God Damned Fundies!

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  Mars
|Date: 15 Jan 97  13:09:28
EID:2eaa 222f6920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32dd86dc
AS>  Hey, I haven't been married for sixteen years without learning SOME
AS>  survival skills.

GtP> Do you tutor??  Wild could use some lessons.  The question he REALLY
GtP> needs to learn to answer is "Do I look alright?"  He always just says,
GtP> "Yeah." 

The answer to that depends. The correct answer of course, is "Even
prettier than usual" (not "more beautiful". Gets them suspicious.) but if
she REALLY wants a frank appraisal of what she's wearing, it's wise to
give her one...clothes can be changed. But proceed with caution.

GtP> No problem.  And it looks like that is over.  (And remember the
GtP> next time an atheist teases a christian about arguing with a tagline
GtP> that the whole Indian battle got started over JJ arguing with a sig
GtP> line. ) 

Yeah. It's interesting that some posters are saying something about
another group which...if, say, Jim Staal said it...he would be a
"brain-dead bigot".

GtP> BTW, I have declared the Todds the winner, since we managed to get
up
GtP> the dander of several atheists. . .after the flame war was well under
GtP> way.  We only argued facts until we realized it was a flame.


I always SAID you were a wise woman. I often get in arguments that are
both facts AND flame.



... I am NOT a cynic - I just remember last time too well!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 15 Jan 97  13:19:50
EID:e1b2 222f6a60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32dd86dd
AS> There are a lot of women and men at my church whose spouses aren't
AS> believers.   I've never heard any of them say that they believe they
AS> won't remember their spouse in Heaven.

RH> Her answer was not church dogma, just her own explanation.

Right. An interesting one. I've heard it asserted that GOD doesn't
remember past sins when asked for forgiveness, which I think is taken from
a too-literal reading of a few scriptures. But I've never heard that.

RH> And the C of C is not noted for deep thinking or questioning
RH> of belief.

RH> IMHO, of course, but I have a LOT of experience here.

Well, I've had more, and in all honesty...
I agree with you.



... Necromancers do it loud enough to wake the dead.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   ROBERT CURRY
|Sub:  More grist from the web
|Date: 15 Jan 97  13:28:28
EID:d1cf 222f6b80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32dd86de
DC> It is when the alternative is an eternity of pain and suffering.

AS> Or an eternity of bliss and happiness.

RC> The New, Improved version of your religion's notion of Hell?
RC> Delightful. Sign me up, please.

Be more than happy to. Go to the nearest church, and tell the preacher
there you are interested in getting to "Heaven".  That's our brand name.
He'll take care of the details.
And thank you for shopping at JesusMart.



... I've had a bad day,I feel like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  Quote
|Date: 15 Jan 97  13:53:05
EID:4d85 222f6ea0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32dd86df
JB> It's always interesting to watch the anti-fundies attacking each
JB> other. Indicates perhaps they're attacking the fundies for no better
JB> reason  than entertainment.  Seems when there're no fundies around to
JB> attack,  the wolves turn on each _other_.  Figures....

Noticed that too, did you?



... I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  SUPERSTION
|Date: 15 Jan 97  13:57:25
EID:92f9 222f6f20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32dd86e0
RH> Still, it was late and the spear pretty well settled things, even
RH> if he wasn't -quite- dead....

AS> Well...yeah, I DO think the spear settled things. He may not have
AS> been dead until then. He was definitely dead afterwards.

RH> Sure. Our disagreement is over how -SOON- after. I'm holding out for
RH> hours, at least.

And maybe days and weeks....pretty sloppy of the centurions who took him
down, considering that both Pilate and the Sanhedrin had a stake in
it...you would think they would make EXTRA sure that He was dead.
Personally...I think they did.



... History repeats itself when nobody listens.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  One of yours?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:28:34
EID:24a4 22300b80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8536
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32dbc6a6
PID: GED3 2.5
14 Jan 97 12:38, Don Martin wrote to Dan Ceppa:

DM>     People such as Bill and Melinda Gates, Paul Allen,
DM>     Steven Spielberg, Kate Capshaw, Harry Anderson, Richard
DM>     Starky, Rod Stewart, Rachel Hunter, Tom Petty, George
DM>     Lucas, Jack Nicholson, Natalie Merchant, Amy Grant, Troy
DM>     Aikman, Sheryl Crow, Ivanna Trump, Patrick Swayze and
DM>     wife, Bob Dylan, Eddie Money, Woody Harrelson, some
DM>     members of the rock groups the Rolling Stones, Led
DM>     Zepplin, B.T.O. and Pink Floyd to name very few of the
DM>     people who have watched me in the privacy of my own
DM>     dwelling place off and on for several years have added
DM>     to this harrassment and hate crime.

DM>     Despite my pleas to ask them to leave me alone, these
DM>     people keep finding new people to watch me. Sometimes,
DM>     some of these and other people gratify themselves or
DM>     each other sexually while invading my privacy in all

Hell, I'd *like* to see Kate Capshaw, Rachael Hunter, Natalie Merchant,
and Sheryl Crow gratify themselves sexually, either one at a time or all
together. :)

I can understand, though, that watching Bob Dylan would be traumatic.


DM>     If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.

They're hoping to see Rachael Hunter, of course. I've got no idea what she's
doing there.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:40:26
EID:d08a 22300d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8727
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 e8fa4ec3
PID: GED3 2.5
14 Jan 97 22:02, Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer:

EM>          Trade you this appliance for it:
EM>     -+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-
EM> section 1 of uuencode 5.20 of file carrier.gif    by R.E.M.

rofl

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  [2/2] lon mabon ebon
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:52:15
EID:6532 22300e80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8b28
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0ee450
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 03:30, Curtis Johnson wrote to David Worrell:

DW>> Send strong complaints to "postmaster@".
DW>> I've never been bothered twice by the same people.

CJ>         I'd been sending a "Keep your spam in your kitchen" to the
CJ>  sender.

I send those too. If I'm especially ticked off, I've got a UUENCODED 600k
file that I send 'em, along with a promise to send more if they send me
any more spam. I changed a few of the characters, so the file is completely
worthless. If they have a direct internet connection, it doesn't really
bother them that much; if, however, they use dial-up, it gets damn annoying
for the sorry-assed little bastards.

CJ>         There seems to be a welcome trend among some ISPs having
CJ>  their commercial accounts carry a boiler-plate to the effect of
CJ>  "If you don't want to receive unsolicted ads from this site, send
CJ>  a null message back with "Cancel" in the subject line to this
CJ>  address."  Not as good as not having the unsolicted ads in the
CJ>  first place--even if every ISP did this, how many ISPs are
CJ>  there?--but a step in the right direction.

Indeed. It shouldn't be the responsibility of the recipient, though, to
prevent junk email.

DW>> Are you familiar with PGP, the encryption program? The author has
DW>> incorporated now, and PGP Inc will soon be releasing
DW>> pgpcookie.cutter. If the press release can be believed, it will
DW>> selectively block "cookies."

CJ>         I have a copy of PGP, haven't gotten around to playing with
CJ>  it yet.
CJ>         May what's-his-name make a mint off it--and he just might
CJ>  for this needed product.  BTW, thanks for posting the URL elsewhere.

No problem. You don't need PGP to use the cookie cutter (but then I'm sure
you know that if you checked the URL).

DW>> In the meantime, "cookies" are just files on your hard drive. If
DW>> you don't want the guys at MSNBC to know you've been visiting gay
DW>> porn sites, just delete all the "cookies" manually before
DW>> visiting MSNBC's site.

CJ>         Wouldn't that require exiting out of your browser (and
CJ>  maybe your net connection) first?  What a pain.

Exiting your browser, yes. Not your net connection, though.

Netscape 3 has a check box somewhere in all those option menus to warn you
before a cookie is placed on your system, and allow you to refuse it. If
you turn this option on, you'll be amazed at how many cookies are floating
around out there.

CJ>>> Speaking of which:  there doesn't seem to be any FIDO
CJ>>> messages that have arrived in the past 24 hours or so.  Having

DW>> The same thing happened here.

CJ>         Lucky for you, your board's FIDO connection stayed back up.

And unlucky for the Todds.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:58:04
EID:73ea 22300f40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8bc1
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd5c1d
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 22:37, Dan Ceppa wrote to David Worrell:

DC> BTW, there was someone "marketing" a compression file that
DC> claimed 98% or so compression.  IIRC, it turned your file
DC> into a zero-length or short one-line file.  I'm wondering
DC> how many people attempted to use it before checking it out...

Lossless fractal compression? Yeah, it's bullshit. Fractal compression can
get some damn impressive compression ratios, but it is far from lossless.
It's fine for graphic images, but completely useless for executables, data
files, and that kind of thing.

The program you are referring to copied the file being "compressed" to a
hidden file, then created a short file with a few nonsense characters as
the new, compressed file. When you ran the decompression, it simply copied
the hidden file back to the original file name.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Indians
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:02:29
EID:af6b 22301040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8cac
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd6fcf
PID: GED3 2.5
16 Jan 97 00:01, Dan Ceppa wrote to David Worrell:

DC> As a member of a minority group myself, and not the "correct
DC> minority", I have not a single qualm about making fun of the
DC> "PC Minorities".

I have no qualms about "making fun" of anyone, if I feel the circumstances
warrant it. I wouldn't really call what I do "making fun," though. "Trolling"
isn't even exactly right, but is close enough for jack-booted thug work.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Paul Davis
|Sub:  2 CORINTHIANS 9:13
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:04:51
EID:dbc8 22301080
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8d08
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32da183d
PID: GED3 2.5
13 Jan 97 05:10, Paul Davis wrote to David Worrell:

GP>>> Now, I know I am empathic, but I've never seen that as a
GP>>> 'mystical' thing.  The more I look at it, the more I am inclined
GP>>> to believe it is merely hypersensitivity to body language and
GP>>> smell.  I think I "smell" a person getting angry or sad, not
GP>>> that I mystically "sense" it.

DW>> Have you any more evidence to support your belief than do those
DW>> who claim it is some "mystical" thing? If not, you're just as
DW>> full of shit as they are.

PD> There is a whole body of evidence to support the claim that the
PD> body/mind picks up a lot more information than we consciously
PD> acknowledge.

Of course there is. I'm asking her for evidence to support her beliefs,
though.

PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?

You'll just have to guess.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Christ-Like
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:07:36
EID:073a 223010e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd8d8e
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dd027f4
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 11:38, Domino wrote to David Worrell:

DW>>> I walk up to you in an alley, pull a gun, and say "your
DW>>> money or your life." You would have no problem with this?
D>> I'd probably have a major problem with that,
DW>> Why? I haven't taken your "free will" away, after all.

D> No, you havent. But I dont know a single person who wouldn't have a
D> problem with having a loaded gun pulled on them.

Why? Me employing a loaded gun does nothing to take away your free will,
right? What's the problem?

---
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 15 Jan 97  18:27:00
EID:a2f1 222f9360
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a0a60d91
DC>-> On 07 Jan 97  11:41:03, Tiger Eyes got back to J.J.Hitt

DC> TE> Listen to the voices of the Indian
DC> TE> nations 

DC>Yep, around here, they are all bickering over who gets to 
DC>sell off all the clams, net the salmon rivers and build the 
DC>biggest gambling casinos.  

With the group here it's yet more casinos, and fighting over the war
drum.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Some people are, thru no fault of their own, sane.


--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Holysmoke convention
|Date: 15 Jan 97  18:27:00
EID:ace2 222f9360
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 257a6082
FR>KW> Or team up with others of us who cant stand to sleep in nightclothes!
FR>DM>    Ah, that would be me.
FR>DM>    (Lucky me!)

FR>kw> Well, that'll make three (four?  I assume that Glen will
FR>kw> be there, too) in the clothing optional room. 

FR>We're going to find out just how many naked pagans can fit in a Las Vegas
FR>hotel room.  Cool.

We'll admit naked atheists, too. ;)

---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold on to.


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Starfire
|Sub:  Holysmoke convention
|Date: 15 Jan 97  18:27:00
EID:02e3 222f9360
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2569f4d4
S>DM> KW>> Or team up with others of us who cant stand to sleep in
S>DM> KW>> nightclothes!

S>DM>> Ah, that would be me.

S>DM>> (Lucky me!)

S>KW> Well, that'll make three (four?  I assume that Glen will be there,
too)
S>KW> in the clothing optional room. 

S>Or five if the Gwenny {my mama} decides to take me along as a body guard.{G}

We'll put you on door guard--can't have the xtians crashing the party,
you know.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Sort of the Furthest, the Sum, and the Holy Yogurt?-RS

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  spam me big boy!
|Date: 15 Jan 97  18:27:00
EID:edeb 222f9360
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3800e948
CJ> KW> That is what is unforgivable, in their eyes.  You notice that Ken
seems
CJ> KW> to have taken out of here with his weeny tail between his legs.

CJ> KW>   What ever did happen to that bear?  Or did the Bear run
off
CJ> KW> with Ken?

CJ>        He's still ranting in R-RELIGION (and I'm still unable to
CJ> post there).  Among his latest hobby-horses are about AIDS being
CJ> God's punishment on homosexuals (yawn; he's getting predictably
CJ> torn apart there, albeit in a more polite fashion than here) and
CJ> his contention that such movies as _Silence of the Lambs_, the
CJ> Star Wars and Star Trek series, and _Jesus Christ Superstar_ are
CJ> attacks on Christianity.

  Would you mind telling me just how he justifies that one?
Unless, of course, he's drawing imaginary parallels between Hannibal the
Cannibal and xtiany.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Streakers repent!! Your end is in sight!


--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   John Musselwhite
|Sub:  Water and Flood (b).
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:48:54
EID:f35e 22303600
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0d86f
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 31-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood (b).")

JM>  On 25 Dec 96, Laurie Appleton penned the following to David Rice

LA> the Alpine glaciers are less than 4000 years old. Professor


JM>  Which "Alpine"? The Alps themselves? What about the Rockies or
JM>   are they merely "alpine"? What has been learned about
JM>   glaciology in the last 50 years, Laurie... any idea?

Clearly you need MORE of what Velikovsky said, before you
can get it into perspective. Here then is the previous page
and perhaps that will help!


"The recent expedition of the Oceanographic Institute
at Goteborg, under H. Pettersson, which covered the
Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian oceans, found, according to
its leader, evidences of great catastrophes that have altered
the face of the earth."

"He speaks of "climatic catastrophes," and of
"tectonic catastrophes [that] raised or lowered the ocean
bottom hundreds and even thousands of feet, spreading huge
tidal waves which destroyed plant and animal life on the
coastal plains." At many places "a lava bed of geologically
recent origin [was] covered only by a thin veneer of
sediment."

"He discovered that the Pacific and Indian ocean beds
consist "largely of volcanic ash that had settled on the
bottom after great volcanic explosions." He also found a
large nickel content in the clay of the ocean bottoms, and
decided that this abysmal nickel must have been of meteoric
origin. Consequently, he concludes, there were "very heavy
showers of meteors," "The principal difficulty of this
explanation is that it requires a rate of accretion of
meteoric dust several hundred times greater than that which
astronomers .... are presently prepared to admit."(6)

"Professor Ewing of Columbia University carried on his
investigation in the Atlantic. In 1949 he published his
results, and, like Pettersson, he found that lava spread only
recently on the bottom of the ocean. He also came upon signs
of land deep on the bottom of the ocean and concluded:
"Either the land must have sunk two to three miles, or the
sea once must have been two or three miles lower than now.
Either conclusion is startling."

"The pollen analysis, made by various scientists, of the
bottom of the North Sea, between Germany, England, Scotland,
and Norway, convinced researchers that this sea in its
present shape originated only very recently - in the
Subboreal, the date of 1500 before the present era often
being selected. At that time there occurred a Klimasturz.
Once there had been a sea; then it was covered by debris
carried from the mountains of Norway; later, in a
catastrophic advance, the North Sea was formed once more.
Human artifacts have been found from the time when the North
Sea was land."

"The investigation of the delta formation of the Bear
River (on the Alaskan border), very carefully made by Hanson,
showed that "at the present rate of sedimentation the delta
is estimated to be only 3600 years old," A. de Lapparent, the
leading French geologist of the beginning of the century,
calculated that, since the time the Rhone glacier started to
melt, less than 3000 years have passed."

---------------------------------
6 H. Pettersson, "Exploring the Ocean Floor," Scientific
American, August 1950.
---------------------------------
(Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, p. 248)

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   John Musselwhite
|Sub:  Water and Flood (b)1.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:49:40
EID:d4fa 22303620
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0d8d1
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 31-Dec-1996, "Water and Flood (b).")

JM>  On 25 Dec 96, Laurie Appleton penned the following to David Rice

LA> Flint of Yale refers to the redetermination of the age of the
LA> Upper Great Gorge of Niagara Falls and writes (1947): "The age
LA> of the Upper Great Gorge is calculated as somewhat more than
LA> four thousand years - and to obtain even this [low] figure we
LA> have to assume that the rate of recession has been constant,
LA> although we know that discharge has in fact varied greatly
LA> during post-glacial times."(7)

JM>     The age of the Falls has been determined through more
JM> accurate means than they had in 1947 and placed at about 10
JM> thousand years, not four thousand as Velikovsky indicates.

Then do tell me what that method was John, or don't you
know. It is interesting to learn that Charles Lyell's
original 35,000 years is now debunked!

JM>     I might add that this is yet another place which I have
JM> been fortunate enough to visit and learn about rather than
JM> depending on tracts or sensational literature for my
JM> knowledge.

So just WHAT did you see there John that satisfied you
beyond reasonable doubt that their "age" was 10,000 years
rather than 4,000 years?

LA>     These researches, unknown to me when I
LA> wrote Worlds in Collision, coincide completely with my
LA> conclusions and their dating."

JM>   Too bad he was wrong, Laurie... again.

Are you over looking the fact that evolutionists are
nearly ALWAYS wrong about just about everything anyway and
after all Velikovsky was a confirmed evolutionist himself,
even if he was well ahead of many other evolutionists in
exposing the absurdities of the Neo-Darwinian Synthesis!

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  A Man and a Cat.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:50:44
EID:3c10 22303640
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0d95a
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 03-Jan-1997, "A Man and a Cat.")

LA> So long as you wish to send me your abusive messages, I
LA> guess I will just do my best to send back some information

DC>  No information that you send has any value.  In the first
DC> place, it comes from you.  More importantly, it comes from
DC> your not only tainted but putrid sources.

Judging by your persistence in leaving me messages I
conclude that you are not telling the truth. You seem to
simply "love" getting some of the information that your
betters chose not to give you. So here we go again;

"Scientific theory is a matter of the highest degree
of probability based on the data available. There are no
absolutes in it. Further- more, science is a train that is
constantly moving. Yesterday's generalization is today's
discarded hypothesis."

"This is one reason for being somewhat tentative about
accepting any form of evolutionary theory as the final
explanation of biology. It is also why it is dangerous to
try to prove the Bible by science. If the Bible becomes
wedded to today's scientific theories, what will happen to
it when science, ten years from now, has shifted?"

"Theologian W.A. Criswell cites: "In 1861 . . . the
French Academy of Science published a little brochure in
which they stated fifty-one scientific facts that
controverted the Word of God. Today there is not a scientist
in the world who believes a single one of those fifty one
so-called scientific facts that in 1861 were published as
controverting the Word of God. Not a one!" (10)

"Thoughtful evolutionists concede that the matter is
not an open-and-shut-case, but they feel the theory must be
accepted despite some seeming contradictions and unexplained
factors."

"The following is of such interest that I quote it at
length to illustrate this point. After discussing how
pathetically theology students as Cambridge, in a former
century, accepted dogma and teachings they did not fully
understand or personally investigate, G.A. Kerkut, an
evolutionist, points out that many present-day
undergraduates have succumbed to the same unthinking
tendencies in their studies in general, and in accepting
evolution in biology in particular. He writes:"

"For some years now I have tutored undergraduates on various
aspects of biology. It is quite Common, during the course of
conversation, to ask the student if he knows the evidence for
evolution. This usually evokes a faintly superior smile.
. ."

"Well, sir, there is the evidence from paleontology,
comparative anatomy, embryology, systematics and
geographical distribution."

(Quoted from, "Know Why You Believe", Paul Little, 1988,
p.123)

Did you like that? Wanna see the next page?

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Flat-Earthers.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:51:20
EID:359e 22303660
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0d9aa
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 03-Jan-1997, "Flat-earthers.")

LA> Perhaps you have a similar problem to that admitted by
LA> Aldous Huxley? See what you think eh?

DC>  I think you have a problem with meglomania and a very
DC> strong tendancy to a marty complex.  Seek help.

Obviously you are DESPERATE to receive messages no matter
what, otherwise why do you write to a person such as you try
to describe me. So anyway here is part 2 of your story;



"Do you think that the evolutionary theory is the best
explanation yet advanced to explain animal interrelationships?" I
would ask.

"Why, of course, sir," would be the reply. "There is nothing
else. except for the religious explanation held by some
fundamentalist Christians, and I gather, sir, that these views are
no longer held by the more up-to-date churchmen."

"So you believe in evolution because there is no other theory?

"Oh, no, sir, I believe in it Because of the evidence I just
mentioned."

"Have You read any book on the evidence for evolution?" I would
ask.

"Yes, sir." And here he would mention the names of authors
of a popular school textbook. "And of course sir, there is that
book of Darwin, The Origin of Species."

"Have you read this book?" I would ask.

"Well, not all through, sir."

"The first fifty pages?"

"Yes, sir. about that much; maybe a bit less."

"I see. And that has given you your firm understanding of
evolution?"

"Yes, sir,"

"Well, now, if you really understand an argument you will be able
to indicate to me not only the points in favor of the argument, but
also the most telling points against it."

"I suppose so, sir."

"Good. Please tell me, then, some of the evidence against theory
of evolution."

"But there isn't any, sir."

Here the conversation would take on a more strained atmosphere.
The student would look at me as if I were playing a very unfair game
(Know Why You Believe, Paul Little, 1988, p. 124)

So how about that? What about the next episode?

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Velikovsky.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:51:50
EID:043a 22303660
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0d9e5
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 03-Jan-1997, "Velikovsky.")

LA> Funny thing is that I did not notice any attempt at
LA> humour by Velikovsky in any of his books. Perhaps you have

DC>    Virtually each and every hypothesis he makes is
DC> laughable.  That you believe him, makes you an idiot.

Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Why
would the following have taken place if there an atom of
rationality in your statement?

"In February 1974, at a symposium of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), in a
trying seven-hour debate, Velikovsky faced a critical panel
determined to prove him wrong. He delivered a vigorous,
cogent defence of his position. When he concluded, a large
audience of AAAS members and guests gave him a prolonged
standing ovation.

(When the Sky Rained Fire, Reader's Digest, February, 1976,
p.169)

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:52:40
EID:5afc 22303680
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0da52
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 03-Jan-1997, "Fakes, Frauds and Scams.")

LA> Perhaps you need to know the story of the Channeled
LA> Scablands as told by dear old S.J. Gould. Here is some bits

DC>   Perhaps you should try reading the book and
DC> understanding it before you attempt to quote from what you
DC> don't know.  It would, of course, be a first on your part to
DC> do so.

My my my! Your indoctrination has been very thorough
hasn't it? So here is something else for you. A leading
evolutionist wrote that;


"One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary
view, or let's call it a non-evolutionary view, was last year I
had a sudden realization for over twenty years I had thought I
was working on evolution in  some way."

"One morning I woke up and something had happened in the
night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff
for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it.
That's quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so
long."

"Either there was something wrong with me or there was
something wrong with evolutionary theory. Naturally, I know
there is nothing wrong with me, so for the last few weeks I've
tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of
people.

"Question is: Can you tell me anything you know about
evolution, any one thing, any one thing that is true?"

"I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field
Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was
silence."

"I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology
Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body
of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long
time and eventually one person said, "I do know one thing ---
it ought not to be taught in high school"."

(Dr Colin Patterson (Senior Palaeontologist, British Museum of
Natural History, London). Keynote address at the American
Museum of Natural History, New York City, 5 November 1981.)

So what answer would you have given to that evolutionist,
when no one else could do so?

Laurie

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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Darrow Nonsense (b).
|Date: 16 Jan 97  06:53:18
EID:8240 223036a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88c0daa6
Hi Dan,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Darrow Nonsense (b).")

LA> What a shame for Darrow that NO TEST ever made for
LA> evolution has ever confirmed it! It has FAILED every test

DC>  Get back to me when your thinking passes the 17th century
DC> mark.

Hell, that would be much too advanced for you! However I
will keep trying to help you and deprogram you from the
delusions from which you appear to be suffering. Here wadda
yer think of this from a red hot evolutionist?


"There was little doubt that the star intellectual
turn of last week's British Association for the Advancement
of Science meeting in Salford was Dr John Durant, a
youthful lecturer from University College Swansea. Giving
the Darwin lecture to one of the biggest audiences of the
week, Durant put forward an audacious theory --- that
Darwin's evolutionary explanation of the orgins of man
has been transformed into a modern myth, to the detriment
of science and social progess."......

Durant concludes that the secular myths of evolution
have had "a damaging effect on scientific research",
leading to "distortion, to needless controversy, and
to the gross misuse of science"."

(Dr John Durant (University College Swansea, Wales), as
quoted in "How evolution became a scientific myth",New
Scientist, 11 September 1980, p.765.)

Now wasn't that a stomach full that those evolutionists
would have found hard to digest?

Laurie

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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To:   Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub:  What???
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:41:15
EID:d269 222f8d20
MSGID: 1:352/666 32DD7C12
MM> go blank... what's the sdsmcom stand for???

GP> Something like "scaring the dogs and spilling my coffee. . .I don't

GP> remember for sure.

Ah, must be "scaring the dog, spilling my coffee on myself"  OK, that would
work.  Take care.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 ** Le Maison De Metal * 360-493-0798 * Olympia, WA. **
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub:  More Toddlings, News at 1
|Date: 14 Jan 97  14:42:00
EID:b5d8 222e7540
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to All <=-

GTP> Hey, folks.   My daughters now have points and
GTP> will be joining us in the fray. Let's have a
GTP> hearty welcome for Stephanie (aka TigerEyes)
GTP> and Suzanne (aka Starfire). 

Once again proving the Fundamentalists wrong when they
assert this isn't a family echo!

GTP> (Now we outnumber the Rices, even with the new
GTP> brother. Neenerneener)

"Be afraid. Be very afraid." -- Marty

... Ever notice that there's no "Institute for Evolution Research"?
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   AL SCHROEDER
|Sub:  More grist from the web
|Date: 15 Jan 97  08:59:00
EID:1d51 222f4760
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to David Rice <=-

>>>AS> An excellent point! But then, if one chooses not to
>>>AS> live a morally upright life, and not to ask for
>>>AS> God[sic]'s forgiveness, what would you do with
>>>AS> them?

>DR> There's so many flaws in the above assertion one
>DR> is hard-pressed to know which to tackle first.

AS> I'm sure you will think of something.

>DR> 1) How can one ask the gods for forgiveness? Does
>DR> not all evidence point to their nonsexistance,
>DR> irrelevance, and appathy in human affairs?

AS> The constants. People dying for saying they saw Jesus 
AS> on the cross, saw Him[sic] die, and rise again...for
AS> us.

You mean just like Elvis, Horus, Krishna, etc. Just how
often do you ask the other sacrificed gods for "forgiveness?"
There's at least 15 sons of god who were crucified BEFORE
your favorate son of god.

>DR> 2) Who in the goddamn hell granted these gods of
>DR> Al's the right to grant forgiveness? Is not that
>DR> the right of those whom one harms, and NOT the
>DR> rights of the gods?

AS> Define "right".

"Conforming with or conformable to justice, law, or 
morality."

AS> Then justify your definition. And then try to figure 
AS> that out without an absolute frame of reference.

A "absolute frame of reference" is unnecessary, which is
a good thing since there is no such thing. If you have
any such thing, please present it.

AS> Many have tried to build an ethos without a God[sic]. 
AS> It all comes down to "because it's RIGHT, dammit!"

And for some reason Fundamentalist theists (of all cults) 
fail to understand the fact that "right and wrong" is both 
wired in (nature) and socialized (nurture). By all 
accounts; by all observed instances, no gods are required. 
Indeed, this is demonstrated by the fact that devout 
believers in "absolute frames of reference" (i.e. a god or 
gods) have demonstrated, with much butchery, mayhem, 
blood, rape, plunder, and pillage, that such a belief tends
to eradicate their innate sense of what is right and wrong.
It has ALWAYS been those who believed in an "absolute frame
of reference" who have commited the worst evils in the world, 
"simply" because they ignored their innate sense of right
and instead embraced an external, i.e. false, one, i.e. 
gods. What tyrant has NOT been utterly convinced of their
right to enact their tyrany?

AS> They are justifying after the fact. But the 
AS> justification for what is right and what is wrong is 
AS> elusive... unless there is someone who decides what is 
AS> right and what is wrong, the same way the maker of the 
AS> game of Monopoly decided what moves are "legal" and
AS> which are cheating.

Er, Al, that's exactly what I said and exactly what you 
objected to. There =ARE= "someone who decides what is 
right and what is wrong." It's called genetics (nature)
and socialization (nurture).

AS> Philosophers litter the bookshelves trying to do a 
AS> nontheistic basis for good and bad... right and wrong.
AS> But they are all justifying what we already KNOW deep
AS> down, in many instances.

EXACTLY. No gods required.

Now then; you ignored the question. Who gave your gods the 
right to grant "forgiveness?" Isn't that the venue of those
who have been injured?

>DR> 3a) Since "a morally upright life" is defined by
>DR> the society one lives in, in the time one finds
>DR> oneself, what is considered "moral" changes.

AS> Does not necessarily apply.

It always has. Always. As in =ALWAYS.= There has never 
been a time or place where humanity itself did not define 
what is and is not "right" and "wrong." These definitions, 
from one society to the next, nearly always contain some 
of the same ideas about "right" and "wrong" (nature) but 
they nearly always contain radically different concepts 
(nurture).

AS> If there is an eternal God[sic],

Why posit imaginary super-pals? Isn't part of adulthood 
and maturity the inclusion of growing out of such fantasies
and make-believe?

AS> His[sic] standards do not change, although He[sic] may 
AS> alter them to suit the stage of developement WE are in
AS> as a society. As my rules for my ten year old will be 
AS> different from any rules I might give him when he is 
AS> seventeen. I haven't changed. He will.

#1) You aren't an "absolute frame of regerence" with 
regards to what is "right" and "wrong."

#2) You exist; by every account known to humanity,
gods do not appear to exist.

#3) Our society grants you the right to dictate to your
offsprind what is "right" and "wrong." There is no such
parallel for your gods.

>DR> 3b) Morality has nothing to do with gods: Al's or
>DR> anyone's.

AS> On the contrary, I think it has everything to do with 
AS> it; not religion. 

That is obvious, though you BELIEVE it: you don't "think" 
it. (Demonstrate me wrong and produce your gods and their
"absolute frame of reference").

AS> Atheists can be as moral as anyone else. But God[sic]? 
AS> Yes. If we are created by a Being[sic] concerned with 
AS> morality, our highest aspirations may reflect that 
AS> morality... however seldom we reach it in fact.

"If" this and "if" that. Why play make-believe?

>DR> Don't you want to believe that your betters will be 
>DR> punished forever?! Don't you want your resentment and 
>DR> frustration in life (due to your mediocre, rather
>DR> inferior and pathetic life) revenged upon those who
>DR> are better, happier, and more fulfileld than you?!
>DR> That's what Christianity is all about, after all.

AS> I don't think so. I don't think Martin Luther King 
AS> thought so either. To name just one.

That only demonstrates the fact that he knew a potent tool 
(religion) when he saw it.

Now then, to reposit some questions:

1) What gave your gods the right to forgive people? Isn't 
that the right granted to the victims?

2) If there is a "absolute frame of reference" for what is 
considered "right" and "wrong," why is it that not only 
does every civilization differs, sometimes drastically, 
but each civilization's concepts of "absolute frame of 
reference" differ with time, also sometimes drastically?

3) What is this "absolute frame of reference?" Please
produce it =NOW.= Thank you.

4) Have you read Robert Green Ingersol's speach on why
nontheists are moral and ethical, even thought they lack
belief in the gods? If not, would you like to? If so,
shall I send a copy to you? If so, what is your email
address?


... Plants need animals like they need a hole in the apical meristem.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JIM STAAL
|Sub:  Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 15 Jan 97  09:22:00
EID:da9c 222f4ac0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-

>DR> ... Good news: it's "KILL JIM STAAL FOR JESUS" Week
>DR> here at HolySmoke!

JS> Oh, no-o-o-o-o-o! Not again!

It seems to occur three or four times a year. I dunno.

P.S. Your name is plastered on all of my boat's windows.
It's damn anoying---- I'm thinking about replacing them
just to get rid of the tiny, in-the-corner etched-in
word. Sheeeish.

... Science invites inquiry. God dies from that activity.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 15 Jan 97  09:24:00
EID:ea91 222f4b00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Robert Curry <=-

>RC> Indeed. And thus I can say that the Tooth Fairy
>RC> does exist. Can't you? Have you never been the
>RC> Tooth Fairy?

Just walk down Hollywood Blvd at night....

JB> I have never been the Tooth fairy.

Quantum physics demonstrates that there is a Tooth
Fairy, and that there is only one. Don't blame me if
you don't understand the math that proves it.

... Marriage is like a novel, except the hero dies right away.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JIM STAAL
|Sub:  Literally Seaking
|Date: 15 Jan 97  10:17:00
EID:ebfd 222f5220
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-

>DR> By the way, the "first person" is nonsense: individuals
>DR> do not evolve---- populations do. The first humans were
>DR> a population of females and males.

JS> We agree. The first persons _were_ male and female.

Your "English major" needs to be improved upon. The
above should read "The first people were males and
females."

... "Those 'facts' are meaningless to me. I live by faith." -- Jim Staal
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JIM STAAL
|Sub:  Well, women?
|Date: 15 Jan 97  10:19:00
EID:a1df 222f5260
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-

>DR> I have a theory about this in general (not Mister Staal
>DR> particular), i.e. men who hate women.

JS> David, you wound me. I don't hate women. I respect and
JS> appreciate them in general, and the Lovely Wilbur [tm]
JS> in particular. As my temp career in retail winds to a
JS> close, I have learned much about the fairer sex, having
JS> worked with them on a daily basis (and learned from them

Many messages from you in this forum seem to imply some
animosity, frustration, and perhaps even rage at women.

JS> BTW, when does your seafaring experiment begin?

Last September. :-) That's when I purchased the boat. I
shove off in the first or second week of April, 1997CE.

... >>> Pardon my driving: I'm trying to reload <<<
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   FREDRIC RICE
|Sub:  Mustard Bath!
|Date: 15 Jan 97  10:38:00
EID:8898 222f54c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-

FR> What did you pay for the 115vac inverter?

The 120 watt one cost about US$60.00 at West Marine.
I then purchased a 300 watt one for about US$180.00
and gave the first one to Lyndette.

FR> I wonder what the inverter would do to the battery.

Drain it utterly.


... 14th Rule of Creationism: no evidence? Quote "authorities!"
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   FREDRIC RICE
|Sub:  Mustard Bath! #2
|Date: 15 Jan 97  11:14:00
EID:c07e 222f59c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-

FR> What did you pay for the 115vac inverter?

Addressed previously. :-) If I'd thought about it I would 
have given to you my old one. The 300 watt inverter to
to run my computer.

FR> I wonder what the inverter would do to the battery.

One may buy interters that produce 2000 watts, but the 
greater the watt ratting, the more amps the battery bank 
needs to deliver. The battery in my boat is a "starting" 
battery, which means it will deliver a very lare amount of 
amps over the span of 30 or 40 seconds. The greater the 
discharge, the more damage to the battery; the more often 
it is discharged, the more damage. Starter batteries can 
be cycled from fully charged to nearly drained only a
few scores of times (40 or 50) before beeding replaced.

For my inverter, I want two deep-cycle batteries. These
batteries have a charge/discharge cycle lifetime in the
hundreds. Since my boat's engine is small and since it
does not have to start in very cold temperatures, the
deep-cycle batteries will start the engine without any
problem, but they will give me constant amps over long
periods of time before needing to recharge.

Just how I'm going to recharge is the problem. A wind
turbine costs US$800 from West Marine: buying the hardwear 
to mount it costs as well. Solar panels are too large.

Since your boat is motorized, your engine runs much longer 
than a sail boat's. That's why a "starter" battery is find 
for your boat. If you want house lighting, you'll want a 
deep-cycle battery and a battery charger that is regulated 
at 14.4 volts and will shut itself down once the battery 
is fully charged. The extra two volts is because batteries 
resist charge.

FR> We didn't have power for three days here at the house 
FR> so I pulled the boat battery out and put it in my
FR> living room.  I wired a car headlight to it for light
FR> at night and we invited people and children over for
FR> popcord, coffee, and the mystery radio tapes you gave
FR> me.  I had the only house with electric light strong
FR> enough to read with -- every other house was totally
FR> dark or had flickering candle light. Afterwards the
FR> power came back and I put the battery back into the
FR> boat -- it fired right up, even after running the
FR> lights for untold hours.

Yeah, I heard you have 70 MPH winds up there. I only
had to ride out 50 MPH winds with 65 MPH gusts. Even
under bare poles my boat was heeling so sharply that
when I woke up at night I thought I was sinking.

FR> Do you have a continuity tester?  That would have 
FR> helped pick apart the wires. And it's a Real Good
FR> Thing that you've decided to do things right the
FR> third time.

I almost wished the pump into the corn field. Or by-
the-board (over the side, Davy's Locker).


... Kali loves me, this I know, for the Vedas tell me so!
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   MIMI MILSTEIN
|Sub:  True Folk
|Date: 15 Jan 97  11:43:00
EID:a135 222f5d60
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Mimi Milstein to David Rice <=-

>MM> I think all the sheet music only carries the German 
>MM> words, as custom demands The Rings to be performed
>MM> in the original.

I wouldn't dream of vulgarizing a performance of Der Ring 
in English.  :-)  My desire was to know enough about the
piece in English so I could follow along during 
performance.

MM> I do, however, have translations of the libretto to 
MM> both English and French. A 200 page book was included
MM> with the complete record set of The Ring, conducted
MM> by Herbert von Karajan, by Deutsche Grammophon.

Cool! Stuck up your hands and hand it over!  :-)

MM> The 19-LP record set is numbered "2720 051" and 
MM> carries no further bibliographic information - but
MM> I bought it more than 30 years ago so that should
MM> place it somewhere in the 50es or 60es (perhaps
MM> the "051" is the actual year).
MM>
MM> The book (without even a copyright year) mentions the 
MM> English translators as Lionel Salter and Willian Mann - 
MM> probably Brits, as the present translation is derived
MM> from William Mann's 'Complete English version of The
MM> Ring made at the request of Friends of the Covent
MM> Garden'.
MM>
MM> So there, Deutsche Grammophon, Salter, and Mann should 
MM> get you going in a library search :-)

I thank you 1812 times! I'll go a'hunting. You have proved 
yet once again how educational, enlightening, and 
spiritually fulfilling HOLYSMOKE is!

As it happened I was at Boarder's Records and Books five 
days ago and I asked the music salesperson if he "had The 
Ring from Wagnar." He went looking for the title under "V" 
and didn't find anything. I didn't know he thumbed through 
the "V" section because he was right next to the "W" 
section at the time. :-) I found a fugue or two, a dirge, 
a romantic or two, "Tannha:user," but no "Der Ring des 
Nibelungen." I wonder if Woden knows Boarders' doesn't
carry him. :-)


... Nothing is wrong with you that reincarnation can't cure.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   JUDITH BANDSMA
|Sub:  Gnat and abortion
|Date: 15 Jan 97  14:21:00
EID:b899 222f72a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to All <=-


>NC> I posted some information, studies are just begining 
>NC> in the area abortion and breast cancer.

Bull dung.

>NC> this[sic] should at the very least be "discussed" 
>NC> along with any other topic... but the high IQ folks
>NC> like yourself are so afraid that there may be side
>NC> affects to abortion you all run like a bunch of
>NC> scared rabbits.

Ah. The old have-you-ceased-beating-your-spouse trick.

JB> In the most recent New England Journal of Medicine (it 
JB> may have the word American in there somewhere but I'm
JB> not sure.) there is an article on the ACTUAL research
JB> done on this topic.
JB> 
JB> The study was done in Denmark (where, I gather, 
JB> abortion has always been legal) on 1.5 million women
JB> born between 1935 and 1970, on the correlation of
JB> abortion to increased risk of breast cancer.
JB> 
JB> Data was collected from data bases and the women's
JB> actual medical records rather than relying on
JB> interview data. One and a half million is a large
JB> number, especially for a country the size of Denmark.
JB> The study was homogeneous in that all the women were
JB> Danish citizens and it was controlled for outside
JB> factors. (Although I can't cite which and how... I
JB> have only read a precis and not the actual article.)
JB> 
JB> The findings were surprising...absolutely NO difference
JB> in the incidence of breast cancer in those who had had 
JB> abortions. NONE, nada, zip, zilch. The numbers held
JB> across the board.
JB> 
JB> To the gnat... what's next now that this has been 
JB> DEFINITELY blown out of the water? I know! How about
JB> the correlation of men who father babies who get
JB> aborted and the incidence of impotence? (Makes as
JB> much sense to me as the other.)

Maybe there should be a study concerning male impotency 
and Fundamentalism.


... Nothing fails as much as prayer fails.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   DAVID WORRELL
|Sub:  Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 15 Jan 97  14:47:00
EID:1821 222f75e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Ed Mills <=-

>>FR> Imagine 10,000 caltrops dumped out the back of a 
>>FR> pick-up on a 10-mile long section of public-land
>>FR> logging road.

"The Monkeywrench Gang." Good book.

>EM> I shall, if you'll apprise me of what a caltrop is.

DW> Have you ever played jacks? Imagine a large jack with 
DW> pointed ends. Notice how now matter how you throw it
DW> down, it always lands with one point sticking up.

Would be anoying during rush hour.

DW> Caltrops were invented to deal with horse cavalry. 
DW> They also work rather well against wheeled vehicles.

Joshua Slocum used carpet tacts scattered on his deck
to keep the (barefooted) natives from coming aboard
and slitting his throat.

DW> Oddly enough, I've seen several WWII era tank 
DW> obstacles that look like caltrops, although I can't 
DW> imagine someone throwing out a handful of 30 ton
DW> cement jacks.

These were probably also used on beaches to slow down
amphibious landing vehicles.


... Help your L.A. police---- beat up some homosexuals and black people.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   DAVID WORRELL
|Sub:  Matt Giwer
|Date: 15 Jan 97  14:56:00
EID:32ec 222f7700
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to All <=-

DW> Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer? It seems
DW> he has acheived noteriety on the Internet approaching
DW> that enjoyed by Steve Winter. 
DW> 
DW> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

I recall the stupid shit well.  :-)  He's the guy who
"quoted" Bill Clinton's views on gun control, but the
quote he attributed to Clinton were in fact spoken
by Adolph Hitler.

... Saviour or Schizophrenic: Which for you? [S/s]
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   MARTIN GOLDBERG
|Sub:  FAQ!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:28:00
EID:8098 22303b80
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to David Rice <=-

>>DR> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson very
>>DR> ugly.

MG> You die.

Don't we all?

... Help your L.A. police---- beat up some homosexuals and black people.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   MARTY LEIPZIG
|Sub:  WiCCA
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:31:00
EID:ce8e 22303be0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to J.j. Hitt <=-

>>C6> i WAS JUST WONDERiNG iF ANYONE AROUND COULD GiVE ME ANY 
>>C6> ADDRESSES OF GOOD WiCCA/SATANiC STORES iN OR AROUND THE 
>>C6> TORONTO AREA. OR, iF iS WiCCAN OR SATANiC AND WOULD LiKE
>>C6> TO CHAT, POST ME BACK......K?

>JH> All out of Magick Fuck Me Candles?

ML> He was too chicken to buy the pussy candles.

Made out of cat tallow.

... Your charade is wearing thin, Jimbo. Just like your lack of meds. -
DC
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   ROD SWIFT
|Sub:  Forwarded Message
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:00
EID:4e65 22303da0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Rod Swift to David Rice <=-

RS> Are we gated to the net now?

We were until my internet service provider changed
NNTP servers. The new server refuses to get the
newsgroup alt.atheism.holysmoke

... "Professional creationists:" ignorant fundies who lie for a living.
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   DAVID WORRELL
|Sub:  J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:54:00
EID:0f5d 223046c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Starfire <=-

>>JJH> You mean those ignorant shits who never invented
>>JJH> the wheel? Or a written language?

>S> But better than the ignorant Shits who did invent
>S> the wheel and nearly destroyed the world in the
>S> process.

DW> Which ignorant Shits[sic] would those be?
DW> As far as I'm aware, no one has even come close to
DW> destroying the world. 

Xemu / Xenu didn't even come close, and he was dropping
atom bombs from DC-8s on Earth 75,000,000 years ago! It
would take a great deal of effort to destroy Earth.

Destroying all life on Earth would be much easier.

... "Be fuckers and multiply...." -- Genesis 1:22 (paraphrased)
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   ANDREW MASTEN
|Sub:  Andy's on the ropes
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:20:00
EID:416e 22305280
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten <=-

AM> Which would lead you more horrified, to find one
AM> of your children being a satanist[sic] or a Christian?

Without a doubt, I'd rather they were Satanists than
Christians, since Satanists tend to be ethical while
Christians tend not to be.

... Political incorrectness on drive C: - (A)bort (R)etry (P)ersecute?
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   ANDREW MASTEN
|Sub:  Anthropic asininities
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:23:00
EID:1a20 223052e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten <=-

AM> By the way, by your definition, nuetrinos are
AM> non-existant since they leave no evidence.

There is a very large tank of water under the ground
at San Diablo New Mexico that detects and counts
the passage of neutrinos every day. Therefore, they
leave evidence, therefore you're wrong, as usual.

... Religious error:  (A)tone  (R)epent  (K)ill A Non-Christian
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub:  No, really
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:08:00
EID:2dac 22305900
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to David Rice <=-

>DR> It is inconceivable (pardon the pun) that women
>DR> this day and age would go to a Pagan festival
>DR> to meet men, let alone to "have sex." The "sexual
>DR> revolution" is dead: AIDS nuked it.

GTP> I don't know what the pagan community is like
GTP> where you live (although I've heard that they
GTP> are very yuppy and elitest out there), but here,
GTP> life goes on as usual.

The Pagan community in Orange County, California, does not 
exist. In its stead we have NewAge yuppies who learn what 
is passed off as "Wicca" during high-priced "classes" at 
local NewAge book stores. Any Fundamentalist Wiccan who
observed such vulgar "classes" would poop a brick. I went
to one of these "classes" (as a guest, i.e. free) at the
Visions and Dreams bookstore, and I cannot find anything
nice to say about it.

Some of them thought Starhawk was some kind of divine 
being worthy of worship herself.

GTP> "All acts of love and joy are my sacraments" is a 
GTP> line from the Charge of the Goddess.

There is a Southern California corollary to the Charge of 
the Goddess that excludes the "love" and "joy" bit unless
there is a notorized contract stipulating exact details,
time frames, and legal denials.

GTP> I have not noticed any diminuation of acts of love 
GTP> and joy.

There isn't any in this State. :-)

GTP> In fact, they are still trying to find a way for 
GTP> people to advertise their availability and perferences. 
GTP> Those necklances were cute, two years ago, but no one 
GTP> found out until too late.

I was more-or-less in the group that tried to plan the 
"communication" ribbon or button. Green for "Don't ask;" 
yellow for "straight, please ask;" blue for "homosexual, 
don't ask;" black for "too goddamned old, ask anyhow;" 
etc. etc. etc. At the time I objected because there would 
be so many different colored ribbons to meet every sexual 
preference and inclination. It was "decided" that a simple 
ribbon denoting "I'm safe to talk to about sex; I will 
answer every question politely, friendly, and calmly" 
would suffice.

The "problem" with the approach was that there was no way 
to discuss the issue in depth with the entire community
at Dragonfest. In 1994 I heard it would be at least five
years before the experiment was tried at Dragonfest.

GTP> Evidence of my pov would be
GTP> that there was just a wedding at Samhain of two folks
GTP> who met a Dfest two years ago. . .the same time as
GTP> TigerEyes and Bruce were getting to know each other.

You mean there's a danger of getting married?! Then FORGET 
IT! :-)

GTP> The only thing AIDS has done is force people to be 
GTP> more careful. All the men, for a change, carry condoms
GTP> in hopes of finding a willing female. (Well, most are
GTP> looking for females.)  If no one was having sex,
GTP> why would there need to be a condom cop?

To arrest condoms? I dunno why there's a condom cop. In 
1989 I put two long rolls of condoms on the community 
center board, with a note saying "Alley Cat [that was my 
festival name that year] says 'Be Safe!'" and every day 
after that five or six a day would be gone. I've often 
wondered who took them and why. :-) That was the only time 
I took condoms to Dragonfest (the box of 50 was cheep). I 
handed out the rest at the local women's clinics, to the 
Catholics blocading the doors.

>DR> No one said anything about not wishing to spend time 
>DR> with women.

GTP> And how many women do you know who hang around in 
GTP> your tent?

Non sequitur.

>DR> There is no warning light to tell one the difference. 
>DR> It's best to not bother flirting, since that is the
>DR> most polite behavior.

GTP> You don't know enough pagan women, David. A pagan 
GTP> woman will tell you to sod off if she isn't interested.
GTP> I think you just aren't good at recognizing the signs
GTP> that someone is interested in you. The blonde woman, 
GTP> Moon-something, was interested in you. You just didn't 
GTP> seem to notice and being crowded in with three hundred 
GTP> other people didn't seem a good time to mention it.

If she was interested, she should have kicked me in the 
shins.


... "If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease." -- Clark Adams
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub:  No, really II
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:37:00
EID:dd2a 22305ca0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to David Rice <=-

>>GTP> No, not at all. It was an accusation of hiding
>>GTP> in your tent.

>DR> But I =am= a glutton and lush.

GTP> Really. I hadn't noticed. Well, hopefully we will 
GTP> have a couple of gallons of mead ready by then. Come
GTP> have a quaff or two.

Well, "glutton" at any rate. I intensely dislike the taste 
of alcohol.

>DR> I wasn't "hiding in my tent." I just had nothing to 
>DR> do but sit around and read. I did "gate duty" every
>DR> night.

GTP> I'll make sure you keep busy. There is so much going 
GTP> on, you just have to look for it. We had filksings,
GTP> which are alot of fun.

I've filked a Glen Campbell song, turing "A Rhinestone 
Cowboy" into "A Flaming Gay-boy" that is sure to get me 
killed by both straight and homosexual Pagans if I were
to sing it. " . . . and offers coming over th' 
phone. . . ." That would be fun to sing.

GTP> Have a good time and keep in touch. Our address is 
GTP> 96 Dartmouth Place

What's the ZIP code?

GTP> Are you planning on coming back for Dfest or is that 
GTP> a surprise??

I don't plan on surviving the sailing trip. If I do, it 
seems very unlikely I'll be attending Dragonfest for a
few years after that because I'll have to get a job.

>>GTP> Yes, I know. I've had to listen to sob stories.

>DR> I cannot imagine who you would be "listening" to. There
>DR> were no women at Dragonfest who "made a pass" at me.

GTP>  I've seen one do it, you just didn't notice.

If that were true I would have noticed her seeing-eye dog.

>>>GTP> What you seem to fail to understand is that most 
>>>GTP> of us are empathic. You give off "don't touch me"
>>>GTP> vibes.

>>>DR> No I don't. That was Thomas Covenant, book five.

>>GTP> Yes, you do.

>DR> I do not so there!

GTP> Yes, you do.

Do not.

GTP> That would be telling. I can tell you that AGAIN 
GTP> this year I didn't manage to make any time with that 
GTP> gorgeous redhead from Grand Junction. Damn, I love his 
GTP> hair. If you can get back for Dfest, I'll share my 
GTP> exploits over a glass of mead.

Oooo, secrets! I love spreading (er, I mean HEARING) 
secrets!

>DR> THAT woman? I thought she was awesome and fun to be
>DR> with, but she showed no interest at all in spending
>DR> time with me. She was too busy being Demeter.

GTP> She was shyer than you and kept giving you fawn 
GTP> eyes.

Did not.

GTP> She's an artist, btw, so she's entitled to act "odd".

Fortunately, I =PREFER= "odd." It's excisting wondering
if the personality one went to sleep with is the same as
the one one wakes up to.

>>GTP> I don't remember the name, just that you fled into 
>>GTP> your tent.

>DR> You're making this up, right?

GTP> NO!

Are too!

>DR> Melody was years before you met me at Dragonfest. Her 
>DR> boyfriend was Gerold someone-or-other who was a real
>DR> pain in the ass (Sean knows who I'm talking about).

GTP> Gerald Bliss!!!!!  ARGHHHHHH!

Ah, so you know him. :-) Yep, that was the name.

GTP> Melody?? Was she a little redhead who was ditzy??

I hope this doesn't sound as cruel as it sounds :-) but:

"Ditzy" doesn't even begin to describe her. Clinging, 
neurotic, desperate, needing. Every time I turned around 
she was standing a foot behind me. I'd wake up and crawl 
out of the tent and she's be there. Sit down on a rock in 
the middle of the forest, all alone, and *POOF!* there she 
was standing in front of me. She stalked me from dusk to 
dawn and smarled with rage in her eyes at every other 
woman I talked to. I wanted to spend time with Mary Gay,
Magenta Griffith, and two of the four Melissas instead.

>DR> She said she's broken up with that boyfriend I saw 
>DR> her with three years ago, and asked if I were really
>DR> shy or just "polite."

GTP> And you told her??

Yes.

>DR> That was five or six letters ago.

GTP> !!!!!!!!

???????

>DR> I would dearly love to go to Dragonfest '97. I still 
>DR> have an issue or two with You Know Who (Starwyn) that 
>DR> needs to be tackled, man-to-woman.

GTP>   And she's still single. 

She's been abducted by space aliens. No one I know has 
seen her. The last I heard, she planned on DF'96 but her
autocar ceased functioning.

>DR> If I had a job and a place to put my boat for five 
>DR> months, I'd go to  DR> Dragonfest.

GTP>   I could burn a candle for you. It would be an
GTP> interesting experiment. Hey, what do yo do, anyway??

Network administrator; AS/400 operator; Microsoft Access
database guru; programmer; seaman; sit and look pretty.

>DR> You know. Now that I think of it, I could cruise the 
>DR> Sea of Cortez from April until mid-August, go to 
>DR> Dragonfest, and in September sail to the Marquesas. 
>DR> Hummm.....

GTP> Oh, that sounds GREAT. Where would you put in for Dfest?

Wrapped in laytex.

Oh, you mean the boat! At the Dana Point Guest Dock.

GTP> I could try to find you a ride.

I plan on keeping my pickup.


... A zealot's stones may break my bones, but gods will never hurt me
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To:   J.J. HITT
|Sub:  JEREMIAH 31:15 / Matthew
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:41:00
EID:f0bf 22305d20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting J.j. Hitt to Leonard Bernier <=-

JH> On Jan 11 11:48 97, Leonard Bernier of 1:225/364 wrote:

LB> PROPHECY - Herod will kill the children.

LB> Thus says the Lord, "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation
LB> are bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children, she
LB> refuses to be compforted for her children, because they are
LB> no more."

JH> It doesn't mention Herod.
JH> It doesn't mention any king.
JH> It doesn't mention the cause of death.
JH> It doesn't even mention death.
JH>
JH> And who in the fuck is this Rachel bitch anyway?

Prophecies: Imaginary and Unfulfilled
Farrell Till

The same is true of the greater part of the prophecy "fulfillments" 
boasted of in the New Testament. A careful study of the original 
contexts will cast serious doubts on the efforts of the New 
Testament writers to construe them as prophecies. In Matthew 2:18, 
for example, we are told that Herod's decree to kill all male 
children under two in and around Bethlehem fulfilled a prophecy of 
Jeremiah: "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation, weeping, and 
great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, refusing to be 
comforted, Because they are no more." If, however, one reads this 
statement in its original context in Jeremiah 31 and the two 
preceding chapters, he will see that the passage was addressing the 
problem of Jewish dispersion caused by the Babylonian captivity. 
Time and time again, Jeremiah promised that the Jews would be 
recalled from captivity to reclaim their land. Finally, in the verse 
quoted by Matthew, he said, "Thus says Yahweh: `A voice was heard in 
Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her 
children, refusing to be comforted for her children, because they 
are no more'" (31:15). That Jeremiah intended this statement to 
apply to the dispersion contemporary to his times is evident from 
the verses immediately following, where he promised a return of 
those who had been scattered: "Thus says Yahweh: `Refrain your voice 
from weeping, And your eyes from tears; For your work shall be 
rewarded, says Yahweh, And they [Rachel's children] shall come back 
from the land of the enemy. There is hope in your future, says 
Yahweh, that your children shall come back to their own border" 
(vv:16-17). If verse 15 (the weeping verse) was indeed a prophecy of 
Herod's massacre, why would the rest of the passage, which promised 
the re-turn of Rachel's children, not also be prophetic? Indeed, it 
would have to be, wouldn't it? Yet there is no claim in Matthew's 
gospel account that the children slaughtered under Herod's edict 
were ever brought back to their border, which would have 
necessitated a restoration to life. Hence, in this case, Rachel's 
"work" was never "rewarded," and these children of hers never "came 
back." Aside from this, "children" was obviously being used by 
Jeremiah in a figurative sense to mean the descendants of Rachel, 
adults as well as children, and not to designate literal children 
only, as would have to be the case if events in Matthew 2 are to be 
interpreted as fulfillment of a "prophecy." The conclusion, then, is 
inescapable: Jeremiah 31:15 was a prophecy of Herod's massacre only 
because Matthew distorted it into one.


... Help your L.A. police---- beat up some homosexuals and black people.
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  truth
|Date: 15 Jan 97 16:28:00
EID:6f70 222f8380
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2dd89901
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to J.J. Hitt <=-

Good morning, Al.

AS> I don't
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
AS> Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.

Why not?

Take care.

... One planet...  One people....  Please!
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  dark bible #4
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:01
EID:f207 22303da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a045e
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 9 Jan 97 01:19pm, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to ROBERT CURRY:


JB> That's not quite the tale.  If I had simply said "gimme a meteor, God,"
JB> and then gone out and looked for one, your argument would be clearly
JB> valid.  However, I did not do this.  I said "gimme a meteor, God, at
JB> exactly 12 midnight on December 21st (winter solstice)," and I said
this
JB> six months in advance of the event.

JB> In other words, your comparison with meteor-seeing statistics is unfair;
JB> you'd have to offer a statistical likelihood of seeing a meteor in a
JB> specified window of time.  The "chance of seeing a meteor" is much
JB> greater than the "chance of seeing a meteor at exactly 10:37 PM."

In your original post on this, you mentioned that you saw
your meteor not exactly at midnight, that it was a few minutes
off.

JB> I'm an old meteor-buff.  I knew the chances of seeing one on any
JB> particular night, and I keep an eye out for mentions on the news or
in
JB> the astronomy mags of the Perseids, the Leonids, and so forth.

So soon you forget the Urids, and that they peaked on that
night.



... "GET a life? I'm scared my life's gonna get me!"
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  fat people
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:02
EID:5201 22303da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a04d5
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 11 Jan 97 11:04am, J.J. HITT wrote to DAVID WORRELL:


JH>  I was just thinking about how Tiger Thighs has chosen to make a
JH>  big deal about native aboriginal cultures. If they aint partiarchal,
JH>  I'm goddam Mother Teressa.

There were several hundred different cultures; best not to
make such a sweeping generalization.  Quite a few were matrilineal
and the man had to move in with his wife's relatives and be
counted as her clan.  In some, for instance the Iroquois
confederation, women had a say in government.  And FWIW, I do know
that in the late '80s, the head of the Cherokee was Wilma
Mankiller.

So, while I still wouldn't mistake you for a saint, I do
have to wonder whether you've ever taken money from Charles
Keating.  8-)



... Ceci n'est pas une tagline.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  native americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:03
EID:b9e3 22303da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a054c
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 11 Jan 97 03:53am, DAN CEPPA wrote to TIGER EYES:


JJH>>  You mean those ignorant
DC> shits who never invented the wheel?
JJH>>  Or a written language?

TE>> Look you ignorant Nazi, skin-head motherfucker!  If it weren't for
us

DC> You protest too much.  Got any evidence that that American Indians
DC> invented the wheel?

DC> I'll give you the quasi-written language.

Without a domesticated "beast of burden," of what use
would a wheel have been?


... Clop. Clop. "I'm a cowboy-hippie, hippie-ay." Clop. Clop.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  superstion
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:04
EID:1705 22303da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a05c3
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 11 Jan 97 07:03pm, J.J. HITT wrote to ROGER HUNTER:

JH>   Even the cyanide family isn't as fast as the movies would
JH>   have us believe.

JH>   According to Final Exit, potasium cyanide _when_ _prepaired_
JH>   _correctly_ can produce unconsciousness in less than a
JH>   minute, but death may not follow for more than an hour.

JH>   When not properly prepaired, you can remain conscious and
JH>   in extreme pain for hours. (Jonestown showed ample evidence
JH>   of this.) The key factors being wether one has an empty
JH>   stomach and a high stomach acidity.

Yep.  That's the reason why Rasputin didn't die of his
dose--he'd just polished off a huge meal before visiting the
conspirators.


... OS/2:. . .And the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  in passing
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:45:05
EID:4950 22303da0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a063a
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 11 Jan 97 07:44pm, DAN CEPPA wrote to AL SCHROEDER:


DC>> Never read that.  However, I did read Asimov's short story on Entropy.

AS>> Title? Asimov wrote so much...

DC> _Entropy_

DC> ... Entropy!  "And the computer said, 'let there be light'"

Are you sure it wasn't _The Last Question_ that had that
punchline?

FWIW, there's a novel by David Gerrold or Gordon Eklund
named _What Entropy Means to Me_.


... I have no keyboard, and I must click-clack!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   Robert Curry
|Sub:  more babbling email
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:46:06
EID:25a8 22303dc0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a06b1
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 11 Jan 97 05:50am, ROBERT CURRY wrote to AL SCHROEDER:

RC> with: Curtis Johnson

RC>> Are you proud of the fact that you have disgusted and
RC>> thoroughly alienated him?

AS>> That is your assertion, not his

RC> My assertion has the benefit of being accurate, a characteristic
RC> alien to many of yours.

Yep.

AS>> If he was either, than that is his problem, not mine.

RC> It *was* his problem; he solved it.

Yep.  And I feel much better about it.

AS>> Jesse's a big boy, and his decisions are his own. Similarly,
AS>> Curtis is a big boy, and HIS decisions are his own.

And this was one of the right ones.

I might do the occasional correcting of an Al "fact"--and
there's plenty of them to do, but I'm staying away from that tar
baby.  Jeez, he's *still* whining about the e-mail thing!  Has it
hit 2 months yet that he's been doing that?

My board's e-mail finally came up a couple of days after
the FIDO connection was restored.  My previous e-mail may not have
reached you because the board's problems; but to make sure, you're
at curry@gte.net, right?




... Conan was a hacker.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  whose mantra?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:47:07
EID:9a06 22303de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a0728
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
LW>>> But seriously, Heisenberg has long since put to rest the idea
LW>>> that even physical events can always be predicted in precise
LW>>> mathematical detail. The old, mechanistic view of the universe
LW>>> is, if not dead, terminally ill.

CJ>>         Quantum mechanical statistics converge to give the
CJ>>  "mechanistic" view for macroscopic events.
CJ>>         The interesting thing about quantum mechanics is that the
CJ>>  statistical predictions are eminently mathematical; the
CJ>>  controversy is on what the mathematics mean.
CJ>>         Get hold of a text on quantum mechanics for physicists who
CJ>>  have to use it:  it will be fiercely mathematical.

DW> Do you ever wish that people like Fritjoff  Capra had all been
DW> stillborn?

Capra himself wasn't that bad; I suspect he's quite
embarrassed by all the New-Agey types who somehow came away from
the book convinced that it's scientific to be a fuzzy thinker.

I've convinced that something similar happens with fundies
and their bible: if they can't understand it, then it *must* be
true--and best of all, since they can't fully understand it, they
get to think what they misunderstand is true.


... Nightmare:  Cats with opposable thumbs.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  goodbye!  goodbye!  n
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:47:08
EID:c6ff 22303de0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a079f
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
SM>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!"   [d&rg]
JH>> GOURDS! GOURDS!  SQUASH HIM!
DC>> GARRANDS!  GARRANDS!  SHOOT HIM!
ML>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
RV>> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
KW>> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE!  MILK HIM!
cj>> GALACTOSE!  GALACTOSE!  RUN HIM!
FR> GLUCOSE!  GLUCOSE!  GLAZE HIM!

GRACKLES! GRACKLES! PECK HIM!


... Without a revision, the characters perish.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  dark bible #4
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:49:09
EID:f207 22303e20
MSGID: 1:261/1137 300a0816
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
JB>> placement involved.  In my personal experience (say, a total of 200
or
JB>> 250 hours of eye-on-dark-sky watching), the number of meteors I see
per
JB>> hour is WAY below what you note below.  Most nights, I'm lucky to see
JB>> _one_.

CJ>>         Should we then conclude that there is a Quantum God, but
CJ>>  that it didn't want you to see meteors?

JB> (*chuckle*)  No, meteor-watching is just not very personally
JB> quantifiable.  I'm VERY SLIGHTLY nearsighted.  I might miss seeing some
JB> of the really faint ones.

It's quite quantifiable on a personal basis--the
quantification is statistical.

JB>> Hypothesis (and the experience) is the timing and placement.  One needs
JB>> not only ask how many meteors are average, but also how many meteors
JB>> should be expected from _demanding_them_at_a_specific_ time, say, within
JB>> a five-minute window, and further, one would have to ask what the
JB>> probability is for repeating this a few times.

CJ>>         Agreed.  Which is why one should first check out what the
CJ>>  background (aka "sporadic") rate is first, then check dates of
CJ>>  meteor showers--in the case of your date, the Ursids.

JB> I agree.  I did not claim perfect experimental rigidity for this event,
JB> only that the event _did_occur_ as described.

That it occurred is all too believable, with a sporadic
background of a meteor every 7-8 minutes, on the average, even
when the particular night is not one for a shower--and your
selected night marks the peak of the Urids.

CJ>>         BTW, in 1999 there should be quite a show from (IIRC) the
CJ>>  Leonids, which tend to recur every 33 years.  Unfortunately, it'll
CJ>>  probably play into the hand of the millenialists.

JB> That's good news.  (Not the millennialists' overzealous minor
JB> insanities; the meteor shower's hopefully unusual density.)

As far as sky shows goes, Comet Hale-Bopp is looking pretty
good for spring.  Just reached the distance of Martian orbit, and
it's magnitude 4.5.

JB>> given a) the "God," b) the "God's" ability to detect human mentation
JB>> (hence "make appointments"), c) the "God's" willingness to, say, divert
JB>> meteors slightly, and d) the quantum facts of chaos-theory adjustability
JB>> and quantum probabilistic meddlings, the statistics of such "coincidence
JB>> testing" _should_ show a definite deviation from the expected
JB>> probabilistic "norm."  Eh?

CJ>>         Given the premises a), b), c), and d), offhand I see no
CJ>>  reason to argue your conclusion.  There is, howver, 4 premises
CJ>>  which do not necessarily apply--and in fact, at least the first 3
CJ>>  are supposedly what were being proved (IOW, circular reasoning).

JB> Hmmm... I don't think it's circular, when couched in the form of an
JB> hypothesis.  That is, when one creates an hypothesis, one assumes that
JB> the effect hypothesized is there to be looked for.   It is hypothesis-
JB> _testing_ that, if the conclusion were maintained in the face of the
JB> lack of evidence that the premise or premises were correct, that would
JB> name the researcher a victim of circular reasoning.  (I think)

JB> IOW, testing the hypothesis, and getting zero deviation from chance
JB> (given the known background), would negatively impact the "premises,"
JB> which is what the test is about in the first place.

JB> The first 3 are interrelated, necessary assumptions to be tested, and
JB> the fourth is a matter of fact.  IOW, I don't have a "conclusion," I
JB> have a phenomenological prediction that needs to be tested.

OK, it's a ruling out instead of a ruling-in.  However,
note that an experiment requiring *three* untested and probably
uncontrollable hypotheses does not make for a rigorous test!

CJ>>         I note that you have not even bothered to state what these
CJ>>  "interferences" are.  Presumably a red light would classify as an
CJ>>  intereference.

JB> It would.  I am used to noting "coincidences" in my life, having learned
JB> earlier that they have a peculiar consistency when tracked over time.

JB> Since I've lived here over ten years, I have a general impression of
JB> what events are "normal" or "matters of chance," and I note departures
JB> from these.  IOW, I have a "baseline," but it is not rigidly recorded;
JB> it's a matter of memory and habitual motion through my area.

Many aspects of probability are counter-intuitive, even
when they're quite quantifiable.  To give a relatively well-known
instance, in a room of a mere 30 randomly-chosen strangers, the
odds are overwhelmingly in favor that at least two will share the
same birthdate.
To make matters worse, you are relying on quite subjective
factors; there is a wealth of psychology experiments on how easily
we deceive each other in this area.

CJ>>         For starters, you'll have to categorize what "interference"
CJ>>  consists of beforehand.  Red light?  Someone asking for spare

JB> Sure.  Almost anything can be an "interference" if it trends against
my
JB> success in buying cigarettes.  For example: the number of times the
JB> store is out of my brand as compared to the number of times it isn't,
or
JB> the number of times the clerk fumbles the pack and drops it on the floor
JB> as opposed to the 'background' where he didn't (before I decided to
JB> quit), and so forth.  _Anything_ which is a) seemingly random, and b)
JB> could have been caused by a quantum-adjustable glitch in either
JB> insensate matter or the far more rapidly-processing brain of some person
JB> or animal, and which is contrary to "chance" by some perhaps small
JB> amount, is a usable datum --one instance in a memory-held collection
of
JB> such data.  Over time, one develops an impression of the general trends
JB> involved in various types of morivational exercises.

Uh, John, isn't making a pack of cigarettes disappear
(being "out of brand") within an hour or two before you show up a
greater manipulation of time and matter than the meteor you asked
for six months in advance?
Regarding my own experiences:  when I tried to quit a
couple of decades ago, I ran into an acquaintance and when I
*boasted* to him that I'd been trying to quit and had gone 30
hours without, he immediately took out his nearly-full pack and
inserted it into my pocket and walked on.  And it's the truth:
several times, when I'd been out of pocket and only a couple of
hours since smoking, I've run across half-full packs lying on the
ground.
My own *subjective* impression is that your Quantum God
*wants* me to smoke.
Or maybe, since quantum mechanics operates on a statistical
basis, maybe psychic events favorable to you are coming at the
expense of me or someone else?  (It rather reminds me of my fundy
parents praying for good weather during their Hawaii vacation--and
so, they felt (without guilt!!!) that God had extended the drought
that wiped out farmers and cost millions, just so they could have
a good time.)
AAMOF, doesn't the "butterfly effect" (you know, the
flap of a butterfly's wings theoretically being able to cause a
tornado in Nebraska a couple of weeks later) invalidate your
Quantum God listening to people?  You want fervent prayer and
belief, check out religious farmers of *any* brand when faced
with a prolonged drought; if anything that was truer in the past
when droughts were more statistically likely to kill people.

JB> BUT: it is critical for such an examination --even a cursory, imprecise
JB> one-- that a person begin to develop the habit of _looking_for_ and
JB> paying attention to, _coincidences_.  One must become more aware of
what
JB> goes on in one's visual/aural/personal space to such an extent that
one
JB> develops the ability to recall what one was _thinking_ at the moment
of
JB> coincidence, for, if there's "meaning" between thought and the external
JB> world's coincidence-component, one has to collect data over a relatively
JB> long time.  (I can't take that one improbable meteor event as evidence,
JB> but I could, if it repeated enough times.  In the 'usual' world
JB> (cigarettes), there are many occasions for repeating-coincidence data
to
JB> be collected and mentally collated.)

Yep, and even more opportunity to fool yourself.
One reason for my skepticism is that I was in a hypnotism
experiment where I *saw* a pencil that wasn't there.  It's a damn
sight  to fool yourself about how often things might
happen.




... Leave the binary thinking to your CPU.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1470
* Silver Xpress V4.00


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  "flat earth" town
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:04:20
EID:5375 22300880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd7e94
-> On 14 Jan 97  20:10:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to David Worrell


DW>Silly me. I always thought school was to teach you how to learn. They
must

KW> The sad thing, David, is that you well may be right about this part.
KW> Here in TX the aim of education is to pass a standardized test.

That, in itself, is not that bad.  Where the problem lies is 
that they lower the standards each an every year.  

... Minds are like parachutes - They only work when open
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:17:51
EID:b136 22300a20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd81bf
-> On 14 Jan 97  05:31:24, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Of which zero is the smallest infinitesimal.

JB> Illogical.  My info is that Leibnitz referred to an "infinitesimal"

JB> number as "the smallest possible NONZERO number."  If zero represented

That's the only way it could work, logically.  However, it makes 
moe sense to me to actually add all of the zeros.  Not correct, 
mathematically, but it does take care of those "minute" holes 
that are left there when you don't. 

DC> Just because we can't make a perfect block, or fully point to it's
DC> center, we can and do use mathematics to find exactly that point.

JB> Which, as zero, is not part of the block itself....

It is, and it isn't.  Yet, it's still "there".  

JB> OK, then tell, please, how you can use zero as an infinitesimal number
JB> to add to any slice?  Adding a zero does not result in a smaller

See above.  Without my way of 'adding zeroes', calculus cannot 
be exact.  Yet, it is.  Yes, as above, it's not correct, as 
0+0 is zero, but it helps me understand how it does work and 
get the answer. 

JB> number;  it results in the _same_ number.  (You present a
JB> self-cancelling  argument.)

All math is nothing but a concept, John.  If the concept is 
logical and works everytime the constraints are placed 
upon it, it makes it that much more valid.  Find a discrepancy, 
then you have to either explain it or toss out the original 
presupposition.  

JB> get rid of it (the point), according to your earlier argument, you
JB> would  have "zero points."  A point is a _one_, not a zero.  The

No, John.  It's only a point, nothing more.  

JB> "origin" of a  coordinate system uses zeroes (0,0,0), but that's a
JB> slightly different  subject (geometry; topology).

It also works with economics and accounting.  In fact, it's 
a required precept.  

DC> has an overlap at each number.  The line is only a visual
DC> representation of the concept.

JB> Please clarify "an overlap at each number."  That looks like a
JB> ludicrous  idea....

This character "  '   " represents the zero point.  However, it 
has a width, else you would not see it.  Thus, it overlaps on 
both sides as to what it really is, nothing.  


... Help fight against a cure for nymphomania.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:33:03
EID:b136 22300c20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd854f
-> On 14 Jan 97  05:31:24, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Is 1+1= 2?  Is 1+0= 1?

JB> Does +1 change what it was added to?  (yes)  Does 0 change what it was
JB> added to?  (no)  Does _any_ nonzero number change the number it is
JB> added  to?  (yes)  Does zero? (no)

DC> Try again, John.  Both of the above examples total 2.  See if you

JB> I _beg_ your effing pardon?  "Both of the above examples total 2?" 

I'll pardon you for your mistake, but only if you say, "pretty 
please".  After all:  

Absolutely.  Both statements are exactly the same about them 
both totaling "2".   

JB> One  plus zero totals to "2?"  Where IS your mind hiding today?

Right in front of you, but you didn't bother to look at the number 
of numbers that are represented before the "=".  

JB> My point stands.  I need not "try again."  My statement is trivially


But you do, John. In each case there were 2 operands.  As such, 
the manipuation of both equations required the exact same form of 
math to know that the answer was the addition of TWO numbers.  
Hence, John, each equation is the result of adding TWO numbers 
together.  That is the TWO I alluded to.  If you want to have 
a bit more fun, I'll change those numbers a bit and show you, 
on the average, they, including a zero, are average and equal.  

JB> obvious, and 'zero' is a different animal (in other ways, too) than
JB> any  other "number."

Zero does do some things differently that some other numbers, 
but it still is a number, John.  

... When I was your age Clinton was "honest"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Stuart Lumgair
|Sub:  'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:42:19
EID:4466 22300d40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd877b
-> On 14 Jan 97  09:56:30, Stuart Lumgair got back to Fredric Rice 

SL> Yes, but zero does not exist as a natural number.
SL> Claiming to see zero birds in a tree is the same as
SL> seeing zero pink unicorns in the same tree. Both are

So, just how many birds or unicorns are there in the 
tree if there are no birds or unicorns in that tree?  

... "Give the newpaper boys $100k..  On second thought, fuck em."  WCF
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:43:51
EID:59d3 22300d60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd87d7
-> On 14 Jan 97  04:26:00, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Ooops...  I forgot my recipe for Flaming Fundy, which, of course,
DC> is a vegetable dish.

Jd> Vegatable dish?....I thought it was offal!

I never did say it was a good dish, did I?      ;)  

... we are a part of nature, not the masters of it. - jonny vee
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  Al S.; Warring Christanic
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:51:45
EID:a792 22300e60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd89b1
-> On 14 Jan 97  10:40:00, Ronald Vass got back to David Worrell 

RV> ......now he's got pagens on the war path.....you get threats of
RV> getting sue/policy 4 complaints and then the top honor of 'fundy'.

Hey!  I'd try and gert you psissed of abouyt me for telling 
you how bad your spiulling is. (DOS that work?)  

RV> Dam you guys are good.

We do are best!  

RV> Dam , will just have to work harder. O'well back to the boat with
RV> some more bait.

Get it rigged with a sail and you'll really have some fun!  

... "Father, they DO know what they're doing!" Jesus in Riverworld
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Andrew Masten
|Sub:  Anthropic asininities.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  01:58:18
EID:0dc0 22300f40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd8b3a
-> On 14 Jan 97  17:51:32, Andrew Masten got back to Marty Leipzig 

AM> Thats correct. And if someone flipped a coin heads 10000 times in a
AM> row, I would suspect a fix.

You could, and you would have the right to examine the coin and 
question the tosser.  However, that does not preclude that the 
event you _witnessed_ did did not occur.  

Now, are you going to make it that "god didn't do it", or 
say "satan did"?  

... "Faith is not wishing to know what is true." - Nietzsche
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:05:59
EID:4adf 223010a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd8d07
-> On 13 Jan 97  15:37:00, Ronald Vass got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> AS> pagan world killed many Christians like animals?

DC>With the xians more than making up the difference in body count 
DC>with their own pograms[<-sic]

RV> Rapid animals can do that.

Damn, just how fast are they!  
My guess is that they hit the rapids and hopefully drowned!  

(Yes, I did at first get "rabid", but "rapid" worked best in 
my reply to you!  Sorry! & LOL!)  

... The earth does not belong to us, but us to it....
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  cheese whiz
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:13:19
EID:18e2 223011a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd8ebf
-> On 15 Jan 97  02:18:17, Curtis Johnson got back to Brett Johnson 

BJ> The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.

CJ> The Lord is an 'Indian giver.'

CJ>  think of a better phrase.>

ROLFL!  

I think that is far to appropriate!  

... What?  Me Worry?  -- Alfred E. Neuman
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Christ-Like
|Date: 16 Jan 97  02:15:55
EID:c74f 223011e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dd8f5b
-> On 15 Jan 97  06:38:20, Domino got back to David Worrell 

DW> Why? I haven't taken your "free will" away, after all.

Do> No, you havent. But I dont know a single person who wouldn't have a
Do> problem with having a loaded gun pulled on them.

Guess what:  On was just pulled on you.  

How do you respond?  Heaven or hell?  

... Special Harpy effects supplied by Bandsma, Bustilloz, Withersnight LTD
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:44:25
EID:c4e6 22305d80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de1499
-> On 14 Jan 97  17:28:16, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> You forget that he strode into the temple and used a whip on 
DC> the people there.  You are also forgetting that he told his 

JF> Once again, you people convieniently ignore what happens next.  From
JF> what I read, Jesus didn't use a whip - He just knocked the tables
JF> over.  I doubt He had a sadism fetish. :-)  He told His disciples to

Then, why did he bring the whip?  Also, the tables were legal in 
the temple.  He had no right to disrupt a legal gathering.  

JF> gather swords (a whopping -2-, by the way), but guess what?  This was
JF> no rebellion, 

Of course not, as he did not have enough support to keep it going.  
However, a rebellion was just what a messiah was supposed to do.  

JF> A PARABLE!    What statements against the Gentiles?  All I read in the
JF> Bible was of Jesus accepting Gentiles as equals to the Jewish people,

Bullshit.  Your godling was there for the Jews.  It was Saul who 
decided to branch out to the Gentiles and adopt Gentile ways.  


JF> and wanting to teach them.  It was the Pharisees who disliked and
JF> discriminated against the Gentiles. 

Wrong again.  Your godling's teachings were along the lines of 
Pharisaic beliefs.  You make the error of believing what Saul 
wrote, not the reality of the day. 

JF> Bible, you're making it up, or you're deliberately trying to mislead
JF> people. What religion do you follow?  Satanism?

Satanism is a god of your religion's pantheon.  And, your problem 
is that you don't believe the god that told you the truth.  Instead, 
you follow the deceiving god.  

... +Origin: SHAM NETWORK: Fallacies and fulminations for Kryst!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:46:28
EID:c4e6 22305dc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de1514
-> On 14 Jan 97  17:34:50, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa 

JF> That's pretty much what I was pointing out.  Guess I wasn't clear.

DC> Which parents are you talking about?  That of the girl having the 
DC> baby or the couple that got the girl pregnant?  

JF> Presumably, the parents of the mother-to-be.

Then, they still don't have that right to make the decision 
for the girl.  

... "PENNEcostal school, where God _is_ NOODLES!":  Lynda Bustilloz
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Christian Hedemark
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:48:27
EID:cf07 22305e00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de158b
-> On 14 Jan 97  01:43:03, Christian Hedemark got back to Dan Ceppa 

CH> God loves you.

Far better to be loved by a Godess than the god that you worship.  

... Gods are like roadkill: they are dead and they stink.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Christian Hedemark
|Sub:  RE: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:51:36
EID:cf07 22305e60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de1648
-> On 14 Jan 97  01:43:05, Christian Hedemark got back to Becke Boyer 

BB>Nice God you got there...and you expect us to worship this bastard??
CH>                                                           ^^^^^^^
CH> And in the same manner, I respond: Nice mouth you have there!

Right from my on-line dictionary: 

basùtard                     
noun  basùtards        
1  : illegitimate child
2  : offensive person  

adjective              
1  : illegitimate      
2  : inferior          


CH> Any serious questions?

Yep.  Why does your god so aptly fit the definition above? 

... +Origin:  Bible Pounders Network:  Beating kids for Christ's sake!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  03:19:46
EID:ca3e 22301a60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dd9ecd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd2e02
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 19:19, Steve Quarrella wrote to Fredric Rice:

SQ> You know, for once I agree with your rhetoric, at least as far as
SQ> finding out that my kid has hooked up with the local Jesus squad or
SQ> the local fad vampire cult. :)

Are you familiar with the hmm.. how to describe this? It's a group of role
players who play some vampire game, but it's not role playing in the sense
I normally think of it. It's more like acting, if you get the difference.

I've been hearing that some groups have been involved in murders and/or
attempted murders. I'm not hearing this from Christians, either.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Heathens
|Date: 16 Jan 97  03:26:40
EID:f2fb 22301b40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dda00a
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b0a
PID: GED3 2.5
14 Jan 97 20:46, Fredric Rice wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:

FR> the boat out of the water...  many things.  I know for a fact that I
FR> could land him a $59,000 a year job working with me at you-know-where
FR> even though his resume lacks some technical experience in a few areas.

T'hell with him. I can be there tomorrow... :)

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Sex at Dragon festival (don't read if you're under age)
|Date: 16 Jan 97  03:31:31
EID:a49c 22301be0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dda29e
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b11
PID: GED3 2.5
14 Jan 97 21:06, Fredric Rice wrote to Gwenny the Pooh:

FR> I was in that group of men and, as I recall, we were all too
FR> frightened to answer intelligently.  I tend to think that real bastard
FR> assholes have no difficulty asking or picking up "fawn eyes" cues; the
FR> nice husband-type- material guys, however, can barely keep from
FR> pissing themselves.

I have a friend here who is quite literally one of the most physically attractive
women I have *ever* seen. She's always asking me why men don't ask her out.
"errr... Maybe because you scare the piss out of 'em?"

On several occasions she has done the "fawn eyes" bit to guys that interest
her while we are out together. She doesn't understand when I tell her that
any guy she gets while in the company of another male is very likely to
be a complete shithead. I try to get her to go out alone, and she says,
"But then all the guys will be hitting on me!" By this point in this recurrent
conversation, I start looking for a brick wall to bash my head against.

Women are fucking *odd*.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Fat Bones and (Atheists + Pagans + Wiccans) vs. Death Cults
|Date: 16 Jan 97  03:38:42
EID:e553 22301cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dda30b
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd1ce0
PID: GED3 2.5
FR>> ___THOUSANDS___ of messages David W. has posted, he's guilty
FR>> (maybe guilty) of ___ONE___ careless remark.

It wasn't a careless remark.

It was a finely crafted remark that has served its purpose quite well.

Other than that, I agree with what you said completely. :)

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Native Americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97  03:40:47
EID:43d5 22301d00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32dda35d
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd2382
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 18:23, Steve Quarrella wrote to Tiger Eyes:

SQ> PPS:  I am not ignorant, affiliated with the Nazi party, bald, or
SQ> interested in relations with my mother.

But you've got a small dick, right? :)

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:14:24
EID:3a11 223039c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd59d
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 050bc278
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Jim Staal!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Jim Staal
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Oops, Caught Again:

JS>> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV)  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS>> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

GT>> Blatantly self-serving, entirely unsupported, and completely
GT>> irrelevant.

JS> Only in the eyes of Pagan scum.

I know lots of Pagans, but only a couple that would qualify as Pagan scum.
I find that the percentages are a lot higher over on your side.

Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... "Bother," said Pooh as he scalped his latest victim.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:15:54
EID:bac4 223039e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd66a
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 03fbebdc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Jim Staal!

Monday January 13 1997 20:43, Jim Staal wrote to Glen Todd:

GT>> I can _guarantee_ you that the divine Pooh-bear does _not_ hate men
GT>> (except, perhaps, for ignorant, misogynistic fundy men and a couple
of
GT>> alleged atheists so moronic that they might as well be fundies), and
GT>> is definitely much better qualified for deity-hood than a certain
GT>> ignorant, sadistic, death-obsessed desert bully-boy that I could
GT>> name.)

JS> Excuse me? Like any other human born under the sun other than Jesus
JS> Christ, I nor she am qualified to be deified.

I can guarantee that you don't.   Jeshua bar Joseph (who is not who I was
referring to) -- not in evidence.    And if you'll note, I said much better
_qualified_ -- what's the matter, has that got too many syllables for you?

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... Stop it!  Oh, stop it!  Oooooh, stop it some moorrrreeeee!!!!!!!!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:19:16
EID:7f29 22303a60
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd716
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 6568f5c2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Jim Staal!

Monday January 13 1997 20:44, Jim Staal wrote to Glen Todd:

JS>> Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.

GT>> Why not -- it is.   Or are you as completely ignorant of their
GT>> theology as you are of so many other things?

JS> No. Typically wrong again, pagan boy. They hold the teachings of Joe
JS> Smith on a par with true devine scripture (The BIble). That puts them

Not according to them -- _OR_ according to your 'true devine scripture'.
(BTW, your spelling is as pitiful as are your theology and logic.)   According
to _you_, perhaps, but I take that opinion for what it's worth.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... * 4DOS 4.01 * BorgDOS 5.01: assimilate another (Y/y)?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  jesus needed...
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:22:28
EID:5306 22303ac0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd774
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 e55b4a3c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Jim Staal!

Monday January 13 1997 20:55, Jim Staal wrote to Glen Todd:

KD>> The model for our creator should not exclude half of the human beings
KD>> on earth.

GT>> Any religion which excludes the Goddess is half atheistic.

JS>  Evidence from the Bible (Holy scripture)?

Neither relevant, meaningful, nor necessary, as that applies to only _one_
middle eastern religion.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Viking raiders on the cyber sea. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  MORE TODDLINGS, NEWS
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:24:09
EID:aaaf 22303b00
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd7ca
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Roger Hunter!

Monday January 13 1997 16:16, Roger Hunter wrote to Glen Todd:

GT>> They aren't here to talk to each other, Rog.   They're here to see
GT>> first hand what Christians are really like, and to learn how to deal
GT>> with them appropriately.

RH> I realize that, but I usually see them talking to Gwenny instead.

And the idiots react like fish to the bait.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... 'Not diverting enough.' - Quark
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: One Book to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them (1:128/203)
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|From: Tiger Eyes
|To:   ROBERT CURRY
|Sub:  Native Americans
|Date: 14 Jan 97  16:45:09
EID:ff7a 222e85a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32dbb841
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1ec58a13
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
TE>> Not all of us are like you J.J.....I mean when your parents
TE>> dumped you off a the local orphanage, for being a freak of
TE>> humanity, they really didn't know that you would be so hurt
TE>> by it. I feel so sorry for your parents.

RC> On a scale of 1 to 10, this flame has a 0.03 rating.

RC> Don't you have any goofy pagan curses to fling about? That would
RC> be far more entertaining.

Who ever said I was a pagan?


... To reformat a CD-ROM use steel wool and heavy pressure.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.6)
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|From: Starfire
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Hello
|Date: 14 Jan 97  17:57:40
EID:a3fe 222e8f20
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32dbc96a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d8d6eb
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
DC> So, will the real Starfire and/or Gwenny the Pooh figure out what
DC> you/they are doing and get back to us and stop talking to yourself or
DC> selves.

We aren't real we are pigments of your imagination.


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Starfire


... Snow White:  "I wanted 7 inches, but not one at a time."
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The point at the Vulgar Unicorn <> Woodland Park, C (1:128/203.4)
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|From: Starfire
|To:   Becke Boyer
|Sub:  HOLYSMOKE CONVENTION
|Date: 14 Jan 97  17:59:16
EID:48b6 222e8f60
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32dbca34
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
S>> Or five if the Gwenny {my mama} decides to take me along as a body
S>> guard.{G}


BB> Your mom, need a bodyguard? From the image I get of her, hon,
BB> I don't think she needs one..(that's not an insult, believe me--I
BB> *know* your mother can take care of herself--she's one tough lady. =))

I know but that was just an excuse to get her to let me go with..

BB> BTW, welcome aboard.

BB> Becke

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
*Starfire*


... "Life is full of little surprises."  -Pandora
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.4)
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|From: Starfire
|To:   Doug Lee
|Sub:  Hello
|Date: 14 Jan 97  18:03:18
EID:6501 222e9060
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32dbcb04
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32d90069
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
St>> Heilsa, All!

St>> Hello people I have begain to post in hollysmoke.:}

DL>    Poor Girl.

St>> I am Gweny's girl

DL>   Oh. Poor, *poor* girl. ;>

I'm not poor my mother is very nice {once you get pasted the bared claws
and teeth}!!!!:)
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Starfire


... I survived a pot-luck portal. 
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.4)
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|From: Starfire
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Hello
|Date: 14 Jan 97  18:06:01
EID:763b 222e90c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32dbcb84
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db0408
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
AS>> Are you aware there is a superheroine of that same name? (DC's Teen
AS>> Titans, early eighties...)

St>> Actually I hadn't heard I got my name from the song Star Fire from
St>> Minus ten and Counting. Hows life in Florda?

AS>  Ahhh, I see. The comics Starfire was an alien, uninhibited, female,
and
AS>  beautiful.
AS>    As for life in Florida, I think you may have me confused with another.
AS>  Curry and the departed-from-the-echo Jesse Jones post from Florida,
I hail
AS>  from Nashville, Tennessee.

It'sall my mama's fault she told me you lived in florda!!Hows life in tennassee?
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Starfire


... Chemists don't die, they just stop reacting!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.4)
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|From: Gwenny The Pooh
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Hello
|Date: 14 Jan 97  18:56:18
EID:3f77 222e9700
MSGID: 1:128/203.4@fidonet.org 32dbd721
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db0408
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Starfire:

AS> As for life in Florida, I think you may have me confused with another.
AS> Curry and the departed-from-the-echo Jesse Jones post from Florida,
I
AS> hail from Nashville, Tennessee.

She claims it my fault.    You know, speaking of the dearly departed,
maybe we need a graveyard of all the folks who get run out.   That would
include Satanists.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Starfire


... Oxymoron: Convenience Stores
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.4)
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|From: Matthew Hunt
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Re: A Disciple for a Holyman
|Date: 12 Jan 97  01:39:06
EID:b9a3 222c0ce0
MSGID: 1:170/604.0 32dd9323
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Eval]
During wild sex, Don Martin heard All in another room say A Disciple for
a Holyman

DR> wish that I had known you a while back when I was by myself
DR> dealing with Pagans and the like on VirtualNet. :)

You have a problem with pagans?  And why is pagan capitolized? A
pagan is a person that isn't a follower of Christianity, Islam, or Buddha.
It's not a religion unto itself...

tWiST, twisting the mind away

... If you growl all day  you will feel dog tired.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
* Origin: After Midnight *918-756-5889* Okmulgee,OK. (1:170/604)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Bible inserts (supositories?)
|Date: 16 Jan 97  17:42:08
EID:e795 22308d40
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32de68c7
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137af7
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!

Martis dies January 14 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Steve Quarrella:

FR>>> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks and
fr>>> inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
fr>>> convention's hotels?  I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
sq>>> Shoot, that's amateurish.  How about getting a stack of Hustler
sq>>> magazines and putting their contents into the books in the pews
sq>>> of an organization that has done wrong to you?
FR>>   _MY_ suggestion is amateurish?!
sq>> Whose idea will piss off more people? :)
FR> _MY_ suggestion!

 Tcha!  As if!

I had lunch with a guy from work today, and he got started on the Mormons.
It was rather interesting putting all of his incorrect notions onto the
scrap heap.  How many evangelicals out there believe that the Book of Mormon
is some kind of "alternate Bible?"  Raise your hands.

--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia:  "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005

|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Mormon lunacy: End Times are upon us again!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  17:43:40
EID:69c5 22308d60
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32de69a8
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137af8
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!

Martis dies January 14 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Gwenny the Pooh:

FR> when "Cain" killed "Able."  I'm sure you also know that blacks aren't
FR> allowed to hold positions within their "priesthood..."  Anyone who is
part
FR> "mud people" isn't allowed to hold various positions within their
FR> priesthood.

You might want to double-check that.  If memory serves, that restriction
was removed in the 1970s, after some hue and cry.  Yes, I'll be more than
happy to go look that up if someone can't cough up the facts either way.
:)

FR> Their anal focus on geneology makes perfect sense if they want to exclude
FR> "mud people" when the government asks them to step in and take over.

I'm still laughing about all of the posthumously-baptized Roman Catholic
pontiffs, including St. Pius X. :)

--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia:  "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005

|From: Steve Quarrella
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  joke
|Date: 16 Jan 97  17:48:54
EID:420a 22308e00
MSGID: 1:124/9005 32de6a16
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b03
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Fredric!

Martis dies January 14 1997, Dixit Fredric Rice ad Matthew Hunt:

>> One, we stand to make $1 billion dollars.
>> Two, we may loose the Wonderbread account..."
FR> I don't get it.

"Give us this day our daily bread."

--- GoldED 2.51.A1026+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia:  "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 124/1 9000 9005 218/890
PATH: 124/9005

|From: Mark O'Neill
|To:   All
|Sub:  KISS
|Date: 16 Jan 97  17:48:55
EID:9d58 22308e00
MSGID: 3:640/375.1 32de978a
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
Hi all. With KISS touring Australia very shortly the local rag ran a story
on their upcoming concerts which included, to my amusement, quotes from
various church leaders at the time of their last concert here which was
in
1980. 

Taken from The (Brisbane) Courier Mail dated Thursday, January 9th 1997.
Original article by Sandra McLean.


And God created KISS too

KISS always provoked comment - from within and without the band -
particularly during their 1980 tour when Christian groups wanted them
banned. Here are some pearls from the past:



"A lot of Christians are dissapointed that god didn't act in some spectacular
way to stop the concert, but God rarely works in spectacular ways."

-Rev Don Shepherd, Baptist Union of Queensland, 1980

"O men of little faith. Do you really think Christianity is being threatened
by a pop group? Fancy thinking that KISS is an acronym for Knights In The
Service Of Satan. What it really stands for is Keep Our Inner Souls Safe."

-Letter to the Courier Mail, 1980

"There has been a mass abdication of our young people to these unworthy
heroes. Such things as face painting are always associated with people in
primitive tribal cultures."

-Reverend Doug McKenzie, 1980

/\\ark...

... "Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate."
--- Spot 1.3a #1526
* Origin: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. (3:640/375.1)
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PATH: 640/375 201 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Don Martin
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  The pitter-patter of
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:00:02
EID:083b 22305800
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
PID: BWPCB2 4.01 [Eval]
MSGID: 1:261/1137.0 32de0a21
Dan Ceppa said "THE PITTER-PATTER OF" to Don Martin,
adding:

DM> water, to be sure) and baptizes the pup. Should the woman
DM> manage to survive both that ordeal and the birth, she has an
DM> excellent chance of going septic from the squirt.

DC> And, when I thought I had heard it all...

DC> What's next?  Pre-conception baptisms for every egg the woman
DC> is about to release?

Don't let the Mormons hear about this one, or they'll be
making the whole world Mormon in an annual laying on of the
ova ritual in the Tabernacle.

... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)

--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: MetroNet - Columbia, Maryland (1:261/1137)


--- InterEcho 1.19
* Origin: * MetroNet * Baltimore, Maryland, USA (1:261/1137)
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PATH: 261/1137 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Becke Boyer
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  RE: *CR* CAT POOP COOKIES
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:37:12
EID:0ace 223074a0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 12 Jan 97 11:42am, DAN CEPPA wrote to BECKE BOYER:

->> On 11 Jan 97  10:21:18, Becke Boyer got back to Dan Ceppa

->>> Re: *CR* Cat Poop Cookies

BB>>  Reminds me of the recipe I have for Kitty Litter Cake..

DC> Remind me again near Halloween.  There are about a dozen of
DC> similarly disgusting appearance that pop up in the cooking
DC> echo.  I try to remember to forward them then, unless you
DC> need them sooner!

No need, Dan...if it's bizarre, I've probably got it. You run across some
weird stuff in the USENET cooking archives...;)

Becke

... Decadence with a redhead is its own reward!
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 59
* Silver Xpress V4.01

--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/722 211 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Becke Boyer
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  RE: CHEESE WHIZ ON TOAST
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:37:12
EID:f23d 223074a0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 12 Jan 97 11:56am, DAN CEPPA wrote to BECKE BOYER:

->> On 11 Jan 97  10:21:19, Becke Boyer got back to Fredric Rice

FR>> No, your masters are lying to you.  Most pregnacies spontaneously abort
FR>> even before the woman knows that she's preggers.

BB>> One out of three pregnancies, if I remember correctly...

DC> Approximately 2 out of 3, though it may be higher, as early than
DC> 2 month spontaneous abortions are difficult to tally.

I did a little more research into it...the number is around 40% (i.e. where
the egg gets fertilized, but doesn't attach itself). The number is a bit
higher in the weeks after that.

Becke

... You cannot produce a baby in one month by impregnating nine women.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 59
* Silver Xpress V4.01

--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/722 211 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Becke Boyer
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  RE: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:37:12
EID:5e5b 223074a0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 12 Jan 97 01:37pm, FREDRIC RICE wrote to BECKE BOYER:

FR>> I wonder if any of them realize that boycotts work both ways.
FR>> Christianic zealots which include a fish symbol probably don't even
FR>> consider the possibility that non-Christians give their shops a miss.

bb>> Reminds me of a used car dealership called "Car Circus" that
bb>> we have here in Harrisburg. The sign changes weekly--I believe
bb>> last weeks was "Jesus is Lord". ;)

FR>   Doubtless expressing Beta Male domination subservient behavior
FR> rhetoric is useful for convincing other pious Betas that the dealers
FR> are on equal social levels.

Paul and I actually stopped in there for shits and giggles when we were
out
shopping for a new car recently. Not only are they overpriced (every single
car on the lot is $7,995--mind you, all these cars are pieces of shit as
well), but he tried the hard fundie sell on us. Seemed kind of irked when
we
commented on where we could put the Darwin fish. ;)

Needless to say, they were glad to see us go. =)

Becke

... "IT FOUND ME!" -- Campus Crusade for Cthulhu.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 59
* Silver Xpress V4.01

--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/722 211 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Becke Boyer
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  RE: OUR DAILY BREAD
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:37:13
EID:8a96 223074a0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 13 Jan 97 01:14pm, DAN CEPPA wrote to BECKE BOYER:

->> On 12 Jan 97  07:11:09, Becke Boyer got back to All

BB>> Are my eyes deceiving me or did Mooth actually post something other
BB>> than canned spam? (Fresh spam, perhaps?)

DC> It appears that he only responds to messages based on spammings
DC> that are more than 3 months old and the responder lives in
DC> Australia.

DC> In any event, Rod Swift has earned the honor(?) of being the second
DC> person Mooth has sent a direct message to.

Who was the first?

Becke

... I'm Dyslexsic of Borg. Prepare to have your ass laminated.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 59
* Silver Xpress V4.01

--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/722 211 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jim Steingrobe
|Sub:  Am I getting through?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  12:22:56
EID:1fd6 223062c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32de1f72
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dd1c40
PID: GED3 2.5
15 Jan 97 13:04, Jim Steingrobe wrote to All:

JS>      WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet.

Wonderful. Are you planning on continuing your song-and-dance routine here?

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Goodbye
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:6491 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40bdb
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
EM>  RC> Let me know when you receive the Twelve Revelations from the GDO.
EM>  ML>  RC>
EM> 
EM>  ML>      "GDO"? You still waiting for him?
EM> 
EM>          Ah, yes. I have fond memories of a GDO one of the kids had
EM>          where I went to high school. It was a "Judge" model: 389, three
EM>          two-barrels, Muncie four-speed, posi rear end. Vroom!

I think Marty had the Chevrolet Camus Z28 in mind.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Naomi, sex at noon taxes, I moan.

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   David Ragland
|Sub:  ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:8b4d 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40bdc
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
DR>           So many of our kindred just don't get into the spirit of
DR>      things in areas like this for some reason.  I don't know if it's
DR>      because they feel that all their efforts are "pearls before swine"
DR>      or if they just don't see the value of planting the seeds that
we
DR>      plant in spite of that the unbelievers think.  What do you think?

DR>      I hope this new year is a blessed one for you thus far brother
and
DR>      wish you all the best.

Welcome brother.  That "pearls before swine" comment endears
you to me already.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   David Ragland
|Sub:  Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:2928 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40bdd
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
DR>      This claim is not so difficult to counter.  Let's say for discussion's
DR> sake that man's innate psychic powers do on occasion heal him.  Does
this
DR> disprove God?  No.  If the God that created man did so with this ability
as
DR> component placed therein, just like the ability to learn how to fix
a
DR> sick/damaged body, the healing is still of God in that the ability itself
i
DR> a gift from Him.  This same psychic ability, providing it does exist,
did n
DR> create man so it cannot used to deny the existence of the Creator even
if i
DR> does have the power to heal a person.

And the credit doesn't go to the surgeon who rescues a dying
patient.  It goes to God for giving that surgeon skilled
hands.  Nor does the credit go to the teacher who inspires
her students.  It goes to God for giving her that special
gift.  And what about the plumber who dislodges that pesky
turd from your toilet?  Again, the credit is God's.

Man should not feel pride for any of his accomplishments,
for indeed, the glory is God's.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Evil I did dwell; lewd did I live.

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   David Ragland
|Sub:  MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:5956 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40bde
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
DR>      Does this mean that she will not be saddened if Roger should not
be
DR> there with her in God's glorious presence?  No.  Even God Himself is
grieve
DR> at man's choice to reject Him and thus be damned by his own repudiative
DR> nature.  That is not to say that her compassion based twinges, no matter
ho
DR> strong, will negate any chance of her enjoying Heaven though.  If they
coul
DR> then Heaven isn't all that The Word says it is, right?

The answer to this is quite simple.  When she purchases her
ticket in the bleachers (from which the saints revel in the
agony of the damned), she merely requests a section that
does not include a view of her tormented husband.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Ah, Satan sees Natasha.

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  adaption
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:57b5 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40bdf
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
ML>  AS> Well, let's see now. The Earth has been in existence for roughly

ML>  AS> five billion years, life only (more or less) a billion.
ML>
ML>      WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
ML> 
ML>      Al, did I tell you that you're wrong?
ML> 
ML>      The age of the Earth is 4.68 BY (5 BY is close enough), BUT
ML>      life on Earth has been around for over 3.5 BY (1 BY is NOT
ML>      close enough). Bioinformational macromolecules (prokaryotes)
ML>      are amply evidenced in the Archean; indeed, they are
ML>      sufficiently advanced that although so far unfound, precursor
ML>      preprokaryotes probably arose some 3.8-4BYA.

I informed Al that life has been around for 3.5-4.0 billion
years some time ago.  I'm beginning to suspect that our
efforts go in one aural orifice and out the other.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Eros? Sidney, my end is sore!

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Carl Sagan
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:d404 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40be0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
ML>  DC> Nope, as I made the whole thing up about Styx and his drums 
ML>  DC> being off-topic!  
ML> 
ML>      G'wan...beat it.

I fail to snare the cymbalism here.

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Last egg gets Al.

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rob Burcham
|To:   Robert Curry
|Sub:  symbolism
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:52:28
EID:2c08 222f8e80
TID: FMail/Win32 1.22
MSGID: 1:280/76.0 15d40be1
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 526 days
RC>  GTP> You told us to stop her from eating Twinkies (there's that
RC>  GTP> phallic symbol you adore so much).
RC> 
RC> A Twinkie is a phallic symbol? How about a Little Debbie's snack cake?

If God didn't intend for man to eat pussy, why did he make
it look like a taco? -Bette Midler

-!-
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Naomi, sex at noon taxes, I moan.

-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (816) 361-7670 (1:280/76)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 280/76 1 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Josef Berg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:58:58
EID:de22 22304740
MSGID: 1:342/1.2 32ddee30
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbbb52
Good Morning, Jan!

Monday January 13 1997 07:07, Jan deBoer wrote to Dan Ceppa:

RS>> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan.  :) :)

Jd> Where do you get it?...I've tried EVERY Italian grocery store
Jd> around here, and NONE of them carry it!

Jd> Itsa gooda cheesa!

...Let's help....deBoer....(de)gouda.....That might help you find it...:)

The Avatar


--- GoldED 2.42.G0614

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
* Origin: The Dream Weaver Point, Alberta (1:342/1.2)
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PATH: 342/1 5010 61 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Josef Berg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  OMX/BW
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:02:54
EID:b0b7 22304840
MSGID: 1:342/1.2 32ddef0d
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbbb55
Good Morning, Jan!

Tuesday January 14 1997 09:29, Jan deBoer wrote to Dan Ceppa:

Jd> No, I was looking for something that could handle both .qwk and
Jd> bluewave formatted packets. Appreciate the info!

...Try the BlueWave mail reading program.

Josef


--- GoldED 2.42.G0614

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
* Origin: GrahamBerg Livestock, Alberta, Canada (1:342/1.2)
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|From: Barry Griefer
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Gay Marriage?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  18:22:55
EID:93e3 223092c0
MSGID: 1:396/45.11 7951667a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32d71a32
Hello Rod!

On (11 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Barry Griefer...

RS> On 22-10-96 at 21:55, BARRY GRIEFER wrote to ALL:

BG> The laws are obviously on Christian belief.  So what does
BG> the state have to get into it for?  Hetero marriage, that
BG> is.

RS> Marriage is a secular institution under the law, not a religious one.

Legally, you are absolutely correct.  But, do you just wipe
the religious origins of the law and the reasons and
justifications for the state meddling in the private
relationship between two people.  

Better all laws relating to marriage be wiped off the books.

RS> We don't want "roughly the same".  We want "the same".

And, I would say to you that a longterm monogamous gay
relationship is only "roughly the same" as marriage.

BG> Benefits, inheritance, insurance, tax deductions?

RS> Survivorship, legal-next-of-kin, immigration.

All but immigration can be dealt with, without benefit of
government meddling.  I'm not sure there is any compelling
reason for government to accord relatives of immigrants any
special treatment, humanitarian reasons excepted.  Nobody is
compelled to come to this country.  There's probably plenty
of single potential immigrants to meet our needs.

... "You are trapped in that bright moment where you learned your doom."

--- PPoint 2.02
* Origin: Barry's Point System (1:396/45.11)
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PATH: 396/45 2 1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Jan 97  19:15:44
EID:81a8 222f99e0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 778cc7d1
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32d8bb8c
Bilabial Fricatives on 12 Jan 97, of Rod Swift/George Mooth, thus:

RS> RS>Yep, there's a word for that.  Immutability.

GM>  You seem to have not noticed the question mark.  But that's how you
GM> folks twist things isn't it?

RS> Arrrrgh!  George Mooth SPEAKS!  I made him speak!  Woooowooowoooo!
RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?

Well, you've certainly earned a commission from the underwear
industry; many readers soiled their shorts at this lightning-
bolt from a clear blue sky.

Better check your mitts for stigmata.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  idle
|Date: 15 Jan 97  19:27:43
EID:49c1 222f9b60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9aab1beb
Hmmm.

Holysmoke appears to have become a very target-poor environment
of late.

Shouldst I go forth and recruit us some game to pot at?

The keyboard twitcheth mightily with carnal yearnings for the
accustomed daily fundy predation. But yea, there are none, save 
the feeble and sickly. The sanctimonious Wiens, the grandiose
yet ludicrous Prewett, the unbelievably prolific Appletonian
Plagiarist, the tender, pubescent buttpimple satanists Abaddon
and Ravenwood, they are all no more to be seen.

O god of atheism, I beseech thee:

Send more paramedics!

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  blast
|Date: 15 Jan 97  22:08:11
EID:e818 222fb100
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73c3798b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6d81e8d2
On Jan 15 01:10 97, Katherine Wintersnight of 1:381/123@fidonet.org wrote:

KW> And if you don't play it out in public, and you make a 
KW> mystery of things--they will still dissect and discuss it.  
KW> Remember all the attempts to pull your pants down?


You mean they wanted to pull my pants down to DISSECT me?
Oh my...

Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Mars
|Date: 15 Jan 97  22:09:54
EID:482f 222fb120
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73c37c20
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32dc3f38
On Jan 15 02:20 97, David Worrell of 1:123/67.7 wrote:

GP>> BTW, I have declared the Todds the winner,

DW> Does this remind you of a certain Middle Eastern head of 
DW> state?

I'm waiting for them to quote Veliskovsky.

Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 15 Jan 97  22:14:56
EID:78a5 222fb1c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73c38c34
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07137b0b
On Jan 14 20:48 97, Fredric Rice of 1:218/890@FidoNet wrote:

FR> Isn't Walmart one of the most oppressive towards homosexuals?  
FR> Er, known homosexuals, I mean.  Don't they impose lie detector 
FR> tests and if one refuses one doesn't get a job?

I may very well be mistaken (it has happened once or twice before),
but I seem to recall that it is no longer legal to make a polygraph
a prerequisite for employment. Of course, they can always use some 
other method to "profile" applicants.

Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 2000 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Brian Shreve
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 16 Jan 97  17:48:02
EID:1a18 22308e00
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32debe32
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32dda9c4
1st, I enjoyed your response, 
2nd, I wish you hadn't of stated your age, it awoke the "he's wet behind
years" in me. I hate that part of me. (I be working on correcting
that, slow but sure)
2nd part 2
At your age, I was in the nationals, and other competitions
in debate. When folks said I was wet behind the ears, it 
ticked me off. I won many a trophy and ribbons and plaques
and pat on the backs, I wasn't stupid then, but yeah, I guess
I was a little wet behind the years, ONLY cuz I hadn't the
experiance (uh, of older and wiser men and women?)...
You aint stupid either, but...a bit wet behind the ears. (grin)

Anyways, ya was caught saying:

JF> attacker.  Abortion is different, however - while 
JF> I'm not trying to detach from abortion (you ARE 

I think what I said went over your head....re-read what I said.

JF>   Thank you.

Your welcome.

JF>   Not quite sure what you mean here by entitlements.  Sorry!  :-)

Entitlements = Social Security, Social Security Retirement, Social Security
Disibility, Supplemental Security Income (in order as
above, to make it short... SS, SSR, SSD, SSI) and Medicaid programs.
Some folks concider the above as WELFARE, I don't, I concider them
entitlements, I don't concider welfare as being an entitlement. I do
however concider both concepts, entitlements & welfare as one huge
albatros on society and the recipient. (you just would not believe
the CRAP one has to go through to obtain the above mentioned entitlement
programs, and to continue obtaining them) 

(anyone wanting to ask what i concider to be "welfare", i couldn't
answer them definitively, I'm too involved in it; am too close to it
to perhaps see it in another light)

BS> Ditto with the fired employee of some 
BS> business, going into his or her

JF>   Ah, Disgruntled Postal Worker Syndrome. :-)  I 

Your choice of answer...  #1 or #2 . . .

1) yas suh yas suh yas suh
or
2) didn't go over his head at all, he (you) got it!


--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time BBS (1:106/113)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Our Daily Modest Proposal
|Date: 16 Jan 97  19:30:20
EID:fd40 22309bc0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73bab195
MSGID: 1:229/622 32de82f5
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of J.J. Hitt to All:

JH> On Jan 13 21:15 97, Rob Burcham of 1:280/76 wrote:

GM>>                        IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE?

RB>> Mooth speaks!!!  All hail Mr Swift as the man who moved 
RB>> Mooth!

JH>  Has anyone checked the kludge lines to make sure this wasn't a
JH>  forgery? (I would myself, but deleted the original message a
JH>  couple days before the possibility of fraud was even mentioned.)

@PATH: 2285/100 3615/50

If that's his normal bbs it went straight to Planet Connect. 

JH> ALSO: the original Live Mooth message contained an email address. If
JH> anyone still has that message PLEASE POST THAT ADDRESS!

gmooth@sprynet.com

JH>  I propose that from this time forward every user who feels so
JH>  inclined should return each and every Daily Bread posting to that 
JH> address.

It would only be the "good thing" to return the favors and share.

--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To:   Jim Stall
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:30:47
EID:2d90 2230abc0
MSGID: 1:106/113 73d099c3
JS> 2 Tim 3:16  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Hello fellow heathen! 

The biggest rebuke I know of, was Jesus (hay zeus) saying those
without any sin in their life may throw the first stone.

Have you thrown the stone?

JS> And as the Holy Spirit confirms it to my heart, I need no
JS> further 'evidence'.

Doubtful that you know an evil spirit from a holy spirit.

Brian


--- msgedsq 2.1a
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time --- 713-953-9991 (1:106/113)
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To:   Jim Stall
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 16 Jan 97  22:03:44
EID:cbe6 2230b060
MSGID: 1:106/113 73d0bd27
JS> So typical of 'heathens', Domino. I'll just bet if you are

--- Squish v1.01
* Origin: None (1:106/113)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Laurie Appleton
|Sub:  Smart lawyers, Bad scien
|Date: 12 Jan 97  17:58:00
EID:85a0 222c8f40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32d8b5a8
On 19-11-96 at 08:51, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER:

LA>   So it is obvious that one little old lone Federal Judge in
LA> Arkansas was thoroughly mislead by the smart lawyers of the
LA> ACLU on that point and his judgement was a total blunder
LA> even if he was not already biased! Effective tactics but
LA> lousy science and worse ethics.

One Federal Judge, three appeals judges, and seven supremes all
claimed creationism was religious indoctrination.

The only two who disagreed were Scalia and Rehnquist (what???
Dear ol' Clarence's puppetstring was broken :) that day? )

Rod "... Are you still admitting that the Creationists have dumb
lawyers, and that your favourite lawyer Wendell Bird is one of
those dumb lawyers?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Don't get stuck in a closet.  Wear yourself out.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Grayhawk
|Sub:  Legislating Morality
|Date: 12 Jan 97  19:01:02
EID:8e74 222c9820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32d8c46e
On 13-11-96 at 21:33, GRAYHAWK wrote to KEN WIENS:

GR> KW->DW>Clinton did not make it illegal to marry gays - he just left
GR> KW->DW>the issue the states. The law states that the Federal
GR> KW->DW>government will not recognize such marriages, not that
GR> KW->DW>such marriages are illegal.
GR> KW->   You can't very easily make a legal contract that is
GR> KW->   not recognized by the Government, now can you?
GR> KW->   Sounds pretty illegal to me.

GR> There are many issues that are left to the states, knucklehead.  All
GR> that happened when this bill was vetoed was that it was decided to leave
GR> the decision to the individual states (where, in all actuality, it does
GR> belong, as stated in the Constitution).

Actually, a correction for you.  The bill was not vetoed, and the
bill allows a state to IGNORE the public acts of another
(marriage) in a particular marriage circumstance.

You see, the states are left up to deciding their own individual
local state laws, but they are federally compelled under the US
constitution to recognise marriages of another state.

The bill the Republicans passed, and Clinton signed, breaches
that constitutionally-enforced full-faith-and-credit requirement
upon the states.

Rod "...got that?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Abaddon
|Sub:  Nick is full of shit!!
|Date: 13 Jan 97  20:59:04
EID:4ff9 222da760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3198
On 18-11-96 at 11:26, ABADDON wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG:

AB> Shemhamforash!

Yes, I'd like some-ham-for-us, and some eggs and a nice piece of
toast, and some orange juice.

That's to go!

Rod "...Vrrroom... Thank you for visiting McSatan's!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:03:06
EID:ea90 222da860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da328a
On 07-11-96 at 11:03, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

The answer:

GM>                    HALF-BAKED CHRISTIANS

Oooh... This is a jeopardy question!

What you get when George Mooth actually opens his mouth for the
first time into the echo..?

GM>                Ephraim is a cake unturned....  [Hosea 7:8]

The Ephraim tribe were cake boys! :) *snicker*

GM>       God is never soft on sin.

But he's always soft when it comes to sex.  That's why he's had
such difficulty coming again.

GM>                 GOD'S GRACE IS NOT A LICENSE
GM>                    TO LIVE AS YOU PLEASE.

Bullshit.  Jesus died for our sins, so LET'S NOT DISAPPOINT HIM!
:)

Rod "...I love you George!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * A closed mouth gathers no feet.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:05:08
EID:ea90 222da8a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3304
On 09-11-96 at 11:39, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                    LOOKING FOR LOOPHOLES

What Georgie-girl Mooth uses to justify his Salad-Bar-style
choose-your-own-salvation Christianity.

You worship the Bible as if it were a choose-your-own-adventure
kids' story book, Moothy!

GM>           THE BIBLE'S PURPOSE IS TO LIGHT OUR WAY,
GM>                   NOT TO COVER OUR TRACKS.

So why is the bible a lot like a lamppole?  In the past it was
used for illumination, but now it's only used for someone who is
spineless to lean against for support.

Rod "...you are spineless, George.  I love you!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * God is a Vorlon.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:06:10
EID:ea90 222da8c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3342
On 09-11-96 at 11:48, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                      TIME AND ETERNITY

Something you will sadly find out when your life is snuffed out
and you enter the eternal nothing.

GM>               TO AVOID BEING LOST IN ETERNITY,
GM>                   RECEIVE CHRIST IN TIME.

To avoid being lost in eternity, live life now and make sure your
name endures as a memorable one for years to come!

Rod "...I love you George!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Jesus saves!  Krishna invests!  Cthulhu forcloses!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:09:12
EID:ea90 222da920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da33f8
On 10-11-96 at 11:38, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                    LEARNING FROM MISTAKES

I thought holier-than-thou shithead Christians never claimed
responsibility for their mistakes -- they merely scapegoat
someone for their errors!

GM>                  All Scripture is given by
GM>                  inspiration of God, and
GM>                  is profitable.
GM>                  -2 Tim. 3:16

It certainly is profitable.  Look at all that money preachers
make by bashing up minorities like gays, or other religious
groups, or women, or people of different races...

GM>             TO THE WISE, THE WORD IS SUFFICIENT.

To the wise, the WORD is a CASH COW.
That's all Christianity is, a moneymaking scam.  Isn't it?

Rod "...I love you George!" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:10:14
EID:ea90 222da940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3436
On 11-11-96 at 11:19, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                    A DAD WHO DIDN'T QUIT

Your dad should have.  Something called coitus interruptus.

GM>           THE BEST FATHERS NOT ONLY GIVE US LIFE -
GM>               THEY ALSO TEACH US HOW TO LIVE.

The best fathers are responsible with their desires and don't
seek to fuck humanity out if its existence by overpopulating this
planet!

Rod "...I still love you George, and you can repent.  Be a gay
and never have to think about *needing* to reproduce again!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:11:16
EID:ea90 222da960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3474
On 12-11-96 at 11:51, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                     THE PURPOSE OF PAIN

... is a torture from God.

GM>       If you're going through a painful time, God's purpose
GM>     may be to make you more spiritually fruitful.

That's bullshit.  What about all those people suffering because
your sick and cruel God won't take them out of their terminal
diseases -- yet he kills of babies every day who seem nothing but
healthy.

GM>           PROBLEMS ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PROGRESS.

Problems are opportunities for the Christian Filth to rape the
minds of helpless, hopeless people....

...and empty their wallets.

Rod "...But I love you, George, because you can repent!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * The real world is a special case.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:16:18
EID:ea90 222daa00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da35a2
On 13-11-96 at 10:55, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                     FIGHT FEAR WITH FEAR

Christians fight decent people with fear all the time.  It is
nice to know that you admit that you terrorise and terrify the
weak, the hopeless, the feeble, and most importantly our CHILDREN.

You fundamentalist, unloving Christians are *SICK FUCKS* and
should be ashamed of yourselves!

GM>       Are you looking for security in a world where
GM>     frightening situations and unsettling circumstances
GM>     abound?  There is no better way to find it than to live
GM>     each day with a healthy fear of God...
GM>     -Martin R. De Haan II

And here's an example of you sick fucks wanting to rape the minds
of hurting, innocent people.  How *bizarre* that you only try to
convert *NOT* the intelligent and well-to-do, but victims.

GM>           THOSE WHO FEAR GOD MOST FEAR MEN LEAST.

Bull shit.  You God types *fear* men.  You fear gays, you fear
atheists, you fear humanists, you fear secularism, you fear
liberal ideology, you fear everything.

Because you whipping up this fear earns you money from your
deluded faithful.

If Christian filth like you did *NOT* fear men, you'd not care
about gays getting married, or equality for all, or prayer being
kept as an individual choice rather than mandated in the
classroom, or about declining social standards....

... but they earn you money, and to believe in your God is to
accept these irrational fears.

Rod "...I love you George.  There's still hope for you though!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:21:20
EID:ea90 222daaa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da36d0
On 14-11-96 at 11:42, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                 HOW WILL YOU BE REMEMBERED?

I'll be remembered as the first person to EVER make you actually
respond to a post with your own sentience, as opposed to the
sentience that you copy these wonderful tracts of bullshit from.

GM>         LIVING FOR THE LORD LEAVES A LASTING LEGACY.

Yes, I agree.
* Utter destruction of unique traditional religions,
cultures, practices and peoples in the "civilising
missions" of the past in Africa
* The same religious destruction today in the 10-40 Zone.
* Religiously-inspired hatred and bigotry for other humans.
* A number of really good wars.
* Terrorism in the British Isles.
* Hundreds of thousands of people dead in crusades and
witch burnings.
* Hitler's Christianity and the inspiration to knock
off a few million Jews here or there in the name
of biblical purity
* The dozens of right-wing Christian Identity Movement
groups around the world
* The Klan -- need I say more.
* and of course the billions of lives fucked up in the
name of your God.

All the above has been done in the name of your God, or your
religion, or both.  You may protest now that they aren't "true
Christians".  But they were doing their best to live a life "for
the LORD"

Don't you see the legacy of misery?

Rod "...Praise Jesus for the misery Mooth.  I still love you" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:24:22
EID:ea90 222dab00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3786
On 16-11-96 at 11:08, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                    THE BOOK YOU MUST READ

The book I'd suggest you read can be your choice, probably from a
list of suitable texts from a comparative religion and ethics
course.

The sooner you see that your God is not a pre-requisite for
living a good life, the better.

GM>             THE BOOKS THAT MEN MAKE ARE NOTHING
GM>             COMPARED TO THE BOOK THAT MAKES MEN.

The book that makes men?  Would that be the schematics of Dr
Noonien Soong, for the Data-series of android technology?

Rod "...praise Jean Luc, and pass the Riker!" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * Easter is cancelled this year.  They've found the body.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:26:24
EID:ea90 222dab40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3800
On 17-11-96 at 13:51, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                    NURSERY RHYME SCHOLARS

You've finally decided to do a critique on the Institute for
Creation Research's "scholars"?

GM>       Even though children can understand the Bible's basic
GM>     truths, it is no simple book.

So why are the majority of people who turn to fundie preaching
simpletons?

Wouldn't that be the blind leading the blind?

GM>       The Bible is like the ocean.  You can wade in it, feed
GM>     from it, live on it - or drown in it.

I can personally tell you that I've never been threatened with a
lack of oxygen by mere paper.

GM>        THE BIBLE IS SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR A CHILD TO READ
GM>            AND TOO DEEP FOR A SCHOLAR TO MASTER.

That's because all the biblical "scholars" never graduate from
their childish minds, eh?

Rod "...I love you, and we can get you hooked on phonics to help
you get into grade school, George" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Windows isn't crippleware.  It's functionally challenged.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   All
|Sub:  Watch the fundies SPIN!
|Date: 13 Jan 97  21:38:26
EID:6556 222dacc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da3ad2
On 17-11-96 at 02:53, ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL:

RC> In 1924, the American Flag Conference finalized some changes:

RC>     I pledge allegiance to the flag
RC>        Of the United States of America,
RC>     And to the republic for which it stands,
RC>        One nation, indivisible,
RC>     With liberty and justice for all.

RC> Only in 1954 -- after lobbying by the Knights of Columbus --
RC> did Congress add religious INSANITY to the pledge:

[snip to show changed line only]
RC>        One nation, under god, indivisible,

RC> Then there's the unofficial 1992 addendum by George Bush:
RC>     ...except for atheists, who are neither patriots nor citizens.

But of course :)

RC> Finally, we have the following improved version by cartoonist
RC> Matt Groening. This is the best version, and the one I'm teaching
RC> to my godchildren:

RC>     I plead alliance to the flakes
RC>        Of the untitled snakes of a merry cow,
RC>     And to the Republicans for which they scam,
RC>        One nacho, underpants, indigestible,
RC>     With licorice and jugs of wine for owls.


RC> Actually, I'm not too sure about the word "indigestible" there,
RC> but even if it turns out to be a near miss, I think it works
RC> well enough.

I have Groening's OTHER one, which is MUCH more profound, and
will put the good children on a path to libertarianism quicker
than you can say "geez, I don't care what the gay people do in
their car mufflers".  I've also attached some other wonderful
quotes that might spin some of the salad-bar Christian types:

"I pledge allegiance to and wrap myself in the flag of the
United States Against Anything Un-American and to the
Republicans for which it stands, two nations, under Jesus,
rich against poor, with curtailed liberty and justice for all
except blacks, homosexuals, women who want abortions,
Communists, welfare queens, treehuggers, feminazis, illegal
immigrants, children of illegal immigrants, and you if you
don't watch your step."
-- From 'Life In Hell' by Matt Groening, 16 Dec 1994.

"Jesse Helms, Phil Gramm, Fred Phelps...  Ever get the
impression there's just not enough chlorine in the gene pool?"
-- from the Internet

"Too many people use the Bible the way a drunk uses a lamp post
-- for support rather than illumination."
-- Reverend William Sloane Coffin.

"An engineering professor is treating her husband, a loan
officer, to dinner for finally giving in to her pleas to shave
off the scraggly beard he grew on vacation.  His favorite
restaurant is a casual place where they both feel comfortable
in slacks and cotton/polyester-blend golf shirts.  But, as
always, she wears the gold and pearl pendant he gave her the day
her divorce decree was final.  They're laughing over their menus
because they know he always ends up diving into a giant plate of
ribs but she won't be talked into anything more fattening than
shrimp."
"Quiz: How many biblical prohibitions are they violating?  Well,
wives are supposed to be 'submissive' to their husbands (I Peter
3:1).  And all women are forbidden to teach men (I Timothy 2:12),
wear gold or pearls (I Timothy 2:9) or dress in clothing that
'pertains to a man' (Deuteronomy 22:5).  Shellfish and pork are
definitely out (Leviticus 11:7, 10) as are usury (Deuteronomy
23:19), shaving (Leviticus 19:27) and clothes of more than one
fabric (Leviticus 19:19).  And since the Bible rarely recognizes
divorce, they're committing adultery, which carries the rather
harsh penalty of death by stoning (Deuteronomy 22:22)."
"So why are they having such a good time?  Probably because they
wouldn't think of worrying about rules that seem absurd,
anachronistic or -- at best -- unrealistic.  Yet this same
modern-day couple could easily be among the millions of Americans
who never hesitate to lean on the Bible to justify their own
anti-gay attitudes."
-- From 'And Say Hi To Joyce' by lesbian columnist Deb Price.

These and many "FIGHT THE RIGHT" links can be found at my web
page at:
http://www.nether.net/~rod/html/sub/ftr.html

Rod "...praise jeeezus!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  Smart lawyers, Bad scien
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:10:28
EID:eb36 222db140
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4254
On 21-11-96 at 15:38, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to LAURIE APPLETON:

KS> You are as appetizing as the syphilitic afterbirth of a drunken
KS> gangfuck.

Yummy! :)

Rod "...placenta burgers are great!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Time flies when you don't know what you're doing.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Darkness
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:32:30
EID:5bb3 222db400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da477e
On 20-11-96 at 02:16, DAVID WORRELL wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG:

DW> Did you ever see _Pulp Fiction_?

I saw it once.  The scene with the leather sex reminds me of what
may happen to our milkcrated one at the leather biker bar :) :)

Rod "...but I've got a pure mind.  I don't think these things ;)" Swift
:)

* SLMR 2.1 * He's your God, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Robert Burke
|Sub:  Darkness
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:34:32
EID:d5a0 222db440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da47f8
On 22-11-96 at 01:10, ROBERT BURKE wrote to DON MARTIN:

RB> Wrong. Love is the strongest weapon of a Christian.

Which is why you fight the loving relationships that gays have,
right?

Rod "...yep, you're a real moron Christian" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Windows isn't crippleware.  It's functionally challenged.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Laurie Appleton
|Sub:  Erosion destroys fossils
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:41:34
EID:fe95 222db520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da499e
On 22-11-96 at 14:48, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to DAVE HAMILTON:

LA> Hi Dave,
LA>  (Re: yours of 24-Oct-1996, "Erosion destroys fossils.")

LA> DH> About a message of Laurie Appleton to Jeff Marchizi:

LA>  LA>     "At the present rate of erosion, which is reasonably well
LA>  LA>  known, the continents would be worn down to sea level in a
LA>  LA>  small fraction of the time that has elapsed since life on the
LA>  LA>  lands began."
LA>  LA>  (Encyclopedia Britannica, (1963), Vol. 10, p. 157c)

LA> DH> What does the 1996 version say?

LA>    I don't have that, but is there any reason to believe
LA> that the RATE of erosion of continents has changed
LA> significantly since then?

Can you tell me that the above paragraph that you quote has
paragraphs before and after it describing the counteractive
geological processes which counteract erosion and hence *don't*
leave the earth a flat, eroded landscape?

Rod "...Did you honestly expect to get away with this one,
Laurie?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.

* SLMR 2.1 * Now where's the "Bigot" sign for Laurie Appleton's back?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Robert Burke
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:44:36
EID:8703 222db580
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4a54
On 22-11-96 at 01:06, ROBERT BURKE wrote to DAVID WORRELL:

RB> What is wrong with Pascal's wager?

It is founded on circular logic for a start, and secondly is
argumentum ad ignoratum.

RB> You really need to take a vallium, and learn to respect peoples
RB> beliefs. Or should we start burning them in ovens.

Is that your plans for the atheists, gays, etc?

Rod "...I love you Robbie, yes I do, broiled, baked or in a
stew!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Let's support Less Characters sent in Echoes Year 1997!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  False christian scum
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:47:38
EID:e8a1 222db5e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4b0a
On 22-11-96 at 22:37, ED MILLS wrote to DON MARTIN:

EM>  RB> Siena
EM>  RB> Macerata
EM>  RB> Bologna
EM>      ^^^^^^^
EM>  RB> Amsterdam
EM>  RB> Zaragoza
EM>  RB> Turin

EM>          The operative word seems to be nestled in there, snug as a
EM>          bug in a rug, yes?  :)

Oh, baloney, Ed!

Rod "...ROFL" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Betazoids FYJE not ROFL.  [Feel your joke empathically.]

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Robert Burke
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:50:40
EID:8703 222db640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4bc0
On 23-11-96 at 02:49, ROBERT BURKE wrote to RICHARD SMITH:

RB> RS>  You didn't say that God existed?  Do we have to scroll back?

RB> I BELIEVE God exists. I have already submitted that it is not proven.

Oh good.  Then you'll kindly refrain from preaching to the
unconvinceable?

RB> Ok.. While praying God reveals to me that I should get up and cook the
RB> stuff. I obey. Say grace and eat. You have dinner first, but Mine
RB> tastes better. Let me ask you this. How did you know that macaroni and
RB> cheese was in the box before you opened it?

It said so because it was on the box, and it was made by Kraft,
and it was the cute animaniacs-shaped pasta.

But of course, we can always open the box and find out.  We can
PROVE macaroni and cheese.  Didn't you state above that you can't
prove God???

Rod "...how do you know that the box of Cap'n Crunch Godbits(tm)
actually has God inside?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Brain over.  Insert coin.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Feeble human cattle
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:51:42
EID:8a8d 222db660
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4bfe
On 22-11-96 at 21:38, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to DAVID RICE:

MG> MG>> And the cowgirls here will expect more than a leer.
MG>  DR> So I'll bring $10.00

MG> No need.  This is Texas where the men are horny and the women are horny.

MG> Sheep jokes not allowed.

What about the beer, queer, or steer inference?

Rod "...hehehe" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Borg Express...  Don't be assimilated without it!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Leonard Bernier
|Sub:  Gen. 3:15 / Gal. 4:4   N
|Date: 13 Jan 97  22:54:44
EID:21fc 222db6c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4cb4
On 21-11-96 at 14:39, LEONARD BERNIER wrote to ALL:

LB> FULFILLMENT:
LB> But when the time has fully came, God sent his Son, born under law.

LB> The Messiah's firth coming was from a mother's womb, as is the case
with
LB> everyone who is born. What is interesting in the passages above is that
LB> the woman is emphasized,not the man. That is because Jesus was concived
LB> not through the joining of a man and woman but b=4(+Lu-
LB> ++2quD{P=aU?0Gg++o+O(+X>$ +

Note that God strikes down their modems at hugely hilarious
points in the sentence...

... is this Al's evidence of "chaos in disorder" that makes the
universe "created"? :)

Rod "...hehehe, just pulling your leggy, Ally!" Swifty :)

* SLMR 2.1 * An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Tyler Tilson
|Sub:  other religion
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:06:46
EID:c9df 222db8c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4f86
On 19-11-96 at 17:54, TYLER TILSON wrote to SEAN MCCULLOUGH:

TT> i am just curious right now. i have a friend who practices black magic
TT> but im not too into all the "nasty" stuff that they say you have to
do.
TT> As of right now i am interested in becoming a White Witch. but im not
TT> too sure about where to start.

Take a bath in 1-1-1-trichloroethane :)  It'll get you all white :)

Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the Liquid Paper(tm)" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Borg Express...  Don't be assimilated without it!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  other religion
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:07:48
EID:cee8 222db8e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da4fc4
On 22-11-96 at 01:44, DAVID WORRELL wrote to TYLER TILSON:

DW>  TT> As of right now i am interested in becoming a White Witch. but
im
DW>  TT> not too sure about where to start.

DW> Try a neurosurgeon. I hear they're doing wonderful things
DW> with transplants these days.

I hear Michael Jackson's plastic surgery does a great white-wash
now :)

Rod "...praise jesus, and pass the scalpel!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * A closed mouth gathers no feet.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Sandy Hooper
|Sub:  Your soul....b
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:26:50
EID:168e 222dbb40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da543a
On 22-11-96 at 22:22, SANDY HOOPER wrote to ALL:

SH>  What was the first public miracle Moses did in the Old Testament?

He screwed you silly with his magical Mosaic Wand?

SH>  He  turned water into blood.  What about the first public miracle
SH>  performed in the New Testament?  Jesus turning the water into wine.
SH>  What is wine a type of?  Wine is a type of blood.

No.  Wine is the product of grapes... Or are you suggesting when
the Red Cross has a blood shortage, we should crush up some
grapes for some plasma?

SH>  To further complicate matters, especially for the Roman Catholics,
there is
SH>  one thing forbidden to eat throughout the whole Bible.  It's  BLOOD.

Well isn't that confusing, being wine and all!

SH>  Something messed Eve up.

Did she have the same parents as you do?  You're about as
screwed up!

SH>  No man is made in the image of God until he is born again!

Why would a deity insist on a method of salvation which could
incur a *second* chance at having a birth defect?

I can't believe you post this shit, Sandy.  You're a moron.

Rod "...but I love you!" Swift ;)

* SLMR 2.1 * Christians wanted.  Apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Sandy Hooper
|Sub:  Your soul....a
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:28:52
EID:17ce 222dbb80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da54b4
On 22-11-96 at 22:22, SANDY HOOPER wrote to ALL:

SH>  Any person who is not born again, has a "dead spirit" in him.

Is this necrophilia?

SH>  Okay, let's illustrate so we can understand the three parts of man.
Let's
SH>  consider a tire.  We have the outside, the "tire," which represents
the
SH>  body.

I'll remember the next time I injure a part of the body, to use a
puncture repair kit...

SH>  Did you notice something missing?

Yeah, your brain.

Rod "...I can help you into being a lesbian, Sandy" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Phone now!  1-900-TEDDY4U -- Let teddy tempt you!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Sandy Hooper
|Sub:  Your soul....c
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:35:54
EID:d64f 222dbc60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da565a
On 22-11-96 at 22:22, SANDY HOOPER wrote to ALL:

SH>  If you are still somewhat confused, let me clarify.  When I accepted
Jesus
SH>  Christ as my Saviour, something happened.  What happened is that the
Holy
SH>  Spirit came in, and when He came in, He brought a knife with Him (Heb.
SH>  4:12).

So not only were you forced to accept someone at the end of a
deadly weapon, the sick fuck raped you and didn't even bother to
use a condom?

What sort of God is this?

SH>  Okay, so now I am cut loose from my body that I am in right now.  I
have
SH>  undergone a spiritual operation.   Let's illustrate it.

Is it a lobotomy, perchance?

SH>  In the Old Testament, a man's soul was stuck to his body.

In the Cult of ElRonHubbard, thetans are stuck on a person's body.

SH>  The question now remains.  Are you "In Christ?"  Did you receive that
SH>  operation?

No, I don't believe in bending Christ over and buttfucking him,
that'd be an insult to the love I have for my monogamous partner.

And no... I'm not going to have the lobotomy that you've
undergone.

SH>  Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour?  What happens when
you
SH>  do this?  The Holy Spirit comes in, cuts you loose from your flesh,
you
SH>  are adopted into the family of God, you are redeemed, you have been
SH>  bought with a price

Attention K-Mart shoppers... Blue light special today on souls,
aisle four... 10 for $3.99!

SH>  So what happens to the unsaved?

We get to live sane, useful, worthwhile lives not worrying about
the next existence -- while you folk are pissing your finite time
up against a wall worrying about the next emanation....

SH>  Any person who is not saved is lost.

Any person not saved is truly free.

SH>  Every single person is going to have to face his Creator.

I face my mother every day.

You're a kook Sandy.  You could be more fun than Wiens :)
*oh goody!*

Rod "...I love you, Sandy!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Sandy Hooper
|Sub:  Your soul....d
|Date: 13 Jan 97  23:36:56
EID:140e 222dbc80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32da5698
On 22-11-96 at 22:22, SANDY HOOPER wrote to ALL:

SH>  Read Psalm 22 again.  In the Bible,

You know, and I thought it was a sin for women to teach men!

Rod ".... you're going to hell Sandy, didn't you know?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * It's great to be from a Christian Family.  Far From!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   All
|Sub:  Where is your record?
|Date: 13 Jan 97  00:01:04
EID:036d 222d0020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32d90ac0
On 25-11-96 at 15:52, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to FINN HARDER:

LA>   However the consistent winners over a decade and over hundreds
LA> of open, public, scientific debates cannot be dismissed at all, by
LA> any open-minded intelligent person.

Scientific debates don't occur in auditoriums in front of lay
people.  Scientific debate occurs by *all* sides to an issue
offering their *THEORIES*, *HYPOTHESES*, *RESEARCH METHODOLOGY*
and *RESEARCH RESULTS* -- and then all of these being adjudged by
their scientific peers.

Then again, in Christian circles it's common that biblical
interpretation is done before expert peers, not lay people.

Why do you expect to be able to claim that lay people should
adjudicate science?  Especially when it's been proven that the
public displays are heavily promoted to Christian audiences, and
not as heavily promoted or advertised to non-Christian or secular
audiences.

In effect, the "debates" of Creationists are to not only ignorant
lay people, but to a *stacked* audience.  In fact, the times that
the creationists lose tend to be when it's the scientists have
challenged the creationists, and a broad crosssection of society
comes to view the quackery of creationists....

Rod "... and we laugh heartily when we do!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Phone now!  1-900-TEDDY4U -- Let teddy tempt you!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   All
|Sub:  Re: An Honest Admission.
|Date: 13 Jan 97  00:00:08
EID:c457 222d0000
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32d90a88
On 25-11-96 at 20:59, JIM TAYLOR wrote to LAURIE APPLETON:

JT> > (J.E.O'Rourke, "Pragmatism versus materialism in
JT> > stratigraphy". American Journal of Science, vol.276,
JT> > January 1976, p.53)

JT> Congratulations, Mr. Appleton--you have managed to properly
JT> cite a quotation! Folks, let's all give Mr. Appleton a big
JT> hand!

JT> While the fact that the article was published 23 years ago makes it
news to
JT> very few, and makes it difficult for me to check this out at the library
JT> (microfilm does not normally continue to be available for
JT> more than a decade), I would imagine this article must have
JT> been part of the great debate which surrounded the original
JT> erroneous dating of the infamous KBS Tuff at Koobi Fora.
JT> Is this correct?  If so, the statement in context is
JT> suggesting that Cooke's evidence should seriously be
JT> considered as corrective of the dating of the KBS Tuff.
JT> Eventually, of course, that was the view which prevailed,
JT> as evidence from other sources continued to add weight to
JT> the evidence of Cooke's suids.  The final conclusion, based
JT> on later potassium-argon runs on samples from the KBS Tuff,
JT> was that the original sample must have been contaminated by
JT> earlier material, a conclusion which the nature of that
JT> region makes not only possible but highly likely.

JT> So we are not dealing with anything resembling an "anti-evolution" position,
JT> here, but simply a discussion on the relative weight of
JT> different kinds of evidence.

Note that when Laurie quotes, ALWAYS check the source.  It's
normally saying the OPPOSITE to what Laurie "editorialises".

Rod "...be alert!" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * Don't just do something!!!  Stand there!!!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Christian Hedemark
|Sub:  Christianity
|Date: 15 Jan 97  00:54:10
EID:9e88 222f06c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dbba32
On 23-11-96 at 15:18, CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT:

CH> KW>Oh,and I would be careful with throwing that 'love' around--we have
some
CH> KW>roaring homophobes stamping around in here that might up and decide
to
CH> KW>purge you.

CH> Christian's are notorious for being descriminated against. Warning not
CH> required. People tend to get fired up when you offer them love.

Ah, what bullshit.  The majority of worldly persecutions is
someone holding a religious book in one hand, and a big stick in
another.

Rod "...you're an asshole." Swift :(

* SLMR 2.1 * Let's support Less Characters sent in Echoes Year 1997!

--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Joe Shedlock
|Sub:  Public Service Ads [1/2]
|Date: 15 Jan 97  01:00:12
EID:2ab4 222f0800
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dbbb9c
On 25-11-96 at 16:52, JOE SHEDLOCK wrote to SUE ARMSTRONG:

JS>  SA>  And cheesy little PSA ads aren't going
JS>  SA> to do anything to change this, especially when they're SO
JS>  SA> see-through it's not funny.  AIDS hasn't stopped the perception,
JS>  SA> either, because people will always have the "it can't happen to
me"
JS>  SA> attitude.

JS>  Hmmn, that's sad.  I guess AIDS will have to affect the heterosexual
JS>  community the same way it has affected the homosexual community before
JS>  people think seriously about changing their behavior.

It is, unfortunately.  Of all US women diagnosed with HIV, more than
1/4 have been diagnosed in the past 2 years.

Rod "...and diagnosis naturally lags behind infection rates" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * Don't believe in miracles, expect them.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Goodbye
|Date: 15 Jan 97  15:09:14
EID:8c2b 222f7920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dc829a
On 24-11-96 at 20:06, DAN CEPPA wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG:

DC> -> On 11-24-96  10:47, Marty Leipzig got back to J.j. Hitt

DC> After wasting precious floppy disk space on this, you had to
DC> do this:

DC>  EV>  GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
DC>  ML>  GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
DC>  JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
DC>  ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!

DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!

GRITS, GRITS, FEED HIM!

Rod "...Waffle House, eh?" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Don't look at me in that tone of voice!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Jan 97  15:22:16
EID:ea90 222f7ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dc85a8
On 22-11-96 at 11:54, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>       IF YOU WANT THE WARMTH OF CHRIST'S LOVE IN YOUR
GM>          HOME, LET HIM KINDLE A FIRE IN YOUR HEART.

And this echo is a HOLY SMOKE DETECTOR for in there, just in case
the fire gets out of control... :)

Rod "...beep beep beep" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Jesus saves.  Not on my salary he doesn't.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 15 Jan 97  15:24:18
EID:ea90 222f7b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dc8622
On 23-11-96 at 11:48, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL:

GM>                      THE GREED PROBLEM

... an indepth investigation into televangelistic scam-artists.

GM>                   MONEY IS A GOOD SERVANT
GM>                      BUT A POOR MASTER.

Proof enough to the tee-vee-preechers who get into trouble
because their heart is ruled by money ;)

Rod "...call 1-900-JESUS4U ($25.99/min, minimum call cost $593)
and donate now!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*

--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Legislating Morality
|Date: 15 Jan 97  21:34:24
EID:3baf 222fac40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dcdce0
On 28-11-96 at 17:48, J.J. HITT wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG:

JH> On Nov 27 19:08 96, Martin Goldberg of 1:124/9005.221 wrote:

JH>  MG> 1.  Gay marriages
JH>  MG> 2.  State's rights

JH>  Our State Legislature is the best argument I have against "State's
JH>  Rights".

JH>  Our State Constitution is my second best arguement. As far as I
JH>  know we have the only state Constitution that PROVES our legislators
JH>  can't count. There are two amendments with the same number. Some
JH>  idiot lost track of which was which and the proposed amendment
JH>  was printed on the proposed amendment ballots with the wrong
JH>  number. When it passed, it had to be entered into the Constitution
JH>  just as it appeared on the ballot.

Well, amazingly, I put a different spin on the issue.  Doesn't
the US Constitution claim that all rights not enumerated are
reserved to the people or something?

The only state's right in any prohibition must be one related to
a state interest.  In Hawaii, a compelling state interest to
ban same-gender marriages was not found.

It's now apparent that some states (at this time, TX, MS, CA, HI,
NE and FL) are now moving toward banning same-gender marriages
from other states being recognised in their states.

Mississippi is an interesting case at point.  They are amending
their constitution.  That state once passed a constitutional
amendment to ban interracial marriages from their state, and from
recognition in their state.  An interesting parallel on civil
rights, no?

Some US states once banned recognising/allowing interracial
marriages because legislators had personal distaste for the issue.
They even created elaborate claims that it was to stop "race
mixing" or because "mixed-race children" would suffer unfair
discrimination from peers and the general public due to their origins.

Now some US states are banning the recognition/contracting of
same-gender marriages because legislators have personal distaste
for the issue.  They're even creating elaborate claims that it
will stop "sick perverts getting married", or because "kids who have
gay parents" would suffer unfair discrimination from their peers and
the general public due to their origins.

Rod "...a very interesting similarity" Swift.

* SLMR 2.1 * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Always Downward!
|Date: 15 Jan 97  21:36:26
EID:e571 222fac80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32dcdd5a
On 27-11-96 at 20:01, MARTY LEIPZIG wrote to JASON HARMON:

ML>  ML> Like the atheist body shop...no good dings.
ML>  JH> Or the atheist IRC server: no good pings.
ML>  ML> Or an atheist Hooters...no good wings.
ML>  JH> Or an atheist doorbell: no good rings.
ML>  JH> Or the atheist prison system: no good Sing Sings.
ML>  JH> Or the athiest triangle player: no good tings.
ML>  ML> Or a poor atheist comic...no good zings.
ML>  JH> Or the athiest Frank Sinatra: no good ring-a-ding-dings.
ML>  ML> Or the atheist meat fisherman from Cape Cod...no good lings.
ML>  JH> Or the athiest monarchy: no good kings.
ML>  ML> Or atheist monogamy...no good flings.
ML>  JH> Or the atheist Texan oil baron family: no good Ewings.
ML>      Or the atheist Crosby...no good Bings.

Or the atheist Wayne and Garth... no good *schwiiings!*

Rod "...schwiiiing!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * Do not adjust your mind.  The fault is with reality.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  Bertha
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:30:28
EID:66ee 22306bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ddbcf4
On 30-11-96 at 19:26, J.J. HITT wrote to ROD SWIFT:

JH>  RS> On 11-07-96 at 16:49, J.J. HITT wrote to ALL:

JH>  JH>>  It looks like hurricane Bertha is going to give Pat
JH>  JH>> Robertson a social call.

JH>  JH>>  Give 'im hell, Bertha!

JH>  Ummm... I remember writing that all right...

JH>  But I didn't wait until the seventh of November to say it.

JH>  (I don't have my hurricane data on the hard disk right now, but
JH>  Bertha should have been in August or late July).

It says 11-Jul-96 to me :)

Rod "...you silly Americans and your failure to comply with
international date formats :)" Swift

* SLMR 2.1 * Mud thrown is ground lost.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  another one
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:53:30
EID:3c26 22306ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ddc25a
On 24-11-96 at 22:48, FREDRIC RICE wrote to JUDITH BANDSMA:

FR> ~*~  Luke 14:26 is pretty good: "Whoever comes to me and does not hate
FR>      father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes,
FR>      and even life itself, cannot be my disciple." (NRSV) See too, Matt.
FR>      19:29.

I'd like to make a point about this tag, Fredric! :)

Didn't the bible also say that parents should execute their
annoying and rebellious children?  And wouldn't this make the
above quote a contradiction?

Rod "...just being observant!" Swift :)

* SLMR 2.1 * A Magick Book that sticks with you: The VELCRONOMICON

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Perth Omen BBS -- FASTER LIVE InterNet (+619) 244 2111 (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Christopher Baker
|To:   All
|Sub:  Re: AANEWS #231  Part 1 of 2
|Date: 16 Jan 97  04:37:55
EID:c226 223024a0
MSGID: 1:18/14 32DDF6F3
PID: GenMsg 5.00 [0002]
Date: 16 Jan 97 09:37:55 UTC
* Copy of message posted via A_THEIST
* Date: 16 Jan 97  04:35:21
* From: Christopher Baker
* To: All
* Message text was not edited!

[part 1 of 2]

From: Cgastbook@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:37:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Atheist] re: AANEWS for January 15,1997
Sender: owner-aanews@listserv.direct.net
Reply-To: aanews@listserv.atheists.org

from: AMERICAN ATHEISTS
subject: AANEWS for January 15, 1997

A M E R I C A N   A T H E I S T S
~~   A A N E W S   ~~
#231 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1/15/97
http://www.atheists.org
ftp.atheists.org/pub/
e-mail: aanews@atheists.org

In This Issue...
* O'Hair Group Wins Another Round In Truth Seeker Trials
* Bishop Wants To Stop Same-Sex Marriages In Hawaii
* "Kabuki" Religionists Support RFRA
* TheistWatch: Creationism In New Mexico
* Join AACHAT
* About This List...

ATHEISTS WIN THIRD STRAIGHT IN TRUTH SEEKER FLAP
"I Hope It's Over For Good," says American Atheists President...

There was good news earlier this week for American Atheists, as the
U.S. Circuit Court ruled in favor of AA founder Madalyn Murray O'Hair
and other defendants in the controversial Truth Seeker trial.
The decision marked the third consecutive court victory for Madalyn
O'Hair and her fellow defendants in a legal squabble dating back to
the late 1980's.  The suit arose out of an earlier action O'Hair and a
group of Atheists associated with the old American Association for the
Advancement of Atheism, the National Liberal League and the public
known as "The Truth Seeker."  The "group" sought an accounting of
Truth Seeker finances which were then under the control of the late
James Hervey Johnson.
Details of the case were regularly reported in the American Atheist
Newsletter; and a full review of the matter was made in the Newsletter
issue of December, 1994 (Vol. 33, No. 12).  Ellen Johnson, President
of American Atheists, applauded the court's decision and saw it as a
vindication of Madalyn O'Hair and others on charges which have
appeared in the news media and elsewhere.
"Since the disappearance of the O'Hair family, news coverage has
slavishly misrepresented the facts of the Truth Seeker case," Johnson
noted.  "The O'Hairs have been portrayed as scoundrels and thieves,
but this marks the third consecutive time that courts have ruled
otherwise and found no merit in these charges."
Johnson observed that those court proceedings included a trial in
front of a jury, another court trial with a judge, and now the
proceeding in front of the U.S. Circuit Court.

Time To "Put This Behind Us And Move

On..." Ms. Johnson also expressed hope that this latest decision
would finally be the end of the Truth Seeker matter.  "Both sides have
spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, and no one has
been helped by this situation."  She added that "It's been a windfall
for attorneys, clogged the courts, and interfered with our work.  A
lot of money donated by Atheists to the Truth Seeker has been
squandered on these litigious proceedings by the plaintiffs.  I really
hope it's over for good, and we can put this behind us and move on."
Johnson said that the latest ruling would be discussed thoroughly
in the next American Atheist newsletter.

**

IS CATHOLIC CHURCH IN HAWAII ENGAGING IN POLITICAL ACTIVISM ?
Bishop Calls For Rally Against Same-Sex Marriage

Mitch Kahle, Hawaii State Director for American Atheists, reports
that the local Roman Catholic establishment is coming dangerously
close to engaging in political activism as it attempts to rally the
faithful over the issue of gay or same-sex marriage.  Church officials
have called for a January 24 rally at the capitol building in
Honolulu; in addition, Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo has issued a
statement which, in addition to urging believers to participate, also
implores them to "write, or fax your legislator that same day to let
them know that you want justice for marriage."
The rally was announced last week in the Hawaii Catholic Herald.  A
"Dear Friends in Christ" letter from DiLorenzo warns that "If the
Hawaii Supreme Court upholds that (same-sex marriage) decision, as
they are likely to do, and if our state legislature does nothing, this
state will be the first place in history to approve and endorse 'same
sex marriage'."
The letter repeats the familiar conspiracy motif that religious
values are under attack by secular culture.  "Over the past three
decades," wrote the Bishop, " economic, cultural and social attacks
have eroded marriage and family life.  Now, advocates for gay and
lesbian rights want to change the very definition of marriage itself."
DiLorenzo called for a constitutional amendment to the state
constitution which "allows the people, not the lawyers and the courts,
to define marriage."
The Catholic Church in Hawaii may be jeopardizing its privileged
tax-exempt status as a religious organization by actively laboring for
specific legislative remedies -- in this case a constitutional
amendment.
A Promise Keepers Rally In Honolulu

The Church may also be getting help as a result of the fallout from
the interdenominational Promise Keepers group, which just held one its
males-only rallies on the island.  An AANEWS observer noted that PK
speakers referred to the Bible as the "absolute guide" for personal
behavior.  Critics of the Promise Keepers have noted the groups
hostility toward gays, and how the PK leadership overlaps with
organizations working against laws which would legitimize same-sex
marriages.

(Thanks to Mitch Kahle for information used in this story...)

**

RELIGIOUS GROUPS JOIN IN CALL FOR ''SPECIAL RIGHTS'' LEGISLATION
Muslims, X-ian Fundamentalists, Humanists & Others Defend RFRA

Should religious groups enjoy "special rights" by virtue of belief
in a deity?  Should churches, temples and other religious bodies be
exempt from laws which apply to everyone else?  And should religious
belief be a criteria in giving persons special protections not enjoyed
by the rest of the population?
A coalition of religious groups think they should, and yesterday
urged the U.S. Supreme Court to uphold the constitutionality of the
controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act.  Under the title of
Coalition for the Free Exercise of Religion, the group also intervened
with an amicus ("friend of the court")  brief in the case of City of
Boerne, Tx. v. P.F. Flores, Archbishop of San Antonio et al. That case
is becoming the constitutional litmus test for the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act, legislation drafted and written by religious
organizations.

A Tainted History

The RFRA controversy goes back to a 1990 Supreme Court decision
known as Smith v. Employment Division.  Smith involved the case of an
Oregon Indian tribe's use of the hallucinogenic drug peyote in sacred
ceremonies.  Although such use was a violation of the law, the tribe
insisted that the Native American church should still have to right to
use the substance as an exercise in religious liberty.  Attorneys for
the church insisted that the state could not "substantially burden"
religious exercise without demonstrating a "compelling interest" in
doing so.
Ironically, it was one of the more conservative and faith-driven
Justices of the high court, Antonin Scalia, who disagreed.  Admitting
that the standard cited in Smith would place minority faiths at a
"disadvantage," Scalia suggested that this was an "unavoidable
consequence of democratic government."
No sooner had the Smith decision been handed down than religious
organizations throughout the country swung into action, and enlisted
55 constitutional scholars in drafting the so-called Religious Freedom
Restoration Act, and urging a re-hearing on Smith.   Twenty religious
groups were initially involved in the effort representing such diverse
organizations as the National Association of Evangelicals to People
for the American Way.  American Atheists was one of the few groups
speaking out against the dangers of RFRA.  The group cited the
dangerous precedent of inventing "special rights" for religious groups
that persons gained apparently by virtue of merely being part of a
religion.  In other words, actions which were illegal for one segment
of society would be tolerated as long as they were carried out under
the guise of religious exercise.

Enter St. Peter Church

The constitutional test of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act
will be a case involving St. Peter Church, a 70-year old building in
the town of Boerne, Texas.  When the Archdiocese announced plans in
October to demolish the structure, city officials promptly invoked
local historic preservation ordinances to stop the project.  The
city's Major declared that the church was a "community landmark," and
that "this community values its visual and historical heritage,
whether it's a church or a 100-year-old library."
The church is not arguing against the validity or constitutionality
of local laws affecting historic structures -- only whether there
should be an exemption in the case of religious organizations.  The
Archdiocese cites the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which
would require the city of Boerne to convince a federal judge that it
has a "compelling interest" in "burdening" a religious group.

[end part 1 of 2]

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|From: Christopher Baker
|To:   All
|Sub:  Re: AANEWS #231  Part 2 of 2
|Date: 16 Jan 97  04:38:29
EID:f126 223024c0
MSGID: 1:18/14 32DDF715
PID: GenMsg 5.00 [0002]
Date: 16 Jan 97 09:38:29 UTC
* Copy of message posted via A_THEIST
* Date: 16 Jan 97  04:36:13
* From: Christopher Baker
* To: All
* Message text was not edited!

[part 2 of 2]

Are Some More "Equal" Than Others ?

But critics in the Boerne and other RFRA-related controversies
insist that the Act offers "equal protection" to religious groups and
believers, but not to the rest of the population.  Under RFRA, the
City of Boerne (or any other government entity) could enforce zoning,
preservation or other kinds of laws on private citizens and
businesses, but would have to make a stronger case for doing so when
dealing with churches and religions.  Opponents argue that the RFRA
thus violates the Establishment Clause by providing religions with
special privileges over all other types of belief or non-belief.

A Rogues Gallery Of Religious And "Kabuki"

Religionists Support for the Religious Freedom Restoration Act has
come from a wide range of religious organizations, as well as "Kabuki"
religious groups which ordinarily boast of their secularist or
separationist credentials.  The former category includes the American
Baptist Churches, American Jewish Committee, Baptist Joint Committee
on Public Affairs, Christian Legal Society, Episcopal Church, Guru
Gobind Sing Foundation, Presbyterian Church, National Sikh Center,
Muslim Prison Foundation and the Christian-Reconstructionist Home
School Legal Defense Association.  The reactionary Traditional Values
Coalition is also a member, along with the Rabbinical Council of
America, United Church of Christ, and the Church of Scientology.
Curiously, the American Humanist Association is also listed as a
cheerleader for the RFRA, along with American Civil Liberties Union (a
great disappointment!), Americans for Religious Liberty, and Americans
United for Separation of Church and State.
The amicus brief was prepared by a panel of members drawn from many
of the coalition member groups.  Authors of the document include: Marc
D. Stern (American Jewish Congress), Oliver S. Thomas (National
Council of Churches), Steven McFarland (Christian Legal Society),
Elliot Mincberg (People for the American Way), Steven Green (Americans
United), Michael Farris (Home School Legal Defense Association) and
Melissa Rogers (Baptist Joint Committee).  Arguments in the case will
be heard by the high court on February 19; a decision is expected
before the end of June.
**

THEISTWATCH SHORT SHOTS

There are serious problems concerning the historicity of "Jesus
Christ," said to be the founder of the Christian religion.  Many
scholars consider Jesus to have been a combination of several
different persons, or even a metaphor; there is precious little
evidence that such an individual ever existed.  Indeed, would be god-
men, messiahs said to have been born of a virgin who suffered and
died, then rose from the grave to fly off to heaven populate the
hagiography of the world's religions.
But those concerns haven't stopped the Italian Parliament from
approving a bill which would grant nearly 3,500 billion lire --
approximately $2.3 billion U.S. -- to projects designed to mark the
2,000 anniversary of Jesus's alleged birth.  The cash will be
funnelled to a Millennium committee headed by an official Monsignor of
the Catholic Church.  One Vatican official gushed that this latest
raid on the public treasury was "a real Christmas present." Up to 40
million pilgrims are expected to pour into Italy for the celebrations
focused on the year 2000.  The Church has declared an official
Jubilee, and now -- with a bit of help from hard-pressed Italian
taxpayers --will have even more money to spend on this lavish display
of religious fervor.
**

An article in a recent issue of the Journal of Church and State
observes that in the 1996 election campaign, shrill religious rhetoric
managed to reach an all-time high.  Both parties, it seemed, attempted
to one-up the other in appealing to god and the wholesomeness of the
religious lifestyle.  How many times was "god" implored to bless the
politically faithful, anyway?
And politicians just couldn't keep their hands out of the religious
collection plate.  Religious right groups poured millions of dollars
into Republican coffers; and not to be outdone, Democrats tried to
grab as much as they could even if the contributions took the form of
"soft money" funnelled through religious groups.
There is now more news about the notorious "temple fund raiser", an
event held at the Hsi Lai Buddhist Temple in Hacienda Heights,
California, which featured Vice President Albert Gore.  Recall that
Demo operative John Huang put together the event, which raised over
$140,000 in highly questionable donations from monks and others
associated with the Buddhist cult.
In October, Mr. Gore described the meeting as "just a community
event...not billed as a fund-raiser."  But Associated Press now
reports that the Democratic National Committee had sent the Vice
President (who had met with the sects "Venerable Master" at least once
during a visit to Taiwan) a list of "major supporters" and suggested
that he "extend appreciation for participant support and inspire
political and fund-raising efforts." Gore spokesperson Lorraine Voles
insists that "He (the Vice President) knew it was a finance-related
event."
**

Creationism -- the religious view that life and the universe arose
in accordance with the literal Biblical story of Genesis -- is
becoming an issue again in New Mexico.  The Creation Science
Fellowship has offered a prize of up to $1,000 to participants in an
annual science fair who have "an outstanding project...that
demonstrates designs in nature or a catastrophic process in nature."
According to the Albuquerque Journal, the director of the
Northwestern New Mexico Regional Engineering and Science Fair says
that the group's advisory board will decide next week whether the fair
will accept the prize offering.  Randi Buck told reporters "This kind
of thing with a semi-controversial or religious issue has never
happened before.  We're trying not to pull a controversial issue into
a student competition, and there is a feeling that this was an issue
that involves religion."
But a spokesman for the Creationist group argued that "designs in
nature" could simply involve patterns of genetic material, while a
"catastrophic process" might be an exhibition about volcanos.  Jerry
Simmons of CSF admitted that most of the 200 members of the group are
"Christian-oriented and Bible-based," and that the prize was meant to
offer young people "choices."

**

INTERESTED IN MEETING OTHER ATHEISTS ?

Then you should join American Atheists and participate in our
moderated on-line discussion forum, aachat.  It's a great way to
communicate with other Atheists; and it is a stimulating discussion
forum for a range of provocative topics including Atheism, state-
church separation, problems of being an Atheist in a religious culture
and much, much more.
To participate in aachat, you must be a member in good standing of
American Atheists.  For membership information, send mail to
info@atheists.org and include your name and postal mailing address.
If you are already a member, contact Margie Wait, the moderator at
aachat@atheists.org.
**
ABOUT THIS LIST...
AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide
movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of
Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and
religion.  For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to aanews-
request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the
quotation marks, please) in the message body.  You may forward, post
or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given
to aanews and American Atheists.  Edited by Conrad F. Goeringer, The
LISTMASTER (cg@atheists.org).  Internet Representative for American
Atheists is Margie Wait, irep@atheists.org.

[end part 2 of 2]

- DB B2300sl/001027
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub:  ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 15 Jan 97  16:35:00
EID:105b 222f8460
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Roger Hunter <=-

RH> Flunk basic science, did you? 

RM> Sarcasm, eh?  You should probably save that for some time when you're

RM> right.

Sarcasm? Mild humor, by HolySmoke standards. Saecasm here is more like
"Fucking moron".

RH> Look, we assume that nature operates under consistent laws which are

RH> discoverable.
RM> 
RM> And your evidence for that assumption?  As opposed to some

Basic assumptions of that sort are like axioms. They are the
starting point. The difference is that mathematical axioms do
not require proof, whereas scientific assumptions only stand
as long as the evidence supports them.

RM> alternative?  Have you even considered any alternative?  Have you ever
RM> heard any  scientist consider the possibility that some particular
RM> physical  phenomenon might be inherently beyond our understanding? 

No. Have you?

RH> Then we make observations, such as how long it takes an 
RH> object to fall a given distance. We observe that the time is
RH> consistent  (within experimental error). So observation supports the
RH> hypothesis. 
RM> 
RM> That's supports the hypothesis that the universe is understandable?

RM> And  here I thought that it supported the hypothesis that all objects
RM> fall with 
RM> the same acceleration. Since you apparently don't see any difference,
RM> let  me explain in a little more detail.

It was an example of evidence which supports the hypothesis, yes.
Since you understood it, it would seem to be good evidence.

RM> I'm a statistician (sometimes ).  I spend part of my time trying
to

Oh, worse than a damned liar, then. 

RM> prove (or disprove) that there are real patterns in data.  I am WELL
RM> aware 
RM> that the human mind is quite capable of discerning patterns where no

RM> pattern exists.  Scientists are human, so it's not surprising that 
RM> they discern apparent patterns in their observations.  Science just
RM> boldly 
RM> assumes that such patterns exist (IMHO, a good assumption). 
RM> Scientists  then hypothesize about the FORM of the pattern, and test
RM> these hypotheses  with further data, but science never tests the
RM> fundamental assumption that 
RM> SOME sort of pattern must exist.  In fact, it seems to me that that

RM> particular assumption cannot be tested at all.  It is axiomatic to all
RM> of  science.

We assume that patterns exist, we look and find patterns, everyone
finds the same patterns, and you think that's not evidence?

Have you met Lee W.?

RM> Don't confuse deterministic with understandable.  QED requires us to

RM> abandon the hypothesis that the laws of the universe are all 
RM> deterministic.  It does NOT require us to abandon the assumption that
RM> the  universe is basically understandable.  QED is such a damn
RM> successful  theory that now it is very clear that we _do_ understand
RM> those particular  aspects of the universe.  The fact that they are
RM> non-deterministic might  bother a lot of people, but it doesn't bother
RM> a statistician too much . 

Another reason to suspect you. 

RM> Can you think of an observation that would make you abandon the 
RM> assumption that the universe is understandable?  If there is no 
RM> observation that might make us abandon the assumption, it is not
RM> really a  scientific hypothesis, is it? 

Yes, I can. If things which were stable started randomly changing,
the assumption would fall. But it would take a LOT to convince us,
because the weight of evidence up to now is very great.

RM> Oh?  You don't believe that the universe is fundamentally
RM> understandable?  

No, I accept it as a working hypothesis, one well-tested by time.

RM> Now the question is, do you not accept that it is true that the
RM> universe  is understandable?  Do you not base some of your actions on
RM> that belief?   Do you regularly entertain any doubt on the issue?

Yes, subject to change as required. Yes. No, since I have seen
no contrary evidence above the quantum level.

RM> So let me ask it again: Are you using the term "belief" in it's
RM> standard  meaning?  I suspect you are using it the way most people
RM> would use the  word "faith", but I may be wrong in that, so I'd
RM> appreciate it if you'd  cut the sarcasm and game playing long enough
to
RM> clarify your meaning.   Is that an unreasonable request?

I'm using belief in the sense of "Believe on the Lord and you will
be saved". Equivalent to "unevidenced faith".

RM> And Al doesn't sacrifice lambs either.

RH> 2,000 years ago he would have. He would do so today if his God
RH> required it.

RM> And 2,000 years ago you would have been completely ignorant of 
RM> everything we are discussing here.  How is that relevant?

The latter part is relevant. Based on his belief, Al would sacrifice 
lambs if required to do so by his unfounded belief system.



... Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 15 Jan 97  16:37:00
EID:e45b 222f84a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

RH> No, we believed in gods which could be appeased and cajoled but not
RH> always predicted. Another way of explaining chaos.

AS> Yep. And that is an inevitable byproduct of a polytheistic worldview.

But Al, a monotheistic god could also be capricious. In fact YHVH
has been so Himself. It's in the book!

AS> Yes indeed; one has a lot of sympathy with Einstein. The first time
I
AS> really comprehended QM, my first reaction was, "Okay, now REALLY,
AS> what do you mean..."

I still feel that way. I keep looking for the catch....




... Logic 101: Do not endeavor to prove negatives. Unless you're an idiot.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 15 Jan 97  17:06:00
EID:31dc 222f88c0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Mark Kimes <=-

AS> As Haldane said a long time ago, "If my mental processes are
AS> determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no
AS> reason to suppose my
AS> beliefs are true...and hence Ihave no reason for supposing my brain
AS> to be composed of atoms." Once you throw the process of making

You equally have no reason to suppose they are false. This logic
is faulty, Al.

AS> inferences in suspicion, any reasoning you use to try to prove its
AS> validity is itself a product of inferences.
AS> But, if there is something beyond Nature in our inferences..in the
AS> certainty from which we derive the knoweldge of "if A, then B"...then
AS> we may trust our reason.
AS> And ONLY then.

Baloney. There are tests for errors, Al, and they don't require invisible
superfriends to make them work.

You're slipping....




... Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.- Randi
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|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Where are my glasses?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  12:41:59
EID:0582 22306520
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9fc17739
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07908523
Bilabial Fricatives on 15 Jan 97, of Fredric Rice/Ed Mills, thus:

em> Maybe they're hoping she'll be shot by a little boy with a
em> one-inch toy pistol so they don't have to pay her unemployment.

FR> That's another one I heard about yesterday, yes.  Amazing.
FR> The world is nuts.

em> The nuts and kooks I don't mind - hell, I are one.
em> It's the idiots that scare me.

FR> Nearly all of them with easy access to firearms.  }:-}

Seems like everyone owns a couple of matching noia these days.

The world is full of idiots with guns! Better get a gun, quick!

edweird   :)


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|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  20:25:39
EID:2d73 2230a320
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 b5968abd
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 f1323c08
JS>  Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.

EM>   I didn't know that mormons did not subscribe to the
EM> bible/christ   myth. Thanks for the clarification!

EM>    I always suspected they were atheists, though.

JS> No, not atheists, merely apostates. They do not look to Jesus
JS> sacrifice and that alone for salvation. They do not recognize Him as
JS> the one and
JS> only Son of God.

Ah, yes. They'll step on the cracks, but still refuse to open
an umbrella indoors. Well, hell. If you're gonna buy the program,
might as well buy the whole thing, eh?

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  pretty rules
|Date: 16 Jan 97  20:54:55
EID:b244 2230a6c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 563698ce
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32da2779
12 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Ed Mills:

Jd> I was reassured of the journalisitic integrity and independence of our
Jd> news media right after the North Korean Sub aground in South Korea
Jd> incident, and, each and every newscast carried precisely the
Jd> word forword identical propaganda release. "28 North Korean soldiers
Jd> were FOUND DEAD OR KILLED.....[emphasis mine]. One must admit
Jd> newscasters ARE a talented bunch...not ONE of them cracked a smile
Jd> while reading of the North Korean 'apology'.

They're bred for perky smiles and good posture. One must consider
the prevailing audience mentality, after all. 'Scuse me while I
go take another snort of Massengill.

Jd> I'm still trying to
Jd> figure out just exacty when murder victims began having to apologize
Jd> to the murderer. Odd, not a peep of protest from the god squad.

Oh, I dunno. Sounds pretty par for the course, really.

Those yellow commie heathens aren't really _people,_ y'know.

(for those who are allergic to F-16 exhaust fumes, this is
sarcasm.)

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:26:18
EID:9192 2230ab40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 8086d8c8
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32dd8727
16 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from David Worrell to Ed Mills:

DW> 14 Jan 97 22:02, Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer:

EM>          Trade you this appliance for it:
EM>     -+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-
EM> section 1 of uuencode 5.20 of file carrier.gif    by R.E.M.

DW> rofl

That's what happened when the Mitchell Brothers got into the
pet supply business.

edweird


... Hail to the Sun god! He is a fun god! Ra! Ra! Ra!

--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Warring Christanic Death Cult Factions
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:28:44
EID:0cff 2230ab80
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f7d9c5c4
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07908522
15 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Fredric Rice to Ed Mills:

em> After several other people pulled through and drove off, she
em> apparently realized she was getting very poor service, and
em> proceeded to lay on the horn for a solid ten minutes, I swear
em> to Goat.

FR> It's like that all over.  I constantly harp about the clowns who used
FR> to life next to me...  The man -- an adult, I will add -- couldn't
FR> tell whether the Moon or clouds were closer to the Earth's surface.

FR> He also had no idea what stars were.

I know way too many people who make a lot more money than I
do (which isn't difficult) and who do not know that our Sun
is a star, or that hydrogen is the commonest element, blah
blah blah. Some of these people have fairly sterling academic
credentials, too. If that's what it means to have an MBA, then
I'm glad I dropped out in the 11th grade.

Sure could use the 40 thou a year, though.   :)

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Suck up! Rice Brothers
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:42:04
EID:4e05 2230ad40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 337c27f8
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07908524
15 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Fredric Rice to Ed Mills:

FR> my "KABOOM" files?  (I took them offline after I saw that little shits
FR> were downloading them in droves.)  The draw lever which cocks it is
a
FR> wheel which runs along the ground.  A ratchet holds it in the cocked
FR> position until ready to fire then the pick-up rolls forward a bit
FR> recocking the spring and the next pointed roundstock gets placed in
FR> the troff ready to be fired.

FR> I don't think it was intended to be used on trees, though.

It would be ironic if the demise of the oxygen cycle were
arrested by a device made from part of a car, though.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:07:16
EID:1273 223068e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de2804
-> On 14 Jan 97  13:54:26, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> from the white men.  The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC> not white men, but other Indians.

Jd> Wasn't it the whites who taught scalping to the Indians?

I'm not quite sure about that.  However, the whites did insist 
that evidence be provided to pay the bounty.  It may have been 
a mutual agreement on scalps for that evidence.    

But, I do believe that you are correct in that scalping began 
only after the whites began using the Indians as their brute 
squad.  

... Who got the short end of the stick in the Bobbit affair?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:09:40
EID:7583 22306920
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de2894
-> On 14 Jan 97  16:07:42, Glen Todd got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> from the white men.  The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC> not white men, but other Indians.

GT> And which they learned from the French.   Actually, she only scalps

Now, did the French actually start the practice, or did they only 
insist on scalps for evidence of the kill?  

Either way, it goes a long way in explaining the current state 
of affairs in Quebec.  

... Surveys are the leading cause of statistics.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Vulcanologist fellows
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:32:59
EID:fcd6 22306c00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de2e0b
-> On 14 Jan 97  09:55:48, Jan deBoer got back to Andrew Msten 

Jd> Mt. St. Helens, in the early 80's, with President Harry Truman (who
Jd> DIED in 72!) REASONABLE?

Jan, not having read/seen the original on this, it may be 
a mistake on your part.  The former president is Harry S Truman.  
(Note, no period after the 'S' )  

There was a character by the name of Harry Truman that lived 
underneath the area of the blast.  He decided to remain after 
being warned of the impending explosion.  And, he's still 
there, somewhere, maybe all over the place.  

If you have a copy of Laurie's statement, please u/l it.  If 
he uses or implies 'President' or 'Harry S Truman' in it, he is 
then fully bullshitting again.  If not, you are the one in error 
on him claiming to be with the deceased president.  

... "Better than a poke in the eye with sharp stick!"  J. Lackey
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:44:35
EID:11df 22306d80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de30c3
-> On 14 Jan 97  14:20:51, Martin Goldberg got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> However, hit me up for some more about September.  I'll  get 
DC> them to you, if your stomach can handle them!  

MG> Anything that comes out of my mother in law'skitchen qualifies as
MG> scary food. 

You haven't lived (died?) until you've had a meal at my ex MiL's 
house.  Her idea of gravy is some thickening and six cups of 
pure lard. 

... Four food groups: Fast, Frozen, Instant and Microwavable!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jim Steingrobe
|Sub:  Am I getting through?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:50:08
EID:c5b0 22306e40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de3210
-> On 15 Jan 97  08:04:48, Jim Steingrobe got back to All 

JS> WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet. Now I

This isn't a BBS, it's a Fido Echo.  

Perhaps you can exlain the process that you do use to get Fido 
via Internet.  There are a few people exploring that route 
and would like the info.  

Goat bless you for helping!  

... 'Noah's Flood'?  Ah, yes -- the original Noah brainer.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Heathens
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:04:00
EID:c73d 22307080
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de3550
-> On 15 Jan 97  14:40:58, Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Well, the Greeks beat him to it!

SQ> the right path in crying out to the divine.  How monotheism is
SQ> superior to monotheism, well, that's another issue that Jones never
SQ> addressed.  What a surprise. 

At least the Greek pantheon had a recognized number of deities.  
His makes up a new deity for every kid born.  

Hey, Jesse!  We're talking about you!  Gonna reply or continue to 
pretend that you really flown the Echo?  

... "Bother", said Pooh as he drank his fifth Pan Galactic Gargle
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   All
|Sub:  Trolling for Jesse!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:11:49
EID:ca22 22307160
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de3725
A buck to the first post that elicits a response from 
Jesse Jones.  

... "Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning." - Jesse Jones, 9/23/93
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  joke
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:15:31
EID:de7c 223071e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de3803
-> On 14 Jan 97  15:23:08, Fredric Rice got back to Matthew Hunt 

> One, we stand to make $1 billion dollars.
> Two, we may loose the Wonderbread account..."
----           ^^^^^
FR> I don't get it.

It was a typo and ruined the joke.  He meant to type, "we 
may fuck over the Wonderbread account, but can we keep it 
and the $1 Billion dollars at the same time?"  

... Old myths are the dried up husks of dead religions.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:22:13
EID:33ba 223072c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de3995
-> On 15 Jan 97  14:03:12, Steve Quarrella got back to Fredric Rice 

SQ> Mormons deal with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT Jesus of Nazareth who was put

SQ> [I can't believe I defend the assholes who harass my wife!]

Look at it this way:  I feel the same about defending Appleton!  

... "Yes, I could tell you how it's done, but then I'd have to kill you"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Read the Bible!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  15:09:09
EID:55a8 22307920
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de4495
-> On 14 Jan 97  15:09:17, Fredric Rice got back to Dan Ceppa 

dc> And, like the bible, was an important
dc> addition to each and every outhouse.

FR> Hey!  That's "blasphemy," pal!   }:-}

Sorry.  I didn't know that you worshipped the Sears Catalog.  

FR> the Christian Bible...  It's "Television Guide."  He seemes to think
FR> that there may be some school text books which have more copies

I think I remember seeing that statistic some time back.  It may 
be the most often quoted, as well.  

... I know who David Muzzy is.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Ski Canada -- In the summer!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  15:15:42
EID:0c51 223079e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de461e
-> On 15 Jan 97  13:13:14, Steve Quarrella got back to Fredric Rice 

FR> speak here in California.  And people from New York don't speak the
same
FR> English we speak here.

SQ> So, if I went into L.A. and said "Get the fuck out of the car,
SQ> asshole, or I'll blow your goddamned head off," they wouldn't
SQ> understand me? 

Yes and no.  In New York, the recipient of the comment would know 
that the cabbie got him to his destination and wanted a big tip.  

In LA, the recipient would try to psychoanalyze the cabbie as 
to about a latent tendancy to be a tad bit condescending to 
the rider.    

... "Eye's a Anglish majjur, an I neber heard tha' werd".  Bro Jimmy
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Where are my glasses?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  15:27:03
EID:7b1c 22307b60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32de48c7
-> On 14 Jan 97  15:42:55, Fredric Rice got back to Gwenny The Pooh 

FR> My question is, why does this teacher still have a job?
gtp> Because someone has to teach after they fire all the good teachers.

FR> ___WHAT___ good teachers?!   Any man or woman smart enough and

There used to be some, but it's getting harder to find them.  


FR> and energy it takes to actually IMPART AN EDUCATION would ___never___
FR> teach in the Public School system if they had a choice. 

Thing is, the same can be said of private institutions.  

FR> Of all the teachers I have ever had, only _one_ demanded and received
FR> respect and as such was able to impart a little something of American

That's part ofthe problem.  There is no respect being imparted 
in any educational system today.  I called my advisor 'Paul' 
that only when alone.  It was 'Dr. Zuber' on all other occasions.

FR> By the second or third year you can't get good teachers willing to
FR> even try any more. 
  

Which is the root of the problem.  There's a fine line between 
being liked and being respected.  As it is now, it's not so 
much being 'liked' as a teacher, but not being harassed by the 
students because you are the 'enemy'.  

... The Necrotelecomnicon:  Book of telephone numbers's of the dead.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:45:23
EID:b136 2230ada0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea173
-> On 14 Jan 97  05:25:16, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> would be your net worth?  If I had no assets other than the
DC> $1,232 you owed me, what would be my net worth?

JB> "Accounting?"  (*grin*)  Let's pin this one.  My info is that the
JB> A-rabs  invented it (_before_ oil economics *g*).  Do you happen to
JB> have the  actual story handy?

Not off the top, no.  Most likely, Robert Curry does, however.  

I think that you are correct that the Arabs developed the concept.  
The Greeks, I believe, made use of it.  Yet, IIRC, there is no 
zero in the Roman numeral system. 

It was only after the fall of Toledo that 'zero' came into use in Europe.


I don't have the book handy, but perhaps a more detailed version 
is available in James Burke's work.  I can't remember if it was 
the first of his book/TV series or the second, now.  

... "Cry halibut and let slip the frogs of whore!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Christian Hedemark
|Sub:  Christ-Like
|Date: 16 Jan 97  21:53:21
EID:c5fb 2230aea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea351
-> On 14 Jan 97  01:43:01, Christian Hedemark got back to Dan Ceppa 

CH> A real stairway to heaven... then you want the Holey Spirit.

An apt description, as your theology is full of holes.  


DC>message you left to Martin.  However, don't expect him to
DC>take you up on your offer.

CH> Have you guessed yet why few people talk to you, outside of those like
CH> yourself?

Have you ever guessed that it's because brain dead fundys haven't 
the mental acuity to fight their way out of a wet paper bag 
with a running chainsaw in their possession?  


... FAITH: Fundies. Always Ignorant, Thoroughly Helpless.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 16 Jan 97  22:00:42
EID:b2bf 2230b000
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea50a
-> On 14 Jan 97  05:27:02, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa 

JB> Thanks.  I noticed that.  Elsewhere you baldfacedly state you do
JB> believe  in the Tooth Fairy.  (I hope that doesn't get misused against
JB> you like  similar stuff gets misused against _me_....)

No, we'll just use it against you, instead.  


DC> Yes, John, there is a point to this.  I do think you are already
DC> seeing it.
JB> I see that, like a fundie under attack by reason, you would rather

DC> Not even close, John.  Try again.

JB> (*grin*)  Nope.  Another trick learned from the fundies: pretend to
JB> fail  to see that the argument is aimed directly at oneself....

Wrong again, John.  In other posts I stated the evidence that 
supports the Tooth Fairy.  It is quite compelling.  After all, 
the teeth are taken and a tangible item replaces it.  

How else could that be described?  Shall we envince magic making 
the transformation?  Or, would a simpler explanation be better?

... "These are the mimes that fry men's souls." - T. Painsky
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Free Willy
|Date: 16 Jan 97  22:06:34
EID:9862 2230b0c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea66a
-> On 14 Jan 97  11:46:16, Jan deBoer got back to Domino 

Jd> warm beer, power outages, computer incompatibilities, and christmas
Jd> eve furnace breakdowns.

Hey!  I had one of those!  

One of the best ever, I might add.  Spent the night in the 
cold house in front of an open fireplace with a great Yiddish 
amatala and celebrated all night.  

... "Yes, I could tell you how it's done, but then I'd have to kill you"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  OMX/BW
|Date: 16 Jan 97  22:12:28
EID:0f9b 2230b180
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea7cc
-> On 14 Jan 97  04:29:48, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa 

Jd> No, I was looking for something that could handle both .qwk and
Jd> bluewave formatted packets.

Well, if it's just reading them, BW does do both.  I'm not 
sure, as I rarely use it, but Terminate is supposed to be 
a QWK reader.  Perhaps a variation of my set up may just 
work for you.  I don't think it will toss BW packets, but 
I've never logged on to a BBS that had a BW door. 


... Christian Myth #1: Jesus was white.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  One of yours?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  22:15:33
EID:ef15 2230b1e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32dea885
-> On 14 Jan 97  07:38:14, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa 

DM> Recently, here at the Journal of Rehabilitation Research
DM> and Development, we received this letter from Olympia.

DM> People such as Bill and Melinda Gates, Paul Allen,
[..]  
DM> dwelling place off and on for several years have added
DM> to this harrassment and hate crime.

About the only person not mentioned is the pope!  

DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.

Please place a warning bell around her neck so I can avoid her!  

Thanks for the warning.  

... "What you do not smell is iocaine powder." -The Dread Pirate Roberts
P
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Christ-Like
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:15:09
EID:c74f 223109e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded29d
-> On 15 Jan 97  06:39:53, Domino got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> "god(s)" shape their view of reality.  
Do> Not neccesarily.
DC> If their god doesn't, then it is meaningless.  

Do> Beleiving in a form of deity does not mean you have to be in a certain
Do> frame of mind. 

So, just how does one go about thinking that something that has 
never been shown to exists is real?  


... The stronger the supernatural beliefs, the worse the inhumanity.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:16:54
EID:38e2 22310a00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded306
-> On 13 Jan 97  02:07:58, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa 

RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan.  :) :)

Jd> Where do you get it?...I've tried EVERY Italian grocery store
Jd> around here, and NONE of them carry it!

It could be because it comes from the Netherlands...  

... Edam is not a Dutch Cheese, it's "made" backwards.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:20:26
EID:358d 22310a80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded3da
-> On 15 Jan 97  00:25:59, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa 

GP> this, the atheists vs the Todds.   It was a flame war, folks.  Why
GP> is everyone getting upset about us giving as good as we get?  When

DW> "Engineering, Conn. Damage report."

DW> "Yer up to yer damned asshole in water, Conn! The fucking *bilge*
DW> *pumps* just abandoned ship - I distinctly heard 'em say "T'hell with

LOL!  

DW> tub lists any more, we'll be eligible for service in the Australian
DW> Navy! What the fuck do you think the damage report is?! Game over,

As a remake to _The Enemy Below_, it should be definitely done 
as a comedy and renamed _The Enema Below_.  

... "Fascinating," said Spock, watching Kirk's lousy acting.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Christian Hedemark
|Sub:  Pray Contest
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:24:39
EID:b831 22310b00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded4d7
-> On 14 Jan 97  01:43:04, Christian Hedemark got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC>You aren't very sure about your god's alignment, are you.

CH> Believe it or not... I was contemplating this verse earlier tonight,
CH> while at the supermarket. (somewhere between the eggs, cheese, yogurt,
CH> and ice cream)

I always have my theological insights when choosing the checkout 
line with the cutest cashier.  


CH> In the Lord's Prayer, this is a facet that has had others wondering
CH> too: "why might God lead us into temptation?"
CH> ^^^^
CH> God does not, and would not, lead us into temptation.  It is only the

God any evidence to show that he wouldn't?   After all, Moses had 
to hit the rock twice to get water from it.  And, for doing so, 
he was denied entrance to Canaan.  And, god promised Moses that 
he would go into Canaan.  


... Living begins when you doubt everything that came before. - Socrates
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:28:17
EID:4663 22310b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded5b1
-> On 14 Jan 97  17:40:41, Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa 

DC> Nice to see you found your way back into the fray!

EM> I missed y'all. Going without for nigh onto a month was very
EM> trying for a dedicated shit-disturber with very few other

I'm setting up an emergency Holysmoke feed network.  It will 
work for other Echoes, of course, but it's damned hard to 
keep up in this Echo, for sure!  

EM> -!- PPoint 2.00

I've dropped that in favor of my new setup.  Not fully 
straight forward, however, I'm finally able to use BW 
again as my OLR.  


... Just say "NO" to repressive, patriarchal religious systems.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 17 Jan 97  01:31:44
EID:df3a 22310be0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ded680
-> On 15 Jan 97  20:58:04, David Worrell got back to Dan Ceppa 

DW> a hidden file, then created a short file with a few nonsense
DW> characters as the new, compressed file. When you ran the
DW> decompression, it simply copied the hidden file back to the original
DW> file name. 

That explains it!  I saw a lot of traffic on how it worked so 
well for the person who "archived" the original file but 
they weren't able to decompress it when sent.  

Nasty joke, but funny, nonetheless.  

... What's the sound of Staal walking around the doublewide? Putzputzputz
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 123/67 302 43 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Native Americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:44:14
EID:dfcd 22303d80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dddce7
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32dbf4be
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to ROBERT:

TE>>> Not all of us are like you J.J.....I mean when your parents
TE>>> dumped you off a the local orphanage, for being a freak of
TE>>> humanity, they really didn't know that you would be so hurt
TE>>> by it. I feel so sorry for your parents.

RC>> On a scale of 1 to 10, this flame has a 0.03 rating.

GT> Hey, she's new here.   These things take practice.

She'll get it.  She's a smart kid.

RC>> Don't you have any goofy pagan curses to fling about?

GT> 1} May you get exactly what you deserve.
GT> 2} May you come to the attention of those in authority over you.
GT> 3} May your life never be dull.

GT> There you go.    Those three should suffice for quite a while.    Ta.

I liked my answer better, but I think it goes:

May you live in interesting times.
May you come to the attention of those in authority over you.
And may you get EVERYTHING you deserve.

Wonder if I could translate that into Muslim and have Literah go and say
that to Mick.  If only for the horrified look on his face when someone else
spoke Muslim in Woodland Park.  

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Bother!" said Pooh, "It's your husband and he has a gun.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:47:15
EID:9134 22303de0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dddd28
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32dbf5fc
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Dan:

GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Dan
Ceppa
GT> whisper furtively to Tiger Eyes something about Personal jabs:

TE>>> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes

DC>> Just another trick the Indians used to help get their bounty
DC>> from the white men.  The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC>> not white men, but other Indians.

GT> And which they learned from the French.   Actually, she only scalps
GT> fundies, and that's only to see if there's anything inside.    No luck
so
GT> far.

It's amazing how many atheists have argued with her intro and sigs lines.
. . I thought that was a fundy thing.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... I am amazed your knuckles don't bleed when you walk.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Naked rituals
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:48:21
EID:2913 22303e00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dddde8
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32dbf79a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Glen!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Glen say to Gwenny:

GtP>> We are pretty casual about it here.  We talk about alot of religions.
GtP>> I'd say the closest they get to indoctrinization is that I tell them
GtP>> to figure it out for themselves.  I don't ever say, "this is the right
GtP>> way".  Rather I say, "I think perhaps", or "According to the beliefs
GtP>> of . . ."  At this point both boys are agnostic.  Starfire is really
GtP>> 'into' paganism, but I think it's just because she gets to wear nifty
GtP>> robes and burn candles in her room. 

GT> Bruce may be agnostic.   (If so, why do my Asatru books keep disappearing
GT> into his room?   Can't be for the same reason that the biker mags do.)
GT> Matthew, though -- he's just 11.

So he can have more realistic gods in his D&D.  Actually, it has something
to do with school.  He either had to write a report or is taking a class
in mythology and got tired of the Greek deities.  I don't remember.

GtP>> Yep.  Matthew went through a brief phase where he said "I'm going
to
GtP>> be a Christian."  About the third time he said that, I offered to
find
GtP>> someone to take him to Sunday School.  Haven't heard a word about
it
GtP>> since.

GT> {good imitation of Boris Badenov evil chuckle}

Don't laugh too soon.  He's a creative kid.  He'll eventually find a way
to push our buttons.  Cutting off all his beautiful hair was a start. 

FR>>> True, and they understand the difficulties.  There is a strict
FR>>> dictate that photographs of naked children not be taken at Dragon
FR>>> Festival; in the hands of Christians they would be used for
FR>>> obtaining untold wealth -- in a number of ways.

GT> 'Sides which, Pagans wouldn't need to.    They could just come to High
GT> Reaches.{g}

?????

GtP>> There is a strict rule about photographing anyone without
GtP>> permission.

GT> Half of them don't show up on film anyway.{gg}



My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Butterfly crossing next five miles...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  holiday celebrations
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:52:28
EID:2107 22303e80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddde66
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d420f67f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>GTP>>> What exactly does mammon look like. . .maybe it would be easier
GTP>GTP>>> to get a likeness of mammaries and give them away. 

GTP>KW>> They do have some really nice breast forms out there.  Now, should
GTP>KW>> the lucky recipient be required to wear the prize?

GTP>> But, of course. 

KW> We'll have to give some thought to just the right 'containment device'
KW> to present the booby prize in--something nice and lacy and itchy. 

Should I get out my Frederick of Hollywood catalogues??

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... When a dream dreams the dreamer, the dream's the real.  -Gypsy
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Baubles
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:53:19
EID:5470 22303ea0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dddf1a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 6e9ec753
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>> You know, you're right!  I have been known to wear five or six
GTP>> necklaces, myself.  And I'm not a jewlry person.  Lady Soltahr wears
a
GTP>> dozen or more, plus a ring on almost every finger, three pairs of
GTP>> earrings, and a dozen bangles on each wrist.  And she never looks
GTP>> gaudy.  She looks mahr-velous, dahling.

KW> I'm not a jewelry type person, either, but you can usually find a
KW> moonstone or two someplace on me day to day .  Perhaps it's because
KW> we don't tend to go for the little tinkly pink ice sort of stuff?  Or
KW> because what we where tends to be interesting, handmade pieces rather
KW> than the stamped out Zale's junk?

Either or both.  Most of my jewlry was custom made by a friend. And I have
this great beading kit to make Egytian jewlry.

GTP>> So, do you prefer silver like most of the rest of us?    Could
we
GTP>> locate potential pagan women by their distain for gold?  

KW> But of course!  The only piece of gold that I wear is white gold--a
KW> plain but rather substantial handfasting ring.  I do have some other
KW> things in gold, but I never bother with them.  Anyway, gold doesn't
tone
KW> with my skin.

Silver isn't supposed to go with mine, but then I'm supposed to look bad
in black also.  I wear both and get lots of compliments.

KW> As for locating potentially pagan women, I don't think so.  From my
KW> personal observation it seems to work the other way around--the more
KW> pagan she becomes, the less gold she wears.

That's what I meant.  Another clue is patchouli oil. 

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... (A)bort (R)etry (T)hermonuclear Re-education
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Alignment list
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:56:13
EID:3558 22303f00
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dddf45
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org cbd80647
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>>   I am so happy I am finally hooked to IRC.  I had a great time
GTP>> last night.  Can't be there tonight.  They are doing maintenance type
GTP>> stuff to my server.  

KW> I should be on more regularly once everyone is back in school and this
KW> place calms down a bit.

Your place calms down??  Wanna come give me lessons.  

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Jesus loves you. But then again, so does Barney.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:57:02
EID:327a 22303f20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de053f
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a4766ba8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>> Wild and I did it the other way round.   We got handfasted and a couple
GTP>> days later decided the accountants would like it better if we made
it
GTP>> legal.  Our minister didn't even bother to anything but sign the
GTP>> papers.

KW> Because both families decided that they wanted to be there, we did have
KW> a ceremony--if only a civil one.  I had wanted to do it in a nice,
KW> pastel type suit, but the only thing that I could find was white
KW> brocade lace embellished tea length dress.   Everyone who knew
KW> me well found it sidesplittingly funny that I ended up getting 'married'
KW> in a white dress.

  I can imagine.  I was married in blue the first time, and Wild
and I both wore traditional Scots attire for our handfasting.  If we ever
get around to making our marriage real (we were only handfasted for a year
and a day over four years ago), I want High Renaissance.  An artist friend
designed an absolutely awesome Italian Renaissance (square neck so low it
shows the pentacle right above the nipple) gown.  And I know where there
is a gorgeous teal and ivory brocade that would really flatter my skin color.
Assuming we ever get around to it.

GTP>RH> KW>>> Especially if the pagan isn't willing to come out of the broom
GTP>RH> KW>>> closet to their extended family.

GTP>> Alot of folks around here do it that way.  Tiggy and Bruce will be
GTP>> handfasted, for a year and a day, sometime in the next year.  Then,
GTP>> when Bruce is finished with school, they will make it legal and do
the
GTP>> family thing for her original family (since she's my kid now).

KW> We're seeing more and more semi public handfastings down here, skipping
KW> the whole wedding/courthouse thing.  I officiated at one last summer
KW> held in the municipal rose garden that was just beautiful.

You are an ordained minister, too, then??  We are supposed to be doing a
skyclad one soon.  I better call her and see what's happening with that.

GTP>KW>> Again, why do you assume that as a pagan and a witch, that I'm
GTP>KW>> doing something illegal, or doing anything that would place me
in
GTP>KW>> more danger of that meat grinder than any xtain?

GTP>> Because your ARE pagan. . .it stands to reason you are evil.

KW> But of course--we aren't doing it 'right'.

Of course not, no one is getting a jail sentence.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... What kind of world is it where the reality is weirder then the satire?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  The Alignment List    01/
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:03:25
EID:b526 22304060
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde0e9
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4558f35d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Ronald:

RV>> You expected a women to get it right.??....the 1'st time ?
RV>> Dream on.........................

RV>> { Harpy shield in place & tested }
RV>> [ Pies bounce off/avoid chocolate base materials ]

KW>   After all, we're used to dealing with men.  We're used
to
KW> things not working on the first try.


Touche!
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Holysmoke convention
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:05:24
EID:7d78 223040a0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde17b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b7a65bba
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>DM> KW>>> Or team up with others of us who cant stand to sleep in
GTP>DM> KW>>> nightclothes!

GTP>DM>>> Ah, that would be me.

GTP>DM>>> (Lucky me!)

GTP>KW>> Well, that'll make three (four?  I assume that Glen will be there,
GTP>KW>> too) in the clothing optional room. 

GTP>> Yeppers, he will.  And possibly two of our yougins. But they'll
GTP>> probably want their own room so they can cruise the guys.   I will
GTP>> definitely have to tatoo Suzanne. 

KW> Maybe we'll need a clothing optional floor .

There's an idea.

KW> But, then, how will we keep the horny xtians out?

Hmmmm, an interesting problem.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... There are *FOUR* lights! Picard
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:06:36
EID:46aa 223040c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde1aa
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e9758be6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Gwenny:

GTP>RS>>> Live in fear, Gwenny.  Apparently Wilbur has balls enough to
GTP>RS>>> want to kick some ass . . . 

GTP>KW>> Someone in that marriage needs them.

GTP>>   Maybe David could loan Jimmy a Twinkie.

KW> Now, calm down, Gwen.  He's a product of social programing.  You can't
KW> blame him for being a lemming.

  True, which ever one you are talking about. 

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Few things are as painful as the truth realized too late.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  blast
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:07:28
EID:bc80 223040e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde22f
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1969df25
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to Starfire:

S>> Actually, HS is basically a small gossip environs.  How many people,
S>> total, do you suppose have ever spent enough time in here to know about
S>> anyone else? Couple of hundred tops? Sure, it's there for anyone who
S>> wants to read it, but so is the society page (if they still have those
in
S>> your local paper).  Big deal.

KW> Yes, we do still have one, and it's pretty pathetic .

Woodland Park doesn't even bother.    I don't think any of the Colorado
papers have anything like I remember as a child.

KW> Yes, this is a village, with all of the social interactions and gossip
KW> that you see in a village.  People travel through, some stay a while
KW> and then hit the road, other's settle in and call it home.  As people
in
KW> the States by and far don't live in small groups, we will manufacture
KW> them.  Holysmoke is just such a manufactured community--in just the
same
KW> way that a good Coven is a 'manufactured' family.

Because we need that feeling of belonging.  Even the fundies here probably
have that feeling. . .they know exactly where they stand in the echo heirarchy
and it is comforting.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Oh dear! I think reality is on the blink again...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Black lipstick
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:10:06
EID:a1d9 22304140
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde575
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Gwenny:

D>> We had a student expelled because he used the word "fuck" in front of
a
D>> teacher. His exact words were "fucking bathroom"; it wasn't even used
as
D>> an insult to anyone.

GTP>> Entirely too many people allow their buttons to be pushed by
GTP>> words.  "Fuck" is only a word.  Just like "piss" which used
GTP>> to be socially acceptable.  All the teachers do is reinforce
GTP>> the idea that it is okay to over react to something someone
GTP>> says.  It's not much of a leap to stabbing someone for a
GTP>> word. SSSHEESH!

D> Everywhere I go, I notice people who overreact to words. I was on a local
D> chat board the other day, and some guy didnt like something I had said,
D> and called me a moron. Pointing out to him that I said it that way on
D> purpose, I called him a moron. He then told me that at the next GT (or
D> GTG or whatever you call them) he was going to beat me up.

  Pagans are a little more civilized than that.  I remember a few
years ago I had a huge war (via PODS) with a local pagan (hey, he posted
not only my real name but my home phone and address and listed me as an
officer of an organization he was starting--and orgainization I had said
I would not join). Massive, to the point that I still will not answer messages
from him.   It got so bad that when he went in the hospital to have a
triple bypass, his wife (not a pagan) blamed me and threatened to come and
beat me up. . .she was supported by her Christian friends. But the two of
us didn't allow ourselves to deteriorate into threats and when we were forced
to be in the same place after, we did not bring it up.

D> It's teachers, parents, the media, etc. Society in general.

D> Kinda like a debate rules thing that's posted in Thump_It! from time
D> to time (donno if they post it in here or not).. One of the rules was
D> to psychoanalyze your opponents words. "Blah used the word 'zuccini in
D> his/her post, therefore s/he has a case of penis envy."

 Like I said before, the first time a saw one, the only thing I
could think of was "What do they do with it when they are using it??"

GTP>> Actually, there are applicable stereo-types.   It's just
GTP>> the kind that get swept under the carpet to protect the
GTP>> family's rep. 

D> Well, there's always stereotypes, just most people I've ever spoken
D> indepth to about the subject make comments that boiled down to:
D> Everyone who commits a crime comes from a broken home or bad environment.

I disagree.  I believe that some people will resort to crime regardless
of their upbringing.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... The universe is not a friendly place.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Black lipstick
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:23:29
EID:09c5 223042e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde658
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Gwenny:

GTP>> Bruce wears all black most of the time, but what are they
GTP>> going to do about it. He's the first string heavy weight
GTP>> wrestler, ranked fourth in the state last year.    Last
GTP>> year the fundy athletics tried to get him to join their
GTP>> group. (They used food to entice him. . .a fancy breakfast
GTP>> once a week.)  After politely refusing their advances for a
GTP>> month or so, he started wearing the biggest pentagram he

D> A couple students from a local Baptist church tried to get me to attend
D> services, until I went public about my Paganism. They dont bother me
D> anymore.

Good.  I don't understand the need to harass people into going to church.
Can't they read their own scriptures??

GTP>> could find to school.  They haven't bothered him since. One
GTP>> teacher did give Suzanne (aka Starfire) some grief about her
GTP>> pentacle, but he is gone (he was a stupid teacher--thought
GTP>> Pompei was a volcano) to teach at a xtian school.  And I've
GTP>> made it clear that the next teacher who messes with her
GTP>> because of it will face a lawsuit.

D> None of the teachers here say anything to me about any of my appearance
D> or behaviour. I kinda have a reputation for being a wierdo at my school.

Most everyone likes Bruce, only a few try to bother him.

FR>>> Bizarre behavior, really...  tossing someone out of school due
FR>>> to the color of her lipstick.  As if the public education
FR>>> system wasn't already a mess.
D>> Imagine what would have happened if it wasnt lipstick -- if she had
a
D>> birthmark or whatever on her lips alone, making them look black? Think
D>> they'd kick her out then?

GTP>> They'd put her in a handicapped program or something.

D> Which would just as stupid as kicking her out, if not more stupid.

School is stupid.  Sorry, but it's true.  I don't see my kids learning anything.
It was really highlighted last summer after we watched "Brave Heart" and
Bruce was talking to his lady about it.  He finally got frustated because
she didn't know anything about Scots history and asked, "Didn't they teach
you anything in school?"  She replied, "Did you learn it in school."  He
paused for a moment and the sheepishly admitted that "My mom taught it to
me."

GTP>> ... Is there life after deja you?

D> That's bad. ;)

Thank you.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Atheists have no one to talk to at orgasm.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  The Alignment List    01/
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:27:06
EID:1678 22304360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde686
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Gwenny:

D>> Hm. David hasnt presented that image as of yet in Thump_It! (Memphis
D>> local religdebate).. I'll have to watch him. 

GTP>> Ah, he's just trolling.  Don't take anything I say about
GTP>> Tennessee to heart. 

D> Hey, I wasnt born here, and I dont claim it. 

Good for you.  Where were you born??

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Massachusetts - Fighting again to keep our civil Rights
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Pray Contest
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:27:41
EID:1da0 22304360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde6c4
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a3
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Gwenny:

CP>>> How is that possable? Either you belive in God or you don't!
DW>>> Ah! You meant "... are you an atheist or a theist?"
DW>>> The answer is still neither, though.
D>> Could the answer be.. Agnostic?
GTP>> TROLL.

D> What's this? David's a troll? ;)

Yep.  He just tries to get people upset.

GTP>> Honestly, you'll find that many of us won't commit to a
GTP>> belief system.  It keeps it more simple.  If no one knows
GTP>> what you believe, no one can tease you about it. 

D> Must make it really easy to win debates. 

Makes it alot easier to take any side you want.  Should have seen it a year
or so ago when I was arguing that Mormons really were Christians and using
the BoM as evidence.  

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Modem not found:  (A)bort (R)etry (G)oto bed?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Thanks
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:28:48
EID:8682 22304380
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde731
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Gwenny:

D>> Snort.. Snicker.. As far as I've seen, he has yet to comment in
D>> Thump_it! about when I let good 'ol Trent (resident fundy) in on my
D>> little secret: I'm bi and it wasn't a choice.. Trent has this affinity
D>> for ignoring first hand facts.. (He's claimed a multitude of times that
D>> bi/homosexuality is a choice.. Odd.. Wasn't a choice for me..)
GTP>> Oh, I don't think he's bi.  I'm just flaming him, accusing
GTP>> him of not getting any sex.  

D> I was keeping along with the joke. 

Oops.  Okay. 

D> (and making use of a convenient moment to make my stance clear to
D> whoever reads me)

Maybe we should add "sexual orientation" to the alignment list. 

GTP>> "Bother!" said Pooh as his batteries died just moments before
GTP>> climax.

D> Stolen! Stolen stolen stolen!



My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... I tried to drown my sorrows, but the suckers learned how to swim.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Domino
|Sub:  Christ-Like / Contradictions / Species behavior
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:30:44
EID:a223 223043c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde76e
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dae11a6
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Domino!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Domino say to Fredric:

D> Why didnt you just say, "I agree" ?

dom>> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
FR>> And contradicts that claim repeatedly.

D> References, please. Don't give me threats of damnation. A threat does
D> not nullify free will. You can still choose to go against the threat
D> and suffer the consequences.

  Frederick is an atheist who likes pagans.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Friendly fire -- ISN'T!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  Quote
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:34:01
EID:622d 22304440
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde8a1
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 6ef02b01
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, John!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
John say to David:

MB>> If I must post the entire PRIVATE exchange

DW>> Now you sound like Al.

DW>> First Jesse, now Al. Who will you try to imitate next, Appleton?


JB> It's always interesting to watch the anti-fundies attacking each other.
JB> Indicates perhaps they're attacking the fundies for no better reason
JB> than entertainment.  Seems when there're no fundies around to attack,
JB> the wolves turn on each _other_.  Figures....

Nope, it just proves that our side has assholes, too.    And because
there are fewer of them, they have REAL assholes. 

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... I ['d] My Dog. I ['d] My Cat.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Kali of the Pooh-bears (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  Al S.; Warring Christanic
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:38:01
EID:2395 223044c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dde967
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 14e7ff66
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, John!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
John say to David:

DW>  DW>>> Coming from a pagan, that's awfully rich.

DW>  DW>>> I think I need an insulin shot, in fact.

RV>> You know of course, too much insulin, will put you in a
RV>> comma. Shit ...... then you will go fundy on us.

DW>> According to my latest targets, I've already gone fundy. :)

JB> Nah.  Attacking one's own does not necessarily indicate collaboration
JB> with the enemy.

I pointed out that he was using fundy tactics:  arguing with tag and sig
lines, misquoting, underquoting, arguing with statements that hadn't been
made, etc. It's only fair, if we get Michael, we should give 'em on in return.
  Thing is, doesn't seem like they want him.

JB> Besides, your writing ability suggests you'd be best stuck in a
JB> "comma"
JB> (one of those short pauses between instances of balderdash).



My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... A friend is the present you give yourself....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:42:46
EID:38b3 22304540
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddea7b
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 03fbebdc
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Glen:

GT>> I can _guarantee_ you that the divine Pooh-bear does _not_ hate men
GT>> (except, perhaps, for ignorant, misogynistic fundy men and a couple
of
GT>> alleged atheists so moronic that they might as well be fundies), and
GT>> is definitely much better qualified for deity-hood than a certain
GT>> ignorant, sadistic, death-obsessed desert bully-boy that I could
GT>> name.)

JS> Excuse me? Like any other human born under the sun other than Jesus
JS> Christ, I nor she am qualified to be deified.

I've had a number of men express opinions to the contrary, however, you
will never have the opportunity to find out first hand exactly what it is
that makes me "divine". 

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:44:47
EID:6a52 22304580
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddeb2c
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 6568f5c2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jim!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jim say to Glen:

GT>>> I wasn't pagan when I got divorced.  That is what he meant.  My
GT>>> divorce fall into Christian stats.

JS>> Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.

GT>> Why not -- it is.   Or are you as completely ignorant of their
GT>> theology as you are of so many other things?

JS> No. Typically wrong again, pagan boy. They hold the teachings of Joe
JS> Smith on a par with true devine scripture (The BIble). That puts them
JS> outta the ball park.

Joe wrote theirs, Andy wrote yours.  I see.

JS>> No, Wild said you were not married before. (that he knew of no pagan
JS>> divorced people) I knew you were married before.

GT>> That's right, fundy boy - try to pin your own lies and blatant
GT>> displays of ignorance on me when you get caught out -- again.

JS>  Nope. You said there were no divorved pagans. Your wife proves _YOU_
to
JS>  be the liar. 

GT>> You're a shining example of your 'Christian faith'.

JS>  Yes. Thankyou.

As we have both pointed out to you, I was not pagan when I got divorced.

JS>> ... Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. (1 The 5:21)

GT>> Which is one reason why we get so many refugees from Christianity.

JS>  You really are a putz. 'So many refugees from Christianity'. I look
at
JS>  you and laugh!

Good trick.  What else do you see in your crystal ball.


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Westley and I are joined by the bonds of love.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   DAVID RICE
|Sub:  cheese whiz
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:47:52
EID:cb70 223045e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddeba4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, DAVID!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
DAVID say to GWENNY:

GTP>> And he's too ashamed to show his face, because he
GTP>> knows we are right.  BTW, I have had a
GTP>> standing invitation to all deities to come to
GTP>> dinner at my house. Now reservation necessary, but
GTP>> it risks having to eat Wild's cooking.  So far
GTP>> the only thing approaching deity (besides myself,
GTP>> of course) to have shown its face is CHAOS. But
GTP>> that could just be a side effect of four dogs, four
GTP>> cats, four kids, a baby and three tvs.

DR> ONLY the god Chaos?! That's remarkable. Around my place
DR> the god Discord shows up now and then, even though he is
DR> never invited. Then there's Lilith, who shows up once
DR> or twice a night.

Well, there is some evidence that Coyote, Eris, and Loki have a time-share
condo in the same place (on another continuum) as our livingroom.  I'm thinking
of inviting them all to take a trip to Focus on the Phallus.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Danger!  **Attention Span Exceeded!**
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:54:06
EID:4d63 223046c0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dded01
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Roger!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Roger say to Katherine:

KW>> Uhhhh, announce that you know the one, true way to pronounce
KW>> 'athame'?? -!-

RH> I assume that's an inside joke, based on the fact that nobody
RH> knows?

Yep.  It's an ongoing theological debate. 

RH> There's a big article in today's Camera on the witches of Boulder.
RH> Sounds like we're infested with them....

There'll be two more on Saturday.  Wild and I will be up there visiting
a catholic religious supply store to get cheap candles. 

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... A ferret is just a stretch-rat.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  MORE TODDLINGS, NEWS
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:55:26
EID:8745 223046e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dded3a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Roger!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Roger say to Glen:

RH>> But I've been wondering; wouldn't it be faster for you people
RH>> to shut off the computer and simply talk directly to one another?

GT>> They aren't here to talk to each other, Rog.   They're here to see
GT>> first hand what Christians are really like, and to learn how to deal
GT>> with them appropriately.

RH> I realize that, but I usually see them talking to Gwenny instead.

They are looking for intelligent conversation, who else would they talk
to??? David Worrell????  ROFL

Just kidding.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... "Bother," said Pooh, as he called that 'special' KGB number.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   J.J. Hitt
|Sub:  MY SUMMER WEEKEND
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:56:11
EID:deab 22304700
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32dded51
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73b0a723
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, J.J.!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
J.J. say to Katherine:

KW>> This will differ from state to state.  But there is always
KW>> someway around the rules for male-female couples.  It's the
KW>> gay and poly people who have troubles.

JJH>  Hmmm... I think I saw this one before.
JJH>  You may be dupeing.

JJH>  Of course, I could just be DejaVuing all over again.

No.  I'm getting dupes, too.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Wicca on Sesame Street" is brought to you by "Blessed B.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Roman Empire - Xtianity and lead poisoning (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Exemplifying examples
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:57:29
EID:b56e 22304720
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddedaf
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbbb53
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jan say to Gwenny:

GP>> You wanted this message to go to my husband.  David neglected to
GP>> quote his entire statement those.  It should have concluded
GP>> "garner more respect than the shouters."  Bakker and Swaggart
GP>> fall under the heading of shouters.

Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
Jd> Bakker, on the other hand, is a victim of great injustice.
Jd> He was to christendom what Homer Simpson is to Suburbia.
Jd> Bakker's philandering, Tammy's tears, dwarf-like Timmy, and the
Jd> airconditioned doghouse were every bit as endearing as the Adams Family.
Jd> They were a great loss to televison comedy, and their downfall was
Jd> caused by Swaggart's jealousy of their success. So what if they
Jd> 'overbooked' their theme park a little - don't the airlines do it all
Jd> the time?




Jd> Actually, I'm working on a commercial product that may help in their
Jd> comeback....it's a painting, on velvet, of Tammy Faye. It cries real
Jd> tears, while Roy Orbison's "Crying" plays continuously from internal
Jd> speakers. Finding waterproof blue mascara is a stumbling block to market
Jd> readiness, though.

No, no. . .you need an Elvis song.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Visualize World Orgasm.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Pass the Cup of crimson wonder (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Idiot postings
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:58:39
EID:3f38 22304740
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddede5
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbc0f2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jan say to Gwenny:

GtP>>>> I noticed.  Why don't sysops put new users on HOLD for a week or
GtP>>>> so and check to see if they have the brain to be allowed to post
GtP>>>> at all.  Hey, I may ask Wild if he can design something like
GtP>>>> that.

MG>>> Because many sysops are just as stupid as their users.

GP>> Yeah, we've had a couple slip through.

Jd> Shees...if the stupid were excluded, there'd be no fundees here, and
no
Jd> fun!



My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Data becomes vilently ill with a computer virus.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:01:22
EID:c4df 22304820
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddeec4
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dc53a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Jan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Jan say to Dan:

TE>> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes

DC>> Just another trick the Indians used to help get their bounty
DC>> from the white men.  The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC>> not white men, but other Indians.

DC>> Deal with it.  It's your history and ancestory.

Jd> Wasn't it the whites who taught scalping to the Indians?

The French did and offered a bounty of English scalps.  The English may
have also offered a bounty for awhile.  That's a little past my favorite
part of history.


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... The Lean, Mean, Reading Machine...
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  Sola Scriptura
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:03:28
EID:07d3 22304860
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddf7e6
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32DB10C4
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Ronald!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Ronald say to Gwenny:

GTP>> Coming to terms with who we are is very important.  I'm sure she's
glad
GTP>> you male. 

RV> She does say that now and then. 



GTP>> Much as I hate to admit that males and females are that different,
I
GTP>> admit there are things that only a woman can give another woman. 
Is it
GTP>> nurture? it inherent in gender?

RV> For sure the same information is processed differently, that and how
RV> socity forces us all, into certain modes. Other then brest feeding,
some
RV> males are as good as the female to the nurture bit. I don't feel either
RV> are any better then the other to nurture a child, once it's out. To
RV> know a life is growing within your body, is something no male could
RV> understand, that could be a difference to those who have had a child.

Men have to learn, with women it seems instinctive (I say, after watching
both my son and his lady learn to deal with a new baby.)

GTP>> I have no idea.  I can say that the only men I have
GTP>> met who were able to be "one of the girls" were gay.  Of course, I
love
GTP>> men

RV> I've hear that time and again. Perhaps since the male not hitting on
the
RV> female for sex, has something to do with it.Not likely will she be
RV> forced into a sex act. Compare notes on attracting a man  hell
RV> if i know.

Perhaps.  Maybe without the dance of sex  a greater rapport can be established.

GTP>> way they are.  I often find that I perfer men to talk to anyway.
GTP>> There's on much "girl talk" I can take.  I wanna talk about comets
and
GTP>> engines and computers. 

RV> Joyce is somewhat like that, doesn't want to talk about kids or house
RV> keeping. Wants more interesting things to chat about. I explain my
RV> understanding of various science ideas, and she explains the care and
up
RV> keep of cars and trucks.

Cool!

GTP>> It isn't silly to us.  I was terrified of computers five years ago.
GTP>>  I have said before, I've had some bad experiences with
GTP>> mainframes.   I S worry about hitting the wrong button and
GTP>> destroying my pc.

RV> I got her passed the fear of the wrong button, being pushed. It's more
RV> then that, just lack of interest? She's read over my shoulders and just
RV> class it all as silly as shit. She, needless to say , doesn't buy
RV> into a god idea and any who is stupid enought to believe in gods, should
RV> do the world a favor and kill themselfs.

  Sounds like at least one of my kids.

>>RV> It's not a case where spelling and context isn't the best.When she's
>>RV> here i use her ideas on how to say things, i want to say, and how
to
>>RV> spell words. If i want her to really have a good laught, i let her
>>RV> correct my replys.

GTP>>   Dear, that could be a life's work.  I'm glad she helps.

RV> True enought.  She does the correcting for her son also. Must
RV> be a male thing.

I don't know.  I have to correct my daughter's spelling.

GTP>RV>> She's a gem but boy in some areas. I just don't understand. 

GTP>> If we totally understood each other, where would be the adventure,
huh?

RV> It's getting bad though. In some areas a 'word' is all that is needed
RV> and the other can complete the thought. Scarry, we understand each other
RV> too much.

That happens at our house alot.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Getting books in the mail makes my day a little brighter.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  Warring Christanic Factio
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:41:53
EID:1130 22304d20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddf822
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32DB10C5
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Ronald!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Ronald say to Gwenny:

>>>>RV>  I'm afraid by the time you got finish with the spook, there
>>>>RV> wouldn't be enought left to jump on. I'm only a little runt, there
>>>>RV> would be lots left over for you to bat around.

>>GTP>> Oh, well, I can share.  We could even work him over together.  I'll
>>GTP>> hold hi you.

>>RV> Sounds good to me both can have fun.

GTP>> And when you're done, we could see if a witch's athame REALLY can
GTP>> affect th spirit world.

RV> Then you would see me pull a Rice and vanish in a puff of smoke. 

I was gonna stab the holy spook, not you.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... ADVISORY: This product may spontaneously disappear.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  How many people read the Christian bible?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:44:51
EID:820d 22304d80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddf92a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dc3b33
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:

GTP>> According to an article in the Denver Post, there isn't anywhere on
GTP>> the planet that is all Christian or even in the majority any more.
GTP>> Of course, the article was about fundies, so it may have just used
GTP>> the numbers of them.  I could have sworn there were at least a
GTP>> few Catholic countries.

AS>  Uh...not doubting you, Gwenny, but I am seriously doubting that article.
AS>  There are indeed countries where the majority are overwhelmingly Catholic.
AS>  Maybe it just mean evangilical Fundamentalists, the "born again" types,
or
AS>  something.

That is why I mentioned that it was about fundies.  Most fundies don't consider
Catholics, Mormons, Adventists, etc to be True Christians. . .until it's
time to consider stats.    I think the article was tongue in cheek. 
It SEEMED tobe applauding the evangelizing efforts of locals missionary
groups, but it IS the Denver Post.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... The trouble with political jokes is that they get elected.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Just say NO!
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:47:29
EID:ca9d 22304de0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddf9cb
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dc3b37
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Jan:

Jd>> What kind of pathetic god is this you suck up to? Any human can

AS>  I wasn't aware I "sucked up" to any god. However, Aphrodite and Freya
I
AS>  might give consideration to...

And I am Freya's earthly representative for my hearth.    I expect to
see some good "sucking" up. ROFL


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Jesus saves! He only takes half damage from Cthulu's attack!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  Pray Contest
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:49:47
EID:6a4f 22304e20
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfa5e
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dc3b3a
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to Gwenny:

GTP>> Honestly, you'll find that many of us won't commit to a belief
GTP>> system. It keeps it more simple.  If no one knows what you believe,
GTP>> no one can tease you about it. 

AS> And SOME of us are brave enough and honest enough to say what they
AS> believe without any quibbling. (Do I hear a voice from the Peanut
AS> Gallery saying, "Stupid enough?" "Masochistic enough?")

Um, it wasn't me. 


AS> Just teasing, Gwenny. Yours is probably the wiser course. I just like
AS> a good fight.

And I get plenty of good fights.  Not committing to one belief allows me
argue AGAINST what I believe.  Honest.  I've done it occassionally.  And
very occassionally, it has made me really rethink my position. (NO female
dominant jokes, okay. )

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Australia, where going down under offers up a whole new meaning :)
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Not shampoo, the real Pooh! (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  truth
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:52:34
EID:3bf3 22304e80
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfb29
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dc3b3d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Al!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Al say to J.J.:

JH>> Watch out! He's from a "warrior tradition".

JH>> Just like Walter Bartoo is.

AS>  You go back far enough, we all have a "warrior tradition". I don't
paint
AS>  myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my Celt,
AS>  English, or Germanic ancestors did.

Wild is referring, I believe, to the fact that we are not "white-light-channeling,
crystal-wienie, bunnies-and-light, oh-you-unevolved-barbarian New Agers.


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Sarah Jane, you keep thinking I'm DEAD!-- Fourth Doctor.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Quentin Fai
|Sub:  Equal rights
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:55:56
EID:b931 22304ee0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfb8a
REPLY: 1:358/1 41ee89f1
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to Gwenny:

GtP>> Was a real chicken cutlet or a frozen one.  I think you risk more
GtP>> illness from prepared foods.  I hope you are feeling better.  Got
the
GtP>> mail, gotta read.  It came in while I was IRCing. 

QF> It was a frozen one. I don't really want to see another frigging chicken
QF> cutlet again as long as I live.

Don't blame.  Get some real food, dear.

QF> Oh... I'll finally be able to join everyone on IRC because I have my
QF> SLIP account. Happy Happy Joy Joy! :)

I know.  Saw you.  Sorry I always seem to be leaving when you get there.
I haven't looked at Bud yet.  I fell asleep before Tigger was done playing.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Show me some more of this Earth thing called kissing. --Lister.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Quentin Fai
|Sub:  Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:58:41
EID:2736 22304f40
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfc2b
REPLY: 1:358/1 d6340e3f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Quentin!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Quentin say to George:

RS>>> So you're saying Jerkers For Jesus should disband?

GM>> You seem to have a fixation on masterbation.  But then I dont't
GM>> suppose many women want to get to close to you, eh?

QF> No... But that's because he's gay.

In my experience, a man being gay has nothing to do with what poor, misguided
females want and everything to do with what he wants.  (Spoken by a woman
who used to have a serious crush on a gay man)

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Beware a Borg-again Christian. Resistance to their evangelism is futile.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:59:55
EID:41c5 22304f60
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfc4b
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 15d1986d
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Rob!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Rob say to Gwenny:

GT> TE>> Your right mom, and really think that no one at all has the right
GT> TE>> to ju other people that they have not met personally. Not to
GT> TE>> mention that it none of our business anyway.
GT>>
GT>> Nice to see you here, luv.  We will end up being the best represented
GT>> famil here once Suzanne gets her point. 

RB> Egads!  It's a plethora of Poohs!

Yep, we're taking over.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Wesley Crusher, please report to airlock 5!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  More Toddlings, News at 1
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:00:13
EID:3b92 22305000
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfc8d
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 15d1986f
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Rob!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Rob say to Gwenny:

GT>> Hey, folks.   My daughters now have points and will be joining us in
GT>> the fr Let's have a hearty welcome for Stephanie (aka TigerEyes) and
GT>> Suzanne (aka Starfire). (Now we outnumber the Rices, even with the
new
GT>> brother.  Neenerneener)

RB> How does this affect the Cult of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits?
RB> Is it now a trinity?  Or some kind of divine six-pack?

We could have a trinity.  I'd have to be Crone, though.    Divine
six-pack, indeed.  

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems....
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:01:30
EID:da14 22305020
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfcb3
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 15d19871
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Rob!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Rob say to J.J.:

JH>  TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
JH>>
JH>> You mean those ignorant shits who never invented the wheel?
JH>> Or a written language?

RB> JJ Hitt, an equal opportunity offender. 

  Got him pegged, do you??

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... I take my pet lion to church every Sunday.  He has to eat!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Visualize the post-Christian era. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  cheese whiz
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:02:19
EID:b2ac 22305040
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfcee
REPLY: 1:280/76.0 15d19877
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Rob!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Rob say to David:

DW>> Even more hypocrisy from the goofy skyclad camp.

RB> See what happens when we don't have Michael Hardy to kick
RB> around anymore.

  So THAT'S what happened.  I wondered.
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Anyone can walk on water.  Learn where the rocks are.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The Point at Pooh Corner (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:03:40
EID:1fb3 22305060
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddfd6f
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0cfcbae7
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Marilyn say to ROBERT:

MB>> Gwen, this is an out-and-out lie, and the lying sack of shit
MB>> knows it. I TOLD HIM the reason I spoke up: it was because
MB>> he was ragging on the two of you about something you could do
MB>> nothing about.

RC>> People can do nothing about how comfortable or uncomfortable they
RC>> may feel about various trivial personal characteristics?

MB> No, Robert.  He was ragging on them about their daughter's
MB> weight, which is definitely something they have little (if
MB> any) control over.

As I said in another post, I could do what the Mormon did.  Starve her.
Abuse her emotionally.  Reject her based on a superficial characteristic
that does not define who she is.  I chose not to do so.  She is almost a
woman.  It is time for her to decide what she wants.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Jesus Christ, close the door!    Were you born in a barn?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Native Americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:08:19
EID:76ad 22305100
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddff1c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dc24b8
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Tiger:

DC> Get off of your high horse and recognize not what you think
DC> the American Indians were but what they did with what
DC> they had.  When you can accept that, you may learn something.
DC> It may not be what you expected to find, but it may not be
DC> as bad as you "thought" or "think".

Dan, she didn't start this.  She was defending herself on her second time
in the echo.  JJ started it arguing with her sig line.  She isn't even interested
enough in the subject to continue the argument and she told me so.  It's
a line from a song.  Wild asked her to think up something for a sig line
and she said how about that one.  My sig line is from a song also.   Why
is so much being made of this??

BTW, she is more likely to accept the reality of what Indians are since
she did grow up on a reservations and knows that Red men are just as likely
to be idiots as any other men.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... (a)bort, (r)etry, (W)hack the friggin thing.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Native Americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:12:21
EID:4fb5 22305180
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de0744
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dc258c
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Tiger:


TE>> gonorrhea-syphilis infected race comes to a land of friendly

DC> Got a clue as to the origin of syphilis?

It is likely that she is unaware of that tidbit.  It is rather a recent
discovery and she is only 21.  I'm sure they didn't teach it in school and
her degree is in interior design at a trade school with no liberal arts
programs.

DC> Check with Glodberg.  I'm sure you will find it's origins a
DC> bit different than what you think.

I'd wager that very few here are aware of it's real origins.  After all,
it looks like I'm the only one here who reads Omni (that where I read it)(seems
like I spend alot of time in dentists, optometrist, and doctor offices).
I wonder if Indians got it the same way the Europeans got gonorrhea (hey,
you have to give her points for spelling that one correctly. . .I usually
get it wrong)???   The DUs (Delta Upsilon) at my college made all
their pledges screw a sheep (and took pictures which were on display in
a photoalbum in the lobby of the frat house).  They all contracted it.

Only, as I recall, the first evidence was found in bear bones.  Gosh, it's
been a couple of years since I read it.  Got anything you could post.  
Maybe a websearch would turn up something, even if it couldn't find my virginity.


DC> Hopefully, you won't dismiss his answer asbeing from a person of
DC> "non-American Indian" origin.

She wouldn't.  She is a very reasonable young woman.  As I said, she was
merely defending herself from a fundy-like attack about her sig line. 
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an answer from her.  She has indicated
that she isn't here to defend her people.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Think For Yourself, Question Authority.  (TFYQA)
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  "flat earth" town
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:20:02
EID:476d 22305280
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de01f9
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0da68132
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Katherine!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Katherine say to David:

DW>> Silly me. I always thought school was to teach you how to learn. They
DW>> must have dropped that part.

KW> The sad thing, David, is that you well may be right about this part.
KW> Here in TX the aim of education is to pass a standardized test.

Bruce took the GED test in seventh grade  (tutor used it to evaluate his
progress).  He missed passing the test by one point.  Pretty sad, huh? 
A child who had not been in a public school for five years knew almost enough
to get his diploma.  Very sad.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... Hey, you have to BELIEVE in Satan to WORSHIP him!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Sue Alexander
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:25:39
EID:5136 22305320
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de0286
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32dc7e59
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Sue!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Sue say to Gwenny:

GtP>> Thanks, Sue.  I wondered if anyone had it still.  I really need to
GtP>> learn to save anything Bro Jim says to a file.  He will deny it
GtP>> later. 

SA>      I've been waiting for the chance to catch him on something like
SA> this.  I've warned him in the past that there are those who DO archive,
SA> and though my archives are a bit hard to wade through, I'll do it for
SA> him.  

And do you think he will address this post. NO!  He just keeps saying he
claimed I hadn't been married before because Wild said he didn't know any
divorced pagans.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub:  Gwenny's Virginity
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:27:07
EID:dbf2 22305360
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de039a
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2dc43011
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Rick!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Rick say to Gwenny:


RM> Good morning, Gwenny.

RM> Last night on #holysmoke, you mentioned something about losing your
RM> virginity a long time ago.  I offered to help you look for it.

RM> Today, I ran a search on MetaCrawler.  This internet search engine calls
RM> all the others well known search engines, and collates the results for
RM> you.

Oh, cool.  I need to see if I can find anything about the experiments on
cabbages that I am taking so much flack for from JJ.  One the broadest search
(plants) I got 17+ million hits.    But just doing "cabbage" only netted
me stuff on cabbage cultivation and pests.

RM> Here's what I got:

RM> -+--+--+--+--+--+-Begin Quote-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-

RM>             MetaCrawler Search Results

RM>             Query: gwenny's virginity



RM>        Collated Results: 0 references returned.


RM> Your search did not produce any results because none of the sources
RM> queried by MetaCrawler could find any information. The information you
are
RM> seeking may not exist or your query string may have been too specific.

RM> Please check your query to ensure that it is accurate. If you feel that
RM> these results are in error, please submit a bug report on our problems
RM> page.

RM>                          Home ú Configure ú About ú Problems

RM>                     webmaster@metacrawler.com

RM> -+--+--+--+--+--+--+---End Quote-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+---

RM> Looks like your virginity isn't just lost, it's gone for good.

ROFL laughing.  Oh no, I'll never be able to lose it again. 

RM> Or it never existed in the first place .

Oh, great.  My first schism.

RM> Take care.

Only if it is offered to me.  I never take anything without asking.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... If you love someone, cover her in whipped cream.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  truth
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:31:35
EID:6194 223053e0
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de0406
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 eafbcbb2
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, John!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
John say to Gwenny:

JB>> To all but the object, I suppose....

GT>> Agreed.  You, and now I, were the object of David's stupidity.  I was
GT>> hoping that David would be taken out by Marilyn, but she is too smart
GT>> to waste her time.  That leaves me and my girls.  I propose a trust.
.
GT>> .evil pagan to. . .Christian, right?  I invite you to insult David
and

JB> "Quantum nonlocal Panentheist."  (*chuckle*)  (All religions have some
JB> validity; science is the one field of universal, if formally limited,
JB> "truth."  The God most likely doesn't discriminate.)

Okay.   I'll take your word for it. 

GT>> JJ.  It won't make up for what they did to you, but it might be fun.
GT>> 

JB> Uh... Gwenny, I don't let my insult capability loose too often; it burns
JB> Ma Bell's lines, sizzles modems, fries computers and turns air deep
JB> blue.  Too powerful to use on such as David.  (*chuckle*)  Besides,
if I
JB> did that, it'd give him the one thing he desired most and hasn't
JB> achieved: clear evidence that he'd "gotten my goat."

You're right.  Why waste good energy on him.

JB>> "People laugh because if they didn't, they'd have to cry."
JB>> --paraphrase, Valentine Michael Smith; Stranger in a Strange Land

GT>> Pretty damn close paraphrase.

JB> Thanks.  I knew it contained the essence of Michael's discovery at the
JB> monkey cage.

I just reread that for the first time in two decades.  It's a totally different
book than I remember.

My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... "We've short jumped, and we're nowhere near a star." -- Lister
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: <> The Point at Pooh Corner <> Woodland Park, CO <> (1:128/203.2)
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|From: Gwenny the Pooh
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Carl Sagan
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:35:07
EID:b01a 22305460
MSGID: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32de04a2
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dc313b
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8271
Heilsa, Dan!

While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
Dan say to Gwenny:

GtP>> Good health or no, no one in family seems to last past 75.  What do
GtP>> you  think, should I try to die on the day before my 75th by crashing
GtP>> during a drag race that follows a week long orgy and mead swilling??

DC> No.  Wait until the day after and debunk them all!

What an idea.

DC> Happy car crash at 300+ MPH!

Thanks.


My skin, my bones, my heretic heart are my authority,
Gwenny


... WANTED - Enemy for NATO.  Will pay top dollar.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 164LM1
* Origin: First Church of Gwenny the Pooh's Tits (FidoNet 1:128/203.2)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  Xtians who do EVIL
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:53:00
EID:856d 22306ea0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32de81fc
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbc0f1
Here's what Jan Deboer said to Lee Woofenden about Xtians who do EVIL:

LW> The squeaky wheel gets the grease--or in our society, the press
LW> coverage. What newspaper is quick to report when a Christian or a
LW> Christian church--or anyone else, for that matter--does something
LW> really good?

JD> What christian church has EVER reported from the pulpit the truth
JD> of their history of corrupt popes, the inquisition, persecuting
JD> 'witches' etc. etc. ??

It happens more often than you might think.

Many churches recognize the sins of their past and are actively working
to
improve themselves--as well as to make amends for past wrongs that are still
affecting people. I recall reading that at one time the mainline churches
in
Canada issued a public apology for the way they had treated the native peoples
of Canada in the past, and made a commitment to work toward respecting them
and
their ways.

I can tell you that this sort of soul searching happens in my own
denomination--and yes, even from the pulpit of my church. Just this past
Sunday
the sermon included references to mistaken practices in the church's past.

Even the Catholic church--one of the worst offenders historically--has
"repented" of many of its past sins. Vatican II was a major break with past
tradition.

Of course, there are still reactionaries in the church who do not want to
look
at past wrongs. But I think that if you talked to various denominational
leaders, you would be surprised at how much awareness there is that the
church
has erred badly at various times in its history.

--Lee

... AGAIN? I'm ALWAYS in trouble!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)



--- PCBoard (R) v15.3 (OS/2) 5
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  so...now what?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:09:00
EID:0863 22307120
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32de81fd
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32da5a9f
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Mark Kimes about so...now what?:

DC> I asked him to perform the experiment. I even pleaded with him.
DC> Perhaps we could take a collection up and pay him?

Gee, Dan. You've done everything except tell us how the experiment is relevant
to the theory presented.

It's about time to take care of that little detail, don't you think?

--Lee

... Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)


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PATH: 101/525 330 330/204 176 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   John Brawley
|Sub:  A God of darkness?
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:12:00
EID:c57f 22307180
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32de81fe
John,

After replying to your recent message in which you mentioned God perhaps
having
the mind of a frog in the past, I came across a relevant piece while reading
Emanuel Swedenborg. This is from _Heavenly Secrets_ (_Arcana Coelestia_)
#8928.4. Swedenborg is explaining Exodus 20:21, which reads, "And the people
stood afar off; and Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was." Here
it
is:

Another reason why it says that Moses entered thick darkness
when he drew near God is that as their leader, Moses represented
the Israelite and Jewish people, who were in darkness regarding
deeper truths--darkness so thick that they were totally ignorant
of them. For they considered all of worship and everything
divine to consist in external things. This is why the divine was
for them thick darkness. For as everyone well knows, the divine
never dwells in thick darkness, but in light, since the divine
is light itself. When, therefore, the divine is called "thick
darkness," it describes what he is so far as those who do not
dwell in any light are concerned. For divine truths that compose
the light of heaven do not appear to them to be anything but
darkness, because they do not believe them--indeed, they deny
them. How the divine appears to anyone is determined by the
essential nature of the person's life and faith. Consequently,
he appears as light to those who are in the light, and as thick
darkness to those who are in thick darkness.

This is another way of saying what I replied to you--that perhaps God looked
like a frog because the _people_ had the mind of a frog, and could perceive
God
in no other way.

--Lee

... Lawyer + Godfather = An offer you can't understand.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)


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|From: Satan #2
|To:   Bill Wolff
|Sub:  Re: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 15 Jan 97  15:51:20
EID:91fc 222f7e60
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DDC056
BW> Hi Ronald... 
BW> 
BW>  RV> The bible also tells/shows, thats it's OK to rape women 
BW>  RV> who haven't knowen of man. 
BW> 
BW> Really? I thought I heard it all, but that is a new one on me. 

For those who never read the Holy Book, it is. 

++++rom: Bill Wolff++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ime: 01-11-97 11:25:07+++

+        I thought I heard it all, but that is a new one on me. Where  +

+does it say this? My personal favorite is the part where it shows     +

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The Holy Book. 

BW> My personal favorite is the part where it shows 
BW> that God Almighty isn't all seeing and knowing after all. 

So where is this minor mistake. 


BW> You know 
BW> the part where God decides to wipe out mankind through a flood and 
BW> he regretted creating mankind from the start. 

If regret, then why save any ? 


BW> he regretted creating mankind from the start. Well good golly, can't

BW> he ever do something right? 

God gave humans . . . I read the mind of God Al. What more do you wish ?

* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | BW> - Real True Christian -
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***-  From Beyond The Grave.  -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  goodbye
|Date: 15 Jan 97  20:36:00
EID:0c14 222fa480
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DDC058
KW>RV>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!"   [d&rg]
KW>RV>>>> JH>  GOURDS! GOURDS!  SQUASH HIM!
KW>RV>>>> DC>  GARRANDS!  GARRANDS!  SHOOT HIM!
KW>RV>>>> ML>  GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
KW>RV>>>> EV>  GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
KW>RV>>>> ML>  GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
KW>RV>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
KW>RV>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
KW>RV>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
KW>RV>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
KW>RV>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
KW>RV>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
KW>RV>>>> EM> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
KW>RV>>>> RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
KW>RV>>>> CJ> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
KW>RV>>>> RV>   GRID! GRID! CONTROL HIM!
KW>RV>>>> RV>   GASSING-1! GASSING-1! ELECTROLYSIS HIM!
KW>RV>CJ>CJ>>     GO-FERS! GO-FERS! GET HIM!
KW>RV>CJ> RV>     GROMMET! GROMMET!  INSULATE HIM!

KW>RV>CJ>        GLEEPS! GLEEPS! ZYRZY HIM!
KW>RV>          GOODLY! GOODLY! A_MOUNT HIM!
KW>RV>          GROAN! GROAN! SOUND HIM!
KW>  GROUND! GROUND! CENTER HIM! 
GROGGY! GROGGY! CONFUSE HIM!

* SLMR 2.1a * god believes in Mascochistic Behavior

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***-  From Beyond The Grave.  -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  .
|Date: 16 Jan 97  00:07:00
EID:c8db 223000e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DDC059
ML> AM> Have you quit beating your wife? Answer that.

ML>     Unnecessary, as it's obviously a "red herring" retort. I do not
ML>     beat my wife; therefore, it's an inane inquiry. Do you keep
ML>     worshiping a killer God? Why or why not? Is your daughter
ML>     *still*  deaf?

If you keep that up, schoolmarm Mini is going to be calling
you tactless also. 



~*~
When He supposedly said"let there be light" perhaps
He actually said "Let there be an SU(5) Yang-Mills theory with
all its gauge bosons, let the symmentry be broken down spontaneously
, and let all but one of the remaining massless gauge bosons
be sold into infrared slavery. That one last gauge boson is my
favorite. Let him rush forth to illuminate all my creations!"

From ....Fearful Symmetry.... page 232....
~*~


* SLMR 2.1a * never accept lemonade from a urologist

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***-  From Beyond The Grave.  -***- (1:221/1503)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Brett Johnson; jealou
|Date: 15 Jan 97  21:45:53
EID:1515 222fada0
MSGID: 1:221/203 20b16362
TID: GE/32 1.2
BJ> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of
bj> exclusivity.  This is the nature of man's relationship to
bj> God.  This is the ultimate meaning of the verse "you shall
bj> not have other gods besides me."
FR> 
FR> Just how many pencils do you go through "correcting" the Christian mytholog
FR> to fit your preconcieved notions, Brett?

...and so on...

FR> The mythologies specifically state that the Christian pantheon wishes
to ha
FR> no other gods ___BEFORE___ them, not "besides" as you would like to
pretend

Oh, I'm very much concious that the Bible speaks of "gods" on some occassions.
Both in speaking of men, and sometimes reffering to supernatural entities.

But I'm still a monotheist, and I'll state why.  You're probably asking
"how 
so", particularly with the above admission.

"Elohim", among other things, was a Hebraism to refer to a judge.  "The

Judges" of Israel, the civil/religious leaders of the Israelites, were 
sometimes called "gods".  Moses is in fact called, by the Lord, "as God
to the
Israelites."  

What we have to seperate though, from a power title, is the concept of 
"divinity".  What is it, that makes God "THE God", so to speak?

It has to do with His NATURE, which is different from other creatures, who
are
called "gods".  In fact He is the only being worthy of adoration, because
all 
other things, including the angels and powers and principalities, are created

beings, not matter how great.

I enjoy Psalm 82, as it expresses what I'm talking about.  Here you have
the 
Lord, and "gods".  Yet notice how "the gods" are mortal, where as the Lord
is 
not?  That they are in fact subject to the Lord.

TRUE Deity, and "the gods", are two entirely different things.  

To have "no other gods" before the Lord, is to have a proper perspective.

Also implicit in both the Torah, and in the Christian Scriptures, is the

denail of worship of anything "besides" the Lord.  

FR> It is this level of self-deception and dishonesty which is why the Christan
FR> death cult manages to remain one of the two most deadly evils on Earth.

I'm afraid your hostility, is simply blinding you to what it is that we

ACTUALLY believe.  While you cry aloud about our somehow impeeding your

freedom, it's been you thus far who has been badgering me.  In fact I inquired
as to why YOU are a polytheist, and in fact without the least bit of guile
or 
aggression.  I was actually curious...

silly me...

PAX

--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS  Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Brett Johnson: Liar
|Date: 15 Jan 97  21:51:55
EID:34c2 222fae60
MSGID: 1:221/203 20b16363
TID: GE/32 1.2
BJ> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort
bj> of exclusivity.  This is the nature of man's relationship
bj> to God.  This is the ultimate meaning of the verse "you
bj> shall not have other gods besides me."
FR> 
FR> Another true believer rewrites his mythologies any way he wants.

You owe me an apology Fredric.  Exodus 20:3, says "BESIDES me" in the New

American Bible.  Additionally, the following verses explicitly CONDEMN the
worship of anything other than God.

Even the NIV, indicates that "before/besides" are the two translations of
the 
text.  Obviously, the Hebrew is not as precise as our english.  Though the

septuagint is more precise.  Additionally, the CONTEXT better suits "besides",
as in the following verses after Exodus 20:3 expressly condemn the worship
of 
pagan gods, their idols, or of elements of nature.

You're just all too ready to jump down my throat Freddy...chill out a bit...

I'm not you're enemy.

PAX

--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS  Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
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|From: Brett Johnson
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Re: Brett Johnson; jealous gods
|Date: 15 Jan 97  21:56:33
EID:4277 222faf00
MSGID: 1:221/203 20b16364
TID: GE/32 1.2
>> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of exclusivity.
>> This is the nature of man's relationship to God.  This is the ultimate
>> meaning
FR> 
fR> You presume to pretend that there is one god.  That's easilly
fr> demonstrated false.
FR> 
bj> I'd be interested in seeing WHY you're a polytheist...
FR> 
FR> Your handicap would seem to be an inability to read.  There are literally
FR> hundreds of thousands of gods and goddesses, Brett.  That none of them
(eve
FR> yours) are evidenced to exist is besides the point.

Sorry I misinterpreted you.  I have no such handi-cap...simply that I've

encountered many neo-pagans.

FR> And yet here you are stomping your little foot and demanding that all
the m
FR> thousands of gods and goddesses you don't wish to acknowledge don't
exist s
FR> how.  That's easilly demonstrated false.

Why do you care?

bj> MY relationship, the covenant that exists between God and
bj> myself is an exclussive one.  The Scriptures allegorically
bj> compare it to a marriage.
FR> 
FR> Now you're changing your song to _your_ pretend "relationship" with
your de
FR> constructs.  Read your previous demand faithfully reproduced above,
you
FR> ignorant shit.  You labeled the entire human species as having a pretend
FR> relationship with your deity constructs.

Hardly Fredric.  If it seemed that way, that was not my intention.  I was

speaking to the dynamic of God's relation ship with human beings, if that

relationship even exists.  It doesn't neccesitate that all have THIS 
relationship.

bj> Thus even IF I believed that there were "other gods", it
bj> wouldn't bare on my relationship with THIS particular God.
FR> 
FR> That you don't want to believe in other gods is irrelevant.  That there
are
FR> countless thousands of gods and goddesses shows that you are only deluding
FR> yourself when you make claims as to the "exclusivity" of your pet pantheon.

Why is it that people who claim to be so unconcerned about people like myself

and our supposed supersticions, spend so much time in places like this writing
messages about us or too us?

Tis strange...

PAX

--- FRee iNTeRNeT!
* Origin: The Desert Sands BBS  Cambridge ON Canada (1:221/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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PATH: 221/203 200 100 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  .
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:11:54
EID:a0cf 22303960
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def93d
AS> You may have another chance. And no, I don't have proof for that one.
AS> I trust and have faith. I think I have reasonable, but not conclusive,
AS> evidence for other parts of my faith. But that I take on trust from
He who
AS> I think would know.

RV> Not I. I blew that one. What it taught me, was never to make that
RV> mistake again to those I care about.

And that's still a wise decision. Tell people how much you love them NOW.
Tomorrow may be too late.



... Nostalgia...all the good times you never had.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  adaption
|Date: 16 Jan 97  07:59:51
EID:7449 22303f60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def93e
Jd> Yeah, so god, the all-knowing, infallible, perfect posessor of all
Jd> knowledge who wants us all to belive in him and become brothers,
Jd> 'calls' intermediaries between him and the rest of us, and then sends
Jd> a cacaphony of opposing and conflicting messages. Baptists must come
Jd> to church trimmed and groomed, but if sikhs clip so much as a nose ahir
Jd> or split end, they are eternally damned. The anglicans are to quietly
Jd> accept evolution, but the church of god is to preach a 6000 year old
Jd> created earth.
Jd> Is your god an idiot, Al, or his he just an infallible poor judge of
Jd> men?

Neither.
God, in the NT and OT, told us just enough for our spiritual welfare...no
more, no less. It wasn't a blueprint for how to create a Universe, etc.
And of course, His is not the only one out there. There are many beliefs.
Although the urge to believe probably has to do with a subconscious
yearning for God, there are many faiths out there that have nothing to do
with who I believe is the Creator. (And the Bible also expands on this.
Molech worship was explicitedly condemened. Paul called the pagan gods of
Rome, OTOH, simple statues with no power to help or harm anyone, and saw
no problem with eating food sacrificed to them, except if it causes
someone else to lose faith.)
Rumours and people's own spin on things will always happen. Other belief
systems arise out of man's religious impulse. That doesn't mean one of
them can't be right, any more than, say, the various theories about
the interpretation of quantum mechanics can't all be right...but one of
them MIGHT be right.



... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Rob Burcham
|Sub:  ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:11:49
EID:70f6 22304160
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def93f
RB> Doesn't that describe Christianity to a T, Al?  "The salvation 
RB> of all mankind depended on the raping of a little girl."  If
RB> not for God's 'encounter' with Mary; no Jesus, no salvation.

RB> "Our father who art in heaven, thank you Lord for raping Mary."

Hmmm. That she gave a HYMN OF PRAISE to God afterwards for?
There was no violence. Nor is there ANY indication that such was
displeasing to her, EVEN THOUGH it almost caused her fiance to quietly
divorce her. She didn't even have the slightest idea she was pregnant. She
had "never known a man"--i.e., never experienced sex.
Must be a whole new definition of "rape".



... Ask every question. Question every answer.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Apostasy
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:34:40
EID:5791 22304440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def940
AS>  Communication; the Bible; think about it.

Jd> Communication; the Bible; the Catholic Index; Banned Books;
Jd> Censorship; think about it........

 I'm not Catholic, and NOBODY bans books around me. I've read things
like THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST and enjoyed them...or for that matter
THE STORY OF O, although the last is not my cuppa tea.

Jd> Oh - you're not allowed to think; just faith?

(Pounding floor) Ahhhh, yes. I'M not allowed to think. (Snicker!) Neither
was Augustine, or Aquinas, or Newton, or Lemaitre....not that I'm anywhere
in their league, but that has to be a pretty silly statement.



... Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Apostasy
|Date: 16 Jan 97  08:38:39
EID:07fc 223044c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def941
AS>> Communication; the Bible; think about it.

GT>> Oxymoron.

AS>  Maybe not.

GT> Okay, I'll grant you that it communicates a message.    So does
GT> 'Beavis and Butthead'. 


Touche!





... The Illuminati do not exist.  Really.  We're not kidding.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Apostasy
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:03:17
EID:8d4f 22304860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def942
AS> Maybe not.

DC> Second oxymoron in as many posts.  

Perhaps not.

DC> Got evidence to show that all of the bible is true, Al?  

No; in fact some parts I think are metaphors.

DC> If not, give the algorithms that point that all of 
DC> the myths in place there are based on fact.  After all, 
DC> it should be easy.  It's all true, isn't it?  

Well, no, Dan. That's not my claim. Indeed, I don't know anyone who thinks
there necessarily was a Prodigal Son, either. And that's in the
Bible...isn't it?




... "I think not," said Descartes; and promptly disappeared.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Apostasy
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:13:40
EID:8d4f 223049a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def943
AS> Obviously, I don't think the Bible is true because the Bible says
AS> so. But it is claimed to be a mode of communication between God and
AS> Man. 

DC> Judging by the number of unanswered prayers and the amount of 
DC> natural disasters that kill people, I think that it's broken.  

It's a onetime instruction manual. It's not a cureall.




... A person does not have a sense of humor, it has you.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Re: Baby In Critical Conditi
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:31:57
EID:4bac 22304be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def944
AS>    I think He did save the kid...eternally.

Jd> SAVED...by drowning! Hey, Al, let's SAVE ALL the kids! we could
Jd> have mass baptismal drownings at municipal and school swimming pools,
Jd> and, HALELUJE, we'll save ALL THE KIDS!
Jd> Praise Jeezuz!

Let's not. I wouldn't be worried about the kids' souls. I would definitely
be worried about the drowners' souls. (Not to mention the misery it would
cause the families of the kids, etc.) It would still be a reprehenisble
act, and one that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
You may have noted a commandment in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill."
It's a pretty good one.



... The wrong way always seems the most reasonable course.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
Y: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:33:12
EID:7db6 22304c20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def945
>   I also wonder how we would counter a claim from the parapsychology
> crowd...how some would claim it's man's innate "psychic" powers acting
> rather than a deity. Suggestions? Not just from you, Marilyn, anyone got

Jd> Call the 'Psychic Friends' 1-900 hotline, and they'll explain it
Jd> all to you.

Jd> All our operators are currently busy...please hold...

Say hello to Latoya Jackson for me. But I was more thinking about people
like Rhine...



... The floggings will continue until morale improves.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:36:12
EID:3f33 22304c80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def946
AS> So is calling Him a "petty despot".

DC> That's because your god lives by the Golden Rule:  

DC> "Do as I say, not as I do."  

Well...remember I think Jesus was an incarnation of God. In that respect,
he says, "Do as I said...and did."



... A journey of a thousand miles gets 1500 frequent flier miles.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Bootstrapping up, up and away
|Date: 16 Jan 97  20:49:31
EID:3855 2230a620
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def947
AS> But yes, it is a given that we will fall short. Many decry
AS> Christianity for falling short of its ideals. But those ideals...
AS> they are so high that they are worth shooting for. One may jump
AS> higher and higher trying to reach the sky. You will never reach
AS> it. But you can get closer.

Jd> While the superstitious imbeciles are exhorted by the priesthood
Jd> to keep jumping in futlity, the scientific atheists build a plane o
a
Jd> rocket and actually get there.

Let me know when they "reach" the sky. Also let me know which ones were
atheists, and how you know there were no theists involved with the building
and devising of planes and rockets.
So I can refute you, example after example.


... System Halted. Press any key you like. It woln't help.  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Celsus
|Date: 16 Jan 97  09:49:50
EID:6be2 22304e20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def948
AS> Much the same reason Diocletian's men BURNED many Christian
AS> documents, and would have gotten them all, if Diocletian had had
AS> more time. Because human beings, unfortunately--not Christians,
AS> not pagans, but human beings---tend to want to suppress what they
AS> disagree with.

Jd> Thanks Al, for pointing out that _christian_ behaviour is no better
Jd> than anyone else's, in spite of their claims to be following a path
of
Jd> higher morality and ethics.

But it's not a claim I make. "We are all sinners", John said,"and if we
say we are not, we deceive ourselves."

Jd> In other words, they're lying.

Maybe you're listening to the wrong people.

Jd> Toodle ooh,

Toodles.



... I am intolerant only of the intolerant.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  coincidence one
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:22:29
EID:a69f 223052c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def949
DC> Use your imagination, Al.  Assume that the rapture occured and 
DC> you didn't make the cut.  

AS> There are days where that wouldn't surprise me.

DC> It must be the days when Staal doesn't post a message.    
DC> And, when he does, you get ripped back into reality!  

Reality? On THIS echo? Oh, COME now...



... Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Credit Cards
|Date: 16 Jan 97  10:51:53
EID:15af 22305660
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94a
DC> Fer sure!  Then, too, I think he also drew the Belit series for 
DC> Conan.  I think they were probably the best of the lot.  

AS> Just as the original Belit story was probably the best of the
AS> original Robert E. Howard stories.

DC> You know, I never have gotten around to reading any of the REH 
DC> originals.  

Good stuff. I like especially the short story where Conan is
crucified...and lured a vulture down...and then ate the vulture.
Not wonderful stuff...I like Moorcock a little more...but all
sword-and-sorcery really started with REH's stuff, first with his Kull,
and most successfully with Conan. (I also like Solomon Kane.)\



... veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I stuck around.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Educational Experience
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:03:11
EID:386b 22305860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94b
JS> I see. If not, then what? Why are you so bigoted against one segment
JS> of society, Rod?

AS>  Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
AS>  often complains about bigoted treatment towards gays, Rod would
AS> doubtless  be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to
AS> another
AS>  group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
AS>    Excellent point, Jim.

JS> yeah, and Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> befriends them. Go figure...

Good to know.



... Hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Experimental Prayer
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:07:01
EID:c300 223058e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94c
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether
AS> prayer actually works or not?

Jd> Yes. In Scarborough, at the intersection of Morningside Ave and John
Jd> Stoner Road a partially constructed Mosque has sat for some time.
Jd> In the interim, a Baptist Church has been built (completed) across the
Jd> road.
Jd> The ideal prayer test would be for the Baptists to gather in the
Jd> Mosque parking lot and pray to god for the immediate and miraculous
Jd> completion of the mosque construction.
Jd> Simultaneously, the muslims could pray in the Baptist parking lot to
Jd> allah for an earthquake to topple the Baptist church.

And if God didn't want to cooperate with either?



... And on the 8th day God said, "Ok, Murphy, you're in charge."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
SEEN-BY: 147/2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Sam Ferguson
|Sub:  Fundy lost library book.
|Date: 16 Jan 97  11:58:52
EID:e2eb 22305f40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94d
SF> irrefutible. Interestingly AS> enough, the Bible I like, the Jerusalem
SF> Bible, also talks of its as a AS> parable, of taking many of the
SF> Sumerian flood myths to tell an eternal AS> truth about God's
SF> relationship to Man.

SF> Al the whole bible is a parable. In the third century the priests of
SF> Christianity changed the parables(myths on this holysmoke) into
SF> historical people and events. The sad thing is the parables have
SF> always made mankind a more loving race, and this change has caused less
SF> love and more crime than any philosophy known. When man changed this
SF> teaching the message was lost.

It's possible, Sam. It's also possible that the idea of a Roman Empire was
cooked up by the Roman Chamber of Commerce to invent a glorious past.
Yeah, the Collosium would be a lot of work, but hey, it's probably paid
for itself in the tourists it's brought in...
Not making fun of you, Sam. Just making a point. Anybody can say things
are changed from the original. Evidence for same is a little different.

SF> Sadly most when they can't accept this false teaching seem to get down
SF> on all philosphy. I can't mention any books at the library for every
SF> time I do on these forums, they always get lost. Last two recently
SF> were the Mystical Christ by Manley Hall & Warfare between science &
SF> religion, by Andrew White. I found a bookstore on internet and bought
SF> one and downloaded one from IPL.ORG reading room.

Good deal.

AS> AS> use interlibrary loan and get a copy for just paying the
SF> postage, AS> AS> which is cheaper even than the paperback, though.

SF> They never charge me. Am I lucky or have they just started? I have 2
SF> downtown waiting for me now.

They've been doing it for years for me, Sam. Must like you better. Or
maybe they waive it for those who have disabilities or who are older.
Now, this is for books outside of Metro/Davidson County. They'll get
books from other libraries WITHIN the system free of charge, of course.



... "Always Ask the Next Question!" --Theodore Sturgeon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  He Come de Judge
|Date: 16 Jan 97  14:40:46
EID:9ab6 22307500
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94e
AS> The Dark Ages would have happened, with or without Christianity.

LB> And by what crystal ball are you divining THAT assertion?  The Dark

History. The barbarians who took over when Rome fell, were, for the most
part, non-Christians. Although they later converted (some to Arianism).

LB> Ages were brought on and maintained in large measure by the
LB> prohibitions and superstitions of a theology that promoted the Divine
LB> Right of Kings no matter how stupid, ignorant or dog-mean they were
(as
LB> long as they paid due tithe and honor to the church) and told the
LB> peasant class it was gods will that they stay there.  And that EVERYONE
LB> who bitched faced eternal damnation which was presented in very
LB> colorful terms.  But just hang on...the squalor you live in now is
LB> nothing to complain about or try to rise above...just stay humble,
LB> people, because Jesus is coming back real soon now. 

Lynda, you can examine the history of the Celtic or Viking peoples, or the
Gothic peoples, etc., pre-Christianity. Not much of it, is there, that we
can verify? That is because they were mostly cultures that did not give
a
great deal of emphasis to literacy; nothing wrong with that. My own
ancestors (German, Celtic, Anglic, etc.) were such.
We could have been like that for the next thousand years. Don't tell me
such things don't happen. We know next to nothing of say, the Hyskos
incursion into Egypt, which lasted for centuries. We're not even SURE of
where the Hyskos CAME from.
All of Western Europe could have been swallowed in a barbarism that was
near-complete. The fragments of the Roman Empire could have fragmented
even more, with their own religions, with no common language, with the
common heritage falling into disrepute. (And remember, the Islamic culture
was in some ways dependent on the Christian culture first. It incorporated
some Christian beliefs while rejecting others, and Christianity definitely
had an influence on it. We know relatively little about the pre-Islam
religions...again, because they did not put a premium on literacy.)
Instead, Christianity gave Europe a common tongue while letting them
develop their own political systems, it gave them a common religion and
worldview, a truly international organization. It had monastaries where,
under the Benedictine rule, copying manuscripts was a duty...which
preserved much of what went before. As for the divine right of
Kings...even kings had to defer to the Pope...one can think of the king
who waited in snow for several days before the Pope would see him...but
you got to be the Pope, by, among other things, learning. Yes, some
influential families could manipulate things (something we see in our
democracy here) but several times men were made Popes who had extremely
humble beginnings.
Was it a paradise? By no means. Would it have been a lot worse without
Christianity unifying much of Europe? (And the influence it had on the
beginnings of Islam, which preserved other parts of the ancient world?)
You betcha.
History is full of Dark Ages, and in some the silence is near-absolute
because nothing was left behind. The fact that you can criticize the
conditions of the Dark Ages is really a tribute to the scribes (usually
the clergy) who wrote down the conditions, back then.

AS> Instead, Christian monks are the whole reason many classical texts,
AS> including such texts as Ovid's Arts of Love...hardly a holy
AS> work--survived. 

LB> Those are the same folks who forbade even the Bible from being read
or
LB> understood by the general populous.  They held literacy close to
LB> themselves as a priviledge of the church, and just LOOK how well they
LB> stewarded that knowledge to the rest of the people. Religious
LB> superstition was sold to the masses in the Masses. The better to
LB> control you with, my dear. 

And before that, we had feasts to the Emperor, and meat on days holy to
certain gods being distributed, and mystery religions which were MUCH
harder to access than Christianity. No soap, Lynda. If you think the
priests hoarded it, look at the average Mithric temple, and how secret
they kept THEIR ceremonies and teachings.

LB> The Dark Ages would have neither been so dark, nor lasted for so many
LB> ages without the loving touch of christianity to aid and abet it.

Totally disagree. Without the common framework of the Church, the lingua
franca of Latin (which would have mutated in dialects and then seperate
languages...as indeed, they did) which was Europe-wide, the unified
Western culture would have fragmented and not interacted anywhere as much
as they did....be as isolated as pre-Christian Russia, or Druidic France,
or the Aesir loving Vikings, or the pre-Christian Irish. Nor would Islam
have saved it, for it is doubtful that Mohammed would have been as
influenced by Jewish and Christian writings if there was no evangelizing
Christianity...there weren't a lot of Jewish  settlements in Arabia, were
there? --Islam, if it existed at all, would have been very different. I
doubt if they would have valued books as much as they do, nor prized the
"peoples of the Book").



... Those who will not read have no advantage over those who cannot.  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Hello
|Date: 16 Jan 97  12:34:47
EID:4a1b 22306440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def94f
AS>  Alien from a planet around Vega, an alien babe in a skimpy costume
who can
AS>  fly and throw off energy blasts, and had a thing for Robin/Dick
AS>  Grayson/Nightwing. Not inhibited. When she wanted to change to her
AS>  costume, not realizing the mores of Earth, did so right in front of
a
AS>  VERY interested older guy on a bench waiting for a bus.

GT> Thanks.    I'll have to research it.    If she's muscular enough, it
GT> might work for next Halloween. 

The first costume, at least, would be pretty breezy. Sort of like a bikini
with a wide collar(almost a torc, if I'm remembering the right term) and
bracelets and boots. Oh, and if you have anyway to fake it...the pupils
didn't show, and her eyes were green and catlike.



... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  humor...........
|Date: 16 Jan 97  12:40:00
EID:6717 22306500
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def950
GT>> Y'mean Daddy-O, Junior, and Spookie?

AS>  It's odd how the trinity motif reoccurs. Odin and his two brothers
shaped
AS>  the existing Midgard out of the remains of Ymir...

GT> Yep -- got my Poetic Eddas right her.   That proves it's THE TRUTH,
GT> doesn't it? {disengaging TIC mode} 

I would disagree, but Fenris would get VERY angry...
I did a few drafts of a book on living with autism, and the tentative
title was VIDAR. Perhaps you can guess why...? (The discs got melted in
the fire, though, and I never got it to the point where I felt it was
publishable.)



... The end is ne$@&*^@#% NO CARRIER
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  I'll be back...
|Date: 16 Jan 97  20:53:42
EID:2c8e 2230a6a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def951
AS> The eyes are by far the most expressive parts of the face, and often
AS> the "window of the soul".

Jd> "Oh Al", cried Peg, "That's SO poetic!"

Peg? (OTOH, it's for sure BARB would never say anything so sappy...)

Jd> But tell us, Al, just what would a 'spirit' need a window for?

All the better to see you with, my dear...




... Don't ask me.  The cats are in charge around here.  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Jesus as a Quack healer
|Date: 16 Jan 97  12:52:03
EID:70b3 22306680
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def952
AS> Oddly enough, Rod, my church has a special Sunday School class
AS> for kids with mental disabilities. And has welcomed many other
AS> with other disabilities.
AS> Some of our deacons have disabilities.
AS> Jesus came not to heal the well, but the sick, to help those in
AS> need, not those not in need of a physician.

Jd> Well, since you've got a sunday skool full of them, obviously yer
Jd> jesus is a failure at 'healing' them, ain' he.

We'll have to ask Him when He comes visiting...and then decide.



... Power corrupts.  Absolute power is kinda neat.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 133/5050 140/3 143/1 147/34
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Sam Ferguson
|Sub:  Jews and Christians   1/
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:02:33
EID:79c2 22306840
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def953
SF> When Jesus drank wine and broke bread at the Last Supper, he was
SF> doing what a Jew does every time he performs the Kiddush ceremony
SF> before a Festival or Sabbath meal. When Jesus began his prayer with
SF> "Our Father that art in heaven..."he was following the pattern of
SF> Pharisee prayers which still form part of the Jewish Daily Prayer Book.
SF> When he spoke in parables and used startling phrases (such as "swallow
SF> a camel" or "the beam in thine own eye") he was using methods of
SF> expression familiar to any student of the Talmudic writings.

Yep. He was a product of his culture.

SF> At the same time, a Jew reading the Gospels is immediately aware of
SF> aspects which do not seem authentic; for example, the accounts of
SF> Pharisees wanting to kill Jesus because he healed on the Sabbath. The
SF> Pharisees never included healing in their list of activities forbidden
SF> on the Sabbath; and Jesus's methods of healing did not involve any of
SF> the activities that were forbidden. It is unlikely that they would have
SF> disapproved, even mildly, of Jesus's Sabbath-healing. Moreover, the
SF> picture of bloodthirsty, murderous Pharisees given in the Gospels
SF> contradicts everything known about them from Josephus, from their own
SF> writings, and from the Judaism, still living today, which they created.


I'm sure those who only look at the Founding Fathers would find the
McCarthy Era hard to swallow. Or those who looked at Thomas More would be
shocked by Pat Robertson. Reactionaries happen in every tradition, though.
And reactionary phases.




... Even the smallest candle burns bright in the darkness.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Sam Ferguson
|Sub:  Jews and Christians   4/
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:09:45
EID:29c1 22306920
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def954
SF> It may be objected that this account makes Jesus appear insane. Could
SF> he really have expected the prophesies of Zechariah to be fulfilled
so
SF> literally that night on the Mount of Olives? How could he have been
so
SF> sure he knew the exact hour of the prophesies, and that it was through
SF> him that they would be fulWlled? As a person, Jesus was what would
SF> today be described as a "manic" character, i.e., one capable of
SF> remaining for long periods at a high pitch of enthusiasm and euphoria.

Well, Schweitzer disagreed that He had any sort of identifiable mania. But
of course, Schweitzer had to work with the reports he had...couldn't
examine Jesus personally.



... Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Latest Martinez disaster
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:10:54
EID:04c5 22306940
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def955
AS>  Haven't heard much from The British Supermensa lately. Wonder why?

GT> Wasn't that 'supermensch'?

That too.



... No sense in being pessimistic--- it won't work anyway.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  mother earth & life
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:38:05
EID:a7cc 22306cc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def956
AS> RV> Since this speck will never venture out of the gravity well
AS> RV> caused by her mass. It's more then enought for me. 
AS> RV> Small goddess or not, it appears Gaia's given of her substance
AS> RV> so i'm here, the spark of life via her laboratory, the soul of
AS> RV> my own creation. It's enought for me if i wish a god/goddess
AS> RV> father sun, mother earth.

AS> Despite causing diseases, earthquakes, and beings who rape?

RV> So Gaia made a mistake ?  Does she claim to be perfect ?
RV> Hell if i know.

Good question and good point.



... Actually it's not replying that takes time, it's choosing a tagline.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   Styx Allum
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 16 Jan 97  13:46:01
EID:955d 22306dc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def957
SA> BTW - I have always considered your daily posts here to be nothing
SA> more than propagandic litter being cast upon the grounds of our holy
SA> forum.  It's reassuring to know that we can now laugh at the litterbug
SA> instead of just the litter.

LOL!!!




... Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
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Y: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 116/17 62 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Al Schroeder
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 16 Jan 97  20:54:58
EID:2648 2230a6c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32def958
-=> Quoting Styx Allum to George Mooth <=-

>                                ð Geo ð
>
> gmooth@sprynet.com

Please note the email address.  Now, it would be unChristian and unkind
of
me to suggest that Holy Smoke as a whole, due to the "pleasure" of his
spamming us for YEARS now, that we might spam him with all sorts of
messages. Golly. I wouldn't do that.
However, it helps to have some WOA friends...

PS. And THAT is a true Schroederian conspiracy, for those who are taking
notes.




... When subtlety fails us, we must resort to cream pies.  
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
SEEN-BY: