on a slab slate
floor as they have in the finest cathedrals in Europe.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Alfred E. Von Newman machines.
|Date: 02 Jan 97 20:05:05
EID:183f 2222a0a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ce39b9
Marty Leipzig said "Alfred E. Von Newman machines." to Richard Smith, adding:
CJ>> little over a week, let me answer. My Latin is nil, but it looks
CJ>> like:
CJ>> "What, me worry?"
DC> That was my guess, too! Then again, I'm MAD!
CJ> Styx! Somebody alfred my message!
RS> You have nothing to Gainnes by such cheap tactics . . .
ML>
ML> Isn't this thread just custom made for Don Martin?
Not me--I'm stepping out. Besides, I've other mags to preen
myself over--just to piss off the fundies, I got a letter into the
Biblical Archeological Review _again_, this time with a response
from the author of the article I was commenting on. When you spend
your days trying to makes sense of files that have been scanned from
bad xeroxes, this sort of thing brightens your nights.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 03 Jan 97 06:46:37
EID:d3ea 222335c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32ce4758
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32cd117c
Nate Cookson said "Bible" to Glen Todd, adding:
GT> Not in evidenc. And better for whom? Seens to me that the only
GT> ones who really benefited were the self-appointed
GT> patriarchy and their holy-owned (spelling
GT> intentional) politicos, who had themselves a great
GT> tool for fattening their own purses and keeping the
GT> slaves under control.
NC> "Benefited"!? You jest of course! Let's see the orginal founder
NC> died on a Cross without a dime to His name, all His followers
NC> were eventually killed, none every reaping any benefit.
Without a dime to his name? Well, no: there are no pockets on
diapers. And none of his followers reaped any benefits? Do you
really suppose that the only possible benefits are monetary?
What other benefits exist? Being treated as a Very Important
Person by large numbers of people is felt by many as a benefit:
certainly we see numerous examples of them trying to be so treated.
Being regarded by the State as a person important enough to
apprehend and execute has its own cachet: it is the adult version of
what little kids do all the time. When they cannot get enough "good"
attention, they will work for a spanking, and at that moment the
punishment is a benefit--it is what they want, the focused attention
of the parent. It is better than being ignored.
David Koresh died for your sins, so far as he was concerned.
Does that make him a Jesus? He had little or no money, and his
followers were killed with him. Since those followers had ample time
and numerous opportunities to leave, presumably they died willingly.
Hallelulah!
NC> One of the Greatest of His followers was a Ten maker
Well, it was easier using Roman numerals.
... The fool knoweth in his heart that pi doesn't equal 3.
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Starfire
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 11 Jan 97 18:47:46
EID:adc5 222b95e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 738cea7a
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d65045
On Jan 10 14:13 97, Starfire of 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org wrote:
JJH>> damnitalltohell....
S> Nobody needs to twit you, you're already a twit.
Ah... you must be the youngest one of the bunch.
You have, at least, shown far more reserve than
your compatriots.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: True David Worrell scum
|Date: 11 Jan 97 18:50:46
EID:210e 222b9640
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 738ceedc
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d653f8
Tiger Thighs sez:
TE>>> Your right mom, and really think that no one at all has
TE>>> the right to judge other people that they have not met
TE>>> personally.
Unless, of course, they are ignorant skinhead Nazi motherfuckers.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:03:56
EID:ec61 222b9860
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 738d2547
On Jan 04 17:35 97, Roger Hunter of 1:104/251 wrote:
RH> Why so? How many poisons kill instantly, particularly when
RH> swallowed?
None.
Even the cyanide family isn't as fast as the movies would
have us believe.
According to Final Exit, potasium cyanide _when_ _prepaired_
_correctly_ can produce unconsciousness in less than a
minute, but death may not follow for more than an hour.
When not properly prepaired, you can remain conscious and
in extreme pain for hours. (Jonestown showed ample evidence
of this.) The key factors being wether one has an empty
stomach and a high stomach acidity.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 10 Jan 97 10:42:59
EID:fff3 222a5540
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 0d33f04b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d434dd
On 08 Jan 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> Nope, John. The center point is not a block. It's a point in the
It is if I define it so. Refer to Leibnitz, please, and the insight
that gave him " dy/dt ." "Infinitesimals," sir.
DC> It doesn't matter, John, as both of us gave you the real
DC> centerpoint of that line.
"REAL" centerpoint? (*chuckle*) Dan, mathematics is not "real," it's
an abstraction.
JB> either there or not-there (but not sort of partly there), my blocks
JB> are quantum blocks. Nonstandard analysis is the subject in which
DC> That point is exactly where we told you it is. You could remove
DC> the blocks if you want. However, with a starting point of some
DC> type, the centerpoint is where it is.
Not, as we've seen, _necessarily_. We don't now grant 'standard
reality' to "infinitesimals" in math; there is no infinitely large
number, nor an infinitely small number (though those are not, as it
appears, equivalent examinations of infinity), but "standard" or
"accepted" does not equate to "real." If there's nothing but the
blocks, the centerpoint is either a block or the nondimensional
dividing-line _between_ blocks. This is thinking in "infinitesimals."
DC> Nope. That point is always exactly their, assuming you are not
DC> varying the size of the bricks. Move them left or right, the
DC> zero poing will move, but the absolute center point will be
DC> there, and nowhere else.
That assumption, that the size of the quantum-of-blockness block does
not vary (it is the smallest possible item), is exactly why the above
_is_ true. The "infinitesimal" is the smallest possible "number"
(equivalent to the point in geometry) that is not zero. Lose it, and
there is not left over a point, block, or infinitesimal called "zero";
there is _nothing_ left over.
JB> represented by one and only one point, "zero" is neither an
JB> infinitesimal nor a "number."
DC> Is 1+1= 2? Is 1+0= 1?
Does +1 change what it was added to? (yes) Does 0 change what it was
added to? (no) Does _any_ nonzero number change the number it is added
to? (yes) Does zero? (no)
....Categorically different items.
DC> Sorry, John, zero is not just a number, it is a number. Whether
DC> you like it or not, it's one of the most important numbers ever
DC> discovered or invented, as the case may be.
Oh, I don't doubt its importance. I just doubt its "number"-ness. ;)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Theology is probably a branch of Physics.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 10 Jan 97 10:57:19
EID:fff3 222a5720
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 5b33a1a6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d435f6
On 09 Jan 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
-> On 07 Jan 97 07:37:38, John Brawley got back to Roger Hunter
RH> No, John, it IS a number. All the digits from 0 to 9 are numbers.
JB> I think that's just "procedurally" or "in terms of standard math"
DC> John, the concept is there. You could be doing the math in base
DC> 2 or in hex, the concept of numbers requires a zero to make any
DC> and all of them to work.
It was invented more recently than "number" was.
We seem to have gotten along without it for a long time....
The concept of actual infinitesimals makes zero as the centerpoint of
the number line ludicrous. Each number can be thought of as a unit of
something. Doing that with zero makes it look like "a unit of nothing,"
which is ridiculous.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Who is this who darkens council with words without knowledge?" Job
38
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 10 Jan 97 11:00:41
EID:d66c 222a5800
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 40bd2340
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d43a4f
On 09 Jan 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> the TF doesn't exist?
JB> Not that I recall.
DC> So far, so good.
JB> Dan Ceppa, do you, or do you not, believe that the Tooth Fairy exists?
DC> That's my personal belief. I decline to answer it. (Steve, does
DC> that ring a Jesse for you?)
(Fundie exits argument to preserve belief-system.)
DC> believe anything that they want. Now, evidence to support that
JB> True, and I suspect that, you being a highly rational and evidence-
JB> liking individual, you do not have evidence acceptable to _you_, that
JB> the Tooth Fairy exists. Your answer to my above question, please?
DC> I did, in the inimitable fashion as shown me by the late, great,
DC> Jesse C. Jones.
You did not, as shown to me by the great Les Wilcox. (And Harold
Robbins, and half a dozen others I've asked my Bible/or/God conundrum
of). You did not answer the _question_, you _avoided_ answering the
question.
DC> Yes, John, there is a point to this. I do think you are already
DC> seeing it.
I see that, like a fundie under attack by reason, you would rather exit
(hence terminate) the argument than answer the question. Is that it?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Thinkers travel in cognito.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 10 Jan 97 11:04:48
EID:7191 222a5880
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a6b64468
On 07 Jan 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> QG does not influence the balls, He influences my choice.
JB> Roger, 1) that is a _subjective_ effect (in your head). One of the
JB> _main_ characteristics of this 'test' is that it is NOT supposed to
be
JB> subjective. Something happens in the _real_world_ that is _not_
JB> inside your head. There's no empiricism in what you want to ask for,
RH> Sure there is; winning against 1:6,000,000 odds. Of course, once
RH> might be just luck, so I'd need to do it twice .
(*chuckle*) My point is that there are two effects involved in human
mind/God mind contact: 1) You, reading _ITs_ mind, and 2) _IT_, reading
_your_ mind. Of the two, only the former is "subjective" from the POV
of a 'test' like mine. That is, it is not subjective from your point of
view, to posit that God reads your mind. (You do not depend on your
mind for any information; the information flow is going the other
direction.) You DO depend on your own mind (and not on external-
nonsubjective events) if you posit that God "inserts the numbers" into
your head.
JB> if you expect the MAIN effect (correct numbers) to be
JB> _inside_your_head_.
JB> And 2) just how is QG supposed to _know_ what the balls are going to
JB> do, before they do it, so's It can influence your subjective choices,
JB> against a human _deliberate_ effort to scramble them, in the future?
RH> I expect a God to be omniscient. You should call QG something else.
RH> An intelligence, no matter how large, that lacks Divine aspects
RH> is no God.
Depends. I define "God" as that which causes, or has caused, the images
of It (God) that have appeared in the various religions. If an
influence can have caused those, even without "omni-temporal"
omniscience, then that is by default "God." I also don't require the
God to violate what we know of physics, and predicting maximally and
intentionally randomized things in the future, with _perfect_ accuracy,
is forbidden by quantum mechanics.
JB> You're assuming the QG _knows_ what the balls-falling scrambler is
JB> going to outout later. That is not consistent with the hypothesis!
RH> Yes, I do. Any God worth his salt knows the future.
Then, as noted, you are _not_ proposing a test of MY Hypothesis; you are
proposing a test of something _you_ have come up with. The "test for
God" that I offer is a test of a certain hypothesis, which is derived
from scientific knowledge; it is not composed of just anybody's vague
ideas.... (Hence my original response to your proposed test, which you
issued in response to my posted "test for God," remains valid: you did
not adhere to the restrictions of the hypothesis itself.)
(*g*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If God is real, we will not find Him 'outside' of reality.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 10 Jan 97 11:15:40
EID:7191 222a59e0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a2452f68
On 07 Jan 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
JB> inside Its brain. It cannot directly manipulate gross matter in gross
JB> amounts, but WE can, and if the "health" of Its brain (the Universe)
JB> is dependent on that sort of internal-to-itself manipulations, then
JB> It'd _need_ motile physical objects capable of A) detecting it in some
JB> way, and B) taking instructions where instructions are pertinent.
RH> I'd say we are currently a malignant tumor or at least a destructive
RH> virus.
I have had that thought, and _concur_. (*g*)
JB> 'test will most likely fail NOT because QG "wants it to fail," but
JB> because you, like adherents to religions before now, want QG to do
JB> something It _can't_do_.
RH> Phooey. Who needs weakling "Gods" anyway?
Apparently, at least the antitheistic, atheistic, and agnostic portions
of society don't even need a _powerful_ God....
My idea is to test for a "God" that can be _real_ --that can be
consistent with scientific information already in hand. Basically, it
tests for the presence or existence of a God that can exist even in the
face of rigid scientific information --one which has been "pushed back"
so far that It winds up in the only 'place' left for It: the entire
Universe's quantum-nonlocal information systems.
JB> that you're pissin' in the wind even to give this idea more thought.
JB> (*grin*) Not consistent with the Hypothesis being tested.
RH> Very well. If QG cannot accurately know the future, if He's trapped
RH> in linear time, then my test is inappropriate.
Your test is inappropriate, but not because _IT_ (the God) is trapped in
linear time --because WE are. (Hence so is the communication system
being employed (brain effects).) Moreover, there is a big difference
between knowing the future and knowing the future: the nonlinear-time
God may well know ALL of the future --all that CAN happen-- but still be
unable to predict WHICH future will be THE future that appears in linear
time. Granted that "Free Will" exists in human beings, it is
_impossible_ to predict human future with perfect accuracy, and given
quantum "uncertainty," it is impossible to predict even _physical_
futures with perfect accuracy.
JB> back in the past, you are _living_in_ "some future development of Man"
JB> as seen from those long years ago.)
RH> All very well for those pivotal characters but it does nothing for
RH> me or any other average schmuck. QG is indifferent to such and may
RH> well be hostile to us.
That's possible, but my 'test' does not concern itself with any
motivation save the one that says "the QG is motivated to cooperate and
reveal Its probabilistic presence, provided the test for It is designed
properly."
JB> There's a certain resonance between what's "best for the Universe" and
JB> what's "best for Earth." I'd say we're not doing all that well, with
JB> our humanlike desires and ideas on what's "good," to manage the little
JB> planet we already have.... We _don't_ seem to be doing "what's best
JB> for the planet," and that means our _self_-destruction from ignorance,
JB> stupidity, and EGO; never even _mind_ the _Universe_ destroying us for
JB> Its own perhaps unfathomable reasons....
RH> I think that's MY point as well. We are, by and large, so stupid we
RH> SHOULD be eradicated.
(*Ouch*) I can't be quite that pessimistic.... Also, what you say
sounds a wee bit too much like God Flooding us all to oblivion (again?).
JB> If we fuck up the planet, it eradicates us. It's just a step to a
JB> broader perspective to say that if, in time, we fuck up the
JB> _Universe_, _it_ will eradicate us, and in that sense, that _is_ QG
JB> doing the eradicating. (*grin*)
RH> That's really stretching, John. And liable to get you moderated here
RH> too, BTW.
(Eh? I hope I'm still in Holy_Smoke !!)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Copenhagenists don't do it unless somebody's watching.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: John Brawley
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: DARK BIBLE #4
|Date: 10 Jan 97 11:30:37
EID:7191 222a5bc0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 453c4ed5
On 07 Jan 97, Roger Hunter wrote:
RH> John, one of the early psychologists (whose name is lost to me) made
RH> a study of such things. It seemed highly significant to him, but
RH> was not. It was only because he was paying attention to them.
JB> Carl Gustav Jung. "Synchronicity."
RH> No, I don't think so. Synchronicity is something else, a rare event
RH> at just the right time; a meaningful coincidence.
Jung's example was a large beetle slamming into the window at "just the
right time." If you hadn't noticed, my hypothetical 'test for God'
depends almost entirely on the same fundamental idea.
RH> Very much like your "test", come to think of it. You been cribbing
RH> ideas, John?
(*grin*) No, take that as evidence I have something that might be
deliberately tested, for which there is already a large collection of
"apocryphal evidence." It's perfectly consistent with the religious
idea of "providence," as well. (Have you read "The Celestine Prophecy?"
It's a decent _story_, if a little over the edge. It contains heavy
emphasis on the same idea: that God controls and/or influences events by
means of _coincidences_.)
RH> The guy I'm thinking of found hundreds of coincidences, things most
RH> of us wouldn't even notice.
If you think of who it was, I'd like to know his name....
JB> They're _still_ arguing what that stuff is, Roger.
JB> The component of "it was only because he was paying attention to them"
JB> is/was present. It was and is not sufficient to enable discounting
JB> the effect as completely meaningless.
RH> In your opinion, perhaps.
Well, I don't think _only_ in my opinion....
Unfortunately, the most irritating thing about my "God Hypothesis" and
about many of these earlier ideas on "meaningful coincidences," is that
it must be tested _statistically_. It'd take a large sampling, and some
pretty tight control, to establish the presence of a real anomalous
effect with it.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... A stopped clock is correct twice a day, but a military clock only once.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Mine's bigger, damn you!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:15:44
EID:9f80 222bb9e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d81f7c
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d416c
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR> That's what I would guess as well. The last time he "left" he was back
FR> shortly.
I wonder if there's a mathematical progression ("bell curve") to be had
as far as the first time someone leaves versus the second and succeeding
times. :)
sq>> Just continue the way things are. This
sq>> is what is known as a "snipe hunt." :)
"There were two Fundamentalists fucking each other on
the bus, and ..."
FR> Perhaps when his palms sweat and itch enough he'll jump in here,
FR> telling us all he never claimed he was leaving for good.
He'll get hit hard if he ever makes that claim. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Bill Wolff: silly guy!
|Date: 09 Jan 97 19:36:24
EID:b94d 22299c80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7372f9dd
DR> It was a trap. He was too stupid to fall for it though.
Wolff fwell for it with his eyes wide shut.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Devotional Spam
|Date: 09 Jan 97 19:43:13
EID:cdc6 22299d60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 737309f7
REPLY: 1:123/67 32d0ba61
SS> Someone is Spamming my E-Mail with this. Maybe we
SS> could return the favor?
Maybe he would like a short list of transitional specimens.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 09 Jan 97 19:45:05
EID:f1b4 22299da0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73730ea3
DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson very
DR>> ugly.
You die.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:03:36
EID:abc0 222b9860
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d140d
REPLY: 1:207/212 9f8f53a5
MG>> that is present early in pregancy that is not dealt with
MG>> adequatley after the abortion? I claim ignorance on this.
KD> So this isn't an abortion problem, it's a "pregnancy without
KD> breastfeeding" problem. That makes a lot of sense to me. And if
KD> we can find a medication a woman can take for a week
KD> afterwards, then the idiots can drop this line of argument.
Well, it might and it might not be an abortion problem. The fact that perhaps
woemn do not get to breast feed may be responsible. It may be that they
are given nothing to dry their breasts. It may be that it's a moort point
because they have to nurse anyway, whether the baby is born or not.
My point to this cretin is not just that there isn't a link...there actually
might be one, but that this sort of data must be looked at mroe critically
and that you cannot just go looking for stuff that fits your own personal
agenda. We are looking for the truth here.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:34:14
EID:78d7 222b9c40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d54fe
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d1b5eb
AS> I stand corrected. Which is ANOTHER reason I don't keep a gun in
AS> my house. I'm not too afraid of a member of my family, in a
AS> rage, shooting me. But accidental shootings? You betcha.
You should be scared of both equally.
You would be equally dead. I wonder why your god would let a two year old
accidentally find a gun left out by a careless owner and shoot the owner
or worse, a brother or sister.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:50:01
EID:c89a 222b9e40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d7cc5
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1eee6
GtP> Silly person. I didn't say sentient cabbages. I said that I
GtP> read about cabbages responding to outside stimuli. This is a
GtP> well established fact, that plants to respond. Maybe they've
I must interject that these high school type experiments lack the proper
controls to be believable. It may well be that plants respond to music
in some manner, but there are many more envronmental factors that must be
controlled for before the conclusions are drawn.
Besdiesw, I don't want to sing "La Donna Mobile'" to them. I wnat to eat
them.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:52:59
EID:c89a 222b9e80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d7ed2
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1ef39
GtP>>> Rumor has it that she and the Gates of Delirim are in
GtP>>> Denver.
DC>> OK, just what, is, who, are "the Gates of Delirim"?
GtP> Starwyn's BBS.
"Gates of Delirium"
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:54:12
EID:8b98 222b9ec0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d819d
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d1fd02
GtP> For years JJ has been trying to hide his gender.
GtP> You blew his cover.
Not much to hide. Leipzig's seen him.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:59:34
EID:056d 222b9f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738d8dfb
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32d2b019
SH> BULL TURNS TAIL AT ZULU SLAUGHTER RITUAL
And your point is?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:26:14
EID:3701 222ba340
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738dcfff
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d3127e
MB>> This "experiment" would be impossible to set up. Just
MB>> because the designated group is not praying for a certain
AS> You can't, and that's an excellent point. Except perhaps to
AS> think if you take a large enough group, both as a control
AS> group and the group being prayed for, that such things will
A large group is getting into the realm of your discussion with Curry about
the sample space. If you make your number of individuals large enough,
pretty soon you have the whole population.
But, as you point out, the variables here are impossible to control for.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:50:13
EID:a39e 222ba640
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e05a6
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c51d0717
MG>>Yeah. No bourbon but three a day of crow.
MG>>CAW....CAW........
KW> You're consigning him to the Church of All Worlds, just for
KW> drinking bourbon?
Not just for drinking bourbon, but for one too many raw, overly fatted cows.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:52:54
EID:c0aa 222ba680
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e0b0e
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d36402
GtP> Hmmm, I'm not familiar with that. Anything like grits?? (Wild
GtP> runs screaming into the night) (Can you believe he was raised in
GtP> Virginia and doesn't like grits. )
He must be a communist.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:54:47
EID:8789 222ba6c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e12a7
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32d41425
MG>> This is non sequitir of the first water. We are not
MG>> discussing why you need to live. We are discussing why you
MG>> need to be saved.
SH> Ah, I see. So are you one of the Gauleiters who what we are
SH> discussing and what we are not discussing? Not so? Perhaps it's a
SH> nin suquiter.
You could answer the question, yet you insist on showing us that you are
a moron. You certainly seem to amuse yourself.
Answer the fucking question. Why do we need to be saved?
After that, I will entertain any lil ole questions you may have about why
we ne3ed to live or need a liver.
But first you must answer the question.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:56:31
EID:81bb 222ba700
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e137d
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32d41426
SH>> Right, we'll lose the semantics...
SH>> How could you nurd me with your cordwangle so?
MG>> Dipshit
SH> Blikskottel
Why do we need to be saved?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:00:24
EID:633f 222ba800
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e1d45
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 7366c581
JH>>> While Sam Houston was born in Virginia (1793) I found the
JH>>> following passage in an on-line biography:
MG>> I was just trying to be a bigger asshole than Worrell.
JH> You must try harder.
I will. I just need to find better targets than helpless pagans.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Where are my glasses?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:02:22
EID:b876 222ba840
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e22c3
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040cf9e1
FR> My question is, why does this teacher still have a job?
ONe of my favorite explanation for how the world operates is "I've cut this
rope off twice and it's still too short."
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:04:06
EID:cecf 222ba880
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e2619
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4159
FR> There is a pretty good chance of that because they both
FR> participate on #holysmoke and the media allows for unsupervised
FR> discussions.
You mean "no chaperone". I thought all of those kinds of disucssions had
to do with sex.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:07:52
EID:7216 222ba8e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e2fda
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4168
FR> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and
FR> inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
FR> convention's hotels? I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
FR> magazine.
Or an ad for a web prayer site. The url will take them to our Holysmoke
Little Shop of Horrors. They will end up in hell for merely reading it.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:12:19
EID:326e 222ba980
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e38a7
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d417f
FR> Then in some countries one must stand in line for six hours to
FR> pick up the week's allotment of bread. And in other countries
FR> one must walk miles to hand pump water to a bucket then carry it
FR> back.
FR> I think it's interesting.
I think it's economics.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Scopes was convicted!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:17:40
EID:a61e 222baa20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e47dc
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d419b
mg>> LIke the Dr. in QB IV who won his lawsuit but was awarded two
mg>> cents for the damage to his reputation, I believe that the
mg>> fine was minimal even though Scopes was found guilty.
FR> Fact is that science wasn't found guilty, Scopes was -- and he
FR> was. It didn't detract one iota from the fact that evolution is
FR> a directly observed phenomena but Creationist lunatics would like
FR> to pretend that evolution was on trial and that it lost.
The fundy in question asked about Scopes. In his deluded mind, if Scopes
was convicted then all of Evolution was indicted. My answer was formulated
to convince him that he was an ignorant pile of pig shit.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:20:21
EID:dd00 222baa80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e4da7
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32D326F0
DW>>If you keep on telling my secrets, I'll let everyone know
DW>>about your trip to Jack Daniels distillery.
RV> So thats why he had the IV line in his arm, along with a hand
RV> pump.
Bourbons is only for those who cannot afford real liquor. Old Putrscene
is canned daily and can be had for pennies at most better drug stores.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:23:20
EID:44f9 222baae0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e53da
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d42806
DC> That one falls in that genre. IIRC, James Colburn plays the
DC> analyst. The movie came out about 1968 or so. As such, it may
DC> not be easy to find, but is well worth the watch if you can
DC> find it.
That's one of the few over the years that I enjoyed. The end of it is so
screamingly funny that words don't do it justice. And I wouldn't want to
spoil the ending for anyone.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: So Long
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:26:33
EID:88d4 222bab40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e5aa2
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d44253
MG>> Us southern boys know that if you mix the peanuts up in a
MG>> bottle of RC cola, it resembles bourbon.
DC> Us northern boys don't bother to try to drown the snacks in the
DC> good booze!
RC (pronounced R-uh C-uh) is not booze, any more than bourbon is.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: atheistic bombast
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:28:10
EID:013d 222bab80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e5ffa
REPLY: 1:229/622 32d44f29
NC>>> Exactly my point! Our "technology" hasn't been able to
NC>>> "prove" His existence yet.... but that doesn't "prove"
NC>>> He doesn't exist.
MG>> The eternal cry of the very lost is "It may be around the
MG>> next corner".
DH> Exactly like a crack addict. No matter how many times,
DH> "This time it will be different."
Close. Everyone suspected of OD at the ER "used" to be a dope addict.
They gave it up 30 minutes ago.
Deists never give it up. Not even for a minute.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:30:27
EID:a675 222babc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e6520
CP> This "old book" has survived for literly thousands of years. This
CP> "old book" has been the hope and insperation for BILLIONS of
CP> men, women and children accross the ages. How can this "old
CP> book" have such an impact on THOUSANDS of lives through
CP> THOUSANDS of years and still not be true?
Bandwagon arguements do not wash. Loads of people believed the Earth to
be flat once. This did not make it so. Jst because many are brainwashed,
does not make your god real.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:31:49
EID:a675 222babe0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 738e6690
DH@>> Nobody asked you to prove anything. Just tell us why God
DH@>> starves innocent people to death. Do you know?
CP> Because love somehow allows it.
Are you serious about this?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Darrow and Ethics
|Date: 10 Jan 97 19:21:00
EID:297e 222a9aa0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000d6a29
RM>Your continued willingness to violate basic principles of ethics is what
>has all the Christians in this forum running away from you. Have you
>noticed that even Andrew, who originally supported you, is now trying to
>distance himself from you? To his credit, he cannot abide your lack of
>ethics any more than I can.
Don't let that get to ya Laurie. I didn't back away from you in
Skeptical Inquiry and I won't do so in here either. Us blathering fundies
gotta stick together no matter what! :)
Regards,
David
---
QMPro 1.53 I think therefore, I ain't politically correct!
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 10 Jan 97 20:57:00
EID:90c0 222aa720
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000d6a2c
AS> Aren't we all sent here with the knowledge that we will die? Does that
> mean we should praise those who speed it up, like murderers?
AS>... The problem isn't ignorance but the illusion of knowledge.
Hello Al,
I am new to the Holy Smoke echo. I used to frequent the
Religious Sub on VirtualNet before I took a long hiatus from
posting altogether for diverse reasons. I then decided to start
posting again recently on the subject matter which I was recently
smitten by while doing a little reading/research. That subject is
evolution. As I got into these discussions in the Skeptical
Inquiry echo, I realized that I was not satisfied with just one
subject at all. What's more I was starving my philosophical side.
So, I decided to try Holy Smoke. The colloquial ambience is
the same as many areas of this type that I have been in for the
most part. However, I see a few that have distinguished themselves
as being both active and productive in properly
discussing/defending Christianity. It's most refreshing! :) You
write very well and obviously have a very sharp, active mind. I
wish that I had known you a while back when I was by myself dealing
with Pagans and the like on VirtualNet. :)
So many of our kindred just don't get into the spirit of
things in areas like this for some reason. I don't know if it's
because they feel that all their efforts are "pearls before swine"
or if they just don't see the value of planting the seeds that we
plant in spite of that the unbelievers think. What do you think?
I hope this new year is a blessed one for you thus far brother and
wish you all the best.
So long for now,
David
Infinitum Opus Dei
---
QMPro 1.53 It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 10 Jan 97 21:23:00
EID:f2b2 222aaae0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000d6a35
> I also wonder how we would counter a claim from the parapsychology
> crowd...how some would claim it's man's innate "psychic" powers acting
> rather than a deity. Suggestions? Not just from you, Marilyn, anyone got
This claim is not so difficult to counter. Let's say for discussion's
sake that man's innate psychic powers do on occasion heal him. Does this
disprove God? No. If the God that created man did so with this ability
as a
component placed therein, just like the ability to learn how to fix a
sick/damaged body, the healing is still of God in that the ability itself
is
a gift from Him. This same psychic ability, providing it does exist, did
not
create man so it cannot used to deny the existence of the Creator even if
it
does have the power to heal a person.
Regards,
David Ragland
---
QMPro 1.53 "Look at all the Indians!" - General Custer
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 10 Jan 97 21:54:00
EID:3c8d 222aaec0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000d6a38
AS> RH> I asked my wife how she could be happy in Heaven, knowing I was
> RH> burning in Hell.
AS> Oooohhhh. THAT's a rough question.
AS> RH> Her answer was that she would not remember me. Now, since we have
AS> What???? Where does she get that?
AS> RH> been married twice as long as she was single, she's going to wander
> RH> around Heaven wondering just who the Hell she IS.
AS> Do I get the odd feeling she puts a lot of presure on you to join the
> church...?
Al,
This little minuet with Roger and the Missuz has and will continue to
create the sort of questions that are asked of us by non-believers. Not
being all knowing creatures we are hard pressed to answer them. It's a
little disconcerting to see that they are asked within the bonds of matrimony
as in this scenario. That's because they are unequally yoked and thus will
have great problems as a result.
Preamble aside, I will assay to provide some modicum of resolve to this
quandary via perspective. I do not believe that she will not remember her
husband no more than I believe she will not remember *all* parts of her
incarnate life. The reflection upon the incarnate life is what will
eternally chasten those condemned to Hell and will, conversely, delight
those
who make it to Heaven. Her delight in her incarnate life, when in Heaven,
will be in the knowledge she made the correct choice.
Does this mean that she will not be saddened if Roger should not be
there with her in God's glorious presence? No. Even God Himself is grieved
at man's choice to reject Him and thus be damned by his own repudiative
nature. That is not to say that her compassion based twinges, no matter
how
strong, will negate any chance of her enjoying Heaven though. If they could,
then Heaven isn't all that The Word says it is, right?
Regards,
David Ragland
---
QMPro 1.53 "Modem," said the gardener when he'd finished the lawn..
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 10 Jan 97 22:57:00
EID:c73f 222ab720
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000d6a3b
AS>I think my reply to Marty was swallowed when I had those problems with
the
> BBS I used to post from. By "word" I meant unit of language...it doesn't
> matter whether the medium is verbal, electrical, smell, whatever. The
> ability to coin new terms to fit the situation is VERY interesting, and
> very unlike the bulk of animalkind. I acknowledge your chimp example,
but
> note they are using human-derived sign language, not our own.
Al,
Darwin was correct about one thing for certain. There is a close
relation between language capabilities and intellect. However, I don't
know
if I would be too quick to give too much credit to the talking apes just
yet.
And I am not saying that anyone here is doing that. I just feel that doing
so give rise to the notion that there must be human-like language abilities
within these "alleged" early progenitors of man. It is true that speech
is
only "one" of the garments that language wears to meet press. However,
to
conclude that an ape's newly formed "gimme-a-banana-gesticulation" is to
be
compared to our own level of thought communication is perfunctory cognition
at best.
Only when language becomes free of the immediate control of external
stimuli does it become an instrument of reasoning in the true sense of the
word. Can apes acquire human language capabilities? Well, has one ever
asked for a banana when one was not present or had not just been brought
up
by someone else? Where is the proof of their capability of abstract thought?
Peace,
David Ragland
---
QMPro 1.53 "Mr. Worf, fire phasers at #FN@" ... Zzzzzap!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 12 Jan 97 01:03:28
EID:7e93 222c0860
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d83879
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 040d4172
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
sq>> My in-laws are afflicted with that particular brand of
sq>> Christianity, and my youngest brother-in-law has a -great-
sq>> book on proselytization, which also includes some "pointers"
sq>> on how to refrain from autoeroticism.
I'm going to copy that thing the next time we're in Salt Lake. Count on
it.
FR> I wonder if any of these "self help books" enumerate things
FR> which boys and girls shouldn't think about while masturbating -- if
FR> one must.
"Tithing."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Fundy death cult "prophecy"
|Date: 12 Jan 97 01:04:54
EID:c9af 222c0880
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d83922
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d43be6
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Jovis dies January 09 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> The reason you don't recognize him is that he's NOT Sarducci, and he
SQ>> doesn't even have his moustache (which might even be a fake). Now
DC> Sounds like my cousin's husband the other day! I saw him with
DC> a completely different beard/moustache. If I didn't recognize
DC> his voice, I wouldn't have know who he was!
My wife has never seen me clean-shaven. Odds are that she'll have to ask
the person who does the autopsy to shave it off so she can get a good look
before they cremate me. :)
SQ>> than "Sarducci?" Man, I just about died when he did the "Find the
SQ>> popes in the pizza" contest on Weekend Update.
DC> Now, that was a great routine!
Wasn't he behind the one where they elected ZZ Top "President of the United
States?"
DC> Still, the best in there was "Jane, you are a sleazy slut!"
"Jane, you ignorant slut. Who DID you sleep with to get this job, anyways?"
DC> I think the best when they "capture" the young Borg. I think
DC> they call him "Herb". On his way to re-assimulation, he gives
DC> the landing party that returns him a wave.
"We are Hugh." That was a good one. :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 12 Jan 97 01:06:42
EID:feae 222c08c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d8398c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d43d55
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Jovis dies January 09 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Steve Quarrella:
DC> I wish I had a VCR when that series first appeared! Do you know
DC> if it's ever been placed on video tape?
Some of the Honor Blackman shows were released back in the early 90s --
"Death of a Great Dane" was one of them -- but I think they released two
or three of 'em and then that was it. I've got all of the Avengers on tape
around here somewhere. Even some of the Tara King episodes were pretty
good, but Linda Thorson didn't hold a CANDLE to Diana Rigg or Honor Blackman
(who looked mighty nice in those leather outfits :).
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 12 Jan 97 01:09:24
EID:a4f8 222c0920
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d839e3
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 32d36f67
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Mark!
Jovis dies January 09 1997, Dixit Mark O'Neill ad Carl Pollock:
MON> Earth was flat. Christianity survives on guilt, fear and greed. Nothing
MON> else.
I posit that this is what makes the likes of Jesse Jones perform "good things."
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 12 Jan 97 01:10:54
EID:e87f 222c0940
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d83ae6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73661761
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Marilyn!
Mercurii dies January 08 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Marilyn Burge:
MB>> It was in a Catholic hospital, and she "baptized" it immediately
MB>> after I expelled it, believe it or not.
For real? And you didn't kill her afterwards? My wife and I don't plan
to have any children, but if there should be an accident, "death or dismemberment"
is the penalty for -anybody- (her side OR mine) who decides to baptize the
little tyke. That kind of self-righteous bullshit really puts me out.
And before any of you Fundy assholes smirk and say "Hey, atheist, what are
you afraid of?", let me baptize your kid into the Dopefish church against
your will. Do it now, as it'll save me a lot of hassle when I perform the
Grand Induction one of these days.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Michael Ayres
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: Gawd was wrong?
|Date: 08 Jan 97 15:13:01
EID:8dc4 222879a0
MSGID: 1:3805/24@fidonet.org 040e6beb
Hey Alan:
> Let me get this straight - God is supposed to be perfect. This
> perfect god gives a set of laws to man. 2,000 years ago, this
> perfect god allegedly sent a man to tell his people, "I was wrong -
> you don't have to obey my original perfect laws any more. Here's a
> new set from me that supercede the perfect laws I originally gave
> you. My son is here to tell you the new laws, as well as which of
> the old laws you should still follow. His followers will clarify
> everything in their books."
> This is the story of Christmas.
That's essentially it - except you left out the part about the world ending
anyway, in spite of our best efforts to fuck it up beforehand.
This is the optimistic side of it. Don Martin likely has a slightly more
dismal slant on things.
Michael
--- FMail 1.0g
* Origin: Ye Public House of Tullamore / Wichita Falls, Texas (1:3805/24)
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|From: Christopher Baker
|To: All
|Sub: Re: Re: Tis The Season...
|Date: 10 Jan 97 13:47:22
EID:3531 222a6de0
MSGID: 1:18/14 32D68EBA
PID: GenMsg 5.00 [0002]
Date: 10 Jan 97 18:47:22 UTC
* Copy of message posted via BREVARD_USERS
* Date: 10 Jan 97 13:41:32
* From: Christopher Baker
* To: Jim Maclaren
* Message text was not edited!
> JS>Do you liken seeing God to an employment interview? What job will
> JS>you be applying for... First Harp? Cloud Fluffer? Linen Bleacher?
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thud! Copyright (C) Earl Truss
do you have Internet access? you might like to check out the Official Contest
of the Gods. any and all gods are invited to pass three challenges for
recognition of divine supremacy once and for all. go to:
http://www2.islandnet.com/~luree/contest.html
and watch the fur fly as everybody's gods get down to it. [snicker]
QOFM.
Chris
- DB B2300sl/001027
@ Origin: Rights On! - Users? Eewwww! - Edgewater_FL (1:18/14)
@PATH: 18/14
--- GenMsg [0002] (cbaker84@digital.net)
* Origin: Rights On! - Religion Free Always! - Edgewater_FL_USA (1:18/14)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Scopes was convicted!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 22:14:14
EID:7271 222bb1c0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d859090
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d642e7
Hello Dan!
Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
[about QB VII]
DC> It was a tough read and a tough watch. Not that it was
DC> difficult in it's material but because it was based on the
DC> facts of the actual case Uris was sued over. It's hard to
DC> realize that what happened actually did.
DC> Do you know if it's available on VCR?
I don't know. I taped it when it was shown here so I have
never looked for a VCR version. No, sorry, that's a lie...
the very first time I saw it WAS on a rented VCR, so it
must exist.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 22:29:33
EID:1716 222bb3a0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d859091
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d70d0d
Hello David!
David Worrell wrote in a message to Domino:
CP>> How is that possable? Either you belive in God or you don't!
DW>> Ah! You meant "... are you an atheist or a theist?"
DW>> The answer is still neither, though.
D> Could the answer be.. Agnostic?
DW> Nope. Agnostics need to grow some balls and climb down off
DW> that fence. :)
Hey... fence or no fence, how would you classify somebody who
just don't care - one way or another? Atheist means to me a
person who has found the subject of religion important enough
to become disenchanted and take an 'anti-stand' (in spite of
any philological hair-splitting).
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 22:46:40
EID:1d66 222bb5c0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d859095
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1caf9906
Hello Robert!
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to MIMI MILSTEIN:
RC> with: Ronald Vass
MM> What 'grabbed my chain' was your naked cruelty
RC> You must have lived a very sheltered life to consider Ron's
RC> remarks here in this forum examples, somehow, of "naked
RC> cruelty." Bizarrely punctuated, yes, but cruel? Seems to me
RC> that you are overreacting.
Don't you worry your pretty little head with my sheltered life
or my overreactions (it can actually be pretty hair-raising
as we play the stock market on a regular basis). If Ronald
wanted to open Pandora's box by dragging other people's private
tragedies into speculative and maliciously gleeful scenarios
he should also expect strong reactions - from the 'victim' and
any other correspondent feeling that he went over board.
MM> BAIT is your prime mover, and SOUL seems to be an alien
MM> commodity to you... regardless of how much you hurt your
MM> correspondents. I will bet 'Empathy' and/or 'Draw the Line'
MM> is not embroidered on any of your shirt pockets.
RC> Whereas you are above demonstrating how to be soulful and
RC> kind?
I demonstrated exactly what his crude behavior deserved,
contempt.
RC> Heh. Back in the kitchen with you, Madame Pot.
You read my mind :-) I was just going out there to pour
myself a tall cool glass of something satisfying. While I
am at it, I will fetch you a double Alkaseltzer.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:28:37
EID:fbbb 222bbb80
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2d859096
REPLY: 1:207/212 702dd13c
Hello Karen!
Karen Davis wrote in a message to Jim Staal:
KD> On (01 Jan 97) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> Then he doesn't qualify under the prophesies, then does he? If he
KD> isn't the son of Joseph he isn't of the house of David.
JS> Ah...check Mary's lineage once.
KD> Which is irrelevant in Judaism.
Are you sure? The definition of a Jew is a person born of a
Jewish mother (or having gone through proper conversion).
But I agree with your dilemma - it seems meaningless that
the 2 Evangelists waste all that space on the genealogy of
Joseph (and they don't even agree). Something indicates
they were not too certain about the divine involvement.
Something smells fairy tale...
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 12 Jan 97 12:35:26
EID:1182 222c646d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe3
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 fc803779
PID: FM 2.02
DW> Bullshit again. I simply pointed out that your daughter was
DW> overweight. Your reaction, your husband's reaction, and
DW> Marilyn's reaction showed just how truly *uncomfortable* with
DW> your respective weights all of you are.
mb> Gwen, this is an out-and-out lie, and the lying sack of shit knows
mb> it. I TOLD HIM the reason I spoke up: it was because he was
mb> ragging on the two of you about something you could do nothing
mb> about.
Do you honestly believe that people have no control over their own weight?!
Or that parents have no control over an offspring's weight?
I don't want to jump into this idiotic, fuckingly stupid argument; I just
read your comment above and had to wonder if you actually believe this else
typed something in badly.
~*~ ... I am Khan of Borg. From hell's heart I assimilate thee..
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like / Contradictions / Species behavior
|Date: 12 Jan 97 12:43:48
EID:459f 222c6578
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe4
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2d724320
PID: FM 2.02
MG>I see you have chosen the apologetic route. Please explain to me why
mg> your merciful and all powerful god lets this kind of shit go down.
CH> Thank you for the reply. Sure, I would be happy to answer your
CH> question, but help me try to relate to you, please. I ask...
DC> Try answering the question. It's a far better way of
DC> relating in this medium.
dom> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity
dom> that's allowing anything, that we're allowing everything?
A species -- every species, not just humans -- allow ethics and modes of
behavior which are expedient at the time. Morality _is_ that which a society
can afford at the time. We -- all of us -- allow humans to starve to death
because we don't, by and large, care. We are genetically ingrained with
the desire to assist those of us who share the same phenotypes as us yet
that same genetic predisposition predisposes us to ignore the needs of those
which don't.
Martin is fully aware that there are no deity constructs involved; he's
trying to get the Christanic death cultist to question the morality of his
own gods he claims to worship.
dom> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
And contradicts that claim repeatedly.
The scientific fact, however, is that all species have "free will" but that
their behavior is tailored by their genes and environment -- not to mention
the political and socio-economic constraints of their day.
~*~ I can't believe the masses are so dumb. Or I can't believe
I am this smart! - Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 12 Jan 97 12:47:00
EID:6b9d 222c65e0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe5
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 13f19fcb
PID: FM 2.02
LB> Kat, I'm starting to think Ron darling doesn't TRUST us....
kw> So? All the more brownies for the rest of us. He does, however,
kw> seem to have caught onto the fact that the Holysmoke Harpies are much
kw> easier to handle when well placated with good chocolate.
I'm going to have to add that note to the HolySmoke Convention notes. }:-}
~*~ A god is only as capable as its inventor. - ROBERT CURRY
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Bacteria & Evolution.
|Date: 12 Jan 97 12:48:46
EID:aca5 222c6617
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe6
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88ad98e5
PID: FM 2.02
la> Yes indeed, but what has that got to do with Darwin's
la> Amoeba to Man evolution?
You skipped just a few transitions, you fundy idiot troll.
~*~ A fool can find intelligence tomorrow. You will remain a
fundy, forever. - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous gods
|Date: 12 Jan 97 12:55:00
EID:bf83 222c66e0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d709ae
PID: FM 2.02
#include Brett Johnson
#exclude Fredric Rice
BlowJob> MY relationship, the covenant that exists between God
Blowjob> and myself is an exclussive one.
dc> That's nice. That means you exclude Frederic
dc> from your god. You are a jealous one, it seems.
And I'm hurt. Really.
BJ> The Scriptures allegorically compare it to a marriage.
dc> Which of you has top or bottom?
He's making noise like he's a Mormon brand of fundy. As such his god is
always on top.
~*~ Anyone can talk to God David, even you. - Andrew Masten (rabid fundy)
Anyone can talk to cheese, Andy, even you. - Fredric L. Rice
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Blast from the past
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:14:28
EID:ac01 222c69ce
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20be
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d789eb
PID: FM 2.02
FR> But the fact that the disciples all saw and ate and
FR> touched Jesus is important. - Al Schroeder
FR> Christanic cannibalism. Disgusting!
gt> Either that or an xtianic gay orgy. Take your pick.
Hey, don't do there. }:-} Actually I'm torn between which is the most
disgusting. }:-}
~*~ I say let's keep God (ie the Lord) out of the public schools, if for
no other reason than to protect children from a faith worse than death.
- Robert Schubert
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:19:40
EID:2ed4 222c6a74
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20bf
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d78b4f
PID: FM 2.02
FR> If ___ANYONE___ would deliver food to me and accept checks, I
fr> would start using their services (vegetarian food, that is.)
fr> Dominos would never see another dime from me if I could find
fr> another.
gt> I prefer Blackjack's pickup service -- better
gt> price and it's only a block from work.
There's a pizza place about 70 miles from where I live and about 30 fom
where David lives -- Sgt. Pepperoni's. In my youth I must have shoves about
a thousand of them superior pan-type pizzas down my neck and would have
no other.
Were they still in business I might have considered changing jobs and moving
closer to them. Strictly virgin olive oil-fried crust with the nicest green
hot peppers -- I miss my Sgt. Pepperoni's.
FR> Imagine: Here in Amerikkka if we're hungry, we pick up a telephone
FR> and someone brings us food. Canada, Europe, Australia... Mexico?
So
FR> many places where a very real human need can be filled without effort
FR> or thought simply by picking up a telephone.
gt> Ain't it grand?
'Sure is. There are, I hear, web pages one can click on and fill in the
blanks. Pizza then arives right at the door. Amazing.
~*~ You want this to scare me, show me that your God exists. - Sean McCullough
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:21:57
EID:d503 222c6abc
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c0
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d79672
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Did I ever mention the design I came up with for punching-out
fr> caltrops from a sheet of metal for mass-production? Some day
fr> I need to get into the caltrop manufactureing business.
gt> Sounds good. I'd like to see it.
I have it in PreDesign format in my floppy archives. There was a time I
thought about distributing it. The main press is simply a desk-mounted
vice. Some day I've got to think of a commercial use.
FR> Imagine 10,000 caltrops dumped out the back of a pick-up
fr> on a 10-mile long section of public-land logging road.
gt> Or in the road in front of a PK revival
gt> just before the sheep are let out.
Oh you _are_ thinking! }:-}
Gee. I wonder if it would be illegal.
~*~ "Then began a long and bloody crusade to win back the Holy Tag Line
from the infidels who had occupied it for so long..." - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Bathroom Staal: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:23:45
EID:b7ce 222c6af6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c1
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d78ca1
PID: FM 2.02
FR> How about an ounce of lead? But
fr> then advocating hatred isn't illegal and shouldn't be.
gt> Legislating hatred and enforced ignorance,
gt> however, should be a capital crime.
Agreement. Ironic, isn't it, that various States have passed "hate crime"
bills to broaden the punishment for already-recognized crimes and yet the
worse hate crimes of all are hate laws, not crimes.
~*~ I am implying nothing, Luke. I am saying straight out he is the
imbodiment of evil. Anti-God blasphemer. - Lon S. Mabon (HolySmoke)
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Think about it
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:25:45
EID:4ba2 222c6b36
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c2
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32d793d1
PID: FM 2.02
AS> Communication: Bible; think about it.
If you do you will become a non-Christian, Al. Best not.
~*~ Oh, what the hell, please just kill yourself now. - Kirby Nixon
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:28:57
EID:0bc3 222c6b9c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c3
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2d7ef137
PID: FM 2.02
BS> itself, when 1600 turned to 1700 and 1700 turns to 1800 (etc etc)
BS> there was the SAME ol millennium madness. It is NOTHING new, not
JB> And we might get an extra year of peace if the stupid
JB> fundies would learn to count. There was no year 0.
JB> Therefore, the 21st century doesn't begin until Jan. 1,
JB> 2001.
mm> Yes, and BTW I think Brian has confused
mm> millennium with century. Oh well...
Yet the same lunacy reigns whenever there's two or three zeros in the Gregorian
date. What gets it even more silly is that Agustus ruled as Octavian for
four years, making the alleged date of the Jesus mythos off by four additional
years.
~*~ You heathens hold court here viciously attacking anyone who dares to
profess religious faith. - Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Satan
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:34:17
EID:ff2b 222c6c48
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c4
REPLY: 1:134/67.666 c7c28a4b
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I never knew anything about this television thing. Was he
FR> told that he couldn't have a television? Does his entire cult
FR> fraction dictate that?
sat> He was a hard-case Christian who had come to the faith
sat> through a crisis. He used to run that Maranantha Net.
Yes, we had the poor fool in here once. I changed my origin line to underscore
his ignorant rantings:
Origin: MARANATHA! NETWORK, KILLING FOR JESUS! (1:102/890) - FLR
I wonder if a Fido Policy complaint against your node would work?
If not, prayer will. - Martin Riley
sat> It was weird when, one day, his attitude changed. He had been put
sat> through a crisis by his own congregation. He had bought his family
sat> a TV and the entire congregation ostracized him and family members
sat> as a result. It hurt him a great deal, and through that hurt he
sat> revealed a side which was a little easier to accept.
We all learned that he no longer considered himself a Christian -- at least
the type of fundy brainless brand that he exhibited. I had no idea that
it was motivated by his cult's fear of television.
sat> He didn't feel that he had lost faith in Jesus Christ. He felt he
sat> had lost faith in the church he was attending. Certainly, his
sat> attitude was a bit less fervent despite his insistence that he still
sat> retained his relationship with Jesus Christ.
He must have waffled on the edge of tossing aside Christianity entirely
for a short while and then backslid, then. The last we all heard was that
he was questioning the validity of his occultism.
sat> We were very amused when he invited Us out for a beer or two :-)
sat> We did not go :-(
I wouldn't either. Such people are dangerous. When people believe that
their gods dictate their behavior, when they're experiencing a crisis it's
possible that they'll adopt behavior according to their as-yet-not-fully-discarded
superstitions.
~*~ When I played in the sandbox, the cat kept covering me up. - Quentin
Fai
I didn't know you are a lawyer. Wow! - David Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: CHEESE WHIZ ON TOAST
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:35:31
EID:464d 222c6c6f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c5
PID: FM 2.02
NC>> Unlike a organ removed durning a operation, the fetus will become a
NC>> human.. It has everything it needs to grow and be born...
FR> No, your masters are lying to you. Most pregnacies spontaneously
fr> abort even before the woman knows that she's preggers.
bb> One out of three pregnancies, if I remember correctly...
That sounds about right. David Rice posts the statistics every now and
then when a bible-worshipper needs to be corrected.
~*~ The real world is NOT a friendly place for faith or ideals.
- Sean McCullough
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:37:18
EID:5043 222c6ca9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c6
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I wonder if any of them realize that boycotts work both ways.
FR> Christianic zealots which include a fish symbol probably don't even
FR> consider the possibility that non-Christians give their shops a miss.
bb> Reminds me of a used car dealership called "Car Circus" that
bb> we have here in Harrisburg. The sign changes weekly--I believe
bb> last weeks was "Jesus is Lord". ;)
Doubtless expressing Beta Male domination subservient behavior
rhetoric is useful for convincing other pious Betas that the dealers are
on equal social levels.
~*~ God touches brains - John Brawley
Which is why believers' brains are scrambled - Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:40:00
EID:cb89 222c6d00
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c8
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32d80c2e
PID: FM 2.02
FR> That Christians would like to see a murderer killed is
FR> in keeping with the faith. (And Islamic faith, I will
FR> add.)
jf> Murder isn't part of the Christian faith!
Perhaps you should visit your local library and research the history of
the Christanic death cult.
jf> Jesus taught non-violence and tolerance.
No one knows what a "Jesus" might have taught and what it might not have
taught. If it existed it left no known writings.
In any event, what a club states publically is to be ignored when their
actions speak loudly. History shows what Christianity is all about. It's
murder, hatred, bigotry, greed, avarice -- all that is destructive of humanity.
jf> The fault lies more in that people have
jf> let power and emotion override the teachings.
The fault rests with people who want to pretend their death cult is anything
other than what it really is, thus perpetuating the tyranny.
~*~ I am free to think any way I please. I Corinthians 6:12. - Jim Staal
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:41:51
EID:f371 222c6d39
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20c9
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f654
PID: FM 2.02
sq>> You -do- realize that you've probably made the Jesse C.
sq>> Jones Fundy quotefile for that one, don't you? :)
FR> Oh shit! I had better beg for forgiveness and recant, huh? }:-}
sq> Just two hundred years ago, that might have
sq> been a requirement for you to continue living.
The only thing that keeps it from being so today is the overwhelming number
of firearms owned by the populace. The United States Consitition only defanged
Christianity; it didn't skin the beast.
~*~ It does not take a complex to know that I am persecuted
in this conference. - Jesse C. Jones
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:49:26
EID:af88 222c6e2d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20ca
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f776
PID: FM 2.02
JJ>>>> means is available. What a challenge! Can we topple the "Great
JJ>>>> Holysmoke" by this time next year. Really think about it. WE CAN
DO
JJ>>>> IT!
FR>> NO THEY CAN'T!
"We can teach these hurtful heathens a thing or two! We'll flee! That'll
show 'em! That'll show 'em all!"
FR> No bet here... not even if every fundy were to pack up and
FR> leave this instant would HolySmoke and our "fun" end.
sq> Of course not. If they were to pack up and leave the
sq> PLANET, headed for the star known as "Sol," THEN maybe
sq> the echo would come to a halt.
Slow down, yes... Stop? No. We have too many non-cultism related discussions
here; some other lunacy would be picked and we would dismantle that one
just as gleefully. Hell, we would probably end up a Muslim-bashing or a
Judism-bashing forum unless fundamentalists of all stripes left/refused
to perticipate.
sq> But it would have to be ALL the Fundies, not just the ones
sq> who post in HOLYSMOKE. What was it that Oscar Wilde said
sq> about it being worse to NOT be talked about than it was TO
sq> be talked about?
Better to be remembered in infamy than remain unknown.
FR> And in fact I seriously doubt if either JJ has left at all; they're
FR> doubtless waiting around to see how their pretend "boycott" is
FR> working out.
sq> I have no doubt that Jones is still
sq> scanning the echo from time to time.
Only for "research" reasons, of course... like Christian masters who get
caught with hookers?
FR> I expect Jesse to return any day now and demand, "I never said I was
FR> leaving for good" like he did the last time he "left."
sq> He'll get a Jones-Jeanneault enema if he does.
I'll add ice cubes and pepper to the water.
sq>> He backed off of his Fundamentalism after he bought a TV
sq>> and his "church friends" rejected him.
FR> Yes, I recall that he started making
fr> noises about not being a Christian any more.
sq> He was at least taking the first step. I wonder if he still
sq> places any value in his deity beliefs. Getting away from the
sq> robots was definitely a step in the right direction, as even
sq> HE recognized them for what they truly are.
In the previous messages to "Satan" I respond to comments he/she made about
this very thing. I had no idea it was motivated by a phobia of television.
It seems that he still thinks of himself as a Christian, however.
Too bad. He saw the lunacy of his own occultism and sepped back from the
brink long enough to escape... but then backslid into the dark.
sq> As I recall, he belongs to some group that says that TV is
sq> a no-no. It's "of this world," you know. It brings in
sq> -education,- and the cult masters don't want ANY part of THAT.
It's not in the Christian bible so it shouldn't exist.
FR> This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ.
FR> There are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that
fr> are going to be transformed into rabid Christers. - John Prewett
sq> Loving it!
I asked the poor dear to give us a date on this. }:-}
~*~ "Pi = 3, no error at all - Jesus is God, so listen to Paul! With
faith in your Babble, beat Satan at Scrabble! Type things to hide
your illiterate scrawl." - Robert Curry
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:53:06
EID:24b5 222c6ea3
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20cb
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f817
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Now I see that various death cultists have started boycotting
fr> Disney because they acknowledge homosexual marriages.
sq> I heard that Disney is going to "update" the Pirates of the
sq> Caribbean ride so as to get rid of the maidens being chased
sq> around. Fact or fiction?
They're doing it now, in fact. There are crews working off and on and they're
expected to complete the tasks by the start of Summer. Idiotically now
the male pirates are going to be chasing plates of food. Is that stupid
or what?!
FR> Now that IBM has started to acknowledge homosexual marriages, a guy
FR> in a humanist newsletter I get wondered if they're going to throw
FR> away all their computers and software and start boycotting IBM.
sq> It's much deeper than that. How many companies depend on
sq> mainframes running SNA, and how many of them are involved
sq> with things critical to the Fundy's life? Restaurants,
sq> credit cards, auto makers, phone companies, the list goes
sq> on forever.
You're right... I didn't think of the IBM protocols nor the IBM machines
employed by government agencies. I think it a good weapon to use against
fundies who claim they're boycotting. I'll be sure to rub their fucking
faces in it.
FR> I wonder if any of them realize that boycotts work both ways.
fr> Christianic zealots which include a fish symbol probably don't
fr> even consider the possibility that non-Christians give their
fr> shops a miss.
sq> My wife and I have had this discussion. I won't go THAT
sq> far, but I -do- wonder why these clowns feel that putting
sq> that stupid fish on their sign makes them any more qualified
sq> than the next guy. THAT concerns me.
I would bet that they do believe it grants them special dispensations not
enjoyed by other companies which don't do likewise.
~*~ You're soaking in it now. - Hector Plasmic
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Still waiting, John
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:54:12
EID:2718 222c6ec6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20cc
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f8c9
PID: FM 2.02
FR> This echo is going to be used to greatly spread faith in Christ.
FR> There are going to be some fanatic HolySmoke anti-Christers that
fr> are going to be transformed into rabid Christers. - John Prewett
FR> Have a date on this, John?
sq>
Henry Kissinger's got his toung.
~*~ EVERYONE FROM THE SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST. - Christopher Calabrese
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:55:13
EID:f846 222c6ee6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20cd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f909
PID: FM 2.02
FR> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and
fr> inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
fr> convention's hotels? I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
fr> magazine.
sq> Shoot, that's amateurish. How about getting a stack of Hustler
sq> magazines and putting their contents into the books in the pews
sq> of an organization that has done wrong to you?
_MY_ suggestion is amateurish?!
~*~ I still wonder why natural selection has not yet found you and
corrected its great mistake. - Marty Leipzig
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Stuart Lumgair
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:57:23
EID:90f3 222c6f2b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20ce
REPLY: 1:153/556.0 2d6c3832
PID: FM 2.02
DC> John, the concept is there. You could be doing the math in
DC> base 2 or in hex, the concept of numbers requires a zero to
DC> make any and all of them to work.
sl> As I recall from my math courses, a long time ago, zero
sl> is not included in one of the number sets. I don't even
sl> recall all the number sets. Real, whole, integer, etc..
sl> From a certain viewpoint, saying that zero is a number
sl> equates with saying that atheism is a belief. Zero is a
sl> lack of any numbers.
Hell, my math skills are about as good as my spelling skills and yet I was
taught that zero is a valid integer which belongs in any number of different
sets and that zero is a number just like any other.
Zero can be manipulated nearly just like any other.
~*~ We were blood brothers, pals forever. He was my very best friend.
Nobody else could see him. I now know he was just pretend. - Dan Barker
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:58:15
EID:6ec8 222c6f47
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20cf
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 c7932e0b
PID: FM 2.02
Dom> What evidence do you have to say that Jesus was male and the Bible
is
Dom> an accurate reference for anything besides the beleifs and practices
Dom> of Christianity?
ijs> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is
ijs> useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training
ijs> in righteousness,
When in fact the death cult's mythologies are mostly used to justify hatred
and bigotry -- yours, in fact, is a good example.
~*~ If one wants definitive idiocy one must seek out the ultimate idiot.
- Simon Ewins
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Buttfuck Staal
|Date: 12 Jan 97 13:59:26
EID:a70f 222c6f6d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d0
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f4c4bf91
PID: FM 2.02
GT> Let's just make it more non-denominational and include Isis, Kali,
GT> Herne, and Gwenny. Hey, I am a goddess.
ijs> Or you are, are you? All that in addition to being
ijs> a male bashing man hater?
Ah, yes. Any female who exhibits the audacity of shoving your face into
your own warm shit must naturally hate all men.
Look at what Christianity has done to you.
~*~ 1 Sam 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they
have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and
suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. -- Christian Family Values
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:00:11
EID:2f49 222c7005
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d1
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 75992b7c
PID: FM 2.02
GT> I wasn't pagan when I got divorced. That is what
gt> he meant. My divorce fall into Christian stats.
ijs> Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.
Mormons _are_ Christians you ignorant buttfuck bigot.
~*~ You're threatening to attack someone with an onion. - J.J. Hitt
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: brett johnson: Sick pervert
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:01:10
EID:45e6 222c7025
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d2
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2615a91a
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> The same situation exists for other sacred relationships in this
BJ> life...the most akin to the "God-Man" relationship being that between
BJ> the husband and wife.
cj> Sick.
In spades.
~*~ We'll have to slaughter innocent people who show how godly we are.
- Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Goodbye! goodbye! night
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:02:54
EID:e2d6 222c705b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d3
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2615acd2
PID: FM 2.02
SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
EM> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
KW> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
cj> GALACTOSE! GALACTOSE! RUN HIM!
GLUCOSE! GLUCOSE! GLAZE HIM!
~*~ I learned from some of the best teaches around I suppose.
- Johnny Henderson
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mine's bigger, damn you!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:05:29
EID:5c16 222c70ae
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d4
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d81f7c
PID: FM 2.02
FR> That's what I would guess as well.
fr> The last time he "left" he was back shortly.
sq> I wonder if there's a mathematical progression ("bell
sq> curve") to be had as far as the first time someone
sq> leaves versus the second and succeeding times. :)
We'll have to start plotting it after his third cumming.
FR> Perhaps when his palms sweat and itch enough he'll jump in here,
FR> telling us all he never claimed he was leaving for good.
sq> He'll get hit hard if he ever makes that claim. :)
He _did_ make the claim once already, as I recall.
~*~ You can't discuss Scientology because you know that L.Ron
Hubbard is a really pathetic excuse for a God. - TarlaStar
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:06:16
EID:b61d 222c70c8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73730ea3
PID: FM 2.02
DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson very ugly.
mg> You die.
I never liked her looks either. She had class, however, as she apparently
does in real life.
~*~ Lie, Billy. Lie for the lord. - Martin Goldberg
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:06:49
EID:fdb5 222c70d8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738d8dfb
PID: FM 2.02
SH> BULL TURNS TAIL AT ZULU SLAUGHTER RITUAL
mg> And your point is?
That anything he has to say should have its validity questioned.
~*~ "He'd ask me if I'd ever let anyone screw my daughter when she was
that young, and I said, 'No, She's only nine years old.' He asked me
if she started developing [breasts] or if she had any hair down
there. I said 'Nooo...' he even asked me if pussy was real tight or
not... sometimes he used the word cunt... 'I can picture my cock
going in and out of a pussy like that,' he said... I didn't know
what to say. I though, 'This man's got to be sick."
-- Debra Murphree detailing Jimmy Swaggart's
interest in her 9 year old daughter.
(Penthouse magazine, July 1988)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Where are my glasses?
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:08:26
EID:cdef 222c710d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d7
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e22c3
PID: FM 2.02
FR> My question is, why does this teacher still have a job?
mg> ONe of my favorite explanation for how the world operates
mg> is "I've cut this rope off twice and it's still too short."
Ah. Common sense. That's why this woman still has a job. She, her superiors,
and the majority who control the school board all have common sense. Not
___reason___, ___justice___, ___ethics___, and a sense of what's right or
wrong, but just the sense that is common among American society today.
~*~ I can't think of any come-back to his cutting, witty,
slaying "I'm-leaving-now-so-there!" rebuttal. - David Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:09:56
EID:75df 222c713c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d8
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e2619
PID: FM 2.02
FR> There is a pretty good chance of that because they both
fr> participate on #holysmoke and the media allows for unsupervised
FR> discussions.
mg> You mean "no chaperone".
Which I would have said had I not considered the effort of looking up the
proper spelling to great a price to pay.
mg> I thought all of those kinds of disucssions had to do with sex.
A great deal certainly does, yes. The overriding biological urges of humanity
are the main course on Internet Relay Chat, it seems.
~*~ They (Creationists) have the same loss for words that afflicts a
child who knows he's been caught in a blatant lie. - Al Nevison
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bible: HolySmoke web site
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:11:10
EID:498f 222c7165
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20d9
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e2fda
PID: FM 2.02
FR> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and
FR> inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
FR> convention's hotels? I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
FR> magazine.
mg> Or an ad for a web prayer site. The url will take them
mg> to our Holysmoke Little Shop of Horrors. They will end
mg> up in hell for merely reading it.
There's a good idea! Sadly we still don't seem to have a web site and Ryan
Shaw has utterly disappeared, taking the site with him.
I've been thinking I should get it done; I think we've all waited long enough
for Styx and Frederick to get their shit together.
~*~ It is the absence of belief in GOD and MORALITY in this country and
peopel like YOU that are causing the proliferation of AIDS, Queers,
and Abortion!! - Eric Lambeth
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:12:37
EID:58db 222c7192
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20da
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e38a7
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Then in some countries one must stand in line for six hours to
FR> pick up the week's allotment of bread. And in other countries
FR> one must walk miles to hand pump water to a bucket then carry it
FR> back. I think it's interesting.
mg> I think it's economics.
But there's more to it than that. Go to other places some 3000 miles from
my house and tell someone that I can have food brought to my door with zero
effort and I could be greeted with skepticism.
~*~ I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Scopes was convicted!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:14:18
EID:d387 222c71c9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20db
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e47dc
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Fact is that science wasn't found guilty, Scopes was -- and he
FR> was. It didn't detract one iota from the fact that evolution is
FR> a directly observed phenomena but Creationist lunatics would like
FR> to pretend that evolution was on trial and that it lost.
mg> The fundy in question asked about Scopes. In his deluded
mg> mind, if Scopes was convicted then all of Evolution was
mg> indicted. My answer was formulated to convince him that
mg> he was an ignorant pile of pig shit.
Why do you expend time and effort with him? He has ZERO intention of ever
admitting to learning ANYTHING. He's another George M. and Leonard B. only
this one wants people to think he's incapable of learning.
~*~ God doesn't believe in atheists - Johnny Mckinney
Good, perhaps he'll leave us alone, now. - Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:15:12
EID:bdac 222c71e6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20dc
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e6690
PID: FM 2.02
DH> Nobody asked you to prove anything. Just tell us why God
DH> starves innocent people to death. Do you know?
CP> Because love somehow allows it.
mg> Are you serious about this?
I would opine that he is. Love = hate. Bigotry = tolerance. Orwellian.
~*~ ... Rush Limbaugh gay? That's enough to make homosexuals homophobic.
- David Rice
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 12 Jan 97 14:16:52
EID:5ec2 222c721a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20dd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d83879
PID: FM 2.02
sq>> My in-laws are afflicted with that particular brand of
sq>> Christianity, and my youngest brother-in-law has a -great-
sq>> book on proselytization, which also includes some "pointers"
sq>> on how to refrain from autoeroticism.
sq> I'm going to copy that thing the next
sq> time we're in Salt Lake. Count on it.
I want to see a full report on the HolySmoke Central Committee's desk the
morning after.
FR> I wonder if any of these "self help books" enumerate things
FR> which boys and girls shouldn't think about while masturbating -- if
FR> one must.
sq> "Tithing."
}:-} That's probably actually damn close to what they're told to think
about... something religiously self-destructive and absurd.
~*~ My alternative view is that both atheists and theists are both
full of crap! - Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: You really want eternal life?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:25:39
EID:23f3 222bab20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 e2ae4443
Bilabial Fricatives on Fri 10 Ja, of Leonard Bernier/Paul Brandreth, thus:
LB> "For God so loved the woved the world that He gave His only begotten
LB> Son, that who ever believes in HIM / HER should not perish but have
LB> everlasting life.
I was gone for three weeks, and I seem to have missed where
you guys decided that your saviour was a hermaphrodite.
Please fill me in on this if the head nurse will allow it.
Thanx!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:35:28
EID:637b 222bac60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 b5f22723
Bilabial Fricatives on 03 Jan 97, of Marty Leipzig/ROBERT CURRY, thus:
RC> Let me know when you receive the Twelve Revelations from the GDO.
ML> RC>
ML> "GDO"? You still waiting for him?
Ah, yes. I have fond memories of a GDO one of the kids had
where I went to high school. It was a "Judge" model: 389, three
two-barrels, Muncie four-speed, posi rear end. Vroom!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:42:49
EID:e483 222bad40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f7acd799
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737b5fa1
Bilabial Fricatives on 10 Jan 97, of J.J. Hitt/David Worrell, thus:
JH> Full House Any comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
JH> Strait Flush Threats and curses. Includes the ever
JH> popular "I'll pray for you."
JH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
JH> too much more time passes.
Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a kind.
Or Yahtzee, perhaps.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 11 Jan 97 22:03:35
EID:9366 222bb060
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 0cbda013
REPLY: 1:229/622 32d6e393
Bilabial Fricatives on 11 Jan 97, of Dave Hamilton/Dan Ceppa, thus:
DH> Celibate priests educated in theology treating celibate (well,
DH> used to be) priests with uncurable sexual mental disorders so
DH> they can return to be celibate priests that will counsel folks
DH> on how to best conduct their marriage and family relationships...
LOL. Well, it is theology, after all. Were we expecting something
else? :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Re: *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:06:30
EID:59d3 222b70c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d79e66
-> On 09 Jan 97 16:42:54, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> echo is about cooking, but what exactly is cooking can be a
DC> bit off the wall!
Jd> Any burnt offering recipes?.....you know, quarter ox, whole ram, that
Jd> sorta weekend BBQ at the alter thing.
Sorry, at the alter thing we create steers. Of course, they are
for BBQ later in the season.
And, as for 'burnt offerings', I _know_ how to cook. The only
thing that will burn is when I make a 'black and blue' steak.
Ooops... I forgot my recipe for Flaming Fundy, which, of course,
is a vegetable dish.
... Burnt it? Hey, wait, call it "Blackened"! - Don Prudomme
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: ADD
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:10:59
EID:cc43 222b7140
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d79f73
-> On 31 Dec 96 06:27:00, George Mooth got back to All
GM> add -50
And, all this time we thought your IQ was far lower than that.
... "flaming fundy looney of the first order": By Stil Anon
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Re: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:16:51
EID:ec98 222b7200
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a0d3
-> On 09 Jan 97 18:31:20, Andrew Masten got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> How can a wealthy MATERIALIST be a 'devout christian' when J. Christ
Jd> himself said, "sell all you have and give the poor.."?
AM> He said that to one particular individual for a particular reason.
How do you know he wasn't talking about you, in particular?
AM> Jesus also said "Give and it will come back to you good measure,
AM> pressed down, shaken together and running over."
"Vodka Martini, shaken, not stirred.": James Bond
... "El O'him: God is an Irish Mexican." J.j. Hitt
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:20:55
EID:d6c9 222b7280
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a1c7
-> On 10 Jan 97 10:18:30, Al Schroeder got back to Ronald Vass
RV> [ now i guess this will trigger a 10 page sermon from Al ]
AS> In the words of distinguished theologian Karl Barth...
AS> (page 1) Jesus
AS> (page 2) loves
AS> (page 3) me
AS> (page 4) this
AS> (page 5) I
AS> (page 6) know,
AS> (page 7) because
AS> (page 8) The Bible
AS> (page 9) tells
AS> (page 10) me so.
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
Nice example of circular reasoning, Al. Imagine what Barth could
do with a Play-n-Pull version for kids.
... If I have any belief, it is that faith is a dangerous thing. --RBJ
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:23:17
EID:67a5 222b72e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a255
-> On 10 Jan 97 12:21:18, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> Would he like super-sized fries with that order?
JS> (Jim Staal at the take-out order thingey) 'Did I _say_ I wanted fries
JS> with that!?'
Sorry, Jimbo. You got that backwards, as usual. It's you
that are attempting to fill the orders at the drive-thru. And,
as usual, you forgot that you are all out of god, as if you
ever had any to begin with.
... "I'd be 'Erudite' if I knew what the fuck it meant..." Jim Staaled
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:29:52
EID:05d8 222b73a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a3e0
-> On 09 Jan 97 05:50:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Jan Deboer
JB> Ik ook.
JD> Eh?
JD> Regards,
JB> Groetjes.
Muchos groetjes, I'm sure!
... So, just what is a "groetjes"?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:45:13
EID:c2ce 222b75a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a779
-> On 07 Jan 97 18:03:03, Andrew Masten got back to Dan Ceppa
AM> The primary evidence for a creator is the universe. Just as a
AM> house is evidence of a house builder, this universe is evidence
DC> So, Andy, who created your creator? After all, something had
DC> to have created it, per you argument.
AM> No, as per all of my argument, if the universe was created, it
AM> was by a being beyond time and space, since prior to the universe
AM> there was no space or time.
Therefore, there was nothing for your "creator" to exist in. Hence,
Andrew, no "creator".
Now, if you want to continue on this line, show evidence that
your creator exists, both now and before the BB.
You do have some, don't you?
... "God told me" is no excuse for stupidity. -- Steve Quarrella
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:48:36
EID:c2ce 222b7600
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7a844
-> On 09 Jan 97 18:27:40, Andrew Masten got back to Martin Goldberg
AM> The universe is not emotional hyperbole. I'm convinced it exists.
Is it maybe that that's because you have _evidence_ that the
universe exists?
AM> Get back to me when you have an alternate explanation for how the
AM> universe came to be.
The big turtle has 4 elephants standing on it, holding up the
entire array of stars and planets on their backs.
Works at least as well as you version, and was extant a lot
longer before you befuddled incorporation of their mythos into
your mythos.
... "This generation" is now about 2,000 years dead. Deal with it.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 11 Jan 97 19:44:26
EID:7d6c 222b9d80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d7ed9a
-> On 10 Jan 97 06:14:53, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Never read that. However, I did read Asimov's short story on Entropy.
AS> Title? Asimov wrote so much...
_Entropy_
... Entropy! "And the computer said, 'let there be light'"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:14:43
EID:c74f 222bb9c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d81ee3
-> On 10 Jan 97 19:24:20, Domino got back to Dan Ceppa
Do> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity that's allowing
Do> anything, that we're allowing everything?
Of course we are. We shape the world around us into what
we want it to be.
Do> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
It may pay lip service to that concept. However, any free will
is oveshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised threats.
... Found God? If nobody claims Him in 30 days, he's YOURS!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:18:31
EID:6329 222bba40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d81fc7
-> On 10 Jan 97 19:44:20, Dave Hamilton got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> And that creep has had at least 2 round trips trips for the "cure".
DC> an admission that the church not only has a problem, it has a major
DC> problem.
DH> they can return to be celibate priests that will counsel folks
DH> on how to best conduct their marriage and family relationships...
Sort of like letting the fox guard the henhouse.
DH> Makes you wonder just how far they'll take it, right out in
DH> the open like that.
This is only one admission that the problem "may" exist. It
doesn't address the fact of the full extent of the problem. If
this is just the tip of the iceberg, there's no telling how
more depraved the priesthood is.
Also, IIRC, there are other xian sects that have at least as
bad of a track record when it comes to those matters.
... Established theology tends to persist despite new technology.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:26:02
EID:0e72 222bbb40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d8218a
-> On 09 Jan 97 22:42:43, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
JB> Dan Ceppa, do you, or do you not, believe that the
JB> Tooth Fairy exists?
DC> That's my personal belief. I decline to answer it.
RC> Marilyn. Brother Jesse always found a way to *refuse* to answer
RC> because the question was *stupid*. Where "stupid" equals anything
OK, his question is stupid!
RC> her beliefs on private matters because -- well, because they're
RC> private. Always seemed like a reasonable attitude to me.
And, my belief in the Tooth Fairy is my own personal business.
Sincerely yours,
Jesse Burge
... "Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning." - Jesse Jones, 9/23/93
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: feed
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:28:52
EID:8ab9 222bbb80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d82234
-> On 10 Jan 97 05:40:56, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I know. I'm the official baker.
AS> Is that why you handle all the ingredients VERY carefully...?
DC> The building inspector is still wondering why my kitchen has
DC> lead-lined walls.
AS> And a bomb shelter, no doubt...
LOL! Funny you should mention that... There's a place across
the Bay that does metal 'welding' by dynamiting the different
metals. They don't do it often, but they usually do it on
my days off and this place shakes!
... Walt Disney never died... He's in suspended animation...
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:30:03
EID:ff39 222bbbc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d8227b
-> On 10 Jan 97 12:30:55, Jim Staal got back to DAVID RICE
DC> What do you call begging money for what you try to pass
DC> off as music?
DR> If Madona and Mick Jagger can do it, why not James?
JS> Good point. I haven't tried pointy bras yet, but, hey, whatever
JS> sells...
Be sure to wear them on top of your pointy little head.
... Dave. My mind. It's going. Just call me Jim Staal.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:33:42
EID:e71e 222bbc20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d82356
-> On 10 Jan 97 07:13:38, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
AS> Asking forgiveness is extortion???
DC> It is when the alternative is an eternity of pain and suffering.
AS> Or an eternity of bliss and happiness.
"Here: Eat this jelly doughnut or I'll kill you."
DC> that only your god is the "one true god". There is no more evidence
DC> for that than there is that Odin, or any other gods exist.
AS> Wellllll....we don't have claims by living witnesses (or even
AS> purported living witnesses) of Odin hanging self-implaed by his own
AS> spear by Yggsdrasil, within historical times. As opposed to even
You don't have independently corroborated claims for your myth, either.
AS> times. Most mythologies are set in a historical neverland. Instead,
we
AS> have a Man, living in a decade that can roughly be dated, yet doing
I told you Saul wasn't a good Judaic scholar. I didn't say he
was stupid.
DC> current cult of the UFO nuts as well as religious fanatics. Does
DC> that make their cult the "one true cult"?
AS> No; but it doesn't disprove it either. And it rather puts a different
If you can't disprove it, why not join?
... "Get used to disappointment." Dread Pirate Roberts
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Re: OMX/BW
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:45:40
EID:0f9b 222bbda0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d82624
-> On 07 Jan 97 18:49:34, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> This a a test of OMX/BW & Terminate
Jd> OMX/BW ?? Is this like a Bluewave capable version of OLX?
Not quite... It's a combination of programs that I use in
order to keep using BW as my OLR.
I'm using Terminate as my point system. It sends/recieves the
mail from my Boss Node. It also packs/unpacks the mail in a
JAM format.
OMX takes the unpacked messages from Terminate and packs
them into a BW message packet for handling by BW. It then
does the reverse so the the messages are handleable again
by Terminate for sending.
Jd> If so, is it available for d/l on the net? OLX (qwk) is my offline
I'm not sure. I got OMX and Terminate via Marilyn's BBS when
I was a point there. Both should be readily available.
Jd> reader of choice, but my current BBS access to Holeysmoke only offers
Jd> Bluewave offline mail, so I'm using WSOMR.
My setup doesn't work with QWK packets. I think PPOINTQWK will
allow you to convert BW packets to QWK, if that's what you need
to do in your case.
Jd> was a xtian, and, on seeing the blasphemous content of my messages,
Jd> began to quietly dump my uploads into oblivion........aren't xtians
Jd> nice fellows?
BION, I've heard of worse stunts being pulled.
Jd> Now on Dave Hamilton's board......aaaahhhhhhh!
Except for some dupe messages, things are running fairly well
for me on Shelby's board. Plus, he's got a local Echo in
there that's as good as HS!
... "Bother," said Pooh, as he was captured by Nazi Smurf commandos.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:47:57
EID:aaca 222bbde0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d826ad
-> On 08 Jan 97 06:24:00, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Carl Pollock <=-
DC> Perhaps he's an "agnostiest", or maybe a "paganiest" or
DC> even a "polythiest".
JB> Or maybe he's just a male human (?) eist.
That would have to be a "humaniest". After all, you missed
the spelling that Carl did of "athiest"!
... Carbon XIV: Revenge of the Covalent Conspiracy!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:56:06
EID:4c7c 222bbf00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32d82896
-> On 10 Jan 97 05:16:27, J.J. Hitt got back to David Worrell
JH> Pair Being called an athiest fundy.
Got my share of them.
JH> Two Pair Song lyrics, Rush Limbaugh, the Bible,
Ditto!
JH> Three of a Kind Getting yet another reply from someone who
JH> has "twitted" you.
Yep!
JH> Strait "You didn't quote my entire booklength
JH> message that I worked so hard on!"
Too high a rank. Name one person that ever replied to Al that
didn't have that happen.
JH> Flush Any paragraph over 2000 words.
See above.
JH> Full House Any comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
That happens to anyone that has conversed with Weins.
JH> Strait Flush Threats and curses. Includes the ever
JH> popular "I'll pray for you."
Good, but too easy to achieve.
JH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
I can beat that by killing BBS's! Care for my current standings
in bringing them to their knees?
JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
JH> too much more time passes.
I suggest: Having any five fundy's calling you a "Not True Atheist"
based on a single or series of posts on a single thread. (I was
going to say having 5 fundys calling each other "True Xians",
but it isn't in the cards.)
... Don't forget your Mr. Christopher medal!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: David Worrell
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: No, really.
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:45:30
EID:a247 222b75a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7a8a2
PID: GED3 2.5
10 Jan 97 18:43, DAVID RICE wrote to AL SCHROEDER:
DR> It is inconceivable (pardon the pun) that women this day
DR> and age would go to a Pagan festival to meet men, let
DR> alone to "have sex." The "sexual revolution" is dead: AIDS
DR> nuked it.
Don't get out much, do you?
Drop by one of your local nightclubs on a Saturday night, then come tell
me the above again.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:58:18
EID:1b09 222b7740
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7aabe
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6DAC4D
PID: GED3 2.5
09 Jan 97 10:26, Judith Bandsma wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
GTP>> HEY LADIES--how many of you have heard David whine
GTP>> about only being able to find stealth Baptists to date.
JB> Actually, Gwenny, I thought that was Rob Burcham.
I'm the one who was "whine"ing about Stealth Baptists.
I never claimed that they were all I could find to date, though.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Millennium Lunacy
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:59:34
EID:8221 222b7760
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7ab1d
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A6CFC27
PID: GED3 2.5
08 Jan 97 11:22, Judith Bandsma wrote to Brian Shreve:
JB> And we might get an extra year of peace if the stupid fundies would
JB> learn to count. There was no year 0. Therefore, the 21st century
JB> doesn't begin until Jan. 1, 2001.
Considering that Jesus didn't die when that damn monk thought he did, the
"millenium" is considerably farther off.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:01:05
EID:d08a 222b7820
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7abf9
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 da0b5456
PID: GED3 2.5
10 Jan 97 21:42, Ed Mills wrote to Fredric Rice:
FR>> Imagine 10,000 caltrops dumped out the back of a pick-up on a
FR>> 10-mile long section of public-land logging road.
EM> I shall, if you'll apprise me of what a caltrop is.
Have you ever played jacks? Imagine a large jack with pointed ends. Notice
how now matter how you throw it down, it always lands with one point sticking
up.
Caltrops were invented to deal with horse cavalry. They also work rather
well against wheeled vehicles.
Oddly enough, I've seen several WWII era tank obstacles that look like caltrops,
although I can't imagine someone throwing out a handful of 30 ton cement
jacks.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:24:20
EID:a2a6 222b7b00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7b0eb
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 fc803779
PID: GED3 2.5
11 Jan 97 03:52, Marilyn Burge wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
DW>> Bullshit again. I simply pointed out that your daughter was
DW>> overweight. Your reaction, your husband's reaction, and
DW>> Marilyn's reaction showed just how truly *uncomfortable* with
DW>> your respective weights all of you are.
MB> Gwen, this is an out-and-out lie, and the lying sack of shit knows
MB> it. I TOLD HIM the reason I spoke up:
Wouldn't it be simpler to just say "IS NOT!"?
MB> it was because he was
MB> ragging on the two of you about something you could do nothing
MB> about.
People can't do anything about their weight? Really?
What planet do you live on?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: 2 CORINTHIANS 9:13
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:30:46
EID:b492 222b7bc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7b29b
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d643c5
PID: GED3 2.5
10 Jan 97 13:20, Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Roger Hunter:
GP> You can. Just accept yourself. Give yourself a talking to, as though
GP> you were giving advice to a friend. If you really can't accept your
GP> weight, change it. If you really can't change it, accept it. It's as
GP> easy as that.
Can't take your own advice, eh?
GP> Well, according to inbred boy, David Worrell, I'm full of shit and
GP> there's no scientific support for my hypothesis.
Have you posted any such support? Until you do, you're full of shit.
Oh, and you might take the time to *clearly* define your "hypothesis." You
will be held to this definition.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Something I missed
|Date: 11 Jan 97 15:53:55
EID:0533 222b7ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7b7ba
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1caf9903
PID: GED3 2.5
06 Jan 97 21:54, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DW>> good men to say nothing. And, what you are doing
DW>> (and did to Brawley) is evil.- Marilyn Burge,
DW>> Caped Crusader for Justice, 30 Dec 96
RC> What did you do THIS thyme?
My "misogynistic" attacks on Gwen, her daughter, and goofy husband.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: All
|Sub: Matt Giwer
|Date: 11 Jan 97 17:40:26
EID:a3ff 222b8d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32d7d0cf
PID: GED3 2.5
Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer? It seems he has acheived noteriety
on the Internet approaching that enjoyed by Steve Winter.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Domino
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 11 Jan 97 23:38:16
EID:71dd 222bbcc0
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2d86aea0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d81ee3
PID: timEd-B11
Dan, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
Do> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity that's allowing
Do> anything, that we're allowing everything?
DC> Of course we are. We shape the world around us into what
DC> we want it to be.
Then stop asking people why their God allows anything.
Do> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free
Do> will.
DC> It may pay lip service to that concept. However, any free
DC> will is oveshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised
DC> threats.
Actually, it never says you *can't*. It says what will happen if you *do*.
You still have free will.
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 03 Jan 97 04:34:00
EID:795d 22232440
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to DAVID
RICE
SQ> Salue, DAVID!
SQ> Saturni dies December 28 1996, Dixit DAVID RICE ad FREDRIC RICE:
>> John Jeanneault
FR>> Is calling for the distruption of a FidoNet echo
FR>> an actionable offence or does the resentful fascist
FR>> Nazi Christian have to actually do it first?
DR> A single call to the offending BBS from Styx would
DR> end the problem. Therefore, why would the fundy bother?
SQ> Perhaps a call to Fido HQ is in order?
It is time to have Al call his family.
... A brain destroyed by religion is no match for reasoning humans.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 03 Jan 97 04:47:06
EID:9339 222325e0
J.J. Hitt, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Crucifixia
666
JH> On Dec 27 13:04 96, Crucifixia 666 of 1:259/528 wrote:
C6> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY
C6> ADDRESSES OF GOOD WiCCA/SATANiC STORES iN OR AROUND THE
C6> TORONTO AREA. OR, iF iS WiCCAN OR SATANiC AND WOULD LiKE TO
C6> CHAT, POST ME BACK......K?
JH> All out of Magick Fuck Me Candles?
He was too chicken to buy the pussy candles.
... Cash, a poor person's credit card.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 03 Jan 97 04:50:12
EID:b01e 22232640
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Steve
Hayes
GtP> Heilsa, Steve!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Steve say to ROBERT:
SH> Steve Hayes is replying to ROBERT CURRY, who wrote to Steve Hayes on
26 Dec
SH> 96 02:00:01:
SH>> Because you ask questions like a Gestapo interrogator...
RC>>
RC>> Hardly. She made a perfectly reasonable inquiry. It's silly for
RC>> you to demand that she answer your question about "sponge cats"
RC>> (whatever those might be) before you explain what you mean by
RC>> the phrase. So just what are sponge cats? Hmmm?
SH> Gestapo interrogators usually have reasons for the questions they ask
too.
GtP> Answer the question, what are sponge cats?
My guess is that they're like chamois dogs and work at car
washes.
... Eateth not of the pteridophytes, lest thou shalt surely pass spores.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 07 Jan 97 13:17:23
EID:f9c7 22276a20
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
AS> But people are rarely shot by Uzis.
ML> Not according to my, and the DEA's, statistics.
AS> Oh? You surprise me. What weapon is most used in violent deaths?
According to the DEA (not inclusive of all homicides, but only
those in the pervue of the DEA) fully automatic weapons (Uzis,
the AK family, Mac's and the like) and semi-automatics (9 and
10 mm, .40 and .45 caliber) are responsible for 78% of DEA
related (i.e., drug-related) homicides.
AS> They are usually hit by the
AS> "Saturday Night Special" type of gun.
ML> Nonsense, Al. A SNS is defined as a "inexpensive, poorly
ML> constructed revolver". Semi-autos and full autos abound more in
ML> the hands of the criminal element than revolvers.
AS>
AS> Is that just professional criminals (repeat offenders, say) or does
AS> that include one-time murders, first bank robberies, etc.? Not
AS> disputing you. Honestly curious.
Quality handguns, particularly foreign imports, have quite well
and true put paid to the old "SNS" line. The availability of
relatively inexpensive and large capacity handguns have sent
cheaply made 6-shot revolvers to that place where all
evolutionary rejects go when natural selection rears it's head.
It's a valid analogy; the SNS was selected against. Not
necessarily a *good* thing, mind you; but a valid representation
of the phenomena.
ML> Seems to have here, and in 3 or 4 other locales which have
ML> enacted similar laws.
AS> Then I should look into it. Anything that works.
ML> That's the way it is; you must take a course and pass the
ML> proficiency test (which, admittedly, even most carbon based
ML> life forms with an IQ exceeding room temperature could - but it
ML> does exclude certain more benighted individuals.)
AS> I was about to say; there should be a lot more stressed on gun safety
AS> and precaustions.
The course consists of (A.) know your weapon (it's really
necessary to de-deify firearms; many people believe them to be
magical), (B.) know the laws and (C.) know yourself. There are
some rather graphic scenes of the results of shootings (it
really didn't bother me, I was an EMT for a while in college
and still an avid hunter...bullets don't merely make one fall
over with a "Oh.."), the shock and horror of what high velocity
bodies impacting living tissue caused more than one person to
leave the course. They stress the times that deadly force can
be used (it's rather amazing, it's nowhere near as restricted
as most believe...particularly in Texas) and the results and
ramifications of using that force.
ML> usually is) misused. Witness computers (which can be a
ML> marvelous teaching aid) in the hands of fundies.
AS>
AS> Yes. A wonderful spreader of information...or MISinformation.
ML> Cast a gander at the Internet and do a Web search for "God".
ML> Simply amazing that these people can operate a computer, much
ML> less exchange gasses autonomically without daily coaching.
AS> Oh, believe me, Marty. I've been looking for "thinking theist" type
AS> sites. There are some, but it's depressing few and far between. That
AS> depressed me, and then I started looking at Atheist sites, and found
AS> dozens that didn't believe in God but believed in crop circles, UFOs
AS> as the cause of everything bad in 20th century history, and idealism
AS> in politicians of at least one party. Depressing altogether. And
AS> then, if you PURPOSELY start looking for the more off-the-wall sites,
AS> it is extremely depressing how much they OUTNUMBER the logical ones...
AS> I don't have as many links on my website as some people do. But
AS> what I have I at least like to connect with and think they have a
AS> valid point to make...with the exception of some of the links on my
HS
AS> page.
AS> I learned my lesson with you, Marty.
ML> That is wise.
AS> I will NEVER
ML> Ah, ah!
AS> (oops, doing it
AS> again...rarely.) make blanket statements to you again.
ML> That's better.
AS>
AS> The Leipzig school of not-making-generalizations.
Enroll now.
AS> After you
AS> alone were able to give me an example of a society without a belief
in
AS> the supernatural or an afterlife.
ML>
ML> Who, BTW, are currently being given the National Geographic
ML> treatment. They find it rather unbelievable that someone is
ML> making such a brouhaha over them. Should be out sometime in
ML> 1998, or so I'm told.
AS>
AS> I'll look for it.
AS> Yes. My mother in law has opened a new business in rural Mississippi.
AS> She's the best shot in the county, and has a shotgun just ready for
AS> anyone who might try anything.
ML> That's the beauty of shotguns; one doesn't need to be a crack
ML> shot and the "ka-chunk, ca-chunk" sound of a slug being jacked
ML> in (a most unmistakeable sound) has, in itself, a great
ML> deterrant value.
AS> Did I tell you about a former preacher of mine who visited a South
AS> American country...where the political regime was a tad
AS> oppressive...who didn't take the elementary precaution of learning a
AS> little Spanish before he went? He took a picture of a soldier
AS> (actually, of the building behind the soldier, but the soldier was in
AS> it) and walked away. The soldier called "Alto!" Not knowing it meant
AS> "stop" my preacher friend kept walking. Then he heard the rifle being
AS> cocked. He didn't need a translator for THAT. He stayed stock still,
AS> as his camera was confiscated. Yes. We did give him Spanish lessons
AS> for the next time he visited down there.
A very novel, though quite effective way, of committing
suicide.
AS> A soldier at war. Doesn't he use his rifle much more than his
AS> revolver?
ML> Depends. In the infantry, a rifle has precisely zero use in
ML> tunnels, buildings (like apartments, where snipers and the like
ML> like to sneak) or other close-quarter situations. As buddy Bob,
ML> the jarhead lawyer (and owner of the deer lease where I
ML> annually harvest venison jerky on the hoof) tells me: "Your
ML> rifle is a tool, your sidearm is your friend". After three
ML> tours in the Nam, I tend to accept what he says about matters
ML> military as truthful.
AS>
AS> Then I will too, and stand corrected.
And you're quite welcome.
AS> I'm not demonizing it. Just suggesting a possible solution.
ML> By casting an almost supernatural aura around the things?
ML> Cripes, Al. They're just machines, in this case, a very
ML> specialized machine. They don't bite, talk back or leap out of
ML> the dark on their own accord and hunt you.
AS> I have one kid who would stay up all night if he could. Another who
AS> often wakes up at 4 am. I have heard some awfully STRANGE sounds in
AS> the middle of the night...let's just say in my particular case, I
AS> sleep a lot better for NOT having a gun in the house, locked up or no.
Ah, ha! A free will choice. Allow others the same courtesy.
AS> The handguns, however, have a greater range than any of them,
ML> Acid can be slipped into the most unusual of situations. In
ML> fact, taking it one step further, I remember a case a few years
ML> back where some high school type swiped KNO3 from the chemistry
ML> lab and spiked a rivals lunch (he thought it was poisonous, in
ML> reality, it's better known as "saltpeter".) There's a
ML> long-distance dedication for you.
AS> True.
AS> and
AS> require little skill to use at a distance. (Unlike knives, although
at
AS> close quarters it might not matter as much....)
ML>
ML> True. Truth be told, I fear an idiot with a straight razor (now
ML> seen making a comeback in local gangs) more than firearms.
AS>
AS> I think it was Dorothy Sayers who had one of his characters get out
AS> of a duel by his choice of weapons..."He didn't like my choice of
AS> weapons. A firearm MIGHT hit someone. A dueling saber usually WILL."
ICBM's at 6.023E+07 paces...
AS> If easily concelable weapons were not available, the kid would have
AS> had to smuggle in a rifle in his wheelchair. Harder to do.
ML> Or make do with something else. There is a law in Texas
ML> (although not heavily enforced) that targets the parents when
ML> such events occur. They prosecute the parent for allowing a gun
ML> to be accessed by a minor (child endangerment) and for the
ML> crime committed with the handgun (as an accessory).
AS>
AS> I'm not sure what the legal standing is here in Tennessee, but I know
AS> the mother who had the permit for the gun originally did, at least,
AS> have to answer some questions before a judge concerning it.
AS> I agree information is the best defense, but I think you are missing
AS> the point (or more likely, I didn't explain it completely.) One kid
AS> brings the gun, hands it to the other kid, who in
AS> turn...accidentally...shoots the third kid. The third kid was across
AS> the room, not even looking in that direction. He never saw it coming.
AS> Even if he had been the most gunaware individual this side of John
AS> Wesley Hardin (the TRUE fastest gun in the west) he couldn't have
AS> stopped it.
ML> So very true, Al. But, you seem to be missing the point as
ML> well. The guns are already there; what you are proposing is
ML> tantamount to slamming the barn door after the lot of the
ML> Equidae have scampered. Just like you can't recall a fired
ML> bullet, you can't unmake all those guns. The guns are already
ML> there, Al, now we must deal with that reality; instead of
ML> wishing that they didn't exist.
AS> But if there were a law against them, there would be a rough decade
AS> or two...and the old ones would fall into disuse, and be unable to be
AS> repaired or replaced...and things would become a lot safer.
Guns don't have all that many moving parts and Al, there are
millions floating around. A well maintained gun will last
generations.
AS> My father's died, and my mother's uninterested in guns, so I was not
AS> aware of Texas' laws about that. (They live/lived in Houston.)
ML>
ML> It's here, enacted for over a year.
AS> Not the sort of thing that interests my mother, although my father
AS> hunted a lot.
AS> Right, and YOU I would trust to use it correctly, as I would trust,
AS> say, my mother-in-law (who would probably enjoy a shooting match with
AS> you) to do so. And my speaking son, although we don't keep weapons at
AS> the house, has learned to use guns at camps under experts.
ML> Again, thank you for evidencing my point that education is the
ML> key.
AS> No problem. Ideally, that is true of EVERYTHING. Yet we still
AS> restrict some things, because like the bumper sticker, idiots happen.
AS> Well, I'm sorry, but I think it fair to say most of say, the gang
AS> fights are between children...in the sense of not legally adults yet.
ML> True, to a point. I've personally been involved with (in an
ML> adversarial position) "children" of 18, 19, and 20 years of age
ML> in gangs. It's not JUST children, Al. It's some very
ML> misbegotten and woebegotten young adults as well.
AS> Yes. Who get sucked into it usually when they are younger. But it's
AS> true that restricting handguns won't stop gangs. They'll just go to
AS> chains or some other offensive weapon.
Then we try to legislate them away? Put some teeth into the
existing laws; don't go around adding more flotsam to the
judaical system.
ML> I'm a mere collector compared to Dave across the street. He
ML> could outfit a country with his collection.
AS>
AS> Good for him! (And arguing against my own position...I suppose one
AS> could make a case that rifles have caused more catastrophic change in
AS> the US. Look at Lee Harvey Oswald and James Earl Ray and what THEY did
AS> with rifles, and the change it made on society...yet I don't want to
AS> ban rifles...)
That'll be (a la the 'slippery slope') next.
AS> THAT's been tried before, too.... Although certainly Northern
AS> Ireland is an exception, I think it fair to say that most European
AS> countries have a lower murder by violence rate than the US.
ML> Does that include Russia? If so, you're dead wrong. gentle smile>
AS> I believe you. It's hard not to think of the USSR as a single,
AS> Eurasian nation anymore. I guess I'm showing my age...
So's your .gif...
AS> No; but it doesn't mean we can't remove an obvious source of danger.
ML>
ML> OK, agreed. How? We've identified the problem, so what's the
ML> solution?
AS> More training...stricter training to gain a gun permit...perhaps
AS> different "levels" of permits, where an easily concealable weapon like
AS> a handgun requires more tests to pass before they get it? Where
AS> education in gun skills determines which guns you can use?
AS> Then we should make owning a firearm a matter of passing a test,
ML> Past tense. What of all those guns already out there? What of
ML> the criminal element that rarely follows teh letter of the law?
AS> The guns will eventually fall into disuse if they were baned
AS> altogether, save those taken or robbed from military installations.
If
AS> we make it a mere matter of education, they will still be in
AS> circulation. As for the criminal element, obviously this will not
AS> affect them greatly, save to compound felonies when caught.
Indeed. Put some teeth into existing laws and enforce them.
That and education will eventually be THE answer.
AS> and
AS> for one to always have to undergo education (similar to driver
AS> education). And I have no problem with that. Although I want the
AS> education to also stress how to SAFELY store guns when not in use.
AS> (I.E., locked, not loaded, etc.)
ML> Education does seem to be the key; that's what I stress in the
ML> gun safety courses I've taught.
AS> Good.
And I continue to do so.
... When I hear someone say they want to save my soul, I reach for my gun.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Reverse peristalsis.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:27:20
EID:a1d8 22269b60
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Dan:
DC>> Then, John, what is "negative drinking"?
ML> Drink a quart of ClanMcVladTheImpaler in 60 seconds and find
ML> out...
GtP> According to a letter in the January National Geographic:
GtP> "Scotch is the most successful spirit in the wold. The value of these
GtP> alcoholic exports in 1993 was more than two billion pounds (3 billion
GtP> US dollars).
Of course it's a leading export (although "deport" is a term
more apt). Who wants that stuff sitting around taking up
valuable shelf space?
GtP> In France, for example, more Scotch is now consumed in a
GtP> month than cognac in a year."
They eat snails and amphibian appendages there as well.
That bespeaks volumes.
... Another lazy day rolls by and yet I hear no reply...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Jimbo's 2-D.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:29:09
EID:034b 22269ba0
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
GtP> Heilsa, Marty!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marty say to Jim:
ML>> Give us time. You've been around for over 40 years and science
ML>> still hasn't figured you out.
JS>> Too deep, eh? :)
ML> Deep as a saucer, sharp as a bagel.
GtP> Well, bagel cuts are taking over as the number one injury seen in ERs.
Y'know...somehow it's poetically justifiable that Jimbo is
suffering from multiple bagel lacerations.
... 26th Rule of Creationism: Cite the ICR, but not that 'ministry' stuff.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:30:19
EID:15c2 22269bc0
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
-> On 02 Jan 97 14:36:07, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> SM>>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
ML> JH>>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
ML> DC>>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
DC> [..] <-- don't worry! Archived under G-G.PUN
ML> GEOPHYSICISTS! GEOPHYSICISTS! BOUGER HIM!
CJ> GYNECOLOGISTS! GYNECOLOGISTS! EXAM--er, never mind.
ML> GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
DC> GOYHIM! GOYHIM! CIRCUMCISE HIM!
ML> GYPSUM! GYPSUM! PLASTER HIM!
DC> GRASS! GRASS! SMOKE'M!
GAROU! GAROU! MOON HIM!
DC> BTW, I think your's would be better if you said, "PLANT HIM!"
ML> Ahhh, who astcha?
DC> You didn't, at least not quick enough!
Then I won't do it again...
... 30 minutes from now this will all seem like a half-hour ago.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: You think you have it rough?
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:31:35
EID:b9c6 22269be0
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
-> On 02 Jan 97 14:23:40, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> the nearest beer emporium is only 2 miles through 2 1/2 feet of
DC> snow, or I'd be in big trouble!
ML> both ways, to get to a liquor store to buy beer. And one time
ML> they were all sold out of the good stuff and only had scotch!
DC> My word! How did you survive such an ordeal?
Barely. But I found my clothes the next day...
DC> You must be
DC> scarred for life. Here, take this burbon and call me in
DC> the morning for further counselling...
I only accept free will gifts of 80, 90 and 101 proof.
... I am Ceppa of Borg...Prepare to character assassinate!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: fundy clown
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:32:50
EID:4eb5 22269c00
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
-> On 02 Jan 97 14:34:56, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> Damn, by that standard, Staal's a fucking tycoon.
DC> Marty, you mispelled 'buffoon'.
ML> Followed immediately thereafter by "poltroon".
DC> All of which the "erudite" one would need to look up in his
DC> dictionary. Too bad it's leveling his trailer.
ML> It's not leveled, it just *looks* that way.
DC> So, the State of Michigan was correct in it's assessment as
DC> being a toxic waste disposal site...
And so's his "house".
... A fool must now and then be right by chance - William Cowper 1782
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Reverse peristalsis.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:33:20
EID:576f 22269c20
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
-> On 02 Jan 97 14:04:51, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Then, John, what is "negative drinking"?
ML> Drink a quart of ClanMcVladTheImpaler in 60 seconds and find
ML> out...
DC> That's _undrinking_!
At lightspeed.
... Vodka + milk of magnesia: Philips screwdriver
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Now you're getting nasty.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:33:57
EID:9e90 22269c20
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>> Scientific inquiry always rates over mythology.
ML> Although it's easier to get published when dealing with
ML> mythology; no peer review process in house organs.
MG> Which is why National Enquirer sells so much better at checkout stands
MG> tha the Journal of Immunology.
The JOI is simply overpriced.
MG>> Diet Coke or Koolaide....Which for you?
ML> You, Herr Doc, have a mean streak a lightyear wide.
MG> Houston water not very good, is it?
Worse than lochwater. We have to deal with herds of itinerant
Scots wanting to use it to set up a new distillery...
...in Baytown.
... I'm the One, True cheez, you will have no false cheezus before you!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Lost Scotch Drinker...No Reward Offered.
|Date: 10 Jan 97 20:45:54
EID:55e6 222aa5a0
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> At least bourbon labels don't have pictures of Immunologists
ML> them stating "Have you seen me?"
MG> No, but bottles of bourbon are required to have "Joe Bazooka" comics
MG> with them in order to sell any bottles.
That's a bonus...unlike the "Redeem 5 scotch labels for a case
of cirrhosis" ad campaign for your favorite ClanMcWhatever.
... "A double Rock-n-Rye and seven Carlings, please." - Boon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Casa de Glodbreg.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 19:36:51
EID:9ec4 22269c80
Martin Goldberg, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
MG>>> I'm certain that we can get the dog to cook up a
MG>>> quick batch of Kentucky's Finest for you.
ML>> You mean he's filled all his ClanMcWoof orders for the
ML>> month?
MG>> You bet. He didn't get any. Again.
ML> That's why you had him neutered.
MG> And now he can't make bourbon any longer.
He's a purebred scotch producer.
... Don't be sexist. Broads hate that.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 06 Jan 97 21:42:18
EID:c7a6 2226ad40
Andrew Masten, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Andrew Masten <=-
ML> I trust you have evidence for this "soul" thing which you grant
ML> all these wonderful attributes?
AM>
AM> There is a great deal of evidence for the soul.
ML> Any extra-Biblically?
AM>
AM> Thats clever,
ML> Well, *someone* in this dialogue has to be.
AM> inserting this statement between a paragraph I've
AM> already written.
ML> Does that annoy you? Does it piss you off? Does it make you
ML> angry?
ML> Good.
AM>
AM> I just mistakenly thought you were smarter than that.
Yep. You are mistaken. About that and a great many other
things.
AM> Is there a level you won't stoop to?
ML> Yes, your level of inculcated ignorance.
AM>
AM> The post is young yet.
So are your debating tactics.
AM> According to
AM> biblical doctrine
ML> Didn't think so. Andrew, according to the Bible, bats are
ML> birds. It's not the most error-free nor conclusive reference,
ML> you know.
AM> humans are a tri-part being. Spirit, soul and
AM> body. The soul is our mind and emotions.
ML> Humans are but a sentient animal; of which the cognitive
ML> portion of the brain gives rise to the mind and emotions.
AM> The terms soul and heart
AM> are interchangable in the bible.
ML> Odd, I've never heard of anyone checking into the ER for a
ML> "soul attack" or of anyone needing a "soul transplant".
AM>
AM> I know your prone to say stupid things,
ML> And you're prone to making idiotic observations and not knowing
ML> the proper contraction for "you are".
AM> but must you act like its
AM> a virtue?
Indeed. Why do you do it so?
ML> "Speak wisdom to a fool and they call it foolishness." Pearls
ML> before swine, Andy. Be careful, you'll slip and pratfall on
ML> them again.
AM>
AM> Oh brother an atheist that quotes scripture.
Yessir. Hello, Andy. It's your favorite nightmare. Which
chapter and verse is it tonight?
AM> This should not be surprising since there is little of
AM> Christianity you fathom.
ML> Apart from the fact that you glorify ignorance, revel in
ML> impossibilities and lack the intestinal fortitude to face life
ML> with several cosmic crutches;
AM> I assume you meant without cosmic crutches.
Ah, ha. You *are* awake then. Your eyes aren't just painted on.
AM> Atheists often do a
AM> good job of using philosophy and science as a crutch to avoid
AM> theological possibilities.
Not at all, Andy. One does not need crutches to avoid that
which does not exist. Philosophy (somewhat) and science are
merely tools to plumb the depths of reality and avoid soaking
one's soles in the morass of theology.
ML> the remainder of Christianity is
ML> just so much glitz and frippery. One need not be concerned with
ML> its gold-leaf covering when one knows the fetid garbage it
ML> covers.
AM>
AM> You call it garbage, but this country is suffering from a
AM> spiritual void.
We're also suffering form a lack of hyperintelligent shades of
blue. How we're suffering is still a great question of
debate...
...for those without a clue.
AM> I'm not appealing to anything supernatural.
Odd. Care to cite all that evidence you've got for this
"spiritual void" we're all spiraling into?
AM> Just
AM> compare how people are today from 40 years ago. Is this the age of
AM> scientific enlightenment, peace and harmony?
Sure seems that way; with the lack of smallpox, lack of people
dying in great herds from dental caries, the dissolution and
establishment of trade with countries of the CIS (Hi!
Siberia!), the reduction and progressive steps towards the
reduction and final destruction of large quantities of ICBM's,
et al, ad infinitum.
Although there is this "ethnic cleansing" and "religious
persecution" (Ever been to Ulster, Andy?) thing we still need to
eradicate.
AM> If we extrapolate,
AM> where will this country be 50 years from now?
In the year 2047.
AM> Your so concerned about the spread of Christianity. What about the
AM> advance in occultism and new age mysticism?
Ohhh...that's a *bad* thing too. At least Wiccans don't go
around sticking 12 gauges in your ear if you disagree with
them.
AM> Which would lead you
AM> more horrified, to find one of your children being a satanist or a
AM> Christian?
A cult by any name is still as repugnant.
AM> Your so concerned about Christianity, yet our children
AM> are being inculcated daily with occultism.
That's why my children are educated in the classic studies and
learn to eschew supernaturalism and inculcated ignorance no
matter what it's name; be it Satanism, Scientology or
Christianity.
ML> I fathom more than you could ever comprehend. In fact, I scored
ML> straight 4.0's in Abnormal Psychology.
AM>
AM> And you reply on this echo during your weekend furloughs?
ML> Hardly, Andy; I've been out of college for over 15 years. I,
ML> unlike some of your benighted brethren, actually have a life and
ML> live it to the fullest. Although most of them I see here have
ML> real futures as Case Histories.
AM>
AM> Lighten up Marty, it was just a joke.
Is that what it was? It appeared to be more of a stillbirth.
AM> Willfully conforming yourself to the image of God, is not losing
AM> your free will.
ML> If done only to garner cosmic brownie points and supplicate
ML> before your deity, it sure SOUNDS like an abrogation of free
ML> will.
AM>
AM> Marty, you know little about Christian doctrine beyond your
AM> preconcieved notions and stereo types.
ML> How unfortunate for you and you misbegotten ilk that they're
ML> dead on correct.
AM>
AM> I don't doubt some are correct, but garnering cosmic brownie points
AM> is in error.
Then WHY do you do (as Jesse (Run away! Run Away!) Jones so
inaptly notes) "good things"? Pure altruism?
Pshaw.
You do it because your religious inculcation DEMANDS that you
do. Why? So you will earn your seat in heaven, Nirvana or
whatever you call you afterlific reward. Face it, Andy. You
DON'T do it out of the "goodness of your heart". You expect
*some* sort of reward.
AM> And I don't have time to
AM> inform you.
ML> A fine example of the
ML> buck-and-wing fundy shuffle.
ML> Another charlatan for Christ.
AM>
AM> Am I to believe you want me to teach you Christian doctrine?
Hardly. But I do expect you to at least to *try* (however
vainly) to defend your beliefs.
Odd that you cannot or do not.
AM> What you fail to recognize is everyone is
AM> conforming to some image.
ML> Everyone? Mighty broad brush there, Andy. I do so hope you have
ML> evidence to back up this ludicrous claim.
AM> Whatever type of diet you nourish your
AM> brain on is the image you are inexorably being conformed into.
ML> Low fat, high fiber is simply a diet; not an image I conform to.
AM>
AM> Since science is your God, I would think thats the image you
AM> conform to.
ML> Great! Does that mean I get Sagan's birthday off as a holiday?
ML> Can I declare tax-exempt status for my lab? Hot damn!
AM> Do you deny that this country was founded by people deeply commited
AM> to Judeo-Christian thought?
I deny that this is a Christian country founded on
Judeo-Christian beliefs. You have yet to supply *any* evidence
otherwise.
AM> This country rose to prominience in
AM> record time on what you believe to be a failed philosophy of
AM> ignorance. How do you account for this enigma?
Mass delusion explains much. That you're dead wrong explains
the remainder.
ML> Science as God? Hardly? Science invites inquiry. Your Gods die
ML> from that activity.
AM>
AM> Yes, I retract that statement. Science isn't your God, but
AM> scientism is a philosophy you cling to.
Care to supply any hymns we sing?
RS> Christianity is the brainwashing of the feeble into something to
RS> place hope in when all hope is gone.
AM>
AM> You have just fallen for a silly stereo type. How many wealthy and
AM> sucessful football, basketball and baseball players have you seen
AM> that are devout christians?
ML> At least a few. How many of the US's prison populace are
ML> Christians?
ML> Answer the question, Andy.
AM>
AM> I haven't the slightest idea. Does being in prison make one
AM> feeble.
Answer the question, Andy.
AM> Do you think Reggie White is feeble and
AM> brainwashed?
ML> Quite probably; but I reserve comment until he himself makes
ML> his own proclamations.
AM> Or how about Evander Holyfield? Care to step in the
AM> ring since he's so feeble?
ML> Not particularly. I never liked boxing, I prefer wrestling and
ML> Judo.
ML> Still, it is amazing that you feel that it's such a gift from God
ML> to be able to make a living pummeling others.
AM>
AM> No, this is just your feeble attempt at obscuring the issue.
ML> How? You're the idiot that starting holding up sports figures
ML> as exemplars of your nonsensical faith.
AM>
AM> Against the charge of Christians being feeble and brainwashed
AM> yes.
Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker suggest (rather strongly)
otherwise.
ML> We know full well what causes religiousity, and we do have the
ML> antidote; although the afflicted so oftimes refuse the cure.
AM>
AM> I'd like your version of what causes 'religiousity' Marty.
ML> Unquestioned belief, Orwellian "doublethink", deliberate
ML> ignorance and fear. In any combination.
AM>
AM> I've questioned my beliefs on many occasions.
ML> Try doing so without your Biblical blinders.
AM> But I can't escape
AM> the conclusion that we are here by design.
ML> There's this chap named David Hume you should read about some
ML> time.
AM>
AM> You should read from a fellow named J.L. Mackie. An atheist who
AM> saw a flaw in Hume's argument.
So he did. He was wrong. I can supply myriad reasons why Mackie
was wrong. Care to refute them one by one?
AM> "There is only one actual universe, with a unique set of basic
AM> materials and physical constants, and it is therefore surprising
AM> that the elements of this unique setup are just right for life
AM> when they might easily have been wrong. This is not made less
AM> surprising by the fact that if it had not been so, no one would
AM> have been here to be surprised. We can properly envisage and
AM> consider alternative possibilities which do not include our being
AM> there to experience them.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Cart before the horse. *Yawn*
Timeworn and tried argument. Is that all you have to offer?
ML> Isn't is about time you registered that thing, Andy. Theft is
ML> against your one of your Ten Commandments, isn't it?
AM> Yes and yes.
So why don't you?
... Evolution may be "just a theory", but creationism is just bullshit.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Anthropic asininities.
|Date: 10 Jan 97 20:48:28
EID:7290 222aa600
Andrew Masten, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> Even if I wanted to bag the whole thing, I could never deny that
AM> God exists.
ML> Why not? A lack of vertebrae or mental horsepower?
ML> Answer the question, oh gut-less one.
AM>
AM> Have you quit beating your wife? Answer that.
Unnecessary, as it's obviously a "red herring" retort. I do not
beat my wife; therefore, it's an inane inquiry. Do you keep
worshiping a killer God? Why or why not? Is your daughter
*still* deaf?
AM> Its not a matter if I believe or think there is a God,
AM> I know there is.
ML> You believe there is; which is a damn sight different than
ML> knowing.
AM> No, I know there is. You believe there isn't. Thats the difference.
ML> Wrong yet again, Andrew. I know that there is ZERO evidence for
ML> said God. You still believe that there is a God, evidence
ML> notwithstanding.
AM> There is plenty of evidence that suggests were here by design.
ML> Such as? Some time and shopworn anthropic argument? Or just
ML> another in your long lists of arguments from your ignorance?
AM>
AM> There are at least 23 constants needed for our existence. Some of
AM> those are needed for any life at all. The expansion rate of the
AM> universe must be fine-tuned to within one part to 10exp55.
The argument from ignorance yet again. You cannot or will not
accept the constants of the universe; and yet assign them to
an omnibevelovent, yet immensely uncaring, God.
And you call your belief "religion".
Curious.
AM> You
AM> reject all of it on a philisophical presupposition that there is no
AM> God, or creator.
ML> Nope. As I do not consider a God(s), angels, sprites, pixies or
ML> invisible pink hippos when I set up and run an experiment; why
ML> should I consider that when constructing a gedankenexperiment
ML> concerning the universe?
AM> No one is suggesting you should consider God angels, sprites or
AM> pixies in a experiment.
Well, so much for your supernatural constructs.
AM> But when examining a phenomena, like the
AM> placement of rocks in a field, there is nothing unscientific about
AM> considering whether those rocks were placed by design or natural
AM> forces.
There isn't? Bull fucking pshaw! Ancient civilizations didn't
know what caused lightning. Therefore God did it. Ancient
civilizations didn't know what caused sandstorms. Therefore God
did it.
One can only imagine what you believe causes profound deafness.
ML> Science does not require nor desire any supernatural anything;
ML> it has no need of any "God Hypothesis". I am no different.
AM>
AM> The idea that science must explain via natural law, is a
AM> philisophical statement, not a scientific evaluation.
One that is tried, tested and trued through observation,
experimentation and analysis. Sorry, Andy, your supernatural
strikes out on all three counts.
AM> As a result, you inbrace any theories, no matter how
AM> bizzare or esoteric.
ML> I do not "inbrace" anything; but you must do a load of
ML> in-bracing to shore up that inane belief set of yours.
ML> I do not "not believe", I think the fact that there is no
ML> evidence is more Ockhamically logical than to ignore that fact
ML> and believe not withstanding.
AM> Is God or a designer or a creator impossible? Or possible?
ML> "Nothing impossible exists." That takes care of question #1.
AM> I don't know what question that answers. If your saying God is
AM> impossible, then on what basis are you making that claim?
"Nothing impossible exists" is rather straight forward and
concise. Which word confuses you?
ML> Possible? As "God" is a supernatural construct, and, by
ML> definition, the supernatural is totally unevidenced; and,
AM> Whose definition? And is that definition a scientific one or
AM> philisophical? By my definition the supernatural is above the
AM> natural and created the natural.
"Your definition"? Perhaps amenable to your definition; but
hardly a useful scientific construct.
AM> I don't know what notion you subscribe to, but many scientists say
AM> that time and natural laws didn't come into being until a fraction
AM> of a second after the big bang. Unless the big bang was an uncaused
AM> event, the cause of such an event was beyond time and natural laws.
So? As if that has anything to do with what is currently being
discussed.
ML> again by definition, only that which is natural (i.e., exists)
ML> leaves evidence; the answer is self-evident. No evidence or
ML> impossible for it to be evidenced. Therefore, nonexistent.
AM>
AM> Again Marty, this is just a philisophical definition you have
AM> construed. By the way, by your definition, nuetrinos are
AM> non-existant since they leave no evidence.
Wrong again, Andy. Neutrinos are evidenced by experimentation.
Perhaps you should read up on what you're trying, however
vainly, to attack.
AM> I don't think its impossible that the universe exploded out of a
AM> singularity at just the right velocity so galaxies and solar
AM> systems formed.
ML> Why not? That's exactly what happened.
AM> As I said, I don't think its impossible, its what caused this event
AM> that we differ.
You have to assign the event to some unevidenced supernatural.
Ockham's razor decapitates you.
ML> It amazes me that you can so readily accept, believe in and
ML> discard your life to something that is illusory, completely
ML> lacking in evidence and requires such great leaps of illogic
ML> and internal inconsistency to accept rather than the real, cold
ML> hard physical facts of the universe.
ML> Belief. It is such an illogical construct; cherished by the
ML> incognizant.
AM> You posit belief systems when it furthers your argument.
I believe nothing. I prefer to think.
AM> And then atoms out of this birth would conspire to
AM> assemble themselves, ultimatlely into sentinent beings.
ML> Ahh, stuff your anthropomorphisism where the stellar masses do
ML> not fuse. Atoms do not conspire, only duplicitous empty-headed
ML> schmucks do; to shore up their faulty and frivolously capricious
ML> belief systems.
AM>
AM> Stuff your belief system that says mechanistic forces alone
AM> suffice to turn random matter into complicated sentinent beings.
A. There is nothing other than mechanistic forces in a natural
universe. Provide evidence otherwise.
B. Matter is not "random", but quite ordered by the laws of
chemistry and physics.
C. "Complicated sentient beings" is subjective. Such as you.
AM> Nor, do I
AM> think its impossible for what appears to be by design, to be by
AM> design. Why do you?
ML> Because it's totally unevidenced and the laser edge of the
ML> Razor of Ockham points to a way much less fanciful and much
ML> more plausible (and evidenced) explanation. Big Bang cosmology
ML> needs exactly less than 1 miracle or supernatural intervention to
ML> have happened. That alone puts it gigalightyears ahead of your
ML> Cosmic Designer (if one my so denigrate the term) "argument".
AM> Lets see if I have this right.
That would be a first.
AM> You claim your notions are
AM> scientifically based.
Absolutely. And amply evidenced.
AM> You denigrate any belief systems as frivolous
AM> and capricious.
Wow, Andy, you're on a roll. 2 in a row!
AM> Yet in the previous post you drop Hume's name,
No, I did not "drop" Hume's name; I used Hume and his reasoning
(so well thought out in the late 1800's) to demolish your
contention.
AM> a
AM> philosopher and now Ockham a philosopher-theologian. Lets see who
AM> this fellow is your so proud of.
AM> William of Occam, or Ockham, b. Ockham, England, c.1285, d. c.1349,
AM> ranks among the most important philosopher-theologians of the Middle
AM> Ages.
[huge snip of wasted bandwidth]
AM> Get a load of this.
We already have a load of you, everytime you post.
AM> Here you are an atheist promoting a theist in
AM> furthering your supposedly scientific reasons for not believing in
AM> God.
Fuckin'-A, ironic; ain't it?
AM> Considering you think anyone who believes in God is an ignorant
AM> idiot
And a point amply demonstrated by some in this very echo.
AM> its amazing you would use a theists argument to further your
AM> own.
Well, why not? Even, according to your Big Book of Fairy Tales,
Satan quotes scripture. When I find something useful, I do
not disregard it out of hand just because the person has some
sort of spiritual crutch. Ockham may have been a theist; but he
was a fairly clear thinker when he left that little illusory
world and landed in reality.
In fact, he's a person more of you fundies should emulate.
AM> I think perhaps you are a charlatan.
I know you're a fundy goof.
... "From the author of the best selling horror novel, "The Bible"...."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading incomprehensi
|Date: 07 Jan 97 13:26:15
EID:6d26 22276b40
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Curtis
Johnson
DM> Curtis Johnson said "READING INCOMPREHENSI" to Nate Cookson, adding:
DC>> Try using a spell checker. You are embarrassing yourself in
DC>> an international echo.
NC> You actually take this echo serious enough to use a spell
NC> checker!! You are are a sick puppy then aren't you!
CJ> You mean you don't take your cause seriously enough to make
CJ> it appear that it's supported by intellectually competent people?
DM> Darn! Wish I'd said that!
You will, Herr Martin, you will...
... And lo, the Christians slew the Sulfites at the Salad Bar.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 07 Jan 97 13:35:26
EID:2c99 22276c60
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to ROBERT
CURRY
CJ>> Tidal lock doesn't happen overnight; life could conceivably
CJ>> adapt.
AS>> I don't think adaption will work.
RC> How would you know?
AS> Because one side would be so cold as to have liquid helium,
RC> BEFORE tidal lock occurs? Well, no wonder Curtis soon became
RC> fed up trying to talk sense with you on these matters, as
RC> you don't bother reading his statements with actual comprehension.
RC>
RC> So do you know that adaptation could not occur, Al?
AS> Well, let's see now. The Earth has been in existence for roughly five
AS> billion years, life only (more or less) a billion.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Al, did I tell you that you're wrong?
The age of the Earth is 4.68 BY (5 BY is close enough), BUT
life on Earth has been around for over 3.5 BY (1 BY is NOT
close enough). Bioinformational macromolecules (prokaryotes)
are amply evidenced in the Archean; indeed, they are
sufficiently advanced that although so far unfound, precursor
preprokaryotes probably arose some 3.8-4BYA.
So there.
... A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, or was it here?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 07 Jan 97 13:43:22
EID:6d3f 22276d60
Don Martin, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Lynda
Bustilloz
DM> Lynda Bustilloz said "My Summer Weekend" to Rod Swift, adding:
DC> No, dickhead. I'm tired your fucking whining.
DM>
RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan. :) :)
RS> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
RS> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....
LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!
DM>
DM> For the mozarella part, no.
And for that, God, edamed'em to hell...
... 10E-ì sign of the least
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:09:30
EID:facc 22277120
Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
iJcJ> I will pray for your souls.
FR> Help me, Marty! I'm scared.
ml> Quakering in your boots, no doubt.
FR> None.
I'm amishmazed.
ml> Why not trill instead? Hell, any idiot can pray.
FR> He sang for us long enough... He'll sing for us again.
ml> He's done his swansong. Brave Sir Jesse ran away.
FR> I doubt that. He's ran away before and when he came back and had his
FR> nose rubbed in it, he simply demanded that he didn't claim he was
FR> staying away for good.
Like a bad check...or Czech.
... And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:11:03
EID:7b6c 22277160
Fredric Rice, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
Ceppa
FR> You're sick, dear. You need an exit councelor.
dc> I hear that Dr Kavorkian has volunteered his services.
FR> Now _that's_ a good exit!
Let's hold an echothon to buy a Dr. K gift certificate.
... Carpolite...Said of a courteous driver.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Kelsey Bjarnason
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:16:26
EID:2a65 22277200
Kelsey Bjarnason, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to
Jim Staal
DR> #1) "Belief" in evolution is irrelivent: it is an
DR> observed fact, not subject to "belief."
JS> Show me the 'observation' where man appeared.
KB> Not necessary to demonstrate that evolution occurs.
Have him drag his sorry ass to a museum and see the evidence
first hand.
... Say, you sure are drinking a lot.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mine's bigger, damn you!
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:18:06
EID:99e1 22277240
Steve Quarrella, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Fredric
Rice
sq>> BTW, I have posted twice lately in R_CATHOLIC. I
sq>> wonder if Stringfellow knows he's being observed.
SQ> He's using the old "My bossnode went down" excuse again. :)
Went to the deer camp this weekend and stopped off in
Castroville for gas and supplies. Odd. The RevRonnie
Trailer-O-God ain't there no more.
Did the good Castrovillians give the Rev the old heave-ho?
... "I don't think I can hold 'em! Drop the pizzas and run for your life!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Nate Cookson
|Sub: It's true! You're a schmuck!
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:19:45
EID:1766 22277260
Nate Cookson, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> Nate Cookson, bereft (missing the last plane out of
ML> Tokyo), said to Martin Goldberg
NC> greetings Mr Martian!
MG>> You are a fucking moron.
MG> YOu are a fucking moron.
NC> Tsk, Tsk... Some more of that "Higher Education" stuff showing
NC> through!
ML> It doesn't require an LLD to state the incredibly obvious.
ML> You are a fucking moron; and a prosaic one as well.
NC> More evidence of what higher education can do to ones brain.....
With your brace of obviously non-functioning neurons, just who
turns the computer on for you?
... "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:24:56
EID:f3f4 22277300
Sue Armstrong, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
>>> Part 1 of 2...
SA> Making a good die roll, Marty Leipzig cast MIRACLE at Al Schroeder ..
SA> and all hell broke loose.
AS> The miracle is that any of us talk at all. There are at least two
AS> hundred and fifty thousand separate species of animal in the world.
ML> Umm, Al. You're quite wrong again. A conservative estimate of
ML> species of the Kingdom Animalia is over 10 million; although
ML> most are insects.
SA> About right, though some writers suspect as high
SA> as 100 million.
Ah, so you're a splitter. I tend to be a lumper.
AS> At least two thousand eight hundred and fifty are mammals like men.
AS> (I'm using an old reference book, and suspect that those numbers have
AS> swelled since then.)
ML> "...mammals like men..."? Show me a bipedal cetacean, Al.
SA>
SA> I think he meant "mammals, as are men".
He may have *meant* that, but I take people for what they
actually wrote.
AS> There are some that communicate. Ants do. Bees do. But they are
AS> stuck with the same language that their remote ancestors use.
ML> Whoa-ho! When you're wrong, Al, you really pull out all the
ML> stops.
SA>
SA> Al, bees have, at least, different dialects across geological
SA> regions.
Geographic ones as well.
SA> An African honeybee won't understand the dance of a
SA> European honeybee of the same species.
Now hold on there. I remember where (Burstall, 1969) bees from
different areas (all _Apis domesticus_) were introduced to
different hives. Most were killed or driven out outright, but
some, after showing (through dance) a way to food, were
incorporated into the collective. (Gad...Borg Bees...)
AS> They
AS> don't coin new words. They are imbred in their genes.
ML> Baloney and other lunch meats! The dance of _Apis domesticus_
ML> (deciphered by Strongwall in 1958) has been observed to be an
ML> evolving form of communication when environmental flux occurs.
ML> This flux is entirely synthetic (i.e., man-made) and yet the
ML> bees quickly developed new forms of communicating to others of
ML> the hive this development.
ML> And that's just one of the social insects. Sheesh, Al, your
ML> anthropic chauvinism is really in full bloom today.
AS> Chimps can be
AS> taught sign language...but again, they don't coin new words.
But they do coin new phrases. "Apple", to Lucy (one of the
chimps at the Yerkes Language lab) was dubbed "round new fruit"
(she had never seen one before). Her handler, after pulling a
jape on Lucy, was called "you green shit".
ML> So? When is "coining new words" a linguistic benchmark?
SA> Actually, chimps DO coin new words in sign. If they want to make
SA> note of something, but haven't been taught the "proper" word for it,
SA> they'll make a sign of their own. And even after 20 or 30 years of
SA> field study, we still know very little about the natural signs that
SA> chimps in the wild use amongst each other.
Jane Goodall made great strides in animal ethology studying
just that phenomenon. The Gombe chimps were remarkably
resilient in adapting, and naming, new entities into their
world.
AS> There are
AS> no different "languages" developed, as different as French is from
AS> Spanish, for instance.
ML> Ever hear of Esperanto, Al? Ever hear of Ur-Mongolian (a
ML> classic study of an endemic language if there ever was one)?
SA>
SA> I think he was referring to other species.
How many ocelots speak French?
SA> At best, I can simply
SA> say "We really don't know". Not enough research has been done on
SA> animal communication to say whether dialects actually exist within
SA> species, except for bees.
We know that most social insects are "dialectic"; primates
certainly are.
SA> However, researchers HAVE noted that prarie dogs developed a whistle
SA> for humans de novo, when they hadn't used it before but started to
SA> become alarmed at human activity around their towns. They already
SA> had specific whistles (and responses) for snakes, coyotes and other
SA> creatures. Certain monkeys also have specific calls for leopards,
SA> snakes and raptors, respectively, and have been observed to lie
SA> about the presence of leopards in order to steal goodies after
SA> everyone else shimmied up trees to avoid the "leopard". (With the
SA> snake call, they simply stand on tiptoe and look around; with the
SA> bird warning, they hide beneath the undergrowth.)
Again, an example of Weinbergian dynamics (or was it
Heisenberg?). One cannot observe a phenomena without altering
it.
AS> There is some question about cetacians. No one really knows. We
AS> speculate that some of them, like whales and dolphins, might have
AS> languages, but as of yet we have not cracked the "code". If they are,
AS> then they are too, very miraculous compared to the bulk of animalkind.
ML> More lunchmeat! There are forms of animal communication that
ML> make even this method (electronic) pale by comparison. Got a
ML> week or two (I studied vertebrate ethology for a while...most
ML> fascinating) for a dissertation or three?
SA> I'd love to see it. :)
Don't get me started...
SA> As for whales, they seem to communicate pretty well over long
SA> distances, using thermally-varied layers of water. Unfortunately,
SA> artificial ocean noise (ship propellors) have disrupted this form of
SA> communication.)
They still do quite well with the old "telephone" system; one
sings (humpbacks in this case) and another, quite distant
(100's of kms) picks it up, and repeats it; although not
"verbatim". He (only males sing) adds his own 2 cents worth.
SA> Elephants also communicate over long distances subsonically. This
SA> wasn't discovered until a researcher noticed a thrumming in the air
SA> as she studied elephants at a zoo; she then turned on a recorder,
SA> and played it back at a faster speed, revealing the sound. So far,
SA> all anyone knows for sure is that they are able to co-ordinate herd
SA> movements over long distances this way (it had been a mystery
SA> previously as to how they COULD co-ordinate as observed.)
Strangely enough, so do alligators.
SA> Again, we simply know too little to say for sure one way or another;
SA> and linguists, being human, are known to fiddle with the definition
SA> of "language" in order to KEEP the concept entirely human.
Just like "tool making"...
AS> If not, we are unique in the biosphere of earth.
ML> Right. Remember, Al, you are unique; just like everyone else.
SA>
SA> Man is unique - as are all species. Everyone's just unique in a
SA> different way.
But some are so bizarrely unique.
AS> Each one of us are a miracle. Each one of us defy the rule that is
AS> common throughout biology. It's not a matter of intelligence. In
AS> nonverbal tasks, my autistic children scored as high as any. But the
AS> miracle is that ANY of us can coin a new word, or split off into a new
AS> language. It is the difference of Man...and the difference it makes.
ML> I am offended by your anthropochauvinism, Al. Let's see you
ML> communicate by perturbations in a self-generated standing
ML> electrical field (electric eels and catfish do); let's see you
ML> communicate by pheromones (as do a host of animals)...ad
ML> infinitum.
ML> "...coining words..." Big deal.
SA>
SA> Indeed. I've wondered if using words is really all that efficient.
SA> If you can get concepts and information through via a packet of
SA> smells, that's probably at least just as efficient as spending an
SA> hour describing something verbally.
Ever read "Raptor Red" by my good friend and co-whacko Bob
Bakker? He tells the story of the first "information
superhighway"; one of shit.
It's a bit off-center, but the metaphor is quite real.
SA> No, it might not last as long
SA> as writing, but as we all know, even the written word isn't
SA> necessarily forever. How many books have been utterly lost
SA> throughout human history?
Thanks to the Caliph of Alexandria (and other book-burning
bigots) far too many.
SA> Our noses are simply too weak to utilise scents (as is the case with
SA> most other primates), and speech probably simply arose from the
SA> usual screeches and grunts apes use. After all, if you listen to
SA> someone speak quickly in a language completely foreign to you, it
SA> doesn't sound like much else than monkey-chatter.
Hence the term "barbarism".
AS> Is it too commonplace a miracle for you? So sorry.
ML> Sounds like your miracles certainly require a shitload of human
ML> intervention, Al.
... Do not try this at home! I am a trained professional fundie handler.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: MIRACLE [2/2]
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:41:07
EID:b7f4 22277520
Sue Armstrong, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
>>> Part 2 of 2...
SA> Langauge is an adaptation, and probably not the most efficient one
SA> to come down the pike, either. It's very easy to misunderstand and
SA> obfuscate with words. And when a language dies and becomes
SA> forgotten, all the information is lost, anyway.
AS> It still is
AS> miraculous beyond belief. Other animals fly, or swim...breathe water
ML> What animal breathes water? The one's I know of breathe oxygen
ML> in the water.
SA>
SA> Marty, "animal" doesn't mean specifically mammal. :)
Still, no animal "breathes" water. They breathe the O2 IN the
water.
SA> Another example of how words are easily misused. Reminds me of
SA> George Bush defending his bird shooting on the grounds of "birds
SA> aren't animals". I wonder if he thought they were flying
SA> vegetables, then.
Well, old-time Catholics had rabbits re-classified as fish so
they could enjoy hasenpfeffer on Friday.
AS> or flash light. But so far as we can prove, only man can coin a new
AS> word. "In the beginning was the Word; The Word was with God and the
AS> Word was God"...the opening lines of the Gospel of John.
ML> "Words...only words..." In the beginning, there was a vacuum
ML> fluctuation.
SA> Everything on Earth communicates in some way or another whether
SA> chemically, visually or aurally. We've got simply one way of doing
SA> it. Hell, even a lot of other languages are ill-equipped to coin
SA> words; they steal from the lingua franca of the time (English itself
SA> is a mish-mash of other peoples' words). I've seen Chinese and
SA> other foreign-language broadcasts in which English words pop up on a
SA> regular basis, because there is no word in that language for the
SA> hing talked about, or else it's easier to say "computer" than a
SA> longer phrase in language x that translates out to "complex
SA> electricity-using machine which counts."
That's why I'm fairly fluent in technical Russian, Uzbek and
Chinese. Goat help me, though, to hold a conversation (short of
"Why, yes, thank you; I'd sure like another drink.") with native
speakers of those languages.
... 8.73289174129: the cube root of the Beast
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:48:28
EID:f9fd 22277600
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty Leipzig
DC> On (28 Dec 96) Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa...
CG> Nasty when aroused, yes, I have a very quick temper; handle around 400
CG> personal messages a day,
DC> If he responds to all the "400 personal messages a day", he'll make
DC> Al Schoeder look like all of Al's fingers are broken and Al's
ML> Do the words "Get a life." have any meaning to those of this
ML> bent?
DC> If you think about it, he sounds a lot like Jesse Jones having
DC> to join all of those organizations to look like the "One True Xian".
DC> I wonder what Chris's modus operundi is?
Resident whiner and goof, first class.
... F**king C*nso*rs!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 07 Jan 97 14:51:11
EID:9c53 22277660
David Worrell, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Gwenny
the Pooh
DW> Wednesday January 01 1997 08:02, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to Curtis
DW> Johnson:
GT>>> Even plants have feelings. I was reading in Discover (I think)
CJ>> I have to say I'm skeptical that you read that in _Discover_. What
GP> It's possible it was Omni.
DW> Ah, yes. The _Cosmopolitan_ of science magazines. That explains a lot.
Phuque that. It's the _National Enquirer_ of science mags.
... "Geez, Tolkien couldn't follow this plot!" -Crow, "Cave Dwellers"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: *would* be?
|Date: 07 Jan 97 15:01:07
EID:0cdc 22277820
Judith Bandsma, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Steve
Quarrella
-=> Steve Quarrella spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
SQ> Spray them with pork cologne as they come charging over the sand
SQ> dunes.
JB> I always thought they could have ended the Gulf War in about 10
JB> minutes by bombing the military installations with pig shit.
Or empty our landfills with Unrestricted Junk Warfare.
An old Kelvinator, accelerated as 10m/s/s, from 45K feet, would
be most discouraging.
... A man should live forever, or die trying.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Canadian Politics
|Date: 07 Jan 97 15:02:30
EID:218f 22277840
Judith Bandsma, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Marty Leipzig spoke thusly to David Rice <=-
ML> ... Although, any language where "Ook" is a real word is to be
JB> Ik ook.
You want to clean that up?
... "Well-looks like somebody swabbed the deck with somebody's butt!"-Tom
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:29:27
EID:237c 222b63a0
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Dan
Ceppa
AS> Mr. British Mensa, to my mind, gave it all away, when he said he
AS> respected SEAN'S sense of humor, and almost nobody else's on this
AS> taking ALL his statements, from now on, with a large grain of salt.
DC> I hit the key quite quickly when he posts. Best guess it
DC> that those 400 personal messages he gets each day are from people
DC> telling him to shut up.
Could be. As you see, I answer a lot a day. But 400??? He may be just
AS> getting junk email...
And ye shall reap what you sow...
... -1.376381920471: the inverse tanh of the Beast
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns [2]
|Date: 11 Jan 97 06:50:50
EID:d693 222b3640
Al Schroeder, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marilyn
Burge
AS> The guns will eventually fall into disuse if they were baned
AS> altogether, save those taken or robbed from military installations.
AS> If we make it a mere matter of education, they will still be in
AS> circulation. As for the criminal element, obviously this will not
AS> affect them greatly, save to compound felonies when caught.
MB> With any care at all, a gun virtually lasts forever. And, to
MB> top it off, anybody with rudimentary skills can make a fairly
MB> workable gun in his basement with nothing more than a lathe
MB> and patience. In fact, you don't even need the lathe; the
MB> "hoods" in the 60's made zipguns in tenements, with nothing
MB> more than the will to do so.
AS> Interesting. Are zipguns a big problem in European countries, such as
AS> England, where personal firearms are more controlled?
Nope, as gun control laws only affect the law abiding. It may
keep firearms out of the hands of those who follow law; but
guns (on the black market) are quite available. Ever hear of a
little place called Belfast?
AS> -!- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
Has it been 30 days all ready?
... "Booze, it's what's for dinner."- Crow, "Gunslinger"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:29:47
EID:4eca 222b63a0
Katherine Wintersnight, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said
to Don Martin
DM>Gwenny The Pooh said "#HOLYSMOKE" to Al Schroeder, adding:
DM> GTP> Oh, no! I just got the newest mIRC, too, and I wanted to wander
in.
DM> GTP> But I can't think of a cute cat name that won't get me into trouble.
DM> Pussy Galore was a great cat name of the James Bond books . . .
KW> Hmmmm--I don't think that anyone's claimed any variation of Pussy yet.
KW> Pussypooh? Gwenpuss?
KW> Not everyone goes for the cat motif anyway--we have a werewolf as
KW> well.
And the occasional Brontosaur.
... Protest Dinoflagellates! Mesozoic Society against Perverted Practices
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:05:00
EID:bfe0 222b38a0
Gwenny the Pooh, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Marilyn
Burge
GtP> Heilsa, Marilyn!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marilyn say to Gwenny:
Gt>> Right you are. BTW, have you seen the newest Darwin fish. The fishie
Gt>> has a wrench in it's front paw and the word EVOLVE inside. Too cute.
MB> Lou and I both have that one on our vehicles. I also have the
MB> "original," but that fell off Lou's pickup the last time he went
MB> through the car wash. My latest is a bumper sticker of a Jesus
MB> fish being swallowed by a shark named "science."
GtP> Oh, I want that one. I am so tired of that bumper sticker with the
GtP> fundy fish eating the Darwin fish that says "The Truth will prevail."
GtP> I want a sticker that has the Darwin fish cooking the Fundy fish on
a
GtP> campfire that says, "The truth DID prevail."
I got tired of that as well and ginned up a little picture
(that hangs in my lab to annoy the fundy techs) of a thresher
shark labeled "science" about to devour the most fundified
Xtain fish. I uploaded the thing to Steve Q's board, but he's
said nada about it. Ahhh...he's probably steamed about the
"dinocat" .gif I sent him...
The scienceshark goes well with my "Darwin fish" coffee mug and
my "Dr. Science 'I know more than you do'" gimme cap.
Cheeses the fundies no end...
... "And remember, it's all in the name of science ..." Tom and Crow
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:16:53
EID:8e7a 222b3a00
Dan Ceppa, bereft (missing the last plane out of Tokyo), said to Damien
Wellman
-> On 05 Jan 97 13:40:40, Damien Wellman got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> in one form or another. The only thing off topic is discussing
DC> Styx and his drums.
DW> I suppose asking why it is off topic would also be off topic, eh?
DC> Nope, as I made the whole thing up about Styx and his drums
DC> being off-topic!
G'wan...beat it.
... "Last one to the salad bar gets burned as a heretic!" Hector Plasmic
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:27:09
EID:9b93 222b3b60
Martin Goldberg, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
J.J. Hitt
MG>> Direction of god?
JH> He went thataway...
MG> Wasn't that by Don McClean..."They took the last train to the
MG> coast...."
No, it was by Don McLean. Don McClean is Mr. Clean's younger
Scot cousin; tragically killed when he fell off the ballwasher
at the Royal and Ancient.
... Consider your reputation. Now, change your name and move out of town
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Scopes was convicted!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:29:09
EID:1b95 222b3ba0
Martin Goldberg, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Larry Falcone
LF> I find it amazing that so very many people on both sides of the
LF> issue remember that Darrow lost the case and Scopes was
LF> convicted.
MG> LIke the Dr. in QB IV who won his lawsuit but was awarded two cents
MG> for the damage to his reputation, I believe that the fine was minimal
MG> even though Scopes was found guilty.
Actually, the fine was excessive (by $50) and caused the case
to be tossed.
MG> Who then, came out the winner?
I ain't tellin'. Let 'em look it up themselves.
... Economics is extremely useful as a form of employment for economists.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: So Long
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:31:13
EID:6480 222b3be0
Martin Goldberg, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Dan Ceppa
MG>> Did you notice that no one ever picks out the peanunts?
DC> I do! Of course that's after I can't find any more cashews or
DC> pecans to eat...
MG> Us southern boys know that if you mix the peanuts up in a bottle of
RC
MG> cola, it resembles bourbon.
Only chromatically. But, if you add shoe polish and fish
squeezin's to the mixture; it'll be a dead ringer for
ClanMcVladTheImpaler.
Or Glenfiddich. As if there's a difference.
... Lo, God smote the world with a plague of Clan McGargle. - Bourbon 2:24
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: text
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:53:10
EID:adee 222b3ea0
ROBERT CURRY, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to CHRIS
GREEN
CG>> IQ: 174, tested by MENSA, an organisation I do not belong to,
CG>> since I found that it was full of 'social dysfunctionals'.
RC> It was very kind of you to avoid exacerbating the problem by
RC> joining.
CG> You're developing an 'English' sense of humour Robert!
RC> Simultaneously avoiding an 'English' sense of spelling, as I detest
RC> excessive use of the letter 'u'.
You must unequivocally abhor ululating in a vacuum then.
... "And change that tie. It's starting to piss me off."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 11 Jan 97 07:57:15
EID:322b 222b3f20
ROBERT CURRY, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to LYNDA
BUSTILLOZ
LB> I like to know where I stand without ambiguity.
RC> Well, a little ambiguity seems inevitable from time to time in any
RC> situation. Or is it just me? :-)
Well, yes and no...
... Against stupidity, the Gods themselves, contend in vain.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: matter
|Date: 11 Jan 97 08:00:12
EID:b99e 222b4000
Lee Woofenden, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to David
Worrell
LW> ... Pennecontemporaneously!
Although commenting on taglines is the height of fudyism, I
chance it this one time to ask why you would use a misspelled
geological term as an aforementioned tagline?
... .
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 11 Jan 97 08:04:21
EID:b93f 222b4080
Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan
Ceppa
AS> Yeah, but He judges about the "little bit". We're not sure (at this
AS> point) whether he's a lenient judge or a strict one.
DC> Having seen how he treats others via his own "written word",
DC> he's a pety despot.
AS> Who incarnated Himself as one of His subjects and endured a trial and
AS> execution by them...for them?
Sheesh...talk about melodramatic.
... "Eighteen straight whiskeys...I think that's a record." (Dylan Thomas)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 08:07:45
EID:b304 222b40e0
Gwenny the Pooh, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Damien Wellman
GtP> Heilsa, Damien!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Damien say to Gwenny:
DW> IF Gwenny = The Pooh THEN Carl Pollock ELSE Pray Contest
RS@>>> Which God would that be?
CP>> The God which BILLIONS around the world love and trust.
GTP>> Ah. . .Buddha. I don't Christians have even made it to the billion
GTP>> mark yet.
DW> Well, technically speaking, Buddha isn't a god (he never claimed to
be,
DW> IIRC). Not that that stops lots of people from worshipping him as one
DW> anyhow.
GtP> True. I believe most Buddhists are quite close kin to atheists.
Well, there *was* this batch of Siberian Buddhists and a
couple of befoozled atheists...
...but *that's* another story...
... +Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Fermented Curd and Grape shop.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 11 Jan 97 08:09:14
EID:63d0 222b4120
Gwenny the Pooh, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marilyn Burge
GtP> Heilsa, Marilyn!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Marilyn say to Nate:
NC>> I posted some information, studies are just begining in the
NC>> area abortion and breast cancer. this should at the very
NC>> least be "discussed" along with any other topic... but the
NC>> high IQ folks like yourself are so afraid that there may be
NC>> side affects to abortion you all run like a bunch of scared
NC>> rabbits.
MB> Hardly. At most, all the "studies" will do is factor one more
MB> possible risk into the equation when decisions are being made.
MB> If people know the risk of taking crack and take it anyway,
MB> what makes you think that people will absolutely pass on the
MB> notion of an abortion just because there is a small statistical
MB> probability of future health consequences involved?
GtP> Forget crack. How about cigarettes and bourbon.
Gag. Cigars and bourbon...aye, that's the ticket, lassie...
GtP> My motto, Don't
GtP> drink, don't smoke, eat right. . .die anyway.
Perfect health is merely the slowest form of dying.
... Don't drink, don't smoke, eat right...get run over by a church bus.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 11 Jan 97 08:11:34
EID:1932 222b4160
Gwenny the Pooh, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Kelsey Bjarnason
GtP> Heilsa, Kelsey!
GtP> While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh
GtP> heard Kelsey say to Nate:
NC>> Yeppers!!! All living things do respond to outside stimuli don't
NC>> they... Emphasis on living... ;-}
GtP>> Now, are you going to stop eating, just because of this?
NC>> nope not likely... We still have to eat to live don't we...
KB> Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
KB> happy life as a vegetarian.
GtP> Maybe YOU can, I can't. Seriously, I can't get all the chemicals I
GtP> need from legumes (besides the fact they make me ill). So it's meat
GtP> or be miserable for me.
My diagnosis of bilateral evagenous diverticulitis has, sadly,
removed me from the bovine, porcine and ovine predator list.
I must now make content with the killing of the occasional
domesticated barnyard fowl; eviscerating and excoriating it
and eating it's flesh after being charred on an open mesquite fire.
I'd kill for a 64 oz. porterhouse, blood rare. Unfortunately,
it'd probably return the favor.
Oh, and I take gobs of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
I wish they made them in beef flavor though...
... Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:11:33
EID:b54a 222b6160
Carl Pollock, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to KELSEY
BJARNASON
CP> <<=QUOTING Kelsey Bjarnason @1:229/6 TO Carl Pollock=>>
RS@> : So it's good that those children starve to death or are
RS@> : burned to death, according to some Deity you know of? Isn't
RS@> : that cruel?
CP>
CP> We may not know WHY it happens, how ever it MUST be for some greater
CP> good or it would not happen.
KB@> Why? because some old book says so?
CP> This "old book" has survived for literly thousands of years.
Wrong. The The Westminister Assembly in 1647 approved the list
of 66 books composing the Authorized version of the Bible, the
one most in use in America. The Bible is less than 300 years
old.
CP> This "old
CP> book" has been the hope and insperation for BILLIONS of men, women and
CP> children accross the ages.
So has "Quotations from Chairman Mao". So? The Bible also been the
basis of more bloodshed, intolerance, bigotry and hatred than
any other.
CP> How can this "old book" have such an impact
CP> on THOUSANDS of lives through THOUSANDS of years and still not be true?
Your argument from credulity is not evidence of the Bible's
worth, only of your ignorance. Millions once believed the
Earth to be flat; that fact alone did not flatten it's rather
lumpy oblate sphereoidalness one nanometer.
... Apes evolved from Creationists.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 11 Jan 97 09:57:00
EID:57a1 222b4f20
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 4002308a
DC> Please show where torture is being applied to you to answer
DC> the fucking question.
SH> What question was that?
SH> I don't remember being asked such a question?
SS> The question is: What is a sponge cat?
SH> No, "DC" (who I think is Dan Ceppa) appeared to be referring
SH> to a question about fucking. I don't remember being asked such
SH> a question.
Are your decoding skills eroding? I saw the question asked by at
least three people. I was curious too.
Is there an answer?
... What if there were no hypothetical situations?
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Gnat and abortion
|Date: 11 Jan 97 10:42:00
EID:ba44 222b5540
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ ac7e99db
JB> To the gnat...what's next now that this has been DEFINITELY
JB> blown out of the water? I know! How about the correlation of
JB> men who father babies who get aborted and the incidence of
JB> impotence? (Makes as much sense to me as the other)
How about a correlation between the fathers of aborted fetuses and
prostate cancer? Maybe the statistics could be weighted for whether
or not said "father" paid for the abortion. That sounds pretty good.
... Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virtue.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 11 Jan 97 11:08:00
EID:9854 222b5900
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ d67d5956
BS> And this "child" as you say now must go through life knowing
BS> its mother didn't want him or her.
DH> Any adopted child goes through this, genius.
MB> Absolutely false. Many adopted children were wanted very, very
MB> much, but the unwed mother knew she was incapable of giving
MB> the child what all children need: opportunity (which requires
MB> a certain income level), and two parents in a stable home
MB> environment.
_We_ know that but kids don't operate on quite that level at ten.
... The "c" in rap is silent.
---
* KMail 3.10o Knight Moves
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:00
EID:cb46 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619375
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> So you DO understand the meaning, but you would like to request
RC> some supporting evidence -- don't be afraid of the word
RC> "evidence" now, Al.
AS> I'm not at all afraid of it. And as we see, you understood me.
Certainly I understood you -- you were the one asking for elucidation,
if you recall. I even spent some moments providing support for the
rather trivial claim that I made, which you for some reason had trouble
accepting, even though you know that I do not make mathematical claims
lightly -- and never without the ability to back them up, unless I say
so in the first place. I'm very conscious of these things.
AS>> Name one pattern. Per your claim.
RC> A trivial task. The number pi, when squared and multiplied
RC> by the smallest perfect number (namely, 6), contains within it
RC> neither more nor less than the exact sum of all the reciprocal
RC> square numbers. A fascinating pattern, indeed, though not
RC> the only one.
RC> Next?
AS> Excellent!
Naturally. I got quite a chuckle from your "he ran away from the
question" silliness, btw. You should know better than that, Al.
AS> Good to know you can actually back up your claim. The way you
AS> were going all into offended mode for my asking, I was beginning
AS> to wonder...
"Offended mode?" A touch of exasperation, perhaps, at your seemingly
willful ignorance every time I mention the existence of multiple
instances or answers, and you demand to see "THE" instance or answer.
In this thread, it was the infinite number of patterns -- inspiring
you to demand evidence of "THE" pattern.
AS> now, a question. In these numerous patterns of pi, after the
AS> 10,000th decimal point, can you predict, say, any three numbers
AS> in sequence in the next hundred numbers after that?
Certainly they can be calculated, yes. The best sort of prediction
one can possibly manage.
AS> Or in the next thousand numbers?
Again, yes.
AS> Without looking it up,
Obviously yes. How do you think it's possible to look it up in the
first place? Because it was first possible to calculate.
AS> if there have been that many digits of the determination
AS> of pi printed out?
Check Yahoo. Over a million digits of the decimal expansion of pi
have been calculated, and are available on the Web, if you happen
to be interested.
AS> By a pattern alone, or no? Just wondering. Answer back or not
AS> as you wish.
It could be done using the pattern I provided for you above, even
though that's a terribly inefficient numerical method, yes. There
are other patterns better suited to efficient calculation of a
decimal (or any other radix) representation.
Although this answers your follow-up question as stated, I suspect
that you may be having some difficulty asking what you mean to ask,
which could possibly be related to some confusion about patterns.
Feel free to continue with further follow-up questions as you wish,
and so long as you remember to say please and thank you I will be
delighted to assist.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: into my parlor
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:01
EID:6cf5 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619376
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Ooooohhhh, I am SO hurt.
RC> It is not my intention to "hurt" you, Al, even if the truth may
RC> happen to sting a bit on occasion.
AS> Sarcasm deaf. Not surprised.
If you wish to believe others are deaf, you have the right to delude
yourself. Freedom of religion, and all that. In any case, my response
to your childish verbiage was sincere.
RC> If your perceptions include a feeling of my supposedly trying
RC> to hurt you by correcting your errors, then I think you have
RC> got a *very* funny notion of what it means to be injured.
AS> What error? I asked you to back up your assertion.
Exactly, when I asserted you were in error about pi. Hello? Anyone home?
AS>> Do as I say, not as I do, perhaps? Awwwww. Izzums hurt?
RC> ROFL! I can assure you that when I request information from
RC> someone who knows a subject better than I do, and this is
RC> regular activity of mine, I am quite polite about it. If the
RC> suggestion that you try the more enlightened approach offends
RC> you, Al, then rest assured that you are always welcome to
RC> fuck off. Your choice.
AS> And rob myself of such priceless entertainment? By no means.
Not only entertaining, but educational as well, if you are actually
listening and manage to retain the information being imparted.
RC> Suggesting that I might actually decline an opportunity to
RC> express mathematical trivia will likely bring a smile to a
RC> few faces around here who know better.
AS> Then why get all offended how I ask you?
The boorishness that characterizes many of your posts is more
tiresome than offensive, Al. I have never been offended by anything
expressed here (by you or anyone else). My suggestions were to help
you become less boorish in your behavior. Follow them or not, as you
prefer.
RC> Thanks again for stepping into my parlor.
AS> Thank you for stepping in it. Period.
You really should clean up after yourself when you leave such messes
around, you know. It would only be sanitary.
---
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:02
EID:c929 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619377
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Odd. I said you said it HELPED define it.
RC> No "domain theory" does that, either. Are you really so DENSE, Al?
AS> I notice in what you reprinted, you did not reprint your actual
AS> statement...which I reproduced...yet again...for all to see.
You need me to hold your hand through this? OK, if you really want to:
AS> ---------------------------------------------------
AS>> There is NO EVIDENCE for those other domains, Robert.
AS>
AS> Yet their logical possibility helps to define the probabilistic
AS> sample space.
Where's the "domain theory" in that, Al? Where did I say that any
"doamin theory" helped to define anything? Are you really so stupid?
AS> Did you not write the above? We were certainly talking about
AS> domains.
You were babbling about domains, yes. I was pointing out that logical
possibilites help to define a probabilistic sample space. There was
no mention of any "domain theory" until after you introduced that
entirely misleading and misrepresentative phrase into the thread much
later on.
Logical possibilities help to define sample spaces, yes.
You may give up the ridiculous misrepresentation that I ever said
a "domain theory" helped to do ANYTHING.
Or you may continue as Al B.
---
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: Occam
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:03
EID:c07a 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619378
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: CURTIS JOHNSON
CJ> No doubt Ken Wiens would call him a logical positivist.
RC> ROFL!
RC> For this, you win a coupon book redeemable at:
RC> John Brawley's Nonlocal House of Cheese
RS> Do you get vouchers for pre-packaged and wrapped gift-whine?
You must be _way_ behind in your mail if you are just now responding
to a post from September, 1996!
Would it be evil of me, I wonder, to answer the question?
---
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: I Knew That!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:04
EID:335b 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619379
TID: GE/2 1.2
RS> On 30-09-96 at 23:29, ROBERT CURRY wrote to MICHAEL HARDY:
MH> Jews of today are no more guilty of it than whites of today are
MH> guilty of slave trading, or Germans today are guilty of running
MH> concentration camps. Yes, there are bigots who hold it against
MH> them,
RC> Like Al Shroeder?
RC> He seems to be an advocate of collective, inheritable guilt.
RS> You owe me a new keyboard!
Try collecting from my great-grandchildren.
---
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:05
EID:9f80 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937a
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> And if I said that I *know* the Tooth Fairy exists?
JB>> To *know* it is implies "it IS!"
RC> Indeed. And thus I can say that the Tooth Fairy does exist.
RC> Can't you? Have you never been the Tooth Fairy?
JB> I have never been the Tooth fairy. I do not contribute to my
JB> children's tendencies toward irrationality; the society they're
JB> stuck in does plenty of that, without me adding to it.
I think that some harmless (especially fun and creative) make believe
can serve as an innoculation against more harmful make believe.
---
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:06
EID:1d63 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937b
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> Please define "number" as you're using it, then? I see little
JB>> difference, if any, between "numeral" and "number."
RC> A numeral is a symbol used to represent a number; you will see
RC> many examples of them on your keyboard.
JB> You do have a way with words, don't you? It's not always what
JB> I'd call "polite"....
Perhaps you have read into it something that is not there?
RC> A number, however, is the abstract concept being represented.
JB> Fine.
Then I take it you do see the difference. Correct?
JB> (Note: zero represents "nothing" --categorically:
To be more precise, you should say that zero represents "none."
JB> 'zero fingers' is equivalent to 'zero ones' and 'zero tens.'
While the quantities are the same (none of each), the things being
quantified are different in each case, please note.
JB> The _concept_ is of absence of something, not necessarily
JB> limited to mathematical somethings.
Quite so. The concept itself -- zero -- is not itself "nothing"
(exactly the point I have been attempting to emphasize).
JB> "Zero," while valid as an answer in English,
As well as in math, a more precise language than English.
JB> _implies_ positiveness: it is less negative than "-1."
To make up something called "less negative" and then assert that
this quality makes something positive is absurd, John.
The number zero is neither positive nor negative. Have you never
heard of the trichotomy law?
JB> Hence, inversely, it is "more positive than minus one."
And is minus one "more positive" than minus two? Will you next
be saying that all the negative numbers are positive because
they are all "more positive" than some number that is relatively
"more negative?"
RC>> How many fingers are on your hand? Five.
JB>> Do fingers exist at all? (yes)
RC> I ask a quantitative question, and you substitute a yes-no one.
JB> Not so.
The quantum religious nutball version of "IS NOT!"
JB> I point out that the category "fingers" is brought into
JB> existence by positive number,
Sloppy thinking. No enumeration is required for fingers (or for
the category "fingers") to exist.
---
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--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: quantum nutball shit
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:07
EID:65a8 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937c
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> there is a difference between the formally-codified definition
JB> of "zero" that you are employing,
At least now you seem to recognize that zero can indeed be rather
readily defined. HolySmoke: the educational echo -- it's not just
for blasphemy anymore!
JB> and the perhaps 'metaphysical' concept itself, which extends
JB> beyond mathematics.
If you are using your own idiosyncratic "metaphysical" definitions,
John, maybe that's the problem here.
RC> The number zero is a concept, and you seem determined to ignore
RC> it because it doesn't suit you. That is the right of every
RC> crackpot, of course, and you are certainly no exception.
JB> It's not that the concept doesn't suit me JB>--it does, quite
JB> nicely-- it's that the concept as codified by ancient
JB> mathematics-definers, and come into standard usage, does not
JB> suit me.
If you wish to make up your own personal language, feel free, but
please let others know when you are speaking so idiosyncratically
and refrain from telling everyone else that they are wrong because
they don't use your private crackpot definitions in place of the
well-defined standards.
JB> (It is metaphysically erroneous, and leads to internal
JB> contradictions.)
You are full of shit.
RC> you are quite deluded if you imagine the concept of zero as
RC> a cardinal number does not exist at all.
JB> I do not so claim. I do claim it has problems
For instance?
The remainder of your post was cut off, btw -- too many lines for
SLMR to process. You are suffering from Schroeder Syndrome.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: J.J. HITT
|Sub: feed
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:08
EID:c1a8 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937d
TID: GE/2 1.2
JJH> Damnit... I deleted a message about 2 seconds before I thought
JJH> of a reply. I *think* you wrote it, if not ignore this.
JJH> The comment was made that it won't be too long before we have
JJH> new-age weenies remembering details of past-lives from the
JJH> future.
JJH> It's already happened (happened about 20 years ago, as a matter
JJH> of fact): Jane Roberts and the "Seth Materials".
Somehow I am not suprised.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:09
EID:f3e0 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937e
TID: GE/2 1.2
MB> He's being excessively annoying, and, I've got an e-mail
MB> from him that admits he's doing to deliberately, just
MB> to see the Todds' reactions to his taunting.
The Fidonet policy of not being excessively annoying (or too easily
annoyed -- the other side of that coin) deals with harrassing netmail
and technical issues. Behavior in an echo depends on how the echo is
moderated, however. It is not a Policy 4 issue at all (and if it were,
it would not be appropriate to complain about it in an echo, anyway).
MB> ... There are no Christian Moderators here that are going
MB> to save you.
Indeed. No Pagan Moderators that are going to save anyone, either.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:10
EID:4bf3 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d61937f
TID: GE/2 1.2
JS> (1 Tim 1:15 NIV) Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves
JS> full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save
JS> sinners--of whom I am the worst.
JS> And you can sign my name to that one if you like.
So you are saying that you're worse than your prostitute-fucking
hero, Jimmy Swaggart?
Does Wilbur know about this?
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:11
EID:67f7 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619380
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Karen Davis
JS>> REad the book.
KD> I'm not convinced that book is accurate.
JS> I am.
A friend of mine was asking how anyone could be convinced about
the accuracy of any book that claims an ass can talk. I showed him
your posts.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:12
EID:9a42 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619381
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> By saying the initial conditions and constants we observe are
AS>> a matter of delliberate selection by an intelligent being
RC> But when you drag a god into it, those really aren't the *initial*
RC> conditions, are they?
AS> They are the initial conditions of the UNIVERSE, Robert.
Not if you suppose a god exists, because then it would be a part
of the universe.
RC> Thus, the question of causes for initial conditions is merely
RC> pushed back away from the observable universe to some vague
RC> phantom of imagination which has no explanation for its initial
RC> conditions.
AS> Indeed.
So you agree that you aren't explaining "the initial conditions"
after all. Interesting.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:13
EID:9cdc 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619382
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: David Worrell
GTP> You told us to stop her from eating Twinkies (there's that
GTP> phallic symbol you adore so much).
A Twinkie is a phallic symbol? How about a Little Debbie's snack cake?
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:14
EID:cb4a 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619383
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Single hand. You get a 10, a 2, a 7, a 5, a 3. In that order
AS>> on the cards as you pick them up.
RC> And the odds for this particular combination?
AS> Got me. I assume random shuffling out of a 52-card deck.
It is only to be expected that you haven't a clue, given your evident
misperceptions regarding elementary probability, Al.
AS>> And you realize that your birthday is Oct. 27th, 1953.
RC> Except that it's not. Sorry. Though that could possibly be
RC> "spooky" for superstitious people who *were* born on that day,
AS> *Sigh* Use your imagination, Robert.
Get a decent education, Al, rather than just spouting off nonsense.
Unless that is prohibited by your religious dogma.
AS> Assume, for an instant, that it is.
Why?
RC> I take it that you've decided to back off away from your ignorant
RC> belief that a royal flush is "less random" than the above hand.
RC> Is that correct?
AS> Hmmm. Where did I say the hand dealt above is less random than a
AS> royal flush? Specifically?
You didn't say that the hand dealt above was less random; you said that
a royal flush would be "less random."
Nice backpeddle, though.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:15
EID:d04b 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619384
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> You don't even believe in the world in front of you, then.
RC> Of course not, as having *belief* in that which is right
RC> in front of you has to be the most superfluous thing I've
RC> ever heard of.
AS> Indeed.
So are you finished with the ridiculous "you do so have belief"
thread?
AS> Of course, I know a person who thinks he sees angels and
AS> God right in front of him.
Get any interesting descriptions?
AS> If a leprauchaun popped up right in front of you, would you
AS> credit it?
Sure, why not?
AS> Daisy the pink flying hippo?
She's invisible.
AS> You implicitedly credit the evidence of your senses in all
AS> cases, no matter HOW unlikely?
Certainly. Note that this does not involve any *belief* however.
AS> Do you believe all your dreams were actual occurences,
No, I don't "believe" anything about them. You don't listen well.
AS> or do you believe (as I do) that they are temporary mental
AS> states that have no bearing on reality?
Again, no belief on the matter. And dreams do have a bearing on
reality, even if only on the reality of a person's mental state.
AS> And are you sure you are not dreaming right now, and by what
AS> criteria do you determine that?
My dreams are never as boring as your posts.
AS> Are you still sure it is superfluous?
Quite.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: waiting, still
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:16
EID:160a 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619385
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> At any rate, you are changing the subject, which was atheism,
RC>> not (as you introduced) "strict materialism."
RC>> Virtually no one cares a whit about "strict materialism."
AS>> Strict materialists do.
RC> Whoopee! Shall we get back to the original subject before 1998?
AS> Simply making sure of where you stand, Robert.
What does where I stand have to do with your claim that atheism
contradicts itself?
AS> If you are not a strict materialist, what do you credit which
AS> is immaterial?
Mappings and numbers, and games and relations,
Regular polytopes, odd permutations,
Cluster points, boundaries, fields and rings,
Abstractions are some of my favorite things.
AS>> Well, in this particular case you are. After all, if I said
AS>> I was a theist, and not a supernaturalist someone would point
AS>> out the contradiction. (I.E., dieties are, by their very
AS>> nature, supernatural.)
RC> Not Spinoza's deity. Sorry, Charlie -- you flubbed again.
RC> Your arrogance misleads you an awful lot; perhaps that means
RC> you should consider losing it (though you wouldn't be quite
RC> as entertaining without that particular piece of your clown
RC> suit wardrobe).
AS> Then do YOU, as an atheist, conversely accept the supernatural?
You forgot to say "Excellent!" (Your usual substitute for "Oops!")
To answer your question, no, I don't believe there's a monster in
the closet. You may (if you like) call me a naturalist, as opposed
to a supernaturalist. The latter is a position of pointless idiocy.
RC> Do let me know if you ever get back to your original claim that
RC> atheism somehow supposedly "contradicts itself."
AS> If you accept the supernatural...things outside nature...and yet
AS> are atheist, no, it would not be a contradiction.
Do let me know if you ever get back to your original stupid claim, Al.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:17
EID:74cd 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619386
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Curtis Johnson
RC> Are you proud of the fact that you have disgusted and
RC> thoroughly alienated him?
AS> That is your assertion, not his
My assertion has the benefit of being accurate, a characteristic
alien to many of yours.
AS> (at least addressed to me).
What would be the point in addressing someone who doesn't listen?
AS> If he was either, than that is his problem, not mine.
It *was* his problem; he solved it.
AS> Are all of you proud for driving Jesse off?
Who is "all of you?"
AS> Is there any blame attached to that? Hardly.
I noticed several people express thankfulness and pleasure.
AS> Jesse's a big boy, and his decisions are his own. Similarly,
AS> Curtis is a big boy, and HIS decisions are his own.
So you aren't proud to have disgusted and alienated him. Gee, and
here I thought you were getting commisions for driving people as far
away from your religion as possible.
Congratulations on the success of your approach.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:19
EID:78b3 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619388
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> If you regarded it as junk, why did you ever bother to try to
AS>> respond
RC> Already answered that one. Have you forgotten?
AS> Force of habit or temporary insanity, I believe.
So your repetition of the question was completely needless, as you
obviously can remember the answer.
AS> Neither of which I am to blame for, surely?
Did someone blame you?
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: ROD SWIFT
|Sub: word replace
|Date: 11 Jan 97 05:50:20
EID:1d76 222b2e40
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1d619389
TID: GE/2 1.2
RS> * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
That's the first mutation I've seen of that tagline.
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:39:06
EID:09b7 222b64e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d78b8f
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32D50D09
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told Ronald.....
RV> Welcome aboard.
Thanks.
TE>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
TE>> Gwenny
RV> You slip here.
I'm writing from my point, but our computer puts my mom's greeting and farewell.
I sometimes forget about it.
Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
Tiger Eyes
... Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> Little Big Horn Point <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.6)
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|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:46:24
EID:491e 222b65c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d78c8c
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32D50D0B
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told Ronald......
TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
TE>> Tiger Eyes
RV> Now you got it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah, but it took me awhile.
Listen to the voices of the Indian nations, Tiger Eyes
... A penny for your thoughts...$20 to act it out.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Tiger Eyes's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 11 Jan 97 12:57:08
EID:f867 222b6720
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d7915b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737ab604
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
While scalping some dumb white eyes, Tiger Eyes told J.J.........
TE>> Look you ignorant Nazi, skin-head motherfucker! If it
TE>> weren't for us Native Americans, your ancestor's fucking
TE>> white ass would have starved to death.
JJH> You actually know your ancestry?
Yeah I do, and unlike you...my ancestral tree branches.
JJH> Frankly, I'm flattly suprised that you even know who your father is.
Not all of us are like you J.J.....I mean when your parents dumped you off
at the local orphanage, for being a freak of humanity, they really didn't
know that you would be so hurt by it. I feel so sorry for your parents.
Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
Tiger Eyes
... Cthulhu Saves (he may get hungry later!)
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:12:26
EID:d8cc 222b6980
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d794fe
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737a9f56
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told J.J......
TE>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
TE>> Gwenny
JJH> I rather suspected that your mother would be writing your
JJH> messages for you, but I thought that even a goofy paganiod
JJH> like her could be more subtle about it.
You are truely the stupidest person on this echo. Even D. Worrell knows
about the message Mom posted about there being some kind of problem with
the set up of three OLRs on one computer and how the templates were getting
confused. I guess if you are that ignorant, you'll think that Starfire
is writing all the posts about the bible because it could be signed Starfire.
JJH> That is probably one of my greatest failings: I'm constantly
JJH> underestimating peoples' stupidity.
Everyone here knows that "underestimating....stupidity" is your greatest
fault. Otherwise, you would be able to recognize your own stupidity.
Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
Tiger Eyes
... Blood is thicker than water - also tastier...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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|From: Tiger Eyes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:28:25
EID:25f0 222b6b80
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d79766
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d4f91a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told Dan.....
TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian
TE>> nations
DC> Yep, around here, they are all bickering over who gets to
DC> sell off all the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the
DC> biggest gambling casinos.
Hey, you forgot Bingo halls. Well, I have to admit that you got me there.
But, as much as they bicker, you have to remember that most of it goes to
building up the community,(housing, parks and etc.) and to the Native American
College Fund. I couldn't have gone to school without it.
Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
Tiger Eyes
... (A)bort (F)ail (R)etry (C)reate a holographic image
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny The Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:46:45
EID:3180 222b6dc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d79b69
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737ab604
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Tiger:
TE>> Look you ignorant Nazi, skin-head motherfucker! If it
TE>> weren't for us Native Americans, your ancestor's fucking
TE>> white ass would have starved to death.
JJH> You actually know your ancestry?
Why so surprised JJ. Is it that uncommon among your friends and whatever
family you might have? Yes, some of us DO know our ancestry and take pride
in it. Some of us are even of mixed ancestry, which gives us a much sturdier
genetic base than, say, someone who only has one line of ancestry.
JJH> Frankly, I'm flattly suprised that you even know who your father is.
Yeah, the bipolar sexuality of us humans is interesting. So much better
than planarians and such. Pity about your not having a father. And then
your mother split on you.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Tiger
... "Q QQq QqQQqq qq qQ q <-- Continuum family photo." -STNG
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny The Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:54:00
EID:4d27 222b6ec0
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d79c7b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737a9f56
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Tiger:
TE>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
TE>> Gwenny
JJH> I rather suspected that your mother would be writing your
JJH> messages for you, but I thought that even a goofy paganiod
JJH> like her could be more subtle about it.
You disappoint me JJ. I was so looking forward to accusations of being
MPD. For the benefit of those who might have missed the message, we are
working the bugs out of the points. For some reason it is mixing up templates.
Got me, I'm not a computer geek. So I am having to insert what I want and
change names. And sometimes I get interrupted, the joys of grand-and motherhood.
So you can either use your brain or fuck you, JJ.
JJH> That is probably one of my greatest failings: I'm constantly
JJH> underestimating peoples' stupidity.
It's probably from the example of others who underestimate or overlook yours.
Imitation is the sincerest flatter. Thank you.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Úo-ï-Theft resis-
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny The Pooh
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Spam Heads
|Date: 11 Jan 97 13:58:23
EID:1c03 222b6f40
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d79d60
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 737aac23
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Gwenny:
GTP>> My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
GTP>> Tiger
JJH> Can't keep your phoney identities strait, can you?
Ahhh, that's better. My feelings were getting hurt that you weren't giving
me the same grief as the fundies. After all, you are lumping me with
them. I won't bother explaining it again. I wouldn't want to
tax your understanding.
JJH> What'sa matter? Don't think your daughters are intelligent
JJH> enough to speak for themselves?
More than intelligent enough. I think the problem is on your end. Knock,
knock. Just as I thought, the light's on but no one is home.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... As always, I speak by myself, for my self, and (usually) to myself.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny The Pooh
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Indians
|Date: 11 Jan 97 14:02:43
EID:9143 222b7040
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32d79efa
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d4f91a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Tiger Eyes heard
Dan say to Tiger:
TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
DC> Yep, around here, they are all bickering over who gets to sell off all
DC> the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the biggest gambling
DC> casinos.
Shows they are quick learners.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Listen to the voices of the old women.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 11 Jan 97 10:24:00
EID:fb6b 222b5300
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Al Schroeder <=-
JB> screened-in porch. I wondered vaguely whether I should go to sleep
JB> there, or drive back right away and do the mail, and had been thinking
JB> about these coincidence-'tests.' I had been immobile for about 15
JB> minutes when I had this thought, and a small finch-like bird came in
JB> the one hole in the screen, flew to a spot almost over my head, and
JB> LOOKED at me critically for almost a minute (I didn't move). Then
it
JB> turned around and flew back out the hole it had come in by.
Thanks John, you just pointed out a difficulty with your test. IF you
had requested such an event, you would cite it as proof of QG because
it is so unlikely. But since it happened without such a request, it
is NOT that unlikely, it just seems unlikely.
Actually it was probably a hummingbird, attracted by your red hair.
... Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: MORE TODDLINGS, NEWS
|Date: 10 Jan 97 17:59:00
EID:97d8 222a8f60
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to All <=-
GTP> Hey, folks. My daughters now have points and will be joining us in
GTP> the fray. Let's have a hearty welcome for Stephanie (aka TigerEyes)
and
GTP> Suzanne (aka Starfire).
Welcome to Hell kids!
But I've been wondering; wouldn't it be faster for you people
to shut off the computer and simply talk directly to one another?
... File not found, I'll load something *I* think is interesting.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: 'Cargo Cult' Reply
|Date: 12 Jan 97 15:40:48
EID:05e7 222c7d00
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d9067a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32cd08b2
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Rod!
Veneris dies January 03 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad Steve Quarrella:
RS> On 17-09-96 at 18:32, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to DAVID RICE:
SEPTEMBER?
Holy shit, Rod, where's this stuff been hiding?
SQ>> Shit, I wouldn't have known who W.V. Grant was unless I had
SQ>> read "The Faith Healers." That fuck just went to jail. :)
RS> But PrimeTime Live did him in *reeeal* good :)
Prime Time Live did an expos‚ on W.V. Grant too? They hit Robert Tilton
REALLY hard, and I think he learned a few things from his mistakes: He
just survived a lawsuit against his ex-wife where she claimed he was using
monies from the "Word of Faith" ministry for personal stuff (how SHOCKING).
Guess Bob learned to have a second set of books onhand, eh? :-/
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: I'm Back
|Date: 12 Jan 97 15:42:52
EID:aaff 222c7d40
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d906f4
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 3f733999
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Jim!
Which personality have I reached this time? :)
Mercurii dies January 01 1997, Dixit Jim Staal ad Steve Quarrella:
ML>> God willing, everything is working now and I'm back on-line.
ML>> BTW, Phil, I'm still waiting for the reply on Original Sin.
SQ>> Salue, Marty!
JS> Why do you bother with this putz?
I've asked myself the same question about you. :)
SQ>> Think you should let him know that you're still waiting for answers
to
SQ>> your questions?
JS> No. Marty has all the answers.
He never said he did. He DOES have all the answers when it comes to debunking
basic Creationism, I'll give him that. Are you one of these Babelism idiots,
Jimbo? Maybe we can dance with the Devil for a little while. :)
JS> ... And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul. (Acts 19:11)
In fact, I heard that Paul once cured a ham.
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:47:27
EID:e557 222c95ed
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d81fc7
PID: FM 2.02
DC> And that creep has had at least 2 round trips trips for the "cure".
DC> an admission that the church not only has a problem, it has a major
DC> problem.
DH> they can return to be celibate priests that will counsel folks
DH> on how to best conduct their marriage and family relationships...
dc> Sort of like letting the fox guard the henhouse.
I think that's _exactly_ what it is. The comment on the radio a couple
of days ago makes a great deal of sense... Christanic pedophiles turn to
the priesthood in an attempt to resolve their desires. It doesn't work:
The Christian mastership provides mock authority and condonement allowing
them to rape children with near impunity.
Yet another thing about organized religion which fails utterly.
dc> Also, IIRC, there are other xian sects that have at least
dc> as bad of a track record when it comes to those matters.
It's pandemic to all brand names; the Catholic brand gets the most public
exposure because their brand of priesthood makes a public show of non-fucking.
~*~ McGod's - Have it my way or go to Hell. - Sue Armstrong
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: No, really.
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:50:43
EID:5178 222c9655
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45b
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d7a8a2
PID: FM 2.02
DR> It is inconceivable (pardon the pun) that women this day
DR> and age would go to a Pagan festival to meet men, let
DR> alone to "have sex." The "sexual revolution" is dead: AIDS
DR> nuked it.
dw> Don't get out much, do you?
He never gets _in_ at all!
dr> Drop by one of your local nightclubs on
dr> a Saturday night, then come tell me the above again.
I saw it in Holland. Boys and gurls willing to fuck fuck fuck and the only
concession to the endless problem of disease transmission is to "hoist a
condom."
~*~ WARNING! Please go to your places and fasten your seat belts. A very
possible fundy implosion is imminent.... This is NOT a drill!!!!
- Dan Ceppa
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:59:08
EID:fd35 222c9764
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d7abf9
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> Imagine 10,000 caltrops dumped out the back of a pick-up on a
FR>> 10-mile long section of public-land logging road.
EM> I shall, if you'll apprise me of what a caltrop is.
dw> Caltrops were invented to deal with horse cavalry.
dw> They also work rather well against wheeled vehicles.
I would like to see how well they work on landing strips. My guess is that
their use at uncontrolled fields -- most usually at night -- would be effective.
Many uncontrolled fields are totally dark; one clicks the transmitter switch
a set number of times to turn on the lights which then turn off after a
set period of time.
Since anyone can drive onto most uncontrolled fields, caltrops could be
deployed in numbers in the dark. Ariving and departing aircraft after the
fact would have problems.
~*~ From beginning to end, there's one unfolding story of God's
plan of salivation for mankind. - Marguerite Kendall
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: "FAT PEOPLE GOT NO REASON... FAT PEOPLE GOT NO REASON TO LIVE"
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:02:03
EID:7620 222c9841
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45d
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d7b0eb
PID: FM 2.02
MB> it was because he was ragging on the two of you about
mb> something you could do nothing about.
dw> People can't do anything about their weight? Really?
dw> What planet do you live on?
I'm sure she didn't mean how that came out. Perhaps she ment that parents
can't easilly control their children's weight. That can be true: I wouldn't
eat and was 120 pounds until around the age of 28 -- then I gained about
30 pounds all at once.
~*~ The grand self-delusion of the modern spirit, that no higher powers
ever existed, has seduced us into pacts with demonic forces.
- Jesse Jones (Fundy pretending everyone's being controlled by his
"demons" constructs - HolySmoke 09/Dec/96)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Matt Giwer
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:05:28
EID:3025 222c98ae
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d7d0cf
PID: FM 2.02
dw> Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer? It seems he has
dw> acheived noteriety on the Internet approaching that enjoyed
dw> by Steve Winter.
dw> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
Yes, I've had archival information on him in the Nazi folders. He is a
Holocaust revisionist/denier and has expressed ideological support for Nazi
fascism in various Internet newsgroups... alt.conspiracy and alt.revisionism
being just a couple.
As far as focus is concerned, he's not much of a threat. He's not like,
say, a Randall Terry level of terrorist-wanna-be hate monger and doesn't
deserve the attention he gets around the network for all that.
He's one of the few seemingly atheist hate mongers that I know of. He's
the first non-Christian hate monger in my files.
~*~ Why did your godling tell his desciples to take up the sword
prior to that engagement? - Dan Ceppa.
He didn't tell them to use it. - Andrew Masten (fundy Christian)
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:10:16
EID:eab6 222c9948
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a45f
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2d86aea0
PID: FM 2.02
Do> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity that's allowing
Do> anything, that we're allowing everything?
DC> Of course we are. We shape the world
dc> around us into what we want it to be.
dom> Then stop asking people why their God allows anything.
Why should be not employ the traditional rhetorical devices which are specifically
engineered to get idiots to think about the absurdity of their preconceived
notions? The fact that Dan (and every other atheist) knows that gods are
not responsible is entire besides the point; the individual whom he was
talking toward thinks otherwise and needs to be disabused of that occultism.
Do> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
DC> It may pay lip service to that concept. However, any free
DC> will is oveshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised threats.
dom> Actually, it never says you *can't*. It says what will
dom> happen if you *do*. You still have free will.
Humans have only the amount of "free will" that is politically and socio-economically
expedient at the time.
~*~ No, the reason that you tout it is your conscience an
stand it better then Life from Life. - Ron Stringfellow
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:11:22
EID:05d4 222c996b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a460
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> Is calling for the distruption of a FidoNet echo
FR>> an actionable offence or does the resentful fascist
FR>> Nazi Christian have to actually do it first?
DR> A single call to the offending BBS from Styx would
DR> end the problem. Therefore, why would the fundy bother?
SQ> Perhaps a call to Fido HQ is in order?
ml> It is time to have Al call his family.
Do you think his family actually hasn't disowned him already?
~*~ I am a humble servant of the Lord. Those who work in
opposition to God are enemies of God. - Richard Thorneycroft
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:19:39
EID:2feb 222c9a73
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a461
PID: FM 2.02
AS> They are usually hit by the
AS> "Saturday Night Special" type of gun.
I wonder what idiot is feeding this guy this bullshit.
ml> Quality handguns, particularly foreign imports, have quite well
ml> and true put paid to the old "SNS" line. The availability of
ml> relatively inexpensive and large capacity handguns have sent
ml> cheaply made 6-shot revolvers to that place where all
ml> evolutionary rejects go when natural selection rears it's head.
When I was shooting with pigs once a week there was a discussion about "Saturday
Night Specials." One instructor stated that such cheap cookie-cutter throw-aways
are more dangerous to the person who first fires them than any intended
victim.
The cop said that shootings most often occur at ranges less than 10 feet
and that cheap stamp-pressed SNSs that were all the media rage for a time
were inaccurate and more dangerous for the user than for the target.
Cops know that the most widely-used weapon is the knife.
ML> That's the way it is; you must take a course and pass the
ML> proficiency test (which, admittedly, even most carbon based
ML> life forms with an IQ exceeding room temperature could - but it
ML> does exclude certain more benighted individuals.)
There were a few things on the test which were ambiguous. On one of the
tests I took the safest course of action when handleing a semi automatic
wasn't the right answer. The right answer put a round in the chamber and
the safety on; the answer I picked was an empty chamber and the safety on
-- I didn't get the answer correct even though it was the safest.
ml> The course consists of (A.) know your weapon (it's really
ml> necessary to de-deify firearms; many people believe them to be
ml> magical),
That's something I see often. Someone walks into the gunshop and wants
to buy a gun -- any gun, they have no idea what they're going to use it
for or any idea what they want, they just want a gun.
~*~ You're like a pack of dogs on a rabbit. - Maria Russell
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:25:28
EID:838c 222c9b2e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a462
PID: FM 2.02
AM> Which would lead you more horrified, to find one
AM> of your children being a satanist or a Christian?
There is no difference.
Also: Trying to whip-up emotional support by appealing to the "save the
children!" rhetoric is evil.
~*~ You're threatening to attack someone with an onion. - J.J. Hitt
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Christians in prison
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:29:28
EID:6a22 222c9bae
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a463
PID: FM 2.02
ML> At least a few. How many of the US's prison populace are Christians?
ML> Answer the question, Andy.
AM> I haven't the slightest idea. Does being in prison make one feeble.
Let me help you: Nearly all the people in the United States prison system
(which exceeds 5 million people; the majority of which are in for drug related
crimes) are Christians. A growing number of them are Muslims. This trend
will continue as blacks discard what they perceive to be the "white man's
religion" and trade Christian occultism for Muslim occultism.
Want the embarrassing references? Ask.
~*~ Would you like to concoct another opinion and stuff
it down Hawking's throat? - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Quote!
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:32:24
EID:d540 222c9c0c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a464
PID: FM 2.02
But when examining a phenomena, like the placement of rocks
in a field, there is nothing unscientific about considering
whether those rocks were placed by design or natural forces.
- Andrew Masten
I honestly think that the clown is serious!
~*~ Yesterday, while I was drinking, you had me worried, but today I am
sober, and can easily show how thin your position is. - Rick Vanderzwaag
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Anthropic asininities.
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:38:16
EID:218f 222c9cc8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a465
PID: FM 2.02
AM> By the way, by your definition, nuetrinos are
AM> non-existant since they leave no evidence.
Neutrinos are manufactured and measures in superconducting super kitty colliders
nearly every week at some place around the globe. I understand that your
masters feed you this bullshit yet you shouldn't mouth-off in ignorance
among your educated superiors.
~*~ Ohh! Ohh! Hit me! Beat me! Make me install WINDOWS 3.1!~ ;-)
- Gary Glunz
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:44:30
EID:4d94 222c9d8f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a466
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You're sick, dear. You need an exit councelor.
dc> I hear that Dr Kavorkian has volunteered his services.
FR> Now _that's_ a good exit!
ml> Let's hold an echothon to buy a Dr. K gift certificate.
Another wonderful idea! Buy Kavorkian gify certificates for those you hate!
~*~ I have God himself. - Rick Gordon
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:58:52
EID:afd3 222c9f5a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0612a467
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1d619382
PID: FM 2.02
GTP> You told us to stop her from eating Twinkies (there's
gtp> that phallic symbol you adore so much).
rc> A Twinkie is a phallic symbol? How about a Little Debbie's snack cake?
David R. and I discussed that symbolism years ago. "I'll have a Little
Debbie." "Send out the girl and we'll call it even." }:-} The Morton
Salt girl, the six-year-old Coppertone butt... For a society which decrys
child pornography, there sure is a measure of acceptability which properly
clothed.
~*~ A =REAL= atheist would have kept the pizza, turned the dog loose on
him, and stripped the Vega for parts to sell in Mexico. - David Rice
---
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 12 Jan 97 21:35:40
EID:ef34 222cac60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32d9593c
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060d20cd
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!
Dies solis January 12 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
FR>> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and
fr>> inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
fr>> convention's hotels? I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
fr>> magazine.
sq>> Shoot, that's amateurish. How about getting a stack of Hustler
sq>> magazines and putting their contents into the books in the pews
sq>> of an organization that has done wrong to you?
FR> _MY_ suggestion is amateurish?!
Whose idea will piss off more people? :)
--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
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|From: Starfire
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:02:04
EID:ba3e 222ba040
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d7f2e4
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d6c36c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
St>> Heilsa, All!
AS> Hi, Star!
St>> Hello people I have begain to post in hollysmoke.:} I am Gweny's girl
St>> Starfire. The quickest way to a mans heart is
St>> with a broadsword,
St>> Starfire
AS> Are you aware there is a superheroine of that same name? (DC's Teen
AS> Titans, early eighties...)
Actually I hadn't heard I got my name from the song Star Fire from Minus
ten and Counting. Hows life in Florda?
The quickest way to a man's heart is with a broadsword.
Starfire
... CCITT- Can't Conceive Intelligent Thoughts Today
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.4)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:47:43
EID:9b26 222ba5e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d7fd93
REPLY: 1:221/203 1bd361ce
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brett!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Brett say to Gwenny:
NC>> Are you really this dense, or don't you have anything better to do
NC>> than sit at your PC and let the world know how low your IQ really is?
NC>> The "evidence" is in any bookstore, the Bible as a book of antiquity
NC>> is well established.
GT>>
GT>> Are YOU really dense or don't you realize that the bible is not the
GT>> only bo of great antiquity? Why is the bible more right than the
GT>> Vedas? Why don't accept the Iliad as evidence of the Greek gods?
BJ> "Antiquity" is not a really good argument, as you point out. I really
BJ> don't see why some people feel compelled to use "age" as a proof of
BJ> somethings basic truth.
BJ> The Bible and the Vedas though are apples and organges. Though
BJ> ancient Hebraic writing styles were hardly "linear" in their
BJ> historical outlook, the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament are easily
BJ> more "historical" than the Vedas. But then again, I don't think
BJ> anyone claims the Vedas relate "actual" history...
I have not read the Vedas in years. But they have as much validity as the
Bible. The Bible is history accurate as The Sun or the National Enquirer
is the an accurate retelling of current events. And, no, no one claims
historical validity for the Vedas, because the Hindus aren't stuck on having
the one TRUTH.
NC>> Now, you can reject the message of the book, but everyone agrees that
NC>> the bible has survived, and is unrivaled in it's manuscript attestion.
GT>>
GT>> I don't agree. While the bible may have survived, it did not do so
GT>> unscath and is therefore suspect. As for its "manuscript attestion",
I
GT>> am guessing
BJ> I've yet to see evidence of the "scencorship" that so many speak of.
I
BJ> know of "alleged" scensorship, such as the crafty example of the gnostics
BJ> in their "secret gospel of Mark"...but nothing of substance.
Have you read the Jewish scriptures that the christians claim are the same
as the OT?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Jesus died to take away your sins, not your mind.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: reading incomprehensi
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:53:20
EID:3f22 222ba6a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d7fed1
REPLY: 1:221/203 1bd361cf
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Brett!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Brett say to Gwenny:
NC>> . Who likes to see little babies in the mothers womb taken out by
NC>> force..
GT>>
GT>> You are drawing a conclusion that is not supported by the evidence,
GT>> complet ignoring other statements I have made. I support a choice,
and
GT>> my PERSONAL choice is to never ever have an abortion. I, personally,
GT>> find it repugnant However, I also find romance and western novels,
soap
GT>> operas, talk shows, w synthetic drugs, tobacco, country music, cheap
GT>> beer, and fundy men repugnan So I don't do those, either. You have
the
GT>> same option. Don't like abortio don't have one.
BJ> If you don't mind me asking, what about abortion do you find "repugnent"?
You know, that is a good question. I'm not sure I have an answer for it.
I happen to love children. I am happy I had mine, also I do admit that
if I'd known what they would have to deal with, I would have stayed celibate.
I guess it is just my personal belief that life is sacred. All life, from
the tiniest protozoa to the largest whale. All have the need to exist.
However, I also recognize that death is inevitable. The circle of life
is necessary for the Earth to continue and be healthy. Therefore, I strive
to nurture and protect all life that is given into my care. It hurts me
very much to see things die, necessary as it is.
However, I also realize that I am in the minority and most people don't
care about themselves and other people, let alone the rest of the beings
on this Earth. Therefore, I try not to interfere with other's choices.
It is their choice, they will deal with the consequences.
This isn't very clear, likely. It is a very complex issue. All the more
reason for me not to burden other's with believing as I do.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Profanity is the crutch of the inarticulate m***** f*****.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Sola Scriptura
|Date: 11 Jan 97 20:59:14
EID:afe9 222ba760
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d800b3
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32D50D0C
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Ronald!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Ronald say to Gwenny:
>>RV> With all the shit she's gone through. I'm glad i'm not female.
GTP>> It has it's down points. But mostly I like being female.
RV> So does she. More so now with her haveing more comfort of who
RV> she is. I'm very glad she is female.
Coming to terms with who we are is very important. I'm sure she's glad
you are male.
>>GTP>> Mistress J, oh, she sounds like someone I would like to meet.
>>RV> I've tried to get her to post or at least read this area, another
who
>>RV> hates computers and is afraid to speakup to strangers.
>>RV> Thats why i use the Mistress J in hopes she will break down and
>>RV> crack a 4x4 over my head in a reply. Instead i just get my ear
>>RV> tor off when we're together.
GTP>> Well, she can email or netmail me if she wants to meet someone and
get
GTP>> some practice. I'm at gtp@pcisys.net.
RV> There are quit a few women, within this area which could help her be
RV> less 'alone' as to life happenings. There are items that I as a male
RV> will never be able to totally understand, relateing to how a female
RV> feels.
Much as I hate to admit that males and females are that different, I admit
that there are things that only a woman can give another woman. Is it nurture?
Is it inherent in gender? I have no idea. I can say that the only men
I have ever met who were able to be "one of the girls" were gay. Of course,
I love men the way they are. I often find that I perfer men to talk to
anyway. There's only so much "girl talk" I can take. I wanna talk about
comets and engines and computers.
RV> It's also an easer medium [safer?] to ask questions. Cattybitch
RV> past, to me anyhow, sounds much like Joyce's past. It's one she has
RV> only passed hints on, it's not an item i push, it would hurt her too
RV> much.
Hopefully she will grow to the point she can share and let go.
GTP>> practice. I'm at gtp@pcisys.net.
RV> Saved, who know, one day i may join up, as to direct net mail
RV> node to node, I told her i can do that, but it's a no go, i know
RV> it will sound silly to you but she is afraid of computers, i don't
RV> understand why. Likely same problem as with my sister, just refuses
RV> to play on computers....it's silly.... type of thing.
It isn't silly to us. I was terrified of computers five years ago.
As I have said before, I've had some bad experiences with mainframes.
I STILL worry about hitting the wrong button and destroying my pc.
RV> She writes a 15 page letter to her sister, best she's done in the
RV> local base. "be dropping by later" " Lv U " . Not what you
RV> would class as gabby.
Give her time. We all grow at our own pace.
RV> It's not a case where spelling and context isn't the best.When she's
RV> here i use her ideas on how to say things, i want to say, and how to
RV> spell words. If i want her to really have a good laught, i let her
RV> correct my replys.
Dear, that could be a life's work. I'm glad she helps.
RV> She's a gem but boy in some areas. I just don't understand.
If we totally understood each other, where would be the adventure, huh?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... `if it's not Scottish, it's crrrrrrrrrrrraaap!'
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:05:59
EID:63b7 222ba8a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d80120
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32D50D0D
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Ronald!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Ronald say to Gwenny:
>>GTP>> Hey, I'm attached to deities, I have priority.
>>RV> Sure..sure... drag your god&goddess into the picture.
GTP>> Hey, both my deities are female. . .this is my goddess Tit, and this
is
GTP>> my goddess Tit. (I hated that show)
RV> Never seen that show or even heard of any show of that name. I sometimes
RV> can see my old neighbour 'way you come out with things', she was a big
RV> women also. Man-o-man, what tits. Crazy / weird / wild women, a
RV> dam great person.
It was the Newhart Show or something like that where these three
brothers would come on and one would say, "This is my brother, Daryl, and
this is my other brother Daryl."
>>RV> I'm afraid by the time you got finish with the spook, there
>>RV> wouldn't be enought left to jump on. I'm only a little runt, there
>>RV> would be lots left over for you to bat around.
GTP>> Oh, well, I can share. We could even work him over together. I'll
GTP>> hold hi you.
RV> Sounds good to me both can have fun.
And when you're done, we could see if a witch's athame REALLY can affect
the spirit world.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... ZenCrafters: Total Enlightenment, in about an hour.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: End Times are upon us!
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:07:52
EID:40a5 222ba8e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d80169
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to GWENNY:
GTP>> Oh, it exists, dear. It is a huge underground
GTP>> climate controlled storage area where genealogical
GTP>> records are kept. There have been several "news
GTP>> articles" on it in the past few years. You can
GTP>> go to your local Ward Library and request copies
GTP>> of any record to complete your research. Unless
GTP>> you are smart like me and avoid any contact
GTP>> with them.
DR> The only reason I can think of for why the cult would
DR> have these records is if they intend to enact "race-"
DR> based laws or perpetrate "race-" based genocide. They
DR> want to know who's "white" (chosen by their gods) and who
DR> ain't (Satan's chosen). If they have any other rational
DR> basis for their lust over geneology, I have not heard
DR> about it. I cannot see how it matters who begat whom.
They claim to want to keep track of who has had the sacraments so they can
get it done for everyone. To me it is just more of their anal retentive
nonsense.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Red meat isn't bad for you. Fuzzy blue-green meat is.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:08:57
EID:a00a 222ba900
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d8019b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58be5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GT>>> Hmmm... What a concept. (Although I'm getting a little grey for
GT>>> Frazetta's sword-swingers.) I'll have to see what we can come up
GT>>> with.
AS>> I'm sure Gwenny would like to cooperate...
GtP>> Oh, of course. What do you think, the black lace corset or the
GtP>> purple and sequin harem outfit??
AS> The purple and sequin harem outfit would be more Frazettaish, I think.
Okay, purple and sequin it is. Now, who is gonna draw it??
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Swipple's Rule of Order: He who shouts the loudest has the floor.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:09:52
EID:7ec0 222ba920
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d801be
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58be6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GtP>>> I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. Of course, he
GtP>>> would very politely and respectfully take said female home and be
on
GtP>>> his merry way . . . heroes, who understands 'em?
AS>> Some would. Some wouldn't. Solomon Kane would. Galahad would.
AS>> Superman would. However, both Conan and James Bond would very
AS>> chivalrously oblidge the girl.
GtP>> Weellll, I do have a soft spot in my heart for Sean
GtP>> Connery. . .but, no, I'll take the honorable one who wouldn't know
a
GtP>> pass if it hit him in the head and gave him a concussion.
AS> Sounds a lot like Dave Rice's behavior at Dragonfest, the way you
AS> described it....
I think David recognizes a pass, I just think he ignores it. I could be
wrong.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Firings will continue until morale improves
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:10:28
EID:d0c2 222ba940
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d8026a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58bea
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
AS>> But it still hurts a little. Teenagers are self-conscious enough
AS>> without having total outsiders insult them. At least Mark DID post
AS>> here. Suzanne hasn't.
GtP>> That is about to change. We are setting her up a point with a spell
GtP>> checker.
AS> Ahhh, the Todd family is like the Hydra of Greek legend. Insult one,
and
AS> two pop up... not exactly what David was aiming for, is it?
Indeed. And there are more who haven't joined the fray, but
who are thinking about it. Matthew, who is too young to be exposed without
supervision, has some choice things to say to David. Imagine my surprise
that he would defend his sib, who he claims to hate. Sibs. .
.ahhh, joy.
As I said last night, I imagine this will all blow over in a week or so
and JJ and David will find others to harass. It seems to be cyclical.
This is the second or third time JJ has decided to flame the "witch freaks".
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... It's ok to laugh in the bedroom, but don't point
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:13:18
EID:42a6 222ba9a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d80295
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58beb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
AS>> Golgotha. Jesus with the nails driven through the bone. A Man in
AS>> agony for all men, and women.
GtP>> BETWEEN the bones, Al. It was supposed to be the fulfillment of
GtP>> prophesy that no bones were broken.
AS> Right you are. I stand corrected.
I just can't stand to see it recounted wrong, even if it is a myth from
my pov.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... My "Inner Child" is a really nasty bitch!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:14:04
EID:0490 222ba9c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d802f0
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58bec
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
GtP>> David's going fundy, David's going fundy. Only half a quote, not
the
GtP>> half that tells us what we need to understand what's going on and
GtP>> then a nonseqitur. Guess it's only fair. We took Michael. I think
GtP>> we got the better deal.
AS> You did indeed.
AS> Unfortunately.
Well, maybe I can pretend to be Christian for awhile so you have some intelligent
company. I was thinking that I am probably the best person I knew to start
another sect of xtianity that was based totally on the alledged teachings
of Jeshua and were more woman friendly.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I have come to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of gum
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 11 Jan 97 21:15:30
EID:cb8d 222ba9e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d80317
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d58bf1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
AS>>> Sometimes VERY common indeed...
GtP>>> Hey, hey! I am not common at all.
AS>> You're right...goddesses aren't common at all...
GtP>> Harumph! I sense some subtle sarcasm here.
AS> Not at all. Or maybe just a shade. There are quite a few women I consider
AS> at least near-goddesses.
Good save, Al.
AS> Don't confuse me with one of the OTHER posters from Tennessee.
Never.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (W)hip with wet noodle?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 11 Jan 97 10:18:53
EID:e0ee 222b5240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d8721a
AS> Dave, I saw it...but I'll be honest with you. Prophecies
AS> are, at the very least, a matter of interpretation, and
AS> arguing which prophecies came true is a bottomless
AS> morrass, and finally, I had more than enough stuff to
AS> address directed specifically at ME. I actually
AS> agreed with a lot of your points but with all the
AS> other stuff I had to answer, I didn't feel like wading
AS> through 23 messages going--"well, I agree here, no, I
AS> disagree there..." etc.
DR> In Thomas Paine's "The Age Of Reason" books one and two
DR> he explained why the god(s) would not resort to revelation
DR> and prophesy--- his reason what exactly what you said:
DR> "Prophecies are, at the very least, a matter of
DR> interpretation...." They are therefore flawed, and if
DR> the god(s) is perfect, a perfect means would be used.
I wasn't consciously mimicking Paine, but I've read a lot of books, and
sometimes what I say is part C.S. Lewis, part Isaac Asimov, part Thomas
Maine, and part John Donne. So it wsa probably a subconscious memory of
what Paine said. But I think there is something you MAY not have
considered. After all, if we are really dealing with an Infinite mind,
anything He might impart to us might have MANY layers of meaning, some of
which would apply to the original situation, and some which might have
echoes that would apply to later generations. Just as many of the
prophecies that some say presage Christ ALSO had a specific meaning to the
generation it was written to...BOTH might be true, in the same way that
Shakespeare can use two meanings with one word.
DR> But that's the LEAST of the "Bible Prophesy" belief's
DR> problems.
To me, Dave, the meat of the bible prophecies in Jesus' case were verified
by Jesus' miracles, especially His resurrection. Because certainly many
leaders before, during, and after claimed to be the fulfillment of
prophecy concerning Messiahs. And many of the prophecies could be equally
applied to the others.
... I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 11 Jan 97 10:20:26
EID:fb7b 222b5280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d8721b
AS> Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name....
RV> You can try the fake, but Satan tells the truth. Straight up.
RV> Your not, what you, try to claim.
I didn't claim anything. I just said "hope you guess my name"...and it
ain't Mick Jagger.
RV> I knew that line rang a bell, thank the 6 nation station
RV> and that weird/wild manager. Why he had that in the Jazz part
RV> only he will know. Hell , what can i say..... now it's a
RV> rap piece. That boy is gottobe on cloud nine. See a weird night
RV> comeing up. Going to be a great one again.
"Sympathy for the Devil" was in the jazz section. And later in the rap
section???
... Men despise religion. They hate it and are afraid it may be true.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: .
|Date: 11 Jan 97 10:23:27
EID:a0cf 222b52e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32d8721c
AS> Not much. Excuse me while I