God Damned Fundies!
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:10:28
EID:fcac 222d7940
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da5064
-> On 11 Jan 97 05:34:13, Bill Wolff got back to Martin Goldberg
BW> Carl Sagan didn't claim that evolution had positively had taken
BW> place!
MG> You wnat to be treated like you're not a fundy? OK, explain why
BW> No you don't seem to understand. As I know that evolution is a fact,
You don't understand, Billy-boy. Nada, nothing.
BW> have changed by changing conditions by natural means. Although Carl
BW> Sagan also admits that species may have been changed by "...
This is the third time in as many messages from you that you
have lied about the Sagan quote. You wouldn't even make a
piss-poor primordial soup if a large dose of intelligence
was added to it.
... Every fundy flamed enlightens the world.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Ceppa has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:16:02
EID:212e 222d7a00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da51b2
-> On 11 Jan 97 04:58:01, Bill Wolff got back to Dan Ceppa
You are on a roll, Billy-boy. This is message number four
that you lie your silly little ass off.
DC> Tell us again, oh dipshit, how Carl Sagan is a creationist.
BW> I've never said that Carl Sagan was creationists. What I did say is
Bullshit, you stupid little shit for brains.
BW> that I agree with Carl Sagan completely. And when Carl Sagan admits
BW> that the fossil record could be consistent with "... a Designer of a
BW> more remote and indirect temperament..." I happen to agree with him.
You still try to twist Sagan's quote. Don't you have any morals
in that twisted brain of yours?
BW> goofy fundy does. Now I know you will ignore the truth this time
BW> around just like you have done so in the past.
It is the truth that you are ignoring. In fact, based on your
messages, it has never taken the time to visit you.
... The only time I open my mouth is to change feet!!: Bill Wolff
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Mysteries of the Bible - Live on the Internet
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:28:33
EID:f080 222d7b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da54a1
-> On 11 Jan 97 06:21:33, Bill Wolff got back to Fredric Rice
BW> Someone dumped this into my Internet email inbox.
FR> I don't believe you.
BW> Of course you don't.
Get it straight, Billy-boy. No one believes a single thing
that you post as being remotely factual.
You've cried "Wolff" far more than one too many times.
... Argumentum ad Ringling Brothers: You are a Clown!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Indians
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:49:06
EID:2e47 222d7e20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da5972
-> On 12 Jan 97 23:53:19, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa
TE>>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
DC>> Yep, around here, they are all bickering over who gets to sell off
DC>> all the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the biggest
GP> Shows they are quick learners.
DW> Here's your flyby badge, Dan. :)
A couple more of them and I can take that vacation I always
wanted to do in the Andromeda Galaxy! (Of course, Leipzig
already has the frequent flyer points to do the same and
include half the worlds population as freebies!)
... "It is sad, because planets like this one are hard to find." G Glunz
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:54:07
EID:bc39 222d7ec0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da5a9f
-> On 12 Jan 97 13:52:02, Mark Kimes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I'm still trying to figure out why, if he didn't believe in it,
DC> he brought it up in the first place.
LW> It is a good start. Knowing that one _doesn't_ know is much better
DC> IOW, Lee, you don't have a clue to what you believe.
MK> Lee's "theory which is not a theory" is dismembered by Occam's Razor.
Lee does a good job of disembowling on his own. He really
doesn't need Occam to cut out any more of it.
MK> to him is simply there to point out how stupid this unwarranted
MK> assumption really is. Too bad he still won't permit himself to get
it.
I asked him to perform the experiment. I even pleaded with him.
Perhaps we could take a collection up and pay him?
Hell, I'd pay a buck to see it in action!
... "God told me" is no excuse for stupidity. -- Steve Quarrella
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:04:40
EID:3b4d 222d8080
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da5d18
-> On 11 Jan 97 05:28:06, Al Schroeder got back to Marilyn Burge
AS> And notice that the EXACT SAME PERSON who said that prayed in the
AS> Garden of Gethsemene to have "this burden lifted from me"...He was not
And yet another example to show that prayer doesn't work.
After all, if it doesn't work for a godling, why should it
work for mere mortals?
... Close your eyes, click your heels together 3 times and yell "IS NOT!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: APOLOGY TO JUDITH
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:13:55
EID:f424 222d81a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da5f43
-> On 11 Jan 97 05:53:12, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> they keep you going back to tithe every Sunday other than to
DC> pay for your forgiveness that you also need?
AS> I don't tithe.
IOW, you haven't signed the document that requires you to
do so.
AS> I pay what I am comfortable giving, because I approve
AS> of many of the ministries we support, like helping the homeless, or
Ministries? Why not work for the eradication of the problems?
AS> But yes, it is a given that we will fall short. Many decry
Yet, some how, your minister will still have a roof over his
head and a full belly.
AS> higher trying to reach the sky. You will never reach it. But you can
AS> get closer.
However, when you can't reach it, you stop trying. After all,
why make a damned fool out of your self trying to reach something
that is unobtainable?
... 10th Rule of Creationism: Ignored evidence will go way...
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:19:13
EID:c66f 222d8260
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da6081
-> On 11 Jan 97 06:41:47, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
AS> Who incarnated Himself as one of His subjects and endured a trial and
DC> What's 3 days to an eternal god, Al? Based on a 15 billion old
DC> universe, I think that equates to about 15 thousand_ths_ of a
DC> second.
AS> Probably. But does that matter? No matter whether a woman lives to be
AS> only twenty, or seventy-five, the hours or at most days of childbirth
AS> she might experience still remain excrutiatingly painful.
And, unlike your god, the mother remains in contact with her
child for the rest of her life.
DC> Why do you need a god to tell you that you did good or bad?
AS> I don't need a god to tell me that I did good or bad. I KNOW that.
Then, you do better than your god when it comes to dealing
with people. He has a bad habit of going Postal and offing
all that don't buy into his "godliness".
AS> I find it more comforting to have a God who doesn't CARE if you did
AS> good or bad...if you ask for forgiveness.
And, what if the forgiveness you forget to ask for is for
wearing clothes made of multi-fabrics and he sends you to hell?
... "You are suggesting that God is really behind this fiasco." Kelsey
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:27:01
EID:c66f 222d8360
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da6255
-> On 11 Jan 97 06:43:11, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
AS> pagan world killed many Christians like animals?
DC>
DC> With the xians more than making up the difference in body count
DC> with their own pograms[<-sic]
AS> Perhaps. Or we might observe the pagan habit of often exposing female
AS> children, as unwanted, and wonder how many millions were saved
AS> thereby, by Christians dropping that.
Did Gwenny ever leave one of her children out in the wilderness
to die?
Pagan is a broad term. You have attempted to paint all with the
one tiny brush you brought using only a single example.
As it stands, 1/2 of the world is given secondary class recognition
by the religion you hold.
... "One must let faith supercede reason" -- Glen Zilly
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:34:32
EID:c74f 222d8440
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da6418
-> On 11 Jan 97 18:38:16, Domino got back to Dan Ceppa
Do> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity that's allowing
Do> anything, that we're allowing everything?
DC> Of course we are. We shape the world around us into what
DC> we want it to be.
Do> Then stop asking people why their God allows anything.
Why not? They believe in the god or gods? As such, those
"god(s)" shape their view of reality.
DC> will is overshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised
DC> threats.
Do> Actually, it never says you *can't*. It says what will happen if you
Do> *do*. You still have free will.
"You have the free will to do whatever you want. However, if I
don't like what you do, say or think, you go to hell.
Now, either change your views or I get to send you to hell."
Does that sound like free will to you?
... God is just as compassionate as the people who created him.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:39:41
EID:826a 222d84e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da654d
-> On 11 Jan 97 09:57:27, Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa
dc> And that creep has had at least 2 round trips trips for the "cure".
FR> The one I reported this morning had ___FIVE___.
He should have been castrated and executed the first time around.
dc> is an admission that the church not only has a problem, it has
dc> a major problem.
FR> Yes. I heard yesterday that they also admit nuns to the facility.
FR> Nuns which sexually mollest boys and girls. Too lovely.
When will these assholes learn that they are the cause for
this abuse? Instead, they will insist that they are the "cure
for all of the problems of the world", as they attempt to
fuck the next generation, figuratively and literally.
... Religious belief - As eye-opening as skydiving without a parachute.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 13 Jan 97 16:50:34
EID:3364 222d8640
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da67da
-> On 11 Jan 97 08:28:25, Tiger Eyes got back to Dan Ceppa
TE> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told Dan.....
Seems like you missed this time and you are the one running
around without any hair.
TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
DC> sell off all the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the
DC> biggest gambling casinos.
TE> Hey, you forgot Bingo halls.
Nope. I wasn't going to through in all of the evil things that
Indians do in one post. I'm not Al Schroeder.
TE> Well, I have to admit that you got me there.
Of course I did. I'm not an appologist for any group of
people. You, however, attempt to do just that.
TE> it goes to building up the community,(housing, parks and etc.) and to
TE> the Native American College Fund.
Did you ever figure out that there are more than one single Indian
group in your "Native American Group"? Did it ever dawn on you
that each group has different ideas as to what an "American
Indian" is?
TE> I couldn't have gone to school without it.
So, did you bother to learn something, or just go to school?
And (you're gonna love this) did you graduate just because
your were an American Indian?
... Compost...because a rind is a terrible thing to waste!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:22:17
EID:1908 222d8ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da6f49
-> On 11 Jan 97 13:25:13, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> the biggist joke he played was on the Jews, as he stole their
DC> religion's background to found his.
AS> Again, not proven. He certainly used Jewish background, and made some
Of course he did. That was his revenge on the Pharisees.
AS> changes to suit the changing circumstances (like circumcision). That
AS> doesn't mean that he was ignorant from the traditions he was
AS> departing from.
Moreso, in that those traditions were part and parcel to the
the religion he was parodying.
DC> Now, Al, maybe you will see that Saul was a proponent of the
DC> Jerusalem Church but used the background to start his own cult.
AS> It's possible. But if so, there is little evidence of it.
Such little evidence in that the Jersalem Church died at
the time of Massada, well into the period that Saul was
active as a "member" of that very same cult? The cult
that he was the leader(?)?
DC> church that Saul founded. Other than stealing the name of
DC> that church's founder, Saul has nothing to do with the running
DC> of the Jerusalem Church.
AS> Then surely he would have warned the Corinthians, Collossians, etc.,
AS> not to heed the machinations of the Jerusalem Church...instead, he
AS> claimed friendship with Peter and James.
Of course he did! As with the stealing of the rest of his bible
from the Jews, it helped him in that he wasn't the founder,
but the "good old boy". After all, you forget that Saul was
taken on the carpet for his heresies. That is how he gets
around them.
AS> Were there differences between Paul and the Jerusalem Church?
AS> Undoubtedly. Are they so different as to constitute two different
AS> religions? Unproven.
Fully evidenced. Saul's only claim to Judaisim and it's antiquities
are via Jesuah bar Joseph. Read Saul's works. You will see that
he not only was not a real Jew, he never followed the teachings
of his godling.
... "I'm a biblical scholar, so I can send you all to hell!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Indians
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:25:30
EID:10e0 222d8b20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da700a
-> On 11 Jan 97 09:02:43, Gwenny The Pooh got back to Dan Ceppa
TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
DC> Yep, around here, they are all bickering over who gets to sell off all
DC> the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the biggest gambling
GTP> Shows they are quick learners.
Sure does. It shows that they will take the easy way out
and claim sovereignty over anything that they can make a
buck on and not have to work.
As you were saying?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:31:14
EID:e44d 222d8be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da7162
-> On 11 Jan 97 07:57:08, Tiger Eyes got back to J.J. Hitt
TE> Not all of us are like you J.J.....I mean when your parents dumped you
TE> off at the local orphanage, for being a freak of humanity, they really
TE> didn't know that you would be so hurt by it. I feel so sorry for your
TE> parents.
Try as you might, you are missing the proper follow through. I
might be a factor of your ancestory.
TE> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations,
See! The were always out to kill and/or enslave the other
tribes.
"Here: I've got an island that you can buy, cheap!" Said
to Peter Minuet upon his landing on Manhattan.
... 9 out of 10 rotweillers prefer Jehovah's Witnesses.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:32:38
EID:304c 222d8c00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da71b6
-> On 11 Jan 97 07:57:08, Tiger Eyes got back to J.J. Hitt
JJH> You actually know your ancestry?
TE> Yeah I do, and unlike you...my ancestral tree branches.
Must be a branch of the Sequoia. In fact, it has to be!
... "The fossil record, when played backwards, proves evolution": F Rice
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:35:50
EID:4663 222d8c60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32da7276
-> On 11 Jan 97 16:42:49, Ed Mills got back to J.J. Hitt
JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
JH> too much more time passes.
EM> Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
EM> responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a
EM> kind.
THAT'S THE DEFINITION!!!!
Nice to see you found your way back into the fray!
... Frankenstein's monster in Jerusalem = Scaring the bejeezus of Nazareth
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 12 Jan 97 17:02:00
EID:64ed 222c8840
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32d98b23
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d4e3f8
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about Quote:
DC> I have, Lee. You are a Sewage Wennie trying to use a bunch of
DC> mumbo jumbo to allay the fear you have that your god doesn't
DC> exist.
LW> Speaking of mumbo jumbo, only Fredric surpasses you out in using lots
LW> of emotionally loaded words to attack those who don't happen to agree
LW> with your opinions.
DC> Do you need me to translate it into pre-school level for you to
DC> understand?
Beside the point, as usual. You haven't said anything I don't understand
yet--except a few times when your sentences were so ungrammatical that it
was
hard to know for sure.
I'm not talking about the _level_ of your writing. I'm talking about its
emotional tone.
DC> I stand by my statement that you are afraid that your god doesn't
DC> exist.
I hope you're having fun standing there.
Do you have any evidence for this claim?
--Lee
... Here's whatever you were looking for:
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 12 Jan 97 17:04:00
EID:0863 222c8880
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32d98b24
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d4e594
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about so...now what?:
-> On 06 Jan 97 19:00:00, Lee Woofenden got back to Dan Ceppa
LW> In a strict scientific sense, it is not a theory, since it is not
===> ^^^^^^^^^^
LW> amenable to scientific demonstration. It is a theory in a broader sense
===> ^^^^^^^^^^
DC> Then it's not a theory, Lee. Stop presenting it as one.
LW> Theory n., pl. -ries. 1. a. Systematically organized knowledge
LW> applicable in a relatively wide variety of circumstances; especially,
a
DC> [..]
LW> Gee, Dan. There is more than one definition of "theory." How about in
LW> your dictionary?
DC> Gee, Lee, are you tired of shooting yourself in the foot? Next
DC> time, use a shotgun. It'll save time making all of those holes
DC> as you won't have to reload your mouth as often.
If you had said "Then it is not a scientific theory, Lee," I would have
agreed
with you. But that is not what you said.
Do I take this to mean you think that despite the fact that there are other
definitions of "theory" besides scientific theory, if it is not a scientific
theory it is not a theory?
--Lee
... Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 12 Jan 97 17:09:00
EID:0863 222c8920
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32d98b25
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d4e64b
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about so...now what?:
DC> Take a look at his last lines, Lee:
RC> the term "theory" to describe it. Hector had it pegged, I think,
RC> when he noted your "theory" was merely a metaphysical masturbation.
LW> I should have known this would be your response. Ignore the relevant
LW> part of the message and quote the irrelevant parts.
DC> That is the relevant part of the message, Lee.
I already replied to that part of the message. It was not the part that
was
relevant to the conversation I was having with you about whether I had stated
I
did not believe the theory I was presenting.
LW> I'll send the relevant part to you in a separate message. It's an
LW> experiment, really.
DC> Tell you what: I read it _after_ you perform Hector's Experiment.
This is classic! "If you don't play the game _my_ way, I'm not playing!"
At least you openly admit that you are unwilling even to look at the evidence
I
presented.
If you won't look at the evidence on such a minor point as whether I have
stated that I do not believe the theory we were discussing, how can I expect
you to look at any other evidence?
--Lee
... Evidence, scmevidence. Take the plunge!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 12 Jan 97 17:15:00
EID:1be8 222c89e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32d98b26
Here's what David Rice said to Lee Woofenden about Why don't we see God[sic]:
DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods, "non-usually"
DR> or otherwise?
LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts,
DR> One cannot "reject" what does not exist, nor "reject" evidence
DR> that has never ever ever been presented. By all means, do
DR> produce your "eye-witness" if you have one.
It would be absurd for you to claim that no one has ever given written or
verbal accounts of having seen God. They are in the sacred books of almost
every culture. In the Bible alone there are perhaps a dozen detailed accounts
of encounters with God, and many more passing references. There are thousands
of them scattered throughout current popular book and magazine literature
on
angels, near death experiences, and other religious and spiritual topics.
The question is not whether eye-witness accounts exist. The question is
whether
you or I believe that they are genuine or that they represent lies,
hallucinations, or some other form of error.
LW> so there's not much point in discussing it.
DR> Translation: your false, baseless assertion is know by you to be
DR> wrong, therefore you refuse to defend it and thus make you
DR> appear even more the fool.
Which assertion are you talking about? The one quoted above is that you
reject
all eye-witness accounts of seeing God. Are you saying this is false? That
you
do _not_ reject the eye-witness accounts of seeing God?
DR> If my translation is wrong, you need only produce some evidence
DR> for those gods you assert exist. I will happily retract my
DR> skepticism in that arena.
When did I "assert" that "gods" exist?
--Lee
... You learn something useless every day.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:25:33
EID:786e 222d5320
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0dbd
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1d619382
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, ROBERT!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
ROBERT say to GWENNY:
GTP>> You told us to stop her from eating Twinkies (there's that
GTP>> phallic symbol you adore so much).
RC> A Twinkie is a phallic symbol? How about a Little Debbie's snack cake?
Okay, maybe it's a cigar. I don't know about one, but two snack
cakes do suggest something.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Thank all the gods I'm an atheist.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: I'm BAAAAAAACK!
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:26:08
EID:1003 222d5340
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0de0
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d87230
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:
PB>> Just thought I'd let you know that I'm back after a nearly-three-year
PB>> hiatus.
GTP>> I don't remember you. Doesn't mean anything, I'm getting old.
AS> Well, if nothing else, he's Becke's new husband...
Oh, I know that. I meant I didn't remember him posting in here before.
He and Becke trade off on the IRC.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Sticks/stones break bones, but whips/chains excite me.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 2 CORINTHIANS 9:13
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:27:39
EID:41da 222d5360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0e85
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d7b29b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, David!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
David say to Gwenny:
GP>> You can. Just accept yourself. Give yourself a talking to, as though
GP>> you were giving advice to a friend. If you really can't accept your
GP>> weight, change it. If you really can't change it, accept it. It's
as
GP>> easy as that.
DW> Can't take your own advice, eh?
GP>> Well, according to inbred boy, David Worrell, I'm full of shit and
GP>> there's no scientific support for my hypothesis.
DW> Have you posted any such support? Until you do, you're full of shit.
I suggested you read an article from the US News Webpage.
DW> Oh, and you might take the time to *clearly* define your "hypothesis."
DW> You will be held to this definition.
Let's see, wasn't it something like "empathy could just be a hypersensitivy
to smell and body language." Now, what is so unclear about that? Maybe
that you seem to be unable to read what is written before you spew vitriol?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore, (C)rash?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:29:33
EID:d23b 222d53a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0f76
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738d7cc5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Silly person. I didn't say sentient cabbages. I said that I
GtP>> read about cabbages responding to outside stimuli. This is a
GtP>> well established fact, that plants to respond. Maybe they've
MG> I must interject that these high school type experiments lack the proper
MG> controls to be believable. It may well be that plants respond to music
in
MG> some manner, but there are many more envronmental factors that must
be
MG> controlled for before the conclusions are drawn.
Alright. You are the geneticist. Have you never seen any evidence that
plants respond to external stimuli? As I said, I've read a number of articles.
I have been doing some web searches and will be happy to share what I find.
I will continue to maintain, however, that plants respond by changing their
growth patterns and, when I can find some of the things I remember reading
in addition to the cabbage story, even perhaps even by ways measurable by
electrodes.
MG> Besdiesw, I don't want to sing "La Donna Mobile'" to them. I wnat to
MG> eat them.
I have a nice Diefenbachia here for you. But only if you
share it with David FIRST.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... REALITY.SYS not found: loading hidden file CONSPIRE.EXE
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:33:27
EID:fe2a 222d5420
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0f96
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738d7ed2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>>>> Rumor has it that she and the Gates of Delirim are in
GtP>>>> Denver.
DC>>> OK, just what, is, who, are "the Gates of Delirim"?
GtP>> Starwyn's BBS.
MG> "Gates of Delirium"
Martin, the idea of you correcting my spelling has brightened
my whole day.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... I'm not a cultist. I just like sacrificing virgins for fun.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:34:01
EID:5f7e 222d5440
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da103d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 738e0b0e
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Martin!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Martin say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Hmmm, I'm not familiar with that. Anything like grits?? (Wild
GtP>> runs screaming into the night) (Can you believe he was raised in
GtP>> Virginia and doesn't like grits. )
MG> He must be a communist.
Nope one of the most interesting syntheses of anarchist/bourgeoisie I have
ever seen.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore, (F)ornicate it!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:36:47
EID:fe89 222d5480
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da1065
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
SH>> Gestapo interrogators usually have reasons for the questions they ask
SH>> too.
GtP>> Answer the question, what are sponge cats?
ML> My guess is that they're like chamois dogs and work at car
ML> washes.
He claims to have posted what they are but hasn't reposted it.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Abort the Gay Whales with a Nuclear Handgun for Comrade Jesus
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Reverse peristalsis.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:37:34
EID:3abb 222d54a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da10a9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
DC>>> Then, John, what is "negative drinking"?
ML>> Drink a quart of ClanMcVladTheImpaler in 60 seconds and find
ML>> out...
GtP>> According to a letter in the January National Geographic:
GtP>> "Scotch is the most successful spirit in the wold. The value of
GtP>> these alcoholic exports in 1993 was more than two billion pounds (3
GtP>> billion US dollars).
ML> Of course it's a leading export (although "deport" is a term more
ML> apt). Who wants that stuff sitting around taking up valuable shelf
ML> space?
Well, at least I can take comfort in the fact that you had to think about
that one before you came up with a smart reply.
GtP>> In France, for example, more Scotch is now consumed in a
GtP>> month than cognac in a year."
ML> They eat snails and amphibian appendages there as well. That bespeaks
ML> volumes.
You got me there.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Be flexible. Some things just take time.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Jimbo's 2-D.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:38:39
EID:950c 222d54c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da10d9
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
ML>>> Give us time. You've been around for over 40 years and science
ML>>> still hasn't figured you out.
JS>>> Too deep, eh? :)
ML>> Deep as a saucer, sharp as a bagel.
GtP>> Well, bagel cuts are taking over as the number one injury seen in
GtP>> ERs.
ML> Y'know...somehow it's poetically justifiable that Jimbo is suffering
ML> from multiple bagel lacerations.
And they'd become infected and rotted his brain?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... "Aren't you supposed to be dead?" -Kirk ST:II
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:40:12
EID:91a0 222d5500
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da1193
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
GtP>> Oh, I want that one. I am so tired of that bumper sticker with the
GtP>> fundy fish eating the Darwin fish that says "The Truth will prevail."
GtP>> I want a sticker that has the Darwin fish cooking the Fundy fish on
a
GtP>> campfire that says, "The truth DID prevail."
ML> I got tired of that as well and ginned up a little picture (that hangs
ML> in my lab to annoy the fundy techs) of a thresher shark labeled
ML> "science" about to devour the most fundified Xtain fish.
I swear I'm gonna make a shirt for my kids to wear to school with my idea
on it. The irony of it is that the fundy fish is a very old symbol for
female genitals.
ML> I uploaded the thing to Steve Q's board, but he's said nada about it.
ML> Ahhh...he's probably steamed about the "dinocat" .gif I sent him...
Dinocat???
ML> The scienceshark goes well with my "Darwin fish" coffee mug and my
ML> "Dr. Science 'I know more than you do'" gimme cap.
Subtleties not a long suit with you, is it?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Hestia does it on the Hearth!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:42:49
EID:9d44 222d5540
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da11e1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
DW>> Well, technically speaking, Buddha isn't a god (he never claimed to
DW>> be, IIRC). Not that that stops lots of people from worshipping him
as
DW>> one anyhow.
GtP>> True. I believe most Buddhists are quite close kin to atheists.
ML> Well, there *was* this batch of Siberian Buddhists and a
ML> couple of befoozled atheists...
ML> ...but *that's* another story...
Oh, come on, tell me. I love long. . .stories.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... New Borg Movie: The Lonely Borg: Myth or Tragedy?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:43:58
EID:d892 222d5560
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da12ba
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
MB>> Hardly. At most, all the "studies" will do is factor one more
MB>> possible risk into the equation when decisions are being made.
MB>> If people know the risk of taking crack and take it anyway,
MB>> what makes you think that people will absolutely pass on the
MB>> notion of an abortion just because there is a small statistical
MB>> probability of future health consequences involved?
GtP>> Forget crack. How about cigarettes and bourbon.
ML> Gag. Cigars and bourbon...aye, that's the ticket, lassie...
Cigars aren't so bad, but pipes are much nicer and much more sexy.
As for bourbon, well, I might have some squirrled away that someone gave
us on our wedding. . .that was four years ago and it's probably still full.
GtP>> My motto, Don't drink, don't smoke, eat right. . .die anyway.
ML> Perfect health is merely the slowest form of dying.
Good health or no, no one in family seems to last past 75. What do you
think, should I try to die on the day before my 75th by crashing during
a drag race that follows a week long orgy and mead swilling??
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Me....a skeptic? I presume you have proof..
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:47:37
EID:4791 222d55e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da145d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marty!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marty say to Gwenny:
NC>>> Yeppers!!! All living things do respond to outside stimuli don't
NC>>> they... Emphasis on living... ;-}
GtP>>> Now, are you going to stop eating, just because of this?
NC>>> nope not likely... We still have to eat to live don't we...
KB>> Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
KB>> happy life as a vegetarian.
GtP>> Maybe YOU can, I can't. Seriously, I can't get all the chemicals
I
GtP>> need from legumes (besides the fact they make me ill). So it's meat
GtP>> or be miserable for me.
ML> My diagnosis of bilateral evagenous diverticulitis has, sadly, removed
ML> me from the bovine, porcine and ovine predator list. I must now make
ML> content with the killing of the occasional domesticated barnyard fowl;
ML> eviscerating and excoriating it and eating it's flesh after being
ML> charred on an open mesquite fire.
I figure that, statistically, just about everyone will suffer from some
digestive disorder in their life. I have a very mild hiatal hernia which
causes me mild discomfort if I only eat toast and coffee for breakfast or,
horrors, chili. (I think it's the beans) Having satisfied statistical
probability, I can go on doing whatever I want. So, how serious is
this diverticulitis?? Are they curable without surgical intervention?
I looked it up in my cheapass medical guide and it wasn't very enlightening.
ML> I'd kill for a 64 oz. porterhouse, blood rare. Unfortunately,
ML> it'd probably return the favor.
I'm still confused as to why meat would be a problem. Wouldn't any food
catch in the little pouches??
ML> Oh, and I take gobs of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
ML> I wish they made them in beef flavor though...
Yeah, because you can't get them from the natural source, cow/deer/bison/pig
flesh. I hope you feel better.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... To reformat a CD-ROM use steel wool and heavy pressure.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:54:23
EID:ae15 222d56c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da14ab
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 058ebc78
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Fredric!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Fredric say to Gwenny:
JS>> Whatever it means, it was spoken by some 'doctor' and not me. (post
so
jS>> old I don't remember who), but of course I don't agree with the
JS>> sentiment, silly.
FR> The stupid fuck wants to demand that because he posts under an alias
(even
FR> though when he was posting as "Doctor" Staal it was a pathetic alias)
he
FR> doesn't have to answer for his words.
It was supposed to be an alias? How stupid does he think we are?
gtp>> You liar. You know very well, because I posted it
gtp>> twice, that "the doctor" in question was YOU posting
gtp>> as Dr. James N. Staal. Still a liar for JAYSUS, I see.
FR> He's a fucking Promisekeeper -- there's no salvation for him.
True. I've met some. I'd call him Neandertal, but I think they were more
evolved.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Cross those feet! We only have three nails.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:55:37
EID:e404 222d56e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da1873
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Damien!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Damien say to Gwenny:
GTP>> I noticed. Why don't sysops put new users on HOLD for a week or so
GTP>> and check to see if they have the brain to be allowed to post at all.
GTP>> Hey, I may ask Wild if he can design something like that.
DW> One sysop I know had a policy of not allowing any users to use Fidonet
DW> echoes until they filled out an application and had shown themselves
to
DW> be halfway intellegent on the local bases. More sysops should do that.
Sounds like a good idea. Maybe a little spelling test, some history, and
grammar.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... Sticks/stones break bones, but whips/chains excite me.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 13 Jan 97 11:14:11
EID:b866 222d59c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da19f2
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32d7f500
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Steve!
While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Steve say to Gwenny:
SQ>>>>> Perhaps we can get Sean McCullough to come up with
SQ>>>>> "For the most part, atheists do not do good things" in Classical
SQ>>>>> Latin. Sean, how about it?
GtP>> I'll call him this morning.
SQ> Thanks...I'll be curious to see Jones's finest rendered into a Classical
SQ> language like Latin.
I'm talking to him at this moment, I will relay his translation asap.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny
... A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 12 Jan 97 10:18:49
EID:a0cc 222c5240
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32db2f15
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d50260
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to Dan Ceppa, who wrote to Steve Hayes on 09 Jan
97 09:36:16:
SS> The question is: What is a sponge cat?
SH> No, "DC" (who I think is Dan Ceppa) appeared to be referring to a
SH> question about fucking.
SH> I don't remember being asked such a question.
DC> Of course you don't remeber, you stupid fundy. You are trained
DC> not to remember anything other than what your masters spoon
DC> feed you every Sunday.
DC> Let me refresh you aberrant memory:
DC> You were asked about what "sponge cats" were. You then claimed
DC> that you were being asked for the answer by "a Gestapo method".
DC> In the interim, you have avoided both answering what the fuck are
DC> "sponge cats" and describing what the "gestapo tactics" used on
DC> your little mind were.
DC> Try answering both this time.
I've answered both of those, and neither of them was about fucking.
So how about you answering the question for a change.
Keep well,
Steve Hayes
E-mail: steveh@khanya.bbs.co.za
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734
... I love Dan - he makes ME seem normal!
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Steve Hayes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Puget macarena
|Date: 12 Jan 97 10:19:40
EID:55b2 222c5260
MSGID: 5:7107/9.0 32db2f16
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1caf9907
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
Steve Hayes is replying to ROBERT CURRY, who wrote to STEVE HAYES on 07
Jan 97 11:44:18:
RC> ROFL! Would the question (which you neglected to identify) be your
RC> ridiculous demand to have people tell you something about those
RC> "sponge cats" you babble about while studiously refusing to define
RC> what the phrase means, if anything?
RC> If South Africa provides assistance for its mentally ill citizens,
RC> perhaps you could seek help from your government. Otherwise, you
RC> are only going to continue providing entertainment here in HolySmoke.
It seems that the chief form of entertainment here on Holy Smoke is demanding
answers to questions that have either already been answered, or that haven't
been asked.
By neglecting to identify the question, I was merely joining in the spirit
of things in this echo - when in Rome...
... The rest of ROBERT CURRY's mindless ad hominems deleted
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
* Origin: Fast! BBS, Sandton, RSA * USR V34 * [706-1749] (5:7107/9)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:25:24
EID:1716 222da320
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2dae3bc1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d9c4d8
Hello David!
David Worrell wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
DW>> Nope. Agnostics need to grow some balls and climb down off
DW>> that fence. :)
MM> Hey... fence or no fence, how would you classify somebody who
MM> just don't care - one way or another?
DW> Apathetic?
So that is probably what I am - or Apatheistic, as Marilyn
Burge expressed it :-)
MM> Atheist means to me a person who has found the subject of
MM> religion important enough to become disenchanted and take
MM> an 'anti-stand' (in spite of any philological hair-splitting).
DW> Atheism is the default state, Mimi. We aren't born believing
DW> in gods.
Not as I see it. I am not an ANTI, simply a DONT-CARE-A-BIT.
The urge was never there. I see THAT as the default.
Interesting stuff, religion, but incomprehensible and basically
on exactly the same level as all kinds of fairy tales to me.
Funny and exiting to argue about, but not important enough to
incorporate in day-to-day decision making.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:16:53
EID:2eaa 222d8a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf585
AS>> You're right...goddesses aren't common at all...
GtP>> Harumph! I sense some subtle sarcasm here.
AS> Not at all. Or maybe just a shade. There are quite a few women I consider
AS> at least near-goddesses.
GtP> Good save, Al.
Hey, I haven't been married for sixteen years without learning SOME
survival skills.
AS> Don't confuse me with one of the OTHER posters from Tennessee.
GtP> Never.
Thanks.
... Hot Fudge Sundae falls on a Tuesday this year.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: RE: MASTURBATION
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:41:01
EID:3229 222d9d20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf586
GtP>> I have no problem with masturbation. I never had. I could never
GtP>> understand what the problem is.
AS> Well, for males, one must be careful not to leave stains on things...
BB> That's what towels are made for, Al..;)
Well, yes...but some might answer that some parts of an agreeable member
of the opposite sex are made for, also...
... A nudist is one who suffers from clothestrophobia.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: MIRACLE [1/2]
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:39:31
EID:d43d 222d8ce0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf587
AS>I think my reply to Marty was swallowed when I had those problems with
the
> BBS I used to post from. By "word" I meant unit of language...it doesn't
> matter whether the medium is verbal, electrical, smell, whatever. The
> ability to coin new terms to fit the situation is VERY interesting, and
> very unlike the bulk of animalkind. I acknowledge your chimp example,
but
> note they are using human-derived sign language, not our own.
DR> Al,
DR> Darwin was correct about one thing for certain. There is a close
DR> relation between language capabilities and intellect. However, I
DR> don't know if I would be too quick to give too much credit to the
DR> talking apes just yet. And I am not saying that anyone here is doing
DR> that. I just feel that doing so give rise to the notion that there
DR> must be human-like language abilities within these "alleged" early
DR> progenitors of man. It is true that speech is only "one" of the
DR> garments that language wears to meet press. However, to conclude that
DR> an ape's newly formed "gimme-a-banana-gesticulation" is to be compared
DR> to our own level of thought communication is perfunctory cognition at
DR> best.
DR> Only when language becomes free of the immediate control of
DR> external stimuli does it become an instrument of reasoning in the true
DR> sense of the word. Can apes acquire human language capabilities?
DR> Well, has one ever asked for a banana when one was not present or had
DR> not just been brought up by someone else? Where is the proof of their
DR> capability of abstract thought?
I'm perhaps not the one to ask, but I believe that the chimps HAVE asked
for food, at least, when it's not present. But, not sure of that. I know
someone who would know, though. Sue?
... I'm an absolute, off-the-wall fanatical moderate.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 13 Jan 97 17:44:46
EID:d84f 222d8d80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf588
RC> Are you proud of the fact that you have disgusted and
RC> thoroughly alienated him?
AS> That is your assertion, not his
RC> My assertion has the benefit of being accurate, a characteristic
RC> alien to many of yours.
Unfortunately for you, no it isn't.
AS> (at least addressed to me).
RC> What would be the point in addressing someone who doesn't listen?
Perhaps you should ask him that, since he addresses me a question IN THIS
VERY PACKET.
AS> If he was either, than that is his problem, not mine.
RC> It *was* his problem; he solved it.
He did indeed. He took some time out. He is back asking questions. Do you
have a problem with that?
AS> Are all of you proud for driving Jesse off?
RC> Who is "all of you?"
Many of the nontheists of the echo.
AS> Is there any blame attached to that? Hardly.
RC> I noticed several people express thankfulness and pleasure.
Yes.
AS> Jesse's a big boy, and his decisions are his own. Similarly,
AS> Curtis is a big boy, and HIS decisions are his own.
RC> So you aren't proud to have disgusted and alienated him. Gee, and
RC> here I thought you were getting commisions for driving people as far
RC> away from your religion as possible.
Are you seriously suggesting that Curtis is a ripe candidate for
conversion?
RC> Congratulations on the success of your approach.
Congratulations on your falling flat on your face. Too bad for you that
Curtis asked me a question in this very packet. ROFL!!!
... Wizard's Guild parking only. Violators will be toad!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:35:25
EID:d84f 222d9c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf589
AS> Dave Worrell similarly posting private email from Marilyn
AS> Burge as a rather involved tagline. Doubtless, to be
AS> consistent, you will defend that also.
RC> Doubtless you enjoy stirring as much shit as possible when it
RC> comes to Marilyn and anyone with whom she happens to have a dispute.
Tsk. A simple, "I do not back Worrell in that" would be more to the point.
Or "I do defend Worrell's right to do whatever he wants with private email
sent to him." Either would be fine.
Which for you?
AS> I keep it private, until the sender elects to tell me I can
AS> post it publicly. If you have different standards, again, no
AS> surprise.
RC> You know that my standards are to return any email that originated
RC> from a public thread in a public echo BACK into that public echo.
I do NOW.
RC> Why you should object to this has been a mystery.
I like to treat email as private.
AS> I do not reveal such if sent privately, unless the sender
AS> gives me permission.
RC> Then how do you account for your gaffe with Judith? Did she give
RC> you her permission?
(A) she did not say it in email, but among several in #irc, and (B) I
acknowledged the mistake, and apologized to Judith. If the two were
comparable, I would expect an apology from you, just as I apologized to
Judith. I do NOT expect that, of course. I know you too well.
RC> There's the difference between you and me:
RC> Your policy is absolute, and you absolutely fuck it up. My policy
RC> is to use my judgement in each situation as it arises. Thus far
Certainly. Regardless what the feelings of the other is, you will use as
YOUR judgement sees fit. As Worrell did with Marilyn's.
RC> the only complaint that I've ever had is from YOU bitching without
RC> any cause (unless you think that my policy differing from yours
RC> is somehow cause to bitch -- I wouldn't put that past you).
Not at all; I am simply remarking on our different standards.
AS> Even if it were all much the same information as posted
AS> publicly, it would be kept private, unless I asked the sender.
RC> Then how do you account for revealing the information that Judith
RC> specifically asked you NOT to reveal? I think I'll stick with
RC> a policy that is less absolute but better suited to encouraging
RC> reasonable consideration for each case as it comes up.
As long as YOU decide it is reasonable, Robert. And I apologized to
Judith. The two are not comparable, because of course there is no (nor do
I expect) apology from you.
AS> It was sent privately, not publicly. As I said above. Then
AS> it is, ipso facto, private.
RC> 100% wrong. NOTHING you send on the internet is private unless you
RC> encrypt it first.
Even that is not private...if there is no trust given the one you send the
message to.
AS> In other words, YOU choose to continue it. Very well.
RC> Well, apparantly we BOTH choose to continue it. Certainly I have
RC> no objections to your making a fool of yourself.
Even to the point of showing the way...by example?
AS> It is you who keep on reminding others how it is obviously
AS> folly to send you email, because YOU will be the judge
AS> of what is confidential, not they.
RC> And those who trust my judgement on the matter do so with complete
RC> confidence.
No; I trusted you with that much. I will not do so again. Or do you want
to qualify the "those" to mean, "everybody BUT Al"? A principle that is
held save when it is CONVENIENT for you to disregard it isn't much of one.
RC> It would be folly to send email to someone whose judgement one
RC> does NOT trust, if one sends something of a private, personal and
RC> confidential nature.
RC> Those who send long, boring rehashes of their public posts, as
RC> you did, Al, have no cause to complain if their rehashes are returned
RC> to the echo whence they originated to begin with.
Keep justifying it to yourself, Robert. Maybe you will eventually believe
it.
AS> Robert, if you sent me an email saying Clinton won the
AS> election...obviously no surprise...I would not reproduce
AS> it without asking you first.
RC> If you mean to demonstrate a thoughtless and unbending obedience to
RC> some absolute rule, this is charming. But so what?
Just observing the differences in standards.
... !edis gnorw eht morf siht ta gnikool era uoY
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 13 Jan 97 18:08:49
EID:b585 222d9100
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58a
AS> Wellllll....we don't have claims by living witnesses (or even purported
AS> living witnesses) of Odin hanging self-implaed by his own spear by
AS> Yggsdrasil, within historical times. As opposed to even the claims
of
GT> Yggdrasil. You were close.{g} IMO that story is generally
GT> considered to be allegorical - the price paid for knowledge - rather
GT> than literal history, as the JC yarn is.
I agree on both points; that one is allegorical for paying the price for
knowledge (the giving up the eye for knowledge at Mirmir's well is another
example)...and that the JC yarn is, at least in part, literal history.
AS> witness by James, John, Peter, etc. within historical times. Most
AS> mythologies are set in a historical neverland. Instead, we have a Man,
AS> living in a decade that can roughly be dated, yet doing things that
are
AS> usually only assigned to people of a mythical Golden AGe.
GT> IOW somebody tried to take a collection of myths and 'baptise' them
by
GT> putting in real, or at least real-sounding, names. Okay, I'll accept
GT> that.
Hmmmm. Or something actually happened that was the culmination and
fulfillment for what all the myths were metaphors for.
AS> Certainly Jesus conforms to the model of the Hero of a Thousand Faces.
AS> But a better question might be why the myth of a dying and resurrected
god
AS> is so common throughout mankind. It's almost as if we all had a universal
AS> yearning for such a being.
AS> Almost as if we were built with such a yearning.
GT> And the Jeshua story was one more attempt to capitalize on that
GT> yearning. Okay - makes sense. Actually, the dying and resurrected
GT> god myth has it's very obvious root in the natural annual cycle; the
GT> new green plants born in the spring, ripening to maturity in the
GT> summer, and dying in the fall, leaving behind them seeds to lie
GT> dormant under the Earth during the cold winter, until they are reborn
GT> again the next spring.
Hmmm. But that works better for the pheonix, surely? No one pretends the
old planet is the same as the new plant.
AS> No; but it doesn't disprove it either. And it rather puts a different
spin
AS> to turning to a religion SIMPLY because of the Heaven eventually offered.
GT> That's hardly unique, either, Al. Almost all religions have their
GT> own version of heaven; the Blessed Realm, the Summerlands, Valhalla,
GT> and so on.
Certainly. Although oftentimes it is a late developement. The early Jews
believed mainly in a misty Sheol; Heaven came later...just as the early
Greeks believed mainly in a Hades where the ghost of glorious Achilles
moaned it was better to be a living slave than King of the Dead (The
Oddyssey) and later developed the Blessed Isles, where the heroes and
truly good go...
... Ok, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:37:32
EID:242e 222d9ca0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58b
AS> RH> Her answer was that she would not remember me. Now, since we have
AS> What???? Where does she get that?
AS> RH> been married twice as long as she was single, she's going to wander
> RH> around Heaven wondering just who the Hell she IS.
AS> Do I get the odd feeling she puts a lot of presure on you to join the
> church...?
DR> Al,
DR> This little minuet with Roger and the Missuz has and will
DR> continue to create the sort of questions that are asked of us by
DR> non-believers. Not being all knowing creatures we are hard pressed
to
DR> answer them. It's a little disconcerting to see that they are asked
DR> within the bonds of matrimony as in this scenario. That's because they
DR> are unequally yoked and thus will have great problems as a result.
Well, Roger has been, as he said, married to her twice as long as she was
single, so their "unequal yoke" has survived a lot of things.
DR> Preamble aside, I will assay to provide some modicum of resolve
DR> to this quandary via perspective. I do not believe that she will not
DR> remember her husband no more than I believe she will not remember *all*
DR> parts of her incarnate life. The reflection upon the incarnate life
is
DR> what will eternally chasten those condemned to Hell and will,
DR> conversely, delight those who make it to Heaven. Her delight in her
DR> incarnate life, when in Heaven, will be in the knowledge she made the
DR> correct choice.
Ummmm. In all honesty, cold comfort when your spouse is roasting in Hell.
I have been married nearly seventeen years, and would hate to contemplate
same.
DR> Does this mean that she will not be saddened if Roger should not
DR> be there with her in God's glorious presence? No. Even God Himself
is
DR> grieved at man's choice to reject Him and thus be damned by his own
DR> repudiative nature. That is not to say that her compassion based
DR> twinges, no matter how strong, will negate any chance of her enjoying
DR> Heaven though. If they could, then Heaven isn't all that The Word says
DR> it is, right?
Well, yeah, but that still doesn't really compensate them for the
knowledge of what might have been. And of course, I am by no means as
sure as Roger's wife that he will end up anyplace but Heaven.
... What we have here, is a NEED to communicate!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:45:43
EID:a5e7 222d9da0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58c
AS> Asking forgiveness is extortion???
DC> It is when the alternative is an eternity of pain and suffering.
AS> Or an eternity of bliss and happiness.
DC> "Here: Eat this jelly doughnut or I'll kill you."
"Okay, here are two doors. One leads to a smorgasboard of delicious food,
and beautiful music, and fine books, and pretty ladies. The other leads
you to a sheer dropoff and you will die, horribly, falling twenty stories.
"Your choice."
AS> Wellllll....we don't have claims by living witnesses (or even
AS> purported living witnesses) of Odin hanging self-implaed by his own
AS> spear by Yggsdrasil, within historical times. As opposed to even
DC> You don't have independently corroborated claims for your myth,
DC> either.
Of the actual Resurrection and such? Granted. It's still light years ahead
of what most ancient religions claimed. We don't have independently
corroboated claims for a LOT of things that happened in the ancient world.
But at least we have claims of supposed eyewitnesses, which is more than
we can say for, say, the Trojan War, written by Homer, some seven hundred
years after the event...
Yet later confirmed by archeology in some respects.
AS> times. Most mythologies are set in a historical neverland. Instead,
we
AS> have a Man, living in a decade that can roughly be dated, yet doing
DC> I told you Saul wasn't a good Judaic scholar. I didn't say he
DC> was stupid.
No indeed; in fact, a rather learned man in some ways, quoting from at
least two pagan works. Too stupid to spread stories in places like Corinth
that a merchant or soldier couldn't debunk upon going back to Palestine.
DC> current cult of the UFO nuts as well as religious fanatics. Does
DC> that make their cult the "one true cult"?
AS> No; but it doesn't disprove it either. And it rather puts a different
DC> If you can't disprove it, why not join?
Because I think it extremely unlikely; if alien civlizations do exist
(which I do believe) they would not spend the enormous amounts of energy
to travel from star to star, only to mutilate cattle and give another
species' females rather intimate exams. Crossing light years to examine
the genitalia of cats might be a useful analogy. It makes no sense. When
the aliens come, I doubt if we'll have much doubt of it. They'll be a
little hard to ignore.
... Please, no deja vu; I don't want to go through that again.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 13 Jan 97 18:36:33
EID:c9c1 222d9480
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58d
DC> You seem pretty brassiere of yourself.
MH> So? You wanna make something of tit?
DC> I noticed a halter in your typing of your reply. Perhaps you
DC> need someone to underwire it and keep them separated. Cross
DC> my heart!
MH> Well, that gives me a lift.
DC> Nothing like raising a cup or two.
AS> Jog my mammary, what were we talking about? (Or better yet, jog one
AS> of Courtney Cox's mammaries...)
DC> I'll do that and perhaps get back to on how that uplifted her. }:-)
Sorry, I'm reading my kids the story of Hansel and Gretel. We just got to
the part where they got to the Gingerbread House, and the witch says,
"Nipple, nipple, like a mouse, who's been nippling at my house..."
... Freudian Slips'R'Us
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: petty shit
|Date: 13 Jan 97 18:43:46
EID:0643 222d9560
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58e
AS>> If you regarded it as junk, why did you ever bother to try to
AS>> respond
RC> Already answered that one. Have you forgotten?
AS> Force of habit or temporary insanity, I believe.
RC> So your repetition of the question was completely needless, as you
RC> obviously can remember the answer.
Then why bother to rage at me for replying to your email...in
email...which was sent by "force of habit" or "mass insanity". I made the
mistake of thinking you were in control of your faculties.
AS> Neither of which I am to blame for, surely?
RC> Did someone blame you?
Oddly enough, someone on this echo actually castigized my answering
questions sent to me in email as "junk email". Hard to believe, I know.
... "Sheesh! Try to do something nice, and you get flamed!" -- Joan of Arc
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Population Growth. [1]
|Date: 13 Jan 97 18:45:02
EID:2e67 222d95a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf58f
MB> Laurie is rather ethically challenged, isn't he?
ML> Is that PC-speak for "incredibly ignorant"?
MB> No, it's grown-up talk for "dishonest as hell."
That too.
... Do not disturb. Already disturbed.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: waiting, still
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:22:01
EID:0e59 222d9ac0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf590
AS> Simply making sure of where you stand, Robert.
RC> What does where I stand have to do with your claim that atheism
RC> contradicts itself?
Are you not an atheist?
AS> If you are not a strict materialist, what do you credit which
AS> is immaterial?
RC> Mappings and numbers, and games and relations,
RC> Regular polytopes, odd permutations,
RC> Cluster points, boundaries, fields and rings,
RC> Abstractions are some of my favorite things.
And do you believe they have an actual existence, in the Pythogorean
sense? Or are they merely labels we put on things?
AS> Then do YOU, as an atheist, conversely accept the supernatural?
RC> You forgot to say "Excellent!" (Your usual substitute for "Oops!")
That's because it was not excellent. You didn't clarify your stand.
RC> To answer your question, no, I don't believe there's a monster in
RC> the closet. You may (if you like) call me a naturalist, as opposed
RC> to a supernaturalist. The latter is a position of pointless idiocy.
Then, back to the original point. If you are a naturalist, you believe
that everything must be contained within nature...including the surity of
our conclusions. Which is a product of nature. (i.e., brain cells, for
instance.) Btu it is our brain cells that we use to reason that we have
brain cells....IF our reasoning is correct. If, OTOH, our reasoning is as
flawed as say, the math of one of those defective Pentium chips, we have
nothing to test it against. Our trusting our own inferences, if it
reflects anything real, belongs to something outside nature.
RC> Do let me know if you ever get back to your original claim that
RC> atheism somehow supposedly "contradicts itself."
See above.
AS> If you accept the supernatural...things outside nature...and yet
AS> are atheist, no, it would not be a contradiction.
RC> Do let me know if you ever get back to your original stupid claim, Al.
See above. Of course, that is not the ONLY one.
... We must believe in free will - we have no choice.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:27:04
EID:b25a 222d9b60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32daf591
JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
JH> too much more time passes.
EM> Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
EM> responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a
EM> kind.
EM> Or Yahtzee, perhaps.
Yep. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Mooth responded.
With his email address, yet! After all the spamming he's done us...hmmmm.
No, such thoughts are unChristian.
Sic 'em, guys.
(Pay attention, Leipzig and Goldberg...this IS the start of a
Schroederian conspiracy.)
... Excuse me, I have to recharge my flamethrower.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 13 Jan 97 07:49:27
EID:9c72 222d3e20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03ed
GtP>> Oh, of course. What do you think, the black lace corset or the
GtP>> purple and sequin harem outfit??
AS> The purple and sequin harem outfit would be more Frazettaish, I think.
GtP> Okay, purple and sequin it is. Now, who is gonna draw it??
Got me. I'm a reasonable good artist with pencil or pen, but I'm no
Frazetta or Boris or Bama.
... "You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you." - Inigo Montoya
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: "sucking up"
|Date: 13 Jan 97 07:52:46
EID:9c72 222d3e80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03ee
GtP>> Weellll, I do have a soft spot in my heart for Sean
GtP>> Connery. . .but, no, I'll take the honorable one who wouldn't know
a
GtP>> pass if it hit him in the head and gave him a concussion.
AS> Sounds a lot like Dave Rice's behavior at Dragonfest, the way you
AS> described it....
GtP> I think David recognizes a pass, I just think he ignores it. I could
GtP> be wrong.
You would know better than I, having met Dave and been at Dragonfest. I
have done neither.
... I was not CREATING a disturbance, I was improving one already there.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: adaption
|Date: 13 Jan 97 08:08:51
EID:0101 222d4100
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03ef
AS> Well, let's see now. The Earth has been in existence for roughly five
AS> billion years, life only (more or less) a billion.
ML> WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
ML> Al, did I tell you that you're wrong?
ML> The age of the Earth is 4.68 BY (5 BY is close enough), BUT
ML> life on Earth has been around for over 3.5 BY (1 BY is NOT
ML> close enough). Bioinformational macromolecules (prokaryotes)
ML> are amply evidenced in the Archean; indeed, they are
ML> sufficiently advanced that although so far unfound, precursor
ML> preprokaryotes probably arose some 3.8-4BYA.
ML> So there.
Look, it could be worse. I could be like some other religious minded
people and think life is only 6 thousand years old. (and the Earth. And
the Universe. And...)
... "Knowledge is ruin to my young men." -- Adolph Hitler (1889-1945) Germ
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 13 Jan 97 19:58:36
EID:c90c 222d9f40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f0
AS> would.) Philosophy (of which science was an outgrowth) BEGAN with
AS> Socrates.
CJ> Take that, Heraclitus, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Thales,
CJ> Protagoras, Anaxagoras, Parmenides, Empedocles, and Anaximenes!
CJ> If it weren't for Al, we would have been fooled into thinking you
CJ> were philosophers!
Life is full of suprises. Of course, there were great thinkers before
Socrates. But let's just look at the As, to begin with...Anaxagoras only
has a few writings that survived, thus had not a great deal of lasting
influence through the ages. Anaxagoras postulated a world composed
entirely of an indefinite number of unchanging everlasting substances.
Change is possible because each everlasting substance contains smaller
portions of all other substances. Complex organisms, he believed, are not
everlasting, through the mingling of everlasting substances throught he
activity of Mind, a force he described as unlimited as independent. Though
important to Greek thought, would it not be fair to say he was more a
theorist than strict philosopher? And that since few of his writings
survived, not much of his influence survived, either.
Anaximander is the earliest Greek thinker about whom much is known. A
pupil of Thales, he wrote a comprehensive history of the universe. His
bold use of nonmythological explanatory hypotheses radically distinguishes
his work from earlier literary cosmologies, like Hesiod's. He believed the
universe was symmetrical, the Earth remaining stable in the center because
if has no reason to move one way rather than another. He is sometimes
called the father of astronomy. Surely his inquiries are more scientific
than philosophical?
Anaximenes' primary concern is the origin and structure of the universe,
and that everything is different varieties of air, even the gods. By
rarification, air became fire...hence the suns and the stars. Again, more
scientific than strictly philosophical, wouldn't you say? And of course,
Anaximenes' writings, except for a few fragments, are lost.
Granted science is a branch of philosophy that grew and in some ways
passed its parents, and granted that there were great thinkers before
Socrates, and even granting that back then philosophers WERE scientists,
and vice versa. Still, I think the beginnings of true philosophical
thought, in the modern sense, began with Socrates. But feel free to
disagree.
... Captain Hook died yesterday of jock itch.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Re: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 13 Jan 97 08:18:03
EID:f3e1 222d4240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f1
DR> Hello Al,
Hey, Dave.
DR> I am new to the Holy Smoke echo. I used to frequent the
DR> Religious Sub on VirtualNet before I took a long hiatus from
DR> posting altogether for diverse reasons. I then decided to start
DR> posting again recently on the subject matter which I was recently
DR> smitten by while doing a little reading/research. That subject
DR> is evolution. As I got into these discussions in the Skeptical
DR> Inquiry echo, I realized that I was not satisfied with just one
DR> subject at all. What's more I was starving my philosophical
DR> side.
Well, there's some philosophy here, admidst the flaming.
DR> So, I decided to try Holy Smoke. The colloquial ambience is
DR> the same as many areas of this type that I have been in for the
DR> most part. However, I see a few that have distinguished
DR> themselves as being both active and productive in properly
DR> discussing/defending Christianity. It's most refreshing! :) You
DR> write very well and obviously have a very sharp, active mind. I
DR> wish that I had known you a while back when I was by myself
DR> dealing with Pagans and the like on VirtualNet. :)
I keep my battles pretty focused in this area. After all, this is a
TREMENDOUSLY large echo. I post in other echoes occasionally...Moorcock,
occasionally Science, or some of the alt comics groups, but much more in
here.
DR> So many of our kindred just don't get into the spirit of
DR> things in areas like this for some reason. I don't know if it's
DR> because they feel that all their efforts are "pearls before
DR> swine" or if they just don't see the value of planting the seeds
DR> that we plant in spite of that the unbelievers think. What do you
DR> think? I hope this new year is a blessed one for you thus far
DR> brother and wish you all the best.
I think a lot of them are put off by the casual blasphemy and flaming
here, and figure it's better not to bother. A lot of intelligent people
like talking about things without getting them dragged through a lot of
flaming.
Me, I'm a masochist. A lot of my arguments are part George Ellis,
part G.K. Chesterton, part C.S. Lewis, and part Dorothy L. Sayers.
Same to you concerning the new year and wishing you all the best.
... "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 13 Jan 97 08:37:34
EID:07fc 222d44a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f2
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
GT> Oxymoron.
Maybe not.
... Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 13 Jan 97 08:46:36
EID:8d4f 222d45c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f3
AS> In the words of distinguished theologian Karl Barth...
AS> (page 1) Jesus
AS> (page 2) loves
AS> (page 3) me
AS> (page 4) this
AS> (page 5) I
AS> (page 6) know,
AS> (page 7) because
AS> (page 8) The Bible
AS> (page 9) tells
AS> (page 10) me so.
AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
DC> Nice example of circular reasoning, Al. Imagine what Barth could
DC> do with a Play-n-Pull version for kids.
Actually, when asked to sum up his thinking in a few words, Barth did do
the "Jesus loves me" bit. But Ron said something about replying in ten
pages....
Obviously, I don't think the Bible is true because the Bible says so.
But it is claimed to be a mode of communication between God and Man. So
it
might be wise to examine in light of that claim, with an eye to either
debunking (the pi equals three thing, the bats as birds thing) or to
confirm it (seeing how many details are only mentioned in Acts and
Josephus, like Theudas and the Egyptian, for instance...).
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Bacteria & Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 09:04:58
EID:955e 222d4880
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f4
AS> Not so; as you keep ignoring, bacteria do mutate to
AS> resist antibiotics. That has happened to some bacteria
AS> within our lifetime.
LA> Yes indeed, but what has that got to do with Darwin's
LA> Amoeba to Man evolution? Bacteria remaining bacteria is
LA> surely an absurd argument for evolution in terms of
LA> "descent with modification of all life from one common
LA> anscestor".
Everything. The mutation in minor matters will sooner or later result in
major changes.
AS> Laurie, do you not see how insulting your view is to
AS> God? The fossil record shows that species appear for a
AS> time(reproducing after their own kind for a while) and
AS> become extinct, to be replaced by other species.
LA> The fossil record shows NO such thing of course. That is
LA> no more than a misunderstanding of it, that is dear to the
LA> heart of ATHEISTS, since they have nowhere else to go!
It doesn't? Then obviously there are still pterodactyls around, sabertooth
tigers, and woolly mammoths. Maybe in your neck of the woods, Laurie, not
mine.
AS> Does God continuously create new life forms, and has
AS> just stopped when mankind was created? Do you not see how
AS> INEFFICIENT that makes God...like a clockmaker who must
AS> continually fiddle with the hands of the clock every five
AS> minutes or so, to keep it from running too fast or too
AS> smooth? We would consider such a clockmaker a bad one.
LA> You seem to be saying that God created ALL life in the
LA> beginning and made a good job of it and has not needed to
LA> interfere since? Do I correctly understand you? That sounds
LA> very very much like Genesis read just as it is written? How
LA> utterly strange for an evolutionist?
God didn't have to do anything special to "create" life. Life is created
by virtue of the Laws He set up.
AS> I would consider such a Creator a bad one. Instead, we
AS> have a Creator who made a world which, for the most part,
AS> runs flawlessly and smoothly, as we judge a good clock to be
AS> the one that needs the least maintenance and runs flawlessly
AS> without problem.
LA> Huh? You *ARE* a real fundamentalist them aren't you? So
If you mean a believer, yes. As I have said numerous times before.
LA> please explain why you need all those absurd millions and
LA> millions of years?
What is Time to God? Why not?
... If he was a car, all of his idiot lights would be now be flashing.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Bacteria & Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 09:40:32
EID:955e 222d4d00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f5
AS> After the dinosaurs disappeared, we have EVIDENCE, via
AS> fossils, of an explosion of mammals, to fill the different
AS> niches left vacated by the dinosaurs...exactly as predicted
AS> by evolutionary theory. It is a prediction which has been
AS> borne out by the evidence.
LA> Are you now saying that God did NOT make the Dinosaurs
LA> like a good "clock maker" would do and that is why they did
LA> NOT survive?
No; I'm saying that the dinosaurs fulfilled their function for a time, and
were replaced by something else after a while. A good musician need not
play the same tune all the time.
LA> Aren't you also indulging in CIRCULAR REASONING here? On
LA> what was evolution based if it was NOT on the evidence that
LA> we had? How then can you turn around and claim that
LA> evolutionary theory PREDICTED the evidence that we already
LA> had?
It's both, Laurie. Some evidence led to evolutionary theory (which I am
SO
glad you noticed) which in turn led to further predictions.
LA> However, surely you are aware that Darwin admitted that
LA> the fossil record did NOT support evolution at the time of
LA> writing his book but that he hoped that in time we would
LA> find the evidence that was required?
And did. For evolution. Just not of nonpunctuated evolution. Greater
knowledge has led to modification of theories, as it always does.
LA> Don't you also know that evolutionists have also admitted
LA> that we have NOT found the evidence that was so desperately
LA> needed to prove evolution. i.e.
LA> "Evidence from the fossil record now points overwhelmingly
LA> away from the classical Darwinism which most Americans
LA> learned in High School; that new species evolve out of
LA> existing ones by the gradual accumulation of small changes,
LA> each of which helps the organism survive and compete in the
LA> environment."
LA> (Newsweek, 3/11/80, p. 54)
And then goes on to mention "punctuated evolution", if you had bothered
to
read the rest.
... I haven't killed anyone in... what time is it, anyway?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:15:50
EID:c3aa 222da1e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f6
AS> They are the initial conditions of the UNIVERSE, Robert.
RC> Not if you suppose a god exists, because then it would be a part
RC> of the universe.
Depends in which sense you use the word, Robert. If you're talking about
universe in the sense of "all there is" then a God is included, if there
is a God. If you are using it in the sloppier sense, as one might speak
of
alternate universes with different constants, or in the "many worlds"
sense...as a substitute, for instance, for "space-time continuum"...then
it is possible to envision a Creator outside of the space and time we
know.
RC> Thus, the question of causes for initial conditions is merely
RC> pushed back away from the observable universe to some vague
RC> phantom of imagination which has no explanation for its initial
RC> conditions.
AS> Indeed.
RC> So you agree that you aren't explaining "the initial conditions"
RC> after all. Interesting.
It's interesting how you deleted the statement after that...in which I
mentioned instead you have an unintelligent universe, with no explanation
for its initial conditions. Either way you get something with no
explanation of its initial conditions, Robert. It's what's known as a
"First Cause". The difference is I believe the First Cause is intelligent
and selected the conditions for the universe. You would perhaps maintain
the universes' initial conditions simply ARE, and that even the oddly
selected constants...falling only in the range that would allow
intelligent life...have no previous intellect to select such constants in
such specific ranges.
... When subtlety fails us, we must resort to cream pies.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:10:50
EID:08ca 222d5140
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f7
> I also wonder how we would counter a claim from the parapsychology
> crowd...how some would claim it's man's innate "psychic" powers acting
> rather than a deity. Suggestions? Not just from you, Marilyn, anyone got
DR> This claim is not so difficult to counter. Let's say for
DR> discussion's sake that man's innate psychic powers do on occasion heal
DR> him. Does this disprove God? No. If the God that created man did
so
DR> with this ability as a component placed therein, just like the ability
DR> to learn how to fix a sick/damaged body, the healing is still of God
in
DR> that the ability itself is a gift from Him. This same psychic ability,
DR> providing it does exist, did not create man so it cannot used to deny
DR> the existence of the Creator even if it does have the power to heal
a
DR> person.
Granted, it doesn't DISPROVE such. It doesn't give evidence for a God,
either. We are trying to rule out all possible influences, and I'm afraid
such a test might either be claimed both by the theistic crowd, and the
parapsychology crowd.
... I am Cthulhu of Borg, and you are in some SERIOUS trouble.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:19:43
EID:8a24 222da260
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f8
AS> You can't, and that's an excellent point. Except perhaps to
AS> think if you take a large enough group, both as a control
AS> group and the group being prayed for, that such things will
MG> A large group is getting into the realm of your discussion with Curry
MG> about the sample space. If you make your number of individuals large
MG> enough, pretty soon you have the whole population.
MG> But, as you point out, the variables here are impossible to control
MG> for.
Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether prayer
actually works or not?
... Too many people confuse free speech with loose talk.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 10:19:42
EID:fe8a 222d5260
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03f9
DC> Having seen how he treats others via his own "written word",
DC> he's a pety despot.
AS> Who incarnated Himself as one of His subjects and endured a trial and
AS> execution by them...for them?
ML>
ML> Sheesh...talk about melodramatic.
So is calling Him a "petty despot".
... May the Illuminati illuminate your eyes.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 13 Jan 97 11:07:13
EID:b97b 222d58e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03fa
AS> I stand corrected. Which is ANOTHER reason I don't keep a gun in
AS> my house. I'm not too afraid of a member of my family, in a
AS> rage, shooting me. But accidental shootings? You betcha.
MG> You should be scared of both equally.
Nyaaahhh. But I know the people involved, you don't. Being purposely shot
is not a big worry.
MG> You would be equally dead. I wonder why your god would let a two year
MG> old accidentally find a gun left out by a careless owner and shoot the
MG> owner or worse, a brother or sister.
Because we invent engines of destruction and then leave them out for
infants to play with. The same reason I didn't expect God to stop us from
atom bombing ourselves to death.
We collectively need to learn responsibility, as a race, every bit as
much as individuals do. And we will never learn it if our hands are held.
... "God bless you all and give you more sense."--Father Brown
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:21:14
EID:becf 222da2a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03fb
AS> Oh? You surprise me. What weapon is most used in violent deaths?
ML> According to the DEA (not inclusive of all homicides, but only
ML> those in the pervue of the DEA) fully automatic weapons (Uzis,
ML> the AK family, Mac's and the like) and semi-automatics (9 and
ML> 10 mm, .40 and .45 caliber) are responsible for 78% of DEA
ML> related (i.e., drug-related) homicides.
But isn't that a slightly skewed sample? One would expect drug dealers to
have better arnament than the average homicide.
AS> Is that just professional criminals (repeat offenders, say) or does
AS> that include one-time murders, first bank robberies, etc.? Not
AS> disputing you. Honestly curious.
ML> Quality handguns, particularly foreign imports, have quite well
ML> and true put paid to the old "SNS" line. The availability of
ML> relatively inexpensive and large capacity handguns have sent
ML> cheaply made 6-shot revolvers to that place where all
ML> evolutionary rejects go when natural selection rears it's head.
Just shows my gun-buying days are decades back...
ML> It's a valid analogy; the SNS was selected against. Not
ML> necessarily a *good* thing, mind you; but a valid representation
ML> of the phenomena.
Right. Why get the cheap model when you can get the one with bigger
capacity?
AS> I was about to say; there should be a lot more stressed on gun safety
AS> and precaustions.
ML> The course consists of (A.) know your weapon (it's really
ML> necessary to de-deify firearms; many people believe them to be
ML> magical), (B.) know the laws and (C.) know yourself. There are
ML> some rather graphic scenes of the results of shootings (it
ML> really didn't bother me, I was an EMT for a while in college
ML> and still an avid hunter...bullets don't merely make one fall
ML> over with a "Oh.."), the shock and horror of what high velocity
ML> bodies impacting living tissue caused more than one person to
ML> leave the course. They stress the times that deadly force can
ML> be used (it's rather amazing, it's nowhere near as restricted
ML> as most believe...particularly in Texas) and the results and
ML> ramifications of using that force.
That's MUCH better than in Tennessee, last I heard. Of course, the last
time I was interested in it was decades ago.
ML> Cast a gander at the Internet and do a Web search for "God".
ML> Simply amazing that these people can operate a computer, much
ML> less exchange gasses autonomically without daily coaching.
AS> The Leipzig school of not-making-generalizations.
ML> Enroll now.
Maybe you and the David Worrell School of Snide Remarks could become the
Styx University?
AS> Did I tell you about a former preacher of mine who visited a South
AS> American country...where the political regime was a tad
AS> oppressive...who didn't take the elementary precaution of learning a
AS> little Spanish before he went? He took a picture of a soldier
AS> (actually, of the building behind the soldier, but the soldier was in
AS> it) and walked away. The soldier called "Alto!" Not knowing it meant
AS> "stop" my preacher friend kept walking. Then he heard the rifle being
AS> cocked. He didn't need a translator for THAT. He stayed stock still,
AS> as his camera was confiscated. Yes. We did give him Spanish lessons
AS> for the next time he visited down there.
ML> A very novel, though quite effective way, of committing
ML> suicide.
Yes. At the very least, if I go to a non English-speaking country, I'm
studying a phrasebook. I hate to rely on the English-speaking skills of
others, no matter how badly I mismangle the language. (Unfortunately, my
sister is the real linguist in the family, though my Spanish is passable,
and I can read French a bit.)
ML> tours in the Nam, I tend to accept what he says about matters
ML> military as truthful.
AS>
AS> Then I will too, and stand corrected.
ML> And you're quite welcome.
No problem.
AS> I have one kid who would stay up all night if he could. Another who
AS> often wakes up at 4 am. I have heard some awfully STRANGE sounds in
AS> the middle of the night...let's just say in my particular case, I
AS> sleep a lot better for NOT having a gun in the house, locked up or no.
ML> Ah, ha! A free will choice. Allow others the same courtesy.
Right. The only problem I have is that rather haunting example of someone
smuggling a handgun into school and blowing someone's brains out...by
accident. But, then, nothing is safe. A woman was sleeping peacefully and
had a meteorite fall and wound her thigh.
ML> True. Truth be told, I fear an idiot with a straight razor (now
ML> seen making a comeback in local gangs) more than firearms.
AS>
AS> I think it was Dorothy Sayers who had one of his characters get out
AS> of a duel by his choice of weapons..."He didn't like my choice of
AS> weapons. A firearm MIGHT hit someone. A dueling saber usually WILL."
ML> ICBM's at 6.023E+07 paces...
I always liked fencing, even though I was too slow to be any good at it.
Back to John Carter/D'Artagnan fantasies, I guess...
AS> But if there were a law against them, there would be a rough decade
AS> or two...and the old ones would fall into disuse, and be unable to be
AS> repaired or replaced...and things would become a lot safer.
ML> Guns don't have all that many moving parts and Al, there are
ML> millions floating around. A well maintained gun will last
ML> generations.
He says, getting his Puritan flintlock off the mantlepiece...
AS> My father's died, and my mother's uninterested in guns, so I was not
AS> aware of Texas' laws about that. (They live/lived in Houston.)
ML>
ML> It's here, enacted for over a year.
Good to know. Considering the crime rate in Houston, last I heard, it was
needed.
AS> Yes. Who get sucked into it usually when they are younger. But it's
AS> true that restricting handguns won't stop gangs. They'll just go to
AS> chains or some other offensive weapon.
ML> Then we try to legislate them away? Put some teeth into the
ML> existing laws; don't go around adding more flotsam to the
ML> judaical system.
Sure, add some teeth to it. But that's a double-edged sword. If the law
is
TOO harsh and unyielding, the judge has little discretion...and if it
seems to harsh in a particular case, he will try to let them off on a
technicality. Too often too harsh a law results in the person getting off
scott-free.
AS> Good for him! (And arguing against my own position...I suppose one
AS> could make a case that rifles have caused more catastrophic change in
AS> the US. Look at Lee Harvey Oswald and James Earl Ray and what THEY did
AS> with rifles, and the change it made on society...yet I don't want to
AS> ban rifles...)
ML> That'll be (a la the 'slippery slope') next.
And of course, that's a danger too...
AS> I believe you. It's hard not to think of the USSR as a single,
AS> Eurasian nation anymore. I guess I'm showing my age...
ML> So's your .gif...
If you're ever in Nashville, look me up, and then see if I look much older
than my .gif.
AS> The guns will eventually fall into disuse if they were baned
AS> altogether, save those taken or robbed from military installations.
If
AS> we make it a mere matter of education, they will still be in
AS> circulation. As for the criminal element, obviously this will not
AS> affect them greatly, save to compound felonies when caught.
ML> Indeed. Put some teeth into existing laws and enforce them.
ML> That and education will eventually be THE answer.
As long as you don't make it so harsh that judges look for ways to let
offenders off.
ML> Education does seem to be the key; that's what I stress in the
ML> gun safety courses I've taught.
AS> Good.
ML> And I continue to do so.
Glad to hear it.
... He who laughs, lasts.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Christians v Guns [2]
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:42:14
EID:74a5 222da540
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03fc
MB> With any care at all, a gun virtually lasts forever. And, to
MB> top it off, anybody with rudimentary skills can make a fairly
MB> workable gun in his basement with nothing more than a lathe
MB> and patience. In fact, you don't even need the lathe; the
MB> "hoods" in the 60's made zipguns in tenements, with nothing
MB> more than the will to do so.
AS> Interesting. Are zipguns a big problem in European countries, such as
AS> England, where personal firearms are more controlled?
ML> Nope, as gun control laws only affect the law abiding. It may
ML> keep firearms out of the hands of those who follow law; but
ML> guns (on the black market) are quite available. Ever hear of a
ML> little place called Belfast?
Sure. Do they use zipguns for the most part?
AS> -!- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
ML> Has it been 30 days all ready?
No, and here I have been dragging my heels. I paid for registration
something like two years ago. You may remember where I offered to send
SLMR to another Christian because he would never register? Well, Barb
tried to use Blue Wave to pull down her email messages a month or two ago,
when her Eudora was giving her fits (our BBS was our email provider, so
that worked) and couldn't make it work. (She uses Blue Wave about as oftne
as I do Eudora...i.e., not at all.) She got mad and started deleting the
file she pulled down, and deleted the wrong thing. Realizing her mistake,
she repulled Blue Wave down from a local BBS, a nonregistered version, of
course...
And then realized our registration number had been burned up in the fire
last year.
So we have made two calls to Blue Wave, trying to convince them that
even though our address has changed somewhat, and we don't have the
registration number any more, yes, this IS the same Al Schroeder who
registered it quite a while ago. (That's also why I didn't upgrade to 2.2
when it came out, since I didn't have the registration number.)
Well, whatever. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pay the
registration fee again, otherwise appear like a hypocrite. But I offer as
proof a post from months back...
(begin quote)
Ä Area: fido.holysmoke ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Msg#: 914 Date: 11-05-96 02:02
From: Al Schroeder Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: Robert Curry Mark: Save
Subj: ORIGINAL QUESTION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
... Infinity is just time on an ego trip.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Ä Area: fido.holysmoke ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Msg#: 916 Date: 11-05-96 04:02
From: Al Schroeder Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: Robert Curry Mark: Save
Subj: OPI
(end quote)
To validate that I had registered. I know it's not very much. I just hate
paying again for something I paid before. Still, if it must be, it must
be.
But I did want Christmas to be safely over, so my kids would have the best
Christmas possible. I'm sending out for my registration...make that my
RE-registration...tonight, since I can't convince them otherwise.
... If you see any misspelled words it HAS to be line noise.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 13 Jan 97 12:59:08
EID:3376 222d6760
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03fd
AS> Indeed. But there is ALSO the chance that the dealer, knowing
AS> your birthday, was adroit enough with the cards to shuffle
AS> them that way. Correct? It would be especially interesting if
AS> that was the only hand you had ever been dealt in your life,
AS> and will ever be dealt. (As the constants we observe are the
AS> only ones that have existed in the universe's timespan.)
MB> You are assuning that. How do you know it's true? How do you know
MB> there hasn't been an infinite number of universes before this one,
MB> and an infinite number of universes that will exist after this one
MB> is sucked into a humongous black hole? You are making a very basic
MB> assumption without one shred of evidence.
A infinitely oscillating universe will run out of steam, it's been shown.
So we can't have an infinite amount of previous or succeeding universes.
And an infinite amount of hypothetical, unevidenced universes, to explain
the one universe we observe, is a lousy explanation, and would be cut out
by Occam's razor...or rather, should be accepted only if there is no other
explanation that will fit. An explanation, for instance, with only ONE
hypothetical, unproven entity (a Creator say) should be accepted before
one that has BILLIONS of hypothetical, unproven entities. (Billions of
alternative universes.)
... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:00:02
EID:a69f 222d6800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03fe
DC> Use your imagination, Al. Assume that the rapture occured and
DC> you didn't make the cut.
There are days where that wouldn't surprise me.
... Die smiling, life is too important to take seriously.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: coincidence one
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:24:35
EID:f612 222da300
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db03ff
RC> And the odds for this particular combination?
AS> Got me. I assume random shuffling out of a 52-card deck.
RC> It is only to be expected that you haven't a clue, given your evident
RC> misperceptions regarding elementary probability, Al.
Tsk, tsk. It almost matches your misconceptions about cosmology.
AS>> And you realize that your birthday is Oct. 27th, 1953.
RC> Except that it's not. Sorry. Though that could possibly be
RC> "spooky" for superstitious people who *were* born on that day,
AS> *Sigh* Use your imagination, Robert.
RC> Get a decent education, Al, rather than just spouting off nonsense.
RC> Unless that is prohibited by your religious dogma.
As it was prohibited for Newton, Lemaitre, Lewis, Sayers, Tolkien,
Williams...?
And are you prohibited by...what? Your prejudices? From using your
imagination?
AS> Assume, for an instant, that it is.
RC> Why?
For the sake of the example? But as you wish. After all, according to
those who study the non-science of astrology, it would make you with a sun
sign of Scorpio, with a clear penetrating mind, and sexually attractive
to
the opposite sex. Perhaps you are wise to decline such, even for the sake
of the example. It would be too much of a stretch.
RC> I take it that you've decided to back off away from your ignorant
RC> belief that a royal flush is "less random" than the above hand.
RC> Is that correct?
AS> Hmmm. Where did I say the hand dealt above is less random than a
AS> royal flush? Specifically?
RC> You didn't say that the hand dealt above was less random; you said
RC> that a royal flush would be "less random."
Than the above hand? That IS what you said, Robert. Where did I say that?
RC> Nice backpeddle, though.
Yes, yours is.
... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Credit Cards
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:08:38
EID:15af 222d6900
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0400
DC> (Pesonally, I'd hold out for the private lessons from
DC> Shalla Bahl!)
AS> Especially as drawn by John Buscema. (Rrrrrrrr!!!) It's Shalla Bal
DC> He was probably their best artist.
He certainly was a fine one; although I preferred Barry Windsor-Smith on
Conan.
AS> BTW, but don't mind me, I'm a comic purist. And a lot of fans would
AS> have liked to have her ask, "shalla bal?"
DC> Fer sure! Then, too, I think he also drew the Belit series for
DC> Conan. I think they were probably the best of the lot.
Just as the original Belit story was probably the best of the original
Robert E. Howard stories.
... There's no future in time travel.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:20:14
EID:d138 222d6a80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0401
GtP>> That is about to change. We are setting her up a point with a spell
GtP>> checker.
AS> Ahhh, the Todd family is like the Hydra of Greek legend. Insult one,
and
AS> two pop up... not exactly what David was aiming for, is it?
GT> {chuckle}
Well, it caused ME to smile, too...
... Rejoice evermore. (1 The 5:16)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:24:49
EID:f484 222d6b00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0402
AS> Ahhh, the Todd family is like the Hydra of Greek legend. Insult one,
and
AS> two pop up... not exactly what David was aiming for, is it?
GtP> Indeed. And there are more who haven't joined the fray,
GtP> but who are thinking about it. Matthew, who is too young to be
GtP> exposed without supervision, has some choice things to say to David.
GtP> Imagine my surprise that he would defend his sib, who he claims to
GtP> hate. Sibs. . .ahhh, joy.
Of course, they hate each other, but watch out if an OUTSIDER picks on
them. Me and my brother were the same way. (And my two autistic sons, they
have a sibling rivalry, all the more funny for being nonverbal.) Nobody
in
my family who can use a computer beside myself are interested in HS. So
I'll be the solitary Schroeder here.
GtP> As I said last night, I imagine this will all blow over in a week or
GtP> so and JJ and David will find others to harass. It seems to be
GtP> cyclical. This is the second or third time JJ has decided to flame
GtP> the "witch freaks".
As opposed to the "Jesus freaks" where it is always open season to
flame...(not specifically JJ, who is relatively nice about it, even if he
thinks we're crazy). I suspect every so often the dichotomy between
flaming Christians for their "superstitious beliefs" and not flaming
pagans for theirs occasionally gets to them.
... I was sane once. Didn't particularly care for the experience.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: feed
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:32:42
EID:ed5a 222d6c00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0403
DC> The building inspector is still wondering why my kitchen has
DC> lead-lined walls.
AS> And a bomb shelter, no doubt...
DC> LOL! Funny you should mention that... There's a place across
DC> the Bay that does metal 'welding' by dynamiting the different
DC> metals. They don't do it often, but they usually do it on
DC> my days off and this place shakes!
Right when you're making a souffle, right?
... She attracts me like a magnet, Tom said ironically.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Fredric the Troll
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:37:43
EID:1904 222d6ca0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0404
rm> And you have about the same level of ethics as Appleton too.
rm> If you have something to say to me, address it to me, Fred.
FR> Neat! Now I'm a Creationist troll.
as> Nyaahhhh. Just a troll.
FR> Whatever I may or may not be, the important thing is that unlike you
I
FR> don't suffer from willful self-deception and delusional thinking. In
How would you know? If you are self-deceived and delusional, you would,
ipso facto, be the last one to judge accurately.
FR> the broad scheme of things, whatever else I might be, I win, and you
FR> lose.
Ahhhh. PLEASE tell me how much better off you are than me. I could use the
laugh.
FR> ~*~ EVERYONE FROM THE SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST. - Christopher
FR> Calabrese
I don't usually comment on taglines, but what the hey, since it was
obviously to get my goat. All I can say is that you just also maligned
Robert Curry, David Worrell, Mike Hardy, and many another participant
here. Me, I'm laughing at you.
My sister in France is also.
... I love oral sex......it's the phone bill I hate!!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:39:07
EID:ee7e 222d6ce0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0405
GtP>> BETWEEN the bones, Al. It was supposed to be the fulfillment of
GtP>> prophesy that no bones were broken.
AS> Right you are. I stand corrected.
GtP> I just can't stand to see it recounted wrong, even if it is a myth
GtP> from my pov.
I feel the same way about Norse mythology, which I know pretty well, too.
... I was the next door kid's imaginary friend.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: GET SPECIFIC
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:45:35
EID:9e07 222d6da0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0406
GtP>> then a nonseqitur. Guess it's only fair. We took Michael. I think
GtP>> we got the better deal.
AS> You did indeed.
AS> Unfortunately.
GtP> Well, maybe I can pretend to be Christian for awhile so you have some
GtP> intelligent company. I was thinking that I am probably the best
GtP> person I knew to start another sect of xtianity that was based totally
GtP> on the alledged teachings of Jeshua and were more woman friendly.
May I suggest you read the writings of Dorothy L. Sayers, if you do?
Thirties' mystery writer, translator of Dante, poet, playwright, feminist,
and Christian apologist.
... History repeats itself when nobody listens.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:27:31
EID:4a1b 222da360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0407
AS> Are you aware there is a superheroine of that same name? (DC's Teen
AS> Titans, early eighties...)
GT> Yep. Appropriate. Maybe we should research it. (I never
GT> collected DC.)
Alien from a planet around Vega, an alien babe in a skimpy costume who can
fly and throw off energy blasts, and had a thing for Robin/Dick
Grayson/Nightwing. Not inhibited. When she wanted to change to her
costume, not realizing the mores of Earth, did so right in front of a
VERY interested older guy on a bench waiting for a bus.
... "Always Ask the Next Question!" --Theodore Sturgeon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Starfire
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 13 Jan 97 13:56:35
EID:7efd 222d6f00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0408
AS> Are you aware there is a superheroine of that same name? (DC's Teen
AS> Titans, early eighties...)
St> Actually I hadn't heard I got my name from the song Star Fire from
St> Minus ten and Counting. Hows life in Florda?
Ahhh, I see. The comics Starfire was an alien, uninhibited, female, and
beautiful.
As for life in Florida, I think you may have me confused with another.
Curry and the departed-from-the-echo Jesse Jones post from Florida, I hail
from Nashville, Tennessee.
... If everything seems to go right, check your zipper!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:00:06
EID:2941 222d7000
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0409
>> John Jeanneault
FR>> Is calling for the distruption of a FidoNet echo
FR>> an actionable offence or does the resentful fascist
FR>> Nazi Christian have to actually do it first?
DR> A single call to the offending BBS from Styx would
DR> end the problem. Therefore, why would the fundy bother?
SQ> Perhaps a call to Fido HQ is in order?
ML> It is time to have Al call his family.
They are denying any relationship like mad.
... I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:07:55
EID:d40d 222d70e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040a
FR> He's turning into a metafundy. He wants to make things which are
FR> manifest in existance equal to those which are not and then attribute
FR> belief to both.
No; I'm pointing out that belief is necessary even to what we experience,
in what is manifast. To Joan of Arc, voices from Heaven are manifast. Do
you accept those implicitedly? Everything you "know" you perceive by your
senses. Are your senses always right?
Can you show evidence that anything but "I" exists? That there is
anything beyond, "I think, therefore I am"? I'm sorry if the word BELIEF
offends you so. Nevertheless, it is the only one that fits.
... Anything is possible, unless it's not.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:47:31
EID:0d2b 222da5e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040b
RC> Of course not, as having *belief* in that which is right
RC> in front of you has to be the most superfluous thing I've
RC> ever heard of.
AS> Indeed.
RC> So are you finished with the ridiculous "you do so have belief"
RC> thread?
Not exactly. How do you distinguish between individual hallucination of
what is in front of you, and the real thing? And you can't appeal to the
testimony of others, because you might be hallucinating THEM too...
AS> Of course, I know a person who thinks he sees angels and
AS> God right in front of him.
RC> Get any interesting descriptions?
Quite a few. He saw God all in a cloud, a cloud draped over Him like a
loincloth. And blue. Like I said, the sixties were pretty good to this
individual. Plus, I suspect him of using memories of Zeus in Disney's
FANTASIA, the "Pastoral Symphony" sequence.
AS> If a leprauchaun popped up right in front of you, would you
AS> credit it?
RC> Sure, why not?
Then doubtless you think David Copperfield performs ACTUAL violations of
the laws of physics, rather than sleight of hand and tricks? That he
really made, for instance, the Statue of Liberty disappear.
I wonder if we will hear, "B-b-but that's DIFFERENT!"
How?
AS> Daisy the pink flying hippo?
RC> She's invisible.
Very well, Daffodil, her visible flying pink hippo cousin.
AS> You implicitedly credit the evidence of your senses in all
AS> cases, no matter HOW unlikely?
RC> Certainly. Note that this does not involve any *belief* however.
Than how can you tell apart individual hallucination from reality?
AS> Do you believe all your dreams were actual occurences,
RC> No, I don't "believe" anything about them. You don't listen well.
Let me try it another way. What distinguishes your dreams from your waking
life? How do you distinguish which is real?
AS> or do you believe (as I do) that they are temporary mental
AS> states that have no bearing on reality?
RC> Again, no belief on the matter. And dreams do have a bearing on
RC> reality, even if only on the reality of a person's mental state.
Do you then, think that one falling in a dream is in as much danger as one
falling in real life? And how do you distinguish the two?
AS> And are you sure you are not dreaming right now, and by what
AS> criteria do you determine that?
RC> My dreams are never as boring as your posts.
Cute, but unresponsive. And why do you waste so much time responding to
someone you consider so "boring"? You address me much more than anyone
else on the echo. Methinks thou doth protest too much...
AS> Are you still sure it is superfluous?
RC> Quite.
Then if you had a dream about winning a million dollars, would you then
wake up and write checks drawing upon that million dollars?
Why or why not? How do you determine the difference between the two?
... It's what you learn AFTER you know it all, that counts!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: humor...........
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:36:06
EID:6717 222d7480
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040c
AS> Of course, we may be closer to the Three Stooges...
GT> Y'mean Daddy-O, Junior, and Spookie?
It's odd how the trinity motif reoccurs. Odin and his two brothers shaped
the existing Midgard out of the remains of Ymir...
... Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:41:16
EID:aa53 222d7520
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040d
ch> I'm not Lutheran, but most Tuesday nights I go alone into a local
ch> Lutheran chapel to pray. Always voluntarily. If you don't go
ch> voluntarily, you're wasting both your, and God's, time.
FR> No Christanic death cultist ever thinks at their deity constructs
"thinks at"? Excuse me, while I telepathically send a message to
Jehovah...
FR> willingly. They do so out of fear and resentment. The fear of death
FR> is underscored with the fear of "eternal torment." Towards the ends
FR> of avoiding this pretend problem, they pretend to believe.
FR> Wants some quotes? I can produce a dozen which show why death
FR> cultists cling to their cult.
Please do.
I have a quote file full of people like Dorothy L. Sayers, Charles
Williams, G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien.
Wanna bet I can produce two dozen for every dozen you produce that do
not depend on fear and resentment, but love and gratitude?
... I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:02:55
EID:1ba3 222d7840
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040e
AS> The eyes are by far the most expressive parts of the face, and often
AS> the "window of the soul". I notice something else in common with the
AS> above...they're all knockout brunettes. Personally, although there
DC> Strange, now that you mention it.... Bernie's got brown hair, too.
DC> And, as in the previous message, I rate her above the above!
Blondes may have more fun, but brunnettes are more fun to be fun with!
AS> are many beautiful blonde women, I notice in me a tendency to be more
AS> attracted to brunnettes. (And yes, Barb is a brunette, very dark
DC> Well, there are a couple of Crystals that I know that are quite
DC> attractive, and a couple of Wendys, but one of them has black hair!
And there are certainly some blondes that I would give a second look to...
... Veni Vidi Fetuccini: I came, I saw, I had lunch.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:30:47
EID:b5b6 222da3c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db040f
AS> I'm not at all afraid of it. And as we see, you understood me.
RC> Certainly I understood you -- you were the one asking for elucidation,
RC> if you recall. I even spent some moments providing support for the
RC> rather trivial claim that I made, which you for some reason had
RC> trouble accepting, even though you know that I do not make mathematical
RC> claims lightly -- and never without the ability to back them up, unless
RC> I say so in the first place. I'm very conscious of these things.
Good to know.
AS> Good to know you can actually back up your claim. The way you
AS> were going all into offended mode for my asking, I was beginning
AS> to wonder...
RC> "Offended mode?" A touch of exasperation, perhaps, at your seemingly
RC> willful ignorance every time I mention the existence of multiple
RC> instances or answers, and you demand to see "THE" instance or answer.
RC> In this thread, it was the infinite number of patterns -- inspiring
RC> you to demand evidence of "THE" pattern.
And later "a pattern".
AS> now, a question. In these numerous patterns of pi, after the
AS> 10,000th decimal point, can you predict, say, any three numbers
AS> in sequence in the next hundred numbers after that?
RC> Certainly they can be calculated, yes. The best sort of prediction
RC> one can possibly manage.
Hmmm.
AS> Or in the next thousand numbers?
RC> Again, yes.
Good, good.
AS> Without looking it up,
RC> Obviously yes. How do you think it's possible to look it up in the
RC> first place? Because it was first possible to calculate.
So you do so only by brute calculation of each successive digit of pi, or
by following the dictates of the pattern? Just curious.
AS> if there have been that many digits of the determination
AS> of pi printed out?
RC> Check Yahoo. Over a million digits of the decimal expansion of pi
RC> have been calculated, and are available on the Web, if you happen
RC> to be interested.
Thank'ee kindly.
AS> By a pattern alone, or no? Just wondering. Answer back or not
AS> as you wish.
RC> It could be done using the pattern I provided for you above, even
RC> though that's a terribly inefficient numerical method, yes. There
RC> are other patterns better suited to efficient calculation of a
RC> decimal (or any other radix) representation.
Good to know.
RC> Although this answers your follow-up question as stated, I suspect
RC> that you may be having some difficulty asking what you mean to ask,
RC> which could possibly be related to some confusion about patterns.
Oh? What sort of confusion?
RC> Feel free to continue with further follow-up questions as you wish,
RC> and so long as you remember to say please and thank you I will be
RC> delighted to assist.
Please read THE ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE by Tipler and Barrow.
Thank you.
Please read BEFORE THE BEGINNING, by George Ellis. Thank you.
Please read COSMIC COINCIDENCES, by Gribbin and Rees. Thank you.
Please read GOD AND THE NEW PHYSICS and THE MIND OF GOD, by Paul Davies.
Thank you.
... My mind isn't always in the gutter--sometimes it comes out to feed.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:31:08
EID:e64f 222d7be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0410
DC> Never read that. However, I did read Asimov's short story on Entropy.
AS> Title? Asimov wrote so much...
DC> _Entropy_
Ahhhh...then I HAVE read that one. But it's like saying Asimov's short
books on robots, as opposed to "I, Robot".
I liked it when the computer said, "Let there be light". There was an
interesting story by Poul Anderson, somewhat adapting some of Tipler's
Omega Point ideas, where a person linked with a computer to see the
future of the universe. One who tried that went nearly mad, with despair,
as he saw the universe eventually falling apart expanding, dying a heat
death...but another who linked with the computer and went a little
further, saw a light at the end of the universe...and a message. "You
have forgotten your descendents, and the changes WE can make in the
universe." I.E., our distant descendents would have the technology to make
even changes in the entire cosmos, and determine the fate of the universe.
... Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: into my parlor
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:45:24
EID:74a6 222d7da0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0411
AS> Sarcasm deaf. Not surprised.
RC> If you wish to believe others are deaf, you have the right to delude
RC> yourself. Freedom of religion, and all that. In any case, my response
RC> to your childish verbiage was sincere.
Oh, of COURSE it is, Robert.
AS> What error? I asked you to back up your assertion.
RC> Exactly, when I asserted you were in error about pi. Hello? Anyone
RC> home?
What error? I asked for a pattern. Or the pattern.
AS> And rob myself of such priceless entertainment? By no means.
RC> Not only entertaining, but educational as well, if you are actually
RC> listening and manage to retain the information being imparted.
Which seems more than one can say of you.
AS> Then why get all offended how I ask you?
RC> The boorishness that characterizes many of your posts is more
RC> tiresome than offensive, Al. I have never been offended by anything
RC> expressed here (by you or anyone else). My suggestions were to help
RC> you become less boorish in your behavior. Follow them or not, as you
RC> prefer.
Coming from one who regularly characterizes others as "morons", one can
only wonder if you recognize everyone's boorishness but your own.
AS> Thank you for stepping in it. Period.
RC> You really should clean up after yourself when you leave such messes
RC> around, you know. It would only be sanitary.
I know, but I couldn't get the bedpan under you in time.
... This tagline does not exist. Provide evidence otherwise.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 13 Jan 97 15:47:55
EID:94fa 222d7de0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0412
Could be. As you see, I answer a lot a day. But 400??? He may be just
AS> getting junk email...
ML> And ye shall reap what you sow...
Haven't heard much from The British Supermensa lately. Wonder why?
... I am NOT a cynic - I just remember last time too well!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:33:54
EID:a805 222da420
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32db0413
RC> No "domain theory" does that, either. Are you really so DENSE, Al?
AS> I notice in what you reprinted, you did not reprint your actual
AS> statement...which I reproduced...yet again...for all to see.
RC> You need me to hold your hand through this? OK, if you really want to:
AS> ---------------------------------------------------
AS>> There is NO EVIDENCE for those other domains, Robert.
AS>
AS> Yet their logical possibility helps to define the probabilistic
AS> sample space.
RC> Where's the "domain theory" in that, Al? Where did I say that any
RC> "doamin theory" helped to define anything? Are you really so stupid?
The logical POSSIBILITY of domains--i.e., domains are not proven, but
remain a THEORY..."helps to define the probabilistic sample space".
AS> Did you not write the above? We were certainly talking about
AS> domains.
RC> You were babbling about domains, yes. I was pointing out that logical
RC> possibilites help to define a probabilistic sample space. There was
Robert. Again. What does "their" refer to? In response to "those other
domains" it is fair to assume you were referring to those other domains.
Were you not?
RC> no mention of any "domain theory" until after you introduced that
RC> entirely misleading and misrepresentative phrase into the thread much
RC> later on.
Excuse me? We were discussing domains. I specifically said that there was
no evidence for such. That makes them---surprise!--THEORETICAL, right?
RC> Logical possibilities help to define sample spaces, yes.
RC> You may give up the ridiculous misrepresentation that I ever said
RC> a "domain theory" helped to do ANYTHING.
Then WHAT are you referring to below as "their" logical possibility "helps
to define the probabilistic sample space"?
AS> ---------------------------------------------------
AS>> There is NO EVIDENCE for those other domains, Robert.
AS>
AS> Yet their logical possibility helps to define the probabilistic
AS> sample space.
RC> Or you may continue as Al B.
Or you may continue to kneejerk. Making yourself look more and more
ridiculous....
... I was not CREATING a disturbance, I was improving one already there.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GEORGE MOOTH
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:01
EID:b26e 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a0b
TID: GE/2 1.2
RS> Isn't that mental enslavery, Moothy?
GM> We are all in mental salavery.
All those who choose the mental slavery of religious dogmatism, yes.
So your masters have finally allowed you to speak! How intriguing.
GM> You just have to choose who you want to be the slave of.
Not likely.
We aren't all trapped in your madhouse of make believe, George.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:02
EID:fb52 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a0c
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Dave Hamilton
with: Brian Shreve
BS> And this "child" as you say now must go through life knowing
BS> its mother didn't want him or her.
DH> Any adopted child goes through this, genius.
MB> Absolutely false. Many adopted children were wanted very,
MB> very much, but the unwed mother knew she was incapable
MB> of giving the child what all children need: opportunity
MB> (which requires a certain income level), and two parents
MB> in a stable home environment.
Not to mention that adopted children are wanted by those who do
adopt them. That's more than can be said of some who aren't adopted.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Goodbye
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:03
EID:5c01 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a0d
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Brother Jesse praying for all our souls
AS>> Thanks, mine could use all the prayer I can get.
RC>> Would you like ME to pray for you, too?
AS> I'd be delighted.
RC> Let me know when you receive the Twelve Revelations from the GDO.
ML> "GDO"? You still waiting for him?
Since he never leaves Pluto, it would appear so. That's why so many
people don't realize he's a She.
We won't even mention She has twelve heads and created the universe.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: More grist from the web
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:04
EID:8827 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a0e
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: God Dan
AS>> Asking forgiveness is extortion???
DC> It is when the alternative is an eternity of pain and suffering.
AS> Or an eternity of bliss and happiness.
The New, Improved version of your religion's notion of Hell?
Delightful. Sign me up, please.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Afraid of mortality?
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:05
EID:d94a 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a0f
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS>> Not necessarily. It may be like telling a fetus that there
AS>> is a life beyond the womb. They think of it only in terms of
AS>> the life they knew, and be ignorant of the possibilities out
AS>> there.
RH> I still like my maggot theory. Fits the facts better .
AS> Could be. Or we could be caterpillars, about to turn into
AS> butterflies...
Or roses...
Look to the blowing Rose about us -- "Lo,
Laughing," she says, "into the world I blow,
At once the silken tassel of my Purse
Tear, and its Treasure on the garden throw."
And those who husbanded the Golden grain,
And those who flung it to the winds like Rain,
Alike to no such aureate Earth are turn'd
As, buried once, Men want dug up again.
. . . . . . . . . .
Alike for those who for TO-DAY prepare,
And those that after some TO-MORROW stare,
A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries,
"Fools! your Reward is neither Here nor There."
Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so wisely -- they are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:06
EID:c683 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a10
TID: GE/2 1.2
FR> The whole point is that thinking at deities _always_ results in
FR> answers to people's prayers -- and it doesn't matter which gods
FR> one thinks at. A contest would prove the point and I think
FR> that's why the intended fundy didn't take bait. He knows that
FR> one could pray at a table cloth and get an answer.
Don't forget: Sometimes the tablecloth's answer is "No."
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: fucked up priorities
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:07
EID:bf58 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a11
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Jesus came not to heal the well, but the sick, to help those
AS> in need, not those not in need of a physician.
Whereas the church exists to maintain the sickness of the sick,
and to try everything in its power to spread the sickness of religious
superstition where healthy people do without it just fine.
BTW, where is Jesus when little children are raped right before his
allegedly all-seeing eyes?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 143/1 147/34 2021
SEEN-BY: 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GLEN TODD
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:08
EID:1976 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a12
TID: GE/2 1.2
MB>> Isn't there something in POLICY 4 about being excessively
MB>> annoying?
GT>> Styx, you paying attention?
RC> Don't forget the other half -- about not being so easily annoyed.
GT> _I'm_ not annoyed -- I'm laughing.
GT> I just wanted to know if Styx was paying attention.
Oh, do you suppose he likes soap operas, then? Or is this more like
a twinkie opera?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: TIGER EYES
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:09
EID:1aa4 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a13
TID: GE/2 1.2
TE> Not all of us are like you J.J.....I mean when your parents
TE> dumped you off a the local orphanage, for being a freak of
TE> humanity, they really didn't know that you would be so hurt
TE> by it. I feel so sorry for your parents.
On a scale of 1 to 10, this flame has a 0.03 rating.
Don't you have any goofy pagan curses to fling about? That would
be far more entertaining.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:10
EID:b620 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a14
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> I simply pointed out that your daughter was overweight.
DW> Your reaction, your husband's reaction, and Marilyn's
DW> reaction showed just how truly *uncomfortable* with your
DW> respective weights all of you are.
MB> Gwen, this is an out-and-out lie, and the lying sack of shit
MB> knows it. I TOLD HIM the reason I spoke up: it was because
MB> he was ragging on the two of you about something you could do
MB> nothing about.
People can do nothing about how comfortable or uncomfortable they
may feel about various trivial personal characteristics?
I'm afraid I'm becoming addicted to this series of "How the Echo
Turns" -- rather frightening, since the whole thing is utterly
stupid. Then again, that's my opinion of religion, as well -- so
maybe the echo is really about religion and OTHER stupid things.
MB> And, I regard that as chicken shit -- especially when he
MB> knows full well that the topic is one that will certainly
MB> push your buttons because you're the parents of the subject
MB> in question.
Chicken shit? Nah, he's just being an ass. Trying for the trophy,
I imagine.
I'm not sure what kind of trophy goes to a parent who deliberately
exposes a child to flames, and then SHOWS the resulting flames
to the child, encouraging her to retaliate with beginner flames
which serve no purpose but to escalate the idiocy at the child's
expense.
What would you suggest?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MIMI MILSTEIN
|Sub: Five of a sponge
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:11
EID:b606 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a15
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: J.J. Hitt
JJH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
JJH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one
JJH> before too much more time passes.
MM> I like them all :-)
MM> The last one surely comes under the more miraculous stuff,
MM> like when Jesse Jones makes his triumphant re-entry in HS
MM> as a born-once-again-Buddhist.
Holy fucking shit -- if that happens, I'll drop by your delightful
country to eat sponge cats with Steve Hayes.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:12
EID:46b4 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a16
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Gwenny the Pooh
GTP> Okay. Who in this echo sleeps naked and wants to share a room
GTP> with two pagan women.
KW> Are you trying to start a stampede? Well, it's one way
KW> to sort out the boys from the men...
Ahem. Is this going to be a convention event?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT
|Sub: feed
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:13
EID:8ade 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a17
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that
DW> the Pie was all they had to worry about. Was she lying, or
DW> am I somehow special? :)
RC> The first treats are to lure you into a false sense of complacency.
RC> Best to accept them all, graciously, then surreptitiously
RC> dispose of the pie while no one is looking. Or bestow it upon
RC> another worthy recipient.
KW> LOL!! You weren't supposed to catch on to that so fast!
Sure I was.
I just wasn't supposed to give it away to those who didn't catch on
right away. Sorry. Time to fall back on Plan B.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:14
EID:c04c 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a18
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC>> I never received my Secret Atheist Undergound instruction manual.
SQ>> Call 1-800-RICEBRO for your copy.
rc> I tried that already, but all I got was a spell checking
rc> program mailed to me that changes correctly spelled words
rc> to the Fred Rice variants.
FR> Just think, with the way things are going in the United States,
FR> _my_ way will eventually become the standard way. }:-}
Then I most assuredly *WILL* shoot you.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Why you NEED to be bashed
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:15
EID:f2d8 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a19
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Gwenny the Pooh
JS> All that in addition to being a male bashing man hater?
Feeling a bit dented, clown?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: STUART LUMGAIR
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:16
EID:6959 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1a
TID: GE/2 1.2
SL> As I recall from my math courses, a long time ago, zero
SL> is not included in one of the number sets.
Many numbers are not members of more restricted sets. Pi is not
included in the algebraic numbers. The square root of five is
not included in the rational numbers. Similarly, zero is not part
of the set of positive integers.
SL> Zero is a lack of any numbers.
Only if pi is the lack of any numbers, too, by the same misguided
and faulty reasoning.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:17
EID:1d63 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1b
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Dan Ceppa
JB> We don't now grant 'standard reality' to "infinitesimals" in
JB> math;
You are again full of shit, John. Why are you pretending to be an
authority on the subject when you so clearly lack even a rudimentary
understanding of it? Is your ego getting the better of you?
JB> there is no infinitely large number,
Actually, there are many.
Infinities comes in different sizes.
Also, there is a smallest, but no largest.
JB> Does +1 change what it was added to? (yes) Does 0 change
JB> what it was added to? (no) Does _any_ nonzero number change
JB> the number it is added to? (yes) Does zero? (no)
Try multiplication. Then ONE serves as the identity element.
Does that mean it's not a number, either? After all, you seem
to be saying that zero is "not a number" because it is the
additive identity element of a ring.
Why treat the multiplicative identity element differently?
Does 0 change what it was multiplied by? (yes) Does 1 change what
it was multiplied by? (no) Does _any_ nonsingular number change
the number it is multiplied by? (yes) Does one? (no)
JB> I just doubt its "number"-ness. ;)
Thank you, Humpty Dumpty.
Of what possible use is your insistence that all the mathematicians
are wrong while you -- the Quantum Crackpot -- are right?
Ego, is it?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: numbers, all
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:18
EID:e181 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1c
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB> [Zero] was invented more recently than "number" was.
JB> We seem to have gotten along without it for a long time....
We got along without the square root of -1 for a long time, too.
Are you next going to claim that it is also "not a number?"
How about the square root of two? Not a number?
A googleplex? Not a number?
The smallest of Cantor's infinites, aleph-null? Not a number?
Just checking to see if you nonsense knows any bounds.
Somehow I doubt it, but there are times when you act reasonably.
* SLMR 2.1a *
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: CURTIS JOHNSON
|Sub: al debunks apple sauce
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:19
EID:2602 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1d
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Philosophy (of which science was an outgrowth) BEGAN with Socrates.
CJ> Take that, Heraclitus, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Thales,
CJ> Protagoras, Anaxagoras, Parmenides, Empedocles, and Anaximenes!
CJ> If it weren't for Al, we would have been fooled into thinking you
CJ> were philosophers!
LOL!
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:20
EID:9a42 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1e
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> I find it more comforting to have a God who doesn't CARE if you
AS> did good or bad...if you ask for forgiveness.
A teddy bear is real, and doesn't cost nearly as much.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 3603/210 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: ...
|Date: 13 Jan 97 05:40:21
EID:8f6c 222d2d00
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1ec58a1f
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Prayer isn't sorcery, Marilyn. It's a request.
One that you might as well make of Fred Rice's tablecloth, the
payer-answering equivalent to your god (or any other).
AS> Sometimes the answer is no.
Always it's just as if there is no god at all.
You might just as well pray to Fred Rice's tablecloth.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MIMI MILSTEIN
|Sub: ?
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:05:07
EID:f48e 222d70a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1f337521
TID: GE/2 1.2
MM>> What 'grabbed my chain' was your naked cruelty
RC> You must have lived a very sheltered life to consider Ron's
RC> remarks here in this forum examples, somehow, of "naked
RC> cruelty." Bizarrely punctuated, yes, but cruel? Seems to me
RC> that you are overreacting.
MM> Don't you worry your pretty little head with my sheltered life
MM> or my overreactions
It's a public forum, Babe. If you don't want to hear about it, then
don't flaunt your problems.
MM> If Ronald wanted to open Pandora's box
Or Mimi's mouth, mayhap?
MM> by dragging other people's private tragedies into speculative
MM> and maliciously gleeful scenarios he should also expect
MM> strong reactions - from the 'victim' and any other correspondent
MM> feeling that he went over board.
Mimi forbid he should express his opinions when they don't suit you!
MM> I demonstrated exactly what his crude behavior deserved,
MM> contempt.
How charmingly superior of you. (What a fucking crock of shit.)
RC> Heh. Back in the kitchen with you, Madame Pot.
MM> You read my mind :-) I was just going out there to pour
MM> myself a tall cool glass of something satisfying. While I
MM> am at it, I will fetch you a double Alkaseltzer.
Feel free to drop the medicine in your tall cool glass to quiet
whatever upset you experience from the so-called "naked cruelty"
of Ron daring to voice an opinion about matters raised here in
a public echo.
Maybe you should lie down for a while.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:05:08
EID:3dcd 222d70a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1f337522
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
LB> I like to know where I stand without ambiguity.
RC> Well, a little ambiguity seems inevitable from time to time
RC> in any situation. Or is it just me? :-)
ML> Well, yes and no...
Precisely.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:05:09
EID:7736 222d70a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1f337523
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> I'm the one who was "whine"ing about Stealth Baptists.
Afraid the baptismal water would wash off the facial dirt smudge?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: Matt Giwer
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:05:10
EID:9787 222d70a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1f337524
TID: GE/2 1.2
DW> Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer?
Does residing a few miles from him count?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub: text
|Date: 13 Jan 97 14:05:11
EID:a15b 222d70a0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 1f337525
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Simultaneously avoiding an 'English' sense of spelling, as I detest
RC> excessive use of the letter 'u'.
ML> You must unequivocally abhor ululating in a vacuum then.
Sounds futile.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:35:00
EID:3251 222c9460
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D98626
AS> RV> Any wish is a form of praying. Hasn't work on the 649 Loto, yet.
AS> If it does, I hope you will remember your poor...very poor...benighted
AS> Christian friends...
Going by the book of lies, a believer can never be poor with
the love of their god. Your trying to say, god's word is another
lie ?
If i should win, i do have a list of heathens, who could likely
use the help.
AS> of competition...I don't see anything wrong with God sometimes granting
AS> what you pray for, as long as you realize He has to take all the
AS> consequences into account...and not expect miracles. I don't expect
God to
AS> put aside all the laws of nature He has constructed for anything but
the
AS> greatest of reasons.
Does it for one, has to do it for all who ask, since he never answers
any wish alone those lines. He if a male, doesn't give a shit either
way.
AS> RV> And as to the other point, I do at times take it too serious. Agree.
AS> We all do occasionally, in a medium where we can't see expressions.
Don't
AS> worry about it.
I would be worst , face to face. Much easier to express my
thoughts without the poor interface of written words.
* SLMR 2.1a * If It Screams, it's not food . . . . . yet . . . . .
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al's God of Love
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:45:00
EID:7d2d 222c95a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D98627
AS> AS> Informal and direct. People at church, when they call me to lead
a
AS> AS> prayer, always like it because they get the feeling I'm TALKING
to
AS> AS> someone. I'm liable to go, "Lord, thank you for the beautiful sunset
AS> AS> yesterday...good job! Thank you for pretty girls, good fellowship,
and
AS> AS> joy in kids' faces. In Jesus' name, Amen." Or in a more thoughtful
vein
AS> AS> "Lord, someday, in a billion billion years, I hope you will allow
us to
AS> AS> a place where pain and trouble and evil are just an elusive memory,
a
AS> AS> painful beginning to a wonderful existence, as we now regard
AS> AS> childbirth...in Jesus' name we pray, Amen." That sort of thing.
AS> RV> "beautiful sunset" --- Atom warheads do that
AS> But didn't.
I see you have only read of selected books.
AS> RV> "pretty girls" --- head of the line for abuse
AS> Not necessarily. An abuser will abuse whoever is handy.
Bet they are at the head of the list.
AS> RV> "joy in kids faces" --- prior to rape
AS> Not every joyful kid is raped, Ron. Nor most of them.
One is too many.
AS> RV> "thoughtful" --- what joy of the one who rapes
AS> Or what joy of those who get beyond being raped.
Death does that, other wise you just cope with it.It never quits.
AS> RV> So how about it, Did Your God show his love of humans, By haveing
AS> RV> No Child Rape and abuse ........... T O D A Y ..............
AS> Is that your test? Then don't hold your breath. He's not going to override
AS> people's minds, even evil people. Because that is MINDrape.
And what does the abuser do, if not mindrape ?
AS> RV> Just Once Al. Just Once.........Is today the day ?
Yes Al. That is my god test, if the so called god is real.
AS> No; because you don't repay evil with evil. Or rape with rape.
AS> Mindrape...brainwashing...is the worst violation of all. Because your
body
AS> will change, and someday your body will be no more. But if there is
a YOU
AS> there, Ron, it is in your mind.
So Al say's ......save the abuser and fuck what happens to the child.
Cute Al, real cute. At times i wonder if you understand what your
saying.
* SLMR 2.1a * File not found. Remember, you just erased it.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 12 Jan 97 18:49:00
EID:0562 222c9620
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D98628
AS> RV> History of the past and present, Christians still Kill those
AS> RV> they feel are non-christians, if they can't get away with killing
AS> RV> them ....... then Christians try for hate or perhaps, to project
AS> RV> that non_christians are less then human.
AS> But I'm a Christian, Ron. Have I EVER implied a non-Christian is less
than
AS> human? Have I even said, to name a famous example, "atheists for the
most
AS> part do not do good works"? I don't think so...
You may think your a christian but i do wonder at times.
AS> RV> Al would N E V E R Spin_Doctor the facts by ignoreing the facts.
AS> May I quote you? One might say mentioning ONLY the negative aspects
of
As you wish.
* SLMR 2.1a * Al placed upside down on a cross,being curse by harppies
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:08:00
EID:f497 222c9900
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D98629
GTP>GTP>> Undoubtedly. Only David Rice would on it.
GTP>RV> No way. He would sign up, just to get your hormones all stired up.
GTP>RV> Now as if he would actually show up, well thats another kettle of
GTP>RV> fish.
GTP> You've met David Rice, I take it? Yes, that sounds like somethin
GTP>would do.
It's along the line, i would pull.
GTP>RV> If for nothing else but to titilate you with a titbit of rice.
GTP>You, sir, are an evil man. I like that in my friends.
As a fallen christian, it goes with out saying, to be classed
as evil. Now i just got to live up to it.
* SLMR 2.1a * Isaiah 45:7. God says that he created evil.-PS
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:20:00
EID:c098 222c9a80
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D9862A
>>KW>It's only the pie that you need to worry about, Ronald. The
>>KW>cookies, cakes, and candy are all safe, and indeed necessary to placat
>>KW>some of our local goddesses.
>RV>Sure Katherine, just the pie. How about i bring my own chocolate
>RV>tibbits to feed the goddess. The way the various HolySmoke Ladies?
>RV>have devise various ways of hidding their little tricks from the
>RV>males here. It would have to be tested on a Marty of the rockhound
>RV>fame, to test for the toxicology effects, first. Perhaps then, just
>RV>perhaps, it may be safe to consume.
KW>Offerings of chocolate are always welcome. And we don't hide our
KW>little tricks--we leave them right out in the open and count on male
KW>nature for the results that we want.
Going by the general male stupity when flesh is showen, i can go
along with that.
KW>A properly respectful male is in no danger. ;)
Perhaps but alas the flight of the female mind swings too fast for
any male to keep within that boundary all the time. It's the off
times, we're worry about.
* SLMR 2.1a * It's a Dogma eat Dogma world
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: test
|Date: 12 Jan 97 19:26:30
EID:e320 222c9b40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32D9862B
DC> -> On 07 Jan 97 18:02:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC>This a a test of OMX/BW & Terminate
DC> RV> It didn't work...... see: lieing like a Real True Christian
DC> I don't believe you...... See: Skeptic; also, Evidence to
DC> the contary. ;)
Dam! .. Evidence beats out belief again.
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Killing / War / Rape / Murder =>see Reglion<=
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Hitler Was A Christian *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Domino
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:22:32
EID:0b2d 222da2c0
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a0
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95e77
PID: timEd-B11
Gwenny, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
D> We had a student expelled because he used the word "fuck" in front of
a
D> teacher. His exact words were "fucking bathroom"; it wasn't even used
as an
D> insult to anyone.
GTP> Entirely too many people allow their buttons to be pushed by
GTP> words. "Fuck" is only a word. Just like "piss" which used
GTP> to be socially acceptable. All the teachers do is reinforce
GTP> the idea that it is okay to over react to something someone
GTP> says. It's not much of a leap to stabbing someone for a
GTP> word. SSSHEESH!
Everywhere I go, I notice people who overreact to words. I was on a local
chat board the other day, and some guy didnt like something I had said,
and called me a moron. Pointing out to him that I said it that way on
purpose, I called him a moron. He then told me that at the next GT (or
GTG or whatever you call them) he was going to beat me up.
It's teachers, parents, the media, etc. Society in general.
Kinda like a debate rules thing that's posted in Thump_It! from time
to time (donno if they post it in here or not).. One of the rules was
to psychoanalyze your opponents words. "Blah used the word 'zuccini in
his/her post, therefore s/he has a case of penis envy."
D> Of course, they were looking for a reason to expel him anyway;
D> he had already taken the Memphis police force and the tv police
D> drama show Top Cops on a high-speed chase in a stolen Mustang.
D> He was like 15 at the time. (And, actually, he comes from a
D> white upper-middle-class family, so noone can apply a
D> stereotype.)
GTP> Actually, there are applicable stereo-types. It's just
GTP> the kind that get swept under the carpet to protect the
GTP> family's rep.
Well, there's always stereotypes, just most people I've ever spoken
indepth to about the subject make comments that boiled down to:
Everyone who commits a crime comes from a broken home or bad environment.
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:29:30
EID:0b2d 222da3a0
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a1
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95efc
PID: timEd-B11
Gwenny, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
GTP> Bruce wears all black most of the time, but what are they
GTP> going to do about it. He's the first string heavy weight
GTP> wrestler, ranked fourth in the state last year. Last
GTP> year the fundy athletics tried to get him to join their
GTP> group. (They used food to entice him. . .a fancy breakfast
GTP> once a week.) After politely refusing their advances for a
GTP> month or so, he started wearing the biggest pentagram he
A couple students from a local Baptist church tried to get me to attend
services, until I went public about my Paganism. They dont bother me
anymore.
GTP> could find to school. They haven't bothered him since. One
GTP> teacher did give Suzanne (aka Starfire) some grief about her
GTP> pentacle, but he is gone (he was a stupid teacher--thought
GTP> Pompei was a volcano) to teach at a xtian school. And I've
GTP> made it clear that the next teacher who messes with her
GTP> because of it will face a lawsuit.
None of the teachers here say anything to me about any of my appearance
or behaviour. I kinda have a reputation for being a wierdo at my school.
FR>> Bizarre behavior, really... tossing someone out of school due
FR>> to the color of her lipstick. As if the public education
FR>> system wasn't already a mess.
D> Imagine what would have happened if it wasnt lipstick -- if she had a
D> birthmark or whatever on her lips alone, making them look black? Think
D> they'd kick her out then?
GTP> They'd put her in a handicapped program or something.
Which would just as stupid as kicking her out, if not more stupid.
GTP> ... Is there life after deja you?
That's bad. ;)
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:35:35
EID:8748 222da460
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a2
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95f6c
PID: timEd-B11
Gwenny, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
GtP>> Welcome, Domino. Good to have you here. Most of the
GtP>> atheists are pretty cool, with a few exception like David
GtP>> Worrell. He's decided that us "goofy" pagans a "nice,
GtP>> pathetic" targets because we fight back.
D> Hm. David hasnt presented that image as of yet in Thump_It! (Memphis
local
D> religdebate).. I'll have to watch him.
GTP> Ah, he's just trolling. Don't take anything I say about
GTP> Tennessee to heart.
Hey, I wasnt born here, and I dont claim it.
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:36:24
EID:c3b8 222da480
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a3
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95f72
PID: timEd-B11
Gwenny, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
CP>> How is that possable? Either you belive in God or you don't!
DW>> Ah! You meant "... are you an atheist or a theist?"
DW>> The answer is still neither, though.
D> Could the answer be.. Agnostic?
GTP> TROLL.
What's this? David's a troll? ;)
GTP> Honestly, you'll find that many of us won't commit to a
GTP> belief system. It keeps it more simple. If no one knows
GTP> what you believe, no one can tease you about it.
Must make it really easy to win debates.
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Thanks
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:37:12
EID:90b8 222da4a0
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a4
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95f79
PID: timEd-B11
Gwenny, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
GtP>> Now David. About this obsession with
GtP>> Twinkies. Could this be in some way associated with deep
GtP>> feelings of inadequacy about your genitals. When you suck
GtP>> out the creamy insides, is it more fulfilling than say, oh,
GtP>> sex with a female?
D> Snort.. Snicker.. As far as I've seen, he has yet to comment in Thump_it!
D> about when I let good 'ol Trent (resident fundy) in on my little secret:
D> I'm bi and it wasn't a choice.. Trent has this affinity for ignoring
first
D> hand facts.. (He's claimed a multitude of times that bi/homosexuality
is a
D> choice.. Odd.. Wasn't a choice for me..)
GTP> Oh, I don't think he's bi. I'm just flaming him, accusing
GTP> him of not getting any sex.
I was keeping along with the joke.
(and making use of a convenient moment to make my stance clear to whoever
reads me)
GTP> "Bother!" said Pooh as his batteries died just moments before
GTP> climax.
Stolen! Stolen stolen stolen!
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Domino
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christ-Like / Contradictions / Species behavior
|Date: 13 Jan 97 20:43:00
EID:f405 222da560
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a6
PID: timEd-B11
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe4
Fredric, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
dom> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity
dom> that's allowing anything, that we're allowing everything?
FR> A species -- every species, not just humans -- allow ethics
FR> and modes of behavior which are expedient at the time.
FR> Morality _is_ that which a society can afford at the time.
FR> We -- all of us -- allow humans to starve to death because
FR> we don't, by and large, care. We are genetically ingrained
FR> with the desire to assist those of us who share the same
FR> phenotypes as us yet that same genetic predisposition
FR> predisposes us to ignore the needs of those which don't.
Why didnt you just say, "I agree" ?
dom> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
FR> And contradicts that claim repeatedly.
References, please. Don't give me threats of damnation. A threat does
not nullify free will. You can still choose to go against the threat
and suffer the consequences.
FR> The scientific fact, however, is that all species have "free
FR> will" but that their behavior is tailored by their genes and
FR> environment -- not to mention the political and socio-economic
FR> constraints of their day.
And even then, if the individual is aware enough of his environment, he
can choose to go against that tailoring.
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 14 Jan 97 00:34:01
EID:073a 222e0440
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dad4a1
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2da56fa0
PID: GED3 2.5
13 Jan 97 10:37, Domino wrote to David Worrell:
D>> Actually, it never says you *can't*. It says what will happen if
D>> you *do*. You still have free will.
DW>> Ever hear of the word "extortion?"
D> Threats are still not definites. Yeah, the warnings of damnation and
D> such could be called threats; but you dont *have* to go with a threat.
D> You still have free will.
I walk up to you in an alley, pull a gun, and say "your money or your life."
You would have no problem with this?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Rice only believes that Wolff is a fundy liar
|Date: 14 Jan 97 00:37:16
EID:b900 222e04a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dad57d
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 fa0098e9
PID: GED3 2.5
11 Jan 97 10:17, Bill Wolff wrote to David Rice:
BW> I believe the latest findings show that this tree is now incorrect.
BW> Thus we must go back to the drawing board and rewrite evolution but
BW> once again.
Which findings, Billy?
BW> I hope you have Internet WEB access. As I would like for you to
BW> check out www.artbell.com WEB site. He has three pictures of skulls
God, you're a moron.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 14 Jan 97 00:54:25
EID:00ad 222e06c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dad96b
REPLY: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32d95e77
PID: GED3 2.5
11 Jan 97 06:24, Gwenny The Pooh wrote to Domino:
D>> We had a student expelled because he used the word "fuck" in front
D>> of a teacher. His exact words were "fucking bathroom"; it wasn't
D>> even used as an insult to anyone.
GP> Entirely too many people allow their buttons to be pushed by words.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 14 Jan 97 01:21:36
EID:a363 222e0aa0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dae00f
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 060c7fe3
PID: GED3 2.5
12 Jan 97 12:35, Fredric Rice wrote to Marilyn Burge:
DW>> Bullshit again. I simply pointed out that your daughter was
DW>> overweight. Your reaction, your husband's reaction, and
DW>> Marilyn's reaction showed just how truly *uncomfortable* with
DW>> your respective weights all of you are.
mb>> Gwen, this is an out-and-out lie, and the lying sack of shit knows
mb>> it. I TOLD HIM the reason I spoke up: it was because he was
mb>> ragging on the two of you about something you could do nothing
mb>> about.
FR> Do you honestly believe that people have no control over their own
FR> weight?! Or that parents have no control over an offspring's weight?
It does seem that way, doesn't it? I must say that Marilyn's responses have
surprised me.
FR> I don't want to jump into this idiotic, fuckingly stupid argument;
Fuck you very much, too. :)
FR> I
FR> just read your comment above and had to wonder if you actually
FR> believe
FR> this else typed something in badly.
You did see the "evil" quote, didn't you?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 14 Jan 97 01:24:17
EID:a84a 222e0b00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dae077
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1a8c6d60
PID: GED3 2.5
12 Jan 97 12:36, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Brian Shreve:
BS> KW>> J.J. Hitt
BS>> He "married" a former best friend of mine. JJ's got class, but I'd
BS>> bet no one here who hasn't met him could pick em out of a group of
BS>> 3, or 5 or 10 people. JJ's got a drive mankind doesn't see too
BS>> often. I hold alot of respect and admiration for this guy. A
BS>> friendship is not in the horizon, but I like what he is about, and
BS>> his compassion for learning.
KW>