God Damned Fundies!
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck Staal
|Date: 20 Jan 97 08:46:11
EID:6de7 223445c5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a7c
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd2a61
PID: FM 2.02
GT>> I wasn't pagan when I got divorced. That is what
gt>> he meant. My divorce fall into Christian stats.
ijs>> Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.
FR> Mormons _are_ Christians you ignorant buttfuck bigot.
These fundies are quite ready to include all brand names when trying to
inflate their cult's numbers and yet when it's no longer convieniet, they
disavow hundreds of millions.
sq> Trent Hall went running in THUMP_IT when we brought this up.
sq> See, the Mormons deal with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT Jesus of s
qq> Nazareth who was put on trial by the Romans, crucified, and
sq> resurrected. NO relation to the one found in the New Testament.
You're crapping me negative with that, right?! Talk about delusional!
sq> :-/
sq> [I can't believe I defend the assholes who harass my wife!]
But that's fun, too!
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 20 Jan 97 08:50:16
EID:5ec2 22344648
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a7d
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd2b88
PID: FM 2.02
sq> My poor brother-in-law (The one with the missionary book, in fact).
sq> He's a good guy, and wouldn't hurt anybody, but he -really- got the
sq> royal indoctrination.
Is that what they're calling a royal screwing these days? }:-}
sq> At his wedding, a few of Suzy's brothers and brothers-in-law
sq> were trying to get him to put a garter on his new bride,
sq> and then remove it. Neither would have a THING to do with the
sq> idea, and I think they both would have let everybody have it
sq> if the mood hadn't been so festive.
Oh how idiotic. Goat grief. Like, he couldn't close his eyes and keep
from vomiting in fear long enough?
sq> PS: We were going to buy the new bride a leather teddy,
sq> but changed our minds at the last minute. :)
You made it a matching set of leather halters and riding crops instead?
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 08:53:07
EID:3c17 223446a3
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a7e
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dd2e02
PID: FM 2.02
AM>> Which would lead you more horrified, to find one
AM>> of your children being a satanist or a Christian?
FR> There is no difference.
sq> You know, for once I agree with your rhetoric, at least as far as
sq> finding out that my kid has hooked up with the local Jesus squad
sq> or the local fad vampire cult. :)
Only once?! Why, I'm offended! Really!
But there are three major types of "Satanist." The brand that he is thinking
of believes in the "Satan" god -- a Christian construct.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Satan
|Sub: HOLYSMOKE - we're all gonna die!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:03:54
EID:ff2b 2234487b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a7f
REPLY: 1:134/67.666 7056c353
PID: FM 2.02
FR> We all learned that he no longer considered himself a
FR> Christian -- at least the type of fundy brainless brand that
FR> he exhibited. I had no idea that it was motivated by his
FR> cult's fear of television.
sat> Heheheheh... We argued with him on that score. We claimed
sat> he was still a Christian. He still walked like a Christian
sat> and talked like a Christian...
Too bad. He could have been helped out entirely, perhaps.
sat> It may not been so much a fear of television
sat> as a disdain for material goods.
And yet in supreme hypocricy his cult had no problem with computers or computer
networks.
sq> As We recall, this was a big screen TV; a little more than
sq> required and possibly the congregation felt this "one-upped"
sq> everybody else. But, Martin is a working Joe with a job
sq> which certainly cannot bring in the bigger bucks, so this
sq> was an exaggerated reaction at best.
If this is true then his problems with his cult was motivate by their jealousy
against him.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Satan
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:06:21
EID:c243 223448ca
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a80
REPLY: 1:134/67.666 d0c609ef
PID: FM 2.02
JH> The fire at Waco and the bombing of the OKC Federal Building.
JH> Torpedoing the Lusitania.
JH> Nukeing Japan.
America's biggest blunder... winning the war.
JH> The disappearance of Amelia Earhardt or Jimmy Hoffa.
JH> The Great Blizzard of 1888.
JH> The explosions of the Hindenberg, the U.S. Maine or the Space
JH> Shuttle Challenger.
JH> I did not murder Nicole Brown or Ron Goldman.
JH> I was NOT on the grassy knoll on Nov. 22, 1963. (Nowhere near
JH> Dallas, as a matter of fact. Just ask Henry.)
JH> I can not be held responsible for the common cold, Yoko Ono,
JH> Eight track tapes, dog hairs, stupid taglines, Billy Beer,
JH> Rwanda or the rap version of Porgie and Bess.
sat> Geraldo Rivera?
Rush Limabugh.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:06:49
EID:2232 223448d8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a81
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a47d
PID: FM 2.02
> Dan,
> God loves you.
Which one? Have any evidence for those deity constructs of yours?
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:09:12
EID:2232 22344926
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a82
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a47e
PID: FM 2.02
FR> No Christanic death cultist ever thinks at their deity
fr> constructs willingly. They do so out of fear and resentment.
fr> The fear of death is underscored wit the fear of "eternal
fr> torment." Towards the ends of avoiding this pretend problem,
fr> they pretend to believe.
ch> You have to remove your first word... "No", and
ch> then I can have some agreement with you.
Your agreement or lack of agreement isn't germaine to the facts of the issue.
It is undeniable that critical thought precludes belief in _anything_, not
just the classical Christanic mythologies.
ch> (your wording was a little awkward for me, but I think I followed you)
It's called "English." A small percentage of your problem is a lack of
education in a broad spectrum of areas; reading comprehension foremost among
them.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:11:40
EID:2232 22344974
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a83
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a47e
PID: FM 2.02
ch> I do not fear my God, nor have any resentments (though
ch> I certainly did have resentments for a long time).
Just keep telling yourself that and perhaps some day you'll manage to convince
yourself that it's true. And yet when you bow down in fear at night and
think at your Alpha Male deity construct, shuddering in suplication least
it afflict you with cancer or an education, try your best not to think about
the truth.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Pray Contest
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:13:48
EID:c9fe 223449b8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a84
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a480
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You're making some assumptions. One need not believe
fr> in something's existan to think at it. What you're trying
fr> to avoid is the fact that anyone can pra at any god and
fr> the results are the same. Anyone can pray at cheese and
fr> the results are the same.
ch> I've tried it both ways, and I had results differing
ch> from what you describe. Consistantly.
You're a liar. There is no "both ways." There are _hundreds_of_thousands_
of gods and goddesses and even more inanimate and animate objects to pray
at.
Strict scientific tests prove that there is no difference whether someone
pray at the Christianic death gods or a seat cushion.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christ-Like Ignorance
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:15:55
EID:5e4e 223449fb
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a85
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a482
PID: FM 2.02
CH> I am sure he wept over all the suffering you brought to my attention.
MG> I see you have chosen the apologetic route. Please explain to me
mg> why your merciful and all powerful god lets this kind of shit go
mg> down.
ch> Thank you for the reply. Sure, I would be happy to answer your
ch> question, but help me try to relate to you, please. I ask...
FR> For some strange reason you elected not to answer the question.
fR> Now why would that be? What possible benefit do you think you
fr> derive from not answering even the most simplest and mundane of
fr> questions?
ch> Be patient Fred.
Ah, yes. Like your fictional construct who was made to demand that it would
return within the lifetime of its pretend followers, you're quite willing
to "be patient" until, like every generation of ignorant death cultists
before you, you all die disappointed.
There is no conceivable benefit to derive for not answering the question,
dear.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Christian Hedemark: Buttfuck wannabe?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:20:33
EID:1d9d 22344a90
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a86
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a483
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Look at what Christianity has done to you. It has either
fr> turned you into a pathetic lying, ignorant buffooon else you
fr> use Christianity to justify the pre-existing condition.
ch> This very dialogue supports what I said:
ch> 1) This "fundy" has not shut up, and...
I wouldn't let you. After six years of constant parades by fundy death
cultists such as yourself we've all managed to learn how easy it is to manipulate
you into doing what we wish. We kept Jesse here for years by manipulating
his ego and we'll keep you here as long as we wish by working on your need
for exhibitionism.
ch> 2) You have answered me without vulgarities!
ch> (perhaps not very pleasantly done, but it was clean)
I have _never_ answered you with "vulgarities," you ignorant dick-sucking
buttfuck baboon. One of the experiments we might try out on you, however,
is to drive you to posting occultism unthinkingly like a busted shit pipe
by frightening you with mere words with every message.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Christian Hedemark
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:22:53
EID:a06b 22344ada
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a87
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a483
PID: FM 2.02
ch> 2) You have answered me without vulgarities!
ch> (perhaps not very pleasantly done, but it was clean)
This fundy wants to pretend that he's managed to get people to stop "using
vulgarities" against him -- never mind the fact that I hadn't until now.
Perhaps that way he can claim to his masters that he's making progress with
his assignment here.
I would guess that this one is easy to manipulate wince words frighten him
so. The question is, what should we make him do?
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 20 Jan 97 09:27:05
EID:5524 22344b62
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a075a88
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Thanks for the update... utterly amazing! No, I had no idea
fr> what the background was and to hear it I find that the story
fr> is even more bizarre than what the news reported.
dw> Just proving that yet again, truth really is stranger
dw> than fiction. However, I may be incorrect in thinking
dw> that she was expelled - she may have only been suspended,
dw> although any way you cut it the whole affair is silly.
From what I've heard she had transfered to another school even before the
father started his lawsuit against the school. If she had stayed she would
probably have been made a hero had her father not sued the school, otherwise
I suspect she would have been made a traitor.
FR> And a double standard? What if a boy wore black lipstick to school?
dw> Well, I actually think that the affair would have been
dw> more _likely_ if a boy had done it. After all, girls have
dw> always wore lipstick - who cares if it's a funny color?
dw> But a BOY wearing lipstick? That's E-VIL...
Oh hey yes. A boy applying independent _thinking_ is evil.
I just hope that this fiasco has prompted _millions_ of little shits across
the country to rush right out and buy black lipstick to show the absurdity
of some people.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Matt Giwer
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:11:40
EID:c4f8 22346174
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c2196
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73b4e6d8
PID: FM 2.02
DW> Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer? It seems he has
DW> acheived noteriety on the Internet approaching that enjoyed by
DW> Steve Winter.
DW> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
Good ole' Ken McVey archives.
mg> I found his web site one fine afternoon.
mg> He's an ugly little dawg, isn't he?
What's annoying is that the guy appears to be an atheist. He's the only
atheist racist bigot I have ever heard of.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Nate Cookson
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:19:07
EID:319e 22346263
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c2198
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0ee6a3
PID: FM 2.02
NC> Mt Favorite Martian speaks again!!
cj> Or were you trying to speak again of your favorite Martian
cj> mountain? My own favorite Martian mountain is Olympus Mons.
You do realize, don't you, that you've just managed to confuse and frighten
him horribly. Geography lessons are hard enough on fundies when they're
about the Earth.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Christian cannibalism
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:21:47
EID:9214 223462b7
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c2199
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0ee71a
PID: FM 2.02
cj> I can't quite remember offhand in which book of the OT it
cj> speaks of the woman complaining to the king about the other woman
cj> going back on the agreement by refusing to offer up her kid in
cj> turn, but that whole episode was a great yarn, including the two
cj> beggars going out to give themselves up to the enemy then having
cj> the time of their lives in the abandoned camp.
quote 2 Kings
6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she
answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may
eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.
quote 6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her
on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath
hid her son.
Christanic death cultists see nothing wrong with eating babies and yet they
label homosexuals as "abominations."
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Staal: bold-faced liar
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:28:43
EID:7648 22346395
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219a
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0eebc0
PID: FM 2.02
CJ>> You of course recall the Enc. Britannica passage? It surely
CJ>> introduces doubt about John Calvin according with your view.
JS>> To you, perhaps, not me.
CJ>> Jim Staal, a weightier authority than the Encyclopedia
CJ>> Britannica. Jim Staal, who knows what John Calvin said even when
CJ>> Jim Staal says he doesn't know what John Calvin had to say on a
CJ>> subject.
JS> Huh? I really do not care at this opoint.
cj> Jim Staal, who doesn't care whether or not he agrees with John Calvin.
We've watched this Promise Keeper's antics for years. This one's pretty
mild; he isn't ranting about Jewish conspiracies and about how women need
to be slugged by their husbands for being upity.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:38:48
EID:eab6 223464d8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219b
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2dd027f4
PID: FM 2.02
DW>> I walk up to you in an alley, pull a gun, and say "your
DW>> money or your life." You would have no problem with this?
D> I'd probably have a major problem with that,
DW> Why? I haven't taken your "free will" away, after all.
dom> No, you havent.
right over your pointed head.
dom> But I dont know a single person who wouldn't have a
dom> problem with having a loaded gun pulled on them.
There's no difference, idiot. The Christanic pantheon demands their playthings
may do as they wish while holding a gun to their toys' heads.
I suspect you're laboring under an unusual definition of the term "free
will."
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: truth
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:44:52
EID:3f37 2234659a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32dcccd5
PID: FM 2.02
JB> Uh... Gwenny, I don't let my insult capability loose too often;
In all seriousness your posts indicate that you lack the intelligence required
to insult a money picking pranuts out of his own shit.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hubris
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:48:14
EID:5005 22346607
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219d
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32dccefe
PID: FM 2.02
dw> I'm not surprised, though, that a Christian
dw> equates human society with the world.
I'm not either. The supreme hubris of Christians to pretend that the whole
of the universe exists just for them.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Bread and Butter
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:52:34
EID:9b7c 22346691
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219e
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73bab195
PID: FM 2.02
jjh> I propose that from this time forward every user who feels so
jjh> inclined should return each and every Daily Bread posting to that
jjh> address.
I've been doing so through email for months... Never a reply.
The guy is a coward. A typical Christian coward incapable of defending
his occultism to the point of having no other recourse than to repeatedly
spam and then hide from the consequences.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Steingrobe
|Sub: Am I getting through?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:56:17
EID:e9ff 22346708
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c219f
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dd1c40
PID: FM 2.02
js> WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet. Now I just
js> have to see if this works and all. I hope to be a blessing to all of
you
js> out there since I know many of you could use a blessing. :) See ya
all
js> around hopefully.
Welcome back. It's been a few years.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:57:05
EID:b006 22346722
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a0
REPLY: 1:229/622 32dd632c
PID: FM 2.02
DH> "atheism /n. the theory or belief that God[sic]
DH> does not exist."
JH>> THAT is in the OED?
JH>> Sounds more like Merriam Webster's.
DR> I find it highly unlikely that OED said the above.
dh> That is exactly what it says, and all of it.
What year is that copy printed in? Maybe that's the problem.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 20 Jan 97 12:59:29
EID:cb89 2234676e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a1
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32dda9c4
PID: FM 2.02
BS> C'mon, you honestly don't think they don't donate to charities?
BS> I sure can't tell you they do or don't, but I imagine a good percentage
BS> of them do.
jf> I didn't say that none of them did - it just seems that few
jf> of these people get their photos taken for GOOD reasons, like
jf> helping the community or saving the life of someone above the
jf> age of one year.
It has been my experience that only cultists who wish to win brownie points
with their deity constructs and show everyone else how pius they are make
an exhibition sport of their mock charity. It has further been my experience
that atheists who work with and support charities rarely feel the need to
broadcast the fact.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Al Schroeder's "free will" myth
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:04:26
EID:57ff 2234688d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a2
PID: FM 2.02
Al Schroeder
Dan Ceppa
AS> "Okay, here are two doors. One leads to a smorgasboard of delicious
AS> food, and beautiful music, and fine books, and pretty ladies. The
AS> other leads you to a sheer dropoff and you will die, horribly, falling
AS> twenty stories. "Your choice."
rh> And you must choose one or the other.
rh> There goes your "free will", Al.
With Al's death gods it gets even more absurd: The educated who realize
there's no need to chose a fictional solution to a non-existant problem
are "damned" -- so much for the "free will" of 99% of the world's population.
rh> Solved the split brain dilemma yet?
Al sold his reason for a comfortable lie.
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Which geneology?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:06:21
EID:5cf7 223468ca
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd1d0d
PID: FM 2.02
JS> the ancestry of Jesus) It is very interesting to note that God used
JS> such as hookers and killers to maintain His promise to Abraham.
I would bet a buck that you'll demand the two conflicting geneologies created
for the so-called "Jesus" mythos aren't in conflict. Do I win again?
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:09:40
EID:03d2 22346934
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a4
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd726b
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Mormons _are_ Christians you ignorant buttfuck bigot.
iJS> Hmmm...evidence? (that they are Christians and
ijs> that I am ignorant, a buttf**k or a bigot)
dc> All three are equally evident, Jimbo. Especially that last two.
Which he would know if he weren't such a buttfuck. }:-} Ah
but he's ours now, huh?
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Bye Bye!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:18:42
EID:f29c 22346a55
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a5
PID: FM 2.02
cp> Just so you all know, I don't think I'll be resonding
cp> to anyone's mail any time shortly, you see I have found
cp> a new "toy" (the internet) and have gotten
Oh no, it couldn't be your inability to defend your death gods, now could
it?
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous gods
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:20:19
EID:2fbe 22346a89
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a6
REPLY: 1:221/203 1fff4046
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> MY relationship, the covenant that exists between God and myself is
bj> an exclussive one.
DC> That's nice. That means you exclude Frederic from
dc> your god. You are a jealous one, it seems.
bj> Not at all. I'm not keeping Fredric from the Lord. He has
bj> opened His arms to recieve those of all nations, and races.
You've just stated the second most bloody and evil ideology the Christanic
death cult uses to enslave and oppress countless millions of innocents.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:21:52
EID:bc2d 22346aba
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a7
REPLY: 1:221/203 1fff4049
PID: FM 2.02
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
bj> You must remember, you're speaking to worldly
bj> people. For them, the above is not "proof".
Translation: He's speaking to ___educated___ people. For hose of us who
know the origins of the classical Christanic mythologies and the history
of the death cult, the above is how death cultists perpetuate their own
slavery to men.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:23:09
EID:e138 22346ae4
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0c21a8
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dd86d4
PID: FM 2.02
JB> "'Nothing' itself" is an oxymoron. My point goes to this ultimate-
JB> absolute, which imho cannot be spoken about in language --even the
JB> language of math: this absolute is NOT "the empty set" --that is a
JB> _thing_, not NO Thing.
as> I'm not going to get mixed up in this exchange, except to
as> note the irony of a long-drawn out discussion/debate/occasional
as> flame about...literally...nothing. Or zero.
Irony alert!
You worship one, you ignorant brain dead fundy!
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: More grist from the web
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:33:21
EID:41b3 22346c2a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0d6c79
PID: FM 2.02
AS> Many have tried to build an ethos without a God[sic].
AS> It all comes down to "because it's RIGHT, dammit!"
Yet it's the religious who holds the highest body count and the blood of
uncounted millions on their hands. Christianity has been and continues
to be _the_ single most evil and destructive set of ideologies ever unleashed
upon an innocent humanity.
And you joined it willingly. You must agree with it.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: No, really
|Date: 20 Jan 97 13:47:04
EID:1969 22346de2
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a0d6c7a
PID: FM 2.02
dr> I was more-or-less in the group that tried to plan the
dr> "communication" ribbon or button. Green for "Don't ask;"
dr> yellow for "straight, please ask;" blue for "homosexual,
dr> don't ask;" black for "too goddamned old, ask anyhow;"
dr> etc. etc. etc. At the time I objected because there would
dr> be so many different colored ribbons to meet every sexual
dr> preference and inclination. It was "decided" that a simple
dr> ribbon denoting "I'm safe to talk to about sex; I will
dr> answer every question politely, friendly, and calmly"
dr> would suffice.
What color were the "Yes, fuck me!" ribbons?
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (don't read if you're under age)
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:34:23
EID:f29f 2234844b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cdb
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32dda29e
PID: FM 2.02
FR> I was in that group of men and, as I recall, we were all too
FR> frightened to answer intelligently. I tend to think that real bastard
FR> assholes have no difficulty asking or picking up "fawn eyes" cues; the
FR> nice husband-type- material guys, however, can barely keep from
FR> pissing themselves.
dw> I have a friend here who is quite literally one of the most
dw> physically attractive women I have *ever* seen. She's always
dw> asking me why men don't ask her out. "errr... Maybe because
dw> you scare the piss out of 'em?"
And on the odd chance that a series of dates ever get off the ground, the
fragile male ego more often that not gets subjected to the most cruel of
comments, "I really like you. But I want us to be just friends."
Who needs that?!
dw> On several occasions she has done the "fawn eyes" bit to guys
dw> that interest her while we are out together.
A Promise Keeper would take her home immediately and beat the shit out of
her -- then just maybe, to "be of service" to her, drop her off at the hospital.
dw> She doesn't understand
dw> when I tell her that any guy she gets while in the company of
dw> another male is very likely to be a complete shithead. I try to
dw> get her to go out alone, and she says, "But then all the guys
dw> will be hitting on me!" By this point in this recurrent
dw> conversation, I start looking for a brick wall to bash my head
dw> against.
dw> Women are fucking *odd*.
Maybe the Creationist lunatics are right and they _are_ a different species.
}:-}
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Matthew Hunt
|Sub: A Disciple for an Ignorant Man
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:39:29
EID:bc59 223484ee
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cdc
REPLY: 1:170/604.0 32dd9323
PID: FM 2.02
DR> wish that I had known you a while back when I was by myself
DR> dealing with Pagans and the like on VirtualNet. :)
mh> You have a problem with pagans? And why is pagan capitolized? A
mh> pagan is a person that isn't a follower of Christianity, Islam, or
mh> Buddha. It's not a religion unto itself...
A Pagani is a follower of either the Pagani or Wicca religions. It is capitalized
since it is a personal pronoun.
From your willingness to publically express with authority your utter ignorance
I would first surmise that you're a Christian.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormons ARE Christians. Get over it.
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:42:43
EID:deff 22348555
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cdd
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32de68c7
PID: FM 2.02
sq> I had lunch with a guy from work today, and he got started on
sq> the Mormons. It was rather interesting putting all of his
sq> incorrect notions onto the scrap heap.
Is he a warring Christanic faction trying to pretend that other brands are
"wrong" while his brand is "right?"
sq> How many evangelicals out there believe that the Book
sq> of Mormon is some kind of "alternate Bible?" Raise your
sq> hands.
I've encountered that before many years ago when fundies came to the door.
They wanted to pretend that Mormons aren't Christianics because they "reject
the bible" and created their own.
My guess is that fundy bigots buy the lie.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormon lunacy: End Times are upon us again!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:47:50
EID:4e6b 223485f9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cde
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32de69a8
PID: FM 2.02
FR> when "Cain" killed "Able." I'm sure you also know that blacks aren't
FR> allowed to hold positions within their "priesthood..." Anyone who is
fr> part "mud people" isn't allowed to hold various positions within their
FR> priesthood.
sq> You might want to double-check that. If memory serves,
sq> that restriction was removed in the 1970s, after some hue
sq> and cry. Yes, I'll be more than happy to go look that up
sq> if someone can't cough up the facts either way. :)
A Mormon recalling that piece of race bigotry is about as trustworthy as
the KKK claiming to allow blacks into their priesthood.
"Okay, all yuh nigger mud-people. Come on in."
The Mormon brand hasn't changed their beliefs one iota in reguards race
bigotry. Post claims by the cult all you wish; I'll believe they've changed
when 20% or better of their "priesthood" consists of non-whites.
FR> Their anal focus on geneology makes perfect sense if they want to
fr> exclude "mud people" when the government asks them to step in and
fr> take over.
sq> I'm still laughing about all of the posthumously-baptized
sq> Roman Catholic pontiffs, including St. Pius X. :)
Bizarre Christanic rituals enacted upon the dead. Sick sick sick.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: joke
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:48:38
EID:15f9 22348613
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cdf
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32de6a16
PID: FM 2.02
>>> One, we stand to make $1 billion dollars.
>>> Two, we may loose the Wonderbread account..."
FR> I don't get it.
sq> "Give us this day our daily bread."
It still makes no sense. Why would picking up another franchise cause the
loss of the previous ones?
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Remember this one?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:56:34
EID:4cae 22348711
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce0
PID: FM 2.02
bb> shopping for a new car recently. Not only are they
bb> overpriced (every single car on the lot is $7,995--mind
bb> you, all these cars are pieces of shit as well), but he
bb> tried the hard fundie sell on us. Seemed kind of irked
bb> when we commented on where we could put the Darwin fish. ;)
bb> Needless to say, they were glad to see us go. =)
Reminds me of the sting operartion on car dealerships that 20/20 did which
caught a bunch of crooks on audiovideo tape cheating people. The best one
was the Christian dealership where the manager repeatedly demanded that
he could never cheat or be dishonest because he is a Christian.
Like all the rest, when he got his nose shoved in his own shit he fell mysteriously
silent and 20/20 couldn't buy a comment from the guys.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 20 Jan 97 16:59:16
EID:e24e 22348768
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce1
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73c38c34
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Isn't Walmart one of the most oppressive towards homosexuals?
FR> Er, known homosexuals, I mean. Don't they impose lie detector
FR> tests and if one refuses one doesn't get a job?
jjh> I may very well be mistaken (it has happened once or twice before),
jjh> but I seem to recall that it is no longer legal to make a polygraph
jjh> a prerequisite for employment. Of course, they can always use some
jjh> other method to "profile" applicants.
There's a notice posted where I work which states that it's not allowed
unless it's a federal government position, either contractor, subcontractor,
or direct. The notice says to turn in an employer who uses one.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Honor your parents. Or die!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:12:36
EID:dd14 22348992
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce2
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ddc25a
PID: FM 2.02
FR> ~*~ Luke 14:26 is pretty good: "Whoever comes to me and does not hate
FR> father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes,
FR> and even life itself, cannot be my disciple." (NRSV) See too, Matt.
FR> 19:29.
rs> Didn't the bible also say that parents should execute their
rs> annoying and rebellious children? And wouldn't this make the
rs> above quote a contradiction?
Yes, the Christianic mythologies call for children to be stoned to death
for not "honoring" their parents. We had a death cultist demand that a
couple of years ago that children who routinely get raped by their parents
and beaten and starved should still honor their parents.
It's no wonder the death cult has a priesthood consisting almost entirely
of pedophiles.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Baker
|Sub: Promise Keeper bigotry again
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:24:40
EID:9448 22348b14
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce3
REPLY: 1:18/14 32DDF6F3
PID: FM 2.02
cb> statement which, in addition to urging believers to participate, also
cb> implores them to "write, or fax your legislator that same day to let
cb> them know that you want justice for marriage."
Irony alert. "Justice for marriage" by denying others out of hatred and
bigotry.
cb> The rally was announced last week in the Hawaii Catholic Herald.
I don't see what the problem is. That should have negated their tax exemption
status immediately.
cb> A "Dear Friends in Christ"
Ironly alert #2. Sodomy rhetoric from homophobic bigots.
cb> letter from DiLorenzo warns that "If the Hawaii Supreme Court
cb> upholds that (same-sex marriage) decision, as they are likely
cb> to do, and if our state legislature does nothing, this state
cb> will be the first place in history to approve and endorse 'same
cb> sex marriage'."
Yes, I could see why fundies would "warn" of impending social progress.
cb> A Promise Keepers Rally In Honolulu
Speaking of bigots.
cb> Ironically, it was one of the more conservative and faith-driven
cb> Justices of the high court, Antonin Scalia, who disagreed.
Of course. It's wasn't a state-recognized Christian brand of occultism.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Trolling for Jesse!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:32:09
EID:99ba 22348c04
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce4
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32de3725
PID: FM 2.02
dc> A buck to the first post that elicits
dc> a response from Jesse Jones.
I can still smell you, Jesse.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealou
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:35:40
EID:9bce 22348c74
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce5
REPLY: 1:221/203 20b16362
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of
bj> exclusivity. This is the nature of man's relationship to
bj> God. This is the ultimate meaning of the verse "you shall
bj> not have other gods besides me."
FR> Just how many pencils do you go through "correcting" the
fr> Christian mytholog to fit your preconcieved notions, Brett?
bj> ...and so on...
Just keep penciling out the truth, Brett. Your day of judgement will come
for you.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson: Liar
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:40:21
EID:9de5 22348d0a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce6
REPLY: 1:221/203 20b16363
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort
bj> of exclusivity. This is the nature of man's relationship
bj> to God. This is the ultimate meaning of the verse "you
bj> shall not have other gods besides me."
FR> Another true believer rewrites his mythologies any way he wants.
bj> You owe me an apology Fredric.
Okay... Go fuck yourself with a dung clotted wooden spoon.
bj> Exodus 20:3, says "BESIDES me" in the New American Bible.
My, you _are_ an ignorant death cultist! Try using a copy of the classical
Christianic mythologies instead, not one rewritten by your death cult masters
to fit your preconceived bigoted notions. I would further suggest that
you pop that head of yours out of your ass long enough to actually read
it.
The classical Christanic mythologies specifically state that the Christanic
death gods wants worshippers to worship them _first_. It says nothing about
excluding all the others.
Your revisionism is an evil which helps keep your death cult one of the
most tyraniucal and bloody through all of recorded history.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous gods
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:42:54
EID:8d2d 22348d5b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce7
REPLY: 1:221/203 20b16364
PID: FM 2.02
>>> For something to be sacred, it has to have some sort of exclusivity.
>>> This is the nature of man's relationship to God. This is the ultimate
>>> meaning
fR> You presume to pretend that there is one god.
fr> That's easilly demonstrated false.
bj> I'd be interested in seeing WHY you're a polytheist...
FR> Your handicap would seem to be an inability to read. There are
fr> literally hundreds of thousands of gods and goddesses, Brett.
fr> That none of them (even yours) are evidenced to exist is besides
fr> the point.
bj> Sorry I misinterpreted you.
No you didn't.
bj> I have no such handi-cap...
Yes you do. You have a reading comprehension problem caused by your religious
occultism, hatred and bigotry.
bj> simply that I've encountered many neo-pagans.
What's at issue is your outrageous demand that there are only your gods
and that none others exist. Now that you've have the truth shoved up your
ass perhaps you'll be able to read it and learn from your betters.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:50:33
EID:16eb 22348e50
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce8
PID: FM 2.02
#include David Rice
AS> I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who
AS> doesn't CARE if you did good or bad...if you ask
AS> for forgiveness.
dr> That's very evil of you.
100% agreement. Anyone who thinks like you do is a danger to the health
of society.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:52:33
EID:f5d5 22348e90
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce9
PID: FM 2.02
AS> I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who
AS> doesn't CARE if you did good or bad...if you ask
AS> for forgiveness.
dr> That's very evil of you.
And they stamp their little foots and demand all the Christians who came
before them and are responsible for the tyrannies and inhuman slaughters
aren't Real True Christians. This one comes along and waves his little
magic wand and sets it all right.
And just fuck the uncounted millions who died under the swords of people
like Al.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absense of belief
|Date: 20 Jan 97 17:58:41
EID:0a6f 22348f54
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cea
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1f7781e7
PID: FM 2.02
AS>> You believe so?
RC> The evidence indicates as much. No belief required, you know.
AS> Well, I'm sorry you have meager abilities to educate people....
See, Robert, the problem is _yours_, not the fundy's.
rc> Only enough to educate those who are willing to learn.
There's an understatement. I was often annoyed by the kids in my classes
who came to school because they had to, not because they wanted to learn.
They shit on everyone else's educations and made the rest of us work harder.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Al's continued idiotic delusional rants
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:04:26
EID:e4a7 2234988d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ceb
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2055fb11
PID: FM 2.02
AS>> Dave Worrell similarly posting private email from Marilyn
AS>> Burge as a rather involved tagline. Doubtless, to be
AS>> consistent, you will defend that also.
RC> Doubtless you enjoy stirring as much shit as possible when
RC> it comes to Marilyn and anyone with whom she happens to have
RC> a dispute.
AS> Tsk. A simple, "I do not back Worrell
as> in that" would be more to the point.
rc> You just don't get the point, do you?
The guy actually seems to think that there is such a thing as private e-mail
when using Internet or FidoNet's routes. The only way email becomes private
in this technology is with encryption.
This issue has come up with The Skeptic Tank business. After I inform people
that I intend to use their fundamentalist rants in newsletters or quotes,
they start making demands and ranting about "private mail" that they want
to pretend they own copyrights to.
Fact is everything that comes in -- paper included -- becomes my property
or -- at extreme minimum -- subject to fair use extractions. If fundies
are embarrassed by what they believe, they shouldn't open their yaps.
Marilyn probably knows that email isn't private. It's damn rude to publish
direct email without the author's go-ahead, however.
~*~ Trust me when I tell you that if I know I'll end up in a mason jar
on a
shelf in a museum orbiting Pluto, I'll still follow a woman around a
barroom like a cur follows a bitch in heat. Honest. - David Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:10:32
EID:2686 22349950
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cec
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2055fb12
PID: FM 2.02
RC> Those who send long, boring rehashes of their public posts,
RC> as you did, Al, have no cause to complain if their rehashes
RC> are returned to the echo whence they originated to begin with.
AS> Keep justifying it to yourself, Robert.
as> Maybe you will eventually believe it.
rc> Behold the hurt puppydog!
Resentment has always been the primary motivational factor driving his posts.
He's better educated, more read, and far more literate than other fundies
so I think he is capable of understanding and feeling the hurt of having
his beliefs debunked utterly.
He's a higher quality of fundy yet still driven by the inability to reason.
No wonder he's always resentful.
~*~ We'll get his clown suit off some day, I promise you. - Steve Quarrella
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: wilbersex#2
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:12:05
EID:9555 22349982
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ced
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f610
PID: FM 2.02
JS> Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> befriends them. Go figure...
You are a fucking liar. Give me their names and mailing address. I have
some quotes of yours to mail to them.
~*~ At which point would you like me to start over? - Dave Schultz
Oh, when the doctor first spanked your ass would be a good place. - S.R.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:19:56
EID:6c3a 22349a7c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cee
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f618
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> Just think, with the way things are going in the United States,
FR>> _my_ way will eventually become the standard way. }:-}
RC> Then I most assuredly *WILL* shoot you.
GT> And miss, as your broadsides inevitably do.
rc> Especially as I don't own any firearms in the first place.
rc> Maybe, if I can just hold on long enough to the rifle I borrowed
rc> from Ed, Fredric might step into range once again.
Hell, I'll loan you one. There's a large selection to chose from, though.
What would you perfer to use? You wouldn't have to worry about picking
one that's difficult to trace since they are all registered to me and, in
any event, I would hope that they never find the body anyway.
~*~ Virgins give birth all the time! Yeah.
They just don't tip the stork. - Robert Curry
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Bill Wolff isn't to be trusted to guess my weight
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:28:14
EID:d511 22349b87
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cef
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ded93c
PID: FM 2.02
BW>> Someone dumped this into my Internet email inbox.
FR>> I don't believe you.
FR> He could stub his toe and report about it and I wouldn't believe him.
dw> If Billy told me the sky was blue, I'd go outside and check.
If Bill told me the Earth has a Moon I could call Griffith Observatory and
check.
{your turn} }:-}
FR> I wonder if he actually believes that anyone here is stupid
fr> enough as to fall for his Creationist bullshit.
dw> There is at least one person here that stupid. Billy himself.
You think Bill actually convinces himself eventually? Could be.
~*~ Christianity is evil by it's own standards. - Paul Feonic
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 20 Jan 97 19:58:35
EID:2094 22349f51
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf0
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32deea55
PID: FM 2.02
TE>> It would be the voice that says, " You have
te>> killed my people for our lands,
dw>> "Because we were too pathetic to defend our lands.."
FR> Actually because the domestic populace
fr> hadn't invented the repeating rifle.
dw> Isn't that what I just said?
Not quite. Provided in quantity the Winchester 1 of 1000 could have allowed
the domestic populace the chance to hold off their eventual genocide for
decades, perhaps soliciting foreign assistance from nations who might have
been more than willing to assist in exchange for fur, spice, mining, and
timber rights. (Mexico would probably have found such an alliance advantageous.)
They could have easilly have survived if given a chance.
Had the domestic Indian populace understood what was happening to them and
consolidated their efforts against the whites instead of against each other,
they might have managed to limit the amount of lands the whites took from
them and the Mexicans.
But they didn't understand what was happening to them. "Pathetic" didn't
factor into their genocide; the advent of superior technology and their
inability to understand that the white man was different did. By repeatedly
attacking wagon trains and lone wagons they forced military troops to spread
West with them.
They weren't genetically inferior or "pathetic."
FR> In fact on the 16'th I get to go to a gun show and I hope to see
fr> if I can find some information on the old Gyrojet revolver
dw> Heh.. I'd *really* like to have one of those. :)
Good luck finding ammunition for it! }:-}
Some of the pieces in the auction I would trade real money for... There
is a 7-shot flintlock revolving pistol by Nock up for auction. It's an
interesting piece. The rounded parts show heat discoleration the maker
decided not to cover over with blueing agents or processes -- it looks different.
And it's a flintlock. One can't easilly shove it into a pocket or a holster
and then expect to withdraw it quickly and start sending off rounds any
time soon. }:-}
I heard that there will be several Henry rifles for auction. I would bet
that any one of them will bring in over 1000 times what I typically pay
for my cars.
I intend to pick up some more knives.
~*~ Sorry, I must have misunderstood your question. I believe that the
Holy Spirit caused on of Mary's eggs to become a fetus without sperm.
- Steve Bedard
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Females in this "Christian Nation"
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:03:52
EID:4cc8 2234a07a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf1
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 55a23311
PID: FM 2.02
FR>ÿ@SUBJECT:Females in this Christian nation
BJ> The same situation exists for other sacred relationships in
bj> this life...the most akin to the "God-Man" relationship being
bj> that between the husband and wife.
FR> His rhetoric sounds like he's a Mormon.
kw> I'll bow to your greater knowledge here--all
kw> I saw was that it sounded sick to me.
It's a guess on my part working from exposure to Mormon churches some 20
years ago. They seem to always want to equate gods-men "relationships"
with husband-wife relationships so that they can place themselves in the
posistion of being their wife's gods. (Which, they believe, they will all
become eventually. The male ruleing their own planet, the wife pumping
out babies to send down to the planet. No shit.)
kw> Considering the number of abused wives in this so-called
kw> christian nations, that sure says a lot for your god.
FR> Consider what fundamentalists _want_ to do with women, though,
fr> and it gets much worse. Epidemic beatings is just the current
fr> manifestation. They would displace them from the work place.
FR> Then of course in Muslim-majority countries, it gets worse.
kw> Let the CC have their way, and it'll be just as bad here.
I have yet to see a Christian fundy admit that what they advocate is no
different than what they observed in Muslim fanatic countries.
"But that's DIFFERENT!"
~*~ Are you yet another product of "home schooling"? - J.J. Hitt
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Blast from the past
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:05:00
EID:f610 2234a0a0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf2
PID: FM 2.02
dr> Wanna see how sick some fundies are?
dr> http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page)
dr> http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (sicker than ever)
dr> /* Finest Christian porn on the 'Net */
What? Pictures of Ruck Limbaugh?
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Christians at Work
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:09:43
EID:1983 2234a135
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf3
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32de7beb
PID: FM 2.02
dm> Well, after a longish period of quiet, we've had two
dm> bombs at an abortion clinic in Atlanta this morning: anyone
dm> care to take the bet that the perp, if caught, will turn out
dm> to be a Real, True Christian?
There _are_ no other domestic terrorist organizations that engage in this
type of behavior. (Not even Earth First! -- yet.) No bet here.
dm> Are all of our rabid anti-abortion fundies accounted for?
The proper term for these terrorists is "pro-lifer."
~*~ I am free to think any way I please. I Corinthians 6:12. - Jim Staal
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bill Wolff isn't to be trusted to guess my weight
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:14:10
EID:1ebc 2234a1c5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf4
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dee868
PID: FM 2.02
dc> Get it straight, Billy-boy. No one believes a single
dc> thing that you post as being remotely factual.
FR> I wonder if he actually believes that anyone here is
fr> stupid enough as to fall for his Creationist bullshit.
dc> Errr, Fredric, you forgot that Staal is still posting here.
dc> Jimbo believes everything if you nail a godling to it.
Yeah? So I could rope a godling to the Washington Monument, show it to
Stall, and he would be dumb enough to buy it?
~*~ I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who doesn't CARE[sic]
if you did good or bad...if you ask for forgiveness. - Al Schroeder
(Expressing one of the reasons Christianity is supremely evil. Fuck
the fact that the ___VICTIMS___ of Christians are the only ones with
the power to forgive them.)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Point to you
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:15:37
EID:c841 2234a1f2
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf5
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32defa9b
PID: FM 2.02
dc> I'd like to participate, but I have this revolt going on in
dc> the Beta Indian Nations Quadrant than needs quelling.
FR> Don't you mean there's a revolt in India that needs _fomenting_?
FR> You're a god, after all. Behave like one!
dc> I am. That's exactly why this controversy is happening!
Woops! Point to you.
~*~ No, these things all happened because you shouted it out that you were
gay. If you had kept it to yourself, these things would not have
happened to you, now would they. - Jim Staal
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bill quotes Sagan again!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:24:30
EID:126f 2234a30f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32df7c8e
PID: FM 2.02
BW> You must be referring to someone else. As I'm not a fundy and I can
BW> be shown trustworthy if people like you would get off of your ass
FR>
dc> It was a good thing I didn't have a full bladder at the
dc> time I read his message or I'd have been in big trouble.
It _is_ a shame that evolution favored the untrustworthy spinicher value,
huh?
dc> You are a demonstrated liar, Billy-boy.
dc> You are also a demonstated flake.
Oh but he'll _prove_ he's not a lying asshole! He'll misquote Sagan again!
FR> For a clown who continually demands he's not a Creationist, he
FR> certainly has their method of operation down pat, huh?
dc> I love it when he rants and raves about
dc> how he did not misquote Sagan.
It's even more funny in a digital forum where copies are 100% accurate in
their reproduction and storage. It's not like in the past where a fundy
got to make a claim and got to deny the accuracy of what they said later.
~*~ The Cross is the only hope for the world. - Charles Rollins
Only if we put more Christians on the things. - David Worrell
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Lee W. Take up a collection!
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:30:51
EID:4cc4 2234a3d9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf7
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32df8089
PID: FM 2.02
FR> If we can get a collection to get him to do it at HolySmoke
FR> Convention, I would pay up big bucks to the contribution. The MGM
FR> Grand Hotel should be tall enough.
dc> Bobby Kneivel! Move over! You've been
dc> replaced by a pseudo-realist.
Youbetcha. We get any movie studio interested or simply sell the videotape
to any studio who wants a copy of a live suicide. (A live suicide.
Surreal.)
His death would be good publicity for HolySmoke.
dc> You know, I think the MGM would look favorably on the deal.
dc> After all, their only investment to get a cut from the
dc> proceeds would be the cleanup crew to scrape Lee off of the
dc> sidewalk, errr "Big Pillow".
They would make _millions_ off the deal. Get every New Age quack Quantum
metafundy to place bets that he'll change reality and survive. They could
offer 100 to 1 odds to really rake in the Holographic Universe Weenies.
As for the mess, that's easy. We spread butcher block paper everywhere
then simply roll it up and burn it all at the dump later.
~*~ I have God himself. - Rick Gordon
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:32:46
EID:dba1 2234a417
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf8
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dff8ff
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Intimidation out of fear is what drives
fr> Christianity; what makes it successful.
sq> I wonder if this accounts for many of the "good things"
sq> that certain Fundamentalist Christians do during the month
sq> of December.
Just ask any Republican now that the Party has been taken over by Christian
zealots.
sq> Jesse, you out there? Anything to add?
I do believe you're trying to get his Goat. }:-}
~*~ I, as an Elder in His church, have the authority
and power of God." -- Ric Remington (Mormon fundy)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Jesse Jones
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:39:58
EID:c8ee 2234a4fd
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cf9
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dff8ff
PID: FM 2.02
sq> Jesse, you out there? Anything to add?
Another thing...
Though Jesse is most likely still reading, when he finally _does_ get driven
to respond I will bet you a buck that he makes noises about how "someone"
forwarded a comment to him through email and he decided to respond.
And another buck says that he would end his resentment-filled rant with
some remark about not bothering to respond since he's "still" not here.
Very convieniently forgetting to mention who the "someone" was who emailed
him and ignoring all the requests for a name later.
Bets? Place your bets?
~*~ I believe in family with my ever loving wife beside me. She don't
know about my girl friend -- or the man I met last night - GENESIS
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Obscene Christianic rituals
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:41:25
EID:e534 2234a52c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cfa
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32dff948
PID: FM 2.02
sq> [In utero baptism]
FR> You've ___got___ to be kidding! They
fr> don't actually do this, do they?!
sq> Why not? You and I are acquainted with
sq> some people who baptize -dead- people.
But this one runs the risk of killing both victims. Dead people (while
being unable to complain) at least have the benefit of not suffering from
further obscene Christian rituals.
~*~ This ain't the harmony echo, dipshit. - Robert Curry
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: THINK ABOUT IT TWO
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:46:26
EID:b790 2234a5cd
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cfc
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e04ab8
PID: FM 2.02
> (Cont. from previous post.)
> (From G.K. Chesterton's ORTHODOXY)
Your own lengthy, illiterate shitfests are bad enough, you evil goon. Why
don't you go back to your dark closet and kneel down in fear with your buddy
Staal and bow down to your willful ignorance?
Leave your intellectual and moral superiors out of your potty problems.
~*~ What did you expect in Hell? Altar boys and holy water??? - C. B.
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Al's deliberate delusions
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:56:15
EID:5997 2234a707
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cfd
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67043
PID: FM 2.02
FR>> ~*~ EVERYONE FROM THE SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST.
FR>> - Christopher Calabrese
as> I don't usually comment on taglines, but what the hey, since it
as> was obviously to get my goat. All I can say is that you just
as> also maligned Robert Curry, David Worrell, Mike Hardy, and
as> many another participants here.
rc> Oh, the horror of it! I feel so _maligned_. LOL!
The stupid idiot probably thinks that all the quotes here are picked manually
from a list to specifically try to insult the intended reader. Man, that
clown hasn't a clue. He would ___love___ to be considered important enough
to have taglines tailored to him.
Yet the most effort I afford to shit is to scrape it off my shoes.
as> Me, I'm laughing at you.
rc> I'm laughing, too. It will be left as an exercise
rc> for the reader to figure out "at whom" though.
Gee. Now let me guess... It's a tough one.
FR> The quotes are pseudo-randomly selected, you ignorant death cult
FR> fundy. The source code is available here as QUOTES.ZIP -- there
FR> is no facility for selecting quotes for particular messages.
rc> But you did it on purpose. Al said it, so we must all
rc> believe it. He is infallible. He knows all. And he
rc> sometimes even believes it himself.
Then he must believe I have strange powers and abilities superior to those
he gives his deity constructs. If he wants to believe that I can effect
changes in pseudo-random number generators, that's ___far___ superior to
what his deity constructs can do.
The guy's a truely pathetic moron.
FR> You want to pretend that I'm trying to "get your goat..."
rc> There are an awful lot of goats around here, lately.
}:-} Yes. My back yard isn't big enough for those that I have gotten so
far.
~*~ As far as "making the world a better place..." we don't do that here.
- Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: demonic pacts
|Date: 20 Jan 97 20:58:41
EID:6c3a 2234a754
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cfe
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67045
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Look at what's happening, though. "Where are my
FR> glasses," black lipstick, one-inch plastic guns, ebonics...
FR> hell; we're already there.
rc> Idiocy is nothing new. My sole concern is with your
rc> horrific spelling (of which there are no examples above,
rc> so maybe things are looking up).
Actually, were I to go through the old old old HolySmoke archives on 5.25
inch floppies, I would be able to show quite an improvement. What I could
use is a spelling program for my FrontDoor editor.
FR> Come shot me. }:-}
rc> For shots, you must decide: Bourbon or Scotch? Which for you?
Well, as much as I admire Marty head and shoulders above all others here,
I'magonna have to pick... Diet Coke!
~*~ If you had just stayed home in your closet, they would never have
known that you are Black, (oh wait, that wasn't it), Jewish?, ... I
forgot, what is your crime? - Jack O'Neill
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: False Tooth Fairy Scum
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:01:00
EID:a8b2 2234a820
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107cff
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e6704d
PID: FM 2.02
JB> I have never been the Tooth fairy.
DR> Quantum physics demonstrates that there is a Tooth Fairy,
DR> and that there is only one.
rc> As contrasted with there being exactly two of Ciya.
Symmetry remains unbroken, I see.
DR> Don't blame me if you don't understand the math that proves it.
rc> Don't look at me.
Brawley reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbs cartoon where Calvin proceeds
to make some outrageous claim and then tells his teacher not to bother with
"the math and such" since it's too complicated to understand.
~*~ Running DOS on a system with 16 megs is like using the Bible as a
guide for day to day life. - C. J. Henshaw
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Brett Johnson: liar
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:05:41
EID:9de5 2234a8b4
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107d00
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e042f2
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> "Elohim", among other things, was a Hebraism to refer to a judge.
There's just no lie and willful deception you won't try, huh? When it's
done for your gods there's nothing you won't lie about, huh?
Elohim, you lying fundy, is the title of a panethon of gods -- plural.
"The Coming of the Elohim" refers to the coming of the gods.
I can understand your need to lie to yourself. Your masters program you
people to believe that you have only one god while at the same time they
try to make you believe the classical Christanic mythologies which gives
you an unknown number of gods and goddesses.
Look up "cognative disonance" if your masters will let you.
~*~ God loves you. He can free you from the horrible temptations of your
social disorder. - Johnny Mckinney (Talking about homosexuality)
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson: Liar
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:07:35
EID:c42d 2234a8f1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107d01
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e042f2
PID: FM 2.02
Brett Johnson
BJ> "Elohim", among other things, was a Hebraism to refer to a judge.
dc> Wrong. "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloh". "Eloh" is
dc> the Hebraic for god. "Elohim" therefore is _gods_.
Typical Christian trying to rewrite his mythologies. First he finds a version
of the classical Christanic mythologies which has his "commandments" rewritten
to remove that embarrassing truth about other gods ___before___ the Christanic
pantheon. Now he pencils in another excuse to deny the number of gods he's
been saddled with.
Brett, you're a fucking lunatic.
~*~ Take a hard look at the Grand Canyon. try to explain
that through evolution. - Freddie Cash
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:15:30
EID:47e3 2234a9ef
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107d02
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e051ed
PID: FM 2.02
FR> This is an aspect of Christianity that I find so evil: Christianity
FR> survives only on misery, ignorance, desperation, fear, hatred,
dc> It's beginning to look just that way.
Not too many years ago I thought there was some good in it. I've learned
that there's nothing about religion which is lacking among atheists which
likewise is done for superior moral reasons.
They give their masters their money to avoid the punishment of their Elohim
all the while trying to convince themselves that they're doing it because
they're good people who would "donate" money to a good cause anyway.
Fact is they know that 90% of the money they shell out disappears without
a trace whereas had they donated to real charities there's some accounting
for it all.
FR> doing. I also think that the problem will get worse and worse as they
FR> try vainly to foment ever more misery to keep membership numbers up
as
FR> people leave the mainstream brand names in droves.
dc> I'm not sure how doing that would help them.
Scratch a born-against fundy and find a hard-luck story full of misery and
woe. I think that deliberately fomenting misery among the populace guarentees
continued membership.
A happy, healthy populace needs no gods.
~*~ If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless. - Robert
Curry
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:21:48
EID:bf62 2234aab8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107d03
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e0563b
PID: FM 2.02
dc> Any and all Stupid Staal Fiasco Messages will be saved. Comments
dc> on them will we tallied and the the one with the most votes
FR> Oh! Oh! Pick me! Pick me! I got some!
dc> Some? Aren't you the master of understatement.
I would pick but the most vile and submit those.
FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
dc> Shit, that blows a current message
dc> he just sent right out of the water.
This is a guy who just claimed (in a message I read today, any way) that
he has several "gay friends." I asked the fucking liar for their names
and addresses so I can send them examples of his hate and bigotry.
FR> "I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem
FR> to particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart
dc> And, yet another one.
These quotes actually tell us a great deal more about the guy than he would
probably want us to know.
FR> ...there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
FR> would have mentioned it. - Jim Staal (he's serious, by the way)
dc> And a classic act of hari-kiri by the idiot.
With a butter knife.
dc> Well, you get five votes, equally split, though.
Wait another 30 days... after he denies saying any of them I should deserve
an additional 5.
FR> Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and filthy
FR> participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
dc> He's gone off of the deep end and
dc> has tied lead weights around his neck.
I really wish he would -- and take his fellow fundies with him.
dc> Thing is, there's more lead in his head
dc> than there is in the keel of your boat.
I don't think my boat has any. David's boat, however, has a couple of thousand
pounds of the stuff.
~*~ I'm not a liar David the freak! Please show any evidence where
I lied, David the dick head! - Bill Wolff
ROTFL! That'll sure make people forget you lied! - David Rice
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* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Al's religious evil
|Date: 20 Jan 97 21:40:36
EID:614b 2234ad12
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107d04
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a107ce9
PID: FM 2.02
I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who doesn't CARE[sic]
if you did good or bad...if you ask for forgiveness.
Al would love to ignore the actual victims. Fuck the fact that only the
victims of Christians have the power to forgive them.
~*~ Thanks for allow me to post this Fido News! - Martin Riley
---
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealou
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:33:38
EID:01d7 22337420
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 e0fc2785
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e042f2
On (18 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Brett Johnson...
-> On 15 Jan 97 16:45:53, Brett Johnson got back to Fredric Rice
BJ> "Elohim", among other things, was a Hebraism to refer to a judge.
DC> Wrong. "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloh". "Eloh" is the Hebraic
DC> for god. "Elohim" therefore is _gods_.
Where in the world do these ignoramuses come from? They understand
without breaking a sweat that cherubim is the plural of cherub, and
that seraphim in the plural of seraph, but they get stuck on Elohim!
Wadda bunch of buffoons!
I cashed your check. thanks.
... Creationist: "Why yes. Rome _was_ built in a day."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:38:46
EID:93f0 223374c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 70ead3ec
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e04ab0
On (17 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to David Worrell...
AS> DW>> As far as I'm aware, no one has even come close to
AS> DW>> destroying the DW>> world.
AS> I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, Dave.
DW> Still not enough to destroy the world, Al. All human life,
DW> maybe, but the world would go on. I'm not surprised, though,
DW> that a Christian equates human society with the world.
AS> But a nuclear winter would kill off most animal life and a
AS> good deal of the plant life, also. It wouldn't extinguish
AS> life. But it would be a while before it bounced back.
AS> If it's not the end of the world, it'll do till the real
AS> things comes along.
1. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Sagan's nuclear
winter has been pretty well debunked.
2. Even if true, I doubt it would do more damage than any
ordinary, naturally caused ice age, which the remaining
organisms have a way of bouncing back from (we're here,
aren't we?).
... The only 4.0 you got in school was your blood alcohol content.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: meaning
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:54:14
EID:35e9 223376c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 41f3ebf8
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e6704c
On (17 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to LEE WOOFENDEN...
RC> LW>> I believe there is a God because I think the universe is a
RC> LW>> better and more sensible place with one than without one.
RC> Is that the kind of reasoning you would use to believe in a
RC> full course dinner behind a door, just because you would like
RC> to have one, and not because there is any actual evidence
RC> of one existing there?
LW> No. Because it might not be _good_ for there to be a full-course
LW> dinner behind the door, whereas I do think it is good for
LW> there to be a God.
Lemme get this straight. He believes there's a god because he
thinks the universe is better off with one than without one.
I believe that illness doesn't exist for EXACTLY the same reason.
Now, I'd like him to explain to me why my sister has been sick
for the past 20 years and is now dying.
... Possessor of a mind not merely twisted but actually sprained.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:04:50
EID:94d0 22337880
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 bb444c7c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a055b
On (18 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Al Schroeder...
CJ> Beginning to get the idea of one reason I'm no longer willing
CJ> to waste much of my time on you?
You asked a question! I SAW IT; you asked a question!
... I confess to an unatural, and abnormal act. I have programmed a computer.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:05:48
EID:3f20 223378a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a0f8980c
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a05d2
On (18 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Marilyn Burge...
CJ> On 14 Jan 97 06:38am, MARILYN BURGE wrote to DON MARTIN:
CJ> Semmelweis. Just like the med students of Vienna were doing
CJ> Ob/Gyn immediately after doing their dissections, one could
CJ> suppose Martin's priests might be doing their baptizism after
CJ> chrisming the dead.
I suspect the truth is even worse than you imagine. I suspect the
priest is using the same turkey baster on all the women, without
cleaning it between trips. I also suspect they are getting sepsis
from the water that is used, as it probably comes from the dipping
bowl in the church that everybody else is using day after day to
cross themselves.
... "Taglines: Your last chance to really piss off the other guy!"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 15:40:12
EID:e0dd 22337d00
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7bcdc097
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cfbf15
On (16 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg babbled to Al Schroeder...
MG> When I first went into molecular biology, I was given the
MG> seemingly impossbile task of starting with nothing and
MG> producing proteins produced in a bacterial orgnaism that
MG> can't even be cultivated. Not only is it done, but we have
MG> moved on to other more difficult projects.
MG> The prayer question is logs more difficult to perform.
I STILL say it's impossible. You've got two groups, one that the
committee memebers pray for, the other that are given the same
level of care, but no committee members are praying for them.
1. How do we know a family member isn't praying for a merciful
end for somebody in the prayed-for group?
2. How do we know that a family member isn't praying for a cure
for somebody in the not-prayed-for group?
Add to that all your concerns about matching maladies in the two
groups, matching level of care in the two groups, and matching
degrees of sickness in the matching maladies, and you've got a
clear impossibility.
... Wreck the malls with cows on Harleys...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:24:56
EID:2e0a 22338300
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8df0b791
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e156c6
On (18 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Glen Todd...
-> On 17 Jan 97 15:50:02, Glen Todd got back to Al Schroeder
DC> DC>> As it stands, 1/2 of the world is given secondary class
DC> recognition DC>> by the religion you hold.
GT> It's a good deal more than half, Dan -- and growing.
DC> So, just how many more females are born as compared to males?
DC> I knew it was a couple of percentage points. Has that increased?
At birth, there are 51 males for every 50 females. But, males
are more apt to die in the first year. Then teenage nonsense
like playing chicken behind the wheel takes over a widens the
gap even further. It used to be that war widened it even more
after that, but that hasn't been so lately. Then, in old age,
men die sooner than women by about 5 years.
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Where do they do it?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 16:29:48
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On (19 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Glen Todd...
DC> That's it, pretty much across the board with that cult. Try
DC> reading _The Mind of the Believer_ for more on their psychological
DC> profile. ^
Bible
... A clash between the Yugo of belief and the Kenworth of reality.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: truth
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:57:00
EID:178b 2232bf20
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e29ee62
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Marty.
AS> I don't
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
AS> Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.
RM> Why not?
ML> It is not honorable to slay one's enemies whilst they're
ML> convulsed in laughter.
But when it comes down to a choice between honour and a damn effective
battle tactic, which one do you think the average Celt would go for?
Take care.
... It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver. - La Fontaine
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
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|From: Fane
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Isaiah 53:7 / Matthew 27:12
|Date: 19 Jan 97 14:26:10
EID:e22e 22337340
PID: GED3 2.51.a1026 UNREG
MSGID: 1:170/853 32e22f1b
18 Jan 97 15:33, Leonard Bernier wrote to All:
LB> PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be sitent before his accusers.
LB> "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did open His mouth."
* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LB> FULFULLMENT: "And while He was being accused by the chief priests and
LB> elders, He answered nothing."
* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Looks to me like this prophecy-fullfullment was just plain WRONG.
LB> Since the Lord is directing our steps, why try to understand
LB> everything that happens along the way ?
Hell, if you say so. :)
--- {Mnemonic Oubliette} ---
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|From: Stuart Lumgair
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 18 Jan 97 20:12:02
EID:88ee 2232a180
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 2e192112
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd877b
Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Stuart Lumgair:
SL> Yes, but zero does not exist as a natural number.
SL> Claiming to see zero birds in a tree is the same as
SL> seeing zero pink unicorns in the same tree. Both are
DC> So, just how many birds or unicorns are there in the
DC> tree if there are no birds or unicorns in that tree?
There are none. None is not a number. Once you pre-suppose that there must
be some nuber of creatures in the tree, you
get to create the number zero in order to mathematically
represent none. Zero is merely a mathematical repressentation of nothingness,
void, et cetera.
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
--- timEd-B9
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|From: Stuart Lumgair
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 18 Jan 97 20:16:50
EID:a43b 2232a200
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 2e192114
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21347758
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to STUART LUMGAIR:
DC> Without zero, negative numbers do not fit in with the
DC> positive intergers.
SL> Exactly. Negative numbers do not exist in nature.
And when did we start mixing negative numbers
and integers. Negative integers may not fit in
the Whole Number set.
RC> Neither do positive numbers, if you are going to be picky
RC> about it (and please do be picky, as that's the best way to
RC> do math).
Please explain how positive numbers do not exist.
I don't think I ever made it to that level of
mathematics. I am sure it exists, I just never
got that far.
SL> They are both intelectual constructions.
RC> That comment applies equally to every number without
RC> exception. All of the integers are abstractions which
RC> describe the common property of cardinality.
Not true, some numbers are more equal than others .
At a much higher level of conceptualization this does
turn out to be true. I am merely playing with grade 4
mathematic sets. At the earliest levels of the concept
of numbers, zero did not exist, nor did negitive numbers,
fractions, and all that other fun stuff :) Later
conceptionaliztions do not invalidate the earlier
ones, they merely add to our methods of working with
numbers.
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
--- timEd-B9
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:39:34
EID:d130 22334ce0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 5e2e246d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cf15c0
16 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Martin Goldberg to Ed Mills:
MG> MG>> DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson
MG> MG>> DR>> very ugly.
MG> MG>> You die.
EM> Make that two corpses. Yuck! But, then again, I like
EM> Channing, so I got no room to talk. :)
MG> I'd rather screw a dead dog.
MG> My father was always in love with Carol Channing (in her salad days).
MG> I have no idea why.
The "Stockard" got edited out, for some reason. Not Carol.
Now I have to go puke again.
Did you see "Kingpin?" There's a funny scene where Harrelson
hugs porcelain after screwing his hideous landlady for the rent.
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: idle
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:43:40
EID:f2b2 22334d60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 30abcd9a
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 cbdd0e2e
19 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marilyn Burge to Ed Mills:
EM> O god of atheism, I beseech thee:
EM> Send more paramedics!
EM> edweird
MB> You could have solved the problem by getting saved while you were
MB> gone, ya know.
But I am of insufficient economic means to obtain the prerequisite
lobotomy, and I never ride motorcycles without a helmet.
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:44:54
EID:291d 22339580
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2c548152
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 0f23203e
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jim Staal to Domino:
JS> much more meaningful and true than the mere physical. Here is my
JS> proof:
JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
The occult belief systems of other cultures also have their mystical
books of purported history, printed on official-looking crinkly
parchment. Undoubtedly they all have paragraphs like the above,
advising the reader that the contents are "God-breathed."
You call this "proof" because your feelings tell you it is so after
having read it. Millions of subscribers to other cults feel the same
way about their superstitions.
"It's in a book, it makes me feel good because it's authoritarian and
sternly compelling, (see also: rebuke, correcting, cat-o-nine tails,
rubber bondage fetishism, etc.) and it fits my perceptions of the
universe, so it must be true."
Reasoning like that being commonplace, I marvel daily at the fact we
haven't managed to succeed at self-eradication much more quickly
than at the rate of our present attempts.
JS> And as the Holy Spirit confirms it to my heart, I need no further
JS> 'evidence'.
Hey! How come there's no law against intellectual suicide, but it's
still illegal to do it with a vacuum cleaner hose and a Buick? :)
edweird
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 17:52:40
EID:5e85 22338e80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5e127
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a05d2
CJ> Semmelweis. Just like the med students of Vienna were
CJ> doing Ob/Gyn immediately after doing their dissections, one
CJ> could suppose Martin's priests might be doing their
CJ> baptizism after chrisming the dead.
Ignaz Phillip Semmelwiess was born in Pesth, Hungary. He was ridiculed
for his stance on germ theory in Vienna and later in Germany. He was dubbed
"The Pesth Fool".
By the time everyone found out that he was right, it was being said that
the Pestch Fool was a german.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 19 Jan 97 17:55:04
EID:7b08 22338ee0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5e777
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a0649
CJ> There's still a merry controvery over the geographical
CJ> origins of syphilus. Even if one assumes it were "New World" in
CJ> origin, the proportion killed was rather less than that in the
CJ> "New World" by smallpox, much less other diseases. [Of course,
CJ> smallpox was helped along by Puritan blankets.]
Syphilis was unheard of until the men on Columbus' ships returned fromt
he New Wrold with it. In that day, it was a childhood disease of congenital
nature caused by the forebearer of the present day veneral organism Treponema
pallidum. It was probably the basis of autoimmune disfiguration much like
the close cousins of Syphilis, Yaws and Pinta. Also caused by spirochetes
these are third world diseases that are likely more inline with what syphilis
originally was.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:05:52
EID:7710 223390a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f5fc90
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e14c2c
P> But no, He shall be coming, and very soon.. But even if it
P> wasn't true, so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what
P> if non-Christians are wrong? What do they lose? A great deal
P> more..
Pacal's Wager was shown to be fallible years ago.
What if you ARE wrong? Which other god is going to be pissed at you?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Show the relevance, Fred. Go on. Do it. We're waiting. Go ah
|Date: 19 Jan 97 18:09:22
EID:b753 22339120
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73f6053a
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32e10a71
LW> I will pay _you_ (or anyone else) $100 if you can either 1)
LW> explain how the experiment is useful in corroborating or
LW> falsifying the theory I presented earlier, or 2) explain how
LW> the experiment would be capable of demonstrating to others
LW> that my "deity construct" exists or does not exist. (These
LW> are two distinct issues.)
Your challenge is saved to disk. So that everything is PRECISELY clear,
please state the theory you presented earlier.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Pick on poor mike
|Date: 15 Jan 97 16:58:16
EID:30b1 222f8740
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0a11f
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32d87238
AS> You're absolutely right...no one should become a believer out of
AS> guilt, or out of fear. No one should join just because they
AS> want to be with a relative after death. But I see it as it
AS> added perk, as it were, but not te motivation for bieng a
AS> believer.
And what iws your reason?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:00:51
EID:38ba 222f8800
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0ab2b
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 8b58a3cc
MB> Actually, I found it amusing. IT WAS DEAD! She was BAPTIZING A
MB> HUNK OF DEAD MEAT! That kind of superstition leaves me baffled,
MB> and wondering how she had enough mental horsepower to drive to
MB> work that morning, let alone enough to get through nursing
MB> school.
I'll catch shit for this, I know, but I seldom have found a profession so
totally devoid of original thought as nursing. Nursing requires knowledge
and a prescried set of rules...but original thought is right out. Those
nurses who have an ounce of intelligence move on to do other things including
being managers and the like. If you only knew some of the stupid questions
I've had over the years from these people.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Ceppa has his head up his ass again. Oh. That's his normal s
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:09:49
EID:d040 222f8920
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0bdfb
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 a5bdb6ba
BW> I've never said that Carl Sagan was creationists. What I did say
BW> is that I agree with Carl Sagan completely. And when Carl
BW> Sagan admits that the fossil record could be consistent with
You are a liar. Carl does not believe in any designer. Read the gawddamned
article again illy.
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:11:42
EID:00be 222f8960
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0d106
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 ccda00e1
BW>> Carl Sagan didn't claim that evolution had positively had
BW>> taken place!
MG>> You wnat to be treated like you're not a fundy? OK, explain
MG>> why you said the above. Carl Sagan most explicitly said
MG>> that evolution has occured int eh past and does so today.
BW> No you don't seem to understand. As I know that evolution is a
BW> fact, but evolutionary theory is what is in question. Sure,
BW> species may have changed by changing conditions by natural
BW> means. Although Carl Sagan also admits that species may have
BW> been changed by "... Designer of a more remote and indirect
BW> temperament." And thus is only one of many reasons why I
BW> feel that we should question the evolution theory. Thus if
BW> the pieces don't fit all nicely (of which it doesn't), then
BW> we shouldn't accept this belief as a fact, like you and many
BW> others do just like a fundy. Which makes you and others to
BW> be no better than they are.
What you are saying, in effect is only what every scientist does. Question
his own work. Yet in the sentence above, you make a positive statement.
Carl Sagan most certainly has said that evolution has taken place.
I suggest that you read some more of his stuff, Fundy and not just the stuff
that your church masters let you read.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Bill quotes Sagan again!
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:19:58
EID:bfdd 222f8a60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0d50c
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 531b1f46
In a msg on , Bill Wolff of 1:115/769.2 writes:
BW> On (02 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Bill Wolff...
BW>> JsnowNYT: Dr. Sagan, a question from Diaspar about religion:
BW>> Is it necessary to not believe in God to be scientific?
BW>> CarlSagan1: It depends entirely on what you mean by God.
BW>> But, being scientific merely means depending on evidence.
BW>> We don't believe...
Sagan never answered the question. REad it again and get some comprehension
this time.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Bill Wolff
|Sub: Bill Wolff: silly guy!
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:22:51
EID:fa6c 222f8ac0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73c0de85
REPLY: 1:115/769.2 5d99306b
BW> You're still naive and clueless after all of these years, eh
BW> David? I never said that Carl Sagan supports the belief that
BW> a creator made everything. I merely pointed out that Carl
BW> Sagan candidly admits that "a Designer of a more remote and
BW> indirect temperament" could of done so. Why is this fact so
BW> hard for you to understand? Are you really this clueless and
BW> stupid as you appear to be?
Bullshit...this is NOT what you said at all. Lets review just what you
said:
> > BW> Okay where do you want me to start? How about with Carl
> > BW> Sagan? In his book Cosmos, he candidly admits "The fossil
> > BW> evidence could be consistent with the idea of a Great
> > BW> Designer."
Look at what you quoted. It is entirely different from what you are quoting
now. There are no qualifiers such as you are posting now.
You seem to be lying again, Wolff.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Feeble human cattle
|Date: 15 Jan 97 17:30:41
EID:d103 222f8bc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf11f6
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32d8772c
RS> My partner and I have just got to get together with the famous
RS> Glodbreg and all three of us can meet John Harvath together :)
Havrath is long gone (the message youquoted is MONTHS old). I find that
when push comes to shove, the boys that want to get overly feisty don't
want to do it in person. I never had one meet me down at DFW airport yet.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:16:36
EID:162a 22309a00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf15c0
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 a5a77dfa
MG>> DR>> watching the show. I found (and find) Loni Anderson
MG>> DR>> very ugly.
MG>> You die.
EM> Make that two corpses. Yuck! But, then again, I like
EM> Channing, so I got no room to talk. :)
I'd rather screw a dead dog.
My father was always in love with Carol Channing (in her salad days). I
have no idea why.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:44:17
EID:4f33 22309d80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf5752
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32d8d5c4
MG>> I will. I just need to find better targets than helpless
MG>> pagans.
DW> One takes what one can get.
You should a/f Flame and watch as the morons are taken apart. The last
one got a pizza sent to his house at midnight just for being a fool.
Show up and ask for Jack Kinney.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:51:15
EID:dddb 22309e60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf6ad3
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2dabe5c5
MG>> And your point is?
MM> The point is that Steve seems to be of these painfully
MM> PC-correct South Africans not seeing anything wrong with
MM> barbaric religious customs - as long as he sees it as
MM> RELIGIOUS, come hell or high water.
I am far from being an animal activist. I routinely use rabbits, mice and
rats in research with absolutely no qualms. However, no matter what might
be learned fromt he experiment, I doubt that our committee would give us
the permission to carry out anything like was described here.
If anyone thinks that there is any good thta comes from this, they need
to see a shrink.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Bill Wolff: silly guy!
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:56:38
EID:3df5 22309f00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf77ea
REPLY: 1:102/735.0 222d83e8
MK> Sagan didn't say that, though, Billy. He said that the fossil
MK> evidence is not inconsistent with that, not that one "could
MK> of done so" [sic]. Then he went on to explain that there is
MK> a much better explanation, didn't he?
MK> You're busted all over again... :-)
Billy is one amazing guy. When present evidence of his lies, he ignores
them and goes on to tell us that he has been a big, bad, atheist all along
and that we had him all wrong. He's been busted so many times in the past
few months that he looks like Madonna's pussy.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:03:28
EID:44f9 2230a060
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf82b6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32da4b22
DC> They may make more movies today, but few of them, if any, can
DC> be rated as a classic. Very few movies are worth a first
DC> viewing, let alone a re-watch.
Amen, Brother.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Warring christanic factio
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:07:55
EID:c89a 2230a0e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cf9e70
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0f76
GtP> Alright. You are the geneticist. Have you never seen any
GtP> evidence that plants respond to external stimuli? As I said,
GtP> I've read a number of articles. I have been doing some web
GtP> searches and will be happy to share what I find. I will continue
GtP> to maintain, however, that plants respond by changing their
GtP> growth patterns and, when I can find some of the things I
GtP> remember reading in addition to the cabbage story, even perhaps
GtP> even by ways measurable by electrodes.
I am not a geneticist. Genetidists are fat balding guys that smoke cigars...oops......at
any rate, my field is not genetics. Classical genetics would have little
to do with this.
If you set up your experiment very simply with a plant in one room with
Mozart playing and the other in antoehr room with none and then you look
for the differences, how do you go about it? Let's just say that one got
taller than the other int he alloted one month of time. You wnat to say
that the music did something.
Did you measure the temperature int he rooms? The air flow? The lighting
patterns? Are the light bulbs the same? Are there windows close by one
place and not the other? Are there people in one room and not the other?
What are all the variables that can contribute to the plant's well being?
Since we are doing the experiment to see about music we cannot mkae leaps
of fatih about anything else. Maybe music mixed with something else is
harmful tot he plant. This is my point. We do not KNOW the outcome and
we do not want to paint our target around our conclusions. When you do
your web search, look for studies where they do controls, where they are
interested in getting the facts rather than just making an assumption and
azily going about "proving" it to be true.
Good luck.
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:15:55
EID:c89a 2230a1e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfa02d
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32da0f96
MG>> "Gates of Delirium"
GtP> Martin, the idea of you correcting my spelling has
GtP> brightened my whole day.
I do my best. I can also do stand up comedy at your next Bar Mitzvah.
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:19:24
EID:03f3 2230a260
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfb18c
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32daf58c
DC>> "Here: Eat this jelly doughnut or I'll kill you."
AS> "Okay, here are two doors. One leads to a smorgasboard of
AS> delicious food, and beautiful music, and fine books, and
AS> pretty ladies. The other leads you to a sheer dropoff and
AS> you will die, horribly, falling twenty stories.
AS> "Your choice."
Excellent analogy. Pascal debunking at its finest. Pick the wrong (god)
door and you die.
You pick one or the other. If you pick wrong, you die. Your god holds
the gun of the wrong door at our heads. The real god would not make us
make such a choice but rather base our life's deeds on our admission to
eternal reward.
That would be a real god. All others are False God Scum.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:26:12
EID:3701 2230a340
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfbf15
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db03f8
MG>> population. But, as you point out, the variables here are
MG>> impossible to control for.
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether
AS> prayer actually works or not?
No. We could do the experiment with all the controls. Then let the statisticians
work out the data. But the thing would be expensive to do and statistical
results are always a grey area. You can never think of all the questions
to aks on the questionaire. The other variables that are impossible to
control will also be a gigantic headache.
When I first went into molecular biology, I was given the seemingly impossbile
task of starting with nothing and producing proteins produced in a bacterial
orgnaism that can't even be cultivated. Not only is it done, but we have
moved on to other more difficult projects.
The prayer question is logs more difficult to perform.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christians v Guns
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:30:11
EID:78d7 2230a3c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfc66b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db03fa
MG>> You should be scared of both equally.
AS> Nyaaahhh. But I know the people involved, you don't. Being
AS> purposely shot is not a big worry.
No. I mean that no one ever asked a corpse how it got so cold. It don't
make no nevermind how or who shot you. You're still dead.
REmember that dead is dead. Even in saviors.
MG>> You would be equally dead. I wonder why your god would let
MG>> a two year old accidentally find a gun left out by a
MG>> careless owner and shoot the owner or worse, a brother or
MG>> sister.
AS> Because we invent engines of destruction and then leave them out
AS> for infants to play with. The same reason I didn't expect
AS> God to stop us from atom bombing ourselves to death.
No way, Al. This is a cop out of infinite magnitude. Free will is just
fine if you do something that hurts or kills yourself. But when you leave
your gun out for a kid to find it goes beyond a godgiven free will. It
is murder and if your god gave the free will and does nothing about the
innocents that suffer, then he should go on trial too.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:34:05
EID:034c 2230a440
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfce14
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db040a
AS> No; I'm pointing out that belief is necessary even to what we
AS> experience, in what is manifast. To Joan of Arc, voices from
AS> Heaven are manifast. Do you accept those implicitedly?
AS> Everything you "know" you perceive by your senses. Are your
AS> senses always right?
Sorry, Al. It's the same damned thing we've gone through with Lee W. You
want to give evidence of reality? Jump off the building. The sidewalk
will shoow you reality.
I have seen enough sidewalks that I need not do the experiment. Their reality
is manifest.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:44:05
EID:ff4d 2230a580
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73cfe39c
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 d5550d60
Re: Your discussion of the "gleeps".
If you cna find one, get the 1996 Far Side Calendar by Jim Larsen (the one
that you pull off each successive day) and look at July 8.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Norman Solomon
|To: All
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 14 Jan 97 18:59:00
EID:05a4 222e9760
MSGID: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org ca663054
Hi all
Picked up this echo the other day after hearing a lot about it.
I am new to Fidoland, but that's about all that I am new to, being
from the generation that had flowers in their hair (I can still do
that but I would need scotch tape to keep them in place these days).
I would call myself a Christian, but most fundies prob would'nt
agree.
I am very interested in other peoples point of view, and I like this
mediam as one hear's from the horses mouth so to speak. Much of
what I see posted about what a Christian is, or is not, seems quite
alien to me.
I would like to hear from Native American's about their beliefs,
living in England all I know at the moment is gleened from
Hollywood, therefore I know less than nothing.
Any group/cult/belief/non-belief system is of interest, but I would
prefer to hear from people who can speak from personal experience.
I look forward to some great debates.
Norman
======
Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
- Fido NetMail - (2:2501/217)
Caution! --------> Dyslexic Author - |||||||||||||||||
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:23:10
EID:c4f9 223272e0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e1312e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 b9eb1658
MB> ... If we honor the rights of gays then everyone
MB> else will want rights too!
Such as womans rights? (grin)
Brian
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: BAR Letter to the editor
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:25:30
EID:abec 22327320
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e131ba
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ccddd1f6
Hello Marilyn,
MB> The same thought occurred to me when I read about all those sites
MB> that are being excavated. I'm still thinking about possibly going
MB> on a dig when I retire and don't have to take time away from work
Perhaps I'm just an old romantic, or dissilusionists, or what-ever, but
I find something just not right with the excavation of sites thought to
hold treasures of the past, or how people were buried, and everything else
"excavation" could possibly mean.
We don't want someone to go digging around in our loved ones grave site
do we, purposefully or random. Indian lore says vehemently that we leave
these areas alone, it's holy land. The ancients, pharoahs, Egyptians,
actually have curses to those who invade burial sites of their dead.
Well, I'm against it, but I sure aint got the power or the will to tell
someone else not to do it...guess that makes it an oxymoron for some, being
against something, yet being "it's your choice to make".
Brian
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Brian Shreve
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:38:06
EID:7a14 223274c0
MSGID: 1:106/113.0 32e134ae
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0cfcbae7
MB> No, Robert. He was ragging on them about their daughter's
MB> weight, which is definitely something they have little (if
MB> any) control over.
If this is fact, then it must be fact that homosexuality is not controllable
either. If it's in the genes, it must be ok, and should
not be a social stigma.
BTW, & FWIW, I believe you're right, and believe I'm right about
most cases of homosexuality is in the genes, and not a choice.
(And nope, I'm not fat or gay or bisexual. I'm just a mental case.
Brian
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:30:20
EID:3df7 2231b3c0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32e043cc
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32de1499
DC> Then, why did he bring the whip? Also, the tables were legal in
DC> the temple. He had no right to disrupt a legal gathering.
Umm... He DIDN'T bring a whip. Read the Bible! I don't know who's telling
you lies, but they have to stop. You must belong to one of those cults
which recruits extremely gullible people.
Legality only goes so far. Don't forget, in Nazi Germany it was "legal"
to round up Jews and slaughter them. Jesus may have done something "out
of order," so to speak, but it beats the heck out of going to the temple
and killing all the vendors there. Besides - a temple is a place of worship,
not the local shopping mall.
DC> Of course not, as He did not have enough support to keep it going.
DC> However, a rebellion was just what a messiah was supposed to do.
A messiah is supposed to save his people - it's just that the Jewish people
OF THE TIME were expecting a military rebellion, since they were under Roman
oppression. One of the main reasons Jesus was crucified was because He
wasn't what they were expecting - God incarnate, come to save the world
from its sins.
DC> Bull****. Your godling was there for the Jews. It was Saul who
DC> decided to branch out to the Gentiles and adopt Gentile ways.
Why do you keep referring to Jesus as a godling? He was (or rather, IS)
God come down to Earth as a human.
I'm not referring to the books of the New Testament which cover the period
after Jesus' life - I'm referring to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Which,
if you'd actually read a Bible, quote Jesus as accepting the Gentiles and
working towards getting them to join in Christianity.
DC> Wrong again. Your godling's teachings were along the lines of
DC> Pharisaic beliefs. You make the error of believing what Saul
DC> wrote, not the reality of the day.
Look it up in the history books - even the most ardent skeptics (except
for people who selectively ignore things, like you) believe that Jesus,
regardless of His holiness, was practicing a movement of tolerance and acceptance,
not bigotry.
DC> Satanism is a god of your religion's pantheon. And, your problem
DC> is that you don't believe the god that told you the truth. Instead,
DC> you follow the deceiving god.
He is not a god... he's the most despised being we know of, at least in
our religion. You seem to be accepting him with open arms though.
I DO believe that God told me the truth. Otherwise, I wouldn't be following
Christianity, would I?
Which "god" do you claim is telling me the truth? It surely isn't yours.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:45:14
EID:3df7 2231b5a0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32e0474a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32de1514
DC> Then, they still don't have that right to make the decision
DC> for the girl.
Finally, you say something right. They don't make the decision, the girl
does. However, too many of these girls lack the independance and courage
to do what their heart tells them to. Pro-life campaigns should work towards
giving that courage, not bombing clinics like with what happened Thursday.
I still think that's a shame... it's bad enough that this fanatic bombed
a building - but it's even worse that he/she deliberately set a bomb to
go off an hour later, when lots of people would be around.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: Wet behind the ears
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:49:58
EID:adf8 2231b620
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32e04866
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32debe32
BS> 1st, I enjoyed your response,
BS> 2nd, I wish you hadn't of stated your age, it awoke the "he's wet behind
BS> years" in me. I hate that part of me. (I be working on correcting
BS> that, slow but sure)
BS> 2nd part 2
BS> At your age, I was in the nationals, and other competitions
BS> in debate. When folks said I was wet behind the ears, it
BS> ticked me off. I won many a trophy and ribbons and plaques
BS> and pat on the backs, I wasn't stupid then, but yeah, I
guess
BS> I was a little wet behind the years, ONLY cuz I hadn't the
BS> experiance (uh, of older and wiser men and women?)...
BS> You aint stupid either, but...a bit wet behind the ears. (grin)
Thanks for considering me intelligent. I guess it's that I try never to
let emotions boil over and make it a shouting contest. Guess I'd do well
in a debate contest... at least I hope so! :-)
I admit I'm wet behind the ears. I only got into this forum a couple of
weeks ago. I don't really mind the inexperience though. It gives me a
sort of "freshness," so I'm not entrenched in my opinions and I can move
(though not much).
JF> attacker. Abortion is different, however - while
JF> I'm not trying to detach from abortion (you ARE
BS>
BS> I think what I said went over your head....re-read what I said.
What was it that you said, anyhow? I would go back and check, but I spend
about 75% (or more!) of my online time answering messages and I can't afford
to go back. Sorry...!
BS> Entitlements = Social Security, Social Security
BS> Retirement, Social Security Disibility, Supplemental
BS> (anyone wanting to ask what i concider to be "welfare", i couldn't
BS> answer them definitively, I'm too involved in it; am too close to it
BS> to perhaps see it in another light)
To me, "welfare" is a simple term - it's the cash you get every 2 weeks/
1 month/whatever if you can't get a job for some reason.
I believe that there's a little too much bureaucracy involved in the process,and
they could simplify it a bit. Still, it's a necessary evil if we want to
claim a society which helps those less fortunate.
JF> Ah, Disgruntled Postal Worker Syndrome. :-) I
BS>
BS> Your choice of answer... #1 or #2 . . .
BS>
BS> 1) yas suh yas suh yas suh
BS> or
BS> 2) didn't go over his head at all, he (you) got it!
I pick door #2! :-)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Isaiah 53:7 / Matthew 27:12
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:33:00
EID:5863 22327c20
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be sitent before his accusers.
"He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did open His mouth."
FULFULLMENT: "And while He was being accused by the chief priests and
elders, He answered nothing."
Since the Lord is directing our steps, why try to understand everything
that happens along the way ?
Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
SENT ABOUT 60 % OF PROPHECY SO FAR.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: one of yours?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:23:01
EID:0d5b 22323ae0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a046d
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 14 Jan 97 12:38pm, DON MARTIN wrote to DAN CEPPA:
DM> Recently, here at the Journal of Rehabilitation Research
DM> and Development, we received this letter from Olympia.
DM> I withhold the name, phone number, and address out of
DM> consideration for the writer, who, if the letter is genuine,
DM> is in serious need of help. I direct this to you by way of
DM> To whom it may concern:
DM> This letter is in regards to the invasion of my privacy.
DM> I would appreciate any direct information leading to the
DM> explanation of this. Periodically, for eight years there
DM> have been famous and non-famous strangers watching me in
DM> the privacy of my own dwelling place. I am greatly
DM> incapacitated and maimed by this intrusion. As I am
DM> typing this letter I am being watched by complete
DM> strangers.
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.
Classic psychiatric motif, including the writing of
letters about it.
Since she's writing for help, I'd play it by suggesting
that many, if not most, famous people have seen psychiatrists, and
that she probably should ask a psychiatrist to spread word to his
colleagues that their patients are misbehaving.
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1471
* Silver Xpress V4.00
--- InterEcho 1.19
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:23:02
EID:25a8 22323ae0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a04e4
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 13 Jan 97 05:44pm, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROBERT CURRY:
RC>> Are you proud of the fact that you have disgusted and
RC>> thoroughly alienated him?
AS>
AS>> That is your assertion, not his
RC>> My assertion has the benefit of being accurate, a characteristic
RC>> alien to many of yours.
AS> Unfortunately for you, no it isn't.
Unfortunately for him, it pretty much was.
AS>> (at least addressed to me).
RC>> What would be the point in addressing someone who doesn't listen?
AS>
AS> Perhaps you should ask him that, since he addresses me a question IN
AS> THIS VERY PACKET.
What?
I addressed him a question?
I caught your , so you read what Al tells you was a
question from me.
Unless he's outright lying to you, he thinks that outright
sarcasm correcting a ludicrous/ignorant statement is a question.
What makes this even more bizarre is that none of those two
statements were framed as even a rhetorical question.
I'm quite astonished, actually, to see his reading
comprehension plummet to the Jim Staal level.
AS>> If he was either, than that is his problem, not mine.
RC>> It *was* his problem; he solved it.
AS>
AS> He did indeed. He took some time out. He is back asking questions.
Do
AS> you have a problem with that?
Asking questions???
I think Al is having a problem himself understanding what I
said to him, unless he's lying to you.
"Disgust" was an adjective I had been thinking of quibbling
with your description of my reaction, as being too strong; but
"disgusted" indeed is now my reaction.
RC>> So you aren't proud to have disgusted and alienated him. Gee, and
RC>> here I thought you were getting commisions for driving people as far
RC>> away from your religion as possible.
AS> Are you seriously suggesting that Curtis is a ripe candidate for
AS> conversion?
Certainly not if Al's the ambassador for the faith.
RC>> Congratulations on the success of your approach.
AS> Congratulations on your falling flat on your face. Too bad for you
that
AS> Curtis asked me a question in this very packet. ROFL!!!
I dunno, Robert, what do you think that he was deliberately
misrepresenting my reply as an attempt to try and troll me into
replying to him so that he could then try and Schoederize me into
how my response was actually a question?
The end result is certainly that I am more disgusted with
and alienated from him more than ever.
"Meta-fundy" indeed is an apt description of him.
... Commercials: mosquitoes of the mind.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:23:03
EID:bf5a 22323ae0
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a055b
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
AS>> would.) Philosophy (of which science was an outgrowth) BEGAN with
AS>> Socrates.
CJ>> Take that, Heraclitus, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Thales,
CJ>> Protagoras, Anaxagoras, Parmenides, Empedocles, and Anaximenes!
CJ>> If it weren't for Al, we would have been fooled into thinking you
CJ>> were philosophers!
AS> Life is full of suprises. Of course, there were great thinkers before
AS> Socrates. But let's just look at the As, to begin with...Anaxagoras
One of life's surprises is how the hell you could think my
paragraph above is a question, as you repeatedly described it as
such to Robert Curry.
[Much borrowed bullshit completely ignoring what the
Pre-Socratics said about ethics, after-life, the flow of change,
even vegetarianism, deleted.]
AS> lost. Granted science is a branch of philosophy that grew and in some
AS> ways passed its parents, and granted that there were great thinkers
AS> before Socrates, and even granting that back then philosophers WERE
AS> scientists, and vice versa. Still, I think the beginnings of true
AS> philosophical thought, in the modern sense, began with Socrates. But
AS> feel free to disagree.
IOW, we're having another Al semantic bullshit game: Greeks
because Socrates can't have practiced philosophy, even though
"philosopher" is attached to their name in every reference book
and history of philosophy, because--because Al is imposing his own
peculiar definition on philosophy, as he did on war.)
Beginning to get the idea of one reason I'm no longer
willing to waste much of my time on you?
... Listop? Have you ever tried stopping a li?
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:24:04
EID:7e63 22323b00
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a05d2
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 14 Jan 97 06:38am, MARILYN BURGE wrote to DON MARTIN:
DM>> summoned. He murmurs the appropriate words whilst inserting
DM>> a syringe up her vagina, squirts (using unsterilized holy
DM>> water, to be sure) and baptizes the pup. Should the woman
DM>> manage to survive both that ordeal and the birth, she has an
DM>> excellent chance of going septic from the squirt.
MB> How disgusting! But I'm not surprised. I guess priests have never
MB> heard of Shemmelweicz (or however he spelled that mess).
Semmelweis. Just like the med students of Vienna were
doing Ob/Gyn immediately after doing their dissections, one could
suppose Martin's priests might be doing their baptizism after
chrisming the dead.
... BBS Mail: TV for the compulsively literate.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:24:05
EID:b9e3 22323b00
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a0649
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 15 Jan 97 12:32am, DAN CEPPA wrote to TIGER EYES:
TE>> gonorrhea-syphilis infected race comes to a land of friendly
DC> Got a clue as to the origin of syphilis?
DC> Check with Glodberg. I'm sure you will find it's origins a
DC> bit different than what you think.
DC> Hopefully, you won't dismiss his answer asbeing from a person of
DC> "non-American Indian" origin.
There's still a merry controvery over the geographical
origins of syphilus. Even if one assumes it were "New World" in
origin, the proportion killed was rather less than that in the
"New World" by smallpox, much less other diseases. [Of course,
smallpox was helped along by Puritan blankets.]
Note that wiping out half or better of the population
beforehand is a great advantage for someone expanding territory
by military means.
CURTIS JOHNSON
... And now, for our next exhibit in the glass zoo. . .
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1471
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T
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:24:06
EID:7122 22323b00
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a06c0
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 14 Jan 97 10:28pm, JONATHAN FINGAS wrote to DAN CEPPA:
DC>> You forget that he strode into the temple and used a whip on
DC>> the people there. You are also forgetting that he told his
DC>> disciples to gather swords. He also killed a fig tree for no
DC>> other reason than it wouldn't give him fruit. And, that doesn't
DC>> include his statements against all that were Gentiles.
JF> Once again, you people convieniently ignore what happens next. From
JF> what I read, Jesus didn't use a whip - He just knocked the tables
JF> over. I doubt He had a sadism fetish. :-) He told His disciples
to
Looks like you didn't bother to read as far as John 2.
JF> gather swords (a whopping -2-, by the way), but guess what? This
was
JF> no rebellion, and Jesus rebuked a disciple for cutting off a
Why did the JC bother to tell the disciples to arm
themselves with inadequate arms?
JF> soldier's ear. He didn't kill a fig tree - in case you hadn't
JF> noticed, THAT WAS A PARABLE! What statements against the Gentiles?
Sorry, not a parable. Narrated as a straight event. Of
course, if something narrated as a straight event is a parable,
then other events narrated as a straight event can then be
parable--including the Resurrection.
JF> All I read in the Bible was of Jesus accepting Gentiles as equals
to
JF> the Jewish people, and wanting to teach them. It was the Pharisees
JF> who disliked and discriminated against the Gentiles.
So, it was equality that the Syrophoenician woman had to
to say she was the quivalen of a dog, before JC would give her the
time of the day?
JF> Either you're reading from some seriously screwed up version of the
JF> Bible, you're making it up, or you're deliberately trying to mislead
JF> people. What religion do you follow? Satanism?
Judging from your version of the gospels--AVE, SATANAS!
... The old and the new are never just to each other.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: goodbye! goodbye! n
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:24:07
EID:8632 22323b00
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a0737
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>On 1 Jan 97 03:52pm, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
CJ>>CJ>>>> SM> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
CJ>>CJ>>>> JH> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> EV> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> JH> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> DC> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>>> ML> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>EM>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
CJ>>CJ>>RV> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>>CJ>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
CJ>> KW> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
CJ>> Eh? _Milk_ him?
KW> Milk glands.
Yeah, but does the "him" have developed milk glands?
CJ>> GALACTOSE! GALACTOSE! RUN HIM!
KW> GORGONZOLA! GORGONZOLA! MOLD HIM!
GORGONS! GORGONS! STONE HIM!
... Nothing to lose but my access privileges.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: christ-like
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:25:08
EID:3d0c 22323b20
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a07ae
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
CJ>>DR>>>>CH> It is not Christ-like to kill.
CJ>> CH> ^^^^^^^^^^^
CH> And then you commented:
CJ>> According to your Gospels, he did much threatening of death
CJ>> and torture to those who did not believe in him.
CH> That's very close, but not exactly it.
CH> Man was already doomed to death before Jesus came on earth.
By what you say was his alter ego? The prosecution could
rest on that alone!
CH> When one is atop a burning building, and a Fireman shouts to this
CH> person that he should jump into the safety net below, this Fireman is
CH> not threatening to burn the one on the roof. He is warning of the
CH> consequences of not accepting his mercy.
To pursue the analogy further: that fireman is selling
tickets to the fireman's ball. If the tickets are not bought, the
safety net won't be there.
And the fireman set the fire in the first place.
CH> Jesus does not say that He will torture anyone that does not believe
in
CH> Him. If you think you have a verse that reads that way, then bring
it
CH> to my attention.
For starters, Matt. 22:1-14's parable of the king giving a
feast for the son's wedding. Those who make excuses for not
attending are killed and their town burned.
John 15:6: "Anyone who does not remain in me is like a
branch that has been thrown away--he withers; these branches are
collected and thrown on the fire, and they are burned."
CH> Love
Yeah, with lovers like that I'll take my chances with
enemeies.
... Keyboard only cryptic stuff below this line.
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|From: Curtis Johnson
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: promisekritters
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:25:09
EID:75dc 22323b20
MSGID: 1:261/1137 320a0825
TID: InterEcho 1.19 6E011031
On 14 Jan 97 07:56pm, FREDRIC RICE wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT:
kw>> And of course they whimper 'the woman tempted me' when they
kw>> do get caught and punished (if they are punished).
FR> Right. Which fuck was it... Masten? Or was it Ken Weins? The clown
FR> that was talking about the six-year-old girl who got raped and then
had
FR> to "explain what she
FR> had done." Religion is ___such___ a good tool for distancing oneself
FR> from the responsibilities of one's actions.
Ken Wiens, who advocated executing raped girls who'd
had an abortion--though the example he'd agreed about was that
they'd reached the age of puberty, i.e., a ripe old twelve years.
On RIME-RELIGION, he's been ranting about how Star Trek,
"Jesus Christ Superstar," and "Silence of the Lambs" were
anti-Christian.
And, believe it or not, he said he'd just applied for a job
with Microsoft.
... BBS Mail: TV for the compulsively literate.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 1472
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:08:00
EID:9703 22324900
MSGID: 1:123/67 32e09386
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
16 Jan 97 17:42, quoting Roger Hunter to John Brawley:
JB>> to itself be a block. Having a "zero block" would give you, if
JB>> you subtracted a negative block from a positive one, _three_
JB>> blocks: the '1' block, the zero block, _and_ the '-1' block.
RH> Let me draw you a picture;
RH> |-+--+--+--| |-+--+--+--|
RH> | -1 | | 1 |
RH> |-+--+--+--| |-+--+--+--|
RH> Now remember, when you subtract, you want to know the difference,
RH> that is "how many blocks do we remove" to get from one to another.
RH> So what is 1 - (-1) above? Why, it's -one-.
Jesus......you're almost as bad as Bait Boy. (shaking head)
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:10:47
EID:5535 22324940
MSGID: 1:123/67 32e093c0
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e04daa
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
18 Jan 97 04:12, quoting David Worrell to All:
DW> Alright, who the fuck chased my cattoy off? Stand up downrange near
DW> the silhouttes and prepare to be taken under fire.
DW> Shit. First McCullough bails, now Gwen follows suit. What's your
DW> excuse gonna be, Brawley? A triple by-pass, or some such nonsense?
I haven't read this echo for a while. What's going on, other than
Brawley trying to redefine mathematics.
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:40:01
EID:f049 22322d00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e06231
-> On 13 Jan 97 22:56:11, ROBERT CURRY got back to J.J. HITT
JJH> No Bah'ia Moderators that are going to de'pos'it anyone.
RC> ROFL!
RC> If Onan were the Moderator, would he withdraw?
He could, but premature withdrawals will bear a penalty,
especially if you are bald.
... +Origin: SYNCOPATION, NETWORK! Keeping the beat for Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:49:18
EID:af78 22322e20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0645e
-> On 15 Jan 97 06:33:21, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAVID WORRELL
DW> Styx doesn't believe in sentient cabbages, either.
RC> Not even Staal?
RC> Hmmm. I suppose "sentient" would be pushing it in that case.
If you mean about the cabbages, there's an "infinitesimal chance".
If you meant Staal, no possible way.
Trust me: Bet on the cabbages.
... "Jesus was Jewish. God, on the other hand, _is_ a Christian." Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: even with zero bait...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:58:48
EID:e284 22326740
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0c908
-> On 16 Jan 97 06:31:15, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
JB>> (Is 'zero' one of the numbers included in 'infinity?')
DC> In an infinite what, John?
JB> Another Fundy trick you learned? You're grasping at straws
JB> and avoiding my arguments. Is "zero" one of the numbers
RC> So when he can't express his meaning, it's all your fault, Dan.
Must be another fundy trick that he learned!
RC> I've already mentioned the set of integers, the classic example
RC> of a denumerably infinite set (which includes zero, naturally).
Which was part of reason I stated my question in the first place.
After all, there isn't a zero in the set of all numbers greater
than 1.
... I'm not a court stenographer but I played one in Holysmoke
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:00:29
EID:1c3c 22326800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0c96d
-> On 13 Jan 97 22:56:15, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
JB> We don't now grant 'standard reality' to "infinitesimals" in math;
DC> Yes you do, as you add progressively smaller slices via calculus
RC> I wasn't aware of infinitesimals being commonly used in calculus
RC> courses -- most instructional texts use the epsilon-delta means of
I don't no about commonly used, as I'm basing that on when I
learned calculus in 1968.
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Indians
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:11:24
EID:d56f 22326960
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0cbfc
-> On 17 Jan 97 05:08:33, Gwenny the Pooh got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> for them. And, contrary to what you think, I am not claiming
DC> that all tribes are run in the same or similar manner. However,
DC> it is also misleading to imply that many are not run that way.
GtP> Look, it was a flame war. I'm not interested in arguing about what
Nope. If it was flame war, I would have casted aspersions as
to the doubful knowledge of the names of her parents. As it
is, I have only questioned the often undeserved reverence of
her documented ancestoral culture.
GtP>> supposed to also say, "It only took them three hundred years to learn
GtP>> to be as greedy, slimy, and selfish as white men." Sorry.
DC> Wrong. It took far less time than that. In fact, Europeans
DC> were not even over here at the time the site at Buffalo Jump, Montana
GtP> Undoubtedly. Look. I didn't start this, I don't really care about
GtP> it. It was a flame war. No reality necessary.
Not a flame war. As always in this Echo, it was a rather heated
exchange that was finally quenched by an inordinate amount of facts
being tossed onto the fire.
Which, brings to mind: Why have you continued to respond in
the "flame war"?
... "I am a Lump, 'cause Unky Staal says I am. Got pictures to prove it!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:33:41
EID:c96e 22326c20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0d135
-> On 17 Jan 97 05:13:39, Gwenny the Pooh got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> qualities of which all are now aware. It was when it got
DC> to calling names on ethnic issues that I became involved.
GtP> Why get involved. How is ethnic issues any different than David
GtP> dissing overweight people. Never mind, it's over.
Too bad, you just brought it up again. Now, find a single
quote where I call Tiger Eyes a "stupid ass squaw" or
anything else to similar effect relating to her and only
herself. Her lineage has never been the question about
her. However, her reverence with rose colored glasses
for her ethnic group is.
DC> not much different than the Europeans in their treatment of those
DC> that were from different groups. And, whether you like it or not,
DC> many of those groups raped the land as nastily as the Europeans.
GtP> So, it's okay for David to dis "fat" people and make with the "he's
GtP> better than my daugther" and it's okay for JJ to argue with a tagline,
That's between them and you, should you choose to get involved. As
I stated, I stayed out of that conversation.
GtP> but if we respond to his "stupid shit Indian" comments, WE are the
GtP> bigots. Whatever. I don't care, Dan. It's over. And my opinion
of
There is a difference in ethnicity and culture. You can't
do a thing about the former, but you can about the later.
GtP> David and the rest jumped on that calling Indians "stupid shits" and
GtP> "ignorant". We flamed back. It's over. Obviously the rules aren't
That did get the ball rolling. However, it was also kicked
back by Tiger Eyes. That got the game under way.
And, again, show where I call any individual a "stupid Indian".
I referred only to various aspects of the Indian cultures that
show that they were not as pure as TE would like them to be.
Those aspects are documented, just as those of the European
attempts at genocide against the American Indians.
... This copy of planet Earth has been unregistered for 4 billion years.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:37:39
EID:c176 22326ca0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e0d223
-> On 16 Jan 97 06:31:13, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> (Good thing I have a program that compressed files by
DS> as much as 100%! Care for a copy?)
RC> rm -r *
I see you are using the registered version.
... "Zero is a blasphemous tool of your cunning!" 'John Brawley'
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: John Musselwhite
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Laurie explosion imminen [1/2]
|Date: 16 Jan 97 08:44:10
EID:047c 22304580
PID: BWMAX 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 32dfa903
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 32dc17b6
>>> Part 1 of 2...
Hi Andrew...
On 12 Jan 97 03:12:46, Andrew Masten penned the following to John Musselwhite
re: Laurie explosion imminen
JM> I suggest you look up the Scottish philosopher David Hume, who
JM> debunked the argument from design hundreds of years ago. In the
...
JM> Would you prefer "refute" then? Regardless of the language, the
JM> intent is the same.
AM>
AM> I would prefer criticized. Refute or debunk suggests some
AM> objective evidence disqualifies the idea.
Too bad... it's been known as "Hume's refutation of the
argument from Design" for hundreds of years.
JM> It's not surprising at all, Andrew. If it were not set up for
JM> our kind of life it would be some other kind.
AM>
AM> Oh? And what evidence is this conclusion founded on? Is there as
AM> yet some unknown physical law which states that universe must
AM> create sentinent life?
There is a well-known law that says the universe must create
life. It has to do with physics and chemistry. What happens to
life afterwards is serendipity. We have a head, two arms and
two legs because our remote ancestor who was fittest to survive
had that trait, not because we were designed that way.
JM> All Mackie's thoughts do for me is to indicate that he made a
JM> statement without the benefit of current knowledge.
AM>
AM> I don't know when Mackie's statement was made, but it couldn't have
AM> been before Hume's. There are modern day cosmologists and physicists
AM> who are pondering the same issue.
Indeed they are, and if you saw the news last night you would
have seen some of the results of that pondering. We have
pretty-well nailed down when and how the universe began and
when and how it will end.
JM> Non sequitur. The only reason to even attempt to determine
JM> design in the universe is if you have a pre-conceived notion
JM> that a designer exists. It has nothing to do with homicide
...
AM> The only reason to exclude the possibility of design, is if you
AM> have a pre-conceived notion that a designer does not exist.
That makes no sense to me at all, Andrew. The "natural state"
is not to consider a designer at all. A designer has to be
"conceived" in order to force it into the model.
AM> I didn't say scientists don't consider evolution scientific. I did
AM> say demarcation arguments have been made which exclude evolution.
AM> That is one reason why all demarcation arguments have failed.
Screw the "demarcation arguments", Andrew. Allele frequency in
a population determines evolution, not some argument.
AM> Can you prove conclusively that we are here as a result of
AM> mechanistic process alone?
JM> It can be shown with a high degree of confidence that this is
JM> so. Gods are not necessary.
AM>
AM> If we can't say how the universe came to be or life got started
AM> and yet you claim there is a high degree of confidence that
AM> mechanistic forces alone suffice.
Ahhh but we CAN say how the universe came to be with a high
level of confidence thanks to space research. Also, we can say
(again with a high level of confidence) how LIFE came to be
thanks to molecular biology. Not only that but we've figured
out how it's going to end.
No "Gods" required.
AM> universe came about from the big bang. What event preceded or caused
AM> the first event we know of?
JM> The official answer is "we don't know" (yet). On the other
JM> hand, I think we DO know, or at least suspect what the answer
JM> is. Again, no gods required.
AM>
AM> What is your suspicion?
My suspicion is that new "universes" are formed on the other
side of black holes. Several new holes have been discovered in
just the past few months. Some holes may not have the power to
do that, but others might.
JM> What you fail to realize is that science has nothing to say
JM> about anything OTHER than "natural law".
AM> Were that the case, I would have no qualms with science or arguing
AM> this issue with you. But you are not satisfied simply saying that
AM> science is silent on the issue of God or a unknown creator. Instead
Oh, but I AM satisfied with that, Andrew. I merely become vocal
when people insist that science DOES have something to say
about a Creator - as you are doing. I become vocal at Laurie
too, but he's just plain irrational just as Hoyle says.
AM> you create a dogma as if there were scientific evidence which
AM> precludes even the possibility of God. BTW the idea that science
AM> must explain via natural law is not scientific, its a philisophical
AM> thought.
NOW we get into demarcation, Andrew. Science MUST explain
everything through natural law because by default it cannot say
anything about the supernatural because it cannot be tested.
JM> Creationism relies entirely on "situational explanations", but
JM> science doesn't exist in a vacuum it is inter-related. That is
JM> the main reason why creationism is looked upon with such disdain.
AM> I think the disdain is caused because "scientific creationism"
AM> still smells too much like theology. In its most flagrant forms its
AM> thinly disguised indeed.
In ALL its forms, Andrew. The guru of Scientific Creationism is
Henry Morris and it all boils down to him. Whatever he says
goes, and what he says is positively goofy!
AM> Nevertheless, I maintain that your rejection of a creator or God,
AM> is not on a scientific basis, but a philisophical one. But you
I don't "reject" a Creator, I find one unevidenced. I don't
reject "God", I have studied enough theology and anthropology
to know that whatever "man's" idea of what God is a creation of
man, not God. You can wax philosophical all you want... the
rest of us have DNA to replicate and genes to sequence and
splice. We want to help the world and improve the human
condition through science. Religious folks don't care all that
much about our planet and work to save "souls" instead. As has
>>> Continued to next message...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Starfire
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 18 Jan 97 04:29:39
EID:2783 223223a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0533b
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32df56c6
PID: GED3 2.5
cc: Tiger Eyes
cc: Bruce Todd
17 Jan 97 10:22, Gwenny the Pooh wrote to All:
GP> Well, folks, I'm back into Homeschooling and I have limited time. In
GP> deference to all the folks who requested that the flamewar end--and
GP> for my kids--I am taking a break for a month
My quarrel is with your mother and that goofy fuck she calls a husband -
not with any of you. I am willing to let this matter lie until her return.
The choice is yours.
Note: This is not to say that I will refrain from taking you to task for
any bone-headed comments you make, on your own, in the future. This is also
not to say that your mother should feel free to post using one of your user
IDs. In the event that I suspect such an event, all bets are off. Your prose
styles are distinctive enough for me to be able to tell the difference.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 18 Jan 97 04:51:43
EID:c077 22322660
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e057e8
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32db0f5c
PID: GED3 2.5
13 Jan 97 15:45, Lee Woofenden wrote to David Worrell:
DW>>> You have eyewitness accounts? Trot 'em out, by all means.
LW>> Oh. Those ones don't count, eh?
DW>> On the contrary - they count just as much as all the
DW>> "eye-witness" accounts that can be found in bookstores about
DW>> UFOs, the Loch Ness monster, government conspiracies, and all
DW>> other sorts of nonsense.
LW> IOW, what I said above is correct. There _are_ eyewitness accounts.
LW> But you reject them,
Just as you likely reject all the "eyewitness" accounts I mentioned above,
yes.
LW> Just because an eyewitness account cannot be shown to be genuine, that
LW> does not mean it is necessarily false.
The burden of proof is lying squarely across your shoulders, Lee.
Get cracking.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 18 Jan 97 04:58:51
EID:777d 22322740
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e058d6
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32dd0b6d
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday January 15 1997 10:42, Lee Woofenden wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> ! Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
LW> How come you have John Brawley's origin line?
That's a long, unpleasant (for John, at least) story. Are you sure you want
all the details?
In short, it's to remind John of the penalties of extreme egotism.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: whose mantra?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:00:09
EID:d326 22322800
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e058f6
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32dd0b75
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday January 15 1997 11:47, Lee Woofenden wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Do you ever wish that people like Fritjoff Capra had all been
DW>> stillborn?
LW> It certainly would be easier for people who wish to keep their
LW> materialistic blinders on if nobody _ever_ called their beliefs into
LW> question.
Thank you for confirming a pet theory of mine.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: My 5 Russian Weekends
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:05:58
EID:9f99 223228a0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e05a50
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1f7781fe
PID: GED3 2.5
Tuesday January 14 1997 03:56, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DW>> The One, True South is the are bounded by the Mason-Dixon line
DW>> on the north, DW>the Mississippi River on the west, the Atlantic
DW>> Ocean on the east, and the Gulf of Mexico on the south. All other
DW>> "southern" areas are False South Scum. :)
RC> You might as well exclude Florida from the region,
Everyone, even Australians, knows that Florida is in no shape, form, or
fashion, Southern.
A situation, I'm sure, that both of us are happy with.
RC> as it has been an
RC> Honorary Northern state for some time now.
Someone once told me that New Jersey almost join the One, True America.
I knew they couldn't be all bad.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:03:26
EID:ba07 22322860
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e059b9
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2055fb1c
PID: GED3 2.5
Wednesday January 15 1997 11:33, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
GTP>> I haven't noticed you ragging on anyone else, INCLUDING Styx,
DW>> Styx doesn't believe in sentient cabbages, either.
RC> Not even Staal?
RC> Hmmm. I suppose "sentient" would be pushing it in that case.
As would "cabbage."
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Native HolySmokers
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:04:03
EID:b18b 22322880
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e059f1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f612
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday January 16 1997 11:31, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DW>> As for those that didn't leap to my defense, I have a long
DW>> memory. :)
RC> A reference, I presume, to the old adage that elephants never forget.
Hey! Leave my weight out of this!
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 05:04:54
EID:7933 22322880
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e05a11
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 8e3b0fb8
PID: GED3 2.5
Thursday January 16 1997 13:45, Jim Staal wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW>>> Lying is a sin, Jim.
JS>> Correct.
DW>> Then why do you continue to gleefully revel in it?
JS> Evidence...?
The above suffices.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:34:08
EID:482f 22326c40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73e651a7
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32df8664
On Jan 17 14:01 97, David Worrell of 1:123/67.7 wrote:
GP>>>> BTW, I have declared the Todds the winner,
DW>>> Does this remind you of a certain Middle Eastern head of
DW>>> state?
JH>> I'm waiting for them to quote Veliskovsky.
DW> I'm hoping for something new and different - quotes from
DW> Lamarck, maybe.
I don't really want to say this as it might give them ideas....
But I won't be the least bit suprised to see the first posting
of Our Daily Rune.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:36:16
EID:6f34 22326c80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73e66161
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67056
On Jan 17 16:23 97, ROBERT CURRY of 1:3603/210 wrote:
GTP>> As I said in another post, I could do what the Mormon
GTP>> did. Starve her. Abuse her emotionally. Reject her based
GTP>> on a superficial characteristic that does not define who
GTP>> she is.
RC> I don't think you could. You have better sense than that.
Have you seen the picture on their web page?
To claim the kid doesn't have a very profound problem borders on
abuse by neglect.
Really no different that Xian Scientists or JW's who deny thier
kids adiquate and desparately needed health care.
I'm dropping out of the banter on this one because the fun has
gone out it. The situation is genuinely tragic.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:01:29
EID:b0ca 22323820
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a65ff5e9
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32daf58c
On (13 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Dan Ceppa...
AS> No; but it doesn't disprove it either. And it rather puts a different
DC> If you can't disprove it, why not join?
AS> Because I think it extremely unlikely; if alien civlizations
AS> do exist (which I do believe) they would not spend the
AS> enormous amounts of energy to travel from star to star, only
AS> to mutilate cattle and give another species' females rather
AS> intimate exams. Crossing light years to examine the genitalia
AS> of cats might be a useful analogy. It makes no sense. When
AS> the aliens come, I doubt if we'll have much doubt of it.
AS> They'll be a little hard to ignore.
They DON'T go from star to star. If they did, they would burn up
before they reached the first one. OUR SUN is a star; we live on a
lowly planet.
... "Scattered Showers, my ASS!"....Noah
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 18 Jan 97 07:18:07
EID:4ca0 22323a40
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f4424046
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32db03f8
On (13 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Martin Goldberg...
AS> You can't, and that's an excellent point. Except perhaps to
AS> think if you take a large enough group, both as a control
AS> group and the group being prayed for, that such things will
MG> A large group is getting into the realm of your discussion
MG> with Curry about the sample space. If you make your number of
MG> individuals large enough, pretty soon you have the whole
MG> population. But, as you point out, the variables here are
MG> impossible to control for.
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether
AS> prayer actually works or not?
You aren't really looking for a "better suggestion," as that
language suggests that the one you've already come up with is good
but needs some improvement. The one you've come up with, in actual
fact, sucks.
What you need is a GOOD suggestion to begin with, and there is
none.
... Think hard now! Which one is Shinola?`
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:43:19
EID:1818 22325560
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 de6eb91a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e04aa5
On (17 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> Another of your petty little rationalizations. It says what
MB> it says, and all the rationalizaitons in the world won't
MB> change or modify the words.
AS> And Peter very much wanted to walk on the water. Did he do so
AS> without fail? Paul wanted the thorn removed from the flesh?
AS> Did that happen?
MB> When he prayed for relief from the inevitable, he followed it
MB> by saying Thy will be done, so he did get exactly what he
MB> asked for.
AS> Maybe it's something those of us should pray should ALWAYS
AS> include in our prayers.
AS> I do.
According to the Lord's Prayer, you're absolutely right. And,
since that is what it says, why pray at all? As long as the
words "thy will be done" are included, basically, there is no
reason to believe that prayer will ever make things turn out
any differently than they would have absent the prayer.
AS> to Paul when he prayed for the "thorn in the flesh" to be
AS> lifted from him.
In other words, Jesus lied when he said what he said, or,
alternatively, the reporter misquoted him. So, the NT is no more
reliable than the OT when it comes to reporting events exactly as
they happened. There goes all your faith that the resurrection
really, really happened, in the literal sense.
Oh, I know. You'll cling to that faith, despite my clear
demonstration that the NT also contains allegory and myth, just
like you already admit the OT does. Carry on, oh ye deluded one.
... Stupidometer: ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ±± (98)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 10:57:26
EID:fe9b 22325720
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 0cbe5f9c
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1ec58a14
On (13 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to MARILYN BURGE...
RC> I'm not sure what kind of trophy goes to a parent who
RC> deliberately exposes a child to flames, and then SHOWS the
RC> resulting flames to the child, encouraging her to retaliate
RC> with beginner flames which serve no purpose but to escalate
RC> the idiocy at the child's expense.
My understanding is that the child read the messages over Mom
and Dad's shoulders. It is pretty hard to know what message
is coming up next, so I don't really see any way to avoid the
kid reading the insulting messages. But I do agree that the
parents never should have left the kid open to insult and
injury to begin with. . . .
RC> What would you suggest?
That the parents adopt a principle of only relating personal
stuff from their own lives, and keeping their kids out of it
precisely because they themselves have admitted that they
realize that teenagers' feelings are more vulnerable to hurt
than adults'.
... Necrophilohippoflagellation: The love of beating a dead horse.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:41:23
EID:d20f 22326d20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7c235e5b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dc1536
On (14 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Marty Leipzig...
-> On 06 Jan 97 14:30:19, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> SM>>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
ML> JH>>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
ML> DC>>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
DC> [..] <-- don't worry! Archived under G-G.PUN
ML> GEOPHYSICISTS! GEOPHYSICISTS! BOUGER HIM!
CJ> GYNECOLOGISTS! GYNECOLOGISTS! EXAM--er, never mind.
ML> GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
DC> GOYHIM! GOYHIM! CIRCUMCISE HIM!
ML> GYPSUM! GYPSUM! PLASTER HIM!
DC> GRASS! GRASS! SMOKE'M!
ML> GAROU! GAROU! MOON HIM!
DC> GEESE! GEESE! GOOSE HIM!
GONADS! GONADS! BUGGER HIM!
DC> BTW, I think your's would be better if you said, "PLANT HIM!"
ML> Ahhh, who astcha?
DC> You didn't, at least not quick enough!
ML> Then I won't do it again...
DC> GOOD! GOOD! GIVE HIM THAT!
DC> ... "Give me spam or give me death." - Jim Bodle
DC> --- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
DC> * Origin: The Northest Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
... Necrophilohippoflagellation: The love of beating a dead horse.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:19:04
EID:a38a 22327260
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 ae5c59b3
On (13 Jan 97) Lynda Bustilloz babbled to Al Schroeder...
AS> Instead, Christian monks are the whole reason many classical
AS> texts, including such texts as Ovid's Arts of Love...hardly a
AS> holy work--survived.
LB> Those are the same folks who forbade even the Bible from
LB> being read or understood by the general populous. They held
LB> literacy close to themselves as a priviledge of the church,
LB> and just LOOK how well they stewarded that knowledge to the
LB> rest of the people. Religious superstition was sold to the
LB> masses in the Masses. The better to control you with, my
LB> dear.
LB> The Dark Ages would have neither been so dark, nor lasted for
LB> so many ages without the loving touch of christianity to aid
LB> and abet it.
William Manchester in _In a World Lit Only by Darkness_ says that
the only thing that broke the church's hold on the people was
moveable type. He claims that without the telephone, teevee,
radio, etc., Pope Leo got word of the seriousness of Luther's
heresy too late to do anything about it, because Luther had the
printing press and could disseminate both his point of view and
the scriptures among the people who then passed Luther's tracts on
and on and on. By the time Leo figured out that his schism was a
real threat, it was already too late.
Maybe the Bible was right on this one point: Ye shall know the
Truth and the Truth shall make you free.
... Yes, my god exists! I carved him from wood myself.
-+- PPoint 2.00
+ Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
... Stupidity got us into this mess; why can't it get us out?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: SUPERSTITION
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:20:58
EID:4602 22327280
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 271adf89
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32db1fbb
On (13 Jan 97) Lynda Bustilloz babbled to Judith Bandsma...
LB> A guy dying and coming back to life three days later....real
LB> enough to eat fish, but walking through walls, going
LB> UNRECOGNISED for the better part of a long journey and only
LB> being recognised as he leaves (hey! Who WAS that masked
LB> man?!?), and then as a final encore being raised up to the
LB> clouds, waving bye bye and saying "I'll be baaaaaack"....that
LB> sounds FAR more "real life".....
LB> Your problem was promoting a soap opera. That's BARB'S gig.
LB> Al prefers superhero comics.
I'm really bothered by these clowns that need all the hokus-pokus
in order to maintain their "spirituality." What's wrong with just
seeing that life is better if it's lived by Jesus' message of
treating others decently? What's wrong with seeing Jesus as a
prophet rather than as god incarnate? What's wrong with just
admitting that magic isn't in the cards, and there's a reality
out there that we are better off if we learn to cope with it?
Religion that hangs or falls on a bunch of abacadrabra is a poor
way to live one's life, IMNSHO.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:38:30
EID:d3a4 223274c0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 cbd8aff2
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dc53a0
On (14 Jan 97) Jan deBoer babbled to Dan Ceppa...
Jd> On 13 Jan 97 13:19:18 Dan Ceppa wrote to Tiger Eyes...
-> On 11 Jan 97 07:46:24, Tiger Eyes got back to Ronald Vass
TE> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes
DC> Just another trick the Indians used to help get their bounty
DC> from the white men. The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC> not white men, but other Indians.
DC> Deal with it. It's your history and ancestory.
Jd> Wasn't it the whites who taught scalping to the Indians?
French trappers.
... 665 - Neighbor of the Beast
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: green Party?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:25:46
EID:2d46 2232ab20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e13fda
-> On 16 Jan 97 17:07:12, Ed Mills got back to Jan deBoer
JB> Groetjes.
Jd> Ik verstein niet 'Groetjes'.
EM> This Dutch talk is really turning me on. I'm a recovering
EM> wooden-shoe fetishist, y'know. :)
Well, that explains the splinters in your lips.
... "We should let sleeping Martins lie, but, can I prod a bit?" Hector
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:46:59
EID:e9ee 2232adc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e144d3
-> On 17 Jan 97 17:30:26, Steve Quarrella got back to Dan Ceppa
SQ> No wonder he didn't answer it: It helps if I muse aloud as to how
SQ> monotheism is superior to POLYTHEISM. :-/
How could it be? What's the fun of being a god if you can't
get beaten in a game of basketball by the other gods and
turn them into turnips in a fit of temper tantrum?
DC> At least the Greek pantheon had a recognized number of deities.
SQ> Fundies will most likely holler "When's the last time you saw a god
SQ> spring out of the forehead of another god? That's just stupid." :)
So's a gods' basketball team that doesn't have Michael Jordon
on it.
... "You are such a humorous race--and don't suspect it."-"Satan"(Twain)
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 18 Jan 97 20:09:10
EID:5535 2232a120
MSGID: 1:123/67 32e12dfa
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e0533b
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
18 Jan 97 04:29, quoting David Worrell to Starfire:
DW> My quarrel is with your mother and that goofy fuck she calls a husband
DW> - not with any of you.
Details, please.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Brett Johnson: Pencil it in. Your gods wont notice, honest.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 14:46:01
EID:1b76 223575c0
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea469
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 e0fc2785
PID: FM 2.02
Dan Ceppa
Brett Johnson
BJ> "Elohim", among other things, was a Hebraism to refer to a judge.
Pencil in what you want, Brett. Maybe your gods won't notice.
DC> Wrong. "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloh". "Eloh" is the Hebraic
DC> for god. "Elohim" therefore is _gods_.
mb> Where in the world do these ignoramuses come from?
Jupiter.
mb> They understand without breaking a sweat that cherubim
mb> is the plural of cherub, and that seraphim in the plural
mb> of seraph, but they get stuck on Elohim!
But it's very convenient to contrive mistakes for "Elohim" when they're
supposed to believe they have only the one god.
mb> Wadda bunch of buffoons!
I wonder how an honest Christian manage to resolve the conflict.
mb> I cashed your check. thanks.
I punched his ticket!
~*~ No point having all those orphaned children and widows around after
their hubbys have died in the war. - Jim Germiquet
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Bluster your way to an escape, Lee. Go ahead. Do it. You want
to.
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:14:15
EID:cfe5 223579c7
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea46b
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73f6053a
PID: FM 2.02
LW> I will pay _you_ (or anyone else) $100 if you can either 1)
LW> explain how the experiment is useful in corroborating or
LW> falsifying the theory I presented earlier, or 2) explain how
LW> the experiment would be capable of demonstrating to others
LW> that my "deity construct" exists or does not exist. (These
LW> are two distinct issues.)
A simple "No, I can't defend my ignorant occultism and certainly won't take
the bet because I know I'm full of shit" wasn't enough for you, I guess.
Okay, I raise the challenge to $500.00 and we'll change the location from
the MGM Grand Hotel to a very large building in front of a very hard sidewalk
at a location convenient to you. When we both agree, you jump.
I either hose myself off or hand you $500.00 bucks, what do you say?
I would like to get it on videotape, however.
~*~ Real facts never contradict faith. - Ron Stringfellow (pentecostal)
Which is why the faithful never know the facts. - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Bill's lies about Sagan will only get worse
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:18:32
EID:de85 22357a50
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea46c
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73c0bdfb
PID: FM 2.02
BW> I've never said that Carl Sagan was creationists. What I did say
BW> is that I agree with Carl Sagan completely. And when Carl
BW> Sagan admits that the fossil record could be consistent with
mg> You are a liar. Carl does not believe in any designer.
mg> Read the gawddamned article again illy.
I suspect that he and his fellow Creationist friends will make more and
more outrageous claims by stuffing words into Sagan's mouth now that he's
dead. I'm betting that one of them will come up with a Sagan "death bed
confession" within a few years.
~*~ And when you go to hell, i'll get the last laugh!
- Christopher Calabrese
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Al's delusions
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:33:07
EID:86f1 22357c23
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea46d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73cfb18c
PID: FM 2.02
DC>> "Here: Eat this jelly doughnut or I'll kill you."
AS> "Okay, here are two doors. One leads to a smorgasboard of
AS> delicious food, and beautiful music, and fine books, and
AS> pretty ladies. The other leads you to a sheer dropoff and
AS> you will die, horribly, falling twenty stories.
AS> "Your choice."
mg> Excellent analogy. Pascal debunking at
mg> its finest. Pick the wrong (god) door and you die.
It's even more sinister than that. His cult doesn't give the educated
the choice of not playing his deity constructs' games. With his evil if
you don't bother playing his deity constructs shove you out door number
two.
Pretty sick ideologies, really.
~*~ We're gonna turn the HOLYSMOKE echo into a GIANT MUD PIT!
- Amy Anderson-Coffin
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:42:20
EID:e88a 22357d4a
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea46e
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org ca663054
PID: FM 2.02
ns> Any group/cult/belief/non-belief system is of interest, but I would
ns> prefer to hear from people who can speak from personal experience.
How about hearing from recorded history? It has much to say about the validity
of religion. Are you interested in that?
~*~ If Jesus were born today, He'd surely refuse to become a Christian
- Ken
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:45:24
EID:bc2b 22357dac
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea46f
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32e043cc
PID: FM 2.02
DC> Then, why did he bring the whip? Also, the tables were legal in
DC> the temple. He had no right to disrupt a legal gathering.
jf> Umm... He DIDN'T bring a whip. Read the Bible!
Good grief, Jonathan, take your medication or something. And then actually
sit down and read the classical Christanic mythologies for once -- without
your masters "helpful interpretations."
jf> I don't know who's telling you lies, but they have to stop.
jf> You must belong to one of those cults which recruits extremely
jf> gullible people.
He's educated, silly, he doesn't believe in the occult.
In any event the Jesus mythos is depicted as a demonic crazy man in the
classical Christanic mythologies. It's amazing death cultists worship the
myths.
~*~ I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem to
particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart from God
even further than do pagan men. - (Jim Staal, Promise Keeper)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: one of yours?
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:46:50
EID:2841 22357dd9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea471
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a046d
PID: FM 2.02
> DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
> DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
> DM> forward the information to her.
> Since she's writing for help, I'd play it by suggesting
> that many, if not most, famous people have seen psychiatrists, and
> that she probably should ask a psychiatrist to spread word to his
> colleagues that their patients are misbehaving.
The whole thing is a spoof about the character's television, Curtis.
~*~ "You were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful.
More wonderful than that of women." --2 Samuel 1:26
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:55:37
EID:bc2b 22357ef2
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea472
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a06c0
PID: FM 2.02
JF> Once again, you people convieniently ignore what happens next. From
JF> what I read, Jesus didn't use a whip - He just knocked the tables
JF> over. I doubt He had a sadism fetish. :-) He told His disciples to
JF> gather swords (a whopping -2-, by the way), but guess what? This was
JF> no rebellion, and Jesus rebuked a disciple for cutting off a
JF> soldier's ear. He didn't kill a fig tree - in case you hadn't
JF> noticed, THAT WAS A PARABLE! What statements against the Gentiles?
There's no self-deception you fundies won't try when rewriting your paper
idols to fit your master's preconceptions, huh?
Try reading the classical Christanic mythologies once ___without___ the
"helpful interpretations" your death cult masters feed you. The so-called
"Jesus" mythos is specifically made into a demonic crazed man who curses
a fruit tree because it's out of season.
You worship lunacy, Jonathan. You know you do.
~*~ Spare me the chirping birds and pretty flowers crap. - QUENTIN FAI
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 21 Jan 97 15:56:57
EID:e6de 22357f1c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea473
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a06c0
PID: FM 2.02
JF> soldier's ear. He didn't kill a fig tree - in case you hadn't
JF> noticed, THAT WAS A PARABLE! What statements against the Gentiles?
His paper idol must be covered over in penciled-in "corrections."
cj> Sorry, not a parable. Narrated as a straight event. Of
cj> course, if something narrated as a straight event is a parable,
cj> then other events narrated as a straight event can then be
cj> parable--including the Resurrection.
"But but but... But that's DIFFERENT!"
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: promisekritters
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:02:34
EID:e405 22358051
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea474
REPLY: 1:261/1137 320a0825
PID: FM 2.02
kw>> And of course they whimper 'the woman tempted me' when they
kw>> do get caught and punished (if they are punished).
FR> Right. Which fuck was it... Masten? Or was it Ken Weins? The clown
FR> that was talking about the six-year-old girl who got raped and then
had
FR> to "explain what she had done." Religion is ___such___ a good tool
fr> for distancing oneself from the responsibilities of one's actions.
cj> Ken Wiens, who advocated executing raped girls who'd
cj> had an abortion--though the example he'd agreed about was that
cj> they'd reached the age of puberty, i.e., a ripe old twelve years.
It's time to start advocating executions for fundies. Except that hatred
of women and gurls isn't illegal, just disgustingly sick.
cj> On RIME-RELIGION, he's been ranting about how Star Trek,
cj> "Jesus Christ Superstar," and "Silence of the Lambs" were
cj> anti-Christian.
To these types the Three Stooges were "anti-Christian."
cj> And, believe it or not, he said he'd
cj> just applied for a job with Microsoft.
I would hope that they have even marginal screening processes which can
filter him out.
~*~ Maybe it otta be renamed to Hades command set. - David Strickland
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:03:56
EID:e41f 2235807c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea475
REPLY: 1:123/67 32e09386
PID: FM 2.02
RH> So what is 1 - (-1) above? Why, it's -one-.
ss> Jesus......you're almost as bad as Bait Boy. (shaking head)
You've missed a lot of jesusing jesus in the last couple of weeks.
ss> + Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
~*~ Why buy toilet paper when bibles are given away free? - Robert Curry
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: HomeSchooled idiots running for President
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:05:16
EID:99b2 223580a8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea476
REPLY: 1:123/67 32e093c0
PID: FM 2.02
DW> Alright, who the fuck chased my cattoy off? Stand up downrange
DW> near the silhouttes and prepare to be taken under fire.
DW> Shit. First McCullough bails, now Gwen follows suit. What's your
DW> excuse gonna be, Brawley? A triple by-pass, or some such nonsense?
ss> I haven't read this echo for a while. What's going on,
ss> other than Brawley trying to redefine mathematics.
Marilyn ran off to become a nun.
Quintin and David both got laid.
Bill stopped telling lies.
Staal got an education.
Jesus finally came.
~*~ JESUS CHRIST WILL COME, WETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT. - Leonard Bernier
He sure is taking a long time. I'm quite sore. - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: What a great pun!
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:10:09
EID:64e4 22358144
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea477
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e057e8
PID: FM 2.02
LW> Just because an eyewitness account cannot be shown to be
lw> genuine, that does not mean it is necessarily false.
See, David? Invisible pink hippos really really _do_ exist.
dw> The burden of proof is lying squarely
dw> across your shoulders, Lee. Get cracking.
Get cracking... good pun.
~*~ jp> I have become quite tired of people blaming Christianity for the
jp> many atrocities that have been committed in the NAME of Christianity.
dr> I have become quite tired of people blaiming Nazi fascism for the
dr> many atrocities that have been committed in the NAME of Nazism.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good"
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:10:56
EID:f615 2235815c
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea478
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e058d6
PID: FM 2.02
DW>> ! Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
LW> How come you have John Brawley's origin line?
"I'm Sparticus!"
~*~ Newtonian gravity was rejected in place of Einstein's theory.
- Jesse Hornbacher
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Heathens
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:15:44
EID:b8db 223581f6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a8ea479
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e144d3
PID: FM 2.02
SQ> No wonder he didn't answer it: It helps if I muse aloud
sq> as to how monotheism is superior to POLYTHEISM. :-/
dc> How could it be? What's the fun of being a god if you can't
dc> get beaten in a game of basketball by the other gods and
dc> turn them into turnips in a fit of temper tantrum?
Or wish them into the corn field.
~*~ I have a recurring nightmare about being a patient in my own ER.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: NOODLES
|Date: 21 Jan 97 16:29:54
EID:25e7 223583bb
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0a90709a
PID: FM 2.02
I'm sitting here with a plat full of noodles. I would swear they're growing.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 17 Jan 97 16:32:00
EID:9110 22318400
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> There's a big article in today's Camera on the witches of Boulder.
RH> Sounds like we're infested with them....
GTP> There'll be two more on Saturday. Wild and I will be up there
GTP> visiting a catholic religious supply store to get cheap candles.
You mean you -buy- them? I thought you made them out of the rendered
fat of sacrificed Christian babies?
Well, that's what I -heard- anyway.
... It IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: MORE TODDLINGS, NEWS
|Date: 17 Jan 97 16:33:00
EID:97d8 22318420
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to Roger Hunter <=-
GTP> They are looking for intelligent conversation, who else would they
GTP> talk to??? David Worrell???? ROFL
Ha! That's why I talk to myself so much.
... Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 104/251 627 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 09 Jan 97 10:22:04
EID:656b 222952c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32d6568b
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Katherine Wintersnight cast Look Who is Insulted?
at Sue Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
SA>So who wants winter done right? I could do without snow .. :)
KW> I'm happy--we finally got some. I am a bit exasperated with this
KW> city, though--two and an half inches over eighteen hours and they set
KW> off the emergency warning system, start some of the disaster protocols
KW> with the EMS, and close down the highways . And some
KW> jackass plowed into Bear (no major damage to the car, and none to my
KW> Bear) because he couldn't figure out how to stop.
Yeesh. Well, we're getting ours - payback for all the nice,
unnaturally warm weather we've been having. It's now blizzarding
outside, and it's expected that we'll have almost 2 feet of snow by
the time it's over. :(
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Yo mama's so stupid, she went to a Whalers game to see Shamu.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 244/1162
SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: 2 Paradox [1/2]
|Date: 09 Jan 97 10:26:05
EID:41bf 22295340
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32d6568c
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast 2 Paradox [1/2] at Sue Armstrong ..
and all hell broke loose.
DL> with the hightest sphear which caused the backlash. In the above
DL> senario, if Samual were pulled into a paradox realm,the spirit of
DL> Samual would be pulled away and locked in an Umbral or Dream realm,
DL> with his body lying in a catatonic heap.
SA> Yes, I can imagine worse.
DL> Why am I not suprised?? ;>
:)
SA> who-knows-who else in which his sword got broken and f) The Paradox
SA> backlash was so mighty, having stored up so much of it over the
SA> years that his body was destroyed and his soul turned into an
SA> ashtray.
DL> Yep. The Mage sourcebook refers to legends of paradox storms
DL> sweeping across reality. Clensing the slate. Sort of like the story
DL> of Soddom and Gamora(sp). Fire raining from the sky, people turning
DL> into pillars of salt....... Hey there's a plot device in there. :>
Hehehe. Yeah, I'll say. Paradox storm hits world-wide - what would
the changes be? :)
The Werewolf sourcebook, of course, only mentions Umbral storms;
vast storms that sweep through the spirit world. Those can be
pretty nasty too, but I don't think they really alter much (who
would notice?)
SA> And the peasants rejoiced.
DL> (muted) yeeeeah.
Hehehehe. Sorry. Got possessed by Tim the Tool Spirit for a
moment there.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... History is the refutation of the "moral world order." - Nietzsche
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Paradox [1/2] [1/2]
|Date: 09 Jan 97 10:27:06
EID:2024 22295360
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32d6568d
TID: GE 1.11+
>>> Part 1 of 2...
Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast Paradox [1/2] at Sue Armstrong ..
and all hell broke loose.
DL> Paradox comes about when a mage has performed magick that goes against
DL> consentual reality. Reality is defined by what the sleepers (the
DL> general population) as believable. The Technocracy has for the past
DL> thousand or so years molded the population of the world to more readily
DL> accept their paradigm. That science is the only thing that is able to
DL> alter reality. Anything else would go against reality, and therefore
DL> not be possiable. This is why mages always try to work their magick
as
DL> *coincidental* magick. That is, magic which would be believable by the
DL> general population.
SA> Funny. This is basically the reason I've been using to explain the
SA> Delerium.
DL> Oh?
Yeah, but mind you, I didn't get it from anywhere. I just thought
through the mechanics of Delerium, and re-rationalised it.
SA> The Delerium, of course, is what humans experience when they see a
SA> Garou in Crinos - their reactions are basically based on their
SA> Willpower (or, as I use it for incidental encounters, a roll from
SA> 1-10.) Reactions range from Catatonic Fear (the human curls up into
SA> a ball, whimpers uncontrollably, and can't remember a thing
SA> afterwards) to No Reaction/Blase - the person is likely Kinfolk and
SA> has no reaction at all to seeing the "monster".
DL> To the person coming up with something that would be more easily
DL> explainable. "No. That wasn't a Werewolf. It was some guy in a fur
DL> coat. Yea. YEA. That's the ticket."
Those were 1 and 10. The wording under Curiosity (8) includes:
"This sort is often the most likely to rationalise things later
on."
Those with a 10 - Blase - are probably the most likely to know
exactly what they saw. Of course, Kinfolk (those related by blood
to Garou, but who are not Garou themselves) are automatically
immune.
SA> whatever their Willpower or Delerium roll is, so doing it that way,
SA> folks would actually be starting at 6 - Conciliatory (person begs
SA> for his life.))
SA> However, I don't like the race memory idea;
DL> No. No I don't think I could go along with it either.
It's too .. pat. It works OK for a quickie explanation, but it's
not really realistic. Granted, an automatic assumption of 6:
Controlled Fear might be good for, as the book suggests, a
hard-trained cop, but that can still be equated to life experience
and world-view. Not all cops can be expected to have a willpower of
6, after all. (And look at "Aliens" - that supposedly hardened space
marine who blubbers all through the damn movie, at least until he
gets killed. Cripes, he was annoying.)
SA> that's best left to the
SA> Mokole (the werealligators, "Gaia's Memory".)
DL> Please. It's hard enough trying to incorperate Werewolves into the
DL> three games we have running. Let's not bring in Werealligators,
DL> Werecats, Weretuna ,etc...
Hehehe. Well, they _are_ W:tA oriented; there's only a very few of
them; just the ones I listed before, and the Kitsune (werefoxes,
found in Caerns: Places of Power.) And WW is starting to release
actual Bete (other wereanimal) sourcebooks - the werecats (Bastet)
have their book coming out next month, followed by Nuwisha
(werecoyotes) a couple of months later. Woo hoo!
Which is good timing for me, since the pack's totem, Hyperion,
demands that his "children" assist the other wereanimals when
they're in trouble .. and the 1st Edition Player's Guide just has
the bare-bones description, and a very few Gifts for them to use.
SA> some sort of crystal-weenie, a fundy who believes in daemons, or
SA> someone who takes the Weekly World News as true and honest
SA> reporting, they're going to be quite able to rank pretty high on the
SA> Delerium Chart. A science PhD, of course, is going to rank pretty
SA> darn low, and will most likely be reduced to a quivering mass of
SA> jelly even if the Crinos just walks by calmly on his way to Trader
SA> Vic's for a nice bowl of beef chow mein with his other peacenik CoG
SA> or Stargazer buddies.
DL> Yea. That ties in pretty good with the idea of concentual reality.
DL> I'll send this by the werewolf ST and see what she thinks of it.
Heh. Well, it'll be interesting to hear what she does think about
it .. a lot of people _don't_ like this idea, but I find it simply
more workable.
SA> As an example, I had one character (Ghost, a metis Get of Fenris
SA> Ahroun) track down a serial rapist in the Toronto subway system.
DL> "You want which needle in that haystack?"
Basically. But he did go at night (when the subways are a bit
quieter, and when the attacks happen), and he also has a Get of
Fenris-specific Gift called Sense Guilt; three successes on a test
tells the Get exactly what the person's crime _is_. Ghost went
through all the stations, looking for people who looked shifty.
Once he spotted someone (succcessful perception roll), he used the
Gift twice; the first time he rolled 1 success, which told him only that
the person was guilty of _something_. Then he tried again, and
rolled up 4 successes, and well ...
SA> I
SA> didn't make any stats for the victim; all I did was pre-roll a D10
SA> to see what her reaction would be should she see Ghost go to Crinos
SA> in front of her (so I could say whether or not she curled into a
SA> ball, ran away, attacked Ghost himself, or whatnot). She got an 8 -
SA> Curiosity. So, while Ghost the Not-So-Friendly-Get was smacking
SA> around the rapist (and the Bane that was hanging around him), she
SA> simply ensconced herself behind a post in the deserted station and
SA> watched EVERYTHING. And told CITY-TV News what she'd seen.
DL> Which would result in one of four things:
DL> 1) The CITY-TV newsdesk will just shake their heads in sympathy.
DL> "Yes. The experience can be very taumatic. She thinks she actually
DL> saw a half-wolf, half-man creature come to her rescue. Poor dear."
Which is basically what their reaction was. They reported that she
was sent over for psychiatric counselling (even attempted rape can
be quite traumatic).
DL> 2) The Technocracy would get wind of it. Something abhorant is
DL> wandering around Toronto's subway? Werewolves? Were did *they* come
DL> from? This warrents further investigation. Which would arouse the
DL> suspitions of the Traditions.
Mm. If they were around; I still haven't found a use for them yet,
and the storyline is getting messy enough as it is.
DL> 3) It would be a given that the Vamp population (either the Prince
DL> or some of the Primogen) would have their own hooks into the media
DL> and city police. Either Vampires or Ghouls would here of this. What
DL> do you suppose would be the reaction of the Vamp population when they
DL> hear that one, possably more, Werewolves are running around in their
DL> 'hood?? :>
DL> 4) My choice.... all of the above.
The vampires already KNOW. My Toronto is Garou controlled, but the
Children of Gaia run the sept. So they have a sort of uneasy mutual
>>> Continued to next message...
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Paradox [1/2] [2/2]
|Date: 09 Jan 97 10:27:07
EID:6424 22295360
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32d6568e
TID: GE 1.11+
>>> Part 2 of 2...
agreement not to call attention to each other, and to leave each
other alone as much as possible. As for the Prince, well, there is
none. They keep killing off their Princes because the stupid gits
just can't agree. However, a Gangrel is posed to become the next
Prince, though I'm not sure exactly when he'll take his place as
such - it'll likely be quite soon, and he's got a PC Uktena Ahroun
to back him up. (This Gangrel - 6th generation - actually saved the
Uktena from dancing the Spiral; his parents were in fact BSDs .. the
vampire dropped him off at an Uktena caern, and now the Uktena feels
a debt of gratitude. Worse, he's thinking of asking the vamp to
ghoul him.) Anyway, there's been much rending of the veil by the PCs
of late; the vampires aren't going to be very happy about it. The
sept leader already gave the Uktena royal shit for allowing the BSD
to get away to be photographed .. and with the combination of that,
and the woman who claimed to be rescued by a werewolf, the effects
will start to build up.
If such rending happens again any time soon, a full-blown werewolf
mania will be poised to begin. Of course, I might not make it a
scene of terror - people might just think it "cool", which would be
even WORSE for the Garou. :) Imagine them being surrounded by a
"werewolf fad" - which itself would weaken the veil even MORE!
Ahahahahahahahaha! The whole city at a plus 5 on a Delerium roll!
Ahahahahahaha!
Of course, the Glass Walker has been acting very stupid. After the
fight with the aforementioned Black Spiral Dancer, he went and
CALLED AN AMBULANCE! What Garou need with an ambulance, I have NO
idea. Yes, he was down to Incapacitated, with aggravated wounds,
but hell - he'll have healed it in a few days, and he looked like he
was hit by a train and then mauled by a bear. The paramedics were
amazed he was even still ALIVE. They don't expect him to even WALK
again! And he's going to be up and around in less than a week?
Ooooops. Something funny there. I plan to take advantage of this.
Press corps, people calling it a miracle, and folks from the Church
(oopsie!) coming to investigate the "miracle", etc. Lots of
publicity for our Walker-boy. Worse, the Uktena WARNED him to hide
his family away, to protect them. "No, no," he said, "Don't worry.
I'll handle it." He didn't, and now his human wife is dead and his
kinfolk daughter is in captivity. Idiot.
At least the Strider - who was down below incapacitated in a
seperate and non-related incident, but managed to get back up with a
successful Rage roll - had the sense to simply make his own way back
to privacy. It took him most of the night to crawl back to High
Park, and he now has a Battle Scar that gave him Glory renown (but
has him down to half normal movement rate), but at least he didn't
endanger the bloody Veil. Of course, Owl told him to retreive the
object that he was after, but failed to keep, so we'll see what
happens next; that player has been out of the loop for a little bit
as he relearns to walk. (A silver bullet got him in the spine and
crippled his legs. OK, I was trying to kill him, as the character
at the time was problematic, being an inveterate loner; but since
the fomori got away with the object, he at least now has something
to do.)
The lost Silver Fang killed a wolf hunter up near Owen Sound, but no
one, at least, saw that besides the wolves concerned, and they don't
count. They were quite grateful, though, and taught him a few
things about what it means to have a pack, a family (Martyn's home
life was a bit dysfunctional; he never had a real family before, and
is now ill-suited and ill-prepared for Garou life.) He's planning on
visiting the main Fang caern up in northern Manitoba, and there
isn't much harm he can do there.
As for the actual pack (a lupus Fang, the Get, a Stargazer, and my
Bone Gnawer), their next step is to fulfill Hyperion's Quest. I
doubt they'll be harming the Veil much, but that remains to be seen.
The Gazer insisted on leading everyone into the Umbra, and botched
his roll (doh!) We stopped there, so I can either figure out where
to send them, or decide to give him another chance (though he did
roll a couple more times, and botched each time.)
See what I mean about a messy storyline?
Something funny also happened on the Moon. Remember the Viking
series of lunar explorers? Well, Viking 1 was shut off on August 7,
1980 by radio command. On August 7, 1999, it was turned back on
again, but NASA has no idea why, according to the news. :) Of
course, someone suggested they visit the moon, and asked what the
effect might be (beyond not being able to breathe as soon as they
stepped out of the Umbra). I _think_ I know what might happen - for
one thing, they'd never run out of Rage. :)
SA> She's
SA> bound to become a bee in the Garou's bonnet before long.
DL> Not just the Garou. Alittle paranoia can go a long way.
Oh, no kidding. At the start, I was wondering how to keep everyone
busy. At least the players answered that question for me through
their actions. :)
SA> Worse, at the last session, an Uktena businessman of sorts (who was
SA> actually born to Black Spiral parents, but was rescued by a Gangrel)
SA> let a BSD corporate facilitator get away from him - and she ran off
SA> across Yonge St in a Fox frenzy. And what do you know .. there's a
SA> reporter and a photographer from the Toronto Sun wandering down
SA> their street on their way to cover some business news. (I didn't
SA> bother rolling for them, because I thought it would be just the
SA> story element to throw in. Heh. "Giant Wolverine Causes Havoc on
SA> Yonge!")
DL> "...Elvis seen giving chase. Story on page 5".
Bigfoot watches from the sidelines! Yeah! :)
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... The sacred lies in the ordinary.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 252/140 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10
SEEN-BY: 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Doug Lee
|Sub: Fundy Silliness 2 [2/5]
|Date: 10 Jan 97 09:58:00
EID:3402 222a4f40
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32d7cdbe
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Doug Lee cast Fundy Silliness 2 [2/5] at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> "This games lets all of your fantasies come true. This is a world
SA> where monsters, dragons, good and evil; high priests; fierce demons;
SA> and even the gods themselves may enter your character's life." Page
SA> 7 of D&D Handbook. (I think the bitch here is that AD&D gods do
SA> more in their game setting than YHWH has ever done. One god in the
SA> Forgotten Realms scenario, Ilmater, is listed as being the "god of
SA> the tortured" and his background states that he is prone to taking
SA> the place of innocents being subjected to torture. I played a
SA> cleric, Pelorus, who was loyal to this diety. And no, you stupid
SA> fundies, _I_ don't "believe in" Ilmater. - Wolfie)
DL> Oh. Flashback.
DL> You played clerics as well. They appealed to me as well. I always
DL> took heat from the other players for always playing "the clean up
DL> artist".
DL> Of all the deitys for my cleric, I always picked Ohgma the binder.
Hehehehe. Actually, for the one-shot games I used to play, I always
had a Halfling theif. With six throwing daggers on her belt. :)
Though for one game, I did have a short crossbow, but I ditched that
after everyone else talked me into shooting a spore thingy (looks
like a beholder - ie, it's a big eye - but has stalks on top and 1
hit point. When it goes boom, it throws out deadly spores all over
the place. I was the only one who survived that little encounter -
I made MY saving roll. Heh.)
For the last game, which basically died thanks to a weenie munchkin
power-gamer (we kicked him out too late; the whole story was already
destroyed, and no one could remember their raison d'etres by then)
that's when I made up the cleric - a pacifist, no less. It was
quite interesting trying to keep him in character in Undermountain.
Worse, some freaks kept attacking my temple, so I had little choice
but to beat them soundly over the head with my Rod of Flailing.
(Yes, it was a bad choice, but we were playing high-level characters
- I was 9th level - and we were allowed two minor magic items, and
one major one. The minor ones were easy - a +2 ring of protection
(the DM _told_ me to take it), and something else .. I did want
something for self-defense, and the rod seemed the most obvious.
Unfortunately, flails ARE instruments of torture, something Ilmater
frowns upon. But I _did_ save a Kobold child from being tortured by
a living wall .. hey, I didn't know what it was from the
description. And his parents were grateful enough to give me a
couple of doses of a Potion of Tongues.)
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... "I want to hear you scream in pain." "Play some Rap"
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 17 Jan 97 14:23:50
EID:c212 223172e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32dfd329
David Worrell said "One of yours?" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> people keep finding new people to watch me. Sometimes,
DM> some of these and other people gratify themselves or
DM> each other sexually while invading my privacy in all
DW> Hell, I'd *like* to see Kate Capshaw, Rachael Hunter,
DW> Natalie Merchant, and Sheryl Crow gratify themselves
DW> sexually, either one at a time or all together. :)
I don't know any of these people, but then with such a
limited acquaintance, I suppose I cannot afford to be too
fussy.
DW> I can understand, though, that watching Bob Dylan would
DW> be traumatic.
Better than listening to him.
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.
DW> They're hoping to see Rachael Hunter, of course. I've
DW> got no idea what she's doing there.
They let her watch because she is paying the rent?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Carl Pollock
|Sub: Bugging out
|Date: 17 Jan 97 14:24:51
EID:04e7 22317300
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32dfd32a
Carl Pollock said "Bye Bye!" to ALL,
adding:
CP> Just so you all know, I don't think I'll be resonding to anyone's
CP> mail any time shortly, you see I have found a new "toy" (the internet)
CP> and have gotten so engrossed in that, I have no time for a hundred
CP> emails a day from people who read my mail and then, with out fully
CP> understanding what I'm talking about, respond to it and ask me
CP> questions that I've answered a hundred times before. (Flame me all you
CP> want for that, I WON'T BE AROUND TO READ IT!!! Ha ha!!)
You weren't all that good at reading it when you _were_
here. Glad you found some graphics you could comprehend.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Mormons = Christians
|Date: 17 Jan 97 14:26:12
EID:f9ca 22317340
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32dfd32b
Dan Ceppa said "Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck" to Jim Staal,
adding:
FR> Mormons _are_ Christians you ignorant buttfuck bigot.
JS> Hmmm...evidence? (that they are Christians and that I am ignorant, a
JS> buttf**k or a bigot)
DC> All three are equally evident, Jimbo. Especially that last two.
Inasmuch as Jimbo has been providing the stuff by the
ton for that last two practically every day for the past
three years or so, it would appear that he is incapable of
comprehending his own posts.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Frederic Rice
|Sub: Barbaric Christian rituals
|Date: 17 Jan 97 14:27:03
EID:13e4 22317360
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32dfd32c
Fredric Rice said "Barbaric Christian rituals" to Don Martin,
adding:
dm> summoned. He murmurs the appropriate words whilst inserting
dm> a syringe up her vagina, squirts (using unsterilized holy
dm> water, to be sure) and baptizes the pup. Should the woman
dm> manage to survive both that ordeal and the birth, she has an
dm> excellent chance of going septic from the squirt.
FR> You've ___got___ to be kidding! They don't actually do this, do
FR> they?!
One would hope not, but they certainly _did_ do it, if
Philip Wylie is to be believed (and I have not caught him
lying to me yet). I read it in (I think) _Generation of
Vipers_ some decades ago.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: True Folk
|Date: 17 Jan 97 10:04:49
EID:c1e5 22315080
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2df962a0
Hello DAVID!
DAVID RICE wrote in a message to MIMI MILSTEIN:
MM> I do, however, have translations of the libretto to
MM> both English and French. A 200 page book was included
MM> with the complete record set of The Ring, conducted
MM> by Herbert von Karajan, by Deutsche Grammophon.
DR> Cool! Stuck up your hands and hand it over! :-)
MM> So there, Deutsche Grammophon, Salter, and Mann should
MM> get you going in a library search :-)
If it wasn't in such an awkward format (same size as an
LP album) I would volunteer to mail you a photocopy.
If your searches come up with zero I might still go to a
copy shop and get you a reduced copy.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: ?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:30:00
EID:42e4 223263c0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2e109e40
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32df2ed9
Hello Gwenny!
Gwenny the Pooh wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
about the debate with Robert Curry
MM> I still feel the Alkaseltzers would do your overabundance
MM> of acidity a world of good. Try it, you will like it!
MM> Your image might even change from "Beethoven on the potty"
MM> to "Walt Disney's Blossom".
RC>> Maybe you should lie down for a while.
MM> Maybe... but I am worried I will doze off and start having
MM> improper fantasies about you :-)
GtP> ROFL!! And to think I was ever anxious about you holding
GtP> your own here. (I have this terrible problem worrying about
GtP> newbies that I like .)
Don't worry, Gwenny - I find him tremendously entertaining.
The choleric temperament will always give the rest of us
a humoristic charge :-))))
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:13:08
EID:d875 2232a9a0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2232a9a4
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> Oops indeed. For the whole point is Jesus DID die, Hector mine.
There goes Al, trying to claim what's not his again...
AS>> If He didn't actually die, the whole point is lost.
DC> And, according to your mythos, isn't he supposedly alive again?
It's worse than that. According to the mythos, Jess was god and therefore
could
not die. He was around to turn his back on himself, after all.
The whole point is indeed lost -- it's a silly religion, even as religions
go.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:13:12
EID:4e35 2232a9a0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2232a9a6
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
MB>> When he prayed for relief from the inevitable, he followed it
MB>> by saying Thy will be done, so he did get exactly what he asked
MB>> for.
AS> Maybe it's something those of us should pray should ALWAYS include in
AS> our prayers.
Funny, in Jess' case (according to your mythos) it makes no sense, as he
was in
effect simply talking to himself. But then, to fundies, no sense makes
sense,
right, Al? :-)
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:13:16
EID:8e5e 2232a9a0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2232a9a8
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
LW>> poor tool for studying phenomena outside its purview. Since God is
LW>> spiritual and not material, science is the wrong tool for the job.
DC> What would you suggest, Lee? Holding a s‚ance?
ROFL! Lee wants you to call a psychic hotline, of course. Or, better,
just
take his word for it.
Evidence is a dirty word if you don't have any.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:13:20
EID:17bc 2232a9a0
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 2232a9aa
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>>> Lee's "theory which is not a theory" is dismembered by
HP>>> Occam's Razor.
LW>> So is the theory that matter exists as matter.
RC> ROFL!
RC> Have you ever heard of the reflexive property, Lee?
I don't think he gets it. :-)
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:32:17
EID:ac36 2231b400
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2197481b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32ded5b1
17 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Ed Mills:
-> On 14 Jan 97 17:40:41, Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Nice to see you found your way back into the fray!
EM> I missed y'all. Going without for nigh onto a month was very
EM> trying for a dedicated shit-disturber with very few other
DC> I'm setting up an emergency Holysmoke feed network. It will
DC> work for other Echoes, of course, but it's damned hard to
DC> keep up in this Echo, for sure!
I can pull a cord and a hydrogen sulfide mask will drop
from the overhead compartment?
EM> -!- PPoint 2.00
DC> I've dropped that in favor of my new setup. Not fully
DC> straight forward, however, I'm finally able to use BW
DC> again as my OLR.
I has never used anything else. Have got no experience to
compare. Is Blue Wave more or less complicated? Does it work
with any terminal program?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: demonic make believe
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:40:06
EID:f287 2231b500
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7d962956
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f617
16 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from ROBERT CURRY to ED MILLS:
RC> I think that some harmless (especially fun and creative)
RC> make believe can serve as an innoculation against more harmful
RC> make believe.
EM> Oh wow. You mean there's really no such thing as the Toilet
EM> Monster?
RC> That's no way to refer to the Tidy Bowl Man.
EM> I bought this assault rifle for nothing?
RC> Say, could I borrow that for just a moment, please?
You gonna do what them Germans keep sayin' to do?
I dunno why they keep telling me to off some guy named
Wiedersehn. He never done nuthin' to me.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: Saint Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: idle
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:42:51
EID:fa42 2231b540
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f652cc5e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32def19a
17 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Ed Mills:
-> On 15 Jan 97 14:27:43, Ed Mills got back to ALL
EM> save the feeble and sickly. The sanctimonious Wiens, the
DC> Please, take your time and do your best to get that son of
DC> a bitch back here.
"I wanna see heaped, dead, burnt bodies and things in my teeth.
I wanna kill. Kill! KILL! KILLLL!"
OK, Arlo, I'll do my best. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:12:42
EID:1553 22328980
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14ada
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbbb53
REALNAME: Ken Young
GP> "garner more respect than the shouters." Bakker and Swaggart
GP> fall under the heading of shouters.
Jd> Shouters?...Swaggart is a goose-stepping reptilian slime.
And what do we base this on? That he fell? That he made a mistake? Or
could it just be because he is a man of God that you disagree with?
He steps on geese? Nope.. Don't recall that.. I'm sure the leftist media
would have reported that.
Jd> Bakker, on the other hand, is a victim of great injustice.
Jd> He was to christendom what Homer Simpson is to Suburbia.
Jd> Bakker's philandering, Tammy's tears, dwarf-like Timmy, and the
Jd> airconditioned doghouse were every bit as endearing as the Adams Family.
Jd> They were a great loss to televison comedy, and their downfall was
Jd> caused by Swaggart's jealousy of their success. So what if they
Jd> 'overbooked' their theme park a little - don't the airlines do it all
Jd> the time?
Baker a victim of injustice? He did break the law.. But, I will say that
Tammy was just as guilty, if not more so..
Sure, Swaggart was jealous of a possible gay and makeup addict.. Whatever
you say..
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:18:20
EID:534a 22328a40
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14c2c
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbbb5a
REALNAME: Ken Young
KD> Promisekeepers is an organization intended to destroy my rights. As
KD> such I will oppose it until it is shown to be what it is.
Jd> Promisekeepers is an organization of the followers of someone
Jd> who promised to return before the end of his own generation.
Jd> That was two thousand years ago, and he ain't returned yet.
Not necessarily.. Several leaders of the Promisekeepers are trying to get
the group to accept people outside of the Christian faith in their group..
Well, if he did, you probably wouldn't have even noticed..
But no, He shall be coming, and very soon.. But even if it wasn't true,
so what? If I am wrong, I lose nothing.. Now, what if non-Christians are
wrong? What do they lose? A great deal more..
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Idiot postings
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:21:26
EID:1d5b 22328aa0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14ce6
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbc0f2
REALNAME: Ken Young
GP> Yeah, we've had a couple slip through.
Jd> Shees...if the stupid were excluded, there'd be no fundees here, and
no
Jd> fun!
SO, if one disagrees with you, they are stupid.. I am so glad you have an
open mind about it..
BTW, a fundy is not necessarily a Christian. One of just about any faith
could be a fundy.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Celsus
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:23:38
EID:a707 22328ae0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14d6a
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dbfb2a
REALNAME: Ken Young
AS> not pagans, but human beings---tend to want to suppress what they
AS> disagree with.
Jd> Thanks Al, for pointing out that _christian_ behaviour is no better
Jd> than anyone else's, in spite of their claims to be following a path
of
Jd> higher morality and ethics.
Jd> In other words, they're lying.
Not lying, more like trying.. We are only human, and are far from perfect.
Yes, Christians should be different from the rest, at least spiritually.
But unfortunately, now and then, CHristians may let their carnality take
over.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:28:48
EID:2fa2 22328b80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14ea0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dc539b
REALNAME: Ken Young
Jd> Lord who?
Jd> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker with a car
Jd> purchase?
Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should actually be the
pilot. We should let Him take over, and just enjoy the ride.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Patriot
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:30:50
EID:07af 22328bc0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32e14f1a
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32dc53a0
REALNAME: Ken Young
TE> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes
DC> Just another trick the Indians used to help get their bounty
DC> from the white men. The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
DC> not white men, but other Indians.
DC> Deal with it. It's your history and ancestory.
Jd> Wasn't it the whites who taught scalping to the Indians?
Not quite.. Some of both actually took part in scalping..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Gay Marriage?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:39:00
EID:334e 22327ce0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0eedf
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32dfeda5
PID: GED3 2.5
GT> When boild down to it, _all_ marriage laws violate the US
GT> Constitution
Which clauses of the Constitution are being violated, scarf boy?
GT> (as well as ethics and honour.)
Holding to vows is not ethical and honorable? Since when?
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Al's deliberate delusions
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:42:15
EID:2e54 22327d40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0ef74
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67043
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Jan 97 13:20, ROBERT CURRY wrote to FREDRIC RICE:
FR>>> ~*~ EVERYONE FROM THE SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST.
FR>>> - Christopher Calabrese
as>> I don't usually comment on taglines, but what the hey, since it
as>> was obviously to get my goat. All I can say is that you just
as>> also maligned Robert Curry, David Worrell, Mike Hardy, and
as>> many another participants here.
RC> Oh, the horror of it! I feel so _maligned_. LOL!
Am I gonna have to kick yer ass? :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 18 Jan 97 16:00:47
EID:ef69 22328000
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0f3c4
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67049
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Jan 97 13:20, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAN CEPPA:
RC> I would advise taking John's "info" with a hefty helping of salt.
RC> Each time I question him about it, he responds that he heard it
RC> on the PHYSICS echo -- hardly the best source for a basic education
RC> in math.
Do you participate in PHYSICS? I wonder if John uses the same dodge, in
reverse, there.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: better or worse
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:45:47
EID:0a4e 22327da0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0f047
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e6704b
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Jan 97 15:30, ROBERT CURRY wrote to LEE WOOFENDEN:
RC> Indeed, we could do that for all sorts of fantastic phantoms. Would
RC> the world be better or worse, for instance, with a Santa Claus in it?
Better. At least I'd have a steady supply of coal.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 15:52:28
EID:9883 22327e80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e0f2c1
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21e67056
PID: GED3 2.5
17 Jan 97 16:23, ROBERT CURRY wrote to GWENNY THE POOH:
GTP>> As I said in another post, I could do what the Mormon did.
GTP>> Starve her. Abuse her emotionally. Reject her based on
GTP>> a superficial characteristic that does not define who she is.
RC> I don't think you could. You have better sense than that.
Does she? When things got too hot for her here, she brought her kids in
to take some of the heat off. And those kids were woefully unprepared.
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 16:03:39
EID:43d5 22328060
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e119cb
REPLY: 1:124/9005 32e035e0
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Jan 97 02:28, Steve Quarrella wrote to Gwenny the Pooh:
SQ> Making fun of something over which a person has no control (weight OR
SQ> skin colour) is amateurish.
Do you really believe that people have no control over their weight, outside
of a few medically related instances? Take a gander at the website mentioned
by Gwen a couple of days ago and tell me if you think there's a medical
condition involved.
Regardless, the point of the "fat" thread was not to make fun of fat people.
It was to underline a dichotomy in Gwen's persona, and to draw out silly-assed
comments. Both goals were acheived.
As for skin color, take a look at Michael Jackson. :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 16 Jan 97 13:23:00
EID:abff 22306ae0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE634
DH>Hi, Gwenny!
DH> GTP> Just want to know. Are you joining the David/JJ side of the flame
DH> GTP> war. I like to know the enemy.
DH>Nope. I'm too old and tired for a flame war right now. I'm just
[ This is just.......
DH>reading away. The image of a turnip cowering in the cold cellar
DH>leapt irrisistably to mind.
.......so funny ]
even the second time around.
* SLMR 2.1a * tie 99% of my brain behind my back so its a fair fight
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ...
|Date: 16 Jan 97 13:57:00
EID:8abe 22306f20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE636
DC>-> On 11 Jan 97 05:28:06, Al Schroeder got back to Marilyn Burge
DC> AS> And notice that the EXACT SAME PERSON who said that prayed in the
DC> AS> Garden of Gethsemene to have "this burden lifted from me"...He was
not
DC>And yet another example to show that prayer doesn't work.
DC>After all, if it doesn't work for a godling, why should it
DC>work for mere mortals?
Bet a beer, Al's answer has a 'BUT' hidden in there somewhere.
If i lose, I get to down a micro_gram of scotch.
DC>... Close your eyes, click your heels together 3 times and yell "IS NOT!"
* SLMR 2.1a * +After God created woman, beer was the bug FIX.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Re: Mustard Bath!
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:05:00
EID:070e 223098a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE637
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-12-97 (13:02)
From: JAN DEBOER
To: FREDRIC RICE
Subj: Re: Mustard Bath!
-
JD>On 09 Jan 97 21:14:30 Fredric Rice wrote to DAVID RICE...
JD> dr> Three days ago I rewired the whole jesused jesus system
JD> dr> again--- the third time. Now I am happy with it. Now it
JD> dr> has heavy wire, crimped splices, crimped lugs, and the
JD> dr> inline fuse. I was confused on the color scheme since it
JD> dr> has two or three positive leads and one negative lead.
JD> dr> Looking at the switches one sees red wires on both sides,
JD> dr> but at the pump and batter one sees one black and one
JD> dr> red wire.
JD>Crimped connections, copper wire, & salt air? Oooooooooooohhh, Gawd is
JD>gonna love you! Greenies growing under the plastic crimps.
JD>Corrosion, intermittent, heat, heat, smoke fire! Bad, bad.
JD>God hates soldered connections.
The boy not used to Canada roads + salt. Teachs us those little
problems.
* SLMR 2.1a * Scotland: The Women are fierce and the Men wear skirts.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: High Society
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:13:00
EID:4931 223099a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE638
RM>He was wrong.
RM>I think this old geezer's name was Truman. Whether his first name was
RM>Harry or not I don't recall. But he was definitely NOT a former president
RM>.
Thats the way the movie played it, Harry Truman. Fact or fiction
, I have no idea, if it did play a real person. Again going by the
movie, he had never been a president of the old USA.
* SLMR 2.1a * SATANIC-adj. Anything a fundi doesn't like.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 16 Jan 97 19:53:00
EID:8ead 22309ea0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE639
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-15-97 (00:32) Number: 38507
From: DAN CEPPA Refer#: NONE
To: TIGER EYES Recvd: NO
Subj: Native Americans Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DC>-> On 12 Jan 97 13:41:20, Tiger Eyes got back to David Worrell
DC> TE> gonorrhea-syphilis infected race comes to a land of friendly
DC>Got a clue as to the origin of syphilis?
DC>Check with Glodberg. I'm sure you will find it's origins a
DC>bit different than what you think.
DC>Hopefully, you won't dismiss his answer asbeing from a person of
DC>"non-American Indian" origin.
So we exchange smallpox for syphilis.
* SLMR 2.1a * Religion is the opium of the masses. --Karl Marx
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:37:00
EID:7062 2230a4a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE63A
===========================================================================
BBS: The Devil's Advocate
Date: 01-13-97 (19:06) Number: 38225
From: KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT Refer#: NONE
To: RONALD VASS Recvd: YES
Subj: The Alignment List 01/ Conf: (29) HOLYSMOKE_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
KW>RV>DC>-> On 01 Jan 97 10:52:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to All
KW>RV>> KW> WHO'S WHO: THE ALIGNMENT LIST:
KW>RV>> KW> ---- Becke Boyer, Harrisburg, PA. eclectic Wiccan
At
KW>RV>> KW> #holysmoke. (Continued to next message)
KW>RV>DC>Never saw the , at least not in this packet. :(
KW>RV>You expected a women to get it right.??....the 1'st time ?
KW>RV> Dream on.........................
KW>RV> { Harpy shield in place & tested }
KW>RV> [ Pies bounce off/avoid chocolate base materials ]
KW> After all, we're used to dealing with men. We're used
to
KW>things not working on the first try.
=== symptom of a female who is now tried of waiting for
male to swill down contaminate pie.
Image: two well lubricated females, fighting in bar just before
closeing time over an oversex male on the prowl.
Results: for less pain, male of < sweetsmile look > should, diverge
path to nearest exit. Max speed is advise for continue life of species.
signing off with a Al S.
[not really ]
>=====> and running like HELL out of here >======>
Have a Great Day....Goddess Winter_s_Night....... your chill tonight
is down to -35 C with windchill toss in.
Man-O-Man, your one cool customer, able to send a CHILL down
anyone spine.
[lol]
* SLMR 2.1a * I had a wet dream and shorted out my electric blanket
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 16 Jan 97 20:47:00
EID:d44d 2230a5e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE63B
JD> RV> I knew that answer, just after i raised a few animals. Though
JD> RV> during -that- time, assume a limited space. Trough, likely is enought
JD> RV> for a baby to lay, there in. The left over ends of hay, will sure
as
JD> RV> hell make a prickly bed for a new born.
JD>How come the kid didn't even have a crib.....after all, his father WAS
a
JD>carpenter!
We have a book of LIES that proclaims that the father was a carpenter.
Going by the LIES of the Jesus believers and the Lies within
the Church. Likely it is also a Lie.
It does make a good lead into the start of a theatrical act of
a god comeing to save humanity.
One could say, they crib the acts of others and improved it.
* SLMR 2.1a * At first they burn books. Eventually they burn people.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 16 Jan 97 21:29:00
EID:0ee4 2230aba0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32DEE63C
Date: 01-14-97 (10:31) Number: 38315
From: GWENNY THE POOH Refer#: NONE
To: DAN CEPPA Recvd: NO
GTP>While bumping down stairs after Christopher Robin, Gwenny the Pooh heard
GTP>Dan say to Tiger:
>TE>> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes
>DC> Just another trick the Indians used to help get their bounty
>DC> from the white men. The Indians earned their pay from scalping,
>DC> not white men, but other Indians.
>DC> Deal with it. It's your history and ancestory.
GTP>Boy, we seem to have done some dander raising ourselves. What is this,
the
GTP>atheists vs the Todds. It was a flame war, folks. Why is everyone
get
GTP>upset about us giving as good as we get? When this whole thing started
fol
GTP>kept telling me to get over it, David was just trolling.
Sure. Sure. You dump fresh blood into the water. Wound a few but
still liveing bait fish. NOW your dragging out the lines. For Shame
Pooh Bear, it was just getting going.
Here now. Have this nice honey pot. Beware the pie on the bottom,
and let the 'fish' fry a bit more.
* SLMR 2.1a * "God breaks his laws only when necessary." : Mikey Hardy
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: enochban.rit
|Date: 17 Jan 97 11:49:00
EID:465b 22315e20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32E0017A
=
Date: 01-13-97 (10:33)
From: CURTIS JOHNSON
To: RONALD VASS
Subj: enochban.rit
-
CJ>> The "Easter Eats" thread would have been interesting to
> RV> Who was that to/from "Easter Eats"...scan back a bit, didn't see
> RV> any thread with that name in subject field.
CJ> I'd changed the subject title. Too good to resist.
CJ> The thesis is that the Disciples did just what was asked of
CJ> them . . eat Him.
Well if one must have a late night snack, virgin/young meat
is better.
>CJ>> A manger is not the stable of the popular misunderstanding; it is
>CJ>> an eating trough.
> RV> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> RV> I knew that answer, just after i raised a few animals. Though
> RV> during -that- time, assume a limited space. Trough, likely is enought
> RV> for a baby to lay, there in. The left over ends of hay, will sure
as
> RV> hell make a prickly bed for a new born. Could work and for sure, it's
> RV> always there. So what do you have, Mary straddleing the trough during
> RV> the birth process. Match in to the last
> RV> supper, eat of my body, type of stuff. Food at the start, food at
the
> RV> end, and pain during both processes. Spices at the start in place
of
> RV> wine at the end, blood spilled in both process.
CJ> Hmmm. . . . are you suggesting that Jesus was the original
CJ> straw man?
Going by the morals followed by Jesus followers, it would appear
that way.
> RV> I don't see where you get --to make it seasonal--"born in a manger."
If
> RV> the animals or at least one was kept around,
> RV> the manger would be in use 'year round'. If your assumeing not, then
it
> RV> would likely drag it in from Nov to March. Wide open either way, i
woul
> RV> guess. If the event did happen at an Inn, then it would very likely
be
> RV> in use, year round and that would blow your 'seasonal' bit , right
out
> RV> of the water.
CJ> Not even in the Middle East, mind you, does lambing happen
CJ> in the mid-winter!
One...... 1'st you would have to show that it was only lambing,
when it happen. ie: a God Son Birth
Next, you would have to show, that the inn never had another
animal around. ie: milking animal
If an inn, then there would be the more likely , to be around
and in use. If an inn, then history of the pass, would likely
be the better truth.
The better inns had either an animal around for milk, see a baby
in need or animals for the high and mightly for a late snack.
That is going to be a bitch to show otherwise.
CJ> But the practice continued into Elizabethan times, at
least. It was much easier for innkeepers to wash than the
CJ> sepearate china. Even a couple of decades ago, a term for
.................>
CJ> somebody who ate a lot was "trencherman."
[ question ]
IE: .............'innkeepers - wash - seperate china'
Ok. I'm a dummy . So what are you talking about here. Feed the people in
the barn. Easier in clean up. Thats a new one. Butcher an animal, i can
see in the barn. But the ones who stay at an inn ?
Weird Idea.
[ another point ... going by what i have heard/told ]
IE: ----- "trenchman" ------
Well going by tales handed down through the family. Reason for
that is that the man in the trench, never knows when he may get
food again/eat again. Going by the tales, when food is around and
better then what your carrying, you eat all you can.
You NEVER KNOW when again you may eat again or if you will live
long enought to eat. Sounds reasonable to me.
>CJ>> Do you sing "Auld Lang Syne" on New Year's?
Twice i went out to house parties. Twice i did join in. Then
too, i did get laid at one party. Perhaps it is sometimes worth the
effort.
> RV> The last person who was as crude, cruel, like that, got crucify
> RV> last year about this time. Are we going for another one ?
CJ> Seyz you. Your grandpop got plowed under by a rainbuck.
What the hell is "rainbuck" ? ........
< ignore the rest... just me nattering... doesn't apply to
your post >
...... The one grandpop in family
history did get his arm blowen off from artillery.
ie: See African . . . See Boor War...
With that family tales, it was the 1'st i heard a body could
still run after a head was blowen off. Glad i wasn't there, don't think
i would like that type of liveing, nor haveing to buy my liveing body
out of the kings service. I got grandmothers receipt when she paid the
'kings price' to get her husband out of the army. Then the blacks think
it was only them that were slaves. What a joke that is. Till i clean
mothers house out, I always thought it was a bullshit story. Women
keep the weirdest things.
I also found the letters i wrote on Birch Bark when i was up north.
Boy you think i say/write things weird now. At 16 what a laught. I
burned the fuckers in case someone would want to use them to class
me as a crazy. Open/Shut case useing those.......
* SLMR 2.1a * Is ignorance worse than apathy? I don't know & don't care
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: -***- From Beyond The Grave. -***- (1:221/1503)
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|From: Sam Ferguson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Fundy lost library book.
|Date: 17 Jan 97 21:58:00
EID:8554 2231af40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e04a48
Not making fun of you, Sam. Just making a point. Anybody can say things
AS> are changed from the original. Evidence for same is a little
different.
Yet you have no evidence other than faith that it is original. I can
prove that in historical records engraved in the walls in Egypt
preceding Jesus by some 1700 years that the Jesus myth was copied from
the Egyptian myth. They had their Jesus who raised Lazarus from the dead
at Bethany, was born of a virgin, had the gifts of the magi, and went
thru every step that the later Jesus supposedly made. That may not prove
it didn't repeat but it sure wasn't a new Gospel if it was the same
story. There were 182 instances where the records were duplicated. It
included the crucifixion and resurrection.
This myth studied in the light of a higher meaning thru the allegory is
very revealing. Taken literally it makes a good fairy tale for a child.
AS> They've been doing it for years for me, Sam. Must like you
better. Or AS> maybe they waive it for those who have disabilities or
who are older. AS> Now, this is for books outside of Metro/Davidson
County. They'll get AS> books from other libraries WITHIN the system
free of charge, of course.
I have gotten them from mostly local and N. Car. It may be no charge for
handicap and old people after all. I would prefer a little break from my
property tax. Bredesen has lost his mind on spending and building and
keeps the library and schools like a dangling carrot so we will build up
the city for Gaylord entertainment. My taxes have doubled since he took
office. And I thought Dick Fulton and Sandra could spend money. They
dont hold him a candle.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X A blimp with an airbag is redundant.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Sam Ferguson
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:14:02
EID:da15 2231b1c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32e04e0a
Al I hate to type but have posted some to religious seek at Skeeter
Haven or Homestead in the last week, that I think you may like to
ponder. I think skeeter keeps them longer. The book by Andrew White that
was lifted from the library has been sent in from out of town. I'm going
to pick up this week end so if you are interested you can put it on
hold. I won't keep it long. It's "The War between Science and religion."
As you cited Schweitzer uou should also know he came to the conclusion
of mysticism.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X A blonde saw a sign that said, Wet Cement, so she did!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 18 Jan 97 11:01:00
EID:64ed 22325820
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32e10a6f
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd6978
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about Quote:
LW> understand yet--except a few times when your sentences were so
LW> ungrammatical that it was hard to know for sure.
DC> As I suggested, try passing pre-school this next time you attend.
Looks like I'll have to continue to correct your writing. In this particular
sentence, you included a needless word, "this," making it an awkward sentence.
LW> I'm not talking about the _level_ of your writing. I'm talking about
LW> its emotional tone.
DC> They are words, Lee. I'm not talking, I'm writing.
Emotional tone can be expressed through written as well as spoken words,
Dan.
Otherwise novels would be rather boring affairs.
DC> I stand by my statement that you are afraid that your god doesn't
DC> exist.
LW> I hope you're having fun standing there.
LW> Do you have any evidence for this claim?
DC> That you need a god?
No. For your statement that I am afraid that my god doesn't exist.
It was a joke. But you're welcome to provide evidence if you wish. It would
be
the first time you have provided evidence for any of your claims about me.
DC> Now, Lee, state here that there is no evidence that your god
DC> exists.
In my opinion, there is and can be no _scientific_ evidence demonstrating
that
God exists. I've stated this many times, Dan. And since scientific evidence
seems to be the only kind you accept, this statement will do for you, won't
it?
Let me know.
DC> Show me, once and for all to see, that you don't need to believe
DC> in your god or any god for that matter.
I don't _need_ to believe in God in the sense you seem to be using that
word. I
_choose_ to believe in God. I could decide not to believe in God any time
I
wanted to. But instead I choose to believe in God.
Syntactical note: you have run together two idiomatic phrases: "once and
for
all" and "for all to see." Awkward style. Also, this is a run-on sentence.
There should be a dash after the first instance of "god."
DC> And, if you decide that you need a god, provide the evidence
DC> that that god(s) exist.
Those are two different issues. Deciding that one needs God and providing
evidence that God exists. One has to do with personal faith and belief.
The
other has to do with scientific demonstration.
Punctuation: remove the needless comma after "And."
Syntax: "god(s)" (singular or plural) disagrees with its antecedent, "a
god"
(singular), and with its verb, "exist" (singular).
--Lee
... You should mince words--it makes them easier to eat later.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 11:29:00
EID:0863 22325ba0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32e10a70
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32dd6a86
Here's what Dan Ceppa said to Lee Woofenden about so...now what?:
LW> Gee, Dan. There is more than one definition of "theory." How about in
LW> your dictionary?
DC> Gee, Lee, are you tired of shooting yourself in the foot? Next
LW> If you had said "Then it is not a scientific theory, Lee," I would
LW> have agreed with you. But that is not what you said.
DC> Lee, just how long have your actually read messages here? The
DC> only ones that post non-scientific theories and call them "theories"
DC> are fundys.
This is not a science debate echo. It is a religion debate echo. Therefore,
it
should not be assumed that any theory presented is a scientific theory unless
stated otherwise.
Spelling note: "fundys" should be spelled "fundies," following standard
English
rules for forming plurals.
--Lee
... A single fact can spoil a good argument.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Show the relevance, Fred. Go on. Do it. We're waiting. Go ah
|Date: 18 Jan 97 11:34:00
EID:b56e 22325c40
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32e10a71
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792d9f0
Here's what Fredric Rice said to Lee Woofenden about Jump, Lee. Go on. Do
it.
Jump. We're waiting. Go ahead.:
FR> The MGM Grand Hotel is a good place for you to prove that your deity
FR> constructs exist, Lee. Take the experiment. Go ahead. I'll pay you
FR> $100.00 to do it.
I will pay _you_ (or anyone else) $100 if you can either 1) explain how
the
experiment is useful in corroborating or falsifying the theory I presented
earlier, or 2) explain how the experiment would be capable of demonstrating
to
others that my "deity construct" exists or does not exist. (These are two
distinct issues.)
Here are the rules of the contest:
Answer either one (or both) of the following pairs of questions:
1) Would the tall building experiment be capable of either corroborating
or
falsifying the variant of philosophical idealism that I presented earlier
in
this echo? If so, how?
2) If I performed the tall building experiment, would it be capable of
demonstrating to people other than myself either that my "deity construct"
exists or that my "deity construct" does not exist? If so, how?
I will send a check for $100 to the first person who gives an affirmative
answer to the first question of either pair, and provides an answer to the
second question of that pair that can stand up to scrutiny.
Explain the relevance, Fred. Go on. Do it. We're waiting. Go ahead. You
don't
even have to get up off your chair. $100 says you can't do it.
--Lee
... Garbage in, garbage out!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Why "we" don't see God[si
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:10:00
EID:3af1 22326140
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32e10a72
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792d9f1
Here's what Fredric Rice said to Lee Woofenden about Why "we" don't see
God[si:
DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods, "non-usually"
DR> or otherwise?
LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts,
DR> One cannot "reject" what does not exist, nor "reject" evidence
DR> that has never ever ever been presented. By all means, do
DR> produce your "eye-witness" if you have one.
lw> It would be absurd for you to claim that no one has
lw> ever given written or verbal accounts of having seen God.
FR> You changed subjects, idiot.
Oh? What was the subject? And what did I change it to?
FR> Everyone knows that many people are willfully ignorant and
FR> believe in a broad number of occult nonsense. You're evidence of
FR> that.
That was not the subject, Fred. _You_ changed the subject. The subject that
David responded to in the second quote from him above was whether there
are
eyewitness accounts of seeing God. And the original subject was whether
anyone
has seen God. My statements were relevant to both subjects. How is _your_
statement relevant to either one?
FR> Why not address the issue that debunked your ignorant stupidity rather
FR> rthan change subjects and buttfuck yourself as usual? COuld it be
FR> because you know you are utterly incapable of defending your willful
FR> delusions?
I'll give you one thing, Fred. Even though your posts are generally irrelevant,
at least they're entertaining!
--Lee
... You want to repeat that?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Lee W. Take up a collect
|Date: 18 Jan 97 14:01:00
EID:36a3 22327020
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32e11efd
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07908529
Here's what Fredric Rice said to Dan Ceppa about Lee W. Take up a collect:
FR> If we can get a collection to get him to do it at HolySmoke
FR> Convention, I would pay up big bucks to the contribution. The MGM
FR> Grand Hotel should be tall enough.
I hereby donate all money contributed to the jackpot of my contest challenging
anyone to explain the relevance of the experiment.
--Lee
... You can observe a lot by just watching.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:00
EID:1d63 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f7349
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> We don't now grant 'standard reality' to "infinitesimals"
JB>> in math;
RC> You are again full of shit, John. Why are you pretending to be an
JB> Not I, sir; the book I'm reading,
Does it have a title? An author, perhaps?
JB> which, although I haven't finished it, says the calculus
JB> wasn't free of these buggers until some people decided Leibnitz
Leibniz.
JB> was _wrong_ about infinitesimals' mathematical reality.
His usage was intuitive and required developments which were not made
until much later. Meanwhile, Calculus became defined via other means.
RC> authority on the subject when you so clearly lack even a
RC> rudimentary understanding of it? Is your ego getting the
RC> better of you?
JB> Grant an author authority, get burned, eh? Wasn't _my_ fault....
No, I don't suppose you would accept much responsibility for spreading
misinformation based on a partial reading of a book you barely even
understand.
Could you quote the part where this unnamed author supposedly states
we don't now grant standard reality to infinitesimals in math?
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: numbers, all
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:01
EID:e181 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734a
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> [Zero] was invented more recently than "number" was.
JB>> We seem to have gotten along without it for a long time....
RC> We got along without the square root of -1 for a long time, too.
RC> Are you next going to claim that it is also "not a number?"
JB> Another "iffy" item, eh?
Not in the least. The technology you are using to read this message
is predicated upon the quite practical application of it. Tada!
JB> That one's "imaginary"--it cannot exist, according to the rules
JB> of math
ROFL! Speaking as an authority again, are you?
I knew there was a reason for you being my favorite echo-crackpot.
JB> (squaring a number cannot give you a negative number).
Provided you restrict your self to a certain set of numbers. But then,
if you restrict yourself to another set of numbers, then the square
root of two doesn't exist, either. In _THAT_ restricted set.
A little broadening of your horizons solves the problem of existence
quite naturally, John -- this is all old news; some older than 2300
years, and some only four to six centuries.
JB> If it is a number, _which_ number is it? (*grin*)
"It" can be either one of the two units in the Gaussian integers
which are orthogonal to the multiplicative identity element.
Next question?
RC> How about the square root of two? Not a number?
RC> A googleplex? Not a number?
RC> The smallest of Cantor's infinites, aleph-null? Not a number?
JB> All numbers, far as I can tell. Zero, though....
Exactly the same. Numbers, all.
JB> The absence of a thing is not itself that thing. It's illogical
JB> to speak otherwise.
Zero is hardly "the absence of a thing" -- it is a cardinal number.
It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: quantum nutball shit
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:02
EID:65a8 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734b
TID: GE/2 1.2
JB>> (It is metaphysically erroneous, and leads to internal
JB>> contradictions.)
RC> You are full of shit.
JB> (*grin*) "AM NOT!"
Perhaps you are correct, as you appear to be leaking.
RC> The remainder of your post was cut off, btw -- too many lines
RC> for SLMR to process. You are suffering from Schroeder Syndrome.
JB> Uh-uh. Al suffers from Brawley syndrome.
Sorry, but there he has you beat hands down.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub: Am I getting through?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:03
EID:e1b6 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734c
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Jim Steingrobe
GTP> STEINY!!!!!!!! Welcome to Hell, dear.
That's what he is looking for, you know. I think he was upset earlier
because when he showed up in IRC, no one would torture him. The poor
masochist really and truly suffered while torment was denied him.
At least the people here are kind enough to be more obliging.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub: Mars
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:04
EID:36dc 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734d
TID: GE/2 1.2
GTP> I'm still in shock that we are continuing to get serious
GTP> answers to flames. Oh, well, if we ignore them, they
GTP> will die out.
A lesson that Brawley figured out . . . eventually, but not before
having the entire incident institutionalized in the nodelist.
* SLMR 2.1a *
--- GEcho/2 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The 128th Parallel Seminole,Fl 28.8k 813/397-1339 (1:3603/210)
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: JOHN BRAWLEY
|Sub: leggo my ego
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:05
EID:6b69 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734e
TID: GE/2 1.2
RC> Of what possible use is your insistence that all the mathematicians
RC> are wrong while you -- the Quantum Crackpot -- are right?
RC> Ego, is it?
JB> No: reason.
So what reason would that be, John, aside from your ego in a costume
that doesn't disguise it very well at all?
JB> Some things support themselves.
Whereas your claims do not. Amazing. I don't know how you could
possibly be so screwed up just because (1) you gullibly accept
what you hear on the PHYSICS echo as authoritative math, without
checking; (2) you make assertions based upon a poor partial reading
of some book that touches upon the early development of Calculus;
and (3) you prize your ego-driven crackpot notions above math that
actually works.
JB> I'm more confident of my crackpot geometric/topological views
JB> than of my abstract mathematical ones.
Setting aside for the moment that geometry and topology ARE abstract
mathematical notions -- you seem to imagine otherwise -- I don't
see reason for placing any confidence in your ego-driven crackpot
notions whatsoever.
JB> But the discussion between us has raised good points on both
JB> sides, would you not say?
No, I won't lie to spare your feelings, John.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 02:40:06
EID:9247 22321500
MSGID: 1:3603/210 223f734f
TID: GE/2 1.2
with: Fredric Rice
FR>> Do you honestly believe that people have no control over their
FR>> own weight?! Or that parents have no control over an offspring's
FR>> weight?
GTP> The "lie" is that he "simply pointed out". He did alot more
GTP> than that.
DW> What "more" did I do, Gwen?
It had something to do with twinkies, didn't it? But she's gone away
for a while. In the meantime, could I interest you in a Steingrobe?
He wants to be verbally spanked, and you seem qualified to help him.
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: DON MARTIN
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:22:01
EID:cc32 223292c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22b613f6
TID: GE/2 1.2
GTP> Okay. Who in this echo sleeps naked and wants to share a room
GTP> with two pagan women.
KW> Are you trying to start a stampede? Well, it's one way
KW> to sort out the boys from the men...
RC> Ahem. Is this going to be a convention event?
DM> Would you believe broad jumping?
Time to begin marathon training.
DM> Later, you say to David Worrell:
DW> Does anyone else here remember Matt Giwer?
RC> Does residing a few miles from him count?
DM> Gad, the wonders of living in Florida: intense humidity
DM> _and_ boredom in the same neighborhood. I expect you also
DM> have amusing insects.
Well, yes. I thought that was implied, actually.
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|From: ROBERT CURRY
|To: MARILYN BURGE
|Sub: more babbling schroeder
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:22:02
EID:9b51 223292c0
MSGID: 1:3603/210 22b613f7
TID: GE/2 1.2
AS> Are all of you proud for driving Jesse off?
MB> Nobody "ran Jesse off," as you so inaccurately put it.
Now there's a clause ("as you so inaccurately put it") that comes
to mind with just about every post of his that I see.
MB> ... A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance.
(heh)
* SLMR 2.1a *
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:30:00
EID:eaa5 22328bc0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e153211
-=> Quoting Roger Hunter to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Roger.
RH> Flunk basic science, did you?
RM> Sarcasm, eh? You should probably save that for some time when you're
RM> right.
RH> Sarcasm? Mild humor, by HolySmoke standards.
Mild sarcasm, no doubt, by comparison to others in these parts.
RH> Saecasm here is more like "Fucking moron".
Naw, that's just plain old personal invective. Sarcasm takes at least a
little bit of wit.
RH> Look, we assume that nature operates under consistent laws which are
RH> discoverable.
RM> And your evidence for that assumption? As opposed to some
RH> Basic assumptions of that sort are like axioms.
My point exactly. It's an unproven, untested, untestable assumption that
is basic to all of science. All scientific progress is ultimately based
on this assumption.
RH> They are the
RH> starting point. The difference is that mathematical axioms do
RH> not require proof, whereas scientific assumptions only stand
RH> as long as the evidence supports them.
And the evidence that supports this one? Has it ever been tested at all?
RM> Have you ever
RM> heard any scientist consider the possibility that some particular
RM> physical phenomenon might be inherently beyond our understanding?
RH> No. Have you?
No, I have not. And that is my point. You cannot claim that this is an
hypothesis which has been tested, and stood up to the test, when it
appears that no one has even considered (or appears willing to
consider) any alternative to it.
RH> Then we make observations, such as how long it takes an
RH> object to fall a given distance. We observe that the time is
RH> consistent (within experimental error). So observation supports the
RH> hypothesis.
RM> That's supports the hypothesis that the universe is understandable?
RM> And here I thought that it supported the hypothesis that all objects
RM> fall with
RM> the same acceleration. Since you apparently don't see any difference,
RM> let me explain in a little more detail.
RH> It was an example of evidence which supports the hypothesis, yes.
RH> Since you understood it, it would seem to be good evidence.
It wasn't evidence that supports the hypothesis that the universe is
understandable, only that things fall with the same acceleration.
RM> I'm a statistician (sometimes ). I spend part of my time trying
to
RH> Oh, worse than a damned liar, then.
Only sometimes .
RM> prove (or disprove) that there are real patterns in data. I am WELL
RM> aware
RM> that the human mind is quite capable of discerning patterns where no
RM> pattern exists. Scientists are human, so it's not surprising that
RM> they discern apparent patterns in their observations. Science just
RM> boldly
RM> assumes that such patterns exist (IMHO, a good assumption).
RM> Scientists then hypothesize about the FORM of the pattern, and test
RM> these hypotheses with further data, but science never tests the
RM> fundamental assumption that
RM> SOME sort of pattern must exist. In fact, it seems to me that that
RM> particular assumption cannot be tested at all. It is axiomatic to all
RM> of science.
RH> We assume that patterns exist, we look and find patterns, everyone
RH> finds the same patterns, and you think that's not evidence?
And we can all see the turtle in that cloud over there, right? I mean,
our minds are capable of seeing patterns in random data, and agreeing on
the pattern that we see there. Doesn't mean that the pattern is real.
Ever hear of backward masking?
RH> Have you met Lee W.?
Not in the flesh.
RM> Can you think of an observation that would make you abandon the
RM> assumption that the universe is understandable? If there is no
RM> observation that might make us abandon the assumption, it is not
RM> really a scientific hypothesis, is it?
RH> Yes, I can. If things which were stable started randomly changing,
RH> the assumption would fall.
Such observations exist, but scientists ignore them, and cling to the
assumption anyway.
In fact, your comment is an excellent description of turbulent flow.
Look at the smoke coming off of the end of a cigarette. For the first
little bit, it forms a nice, stable, predictable column. Then suddenly,
it breaks up into swirls and eddies, and apparently random jumbles of flow
and counter-flow.
It's a "thing which was stable and started randomly changing", as you put
it. It fits your description admirably. It has been known for centuries.
It is still not properly understood. But the existence of that
observation never caused ANYONE to abandon the assumption that the
universe is basically understandable.
We just assume that some day we will understand it. Generations of
scientists have simply IGNORED turbulence, and chosen other phenomena to
study. They have assumed that their inability to understand turbulence
was because they didn't have the tools to deal with it, and that when
those tools became available, they'd tackle the problem then. None of
them questioned that the phenomenon is fundamentally understandable.
RH> But it would take a LOT to convince us,
RH> because the weight of evidence up to now is very great.
Oh? You think that we understand most of the physical universe? Even a
large percentage of it? I think most scientists would say we've just
scratched the surface. And even then, all of the "evidence" you refer to
-
our scientific understanding of the universe - is BASED on this
assumption, and therefore can't really be considered as evidence in favour
of the assumption. Especially since we choose not to investigate the
very phenomena that might show the assumption is false - the ones (like
turbulence) that appear beyond our curent ability to understand.
RM> Oh? You don't believe that the universe is fundamentally
RM> understandable?
RH> No, I accept it as a working hypothesis, one well-tested by time.
RM> Now the question is, do you not accept that it is true that the
RM> universe is understandable? Do you not base some of your actions on
RM> that belief? Do you regularly entertain any doubt on the issue?
RH> Yes, subject to change as required. Yes. No, since I have seen
RH> no contrary evidence above the quantum level.
That fits the common definition of the word believe. You accept it as
true.
You accept it as true in spite of the fact that there is little if any
evidence in favour of it, but you justify your acceptance of it on the
basis that there is no evidence against it, and that it is a very useful
assumption to make (perfectly valid justifications, IMHO).
But it appears to me that in this thread you have gone a little farther,
in
that you try to present some data (ie. the body of knowlege developed by
science) as "evidence" in favour of the assumption, when in fact, that
data is itself BASED on the assumption.
RM> So let me ask it again: Are you using the term "belief" in it's
RM> standard meaning? I suspect you are using it the way most people
RM> would use the word "faith", but I may be wrong in that, so I'd
RH> I'm using belief in the sense of "Believe on the Lord and you will
RH> be saved". Equivalent to "unevidenced faith".
You clearly accept the hypothesis that the universe is understandable as
true (ie. believe in it in the common meaning of the term "believe").
Whether that belief is based on evidence or faith is what we are
discussing. So far, it looks more like unevidenced belief to me, but you
may still have some arguments that might change my mind.
I like to make a distinction between three types of belief: scientific
(for lack of a better word) belief, faith and superstition. All
three involve accepting something as true (ie. belief), the difference lies
in the basis of that acceptance. Scientific belief is based on
confirming evidence, faith is unevidenced belief, and superstition
is belief that persists in spite of contrary evidence.
I think that acceptance of the truth of the statement that things fall at
the same acceleration is scientific belief. Acceptance that there is a
Creator is faith. Acceptance that the Creator made the entire universe
in
6 days in 4004 BC is superstition.
It appears to me that you lump what I call faith and superstition
together and call that "belief". This could be a cause of
misunderstanding with people who use the term "belief" in a more standard
way. What term do you apply to what I'd call scientific belief - the
acceptance of something as true based on the available evidence?
The belief that the universe is understandable is clearly not superstition
(ie. there is no evidence against it). But I've yet to see any direct
evidence in favour of it - in fact, I can't think of what such evidence
might look like, so, provisionally, I'd have to put it in the "faith"
category.
RM> And Al doesn't sacrifice lambs either.
RH> 2,000 years ago he would have. He would do so today if his God
RH> required it.
RM> And 2,000 years ago you would have been completely ignorant of
RM> everything we are discussing here. How is that relevant?
RH> The latter part is relevant. Based on his belief, Al would sacrifice
RH> lambs if required to do so by his unfounded belief system.
That is your assumption.
Take care.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: truth
|Date: 18 Jan 97 17:50:00
EID:6f70 22328e40
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10 :343/108
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 2e1a87e1
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Al.
AS> I don't
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
AS> Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.
RM> Why not?
AS> Because it's 8 degrees out this morning, and the high will be 25.
No need for the blue paint, then, eh?
It was 42 below here this morning, but the high was almost 0.
It's great to be a northerner.
Take care.
... One planet... One people.... Please!
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Soo Ont. Canada 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:30:39
EID:1d66 22334bc0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2e232812
REPLY: 1:3603/210 21347756
Hello ROBERT!
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to MIMI MILSTEIN:
RC> Don't get your hopes up, Granny. I was just nibbling at the
RC> candy house you live in, not looking to be your successor.
RC> A curious little fit of hysteria. Are you feeling better,
RC> now?
RC> You already appear to be salivating. Or is that simply
RC> drool?
Another of your lasso-twirling failures, sonnyboy.
My goat can't be caught by your pickles.
... Greetings from Mimi :-)))
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:06:33
EID:e080 223248c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 feb86501
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da07
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
Gt> Remember how you were recently saying that Wild is a wife abuser?
JS> Never said it.
DC> Bull-fucking shit you didn't, you misogynistic bastard.
js> Evidence???
FR> See? You _are_ a Promisekeeper.
ijs> Evidence?
FR> Yep. Disgusting, aren't you?
Actually, if being disgusting is evidence of memebership, you must be
the president of the organization.
... ... A shot of reality never hurt anyone ³ÄÄÄIJþ²þ²þð=ÄÄÄÄ,
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:07:37
EID:e080 223248e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 5288dd91
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da08
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
ijs> Sir, for one who knows not the difference between 'insist'
ijs> and 'demand' you are really one to talk. How could two
ijs> brothers be so frigging different? David is a cool dude
ijs> and you...you are a pompous ass.
FR> You are a woman-hating homophobic bigot who never had a chance. Life
FR> didn't hand you the intelligence needed to escape Christianity and I
FR> can understand and pity you that. I won't pity you for your hatred
of
FR> homosexuals, women Jews and blacks, however. You don't deserve pity
FR> for that.
Where do you get off that I am any of those things?
... I wonder how many of you I could get before the police snipers drop
me!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:08:29
EID:8ecb 22324900
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 b0967bd7
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da09
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
FR> ijs > Hmmmm...wherein do you find hate in the
ijs> 7 promises of the Promise Keepers [tm]?
FR> Wherein do you find the inhuman tyrannies your death cult administered
FR> to uncountable millions down through the centuries?
I am not responsible for what other people do/have done.
FR> Wherein do you
FR> find your evil hatred of homosexuals, Jews, and women?
Wherein do you find any evidence to support this?
FR> The oppression of women remains the oppression of women reguardless
of
FR> all the pretend rhetoric of oppressing them for their own good, dear.
Good job of dancing around the question, Fred. Answer the question!
Where do you find hate in the 7 promises of the Promise Keepers?
... I will sing a dirge in your honor and wear your skin with pride.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Buttfuck Staal
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:10:56
EID:7988 22324940
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 7e01704c
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da0b
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
ijs> Where did Christ give this order?
FR> Go read the death cult mythologies, idiot -- and don't forget to read
FR> the pieces you've crossed out and tried to forget.
There are no 'death cult mythologies' that I know of.
FR> By the way: Have any evidence for this "Christ" construct of yours,
FR> buttfuck? Any at all?
Have any evidence to support your judgements of me in regard to being a
'buttf**k'?
... °°°°°°°°°°±±±²²²ÛÛÛÛÛ²²²±±±°°°°°°°°°°
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:12:25
EID:c59f 22324980
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 984590f5
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0792da0c
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
ijs> Hmmm...evidence? (that they are Christians and
ijs> that I am ignorant, a buttf**k or a bigot)
FR> Yes. They even hate most of the same groups you hate.
Hmmm...and what groups do _I_ hate?
FR> They're just
FR> as oppressive of women as you would like to be and they hate blacks
as
FR> much as your Lon S. Mabon personality does. They also fear Jews like
FR> some of your other personalities do.
I neither oppress women nor hate blacks. Neither do I fear Jews.
FR> Point at a Mormon brand Christian and pretend it's not Christianity
FR> and you had best start pretending you're not a death cultist as well.
I know nothing of 'death cult'...
FR> ~*~ Nutball scum of a feather flock together. - David Rice
FR> ---
FR> * Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them
FR> (1:218/890)
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:15:20
EID:1418 223249e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c5e960bf
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd59d
On (16 Jan 97) Glen Todd wrote to Jim Staal...
GT> Heilsa, Jim Staal!
GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Jim
GT> Staal whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Oops, Caught
GT> Again:
JS>> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS>> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
GT>> Blatantly self-serving, entirely unsupported, and completely
GT>> irrelevant.
JS> Only in the eyes of Pagan scum.
GT> I know lots of Pagans, but only a couple that would qualify as Pagan
GT> scum. I find that the percentages are a lot higher over on your
GT> side.
Pagan scum on my side?????
... Light bulbs don't emit light, they suck darkness ...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:18:29
EID:f35c 22324a40
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 7babdded
REPLY: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ddd774
On (16 Jan 97) Glen Todd wrote to Jim Staal...
GT> Heilsa, Jim Staal!
GT> Monday January 13 1997 20:55, Jim Staal wrote to Glen Todd:
KD>> The model for our creator should not exclude half of the human beings
KD>> on earth.
GT>> Any religion which excludes the Goddess is half atheistic.
JS> Evidence from the Bible (Holy scripture)?
GT> Neither relevant, meaningful, nor necessary, as that applies to only
GT> _one_ middle eastern religion.
That's one _world-wide_ religion...
... Feminism: The product of Incest gone Wrong.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:23:08
EID:9f91 22324ae0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 17275d85
On (15 Jan 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> ... Good news: it's "KILL JIM STAAL FOR JESUS" Week
>DR> here at HolySmoke!
JS> Oh, no-o-o-o-o-o! Not again!
DR> It seems to occur three or four times a year. I dunno.
DR> P.S. Your name is plastered on all of my boat's windows.
DR> It's damn anoying---- I'm thinking about replacing them
DR> just to get rid of the tiny, in-the-corner etched-in
DR> word. Sheeeish.
LOL! I could always send you a picture. :)
... Try to die strangely so your outline will look cool.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:24:15
EID:9094 22324b00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 a6607f14
On (15 Jan 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> By the way, the "first person" is nonsense: individuals
>DR> do not evolve---- populations do. The first humans were
>DR> a population of females and males.
JS> We agree. The first persons _were_ male and female.
DR> Your "English major" needs to be improved upon. The
DR> above should read "The first people were males and
DR> females."
Actually, the plural verb makes reference to 'persons', and as there
were only two, it makes perfect sense...
... If anyone says, here is Christ, believe it not.-Matt. 24:23
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:28:09
EID:8c37 22324b80
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 92bb2beb
On (15 Jan 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to David Rice <=-
>DR> I have a theory about this in general (not Mister Staal
>DR> particular), i.e. men who hate women.
JS> David, you wound me. I don't hate women. I respect and
JS> appreciate them in general, and the Lovely Wilbur [tm]
JS> in particular. As my temp career in retail winds to a
JS> close, I have learned much about the fairer sex, having
JS> worked with them on a daily basis (and learned from them
DR> Many messages from you in this forum seem to imply some
DR> animosity, frustration, and perhaps even rage at women.
Well, I have this natural human tendancy to respond in kind in this
forum, though I am doing somewhat better at not doing so.
JS> BTW, when does your seafaring experiment begin?
DR> Last September. :-) That's when I purchased the boat. I
DR> shove off in the first or second week of April, 1997CE.
Sounds cool. How long is the journey going to take?
... "Mommy, mommy! Where's Fluffy?" "Shut up and finish your casserole."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:30:02
EID:a5ed 22324bc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 bfa8cf1a
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def94b
On (16 Jan 97) Al Schroeder wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> I see. If not, then what? Why are you so bigoted against one segment
JS> of society, Rod?
AS> Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
AS> often complains about bigoted treatment towards gays, Rod would
AS> doubtless be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to
AS> another
AS> group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
AS> Excellent point, Jim.
JS> yeah, and Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> befriends them. Go figure...
AS> Good to know.
Good to have someone besides me recognize it. :)
... Why does one turn down the car radio when looking for an address?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: wilbursex#1
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:30:55
EID:b8c6 22324bc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 30de8205
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f60f
On (16 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
RC> Does Wilbur know about this?
JS> As a matter of fact, in the past, I (we, me and Wilbur) have
JS> done things the right honorable Brother Swaggart has probably
JS> never even thought about.
RC> Is this something you believe I really care to know?
You asked...
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: wilbersex#2
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:31:43
EID:7897 22324be0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2722d6f9
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2107f610
On (16 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY wrote to JIM STAAL...
JS> Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> befriends them. Go figure...
RC> These oblique references to your sexual experimentation are not
RC> necessary, you know.
RC> It's OK to keep them private.
I made no reference to joining them in sexual practice.
... Judge not according to appearance. - John 7:24
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 18 Jan 97 09:33:13
EID:d3ff 22324c20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 4665e09b
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 07908526
On (15 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to All...
GT> Do you really want everyone to start reposting all your old fiascos??
JS> I know of no 'old fiascos' and also, whatever turns your/their cranks.
FR> dan ceppa
dc> Send your entry right here.
dc> Any and all Stupid Staal Fiasco Messages will be saved. Comments
dc> on them will we tallied and the the one with the most votes
dc> will be declared the winner.
FR> Oh! Oh! Pick me! Pick me! I got some!
FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
FR> "I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem
FR> to particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart
FR> from God even further than do pagan men." - Jim Staal
FR> I must say you must live on a pink cloud to have let yourself been
FR> deluded by these women. Their general purpose here has been clear
FR> to me from the beginning: they hate men in general, and Christian
FR> men in particular. - Jim Staal (Promise Keeper) HolySmoke,
FR> December 1996
FR> ...there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
FR> would have mentioned it. - Jim Staal (he's serious, by the way)
FR> Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and filthy
FR> participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
Evidence to support this false claim?
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: BAR Letter to the editor
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:53:24
EID:2456 2232aea0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 283ab923
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e131ba
On (18 Jan 97) Brian Shreve babbled to Marilyn Burge...
BS> Well, I'm against it, but I sure aint got the power or the
BS> will to tell someone else not to do it...guess that makes it
BS> an oxymoron for some, being against something, yet being
BS> "it's your choice to make".
I think it is vital, given today's slant on religion, that we do a
bit of digging and find out what REALLY happened, as best we can.
The fundamentalists think that god really caused the walls of
Jerico to fall; archaeologists have found out that it was a plain,
old-fashioned earthquake that make them fall, with no god involved
at all. I really don't see what's so sacred about the bones of
somebody who died 6,000 years ago. I think we ought to be
creamating our dead for lack of real estate left to devote to the
kind of nonsense you're spouting, anyway. What's so sacred about a
bunch of old, long- dead bones, fer crying out loud? Isn't
enlightenment at least as important as what is, after all said a
done, a condemned house where nobody has lived for thousands of
years?
... How do girls get minks? - The same way minks get minks.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 18 Jan 97 21:57:27
EID:48e9 2232af20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 cb6b31ef
REPLY: 1:106/113.0 32e134ae
On (18 Jan 97) Brian Shreve babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> No, Robert. He was ragging on them about their daughter's
MB> weight, which is definitely something they have little (if
MB> any) control over.
BS> If this is fact, then it must be fact that homosexuality is
BS> not controllable either. If it's in the genes, it must be ok,
BS> and should not be a social stigma.
BS> BTW, & FWIW, I believe you're right, and believe I'm right
BS> about most cases of homosexuality is in the genes, and not a
BS> choice. (And nope, I'm not fat or gay or bisexual. I'm just a
BS> mental case.
I don't disagree with you at all about homosexuality. That's a
tagline that is meant to spoof those who bash gays; not a tagline
to be taken literally.
Go pick a fight with somebody whose posts you'vre read long enough
to know where they REALLY STAND.
... "Theological" is not.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:13:32
EID:26ce 2232b1a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8568993b
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dc3b34
On (14 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Mark Kimes...
AS> As Haldane said a long time ago, "If my mental processes are
AS> determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have
AS> no reason to suppose my beliefs are true...and hence Ihave no
AS> reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." Once
AS> you throw the process of making inferences in suspicion, any
AS> reasoning you use to try to prove its validity is itself a
AS> product of inferences.
AS> But, if there is something beyond Nature in our
AS> inferences..in the certainty from which we derive the
AS> knoweldge of "if A, then B"...then we may trust our reason.
AS> And ONLY then.
That's the biggest bunch of shit I've read in a looooooong long
time. Haldane wrote that before we had microscopes powerful enough
for us to see the atom; now we can see atoms. And, as a result, we
know that our brains are made of atoms. What Haldane had to take
on faith, we can actually SEE and VERIFY.
While some things scientists take as axiomatic cannot be seen,
they can be indirectly inferred. Those inferences are useful in
finding things they CAN see and VERIFY. There is no doubt that
some of the things that scientists take as axiomatic today will be
found to be false tomorrow. But, those inferences are all we've
got. For now. And they are serving us well in pushing us further
and further into the frontiers of knowledge. And, those frontiers
are showing us the way to the cure of more and more diseases,
smaller and smaller computers with more and more memory, and ever-
larger areas of discovery in the heavens above.
Scientists at least have the saving grace of admitting when they
are wrong, unstead of killing the messenger like those you so
blindly follow.
... Don't let your mind wander. It's too little to be let out alone.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Sy Hughes
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:31:20
EID:154c 2232b3e0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 f5aea0e5
REPLY: 2:440/303@fidonet 0708c6a1
On (14 Jan 97) Sy Hughes babbled to Tiger Eyes...
SH> While scalping some dumb white man, Tiger Eyes told
SH> David....
> TE>> I believe the Indians were the smarter of the two.
> DW> Ahhh... I see. That's why we were able to take all their shit, from
> DW> them.
> Well,... when a warfaring, earth raping, gold grubbing,
> gonorrhea-syphilis infected race comes to a land of friendly down-to-earth
> people, that sort of happens.
SH> Well stone me! I was always led to believe that the Amerindians were
a
SH> tribal warring nation!
The plains Indians were. They had to be to survive. On the other hand,
the coastal Indians were primarily hunters, gatherers, farmers, and
fishermen.
... CAUTION: Do Not Look Into Laser With Remaining Eye.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: oh wells
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:36:55
EID:8da6 2232b480
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 eb2d47d0
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0ee4c7
On (15 Jan 97) Curtis Johnson babbled to Judith Bandsma...
CJ> I must have done something wrong with my life. I usually have
CJ> the common fleeting recall of dreams, but I've never had a
CJ> test anxiety dream in my life.
Nor have I. I also have never had test anxiety while awake.
... I confess to an unatural, and abnormal act. I have programmed a computer.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: My sig line
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:33:44
EID:1700 22334420
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73f0dd68
REPLY: 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org 32df6c5d
On Jan 17 11:09 97, Tiger Eyes of 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org wrote:
TE> My conversation was with J.J., to begin with, not the rest of
TE> you. J.J. and I could of handled it on our own, thank you
TE> all very much.
I mentioned elsewhere that I would appologize, albeit in exchange
for the last word (an option I'm not planning on exercising). Let
this act as your appology.
In all honesty, I can't really say that I regret the exchange or
that I didn't enjoy it: because I do enjoy this sort of exchange
and this particular one did have it's high points.
However, my tactics and intentions are those of the pie-in-the-face,
not a rock-to-the-head. While I have no problem humiliating and
causing discomfort, it is not my intention to bring genuine pain or
grief.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Patriot
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:50:22
EID:f02e 22334640
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 73f0e9b3
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e14ea0
On Jan 18 17:28 97, Patriot of 1:270/420 wrote:
Jd>> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker
Jd>> with a car purchase?
P> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should
P> actually be the pilot. We should let Him take over, and
P> just enjoy the ride.
If I was the praying type, my prayer would be that you stay
the Hell away from all modes of transportation.
I wouldn't trust 'God' to co-pilot an escalator.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Allele Frequency Tripe!
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:07:10
EID:58d0 223348e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd2396
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 03-Jan-1997, "Allele frequency tripe.")
LA> Nice try John, but, as usual you failed miserable to
LA> document your claim or show that microevolution can be
LA> extrapolated to account for macroevolution!
JM> I don't need to document any claims I make since it is
JM> all public knowledge and can be looked up in any library.
JM> Practically everything I post is basic science that anyone
JM> can investigate.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
LA> The simple facts are that in 1995 we have Niles Eldredge
LA> writing a whole book on the major division in the
LA> evolutionary camp between the Ultradarwinians and the
LA> Naturalists. In other words between the "big Jumpers" and
LA> the "little jumpers"! The Inside front jacket summarises the
LA> matter as follows;
JM> Too bad you haven't read the book yet. Is that all that
JM> the latest edition of Creation ex nihlo quoted?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Wrong again as usual.
LA> "Scientific progress is often made by means of
LA> impassioned debates between rival points of view. In
That is very true, however those debates do not take place
between Creation Scientists and REAL scientists, just so we're
clear on that.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What a funny man you are Johnny boy!
LA> REINVENTING DARWIN Professor Niles Eldredge gives an
LA> eye-witness account of such a debate. On one side are the
...
LA> So which side are you on and why are you claiming victory
LA> when you have no victory to claim? Alternatively do you
LA> claim that both sides have the truth and you choose which
LA> side you are on, depending on what you are trying to
LA> refute?
JM> Laurie, that debate isn't even slightly related to the
JM> discussion at hand. WE are discussing what biological evolution
JM> indisputably IS, not what it means. Both "sides" of that
JM> debate are discussing things on a much grander scale.
Yes, they KNOW that evolution is a FACT don't they and
they would NEVER discuss or debate that would they?
Evolution does not stop happening just because evolutionists
are totally unable to agree on HOW is happens, does it. I
wonder why they are having so much trouble about HOW it
happened if it is REALLY happening all the time?
Don't forget to take your evolutionary doctor's
precriptions will you? If all else fails, don't forget;
1 - 800 - ABCDEFG
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Scientific Theories.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:08:02
EID:bb71 22334900
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd2405
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Scientific theories.")
RM> -=> Quoting Laurie Appleton to Shelby Sherman <=-
LA> It is not
LA> possibly to "FALSIFY" something that has been declared to be
LA> a FACT is it?
RM> Find that specimen, and you will have falsified it.
Get real Rick. There have been plenty found!
LA> Besides that evolutionists would simply talk
LA> about, "Reworked specimen", or a "stratigraphic leak" or "it
LA> fell in a crack" or simply a "tiny mystery" that will
LA> doubtless be "explained" eventually anyway!
RM> Before you start reading peoples minds and telling us
RM> what "evolutionists" would do when faced with such a
RM> specimen, shouldn't you try to find one first?
Like I said there have been plenty found and that is how
we know the evolutionists say about it.
The closest that I have seen an evolutionist come to
admitting something that they don't WANT to be true is Sir
Arthur Keith. In the 1925 edition of his book, "Antiquity of
Man", he gives the histories of several fossil of early HOMO
SAPIENS, although they do not appear in his later works. He
says;
"The story of the Calaveras skull, although grown
stale. . . cannot be passed over. It is the 'bogey'
which haunts the student of early man -- . . . taxing
the powers of belief of every expert almost to
breaking point. . .Indeed were such discoveries in
accordance with our expectations, if they were in
harmony with the theories we have found regarding the
date of man's evolution, no one would ever dream of
doubting them, much less of rejecting then." (p. 471
& 473)
"As the student of prehistoric man reads and
studies the records of the 'Castenodolo' find, a
feeling of incredulity rises within him. He cannot
reject the discovery as false without doing injury to
his sense of truth, and he cannot accept it without
shattering his accepted beliefs. It is clear that we
cannot pass Castenodolo by in silence: all modern
problems relating to the origin and antiquity of
modern man focus themselves round it." (p. 334)
It is obvious that your indoctrination via the media
and/or college has been complete to a point where you are
even arrogant and discourteous in spite of your ignorance.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:08:46
EID:5bf8 22334900
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd245e
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Fakes, Frauds and Scams.")
LA> However careful scientific studies of
LA> Australopithecines supposedly YOUNGER than LUCY have shown
LA> that these animals did NOT walk upright - at least NOT in
LA> the human manner.
RM> Care to quote us some such study?
"For over fifteen years a research team headed by
Lord Zuckerman studied the anatomical features of Man,
monkeys, apes, and the australopithecine fossils.
Practically all available important fossil fragments of
Australopithecus, along with anatomical specimens from
hundreds of monkeys, apes, and humans were compared. No one
has done a more thorough and careful study on the status of
Australopithecus than Lord Zuckerman."
(Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record, Duane T. Gish,
1985, page 150. Reference to S. Zuckerman, Journal Royal
College Surgeons Edinburgh 11:87 (1966) and S. Zuckerman,
BEYOND THE IVORY TOWER, Taplinger Pub. Co. New York, 1970,
pp. 75-94)
"Concerning the claim by Le Gros Clark and others that
Australopithecus should be classified as a genus of the
Hominidae (family of Man) rather than the as a genus of the
anthropoid apes, Lord Zuckerman said;"
"But I myself remain totally unpersuaded. Almost
always when I have tried to check the anatomical claims
on which the status of Australopithecus is based, I
have ended in failure".
(S. Zuckerman, "Beyond the Ivory Tower, 1970, p. 77. Ref:
Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record, Duane T.
Gish, 1985, page 150)
"Lord Zuckerman and Oxnard worked on fossils of
australopithecines that were supposedly two million years
younger, or more recent, than "Lucy" and the other Hadar
fossils of Johanson. Thus, if anything, the fossils studied
by Lord Zuckerman and Oxnard should be more "advanced,"
more man-like, than the creatures found by Johanson."
"Certainly, then, if Johanson's Hadar creatures walked
erect, the creatures studied by Lord Zuckerman and Oxnard
must have walked erect."
(Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record, Duane T. Gish,
1985, page 156.)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBs Bris Aus +61-7-38036821 V34 +Node 1 (3:640/238)
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Fakes, Frauds and Scams.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:09:28
EID:5bf8 22334920
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd24bb
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Fakes, Frauds and Scams.")
LA> When it is apparent that there was not even enough of the
LA> Pelvic bones found to determine whether Lucy/Lucifer was
LA> male or female then that has to be sheer guesswork anyway!
RM> Do you really think that the part of the pelvis that is
RM> used to determine sex is the hip joint?
Well have a look at the following, sent to me by a BBS
'friend'. It comes from a West Australian Newspaper. But I
understand that you will find something the same in SCIENCE
Vol. 270, 24 November 1995 (p. 1297)
=========================================================
Africa's Eve is found to be an Adam
By Graeme O'Neill
---
LUCY, the most celebrated of all hominid fossils, is actually a male,
scientists announced this week after 25 years of research.
Lucy's pelvic bones are far too small to accommodate a baby. And
their orientation would have made it impossible for a baby to turn the
corner from the uterus and line up with the home straight.
Even in modern women, this sharp angle between the uterus and birth
canal can make birth a tricky and painful affair.
"Lucy is simply not built for giving birth," said Swiss anatomists Dr
Martin Hausler and Dr Peter Schmid in the latest edition of the
Journal of Human Evolution.
It seems the African Eve, celebrated worldwide as the archetypal Dawn
Mother, is actually an Adam 3.2 million years old.
It is a quarter century since American scientist Donald Johansen and
his French colleague Maurice Taieb discovered the remarkably preserved
fossil skeleton in Ethiopia. It is of a small, short-legged hominid.
The fossil is the oldest species of the proto- human genus
Australopithecus- the finders named it Australopithecus afarensis and
nick- named it Lucy after the character in a Beatles' song, Lucy In
The Sky With Diamonds.
Lucy's skeleton was about two-thirds complete - against the odds, the
body was overlooked by scavenging hyenas and lions and was buried
rapidly by volcanic ash in the Great Rift Valley before the elements
could disperse the bones.
Even some of the tiny bones from the hands and fingers were preserved
but the right half of the pelvis was missing.
The left side of the pelvis and part of the sacroiliac, which anchors
the spinal column, was enough to tell anatomists that Lucy was no
recent fugitive from the rainforests of east Africa, which were in
retreat as the climate cooled and became drier.
The legs were short in proportion to the trunk and the pelvis was
relatively narrow. The femurs-the major bones in the top of the
legs- projected almost straight down from their pelvic sockets,
rather than angling in under the body's centre of gravity.
But they didn't splay outwards, in the manner of a chimpanzee or
gorilla.
The evidence was clear-Lucy-had walked upright. "Waddled" may be
closer to the mark - the pelvic anatomy was not designed for the
curving hips and fluid stride of latter- day great-granddaughters on a
Paris catwalk.
A widely published artist's impression of Lucy depicts the creature as
dark-skinned and hairy with a protruding, ape-like face, large breasts
(an evolutionary innovation in humans) and with a baby balanced on the
right hip.
But even for a prototype, whose architecture had yet to be refined and
broadened to create a birth canal large enough to accommodate one of
the boof-headed, large-brained babies of homo sapiens descendants,
Lucy's pelvis seemed to be strangely shaped.
For a quarter of a century anatomists have debated various mirror-
image reconstructions of Lucy's incomplete pelvis and come to
different conclusions.
The pelvis is one of the most critical structures in human evolution.
Not only is it crucial to an upright stance, as the fulcrum for the
spine and legs; its lower bones and pubis, dictate the maximum size
of the head and brain of any newborn baby.
An enormous brain and head, in relation to body size, is the defining
characteristic of modern human beings.
Earlier research which showed measurements of Lucy's pelvic dimensions
were unreliable because after millions of years the pelvis had become
skewed. In their new reconstruction, Dr Hausler and Dr Schmid
corrected for this distortion, then compared Lucy's pelvic
architecture with that of one of the more recent descendants, a
specimen of Australopithecus africanus from Sterkfontein Cave in South
Africa, designated by the serial number S14.
Lucy, designated by the serial number AL-288-I, is separated from S14
by almost the length of a continent and by several hundred thousand
years of evolution.
The interval was long enough for S14's species to develop the largest
brain of any australopithecine around 580cc, compared with Lucy's
350cc brain.
Dr Hausler and Dr Schmid say that in non-human primates, including
chimpanzees and gorillas, the brain of newborns is about 42 per cent
the capacity of the adult brain.
But in newborn humans, it is only 29 per cent of the average adult
capacity of about one litre-roughly 290cc. Much of the growth in a
modern human baby's brain is delayed until after birth. This is why
the bones in a human baby's skull remain open for several years after
birth.
This innovation, unique to humans, allows the adult human brain to
become very large without exposing homo sapiens babies to the fatal
prospect of being jammed inside the pelvis at birth. It still happens
before caesarean births, natural selection ensured neither mother nor
baby survived to pass on the trait.
The Swiss researchers now propose that Lucy be renamed Lucifer, after
the Roman god who brought light to the world after a long, dark night.
(O'Neill G., "Africa's Eve is found to be an Adam", Sunday Times:
Western Australia, 12 November 1995, p62)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Stephen Jones | ,--_|\ | sjones@iinet.net.au |
| 3 Hawker Ave | / Oz \ | sjones@odyssey.apana.org.au |
| Warwick 6024 |->*_,--\_/ | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sjones/ |
| Perth, Australia | v | phone +61 9 448 7439 |
----------------------------------------------------------------
RM> We have a choice to make here. Either you are stupid,
RM> or you are dishonest. Which is it, Laurie?
I have a better idea YOU are BOTH!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Special Pleading
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:11:26
EID:7268 22334960
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd25b5
Hi Rick,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Special Pleading.")
LA> Nothing ever "demonstrated" evolution and its
LA> subsiduary claims to be wrong!
RM> Are you sure you meant that? Have you joined our side?
Didn't you notice that I used inverted commas?
"Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described,
one which CANNOT BE REFUTED BY ANY POSSIBLE OBSERVATIONS.
Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is
thus "OUTSIDE OF EMPIRICAL SCIENCE" but not necessarily
false."
"NO ONE can think of ways in which to TEST it. Ideas,
either without basis or based on a few laboratory
experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems,
have attained currency FAR BEYOND THEIR VALIDITY. They have
become part of an evolutionary DOGMA accepted by MOST OF US
as part of our training." [BRAINWASHING L.A.]
(Paul Ehrlich (Professor of Biology, Stanford University)
and L.Charles Birch (Professor of Biology, University of
Sydney), "Evolutionary history and population biology".
Nature, vol.214, 22 April 1967, p.352.) (emphasis added)
LA> Don't you know that evolution
LA> is supposed to be a FACT - "Like apples falling from trees"!
RM> Don't you know that it IS a fact?
"The FACT of evolution is the backbone of biology, and
biology is thus in the PECULIAR position of being a science
founded on an UNPROVED theory -- is it then a science or a
FAITH? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly
parallel to belief in special creation -- both are concepts
which believers know to be true but neither, up to the
present, has been CAPABLE OF PROOF."
(L.Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to Darwin's The
Origin of Species, J.M.Dent & Sons Ltd, London, 1971, p. xi)
(emphasis added)
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Kelsey Bjarnason
|Sub: Scientific Theories.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:12:28
EID:5e51 22334980
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd263a
Hi Kelsey,
(Re: yours of 04-Jan-1997, "Scientific theories.")
SS> One human skull in the same geological strata as a
SS> dinosaur would falsify evolution, knucklehead.
LA> That would do NO such thing, of course. It is not
LA> possibly to "FALSIFY" something that has been declared to be
LA> a FACT is it?
KB> It wouldn't invalidate the process, but it would certainly
KB> invalidate many of the conclusions drawn from the apparent
KB> agreement between the theory and the evidence.
LA> Besides that evolutionists would simply talk
LA> about, "Reworked specimen", or a "stratigraphic leak" or "it
LA> fell in a crack" or simply a "tiny mystery" that will
LA> doubtless be "explained" eventually anyway!
KB> If it was shown to be a bad specimen, then it was a bad
KB> specimen, and means nothing. This is a problem for you?
SS> Now, tell me in your own words why evolutionary theory
SS> is not a valid scientific theory.
LA> Because it cannot be falsified.
KB> Excuse? Why not? Sure, you can't invalidate the process, but
KB> the theories?
The situation is so bad that even some evolutionists point
out that;
"Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described,
one which CANNOT BE REFUTED BY ANY POSSIBLE OBSERVATIONS.
Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is
thus "OUTSIDE of empirical science" but not necessarily
false."
"No one can think of ways in which to test it. Ideas,
either without basis or based on a few laboratory
experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems,
have attained currency far beyond their validity. They have
become part of an evolutionary DOGMA accepted by most of us
as part of our training."
(Paul Ehrlich (Professor of Biology, Stanford University)
and L.Charles Birch (Professor of Biology, University of
Sydney), "Evolutionary history and population biology".
Nature, vol.214, 22 April 1967, p.352.)(my emphasis)
When even evolutionists have the courage to say such
things then things must be in a sorry state indeed.
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musslewhite
|Sub: Scientific facts (c).
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:13:30
EID:4afb 223349a0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd26bc
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Scientific Facts (c).")
JM> On 27 Dec 96, Laurie Appleton penned the following to Rick Mcfarlane
RM> Was I trying to establish that some specific organism
RM> in the Cambrian was descended from some specific organism in
RM> the Precambrian? No I was not.
JM> It matters little if he was, since that information
JM> has been specifically established. See S.J. Gould's
JM> "Wonderful Life", page 208. There is enough scientific
JM> information in that one book to make any statement you may
JM> make on the subject seem like a tiny tot repeating "is not!
JM> is not!" over and over ad nauseum.
Obviously your copy is page numbered differently from
mine. Gould's whole thesis here is that the conventional
evolutionary theory was all wrong and instead of a "cone of
increasing diversity" the evidence is just the opposite,
more like a Christmas tree.
Gould continues this theme again on (my) p. 208 where he
writes;
"One would hardly have anticipated after all this study,
that the total anatomical range of the group could have been
far broader in its early days."
Earlier he had written;
"I know no greater challenge to the iconography of the
cone-and hence no more important case for a fundamentally
revised view of life-than the radical reconstructions of
Burgess anatomy presented by Whittington and his colleagues.
They have literally followed our most venerable metaphor for
revolution: they have turned the traditional interpretation
on its head."
"By recognizing so many unique anatomies in the
Burgess, and by showing that familiar groups were then
experimenting with designs so far beyond the modern range,
they have inverted the cone. The sweep of anatomical
variety reached a maximum right after the initial
diversification of multicellular animals. The later history
of life proceeded by elimination, not expansion."
"The current earth may hold more species than ever
before, but most are iterations upon a few basic anatomical
designs. (Taxonomists have described more than a half
million species of beetles, but nearly all are minimally
altered Xeroxes of a single ground plan.) In fact, the
probable increase in number of species through time merely
underscores the puzzle and paradox. Compared with the
Burgess seas, today's oceans contain many more species based
upon many fewer anatomical plans."
(Gould S.J., "Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the
Nature of History", Penguin: London, 1991, p46-47).
In fact it is more like creation theory than anything
else. Where we start with everything and slowly but surely
lose basic kinds one by one by extinction.
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Scientific facts (c)1.
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:14:18
EID:6057 223349c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 88cd2726
Hi John,
(Re: yours of 05-Jan-1997, "Scientific Facts (c).")
LA> I accept your admission that you are totally unable to
LA> identify any Cambrian fossil as a descendant of any
LA> Precambrian fossil! In other words you are just ASSUMING
JM> The precambrian and soft-bodied Naraoia is an ancestor of
JM> the trilobite.
I would like to see you quote where GOULD says that? He
says that the Burgess shale is this side of the Cambrian
Explosion!
The February 1984 issue of Natural History magazine contaions
a long article by Dr. Gould on the Ediacaran formation in
Australia. He contends in it that every animal in that
formation shares a basic mode of organization quite distinct
from the architecture of living groups as well as from the
Cambrian creatures. He said that the Cambrian creatures
represent the complete replacement of Ediacaran forms after
a mass extinction, not simply an improvement, so the Ediacaran
animals could not have been the ancestors of the Cambrian
creatures.
(Darwin's Enigma, Fossils and Other Problems, Luther D.
underland, 1988, p.47).
So much then for your claims of any precambrian animal
being an ancestor of Cambrian animals! In fact all animals
were distinct from the start and no different species is
ancestor to any other, despite the many different varieties
that can be bred from a basic kind like DOGS, pigeons,
cattle and most other kinds.
Gould is dimly starting to fight his way out of the fog of
his own brainwashing or "beguiling" as he calls it, but as
even he says "beguiling is for life" and perhaps he will
never fully de-program himself.
Gould [himself] said that he had been BEGUILED as a
graduate student in the mid-1960s with the notion that, by
studying that processes governing populations of Drosophila
fruit flies in bottle, you could explain everything that
occurred over millions of years in evolution and that slow,
gradual sequential substitution of genes within local
populations, all leading to adaptations, is the essence of
the evolutionary process at all levels.
He said that he had since watched the modern synthesis
gradually come apart. If Ernst Mayr's characterization of it
were accurate, "then the theory as a general proposition is
no longer adequate to explain evolution in spite of its
persistence in textbook orthodoxy."
(At a conference at Hobart College on 14 February 1980, to
honor Mary Leakey, as stated in; Darwin's Enigma, Fossils
and Other Problems, Luther D. Sunderland, 1988, p.105).
(emphasis added)
Laurie
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Off the ropes
|Date: 19 Jan 97 11:47:52
EID:8064 22335de0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2e2531a0
Hello Marty!
Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Andrew Masten:
AM> Rome was technologically advanced in its time also. But, when
AM> its moral fiber collasped, so did the empire.
ML> Truth be told (here's something refreshing for you, Drew),
ML> it was probably lead poisoning that lead to the maladies of Rome.
Are you referring to lead used in water pipes, Marty - or to the
custom of redwine with a dash of lead as a taste improver?
Both theories have been presented, but I don't know how valid
they are. One tends to think the more wealthy classes would have
been most affected, in either case, and that the ordinary poor
salt-of-the-earth stock would have had little access to wine
and piped-in water.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:32:57
EID:5f7a 2232b400
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e15073
REPLY: 1:123/67 32e12dfa
PID: GED3 2.5
18 Jan 97 20:09, Shelby Sherman wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> My quarrel is with your mother and that goofy fuck she calls a
DW>> husband - not with any of you.
SS> Details, please.
The details of my quarrel with the goofy Coloradans, or just the recent
shit? :)
Most recently, either Gwen or Glen mentioned that their 13 year old daughter
was 6' tall and weighed 230 pounds. I simply pointed out the obvious. All
hell broke loose. Gwen called me a small-dicked misogynist. Marilyn Burge
called me evil.
I've had a great deal of fun.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 19 Jan 97 03:48:25
EID:ee86 22331e00
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32e199c0
REPLY: 2:2501/217@fidonet.org ca663054
PID: GED3 2.5
14 Jan 97 18:59, Norman Solomon wrote to All:
NS> Norman Solomon - InterNet E-Mail - solomonn@usa.net
.....................................................^^^
NS> - Fido NetMail - (2:2501/217)
.............................................^
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: HomeSchool
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:30:01
EID:5535 22333bc0
MSGID: 1:123/67 32e1ce1c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e15073
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
18 Jan 97 22:32, quoting David Worrell to Shelby Sherman:
DW> The details of my quarrel with the goofy Coloradans, or just the
DW> recent shit? :)
DW> Most recently, either Gwen or Glen mentioned that their 13 year old
DW> daughter was 6' tall and weighed 230 pounds. I simply pointed out the
DW> obvious.
Did they send you a "nekkid" gif of the svelte little nymph?
DW> All hell broke loose. Gwen called me a small-dicked
DW> misogynist.
So? What's the problem?
DW> Marilyn Burge called me evil.
You are the very embodiment of evil. I'm proud of you.
DW> I've had a great deal of fun.
That is the sole purpose of these echos. If you really want to have
fun, let me send you ANIMAL_RIGHTS. It's a fucking hoot.
--- GodEdit 0.00
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop (1:123/67)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:00:07
EID:50c1 2232b800
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e155f7
-> On 17 Jan 97 11:23:27, ROBERT CURRY got back to AL SCHROEDER
AS>>> Communication; the Bible; think about it.
GT>> Oxymoron.
One of the oxymorons that Al forgot about.
GT> Okay, I'll grant you that it communicates a message.
GT> So does 'Beavis and Butthead'.
AS> Touche!
RC> Shall we combine the two? "Beavis and Biblehead" anyone?
Why? Someone will just make it into a tagline.
... Hey, everyone! It's "Beavis and Biblehead"!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:03:34
EID:d90e 2232b860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e156c6
-> On 17 Jan 97 15:50:02, Glen Todd got back to Al Schroeder
DC>> As it stands, 1/2 of the world is given secondary class recognition
DC>> by the religion you hold.
GT> It's a good deal more than half, Dan -- and growing.
So, just how many more females are born as compared to males?
I knew it was a couple of percentage points. Has that increased?
... "A graceful taunt is worth a thousand insults." - Louis Nizer
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: More grist from the web [2]
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:31:20
EID:1aa5 2232bbe0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e15d48
-> On 17 Jan 97 05:48:44, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> "Here: Eat this jelly doughnut or I'll kill you."
AS> other leads you to a sheer dropoff and you will die, horribly, falling
AS> twenty stories. "Your choice."
DC> Not the same, Al. Not even close to being the same.
AS> Well, it's the way I tend to look at it.
Then, I do truly feel sorry for you.
You think you have a choice and think you are making the correct
choice. By your belief system and out look on it, you have
neither.
... Would you punish your kids for eternity?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:37:24
EID:d5eb 2232bca0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e15eb4
-> On 17 Jan 97 15:59:16, Glen Todd got back to Dan Ceppa
GtP>> I think we can claim a win in this flame war. The only person who
DC> You can claim anything that you want. Simply provide the evidence.
GT> Hey, the thumpers never provide any evidence supporting their claims.
GT> Why should we have to?
You do realize where that 'logic' you just stated places you?
Have nice day. Bulls-eyes that big don't come come around
all that often.
... "Reality is totally unaffected by your strongest belief" - M. Burge
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Trolling for Jesse!
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:52:22
EID:6142 2232be80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e16236
-> On 17 Jan 97 11:23:28, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> A buck to the first post that elicits a response from
DC> Jesse Jones.
RC> Make it ten, and I'll be happy to collect.
It would be for such a worthy cause, too. (Who was it that
said atheists do not good works?)
DC> ... "Ciya is a blasphemous tool of your cunning."
DC> - Jesse Jones, 9/23/93
RC> One among many in my unholy tool box. This one I really must credit
RC> to my goddaughter, though.
And, Ciya's evil twin sister, Ciya. Can't forget her!
Next time you see your godchild, give her a hug from me and
make sure that you include a very hearty laugh of appreciation
at her insight and humor. (Damn, I think that that may count
as another good deed. What will Jeese do?)
... So far back in the hills, even the Episcopalians handle snakes.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:43:56
EID:1c3c 22336560
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e2170c
-> On 17 Jan 97 08:20:13, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> However, it makes more sense to me to actually add all of the
DC> zeros. Not correct, mathematically, but it does take care
DC> of those "minute" holes that are left there when you don't.
RC> Consider for example the set of rationals. The set is "dense"
RC> (which means that no matter which two elements of it you choose,
OK, that's probably a better way of looking at it.
DC> Without my way of 'adding zeroes', calculus cannot be exact.
RC> Well, calculus doesn't really "add zeros." Limiting processes are
RC> used instead.
That is true. However, I'm used the the approximations where the
initial examples are under the curve. This was then followed by
aseries of examples with narrower rectangles, getting a closer
fit each time.
What's making more sense to me now is that the "dense" numbers
are those same rectangles with small triangles at the top. After
all, it works exactly for a linear curve and helps me visualize
how the result works.
... HEINLEINEKEN - The Strange Beer in a Strange Can.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: feed
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:47:13
EID:c4b4 223365e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e217d1
-> On 17 Jan 97 04:51:03, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> there's a category of souffle's that are supposed to fall!
DC> I just rename it, like any good cook would do with a tastey
DC> dish. And, if it isn't tastey, _then_ I blame it on the
DC> metal manufacturing plant!
AS> Ah, a built in scapegoat! That works!
Yes, but only on Thursdays, as that's they day they set off the
really big charges.
... "Give me spam or give me death." - Jim Bodle
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: I'll be back...
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:49:39
EID:7511 22336620
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e21863
-> On 17 Jan 97 05:30:42, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> a couple of years back that may be interested again. She's
DC> a red-head!
AS> Hmmm. Handle with care...
Oh, I intend to!
DC> sorta reminds me of what a good looking blonde Leprachaun should
DC> look like. :)
AS> Hmmm. Sounds like a Wendy Pini drawing (the lady who draws ELFQUEST,
AS> a reasonably good independent comic.)
Not that you mention it, I do think that you are right! Never got
into those comics, but I have seen them and her art work. Not,
to catch that leprachaun and get my three wishes...
... Large purple dinosaur, blown up = Barney Rubble.
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: perfection...not
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:10:13
EID:4401 22326140
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e58ee9
REPLY: 1:261/1137 2f0ee362
CJ>>> Perfection is not measured against an Absolute.
CJ>>> Instead, each individual entity/thing is
CJ>>> itself--perfectly--by definition.
MG>> I have no problem with theology, as long as it isn't pushed
MG>> on me. I consider any sort of god worship to be silly. The
MG>> Bhuddists I see have their apologetics for the perfection of
MG>> god.
CJ> "God" is not a Buddhist concept; indeed, in the 4-5 books
CJ> about Zen that I've read, "God" or "gods" was not mentioned at
CJ> all. Divinities are allowed, but are completely unnecessary--in
CJ> fact, I understand that all strains of Buddhist thought are
This is all dancing around the question. The question is "IS there a perfect
god" God by definition is perfect. Therefore, deists must tapdance their
way around aobvious imperfections int he universe.
Call it gods, call it deity, call it diviniity. You do not measure an aboslute
such as perfection against something just for the sake of definition. You
define perfection and then stack your entity up to it.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 12:18:47
EID:eaf4 22326240
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e5a263
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32dbc6a6
DM> Steven Spielberg, Kate Capshaw, Harry Anderson, Richard
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM> peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM> forward the information to her.
Kate Capshaw cna peep in my windows any day she likes.
This is a serious pranoic disturbance. The man needs help. You may read
the papers one day and see where he offed someone for peeping in his window.
But we musn't violate his civil rights by putting him away, should we?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Brett Johnson
|Sub: Re: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:08:43
EID:6c86 22326900
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e614dd
REPLY: 1:221/203 1fff4049
BJ> What a miracle is, in regards to belief, is a confirmation of the
BJ> truth that is associated to it. In other words, it's a
BJ> proof. When the Lord taught He had power to forgive sins
What a miracle really is, in regards to reality, is cirucmvention of natural
law.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:10:56
EID:9f19 22326940
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e61b37
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dd86c3
MK>> couldn't actually die, of course. Good thing that's not
MK>> part of your mythology.
MK>> Uh ... oops.
AS> Oops indeed. For the whole point is Jesus DID die, Hector mine.
AS> If He didn't actually die, the whole point is lost. All the
AS> pain and agony of any other whipped, crucified prisoner was
AS> His.
Oops indeed. what have we heard from you when asked about dead men walking.
You reply that the spirit lives and the physical died.
Face it Al. Your god is immortal. Hecotr wins.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:12:36
EID:c18a 22326980
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e62282
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dd86c6
MK>> Nice story, Al. But let's do some observation of our own,
MK>> shall we? Do we see the lame, cripped [sic], blind and sick
MK>> actually being healed? Why, no, we don't, do we?
AS> We don't? Then when someone gets sick, they stay sick forever?
AS> Yes,
AS> it's the body's defenses...which would never have evolved that
AS> way if the constants hadn't been JUST so...
We certainly don't see them cured by miracles such as the touch of some
messiah or other. What about those that don't get cured? what about those
that live through a serious illness only to be scarred by it? What about
te drugs that we devepoped that would kill off a bacterial infection easily
which would otherwise kill.
Face it. medical health is a matter of biology and not divine intervention.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 18 Jan 97 13:18:18
EID:0971 22326a40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e62e75
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32dd86d6
MK>> Alas, Al, you have never been able to reconcile omnipotent,
MK>> omniscient gods with free will to the satisfaction of anyone
MK>> -- not even yourself. You're again merely repeating your
MK>> claims.
AS> "My" claims? The claims of a good many Christians, from
AS> Augustine to Aquinas to Chesterton to Lewis...as well as the
AS> official postion of the Catholic Church.
AS> And of course, you can't justify free will otherwise. You
AS> would be instead solely the product of your enviornment and
AS> your genetics, and have no more free will than a computer
AS> program.
Free will exists. There is no doubt. No one will argue that with you.
but you are claiming that it is a god given free will. It can't be. Your
god lets too much shit go down in the name of free will.
Remember, that this is a god we are talking about and not one of us. A
god would keep preschoolers from finding guns left out by their druggie
parents and killing themselves.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: *CR* Cat Poop Cookies
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:09:25
EID:149a 22329120
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e8d5fb
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32de30c3
DC> You haven't lived (died?) until you've had a meal at my ex MiL's
DC> house. Her idea of gravy is some thickening and six cups of
DC> pure lard.
Hey! Put some of that on some biscuits and you could build a house.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Trolling for Jesse!
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:11:28
EID:7e72 22329160
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e8da8c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32de3725
DC> A buck to the first post that elicits a response from
DC> Jesse Jones.
You want to split a dollar?
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sq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: so...now what?
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:20:31
EID:1f84 22329280
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e8f130
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32de81fd
LW> Gee, Dan. You've done everything except tell us how the
LW> experiment is relevant to the theory presented.
LW> It's about time to take care of that little detail, don't you
LW> think?
YAWN.....it has been explained to you many times. To admit that the experiment
is a test for reality, you would have a tough time jumping and landing on
your god.
This is why you continue to come up with this tired and untrue line.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:39:08
EID:f079 223294e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e91c04
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32deeb88
DW> Fuckin' hilarious, unless you're one of the schmucks that gets
DW> taken in by it. :)
Funny thing is that some of them would likely find the hidden files sooner
or later and trash them. either that or use it enough for the files to
eat their disk space.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Christians at Work
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:45:19
EID:ac9e 223295a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e92a53
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32de7beb
DM> Well, after a longish period of quiet, we've had two
DM> bombs at an abortion clinic in Atlanta this morning: anyone
DM> care to take the bet that the perp, if caught, will turn out
DM> to be a Real, True Christian?
I'm certain that if they are, all the other Real True Christians will tell
us that the bombers are not Real True Christians.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:57:56
EID:7604 22329720
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 73e946d4
ML> "Next on page 1024, 'the Exploded Cat'".)
Sounds OK to me. do they do rabbits?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: in passing
|Date: 19 Jan 97 12:52:18
EID:6e05 22336680
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e21902
-> On 17 Jan 97 05:38:33, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
AS> Yep. One wonders what will happen when we get advanced enough to make
AS> major changes in the cosmos. Given the lousy way we've treated the
Now, that's a scarey thought!
AS> planet, we shudder to think. James Watt in charge of galaxy and quasar
AS> disposal.
I think we should put him in charge of investigating black holes,
from the inside out.
... "Don't take life serious, it ain't noways permanent." -Pogo
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:04:01
EID:d5eb 22336880
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e21bc1
-> On 17 Jan 97 15:02:08, Glen Todd got back to Dan Ceppa
TE>> Why should I? I never said that they did invent the wheel.
DC> However, the invention of the wheel is what is viewed as making a
DC> large advancement in civilization. Where is the invention of the
GT> So viewed by the same people, interestingly, that view the Christian
GT> Bible as an advancement in civilization, and look at the unmitigated
And, where did I mention that xianity is an advancement in
civilization?
GT> bothered to look, you'd notice that only a fairly small percentage of
GT> Native American Indians lived in terrain where the wheel would have
GT> been of significant use, unlike the denizens of the classical world.
I'm sure that the wheel was a great asset in the Appeninees, Pyrenees,
Alps, Black Forest, Rhine river, etc.
GT> In addition, the relatively low population density and their nomadic
GT> lifestyle made large road-building projects a la the Roman ImperiaL
That is part of the problem. I believe that early on in their
cultures, only the the five tribes of the Iriquois built an
alliance that had any where that potential in North America.
GT> Highway system quite impractical. Beasts of burden - first dogs,
GT> then thanks to the Spaniards, horses -- worked much better. Don't
You forgot the primary beast of burden for the American Indians. Why
is that?
GT> make the fundy mistake of ASSuming something is "more civilized" just
GT> because it looks more like what YOU'RE used to.
The wheel is more culturally advanced. It allows travel on
roads other than just to Rome, but to more mechanical inventions.
Technology depends on the wheel. The Indians never had it.
... "Bother!" said Pooh, as the demon possessed Piglet.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Where do they do it?
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:15:37
EID:b99c 223369e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e21e79
-> On 17 Jan 97 14:55:56, Glen Todd got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> perverts? And, just why does the church protect those scumballs?
GT> Their church _manufactures_ them by the seminary-load with the
GT> ignorant, twisted, psychotic bullshit about sex and the human body
GT> that they spew in the name of their god's alleged love. Then they
Well, I really should have known that. I knew a guy that went to
a seminary.
It was through my girlfriends brother. (They were Jewish) Anyhow,
the seminarian returns from school and seriously reports that
his fellow students seriously believed that Jews had tails and
wore yalmulkes in order to hide the horns on their heads.
GT> leave for fear of the consequences of their actions. So they stay,
GT> they preach, and the church turns out more just like them. Even one
That's it, pretty much across the board with that cult. Try
reading _The Mind of the Believer_ for more on their psychological
profile.
... Paul/Saul was a liar, he said so. (Romans 3:7.) - Simon Ewins
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 19 Jan 97 13:19:22
EID:16fa 22336a60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32e21f5a
-> On 15 Jan 97 21:31:47, Sue Alexander got back to Lee Woofenden
SA> interpretations an individual puts on their NDE? This culture is
SA> generally one that believes in God, and almost everyone (hey, there
SA> may be someone in the Ozarks that hasn't) has heard mention of God and
SA> probably some interpretations of His appearance.
There's a study similar to that on UFO's and the description
of aliens. It almost seems as if the interpretation of a
close encounter has similar discriptions to the NDE's.
SA> Hey...if individuals have seen God, why is there not a more
SA> consistent definition of the appearance of God?
Abraham gave a good description of his god mooning him!
... BTW, late breaking news: JFK is still dead.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 19 Jan 97 06:07:12
EID:c0fe 223330e0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 8a64e573
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 73c0ab2b
On (15 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MG> I'll catch shit for this, I know, but I seldom have found a
MG> profession so totally devoid of original thought as nursing.
MG> Nursing requires knowledge and a prescried set of rules...but
MG> original thought is right out. Those nurses who have an ounce
MG> of intelligence move on to do other things including being
MG> managers and the like. If you only knew some of the stupid
MG> questions I've had over the years from these people.
Yes, I know. When I was pregnant with Louie, I had a nurse tell me
that being RhNeg was no problem; it was the RhPos pregnant women
who had to worry about their babies being all right. I immediately
told the doctor who said something like, "what difference does it
make what she told you, since you obviously know the truth and
told me that you were neg anyway?" I then pointed out to him that
the next pregnant woman to come in here might not be so
bull-headed, and very well might believe her, to the detriment of
her unborn child."
RN's have traditionally been glorified scrub women. Why a man
would want to join the profession is beyond me. Or, come to think
about it, what a woman would want to join the profession is ALSO
beyond me.
... All opinions expressed herein are currently under revision
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: idle
|Date: 19 Jan 97 06:49:31
EID:f97e 22333620
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 cbdd0e2e
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 9aab1beb
On (15 Jan 97) Ed Mills babbled to ALL...
EM> Hmmm.
EM> Holysmoke appears to have become a very target-poor
EM> environment of late.
EM> Shouldst I go forth and recruit us some game to pot at?
EM> The keyboard twitcheth mightily with carnal yearnings for the
EM> accustomed daily fundy predation. But yea, there are none,
EM> save the feeble and sickly. The sanctimonious Wiens, the
EM> grandiose yet ludicrous Prewett, the unbelievably prolific
EM> Appletonian Plagiarist, the tender, pubescent buttpimple
EM> satanists Abaddon and Ravenwood, they are all no more to be
EM> seen.
EM> O god of atheism, I beseech thee:
EM> Send more paramedics!
EM> edweird
You could have solved the problem by getting saved while you were
gone, ya know.
... I'm not lazy, I'm doing research on inertia...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Legislating Morality
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:25:48
EID:68e1 22333b20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 cc820067
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32d8c46e
On (12 Jan 97) Rod Swift babbled to Grayhawk...
RS> The bill the Republicans passed, and Clinton signed, breaches
RS> that constitutionally-enforced full-faith-and-credit requirement
RS> upon the states.
And, is clearly unconstitutional because it attempts to nullify
a portion of the U.S. Constitution.
... If you ain't Moslem, you ain't Shiite.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ALL
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 19 Jan 97 07:27:05
EID:e31a 22333b60
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 27c79880
Is anybody else as bored with Quantum Deities and the "constants"
as I am?
We definitely need a new batch of fundies. Maybe we can talk
Edweird into another month haitus and a return as a saved
Christer.
... If Jesus were born today, He'd surely refuse to become a Christian
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 19 Jan 97 08:48:12
EID:aaa0 22334600
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 dcdb8ec9
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32def93f
On (16 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Rob Burcham...
RB> Doesn't that describe Christianity to a T, Al? "The salvation
RB> of all mankind depended on the raping of a little girl." If
RB> not for God's 'encounter' with Mary; no Jesus, no salvation.
RB> "Our father who art in heaven, thank you Lord for raping Mary."
AS> Hmmm. That she gave a HYMN OF PRAISE to God afterwards for?
AS> There was no violence. Nor is there ANY indication that such was
AS> displeasing to her, EVEN THOUGH it almost caused her fiance to
AS> quietly divorce her. She didn't even have the slightest idea she was
AS> pregnant. She had "never known a man"--i.e., never experienced sex.
AS> Must be a whole new definition of "rape".
It's a fitting definition. We have a State Supreme Court Judge
who's in danger of losing his post for much the same thing. He
had an affair with an aide. The Court is now considering whether
there was an excessive lack of balance of power between them as
to make the affair coercive and not really consensual. I think
that what your god did to Mary was the epitome of just such a
situation.
... STATESMAN: n. A dead politician. We need more statesman.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: December 25
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:01:23
EID:6b13 22329020
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1475aab2
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d8acaf
12 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Gwenny the Pooh to David Worrell:
Gt> That about sums it up. This isn't for your benefit, necessarily.
Gt> Just to show the others that I have nothing to hide. There is nothing
Gt> to hide. My life has, is, and will be an open book. Secrets are for
Gt> the maladjusted.
I tend to concur. The universe is chock-full of real and
worthwhile mysteries. People who cultivate a pretense of
unfathomable depth and intrigue are a waste of time. And
they usually think I'm a rude motherfucker, which, as it
relates to them, is an accurate assessment.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:08:59
EID:712c 22329100
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 d2559b61
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32d8b359
12 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Gwenny the Pooh to Steve Hayes:
Gt> Eeeyuuuu! I hate sorghum. Bleck, bleck!
All that proves is that you are in possession of normal
tastebuds.
Sorghum is actually a mixture of meconium and corn syrup.
Mostly meconium.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Sex as public service
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:37:43
EID:0106 223294a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 019e0546
11 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Karen Davis to Jan deBoer:
KD> I don't care what "nature designed" - 17 year olds are not all ready
KD> for the commitment sex can force on them. Waiting is better than doing
KD> something too early. And "peaking" does not mean that the rest of the
KD> life is sexless, Jan, nor does peaking create an inherent right to
KD> sex.
Sex only forces a commitment on someone if they don't take
the necessary measures to cause knock-uppage. The "til death
do-us-part" monogamy myth does a hell of a lot more harm to kids
than premature sex does, IMHO.
KD> Babies don't necessarily use their teeth until they have a full set
or
KD> enough to use them. I advocate teenagers abstain from sex until they
KD> are ready, in the same way.
I advocate teenagers abstain from "committed" relationships until
they know whether or not they are the kind of person who believes
in such things.
edweird
... "There is no Tall Dark Man." - Quentin Crisp
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: CHEESE WHIZ ON TOAST
|Date: 18 Jan 97 18:40:05
EID:b507 22329500
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 6acefe7b
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32d8d150
12 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Becke Boyer:
DC> ... If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn?
Snatched. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Domino
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 18 Jan 97 19:14:42
EID:873d 223299c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7192d87e
REPLY: 1:123/531.0 2da56fa0
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Domino to David Worrell:
D > David, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
D > Do>> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
D > DC>> It may pay lip service to that concept. However, any free
D > DC>> will is oveshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised
D > DC>> threats.
D> Actually, it never says you *can't*. It says what will happen if you
D> *do*. You still have free will.
DW> Ever hear of the word "extortion?"
D > Threats are still not definites. Yeah, the warnings of damnation and
D > such could be called threats; but you dont *have* to go with a threat.
D > You still have free will.
It is repeatedly stated in the Xtian program that, unless you
subscribe to the tenets contained therein, you will suffer
eternal damnation. One might say that this is not a threat;
one might then be advised to give the Emperor a critique of
his outfit, while one is at it.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:43:55
EID:eaf2 2232b560
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 4896718c
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 73a881fd
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from J.J. Hitt to Roger Hunter:
JH> My current set up is based on a machine I paid 20 dollars for
JH> (though it has been fortified somewhat with some junk I had around
JH> the house). It's part Dell, part IBM, part Hyundai, part junkyard
JH> dog.
Oh, I can relate to that. I had never touched a computer in my
life up until about 1.5 yrs. ago. I pulled the disemboweled
remains of a Leading Edge XT from underneath a wet, rotten carpet
remnant someone had dumped by the roadside. That thing evolved
into the 486DX50 I stuck together from subsequent dumpster-dives.
I have less than 200$ in my whole pile and can surf the internet,
albeit at a very sedate pace.
JH> Now, if you should ever run into a web page that is actually worth
JH> paying a thousand dollars to see; I'll gladly go out and buy a
JH> brand new machine, but until then I'm content keeping the money
JH> in my pocket.
Well, if you ever do, get on AOL. It's a wonderful service; very
fast, reliable and never a busy signal or dropped carrier.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Ha.
edweird
... "Hey! This stuff's pyrophori***PHOOSH!!!***
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 18 Jan 97 22:55:12
EID:1bb6 2232b6e0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 77791650
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32da3657
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Tiger Eyes:
DC> ... In the brain of every religious person there is a god shaped
I sure seem to be snatching a lot of your taglines lately.
Did you have a recent windfall somewhere..?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Brawley's Bait Shop
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:11:24
EID:3d52 2232b960
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7dbb46f3
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 ce0b3385
13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from John Brawley to Rod Swift:
RS> John Brawley's Quantum BSE-infected Butcher Shop :)
JB> Define "BSE," please?
Bovine something-or-other encephalopathy (mad cow disease).
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: The Fickle Finger
|Date: 18 Jan 97 23:27:04
EID:358f 2232bb60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9d9a6dce
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32db481d
14 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Gwenny the Pooh to Rod Swift:
RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
Gt> The usual prize I would offer seems a little inappropriate in your
Gt> case.
GEORGE! WAKE UP!
George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.
Please talk to me.
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE??????
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 19 Jan 97 09:46:36
EID:ec42 22334dc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 36eff2dd
REPLY: 1:3603/210 1f7781f9
On (14 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to MARILYN BURGE...
RC> with: Al Schroeder
AS> Prayer isn't sorcery, Marilyn. It's a request.
MB> The scripture doesn't say "ask and I'll answer," it says
MB> ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! There is no room for refusal
MB> in that statement.
RC> Even Al has better sense than to believe what the bible says!
Oh? Are you sure?
... He is no lawyer who cannot take two sides.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:07a3 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9ef75fa9
FR>LB> Kat, I'm starting to think Ron darling doesn't TRUST us....
FR>kw> So? All the more brownies for the rest of us. He does, however,
FR>kw> seem to have caught onto the fact that the Holysmoke Harpies are
much
FR>kw> easier to handle when well placated with good chocolate.
FR>I'm going to have to add that note to the HolySmoke Convention notes.
}:-}
You are a wise man. ;)
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * That the bible sustains a wrong can never make it right.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:545c 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 9ed8f1ec
FR>sq> I heard that Disney is going to "update" the Pirates of the
FR>sq> Caribbean ride so as to get rid of the maidens being chased
FR>sq> around. Fact or fiction?
FR>They're doing it now, in fact. There are crews working off and on and
they're
FR>expected to complete the tasks by the start of Summer. Idiotically now
the
FR>male pirates are going to be chasing plates of food. Is that stupid
or what?!
Not to any woman who's been responsible for feeding a teenage boy.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * That was zen, this is tao.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:c397 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 10d07380
DW>11 Jan 97 13:46, Gwenny The Pooh wrote to J.J. Hitt:
DW> JJH>> You actually know your ancestry?
DW> GP> Why so surprised JJ. Is it that uncommon among your friends and
DW> GP> whatever family you might have? Yes, some of us DO know our ancestry
DW> GP> and take pride in it.
DW>You take pride in the fact that my ancestors whipped the shit out of
your
DW>ancestors and stole all their land?
DW>Odd. I guess you're rather like all the wanna-be Confederates down here
- only
DW>worse. There aren't any Confederate Reservations, after all.
Isn't that the South?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The best argument for Gay rights are its opponents.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: HOLIDAY BOOKS
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:8a01 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7e13d2d1
MM>I do and I don't, using Emissary ver2.0, which was released a
MM>few month ago, plus a VGA monitor. The Initial page looks a bit
MM>weird, even though I see the flames (but they are rather crummy).
MM>BTW, everything looks perfect on the pages of Al, Barb, Karen,
MM>and Lynda.
MM>The portrait page comes through OK, but the character with the
MM>blue face and the sunglasses does not have any text to determine
MM>exactly whom you actually are portraying.
I don't think Judith messed with that one--it does seem to be
the same as the photo of hirself that JJ was passing out on IRC the
other day.
MM>The others are, however, funny indeed (if you like to spend
MM>longish time and money on waiting on people's peculiar images).
MM>I really wish WWW pages gave something useful, without forcing
MM>surfers to waste money on waiting for idiotic pictures of no
MM>practical relevance. USA users may be having no problems, but
MM>the rest of us (paying for every second of long-distance phone
MM>time) see it once, and never again.
If you don't want to, then don't do it. It's that simple, Mimi. If you
want to see it again, download a copy for your own enjoyment.
MM>I acutally expected some better from you. Your page is,
MM>however, no better or worse than what my 14-year old nephew
MM>has set up in Israel (to show the world how much he loves
MM>his dog).
Again, if you don't want to look at her page, then don't look at it.
BTW, do you have a page up yet?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The best-known anti-Christian symbol: an encyclopedia.-DC
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:c287 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a8b59a11
JH>On Jan 12 17:03 97, Tiger Thighs of 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org wrote:
JH> TE> It would be the voice that says, " You have killed my people for
JH> TE> our lands, destorying our homes, given us disease, put us on
JH> TE> reservations to imprison us and tear our pride away, and raped
JH> TE> the earth of her possesions and gifts. This is how you show us
JH> TE> kindness, you people with no love in your hearts."
JH> And who says that Christians have a monopoly on guilt mongering?
JH> Let me enlighten you to a simple truth:
JH> NO ONE (not me, not anyone else) on this echo ever put anyone
JH> on a reservation, gassed any Jews, owned any slaves (with the
JH> possible exception of Jim Staal), burned any witches, lynched
JH> anybody or put any Japs in a camp. Keep slinging your Caucasian
JH> Guilt from the past all you want. It won't stick because I
JH> didn't do it.
JH> Other things I didn't do and wont feel guilt over:
JH> The fire at Waco and the bombing of the OKC Federal Building.
JH> Torpedoing the Lusitania.
JH> Nukeing Japan.
JH> The disappearance of Amelia Earhardt or Jimmy Hoffa.
JH> The Great Blizzard of 1888.
JH> The explosions of the Hindenberg, the U.S. Maine or the Space
JH> Shuttle Challenger.
JH> I did not murder Nicole Brown or Ron Goldman.
JH> I was NOT on the grassy knoll on Nov. 22, 1963. (Nowhere near
JH> Dallas, as a matter of fact. Just ask Henry.)
JH> I can not be held responsible for the common cold, Yoko Ono,
JH> Eight track tapes, dog hairs, stupid taglines, Billy Beer,
JH> Rwanda or the rap version of Porgie and Bess.
That's a big disillusionment--I was flat out convinced that you were
personally and gleefully responsible for the planning and execution of
the The Great Blizzard of 1888.
You are a God/dess, after all.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The blessing received is well worth the money.--Jim Staal
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:bd41 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7d56ae97
JH>On Jan 12 17:21 97, Tiger Eyes of 1:128/203.6@fidonet.org wrote:
JH> TE> You know it is assholes, like you, that cause so many people to
JH> TE> starve theirselves to death and commit suicide.
JH> Feeling any guilt yet?
Well, he should, to have all those women (no, she said people, didn't
she...), uh people starving themselves to death because he won't bed
them. Gee, it looks like David's about to become the Holysmoke God of
Sex, or something along those lines. Any volunteers to go on a hunger
strike to qualify for David's Bed?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The Christian god needs a counselor, not worshippers.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: creation...
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:aecd 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 197a6193
RV>KW>Offerings of chocolate are always welcome. And we don't hide
our
RV>KW>little tricks--we leave them right out in the open and count on male
RV>KW>nature for the results that we want.
RV>Going by the general male stupity when flesh is showen, i can go
RV>along with that.
RV>KW>A properly respectful male is in no danger. ;)
RV>Perhaps but alas the flight of the female mind swings too fast for
RV>any male to keep within that boundary all the time. It's the off
RV>times, we're worry about.
Then stay out of the kitchen and away from the Harpies sitting
around the table . And keep the chocolate handy.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The Goddess is alive, and Magick is afoot!
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:cbc1 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 83f96b3a
RC>with: Gwenny the Pooh
RC> GTP> Okay. Who in this echo sleeps naked and wants to share a room
RC> GTP> with two pagan women.
RC> KW> Are you trying to start a stampede? Well, it's one way
RC> KW> to sort out the boys from the men...
RC>Ahem. Is this going to be a convention event?
Well....at least unofficially. ;)
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The InterNewt: broadband communication for the narrow-minded
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: feed
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:30c9 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 46216111
RC> DW> I just saw a message from Katherine telling someone else that
RC> DW> the Pie was all they had to worry about. Was she lying, or
RC> DW> am I somehow special? :)
RC> RC> The first treats are to lure you into a false sense of complacency.
RC> RC> Best to accept them all, graciously, then surreptitiously
RC> RC> dispose of the pie while no one is looking. Or bestow it upon
RC> RC> another worthy recipient.
RC> KW> LOL!! You weren't supposed to catch on to that so fast!
RC>Sure I was.
RC>I just wasn't supposed to give it away to those who didn't catch on
RC>right away. Sorry. Time to fall back on Plan B.
Back to the ladies room, Harpies, it's time to dig out plan
B-RC. And I really didn't want to have to do that--it's going to be so
messy. . .
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The Left is everyone who isn't pathologically insane.
Noam Chom
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Why you NEED to be bashed
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:d5e6 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a4cf0057
RC>with: Gwenny the Pooh
RC> JS> All that in addition to being a male bashing man hater?
RC>Feeling a bit dented, clown?
I don't see why he's so worried about it, as the key words here seem to
be 'male' and 'man'.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The majority of exposed penises in museums are on Baby
Jesus.
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:a606 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d90c597c
DC>-> On 11 Jan 97 00:50:13, ROBERT CURRY got back to GWENNY THE POOH
DC> GTP> You told us to stop her from eating Twinkies (there's that
DC> GTP> phallic symbol you adore so much).
DC> RC> A Twinkie is a phallic symbol? How about a Little Debbie's snack
cake?
DC>Twat symbol are you referring to there, Robert?
A cake and bull story.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * The proof is in the pudding.-Mom
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 17 Jan 97 22:16:00
EID:abdf 2231b200
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8d7b058f
DW>12 Jan 97 12:36, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Brian Shreve:
DW> BS> KW>> J.J. Hitt
DW> BS>> He "married" a former best friend of mine. JJ's got class, but
I'd
DW> BS>> bet no one here who hasn't met him could pick em out of a group
of
DW> BS>> 3, or 5 or 10 people. JJ's got a drive mankind doesn't see too
DW> BS>> often. I hold alot of respect and admiration for this guy. A
DW> BS>> friendship is not in the horizon, but I like what he is about,
and
DW> BS>> his compassion for learning.
DW> KW>