God Damned Fundies!
|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:55:04
EID:3647 223aa6e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Dan = Ceppa THEN Judith Bandsma ELSE Native Americans
DC> As much as age is not supposed to be a factor, maturity is
DC> moreso. Few, if any, that have posted here at about 17 or
DC> younger have lasted long. Perhaps we should start a Junior
DC> Holysmoke Echo to give the rug-rats a running start!
I'm not sure when Quentin Fai started posting, but I know I'm 18 next month
and I've been here for 'bout a year and a half. Of course, that's probably
only because I don't get offended easily over echomail, e-mail, or news-
groups.
... Tasty garbage or eternal bile, which for you? - Rev. Quentin Fai
---
* TLX v4.00 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Todds
|Date: 21 Jan 97 08:50:00
EID:7d98 22354640
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>GTP> And he's too ashamed to show his face, because he
>GTP> knows we are right. BTW, I have had a
>GTP> standing invitation to all deities to come to
>GTP> dinner at my house. Now reservation necessary, but
>GTP> it risks having to eat Wild's cooking.
FR> Some day we're going to have to drive up for dinner at
FR> the Todds' place. I want fried onions with whatever
FR> they feed us.
You want onions with your NOODLES? I'm sure that could
be aranged. I want mustard on mine.
... Religious error: (A)tone (R)epent (K)ill A Non-Christian
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 22 Jan 97 06:21:00
EID:13f1 223632a0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to David Rice <=-
>>> DH> "atheism /n. the theory or belief that God[sic]
>>> DH> does not exist."
>>JH> THAT is in the OED?
>>JH> Sounds more like Merriam Webster's.
>DR> I find it highly unlikely that OED said the above.
DH> That is exactly what it says, and all of it.
How utterly astonishing. Websters' I would expect to
be wrong, but not Oxford's English.
I went and looked it up. The Oxford English Dictionary
(OED) defines "atheist" as "One who denies the existance
of god or gods. Previous: Deist. a'theism. One who denies
the existance of god or gods." (Why it was redundant I do
not know).
Therefore you must have a cheap, off-brand OED.
... "Because God told me." -- Jesse Christ Jones (hearing voices again)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: FREDRIC RICE
|Sub: Mustard Bath!
|Date: 21 Jan 97 09:21:00
EID:8898 22354aa0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Rice to Fredric Rice <=-
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to David Rice <=-
>>FR> What did you pay for the 115vac inverter?
>DR> The 120 watt one cost about US$60.00 at West Marine.
>DR> I then purchased a 300 watt one for about US$180.00
>DR> and gave the first one to Lyndette.
I misspoke. The 120 watt cost US$50 and the 300 watt
cost US$100. These are quasi-sine-wave inverters,
which means they use tiny square waves patterned to
look like a sine wave: they will produce a loud buzz
on most audio equipment.
... "Swaggart is no con man. He is a former televangelist!" - Staal
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: GWENNY THE POOH
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 21 Jan 97 10:03:00
EID:98c4 22355060
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Gwenny The Pooh to David Rice <=-
>DR> ONLY the god Chaos?! That's remarkable. Around my place
>DR> the god Discord shows up now and then, even though he is
>DR> never invited. Then there's Lilith, who shows up once
>DR> or twice a night.
GTP> Well, there is some evidence that Coyote, Eris, and
GTP> Loki have a time-share condo in the same place (on
GTP> another continuum) as our livingroom. I'm thinking
GTP> of inviting them all to take a trip to Focus on the
GTP> Phallus.
Somehow these Gods don't strike me as being the Promise
Keepers type (Promise Keepers = Focus on the Phallus).
Colorado is turning into another Southern California. What
are you doing about it? (Dynamite is only a quick fix to
the real problem.)
... "Bother, Kembosabe" said Pooh as he scalped his latest victim.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: ALL
|Sub: MAYBE A Change In Plans
|Date: 21 Jan 97 11:48:00
EID:c9ee 22355e00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Sunday Johann stoped by my boat and mentioned that
he wants to move his boat to Florida this year,
starting in April (if his spouse lets him). The trip
would last aproximately three months. The route would
be down Mexico, to Cabo San Lucas, Puerto Vallarta,
to Costa Rica, through Panama canal, up to the
Caymens, then around Cuba to Florida. He wants to do
this in his 55-foot Fleming power boat. He asked me
if I "would like to go along" and stay with the boat
the entire three months while he flys back and forth.
I would fly back to California from Florida in July.
Three months in quasi-exodic ports where I can spend
a week at a time alone as if the boat were mine? And
he asked me if I would somehow suffer through the
sun, leasure, parties, naked women, fishing, and
snorkling?! You bet. This boat has a huge bedroom,
microwave oven, fullsize refridgerator, telephone,
GPS, TV, VCR, CD player, air-conditioning, ice maker,
water maker, hot fresh-water showers. . . .
That means putting off the trip on my boat to Tahiti
until September or October, 1997. That means I could
go to Dragonfest '97 and see Colorado one more time,
and I'll be tanned, taut, and sun-bleached at the
time (i.e. the women at Dragonfest would therefore
find me even more irresistable than usual).
=IF= this Florida trip is okayed by this guy's
spouse, I'll send status reports electronically to
Fredric Rice and I'll ask him to post them to
HOLYSMOKE and Internet.
At the end of October the "Baja Ha Ha '97" starts.
This is a sailing "race" / cruise / party that starts
from San Francisco down to Cabo San Lucas. It stops
off at San Diego for a day or two, then enters Mexico
at Encinada. Last year there were nearly 200 boats
entered in the event. After reaching Cabo San Lucas
the event is over, but many boats continue on to the
Marquesas, where I wish to go. Therefor I'll probably
enter the Baja Ha Ha this year if I go to Florida in
April.
While I do not want a crew member along on my trip to
Tahiti, it would not hurt to have someone along
during the Baja Ha Ha. That person would sail down
with me and then catch a bus or fly back to
California. That person would pay her ot his expenses
(I cannot afford the fare to send her or him back).
Conversely, if the power boat owner's spouse does not
let him take his boat to Florida, I will be shoving
off to the Marquesas on time, the first or second
week of April 1997.
... Rush Limbaugh: Every Republican homosexual's dream date!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Paul Davis
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 23 Jan 97 04:01:03
EID:de29 22372020
MSGID: 2:250/366.22 32e7364f
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 32ddea7b
CHRS: LATIN-1 2
On 16 Jan 97, Gwenny the Pooh was discussing "Why do you NEED to be sav"
with
Jim Staal.
Hi Gwenny :)
GtP> I've had a number of men express opinions to the contrary, however,
GtP> you will never have the opportunity to find out first hand exactly
what
GtP> it is that makes me "divine".
You look like him?
Paul
... MuNuQ, said Gwenny as she realized she couldn't speak Klingon.
--- Spot 1.3a #1413
* Origin: You're never alone with Schizophrenia (2:250/366.22)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: feed
|Date: 26 Jan 97 13:10:26
EID:7297 223a6940
Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan
Ceppa
DC> metals. They don't do it often, but they usually do it on
DC> my days off and this place shakes!
AS> Right when you're making a souffle, right?
DC> It realy doesn't matter. After all, if I was and it fell,
DC> there's a category of souffle's that are supposed to fall!
DC> I just rename it, like any good cook would do with a tastey
DC> dish. And, if it isn't tastey, _then_ I blame it on the
DC> metal manufacturing plant!
AS> Ah, a built in scapegoat! That works!
Not wishing to flog an extinct equine, AL, but you do know the
etomology of the term "scapegoat" don't you?
... Accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? That'd be really selfish!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 26 Jan 97 13:10:29
EID:5e26 223a6940
Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to David
Worrell
DW>> As far as I'm aware, no one has even come close to destroying the
DW>> world.
AS> I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, Dave.
DW> Still not enough to destroy the world, Al. All human life, maybe, but
DW> the world would go on.
DW> I'm not surprised, though, that a Christian equates human society with
DW> the world.
AS> But a nuclear winter
"Pop!" goes the psychology.
I just love how a *very* hypothetical, complex and convoluted
scenario gets immediate acceptance into popular culture.
Not meaning to be too nasty this windy winter morn, Al. But
beyond the recitation of Carl Sagan's popularization; do you
know what the scientific community has to say of the "nuclear
winter" scenario?
And if you think for a femtosecond that I'm going to say
anything about the Sears Nuclear Winter Fashions Catalog, you'd
probably be right.
AS> would kill off most animal life and a good deal
AS> of the plant life, also.
So? Hypervelocity bolide impacts do that as well. In fact, if
it weren't for those, we, very likely, would not be here.
A little disaster is good for the planet.
AS> It wouldn't extinguish life. But it would be
AS> a while before it bounced back.
And, THIS (globally and nonanthropically-speaking) is a "bad
thing"?
AS> If it's not the end of the world, it'll do till the real things
AS> comes along.
I suggest that you read S.J. Gould's latest tome entitled "Full
House". Alga, bacteria and protists wouldn't be affected in
the least and they are the dominant Terran lifeform (in both
duration and sheer number).
A humbling read, to say the least. Fascinating, to say a tad
more.
... Essexibasalt...A seductive dark lava.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 26 Jan 97 13:10:32
EID:d961 223a6940
Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Roger
Hunter
AS> "Okay, here are two doors. One leads to a smorgasboard of delicious
AS> food, and beautiful music, and fine books, and pretty ladies. The
AS> other leads you to a sheer dropoff and you will die, horribly, falling
AS> twenty stories.
AS> "Your choice."
RH> And you must choose one or the other.
AS> Yep.
RH> There goes your "free will", Al.
AS> One chooses to be married or not married. Does it negate one's free
AS> will?
If it's carried out at the business end of a 12 gauge, it is.
... Fiddle: Friction of a horse's tail on a cat's entrails.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: NOT why don't we see God.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 13:10:36
EID:8a84 223a6940
Lee Woofenden, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to David
Rice
DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods,
DR> "non-usually" or otherwise?
LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts, so there's not much point in
LW> discussing it.
Quick. Without looking again, what is the topic of this message?
... "Blinders make the darkness easier to see." -Styx Allum
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: promisekritters
|Date: 19 Jan 97 05:02:57
EID:6c60 22332840
Curtis Johnson, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Fredric Rice
CJ> Ken Wiens, who advocated executing raped girls who'd
CJ> had an abortion--though the example he'd agreed about was that
CJ> they'd reached the age of puberty, i.e., a ripe old twelve years.
CJ> On RIME-RELIGION, he's been ranting about how Star Trek,
CJ> "Jesus Christ Superstar," and "Silence of the Lambs" were
CJ> anti-Christian.
CJ> And, believe it or not, he said he'd just applied for a job
CJ> with Microsoft.
As what? Doorstop or wastepaper basket?
... Nothing wrong with him than an autopsy wouldn't fix.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Off the ropes
|Date: 25 Jan 97 06:07:04
EID:4eee 223930e0
Mimi Milstein, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
MM> Hello Marty!
MM> Marty Leipzig wrote in a message to Andrew Masten:
AM> Rome was technologically advanced in its time also. But, when
AM> its moral fiber collasped, so did the empire.
ML> Truth be told (here's something refreshing for you, Drew),
ML> it was probably lead poisoning that lead to the maladies of Rome.
MM> Are you referring to lead used in water pipes, Marty - or to the
MM> custom of redwine with a dash of lead as a taste improver?
To both, actually. And their penchant for cerrusite as a
pessary and adornment via cosmetics (lead carbonate isn't at
all stingy with donating a certain ion in an acidic condition).
MM> Both theories have been presented, but I don't know how valid
MM> they are. One tends to think the more wealthy classes would have
MM> been most affected, in either case, and that the ordinary poor
MM> salt-of-the-earth stock would have had little access to wine
MM> and piped-in water.
Ah, the old trickle-down theory at work again...
... "Dave. My mind. It's going. Did you know the Earth is 6,000 yrs old?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Brawley's Bait Shop
|Date: 25 Jan 97 06:13:38
EID:639c 223931a0
Ed Mills, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to John Brawley
EM> 13 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from John Brawley to Rod Swift:
RS> John Brawley's Quantum BSE-infected Butcher Shop :)
JB> Define "BSE," please?
EM>
EM> Bovine something-or-other encephalopathy (mad cow disease).
Bovine spongioforme encephalaisas. Hell, even a bovine-denied
rocknocker knows this...
... He was as tough as a two dollar steak
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: WiCCA
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:11:55
EID:abcb 22399160
Martin Goldberg, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
ML> "Next on page 1024, 'the Exploded Cat'".)
MG> Sounds OK to me. do they do rabbits?
Of course. Rabbits are merely cats without an attitude.
... "Billy, this is no time to floss."- Tom, "Godzilla vs. Megalon"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: truth
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:12:43
EID:c0d2 22399180
Rick Mcfarlane, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
RM> Good morning, Marty.
AS> I don't
AS> paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into battle, like my
AS> Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.
RM> Why not?
ML> It is not honorable to slay one's enemies whilst they're
ML> convulsed in laughter.
RM> But when it comes down to a choice between honour and a damn effective
RM> battle tactic, which one do you think the average Celt would go for?
I wasn't thinking about the average Celt; merely the average
response to Al's nudidity in battle...
RM> Take care.
And UNSECO and WHO...
... Evolution is observable, predictable & falsifiable. Creationism ain't.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Becke the Slave
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:26:15
EID:47d0 223a3340
George Mooth, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Becke
Boyer
GM> There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Nope. There are none so blind as those who see what they
believe.
... "Blinders make the darkness easier to see." -Styx Allum
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:16:28
EID:c21d 22399200
Jim Staal, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Martin
Goldberg
JS> On (16 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> Re: Your discussion of the "gleeps".
MG> If you cna find one, get the 1996 Far Side Calendar by Jim Larsen (the
MG> one that you pull off each successive day) and look at July 8.
JS> OK, I'll see if someone locally has one.
Put a crowbar in your fucking wallet and buy one, you parasite.
... A leap year is never a good sheep year.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: FREEDOM AND LIFE
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:33:37
EID:dc63 22399420
Roger Hunter, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Never mind Heisenburg; he doesn't count here.
ML> Well, *maybe* he does and *maybe* he doesn't...
RH> Yes, I know. It's hard to be certain...
I used to think so; but now I'm not so sure...
... Diplomacy: the delicate weapon of the civilized warrior.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:19:07
EID:796e 22399260
Patriot, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Fredric
Rice
Pa> And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign
Pa> father of the USA, were Christians..
Fleeing from Christian tyranny.
... Acting without thinking is like shooting without aiming.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:33:55
EID:5378 22399420
Ed Mills, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Jim Staal
RS> Yes, isn't it. Every fertilised egg that does not gain uterine
RS> wall implantation, and hence is aborted, is the fault of your
RS> God.
JS> Fault of sinful man and his 'science'.
EM> "bullshit" sniparoo.
EM> I was unaware that human reproduction was designed and implemented
EM> by human science.
EM>
EM> But how did we reproduce before we had scientists, then?
You weren't.
You were just fucked.
... Duty is what one expects from others.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Walking on water
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:21:38
EID:8b8c 223992a0
Ed Mills, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Jan deBoer
EM> 18 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Jan deBoer to Ed Mills:
Jd> On 16 Jan 97 22:07:12 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
EM> This Dutch talk is really turning me on. I'm a recovering
EM> wooden-shoe fetishist, y'know. :)
Jd> Recovering??..........slivers?
Jd> Mama mia, Itsa Gouda Italiana cheesa!
EM>
EM> It wasn't Dutch? It sure sounded like it.
EM>
EM> What's that smell? F-16 exhaust fumes again?
MiG-31 Foxbat on full-stick afterburner, more like.
... A hen who lays an egg cackles as if it was an asteroid.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:22:54
EID:a98e 223992c0
John Musselwhite, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
JM> Hi Marty!
JM>
JM> On 11 Jan 97 08:11:34, Marty Leipzig penned the following to Gwenny
JM> the Pooh re: Cheese Whiz
KB> Yes, but we don't need to eat flesh. You can live a perfectly
KB> happy life as a vegetarian.
ML>
GtP> Maybe YOU can, I can't. Seriously, I can't get all the chemicals I
GtP> need from legumes (besides the fact they make me ill). So it's meat
GtP> or be miserable for me.
JM>
JM> Meat I could give up I think...
A closet vegan..I thought so...
JM> as long as Doritos continues to
JM> make Zesty Cheese Taco Chips! They're the world's most perfect
JM> simulated food, dontchaknow!
Fat>=0. In fact, fat>20 gm/serving. Mas verboten for yours
truly.
ML> My diagnosis of bilateral evagenous diverticulitis has, sadly,
ML> removed me from the bovine, porcine and ovine predator list.
JM>
JM> I can see you now... stalking that can of Metamucil with a
JM> Kalishnikov poised in case it charges you! Beware of the wild
JM> fibre!
You, sir, have a mean streak a parsec wide.
ML> I must now make content with the killing of the occasional
ML> domesticated barnyard fowl; eviscerating and excoriating it
ML> and eating it's flesh after being charred on an open mesquite
ML> fire.
JM>
JM> Yuck... ever been to a chicken ranch, Marty?
Yeah. you bet. And Mustang Ranch as well...oh..never mind...
JM> (Not the Nevada
JM> variety either!) I'd eat (yuck!) FISH before I'd eat chicken...
JM> and I have a general rule against eating things with a blood
JM> temperature lower than my own!
That's why I'd always eat a porterhouse (64 oz., thanks), blood
rare...
Now, I have to content myself with shark, swordfish, shrimp
(cheaper than hamburger [Eat your heart out, Canada!]) and free
highway chicken.
JM>
JM> Mind you, there are some things that smell like fish and taste like
JM> chicken, but we won't go into that...
The 5 for a dollar special at Taco Bell?
ML> I'd kill for a 64 oz. porterhouse, blood rare. Unfortunately,
ML> it'd probably return the favor.
JM>
JM> Stick to just the Porter... the hops have medicinal value
JM> unrecognized by modern science...
There MUST be a God...porter, ale, stout and bourbon are ALL
fat free.
ML> Oh, and I take gobs of vitamins, minerals and amino acids.
JM>
JM> Ye Gods! Alternative medicines? B-})
Mere holdovers from my wrestling days. Hell, if 15000 mcg a day
are good, 1500000 mcg/d MUST be great.
ML> I wish they made them in beef flavor though...
JM>
JM> They do... they're called "Oxo cubes". Add two tabs of Kyolic
JM> garlic every day and you'll be pouring single malt on that
JM> searing hunk of bovine muscle tissue in no time!
Do not taunt serious geologist...
JM>
JM> BTW, By FAR the best use for Scotch is as a meat tenderizer.
JM> You'll like it much better than MSG and the mesquite takes away
JM> that "yellow snow" odour.
Nothing, short of oxalic acid, does that. I save the aroma of
scotch for when I polish the old wingtips...
ML> ... Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.
JM>
JM> With their captors coming in a close second... B-})
And the raptors close behind...
... "Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: truth
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:35:21
EID:0e14 22399460
Sally Springett, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
AS> I don't paint myself blue and leap naked or near-naked into
AS> battle, like my Celt, English, or Germanic ancestors did.
RM> Why not?
ML> It is not honorable to slay one's enemies whilst they're
ML> convulsed in laughter.
SS> Honorable, schmonerable -- it's _efficient_.
But so cheesy...caving in crania and administering random
kicks to groins and breadbaskets whilst they're snickering in
derision...
... "Coor's Light" is a redundancy.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:40:46
EID:88f3 22399500
David Worrell, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Sue
Armstrong
DW> 09 Jan 97 10:22, Sue Armstrong wrote to Katherine Wintersnight:
SA> Yeesh. Well, we're getting ours - payback for all the nice,
SA> unnaturally warm weather we've been having. It's now blizzarding
SA> outside, and it's expected that we'll have almost 2 feet of snow by
SA> the time it's over. :(
DW> Remember how I said Canadians couldn't even do winter right?
DW> The high here Tuesday is supposed to be in the low 60's. Nyah! :)
Yeah. But here in Texas, we SHOOT the tornados.
... Faster & faster..'till the thrill of speed overcomes fear of death!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: goodbye
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:43:21
EID:15c2 22399560
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
-> On 17 Jan 97 23:57:13, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> GYMNOSPERMS! GYMNOSPERMS! EXPOSE HIS SEED!
DC> GOYHIM! GOYHIM! CIRCUMCISE HIM!
ML> GYPSUM! GYPSUM! PLASTER HIM!
DC> GRASS! GRASS! SMOKE'M!
ML> GAROU! GAROU! MOON HIM!
DC> GEESE! GEESE! GOOSE HIM!
ML> GROUSE! GROUSE! BITCHIN'
DC> GOOD! GOOD! GIVE HIM THAT!
ML> GOD! GOD! GIVE 'EM THAT INSTEAD!
DC> GADS! GADS! FLY HIM!
GOADS! GOADS! PROVOKE HIM!
... Docs? Last time I went, I got nasty tasting medicine.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Warring Christanic Factions
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:44:46
EID:d463 22399580
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Ed Mills
-> On 17 Jan 97 17:32:17, Ed Mills got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> straight forward, however, I'm finally able to use BW
DC> again as my OLR.
EM> I has never used anything else. Have got no experience to
EM> compare. Is Blue Wave more or less complicated? Does it work
EM> with any terminal program?
DC> BW is pretty easy to set up and use. It's got some great
DC> features for saving messages, searching, sorting, etc.
DC> However, you need to convert your incoming mail into a packet
DC> that BW can handle. It can use QWK packets, but it has more
DC> enhanced features in BW format.
DC> I'm using OMX to convert the PKT files to BW format and back
DC> for the replies.
Do you then gesture hypnotically and call for the One, True Packet?
(Sheesh...#342 of 1728...remind me to go to the North Sea for a
core run...)
... Do radio atheists say "Send in your money & be saved?"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:46:47
EID:896f 223995c0
Don Martin, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
DM> Marty Leipzig said "Reading Incomprehension" to Don Martin, adding:
NC> You actually take this echo serious enough to use a spell
NC> checker!! You are are a sick puppy then aren't you!
DM>
CJ> You mean you don't take your cause seriously enough to make
CJ> it appear that it's supported by intellectually competent people?
DM>
DM> Darn! Wish I'd said that!
ML>
ML> You will, Herr Martin, you will...
DM>
DM> As you just did--I think the original of _that_ line was said to
DM> Milton Berle about 40 years ago, but I cannot remember by whom.
DM>
DM> It is a shame to let good things go to waste.
ML>
ML> Of course, of course. It was an Oscar Wildean retort to
ML> Whistler.
DM>
DM> You're sure it wasn't Sir Roger de Coverly to Colly Cibber,
DM> first?
Definitely. Or possibly maybe.
DM> Or Shakespeare to Sir Francis Bacon?
Perchance?
DM> These things are like
DM> reincarnation; once they begin there is no end to them.
Like a fundy at a tent revival...
... "You are flawed and imperfect. You are guilty of error!" Kirk to Nomad
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 25 Jan 97 18:52:37
EID:6463 22399680
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Katherine
Wintersnight
-> On 17 Jan 97 17:16:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Gwenny The
Pooh
GTP>DC> DC>> You seem pretty brassiere of yourself.
GTP>DC> KW>> That's a bra'd indictment.
GTP>DC>> Well, Maiden, you are holding to Form.
GTP>KW> You wouldn't want to say that I was strapped for a reply. Only if
it
DC> was GTP>KW> a long line .
GTP>Of corset.
KW> Only if I boned for it.
DC> Now you are underwiring this list.
Oh, Bali shwert. Such an uplifting riposte.
... Do something unusual today. Pay my phone bill.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: You think you have it rough?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:44:12
EID:b9c6 223a3580
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
-> On 17 Jan 97 23:58:47, Marty Leipzig got back to Dan Ceppa
ML> Barely. But I found my clothes the next day...
DC> Who was wearing them?
ML> A previously Polar bare...
DC>
DC> I prefer car-she-sian coordinates.
You gonna planar?
ML> I only accept free will gifts of 80, 90 and 101 proof.
DC> OK, can you break a 151?
ML> It gives me fifths to try...
DC> Ok, have this over of
DC> 50.33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
DC> 333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
DC> 33
I've third this one before.
... "Oh, baster, said Pooh, remarking on Mary's method of insemination.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:46:22
EID:7ff9 223a35c0
Rod Swift, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
RS> On 10-12-96 at 09:44, MARTY LEIPZIG wrote to ALL:
ML> JS> BTW, Me n' the Lovely Wilbur [tm] have been an item for 32 years.
30
ML> JS> within the binds of holy matrimony. She/we love it.
ML> Looks like Guinness has a new entrant in the Masochism/Sadomasochism
ML> catagory.
RS> I thought you were going to comment on the 2 missing years :)
Nope. I went for the obvious 30.
RS> Rod "...I can hear Jim's muffled screams as the Lovely Wilbur
RS> gets out the branding iron for 'Mr Ed' Jim again" Swift :)
"Wilburrr...can I have my testicles tonight?"
... Anyone can walk on water, just know where the rocks are.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:49:51
EID:b767 223a3620
Lynda Bustilloz, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
LB> Don and Marty were killing time yakking about My Summer Weekend:
RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan. :) :)
RS> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
RS> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....
LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!
DM> For the mozarella part, no.
ML> And for that, God, edamed'em to hell...
LB> Havarti evidence of that?
It's feta'd to happen.
... 50th Rule of Creationism: Tell 'em they're evil and going to Hell!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: #holysmoke
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:50:49
EID:be53 223a3640
Lynda Bustilloz, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
LB> Katherine and Marty were killing time yakking about #holysmoke:
KW> Not everyone goes for the cat motif anyway--we have a werewolf as
KW> well.
ML> And the occasional Brontosaur.
LB> VERY occasional.
LB> Wherethehell ya been?
Lately, the North Sea. Stopped in Glasgow for an afternoon and
wasted an entire week.
... IT AUTOMATICALLY HOMES IN ON THE NEAREST PLACE OF WORSHIP.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:51:53
EID:c42a 223a3660
Lynda Bustilloz, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
LB> Al and Marty were killing time yakking about Bacteria and Evolution.:
ML> Al Schroeder, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
ML> Dan Ceppa
AS> Yeah, but He judges about the "little bit". We're not sure (at this
AS> point) whether he's a lenient judge or a strict one.
DC> Having seen how he treats others via his own "written word",
DC> he's a pety despot.
AS> Who incarnated Himself as one of His subjects and endured a trial and
AS> execution by them...for them?
ML> Sheesh...talk about melodramatic.
LB> You never call! You never write! You just don't care!
LB> I spent 3 DAYS in labor and THIS is the thanks I get?!
"And you, always going out drinking wine and hanging around
with your scuzzy fisherman buddies. When the hell are you going
to get off your ass and get a job?"
... An alcoholic: A person who drinks more than his physician
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:53:24
EID:b788 223a36a0
Curtis Johnson, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
DC>> You protest too much. Got any evidence that that American Indians
DC>> invented the wheel?
ML>
DC>> I'll give you the quasi-written language.
CJ>> Without a domesticated "beast of burden," of what use
CJ>> would a wheel have been?
ML> They made for dandy toys and even calanders; ask any Aztec.
CJ> Exactly. Perhaps there were good situational reasons why
CJ> that geometric form was never used for transportation.
Wheels don't work terribly well in jungles.
CJ> Cortez, et al. were astonished that "Mexico City" (however
CJ> it was spelled) was larger than any European city of the time.
Amazing how things have devolved.
... Couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery. (Common in Australia.)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: goodbye! goodbye! n
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:54:30
EID:f8f8 223a36c0
Curtis Johnson, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
SM>>> "GUARDS!! GUARDS!! AFTER HIM!!" [d&rg]
JH>>> GOURDS! GOURDS! SQUASH HIM!
DC>>> GARRANDS! GARRANDS! SHOOT HIM!
ML>>> GERUNDS! GERUNDS! DO HIM!
EV>>> GROUNDS! GROUND! FILTER THEM!
ML>>> GROINS! GROINS! KNEE HIM!
JH>>> GOADS! GOADS! POKE HIM!
ML>>> GOATS! GOATS! RAM HIM!
DC>>> GROATS, GROATS, BOIL HIM!
ML>>> GOITERS! GOITERS! ENLARGE HIM!
DC>>> GROLIERS! GROLIERS! CATALOG HIM!
ML>>> GONIOMETERS! GONIOMETERS! ANGLE HIM!
EM>>> GaAsFETS! GaAsFETS! AMPLIFY HIM!
RV>>> GROWLER! GROWLER! SHORT-CIRCUITED HIM!
CJ>>> GOPHERS! GOPHERS! FTP HIM!
KW>>> GALACTOPHORE! GALACTOPHORE! MILK HIM!
cj>>> GALACTOSE! GALACTOSE! RUN HIM!
FR>> GLUCOSE! GLUCOSE! GLAZE HIM!
CJ>> GRACKLES! GRACKLES! PECK HIM!
ML> GRUNIONS! GRUINIONS! BEACH HIM!
CJ> GADS! GADS! ZOOK HIM!
GONIATITES! GONIATITES! SHELL HIM!
... Bang! goes the kanga off the bonnet of the van.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Add BW
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:55:36
EID:1a11 223a36e0
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
DC> Marty, I figured you may like to see this info:
DC> * Originally Re: Add BW
DC> * Original Area: Offline Echo Support
DC> Now that George is back to issuing registrations and the echo has two
DC> moderators, it is back to BW support (instead of the bickering and
DC> fighting it was doing when there was no moderator in sight).
10,000 Shermans, Dan (many tanks).
... "Hey - he invented the hangover!"- Crow, "Teenage Caveman"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Anthropic asininities.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:56:30
EID:7290 223a3700
Andrew Masten, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marty
Leipzig
ML> And you call your belief "religion".
AM> No, you do.
ML> Indeed. Pray, what do you call a belief and homage to the
ML> supernatural? Aardvarkism?
AM>
AM> I call it a covenant relationship with God.
I call it delusional behaviour.
AM> Religion is man
AM> striving through ritual and formula to appease God(s).
"Bow and scrape, lowly commoner. Lo, I am a jealous God and need to
be appeased."
You worship a thug and bully.
ML> One can only imagine what you believe causes profound deafness.
AM> You have a cruel and hard heart Marty.
ML> Nope, my recent spate of EKG's provide evidence otherwise.
ML> Although I can, at times, be very cruel to the ignorant and
ML> quite hard of hearing myself (PSH of over 95%).
ML> At least I don't pray for the restoration of my hearing, I
ML> instead depend on audiologists and neurologists.
ML> So there.
AM>
AM> I pray for my daughters restoration, but not in leiu of medical
AM> treatment.
Do you also trill at her? It's probably much more effacacious
than praying and she might just be amused.
AM> She wears hearing aids. My wife and I sign.
Doesn't anyone just talk anymore?
AM> She's had over
AM> a quarter million dollars of medical treatment for other maladys.
On whose nickel?
ML> Wrong again, Andy. Neutrinos are evidenced by experimentation.
ML> Perhaps you should read up on what you're trying, however
ML> vainly, to attack.
AM>
AM> By inference, not direct observation.
ML> No, Andy, you are simply WRONG. By direct observation of the
ML> effect of neutrinos with matter. Physical evidence of
ML> existence.
AM>
AM> What is observed is electrons being dislodged by what is thought (or
AM> believed) to be nuetrinos. No one has directly observed nuetrinos.
By directly observed evidence.
You ever see the core of the Earth? If it's never been
observed, by your illogic, then it must not exist.
Chowderhead.
AM> Its hypothesis is by inference.
Nope. It is by observation of physical evidence.
AM> Just as design can be
AM> deduced by inference.
ML> Wrong yet again. You assign something natural to the
ML> supernatural. That is not only wishful (hardly scientific)
AM> Repeatedly saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong.
No, that is true; and unnecessary. You do that quite well all
by yourself.
AM> First, my
AM> conclusions of how we arrived here are not scientific.
Whoa! Now *there's* a newsflash.
AM> I never
AM> claimed they were. They are philisophic, and theologic.
In other words, bullshit.
AM> However, I
AM> support my philsophic conclusions on scientific facts as much as
AM> possible.
And you fail; utterly and miserably.
ML> thinking; it is not thinking at all, just mere belief. See Hume
ML> again as he destroys Paley's "A watch implies a watchmaker." We
ML> are familiar with the causal links from watchmaker to watch,
ML> but it is fallacious to extend it to the universe (we have no
ML> experience in building universes) and this causality of watch to
ML> watchmaker is flawed as a watch is neither an organic entity
ML> (i.e., discard "designed" animals) nor is it natural (i.e., it is
ML> man-made, therefore discard everything else in the universe not
ML> made by man). Leaves your argument as before, a rather empty
ML> subset of nothing.
AM>
AM> Your right Marty,
Ah. The beginnings of learning.
AM> we have no experience building universes. We do
AM> know that there was a time when there was no universe. Prior to
AM> that event, there was no time or the laws of physics.
There was what we call "nothing".
AM> Whatever
AM> forces instigated the event of the universe was or is outside of
AM> the laws we are confined to.
Not necessarily. Perhaps for this universe to exist, there were
pre-existing conditions (from where? Unknown.) that precluded any
other set of circumstances to exist. Of course, this is just my
idle speculation; although it does require exactly less than
one God.
AM> Our experience with watchmakers is irrelevent. Imagine that no one
AM> had seen a watch ever before and one suddenly appears in a lab. Do
AM> you think they would have difficulty discerning if it was made by
AM> design or not?
Nope. Man-made objects such as the intricate machinery of a
watch is obviously an artifact.
AM> After all, if biological things can evolve and
AM> become more complicated, why can't non-living matter evolve?
Because of the constraints of the laws of physics and
chemistry.
AM> Do the
AM> laws of physics care whether living or non-living matter becomes
AM> more complicated?
Stuff your anthropomorphosizing, Drew. The laws of physics and
chemistry don't "care"; they exist.
AM> The laws of physics allow for the existence of
AM> computers, couldn't they have evolved just as easily. Slowly over
AM> millions of years of course, just a few molecules of silicon at a
AM> time.
Nope. Evolution is a biological function, by definition;
although it's typically not understood as such and misused by
those who do not have this understanding.
AM> I don't think its impossible that the universe exploded out of a
AM> singularity at just the right velocity so galaxies and solar
AM> systems formed.
Bravo for your keen grasp of the obvious. Jeers at your anthropic
"cart before the horse" plaint.
ML> Why not? That's exactly what happened.
AM> As I said, I don't think its impossible, its what caused this event
AM> that we differ.
You, like your nescient forbears, assign all the current
unknowns to a God(s). As ridiculous as it was to the ancients,
it's even more preposterous now.
ML> You have to assign the event to some unevidenced supernatural.
ML> Ockham's razor decapitates you.
AM> You assign the event to some unevidenced natural cause. How (other
AM> than in your own mind) is that superior?
Quantum vacuum fluctuations are quite evidenced.
AM> Logical inference Marty. An event that caused the laws of physics to
AM> exist, must inherently be outside said laws.
Wrong. That's only one possible set of circumstances. Perhaps
the laws of physics are the same in every possible universe
(provide evidence otherwise) or cannot be different. It's entirely
possible, however improbable.
*POOF* goes your illogical inference.
AM> Stuff your belief system that says mechanistic forces alone
AM> suffice to turn random matter into complicated sentinent beings.
ML> A. There is nothing other than mechanistic forces in a natural
ML> universe. Provide evidence otherwise.
AM> There's no indication that such forces are capable of creating
AM> themselves.
ML> There's no evidence that they're not. Couple that with the fact
ML> that they do exist and my contention has one quite greater plus
ML> than yours; it requires exactly less than one God, supernatural
ML> occurrence or miracle.
AM> Which would be a greater miracle. If the faces on Mount Rushmore
AM> were created by design or by natural forces blowing against the
AM> rock?
Neither. They were created obviously by design (by Gutzam
Borglum in the Cretaceous Harny Peak Granite); no gods necessary.
AM> The fact we know there by design removes our surprise and
AM> explains it well. My contention that were here by design removes
AM> our surprise that were here.
Odd. The only thing that surprises me is that such
benightedness as yours exists.
AM> Besides, miracles are relative.
"Relative"? Since when is the term "relative" a synonym for
"bullshit"?
AM> To an
AM> agency that created the universe and physical laws its no miracle
AM> at all.
Exactly; it's no miracle at all that it's all natural and sans
God.
ML> You might want to get some iodine for that razor burn, Drew.
ML> B. Matter is not "random", but quite ordered by the laws of
ML> chemistry and physics.
AM> Just like it was planned.
ML> Evidence for this? There is none, as the way the laws of
ML> physics and chemistry operate in this universe is one of but
ML> myriad possibilities. If the conditions and parameters at
ML> time=0 were different, so would the universal outcome.
AM> Thats right. And when you consider all the infinite permutations
AM> that would exclude us being here you have to ask yourself just one
AM> question. Do you feel lucky?
Not really. If the initial conditions were different, the outcome
would have been quite different.
But I'm reasonably certain that if other civilizations exist,
that there'd still be nescient creatures that would have to
invent a cosmic overseer; someone to keep them all warm and
snuggly and safe from the bad, old, mean mechanistic universe.
AM> Well do you punk?
Your Clint Eastwood sounds more like Herve Villacheze.
ML> And each and every one of them would be as totally
ML> naturalistic, mechanistic and supernaturally lacking as the
ML> other.
AM> You claim your notions are
AM> scientifically based.
ML> Absolutely. And amply evidenced.
AM>
AM> Pure nonsense. As you have amply demonstrated in this post your
AM> rejection of a designer or God is based on philisophical reasonings.
ML> Wrong YET again. I reject it because it's a religious
ML> construct TOTALLY bereft of evidence.
ML> And that, old bean, is PURE science.
AM>
AM> You admitted a few paragraphs ago that there is no evidence that
AM> the universe or the laws of nature created themselves. Yet that
AM> doesn't prevent your monolithic view point. Besides, proposing were
AM> here by design is hardly tantamount to a religious experience.
Experience? No. Religious dogma? Precisely.
AM> Which I have contended was true all along. You just use the
AM> credibility and integrity of science to further your THINK SYSTEMS.
ML> "THINK SYSTEMS"? A few gigatons more evidenced and trillions of
ML> lightyears more advanced and utile than your mindless "BELIEF
ML> SYSTEMS".
AM> My reference to think systems was tongue and cheek Marty.
No wonder it was all mushy and garbled.
AM> Your
AM> defense of your point of views are throughly grounded in
AM> philisophical tomes you have espoused.
Science and philosophy can and do intersect; but they do not in
any way overlap. I tend toward the point most distant the point
of intersection.
AM> Which is fine. At least we
AM> can jettison this idea that your an atheist on some scientific
AM> basis.
Fine. And you'd be just as wrong as you always are. Science has
no use nor desire for God(s), sprites, spooks, spirits or
spectres. As a scientist, how could I possibly be any
different?
... A man has to believe in something. I believe I'll have a beer.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Carl Sagan
|Date: 26 Jan 97 07:26:39
EID:6345 223a3b40
Damien Wellman, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Marty Leipzig
DW> IF Marty = Leipzig THEN Damien Wellman ELSE Carl Sagan
ML> G'wan...beat it.
DW> Would this be a cymbal of your impatience with such things?
ML> I snare'd you into my trap...
DW> Peh. You haven't even gotten off bass.
Peh Lee...another pot blacking the kettle call.
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh, as he called that 'special' KGB number.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Lack blipstick.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:59:40
EID:6ce1 223a5f60
Patriot, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Fredric
Rice
Pa> Now, while I am a Christian, if we are to go by the Bible, is there
Pa> really anything wrong with saying "fuck?" Well, not the greatest
Pa> thing to say, sure.. But not like it blasphemes His name or
Pa> anything..
Well, God damn it all to hell and back, boy; you just ain't doing
it right.
... Faith healers do it with whatever they can lay their hands on.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:38:32
EID:dad5 223a44c0
Marilyn Burge, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan
Ceppa
MB> On (20 Jan 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Marilyn Burge...
-> On 18 Jan 97 17:31:20, Marilyn Burge got back to Sy Hughes
SH> Well stone me! I was always led to believe that the Amerindians were
a
SH> tribal warring nation!
MB> The plains Indians were. They had to be to survive. On the other
MB> hand, the coastal Indians were primarily hunters, gatherers, farmers,
MB> and fishermen.
DC> You have to remember the the Sioux didn't leave Minnesota and head
DC> west because of something Horace Greely said. They were kicked
DC> out of there by the other tribes in the area.
MB>
MB> Minnesota is, broadly speaking, part of the plains I was talking
MB> about. I believe the mean elevation of Minnesota is something like 50
MB> feet;
63 feet, according to the USGS.
MB> that's why it's the Land of a Thousand Lakes.
"Land of 10,000 Lakes" is their motto. The shysters, they only
have 8,964 lakes. Let the truth from a Wisconsin native be
known, that great "meeting of the waters" state has 10,453 lakes.
Epicontinental glacial ice sheets will do that, you know...
... Do not clog intellect's sluices with knowledge of questionable uses.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Christ-Like
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:42:46
EID:6328 223a4540
Paul Davis, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan
Ceppa
PD> On 11 Jan 97, Dan Ceppa was discussing
PD> "Christ-Like" with Domino.
PD> Hi Dan :)
Do>> Have you ever thought that maybe it's not a Deity that's allowing
Do>> anything, that we're allowing everything?
DC> Of course we are. We shape the world around us into what we want it
to
DC> be.
PD> Or do we shape it into what we think it is? (there is a subtle
PD> difference)
Do>> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
DC> It may pay lip service to that concept. However, any free will is
DC> oveshadowed by the same book's thinly disguised threats.
PD> OK. I'll give you a chance to exercise your free-will.
PD> Here is a fire. You have a choice to put your hand in and hold it
PD> there for five minutes, or not. What is your choice?
If there was a good reason, in the fire. But I would first don
my Nomex gloves first.
No big deal.
Next.
PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
Both, in spades.
... "Eighteen straight whiskeys...I think that's a record." (Dylan Thomas)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:45:50
EID:3154 223a45a0
Paul Davis, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to All
PD> This question is open to all, not just claimed-athiests, atheists and
PD> religious types.
You rang?
PD> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would you want to
PD> have a look?
Nope. God (which one, BTW?) is defined as a supernatural being.
The supernatural, by definition, is beyond the natural.
Therefore, if it is beyond natural; it cannot exist in a
natural universe.
We would then conclude that the "someone" is either a
psychotic, an imbecile or deep into his second liter of
ClanMcGargle; and would decline traveling to his domicile.
PD> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
An atheist anti-idiocy campaigner.
... Everybody should believe: I believe I'll have a drink.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Brian Shreve
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:55:04
EID:844c 223a46e0
Brian Shreve, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marilyn
Burge
BS> See ya around Mouth.
In this medium, wouldn't that more accurately be "Fingers"?
... "You're the best straight man we atheists could pray for." -- Marty
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Meter O'Prophecy = 60%
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:04:03
EID:4869 223a4880
Jan deBoer, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Leonard
Bernier
Jd> On 18 Jan 97 15:33:00 Leonard Bernier wrote to All...
LB> PRAISE GOD !
LB> PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be sitent before his accusers.
LB> "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did open His mouth
LB> ."
LB> FULFULLMENT: "And while He was being accused by the chief priests
LB> and elders, He answered nothing."
LB> Since the Lord is directing our steps, why try to understand
LB> everything that happens along the way ?
LB> Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
LB> SENT ABOUT 60 % OF PROPHECY SO FAR.
Jd> Hi!....no need to send anymore - we already subscribe to Jean Dixon.
Saw a note in the paper that JD is no more (i.e., croaked).
She missed that one big time.
... Hi, I'm your personal god for this evening. How many in your cult?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: It'sa gooda cheza!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:05:22
EID:4ca8 223a48a0
Jan deBoer, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Ed Mills
Jd> On 19 Jan 97 22:43:52 Ed Mills wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> Mama mia, Itsa Gouda Italiana cheesa!
EM> It wasn't Dutch? It sure sounded like it.
EM> What's that smell? F-16 exhaust fumes again?
EM> edweird
Jd> Ja, ja - gouda isst frumm der verdommde amsterdammers!
Jd> I vaas tryink to make der ethnic yoke.....VERY risque in these trying
Jd> times!
Jd> You can sign up for a Berlitz course in Italian.....or, you CAN fake
Jd> it! YES - fake it! - by adding an 'a' on the trailing end of most
Jd> words.
Jd> "Dont'a vorry - I fixa for yew!" - (based on personal experience!).
Jd> ^ ^
Jd> Thus, 'good cheese' becomes 'gooda cheesa'....Yuk, yuk".
Jd> Phonetically, gouda cheese = gooda cheese.
Jd> Therefore, one should find "gooda cheeza" in yer local Italiano
Jd> Grocery store!
Jd> Oh, Gawd...c'mon, Ed - your pulling my leg! Yer smelling Lambretta
Jd> fumes!
Jd> Have lunch at Frankie Tommato's - Itsa gouda fooda!
And an Italian bigamist is a heavy regional fog.
... Actions from sanity are not necessarily from feeling.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:06:40
EID:c41f 223a48c0
Sue Armstrong, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to George
Mooth
SA> Making a good die roll, George Mooth cast Our Daily Bread at Rod
SA> Swift .. and all hell broke loose.
RS>I'm bent, and my "tree" grows when I see your cute ass, Mooth! :) :)
GM> There you go again - being a mental slave to Satan. When will you
GM> choose to be free and not a slave?
SA> When will you stop spamming the echo with your useless canned
SA> drivel?
Never. His God told him to (SonofSam I am).
BTW, did you receive the mail?
... "Bad carrot! Bad, BAD!!"- Crow, "It Conquered the World"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Personal jabs
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:17:14
EID:a8a8 223a4a20
Jan deBoer, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marilyn
Burge
Jd> On 18 Jan 97 14:38:30 Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer...
Jd> ... 665 - Neighbor of the Beast
Jd> I -like- it!...But, what about 667?
0, 7.19443628747: the arccosines of the Beast
0.001501501501502: 1/Beast
0.001501501501502: the reciprocal of the Beast
0.5877852522925: the cosine of the Beast
-0.8090169943749: the sine of the Beast
-1.376381920471: the inverse tanh of the Beast
-1.376381920471: the tangent of the Beast
1.57079632679, -7.19443628747: the arcsines of the Beast
1010011010: the binary of the Beast
1232: the octal of the Beast
2.82347422917: the log to the base 'e' of the Beast.
25.8069758011: the square root of the Beast
25.807 - The square root of the beast.
295408296: the cube of the Beast
2x3x3x37 - prime factor of the beast
333: Eric the half-a-Beast.
443556: the square of the Beast
6.50128967054: the natural log of the Beast
665 - Neighbor of the Beast
666 1/2 The mother-in-law suite of the Beast.
666-555-1212....The number for information of the Beast.
666i: BMW of the Beast.
... ***667: Satan's neighbor...*** (As per your request.)
7.194436287473 : the inverse cosh of the Beast
7.194437414727: the inverse sinh of the Beast.
8.691504350753e+288: the cosh of the Beast
8.691504350753e+288: the sinh of the Beast
8.73289174129: the cube root of the Beast
89.9139703657: the arctangent of the Beast
999...the Number of the Beast in Australia.
So there.
... "Oh, that'll go great in his alien-hell-beast-from-space collection!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:18:34
EID:9156 223a4a40
Dave Hamilton, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Katherine
Wintersnight
DC>> What's next? Pre-conception baptisms for every egg the woman
DC>> is about to release?
KW> Why not just baptize her belly, and get it over with?
DH> And for 'doubles', her forehead.
DH> I dunno how many times i stood bagging (breathing for) a dead
DH> victim while we waited for the priest to arrive and administer
DH> last rites.
DH> Once I made the observation that the guy was probably long
DH> gone to the redwood cedar saunas about now, but what happened
DH> if he got last rites and survived? The priest, clearly under
DH> unfamiliar pressure, answered that while he wasn't really sure,
DH> he thought the victim might get extra points.
DH> My best interpretation is that 'last rites' is sort of a letter
DH> of introduction. I've since taken to preforming the ritual on
DH> myself whenever I'm feeling particularly inadaquate in any given
DH> day. I figure there ought to be a sizeable file of last-rites
DH> resume's on me by now. Maybe I'll be able to get a job (since I'm
DH> in a one-on-one marriage) evaluating the celibate behaviour of
DH> the priests who have made carreers out of offering critical
DH> advice to married couples.
DH> Do you suppose there's anyone from heaven contributing
DH> to HolySomke? No? Aw, Gee, looks pretty grim then...
Reminds me of the Burma Shave signs now so regrettably gone:
"Be careful as you drive,
and watch that junction.
To soon, too fast,
Extreme unction.
Burma Shave."
... Factualist: one, who in facing the lack of facts, makes them up.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:21:11
EID:2825 223a4aa0
Katherine Wintersnight, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to,
said to David Worrell
DW>I have a friend here who is quite literally one of the most physically
DW>attractive women I have *ever* seen. She's always asking me why men don't
ask
DW>her out. "errr... Maybe because you scare the piss out of 'em?"
DW>On several occasions she has done the "fawn eyes" bit to guys that interest
DW>her while we are out together. She doesn't understand when I tell her
that
KW> any DW>guy she gets while in the company of another male is very likely
to be a
DW>complete shithead. I try to get her to go out alone, and she says, "But
then
DW>all the guys will be hitting on me!" By this point in this recurrent
DW>conversation, I start looking for a brick wall to bash my head against.
DW>Women are fucking *odd*.
KW> Safety in numbers, David. She doesn't want to be staked out like a
KW> goat in a tiger trap.
Or in (shades of Michael Crichton) the Tyrannosaur Paddock.
... Barney and Baby Bop at Jurassic Park = A happy Velociraptor pack.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:24:23
EID:0067 223a4b00
Rob Burcham, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Starfire
S> DC> So, will the real Starfire and/or Gwenny the Pooh figure out what
S> DC> you/they are doing and get back to us and stop talking to yourself
or
S> DC> selves.
S>
S> We aren't real we are pigments of your imagination.
RB> I shudder to think what sort of reply Worrell will have
RB> for this one.
Or old, kindly Doc Glodbreg. He was into paints before he found
his one, true calling of head rabbit torturer.
... Auntie Em: Hate you, Hate Kansas. Taking the dog. Dorothy
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:26:57
EID:b919 223a4b40
Dan Ceppa, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Al Schroeder
-> On 19 Jan 97 08:05:33, Al Schroeder got back to ROBERT CURRY
AS> Certainly it does; it assumes that the bedrock of reality is
AS> intelligent and omnipotent (in the sense that He can do anything that
AS> it not logically inconsistent.)
DC> Then, Al, that 'bedrock' is not omnipotent. After all, you just
DC> placed limits on your 'bedrock'.
Care to ask an old, worldly atheist rocknocker how bedrock erodes?
... "A double Rock-n-Rye and seven Carlings, please." - Boon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: kablooey
|Date: 26 Jan 97 12:01:25
EID:81d9 223a6020
Ed Mills, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to ALL
EM> Hey, you geology guys:
You rang?
EM> While we're on this volcano thing, I seem to recall seeing a
EM> model at the Mt. St. Helens interpretive center which depicted
EM> the relative sizes of all the known major eruptions.
EM>
EM> St. Helens was the smallest of the bunch, shown as a mushroom
EM> cloud standing just a few inches high.
St. Helens was a popcorn fart. There is ample evidence of
Cascadian paleovolcanics that would decimate kilokilometers.
EM> Vesuvius was bigger, along
EM> with several others, but there was this _one_ that TOWERED over
EM> all the rest. It made St. Helens look like a medium-sized fart.
EM>
EM> I vaguely remember it being Mt. Mazama, (the precursor to Crater
EM> Lake) but I'm not sure... maybe it was Krakatoa? Anyone know fer
EM> sure?
But of course, all you need to do is ask.
Then again, you did. There have been a number of very
destructive eruptions in recorded history. Some of the nastier
have been Mt. Tambora in Indonesia in 1815, Krakatoa (actually,
*west* of Java) in 1883, Mt. Pelee, Martineque in 1902 and
Nevada del Ruiz, Colombia in 1985. All were major events,
seismically, volcanically and loss of life-wise (between 23k
and 93k souls nuked). But, the mother of all eruptions was probably
Santorini (Santora, Thera) in the Aegean, near the isle of Crete
in c. 1470 BCE. This eruption snuffed the developing Minoan
culture and buried many towns (a la Vesuvius; Akrotiri).
But even the Santorian episode pales in comparison to those
found in the geological (not anthropological) record. The
Colombia River effusives are one of such note (not terribly
life destructive, but barfed out thousands of cubic kilometers
of volcanic material), the Karroo sequence of Africa and the
real mother of them all, the Deccan Traps of India. The latter
is a series of basaltic flows that covered some 500,000 square
klicks of real estate back near the K/T boundary.
But, of course, your question needs to be refined a bit; as
there are at least a dozen different types of volcanic
eruptions. Some are large and relatively quiet, others are more
vociferous (Krakatoa was probably the loudest sound ever
produced [worse than 12" from the main tower at a Pink Floyd
concert]). Size? How defined? Number killed? Santorini wins,
hands down. Volume of effusives? The Deccan Traps have no peer
in the rock record.
Does that help?
... Does a radioactive cat have 18 half-lives?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:04:12
EID:ac43 223a5880
Don Martin, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Curtis
Johnson
DM> Curtis Johnson said "al debunks apple sauc" to Al Schroeder,
DM> adding:
AS> You were questioning my mentioning of Sophocles as the beginning of
AS> philosophy, correct? But if you think it must have a formal "?" then
AS> certainly I will withdraw the term. "Statement", then. Even "reply".
CJ> Incorrect, except in Al semantics.
CJ> Me: "You disagree with just about every history of Greek
CJ> philosophy written."
CJ> You: "Thanks for asking a question."
CJ> Now you say it's philosophy began with Sophocles. I'm
CJ> awaiting for you to justify this on the ground he wrote dialogue.
DM>
DM> He DID! I can refer you to the dialogue betwixt Oedipus
DM> and Tiresias in Oedipus Rex, by all accounts written by
DM> Sophocles.
DM>
DM> "Euripides?"
DM> "No, they just tore by themselves."
"This is the story of Oedipus Rex.
You may have heard of his odd complex.
His name appears in Freud's index.
Because he loved his mother."
"So be kind to your mother,
take her to lunch, have a chat.
Or maybe buy her a brand new hat.
Perhaps you'd better leave it at that.
Or you'll end up with a rather complex complex,
Like old Oedipus,
[I'd rather marry a duckbilled platypus],
Than be like old Oedipus Rex!"
- T. Lehrer
... Nothing wrong with him that an autopsy wouldn't fix.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: One of yours?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:12:26
EID:55ce 223a5980
Don Martin, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Katherine
Wintersnight
DM> Katherine Wintersnight said "One of yours?" to Don Martin,
DM> adding:
DM> If anyone here knows why Spielberg, Gates, et al are
DM>peeping in this lady's windows, please advise and I shall
DM>forward the information to her.
KW> I want to know why no one's informed "A Current Affair" or such about
KW> the orgy going on in her front yard. I would think that such footage
KW> would be worth a good bit.
DM>
DM> Tonite's show: Olympia, Washington, where the rich and
DM> famous go to spawn!
I fondly, though distantly, remember the Olympia Beer ads which
tout "It's the water!"; where the middle word is always, on
billboards, excised.
... 24th Rule of Creationism: Claim Velikovsky was a genius.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: teachers
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:17:11
EID:834f 223a5a20
Chris Green, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Bill
Wolff
-=> Quoting Bill Wolff to Chris Green <=-
CG> If all the 'students' failed to learn, I'd change the teacher!
BW> Unfortunately, nobody else has applied for the job. Are you
BW> volunteering for the job?
CG> First Rule I learned in the Army: Never Volunteer
Then how'd you get there in the first place?
... "She, uh...she's making flash powder from her own filth!"-Joel
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: I'm back to work today
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:18:48
EID:00f0 223a5a40
Chris Green, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan
Ceppa
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Chris Green <=-
CG> My qualifications are, as is; my life is, as is; whether you wish to
CG> believe or disbelieve it, I really couldn't give a damn!
DC> So, what the fuck are you posting here for? Just to waste
DC> bit-space?
CG> 'Postulation One', should have reached you all by now.
DC> From you, Pustulation 1.
CG> Read you, when I read you,
DC> Gee, did you learn that from MENSA? How handy to look like the
DC> pompous ass that you are.
CG> My what fine language you use, when a blood vessel bursts.
CG> Try reading as opposed to flapping your lips and tripping over your
CG> tongue.
CG> As to pomposity, probably that is how it sounds to you, but then when
CG> I get angry I get pompous and polite.
CG> I do not have to resort to cursing and swearing, and the types of
CG> language that I associate with the start of a decent pub brawl, in
CG> order to get my anger across.
CG> Had you spoken the words above to me face to face, I can assure you
CG> that my upper body is more than fit and strong enough to take you on.
Ah. Threats of intercontinental physical violence.
The last refuge of the physically and mentally inept.
... "Hey, little mutant guy!"- Crow, "Gamera vs. Barugon"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
* Origin: A Little Corner in Time (1:106/113.0)
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Chris Green
|Sub: Chris Green
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:20:26
EID:5cdb 223a5a80
Chris Green, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to All
CG> From Maureen Green
CG> Chris is in hospital, I shall send his mail packet as it is, though
he
CG> normally edits out his more forthright language.
CG> It is unlikely that he will be doing either work or hobby messaging
CG> when he returns.
CG> They are going to knock out all of the trigeminal (sp?) nerve and
CG> remove one of a series of growths from his brain, the others cannot
be
CG> worked on.
CG> He will have to learn how to use the right side of his head, the eye,
CG> eyelid, mouth, tongue, chewing, moving the neck, moving the shoulder.
CG> There will be a large hole in the roof of his mouth. There will be
CG> damage to his eyes.
CG> Having read the rubbish in this packet, I suggest you talk about the
CG> right of the individual to choose when they want to die, and the
CG> available ways of doing so.
Anytime they want and any method that's not too terribly
messy.
... 3 AM where you are, but it's noon here in Boogerglob, Yugoslavia.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:25:35
EID:144c 223a5b20
Jonathan Fingas, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
Curtis Johnson
JF> those cults which recruits extremely gullible people.
CJ> Second chapter of John--didn't you read the Bible?
CJ> BTW, Dan doesn't belong to a cult. However, it's evident
CJ> that "You must belong to one of those cults which recruits
CJ> extremely gullible people."
JF> I know, I know... people keep reminding me. :-) I just haven't read
JF> that particular part for awhile... Bible study class has been covering
JF> the book of Luke. No, I don't belong to a cult. I'm a member of St.
JF> Luke's Lutheran Church in Ottawa, Canada.
For which, I'm sure, they're positively busting their
collective buttons.
... Appleton: more hopping mad than a pissed kangaroo.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: The Fickle Finger
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:27:47
EID:1706 223a5b60
Ed Mills, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Dan Ceppa
EM> 21 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Dan Ceppa to Ed Mills:
EM> GEORGE! WAKE UP!
EM> George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.
EM> Please talk to me.
EM> PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE??????
DC> Marilyn asked you to troll, not eviscerate yourself as
DC> bait, chum! ;)
EM>
EM> Oh, shit. I thought this was the Hara_Kiri echo.
Oh, shit! This isn't the Hara_Krishna echo?
... Even when you're running the world, you can't get off.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: dropping of names
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:33:25
EID:c57a 223a5c20
ROBERT CURRY, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to AL
SCHROEDER
MK> But then, to fundies, no sense makes sense, right, Al? :-)
AS> I guess so, Hector. I guess that's why Copernicus, Newton,
AS> Pascal, Guass, Mendel, Faraday, Maxwell, and Lemaitre were
AS> believers, and you should disregard anything they say as
AS> nonsense.
RC> One should certainly disregard any superstitious nonsense they may
RC> have been indoctrinated in, Al. That leaves us with the sensible
RC> things, only.
AS> And Boyle. And Lord Kelvin. And...
RC> Name dropping again? In the interest of a more balanced perspective,
RC> try a few names of those who didn't suffer so much from religious
RC> superstition mixed in with their contributions to society:
RC> Anaxagoras, Epicurus, Giordano Bruno, Christopher Marlowe, David Hume,
RC> Frederick the Great, Diderot, Comte, Feuerbach, Darwin, George Eliot,
RC> Mikhail Bakunin, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, Huxley,
RC> Ingersoll, Clemens, Nietzsche, Edison, Freud, Darrow, Pierre Curie,
RC> Marie Curie, George Bernard Shaw, Alfred Adler, H.G. Wells,
RC> Robert Frost, Albert Einstein, Bertrand Russell, Virginia Wolff,
RC> H.L. Menken, Julian Huxley, B.F. Skinner, Rudolf Carnap, Linus
RC> Pauling, Karl Popper, Corliss Lamont, Margaret Sanger, Joseph Campbell,
RC> H.P. Lovecraft, Jawaharlal Nehru, A.J. Ayer, Albert Camus, Isaac
RC> Asimov, John Chancellor, Frank Zappa, Gene Roddenberry, Carl Sagan.
RC> Others, still living: Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Piers Anthony,
RC> Margaret Atwood, Ingmar Bergman, Marlon Brando, John Byrne, George
RC> Carlin, Noam Chomsky, Arthur C. Clarke, Francis Crick, Richard
RC> Dawkins, Linda Ellerbee, Albert Ellis, Harlan Ellison, Anthony Flew,
RC> Larry Flint, James Forman, Bill Gates, Jack Germond, Prabhir Ghosh,
RC> Candace Gingrich (yes, reaated to *that* Gingrich), Whoopi Goldberg,
RC> Mikhail Gorbachev, Stephen Jay Gould, Spalding Gray, Bob Guccione,
RC> Joe Haldeman, Harry Harrison, James A. Haught, Stephen Hawking,
RC> Nat Hentoff, Katherine Hepburn, Jack Kevorkian, Larry King,
RC> Stanley Kubrick, Milan Kundera, Paul Kurtz, John Larroquette,
RC> Ursula K.LeGuin, Michael Martin, Todd McFarlane, Sarah McLachlan,
RC> Marvin Minsky, James Morrow, John Mortimer, Taslima Nasreen,
RC> Jack Micholson, Kai Nielson, Larry Niven, Camille Paglia,
RC> Neil Peart, Roman Polanski, Katha Pollitt, Paula Poundstone,
RC> Vladamir Pozner, W.V. Quine, James Randi, Christopher Reeve, Tom
RC> Robbins, Henry Rollins, Andy Rooney, Salmon Rushdie, Pamela Sargent,
RC> Arnold Schwarzeneggar, George H. Smith, Benjamin Spock, Howard Stern,
RC> J. Michael Straczynski, Uma Thurman, Ted Turner, Max von Sydow,
RC> Stephen Weinberg, Sherwin T. Wine, and Bruce Wright.
Hey!
Where's the "three Martins"?
... Even sliced VERY thin, baloney is never corned beef.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:46:26
EID:144c 223a5dc0
Jonathan Fingas, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to
David Worrell
DW> 20 Jan 97 20:22, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Glen Todd:
JF> You certainly don't have any proof that Jesus DIDN'T turn water into
JF> wine, feed 5000 with a lone basket of food, or walk on water.
DW> You don't have any proof that I do not have an IOU,
DW> signed by you, for $100,000. Present your proof, or pay
DW> up.
DW> The burden of proof lies upon the maker of the positive claim, moron.
JF> Yes, but can you prove that you do have an IOU? Guess not, hmm.
JF> The Bible is the only thing we have for proof, and I'm content to
JF> believe it.
So. let me venture...you've got a hot tub in your backyard
that's 10' across and 30' around?
... (desperately) The one without the gannet!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: Marty Leipzig
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: better?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 11:58:49
EID:cffa 223a5f40
David Worrell, camping in a desert canyon in a psilomelane-to, said to Marilyn
Burge
DW> 22 Jan 97 19:33, Marilyn Burge wrote to Jan deBoer:
MB> A simple ooooops! would have been sufficient, and would have
MB> cut down considrably on the signal-to-noise ratio.
DW> Why would one want to *decrease* the signal-to-noise ratio?
She likes static?
DW> Do you have any idea what a signal-to-noise ratio is?
... chirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirpchirp
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.30
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Call her Madame
|Date: 26 Jan 97 15:42:57
EID:a48e 223a7d40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7450f8f5
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7C09AD
On Jan 24 06:57 97, Judith Bandsma of 1:372/62 wrote:
AS>> Sure would. If it's email, al.schroeder@nashville.com.
JB> Just remember, JJ, if you send it to Al, it becomes HIS
JB> property and you can't share it with anyone else.
That's between him and the AssEnded Masters.
My only claim to it is that I downloaded it by picking
a file at random.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: absence of belief
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:34:32
EID:943b 223aa440
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c11c97a2
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacae9
On (24 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to ROBERT CURRY...
RC> Think about it. Order invites inquiry. That got the ball
RC> rolling.
AS> Inquiry is dependent on our presupposition that the orderly
AS> laws are out there to find.
No presupposition needed. The seasons follow a regular schedule,
as to the appearance of certain heavenly bodies. Birds fly in a
given direction at a certain time of year; in the opposite
direction two seasons later. The rhythms are there for anybody to
observe, no presuppositions needed.
... You can lead a fool to logic, but you can't make him think.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:49:20
EID:3d84 223aa620
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 80cff250
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb07
On (25 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> "Ask and ye shall receive that you gift may be full."
AS> And when two requests are contradictory, Marilyn? He's not a genie,
AS> and you are asking, not demanding.
MB> That's exactly why I regard the above as am empty promise (or,
MB> as I prefer, lie).
AS> Hmmm. Well, I don't find it so. I find it quite consistent with the
AS> rest of the Bible...but then, I don't read it is Alladin's three
AS> wishes to a genie.
I don't think it's about Alladin's lamp, either. But I DO
think that words have standard meanings that are available
to any sentient person who is able to read a dictionary.
What part of the two- and three-syllable words are too much
for you to handle, Al?
I even told you in another post how to get around the 'problem.'
All one has to do is follow the formula laid out by your master
in the 'Lord's Prayer,' and the problem ceases to exist.
But, if you insist on 'winging it' when you pray, you MUST admit
(if you're honest, which I doubt) that the scripture in question
is a farce at best, and an out-and-out lie at worst.
... Person+delusion = psychosis. People+delusion = religion.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: INTO MY PARLOR
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:56:14
EID:3afd 223aa700
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 d1667d34
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb17
On (25 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Roger Hunter...
RH> I just deleted a whole screenful of invective and insults between you
RH> two.
AS> Can hardly blame you.
RH> Don't either of you have anything better to do than waste bandwidth
RH> this way?
RH> Sheesh!
AS> Evidently not. I wouldn't mind an interesting talk with Curry about
AS> the constants. I would very much value his opinion on the
AS> mathematical studies mentioned in the notes in the ANTHROPIC
AS> COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE, for
AS> instance, which he is much fitter to judge than I.
He has been trying to tell you for months now that the whole
premise is hopelessly flawed. Even I can see that, and I
don't know an anthropic cosmoligical principle from a hole
in your head.
Unless you can narrow down the problem to the point where
you can get a handle on what odds you're actually dealing
with, anything beyond that point if mere blathering. Now
do you get it, or should I have Barney sing it for you?
... ... Imagine. 9,000,000 sperm and this shithead is the one who won.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:58:35
EID:93f0 223aa740
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 a8d56164
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb18
On (25 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Mark Kimes...
AS> Then there is no truth to it, or just a modified version? And
AS> doesn't that have implications for the meteor/asteroid/comet
AS> that crashed into Earth and may have signaled the end of the
AS> dinosaurs? Because I thought they were similarly using such
AS> an effect to block the sun, and cause ecological disaster
AS> even at sites far away from the impact. (Granted, that impact
AS> would do much more damage...)
The Earth has ice ages every so often, asteroids or no asteroids.
Everything appears to come in cycles, if you look at things from a
far enough distance. Given that, the dinos needed nothing more
than another ice age to end their tenure here on Earth.
BTW, those cycles I just mentioned are one more rhythm that is
present in a universe that is, after all said and done, chaotic,
but still rhythmic enough for the curious to want to explore the
rhythms, no presuppositions needed.
... I prefer to view humans as risen apes, not fallen angels.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:05:01
EID:f0e4 223aa8a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 51b48292
REPLY: 1:3603/210 278a368d
On (25 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to MARILYN BURGE...
RC> MB>> You realize, of course, that reincarnation is a mathematical
RC> MB>> impossibility, don't you? There are more people on the face
RC> MB>> of the Earth today than have lived on the Earth since the first
RC> MB>> homo sapien sapien stood upright. So, where do all the extra
RC> MB>> "souls" come from?
RC> From the Minbari. Don't you watch Babylon 5? :-)
MB> Nope. I'm not familiar with that one.
RC> Of course, they only account for the last thousand years or so.
MB> I don't follow. . . .
RC> Suffice it to say that the Minbari leaders believe that many
RC> of the souls of the greatest among them have been
RC> reincarnated as humans. Now consider Hindu theology for a
RC> moment: they allow for souls in all kinds of animals. You
RC> could say that as the numbers of other species are reduced,
RC> they are reincarnated as humans.
Now, there's a thought. But, since we have no way to do a census
on the animal life among us (descending all the way down to
amoebas and virii, I would presume), I'm still not convinced that
reincarnation is mathematically possible. I'm fairly certain that
as the human population has increased, the rest of the animal
population has decreased. If I'm correct, we still have a problem,
don't we?
... Creationist, 'eh? Now we've got to find someone fluent in stupid.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: ALL
|Sub: "...and a ?"
|Date: 26 Jan 97 12:34:08
EID:ee0e 223a6440
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 baba9cc2
"I'm primarily a theologian and then a ped... er, cook."
-Jeff "The Frugal Gourmet" Smith
Lon Mabon breathes a little easier today, knowing that, for a
little while, people's attention will be diverted away from
him and his thus-far well-concealed NAMBLA membership.
edweird
... PREROGATIVE: a sovereign's right to do wrong. (Bierce)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Al's deliberate delusions
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:20:14
EID:7857 223bba87
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c5d
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e0ef74
PID: FM 2.02
FR>>> ~*~ EVERYONE FROM THE SOUTH IS GUILTY OF INCEST.
FR>>> - Christopher Calabrese
as>> I don't usually comment on taglines, but what the hey, since it
as>> was obviously to get my goat. All I can say is that you just
as>> also maligned Robert Curry, David Worrell, Mike Hardy, and
as>> many another participants here.
RC> Oh, the horror of it! I feel so _maligned_. LOL!
dw> Am I gonna have to kick yer ass? :)
Would you please? I can't imagine the paranoia which went into
Al's belief that I tailor the random quotes just to piss him off. Such
thinking is too totally foreign. He must imagine us dirty little heathens
are constantly plotting against tender young fundies or something.
~*~ God is cool! - Thomas Baird
Yep. Three degrees Kelvin. - Tetzel
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: Go ahead, Lee, take the experiment: Jump. We all want you to.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:21:40
EID:dd01 223bbab4
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c5e
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 32e10a71
PID: FM 2.02
FR> The MGM Grand Hotel is a good place for you to prove that your deity
FR> constructs exist, Lee. Take the experiment. Go ahead. I'll pay you
FR> $100.00 to do it.
lw> I will pay _you_ (or anyone else) $100 if you can either 1)
lw> explain how the experiment is useful in corroborating or
lw> falsifying the theory I presented earlier, or 2) explain how
My guess is your answer is, "No thanks."
~*~ They sat down in the kitchen, where the morons started pulling out
bibles, books, pamphlets, and other assorted implements of destruction.
- Kelsey Bjarnason
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:23:12
EID:daf0 223bbae6
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c5f
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 feb86501
PID: FM 2.02
Gt> Remember how you were recently saying that Wild is a wife abuser?
JS> Never said it.
DC> Bull-fucking shit you didn't, you misogynistic bastard.
js> Evidence???
FR> See? You _are_ a Promisekeeper.
ijs> Evidence?
FR> Yep. Disgusting, aren't you?
js> Actually, if being disgusting is evidence of memebership,
js> you must be the president of the organization.
My. That retort was witty, huh?
So... Tell me about this organization. What exactly do you know about
what I've been up to lately? I will caution you to either think carefully
about your answer else to refrain from doing so entirely.
~*~ I'm not a liar David the freak! Please show any evidence where
I lied, David the dick head! - Bill Wolff
ROTFL! That'll sure make people forget you lied! - David Rice
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Email address?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:24:47
EID:aa10 223bbb17
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c60
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e155f7
PID: FM 2.02
Do you have an Internet email address? If so, would you give me a copy
of it please?
~*~ The Cosmic Star Goat told us you would not provide evidence.
-- Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bored about Quantum Lunacy
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:35:15
EID:b748 223bbc67
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c61
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 27c79880
PID: FM 2.02
mb> Is anybody else as bored with Quantum
mb> Deities and the "constants" as I am?
There are actually comments by particle physicists complaining about New
Age lunatics like Lee W. and Brawley in a number of articles, magazines,
and books. Leon Lederman constantly complains about such idiots and one
of his best tirades against such clowns is in "The God Particle."
mb> We definitely need a new batch of fundies.
We've needed new fundies for decades. They haven't come up with anything
unique in a long time.
~*~ There are many who are really troubled because low, debasing thoughts
come into the mind, and are not easily banished. - Phil Morrison
They become Christian clergy, in fact. - Fredric Rice
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:44:55
EID:cc4a 223bbd9b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c62
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e999ae
PID: FM 2.02
ky> Accept it or not, Christianity is about love..
ky> Not quite a Nazi belief..
My guess is you know nothing about world history and the history of the
Christanic death cult. Would you like some reference materials to help
you overcome that slavery-induced ignorance?
~*~ Shit, gotta run. there's data that needs to be faked.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:55:11
EID:6192 223bbee5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c63
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32eaa15a
PID: FM 2.02
dc> The suit alleges that Patti Smith learned of her husband's
dc> "pedophilic compulsions" in the 1970's, when he was serving as
dc> an *ordained* *minister* and *chaplain* at the the University of
dc> Puget Sound. [As co-defendant] [s]he failed to take steps
dc> to protect minors.
Yes I had heard about this. In fact I had known for some time that the
Christian minister was a pedophile child mollestor. He had a history of
having to pay off the parents of the few children who worked-up enough courage
to speak out -- to the tune of something like 1.2 million dollars so far.
And yet even with a history of child molestation, the priesthood did nothing
to either remove him from where he could reach children or to get the cops
involved -- something any _normal_, ethical person would do.
~*~ All you non-believers may think you have won by getting me to
quit this board... - Wade Williamson
Hardly. We win when you learn to think. - Kelsey Bjarnason
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Christian terroruists this month
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:56:23
EID:4ac4 223bbf0b
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c64
PID: FM 2.02
I haven't read very much about the latest wave of Christian "pro-life" terrorist
activities. Has these bombings and attempted murders simply not made it
into the news or have I simply missed it all?
~*~ WARNING! Please go to your places and fasten your seat belts. A very
possible fundy implosion is imminent.... This is NOT a drill!!!!
- Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 27 Jan 97 23:59:31
EID:443b 223bbf6f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c69
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a56a
PID: FM 2.02
JS>>Pagan scum on my side?????
jk> Just like fundies say that Jim Jones and David Koresh aren't of
jk> thier ilk? A true fundie seems to think that no matter how vile
jk> and evil thier own actions they are 'saved' and thus forgiven.
And yet their victims' forgiveness (or not) never factors into their pretentions,
huh? I've yet to see True Christian Jim Bakkker even _ask_ for forgiveness
from the hundreds of thousands of ignorant gullible sheep he swindled of
millions of dollars. But he (like all other Christanic fundies) have no
difficulty pretending their gods forgive them.
~*~ When I seen him on TV, I'd mostly watch his motions, just to see how
he acted. The same voice. I said "God, what a freak. Kinky. Here he
is up there preaching for all this money and when I see him, he's
kinky and cheap."
-- Debra Murphree refering to Jimmy Swaggart
(Penthouse magazine, July 1988)
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:01:35
EID:677b 223c0031
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6a
REPLY: 2:250/366.22 32e627fe
PID: FM 2.02
>>> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
FR> Yes.
pd> So what do you call someone who has no stance for or
pd> against religion and someone who actively debunks it?
Usually I would call them by their given names.
pd> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
Yes.
~*~ The milieu here is like a gang rape by a bunch of maladjusted
teenaged boys whose hormones have gone mad. - Jesse C. Jones (Heathens)
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:05:10
EID:bafc 223c00a5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6b
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32de0edc
PID: FM 2.02
>>> bull turns tail at zulu slaughter ritual
>>> [Pretoria News, 6 January 1997]
FR> You could claim that the Sun will rise in the
fr> East and I wouldn't believe you, Steve.
sh> Non sequitur.
FR> Argument from ignorance. Anything you say is automatically suspect
FR> due to your previously evidenced need to lie about even the most
FR> mundane of claims.
sh> ... Fredric Rice's mindless ad hominems continue
That's one way to avoid the uncomfortable truth. And yet for some mysterious
reason you continue to persist in avoiding answering questions honestly.
Do you honestly think that you derive some benefit for lying about even
the mundane? Do you honestly think that your gods award you brownie points
for being a willfully ignorant robotic slave to men?
~*~ A phone call to fido headquarters seems to be in demand.
- Brian La Plante
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be ignorant?
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:07:19
EID:f484 223c00e9
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6c
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32e3d23b
PID: FM 2.02
DC> Try answering both this time.
sh> I've answered both of those, and neither of them was about fucking.
sh> So how about you answering the question for a change.
FR> Do you honestly think you're winning brownie points with your gods by
FR> what you're doing? Do you honestly think your gods are amused?
FR> Just look at what Christianity has turned you into, Steve.
sh> Aye, and just look at what the lack of
sh> it has turned you into, Fredric.
Now compare the results. The inability to think and reason simply because
you have been programmed to believe your master's deity constructs don't
wish you to think and reason is probably nothing you can be blamed for --
you were doubtless drafted into the death cult by parents or friends and
had no choice.
Do you honestly think that your gods are amused by your ignorance and buttfucking
dishonesty?
~*~ It's what the world needs most: a God that TASTES GOOD. - J.J. Hitt
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianity, buttfuck
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:09:42
EID:3900 223c0135
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6d
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32e3d23c
PID: FM 2.02
ijs> Hmmm...evidence? (that they are Christians and
ijs> that I am ignorant, a buttf**k or a bigot)
FR> Yes. They even hate most of the same groups you hate. They're just
FR> as oppressive of women as you would like to be and they hate blacks
as
FR> much as your Lon S. Mabon personality does. They also fear Jews like
FR> some of your other personalities do.
sh> And no doubt when you're Fuehrer anyone who fails to hate the
sh> groups you hate will have their fat rendered for soap and their
sh> skin turned into lampshades.
Adolf Hitler was a Christian just like you, Steve. And his S. S. were required
to pledge undieing devotion to Christianity.
And you're a willing part of the hate and bigotry that Christianity is.
The KKK, Aryan Nations, Promise Keepers, the Sword and the Cross, and every
lunatic self-professed "militia" in the United States are _all_ Christian
organizations, run and populated by Christians just like you.
Now why would anyone join an evil cult if they're not themselves evil?
~*~ Take a hard look at the Grand Canyon. try to explain
that through evolution. - Freddie Cash
---
* Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Email address
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:11:33
EID:9c1d 223c0170
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6e
PID: FM 2.02
What's your email address, doc?
~*~ You apparently want the whacko flowers and light conference
down the hall. Just follow the trail of drool, and check your
soul with Winters at the door. - Hector Plasmic
---
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:17:12
EID:ed84 223c0226
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0d973c6f
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 baba9cc2
PID: FM 2.02
em> "I'm primarily a theologian and then a ped... er, cook."
em> -Jeff "The Frugal Gourmet" Smith
I'm trying to get information on all of his previous victims. It seems
that he has accumulated over 1.2 million dollars in out-of-court settlements
so far but that number appears to be on the rise as more instances and victims
are uncovered.
em> Lon Mabon breathes a little easier today, knowing that, for a
em> little while, people's attention will be diverted away from
em> him and his thus-far well-concealed NAMBLA membership.
"Mabon" is actually Jim Staal -- it's one of his racist personalities.
I was reading, by the way, a bunch of homosexual newsgroups this evening
and was surprised by the number of people who defend pedophile sex with
consenting children. There were personal accounts by people who claim to
have engaged in sex with adults when they were in their early teens yet
I can't help but consider the claims to be lies designed to make people
believe that there are willing children.
~*~ Not to mention the redoubtable Zip-Loc principle. When it
turns green, quit already! - Don Martin
---
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:57:16
EID:c78a 223aaf20
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec198c
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e828cb
JF> And I guess 2/3rds of the world's population accepting a religion
JF> voluntarily,
DW> Two thirds of the world's population accepts your
DW> religion? Really? Got any evidence for *that* claim?
Well, 1/3rd. A few people have corrected me on that. Still, that's
a LOT of people, and a lot more than the next-largest religions, Islam and
Judaism. Go get a "Top 10 of Everything" book and check it if you're still
skeptical.
DW> Which "confirmed miracles" would these be? Who did the confirming?
DW> Be specific.
I've got a recent message in this forum which lists 3. Good enough? The
confirming was done by the church and doctors.
JF> Why are you IN this forum anyways? Got a bone to pick with the
JF> church?
DW> The name of this echo should have been a clue to you, moron.
I mean, as in a specific grudge, like losing at a church bingo game or being
kicked out for some reason.
JF> Proof IS evidence.
DW> You do not get to redefine words to suit your purposes
DW> here, little boy. Proof is only relevant when
DW> discussing mathematics or liquor. We deal in evidence
DW> here. Got any?
Go check that Top 10 book and that 3 miracles message. Happy now?
DW> Am I automatically against an organization responsible
DW> for the burning of both books and people? You're damn right I am.
DW> ---
DW> * Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
Apparenlty, you're living in the past, not 1997. In case you hadn't noticed,there
aren't too many Salem witch hunts or Nazi book burnings going on today.
As I repeat time and time again, it's the PEOPLE who are responsible. The
teachings very rarely play a real part.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:05:58
EID:c78a 223ab0a0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1b96
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e828ff
DW> 22 Jan 97 21:23, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DC>> Do you have any proof that Easter Bunny doesn't exist?
JF> Yes, the time when I peeked into a closet downstairs and discovered
JF> my Easter chocolate was there. :-)
DW> That's not proof, moron. Maybe the Easter Bunny was
DW> just using your downstairs closet as a convenient storage place.
DW> Try again.
So what is proof? Witnessing the event itself? Hmm, guess you can't prove
that Jesus doesn't exist, then.
Go grab your safety blanket and pacifier if this gets you angry. Your intelligence
obviously suits them.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:08:24
EID:c78a 223ab100
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1c28
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e82973
DW> 22 Jan 97 21:26, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:
DC>> Let me state: You are a fundy fool and revel in the shit you
DC>> strew.
JF> By the way, you know how you said changing peoples' words can get
JF> you kicked out of this forum? Well excessive (and very pointless)
JF> profanity is another.
DW> The fuck it is.
DW> The moderator's name is Styx Allum. I'm sure he'll give
DW> you a copy of the echo rules if you ask nicely.
DW> ---
DW> * Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
By the way, if you asked him the way you do, you'd get kicked out. He might
tolerate profanity, but he won't tolerate a pain in the butt.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:09:22
EID:c78a 223ab120
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1c62
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e829cf
DW> 22 Jan 97 21:48, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Curtis Johnson:
CJ>> The National Guard's coming--go arm yourselves with two
CJ>> .22 pistols? It makes no sense whatsoever.
JF> That isn't what He was expecting. He WAS
JF> expecting to be taken away
JF> though.
DW> So much for that "omnipotence" bit, then.
DW> ---
What's He suppose to do? Smite the guards with lightning bolts? Jesus
is trying to SAVE people, not kill them!
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:11:10
EID:3df7 223ab160
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1cce
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e82b0d
JB> Now, are you accusing the BIBLE of lying?
JF> Whoops...
DC> Isn't it a shame that the non-theists know your very own
DC> bible better than you do?
Yes... for John 2:15. I'm sure you haven't even read half of what I have
though!
JF> Heck no, I'm not accusing the Bible! However, I am trying to point
DC> You should, as that's what you believe. You defended it and
DC> found out that you were wrong.
-I-, not the Bible, was wrong. You seem to be mentally uncapable of sorting
out things like that.
JF> out that Jesus didn't actually whip the people themselves. He just
JF> drove them off.
DC> With a whip, child. Do you want to get struck by one? Or, did your
DC> godling use a ten battery cattle prod to make them move?
No, I don't - which is why those people left. If Jesus had had malice
in His heart, then he would have actually hit them or killed them!
You claim Christianity is bigoted... talk about hypocrisy! You're obviously
totally intolerant of religion. Religious people are HUMAN BEINGS, and
are just as good and bad as any non-religious person.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:16:06
EID:3df7 223ab200
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1df6
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e82b64
-> On 22 Jan 97 16:23:54, Jonathan Fingas got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Do you have any proof that Easter Bunny doesn't exist?
JF> Yes, the time when I peeked into a closet downstairs and discovered
JF> my Easter chocolate was there. :-)
DC> Now you know where your "god" comes from.
Now I know what you consider the real world.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:17:38
EID:3df7 223ab220
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1e52
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e82cfb
DC>
DC> Nice death cult you believe in.
JF> Now if you would actually have bothered to understand Christian
JF> theology (which you obviously don't and are mentally incapable of),
DC> Nice try, xister, but I was probably a former xian before you
DC> were ever born.
And what validation does that give you? Screwed up visions of reality (as
in, yours) don't necessarily become true over time.
JF> the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE God.
DC> Count them, Jonathan. There are three of them. You can
DC> count past one, can't you?
And as I said, you obviously don't understand Christianity. They are all
God, just in different forms. Your hand doesn't look and act exactly like
your foot, does it? There you go.
JF> manifestations of Him. Obviously, you have very little basis for your
JF> claims.
DC> Why did your godling have to pray to his daddy? If they
DC> were one, the tall tale that he did is is completely meaningless.
What He was doing was, to make a comparison, being the right hand telling
the left hand what it's doing. Surely your body parts don't act on their
own impulses? They're coordinated.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:23:36
EID:3df7 223ab2e0
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec1fb8
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e83111
JF> church in the books of Acts and afterwards were all Galileans?
DC> Non-responsive, Jonathan. Look at your religion and see that
DC> there is only a single "real Jew" among the followers.
Then who are the others? Gee, they must've been Gentiles, or other non-Jews.
Guess you just contradicted your "bigoted religion" story!
JF> me a break. Why do you think the apostles preached in Rome and other
JF> areas of the known world?
DC> That was because of the real founder of your beliefs: Saul.
Where's your proof/evidence that Saul was the founder? So far you haven't
brought a single shred to the table. More hypocrisy on your part, I see.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: HYPOCRITICAL PEOPLE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:25:46
EID:7183 223ab320
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32ec203a
-=> Quoting Jonathan Fingas to Dan Ceppa <=-
JF> By the way, you know how you said changing peoples' words can get
JF> you kicked out of this forum? Well excessive (and very pointless)
JF> profanity is another.
RH> In HolySmoke? Hahahahahahahahaha!
RH> I think you want the bunnys and light echo. It's down the hall
RH> and to the left.
RH> Leave while you can, fool.
Found out, profanity IS accepted here. However I think profanity
is pretty stupid, since it's usually an attempt to make up for a poor vocabulary
(I could call you a rapscallion, for example) and it's not exactly a sign
of conviction in your ideas.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Fane
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Jan 97 01:17:57
EID:d399 223b0a20
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32e6cc5a
MSGID: 1:170/853 32ec0310
22 Jan 97 21:26, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:
JF> By the way, you know how you said changing peoples' words can get
JF> you kicked out of this forum? Well excessive (and very pointless)
JF> profanity is another.
Fuck, shit, god damn, bitch, cunt, ass, bastard (did I forget anything?)
:)
Please let me know exactly when you kick me out of this echo. Thanks.
--- {Mnemonic Oubliette} ---
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|From: Fane
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Slavery and freedom the same?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 01:33:32
EID:9470 223b0c20
MSGID: 1:170/853 32ec0605
04 Jan 97 12:33, George Mooth wrote to Rod Swift:
Hi.
First off, I've seen you in here for a LONG time, but all you've done is
post messages and not reply to them. That's considered more than a little
rude by most people. In FidoNet and Internet, it's called "spam," and is
much looked down upon. By the way, what made you finally start to post?
GM> We are all in mental salavery. You just have to choose who you want
GM> to be the slave of. You choose Satan and all the sick immoral posts
GM> you put in here. Satan uses you every day in this conference. Talk
GM> about mental slavery - He's got you!
You said before in one of your "spams" that following your god is "the only
freedom." Now you contradict yourself by saying we're slaves to your god
or your anti-god, Satan, no matter what. Please explain how freedom and
slavery are the same thing.
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 12:29:00
EID:8d97 223a63a0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 11a6451d
JF> DW> No, Dan's not "rich." I doubt any of us here (Brawley's
JF> DW> protestations notwithstanding) qualify for the "rich"
JF> DW> label.
JF> DW> You, however, are pretty goddamned pathetic.
JF> No, it's Mr. Ceppa who's the pathetic one. Half of what he says is
either
JF>A) Groundless and ignorant, and B) not something they'd play on TV.
Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you make your choices by what would
fit the lowest common denominator medium of television. You make
yourself even more pathetic with every post.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "For Reply, send a self-abused stomped elephant to..."
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 26 Jan 97 12:29:00
EID:e5a0 223a63a0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2062e55e
SA> JH> Feeling any guilt yet?
SA> KW> Well, he should, to have all those women (no, she said people,
SA> KW> didn't she...), uh people starving themselves to death because he
SA> KW> won't bed them. Gee, it looks like David's about to become the
SA> KW> Holysmoke God of Sex, or something along those lines. Any
SA> KW> volunteers to go on a hunger strike to qualify for David's Bed?
SA> No fucking way. ;) Besides, I don't know if I could even get to
SA>85lb if I starved to death...
You aren't the only one. I think the last time I weighed that
little I was fourteen.
SA> Sometimes I wish we could get him to eat chocolate pie.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Get back when you a) grow a uterus and b) get pregnant"
J Ba
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: WARRING CHRISTANIC FA
|Date: 26 Jan 97 12:29:00
EID:fc2a 223a63a0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org e180dab5
RH> KW> What does running a computer have to do with whether or not I have
RH> KW> some sort of obligation to care if you believe the same thing that
I
RH> KW> do? Or are you trying to tell me that you think that your computer
is
RH> KW> a goddess?
RH> KW> You do, of course, have some sort of reason behind your inclusion
of
RH> KW> computers in this discussion beyond the observable phenomena of
male
RH> KW> fascination with little boxes that go 'beep'?
RH>Sure, it relates to your account of the problems you have been
RH>experiencing therewith.
Roger, dear, the major problem that I've been having with my computer is
that my husband *will* take it apart and play with it. I don't have to
'believe' that Bear can screw up computers with joy and abandon--I have
practical knowledge of this. He's done three since xmas.
RH> KW> Or is this an exhibition of male "logic"?
RH>Uh oh! I sense immanent bloodletting.
Men!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Go forth and hassle all nations."
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NEVER BE GODLY
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:0fe3 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 63eed26b
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 12:56:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> DC> DC> KW> That's a bra'd indictment.
DC> DC> DC> DC>Well, Maiden, you are holding to Form.
DC> DC> DC> KW> You wouldn't want to say that I was strapped for a reply.
Only if
DC>it DC> DC> KW> was a long line .
DC> DC> DC>I see you are sporting and have it tied up ti(gh)t.
DC> DC> DC>At least you are not letting it all hang out, or over, at
DC> DC> DC>the case may be.
DC> DC> KW> That was flat. Indeed, it sucked. But, I'll continue to nurse
you
DC> DC> KW> along, no sense in leaving you sagging.
DC> DC>You're just trying to milk this one out. Do I have a choice of
DC> DC>flavors or are they the same on either side?
DC> KW> Only if you're padding this thread that you're skimming. We'll
see if
DC> KW> you churn over a new leaf.
DC>I'll try to keep you a-breast of the latest developments.
Jiggling me in for the cream will make you my bosom buddy.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "God is an asshole"--MB
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:a2f1 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d43d97f8
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 10:15:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KW> impossibly prickly corners. At the moment he can't quite make up
his
DC> KW> mind wither he wants to play footsies with Rod Swift, or beg Lynda
to
DC> KW> tie him up and paddle his naughty little rump until it's pink and
DC>Sounds like he's a minister. Maybe we should warn Gwenny's
DC>little kids about him.
Tiger Eyes has already met him. I don't think that she needs to be
warned, Steiny is so bloody obvious that he's be hard to miss.
DC> KW> Well, for some reason he finds my web page 'frightening'. Yes,
DC> KW> he's a lightweight.
DC>Ohhh, such a frightening witch you are! However, he may be thinking
DC>that you are your evil twin sister, Katherine Withersnight.
One of the Wicked Witches of the SouthWest, no doubt.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Goooooooooooood Morning Vietnam." - A Cronaur
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Leviticus
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:d1e6 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ce0fe056
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 12:56:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> RV>KW>RV>RS> RS> Because he was feeling a little cross that day?
DC> KW> DC> RV>KW>RV>RS> DC> You nailed that one right on!
DC> DC> RV>KW>RV>RS> RS> Well, just so long as you don't hammer that one
home .
DC>. . DC> RV>KW>RV>RS> ML> One little pun and you run it to the Hilti.
DC> DC> RV>KW>RV>RS> Wood I do something like that?
DC> DC> RV>KW>RV>Depends on the point, your driveing home.
DC> DC> RV>KW>That was tacky!
DC> DC> RV>Only if you frame it.
DC> DC> KW> Screw it!
DC> DC>I can pin it down:
DC> DC>These pun threads are really beginning to be a staple item for you.
DC> KW> That miter have have something to do with it, for I do enjoy the
DC> KW> drill. -!-
DC>What rout'er you taking? Will it be a long boring one? (Punning
DC>is a vise of mine, tool.)
No, I prefer to lathe a solid foundation.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "I asked what you knew, not what you believed." - MacLeod
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:a606 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 697dc6a0
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 12:56:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> KW> A cake and bull story.
DC> DC>Is that an unsteered steer in a bakery? Be heiffer how you answer
that!
DC> KW> How kine of you.
DC>You lost me on that one... What's a 'kine'?
Archaic plural of 'cow'.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "I'm getting in touch with my inner bitch" Nicole Hollander
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:8717 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a920c0f5
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 12:56:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC>_is_ baptism for the woman. Or, in the case of Kenny Wiens,
DC> DC>the girl.
DC> KW> Dip their balls in holy water?
DC>In Ken's case, do they make baptismal fonts that small?
Why do you think that their women are instructed to mind their
thimbles?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Is that seat saved?" "No, but we're praying for it."
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:7a48 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 904f24b0
DC>-> On 23 Jan 97 12:56:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> KW> Are we about to have a religious war--David the Lord of Thin Sex
vrs
DC> KW> Preston, God of Twinkies? Where does the Mighty Avatar of the
DC> KW> Fishbowl fit into all this? And who does the Holy Bald Bear represent?
DC>The answers to these questions, and more! Stay tuned for the
DC>next installment of "As the Gods Turn". (For additional
DC>background, tune into _Gods' Hospital_ and _The Days of Our Gods_)
So the xmas story is just a retelling of the 'Luke and Laura' story line
form 'General Hostel'?
DC> KW> Help! I'm confused! Or is this armageddon (the xtains having missed
DC> KW> the boat over who the warring participants are)?
DC>Don't worry. Friday's show is always a recap of the week before.
DC>Monday's always tells you what happened last week.
I think that it was a cliff hanger and they canceled the series
over the summer.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Land of milk and honey?" Great...I'm a lactose intolerant
diabe
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:8729 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a90cc0e2
DW>23 Jan 97 17:56, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW> KW>> them. Gee, it looks like David's about to become the
DW> DW> KW>> Holysmoke God of Sex,
DW> DW>> You're not the only God around here. :P
DW> KW> It has not yet been determined if David is the God of Good Sex or
the
DW> KW> God of Bad Sex.
DW>Is there really such a thing as bad sex? I've never had it. :)
Ah, but have you given it?
Well, as Gods define their own attributes in the minds and words of
their followers, all you have to do is move someone to declare you the
God of Good Sex.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people 01/
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:dce9 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b81c4076
JF> DM> So? An even greater number of people have believed the
JF> DM> earth to be flat without managing to make it so.
JF> DM> Incidentally, I know it is an alien concept to a Christian,
JF> DM> but _do_ try to avoid lying for the lawd whenever possible.
JF> DM> A peek into any reasonably good almanac will reveal that
JF> DM> less than 1/3 of the world's population identifies itself as
JF> DM> Christian: your doubling that figure counts as "bearing
JF> DM> false witness" which, Moses informs us, will win you no
JF> DM> points with your imaginary superfriend in the sky.
JF> First - God ain't imaginary. I've seen and heard too much on this
planet to
JF>believe otherwise. It's probably true that "only" 1/3 of the world's
JF>population is actively Christian, i.e. goes to church regularly and so
on.
JF>But another 1/3rd is what I'd call semi-Christian, that is they believe
in
JF>God, Jesus and the whole thing, but do little to actually adhere to the
JF>principles or show their faith in some way.
Numbers and sources for those numbers, please. You can back this up,
can't you? Unless you're going to try to claim that you know enough of
the world's population personally to make an eyewitness claim?
JF> DM> Now, whether this 1/3 is _voluntarily_ in the church or
JF> DM> merely there because, like driving on one side of the road
JF> DM> or another, it is what they were born into, is another
JF> DM> question entirely. Nearly the whole population, essentially,
JF> DM> of Italy is "Christian", but you would surely be straining
JF> DM> to term that condition meaningfully "voluntary." Further,
JF> DM> indoctrination may produce behaviors that appear to be
JF> DM> voluntary ones, but are not so in any real sense, any more
JF> DM> than a computer chess program castling at a certain point in
JF> DM> the game may be so called, however much such a move may
JF> DM> _look_ voluntary.
JF> More than likely, yes, these people were born into already-Christian
JF>families. However, as was begun in the 1960s and onward, they don't
JF>necessarily stick with the faith. Some decide (for some reason) to switch
JF>religions, or even give up on it altogether. It depends on how strict
the
JF>familty is in regards to their faith, and what denomination they hold
to.
JF>Catholic families are notorious for strict upbringings.
JF> JF> the fact that Jesus DID exist,
JF> DM> Did he really? Extra-biblical corroboration for this?
JF> DM> You could be the first to present some.
JF> Yes, He did. Various unearthings have uncovered people who were involved
in
JF>Jesus' life and times - not necessarily major figures (like Matthew &
Mark),
JF>but people involved in the burial and so on. But for me one of the more
JF>important proof is, why would people (especially several people, not
just one)
JF>create a holy Messiah who dies? Few religions have a Messiah that has
come,
JF>let alone who is still active.
JF> DM> Please cite three such miracles and present the
JF> DM> "confirmation" for each. Who "confirmed" these events? Did
JF> DM> they have any interest in such a confirmation that might
JF> DM> interfere with their objectivity in the matter? What
JF> DM> methodology did they employ? How did they eliminate
JF> DM> extraneous variables? How did they confirm that the
JF> DM> condition corrected or ameliorated by the "miracle" was
JF> DM> genuine to begin with?
JF>Miracle #1 - One woman, because of cancer, had to have a leg amputated.
The
JF>resulting infection swelled her other leg and caused her a lot of pain
and
JF>illness. However, on a vacation to Poland, she visited a major cathedral
JF>(presumably the one Pope John Paul worked at) and prayed for healing.
The
JF>next day, voila! No swelling whatsoever, and a visit to the doctor's
reported
JF>no signs of the infection.
'One woman'? What was her name, address, and phone number? Who was her
doctor? Where are her medical records? Can you produce this woman, and
her medical records? For that matter, why did her *other* leg swell?
You haven't even managed to be clear about just what this supposed
miracle was, much less shown that the only possible explanation was a
miracle.
Next case, please.
JF>Miracle #2 - A man, while on a Florida boating trip, fell overboard,
without a
JF>life jacket and in rough seas. He started to sink, and called on God
to help
JF>-sure enough, he felt a "lifting" sensation right then and he surfaced.
Again, what was his name, what date this this supposed event take place
on, what was the name of the boat? And what is so miraculous about
water currents?
JF>Miracle #3 - A teenage girl was visiting the Grand Canyon and wanted
to get a
JF>better view. She hopped the rail and started to scale down. But she
lost her
JF>footing and started sliding down fast, until she suddenly stopped - she
felt a
JF>holding sensation, even though she had little to hold on with and the
slope
JF>was near-vertical. She stayed that way until help came and she was lifted
JF>out.
No name *again*. As this miracle supposedly happened over a
longish span of time, why is there not a hint of any form of physical
evidence. You have any of this evidence? Anywhere? Or did your 'god'
(Continued to next message)
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Not a morning person' doesn't even begin to cover it!
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: THE ALIGNMENT LIST
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:0437 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 22ab08e9
RC> RV>> { Harpy shield in place & tested }
RC> RV>> [ Pies bounce off/avoid chocolate base materials ]
RC> LB> Kat, look!! Our plan to keep them from eating ANY
RC> LB> of the chocolate is starting to work!
RC> BB> Are the harpies trying to monopolize the chocolate now? ;)
RC>_NOW_? Where have you been?
RC>Only those few of us who suspected their plans from the very
RC>beginning have any chocolate left to speak of (not that I would
RC>dare to speak of it in their presence, of course -- oops!).
Where's the beef, uh, chocolate, Robert????
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Quick, Jesus -- to the Godcave!" - Hector Plasmic
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: feed
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:30c9 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ef6811d0
RC> RC> I can deal with messy. Some definitely positive possibilities
RC> RC> there. Then again, some potential danger, as well. Proceeding
RC> RC> with trepidation.
RC> KW> Just think of it as a rite of passage. ;)
RC>Is there any cheese at the end of your maze, Madam?
Why? It seems to me that they run that maze for the fun of it. Hmmm,
maybe a little essential oil of chocolate might improve the times,
though.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "Well, you can't just let nature run wild..."-W.Hickel
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Promisekritters
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:42:00
EID:60ae 223a9540
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 7f99747c
RS>KW> Yes, I have, and I do agree with you. I've also never to date met
a PK
RS>KW> that I didn't end up deciding was a weak chinned ninny with major
RS>KW> problems concerning his masculinity.
RS>They are nancyboys, aren't they :) They're so threatened by
RS>women that they have to get together in a group to affirm their
RS>manhood. They are also anti-gay... :) Go fig.
I think that they are most of all afraid of themselves.
RS>KW> RS>Bill McCartney is truly evil! But what else could you expect
RS>KW> RS>from a knuckle-dragging college football coach who has turned
to
RS>KW> RS>preaching?
RS>KW> He's found him self a truly successful get rich quick scam.
RS>100% on the mark, Dear Katherine...
Find a man's greatest fear, and exploit it.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * "God has no religion"--Mahatma Gandhi
--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:59:45
EID:600d 223b5f60
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 24 Jan 97 12:32am, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
MB>>> to organized churches.
P>> Nope.. Against governmental control of the church, sure.. But not
P>> against the church itself..
BB>> Sure about that?
BB>> Thomas Paine:
BB>> "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian,
or
BB>> Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions,
BB>> set up to terrify and
BB>> enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit..." (1)
KY> That is not the church, but rather, manmade churches.. I am speaking
KY> more of Christianity itself..
There is a big difference between a single Christian and a church. At any
rate, the same quote would apply to Christianity in general. Even organized
religion in general. Diety constucts are human inventions, no more or no
less. Behind the bunnies and white light theology, there are far more
mistanthropic ulterior motives.
KY> Actually, I tend to agree.. Many churches could be good, but sometimes
KY> when a denomination is involved, they get too big for their britches..
What, in particular, is good about churches?? Give me some examples.
Becke
... HolySmoke: A drive by shooting on the Information Superhighway.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 297
* Silver Xpress V4.01
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: RE: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:59:49
EID:443f 223b5f60
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 24 Jan 97 12:37am, KEN YOUNG wrote to BECKE BOYER:
BB>> Women are permitted to speak only "in tongues" during regular services.
BB>> disturb the fundamentalists, who claim to follow the
KY> Actually, of the churches I have been in, it seems that men and women
KY> speak in tounges in church, pretty equally..
Not in any of the tongue speaking churches *I* have been to (mostly
pentecostal and assemblies of god). I've found, in my own observation,
that
women did the speaking in tongues 90% percent of the time, and the men did
the interpretation nearly 100%.
KY> How is it not following biblical directives? Paul says women are not
KY> to speak in church.. Well, one could argue that it is not the woman
KY> that is speaking, but God.
Any evidence of this?? Concrete evidence, m'dear.
BB>> Bible to the letter. The
BB>> the woman not to teach or to exercise authority over men...."
KY> What is meant there is that women should be careful that they don't
let
KY> pride and vanity get the better of them..
And men are not subject to the same standards?? My, my...how misogynistic.
KY> Men and women obviously were made differently, so doesn't it stand to
KY> reason that they might have different roles in life?
No, it doesn't. The only thing that really sets us apart are genitals.
Feeling threatened because women are moving in on your precious "territory"?
BB>> Now, time for ME to rant. Less than a say so?? Women
BB>> underdog, merely on the basis of gender is beyond me.
KY> Possessions? Now, let's not get carried away.. Less rights than men,
KY> yes, but not to that degree..
No, possessions. First example that comes to mind is in the Old Testament,
Leviticus 15:19-30
19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she
shall be put apart 7 days: and whoever toucheth her shall be unclean until
the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall
be
unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And
whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in
water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whoever toucheth and thing
that
she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be
unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon
she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24
And
if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be
unclean seven days, and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. 25
And
if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her
separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days
of
the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation; she
shall be unclean. 26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue
shall be unto her as the bed of her separation; and whatsoever she sitteth
upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation 27 And whosoever
toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes and bathe
himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 28 But if she be cleaned
of
her issue, then she shall number to herself 7 days, and after that she shall
be clean. 29 And on the 8th day, she shall take unto her two turtles, or
two
young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle
of the congegration. 30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin
offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make
an
atonement for her before the Lord for the issue of her uncleanness."
Okay, it's obvious they're talking about menstruation here. Which, BTW,
(just
in case you're really _this_ stupid) is something a woman has NO choice
about. She gets it once a month from puberty until menopause unless she's
pregnant or has a hysterectomy. According to the above, a woman must spend
up
to 15 days a month in seclusion JUST FOR HAVING HER PERIOD. And, to top
it
all off, menstruation is a sin??? C'mon now..If you follow the whole creation
bit, you ascertain that God created us with the ability to bear children,
thus also insuring we're going to menstruate. Then, you turn around, and
according to God's word, something HE is responsible for is suddenly a sin.
Hmm...sounds almost contradictory. Either your God fucked up when writing
the
bible or it was written by men, intimidated by the fact that women bleed,
and
so frightened of it, that rather than deal with it like modern men do, they
sent the woman away and made her atone for her "sin" when she got back.
That's not control??
Then, a little later in Leviticus, we see this:
Leviticus 19:20
"And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondsmaid, betrothed
to
a husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given to her; she shall
be
scourged, they shall not be put to death, because she was not free"
In order to be "free", one must be bound. Bethrothal usually involved no
choice by the woman. Thus, women were treated as possessions, to be passed
around freely. Notice also that the woman was the one punished, not the
man.
More misogynistic double standards. Nice.
More on possession (this time, children) Leviticus 26:45
"Moreoever of the children of the strangers that do soujourn among you,
of
them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat
in your land, and they shall be your possession."
Let's not forget Numbers 12...where God gives Miriam leprosy because she
DARES speak against the fact that Moses took another wife.
Or, one of my absolute FAVORITE examples of this typical bullshit in your
bible, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, where God commands that a woman MUST marry
her
rapist.
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay
hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay
with
her shall give until the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she
shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away
all
his days."
Nice fucking religion you've got there. There are plenty more where those
came from, care for my to go on??
KY> Maybe because it isn't a religion of suppression, but rather, a belief
KY> system of freedom.
A system of freedom? What a fucking joke. Where's the freedom in it?
BB>> Children are not possessions. They have free will, just like you or
I. A
BB>> irregardless, they're their own person.
KY> They may have free will, but they do not have the same rights as
KY> adults.. That is because they are not fully developed, and need time
to
KY> find out what type of person they are. That being the case, someone
KY> needs to make sure they are doing what is right, and to a point,
KY> control them.. AFter all, you wouldn't let a kid do whatever he
KY> wanted, would you?
How the hell are they supposed to find out what type of person they are
when
someone such as yourself would spend all your time shoving your religious
dogma down their throats?? It wasn't until I was *far* away from my parents
that I began to find out who I really am, what I want out of life. And who
is
to determine what is "right"? "Right" is a very subjective term. What I
consider right may be something you consider abhorent. A parent's job is
one
more of guidance than of control. You can let your child know your thoughts
on something, but in the end, it will be the child making the decision,
and
the child suffering the consequences of whatever decisions they make. That's
how they learn, m'dear. What you are proposing is downright child abuse.
BB>> dogmatic bullshit pushed down my throat, diety
BB>> big mouth, SHE would be
BB>> the one to be punished for it.
BB>> One can only hope you don't have children. I pity and fear for them
if you
BB>> do.
KY> Not all forms of Christianity are as dogmatic as some.. And just
KY> because your step-father greatly abused the Bible for his own purposes,
KY> does not mean all Christians are like this.
Yet, my step-father was held up as a shining example of Christianity while
myself, my mother, and my sister were shunned from the congegration. Why
is
this?
KY> If and when I do have children, I will love them greatly, and I
KY> certainly wouldn't use the Bible to try to excuse my inhuman acts..
Then what WOULD you use to try to excuse your inhuman acts?
P>> church itself has no right to control others, but if that church is
P>> going according to God's wishes, then they are doing nothing wrong.
BB>> And what exactly are "God's wishes"?
KY> What the Bible says..
The Bible is the be-all and end-all of God's wishes?? (i.e. anything in
there
is law?)
BB>> (Note, I don't believe in creation, but I am playing the devil's advocate
BB>> here). If God is omni*, why the hell would he create
BB>> beings that were flawed
BB>> in the first place?? Why would he create the ability to sin. Why would
he
BB>> allow evil?? And, if he were responsible for creation,
BB>> why would he set us up
BB>> for a fall in the first place?? Pretty cruel bastard if you ask me.
KY> Free will. He wanted us to have the freedom to decide to serve Him
or
KY> not, for ourselves..
But yet, in the Old Testament, those who were found not serving God were
put
to death. Some choice.
Becke
... *- You folks telling me that intolerance is a Traditional Family Valu
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 297
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/DB 1.58
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: RE: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:59:50
EID:6473 223b5f60
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 24 Jan 97 12:06pm, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
-=>> David Worrell spoke thusly to Roger Hunter <=-
DW>> I suspect you'll have to try harder than that. "Fat women are good
DW>> beasts of burden," would likely be a good start.
JB> Really? How you gonna get a fat woman moving if she don't wanna go?
Offer her some untainted chocolate..;)
Becke
... Possessor of a mind not merely twisted but actually sprained.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 297
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/DB 1.58
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: RE: BABBLING BULLSHITTER
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:59:50
EID:2b09 223b5f60
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 24 Jan 97 12:08pm, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
-=>> David Worrell spoke thusly to Curtis Johnson <=-
DW>> I don't think even Al's that stupid. While he might complain about
DW>> someone posting something he said in a "private" window, only a
DW>> complete moron would consider the text in an open IRC channel to be
DW>> "private."
JB> Yeah, Al's that stupid. Don't you remember that one of his biggest
JB> complaints about me was that I offered the LOGS (public ones) as well
JB> as his email to anyone who wanted them?
It's amazing that, knowing that, people don't choose their words
more carefully in IRC..
Becke
JB> ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
JB> --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
JB> --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
JB> * Origin: The Big Dog's BBS-Charleston, SC *803-769-6131* (1:372/62.0)
... Hindsight: when you see what an ass you've been making of yourself.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 297
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/DB 1.58
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
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|From: Becke Boyer
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: RE: DIG
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:59:50
EID:795c 223b5f60
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
On 22 Jan 97 08:21am, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to BRIAN SHREVE:
-=>> Brian Shreve spoke thusly to Marilyn Burge <=-
BS>> 1,000 or so. You be one wicked lady with a helluva mouth on ya!
JB>
JB> Beware! The Harpies have their eyes on you.
What about Harpies-in-training?? ;)
Becke
... Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
* Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 297
* Silver Xpress V4.01
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/DB 1.58
* Origin: Stimpy's Sandbox | Lemoyne, Pa | 717.730.8504 (1:270/722)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:08:47
EID:32d2 223a8900
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb8f9f
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:02:15, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> You liked "Zero, an....(whatever)...of your cunning?"
Of course I liked it. I wrote it!
JB> Try: "Limits: fictional things no rational being should tolerate."
I don't think I'll integrate that one.
JB> Zero: "Zeno's Bane."
Try this one instead: Zero: "Zeno's phobia."
JB> _I_ don't like artificially "closing" an infinite progression (or
JB> regression) by "taking the limit," either. I think it's cheating.
It's only cheating if it did not always work. As itas, I know
of no instances where that has occurred.
... Blessed are the pessimists, for they shall have backups!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:19:42
EID:32d2 223a8a60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb922e
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:06:56, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> noncollapsing geometries made of infinitesimal points, a piont also
JB> has no width, but more than one point _does_ have. In an ill-defined
JB> but intuitive sense, a "noncoalescence axiom" creates a width-concept
JB> only for _more_ than one point. However, obviously "zero points" has
Which is why I "add zeroes" in calculus.
JB> infinitesimal-using math 'number line,' "zero" is not a point (it's
JB> between points), but every _number_ is a point.
John, in basic geometry, you don't need numbers. All you need is
the concept of a point and straight lines connecting various
points. Numbers come into play when you need to go beyound
the basics of what simple geometry can do.
JB> So, you can be "right" and I can be "right" and everybody's happy so
JB> long as it's clear that when you speak, youspeakcontinuously, but when
TheonlyreasonIdo thatisbecause myfuckingspacekeysticks.
JB> I speak, I stop.between.words. (*grin*)
And yours types periods instead of giving you spaces.
JB> "I was so much older then; I'm younger than that now." Paul Simon
If he wrote it, it was the Byrds who sang it.
... And god said, "I meant a Bud Light!!!"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:34:04
EID:32d2 223a8c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb958c
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:15:00, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> obviously is neither an infinitesimal, nor "zero" --you can't
JB> subdivide zero and claim to be making sense.... (*grin*)
DC> I sure can, John.
JB> Division OF zero is as useless a process as division BY zero is.
Division by zero is undefined. However, for all intents and
purposes, that's what calculus does, or comes close to doing
by taking limits.
As to the dividing of zero: You have an empty can. You add
water to it (beer's to valuable to experiment with), 6 oz
if it's a 12 oz can. You now have a half-empty can. IOW,
you have 1/2 as much of zero than you had before. And,
yes, zero has been given a quality that is different than
simply says 0ö2=0
However, even in algebra, it is important to be able to
divide something into 0 to get a solution to an equation.
for example: 3X + 5 = 10/2
... +Origin: Brawley Quantum non-local White Powder Effect and Bordello
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:56:24
EID:32d2 223a8f00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb9ac8
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:20:25, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> So: what is "the absence of the absence of any thing?", and does it
JB> default "absolutely" to any 'thing?'
Absolutely. You have a something, what ever that something is.
Besides, 1 is not a thing and neither is 0.
See my message to Stuart Lumguair(sp?) on additional ways that
numbers "don't add up" but are correctly added.
... If Satan ever loses his hair, there'll be hell toupee.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic [1]
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:11:31
EID:b8e3 223a9160
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb9e53
-> On 24 Jan 97 07:26:50, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
JB> I think we've confused ourselves. I'm not saying that we can't
DC> Of course your have confused yourselves, John. You are claiming
JB> (*grin*) _Me_ confused? Look at that sentence....
I did. You were referring to yourself and using the 3rd person
plural. And to think that Staal is not alone with his MPS.
DC> that a god exists and can't back it up with real evidence.
JB> me a god and I'll believe in It." Hell, y'all believe in electrons,
JB> but you've never seen one, and y'all believe in your own
There's plenty of evidence for electrons, John. Just how to
you think that I read your message?
JB> scientists accept as "true." I want a _resolution_ that is neither an
JB> arbitrary and illogical _choice_ (such as an atheist or theist uses),
Then take your evidence and publish it.
... "Bother," said Pooh as he chanted the Black Mass.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:14:45
EID:dc21 223a91c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eb9f15
-> On 25 Jan 97 13:19:14, Jonathan Fingas got back to Don Martin
JF> First - God ain't imaginary. I've seen and heard too much on this
JF> planet to believe otherwise.
And, just where did god last appear and talk to you, Jonathan?
... The inspiration in the Bible depends on the ignorance of the reader.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:24:17
EID:dc21 223a9300
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eba151
-> On 25 Jan 97 13:19:14, Jonathan Fingas got back to Don Martin
JF> planet to believe otherwise. It's probably true that "only" 1/3 of
JF> the world's population is actively Christian, i.e. goes to church
Wrong, Jonathan. Barely 1/3 of the world is a xian of any type.
JF> regularly and so on. But another 1/3rd is what I'd call
JF> semi-Christian, that is they believe in God, Jesus and the whole
Which means that only about 1/9 of the population _may_ be
active xians.
JF> they hold to. Catholic families are notorious for strict upbringings.
JF> the fact that Jesus DID exist,
There are at least 2 atheists in this echo that are former Catholics.
DM> Did he really? Extra-biblical corroboration for this?
DM> You could be the first to present some.
JF> Yes, He did. Various unearthings have uncovered people who were
JF> involved in Jesus' life and times - not necessarily major figures
Archaeology has uneathered evidence that shows that Atlanta
was burned during the Civil War. Therefor, Scarlett O'Hara
lived!
JF> (like Matthew & Mark), but people involved in the burial and so on.
Which ones? Mary, by chance?
... David Koresh said he'd come out when he was ALL done, not WELL done.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 27 Jan 97 12:33:35
EID:2453 223b6420
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eca09f
-> On 24 Jan 97 07:06:33, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Part of the problem is that they are multiple guess tests. Easier
DC> to grade, but not very conducive for good academics. I dare say
DM> year," would have both teachers and students pass essay
DM> exams in the areas of interest. The problem with these, of
DM> course, is that they are not "standardized" (in other words,
That would be something different!
DM> when competency tests for certification is mentioned: I
DM> would guess that >50% of presently employed teachers could
DM> not produce a passable essay in their own subjects.
I've got a similar problem here with my daughter. She had a
teacher that felt that a research paper must be taken only
from the on-line encyclopaedia at school.
When I had my daughter provide additional information from
actual independent sources, he got on _my_ case. If he
sits now, he has a choice of which anal pore to shit from.
Three, in fact, as Tim, the school principal, (Yes, I'm on
a first name basis with him) tore him that one.
Unfortunately, as you note above, that teacher is still there,
due to tenure. But, my daughter will never ever have another
class taught by him.
... It was pity that stayed his hand. "Pity I've run out of bullets".
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Satan
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: COMEDY
|Date: 24 Jan 97 10:35:00
EID:6e14 22385460
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 0a2d70c1
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32e70153
Wasn't it 22 Jan 97 when "Al Schroeder" wrote to "Satan"?
So, Al... you said...
AS> I've ALWAYS suspected that the true Satan regards Satanists as
AS> clowns...thanks for the confirmation, your Infernal Majesty.
Sa> You are most welcome >:-}>
AS> Besides, it always helps to have friends in low places...
Friends, Al?
Hmmmm.....
From the quill of Satan...
... "`Hell.' What a fortunate word to choose." -- LaCroix
--- PPoint 2.02
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|From: Satan
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 24 Jan 97 10:33:24
EID:6f4d 22385420
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 beb77d62
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e6791a
Wasn't it 22 Jan 97 when "Don Martin" wrote to "Jonathan Fingas"?
So, Don... you said...
JF> Satan DOES lie.
DM> Have you any extra-Biblical (corroborating) evidence that this
DM> Satan person exists? He must do that before being able to
DM> either lie or tell the truth.
Believe it or not, We exist ;-)
From the quill of Satan...
... Jesus Christ: Imaginary Playmate to Millions of Adults!
--- PPoint 2.02
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|From: Satan
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 24 Jan 97 10:35:46
EID:b42a 22385460
MSGID: 1:134/67.666 7c2492f9
REPLY: 1:3603/210 24555d90
Wasn't it 21 Jan 97 when "ROBERT CURRY" wrote to "GEORGE MOOTH"?
So, ROBERT... you said...
GM> Your master is satan.
RC> That stupid fuck? Satan can kiss my ass, and if he shows up,
RC> I'll be happy to tell him so.
How brave your fingers are, Robert ;-)
We will find better things to kiss...
From the quill of Satan...
... Christianity is not a religion, it's an industry.
--- PPoint 2.02
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al schroeder
|Sub: False analogy#4
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:50:30
EID:dcce 223b0640
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebfbd6
CHRS: IBMPC 2
PID: FleetStreet 1.18+
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
AS> Sometimes my children get hurt, also. It is not my will, and the
AS> hurt's still there. Often from something THEY decided to do.
AS> But they don't turn on me and demand, "How could you let me go
AS> out and hurt myself!"
An absurd analogy. Unless you're an all-knowing god, you don't know in
advance your children will get hurt.
When the all-knowing god does nothing to stop victimization, even
though he full well knows, in advance, that it will occur, that makes
your god a cruel, evil, sadistic S.O.B. Anyone who worships such a
creature must have similar tendencies.
If you have advance knowledge of a person committing a crime, and do
nothing about it, that makes you an accessory before the fact, and a
criminal also. A religion that admires such behaviour is despicable.
When the proponents of a (supposed) moral and ethical religion
continually engage in deceptions, such as false analogies, to promote
that religion, it is obviously evil.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Save yer kids - kill 'em!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:29:00
EID:8a9a 223aaba0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e95
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 24 Jan 97 08:07:44 Al Schroeder wrote to Roger Hunter...
AS> For that matter, every Christian hopes to be resurrected someday.
AS> If we look at it that way, there would be no shame in killing a
AS> Christian, no murder, since they would live again someday...
AS> Uh oh.
AS> (Feeling like the guy in the Western who looks around and sees
AS> Indians poking out of the top of the hills surrounding him at every
AS> side...) Why do I get the feeling that was the WRONG thing to say in
AS> this echo?
RH> Because it IS! Kill your kids, Al, it's for their own good. Learn
RH> what self-sacrifice REALLY means.
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
Note that when OTHER PEOPLE's kids are killed, why, they've been 'saved'
by god!
Yet, Al is unwilling to save _his_ kids!
Chalk up another lie fer the lard!
.JdB
* "BINGO!"..and sister Mary wins the mink stole!
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Shortening
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:29:24
EID:f2dd 223aaba0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e96
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 09:55:06 Al Schroeder wrote to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Lose his arm? But even here, he did lose his arm. He jsut had it
AS> re-attached. (John Wayne Bobbitt lost his penis the same way, for
AS> a time. Unfortunately, it was stitched back.)
Deut 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut
off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
That's double jeopardy for Bobbit. I think I've asked this before, but
here's your chance again, Al.....let's say a young christian soldier
fighting for judaeo/christian Aamerica steps on a land mine and gets
wounded in the family jewels and has his privy member cut off.
In gratitude, your christian god bars him from church and heaven!
What kind of god _is_ this you kneel in front of?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Kavorkian God
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:28:18
EID:6b44 223a8b80
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e97
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 19:51:36 Al Schroeder wrote to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Yes. Much the same as if I pray, "Don't let me ever die, God," I
AS> don't expect it to happen. I do believe in an afterlife, but that's
Gee, has the prize been changed? There used to be a choice of two
destinations - the harp muzac lounge, or the carnal barbeque.
Are you telling us it's now the harp lounge or DEATH?
Could you provide evidence of god authorizing you to make this change?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MYOB
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:43:08
EID:408b 223a8d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e98
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
AS> Actually, I pray to help people...and then pray for strength to
AS> make sure that prayer is not the ONLY way I help those people.
AS>
By doing so, you are interfering with the work of the lord.
After all, "the lord helps those who help themselves," so
when YOU help them, they are no longer helping themselves, and you are
thus blocking help from the lord.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Another deception...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:45:30
EID:089f 223a8da0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e99
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 19:51:36 Al Schroeder wrote to Dan Ceppa...
AS> Hmmm. Suppose someone told you they had invented a new machine
AS> that would bring you back to life in three days...but they would
AS> only use it on you if you would volunteer to be tortured and
AS> horribly executed first. Would you do it?
This is yet another absurd analogy. Since your (imaginary) Jesus
is really god, and god is allpowerful, he can easily avoid any pain.
As a matter of fact, he has the power the fake the entire thing, without
anyone being the wiser. With such power, it would be indistinguishable
from reality. A god, possessing such power, and not using it, would be
defeating his own purpose, stupid, and inefficient.
Since you have claimed your god observes efficiency in his
communications, it is only reasonable to extend that efficiency to other
activities.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: unThinking not
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:31:14
EID:1bb8 223aabe0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 19:51:36 Al Schroeder wrote to Dan Ceppa...
AS> My problem is, Dan, as horrible as I think the rape is to God
AS> (and certainly is to me) I can't think of a good alternative
AS> which would not either crush the human spirit
Duh. Your god gives man the power of reason and a natural curiosity, and
then forbids him to use it, i.e. don't eat the fruit of the tree of
knowledge. Talk about crushing the human spirit!
AS> (put us in a divine dictatorship)
WE'RE IN ONE, in case you didn't notice! Whenever your divine dictator
throws one of his temper tantrums, we get wholesale destruction,
plagues, floods, and eternal curses. Saddam Hussein's human rights
record is much better than that of your god, Al.
AS> or encourage sadism and cruelty
What could be more encouraging to sadism and cruelty than the christian
god???????????????
"Slay them all! Spare none! Keep the virgin girls for yourselves"
Right outta YOUR bible Al. Do you babbling fools ever actually read it,
or are you all like Laurie Appleton?
AS> (by negating the
AS> consequences of cruel deeds) which would warp the human spirit
AS> into something crueler and wilder.
AS> I will not deny it is
AS> troubling to me, as it is to any thinking person.
Any THINKING person would suggest negating the cruel deeds, so the
consquences wouldn't be necessary. Can't your god THINK, AL?
AS>I think it troubles God, as well.
Trying to garner some sympathy for your god who is an accessory before,
during, and after the fact in every atrocity?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: No preachee, no flogee
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:13:16
EID:371c 223a91a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 18:36:36 Al Schroeder wrote to Roger Hunter...
AS> Whipping with a Roman scourge and being tortured on the cross for
AS> hours isn't sacrifice?..
Not if you're into S&M.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al LIES again!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:19:48
EID:e4ea 223a9260
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9c
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 18:36:36 Al Schroeder wrote to Roger Hunter...
RH> And don't tell me about "paying the price", because God set the
RH> price. It is not a natural consequence, it is an assigned punishment.
AS> It is indeed. As the legislature sets the consequences of arson;
AS> and someone commits arson...they go to an assigned punishment.
AS> (But it still remains the arsonist's choice to do the arson.)
AS> But in this case the legislator decided to give the arsonist a
AS> second chance, and went to jail FOR him. And any arsonist can
AS> claim it...if they ask.
Another Bullshipping analogy!
According to christinsanity, EVERYONE IS BORN AN ARSONIST, because
ONE individual a zillion years ago, did what is natural
for man. They are GUILTY no matter how saintly their lives have been,
and doomed to eternal searing unrelenting AGONY. However, those who lead
the most despicable, selfish, greedy, abominable lives can, at the last
moment, say, "Yup, I believe in the proxy punishment," and go to eternal
paradise.
Obviously, if you have outgrown little red riding hood reader and your
IQ has more than one digit, you won't exactly live in fear of this
priestly threat.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al decides what Jesus knows!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:32:46
EID:a6ff 223aac00
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9d
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 18:38:26 Al Schroeder wrote to Mark Kimes...
AS> The remote avatar was addressing the main database, rather.
MK> So your gods are computers, Al? Again, and still, it makes no sense.
MK> Hector's Law strikes again.
AS> Hector's quick judgements strike again, rather. Obviously an
AS> infinite mind cannot be downloaded into a finite brain. Nor is
AS> there any reason for Jesus to know the depth of the solid oxygen
AS> snowfall on Pluto, or whatever.
When did you decide what Jesus needs to know, Al? Have you achieved
godhood in your own mind?
AS> Jesus is like a seperated probe
AS> seperated from the mother ship, who will download what is
AS> experienced back into the main database.
WOW! From a god riding on donkey, we've rocketed into the space age!
But Al, your god _IS_ omniscient, omni-everything - basically, he's
everywhere! So, what in hell would he need a 'probe' for???
HP>> But then, to fundies, no sense makes sense, right, Al? :-)
AS>
AS> I guess so, Hector. I guess that's why Copernicus, Newton, Pascal, Guass,
AS> Mendel, Faraday, Maxwell, and Lemaitre were believers, and you should
AS> disregard anything they say as nonsense.
F07 Argumentum ad numerum
This fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It
consists of asserting that the more people who support or believe a
proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct.
For example:
"The vast majority of people in this country believe that capital
punishment has a noticable deterrent effect. To suggest that it
doesn't in the face of so much evidence is ridiculous.
"All I'm saying is that thousands of people believe in pyramid
power, so there must be something to it."
Hey Al, you're only allowed to use the same fallacy once a week in
holysmoke!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bifurcated gentle farts
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:49:28
EID:16f1 223a9620
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 18:40:16 Al Schroeder wrote to Marilyn Burge...
AS> Well, (A) I said it was a good idea, I didn't say it had to be
AS> the proper formula always...I'm sure God hears all prayers. But
[...SNIP]
MB> Then pray tell, just what DO the plain English words mean "ask and
MB> ye shall receive"? And how are those words any different than not
MB> putting the "promise" in the text at all?
AS> Well, the plain ARAMAIC words have different connotations. Ask
AS> and you may be sure of a response, and that it will be good. It
AS> may not be today, or tomorrow. It may be different from what
AS> exactly you prayed for, or it might be better. But in all cases,
AS> it is the best thing He wants to do for you. OTOH, it is clear
AS> that God does NOT heed the prayers of the wicked. John 9:31. "Now
AS> we know that God heareth not sinners;"
Well there ya go, Al - even YOU told us recently that WE'RE _ALL_
SINNERS, (including yourself). So, Al, if god don't heed the prayers of
sinners, then he doesn't heed anyone's prayers, does he!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Deception 101
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:56:50
EID:889d 223a9700
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1e9f
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 18:40:16 Al Schroeder wrote to Marilyn Burge...
AS> No one doubts that there are individual differences between
AS> the Gospels, for instance, as you would expect from several
AS> different accounts of the same event.
DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS?? But Al, it's ONE ACCOUNT - The "WORD of GOD"!!
But when it becomes embarrassingly obvious that the crap therein doesn't
tie with infallible supergod, why, we just change the story to
'different accounts from mere fallible humans', right Al?
The old shell game, the conjurer's and illusionists deception.
Do the fundy dance Al. When those who claim the right to set moral and
ethical standards engage in deception, it is time to follow the lead of
the Spanish.
AS>It doesn't invalidate
AS> the accounts, just shows they have different viewpoints.
Nah...it just shows priests make lousey proofreaders.
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Causality Al
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:35:14
EID:7d39 223aac60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1ea0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
Hello Ronald,
On 25 Jan 97 12:20:00 Ronald Vass wrote to Al Schroeder...
RV> The point I was trying to make, and the one you ignore, is
RV> humans will fight against the system in power for any
RV> idea/thought whatever. Your and other reglious groups harping on
RV> someperson dieing or being mistreated for a cause, is NOTHING. A
RV> real NOTHING at all as evidence. More so as evidence for a god.
Perhaps we should worship cancer - it's a cause so many die for!
RV> Better evidence is needed Al. Much better. Now an axe head
RV> floating that science or a magician can't solve, might help. Got
RV> a 1990's version of same ? No !!!!!! ... didn't think so.
Odd no one shows up on Benny Hinn to have their non-floating axe cured.
RV> Get a better god, boy_child. That one wimps out too easy.
Isn't it odd how, after all the attention the birth of the god/human
got - guiding stars, magi bringing stuff to smoke and riding camels for
weeks to see the event - suddenly there is no interest again until he's
what, thirty-some? Now, if it was known that some woman in Toronna was
going to give birth to a half-human/halfgod, or half-human/half-alien
baby, why the world would be agog to know every detail of that
individual's life. Especially in the 'biblical' times, what with no soap
operas, and the samll town atmosphere, he should have been the very
centre of attention! But, no - not a word! It's difficult to believe
that he would have suppressed the miracle ability so long. We should
expect to read at least about some practice mini-miracles, or the early
ones that went awry. It's hard to believe that chapters advising against
pissing against the wall should take precedence over "Jesus - the early
years".
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Bacteria and Conception
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:43:12
EID:b1db 223a9d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1ea1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 11:11:48 Mimi Milstein wrote to Al Schroeder...
MM> Pius IX Giovanni Mastai-Feretti instated that dogma in 1870
MM> during the Vatican I Council.
MM> Also, during his reign the doctrine of The Immaculate
MM> Conception was promulgated (1856).
"Immaculate conception".....does that mean they showered and changed the
sheets first?
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Genie lite
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:21:58
EID:bf6b 223aa2a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1ea2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 25 Jan 97 19:22:20 Al Schroeder wrote to Marilyn Burge...
MB> "Ask and ye shall receive that you gift may be full."
AS>
AS> And when two requests are contradictory, Marilyn? He's not a genie,
AS> and you are asking, not demanding.
There you go Al, limiting yer god's power AGAIN! Inferior to a genie?
MB> That's exactly why I regard the above as am empty promise (or,
MB> as I prefer, lie).
AS> Hmmm. Well, I don't find it so. I find it quite consistent with
AS> the rest of the Bible...but then, I don't read it is Alladin's
AS> three wishes to a genie.
It appears you don't read it at all!
.JdB
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|From: Jan deBoer
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 26 Jan 97 21:01:34
EID:2d56 223aa820
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:229/622.0 32ec1ea3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
On 24 Jan 97 22:16:04 Al Schroeder wrote to Roger Hunter...
AS> that allows him to know her, is derived. The human mind in the
AS> act of knowing in the sense of making inferences without direct
AS> observation is illuminated by the Divine Reason.
Illuminated?.....is that why they call it the DARK AGES?
Divine REASON - HAHAHAHA...oxymoron of all time!
You mean divine DOGMA.
DIVINE REASON still has the sun orbiting the earth, doesn't it?
Bruno found out all about DIVINE REASON!
.JdB
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: It'sa gooda cheza!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 23:47:26
EID:cc72 223abde0
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7A215D
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebed4d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
JD>> Phonetically, gouda cheese = gooda cheese.
JB> Again no. Phoenetically 'gouda' is pronounced kh (gargle sound) owda.
Around here, we just call it "Old Dykebreaker."
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Covenant People
|Date: 26 Jan 97 23:53:44
EID:23c9 223abea0
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7A2162
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebf015
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
JB> There's a school here in upstate SC where you can go for 6 weeks to
JB> learn to play the bagpipes.
Really? According to the cultural myths it takes seven years.
I suppose one could learn the theory underlying the nine-note
range of The Pipes in a few weeks, but the training to pull
off even the basic grips, burrels, and throws takes years to
instill the psychomotor control neccessary to accomplish them.
That's like saying once you can play "chopsticks" you can play
the piano. In the pipe band in which I learned, an outstanding
student could be expected to graduate from the practice chanter
to real pipes in maybe two years, at which time she would then
begin her training.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:04:18
EID:d388 223b0080
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e999ae
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebf201
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
P>> Well, I must say, you must have a pretty good imagination to come up
P>> with an analogy like that.. There is a bit of a difference between
P>> Christians and Nazis,
DW>> Is there?
KY> Yep.. In fact, one cannot be the other..
KY> Accept it or not, Christianity is about love.. Not quite a Nazi
KY> belief..
You poor, pathetic, ignorant bastard. You condemn people for grouping
violent xtians in with nonviolent ones. Do you not know enough
history to realize that in pre-war Germany, Nazi was equivalent
to Republican?
Any decent family, common-sense-oriented voter in Germany that
helped bring Hitler to power would have simply said that as events
unfolded, Hitler and the SS were Not-True-Nazi's. Just like you
with your Not-True-Christian, you sheltered moron.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:08:56
EID:f7b9 223b0100
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e99a06
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebf242
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ken Young to Dan Ceppa:
Pa>> Nope.. That is all symbolism..
DC>> And as it the rest of your book.
KY> Nope.. Most of it is as is..
And just who decides what is TRVTH and what is symbolic? You?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:10:52
EID:67ca 223b0140
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e99af6
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebf2d8
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
KY> That is not the church, but rather, manmade churches.. I am speaking
KY> more of Christianity itself..
Would you describe for us then, the church? I mean, the church
as Christ instructed it to be. No references from Paul. Well?
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: That's it then.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 00:31:28
EID:5e59 223b03e0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32ea61bb
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ebf7ca
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DR>> ==PAY ATTENTION LYING SHIT:==
LA>> Consider yourself ineligible for further correspondence
LA>> unless you make an appropriate retraction.
DC> I guess he told you, David. I'm sure it's simply eating you
DC> up that Appletoon won't reply to you anymore.
Just goes to show what can happen when you let yourself
go to pot. It's "LYING *SACK OF* SHIT." Laurie has his
standards, even if they have no registration on any
scale of ethics.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: giggle snot
|Date: 27 Jan 97 13:46:30
EID:cb0c 223b6dc0
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 0b6a19e3
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ecb209
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
About a message of Ed Mills to Rod Swift:
RS>> I believe that laws like that are sound. :) Publishers of hate
RS>> material that inspire others to crime should be accountable for
RS>> their role in the crime.
EM> Unfortunately, by enacting such laws, you're entrusting the
EM> government with the power to repress any writing it sees as a
EM> threat. A dissenter foments civil unrest by exposing corrupt
EM> elected officials and is imprisoned for it, using that same
EM> law.
If we could just make bullshit illegal, we could eliminate
half the laws we have, not to mention some offensive people.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:35:34
EID:35de 223a9c60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74531d26
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 7bcdc097
MG>> The prayer question is logs more difficult to perform.
MB> I STILL say it's impossible. You've got two groups, one that the
MB> committee memebers pray for, the other that are given the same
MB> level of care, but no committee members are praying for them.
As a scientist, I hate to admit to impossibility. when I say that it would
be logs more difficult to perform, I mean as near to zero possibility as
can be without being zero.
If someone could show me a way to do this difficult experiment, I'd be happy
to see it done.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: FAQ!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:39:38
EID:162a 223a9ce0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 745322dd
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 5e2e246d
No, you said "stockard" but I layed carol on you just for fun.
EM> The "Stockard" got edited out, for some reason. Not
EM> Carol.
EM> Now I have to go puke again.
EM> Did you see "Kingpin?" There's a funny scene where
EM> Harrelson
EM> hugs porcelain after screwing his hideous landlady for
I almost never go to movies.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:41:40
EID:38ba 223a9d20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74532b42
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 8a64e573
MB> Yes, I know. When I was pregnant with Louie, I had a nurse tell
MB> me that being RhNeg was no problem; it was the RhPos pregnant
MB> women who had to worry about their babies being all right. I
It's a good thing that there are hospital labs around. If you are typed
negative and the cord is positive, then you get Rhogam, no matter what some
idiot nurse says.
MB> RN's have traditionally been glorified scrub women. Why a man
MB> would want to join the profession is beyond me. Or, come to think
MB> about it, what a woman would want to join the profession is ALSO
MB> beyond me.
There are some fine, intelligent RN's that I have met over the years. There
are many who know their job and pick up plenty of knowledge along the way.
The problem is that they are trapped in a place where they have to follow
written orders. There is, ideally, no room for independant thought. That's
the problem. Too many fall into that rut. The ones that are too smart
to, go on to other things besides patient care.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Brawley's Bait Shop
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:45:45
EID:5fa1 223a9da0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 745330c9
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 7dbb46f3
RS>> John Brawley's Quantum BSE-infected Butcher Shop :)
JB>> Define "BSE," please?
EM> Bovine something-or-other encephalopathy (mad cow
EM> disease).
Bovine Sphingoform Encephelopathy..Mad Cow Disease is something to worry
about. We can't find the DNA that drives it.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: The Fickle Finger
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:47:12
EID:0755 223a9de0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 745332c0
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 9d9a6dce
EM> George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.
I've always wondered what this "personal savior" bullshit was about. Is
it something like a deoderant?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:51:06
EID:9f19 223a9e60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74533d19
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacae8
AS> another might pray for a male harem, a third might pray for
AS> unlimited power. What will be really interesting if some of
AS> their prayers are contradictory. (Look at any war, for
AS> instance.)
Saddling your almightly with humanity again? Tsk, Al...you'll be sent to
the little room in hell reserved for non believers.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Of threats of Hell...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:56:39
EID:d6dd 223a9f00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74534924
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb24
MK>> exist (outside the human imagination). Ergo, you don't seem
MK>> to be warning
AS> Do tell me the experiments that determine that. Absence of
AS> evidence is not evidence of absence. In fact...although
Do you need to look at every corner of the universe to see if there ian
existant pink hippo?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:58:16
EID:967d 223a9f40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74534c6e
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e99a6a
KY> But God is not human.. He is perfect, and just the fact that many
KY> of us don't see that, shows how very imperfect the human
KY> race is.
Perfect? Why does he starve people to death?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Darrow Nonsense!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:59:14
EID:a7b6 223a9f60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74534e7c
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32ea65de
DC> That goes without saying, Laurie. It's about time you
DC> noticed it.
Why are you wasting time on this moron?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Another molesting xian
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:00:54
EID:f774 223aa000
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7453539a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32eaa15a
DC> 'FRUGAL GOURMET' EMBROILED IN ABUSE CHARGES
I'll have to wait and see on this one. While Smith drives me crazy with
stuff other than his religion (which he is very light on in most of his
shows), lies get told on a regular basis.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: File Thirteen (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:22:23
EID:a1ef 223b2ac0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec3c11
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 6687c8df
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Jan 97 16:19, Ed Mills wrote to Sue Armstrong:
SA>> I don't know much about military aircraft, but I recently saw
SA>> "Broken Arrow" and something about putting a B-2 in "stealth
SA>> mode" just seems fundamentally wrong somehow. Click a button and
SA>> it magically disappears from radar. Nope, doesn't seem right.
EM> Sure it's right. Where have you been? The Romulans invented it clear
EM> back in the late sixties. True, it wasn't until quite a few years
EM> later that our own Federation got their mitts on a cloakable bird of
EM> prey, but thank goodness it happened before Ronnie took office.
EM> Otherwise his brilliant defense plan might have been the subject of
EM> widespread mockery instead of the shining success that it was.
Damn, I missed your posts.
If you leave us again, I'll be forced to send my black helicopters after
you.
David Worrell
Field Marshal, New World Order Expeditionary Force
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Baubles
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:28:04
EID:2b7b 223b2b80
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec3d21
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a572
PID: GED3 2.5
21 Jan 97 16:14, Joseph Keenan wrote to Gwenny The Pooh:
GTP>>> That's what I meant. Another clue is patchouli oil.
JK> Patchouli oil? Either Pagan or a dead-head .
And in both cases used to cover the funk that results from not bathing nearly
often enough.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: David Giles
|Sub: . [1/3]
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:35:10
EID:32a2 223b2c60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec3f2b
REPLY: 1:225/360 588672c8
PID: GED3 2.5
23 Jan 97 21:16, David Giles wrote to Chris Green:
CG->> 8. Foreigners are all regarded with suspicion, especially those
CG->> from Countries which claim to speak English - India. America and
CG->> Australia are 'old penal colonies' and 'dumping grounds for
CG->> ultra-right wing Puritan fanatics' so what can you expect....
DG> How do you feel about Canadians?
Second-hand brits.
CG->> Empires are not cheap to run, as your Country will soon find
CG->> out.
DG> The Yanks haven't the foggiest idea about this. Good show!
Jealous because you pathetic whiners can't even afford the attempt?
DG> They have little respect for anything other than Americans.
And who should we respect, buttpimples that can't even manage to keep *Spanish*
*fishermen* (unarmed ones, at that - unless trawlers have suddenly started
sporting 5 inch guns) from poaching their territorial waters?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:38:37
EID:73b5 223b2cc0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec3f83
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 efab330e
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Jan 97 15:09, Ed Mills wrote to Mimi Milstein:
EM> I was horrified to see the following sign at Freddie's the other
EM> day: "You are old enough to buy alcoholic beverages if you were
EM> born on or before this day in 1976."
Depressing, ain't it?
The cigarette signs are even worse.
---
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|From: David X. Worrell
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:45:00
EID:6710 223b2da0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec415a
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 bb7e03a4
PID: GED3 2.5
26 Jan 97 09:08, Marilyn Burge wrote to Al Schroeder:
MB> that the message I sent were sent privately in order to help
MB> him avoid embarrassment.
Really? Not because you were replying to netmail, then?
That's goddamned hilarious, Marilyn.
MB> It was his inability to see that he
MB> was embarrassing himself that was self-destructive.
There's really no need to dance so at this point, Marilyn. You've already
shown that I pressed your buttons without even trying.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: KISS
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:47:56
EID:5917 223b2de0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec41b2
REPLY: 3:640/375.1 32e32d3b
PID: GED3 2.5
20 Jan 97 02:30, Mark O'Neill wrote to J.J. Hitt:
MN> FWIW, I've been a KISS fan for over 20 years.
And this is supposed to impress us?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:50:36
EID:ae7e 223b2e40
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec4253
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org df830e78
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Jan 97 16:50, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to David Worrell:
DW> KW>> Safety in numbers, David. She doesn't want to be staked out
DW> KW>> like a goat in a tiger trap.
DW>> If it looks like a goat, and acts like a goat... :)
KW> See yourself as a tiger, do you?
Who, me? Nah, I'm just a li'l mouse. :)
---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:59:31
EID:eb7f 223b2f60
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec4493
REPLY: 1:3603/210 26c448bb
PID: GED3 2.5
24 Jan 97 13:31, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DW>> While fire is the primary requirement for technology,
RC> Are you sure about that?
"While fire seems to be the primary requirement for technology, once things
like opposable thumbs and sufficient brainpower are taken care of by biological
means..."
Better?
I admit I am operating from a very small statistical universe. I am, however,
open to new data.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:53:34
EID:59e5 223b2ea0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec4326
REPLY: 1:3603/210 278a3688
PID: GED3 2.5
25 Jan 97 18:47, ROBERT CURRY wrote to DAVID WORRELL:
DW>> Satan wanted you to say that.
RC> Jesus wants you to wash your face.
And I'm supposed to listen to a pathetic creature who allegedly allowed
himself to be crucified for the likes of Laurie Appleton?
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:55:15
EID:d2d8 223b2ee0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32ec43a1
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e9ecdc
PID: GED3 2.5
24 Jan 97 19:55, Don Martin wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> First Century." I can't remember the author's name, but the book
DM> Might that be:
DM> 930.5K: Klingaman, William K.
I think that's the one.
DM> I have had a number of names of late, but the name-callers never
DM> seem to last very long around here.
Someone at the fundy-mill must be using shortcuts to save on expenses. You
just can't seem to get good workmanship these days.
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|From: Josef Berg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 27 Jan 97 12:22:06
EID:9c12 223b62c0
MSGID: 1:342/1.2 32eca056
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e5d1de
Good Morning, Rod!
Wednesday January 22 1997 16:37, Rod Swift wrote to Kurtis Baxter:
KB>> Do you think the bible is real, and god really wrote it etc,
KB>> or do you think it was written by a group so that people
KB>> would feel that they had a purpose, and there was a meaning
KB>> for life?
...I just love it when people claim that the Bible is "The Word Of God".
I
then ask them to provide the written reference in the Bible, the scrolls,
or
in any other supporting writings where it states, "Penned by the hand of
God".
I find it hilarious to imagine some geriatric geezer, named God, in flowing
white robes, sitting on the banks of the Dead Sea, quill, ink and parchment
in
hand, writing biblical passages.
In my younger days, if you could snort it, drop it, smoke it...I did it.
I
have been in some drugged dazes where I indeed thought I was communing with
the Almighty Himself. At least it was some spirit, usually horny as
hell.
It is also interesting that only about one third of the scribbles attributed
to biblical times, Jewish history and the life and times of Christ are
included in the published Bible. It seems that the other 2/3rds are either
too controversial, or they actually show Christ as being just another well
intentioned, though highly opinionated human, good at slight-of-hand and
public speaking.
BTW....If you and your partner ever find yourself up in the Calgary/Edmonton
area, Max, (my partner) and I would love to visit with you on our farm.
Love & Peace....
The Avatar
--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
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|From: Josef Berg
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: cheese whiz
|Date: 27 Jan 97 12:33:02
EID:57bf 223b6420
MSGID: 1:342/1.2 32eca298
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e5d566
Good Morning, Rod!
Wednesday January 22 1997 16:52, Rod Swift wrote to Nate Cookson:
RS> So you agree that God makes our genetic structure, knows of it,
RS> and yet still allows the birth of children with major birth
RS> defects?
....It seems to me that there are two main thoughts on this.
The first one assumes that the defective child is the product of the evil
intent and actions of the parents. It seems that as the evil of the parents
increases the deformity or deficiency of the child exponentially. A
deformed child is God's way of letting the world know just how evil the
parents, or in most patriarchal societies, the mother is. This, though,
is
not exclusive Christian thinking.
The second line of thinking seems to be that deformed children are a way
of
testing the worthiness of the parents, and to test the child and ensuing
adult. The suffering involved by all parties is necessary to develop
spiritual fiber. The more suffering without ever loosing "faith" in God,
the
greater the reward in the afterlife. A rather sick way of treating one's
creations, but to most Christians, it makes sense in some morbid and
masochistic manner.
NC>> Our current disdain for human life is no less as low as
NC>> the time Hilter was doing his thing..
RS> And what sort of butcher is your deity if he allows such birth
RS> defects to exist? You're one sick fuck, you know!
...I agree. If I were to treat my farm animals the way God treats his
creations and charges, I would be thrown in jail and left to rot. But if
it's
in the name of Jeeeeeezzzzzzus!!!!, it's ok to do every conceivable sadistic
thing you want.
Love & Peace....
The Avatar
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:45:08
EID:1818 223ab5a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 1b727755
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb32
On (25 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to Dan Ceppa...
AS> My problem is, Dan, as horrible as I think the rape is to God
AS> (and certainly is to me) I can't think of a good alternative
AS> which would not either crush the human spirit (put us in a
AS> divine dictatorship) or encourage sadism and cruelty (by
AS> negating the consequences of cruel deeds) which would warp
AS> the human spirit into something crueler and wilder. I will
AS> not deny it is troubling to me, as it is to any thinking
AS> person. I think it troubles God, as well.
I gave you several alternatives that didn't involve negating
anybody's freewill, and all you could do was find hypothetical
"reasons" why they "wouldn't work," without a shred of evidence
to support any of them.
You'd do anything to back up your god's indifference, it seems.
... Stupidometer: ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ±± (98)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Jesus, rape, and a child
|Date: 26 Jan 97 22:47:03
EID:18c1 223ab5e0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 5ddb9c7c
REPLY: 1:116/17.0 32eacb36
On (25 Jan 97) Al Schroeder babbled to ROBERT CURRY...
RC> Thus, not omnipresent, correct? If OMNIpresent, Jesus DOES
RC> fuck 'em.
AS> I see. Then the air you breathe in your lungs should also be
AS> charged with rape?
What utter nonsense! The air he breathes is charged with an
indifferent god. Nothing more; nothing less. The indifferent god
is the one who is omni_*, not Robert.
... 29A - The hex of the beast
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Paul Boyer
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:29:59
EID:561c 223b8ba0
PID: ProBoard 2.15 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8644
-=> Quoting Jonathan Fingas to Don Martin <=-
JF> It's probably true that "only" 1/3 of the world's population is
JF> actively Christian, i.e. goes to church regularly and so on. But
JF> another 1/3rd is what I'd call semi-Christian, that is they believe
in
JF> God, Jesus and the whole thing, but do little to actually adhere to
JF> the principles or show their faith in some way.
Try again, dimwit.
The most recent figures I dredged up on worldwide religious beliefs
tallied nine hundred million Catholics, and six hundred million
Protestants. That's 1.5 billion people who are nominally Christian,
out of close to SIX BILLION human inhabitants of this planet. That's
1/4 of the world's population, not 1/3, and certainly NOT 2/3.
I suppose you believe that if you repeat a lie enough times, people will
start to believe it. Fortunately, we know better.
Paul
... Grow your own dope. Plant a FUNDIE!!!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
--- PB 2.15/FE 1.45a/DB 1.58
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:49:44
EID:4e35 223b9620
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9636
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Such as when prayers are answered, for instance. A good example can
be
AS>>> found in Augustine's writings, where he describes a miracle, when
the
AS>>> world "stops" around him and he sees into deeper things.
HP>> IOW, just as if there was no god at all. A good example can be found
HP>> in that others "see deeper into things" without praying first.
HP>> Einstein, for example.
AS> Yeah?
"Yeah?" ROFL! Yeah, Al.
AS> You ever read Augustine's experience? Just a tad different from
AS> Einstein's insights...
Wow. Two different humans had two different insights. One's were of magical
beings that can't be shown to exist. Some insight. :-)
AS> and doubtless, Einstein's were more useful.
Yeah, they were, weren't they?
AS> Despite the fact, to his horror, they birthed the atom bomb.
"Despite the fact, to Augustine's horror, they birthed the Inquisition."
You got some kinda point you thought you were making, Al? Or you just avoiding
the fact that you're spouting meaningless rubbish, and your "good example"
was
no example at all?
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:01
EID:4c5f 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9640
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB>>> Well, the accounts in the bible show ONE example of each.
HP>> But I was referring to reality, Judith. :-)
JB> You took out the context, Hector. I said it was the same as the number
JB> of shills in a faith healing revival.
Why are you bothering either to compare fantasy to reality, or to mess up
a good
joke, Judith? :-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Afraid of mortality?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:05
EID:5a31 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9642
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> The reality where a universe can appear in a Big Bang, with literally
AS>>> nothing before it...perhaps not even time or space?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HP>> As has been pointed out to you many times before, Al, "before time"
is
HP>> meaningless. The universe doesn't seem to have "appeared." It seems
AS> ...and where above did I say there was anything before time?
Underlined it for you. You're a bit of a thicko, aren't you?
AS>>> The reality where a wave can become a particle?
HP>> ROFL! Quanta behave as both waves and particles -- they are something
HP>> else entirely. Don't confuse, yet again, the finger with the moon
HP>> toward which it is pointing, Al.
AS> Fine. "BEHAVE" like a wave or a particle. A difference that makes no
AS> difference is no difference.
It's a difference that makes quite a large difference, Al. Neither waves
nor
particles, in the classical sense, engage in atemporal handshaking, for
example.
Don't confuse, yet again, the finger with the moon toward which it is pointing,
Al.
AS>>> Rather interesting reality.
HP>> Certainly is. One wonders why you don't find it interesting enough
HP>> and thus add imaginary gods to the mix, though. Character flaw?
AS> Love of truth.
So now you define "imaginary" as "truth?" How typically
Orwellian of you, my dear fundy.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al B.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:09
EID:aa8d 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9644
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP> But far more boring. Would you like some infinite, tasteless cheese
HP> with your incessant, inane whining, Al?
AS> No thanks, Mark.
What's wrong, Al? You simply _must_ have some cheese with that whining
of
yours. I insist.
With your (gentle fart)s
Don't you like them as well as your s? Should
I
notify your family?
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:13
EID:2c7a 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9646
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> I think it's funny for an atheist to go "Good Lord!"
HP>> You must be in stiches from all the "Goat Griefs!" from the atheists,
HP>> then, not to mention the "Holy Shit!" from the churchgoers. Bet you
HP>> bust a gut when someone besides a Hindu says "Holy Cow!" Odds are
HP>> you are unable to suppress chuckles when atheists say "Gosh!" right?
AS> Not particularly.
Gee, Al, you have a double standard.
HP>> Face it, Al -- you're easily amused but are having great difficulty
HP>> being amusing with these nitpicking, condescending and
HP>> downright stupid inanities.
HP>>
AS> You can't get a much more downright stupid inanity than that.
Gee, Al, it's my impression of you. Glad you liked it. Hope you don't
mind
having proven Hector's Law correct yet again. :-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:17
EID:b353 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9648
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Much of cosmology is "wild speculation", Robert.
HP>> Much of Schroeder's Cosmology, no doubt at all. That's because you
HP>> insist on answering questions to which there are currently no answers
HP>> with an answer for which there is no evidence.
AS> And the Hartle-Hawking no-boundary proposal is--?
A proposal based on evidence. It does not, however, make sufficient testable
predictions to be called a theory. Hence it is only a proposal. Speculation,
yes. Wild, no. Still, it's not mainstream cosmology as it requires a fully
unified theory which we do not (at least yet) possess.
AS> Perhaps a Creator is, also.
You've yet to produce anything capable of doing any universe
creating, Al. Now _that's wild speculation, and nothing more.
HP>> OTOH, much of mainstream (non-fundy) cosmology is not "wild
HP>> speculation" -- it's simply incomplete due to the lack of a unified
HP>> theory.
AS> Depends on how you define "wild speculation" I suppose.
Depends on how you define "mainsteam cosmology."
AS> (Ever read the proposal that, instead of there
AS> being dark matter, the laws of gravitation change subtlely over
AS> intergalactic distances?)
Not mainstream cosmology.
HP>> (Watch Al bring something other than cosmology (like metaphysics) into
HP>> the conversation now. :-)
Thanks for proving me right with the above, Al. I knew that,
when it came to addressing scientific questions with metaphysical rubbish,
we
could count on you.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: disgusted
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:25
EID:8c30 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b964c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> Just admit it and move on. Your incessant whining, added to your
HP>> incredible condescension is getting you nowhere fast.
AS> Obviously, if I am stuck here with you.
You are free to run away again, Al. Should I notify your
family?
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:29
EID:d6da 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b964e
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> Thus demonstrating that a fundy doesn't know how to apply thought to
HP>> various situations. Cling to that petrified rule, Al, as you seem
to
HP>> have no chance on your own
AS> I daresay my ethics will outlast whatever you base yours on.
Hector's Law strikes again.
I base my ethics on _everything_, Al. As an atheist, I'm free to choose
among
the best of what's been done in the past and what's being done in the present,
including my own thinking. I daresay that procedure will outlast your holy
coloring book, Al, as long as people continue to think for themselves.
Next you'll be telling me how not following your ethics will
"damage my reputation." ROFL!
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:33
EID:2440 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9650
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB> I need a full wording of Hector's law and its corollaries for the web
JB> page.
Hector's Law:
"Given enough time, any fundy will debunk itself."
Corollary #1:
"And the fundy won't notice, even when it's pointed out to it."
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:37
EID:d820 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9652
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Wanna bet?? A lot of people have argued with me whether there really
is
AS>>> any free will. Many people take a strictly deterministic view of
AS>>> human nature.
HP>> IOW,
Should be "IMHO" -- my bad.
HP>> in a way, things are determined. But you can't figure out what's
HP>> going to happen in less time than it would take it to happen, so the
HP>> point's moot and you're arguing with yourself again.
AS> You're myself?
In your dreams, perhaps. But you are, IMHO, arguing with yourself. Sure,
things may be predetermined. But it's irrelevant.
AS>>> I admit to having no good answer to the Problem of Pain. (I.E., useless
AS>>> pain, accidental pain, accidental death, etc.) I think free will covers
AS>>> the problem of EVIL...
HP>> Since the two are inextricably combined, you have just
HP>> admitted to having no answer to either.
AS> No, the two are quite distinct.
No, the two are inextricably combined. Evil causes pain. Simple, huh?
HP>> Back on a couple of weeks, and you're getting boring again already...
AS> You, on the other hand, are a constant delight and surprise
Of course. While you are simply dull, plodding, whiney and condescending.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:41
EID:64be 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9654
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> Al, Al, Al -- the universe didn't "suddenly appear." It seems to go
HP>> backward in time to T=0 (though we can only extrapolate back to _close_
HP>> to that point without a unified theory) and goes forward to some as-yet
HP>> undetermined time -- that's all.
AS> It certainly "seems" to, Hec/Mark. But, of course, without the unified
AS> field theory, any theorizing on it is just...ummm..."metaphysical
AS>speculation"?
You really don't understand science at all, do you, Al?
That is
what it seems to be using what we know today, without a fully unified theory.
It is scientific extrapolation rather than metaphysical speculation. I'm
not at
all surprised that you don't know the difference.
AS> But I have expert upon expert (quoted AS> to you in another post this
AS> packet) that think it's a reasonable assertion that in most possible
AS> universes, intelligent life would not result
Al, Al, we're well aware that, if we grant that other universes are possible,
the best explanation for the universe we find ourselves in is anthropic
selection. Not totally unevidenced gods. You're being pedantically boring
again.
HP>> Tsk, tsk, tsk. You forget that your experts are
HP>> _metaphysically speculating_, Al, as has been pointed out to you
AS> I would say, instead, a reasonable extrapolation of known data.
We don't know if other universes are possible, Al. Hence, you are
metaphysically speculating when you start talking about "other universes."
Quite simple, really. Pay attention.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: freedom to blame
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:45
EID:3586 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9656
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Not in this packet. You seem to be accusing Jesus of raping little
AS>>> girls.
HP>> Gee, Al, I've never seen Curry say such a thing. Perhaps you're
HP>> wrong, eh?
AS> No.
Gee, I've yet to see Curry actually "accuse" Jesus of doing anything but
being
around 2000 years dead.
HP>> I _have_ seen Curry pick at you by calling Jesus an "omni-raper" --
HP>> quite funny. I have also seen Curry point out that, if such a being
HP>> as an omnipotent, omniscient god were to exist outside the human
HP>> imagination, it would have to _allow_ the rape of little girls to
HP>> occur for such to happen. If you allowed one of your children to stab
HP>> another, you wouldn't have stabbed one of your children -- surely
HP>> even you can tell the difference, eh?
AS> I can, Hec.
Well, hallelujah. Al has finally seen the light. Then you're at last aware
that Curry doesn't think Jesus is alive to do any raping, yes? You concede
that
you were wrong, yes?
AS>>> Which seems about as grotesque a bit of slander
HP>> Jess has been dead for nearly 2000 years, so I doubt he'd be filing
HP>> charges even if your strawman were true. If you brought charges on
his
AS> Well, that remains to be seen.
Gee, most folks have noticed that there's been no sign of Jess for nearly
2000
years, Al. Hint: no one lives that long, even if they pulled him off his
cross
still breathing. It doesn't remain to be seen, Al. You're making no sense
again.
HP>> behalf you'd be laughed out of court. Why, we're laughing at you
HP>> right now, in fact. :-)
AS> Indeed?
Of course, Al. You're silly.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: fucked up priorities
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:49
EID:3c23 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9658
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RC>> But no. Jesus WANTS little children to suffer. He does NOTHING.
AS> You reading this, Mark/Hector?
Sure. You're discussing your theology, in which your gods allow little
children
to suffer. If your gods allow little children to suffer, and if your gods
can
stop it, but don't, it must be the will of your gods that little children
suffer. Pretty simple stuff.
OTOH, ask Robert if he's actually accusing Jesus of raping little girls,
as you
claimed. Smack yourself upside the head a few times, maybe it'll sink in.
:-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:53
EID:f388 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b965a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> And if you are hallucinating both? Don't say it's unlikely. A dream
is
AS>>> a hallucination that often uses several senses.
HP>> And how often do you have these dreams that you cannot distinguish
HP>> from reality, Al? :-)
AS> All the time, Hec...
That can be treated with medication these days, Al.
Doesn't it make you wonder how much of your memories are composed of dreams
you
think are real, little fundy? :-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: lies or just idiocy?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:50:57
EID:4a52 223b9640
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b965c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> I'm doing fine, Robert. Jogging all around you, weaving in and out
HP>> ROFL! Al's description of The Fundy Shuffle.
AS> Better a moving mind
In your case, better any mind at all, Al. We can all see
it's
only your feet that are moving -- your brain is stuck in a rut.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Marilyn Burge
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:01
EID:3108 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9660
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Not at all. Just mentioning that there seems to be something in common,
AS>>> there.
HP>> ROFL! Yeah, Al, we read what Marilyn had to say on the subject.
HP>> She wonders what it is you find embarrassing about what you wrote.
AS> I have already answered Marilyn, thank you.
Hee hee -- the funny part, of course, was her answer to you. Want some
cheese
with that whine?
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Of threats of Hell...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:05
EID:2619 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9662
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Well, it depends on how you look at it, Robert. One could also say
AS>>> that they are trying to warn people of possible consequences
HP>> Unfortunately for you, Al, neither heaven nor hell appear to exist
HP>> (outside the human imagination). Ergo, you don't seem to be warning
AS> Do tell me the experiments that determine that.
ROFL! Sorry, Al-boy, it ain't up to us to prove your "possible consequences"
are indeed not possible -- it's up to you to demonstrate that they are.
All
this time in Holysmoke, you being called on this very foopah time after
time,
and you still are ignorant of the basic tenet that "he who makes the claim
provides the evidence!" What a maroon!
AS> In fact...although personally I don't believe that near-death experiences
AS> indicate anything more than oxygen starvation to the brain...
Nice disclaimer, but it won't prevent me from laughing at your pitiable
attempt
below:
AS> there are
AS> enough of such instances, even in non-Christian cultures...that the
AS> accumulated evidence for an afterlife experience might be considered
AS> worth investigating.
ROFL! I guess you aren't aware that they can reproduce NDEs with a centrifuge,
Al?
HP>> anyone about _possible_ consequences at all.
AS> If it's not possible, it must be impossible.
ROFL! Al, Al, Al, it's not up to us to prove that it's impossible for lightning
to come from Thor's hammer. It's up to you to demonstrate that it does.
AS>>> That's not threatening people, it's letting them know what might happen.
HP>> In your fantasies, perhaps? Why don't you strap on that "The End
HP>> Is Coming" placard and go wander the streets some more, eh?
Well, Al? Why don't you run out and warn folks how the aliens
are coming to scope out their bowels? Makes about as much sense, doesn't
it?
:-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:09
EID:0d90 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9664
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>>> Behold the braying ass...
We see you, already.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: wishes and assertions
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:13
EID:1c7f 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9666
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> I notice you avoided his question, Al. :-)
AS> See the end of this post.
You simply pointed out that it is _a_ better answer than
theism.
Tsk, tsk.
RC>>> If you seriously believe that such an assertion is the only alternative
RC>>> to theism, then you are even more stupid than I thought
AS> Not at all, Robert. And of course, nowhere in the above did I say
AS> it was the ONLY alternative
HP>> You simply tried to pretend that someone else had asserted "that there
HP>> is no reason why the laws of physics are as they are." Then you blame
HP>> Robert for thinking that, since you made up that assertion, you might
HP>> (notice his "if") be trying to claim that it was the only alternative.
HP>> Oh, what tangled webs you weave, Al.
HP>> Try arguing with what people actually say, Al. And try to back up
HP>> your claims with some evidence. Just for shits and giggles, you
HP>> understand. And maybe a shred of credibility.
AS> Done.
All you did was illustrate that it is a better answer than theism, not that
anyone besides you had given the impression that it was the only answer
besides
theism, and not that anyone besides you had even asserted such a thing,
Al.
Tsk, tsk, you've been caught in shoddy argument yet again. It's known as
a
strawman -- pretending someone said something they didn't say.
HP>> As has been stated hundreds of times, Al, you have no idea what other
HP>> values might be possible, and there are better explanations than your
HP>> "I don't know, and I ain't gonna look" (i.e. "gods dunnit") copout.
HP>> Even "they just are that way" is a better explanation, as it doesn't
HP>> rely on introducing an unevidenced entity.
As can plainly be seen, the above does _not_ assert that "they just are
that
way" is the only alternative to theism. It does correctly point out that
it is
a better answer than theism's non-answer, however.
I realize your method of argument relies on hiding what was
really said over time, burying it under tons of meaningless verbiage from
your
keyboard until the original point which you lost is forgotten. Too bad
it
doesn't work well all the time, eh?
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:17
EID:0a45 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9668
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> Nyaaahhh. Instead it is verified by the quick growth of
AS>> Christianity, and people giving up their lives for such a "myth"
AS>> within the lifetime of those who could debunk same. (See Tacitus
AS>> and Seutonius for verification that the Christians were
AS>> persecuted within Nero's reign.)
JdB> What a crock of nonsense!
Indeed. For one thing, Al can't debunk JFK being the anti-christ to Prewett's
satisfaction. For another, if the folks in the myth (the disciples, for
example) were fictional rather than real characters, just who would you
go
looking for to debunk the myth? Al also greatly underestimates the difficulties
of traveling around 50 AD for the normal man. Finally, folks who believe
a myth
are rarely inclined to go and prove it wrong to themselves -- take Al, for
example...
JdB> Does the quick growth of Scientology, or Naziism, VERIFY its validity?
Of course not. But Al will tell you how that's _different_ -- for some
irrelevant non-reason.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:21
EID:46d3 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b966a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> I do not begrudge anyone forgiveness, as long as the asking is
AS>> genuine.
JB> Well! Aren't you special.
:-)
Not really, Judith. I note that Al shares with his gods the inability to
grant
forgiveness without preliminary "genuine" grovelling.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:25
EID:4e35 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b966c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RH>> Because it IS! Kill your kids, Al, it's for their own good. Learn
RH>> what self-sacrifice REALLY means.
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
Well, give one of your kids a knife and let him kill the others. That far
into
self-sacrifice you claim your gods are, after all.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:37
EID:ba6f 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9672
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> Sometimes my children get hurt, also. It is not my will, and the
AS>> hurt's still there. Often from something THEY decided to do.
AS>> But they don't turn on me and demand, "How could you let me go
AS>> out and hurt myself!"
RC> What do you think would be the apropriate response to you if you just
RC> stood there watching as one of your children tied another one down,
RC> then proceeded (as you did nothing but stand by silently to watch) to
RC> cut the other child's tongue out?
RC> Honestly, Al.
I doubt that phrase is more than white noise to Al.
RC> Is it just that you reserve being an accessory before
RC> the fact "justifiable" for your god? Or do you think that your child,
RC> after being tortured as you stand by and watch, should love you all
RC> the more for your tender consideration of the torturer's "free will?"
Al has no answer he's willing to give. But I'll bet that, deep down inside,
he
knows he's full of shit, even without seeing the skid marks in his shorts.
He
just has a pathological inability to correct his mistakes where his religion
is
concerned.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: ???
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:41
EID:ad20 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9674
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> But they don't say they witnessed the impossible...and hold to it no
AS>> matter what.
Remind Al that only apparently fictitious characters (i.e. characters which
make
no appearance outside the mythology itself) did any witnessing. Also remind
him
that many people go to their graves claiming to have witnessed extraordinary
events, like UFO landings.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:51:45
EID:0d77 223b9660
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223b9676
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS> Interesting assertion. Please delineate such a change in constants,
and
AS> then devise a biology that will work, in theory.
Magic works. We get matter held together by manna, and dragons.
Face it, Al, your narrow idea of constant changing is ludicrous. If all
you can
do is spout the same old, tired bullshit, I'll just have to find someone
else to
play with and let you make an idiot of yourself _by_ yourself.
Oh, do I have to ask your permission not to post to you anymore?
Tough. Bye.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Orion?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 07:20:35
EID:0b5a 223b3a80
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 14350133
REPLY: 1:358/1 6438728e
On (25 Jan 97) Quentin Fai babbled to Judith Bandsma...
QF> I need to glue his leg back on, though. My brother put a box of donuts
QF> on top of my computer, and accidentally knocked him over. I have to
QF> find a more secure place to put him, but he just looks so damned neat
QF> on top of my
QF> computer.
Maybe if you invested in a small package of Play-Doh you could
use four small dollops of it on his feet to get them to "stick"
to the top of your computer. I'm not positive it would work,
but it seems like it might.
... 23rd Rule of Creationism: Claim superiority for Christian education.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Denyse Heard
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 27 Jan 97 07:25:43
EID:4a0a 223b3b20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 14ae0c0e
REPLY: 1:381/95 e5386e7a
On (25 Jan 97) Denyse Heard babbled to J.J. Hitt...
DH> I have a bit of evidence, mostly direct from the Bible, but a lot
DH> was gleaned through other hisorical sources. Anyone interested?
JH> Yes.
Denyse,
You are making it awfully hard for people to take you seriously.
Have you ever heard of paragraphs?
The name of the book is Revelation. SINGULAR. If you don't
even know THAT MUCH about the book your expounding on, it
makes you look awfully poorly informed regarding anything
else you say about the book.
Why should we take what you say seriously?
... Think hard now! Which one is Shinola?`
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: . [3/3]
|Date: 27 Jan 97 07:30:32
EID:7d0e 223b3bc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 310ffe3b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 53dbb198
On (25 Jan 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Chris Green...
KW> I think you have a pretty good idea just what it is that you
KW> can do with that mealy mouthed british superiority and that
KW> whip.
As the "brits" would say, SPOT ON!!!
(You forgot to mention how gaw-gaw we were all supposed to be
about his IQ score.)
... There are no Christian Moderators here that are going to save you.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 27 Jan 97 16:45:57
EID:cd3d 223b85a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecdbc5
-> On 22 Jan 97 03:45:18, Paul Davis got back to Fredric Rice
>> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
FR> Yes.
PD> So what do you call someone who has no stance for or against religion
PD> and someone who actively debunks it?
Intelligent.
... "Are you a good witch or a bad witch?" Glenda Good Witch of the North
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 27 Jan 97 16:58:27
EID:2fb1 223b8740
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecdeb3
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:31:12, ROBERT CURRY got back to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
LB> They didn't use wheels because they never invented ROADS.
DW> I see. Other places invented roads first, thus making
DW> the wheel practical.
RC> Actually, there *were* some roads. Has everyone forgotten the Incas?
INCASe you forgot, I do think that the Aztecs and Mayans also
had road systems.
It's interesting to note that the Central and South American
Indians where generally for more advanced than those of North
American. My guess is that climate was partially responsible
for that, along with the available materials.
... +Origin: Social Theocracy: Removing your Rights for Jaaayyyssuuss.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:05:02
EID:2fb1 223b88a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ece03e
-> On 24 Jan 97 08:31:13, ROBERT CURRY got back to DAVID WORRELL
DW> While fire is the primary requirement for technology,
RC> Are you sure about that?
I have to agree with David on that point. Though it does
not ensure that a technology will develop, it is the basis
of all technology, FMPOV.
There is little, if anything, around you that did not require
fire or heat to produce. It was control of that fire that
allowed men to live in climates that are not suitable for them.
It was also the same thing that allowed them to spend the
"dark hours" doing things that didn't have enough time to
be accomplished in regular daylight. Better yet, that
same thing allowed them to do more than they could ever
do in the normal daylight: Take the time to think and plan
what they were going to do the next day.
... Surveys are the leading cause of statistics.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Overbooking the waterslide
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:11:11
EID:4092 223b8960
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ece1af
-> On 23 Jan 97 16:43:36, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
Jd> On 14 Jan 97 23:29:52 Dan Ceppa wrote to Fredric Rice...
FR> some wooden goat idols for $1.99 each in quantities of 10 or more!
dc> Great! You can sell them for a buck a piece.
dc> (Don't worry, you'll make out on the volume!)
Jd> Jim Bakker would have sold the same goat idol to three different
Jd> buyers.
I told Fredric that it would work! Now, all he has to worry
about is a stint in prison.
... New Oral Roberts Doll--feed it money or it self-destructs!!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Psalm 22:7-8 / Matthew 27:38-44
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:13:50
EID:978c 223b89a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ece24e
-> On 25 Jan 97 07:23:00, Leonard Bernier got back to All
LB> PRAISE GOD !
Thank, you, Lenny. It's nice of you to recognize me.
LB> PROPHECY: - The Messiah will be mocked.
That's because you worhip a mock god.
... Belief, believe, believes...conjugates of the verb "to blindly accept"
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Scientific facts (c).
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:22:47
EID:7c8f 223b8ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ece467
-> On 23 Jan 97 03:38:38, John Musselwhite got back to Laurie Appleton
JM> I scan for mail addressed to me and would have missed this
JM> since you spelled my name wrong...
JM> On 19 Jan 97 09:13:30, Laurie Appleton penned the following to John
JM> Musslewhite re: Scientific facts (c).
That's a favorite trick of Appletoon. He has done that far more
than once to parties that he doesn't want them to see his reply
to them.
Let's the SOB say that "you couldn't/didn't answer" his
oughtright bullshit. I think that he thinks like Billy
Wolff in that he expects others to have as limited attention
spans as they both do.
... Appleton does more for evolution than his limited mind comprehends.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Special Pleading
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:41:42
EID:06ad 223b8d20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ece8d6
-> On 23 Jan 97 09:51:15, John Musselwhite got back to Laurie Appleton
LA> Nothing ever "demonstrated" evolution and its
LA> subsiduary claims to be wrong!
RM> Are you sure you meant that? Have you joined our side?
LA> Didn't you notice that I used inverted commas?
JM> We noticed you used quotation marks. We also notice you have a
JM> problem with mirror-imaging, inversion and projection.
He also has a big problem with any and most likely, all punctuation
marks. He calls umlauts "thingies".
... "Punctation marks are a blasphemous tool of your schooling!" Appleton
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: THE ALIGNMENT LIST
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:50:58
EID:cb08 223b8e40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eceb02
-> On 25 Jan 97 11:50:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Becke Boyer
BB>Are the harpies trying to monopolize the chocolate now? ;)
KW> If we can!
Rememer, I live where the One True Frango comes from!
... Never tell anyone where the FRANGO'S are hidden!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: the pitter-patter of
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:53:50
EID:bd49 223b8ea0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecebae
-> On 25 Jan 97 11:37:38, Dave Hamilton got back to Katherine Wintersnight
DH> has assumed you are a Catholic priest and wants you to
DH> perform his last rites?" Now, no one with any surviving
DH> cognitive ability would take *her* for a Catholic priest,
DH> but it's a fun question to explore.
Well, she could be a long haired hippy priest who likes
to paint her nails.
... Lo, God smote the world with a plague of Clan McGargle. - Bourbon 2:24
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: They're Off! It's Babar by a trunk...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 17:57:21
EID:83ad 223b8f20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecec81
-> On 26 Jan 97 11:31:22, Jan deBoer got back to Don Martin
DM> sulky beloved of harness racing fans. I suppose one really
DM> ought to ask a mahout.
Jd> Picture yourself at your local racetrack, seated in the sulky as
Jd> your elephant thunders into the first turn, and the others crowd in
on
Jd> you..........
Picture yourself as a spectator at the outside of that turn, realizing
that not all of the elephants will negotiate that turn........
... A good Christian does not think, a Good Christian obeys.--Billy Graham
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:01:37
EID:f77b 223b9020
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32eced81
-> On 18 Jan 97 02:50:13, Steve Hayes got back to Mimi Milstein
SH> I have mental images of Gatsha prancing in his beshu into a
SH> TV studio or something.
MM> here, most of us expect your images to be somewhat 'mental'.
SH> them here. Perhaps intelligent conversation is too much to hope for,
You would have to show some signs of that to come close to
qualifying.
SH> abuse or irrelevant inanities. Such comments tend to attract replies
SH> of the same genre.
Your messages are the touchstone that all other inane messages
are measured.
... Creationist Nonsense Detected: (S)ave, (D)elete, (L)augh like hell?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: who does god like?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:24:50
EID:bbe1 223b9300
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecf2f2
-> On 24 Jan 97 16:07:57, Alan Hess got back to Dan Ceppa
AH>> didn't like the other athlete or team? And, if the victor turns
AH>> out to lose a rematch, does that mean god changed his mind?
DC> Does that mean you placed the wrong bet on the wrong team for
DC> Stupor Bowl Sunday and you are trying to lay it off?
AH> I never bet on that game. However, god must favor the Packers, since
AH> they have Reggie White.
It didn't look so in the first half. One of the better Stupor
Bowls in some time.
And, as to Reggie, I'm actually glad that his team won. As
I understand it, it's the only championship team that he's
ever been on in his life. He's earned it.
Now, whether if his god made it happen is up for grabs. I'm
certain that at least a few of those on the other team prayed
at least as hard for their team to win.
... Miracles are an irrelevancy..... faith is the reality of religion.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:28:30
EID:79e7 223b9380
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecf3ce
-> On 14 Jan 97 06:07:15, Steve Hayes got back to Sally Springett
SH> As I said, I don't recollect having seen a question about fucking.
Where is the evidence for your fucking god?
There, pink boy, is your question about fucking.
Now either provide evidence that your god exists or admit
to it that he's a fucked up god of your pitiful imagination.
... "And the idiot says in his mind that there is a god." - Styx 1:152
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:30:07
EID:79e7 223b93c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecf42f
-> On 16 Jan 97 06:38:03, Steve Hayes got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> It is, when you are talking about your position when compared to
DC> what your masters do you.
SH> Just answer the question, or admit that you don't have the answer.
I've seen the answer. That's why your normal stance is
bent over.
... Christians call it "faith" ... I call it "the herd" : Nietzsche
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:33:05
EID:cf63 223b9420
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecf4e1
-> On 14 Jan 97 06:09:49, Steve Hayes got back to Martin Goldberg
SH> BULL TURNS TAIL AT ZULU SLAUGHTER RITUAL
MG> And your point is?
SH> What do you mean?
You posted the original message. If you didn't have a clue
as to what it was about, you are wasting bandwith.
So, other than the one on top of your head, what's your point?
... Why buy toilet paper when bibles are given away free? - Robert Curry
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Zulu harvest festival
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:35:06
EID:cf63 223b9460
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ecf55a
-> On 14 Jan 97 06:14:10, Steve Hayes got back to Fredric Rice
[previously quoted material deleted]
I'd respond to your reply, but it looks like you are
too stupid to give one, Stevie.
... +Origin: COLOSTOMY NETWORK: Shitbags for the Lord!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:34:59
EID:feff 223b9c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ed0363
-> On 21 Jan 97 10:55:00, Joseph Keenan got back to Dan Ceppa
>>As it stands, I think I know of only one proselytizing Wiccan
>>and none from any of the other pagan groups.
JK> It always amazed me to hear an x-ian say that you must come to
JK> their Christ (which is a title and not a name) of your own free will.
Not a title, but a process.
DC>>... Please, God, save me from some of your followers!
JK> Amen my brother!
Damn! I was hoping that you were at least an non-related
female cousin!
JK> Christianity is the only faith that keeps a hand on yoru
JK> wallet.
Not so sure about that. I think most religions know how to
keep their bread buttered.
... DM's love a hero; DM's also love a good joke. Think about it.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Cash or charge?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:38:48
EID:402c 223b9cc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ed0448
-> On 23 Jan 97 18:52:20, Jan deBoer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> It's not so much the constant amps as the constant voltage.
DC> A DC battery will give you 12 volts until it's drained.
DC> A starting battery loses voltage as you pull amps out
DC> of it.
Jd> Disagree! Lead-acid battery voltage tapers off as it is discharged.
Which is a startin battery.
Jd> NiCads maintain voltage while discharging, voltage collapses quickly
Jd> when fully discharged.
That may be the problem: You depleted them too far.
Jd> $115 each with 1 year warranty. Lasted 2 years. Replaced with regular
Jd> (marine) starting battery @ $59 with 3 year warranty, and I deep-cycled
Jd> them. They lasted 5 years.
Many small marine batteries are dual-purpose. They do seem to
last longer, escpecially when the motors that they start are
rather small, like those of sail boats.
... I'm not a prosecutor but I played one in Holysmoke
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:52:53
EID:5799 223b9e80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32ed0795
-> On 14 Jan 97 06:13:08, Steve Hayes got back to Martin Goldberg
MG> Why do we need to be saved?
SH> Here is the answer I gave Shelby Sherman.
SH> Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why does anyone
SH> need a liver?"
SH> The answer depends on the assumptions you make about life, the
SH> universe and everything, and the answer isn't always 42.
You need a liver to survive. Where is the evidence that you
need to be saved?
SH> Christians believe that God made the world and made it good. But when
Believe all you want. That's up to you. Provide the evidence.
SH> target, or failing to reach a goal. The world has somehow failed to
SH> reach the goal of "goodness".
And, show how your xianity has done better. Go ahead.
SH> Christians believe
There you go with that "belief" thing. Try providing evidence
the next time around.
SH> Chrsitians believe
Where's the evidence, pink boy?
All you have shown is that you believe in what you can't show
as being any part of reality. Try again.
... "What you call a refusal to answer was a refusal to respond" J Jones
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Treating aids???
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:26:36
EID:c231 223a3340
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32eb6eea
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e5e306
Rod Swift said "Treating aids???" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> CD> KS> * OLX 2.2 * If a fundy divorces his wife, is she still his
DM> CD> KS> cousin?
DM> CD> I just don't believe Jesus would use you to speak to me like that!
DM> RS> I just don't believe Jesus would use you to speak to us. In
DM> RS> any way whatsoever!
DM> The size of his arsehole provides wonderful resonance
DM> when JHC shouts up it to speak through him?
RS> I graciously stand corrected, Brother Don :) :) :)
RS> Rod "...Clayton still speaks through his ass though" Swift :)
Considering where his head is, he has few choices in the matter.
You know you have a fundy when he is astonished to learn that all
toothpastes do not taste like Preparation H.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: native americans
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:45:53
EID:ed7f 223a35a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32eb6eeb
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32e8aebb
David Worrell said "native americans" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> I suppose one really ought to ask a mahout.
DW> That's okay - I was a mahout in a past life. :)
Ever drive for Shirley MacLaine in one of hers?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Total Enlightenment
|Date: 26 Jan 97 06:51:03
EID:206d 223a3660
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32eb6eec
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 4c05d049
Sally Springett said "Total Enlightenment" to Don Martin, adding:
SS> I ran across a snippet in a novel (_Still Life_ by Rick Hanson)
SS> that amused me and I thought might also amuse you:
SS> "Years ago I had come to the conclusion that the quest for
SS> total enlightenment was very time-consuming, and not near as
SS> much fun as having a life. Though I try to keep an open
SS> mind, the only Shirley MacLaine-ish theory I can really
SS> embrace is: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
And that particular one, as I understand it, is a genuine bit of
Buddhist theology and not really Shirley MacLaine-ish (this is, I
think, the first time ever that I have referred to this person twice
in the same day) at all. It has to do with the necessity of the
individual finding his own path without the delusion of imaginary
Superfriends leading the way.
Elsewhere, you said to me about the judge who lets off abortion
protesters because they mean well in their hearts:
DM> Paul Hill and John Salvi also doubtless acted "out of a pure
DM> conviction in their hearts."
SS> No question about it. Apparently "hearts" are not required to pass
SS> sanity tests.
DM> And as I remember the basic principles of civil disobedience,
DM> the first step is being prepared to accept the punishment
DM> imposed by the law you are deliberately breaking. It would
DM> seem that this judge hasn't heard of that one. Is this nitwit
DM> close to Rochester?
SS> Unfortunately it happened in Rochester. Said judge has made it to my
SS> short list of people who will _never_ get my vote. It may not be
SS> much but it made me feel better.
I don't suppose that you could furnish the good judge's name and
email address to the friendly citizens of HolySmoke?
SS> The principles these people admire are not principles they feel
SS> required to follow. Who could possibly be good enough to judge them?
SS> Law? Who cares about law? They are above it.
What is an imaginary superfriend for, anyway, if not to tell you
when you are right and the law is wrong?
And again, you said regarding elephantine transportation systems:
DM> beloved of harness racing fans. I suppose one really ought to
DM> ask a mahout.
SS> I was going to say that first we'd have to find one when I realized
SS> that we have such a wild variety of folks we may discover that
SS> there is one lurking here that can answer your question.
SS> If you are a mahout come out, come out....
He already did. Turns out to be Worrell.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:13:49
EID:602c 223a49a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.20 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 32eb6eed
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e96450
Dan Ceppa said "NATIVE AMERICANS" to Roger Hunter, adding:
RH> Besides which, a nomadic tribe could not build roads
RH> and a wheel is actually a hinderance in rolling terrain, whereas
DC> Not all of the Indian tribes were nomadic. This is especially
DC> true of the coastal tribes, but also held true with at least
DC> the Iroqouis nations.
I would think that a more useful distinction would be based on
the terrain occupied by the various tribes. Woodlands require work
for habitation and tend to fix groups in place more than savannahs
with roving (and highly visible) herds of game, where practically
any spot with access to water will do for "home".
It also seems to me that societies that place a high value on
individual achievement as measured by accumulations of material
goods have a greater need for transport. Central and South American
civilizations obviously accumulated a great deal of material wealth,
but largely under communal ownership: the efforts of the populace
were diverted to building vast temples and palaces (a sort of branch
temple, as the king was considered a divine link for society) which
stayed put and were for the use of all.
RH> the travois will not move backwards.
On the Great Plaines of the U.S., before the Coming of the White
Man, U-turns were permitted.
DC> Such a device does have it's points. (Did I say that?) But,
DC> that's why brakes were invented.
To help the travois move backward?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don.martin@mbbs.com)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 27 Jan 97 04:35:00
EID:d5e8 223b2460
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE15C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Curtis Johnson <=-
AS> No, it's an obvious typo, as shown by the preceding sentence,
AS> mentioning Socrates. If it offends you that I mistakenly types in one
Sorry, Al. The mention of Socrates was in the quote back, which I doubt
you read. You went on to specifically use Sophocles, not just once but
twice in that post and once in one other.
If you expect us to accept "obvious typo" you will also have to accept
the fact that you have been directly shown NOT to be reading what you
are responding to.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Orion?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 06:55:00
EID:8bc6 223b36e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE15D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Quentin Fai spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
QF> on top of my computer, and accidentally knocked him over. I have to
QF> find a more secure place to put him, but he just looks so damned neat
QF> on top of my computer.
So glue him to the top of your computer.
My condolences on the death of your brother.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: would you, could you?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:07:00
EID:fd5d 223b28e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE15E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Rob Burcham spoke thusly to Michael Hardy <=-
RB> Hardy, is it just me, or are you a more likable person
RB> now? When you were the Echo Apologist, you were often
'Tisn't just you Rob. I think the difference is that Mike is saying
now what he REALLY feels as opposed to trying to keep it to the party
line in order to avoid accusations of inconsistency.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 05:10:00
EID:9a78 223b2940
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE15F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
RC> Here, Al, have a styrofoam peanut.
RC> Take a whole bag. Leave yourself a trail out of the woods.
Make them the biodegradable corn starch type. And send him out right
before a rain storm.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Italian cheeseheads
|Date: 27 Jan 97 06:19:00
EID:4aeb 223b3260
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE160
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
JD> from the lowlands known as Gouda because it's too doggone expensive.
Actually I prefer an oude Edam. Or at least belegen. And I adore kumijnekaas.
None of which you can obtain here.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Name that tune!
|Date: 27 Jan 97 06:38:00
EID:95d8 223b34c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE161
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Glen Todd <=-
JD> asked, I can't claim that as a certainty. Dutch farmers were
JD> singularly unimaginative - one invariably wound up named after a
And I'll bet your middle name is Willem.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:23:00
EID:04c8 223b4ae0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE162
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-
JF> It shows that you're not intelligent enough to come up with real words
JF> or more useful and valid insults.
May a syphillitic camel give birth to twins in your living room and
mistake you for the afterbirth.
Valid enough for you?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: No fairy tales
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:27:00
EID:c33c 223b4b60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE163
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
JF> What about the shroud of Turin? Scientists once thought it was a
JF> fake, but it turned out (guess what?) that they were wrong and they
JF> can't explain its origins.
Do your 'scientists' take into account the writings from the monk who
was there when the shroud was produced? Or do they only figure that if
they can't do it then god musta dun it?
JF> There have been reports in the news of paintings of Mary crying.
JF> One recently in Toronto, in fact.
Hey, you're talking to Curry...who actually visited the building in
Clearwater that has the virgin Mary appearing in the tree stains
on the side. I'm talking FIRST-HAND reports here, not hearsay.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: kicks
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:32:00
EID:2377 223b4c00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE164
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Michael Hardy spoke thusly to David Worrell <=-
MH> dunno ... it's not a conspiracy or anything ... :-) ... at least you
MH> got to see the replay.
In slo-mo, even.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:35:00
EID:6644 223b4c60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE165
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Michael Hardy spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
RC> I've managed 4 years here without any explicit mention of physical
MH> And also explain what "sanity" has to do with anybody here. :-)
We were about to gain some. Couldn't have that happening, now could we?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:54:00
EID:179f 223a46c0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA90C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-
DC> Close. It was all because Augustine was toking on grass.
While munching on mushrooms and revelling in the rye.
... Cyber-Dog food: Kibbles and Bytes, Kibbles and Bytes.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: symbolism
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:58:00
EID:4f4d 223a4740
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA90D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Katherine Wintersnight <=-
DC> You lost me on that one... What's a 'kine'?
DAN!!!!! Look it up.
... CAT: A small furry beast resembling a meatloaf.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:01:00
EID:257e 223a4820
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA90E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-
JF> No, that's an event. The fig tree thing is a metaphor.
DW> The resurrection is told in exactly the same manner as is the story
of
DW> the fig tree. Tell us how you distinguish the two.
Well, anyone being able to wither a fig tree with a word is just plain
silly. So it can't possibly be true, can it?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:03:00
EID:cebb 223a4860
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA90F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to Robert Curry <=-
RC> Depends on your appetite. I could eat a lot of Twinkies.
DW> Just goes to show you that some people have no taste, I guess.
All this crap about Twinkies and what do I catch my darling Leo
watching the other day? A Martha Stewart wannabe show on .... HOW TO DECORATE TWINKIES.
Complete with little hats and faces and skirts and
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: It'sa gooda cheza!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:10:00
EID:8777 223a4940
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA910
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Ed Mills spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
EM> Also look for a Volkswagen repair place called "The Buggery,"
EM> and a gay bar on Polk street called "The White Swallow."
And, (neighborhood more in keeping with Dan's frame of mind) 'Haight
Mail'.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:13:00
EID:04c8 223a49a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA911
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-
JF> It's probably true that "only" 1/3 of the world's population is
JF> actively Christian, i.e. goes to church regularly and so on. But
No, dear boy, only 1/3 of the world population can be NAMED christian.
The other 2/3 are Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Shinto, etc, etc, etc.
Now take that 1/3 that would call themselves christian and put YOUR
definition of active to it and you get about 10% of that 1/3. So (by your
own words) ACTIVE christians make up about 2% of the world's population.
And they STILL want to run the whole thing.
What hubris. (Look it up)
JF> Miracle #1 - One woman, because of cancer, had to have a leg
JF> amputated. The resulting infection swelled her other leg and caused
[snippies]
JF> and prayed for healing. The next day, voila! No swelling whatsoever,
JF> and a visit to the doctor's reported no signs of the infection.
Would be more of a miracle if the amputated leg was suddenly back. No
points.
JF> Miracle #2 - A man, while on a Florida boating trip, fell overboard,
JF> without a life jacket and in rough seas. He started to sink, and
JF> called on God to help -sure enough, he felt a "lifting" sensation right
JF> then and he surfaced.
No points for this little piece of self-delusion either. (Where do you
come up with this shit?)
JF> Miracle #3 - A teenage girl was visiting the Grand Canyon and wanted
JF> to get a better view. She hopped the rail and started to scale down.
There are no words to describe someone who believes this crap.
JF> It's primarily the Catholic church who confirms miracles, and these
JF> are fairly stringent requirements. First, the miracle has to be
JF> something which could NOT occur, even the most rare cases. Second,
Gee, how many hundreds of years has it been since the confirmation of a
REAL miracle?
Go stand in the corner. I see wearing the pointy hat isn't enough.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Spam me big boy!
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:23:00
EID:5e68 223a4ae0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA912
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Katherine Wintersnight spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-
KW> I've seen the new page, and that bear ain't bald. Well, mostly not
KW> bald.
It's head is bald and that's all that counts. (For fitting with the
verse, at any rate.)
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: babbling bullshitter
|Date: 26 Jan 97 09:26:00
EID:4374 223a4b40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A7EA913
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0703
-=> Marilyn Burge spoke thusly to Curtis Johnson <=-
CJ> Thanks for posting this! (Any bets on how long Al will
CJ> whine over you posting this?)
MB> Any bets on how many of us give a rat's ass?
Wouldn't that depend on the size of the pot?
... Experiencing tagline difficulties, please stand by.
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:19:00
EID:f40e 223a8a60
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Of deities? The constants falling only in the small range which would
AS> allow intelligent life to develop in example after example...altruism
RH> Does not argue for a diety.
AS> It argues for some sort of selection, process, though. The argument
AS> is, which is the more likely selection process? Ensemble, Design, etc.
No, it does not, unless you agree that Natural Selection is an acceptable
selection process. You must show that the constants could have other
values. Tell you what, start with a similar idea; show how PI could
have a different value.
RH> Unevidenced. There are good reasons for "altruism" which you just
RH> keep ignoring.
AS> Not ignore. I just think they are incomplete,and do not address the
AS> more puzzling cases.
The "more puzzling" cases are abberations.
... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:24:00
EID:25ea 223a8b00
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Because it IS! Kill your kids, Al, it's for their own good. Learn
RH> what self-sacrifice REALLY means.
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
I've never found any Christian who was. But why not? It's a noble
ideal, self-sacrifice, so I'm told. And you DO want the best
for your children, surely? So, if you would sacrifice your life,
why NOT your soul?
... First listen to sermon, THEN eat missionary.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:26:00
EID:25ea 223a8b40
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Whipping with a Roman scourge and being tortured on the cross for
AS> hours isn't sacrifice?..
To an immortal God? No.
AS> Oh. Even when it's Himself on the cross?
Yes.
AS> It is indeed. As the legislature sets the consequences of arson; and
AS> someone commits arson...they go to an assigned punishment. (But it
AS> still remains the arsonist's choice to do the arson.)
Even if it's a psychological compulsion?
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:44:00
EID:e45b 223a8d80
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> And the construction of the human body argues for a fumble fingers
RH> using trial and error and spare parts to construct an upright biped,
RH> not an omniscient error-proof diety.
AS> Which is known to arise from the process of evolution, not direct
AS> dictation from a Creator.
Oh, that's right, you don't accept the bible as the inspired
Word of God. Sorry, I forgot...
RH> Weak argument at best, Al.
AS> Inapproiate analogy, Roger.
Not for a real True Christian (tm)
Heretic.
... Blind people don't bungee jump; it scares the dog too much.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:59:00
EID:5722 223a8f60
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Mark Kimes <=-
AS> But oddly enough, science went along quite well under theists who
AS> assumed a Creator...like the list of scientists I sent to others. Why
AS> is that, if assuming a god-explanation is so limiting?
It's because they did not let their religion interfere with their
science, Al. They did not say "God did it and I need look no further",
they said "God did it and I want to find out HOW ..."
... BEWARE - Tagline Thief in this echo
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:02:00
EID:5722 223a9040
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Curtis Johnson <=-
AS> Being earthbound, I used "size" and "mass" more or less
AS> interchangeably. Although time and space are often defined by the mass
You WHAT!?
Tell me, Al, how big is 10 pounds?
... The floggings will continue until morale improves.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BARBARIC CHRISTIAN RI
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:06:00
EID:fdf9 223a90c0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Yep. Also wrote WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE with--Bulmer? and AFTER WORLDS
DamnedifIknow. Not one (two) of his better works IMHO. I prefer his
non-fiction anyway.
AS> COLLIDE. The comic book hero Superman is in some ways Hugo Danner (of
AS> GLADIATOR) with a WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE type origin.
What was the one where the sexes vanished to one another?
... I do NOT steal taglines. I make backups which I use!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BOOTSTRAPPING UP, UP
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:10:00
EID:efc9 223a9140
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> And "the night sky is beautiful tonight...it's full of
AS> stars"...doesn't mean that the stars are within the atmosphere. Or
to
AS> say "the moon in the
AS> sky" doesn't mean the moon is within the atmosphere either.
AS> "Sky" can mean everything above one, out to infinity, or it CAN, as
AS> you rightly note, mean just the atmosphere. Either's possible.
But when those phrases got started, That's EXACTLY what they thought.
... Philosophy, like religion, yields no answers - only mind-sets.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FREEDOM AND LIFE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:48:00
EID:1d6e 223a9600
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> My own experience. I choose, in most cases. Now, it may be an
AS> illusion, motivated purely by past experiences and genetics. But if
AS> so, it seems pretty complete. And further, if there is no choice,
AS> then
RH> It's a good illusion. Everything you do has a cause, Al, which you
RH> may or may not be aware of.
AS> Could be. But if so, then I am a pawn of what went before...
That's right. You are. Quit worrying about free will and choice
and sin and get on with living a good life.
RH> Why not? we are simply creating new causes.
AS> But purely for behavior modification, without crediting them with any
AS> integrity to their being.
Yes. So? Was there a point in there somewhere?
AS> It's one of those things where I cheerfully admit I would rather grab
AS> the illusion than accept the reality, if THAT is the reality.
That way lies madness, Al.
RH> The mind is the functioning of the brain, nothing more. No brain,
RH> no mind. Change the brain, change the mind.
AS> Maybe not. Sometimes things are more than just the sum of their
AS> parts.
Quite commonly. A running car is more than the sum of it's parts
but we don't think of it as having a soul. You are no different.
You live so long as your body is capable of functioning.
When it quits, you die.
... What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FUCKED UP PRIORITIES
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:58:00
EID:2924 223a9740
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Which mental illnesses are those? That religiosity encourages?
RH> Codependence, lack of self-worth, loss of willpower, to name
RH> a few.
AS> Hmmm. And the studies that back up this assertion?
Just read your bible, Al. All of the above is demanded by YHVH
and slobberingly endorsed by the believers. Do you need examples?
RH> Ignorance is pandemic, Al.
AS> It certainly is, Typhoid Mary.
Do you accuse me of spreading ignorance? In what way, then?
... I tried to drown my problems but they can swim.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FUNDY LOST LIBRARY BO
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:02:00
EID:03cf 223a9840
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Hey Sam! Wanna discuss astrology? I'm something of an expert, at
RH> least where earthquakes are concerned...
AS> I don't THINK he's into that. He's more into the force of will, and
AS> that all mortals can achieve what Jesus did.
If he's a Rosicrucian, he has to be into it. It's central to the
philosophy, along with reincarnation.
... Woman will be the last thing civilized by Man
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:13:00
EID:31dc 223a99a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> I'm working it from the other end. Look, my belief that things which
AS> are equal to the same thing are equal to one another is not based on
AS> my experience---of never having "caught" them as anything else. It is
AS> an inference based on logic, and has little to do with experience. We
AS> feel that is a "truth". But if we realize that with what we are
AS> reasoning with might be FAULTY...then the whole fabric of supposition
AS> is thrown into suspicion. And once you doubt the process...how can you
AS> ever get out? Any test you propose is done by possibly equally faulty
AS> mechanisms...our brains.
Still not that big a problem. You just have to make more tests.
You don't say "There might be an error so it's ALL wrong".
Hey, can I apply that criteria to the Bible?
AS> The theist gets around it thus; we are not committed to the view that
AS> reason is a comparatively recent process molded by a process of
AS> selection which can only select for the biologically useful. For the
AS> theist, reason--the reason of God--is older than Nature, and from it
AS> the orderliness of Nature, with is the only thing that allows him to
AS> know her,
AS> is derived. The human mind in the act of knowing in the sense of
AS> making inferences without direct observation is illuminated by the
AS> Divine Reason.
AS> It is set free...in the measure required by each being's
AS> intellect--from the huge nexus of nonrational causation. The act of
AS> knowing that some things must be truth, not by remembering the past
or
AS> directly observing, is in a sense supernatural...in that it reaches
AS> beyond the known chain of causation to a sphere where things can be
AS> determined if they are actually true, rather than apparently, or do
AS> purely from experience. It is a reflection of the prime reason which
AS> created the laws of nature.
AS> I don't think so. The same point has been made by others.
The theist is living in a dream world, if the above is any indication.
There isn't a rational statement in the whole paragraph. Total BS
and wishful thinking.
RH> So, you followed someone else down the wrong path.
AS> Wouldn't be the first time.
Bet it won't be the last, eh?
... I'd rather ride the Wave than wallow in QWKsand!
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:37:00
EID:03a5 223a9ca0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> At first, she went alone. Later, at the request of my father, I went
RH> for a year "to give it a chance". That ended one Sunday when she was
RH> raising hell with everyone for being too slow.
AS> What, for getting ready for church?
Yes. The kids didn't want to go and were dragging their feet. She was
ranting and raving at them, making everyone mad and I said "That's it"
and nobody went.
RH> and now is a respected member of another congregation. He married
RH> the other woman once his wife killed herself.
AS> Sounds like a real charmer, all right. (Sarcasm mode on...)
Actually, he was/is all you would have wanted in an elder until
then. But once the gonads took over, everything changed.
AS> I'm with, but not every church would I be pleased at. And Jesus also
AS> shared your distaste for religious hypocrites.
Yep. Me and Jesus; what a pair!
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!" - Bart Simpson
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:55:00
EID:e44d 223a9ee0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Robert Curry <=-
AS> Yes, sins like murder, thievery, adultery, cruelty. I submit
AS> indluging in such seem to have real consequences in THIS world, and
AS> have for many cultures. (By adultery I mean the deliberate deception
AS> of one's spouse while sleeping with another. I'm not addressing open
AS> marriages, where the spouse is fully aware and perhaps even approves.)
Uh...Al, adultery is still a sin in the eyes of your God, consent
or not.
... We must believe in free will. We have no choice.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:07:00
EID:e8a7 223aa0e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> with Herod having the ear of Claudius? (Didja know they were buddies
AS> before Claudius became Emperor?)
Are you sure it was Claudius?
AS> Could be. No doubt that JEsus' execution was a policitical hot
AS> potato. Which Pilate tried to foist off on Herod. But once it was his
AS> responsibility, it would not be a pleasant report to HIS superior
AS> that he would not do it...especially with Herod and the Sanhedrin both
AS> interested.
Why would Rome give a shit about some Jewish fanatic?
RH> I'll buy the latter. They KNEW Jesus was not dead. He probably died
RH> soon after they got him out and was buried secretly elsewhere.
AS> Wouldn't the disciples notice He looked like death warmed over?
AS> Instead of wanting to be resurrected like Him, they would
AS> probably wnat to call Luke, the physician...
AS> And that means it was definitely not him on the road to Emmaneus. Ten
AS> miles with pierced feet?
No, probably not. Especially since they did not recognise him at the time.
AS> Possible. But they would realize they were using courage and
AS> conviction to, nonetheless, HOAX the entire Jesus movement, perhaps
AS> even the entire coutnry. In other words, no matter their courage,
AS> their conviction would be to be as phoney as a three-dollar bill.
Al, when you're serving God, anything is permissable.
... Blue Wave - World Tour - 1997
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:44:00
EID:9390 223b4d80
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
MB> I think people have completely lost sight of the fact that when
MB> the Europeans landed at Plymouth Rock, and for at least 300 years
MB> afterward, the Amerinds were still in the STONE AGE!
Well, yes, but you see, they were more spiritually advanced....
... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: INTO MY PARLOR
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:48:00
EID:dd43 223b4e00
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> Don't either of you have anything better to do than waste bandwidth
RH> this way?
JB> You would prefer Al to be allowed to post blithely away, thinking that
JB> every word he types is being taken as the TRUTH and not to be
JB> disputed?
?? You must have missed the point of my post; I was complaining
about that very fact.
JB> This is a personal failing of Al. He can't (and won't) see where
JB> anything outside *his* experience is valid.
A common human failing, unfortunately.
JB> And sometimes, the only way to get through to him is with a 2x4.
As with training a mule. First, you have to get their attention....
... I've got a mind like a... a... what's that thing called?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: WHY DON'T WE SEE GOD
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:51:00
EID:be56 223b4e60
-=> Quoting Jan Deboer to Roger Hunter <=-
JD> It's YOUR bible that YOU claim to believe, so YOU explain the
JD> contradiction!
ME?? ROFL!
No, I just misunderstood your position. I thought YOU were the
fundy!
JD> Has religion so rotted your brain that your only response is to babble
JD> another quotation that only reinforces the contradiction??
No, that's what I was TRYING to do.
... Not tonight, dear. I have a modem.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: COLORADO AGAIN...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:56:00
EID:3018 223b4f00
-=> Quoting Jan Deboer to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> ... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
JD> Neat! I'm stealing that one!
Be my guest; that's how I got it!
... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 27 Jan 97 10:52:00
EID:452f 223b5680
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to David Worrell <=-
DW> I suspect you'll have to try harder than that. "Fat women are good
DW> beasts of burden," would likely be a good start.
JB> Really? How you gonna get a fat woman moving if she don't wanna go?
Ex-Lax?
... What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Look Who is Insulted?
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:12:00
EID:0e5f 223a9180
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32ed1cc2
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, David Worrell cast Look Who is Insulted? at Sue
Armstrong .. and all hell broke loose.
DW>> The high here Tuesday is supposed to be in the low 60's. Nyah! :)
SA> Well, it's in the low 40s today; guess I can't complain after the
SA> week or so's worth of -30.
SA> Want a house guest or two until spring? :)
DW> Sorry. The neighbors would lynch me for bringing a communist into the
DW> neighborhood. :)
Aw, we don't really look all that different from the rest of you.
The devil-horns are easily concealable.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Now bring us. . . A SHRUBBERY!
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Artificial Life
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:12:01
EID:ef06 223a9180
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32ed1cc3
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Dan Ceppa cast Artificial Life at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Anyway, it's still a good sci-fi story base. Recently saw a movie
SA> called "Screamers", about just this subject. It seems that two
DC> Just saw that the other week, too.
Heh.
SA> The movie goes on from there, but you're best off seeing it for
SA> yourselves, and I'll not spoil it for those wishing to rent it.
DC> I hate when people do that. I don't mind if they say some
DC> generalities, even about the ending, n.g., good, bad or
DC> indifferent. This one, BTW, I thought was very good.
Mm. Had to catch myself as I was typing; it's way too good a movie
to spoil.
SA> horror - the horror is in the concepts presented and not in the
SA> graphic display of blood and guts.
DC> The political aspects of it were pretty good as well.
Indeed.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Support your local tracking dog - - GET LOST!
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:14:02
EID:2599 223a91c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32ed1cc4
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, David Worrell cast False Christian Scum at Sue Armstrong
.. and all hell broke loose.
SA> I don't know much about military aircraft, but I recently saw
SA> "Broken Arrow" and something about putting a B-2 in "stealth mode"
SA> just seems fundamentally wrong somehow. Click a button and it
SA> magically disappears from radar. Nope, doesn't seem right.
DW> That's because it isn't right. "Stealth" is not a "mode" that can be
DW> turned on and off. It is a function of the shape of the airframe, the
DW> radar-aborbent paint, and several other factors.
Thought so. The whole thing looked so SILLY. But then, I guess one
shouldn't expect much else from a John Woo film.
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... Jesus loves you. But then again, so does Barney.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Dawkins
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:34:03
EID:6382 223a9440
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32ed1cc5
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, David Worrell cast Dawkins at All .. and all hell
broke loose.
DW> I finally broke down and bought a copy of _The Blind Watchmaker_, by
DW> Richard Dawkins. I would like to take this opportunity to sugg... to
DW> demand that the rest of you who have yet to read this book go out and
DW> buy a copy right the fuck now. Don't even try farting around with a
DW> library copy.
DW> You'll thank me.
Read it, liked it, but couldn't find a copy to buy. I did, however,
find a version of his programme available for download on a local
BBS; it's a fun programme to play with, though one must keep in mind
that it's artificial selection.
I _did_ have a programme for a while that was more complex, but it
was back when I only had the 286, and I seem to have deleted it in
despair. And I think the board I got it from went down. :(
--Wolfie
"HEY! No step on flowers, stupid ape!"
-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto
... May the yuletide log slip from the fire and burn your house down.
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:25:22
EID:7082 223c0320
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32ec1e52
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ed4802
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DC>> Why did your godling have to pray to his daddy? If they
DC>> were one, the tall tale that he did is is completely meaningless.
JF> What He was doing was, to make a comparison, being the right hand
JF> telling the left hand what it's doing. Surely your body parts don't
JF> act on their own impulses? They're coordinated.
I think you're down for the count. According to the NT in
the garden at Gethsemone, he not only was consciously praying,
but like most of us, he got no answer.
You're lost, aren't you? Other fundies have come up with
better excuses than you even though they've still been exposed.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:33:12
EID:7082 223c0420
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32ec1fb8
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ed4a35
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DC>> That was because of the real founder of your beliefs: Saul.
JF> Where's your proof/evidence that Saul was the founder? So far you
JF> haven't brought a single shred to the table. More hypocrisy on your
JF> part, I see.
I imagine your Lutheran priest has some education in theology. Why
don't you ask him/her?
You've made a huge mistake in underestimating the knowledge of
your religion that people around here have. You've been posting
to some folks who are ordained ministers. You not only don't know
to whom you're broadcasting, you don't even have a glimmer of
how much you don't know. You're a sandbox level rookie.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Coward!
|Date: 28 Jan 97 00:40:46
EID:6de0 223c0500
MSGID: 1:229/622 32ed4d3f
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10440
DH>>>>> "atheism /n. the theory or belief that God[sic]
DH>>>>> does not exist."
[...]
DR> How utterly astonishing. Websters' I would expect to
DR> be wrong, but not Oxford's English.
DR> I went and looked it up. The Oxford English Dictionary
DR> (OED) defines "atheist" as "One who denies the existance
DR> of god or gods. Previous: Deist. a'theism. One who denies
DR> the existance of god or gods." (Why it was redundant I do
DR> not know).
DR> Therefore you must have a cheap, off-brand OED.
I'm using my hand-held "Concise Oxford Dictionary, New Edition"
(1993). I find I have to replace them every 30 years; the duct
tape wouldn't hold my '63 together any more. The title page
says, "Eighth Edition (c) 1990."
I'm utterly shocked by the definition in mine. I mean, such a
gross error in the OED. What's left to believe in? I think for
kicks I'll write them. BTW, in mine the "God" is capitalized.
I wonder if it's the same committee that does the dictionary
that did the KJV.
--- FleetStreet 1.18+
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle, ON, Canada (1:229/622)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: All
|Sub: I think Worrell lost something (like his integrity)
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:49:03
EID:167a 223b9620
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 c56abc4b
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: HOLYSMOKE
Date: 27 Jan 97 05:45:00 Public
From: David X. Worrell
To: Marilyn Burge
Subject: final exam
========================================================================
26 Jan 97 09:08, Marilyn Burge wrote to Al Schroeder:
MB> that the message I sent were sent privately in order to help
MB> him avoid embarrassment.
Really? Not because you were replying to netmail, then?
That's goddamned hilarious, Marilyn.
MB> It was his inability to see that he
MB> was embarrassing himself that was self-destructive.
There's really no need to dance so at this point, Marilyn. You've already
shown
that I pressed your buttons without even trying.
---
+ Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
... Stupidometer: ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ±± (98)
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:30:55
EID:ec42 223b9bc0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 4cfb993f
REPLY: 1:3603/210 26e20895
On (24 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to AL SCHROEDER...
RC> with: Lynda Bustilloz
AS> Sometimes my children get hurt, also. It is not my will, and the
AS> hurt's still there. Often from something THEY decided to do.
AS> But they don't turn on me and demand, "How could you let me go
AS> out and hurt myself!"
RC> What do you think would be the apropriate response to you if you just
RC> stood there watching as one of your children tied another one down,
RC> then proceeded (as you did nothing but stand by silently to watch) to
RC> cut the other child's tongue out?
RC> Honestly, Al. Is it just that you reserve being an accessory before
RC> the fact "justifiable" for your god? Or do you think that your child,
RC> after being tortured as you stand by and watch, should love you all
RC> the more for your tender consideration of the torturer's "free will?"
What do you expect him to do? short-circuit the poor dear's
free will?
... = Al Schroeder born that way.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: All
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:39:42
EID:7006 223b9ce0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 d00645b7
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 24 Dec 96 13:28:15 Private
From: David Worrell (123/67)
To: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
... 666.1 - Bugfix of the beast.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: All
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:40:05
EID:7006 223b9d00
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 5b70593f
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 25 Dec 96 08:53:45 Private
From: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
To: David Worrell (123/67)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On (24 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DW> On , you wrote me:
MB> Without knowing a great deal more about bone density,
MB> muscle-to-fat ratio, etc., it is impossible for you to make
MB> a judgment about her weight.
MB> My doctor would think he had just died and gone to heaven
MB> if I could get down to 230 and stay there with ease, and
MB> I'm 6'1".
DW> My apologies if my remarks offended you. I'm just baiting pagans.
No apologies necessary. I thought I was pointing out to you
that a pagan's child's weight has nothing whatsoever to do
with the religious beliefs of the pagan. Have you no specific
objections to the pagan point of view on which to focus, or
are you merely left with baiting the pagan for something that
has nothing to do with religion? It seems to me that it would
be a bit more on-topic if you focused on the individual's
religion, and left personal matters alone -- especially when
those personal matters are something about which the pagan can
do nothing.
... I'm having a hard time swallowing this. Can I have a dogma bag?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: All
|Sub: For your info...
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:41:05
EID:7006 223b9d20
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 ecf4bca6
========================================================================
Forwarded here by Marilyn Burge (1:105/302.666)
========================================================================
Area: NETMAIL
Date: 30 Dec 96 07:15:09 Private
From: Marilyn Burge (105/40)
To: David Worrell (123/67)
Subject: My Summer Weekend
========================================================================
On (30 Dec 96) David Worrell wrote to Marilyn Burge...
DW> Thursday December 26 1996 20:31, Marilyn Burge wrote to David Worrell:
MB> I just hate to see people suffer for something they are born with.
MB> I see little difference in what you're doing and taunting somebody
MB> for being born with one leg.
DW> Is the person in question here, Marilyn? No, but her parents are.
Parents are always defensive about their children. It goes
with the territory. I don't understand what in the world
makes you get a charge out of attacking people's most
vulnerable areas. You are sick.
As for not saying anything about what you did to Brawley, the
reason is far more apparent than you think: I rarely read
either your posts or Brawley's, in fact, I NEVER read Brawley's.
so I didn't know what was going on until it was about over.
When I see something I know to be deliberately hurtful with no
apparent good deriving from it, I say something, just as I have
done in this case. All that is needed for evil to prevail is
for good men to say nothing. And, what you are doing (and did
to Brawley) is evil.
... Anyone can hate. It costs to love.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/302.666)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:03:09
EID:96e6 223b9860
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 10d348e9
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ea41f9
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from David Worrell to Katherine Wintersnight:
KW> It has not yet been determined if David is the God of Good Sex or the
KW> God of Bad Sex.
DW> Is there really such a thing as bad sex? I've never had it. :)
(insert Jabba-the Hutt laughter here.)
Well, maybe not during. But there's some mighty bad waking up the
next morning with your arms around a strange commode; a vague
recall of meeting someone the previous night who had a Pinto and a
1/2 gallon of cheap gin. A peek around the bathroom reveals nothing
about her. Just a nit-comb laying on the edge of the sink.
Now it's time to get re-aquainted with what you drank last night,
before you schlep on down to Payless for your very own nit-comb.
It may not be bad sex per se, but...
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:30:47
EID:b6aa 223b9bc0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 07d03257
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7D9F16
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Judith Bandsma to Ed Mills:
EM> Yeah. It's kind of funny how that term came to refer to `doing it
EM> from the front.' What missionaries actually do to emergent
JB> No, Ed. Missionary position is with the HUSBAND on top.
JB> (think about it a minute)
(insert "tink...POP!" sound of Beavis & Butthead
mental lightbulb here.)
With the husband on top as opposed to...?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: ALL
|Sub: Whoops!
|Date: 27 Jan 97 19:53:57
EID:50c3 223b9ea0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 7e0d984e
EM> George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.
GM> That's the best news I've heard since I've been posting to this
GM> conference, Ed. It makes all the abuse worthwhile.
GM> Hang in there and persevere - there *is* a reward ahead for all of us
GM> who believe in the shed blood of Jesus.
GM> And please don't let all the mockers in this conference weaken your
GM> resolve to serve the Lord.
GM> Jesus loves us brother.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR SALE CHEAP:
Small, flat-bottomed aluminum boat with electric
motor and trailer. Must sell - newly acquired phobia
prohibits further pursuit of hobby.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Christian And Atheist
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:12:43
EID:226d 223ba180
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a2ff15b0
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7B1F4A
23 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Judith Bandsma to Ed Mills:
EM> We got our Prewett, you got your Appleton. :)
JB> Yeah, but we only get Prewett about 3-4 months out of the year.
JB> Appleton never even seems to sleep.
Prewett will come back?
Oh, frabjous day!
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: prayer
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:14:15
EID:4fbe 223ba1c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a2377210
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32EA9ACE
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Ronald Vass to Ed Mills:
EM> MH> Yeah, there's less uncertainty, more comfort, associated with
EM> MH> religious belief, as well as less likelihood of drug abuse or other
EM> MH> self-destructive behaviors.
EM> LOL. Yes, the various forms of escapism are oftentimes quite
EM> interchangeable, aren't they? ;)
RV> Sure........join the Rice brothers in sucking up to Hardy. What are
RV> u'll trying to do, make Al feel left out in left field.
RV>
I don't like to pack too much propellant into my sarcasm. Causes
overpenetration. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:26:20
EID:5dc9 223ba340
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 c203b252
REPLY: 1:358/1 65f41f76
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Quentin Fai to Ed Mills:
EM> What the fook is a "'Fropstick?"
QF> It's a cigarette made with the herb Habazafropzipulops, which only
QF> grows on the droppings and graves of Yetis and Tibetan holy men - what
QF> "Bob" smokes in his pipe.
Bob Dobbs?
I keep seeing that face popping up here & there.
What is that all about?
(pardon my iggnerinse.)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Phallus Sees!
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:30:53
EID:627d 223ba3c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ad013a24
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e8b103
Jd> "I took an aspirin and prayed to God, and my headache
Jd> disappeared. So God cured me of the headache."
Jd> This is known as a false cause fallacy.
EM> I thought it was called homeopathic medicine.
Jd> Choked on my coffee....cough, splutter...
Blame Dr. Dean Edell for that one.
I've been listening to his S.F.-based radio show, and have thus
acquired a rudimentary education about so-called "alternative
medicine."
Do the Quadro-Tracker people make a model that detects junk
science?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Steve Hayes
|Sub: Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:56:48
EID:7aa3 223ba700
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 517d5541
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 32e4d948
21 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Steve Hayes to Ed Mills:
EM> Sorghum is actually a mixture of meconium and corn syrup.
EM> Mostly meconium.
SH> Well, maybe the wrong term... I was talking about mabela.
My dictionary no got mabela.
?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ed Mills
|To: ALL
|Sub: What the..?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 20:57:28
EID:4634 223ba720
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 6045cd04
This evening I see, on ye olde idiote tube, what appears to be
Alice Cooper schmoozing with Pat Boone, who is wearing a kind of
Nick Barclay-on-PCP drag. I hear some murmur of a heavy-metal
tour-de-force by Mr. Boone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR SALE CHEAP:
26" Sony stereo TV.
Miscellaneous hifi equipment: Amps, CD player,
subwoofer/satellites, etc.
Must sell NOW.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: FAT PEOPLE
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:11:19
EID:a23a 223ba960
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 de46e27d
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 239196c6
MB> ... = Al Schroeder being condescending to a dyslexic.
That is one esoteric tagline.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Brawley's Bait Shop
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:13:46
EID:fcd8 223ba9a0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 fa3b41b4
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marty Leipzig to Ed Mills:
JB> Define "BSE," please?
EM> Bovine something-or-other encephalopathy (mad cow disease).
ML> Bovine spongioforme encephalaisas. Hell, even a bovine-denied
ML> rocknocker knows this...
Now we get the definition of BSE from a BDR.
Is this steaklessness for perpetuity?
I found out that I could maybe eventually stop taking Lotensin for
astronomical blood pressure if I gave up animal grease, caffeine and
salt.
While I'm at it, I might as well go to the vet and get neutered.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: Walking on water
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:21:28
EID:3943 223baaa0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f5bc444b
25 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marty Leipzig to Ed Mills:
EM> It wasn't Dutch? It sure sounded like it.
ML> EM>
EM> What's that smell? F-16 exhaust fumes again?
ML> MiG-31 Foxbat on full-stick afterburner, more like.
It's all the same singed hair to me.
Think I'll get a crew-cut.
edweird
... SCRIPTURES-true holy writings, as opposed to falsehoods of all other
faiths
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marty Leipzig
|Sub: kablooey
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:24:16
EID:ab96 223bab00
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 8251369c
26 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marty Leipzig to Ed Mills:
ML> But, of course, your question needs to be refined a bit; as
ML> there are at least a dozen different types of volcanic
ML> eruptions. Some are large and relatively quiet, others are more
ML> vociferous (Krakatoa was probably the loudest sound ever
ML> produced [worse than 12" from the main tower at a Pink Floyd
ML> concert]). Size? How defined? Number killed? Santorini wins,
ML> hands down. Volume of effusives? The Deccan Traps have no peer
ML> in the rock record.
I think the model I saw was a literal representation of physical
size, in terms of sheer vertical blast and discharge.
Sounds like Krakatoa.
What about Mazama? I heard that was a big mother, too.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: False Christian Scum
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:29:36
EID:46e3 223baba0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 07b052ec
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ec3c11
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from David Worrell to Ed Mills:
DW> SA>> I don't know much about military aircraft, but I recently saw
DW> SA>> "Broken Arrow" and something about putting a B-2 in "stealth
DW> SA>> mode" just seems fundamentally wrong somehow. Click a button
DW> and SA>> it magically disappears from radar. Nope, doesn't seem
DW> right.
EM> Sure it's right. Where have you been? The Romulans invented it clear
EM> back in the late sixties. True, it wasn't until quite a few years
EM> later that our own Federation got their mitts on a cloakable bird of
EM> prey, but thank goodness it happened before Ronnie took office.
EM> Otherwise his brilliant defense plan might have been the subject of
EM> widespread mockery instead of the shining success that it was.
DW>
DW> Damn, I missed your posts.
Sick Fucks need appreciation as much as anyone! Gracias.
DW> If you leave us again, I'll be forced to send my black helicopters
DW> after you.
Won't do you any good. I live in a Stealth Hovel with Frozen
Sewer Camouflage and Modular Heatless I.R. Invisibility .
DW> David Worrell
DW> Field Marshal, New World Order Expeditionary Force
Edweird
Janitor, John Birch Society
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 27 Jan 97 21:49:47
EID:3c71 223bae20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 3346381e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32ec3f83
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from David Worrell to Ed Mills:
EM> I was horrified to see the following sign at Freddie's the other
EM> day: "You are old enough to buy alcoholic beverages if you were
EM> born on or before this day in 1976."
DW> Depressing, ain't it?
DW> The cigarette signs are even worse.
Today I saw a girl smoking at a bus stop - from the looks of her,
she was born right about the time I quit smoking.
Now there'll undoubtedly be some catcalls from someone REALLY old.
I hope.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ?
|Date: 27 Jan 97 09:42:21
EID:1d66 223b4d40
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2ecc3ed0
REPLY: 1:3603/210 26c448c4
Hello ROBERT!
ROBERT CURRY wrote in a message to MIMI MILSTEIN:
MM> Vass made a goof under the subject heading "? SOUL ?"
MM> I remarked he sounded like a vicious jerk.
RC> You used the phrase "naked cruelty," as a matter of fact.
MM> He replied with a longwinded blabber where among other stuff
MM> he asked me "if I could be honest, look into myself, and find
MM> the same ability". I gave him a sample. He didn't like it.
MM> Curry jumped out of the swamp, took the sample at face value,
MM> forgot the beginning of the thread,
You just proved my point - you DID forget the beginning of
the thread. I replied with exactly *1* line to Voss:
MM> You are a vicious jerk, aren't you?
THAT was what I replied to the initial msg on one of the latter
days of December. On Jan-02-97 Voss came back and started the
whole melee.
Get your facts straight before you start playing the great
defender. If you can't differentiate between a genuine opinion
and a requested sample of "honesty without empathy" it would
be easier to keep quiet.
RC> Good for a laugh or three.
I am afraid the laughs are on you.
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Hi Ed
|Date: 27 Jan 97 10:59:13
EID:320a 223b5760
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2ecc3ed1
Hello Ed!
George Mooth wrote in a message to Ed Mills:
EM> GEORGE! WAKE UP!
EM> George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.
GM> That's the best news I've heard since I've been posting to
GM> this conference, Ed. It makes all the abuse worthwhile.
EM> Please talk to me.
GM> Hang in there and persevere - there *is* a reward ahead for
GM> all of us who believe in the shed blood of Jesus.
Congratulation Edweird - it worked :-)))
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: The Purdah - don't even TRY to knock... Randbg, SA (5:7107/21)
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|From: Mimi Milstein
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Alignment List 01/
|Date: 27 Jan 97 11:55:50
EID:3520 223b5ee0
MSGID: 5:7107/21.0 2ecde580
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f553d35f
Hello Katherine!
Katherine Wintersnight wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
MM>Whatever happens - thanks for your efforts. It has been
MM>interesting (and enlightening) to see peoples responses.
KW> I'm going to be spending the next few days adding in the
KW> people who haven't given me an entry . This is going to
KW> be the fun part.
Excellent :-))) I will be looking forward to a treat
... Greetings from Mimi
--- timEd 1.01
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: -- 1/2
|Date: 26 Jan 97 07:38:27
EID:ce4e 223a3cc0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7ccb
RV> *-* An answer isn't needed, this isn't the area for it *-*
RV> *-* Indicated [test 1] can through. and i will know it went out
RV> *-* this local is getting bad for any in out mail and like i said *-*
RV> *-* this isn't a good area for this shit *-*
RV> Subj: Re: Al S.; Warring Christanic
I too wish there was a better place to go into this, that you had email
capacity, and I don't use a point. Is netmail between BBSes, then, quite
dead? Hmmm. Let me try something. I'll check with a friend who runs a
local BBS.
And of course, I will respect your wish not to go into it here.
Of course, we CAN use snailmail. I don't have your address, although
mine is 6700 Cabot Dr. Apt. J3, Nashville, TN 37209.
... I'm a Marxist with a Groucho attitude.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christanic
|Date: 26 Jan 97 07:49:06
EID:061c 223a3e20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7ccc
DR> AS Don't dance to Curry's tune, Ron. Look at what I actually said,
DR> and how AS I actually answered. That's exactly the sort of reaction
he
DR> WANTED from AS someone. Don't be his patsy. Read what I said.
DR> I love it. :)
Thanks.
... All truths change, except for this one.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AL'S DELIBERATE DELUS
|Date: 26 Jan 97 07:57:13
EID:3e3e 223a3f20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7ccd
AS> You betcha.
AS> I think people matter, Roger. I think people, for all the stupidity,
AS> anger, hate, they do...very much matter. If I follow that to its
AS> logical conclusion, the Holocaust doesn't matter. They would have all
AS> been dead in
AS> a few decades anyway. Existential despair is exactly that, for me.
AS> And finding joy in it is not for me.
RH> Oh, I will agree that people (living people) matter, very much. But
RH> that has no bearing on the argument. We ARE dust, and to dust we will
RH> return. That much, your Book has right. It's what we do in between
RH> that matters.
As you say.
RH> But why is eventual dissolution a source of despair for you? WHY do
RH> you need eternal life to make life worthwhile?
A belief in an eternal life for a personality is NOT needed to live a
joyful life, or even a religious life. (Just ask the Sadduccees). But I
DO
find sad that all the striving of mankind, over the eons, must be for
nothing. Eventually the sun will die, the stars will wink out, and noone
will be alive to even remember that humanity ever existed. So in the long
run...the VERY long run...all of mankind's accomplishments, all that we
have striven to improve and to work for...all the beautiful works of
fiction, all the great art works, all the people who have lived and
died...will, in the long run, make no impact on the universe. They will
fade and be forgotten, and our civilization will fade and be forgotten,
and any other civilization will fade and be forgotten...Tipler's "Omega
Point" theories seem to me more wishful thinking than a real possibility,
although of course they are interesting. And in the very long run, all of
mankind's strivings will have no more impact on the universe than a
butterfly passing by.
RH> That's not the atheist position, Al. You know better than that.
AS> Nyaaahhh. But it's close to FRED's.
RH> Yes, sorry. Someone else made that point too.
Don't worry about it.
... A new game-Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego's luggage?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: AL'S GOD OF LOVE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 08:00:58
EID:4769 223a4000
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cce
AS> No. I'm saying that God will not rape anything...including your free
AS> will or your mind...even to stop you from doing anything.
RH> God is the Great Scorekeeper. He does not interfere, He just waits,
RH> and chuckles, knowing He'll get you eventually.
RH> Sick, Al.
Y'know, sometimes I think atheists, quite frankly, would PREFER the OT
God, who appears as a pillar of fire at night, who parts the Red Sea, who
hits people with leprosy for questioning their leader. They would prefer
a
powerful but rather heavy-handed God to one who sits back, and hands us
the key to Paradise, points out the door, and waits for us to use the key
ourselves.
... When in doubt, use more thermite.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: RE: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Jan 97 17:48:10
EID:7095 223a8e00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7ccf
AS> I suggest you not try to stretch the definition until it becomes
AS> unrecognizable. We have a unique situation here, conception without
AS> copulation. Rape is forced copulation. To call it rape is WRONG.
BB> Al, the key word here is consent. If I'm remembering the Bible
BB> correctly, Mary had no CHOICE in the matter. When Gabriel came to her,
BB> it was to tell her she was pregnant.
And sings a hymn of praise to the Lord. Now, it MAY be that she was
frightened, and felt she had to, and felt trapped, etc. But it may have
been a genuine hymn of joy for being able to bear the Messiah. Either is
possible. And since the only actions we see from her indicate joy at it,
I
don't see any reason to suppose it isn't genuine.
If someone gives you what you've been wanting...remember we are dealing
with an omniscient being who knew Mary's innermost thoughts...then why
should we look for anything further?
... We must believe in free will - we have no choice.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:01:52
EID:aeec 223a9020
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd0
AS> Ahhhhh, I see. Then if Barb wakes up in the middle of night, and
AS> wakes me up, without saying a word and has her way with me...I need
to
RH> Yeah, right! How many times has THAT happened?
Well...once in the past month...Eric fell asleep on our bed, and rather
than move him, I slept on the couch. I was woken up about 3 AM VERY
pleasantly...and not a word was exchanged until afterwards.
But of course, I'm not going to pretend that happens often...or that she
wasn't dealing with a VERY known quantity. Very different from the above.
AS> call a rape hotline for the abuse she has given me?
AS> Does not the fact that it was AGREEABLE to me count?
RH> It's the same as saying it's impossible to rape a boy/man
RH> because they always enjoy it.
Well, that's certainly true.
AS> And if so, why doesn't it count with Mary?
RH> Do you propose that she had the nerve to either refuse or
RH> complain afterward?
As far as I can tell, she never had a CHANCE to refuse. She was preggars
before she knew it. Which could have been a source of horror, but she sang
a hymn of praise. No one made her do that, certainly not God.
RH> I don't -think- so, Al.
If she had been nursing bitterness about it, she wouldn't have sung a hymn
of praise afterwards. It was not expected, required, extorted. It seems
to
be genuine joy. Unless we have evidence to the contrary...and I see
none...I think we should take that as an indication.
... Tree falls and hits Milli Vanilli: Someone else screams.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:07:35
EID:5d15 223a90e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd1
AS> Most historians would agree with the above (a majority of
AS> historians, last survey I looked at, thought Jesus was a
AS> historical figure) save that they would not grant the
AS> miracles as a priori absurd, which is an assumption I find
AS> risky, when we are dealing with what the ruler of the
AS> universe and framer of the laws of nature can or can't do.
MB> But you're doing the same thing. You're assuming that he was an
MB> incarnated ruler of the universe, which is even more risky, since
MB> there is absolutely no independent evidence that claim is true.
Well, doubtless you will disagree, but I am aware of the many claims by
others to be gods. I think His is better buttressed than the others.
That much of the evidence, by being included in the NT, is automatically
discounted...even though it is a collection of different documents from
different sources.
... I am, therefore I think, I think...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 27 Jan 97 18:34:47
EID:8d4f 223b9440
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd2
AS> He thinks the PARABLES reflect true events? I must have missed that.
DC> He takes all of the bible literaly. At least the parts that
DC> have small words so he can read it.
Oh-kay...
DC> Now, which parts of the bible are actually based on fact. Let's
DC> do this one myth at a time, though.
AS> I think most of the events that happened to Jesus at least from
DC> 'Most'? As compared with 'all'? Seems like you don't think all
DC> of the NT is factual, either.
I have questions about the census, of course. Personally, I think if it
was true, it was a rumor that swept Palestine that was without basis.
Unsure about the Star of Bethlehem. But I'm fence-sitting on it. We do a
lot of absolute "yeses" and "nos" on very little info.
AS> adulthood on as described in the Bible, really happened (with a slight
AS> quibbling on the dead walking after Jesus' death, the non-Jesus dead,
DC> Slight?
Remember, despite the sometimes seeming rationality of my answers, I am
basically a nutcase who thinks a dead man was God incarnate and came back
to life. So if I accept one dead man rising, I can't just throw off the
others as a priori impossible. But obviously if there were a LOT of dead
walking around (a la a George Romero movie) it would be recorded
somewhere. So I conclude, IF it was not some sort of fable or metaphor,
it
was limited to a very small number.
AS> which, if it happened, happened in small numbers, say a dozen.) and
DC> Make it 6 1/2 and call it a half-baked dozen.
Could be.
AS> accounts in Acts and in Paul's letters. Yes, there are some
AS> differences in the various Gospels on minor points, or between Acts
AS> and Paul, but nothing I feel major or irreconcilable. Having no
DC> Of course you don't. You can't do otherwise and retain your
DC> faith. Yet, it's those "minor" differences that point out
DC> the fact that the events do not coincide.
Interestingly, one of the Bibles I have at home is the NARRATED BIBLE
which tries to put the whole Bible in chronological order, using the NIV
translation. Their reconstruction of what happened in which order in
Jesus' life is fascinating, even if some of it must necessarily be
guesswork. But they do a credible job of stitching the four accounts of
Jesus' life together.
AS> investigation...see if we have multiple accounts of the events, by
AS> people who lived fairly close to the time, and seeing where they
DC> You have none that were written by an supposed eyewitness.
Well...we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I think John's gospel
and 1 John were written by John, the apostle.
AS> was tried by the Sanhedrin, and was killed under Pilate, and was dead
AS> and buried, and three out of the four have a Resurrection account, and
AS> the other implies one is coming, but was cut off before it was shown.
DC> That one would be the most believable, based on some of the
DC> Judaic beliefs in an afterlife.
Well...it was cut off at the empty tomb.
AS> We have letters by other writers of the time (Paul, James, Peter that
AS> a general belief in same was current by the mid-fifties. We have
DC> Much of which was redacted as well as forged.
We don't know that, though.
AS> historians, last survey I looked at, thought Jesus was a historical
AS> figure) save that they would not grant the miracles as a priori
DC> Which does nothing to support your claim that he was a godling.
But my point has always been...if you say, eliminate all the miracles
about Jesus, and then look at what's left, it makes no sense. The
disciples endure whipping, imprisonment, and possible death for spreading
what they have to know is a lie.
AS> absurd, which is an assumption I find risky, when we are dealing with
AS> what the ruler of the universe and framer of the laws of nature can
or
DC> What's there to risk? Not using the brain your 'god' gave you? That
DC> would be the bigger affront.
I think I am. Including not dismissing a possibility.
... I met some crazy people. They made me their leader...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ASK AND YE SHALL RECE
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:36:39
EID:5cf8 223a9480
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd3
AS> I might even suggest that perhaps if I prayed without doubt, Jamie
AS> and Eric might be cured, miraculously. But no one is free of doubts,
AS>Lynda.
RH>
RH> Oh, I see. God promises to answer prayers but puts in a catch phrase
RH> which cannot be met.
RH> Is that REALLY what you mean, Al?
Nope. I've had prayers which I THINK were answered...but I'm saying the
sort of miraculous stuff that some here are demanding. And also trying to
reason from what the NT says...
... All I want is a warm bed, a kind word, and UNLIMITED POWER....
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 26 Jan 97 18:46:43
EID:7314 223a95c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd4
AS> This echo gets so odd sometimes...half the people mock me by saying
AS> that Christians should gladly kill their kids and send them to Heaven,
RH> ?? I am not mocking you, Al, far from it. It's a serious question
RH> meant to point out the illogic of your position.
Sorry, Roger, someone ELSE said something in that vain, but a much more
mocking one. I forgot you had said that much more seriously. I was
thinking of the other person.
But since we know nothing of the afterlife except few hints, we don't
know if there is any sort of preperation needed for the afterlife. We
might mess up things by doing it too soon...
And the ones we kill might have a purpose that God intended them to
complete, which we might foil by killing them...
And killing corrupts the KILLER, makes them callous...
And finally, I'm not killing my kids, and that's that!
... Now wait a minute... how do we know you're the REAL Angel of Death?
__
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Bacteria & evolution (c).
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:10:42
EID:fd0d 223a9940
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd5
LA> Are you again saying that God personally created all new
LA> species (or kinds) and that is why we do not find any
LA> transitional fossils?
Nope. I believe in punctuated evolution, which is why we find a lesser
number...but still some...transitional fossils.
LA> "Evidence from the fossil record now points overwhelmingly
LA> away from the classical Darwinism which most Americans
LA> learned in High School; that new species evolve out of
LA> existing ones by the gradual accumulation of small changes,
LA> each of which helps the organism survive and compete in the
LA> environment."
LA> (Newsweek, 3/11/80, p. 54)
AS> And then goes on to mention "punctuated evolution", if
AS> you had bothered to read the rest.
LA> You mean you did NOT see where it said;
LA> "The iron law of Darwinism - that each new species
LA> represents an advance in fitness over its predecessor -
LA> seems to have been breached. . . ."
LA> "Some scientists are still fighting a rearguard action on
LA> behalf of Darwinism. A few paleontologists maintain that
LA> fossils actually do show gradual evolution over time. Even
LA> if fossils don't change, argues Tom Schopf of the
LA> University of Chicago, the organisms might have been
LA> evolving.. . ."
LA> "It is no wonder that scientists part reluctantly with
LA> Darwin. His theory of natural selection was beautiful in
LA> its simplicity, and it has served well for over a century.
LA> To tamper with it is to raise a host of questions for which
LA> there are no answers. The new theory also raises the
LA> troubling question of whether man himself is less a product
LA> of a billion years of competition than a quantum leap into
LA> the dark - just another hopeful monster whose star was more
LA> benevolent than most."
LA> ("Is Man a Subtle Accident", NEWSWEEK, 3/11/1980, Jerry
LA> Adler with John Carey in Chicago. p.54 ff.)
LA> So Newsweek did NOT hail Punctuated Equilibria as the new
LA> wonder theory that solved all the problems, but rather it
LA> suggested that it too was full of problems for which there
LA> are no answers.
As I said above...went on to mention punctuated evolution.
LA> Your evolutionary beliefs seem more confused than
LA> anything as is your claims to believe in a Creator God. It
LA> seems to me that you are just another victim of the
LA> indoctrination that takes place instead of education in our
LA> schools and colleges.
Suuuure, I am, Laurie.
LA> Obviously "balanced treatment" is the only proper way to
LA> teach things - specially when the Creation scientists have
LA> been credited, by the evolutionists themselves, with WINNING
LA> all those hundreds of open, public, scientific debates for a
LA> decade against them!
Sure. It's easy to ENTERTAIN the crowds.
... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:16:02
EID:b535 223a9a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd6
AS> Because it doesn't add up. You have a being who cares enough about
AS> intelligent life to create a universe with constants ordered that
AS> way, but
AS> doesn't care enough to do anything to maintain them past that. It's
AS> like building a big complicated machine to make, ohhh, little
AS> statuettes...but not caring if the statuettes fall and shatter at the
AS> end.
RH> How about it's like a farmer who plants grain but could care less
RH> about individual stalks? Better analogy, IMHO.
That's possible, Roger. I can even think of some verses that run that
way...
AS> But that would mean that God only favored the intelligent. I think
AS> intelligence has its place, but I don't want a church only composed
AS> of those with high IQs, a Memsa of Methodists, or something.
RH> Now -THERE'S- a grim image .
Isn't it though?
AS> Because I think the whole reason of existence is for us to learn how
AS> to make moral decisions without being forced to.
RH> Foolish, Al, as long as Hell looms in the background. It only
RH> makes sense under reincarnation.
You may be right.
... The greatest remedy for anger is delay.--Seneca.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 19:23:00
EID:004b 223a9ae0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd7
GT>> That's assuming we'd want to. Why would I or anybody else not
GT>> totally craven want to accept the self-appointed priests of another
GT>> people's god as mental and emotional slavemasters?
AS> Because the answers they get themselves only puts them into mental
and
AS> emtional bondage to themselves. A man or woman wrapped up in themselves
AS> make a very small package. It's fine to have your own spiritual journey,
AS> but if every one starts anew, then they have to painfully redicover
every
AS> step of the way which others have. Why not build on the spiritual
AS> experiences of others?
GT> Perhaps I am building on the spiritual experiences of others -- just
GT> not your 'others'. As I said -- another people's god, NOT my people.
GT> Big difference.
Could very well be, Glen. But since I don't know for sure your tradition,
I can't say...
... I am not as think as people confused I am!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:14:55
EID:316c 223aa1c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd8
AS> The Pope wasn't considered infallible until sometime last
AS> century I believe. Maybe it hadn't kicked in...
MM> Pius IX Giovanni Mastai-Feretti instated that dogma in 1870
MM> during the Vatican I Council.
MM> Also, during his reign the doctrine of The Immaculate
MM> Conception was promulgated (1856).
MM> This long-serving pope (32 years) is a proto-type of a
MM> self-serving politician - starting off as a liberal reformer,
MM> and after few years in office the main preoccupation is
MM> switched to retain his political status.
MM> Looks like this person (in spite of being amiable, witty,
MM> charming, and having no personal enemies) did leave the RC
MM> world with some sets of nifty shackles.
Certainly did. And notice how odd it is that when Catholic power was at
its height, no one even suggested that.
... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 26 Jan 97 20:17:16
EID:381e 223aa220
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cd9
AS> Maybe, Dave. But I don't want Heaven for the perfect, because then
AS> nobody will get in.
MB> Be ye perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.
If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not
in
us.
... Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than are lies.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution 2/2
|Date: 27 Jan 97 04:55:16
EID:9f61 223b26e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cda
AS> Or...
AS> There's a reason He's not responding.
DC> The best reason is that he isn't there.
Well...it's a possibility, but then we have a lot of other stuff to
explain, (i.e., the constants, etc.) another way.
... Excuse me, I have to recharge my flamethrower.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 27 Jan 97 04:58:06
EID:ffdd 223b2740
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cdb
DR> AS George, I'm a believer. I've been terminally bored with what you
DR> have AS spammed us with over the years, but I AM a believer. And I have
DR> a question AS for you.
DR> AS Do you think such an approach will win ANYONE, much less an
DR> unbeliever, AS to your side? Whether you think it is the truth or not,
DR> from Becke's point AS of view, who believes in neither God nor Satan,
DR> your question is as silly AS as her asking you when you will stop being
DR> a slave to Loki? Nor is it AS couched in such a way that would
DR> encourage her to come to you...especially AS since she has a history
of
DR> abuse and neglect by the church she was brought AS up in?
DR> I agree with the essence of what you are saying here, but don't
DR> really understand why you are coming down so hard on this guy. He
DR> seems to be on our side even if a little crass. :)
Because he's been spamming us for years without letup. And just because
someone's a Christian doesn't mean they should be immune from criticisism.
Jesus had his harshest words for the religious hypocrites of HIS day.
... "Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust! **
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Bootstrapping up, up and away
|Date: 27 Jan 97 07:31:13
EID:ad0f 223b3be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ed7cdc
AS> I'll have to consult the Bishop, be back to you on
AS> that... Amazing how the Popes got along for eighteen
AS> hundred years without infallibility.
MM> "Landed gentry" with good armies has been rather
MM> successful in that department - for a longish time :-))
So what else is new? Actually, I think the infallibility doctrine is
a
sign of weakenss, not strength...that they had to reinforce the Pope's
claims against an increasingly fractured Christianity and growing
questions from secular authorities.
MM> BTW, are you happy to know you are my hero? Judith's little
MM> tantrum was touching, wasn't it - even her cherished tradition
MM> of Dutch utterances went up in fumes. I guess the lesson is:
MM> never critique a proud show-and-tell creator - they don't
MM> like it :-))) I have managed to get on the wrong side of
MM> 1 harpy rampant, 1 harpy automaton, a sorehead, a jerk, and
MM> the avatar of an abacus. Not bad for an agnostic, and in
MM> such a short time.
I saw no harpies...maybe a few Harpos, a few Chicos, and a lot of
Grouchos....
Actually, to tell the truth, Mimi, I did not agree with your criticism
of her site...I thought the pictures funny, including and/or especially
mine, and I'm kind of sorry she removed the Hall of Shame that especially
roasted me...on the principle that there's no such thing as bad
publicity. She's now changed it so that you pull the pictures up one
at a time, which speeds the loading considerably,